# Drywall screw pops, ULW USG



## NailgunUSMC (Mar 29, 2014)

Looking to see if anyone has had this problem out there. I am a carpenter by trade and I have been doing my own contracting over the past two years. I have been working in the trades since 2003 as an employee, sub-contractor, and now recently contractor. I do most of my work myself. I hung a basement with ULW 1/2" sheetrock from USG I think, (not green board, maybe my mistake). I had framing 16" o/c with all the drywall glued and screws 12" apart. 4 to 6 months after project completion, customer showed me screw pops. And i'm talking they were everywere. I believe every screw in the field had popped. I am still trying to wrap my mind around it. Has anyone had this problem or ever seen such a thing? I am at a loss as where to investigate, but I assume it is moisture related. Thinking the best fix is to hammer, skim, prime, and repaint. Thanks.


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## D.E.P.S. (Aug 3, 2013)

Too many variables to give a precise answer.

1. Screws sunk too deep breaking the paper?

2. Was a vapor barrier installed behind the work to control humidity issues? (_ if it was constructed against the cement/block wall_)

3. Was the wood a little wet when wall was constructed?

4. Are there any rapid temperature changes like...... the basement only heated part time?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Yeah way too many things could have caused this. Another is what adhesive did you use to secure the boards. Some can shrink and some expand. If you used a solvent based adhesive it could have shrunk.


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## D.E.P.S. (Aug 3, 2013)

By the way! Welcome to the forums from a "Gator" sailor. Spent a lot of my career on amphibs hauling you crazy bazzturds around


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> Yeah way too many things could have caused this. Another is what adhesive did you use to secure the boards. Some can shrink and some expand. If you used a solvent based adhesive it could have shrunk.


Iv'e seen screw pops with glued board ...And screw pops with board that was not glued. Screw pops are caused by wet green timber drying out and shrinking .


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

http://www.paintsource.net/pages/solutions/new construction/nail_pops.html


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Ask any commercial D/C that deals with metal studs about screw pops ... THEY HAVE NONE! The mills are allowed to send timbers out with a percentage of moisture . 8-10 % {I THINK} 

Wood dries out from the outside in .... The deeper the screw is set the worse the screw pop will protrude . 


Like said ,,, There are other variables . PROPANE HEAT!!!! A BIG NO NO !!! during finishing and paint ! Propane and space heaters [kero] are humidifiers ! [wet heat] Drywall finishing needs a dry heat!!!!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

When the trusses show up and they slap em on the ground without any cover....Then they get snowed on /rained on etc.. Not only was that lumber green from the mill now It's soaked with moisture ! DOUBLE WHAMMY!!!


It ain't rocket surgery ! DRYWALL ! key word - DRY! 


If the frame hasn't cured then It's not ready for drywall!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I can go on!


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## rotarex (Mar 31, 2008)

blacktop said:


> Ask any commercial D/C that deals with metal studs about screw pops ... THEY HAVE NONE! The mills are allowed to send timbers out with a percentage of moisture . 8-10 % {I THINK}
> 
> Wood dries out from the outside in .... The deeper the screw is set the worse the screw pop will protrude .
> 
> ...


another note added to this is, if there natural gas connected to the house, get a natural gas heater its Dry heat vs wet heat from the propane heater.


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## totes (Oct 17, 2013)

rotarex said:


> another note added to this is, if there natural gas connected to the house, get a natural gas heater its Dry heat vs wet heat from the propane heater.


btu to btu, natural gas produce more water than propane when burned.


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## D.E.P.S. (Aug 3, 2013)

blacktop said:


> When the trusses show up and they slap em on the ground without any cover....Then they get snowed on /rained on etc.. Not only was that lumber green from the mill now It's soaked with moisture ! DOUBLE WHAMMY!!!
> 
> 
> It ain't rocket surgery ! DRYWALL ! key word - DRY!
> ...



