# Moak 32" Band saw ?????



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Well,*

Let me tell you why i don't want to do that based on information that I have read about RPC's. The efficiency/irregularity in the balanced voltage creates unstable voltage and there in lyes the problem -adding the VFD is not advisable and if it was acceptable as an add on , there is even more loss of efficiency- I don't know for sure , I am just going by what I read, does this have any ""*bearing*"" on the subject,,,ohhhhhhhhh- sorry Leo, it sliped, I was totally "*out of alingnment",*,,, ohh, dam I did it again,,,, sorry Leo:laughing:
check this out and tell me what you think, http://www.phaseconverterinfo.com/phaseconverter_efficiency.htm and BTW ,,,what are you guys doing for 3ph? 
Thanks:thumbsup:
Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian, 
My shop has a 200 amp single phase service, & a 200 amp 240v 3ph service. Lately, I've been considering bringing in 460 3ph to get the amperage I need for some more machines, suchas a 5 head moulder. I'm about maxed out now. For now though, I'll have to make due with what we have.
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Joe,*

I am a one man operation, so I don't have several machines running at once as I said before. You do production work- so I am just guessing you have several machines running at the same time- I see where you could have problems with a lack of amperage. 
I am assuming most of your equipment is 3ph- your a prime candidate for VFD's especially because you already have 3ph at the shop- 
Have you used variable frequency drives on any of your equipment? Did you read the hyperlink about phase conversion- It stated that Digital phase converters and VFD's are more efficient than RPC's and draw less current on startup and during operation. What do you think, ,anyone? 



Inner: what's the scoop a with your shop?
Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian,
Since I already have 3ph, I just use transformers (buck/boost) to get the voltage I need.... no frequency converter needed.

Most of the time only one big machine runs at a time, but on occasion, it's an issue. I have a 5hp paint booth that runs most the time, 3 hp hydraulic twister, 7 1/2 hp collector, 2 15 hp lathes (Mattison, & Diehl), 2 10 hp Nash turning sanders, 25 hp Extrema xess thickness sander, a 60 hp Griggio gang rip, 10 hp planer, 40 amp Blue M batch oven, plus a few more I can't think of right now. We are just a small shop (4 to 5 guys), but on occasion, we all work with different machines. So far it's not been am issue, but I'd really like to buy a moulder while they're cheap!
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*time,,*

yes, now is the time to get the moulder. - I was not refering to the VFD to step up voltage , just control--of machinery. Sounds like you are really close to the edge as far as amperage, know I see why you want to bump it up- :thumbsup:
Brian


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Inner: what's the scoop a with your shop?


My shop is now my basement. :laughing: I use to have a small one in an industrial park with a 3-phase service, I used to build alot of custom brackets and accessories for installing commercial sound systems and TV lifts; I never had any decent equipement to write home about. In the past 2 years I got rid of it and saw the light that a local metal company and my neighbor cabinet maker do it better faster and cheaper then I could. I'm more into integration now and need machinery less and less.

Most of my 3-phase expierienced stemmed from my father's laundromat. A 3 phase service was installed and lots of the machines were replaced by ones with 3-phase motors. 

3-phase motors are better in nearly every respect, that I have lots of first hand expierience with.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

If Prestige has wetted your appetites to OLE ARN bandsaws IRS auctions has 2 dream saws up on the block Tuesday









An OLIVER 115D (left) and a TANNY GH 36" on the right.



Craig


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*I would take ,,,,,*

either one---:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:, preferably the "OLi" Sweet,but, to late for me and unfortunatly they are probably 5hp/3ph- I can deal with 3, but not 5, I already found my love:laughing:

That Oliver needs a paint job-that's sick

Thanks:thumbsup:
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Charimon,*

That is the IRS auction site????? ,,,where the hell is it???? , I can't find it--wondering what there going to end up at $$$$$ :whistling Love that Oliver-(not the paint) and the Tanny-Sweet
I got 1 week- it's coming:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::clap:THE MOAK:thumbsup:
:whistling:whistling- waiting patiently:furious:
Brian


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

http://irsauctions.com/


These are in the Aspen cabinet and Millwork auction
Right now the Tanny is $750 and the Oly is $300

Someone wants the *Oliver 299T, 24” Surfacer/Planer










She is at $3550
*


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*The planer...not surprised*

