# Priming Drwall and Texture



## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

I have a house that I am remodeling and have some questions regarding priming.

I have one room that had wood paneling in it that I took down and had to tape and float the sheetrock that was behind it and the other rooms had wallpaper that I removed. I am going to apply a knock down texture to all the walls and was wondering if I should prime first then texture and prime again, or if it is OK to just paint after I apply the texture?

Thanks for the advice.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

The proper way to do it would be to prime, texture, prime and then paint. Anything less is a shortcut, honestly. I'm doing a job now that is exactly as you mentioned. The walls had panelling which was removed along with a lot of the paper. Another contractor mudded the place including areas where the paper was still lifting. I spent my day today cutting out their patches and priming. Tommorow, skim, sand all the other stuff they did, then re-prime and paint.


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## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

Do you put anything on the skim coat before you prime? I have seen where some people put gardz and then prime. Also, do you tint the prime that you paint over the texture, or just basic white?

I am remodeling a 3,000SF house that had tons of wallpaper and wood paneling throughout, and one bathroom that they had removed the wallpaper along with the sheetrock paper that I am skimming before I paint.:thumbdown 

Thanks for the info.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

*Priming Drywall and texture...*

AA Paint is right with the priming, texture, then prime and paint. However your primer should be an oil based primer (para600 ceiling is great for this and is inexpensive) then do your texture then Prime again with an oil based primer for it is ready to receive either latex or oil based paints. If you just prime with a latex primer you risk the glue coming through if any left and also the texture coming off. Remeber Latex primer is water based and if it moistens the textuire the texture will come off.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

If you're using guardz you don't really have to prime over top of it but you can....because it is a sealer, not necessarily a primer. Priming over top of the guardz may be overkill depending on your situation though. 

As far as tinting primers. It really depends on the color I'm doing. Since I always do two topcoats, a tinted primer is not always necessary. If I'm doing something like RED then I'll either use a tinted primer, or if applicable SW's color prime system which is basically grey primers designed to give proper color appearance.

EDIT: Zinsser's website says no need for oil based primers....ready for topcoat after guardz.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Damn! What is with the primer then texture than prime again? Why wouldn't you texture then prime?


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

On both new and previously painted, chipped, peeling, or otherwise compromised surfaces such as this it is always best to prime before texturing. This is another one of those topics that people have argued until the cows come home. Priming seals the surface giving even porosity, ensures a stronger bond, and even drying of the texture. It also ensures that no areas of your texture will fail prematurely. If you've ever seen a texture come off in sheets.......there's either dust or no primer underneath.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> ...What is with the primer then texture than prime again? Why wouldn't you texture then prime?





AAPaint said:


> ... Priming seals the surface giving even porosity, ensures a stronger bond, and even drying of the texture. It also ensures that no areas of your texture will fail prematurely...





AAPaint said:


> The proper way to do it would be to prime, texture, prime and then paint.


Now that's one of those things I don't often see done properly
It might be fine skipping the first prime step
But it _will_ be fine, and will _stay_ fine if you do it right
Keep up the good work Double A!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

AA - Maybe I missed something? I thought we were talking texture sprayed to new drywall. Remodelnut said he is going to skim coat the walls first. 

Let me just re-ask my question.

If I am doing new drywall and am going to texture and paint it, are you saying to prime the drywall before texturing it? This is where I'm getting confused. I have always textured then primed then painted.


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## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

Actually I have a combination of many different wall scenerios. I have skim coated areas of walls that the sheet rock paper has come off after removing wallpaper that was previously painted, I have some new drywall, and have some walls that were painted with holes in them that I have mudded over.

I am in the process of priming all of the walls and then texturing. Then evidently I need to prime the walls again and then paint. I am using Zinsser 123 latex primer, but someone stated that I should be using an oil base primer. I am going to regret that?


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

remodelnut said:


> ...I am using Zinsser 123 latex primer... I am going to regret that?


No
But technically Guardz would be a better Zinsser product for your situation


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

Slickshift is correct. I seen that stuff when i went to get what he recomended to paint my bathroom with. (bulleyes 123 and perma white) That Guardz if i recall was like a high preformance sealer for problem drywall and i believe when i read the back of the can it did say specially designed to seal so wallpaper residue won't come through. I was thinking about getting it because it look so awesome. But slick said bulleye 123 and perma white so thats what i got and the walls in bathroom LOOK OUTSTANDING.


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## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

The problem for me is that I have tried to find some Gardz, but no one carries that in my area. I am hoping the Zinsser 123 will do the trick.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> AA - Maybe I missed something? I thought we were talking texture sprayed to new drywall. Remodelnut said he is going to skim coat the walls first.
> 
> Let me just re-ask my question.
> 
> If I am doing new drywall and am going to texture and paint it, are you saying to prime the drywall before texturing it? This is where I'm getting confused. I have always textured then primed then painted.


Yes, most texture manufacturers recommend priming prior to the application of the texture....even on new drywall! I know there is the argument that sheetrock compound is meant to stick tenaciously to drywall, but...it's still better to prime/seal the surface for the reasons I mentioned above. Not only that, but you can guaran-dam-tee that it will be bullet-proof, which is how I like to do things. 

remodelnut: You will be just fine with the 1-2-3. It is an equally great primer, just not the best of the best for this particular application. 

