# Got burned for $31K



## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

rino1494 said:


> He wouldn't sign, but he did a verbal agreement to make payments of $625/week.
> HVAC guy is into him for $40k
> Electrician for $16k
> Foundation contractor for $35k
> ...


Hell, it will extend to 2020, if the numbers are as you stated.





rino1494 said:


> Stone mason for 5 houses


What is wrong with the stone mason? Is he slow reading the guy?


*NEVER EVER RISK MORE THAN YOUR NET PROFIT, AND REMEMBER:YOU ARE NOT THE BANKER.*
Paying your guys and yourself weekly means you are financing this guy's job.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

This is how AMERICA was built!


Only difference, is the color of your skin!


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

MALCO.New.York said:


> This is how AMERICA was built!
> 
> 
> Only difference, is the color of your skin!


whats that supposed to mean?


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I agree with Dr. Buckeye on this one. Set up an appt. to meet with the sheriff and or police chief in the area you will be operating in. Tell them what you plan on doing. You'll want to have some documentation behind you to prove that he owes you the money.

Cooperate with the others, maybe you can go with one or two of the others.

You should have some judgements or something in your hand. Otherwise, all you have is a story.

Anyway, meet with the sheriff and tell him your plan of pursuing the guy at jobs where he may be working, public places he may be frequenting, etc.

The sheriff, once you have him on your side, should be able to tell you what you will and won't be arrested for. It sounds simple, but you need to know what constitutes stalking, assault, harassment. For example, I think you could go to a basketball game where his child is playing, go to where he is sitting, and distribute flyers to the people around him. But if you call him twice on the telephone or park in front of his house, you may be arrested for stalking or harassment.

I'm not sure about this myself, but a friend's husband served time in the pen for stalking, and it involved debt collection.

An attorney could maybe explain this to you as well, maybe not. I suppose the same with a private investigator. But I think it would be wise to show your face to the sheriff so he can know what is going on and spread the word to the deputies.

A private investigator may be a good contact if you know one that you can just talk to for a few minutes with no charge.

I know there are tracking devices to put under people's cars as well, so you can tell where he is at all times. I believe they are very expensive and quite illegal.

If you have the time, you can google the RAF and specifically their assassination of the Deutsche Bank president in Bad Homburg in the '80's. History is nice to study.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

TheItalian204 said:


> whats that supposed to mean?




We raped America. Put Redman on reservations!


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

It's happened to me as well. Sometimes you don't even see it coming.
25 years ago we did a hoarding job for a major builder, whom I had just bought a house from. They didn't pay so we lieined the building. We got paid in the end, about 5 years later.
Was speaking to a colleague recently, and they just got burned, by the same builder. 25 years later.
Oddly, all this started when the sons took over, and they are still trading on their father's good reputation. They however are crooks.

Couple of years ago I did a $10,000 job for a major builder whom I have worked for for 25 years. Rush rush rush. They were totally pleased when I finished. Sent the invoice in, and waited. Never had a problem getting paid, ever. One job was $100,000 and we got a cheque exactly 30 days after invoice.
This time around, 60 days goes by. Sorry. That company (the holding company for this particular project) went bankrupt. Apparently BEFORE I did the work, so they knew I wouldn't get paid. 10 months later, out of "goodwill" the parent company gave me 1/2.

I think if you are a contractor, this is going to happen. We just have to suck it up and keep on going.


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## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

This happens in all types of business. Problem is, in this country (or at least in NY) dead beats get protection. How many people actually bang out their credit cards and never pay etc etc.. its really really bad. Risk of doing business. 
If you're gonna get "street" on someone you'd better have the onions to walk the walk or you're gonna wind up in a WORSE spot than where you started.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

I would at least let every supplier within an hours drive know this guy is a deadbeat. It will be harder for him to restart under a new company when all the suppliers know he is beating all the subs and they could be next.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

His house in Naples FL could mean trouble. If he declares FL as his permanent residency they are a lot softer on bankruptcy's in that state.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

TimNJ said:


> I would at least let every supplier within an hours drive know this guy is a deadbeat. It will be harder for him to restart under a new company when all the suppliers know he is beating all the subs and they could be next.


They most likely know it...


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

that REALLY sux jason...in 31 yrs..i'm going to have to file my FIRST mechanic's lien..for substantially less than you, $11k...but i really could use the money, this ******* isn't returning phone calls..i'm not playing reindeer games anymore.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Stone Mountain said:


> Couple of years ago I did a $10,000 job for a major builder whom I have worked for for 25 years. Rush rush rush. They were totally pleased when I finished. Sent the invoice in, and waited. so they knew I wouldn't get paid. 10 months later, out of "goodwill" the parent company gave me 1/2.
> 
> I think if you are a contractor, this is going to happen. We just have to suck it up and keep on going.


Get your contract signed and front money, mobilize, work according to the contract until the next draw.
If the next draw is not forthcoming, stop work.
Simple. Don't be the bank. 
Clients actually understand this concept.


