# How do you afford new trucks?



## FordSuperduty (Nov 28, 2021)

Me and my father have a small concrete business. He had his own business for many years (close to 16 years) up until 2008 when everything went bad. We have been really successful for the last 4 years, we have so much work and could expand but finding reliable and skilled employees is a very hard thing to get.

Anyways, we have a fleet of 2 trucks both 2012s f250 and f350 and we are finding ourselves in need of another truck because we are so busy. I know it sounds stupid but how are you guys affording these new 60 - 70k BASE MODEL trucks. Trying to find a flatbed f350 diesel is minimum of 55k. Just curious if there is some magic spell or something to budgeting these vehicles. Maybe we need to charge more.

With the prices right now its insane, back in the day everything was affordable, we used to have 4 f350s and 2 skid steers and everything has just gone up in price.


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

If you can't afford a truck you're not charging enough.
The other side of that is over spending. I've run across new guys that get their first big job, run out and buy a $90k truck thinking they're rich, it doesn't end well.


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## Bearpau (Jan 8, 2013)

Trucks are extremely overpriced right now. I traded my 2019 f250 4wd 4 door with 95000 miles on it and they gave me more then I paid brand new for it. Traded it for a mb sprinter 2500. 
may want to look at the commercial vehicles if you need a bigger one like international or others. Check the auctions also.


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

FordSuperduty said:


> magic spell or something to budgeting these vehicles.


The magic spell is “ let’s all jump on the covid bandwagon & Jack up prices “. Pass on the higher price to your customers. If not we all suffer


Mike


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

Figure about $250/week when estimating to cover the payment.


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## mrcat (Jun 27, 2015)

I have I think around 25k per year in our overhead numbers for vehicle replacement. 
Running two trucks daily plus a spare, planning to replace the daily's every 5-7 years.


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

Some sorry advice so far.
Big downpayment or buy it outright.
Maybe your last 4 years weren’t all that and a bag of chips?


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## FordSuperduty (Nov 28, 2021)

NYCB said:


> Figure about $250/week when estimating to cover the payment.


Do you charge for every single trip back and forward to jobs in your bids? including fuel, oil changes and truck payment etc? I'm not stupid I just want to compare ourselves to others on ways of doing things. I just wonder if we charge for things like this and it will scare customers off to someone else, and obviously it doesn't matter anyways if we do lose customers. its just a thought.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

WBailey1041 said:


> Some sorry advice so far.
> Big downpayment or buy it outright.
> Maybe your last 4 years weren’t all that and a bag of chips?



It doesn't matter it still has to be accounted for and paid for. As soon as you buy one your 1 day closer to having to buy another


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

FordSuperduty said:


> Do you charge for every single trip back and forward to jobs in your bids? including fuel, oil changes and truck payment etc


You mean you don’t? You missed the boat long ago if so. Tough reach to sail if it’s not in your o/h. You do pay for gas tires & maintenance don’t you





Mike


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

FordSuperduty said:


> Do you charge for every single trip back and forward to jobs in your bids? including fuel, oil changes and truck payment etc? I'm not stupid I just want to compare ourselves to others on ways of doing things. I just wonder if we charge for things like this and it will scare customers off to someone else, and obviously it doesn't matter anyways if we do lose customers. its just a thought.



Absolutely charge for all costs of having a truck. 

If someone can't afford to pay you, they aren't your customer.


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

Fordsuperduty, let me add you are only hurting us all by not charging for this o/h in your proposals. These types of business oversights or not knowing how to run business is a major downfall. Again it hurts us all in a big way


Mike


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## FordSuperduty (Nov 28, 2021)

Kingcarpenter1 said:


> Fordsuperduty, let me add you are only hurting us all by not charging for this o/h in your proposals. These types of business oversights or not knowing how to run business is a major downfall. Again it hurts us all in a big way
> 
> 
> Mike


No were not that stupid, I was questioning on how far to take it in terms of charging customers. we charge for fuel in overhead cost but I was wondering if we need to take to the extremes by including oil changes EVERY TIME, even though that only comes every 5,000 miles.