I did a small warranty repair yesterday in a new developement. I was looking out the window and saw all the pretty new trusses for the house across the street exposed to the rain and sunk into a foot of mud.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

The LWD didn't help this stuff is junk it is very easy to drive the screws to deep and tear the paper. As far as the moisture if it was that wouldn't the seams also crack? I have had 2 calls in a little over a month for H/O installed lite weight drywall on ceilings with screw pops.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

D.E.P.S. said:


> I did a small warranty repair yesterday in a new developement. I was looking out the window and saw all the pretty new trusses for the house across the street exposed to the rain and sunk into a foot of mud.


I was talking with another D/C recently ..He said an H/o called him back for screw pops. They were only in the field of the board on the ceilings .All the field screws on the walls were fine [no pops on the walls]
The H/O told him that they had looked It up on the internet ..They said we know It's not your fault ! Ya Gotta love the interweb!!!:laughing:


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## elliot (Jan 24, 2009)

*screw pops*

The way i see it the ultra lite rock has no body,thats why it's lite,it doesnt hold screws well In the basement i dont think its as much moistre problem as installation( holding boards tight to framing not letting screws suck boards tight)proper screw depth.The right screw gun.Was the popping more on walls or clg? Sometimes we double screw the field,Sometimes it helps sometimes it dont.Thats what happens when they try to gear the rock to do it yourselfers.Did you tape it? I didnt hear you mention anything about the high shoulders which also seems to be and added bonus to this new rock.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

elliot said:


> .Thats what happens when they try to gear the rock to do it yourselfers..


That's not why .. The L/W board cuts cost for transportation . They can ship more board! It's all about them making money No matter how poor the product.. :thumbsup:


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## elliot (Jan 24, 2009)

*nail pops*

That makes more sense, if they dont care about the pros they definately dont care about Do it yourselfers


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## USG Corp (Apr 10, 2014)

*Drywall screw pops*

Hi all, 

The primary causes for fastener related issues are over driving fasteners into the panel breaking the paper, and lumber shrinkage, or a combination of both. Lumber shrinkage is often the result of high moisture content in the lumber which is not allowed to properly acclimate prior to installing and finishing the wallboard. Refer to the USG Gypsum Construction Handbook for help in repairing and mitigating these types of issues. 

Also, please message us directly with your contact information and we are more than happy to look into this issue further and help remedy.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

Yes you are not alone! It is definitely the lightweight drywall causing the screws to STICK OUT not POP Weeks if not months later. We have I have been fighting this problem over the last year and half. First blamed my installers and was eating all repairs. Then after a year of every job we did with lightweight starting giving us problems I knew something was wrong. Lightweight drywall is very porious and airy like a sponge just hardened. It absorbs a lot of moisture sitting in yards, on the boom truck on damp or rainy days, and most of all when the paint goes on! We install it, finish it, and it looks flawless till jobs are completed and occupied with regulated heat then it starts to dry out and it shrinks causing the head of a fixed screw to pritrud out. This problem is nation wide and more and more contractors are catching on fast. I have went as far as reaching out to other companies that are my competition and they all are seeing the same issue. We all need to collectively get together on this and file a class action law suit! I personally have lost thousands and thousands of dollars making repairs and being back charged by my builder to repaint. These are all repair that would have never arose before the lightweight drtwall! I no im not alone.......... lets get it done and take these manufacturers to the cleaners like they have done to us over the last five years with there 20% and 30% increases time and time again. Only to sell us this crap!


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## Magic (Feb 20, 2014)

USG Corp said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The primary causes for fastener related issues are over driving fasteners into the panel breaking the paper, and lumber shrinkage, or a combination of both. Lumber shrinkage is often the result of high moisture content in the lumber which is not allowed to properly acclimate prior to installing and finishing the wallboard. Refer to the USG Gypsum Construction Handbook for help in repairing and mitigating these types of issues.
> 
> Also, please message us directly with your contact information and we are more than happy to look into this issue further and help remedy.


Ya ya. Its all our fault. It has nothing to do with your new rock... Thanks


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

Magic said:


> Ya ya. Its all our fault. It has nothing to do with your new rock... Thanks


That's what there trying to shove down our throats!!! Like we were born yesterday and don't no what we are doing? That's the best they could come up with is wet lumber? Then how in the hell do explain it happening in ever rehab, remodel, and patch job we do? The lumber has been dry for year guineas! Nice try....


