# Sherwin williams complaints



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Do you guys ever have issues with SW and prices changing every time you buy stuff. Not just going up in price but going down sometimes to. 

I just got into a big argument with the manager because a month ago he gave me "special" prices on my account if I moved my account to his store. 

He gave me prices and I was typing them in on my phone as he was saying them and he wrote them down to. He let me take that list home and I transferred it to my PC. Well I priced 3 jobs based on his pricing and already got one. One of the others is a big job about 32k SQFT if walls. 

He gave me the price and it was about 10% more than he told me the last time. Prices had not changed then he tells me I'm wrong! I know full well I was not so asked him for the prices of the other stuff. All of them were different. so I told him they are gonna have to eat the difference on the next job. He then said he would never give anyone that kind if pricing I had. 

Shame I threw away the paperwork he wrote the prices on. But I knew I was right as I had it in 2 forms. Then I ask him again if this primer I bought is the same as killz2 or better. He tells me its 2 above killz2. I'm about to blow my top as last time I went in there he clearly bullcraped me into believe what he was saying to get me to switch my account over. I then start to talk down to me in front of a shop full of contractors. He then says I don't know what I'm talking about as I'm not a painter! Lol at this point I couldn't hold it in anymore. I told him he was a dickhead and I won't be spending another penny in that store. 

So have you guys ever had this problem. I gonna have to eat an almost $700 difference in price on this job because of their fault.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Did you include tax?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> Did you include tax?


Both his prices I had were before tax. Plus our tax is only 5% so that def not were the price issue is.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Not specifically the deception problem you described, but yes problems with pricing for sure. My painter and I have started to just boycott SW. When we get a spec for a SW paint – we do a color match for Ben Moore – automatically.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Not specifically the deception problem you described, but yes problems with pricing for sure. My painter and I have started to just boycott SW. When we get a spec for a SW paint &#150; we do a color match for Ben Moore &#150; automatically.


It's impossible for me to be accurate with my quotes which is what pisses me off. I don't care adding 10% more but I need to make sure this 10% ain't coming out my pocket.

I might give BM a go.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

I had problems also with there sales people .They don't seem to stay on prices for me as well . With in a 3 -5 mouth period just keep going up . Even thow the said no we give you contractor price . I left them and buy at big box stores or my supply house .


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## j_sims (Jul 5, 2007)

I USE to be 100% SW...but our local store seems to be getting more into the "bigbox" format of doing business. Use to be If I had a question about a product or technique I could go into SW and know they would have an answer.

They don't have the caliber employees they use to. Our store use to have 2 or 3 retired or semi-retired painters working behind the counter. Now it's a bunch of kids that wouldn't know alkyd from a doorknob, unless it was covered in their two week training session. 

I liken this to the automotive supply houses you USE to be able to go in and more than likely there would be a mechanic or retired mechanic working the counter. Now if its not on the computer they are stumped.:1eye:
Again I get off topic and ranting......

Yes, I have noticed customer service falling off not to mention some of the product line and I am looking more at BM and *some* product lines at Kelly-Moore. The jury is still out on KM...although our local store does employee some painters that I knew from a while back.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

I know that Sherwin Williams has numerous product levels of paint, each with it's own price level. It can be very confusing and frustrating. Years ago I had a come to jesus meeting with my location's manager and we've been fine ever since.

You might want to try talking with this guy one on one without the onlookers. It may help you both think a little straighter.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Creter said:


> I know that Sherwin Williams has numerous product levels of paint, each with it's own price level. It can be very confusing and frustrating. Years ago I had a come to jesus meeting with my location's manager and we've been fine ever since.
> 
> You might want to try talking with this guy one on one without the onlookers. It may help you both think a little straighter.


Already had that chat with him after a customer come back one day with the same paint I use for about 20% less than in pay. This is when he moved my account to his store and gave me DX pricing whatever the hell that is.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> gave me DX pricing whatever the hell that is.


Did he crotch chop you too? (sorry, wrestling fans will get that)

Well that sucks. This guy sounds like most in that he's looking for the dollar today rather than tomorrow or next week.

By that I mean the future earnings from you alone would be well worth him getting his head out of his arse and thinking hmmm...

Discounted price over time equals more money than pissing this guy off and no paint sold.

Unfortunately he's probably not going to see it that way.

