# HELP! Trafficmaster Ceramica



## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

As you can tell from some of my previous posts I am a plumbing professional so I hope my flooring friends can help me with my dilemma.

I have a rental property that I attempted to install trafficmaster self stick Ceramica over soundly installed linoleum flooring. The linoleum surface is somewhat uneven in texture and therefore the self stick tile does not adhere very well. My friend who is a GC and has worked with the product before suggested I buy Roberts Vinyl Composition Tile Adhesive #2057 and apply it with a paint roller. Here are the steps I took.

1) Thoroughly cleaned the linoleum with TSP and let dry overnight.

2) Applied Roberts tile adhesive with paint roller and per instructions on can waited until adhesive did not transfer to finger which was about 30 minutes.

3) Applied self stick squares and thoroughly rolled flooring into glue.

The directions on the can says that the adhesive will remain tacky for 8-12 hours. It's been over 24 hours and the glue is still tacky as heck and worse yet, the tile can fairly easily be pulled up. What did I do wrong and what can I do to fix the problem? Thank you so much for all your input..


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

You probably put down too much adhesive with a roller and the adhesive needs to dry clear before the tile is installed. Putting the tile on wet adhesive, the adhesive may never dry.


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## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

I did wait for it to clear. Like I mentioned, it was about 30 minutes and no adhesive transferred to my finger.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

What did you do wrong, two things- listened to a GC and a friend !
Where do I start ?
Tsp- good! Next step would have been an embossing leveler, (patch) specifically designed to bond thinly to and grout lines etc. To make the linoleum smooth on an even plane like flat glass.
The VCT adhesive is wrong, two different types of adhesive, one(VCT) is a latex, other on back of tile is a pressure sensitive(acrylic) the two don't mix.
To fix , why not remove linoleum if it's not asbestos, patch wood where needed, apply some pressure sensitive adhesive designed for LUXURY vinyl tile, not ceramic tile, TILE is just a shape, what it's made of is the key to knowing what you need to make it stick.
I use to work at Lowes and Home Depot and I'd see ceramic tile in a cart and VCT adhesive as I walk by, I say what are you doing put that adhesive back!
I guess you may be able to wash the VCT adhesive off , try some dawn soap and warm water.


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## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

The point was to try and cut back on the amount of work by not removing the linoleum. I was reading on another flooring forum where applying Roberts #2057 with self stick tile is common practice. I'm confused.

Is it possible to remove the tile, clean the adhesive off the floor and use a type of acrylic adhesive that would match the adhesive on the back of the Trafficmaster?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

1929chrysler said:


> The point was to try and cut back on the amount of work by not removing the linoleum. I was reading on another flooring forum where applying Roberts #2057 with self stick tile is common practice. I'm confused.
> 
> Is it possible to remove the tile, clean the adhesive off the floor and use a type of acrylic adhesive that would match the adhesive on the back of the Trafficmaster?


Trying to cut back on the amount of work by employing methods and products you have never used before is a recipe for disaster...or at least there is a good chance that you are going to end up wasting time trying to figure out why it didn't work and cleaning up the mess. :thumbsup:

All of that aside, you can try to wash it up and level it suggested.

Here is the Data Sheet. It says use their remover or mineral spirits.

http://www.robertsconsolidated.com/files/support/PDS_2057_1_1.pdf


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

1929chrysler said:


> The point was to try and cut back on the amount of work by not removing the linoleum.
> 
> didn't save any time or aggravation, did it ?
> 
> Is it possible to remove the tile, clean the adhesive off the floor and use a type of acrylic adhesive that would match the adhesive on the back of the Traffic master?


probably should start from scratch.
maybe sub to a flooring guy. 

2nd times not a charm.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

There's a lot at work going on here. Your sandwiching adhesive in between two impervious material not allowing moisture to dissipate, it's good you let adhesive dry prior to installing over. The pattern of the linoleum may telegraph to new LVT over time, not sure. The latex adhesive of the Roberts vinyl composition tile will break down the acrylic pressure sensitive turning it kinda gooey and loosing adhesion. Also plasticizer migration from the linoleum may also break down adhesive I'm not sure cause the dam chemists are not proffering information, dam them!
Why the extra adhesive ?