That planer looks like it is in almost pristine condition,, the Oli-$300,,, surprising- Hey Char,,thank for the link:thumbsup:- maybe it's Leo bidding on that planer-:whistlingThat is one sweet machine:thumbsup:,,probably 7.5hp, or 10 maybe
Thanks Chair,
Brian


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

10 :thumbsup:


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

UPDATE:
The Tanny sold for $1750
the Oli for $500

Craig


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Chaimon,,*

it aint over- Tanny- 2750,,Oli 850,,,, :thumbsup:
Thanks for the update:thumbsup:
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*flipped-Oliver $$$$$$*

Oliver went for $3200,,, Tanny $2650,, I thought that was a little odd in the begining- WOW:thumbsup: 299 PLaner went for $4000.00 
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Not even worth bidding on anything until the last hour or so. The prices usually sky rocket by then. And by then it almost isn't worth it. But those two were a great deal at those prices.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

Oh good I was almost SICK
That is what i get for posting things before they are updated as final


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*I concur Leo,,*



Leo G said:


> Not even worth bidding on anything until the last hour or so. The prices usually sky rocket by then. And by then it almost isn't worth it. But those two were a great deal at those prices.


 
New,,,,,,forget it- $12,000 or more in todays market a fraction of what it would cost.
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Need some suggetions -next week it's coming!*

I have a 48 & a36" wide door 80" H opening- the MOAK BS is 97" tall and weighs 1500lbs - I have to figure some way of getting it in- I would rather not disassemble the BS and get it in the shop in 1 piece, any suggestions? 
Thank you
Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian,
You're going to have to tip it over, either frontwards, or backwards. My first thought was to remove the top wheel, & door, but judging ffrom the picts, that won't get you the 17" ht reduction you need. I assume you don't have a fork lift available. You might be able to put the bottom on a pallet & carry with a pallet jackjack, while you use an engine hoist to support the top at an angle. The best bet might be to make up a custom pallet to cradle it in at an angle. 
You could lay it all the way over, but without seeing how the table is fastened, I can't recomend. Most of the weight should be on the lower 1/2.
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Hey Railman,*

thank you- tell you what- it's late- I want to talk to you, over the weekend,
Thank you
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Good morning railman,*

So what you are saying is build a pallet of some sort - on the backbone of the BS or the front? I have no forklift, dollies- what I would like to do is lay it horizontally in some type of cradle and then on some moving dollies- but that may be overkill? This is starting to worry me - I don't want to damage the BS. The Oliver (even though it weighs over 2 tons) was not a problem- no height issues- this is a total different ball of wax. 
Can you elaborate on your idea Railman? 
Thank you
Brian.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Way to over think something. :w00t:

Build out of 2x4 a support system. Build it right around the BS. On the bottom stick a couple of caster wheels and roll that puppy through the door.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*good morning Leo,,*

Leo,
I know- overthinking again- , so you say build a frame and lay it down on it's front side or back. Lee ,,, Is that what you mean? 
Thank you
Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian,
Are you sure it's 97" tall? If it's a 32" saw, the wheels would be 32". When I scale your original pict, I come up with about 80" oa ht. If that's the case, I'd remove the top wheel & door. It should be fairly easy.
Joe


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Lay it down on its backbone. Keep it supported well. Put the casters so it is balanced. So 2 casters 20" from the top and 20" from the bottom. Like putting a long board on a pair of sawhorses. Move them around until the board is at its straightest. That is where you should put the casters.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*OK, some corrections,*

I was looking at the wrong specs- I have a list of BS's that I was looking at - you are write- it is 88" on a pallet 94" the 36 I was looking at was 97" - But that does not resolve the height problem? 
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*That is what I was thinking,*

But I never moved something like this shape. Weighs 1500# - you think a couple of guys on the back would work- drop it in the frame as you say ( on moving dollies) would work? just don't want to bust anything on her.
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

It only weighs 1500 lbs if you lift it off the ground. If you keep one corner on the ground 2 guys should be able to tilt it over on its back. The bandsaw should be bottom heave also.

