# Just WRONG



## CPlumb (Jan 17, 2008)

Got a pet peeve ,,, see what you(s) think ,,

MASSIVE rain , areas reported 7-9 " over a few day period . Sump pump heaven for us plumbers .

I charge $450 for a sump pump ( Zoeller M-53 ) and check valve . I don't charge overtime and I REFUSE to charge emergency rates ,,, Folks are upset enough ,, they will remember a good thing and pass it on .

Anyway , we all had many sump calls . Sure some guys were charging a little more then their norm and that's their business . We had one guy running around BRAGGING HOW HE WAS TAKING FOLKS IN NEED FOR $ 1,200 TO CHANGE ONE OUT !!!! 
That just pisses me off !! Give us ALL a bad name , screw people in their time of need ,, and then RUN YOUR MOUTH ?? !!

Sorry ,, I can't do it .

Thought?

Cal


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

one day when the powers goes out, he will end paying 1500 for a generator, while you will pay 500, in other words, he will get his!!!


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*I charge a slight bit more, but that might just be my area, I use the M-57..I just think the CI housing looks more impressive & disperses heat faster than plastic.*
*$1,200 for an m-53, with pit and discharge already in place is rough.*
*This is why so many people automatically assume our prices are high regardless how low we are.*
*The opposite extreme, hacks that underbid to get work and wind up cutting dangerous corners.*
*There are extremes to everything.*


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

When you say sump pump you are referring to a pump in an open pit used to remove ground water or rain water run off and not a sewage ejector correct?
I do not see many "sump pumps" but see many sewage ejectors in sealed pits and I do not hesitate to charge $980 (a good pump will cost me $300 +) and routinely upgrade them for an additional $269 for the better pump controller with alarm.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

smellslike$tome said:


> When you say sump pump you are referring to a pump in an open pit used to remove ground water or rain water run off and not a sewage ejector correct?
> I do not see many "sump pumps" but see many sewage ejectors in sealed pits and I do not hesitate to charge $980 (a good pump will cost me $300 +) and routinely upgrade them for an additional $269 for the better pump controller with alarm.


*M-57 or M-53 run less than half the cost of a 267, not to mention the hazards of handling sewage over plain ground water.*
*I ain't cheap to grope poo either.*


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Some of the flat rate shops around here are outrageous, my neighbor was quoted a price of 975.00 to change a kitchen sink faucet, and he was providing the faucet.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

CPlumb said:


> I charge $450 for a sump pump ( Zoeller M-53 ) and check valve . I don't charge overtime and I REFUSE to charge emergency rates ,,, Folks are upset enough ,, they will remember a good thing and pass it on .


Sorry Cal, but I don't agree with doing folks favors like this. Yes, taking advantage of folks in a bad situation is not a good thing, and I avoid it, but, being taken away from my family after hours, or for an "emergency" comes at a price. I'm married to my wife, not my job. I didn't sign on to be a plumber 24/7/365. If there is a need for emergency service, due to weather or fire, or a blown over tree, OK, I can understand that.

But, I also expect to be compensated for it. To meet my lawyer in his office on a Saturday, or have my accountant come in over the weekend will cost me more than to meet with them during regular business hours. Why should my time be worth less? Why is your time worth less? My family certainly doesn't care to have me gone on the weekends. If someone needs my time after hours that is reserved for family, it had better be for a good reason and well compensated.

JMHO


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Some of the flat rate shops around here are outrageous, my neighbor was quoted a price of 975.00 to change a kitchen sink faucet, and he was providing the faucet.


*I'd be extremely interested in knowing how long they been in biz, how long into the future they get those prices, and how much longer they stay in biz.*
*Something doesn't sound right, you sure that wasn't with a basin or disposal as well?*


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *I'd be extremely interested in knowing how long they been in biz, how long into the future they get those prices, and how much longer they stay in biz.*
> *Something doesn't sound right, you sure that wasn't with a basin or disposal as well?*


Straight change out the faucet, they quoted that price site unseen over the phone. I can see pricing flat rate at worse case scenario, but that is a little over 6 hours if I charge my hourly labor rate of $140.00 an hour. My neighbor is new to the area, after getting that quote he came over to see if I knew someone more reasonable. I got curious and had him call three other non union shops in the area, the lowest price he was quoted was $600.00, all site unseen. I changed it for him on company time, he was billed for an hours time and twenty bucks for new rough brass supply lines.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Some of the flat rate shops around here are outrageous, my neighbor was quoted a price of 975.00 to change a kitchen sink faucet, and he was providing the faucet.


