# Home Inspection Fail



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I get a call from a frantic former client Monday that she has a contract for purchase on her 2 story newer condo. 

I was the EC only on a recent kitchen project and we repiped and rewired only the kitchen for her remodel in 2015. She loved the decora style devices so she wanted them replaced throughout the condo in this style, and we did that.

So the home inspectors report comes in claiming that every single receptacle in the condo showed open ground, and not one single GFCI receptacle or breaker would trip. (Including pictures of the polarity tester lights, etc. You guys that clean up issues for a sale know what I mean)

I figured no friggin way! (But I doubt myself often)

The service call to check this out occurred this morning, and I tested every single receptacle in the condo.

Every receptacle showed clean and with a ground present, and every GFCI location tripped correctly whether in the panel or a upstream GFCI.

I fretted over this all week for no reason, and was guessing that there was a possibility that the inspector had a defective tester. I was relieved to see that this was the case.

Not bashing home inspectors at all because usually they find valid issues, but apparently it didn't dawn on this one that if every single one was showing issues, it could be his tester was malfunctioning.

So relieved and just wanted to vent!:clap:

Miller Time! And I think I need a vacation. I've been overbooked and overworking for the last 5 months.

Any similar stories!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

You need to learn that HI's are Gods of the Gods. Lekturshuns are just tool-carryin' monkeys.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Insurance inspectors are worse...


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

rselectric1 said:


> So the home inspectors report comes in claiming that every single receptacle in the condo showed open ground, and not one single GFCI receptacle or breaker would trip.
> 
> I fretted over this all week for no reason, and was guessing that there was a possibility that the inspector had a defective tester. I was relieved to see that this was the case.


()trimmed)

You suspected...and shouldn't the "inspector" have doubted his/her instrument as well? 

There's where the incompetency comes in.

I remarked in here years ago about a REO we were buying. The "home inspector" - that I the purchaser had to pay for - at insistence of Texas mortgage holder - had a fancy meter.

Row of LEDs went up & down like something from a Star Trek episode.

I reallly didn't give a flying fck - everything was getting ripped out after closing.

Oh! GFCI! tests good he says! I have to listen to this ding aling explain how, what, why of GFCI, 

I go listen pal, just do it and get gone. Oh I don't understand how important is his whizbang meter is and how GFCIs save lives. Really, sometimes there's just no escaping fools.

So I close. I pull the GFCIs and all the other crap wiring. 

The GFCIs - new wiring up to the attic, where they had skinned back a bare spot on K&T, wrapped it over and taped it off.

No ground any where in that damned house.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Sign of a professional - don't check your stuff, just go for it. What are they, 6 bucks? I had multiples, and gave one to my sister.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> I get a call from a frantic former client Monday that she has a contract for purchase on her 2 story newer condo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I can worry about things like that as well. I always have to remember most things we worry about never happen. Glad this was one of them! :thumbsup


Mike.
_______________


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

I wonder how he was testing for gfci tripping. A Wiggins style will do it if he doesn't know about the buttons on the receptacle.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Someone here says:



"Those Who Can, Do.
Those Who Can't, Teach.
Those Who Lack The Ambition To Teach, Inspect."


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## B.Johnson (Sep 17, 2016)

RangoWA said:


> I wonder how he was testing for gfci tripping. A Wiggins style will do it if he doesn't know about the buttons on the receptacle.


I have been told that the test button isn't a legitimate test, and that they had to be tested with a GFIC tester by the electrical inspector. Is that not true?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Are the plug-in testers (with test button) reliable?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

B.Johnson said:


> I have been told that the test button isn't a legitimate test, and that they had to be tested with a GFIC tester by the electrical inspector. Is that not true?


It is false.

UL White Book:


> QCYU
> This category covers portable devices with fixed attachment-plug blades, or probes attached to flexible leads, used to indicate various wiring conditions in 15 or 20 A branch circuits by a pattern of lights or other similar means along with markings or instructions to identify the probable wiring conditions which cannot be determined by the tester.
> The devices may include provisions for checking the functions of a ground-fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) connected to the branch circuit, or for indicating that a branch circuit is connected to an arc-fault circuit interrupter (AFCI).
> *
> ...


