# Anyone find a gutter guard that works?



## miillersickness

I recently installed the plastic clip in gutter guards from Amerimax. They work great, all except for any substantial amount of rainfall then it just pours over the front of my gutters and about 50% of the water enters the gutters themselves.


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## hdavis

I never found any.


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## Tom Struble

i haven't found a plastic/vinyl guard that i like

i use leaf relief works for me


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## VinylHanger

I think all most gutter guards do is make it easier to clean your gutters. You still need to get the leaves off the gutter guard.


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## miillersickness

Kinda the responses i expected, think im going to just scrap them and clean the gutters couple times a year.


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## PipeNinja

There has been quite a few times people call us out to look at their drainage... they think their gutter drain lines are clogged or something. When we walk up to look at the area where their basement is getting wet, you can see the drip line on the ground where the gutters are just overflowing. Even if there are no trees around, the little 1 inch hole in the gutter can't keep up with hundreds of gallons of water. This is a serious design flaw, I don't think the guy who invented the gutter took into account the insane monsoon rains we have been having the last couple years. Not to mention the gutter guards just slow down the water even more... >.< I would just eliminate your guards and maintain your gutters since I have never heard of a good gutter guard yet :sad:

Home of the pipe ninja --> Rochester Excavating <-- :thumbsup:


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## SC sawdaddy

I've wondered about those things that attach to the edge of the boxing that look like the bottom of door weatherstripping. Its supposed to dissapate the water. I just cant see that being any better than gutters but it sure wouldnt be a problem with leaves.


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## AJAX

http://www.gutterhelmet.com/

I don't have them but, clients do and like them.


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## Tinstaafl

SC sawdaddy said:


> I've wondered about those things that attach to the edge of the boxing that look like the bottom of door weatherstripping. Its supposed to dissapate the water. I just cant see that being any better than gutters but it sure wouldnt be a problem with leaves.


You're talking about the thing that looks like a set of louvers? My neighbor has that, and it works well to "dissipate" the water so you don't get that ugly drip line on the ground. An unforseen negative is that it can continue dripping for hours after the rain has stopped. It also does nothing to get the water well away from your foundation.

But it never clogs!


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## Shellbuilder

leaf blaster from amazon 2.65 per foot stainless steel


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## Tom Struble

ooo that sounds dangerous:blink:


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## Shellbuilder

Tom, I was skeptical until I put them on a rental house, best I've seen yet.


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## Tom Struble

no ofence:jester:i always like the names these kind of poducts get

blaster/defier:thumbup:

i think ''leaf sniper'' would be a great name:clap:


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## PowerWash

My experience with gutter guards is... they all suck (and I have seen most).

That last one posted "leaf blaster" looks like it would be at the top of the list of crappy guards. We are in the land of pines here, so none seem to work well.

To be honest the best I have seen at keeping crap out while still catching all the water are the cheap domed mesh ones that are clipped to the face of the gutter with a hinge that can be tilted forward to dump the debris off of the top.


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## TNTRenovate

Any gutter guard will reduce the amount of water your gutter can handle. Pay someone $35 a year to clean your gutters and never have to worry about over flowing gutters.

I with you guys that have yet to find a good system that actually works without over flowing the gutters a few times a year.


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## Shellbuilder

Roof Granules wont go through the leaf blaster, its a mesh. I have these on a house that has been problematic with leaves. These actually worked, I was surprised too, believe me.


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## Dave in Pa

Anyone use the Gutter Gaurd stuff, I think that is the name of it? The black plastic, triangle shaped stuff, that fits into the gutter? Have a lady that wants it. Not cheap at approx. $4/ft.


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## TNTRenovate

Shellbuilder said:


> Roof Granules wont go through the leaf blaster, its a mesh. I have these on a house that has been problematic with leaves. These actually worked, I was surprised too, believe me.


Regardless it still reduces the amount of water that can flow into the gutters.


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## Shellbuilder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5WTV8iDKYo


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## Tom Struble

well...slows it down yea but most cover type guards can handle 2-6'' of rain an hour


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## TNTRenovate

Tom Struble said:


> well...slows it down yea but most cover type guards can handle 2-6'' of rain an hour


That is in prime conditions. I live in the real world, where the leaves and debris sit on top of the guard versus being washed down the gutter and out the D/S. I have been called to a few gutter guard jobs of various makes and models and have seen the same issue time after time.

