# Starting up



## prowork (Oct 5, 2012)

I liked this particular advice below. I'll share my story with you as I can relate to looking young and not being taken seriously.

I also got started in entrepreneurism young. I got into construction business when I was 22 (currently 24). At 22 I looked easily 18. I had gotten masters degree in accounting and was nearly a CPA so I was extremely mature and well spoken. I had worked in the construction division of an accounting firm so I had tons of business knowledge but no trade knowledge. MY partner was my age, but looked older, and was the tradesman but still didn't know everything. 

We knew right off the bat that me looking young would probably be a downfall. We combatted by maintaining a very professional image, magnets on trucks, polo shirts, professional website etc, we did everything we could to make ourselves seem larger then we really were.... and if anybody asked, I was just an employee. Most customers just thought I was one of many salesman working for the company so they had no hesitations about my age. 



killerdecks said:


> I always sold jobs and hired guys that were smarter than me in a particular trade, learned *ALL* he had to give, got another one.
> 
> Listening to some bonehead foreman hollering @ you all day for whatever reason is the slow and painful way. Real slow.
> 
> ...


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## 18withtools (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for all the great advice. It's been helpfull. 

I know when I start a company I will be doing basic and oddball work. Nothing huge, Ime sure. I like the idea of not calling my self a handyman. A carpentry company offering handyman service sounds great. As pointed out it also leaves room to expand.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

18withtools said:


> Thanks for all the great advice. It's been helpfull.
> 
> I know when I start a company I will be doing basic and oddball work. Nothing huge, Ime sure. I like the idea of not calling my self a handyman. A carpentry company offering handyman service sounds great. As pointed out it also leaves room to expand.


Hire old guys, 40 year old sales people, they'll be taken serious and than you go do the work. 

The ability in the USA to make money is in no way reflected apon the amount of hard back breaking work one does. But more by the carelful manipulations of the funds available to you, also, being able to realize your shortcomings, have some one else fill that void for you, who is just looking for a job. You are building a business. They are working a job. Let them work. For you.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

18withtools said:


> Thanks for all the great advice. It's been helpfull.
> 
> I know when I start a company I will be doing basic and oddball work. Nothing huge, Ime sure. I like the idea of not calling my self a handyman. A carpentry company offering handyman service sounds great. As pointed out it also leaves room to expand.


Good idea. The more professional you sound the more you will get paid.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> Yeah, I mean sure education is important but blueprints on a house are not real impressive to me. It's still just a house. Reading a print isn't hard and with CAD the skill isn't even nearly the same as it use to be. This nation has has some seriously beautiful and well designed architecture drawn by people who knew what they were doing. I've worked with a lot of architects on some pretty complex projects and most weren't that smart IMO.
> 
> But I do understand your point. WORTH has nothing to do with a set of plans though, while there's certainly a fair share of bums to say that you HAVE to do this or that to be successful isn't fair. Most people in this industry retire broke. That's an unavoidable fact of life.
> 
> ...



Reading plans aint chit. Try framing a dome ceiling when your 18 with no experience. Or build anything custom when your 30 with no experience other than handyman stuff.

No offense, I have a lot of respect for you mike, but piping a custom home and building one properly is somewhat different.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> Yeah, I mean sure education is important but blueprints on a house are not real impressive to me. It's still just a house. Reading a print isn't hard and with CAD the skill isn't even nearly the same as it use to be. This nation has has some seriously beautiful and well designed architecture drawn by people who knew what they were doing. I've worked with a lot of architects on some pretty complex projects and most weren't that smart IMO.
> 
> But I do understand your point. WORTH has nothing to do with a set of plans though, while there's certainly a fair share of bums to say that you HAVE to do this or that to be successful isn't fair. Most people in this industry retire broke. That's an unavoidable fact of life.
> 
> ...


BTW, I never finished college. Im a tradesman turned builder. I value education, but more so self education than school.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Reading plans aint chit. Try framing a dome ceiling when your 18 with no experience. Or build anything custom when your 30 with no experience other than handyman stuff.
> 
> No offense, I have a lot of respect for you mike, but piping a custom home and building one properly is somewhat different.


I never said piping, you just assumed that. I was a carpenter before I was a plumber. I'm surrounded by multi million dollar mansions on lake homes. I've been around more than just a domed ceiling.

I'm not downplaying it or you, I hope you realize that. But it's still just a house.


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## 18withtools (Jan 13, 2013)

killerdecks said:


> Hire old guys, 40 year old sales people, they'll be taken serious and than you go do the work.
> 
> The ability in the USA to make money is in no way reflected apon the amount of hard back breaking work one does. But more by the carelful manipulations of the funds available to you, also, being able to realize your shortcomings, have some one else fill that void for you, who is just looking for a job. You are building a business. They are working a job. Let them work. For you.