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## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

skyhook said:


> Get your contract signed and front money, mobilize, work according to the contract until the next draw.
> If the next draw is not forthcoming, stop work.
> Simple. Don't be the bank.
> Clients actually understand this concept.


 when you're a sub that works for GC's its not that simple. sometimes they don't get the req. from the owners when they bill so u gotta wait, or retainage or whatever..you risk the relationship. HOWEVER there are creative ways of letting them know they're on thin ice, maybe all the guys on the crew except foreman get sick a few days...
:whistling


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

d-rock said:


> when you're a sub that works for GC's its not that simple. sometimes they don't get the req. from the owners when they bill so u gotta wait, or retainage or whatever..you risk the relationship. HOWEVER there are creative ways of letting them know they're on thin ice, maybe all the guys on the crew except foreman get sick a few days...
> :whistling


that's my situation... a city project, i'm a sub...$110k project, they've not released my retainage (10%) the job got their substantial completion on oct. 1 last year. i know i'll get my money here too...alas, i won't be getting the 2% per month that any other creditor is more than happy to assess your ass if the tables were turned.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Funny. Lots of talk about a$$ beatings here, but in reality, it rarely, if ever, actually happens. Guess that's why the douchebags keep rollin'.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

A.T.C. said:


> Funny. Lots of talk about a$$ beatings here, but in reality, it rarely, if ever, actually happens. Guess that's why the douchebags keep rollin'.


Maybe because we are too law-abiding and cliche of contractors being jail birds with rough records are exagerrated by society.

Every man has right to stand up for himself and do to other man what he deserves,if he has been mistreated like that.

Even if money is necessary evil or dirt of our hands,there are cases which are unforgivable.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

Is this guy married?


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

uh oh. What are you thinking Paulie...


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

jmiller said:


> uh oh. What are you thinking Paulie...


Hmmmm, nothin'. :innocent:


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

:whistling


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Paulie said:


> Hmmmm, nothin'. :innocent:


If you're thinking what I think you're thinking, you're going to need a particularly young, good looking contractor to execute the plan :jester:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

jhark123 said:


> If your thinking what I think your thinking, your going to need a particularly young, good looking contractor to execute the plan :jester:


:thumbsdown:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Back to reality. Go the legal route and get your money. The longer you wait the less likely you will see a dime. Take advantage of knowing where he lives before you dont. Good luck.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

A.T.C. said:


> Funny. Lots of talk about a$$ beatings here, but in reality, it rarely, if ever, actually happens. Guess that's why the douchebags keep rollin'.


so true. i threw more than a few ass whoopings in my youth, and got a few. when i was 18 i worked for a douche bag dock builder for 2 weeks. no check, draw is late. i said you dont have operating funds? he laughed and said f no. give me till next friday and ill throw you an extra c note. relunctantly, i trusted the scum bag. next friday sends a flunky to tell us no check. i told the flunky to f off, and rolled. thought about it at the house, and loaded a shot gun with #4 buck, rolled over to his shop, he was known for carrying a peice, hence the shotty. my plan, take his welder and pawn it for what he owed, that way we are settled. no bs, my old man called right then, when i was in front of the shop, and told me he knew i was a rash, bullheaded dumbass when im mad, dont do something stupid, it wont work out. never got paid.

i like to think ive come a long way in maturing. obviously whipping douche bags ass acomplishes nothing. i like to think of my self as profesional, i serve on three boards, am the vp of my hba, and run a pretty sucsessful small business. Im still a crude, sailor mouthed nail banger at my core, and always will be.Every time i see the mf , whether in a resteraunt with his wife, gas station, lumber yard i flip him off, and stare him down like a 15 year old kid. Cant help it.

best part is, not three weeks ago,a lady i know wanted to to build a boat dock, but declined because she couldnt wait until summer and i am booked. she hired douche bag. i told her he was a worthless peice of chit, basicly. she fired him and hired a guy i refered. i told his dip chit foreman to let him know who was responsible.:clap::clap:

i wonder how much it bothers him that the King ranch Duelly was repo'd long ago, and hes driving heap and building dilapitated sheds and leaning fences while i build and remodel bad azz homes and boat docks, and enjoy a good reputation. I may not be everyones favorite guy all the time, and have my issues, but im as honest as the day is long, and id be dead and buried before i didnt pay a debt or break my word. If i end up building sheds and fences, ill, do it proud and it wont be for lack of honesty.

agghghh. enough with childish bs. go the grown up way and do it legal, even if its not as fun. i wish my temper and impulses will fade, everyone says i am exactly like the old man at my age. now he is calm cool and collected, never rash. calculates everything. trying to get there.

sorry for the long ost, im on pain pills and beer for the hand.:thumbsup:


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

jhark123 said:


> If you're thinking what I think you're thinking, you're going to need a particularly young, good looking contractor to execute the plan :jester:


you rang?


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## AutumnWood Inc. (Aug 17, 2007)

I seen a contractor who got burned by a builder, set up a giant blow up rat, one of those kinds that have to have air pump, about 10-15 feet tall. In front of the entrance to the community where the builder was building that also happened to be a golf course entrance. He had signs that said don't buy a home from that rat builder xyz he doesn't pay his bills ...etc. It created quit a stir!

