# Portico Porcelain Tile



## Bluudog (Feb 11, 2010)

I am not a tile installer by trade but I have done numerous straight forward projects. I am currently building a portico for a customer and she wants the balcony to have porcelain tile against my recommendation. She has tile throughout her interior and I understand it is common to do it on the exterior in her home country. Probably not Southern Ontario temperature swings though. I explained the risks but she wants it anyway. I have quoted a few tile installers but I have received conflicting information and methods. They probably don't come across these type of installations too often. I have reviewed the Schluter and Noble Deck products. The structure deflection is L480 based on johnbridge calculator. I have currently 3/4" and 1/2" exterior plywood and added ice and water shield to protect it for now.
If the pros have any input I would appreciate it.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

all i can add is that porecelin has the bet freeze thaw stability, but not all are alike... and i would get a tile with (i forget the term) a higher slip rating (higher is better)

you probably would want to install an uncoupling membrane like ditra under so the temp swings from direct sunlight dont pop the tiles off...


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Porcelain: Most is totally acceptable for exterior applications.
NobleDeck: excellent choice. Read installation instructions on Noble's site.
Flash properly to existing structure: very important
Grout: Consider using urethane grout. It will be highly stain-resistance, freeze/thaw compatible and UV stable.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Bluudog said:


> a higher slip rating


 Its a number. COF is the term.
In a situation where there is a potential for water, the tile should meet the COF of 
0.6 or higher under wet conditions.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Bluudog said:


> ...The structure deflection is L480 based on johnbridge calculator. I have currently 3/4" and 1/2" exterior plywood and added ice and water shield to protect it for now.
> If the pros have any input I would appreciate it.


What kind of room do you have left under that upper doorway to the patio.

Since you have added the Ice and Water Shield I would think you need to move into a product like Schluter's Ditra Drain or Schluter's Troba. I would doubt very much you will be required to have this stage inspected but check carefully into what the inspector wants to see for a drop outside the door.

Do you have scuppers for the rain water?

How is the Ice and Water Shield draining?



angus242 said:


> ...Flash properly to existing structure: very important
> Grout:...


This is going to be a hard with that brick structure. Is there already a flashing detail? Can you post some close ups of this?

JW


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Check this system out from Latictete . Saw it at a PTK . Pretty nice system.

http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds2900.pdf


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Evan1968 said:


> Check this system out from Latictete . Saw it at a PTK . Pretty nice system.
> 
> http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds2900.pdf



Good post. Same theory as the Schluter Troba system.

I didn't read the post but I'm guessing you can add in a little Admix to give the mud job a little freeze thaw stability. I wonder if Troba allows this or if this is even a good idea?

What do you think the trade off is for a little more stability? Would this increase in one area slow the drain rate over say just regular 4-1?

Anita???


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Flash properly to existing structure: very important


For my overall knowledge increase,how would you flash that?


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Tough question to answer.

Here in North Vancouver my building inspection office has a mock up.

Now these flashing details get tied into the Rainscreen requirements. I would think you need your roofing membrane up 8-10" and then the walls building paper over that. 

Some times we can wiggle up metal flashing up behind the original paper.

Your city hall would have a cross section for sure. Perhaps you can do a tile baseboard to clean up the flashing and wall to deck tie in?

JW


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Tough question to answer.
> 
> Here in North Vancouver my building inspection office has a mock up.
> 
> ...


Yea I get all that,how would you flash between brick wall and addition is the question.
Thats without bashing out the brick.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

TheItalian204 said:


> Yea I get all that,how would you flash between brick wall and addition is the question.
> Thats without bashing out the brick.


you would cut into the morter joints and incorperate a counter flashing out of colored aluminum or copper just like a chimney.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

world llc said:


> you would cut into the morter joints and incorperate a counter flashing out of colored aluminum or copper just like a chimney.


Thats what I thought. However why not to just take out several bricks out then? Instead of going through hassle of cutting the joints and incorporating and then trying to match the joint color?


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

remove the brick? maybe if it's non structural and stuck on, but even then you would have to nail on metal lath to bond to, nail through your waterproofing:no:

cutting the joint with an angle grinder is fast, just dusty. you dont have to go very deep... i bend up a 3/4" edge and cut in about 1". the sealant we use is available in over 200 colors and there is a color for every coil stock if using aluminum, it matches 100%. otherwise use clear.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

also, there is usually a flashing typical on how the architect wants it done on the blueprint.:thumbsup:


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## Bluudog (Feb 11, 2010)

Thanks for the replies and information. I have a tile chain close by that sells all the Schluter products so from an availability stand point it would be the best option. 
The deck has a slope of 1/4" per foot or approx. 3" to the outer edge. The radius is 12' from the center of the upper door. I proposed scuppers with sleepers for the portico but the customer stuck with the tile. So, they are okay with the water over the radius. The previous balcony didn't have any eavestrough or scuppers either. I'll add flashing around the radius.
The joists go inside and previously supported the exterior balcony as you can see by the photo. They have some rot issues below the upper door. They are getting a new door/floor repair by someone else (my price was too high-we'll see).
I understand since I added the Grace I/W Shield that may complicate using Ditra. The Ditra installation manual has exterior backer board with thinset over the plywood and then Ditra. Can I add the cement backer board over the Grace screwed down or adhesive and then the Ditra/Kerdi? 
I'll check into Troba but height maybe an issue. The joists going into the house are 2x10 - 16" centers and I aligned 2x8's with the bottom of the 2x10's (but added 2 layers of plywood - 1-1/4" overall).
The tile chain recommended Kiesel products for thinset (Trioflex - under & over Ditra) and grout. They said the grout was stainproof, waterproof, bombproof etc. I'll check into urethane grout - I read the sticky Angus. I undertsand the Kiesel grout is slow setting which could mean trouble for clean up with an abrasive finish on the tile. Has anybody used Kiesel grout on this type of abrasive porcelain tile?


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## Bluudog (Feb 11, 2010)

The flashing against the brick will be as stated by World LLC. I only could find pictures that were by a Duradeck installation and he didn't install the flashing into the brick as we advised him (cut the joint with an angle grinder & caulking). We added 3/4" plywood with tapcons to the brick so he could run up the Duradeck & flash but he just trimmed the flashing. I took pictures in case the HO had complaints. Anyway, similar to this but into brick joints.


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