# Tenting?



## spettit_cc (Sep 17, 2010)

I did a job(actually several jobs) for a customer last May and the ceramic tile job that I done is in their laundry room.They called me to their house a couple of weeks ago to come back there and look at the flooring I did and wanting to know what was happening.There's a few pieces of tile that has a crunching sound when you step on them.Only one or two of those show any signs of grout seperation.I screwed cement backerboard down to the subflooring,thinset,layed the tile,and grouted.Could this be that the thinset was just a lil too dry when I layed it or is it possible that it's just tenting?BTW,this room was added on to the house few years back and never had any type of underpinning until this summer,which made me think it could be tenting.They're not mad,but I'm upset knowing that it could be my carelessness that caused it.I'd appreciate any kind of info and comments on this problem.


----------



## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

spettit_cc said:


> I did a job(actually several jobs) for a customer last May and the ceramic tile job that I done is in their laundry room.They called me to their house a couple of weeks ago to come back there and look at the flooring I did and wanting to know what was happening.There's a few pieces of tile that has a crunching sound when you step on them.Only one or two of those show any signs of grout seperation.I screwed cement backerboard down to the subflooring,thinset,layed the tile,and grouted.Could this be that the thinset was just a lil too dry when I layed it or is it possible that it's just tenting?BTW,this room was added on to the house few years back and never had any type of underpinning until this summer,which made me think it could be tenting.They're not mad,but I'm upset knowing that it could be my carelessness that caused it.I'd appreciate any kind of info and comments on this problem.


Does the floor structure meet deflection requirements? 

What type of backer board?

Did you use thinset under the backer board?

What size of tile?

What size notch trowel did you lay the tile with?

What kind of thinset used?

Did you leave a perimeter expansion joint? 

How big of a room?

So many questions, so little time. :biggrin:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*may be your application*

if your thin-set was not mixed properly or you did not WIPE the backs dry before your thin-set was applied- Trowel Gage used -?, you can get this situation with so many different variables.. or a deflection rate problem.... as HS said- not enough information.... 

B.


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

HS345 said:


> Does the floor structure meet deflection requirements?
> 
> What type of backer board?
> 
> ...


Yeah, what Greg asked....

My money (from the little info known) is a combo of no thinset under the CBU, no perimeter gaps and possibly bad thinset (mixed wrong). At least that's what _I_ can presume from your post. In addition, it's a laundry room. If they have one of those new fancy front load washers that spin at very high RPMs, that could hasten the process. All those vibrations are pretty rough on an improperly installed tile floor.


----------



## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

I agree it's most likely no thin set under the backer and to a lesser degree no perimeter expansion space.

By cc's description of how he installed the floor looks like he omitted that critical step. (the thin set under).

Jaz


----------



## spettit_cc (Sep 17, 2010)

well.....I guess I see the problem now,but I've never,and I mean never,seen thinset being put under the backer board with guys I've worked for before!Oh well,I guess I know what's gotta happen,but this is the 1st time this has happened to me on floors I've laid.the room btw is like a 18'x21'.Thanks fellas for the info,I'll def. change the way I lay tile now


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

TCNA Method F144-09.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

spettit_cc said:


> well.....I guess I see the problem now,but I've never,and I mean never,seen thinset being put under the backer board with guys I've worked for before!Oh well,I guess I know what's gotta happen,but this is the 1st time this has happened to me on floors I've laid.the room btw is like a 18'x21'.Thanks fellas for the info,I'll def. change the way I lay tile now


 
Thin set under backerboard?  Critical? Uh oh!

I failed to do that on my bath. Leveled and braced some joists , rand 4x4 across the bottom under the floor, new subfloor and plywood, tarpaper, and nailed the cement board every 6 inches. Heheh, my tile got crooked on me, but they are stationary. It was a first for me.

We talking a lot smaller room here (my bath) though.


----------



## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Boman---The thinset is there to fill any voids---hollow spots under the backer are not good--

Durrock is much more forgiving than Hardi Backer--Durrock is flexible and will follow the contours of the subfloor---HardiBacker is stiff and springy---leaving hollows if not filled--first time a heavy person steps on that hollow spot---------Cracked tile or the thinset just gives up and the tile comes loose.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I see what ytou are saying, Mike. I guess I didn't think of the possible voids since so much was replaced. Might be a wee bit off level, but I got it as straight as I knew how. These are 12" tiles and a small room approximately 40 sq. ft or so. So far, so good in regard to breaking.


----------



## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

You are probably fine--especially if you didn't use Hardi---It's just the right way to do it--

As you know--$20 worth of thinset lets me sleep better--I hate failures--just hate them.


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hell, a $5 bag of thinset will do. You just want to fully support the CBU, that's it. You don't even care if the bond breaks between the thinset & CBU.


----------



## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

The proper installation procedures are in all the instructions and on all of the manufacturers websites to say nothing of all of the legitimate how-to books. Hell it might even be in the TCNA Handbook.

And still.................:sad:

What is it that makes a professional anyway? 

A business card, a pickup truck, a portable radio and a beer cooler is all it takes these days I guess.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

What kind of underpinningdid they have put in?


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Bud, I this is not something I would do for a ho, but I did learn something from the experience. The wife will only walk a plank to the toilet across open floor joists for a short time before things start getting a little chilly. Or was that heated. Things got very uncomfortable. She also likes the shower to functional around the clock too. :laughing:


----------



## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> Bud, I this is not something I would do for a ho, but I did learn something from the experience. The wife will only walk a plank to the toilet across open floor joists for a short time before things start getting a little chilly.


Sounds as if you may need to stop by your local Goodwill Store and get yourself a cheap blanket for the dog house.



> She also likes the shower to functional around the clock too.


I think she may be asking way too much from life.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> I think she may be asking way too much from life.


I could have used you in my corner at the time! :laughing:

I try to explain when you are dealing with an old house, things are not always cut and dry.

Especially when attempting something you know very little about. :blink:


----------



## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

:laughing::laughing::laughing:Assure your wife that things rarely go supreme when dealing with older properties. It's just the nature of the animal. Remodelling older properties can cause a divorce in some cases.

Hey wait!!!






*Note to self: (Honey let's remodel the whole house starting now, what do you say?*


----------

