# Done messed up.......



## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

I was the GC on this job 9 years ago. The vent that you see is a masonry fireplace vent. The vent faces the south and it's rare for us to get rain from the south. I think the water is pooling on the deck above it then falling through the cracks like a waterfall enabling the southern driven rain to be blown into the vent to cause this water problem.

Went to my masonry supply house today to see if they had any other type of vents that would rectify this problem, they had nothing.

I'm also thinking about fabricating an extension of some sort to project it away from the house. Or build some type of roof over it.

The HO's were the best clients I have ever had and I will make it right. I am responsible even though it was 9 years ago. Anyone have any ideas or new types of waterproof vents that are available ?

Just got my puter out of the shop today and I'm having probs posting old pics but if anyone wants to see the whole house, search "a log home that I built" in the carpentry picture post. Thanks....


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Is that a fresh air supply to the fireplace? If so, seems all you would need is a vent with a hood. Have a metal shop or a roofer who is good with copper make you up proper vent.


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## S Winklepleck (Jul 31, 2009)

I would think you could get a hooded vent pretty easy


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

S Winklepleck said:


> I would think you could get a hooded vent pretty easy


Do you think the water migrated from the vent down to the near door? Could it be a flashing problem from the ledger board? Seems like lots of water from one vent.


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## samccard (Aug 17, 2007)

Looks like it is coming from behind the deck ledger board. Hard to tell without seeing it in person.


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## deckman22 (Oct 20, 2007)

paulie said:


> Do you think the water migrated from the vent down to the near door? Could it be a flashing problem from the ledger board? Seems like lots of water from one vent.


It looks like the round log is funnelling water right back there. I vote for flashing on that ledger & a little piece of roof metal. That or have something fabricated vent wise, still the problem is the water coming thru the deck.

Btw, good job on fixing it right for your customer, 9 years later.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I saw a mock up of a deck awning system that would solve your problem. Basically it's a custom fabbed sheet metal roof that fits under the deck with gutters to funnel out all of the water. I forget what they're called at the moment.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Does the ledger have any drip flashing as it locks like there's none on the bottom.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

strathd said:


> I was the GC on this job 9 years ago. The vent that you see is a masonry fireplace vent. The vent faces the south and it's rare for us to get rain from the south. I think the water is pooling on the deck above it then falling through the cracks like a waterfall enabling the southern driven rain to be blown into the vent to cause this water problem.
> 
> Went to my masonry supply house today to see if they had any other type of vents that would rectify this problem, they had nothing.
> 
> ...


You are a GOOD man!

Integrity is priceless!!! I have been repairing similar water damage on a 12 year old tract home built by a big-time mega-builder (who just went bankrupt and tried to off himself with pills) It's not right that so many of his homes were put together so poorly.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

so the tyvek allowed it to get BEHIND it huh? hrmms.... Jenkies! I think we have found a clue!

Seriously, if Tyvek is supposed to be a water shield then the problem is above and on the back side of it.... has to be. Otherwise the log siding would be blown out and not the OSB. I vote Ledger board and the spot is wider than the vent. Did you notice any type of water infiltration? Water spots, failed seam?


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## Forry (Feb 12, 2007)

I've seen this same thing before when the Tyvek is trapped behind the ledger... pooling and then water trickling down in a few spots creating rot. Should be Z metal on top of ledger with Tyvek lapping over.


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

If I remember correctly we put a L type flashing on the ledger and behind the log siding above it before the deckboard went down. I will be taking off the osb in the morning (Didn't want to leave it open overnight). 

I should be able to tell where the main source of the water is coming from (hopefully). Man, I hope I don't have to dig to deep.... Lessons learned.

No z type flashing allthough that makes sense. 

I'll be back.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

check out what MAC did on his last deck


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## Mike(VA) (Jan 9, 2008)

I think you're getting water intrusion behind the log siding. Most likely coming from the deck above and wicking along and under the siding, not necessarily from bad flashing. Look at the door on the left and there is staining from water above the door but not connected to the area below the vent. Also, look at the underside of the deck; the white spots look like there is an excessive amount of water hitting that part of the deck. Overflowing gutter?
Might want to use felt rather than Tyvek in this area.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

This is a good diagram to show how the top and bottom flashing to be done. Notice the silicon over every bolt. I use rubber washers but does the same thing.


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## Birch (Jul 20, 2009)

*“The Miracles of Science”*

I think the House Wrap may be the problem. (“The Miracles of Science” :shifty: :no It leads people to believe things that they shouldn’t, thus it encourages poor flashing techniques. House wraps seem to provide more curb appeal during the construction phase than any real watershed benefits. (IMO)

In the excellent detail pic of the deck above, notice that the house wrap is not broken and lapped over the Flashings. The application is solely dependent on the exterior finish veneer for the water shed. The moisture resistant barrier is not shedding over the flashings. I think the siding should have felt paper (or something similar) lapping the flashing points at every horizontal line that requires flashing. 

