# New business startup: What would you advise?



## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

For clarification, I am not working for myself yet. I intend to set out on my own in the next 8-10 months. During this time I will be attempting to line up a residential job or two and follow all of the steps required by my province, and municipality to acquire my license and appropriate bonding and insurance agents. I know that I will need to have an appropriate business plan in place, and I am receiving help on that end. It's not the start up that I would like advice on, it's the things that separate the good contracting businesses from the large percentage that fail in the first year. Looking back on all of your experiences and expertise, and taking into account the current business culture and market; what are the points of your first year in business that you would have changed or improved upon if you could do it again? What advice would you give to a fellow carpenter who is in the same position you once found yourself in?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Read How to Run A Successful Construction Company by David Gerstal , its a great start


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

Gersel's book is indeed the best book I have read on running a construction company. Also, I would focus a lot of time on sales and marketing. The main reason that construction companies fail is because of a lack profitable jobs and sales.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I would definitely buy some paragraph spacers right off the bat. You can usually find them online pretty reasonably.







I'm willing to part with a couple for your new start up. :laughing: 



asevereid said:


> For clarification, I am not working for myself yet. I intend to set out on my own in the next 8-10 months.
> 
> During this time I will be attempting to line up a residential job or two and follow all of the steps required by my province, and municipality to acquire my license and appropriate bonding and insurance agents. I know that I will need to have an appropriate business plan in place, and I am receiving help on that end. It's not the start up that I would like advice on, it's the things that separate the good contracting businesses from the large percentage that fail in the first year.
> 
> Looking back on all of your experiences and expertise, and taking into account the current business culture and market; what are the points of your first year in business that you would have changed or improved upon if you could do it again? What advice would you give to a fellow carpenter who is in the same position you once found yourself in?


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

Hah!


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Be realistic about the $ that will actually be coming in. Even if you are working 60 hour weeks, realize that will amount to approximately 20 billable hours per week. i.e. 60 hrs @ 60.00/hr does not equal 3600.00, but 1200.00. Break out the Ramen Noodles.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

You may want to update your profile with your location. You mentioned "province" in your op, are you in Canada? There are many (too many, _some_ might say :laughing from the Great White North on the site.


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Read How to Run A Successful Construction Company by David Gerstal , its a great start


X2.....:thumbsup:


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

J F said:


> You may want to update your profile with your location. You mentioned "province" in your op, are you in Canada? There are many (too many, _some_ might say :laughing from the Great White North on the site.


Meanwhile in Canada.......................


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## RoofSales (Dec 7, 2011)

Take the time to identify EXACTLY what niche/part of the market you will target.

Don't try to work with everyone. It is just as important to know who you won't work with as to know who you will.

Trying to please everyone is a major reason contractors fail. It's a hard lesson to learn... but to be successful you have to learn to "turn away" work. This is especially difficult when you're starting out, but that is also when it is the most important.

This is not to say you can't broaden your services over time... but starting out you will have a greater chance of success if you narrow your focus.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

asevereid said:


> During this time I will be attempting to line up a residential job or two...


Learn to schedule and up it to 3-4... :thumbsup:


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## ThreeSeasons (May 2, 2012)

90% of all new companies fail in the first 5 years.

They don't have a business model.

They are undercapitalized.

No marketing plan.

90% of all Franchises succeed, they have all the above.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

ThreeSeasons said:


> 90% of all new companies fail in the first 5 years.
> 
> They don't have a business model.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Lack of money is what kills most businesses. Period!

If you go in this underfunded you could spend many years just limping along. So my advice, which was learned the hard way.......is to make dam sure you have plenty of money. Sooner or later most problems in business stem from lack of money. 

Ill tell you this much, the times when I've had the most cash were the times when I made the best decisions. When I was broke it forced me to make poor decisions. "Hope" is a very dangerous thing in business. Don't play the "hope" card, instead save your money so you are well funded. Once you do this you can make smart decisions like marketing etc.

If you read through the thousands of posts here in the marketing area you will see all sorts of people doing all sorts of marketing. Use your head and decide which ones are marketing because they are broke or which ones are marketing because they have money. Lack of money forces poor decisions.

That's my only advice.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Oconomowoc said:


> Lack of money is what kills most businesses. Period!
> 
> If you go in this underfunded you could spend many years just limping along. So my advice, which was learned the hard way.......is to make dam sure you have plenty of money. Sooner or later most problems in business stem from lack of money.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Automated check/cash generation.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

I apologize for the bump on this thread, but I do value all of the information I am receiving from you all.
I am hoping to receive some more tips from you all...anything that stands out from your first year of business that you would have changed or done differently.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

have the confidence to charge what you're worth. this dovetails with what mike said about not having enough money.


