# How To: oakum and lead



## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

I don't remember what thread it was but someone had mentioned how they got to see some plumbers working with cast iron drain lines 30 years ago and they were sealing them with oakum and lead. 

It was always my understanding that they packed them with oakum, melted a pot of lead and just poured it in. Seems as though that would be a fairly easy task on vertical drain lines but how did they do it on horizontal drain lines? It's been a topic that I've wondered about numerous times over the years and after seeing it mentioned here, it's once again got me scratching my head. :confused1:


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

J.C. said:


> I don't remember what thread it was but someone had mentioned how they got to see some plumbers working with cast iron drain lines 30 years ago and they were sealing them with oakum and lead.
> 
> It was always my understanding that they packed them with oakum, melted a pot of lead and just poured it in. Seems as though that would be a fairly easy task on vertical drain lines but how did they do it on horizontal drain lines? It's been a topic that I've wondered about numerous times over the years and after seeing it mentioned here, it's once again got me scratching my head. :confused1:


We use a running rope.


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

I've never seen or even heard of a running rope. Did a search and found some pictures of it in use. They wrapped the rope around the pipe, poured the lead, took the rope off and then it looks like they used a hammer and some tool and packed the lead in. Is that done only once or is the hub filled in multiple pours? Thanks


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

J.C. said:


> I've never seen or even heard of a running rope. Did a search and found some pictures of it in use. They wrapped the rope around the pipe, poured the lead, took the rope off and then it looks like they used a hammer and some tool and packed the lead in. Is that done only once or is the hub filled in multiple pours? Thanks


Per Chicago code all joints shall be one continuous pour and must have a minimum of one inch of lead per joint, I still have a packing iron with a mark on the one inch point, till I learned how much Oakum you needed per joint for the size of the pipe. The amount changes if you are twisted jute as opposed to Oakum though.


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## MAULEMALL (May 16, 2010)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> Per Chicago code all joints shall be one continuous pour and must have a minimum of one inch of lead per joint, I still have a packing iron with a mark on the one inch point, till I learned how much Oakum you needed per joint for the size of the pipe. The amount changes if you are twisted jute as opposed to Oakum though.


 We used a green putty to form around the hub with a pretty good sized spout to recieve the lead...


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## skitian (Feb 5, 2011)

I've poured about a dozen vertical lead joints, mostly for toilet flanges, in the past 5 years. I've never had to do a horizontal joint, but we have all the stuff for it, and it's all twice as old as me.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> We use a running rope.


That's what we used in BT class. Along with a torch and a cast iron ladle.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

skitian said:


> I've poured about a dozen vertical lead joints, mostly for toilet flanges, in the past 5 years. I've never had to do a horizontal joint, but we have all the stuff for it, and it's all twice as old as me.


I've poured well over 5,000 lead joints, Chicago code still requires hub and spigot pipe, but the tools never change, my irons were given to me by a retired journeyman that was overjoyed to see them in the proper hands.

He also gave me all his lead wiping tools, but wiping joints is starting to be truly a thing of the past, I've worked for shops that even the owner of the shop couldn't perform this simple task.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I have seen this done a few times over the years.
My hat is off to any of you guys who even know what this is, much less how to do it or have the tools to make it happen.:thumbsup:


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

Ha!

I LOVE slinging lead! And the great thing is that - believe it or not - the NYC School Construction Authority still requires that all underground be done in XH, bell & spigot! Most of my Local 1 brothers are very fluent in the art of lead work. NYC master's license doesn't have a lead portion on the test, but the township of Hempstead still does the wipe for the test. They let you roll the joint, so I've heard it goes pretty easily.

JC if you really want to blow a gasket you should see the old timers pour the lead into sperm whale oil. . . if you have to repair a sewer main that's got water around it, the oil prevents the water from boiling off and throwing lead in your face. 

Just this winter I dipped a ladle that was filled with snow right into the pot - lead bits flew so far that they ripped through our overhead tarp and splashed guys 12 feet away. We were pulling specks of lead out our clothing for a few days after that.

The ironic thing is that the EPA has outlawed the melting of the stuff. It's a matter of time before no one can use it.

Keith


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## SAW.co (Jan 2, 2011)

I found this but didn't find it to helpful.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> I've poured well over 5,000 lead joints, Chicago code still requires hub and spigot pipe


 


UALocal1Plumber said:


> - believe it or not - the NYC School Construction Authority still requires that all underground be done in XH, bell & spigot! Most of my Local 1 brothers are very fluent in the art of lead work.


I really had no idea that lead was still used in the states



UALocal1Plumber said:


> The ironic thing is that the EPA has outlawed the melting of the stuff. It's a matter of time before no one can use it.


Yea, when my dad quit doing it, I assumed that it was a OSHA deal, gaseous lead and that sort of thing


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## skitian (Feb 5, 2011)

They actually make lead now that is safer to use. Thankfully here in Maryland they let put about anything in the ground. Also, they've been putting together cast iron hub and spigot with gaskets instead of lead since before I was born. All the new cast iron I deal with is no-hub.


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

skitian said:


> They actually make lead now that is safer to use.


No way bro. . . lead vapor is highly toxic to humans. It affects the nervous system and the liver, and there is no way to filter out the vapor - humans don't possess the technology. Sure, you can filter dust, but the vapor, absolutely not. 

The only safe lead is lead that you're not exposed to.

Keith


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm really surprised people still do it and makes me wonder if anyone still does it in my area. It would be something I'd like to see. 

Thanks for all the info and video. :thumbup:


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Haven't poured one since about 1967. This thread sure brings back memories.
Melting lead and safety is just common sense. Use fishermen and reloaders melt lots of lead. And in the shop, I have a 3' trough for 5050 for tinning copper panels, etc.


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

As I understand it, lead melts at 321 degrees, but melting is not the same as boiling and there is only a small amount of vapor released at the lower melting temps. It looks like OSHA has some pretty well documented 8-Hr personal exposure limit guidelines covering this and it appears that even if you substantially overheated the lead, the amount of vapor released would still be below the maximum limit. 

This is probably why guys, who have for years and still do, use solder irons and open solder pots to melt lead to make up copper gutter joints, cast their own bullets, fishing weights, sweat pipe joints or anything else involving molten lead aren’t testing with high lead blood levels or dropping dead by the thousands. It looks like you would likely have a much better chance of getting poisoned by ingesting lead residue than from inhaling actual lead vapor.


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