There has to be more to the story than this.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Straight change out the faucet, they quoted that price site unseen over the phone. I can see pricing flat rate at worse case scenario, but that is a little over 6 hours if I charge my hourly labor rate of $140.00 an hour. My neighbor is new to the area, after getting that quote he came over to see if I knew someone more reasonable. I got curious and had him call three other non union shops in the area, the lowest price he was quoted was $600.00, all site unseen. I changed it for him on company time, he was billed for an hours time and twenty bucks for new rough brass supply lines.


Fools. To quote a flat rate for an unseen task is beyond stupid.

On the other hand, I am calling BS on the neighbor's claims. Too many red flags.


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## CPlumb (Jan 17, 2008)

Fellas ,
THESE are straight sump pumps ,,, just ground water NO SEWAGE .

I don't disagree with weekend or emergency rates ,,, I just choose when to enact it and when it's nice folks in a bad situation ,,,, I choose not to charge extra .

That's just ridiculous to charge $1,200 for a $110 pump , $15 check valve and 20-30 minutes of work .

When I'm living well off of the 5-10 friends that this "Emergency customer" has referred to me ,,,, and this gauger has NO WORK ,,, that's when it pays off .

Cal


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Straight change out the faucet, they quoted that price site unseen over the phone. I can see pricing flat rate at worse case scenario, but that is a little over 6 hours if I charge my hourly labor rate of $140.00 an hour. My neighbor is new to the area, after getting that quote he came over to see if I knew someone more reasonable. I got curious and had him call three other non union shops in the area, the lowest price he was quoted was $600.00, all site unseen. I changed it for him on company time, he was billed for an hours time and twenty bucks for new rough brass supply lines.


*Thats it, I'm movin' to Chi-town.*

*I will say this, not all F/R shops bill that high, also there are T/M shops that play games by adding rediculous things onto the job once there, citing them as "necessary".*

*I get a large amount of my work through referral & repeat biz...I'd have a much larger ad budget if I charged rates like that.*
*Gotta admit, sometimes I wonder if it's better to spend boat loads to advertise and just bilk one time customers.*

*I started this thread a few months back regarding this question:*

Ethics vs bottom line - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

*Got a VAST variety of different schools of thinking from it.*
*My rates did go up, but not too much.*


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Straight change out the faucet, they quoted that price site unseen over the phone. I can see pricing flat rate at worse case scenario, but that is a little over 6 hours if I charge my hourly labor rate of $140.00 an hour. My neighbor is new to the area, after getting that quote he came over to see if I knew someone more reasonable. I got curious and had him call three other non union shops in the area, the lowest price he was quoted was $600.00, all site unseen. I changed it for him on company time, he was billed for an hours time and twenty bucks for new rough brass supply lines.


Well if he is getting quotes over the phone like that that is at least part of the reason why it seems a bit high. Now with respect to the faucet, I will tell you that I will not charge the same amount to install a $50 as I will to install a $500 dollar faucet even if they are basically the same type of faucet. Also I will keep the mark up on the faucet whether the ho provides it or not. That is part of my revenue and no one pays me for "labor only". The only difference is that if the ho provides the faucet I will not warranty it. So it's really in the ho's best interest to let us provide the faucet and I always try my best to explain this to the ho everytime they pull out that PricePfister Home Depot [email protected] Usually they listen and are glad they did. I routinely charge $590 for a standard grade spout spray ks faucet whereas your basic chrome single lever w/side spray would be around $410. This is a faucet that is nothing special, chrome, deck or single hole, no soap dispenser but good quality with a good warranty, and would retail around $250. My cost would be $100 - $120. Now if the faucet retails around $350 - $500, is more than a single hole or deck plate type install then I'm probably going to be right there in that neighborhood less MY COST.

So what faucet did you install Killer?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Thats it, I'm movin' to Chi-town.*
> 
> *I will say this, not all F/R shops bill that high, also there are T/M shops that play games by adding rediculous things onto the job once there, citing them as "necessary".*
> 
> ...


You may be on to something here.

