# Electricians in a hurry?



## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

I just took a shellacking from six members here over wiring in the way of project progress.
Yes it's true I was the designee to safely neutralize hot lines in a building that was to receive new wiring anyway.
The electricians were nowhere to be found, we needed to proceed and I'm the guy who made that possible.

Anyhow recently completed a large commercial job, huge kitchen, foyer, etc in a Corporate HQ.
The electricians, two brothers, ran all unshielded cable. In window jambs, on the surface where baseboards go, no nail plates anywhere. Where I'll be shooting nails. In the basement not providing junction box covers.
Not picking up after themselves. 

Job I'm on now none of the various breaker boxes are labelled. Cables barely stapled to the underside of basement joists or just hanging loose. The old cut wires left in place needing to be tested before removal. 
There's electricians, and then there's real electricians.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Yes, there are hacks in all the trades....:thumbsup:


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

griz said:


> Yes, there are hacks in all the trades....:thumbsup:


So true, but I don't see it from plumbers or carpenters where it would be more obvious.
My take is some electricians seem to see themselves as special, apart from accepted practices.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Jughead said:


> So true, but I don't see it from plumbers or carpenters where it would be more obvious.
> My take is some electricians seem to see themselves as special


most are....:whistling


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Some hacks see themselves as special as well. :whistling


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

480sparky said:


> Some hacks see themselves as special as well. :whistling


Give it up Sparky and be glad Iowa has electricity


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Not this again!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Sparkies are top of the food chain, right below Carpenters. ,,:laughing:laughing



_________


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I thought GCs were the top of the food chain...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> I thought GCs were the top of the food chain...




A GC in Cali was first a carpenter.



_________


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> Sparkies are top of the food chain, right below Carpenters. ,,:laughing:laughing
> 
> 
> 
> _________


Yeah we all work together as it should be.

I've always backed up the other trades as a personality disorder lol.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jughead said:


> Give it up Sparky and be glad Iowa has electricity


Thanks for proving my point............ :thumbsup:


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Tomorrow we are going out to a residential account where they had to sue the GC because he didn't pay his subs, and, the "electrician" on the job was a pal of his. 

The electrical inspection failed: no labeling of the circuits and no labeling of the neutrals. Everything is in conduit, so it's not like you can group wiring together based on it being sheathed together. Everything is 12awg. And, there is a ton of shared neutrals. 

So, we are there to ID the circuits and figure out which neutrals go with which circuits, and, of course label everything. 

On some previous visits we found some "unique" wiring and terminations. Plus live uncapped wires in walls. 

Was this electrician a hack? Depends. He certainly wasn't thorough, and, he bailed on the client without finishing the job. 

BTW, the GC is making monthly payments to the HO rather than go to trial. Surprisingly he didn't take the first boat back to China.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> A GC in Cali was first a carpenter.
> 
> 
> 
> _________


....and his name was Jesus?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> ....and his name was Jesus?


Si.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Si.


Señor Wences and Pedro...


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

Good one today, maybe to highlight my point on some licensed electricians in a hurry.

I had noted an apt baseboard elec heater (110 units, bldg is circa1920, 4 stories, with a cavernous basement) wasn't even connected when I removed it to tile the bath floor a few weeks ago. I believe the building was converted to elec baseboard heat about 10 years ago from hydronic.

I needed to reinstall the 2' section so I could finish up the cove base mold. 
Noticed with the heating breakers back on the bx out of the bath floor wasn't hot. So I opened the bedroom baseboard heater (middle of the run) and viola, the bx to the bath had never been connected either.

So it's no wonder the previous tenant "Yeah he mentioned having a problem with it" froze his ass off when in the bathroom for years.
Good news is original installers are still on the books and will be back, that particular wiring to include thermostat is beyond my scope - since another one I checked has white, red, and black in the same wire nut and it works.


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

griz said:


> most are....:whistling


Well put - most but not all, like the ones who staple cable to the underside of joists in unfinished basements.
That's a major NEC infraction but now commonly seen, they're in a hurry.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jughead said:


> ............. staple cable to the underside of joists in unfinished basements.
> That's a major NEC infraction .........


Not always.


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

480sparky said:


> Not always.


True there's talk about it on the electrical forum, something about "strapping".
Best practice would seem to be drilling holes through the center of the joists though.
If a drop ceilings going in stapling to the underside is good, but drilling the holes instead isn't a big deal and easier to route the cable.
I'd prefer a helper if needing to staple, whereas with the holes drilled one man or woman can feed it through. Bear in mind however - I haven't had the need to run cable for a long time and that was in my own house.


