# Truth about advertising?



## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

I started my renovation business 2 years ago and have tried only a few advertising methods. I have passed out business cards like crazy, I've advertised in the classifieds, and I have started a Facebook page. So far business cards don't do a whole lot in gaining new clientele, the classifieds always bring me a ton of leads and even a good amount of work but it's mainly all time wasters an people looking for a bargain or looking to rip you off. And my Facebook page works great for displaying my work but has done very little in gaining me new clientele.

I've read articles and threads on SEO and various things but I'm curious what the bottom line true field test answer is.

So question: what are the top three methods of advertising that have worked for you?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

It's not easy starting out. I tried everything and the only thing that works for me is word of mouth. 

I go through maybe 30 cards a year, and never get a call from them.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> It's not easy starting out. I tried everything and the only thing that works for me is word of mouth. I go through maybe 30 cards a year, and never get a call from them.


I agree that word of mouth is by far the best advertising. I would say 95% of my business is from word of mouth and repeat customers. The problem is its not fast and it doesn't kick start my business in the slow seasons.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Stevarino said:


> I agree that word of mouth is by far the best advertising. I would say 95% of my business is from word of mouth and repeat customers. The problem is its not fast and it doesn't kick start my business in the slow seasons.


Yep, it sucks.


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## GAK (Apr 22, 2005)

Word of mouth is King.
Write a detailed proposal/contract, explain what you are going to do for them and then "Do It!"
Address any isssues at the end of the job before you present the bill.
Ask for any leads they might have, offer a referal reward.
Always try to leave with a satisfied customer who knows that you will appreciate their referals.
Do that consistently and you will always be busy.


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## CSB (Nov 17, 2007)

There is no "truth". The variance in advertising ROI is going to be huge because of the number of variables you're working with.

How many business cards are you handing out per day? How often are you interacting with followers and adding content on Facebook? What are you doing to give customers incentive to interact with you online and via social media?


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

The sweet smell of a Sharpie pen is wafting into faded memory.

Ochonoamosoaosowhaow will be along shortly. Hold tight.


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## jpeaton (Oct 4, 2013)

How about....
-folks behind the counter at the lumberyard and hardware store
-realtors
-architects
-other, busier contractors who are turning away jobs
-subcontractors

And more for long term branding.....
website, truck signs, yard signs

more than three I know! ...but I have obtained work from all of these sources


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

CSB said:


> There is no "truth". The variance in advertising ROI is going to be huge because of the number of variables you're working with. How many business cards are you handing out per day? How often are you interacting with followers and adding content on Facebook? What are you doing to give customers incentive to interact with you online and via social media?


I hand out about 15 a month. Without going door to door with them I just hand them to people when there is an opening. As for Facebook I post pictures of my jobs a few times a month (I usually only post the tile and finish work photos) that's really it.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

All but one of my jobs this year have been from WOM. I've had lots of leads from local searches turning up my website but I just haven't had the time to take any of them. The one job that wasn't WOM was from an internet search, it's about 50 hours of work.

Word of mouth should not be a passive method of marketing for any contractor. Do a site search for Oconomowoc and marketing and read some of his, very well thought out, posts.

Waiting for a happy customer to refer you is way to laid back for a guy who needs work. You have a list of happy customers, do something with it. Call them, let them know when you have some openings and ask if they, or anyone they know, needs some work done. Mail them a special offer for past customers and a special offer(slightly less) that they can give to a friend. It enhances their perception that you value them more than non-customers(and you should).

I keep a spreadsheet of leads and I have a category that includes projects that people have just mentioned in passing. When I feel like I might have a day or two for small projects I call them and say "Hey, I remembered that you had asked me about a new storm door the last time I was working on your house. I could stop over next Thursday morning and take care of that for you. How about it?".

I can usually pull together a couple days of high margin repair work using this list.

