# Going Rate threads and 'tree fiddy'



## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

Whaddya say guys...ya feelin' like the joke's a bit old now?

How about hitting the Red Exclamation button instead and we'll make the thread disappear?

We mods will do our level best to keep out the riff raff and non-contractors but we need your help to catch the threads early. Having 20 dif. responses w/ nothing more than variations of 'tree-fiddy' isn't doing a lot for the professionalism of the forum.

Mac


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

Sounds great to me. 

Tree-fiddy was funny when I first saw it, only because I had previously seen the South Park episode. I roll my eyes every time I see it now. 

I try not to even look into pricing threads but I will make it a point to flag them now. I did not realize any pricing threads were ever closed or removed. I thought the people were just heckled until they left.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

curapa said:


> I did not realize any pricing threads were ever closed or removed. I thought the people were just heckled until they left.


x2 

Guilty as charged....


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

Thanks Mac... It's funny but I don't think people realize how unfriendly the site comes off when people constantly post answers like this.


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

I agree and I am as guiltiy as anyone. I know you have to have a certain # of post before you can post pics what about like 15 post before you can start a thread? That may keep the one post price seekers at bay.


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## RCPainting (Jan 29, 2006)

I think one of the best responses for pricing questions is a polite redirection to 
http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/pricing-estimating-success-27899/


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## Chasing Dreams (Oct 12, 2009)

wyoming 1 said:


> I agree and I am as guiltiy as anyone. I know you have to have a certain # of post before you can post pics what about like 15 post before you can start a thread? That may keep the one post price seekers at bay.


Great Idea,....... GIVE before you TAKE!


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## maninthesea (Nov 11, 2008)

maybe the minimum should be tree-fiddy


sorry could not stop myself


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

BuiltByMAC said:


> Whaddya say guys...ya feelin' like the joke's a bit old now?
> 
> How about hitting the Red Exclamation button instead and we'll make the thread disappear?
> 
> ...


Maybe you guys should take care of the posts from the get-go.
No one likes being asked what do I charge, what is the going rate BS.
Why do we need to police it for you guys. It's normally a bunch of HO's trying to shoot some fish in a barrell. 

Maybe I will take a pro-active route and start telling them how much it really is.

Between this and craigs list, there is a lot of pissing and moaning.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

CookeCarpentry said:


> x2
> 
> Guilty as charged....


Me too. Yeah it's getting old.

When I spot them, I usually ask politely for them to fill out their profile and do an intro etc. I'm sure the mods get tired of typing that over and over and over and over.

Most times they get right on it and appreciate the "clue in". If they are brand new, they usually simply don't know and mean no offense.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Maybe you guys should take care of the posts from the get-go.
> No one likes being asked what do I charge, what is the going rate BS.
> Why do we need to police it for you guys. It's normally a bunch of HO's trying to shoot some fish in a barrell.
> 
> ...


A valid point is brought up here by Warner.

Maybe more mods need to be added or a way better protocol for signing up to post (no saying your info has to be public, you could have the choice of public or not), but there should be some sort of verification process.

It's like a double edged sword, the forum wants more members, but wouldn't stricter standards (either through policing threads or sign up) cut down on the amount of new members?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Maybe more mods need to be added


But isn't that what Mac is asking? If anyone reads a "how much" thread, instead of typing tree fiddy, just click the read "alert" icon and you've just moderated.

I don't think he's asking for all of us to do anything extra. If you happen to already be looking at one of these threads, just click the icon. :thumbup:

Besides, I like being a mini gmod!


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

angus242 said:


> But isn't that what Mac is asking? If anyone reads a "how much" thread, instead of typing tree fiddy, just click the read "alert" icon and you've just moderated.
> 
> I don't think he's asking for all of us to do anything extra. If you happen to already be looking at one of these threads, just click the icon. :thumbup:
> 
> Besides, I like being a mini gmod!


LMAO:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Maybe you guys should take care of the posts from the get-go.
> No one likes being asked what do I charge, what is the going rate BS.
> Why do we need to police it for you guys. It's normally a bunch of HO's trying to shoot some fish in a barrell.
> 
> ...





CookeCarpentry said:


> A valid point is brought up here by Warner.
> 
> Maybe more mods need to be added or a way better protocol for signing up to post (no saying your info has to be public, you could have the choice of public or not), but there should be some sort of verification process.
> 
> It's like a double edged sword, the forum wants more members, but wouldn't stricter standards (either through policing threads or sign up) cut down on the amount of new members?


