# Jobs handed to you on a platter-what value?



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Let's put the shoe on the other foot.

On many occasions, I've referred jobs to builders and GCs based solely on my relationship with my customers. I'll be on a service all and the HO will ask me if I know of someone who can do such-and-such. I'll give them a name and number.

If I did that for you, would you bend over backwards to kiss my ass?


----------



## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Let's put the shoe on the other foot.
> 
> On many occasions, I've referred jobs to builders and GCs based solely on my relationship with my customers. I'll be on a service all and the HO will ask me if I know of someone who can do such-and-such. I'll give them a name and number.
> 
> If I did that for you, would you bend over backwards to kiss my ass?


I might not kiss your ass, but you would have lunch and beverages coming.


----------



## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

Lots of good ideas. It all boils down to the same thing most problems do.... lack of communication. At this point, I would not hire this electrician to do work on my own home. Not because of his quality, but due to multiple trip charges and poor communication about price. If I won't have him work on my home, I have no business sending him to my customers. I need to resolve that one way or another.

Now, I want to answer some questions you posed:



> On many occasions, I've referred jobs to builders and GCs based solely on my relationship with my customers. I'll be on a service all and the HO will ask me if I know of someone who can do such-and-such. I'll give them a name and number.
> 
> If I did that for you, would you bend over backwards to kiss my ass?


 Sparky, Maybe, but I wouldn't bend over backwards, according to Leo I'd have to get out a ladder.:notworthy



> Bill if all you are doing is sun rooms and have been in the business as long as you have, I'm betting you could be able to figure out your electrical costs within $200 on any job.


 Mike, You are right. I just don't want to deal with it. I'm focused on making the sale and I don't want the distraction.



> If you go the "We do all the electrical" route, and include a base cost for an electrician in your price, it always end up with a customer who wants 6 circuits, 68 receptacles, 22 lights, 14 switches, 4 ceiling fans, 9 phone jacks and 4 cable tv jacks (not to mention the two PTACs they bought from cousin Jimmy) in their 20x22 sunroom instead of the 'basic wiring package' you're referring to.


 Sparky, EXACTLY. If I tell them 10 receps are in the package, they always think of a light that needs fixed in the basement, check the bathroom fan, etc. I get stuck for the bill. I like it outside my contract.



> If you're happy with the electrician's work and cooperation with scheduling, ask for a contracted price up front. If this electrician can't or won't give a firm price in advance, you should be able to find another who will.


Tiger, That's all I'm asking, plus maybe some limit on trip charges per job.

So, I'll chase this electrician down early this week so I can either firm up a plan with him, or move on down the road. I'll post how it comes out.
Thanks,
Bill


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Bill Z said:


> .............Sparky, Maybe, but I wouldn't bend over backwards, according to Leo I'd have to get out a ladder...........


I don't think they make ladders that tall.

You could use one of these, though:







 


(Since no one makes pedistals that tall, I have to settle for piddly little high-rise buildings.)


----------



## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

Common General Contractor practice:

Sub out something and put a markup on it, whatever seems fair to you for doing all the customer work. Customers often prefer this as well because they have one go-to guy rather than having to be their own GC dealing with every specialist and coordinating projects. Hell, there are some GC's that haven't touched a tool in years because they have a basic understanding of most trades and they're strictly logistics / facilitators. Find an electrician who's comfortable going through you, because you are the GC on these projects.

Example:

We have a drywall guy that charges us 10% less than he charges a random customer because we hand him 10+ jobs a year. We tack on 10% for the referral, lining the drywall guy out and for dealing with the customer, we bill the customer and he bills us.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

480sparky said:


> I don't think they make ladders that tall.
> 
> You could use one of these, though:
> 
> ...


Thank goodness you are on my side....


----------



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

how much is the trip charge you refer to? Would a trip charge be less costly or charging drive time one way?


----------



## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

*Update On Electrician Saga*

Update. Called the original electrician, he reluctantly agreed to come up with some basic costs for our work and do a better job working with our customers on price. Still peering at me over the edge of the pedestal.

This morning, I called a guy who was selling a classic guitar on Craigslist. What do you know, he turns out to be an electrician who needs work. Went over to his house (which gives a lot of insight into people's values) had a nice discussion (and bought the guitar). 

He has a license in our service area and is starting out with a reasonable approach to pricing. Since we're starting fresh and he is appreciative at this point anyway, I can "train" him how I want things priced out and how to deal with my customers.

So, as with any problem a little focus provides a lot of answers. Thanks for the help!
Bill


----------



## Mike(VA) (Jan 9, 2008)

Bill, Mike is right. You've done enough of these rooms to have a basic idea of what's to be done and the cost. Itemize all devices in the Scope of Work and price accordingly. I capture the electrical work in my contract but put an allowance in for the amount I think the job should cost. I explain to the HO that the amount may vary due to various circumstances, etc, etc, but that there is no way to know exactly what the final cost may be. Doing it this way keeps me in control and allows me to mark up the electrician's work. You have a chance to try something different maybe with this new guy. Hopefully, the outcome will be beneficial to both of you and put another resource in your stable.


