# Warning: you are being watched.



## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

I am involved in a lawsuit. I will not go into details, but it's a tricky one, and now my insurance has taken over the case.

Yesterday out lawyers showed me a thick book(which was provided by the other side) with a transcript of every single post I've ever made on this forum, as well as every post I've ever made on my Mustang club forum. How they found them, I have no idea. What they hope to gain, I have no idea. 
Our lawyers think that they think they will be able to prove that I'm rich and famous, and highly experienced, and therefore "should have known". 

From now on I am going to be much more circumspect about what I say on these forums. Because of this, I have been advised not to give advice(which would portray me as experieced), and not to talk about any good sales, in fact, nothing that could in any way make me look like I know what I'm doing or that I'm successful.

I had no idea that this could even be done: finding my "identity", pulling all my posts, publishing them. I can't even claim invasion of privacy, as this is a public forum.

Just letting everyone know; apparently even our private discussions and musings can come under scrutuny and be used against us.

Beware!!


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

I have never believed anything except 
that we are in a fish bowl here.
It amazes me that others don't feel it
as well.
Sorry to hear about your problems,
and I hope it all ends as well as anything
with lawyers can end.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Maybe we need an auto destruct after 7 days.... 

We can tell them your dumb as a rock....


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## macatawacab (Jan 1, 2009)

Everything on the web is open for public consumption and stays out there for ever. I try to tell my kids this. Don't post pictures of you partying or compromised in other ways because it could hurt employment, school choices, etc.

As far as CT establishing you as an expert or knowledgeable in your field I would hope that even outside the web arena you would be known as both?!

If someone accused you of being one of the best contractors in your area, would there be enough evidence to convict?


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I know all too well about this. I hope it goes better for you than it did for me. Just an FYI for everyone also, there are "sniffers" out there that can find any new information you put anywhere on the internet regarding a subject. 

For example, mine was involved in the Today Show and within an hour someone will be calling my old boss and talking with him about me. I call it my quiet revenge! 

You can use it to your advantage if you really think about it.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

I just typed a long post and then decided to delete. I'll just stick with the music game..:laughing:


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## macatawacab (Jan 1, 2009)

I was given a good piece of advice regarding public pronouncements.

"Never write anything that you would not want to see put on a 24"x36" poster board in front of a jury."


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Haven't we learned anything since the day this CT forum or any other forum was/is born?? 


==>>> Be *discreet, be cautious, be professional, be courteous, be non-confrontational*, ..or just be... *Anonymous! :whistling:thumbsup::jester::shutup:arty::notworthy*


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

That's why I always :shutup::shutup::shutup::shutup:, when I :shutup:. 

That way, :shutup: doesn't :shutup::shutup: to haunt:shutup:.


Besides, I am truly a respected professional, (unless of course the lawsuit requires my ignorance):clap:

Good luck Stone!


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Read whats posted under my name:w00t:


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## jma_1000 (Apr 8, 2009)

A certain amount of discretion should always be used when openly discussing business, techniques, opinions, etc. Its not hard to trace your every activity, if you don't protect yourself appropriately. If you've ever sent an email, then most likely you've also sent your IP, unless using a proxy. As far as your 'enthusiast' mustang forum activity... well, that just proves it isn't the wisest choice to use the same SN for every forum, even if you are hiding your IP.

Best of luck to you in your suit - I hope it fares in your favor.


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## Osito (Mar 4, 2008)

I thought this a way to shoot the  with old friends. Sorry for what you are dealing with. Hope all goes well.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

this is the internet. Everything you do on it can be traced. you just have to take that into account when posting. Common Sense people common sense.


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## Trim40 (Jan 27, 2009)

If they look hard enough, I 'll show them my vertical smile:thumbup:
Sorry to here about your troubles.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Stone Mountain said:


> *Because of this, I have been advised not to give advice(which would portray me as experieced), *
> 
> *and not to talk about any good sales, *
> 
> *in fact, nothing that could in any way make me look like I know what I'm doing or that I'm successful.*


Well Stone, since I consider you to be a friend, I can persoanlly vouch that you have absolutely no experience and do not know what you are doing,

that you wouldn't know how to describe what a good sale was, even if it hit you in the face,

and that you know absolutely nothing about everything, or is that everything about nothing.....?

Did that help?

There, print that out now.

Ed


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

They 'found' you on a couple forums, but didn't mention your web site????