In addition, no manufacturer ever recommends using a plug-in tester. So according to their listing, *only* the device's on-board test button is legal.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> Are the plug-in testers (with test button) reliable?


No. If there's no ground, plug-in testers will not trip a GFCI. In addtion, I've had several cases where, despite correct wiring of new devices, a plug-in tester will not trip a GFCI.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

480sparky said:


> It is false.
> 
> UL White Book:
> In addition, no manufacturer ever recommends using a plug-in tester. So according to their listing, *only* the device's on-board test button is legal.


Don't you have to use a plug in to check the receptacles down line from the gfci. I agree with the on-board button being the best way to test the gfci unit. Why else would the test button be there?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Big Johnson said:


> Don't you have to use a plug in to check the receptacles down line from the gfci.


Nope.




Big Johnson said:


> I agree with the on-board button being the best way to test the gfci unit. Why else would the test button be there?


Convenience.

If the plug-in tester doesn't trip the GFCI, it doesn't mean the GFCI is defective or mis-wired. Push the button on the device. If it turns off the power, check for power downstream. If it's off, the GFCI functions as designed.

I've had several cases of this. And the manufacturer's instructions are part of the listing. I have yet to find ANY manufacturer who recommends using plug-in testers.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

480sparky said:


> Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My local electrical inspector (the real one) goes through and tests every receptacle on a gfci line with his plug in. After checking each one he goes back to the gfci and resets it for the next one. I thought it was to verify the ground was hooked up on all of them. I guess it could also be to make sure they are actually protected by gfci and not on another non gfci circuit. 

Super nice guy so I'd never question him anyway. And it's technically not my work or permit so....


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Big Johnson said:


> My local electrical inspector (the real one) goes through and tests every receptacle on a gfci line with his plug in. After checking each one he goes back to the gfci and resets it for the next one. I thought it was to verify the ground was hooked up on all of them. I guess it could also be to make sure they are actually protected by gfci and not on another non gfci circuit.
> 
> Super nice guy so I'd never question him anyway. And it's technically not my work or permit so....


That's just to verify the receps that are required to be GFCI protected are actually wired 'downstream' from the GFCI device.

He could just check each receptacle for proper wiring, trip the GFCI and use the tester to verify the power is out in all the downstream devices.


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## amelia2 (May 6, 2019)

*Ms Amelia*

I'm hoping you can tell me why the GFCI trips when it rains hard and can be reset when it dries out. I'm a woodworker and this has been driving me crazy to help a friend who thinks I should know because I work with my hands.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

It's getting wet? I don't know, it's just a wild guess. 


Mike.
_______________


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## ElectricianC-10 (May 28, 2016)

Lol


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## Jarrett.SPSI (Jun 23, 2019)

That's a bummer for something like that to have happen. It is unfortunate to say the least, but honestly something that could happen to anyone.
BUT, and this is a large but...
Being a home inspector in Washington, it makes my head spin when inspectors stop communicating to either the client, or the clients agent etc. when in a situation such as this, there could have been a lot less headache and stress if the inspector would have just communicated those observations to you or someone else while at the inspection to be able to rectify the situation if at all possible right then and there, whatever that might mean at the time. It should be as simple as that, right? I mean the "findings" werent even findings to begin with, and so if that can be figured out before everyone leaves, wouldn't that make things more efficient and accurate when the report is done? I know it does because that is how I approach all of my hhome inspections. 
Also, was the inspector certified? The funny thing is, it is typically not required to have any kind of certifications in most states to perform as a home inspector, in many states a license is all it takes. As such, you want to make sure any inspector you work with is certified through an accredited certifying body such as NACHI or ASHI. You can learn more about the importance of hiring certified inspectors in another article I wrote here. 
Well, I hope that was of some use to you. Cheers and have a great rest of the day!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Not sure if it's area specific but home inspectors are virtually unheard of when selling a home here unless the buyer demands it and even then most homes are as is no exceptions. It's the dirt that's desired here more than the home in a lot of places. Appraisal is a different thing though and pest inspection as well. 


Mike.
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## Jarrett.SPSI (Jun 23, 2019)

*Home Inspections are Area Specific*

Hi Calidecks!

