# I want to be a carpenter



## jmartinmac (Jan 11, 2010)

I definitely feel like I'm getting a late start, but I'm trying to be true to myself. When I ask myself what skills I'd most like to have, the answer is clear -- the skills all of you have. It certainly is practical to consider money and career potential, but I feel like sincere interest and passion should come first. I've ignored those parts of myself and I keep bailing on the jobs/ careers I undertake. So, I've wasted a lot of time. I'm single and don't have a family now and I feel like if I bust my a$$ now I can accomplish quite a bit quickly. I hope I'm not being naive.

Thank you, all of you, for your advice, stories and input. I GREATLY appreciate it. I welcome more.

Jason


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

jmartinmac said:


> I definitely feel like I'm getting a late start, but I'm trying to be true to myself. When I ask myself what skills I'd most like to have, the answer is clear -- the skills all of you have. It certainly is practical to consider money and career potential, but I feel like sincere interest and passion should come first. I've ignored those parts of myself and I keep bailing on the jobs/ careers I undertake. So, I've wasted a lot of time. I'm single and don't have a family now and I feel like if I bust my a$$ now I can accomplish quite a bit quickly. I hope I'm not being naive.
> 
> Thank you, all of you, for your advice, stories and input. I GREATLY appreciate it. I welcome more.
> 
> Jason


If your posts truly reflect your thoughts, you will end up doing fine. This is a rough business but if you love it and are willing to soak up all the information available by guys who have "been there", you will be ahead of the game.

Too many guys get into this business as a "second choice" and "endure" the daily grind. If you truly want to be in this business (like me and most of the guys on this site), you will prosper.

Just be able to take the good with the bad!


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

jmartinmac said:


> I definitely feel like I'm getting a late start, but I'm trying to be true to myself. SI hope I'm not being naive.
> 
> Thank you, all of you, for your advice, stories and input. I GREATLY appreciate it. I welcome more.
> 
> Jason


I'm not sure how strong the carpenter's union is in your state - I think you are in a "right to work" state, so probably not - but I encourage you to try to get into the apprenticeship program.

Here in the Northwest, it's a four year program and you are required to attend a week long class every three months or so in everything from concrete, framing, interior finish, drywall, and siding, to certifications for welding or various types of equipment like scissor lifts, booms, forklifts, and all terrain fork lifts.

As a first term apprentice, the expectation is that while your skill level may be minimal (you may have never even picked up a hammer or a screw gun), you are hard working and want to learn. While you learn 'theory' in the classroom courses, 95% of the program is on the job training.

If your state is anything like Washington or (god forbid) Oregon, then construction sucks right now, but employers are always looking for good apprentices because they are a cheap source of labor, so you'll eventually get on somewhere and once you do, if you are a good worker, you will probably stay employed much more than most journeymen.

If the union isn't your thing, and on this site unions aren't very popular, there are usually non-union apprenticeship programs as well. I know out here the Association of General Contractors (AGC) has a structured program similar to the carpenter's union.

I do recommend you try the union route if you can since you can start getting health and retirement benefits right away. Out here 1st term union apprentices start at $15.65/hour plus health benefits.

It can be tougher to get the same level of benefits from non-union shops if you are just starting out. 

I know a lot of guys who were your age or older when they started their careers as carpenters, so don't let your age discourage you.

Good luck!:thumbsup:


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

tcleve4911 said:


> oh yeah....don't expect to get rich with money:no:


I'll second this. The satisfaction of creation and the self-reliance that goes with this business are what appeal to me.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

custrel said:


> I'm not sure how strong the carpenter's union is in your state - I think you are in a "right to work" state, so probably not - but I encourage you to try to get into the apprenticeship program.


You mention all the good things about the union, there are some bad things too. I tried the union in the Pacific Northwest, I hated it. Everyone kept telling me nothing but good things about it. They didn't tell me you get screwed with taxes and union dues, $20 an hour union equals about $13 an hour non-union. You spend half your time looking for work, then when you go to the Seattle union hall and say "hi, I'm looking for work" the lady at the desk yells "so are 300 other people!" and throws a list in your face. The experience you get is crap, unless you want to set forms the rest of your life. Union carpenters are clueless to anything besides concrete, which doesn't give you very good experience if you want to start your own business later. 

I can name way more disadvantages to the union around here. But like you said, that's not going to apply to where he's at.


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## Panzer5 (Oct 21, 2008)

I don't know what your time commitments are, but you might try volunteering with Habitat for Humanity as well. They've usually got some great folks working & you'd be doing some good work for the community (very handy later on when you're starting your own business & talking to homeowners - they seem to like contractors who've done some charity work in my experience).

