# Tankless Heater Installation



## Ramblinwreck (Jan 1, 2008)

Got a problem I need some help with. Customer wants to replace his old gas hot water heater with a new tankless one, probably Rannai, but I got a problem. He needs between 6-8 GPM for his two-story 4 bedroom home and to achieve that output we need a 3/4 inch gas supply. That wouldn’t be a problem I’d just run a new line but the existing HW heater is in his attic, it would take me a week just to run the line. 

So, he and I thought why not put the new tankless heater in his crawl space, it’s about 5 feet in places. The gas meter is about 20 feet away so running a ¾ inch line is a breeze and just tie into the existing hot water line in at his kitchen sink. Then cap off his existing HW heater and gas supply in the attic. The hot water supply would essentially be reversing its flow. Anyone see any issues with this??

Thanks.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

GET A PLUMBER WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!

YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS DOING THIS JOB!

I hope anyone giving you technical advice is prepared to accept the liability his advice carries if you kill someone.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

22rifle said:


> GET A PLUMBER WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!
> 
> I hope anyone giving you technical advice is prepared to accept the liability his advice carries if you kill someone.


I highly reccomend getting someone who is licensed and experienced. We just had a talk on another forum about an unlicensed handyman who caused the death of a child due to a gas explosion.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

If you can't spell Rinnai you probably have no business installing it.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> If you can't spell Rinnai you probably have no business installing it.


good one, I did not spot that one KTS:laughing:


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

If he strapped the heater to the meter, he could just run a power steering hose to the gas and water supply. A few clamps and your in business. But make sure you get a permit first and always have the work inspected. The clamps must be stainless steel of course or it won't pass inspection.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Those straps have to be copper plated or it will cause a corrosive build up.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Those straps have to be copper plated or it will cause a corrosive build up.


I thought they had to be lead coated.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

They can be but you have to ground it 1st.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> They can be but you have to ground it 1st.


I heard you have to ground it to the sewer. Is that true?


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Yep use that green wire that you see in the trench.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

man, have I been messing up. I been using the black wire to ground with!


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*I see two options for the fella.*

*1) Get a plumber and sleep at night knowing it was done legitimatly & insured.*

*2) Look around online until you can find a DIY site that might give the correct information from a total stranger (most plumbers won't freely oiffer this kind of advice), hope you did it right and try to ignore the fact that if anything goes wrong with it over the course of 7 years, the statute of limitations for a criminal act aren't up yet.*

*One small detail on the gas, venting or even the temperature could land you in court...with luck, it's only civil court.*


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

USP45 said:


> man, have I been messing up. I been using the black wire to ground with!


:laughing::laughing:

*HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN!*


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## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

Thought it was the red one?? Or maybe the blue?? Guess I should call the OP over to figure it out for me!:w00t:


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

I am not a plumber. I do HVAC work. The plumbers advise does seem valid, this stuff is not rocket science, but you need to know what you are doing (just like hvac, or electrical). Having said that, you can call the gas company and request a 1lb meter and install pressure regulators on all gas appliances. This will allow you to use the existing gas line. 

But, read up on this. Because if you mess up, you could do a lot of damage.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> *HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN!*


an electrician? What, are you crazy? he is the one that started the water leak on the never ending story thread!


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

flashheatingand said:


> I am not a plumber. I do HVAC work. The plumbers advise does seem valid, this stuff is not rocket science, but you need to know what you are doing (just like hvac, or electrical). Having said that, you can call the gas company and request a 1lb meter and install pressure regulators on all gas appliances. This will allow you to use the existing gas line.
> 
> But, read up on this. Because if you mess up, you could do a lot of damage.


Good grief! Don't tell this guy anything about gas systems like that. He HAS NO BUSINESS TOUCHING it. Period, end of sentence.

Besides, you have no business trying to give advice to begin with. A 1lb meter? What in thunder is that? 

