# Customer wanting to help with job.



## Chipfo (Mar 24, 2017)

I got this job repairing cracks in a living room walls and ceiling, texturing it all, installing crown, painting etc. I told the lady Saturday I would call her monday evening after painting this swimming pool. She sent this email this morning - 

"Chip,

What if I help you? That will get project started and help with costs."

I know she is energetic and outgoing and all but I really do not want her to help but I don't want to hurt her feelings. I definitely do not want to fix mudwork done wrong 

I told her already that clearing out the room of furniture, pictures etc would be great help. Has anyone else had this come up?


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

"sorry, my insurance agent would go through the roof if he heard you were helping me. I'm not allowed to have any helpers on my job unless are fully insured."


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Say something like this:

The price I gave you was for me to do the work. While I understand your reasoning for wanting to help, I have my systems and procedures set up to operate efficiently and when introducing someone to my processes who doesn't have proficiency with the way I do things, it ends up taking longer than it would for me to have done it myself. Having said that, if you'd still like to help, here is the (much higher) revised price. How would you like to proceed?


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## Workingmanvan (Feb 27, 2017)

I think telling her moving furniture etc was a good move, gets her involved, and it's stuff you would hope they would do before you show up.

As for her helping out with the work: I agree with you, I wouldn't want a homeowner doing the work along with me.

I would do what is suggested above and go with the insurance line, as well as a line going into detail that while you understand she wants to help, you have your methods to get a proper job done, and have learned this from years of experience with the work. This is what you rely on for a quality finish, and someone else performing what is supposed to be your scope of work, would result in an inability to offer a warranty for the work, as well as for the original price to be honored if there is any deficiency work to be done resulting from homeowner's work.

IE if you have HO doing a bunch of sanding, then you prime and a bunch of areas were missed, will she be fine paying you for another skimcoat of mud to fix her mistakes? or will she be fine and say leave it? but if you are like me that would drive you nuts, and the work would have your name on it whether she helped or not, so anyone coming over and seeing the work, if her part isn't that great, will reflect badly on you. those would be my thoughts in that situation.

For me it is typically the homeowner just want to stand two feet away and watch sometimes. I can't stand that, but am polite and make conversation. Typically older retired fellows bored out of their minds I think. Pleasant enough guys, but makes for a long day.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I worry about paid help, I'll be damned if I let a client help.


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## Chipfo (Mar 24, 2017)

Workingmanvan said:


> I think telling her moving furniture etc was a good move, gets her involved, and it's stuff you would hope they would do before you show up.
> 
> For me it is typically the homeowner just want to stand two feet away and watch sometimes. I can't stand that, but am polite and make conversation.


Yeah that's what I was thinking, thank her for moving the furniture and unless she is an expert drywall finisher then best leave that to me and not create more work.

As far as them watching, it doesn't bother me, after all these years I am used to it. With mud work I will even show off by flipping the knife around and spinning the pan in the palm of my hand, lol, like a trick bartender


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Is she hot?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Communication and coordination increase increases costs.

Plus some people think if it's OK for them to help a little, they can do anything they want to "help". Like put a lumpy thick recoat on a seam that's ready for sanding.

Yeah, that's saving money alright, thanks for the help...


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Sign I had posted in the old Sunoco station decades ago:
(adjust for inflation)

Labor Rate: $5.00/hr
You Watch: $10.00hr
You Help: $15.00/hr


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

They never save money by doing anything themselves. I give the insurance line or the I would need to charge a management fee to manage your work.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

Nice move with the furniture line. You could always just let her do the painting. That way she is not helping you she is just doing it.


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## Chipfo (Mar 24, 2017)

Thanks for all the replies, I was looking for different opinions. After I replied getting the room clear would be great and helping could slow me down she wrote back that she asked the question wrong. I still am unclear as to what she meant but at least it wasn't help in the way I thought, lol.

I also added in there that there is a reason I start new workers in closets. I guess I will find out what she meant when I arrive


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## Workingmanvan (Feb 27, 2017)

Reminds me of a job I did years ago.. customer (family friend) was doing a bunch of remodeling to a house he bought and was moving into. He hired myself to do a large portion of the work. Charged him an hourly rate, was a good few weeks work.

One morning upon arrival, I was quite surprised at the scene in one of the bathrooms. I guess he had figured he'd get ahead of the game and take care of some of the painting himself. There was a roller cage on the floor with a sleeve, dried up with paint. One of those gimmicky edger things marketed to homeowners for a perfect cut in line, also laying on the floor. The absolute worst wall cut ins I've ever seen, all over the ceiling (which was already finished, painted a bright white), as well as the worst rolling work I've ever seen, drips everywhere, not even finished in a 5x8 bathroom with no fixtures in yet. A couple empty beer bottles on the floor.

He never mentioned it once. Took me twice as long to fix his work and redo the painting, as it would have just for me to paint it to begin with. He never attempted anymore "help" after that one. Which was a relief.


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## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Chipfo said:


> Thanks for all the replies, I was looking for different opinions. After I replied getting the room clear would be great and helping could slow me down she wrote back that she asked the question wrong. I still am unclear as to what she meant but at least it wasn't help in the way I thought, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> I also added in there that there is a reason I start new workers in closets. I guess I will find out what she meant when I arrive




I think I know where this is going, and I'm very excited for you. Please report back. 


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## Chipfo (Mar 24, 2017)

gbruzze1 said:


> I think I know where this is going, and I'm very excited for you. Please report back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:laughing: Honestly never thought about it that way. Besides she is married and, Homey don't play dat, lol


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Chipfo said:


> Besides she is married


Those are the ones most likely to offer something and not in a straight forward manner. Be prepared to spend more time on the jobsite than planned.


