# Kerdi shower kit



## woodbutchr

I've got a shower remodel coming up & I have always used the pre slope, and PVC liner deal. I want to try the Kerdi kit but have some hesitation about it. 
What are the pros and cons of Kerdi? I just find it hard to not have the safety net of a PVC liner underneath. I also spoke with my plumber today & he said he had done a couple of them but didn't favor them that much. 
Does Kerdi guarantee their kits? Say I get a Kerdi rep to come out and take a picture / inspection after I get it installed, if it leaks after his blessing will they pay for damages? 
Sorry bout all the questions, I'm just not 100 % sold on it yet.


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## tileman2000

You don't need the liner because Kerdi is waterproof. The only con I see is the price.

That said, your way of pre sloping and using a liner works perfect, assuming the weep holes are considered during the mud bed install.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

woodbutchr said:


> I've got a shower remodel coming up & I have always used the pre slope, and PVC liner deal. I want to try the Kerdi kit but have some hesitation about it.
> What are the pros and cons of Kerdi? I just find it hard to not have the safety net of a PVC liner underneath. I also spoke with my plumber today & he said he had done a couple of them but didn't favor them that much.
> Does Kerdi guarantee their kits? Say I get a Kerdi rep to come out and take a picture / inspection after I get it installed, if it leaks after his blessing will they pay for damages?
> Sorry bout all the questions, I'm just not 100 % sold on it yet.


If it leaks it won't be the Kerdi kit so don't worry about warrenty. I have put a few in and I don't use them any more. Way too time consuming and I don't like orange.


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## woodbutchr

Price, I was quoted $450.00 for a 32 x 60 complete kit. Does that sound bout right? 
Time consuming? I thought they were supposed to be quicker?


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## country_huck

Quicker yes but you loose the opportunity to make money on the mortar bed installation. 

Do a thin bed installation and use the Kerdi on top if you want or even better noble TS


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## ohiohomedoctor

Use kerdi board walls. Idk how it could get much quicker.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Use kerdi board walls. Idk how it could get much quicker.


Wedi fundo


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## ohiohomedoctor

Not sure its quicker but I have never actually installed the fundo. I tried getting a local rep and got the run around despite John Whipple being very helpful in getting me hooked up with corporate.


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## Aura Detail

PVC liners aren't nearly as effective. They prevent water from reaching the subfloor, but that's about it. Schluter systems stop water before it can penetrate anything, including drywall, lumber, etc. 

I always price them into my jobs, and only do without them if the homeowner insists and wants to save money. I start at $1,500 installed.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Not sure its quicker but I have never actually installed the fundo. I tried getting a local rep and got the run around despite John Whipple being very helpful in getting me hooked up with corporate.


Its about one 3rd quicker with the Fundo kit over the Wedi Kit. Reps around here are great. they will come out to every job if need be. Im doing a riolito currently with a niche the same width as the drain. should look pretty cool when its done. i have also found their customer service to be much better than schluter. I still use Schluter profile though. they have a massive selection compared to wedi.


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## ohiohomedoctor

Its all about the customer service. A good sales rep can make a decent product line great.


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## Unger.const

I ONLY use the kerdi system and love it! If a customer wanted me to use cement boards and liners for a shower then I would pass on the job. The rep here is great and Johnny on the spot for answers. The liner systems are a "water in,water out management system" meaning that they expect the water to go behind the tile and need to have a back up plan to prevent water from going into the structure of the home. And lots of them are installed wrong mostly nails/screws in the liner. So your back up plan is compromised. And if you really really put in the "water in,water out system" correctly then it should take twice as long as kerdi system. And most people cut corners instead and say" it will be fine what I don't know or understand (I've built tons of them this way why would I need to learn anything new type of attitude) just take the customers money and shut up". After all do you pride yourself as a skilled craftsman and twitch when things aren't done correctly? Or do you work for the construction firm of Dewey, Cheatem and Howe?

The kerdi system is a "water out management system" the rep here in Oregon either answers his cell phone or calls back within HOURS of your call (I would use his name here but I think that violates CT rules) and if that's not enough Schluter has a three day coarse about every other month to teach you how to install the system. You pay to get there and they will put you up and feed you 'steak dinner even'(or at least that's how they did it a couple of years ago in L.A.) now they teach a class in Reno also for the west coast. The guy that teaches the class is a wealth full of information!!! They have a part called stump the professor and there wasn't anything about tile or mortar products he couldn't answer. I learned more in three days then i did in three years about tile/mortar/cement!