You would be 100% correct in your thinking that home inspections might have a location-specific basis to them, just probably not in the exact way you might be thinking.

Home inspections themselves, and how they are performed/executed, and what exactly is accomplished or looked for during each inspection is heavily reliant on the area locale where the inspection is taking place.

For example, in hot humid California, you would expect to see vapor barriers/retarders facing outwards from the home when installed. This helps to keep the warm, moist air from penetrating into the interior of the home.
Up here in Washington where it can get pretty cold and rainy much of the year, you should expect to find vapor barriers/retarders facing inwards TOWARDS the home. This is to help keep the conditioned indoor air inside the home where it belongs, and where you want it.

This is a very simple example of some of the location-based differences you will find where home inspections are concerned.
The standards, building codes, and best practices are determined based on the local climate and environment, which determines what we as home inspectors need to look for, as well as many of the things we need to call out, hence, home inspections have a very local basis to them.

More in line with where you were going with that though, the recognized "need" for home inspections, in general, can be very location specific as well.
For example, if there is a local real estate market that is unusually hot for the area, buyers and sellers alike may forego home inspections because they aren't too worried about what issues the home may have because of the price or opportunity is so good.

Also, it is only within the last 15 to 20 years that home inspections have really begun to enter the forefront of the real estate industry and be included with the majority of home purchases and sales. So there are still areas that have not yet started this practice.

Personally, I fully believe due to the potential that home inspections have to add incredible amounts of information about a property, it's systems and their safety to any possible residents, and not to mention the tendency a good home inspection has to help calm a home buyers nerves in relation to a property, it will not be too long before people realize the incredible value and benefit home inspections have to offer both home buyers, and home sellers!
If you would like more information, I previously wrote a section about the direction the home inspection industry seems to be trending, and how we can stay up with it in the *forward to our Standards of Practice*!

Lol, I hope this helps you out at all!?

Take care and have a wonderful day!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jarrett.SPSI said:


> Hi Calidecks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




California is far from humid, compared to other parts of the country.


Mike.
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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

It's a mixed bag. A lot if the important parts of a building are left out if a home inspection.

I've seen buyer's try to use them as bargaining chips. In a seller's market, they have less sway.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Jarrett.SPSI said:


> Hi Calidecks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of the RE home inspectors that I have dealt with do a disservice to the buyer and seller.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

TxElectrician said:


> Most of the RE home inspectors that I have dealt with do a disservice to the buyer and seller.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


Dealing with one right now, House built in 1948, inspector thinks everything should be new and to meet todays code. Saw 2 mouse turds, says house is infested, wants p-traps on bath sink that is original to house, wants window replaced because it sticks, yet messed the fact that the sump pump does not work


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

CaliDecks @ #23: My Britannica has California with 16 out of 20 Climate Zones enumerated by the USDA...... some damp, some arid.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Fouthgeneration said:


> CaliDecks @ #23: My Britannica has California with 16 out of 20 Climate Zones enumerated by the USDA...... some damp, some arid.




I've lived up and down this state, it doesn't have near the humidity anywhere in the state as a lot of states. 

Can't think of anytime I've went outside and said, Damn it's humid! I've also lived in Florida and Texas. Both have humidity that's Gawd awful. 






Mike.
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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

a home inspection report has slightly less value than a piece of used toilet paper...:thumbsup:

absolutely ridiculous people actually pay for this garbage...


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

griz said:


> a home inspection report has slightly less value than a piece of used toilet paper...:thumbsup:
> 
> absolutely ridiculous people actually pay for this garbage...


But their lawyers want them to have it.


Correction on my previous post, house was built in 1928. Home Inspector said wire in garage needs to be conduit by licensed electrical contractor- the garage is detached and has no electric at all
Crack in garage floor, floor needs to be replaced- 1 crack in a floor from 1928

idiots


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Financed one income property through bank. Bank required a licensed home inspector report. Bank knew it was an REO, and a dog.

In my experience, inspectors do not DEMAND anything. They make observations, point out deficiencies, etc. They do not, and in this state, cannot make demands.

