# General Discussion, Illegals



## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Don, I agree, yet disagree. Good help is hard to find, period. Whether their skin is brown, black, yellow, purple, or pasty white like mine, good help is good help. I'll attach a pic below of my best employee. African immigrant? Maybe. The good help you happened to find is of the brown variety. The influx of illegal/legal immigrants has not really happend enmass in StL yet. The few that are here are left over from a hellacious hailstorm from 3-4 years ago, and every roof in town needed replacing. My trade has not been effected yet. They seem to all be roofers. And they are easy to spot, all drive crew cab, long bed pickups, low-riders with tacky ground-effects, and big stickers the say stuf like "Ochoa" or "Michoacan". And I love the big bull hood ornaments.

Hell, I thought Michoacan was just real good herb, didn't know it was actually a place in Mexico.  
*flashes back to a Cheech & Chong movie*


----------



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

donb1959 said:


> But I will chose to hire legals any day over Americans as they are a better investment, period.


If you made this same statement about any other Nationality, - - you'd be accused of being a 'racist'.

I'll go ahead and depart from the 'norm'. Racist!!


P.S. I hired a guy about two months ago who's the best worker I've ever seen, - - 20 years old, - - fast, smart, mechanically-inclined, always on time, goes to college nights, etc. - - anyway, - - you wouldn't like him, - - he's American!!


----------



## pwrpapa (Jul 3, 2005)

donb1959 said:


> I have been lucky enough to find two legal immigrants.
> 
> I for one will not contribute to the chaos that is illegal immigration. But I will chose to hire legals any day over Americans as they are a better investment, period.


Are you telling us that you are a poor investment.
And no one should hire you because you are a POS American.


----------



## donb1959 (Dec 9, 2004)

Tom R said:


> If you made this same statement about any other Nationality, - - you'd be accused of being a 'racist'.
> 
> I'll go ahead and depart from the 'norm'. Racist!!
> 
> ...


Tom,
I'm an American, it really has nothing to do with race, it has to do woth work ethic. And if you think that Americans are not loseing their work ethic you need to take your head out of the sand. 

And not only are Americans work ethic challenged. They have become complacent enough to let things like our rights as citizens being taken away without complaint. Look at the SAT scores, is it possible that parents have become lazy when it comes to making sure their children excel?

The guy you found I believe to be an exception to the rule. He is ofcourse to be commended for such industry, but he is the exception to the rule.

I Love my country, it's the best country in the world. This country was founded on rugged individlualism, hard work and preserverance. But this country and the bulk of its people have been coddled and spoiled, they no longer do what is neccessary to build the life they wish for. Instead they put everything on plastic, all the while believeing this is the American way.

You feel the need to label me a racist, that's on you. But if you take a quick look around you will see for the most part my perceptions are correct.

Pro, you're right good help is good help, regardless of color. But I'm speaking more on nationality than race.


----------



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

donb1959 said:


> Tom,
> I'm an American, it really has nothing to do with race, it has to do woth work ethic. And if you think that Americans are not loseing their work ethic you need to take your head out of the sand.



What you say MAY even be true (possibly even to some HIGH percentage factor), - - but where I have a problem is just lumping ALL America's youth in ONE BASKET, - - and that, friend, - - is what you did. It's just not fair to those who work hard for what they earn.

I don't consider this guy so much an 'exception to the rule', - - as an 'exception to your stereotype'.

I guess it simply boils down to when he was looking for a job in construction, - - he luckily lived in my town instead of yours, - - LUCKY for me too.


----------



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Another thing, - - I don't really view it as being lazy, - - I think it would be more accurate to say this just isn't the kind of work they want to do. The guys you're talking about don't want to be in the trades, - - they're just there for the paycheck. Oops, - - your bad.

You've got to find (the few) that want to do this for a living, - - THEY will work!!


----------



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

By the way, - - I have no NEED to call you or anyone else a racist, - - your statement was self-explanatory!!


----------



## bellerose (Aug 21, 2005)

*illegals*



GCMan said:


> You stopped the thread? I would have done the same in admin's shoes, but I don't wear that brand, lol.
> 
> Speedy Petey, you may not realize it now, but you are a Libertarian.
> 
> ...


 My opinion. IFYou hire illegals you are un-american and a criminal yourself. Nothing costs less because they built it. Do prices of homes go down because mexicans built it ? NO. More $$ goes into the pocket of the contractor.
People are stupid.My cousin lives in santa monica in a 1.8 million $$ home. He had 2 mexicans doing electrical work on his house. I told him they were not licensed- They are not- barely speak english. I told him if something goes wrong-like a fire- because of electrical problems his homeowners ins. will NOT pay because he had UNLICENSED people do the work. He's an idiot.


