# flat rate price guide



## darrenM

hi all,
i have run my plumbing company on the T&M model since its inception in 2008. it has been going pretty good but i have been doing a lot of research on flat rate pricing and it just seems to me like a much easier more efficient way to run my business. i like the thought of having my guys show up, give a reasonable rate up front, and have the customer know what they're paying. nothing worse than a customer lurking over your shoulder with a close eye on their watch.

here's my question:
i've done a google search for "flat rate price guides" and found a ton of websites selling their versions of price books and software. 
most of the sites don't give pricing on their sites, but the ones that do are showing in the range of $1,500 - $2,000. i think paying this amount for a solid product would certainly save me a lot of time, which inevitably is money, but i am not comfortable forking out 2G's for a bunch of outdated garbage. i'd just like to know what, if any, your personal experiences are with these books/software. or if you know of any better products out there.

here's a list of some of the websites i've checked out:
www.callahan-roach.com
www.upfrontprice.com
www.qspnow.com aka (profitstrategies.net)
www.aptora.com aka flatrate plus
www.collierflatrate.com
www.acorate.com
www.trulysimplesolutions.com aka flatrate pro

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES:thumbup:


ps:
before any blast happy members lay into me, ive done a search through the archives and found a lot of threads on this, a lot of very old threads. some updated info would be much appreciated.


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## CENTERLINE MV

Two questions: 

1. Isn't that illegal? Maybe I'm missing something here.

2. Why not charge what you need to in order to cover labor, materials, business expenses, overhead and profit?


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## wyoming 1

why would it be illegal to charge a flat rate?


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## darrenM

CENTERLINE MV said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Isn't that illegal? Maybe I'm missing something here.
> 
> 2. Why not charge what you need to in order to cover labor, materials, business expenses, overhead and profit?



thanks for your response CENTERLINE, although i'm not sure how helpful it was.

1) i' not sure i follow, isn't what illegal?

2) thanks tips:thumbup:
i will be using the guide more as a reference. a flat rate price guide that has been built around years of research and compiled data would save me a lot of time. these books have thousands of tasks in them that a plumbing service tech would come across on a daily basis, how long they believe these tasks, on average, would take to complete, and the materials required. compiling this data would be very time consuming. again i will be using the books as a reference and altering pricing to suit my price demographic.


i appreciate CENTERLINE'S interest in my thread but are there any PLUMBERS on here that have experience with any of the above pricing guides.


have a great day!
darren


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## BamBamm5144

darrenM said:


> 2) thanks tips:thumbup:
> i will be using the guide more as a reference. a flat rate price guide that has been built around years of research and compiled data would save me a lot of time. these books have thousands of tasks in them that a plumbing service tech would come across on a daily basis, how long they believe these tasks, on average, would take to complete, and the materials required. compiling this data would be very time consuming. again i will be using the books as a reference and altering pricing to suit my price demographic.


Exactly. It does take time to learn these costs.

What he said made perfect sense. It does not matter what some book tells you, everyone has different costs.

I lost a job yesterday to a guy who was able to do it for my costs. How would I benefit if I used his pricing strategy?

If you've been in business nearly 5 years now, how do you not know what materials or how log certain tasks take?


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## darrenM

BamBamm5144 said:


> Exactly. It does take time to learn these costs.
> 
> What he said made perfect sense. It does not matter what some book tells you, everyone has different costs.
> 
> I lost a job yesterday to a guy who was able to do it for my costs. How would I benefit if I used his pricing strategy?
> 
> If you've been in business nearly 5 years now, how do you not know what materials or how log certain tasks take?



hey bambambam,
i see that you are a roofer, much respect my friend i could not do what you do.
sorry to hear you lost the job.
if you lost the job to someone charging the same amount as you i would start thinking of why this is. i get jobs that i quote higher than my competitors because of how i present myself.

seeing as how there are thousands of tasks involved in these pricing books do you not feel one would benefit from seeing how others lay theirs out? i would imagine that pricing a roofing job would be quite complex, but i am talking about a price guide that is filled with thousands of tasks. instead of questioning me and why i am looking to evolve my PLUMBING business, i would evolve your own company. do a little digging and you may even find software that would help you quote even faster, now wouldn't that be something you're interested in??? take a look at 1-800-got-junk their website does the estimating for the customer before they even speak with a rep, i would say they are doing pretty well wouldn't you? 

i will repeat myself.
i plan to use this guide as a reference point. 
i will be altering pricing to suit my demographic. do me a favour and take a look at the free pages offered by www.upfrontprice.com and see how it is laid out. seeing how others have painstakingly built there books will help me with mine.

thank you for your response bambam,
all the best with your next bid.