Maybe walk into Porter or whomever else you have into town, ask for the head fella in charge and have a talk with them. Mention that you don't paint full time but when you do, you will be 100% loyal to the store if his pricing stays in line etc.

Good luck, I've been in a few situations where the original materials priced out was more when it came time to do the job. Regarding the lost paper he wrote on. Take pictures of that stuff with your phone for that kinda stuff. Far easier to throw a piece of paper away than to remove a picture from your phone in my opinion.


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## PPRI (Oct 9, 2010)

I don't even mess with SW anymore. I got the run around on pricing and had a lot of inferior product. I returned more buckets of primer than I would have ever imagined because they absolutely would not spray. They blamed my equipment till I took my sprayer in and showed them what was happening.


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## barry1219 (Oct 8, 2011)

I just bought 45 gallons of Pro-Mar200 Eggshell Interior for a job in May..I need 5 gallons of Pro-Mar200 Eggshell for another job..called a store 11 miles from the other one I bought the 45 at..23% more!...I hate having to ask for discounts..it makes me feel cheap..if I get a discount for being a builder why should I have to explain it from store to store if they are all branches of the same tree?..


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Not specifically the deception problem you described, but yes problems with pricing for sure. My painter and I have started to just boycott SW. When we get a spec for a SW paint – we do a color match for Ben Moore – automatically.



I'm in the habit of color-matching BM to SW in order to save money. I don't know enough about the contractor pricing at BM, but one BM store told me their account discount is 10% across the board. I find it hard to believe, so just wondering if you guys know if they do have tiers based on volume. Maybe it's a store-by-store thing.

As for service, depends on the store around here. Last week I was in a rush for couple extra gallons, but marched out of the SW close to the job in order to drive further to my regular SW. I got ticked when the young counter woman interrupted my order to answer the phone (then lengthy customer paint chat) when there were others that could have taken the call. And right after she hung up, no "sorry", but instead started yakking with the guy behind me instead of jumping on my order. 

I did notice that a couple paint crews that I know have different account pricing for the same paint. I just figure it's based on their volume, but they're both busy crews.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

There is always a better coupon available for SW that's not compatible with a contractor account...bs..


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> There is always a better coupon available for SW that's not compatible with a contractor account...bs..


You're right about that!

Anybody also use a separate "personal" account for the sales? Do they give you a hassle if they know you're a contractor?


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

I've always like my Ben Moore supplier better than SW. Are the SW stores independently owned? The guys at my store know their stuff and have always taken care of us, one time a product (2 part epoxy) had color issues which was deemed to be from the product being faulty. They not only gave me the new stuff they also paid my labor for the extra application. I attribute that kind of service to dealing with a company that is comparable to my local hardware store vs. a big box store.


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## painter213 (Nov 2, 2008)

Instead of dealing with a person behind a counter, if your a professional painter then you should be dealing with a outside sales rep. and not a store manager behind a counter. A outside rep will give you pricing and stick to it on a per job basis. When I was contracting I always used my sales rep. I would look at a job, figure how much I needed, give him a call and get pricing. If I got the job, then I would call him and place the order and then go by the local store and picked it up. Never had a problem.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

painter213 said:


> Instead of dealing with a person behind a counter, if your a professional painter then you should be dealing with a outside sales rep. and not a store manager behind a counter. A outside rep will give you pricing and stick to it on a per job basis. When I was contracting I always used my sales rep. I would look at a job, figure how much I needed, give him a call and get pricing. If I got the job, then I would call him and place the order and then go by the local store and picked it up. Never had a problem.


Yeah, but it shouldn't have to be that way. Sometimes guys are busy and need a gallon or two to finish a job. Why in the world should they have to fight for pricing every time they go in the joint? This isn't the first SW thread where this stuff has come up. 

I don't know why they can't have set discounts for you painters. A huge customer? OK, maybe get a little extra off. But to have different pricing from one store to the other, is just nuts. :blink:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I hate SW, hate that place. Plus their paint isn't any thing special. 

I buy all my paints, stains, finishes, supplies, etc. from the small mom and pop paint store here in town. 

Their paint is awesome, service is awesome, great supplies and great prices. 

I have grown to hate large chain/franchise type stores.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I tried to us a coupon when I was in there. It expired 2 days after they sent it. But it was a 20% of contractors discount. Problem was I got it on a sat morning and it expired by Monday so I could only use it on the saturday :blink: I guess they know this so that's why they send them so you get them at the weekend. 