Look, I know you meant well. But we are trying to keep people from getting KILLED here. And you are hurting the cause.

PS. Yes, I know what you meant when you said a 1lb meter. Ain't no such thing however. First of all, they don't set the pressure at 1 pound. Second of all, it ain't the meter that controls the pressure.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

22rifle said:


> Good grief! Don't tell this guy anything about gas systems like that. He HAS NO BUSINESS TOUCHING it. Period, end of sentence.
> 
> Besides, you have no business trying to give advice to begin with. A 1lb meter? What in thunder is that?
> 
> ...


darn, I was going to install mine that way:whistling


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## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

:bangin:not rocket science? But yet a one pound meter and an exsiting line will do the trick Its not science its just common sense. HIRE IT OUT!


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Won't happen here, I promise.*
> 
> *Quite frankly I wish we could, having to repipe gas mains to accomodate new fixtures is a pain in the ass, but in the same respect..we don't have too many in-home explosions or fires here as a result of gas leaks.*



If it's gonna leak at 2 pounds it's gonna leak at 1/4 pound too!


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Oh yes, in a five hundred hours of school, five year apprenticeship cakewalk kinda way.*


500 hrs and 5 year apprenticeship just to run gas pipe? You mean to say that as a licensed plumber, they will still make you take that much training?...I know this stuff can be dangerous, but one doesn't need that much training to install gas pipe.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Won't happen here, I promise.*
> 
> *Quite frankly I wish we could, having to repipe gas mains to accomodate new fixtures is a pain in the ass, but in the same respect..we don't have too many in-home explosions or fires here as a result of gas leaks.*


I don't see the big deal. As long as everybody is open, and upfront, and the system holds pressure, there should be no problem. Despite what the gas company says, they want consumption, so why would they want to make things difficult on their customers?


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

22rifle said:


> If it's gonna leak at 2 pounds it's gonna leak at 1/4 pound too!


*It sure is.*
*At 1/4 psi the probability of the methane being dispersed is a little better than a higher volume of gas on the same leak.*


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## Ramblinwreck (Jan 1, 2008)

Ok…Ok…let me see if I have all this straight. Seems we have two options, Option 1 is to ask the gas company to install a new meter that will supply sufficient gas pressure so the existing 0.5 inch line will support 180,000 btu’s (a Rinnai 75LSi). Need to install pressure regulators at each gas appliance. Option 2, seems the jury is still out on option 2 of installing the Rinnai in the crawl space, run a new 0.75 inch gas line from the existing meter and plumb the hot water to the nearest fixture. Anybody want to weigh in on option 2?? And, yes we do plan to hire a licensed plumber when it’s all decided. Thanks.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Ramblin, option #1 isn't an option...not in my state at least.*
*Gas co's won't provide residential service over 1/2 psi..you can inquire, but I doubt it.*

*You really should be going over these details with your own plumber...here you have guys from all over the country grabbing at straws...and at least one guy here who thinks plumbing is just a part time hobby.*

*You need to speak with a local.*


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Ramblin, option #1 isn't an option...not in my state at least.*
> *Gas co's won't provide residential service over 1/2 psi..you can inquire, but I doubt it.*
> 
> *You really should be going over these details with your own plumber...here you have guys from all over the country grabbing at straws...and at least one guy here who thinks plumbing is just a part time hobby.*
> ...


Sir, I do not think of plumbing as a hobby (i will bite at the bait). I never have given advise about plumbing issues. Apparantly, in Mass, plumbers and gas piping are seperate trades, and you don't know that much about the specs of running gas lines ("the weight of the meter"?). Instead of saying that the gas company will not permit the increase in pressure, you could actually ask about the details, it could be of benefit to you in the future. I certainly wouldn't act as arrogantly as you did. Where I live, water heating appliances is work for both hvac guys and plumbers. I had an issue similiar to this guy, and this is what I did. It was legal, and all is well as far as the home-owners go.
Frankly, the plumbing room at this website tends to be a little more interesting than most of the posts in the hvac room. I thought that this was a site to bounce off ideas. The general response was "get a pro". Man, that aint helpful to anybody. You and a couple other plumbers thought that the idea I gave was crazy talk, while some other tradesmen acknowleged that my idea was feasible. Come on Homey, the fact that you visit this site on your own free time indicates that plumbing is more than just a job to you as well. 

