# Ground/Neutral Pigtail ???



## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

Ok..we've all seen the dreaded neutral to ground screw pigtail...but...why the hell would anyone with a good ground in a metal box pigtail the neutral to the ground box screw?? It's also tripping (dead short) a 20 amp S/P breaker (MWC with no handle tie) even when everything is separated and in the clear ? It's also tripping the shared 20 amp breaker on same neutral even without the tie. Going back in late morning to figure out mystery.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Bubbles said:


> Ok..we've all seen the dreaded neutral to ground screw pigtail...but...why the hell would anyone with a good ground in a metal box pigtail the neutral to the ground box screw?? It's also tripping (dead short) a 20 amp S/P breaker (MWC with no handle tie) even when everything is separated and in the clear ? It's also tripping the shared 20 amp breaker on same neutral even without the tie. Going back in late morning to figure out mystery.



It IS what occurs at the Breaker Box!


----------



## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

Bubbles said:


> Ok..we've all seen the dreaded neutral to ground screw pigtail...but...why the hell would anyone with a good ground in a metal box pigtail the neutral to the ground box screw?? It's also tripping (dead short) a 20 amp S/P breaker (MWC with no handle tie) even when everything is separated and in the clear ? It's also tripping the shared 20 amp breaker on same neutral even without the tie. Going back in late morning to figure out mystery.


 
Well we expect a full detailed analysis when you figure out whats wrong 

All the years of remodeling I have never seen ANY outlets in a metal box be pigtailed to the nuetral. Maybe somebody lost the nuetral due to a nail penetrating the wire behind a wall....I am not an electrician but that would be my first guess.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Bubbles said:


> Ok..we've all seen the dreaded neutral to ground screw pigtail...but...why the hell would anyone with a good ground in a metal box pigtail the neutral to the ground box screw?? It's also tripping (dead short) a 20 amp S/P breaker (MWC with no handle tie) even when everything is separated and in the clear ? It's also tripping the shared 20 amp breaker on same neutral even without the tie. Going back in late morning to figure out mystery.


I'll bet you a nickel that someone replaced a receptacle served by both legs and didn't break out the tab, or they replaced a receptacle served by both legs with a GFCI and put both hots on the line side. I see that problem pretty often from flippers/rehabbers.


----------



## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

A.W.Davis said:


> All the years of remodeling I have never seen ANY outlets in a metal box be pigtailed to the nuetral.


same here


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Glasshousebltr said:


> same here


Hey Bob, long time no see. You out of jail now? :laughing:


----------



## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

:lol::lol:


----------



## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I don't think I fully understand what you're explaining here but I believe I can answer this:



> why the hell would anyone with a good ground in a metal box pigtail the neutral to the ground box screw??


To pass an inspection an inspector would use a plug-in type tester and check for proper wiring, equipment grounding conductor and all. By adding a bonding jumper (neutral to ground), doing this would accomplish what would appear to be a properly grounded receptacle.

You're losing me where this set up is creating a short circuit. Are you sure it's a short circuit and not a ground fault?

Good luck - you'll figure it out.


----------



## wireless (Nov 2, 2006)

Bubbles said:


> Ok..we've all seen the dreaded neutral to ground screw pigtail...but...why the hell would anyone with a good ground in a metal box pigtail the neutral to the ground box screw?? It's also tripping (dead short) a 20 amp S/P breaker (MWC with no handle tie) even when everything is separated and in the clear ? It's also tripping the shared 20 amp breaker on same neutral even without the tie. Going back in late morning to figure out mystery.


I had a call where some old cloth wiring burnt out years before I got there and someone "fixed" the problem by jumpering the neutral to ground. I was called because the hot finally burnt out.


----------



## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

Welcome home, Bob.


----------



## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

*Ground/Neutral*

Well, not much to report. We were kicked out by owner and maintainance guy. they said they would prefer to do any electrical needed by new tenant (my girlfriend). Anyhow, when she moves in then I'll sneak back in and figure out the problem. My father seemed to think it's a line to line short. Maybe it used to be a 220 volt fax machine on opp phases and the maint guy swapped it back and put them back on same phase or something. It still would kick out the shared hot as well even without a handle tie. Were going to look for some fishy things above acoustical as well. I'll report back when we check it out later. Thanks for tips in advance. Oh, btw the maintainance guy is also the painter, carpenter, drywaller, building supervisor etc...if you catch my drift...


----------



## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

That's why there's an electrical problem. If I were you I'd start isolating everything one splice at a time.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> why the hell would anyone with a good ground in a metal box pigtail the neutral to the ground box screw??


They had an open neutral and jumped to the ground to make it _work_. arty:


----------