Edit: Handing out cards doesn't do a thing for me unless I make an impression. I sell myself, and them give them a card so they have a way of contacting me. Writing some specific info on the card, such as a product you recommend, is a great way of getting them to keep the card in a prominent location for a bit.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

jpeaton said:


> How about.... -folks behind the counter at the lumberyard and hardware store -realtors -architects -other, busier contractors who are turning away jobs -subcontractors And more for long term branding..... website, truck signs, yard signs more than three I know! ...but I have obtained work from all of these sources


I appreciate the ideas for sure! I'm getting t shirts printed up next month for myself and my crew. I will look into truck signs. And yeah I have given cards out to people in hd and lowes. 

I'm also considering trying to get hooked up with lowes or HD as a tile sub-contractor but no sure how it works


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

Ethan's points here are excellent. Your current satisfied customers are your best salespeople. I have excellent luck with my Facebook site (and it's free!), and my yard signs get me work. I'm getting better at selling myself and letting people I come into contact with know about what I do.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

Stevarino said:


> I started my renovation business 2 years ago and have tried only a few advertising methods. I have passed out business cards like crazy, I've advertised in the classifieds, and I have started a Facebook page. So far business cards don't do a whole lot in gaining new clientele, the classifieds always bring me a ton of leads and even a good amount of work but it's mainly all time wasters an people looking for a bargain or looking to rip you off. And my Facebook page works great for displaying my work but has done very little in gaining me new clientele.
> 
> I've read articles and threads on SEO and various things but I'm curious what the bottom line true field test answer is.
> 
> So question: what are the top three methods of advertising that have worked for you?


Become involved in church, youth athletics, PTA, HOA, block parties, charities, fundraising etc. Its all about how many hands you can shake and how many times you can tell your story about what you do, why you do it and why you're different than the next guy.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Creter said:


> The sweet smell of a Sharpie pen is wafting into faded memory.
> 
> Ochonoamosoaosowhaow will be along shortly. Hold tight.


I heard that


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Come to think of it, I haven't discussed marketing in a very long time on here really.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> I heard that



Bet you can't pronounce it LOL


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Oconomowoc said:


> Come to think of it, I haven't discussed marketing in a very long time on here really.


You had at least a couple dozen good marketing tips in the Transit thread.:laughing:


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

EthanB said:


> You had at least a couple dozen good marketing tips in the Transit thread.:laughing:


Ethan, I'm getting burnt out.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Oconomowoc said:


> Ethan, I'm getting burnt out.


On the marketing or the Transit? The Transit should be a Lamborghini at this point, if you're still working on it.:whistling


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

EthanB said:


> On the marketing or the Transit? The Transit should be a Lamborghini at this point, if you're still working on it.:whistling


I am. But slowly. The first rack I built works so well and carries so much stuff I'm not in as much of a hurry as I was. It's coming together though.

But I'm tired and burnt out a little bit. All three kids and the wife have been sick and I've been feeling crappy for 3 weeks. Been working everyday when I should be resting.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Getting burned out because one guy can only do so much.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

flashheatingand said:


> Getting burned out because one guy can only do so much.


Pretty much Flash. You know that gig


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Edit


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Gotta hire a green pea, that's my advise. But, we digress. That would be a good topic. 

To the OP, the only thing I might ad is if you have a crew, make sure they believe in the company and product. That really is something that will stick out.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Stevarino said:


> I started my renovation business 2 years ago and have tried only a few advertising methods. I have passed out business cards like crazy, I've advertised in the classifieds, and I have started a Facebook page. So far business cards don't do a whole lot in gaining new clientele, the classifieds always bring me a ton of leads and even a good amount of work but it's mainly all time wasters an people looking for a bargain or looking to rip you off. And my Facebook page works great for displaying my work but has done very little in gaining me new clientele.
> 
> I've read articles and threads on SEO and various things but I'm curious what the bottom line true field test answer is.
> 
> So question: what are the top three methods of advertising that have worked for you?


