# What a mess!



## Hound Dog (Apr 3, 2010)

*Good morning people! New here. I’m a heavy mechanical contractor by trade but got a tile story I’d like to get some feedback on. I built a new townhouse a couple of years ago (When I say built that means every last screw. I even put the piles in the ground). To say the least I’m not a novice at this. Now for the story. We have two decks that come off the back of the house that we put down porcelain 12”X12” tile on it over Hard-Backer with a pre-mix adhesive. I went back to our supplier and faxed him to recommend the best grout for the job spelling out very clearly that the application was for exterior purposes ( I still have that paper work). He recommended Laticrete Spectralock epoxy grout. In my head I’m saying great! How could I possibly go wrong? The decks are wrapped in black facade metal (See pics below). I now have white crud spilling down on everything. Called Laticrete who promptly told me that Spectralock is not for exterior purposes and that my white crud is efflorescence seeping up from the tile adhesive. My answer? This is so called epoxy grout and your telling me there’s something seeping up though it? I left it at that for the time being and ordered a gallon of Eff-Ex to hopefully get this crap off my balconies. What’s your spin on this pro’s? Seal the grout or something better? Thanks in advance. Bob L​ 
*


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*hmmmmm,*

PRE MIXED ADHESIVE,,,??:whistling:whistling here we go, get ready, it's coming!:yawn: did you go to the introduction page HD?:whistling
Brian


----------



## Hound Dog (Apr 3, 2010)

PrestigeR&D said:


> PRE MIXED ADHESIVE,,,??:whistling:whistling here we go, get ready, it's coming!:yawn: did you go to the introduction page HD?:whistling
> Brian


Brain you wouldn't whan't to chime back in in give me straight answer.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Hd*

I already gave you 1 part of the problem, there are several issues going on here, but -that being said- be patient-, and please go introduce yourself to the community:thumbsup:
Thank you
Brian


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Well, my friend, there's no good news here.

Backing up....the cbu over the wood decking and the use of pre-mixed adhesive started this whole mess off wrong to begin with.

And now Laticrete is saying epoxy is efflorescent? That just doesn't make any sense. Spectralock doesn't use portland cement.

I hate to tell you, the original installation was done wrong. Hardi is not for an exterior application. Mastic should not be used in wet location nor on floors.

The only thing I would have done is use Spectralock. It IS acceptable for exterior application. 

Are you sure you didn't use a typical cementitious grout?

Sorry, it all needs to come up and be redone. Aside from the gutter aspect, this picture is how I'd construct it.

Go to schluter.com and search for the Ditra Handbook. Then read...


----------



## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Mastic....for an exterior application? 



:laughing:



Ahem......sorry, I couldn't resist. I'll go stand in the corner now.......

BTW, to the OP, you really shouldn't call yourself experienced, and then post a tile installation like that. Also, I simply don't believe Laticrete told you that.


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Greg,

Aren't you just putting (mineral) salt in his wound? :shifty:


----------



## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Greg,
> 
> Aren't you just putting (mineral) salt in his wound? :shifty:


Perhaps, but I don't think it's cool to spread disinformation.

Plus, what's with the very large bold type?


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

HS345 said:


> Perhaps, but I don't think it's cool to spread disinformation.


I was just makin a funny.....mineral salt...efflorescence.....no? :sad:

I agree. Spectralock IS acceptable for exterior and would NOT be the source of the problem.


----------



## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

angus242 said:


> I was just makin a funny.....mineral salt...efflorescence.....no? :sad:
> 
> I agree. Spectralock IS acceptable for exterior and would NOT be the source of the problem.