Have a good week.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

flashheatingand said:


> Sir, I do not think of plumbing as a hobby (i will bite at the bait). I never have given advise about plumbing issues. Apparantly, in Mass, plumbers and gas piping are seperate trades, and you don't know that much about the specs of running gas lines ("the weight of the meter"?). Instead of saying that the gas company will not permit the increase in pressure, you could actually ask about the details, it could be of benefit to you in the future. I certainly wouldn't act as arrogantly as you did. Where I live, water heating appliances is work for both hvac guys and plumbers. I had an issue similiar to this guy, and this is what I did. It was legal, and all is well as far as the home-owners go.
> Frankly, the plumbing room at this website tends to be a little more interesting than most of the posts in the hvac room. I thought that this was a site to bounce off ideas. The general response was "get a pro". Man, that aint helpful to anybody. You and a couple other plumbers thought that the idea I gave was crazy talk, while some other tradesmen acknowleged that my idea was feasible. Come on Homey, the fact that you visit this site on your own free time indicates that plumbing is more than just a job to you as well.
> 
> Have a good week.


If I could see the job I am certain I could come up with an excellent solution. But there is no way anyone can give the proper advise about gas piping and equipment over the internet. And most people should not be given advice about gas piping and equipment over the internet.

The best advice anyone could give about gas piping and equipment over the internet is "Get a pro." Gas is not something a DIYer should mess with. Gas is not something anyone should mess with unless they are trained.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

*From our sister site*

*Gas Explosion While Plumber On Job

See what can happen, now go on out there and play with your gas line.
* 
NOTE; BOTH THE PLUMBER AND GAS CO. WERE BOTH ON SITE AND SIGNED OFF ON THIS 
GAS SYSTEM MOMENTS BEFORE THIS EXPLOSION


July 27, 2008

Councilman calls for probe into Flushing building blast
BY ANDREW STRICKLER | [email protected]; The Associa
July 27, 2008
As fire marshals sifted through the wreckage of a Queens building damaged by 
a powerful gas explosion on Friday, a city councilman yesterday called for 
an investigation into the blast that hurt 17 people, two of them critically.

"Some residents there have been told by people working in the building that 
there were serious problems with the gas in the building," said Councilman 
John Liu, who represents the area of Flushing where the building is located.

The explosion on Sanford Avenue, apparently sparked in a second-story 
apartment kitchen, sent flames shooting into other apartments, buckled walls 
and knocked air conditioners out of windows.

Firefighters said two people were critically injured and a third had serious 
wounds. Fourteen others, including six firefighters, suffered minor 
injuries, the Fire Department said.



The fire caused no structural damage, but charring, water damage, broken 
windows and collapsed interior partitions left 37 of the building's roughly 
90 apartments uninhabitable, the Buildings Department said. A fire 
department spokesman said yesterday the exact cause of the blaze is still 
under investigation.

Gas and water to the six-story building were shut off following a June 11 
kitchen fire, according to Con Edison officials.

After the department received notice that repairs had been made, a 
supervisor and two mechanics arrived at the building Friday afternoon, 
according to Con Ed spokesman Chris Olert.

The group used a portable gauge to test pressure in six "riser" lines that 
carry gas into the building and found all six to be in working order, Olert 
said. The gas was turned on by 4:13 p.m. The explosion struck 11 minutes 
later.

A plumber employed or under contract with building owner Alwall Construction 
Corp. was with the crew and was aware the gas had been turned back on, Olert 
said. Attempts to reach an Alwall official yesterday were unsuccessful.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.