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## BamBamm5144

darrenM said:


> hey bambambam,
> i see that you are a roofer, much respect my friend i could not do what you do.
> sorry to hear you lost the job.
> if you lost the job to someone charging the same amount as you i would start thinking of why this is. i get jobs that i quote higher than my competitors because of how i present myself.
> 
> seeing as how there are thousands of tasks involved in these pricing books do you not feel one would benefit from seeing how others lay theirs out? i would imagine that pricing a roofing job would be quite complex, but i am talking about a price guide that is filled with thousands of tasks. instead of questioning me and why i am looking to evolve my PLUMBING business, i would evolve your own company. do a little digging and you may even find software that would help you quote even faster, now wouldn't that be something you're interested in??? take a look at 1-800-got-junk their website does the estimating for the customer before they even speak with a rep, i would say they are doing pretty well wouldn't you?
> 
> i will repeat myself.
> i plan to use this guide as a reference point.
> i will be altering pricing to suit my demographic. do me a favour and take a look at the free pages offered by www.upfrontprice.com and see how it is laid out. seeing how others have painstakingly built there books will help me with mine.
> 
> thank you for your response bambam,
> all the best with your next bid.


:blink:

I am able to measure, quote and present a roofing proposal within 10 minutes of arrival. Most guys email quotes - I don't do that.

So, do you think I should have my website estimate what someones roofing cost would be? What good would that do? Then all they would buy on is price. I rather have them meet with me and discuss their project. As I have been finding out, I only lose jobs to those who don't know how to price properly.

Do you know why I lost that job I mentioned? Simply put because the homeowner doesn't care much about his roof. He is having a terrible product installed at a low price. Although I spent an hour with him detailing how complex a proper roof installation can be, a roof is still a commodity item to him.

Good luck. Maybe Oconomowoc will come around and he can tell you basically everything you don't want to hear.


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## CompleteW&D

I guess I don't understand. But then again, I'm not a plumber. You've been doing this for a while, you should already know what your materials cost you. You should already have a good handle on yearly business expenses, rent, truck or vehicle repairs and maintenance, taxes, insurance, depreciation, etc.... I would also guess you have a fairly good idea how long it takes you to do various plumbing tasks and the hourly rate you need to make to pay yourself, your materials costs and all of your overhead, with whatever you want left over for profit.

Now assuming you already know all these costs, it won't take you but a few hours to come up with flat rate pricing for almost any scenario.

As an example.... Service call up to one hour (including the drive time to get there) $90.00 per hour plus any replacement fixtures or parts. After that, the rate drops to $75.00 per hour billible in 1/4 hour increments.

So, it takes you 40 minutes to drive to a service call, 10 minutes to look at a leaky faucet, 20 minutes to replace the cold water cartridge and you're done. Sell price of cartridge.... $21.50 + $90.00 (1st hour) + 18.75 (next 1/4 hour) = $130.25 and voile you have your flat rate pricing (all hypothetical numbers BTW).

The only variable will be your costs for different materials. You will have to spend some time building a data base for those, but basically, as I understand it.... the flat rate part is for your labor and trip time.

The advantage to flat rate pricing is you can pretty much tell a customer what it's going to cost them (minus any parts or fixtures) before you show up. They can agree to your "rates" or not.