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## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

rrk said:


> Didn't they boo the Pope in Philly?
> 
> That big blackout in 2003 hit east of where I live
> 
> The people of NY handled the aftermath of 9/11 also lets not forget




Yup. Can't really remember the last time there was looting around here. 

Philly sucks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

Five Electrocuted in Turk Swimming Pool

Today - Two adults unwisely jumped into the pool to assist the three youths. All five were pronounced DOA at the local hospital. A sixth responder survived.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I used to sweat over the pool electricals when I had an in ground. One little thing, and it's a big thing....


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

hdavis said:


> I used to sweat over the pool electricals when I had an in ground. One little thing, and it's a big thing....


Had to be a lot of amps (speed of volts) going on, a good reason to go with low voltage LED lights.
More likely pool water came in contact with a higher voltage motor circuit that didn't trip a faulty breaker. Quite obviously I'd say.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jughead said:


> Had to be a lot of amps (speed of volts) going on, a good reason to go with low voltage LED lights.
> More likely pool water came in contact with a higher voltage motor circuit that didn't trip a faulty breaker. Quite obviously I'd say.


Lots of amps? :blink:

Speed of volts?


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## kapena (Aug 20, 2004)

480sparky said:


> Lots of amps? :blink:
> 
> Speed of volts?


 Yeah.... you know....It's always those speedy electricians in a hurry, who sometimes mess up by doing too fast of a job hooking up the volts and stuff to make up for all the lost time caused by the other slow-poke tradesmen.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

kapena said:


> Yeah.... you know....It's always those speedy electricians in a hurry, who sometimes mess up by doing too fast of a job hooking up the volts and stuff to make up for all the lost time caused by the other slow-poke tradesmen.


Every electrician know that to slow down the amps, you simply use smaller conduit.

If you have the money, you can install a Variable Amp Speed Control.


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

480sparky said:


> Lots of amps? :blink:
> 
> Speed of volts?


Yeah, it's called current, which is what kills. You ain't no electrician so please stop pretending


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jughead said:


> Yeah, it's called current, which is what kills. You ain't no electrician so please stop pretending




"Ain't no"?


Mike.
_________


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> "Ain't no"?
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _________


Why you always hatin on us hillbillies, Mike?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Why you always hatin on us hillbillies, Mike?




I ain't got no hate'n bone in my body.

Jughead, is that you?










Mike.
_________


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jughead said:


> Yeah, it's called current, which is what kills. You ain't no electrician so please stop pretending


Excuse me, but your* sheer ignorance *is showing.

Not to mention your stupidity.

Seriously. Stop pretending you're even wanting to be an electrician. You're failing miserably. And it's painfully obvious.

What's sad is not only are you constantly doubling-down on your ignorance, you're doing it in front of a national audience.













"Speed of amps". How frikkin' hilarious.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

480sparky said:


> "Speed of amps". How frikkin' hilarious.


extra points for originality

not everyplace has hi-speed 'tricity.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Jughead said:


> More likely pool water came in contact with a higher voltage motor circuit that didn't trip a faulty breaker. Quite obviously I'd say.



Pools it's the lights, hot tubs it's the heaters.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Seems some are running away like scared little girls when water comes near electrickery.

But no one seems to mind their washing machine, their dishwasher, their garbage disposal, their whirlypool, their well pump, their refrigerator's ice-maker, their electric water heaters, their electric pressure washers, furnace-mounted humidifiers, their kitchen sink's Insty-Hots, ...............


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

hdavis said:


> Pools it's the lights, hot tubs it's the heaters.


Makes sense to me, what doesn't is the grounding and how a pool in the earth or ground can remain electrified by live current.
I'm sure a pro here can explain that as it seems to go against theory, or the lack of GFCI's?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jughead said:


> Makes sense to me, what doesn't is the grounding and how a pool in the earth or ground can remain electrified by live current.
> I'm sure a pro here can explain that as it seems to go against theory, or the lack of GFCI's?


What happened? You no longer an electrical engineer? :laughing:

_________________


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> extra points for originality
> 
> not everyplace has hi-speed 'tricity.


your really cool if you have wireless electricity.....:whistling


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

griz said:


> your really cool if you have wireless electricity.....:whistling


 That was a concept by Tesla I believe. 