If you've got time on Thurs / Fridays (i.e. you're looking for site work, but not finding as much as you want (winter is generally slow)) you might volunteer to work with Habitat's framing crews. Just call them up & talk with them.

I did that & it was a great experience.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

31 isn't a late start...We get kids out of highschool, and even out of trade school who don't get the whole picture. 

Once you're over the partying, have some responsiblity and you understand how to listen and learn, you can pick up the skill to make up for lost time.

The hard part (for me) is to see your HS/college drinking buddies making 4x the money you'll make. Carpentry is ridiculously under rated as far as public opinion is concerned. Knowledge and experience is as important as any degree'd profession and requires alot of soul searching to choose carpentry as your career.

Many here could easily be doctors making 6 digits. I want to tell you you're making a bad decision, but there's nothing like being able to say "I Built That!"


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> Many here could easily be doctors making 6 digits. I want to tell you you're making a bad decision, but there's nothing like being able to say "I Built That!"


Personally I'd hate being a doctor. 8 years of school followed by however many years of low-pay residency (depending on your specialty) to finally get to the point where you're making six figures, but you're probably a half million in debt thanks to student loans, auto loans, home loans, etc. Banks know you're good for it with such a secure high-paying position, but every doctor I've ever known or worked for works a very stressful job 50+ hours a week, even late into their careers. The last doctor I did work for I didn't even see. We got there at 7AM and were greeted by his wife. We didn't leave until 8PM and he was still at work (on a Saturday no less and he was 60+ years old).

Moral: Don't be fooled. There is very little "easy" money out there, no matter how much our friends like to talk themselves up. I've met just as many unhappy rich people as broke, because after the shine of all that money wears off, you have to deal with all the sacrifices you made to get to that point. In my opinion, you've made the right choice by making your job something you love.


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Everyone kept telling me nothing but good things about it. They didn't tell me you get screwed with taxes and union dues, $20 an hour union equals about $13 an hour non-union. You spend half your time looking for work,
> 
> I can name way more disadvantages to the union around here. But like you said, that's not going to apply to where he's at.


Well that's a bit of an exaggeration. Current union wage in SW Washington/OR for a 1st term apprentice - someone with ZERO carpentry experience -is 15.65/hour. Out of that only $.60/hour goes to dues -and that is tax deductible. 

So yeah, you are actually keeping only $15.05 out of the $15.65 you earn, but $15/hour + full benefits for a carpenter with no experience is pretty good for this region.

The taxes are the same whether you are union or not, so I don't know what that has to do with anything.

But you are right about the union not doing much to help you find work other than giving you a list of contractors who are hiring. Most guys I know just hustle it up the old fashioned way.

But like I said, the union isn't for everyone. It just has a well-structured apprenticeship program. But like I said, so does the AGC, so if someone wants to learn how to be a carpenter, I recommend either program.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

custrel said:


> Well that's a bit of an exaggeration. Current union wage in SW Washington/OR for a 1st term apprentice - someone with ZERO carpentry experience -is 15.65/hour. Out of that only $.60/hour goes to dues -and that is tax deductible.


When I entered the union as an apprentice, they tested everyones skills before accepting them. People with no experience did not have the skills to pass their test, so they were not allowed into the union.



> So yeah, you are actually keeping only $15.05 out of the $15.65 you earn, but $15/hour + full benefits for a carpenter with no experience is pretty good for this region.
> 
> The taxes are the same whether you are union or not, so I don't know what that has to do with anything.


It depends how you look at it, I had to pay an hourly and a monthly union due. Then it put me in a higher tax bracket, so I ended up paying taxes on money that I didn't even keep. On top of that, I couldn't get into a low income housing apartment because I made too much money. Even though my net pay was actually less than what I was making before, they only look at the gross pay. If I had my non-union job, I would have been making more money and been able to get into a low income housing apartment for really cheap. As far as the union dues being tax deductible, well I didn't have enough equity to make that work, so that didn't mean anything. 

As soon as I left the union, I went from making $20 an hour to $13 an hour, and I found my net pay was about the same. Though the new non-union company I worked for offered slightly better benefits than the union offered, which is unusual, it didn't affect it that much. But no matter which way you look at the numbers, you can't argue with how much goes into your bank account. 

Another thing I found out about the union that I didn't like, is if you move outside their jurisdiction, then your pension disappears. You can work in the union for 20 years, decide to move, and then your whole pension is gone. What do they do with that money? keep it? Great benefits huh? 



> you are right about the union not doing much to help you find work other than giving you a list of contractors who are hiring. Most guys I know just hustle it up the old fashioned way.


Another inconvenience, I have to drive all over Western Washington in search of job sites that look like they are union. Then walk up to them and say "Are you in need of help?" They say "no", then I have to keep on doing that. Non-union is a little easier when you can just look in the newspaper and pick up the phone. 