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## summithomeinc

CompleteW&D said:


> I guess I don't understand. But then again, I'm not a plumber. You've been doing this for a while, you should already know what your materials cost you. You should already have a good handle on yearly business expenses, rent, truck or vehicle repairs and maintenance, taxes, insurance, depreciation, etc.... I would also guess you have a fairly good idea how long it takes you to do various plumbing tasks and the hourly rate you need to make to pay yourself, your materials costs and all of your overhead, with whatever you want left over for profit.
> 
> Now assuming you already know all these costs, it won't take you but a few hours to come up with flat rate pricing for almost any scenario.
> 
> As an example.... Service call up to one hour (including the drive time to get there) $90.00 per hour plus any replacement fixtures or parts. After that, the rate drops to $75.00 per hour billible in 1/4 hour increments.
> 
> So, it takes you 40 minutes to drive to a service call, 10 minutes to look at a leaky faucet, 20 minutes to replace the cold water cartridge and you're done. Sell price of cartridge.... $21.50 + $90.00 (1st hour) + 18.75 (next 1/4 hour) = $130.25 and voile you have your flat rate pricing (all hypothetical numbers BTW).
> 
> The only variable will be your costs for different materials. You will have to spend some time building a data base for those, but basically, as I understand it.... the flat rate part is for your labor and trip time.
> 
> The advantage to flat rate pricing is you can pretty much tell a customer what it's going to cost them (minus any parts or fixtures) before you show up. They can agree to your "rates" or not.


I agree. I also understand what the OP is getting at. It sure would be nice to have a book or computer program that all I had to do is plug in my labor rates and be done with it. It would also help with jobs that only come up very rarely. I would be able to plug in my rate and have an Idea of what I "should" charge for that task, even if i have never done it before. I hate to charge my customers to learn on the job.


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## Gary H

If it was as easy as reading a book for prices then everybody would be a sucessful contractor. The most sucessful people in construction for example had many failures before they found the key to make it work for them. My numbers that work for me would not work for my buddy that does the same trade. 

And what works today , will not work next year. You have to always look at your numbers and see if they are producing or falling behind. Only you can do that.


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## CENTERLINE MV

Darren--- I'm sure I'm misunderstanding. The legality of contractors getting together to agree on a set price is what I'm questioning. For example, if there was a book that said plumbers are charging $100/hr and every plumber that read it charged $100/hr because that's what the book said; I'm pretty sure there are laws against that. It's also not ethical or a smart business decision if my company needs to make $110 per hour to be successful.

Let me put it this way. The plumbers out here all decided to put bids in at outrageous prices for modular homes because they're pissy about tying them together. I had quotes in the $15k range for a 2400 sq ft house and a realistic price for under $5k who was a former inspector and did great work. He got the job and nailed it out of the park. 

The whole flat price thing really doesn't make any sense to me, personally.


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## darrenM

thank you all for your time in writing your responses.
i'm really only looking for feedback from other plumbing companies who have experience with the software sold on the websites listed above.


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## r4r&r

Here we go.


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## summithomeinc

Yeah... Here we go again with established members running off new posters for asking a legit question. Real good for growing CT membership. The OP asked a question about services offered to contractors. Not what to price. Why all the negativity?


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## CENTERLINE MV

Not at all trying to be negative. I just don't understand the concept seeing as though every job is different. Maybe I'm looking at it from large project perspective rather than service call. Even still, it just doesn't make sense to me.


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## RobertCDF

I think sometimes people don't realize that service business is different than remodel work. How much time does it take to change a toilet? I'm sure a well experienced plumber can do 100 toilets and be within 5 mins each time, it's fairly predictable. Not quite the same as doing remodel work when you don't know what's behind the wall. 

It's done EXTENSIVELY in the auto repair business, typically it works more along the lines of "this job should take 3 hours" you apply your hourly rate.


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## Calidecks

CENTERLINE MV said:


> Darren--- I'm sure I'm misunderstanding. The legality of contractors getting together to agree on a set price is what I'm questioning. For example, if there was a book that said plumbers are charging $100/hr and every plumber that read it charged $100/hr because that's what the book said; I'm pretty sure there are laws against that. It's also not ethical or a smart business decision if my company needs to make $110 per hour to be successful.
> 
> Let me put it this way. The plumbers out here all decided to put bids in at outrageous prices for modular homes because they're pissy about tying them together. I had quotes in the $15k range for a 2400 sq ft house and a realistic price for under $5k who was a former inspector and did great work. He got the job and nailed it out of the park.
> 
> The whole flat price thing really doesn't make any sense to me, personally.


