# Dozens of wine racks, tens of thousands in inventory



## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Help me work this one out.

I'm currently building out a wine store. Don't get excited, there's no booze in the place yet.

One of the walls is going to feature horizontally stored wines being supported by metal racks. It's a fairly large area, approximately 25'x6' that's going to be racked out. The racks are about 48" vertically and, with wine, 16"ish wide.
Not exactly this, but you get the gist.








You and I both know there ain't no way the studs are going to fall where I want them, or even anywhere remotely close to acceptable per the designer's designer eye.
That means I'm gonna have to find a way to magically support these things, loaded with booze. Not a tremendous amount of weight, but we're talking probably 50-75lbs depending on bottle size, per rack.
I've got full 1900's 2x4's behind 5/8 Type X. I could probably just toggle anything that doesn't hit a stud and be fine, but I feel like I'd have trouble sleeping at night with that much money resting on just drywall.

Some things I've considered are:

1. Putting a layer of 3/4" ply covering the entire area. 
2. Putting up very dignified looking 5/4 pieces of stained hardwood horizontally. Designer hates that idea, but I think it would look awesome because I'd be making it from the same stock as the shelves.
3. I don't know. I only thought of two things so far.

Spill the wine, take that pearl.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Same thru-the-wallboard anchors used on assist/grab bars.

Take the wine, dig that girl....


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Perhaps ask the designer if he/she will mind what dinged-up, marked up drywall will look like over time...or whether wine splash from a broken bottle might enhance their "vision".


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

The average wine bottle is between 12 and 14" tall, which I assume means I should be allowing for 16" centers. Seems like it should work awesome with a stud wall, but I'll just bet I'm straddling every single one, no matter what I do. There's a chance for the miracle, but I'm skeptical and I'd like to be armed with a backup plan. The easiest backup plan is the aggressive anchor like STG suggested. I really love those metal/plastic ones that you zip in and thread into. I thought I liked WingIts, but I never used them anymore, so I guess I actually don't. 

The other thing I'm a little worried about is that the all is fuuuuuuuuuuuudged up. Waves like the Atlantic in this current weather we've been getting. Thinking the plywood would allow me to put some shims behind them and flatten the wall out. There's going to be wood shelving going above and below the racks, which I could press right up to the under and above sides of the plys, which would actually help me a great deal in solving that problem. No scribing since it'd be hidden by the ply.

Hmmmmmm. I think we may have it here, gentlemen.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Which anchors are you talking about..the metal/plastic ones? Togglers?


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm talking about the ones that are metal toggles attaches to two individually moving plastic pieces that have a cowel that binds them together once the toggle is in the wall and "zipped" down tight with the two plastic pieces. Then you thread in a screw that catches in the threaded hole in the center of the metal toggle. They're advertised for use in grab bar retrofits where there's no blocking, like John said.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Easy Gibson said:


> I'm talking about the ones that are metal toggles attaches to two individually moving plastic pieces that have a cowel that binds them together once the toggle is in the wall and "zipped" down tight with the two plastic pieces. Then you thread in a screw that catches in the threaded hole in the center of the metal toggle. They're advertised for use in grab bar retrofits where there's no blocking, like John said.


snap toggles


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

That's them. I like them a lot. They've gotten me out of a number of situations. They may be getting me out of another here.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

So, how I would consider doing it, is to mount 2 vertical pieces - say 1x2 or 1x3 oak or whatever wood is the charm - with the toggles first, then I'd attach the racks to the oak.

But vertical, not horizontal as you initially described. And then repeat for however many racks the job is calling for.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Other option... It's an expensive area... design it to remove sheetrock (replace with moisture resistant), place studs as needed for design, and re-rock, finish and paint... make yourself some extra coin, while making it a custom project...

The ply can work, but...


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Screw molly's and silicone on the back of the racks. Each molly is suppose to hold about 50 lbs, put 4 or 6 in each rack. Then a 3/16" bead of silicone on the back side to make sure they hate you when they want to remove them.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Every time I've ever removed something like that I've always said, "What ******* thought they needed all this silicone? The molly's would have held a damn car by themselves!"

