# Makita Vacuum



## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

:no:Ah this is a thread about a new vacuum from Makita:blink: not a Koolaid addicted Festool orgy about how wonderful their Vacuums are:whistling. Take it elsewhere.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> :no:Ah this is a thread about a new vacuum from Makita:blink: not a Koolaid addicted Festool orgy about how wonderful their Vacuums are:whistling. Take it elsewhere.


Your just jealous you ain't part of the orgy :laughing:


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## swartzj81 (Feb 23, 2010)

I built a bio science building few years ago and the clean room had to be dust free. We had to wear clean sujits the whole nine yards. Swiffer the walls above ceiling grid everything was caulked tight makeing negetive pressure. no dust flow. well very minimal. down to 1000s of dust particals per sq ft. its a clean situation.

i bring this all up because we had 2 vacuums in the room that had to stay in the room. one was a hepa eureka vac and fein vacuum. both had micron meter things on them. so if the festool was at the top of there game atleast 3 years ago i believe we would have had one of there vacs in there. not like money was an issue for a vac that was not allowed to leave the room even at the end of the job. bet there both still in that room.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Why didnt they use Nilfisk, Mastercraft, Nikro, Pullman-Holt? All are better vacuums than the models you listed for filtration. They more than likley used the models you listed due to avalibility. Festool dealers are spread pretty thin in areas. You can pick up Eureka from HD and Fein are almost everywhere.


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## swartzj81 (Feb 23, 2010)

really dont know.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> Your just jealous you ain't part of the orgy :laughing:


:no: not really I'm not delusional about a certain tool company. I refuse to be co-opted by Festool. I'm also happy to see competition. Makita is using this dust collection work many of their tools. In particular their masonary tools. They have dust shrouds for their grinders which would be great for cutting plaster in remodel work. 

Their web site states the vacuum meets EPA rrp standards with the upgraded hepa filter.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> :no: not really I'm not delusional about a certain tool company. I refuse to be co-opted by Festool. I'm also happy to see competition. Makita is using this dust collection work many of their tools. In particular their masonary tools. They have dust shrouds for their grinders which would be great for cutting plaster in remodel work.
> 
> Their web site states the vacuum meets EPA rrp standards with the upgraded hepa filter.


Im not delusional. Most people who say that cant afford the tools so they knock them. Just so your aware i own as much Makita gear as i do Festool. Both are very good tools. Im sure you dont know this either but Nilfisk make makitas Vacuums normally. Now if this US model is also made by nilfisk then im sure it has passed the certification tests required to be a true HEPA vacuum. But they may be doing what numerous other companys are and saying its certifield as a HEPA vacuum just because it can take a HEPA filter. They are not the same thing.

Just checked to see if they are the same vac as the Nilfisk Attix 50 and it is. the problem is Nilfisk dont seem to make a HEPA version anywhere near the price range of the makita so it looks like Makita just bundle a HEPA filter with it. Nilfisk do make a H class version Which is basicly a HEPA vac but its triple the price of the makita model. So either the Makita is a extremly good deal or it just has a bundled HEPA filter and has not been certifield.

heres the model which is 3 times the price










"If working with H-Class hazardous dust or asbestos, safe and dust-free dust handling is a key parameter. The Nilfisk-Alto series of certified H-Class vacuum cleaners offers a safe and easy to use solution with features with enhance safe working. 

The built-in FlowSensor and acoustic warning signal monitors air speed in the suction hose to make sure that it does not fall below the minimum of 20m/s. The use of suction hoses with different diameters is easily adjustable on the main control board.

All H-Class vacuum cleaners are provided with an individually tested and certified filter element with verification of the filtration efficiency"


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> :no: not really I'm not delusional about a certain tool company. I refuse to be co-opted by Festool. I'm also happy to see competition. Makita is using this dust collection work many of their tools. In particular their masonary tools. They have dust shrouds for their grinders which would be great for cutting plaster in remodel work.
> 
> Their web site states the vacuum meets EPA rrp standards with the upgraded hepa filter.


On their web site (Makita's) can I print the independent certification so the claims is defensible if I get cited for using a non-compliant dust collector? Is there a certification label on the dust extractor listing the independent report number? Do they offer RRP required vacuum head with a beater bar for carpet that has been tested to work with the vac? 

I hope the answer is yes to all the above questions. It means that Makita has taken the time and went through the expense of fully compiling with the RRP rule. 

I wonder why they don't include the HEPA filter with the vac?

Below is the label that is on my Mini. It also came with the report to back the claim.

ANSI 1017 only deals with the receptacle, it has nothing to do with RRP. Strange that they state it meets RRP, but don't cite the testing standard as they do for the receptacle.

Kent,

You may not like where this went, but what other common brand dust extractor would this be held to? 

I have no idea if this is a good vac or not. I have no experience with it. 

