# Disrespectful and rude



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Ancient,

Seriously, you need to step back for a moment. It's much bigger than just one guy's post. If we start allowing anybody to ask questions in here, the website is no longer Contractor Talk, it's ask contractors a question. We already have that, it's the DIY sister site. And there are a lot of contractors that DONATE their time to home owners there.

So it's not that one guy's question got him sent to his room, it's the fact that he's not a contractor, *period*. 

BTW, I was only 6 years old in 1973 :whistling. Photoshop is a wonderful thing!


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

I agree with the way the moderators run the site.

There is a lot of good advice on this forum. You can get to it, without having to read through a bunch of internet garbage.

The fact that most of the posters here, are true tradesman and/or contractors, is what makes this site gold IMO. Most of the posts here, run right to the core of where my mind goes, when I think of business issues.

If they allowed DIYers and Homeowners to post things here, the site would get flooded and watered down. Sigh, after that, the salesmen will be knocking the doors down.

I have noticed, they do let some people post who are not directly involved in the trades. These people seem to give balance to those thread, and I think the moderator's judgement here, has been spot on.

There are many site's that cater to "how-to" queries, It's very easy to find them. I don't believe there is anything wrong, with directing people to those sites.

I'm new to the site, and as far as internet resources go... I think CT is the best I've found yet for my trade.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

This guy was obviously not a builder or a contractor asking such a question, he was reffered to the DIY site.

I am on another site that I had to send copies of my contractors licenses to get Professional status, that allows me to go to areas of the forum that the public does not have access to.

This is contractors talk, not DIY talk.

Many posters come on with questions that clearly show they are either HO's saying they are contractors or guys doing side jobs that have no idea how to price a job so they want to pick the pro's brains here.

I thought this site was for contractors to talk to other contractors and to allow HO's to have access to ask questions as well, but no DIY.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Ancient Rocker said:


> How does secrecy make this valid? We need to talk "privately" so we don't embarrass the "moderators"? The man asked a legitimate question that 99% of this forum knows nothing about. and he is chastised by you and sent to his room and grounded. I have never read any of his other posts and that is irrelevant to this one. I thought the purpose for threads was to exchange ideas and information to help every one. And who in the world is going to know one iota about his question on DIY? You are entirely off base and trying to send a "private message" serves no purpose to any one for any reason. Do you think if we had this exchange in "private" your lame excuses would be more convincing? This poster must be a pariah or a criminal to be treated like an outcast even if his thread is better than 90% of the others posted by "professionals".


:wallbash:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

genecarp said:


> True, i think if you continue to read rule #6 the spirit of its intent is clearly defined, GMOD


No, I think I understand based on how they close threads. But they don't do anything as stated in rule #6.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

KennMacMoragh said:


> No, I think I understand based on how they close threads. But they don't do anything as stated in rule #6.


#6.*How-To Questions*: Contractor Talk is a site for professional contractors to come and share business and trade knowledge. From time to time everyone runs into new situations that they’ve never seen before or that they need help with. *While it’s fine for members to ask for help it’s not OK for members to ask how-to questions when they are clearly in over their head or don’t have the experience needed to complete the task.* _How-To threads will be closed on a case by case basis.
_

Can't be much clearer to me.....


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

JumboJack said:


> #6.*How-To Questions*: Contractor Talk is a site for professional contractors to come and share business and trade knowledge. From time to time everyone runs into new situations that they’ve never seen before or that they need help with. *While it’s fine for members to ask for help it’s not OK for members to ask how-to questions when they are clearly in over their head or don’t have the experience needed to complete the task.* _How-To threads will be closed on a case by case basis.
> _
> 
> Can't be much clearer to me.....


I ask "How-to" all the time. So do other people.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I ask "How-to" all the time. So do other people.


*While it’s fine for members to ask for help it’s not OK for members to ask how-to questions when they are clearly in over their head or don’t have the experience needed to complete the task.*

Those are the threads that get closed.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Not really, we had a guy asking how to fix an old metal chimney for a customer. He was clearly in over his head and didn't have the experience needed to fix it, as with most carpenters, HVAC guys work with metal, not carpenters. I told him to hire an HVAC guy to look at it, he took my advice.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I ask "How-to" all the time. So do other people.


