# Mortar or sand set patio?



## KennMacMoragh

oktex56 said:


> Mortar set 100%
> 
> I learned a trick. Screed off dry mortar bed, (Over concrete pad) set pavers, fill joints with dry mortar mix and lightly mist to set. Rub off with burlap. I simplified this as I am tired but if you need more detail just ask.
> 
> Sand is sand. It will move. I just don't understand the whole mentality except that it is a cheap way out...
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Steve


That's a good idea, I think if I do this I will try it that way, sounds a lot cleaner than trying to squeeze mortar in the joints.


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## KennMacMoragh

Tscarborough said:


> If your customer expects perfectly flat and level, then they need to pour the slab and have the surface wet set correctly. If they want low maintenance and some movement is not a problem, then dry laid correctly installed is better. It is all about expectations.


Good simple overview, but how is the dry laid less maintenance? Seems like more maintenance to me with weeds growing through the joints.


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## concretemasonry

Almost all of the methods could work with the methods if you are just doing a "one-off" patio with no real loads. Much depends on the type of "paver" used (clay brick, thin clay brick or interlocking concrete pavers). Forget about calling the large concrete squares since they have even lower property controls than clay pavers.

For "cutesy" patios, clay will work well, but use a lot of labor. For other applications (driveways, parking areas, streets, airport taxiways and large 20-40 acre industrial sites, small (4x8 or so), interlocking concrete pavers (dry set with no concrete or mortar) are the strongest and most economical and that is why they are the vast majority of pavers installed.


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## oktex56

concretemasonry said:


> Almost all of the methods could work with the methods if you are just doing a "one-off" patio with no real loads. Much depends on the type of "paver" used (clay brick, thin clay brick or interlocking concrete pavers). Forget about calling the large concrete squares since they have even lower property controls than clay pavers.
> 
> For "cutesy" patios clay will work well, but use a lot of labor. For other applications (driveways, parking areas, streets, airport taxiways and large 20-40 acre industrial sites, small (4x8 or so), interlocking concrete pavers (dry set with no concrete or mortar) are the strongest and most economical and that is why they are the vast majority of pavers installed.


Question:

When you mention dry set are you saying no adhesive whatsoever?

My understanding of mortar-less applications is the pavers are glued down over concrete. 

Typically clay fired pavers when they wear they wear down with the same surface color as they are not surface treated only. 

In my neck-o-the-woods this application is the most costly. 25 per ft2+!!

Just curious.

Steve:thumbup:


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## concretemasonry

The most common use of pavers (square feet annually) is dry set concrete pavers where no concrete is used under the paver. Most of the jobs are far bigger than patios and require much higher strength. There are also many different shapes and patterns.

They are laid with tight joints on a 1" clean sand setting bed over a compacted base. After setting, some fine sand is spread over the surface and vibrated with a plate vibrator to level the surface and draw sand into the joint to create additional strength. this method is adopted by various national and international association and has been used for many decades.

In commercial applications that are frequently used for roads (4" thick paver) to carry the load of the huge harbor strabble loaders on 4 steering wheels. They are also used for driveways, streets and patios.


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## CJKarl

stonecutter said:


> They might be referring to polymeric sand for the joints...I hear you can seal it.
> 
> I do mostly dry set patios and use 3/8" crushed washed stone...even for brick pavers. There are a couple that are 15 years old and flat as the day they were laid. Also, ants won't make homes in gravel, only in the joints, dust or sand. So I use black silica sand for brick work and they don't seem to like that either
> 
> It all comes down to understanding all the pros and cons...Dom mentioned a few... but I think this topic could go several pages because IMO, there are too many factors unique to each site.
> 
> What does the customer want? What do you have experience with?



Pretty much my technique . Except I've been using polymeric sand for the last few years with good results.


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## CJKarl

concretemasonry said:


> The most common use of pavers (square feet annually) is dry set concrete pavers where no concrete is used under the paver. Most of the jobs are far bigger than patios and require much higher strength. There are also many different shapes and patterns.
> 
> They are laid with tight joints on a 1" clean sand setting bed over a compacted base. After setting, some fine sand is spread over the surface and vibrated with a plate vibrator to level the surface and draw sand into the joint to create additional strength. this method is adopted by various national and international association and has been used for many decades.
> 
> In commercial applications that are frequently used for roads (4" thick paver) to carry the load of the huge harbor strabble loaders on 4 steering wheels. They are also used for driveways, streets and patios.




Makes me think of this video. Techo Blocs 400,000 sq permeable paving storage yard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71drF5dMpAI&list=PL66BF592A7263FC65&feature=plcp


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## KEPC

CJKarl said:


> Makes me think of this video. Techo Blocs 400,000 sq permeable paving storage yard.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71drF5dMpAI&list=PL66BF592A7263FC65&feature=plcp


I was thinking about the dutch paving machines.... laying them in herringbone pattern... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnC2HCKFq2E


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## KennMacMoragh

CanCritter said:


> mortar.....sounds like they were trying to sell you sealer....sealer for sand?..never heard of it....use sand and youll be tracking sand everywhere


This is the sealer they were trying to sell me Sandlock We're still leaning towards mortar set though. But I might try it on some paver steps they want put in as well.


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