# Why the curl before it goes into the box.



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I remember Ontario Electrical Code having something requiring 6" slack before the wire enters the box...in case of future repair

Does add up to alot of wire on a whole house


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

remodelers know why...


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> I wasnt being a dick, I really dont know..If I remember correctly, it isnt, so isnt that a flaw in boxes? If a screw comes in from the back side of the box isnt there a good chance of hitting the wires?



I think so. :thumbup:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I like to leave some slack in the wire before it goes into the box but that is a waste of wire. With copper prices these days that really adds up throughout a home.


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## the catfish (Nov 30, 2007)

Ever go into an older home or building and not have enough wire left in a box to get to the back of the device you are trying to remove? Have one of the wires break off under a wire nut when you are removing it? Have a renegade router bid have it's way with your thhn? Remove the box hoping for some slack only to find none in the wall? It is the difference between changing out a switch in a few minutes and having to charge the homeowner to climb around their attic, fishing new romex, hoping there's no fire stopping. We bend our romex as if it were pipe, looks neater, just as fast, and eliminates the pinching of the wire on the edges of the holes drilled in the wood, staples too. It also gives us a few more inches of slack at the box and at each bend if we were to loosen the staples if need be while still on the rough. All 90's and 45's plus an exzagerated offset at the box.


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

22rifle said:


> Job I was on yesterday (I am doing the radiant heat on it.) had the wire in a little curl before it entered every box. Electrician wasn't there so I couldn't ask him why he did it that way but I am too curious so I decided to ask you guys. Why would he have done it this way?
> 
> (Ignore the white wire. It is a thermostat wire for a tankless water heater controller. It's the yellow romex in this picture.)



I thought this was a place for contractors. You know...people who actually know a thing or two, but lately some of these questions are so basic. "How do you clean the mud from your pan?" "How do you cut tighter miter joints?" "What's the loop in the wire for?" etc... It's starting to sound like a DIY website.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

So please explain what the loop is for...and while your at it, how do you clean the mud out of your pan...and is there a secret to getting tighter miters?


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

if there were not a staple between the box and the loop, I would ask you if the wire is pulled fully into the box. I have a terrrible time with rockers and their damn rotozips with 2+ inch bits tearing up the wire. If it was not pulled in all the way, this would protect it from being chewed near the back of the box. This way, if it is hit, as you pull it in, the chew spot would be far enough from the entrance point that it would be legal (obviously cutting the chew spot off).

BUT, since it is stapled between the box and the loop, I would have to go with Mickeyco's explanation.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> So please explain what the loop is for


Answered already (first response).




Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> ...and while your at it, how do you clean the mud out of your pan.


Disposable containers, I don't often use mud.




Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> ..and is there a secret to getting tighter miters?


Caulk.


.


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> So please explain what the loop is for...and while your at it, how do you clean the mud out of your pan...and is there a secret to getting tighter miters?


They've been answered to death in their respective threads. There's a search feature at the upper right of the screen. Check it out.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

I wasnt actually looking for answers..but I do not think the OP was asking a DIY question...If he asked how to install that box, or what height the box should be at, I would agree with BK, but he is just trying to increase his knowledge. What is so wrong with that?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> I wasnt actually looking for answers..but I do not think the OP was asking a DIY question...If he asked how to install that box, or what height the box should be at, I would agree with BK, but he is just trying to increase his knowledge. What is so wrong with that?


Maybe BK was in sarcasm mode?:whistling
The OP is a plumber, maybe making a point?


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## the catfish (Nov 30, 2007)

There is no staple between the box and the loop, it's for future slack! Look closely.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> I wasnt actually looking for answers..but I do not think the OP was asking a DIY question...If he asked how to install that box, or what height the box should be at, I would agree with BK, but he is just trying to increase his knowledge. What is so wrong with that?


 I believe you had posted the questions as rhetorical but realize that mickey's post was also tongue in cheek as well.

can't we all just get along? If a person does not want to participate in any given thread, there is nobody standing over you with a gun making you read and contribute to the thread.....


oh, I get it. There IS somebody thratening to blow your brains out if you don;t read this thread and contribute. Let us know where you live BKFranks and we'll send the police. Do you know any code you could use so they don;t catch on that you are turning them in to the police?


