# * Travertine Tile Intall Tips *



## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

Hey guys, getting ready to pull up builder grade laminate hardwood in my kitchen and put down tile. I was pretty well set to go with 16x16 ceramic, but upon the trip to HD I found that they had some beautiful 18x18 trav on sale for $1.99 sq ft. For the extra couple hundred bucks [i have about 250sq ft] I think it is a no brain-er to go with the trav. I have done many ceramic tile jobs over the years and a few slate floors, but never Trav itself. 

From searching/reading other threads here it seems that it is best to seal before grouting--and again after [going for the wet look]. Just wondering if some of you more versed pros could offer any other practical app tips? Also doing some coil heating around the island and appliance areas. Any recommendations for that, and for the backer board. Also planning on using a darker grey grout. Many thanks in advance! --Steve


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Over slab or framing?


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

over framing-


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Just keep in mind that travertine scratches easily. Depending on the wear and tear you're kitchen will be getting I usually recommend against travertine in the kitchen for large families w/ young children.

That being said, you will want a good solid foundation for the installation of such large tile. Depending on the type of subfloor you have and the type and spacing of the joists you may have to install another layer of plywood over what you already have top stiffen up the floor. Obviously you will need to cut these w/ a wet saw and they generally cut very nicely. 

1/2 x 1/2 trowel and back buttering the tile will help you to end up w/ a nice even surface using such large tile.

Seal these w/ a solvent based high quality sealer before grouting and I generally wipe the tile w/ a damp sponge right before I grout and this seems to help to clean these up a little easier. After the tile is cleaned up and dry for 24 hours seal again w/ the same sealant.

Are these rough pitted tile, honed and filled, or polished tile?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Before you get all hyped about cheap travertine, you need to know your deflection rating.

Natural stone needs no less than a L/720. Most homes are _not_ built that way.

If you don't know, get this info:

Joist size:
Joist spacing:
Longest unsupported span:
Species:
Current subfloor material:


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Subfloor deflection is going to be your biggest concern.

At least another layer of plywood before installing your underlayment - have you thought about Ditra?


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Nevermind what I said....Angus is the master at this, and he's giving you all the info you need to obtain. :thumbup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

HandyHails said:


> Seal these w/ a solvent based high quality sealer before grouting


I never use solvent-based. Water-based is safer to use, especially in the winter where, chances are, the sealing would be performed. 

An additional layer of plywood will not fix a under structured joist system.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

angus242 said:


> I never use solvent-based. Water-based is safer to use, especially in the winter where, chances are, the sealing would be performed.
> 
> *An additional layer of plywood will not fix a under structured joist system*.


That's why I said _"at least". :laughing:_


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Mark, question. When you spec'd the addition did you have to list the subfloor deflection on the plans anywhere? And please don't tell me to look at that pics. Look at blue prints is the same as me trying to read Russian......upside down....drunk :w00t:


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

angus242 said:


> I never use solvent-based. Water-based is safer to use, especially in the winter where, chances are, the sealing would be performed.
> 
> An additional layer of plywood will not fix a under structured joist system.


I've been using a solvent based Tec Enhancing Sealer for a while now and it goes on beautifully. No streaks or "shiners". Just spray on and wipe w/ a terry cloth rag moist w/ the sealant. Buff 15 minutes later and its just beautiful. This is the stuff my supplier recommends for their honed and filled travertine. Pricey, but a little bit goes a long way. Wear rubber gloves or your hands will be a bit sticky after a few hundred square feet.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Mark, question. When you spec'd the addition did you have to list the subfloor deflection on the plans anywhere? And please don't tell me to look at that pics. Look at blue prints is the same as me trying to read Russian......upside down....drunk :w00t:


No, I didn't. Why do you ask?


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

HandyHails said:


> Just keep in mind that travertine scratches easily. Depending on the wear and tear you're kitchen will be getting I usually recommend against travertine in the kitchen for large families w/ young children.
> 
> That being said, you will want a good solid foundation for the installation of such large tile. Depending on the type of subfloor you have and the type and spacing of the joists you may have to install another layer of plywood over what you already have top stiffen up the floor. Obviously you will need to cut these w/ a wet saw and they generally cut very nicely.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, I have read that they do scratch easy. My wife and I have no children, and are not planning on having any for a couple years...the dogs are also not allowed on the kitchen, so I am not worried about those possible issues. We have a plan to move within 5-7 years as well--obviously that can change in this market though 

My home was built less than 5 years ago, it has a pretty thick sub-floor and spacing of 14in on the floor joists. I am thinking with the thicker hardy backer I should be good...?

