# Uh Oh, I've working myself broke on this restoration project



## photogoat (Dec 23, 2008)

It started out with a nice conversation about converting a 130 year old barn into a guest cottage. "Yeah it will probably costs you about $50K by the time we are done," I say. Six months later we got 25% more building to go, the clients have ringed me out with changes and upgrades, but the biggest time and resource drainer has been the difficulties of building a supermodel using the skeleton of an old maid. I could have built a new cottage from scratch twice now. Now I'm trying to find a way to bring this up to the clients Is it too late to mention words design fee, building management fee, architect fee, stocking fee, sitting around listening to the clients argue fee, misc. loose ends fee. I eat, sleep and breathe this job, trying to build something really cool for them, but I got so much down time in it, I haven't been able to make any other income let alone work on my personal home which is in dire need of TLC. 

Suggestions ?


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

What does your contract say about design fees, change orders etc...?


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

kevjob said:


> What does your contract say about design fees, change orders etc...?


I would bet...nothing.


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Hit 'em with change orders for every design change. Do you even have a signed written contract?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

quit and go into the contractor witness protection program


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

photogoat said:


> It started out with a nice conversation about converting a 130 year old barn into a guest cottage. "Yeah it will probably costs you about $50K by the time we are done," I say.


Did you blurt this out in the beginning? In H/O mind, that figure probably stuck like sh#t to the side of the toilet bowl. The job was probably worth 2x that price(taking into consideration that you spent 6 months of your life there).:whistling


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## photogoat (Dec 23, 2008)

No contracts. Just a lot of trust and discussions. We are in the country. I work by "Phases." We're halfway done with Phase 4. They haven't had a problem throwing money at me. Half up front for each phase and the rest when each phase is done. I've tapped my design change angle b/c we usually talk everything out before I get to far. But that's one of the places my time gets eatin up. These are good folks and I think they know that I've been giving them a crazy good deal. Just want to bring this up right the first time.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

photogoat said:


> No contracts. Just a lot of trust and discussions. We are in the country.



wtf???


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Hey folks, when we started this I envisioned us being done in 3 months and no so elaborate, here we are six months later, you have been really changing this thing from what I figured was going to be around 50k. I want you to know that we have burned that up and are now exceeding that number and still need another 3 months to go.

If that doesn't work, well....

Good Luck


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

It sounds like your screwing the poodle at this point. Good ol boy is not running a business. You got no contract, everyone is friends, guess what?

Screwing the poodle now. 
Sorry!:sad:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

silvertree said:


> It sounds like your screwing the poodle at this point. Good ol boy is not running a business. You got no contract, everyone is friends, guess what?
> 
> Screwing the poodle now.
> Sorry!:sad:


Yep, it's all about friends right? This is how you work for friends. :laughing:


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## poolcageman (Dec 10, 2007)

No contract? Handshake? I am sorry but Six Months and the project is $50,000. That sounds real low. Once you come up with a price like that, you can never go up. Especially with no Contract! You cannot even go back with a Contract Change. Good luck


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Man I know just where you are coming from. I work on a lot of old houses around here (well, worked) and I know what it is like wanting to see the project through to completion. But you have to sit down with them and talk this out. 
It won't do you or them any good if you are pissed about the whole thing and not making some money on the design aspects.
Don't let them or YOU suck you dry.

Andy.


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Man I know just where you are coming from. I work on a lot of old houses around here (well, worked) and I know what it is like wanting to see the project through to completion. But you have to sit down with them and talk this out.
> It won't do you or them any good if you are pissed about the whole thing and not making some money on the design aspects.
> Don't let them or YOU suck you dry.
> 
> Andy.


And make sure you wear leather gloves and the 45 you are packing is visible. :thumbsup:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

photogoat said:


> No contracts. Just a lot of trust and discussions. We are in the country.





MALCO.New.York said:


> wtf???


That actually works quite well much of the time, depending on the area and the folks involved. You probably need to be a country boy to understand.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Tinstaafl said:


> That actually works quite well much of the time, depending on the area and the folks involved. You probably need to be a country boy to understand.


I have been starting to get lax with previous customers on the proposal/contract thing....should take this as a wake up. Haven't had a problem yet, but don't thnk I want to wait for one.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

If he could have built it new and done a better, more economical job, shouldn't he have recommended that in the first place?
How often do you bill them? Do you include the times that you are meeting/talking with them? (you should)


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

I understand the friendly trust that you find in rural areas, I lived in Vermont and New Hampshire and experienced that myself. We also had the town crooks too, guys you would not want to do work for. But underestimating by a large degree doesn't help anyone, you go broke or a job doesn't get done to completion. I think this thread has more to do with not running a business properly than good ol country feelings in my bones.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

silvertree said:


> I understand the friendly trust that you find in rural areas, I lived in Vermont


Hey! What the heck is that supposed to mean?!:laughing: Even us hick town Country boys in VT know how to write a contract:no:

And we use them too:laughing:


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Hey *photo*goat, post some pic's!


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