# Advice with room addition and blueprints



## hrscammisa (Mar 9, 2007)

I would not do a job like that with out plans to many things to go wrong he said she said well i thought you were going to do ? no you said you wanted it like this ?get every thing on paper sorry had to take a second look yes a drawing by you to start never herts


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

Last question I swear :laughing: 

By the way thanks for the helpful insight everyone....I think I have got a really good plan going now.

Now Glasshousebltr you mentioned skip an architect and I agree, the only reason I decided to have an architect was to get an accurate blueprint with side elevations, electrical layout, and framing specs to be able to submit to the building dept.

Can a structural engineer provide accurate detailed prints for me to submit to the building dept and subs?

Sorry for the newb questions I try to keep them to a minimum


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

A.W.Davis said:


> :laughing:
> ...should be collecting administrative fees. So heres my question do you bill the HO weekly for the time you spend working on the drawings and pulling permits, or do you just tell them it will be xxxx.xx amount for the administrative services?


When I did additions and remodel, the contract was for a finished product. There is no reason to bill for administrative services, just bill for work in progress. She's buying an addition, not management services. How you calculate what your price is is your business, not theirs. Generally, my payment schedule was based on milestones.

Down payment/deposit
Due on completion of framing
Due on completion of sheetrock
Due on completion of cabinets
Due on completion of job.

You get the point. The number of milestones is determined by the size of the job. If you have to many the customer will feel like they are giving you money to often. To few and you will be to strung out. You want to keep that last payment relatively small. The larger it is, the more difficult it can be to collect it.


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## Same Old (Mar 9, 2007)

I agree with Thom on the schedule of payments, but design is time comsuming and you need to charge for it. 10% is a fair rate for what you are doing. You should read Dave Gerstel's book.


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

Thanks Thom......just wanted to make sure about things! 

On my normal kitchen remodels I have roughly 4 payment schedules stated on my contract....and I agree about making the final check as small as possible.....depending on the size of the job my final check is usually around $1,500 or so


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

Same Old said:


> I agree with Thom on the schedule of payments, but design is time comsuming and you need to charge for it. 10% is a fair rate for what you are doing. You should read Dave Gerstel's book.


 
I will look into the book....I am always looking for info and ways to expand my knowlege about everything in my field!


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

A.W.Davis said:


> Last question I swear :laughing:
> 
> By the way thanks for the helpful insight everyone....I think I have got a really good plan going now.
> 
> ...


That is were you need to be qualified as the design/builder. If you can not make those calls then do the genral layout and involve a proffesional to supply you with the details.

If you are unable to make those calls then do the gerneral layout and pass it on to the professionals. Attend all meetings (very important) with the home owner and best to do it at the place the renovations will be taking place. That way details can be varified. Expect to put 30-40 hours into this process minimum. The process can take several weeks.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Same Old said:


> I agree with Thom on the schedule of payments, but design is time comsuming and you need to charge for it. 10% is a fair rate for what you are doing. You should read Dave Gerstel's book.


I'm not saying don't charge for it. I'm saying don't break it out. They are buying a finished addition. Once you start breaking things out, there is no end to it. Don't sell material, labor, supervision, design, profit, overhead. Sell a finished addition and charge for a finished addition.


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## Same Old (Mar 9, 2007)

The problem is that the price depends on the design for remodels like this. The design takes a lot of time before they make a decision to buy. Think of it in terms of cutom homes and giving away a one-off custom design for a home without ever getting any money. You just can't afford to give away custom designs to everyone that asks for an estimate on their undesigned kitchen addition.


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

Same Old said:


> The problem is that the price depends on the design for remodels like this. The design takes a lot of time before they make a decision to buy. Think of it in terms of cutom homes and giving away a one-off custom design for a home without ever getting any money. You just can't afford to give away custom designs to everyone that asks for an estimate on their undesigned kitchen addition.


Those where my thoughts as well! There will be much deliberation needed to invoke a great layout. That will be my time spent WORKING which I have absolutely no problem doing.....its just it is my time! 

Also my feelings on this matter since I am still green to it where that I would take an observant standpoint and document all of the time it takes me to handle everything, the miles traveled back and forth to her house (she lives 50 miles away), and time away from another job to consult with the designer, my rough drawings drawn up for the architect.

Basically I just want to have a system that doesnt deviate from one job to another, by saying that I mean if I dont charge for administrative services for one HO, then the next referal shouldnt be charged either.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Glasshousebltr said:


> SE = Structural Engineer:thumbsup:


 That's how we do it...architects have continually F'ed up everything....design, budgets you name it. Get the the stamp and do your thing. SE's still cover their ass by overbuilding though.

We did a 20'X20" addition with 5/12 pitch vaulted ceiling and the prints asked for a TRIPLE 1 7/8" X14" lam ridge with 2X10 rafters....you could land a helicopter an this roof


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## Same Old (Mar 9, 2007)

Charge a design fee. 
Draftspeople that understand framing can help you as well. Maybe get a SE to verbally ok it for you when they're done (cheap insurance if you're not sure). Look on craigslist for draftspeople. 
I do a lot of design work, but I know my structural for just about everything I design for residential, when I don't, the SE fills in the blanks for $120 an hour. I find good architects are in the same range, but they aren't interested in helping you with a design, they're interested in the design contract (and they're having SEs fill in the blanks too).
There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Offering design in your niche is huge, huge. 

I like your work, continue to learn and add to your design arsenal. :thumbsup:


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

*Value your time,*



A.W.Davis said:


> Those where my thoughts as well! There will be much deliberation needed to invoke a great layout. That will be my time spent WORKING which I have absolutely no problem doing.....its just it is my time!
> 
> Also my feelings on this matter since I am still green to it where that I would take an observant standpoint and document all of the time it takes me to handle everything, the miles traveled back and forth to her house (she lives 50 miles away), and time away from another job to consult with the designer, my rough drawings drawn up for the architect.
> 
> Basically I just want to have a system that doesnt deviate from one job to another, by saying that I mean if I dont charge for administrative services for one HO, then the next referal shouldnt be charged either.


To be in business long term, you have to realize your time is money. It is what puts a roof over your head, food on your table and braces on the kids, and the little ladies trips to the health spa. Set an example for those around you, and show that your time is valuable, they will respect you for that, as will each and every customer that pays for your services. Renegotiating at this stage is unproffesional, but for future jobs use your new knowledge to build you company.


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## Same Old (Mar 9, 2007)

WNYcarpenter said:


> We did a 20'X20" addition with 5/12 pitch vaulted ceiling and the prints asked for a TRIPLE 1 7/8" X14" lam ridge with 2X10 rafters....you could land a helicopter an this roof


That barely makes it by my calcs. 20' span?? Go read a Microllam spec guide once.


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

We would be required to use 2x12 for rafter in this nec of the woods, mind you we require R40 insulation and air space.....:laughing:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

I checked the prints, we did use 2x12's...I'm trying to post a pic, but haven't quite figured it out yet!

Perhaps I'm wrong about the overbuild, but gees man, 3- 1 7/8 x 14 lams, that's in the neighborhood of $1000 for a ridge beam for a 20x20...I don't know the exact price per foot, but the overall length was 36'.


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