Perhaps this week I can be that *******.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Leo G said:


> Screw molly's and silicone on the back of the racks. Each molly is suppose to hold about 50 lbs, put 4 or 6 in each rack. Then a 3/16" bead of silicone on the back side to make sure they hate you when they want to remove them.


I heard there's such a thing as a molly puller used for setting them, but never seen one. Do you have one?

Edit: Is this one of them?
https://www.tannerbolt.com/default....vHuT7PVsnRuz2s4aAqcKEALw_wcB&Page=item+detail


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Weird.

I've never even heard of something like that. I use the method where you spin the thing in between your fingers and hope there's no burs on the screws. Then, when it gets tight, you hope you don't forget to move your fingers out of the way before you squish them against the surface. I've legit torqued my two fingers against the wall before. Secure enough that I had to back the screw out to remove them. I tested.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Easy Gibson said:


> Weird.
> 
> I've never even heard of something like that. I use the method where you spin the thing in between your fingers and hope there's no burs on the screws. Then, when it gets tight, you hope you don't forget to move your fingers out of the way before you squish them against the surface. I've legit torqued my two fingers against the wall before. Secure enough that I had to back the screw out to remove them. I tested.


In the old-fashioned hardware store drawers, you can buy tiny little molly "wrenches" to hold the molly heads as you screw them. they have two teeth to catch the head. Look in the back of the drawers for them.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

These


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

I’d go plywood. After it’s on, you can put racks anywhere.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Leo G said:


> These


Those can't even hold a tp holder for long.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Z bar, anodized or painted to match walls. Get the spacing right on the walls... every rack could be jig marked drilled and hanging zbar clips applied all at once in a single area for efficiency. Then just hang em on the wall/cleats. Solves strength, alignment issues and makes the racks horizontally adjustable. Allows for making holes in the rack wall display for propaganda and highlight items in the future.

:whistling.... Now the 10,000 reasons why that's a stupid fukin idea, will follow.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Nah, that's solid. My only concern with that is that the wall is honestly so wavy it might not function properly. It'd be hard to make a level line 4 times like that and have it turn out looking good. I think...

Who knows. I have a feeling this one is going to involve a lot of putting it up, standing back, taking it down, etc...


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Easy Gibson said:


> Who knows. I have a feeling this one is going to involve a lot of putting it up, standing back, taking it down, etc...


Exactly why I mentioned it. Done a lot of retail fit-up like that. Just the thought makes me want to slit my wrists. Given "ANY" easier way and I'd be down with it.

Shoot it with a laser mark every couple feet. Transfer lined up and down. Just run 1 1/2" zbar clips on the racks. Can tolerate really wavy walls. Hell I've had to cut continuous hang part of the Zbar down to strips, just to get a fixture to engage.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

They're narrow enough that I think a continuous bar would work, so long as I used shorter pieces on the racks themselves, which I obviously would be, so I don't know why I'm typing this.

I actually don't mind retail. You're largely working in a non-annoying environment with plenty of room to spread out. The most annoying part is passerby constantly up in your business wasting your time. 
"When are you opening? Also, what kind of business is it going to be?"

Yo, you see me here holding the paint roller, right? You think I'm opening this business? You think I'm going to by a surround sound system from you? What kind of liquor store you ever heard of got a surround sound system? Get outta here!


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Use the snap toggles, 3/16.

Tom


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

tjbnwi said:


> Use the snap toggles, 3/16.
> 
> Tom


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Apply directly to the forehead.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Easy Gibson said:


> They're narrow enough that I think a continuous bar would work, so long as I used shorter pieces on the racks themselves, which I obviously would be, so I don't know why I'm typing this.
> 
> I actually don't mind retail. You're largely working in a non-annoying environment with plenty of room to spread out. The most annoying part is passerby constantly up in your business wasting your time.
> "When are you opening? Also, what kind of business is it going to be?"
> ...


