# Evolution of a Carpenter



## kcbasements (Feb 5, 2010)

I was reading post of "how do I know if i'm a carpenter". 5 years ago it was when you were a professional Rough-In or Finish guy... Without new construction, most of us are remodeling. A remodel guy has to be good at both. Not only that, but he better be able handle other tasks (tile, drywall, cabinetry, ect.). I would love to be able to do only one thing and do one thing well. I just don't see how right now.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

to true, if your in new construction you have to specialize and get good and fast to make any cash these days as there are so many illegals out there doing it for less.

im in reno and its amazing how one minute you can be cutting crown and all of a sudden a concrete truck shows up and you have to fill sauna tubes for the new deck.plus you have to carry a wider range of tools which adds up


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## Carpenter Wayne (Dec 21, 2009)

kcbasements said:


> I was reading post of "how do I know if i'm a carpenter". 5 years ago it was when you were a professional Rough-In or Finish guy... Without new construction, most of us are remodeling. A remodel guy has to be good at both. Not only that, but he better be able handle other tasks (tile, drywall, cabinetry, ect.). I would love to be able to do only one thing and do one thing well. I just don't see how right now.


 
I read that same post - "how do you know when you're a carpenter?"

in my opinion the term "carpenter" has a wide spectrum of meaning

example - some guys are genius when it comes to being a framing carpenter, they can cut/run circles around other guys, and frame the most complicated stair systems, roof systems, etc. that you can throw at them while other guys are limited to being decent at framing walls, floor systems, decks, bulkheads, etc. (but at the same time) the lesser experienced framing guy may know how to frame with both wood AND metal fairly decent PLUS have another trade or 2 up his sleeve that he's good at (tile? drywall? concrete? plumbing? trim? etc.) while the really good framer that can frame anything only knows how to frame with wood, and frame "only" - so - how do you define "carpenter" to begin with, and what exactly is it that defines one in 100% absolute??

Some guys can frame really good (run crews/lead) and SOME can also do finish/trim work really well but get them in a "re-hab" situation where you go in and gut a building/home and have to put it all back together start to finish, and they're lost - why? - because they're too used to new construction and most likely because they're too young (having worked from the mid/later 90s fresh out of high school during the boom time and ONLY as a framer or trim guy) and/but now that there's little to no new const/home building - they're faced with having to re-invent themselves while most of us old/er guys (that entered the trades back in the early 1980s recession) step rgt in and rehab/remodel like 2nd nature, and actually enjoy doing so because for a long time - that part of the trade barely existed during the boom when everyone was building new (and at the same time) was the main staple during the 1980s recession.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

kcbasements said:


> Not only that, but he better be able handle other tasks (tile, drywall, cabinetry, ect.)


What makes one think they can just pick up another trade and be any good at it? Just because there's not enough work for you doesn't mean you are now qualified as a different tradesman.

You've done a specific trade for years to become well versed in it. How do you plan to start doing another trade so quickly? Maybe instead of trying to perform a trade you have little or no experience in, try becoming better in the trade you are already doing. The better tiler I become, the more marketable I am and the more I can charge. If I don't become better than I'm not much valuable than a carpenter become tiler. 

This is not directed toward any one individual. Just overall, it doesn't make sense to be a jack of all/master of none kinda guy. There is a big difference between the two.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Right on :thumbsup: There are lots of jack of all trades, masters of none.

Right now, we are having a really hard time finding a top notch tile setter. My guy retired recently, and he was a true master in the trade.

Not many good ones left. So I totally agree with you. Get really good at your trade, and you will have work coming out of your ears.


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## Carpenter Wayne (Dec 21, 2009)

angus242 said:


> This is not directed toward any one individual. Just overall, it doesn't make sense to be a jack of all/master of none kinda guy. There is a big difference between the two.


This isn't directed at any "one" individual either

but

why would anyone limit themselves to learning one thing to the point of being a master at it while ignoring other aspects of the trades which allow one more opportunity, more knowledge/skillsets and in turn more potential to make money in a variety of the trades?

To me, as I see it, and as many others would agree, that's being "short sighted" and cutting your own throat so to speak. I know many guys that wish they knew how to do more than just the one thing they're good at/spent the last 20 yrs doing for the simple fact that it's all they know, and when they can't get any work doing it - have to pass on other things that come their way just because they limited themselves to mastering that "one thing". :laughing:


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

After 22 years as a superintendent for a general contractor I know just enough about every trade to be dangerous.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Carpenter Wayne said:


> This isn't directed at any "one" individual either
> 
> but
> 
> ...


