# HO cancels check for Final Payment



## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Bill Z said:


> Why does everyone want to run to court? Do you like having someone shove a 2x4 up your dark side? Read the legal threads on this forum. Run away from court, not to it! The only winners are the attorneys.
> 
> My best friend is an attorney, we play golf, eat out with the wives, work on non-profit committees, serve on boards together. But I run as far and fast from him professionally as I can. I do not want to do business with any attorney.
> 
> ...


Best advice in this post imo. :thumbsup:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

bwalley said:


> This was not a reale estate contract.
> 
> It is the contractor who was damaged here, not the homeowner.
> 
> ...


The damages he would be mitigating are his own damages. Before you start throwing your ignorance around you should read the post. 

Of course he (the contractor) has damages, that's why he wants to collect. Damages are always considered in terms of $, that's what the courts want to deal with. 

Without all the information, he can't get an accurate answer. His damages could include unjust enrichment of the owner at the contractors expense, or failure to deal in good faith (this is a law in many states). What he cannot do is sue for enforcement of a (verbal) contract because there is none. 

Lack of a contract does not mean he can't collect, it does mean that he will have more difficulty collecting.

NOW, the real issue here though is not about suing. That will be difficult and expensive (I've been there several times). The real issue is for the contractor to MITIGATE HIS DAMAGES. The definition of mitigate includes "lessen or try to lessen the seriousness or extent of". That means, in really simple words, the contractor should attempt to reach an amicable deal with the owner. Taking a small loss off the amount of the check may be the least expensive course of action for the contractor.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

thom said:


> The damages he would be mitigating are his own damages. Before you start throwing your ignorance around you should read the post.
> 
> Of course he (the contractor) has damages, that's why he wants to collect. Damages are always considered in terms of $, that's what the courts want to deal with.
> 
> ...


Here is an explanation of mitigate damages.

*MITIGATE DAMAGES - Taking action to avoid or reduce damages.

A person who claims damages as a result of an alleged wrongful act on the part of another has a duty under the law to "mitigate" those damages; that is, to take advantage of any reasonable opportunity he may have had under the circumstances to reduce or minimize the loss or damage. 

So, if a Plaintiff [within the limitations of any *[COLOR=blue! important]disability[/COLOR]* he may have sustained] fails to seek out or take advantage of a business or *[COLOR=blue! important]employment opportunity[/COLOR]* that was reasonably available to him under all the circumstances, then the amount of damages awarded may be reduced by the amount he could have reasonably realized if he had taken advantage of such opportunity.*

The contractor is the one who was damaged, one of his claims for suing the HO, is unjust enrichment, but that is not Mitigating his damages, that is trying to recover his money that is owed to him.

If someone has his windshield busted out, he would need to mitigate his damages by securing any valuables in the vehicle and protecting the vehicle from a pending rainstorm, by either moving it to a covered parking place such as a garage, or temporarily covering the broken window to keep rain from getting in.

If the contractor decides to try and work with the HO and agree's to accept less money than is owed him, he is reaching a settlement, not mitigating his damages.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

Price is fair.

You just need to set up a face to face. Heres what you bring.

Take all the documents from the first job that went well. Show him the breakdown on the labor and materials, then compare it to the second job. I would bet that you had more profit in the garage (1st project). At the end of the meeting he will let the check clear. It is critical that the wife be at the meeting or this wont work. Women will fight you behind your back and threaten their husbands to carry out their illogical demands,but their weakness is hearing and then understanding the logical facts. They are dark fighters. It will shut them down like a motor with no oil in it.

BTW back in the day I operated my business under my personal name. Anytime I received a check I would go to their bank and get the cash. Sometimes 10,000 or more! When I changed to my company name it never occured to me that I would no longer be able do that. Sometimes I regret it because of the remorse factor. The buyers remorse grows like mold sometimes during the job. Imagine if you made a hasty decision to buy a new Rolls Royce and they built it in your garage and it took them 5 weeks to do it. You just want out of it as cheap as possible. Stop the bleeding. I can sense it coming on the last couple of days. Thats why I go overboard iwth communications. The main reason is that it gives me a chance to gauge their emotional state of mind.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Well Bwally, I guess you really can't read. I've typed it twice, I'll type it again. 

