# Overkill, or standard practice?



## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

Hey guys,

I'm closing in a porch in a part of town that has notoriously bad hack jobs for houses. The porch sits in a corner between two different renos done previously on the house:










Tore out the old concrete, which was two different slabs one poured over the other varying in thickness between 1" - 3" and pitched towards the house. Found air pockets between the bottom of the slab and the dirt some 3", some less. Assumed that water from the back yard, which is pitched towards the house, washed out the dirt and caused the slabs to crack. 

Leveled and compacted dirt. Poured a new slab 5-8" thick sloped away form the house. 

Noticed brick wall holding up the left side was in poor condition and letting water in:




















So I wrapped it in metal lath and had a stucco guy stucco it. Had him put a 1" slope on top away from the porch. 

Framed walls, 1/2 osb decking, wrapped in tyvec, flashed where the wall met the stucco and sided it in hardie. 

Is any of this overkill?

Some ahole was walking around the job telling the HO that everything I was doing was overkill and telling her how he could save her all this money, and she was agreeing!

I was also planning on putting in a foundation drain across the back side of the house along with some drylock waterproofing, but now I'm thinking about saying screw it, let the water rot your house away.

But , I'm also a young dude and really don't know that much, so maybe I am wasting her money? 

I should note that this is a T&M job with no estimate or ball park figure given or asked for.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Always do the best job possible. Never take the cheap and easy route, it cost more in the long run.

It would have been best to rip that thing down and start new.

Keep doing good work, and pretty soon you won't have to work on junk like that.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

And post a picture when you are done.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Overkill is underrated.


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

Dan_Watson said:


> Overkill is underrated.


True, I think a better question for you guys is is there anything I'm not doing that I should be?


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

ryanshull said:


> And post a picture when you are done.


I will, but it might be in the wall of shame.


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## j_sims (Jul 5, 2007)

Who ever it was that was walking around saying overkill, would have really been shocked by me. 
I can't really see the slab...but if it is as bad as you said and looks anything like the "structure"... She would have looked out the backdoor and seen nothing but sunlight and a pile of debris being hauled away. 

There will always the occasional neighbor that watches way too much HGTV and are experts that will have to say something.:wallbash:


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

j_sims said:


> Who ever it was that was walking around saying overkill, would have really been shocked by me. I can't really see the slab...but if it is as bad as you said and looks anything like the "structure"... She would have looked out the backdoor and seen nothing but sunlight and a pile of debris being hauled away. There will always the occasional neighbor that watches way too much HGTV and are experts that will have to say something.:wallbash:


Yep, that's what I should have done. In fact the whole house should really come down. Half of the houses floor joists are sitting on dirt. 

The slab in the pic is the one I poured. The old one was cracked to hell. Looked worse then the brick. 

The guy telling her it's overkill was a 50something year old handyman. He came in to caulk the tub and "fix" a rotten window sill. 

His "fix" for the sill was to take a piece of hardie scrap from my pile and caulk it on top of the rotten sill...

He was telling her that he does things right but "creatively" to save her money...


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## j_sims (Jul 5, 2007)

Ahhhh "Caulk Man" even better. Fixin' the world's problems one squeeze at a time.









:clap:


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Dan_Watson said:


> Overkill is underrated.


It's also underpriced.


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## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

I would not pick a fight (verbal or other) with the shady old dude. It would only make you look unprofessional in front of the home owner. I would just tell here that the reason you are having to repair her home is because someone used "creative" ways to save money. And mrs. Homeowner you can tell a lot about a guy that comes in and bad mouths another mans work, now I wouldn't do those tasks like mr mouth did. (and if she asks how you would do it differently, just say it doesn't matter you already paid him to do it, had mr mouth worked for me I wouldn't have let him do it that way for homeowners nor talk trash about other professionals in front of a homeowner, but I guess that's just me)


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

Unger.const said:


> I would not pick a fight (verbal or other) with the shady old dude. It would only make you look unprofessional in front of the home owner. I would just tell here that the reason you are having to repair her home is because someone used "creative" ways to save money. And mrs. Homeowner you can tell a lot about a guy that comes in and bad mouths another mans work, now I wouldn't do those tasks like mr mouth did. (and if she asks how you would do it differently, just say it doesn't matter you already paid him to do it, had mr mouth worked for me I wouldn't have let him do it that way for homeowners nor talk trash about other professionals in front of a homeowner, but I guess that's just me)


That's a great way to respond to his crap. Thanks man, I'm using that!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I bet she doesn't want to pay for permits, either:whistling

Don't take it too personal, some people are just going to go along with whatever someone is saying to avoid conflict or unpleasantness. Sure, there may be creative ways to do it, but she didn't hire her handyman.

The key is whether she is satisfied with YOUR work.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

As far as what you're doing, I don't see that you're doing more than covering the basics - not overkill.


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

hdavis said:


> I bet she doesn't want to pay for permits, either:whistling
> 
> Don't take it too personal, some people are just going to go along with whatever someone is saying to avoid conflict or unpleasantness. Sure, there may be creative ways to do it, but she didn't hire her handyman.
> 
> The key is whether she is satisfied with YOUR work.


Nope no permits no contract and I'm not licensed or insured. So I guess I'm just as bad as the handyman in that respect. 

I will get there someday, I'm just not good enough or knowledgable yet.


That's an excellent point. Sometimes it tough to remember that.


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## j_sims (Jul 5, 2007)

Fingersmasher said:


> Nope no permits no contract and I'm not licensed or insured. So I guess I'm just as bad as the handyman in that respect.
> 
> I will get there someday, I'm just not good enough or knowledgable yet.
> 
> ...



You may be what you said above....But one one thing about it... is you are damned honest about it. :laughing:


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

j_sims said:


> You may be what you said above....But one one thing about it... is you are damned honest about it. :laughing:


Haha thanks man. Yep I've been accused of being too honest more than once. 

These people are friends of my boss and they asked him to do it. He sent me to do because he didn't want to deal with it. 

I'm eager and stupid enough to say "hell yeah I'll do it!"

Progress pics:






















I know the windows are too low. She wanted her dogs to be able to look out I to the back yard...

I have added flashing to the windows and above the door. 

If there's anything I've missed, please let me know..


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Only thing I will say is that you should probably get around to giving her some kind of a ballpark. 
If you're in an area surrounded by hack work, working on a hack job, and there are hacks roaming the streets wild, I would wonder whether or not this woman is going to want to pay for steak when she's been used to hamburger.

Other than that, it's looks like you've got yourself a fine porch!


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

hdavis said:


> .... but she didn't hire her handyman.
> 
> The key is whether she is satisfied with YOUR work.


That is the key. The guy is bad-mouthing you because she didn't hire him to do his hack work on it, and you shouldn't sweat it too much. If he comes along again and you're asked to defend your choices again, you can say, "Well, [your boss's name] asked me to do it because he wanted it done correctly. Not fancy, just right."

Easy's right, though, you need to get the money picture squared up with her right away.


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

I'm a little concerned about that. I'll find out tomorrow when I finish and hand her the bill...

I'm not sure she's getting steak, maybe just a burger that isn't from the dollar menu.

Just for the hell of it here's an interesting crown job in her kitchen:


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