# Throw away society?



## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

I droped off a 18v Dewalt impact driver at the dewalt service center a week ago. The tool hit the max charge of $107.00 + tax + shipping. Murdochs (like a tractor supply here in the Rockies) has new 18 volt impacts (bare tool only) for $119.00. Gee I wonder why we are a throw away society.


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

The dewalt center also charges $23 for a 1$ bearing. I have a mountain of broken tools in my shop that needs repairs. I started doing repairs for friends years ago and they never went away.


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

I have taken a few things to our local Dewalt shop and every time it has hit the max charge.


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## texastutt (Feb 24, 2009)

There's no money in selling the tools (according to the sales guys)... seems tool repair's the biz.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

My buddy's a tool jobber and he tells me if you get 6 months out of your cordless drill (If you use them like I do) take it out and buy it dinner. It's just not worth fixing


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ever try a better drill?


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> ever try a better drill?


No, because one of my DeWalt's is going on 10 yrs and I have yet to have it repaired. Granted, I have to hold the battery in with duct tape or electrical tape...but it's a good 4th backup...:laughing:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

When you can buy the 2 battery kit for less than you can buy 2 replacement batteries, I don't see why anyone would pay for a repair.

I took a 12V DW drill in for brushes once. The repair center gave it back with a bill for adjusting the clutch and cleaning/lubricating the internal parts. No brushes because "The brushes were fine."

Took the drill to the job, ran in a dozen 3" deck screws and same problem starts. I dis-assembled the drill myself and the cast brush housing was melted beyond repair.

We are a throw away society because it's cheaper to buy junk than it is to fix it.:sad:


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

i left my dewalt 18v to get fixed last year i was charged 230 euro thats about 300 dollars


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

I have had each of my 4 DeWalt compressors in for repair, each was repaired N/C.

I took my 18V drill in and asked if they could test the batteries, especially one that had only a few months use. They apologized because the battery tester was not working, and they would need to back order the replacement. A week later, the new battery was at my door. Maybe the Portland OR service center has not been told to take the service out of the name.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

It doesn't matter what I buy, they all fail, even the nice expensive Hilti ones, they do last a few months longer (Batteries) but in general not long enough to justify the added cost. 

But I have gone through them all over the years, even Metabo who has a really good reputation...I killed it.

Now in all fairness to the cordless companies the concrete probably doesn't help and probably is not part of the R&D process :laughing:



WarnerConstInc. said:


> ever try a better drill?


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

My Ryobi 18v setup seems to take a beating and do just fine. The batteries, they are alright, not great, but gotta say, Ryobi isn't bad. Battery tools aren't designed to be used all day. Maybe for a few cuts, and whatnot, but If needing to use the sawzall all day, or skill saw for several cuts, might as well pull out the extension cord.


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## MKnAs Dad (Mar 20, 2011)

The Dewalt service centerby me does a horrible job of "repairing". They were trying to tell me that a pancake compressor was $140 to repair after they repaired it. I told them I can get a recon for $100 at the time. They dropped the price. Just like always, after their repair, the tool lasted about 6-8 months with somewhat limited use.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

The cordless craze. Let's face it, it was created to get all us tradesmen and contractors with our laziness and our thousands in disposable income to save the tool industries bottom line. I resisted buying them for years until about 1998. I've been through 4, maybe 5 since then, not too bad, but still I have Rockwell saws, screwguns and drills from the 70's that still run. I don't use them anymore as they have retired to the antique shelf as collectors items. When a cordless craps I throw them away


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned a corded tool is an investment and cordless tool is a consumable, like buying a saw blade.


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

It is really really pathetic that our society is that way! All the technology advances and amazing engineering feats that we all benefit from, we all let the middlemen and corporations run the show and give us [email protected] to work with.
The money system is the flaw in all this! How we get away from that and allow the smart ones improve a product without money being the incentive or bottom line........I don't know! But I too, am tired of throwing things away! It's rediculus to throw away a drill set every year!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Buy a better drill.

Under 200.00, throw away, over 450.00 10 year keeper.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Buy a better drill.
> 
> Under 200.00, throw away, over 450.00 10 year keeper.


Which drill? I have a Hilti that was up there, it's toast, the batteries anyway, I found someone who wrecked the drill and gave him $ 50 for the batteries so that's the only reason I keep it. You can smell the armature when drilling heavy


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Chris Johnson said:


> Which drill? I have a Hilti that was up there, it's toast, the batteries anyway, I found someone who wrecked the drill and gave him $ 50 for the batteries so that's the only reason I keep it. You can smell the armature when drilling heavy


Maybe you should be using something with a cord?