The contractor should try to mitigate his damages by working out an amicable agreement with the homeowner. 

Yes the contractor has been damaged, he's out the last payment. I specifically suggested (twice) that he would be better off not suing. Never did I suggest he should sue to mitigate damages, that's in your head, not mine. 

Sure "mitigate damages" is a term with legal meanings, it's also a term with real life dictionary meanings. Not everything is about spending time in a courtroom (though I've had more than my share of that). Even when winning in court, the contractor generally loses. At best he gets partial compensation for legal costs and he gets zero, zip, nada, for the hundreds of hours he puts in preparing the case and sitting in the courtroom Then there's all the antacid costs, they aren't reimbursed either.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks for the responses,
I know that litigation is not the route to go.I consulted a layer a couple of years ago in a similar situation where the HO refused to pay for extra's that were requested by them.
I settled for half the difference between my costs and what the HO's was willing to spend.
Compromise is less costly remedy and it made good business sense.

On this mater I'm waiting for the HO to return my phone call so we can discuss the agreement we had three weeks before the job was finished.At that point he received a hard copy of the expenditures to date and an estimate for the final costs.He agreed to the final cost. 
After the three weeks ,and while looking over the final material costs,I realized that I billed him for some of the garage material and lowered my final bill to account for the difference.
So the final bill was actually lower that what he was expecting.
That's what really gets me,What happened in 30 minuted since he paid me to make him change his mind.
My only guess is his wife may have an issue with the final cost,and he wasn't keeping her posted of how much he was spending.

I may have to compromise some cash.I have a number in mind because the HO kept us going with 4 months of work.

What bothers me the most how he will relate his experiences with us to other potential customers,since all my work comes from word of mouth.Even if I reduce his final bill,I feel there's no chance for damage control here and can only hope he doesn't cost me more in the future.

Thanks again guys,
I will posts any relevant updates.
John


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## dubz (Sep 8, 2008)

oldfrt said:


> Thanks for the responses,
> I know that litigation is not the route to go.I consulted a layer a couple of years ago in a similar situation where the HO refused to pay for extra's that were requested by them.
> I settled for half the difference between my costs and what the HO's was willing to spend.
> Compromise is less costly remedy and it made good business sense.
> ...


Good luck John. 

Where are you in northwest CT? I'm out of Warren.


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## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

This is just a guess. But this is how it all went down.

Wife- So how much is it?
husband- 40 thousand dollars.
(first mistake, both were not together when you made the deal
and no contract for her to look at.)

Ofcourse husband forgets to mention the "up or down" part.
Heck, hes trying to forget it as every day passes.
also fails to mention to her that there will be other things they need to pay for after you are done.


Wife- 40 thousand dollars? thats a lot of money. can we afford that?
I dont know about this.
husband- i like him. he did a good job on the garage.

Then delays happen and then they both think you should be there when you were not.

husband talks to freinds. More than one tell him that they can build a whole house for 40 thousand.

Then when it comes time to pay.
He thinks that the MOST you should get is 40k.


Husband talks with wife and talk about the other trades that need to be done(and their pricing) and are pissed that it wasnt included in the 40 thousand. They have a big ol fight over it.

Then he and she realize its 42k
and its the straw that broke the camels back.

When you got that call, 
You should have immediately turned around and talked to them in person.
and forget what ever plans you had in mind.
No way should you have let the sun come back up before you dealt with it. Every hour that goes by, they are more and more comfortable with their decision.


They havent returned your call. YOu need to camp out at their house and talk to them both. Dont let another single day go by. You can't settle this over the phone. Tell them how important they are to you and your company. Tell them that you need them as a good reference and that you want to make them happy. You tell them that you are not happy untill they are happy.

They are thinking right away that they only want to pay 40k period.
Thats whats up.

Just my theory.


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

I've been down this road before too, I did a verbal job and lost eight grand. The lady gave me a draw upfront that bounced and by the time I found out we had completed the job. I would've won in court but she immediately filed bankruptcy and I got zero. This was in Kentucky. 