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

Ridiculous. Penalized for knowledge and a heart large enough to care about your peers in the industry to help someone stuck in a rut. This forum is actually very amazing. You have contractors from all over the U.S. sharing ideas, war stories, teqniques, marketing strategies, etc. The large majority of contractors on here who post often are the very few 'good guys/gals' left in this industry. We are the ones who are fighting the stereotypes that our industry as a whole has worked so carelessly to earn. We are the ones who spend 80 to 100 hours a week working and improving our business so that we can hold on to our quality help, promote integrity, hire more people, and change the perception of 'the contractor' one project at a time. A group of 35,000 (or more) competitors who give away their most valuable trade secrets and ideas to help out the new guy, or the old veteran trying to adjust to the times, or the medium sized company hitting a growing pains. And we get targeted??? For one, I will continue to post my thoughts, ideas, questions, or suggestions in an effort of professionalilsm (most of the time) and publicly say to the 'sniffers'....BRING IT ON!! 

My father told me a long time ago that you only have one last name. He informed me that he gave it to me without strings attached and non-tarnished. I was instructed to think of that every time I did business with someone to make certain it stayed that way for my kids, their kids, etc etc. Right is right either in our actions or our words. I do not believe in grey areas. Do and say what is right and you will always win. You may not 'win' a lawsuit, but that is but a minor battle in the larger war. 

I'm usually not a soapbox speaker, but for some reason the OP set me off. I feel for you, Stone, because good companies should not have to go through things like this. I truly hope it works out in your favor.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

hmm so using this train of thought could I use my posts here as a clinically insane, functioning alcoholic, ex-smoker defense?


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## RoyalTech (Mar 14, 2009)

search google for "stone mountain fence and deck"

6th hit down is a link to a post you made on CT

from there, click on your user name, then statistics, then "find all posts from stone mountain"

which will show every post you've ever made on CT, freely available to the internets

and if someone knew your real name, i bet they could find a whole lot more.


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## RizzoMaryland (Feb 12, 2007)

rbsremodeling said:


> Read whats posted under my name:w00t:


Summary judgment.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

RizzoMaryland said:


> Summary judgment.


thank you for clearing up any misconceptions anyone may have had:laughing:


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

that sucks man.... i am very curious as to why it is your being sued, but i'm sure you cannot comment on that
none of us have anything to hide and most of us talk whatever is on our mind at the moment. if we could get in trouble for what we thought.... well... i hope that day never comes!!


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Total BS and sorry to hear you going through that. 

You can only do what you think is right... The best you can, with what you have.

_"If I were to try to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for any other business. I do the very best I know how - the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what's said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference."_
*A.Lincoln*


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Stone Mountain*  
_*Because of this, I have been advised not to give advice(which would portray me as experieced), *

*and not to talk about any good sales, *

*in fact, nothing that could in any way make me look like I know what I'm doing or that I'm successful.*_




Ed the Roofer said:


> Well Stone, since I consider you to be a friend, I can persoanlly vouch that you have absolutely no experience and do not know what you are doing,
> 
> that you wouldn't know how to describe what a good sale was, even if it hit you in the face,
> 
> ...


 

You realize I was kidding, don't you?

Oh, wait a minute. I retract that comment for the future official record and printed version of this thread.

Ed


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I stand by everything I have posted on the web in my name. That is one reason why I USED my name on this board. On other boards (gaming boards), I do not, since they are full of garbage, some of which may even be mine.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Doesn't CT have a Disclaimer posted for this site that would serve as blanket protection for the members?

It seems to me that anyone who has half a brain would know that the Internet is a medium which contains as much useful as well as bogus information.
To use our personal postings as legal fodder ,is like saying everything we read there is factual and proven.It takes an idiot to defend an idiot!

It's become just another avenue for Ambulance Chasers.

GOT MY NEW SIGNATURE!!!!!:
*
While every caution has been taken to provide readers with accurate information and honest opinions, please use your discretion before making any decisions based on the information in this forum. I will not compensate you in any way whatsoever if you ever happen to suffer a loss/inconvenience/damage because of/while making use of information in this forum.
Do not,I repeat,Do not try this at home.
We are just a bunch of trained monkeys trying to make an honest living to the best of our abilities,with limited intelligence, verbal skills,and the bumps and bruises,physical and emotional ,associated with the trades.
Thank you for your understanding and patience.