There are drills out there that have electronics that protect the motors from over heating, some even without brushes to wear.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

my oldest makita impact came with a hammerdrill in the case. it's over 3 years old. works every single day on the job. timberlocks, ledger locks, grks, green square drive screws you name it, we have driven it with this impact. 

the batteries are still good, and they are 3 years old. I noticed that they do go dead a little quicker than they used to, but overall. I can't complain about makita. 
my DW cordless circ saw and sawsall, those batteries are horrible. they are always dead even if you charge both and put them away. a day or so later, you pull them out make a few cuts and bam, dead. i don't want to waste 120 bucks on 2 dewalt batteries that are going to last a year and then die. 

I just bought the makita 6 piece set on amazon. free shipping, comes with a charger, two batteries, circ saw, reciprocating saw, grinder, impact driver, another hammerdrill(didn't need it but it came with it.) a flashlight(already have one) and a nice bag.

I did the math and it cost me only 100 more roughly to buy this big set than if i had bought tool only circ saw, sawsall, two batteries and a charger to go with it. i know it only comes with two batteries but i already have 4 lith ion makita batteries and this will give me two more. i can always buy two more later and know they will last a while for me.

I don't use cordless circ saws all that often but when i need to use it, i want the batteries to last. 

the cordless sawsall is great though. it's much faster than getting a cord out. unless we are doing a lot of cutting all day long.


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## Northwood (Jan 6, 2010)

It's kind of funny how we all say how we hate cheap throw away drills and would be willing to pay for a quality drill if it lasted longer and was worth fixing. Yet Warner (who is obviously talking about Festool) says that his drill is such a tool and everyones reaction is that he's full of it. 
Festool comes with a warranty on the tool and batteries I believe and the used tools seem to sell for a lot! Those are usually good indicators of high quality, the latter in particular. 
But most of us, myself included, will probably just chalk it up to marketing hype and go to the depot and by another "cheap" drill. 
That said, I've owned my Makita 18v lxt tools for 6 yrs now and they have worked very well. But if something broke I would probably buy new instead of repair because of similar experiences with repair centers.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Buy a better drill.
> 
> Under 200.00, throw away, over 450.00 10 year keeper.


Guys its not the fact that only crap is being produced its battery technology. I urge anyone to show me a cordless drill that gets regular heavy use that has lasted more than 5 years. Not gonna happen!

Plus the replacement cost is so low they are not worth repairing.


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## rosethornva (Aug 15, 2010)

*.*

But this isn't just about dollars...it's about making the best use of our resources. 

I wish there was a way to get this stuff repaired. It seems so wasteful to throw away a massive hunk of plastic and metal because one small component has failed.

At the very least, why not keep the same model in production and offer replacement parts, so the average Joe (or Jane) can switch out broken parts?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I still have one of my first lxt packs which I brought over from Uk when I moved. Its got to be around 6 year old now as i purchased them the week they were released. It's been retired to my makita radio but it's still working. The worst thing for these batteries is leaving them out in heat. That combined with hard use make them batteries die very quickly.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

rosethornva said:


> But this isn't just about dollars...it's about making the best use of our resources.
> 
> I wish there was a way to get this stuff repaired. It seems so wasteful to throw away a massive hunk of plastic and metal because one small component has failed.
> 
> At the very least, why not keep the same model in production and offer replacement parts, so the average Joe (or Jane) can switch out broken parts?


That's the great thing about festool. They will produce the parts and spares for much longer than really needed and repair costs ain't through the roof. Brands like dewalt would rather you buy new because they make more money from it. A local repair shop around here charges $98 an hour labour charge of repairs! I'm sure most repairs can be done in 20-30 mins but that cost alone make repairing not worth it.


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## Coptool (Oct 8, 2008)

$98/hour that seems pretty high for tool repairs. Around here the local guys are around $48/hour (the DeWalt store may charge more) billed in half hour blocks so $24 is a pretty common charge for a lot of basic things. The parts however can get pretty pricey and that is from the manufacturers so I would think they would be pretty happy to sell the parts as well as new tools. Probably would cost 10 times a new tool to build it from the spare parts.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> That's the great thing about festool. They will produce the parts and spares for much longer than really needed and repair costs ain't through the roof. Brands like dewalt would rather you buy new because they make more money from it. A local repair shop around here charges $98 an hour labour charge of repairs! I'm sure most repairs can be done in 20-30 mins but that cost alone make repairing not worth it.


