# Bilco Install with block issues. ?s



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

ok guys, this is for a customer we've worked for in the past, small job but I don't want to turn down a little fill in job. The current bilco is shot, and installed over a block foundation wall. 

The H.O. has told me during the winter months occasionally, the top two courses of block, especially towards outside wall (near the top of the steps) separate from the rest of the block below. by like 3/4" of an inch or more. The sides don't lift as much. I gave him a price just for me to install the door, and told him that in my opinion the top two courses should be removed, which means digging down outside a few feet to remove those top two courses. 

They are selling the house and need it done soon, but my mason I use is really busy. 

I'm not looking to cheap out in anyway, just looking for some alternative solution. I'm not a mason, so maybe you guys who do this everyday can give me another idea that would work to keep these top courses from separating in the winter. I don't know what is lifting them up other than frost but what is the frost grabbing onto that it's lifting it that much. I will check to see if they somehow pinned the little pad at the top of steps outside into the block and maybe that is causing it. 

I had the idea that we could cut out a few holes in the top course, and install 
some SS all thread down several courses below the ones which lift. Fill the that up with new concrete. Then once it hardens we can anchor down the top courses with a large washer and nut. I know it might not be the best solution but it was just a thought I had, so we wouldn't have to dig up the outside.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Bump. :whistling


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

They selling the house, so it is up to them how much they're willing to spend on repair. I would assume as cheap as possible because they don't care how you fix it and how long it will last.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

They want it fixed right, and haven't used any of the cheap as possible words. The only fixed price I would give them was the removal and install of the new bilco. The block work etc is all extra because I don't know how long it's going to take for the mason to fix it.

I was looking for a way to fix it myself without waiting for him. They signed my contract back in the winter but the snow and cold kept it from being a good job to do. I didn't want the new mortar to freeze overnight.

I thought there might be a way to anchor the top courses from lifting without removing them completely and installing new block.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Yea Dan, check for a frost footing under the top step - either lifting up there or maybe frozen hard soil pack around the perimeter locking into weeping mortar joints,etc...

Usually the block walls for bilco's are nothing but problems - never really constructed right with proper drainage and too many forces at work here.

Your idea is good with pinning and grouting -might want to backfill with some drainage rock and correct any grade issues while your at it.

Bolt on monolith concrete steps/walls are the only way to go with Bilco's.

And be clear to him on warranty - or lack there of :laughing:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

No warranty for the block work. I was thinking of a large SS washer at the bottom of the all thread, my only concern is having a bolt sticking up where you would have to step over. maybe have to bury it in the top course and mud the whole all thread. When it all sets up, it'll be tied together The grade is actually good, the HO added some dirt around the house a few years ago he told me and it's sloped away from the house. I believe the top slab that is cracked anyways just in front of the bilco is the culprit. I just hope the all the courses aren't solid at the top, or my plan to anchor it, is out the window.

i agree, the preformed ones are the only way to go. I am going to rip my own steps and block out because it leaks at my own house. I don't know why they are always done half assed instead of being just like the foundation with waterproofing etc outside.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Another quick fix, although crude, is to dig the perimeter 6" wide x 3ft deep and just pour concrete...drill some holes from inside the bulk head and slide some bar through to anchor everything together. Wet set some bar to tie the concrete together in 12" lifts as you pour. A little parge coat over the inside would clean it up nice. 

You putting in a PT sill or anything - maybe you hide the bolt and washer there. Non the less, burying it in cement also works


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

you could come and help. it's in Ewing, NJ. not an area I normally work for but I've known this customer for a long time. how close to the NJ border are you?


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

What is on the outside, that you don't want to dig it up?
That would be the first thing I would do, to identify the problem.

Are the side walls flat or angled?
Are they capped with 4's or PT?

Won't you have to pull that up to grout the cells?
At that point you may as well just tear it out at the crack and be done with it.

With all the pinning and so forth, It will still, probably leak at the crack.
Why put a new Bilco on a bad foundation?

If they are not quibbeling over the cost. Do it right.

Maybe, SS or some other mason could help out.
If you had it all preped, it could be knocked out in a day.

D.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Diamond D. said:


> What is on the outside, that you don't want to dig it up?
> That would be the first thing I would do, to identify the problem.
> 
> Are the side walls flat or angled?
> ...


The outside has been graded and seeded not that long ago, so I was looking for alternatives to making a muddy mess there. It's not capped with 4's it's 8's on the top course. I was going to cut a hole in the top of the 8's. just an idea. 

The problem is most likely the cracked slab that is just at the top of the steps, it might be connected somehow below the surface to the top block.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Dan, Just outside phila international airport - Delaware County Pa.
Where's Ewing NJ...never heard of it.

Scheduling could be a problem as I just signed a monster job from last Dec. 
and start in about 2 weeks. 

This time last year it was so slow I wouldn't even think twice about. Hope your busy as well!


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