You could probably just make a few 3 wheeled carts and lean it over and wheel it in. You need a garage door dude.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Leo,*

Gee thanks Lee, (only 1500#s if I pick it up) come on - I'm not brain dead Lee- give me some credit,  :laughing::laughing:,
Well,
I'll do that , - I have a bunch of moving dollies- thats what I used for the Oliver. sometimes we just need a little nudge- 
Thanks Leo/Railman-
I'll update this when it gets here- the move and in the shop-I can't wait:clap:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Just saw this now. I told you last night I needed to be in the shop at the crack of 10am :laughing:

Glad the shoving helped


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Well, 
Did you get it yet?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*It's comin to the shop,, just waiting ,,,,,*

for Mike (the owner)to get back to me on the shipping, and the insurance ,believe me,when it gets here I will be posting the updates :thumbsup:- thanks for asking Joe, you and yours have a great weekend:thumbup:
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Hey Leo, Remember how you where razing me Friday night,,,,,*

Well- after all the abuse you gave me Friday night- I got the call at 1:42pm -TODAY. Mike is putting on the pallet today and is going to the dock Tuesday/Wednesday and she should arrive here Friday- I'm hoping. I know you had no idea where it was coming from - so $700.00 would have been close if it was coming from the east coast.:whistling 

I think it's safe to give you the information now- I was warned about you- you may have pulled a mickey on me and before you know it- I got nothing and it's in your shop:jester:http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44613. The guys on OWWM are great people, Wealth of knowledge about "equipment built to last a lifetime" I love BEEFY MACHINERY with an attitude:thumbsup:
Anyhow- Truth be told I don't "officially own it until she is resting on my shop floor- but 99% sure it will be. ---yeeeeeeeeeee,haaaaaaaaa:clap:Going to repaint the Oliver 20C to match- I like the color better than whats on the Oliver20C. She's my prize possession:thumbup:

Your next in line for a new "older" serious BS Leo:thumbsup:. I had the same bench top BS you have. If your interested- I know a lot of WW people Leo, be more than happy to help you out:thumbsup: He has another one if your interested- you let me know- real nice guy, very good man! HONEST:thumbsup:
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Like you said, it ain't yours til its sitting on the shop floor.

I'm sure it will arrive safe and in one pc. I was sure it was gonna get delivered to my shop 



dammit :laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Safe in one piece,,*

yea,,,, that's what worries me Leo- He won't take my payment till it gets here- I tried, but he said if something should go wrong, hopefully NOT well work it out after,,, 
But see, I am an honest man Leo, and you are write- it isn't mine till it's resting on my shop floor:thumbsup: care to wager:laughing::laughing: on a side note Leo, I know Mike pretty well- and I think he does have another BS 36" Crescent- sweet machine-little to much for me, size wise, hes a good man Leo - I'll PM you about the saw and "the man" you let me know and I will talk with him,
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Hey Leo- got a question for you,*

I talked with Mike Yesterday and i found out why he couldn't sell the saw. He replaced all the bolts on the Moak with stainless steel, I think that great, personally! He told me he wanted to be upfront- which he always is as I said. But I don't care personally - He told me he had several inquires and a hand full of people that were going to take it- but when they found out it didn't have the original hardware - they bailed out. 
The MOAK BS has all new bearings, new rubber, all new guides- Carter, the bearings on the motor were replaced- and he also had the table resurfaced - looks brand new for Christ sakes and no one on OWWM wanted it because of the hardware not being original. I am not looking to create a museum ,I understand that it is best to keep the original parts but - do you ,IYO, think it makes that much difference? I want to use it- not put it in a display case
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Personally, if you flip the switch and it does what it is suppose to do, let'r rip.

If you are buying it as a collectors item, then I can see the reason, but for shop use. Damn, it works, use it.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*I have a stresfull day tomarrow,*

Moak coming Tomarrow LEE, ESTES PR# 1720090576,, however,,,so is my dad's OH surgury-:sad::sad: just wanted to let you know Lee, 
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Who is this Lee character you speak of?

Best wishes to your Dad.

