# Cust won't pay...can I remove my installed materials



## PGD (May 20, 2009)

Why is she unhappy with the Fence? Did you do a suckass job on it?! C'mon all you guys jump on the homeowner without finding out why she suddenly doesn't wanna pay for the rest. Show us pictures or at least be honest about exactly what the homeowner wants you to fix or do better.

Then I'll tell you what you should really do! But first MORE DETAILS!

For all we know this a Craigs list contractor! It's not like Builtbymac, RBS or Silvertree (to name a few) is getting stiffed! If it were then it would be more likely a bad HO than a poor job......


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

nEighter said:


> /\ that is what I was thinking.. thought sparky would lend a hand at coming up with a way to have freak electrical fire that would burn down the fence :laughing:


I can burn anything down with nothing more than a screwdriver.


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

As has been said her ad nauseum No you cannot remove her fence. lien small claims court etc is the only remedy you have. You were also a bonehead IMO for letting the HO hold half till the end. You need to design your payment schedule to stay ahead of the costs incurred and no more than 10% at SUBSTANTIAL completion.


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## Metrojoebarbs (Mar 10, 2007)

*Nice try...*

Dollar to a doughnut you've all been talking to the HO.

Nic job :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

Well, if it was a HO, they now know we are voting for legal action and placing a lien on their property. Their move.


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## Metrojoebarbs (Mar 10, 2007)

rjconstructs said:


> Well, if it was a HO, they now know we are voting for legal action and placing a lien on their property. Their move.


I could be wrong, but as I started to read the thread I said to myself "we all know the routines and protocals you must take to get your money."

Not to mention this is Blue Sky Custom Improvement's first post and just registerd yesterday.

Like I said I could be wrong...:whistling:whistling


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Material laying around on the job site belongs to the person who has paid for it.
> 
> Once it's installed, it's considered real estate and belongs to the property owner. Whether or not if you've been paid makes no difference.
> 
> If you go rip up half the fence, you would then become a criminal.


Bingo!

Same in VT and NY


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## wingman67 (Jun 10, 2009)

*Liablility if fence gone*

I would bet if you took any part of the fence anf then anything happened... break in, vandalism, dog runs away, should could make that an additional civil case. 

Too many sleazy lawyers out there.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

enforcer said:


> REMOVE THAT FENCE IMMEDIATELY...ANYONE calls you, deny it. do NOT let her get away with this..i did this once a while back and did'nt get arrested..the police called me and i said i had no idea what they are talking about and refused to answer any further questions.i gave them the number of my lawyer and that was the end of it.



This is why we DO undestand one another...........


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## English Roofer (Dec 22, 2008)

Over here if she hasn't paid for the job te materials are still yours but if you go on her property you will be trespassing so the only route is the courts.
You could pay someone else to take the fence down!
Cheers
dave


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Same here in NJ Dave, Court is the only efficient, quick way to get your money. My lawyer said putting a lien on the property is a waste of time and money when it comes to homeowners. It can work when the property must be sold or will be sold and a substantial amount of money is involved.

In addition, to take someone to court and get all your money and more for additional damages, you have to have evidence, you have to have a contract, everything must be done by the book.



English Roofer said:


> Over here if she hasn't paid for the job te materials are still yours but if you go on her property you will be trespassing so the only route is the courts.
> You could pay someone else to take the fence down!
> Cheers
> dave


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## PGD (May 20, 2009)

How about some diplomacy first!

You guys surprise me, ME! the guy who was arrested for knocking out a foreman in the 80's for getting in my face about a job!

I don't believe the homeowner just wakes up one day and says; "I wanna screw someone over today!.... I know, I can welch on that contractor so he can terrorize my house!"

Their was a mis-understanding somewhere, and for someone to even ASK if they can take a fence out of someone's home, makes me wonder who we are listening too.

Ouch you ain't a very nice and/or bright guy, and it's not for not getting more money upfront or in progress payments, It's cause you had to ask about a basic moral question.

For shame sir!

And Enforcer...... Your even worse!


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## DQM (Mar 7, 2009)

If you do think about doing something you dont ask or tell on public fourm.

I dont even tell my wife. Just do what needs to be done.:whistling


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## JamesKB2 (May 13, 2009)

Real Estate Law 101....

There are fixtures, and there is chattel. Materials or possessions that are not affixed (free hold) are chattel. They belong to the property owner, but are not part of the real property. Furniture, cars, the 'fridge, your clothes are all chattel.

Fixtures are affixed items to the real estate or it's improvements. Fixtures are things like doors, lights, installed shelves, even window blinds or their hardware. An installed fence, once installed, is a fixture and has become an improvement to the real estate.

So, once you installed the fence, it's part of the real property. You can't repossess it without a court order. If the materials were just laying in the yard, then that's a different issue since it's chattel.