The thing I fear personally more than anything else here is creating animosity. Most people have valid opinions and when I regulate their opinions, things get very dicey on my end. You don't know how many people have PM'd me or said nasty things to me because I edited their post. I'm not heartless and it makes me wonder if I did the right thing sometimes. I try my best not to step on toes.

Nathan has set up a very relaxed atmosphere here. He gave 5 or 6 basic rules to go by in loose translation. I can't speak for him, but I feel his intent is to try to welcome everyone as much as possible without being total pricks about things. You set up too many rules and it just becomes obnoxious.

Do I want your help? Yeah, I do, and I appreciate it alot. I pressed the red button before I was a mod when I found something that was offensive or thought it shouldn't be there. I didn't really know where it went, but it goes to an area where the mods can view it and I get an email notification that sends right to my iPhone. I get every single one of them. I stop during the day, while I'm working, take a look and see how bad it is. Most of the time it is justified and we take care of it as quick as the iPhone carrier can help out with.

If you guys don't want to press the red button, that's your choice. There's no rules that state that it's implied you should. If you do, great, we appreciate it and we are grateful. If you don't, I don't look down my nose at anyone because of it. It's a free world and I go about my business. I don't judge based on whether you press the red button or not.

I don't think there's one mod here that sits in front of the desk waiting for someone to post just to see if their content is OK. That's where we ask for your help. If you are there, and we aren't, and the content is questionable, please, do everyone here in this community a favor by hitting the button. It takes one or two seconds, max.

The "tree fiddy" responses IMO have run it's course. The horse is dead and buried. I honestly chuckled for awhile when I first saw it. It's just old and to be honest, I think the people who get told that are quite offended by the response wondering why this site is allowed to reply like that. It's a call that us mods have not really discussed until recently and Mac took the bull by the horns.

What would this site be without the community? And participation in the community? It would be a dead site. I am grateful to be a part of the largest construction forum on the internet and to interact with some of the greatest construction people in the US, Canada, and all the other participating countries. And to be asked to help behind the scenes is an honor, a true honor. I help as much as I can.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Framerman,
Thanks to you and the other mods for volunteering for this pretty thankless job. I know it must be tough making the call in some cases, and in other cases it's pretty obvious.

You guys really *are* appreciated. And to you cynics who might take this as kissing a##, I'm not. What would I have to gain by kissing a## here? Sorry I had to type the previous two sentences, but I see how some of you react sometimes.

I just appreciate that this site is not being neglected in any way as far as content allowed, and that there is some recourse for *every* member if a thread becomes out of line.

Thanks guys!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

There would be no tree-fidy comments, if people were smart enough to realize that people on the internet can't tell you how much to charge. Most of them are people that are pissed because they think they got ripped off.

If you have been in this buisness any amount of time, you should be able to break something down, figure your materials and go through the steps in your mind on how long something is going to take. From those few simple calculations, knowing what it costs you to do buisness and knowing what kind of profit you want/need to make, you can add all parts together and get your number.

It pisses me off when someone justs asks, how much does it cost to replace a switch cover.
Figure it out, I did.
I enjoy the technical side, knowing I can help alert someone for s certain thing to prepare for.
Other than that, I am not your mommy or a hand holder.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Well i dont know how many % of people stay on this forum after the Tree-fiddy posts but if i had had my thread shut down then i would have moved on to another forum. I am now on 1000+ posts and have lernt a lot and feel as if i have been help to others. Just shutting down the how much threads is a bad idea i think. Perhaps you could have an automated response for every thread that has the key words how much in it. Just a nice massage saying the forum is for pro's helping pro's and threads of that nature are band unless you have post count of 100+ or something along them lines.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

With the amount of technology around today can't we just do this.....Any post that has a variation of the words "how much" or "going rate" will automatically be locked and the poster will the receive a Trojan and then a blue screen of death?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Not the blue screen of death!!!


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> There would be no tree-fidy comments, if people were smart enough to realize that people on the internet can't tell you how much to charge. Most of them are people that are pissed because they think they got ripped off.
> 
> If you have been in this buisness any amount of time, you should be able to break something down, figure your materials and go through the steps in your mind on how long something is going to take. From those few simple calculations, knowing what it costs you to do buisness and knowing what kind of profit you want/need to make, you can add all parts together and get your number.


