# staining maple?



## ParagonFloors (Sep 27, 2010)

anybody have any luck? If so whats your secret.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I was in woodcraft the other day asking the same thing. I was looking for a finish on some pine but wanted the maple cabinets I built to look the same and he advised me to use a gel stain. I got to say that the stairs come out really nice. I applied shellac before the gel stain though so that it didn't get too dark. I have yet to try it on the maple but if it works as well as on the pine then I'm gonna be big fan of gel stains.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

If you applied shellac to the stairs before you did the staining with the gel stain they you cannot say the the gel stain did the job. You put down a wash coat which will limit the stains penetration. 

Maple is a tough wood to make look good using stains. Gel stains will help because it slows the release of the pigments to the wood as opposed to a liquid stain which will put in down full force.

When I am staining cabinets that are maple I apply a conditioner. It is just a stain that has no pigments in it. What it does is let the wood absorb the stain base and all the thirsty areas get quenched with the clear stain. You let it dry for a while and them apply the stain. Now the stain will not get readily soaked up by the wood because the conditioner has already been absorbed by the wood. his will reduce or eliminate the blotchiness that occurs with Maple. The longer you let the conditioner sit and dry the better it will work. But, it will also limit the darkness that the stain can become. Always to a sample. The lower the grit sanding you do the darker the wood can become.


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## MAD Renovations (Nov 18, 2007)

Great advice Leo.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Leo G said:


> If you applied shellac to the stairs before you did the staining with the gel stain they you cannot say the the gel stain did the job. You put down a wash coat which will limit the stains penetration.
> 
> Maple is a tough wood to make look good using stains. Gel stains will help because it slows the release of the pigments to the wood as opposed to a liquid stain which will put in down full force.
> 
> When I am staining cabinets that are maple I apply a conditioner. It is just a stain that has no pigments in it. What it does is let the wood absorb the stain base and all the thirsty areas get quenched with the clear stain. You let it dry for a while and them apply the stain. Now the stain will not get readily soaked up by the wood because the conditioner has already been absorbed by the wood. his will reduce or eliminate the blotchiness that occurs with Maple. The longer you let the conditioner sit and dry the better it will work. But, it will also limit the darkness that the stain can become. Always to a sample. The lower the grit sanding you do the darker the wood can become.


That was the reason I added the shellac Leo. The stain was nutmeg and was to dark and blotchy on the unsealed pine. The guy advised like you to do a clear stain but it still come out to dark. I will try the clear stain on the maple like you say above as the pine got very dark with the nutmeg stain. Much darker than the sample they had on pine.

Below was how they come out. Match really well with our olde mill maple floors.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Might be a bit of overkill for a floor. But if you are meticulous it will look fantastic. I have been finishing for about 3-4 years now. I started out knowing very little, Minwax stains and polyurethane. Now I go between pre cats, post cats, conversion varnishes, quick drying stains, shaders, toners and glazes. It has been a hell of a ride.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

BCConstruction said:


> That was the reason I added the shellac Leo. The stain was nutmeg and was to dark and blotchy on on sealed pine. The guy advised like you to do a clear stain but it still come out to dark. I will try the clear stain on the maple like you say above as the pine got very dark with the nutmeg stain. Much darker than the sample they had on pine.
> 
> Below was how they come out. Match really well with our old mill maple floors.


Depends on the sanding that you did. The finer the sanding the lighter the stain will come out. Also, depending on what conditioners you use depends on how long you need it to dry. The stuff I use works best with a 20 minute dry time. But my stains are coat-able in 30 minute, they are production designed. If you are using an oil based conditioner you may have to wait overnight or 24 hours before you can apply the stain. I'm sure the product will say the time frame in the instructions.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Might be a bit of overkill for a floor. But if you are meticulous it will look fantastic. I have been finishing for about 3-4 years now. I started out knowing very little, Minwax stains and polyurethane. Now I go between pre cats, post cats, conversion varnishes, quick drying stains, shaders, toners and glazes. It has been a hell of a ride.


I was confused with just basic stains. That's the first staining I have ever done lol. I think I finished with 180 grit. I think the stain did say not to go any higher than 240. I would like to learn more about stains but that will come in time.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Oh believe me you don't....You can't imagine what you will be getting yourself into :laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Oh believe me you don't....You can't imagine what you will be getting yourself into :laughing:


I know who to goto when I need to know now. :thumbsup:


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## Terrorron (Nov 7, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Might be a bit of overkill for a floor. But if you are meticulous it will look fantastic. I have been finishing for about 3-4 years now. I started out knowing very little, Minwax stains and polyurethane. Now I go between pre cats, post cats, conversion varnishes, quick drying stains,* shaders, toners* and glazes. It has been a hell of a ride.