Now are some inspectors just short of daffy? You betcha.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Financed one income property through bank. Bank required a licensed home inspector report. Bank knew it was an REO, and a dog.
> 
> In my experience, inspectors do not DEMAND anything. They make observations, point out deficiencies, etc. They do not, and in this state, cannot make demands.
> 
> Now are some inspectors just short of daffy? You betcha.


this guy said "needs to be corrected" unlike the normal just stating the condition, Most would say crack in garage floor which would be common for a house almost 100 years old etc.
This particular guy wants the houses to meet the current code, saying stair railing have to be replaced because of 6" openings.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

griz said:


> a home inspection report has slightly less value than a piece of used toilet paper...:thumbsup:
> 
> absolutely ridiculous people actually pay for this garbage...


What's worse, is they think HI's are gods of the gods.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Financed one income property through bank. Bank required a licensed home inspector report. Bank knew it was an REO, and a dog.
> 
> In my experience, inspectors do not DEMAND anything. They make observations, point out deficiencies, etc. They do not, and in this state, cannot make demands.
> 
> Now are some inspectors just short of daffy? You betcha.



Yup. The buyer and their crack smoking RE agent come in with the list of demands. 

my counter typically looks like this:

No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Big Johnson said:


> Yup. The buyer and their crack smoking RE agent come in with the list of demands.
> 
> my counter typically looks like this:
> 
> ...



My typical reply is something like this:

Issue: Open splice in basement.
Remediation: Place box & cover on splice.

Issue: GFCI's are not grounded and fail to function when tested.
Remediation: Suggest to 'home inspector' that he read section QCYU of the UL white book and learn how plug-in GFCI testers work.

Issue *(Not found on your report)*: Incorrect breaker for AC compressor.
Remediation: Installed 25a breaker according to unit nameplate.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: CSST gas line not bonded.
Remediation: Properly bond CSST.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: No disconnect for furnace.
Remediation: Install disconnect.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: NE bedroom receptacle box loose.
Remediation: Secure box.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: Multiple grounded conductors installed under one terminal in panel.
Remediation: Separate conductors to their own terminals.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: Breakers in panel not labeled.
Remediation: Label circuits in panel.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: Multiple grounded receptacles installed on circuits with no grounding conductor.
Remediation: Replace receptacles with ungrounded ('2-slot') devices.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: Broken switch for dining room lights.
Remediation: Replace switch.

Issue *(not found on your report)*: Found 'professional home inspector' who failed to find many faults in this dwelling.
Remediation: Suggest homeowner demand refund.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

big johnson said:


> yup. The buyer and their crack smoking re agent come in with the list of demands.
> 
> My counter typically looks like this:
> 
> ...


this on a new build?


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

griz said:


> a home inspection report has slightly less value than a piece of used toilet paper...:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> absolutely ridiculous people actually pay for this garbage...




$350 for a fairly thorough, unbiased report of something a family is about to spend $300,000 on?

$100 To make sure the sewer line is clear?

Only an absolutely ridiculous person in this position would not pay.

- Not everybody that buys houses knows absolutely everything about them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

> $350 for a fairly thorough, unbiased report of something a family is about to spend $300,000 on?
> 
> $100 To make sure the sewer line is clear?
> Only an absolutely ridiculous person in this position would not pay.
> - Not everybody that buys houses knows absolutely everything about them.


Yeah, I'm not against home inspectors at all. One purchase, the inspector used this thing with a long, vertical array of LED's - supposed to tell him to the nth degree how well grounded the outlets were. House outlets all passed. After closing, I went in the attic and disconnected GFCIs that had been tied into K&T.

Same inspector though, went out into yard, found the septic field, dug down to confirm it was active and flowing. Now that - the actual "getting out there and grunting" - impressed me.

Just like any other profession - there's the 1 percent exceptionals - the vast middle - and the few pond scum at the bottom.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Mordekyle said:


> ........$100 To make sure the sewer line is clear?.....



I've never known an HI to own, let alone know how to use, a camera capable of running a sewer line.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

SmallTownGuy said:


> this on a new build?


Yes

Mostly the inspector being wrong and just some other bs stuff like expecting drywall to be level 5. 

The one yes was a cover plate missing on the garage door opener receptacle. Drywaller popped it off to hang drywall and it never got put back on. The real electrical inspector missed it on his final. Okay, that’s a legitimate catch.


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