# bidding interior and exterior?



## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

I recently got into a conversation with another painting contractor about pricing. He claims he paints exterior (body only no trim 1 coat) for 1.00 sq. foot. of wall space, Material and labor. I told him if he is doing that there is no way i can compete with him. He then told me he charges .50 sq. foot for interior wall square footage. Wow. How do i compete with that. I know all over the U.S. prices are different. However, is anyone else that cheep or anywhere near it? I am in illinois. ANy other midwesterners here?


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Traditions said:


> I recently got into a conversation with another painting contractor about pricing. He claims he paints exterior (body only no trim 1 coat) for 1.00 sq. foot. of wall space, Material and labor. I told him if he is doing that there is no way i can compete with him. He then told me he charges .50 sq. foot for interior wall square footage. Wow. How do i compete with that. I know all over the U.S. prices are different. However, is anyone else that cheep or anywhere near it? I am in illinois. ANy other midwesterners here?


Thats quick takeoff estimating, and is fairly competitive after adding in everything to almost all of the east coast. 1 per square on the outside, not including windows, doors, fascia, soffit, etcetcetc. Comes to about 1500 one coat on a standard 1100 footage home. Including paint, which is one 5 at a cost of roughly 90... 1400, one day job. Why can't you compete with that?  Most square foot guys charge more for trim than walls, and round up footage. Like the exterior, 30 foot of wall with a max rise of 22 feet, that wall would be charged at 30 X 22, not exact with the rise built in.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

i guess the exterior bid is ok figuring not counting trim, soffits, etc. However, i think .50 square foot is low for interior new construction. 10x10 room=100sqft ceiling, 360sqft walls total 460 sq.ft. That would come out to 230 bucks to paint the room material and all! by the time i prime it and put two coats of paint on it I am way into that 230 dollars.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Traditions said:


> i guess the exterior bid is ok figuring not counting trim, soffits, etc. However, i think .50 square foot is low for interior new construction. 10x10 room=100sqft ceiling, 360sqft walls total 460 sq.ft. That would come out to 230 bucks to paint the room material and all! by the time i prime it and put two coats of paint on it I am way into that 230 dollars.


Not counting trim and doors... most guys that price per square.. the .50 is one coat, half that for a second, 1 something per linear for trim and more for doors. It works out and allows people to accept or pass on "trim packages" and etc. Those guys that sorta walk through a house and halfazz look at things? Those are the ones counting doors and getting a rough size of the rooms - 

50 per square, plus 25 for second coat, `1.20 per linear, 100 per door w/frame, 2 doors per room... that 230 is now 600ish, for a 10X10.

NEW construction is a little different anyhow, most of those guys are working under the pockets of the builder, and normally get really cheapo prices to complete the house, there are some guys here that make a living at it, but barely... builders here start around 1.20 to finish per square footage of the house, not walls... the spec homes get painted for about 2400.00 interior.

Oh ya, and if he really is painting everything for those prices, including trim, etc... Kill him.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

1.20 per floor square footage. That is just for walls right? Thats how everyone around here does their bids. I think it is so stupid to bid floor sq footage. I have one builder that always wants me to do floor sq footage. I usually charge around 1.40-1.50. Then a buck per linear trim, 100 door, etc. I guess its close to the same then. does their 1.20 square foot include material?


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Traditions said:


> 1.20 per floor square footage. That is just for walls right? Thats how everyone around here does their bids. I think it is so stupid to bid floor sq footage. I have one builder that always wants me to do floor sq footage. I usually charge around 1.40-1.50. Then a buck per linear trim, 100 door, etc. I guess its close to the same then. does their 1.20 square foot include material?


No, thats the lowball builder here, he supplies materials but that price includes ceilings and trim, and doors... the better ones go around 2.20 for the same but you supply paint, up to 4.25. Others have adjustments for crown, staining, etc... pretty cutthroat in new construction here. I try to stay out of that mess unless its a custom builder, they pay decent.


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## KellyPainting (May 30, 2006)

*Was going to ask about that tonight.*

Just talked to my builder and he says he's framing another one now....
Last new construction I did was last winter and I knew nothing about bidding... My Home depot charge proves it.... now I'm alot smarter and only use ben moore ...but now I'll have to re bid new construction....