Auto mechanics all have books that give a general price for a job and how long it should take. When the manager prices something he gets out the book. That's how they pay their mechanics by the job.


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## darrenM

CENTERLINE MV said:


> Not at all trying to be negative. I just don't understand the concept seeing as though every job is different. Maybe I'm looking at it from large project perspective rather than service call. Even still, it just doesn't make sense to me.




maybe this video will give you a better understanding.....


http://www.qspnow.com/FlatRateVideo/tabid/399/Default.aspx


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## summithomeinc

darrenM said:


> maybe this video will give you a better understanding.....
> 
> 
> http://www.qspnow.com/FlatRateVideo/tabid/399/Default.aspx


Makes sense to me...except I do many trades...I would sure like a way to get started with flat rates....


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## CENTERLINE MV

Aaaaaahhh I see. That video cleared it up (I think). I was completely misunderstanding the definition of "flat rate"-- I was assuming it was an hourly "rate" that everyone agreed upon?

From the video, it means you're giving a quote for the job, and not an hourly rate. I prefer this method over hourly, even for remodels.:thumbsup:


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## CompleteW&D

summithomeinc said:


> Yeah... Here we go again with established members running off new posters for asking a legit question. Real good for growing CT membership. The OP asked a question about services offered to contractors. Not what to price. Why all the negativity?


Not trying to be negative at all. Just trying to point out that figuring flat rate pricing should be fairly easy if the OP is on top of his materials costs, the man hours he needs to do a typical task, his business expenses and the profit he wants/needs to make.

Flat rate pricing isn't all that much different than the T&M he's been using other than he can (under normal circumstances) give an entire job price (or really close to it) and get an agreement from the prospect - before he starts. But, in order to do so, he's got to be confident in pricing his time correctly up front.

Again, not trying to be negative, just pointing out that with a little leg work, he could figure out what works best for him and his business - rather than spending serious coin on what might, or might not work for him.

Sorry if I offended anyone.


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## Gary H

I think if a person could figure there own flat rate, they could be very sucessful in thier business. We have estimating books that tells us how long to do something such as install a door. I would use that if I had a employee. But i dont, but I know how long it takes to set one in a older house. If I get a cold call on a price , I ask several questions about the age of the house and what is it they want. Then tell them over the phone. Its always more for the over the phone price because of unknown condistions that I may come across. But w

But with years of experice in my area and extreme knowledge of how our houses were built, I do pretty good. Very rare that I get a surprise, that I have not encountered before. Now if I ws in CA. and had to change a door, it would be a new learning experice for me, because I am unfaminer with thier type of construction, such as slab on grade.


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## darrenM

CompleteW&D said:


> Not trying to be negative at all. Just trying to point out that figuring flat rate pricing should be fairly easy if the OP is on top of his materials costs, the man hours he needs to do a typical task, his business expenses and the profit he wants/needs to make.
> 
> Flat rate pricing isn't all that much different than the T&M he's been using other than he can (under normal circumstances) give an entire job price (or really close to it) and get an agreement from the prospect - before he starts. But, in order to do so, he's got to be confident in pricing his time correctly up front.
> 
> Again, not trying to be negative, just pointing out that with a little leg work, he could figure out what works best for him and his business - rather than spending serious coin on what might, or might not work for him.
> 
> Sorry if I offended anyone.



you're not offending anyone. but you're not really helping either.

-i personally have no problem quoting a job.
-i am not a one man show, i have service techs out in the field.
-i am putting together a flat rate guide to standardize our pricing. meaning that when customer "A" asks our service tech Dick how much it will cost them to have service "X" provided they will be given the same price that customer "B" is given by our tech Jane for the same service "X". 
-i started writing out our flat rate guide a couple of weeks ago and quickly realized how time consuming it was going to be.
-there are literally thousands of plumbing service tasks to price out. i am researching FLAT RATE PRICING GUIDES and/or SOFTWARE to use as a reference and save me time.


my thread was posted in the plumbing forum and specifically asks for others experiences with FLATE RATE PRICING books or software. i even went as far as to attach a bunch of links to show exactly what i was talking about. most of the reply's are from guys who have no knowledge of how involved what i am talking about actually is and assuming that i should be able to come up with an entire pricing guide no problem. one guy even went as far as to say, and i quote:
" it won't take you but a few hours to come up with flat rate pricing for almost any scenario."
oh wait, that was also from you CompleteW&D.