Tom


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Theres a lot of vacs on the market claiming they are suitable for RRP because they can be fitted with a HEPA filter. This is kind of the EPA's fault though because they don't make it clear what they mean. What they mean is you should be using a vacuum that no air escapes past the filter and its tested to be sure it functions this way. The main reason is if you don't you leave your self open to a lawsuit. 

I cant find that nilfisk attix 50 anywhere in the US. The only one i can find is model that is suitable for explosiveve dust and its 3X the price of the makita. That either means the makita is a crazy good deal, they have sent this vacuum of to be certifiedld or they are doing what many other are and saying its ok for use under RRP. I would doubt it leaks air past the filter being a nilfisk but there no attix 50 models in the US that say they are suitable for RRP. 

People who are interested in this vac just need to confirm its been tested.


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## Gatorb888 (Aug 17, 2011)

Dewalt came out with a similar vac last year for $450-$500 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4spQH4pYQE. It also has 2 filters for cleaning. Dewalt also has a full line of dust extracting attachments for grinders and hammers http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL977E1481E5013DE7 Actually the hammer attachments came out years ago.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

looks the same to me....

I'm sure makita's just lying about that epa/hepa thing


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TimelessQuality said:


> looks the same to me....
> 
> I'm sure makita's just lying about that epa/hepa thing


If they are the same then the makita is a unreal deal. The nilfisk is almost 3-4x the price of the makita. im basing this on english prices for both vacs. so it would be about the same here. 

Or makita just took the basic attix 50 and added a hepa filter which strangly enough is the same price as each other.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

This paying 3 or 4 times the price is happening all the time because the name or color is different
And yes that is looking like the same unit up there:whistling I do like the horns on the Makita:thumbsup:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

This HEPA thing is big bucks for use in the medical field just like when you put the word marine in front of something, now it's been pulled out for use in the construction field at a cheaper price:blink:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm gonna look into this because its also a wet and dry vac. didnt notice this until just then. if this is full unit certification and not just the hepa filter is certified then i may get it for me shop and then be able to use it on site when i need it.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> On their web site (Makita's) can I print the independent certification so the claims is defensible if I get cited for using a non-compliant dust collector? Is there a certification label on the dust extractor listing the independent report number? Do they offer RRP required vacuum head with a beater bar for carpet that has been tested to work with the vac?
> 
> I hope the answer is yes to all the above questions. It means that Makita has taken the time and went through the expense of fully compiling with the RRP rule.
> 
> ...


What I don't like is constant Festool promotion. Read your post. Your running over and taking pictures of you vac to post on this thread Get a life:laughing:

You are so obnoxious with your Koolaid addiction I can't possibly put it into words. You don't know jack about the Makita vac but you're make all kinds of stupid statements. :no: what a joke. What does Festool pay you?

Stop using my name and act like you don't know me.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

well just got of the phone to Makita. They were really helpful. The unit is not certified but the filter is. So its a retro fit filter which until they get it full unit tested is a big unknown if it will pass. they thought that just putting a HEPA filter into it made it compliant for RRP. 

They said they are gonna look into getting it full unit certified now though.

oh yeah and they are not compliant for hospitals because they are only ANSI 1017 certified also. i dont do hospital work but some may.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> I'm gonna look into this because its also a wet and dry vac. didnt notice this until just then. if this is full unit certification and not just the hepa filter is certified then i may get it for me shop and then be able to use it on site when i need it.


Why would you do that? Go pick up another Festool:laughing::laughing::laughing:

This Makita vac is close to $600 before you buy the HEPA filter so what do they cost?

It states on the Makita site that it is RRP certified. However, I've never seen one in person either. It's only 27 pounds and is quieter than the Festool vac OMG! let me know what you find out about it.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Craftmark said:


> . Read your post. Your running over and taking pictures of you vac to post on this thread


I like the pics:blink:
What are you saying:whistling I should take my favorite tool out of my bed:blink:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> Why would you do that? Go pick up another Festool:laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> This Makita vac is close to $600 before you buy the HEPA filter so what do they cost?
> 
> It states on the Makita site that it is RRP certified. However, I've never seen one in person either. It's only 27 pounds and is quieter than the Festool vac OMG! let me know what you find out about it.


Well the filter from what i can find out is $150 with shipping. I aint looked well enough to find the makita version but the nilfisk one is that much.

I will def get it if its full unit. I want a nice vac i can leave in my shop when i build it.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> well just got of the phone to Makita. They were really helpful. The unit is not certified but the filter is. So its a retro fit filter which until they get it full unit tested is a big unknown if it will pass. they thought that just putting a HEPA filter into it made it compliant for RRP.
> 
> They said they are gonna look into getting it full unit certified now though.
> 
> oh yeah and they are not compliant for hospitals because they are only ANSI 1017 certified also. i dont do hospital work but some may.