I do not think anyone disagrees with you. 

These days I find the reply "tree-fidy" just as annoying as the pricing questions.

I will be happy to flag any pricing questions as soon as I see them from now on so I do not have to see "tree-fidy" anymore.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

curapa said:


> I do not think anyone disagrees with you.
> 
> These days I find the reply "tree-fidy" just as annoying as the pricing questions.
> 
> I will be happy to flag any pricing questions as soon as I see them from now on so I do not have to see "tree-fidy" anymore.


How about we adjust for inflation and say "tree fidynine"?


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

JumboJack said:


> How about we adjust for inflation and say "tree fidynine"?


With most of the people asking the pricing questions logic, we should be charging only "tree" because of the economy.:no:


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Alright, somebody explain what treefidy means, would ya?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

pinwheel said:


> Alright, somebody explain Tree Fiddy to me, would ya?


It's being phased out so not to worry. However, just use the search feature and be enlightened.


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Well i dont know how many % of people stay on this forum after the Tree-fiddy posts but if i had had my thread shut down then i would have moved on to another forum. I am now on 1000+ posts and have lernt a lot and feel as if i have been help to others. Just shutting down the how much threads is a bad idea i think. Perhaps you could have an automated response for every thread that has the key words how much in it. Just a nice massage saying the forum is for pro's helping pro's and threads of that nature are band unless you have post count of 100+ or something along them lines.


I can go for that


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

:laughing: Depends on who is giving the massage. I don't think I want one from the mods.:laughing:

Maybe from the new avatar we all undoubtedly noticed yesterday in the marketing section though.


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

rselectric1 said:


> Maybe from the new avatar we all undoubtedly noticed yesterday in the marketing section though.



What, this one? :laughing: :laughing:


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## Duck042 (Aug 19, 2008)

angus242 said:


> It's being phased out so not to worry. However, just use the search feature and be enlightened.


Seriously? It was easier to type that sentence than it was to say it was a southpark reference and give the guy a link? 

Here dude, I give you the origin of "Tree-Fiddy":
*1. Southpark episode where Chef's dad kept saying it in reference to story about the loch ness monster (mildly amusing):*
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151219

*2. Used on this site in reply to questions about price by contractors. Three general reasons for this:*

A. Prices vary widely from state to state, and even within a state. A consumer from New York City googling "price per square foot for tile installation" who lands here might be grossly misled by a price from a tiler in rural Kentucky.

B. The price of some jobs depends heavily on details that aren't easily discerned over Al Gore's Internets. 

C. A. and B. aside, even when the consumer is from the same locale as the contractor, and the scope of the job is easily determined, the honest truth is that a lot of contractors don't want consumers to know what their services generally go for. This allows them to make more from uninformed customers. 

Perfect example of C.: my plumber buddy gets 50gal water heaters for around $200, and it takes him under an hour to pull a dead one and install the new one. With his total time, overhead, gas, and disposal, he's more than compensated at $450, and that's what he generally bills. He can even drop that to $350 and still make money for "widows and orphans." 

As if by magic, however, if the customer is in a rich, gated community and doesn't have a handy bone in his body, the price jumps to $800. :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Duck042 said:


> Seriously? It was easier to type that sentence than it was to say it was a southpark reference and give the guy a link?


Well, Mr new moderator, I had no idea it was a South Park reference. :whistling

And I assumed it would be much easier for the guy to_ see _what kind of replies follow a "how much" question.

But thanks for keeping me in line, new guy. I'm sure everyone appreciated your thorough explanation. We are all schooled.


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## Duck042 (Aug 19, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Well, Mr new moderator, I had no idea it was a South Park reference. :whistling
> 
> And I assumed it would be much easier for the guy to_ see _what kind of replies follow a "how much" question.
> 
> But thanks for keeping me in line, new guy. I'm sure everyone appreciated your thorough explanation. We are all schooled.


You're welcome, and thank you for acknowledging my Southpark superiority. :thumbsup:


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

It would be some SH## if we let this thread get out of hand, lets not, thanks GMOD,


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Duck042 said:


> You're welcome, and thank you for acknowledging my Southpark superiority. :thumbsup:


You can have the cartoon superiority. 

However, the actual origin of tree fiddy _on this website_ was from a member who no longer participates. He is from Chicago where people say things like tree fiddy. 