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## r4r&r

Well it's a public forum and you get the replies from those that reply. You don't have to be a plumber to understand flat rate pricing and all that comes with getting it in place. 

A little advice, on this forum you sometimes have to read between the lines. What most are trying to get across is that if you just use a guide, be it a book or software, you will screw yourself somewhere along the way. You must adjust your rates constantly as material, labor and all the other O&P items change. 

Just do your best to filter responses and take the unsolicited comments as well, as a real gem gets thrown out often even if it wasn't part of the OP.


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## summithomeinc

darrenM said:


> you're not offending anyone. but you're not really helping either.
> 
> -i personally have no problem quoting a job.
> -i am not a one man show, i have service techs out in the field.
> -i am putting together a flat rate guide to standardize our pricing. meaning that when customer "A" asks our service tech Dick how much it will cost them to have service "X" provided they will be given the same price that customer "B" is given by our tech Jane for the same service "X".
> -i started writing out our flat rate guide a couple of weeks ago and quickly realized how time consuming it was going to be.
> -there are literally thousands of plumbing service tasks to price out. i am researching FLAT RATE PRICING GUIDES and/or SOFTWARE to use as a reference and save me time.
> 
> 
> my thread was posted in the plumbing forum and specifically asks for others experiences with FLATE RATE PRICING books or software. i even went as far as to attach a bunch of links to show exactly what i was talking about. most of the reply's are from guys who have no knowledge of how involved what i am talking about actually is and assuming that i should be able to come up with an entire pricing guide no problem. one guy even went as far as to say, and i quote:
> " it won't take you but a few hours to come up with flat rate pricing for almost any scenario."
> oh wait, that was also from you CompleteW&D.


I understand you posted in a specific forum. However. don't automaticly rule out others opinions. There are many service related fields that could relat to your question. There are also many here who have changed proffesions during their lifetime. For example my trade now is Home repairs. I was a painter for 15 years before this company. So occassionally I post in the painting forum. Stay around. There is a great wealth of information here.


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## CompleteW&D

Thank you Darren. 

Just so you know, I spent several years working for an HVAC contractor here in Indy. I was exposed to and dealt with flat rate pricing on a daily basis. Just because I am no longer in a service trade business that uses flat rate pricing, doesn't mean I don't know what it is, or how it works. I just felt you had options available to you other than spending mega bucks on something that "might" work for you. 

I apologize if I stepped on the intent of your thread and didn't just pick A or B. But, like Summit so correctly mentions, this is a public forum open to all. Unless I am disparaging toward you in some way, or participate in a way that violates the forum rules.... I'm alowed to post my opinion in any forum on this board. 

Even the plumbing forum.

:surrender:


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## Oconomowoc

I have extensive experience on this subject. The guy who originally pushed marketing this model was Frank Blau who also happened to be an editor for "Plumbing & Mechanical" magazine. I have met him, talked to him at length, and heard his entire reasons for doing this. 

I have a complete flat rate system book. I do NOT use it though.

In my career I have worked for many companies and have personally used both methods. I would avoid flat rate pricing. Yes, the money is much better but your referrals will shrink.

Mike


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## kcremodeling

Hey Darren, I think you may benefit from checking out another forum just for plumbers...plumbingzone.com :thumbup:


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## rduker

Check out Trade-Serve. Comes with Flat Rate. Can add to it. Also works with Time and Material.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC

Sleazy/Crooked (imo) take-off on flat rate pricing......

Several years ago, my neighbor who is a snowbird to Fla in winter, had a furnace problem. He called out a flat rate advertized furnace company. and asked me to let them in and in effect, keep an eye on the job.