Related topic galleries: Consolidated Edison Incorporated, Fires, Emergency 
Incidents, Explosions
All topics


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

flashheatingand said:


> Sir, I do not think of plumbing as a hobby (i will bite at the bait). I never have given advise about plumbing issues. Apparantly, in Mass, plumbers and gas piping are seperate trades, and you don't know that much about the specs of running gas lines ("the weight of the meter"?). Instead of saying that the gas company will not permit the increase in pressure, you could actually ask about the details, it could be of benefit to you in the future. I certainly wouldn't act as arrogantly as you did. Where I live, water heating appliances is work for both hvac guys and plumbers. I had an issue similiar to this guy, and this is what I did. It was legal, and all is well as far as the home-owners go.
> Frankly, the plumbing room at this website tends to be a little more interesting than most of the posts in the hvac room. I thought that this was a site to bounce off ideas. The general response was "get a pro". Man, that aint helpful to anybody. You and a couple other plumbers thought that the idea I gave was crazy talk, while some other tradesmen acknowleged that my idea was feasible. Come on Homey, the fact that you visit this site on your own free time indicates that plumbing is more than just a job to you as well.
> 
> Have a good week.


*The "weight" comment was a joke regarding your post...read your posts.*
*Arrogance is referring to a plumbing or gas fitting license as a cakewalk.*
*Where'd you get the impression I'm from Mass?*


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *The "weight" comment was a joke regarding your post...read your posts.*
> *Arrogance is referring to a plumbing or gas fitting license as a cakewalk.*
> *Where'd you get the impression I'm from Mass?*


I don't know what to say, I wasn't being condescending towards you or the plumbing trade as a whole. Honestly, where I live, the gas fitting license was a cakewalk. The test was relatively easy. I certainly don't claim to be a genius, and I passed with a little bit of review reading material from the gas company. Know how to read the tables, know the rules on venting, and pipe sizing. It's nothing that a journeyman plumber should have a problem with. So, the way I see it, if you already have a plumbing license, one might as well take the time to get the gas pipe endorsement as well. Having said that, perhaps the requirements where you live are different. I am Guilty for assuming. 

I never ever said that plumbing is cakewalk. Wet crawlspaces, clogged waste lines, or digging, anyway you look at it, theres a lot of potential for a grumpy situation. As mentioned earlier, I just come to this room because it's pretty interesting to me and I think I can learn somethings here that I can take with me in the hvac field.

How did I figure your from Mass? Nobody from outside of Mass is a fan of the Patriots


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

22rifle said:


> If I could see the job I am certain I could come up with an excellent solution. But there is no way anyone can give the proper advise about gas piping and equipment over the internet. And most people should not be given advice about gas piping and equipment over the internet.
> 
> The best advice anyone could give about gas piping and equipment over the internet is "Get a pro." Gas is not something a DIYer should mess with. Gas is not something anyone should mess with unless they are trained.


I agree with your takes (nobody should just take advise from someone on the internet blindly, and don't play around with gas because someone can get hurt). 

I just intended to let the guy know that he might be able to keep original location. This would save him a bit of money (that vent pipe isn't cheap) in materials and time. If I simply said...just increase the pressure you'll be ok,... that would be irresponsible. But, I mentioned several times, get things inspected and be upfront.

Having said all that, perhaps I was a little eager to show everybody "look at what I know" without considering what could happen. So I deserve what came my way (a little bit). Well, if you can't take the heat...