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## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

My 2 cents:
A. Find a business consultant to coach you through all the business startup and ongoing business aspects. Or
B. Find someone that is business minded to partner with. Draw up a clear written agreement before you start to delineate each of your roles etc.

Good luck to you!


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Charge more. :thumbsup:

Most startups (myself included when I started my company) don't charge enough because they don't think the customer will go for it. Know your numbers. They don't lie. If your numbers say you need a 35% markup on your costs to pay the bills, don't mark up your jobs at 15% because you "feel" 35% is too much. It is what it is. Now it's your job to sell.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Coming from someone who has been walking the fence for quite some time.... here's my two cents.

I think you can over analyze and psyche yourself out. You join a forum like CT to get the best information to hedge your bet (smart)... IMO the more time you spend researching and comparing yourself to other models the more you doubt your preparedness. I don't speak for the membership here, but I'm willing to bet most folks weren't a lot more prepared than you.

Don't get me wrong...There is no better community than CT to offer insight along the way, but only you can decide whether or not you're ready. The best advise offered is from the members who just did it and learned along the way....

Most likely it is my own reticence coming out, but the point I'm trying to make is you're never going to feel/be prepared enough. Don't burn any bridges, set a date or a $$figure as a goal and stick to it! You're going to make mistakes no matter how fool proof your plan is....

Be honest, return calls, and communicate!


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

I would definitely focus on web promotion.


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## darrylb02 (May 27, 2012)

Read The E-Myth Contractor: Why Most Contractors' Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It. My accountant recommended it to me> Really helpful, quick read.


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## mnjconstruction (Oct 5, 2008)

plan and simple..... SAVE your money


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## cueball707 (Jan 18, 2007)

Read E-Myth Contractor, Mark Up and Profit, and just small business books in general. Make sure you have a lot of cash in the bank because you are most likely not going to have steady profitable work for the first few years. Also...figure out what it cost you to do business and base your rates on that. You situation is unique and only you know what it cost you to do business. Do not and I repeat do not take on jobs that are not profitable and you cannot predict the profitability of...that is a quick way to lose all your reserves...I've seen it happen a lot in this business. 

Also you need to realize that most contractors fail at business because they are good tradespeople but horrible business people. You have to be good at both in the beginning and in the long run you must hone your business skills if you want to survive.


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## shaedzs (Jan 26, 2012)

I'd put finding a successful mentor at the top of the list. It's a lot easier to learn from others that have developed a system for success. Next would be to have a strong marketing plan in place, followed by keeping your overhead low until work is flowing in.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I too agree with Mike about having enough money to start with, one of my mistakes was putting myself in way too much debt. Over use of credit cards, over running your accounts, etc will lead to wasting money on payments and interest. We are not in business to support banks or creditors, we are in business to prosper. These poor spending habits has hurt my business but a learning lesson too. I am almost paid off on all my debts and have found cash in my pocket more frequently. As said it takes money to run a business, if your handing it all over to the bank and creditors it becomes a real struggle to survive. From here on i pay cash for everything up front. If i do not have the money than the customer is required to front the money for large purchases. No more putting purchases on credit where i have to pay interest, that interest comes out of profit, that is poor money management!


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## thecabinetguy (Jun 4, 2012)

The worst day working for yourself is better than the best day working for someone else. Good luck on your journey!


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## QAtlantaRoofing (Jun 6, 2012)

RemodelGA said:


> Charge more. :thumbsup:
> 
> Most startups (myself included when I started my company) don't charge enough because they don't think the customer will go for it. Know your numbers. They don't lie. If your numbers say you need a 35% markup on your costs to pay the bills, don't mark up your jobs at 15% because you "feel" 35% is too much. It is what it is. Now it's your job to sell.


Best advice anyone can give right here. People will treat you worse if you make it cheaper or the will value you more when they pay more. Well in most cases.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

1) Know your target market
2) Know how to reach them.
3) Have the budget in place to do so
4) Keep your customers happy, and they will keep you happy with more referrals to grow your business.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

Bump...UPDATE: I am in the process of registering my name, and will be in talks with the city Licensing Manager soon. I am also shopping around for insurance rates, because while most of the insurance companies here in town offer contractors insurance; they also offer a lot of what I will not need. 
I am going to focus on interior renovations for now, with the focus on non structural changes (insurance), and I plan on expanding my services to deck design and installation come spring. I will be contacting the realtors in the city to see if I can generate some leads (but from what I have read in the forum, this is not always a good idea).
There is a website in development...but I need a portfolio. I have been involved in commercial construction for the majority of my short career, and never really had any projects that I did on my own that I could add to a portfolio. 
So, it is on the go, and I expect to hit some snags...still won't be up and running for a while yet.


