# dirt work questions?



## Ernie.Stefely (Jun 8, 2010)

*Try to break your questions into smaller, multiple posts*

here,s some insight.
Your physical dirt questions all hinge on the soils report. Very basically, A sheeps foot is used in clayey soil, a vibratory and smooth drum is used in sandy soil. Compaction percentage is based on astm d698 or d1557. A lot of the processing will depend on natural moisture content and the lab,s test of how much more water you need to add to achieve optimum moisture.
I would suggest getting a soils material text for non-engineers. It breaks down the mechanics of dirt processing and will go a long way to passing the compactions tests.


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## stillroughingit (Jun 18, 2011)

Ernie.Stefely said:


> here,s some insight.
> Your physical dirt questions all hinge on the soils report. Very basically, A sheeps foot is used in clayey soil, a vibratory and smooth drum is used in sandy soil. Compaction percentage is based on astm d698 or d1557. A lot of the processing will depend on natural moisture content and the lab,s test of how much more water you need to add to achieve optimum moisture.
> I would suggest getting a soils material text for non-engineers. It breaks down the mechanics of dirt processing and will go a long way to passing the compactions tests.


Do you have any sudgestions on where to get that book? 

thanks for you time!


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

stillroughingit said:


> No i have never done one with soil testing per say...i have had a few that we did compact and proof rolled with a loaded 10wheeler but never had it "tested" i guess...Not to blow wind up my skirt but i been doing residential since i was 14 or 15 i started cutting pads for my dad and as far as building houses and roads I'm just board with it and ready for a challenge(yes cuz im young and dumb i guess) even if i do loose a time or two in commercial work it wont take more than a time or two to learn(i hope) to figure it out enough to be ok at it or at leased not loose my ass at it...and i thank you for the advice and dont want you or anyone else to hold back any advise tips or comments you may have for me that's why i posted But i would like to know what you haven't mastered at 40 if you have been working in the same line of work for 20+ years i would think you have seen everything? what kind of work you do?


Do I know my stuff? Yes. Do you have to adapt & learn due to changes in wetland regulations, green initiatives, etc.? Yes. We do septic, sewer, water work along with res. & comm. site work & installing new roads. FYI, it helps to be humble. Confidence is good but over confidence can turn people & inspectors off. 

I'll give you credit because when I was your age I was more worried about the weekend then work. Nothing wrong with looking for different jobs but they don't allow you to compact with 10 wheelers on any comm. jobs that I've seen. Ambition is good but take it slow because you have a long time until retirement. Do some research but the only way to really gain experience is doing it.


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## jmacd (Jul 14, 2009)

I personally get scarred every commercial job I look at and quote. 
The feeling is not from lack of confidence to do the work but all about who the work is for. 
My investment is all up front waiting for pay that can take a very long time to get or never receive because of a very simple mistake on my part or for any mistakes on the General Contractors part, or just because the owner doesn't want to pay. You can have all your money held up for something as simple using the wrong seed mix depending on the owner, architect, inspector, GC, GC's other subs, and a bunch of other reasons.

You have to complete work before you get any pay for work, no deposits, you better know what is expected by all that is involved.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

rino1494 said:


> I just bid a commercial job. Cost me $90 to buy the bare minimum plans and the spec book. The spec book was 661 pages and did not include the MEP, which was a seperate book. I spent 2 weeks working on it, nights and weekends. Not sure if I got the job, but I highly doubt it.


My bid was $299,995 .........winning bid was $159,975.


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## Ernie.Stefely (Jun 8, 2010)

Use Caterpillar Company as your source. They have a book titled "Soil and Asphalt Compaction Manual." If you Google it, you'll find a listing through 'Specialities Sales LLC'. They have the book on-line. However, they only have the text part of the book (which makes reading it very dry.) If you can find a hard copy, the CAT edition has good pictures and references to make the concepts easier to understand.


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## Ernie.Stefely (Jun 8, 2010)

Originally Posted by *stillroughingit*  
_Hey thanks for the reply,but i think you may have misunderstood my questions...i didn't make them very clear i guess...first off how do you figure your cost..

Get a copy of the "Caterpillar Performance Handbook." Chapter 20 will help you understand 'Estimating Owning & Operating Costs' for your equipment. This is a great reference manual for helping you understand the methodology of how to calculate costs and production. Be carefull however, you need to use your level of production instead of what's in the book._


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## CatD8T (Apr 26, 2011)

Some of this may be repetitive, you got a lot of good advice, so I will try to add something.