I never saw their advertizing or was a part of their conversation, but apparently they said they had flat rates for what the problem was that they discovered.

Can't remember the make of furnace but it was a WH and FA furnace incorporated together, which was subsequently discontinued after all it's problems.

Anyway, the guy opened it up (took plumbing disconnects and some disassembly, and basically repaired a couple of sensors (or relays... don't really remember) and shook out a filter or something.... and handed me a bill for about $700. He was there maybe an hour.

Well, his little company book, had a fixed price for each item, that basically incorporated all the disassembly.... in effect double counting much of the work......

I argued.... and he took off the 185 dollar charge for shaking out the filter.... but that's the best I could do as Doc had apparently agred to it.

I know that was not the OP's issue, but just a sleazy use of fixed pricing when you do not have a clearly defined job.


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## TxElectrician

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Sleazy/Crooked (imo) take-off on flat rate pricing......
> 
> Several years ago, my neighbor who is a snowbird to Fla in winter, had a furnace problem. He called out a flat rate advertized furnace company. and asked me to let them in and in effect, keep an eye on the job.
> 
> I never saw their advertizing or was a part of their conversation, but apparently they said they had flat rates for what the problem was that they discovered.
> 
> Can't remember the make of furnace but it was a WH and FA furnace incorporated together, which was subsequently discontinued after all it's problems.
> 
> Anyway, the guy opened it up (took plumbing disconnects and some disassembly, and basically repaired a couple of sensors (or relays... don't really remember) and shook out a filter or something.... and handed me a bill for about $700. He was there maybe an hour.
> 
> Well, his little company book, had a fixed price for each item, that basically incorporated all the disassembly.... in effect double counting much of the work......
> 
> I argued.... and he took off the 185 dollar charge for shaking out the filter.... but that's the best I could do as Doc had apparently agred to it.
> 
> I know that was not the OP's issue, but just a sleazy use of fixed pricing when you do not have a clearly defined job.



I don't do flat rate pricing- but I have looked at it and it has many advantages for SERVICE WORK. Had the contractor you mentioned really been flat rate you would have known the price before any work was performed and could decide whether you wanted to proceed or not.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC

TxElectrician said:


> I don't do flat rate pricing- but I have looked at it and it has many advantages for SERVICE WORK. Had the contractor you mentioned really been flat rate you would have known the price before any work was performed and could decide whether you wanted to proceed or not.


yes:thumbsup:


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## Golden view

I'm of the opinion (sorry, I know that's redundant, this is a forum) that flat rate pricing has its place: For competitors. When I turn down a job because it will obviously take more time than average, my competitor can flat rate price it and lose out. 

When a job is obviously easier than usual, I seem like I'm priced very well.


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## huggytree

ive considered doing flat rate pricing also.

right now I have flat rate pricing on basic things like water heaters, disposals, pull/reset toilet....its easy to quote over the phone

my problem with flat rate is charging the customer $60 to come over and give them a bid and then the customer saying NO....my next job may be 2-3 hours from now...do I just sit and do nothing?

I get tons of small jobs where the customer is unable to describe the problem correctly over the phone....so I do those small 1-2 hour jobs at t&m....I haven't had any issues with customers over T&M, but I notice my profit is very small on these jobs...I have recently raised my markup %'s on fittings on these jobs to make some more...but id love to just use the FLAT rate book and always make great profit

im a small company(1 man)....been in business since 2006.....I can get 8 homeowner calls a day or I can go 30 days w/o 1 homeowner call...most of my work is large remodels, but I like the small homeowner jobs to use as filler....

can anyone tell me what you do with flat rate pricing when the customer says No thanks to the bid? go stand around home depot for 3 hours until your next scheduled job? what if they say no?....you could potentially sit around all day and have every customer say NO


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## huggytree

Golden view said:


> I'm of the opinion (sorry, I know that's redundant, this is a forum) that flat rate pricing has its place: For competitors. When I turn down a job because it will obviously take more time than average, my competitor can flat rate price it and lose out.
> 
> When a job is obviously easier than usual, I seem like I'm priced very well.


most of the flat rate pricing companies in my area are almost double my prices....so if things go wrong they are more than covered......