Thanks for the info. Seems like Makita should know better than that though.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> Thanks for the info. Seems like Makita should know better than that though.


I cant blame them. Its the EPA's fault. Its not clear whats allowed. But what is clear is a vac that leaks air past the filter is no good. Thats a hard thing to know unless its tested.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> I like the pics:blink:
> What are you saying:whistling I should take my favorite tool out of my bed:blink:


I'm not gonna touch that:no:

:laughing::laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Well if the Nilfisk complys why wouldn't the Makita if it's the same unit:blink:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Well if the Nilfisk complys why wouldn't the Makita if it's the same unit:blink:


The Nilfisk dont comply but its rated for exsplosive work which normally means that it should pass any test. Thats also a $1500 though and completty different to the attix 50 which is what the makita is based on from what i can tell. The attix 50 is also setup like the makita where you retro fit the HEPA filter.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Oh:blink:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

So the better they retain what they suck the more they cost

:jester:
The ones the retain explosive stuff are big money


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> So the better they retain what they suck the more they cost
> 
> :jester:
> The ones the retain explosive stuff are big money


Yeah just like the explosion proof fans. Big money.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> What I don't like is constant Festool promotion. Read your post. Your running over and taking pictures of you vac to post on this thread Get a life:laughing:
> 
> You are so obnoxious with your Koolaid addiction I can't possibly put it into words. You don't know jack about the Makita vac but you're make all kinds of stupid statements. :no: what a joke. What does Festool pay you?
> 
> Stop using my name and act like you don't know me.


Walked, not ran. 

You're right I don't know jack about the Makita vac, stated so in the post you linked. They weren't statements. Asking questions is not allowed about a product you posted? 

Nothing.

Kent, is the Makita vac RRP full unit certified? 

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> Thanks for the info. Seems like Makita should know better than that though.


A company that large, on this we agree. 

Tom


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> Walked, not ran.
> 
> You're right I don't know jack about the Makita vac, stated so in the post you linked. They weren't statements. Asking questions is not allowed about a product you posted?
> 
> ...


No they weren't question they where statements intended to promote Festool vacuums and nothing more. You hijack my thread with this BS. I started this thread to get more information about the Makita vac. Not listen to you go through your Festool presentation. :no: The only thing missing was a slide show. 

I already own a Festool Vac.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> A company that large, on this we agree.
> 
> Tom


No I doubt we agree on that. We don't know much about this new offering from Makita other than the company that makes these vacuum is a big time player in the vacuum market. I'm interested to find out more about the tool.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> No they weren't question they where statements intended to promote Festool vacuums and nothing more. You hijack my thread with this BS. I started this thread to get more information about the Makita vac. Not listen to you go through your Festool presentation. :no: The only thing missing was a slide show.
> 
> I already own a Festool Vac.


I just checked again, the post you linked they were questions. Those questions led Barri to call Makita for the answers you were looking for. 

You should be thanking me for the comparison, it brought forth a lot of information that may not have turned up. 

To my knowledge, the newer Festool CT's are still the only unit fully certified for RRP. Honestly I think that is a shame. All of the large companies and only one bothered to get the testing done. In a previous post, the link to the EPA site I posted lists the testing standards that have to be met. How can these other companies engineers and legal team miss this? Then they advertise their unit is RRP compliant, how? All that does is leave us legally exposed if we are using it. Hopefully Barri's call to Makita did some good and we'll see another certified vac on the market in the next few months. Seeing as the cost is about the same, the only decision will be what brand do you want. They need to test a carpet head with a beater bar to go along with the vac, as required by RRP.

If someone knows of other brands fully tested and certified, I'd like to know what brand they are. It would give use all some choices.

Tom


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> I just checked again, the post you linked they were questions. Those questions led Barri to call Makita for the answers you were looking for.
> 
> You should be thanking me for the comparison, it brought forth a lot of information that may not have turned up.
> 
> ...


Say they are certified for RRP (but are not full unit) so really they are not good for RRP as far as im aware. Filter only certified as far as i know. 

Bosch: Airsweep HEPA
Fein: Turbo II HEPA model #92025
Hilti: VC20-U HEPA and VC40-U HEPA
Metabo: ASR2050 with HEPA set
Makita: VC4710 with HEPA set
Mastercraft: Backpack Vacuum, *Enviromaster CT-5, Enviromaster 7, HEPA Poly wet/dry vac, HEPA steel dry vac
Minuteman: BPV HEPA backpack vac, Lead vac, Microvac, X250 wet/dry, X829 Series
Nikro: LV02, LV10, LV15, LVW15 wet/dry
Pulse-Bac: Model 565 HEPA
Pullman-Holt: 390ASB, 45HEPA Dry
Nilfisk brands: (some vacs may be the same, but sold as a different model under different brands)
Advance: *AWD HEPA, Canistar HEPA
Clarke: Summit 9 HEPA
Kent/ Euroclean: GD930H, *UZ934H, UZ964H
Nilfisk: *Eliminator 1, Eliminator 2, GD10 Backpack, *GD930 (Lead RRP), GM80, GM80i, UZ 934, 118
Nilfisk Alto: *Attix 30 HEPA, Attix 50 HEPA


Are certified full unit

Dustless Technologies: HEPA model
Festool: CT26/36
Festool: Mini/Midi 

The best way to tell if it is full unit is to see if it comes with the certificate. if it does its good to go if it don't its not known if its good for RRP until tested.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

The newer Festool Mini and Midi are also full unit certified. 