But you hang around enough for
folks to get to know you and get
"a feel" for where you're coming from.
Someone who never hangs out and asks
4 or 5 questions over a year, all obviously 
about the same house, gets a different response.
Capice?


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

neolitic said:


> But you hang around enough for
> folks to get to know you and get
> "a feel" for where you're coming from.
> Someone who never hangs out and asks
> ...


Yeah, that's what I figured. That's just not how they worded it in their rules, maybe that's why people are getting confused.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Yeah, that's what I figured. That's just not how they worded it in their rules, maybe that's why people are getting confused.


#6.How-To Questions: Contractor Talk is a site for professional contractors to come and share business and trade knowledge. From time to time everyone runs into new situations that they’ve never seen before or that they need help with. *While it’s fine for members to ask for help* *it’s not OK for members to ask how-to questions when they are clearly in over their head or don’t have the experience needed to complete the task.* How-To threads will be closed on a case by case basis.
:blink:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Jack you need a better smiley, but read my example.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

You guys are missing the part of the site rules that apply here:

3. TERMS OF MEMBERSHIP & USAGE RESTRICTIONS
Site Membership
a) Membership is generally available to any person at least 13 years ...blah blah blah



yada yada yada



 i) The owners, administrators, and moderators of Contractor Talk reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason, and the right to suspend or delete any user account for any reason, with or without cause.
 j) Membership in Contractor Talk is a privilege, not a right. We reserve the right to deny service to any person, at any time, for any reason, with or without cause.


_Personally, I like the "with or without cause" part. :jester:_


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Yeah I know, if it's your server you can allow or disallow anyone you want. A server works like a telephone, you can hang up the phone to anyone you want too.


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## mikey48 (Sep 22, 2007)

I think it is much better to have the moderators kindly ask these people to go to the DYI site then to leave them on here so we can beat the crap out of them. Not as much fun though. :laughing:


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## Ancient Rocker (Jul 25, 2009)

*I totally understand*



genecarp said:


> Not understanding why you dont get it, let me try another approach, this forum is called "Contractor Talk" NOT
> 
> "I am a homeowner trying to save money building my own home talk"
> 
> ...


Since you have the ball, we can't play without it. You can pout and take the ball home. I understand 100%. If you have a problem outside your realm, wouldn't you ask a professional instead of a novice? I guarantee you not one DIY forum knows crap about this topic so who would he ask but a professional? Because so many people are defending your stance I assume they know nothing about the topic, so send him to DIY and get even less help. I KNOW every one on this site is not a contractor, so your posit is insulting and arrogant. Because you do not have the knowledge about the post does not mean it's insignificant. Who are you "protecting" if no one replies to his post? It's just like television. If you don't like it, turn the damn station. Also, for the idiot who said I'm on thin ice, your childish threat is truly boorish. I understand your stance 100% and you are 100% wrong.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Ancient Rocker said:


> Since you have the ball, we can't play without it. You can pout and take the ball home. I understand 100%. If you have a problem outside your realm, wouldn't you ask a professional instead of a novice? I guarantee you not one DIY forum knows crap about this topic so who would he ask but a professional? Because so many people are defending your stance I assume they know nothing about the topic, so send him to DIY and get even less help. I KNOW every one on this site is not a contractor, so your posit is insulting and arrogant. Because you do not have the knowledge about the post does not mean it's insignificant. Who are you "protecting" if no one replies to his post? *It's just like television. If you don't like it, turn the damn station.* Also, for the idiot who said I'm on thin ice, your childish threat is truly boorish. I understand your stance 100% and you are 100% wrong.