*


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## bryank1202 (Sep 14, 2008)

Nobody is watching u... u have all your business info on your username and signature... google your company name and your posts will show up on google/yahoo etc


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

other then this site I only look at adult sites, so unless a midget or a farm animal want to take me to court I should be safe.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> other then this site I only look at adult sites, so unless a midget or a farm animal want to take me to court I should be safe.



moooo :blink::laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Great now they are double watching us. We're on Double Secret Probation!


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

They are just trying to intimidate you and get you  fuming. 
As much as some may hate to hear this, practically everything posted on this site is opinion...professional opinion, personal opinion, political opinion. I don't see many comments posted listing footnotes and bibliographies after every sentence.

My lawsuit settled yesterday after 1 1/2 years and over $25,000 in legal and professional costs. Recovery was $8,000 and title cleared on property. Judge ordered everybody to the settlement hearing yesterday and told 5 attorneys that nobody was leaving until the case was settled.

Hang in there. If you did nothing wrong you will ultimately prevail....problem is it will cost you to prove it unless the Canadian judicial system is different than the US's.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> They are just trying to intimidate you and get you  fuming.
> As much as some may hate to hear this, practically everything posted on this site is opinion...professional opinion, personal opinion, political opinion. I don't see many comments posted listing footnotes and bibliographies after every sentence.
> 
> My lawsuit settled yesterday after 1 1/2 years and over $25,000 in legal and professional costs. Recovery was $8,000 and title cleared on property. Judge ordered everybody to the settlement hearing yesterday and told 5 attorneys that nobody was leaving until the case was settled.
> ...


There are detail and procedural differences, but both are based on British law.
I will probably settle, in the next little while and thereby eliinate a lot of legal costs.


I really don't want to get into the whole thing. It might lower everyone's opinion of me as a hero.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> They are just trying to intimidate you and get you  fuming.
> As much as some may hate to hear this, practically everything posted on this site is opinion...professional opinion, personal opinion, political opinion. I don't see many comments posted listing footnotes and bibliographies after every sentence.
> 
> My lawsuit settled yesterday after 1 1/2 years and over $25,000 in legal and professional costs. Recovery was $8,000 and title cleared on property. Judge ordered everybody to the settlement hearing yesterday and told 5 attorneys that nobody was leaving until the case was settled.
> ...


This the one with the town and a demo order?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

ModernStyle said:


> other then this site I only look at adult sites, so unless a midget or a farm animal want to take me to court I should be safe.


:clap::laughing::laughing::clap:
I love home spun humor! :laughing:


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

creeepy


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Great now they are double watching us. We're on Double Secret Probation!








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbN_MAUbLPM


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

what post are they using against you?
were you making fun of this particular client?
If you were just mentioning a past situation on a post and failed to catch the same mistake for this customer, how can this be used against you? We all make mistakes, and some things are unforseeable and only seem obvious after the fact...But to warrant a lawsuit!? ... Well, I'm sure there's two sides to this situation, but as a fellow contractor... good luck!


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

oh and the "Rich and famous" part doesn't make sense to me,... tax returns can be requested by the court... no need to go to the internet for that. 


Sorry, I just think there a little more to this... I do wish you luck though... unless you screwed them over... then you deserve... what you... 

I'll shut up now... sorry.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Yes, the web is wide open and many a person has come from nowhere and made remarks about my comments here and there. Never say what you wouldn't say to clients, or on the stand.:thumbsup:

I guess it's a good thing I've been posting all those jackleg and stupid repair pictures and claiming them as my own!:clap: THey've sure caused controversy at times!:clap:
I get phones calls at times letting me know that folks think I'm the jackleg. Keep it up guys.:jester:


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## jcalvin (Feb 1, 2008)

I went through a suit several years ago that took about 2yrs start to finish. It was unrelated to constuction, but, a suit is a suit. It is VERY expensive to be the one suing someone else. They have to pay the attorneys to go dig up all the information to support their case. If you are decent, which you are absolutely not!!!!, it will take many man hours at like $250/hr. I hired an attorney to write a couple letters that said I have no interest in settling and will see them in court. They ran out of money. Cost me about $750 I think. 

After they prove your guilt, then they have to prove your damages. In my case, they were after "treble damages". The attorney lead their client to think that "damages" was the price of the car I sold. Actually, the damages is the price I sold the car for minus the price it was worth minus the 2.5 years of use they got out of it, THEN tripled. Actual prize was MUCH smaller than they first estimated. Too bad all they got out of it was enormous attorney fees.:thumbup::laughing::w00t:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Official Notice!!