Now to your situation, I've got a bad feeling that this guy's busted and he's about to go belly up. If he goes belly up like that lady did on me, you're screwed. The check can be used against him because it's a contract in itself. But if he's busted like it sounds, this could be real bad. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck!


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## rsss396375 (Aug 11, 2008)

Contract or no, you will have to go to court to seek a judgment and then attach his wages, or some other form of garnishment. Typically, when you cancel a check at your bank, they will ask you the reason for the canellation, ie, stollen, lost, etc. They MAY not honor his request when he tells them, " I am trying to screw my contractor, so don't pay him." Then again, it is his right to cancel.

You have a good case in court (without a contract) to show that there was a meeting of the minds between you and him and work has been completed for a specified amount. You may need a lawyer to argue the finer points of the law. Is this small claims?

Did you release all material pre-liens and pay off the suppliers? You've got some nice wood there and I am sure it costs some $. I try to leave a balance due at the lumber store on big jobs for just that reason, but sometimes it doesn't always work out.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

rsss396375 said:


> Did you release all material pre-liens and pay off the suppliers? You've got some nice wood there and I am sure it costs some $. I try to leave a balance due at the lumber store on big jobs for just that reason, but sometimes it doesn't always work out.


 
You want to screw the lumberyard because you don't know how to get a contract and conduct business properly? I would use the threat that the lumber co. is going to lien, but I would pay them. I pay them before the electric bill.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Dorman Painting said:


> I've been down this road before too, I did a verbal job and lost eight grand. The lady gave me a draw upfront that bounced and by the time I found out we had completed the job. I would've won in court but she immediately filed bankruptcy and I got zero. This was in Kentucky.
> 
> Now to your situation, I've got a bad feeling that this guy's busted and he's about to go belly up. If he goes belly up like that lady did on me, you're screwed. The check can be used against him because it's a contract in itself. But if he's busted like it sounds, this could be real bad. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck!


That would be good news. If he wrote a check with no fund to cover it, it would be a crime. Bring that into court and you've already won your case. Tough thing is getting blood out of a stone. You've won but the money is non existant. But it is due to you and you will get it eventually. Better than no chance at all.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

roof-lover said:


> They havent returned your call. *YOu need to camp out at their house and talk to them both.* Dont let another single day go by. You can't settle this over the phone. Tell them how important they are to you and your company. Tell them that you need them as a good reference and that you want to make them happy. You tell them that you are not happy untill they are happy.
> 
> They are thinking right away that they only want to pay 40k period.
> Thats whats up.
> ...


Stalking a client (which is what he will be accused of) is not going to be a good way to deal with the situation.

He needs to start the process of placing a lien on the property.


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## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

bwalley said:


> Stalking a client (which is what he will be accused of) is not going to be a good way to deal with the situation.


Did you think i was really talking about setting up a tent?
I am talking about being friendly and respectful.
I am talking about going to see them after they get home from work.

Stalking?? they owe him a lot of money.
He was expected to show up timely and act professional.
They are expected to do the same.
If they ignore his calls or his attempts to see/talk to them
than that looks very bad on their part if it ever goes to court.





> He needs to start the process of placing a lien on the property


I disagree for the moment. once that happens, it can be a long way away until he gets his money and it will be much less than the figure owed.

Please reread Bill Z post. please.

Did not the homeowner originally say that he wanted to talk?
Your just going to ignore that and file a lein???

Talk to the homeowner and accept the lower amount agreed too now and get your money NOW. Both Husband and wife Need to be present.

File a lein only as soon as you realize that the homeowner is being completely uncooperative.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

roof-lover,

The reason to start the lien process is, the HO may drag out negotiations long enough to allow the window of opportunity to file a lien to pass.

Sending out the appropriate notices will show the HO that he is serious about getting paid and the contractor is just following the law.

The HO may know the lien laws and using the line "we want to work with you" may be an attempt to run out the clock.

I agree talking to the HO is the best course of action, because the only people who win in a lawsuit are the Attorney's.