Now, stop calling people a-holes without cause.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

I would be happy to red flag these threads - After I get one post in! :thumbsup: I would appreciate anyone wanting to red flag a thread - call me first so I can get my one post in!:clap:

I also think we should be tolerant of some threads like the little lady who wants to buy her husband a saw for Christmas. These don't bother me there's no harm done and I think there's some good will there. :thumbsup:


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

Or you can just ignore the thread.
No harm no foul.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Duck042 said:


> Seriously? It was easier to type that sentence than it was to say it was a southpark reference and give the guy a link?
> 
> This is just the sort of jackassery the OP was talking about.


Dude, if you mess with repected posters here you might be entering into an area you might wish you didn't. There is nothing wrong with that post. The OP can search the threads related to this and take from it what he needs to.

He could have lectured him, but instead gave him the resources to see for himself.

I think if you push this thread at all, you will be absolutely astonished to see the amount of posters that will come to the defense of Angus.


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## Duck042 (Aug 19, 2008)

angus242 said:


> You can have the cartoon superiority.
> 
> However, the actual origin of tree fiddy _on this website_ was from a member who no longer participates. He is from Chicago where people say things like tree fiddy.
> 
> Now, stop calling people a-holes without cause.


There you go! That explanation comprises the same number of characters as your dismissive post above. The former post pushes people away, this post makes people want to thank you and give you an e-hug! :clap:

And now I feel bad for wounding your inner child. I hereby grant thee a non-a-hole point, which cancels out the previous a-hole count. Now, unless you do, I don't know, dirty deeds for dirt cheap, you will remain non-aholish.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Mellison said:


> Or you can just ignore the thread.
> No harm no foul.


Can I ignore the thread after making treefiddy comments?


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Its all handled guys, thanks, lets just get back on topic, its all good. GMOD


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Duck - you may have ruined this for all of us, the mods are ready to shut this down....


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

...and GMOD makes the save.....:thumbup:


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## Duck042 (Aug 19, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> Dude, if you mess with repected posters here you might be entering into an area you might wish you didn't. There is nothing wrong with that post. The OP can search the threads related to this and take from it what he needs to.
> 
> He could have lectured him, but instead gave him the resources to see for himself.
> 
> I think if you push this thread at all, you will be absolutely astonished to see the amount of posters that will come to the defense of Angus.


I don't know, this is already way more entertaining than I expected. :laughing:


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Duck042 said:


> I don't know, this is already way more entertaining than I expected. :laughing:


 
It gets better, i'm about to call for a GROUP HUG:whistling,GMOD


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

genecarp said:


> It gets better, i'm about to call for a GROUP HUG:whistling,GMOD


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Another winner on board. :whistling

I do solemnly promise to not mention tree fiddy ever again. I'll leave that for Mark :laughing:

I think I'm gonna like the lil red button, though. :shifty:


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## Duck042 (Aug 19, 2008)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> I also think we should be tolerant of some threads like the little lady who wants to buy her husband a saw for Christmas. These don't bother me there's no harm done and I think there's some good will there. :thumbsup:


I would even take that further. If the question is easily answered, why not just answer it? :001_tongue: You spread some goodwill by showing that not all contractors are out to rip people off and, might get some business from it by showing you're competent and honest.

For example, there's a good thread in the Drywall section right now among some Canadians comparing prices. It's helping them figure out what's being charged, it's helping those in other trades know what that part of the job costs, and it's helping consumers coming to this site to get educated. Win/win/win in my book.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Duck042 said:


> I would even take that further. If the question is easily answered, why not just answer it? :001_tongue: You spread some goodwill by showing that not all contractors are out to rip people off and, might get some business from it by showing you're competent and honest.
> 
> For example, there's a good thread in the Drywall section right now among some Canadians comparing prices. It's helping them figure out what's being charged, it's helping those in other trades know what that part of the job costs, and it's helping consumers coming to this site to get educated. Win/win/win in my book.


WE HAVE a sister site for DIY posters, AKA homeowners, many of the guys frequent that site and spread the goodwill. This site is for, and will always be for proffesionals only. GMOD


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Duck042 said:


> I would even take that further. If the question is easily answered, why not just answer it? :001_tongue: You spread some goodwill by showing that not all contractors are out to rip people off and, might get some business from it by showing you're competent and honest.
> 
> For example, there's a good thread in the Drywall section right now among some Canadians comparing prices. It's helping them figure out what's being charged, it's helping those in other trades know what that part of the job costs, and it's helping consumers coming to this site to get educated. Win/win/win in my book.