The opinions expressed on Contractor Talk do not necessarily represent the opinions of anyone here, alive or dead and may not be used to prosecute, slander, sue, discriminate or dismember any member who posts. These opinions are of a ficticious nature and in no way represnt any person, creature, animal. vegetable, or meneral alive or dead or will ever exist. None of the methods discussed here should ever be performed by any person/persons without the expressed written consent of every member who has ever or will ever post here. We hold these truths to be self evident that we really have no justification for our posting except for entertainment purposes only.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, this looks like a challenge to come up with the best disclaimer out there. Any takers?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Cdat said:


> Well, this looks like a challenge to come up with the best disclaimer out there. Any takers?


I'm a poor, unknown idiot not worthy of suing.

There, I said it. I'm safe now.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

I KNOW NOTHING

http://


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

In a nutshell: 
a mistake was made on a high end deck that we built. We had an experienced, talented carpenter who had built at least 80 decks for us. The workmanship was superb.
The installer lost his licence and left, moving north about 100 miles.

A problem developed with the deck.

I am now being sued over this. By using the CT site, they are trying to prove that I "boasted" about my expertise, therefore misleading the client as to my ability to build the deck properly, and by talking about some of the big contracts I've gotten I have shown that I'm rich(beleive me, far, far from it), thereby being able to settle for 8 times what the deck cost. What they forget is that out of a $50,000 contract similar to the ones I've mentioned in past posts, there's not a whole lot left after expenses and costs.
The owner also forgets all the Little things we did to strengthen the deck which other companies didn't even mention when they provided quotes. Or that he was adamant about not getting a building permit, which simple act would have exonerated me entirely because of municipal inspections. Or that it's possible that the rim joist of his house was rotten, which could not have been determined prior to construction.

In any event, I have made a proposal, and my lawyer thinks it wil be accepted.


Oh, and before you guys flame me about building without a permit: less than 10% of all deck customers get permits. No one wants them because they are too much trouble. I build to code regardless. I also offer and suggest to everyone to get a permit, but they usually decline.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Stone Mountain said:


> Oh, and before you guys flame me about building without a permit: less than 10% of all deck customers get permits. No one wants them because they are too much trouble.


No flames here; I know how it goes. I'd put the permit percentage higher around here, but it's only because many of the decks being built are a little too visible to fly under the radar.

I will say that if I have any doubts, I push for a permit even though it's a pain. At the least, I don't want a bad rep with the codes guy. And for anything but minor electrical work, I _definitely_ get an inspection, just for the CYA factor.

Bummer. Here's hoping the whole thing sorts out without too much pain.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Stone, thankyou for sharing some of the details, my mind was running wild, and i was thinking about signing off once and for all because of the fear and concern that your post had caused me. I know you cant give us much detail but if "the workmanship was superb" what could have gone wrong----Best of luck, i hope you end up with an acceptable resolution. G


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## Mike(VA) (Jan 9, 2008)

Curious if you warrant the deck and it was in effect when they 'found' the problem. Also, doesn't your contract spell out that you have the right to correct any problems first? Maybe jumping the gun here and I am sure there are other parts to the story, but something smells fishy on the ho's part.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Man what a pain, this is the very reason I pull permits and have all my inspections signed and dated, I have heard nightmare stories about Ho coming back after the fact even though they requested no permits, hope it works out for you, from your posts here you are an honest professional. :thumbsup:


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

where in the law book does it say crap happens? sometime even the best of structures suffer some unforeseen issues... ever watch the discovery channel?


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Who cares if you were boasting youre good at what you do? Or that youre rich. How does your income define what a suitable settlement is?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

john5mt said:


> How does your income define what a suitable settlement is?


Think McDonald's and a cup of coffee.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

neolitic said:


> This the one with the town and a demo order?


Yes, that's the one.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> Yes, that's the one.


Glad that worked out.
Sorry it cost so much.


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

I know I'm just asking for a roundhouse kick to the esophagus... But the whole thing seems off to me. I have a gut feeling this is a story, either streched truth or a cry for attention.

Sorry chief I have to call B.S, just my opinion, which means I could be totally wrong and it could be your just a bad story teller.

Things just don't seem to add up to me.


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

I know I'm just asking for a roundhouse kick to the esophagus... But the whole thing seems off to me. I have a gut feeling this is a story, either streched truth or a cry for attention.

Sorry chief I have to call B.S, just my opinion, which means I could be totally wrong and it could be your just a bad story teller.

Things just don't seem to add up to me.


