# Davis Bacon Wage Questions



## rshackleford (Jul 2, 2007)

Are there any instances in which Davis Bacon wages are not paid?

Warranty work?
Superintendents?
Foreman?
Mobilization?

Thanks in advance to any Davis Bacon experts out there.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

rshackleford said:


> Are there any instances in which Davis Bacon wages are not paid?
> 
> Warranty work?
> Superintendents?
> ...


I am by no means an expert on this , but from what I have heard from different guys around here it is a joke. We have Air Force base here so there is lots of Davis Bacon work. 

The only one making Davis Bacon wages are the ones on the top of the pile. Subs most of the time end up getting far less.


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## BDB (Sep 26, 2008)

Randy Bush said:


> The only one making Davis Bacon wages are the ones on the top of the pile. Subs most of the time end up getting far less.



Then the contracting office there is not doing their job and if they are not, then you can go over their heads to get it done correctly.

To the OP, the only person that can get by without being paid DB wages is owner/salary workers.


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## walkerj (May 14, 2007)

BDB said:


> Then the contracting office there is not doing their job and if they are not, then you can go over their heads to get it done correctly.
> 
> To the OP, the only person that can get by without being paid DB wages is owner/salary workers.


I agree. 
All hourly workers on the job should be paid PW. 
Positions like PM would be exempt if they are salary/no tools.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

If you are working on a DB job, the only people exempt from DB wages are, the owner of the company, the GC's overhead, or the owner of a sub-contracting company. Yes, the sub of a sub etc gets prevailing wage. There are all kind of games etc. used to skirt prevailing wage. But it is like committing any crime, it's profitable until you get caught. If there is a complaint or the job gets audited better have your ducks in a row, in triplicate.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

If your on a Prevailing Wage project, be prepared for the audit when you are done, ALL employees are subject to have their hours/rate of pay reviewed and scrutinized if anything looks out of line...all to be paid up properly...by YOU


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## redstoneaustin (Apr 17, 2011)

Most of what you guys wrote is correct, but here's a tip that help any contractor. 

Last night I asked a question about GCExperts and ended up being called a Douche Bag by somebody. Whatever. I called Doug Reitmeyer this morning and asked him about this question, Davis Bacon Wages.

He said that at his course, one of the methods to bypass Davis Bacon Wages that has increased their margins into the 30% and more range was that since all their work is Federal Government, and all of it subject to Davis Bacon wages, they have as much of the contract as can be Prefabbed off site, done so. Because anything prefabbed and not built and put together at the site, is not subject to Davis Bacon Wages.

I agree with him. You guys should check out what he's doing at gcexpertscom website. He's a genius as far as I'm concerned I signed up for his class. And based on the conversation I had last night, nobody on this site has even heard of him. Just google him: Doug Reitmeyer

Good Luck

Jim


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## AFOREMA1 (Jun 25, 2009)

redstoneaustin said:


> Most of what you guys wrote is correct, but here's a tip that help any contractor.
> 
> Last night I asked a question about GCExperts and ended up being called a Douche Bag by somebody. Whatever. I called Doug Reitmeyer this morning and asked him about this question, Davis Bacon Wages.
> 
> ...


Jim you have six posts, did not follow the forum rules and every post seems to be an ad for a company that has not paid to advertise here, oh and your more experienced and better electrician than anyone according to your first post. How did you expect people to treat you? :whistling

As an electrical contractor I work to make money but I don't really want to do it by screwing employees. Plus doing the work off site to avoid prevailing wage doesn't make you more money, you have to bill that labor at the rate it was done at. You cannot bill it at prevailing wage and keep the difference which is the only way your theory would work, its fraud. Plus most government jobs I have bid had profit caps on them.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Jimbo,

You gotta be a taut of some sort, you're all so gushy about this guy. That, or you have the most embarrassing man-crush in the history of the world. Tell him how you feel, you might get lucky.

You are right to an extent about pre-fab, a lot depends on who is doing the fabrication. For instance, the auditor is not going to ascertain if the lumber comes from a union mill, or if the pre-hung door manufacturer was using union labor. But if your company is doing the fabrication itself, offsite, then more than likely Bacon Davis is applicable. I have heard of this happening during the construction of pipe spools, and everybody at the pipe fabricator got a nice bonus about four months after the end of the job


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## HUI (Jan 21, 2011)

Most of the time when I am working on a PW job certified payroll has to be done. Also there are times when a person will come around from the grant administrator and interview your employees to verify what they are being paid.