Short of making a commercial for them I'll shut up now. (My wife says I brag about it so much I should go to work for company) I'm sure there are lots of other products that do similar things but I have yet to use them so I won't give my two cents on things that I do not have knowledge about. But i do know that many of them are trying to copy schluters products.

Here is a current bath remodel using kerdi shower system with kerdi board and detra


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## angus242

By ONLY using a single system, you limit yourself, your options and ultimately, what you can do for your customers.


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## Unger.const

Angus 
I have looked into some other systems during demo and training classes but I feel as if those ones did not excede the outcome of the kerdi system. And I'm not here to bad mouth products that have not got up to full steam (pun intended) of kerdi shower (or steam shower) systems.

AND you make a good point about limiting yourself to things!


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## Rich D.

woodbutchr said:


> Price, I was quoted $450.00 for a 32 x 60 complete kit. Does that sound bout right?
> Time consuming? I thought they were supposed to be quicker?


Bout right.


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## Rich D.

Where is everyone getting there kerdi?


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## Splinter

Rich D. said:


> Where is everyone getting there kerdi?


Rich, if you're anywhere near East Brunswick, check out Cancos. They keep it in stock (colored drains are usually special order) and prices are decent.


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## Rich D.

Splinter said:


> Rich, if you're anywhere near East Brunswick, check out Cancos. They keep it in stock (colored drains are usually special order) and prices are decent.


Thats like a 40 minute drive on the turnpike


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## Kent Whitten

Rich D. said:


> Thats like a 40 minute drive on the turnpike


You can get everything from amazon.com and don't have to drive anywhere.


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## rrk

Rich D. said:


> Thats like a 40 minute drive on the turnpike


So it's only a few miles then 

Oddly enough there are no authorized internet distributors of Kerdi. I called Schluter after having purchased a kit online and receiving the wrong drain. They said many online sellers make up their own kits picking and choosing what to include or not include, basically buyer beware.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

Rich D. said:


> So basically the kerdi system including the cement board and thinset is about 100 bucks cheaper than the wedi system. But with kerdi your going to add atleast 2 extra hours to the install time so it ends up even really.
> 
> That schluter board is so pricey i wont even touch it.
> 
> Looking forward to the wedi pics tommorow bc!


Have you spoken to your rep to see if they can be ordered anywhere in your area. 



Dennis Lynch
Mobile: (862) 214-1421
E-Mail: [email protected]
States: Metropolitan New York, New Jersey, Eastern Pennsylvania, Delaware


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## woodbutchr

I purchased the kerdi 32x60 kit, thinset and cement board for $560.00 total.
I figure that to be $336 cheaper than the Wedi according to your figures.
Maybe I get it cheaper here than where you are at, idunno.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

woodbutchr said:


> I purchased the kerdi 32x60 kit, thinset and cement board for $560.00 total.
> I figure that to be $336 cheaper than the Wedi according to your figures.
> Maybe I get it cheaper here than where you are at, idunno.


The figures I'm quoting are retail. Me or you don't buy them at retail.


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## woodbutchr

Okay, I got cha. I don't do enough high end bathrooms to justify the price. I'm in ******* country around here. :laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman

woodbutchr said:


> Okay, I gotta cha. I don't do enough high end bathrooms to justify the price. I'm in ******* country around here. :laughing:


It is a hard up sell I won't lie. if they want a shower with a tiled pan it's the only way I will go now and the wedi boards are pretty cheap so I don't mind using them on bath surrounds and floors. What's nice is its a product that they don't see in lowes or HD. Every customer I went to when I used ditra and Kerdi said I have seen that in HD. Not quite sure why schluter sold their souls to sell through them.


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## Rich D.

The only scluter items in my home cheapos are ditra and some bullcrap little pack of kerdi band.

Barri why dont you like the schluter pre sloped pan for tile on floor?


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## Splinter

Rich D. said:


> The only scluter items in my home cheapos are ditra and some bullcrap little pack of kerdi band.
> 
> Barri why dont you like the schluter pre sloped pan for tile on floor?


It's almost never the same size of the existing shower, so I'd have to cut it down which screws up the level perimeter... It dents easily even with a heavy folded canvas drop cloth over it... Most homes are never exactly level, so I'd be doing some repair to the subfloor to get it right for the foam pan. 

