# any code on fastening seems?



## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

I am a painter and do mostly repaints. I see a lot of corners that are cracking or the tape is coming off in houses that are only a few years old. This seems to be worse on ceilings that are sloped or tray ceilings any where that is some what unusual. I have been noticing that often there is no wood to screw the ceiling to. I was in a place yesterday and curiosity got the better of me so I start drilling holes finally hit a rafter eight inches from corner. I also ran a five in one tool up through the crack and slid it in both directions I didn't hit anything in the six foot section I could reach.

My question for you guys. Is there any code requiring drywall to be fastened at the seems? Would this situations meet code or is this just something that slips by?

Sorry for the long post but it gets frustrating patching these corners knowing the problem is coming back.

Jim


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Are you really a painter? 1974? You should be telling us the what and how.


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## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Are you really a painter? 1974? You should be telling us the what and how.


Yes I am really a painter. I have done very little new construction and this is becoming an epidemic. I have no reason to know the code requirments for hanging drywall. I do know if I was replacing it I would find a way to put supports behind the seems. 

Now that we have established that I should already know do you have an answer?

Jim


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Where are you located? Do you have snow loads? Is the foundation moving? 
Obviously something is moving and it's the drywalls fault, how?
Around here most of the time on a sloped:laughing: ceiling the hangers will not screw the ends and let the wall hold up the ends of the ceiling drywall to prevent our tape from failing and allow a little movement. Same goes for up the the peak, the last screw is 8 to 10 inches from the peak.


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## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

Brockster said:


> Where are you located? Do you have snow loads? Is the foundation moving?
> Obviously something is moving and it's the drywalls fault, how?
> Around here most of the time on a sloped:laughing: ceiling the hangers will not screw the ends and let the wall hold up the ends of the ceiling drywall to prevent our tape from failing and allow a little movement. Same goes for up the the peak, the last screw is 8 to 10 inches from the peak.


I am located in IL. Yes we have snow. The foundation is not cracking I don't know if they are moving.
Like I said I am seeing more and more of this in the houses with odd corners or sloped ceilings. The one instance I looked at this week the wall was covered first the the ceiling butted up to the wall it didn't go over it. The screws were eight inches from the corner nothing supports the drywall after the screws. 

You guys are a little sensitive. I see you don't think I used the correct term for the sloped ceiling. What is the correct term? I do not have a back ground in the building trade I am just a self taught painter. I spend a lot of time keeping up with why and how different coatings work and what makes them fail. 

Jim


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## kevco drywall (Mar 26, 2008)

hi paintr56,
i understand what your saying, in scotland we have joiners who hang the gyproc(drywall) and they normal miss ther wood or studs as we call them for qiuckness ive came accross it a lot, it dosent help the taper either as the boards are moving they are on price work and if thy think thy can get away with it thy will


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

Hey Paintr56, some of the cracks have as much to do with the poor quality of wood. They force grow the wood with hormones and force dry the wood with salt water and expect the wood to stay stable. It isn't. The last few years the problem has increased because the builders want the job done so fast that they don't allow the moisture from the concrete to dry out of the house before the rock is hung and the rock soaks up the moisture and when it dries( a year later) the rock cracks in the weakest areas. Like the vaulted ceilings and the tray ceilings or whatever you want to call them. You can nail, screw, and glue and if the house decides to dry out, it will crack. And the house decides to dry out every time. The builders don't use the amount of nails like they used to and it is always the drywallers fault. And they all use air nailers and sometimes the nails are good into the meat of the wood and sometimes not and it is the drywallers fault when the wood moves and the drywall cracks. Yep, we are a bit sensitive... Not your fault, though and nothing you said. Just a little explanation for you. And I didn't read your post like you were attacking the drywallers, just you were wanting to know what we thought. That is my take on the cracks in the drywall in Iowa, anyway.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

I look @ it like $$$$$ in the bank. I didn't cause the problem. But I can fix it.:whistling


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

Yep! Once you have educated the contractor. Where he used to think it was just poor drywall workmanship, now he knows better.


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## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

Tim0282 said:


> Hey Paintr56, some of the cracks have as much to do with the poor quality of wood. They force grow the wood with hormones and force dry the wood with salt water and expect the wood to stay stable. It isn't. The last few years the problem has increased because the builders want the job done so fast that they don't allow the moisture from the concrete to dry out of the house before the rock is hung and the rock soaks up the moisture and when it dries( a year later) the rock cracks in the weakest areas. Like the vaulted ceilings and the tray ceilings or whatever you want to call them. You can nail, screw, and glue and if the house decides to dry out, it will crack. And the house decides to dry out every time. The builders don't use the amount of nails like they used to and it is always the drywallers fault. And they all use air nailers and sometimes the nails are good into the meat of the wood and sometimes not and it is the drywallers fault when the wood moves and the drywall cracks. Yep, we are a bit sensitive... Not your fault, though and nothing you said. Just a little explanation for you. And I didn't read your post like you were attacking the drywallers, just you were wanting to know what we thought. That is my take on the cracks in the drywall in Iowa, anyway.


If I was looking to place blame it would be the designer or the framer. Pretty hard for a drywall hanger to fasten dry wall where there is no rafter. My question was is it normal for dry wall to hang out past the support eight inches being held up only by tape and mud?

Jim


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## Masterpoacher (Feb 8, 2008)

The Code in Ontario states that the wall supporting the ceiling sheet is concidered the same as a screw. The next screw can be no further than 11 3/4 inches on the support with 16 inch centers.


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## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

Masterpoacher said:


> The Code in Ontario states that the wall supporting the ceiling sheet is concidered the same as a screw. The next screw can be no further than 11 3/4 inches on the support with 16 inch centers.


The wall is not supporting the ceiling. The ceiling is butted up to the wall.

Jim


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## Masterpoacher (Feb 8, 2008)

paintr56 said:


> The wall is not supporting the ceiling. The ceiling is butted up to the wall.
> 
> Jim


Thats asking for problems if no screws on edges of ceilings.


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## odellconstruct (Mar 27, 2008)

who ever hung the drywall should have centered on a stud !!! always , just repair it by cutting back on both sides to nearest studs put new piece and tape and mud, sand ect


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## odellconstruct (Mar 27, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Are you really a painter? 1974? You should be telling us the what and how.



malco are you a handy man ? what do you specialize in ?


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## Midwest BuildIT (Mar 16, 2006)

I dont think you guys are understanding what he is saying. 

The walls were drywalled first

The ceilings second

The drywall on the ceiling is not attached to anything in the corners, At the side walls. Not the top or bottom of the vaulted ceiling, but at the side walls that come up to the vaulted ceiling. The closest fastener is 8" away. So basically the drywall is unsupported at the side walls. 

This sounds like bad framing to me. The framing inspector should check this. They usually require that there be framing to attach the drywall to. But they have been trowing houses up so fast around here the inspectors didnt check.


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

Framing inspections are usually about fire-code compliancy and structural concerns.

No nailers in the corners (ceiling edges). 

Individuals at fault:

1.) Framer
2.) Site Super (GC or other)
3.) Drywaller


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## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

Thank you. That is the exact situation. Many of these were built and they all crack in the same places. 

Jim


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Midwest BuildIT said:


> I dont think you guys are understanding what he is saying.
> 
> The walls were drywalled first
> 
> The ceilings second.


Really? I'm not surprised it cracked, holly cow! That's going to take some work to fix if this is true.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

odellconstruct said:


> malco are you a handy man ? what do you specialize in ?



I am quite handy they tell me...But that has nothing to do with what I do for a trade!


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