Yeah, I got the joke (good one), I'm just a bit grouchy today. I'm working on my taxes (or at least I'm s'posta be). :furious:


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Me thinks he,the OP,won't be back....:whistling


----------



## Hound Dog (Apr 3, 2010)

*First off Thanks for the quick replies. I should have gone into more detail about the sub-straight (Base). In fact let me go though this one step at a time. I didn’t put down the tile. You need a cooling tower on a skyscraper? Call me. I know my limitations. My tile guy Jerry did the whole house and some of the finest work I’ve ever seen. He put Onex down in one of the bathrooms that was just incredible. Unfortunately Jerry got home sick and went back to Poland to do what ever artisans do. The composition of the deck is as follows. 1” pitch over 36”, 4”X12” Paralams on 16” centers with a 1.25” rim board on front. Paralams are wrapped in Grace Butrisatic rubber membrain with weep hole in the bottom so they can breath. ¾”Advantech water resistant plywood was then put down (That company makes some of the greatest stuff since sliced bread). The plywood was then coated with four coats of a latex rubber encapsulater. I stand corrected. We used cement board not hardy-Backer. A six inch flashing was then applied up under the door thresh hold and then the tile. The seam under the door was then filled with urethane mastic. I wasn’t there the day Jerry put down the tile and I’m not sure what he used to adhere it. I can’t find a receipt for it and I’m going on my wife’s memory. I’ll let your own mind to play on that resource. I didn’t say that Laticrete was blaming the grout. They said it was coming up though the grout which is what I’m questioning. We didn’t want to see a gutter on the out side edge but if I got to put one in to deal with this, I will. Bob L*


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)




----------



## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Boy, this just keeps getting better, and better. Too much contradicting information to even begin to sift through. But let me at least offer my professional opinion........installer error. 

Seriously Bob, the large, bold type is entirely unnecessary.


----------



## Hound Dog (Apr 3, 2010)

HS345 said:


> Boy, this just keeps getting better, and better. Too much contradicting information to even begin to sift through. But let me at least offer my professional opinion........installer error.
> 
> Seriously Bob, the large, bold type is entirely unnecessary.


Sorry about that. It's the way I have it set up in Word. Most forum automaticly reset it.


----------



## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

HS345 said:


> BTW, to the OP, you really shouldn't call yourself experienced, and then post a tile installation like that.that.


"*To say the least I’m not a novice at this.*"


Was actually what he said:shifty: Where is the "stiting the pot" smiley when you need it.

Craig


----------



## Hound Dog (Apr 3, 2010)

charimon said:


> "*To say the least I’m not a novice at this.*"
> 
> 
> Was actually what he said:shifty: Where is the "stiting the pot" smiley when you need it.
> ...


Let me pose a question to ya. If you were freezing in the middle of January and you posted in the HVAC section of this forum because your heat wasn’t working? Do you think I would reply back to you in that two year old tone?


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Bob,

You have run into a tricky situation. Water is going to get beneath the tile. You cannot stop that. Regardless if mastic was used or not (still wrong adhesive), the TCNA says to use a modified thinset with porcelain. However, the latex additive in modified thinset can leech and cause what looks like efflorescence. 

Besides, the installation of the CBU would cause penetrations (screw/nail holes) in your membrane, no? This is why I recommend using Ditra/Kerdi-band as your waterproofing membrane over the ply. That with the combination of a non modified thinset (like Keraflor) over the Ditra + Spectrlock and there's nothing to cause "white crud".

I still say it needs to be redone. 

Let's hope Jerry used the proper thinset under the Onyx :whistling

and just so I don't get crucified by some jackass.....there are other materials which will also work just fine. I'm most experienced with Schluter so that's what I recommend.

& Bob...chill. You're getting FREE advice on how to fix _your _problem. A little razing when you first post an oppsie is not big deal.


----------



## Hound Dog (Apr 3, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Bob,
> 
> You have run into a tricky situation. Water is going to get beneath the tile. You cannot stop that. Regardless if mastic was used or not (still wrong adhesive), the TCNA says to use a modified thinset with porcelain. However, the latex additive in modified thinset can leech and cause what looks like efflorescence.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I’ve already resided to except the fact that if it’s got to come up, then so be it. Thank God it’s only 3X9’ times two. This is my only mistake on the house that I’ve encountered so far. I’ll be happy to eat it. Getting those railings down is going to be some *****. You had to be there getting them up. I will look further in to the info you provided. Thanks again. Bob L


----------



## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Bob, I apologize for my earlier comments, as I said, I'm grouchy today. 

If you are going to use Schluter for your balcony project, the best thing to do is contact your local Schluter rep. Schluter advocates a tailor made solution for exterior balconies, and there are no two alike, 'cept maybe those two in your pics.


----------