The tile at HD appear to be rough pitted...

Thank you very much for responding-highly appreciated!


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I love StoneTech Professional Enhancer. Not only an easy formula to work with, but does a great job enhancing natural stone. No nasty solvents to deal with. :thumbsup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

SpecialistSteve said:


> My home was built less than 5 years ago, it has a pretty thick sub-floor and spacing of 14in on the floor joists. I am thinking with the thicker hardy backer I should be good...?


Noooooooooooooooo

CBU is _not _structural. Serious, this is why I drink 

If you're not willing to divulge your deflection ratio, nor care about it, good luck with your Holiday Inn Express install.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Noooooooooooooooo
> 
> *CBU is not structural*. Serious, this is why I drink
> 
> If you're not willing to divulge your deflection ratio, nor care about it, good luck with your Holiday Inn Express install.


Now you tell me, all the headers in my new addition are made up of laminated pieces of 1/4" wonderboard.....:blink:


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Here is a calculator I have found helpful.


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Before you get all hyped about cheap travertine, you need to know your deflection rating.
> 
> Natural stone needs no less than a L/720. Most homes are _not_ built that way.
> 
> ...


 
I am checking into this right now, I know the joist spacing is 14in between, but have to figure out the subfloor material/thickness...thanks very much and I will report what I find in a bit. Glad to be getting all this info before I purchase and begin.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Now you tell me, all the headers in my new addition are made up of laminated pieces of 1/4" wonderboard.....:blink:


Stop it....:laughing:


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Noooooooooooooooo
> 
> CBU is _not _structural. Serious, this is why I drink


You drink because CBU is not structural..... that's a good idea.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Good a reason as any I guess.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Paulie said:


> You drink because CBU is not structural..... that's a good idea.


Apparently he is pretty distraught over it....:laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hey, it's _my _excuse. Get yer own :whistling


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

HandyHails said:


> is a calculator I have found helpful.


 
Thanks a lot!

Here are the results:

Thank you for using the John Bridge Forums Deflect-O-Lator 
For joists that are Unknown wood, but in good condition, 7.25 inches tall, 1.5 inches wide, 16 inches on center, and 5 feet long between supports, the deflection calculated is 0.036 inches.
This translates to a deflection of L / 1650.
Since the maximum deflection for tile is L / 360, and for natural stone is L / 720, your floor is rated for Ceramic tile or Natural stone, Congratulations!


Also pretty well positive that the joists are Fir and the distance is far greater between supports--but wanted to calculate worst case...I'll find out further info--the Subfloor is 1in thick. Thank you guys again.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

SpecialistSteve said:


> and 5 feet long between supports
> 
> and the distance is far greater between supports--but wanted to calculate worst case..


Hmmmm....are you SURE about that. 5' is worst case? 5 feet?


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Hmmmm....are you SURE about that. 5' is worst case? 5 feet?


 
At this point I am...I will find out for certain though.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Hmmmm....are you SURE about that. 5' is worst case? 5 feet?



I was waiting for you to say it.


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Hmmmm....are you SURE about that. 5' is worst case? 5 feet?


 
Opppps, facepalm!

I suppose that would be a really solid worst case, huh...


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

Any idea how I can get the actual distance, my home is walkout with an unfinished basement so I can see the floor joists.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Simply measure the distance between where the joist sits from the exterior wall to what I would assume would be the metal I-beam it rests on the other end. Really basic stuff here.


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## SpecialistSteve (Jan 14, 2011)

Yea, it's 16'...but I read the fine print on the calc and apparently I shouldn't be using it because I have engineered Trusses.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

I'm out.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

You should be able to see the manufacturer name stamped on them somwhere. Call them with the same dimensions I asked about and they will give you the deflection ratio. 

I'll bet ya a beer you won't be anywhere near L/720. Start looking at porcelain.


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