# Way around worker's comp?



## curapa

When I first started out I did not have WC or general liability. The contractor I worked for would take a percentage out of my check to cover. I'm not sure of the legallity of this but it saved my from my $1200 down payment until I got on my feet. The contractor was legit and by the books so I would imagine this was a legal way out atleast on me, the sub. In the long run it did end up costing me more this way rather than if I had WC and GL on my own.


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## nadonailer

C.C.R. said:


> How much are you guys paying for WC? I'm paying $500.00 per year. (although it is just me). I'm just wondering is it the same for the primary owner and a typical employee.


I paid over $20k last year..........arty:


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## Forry

I pay between 10-20% of employee wages, depending on the job we're doing. Low risk jobs ie tile sork, finish work, painting are around 10% Ladder work, framing, etc' are around 20% Sooo I guess around $6-7000 a year?


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## Susan Betz

curapa said:


> When I first started out I did not have WC or general liability. The contractor I worked for would take a percentage out of my check to cover. I'm not sure of the legallity of this but it saved my from my $1200 down payment until I got on my feet. The contractor was legit and by the books so I would imagine this was a legal way out atleast on me, the sub. In the long run it did end up costing me more this way rather than if I had WC and GL on my own.


Did he take out taxes too, or did you pay? Get it straight with the IRS, whatever you do.


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## FramingFanatic

Just the thought that you want to get arfound paying workers comp disgusts me. Your employees are your most valuable asset. Your most precious tool. And you want to go and stiff them. What would your employees think if there was a potential that if they got seriously injured that they might not get workers comp because thier ever so loving boss desidd to save a few hundred bucks. I am completely bewildered that such a disgraceful thought would cross your mind. You were an employee once I hope to he!! you would feel the same way if your boss tried to stiff you on WC.


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## Double-A

Let's not forget that nadonailer didn't ask how he can do it, just who, if anyone has tried it.

Its a good topic of discussion that deserves more than just a disgusted attitude for a response.

Try adding to the discussion with accounts of experience, how you manage your WC rates, how you deal with clients that just don't see the need for it, etc.


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## Ed the Roofer

Also, one way to legally cut comp costs is to have the employees properly classified.

A person who does not work on the roof and does general ground clean up only should likely not be rated at the same risk factor as the roofing mechanics.

Likewise, your sales/estimators and office clerical workers get categorized at different rates too.

Ed


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## Renee2007

We have looked into that as well. Our leasing company is able to do all the payroll stuff and limits my headaches. Adds $4 per hour to the cost of the employee but might end up being worth it as taxes, wc, and no hassles are included for that price. We are their first carpenter leasing company and they were shocked at the price difference between carpenter wc and say an office secretary ($11 per $100 for carpenters wages vs. $0.36 (yes thirty six cents) per $100 for office worker).


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## Renee2007

Susan Betz said:


> Did he take out taxes too, or did you pay? Get it straight with the IRS, whatever you do.


You obviously have nevered owned your own company. Insurance is my largest overhead expense. What is really unethical is the insurance companies ask you how much you pay your people and if you pay them more (e.g. overtime) they expect to be paid more as well. We found that out when they performed an audit and tacked on an additional $2000 to the $1200 we already paid for WC for ONE employee!!!! We were just making ends meet and this was something we didn't expect and couldn't afford. Made me scared to even hire anyone as an employee ever again!


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## Renee2007

Renee2007 said:


> You obviously have nevered owned your own company. Insurance is my largest overhead expense. What is really unethical is the insurance companies ask you how much you pay your people and if you pay them more (e.g. overtime) they expect to be paid more as well. We found that out when they performed an audit and tacked on an additional $2000 to the $1200 we already paid for WC for ONE employee!!!! We were just making ends meet and this was something we didn't expect and couldn't afford. Made me scared to even hire anyone as an employee ever again!


I meant that to be linked to FanaticFramer


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## Ed the Roofer

Renee2007 said:


> You obviously have nevered owned your own company. Insurance is my largest overhead expense. What is really unethical is the insurance companies ask you how much you pay your people and
> 
> * if you pay them more (e.g. overtime) they expect to be paid more as well.*
> 
> We found that out when they performed an audit and tacked on an additional $2000 to the $1200 we already paid for WC for ONE employee!!!! We were just making ends meet and this was something we didn't expect and couldn't afford. Made me scared to even hire anyone as an employee ever again!