They will have parts for up to 10 years after a tool is obsolete.

Sometimes a drill with a cord is the way to go.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> But this isn't just about dollars...it's about making the best use of our resources.


Companies are profit maximizing.

Stocking costs and staffing a parts department isn't worth it.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Northwood said:


> It's kind of funny how we all say how we hate cheap throw away drills and would be willing to pay for a quality drill if it lasted longer and was worth fixing. Yet Warner (who is obviously talking about Festool) says that his drill is such a tool and everyones reaction is that he's full of it.


Here's my thoughts on that.

If I have the option of buying a $450 drill, that will last 10 years, (although I don't believe the batteries will give that kind of service life) or buying 4 drill kits at $99 bucks each and still have some dough for accessories, I'm buying 4 drill kits. All of which should give several years of service life with average use. 

I like to switch drills rather than bits when I'm into a project, thus 4 drills are better than one.:thumbsup:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Coptool said:


> I would think they would be pretty happy to sell the parts as well as new tools. Probably would cost 10 times a new tool to build it from the spare parts.


That's no different than an automobile. It has a useful service life, then becomes too expensive to keep up with repairs.

You'll find a few guys who prefer to continue upkeep on their truck, but where is the benefit when it becomes more expensive than a new car payment?

If I can get a drill, charger, case and 2 batteries for $99, what benefit is there in repairing a tool that will still be a used tool for $75 or more?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I would rather maintain a vehicle then have a truck payment.

Vehicles are one of the worst investments ever.

I would rather have one nice drill that takes less time to switch from a drill bit to a driver tip, then it does to pick one up, use it, set it down, grab the other one and use it, then set it down and pick the other one up use it and then set it down......


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I would rather maintain a vehicle then have a truck payment.
> 
> Vehicles are one of the worst investments ever.
> 
> ...


I'm driving an '01 with 164K on it, so I'm halfway on board with you. Once it starts costing me $450 or so a month to maintain, it's gone. 

As for the drills, I guarantee I can switch drills faster than switching bits with a 3 or 4 step process and I never fumble for the right bit.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

You both have valid points, if I am having to switch bits every minute or so, I want 2 drills handy, if I need to switch out occasionally I just carry 1 drill


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Chris Johnson said:


> You both have valid points, if I am having to switch bits every minute or so, I want 2 drills handy, if I need to switch out occasionally I just carry 1 drill


As an example, just today at the cut table...One drill with a 3/8 bit for boring countersinks, one with a Torx bit for screws to tack cutting jigs to the sheet, inside the building...one drill with a phillips tip for setting sheets another with a 5/64" drill bit for pre-drilling multiple thicknesses of metal, a corded drill for back screwing the sheets.

All the drills are neatly organized in holes atop 4' step ladders for easy grabbing.

If I had to do all that, all day long with one drill, I'd retire.:laughing:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

loneframer said:


> As an example, just today at the cut table...One drill with a 3/8 bit for boring countersinks, one with a Torx bit for screws to tack cutting jigs to the sheet, inside the building...one drill with a phillips tip for setting sheets another with a 5/64" drill bit for pre-drilling multiple thicknesses of metal, a corded drill for back screwing the sheets.
> 
> All the drills are neatly organized in holes atop 4' step ladders for easy grabbing.
> 
> If I had to do all that, all day long with one drill, I'd retire.:laughing:


Not to mention, you don't waste any time looking for bits that you just set down a second ago!!


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Warren said:


> Not to mention, you don't waste any time looking for bits that you just set down a second ago!!


:thumbup:

I use the Bosch drills for drill bits, DeWalts get the screw tips. Easy to remember which bit is in what drill that way.

The building I'm working on easily has more screws in it than I have installed in all my years in the trades, no lie, no doubt.

Right now, in Advantech alone, we are at 1100 sheets screwed, not to mention all the screws to erect the steel framing, roof framing, drywall, tile backer, cabinet backing, trim packers, extension jambs, etc., etc., etc.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Not to mention, you don't waste any time looking for bits that you just set down a second ago!!


That's the story of my life! :laughing:

No battery is going to last 10 years, switching drills is absolutely faster I'm with Lone on that....but I don't want to lug 4 drills up to the 20th floor of a condo that I'm parked over a block away from.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

the drills I use have way different set up to change from drill bits to drivers but, most of you guys would not want to use those bits for what you drill.