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

Oil changes is maintenance. 1 trip, 5,trips or 50 trips. Maintence starts when you start your rig. You know tires, batteries, wear & tear on all parts bumper to bumper. You think the doctor don’t have it built in when he uses his b/p monitor or stethoscope or tounge depresser. You pay for those things. Same as your client should w/your rig. I learned that part of business when I was 19


Mike


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

You do realize an oil change in some if these trucks us $200 and up, and it's a routine maintenance item. It may only be 4 cents a mile, but if you weren't working, you wouldn't be paying out that 4 cents a mile. The same thing with all the other costs, routine maintenance and repairs.

Need to get the truck detailed every spring to get the winter salt and grime out? Maintenance charged to overhead.

To give a different view, you can write off all the incurred business costs on the truck on taxes. I hope you do that. If all that isn't going into overhead, you're cheating yourself .


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

FordSuperduty said:


> No were not that stupid, I was questioning on how far to take it in terms of charging customers. we charge for fuel in overhead cost but I was wondering if we need to take to the extremes by including oil changes EVERY TIME, even though that only comes every 5,000 miles.


OP, you don’t charge for an oil change every time. You charge for the portion of your overhead attributed to each project, based on time on site, mileage, or some other metric.

For example, if you’re on site for an entire year at one job, that one job needs to pay 100% of any annual maintenance you might do (perhaps new starting batteries every fall?), as well as any routine maintenance due based on how many miles you rack up driving to and from that job for an entire year.

Hope that helps.


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## Adam_PDD (Truck2go) (Aug 29, 2021)

FordSuperduty said:


> Me and my father have a small concrete business. He had his own business for many years (close to 16 years) up until 2008 when everything went bad. We have been really successful for the last 4 years, we have so much work and could expand but finding reliable and skilled employees is a very hard thing to get.
> 
> Anyways, we have a fleet of 2 trucks both 2012s f250 and f350 and we are finding ourselves in need of another truck because we are so busy. I know it sounds stupid but how are you guys affording these new 60 - 70k BASE MODEL trucks. Trying to find a flatbed f350 diesel is minimum of 55k. Just curious if there is some magic spell or something to budgeting these vehicles. Maybe we need to charge more.
> 
> With the prices right now its insane, back in the day everything was affordable, we used to have 4 f350s and 2 skid steers and everything has just gone up in price.


I would prefer to go for a Used Certified Truck. Our company purchased all Used Certified, the same goes for my friend's construction business too.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

If you are turning down work (not to be confused with _not getting the work_), you have room to increase pricing. Ultimately a truck is a consumable item. The cost of consumables is on the rise. Don't fall behind the curve or you will take the hit directly at your wallet.

It's a lot more comfortable to be getting paid well and working steady than it is to be overworked and not being able to deliver. Ease your pricing upwards a bit and decide then if your in the right market to expand. Doing more work and getting paid the same isn't a good expansion plan.


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

Sounds like it would behoove you to get hooked up with a good business accountant to help you determine your overhead and operating expenses, and help you set up the appropriate labor rates, mark ups, equipment charges, etc. My guess is you are way under charging and basing your prices on what the competitors charge, and / or what your clients are telling you they normally pay.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

FordSuperduty said:


> No were not that stupid, I was questioning on how far to take it in terms of charging customers. we charge for fuel in overhead cost but I was wondering if we need to take to the extremes by including oil changes EVERY TIME, even though that only comes every 5,000 miles.


Since you said it twice, I thought it might be worth mentioning that I don't think anyone is saying you're stupid... we've all BTDT... the simple fact of the matter is if it's (no matter what expense related to the operation of your company) not included in your pricing, there's only ONE place for it to ultimately come from... YOUR pocket...

If you don't have 3-6 months of Capital Reserves and Emergency Fund to start with, that is a good place to put your focus first...

A lot of guys have different meanings as to what a "good year" has been... as long as everyone was paid and they made some money, that's a good year, etc. A good year to others would be everyone was paid, including you (as part of Labor or Overhead), the company was paid a PROFIT that help establish 3-6 months of Capital Reserves and Emergency Fund accounted for and any other company fund (i.e. - equipment, vehicle, etc.) that they may need, they have benefits for them and their family and any employees, a retirement account/strategy is being funded, etc.

Will vary from company to company...

If you're learning from the past, NOW is the time to get yourself setup for the next downturn so you don't find yourself in a repeat of 2008... keep in mind if you have to finance that next truck, that payment will likely still be there at the next downturn like an employee you can't fire... so tread cautiously...