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## jaros bros. (Jan 20, 2009)

Bill early. Bill often. The last payment for the job shouldn't be so big that it's going to hurt you. Every Friday I request payment. Initially, clients seem surprised by this, but after the first couple of Fridays, they have their checkbooks ready. It sounds like you have left a lot of money until the end. Try to stay away from financing someone else's construction project. They are taking the risk, not you.

Josh Jaros


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

jaros bros. said:


> *Bill early. Bill often. The last payment for the job shouldn't be so big that it's going to hurt you.* Every Friday I request payment. Initially, clients seem surprised by this, but after the first couple of Fridays, they have their checkbooks ready. It sounds like you have left a lot of money until the end. *Try to stay away from financing someone else's construction project*. They are taking the risk, not you.
> 
> Josh Jaros


Josh,

You must have been to the same school of construction I went to.

After getting burned on the last draw a few times, I leave very little money owing by the time I am done.

I have also told people who don't like putting money down that I am a contractor, not a bank.

For some reason people think they should pay upon completion and their 100% satisfaction.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I never leave more than 5% at the end. I only do smaller jobs in the $500-$30,000 range. If they don't like the payment schedule, I don't need their money.


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## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

bwalley said:


> roof-lover,
> 
> The reason to start the lien process is, the HO may drag out negotiations long enough to allow the window of opportunity to file a lien to pass.
> 
> ...


I mostly agree with that. 

But I definitely would not want them to receive a certified notice to owner before i even had a chance to talk to them respectfully.
Thats all i'm trying to say.

Here in florida i think it is 45 days .
After a few days, i would realize that the homeowner is being uncooperative. 

Once you send it, the fight is on. 
remember the beligerant message the HO left on his phone?
Just think how belligerant they are going to become after they get that certified letter. It will be insane. 
You think that they are going to be friendly and ready to talk and refer him to other people?


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

roof-lover said:


> I mostly agree with that.
> 
> But I definitely would not want them to receive a certified notice to owner before i even had a chance to talk to them respectfully.
> Thats all i'm trying to say.
> ...


In Florida you are not required to send a NTO when you have a direct contract with the client, many contractors still send them out, but they have to go out within 45 days of the start of the job.

The contractor or sub contractor has 90 days of last furnishing of work to file the lein.

Once the lien is filed, you have to notify the client within 10 days.


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## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

bwalley said:


> In Florida you are not required to send a NTO when you have a direct contract with the client, many contractors still send them out, but they have to go out within 45 days of the start of the job.
> 
> The contractor or sub contractor has 90 days of last furnishing of work to file the lein.
> 
> Once the lien is filed, you have to notify the client within 10 days.


I believe in florida that a notice to owner followed with a notice to lein is to be filed within 45 days following completion.

Us talking about this particular in florida doesn't help this person.
The point remains that he does have time.
He does need to research his amount of time if he doesn't already know.
I think he already knows.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

roof-lover said:


> I believe in florida that a notice to owner followed with a notice to lein is to be filed within 45 days following completion.
> 
> Us talking about this particular in florida doesn't help this person.
> The point remains that he does have time.
> ...


Per Florida Statute 713

The Notice To Owner must go out within 45 days of 1st furnishing of materials or labor.

The Lien must be recorded within 90 days of last furnishing.

If you are a Licensed Florida Contractor you should be aware of this.

BTW Unlicensed contractors have NO lien rights in Florida and any contract they enter into can not be enforced.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

So does this mean if your job takes 46 days you cannot file?


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

As he was finishing his phone call to you, I would have been heading to his bank to certify the cheque.
I've had occasion to do that before. Most banks still want a signature for the stop payment, so you probably could have beaten him there.


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## maceycon (Nov 13, 2008)

Years ago. I had a sub do a concrete basement floor for me. He had worked for me in the past. I was on another job when he finished. He came over looking for a check. Like an idiot I paid him without looking at the finished job because I trusted him and I was in the middle of something. The next day I went to the job and the floor was a mess. I couldn't get in touch with him so I put a stop payment on the check.