The job I'm doing now had almost the same deal. One room, panelling ripped down, sheetrock destroyed, paper peeling everywhere. Foyer, 40 year old texture....wants flat walls. My method exactly? One coat of Guardz, 2 skim coats, second coat of guardz then paint. Guardz will seal all that old wallpaper adhesive, fuzzy drywall, patches, etc in one shot.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Thanks AA, now I know!


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

remodelnut said:


> I am hoping the Zinsser 123 will do the trick.


You should be fine
I used that in my sister's home
Local didn't have it, I was too far from my regular suppliers, it was a freebie job
lol
I had an open can of 123....

It worked fine
It's just that the Guardz is a little better for that type of deal


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## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

OK boys and girls, Sprayed the 123 in all the rooms tonight and was pretty satisfied except I noticed a few runs so I decided to roll them out. This is where the fun starts.

In the hallway where I did nothing, I started rolling and the paint started coming off in patches.

In one of the bedrooms where I removed wallpaper. I was rolling out the paint and the paint started coming off where I did not skim coat and only washed with TSP,:wallbash: 

Some of the walls did come out all right though so there is a silver lining.

Any clues? I really appreciate the responses.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Rut Roh...


remodelnut said:


> In the hallway where I did nothing, I started rolling and the paint started coming off in patches


To be clear, there were no repairs in this hall, it was previously painted
It is not textured

You sprayed 123, then back-rolled it

When back-rolling the _previous_ paint came up?
Or just the 123?



remodelnut said:


> In one of the bedrooms where I removed wallpaper. I was rolling out the paint and the paint started coming off where I did not skim coat and only washed with TSP,:wallbash:


Same Q...the 123 was lifting or the old paint/primer/whatever they used before?

There's possibly some contaminate left on the old paint, not sanded enough or dust from sanding was left on the surface
Or the previous paint was too glossy and needs a de-glosser
In the bedroom if it's just the 123 that was lifting, I'd say the walls weren't cleaned/sanded/cleaned enough and some glue residue is/was still there
Unless the prev. paint is glossy, it may need de-glossing
We'll need some more specifics/details

Just to be sure, there's not a chance any of these walls are oil is there?
I doubt it, but because you are having problems we'll want to cover all the bases


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## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

The hall that I am working on did not have any wallpaper when I started the project. There could have been wallpaper there before, but I saw no evidence of any remaining adhesive.

Just the 123 was coming off.

In the bedroom I can see where it is possible that the adhesive is an issue even though we did clean the walls with TSP. Of course I have always been told to clean the walls with TSP to remove any residue, but I looked at the container and it said to use ammonia and water and not TSP 

We washed the walls down with water after cleaning with TSP.

As far as the walls being oil, I don't know. Not sure how to tell.

I will be going to inspect it this evening to see how the paint drys and see what I am going to have to do. I will be looking to see if there is dust on the backside of the paint on the walls in the hall if it is still coming off.


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## Dale (Aug 26, 2004)

How long between spraying and backrolling? If you don't backroll right away and the paint is starting to tack, you can kinda lift some of it off...just guessing.


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## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

I did not backroll right away. I came back after I finished spraying all the rooms and started backrolling. I would say it was about 30 minutes when I tried to back roll the hallway and the other areas.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

remodelnut said:


> Just the 123 was coming off....
> 
> container...said to use ammonia and water and not TSP
> 
> ....I did not backroll right away.... I would say it was about 30 minutes when I tried to back roll the hallway and the other areas.


It's probably the time delay

That would do it, espescially if you add in any of the other things mentioned

Though I've not done the the ammonia/tsp thing myself, I'm sure that's not helping

Back-rolling should be done right away
To the point of have a helper back-roll behind you as you spray


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## Humble Abode (Mar 19, 2005)

I never use 123 over wallpaper I have removed. You can reactivate the adhesive with any water based primer. In fact I had to repaint a bathroom from 6 months ago today for that very reason... we used 123 religiously back then.

Now I use BIN for previously wallpapered walls, it's cheaper than gardz and has a 45 minute recote time.

_I realize I am a little late to the conversation but I figured it was relevant because no one has mentioned BIN yet..._


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## remodelnut (Nov 30, 2005)

Well I went to inspect the damage tonight.

The paint in the hallways looks like it attached pretty well. I tried to scrape off the areas with a wallpaper scraper that were exposed after I tried to back roll and the only way I was able to get the paint off is if I took the sheetrock paper behind it.:thumbup: I guess the paint became too tacky to backroll and that was my problem.

In the bedrooms I did have some problems. In some of the areas were I started to backroll the paint and it started coming off, I had problems with the areas that were skimmed coated. The areas that were just the paint after I removed the wallpaper and cleaned seemed to stick pretty well.

The paint would come off like wallpaper when I scraped it with a wall paper scraper in the areas of skim coating. I did find that Sherwin Williams has something similiar to Gardz that I am going to put on the areas that I scraped off and see if that helps. The layers of paint that came off did feel a little dusty on the back. I guess the areas that have skim coating and did not come off yet, I will have to cross my fingers:innocent:

I appreciate everybodies input! I really enjoy reading the post on this forum.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Yup, sounds like the roller lifted the paint....the rest is positively from the dust.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

AAPaint said:


> Yup, sounds like the roller lifted the paint....the rest is positively from the dust.


Yup, that did it


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