I believe you are incorrect about that. WC that I have is based on the regular standard hourly wage. Some states may differ, but that is my experience from my audits every year.

Ed


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## Floordude

C.C.R. said:


> How much are you guys paying for WC? I'm paying $500.00 per year. (although it is just me). I'm just wondering is it the same for the primary owner and a typical employee.




LOL!!! You cannot get workmans comp coverage on yourself. It is for your employees.

Are you an employee of your corperation??

You cannot take payment for workmans comp, from your employees pay. You cannot sell workmans comp to a so called subcontractor! You do not hold an insurance license and can get in some serious trouble for doing so.


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## C.C.R.

Floordude said:


> LOL!!! You cannot get workmans comp coverage on yourself. It is for your employees.
> 
> Are you an employee of your corperation??
> 
> You cannot take payment for workmans comp, from your employees pay. You cannot sell workmans comp to a so called subcontractor! You do not hold an insurance license and can get in some serious trouble for doing so.


 what the heck am I paying for then? I'm a "sole proprieter" no employees. I even got an audit last year. :furious: Why am I paying these people then? Are you saying if I get hurt on the job I'm f*&^ed? Seriously, help me out here.


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## copusbuilder

Wow, I must say that this thread has some egos that have been unmatched on this forum for some time. Very entertaining:no:


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## nadonailer

Double-A said:


> Let's not forget that nadonailer didn't ask how he can do it, just who, if anyone has tried it.
> 
> Its a good topic of discussion that deserves more than just a disgusted attitude for a response.
> 
> Try adding to the discussion with accounts of experience, how you manage your WC rates, how you deal with clients that just don't see the need for it, etc.


Thank you!! I never considered dodging the game, just looking for FAIR options. Jeez:blink:
I'll just keep paying WC, sorry for asking a question, guys...........


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## Susan Betz

Renee2007 said:


> You obviously have nevered owned your own company. Insurance is my largest overhead expense. What is really unethical is the insurance companies ask you how much you pay your people and if you pay them more (e.g. overtime) they expect to be paid more as well. We found that out when they performed an audit and tacked on an additional $2000 to the $1200 we already paid for WC for ONE employee!!!! We were just making ends meet and this was something we didn't expect and couldn't afford. Made me scared to even hire anyone as an employee ever again!


Yeah, actually I HAVE owned my own company. The guy was being "covered" by a GC. I was asking, did the GC pay the guy's taxes. Or did he file his own. 

For the GC, the liability insurance company will add more if you "cover" workers for worker's comp. The liability insurance company won't turn you in to the IRS, but they want their money. Apparently this GC was OK with that.

So my question was actually directed to the OP. Who paid the taxes? Technically, if the GC covered the guy, he's an employee.


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## apkole

Typically the owner is exempted on the WC policy. Our current rate is around 30%. Good mod rate helps alot. 

Grumpy, good post on your myspace. Think I'll print that one off for my customer's if that's ok.


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## curapa

The contractor only took a percentage for WC and GL I paid my own taxes at the end of the year.

Even sole proprietorships with no employees have to have a WC policy to cover the people they work for. I believe it is a way to exempt yourself off of their policy but yet your still not going to be covered.


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## Forry

Lots of contradicting information on this thread! WC is optional for me but mandatory for my employees. If I fall off a roof, well, I better land right, or I'm SOL. If I want to pay for it, I can cover myself too.

My employees WC is based on a percentage of their regular hourly rate. OT doesn't count, bonuses don't count. Just the # of hours worked x hourly rate x WC rate depending on wich classification their working under(I use many classifications for each employee in order to get the best deal I can)


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## Grumpy

In_Mexifornia said:


> Can't you just pay for one employee, and if/when any one of your employees gets hurt, that employee would be the one you are covering? Just a thought.


That's ****** funny. If the employee is an employee, when you get audited you will pay for each employee, no matter how many you say you have. You will also pay for un-insured subs. 