Small mom and pop retail is a mixed bag. After hours in a mall, PIA to get going, but not a soul to mess your day/night up...unless you lock yourself out LOL Most of what I've been tangled up in has been larger regional-nationwide. Days of the same thing over and over. That's cool, but when you get to hanging a couple 50-100 racks like those. Hold it up, mark, set it down drill-set anchors test fit, set screws ... molly anchor or hole for anchor jumped and it's off just enough. Loosen up, slap it around, tighten back up x100 ... wrist slitting time or go get the frame of mind right to have a convo with Sponge Bob (Right RC? and FJ) while you work. ;P

I'd do everything I could for efficiencies. Laser lines, jig for marking drilling holes, setting the screws through the fixture into the mollys before going to set.  Anything to make it go faster-consider all sorts of 'chit'.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

i did up a wine room last month with those racks or something very much like them .Turned up to jobsight to find myself installing that type of rack . i went through some brain tweeking just like your doing .wish i had ply on the wall which would of made the job easier and seemly more secure .ended up using what was supplied .some sort of a toggle ,though not recalling the exact one .


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

the toggle/togglers work well. I've used them in the situations where more resistance to pullout force is necessary (vs just sheer/vertical). 

something like that, in a commercial environment with possibility of loss of good wine, I might even double up fasteners. ie instead of 2 on each side of the rack, use 3-4. It spreads the load across the drywall better as well.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> I heard there's such a thing as a molly puller used for setting them, but never seen one. Do you have one?
> 
> Edit: Is this one of them?
> https://www.tannerbolt.com/default....vHuT7PVsnRuz2s4aAqcKEALw_wcB&Page=item+detail


Yup, somewhere in my mess of a basement I have one.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Leo G said:


> https://youtu.be/SC1ZuxuZ2PU[/url[/... want to barely snug up the plastic retainer.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

If you don't use horizontal rails you are wasting time with your install...and I wouldn't trust anything in drywall in a commercial environment.

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## TRThomas (Sep 21, 2018)

What about opening a channel up in the drywall and install a row of 2x6/8/10/12 blocking centered on the top mounting hole in the wine racks? That way you know you have something structural at least at the top where the most potential pull force could be. Your drywall patch should be covered by the racks/bottles even if it isn't a prefect match to the wavy existing stuff. 

Snap toggles are the best in my experience in terms of ease of installation and holding/tearout strength but I really think you will be better served having wood backing for something like this. As you said, likely going to be lots of 'Can you move them down 1-3/32"?' 'Okay try back up 2"..'


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I do retail fit ups for a few franchises (AV, Security, Etc). Some companies use proper menu board brackets, some use indivitual wall mounts and you have to put them all perfectly level.

Anyway to save install time we run one or more horizontal boards, that give you structure to mount to and it gives you the perfect level. You save time in the end because each bracket goes to the exact same level on the board and you know you have something solid. Plus you aren't spending a fortune of drywall anchors or comprimising a fire wall.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Also thinking of making the case that horizontal is a fad and that they should let me make a floor standing built in.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Easy Gibson said:


> Also thinking of making the case that horizontal is a fad and that they should let me make a floor standing built in.


Yeah who stores wine sideways...

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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I can't believe I'm ****ing saying this, but.... it's what's hot right now.

Lots of vinyards are printing sideways labels now. God, I can't believe I know that.

Whatever. They swear to me they're going to sell tall cans of Old Milwaukee.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

just in case someone is not getting the joke .wine is stored on it's side or upside down to keep cork damp and air out .generally as in slowly changing to screw caps ,high end wine comes with corks .
wine country - boring info that is discussed at every gathering of two or more people ,or so it sometimes seems like .


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

JFM constr said:


> just in case someone is not getting the joke .wine is stored on it's side or upside down to keep cork damp and air out .generally as in slowly changing to screw caps ,high end wine comes with corks .
> wine country - boring info that is discussed at every gathering of two or more people ,or so it sometimes seems like .


Man I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain it....thanks for that....happy to know someone out there loves me.

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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Bruh, this ain't a damn vineyard. We're trying to move this ****. 
Store the stock horizontally, but put the facing bottle vertically so somebody actually buys it. 
How the hell you gonna keep a twist off cap or a composite cork damp anyway? 
Live in the now, baby.


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