If you have the capital set aside, nothing wrong in buying used and keep banking what you would have paid for a monthly payment for the next one and any maintenance costs that come your way in the interim and take advantage of the next downturn to get newer equipment...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

NYCB said:


> I've had to negotiate payment terms with suppliers before, but not because the job wouldn't cover it, only because payments were coming to me late and I had to stay liquid enough to make pay roll.
> 
> I can't imagine financing a toy and then having that liability sitting over your head every billing period.
> 
> ...



100%

For me That includes luxury vehicles. If I am buying a car that has the limited package with the heated and cooled seats and moon roof et cetera it's et cetera if I am going to finance any of it I'm not going to finance that package it's going to be a baseball model finance. I prefer not to have payments on personal vehicles either. 

When I was that kids age and level of established I was driving a paid off work horse and building equity not show boating


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

I felt like I over did it getting the STX package on a base trim work truck.

Cost me a couple grand more, but it was the only one in stock.

I know a guy that bought a fully trimmed truck for work, but still has to make payments. Screw that.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

NYCB said:


> I felt like I over did it getting the STX package on a base trim work truck.
> 
> Cost me a couple grand more, but it was the only one in stock.
> 
> I know a guy that bought a fully trimmed truck for work, but still has to make payments. Screw that.



I had 4 Stxs now 3, I have driven 3 and we've had 8 total. My dually was an STX, brand new 4x4 was 50k, I added leather and a tesla screen and it was bad ass

I think the STX is the best value package

My new ride I was getting a Lariat and when I was building the order the guy litterally said "if you are going to trash this thing out downgrading everything we should drop to XLT and add leather 😆 " I wanted a 60/40 seat/console, didn't want moon roof, didn't care about wood, didn't care about rear controls. It's not a chick's grocery getter my wife can have all that.

Wanted premium towing package, 360 camera, bed camera (gooseneck and fifth wheel), factory steps and gooseneck hitch, power mirrors, bedliner. Thats it. I wanted rubber floors but he said come on man so I got weathertechs

Now that I have it the only thing I think is different than stx with is heated seats - I could of done without that and gone stx with leather. The 360 camera - never use. Bed cam? Im a retard, I put a weatherggaurd box on it and not I can't see the GN/5thwheel hitches 😆

We will see how bad I tear it up in next 6 or 8 years and see what I go with next time

XL was fine too - except the one with roll up windows and push locks.. my hands would always pull up to passenger window to talk and do the hand crank motion..... I bought new and kept 11 months 😆


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

We always get the new contractors with the new truck, job trailer and dump trailer when the going gets easy.

After a few years, they are usually gone, never to be seen again.

Small town, same basic group of guys for the last 20 years. Every once in a while the new guys make it through the latest down turn and stick around.

Even the big guys around here have old crew trucks, basic boss trucks and the same trailers they always have.

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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

^^^^^

Don’t forget the new guy’s requisite vinyl wrap, generally at an upswept angle.


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

We always bought new trucks, but we ran them 250,000 miles, typically about ten years. Never once borrowed for one (or any other tool or equip), always paid cash.
It's really just basic math and a pretty simple matter to budget and estimate what a truck will cost you per year:
a. Original purchase price $50k 
b. After ten years it's worth $4k, so the truck cost $46k $4,600 per year
d. 25,000 miles per year at 12 mpg = $2083 gal @ $3.50 = $7,290 
e. Oil change every 3,000 = (8) per year at $100 $ 800
f. (5) sets of tires at $1000 $ 500
g. Allowance per year for major maintenance and repair $1,000
h. Allowance per year for wash & detail $ 800
i. Plates and insurance $1,200
TOTAL = $16,190 per year expense

To break even you better be charging your clients $312 per week
If you want to make it profitable, charge more. You should, probably charge at least double that amount so you can buy another when this one craps out.

This is just bar napkin math stuff and I probably overlooked something, didn't factor in depreciation, and may be way off on one or more of those numbers. Just wanted to show that it's really rather simple math to calculate the cost of owning a piece of equipment.


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

One option i used to use.
Get a cash secured loan from the bank.
Give them 10k, borrow 10k, make your payments. When it's paid off, get your 10k back.
When I did it, they would pay something like 1 percent. Don't know if they still do that. 