"I'm only going to cover one employee with my insurance and it's only going to be the one employee that gets hurt who is covered." "Oh crap, 3 of my guys fell off a ladder scaffold, but only one of them was covered!"



TigerFan said:


> My only problem with this thread is that it is often the "innocent family" that is driving this problem.
> 
> They get three quotes: $15k, $13k and $9k and go with the uninsured, no WC, $9k guy 90% of the time.
> 
> Screw the "innocent family" that cuts through the companies doing the jobs correctly. They deserve injuries every time.


$15k and $13k didn't do their jobs of educating the customer on the importance of insurance and showing copies of insurance and licenseing if applicable. If 15k and 13k did their jobs the customer would have been too scared to hire 9k. 

If the customer was looking for lowest price then there is no way you would have been able to sell the customer anyways and they get what they deserve. If 15k and 13k didn't educate the customer, then they are the only ones to blame for their loss of sales to the 9k guy and shouldn't be complaining.



C.C.R. said:


> How much are you guys paying for WC? I'm paying $500.00 per year. (although it is just me). I'm just wondering is it the same for the primary owner and a typical employee.


 Wow you are a one man outfit and have exempted yourself from coverage haven't you? 

Without giving you my exact numbers. Roofing is 41% of payroll. If I have 5 guys workign an average of 8 hours a day at an average of $18 per hour that's aprox $720 a day in wages. If there are 200 working days per year that's aprox $144,000 in pay roll for the year. *That's aprox $59,000 in workers comp!*

Have a nice day.



Ed the Roofer said:


> Also, one way to legally cut comp costs is to have the employees properly classified.
> 
> A person who does not work on the roof and does general ground clean up only should likely not be rated at the same risk factor as the roofing mechanics.
> 
> Likewise, your sales/estimators and office clerical workers get categorized at different rates too.
> 
> Ed


Yes sir. This starts with keeping properly detailed time sheets. Junior, one of my workers, does alot for me. In one day he might be cleaning a gutter, doing a roof repair, doing a siding repair. Each one carrier a different rate of coverage. While all the while, that same day, I have 2 sales men out selling who often earn more than Junior. 

So When Juniour fills out his time sheet he describes what he is doing. When Sam, my book keepr enters in those time sheets into quick books he properly classifies the wage. "Sheet metal and window glazing" which is Siding, Gutters and Windows, carries a rate of 19%. Carpentry Not Otherwise Classified, which would be gutter cleaning, garbage cleanup, gopher etc... would carry a rate of 25%. 

In regards to salesmen, an outside salesman carries a rate of about 1.7%. That's a big jump down from 41%. I wouldn't want to classify my salesmen as roofers. Also an administrative assistant is about 0.07%, which less than half that of an outside salesman. 

So not only should you classify what your employee is doing overall, but break down what he is doing DAILY, and when you are audited simply print out the report. Often time auditors will tell you that they are not capable of multi-classifying an employee, however on each and every audit dispute when we refrence the printed reports we have never been denied our dispute. We are audited every 6 months.

(All numbers are off the top of my head and can vary slightly)



Ed the Roofer said:


> I believe you are incorrect about that. WC that I have is based on the regular standard hourly wage. Some states may differ, but that is my experience from my audits every year.
> 
> Ed


 Mine are based on a percentage of payroll and don't take into account hours worked, overtime or regular time. 

I guess every company is different.



Floordude said:


> LOL!!! You cannot get workmans comp coverage on yourself. It is for your employees.
> 
> Are you an employee of your corperation??


Yes you can cover yourself if you are a corporation or legal entity. I am an employee of the company I own. I have to specifically EXEMPT myself. If I don't exempt myself then I too would be covered. I have exempted myself on the premise that I will not sue the company I own. If I get hurt on the job it goes solely on my health insurance. If I worked every day on the roof, I would probably have myself covered, but since I am only up there once in awhile actually doing the installations I'm fairly safe.

I am an employee of the corporation that I own.



apkole said:


> Typically the owner is exempted on the WC policy. Our current rate is around 30%. Good mod rate helps alot.
> 
> Grumpy, good post on your myspace. Think I'll print that one off for my customer's if that's ok.