Tom


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> I just checked again, the post you linked they were questions. Those questions led Barri to call Makita for the answers you were looking for.
> 
> You should be thanking me for the comparison, it brought forth a lot of information that may not have turned up.
> 
> ...


How would you know anything about any other tools? You are obsessed with Festool. For at least 4 years I've heard you do nothing but promote their stuff. :clap: that's you about Festool. :no:


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> The newer Festool Mini and Midi are also full unit certified.
> 
> Tom


Ok Shane thanks:laughing:

54321....


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> The newer Festool Mini and Midi are also full unit certified.
> 
> Tom


Yeah sorry Tom forgot to add them on there.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Found some more info. The HEPA filters for the Makita can be purchased for $120 ontop of the vac price of $579. It only comes with the Nano filters. that sure is up there in pricing. its only $50 less than the festool and 2 years less waranty. i might have to re think this for the shop even if it is full unit certified. 

I also noticed that they recommend using the filter bags with both sets of filters to keep the filters clean! seems strange to do that seeings the whole point of the filter clean system is to keep the dust out the filter. If i use the filter bags in mine with drywall dust it dont help the suction at all because the bags clogged and not the filters. its does come with a plastic bag to use also though. 

I also cant figure out how you ajust the amount of suction, the amount of auto clean and the auto clean deep cleaning function.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> On their web site (Makita's) can I print the independent certification so the claims is defensible if I get cited for using a non-compliant dust collector? Is there a certification label on the dust extractor listing the independent report number? Do they offer RRP required vacuum head with a beater bar for carpet that has been tested to work with the vac?
> 
> I hope the answer is yes to all the above questions. It means that Makita has taken the time and went through the expense of fully compiling with the RRP rule.
> 
> ...


:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Gatorb888 said:


> "These *Vacuums* also meet the requirements of a HEPA vacuum as defined in the U.S. EPA Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) Rule (40 CFR Part 745) when used with the DWV9320 HEPA filter".
> 
> I don't know how it can be any more clear that the whole vacuum is certified, as long as you are using the HEPA filter. Obviously if you removed the filter, then it would no longer be RRP Certified, as is the case with all certified vacs. This does not say the DWV9320 is certified, it say's the entire vac (DWV012) is certified.


But who is saying this. A 3rd party company who tests the vacs or Dewalt? Ridgid also say their unit is certified yet i know it has leakage. The only way anyone is going to be 100% sure it meets EPA guide lines of no leakage is to have the full unit certificate showing its been tested. Show me the certificate its passed and we can put another vacuum on the list of tested vacs. The more the better.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

The reason for the filter redesign was that the old filters were "only". 99.95% effective, and they needed 99.97% to stay within the law. The new filter is actually 99.99% effective, so it's better than what is required.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Rustbucket said:


> The reason for the filter redesign was that the old filters were "only". 99.95% effective, and they needed 99.97% to stay within the law. The new filter is actually 99.99% effective, so it's better than what is required.


This is my point of the testing. My ridgid filter was 99.97% efficient yet had leakage. Again this is why the vacuum should be 3rd party tested. After it is then it's upto you to make sure you replace with the correct model filters so that it stays compliant. Just because a company says its compliant it don't mean it is. The only way you can be sure is to have full unit certification through a 3rd party. Many if these company won't do that as currently with the way the EPA word the law it seems ok to just have any vac with any HEPA filter. In the end it's your health and the customers your risking and also you lively hood should you get caught out. you could take that vac to a non RRP job and it blow lead dust out everywhere from the last job.


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## Gatorb888 (Aug 17, 2011)

This is the response I got back from our product manager:

"We use the TUV cabin test to evaluate the whole vac. They put the vac inside a chamber (cabin) and run it while sucking in dust through the hose which passes through a hole in the wall. They measure the air around the vac inside the chamber to see if any dust escapes. We passed this test and have certification.

As you mentioned below our filter was also tested by a third party and qualified as HEPA. 

That all being said, our DWV012 vacuum used with our HEPA Filters (DWV9320) is RRP compliant."