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*In MA a plumber does LP, Gas & plumbing...and yeah, the Pats logo would be a giveaway. (duh)*

*We have seperate LP & gas licenses, but a plumbing license covers them all...each take an apprenticeship.*
*They won't let anyone walk in, take a multiple choice test and walk away with a license, maybe you can see the insultive nature of your comment to some of us.*
*I'm not sure where you're from, but you may have picked up on an air of defensiveness with the boys here when it comes to the trade, especially with gas.*

*In my area CO deaths, explosions & fires are in the news every year, in the winter especially.*
*When a homeowner or handyman hop online & recieve encouragement to dabble in gas work, some of us view it as criminally stupid.*
*In my state, it is criminal.*


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## Ramblinwreck (Jan 1, 2008)

Frankly guys, I posted my question to avoid appearing like a dang fool when I do have a pro over to give me a quote on this job (a fool and his money are soon parted).
I hoped this forum would provide both the homeowner and I with enough information so we could either discuss these concepts intelligently with a plumber or discard them altogether. We’ll just look elsewhere for advice.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and recommend two things. 

First of all, let your plumber make the suggestions. You and the homeowner can then bounce the pros and cons around with the plumber. 

As a plumber, I find it uncomfortable when I'm asked to do something I think isn't in the best interest of everyone involved and like to have some time to consider if I want to lay that option on the table. As a professional, that is _my _job, not the job of a non-plumber GC or home owner. No offense, but when it comes to installing high btu gas appliances, there is a lot to consider beyond venting and gas supply. There are things like make up and combustion air, clearance to combustibles in the event of a malfunction, etc.

Any gas burning appliance in the crawl space under a floor that is not at the minimum fire rated and properly fire stopped it a stupid idea. I'm sorry, but it is. 

Don't think that just because you know something about this subject that you are qualified to discuss it with folks that deal with this day in and day out on a professional and technical level. You don't argue with your doctor, do you? Then why would you argue with the pros here?

Oh, and if you want to know what the gas purveyor in your area will and won't do, why don't you contact them?


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## Michael Thomas (Feb 25, 2008)

"Frankly guys, I posted my question to avoid appearing like a dang fool when I do have a pro over to give me a quote on this job (a fool and his money are soon parted). I hoped this forum would provide both the homeowner and I with enough information so we could either discuss these concepts intelligently with a plumber or discard them altogether. We’ll just look elsewhere for advice."

Sorry I found this a bit late.

I don't sell, install or service tankless units, I just use them, I have 5 Takagi tankless heaters at my home, office and rental properties, all are now working well, but we encountered quite a few issues getting everything working properly, mostly as the result of the utility and the installers unfamiliarity with tankless installation requirements.

I've put up a web page about our experiences and how to avoid the problems we encountered, unfortunately it appears that I'm not allowed to post URL's until I've made 15 posts here, so:

Go to the site in my signature below
Scroll down the list of articles on the right hand side to: "Tankless Heater Installation - Don't end up in cold water"

As you can see I agree with the posters here it's very important to find an competent installer, but in my experience that's easier said than done.

Hopefully you will find the material above useful in understanding some of the issues well enough to evaluate installers.


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## G&J (May 4, 2008)

22rifle said:


> GET A PLUMBER WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!
> 
> YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS DOING THIS JOB!
> 
> I hope anyone giving you technical advice is prepared to accept the liability his advice carries if you kill someone.



I am not a plumber. I just built a new home and hired licensed plumber recommended by two GCs and the local inspector. 

1. Ran vent pipes behind three lavs where the medicine cabinets should have gone

2. Messed up tub valve took three months of return visits, I finally took the valve out and found an O ring jammed in the body

3. Installed dishwasher and flooded kitchen floor lifting half of new ceramic tile floor

4. Plummed tankless HW heater directly when instructions clearly state to use unions to get access to filter.

5. Same HW heater vent pipe is melting vinyl siding 

6. Installed 10' of 1" copper at well pump then transitioned to 1/2" pex ( 14' ) because it was easier to run through floor joists then went back to 1" Copper to feed cold water manifold and water heater.

I should have hired the handyman. I realize this is the exception and not the rule but all the licenses in the world aren't worth CRAP if if somebody doesn't care about their work.

just needed to vent


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## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

G&J said:


> I am not a plumber. I just built a new home and hired licensed plumber recommended by two GCs and the local inspector.
> 
> 1. Ran vent pipes behind three lavs where the medicine cabinets should have gone
> 
> ...