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

bellerose said:


> IFYou hire illegals you are un-american and a criminal yourself. Nothing costs less because they built it.
> People are stupid.My cousin lives in santa monica in a 1.8 million $$ home. He had [unlicensed] mexicans doing electrical work on his house. He's an idiot.


Tell it like it is bro :Thumbs:


----------



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Deport the illegals and deport their employers.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Just curious as to how many of your ancestors were illegals? Many would be from English, Irish, Italian or Chinese extraction. I'm guessing blacks were legal if they didn't escape, at that point they became illegal. This country has always been a melting pot, the ratios of ingredients are always changing.


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Teetorbilt said:


> Just curious as to how many of your ancestors were illegals? Many would be from English, Irish, Italian or Chinese extraction. I'm guessing blacks were legal if they didn't escape, at that point they became illegal. This country has always been a melting pot, the ratios of ingredients are always changing.


Nice post Teetor :Thumbs: It's just thought provoking enough to otherwise mask the utter ridiculousness of its tacit assertion: that ancestral conduct has a bearing upon whether or not one may participate, with any amount of validity, in a dialogue.

And by the way, good use of multiple non-sequitors


----------



## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

How many illegals work on Wall Street?


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I'm guessing most of them but for other reasons.


----------



## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

Round em up and ship em out. Or piss on them.

http://www.thedailyitemoflynn.com/news/view.bg?articleid=9921


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Or? Why not and?


----------



## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

PipeGuy said:


> Or? Why not and?



Well Said Pipe.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Old, you are right and I believe that the new law should be regressive going back to the Pilgrims. Those that could show proof of a true American bloodline could stay.

Have a nice trip most of y'all. I'll be on the dock wavin' bye bye.


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Teetorbilt said:


> I believe that the new law should be regressive going back to the Pilgrims. Those that could show proof of a true American bloodline could stay.


NOTICE!! RHETORICAL QUESTIONS TO FOLLOW!!
Just where, or with whom, do you think the Pilgrims should've "checked in" when they arrived?. Who was the harbor master when John Smith sailed up to Jamestown? If the Pilgrims (and subsequent European settlers) were illegal aliens, then I guess Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin 'invaded' the moon.


----------



## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> Old, you are right and I believe that the new law should be regressive going back to the Pilgrims. Those that could show proof of a true American bloodline could stay.
> 
> Have a nice trip most of y'all. I'll be on the dock wavin' bye bye.



Hey Teetor, you know I have a lot of respect for you but heres the deal:

That kid that got killed in the link i posted was a friend of mines son. As a matter of fact, that kid, 20 or so hours before his death by an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT was laboring for me and he worked hard. Bottom line is this: Times have changed a wee bit since the days of the Pilgrims. If you honestly think for a second that these illegal douche bags are doing our country good, then so be it. I wholeheartedly disagree. Now that I look up to what you just wrote, I can't really believe that you wrote it..If you ask me, American bloodline means paying taxes and paying for Health insurance with the caveat of NOT EXPECTING A HANDOUT (been to an ER lately?). Do those pieces of filth you defend do that? Sorry to vent this at you pseudo-personally. You didn't know.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I guess that we might as well erase this;
Give me your tired, your poor, 
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, 
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. 
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: 
I lift my lamp beside the golden door. 

We could call ourselves the United Animal Farm of America.

The core concept of the USofA was freedom. The freedom to come here and succeed or fail. Freedom of oppression. Freedom of speech. All of this is now falling by the wayside. I believe that we are giving up way too many freedoms in the name of security. There is no security! Name one thing that the gov't has accomplished. Prohibition, failed. War on drugs,failed. Immigration, failing. You want security? Put up a Berlin wall between us, Mexico and Canada, an Atlantikwall up and down both coasts, set up a national registry and tatto barcodes on our foreheads. Let's put a blast dome over the whole thing too. Nice, tight and secure. Nobody in and nobody out.


----------



## PMAC (Jul 26, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> I guess that we might as well erase this;
> Give me your tired, your poor,
> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
> ...



Now you are just being out of control. However, you are totally right, The United States no longer needs your week, poor and hungry, we have enough of them already.

You are totally confussed with legal and illegal immigration. And like I said, its not brought to the publics attention and the problem is starting to be taken care. From here on out, it is going to be treated much differently. It can no longer be ignored and the majority of the people are willing to start doing something about it.


So compare you apples and your oranges. Sit back and feel sorry for your ancestors who got the shaft cause the white man outsmarted them. Whatever it takes. But the people of the United States, Who are here to be American not to turn this place into a third world poor country, are tired of this [email protected] crap! Watch out illegals you free ride is over!