Sure just leave any copyrights intact.


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## Grumpy

*Attention moderators*

Hey moderators feel free to merge my above posts, and delete this one.

edit by Ed:
I merged the pertinent ones for you Grumpy. Ed


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## C.C.R.

Hey Grumpy,
What do you mean, "I exempt myself from W.C." Are you saying if I get hurt on the job, I'm fU*(ed? I'm asking seriously here. I'm admittly not a businessman.


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## CrazyTaper

Always look out for #1. Employees are like cattle. Chew em' up and spit em' out. They don't give a rats ass about you anyway.:w00t:


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## Ed the Roofer

C.C.R. said:


> Hey Grumpy,
> What do you mean, "I exempt myself from W.C." Are you saying if I get hurt on the job, I'm fU*
> 
> (ed? I'm asking seriously here. I'm admittly not a businessman.


I was being serious in my reply. 

As the Owner or President of the business, even though a President or other officer is technically an employee, they can elect to be exempt from the policy. Yes, if that is done, that person would be screwed and not be covered by Work Comp insurance.

As Grumpy mentioned about the properly designated tasks and the significant variance in rates, if the Owner/President could be more properly classified as one of the other managerial tasks, rather than an actual tradesman performing the task, then they could be covered. Be careful to not actually be a worker misclassified though, because that could come back to haunt you during an audit or after an actual incident occurrs.

Grumpys method of daily seperation of tasks would be the most accurate and definitely would stand up to arguing properly which classification one was entitled to be subjected to.

Ed


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## stampcrete

I am a one man band in CT. This summer I did a job for a GC that required workmans comp. I had to get it even though in CT the owner is not covered. I thought that was a waste of money... -Kirk


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## Floordude

Stampcrete needs to be the DBA'ed business, with you listed as the employee. Stampcrete the business, would hold the workmans comp on you, the employee.

Theoretically you were employed. But you worked around it unknowingly, illegally.

The GC would have been sued had you been hurt. The workmans comp would not cover you if you did get hurt. Only your employees. Don't learn this the hard way. It can put you out of business.


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## DEAD_ONConst

Well, I have found ALL of this a VERY enlightening thread! All this information what I thought was a legitimate initial question. "I THOUGHT", until after having read the entire forum thread!

I am personally a ONE man operation! I specialize in finish work for the time being, and am working my way towards a GC. I do not carry workmens comp, as I was under the impression that as an owner/sole proprietor I would not be covered. Evidently, the local agencies around here, at least those I have spoken with, are idiots! I am prepared to foot the bill if I get hurt and use my health care insurance. 

However, I think I will make some appointments to speak with some attorneys in the area, and read up on New York Contractor and Business law!


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## Double-A

DEAD_ONConst said:


> I am prepared to foot the bill if I get hurt and use my health care insurance.



Yes, but what happens if you die? Or are disabled permanently? Will your estate seek to sue the homeowner because they are the only ones with insurance that will pay those expenses? There is more at stake here than your personal health.

This is what makes this such a hot-button topic.


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## DEAD_ONConst

*Yes, but what happens if you die? Or are disabled permanently?*

DOUBLE-A
"Yes, but what happens if you die? Or are disabled permanently?":notworthy

Hence my last statement!

"However, I think I will make some appointments to speak with some attorneys in the area, and read up on New York Contractor and Business law!"

I guess too, I might add, that I hadn't really given the "permanent death or disability" scenario consideration. Who of us thinks we will get hurt on the job? We are just as likely to be permanently disable or die GETTING to work! Hence the reason for car insurance!

But that is what this forum is for! We all have so much going on, it is FAR too easy to "look THROUGH the forest for the trees"!
Certainly has opened my perspective!:clap:


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## Susan Betz

Accidental death and dismemberment insurance is the cheapest insurance you can buy.


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## Floordude

DEAD_ONConst said:


> Well, I have found ALL of this a VERY enlightening thread! All this information what I thought was a legitimate initial question. "I THOUGHT", until after having read the entire forum thread!
> 
> I am personally a ONE man operation! I specialize in finish work for the time being, and am working my way towards a GC. I do not carry workmens comp, as I was under the impression that as an owner/sole proprietor I would not be covered. Evidently, the local agencies around here, at least those I have spoken with, are idiots! I am prepared to foot the bill if I get hurt and use my health care insurance.
> 
> However, I think I will make some appointments to speak with some attorneys in the area, and read up on New York Contractor and Business law!