Your right its not. Hate to hear it but it sounds like you got shafted by the GCs and the inspector.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

G&J said:


> I should have hired the handyman. I realize this is the exception and not the rule but all the licenses in the world aren't worth CRAP if if somebody doesn't care about their work.
> 
> just needed to vent


*In lieu of the thread you opted to post this on, some might get the impression you're looking for a fight, or to validate an opinion that plumbers aren't adequate.*

*I see it as a rant, I agree...there are some severe hacks out there.*

*Licensing doesn't guarantee competancy, however, specifically hiring non-licensed hacks is almost guaranteed incompetancy.*

*Welcome to the forum, try mingling a little with some of the long time member GC's, get a feel for the place.*


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## ILPlumber (Aug 26, 2007)

Seems to me it would be easier to just upsize the gas line size in the crawl to handle the load. Bumping pressure is a bad idea. It would take quite a bit of time by the time you vent all those new gas regulators to the outdoors.

If we are lucky we get 2 psi , maybe 5 if its a huge usage in a commercial setting.


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## valerko (Jan 11, 2008)

I knew there was a reason I don't really like plumbers.
Making a rocket science out of ***** flowing down hill:clap::clap:

Seriously some of you guys have to get off your high horses,you might be charging like doctors,but you're not.:laughing::laughing:

Poor guy is looking for advice and this is how you treat him? Not cool at all.
Don't even think about picking up a hammer and staring framing the house or something.:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

valerko said:


> Don't even think about picking up a hammer and staring framing the house or something.:thumbup::thumbup:


I won't start, I don't take your work away from you, and with do respect, I hope you will follow suit.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

valerko said:


> I knew there was a reason I don't really like plumbers.
> Making a rocket science out of ***** flowing down hill:clap::clap:
> 
> Seriously some of you guys have to get off your high horses,you might be charging like doctors,but you're not.:laughing::laughing:
> ...


I couldn't afford the fuel for my yacht when I was a doctor.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

valerko said:


> I knew there was a reason I don't really like plumbers.
> Making a rocket science out of ***** flowing down hill:clap::clap:
> 
> Seriously some of you guys have to get off your high horses,you might be charging like doctors,but you're not.:laughing::laughing:
> ...


*You are absolutely hilarious.*
*You should consider putting down that silly hammer and going into standup, I fell off my chair laughing so hard, because you're so funny.*
*The fifty smiley faces really added to the effect, take them on stage with you...you'll be a hit.*


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## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

valerko said:


> I knew there was a reason I don't really like plumbers.
> Making a rocket science out of ***** flowing down hill:clap::clap:
> 
> Seriously some of you guys have to get off your high horses,you might be charging like doctors,but you're not.:laughing::laughing:
> ...


If I need a nail bender I will call one.... Take Grumpys advice and do stand-up it could be your calling....


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

So I leave cyber world for a few months and this is what I come back to?

I do love you guys!! I think I'm gonna change my user name to "hire a plumber"!!

Too damn funny! So I hope you all have been doing well and no major things have happened around here (anyone die???). As for me, I had about 2 weeks of no work so I remodled my house...well half of it...almost and now I have 15K in billing I don't even have the time or energy to send out. Booked through the next two months with no one particular job taking more than a week max. 

I trust my good buddy Ron has been keeping you monsters in line and grumpy is still as sharply whitted as usual!!

Anyhow, glad to see the plumbing forum is alive and kicking, I've actually missed some of you guys:blush:!

Anyhow, proceed as filed!
James


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Dam-it Jim, I'm a plumber not a _________ (fill in the blank) :laughing:


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## nhmaster3015 (Sep 6, 2008)

valerko said:


> I knew there was a reason I don't really like plumbers.
> Making a rocket science out of ***** flowing down hill:clap::clap:
> 
> Seriously some of you guys have to get off your high horses,you might be charging like doctors,but you're not.:laughing::laughing:
> ...