Do you have a blog?


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*More questions than answers*

I don't know how other parts of the country are doing, but my strong opinion is this is the worse time in history to start a business. Every business I talk to has been down 40% to 50% for several years and several of the what used to be most powerful businesses have closed or are near bankruptcy.

During these difficult times every type of advertising we did that made $millions is barely making pennies in today's market. A few years ago, I wrote that we were delivering flyers and grossed $2 for every flyer we delivered. It was beautiful! I could control our work schedule and income solely based on the number of flyers we delivered. When we delivered 150,000 per month we grossed $300,000. Today, we are lucky if we are grossing about 75 cents for every flyer we deliver. So, for 150,000 flyers per month we are grossing about $100k.

I don't call word-of-mouth advertising because while many people say that you get jobs from word-of-mouth by doing good work, etc. it is not really an advertising campaign that money buys. Word-of-mouth is just another arm that reaches out.

The Number One campaign of all time and the most effective that I still use today is more than 1 million flyers every year. There is no better way to put your message directly in a customer's hand than flyers and they can be delivered door-to-door, inserted in newspapers, mailed, and given to every customer and person you meet. You can mail them with all the bills you pay including utility bills, and post them on bulletin boards at super markets and businesses. etc.

The Number Two and Number Three campaigns I would use for restoration work, remodeling etc. include direct mail to real estate management companies, and mail to new homeowners who always do some remodeling when they purchase a house. While real estate management companies are usually very frugal with their money there are some gems out there who want the best work and they are willing to pay a reasonable price.

I would advertise in all the business directories in newspapers and the Pennysaver, etc. While you get many cheap customers all you need is one gem that will give you hundreds of thousands of dollars in business.

You have to look at the advertising you do as something you may not reap benefits from for many years. You may deliver 100,000 flyers door-to-door, or insert them in newspapers and you won't get one sale. But, a few months later you get a good lead. Then, as you continue to advertise the leads start to increase exponentially because most customers who want restoration work don't run to their phone the first time they get your flyer. Many people will keep the flyer for several years and call when they are ready.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

pcplumber said:


> I don't know how other parts of the country are doing, but my strong opinion is this is the worse time in history to start a business. Every business I talk to has been down 40% to 50% for several years and several of the what used to be most powerful businesses have closed or are near bankruptcy. During these difficult times every type of advertising we did that made $millions is barely making pennies in today's market. A few years ago, I wrote that we we delivering flyers and grossed $2 for every flyer we delivered. It was beautiful! I could control our work schedule and income solely based on the number of flyers we delivered. When we delivered 150,000 per month we grossed $300,000. Today, we are lucky if we are grossing about 75 cents for every flyer we deliver. So, for 150,000 flyers per month we are grossing about $100k. I don't call word-of-mouth advertising because while many people say that you get jobs from word-of-mouth by doing good work, etc. it is not really an advertising campaign that money buys. Word-of-mouth is just another arm that reaches out. The Number One campaign of all time and the most effective that I still use today is more than 1 million flyers every year. There is no better way to put your message directly in a customer's hand than flyers and they can be delivered door-to-door, inserted in newspapers, mailed, and given to every customer and person you meet. You can mail them with all the bills you pay including utility bills, and post them on bulletin boards at super markets and businesses. etc. The Number Two and Number Three campaigns I would use for restoration work, remodeling etc. include direct mail to real estate management companies, and mail to new homeowners who always do some remodeling when they purchase a house. While real estate management companies are usually very frugal with their money there are some gems out there who want the best work and they are willing to pay a reasonable price. I would advertise in all the business directories in newspapers and the Pennysaver, etc. While you get many cheap customers all you need is one gem that will give you hundreds of thousands of dollars in business. You have to look at the advertising you do as something you may not reap benefits from for many years. You may deliver 100,000 flyers door-to-door, or insert them in newspapers and you won't get one sale. But, a few months later you get a good lead. Then, as you continue to advertise the leads start to increase exponentially because most customers who want restoration work don't run to their phone the first time they get your flyer. Many people will keep the flyer for several years and call when they are ready.