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

Any work that you do should be added to your portfolio at this point. That includes work done on your own home, moms house, grandmas, cousins etc. it would be worth it to work for family for free a couple weekends if it meant you could get some pics of your quality work.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

Didn't really plan on dragging this corpse up, but here we go. 

My startup never got off the ground. Looking back.. I was completely unprepared financially and fundamentally. I did manage to get a good estimate of what I would need to get started financially though.
I went into it without really thinking it through, and now when I go to try it again I'll have a better idea of what I'm getting in to. 
I'm thinking that I may be able to start up on two years with the right planning and financial security in place. 
I've certainly learned a lot from the forum and its members, so thanks, all of you. 
For all the employees that want to strike out on their own : make a plan, be prepared, know your skills and who you want to market to, and don't be afraid to say no to a job. 
I'll stick with my current employer now because I think that they can provide the mentorship I need, and they already know I'm planning on going out on my own one day. At least through them I can continue to build my skills and experience.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

asevereid said:


> Didn't really plan on dragging this corpse up, but here we go. My startup never got off the ground. Looking back.. I was completely unprepared financially and fundamentally. I did manage to get a good estimate of what I would need to get started financially though. I went into it without really thinking it through, and now when I go to try it again I'll have a better idea of what I'm getting in to. I'm thinking that I may be able to start up on two years with the right planning and financial security in place. I've certainly learned a lot from the forum and its members, so thanks, all of you. For all the employees that want to strike out on their own : make a plan, be prepared, know your skills and who you want to market to, and don't be afraid to say no to a job. I'll stick with my current employer now because I think that they can provide the mentorship I need, and they already know I'm planning on going out on my own one day. At least through them I can continue to build my skills and experience.


 Can you tell us what played out . Was it just a money thing . Or your gut check saying no .


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## bob hutson (Mar 16, 2013)

what iga said ,I tried to be the cheapest when I started also. I was doing good work for free...save back a lot more $ than you think you will need. then market your self to everyone you know...


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

when I started out I had saved up enough to live for 6 months and also $30k for a van/tools/stock........that's the proper way to start out.....$0 debt and 0 worries financially

sounds like no one does it that way though...typically they have $0 to start....which means if you don't find work your out of business quickly and in debt for your tools

im a believer in acting like you've been in business forever on day 1....have your logo on your shirt/van/cards/invoices...everywhere

my normal job was m-thurs 10 hour days....so I would work for myself fri/sat/sun.....I figured it would take a couple of months and then id be able to quit my normal job....I was fully insured and had all my own tools/van....I basically had 2 full time jobs(without my normal job boss knowing)

id come up with excuses to MY customers why I could only work on fri/sat/sun....and it worked....I wasn't all that busy...I rarely worked on Sunday.....and 1/2 days on sat typically...it helped starting out part time/slow...I learned how to handle things and didn't need to worry about money......

well 8 months later and I was still working 2 jobs...not moving up much on my own business...my Boss saw a yard sign and drove by my house to see the 2 vans there(his and mine)....he hired a replacement and had me train him (I figured it out quickly)..a couple of days later I was walked off the job and fired.....very scary to be 100% on your own......but now I had tons of time for sales.....and all those cash reserves...but my wife was 8 months pregnant with my 2nd child......I struggled a bit, but not too much....I never touched that 6 months cash reserve...now its like $140,000.....probably going to be a winter condo in Florida when I retire

I recommend starting out part time on the side.....when you have too much business to handle part time then quit your full time job...your boss wont be happy, but that's the most conservative way to do it....

if you have no cash reserves I would wait...maybe work a 2nd job now to build up those reserves


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

bob hutson said:


> what iga said ,I tried to be the cheapest when I started also. I was doing good work for free...save back a lot more $ than you think you will need. then market your self to everyone you know...


I started out trying to be the cheapest also...didn't work well...after a couple of months I started charging what I felt I deserved and bring up quality/service instead of price and my sales took off....there's a price zone you need to be in to be considered legit...if your too low people are afraid you don't know what you are doing (and they are most likely right)

people can tell how long you've been in business..there is no way to hide the fact...its all in attitude and the words you choose....it took a year or so before people stopped asking me 'how long have you been in business'......it showed at the time...now it doesn't


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

I'm curious too as why the OPs deal didnt pan out. I'm in the same boat right now. Looking to branch out on my own here in North Dakota. 

