# Electrical Newb Question



## myshtern (Jun 18, 2007)

We have some sauna heaters that are require 110v and 45amperes. In most scenarios, we'll have about 15-35 feet from the sauna heater to the breaker box. We'll be using double pole 50amp breakers. What gauge should our wiring be?

I've looked up 3 tables online and they all give difference size wires. I am guessing 6 gauge would be safe?

I know very little about electrical wiring so try to break it down for me if you're going to talk about it in detail. Thanks for the help


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Conductors in conduit, or NM cable?

Consequently, the statement, "I know very little about electrical wiring...", makes me wonder why your electrician isn't taking care of this?


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## frenchelectrica (Sep 26, 2003)

Did you say 120v 45 amp for sauna room ?? 

IMO most are wired for 240 volts i really dont recall see that wired for 120 volt unless it very rare beast and genrally the electrician will take care of hooking up and used the proper wire size to run this 

Merci , Marc


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## myshtern (Jun 18, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> Conductors in conduit, or NM cable?
> 
> Consequently, the statement, "I know very little about electrical wiring...", makes me wonder why your electrician isn't taking care of this?


Either one

Remarks like that are why a lot of people stay away from the forum. 

It's 110v, 40amps.


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## MSSI (Mar 25, 2006)

So you will be using double pole breakers for 110.....???Dont be so offended if you get an attitude in here...This forum is for professional electricians that dont necessarialy feel like dragging the correct info needed from you to answer your question...I would suggest a DIY forum to post your question, But based on the question and statements themselves, it appears you have no buisness going near electrical installations at all. Hows your life and fire insurance:clap:


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## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

myshtern said:


> I know very little about electrical wiring so try to break it down for me if you're going to talk about it in detail. Thanks for the help


Remarks like this make real experienced contractors very uncomfortable giving advise to a contractor that sounds like he has the ability to burn someones house down because he is trying to save a buck or two working on a medium (electricity in this case) that he probably really shouldn't be doing legally.


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## myshtern (Jun 18, 2007)

Guys, I'm not a contractor, I'm a developer. We'll probably be putting about 30 of these saunas in and I'm seeing differing talk about wire thickness so I came here. 

I think most of the folks here are professionals thats why I come here to ask questions once in a while. But holy ****, half the people who posted in this thread could have answered my question in one or two sentences, instead you guys show each other how great you are. 

I really don't care about any of your opinions on the matter, I'm here strictly for electrical knowledge. If you don't want to share your knowledge go to back to work and dont pollute my thread. If you don't want to answer the question just don't post in the thread.


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## oldnslw (Sep 3, 2007)

I have been reading this forum for a while. I had to register to respond to this one....


As a developer why would you care what size wire your electrician installed, as long as it was to code??

Normally, with the quality developers I deal with, they along with their architect and engineers incorporate changes like this into the design. 

The electric service is sized accordingly and it is installed aproprately.

Now their are some "HACKS" out there that like to do this kind of thing themselves after the fact. This puts added bucks in their pockets by not hiring the proper professionals to do it right and to code.

Now you are not one of these are you??


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

Table 310.16 for wire ampacity's
334.80 for romex restrictions
And the rating of the equipment you intend to install also determines wire size, i.e. lug temperature rating
And also because saunas get hot, the temperature correction factors may also apply.


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## MSSI (Mar 25, 2006)

*Its not a simple answer*,,,Sorry..You just need to know basic electrical here...First, you dont use a 2 pole breaker on 110..It matters what type of wire you are using and weather its in conduit...You could have said what size breaker is used to protect #6 nm vs #8 nm. That would give you a simple answer...

Your not getting an answer because you are not giving us the whole story. 

If your gonna insist on doing this yourself, At least get an Electrician in there to do this properly on the first couple saunas so you can copy the proper methods...


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

I am not a electrician, licensed or otherwise. I am however a licensed contractor. Your type of question is usually asked by a person who is not hiring a licensed person or firm to do the work. Usually that person has no idea what is required to perform the job safely, or to code. Permits are usually not pulled nor is the work inspected. We may refer to that person as a hack or other more common terms, often using shorter words. I suggest contacting your electrician to answer that question. He knows you, and will not upset you by using rude names or questioning your motives. He may also be able to give you a rough idea as to the price of this upgrade. Adding more of an electrical draw may increase other factors of the job. 