Mud- No such worries. 


I use Kerdi all the time. I only use the pan when some homeowner bought it for a DIY project and got in over their head.


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## Rich D.

Splinter said:


> It's almost never the same size of the existing shower, so I'd have to cut it down which screws up the level perimeter... It dents easily even with a heavy folded canvas drop cloth over it... Most homes are never exactly level, so I'd be doing some repair to the subfloor to get it right for the foam pan.
> 
> Mud- No such worries.
> 
> I only use the pan when some homeowner bought it for a DIY project and got in over their head.


 I actually like scluters pan. Just cut it down to whatever size the shower is. I always add another layer of ply and level it out to make it more ridgid.

I didnt have a problem with the foam denting. And if it did theres no worries it gets covered with kerdi anyway.


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## angus242

But unless you cut the Kerdi pan exactly the same on all side, you no longer have a level perimeter. Sure, you can fill gaps with deck mud but....

I have tried all kinds of pans and I keep going back to cement. You never have any issues using it. Mapei Mapecem Premix and it's at least 2 days faster than standard sand/portland mix.


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## Rich D.

Whst is the major importance to have that level perimeter?

The schluter pan i used (4x4) i think didnt have a level perimeter.

So the wedi pans will have the same issues?


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## angus242

All presloped pans have the same issue.

If you're pitched to the center of the pan, the perimeter being level allows the same sized tiles to sit above it. The eye can tell if you have one grout joint 8" up on the left and 9" up on the right.

Details....


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## Splinter

Angus, what do you mean 2 days faster than sand/cement?

I usually save mudding the shower floor for later in the afternoon so I dont have to avoid the area all day... When I come in the following morning, the mud is rock solid, no problems walking on it. 
Are you concerned about moisture still in there? I suppose it could be an issue, but I leave the kerdi off the floor until ready for tile, so it still gets a day or two to dry out. I dont think I would worry if I had to cover right away though.


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## angus242

Yes, it's the 72 hour deal that manufacturer's say is the proper amount of cure time until waterproofing can happen.

I'm not gonna get involved in arguments either way. Mapecem Premixed and it's ready to receive any waterproofing in 16 hours, and I get the blessing of Mapei on that.


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## Splinter

angus242 said:


> I'm not gonna get involved in arguments either way..


Silly man... you must be mistaken... I'm not TNT....


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## alboston

I am just used to using the kerdi system but the Wedi system looks interesting. Not too sure on the sealant the Wedi uses for the joints but I guess it works. I think the schluter drain system is the best I have used.


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## MAULEMALL

Rich D. said:


> The only scluter items in my home cheapos are ditra and some bullcrap little pack of kerdi band.
> 
> Barri why dont you like the schluter pre sloped pan for tile on floor?


Canada and soon to US
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/kerdi-shower-kit-48-x-48-in/928352


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## MAULEMALL

Oh yea they have a contest going on if you want to enter...
(Somebody call John)

http://www.ditra25.com/


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## angus242

Splinter said:


> Silly man... you must be mistaken... I'm not TNT....


Sorry. Poor word choice.

Discussions....:laughing:


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## Premier_929

I think the use of kerdi membrane is superior to filling seams. You can actually take a shower without tile and the membrane is water tight, that's a great feature. As for the pan and drain, I've never had anything easier. I usually run mud floor under pan so it's nice and level, and the seal around the drain gets thin set down and is totally water tight.

IMO.. its worth the extra time.. And it's cheaper. You don't need Kerdi boards, i use durrock, thin set and fiber mesh tape seams, couple bags unmodified thin set $15 each. 

.. Its no brainer


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## woodbutchr

Well I got it installed today, don't really have an opinion about it yet I guess. I know it took me almost 5 hours to install it by myself! :blink: That sucked, got tedious toward the end. As usual when I pick up a trowel I tend to get it all over me :laughing:
We'll see I reckon....


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## Rich D.

Splinter said:


> Screw the Kerdi tray... Mud the floor with the kerdi drain and buy a roll of fabric.


I like that idea!!!


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## country_huck

Splinter said:


> Screw the Kerdi tray... Mud the floor with the kerdi drain and buy a roll of fabric.


I use a mud bed with the Kerdi drain and noble TS for the fabric instead of Kerdi on all my showers. Never had an issue to this point.