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## Chipfo (Mar 24, 2017)

avenge said:


> Those are the ones most likely to offer something and not in a straight forward manner. Be prepared to spend more time on the jobsite than planned.


Nope, like I said, Homie don't play dat, lol. Me being Homie. I am too old to be going out getting all killed and stuff


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

When i get offered help like that I just ask her to keep the cookie tray and lemonade pitcher stocked.


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## Live Edge (Nov 29, 2016)

I run into this constantly with remodel work. The homeowner somehow thinks you can do half priced work for them "helping". I always always always politely refuse the offer. We run a business and things need to stay professional. That's just my opinion, but it's never been a deal breaker on any jobs.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

I give a short and quick answer. "no thanks, I got it handled." No explanations.

And as someone else mentioned... this type of HO request always gets me cautious...as most likely they are trying to save money. Or they going to nitpick around. I hope you have a signed contract and get some dough upfront.

The only exception is if shes 30-40 years old...hot ...single... and sporting some nice juggs. Or has a spankable butt.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Depends on the nature of the work. 
Moving and packing /stacking lumber I need a hand with. 
Cutting trim, I'm all set, thanks.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

I've never been offered help when going into a crawlspace to dispose of feces soiled vapor barriers.

Maybe I should ask.


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## Chipfo (Mar 24, 2017)

kirkdc said:


> I hope you have a signed contract and get some dough upfront.


No, I got the "We are going to hold off for now" call. I think it was having to clear the room so all the cracks in the ceiling and walls could be fixed, sorry but I have covered furniture and worked around it, not worth it.


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## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

Homeowner: My son/ husband will be around to give you a hand. If there are things he can do.

Me: ( a day later) Hey son/ husband! If you want to help you could haul in that pile of lumber/ move all the furniture/ remove the suspended ceiling tiles/ haul out the garbage/ etc

next day: Its still not done, I need it done, and do it myself when I was planning to do other things rather.

Moral: just do it yourself


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

I highly recommend a simple contract with specifics listed and payment schedule. It's also good to list that there will be additional charges for add-ons, changes and penalties if HO does not pay. And a clause for "unforeseen circumstances ( ie open up a wall and find black mold everywhere) It really solidifies the deal and both parties know exactly what they are giving and getting. 

I'm always surprised how many contractors go soley on a verbal agreement. Or wait until the job is completed to ask for payment. ???


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

I always tell them sure. You go up first and I'll hold the ladder for you. Nobody has taken me up on my offer yet. 


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## Chipfo (Mar 24, 2017)

kirkdc said:


> I highly recommend a simple contract with specifics listed and payment schedule. It's also good to list that there will be additional charges for add-ons, changes and penalties if HO does not pay. And a clause for "unforeseen circumstances ( ie open up a wall and find black mold everywhere) It really solidifies the deal and both parties know exactly what they are giving and getting.
> 
> I'm always surprised how many contractors go soley on a verbal agreement. Or wait until the job is completed to ask for payment. ???


Oh yes, I do all that, unforseens and extras etc. And just like you did I also put an example in parenthesis (insert example example, ha ha). But I got the "we are going to wait" call before I did all that. 

You know, on a side track here, there are still some people that will look you square in the eyes and say "Well, I thought that was included in the bid" even though it is written in plain english. I even had one lady say "Well I know it says this will be extra but I thought we was just going to discuss it on the side but was included in the bid" Ha ha. Um, no maam, I don't work 20 extra hrs for free. I turned in the "Extras" bill and was never paid, I let it go. That job was a nightmare, I looked at it as I ate such and such amount to never have to deal with them again, money well spent, lol!


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

"She's gonna wait" She's probably going to look for someone else to sucker in.

Yep a simple contract works well in small claims court. Heck I won a case just with a verbal agreement many years ago.

OTOH winning in small claims court doesn't always mean you always get paid. Just keep the lien on...bu still no dough. Thats why i get my money upfront (50/50 or 40/30/30) 

Some jobs (due to how people act or what kind of controlling deal they try to pull on me) I no longer want. I quickly say I'm booked solid or if they really piss me off I tell them I'm not interested in working for you. I say thanks and leave. And some times I throw them a estimate 3 times higher than the norm.


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## Workingmanvan (Feb 27, 2017)

Yep, I am always glad to get those jobs over with. I write a very specific scope of work, of what is included and what materials are included. With some people it feels like they didn't read it whatsoever, and just went right down to the bottom line price, and made up their mind. Then during the job they drive me nuts asking for this or what, and are all surprised when I say I can certainly give them a price for that. With the last one like that, I actually printed off a copy of the quotation/scope of work and had on me at the jobsite. When they see it in writing it tends to end the discussion quicker I find.


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## russellremodel (Apr 24, 2015)

My contract states that due to insurance purposes homeowners are not allowed in work area. It also states if homeowner is in work are that work will stop and homeowner will be billed for lost time. I agree with the other, tell them your insurance won't allow them to help


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

russellremodel said:


> My contract states that due to insurance purposes homeowners are not allowed in work area. It also states if homeowner is in work are that work will stop and homeowner will be billed for lost time. I agree with the other, tell them your insurance won't allow them to help


That only works if you have started the project. If they decide to demo the project prior to you occupying, that reason won't hold water.


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## russellremodel (Apr 24, 2015)

yes there are different situations and variables that can be involved. I have had a few customers ask about helping to save some money. After I told them my insurance doesn't allow them to be in the same area, that is usually the end of it. That's just what has worked for me


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