I have also seen homeowners in subdivisions put signs out in front of their house saying bad things about their builder.

Seen a contractor make up a huge sign and attach it to his work van the sign said so and so builder likes to rip off his sub-contractors. He drove around the area with it for a few monthes until he got paid.

Maybe something like that might put a little pressure on him.

The worst is when they leave the state and move to a different area ... much tougher to get at them .... we have had all kinds of this go on here in Michigan. I have even heard of a large local builder getting put in the hospital from a contractor who had enough, when he lost his own businesses and had nothing to lose. He went and took care of business himself. It has been some crazy times in last few years


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Paulie said:


> Is this guy married?


Yeah and she has civil suits against her for credit cards and the local sanitary authority. Their daughter went to school with my wife and his son that is in the business graduated with my sister-in-law.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Researched him on the State Attorney General's website. He registered for his PA contractors license 2 days after filing chapter 7. I called the trustee and he told me to bring in what I have found and they will definitely investigate this. Going there on Monday. 

Money is lost, I get that. I just want this guy to go down and not make another dollar in this area.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Dude here's the best solution to this problem...

Get a buddy to call up his new business number and schedule an in house quote. You get a bunch of your buddies or hire some muscle head goons to wait in the basement with you and wait for the A hole to arrive. Get your buddy to ask the scumbag to check something in the basement while you and the goons are hiding. When he gets down to the basement all of you jump out and confront him. Guaranteed he will be crying, crapping his pants and begging you not to hurt him. You gotta shake him up to make him not be able to sleep at night. You don't have to assault him just get him scared and most likely he'll get the money.

You said he lives 5 minutes from you? So he robbed you and didn't skip town? He totally has you by the balls and is punking you...don't let him punk you anymore.

To be honest I might risk a simple assault charge for 31k and pay a small fine even if you won't get money you'll give him a beating that will send a message.

:whistling


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

It's good the bring in what you can find nd any evidence of what you think ou know..it could be his old licnese being renewed ,which wont make much of a stir.n
you never clarified what bankruptcy he filed..personal or business?

one other thing you can be sure of..the trustee has all that info...anything and everything he owns is right in front of it..wherever his name has been signed..he has it..they have some pretty damn good software..nothing like you see on the internet

and i am pretty sure his Atty would adviser him not to start or do or change anything for the time being..he would be a fool to do so..


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

jhark123 said:


> If you're thinking what I think you're thinking, you're going to need a particularly young, good looking contractor to execute the plan :jester:


You guys minds are so in the gutter.

I was thinking of going through the wife to get funds. The reasoning is he'll have someone harassing him 24/7 rather the few hours you have during the day. But if she's of the same moral character like ya posted then forget it.

But back to reality, although I'm not young I get asked to pose for GQ magazine and most my female clients just call me Thor.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Paulie said:


> You guys minds are so in the gutter.
> 
> I was thinking of going through the wife to get funds. The reasoning is he'll have someone harassing him 24/7 rather the few hours you have during the day. But if she's of the same moral character like ya posted then forget it.
> 
> But back to reality, although I'm not young I get asked to pose for GQ magazine and most my female clients just call me Thor.


Sure you did thor... :whistling:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

realelectrician said:


> You don't have to assault him just get him scared and most likely he'll get the money.


You do know that you don't have to physically touch someone for it to be qualified as "assault". Any violent motion towards someone such as a raised fist is considered assault.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Sure you did thor... :whistling:


I think it was an auto-correct, he actually typed "Bore". :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You do know that you don't have to physically touch someone for it to be qualified as "assault". Any violent motion towards someone such as a raised fist is considered assault.


There is a fine line there when its his word against yours and there are no injuries nor witnesses.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I think it was an auto-correct, he actually typed "Bore". :laughing:


:laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Id start by leaving bad reviews with google, yelp, angieslist. That should help curtail future business.


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## sancho (Apr 3, 2010)

I would contact other people he has ripped off and get them to gather their docs and go to the trustee with you. That will put a heck of a lot more weight on your complaint. It would show its a pattern and not a isolated incident.

Depending on the laws of your state, can you sue this scum personally instead of going after his business?
Showing some personal harm such as missed truck payments showing some sort of harm etc?


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

you cant pursue a business debt for personal liability, unless you got the guy and his biz on the contract..which is what oi try to do all the tome..i make it out the owner,then business..but doesn't really offer any real security when it comes down to it.

not paying someone is not ripping them off..if his business records are in shape, it will demonstrate his inability to pay his debts and nothing will be done.the debts will be discharged.

if they show that he has been hoarding the money, owns expensive toys,and living well beyond a reported income means..then he may be subject to investigation for fraud.

you can not make 500,000 in sales and take a 400,000 salary..and then say you can not pay business debts and creditors..it just wont fly..


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

In MN there is a law that comes into play in situations like this, at least on res projects. It's called "theft of proceeds".

I'd have your attorney check out the MN law then see if it applies then see if there is something similar in your state. Might be your only viable solution.


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