Also, there are some funky roofs that create areas of concentrated flow that no gutter guard can keep up with. Hell the gutters have a hard time keeping up.

And the garden hose demo doesn't come close to real world volume.

I still say that $35-$50 a year is money better spent on a clean out service.


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## Tom Struble

Robby Robby Robby,cleaning your gutters once a year ain't going to do it:no:,unless there are no trees in your real world:clap:


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## SC sawdaddy

I never liked gutter guards either Rob, if the leaves cant get in they sit on top and the water cant get in. 20-30 bucks to clean out aint a bad investment. Besides I got to have something for the neighbor kid to do instead of following my daughter around oogleing her.


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## EthanB

TNTSERVICES said:


> Any gutter guard will reduce the amount of water your gutter can handle. Pay someone $35 a year to clean your gutters and never have to worry about over flowing gutters.
> 
> I with you guys that have yet to find a good system that actually works without over flowing the gutters a few times a year.


Not to turn this into a pricing thread but $35? Is this a guy who lives in a van down by the river?:laughing:

I think the surrounding trees determine whether or not you should use gutter guards and which guard you should use. Pretty much every guard is still going to let crud in to accumulate and some of them are really hard to work around for cleaning. If there are birch trees or something else that drops fine seeds then you're better off without. It takes a lot of years without cleaning to pay for most of these systems.


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## BamBamm5144

EthanB said:


> Not to turn this into a pricing thread but $35? Is this a guy who lives in a van down by the river?:laughing:
> .


I would guess that'd be for someone with 15ft of gutter.


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## Shellbuilder

The house I put the leaf blaster,( actually called gutter helmet by franchisers in protected sales areas)…….needed leaves cleaned 7 to 10 times a year. I've seen the hard rain with the leaves piled up at the roof eave and water came out of the spouts clean as a whistle. I'm not sure why TNT can't accept a testimonial on a product. And once a year leaf cleaning……really!


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## PowerWash

Shellbuilder said:


> The house I put the leaf blaster,( actually called gutter helmet by franchisers in protected sales areas)…….needed leaves cleaned 7 to 10 times a year. I've seen the hard rain with the leaves piled up at the roof eave and water came out of the spouts clean as a whistle. I'm not sure why TNT can't accept a testimonial on a product. And once a year leaf cleaning……really!


Did you watch the video link you posted?

Even in their own promo video shingle granules were forming in the mesh/slots. I have dealt with all the different types of gutter guards and I have seen some very similiar to those. Full of shingle dust and water just poured over the edge.

These cheap ones below work just as good as any and they are easy to clean out *when* they get debris in them.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_157336-205-...294934297__s?Ntt=gutter+leaf+guard&facetInfo=


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## EthanB

BamBamm5144 said:


> I would guess that'd be for someone with 15ft of gutter.


I wouldn't even drive to someones house for that.:blink: The money that is, not the gutter.


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## superseal

I would love to see some neighborhood kid clean some of the house gutters around here. Ain't no way their scaling 32's and 40 footers to get to some of these things - and $25 or 35$ doesn't come close to one visit if I'm doing it. 

I'm with Tom on this...Leaf Relief is what I've currently been using and no complaints. Cheap vinyl just collapses over time and the holes are usually too big to be effective anyway.

A clean system will handle the heaviest rainfall per hour ever recorded -or so their brochure says :whistling

All houses are different and some tweaking of the system should be expected if overflow is a problem. Usually it corrected using valley diverters and alike to solve the issues. 

Still have to clean them once in awhile, but much improvement in most cases IMO and some people simply need them.


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## Tinstaafl

TNTSERVICES said:


> I still say that $35-$50 a year is money better spent on a clean out service.


To be fair, I suppose a guy could make money if he had a whole neighborhood to do at that price, and his method was to walk the roof edge with a leafblower. :whistling


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## Shellbuilder

PowerWash said:


> Did you watch the video link you posted?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_157336-205-...294934297__s?Ntt=gutter+leaf+guard&facetInfo=


Yes I did watch the video, real world is even better!!


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## D. Jones Const

Leaf guard gutter system is the best there is and it works.


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## D. Jones Const

www.leafguard.com my folks have had them on there house for 8 years and no clogs and they actually catch water.