The deck ledger, top and bottom, the vent, top and bottom, and the door and window header trim boards should all be flashed and have the moisture shield lapping these flashings. If flashing the bottom of the vent presents a problem, then put a 2x2 trim around the vent hole and step flash over the top and under the bottom trim, and install the vent over the trim and tucked under the top flashing. A little bevel, sloping out like a water table, on the bottom trim will create a drip-line edge too.


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## DrewD (Jun 10, 2007)

Just my thought, break the course of log siding at the top of the vent and and have a copper vent hood angled down built. Flash and tie in with Grace I&E. With the top of the vent so far out from the siding, even flashed properly your still asking for trouble with such a large surface area. I'm not sure from the pics, but a drip edge behind the ledger board should have installed to direct drips away from the top course of the siding.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

Birch said:


> I think the House Wrap may be the problem. (“The Miracles of Science” :shifty: :no It leads people to believe things that they shouldn’t, thus it encourages poor flashing techniques. House wraps seem to provide more curb appeal during the construction phase than any real watershed benefits. (IMO)
> 
> In the excellent detail pic of the deck above, notice that the house wrap is not broken and lapped over the Flashings. The application is solely dependent on the exterior finish veneer for the water shed. The moisture resistant barrier is not shedding over the flashings. I think the siding should have felt paper (or something similar) lapping the flashing points at every horizontal line that requires flashing.
> 
> The deck ledger, top and bottom, the vent, top and bottom, and the door and window header trim boards should all be flashed and have the moisture shield lapping these flashings. If flashing the bottom of the vent presents a problem, then put a 2x2 trim around the vent hole and step flash over the top and under the bottom trim, and install the vent over the trim and tucked under the top flashing. A little bevel, sloping out like a water table, on the bottom trim will create a drip-line edge too.


I have a proposal I am working on right now to take all the masonite lap off the front, add some type of moisture barrier (tyvek or tar paper) right now. Seems they didn't add any in under the lap 7yrs ago when it was built. Doing ALOT of research on what to use and pros and cons on the two.. I am leaning toward tarpaper. I have always used it in the past, but from what I have read/been exposed to it is just a better solution.










http://www.inspect-ny.com/BestPractices/Sheathing_Wrap.htm


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## Birch (Jul 20, 2009)

For the benefit of the OP, I copied and pasted some additional text about the table from the site nEighter linked in his post. There is more recommended reading there. Thanks for the link nEighter, it’s a keeper.

*Table of Performance Characteristics of Building Housewraps & Sheathing-Wrap Materials*

Installed carefully, any of the sheathing wraps can perform well and keep water out of walls. The three main choices are traditional asphalt felt, Grade D building paper, and the newer plastic housewraps. The optimal product will depend upon the siding choice, building details, and climate.

With any sheathing wrap material, however, the key to good performance is to carefully lap the material to shed water. This job has been made easier by the introduction of a number of peel-and-stick membranes for use around windows, doors, and other trouble spots. General performance characteristics of sheathing wraps are summarized the table just below, courtesy J. Wiley & Sons, ....


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

Agreed with Birch and others, there's no point in putting a barrier on the house if you then flash so that any water on the surface of the barrier winds up under the flashing.

Think like a drop of water, where are you going to go? If you have caught the water on the outside of felt, tyvek, whatever, then you need to keep lifting that drop of water away from the house at every flashing detail.

Water-proofing must be 'stepped' at every break.

I strongly suspect there is more happening here than a problem with a vent.

In the picture supplied by BCConstruction, the drip cap flashing and the Z flashing are both applied over the house wrap. Therefore they are of no use at all. Any water running down the house wrap is not lifted away from the house but is allowed to run behind the ledger and under the siding below. That method relies entirely on the integrity of the siding, any water that appears behind the siding will stay there.


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

Went out there today and scratched my head and looked around. Local forecast called for 50% chance of rain so I did'nt dig into anything. And of course it did'nt rain.

The white area that I mentioned earlier is wasted, put my finger right through the osb. Above that spot the osb is solid. But the mold is still there. How far it goes up I do not know. At this point I think the main source of water intrusion is at the white spot. Or could it be coming down in between the log siding and the housewrap and pooling there to cause the rot. Meaning it's coming from above that area. It could very well be wind driven pooling on the deck and going behind the siding and over the short flashing.

The second pic (close up) is an area slightly above the right side speaker and porch light. There are 3 spots like this above the doors and below the upper windows. I walked the whole house and these are the only places where the finish (sikkens) is gone. Water wicking through ? I don't know. But this wall faces the south and gets the most exposure too.

I would really like to just start taking siding off and get to the bottom of this. The problem though is if I keep taking siding off some of it is going to get damaged. Sure I can order more siding but matching the stain ain't gonna happen not with it being 9 years old.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

everybody's ready to blame the tyvek:blink:it was stated the house wrap didn't cover the flashing leg,inadequate flashing or a reverse lap is where you will find the trouble here

that log siding was originally used on vacation cabins around here and it was the outside siding and interior wall finish properly lapped its water resistant


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

yep got yourself a nice lil puzzle there. Keep us updated and with pics too.