My MIL just came out of surgery for a blocked gall bladder duct and a blocked pancreas duct. They put in a couple of stents. Everything seemed to have gone well.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Glad to hear that your MIL is doing better Lee*

I am seriously glad to hear that Leo:thumbsup:. Why I Call you Lee,, it is short for Leo,, freind of mine, same name, I call him Lee,:thumbsup: Only because I like the guy :thumbsup:, My freinds call me Bernie-:thumbsup:
Thank you
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

PrestigeR&D said:


> My freinds call me Bernie-:thumbsup:
> Thank you
> Brian


Good to know that Brian. :whistling











:laughing:


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian, 
Hope all goes well for your dad. Doc's do amazing things these days.:thumbsup:
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Thanks Joe*

My father called me last night and put me on with the doctor, he has a hard time talking sometimes with the Parkinson's so She said he is not having the surgery till Monday, I am relieved . He has some minor complications that need to be cleared up and then he is having the OHS. Just want this to be over for him:sad:

Off to make the spine jig for the BS at 8:00, I'll post pictures when she gets planted on the shop floor:thumbsup:

Thanks for the words Joe:thumbsup:
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*It's sitting at ESTES docks in*

Blasdell ,NY - and it arives Monday Morning-:thumbsup: BTW- my dad,,,,,,,,:thumbsup:everything went great, time to recoop and rehab for the next 7-10 days, so thats good news:clap::thumbsup: thanks guys:thumbsup:

So I drove down there at ESTES docks, checked her out-, everything went well, no problems he did an amazing job with packaging, bolted it on a pallet, took the main and rear tables off, Shrink wraped the entire BS ,and he gave me 2 new blades to boot,, it is huge,,not as big as a 116D Oli, but none the less, it's big, but absolutly beautifull:thumbsup:. 
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*It's finally over- The MOAK 32" is resting in my shop!*

After 11 1/2hrs it's in. What a pain this was compared to my Oliver and that weighs 4x what this did. Had to build a special crate for her because we had to haul it to my shop horizontally- to tall for the box truck - 93" with the pallet under her. 
I could not have done this without my friends Tom from Dival safety & equipment and Greg my neighbor:thumbsup:. But especially my brother-saved me a boat load. I gave some cash & beer for the helping me out :drink: Thanks Wayne:thumbsup: 

So here is a crap load of pictures from start to finish- starting with Dan the driver for ESTES, and Tommy from Dival on the forklift.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,,,*

pictures,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*more,,*

Pictures,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,,,*

Pictures,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,,,*

Pictures,,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,,*

Pictures,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,,*

Pictures,,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,,,*

Pictures,,,finally in her resting place- for now,,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*And finally,,,*

the last 2 :thumbsup:. Well worth the hasle- let me tell you- just an awsome band saw--:clap::clap::clap:. I took these with my phone , but not to bad for a phone,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*I found he Solution from single ph220 to 3ph,,,,,at 5hp and 17.5 amps.*

My friend Anton (VF Guroo) pined it down in 5 min. A 5hp Yaskawa VFD - 
CIMR-PBAB3P7 inc Digital keypad controller JVOP-100. This unit is designed for single phase as the input and will handle up to 17.5 amps - The Master Motor is rated at 13.5 amps so this unit is better that acceptable. 
Just a few years ago (5) when I installed my Yaskawa JP7 the inputs on that VFD was single or 3ph with a factor of having to dbl the hP on the VFD if using the single ph 220v as the input. Apparently since 2005 there have been a lot of updates to the technology on VFD's from when I purchased mine back in 2005. When I get the VFD I'll be mounting it to the band saw /w the remote digital keypad, just have to find the write location and make it user friendly and safe. I'll be posting this VFD 3ph solution for those of you looking into this up at: http://www.contractortalk.com/f5/vfd-off-rpc-limitations-76646/ 

Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian,
Looks like the move went well! It was nice to have the saw laydown done for you in advance. It looked simple enough, but I'm sure there was some fear involved in the process.
I'd love to have that saw!

Thank's for sharing picts.
Joe


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Right - right - right not write.


Glad you found the VFD. I knew they weren't like you were describing them. Hadn't heard of a 5HP for a single phase source though. That's an improvement.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Leo G said:


> Right - right - right not write.
> 
> 
> Glad you found the VFD. I knew they weren't like you were describing them. *Hadn't heard of a 5HP for a single phase source though*. That's an improvement.


 
Hello Brian, we would be able to provide to you a Yaskawa CIMR-PBAB3P7. The drive has a single phase input and is rated for 17.5A output. We would also provide with the appropriate keypad programming the drive.