> like I said, the union isn't for everyone. It just has a well-structured apprenticeship program. But like I said, so does the AGC, so if someone wants to learn how to be a carpenter, I recommend either program.


You are right, I just mentioned a few of the bad things about the union. And I can keep going if I wanted listing the drawbacks to it based on my experience being in the union. But for some people the pro's might outweigh the cons. But don't think it's all just wonderful, there are lots of downsides to it that you won't see in non-union work.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> Too many guys get into this business as a "second choice" and "endure" the daily grind. If you truly want to be in this business (like me and most of the guys on this site), you will prosper.


 
ain't that the truth.

I'd go for it man, the only thing that would keep me back is if the job you have now is high paying with lots of bennies as well as a relaxed atmospher where you don't have to hustle your but off. You won't get that in this business.

But I'd rather have a job I like and enjoy than one that I hate. Was just talking with a lawyer who was explaining everyones messed up personal lives and how they work all day and night at these big law firms. Make big bucks and have all kinds of great "stuff" but that's it.

but then again the job I'm doing right now isn't any fun...... sitting inside doing bids............ and setting work up for the next two weeks.


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## cbchris (Jan 4, 2010)

> I definitely feel like I'm getting a late start, but I'm trying to be true to myself.


You're doing the right thing, good luck whichever path you take!


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## LeeChimko (Feb 9, 2010)

jmartin I was going to post something similar to this a few days ago but I also didn't know if this forum was the right place due to the registration saying that the forum was only for contractors. I know exactly how you feel with all the uncertainties of the economy right now and deciding to go into the trades, as opposed to university or college, is a tough decision to make no matter how strongly you believe it's the right path for you. I really don't have much advice to give you seeing as I'm probably one of the least experienced carpenters on the forum, but all I can say is that you're not alone brother, it's gonna be a tough road, but in the end, you'll know you made the right choice, for you, and no one else.


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## curtis fulton (Jan 29, 2010)

yep dont apoligise for your post , hey we all had a start from somewhere wish you the best of luck


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## LeeChimko (Feb 9, 2010)

Go to Youtube and search for “Carpenter's Apprentice Training Center”click on the first video and start watching at about 4:20. There are tons of guys like you out there starting in their 30's, don't worry about it. (I'd post a link but you need 15+ posts to do so)


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## DrewD (Jun 10, 2007)

You might want to look into a community college in your area that offers Associate degree programs in either Architectural Engineering or Construction Engineering. I am finishing up my degree and about 70% of the night class students are all in their late 30's or early 40's and come from various construction trades. I knows its not direct carpentry experience, but every class you can take will help in the long run.


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## RCA600 (Feb 16, 2010)

Make sure u hit the right nail


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## billy d (Mar 12, 2008)

Go for it my friend live the dream,one day you will look at a job and say I built that wrap your tools up turn your back on it and walk away.
It's called job satisfaction no better feeling in this world.


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## LeeChimko (Feb 9, 2010)

billy d said:


> Go for it my friend live the dream,one day you will look at a job and say I built that wrap your tools up turn your back on it and walk away.
> It's called job satisfaction no better feeling in this world.


Hell, I built a small ramp for my boss' daughter awhile back, I walk by that thing almost every day and still feel damn proud.


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## RobQuillin (Oct 27, 2009)

If you want to be a well rounded carpenter you need both experience and education. I don't mean that you have to go back to school and register for a masters degree but you will need to read everything you can get your hands on and talk to everyone you can talk to that seems to know what they are talking about. The more you do this you will start seeing a trend that will tell you what information is good information and what information is just someone talking to sound good. If you do this you will also realize that there is more than one way to achieve the same goal. If you can understand that then you will be able to think on your feet and adapt if there are unexpected problems that arise on the job. 
Secondly I would suggest you try to get in with a remodeler. In remodle you will be able to get exposure to aspects of construction that you might not get to see in new construction. Remodelers have to learn to deal with a structure that is out of plumb, square, and level and need to make the addition blend seamlessly. This is a skill that not all can do. 
I have a helper that just wouldn't let me forget about him when he was looking for a job. He would call regularly but not to being a pain and he would just let me know that if I had anything come up he was interested in working with me. When I had a job open up he even was willing to work for a day or two for free just to let me see what he could do. Since then he has become the best helper I have ever had and he has learned everything that I would expect him to learn plus some. My point is that in this economic climate you are going to have to get agressive with your persuite of a job but be selective as to who you want to learn from. Do your homework to see who has the skills that you are wanting to learn and approach them. Be honest and realize that you are asking someone to teach you the skills that they have developed to set them apart from their compitition. If you respect that then they are more likely to respect you. Good luck.:thumbsup:


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