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

BKFranks said:


> I thought this was a place for contractors. You know...people who actually know a thing or two, but lately some of these questions are so basic. "How do you clean the mud from your pan?" "How do you cut tighter miter joints?" "What's the loop in the wire for?" etc... It's starting to sound like a DIY website.


22 was just curious


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

the catfish said:


> There is no staple between the box and the loop, it's for future slack! Look closely.


 
read closely!



> 06-18-2008, 05:09 PM #*7* 22rifle vbmenu_register("postmenu_454146", true);
> Pro
> Trade: Plumbing & HVAC, I specialize in Hydronic Heating and more specifically in Radiant Floor Heating
> 
> ...


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

Anyone here know how to read a tape measure? What are all those lines and numbers for?:whistling


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

BKFranks said:


> Anyone here know how to read a tape measure? What are all those lines and numbers for?:whistling


Jus' somethin' to more or less go by.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Whats a tape measure?


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## the catfish (Nov 30, 2007)

What's a tape measure?


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## hbiss (May 23, 2007)

I have no idea what the loop is for but I can tell you that it violates the 1-1/4" rule as it's shown. The back of a box does not have to be 1-1/4" or less from the edge of the stud like the cable has to. 

-Hal


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

hbiss said:


> I have no idea what the loop is for but I can tell you that it violates the 1-1/4" rule as it's shown. The back of a box does not have to be 1-1/4" or less from the edge of the stud like the cable has to.
> 
> -Hal


I don't do much resi work. Could you post the section that prohibits the installation as it is?


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Why do I have to worry about the guy 20 years from now and why he needs the slack? Is he gonna send me a check for the extra wire? This sounds lame if you ask me.


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## the catfish (Nov 30, 2007)

Great attitude, you should get far.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

the catfish said:


> Great attitude, you should get far.



Should I leave a couple feet extra in the panel too?


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## 415moto (Jun 6, 2006)

So whats the answer? You got some sparkies saying they dont know what its for, some who think the extra wire for future reason is lame, and if there is a staple before the loop and after, how would you pull it later ? Different things are the norm in different areas, learning benefits us all. Whats MDshunks take on it, hes one of the forums most knowledgable sparky.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I have seen this before on several of my jobs. I am surprised none of the electricians here know what it is for


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Mickey told us what it is for in the 2nd post of this thread:



mickeyco said:


> It's a loop, it's for mice, it's kind of like a roller coaster, weeeee. It slows the electricity down before it slams into the box and flies out (an electrical speed bump, if you will). If it was outside it would stop water following the cable into the box, maybe be the same inside? Maybe a little slack in case the box needs to moved a little (not that it would be the electricians fault)? A little slack in case a craigs list electrician does some work and a real electrician has to come out a fix it?
> 
> 
> .


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> Mickey told us what it is for in the 2nd post of this thread:



Wow I missed that that is exactly what it is. We call it a drip loop so the water doesn't follow the wire into the box.

Have seen it inside under tubs for the gfi, close to water heaters etc


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> Wow I missed that that is exactly what it is. We call it a drip loop so the water doesn't follow the wire into the box.
> 
> Have seen it inside under tubs for the gfi, close to water heaters etc


if this is a drip loop, it isn't going to do any good. A drip loop will allow the water to shed off, true, but since these loops are directly over the box, when the water sheds, it will drip onto the box and subsequently run into the box.


next possibility 'cuz the drip loop is not working.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Ok I give I don't know either I'm just a remodeler lol:laughing:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

415moto said:


> Whats MDshunks take on it, hes one of the forums most knowledgable sparky.


I have no idea. Looks like a guy with too much time on his hands, if you ask me. 

