# Kitchen fireplace with cooking oven



## sven1277 (Jan 23, 2013)

l want to rebuild my chimney and add a fireplace in the kitchen at the same time. I have recently built a fireplace and chimney using Isokern. Is a cooking oven code compliant? What other factors should I consider? Thanks for your responses.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It can be. Here is a link to one, start to finish:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22404.0.html


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## sven1277 (Jan 23, 2013)

Thanks for the response. The pics are a great help. Looks like as long as it has a separate flue, its ok. For the course of bricks above the fireplace, did you use a temporary form until they set, or is there something more substantial helping to hold them in place? Thanks.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

That is not mine, but I am sure they used falsework for the arch.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

THAT guy builds a nice chimney!


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Any time brick goes across an opening and isn't as an arch there has to an angle iron supporting it.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Whoa, could learn a thing or 2 from him im sure.


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## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

dom-mas said:


> Any time brick goes across an opening and isn't as an arch there has to an angle iron supporting it.


You would think. A neighbor of mine said "my bricks are cracking above the fireplace.....I don't think there's an angle iron".......I said "is there an arch?".....she said "No"........I said "there_ must_ be, I'll come have a look"...

Sure enough.....there was no angle iron. And it was cracking all to hell. Now, I _know_ the guy who built it.....I assumed he knew what he was doing......his father was in business for fifty years......

Holy smokes. I told her it was not an inexpensive job, to get hold of (let's call him John Doe) and have him come fix it. 

I was blown away. Whatever he did to _temporarily_ hold it* had* to be more expensive/time consuming than using an angle iron...........


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

There are a few methods of building a soldier arch without an angle iron, although it does involve a bit more work. An insitu concrete lintel is formed on the second one.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

stuart45 said:


> There are a few methods of building a soldier arch without an angle iron, although it does involve a bit more work. An insitu concrete lintel is formed on the second one.
> View attachment 85446
> 
> 
> View attachment 85447


It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put in a relief arch above those threaded brick.

I like seeing ovens built in or next to fireplaces. We helped rebuilt a few beehive ovens from the 1700's and one in a house from 1692...lots of character!


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

How many courses above the angle would you think to place the relieving arch?


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

stonecutter said:


> It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put in a relief arch above those threaded brick.
> !


Good idea.
I've never used or seen that method used, it looks like a real pain to do.
The other method were the wall ties came out the back of the soldier course into the insitu lintel was more popular.
Soldier courses were often just built straight on top of timber window heads in the past. The problems occurred when Upvc windows replaced them and the brickwork dropped putting pressure on the frames and jamming them up or even cracking the glass.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

1x4 wood lintels were popular here in the early 1900's-1930's to hold the brick above bay windows. I've repaired a dozen of them. The rest of the windows all have jack arches, never understood why they didn't employ them for the bays


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

4x1 seems a bit weedy for a bay lintel. They used to have large beams known as Bressummers which were at least 4x4 over bays or shop windows.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

It's nuts. that thin little piece of wood spanning 6 or 8' with brick on top. The ones I've repaired had dropped by 1" or more in the centre by the time I got to them. Some had mostly dry rotted as well. Pretty common here to use a 10x18 cedar lintel with a jack arch as the face on mass masonry buildings. And store fronts often had beams spanning the most of length of the building so a sign could be mounted and a wood entabulature built so the rain wouldn't drip on peoples heads as they were looking in the shop window. For the most part the beams last quite well unless rain gets through. There's never any hope for the 1x4 tho


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Tscarborough said:


> How many courses above the angle would you think to place the relieving arch?


I have never had to build one above an unsupported jack arch, so I can't exactly say. The ones I have seen before, all seem to have at least 3 or more courses, depending on the mass above the arch. I would think there is a formula, but I have been unsuccessful finding one. Plus, the only relief arch I have done is in stone, and it was more for aesthetics than function.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I don't think there is a formula. I've seen relief arches that spring from the same line as the opening (on an old mill that has a jack arch over the sluice gate)and others that are
several feet above. i think it all has to do with however much weight you believe that the relief arch needs to carry


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I would think, but do not know, that it should be at least one course, but not more than 2 or 3 above a reinforced lintel, and right on the springlines of an unreinforced one.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dom-mas said:


> I don't think there is a formula.  I've seen relief arches that spring from the same line as the opening (on an old mill that has a jack arch over the sluice gate)and others that are
> several feet above. i think it all has to do with however much weight you believe that the relief arch needs to carry


Sean, those are some of the variables I have seen too.



Tscarborough said:


> I would think, but do not know, that it should be at least one course, but not more than 2 or 3 above a reinforced lintel, and right on the springlines of an unreinforced one.


T, that makes sense too. A relief arch more than a few courses above an unreinforced jack arch or lintel wouldn't do much good at all.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I think that so long as the relief arch is above the real arch by no more than 1/2 the span of the real arch that it would still be doing something.


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