You just think your personal health care is going to cover you and it will as long as you say it happened at your house or in the street. Don't tell them it happened on the job at this clients home. As it will be their homeowners liability insurance fitting your bill!!!!!!!!!!!

You better get at least DBA'ed if your going to run legit. Workmans comp ain't going to save you and your personal insurance ain't going to save you, while your on a job.:blink::blink::blink:


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## Jute

Grumpy said:


> "I guess every company is different.
> 
> Yes you can cover yourself if you are a corporation or legal entity. I am an employee of the company I own. I have to specifically EXEMPT myself. If I don't exempt myself then I too would be covered. I have exempted myself on the premise that I will not sue the company I own. If I get hurt on the job it goes solely on my health insurance. If I worked every day on the roof, I would probably have myself covered, but since I am only up there once in awhile actually doing the installations I'm fairly safe.
> 
> I am an employee of the corporation that I own.


I always thought I had workmans comp until yesterday... I am the pres./owner of a corporation, I went in to pull a permit on removing a deck box running new brass pipe and adding a new GFCI and light fixture for a swimming pool. I was asked for my policy number for Workmans Comp and I called my acct. and he said what WC policy # you don't have that. I have a mess and need to know how or what should be done to make this right... I'm a corporation in So Cal, I hold a c-10 license with a sole proprieter title, I have 2 employees (3 including myself). I'm licensed, take out payroll taxes, carry a million dollar bond and have a $12,500 bond with my c-10. Can anyone give me advice on what I need to do or who I need to contact to do this legally?? I would like to be considered an employee of the corporation also...Thanks, JB

Looking at the the topic, I don't want a way of getting around WC coverage!! I need to find the best way of getting this taken care of....Thanks again...


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## Double-A

California's worker's compensation; employer page.


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## Renee2007

Floordude said:


> LOL!!! You cannot get workmans comp coverage on yourself. It is for your employees.
> 
> Are you an employee of your corperation??
> 
> You cannot take payment for workmans comp, from your employees pay. You cannot sell workmans comp to a so called subcontractor! You do not hold an insurance license and can get in some serious trouble for doing so.


Actually you CAN get WC on yourself. It is paid the same way. If you exclude yourself you have to get a waiver saying that the owner is excluded. This is the only way to avoid WC for yourself. Most larger contractors want to see your WC certificate. You have two choices, either pay for wc for yourself or exclude yourself.


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## Grumpy

C.C.R. said:


> Hey Grumpy,
> What do you mean, "I exempt myself from W.C." Are you saying if I get hurt on the job, I'm fU*(ed? I'm asking seriously here. I'm admittly not a businessman.


I am saying that as the owner of my company I have removed myself from WC coverage. This is completely legal and based on the premise that as the owner of the company I am not going to sue myself. If something happens to me, it goes on my own private health insurance, not workers comp. 

Most of my work is now office and driving around, but If I were to be on the roof every day working I would either remove my exemption or add on some kind of acdidental death, dissability, dismemberment policy onto my existing health insurance.


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## Grumpy

Jute said:


> I always thought I had workmans comp until yesterday... I am the pres./owner of a corporation, I went in to pull a permit on removing a deck box running new brass pipe and adding a new GFCI and light fixture for a swimming pool. I was asked for my policy number for Workmans Comp and I called my acct. and he said what WC policy # you don't have that. I have a mess and need to know how or what should be done to make this right... I'm a corporation in So Cal, I hold a c-10 license with a sole proprieter title, I have 2 employees (3 including myself). I'm licensed, take out payroll taxes, carry a million dollar bond and have a $12,500 bond with my c-10. Can anyone give me advice on what I need to do or who I need to contact to do this legally?? I would like to be considered an employee of the corporation also...Thanks, JB
> 
> Looking at the the topic, I don't want a way of getting around WC coverage!! I need to find the best way of getting this taken care of....Thanks again...