I can switch from a self center counter sink to a driver tip with one easy step, no messing around with a jacobs style key less chuck.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> That's the story of my life! :laughing:
> 
> No battery is going to last 10 years, switching drills is absolutely faster I'm with Lone on that....but I don't want to lug 4 drills up to the 20th floor of a condo that I'm parked over a block away from.


I agree, but when spread out over 3 or 4 floors, i leave 2 drills on each floor, good to go.:thumbsup:


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

I'm glad we don't use drills often.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I used to think the more drills the better. Now I'm trying to make my setup more compact so that I can carry more in less space. After using the festool drills I won't be lugging 4 drills around with multiple bits in them anymore. When you can have 1 tool that will do the job of 4 or more drills and as quick then there's no need for the extra exspense and wasted space. That way you get a good quality drill that performs much better than any combination of drills for the same money.


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## Shaker const. (May 2, 2011)

That house is awsome


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> I used to think the more drills the better. Now I'm trying to make my setup more compact so that I can carry more in less space. After using the festool drills I won't be lugging 4 drills around with multiple bits in them anymore. When you can have 1 tool that will do the job of 4 or more drills and as quick then there's no need for the extra exspense and wasted space. That way you get a good quality drill that performs much better than any combination of drills for the same money.


I use my impact drill more than anything....especially for cabinets and stainless steel screws. I find that the impact seems to reduce screws from snapping.

I saw the festool drill the other day, and the salesman claims that there's really no need for an impact if the drill has enough power.

What's your thoughts? If they last as long as some seem to say, then it'll be worth it, I'm just afraid I'll really miss the impact


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

srwcontracting said:


> I use my impact drill more than anything....especially for cabinets and stainless steel screws. I find that the impact seems to reduce screws from snapping.
> 
> I saw the festool drill the other day, and the salesman claims that there's really no need for an impact if the drill has enough power.
> 
> What's your thoughts? If they last as long as some seem to say, then it'll be worth it, I'm just afraid I'll really miss the impact


I'm waiting on the new festool range to come out before I jump in but I would still prob keep my impact close by. They are just so powerful for their compact size.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Shaker const. said:


> That house is awsome


:thumbsup:


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## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

srwcontracting said:


> I use my impact drill more than anything....especially for cabinets and stainless steel screws. I find that the impact seems to reduce screws from snapping.
> 
> I saw the festool drill the other day, and the salesman claims that there's really no need for an impact if the drill has enough power.
> 
> What's your thoughts? If they last as long as some seem to say, then it'll be worth it, I'm just afraid I'll really miss the impact


Wow, I am a little surprised at the Festools salesman's response. Sounds a little eager to sell his product and he overlooks the obvious.

-An impact driver does the work for you, drills do tend to twist or kick- back.

-Impacts have far more torque than drills (typically double). Even if a drill had the same torque, it would not work as well since it spins fully and not incrementally like an impact.

-Impacts are typically smaller, lighter, and more compact. Drills are not due to the gears and clutches.

Drills have their place in finish work and drilling. Impacts are great for most fastening applications.


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## ca90ss (Oct 14, 2010)

jiffy said:


> Wow, I am a little surprised at the Festools salesman's response. Sounds a little eager to sell his product and he overlooks the obvious.


I got pretty much the same response from the rep I talked to the other day as well. He did say they were working on an impact but didn't say when it would be available.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Since buying my Festool drill, I have given away my 2 impact drivers.

I found no advantage to having an impact driver along with my C-12.

Try one out, if you don't like it take it back within 30 days for a full refund.

I run every kind of GRK screw in with my C-12. From cabinet screws to trim head screws to 8" RSS structural screws.


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## Northwood (Jan 6, 2010)

The Festool drills seem very well designed. A digital stop instead of a clutch (less moving parts maybe more accurate) also stops the drill from overloading and burning out. And of course the adapters all seem handy and like they could save time and money (besides making work easier) all packed in convenient holders- a systainer.

The reason I have not bought one is not because
Of the cost but because they don't make other commonly used cordless tools. 

My Makita set has been flawless in the six yrs I've owned them but also way more usefull than I expected. Having a small bag with a drill, impact driver, circular saw, recip saw, and flashlight all ready to go with the same batteries and charger has been great! When the cut or hole you want to make often takes less time than plugging in a corded tool it simply saves a lot of time having them there. 