Back then I did it for $2 a sq ft floor (whole house) and I supplied materials..took a dive.... I'm in the mass area... what is the norm now? 
I was thinking $2.50 w/out materials everything


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Not sure about mass but I will tell ya, they have a tight budget... builders that is... i'd tell him something like "I do these all the time for 3.45 a square but... tell me what you can handle..we can work something out."

My father in law builds casinos in NJ, he still laughs at me when I tell him 2.20 a square.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

if i tried to charge 4.00 a square floor space on a 2500 square foot house that would be a 10000 dollar paint job. I am from small town usa. 20 miles from Springfield, Illinois. The average new houses I paint are about 150-200,000 dollar homes. Now I have a brother that lives in Chicago. A 140,000 house here would be close to double that there. I could probably get away with those prices in chicago. I just finished a 2100 sq ft house with a 600 sq ft. garage. Total 2700 sq ft. This was a good friend of mine and i did it pretty cheap. There was a little crown molding, I sprayed all trim and doors, there were 3 different colors, 2 accent walls. His total bill was 5400 dollars. He threw a fit. Thought it was way too high. He doesn't realize the amount of time and material that goes into painting a house.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Traditions said:


> if i tried to charge 4.00 a square floor space on a 2500 square foot house that would be a 10000 dollar paint job. I am from small town usa. 20 miles from Springfield, Illinois. The average new houses I paint are about 150-200,000 dollar homes. Now I have a brother that lives in Chicago. A 140,000 house here would be close to double that there. I could probably get away with those prices in chicago. I just finished a 2100 sq ft house with a 600 sq ft. garage. Total 2700 sq ft. This was a good friend of mine and i did it pretty cheap. There was a little crown molding, I sprayed all trim and doors, there were 3 different colors, 2 accent walls. His total bill was 5400 dollars. He threw a fit. Thought it was way too high. He doesn't realize the amount of time and material that goes into painting a house.



All that and it cost you prolly 1 week plus 1 for punch and what, 800 in mats? Not bad... ya the 4.25 guy here builds, well... even his tract homes start around 250. I did one for him in the "right" neighborhood, saw the sheet, was selling for 750k. I sighed.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

i would def wouldn't feel bad about bidding 4.25 on a 750,000 dollar home. However the average 2000 square ft house is about 200000 dollars. I still did pretty well on that job. I actually had way more material than I should have(about 1400 bucks.) I used a ton of material. Kinda hurt.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Oh I didn't feel bad, just wanted to buy it... heh. Ya, sounds like all those colors cost you too much, still... wasn't too bad for new construction. Sounds like our markets and Kellys aren't really too far off until you hit the high end, so per footage about 2.20 seems to be a norm with you supplying mats.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

i used way to much primer. I think I sprayed the ceilings three times. It was orange peel texture and it kept showing drywall lines through it. Ends up the places where the texture hit the mud reacted differently and made a different texture. Kinda cool to compare average prices around the country. On the normal job it doesn't look like Illinois is too far off your area brushslingers.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Traditions said:


> i used way to much primer. I think I sprayed the ceilings three times. It was orange peel texture and it kept showing drywall lines through it. Ends up the places where the texture hit the mud reacted differently and made a different texture. Kinda cool to compare average prices around the country. On the normal job it doesn't look like Illinois is too far off your area brushslingers.


Ya, looks pretty close... it's also about the same in Delaware and Virginia, and Maryland... little under Atlanta's market but the rest of Georgia is close too. Been years since i've done anything in the Carolinas... but i'd wager it isn't too far off there either.


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## jackG (Sep 14, 2006)

TO KellyPaint, the best paint in boston is C2 nothing comes close you can find it in salem ma. clark brothers at Waters n Brown. sean clark and his brother tim had 2 retired chemists one for pratt lambert the other from ben moore formulate the best paint ive ever used:thumbup:


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## painterjim (Sep 20, 2006)

Around here money can't be made doing new work. $2.00 PSF (floor space)....way to labor intensive, way to little money, some folks equate staying busy with staying profitable.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

painterjim said:


> Around here money can't be made doing new work. $2.00 PSF (floor space)....way to labor intensive, way to little money, some folks equate staying busy with staying profitable.