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

Stone Mountain said:


> I am involved in a lawsuit. I will not go into details, but it's a tricky one, and now my insurance has taken over the case.
> 
> Yesterday out lawyers showed me a thick book(which was provided by the other side) with a transcript of every single post I've ever made on this forum, as well as every post I've ever made on my Mustang club forum. How they found them, I have no idea. What they hope to gain, I have no idea.
> Our lawyers think that they think they will be able to prove that I'm rich and famous, and highly experienced, and therefore "should have known".
> ...



Google search on "fenceanddeck.ca" Contractor Talk is on the first page, tenth result. Click on it and it brings up your contact info and every post you've ever made on Contractor Talk.com. 1,126 posts.


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

what tha heck!? It got sent twice! Stupid iPhone!



I'm sorry iPhone I can't stay mad at you...


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

easymoney said:


> what tha heck!? It got sent twice! Stupid iPhone!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry iPhone I can't stay mad at you...


I has one of dems..........Love it and HATE it to death at the same times!!!!


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## Handymanservice (Mar 1, 2009)

*Take your own advice from now on... .. .*

"Frequently Asked Questions
*Why should I get a building permit for a deck?*
Most municipalities require one.
With a permit, the municipality will inspect the deck for compliance with the Ontario Building Code (OBC). This ensures a sound, safe structure which should last for decades. *Unfortunately, not every deck builder understands the OBC, and while their workmanship may be excellent, the deck may be unsafe.*"

I am not saying anything one way or another, but I grabbed this directly from your FAQ's and that would have seemed to be prudent advice, especially in a situation such as this.

I have been through a lawsuit that I feel was unwarranted, but it is what it is. You are offering a settlement, I hope it works out for you, it didn't for me. Pay them in *CASH *(with them signing acknowledgement of receipt) - not a check, they may not cash it and change their mind.


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

Stone, best wishes to you. Thank you for the heads up. :thumbsup:


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*I would not think anything you write could be used....*

against you successfully because everyone knows that many people tend to exaggerate, be over optimistic, not know the real truth, and there is a lot of lattitude for error. How would a jury be able know the facts from the bull. I could write that I do $4 million a year in business and I only do $50,000. What you really know and how much business you do will be determined after you have a deposition (where the attorneys on both sides interrogate you) and after they send in some forensic experts to look at your books. I think?

I wish you the best of luck. I hate problems of any type and usually people worry too much. When I have to go to court I always put every paper and not in a three-ring binder with plastic protectors. I even make an index so my attorney can find things fast. Don't rely on your attorney to organize nor rember everything. The attorneys never put as much effort into organizing as you can and attorneys mix up facts with other cases. You may tell your attorney something and think he will remember. Do extensive homework and help your attorney prepare for the case.

Most cases never go to trial. Expect a settlement on the courthouse steps. Hopefully!


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## Lawrence (Mar 24, 2005)

*Hope it goes ok Stone...*

Give a shout if you need someone to brainstorm with... I am usually on the other side of the courtroom, but it may be helpful to have devils advocate ripping into things.

(in a twisted way I really enjoy court).

L


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## BMAN (Aug 21, 2006)

Nathan, can our posts be copyrighted? then wouldnt they have to pay to use them?


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

BMAN said:


> Nathan, can our posts be copyrighted? then wouldnt they have to pay to use them?


That would only apply if they wanted to publish them.

Ed


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

duh, I am being investigated through my posts...I am gonna go in front of a judge because I'm rich and famous, oh yeah... Hey everybody only 10% of my jobs are done illegally! Duh...



no.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Stone Mountain said:


> they are trying to prove that I "boasted" about my expertise,



Duh, in many circles that is just plain "salesmanship".
So, do you suppose your adversary's attorney "boasted" about his/her abilities in order to get your clients business??


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## Buckknekkid (Feb 10, 2008)

*Permits*

STONE!!!! Toronto courts and the building dept will not stand behind you.. Bill C124 places the onus on the BCIN holder. email me any time,, Buckk


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Is it possible to get a building permit, even if there would be a late penalty or something, just so the building inspector could view and approve your work, post mortem?

Ed


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Is it possible to get a building permit, even if there would be a late penalty or something, just so the building inspector could view and approve your work, *post mortem?*
> 
> Ed


Ed, what does molesting a dead horse have to do with this case?:sad:


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## HomerJ (Jan 23, 2009)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Is it possible to get a building permit, even if there would be a late penalty or something, just so the building inspector could view and approve your work, post mortem?
> 
> Ed


This might be worth looking into.