If Festool made a cordless circular saw and maybe a couple others I'd buy them.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Any cordless tool besides a drill, is a waste of a tool.

Plus, all their tools are designed for dust extraction, so a cordless saw or jig saw would be a PIA because you would have to turn the vac on and then go back to the tool.


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Any cordless tool besides a drill, is a waste of a tool.
> 
> Plus, all their tools are designed for dust extraction, so a cordless saw or jig saw would be a PIA because you would have to turn the vac on and then go back to the tool.


Speaking of that.....I saw the $1200 trim saw too with the vac system
Is that good enough to set up in someones kitchen, or is that expecting to much?
And looking at the saw, what makes it so superior? Is it easier to get parts or return if it stops adjusting to the right angle?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

srwcontracting said:


> Speaking of that.....I saw the $1200 trim saw too with the vac system
> Is that good enough to set up in someones kitchen, or is that expecting to much?
> And looking at the saw, what makes it so superior? Is it easier to get parts or return if it stops adjusting to the right angle?


I cut inside if there is room. I have had my Kapex for almost 2 years and it is still spot on. I do not treat it special either. 

There are too many things to list that it offers vs. other saws.

The big thing for me, is the weight, 47lbs. 

I will not go back to any other saw.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

My impacts are absolutely necessary. I use corded drills and screw gun as much as possible and try to allways have centralized location. But after I shake out all my doors in a big commercial building the last thing I want to do is drag a cord all over. 
when running a tek screw into a hollow metal door or putting in a but screw you want that impact not a cordless drill. A screw gun at 4500 rpms is the best choice but a impact at 1500 is the second. 
allot of my work is industrial buildings and there is no power to be found. And I dont want to carry a generator everywhere. Im very pleased with my makita impacts. I think that panasonic is better, but dont know if it would last that much longer than a makita and would not make it worth the difference in money.
Hiltis cordless rottary hammer saved me allot of money this year. I had about a mile of crash rail to install in cement walls at Harper hospital. There was outlets not that far away but after you factor in the time to run a cord and duct tape it to the floor (safety mandatory) it was worth buying the 24 volt drill. ats awesome for welded frames too.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I had never heard of festools until finding this forum as they are not widely available in my area. I looked into them and I just don't get it. My Bosch tools work great, and are less than half of the price. I have had my chop saw for 5 years and she (Caroline) is as true as ever, just finished a 8 inch stained maple crown job. So if I get another 3 years out of it which I believe to be more than possible, I have saved $1000 or so. 

I am very interested in warner's response to the cutting in the kitchen question. If that was the case it would be a huge time saver and much worth the extra money.

http://www.ohiohomedoctorremodeling.com


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I cut inside if there is room. I have had my Kapex for almost 2 years and it is still spot on. I do not treat it special either.
> 
> There are too many things to list that it offers vs. other saws.
> 
> ...


Weight for me is really important. Im usually lugging my saw up 5 flights of stairs and carrying it 100 or more yards. 
I could not be more happy with my makita lso714 I love it. I will give you that Kapex is the range rover of miter saws and if you want to spend the big bucks for the bells and whistles its the saw to buy. 
However allthough you can but it to a wall, and change the speed, and some other cool features its really hard to justify 1200 for a miter saw. There are so many other tools you could add to your aresenal with the difference in money. 
The most I would pay for that saw IMO is $700


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

detroit687 said:


> However allthough you can but it to a wall, and change the speed, and some other cool features *its really hard to justify 1200 for a miter saw*. There are so many other tools you could add to your aresenal with the difference in money.
> The most I would pay for that saw IMO is $700


Not when you use it every day. I have had almost all other saws out there and my Kapex is the only one I don't have to fiddle with. It is always right on the money.

It wouldn't have been my first Festool purchase but, it sure complimented the rest of my Festool's when I bought it.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I had never heard of festools until finding this forum as they are not widely available in my area. I looked into them and I just don't get it. My Bosch tools work great, and are less than half of the price. I have had my chop saw for 5 years and she (Caroline) is as true as ever, just finished a 8 inch stained maple crown job. So if I get another 3 years out of it which I believe to be more than possible, I have saved $1000 or so.
> 
> I am very interested in warner's response to the cutting in the kitchen question. If that was the case it would be a huge time saver and much worth the extra money.
> 
> http://www.ohiohomedoctorremodeling.com


The dust that the vac does not get, falls right behind the saw.
There is no fine air born dust. 