There you go!
You can do that too.
If you want to answer the HOs and DIYs
join the DIY site,http://www.diychatroom.com/
and answer away. :thumbsup:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

lol, I always thought it was kind of weird how they put the rules together, but it's not that big of a deal, it's not like your life is in danger. Take a chill pill man, have a drink.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

bwalley said:


> This guy was obviously not a builder or a contractor asking such a question, he was reffered to the DIY site.
> 
> I am on another site that I had to send copies of my contractors licenses to get Professional status, that allows me to go to areas of the forum that the public does not have access to.
> 
> ...


 
That discriminates against contractors from NY and other states that take the enlightened approach that no one can enforce the licensing laws so why bother>G<
Seriously, how would I prove to their satisfaction?


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

Ancient Rocker said:


> It's just like television. If you don't like it, turn the damn station. Also, for the idiot who said I'm on thin ice, your childish threat is truly boorish. I understand your stance 100% and you are 100% wrong.


Rocker, I think the above, is probably the critical issue here.

Although I admit, that some people would prefer a take all comers approach. I for one, prefer leaving the Homeowners, DIYers out. Mainly because it would turn into something resembling TV. Flipping the channel will not work here, these people will spam all across the forum, looking to get their questions answered.

Ever notice, when your flipping thru the tv stations, almost every station is the same... 200 stations, nothing really on? When I flip through the stations, I see; movies with guns, commercials, young girls, commercials, young girls with guns, commercials, news about young girls and guns, then more commercials. (substitute sex and violence, if you want). Personally I like sex and violence, but occasionally I'd like to see something else.

I'm afraid, if they let the homeowners and "how to" questions come into play here., It would take over much of the site. We could spend our evenings, giving free advice to homeowners. While they can tell us, how much smarter and better their way is anyhow. Others will be asking "how much" questions, which won't get answered, because no true contractor is going to waste his time with that.

I'm not trying to put DIYers and Homeowneres down. But, after spending a day dealing with these people, not to mention friends and family, who I *have to play this game with*, the last thing I want to do is give away more free advice. Ecspecially, when I come on here, looking to get support from other contractors (peers).


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## Brocktologist (Sep 16, 2008)

I also understand the Owner's Manual however this is one of those times I read the thread and then saw it was locked and thought, WTF?!!
I agree with Rocker and say the thread should have remained *open *so other drywallers/contractors could have learned something. :thumbsup: 
Oh well...


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

Framer53 said:


> That discriminates against contractors from NY and other states that take the enlightened approach that no one can enforce the licensing laws so why bother>G<
> Seriously, how would I prove to their satisfaction?


So instead of working to improve things they just allow any hack to call themselves a contractor??

That sure sounds enlightened to me.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

bwalley said:


> So instead of working to improve things they just allow any hack to call themselves a contractor??
> 
> That sure sounds enlightened to me.


 
I have enjoyed your posts in the past.

This is where you and I differ. 
First, do you know why the liscencing law was enacted in the first place?

Enlightened is because in reading on here and many other web sites, contractors are always complaining about hacks. Having these laws does absolutely nothing to correct that. All it means is that you limit competition. 
Competition should ultimately decide who is a hack and not whether you can pass a test and be finacially solvent.

It sure hasn't stopped the current problem with homebuilding in florida.:whistling


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

Framer53 said:


> I have enjoyed your posts in the past.
> 
> This is where you and I differ.
> First, do you know why the liscencing law was enacted in the first place?
> ...


In Florida one reason licensing laws were started because Florida gets an influx of winter residents and people were coming down here doing shoddy work and then going back up north after the winter, they were also implementing builiding codes as well as setting statewide as well as county standards, one way to make sure this is done is to make sure contractors had the knowledge and experience to do the work.

Inspections are a good idea, but they can't catch everything.

What specific home building issues are there in florida that would be made better if there were no licensing laws?

The general public has no idea what a hack is and many of them only care about price, good clients like the ones I work for want quality work and are willing to pay for it.


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## Dairylander (Oct 27, 2009)

Something similar happened in this thread:

Please Help

The moderator decided that the OP's posts contained too many questions, so he showed him the door.
This is strange to me. Some people come to a forum to ask questions, others to share wisdom, and a third group does both. 
To eliminate any of these groups would make the forum slow and boring.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Some people just don't get it.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

I can't believe this thread is 3 pages long already. 