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## Birch (Jul 20, 2009)

What I might do,

The longer it stays exposed the worse things are likely to get. I don’t see any horrible structural damage. You need to get it covered back up asap.

I’d remove the siding between the doors and peel the tyvek back to expose the OSB. Pull the doors, Pull the bottom piece on each side of the doors trying to not damage the tyvek. Flash the deck ledger top with ‘L’ flashing making sure the tyvek is properly lapped. Bend flashing under thresholds and silicone seal them very well. Paint w/Kilz or replace the stained OSB, House wrap, tar paper over that at trouble areas, and reinstall everthing.

This will probable fix the moisture intrusion issues and I would at least try this first. Give the customer your assurance that if the problem resurfaces you will fix it again. I would then send the photos you have taken to tyvek and the log siding manufacturer’s representatives for their advice on how to avoid this in the future. The deck attachment may be beyond their expertise. 

I think better flashing at the ledger top (not narrow step flashing), house wrap covered with tarpaper shedding over the flashing, increasing the step under the thresholds (lower the deck 1.5” to 2”), and lift the siding off the deck 1”, are the practices to change to improve the integrity of your deck attachment assemblies.

That is how I do them and I’ve never had an issue.

Also, like I said before, I generally don’t use the ledger method to attach decks to new constructions except on slabs. I hope there isn’t structural rot unseen behind the deck ledger. Best of Luck, Rock on.


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## catawba (Feb 13, 2009)

I was wondering,just out of curiosity,if that is visqueen ,poly, between sheetrock and stud wall ? If it is I know down south thats a no no ,because it does'nt let the house breathe and causes moisture problems.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

catawba said:


> I was wondering,just out of curiosity,if that is visqueen ,poly, between sheetrock and stud wall ? If it is I know down south thats a no no ,because it does'nt let the house breathe and causes moisture problems.


Above the Mason Dixson line, they want that.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It's funneling down between the doors. That is the weak spot. Obviously the doors were installed fine. You just have a funnel there, and it spreads out below.


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## catawba (Feb 13, 2009)

Thank's Warner, was'nt sure ,hence the question. I was'nt inferring that it was the cause,just wondering if it was SOP.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

That looks very similar to the can of worms i opened today. Didnt have camera with me but it was a screened door at the end of a hay loft in a horse barn. It just looked like side casing was rotten she wanted us to replace when we were patching the siding on that side from the addition. Started pealing cedar siding off and there was nothing there, 4 2x10x12 header for the doors at the end of the barn were gone, jamb gone. Start cutting it out and realize it was rotten all behind the casings on the upper door. Ive seen alot of rot but this was a wierd kind all the wood looked fine til you got to the backside of it then it just fell apart.

They didnt have any of the openings flashed just typar but after 12 years i wouldnt expected it to be that bad. I can understand the header gone though, weather end of building and it was just a 1x4 cedar board covering the end of cdx plywood. It really opened everyones eyes why i get on everyone to flash things properly. I cant really understand what they were thinking either, its an 8" siding with 6" coverage, no dry flashing behind laps. They slapped some caulk in a few bigger gaps but all the rain is gonna suck through the crack and run right down the wall.


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## finelines (Jul 18, 2008)

find somebody with this:

fluke tir1


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## samccard (Aug 17, 2007)

It does not look lke there is any flashing above the doors or windows water could be getting in around those and running down as well.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

That log siding is a pita to waterproof./

We did a project last year and because of the fear of intrusion we furred around the windows out to flush with the surface of the siding with 2" strips.
Then we used 3 1/2" pine to case the windows,extending past the siding/furring joint.Same on the outside corners.

We Z-flashed the tops of the windows across the 3 1/2" so the flashing would divert the water over the siding,away from the joint.

The windows were also furred out 1" over the sheathing so they wouldn't appear too deep and so the sill trim would be inside the window's (Andersen Clad) bottom edge.

All windows were also flashed w/Tite-Seal and the bottom edges ranover the top of the siding under the trim.

It was a ton of work,but probably will be worth it,especially with the window wall in this pic.which is bound to nget driving rain as it faces SW.


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## Rickle (Aug 24, 2009)

Ends and joints were not caulked.


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## Rickle (Aug 24, 2009)

Just look a closer look at some of the pics and it does look like the ends were caulked. The one close up of the joint shows no caulk.

Personally I think it's a caulk and maintenance issue.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

caulk? if your relying on caulk to stop that kind for damage theres something wrong


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## trimchiree (Jun 21, 2009)

a theroy: water dripping down the 2 large windows above the doors finds its way behind the bottom 1x window casing, runs under siding/OVER tyvek until it hits that reversed deck flashing where it makes its way behind the tyvek 

hmm idk, might be more damage to the door casings if it were the case though


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## samccard (Aug 17, 2007)

Did we ever hear how this was issue was resolved?


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