I have been in sitework since I was a little kid, grew up in the family business. Our concentration, and mine to this day, has been earthwork. One thing I have learned through the years, with earthwork, owning equipment is a big advantage. Real profits are realized by equipment utilization. And you don't see any of these profits if you are renting.

Also, I have been working in PA, OH, NY, NJ, DE, MD. So that is where my experience and any advice stems from. May, or may not, apply to your region.


Some of the answers to your questions will vary depending on: Is it residential or commercial work? Is it private or public? Are you working directly for the owner or for a general contractor?



stillroughingit said:


> i want to get into commercial dirt/site work...pads, parking lots etc..


There is a lower working profit margin for this scope. Less materials and subs are a big portion. And as previously stated, people want to get the utilization numbers up, so they will be highly competitive on this work.



stillroughingit said:


> i can do a dirt takeoff(on some plans)


Are you performing digitally or by hand? Digital software is expensive (but well worth it), by hand is slow and less accurate.



stillroughingit said:


> Is that what you base your bid off of? A cubic yard price?


Bulk Earthwork:
Stripping Topsoil, Bulk Cuts/Fills, Import/Export, Topsoil Replacement
All by the Cubic Yard (CY)

Grading:
Finish Grade; Building Pad, Concrete Flatwork Areas, Topsoil Areas
All by the Square Foot (SF)
Finish Grade; Asphalt Paving, Reinforced Pavers
All by the Square Yard (SY)



stillroughingit said:


> my next question is stabilization....i understand you got to take off the topsoil do you haul it off or just pile it out of the way till the curbs get put in?


Loaded question. Depends on site logistics. Typically strip, stockpile, and replace as needed as required per plans and specs. Sometimes excess gets hauled off-site, or excess is used to build landscape berms and such.



stillroughingit said:


> and when you peel it off do you just start packing dirt back in there for the pad and parking?


You may have to do a proof roll to check existing subgrade. Depends upon geotechnical requirements. Then, you should only place fill on a level, scarified surface. Typically, you start placing your fill in lifts. This can vary pending upon multiple requirements. In PA, typically 8 inch lifts. If you are doing commercial work, usually the building contractor will want the pad first before doing any other non-sequenced work.



stillroughingit said:


> And how hard is it to meet compaction like whats the difference between 95% and 97% and at what % do you NOT need a packer


Your compaction requirements may be easily obtained or near impossible depending upon soil conditions. You may need to dry soils or wet soils. You may also need to provide an additive such as cement or lime. A geotechnical report can help with this, but typically knowing the soils first hand is the best bet. I have never seen a structural area (e.g. building pad, paving) not require compaction. In PA, a typical earthwork operation on decent soils will naturally compact soils to about 88 to 90%. However, building pads usually require 98%, paved areas are 94 to 98%, concrete flatwork areas are usually 95-98%, detention basin berms are typically 94-97%, non structural areas are usually 90-92%. And this is for typical commercial projects. So you can pretty much figure on running a roller on any lift you put in. Any time you tie your fill into a slope, you need to "key" in. This may, or may not, be engineered. Typically large fills have designed keyway trenches. You never want an angular fill to existing soils condition. Small fills, all you have to do is cut into the existing slope with a dozer to get a 90 degree angle to your fill, at least at a depth of your next lift.



stillroughingit said:


> and do you start with a sheep's foot then finish with a smooth drum?


You can, or you can just use a smooth drum and then have your dozer scarify in between each lift. you will always want a smooth drum on your job though, so you can seal up at the end of a day. You may be required to have a sheeps foot if the soils are wet. There is also static and non-static rolling. Rolling with the vibrator on will bring moisture to the surface, so wet soils little to no vibration, dry soils you will need the moisture.

Hope this helps. Good luck!


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## McCloskey (Jul 16, 2011)

*Estimating*

I suggest the following books:

1) Excavating & Grading Handbook, Revised; Nick & John Capachi
2) Excavation Hand Book; Horace K. Church

They are very well worth the price, they explain in detail the answers to your questions.

I have been in the Heavy/Highway business for 40 years and would be happy to share my insites and experance with you, on estimating, cost keeping, means & methods of construction, the care and feeding of employees and clients, equipment use and ownership, contracts and the most important lessons, 
1) LIVE YOUR WORD, your word must be gold
2) listen to that voice inside you, do not ever be afraid to walk away


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