He did call me back this afternoon and apologized. Said that they will figure something out for the bigger job if I get it. He kind of admitted he may have given me a promotional price by accident. But he explained what DX pricing is. It's bascily variable pricing and if big box stores reduce the cost of their paint or increase it then their pricing automatically adjusts. 

I am returning the primer I got today though. I got six cans of that premium wood primer that's a **** load of money a can. Expected great results. Well that's about as far from the truth as it comes. I was like painting on hot tar. It was so stupidly thick it wouldn't even brush on. I called and moaned about it and he said thin it with 10% water and for some reason this made it even worse. Some of the most awful bursh marks I have ever seen from a primer. It was like it had almost zero self leveling properties. Unlike the pro classic which levels out like glass when using a brush.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Bought my sprayer at sw store. They wanted $680. I said make it happen for 700 & they did. I promised to return the favor (as i was in a pinch) and use their primer to cover some graffiti.

They gave me a 5 gal & i bought one. $150...ouch. While there i tried to get an account. Denied.

1 week later there calling me asking if there is anything i use daily that they should stock... I said yeah, a credit account.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Driftweed said:


> Bought my sprayer at sw store. They wanted $680. I said make it happen for 700 & they did. I promised to return the favor (as i was in a pinch) and use their primer to cover some graffiti.
> 
> They gave me a 5 gal & i bought one. $150...ouch. While there i tried to get an account. Denied.
> 
> 1 week later there calling me asking if there is anything i use daily that they should stock... I said yeah, a credit account.


They asked $680 and you said you won’t pay less than $700! Mr. Negotiator you are :whistling


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

After taxes. It woulda been 730 after all said and done. All I had was 700.

Win.

Gotta look at the forest not the trees.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

I always call them and make the deal. Too many ears in the stores. I always talk them down, I think tats the way they are set up….not to lose a sale but try for the best margin until the customer cpomplains. Its like buying rice in India.


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## KDPaintingCT (Aug 8, 2013)

Their prices are very consistent across the board for the most part if you have a contractor account at least..We have been using SW for a while and haven't had issues with pricing.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

KDPaintingCT said:


> Their prices are very consistent across the board for the most part if you have a contractor account at least..We have been using SW for a while and haven't had issues with pricing.


Whatevs...:no:


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

I feel so much better about not using Sherwin Williams, sounds like going in to work a deal with a car salesman for every gallon of paint.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

SuperiorHIP said:


> I feel so much better about not using Sherwin Williams, sounds like going in to work a deal with a car salesman for every gallon of paint.


Couldn't have said it better myself! 

That's exactly how it's gotten at my store.... 

I haven't been in there in months. Sometimes go to our BM store, but it's not much different.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

In the past I, and another painter mentioned how the price of a gallon of paint would change even when purchased on the same day! They had some crazy reasoning.

I know I could complain about one or two things but now and for the last few years they have consistent pricing and I only use their higher end products which I think are excellent.


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

I don't deal with SW so I really have no input into the pricing changes but what I'm thinking is from the original quote that BC was given is for a white or pastel base paint and not for a deep base? I really don't know what color he is using or how they charge in the US but in Canada prices per gallon or should I say 3.78 liters depends on the base.


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## Derek1157 (Dec 21, 2012)

My SW store used to be great. The management would bend over backwards to get pricing and remain consistent. They were locals who had the small town attitude to help out contractors. SWP had 5 price increases between end of 2011 through 2012. The prices are so different from where they were 5 years ago, it's ridiculous! I understand some increase, but it's getting harder and harder for small fish to compete. 

Here's the price structure at SWP and how much annually you have to spend to get that code:

Preferred customer = %10 across the board (DIY ONLY)

Price code A = 10-12% off 500-2500

Code B = 10-15% 2500-5k

Code C = 12-18% 5k-25k

Code D = 15-20% 25k-100k

Code E = 20-25% 100k+

They also give price exceptions. For example, if you are at price code A, but use a lot of a specific product, they can give you price code B or C for that product. To give an exception for price codes D or E, requires district manager approval (store manager's boss).

They're filling more and more stores with these MTP(manager trainee personell) people from college because they can do better math than someone who's been climbing the ladder from the bottom:laughing:
They are taught to give certain answers to questions, but have no personal knowledge of what they're saying.