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## SSC

leafguard all the way. have had them on an old house ,my parents have them. they are the best


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## Tom Struble

superseal said:


> I would love to see some neighborhood kid clean some of the house gutters around here. Ain't no way their scaling 32's and 40 footers to get to some of these things - and $25 or 35$ doesn't come close to one visit if I'm doing it.
> 
> I'm with Tom on this...Leaf Relief is what I've currently been using and no complaints. Cheap vinyl just collapses over time and the holes are usually too big to be effective anyway.
> 
> A clean system will handle the heaviest rainfall per hour ever recorded -or so their brochure says :whistling
> 
> All houses are different and some tweaking of the system should be expected if overflow is a problem. Usually it corrected using valley diverters and alike to solve the issues.
> 
> Still have to clean them once in awhile, but much improvement in most cases IMO and some people simply need them.


got em on my house,6'' gutter 3x4 leader, gutter is never frozen with packed snow they are always clear


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## Sam60

Dave in Pa said:


> Anyone use the Gutter Gaurd stuff, I think that is the name of it? The black plastic, triangle shaped stuff, that fits into the gutter? Have a lady that wants it. Not cheap at approx. $4/ft.


Had a customer that had it. Was rotting and falling apart after 3 years.
Looks like some sort of black foam if its the same stuff


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## TNTRenovate

superseal said:


> I would love to see some neighborhood kid clean some of the house gutters around here. Ain't no way their scaling 32's and 40 footers to get to some of these things - and $25 or 35$ doesn't come close to one visit if I'm doing it.
> 
> I'm with Tom on this...Leaf Relief is what I've currently been using and no complaints. Cheap vinyl just collapses over time and the holes are usually too big to be effective anyway.
> 
> A clean system will handle the heaviest rainfall per hour ever recorded -or so their brochure says :whistling Like I said, I have heard that, but have also been to several houses that I had major issues with.
> 
> All houses are different and some tweaking of the system should be expected if overflow is a problem. Usually it corrected using valley diverters and alike to solve the issues.
> 
> Still have to clean them once in awhile, but much improvement in most cases IMO and some people simply need them.


I live in the Midwest, most are houses are two story and are walkable. You can clean the gutters in less than 10 minutes. If you schedule it right you can make a good day or two of work.

I guess we all don't live around people who can afford a grand for gutter guards.


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## superseal

TNTSERVICES said:


> I live in the Midwest, most are houses are two story and are walkable. You can clean the gutters in less than 10 minutes. If you schedule it right you can make a good day or two of work.
> 
> *I guess we all don't live around people who can afford a grand for gutter guards.*




A g-whiz ain't gonna get you much around here when it comes to some of the systems available. GH quoted 4k for my buddies garage and I've seen numbers approaching 9/10k and higher to retrofit some of the Mcmansions.

Can't really help it if I live around people who spend money on gutter guard with honorable intentions on saving money down the road and protecting their property


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## Tom Struble

thing that always seemed goofy to me was the gutter helmet at inside miters,there you need to put in a screen:blink:


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## MikeyJP1980

We put a gutter helmet on a house about ten years ago. It was warrantied and claimed to be the best system at the time. It worked fine until birds climbed in and made a nest. I don’t know how they got in but the helmet had to be taken off to clean the nest out and be replaced with a new product. Our gutter company stood behind it and made it right. I have the fine mesh screen on my place and have never had a minutes trouble. Talk to your local reputable gutter company they should know the best products for your area.


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## DavidC

Anyone tried these? http://www.leafsolution.com/

We've got a few of them installed on the homes of repeat clients, as long as 5-6 years ago. I am at these homes at least once or twice a year and have never had a complaint about their performance. (With the exception of a repair, I haven't inspected them since either.)

There was one that I had to go back and replace a blow off after a few years. The gutter was clean still, the guard was not clogged with debris.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Shellbuilder

Tom Struble said:


> thing that always seemed goofy to me was the gutter helmet at inside miters,there you need to put in a screen:blink:


Before moving to the beach, I lived in a neighborhood full of pine trees. Those closed top, open sides filled with pine needles and rotted away or pulled away from the weight. No way to clean them easily.