----------



## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Leo G said:


> But, IMHO electricians and plumbers put themselves up on a pedestal, not all of them but on average this is what I see.


 
I didn't think I was on a pedestal.......I just thought all other tradesmen were short.:whistling


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

And there you have it folks :drum wrap: :laughing:


----------



## MarcD (Sep 18, 2009)

Bill Z said:


> Here's the set up. We build sun rooms and room additions. Almost every room needs at least some electrical work. We do not employ an electrician on staff.
> 
> Some installations (where allowed by code) we run all the rough wire and set the boxes but need an licensed electrician to install the plugs/switches and make everything hot at the box. Those rooms are usually wall systems that come in sections and already have a "raceway" engineered into the sections for wiring. Perhaps aluminum walls or SIP's.
> 
> ...


Communication is the key in this business. It sounds like that is your number one complaint and if that is lacking then start looking. But also think to yourself about your communication. 

Does he know the level that you are at, or what you expect of him. Some people really need to have some things spelled out to the smallest detail. 

Is this guys work which sounds like quality, worth you putting all this effort in to. 

If it was me I would say ok here is my hourly rate bill each job @ hours @ material @ trips and if you have a question call me we can talk about it or i can write up the details no problem you are paying my check and I should have to answer on what you pay me for.


----------



## Ohmy (Sep 10, 2009)

Bill Z said:


> Here's the set up. We build sun rooms and room additions. Almost every room needs at least some electrical work. We do not employ an electrician on staff.
> 
> Some installations (where allowed by code) we run all the rough wire and set the boxes but need an licensed electrician to install the plugs/switches and make everything hot at the box. Those rooms are usually wall systems that come in sections and already have a "raceway" engineered into the sections for wiring. Perhaps aluminum walls or SIP's.
> 
> ...



I agree with you. I would go with a larger electrical company for several reasons. One is they will be able to respond faster, they will have a live secretary in the office, your customers get a real warranty, it looks more professional, AND they run more calls so they can refer you more often. Plus, they will work with a higher end customer so you'll get better referals.

You set-up is hard because its not easy for the electrician to refer work. Maybe if you fixed appliances (we refer to a local appliance repair company almost every week) he would keep you in business. If you stick with a small guy maybe charge a finders fee or something. But remember if you start taking some of the money, you will start sharing some of the responsibility. 

This guy is lame though. We send all our big referrers starbucks gift cards for leads, steakhouse gift cards for jobs, and honey bake hams for Christmas. Plus, we go out of our way to refer them.


----------



## Ohmy (Sep 10, 2009)

Bill Z said:


> Update.
> He has a license in our service area and is starting out with a reasonable approach to pricing. Since we're starting fresh and he is appreciative at this point anyway,
> Bill


 His "reasonable approach" is probably why he has to sell his stuff online


----------



## Ohmy (Sep 10, 2009)

TxElectrician said:


> I didn't think I was on a pedestal.......I just thought all other tradesmen were short.:whistling


 If we are going to jump all over the trades lets make fun of cabinet guys...those guys are worse than my wife at the end of the month.


----------



## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Leo G said:


> They are gods. Why should he thank you?.


 thats pretty funny,around here we have that problem with carpenters and drywallers ! its easier to find a brain surgeon than a carpenter that will show up for a small/medium sized project! :furious:


----------



## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Bill Z said:


> Here's the set up. We build sun rooms and room additions. Almost every room needs at least some electrical work. We do not employ an electrician on staff.
> 
> Some installations (where allowed by code) we run all the rough wire and set the boxes but need an licensed electrician to install the plugs/switches and make everything hot at the box. Those rooms are usually wall systems that come in sections and already have a "raceway" engineered into the sections for wiring. Perhaps aluminum walls or SIP's.
> 
> ...


have you tried talking to him about this? there are idiots in all trades but to be fair you should ask him about it first. some customers are going to complain no matter how many freebies you give them,but if i was him i would atleast walk through the job with the customer first to see what they want/ need to get them a ball park for a certain amount of work


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

plummen said:


> thats pretty funny,around here we have that problem with carpenters and drywallers ! its easier to find a brain surgeon than a carpenter that will show up for a small/medium sized project! :furious:


I'd rather have those jobs. You can see the end of the tunnel before you even start.

The 3 month + long jobs are the ones you need to worry about. Thing go wrong and profits disappear.

Plus they think a fair wage for a carpenter is about $15/hr


----------



## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

Leo G said:


> I'd rather have those jobs. You can see the end of the tunnel before you even start.
> 
> The 3 month + long jobs are the ones you need to worry about. Thing go wrong and profits disappear.
> 
> Plus they think a fair wage for a carpenter is about $15/hr


I will take all the small jobs anyone has. Excellent work for me!

By the way, I charge $40/hour, is that enough??


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Nope, you're short changing yourself.


----------

