# need production rate for jack hammer



## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

HELP!!!...I'm working on a site analysis/logistics/estimate report for a civil case and can't locate a base production rate for breaking unreinforced concrete.
Scenario is to remove 195 cu.yds of flowable fill from a basement and crawlspace under a pier and beam structure. Subflooring will be removed as much as possible to allow access but floor joists and beams will have to remain in place, so this is pretty much a worst case scenario. All other logistics (ie: load into buckets, haul to exterior, dump etc) are accounted for so it's just an hourly production rate for the breaking process. All I have found is a secondhand reference to a Goldenseal ideal rate of 8 cu.ft/hr. As it is now, I have 2 cu.ft/hr penciled in due to the confined space but have no real base rate to reference and this is the most critical rate in justifying the cost estimate


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I don't really know what your trade is, it seems you're a house flipper, and if that's the case, will you be using subs? If so, find out from them what their time estimate is.

If, on the other hand, you will be doing the work yourself, and you have obviously never done it before, a national standard time estimate will be all but meaningless for you, because I guarantee that your first time will not be as fast or smooth or trouble-free as someone who has done it all their life.


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

A.T.C. said:


> If, on the other hand, you will be doing the work yourself, and you have obviously never done it before, a national standard time estimate will be all but meaningless for you, because I guarantee that your first time will not be as fast or smooth or trouble-free as someone who has done it all their life.


Putting a WAG bid number together by drawing on 30 years of related digging work is no problem at all, but this is a logistics and cost analysis report for a legal case so what I'm looking for is a link to that national production standard to justify a worst case scenario. Basically, if someone on the jury doesn't have the experience of working in similar situations, 2800 man hours might seem pretty excessive unless backed by a verifiable production standard


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## Sar-Con (Jun 23, 2010)

The rate is going to vary greatly on the thickness of the concrete and the tools available to break....


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

Sar-Con said:


> The rate is going to vary greatly on the thickness of the concrete and the tools available to break....


the average depth is approximately 72" and the tools are 35 pound and 90 pound breakers... the production rate has to be published data, not a rate drawn from personal experience 

I know there are many ways to skin a cat but this is the process we've defined as requiring the least disturbance to the existing structure and the easiest process for a non-construction worker to understand


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

If you'll be hammering next to an existing structure you might rattle it apart running 90lb. hammers. Even though it's not reinforced concrete concrete, that's a lot of material to remove and haul out.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

if you're seeking advice for a pending law suit....it sounds to me as though you're an attorney? every time i sit down at my attorney's desk, it costs me a min. of $200. you're looking for a professional opinion? i think you should seek somebody in your community that is educated, has experience in that field, and pay them accordingly for that "professional opinion".


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Kinda what I was thinking. Why don't you go HIRE a Demolition Contractor, and pay him for his professional opinion on how long it will take his firm to do the work.

If you're looking for some legally binding, national standard figures, you probably won't get a ton of info here. You could take any 100 Contractors on this site, and probably get 100 different time estimates, and procedures.

Sorry.


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

A.T.C. said:


> If you're looking for some legally binding, national standard figures, you probably won't get a ton of info here. You could take any 100 Contractors on this site, and probably get 100 different time estimates, and procedures.
> 
> Sorry.


you're probably correct on that, just figured there might be a commercial estimator around this forum that could provide a reference link not an opinion


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Depends on the material, equipment, operator & site conditions....

no standard exists that I am aware of...


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

griz said:


> Depends on the material, equipment, operator & site conditions....
> 
> no standard exists that I am aware of...


well damn it, there were 30 years ago!!!... I still have data pages for soil excavation by makeup and tools used, loading and transport rates etc, and also had other various sitework rates including hand demo processes... I know it had California in the title (which skews the data right off the bat) but the pages I have didn't print all the way to the margins so no title on them.... no biggie, I'll be in Austin manana and know a couple of old school estimators with dusty books on the wall, if not found there, I'll roll with soft limestone as a comparable


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Tree-Fiddy. :whistling


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

VinylHanger said:


> Tree-Fiddy. :whistling


I have noticed that typing tree fiddy as a response makes alot more sense when your drunk.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

195 is a huge number to me... I'm intrigued...

How do you know it's 6' thick???


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

TimelessQuality said:


> 195 is a huge number to me... I'm intrigued...
> 
> How do you know it's 6' thick???


it's a unique situation.... 6' is an assumed depth based on the only measurable visible evidence which is the top of a door jamb with 8" exposed. Fill actually extends down another 24 feet or so into two or three hand dug sub chambers below the basement but that is not part of the correctional scenario.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

If nobody got hurt in the case, then I say the contractor should win.


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## JBryant (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't have a copy available and it is not free, but RSMeans may have a production rate for this or a similar situation. Sorry I can't help more.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

RebuildTeam said:


> it's a unique situation.... 6' is an assumed depth based on the only measurable visible evidence which is the top of a door jamb with 8" exposed. Fill actually extends down another 24 feet or so into two or three hand dug sub chambers below the basement but that is not part of the correctional scenario.


Wow!

What the hell did they build, and what the hell did it used to be??

Sounds interesting.


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

A.T.C. said:


> Wow!
> 
> What the hell did they build, and what the hell did it used to be??
> 
> Sounds interesting.


it is interesting.... google "east austin bunker"


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

JBryant said:


> I don't have a copy available and it is not free, but RSMeans may have a production rate for this or a similar situation. Sorry I can't help more.


awesome! they have a free trial.... thanks!


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

RebuildTeam said:


> it is interesting.... google "east austin bunker"


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

A.T.C. said:


>


I think that was the look on the hippie kid's face across the street when the SWAT teams rolled in that morning


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Look here:

page 6 K

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23263174/EQUIPMENT-CAPABILITES


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

griz said:


> Look here:
> 
> page 6 K
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/23263174/EQUIPMENT-CAPABILITES


muchas gracias!... that's what I've been seeing mentioned as an ideal rate for an experienced jacker on an exposed slab scenario. I took a similar rate and factored the difficulty at 5x to come up with my base rate


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

Here's a link to some video...kvue news story


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

They just filled it up with concrete. 30' down. Holy crap!


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## RebuildTeam (Jan 9, 2010)

Morning Wood said:


> They just filled it up with concrete. 30' down. Holy crap!


no, they rolled in with SWAT teams before rolling in the concrete trucks!


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## V-Con Inc (Jan 15, 2013)

Flowable fill is going to come up faster than concrete. Flowable fill is a very light concrete mix with no large aggregate. It is more comparable to a soil and can be excavated. If you are at a site when it is poured, you will know why its called "flowable fill".


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