When I cut inside, I just lay a drop cloth under my MFT/3 and when I am finished, a couple seconds to vac off the mft and roll up the drop cloth. 

I do get weird looks from HO's when I bring my saw right into the room, after the first few cuts, they are truly amazed.


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## Northwood (Jan 6, 2010)

Saying "any cordless tool besides a drill is a waste of a tool" is a laughable comment. 
First of all you use the argument that the very expensive Festools save you time and therefore money. The very same point is true of cordless tools and an obvious fact to most anyone doing general construction. 
When going from room to room or even house to house and having multiple tradespeople it is very time consuming running cords, finding working outlets and even carrying all the tools themselves. Especially when the most suitable and fastest tool is only needed very often for such a short task Cordless tools allow each worker to have so many of the portable tools needed to complete most construction tasks in one trip (1 or 2 bags). 
No one would argue that a cordless circ. saw is good for framing. The lack of power is enough to make it too slow that it's useless. But having a circ. saw ready in a couple seconds at anytime is invaluable. Never mind how convenient they are for jobs were being powerful is not an issue. 
Drills still come with cords. Often a corded drill should be used when guys opt for a cordless. But the argument is exactly the same for whether they are a "waste of a tool."


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Northwood said:


> Saying "any cordless tool besides a drill is a waste of a tool" is a laughable comment.
> First of all you use the argument that the very expensive Festools save you time and therefore money. The very same point is true of cordless tools and an obvious fact to most anyone doing general construction.
> When going from room to room or even house to house and having multiple tradespeople it is very time consuming running cords, finding working outlets and even carrying all the tools themselves. Especially when the most suitable and fastest tool is only needed very often for such a short task Cordless tools allow each worker to have so many of the portable tools needed to complete most construction tasks in one trip (1 or 2 bags).
> No one would argue that a cordless circ. saw is good for framing. The lack of power is enough to make it too slow that it's useless. But having a circ. saw ready in a couple seconds at anytime is invaluable. Never mind how convenient they are for jobs were being powerful is not an issue.
> Drills still come with cords. Often a corded drill should be used when guys opt for a cordless. But the argument is exactly the same for whether they are a "waste of a tool."




Nice argument, but my vote is for warner on this one. At the end of the day if your to lazy to run cords you should be in a different business. Also, when you factor in the hassel of dealing with batteries and chargers it makes the time argument a wash.

http://www.ohiohomedoctorremodeling.com


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The dust that the vac does not get, falls right behind the saw.
> There is no fine air born dust.
> 
> When I cut inside, I just lay a drop cloth under my MFT/3 and when I am finished, a couple seconds to vac off the mft and roll up the drop cloth.
> ...




How much do you have in the combo (saw and back)? Is there anything else you need to make that setup work like that?

http://www.ohiohomedoctorremodeling.com


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I love how most everyone on here thinks their way is the best way and the only way. Cordless tools are great for many many jobs and not great at others. Just like corded tools. It all depends on what you do and how you do it that dictates what tools you should have. Some people really need to get over themselves.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Cordless tools are a novelty, not a necessity. However, I have a long list of cordless tools that are not drills that get used regularly.

Cordless circ. saw comes in handy at the lumber yard to cut down 18' lengths of Azek into rough random lengths, or clipping out double plates for proper lapping.

Reciprocating saw for the inevitable plate or two that didn't get cut out here and there on framing punchout, or lopping off a couple dozen white cedar fence posts at your parents house.:whistling

Flash light comes in very handy and it's nice to just grab it out of the bag along with a batt.

Jig saw for the occasional arched opening or oval window trim.

Impulse guns of any variety for quick mobilization.

Cordless vac for quick clean up of cabinet interiors.

Cordless right angle drill for tight spots.

Sometimes I have 4-5 drills out, along with a circ. saw and several routers with different bits in them.

It's a pleasure not having to have 8 or 9 cords around the table to trip over.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I have used most cordless receip. saws, they don't compare to one with a cord, the Circular saws are ok for a few cuts, they are just too slow for me.

I liked my impusle guns but, I grew tired of the smell and the loud bang.

I think having all those cordless tools is just a bunch of extra stuff you have to drag around with you.

