# Electrical wire sizing



## nick114920 (Sep 24, 2007)

This thread is getting out of control... Heres one id love to hear... #14 wire cannot carry 20 amps... no way... house burning down (as shown in pictures).. and DEATH!!!! Did anyone ever wonder when your running you extra thick (safe as can be) #12 wire to your light fixtures.. the wires you tie into on the light fixtures are No where No way even close to a #14.... they look like 16 or 18 (or even 20 sometimes) wires.... lets fight this one out... and hope all our houses dont burn down in the mean time :thumbup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

nick114920 said:


> Did anyone ever wonder when your running you extra thick (safe as can be) #12 wire to your light fixtures.. the wires you tie into on the light fixtures are No where No way even close to a #14.... they look like 16 or 18 (or even 20 sometimes) wires.... lets fight this one out... and hope all our houses dont burn down in the mean time :thumbup:





nick114920 said:


> I am 24... I remodel houses and never spent a day in school for it... I kinda learn as i go and if i dont know things i come to places like this to find out... with that said... anyone have any useful information??? Or should i say... do any of you licensed guys even know what im talking about???


I think that says it all.

You come here looking for advice/help/suggestions..and then **** on those offering their advice/help/suggestions.


Good luck - you're gonna need a lot of it.


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## nick114920 (Sep 24, 2007)

Thats all you have to say?? Pro pie tester....... Says it all you fat


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

nick114920 said:


> Thats all you have to say?? Pro pie tester....... Says it all you fat


You actually think I'm a pie taster?
:laughing: :lol: :laughing:
LMAO

You really haven't a clue....and absolutely no chance of buying one.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

nick114920 said:


> This thread is getting out of control... Heres one id love to hear... #14 wire cannot carry 20 amps... no way... house burning down (as shown in pictures).. and DEATH!!!! Did anyone ever wonder when your running you extra thick (safe as can be) #12 wire to your light fixtures.. the wires you tie into on the light fixtures are No where No way even close to a #14.... they look like 16 or 18 (or even 20 sometimes) wires.... lets fight this one out... and hope all our houses dont burn down in the mean time :thumbup:


Stop trying to justify your ineptness with what you think is logic.

You want code quotes and facts? We got 'em. What would you do with them though? You'd find a way to justify to yourself that they are wrong.

Just go do whatever the hell you want and codes be damned. You know better, right?


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## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

*Wire mixing*

Here is a reason not to mix. Troubleshoot call. Dimmer getting hot. Show up and measure 18.2 amps on #14 wire. Wire actually looked ok but dimmer looked like the Blob. New homeowners remodeled bath and took old 60watt light and replaced with 35ish 60watt bulbs around mirrors. Thats why its code. Here is a question for an exception. Why can you run #6 home run to first pole light in parking lot on 30 amp 2pole breaker and then just use #12 to fixture? Outside? in Metal raceway? Just curious why that is exception.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Bubbles said:


> Here is a reason not to mix. Troubleshoot call. Dimmer getting hot. Show up and measure 18.2 amps on #14 wire. Wire actually looked ok but dimmer looked like the Blob. New homeowners remodeled bath and took old 60watt light and replaced with 35ish 60watt bulbs around mirrors. Thats why its code. Here is a question for an exception. Why can you run #6 home run to first pole light in parking lot on 30 amp 2pole breaker and then just use #12 to fixture? Outside? in Metal raceway? Just curious why that is exception.



Voltage drop.

The smaller the wire the more resistance for electrons to pass through.

And if you're reading 18.2 amps on a 120 volt circuit, the problem isn't the amperage on the wire, the problem is the dimmer isn't rated for 2184 watts!!! All dimmers have a wattage rating on them, did you bother to check for that? I ran into this problem the other day. Some "electrician" installed a 600 WATT timer for a toe-kick heater that operated at 1800 watts full-load. It was installed in the spring, but not used until the other day. Lady came running into the house I was working in next door in a panic. Fortuneatly I was able to help her and resolve the problem.

As for the rest of this thread, #14 awg is good for 20 amps under certain conditions, such as for A/C Condensing units ands motors. The same can be applied to #12 wire, it too has an ampacity of up to 25 amps under certain conditions. Where is the list of these certain conditions? NEC Table 240.4 (G). For all other branch circuit applications #14 shall be protected by 15 amp circuit breakers and #12 by a 20 amp breaker. That what the little asterisk is for in NEC Table 310.16.

If you're electrician does not know this maybe it's time for you GC's to hire an electrician who does.


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

14-2 is rated for a 15amp circuit ,which in effect can carry 1000 watts = 10-100 watt lights ? Making it more than suitable for a lighting circuit ? Even though the bath should have a 20 amp branch circuit for receptacles, replacing a standard receptacle with a 15 amp GFI would be safer than not doing anything if rewiring is not an option ?, using line terminals only. By the way nick you should use 20ga speaker wire it will work great!


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

A 15 amp circuit breaker, operating at 120 volts, can hold up to 1800 watts.

As long as these lights will not operate for more than 3 hours continuously.

Amps x Volts = Watts


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Good discussion going bad quickly.

Keep it professional and respectful. 

<tweets whistle> 

Play ball!!


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## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

*Dimmer*

Yes Mag I caught that. They had a 300 watt one currently. I gave her 3 options. 2000 watt industrial (and take a few bulbs out or lower wattage), Run a new circuit (finished basment 2nd Flr bath), or put a 1000 watt dimmer in and change bulbs out to 25 watt each. She liked the last one. Seemed to solve problem for now since she hasnt called back. We changed the 20 amp breaker to a 15amp as well since in was on #14.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> I ran into this problem the other day. Some "electrician" installed a 600 WATT timer for a toe-kick heater that operated at 1800 watts full-load. It was installed in the spring, but not used until the other day. Lady came running into the house I was working in next door in a panic. Fortuneatly I was able to help her and resolve the problem.
> 
> As for the rest of this thread, #14 awg is good for 20 amps under certain conditions, such as for A/C Condensing units ands motors. The same can be applied to #12 wire, it too has an ampacity of up to 25 amps under certain conditions. Where is the list of these certain conditions? NEC Table 240.4 (G). For all other branch circuit applications #14 shall be protected by 15 amp circuit breakers and #12 by a 20 amp breaker. That what the little asterisk is for in NEC Table 310.16.


I think all heaters are considered a continous load so you have to figure 125% of the amps for the wire size. 

Speaking of wire thats to small your service entrence cable is bigger then the wire comming off the pole because its considered a open air contuctor. So the air will cool it if it warms any but air cant cool it in the pipe so it needs to be larger so It doesnt warm up.


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## jrclen (Jul 10, 2007)

Michaeljp86 said:


> Yes you are correct 14 will take 20 amp but what happens when the wires get a bend which is where the problems start? If the wires are oversized like a 12 a bend isnt a problem.


Oh yeah, I forgot, motor circuits are always installed without bends.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Speedy Petey said:


> Does it concern anyone else that an "Electrical Supervisor" is asking this question?
> 
> Shouldn't a supervisor be the one _answering_ this type of question? :whistling


You mean an electrical supervisor would know these things Speedy? 

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