SWP stores cannot be owned independently. They are a corporation with many other corporations and businesses owned under them(i.e Purdy). Prices are set by people at the top. They recently lowered the number of hours part-timers are allowed to work each week from 32 to 28, so that they don't have to provide health benefits under the new federal laws. Employees are nothing more than a name on a folder to anyone from manager on up the ladder. More and more of the Mom & Pop type of service is disappearing at SWP. It's a shame.... 

I used to be solely SWP buyer. Moving on to BM.


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## Rbnsb5 (May 5, 2013)

I would talk with a Sherwin sales rep. They've helped me get a much lower price on materials, than say the store manager can offer me. Make sure they "lock" that price in. If its different when you buy paint in the future don't let it slide. They usually fix it. Another option is to get a comparable product priced elsewhere (glidden, Pittsburgh, Ben Moore wherever). Tell Sherwin that you're getting a better deal elsewhere. That almost always works. They don't want to lose your business. That's been my experience anyway.


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## Rbnsb5 (May 5, 2013)

BCConstruction said:


> It's impossible for me to be accurate with my quotes which is what pisses me off. I don't care adding 10% more but I need to make sure this 10% ain't coming out my pocket.
> 
> I might give BM a go.


If you use BM, use the Grandin road store. They won't mess the colors up and you'll get a 10% discount for setting up an account. Real easy to deal with. Which Sherwin do you normally use?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Rbnsb5 said:


> If you use BM, use the Grandin road store. They won't mess the colors up and you'll get a 10% discount for setting up an account. Real easy to deal with. Which Sherwin do you normally use?


I use the Williamson road one now. Been testing out all their primers and their top line paints and so far I'm impressed except for the premium wall and wood. It's so dam thick it just won't spread well. I dropped down to the preprite and its much better. Bit cheaper too.


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

Why not simply reduce wall and wood with a little water? I like being able to reduce paints, you get more for your money this way and when you need full build you can go with it straight up.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

JHC said:


> Why not simply reduce wall and wood with a little water? I like being able to reduce paints, you get more for your money this way and when you need full build you can go with it straight up.


Tried that. They said not to thin anymore than 10% with water and after that use flotrol. That ends up being an expensive primer after all of that. I tried the 10% and it made the finish worse but it def thined it out a bit. 

Here's some pics I took.

First 3 are the premium primer and the last one is the preprite. There's a massive difference how they look.


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## Rbnsb5 (May 5, 2013)

This may be a stupid question but are you spraying or brushing or a bit of both?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Rbnsb5 said:


> This may be a stupid question but are you spraying or brushing or a bit of both?


Brushing. My HVLP is too much hassle for the few amount of doors I have to do and i cant be arsed to go get the airless from the warehouse with the preprite and pro classic it comes out like glass ones it levels out.


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## Rbnsb5 (May 5, 2013)

Ok. I always found that I had to babysit the pro classic as it always wanted to sag or run. No matter how thin I lay it on. In the future switch to a product from Pittsburgh called "breakthrough" we used to use nothing but pro classic (like 15-20 gallons per build) now we only use breakthrough. We love it. Give it a try, I think you'll switch once you do.


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## Bearded Wonder (Jan 21, 2011)

Dang. You're a long way from where I live but you summed up my local SW perfectly. Manager that used to be there was freaking awesome, and knew everything about every product they sold. Not just reciting BS from the brochure, but actual knowledge from going to jobs and seeing what worked and what didn't, and talking with the painters who used the products, etc. The service under him was incredible too. After he quit 3-4 years ago, it took a nosedive. Been a steady turnover of uninterested, unmotivated, ignorant of their products, wheels off schmoes working there ever since. Just last week I went in at 5:50 to get a gallon of paint, and was told that it "would take longer than ten minutes, and we close at 6:00, so come back tomorrow. 

Hello, Kelly Moore... (Their only competitor in town besides blows and depot)


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

quoted 188.00 for 5 gal latex kilz…bought at home depot for 76.81


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## Rbnsb5 (May 5, 2013)

ClaytonR said:


> Dang. You're a long way from where I live but you summed up my local SW perfectly. Manager that used to be there was freaking awesome, and knew everything about every product they sold. Not just reciting BS from the brochure, but actual knowledge from going to jobs and seeing what worked and what didn't, and talking with the painters who used the products, etc. The service under him was incredible too. After he quit 3-4 years ago, it took a nosedive. Been a steady turnover of uninterested, unmotivated, ignorant of their products, wheels off schmoes working there ever since. Just last week I went in at 5:50 to get a gallon of paint, and was told that it "would take longer than ten minutes, and we close at 6:00, so come back tomorrow.
> 
> Hello, Kelly Moore... (Their only competitor in town besides blows and depot)


Couldn't agree more. I get the same deal here. I've been told they make enough markup off HO to keep em in the black. I don't know if its true though. But their attitude leads me to believe this is true. Too many pissed off contractors, and painters. Not to mention they have a whole DIY line of paint now. I miss the old days where you could get a strait answer from someone who knew what they were talking about. There are a few good guys still working behind the counter, but too few indeed.