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## jadleybray (May 2, 2008)

Offsite fabrication is not subject to PW rates, no matter whether its from the manufacturer or the GC or Sub employee's. The profit margin increase would be only if the GC/Sub bid all labor at PW rates, then performed some of that work offsite. Very common for HVAC and Steel fabriators, cabinets, countertops, etc.


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## BDB (Sep 26, 2008)

jadleybray said:


> Offsite fabrication is not subject to PW rates, no matter whether its from the manufacturer or the GC or Sub employee's. The profit margin increase would be only if the GC/Sub bid all labor at PW rates, then performed some of that work offsite. Very common for HVAC and Steel fabriators, cabinets, countertops, etc.



I have been doing DB work for years, and I do not agree with this statement at all.My understanding (and I have been told this by Govt. people) that it does not matter where you prefab something for the project, weather your guy does it on the job site or off site at your shop. If it is for the DB project you better pay DB wages. Yes it will noe be as easy for them to catch not paying DB, but if you are then you will pay plus more then likely a penalty along with it.Why even take the chance?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Read here:
http://www.dol.gov/whd/recovery/pwrb/Tab16DBCompliance.pdf

Look at section 5.2(1)(3)


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## eastend (Jan 24, 2006)

I concur that prevailing wage/certified payroll is only for work done on site. I think the one priviso is if you set up an off site operation after you are awarded the contract, that is solely dedicated to supplying prefabbed materials to the DB project, that could be subject to prevailing wage.


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## jadleybray (May 2, 2008)

BDB said:


> I have been doing DB work for years, and I do not agree with this statement at all.My understanding (and I have been told this by Govt. people) that it does not matter where you prefab something for the project, weather your guy does it on the job site or off site at your shop. If it is for the DB project you better pay DB wages. Yes it will noe be as easy for them to catch not paying DB, but if you are then you will pay plus more then likely a penalty along with it.Why even take the chance?


You have been misinformed, it ultimatelly up to you to research and find out for your self what the applicable rules are and follow them. Following the DB stipulations is not taking a chance of a penalty, its wise business. Since you have been doing DB work for years, you may have been missing out on lost profits for years, or worse yet, may have lost bids due to overpriced labor rates.


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## DougTheExpert (Nov 5, 2011)

*Davis-Bacon Act*

just Google "Davis-Bacon" and read it yourself.


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## dodgerfan175 (Mar 17, 2010)

In California all work related with a PW project is subject to PW that of course includes any offsite pre-fab. On my last job the concrete contractor had to pay so that concrete delivery people would get PW for deliveries made to that jobsite.


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## BDB (Sep 26, 2008)

jadleybray said:


> You have been misinformed, it ultimatelly up to you to research and find out for your self what the applicable rules are and follow them. Following the DB stipulations is not taking a chance of a penalty, its wise business. Since you have been doing DB work for years, you may have been missing out on lost profits for years, or worse yet, may have lost bids due to overpriced labor rates.


I have researched and have talked to Govt officials and I have found nothing that states what you are saying. I am in no way saying you do not know what you are talking about, but until I can see it in writing I have to play it safe and pay PW on everything. Can you help me out and show where you have read this?





dodgerfan175 said:


> In California all work related with a PW project is subject to PW that of course includes any offsite pre-fab. On my last job the concrete contractor had to pay so that concrete delivery people would get PW for deliveries made to that jobsite.


This is my understanding as well.


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## jadleybray (May 2, 2008)

griz said:


> Read here:
> http://www.dol.gov/whd/recovery/pwrb/Tab16DBCompliance.pdf
> 
> Look at section 5.2(1)(3)


This is the same doc I have gotten my information from. It addresses nearly every situation.

Or in pdf form.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I know that this is somewhat of an old thread but when it comes to the DB wage rates, are these rates supposed to be paid on TOP of what the employee is already making?

Or in other words if I hire an employee at $14 an hour and DB requires me to pay them $19 an hour, do they simply get the difference of $200 a week on a line item or should they be getting $33 an hour?


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