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## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> There's a lot at work going on here. Your sandwiching adhesive in between two impervious material not allowing moisture to dissipate, it's good you let adhesive dry prior to installing over. The pattern of the linoleum may telegraph to new LVT over time, not sure. The latex adhesive of the Roberts vinyl composition tile will break down the acrylic pressure sensitive turning it kinda gooey and loosing adhesion. Also plasticizer migration from the linoleum may also break down adhesive I'm not sure cause the dam chemists are not proffering information, dam them!
> Why the extra adhesive ?


The extra adhesive is because the self stick would not adequately adhere to the linoleum even after the thorough cleaning with TSP..

So what would be your suggestions for the next step? Remove the tiles and clean the floor and apply primer over floor or apply luan? I want to save the tiles.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

1929chrysler said:


> The extra adhesive is because the self stick would not adequately adhere to the linoleum even after the thorough cleaning with TSP..
> 
> So what would be your suggestions for the next step? Remove the tiles and clean the floor and apply primer over floor or apply luan? I want to save the tiles.


Do you reuse a lot of plumbing parts? Or is it aggravating as hell when it wastes a bunch of time and makes a giant mess and still doesn't work.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

No lauan, no primer, if you patch(cementitious ) Henry's , Ardex, etc. Over the linoleum called skimcoating , it will fill the embossed (grooves) and at the same time help for the thin layer of adhesive to dry.
We come in and do this automatically if not removing, throw a blower on it to speed drying.
I would use additive for the patch so it will bond better since it's so thin. Manufacturers directions for embossing levelers should be noted.
I have done the lauan thing, not the best stuff, sure is smooth but you have to fasten the hell out of it 6" spacing in field and @ 2" along edges.
Coming in with a game plan woulda been a piece of cake, don't hate flooring cause of this.
But I do hate plumbing, sorry


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## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

Metro M & L said:


> Do you reuse a lot of plumbing parts? Or is it aggravating as hell when it wastes a bunch of time and makes a giant mess and still doesn't work.


Yes... In certain situations I do reuse plumbing parts that are in perfectly good working order. Thank you for your input.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

1929chrysler said:


> Yes... In certain situations I do reuse plumbing parts that are in perfectly good working order. Thank you for your input.


A serious question, what parts would you reuse?


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## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> No lauan, no primer, if you patch(cementitious ) Henry's , Ardex, etc. Over the linoleum called skimcoating , it will fill the embossed (grooves) and at the same time help for the thin layer of adhesive to dry.
> We come in and do this automatically if not removing, throw a blower on it to speed drying.
> I would use additive for the patch so it will bond better since it's so thin. Manufacturers directions for embossing levelers should be noted.
> I have done the lauan thing, not the best stuff, sure is smooth but you have to fasten the hell out of it 6" spacing in field and @ 2" along edges.
> ...


Thanks for your input Mike. You've been very helpful.


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## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> A serious question, what parts would you reuse?


Suppose you have to gain access to a clean out that is obstructed by a newer water heater. The customer understandably does not want to put a new water heater in once you are complete with the clean out. There is nothing wrong with removing the existing tank and reinstalling once you are complete.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

We reuse toilet parts, flange bolts, water supply line etc. Not everytime, lately customers were making area rugs out of their wall to wall putting hardwood or vinyl plank down. 
I think he's just proved he's not a hack with the water heater example. They were just trying to test ya! Good luck with the rental?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

1929chrysler said:


> Suppose you have to gain access to a clean out that is obstructed by a newer water heater. The customer understandably does not want to put a new water heater in once you are complete with the clean out. There is nothing wrong with removing the existing tank and reinstalling once you are complete.


I guess I don't see a water heater as a part. You aren't servicing the heater. So it's really not reusing. To be reusing is installing a sink and reusing supplies. Not that I would. If I touch it I own it so I am installing new supplies. Heck if the stops aren't 1/4 turn or look a bit worse for wear they get replaced as well.


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## 1929chrysler (Jan 11, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I guess I don't see a water heater as a part. You aren't servicing the heater. So it's really not reusing. To be reusing is installing a sink and reusing supplies. Not that I would. If I touch it I own it so I am installing new supplies. Heck if the stops aren't 1/4 turn or look a bit worse for wear they get replaced as well.


I agree.. Certain things really should be replaced such as supply lines. For liability purposes, it may not leak right then and there but as Murphy's Law goes, no doubt the customer will have their hand out with a claim a week later when it does.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Supply line all stainless, then connection on supply line made of plastic, why? They use to be metal, then nylon braid try to fool thinking stainless. Now plastic valve stems.


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