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## Derek1157 (Dec 21, 2012)

ClaytonR said:


> Dang. You're a long way from where I live but you summed up my local SW perfectly. Manager that used to be there was freaking awesome, and knew everything about every product they sold. Not just reciting BS from the brochure, but actual knowledge from going to jobs and seeing what worked and what didn't, and talking with the painters who used the products, etc. The service under him was incredible too. After he quit 3-4 years ago, it took a nosedive. Been a steady turnover of uninterested, unmotivated, ignorant of their products, wheels off schmoes working there ever since. Just last week I went in at 5:50 to get a gallon of paint, and was told that it "would take longer than ten minutes, and we close at 6:00, so come back tomorrow.
> 
> Hello, Kelly Moore... (Their only competitor in town besides blows and depot)


Yeah, our Sales rep is crap too. My store is on the outskirts of a large district. About 25 stores, but most of them are in or close to the greater metro area of Portland, OR. This store was only assigned 1 rep and it just kind of got thrown onto the bottom of his list, so he hardly ever visits because he's got bigger fish to fry. 

5 years ago, this store was immaculate. The manager had this place running like a military installation. His employees respected him and wanted to learn more. He rewarded employees for doing well. He was able to balance his corporate obligations while still having a soul and treating employees and customers like people.


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## mattsk8 (Dec 6, 2009)

j_sims said:


> I USE to be 100% SW...but our local store seems to be getting more into the "bigbox" format of doing business. Use to be If I had a question about a product or technique I could go into SW and know they would have an answer.
> 
> They don't have the caliber employees they use to. Our store use to have 2 or 3 retired or semi-retired painters working behind the counter. Now it's a bunch of kids that wouldn't know alkyd from a doorknob, unless it was covered in their two week training session.
> 
> ...


This is a problem at all the paint stores here. I used to get all my paint from Seven's Paint here (Ben Moore, Graham, Old Masters, etc). I went in and asked the employees some questions about gel stain and they (all) didn't have an answer. Painting and staining isn't even my main business, its a necessary evil to me. But its pretty pathetic when I know more about the crap they sell than they do.

I will say the sprayer technician at Seven's here knows his business; but aside from that they all just seem to be selling paint.

This is the future, and I blame it on Lowes, HD, Walmart, etc. Specialty paint stores can't pay the wages they used to because they have to compete w/ HD selling their Behr 'premium' or Lowes Valspar (does that stuff ever dry???).

I've given up the accounts. I just go in and beat them up on their prices now whenever I need paint or stain. I have cash accounts, which is kind of a pain but at least now I know when I'm going to get raped.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

mattsk8 said:


> This is the future, and I blame it on Lowes, HD, Walmart, etc. Specialty paint stores can't pay the wages they used to because they have to compete w/ HD selling their Behr 'premium' or Lowes Valspar (does that stuff ever dry???).


Lol no it don't. I can't speak for Valspar but the 5-6x I have used Behr it has never dried. It stays tacky for months. I don't a living room for a customer last November and I went to his place to look at some more work. As I lent around the corner to check out the room I did before I put my hand on the wall and as I pulled it away it was still tacky. My front door after 2 years has only just stopped being tacky! The SW paint I just put on an hour ago feels fully dry to the touch already. I won't buy that Behr crap ever again.


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

Probably just wanting to make sure the paint lines flow out....


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> Tried that. They said not to thin anymore than 10% with water and after that use flotrol. That ends up being an expensive primer after all of that. I tried the 10% and it made the finish worse but it def thined it out a bit.
> 
> Here's some pics I took.
> 
> First 3 are the premium primer and the last one is the preprite. There's a massive difference how they look.


You are right it isn't easy to brush and sets up really quickly. Not being a full time experienced pro painter I could see it causing issues like that.


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