All four of the companies called were taken out of the yellow pages, all of them had at least a full page ad. I remember finding it odd that two of the companies had different names, but the same license number, yet they quoted two different prices. 

I'm gonna have my wife call a few of the guys with smaller ads tomorrow and compare the results, maybe my neighbor, and my, problem was just plain calling from the wrong ads.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

smellslike$tome said:


> So what faucet did you install Killer?


I installed the Moen faucet he bought from Lowes, it took me twenty five minutes in and out. I probably should tried to sell him one of the Dornbrachts I have sitting in my garage, but he was pretty p.o.ed over the whole situation, and a polished nickel faucet would not have looked good on his SS sink anyway.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

22rifle said:


> Fools. To quote a flat rate for an unseen task is beyond stupid...


*I quote over the phone all the time...physically impossible to do an in person estimate for every small job, thats a perk for using flat rates, they know what the charge is up front...just make dam sure you tell them what it does and doesn't include.*


22rifle said:


> ...
> On the other hand, I am calling BS on the neighbor's claims. Too many red flags.


*I'm smellin' that too.*
*The only conceivable purpose to charge near that for labor on a KS faucet is if it were in a high-rise condo.*
*For a HO purchased faucet, sure there should be a markup with so many that wind up missing parts or are defective out of the box...but almost $1K?*


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> You may be on to something here.
> 
> All four of the companies called were taken out of the yellow pages, all of them had at least a full page ad. I remember finding it odd that two of the companies had different names, but the same license number, yet they quoted two different prices.
> 
> I'm gonna have my wife call a few of the guys with smaller ads tomorrow and compare the results, maybe my neighbor, and my, problem was just plain calling from the wrong ads.


*BINGO!*
*You might recall a thread I started a few months ago: **Ethics vs bottom line *

*What I really wanted to know was whether those guys get the prices they ask..I'd have to guess they do and furthermore the fact that they quote those prices tells me they get the calls.*
*Sling enough sh-t against the wall, some is gonna stick.*

*I sleep well at night, will continue to sleep in the future...but there's some food for thought on a happy medium in there somewhere.*


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

CPlumb said:


> Got a pet peeve ,,, see what you(s) think ,,
> 
> MASSIVE rain , areas reported 7-9 " over a few day period . Sump pump heaven for us plumbers .
> 
> ...


Reminds me of my Grandpa. He always said, "Bad word travels 10 times as fast as good word." I'm from the school of thought that says, "I was here before the storm and I will be here after. Thats why you pay the same price for my time no matter what the weather is doing this week."


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## Song Dog (Feb 3, 2006)

I do a flat rate but wow, that alot of cash for a 1/3 or a 1/2 hp sump.
I have been in situations where in fact, that I have given a quote over phone. It would be ranged, best case or worst case, plus service fee. I don't like giving prices over the phone because if you did do best case (only) that is what the HO has in their head and then when there is more to it after you see it, then you are a con artist. Its not safe but if I do it is a best case and worst case. I ALWAYS let them know, its sight unseen and don't bank on any information. They say OK and things are good. I have only quoted once this year over the phone.
My sumps are @ $396 (with svc fee)plus 3 year guarantee and the next step up is higher $? (I don't keep one so I forget the $).
I would like to get what he gets but I would like to sleep at night too.
Could I get more for my sumps, Yes.. But I like to retain customers and I do.
A guy once said, if they (HO) are not complaining about price then he isn't charging enough. Going by what he said I should mark up a bit, but naa.

In Christ,

Song Dog

BTW-For some who know that I WAS a Ben Franklin, We terminated it. We are back to LeMarr Plumbing, Inc.


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## Herk (Aug 1, 2007)

I absolutively refuse to quote prices over the phone. For all you know, the job could be 80' back in a crawl hole with a sewage-filled pit in the middle. Customers will say they have a huge leak when it's so small that setting a sponge under it will take care of it for three days. They'll say a pipe is 1/2" inch when it's 2". If they knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't need us. And if they say it's really easy to get to, maybe it is - for Plastic Man. There's too much badly installed plumbing here to take chances, and I assume it isn't so different elsewhere.

My flat rate prices are actually pretty low for a simple sump pump replacement. Of course, it depends on the quality of the pump. I don't do many sumps, but do more sewage ejectors.


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