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I cut into some usg ultra light weight a few weeks ago and found a silver dollar size hole in it. Just paper on both sides.


I got some gold 5/8th today. That felt a lot heavier than the certainteed we usually use. It snapped and rasped really nice. I might make a switch.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

Another problem that has been noted is with the painters. When finished painted looks good, go back a few months later looks like crap. Seems this junk aborbs _lots_ more paint.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

This stuff is junk in so many ways! Manufacturers dont want to fess up that there is a problem because the have spent to much money retooling there production plants for the lightweight drywall. It just as bad s the Chinese drywall if you ask me! Mark my word that there is something big that will come out of this. Lightweight is in thousands of jobs if not millions and it a ticking time bomb when it decides to show it ungly face with it problems. I think im going to start a blog on it and get everyone's stories and experiences with it.


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## 3rdgen (Oct 14, 2010)

Agreed we have had horrible luck with this stuff too! High shoulders have costs me so many hours it's not funny. I don't know where you live but our main problem with these popped screws in the field is the bib system insulation. Or when they spray a few inches of foam and add batts over that. The walls are over filled and the light weight board is to soft. If you screw it off like normal all looks just fine until u push with ur hands on the wall and every screw pushes out. If I can't talk the builder/home owner into doing the entire job with 5/8" we have to double tap the walls (screw field off again. Even then I warm them before I start the project that this can and will be an issue.


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## Ancient Rocker (Jul 25, 2009)

The original problem in this situation is the insulation, not the drywall. If the cavity is overfilled, it makes no difference if you use 5/8 or not.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

Ancient Rocker said:


> The original problem in this situation is the insulation, not the drywall. If the cavity is overfilled, it makes no difference if you use 5/8 or not.


Correct! He is dealing with a different problem. I see this thread is getting a lot views since I started posting facts. Come on guys dont be shy I know there are plenty of seeing the same problems. So lets here them the more noise we make the faster things might get done.


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## Burns-Built (May 8, 2009)

We have been having the same problems as well here in pa, the drywall finisher has had quite a few houses "pop" and had to repair. The screws arent' popping though, looks good until after painted and then the screws stand proud of the board, if you push on the board the screw isn't popped it doesn't move but the screws are proud of the board. 

I don't think the problem is in the frame but the board is to wet. Does anyone know the perm rating of the new board compared to the old? The drywall soaks up moisture a lot more than the old stuff apparently. The way they are making the board makes it hold water because it is so porous.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

Burns-Built said:


> We have been having the same problems as well here in pa, the drywall finisher has had quite a few houses "pop" and had to repair. The screws arent' popping though, looks good until after painted and then the screws stand proud of the board, if you push on the board the screw isn't popped it doesn't move but the screws are proud of the board.
> 
> I don't think the problem is in the frame but the board is to wet. Does anyone know the perm rating of the new board compared to the old? The drywall soaks up moisture a lot more than the old stuff apparently. The way they are making the board makes it hold water because it is so porous.


I would guess you are correct that's why the painters are starting to see big problems with it.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

Burns-Built said:


> We have been having the same problems as well here in pa, the drywall finisher has had quite a few houses "pop" and had to repair. The screws arent' popping though, looks good until after painted and then the screws stand proud of the board, if you push on the board the screw isn't popped it doesn't move but the screws are proud of the board.
> 
> I don't think the problem is in the frame but the board is to wet. Does anyone know the perm rating of the new board compared to the old? The drywall soaks up moisture a lot more than the old stuff apparently. The way they are making the board makes it hold water because it is so porous.


Bingo! This is the problem I am talking about and im 100% sure lots of others are as well. But they havent caught on its a problem with the lightweight sheetrock and thy are blaming themselves and taking responsibility for the repairs. Just like I did for over a year and a half. I had a house/homeowner I did almost two years ago call me a few mouth back to come and take a look and my job. EVERY and I mean EVERY screw was sticking out of the walls and ceilings. Even shows thru the tape on flats and butt joints! And that when I realized there was a problem because I had already fixed and of them once the year before a few months after I rock it!