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## GutterSavant

*There Are Some That Work!*

Hey Guys,

I just came across your discussion and wanted to give my 2 cents. I have been installing gutters and guards for 13 years, and most of what is out there is ok at best.:no:

If you want to offer a product to your customers that will not ruin your credibility there are a few that work, but in the gutter guard world you get what you pay for and you have to explain this to your customer. The ones who have real basement water problems will pay top dollar for a product that works. :clap:

Get your hands on one of the following (enough for a job or two) and when it comes up give them a real solution. Leaf Solution(make sure it's the high flow), Rhino Gutter Guard, or Versaguard. Charge 3x what it cost you and install it right with end caps.

Cheers,

GS:thumbup:


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## Acres

> I still say that $35-$50 a year is money better spent on a clean out service.


Yup I don't charge that, minimum 120$ for say one level ranch with easy access. The higher up I go, so does the price.. OOO and unless your hungry and plan on eating the leaves there's a min 15 dollar disposal fee, usually can find some regular sized branches left on flatter roofs to. It can take a couple different ladders 3-4, some barrels, (A quick tip is carry a compound bucket with you also) maybe a tarp, rake, and blower, rubber gloves, sometimes I use a gutter scoop.. Honestly the best gutter guard you can buy is a good chainsaw.. Cleaning out gutters at least for me is a PIA..I avoid them as best I can now, I won't even do full two story houses (colonials) anymore..


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## Willy is

Of some of the work I do cleaning gutters pays very well. I may end up doing jobs that others won't do due to heights, bad ground terrain etc. (but not for $25 dollars. : ) )

Many gutter guards work well, but they may not work well in all situations and locations.

Needles, as mentioned will work through mesh and clog gutters. Some trees produce waste/ pollen/seeds that can enter and defeat systems. Once a system is clogged water damage from leakage into the house can occur. In some cases it may not be a wet carpet, but mold, rot, or damaged foundations. I see plenty of stone and brick cracking that I attribute to gutter/downspout issues and years of neglect.

I have seen nests at ground level in downspouts, and nests at the gutter level areas. Plastic and aluminum can be chewed or bent by determined critters.

Sure, gutter helmet won't clog as easily, but I'm not sure that it captures all water in severe rains. The more restricted the guards are the tougher they are to clean when they get clogged. They may also be next to impossible to double check to make sure that they are clean.

Whether I am walking a roof or working it from a ladder once the gutters are clean I can send a blast of air down a downspout and see either leafs and debris fly out, or see the grass on the lawn waving. I KNOW it's free.

You can't do that with gutter helmet. If you are attempting to blow through some gutter guard the velocity is reduced, sometimes it's harder to tell. This last fall I removed shingle grit on one job that was half the height of the gutter in some areas. My guess is that gutter helmet will allow some of that roofing grit and or needles or pollen into the gutters, particularly at valleys. Now...... how does one check for or remove that? 

I have removed some systems sold for high dollar on some homes. In the end, it's cheaper, longer lasting and safer to just go there twice a year and clean. That's just how it works on some homes, IMHO.

Nothing is best for everything. 

willy


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## ijt1970

There are Quite a few leaf guards out there that are effective at keeping the leaves out yet still allowing the water in.Keep in mind however that there are no products on the market that are completely maintenance free.The advantage to having leaf guard really depends on the individual house in question.
If the house is 2 or more stories and not walkable,I will generally recommend that the customer think about investing in a leaf protection product.
Deciding wich one to use comes down to a number of thoughts to consider.....
1) What types of trees are surrounding the property? 
2) Do they shed large leaves? small leaves? pineneedles? Buds? Berrys? Twigs?
3) How often do they shed? Year round? just in the fall?
40 What type of roof do they have? Asphalt will shed granules each year, Tiles may require only certain types of leafguard. same with flat roofs or shake.
Once these things have been determined you can start to figure out wich TYPE of leafguard may work the best for that particular property.
1) mesh leaf screen like "EZ-LOCK" is a pretty good bang for your buck if the house has trees with large sized leaves only.It wont work well for the smaller debris.It also has the advantage that it can be installed flat like a guttercover or under the shingles at the same pitch as the roof (this can help by letting gravity clean some of the leaves off the screen)
2) Gutter covers like "leaf relief are great products if you can get them for the right price.They usually consist of a solid aluminum panel with many small holes on the surface.They usually can handle a lot of water even with debris sitting on top of them.Good for most sizes of leaves and or buds and berrys.Capture about 90% of the pine needles (however the covers should be swept off a couple of times a year if possible.Its much easier to sweep off the covers than to clean out the gutters and the plugged up downspouts. "Leaf Relief" has the added bonus in that it acts as a big long hidden hanger for the gutters as well, Giving new gutter systems 3 Xs the strength of the average gutter system. Check out "Shur Flo" it is a cheap knock off of leaf relief , and although it is a little flimsier than some of the other products, The prices and the effectiveness are very good.(you should use extra hangers on the gutters if using this product so ice and snow do not damage.
3) If you still want a product that keeps 99% of all debris out including roof granules then try "Leaf solution" this product has a series of humps in the panel and its covered in a surgical steel mesh. The only downsides to this product are that It is very expensive and it has to be installed at just the right angle and fastened under the roof shingles. (if there is a way to use this product with tile or shake roofs I am not sure.Ive never heard of a way to do it)
So in the end there are many things to consider when a customer askes you about leaf protection products. In my opinion if I have to charge 20-30 $ per foot for leaf protection then the customer should just pay a company to clean them as needed.If I can help the customer to save money and a piece of mind in the long run than it is worthwhile.
aplusgutters.org


