# How to handle incompetent GCs



## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

I have been slow lately. I can't complain since it's my first real slow period in over a year. So since I've been slow I've been taking on new jobs with new GCs and doing more sub work. It's been kinda frustrating. I seem to have so many more issues and callbacks with sub work vs my own jobs. 

The job I'm on currently has been a bit of a nightmare. The customer is a nut. She is a pain and a jerk. It's an insurance job. I believe the basement got wet. Demo was done when we arrived. All we were supposed to do was glue up marlite paneling, install base and chair rail, install laminate floor and paint walls. Pretty simple. Problem is the walls were all crappy when we showed up. Lots of bows in the framing and old drywall. GC was specific on only doing what we were told to do. The GC also dropped of some really crappy trim he stained himself for us to install. It looked like garbage but he wanted us to install it. 

Now the customer is saying she is unhappy with the project and the materials used and complaining about every bow in the wall and gaps between trim and wall (due to bowing drywall between studs) the GC and myself did a walk through with her and agreed what needed addressed. I went out and spent a few hours tweeting and touching things up. 

Well I get an email from the GC saying she still isn't happy and he wants me to go back out to address more alleged issues. I'm frustrated because I've already got too much time involved but I haven't seen any money so I'm forced to keep going back so they will give me a check. 

Do you find that subbing work is more trouble ridden than your own jobs? How do I tell this GC that he needs to get his crap together and give me my check. 



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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm not clear on why you didn't get money from him first to do it the way he wanted and with the materials he provided which she was ultimately unhappy with _*before *_going on to fix his issues with the material he provided and on walls you told him in advance weren't up to par... 

Before you go back AGAIN for the third times a charm visit, ask for a check for the above FIRST that was done under his orders with the materials he provided...


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

The company he works for wont give money up front. Their reasoning is that they cover all materials. Ordinarily I don't work this way. I made the exception because I have one other company that does this and they are good at paying. 

I always get money up front on my own jobs. I get slow and start taking on less that ideal circumstances in fear of not having work. 


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Stevarino said:


> The company he works for wont give money up front. Their reasoning is that they cover all materials. Ordinarily I don't work this way. I made the exception because I have one other company that does this and they are good at paying.
> 
> I always get money up front on my own jobs. I get slow and start taking on less that ideal circumstances in fear of not having work.
> 
> ...


Unless we're not getting the whole story, based on what you posted, you already completed the work as he requested with the materials he provided... you did what he told you to do...

If he wants you to correct his materials and issues you told him about, that's on him for additional funds...


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

That's why I'm going to go back one more time with him there. If there is something on our end that needs touched up then fine. But if it has to do with his crappy materials or the pre existing wall conditions forget it. I need that check and I'm sick of waiting around while the customer complains about aspects of the project I had no control over. 


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

So I'm curious is any of this documented? the condition of the walls? the quality of the trim?


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Stevarino said:


> That's why I'm going to go back one more time with him there. If there is something on our end that needs touched up then fine. But if it has to do with his crappy materials or the pre existing wall conditions forget it. I need that check and I'm sick of waiting around while the customer complains about aspects of the project I had no control over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now I'm confused... didn't you say already did walk-through with the GC and HO?... :blink:

Didn't you already address what they both pointed out on the walk-through?

Stevarino... I'd encourage you to be straight with this guy and hold him accountable... If you already addressed what they pointed out on the previous walk-through, there's no reason for you not to be paid unless you didn't do it... if you decide to do ANOTHER walk-through, document the punch list and have the HO sign it, take before and after pics, and be clear to the HO in front of the GC that you used the materials you were provided and ... not in a jerk way, but an informative one so the HO knows where the responsibility lies for the crap you were given...

Good luck... 8^)


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

This is why I quit subbing. I'll work at McDonald's before I'll work for a GC that knows less than I.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't work for any contractors. I only enter into prime contacts. However there are exceptions. If it's a buddy contractor that's in a pinch I'll take it on. There's also a few guys on here I'd have zero issues working for.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

If you scope the job for a GC or even a Homeowner for that matter, and you see that framing is bowed or crooked,you know it will look like s^*t after the job is done, why you attaching your name to it. 

You said yourself you got s^*t framing and s^*t material to work with, so you knew it will look like s^*t without proper prep work. Would you pay for the job outcome like this if this was your house?

Now you in a big mess between GC and the HO, and there is nothing you can do, because the HO is no paying GC and GC is not paying you. It happens all the time when nobody gives a s^*t.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Another no nothing claiming to be a GC and the customer thought nothing of hiring him now he is relying on his help to help him understand. mother****ing bull****


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Sorry to hear this, Steve.