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Gatorb888 said:


> This is the response I got back from our product manager:
> 
> "We use the TUV cabin test to evaluate the whole vac. They put the vac inside a chamber (cabin) and run it while sucking in dust through the hose which passes through a hole in the wall. They measure the air around the vac inside the chamber to see if any dust escapes. We passed this test and have certification.
> 
> ...


Like i have said i don't doubt most of these vacs can pass. But the end user needs proof so can we see the certificate that it meets ies-rp-cc-0034.1 and ies rp-cc-002. They say their Filter is IES tested so why not the Vac?

This why i wouldn't trust the manufactures claims until its been tested by a 3rd party. They don't have to use the same test Facilitie but at least get it tested to the correct standards instead of just "yeah we have tested it and it passed". Ridgid said the same thing to me lol


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## tubtime (Jan 1, 2013)

Gatorb888 said:


> This is the response I got back from our product manager:
> 
> "We use the TUV cabin test to evaluate the whole vac. They put the vac inside a chamber (cabin) and run it while sucking in dust through the hose which passes through a hole in the wall. They measure the air around the vac inside the chamber to see if any dust escapes. We passed this test and have certification.
> 
> ...


thanks for all the posts, you have prooved your point well...a few times but some poeple dont want to hear that they are wrong:whistling

maybe if you sent a sticker with the vacume as well as the cert.. it will make it all better :clap:.......i like stickers :thumbsup:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tubtime said:


> thanks for all the posts, you have prooved your point well...a few times but some poeple dont want to hear that they are wrong:whistling
> 
> maybe if you sent a sticker with the vacume as well as the cert.. it will make it all better :clap:.......i like stickers :thumbsup:


Is that post targeted at me? You do understand the vacuum he's taking about has no 3rd party certification. Lowes could add HEPA filter to all their vacs and also claim it meets RRP. I won't trust any of them until they are tested to pass just like some manufactures have already done. 

I'm not worried if the dewalt passes or not as I already have a full unit certifeid vac. I'm looking out for people like your self who clearly know nothing about the vacuums.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

tubtime said:


> *thanks for all the posts*, you have prooved your point well...a few times but some poeple dont want to hear that they are wrong:whistling





BCConstruction said:


> Is that post targeted at me? You do understand the vacuum he's taking about has no 3rd party certification. Lowes could add HEPA filter to all their vacs and also claim it meets RRP. I won't trust any of them until they are tested to pass just like some manufactures have already done.
> 
> I'm not worried if the dewalt passes or not as I already have a full unit certifeid vac. I'm looking out for people like your self who clearly know nothing about the vacuums.


I like he thanks DeWalt for the all the post like he's the OP:blink: When it's CraftMarks thread! Then calls you wrong:blink: tubtime seems confussed:laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> Is that post targeted at me?


We can all avoid this kind of confusion by just using the







button:thumbsup:


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## tubtime (Jan 1, 2013)

BCConstruction said:


> Is that post targeted at me? You do understand the vacuum he's taking about has no 3rd party certification. Lowes could add HEPA filter to all their vacs and also claim it meets RRP. I won't trust any of them until they are tested to pass just like some manufactures have already done.
> 
> I'm not worried if the dewalt passes or not as I already have a full unit certifeid vac. I'm looking out for people like your self who clearly know nothing about the vacuums.


he said it has a third party certifiaction


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## tubtime (Jan 1, 2013)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> I like he thanks DeWalt for the all the post like he's the OP:blink: When it's CraftMarks thread! Then calls you wrong:blink: tubtime seems confussed:laughing:


i thanked dewalt for his posts as he repeated the same thing a few times but is being ignored, yet alot of guys whine why reps dont come on here and talk to us?

not my thread, i have no need for a hepa vacume, i just was interested in tools as usual:thumbsup:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tubtime said:


> he said it has a third party certifiaction


But it don't. If it did it would have a certificate that shows what model vacuum passed and the tests it passed and the company who tested it. It has a sticker that says meets EPA RRP. Did you even look at the pics of the certificate that come with my certifeid vacuum? It's on one of the pervious pages. It may very well have been tested and passed the leakage tests but until a 3rd party tests it and gives it a certification they are just making claims they can't back up.


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## tubtime (Jan 1, 2013)

BCConstruction said:


> But it don't. If it did it would have a certificate that shows what model vacuum passed and the tests it passed and the company who tested it. It has a sticker that says meets EPA RRP. Did you even look at the pics of the certificate that come with my certifeid vacuum? It's on one of the pervious pages. It may very well have been tested and passed the leakage tests but until a 3rd party tests it and gives it a certification they are just making claims they can't back up.


if thats the case then he should show that is has been or dont claim it, i take peoples word till proven otherwise.

the last row of the cert says it is 3rd party but doesnt say the name, would they open themselves up for a fight?:blink:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tubtime said:


> if thats the case then he should show that is has been or dont claim it, i take peoples word till proven otherwise.
> 
> the last row of the cert says it is 3rd party but doesnt say the name, would they open themselves up for a fight?:blink:


Nope it's the filter which has been 3rd party tested. A true HEPA filter has to be tested to be sure it functions as it should. They don't tests every single filter. Just the one time when they are first made and as long as its not redesigned or change it keeps the certification. Nearly all HEPA filters are certified. I wouldn't trust a uncertified filter like I wouldn't trust a uncertified vacuum.