I know a plumber and a GC who've both pulled permits post mortem. A couple of those permits were pulled almost a year after the work was done.

Of course, none of those jobs were involved in a lawsuit.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Hey Susan, hope it all works out for you. Your little homeless ass has been nothing but worthless with your advice to me. 

I hope that all makes sense :laughing:


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Don't know how that would work, they want footing inspection befor eyou do any work.

Couldn't the inspector show up and basically say, tear it all down to the footings and he'll come back for inspection then?


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

wrong thread for my post 

Take advice with a grain of salt.


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## Handymanservice (Mar 1, 2009)

Wouldnt it be great to see some photos or get more details so we knew what we were talking about? Since we cant do that, it is tough to nail down a solution.

I think Ed is on to something, I have seen situations where the permits were pulled, with penalties, way after the job was completed. Again, these were not lawsuit issues though.

Usually the Inspector can tell by looking at how well a job is built if you were "code compliant". I know he cant tell what the details were of the footing, but you could at least dig next to the footing to expose the depth. It is reasonable to assume if the depth & width are correct, that you wouldn't skimp on some rebar.

Anytime I do something like a footing or something that will be permanently covered up, I back it up with photos in the file. Doesn't matter if it was signed off or not, I CYA in all circumstances. Never know what the future holds.

Good luck, I hope the outcome is the best _you_ hope for.


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## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

A couple of things come to mind as I read through this thread:

1.] Stone, quite frankly, I'm very surprised you're continuing to talk about this case here, divulging details about it and talking about your client. 

I know folks here are curious but c'mon, man, no need to throw gas on the fire. Ya gotta figure your opposition is reading this daily now...

2.] Less than 10% get permits 'cause they're *too much trouble*? It's not like a requirement or anything? - merely a suggestion to get a permit?
Don't you *want* to be in the top 10% of all builders in your area?

3.] You *do* talk actual numbers here, what your projects are priced at, and that astounds the hell out of me every time you do. You talk about getting this 20K project, that 8K fence, you've done 100K this month, etc...

I dunno, man, I'd let this thread die until you're done w/ your case.
But that's just me...

Mac


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

I appreciate everything you guys are saying here. Let's please just leave it that a mistake may have been made, and it looks as if I'm going to be paying for it.
The particular lawyer on the other side, has a reputation for "creating" situations that he could win. He was, I believe, censured a few years ago by the local bar association. He is a shark, and refused a reasonable settlement 6 months ago.. I won't say more for fear of saying the wrong thing and "incriminating" my self. Isn't that the 5th amendment south of the border?

Anyway, I started off by mentioning that whatever we post can be found by anyone and used for their own purposes. Apparently, because I have 30 years in this business, and because I've "held myself out as an expert" by giving advice and solutions, and by mentioning methods of construction, advertising and such, and by suggesting business practices, all on this board, I am showing that I am an expert, whether I call myself one or not. Also, since I mentioned a few large jobs, such as a $50,000 townhouse job, and a $50,000 deck from 25 years ago, I am "portraying myself" as rich, when the actuality is that right now I am far from it.
All this would be used against me to prove to a potential jury that I should pay, big time. 
Oh, and anything I posted on my Mustang board could show that I am "frivolous" with my money, and that I pay more attention to my cars than I do my business.
To be honest, I think most of this is just to pump up the lawyer's fees. 
In any event, I have made a settlement offer, and my lawyer thinks it will be OK.
Just have to work harder to make it up.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

BuiltByMAC said:


> A couple of things come to mind as I read through this thread:
> 
> 1.] Stone, quite frankly, I'm very surprised you're continuing to talk about this case here, divulging details about it and talking about your client.
> 
> ...


...


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

:furious::shutup::whistling:gunsmilie::shuriken:


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Say the word _LIAR_ very slow to pronounce the word _LAWYER_.

Good luck, Stone . . .


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## JSC (Jul 10, 2008)

Tom R said:


> Say the word _LIAR_ very slow to pronounce the word _LAWYER_.
> 
> Good luck, Stone . . .


 

Or maybe this: LIAwyeR.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

If you were to consider the Post-Job Building Inspection, you had better have job photo documentation to back up the procedures that were done.

But, it seems as if you have made your decision in the best interests of looking forward, rather than back.

Good luck to you Stone. We share your misery.