You are too new. Your suggested has been tried many times and more than not, it fails miserably. 

It should be obvious since a moderator started this thread and asked the members to just flag any "how much" threads. How much doesn't work here for many reasons. lose/lose/lose is what ends up happening.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Duck042 said:


> I would even take that further. If the question is easily answered, why not just answer it? :001_tongue: You spread some goodwill by showing that not all contractors are out to rip people off and, might get some business from it by showing you're competent and honest.
> 
> For example, there's a good thread in the Drywall section right now among some Canadians comparing prices. It's helping them figure out what's being charged, it's helping those in other trades know what that part of the job costs, and it's helping consumers coming to this site to get educated. Win/win/win in my book.


That's a different subject altogether. This thread has derailed and gene (in case you didn't notice is a mod) is trying to put it back together and keep it on track. As he said before"back to the subject".

If you want to push this even further, IM me. Let's keep this crap off the board.


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

well its almost a new year, so three fiddy is just not enough!

how about three sixty five? costs have gone up!


hehe


ok, 

no more of that!


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

*RIP mickeyco & treefiddy*

*You will both be missed, but not soon forgotten *


South Park - give me a flipping break :laughing:


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

angus242 said:


> You can have the cartoon superiority.
> 
> However, the actual origin of tree fiddy _on this website_ was from a member who no longer participates. He is from Chicago where people say things like tree fiddy.
> 
> Now, stop calling people *a-holes without cause*.


Wasn't that a movie?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

JumboJack said:


> Wasn't that a movie?



Yes, I starred in it! :whistling


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Yes, I starred in it! :whistling


And you were nice enough to make a cameo in the USG commercial!:laughing:


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

The biggest problem with "how much ?" questions is in IMO, this forum will get over run with those kinds of questions. Especially if the people asking those questions have 1 or 2 posts...

If posters who have been with the forum for years, want to discuss prices openly, so be it. I have yet to see it, and I'm thankful for it. Its way too personal.

We had a thread asking what we charge for overhead and profit. That's probably a slightly more innocent version of "how much" that got past the moderators at first. They eventually put a lid on it, after some of us (yes, me included :whistling) lost our cool on what proper markups should be. 

I noticed Angus wasn't posting as much lately, was afraid my rants on O&P scared him off. Glad to see him back on.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

NormW said:


> I noticed Angus wasn't posting as much lately, was afraid my rants on O&P scared him off. Glad to see him back on.


Nah, I just get ignored pretty easily :laughing:

I actually been posting a lot over the past few months. Been trying to keep up with RS who is going to pass me up in the next month! :notworthy


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> And you were nice enough to make a cameo in the USG commercial!:laughing:


Just like we were saying in that thread about marketing yourself, when things get slow, reinvent yourself.

Wait til you see my next appearance! :shifty:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Nah, I just get ignored pretty easily :laughing:
> 
> I actually been posting a lot over the past few months. Been trying to keep up with RS who is going to pass me up in the next month! :notworthy


I dont think anything anyone here can scare Angus off. He is thick skinned and able to fend for himself.

Angus, I might pass you up in post count in the next month, but who cares. Your posts are deep, meaningful, and full of valid information. Half of mine are one liners.

Post counts mean nothing to me. It's what's in them that counts.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Your posts are deep, meaningful, and full of valid information.


There are a few 'round here that would disagree with that :whistling:jester:


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## Duck042 (Aug 19, 2008)

genecarp said:


> WE HAVE a sister site for DIY posters, AKA homeowners, many of the guys frequent that site and spread the goodwill. This site is for, and will always be for proffesionals only. GMOD


True, and it's a really nice site, but it's entirely constrained to tactical project questions. There's no section there for pricing questions. 

In fact, I just did a search for pricing questions - very few and the ones there just go unanswered. By not having a forum where those questions can get answered on the DIY site, you're tacitly encouraging folks to come here for answers.

If the whole point of the Tree Fiddy hostility is because nobody wants HOs coming here and asking questions like that, why not give them a forum section (there or here) where an anonymous HO can log in and ask a pricing question?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

rselectric1 said:


> I dont think anything anyone here can scare Angus off. He is thick skinned and able to fend for himself.
> 
> Angus, I might pass you up in post count in the next month, but who cares. Your posts are deep, meaningful, and full of valid information. Half of mine are one liners.
> 
> Post counts mean nothing to me. It's what's in them that counts.