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## jrag

smart screen is amazing i use ut all the time


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## allcityexterior

Cleaning gutters is a problem. You'd have to clean them weekly in some wooded areas to keep them clean. Otherwise just a few leaves will clog a downspout. 

There are basicly 3 kinds of gutter guards. All are better than nothing but none are completely maintenance free.
1. Screens-can be plastic from Home Depot or a solid aluminum or stee with powder coating. Biggest problem here is when they blow out or have gaps in them. Install the screens under the shingles-this gives a pitch to the screen and helps debris to blow off. Also screw the front edge of the screen to the gutter. This will keep it in place. Screw 3 times for a 4 foot section. Finally, wrap the screen inside the endcap to prevent gaps there. With the screens that allow some small debris through it is a good idea to install the 3x4 downspout that will flush some small debris.
Pricing is $2-5 a foot.
2. Solid covers like Gutter Helmet, Leafree, Leafproof, LeafGuard. These do a good job keeping stuff out but usually collecta layer of small debris on the bottom of the nose-just before the water goes into the gutter. This can prevent water from flowing in. The maintenance here includes blowing that buildup off with a hose-maybe 1 time a year-depending on tree debris for the house. Some companies offer a No Clog Guarantee. This is usually an agreement that if the gutters clog they will take them apart, clean them out, and put them back together.
Pricing is $7-20 foot.
3. Micromesh screens like Gutterglove, Leaf Solution, Gutter Dome, and Mastershield. These keep all debris out, including shingle grit. Debris may occasionally collect on top-especially at inside corners. This can be brushed off easily with a brush on a pole. The micromesh usually continues to work even with debris on top. Some of these companies offer a No Clog guarantee that the money will be refunded if the gutter ever clogs.
Pricing is $7-20 a foot.


Madison Roofing
Madison Siding


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## Ballboomer

I do seamless gutters and have had good luck with sure flo guards,the price is good and they work great.


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## Rob1954

Biggest complaint I hear about the helmet type guards which rely on the capillary action of the water to flow over the edge and into the gutter, is you still have to clean them.

Small debris, pollen, and dirt will adhere to the curved edge and disturb the flow, allowing the water to flow past and down the front of the gutter.

The cleaning is easier than shoveling granules, dirt, and leaves out of the gutter channel. But you can still figure on getting out the ladder every year to wash the helmets and blow the leaves off the edge of the roof.


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## PCI

I have a house that I have been cleaning the Gutters for the last 12 yrs, the customer let me try several types of gaurds and none seemed to work to a point of giving me piece of mind in heavy rain, they all still needed cleaning. Because of our MN Winterand all of the tree drppings I ended up putting on larger Gutters and spouts, adding more spouts and cleaning the Gutters once a month. I also get at addl work. Thanks for the shouts on the products you like, good to know


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## rdr8887

Experience and a few honest gutter installers have told me that the best guards are the mesh ones. If the home isn't surrounded by pine trees, they work the best. Anything small enough to go through the mesh will filter out the downspouts. Water will never pour over the top either. 

Most gutter guards are plain junk. Simple is best. I'm not talking about the ones you have to curl to get them into the gutter (meaning you get a pocket for debris to build up between the guard and the roof). The kind I am referring to is about 10" wide and clips on to the front of the gutter and lays under the first shingle. 