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## Rich D.

country_huck said:


> I use a mud bed with the Kerdi drain and noble TS for the fabric instead of Kerdi on all my showers. Never had an issue to this point.


Have you ever used noble wall seal?


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## smeagol

I have always use metal lath in my preslope bed. I have seen others omit it. Do you?


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## Jdub2083

Splinter said:


> Screw the Kerdi tray... Mud the floor with the kerdi drain and buy a roll of fabric.


I think that will be the way I go. I've done mud pans before, and like them much better than the foam pan that dents like crazy.


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## Rich D.

Do you guys use cement and sand or a product like Mapei mapecem topping premix?

Cement you should wait a weekend to dry out but the mapei product is good to waterproof in 18 hours.


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## woodbutchr

I finally finished up today & got paid so all is well........ so far, still yet to see bout the Kerdi deal. 
I however did notice that water pooled up in the center of the floor! WTH? What part of pre-slope pan don't I understand? Reckon its where I stood in the center of it to lay the tile on the walls? That's the only thing I can think of. 
I agree with yall that I probably won't do another Kerdi. I'm old school anyways but may still use the Kerdi walls. The drain was a cakewalk too. 
Anyway I'm paid up & the customers happy.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

Hey rich I will get them pics of the shower up in a few days. Been down the beach the last 10 days so ain't had a chance to do it yet.


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## Rich D.

BCConstruction said:


> Hey rich I will get them pics of the shower up in a few days. Been down the beach the last 10 days so ain't had a chance to do it yet.


Hey thanks for remembering! Ill look forward to it! Enjoy you vacation.


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## Splinter

Rich D. said:


> Do you guys use cement and sand or a product like Mapei mapecem topping premix?
> 
> Cement you should wait a weekend to dry out but the mapei product is good to waterproof in 18 hours.


I usually just use sand and cement, or a bag of Sakrete Sand Mix with some extra sand mixed in. I leave the Kerdi off the floor and tile all the walls first (except first course). Im slow, so by the time Im ready to do the floor, it's been a couple days.


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## country_huck

Rich D. said:


> Have you ever used noble wall seal?


No I haven't I usually use a hybrid system of the shluter drain and the noble TS on the floor ran up about 6" above curb and a liquid membrane on the walls like aqua defense or hydro ban. 

I use noble TS on the wall and ceilings for steam showers. 

As for the mud I use a sand and cement mix from Mapie. However I have finally got access to laticrete so I will be using there deck mud with 3701 admixture from now on.


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## angus242

Why not stick with Mapecem Premixed? Cures so much faster.


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## Splinter

I cant get it locally...


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## ohiohomedoctor

I hate when you build a great shower then the client murders it by selecting a cheap basco door..


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## Tech Dawg

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I hate when you build a great shower then the client murders it by selecting a cheap basco door..


So true.. I install quite a bit of the Basco BiPass doors with Swanstone installs and that seems to be a good match. 
When it comes to a nice tile shower, I always recomend the Basco Celesta (3/8" heavy, framless enclosures) or better.


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## ohiohomedoctor

Our local glass company is amazing. We get a really great discount and can get clients frameless euro enclosures for not much more than some of those basco or kohler units.


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## angus242

Splinter said:


> I cant get it locally...


I was asking country because he said he already used Mapei.


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## ohiohomedoctor

I installed a kerdi shower kit today in Springboro, Ohio with kerdi board walls. This shower has a thermasol steam unit too. All I could think about was that picture jw posted with the melted kerdi board.

After much more research I could not find any other negative comments about kerdi board and steam not being compatible so I decided it was the best approach moving forward.

By the way Kerdi fix is perhaps the greatest advancement in sealants since silicone. The stuff is simply amazing!


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## angus242

I would not use Kerdi anything in a steam situation. Too many other proven products and too many posted issues with Kerdi steam installs.


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## angus242

Kerdi-Fix is pretty good stuff. Noble-Sealant smells better :laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman

angus242 said:


> Have you seen Dawg's suggestion of the hawk when grouting walls?


Nope but that's a great idea. I will do that on the next one.


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## angus242

He's got a detailed post somewhere. Maybe he (or someone) can link to it.