Something is deep....
not sure how meaningful,
but it's gooey. :laughing:


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

Duck042 said:


> There was about 3x more entertainment in this thread than I anticipated, how's that for underestimating? :clap::clap::clap:
> 
> To be honest, I don't think it matters if you give pricing up here or not, there are enough ways for consumers to find that information that this would just be another data point anyway.
> 
> ...


 
You're gonna trust some propaganda from the BBB??

Yes, there are "contractors" out there that steal, over charge, whatever, they are called hacks and con artists. 
Unfortunately, they exist in every industry


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> its about 12 out with consistant 30 mph winds.
> 
> I need to take my trailer and pick up some materials but, I fear being blown off the road.


I gave up on being
outdoorsy for today. :blink:


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Duck042 said:


> I don't know what you do, and if you don't do that, then don't get your panties in a bunch about it. But if that's not you, at least be honest enough to admit that you know full well there are a lot of guys who do exactly that. The general public knows it too.
> :whistling


Ahhh... the ever popular "Oh, I wasn't talking about YOU..." defense. Who is this "general public" of which you speak, and how do you come to be their spokesperson? 



Duck042 said:


> If it's "total BS," why do you think so many people have that impression? :whistling


Why do they have what impression? Another logic fallacy. You assume the public has a certain perception about contractors and pricing--and then ask me to explain why. Garbage.

"Don't you care about your industry????", he scolds. You're just pushing buttons hoping to get a rise out of someone. Another hallmark of a weak argument.

Your link about PART of a consumer confidence survey (of only 1000 people) doesn't support your assumptions. The BBB is showing a snapshot of the survey to support their article and the efficacy their program. Did you even read past the part you hoped would prove your point? It's an article about CRIMINAL activity. 

So here's a jump-to-conclusions question I'll ask you: Since you seem to be making a connection between unscrupulous contractors and those of us who don't post pricing in the forum, are you saying we are unscrupulous?


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

ChrWright said:


> Ahhh... the ever popular "Oh, I wasn't talking about YOU..." defense. *Who is this "general public" of which you speak, and how do you come to be their spokesperson? *


That just may become my new signature...:laughing:


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

Ducky,

I'm not sure us answering how much questions, is going to help public perception of our profession. Car Salesman post there prices, plus there is Blue book, green book, and BS book. Does not help there standing in the community. Can you guess why?

I don't think pricing is what causes people to mistrust Us. IMO the biggest problem we have is a lack of communication. Number One way to solve that IMO, is using fair contracts, and keeping the customer up to date with change orders. I'm not talking prices either, whenever there are any changes from the contract, it should be put in writing and signed by the Homeowner; time frame, and changes in scope/specs along with price.

I suspect that a lot of times, the homeowner is as guilty as the contractor. Its a two way street, and without a good contract thats kept up to date, Its easy for homeowners to "feel cheated" suddenly at final payment time. We have a bad rap, and we are easily taken advantage of. Price gouging I doubt is high on the HO list of complaints.

Before I was in the trades I shared an apartment with my cousin. He is a drywall and painting contractor. He loathed when other contractors would ask what he bidded, he would be angry for days.

Years later I worked Sales at a lumberyard. We did a lot of in-house estimating, mostly material take-offs. Because of this, we got to talk pricing with many contractors. I think many people would be shocked if they new how varied contractors are in there pricing. I will say that in commercial, and production type jobs, pricing is more competitive and hence a bit tighter. When you start talking to "custom" builders, and guys who are selling something beyond a commodity, prices accelerate.

Honestly, I could type for days on this thread and not hit all the complications about answering "how-much". There are a couple of good reasons to answer them, but there are endless reasons not to. 

Also, quite honestly, I for one, have no more idea, then the guy asking. I have to go through the "how much" myself every time I price a job. I have a feel for it now, but I'm never dead certain, and always worried that I'm charging too much, or leaving something on the table.

There are many sly ways to find what other people are charging, I'm glad this forum is not one of them.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I didn't follow this thread, and now I understand there are a few bruised participants. So, after reading the grist from the last 3 pages, I certainly have seen enough, and as a last warning, if you can't at least be civil in the open forum, then heat up the PM's....no point in trashing the membership. 

I have seen all I need to know this one is now closed, and no more "tree fiddy" threads, ever!


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