# Wheres The Money At?



## abelc (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm not a big time contractor, but I do great work, have a great crew, and I am 
a dependable guy. Im tired of making descent money when I know my work is worth a lot more.I work with my crew every day.Where can I go to make some REAL money? Insurance work? Re-building in New Orleans? I just dont have the contacts, and every big company I do work for keeps it that way so I'll stay with them.Kentucky is overrun with half-a ed siding an window guys who will cut your throat on a $3000 job. Its ridiculous. We dont mind traveling for REAL money, commercial or whatever. Quality just doesnt seem to matter these days like it did 7 or 8 years ago. I,m doing a motel for a company in Hardi-plank right now, but theres another crew on the other side of the motel doing crappy work and making the same as me.Sometimes I just dont know if its worth it anymore. Do you guys got any suggestions.I'm not whining, just asking.:thumbup:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

The thing with GC's are they want to pay enough to keep you semi happy and once your in they think you shouldn't pursue other venture's. Hell when I talked to the state revenue they thought I had worked in NOV. for a GC because I am a specialty. LOL


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## abelc (Dec 10, 2005)

Exactly. If you say I gotta go do this job I bid, They get mad, but when the last commercial job i did (350 vinyl rplacement wdws) was done I didnt here from them for 3 months.I believe this is the worst state to be a contractor in!Every big job Ive been on with a GC, They hire and fire 2 or 3 crews that drive up with a tool belt and one ladder bungeed to their car roof.:biggrin: And I gotta go back and fix their screw ups and fight with the GC over what its worth.One good steady commercial GC could keep me happy, but thats like peein in the wind!


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Yeah I had talked to one GC about doing some houses t-111 crappers for like 3.50 sqf.Till I get my licensing in order I have remod work in the mean time buy a ins. cert for them and now the bastards tell me they want a sub that will work for them in defiantly not off and on.
Say what I am a businessman not a ***** what ever it cost me a hundred get for a ins cert for their outfit. Now I have a lead on some $7 sqf stuff for just labor lol.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

abelc, It's not so much as to where you can go as proving what you can do and why it is worth more money. Look for niche markets. 

I was doing your basic remods, moving up, when I discovered that good custom cabinet makers were not in this area. I filled in the gap and it is the most successful aspect of all my businesses. Window treatments (blinds, shades, verticals, etc.), another spinoff, is my most profitable.

Money is all around you, you just have to figure out how to get it from their acct. to yours.


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## rikanit (Nov 28, 2005)

My dad started and built our business by doing seeding work for GC's. We all made a living but never made the type of money our quality and reputation deserved. All the GC's bitched when we raised the price a little and acted like we were their employees and not true "business men". 

First thing I done when I bought him out 10 years ago was drop all the GC's, switched to design/install and irrigation and concentrated on residential work only. This way we are able to play to our strengths of quality and experience and our clients don't mind paying extra for that.

As Teetorbilt said, the money is out there. Identify what it is that sets you apart from your competition and play it up from there.


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## Jeremy England (Jan 17, 2005)

I think the niche market idea is a good one but if you think you must move, I would choose central and south florida. Residential construction is booming and there are not enough tradesmen. I can foresee new orleans being a good market in the future but I wouldn't risk my health and welfare on a whim.


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## abelc (Dec 10, 2005)

*Impossible*

What if thats impossible Teetor? No kidding, every niche that I could think of is covered by 10 or 15 throatcutters. To make matters worse we had a big hailstorm in 02 and it drained the work. A lot of stormchasers came in and got about 50% of the work. I dont blame them at all, but it left us local guys with not many opportunities two years later. Folks around here arent worried about quality, Its all about what it costs! Low end guys are doing 3 way cornice around here for 4.00 and that includes materials! Siding 165.00, Gutter 3.50,
How can you compete? Homeowners dont know what to look for like we do, and I dont like to beat up other guys work after its done, whats the point? I would rather sit home and watch Oprah than work my a  off all week for $400. I can do that in a nice warm factory and leave it there when I go home. I've been driving 150 miles a day round trip for a year for pretty good money, but here it is 23 degree highs and I can't afford to take 1 day off. I don,t mean to be a whiner, but I would be willing to go to timbuck two for 3 months to make some real money. Ive been thinking of niches for a year and still nothing. I wont under any circumstances do something I dont Know about for money. Its not fair to the homeowner. You can ask a vinyl guy around here to build an addition and theyll do it and its crap. I just dont know man. Thanks for the advice, Its nice to talk to someone who knows what its like you guys.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

abelc said:


> ...To make matters worse we had a big hailstorm in 02 and it drained the work. A lot of stormchasers came in and got about 50% of the work. I dont blame them at all, but it left us local guys with not many opportunities two years later.


Um, no.

It didn't leave the local guys with less opportunities. The same opportunity existed for you as existed for the carpetbaggers. You simply never took advantage of it. 

You're complaining about factors that can be overcome by learning more about sales and marketing. You may see this as "cutthroat tactics", but you can't keep doing what you're doing. Obviously, it's not working out for you. 

I do believe that you are a whiner. Apparently the work does exist in your area. You're just not doing what you need to do to get it. Nobody wants a half-azzed job done at their house. What you need to do is explain, clearly, why X amount of dollars gets you half-shod work. Explain how to identify sub-par work, and explain why you're different. You really need to sell yourself and your end product. The matter of price will cease to be much less of an issue at that point. 

Pick up some Zig Zeiglar and Brian Tracey sales books, and prosper.