Thanks a ton that was super helpful. I will look into mailers and real estate contacts. I've heard a few other people say good things about flyers and mailers.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

And no I don't have a blog.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Stevarino said:


> And no I don't have a blog.


Do you have a website?


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Do you have a website?


Just a Facebook page


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## CMidwinter (Oct 5, 2013)

Full disclosure, I'm an online advertising guy. So this may seem disingenuous, but...

It's all about tracking. For contractors especially, it's crucial to get good call tracking setup for any advertising source you decide to test out. Going to send out some flyers? Get a custom number so you can track it every time someone calls from the flyer. Giving out business cards? Custom tracking number. Classified ad? Custom tracking number.

It sounds expensive, but you can get a pool of 8 numbers for about $30/mo. I use Callrail for all my call tracking (no affiliation).

I've also seen search marketing (through AdWords) be effective for contractors. The trick is taking the time to, once again, install good call tracking so you know what keywords are sending you the business you want, and gradually dial those up and everything else down. It takes time, but with consistent testing, you can have a winning campaign that sends you solid leads every month.

Local SEO is definitely something all of you should be doing. It's time consuming, but really effective. More and more of Google's results are going local, and the sooner you get on top of it the better. Contracting search terms definitely trigger local results almost all the time now.

Just my $0.02. Hope it's helpful.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

You put out a million flyers a year? Sweet Jesus the forests are crying


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who does the math here. How can you deliver 1,000,000 and get back .75 cents each. What does delivery cost?


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## A-1 Interiors (Oct 12, 2011)

Creter said:


> The sweet smell of a Sharpie pen is wafting into faded memory.
> 
> Ochonoamosoaosowhaow will be along shortly. Hold tight.


:clap::laughing::clap:


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

One thing that you have to understand is that your business card is a BRANDING tool. Not a marketing tool. 9 times out of 10 people have already made up their mind as to whether or not they are going to use/consider you for their next project before they get your card.

The card simply indicates how serious you are about your craft. 

Video blogging is the way to go these days. Most people have smart phones with internet and more people are watching videos than ever before. If you were to do some demonstrations, or pehaps your version of the big-box store "how to" clinic, people will be inclined to use your services vs. trying to do what you demonstrated.


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## Jspence (Mar 10, 2013)

Stevarino said:


> I appreciate the ideas for sure! I'm getting t shirts printed up next month for myself and my crew. I will look into truck signs. And yeah I have given cards out to people in hd and lowes.
> 
> I'm also considering trying to get hooked up with lowes or HD as a tile sub-contractor but no sure how it works


To answer that I got my start thru home depot installations, both lowes and hd contract there business thru a company, sometimes multiple companies, all you have to do is go in and ask who they use to do there installs for the work your looking to do, then contact that company and sign on to sub contract thru them, from my experience, work was never slow and all pricing was negotiable, I did it for a few years until I got my name out there and I haven't looked back since


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*Flyer printing*



Oconomowoc said:


> Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who does the math here. How can you deliver 1,000,000 and get back .75 cents each. What does delivery cost?


When printing flyers you have to shop around for printers with a web press. I get 300,000 flyers printed for each order and my exact cost is $5100 or 1.7 cents each. The flyers are 8 x 10 and they are full color on each side. I print about 4 to 5 orders every year and the advertising on them varies.

I have 8 employees who deliver them door-to-door and 2 supervisors. The Pennysaver is currently delivering 15,000 per week for about $34 per 1,000 or 3.4 cents each. So, my cost is about 5.1 cents per flyer when inserted in newspapers, etc. and about 17 cents each when hand-delivered. 