Personallly, I think you are a home owner or handy hack who is looking for free advice, so you can do the job yourself to save a dollar, and to heck with the consequences. If this is the case, go to Home Cheapo or Lowes Baller. Their advice is worth what it costs you. If you are a legitmate developer, I apologize in advance. 

fireguy


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

I don't apologize if he's a developer, what does that mean anyway?
He's not a contractor and not an investor, just a middle man.
The motive of the question remains; either have the temp labor do it, or low ball his electrical sub


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

myshtern said:


> Either one


Then you'll get two different answers. The ampacity charts for those are different. 



myshtern said:


> Remarks like that are why a lot of people stay away from the forum.


I dunno. Wasn't a remark as much as it was a question. I just wondered why you felt the need to know exactly what your electrician was going to do, when you don't have a clue yourself. There are a lot of people on the forum. The people that stay away are the DIY's, and I kinda like it that way.


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## MSSI (Mar 25, 2006)

..or you could ask the moron who speced out a 120v 45A sauna system instead of 240 @ 22.5A Whats the point of that anyway?.. Cheaper?... Thats another reason I believe we are missing something


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## myshtern (Jun 18, 2007)

Thanks sparky, I got what I needed there. 

Maybe it will help if I give you guys the whole story so that future questions are not ridiculed? 

We develop our own real estate so I guess you could call me a general contractor. We've been working with popular sauna's we've been importing (our 2nd business retails construction materials, mostly bathroom fixtures). I've been considering the possibility of using some of our pre-fabbed saunas in some of our homes. I have an electrician coming in tomorrow to install one of our saunas in our warehouse so that we can do a durability test and see what we need to look out for. 

I posted this question simply because I was seeing different numbers for wire thickness and wanted a confirmation. Also, I didnt know it was frowned upon just to learn something for the sake of knowledge in the world of contractors. 

To those of you who refused to help on the principle that you thought you know everything, I hope this goes to show you that you're never going to guess everyone's situation and you don't know 1/10th of the bigger picture. 

Even though we do have a licensed and experienced electrician coming tomorrow, this isnt a typical wiring job so I'll need to double check what he does. Believe it or not, you contractors do F*%k up quite a bit 



> ..or you could ask the moron who speced out a 120v 45A sauna system instead of 240 @ 22.5A Whats the point of that anyway?.. Cheaper?


Yes the heaters become a bit cheaper. Although the 120v is less efficient, in a residential application the difference is negligible. On average it comes out to being about .5 cents per use (average 10 cents per year) whereas our customers save about $30 up front.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

myshtern said:


> Even though we do have a licensed and experienced electrician coming tomorrow, this isnt a typical wiring job so I'll need to double check what he does.


Sorry you feel that way. Yes, this is a normal wiring job. Normal as can be. If you hire a competant person, there are no worries. If you're worried, then you're either a micro-manager or you've hired the wrong guy.

You must know that without the additional information that you just provided, you were begging for the responses you got. Surely you've been around a forum a bit before, so I'm not sure why you're so surprised at the response. It is completely natural and normal for a person to have concluded that you were going to wire this thing up yourself. Future questions, lacking the appropriate information to fill in the blanks, will surely suffer similar ridicule. For that, I offer no apology.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

myshtern said:


> Even though we do have a licensed and experienced electrician coming tomorrow, this isnt a typical wiring job so I'll need to double check what he does. Believe it or not, you contractors do F*%k up quite a bit


then pay more money...the guys who don't F*%k up cost more then the one's who do...simple fact of life...

I say this knowing that most guys to resi new construction electric are usually neither a contractor, nor an electrician. They are usually installers...


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

myshtern said:


> To those of you who refused to help on the principle that you thought you know everything, I hope this goes to show you that you're never going to guess everyone's situation and you don't know 1/10th of the bigger picture.


Why is it when some folks don't get the answers they were looking for they make stupid a$$ statements like this?


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

myshtern said:


> Yes the heaters become a bit cheaper. Although the 120v is less efficient, in a residential application the difference is negligible. On average it comes out to being about .5 cents per use (average 10 cents per year) whereas our customers save about $30 up front.


So you would spec out a 45A/120v appliance as opposed to a 22A/240v appliance over a $30 savings??? THAT in itself IS inefficient.


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

Speedy Petey said:


> Why is it when some folks don't get the answers they were looking for they make stupid a$$ statements like this?


Well he really did "show" me, so my lips are sealed


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