These...and custom-mixed NGR spray stains ("Microtone's") are the answer to the common "b1tchy species"...a bit out of the depth of the average carpenter however (as are the bulk of post-cats/ conversion varnishes). 

As you know, quaility control during prep _and_ application is paramount when working with production-grade products.

I've been finishing wood since the late '80's...I remember when "pre-cats" (Klintens [now Becker-Acroma]; here in Canada) were the be all/ end all answer to the common problems of standard NC's...as you say, _a long and winding road._

I try to contribute to these discussions, but it is almost like speaking in Greek, when advising someone with only a rudimentary knowledge level. A highly specialized discipline indeed.

Cheers, Ron


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## The_Floorguy (Aug 17, 2010)

it's common sense. Really not that difficult. I've done it a bazillion times using regular stain. oh and don't even sand 240 grit when staining, especially maple (can't believe it says even that high)


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Water popping maple is a must to get a consistent staining. The pores need to be reopened that the sanding closes. When sanding, you're bending the fibers of the wood over the pores, or clogging them with really fine dust. The bigger pores won't clog as much, thus accepting more stain, where as the closed pores, the majority of the stain will wipe off. By lightly wetting the wood with a damp rag, you'll reopen those poors to accept a more even stain.

Test boards are a must in getting stain the way you want it. We've switched to Rustoleum's nano stains & the majority of our staining issues have gone away. The pigment is ground super fine & we get a lot more consistency in all woods. No more bleed back in oak like we had with minwax.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Maple...sanding...*

just be careful not to sand the grain structure closed... 180 is as high as I go for certain woods being stained.. maple included...  NGR stain system.. dye & rub stain.. - minwax= mostly thinners and not much pigment. ....JMO

B.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

pinwheel said:


> Water popping maple is a must to get a consistent staining. The pores need to be reopened that the sanding closes. When sanding, you're bending the fibers of the wood over the pores, or clogging them with really fine dust. The bigger pores won't clog as much, thus accepting more stain, where as the closed pores, the majority of the stain will wipe off. By lightly wetting the wood with a damp rag, you'll reopen those poors to accept a more even stain.
> 
> Test boards are a must in getting stain the way you want it. We've switched to Rustoleum's nano stains & the majority of our staining issues have gone away. The pigment is ground super fine & we get a lot more consistency in all woods. No more bleed back in oak like we had with minwax.


Water popping will not eliminate blotchiness. It will let the maple get a very dark stain.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I use a water based stain with high solids content. The last job I did I mixed in some white to lighten it up. I think I also used the water based conditioner before staining. It turned out perfect, no splotchiness and consistent color throughout the board.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Water popping will not eliminate blotchiness. It will let the maple get a very dark stain.


I don't think I said it would prevent blotchiness, Pretty sure I said it would make it more consistent. Staining floors is a lot different than staining furniture. But on both, to do it with any consistancy, takes experience. Darkness can be controlled to an extent with thinners. More solvent, means less pigment. With the nano stains, the pigment is fine enough to spread throughout the thinned finish better.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I would have to say that making the color more consistent and preventing blotchiness are about the same thing. :thumbup:


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

The key to staining maple is the perfect sanding job. The progression that I have found to work is; drum sand with a 50 grit, edge with 50, edge again with 80, then 80 drum sand, then palm sand the edges with a 60 grit sand paper. After this buff the floor with an 80 grit sanding screen. Then wipe the floor down with water, let dry and stain. I like to stain with a floor buffer with a thin white pad. It goes on great.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

RhodesHardwood said:


> The key to staining maple is the perfect sanding job. The progression that I have found to work is; drum sand with a 50 grit, edge with 50, edge again with 80, then 80 drum sand, then palm sand the edges with a 60 grit sand paper. After this buff the floor with an 80 grit sanding screen. Then wipe the floor down with water, let dry and stain. I like to stain with a floor buffer with a thin white pad. It goes on great.


That describes my process almost to the T, except I use my U sand to transition the edger work with the drum work & screen with 120 grit screen. Never been brave enough to try staining with the buffer, but plan to one of these days. Wanna elaborate a little more on this process?


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