Ed


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

no lawsuit would ever get me so scared that I start to question my professionalism. "their trying to say I'm an expert" type thing seems to me so far from a real reaction. I've come to the conclusion that A) stone is very popular and all of you are sensitve to this issue and would like to give him the benefit of doubt or B) My instincts for spotting BS has completely failed me for the first time EVER! Since this is over the Internet and I'm new so I don't stone very well I'll give myself the benefit of doubt.

Which just means I'll forgive myself if I'm wrong this time.


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

reminds me of the time I made one of the guys admit he was lying about sleeping (even dating) a girl (building tenant) we were having lunch in a commercial building in Los Angeles, and this co-worker told us that he had gone out with this girl we had seen in the elevator, well we all thought it might be true because she had flirted with this guy in front of all of us. I thought it possible but the more he told his story the more things felt off, he never contradicted anything or exaggerated things beyond normal circumstances, however I had my gut instincts... Everyone thought I was being I jerk for calling our buddy out as a liar, all they wanted was the details.

But to his credit, he told me privately that he didn't know why he lies, except he felt the need for attention. I thanked him for not insulting my intelegence and that I wouldn't tell anyone unless it got out of hand (disrespecting the woman in cattle calls or further rumors)

Me, I can't help it either I call them as I see them. I know full well I could be wrong and even look like a bad guy since I'm going out on a limb calling stone out, but throwing numbers around as mac mentioned just makes my gut feeling stronger.

Feel free to pm me stone... Just kidding, please just don't take it personal, if this weren't such an important issue (privacy,laws,professionalism etc.,) I would even think of interrupting yer thread.

Either way good luck with your business.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Easy Money,

And my gut feeling says you're vying for attention.

How many times and in how many ways do you feel the need to say you don't believe the story??

We heard you the first time.

Here's one fact for you, - - most people believe him simply because he has gained (earned) their trust over a good (and steady) period of time.

People are generally either liars or they're not.

He's not.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Funny that it's guys who haven't 
been around long enough to 
get to know anyone who
question long time posters.
Dale Carnegie must not be very 
popular any more. :laughing:


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

The whole point of my initial post on this thread was to show that we are no longer safe anywhere from prying eyes. Whatever we post, or say, anywhere, can show up on forums like this, on You tube, facebook, or where ever.
I am 58 years old, and did not grow up with today's technology. Unlike some of you younger people, I was 35 when we got our first computer (with a 20 MEG hard drive and green letters on a black screen), 36 when we got our first cell phones, and 38 when we got our first fax machine. This was all from 1985 to 88. For gosh sake, my first year in business I didn't even have a hand held calculator.
The point is, I don't have technology "built into my psyche" like a lot of you (who have had computers since you were born), so when it comes the implications such as lack of privacy, I simply don't realize it like some of you would. I am also the type to wear my heart on my sleeve, and cannot understand or believe in the innate greediness or maliciousness of others, like the lawyer on the other side.
This is a good lesson to me, and seeing some of your responses and listening to your advice has opened my eyes. And I really appreciate the moral support
most of you have given me. (Easy money, there's no BS here; just don't want to get into all the sordid details)
Gotta say, once more: this forum is wonderful. Even though I've only met in person a handful of you (and you know who you are), I honestly feel like I'm part of a wonderful community and that I have someplace to fall back on when things get rough. Thank you.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Stone Mountain said:


> The whole point of my initial post on this thread was to show that we are no longer safe anywhere from prying eyes. Whatever we post, or say, anywhere, can show up on forums like this, on You tube, facebook, or where ever.
> I am 58 years old, and did not grow up with today's technology. Unlike some of you younger people, I was 35 when we got our first computer (with a 20 MEG hard drive and green letters on a black screen), 36 when we got our first cell phones, and 38 when we got our first fax machine. This was all from 1985 to 88. For gosh sake, my first year in business I didn't even have a hand held calculator.
> ...............
> Gotta say, once more: this forum is wonderful. Even though I've only met in person a handful of you (and you know who you are), I honestly feel like I'm part of a wonderful community and that I have someplace to fall back on when things get rough. Thank you.


I get it for sure.
(A 40 pound Friden was the ultimate
calculator when I started.)
I was really stunned the first time I Googled
for research, and got one of my own posts
back in the results. :blink:
Led me to think about this place 
in a different light.
Just a glance at the "views," and the number
of "visitors" logged on at any given time
should give us something to think about.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Yep. This forum is a ONE BIG FAMILY alrighty!! :thumbsup::whistling:jester: We always support & love each other like brothers & sisters too. We pick each other spirit up & kick each other ass down when needed too. :thumbup::thumbsup:


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

> I am 58 years old,


Wow, You don't sound that old when you type. 