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## tubtime (Jan 1, 2013)

BCConstruction said:


> Nope it's the filter which has been 3rd party tested. A true HEPA filter has to be tested to be sure it functions as it should. They don't tests every single filter. Just the one time when they are first made and as long as its not redesigned or change it keeps the certification. Nearly all HEPA filters are certified. I wouldn't trust a uncertified filter like I wouldn't trust a uncertified vacuum.


k ill bite apologise:boat


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Gatorb888 said:


> This is the response I got back from our product manager:
> 
> "We use the TUV cabin test to evaluate the whole vac. They put the vac inside a chamber (cabin) and run it while sucking in dust through the hose which passes through a hole in the wall. They measure the air around the vac inside the chamber to see if any dust escapes. We passed this test and have certification.
> 
> ...





tubtime said:


> if thats the case then he should show that is has been or dont claim it, i take peoples word till proven otherwise.
> 
> the last row of the cert says it is 3rd party but doesnt say the name, would they open themselves up for a fight?:blink:


I'm trying really hard to stay out of this but, the statement gatorb makes is "our filter is tested by a third party and qualified as HEPA" he makes no mention of the vac being whole unit tested by a third party, only that it was tested, by whom is unknown. His quote is from a manager at DeWalt and starts with "We use" that leeds me to believe it is DeWalt doing the testing.

I'm certain they would not falsify a test, just need to be clearer as to what you're getting. If they are certified to do this test, they should be able to supply the proper documentation. Like the RRP rule, there is very little if any clarification.

Tom


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tubtime said:


> k ill bite apologise:boat


No apologies needed. The RRP stuff is a load BS in my eyes but hazardous materials are an issue. ESP when coming in contact with a vacuum. You suck up dust in a small area and if you don't use the correct setup you spread that dust around the whole house and any other house you work in. I was already caug out by a company who claimed their vac was compliant to RRP yet as im sure others are doing the same thing. I would by the makita if I knew it was a full unit certified.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

Guys this is getting very ridiculous. The "full unit certification " is a creation of Festool. The EPA does not require this. :blink: Barri Ridgid tools are junk for the most part. If I was looking for a HEPA vacuum that would be one of the last companies I'd consider. :no:

Do you get the kind of liability these tool companies would be exposing themselves too by falsifying their testing?


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## NINZAN STUDIO (Jan 10, 2012)

So to sum up...the Makita looks promising?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> Guys this is getting very ridiculous. The "full unit certification " is a creation of Festool. The EPA does not require this. :blink: Barri Ridgid tools are junk for the most part. If I was looking for a HEPA vacuum that would be one of the last companies I'd consider. :no:
> 
> Do you get the kind of liability these tool companies would be exposing themselves too by falsifying their testing?


No its not a creation of festool at all. Perhaps reseacrh this your self if you dont believe me. It has nothing to do with festool. These standards are industry standards. Thousands of pieces of equipment are tested under these standards. The IESO 4310 is still in development and has been for a good long time so the 2 standards festool had their vacs put through combined are extremly close to the IESO 4310. It basicly proves that there is no leakage on the vacuum which used which the filter its being sold with. 

Whats the ridgid matter if its junk. They say it is certifield for RRP like 90% of the other companys do yet theres no proof they even stop lead dust. 

Would you rather have a vac thats has been tested by a 3rd party to be leakage free or a vac that they claim is certified but has not been tested by a 3rd party?


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> that means nothing. Its prob on there to meet UL specs just like the festool is. My CT36 says no more than 3 amps yeat i have used my kapex, routers and grinders on it numerous times.


Barri, my apologies regarding appliance plug on the CT 36. You are correct. It is listed at 3.7 amps in the manual. That does not mean the Vac will limit it to just 3.7. It would be a good idea to plug it into a 20 amp circuit if at all possible while using the Kapex.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> Barri, my apologies regarding appliance plug on the CT 36. You are correct. It is listed at 3.7 amps in the manual. That does not mean the Vac will limit it to just 3.7. It would be a good idea to plug it into a 20 amp circuit if at all possible while using the Kapex.