_________________


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> What happened? You no longer an electrical engineer? :laughing:
> 
> _________________


I see you're still trolling me


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Jughead said:


> Makes sense to me, what doesn't is the grounding and how a pool in the earth or ground can remain electrified by live current.
> I'm sure a pro here can explain that as it seems to go against theory, or the lack of GFCI's?


Oversimplified, ground isn't always ground. The earth's conductivity can vary greatly over just a few feet. The ground rod your service panel is tied to could easily be at a significantly different potential from that of your swimming pool.

The fact that you don't know that is no shame; it's a complex subject. But it does reveal that you don't know as much about electrical theory as you seem to think. Probably best to stick with carpentry. :thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Jughead said:


> Makes sense to me, what doesn't is the grounding and how a pool in the earth or ground can remain electrified by live current.
> I'm sure a pro here can explain that as it seems to go against theory, or the lack of GFCI's?


It goes exactly with theory. It's going through a so so conductor, so you eventually get zero volts once you get down into the dirt. Plastic pool liners are decent insulators, and concrete isn't a good conductor.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Ground is to the rebar surrounding the pool? 

_________________


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Jughead said:


> I see you're still trolling me


You make it so easy, he can't help it


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Ground is to the rebar surrounding the pool?
> 
> _________________


Pool deck rebar, plus metal in contact with the water.

I've seen quite a few pools with improper bonding.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

rrk said:


> You make it so easy, he can't help it


I don't think its fair to place so much blame on Cali Mike either.

I mean, he doesn't even bait the hook - just plops it in the water and jiggles it - and this Jughead jumps on it every time.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Ground is to the rebar surrounding the pool?
> 
> _________________


Is that bonding mat still required? My electrician used to complain about that a lot.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> jumps on it every time.


I had a GF like that...


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> I had a GF like that...


What's the saying? "If you want to catch a big fish, use a big worm"

so, how big was this girlfriend?


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

rrk said:


> You make it so easy, he can't help it


LOL! I luv the give and take here


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> I had a GF like that...




Hey I knew her too!


Mike.
_________


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I don't think its fair to place so much blame on Cali Mike either.
> 
> I mean, he doesn't even bait the hook - just plops it in the water and jiggles it - and this Jughead jumps on it every time.


It's all a hoot smalltownguy, and I'll be watching u too


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> What's the saying? "If you want to catch a big fish, use a big worm"
> 
> so, how big was this girlfriend?


Which part?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Which part?


Can't decide. Go ahead, surprise me...:jester:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> What happened? You no longer an electrical engineer? :laughing......


He stopped Googling his way to wisdom. :whistling


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Can't decide. Go ahead, surprise me...:jester:


"Give me a hand."


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> "Give me a hand."


nope. I just washed mine, and I don't know where yours have been (but I got a purty good idea).:blink:


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

480sparky said:


> He stopped Googling his way to wisdom. :whistling


And always remember I don't hold many electricians in high esteem, and especially not you. Sorry.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jughead said:


> And always remember I don't hold many electricians in high esteem, and especially not you. Sorry.


You have nothing to be sorry for. 'Cept for yourself.


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

hdavis said:


> It goes exactly with theory. It's going through a so so conductor, so you eventually get zero volts once you get down into the dirt. Plastic pool liners are decent insulators, and concrete isn't a good conductor.


At least you made a stab at how a pool in the ground can remain electrified

OTH an actual supposed electrician in Sparky480 doesn't provide anything but BS.

Ya know where I'll find the answer? Google and the electricians forum, not here


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jughead said:


> ...............Ya know where I'll find the answer? Google..............



I rest my case.





"Speed of amps". That's _still _frikkin hilarious. What's next? How many pounds a volt weighs?


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

480sparky said:


> You have nothing to be sorry for. 'Cept for yourself.


Just answer the question sunshine - how does an in - ground electrified pool not trip a breaker such as a GFCI? 5 humans were electrocuted in Turkey in a pool very recently, so if you don't know why not just admit it?

Quite obviously anyone could present themselves as an electrician here, while really working as a cardboard box tech.


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## Jughead (May 31, 2017)

480sparky said:


> I rest my case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Iowa lmfao, send us some corn already. Oh wait, ours is better :laughing:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jughead said:


> At least you made a stab at how a pool in the ground can remain electrified
> 
> OTH an actual supposed electrician in Sparky480 doesn't provide anything but BS.
> 
> Ya know where I'll find the answer? Google and the electricians forum, not here


Well then, your horse being dead an' all - why you still riding it?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Good point.


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