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

Burns-Built said:


> We have been having the same problems as well here in pa, the drywall finisher has had quite a few houses "pop" and had to repair. The screws arent' popping though, looks good until after painted and then the screws stand proud of the board, if you push on the board the screw isn't popped it doesn't move but the screws are proud of the board.
> 
> I don't think the problem is in the frame but the board is to wet. Does anyone know the perm rating of the new board compared to the old? The drywall soaks up moisture a lot more than the old stuff apparently. The way they are making the board makes it hold water because it is so porous.


Bingo! This is the problem I am talking about and im 100% sure lots of others are as well. But they havent caught on its a problem with the lightweight sheetrock and thy are blaming themselves and taking responsibility for the repairs. Just like I did for over a year and a half. I had a house/homeowner I did almost two years ago call me a few mouth back to come and take a look and my job. EVERY and I mean EVERY screw was sticking out of the walls and ceilings. Even showed thru the tape on flats and butt joints! And thats when I realized there was a problem because I had already fixed all of them once the year before a few months after I rock it!


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## lawnco (Mar 1, 2008)

*Screw pops*

A local rocker thinks the problem is with this Eco friendly "Green"glue. It seems this stuff has a longer cure rate ,expanding initially and then shrinking pulling the rock tight and causing the screws to appear to be popping.
When pressed at the screw there is no movement but the screw appears to be proud of the surface, we are eliminating glue to see if the results change.
Code calls for more field screws with no glue every 12" without glue 16" with glue, our local municipalities require a screw inspection prior to coating, they require 5 screws per stud in the field, so why glue?

Glue is used so fasteners can be fewer, with local codes we are eliminating glue.


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## lawnco (Mar 1, 2008)

*We are doing it wrong again*

I just looked over USG how to install Sheetrock guide. REALLY 48 pages of what we are not doing correctly.
Funny how problems are always us installers. The manufacturers change products overnight and never test or inform us of any changes, it is business as usual with us being the fall guys.
They take zero responsibility for their lack of educating us as to their money saving changes and we are to blame.
I have been hanging and finishing rock for 30 years with zero problems, now all of a sudden I don't know what I am doing.
Lightweight Sheetrock ???
Green glue???
All of a sudden framing lumber that has always been to wet is too wet?
NOW US INSTALLERS ARE AT FAULT???
Oh "did you happen to read our installation manifesto". 
It is Sheetrock, not a science project.
But it appears to be an "EXPERIMENT" WITH US CONTRACTORS AS THE PATSY'S.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

It's not the glue I don't use glue.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

ToolNut said:


> It's not the glue I don't use glue.


Glue could be a factor . But not the only reason why.
I've seen pops on board that was glued and not glued.

The unglued board had tons of pops due to the amount of fasteners used.


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## 3rdgen (Oct 14, 2010)

Ancient Rocker said:


> The original problem in this situation is the insulation, not the drywall. If the cavity is overfilled, it makes no difference if you use 5/8 or not.


I'm gunna argue this 5/8. Makes a huge difference. The new 1/2" is very soft and the screw sets long before it right to the wall. 5/8" is still solid and will suck down. I also believe that the screws showing after is a moisture issue it doesn't matter how many time you spot them they keep showing.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Wow 

Did not realize how much trouble this allegedly appears to be causing. Curious if any of my full time drywall buddies are dealing with this too.

I'll try to find out. :detective:


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## smeagol (May 13, 2008)

We use gold bold no sag ceiling board for walls too. A few pounds heavier than standard board but man it can hold a fastener. You can tack up lids with 4 screws


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## Magic (Feb 20, 2014)

Big Shoe said:


> Wow
> 
> Did not realize how much trouble this allegedly appears to be causing. Curious if any of my full time drywall buddies are dealing with this too.
> 
> I'll try to find out. :detective:


Every finisher I know is going through this. We do a beautiful job finishing but once painted the trouble starts.