We went to court and the judge said if you wrote the check you must have been happy with the work.
I had pictures showing an 1 1/2" dips in the floor, witnesses and the works. I lost. I had to hire someone else to come in and tear up the floor and do it over. I wouldn't think buyers remorse is going to be a good defense if you bring him to court.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

Leo G said:


> So does this mean if your job takes 46 days you cannot file?


The dates can overlap.

meaning a sub files the NTO within the 45 days of first furnishing and a lien is filed within 90 days of last furnishing.

Say I do a job and a sub fTimely iles the NTO, does not get paid, he can file the Lien the next day, this can all take place within a very short period of time.

After the 45 days, the sub can not file the NTO, in this case they lost their lien rights, they do still have other remedies, just not lien rights.

After 90 days, the lien can not be filed, but you do not have to wait 90 days, again if you wait after 90 days, you lost your lien rights but still have other remedies.


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## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

bwalley said:


> Per Florida Statute 713
> 
> The Notice To Owner must go out within 45 days of 1st furnishing of materials or labor.
> 
> ...


I am a state certified Roofing contractor.

Oh, and i have filed and enforced and got the money on more than one occasion when i have NOT been a state certified roofing contractor.

You're kind of acting like an *******.
excuse me for disagreeing with your assertion that he should first thing
file a lein right away without trying to work it out with the homeowner first. Yeah, thats great advice. Great service!

They'll really take him serious and respect him and pay him right away.
The goal is a happy customer and get the money.

YOU definitely would not be acheiving that.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

roof-lover said:


> I am a state certified Roofing contractor.
> 
> Oh, and i have filed and enforced and got the money on more than one occasion when i have NOT been a state certified roofing contractor.
> 
> ...


You are quoting wrong information about Florida lien laws, I corrected you so that other Florida contractors don't follow your wrong information.

Just because you have filed liens, does not mean they were done properly and anyone who knows lienlaws could challenge it, if you file an improper lien, you can be held liable for damages.

I am well aware that this guy is not in Florida.
I told the guy to start the procedure of filing liens so he does not allow the window of time to close on him.

If you are an unlicensed contractor you have no lien rights, you may have filed one and collected, but had the people been knowledgable of the Florida Lien laws, they could have had your lien thrown out and your case would have been dismissed, unlicensed contractors are also liable for triple damages and the court would not recognize an unlicensed contractor as an expert witness.

I have 2 certified contractors licenses and am working on my 3rd, I know Florida lien law very well, I will look up and post the part about unlicensed contractors having no lien rights for you.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

Unlicensed Contractors have NO lien rights, per Florida Statute.


Notwithstanding any other provision of this part, no lien shall exist in favor of any contractor, subcontractor, or sub-subcontractor who is unlicensed as provided in s. 489.128 or s. 489.532.


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## mikec (Jan 2, 2007)

Not sure about other states, or what would happen in court, but... The Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection is very clear about contractors, their contracts, and what needs to be in them. This from the DCP book:

Home Improvement Contract
Requirements in Connecticut
The days of the “gentleman’s handshake” are gone.
The law demands written contracts and that means
more than a quick estimate and your signature.
Here’s what Connecticut law requires of a home
improvement contract:
• It must be in writing, including all changes and modifications.
• It must include your Contractor Registration (HIC) number.
• It must include four dates: the date the contract is signed, the date the
work will begin, the date by which the work will be completed, and the
date by which the homeowner may cancel the transaction.
• It must include a Notice of the Customer’s Right to Cancel within three
business days after signing the contract. The Notice must be attached to
and made part of the contract, and must be in duplicate. See Appendix B
for an example.
• The notice contained in the contract must be near the customer’s
signature and in substantially the following form:
“You the buyer may cancel this transaction at any time prior to
midnight on the third business day after the date of this
transaction. See the attached notice of cancellation for an
explanation of this right.”
NOTE: Saturday is a legal business day in Connecticut.
• Both you and your customer must sign and date the contract.
• You must give your customer a completed copy of the contract to keep.
Why must it be in writing and dated?
For your own protection, be sure the contract includes everything you will
and will not perform. For example, who is responsible for cleaning up debris
left in the yard from the construction work? If you are remodeling a kitchen,
is the cost of the appliances included in the contract price?
Take the time to explain it all to your customer — then write it all out. A
large percentage of consumer complaints stems from nonspecific contracts,
which lead to disagreements.
Be a troubleshooter. Think ahead to what you’ll need to do (or hire someone
else to do) if you find a supporting wall has almost rotted away, or that the
seasoned oak the customer requested is in short supply, or you hit a rock
ledge. Then, explain your back-up plans in writing.
-4-
If the contract needs to be changed in any way after the original signing, be
sure you and your customer both sign for all change orders, and that all
changes include additional charges and changes to the completion date, if any.
Put everything in writing!
While the law requires that all change orders be in writing, contractors often
run into situations where authorization from homeowners for changes must be
obtained while the contractor is on the job, but the customer is at work or
elsewhere. This contingency should be provided for in the original contract so
that the homeowner is fully informed of the potential for these situations.
Follow up any such verbal authorizations with signed change orders as soon as
possible to comply with the law.
Remember to always include these four key dates!
As noted earlier, the law requires four dates to be included
in the home improvement contract, as follows:
1) Transaction Date
The transaction date, i.e., the date on which the
contractor and consumer sign the contract, must be
noted on the contract itself as well as on both copies
of the “notice of cancellation” form attached to the
contract.
2) Start Date
The contract must include the start date for the project. Many consumer
complaints arise from the contractor’s failure to show up on time. To avoid
misunderstandings about the start date, the contractor should explain to the
homeowner that work on the project may include tasks such as applying for
permits, ordering materials (that may have to be returned and reordered if
they arrive damaged), and scheduling subcontractors — prior to actually
appearing at the job site.
If more than thirty days go by from the start date in the contract and you have
not performed a substantial amount of work, the customer can request a
refund of his or her money. Further, if you fail to return the client’s money
within ten days of his or her request, you are subject to criminal action. The
law is silent as to the meaning of substantial amount of the contracted work.
It is, therefore, prudent to plan your projects carefully and to include
alternative plans of action, should problems arise that are beyond your
control.
-5-
3) Completion Date
The contract must include a completion date for the project. Many consumer
complaints arise from the contractor’s failure to finish work on time or to stick
with a job. Maintaining good communication with a customer will help avoid
many complaints.
Many contractors have overlapping jobs. While the framing is going up on one
customer’s addition, you may be completing the finish work on another’s
kitchen. If you run into trouble with the framing, the finish work just isn’t
going to get completed. In the meantime, customers get angry because they
don’t know what is going on!
4) Notice of Cancellation
Both copies of the “notice of cancellation” should include the date by which
the homeowner may cancel the transaction (i.e., no later than midnight of the
third business day after the date of the transaction). Saturday is a business day
in Connecticut.
Finally, the contract must be entered into by a registered contractor or
salesperson, and contain the name and address of the contractor. Both “notice
of cancellation” forms must also contain the contractor’s (i.e., seller’s) name
and address.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

Interesting. My current customer is a transplant from Conneticut. He asked me if I was required to provide him with a contract. I said no but I don't work without one. You don't mention what the punishment is if you get caught working without one. it may be one of those"uninforced laws" like leaving your car running in the driveway with your keys in it.

BTW My customer also told me that in Conneticut you have to have a 36" deep footing on a detached building but no rebar is required in the footing. Surely you guys up there are putting rebar in your footings aren't you?


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

We are referred to as "Contractors". 

But so few believe in excercising the concept.....


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## mikec (Jan 2, 2007)

I've seen footings with no rebar(my guy puts it in).
I don't know what the punishment is, but the state does a sting every year, and nets some unregistered guys, and also gets some guys for inproper contracts, and yes these guys are arrested. I know of a guy who did 30 days for no reg, inproper contract,and no permit. His client had a friend who was a state trooper. The guy is a hack, and wasn't showing up after taking a big deposit, and doing next to nothing on the job.
I think its good the state does this, but the state also recomends to HO's to give no deposits,wich is BS. They tell the HO to pay upon completetion.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

That's too bad, but you could do what I do when a H/O doesn't want to pay up front. I write it up with 5 or 6 payments due over the 3 week period. The first payment is large and due after I pull and attach the permit. Then I stay "ahead" of them with less than 5% on the end. I don't even mind doing it this way because you have five or 6 oppurtunities to ask their checkbook if it is happy with the work instead of at the end.