there's one that charges $5,000 to replace a bath tub and $2,000 to replace a water heater


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## KermieB

CompleteW&D said:


> I guess I don't understand. But then again, I'm not a plumber. You've been doing this for a while, you should already know what your materials cost you. You should already have a good handle on yearly business expenses, rent, truck or vehicle repairs and maintenance, taxes, insurance, depreciation, etc.... I would also guess you have a fairly good idea how long it takes you to do various plumbing tasks and the hourly rate you need to make to pay yourself, your materials costs and all of your overhead, with whatever you want left over for profit.
> 
> Now assuming you already know all these costs, it won't take you but a few hours to come up with flat rate pricing for almost any scenario.
> 
> As an example.... Service call up to one hour (including the drive time to get there) $90.00 per hour plus any replacement fixtures or parts. After that, the rate drops to $75.00 per hour billible in 1/4 hour increments.
> 
> So, it takes you 40 minutes to drive to a service call, 10 minutes to look at a leaky faucet, 20 minutes to replace the cold water cartridge and you're done. Sell price of cartridge.... $21.50 + $90.00 (1st hour) + 18.75 (next 1/4 hour) = $130.25 and voile you have your flat rate pricing (all hypothetical numbers BTW).
> 
> The only variable will be your costs for different materials. You will have to spend some time building a data base for those, but basically, as I understand it.... the flat rate part is for your labor and trip time.
> 
> The advantage to flat rate pricing is you can pretty much tell a customer what it's going to cost them (minus any parts or fixtures) before you show up. They can agree to your "rates" or not.


So you say that's it's MY fault that it takes you 40 minutes to get to my house? What if you're 40 minutes in the other direction and it takes you an hour and 20 minutes to get to my house? Should I be responsible for that? I don't agree with your assessment.

To the OP... if you're five years in and you feel like you're not making enough money, which what I am guessing is going on here, I'll ask you this: Are you getting a ton of repeat business? Are your clients telling thier neighbors and the neigbors are calling too? Or.. do you rely on heavy advertising?

This is always the age old question for the small business. Am I charging enough? Am I making enough money? The situation is differnt in EVERY individual case. It's like asking a car dealer... "Hey, how much does a car cost?" 

Take me for instance... I live in a town of about 8,000 people. I can point out all five plumbers in this town, and we have this guy in his 30's that pulls out a book and bills people based solely on what somebody else thinks he should charge. He is slowly running himself out of business because, though he's making enough to pay for those jet ski's and the great big dualy truck, people won't call him but once because he charges so damn much. I'm a kitchen and bath remodeler and I do all of my own plumbing unless I'm required to pull a permit by a licensed plumber. I got a quote from three different plumbers on my last job and I invited him ONLY becaue he was a friend of the homeowner I was working for.... He bid $2,200 labor for something that would take me roughly two days by myself. I got it done for $800. Who won? His book told him how much it was worth, but apparantly his book didn't know me that well. 

Same guy... got called to a privately owned convience store to look at a leaking hot water faucet in the kitchen sink. $200 later he had replaced a 25 cent washer, but the book told him it was a commercial account and he could charge more. The owner told me he'd never again call the guy. 

Find your market. Develope relationships with builders, your clients and other professionals and most of all....trust your instincts! If you're not making enough examine ALL aspects of your business and make small incremental adjustments.

I dont' nit-pick my clients. If I'm building her a $20,000 bathroom and she asks me about a ceiling fan in her bedroom, you damn right I'll be glad to hang that fan as a favor to you for no charge.

You do a good job and they'll tell 10 people... you do em wrong and they'll tell 100.