Very true.. but, wheres here?


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

For me figuring around 2.00 a square foot is profitable enough. I had about 100 hours in that job and the lady was a pain. She changed lots of things and there were lots of time consuming details. However with a bill of appx 5400 and material costing 1400+ I made appx $30 an hour. If it hadn't been for a friend I prob would have ended up around 38-40 an hour by the time you figure in the add ons. I am a teacher by day and a painter in the summers and evenings. 30 dollars an hour is pretty good for me. I guess what i am getting at is charging between 2.00-2.25 per sq ft will profit between 30-40 an hour. Which is a comfortable number for me.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

you should have back charged the lady for the attitude


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

no doubt. She was the biggest pain I've ever delt with. If it wasn't a friends wife I would have walked off the job.


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## painterjim (Sep 20, 2006)

> I am a teacher by day and a painter in the summers and evenings.


This is the reason you consider $25.00 to be good. But for the _paint contractor... _this one at least that will not even cover my overhead. I prefer custom repaints where referrals are king, and profits are good. This isn't a hobby for me, but the home builders want to pay as if it is.

Here is just outside Charleston SC.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

Painter Jim I kinda take your comment "this is not a hobby for me" as an insult. It is def. not a hobby for me. I have a pretty good reputation and have built a pretty good business. I don't have to charge as much because right now it is only supllemental income. However, I could not survive on a teachers salary. I am very professional and feel i am a respectable paint business in my area. I just work summers, evenings, and weekends. I usually put in 30-40 hours during the school year after teaching all day.


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## jmolloy (Nov 13, 2006)

yeah but its the "non-professional" whos responsible for low ball bids that customers jump at then wonder "what happened". im sick of gypsies with no overhead and no intention of paying taxes on thier income or thier "employees" income lowballing me out of a job .
The only advantage is that occationally one of those customer has me come and fix some idiots job ..and then i just have to laugh.
I have to do CUSTOM new constuction for 150 sq ft because every crackhead who cant keep a job claims to be a painter.
No 30 an hr is not enough for me .i dont even think in terms of hourly pay ..i give myself a salary .i pay my crew hourly .so i need to make that amount plus overhead plus profit.
gypsies in all trades give thier respective trade a bad name.cuse thier satisfied with x amount they ruin jobs and rob customers and we who are trying to run the most humble of businesses pay the price .in higher insurance premiums . tougher to land the bigger contracts and suspicious customers.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

I said 30-40 dollars an hour is profitable to me. Which it is. I have a very respectable business. Around here 30-40 dollars is what a very respectable painter charges. I have been kicking around the idea of going full time. I do taxes, insurance, etc. Don't tell me I am not a professional. I work for many high end contractors that could tell you otherwise. Painter Jim. You are a god, charge whatever you need. WHen I looked you up professional in the dictionary there was a picture of you. Is this what you want to hear.


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## Traditions (Aug 22, 2006)

Painter Jim-

Why do you put painting contractor in italics. Because I work more than one job, I am not a painting contractor. Find somewhere else to toot your own horn. "toot toot"


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Traditions said:


> i used way to much primer. I think I sprayed the ceilings three times. It was orange peel texture and it kept showing drywall lines through it. Ends up the places where the texture hit the mud reacted differently and made a different texture. Kinda cool to compare average prices around the country. On the normal job it doesn't look like Illinois is too far off your area brushslingers.


Sorry to jack this thread, but I heard some arguments not to long ago on here about not priming before the texture goes on. Well......this is the very reason for it. If your texture guy doesn't like a primed surface, screw 'em. What matters is the finished product, and priming before texture is the only way for it to dry evenly and come out uniform. Seen it WAY too many times. 

Ok, back to your normal viewing schedule....:whistling


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## Joewho (Sep 20, 2006)

Even though I have met teacher/painters, in the summer when exteriors open up business for the guys who've been scraping throught the winter, it's kind of frustrating to see college painters and teachers taking work. I've lost jobs to both just because they are students and teachers.

Not taking away from your professionalism, but just identifying a souce of frustration for the career painter.

By the way, I know some teachers in IL, and they make damn good money.


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