# vinyl siding problem



## bronzgonz (Dec 4, 2012)

I have a customer where the vinyl siding unlocked itself. It is in the center of the wall where the top plate and 2nd floor ribbon come together. Im assuming it unlocked itself due to the house settling. Houses in my area were slopped together when the economy was good and I see a lot of this. Its only apart in the middle, the corners are still locked and line up around the other side. Is there a way to fix this without pulling down all the siding. To do that my corners wont match .


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

How loose is the panel when you zip it back together? I don't know , but I don't think it is because the house settled unless it cracked the foundation and the center of the house is now lower. 

Would tend to believe it is more because it was not installed correctly ,which would mean tearing the wall down and rehanging it. Which in the long run may be the best . Some of them job you can chase forever if not fixed right. 

Of course there is alway the face nail fix . But that might not go over to good.


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## stombaugh85 (Jul 23, 2012)

Push it back up and lock it in. Keep an eye on it. If the problem persists then tear it off and rehang it.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

bronzgonz said:


> I have a customer where the vinyl siding unlocked itself. It is in the center of the wall where the top plate and 2nd floor ribbon come together. Im assuming it unlocked itself due to the house settling. Houses in my area were slopped together when the economy was good and I see a lot of this. Its only apart in the middle, the corners are still locked and line up around the other side. Is there a way to fix this without pulling down all the siding. To do that my corners wont match .


 

I've seen this on new construction also and figured a couple different
reasons as to why this happens.
Either the lumber was wet,or if the walls are framed without ply,
and lifted,sometimes the studs separate a bit from the plates.
We use to sledge down the top plates after our walls got lifted.
I've seen a lot of floor joist shrink by almost 1/2" after they've
dried.Then you'll get some settling,especially if the sheathing
wasn't nailed across the band joist spread.

Best practice was always to remove and redo for us,seems once
you push one panel up the problem telegraphed up the wall.
Can't understand why the corners wouldn't match if its only apart 
in the middle?

As a side note;
A lot of the builder grade siding panels didn't have the
lock in capabilities of the better panels so this may a
factor in whether you'll be able to re-lock effectively.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Just one piece?
Can you unzip to check the nail spacing on the piece that unlocked?


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

boman47k said:


> Just one piece?
> Can you unzip to check the nail spacing on the piece that unlocked?


Yes you can lock and unlock one piece with a zipper tool. But doing that is not really going to solve the problem . If you unlock one and move the panel up so it locks right then the next one is loose and on and on. 

Could also be that the panel is nail tight and not moving , but buckling in which case you may be able to fix it by renailing it. The panels have to be able to move back and forth.


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## TRC (Oct 19, 2004)

Give the HO the option to face nail fix best you can or re-do the wall, if it's high up they might not even notice if done well,....I don't think there's any other way. The problem with re-doing the whole wall imo is that then you are on the hook for anything else that might be wrong like improper flashing, moisture barrier problems etc. Just let them know ahead of time.


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## Red Adobe (Jul 26, 2008)

I ran into 220 houses that had this issue, lots of factors but it all comes down to the installer and what temp it was when hung
I have used trim screws under the lip to screw the seem together, seems to work well since the panels grow or shrink the same
I dont face nail.....besides ruining the look it also wont allow the panel to move.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

I started pulling up tight+ in those areas when siding new homes to stop that...on going never ending story, especially with foam sheeting, OSB tends to minimize the occurrence.

I agree a screw up through the buck works.

Sounds like here is a case where you might consider uzipping the panel above, locking the loose panel in, and re-setting the nails on the sagging panel. Zip it all back up. 'Chances' are there is enough play in the locking strips to allow everything to be 'right'/within spec. Do it on a sunny warm day, of course :whistling 

That's typically how this got fixed on my jobs. Watched a couple houses that we sided for decades that had those problems. Once settled the siding behaved, well as well as vinyl behaves over long periods LOL Happened to be on main highways that were on the way to other jobs. S.E. Wisconsin so familiar with the actual conditions in your region.


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

Mostly have seen this on new construction as a result of low quality too fast installs. Only permanent solution is to take down to the loose panel and re-install.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Maybe it is just a case of a helper spacing the nails 6' apart on the one (hopefully) piece and it is sagging.

I hired a guy once to help me with some siding. I am not a sider, but I knew this guy was not one either. I suspect he had been around siding work, but silicone to hold final piece in the gable?

Bye bye!

Btw, that piece is still holding! :laughing:


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

boman47k said:


> Maybe it is just a case of a helper spacing the nails 6' apart on the one (hopefully) piece and it is sagging.
> 
> I hired a guy once to help me with some siding. I am not a sider, but I knew this guy was not one either. I suspect he had been around siding work, but silicone to hold final piece in the gable?
> 
> ...


That's pretty standard. On a small piece you do more damage if you try and trim nail it. Caulk it and it holds forever.

As for the OP, pull it open and you should be able to adjust the panels above and below it order to let it lock.


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## bronzgonz (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks for the in-put. I went out and looked at it better off a ladder, the install was crap. It sags in the middle. Upon closer inspection all the J-channel is short around windows causing water problems. My fix, tear it all down and re-do. working on bid now. Customer is all for it.:thumbup: Thanks again for the help, I think we all realized that to re-do it is the best way to handle this. This is also on a town home so I'm hoping to get pretty busy seeing that the better part of them looks the same way.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

VinylHanger said:


> That's pretty standard. On a small piece you do more damage if you try and trim nail it. Caulk it and it holds forever.
> 
> As for the OP, pull it open and you should be able to adjust the panels above and below it order to let it lock.


Like I saod, Iam not a sider, but he did a few other things that I had to redo concerning wrapping the corners with metal.

When I saw him pack that piece with caulk, jut kinda threw me off. On th ones I did, I punched tabs in that last piece in the gable, and may have face in the very tip. 


I agree the caulked piece will not go anywhere unless the one below goes to.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

larryb said:


> Mostly have seen this on new construction as a result of low quality too fast installs. Only permanent solution is to take down to the loose panel and re-install.



this is band shrinkage and is common on floor systems that use nominal lumber,there is no way to anticipate or compensate for this during install


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

the ''fix'' is actually pretty easy


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## bronzgonz (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks Tom, that is what my siding supplier explained for me to do. We have a lot of that around here. I would go that route if water damage was not present. Cant bring myself to cover up a problem. I do like that fix for dry fixes.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Good,water issues need to be fixed..thats the primary thing:thumbsup:


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Red Adobe said:


> I ran into 220 houses that had this issue, lots of factors but it all comes down to the installer and what temp it was when hung
> I have used trim screws under the lip to screw the seem together, seems to work well since the panels grow or shrink the same
> I dont face nail.....besides ruining the look it also wont allow the panel to move.


I was just kidding when I sugested face nailing. :laughing:
I do so little vinyl .


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

bronzgonz said:


> Thanks for the in-put. I went out and looked at it better off a ladder, the install was crap. It sags in the middle. Upon closer inspection all the J-channel is short around windows causing water problems. My fix, tear it all down and re-do. working on bid now. Customer is all for it.:thumbup: Thanks again for the help, I think we all realized that to re-do it is the best way to handle this. This is also on a town home so I'm hoping to get pretty busy seeing that the better part of them looks the same way.


 Looks like you hit a home run there.
Sometimes it pays to check out the small jobs.:thumbup:


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