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## mikec (Jan 2, 2007)

Yes, I do pretty much the same thing. The no down payment is not the law, just recommended. I've never had a client ***** about my payement schedule.


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## Stevelsc8721 (Feb 21, 2008)

*Leins*

My head hurts from all the comments, my first input would be to lien the house and advise him that his credit will be greatly affected by a lien on it. I would have cashed the check anyway and waited for it to clear or bounce. If it does protest it at the bank.

If there is communication still and it is a small amount ask him with his wife there ,what they think is a fair balance due for the final phase of services performed? Let them speak first and bite your tongue not to speak up until they are done. Sometimes its a stupid thing like a light or paint or something stupid. If it is state if I do that for you then we agree on the final balance of ? is Ok!

Never do anything without an agreement. I have for years recorded conversations with clients and tell them I'm doing it so I don't forget anything that was discussed. I also record and take pictures of any big projects we perform. 

I was back in the day sued for $ 1,800,000.00 for constructing a job not to the blueprint that we designed for the home owner. In court on tape the homeowner stated that this is the new line my wife and I drew for the redesigning of the proposed wall among-est other changes. This trial lasted 18 days and what saved my ass was pictures, video, signed contract etc. 

The insurance company still paid them monies because they wanted to end the trail that was still ongoing.

Always get it in writing or record conversations so you don't miss anything

Good luck


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

Stevelsc8721 said:


> My head hurts from all the comments, my first input would be to lien the house and advise him that his credit will be greatly affected by a lien on it. I would have cashed the check anyway and waited for it to clear or bounce. If it does protest it at the bank.
> 
> If there is communication still and it is a small amount ask him with his wife there ,what they think is a fair balance due for the final phase of services performed? Let them speak first and bite your tongue not to speak up until they are done. Sometimes its a stupid thing like a light or paint or something stupid. If it is state if I do that for you then we agree on the final balance of ? is Ok!
> 
> ...


What about emails? Are they admissable in court. Most of my changes come via emails.


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## dubz (Sep 8, 2008)

Brock said:


> Interesting. My current customer is a transplant from Conneticut. He asked me if I was required to provide him with a contract. I said no but I don't work without one. You don't mention what the punishment is if you get caught working without one. it may be one of those"uninforced laws" like leaving your car running in the driveway with your keys in it.
> 
> BTW My customer also told me that in Conneticut you have to have a 36" deep footing on a detached building but no rebar is required in the footing. Surely you guys up there are putting rebar in your footings aren't you?


There are a lot of GC's I know that don't work with a contract in the northeast corner. My cabinet guy who has 4 full time employees told me today he's never used one. They don't actively look for contractors working without a contract, there is just no recourse if the homeowner decides he doesn't feel like paying.

My local lumber yard did a dinner and had a lawyer come in to go over the contract laws about 10 years ago. For about a grand I think it was, you could make an appointment where he explained it in more detail and gave you a floppy disk of 4-5 different style contracts and change orders which i did. I don't think I've used them more than a couple times but with all the time on my hands lately I've been learning computer stuff and plan to get that type of thing squared away. 

Frost line is 42" here and we follow the national building code which doesn't say you need to put bar in a footing, but most plans call for it.


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## rsss396375 (Aug 11, 2008)

Brock said:


> You want to screw the lumberyard because you don't know how to get a contract and conduct business properly? I would use the threat that the lumber co. is going to lien, but I would pay them. I pay them before the electric bill.


The preliminary lien process has nothing to do with screwing the lumber yard. In CA, we receive pre-lien notices and the HO is also sent a certified letter. If they don't pay, or you don't pay, then the lumber company may lien *their* property, since their materials are attached to the improvment of that property. If you want to pay the lumber yard, thats up to you, but you loose that additional leverage. 
You sound like a butt head who pops off too much.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

rsss396375 said:


> You sound like a butt head who pops off too much.


It's because I'm your Daddy.


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