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## Patrick

KermieB said:


> So you say that's it's MY fault that it takes you 40 minutes to get to my house? What if you're 40 minutes in the other direction and it takes you an hour and 20 minutes to get to my house? Should I be responsible for that? I don't agree with your assessment.
> 
> To the OP... if you're five years in and you feel like you're not making enough money, which what I am guessing is going on here, I'll ask you this: Are you getting a ton of repeat business? Are your clients telling thier neighbors and the neigbors are calling too? Or.. do you rely on heavy advertising?
> 
> This is always the age old question for the small business. Am I charging enough? Am I making enough money? The situation is differnt in EVERY individual case. It's like asking a car dealer... "Hey, how much does a car cost?"
> 
> Take me for instance... I live in a town of about 8,000 people. I can point out all five plumbers in this town, and we have this guy in his 30's that pulls out a book and bills people based solely on what somebody else thinks he should charge. He is slowly running himself out of business because, though he's making enough to pay for those jet ski's and the great big dualy truck, people won't call him but once because he charges so damn much. I'm a kitchen and bath remodeler and I do all of my own plumbing unless I'm required to pull a permit by a licensed plumber. I got a quote from three different plumbers on my last job and I invited him ONLY becaue he was a friend of the homeowner I was working for.... He bid $2,200 labor for something that would take me roughly two days by myself. I got it done for $800. Who won? His book told him how much it was worth, but apparantly his book didn't know me that well.
> 
> Same guy... got called to a privately owned convience store to look at a leaking hot water faucet in the kitchen sink. $200 later he had replaced a 25 cent washer, but the book told him it was a commercial account and he could charge more. The owner told me he'd never again call the guy.
> 
> Find your market. Develope relationships with builders, your clients and other professionals and most of all....trust your instincts! If you're not making enough examine ALL aspects of your business and make small incremental adjustments.
> 
> I dont' nit-pick my clients. If I'm building her a $20,000 bathroom and she asks me about a ceiling fan in her bedroom, you damn right I'll be glad to hang that fan as a favor to you for no charge.
> 
> You do a good job and they'll tell 10 people... you do em wrong and they'll tell 100.


So what is a fair price to just so happen to be able to answer the phone, show up in a reasonable time frame, inspect the leaky faucet, and just so happen to have the part on your truck?

What if the woman with the ceiling fan is so happy you helped her out she asks you to hang a new door on the bedroom that she already bought since your there anyways? Or maybe you could install that closet organizer while your there too i mean your there doing that 20k remodel maybe you could rake the leaves and mow the lawn at lunch time too


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## Bearded Wonder

I'm not a plumber, but I only find flat rate pricing to be useful for roughly estimating jobs, or giving ballpark type prices over the phone. Every job can have many variables, and I have to look at each job to see what specific items come into play. As has been said, seems like hardcore sticking to your flat rate can easily cause you to overbid and lose out or underbid and take it in the shorts on jobs. 

To the op, disregard. I didn't look at the links, and I'm not a plumber. Interesting thread, though.


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## KillerToiletSpider

ClaytonR said:


> I'm not a plumber, but I only find flat rate pricing to be useful for roughly estimating jobs, or giving ballpark type prices over the phone. Every job can have many variables, and I have to look at each job to see what specific items come into play. As has been said, seems like hardcore sticking to your flat rate can easily cause you to overbid and lose out or underbid and take it in the shorts on jobs.
> 
> To the op, disregard. I didn't look at the links, and I'm not a plumber. Interesting thread, though.


If somebody asks me for a ballpark price I tell them Comiskey Park was around 80 million, their bill should be less than that.


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## KermieB

Patrick said:


> So what is a fair price to just so happen to be able to answer the phone, show up in a reasonable time frame, inspect the leaky faucet, and just so happen to have the part on your truck?
> 
> What if the woman with the ceiling fan is so happy you helped her out she asks you to hang a new door on the bedroom that she already bought since your there anyways? Or maybe you could install that closet organizer while your there too i mean your there doing that 20k remodel maybe you could rake the leaves and mow the lawn at lunch time too


When she hits the point where of "taking advantage" I tell her how much it will cost. It's really easy to do. Almost 100% of my business is by word of mouth and that closet organizer would have taken me about, what... an hour maybe. The referral is worth about $5,000. 

I'll state again... everybody's situation is different. I can only relay life in a small town because that's my situation. I got two calls TODAY.. both referrals from a client named Stephanie who I rebuilt two bathrooms for when she bought a new house. One was a simple repair and the other is a bathroom remodel that I'll almost surely get.

Funny thing.... I installed four ceiling fans for Stephanie.


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