I agree with that. But become a master at your chosen trade first. I see too many guys who lean a little about everthing and are not proficient at any of them.

Just because I can change a light fixture doesn't make me and electrician. Now, after I became a carpenter, I chose to apprentice in electrical, and passed those exams, then I would be proficient in two trades.

After 40 years in the business, I can do a lot of things other than just carpentry. But as the example above shows, I am not an electrician - as the example.

I've posted this before, but the last time I tried to hire a carpenter, I went through 13 guys before one showed up that truly was. Too many guys who 'just do trim' or 'I just frame' or 'I just do form work' etc. etc.


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

Sometimes I envy guys that only do one trade because they are so damn efficient, but not now when they dont have broad enough skills to keep them busy.

If I hung sheetrock all day everyday I would go nuts. Thats why I do lots of exteriors in the summer. Just get outside and enjoy my work. I think theres plenty of space in my brain to be proficient at multiple trades. I do this mainly because I would like to be a knowledgable general someday, but it still comes in handy when the markets slow.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Carpenter Wayne said:


> why would anyone limit themselves to learning one thing to the point of being a master at it while ignoring other aspects of the trades which allow one more opportunity, more knowledge/skillsets and in turn more potential to make money in a variety of the trades?
> 
> To me, as I see it, and as many others would agree, that's being "short sighted" and cutting your own throat so to speak. I know many guys that wish they knew how to do more than just the one thing they're good at/spent the last 20 yrs doing for the simple fact that it's all they know, and when they can't get any work doing it - have to pass on other things that come their way just because they limited themselves to mastering that "one thing". :laughing:


ok Mr one thing. I suppose I didn't get detailed enough. To become proficient in another trade isn't a bad thing.....as long as you aren't charging people to learn on their dime. 

That's the problem I have with the overall concept. Just because your trade isn't generating enough work for you doesn't mean you can wake up the next day and now become something else. Since we're talking specifically about carpentry, to me, that already encompasses quite a lot in itself. However, if carpentry dries up, you don't just become a tile setter next week. If you want to start apprenticing, that's a different story.

Don't get all upset about "one thing". If you want to _take the time_ needed to learn another trade, go right ahead. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you or anyone else decides to just start performing an inexperienced trade and charge for it, well that is where a problem arises. 

As for becoming a master at what you do, there are definitely benefits to it. Think of any trade, even outside of construction and the people who are the best in their field are sought after the most and make the most doing it. Nothing wrong with that either.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Well put Angus.

I can assure you, that if you are really good at what you do, there is no lack of work. Even in these times.


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## Carpenter Wayne (Dec 21, 2009)

angus242 said:


> ok Mr one thing. I suppose I didn't get detailed enough. To become proficient in another trade isn't a bad thing.....as long as you aren't charging people to learn on their dime.


 
Agreed :thumbsup:


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## kcbasements (Feb 5, 2010)

*Power of a GC*

Over the last 6 years of finishing basements I have been able to learn from masters of the trades by watching them on my own projects. As the GC I have the ability to oversee exactly how everything is done. Painting for example. A big part of the trade is knowing the right product and the right procedures. I am also very careful as to what types of projects I take on. In the beginning I would not take on 1200 sq ft travertine install. However, when a small bath remodel poped up I would take the opportunity in as a learning experiance. I didn't make much money on a lot of those early "learning experiances" but I always took my time and made sure they came out perfect.


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## basswood (Oct 31, 2008)

I charge people to "learn on their dime" all the time. The more the better.

If I'm really busy I have to sub some stuff out... these days I have to do about everything but plumbing & electrical to stay busy. I used to be a trim carpenter in new constuction... new home starts here dropped from 60/year to 30/year to 2/year. Last year I trimmed one new home (50% market share sounds better).

I bet Toyota wishes they did not outsource those gas pedals to an American company (the same models made in Japan have pedals made in house without problems). Subbing work out is just outsourcing by another name. Gains in efficiency are off set largely by loss of control of the process, scheduling issues. My drywall finisher is faster, but not better. In a small bath remodel, etc. it is better to keep it in house. I'm a perfectionist and competitive, so if I do it... it will be done right and few specialists will do better.