CIMR-PBAB3P7
JVOP-100
Please contact me with your company information so that I can generate an official quote.
*Jason King
Sales Engineer
**Precision Zone Inc
**311 Egidi Drive
**Wheeling**, IL 60090
**Tel: (847) 465-9060
**Fax: (847) 465-9075
**e-mail: jking**@precisionzone.com*
*web: **www.precisionzone.com*

​Talk with Anton, This guy is a genious,,if you buy from him, make sure you tell him I refered you. 
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Joe- it was a nightmare,,,*



Railman said:


> Brian,
> Looks like the move went well! It was nice to have the saw laydown done for you in advance. It looked simple enough, but I'm sure there was some fear involved in the process.
> I'd love to have that saw!
> 
> ...


 Getting it off the truck and in the shop. The saw did not come horizontally shipped, we had to tip her over and top strap it to the forklift ,,,,,slowly after I built the custom crate around her. When we got it in and over to my shop, unfortunately, I was to worried about the saw at that point to take pictures, We had three guys on her at this point.We had it sitting on the back of the lift, strapped to the wall bracket strap tie down braces in the truck and slowly lower the lift while maintaining a taunt line on the Moak. We had to leave it on an angle in order to rest on the lift, and that was on an angle as well- downward, hence the straps-. Once we got it on the ground and on the moving dollies - it didn't go to bad- but boy did that draw some attention with the neighbors. They must think I'm nuts- you should have seen it when the oliver came off the trailer :laughing::laughing:. But all in all it was a learning experience and I would do it all over again. 

Thanks for the interest Joe:thumbsup: I can't get enough of this old Arn- next one is the TS ,cabinet:thumbsup: 
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*VFD/Spike filter came yesterday,,,,,*

So ,,,,,
Guess what I did tonight,,,,,yep,,,,,,. I "started" the removal of all the old sparky toys on her, then I had to redo some the wiring into the housing,, looked dryrotted all to hell,,,which leads me into somthing else.
I got all the "dirty" paper (us OWWM'ers call it that- "history specs" ) on her form Mike J- (thanks Mike:thumbsup 
I got the information from Ron Smith, form Maok tools Inc. Appearently he is the "Moak specialist" and had all the drty paper on moat of the equipment out there,, same situation with Rich Finke form Eagle Machinery,, Olivers:thumbsup: anyways,, The 'MOak 32" Specail" band saw was made in 1942 and there were only 20 of these made,,. 
anyways,,
I got as far as the getting the wiring from the 3hp/3ph Master Moter to the spike filter and then to the VFD - (not hooked up yet), and that was enough- tomarrow I will get her done- and up and running,, hopefully,,:laughing:. 

I still have a lot to do, but it will get done:thumbsup:
Brian

Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,*

pics,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,*

Pics,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*and that it,,*

up to now,, 
more updated Friday- have a great night guys:thumbsup:
Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian,
Looks like you've been busy!:thumbsup:

Do you have a way to keep the gold box ( near motor) connections enclosed? Maybe a big junction box could be used, & put the gold box within? Then you could use flex conduit into it, & out, enclosing all wires, connections.
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Hey Joe,,*

all the electrical is finished,, fired her up today:clap::thumbsup:-- ran like a champ, had her running for 1/2 hr, motor was at room temp, not even warm and I cut some wood 6" scrap beam, oak- cuts like butter,,,,just in awe of this machine:thumbsup:

Yea,
I have an enclosure that I still have to fabricate out of steel- to seal it all up,, I put the rubber nipples on the spike filter as well. The SF and those wires are going to be enclosed- I have to do the same on the VFD,,,,. I wanted the vfd to the left and the controller accessible,, I may do away with the controller all together and just use the remote connection terminals,, the on/off - well see. I like being able to use the keypad controller,,what do you think about that?????

I want to get a longer zip cord and run the controller near were you work..,, well see,, so much going on write now,, work,my dad- doing better, a lot better- should be home in 1-2 weeks when he is done at rehab- he's been through a lot. My work load, I took a week off to get things tidied up around here, I still have the DC system to re-do- never ends,,,,,,, but thank god- I like being busy and productive:thumbsup: 

Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Small OC problem,,,,,Lower wheel/drive shaft*

I was going through the saw because I noticed that there was an out of balance feeling and my carter guide assembly was bobbing slightly. So i gaged the wheel,, sure enough , it was out of center,by 12,000ths of an inch. You may not think that is a lot , but when that is transfered to the outside of the spoke wheel, it's unacceptable. the wheel is running true ,side to side, but it was definitely out of center.