If I were you...

I'd go back there with the GC and the Homeowner and more or less take charge of the situation if you want to get paid. Clearly the GC ain't doing it. This is your last chance. Don't lift a finger on any more work until you get a clear understanding of what the HO needs to see in order to pay the broke ass GC. THEN, get a check right then and there from the GC for the original agreed upon amount, and a little extra for the second and third trips. I understand we're living in the real world here, so you're not going to be fairly compensated for all your time. You're just hoping to get paid to keep things rolling. 
You HAVE to get paid on this next trip though, otherwise your GC is going to blow all the money covering himself and he'll try to do some weasel deal with you, most likely involving another crappy job.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

HardGibson said:


> Sorry to hear this, Steve.
> 
> If I were you...
> 
> ...


I hope he gets paid, but I doubt this will be the case.

When you deal with GS's who don't know better, they get this jobs, and to save money they tell their " just bang this out, cover everything up and call it a day". Sub looks and does what he is told to do ,i.e no prep work, not straighten anything out, etc bing bang going over crooked framing, etc and he is looking to get paid.

Now the HO gets home looks at it and said wtf is this, it looks like s^*t and everything hits the fan. She wants this done right, she don't pay the builder doesn't pay until the customer is happy.

Sub always gets screwed in this type of situations, and the worst thing, there is nothing he can do. If he goes after the builder, he will show pictures and say this is a hack job (what he said before "just go over it" it don't matter at this point, there is no proof that he said that) he goes after the HO, same thing, I'm not paying for this this sub standard work... I want this made right. 

He already went back, now this job is starting to cost him. Now if he goes back it will cost him even more, not to mention that the complaint is "everything is bowed and not straight" most likely he will have to rip some of that out and re-do, and that is what he should have done from the get-go and charged accordingly. 

What is the rule of thumb in our business? Being a professional contractor we should know that is should be done right no matter what anyone says, because if we don't it will always bite us in the a$$.


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

Tom M said:


> Another no nothing claiming to be a GC and the customer thought nothing of hiring him now he is relying on his help to help him understand. mother****ing bull****


I worked for a company that did mostly insurance jobs for the better part of a year.

Believe me unless you're a great salesmen, you don't get a chance to fix things to make the finished product look good.

Insurance don't like it if the customer wants to change the color of the trim.

As far as they are concerned whatever color it was is the color it goes.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

BucketofSteam said:


> I worked for a company that did mostly insurance jobs for the better part of a year.
> 
> Believe me unless you're a great salesmen, you don't get a chance to fix things to make the finished product look good.
> 
> ...


I guess it would depend on the area and the house in question. If you doing low-end home maybe they don't give you much, but when a HO from a 500k townhouse or 800k house files a claim, they will cover and replace everything that needs to be replaced.

I don't do much insurance work because of my payment schedules, but the few jobs I did, insurance paid for everything and then some.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Insurance around here don't want nothing to do with the construction part. They assess the damage and cut a check. This way the HO is on the hook for the quality of the contractor. Makes the most sense to me from a business standpoint, if you're an insurance company.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

Thanks for the input guys. Yes it should have been done right the first time. The GC is only on of many for a company that does insurance work. So he doesn't even have power to write a check which is frustrating. I only took the job because I'm slow and the one other job I did for this guy went good (maybe cause it wasn't an insurance job). He didn't want to pay out for any extras. It has definitely been a mess from day one when he asked if I had time to do a "quick job" turns out the day I show up to start he hasn't even finalized trim choice let alone stain and urethane it. I'm trying to cut my losses at this point and just get paid. I'm supposed to meet him and the homeowner there tomorrow morning. I'm going to give him an hour of my time to address any concerns. If we don't have materials to make repairs sorry that's not my fault. If it isn't an issue with my work than its on him and I need paid ASAP. Allegedly he is going to try to get her happy enough to sign off on the job so I can get paid. I will let you know how it goes. I'm not too optimistic. 

I rarely ever have issues like this on my own jobs. If something extra needs fixed I explain it to the customer and up charge. Done deal. Once I get "hungry" I take on jobs that are less than ideal. 


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

greg24k said:


> I guess it would depend on the area and the house in question. If you doing low-end home maybe they don't give you much, but when a HO from a 500k townhouse or 800k house files a claim, they will cover and replace everything that needs to be replaced.
> 
> I don't do much insurance work because of my payment schedules, but the few jobs I did, insurance paid for everything and then some.


Oh they'll cover and replace everything alright.