I wouldn't want to show up to do something more then install a storm door, with nothing but cordless tools.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I have used most cordless receip. saws, they don't compare to one with a cord, the Circular saws are ok for a few cuts, they are just too slow for me.
> 
> I liked my impusle guns but, I grew tired of the smell and the loud bang.
> 
> ...


Cordless tools are not the future and they are not the end all/be all.

They do hold a valid seat in construction though and the technology keeps getting better.

My first cordless drill was the 9.6 Makita, when it was the ONLY game in town. What a difference from what's available now.

When I was framing, the cordless drills only came out for installing doors. Some of the buildings had 5 entry doors and as many as 12 sliders that had to be fully assembled. They were scattered over 3-4 floors, front to back of the building. 2 drills and 4 batteries got the job done with no down time and no fighting cords all day long. Circ. saw was nice for adding carpet shims under the entry doors and occasionally packing in an opening that got framed over-sized.

Recip. saw was nice for losing a bottom plate that got left in during construction.

True, corded tools would work just as well or better, but if everything you need fits into a canvas bag, all the better.


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## Northwood (Jan 6, 2010)

Everyone has made a lot of good points. Mine was just that I find a simple bag of cordless tools makes work a bit faster and therefore more profitable for myself... I appreciate all the the things Festool brings to the table and just wish they made more cordless so I could still have just one bag o' stuff!

Warner did you get rid of your Paslode cordless then? Do you miss them sometimes? Asking because I don't have any cordless nailers.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Northwood said:


> Everyone has made a lot of good points. Mine was just that I find a simple bag of cordless tools makes work a bit faster and therefore more profitable for myself... I appreciate all the the things Festool brings to the table and just wish they made more cordless so I could still have just one bag o' stuff!
> 
> Warner did you get rid of your Paslode cordless then? Do you miss them sometimes? Asking because I don't have any cordless nailers.


I sold them last year. No, I have not missed them, well I think one time I did but, I am perfectly happy using my air nailers. 

I try to buy nail guns with belt hooks or I add a tether to the gun that hooks on a clip.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't know Lone, I can fit one cordless drill w/ accessories, a circ saw, sawzall, jig saw and small extension cord in a pretty small canvas bag.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Northwood said:


> Everyone has made a lot of good points. Mine was just that I find a simple bag of cordless tools makes work a bit faster and therefore more profitable for myself... I appreciate all the the things Festool brings to the table and just wish they made more cordless so I could still have just one bag o' stuff!
> 
> Warner did you get rid of your Paslode cordless then? Do you miss them sometimes? Asking because I don't have any cordless nailers.


I had nothing but Impulse guns, then sold them for air a few years back...the only time I really missed the impulse was for the random door or window to trim three floors up commercially and exterior trim. Dragging the hose around doesn't bother me inside, but I seem to hate it outside.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Speaking of Paslode cordless, I had one of the old Black colored framing and trim guns, those were good, other than batteries the tool itself lasted 5+ years, batteries were a commodity and for about $ 40.00 you got a new one and it was good for a year or so.

When the new Orange ones came out...9-12 months and it was shot, worn out and jamming all the time, just not worth fixing.

I guess that explains why the originals were almost $1000.00 and the replacement Orange was $600.00!!


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

....all the paslodes I have owned are more then a year old and all work just fine.


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## W-Tinc (Feb 15, 2008)

The paslodes are picky, we have had a couple that just don't seem to work worth a crap even keeping them clean and lubed. 

An interesting thing happened yesterday, related more to throw away tools than cordless tools. Getting ready to shingle my roof I get out my old bostich roofing nailer that hasn't seen the light of day for over 10 years. 

Put some lubricant in it and hook up the air, about 10 nails shoot and the air starts leaking through it. The seals dried out and broke..try calling around to find parts or get it fixed..not happening without a good wait and I don't want to waste time.

So I run to the harbor freight a mile from my house..they have a roofing nailer that weighs half what my bostich does, with a 2 year extended warranty, for just under $100. I'll probably never use it again after finishing my roof.

Never bought any tools from there before..its amazing how much stuff they have in there for such low prices. Maybe its not such a bad idea to buy this cheap stuff and pitch it, or just get it replaced under warranty, when it breaks.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Would that be the red and silver roofing gun? Any good?

This one?
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/nailers-staplers/11-gauge-coil-roofing-nailer-68024.html

I have this one that came with my Husky 4 gallon a few years ago, buts is red and says Husky....It jams alot...but it did the one roof on a friends house I needed it to.
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...11-gauge-industrial-roofing-nailer-67450.html


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