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## ampman (Apr 1, 2009)

as good as that would make you feel it will only make it worse


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Take it easy, they guys just blowing off a little steam and having fun. We are all professional here :whistling:laughing: and most do know the consequences for trespassing and property damage :shutup:

To answer your other question: *I don't believe the homeowner just wakes up one day and says; "I wanna screw someone over today!"* :laughing: Maybe this is news to you, but there are people who can not wait to wake up and screw someone... as a matter a fact they live for that... you just been lucky you haven't met anyone like that :thumbsup: These people exist not only in the contracting business, business owners come across them in any businesses from time to time. No matter what you do for them, you cannot please them 




PGD said:


> How about some diplomacy first!
> 
> You guys surprise me, ME! the guy who was arrested for knocking out a foreman in the 80's for getting in my face about a job!
> 
> ...


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Yes we do, especialy growing up in Brooklyn, everybody paid for services rendered, because the services came from the yield of our sweat and labor :laughing:



MALCO.New.York said:


> This is why we DO undestand one another...........


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## Ouch (Jun 10, 2009)

The feedback is virtually unanimous. "A fence layed is a fence played." Thank you all.

I am not a "poser." I am a contractor in Ohio. And the fact is, I would not have had the guts to pull the fence. But damn it feels good to fantasize about.

In my target community this would have created too much negative publicity......and would pretty much be a business suicide move.

I guaranteed the fence to be "suitable for retaining a pet dog" by a certain date. In fact, I completed the entire project prior to that date.....and explained that the latches she selected would require that they be LOCKED to retain all but the tiniest of pets. (those silly gravity drop gates that look great but even a slight sag will make pretty much useless)

She brought in her daughters HUGE blood hound. Dog got out. Hmmm.

I went over when she was not home.....locked the gate........and leaned against it at a 45 degree angle with my full body weight of 230 lbs. Gate held. There is no way even that enormous dog got out if the gate was locked. 

She's playing me and it makes me madder than hell. Folks....this was a "schedule filler" due to another project's delay.....I built this very nice fence for $15 per LF.........normally I get $35 per LF. Her half down didn't even cover materials. 

Did I mention that I was madder than hell........well I'm even angrier now after typing this.........


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## Ouch (Jun 10, 2009)

PGD.....

Given that I now have a great deal more info upon which to judge YOU than you did me; I'd like to point out that perhaps it is *YOU who is not very bright...and certainly YOU who is not nice.* Let me modify that a little.........in review of your posts....I can say that it is my opinion that you are most definitely NOT BRIGHT......scratch the "perhaps".

Let me illustrate a couple of errors in your logic.

My original question in this OPEN FORUM AMONG FELLOW TRADESMEN was related to what my legal rights are. Did I say that I would exercise those rights should they be mine? No. It was a simple question which did not include a bunch of facts that were *irrelevant* to that question. It was cut and dry....black and white. By the way, friend, if the input from most of the respondents is accurate, the legal term would be "res ipsa loquitur."

You assumed that I had no other recourse. The fact is that my contract is VERY detailed.....and states that in the event I have to pursue collections, she is "liable for all filing fees, attorney fees, agency fees, court costs, and/or other related costs associated with the collection action."

PGD.....I stepped into a room of people who should embrace me, and you assigned shame to me without much consideration........for no reasonable or logical reason. We contractors are an ego-driven breed....I'm not sure...but I'm fairly confident of what you are made of....I won't claim it to be fact...and I won't state it here.........but I'll just say this one thing....and only because underneath it all I am as immature as anyone......on second thought....I won't say what I was going to. Bud, I don't want to act like YOU.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Ouch said:


> PGD.....*I stepped into a room of people who should embrace me, and you assigned shame to me without much consideration*........for no reasonable or logical reason.




Depak Chopra, Oprah and 12 Step meetings are NOT to be found here!!!!


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## Mike- (Aug 20, 2011)

I would become very good friends with the neighbor of that fence. Lol.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Ouch said:


> She claimed that NOT paying was the "*Christian thing to do"* as it would teach me a lesson. Yea, she was one of those.


Those who say that are the biggest scumbags out there.


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## essrmo (May 2, 2007)

Ouch said:


> Just an update.....she paid. The problem was not that she was not happy with the fence....she was. She actually kinda raved about the fence.
> 
> The issue was that I promised to have it ready to contain a dog by a certain date. And I did......but the gates were temporarily held shut with basic latches and not the special latches she wanted. I installed the specialty latches the next day.
> 
> ...


glad to hear it worked out. My suggeston wood bee to write it off at the end of the year. this at least gives you back some percentage of what you wold have lost. you can't write it off if you don't bill them, so keep up with the papertrail. 
no harm done, you also get closure. it's just business.


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