If you don't like the reason why the thread was closed, or you were thought to be a H/O or DIYer and referred elsewhere, and you don't like it, THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE OR START YOUR OWN FORUM!


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Ancient Rocker, here you go.....
http://www.contractortalk.com/f49/hanging-drywall-over-foam-67869/#post804063

We are all looking forward to all of
the wisdom you were unable to share
on the subject earlier.


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## Dairylander (Oct 27, 2009)

CookeCarpentry said:


> If you don't like the reason why the thread was closed, or you were thought to be a H/O or DIYer and referred elsewhere, and you don't like it, THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE OR START YOUR OWN FORUM!


Why are you afraid of a conversation on format and policy?


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Dairylander said:


> Why are you afraid of a conversation on format and policy?


I am not afraid of it, nor do I think anyone else on here is.

What is an annoyance is because it has nothing to do with the intentions of the forum - creating a method for contractors to discuss issues facing the industry.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Dairylander said:


> Why are you afraid of a conversation on format and policy?


There ain't nothing to discuss


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Dairylander said:


> Why are you afraid of a conversation on format and policy?


This same issue comes up once
or twice a year when a new guy 
comes along and decides the site needs
all of these changes before he's 
even been here long enough to understand
how it works here.
Years ago when the site was young
there were plenty of DIYs and HOs here.
Nathan decided to change that, and here we are.
I'll bet you wouldn't even be here now
if he hadn't changed the policy then. :thumbsup:


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

When I first started using this site, I searched the forums by looking through the categories. I found tons of interesting threads, a lot of it was very useful, the rest humor worthy. Until I discovered, the "new post" feature. I saw few idiotic posts....

"new posts" are where the action is... at least if you want to pick a fight. :w00t:

Its obvious to me, what gets a lot of people pissed off, Is breaking a multiple of rules on your first dozen or two posts. If someone here, with 4 zillion and 1 posts asks "What's the going rate for digging a hole" its ok. Reason... they KNOW he's not a homeowner looking to grind down some poor soul who's breaking his back, digging a hole. 

Personally, I haven't seen anyone with a couple thousand posts asking idiotic questions. Im sure it happens, and when it does, I think everyone should bend over and kiss there own keester, to accomomdate the poster.
Its pretty obvious its a genuine question, and who doesn't go brain dead every once in awhile?

I read a pile of threads, for months, before I felt comfortable to post at all. If someone comes in brand new, and starts asking questons, I think the moderators should have the freedom to take it down... Its the integrity of the site, that they are protecting...

I've had threads that I was following, taken down. In each case, I could sense why. Think what would happen to all the archived threads, if we had to search through all the junk to get to the good stuff.

Last thing, if the thread was good. Why not wait a week, and re-post yourself, but this time, word it so they know its coming from someone devoted to the trades...


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Dairylander said:


> Something similar happened in this thread:
> 
> Please Help
> 
> ...


This is a site for contractors.Not HO's or DIY'ers...*WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR SOME TO UNDERSTAND?*


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

JumboJack said:


> This is a site for contractors.Not HO's or DIY'ers...*WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR SOME TO UNDERSTAND?*



So you're saying, it's ok for a home owner to post here? Oh wait a minute.....
never mind :thumbup:


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

If you think we're disrespectful and rude,just mosey over to the Plumbers only forum and stick your head in the door!:laughing:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

oldfrt said:


> If you think we're disrespectful and rude,just mosey over to the Plumbers only forum and stick your head in the door!:laughing:



That horse doesn't look well. :laughing:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Dairylander said:


> Why are you afraid of a conversation on format and policy?


Fear has nothing to do with it; this isn't a democracy. Nor is this the appropriate section of the forum for such discussions. If you seriously feel that such a discussion is necessary and appropriate, I would suggest that you start a thread in the Site Help and Suggestions area. :thumbsup:


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

neolitic said:


> That horse doesn't look well. :laughing:


 I was thinking of sending him over to the racking /stacking thread,but he's about .......................had it.


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