When I deliver 100,000 we get about $75,000 in business minus the cost of the flyers. This is not the return I like and it is not the $2 per flyer we used to get, but I would have to close my business if we did not deliver flyers. We also deliver 300,000 5 x 7 magnet calendars every year, 100,000 ink pens, and a few years ago we delivered 100,000 coffee mugs.

We have to keep advertising because the attrition rate for people passing away, foreclosures, and people selling their homes is unbelievable and it is impossible to keep up with the homeowner changes.

Calculate these numbers for the change in ownership. We have a database with 100,000 customers. We mail to the customers two times every year and every time we do a mailing we create personalized letters in batches of 500. For every batch we mail 25 letters come back saying the homeowner is no longer there. So, if we mail 500 letters to the same home two times and a total of 50 letters come back then this means 10% of the homes change hands every year. In 5 years 50% of the homes change hands. I've read statistics that the average homeowner sells their home every three years (I think).

If we have this huge change in ownership then we need to constantly market to the new homeowners.


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## richpuer (Aug 20, 2013)

pcplumber said:


> I don't know how other parts of the country are doing, but my strong opinion is this is the worse time in history to start a business. Every business I talk to has been down 40% to 50% for several years and several of the what used to be most powerful businesses have closed or are near bankruptcy.
> 
> During these difficult times every type of advertising we did that made $millions is barely making pennies in today's market. A few years ago, I wrote that we were delivering flyers and grossed $2 for every flyer we delivered. It was beautiful! I could control our work schedule and income solely based on the number of flyers we delivered. When we delivered 150,000 per month we grossed $300,000. Today, we are lucky if we are grossing about 75 cents for every flyer we deliver. So, for 150,000 flyers per month we are grossing about $100k.


I see you re from LA. I know a guy in OC that is making a killing right now putting ads in the local newspaper. He told me the environment for construction/remodeling is just getting better and better. says it may taper off into the holidays because people want to use their homes.. but still the money he makes in the on season far more than takes care of his bills during the off season.

His company is so busy theyre booked 6-8 weeks out for every project big or small. He spends like 30 grand a month advertising but is pulling in 500k per month from all his locations.

You're saying its down but im hearing different. i guess 35 miles can make such a big difference?


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## wakonako (Sep 7, 2013)

We use an informational website to get hits off google, but most of our business comes from word of mouth or people driving past and seeing our trucks and/or banners at jobsites.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Stevearino,
if you read through this thread you will see 2 basic approaches used. Both can be successful- but they each have their limitations.

Word of Mouth- this is an excellent approach- but it is VERY limiting. I will tell you straight out that I am a big fan of word of mouth advertising- but personal experience tells me that it is pretty confining,long term.

the basic constraint is--- that you are limited to doing the type of work that people actually call for. Imagine you are a talented carpenter--- and you really want to specialize in high end hardwood floor installations with artistic medallions etc.?- but when you started in business you took on any job to make a buck and pay the bills?----------- your first few jobs happened to be some vinyl replacement window replacements or vinyl siding a few houses-and you did an EXCELLENT job. Now you have this stream of WOM referrals for vinyl jobs

See how you have boxed yourself into a corner? Even if you DO a few hardwood installs the WOM referrals are going to be few and far apart. Like it or not WOM made you a vinyl installer,NOT the contractor you wanted to be.

But look at PCPlumbers method. Effective marketing allows you to create something out of nothing-it allows you to search out EXACTLY the projects you want and to control your own destiny to a degree WOM will simply not allow.

the first 20 years of my career or so I based my business on WOM. It was a nice comfortable living for ONE household. the past few years I decided to focus on one small segment of my previous work and to specifically target THOSE jobs and ONLY those jobs via direct mail. Now instead of personally handling primarily asphalt shingle projects via WOM in a 10 block radius. My company covers slate and Tile roofing over a 5 county area,my employees are paid well,drive company trucks, have medical benefits,retirement plans etc.

MARKETING made that happen in a way I very much doubt WOM could ever have accomplished.

Best wishes,
stephen


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