So I started to rip her apart, took of the blade, unscrewed the hex lock fasteners, then mounted the wheel puller on the lower spokes, cranked her in , came off a little to easy,,IMO,and then I found out why when it fell on the floor. I found 2 metal shims, 1 mutilated key-way, and a shaft with 2 key-way slots,,one of which was filled in with a metal composite. shaft was off dimensionally by slightly over 12,000ths of an inch in the end- which explains the shims. 

I headed over to O'Connell machinery with the lower wheel and the armature to see Tim about having these machined,, Was going to go to Frederich's Machinery, but he said he is to busy now and it would probably be a while before I see the parts again,,, Anyways,, 
O'Connell Machinery is going to bore the spoke hub to accept a solid brass sleeve, then key-way the slot with the brass sleeve in to make sure it is a snug fit. Then they are going to machine the armature shaft and re-do the key-way slot. 
I always expect problems in the beginning when I get this type of equipment,, plus the fact that I am anal retentive about my machinery so I was told by Tim that it will be better than brand new, that I am sure of:thumbsup: 
everything else is in excellent condition, so when I get the parts back and installed, it's off to touch her paint job up and chrome up some of the control wheels/handle.

Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Parts are machined a ready to go!*

He wasn't kidding when he said well "get write on it"" . I will have the updates on the install. :thumbsup: Hopefully everything will go in smoothly:blink:

B


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Wish I had this machinery in my shop,,*

little to big,,:thumbup::laughing:.

They turned the wheel on the Bullard VLT (vertical Turret Lathe) to machine the center bore, when it was completed they took the steel sleeve bushing, over sized by 1000ths of an inch, froze it in liquid nitrogen, took it out-quickly and then went back over to the Bullard and "press fit" the sleeve into the bore using 4000lbs of hydraulic pressure from the vertical carriage press, the bit is mounted on the rotary bit head. 

Then went in again , back to the carbide bit to bore the size out for the mate with the machined arbor shaft machined oversize of 1000ths of an inch. then key-wayed into the new steel sleeve bushing , then a "shaft lock" hex bolt was tapped into the hub going through the key-way- NOT THE SHAFT, - Thanks Bobby from OWWM ! - fortunately Bill , (the turret lathe operator) told me that's what he intended to do. These guys are amazing,,seriously ,, just amazing guys:thumbsup: Anyways he threaded 2 1/4" hex lock bolts were tapped into the face of the hub were the sleeve and the hub join-this was to keep the sleeve from moving in any direction,, but he felt that the pressure that was used to press the sleeve in would be more than adequate.
The shaft was machined on the Kingston - that shaft was a mess,, the original key-way was in really bad shape (picture) , so that channel was out , the 2nd key-way was fair, so they used that channel to create the new key-way- 5000ths of an inch with a round end slot, which is far better than the squared, more work, but- better results:thumbsup: 

And then the bearings were frozen and installed on either end of the armature,,,reinstalled the rubber,, waited 1 day and the rest is self explanatory,,she fired write up:thumbsup: dead OC and absolutely no wobble, none -"0" ,,,,She runs like swiss watch,, I could not get over how smooth and balanced it was,,, just a great job guys:thumbsup:

*O'Connell Machinery *Tim,,,, Thanks , Thanks for doing it write:thumbsup: 

and of course,, none of this is any fun up to now,, having to listen to me rant on,,, sorry , I can't help it,, so here come the pictures And what good would that saw be to me if it could not do what I ask of it,,, I had to do it ,,,,cherry tree from Amherst NY -5yrs old,,,11" diameter ,, cut like butter:thumbsup:

These were the milling machines used for the MOAK., The Bullard VTR and the KINGSTON.

Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*more ,,,*

pics,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*more,*

Pics,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,*

Pics,,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*More,,*

Pics,,,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*And the proof,,,*

I am so glad I got this resolved ,,,:thumbsup:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> The shaft was machined on the Kingston - that shaft was a mess,, the original key-way was in really bad shape (picture) , so that channel was out , the 2nd key-way was fair, so they used that channel to create the new key-way- 5000ths of an inch with a round end slot, which is far better than the squared, more work, but- better results:thumbsup:


Would have been nice if they filled them in with weld and then cut a whole new keyway. But what they did will likely serve for longer than you'll be using the machine. :thumbsup:

I spent a few years doing that kind of work in one of my previous lives.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Tin,,*

Tin, 
I talked with several Machinists about this, especially Wally, but they all said that small void will not be an issue:thumbsup:- the man is 64 years old and has been doing this since 1969:thumbsup: Even Bobby from OWWM,, exact words- "not an issue" . They all knew the circumstances and not one of them brought up filling the dead key-way, just me
If I wanted it bad enough,, they could have machined a new shaft,but do you know what that would set me back ,some serious $$$$$$$$$, it would be more than what I paid for the MOAK ,,almost . So I trust these guys, if they can do work for NASA,, they can work on anything I got :thumbsup:
Brian


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Brian, that's basically what I was saying--not an issue. It might be if you had the machine in heavy production and wanted your great grandson to grow old and gray using it.

But I claim seniority. I was doing that stuff in '66. :laughing:


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Brian,
Great lookin fix! 
I know shafts can be filled in, but I don't think the risk of damaging the armature would have been worth it. Since the new keyway isn't directly opposite the old one, there is a solid true shaft for the set screws to pull the bore against. Thats the most important thing. As long as the set screws are kept tight, you'll never have a problem with it.

Your fix reminds me a bit of what I had to do on my old Mattison lathe. The tailstock rack & pinion gears were wore out, & stripped. They use a similar set up to what you'd find in a drill press arbor, only it's for the lathe tail stock arbor. Replacement parts are custom made. Instead of going that rout, I had a machine shop cut teeth about 90 degrees around from the original teeth of the round rack gear, & did the same on the pinion, since the original was only cut on one side. I also had them cut new keyways on both parts. Total cost was about $100, & took about three days. If made from scratch it would have been at least quadruple, & probably not of the same grade. I was a happy camper! The only other thing I did was to fill in the old rack teeth with JB weld, & true it up. I have since cut somewhere in the neighborhood of 500,000 balsuters, & newels without any problems.
As always Brian, thanks fgor sharing!:thumbsup:
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Hey Joe,,,*

I was hoping that you showed up on the usual FNC here,, next time,, 
Yes,,,, you gotta love what those machinist can do-- the shaft -old key way weld filled,,,, Wally was dead against that for the same reason,, he said it would change the molecular structure of the shaft and possibly weaken it- Tin said I should have had it filled,, but from what Wally said--that was not a good idea-:no:- Tin says I should of , you said the same as Wally,,, you can go insane with all the different opinions. That is why I felt I should listen to Wally from O'Connell Machinery and just be done with it, I felt I could not go wrong.. they worked on my 1907 Oliver 20C - did a great job, so did Fredericks Machinery - they did the majority of the drive end. 
Anyways,,
I am cleaning up a lot of parts on her when I find the time,, and then it is either being touched up, or - re painted- I am leaning towards a re-paint job. I will post the updates here as I move forward. 

Thanks for your opinions, Joe & Tin:thumbup:
Brian


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Iold key way weld filled,,,, Wally was dead against that for the same reason,, he said it would change the molecular structure of the shaft and possibly weaken it- Tin said I should have had it filled,,


Wally's right and so am I. The shaft is already weakened by having an extra keyway, so leaving it vs welding is probably pretty much a tossup. Shrug.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Well, Tin,,*

If I felt safe about doing that - I would have done it your way:thumbsup:,serioulsy Tin,, I would have done it. I agree with you,,, would be good if they could have filled it in,, :thumbup:but,,it wasn't worth the risk. ,,,

I am on to putting some wheels on some of my equipment ,,, I have the Oliver's ready to go , they are going on tomorrow,, assembly ,,,(another topic):thumbup:,,,there are a few reasons I am doing this,, you,ll see,

But the Castor's are going on the Oliver and possibly the MAOK,, tomorrow,, :thumbsup:


Brian,


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