I ain't looked at what it states in the manual. I see the thread over on FOG when I first got the vac as I was curious as to why the outlet said 3.1amps and even the new ones say 3.1amps but they will easily run the Kapex and other high amp tools. I have no doubt the makita will also be able to run with their saws. Maybe not 15amp saws who knows but any of the most common tools that need dust extraction.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Craftmark said:


> Now Barri if you take the time


Craftman why do you keep calling him Barri:blink: do you know him personally:blink: I've corresponded with him a lot and even kinda met his beautiful wifey and kid and still call him BC:blink: I never even knew his name was Barri:no:

Craftman must be an insider


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Craftman why do you keep calling him Barri:blink: do you know him personally:blink: I've corresponded with him a lot and even kinda met his beautiful wifey and kid and still call him BC:blink: I never even knew his name was Barri:no:
> 
> Craftman must be an insider


Hes a Stalker :laughing:


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

I think we are having two different conversations going on here. My focus of discussion was on what was the minimum requirements of the RRP law, and I believe BC's point was more in the lines of what is more prudent. 

The CFR states some minimum standards that the vacuum must meet, but leaves it to the manufacturer to certify that their equipment meets the requirements. Since the law is so vague, and does not specify any standards that have to be met other than the use of a HEPA filter and be DESIGNED so that no air leaks past the filter, a lot of vacuums that should not be acceptable, do in fact comply with the letter of the law. 

Festool did go a step beyond the letter of the law, and did have the vacuums third party tested. I feel, however, that this was more of a marketing ploy than anything else. I'm sure they were plenty capable of performing the leak test themselves. As do I think a lot of the more respectable manufacturers are, as well. 

My belief is that if you purchase a vacuum from a respectable source, such as Nilfisk, Hilti or Pullman Holt, they have been extensively tested in-house to ensure long-term compliance. Brands such as Ridgid I would be more suspect of. Especially long-term. It says on their website that it "meets EPA’s definition of a HEPA vacuum under RRP rule...." That language kinda tells me that it meets the absolute minimum requirements. But, until the law is amended to include specific requirements and testing, that is all you need to stay compliant. 

The certificate that Festool has obtained does give the consumer an added assurance that the vacuum does, in fact, meet the RRP regulations. It is a very good vacuum, and I highly recommend it, but there are other options that will yield similar results. 

Good vacuums aren't cheap, and considering the health implications of lead dust, it's not something I would trust to the lowest bidder. Not only do you have to worry about the occupants of the home in which you are working, your own health is also at risk. If you do a lot of RRP work, your exposure will be a lot higher than the occupants of any one home. I think no matter what vacuum you buy, make sure you inspect and maintain it on a regular basis.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Rustbucket said:


> I think we are having two different conversations going on here. My focus of discussion was on what was the minimum requirements of the RRP law, and I believe BC's point was more in the lines of what is more prudent.
> 
> The CFR states some minimum standards that the vacuum must meet, but leaves it to the manufacturer to certify that their equipment meets the requirements. Since the law is so vague, and does not specify any standards that have to be met other than the use of a HEPA filter and be DESIGNED so that no air leaks past the filter, a lot of vacuums that should not be acceptable, do in fact comply with the letter of the law.
> 
> ...


I also dont doubt these companys can pass these full unit tests. The problem is until the EPA pick a standard these things have to pass then you really wont know if your vac is any good. I think i mentioned this already but below is the standard the EPA RRP are "meant" to require and from what i can gather the below test is the 2 tests Festool had done but these are combined into one test and it could be the reason the EPA have not put out any specs for vacuums except it have to have no leakage. This standard was also bought out right after the RRP rule was created yet its still in development.

IESO 4310/Air Filtration Device Field Testing and Validation Standard
ANSI/Pin Date: May 2009
Estimated Completion Date: 

STATUS: In Development



DESCRIPTION:
This standard provides minimum in-field testing requirements for portable high efficiency air filtration devices. These devices include vertical and horizontal PHEAF devices, movable vacuums, hand held vacuums, and other filtered suction devices used for cleaning surfaces for the purposes of removing dust, dirt, mold, asbestos, lead, soot and other undesired particulate and environmental contaminants.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

Rustbucket said:


> I think we are having two different conversations going on here. My focus of discussion was on what was the minimum requirements of the RRP law, and I believe BC's point was more in the lines of what is more prudent.
> 
> The CFR states some minimum standards that the vacuum must meet, but leaves it to the manufacturer to certify that their equipment meets the requirements. Since the law is so vague, and does not specify any standards that have to be met other than the use of a HEPA filter and be DESIGNED so that no air leaks past the filter, a lot of vacuums that should not be acceptable, do in fact comply with the letter of the law.
> 
> ...