Interesting that you would call your accountant? Why not call your insurance broker? I would think this would be the person who would best be able to help you with insurance situations.

WC and GL are two seperate policies, infact I personally have two different brokers on this. If you are a one man operation and the president of your corporation, you may exempt yourself and pay about $500 a year. True all you have is a piece of paper saying "this company has insurance" but you wouldn't really be insured if anything happened.


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## Grumpy

Floordude said:


> You just think your personal health care is going to cover you and it will as long as you say it happened at your house or in the street. Don't tell them it happened on the job at this clients home. As it will be their homeowners liability insurance fitting your bill!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> You better get at least DBA'ed if your going to run legit. Workmans comp ain't going to save you and your personal insurance ain't going to save you, while your on a job.:blink::blink::blink:


I don't think that is true. Though every insurance company will be different and each one looks for newer and better ways to screw their customers and get out of paying their responsibility. 

I am not positive, but I am fairly sure mine would cover me on or off the job.


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## Grumpy

CrazyTaper said:


> Always look out for #1. Employees are like cattle. Chew em' up and spit em' out. They don't give a rats ass about you anyway.:w00t:


That's perhaps the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Let me guess, you pay squat and have a very high turn over, but you blame your employees. Keep in mind you'd be the common denominator in that equation. 

I don't even know why i am replying to soemthing so blatently troll-esque.


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## Grumpy

stampcrete said:


> I am a one man band in CT. This summer I did a job for a GC that required workmans comp. I had to get it even though in CT the owner is not covered. I thought that was a waste of money... -Kirk


A waste for you perhaps, however I am willing to bet a hefty sum of money that the GC's insurance required it from all subs or the GC would be required to pay it... so the $500 you spent for insurance was probably a lot cheaper for him to reimburse you for than the 25% of your invoice which his insurance company would have charged him.

Yes another thing, those of you who hire subs, if for some reason youa re daring enough to cover your subs under your own sinurance... to reduce your liability demand a seperate invoice for labor and one of everythign else (materials equipment etc...). This way you don't pay WC on materials and equipment, only labor.


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## Jute

Grumpy said:


> Interesting that you would call your accountant? _Why not call your insurance broker?_ I would think this would be the person who would best be able to help you with insurance situations.
> 
> _This is the second person I called...I thought it was part of payroll is why I called the acct._
> 
> WC and GL are two seperate policies, infact I personally have two different brokers on this. If you are a one man operation and the president of your corporation, you may exempt yourself and pay about $500 a year.


 
_When I called my insurance company she gave me a quote for $35.00 a year becuase she said I can combine it with my general liabilty coverage??? I'm waiting for the faxed back form which should be here by 10:00 AM this morning. If all works out and she's right about this I might double the amount of coverage and add myself as an employee of the corporation. Does this sound right?? Thanks, JB_


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## Any Season

*moderator*

So how is Grumpy's post #58 less of a 'personal attack' than my post that was removed? I didn't even quote anyone...ps-no disrespect to Grumpy bc I completely agree with you. I just feel that when a thread is started like this one (how to get around WC) you are going to get heated responses and rediculous statements so why allow the thread in the first place but then pick through and delete responses?


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## Grumpy

Jute said:


> _When I called my insurance company she gave me a quote for $35.00 a year becuase she said I can combine it with my general liabilty coverage??? I'm waiting for the faxed back form which should be here by 10:00 AM this morning. If all works out and she's right about this I might double the amount of coverage and add myself as an employee of the corporation. *Does this sound right??*_


From my experience, no. Also if you do add yourself on as an employee it's likley to MORE than double. Before you make that decision ask what the rates are. Let's generically say 25%, and let's say you earn $50,k a year... Your bill for WC would be more than $12k per year. I'm willing to bet that's more than double than the $35 you were quoted.


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## Jute

Grumpy said:


> From my experience, no. Also if you do add yourself on as an employee it's likley to MORE than double. Before you make that decision ask what the rates are. Let's generically say 25%, and let's say you earn $50,k a year... Your bill for WC would be more than $12k per year. I'm willing to bet that's more than double than the $35 you were quoted.