Some guys do leave box slack as "rotozip insurance" in the form of a "Z" shape, but I've never seen the loop-dee-doo thing. That's just weird. Here's what I normally observe, when I guy is leaving slack at each box:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

mdshunk said:


> I have no idea. Looks like a guy with too much time on his hands, if you ask me.
> 
> Some guys do leave box slack as "rotozip insurance" in the form of a "Z" shape, but I've never seen the loop-dee-doo thing. That's just weird. Here's what I normally observe, when I guy is leaving slack at each box:


 This is a method i prefer myself and use often, not as much waste as a loop and it keeps the wire going straight into the box instead of an angle. I keep my Z smaller too and the i keep the wire on a 90 deg angle. Yesterday i was in Home Depot and noticed all the MC for the lighting and other various circuits all had loops on them whether it was at the fixture or where it came out of the EMT. ????? why they did it but i just happened to notice it.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

woodchuck2 said:


> This is a method i prefer myself and use often, not as much waste as a loop and it keeps the wire going straight into the box instead of an angle. I keep my Z smaller too and the i keep the wire on a 90 deg angle. Yesterday i was in Home Depot and noticed all the MC for the lighting and other various circuits all had loops on them whether it was at the fixture or where it came out of the EMT. ????? why they did it but i just happened to notice it.


a lot of that type of install uses Re-Loc or other systems with pre-made lengths of MC type material with connectors on the ends that clip together. The loops are simply part of the beast since the length is pre-determined and the excess simply gets wound into loops and zip tied.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

woodchuck2 said:


> Yesterday i was in Home Depot and noticed all the MC for the lighting and other various circuits all had loops on them whether it was at the fixture or where it came out of the EMT. ????? why they did it but i just happened to notice it.


They were either Reloc whips, or someone at their shop prefabbed the whips on all the lights and skinned out one end to terminate. Faster and easier to tie up the excess rather than reterminate it. They were probably Reloc whips, however. If you have cord and plug connected fixtures, such as the Reloc system, a regular custodian can swap out a whole failed fixture and an electrician can repair them _en masse_ on the ground some day down the road.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

woodchuck2 said:


> This is a method i prefer myself and use often, not as much waste as a loop and it keeps the wire going straight into the box instead of an angle. I keep my Z smaller too and the i keep the wire on a 90 deg angle.


Yeah, that's not my work, but it was a picture I could snag quick that showed an example. I don't always leave slack at the box. Depends on how big a hurry I'm in. It sure is quicker to leave slack at the box, since you don't have to be at all particular where you start skinning out the cable.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

The Reloc Whips make sense, i never gave that a thought. Thats the difference between residential and commercial wiring. I stick with the residential, i dont have alot of experience with commercial.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> They were either Reloc whips, or someone at their shop prefabbed the whips on all the lights and skinned out one end to terminate. Faster and easier to tie up the excess rather than reterminate it. They were probably Reloc whips, however. If you have cord and plug connected fixtures, such as the Reloc system, a regular custodian can swap out a whole failed fixture and an electrician can repair them _en masse_ on the ground some day down the road.


Yep, I axed, that and when they relocate aisles they move the lights sometimes.


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## Hawkeye_Pierce (Jun 19, 2006)

people like to do cool looking bullsh-t that makes there install different and makes them feel cool yet serves absolutely no purpose. This is another example!


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## Rockhound (Jul 12, 2007)

nap said:


> if there were not a staple between the box and the loop, I would ask you if the wire is pulled fully into the box. I have a terrrible time with rockers and their damn rotozips with 2+ inch bits tearing up the wire. If it was not pulled in all the way, this would protect it from being chewed near the back of the box. This way, if it is hit, as you pull it in, the chew spot would be far enough from the entrance point that it would be legal (obviously cutting the chew spot off).
> 
> BUT, since it is stapled between the box and the loop, I would have to go with Mickeyco's explanation.


 
:laughing: we use the 1/4 inch door and window bits so if we get caught inside the box it will just eat right back out :laughing: 

nah just kidding. we measure to the outside of the box,or light, and mark it on the rock so we DONT chew up wires especially in renos where the damn things are STILL HOT!!:furious: jeez man... butchers make it tough on all of us. we also use our hammer handles to push the wire deeper into the box. I said push not ram.


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