This is just a guess but I'd bet Festool used the independent company to certify their vacuums more from the legal point of view. They wanted another layer of protection from lawsuits. They are afraid of our legal system and they should be. If you consider their owners manuals and how vague they are I believe that is why. That said their marketing department probably came up with a way to use the "full unit certification " to their advantage. I agree to that their vacuums are very good. I like my CT 33 a lot.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Craftman why do you keep calling him Barri:blink: do you know him personally:blink: I've corresponded with him a lot and even kinda met his beautiful wifey and kid and still call him BC:blink: I never even knew his name was Barri:no:
> 
> Craftman must be an insider


No, just trying to be friendly


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Craftmark said:


> This is just a guess but I'd bet Festool used the independent company to certify their vacuums more from the legal point of view. They wanted another layer of protection from lawsuits. They are afraid of our legal system and they should be. If you consider their owners manuals and how vague they are I believe that is why. That said their marketing department probably came up with a way to use the "full unit certification " to their advantage. I agree to that their vacuums are very good. I like my CT 33 a lot.


Why would festool be worried about a lawsuit. What you do with the vac has nothing to do with them. You could fill it with explosives and blow a building up its not gonna be their problem. They done the test so people who are concerned about lead dust have a vacuum they know they can trust. It's just another reason why festool go above and beyond with service. They could have guessed it was suitable but why guess when you can have it tested by a professional 3rd party company who does these tests day in day out.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> Why would festool be worried about a lawsuit. What you do with the vac has nothing to do with them. You could fill it with explosives and blow a building up its not gonna be their problem. They done the test so people who are concerned about lead dust have a vacuum they know they can trust. It's just another reason why festool go above and beyond with service. They could have guessed it was suitable but why guess when you can have it tested by a professional 3rd party company who does these tests day in day out.


Ah, because you are using it to suck up lead dust. Now if a company claims their vacuum is good for RRP work and BC Construction is on a job and your client gets sick and it is determined they have lead poisoning. Now the decide to file a law suit who do you think the lawyers will go after? BC Construction or multinational tool company with very deep pockets? Lets me ask you....do you have limits on your insurance policy? All companies like Festool, Makita, DeWalt have teams of lawyers looking at any way they could be exposed. How many do you have on staff?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Im gonna have to give up with you. It's like explaining stuff to a 3 year old.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

BCConstruction said:


> Im gonna have to give up with you. It's like explaining stuff to a 3 year old.


Don't quit now.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

I need a cliff notes summery of this whole thing:blink: Do we need a 3rd party? I'm confused now:blink:


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> I need a cliff notes summery of this whole thing:blink: Do we need a 3rd party? I'm confused now:blink:


Yes we need a third party to test the validity of this thread, not a mod though, I don't trust em lol.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> Im gonna have to give up with you. It's like explaining stuff to a 3 year old.


Really?? Why because you don't understand my point of view? 

You took a thread I started and took it off in a direction that it was not intended to go on. It became a koolaide orgy. 

You even called Makita and told them they did not know what they where talking about as it related to RRP??:blink:

You also told the DeWalt rep the same thing?? Like you're the forum expert on RRP and HEPA vacuums. As it was pointed out by Rustbucket you do know no what you are talking about. No all you have is your misguided opinion that isn't worth anything. In fact you don't even do RRP work. 

I'm a third grader? You can't even put together a sentence your grammar is so bad. What a joke. 

Oh and by the way...I'm still waiting for the regulation from the EPA that states all vacuums need to be "FULL UNIT CERTIFIED"?? :whistling

:laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Lol your a moron. Again for prob the 5th time who here has said the EPA said that? Post a quote of any body including me who said that. You can't so again stop BS'ing. 

so do I have to explain this to you again. How do you know these vacs don't have leakage? Unlike you I have owned 3 so called vacs suitable under RRP. Only 2 were full unit certified and only one had a certificate that come with the vacuum that it was 3rd party tested. These company's can make all the claims they want about it not having leakage but the only way your gonna know for sure I have it full unit certified by a 3rd party. Now what part of that don't you understand?

The crazy thing is you think these company's who have them certified are the bad guys lol.


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## tubtime (Jan 1, 2013)

i dont need a vacume but feel that i will now buy one to make all this reading worthwhile :thumbup:


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

tubtime said:


> i dont need a vacume but feel that i will now buy one to make all this reading worthwhile :thumbup:


Buy the Makita so we can find out if it is over priced junk or not.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Buy the Makita so we can find out if it is over priced junk or not.


It's a good vac. It's based on the nilfisk so there's no guessing that. It's just unknown if it's gonna be any good for RRP. I wouldn't think twice about buying it if it was certified as full unit.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Craftmark said:


> You took a thread I started and took it off in a direction that it was not intended to go on. It became a koolaide orgy.


 I learned a lot:blink:



Craftmark said:


> You also told the DeWalt rep the same thing?? Like you're the forum expert on RRP and HEPA vacuums. As it was pointed out by Rustbucket you do know no what you are talking about. No all you have is your misguided opinion that isn't worth anything. In fact you don't even do RRP work.
> 
> I'm a third grader?* You can't even put together a sentence your grammar is so bad*. What a joke.


My grammar sucks too:laughing: that's why I do carpentry:whistling


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