# which substrate for shower wall?



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

According to John Bridge forums regular sheetrock is good and the search function here turned up a lot of good advice about Green Eboard, but it doesn't look like my market has it (mid-lower Delaware). 

Is Durock or Hardi and a modified thinset to embed the Kerdi preferred or sheetrock with an unmodified for embedding the Kerdi?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

That's the first time I heard of "green eboard". Thanks for the heads up.


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

I did Sheetrock behind kerdi on the first few kerdi showers years ago but switched to cement board. I just feel more comfortable with the install. I know my own drywall kerdi shower is still doing fine and it's been over 10 years.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

I've used drywall and cbd,too. I prefer the cbd. If there is a plumbing leak you could have the drywall fail. Cbd would survive. 

Also, for towel bars or other penetrations, cbd is stronger imo.


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## sycamorebob (Dec 7, 2011)

Is Durock or Hardi and a modified thinset to embed the Kerdi preferred or sheetrock with an unmodified for embedding the Kerdi? 

Chevy, No Modified Thin-set with Kerdi, I use Kerdi Board Myself.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I wouldn't use a substrate that would promote mold growth or would fail in the face of a plumbing leak regardless of what others or any book says is acceptable.

I use cement board.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

I like densarmor. I'm not a fan of cement board.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Green Eboard is made in China. They can keep it. I use Permabase and AquaDefense for walls.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

DensArmor is my favorite for ease of use but it's hard for me to get so I mostly use Permabase. Durock is about the same. I'm not a fan of Hardiboard. That dust is brutal.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I used densarmor once. May try it again. Seemed a little more consistent in thickness.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Plus the screwing and taping it with Fibafuse is a heck of a lot faster than with the cbu. Just remember to wear gloves. DensArmor will tear your hands up pretty badly.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I have always preferred CBU over drywall. I've seen the effects of water leakage on the back of drywall where CBU would have stood up.
That being said, I have been using more and more Wedi over the last year or so and like it as well.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't have any problem believing that drywall should be OK, but it just feels wrong. I do condo work where due to fire rating the drywall is going to stay, but I still put on 1/4" Hardi.


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## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

We have recently started using Fiberock on shower walls due to the fact that it is the same thickness as drywall, where 1/2" Hardibacker is not. The Fiberock is easier to cut than hardi as well. Still makes dust, but not near as bad as Hardi. Once it's hung, we red guard everything and tile it.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

What’s the difference between DesArmor and DensShield?


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## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

DensArmor is drywall with no paper content 4x8 sheets. DenShield is tile backer 3x5 sheets. Personally not a fan of either, and haven't seen any at local suppliers for years.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Would it not make sense to put a “tile backer” behind tile? I’m just a simple kinda guy.


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## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

That's what we do. Haven't ever put Sheetrock behind tile. Boss would probably try to slap some sense into me (literally) if I suggested it. Not that I would, because I'm just as passionate about the quality of work we do as the boss is.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Im with Angus. I use Permabase but with Hydroban. 
Easy to work with and priced right.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

Schleuter insists that standard drywall is sufficient. I have done green board and it worked fine. Heck I did showers directly on too of green board years ago before I knew any better (showers in my dads rentals) and they are still standing. That said I have since honed my craft and I am particular to cement board. As mentioned earlier drywall with disintegrate in the instance of a plumbing leak whereas cement boar will survive. Also hardibacker is great for floors but wicks water so I would never use it in a shower.


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## sycamorebob (Dec 7, 2011)

DensShield and DensArmor Plus differences:
DensArmor Plus does not have a water-stopping acrylic coating. The coating on DensShield provides a water barrier to stop moisture from penetrating into the product and wall. DensShield is made to be used in wet areas such as showers and tub areas as a substrate for ceramic tile. DensShield is manufactured to ASTM C 1178. DensArmor Plus features a tapered edge for joint finishing while DensShield has a square edge.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Would it not make sense to put a “tile backer” behind tile? I’m just a simple kinda guy.


It depends on the location. If impact is an issue then it might make more sense but I'd probably go with Hardi before a regular cbu. For most tile applications a gypsum core is plenty strong and the only real concern is with mold potential. Fiberglass wrapped gypsum panels taped with fiberglass tape don't have mold potential. You're putting a membrane over the backer anyway so the surface isn't really a factor any more.

Being able to install large sheets without a lot of dust and extra weight and being able to tape the seams faster is a big perk to me. Being unable to order less than a full bunk was a big problem so I'm back to cbu. I also liked Densarmor for applications where I didn't have full control over the ambient moisture such as basements, garages and outbuildings. I used it in a garage recently that needed to be fully gutted, due to mold, only two years after it had been hung.


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I prefer to use dense shield on walls. Concrete on floors or fireplaces 
Just don't like hardi backer.


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## pwagg3712 (May 1, 2014)

I'm a rookie but don't u just screw durarock to the stud then redgaurd it


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

If I had my way, I'd have every bathroom I do wrapped in DensArmor. All the same material, no seams to deal with by the drywall/CBU transition. DensArmor has a great textured finish that gives a membrane something to bite to. I once left a piece of DensArmor outside. In the roughly 8 seasons if experienced in the Chicago climate, it never molded and only slightly started to delaminate. 

It's all a moot point now since it's a special order item around me and it's $18/sheet. No one wants to pay those prices anymore. Shame because it was a really good material. The hangers and tapers didn't like it too much....:whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Dens armour is used for exterior sheathing on nearly every commercial build and some residential. I'm shocked it's special order for ya.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Dens armour is used for exterior sheathing on nearly every commercial build and some residential. I'm shocked it's special order for ya.


how are you already at 2888 points. post spammer :laughing:


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I'd kill for 18 bucks a sheet. Dense shield is about 35 bucks a 4x8


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> Dens armour is used for exterior sheathing on nearly every commercial build and some residential. I'm shocked it's special order for ya.


Exterior sheathing is DensGlass.



B.D.R. said:


> I'd kill for 18 bucks a sheet. Dense shield is about 35 bucks a 4x8


I'm talking DensArmor.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

what is this new "rewards points" system?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

TNT gives you "points" for every new member you offend, so he doesn't have to. The points accumulated are redeemable towards cash off Schluter classes.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> TNT gives you "points" for every new member you offend, so he doesn't have to. The points accumulated are redeemable towards cash off Schluter classes.


And Schluter samples...


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Damn, you are really upping this rewards program!


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

angus242 said:


> TNT gives you "points" for every new member you offend, so he doesn't have to. The points accumulated are redeemable towards cash off Schluter classes.


Does it have to be new members only? If not I won five years ago... Now watch a case of installation guides and 43 rings of profile samples show up at my door.


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