Last post for me on this topic the rest will be taken up with senators, congressman, and the people that can help do something about it. And its time, as Americans if your elected officials are not doing enough to battle this serious serious problem, then DO NOT RELELECT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who is supposed to run this country, THE CITIZINS OR ILLEGALS THAT HAVE NO RIGHT HERE?


Ohhh GOODNESS, so you are saying that because we dont think people should be able to invade our country with illegal immigration tactics that we no longer have free speech. I think or freedom of speech is stronger now then ever! GO ask the 14 your old from beaver county pa who actually was threatening his classmates, but becasue he did it in a song it was considered free speech and the ACLU won his court case for him!


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Teetorbilt said:


> I guess that we might as well erase this;
> Give me your tired, your poor,
> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
> ...


That sonnet written by Emma Lazarus in 1883, while certainly moving, is not, in any way shape or form the basis upon which any sovereign nation in history has conducted its immigration business. Neither were the tenets expressed by "The New Colossus" considered by either our founding fathers or our Constitution's framers.

The 'core' of the USA is this:


> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Also at the 'core' is this:


> We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution...


I don't see the word 'freedom' used once anywhere in either of those two documents. And I doubt that the author's intent in employing the term "liberty" was to establish a system of govt. where-in criminal activities (ILLEGAL Iimmigration) could be conducted with impunity in light of the international, or domestic, circumstances of the day.

As far as your farm reference goes I would note this. When the USA gets to be an animal farm it'll be because the ratio of wild animals to domesticated animals is way out of whack. Too many wild animals in the mix makes for an unproductive and run down farm-and might even get the farmer and his family killed.


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Teetorbilt said:


> The core concept of the USofA was freedom. The freedom to come here and succeed or fail.


Warm and fuzzy? Yes. Accurate portrayal of the times? Far from it.

No one that took place in the settling of North America had the 'freedom to fail'. Only in modernity has a myriad of social programs bestowed upon those, principally at the margins of society, the luxury of being at once overfed and underworked. Failure in 17th century North America was followed swiftly by death from exposure to the elements, indenturehood or imprisonment. And the law of that day certainly didn't play with those who lived outside of it.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

One can see from these descriptions that the two are intertwined in most respects. Note that the synonym of liberty is freedom.

Main Entry: lib·er·ty 
Pronunciation: 'li-b&r-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French liberté, from Latin libertat-, libertas, from liber free -- more at LIBERAL
1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice
2 a : a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant : PRIVILEGE b : permission especially to go freely within specified limits
3 : an action going beyond normal limits: as a : a breach of etiquette or propriety : FAMILIARITY b : RISK, CHANCE <took foolish liberties with his health> c : a violation of rules or a deviation from standard practice d : a distortion of fact
4 : a short authorized absence from naval duty usually for less than 48 hours
synonym see FREEDOM
- at liberty 1 : FREE 2 : at leisure : UNOCCUPIED 

Main Entry: free·dom 
Pronunciation: 'frE-d&m
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : INDEPENDENCE c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous <freedom from care> d : EASE, FACILITY <spoke the language with freedom> e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken <answered with freedom> f : improper familiarity g : boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use <gave him the freedom of their home>
2 a : a political right b : FRANCHISE, PRIVILEGE
synonyms FREEDOM, LIBERTY, LICENSE mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. FREEDOM has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated <freedom of the press>. LIBERTY suggests release from former restraint or compulsion <the released prisoner had difficulty adjusting to his new liberty>. LICENSE implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom <freedom without responsibility may degenerate into license>. 

Give me your tired, your poor, 
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, 
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. 
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: 
I lift my lamp beside the golden door. 

This is what is written on the pages of the book held by the Statue of Liberty.

As to the freedom to fail. Many do for many reasons but here you have the opportunity to give it your best shot. If you do fail (notice that most newcomers don't) you have the chance to start over and over.

FDR is the one who screwed the pooch with the 'new deal' and made this country reliable on the govt. for individual woes. Now everybody expects big brother to take care of them. If all of the ghetto folks were not collecting welfare; If they were not dealing drugs, they would have to work or die. This would lessen our tax burden and reduce illegals incentives as there would be fewer available jobs.


----------



## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

Teetor--

What were the laws on the books regarding immigration in 1620?


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Old, a web search revealed nothing. A search of my personal library may reveal something. My best guess is that in 1620, it was pretty much an open field and it depends which part of the country you are referring to. The French were in LA, the Spanish were in FL and CA and Mexico still had Texas.

There was no central govt. so you will need to narrow the field.


----------



## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

T-

How about we just end this? Works for me. Have a good weekend. Later.

-Eric


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Teddy Roosevelt in 1919 said:


> We have room for but one language in this country, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house’


See, it's not a new concept-just an old argument.


----------