Cheers,

Basswood



angus242 said:


> ok Mr one thing. I suppose I didn't get detailed enough. To become proficient in another trade isn't a bad thing.....as long as you aren't charging people to learn on their dime.
> 
> That's the problem I have with the overall concept. Just because your trade isn't generating enough work for you doesn't mean you can wake up the next day and now become something else. Since we're talking specifically about carpentry, to me, that already encompasses quite a lot in itself. However, if carpentry dries up, you don't just become a tile setter next week. If you want to start apprenticing, that's a different story.
> 
> ...


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## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

As a renovation carpenter you have to be passable at many things. If I hired a specialist for every little thing the job would take forever. Installing a window might require some drywall. And some painting. I can't imagine even getting someone who would be willing to come out to do it. This is the nature of renovations. Many things others can do faster, once they are there. But to wait for them, if you can even get them, is not realistic.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

I don't know what you are talking about. The title should be the evolution of a pre-Madonna.

I can go footing to finish. BTW drywall and casework are carpenters work. Generic carpet, tiling, painting any monkey with their playskool construction kit can do it. But I tend to go for the high end gigs. Those tasks require real journeymen of their chosen profession. 

The stuff you are talking about is handyman work you can find those guy in CL ad.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Tradesmen are a product of their environment. Some guys frame tract homes without ever having the opportunity to hone their craft on custom projects and never get better than the basics. The same goes with every phase of construction. Carpenter is a job description, Craftsman is a testament of your lifes work.


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## kcbasements (Feb 5, 2010)

JustaFramer said:


> I don't know what you are talking about. The title should be the evolution of a pre-Madonna.
> 
> I can go footing to finish. BTW drywall and casework are carpenters work. Generic carpet, tiling, painting any monkey with their playskool construction kit can do it. But I tend to go for the high end gigs. Those tasks require real journeymen of their chosen profession.
> 
> The stuff you are talking about is handyman work you can find those guy in CL ad.


Painting and Tile can come out really good or really bad. If you go for high end jobs you know that the finish work is one of the most important steps. 

Handyman work is usually $500 or less. I generally stick to basement finishes.


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## kcbasements (Feb 5, 2010)

loneframer said:


> Tradesmen are a product of their environment. Some guys frame tract homes without ever having the opportunity to hone their craft on custom projects and never get better than the basics. The same goes with every phase of construction. Carpenter is a job description, Craftsman is a testament of your lifes work.


 
What works for some doesn't always work for others. The environment has a lot to do with it. If you have a good thing going you can stick to one area. When a strategy is no longer effective, you must find another approach. 

The ability to understand and adapt to your specific market is what business is all about.


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## cbchris (Jan 4, 2010)

> The ability to understand and adapt to your specific market is what business is all about.


Couldn't have said it better myself. I've found that most of the good contractors that I've crossed paths with have generally been pretty good at other trades.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

cbchris said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself. I've found that most of the good contractors that I've crossed paths with have generally been pretty good at other trades.


 
...the biggest thing about knowing more then just your trade allows to you know what the guys before and after you will be doing so you can account for it to make your job easier or to make sure you are not screwing the next guy....

There are many people who only do one thing...and they tend to have no thougths about what happens after their work and say the trim guy has to come in and deal with the mess they left. Their work might be great but they screwd me. There are alot of these ppl out there and many of them I see sitting around now while the guys that can do a little of it all are still moving. I get asked all the time if I can do this or that... I usally take a closer look at what they are asking before I say yes or no.... I can set tile, do drywall, masonry, change a bath fan.... If the job is not overly complicated I will take it on...

A few jobs ago I was in the clients home doing Trim work...they asked me if I could reaplace the bath fan's because they has burnt out....I took a look and said yes. The clients are going to be much happier with you if you can solve their problems fast. I could have said no and to call an electrican, but I would be willing to bet they would be less likly to give me more work...


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## basswood (Oct 31, 2008)

cbchris said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself. I've found that most of the good contractors that I've crossed paths with have generally been pretty good at other trades.


Of course, I've also known a roofer that just used his trade instead of other trades... he shingled his shower stall... don't need no stinkin' tile setter. The shingles make a nice backscratcher too. They were nice cedar shakes so they smelled nice too.


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## smeagol (May 13, 2008)

quote If I hung sheetrock all day everyday I would go nuts. 

Me too but it sure weeds out the wussies.