Very good idea, when I get started I just might try to do that.

What would I pay them, Ime guessing a percentage of that offer or a flat rate?


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## stewart.knowles (Nov 20, 2010)

I was 19 when I got my license and started my business. I'm 27 now and still look 19, and deal with the age thing all the time. *But, you can play the age card to your advantage.* 

I got really involved with networking and social groups so people would know who I was and what I did for a living. You wouldn't believe the support I received from people wanting to see "the kid" succeed. Mainly because their "kid" my age was at home with no job and no drive. 

Find older business people and people within your field that will be retiring in the near future and have them mentor to you. Older builders, realtors, developers, and trade guys that are well established turn away or refer more work than you would realize. If you have their trust and they like you, they can feed you a lot of work as long as you don't make them look like an idiot for referring you. 

So if I can tell you anything it is to network your butt off with older people of all business models and become the most popular 18 year old with 40+ year old people. Be more professional than your competition and NEVER BE LATE. Under promise and over deliver.


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## KP Carpentry (Dec 14, 2012)

*starting up*

I too am a new remodeler. I am currently reading the book mark up and profit by michel stone and it is very helpful. The book goes threw every aspect of the business, and is written for the new guy that is just starting out. This book told me how to figure out mark up as well as other hidden problems that might happen as you start in this line of work. I would recommend this book as a must read for someone new to the business.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

KP Carpentry said:


> I too am a new remodeler. I am currently reading the book mark up and profit by michel stone and it is very helpful. The book goes threw every aspect of the business, and is written for the new guy that is just starting out. This book told me how to figure out mark up as well as other hidden problems that might happen as you start in this line of work. I would recommend this book as a must read for someone new to the business.


Maybe I should pick this book up. Has anyone else read it?


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## leeson1776 (Feb 6, 2012)

More on the legal side of things, which hasn't hardly been mentioned yet, see if you need a license for the services you're offering in your area. Have you looked into that yet? The only license I know of is a GC's license, but I'm guessing there may be a carpenter's license.

You should also set up a business as a legal entity. The easiest way to do that is to form a sole proprietorship. All that's required to do that is register a trade name with your secretary of state. Here it costs $20. This will allow you to open a business bank account with your business name, so people can write a check to your business. Note that a sole proprietorship gives you absolutely no protection- if you get sued and your insurance doesn't cover it, you are personally liable. 
A Limited Liability Corporation is another option, and though a little more involved and expensive to set up, will "limit your liability" in the event that you lose your a$$. 

Insurance is another consideration. If you are licensed, that licensing may require a minimum coverage. I have a 2mil policy and it costs $1000 a year, which is about average, but many people have much less coverage and pay maybe $400 to $600 a year for general liability. These are just ballpark figures for my industry in my area.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good luck!


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

Im going through a similar situation myself. Except I'm 32, and have been involved with project management and running multi million dollar businesses over the last 10 years. I will tell you that there is a lot more to understand on running a business properly than you may know right now. Trade skills is one thing, business another. 

My advice:

1. Work for someone else and build relationships. 
2. Save up operating capital. 
3. Learn and develop a business plan. 
4. Put your business plan in play. 
5. Spread your wings and fly, when you are ready to go.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

philcav7 said:


> Im going through a similar situation myself. Except I'm 32, and have been involved with project management and running multi million dollar businesses over the last 10 years. I will tell you that there is a lot more to understand on running a business properly than you may know right now. Trade skills is one thing, business another.
> 
> My advice:
> 
> ...


So what have you learned so far?


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## thezoo (Sep 13, 2008)

Have you tried score.org?


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

18withtools said:


> Very good idea, when I get started I just might try to do that.
> 
> What would I pay them, Ime guessing a percentage of that offer or a flat rate?


It all varies, But the general rules go like this:

1. pay em too much they have no incentive to look for leads other than what you provide, pay em too little, you'll do a lot of training. 

2. Never hire your old competition, they don't like you in the 1st place, and they already messed up their business don't let em mess up yours.

3. Don't let the crews and the sales force become buddies, soon you'll be looking for a job

4. Train the sales guy from the bottom up, no experience wanted or needed. Easier to train a virgin to be yours than and old whore who knows it all.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

killerdecks said:


> It all varies, But the general rules go like this:
> 
> 1. pay em too much they have no incentive to look for leads other than what you provide, pay em too little, you'll do a lot of training.
> 
> ...



I like number four. I agree that is often better to train someone the way you want them.


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