I have them on my house with no issues. You can get them in multiple colors as well. However, if you have a bunch of pine trees, the needles will get stuck in the mesh.


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## allcityexterior

Rob1954 said:


> Biggest complaint I hear about the helmet type guards which rely on the capillary action of the water to flow over the edge and into the gutter, is you still have to clean them.
> 
> Small debris, pollen, and dirt will adhere to the curved edge and disturb the flow, allowing the water to flow past and down the front of the gutter.
> 
> The cleaning is easier than shoveling granules, dirt, and leaves out of the gutter channel. But you can still figure on getting out the ladder every year to wash the helmets and blow the leaves off the edge of the roof.


Yup! 

__________________________________
Madison Roofing Madison Siding


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## Gutterguru

Ive been looking at the raindrop gutter guard and Im looking for some further input. It looks like something that might work and its different from all the others ive installed. They said they have contractors all over the country so there must be some on here.www.raindropgutterguard.com


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## SSC

LEAF GUARD gutters.


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## Gutterguru

SSC said:


> LEAF GUARD gutters.


Ive tried Leaf guard in the past and ended up with a lot of headaches and almost lost some good customers. It does a decent job keeping the gutters clean but so much water would flow over the front. I opted out of becoming a dealer because I didn't want to mislead my customers and give them a product that causes damage to their home.


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## SSC

Never had a problem with leaf guards. put on 10 years ago been great ever since.


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## rosethornva

Has anyone mentioned Gutter Brushes?

I have a lot of gutters on my house and a lot of trees hanging over the house. Gutter Brushes are the best thing since sliced bread. 

Easy to install and remove (if necessary), and nothing will clog them up enough to inhibit water flow. 

http://www.gutterbrush.com/


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## A&E Exteriors

Leaf relief


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## ohiohomedoctor

ALL gutter guard systems are over priced and the gutter guard industry as a whole is kin to the sleazy used car business. The guards cost on average 3-10 times what new gutters cost. Just have your gutters replaced every other year and it would still be cheaper..


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## Tom Struble

''all'' is not true there are more reasonably price products out there that work

cleaning gutters today does not mean tomorrow they won't be clogged:no:


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## ohiohomedoctor

Like which one Tom?


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## Tom Struble

leaf relief or it's clone from Raytec have worked great for me,i have it on my house,the Raytec i have installed at about 3 bucks a ft

but i agree most of the12-25 dollar a ft stuff out there are ridiculous


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## ohiohomedoctor

$3 ft is more like it. At least it cost just a little more than new gutters.


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## BamBamm5144

I get leaf relief for $27 for a 10 ft stick. After I add what I charge to install it, it's a little more than new gutters.

Rain drop gutter guards work pretty well too.


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## gutterboyz

*Gutter guards rarely work...*

Used to be in the industry, and they are overpriced and you will see problems with them.

The punched aluminum gg lets in dirt and pine needles which clog gutters over time, the screen mesh coats with pollen and won't let water in, plus it still has pine needles sticking up all over it no matter what they say. 

The Rhino and Evelyn's leaf solution (both made by the same company) cost $3 a foot . The Xtreme Gutter Guard also made by the same company) is exactly the same but only $1.39. 

You just have to negotiate the price. Pretty shady business if you ask me.


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## BamBamm5144

I made a switch to rain drop completely this year and it's just as good as any of them.


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## CopperSmith

Been using SmartGuard for some time now with our gutter company, COPPERSMITH GUTTER COMPANY. 

Smart Guard has a dealership program and only sells to gutter guys. We have had great luck with it. 

http://www.smartguardmn.com/
http://smartguardamerica.com/


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## TheSidingGuy

a gutter needs good pitch for screens to work correctly!!!!!~


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## builditguy

In the last few years, I have seen houses with gutter helmet that have developed problems along the eave.
The helmet seems to lift the bottom course of shingles too much. It creates an area where the water runs down the roof and then back toward the house. Then it runs sideways until it gets to a spot where it can go between the seams in the shingles.

I have seen more than one place where roof sheeting and sub-fascia has rotted out. In a short time. I realize in a perfect world it may be great, but I suspect we will see more of this in the future.


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## Eco 2

http://www.gratergutterguard.com works well


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