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

JustaFramer said:


> I don't know what you are talking about. The title should be the evolution of a pre-Madonna.
> 
> I can go footing to finish. BTW drywall and casework are carpenters work. Generic carpet, tiling, painting any monkey with their playskool construction kit can do it. But I tend to go for the high end gigs. Those tasks require real journeymen of their chosen profession.
> 
> The stuff you are talking about is handyman work you can find those guy in CL ad.


Have any pics of your tile work? I think your dead wrong.


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

angus242 said:


> ok Mr one thing. I suppose I didn't get detailed enough. To become proficient in another trade isn't a bad thing.....as long as you aren't charging people to learn on their dime.
> 
> That's the problem I have with the overall concept. Just because your trade isn't generating enough work for you doesn't mean you can wake up the next day and now become something else. Since we're talking specifically about carpentry, to me, that already encompasses quite a lot in itself. However, if carpentry dries up, you don't just become a tile setter next week. If you want to start apprenticing, that's a different story.
> 
> ...


Angus, since remodeling kitchens and baths requires alot of carpentry and you are a tile setter which did you become a master of first? And how did you make ends meet when you took the pay cut to apprentice in the other?
If one is a "master" carpenter setting tile is not too far fetched.Plumb,level, square, flat. And common building sense.
I don't call myself a tile setter, but i have done it with good results. Nor do i call myself a master carpenter.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Here's why you become a master in your trade - carpenter.

Ok, we're doing this project, you're the carpenter.

Day one- build the raking shores for the masons over there.

Day two- we need to replace those sash windows, go to the shop and make me some new ones.

Day three- we need new gothic oak doors made for the entrance, make them up, and be sure to use a hammer head joint at the frame connection.

Day four- concrete guys need to pour a lintle, go form it for them.

Day five- go build some hollow 10"x10" newel posts over there, anchor them with this threaded rod.

I could go on, but the point is if you are a real carpenter, you'll know how to do all these things without me having to hold your hand.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

D.Foster said:


> remodeling kitchens and baths requires alot of carpentry


Installing cabinets? No. Building cabinets? Yes.

As for tile, sure anyone _can_ install it. The question is how many can install it correctly? That answer is not many. Can you? Perhaps. I don't know. What I do see, is A LOT of guys doing it incorrectly. Often.

Look, some of you are getting defensive for no reason. I have already stated that someone _can _be a master of multiple trades if they want. It's the guys that have work dry up and the next day they decide they're proficient enough at another trade to start charging for it. If you've been a carpenter for 10 years, I guarantee you don't go to bed on Tuesday and wake up Wednesday a tile guy. 

Someone mentioned tile and I know tile. I have been at tile for years and have had lots of professional training and I'm still educating. There's no way a guy learns how to professionally tile that quick. 

Just like I'm not a plumber, electrician, trim carpenter, drywaller, taper, painter, framer, hardwood guy, etc........:whistling


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

Fair enough, sorry if it sounded defensive, but i was only curious how your learning came about. Based on your comments of mastering one thing then apprenticing to learn another.
You're right, installing cabinets or vanities is not alot of carpentry, BUT remodeling (not replacing) a kitchen requires a fair amount of carpentry. Moving windows,walls,doors,replacing load walls with beams to open up the kitchen, thats what i understand to be a remodel in most cases. with of course the cabinets and finishes after.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

D.Foster said:


> Fair enough, sorry if it sounded defensive, but i was only curious how your learning came about. Based on your comments of mastering one thing then apprenticing to learn another.
> You're right, installing cabinets or vanities is not alot of carpentry, BUT remodeling (not replacing) a kitchen requires a fair amount of carpentry. Moving windows,walls,doors,replacing load walls with beams to open up the kitchen, thats what i understand to be a remodel in most cases. with of course the cabinets and finishes after.


I totally agree with you. I personally don't do most of what you mentioned. I hire people that know what the hell they're doing! :thumbup: My partner is the framer. For most anything else, we have great subs that we work with. 

:clap:


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

D.Foster said:


> Fair enough, sorry if it sounded defensive, but i was only curious how your learning came about. Based on your comments of mastering one thing then apprenticing to learn another.
> You're right, installing cabinets or vanities is not alot of carpentry, BUT remodeling (not replacing) a kitchen requires a fair amount of carpentry. Moving windows,walls,doors,replacing load walls with beams to open up the kitchen, thats what i understand to be a remodel in most cases. with of course the cabinets and finishes after.