We should do an age poll. :shutup: Never mind.. :laughing:

Who's the oldest guy on here?? Neo??? He sounds old..arty:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

K2 said:


> Wow, You don't sound that old when you type.
> 
> We should do an age poll. :shutup: Never mind.. :laughing:
> 
> Who's the oldest guy on here?? Neo??? He sounds old..arty:


He is middle aged.........






If you believe people live
to be 122. :laughing:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Stone Mountain said:


> I am 58 years old, and did not grow up with today's technology.


I'm 59, and I did. I was a mainframe programmer/analyst back in the early 70's, before PCs existed. And anything like today's WWW was pure science fiction. 

I would argue that the older you are, the better equipped you should be to deal with new technology, *if* you pay attention and learn about it as it develops. And don't fall prey to CRS syndrome. Learning along with it actually gives you a leg up on the youngsters who don't have a clue about the underlying reasons why things are the way they are.

But I'll also grant that if you're busy swinging hammers & shovels all day long, that leaves little time and energy for playing nerd. I had the good fortune to be an electronics tech for many years. 

But now I swing a hammer, and I admit I'm not keeping up too well with the latest developments in nuclear physics. :blink:


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Tinstaafl said:


> I'm 59, and I did. I was a mainframe programmer/analyst back in the early 70's, before PCs existed. And anything like today's WWW was pure science fiction.
> 
> :blink:


59?!
I'm going to have to change my login to kindofoldfrt and let you have my old one.

If it wasn't for starting a family(at43years)I still wouldn't have a computer.
There are still things I don't understand about them,so when someone like Stone Mountain makes a claim as to how his posts are being used against him,I like to hear more so his mistake isn't repeated.

Thanks for sharing the topic and good luck in it's outcome.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

oldfrt said:


> I'm going to have to change my login to kindofoldfrt and let you have my old one.


Thanks anyway, but mentally I'm still a puppy. They still have to put down newspapers for me.

...or is that _again_? :sad:


But yeah, kidding aside, we can all occasionally use that reminder about how public we are here. :thumbsup:


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## easymoney (Mar 1, 2009)

Well, I guess i wore out my welcome... Just my two cents folks, if I had my desk top computer or alittle more interest I'd list the 'red flags' (about 8) but I'm on my iPhone till I get back home. 

I guess I'm all into the whole "correctness" thing and I ain't emotionally involved so I say what I want to say.

Fine "we ARE being watched" then... Let's all start lying and changing stuff so our customers won't sue... Jeez!


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

easymoney said:


> Well, I guess i wore out my welcome... Just my two cents folks, if I had my desk top computer or alittle more interest I'd list the 'red flags' (about 8) but I'm on my iPhone till I get back home.
> 
> I guess I'm all into the whole "correctness" thing and I ain't emotionally involved so I say what I want to say.
> 
> Fine "we ARE being watched" then... Let's all start lying and changing stuff so our customers won't sue... Jeez!



Your red flags and your gut instincts would probably be an issue in an open conversation, - - but they're probably attributed to the fact that he still has to watch what he says publicly and simply can't divulge all the facts, at least at this particular point in time.

You didn't wear out any welcome.


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## TonyC5C (Apr 9, 2009)

You don't have an ex wife do you????? lol Sorry I knoe someone that this happened to and SHE was looking for other sources of income


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## tuffplay (Sep 27, 2009)

*Wow*

Word of the wise: If you wouldnt say it in real life; dont say it on the internet. This is all public information.


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## Dan V. (Oct 16, 2008)

I know this is an old thread but I just have to address the permit issue.  I've worked too long and too hard to risk my business and reputation by doing anything that requires a permit without pulling one. I have language right in my contract that states that I will pull and pay for all necessary permits. Of course, I build the cost into my quotes.

Around here, the only objection I get to permits is the higher assessment the work will create at the next property valuation, and thus higher property taxes. My counter to that is that the work will also increase the value of the home for purposes of resale.


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## unclemoustache (Nov 20, 2009)

The Romans had a law about lawsuits: If you sued somebody and won, you got what you sued them for. If you sued them and lost, then you paid THEM what you were sueing them for. Good way to keep the lawsuits down, eh? I heard there was a senator that actually tried to get that idea through congress a few years ago. They shot it down, of course. Must have made too much sense.


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