I guess she had no clue either... When I got the quote it was for $3,600.00 a yr for one employee then if I added myself it would be another $1,800 per yr. . Had to do it and then when I got there with the policy # they said it didn't show up on there computor yet and to go ahead and sign it as exempt.... Thanks, JB


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## ConstSvcs

nadonailer said:


> It was suggested to me recently that a lot of Contrs are getting out of the worker's comp mess like this: Since owners can opt out of workers comp, you start an LLC and make your employees 'owners'. Then you lease them to your S corp company. You do have to get them disability policies , but it is still supposedly cheaper than wc. Anyone tried this? Workers comp is just so bloody expensive with everyone having to pay carpenters rates now....:furious:


All's fine until some looses an eye.......or finger...or one of your subs who has no comp, has an "employee"who receives an injury while on your site.

As a business owner with real employees........it is upsetting to see others who demand the same rates and pay less for insurance.:furious:

Balance the equation with the right help, the correct insurance and the correct clients to support your overhead............period !

Because...........if the day ever came that OSHA knocked at your door for an accident at one of your sites, the next visitors would be:
The state comp board.
The state revenue dept.
The victims attorney
The IRS.
And let's not forget....the property owners attorney!

We are talking about the USA....aren't we :blink:


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## nadonailer

ConstSvcs said:


> All's fine until some looses an eye.......or finger...or one of your subs who has no comp, has an "employee"who receives an injury while on your site.
> 
> As a business owner with real employees........it is upsetting to see others who demand the same rates and pay less for insurance.:furious:
> 
> Balance the equation with the right help, the correct insurance and the correct clients to support your overhead............period !
> 
> Because...........if the day ever came that OSHA knocked at your door for an accident at one of your sites, the next visitors would be: The state comp board.
> The state revenue dept.
> The victims attorney
> The IRS.
> And let's not forget....the property owners attorney!
> 
> We are talking about the USA....aren't we :blink:


Hey - read the whole thread before you post , we're talking hypothetically here (y'know what that means right?)
And its loses, not looses :no:


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## DavidC

I've just glossed over this thread so hope I didn't miss anything contrary. But I'm thankful to discover that at least most here think that the WC is a necessary evil. We pay way to much at premium time but when one of our own went down and became permanently disabled it was worth every penny and more. We will never pay in premium what he has received so far in coverage.

Those that go without are part of the reason that the rest of us pay so dearly for the coverage. 

And you aren't ever competing with anyone that doesn't have it. They are selling a different product that carries a whole lot of risk for their customers. I'll do my best to make sure the customer is aware.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Double-A

Excellent point.


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## David Ross

The key is- pay for workers comp you got to watch your back. But make sure you get a outside company to check that you are not being overcharged. Claims kill you. But if you have them make sure you are doing the correct things with them to keep'em low.


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## Double-A

David, welcome to the forums. I encourage you to make an introductory and tell us about yourself.

Again, welcome.


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## David Ross

Double-A said:


> David, welcome to the forums. I encourage you to make an introductory and tell us about yourself.
> 
> Again, welcome.


Thank You Double-A.
Workers Comp is my specialty. I love talking about it, and its a shame that people dont know more about it and are overcharged.
MY Word to you: Dont let the auditer tell you the rule- you do you research and let him know.


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## CrazyTaper

Grumpy said:


> That's perhaps the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Let me guess, you pay squat and have a very high turn over, but you blame your employees. Keep in mind you'd be the common denominator in that equation.
> 
> I don't even know why i am replying to soemthing so blatently troll-esque.


You know-some days I really do feel this way. I've had the same 3 guys with me for the past 4 years. I pay $14-$20 an hour with $1000 x-mas bonus and I give them a week paid vacation. I spot them hours when we are slow, never have had to put them on unemployment and give them cash when I get cash. I have an annual company picknick. I taxi them to jobs when it's a drive. I do alot and feel like I come last in this whole thing. My new resolution is to get the two common denominators out of the equation and just work 7 days a week and piss on the crybabys who won't work on Saturdays and occassional Sundays even though I pay DOUBLE TIME. This may be me venting, I didn't intend to come across that way.


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