I do all of the above. I sub out 99% of my electric, probably 75% of the plumbing. If I can get away with it I'm subbing out anything that has anything to do with vinyl siding or coil bending. I'll do them when I'm short on work but would rather concentrate on what I do well. I like the working with wood and build most of my own cabinets and laminate counter tops. I enjoy moving things around in a kitchen...doors, windows, headers, shortening windows and building the new sills (I'll even build the sashes if the budget allows) because it keeps me thinking. I will also paint if I have to, but usually try to get rid of that also.

I am a remodeling carpenter. Am I a master carpenter? Don't know, but I can fix what I  up without running for help.:laughing:

I might add that I grew up a carpenter's son and spent a lot of time as a youngster paying attention. My brother is also a carpenter, but works mostly new construction. When I read the "that's what I was thinking" thread I thought they were talking about him.


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

PA woodbutcher said:


> I do all of the above. I sub out 99% of my electric, probably 75% of the plumbing. If I can get away with it I'm subbing out anything that has anything to do with vinyl siding or coil bending. I'll do them when I'm short on work but would rather concentrate on what I do well. I like the working with wood and build most of my own cabinets laminate counter tops. I enjoy moving things around in a kitchen...doors, windows, headers, shortening windows and building the new sills because it keeps me thinking. I will also paint if I have to, but usually try to get rid of that also.
> 
> I am a remodeling carpenter. Am I a master carpenter? Don't know, but I can fix what I  up without running for help.:laughing:


 Heyyy me too:w00t:


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

katoman said:


> Here's why you become a master in your trade - carpenter.
> 
> Ok, we're doing this project, you're the carpenter.
> 
> ...




So anyone with the title "Carpenter" has to have all the skills of Norm Abrams? I don't think so. Not even Norm is that good a carpenter, he just plays one on TV. :laughing:

There are different types of carpenters, just like there are different types of Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers etc., etc. Carpentry is just too broad a field for most to be proficient at all aspects.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

mudpad said:


> So anyone with the title "Carpenter" has to have all the skills of Norm Abrams? I don't think so. Not even Norm is that good a carpenter, he just plays one on TV. :laughing:
> 
> There are different types of carpenters, just like there are different types of Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers etc., etc. Carpentry is just too broad a field for most to be proficient at all aspects.


No. All those jobs are the job of a journeyman carpenter. Here in Canada, all that is covered and taught. So if a man has his 'ticket' then I know he knows what he's doing. Or should at least. 

Yes, there are different types of Doctors, but first and foremost, they become doctors, then they specialize.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

katoman said:


> No. All those jobs are the job of a journeyman carpenter. Here in Canada, all that is covered and taught. So if a man has his 'ticket' then I know he knows what he's doing. Or should at least.
> 
> Yes, there are different types of Doctors, but first and foremost, they become doctors, then they specialize.


Right, but my point is, carpenters on a jobsite are not set up to go build a door, and then form a lintel etc. all within a week even if they knew how to do it. They would have to have a shop full of tools in their tool box.

The typical neurosurgeon has heard a lecture or two on Gynecology, but do you want him working on your wife?


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

The weeks' work was only for example purposes. My point was that if called upon to do any of those tasks, a journeyman carpenter could step up and do them.

I can do all those things. So I don't see why the next man can't. I also hold licenses in concrete, shingling, and residential sidings. This month I am taking courses with Schluter. 

The origional point here was to learn one trade in it's entirety, then you can learn another. We should never stop learning. But get the training, it's there for the asking.

My comments on this topic, which are probably well known by now, are not to critisize in any way, rather, I hope to encourage and perhaps motivate others.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Plumb, level, square. Sheer strength, tinsel strength, compression. Calculated loads, bonds. It's really all the same thing just using different mediums.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i had to replace all my tinsel this yeardam weak chinese stuff


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## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

IMO, A carpenter is one who can frame ( wood and metal), hang sheetrock and do trim. Granted, depending on your situation you will always be stronger in one of those. But he/she should be able to go on any carpentry job and not get left in the dust. Even though it may be a 'specialty' crew it will only take a week or so to fall into the groove. Tile setting, is a different trade that takes a whole other set of skills and tools, I've known many carpenters that said they were good tile setters, when I saw their work it was obvious that it was not their main trade.( they couldn't do a proper mudd set to save their lives). Anytime I put an ad out for a carpenter, if he/she calls and says they do tile and a bit of plumbing and electrical as well as carpentry, I DO NOT HIRE THEM. Mainly because I don't do that work, and because I'm looking for single minded carpenters. We may get bored with our own trades now and again, and it's nice to change hats occasionally, but to be competitive you gotta be quick and it's gotta be perfect. A combination that is achieved by years of repetition.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

d-rock said:


> IMO, A carpenter is one who can frame ( wood and metal), hang sheetrock and do trim. Granted, depending on your situation you will always be stronger in one of those. But he/she should be able to go on any carpentry job and not get left in the dust. Even though it may be a 'specialty' crew it will only take a week or so to fall into the groove. Tile setting, is a different trade that takes a whole other set of skills and tools, I've known many carpenters that said they were good tile setters, when I saw their work it was obvious that it was not their main trade.( they couldn't do a proper mudd set to save their lives). Anytime I put an ad out for a carpenter, if he/she calls and says they do tile and a bit of plumbing and electrical as well as carpentry, I DO NOT HIRE THEM. Mainly because I don't do that work, and because I'm looking for single minded carpenters. We may get bored with our own trades now and again, and it's nice to change hats occasionally, but to be competitive you gotta be quick and it's gotta be perfect. A combination that is achieved by years of repetition.


That is exactly how I feel when I am looking to hire. I love it when they say "I have done framing only for the past 10 years" Most of the calls I get are " I can do everything. Siding, concrete, drywall, roofing, etc. I will pass on those people. Even though lately we have done some of those things just to get by. When things are going well (and I am hiring) I am looking to frame big houses only. So it only makes sense to hire experts.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

how nice it would be for everyone to just do''their'' trade:thumbsup:


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

d-rock said:


> to be competitive you gotta be quick and it's gotta be perfect. A combination that is achieved by years of repetition.


This I agree with. It does not mean one can't change hats and not do a quality job. If one can do it profitably or not is another matter. I know many good carpenters that balk when faced with a multiple pitched roof. I feel that I do a few trades well, yet as an employer, I wouldn't hire myself. I'm too slow.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

solarguy said:


> This I agree with. It does not mean one can't change hats and not do a quality job. If one can do it profitably or not is another matter. I know many good carpenters that balk when faced with a multiple pitched roof. I feel that I do a few trades well, yet as an employer, I wouldn't hire myself. I'm too slow.


How many of you guys wondered why you were forced to learn geometry in high school? I know I did, and now I use it every day. But a lot of guys in the field never really got it, and that's why they balk when faced with a multiple pitch roof. Or a radius. I am always amazed at how many otherwise competent carpenters a clueless when it comes to anything other than straight lines. :w00t:


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

All I need to know is the order of the trusses or where I left my rafter book. Usually, I just find somebody smarter than me to help.


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## Girlscanbld2 (Feb 12, 2010)

solarguy said:


> All I need to know is the order of the trusses or where I left my rafter book. Usually, I just find somebody smarter than me to help.



Me too..I have skills, I'm one of the best at trim, but it's all the guys around me that are the true artisans. I just have a knack for making it happen, then I stand back and say "Damn, those guys are good!!" :notworthy


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## dorian reeve (Feb 11, 2010)

ok how do the folks in this thread define being trained in a trade ?

i feel that i am a carpenter first both finnish and rough .

i feel that i am also trained in plumbing gas and water and electrical tile and paint concrete .
i was lucky to grow up in my family's business starting as a gofer at 13 years old. working every summer and vacation i had being trained buy some of the most talented craftsmen i know my grand father was the owner and a master carpenter. i had my dad and 5 other uncles all in the company all in different trades 1 an electrician 2 plumers 1 in tile and paint and carpet .i worked for the business for 15 years full time training i only left when my grandfather retired and closed the company. 
i still don't know every thing but i know a hell of a lot compared to some guys i have met and worked with over the years. im still learning i do lots of different things i have had to in life . all of this lead to me evolving in to a general contractor i like to use all my skills so i do any time i get a chance .:thumbsup:


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

To be the top in anyone's trade it has to be practiced everyday. 
That said, I can drive a car and also ride a bike as well as walk, just not real fast.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

IMHO, the evolution of any specific trade is learning how your are affected, and you effect all the trades before and after you.

The more knowledge you have of all the trades allows you to be the best and most effiecient at yours.......nothing worse than the specialized 'sub' crying about the simplest problems.

And yes, I'm equipped with an arsenal to deal with most every day to day situation.....being that I began working as a renovation/remodeling carpenter.........funny that the more you learn the less tools it takes.


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