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## Tech Dawg

Its somewhere in the thread, Tech Dawg's Tile Top... I dunno how to post links from my phone.
I read through that one and laughed pretty hard at some stuff :laughing:


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## sycamorebob

angus242 said:


> Kerdi has a listed PERM rating of .75. That is at ASTM E96 B. If tested at a more critical ASTM E96 E, Kerdi is actually 1.27.
> 
> That's why no steam installation usage for me.



Question, what type of waterproofing and backer do you prefer in a steam shower? I had my first call for one today.

Thanks Patrick


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## ohiohomedoctor

I am using kerdi board on one now. Everyone has their own opinion. Angus will say noble ts sheets.


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## ohiohomedoctor

BCConstruction said:


> Nope but that's a great idea. I will do that on the next one.


I have also used my drywall pan and even a 4 inch knife at times to assist the grout into tricky areas.


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## angus242

sycamorebob said:


> Question, what type of waterproofing and backer do you prefer in a steam shower? I had my first call for one today.
> 
> Thanks Patrick


Don't take my word for it. Do the research yourself. Find out what membrane will give you < 1 PERM with ASTM E96 E.

I will not use a foam board that has the opportunity to delaminate. Steam is a different beast than moisture.


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## angus242

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Angus will say noble ts sheets.


Hey, the site is now so automated, I don't even need to reply to questions anymore :thumbup:

And it's NobleSeal TS (or sold as DalSeal at Daltile).


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## sycamorebob

Thanks Angus.... Good advice, i always do my own research. Never had a call on a steam shower before today. Before reading your post i thought Kerdi was the way to go, now I must research more.

Always a lot of good info on this site:thumbup:

Thanks Patrick


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## ohiohomedoctor

I was guaranteed by a schluter rep that this meets every applicable astm rating necessary. Around here they have a much better support system in place than any other product line.


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## Inner10

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I was guaranteed by a schluter rep that this meets every applicable astm rating necessary. Around here they have a much better support system in place than any other product line.


Never trust a salesman...ever...


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## The Coastal Craftsman

Whats the issue steam is causing with the kerdi boards? Is it the heat from the steam deforming it?


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## angus242

BCConstruction said:


> Whats the issue steam is causing with the kerdi boards? Is it the heat from the steam deforming it?


At some point, there was a report of the fabric face delaminating. I trust Schluter addressed this. I don't scour every picture on the internet to try and slander Schluter.

I think there is a time and place to use foam boards. Steam shower isn't one that I feel is appropriate. That's all.


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## ohiohomedoctor

Im by no means a schluter fan boy but the only documented failure I have ever seen was due to the steam outlet not extending past the level of the substrate and being installed too close to the inside corner. Thus the steam output directly onto the side wall and melted the substrate. 

This was one case of poor installation and most likely an overated steam generator.

The thermasol pro we are installing is very specific about installation guidlines and when done properly the kerdi board is not exposed to much heat at all if any.

The other issue is perm ratings which depends who you talk to and what astm guidline fits your argument.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

From what I hear WEDI board foam won't melt or delaminate with direct contact with steam but it needs to be 2" to be used in a steam room. I have yet to do a steam room in the US so I ain't looked into why the WEDI board needs to be 2".


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## overanalyze

Anyone ever use the finpann waterproof panels? 

http://www.finpan.com/backer-board/propanel.php

Menards is stocking them for $19 bucks a piece....didn't know how it compares to the wedi/Kerdi panels.


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## r4r&r

Well I just did my first Kerdi shower. I'll say I loved the pan and the drain.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

overanalyze said:


> Anyone ever use the finpann waterproof panels?
> 
> http://www.finpan.com/backer-board/propanel.php
> 
> Menards is stocking them for $19 bucks a piece....didn't know how it compares to the wedi/Kerdi panels.


Interesting. Looks exactly like wedi board :blink: what size was that panel?


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## tjbnwi

BCConstruction said:


> Interesting. Looks exactly like wedi board :blink: what size was that panel?


The link to Menards ad;

http://www.menards.com/main/search.html?search=finpan&sf_categoryHierarchy=

The washer look like Wedi's also.

Tom


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## The Coastal Craftsman

tjbnwi said:


> The link to Menards ad;
> 
> http://www.menards.com/main/search.html?search=finpan&sf_categoryHierarchy=
> 
> The washer look like Wedi's also.
> 
> Tom


Same product
Cheaper
Better warranty

Looks like I might try this stuff out if I can find it local to me.


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