It just has to be put back exactly the way it was.

If the walls were white and it had white trim, they want white walls and white trim put back.

The idea of actually painting them a different color is not something they even want to think about.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

BucketofSteam said:


> Oh they'll cover and replace everything alright.
> 
> It just has to be put back exactly the way it was.
> 
> ...


I don't know, I was never faced with that, I mean I don't do to many insurance jobs, but the few I did, I made my bid, the HO sent a copy to the insurance company... they approved it and cut them a check. People did what ever they want with the money and install what ever they wanted and if it was extra costs, they paid extra.

I will give you an example. I did a flooded basement job after one of the storms we had a few years back.
Insurance company came out and reimbursed them for damaged furniture, and they had a wall unit made out of particle board, it got wet and swelled up and all the laminate was peeling. 
Instead of getting another wall unit, I got them hanging shelving system which spanned across a 13' wall with drawers and doors. They used insurance money and paid extra , nobody comes to inspect after everything was done.
They pay out and they don't care what you do with the money.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

How'd you make out, Steve?


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

The GC took responsibility for any issues on the trim. I touched up some nail holes in the paneling we missed and hit a few paint spots that needed touched up. Then the homeowner came down and made me follow her around as she crawled around inspecting the basement walls and pointed out any fleck of dust in the paint or pinhead scuff and had me touch them up. Anytime she felt the slightest texture difference in the paint she freaked out. Then she accused me of getting paint all over their old trim and ceiling which I pointed out to her was a different paint color than what we were using and was clearly old (It was a slapped together DIY "finished basement" that looked like crap just like the rest of the house) I also had to explain to her that the reason there were gaps between the chair rail and the wall is because her drywall sink in every other stud. 
After enduring some insults and biting my tongue she finally signed off on the work. Now to wait for the check from the Gc


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

The GC asked me about my schedule for their next job. I said get me a check for this job and I'll see. 


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Nicely done, especially on biting your tongue!


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

HardGibson said:


> Nicely done, especially on biting your tongue!




I had to pray for patience and restraint on my way to the job this morning. It was not easy especially when she told me she felt like a preschool teacher having to tell me how to do my job. 


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## WBCarpentry (Jun 19, 2015)

So in response to the insurance jobs...I was an adjuster for 5 yrs. if you guys have questions feel free to hit me up. Every company operates differently and even specific events (tornados, hurricanes, etc.) will dictate different claims handling. But generally insurance doesn't care about colors on replacement...unless matching is an issue. But like I said hit me up if your curious. I worked for Farmers.

Will


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

WBCarpentry said:


> So in response to the insurance jobs...I was an adjuster for 5 yrs. if you guys have questions feel free to hit me up. Every company operates differently and even specific events (tornados, hurricanes, etc.) will dictate different claims handling. But generally insurance doesn't care about colors on replacement...unless matching is an issue. But like I said hit me up if your curious. I worked for Farmers.
> 
> Will
> 
> ...




Thanks Will. I appreciate that. I will keep you in mind. 


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

To answer your questions contained in your last sentence; yes,working for GCs can be a problem. The farther removed from the money,the more bad things can happen. Also,you need to establish a progress payment schedule BEFORE you begin work,and have it in writing. But nothing counts like knowing the people you work for ahead of time.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Stevarino said:


> The GC took responsibility for any issues on the trim. I touched up some nail holes in the paneling we missed and hit a few paint spots that needed touched up. Then the homeowner came down and made me follow her around as she crawled around inspecting the basement walls and pointed out any fleck of dust in the paint or pinhead scuff and had me touch them up. Anytime she felt the slightest texture difference in the paint she freaked out. Then she accused me of getting paint all over their old trim and ceiling which I pointed out to her was a different paint color than what we were using and was clearly old (It was a slapped together DIY "finished basement" that looked like crap just like the rest of the house) I also had to explain to her that the reason there were gaps between the chair rail and the wall is because her drywall sink in every other stud.
> After enduring some insults and biting my tongue she finally signed off on the work. Now to wait for the check from the Gc
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


some people !!


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## Framer87 (Dec 27, 2014)

blacktop said:


> some people !!


Imagine what their kids and grandkids are going to be like???😌😉


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## Krok (Jul 9, 2016)

greg24k said:


> It happens all the time when nobody gives a s^*t.


I'm always amazed at the amount of chit work out there...and a lot of it done by people/companies that are very busy/are successful.

Doesn't insurance work only pay for what was damaged?


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## Krok (Jul 9, 2016)

WBCarpentry said:


> But like I said hit me up if your curious. Will


Thanks Will.


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