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Fishindude said:


> We always bought new trucks, but we ran them 250,000 miles, typically about ten years. Never once borrowed for one (or any other tool or equip), always paid cash.
> It's really just basic math and a pretty simple matter to budget and estimate what a truck will cost you per year:
> a. Original purchase price $50k
> b. After ten years it's worth $4k, so the truck cost $46k $4,600 per year
> ...



I figure 14k a year for a truck, split between two guys tacked onto what I charge per day. Holding company owns the trucks so I charge the construction outfit for them.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

VinylHanger said:


> We always get the new contractors with the new truck, job trailer and dump trailer when the going gets easy.
> 
> After a few years, they are usually gone, never to be seen again.
> 
> ...


Crew trucks we run into the ground , we sold 3 4x4 cress with 250k plus on them for 5k or less recently as we bought newer - one we gave to my aunt. 

My oldest truck is 2017 now, and they drive them about 25k miles a year so they'll be 10-11 years old before their replaced. 

"The boss truck" - upgrades are counted as profit it to me - just like I said about the luxury lines for my wifes car. If I could buy a new stx for 50k and buy a nicer package for 70k that to me is just taking 20k off my net profit. Just like buying anything else you want and don't need it's a profit not overhead. Except to the accountant, and the IRS


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I’m pricing out a new Lighting, at 94K it is 39K more than the first home the wife and I purchased. 

She’s going to love it when I tell her I am going to ordered one

Tom


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

That's the first electric thst makes any sense. 40,000 I'm interested. 95,000 not so much.

I'd want the biggest motors and range. When that becomes affordable, I'm in.

I wonder when third party motors will be available. More power for cheaper.

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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

tjbnwi said:


> I’m pricing out a new Lighting, at 94K it is 39K more than the first home the wife and I purchased.
> 
> She’s going to love it when I tell her I am going to ordered one
> 
> Tom


I am sticking with the base model. Nicely equipped, 230 mile range, perfectly suits my needs. My average trip to/from work is never more than 100 miles, and generally is half that. I plan on driving this truck 4 days a week, and only bringing my van when I have bigger ladders and equipment that needs hauled.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Introducing Volt Viper (TM), a fleet of drone mounted rapid chargers that come to you. Our premium services include remote location charging, Secured Access Site Autonomous Charging (SASAC), and dynamic in-flight recharging for long distance commuters and service vehicle fleets.

Starting at just $5.00/month and $.75/watt.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

reggi said:


> Introducing Volt Viper (TM), a fleet of drone mounted rapid chargers that come to you. Our premium services include remote location charging, Secured Access Site Autonomous Charging (SASAC), and dynamic in-flight recharging for long distance commuters and service vehicle fleets.
> 
> Starting at just $5.00/month and $.75/watt.


I was thinking similar, without the drone. Just a wrecker with a big genny on board. 

You one upped me with the drone, but I think mine is likely to happen sooner.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Warren said:


> I am sticking with the base model. Nicely equipped, 230 mile range, perfectly suits my needs. My average trip to/from work is never more than 100 miles, and generally is half that. I plan on driving this truck 4 days a week, and only bringing my van when I have bigger ladders and equipment that needs hauled.


If they offered the max towing package on a lesser model that's what I'd get.

The short bed is still an issue with me....I think it looks silly.

Tom


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

tjbnwi said:


> If they offered the max towing package on a lesser model that's what I'd get.
> 
> The short bed is still an issue with me....I think it looks silly.
> 
> Tom


For me that's not a big deal. Just gonna be transporting me, hand tools, and possibly step ladders. Also will use it as a run around vehicle, ad currently I just have the van.


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

tjbnwi said:


> If they offered the max towing package on a lesser model that's what I'd get.
> 
> The short bed is still an issue with me....I think it looks silly.
> 
> Tom


They do offer the max tow package and tow tech package on the small battery. The difference is that with the big battery that gets you to 10k and with the small it gets you to 7.7 k lbs. Both available on the Pro.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Mesilla Valley said:


> They do offer the max tow package and tow tech package on the small battery. The difference is that with the big battery that gets you to 10k and with the small it gets you to 7.7 k lbs. Both available on the Pro.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did not notice the max on the smaller platform, I need 10K anyways.

Tom


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