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## Magic (Feb 20, 2014)

And how do we explain to our clients that the rock we get is plagued with problems? 
Wish the manufacturers cared...:sad:


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## drywall-d (Apr 30, 2014)

I am a drywall contractor in upstate New York. I have had the same problem, houses look beautiful when home owners move in. 2-3 weeks down the road seams and screws start popping. I am totally convinced the light weight board is shrinking. USG reps have an answer for everything but not the obvious.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

:clap: Boy I got everyone's attention now! Lol WHERE ARE YOU NOW USG? Come on chime in like you did earlier in this thread trying to cover your Butts "No pun intended" with your and give us another BS reason on the root cause and tell us what else we are all doing wrong all over the country! Or if you would like to talk to me personally you can P.M or email me [email protected] I would lo e to here from you on what you intend o. Doing to fix the problem or how we are all going to be compensated for all money's lost fixing your problem over the last few years.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

drywall-d said:


> I am a drywall contractor in upstate New York. I have had the same problem, houses look beautiful when home owners move in. 2-3 weeks down the road seams and screws start popping. I am totally convinced the light weight board is shrinking. USG reps have an answer for everything but not the obvious.


Where are you from?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

VanGoghFinish said:


> :clap: Boy I got everyone's attention now! Lol WHERE ARE YOU NOW USG? Come on chime in like you did earlier in this thread trying to cover your Butts "No pun intended" with your and give us another BS reason on the root cause and tell us what else we are all doing wrong all over the country! Or if you would like to talk to me personally you can P.M or email me [email protected] I would lo e to here from you on what you intend o. Doing to fix the problem or how we are all going to be compensated for all money's lost fixing your problem over the last few years.


I've been there done that Van!!! If you like smoke blown up your ass than by all means meet up with The suits ! The horse chit they can come up with Is priceless!!! But sometimes they slip up and give ya some really good inside info [without knowing it] Admitting a problem..But being the pencil neck pansies that they are.. their too stupid to realize WE KNOW WALLBOARD! They don't !


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

AND.......What really pisses me off !! The first thing a rep will ask when I call Is what supply do you deal with? What ? :blink:

The plant Is the problem ! Not the supply! Right? 


OH WELL!! I got a pile of certainteed board to fix tomorrow so they can make money while I loose mines! In The end that's all that really matters.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

Just heard a rumor today that Certainteed is pulling the plug on there lightweight sh*t rock! Anybody else heard of this?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

VanGoghFinish said:


> Just heard a rumor today that Certainteed is pulling the plug on there lightweight sh*t rock! Anybody else heard of this?


Can only hope so


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## dryrocker (Jan 1, 2013)

I hope Certainteed gets out of drywall all together. I have never liked their drywall. 

I have heard that the Green Glue shrinks as it cures. Either way, it sure is aggravating.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

VanGoghFinish said:


> Just heard a rumor today that Certainteed is pulling the plug on there lightweight sh*t rock! Anybody else heard of this?


If only it were true maybe others would follow.


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## NCDrywall (Jun 18, 2014)

How about the lite board from NG? Has anyone had any issues regarding their lite board? Hanging, finishing, or too many nail/screw pops?


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

is it just me, or is the paper different too? it feels.. brittler? I dont know if thats the proper way to describe it, but it has less give.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

The paper is indeed different. I heard that directly out of a sale reps mouth by accident. After being told there were no major differences between classic and lightweight and ther was no way that there lightweight product was the cause of all problems we are all dealing with. The paper is heavier to help with strengthening the lightweight mix. And that there could lie the problem itself.


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## VanGoghFinish (Aug 1, 2011)

Anyone else think its odd that USG Corp was quick to post on this thread and try and to pass the buck? Now they dont have anytjing to say after seeing all the posts from everyone dealing with same exact issues!


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I just used the National. Same problems with the voids in the fields, the shoulders did not appear as high (or I've just gotten used to the high shoulders). 

They get the lite weight by injecting a shaving cream type product into the mix. When it evaporates it leaves the air pockets. 

This lite weight drywall really does cause a lot grief. Only thing worse is the ultra lite weight compound. At first I thought it was me. Then an epiphany......

Tom


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

The only thing I use the ultra mud for is skim coating and I like it for that. Easy to work and easy to sand.


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