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## abelc (Dec 10, 2005)

*Must be from the city*

You must be from a bigger market, you dont understand what its like to have 250 houses built at mos in your area a year, and seriously have 30 or more guys to bid against. Would you do a 25 sq 300ft vinyl job to make $1500. I doubt it, but thats what Im doing! You shouldnt rush to judgement.Sure your wealthy guy is looking for quality, but your average Joe is looking at $1000 as 2 extra house payments. Whether you believe it or not price does matter, and when other guys set the market low, You lose a lot of options. Do you think its worth it to travel out of state to make better money? Ive havent done it since ive been married (10 yrs) and I dont really know.Thanks


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

If you only make 1500 bucks on a vinyl job, then you need to do lots more of them. If that's the profit in your area, you need to develop many more crews to do more jobs in a year. I have to think that McDonald's might make a few cents on a burger. They just do it many times a day. 

I'm not from a big market. I live in a rural county.

If you're looking to make actual money, then new construction isn't where it's at anyhow. I do very little new construction. What little I do are customs. There's a LOT LESS competition for old work. I have to think that the profit for the identical siding job is much more on an existing home than on a newly constructed home. People jump after new work, because it seems "sexier" somehow. For me and my house, we know that existing homeowners are where the real money is at.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

You need to move to area where the economy is flowing. The back woods chit no matter were your at is lower in price for services. Some times yo have to cut some throats to get a job. Hell I won't think twice about cutting a guys throat I know. I figure the reasoning mutual.

MD- you would be surprised with the people that asked me to do some work for them and said that is to high. Well let's just say they got what they paid for. Should of seen this 1500 dollar exterior paint job on spit level house. lol


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

mdshunk said:


> If you only make 1500 bucks on a vinyl job, then you need to do lots more of them. If that's the profit in your area, you need to develop many more crews to do more jobs in a year. I have to think that McDonald's might make a few cents on a burger. They just do it many times a day.



McDonalds employ's Walmart tactics. Speedy Pete you better not eat at McD's. LOL :thumbsup:


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## abelc (Dec 10, 2005)

*You hit the nail on the head*

I hate new const. Everybody thinks its better in the long run, but its not. I do a couple every 6 months for some really good guys, but you still have to stay in the ballpark with everyone else. I love remodels, but 80% of our county and a couple of surrounding counties were hit by the storm, and that doesnt leave much meat for a bunch of rottweillers:biggrin: Roofers are in the same boat around here. Ive spent most of this year subbing in a bigger city. Its Ok but Im still not makin enough to be happy, ya know what I mean?


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

abelc said:


> I hate new const. Everybody thinks its better in the long run, but its not. I do a couple every 6 months for some really good guys, but you still have to stay in the ballpark with everyone else. I love remodels, but 80% of our county and a couple of surrounding counties were hit by the storm, and that doesnt leave much meat for a bunch of rottweillers:biggrin: Roofers are in the same boat around here. Ive spent most of this year subbing in a bigger city. Its Ok but Im still not makin enough to be happy, ya know what I mean?



Once I got out of the new construct market and into the remod market I found I didn't have to work as hard to make more money. I will work both markets but not either exclusively. Which in the long run I think I will lose out inthe new market as the "I take it with no vaseline guys" motto is "they don't pay much but they always have work" :no:


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## abelc (Dec 10, 2005)

*Exactly*

Couldn't have put it better myself Justaframer:thumbsup:


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## jwatkins (Jan 5, 2006)

I just made the decision to go from only new const to some remod about six months ago. My profits doubled with in those 6 months. I still keep a hand in new const but only customs. If the home is les than 4000sq' i wont even look at it. Remod is the way to go.


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

> You need to move to area where the economy is flowing.


#1 economy - Anchorage, AK
not much competition
Tons of money in a small area.

but....

Lots of cold and snow for long amounts of time
cannot drive to other states
only a few roads as it is

How about the #2 economy then


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Florcraft said:


> #1 economy - Anchorage, AK
> not much competition
> Tons of money in a small area.
> 
> ...


Is there a large demand for cutom decks up there? But I bet the piers would SUCK to get below frostline I dont know 8' deep piers? I bet I could make some real good money up there but I would have to leave my wife...... hmmmm..... whats a one bedroom apartment go for up there flor?


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

RobertCDF said:


> Is there a large demand for cutom decks up there? But I bet the piers would SUCK to get below frostline I dont know 8' deep piers? I bet I could make some real good money up there but I would have to leave my wife...... hmmmm..... whats a one bedroom apartment go for up there flor?


It looks like the frost line is 42" in Anchorage. http://www.muni.org/iceimages/bsd/H025f.pdf

It seems that they have more seismic and wind concerns there, though.


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

> It seems that they have more seismic and wind concerns there, though.


Yea, wind and earthquakes. minor really.

No decks in winter that I know of.
Fence and deck businesses shut down.

Buy a nice cabin up here in the summer and work till you drop. Then go back home in the winter.
Don't forget to catch world class Salmon, and tour the state. It's real easy, there are only 2 roads to pick


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

42 inches? What happened to perma-frost? Must be that global warming. The republicians probably bought all the good beach front already.:sad:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Rob 53 said:


> 42 inches? What happened to perma-frost? Must be that global warming. The republicians probably bought all the good beach front already.:sad:


There wouldn't be any point in digging below the perma-frost line, would there? I think that the frost line would be more accurately described at the "freeze/thaw line". If it's permanently frozen at 42", then there's gonna be no action on the footer, right? I'm not saying, just asking. I don't know squat about that sort of thing, but sometimes I can figure stuff out. I think it would have to suck to be an excavator in Alaska. How do you backfill with frozen spoils?


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