No, not doctors, though our "profession" is a couple thousand years older. Unfortunatly for you, all you need is a tape measure and a skillsaw to be a carpenter. ?To join our ranks you need 4 years apprentice school (640 hrs) 2000 hrs on the job training, pass the journeymans test and then you can work unsupervised. You guys can just start swinging a hammer fresh out of junior high:whistling


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

JamesNLA said:


> So I leave cyber world for a few months and this is what I come back to?
> 
> I do love you guys!! I think I'm gonna change my user name to "hire a plumber"!!
> 
> ...


Nice to see you back.:clap:

How's Kenny? :laughing:


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

JamesNLA said:


> So I leave cyber world for a few months and this is what I come back to?
> 
> I do love you guys!! I think I'm gonna change my user name to "hire a plumber"!!
> 
> ...



*WTF???*

*Some of us were worried YOU were dead!*

*Dude, DON'T be a stranger...at least hop in and say hi.*


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*BTW...off to see the Sox tonight.*


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## valerko (Jan 11, 2008)

"No, not doctors, though our "profession" is a couple thousand years older. Unfortunatly for you, all you need is a tape measure and a skillsaw to be a carpenter. ?To join our ranks you need 4 years apprentice school (640 hrs) 2000 hrs on the job training, pass the journeymans test and then you can work unsupervised. You guys can just start swinging a hammer fresh out of junior high:whistling"

I believe my profession is lot older than yours.First plumbers had to just dig the hole and still had to call carpenters to build out house around it.:clap::clap:


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## valerko (Jan 11, 2008)

> "No, not doctors, though our "profession" is a couple thousand years older. Unfortunatly for you, all you need is a tape measure and a skillsaw to be a carpenter. ?To join our ranks you need 4 years apprentice school (640 hrs) 2000 hrs on the job training, pass the journeymans test and then you can work unsupervised. You guys can just start swinging a hammer fresh out of junior high:whistling"



I believe my profession is lot older than yours.First plumbers had to just dig the hole and still had to call carpenters to build out house around it.:clap::clap:


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

valerko said:


> I believe my profession is lot older than yours.First plumbers had to just dig the hole and still had to call carpenters to build out house around it.:clap::clap:


*Apparently, you're in the worlds oldest profession!*


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## CA PLMBR (Sep 13, 2008)

Ramblinwreck said:


> Got a problem I need some help with. Customer wants to replace his old gas hot water heater with a new tankless one, probably Rannai, but I got a problem. He needs between 6-8 GPM for his two-story 4 bedroom home and to achieve that output we need a 3/4 inch gas supply. That wouldn’t be a problem I’d just run a new line but the existing HW heater is in his attic, it would take me a week just to run the line.
> 
> So, he and I thought why not put the new tankless heater in his crawl space, it’s about 5 feet in places. The gas meter is about 20 feet away so running a ¾ inch line is a breeze and just tie into the existing hot water line in at his kitchen sink. Then cap off his existing HW heater and gas supply in the attic. The hot water supply would essentially be reversing its flow. Anyone see any issues with this??
> 
> Thanks.


I'm not about to give any advice that pertains to gas, however I am going to ask a question. How do you suppose your going to run the hot water backwards. Water systems normally are sized largest to smallest. Like the trunk of a tree going upward. Your telling me that your going to run a water heater feed off the end of a branch-line? Kitchen lines I run are no more than 1/2" Any water heater Ive ever installed (for a whole house) has never had a feed smaller than 3/4". Tell me if any of this is making sense....If not please HIRE A PLUMBER if so ...please HIRE A PLUMBER.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Dam-it Jim, I'm a plumber not a _________ (fill in the blank) :laughing:


Doctor?????


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

Fighter


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