# urethane oil base/freezing temps



## randrohe (Jan 6, 2009)

I have a gallon that has been exposed (in the van) to about 2 weeks of below freezing (20 degrees) temps..Can I still use it? how about storage of oil based products in general? Do they have to be stored above freezing?
Thanks
Rand


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## Faron79 (Nov 29, 2007)

I'm NOT trying to be harsh here, but you're a "painter" and don't know the answer to this?!

Faron


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## frugalpaint (Dec 30, 2010)

Hey Rand, better take care of your paint. Sherwin Williams would love to sell you a new can for $45.00.


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## SalG (Dec 23, 2010)

Your varnish should be fine. Unless the oil freezes, which is highly unlikely at those temps, the chemical structure of the blend should not be affected by crystallization or other means. "Varnish is traditionally a combination of a drying oil, a resin and a thinner or solvent."(1) In other words, it's just liquid plastic in a petroleum-based carrier.

(1) Source: Wikipedia


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## randrohe (Jan 6, 2009)

yeah, i hear you on the "your a painter, you should know that."
i always do the pre-winter shuffle of bringing all paints inside, but these got overlooked.
Thanks for the tip Sal..
So, would this apply to all oil base products??
I've got 15 years experience and a whole pile of basic questions..
I try and space them apart so I don't appear to totally clueless..


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## SalG (Dec 23, 2010)

Rand,

I wouldn't take what I've said about the varnish as gospel - it is only an educated conclusion based on the disclosed rationale. If you want to be absolutely sure about it so that there are no surprises in the long-term future, your best bet is to call the mfr's technical support and ask them. Let us know what they have to say . . .

Cheers.



randrohe said:


> yeah, i hear you on the "your a painter, you should know that."
> i always do the pre-winter shuffle of bringing all paints inside, but these got overlooked.
> Thanks for the tip Sal..
> So, would this apply to all oil base products??
> ...


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## randrohe (Jan 6, 2009)

Minwax suggested that since it has been exposed to extreme temps., the chemical composition may have changed and suggested not using it..
I guess I'll save it for my own projects...
I asked for signs of damage and she said if I open it and it it is frozen or has chunks, it's a no go....
I really didn't expect them to say anything different that that, just covering their ass...
This applies to their oil base stains also...
Any real world experiences??
Thanks again for your feedback
Rand


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

randrohe said:


> Minwax suggested that since it has been exposed to extreme temps., the chemical composition may have changed and suggested not using it..
> I guess I'll save it for my own projects...
> I asked for signs of damage and she said if I open it and it it is frozen or has chunks, it's a no go....
> I really didn't expect them to say anything different that that, just covering their ass...
> ...


Naturally, they'd like you to buy more materials.

I'm just curious if anyone knows the temperature at which oil-based polyurethane would actually freeze. The MSDS doesn't list one, but my guess it would be well below 0 F. All of my oil-base material lives in the unheated part of the shop and I've never had any sign of damage from temperatures in the range your product has been subjected to. I found that even latex often won't freeze until the low 20s. It's not as if it's just water, it's got lots of other solvents and solutes which all lower the freezing temperature.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

randrohe said:


> I've got 15 years experience and a whole pile of basic questions..
> I try and space them apart so I don't appear to totally clueless..


LOL, me too!

I store all my oil based products in an unheated garage, and have for years..w/no problems...even after -10 or -15 for days.

(the truck won't start, but the paint's ok):thumbsup:


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Gough said:


> I found that even latex often won't freeze until the low 20s. It's not as if it's just water, it's got lots of other solvents and solutes which all lower the freezing temperature.


I've had latex freeze, and successfully thaw.

One time I froze a 5 solid, it turned into cottage cheese.

I still tried to revive it for about a week.


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## painter213 (Nov 2, 2008)

Your oil is not going to Freeze. In products with Iso's then the Iso will form crystals but your oil base stains and varnish is not going to freeze. The viscosity will increase and some portions may seperate but bring them back to temp and they should be fine. Now this is ONLY for unopened containers only. Do you really think that the manufactures ship there products in heated trucks from the factory? Not likely. The water base products there is a concearn due to when those products freeze things seperate and they do not go back together ever. It's still a good practice to keep your products stored above 65 degrees though. Makes mixing them on the job a lot better.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> I've had latex freeze, and successfully thaw.
> 
> One time I froze a 5 solid, it turned into cottage cheese.
> 
> I still tried to revive it for about a week.


I remember reading somewhere (I would certainly help if I could remember where) that most latexes will survive a few freeze-thaw cycles.


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## Faron79 (Nov 29, 2007)

OP-
"Most"...but not all...Oils can handle some freezing. Repeated freezings, to the point of 1/2 solid, can start to have an effect.

Latexes:
Once it freezes, it's GONE. 
NOTHING will rescue it once the "cottage-cheese" stage is reached.
The molecular polymer-chains are irrevocably damaged. They may thaw out to a degree, but are still wrecked. Thawed doesn't mean "REPAIRED"!!!

Painter213-
Up where WE are, frozen Latex is an issue from November thru March.
Our ICI/Akzo-Nobel supplier has heated-trailer programs for Northern-tier states. Cleveland is one of the main shipping hubs.
3 yrs. ago, I had to decline delivery of 600 gallons of Latex.
(was -20 for a couple nights up here...guess when the paint was rolling towards us...)
Was s'posed to be on a heated trailer...but that didn't happen!
Couldn't even push a stir-stick into it!
Even on heated trailers, the paint still gets pretty cold!

Faron


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Faron79 said:


> OP-
> 
> Latexes:
> Once it freezes, it's GONE.
> ...


Faron

I agree with you about not being able to save it once the cottage-cheese stage is reached. OTOH, we've had latex freeze solid and thaw out with no appreciable change. I don't know if it's the speed of freezing, the speed of thawing, or what.


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## painter213 (Nov 2, 2008)

Yeah, several years ago we got a couple of orders from SW of there Zinc Clad Six. The water base. One shipment came from Cleavland and the other came out of Texas. This was Feb. and they were all the same batch numbers as well. All the product that came from Cleavland had to be sent back due to it would not mix together. The shipment that came from Texas we had no problems with.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Texas>Ohio


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## randrohe (Jan 6, 2009)

awesome real world info..
and now I have some guidelines.
And my heated room / workshop that I am building will be completed soon!!
Rand Rohe
Brothers' Painting


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## SalG (Dec 23, 2010)

randrohe said:


> awesome real world info..
> and now I have some guidelines.
> And my heated room / workshop that I am building will be completed soon!!
> Rand Rohe
> Brothers' Painting


Well there you go! I knew that the guys well north of SoCal (where I live) would have real-world answers for you. Dont get many days of -15 weather here ...


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