What say you established guys in regards to advertising? 

I'm pretty much going into it not as cushy as Huggy thats for sure. I pretty much have to hit the ground running. The work is here. I'm just trying to figure out the best way of getting leads and getting my name out there


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Huggy is the prime example of how it should be done. Problem is...if most of us wait for all those things to be in place we will be employed for the rest of our lives. The reason most of us jump off into the self employed sea is because we are spinning our wheels at a day job going nowhere. Sometimes you just have to make chit happen and not let failure be an option....and if you do fail....you should have started with the mentality that you would rather give it everything you have and fail, then stay where you're at going nowhere letting someone else make a killing off you're hard work...at least that's how I look at it. Necessity is the mother of invention...(and small businesses).


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

Spencer said:


> Huggy is the prime example of how it should be done. Problem is...if most of us wait for all those things to be in place we will be employed for the rest of our lives. The reason most of us jump off into the self employed sea is because we are spinning our wheels at a day job going nowhere. Sometimes you just have to make chit happen and not let failure be an option....and if you do fail....you should have started with the mentality that you would rather give it everything you have and fail, then stay where you're at going nowhere letting someone else make a killing off you're hard work...at least that's how I look at it. Necessity is the mother of invention...(and small businesses).


YES

I agree completely. Sometimes I have my doubts and then fear of failure kicks in and I find myself seriously questioning my decisions.

But I have confidence in my product and locally I'm only matched by few. My concern is getting my name out there. I already started the process of becoming an LLC, becoming insured, and pulling my license. 

Thank you for your reply. Gave me new wind as I do my paperwork today.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

skillman said:


> Can you tell us what played out . Was it just a money thing . Or your gut check saying no .


Sorry I didn't get back to this right away. I'll be back later this evening to discuss this more.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Elite_ND said:


> YES
> 
> I agree completely. Sometimes I have my doubts and then fear of failure kicks in and I find myself seriously questioning my decisions.
> 
> ...


With that attitude must also be common sense, but it sounds like you have confidence in what you have to offer. Only you know your situation well enough to make wise decisions as to whether you're ready or not. If you look to the left, I've been putting my dues in on the forum since 2005. Soaking up everything I could. There comes a point when you have to stop being a wanna be and start running with the big boys. Only you know if its your time or not.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Having those reserves is often unrealistic.

I went on my own because one winter day the guy I worked for said he's closing the company and that's that. I didn't want to work for someone else for $15 a hour so I started on my own thing.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

asevereid said:


> Sorry I didn't get back to this right away. I'll be back later this evening to discuss this more.


I was a hack.

The start up never materialized for two reasons; the foremost being money. I was EXTREMELY under-capitalized...one month of living expenses only. I had just finished a 7 or 8 month run of commercial construction with two different contractors, and once the project was finished I was done with them. 
I was looking for employment at the time and trying to find side jobs. I was looking for deck builds, interior trim, and even spoke with a realtor about a rehab. So while any of these jobs would have provided wages, they were not going to supply capital. I would, in reality, just be better off working for someone else and trying to save money and working on a business plan.
The second reason was just the reality of running a legitimate business.
I found out REAL quick that I was not able to take most of the jobs I was looking at. Every time I went to look at a job I would look at what the scope of work would entail, make nice with the customer, etc., etc...but the word _liability_ kept popping into my head.
If I was only at a point where I was making JUST wages, I surely wasn't covering any real business expenses. That lack of financial prep killed a lot of opportunity for me. I ended up declining the majority of the jobs I looked at because I knew that if anything were to happen, my ass would be on the line.
I guess the long and the short of it was that I thought I could go out and make money on my own terms, but the reality of it put that to a stop right quick.
I am going to give it a shot again; but I won't be doing it until I am fully backed. 
Good luck to all the guys who plan (PLAN) to start up this year, we're all pulling for you.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

asevereid said:


> I was a hack.
> 
> The start up never materialized for two reasons; the foremost being money. I was EXTREMELY under-capitalized...one month of living expenses only. I had just finished a 7 or 8 month run of commercial construction with two different contractors, and once the project was finished I was done with them.
> I was looking for employment at the time and trying to find side jobs. I was looking for deck builds, interior trim, and even spoke with a realtor about a rehab. So while any of these jobs would have provided wages, they were not going to supply capital. I would, in reality, just be better off working for someone else and trying to save money and working on a business plan.
> ...


Thanks for being real and upfront about the whole thing. It takes a real man to admit that kind of stuff. Posts like this save others a lot of heart ache and bring us back to reality. I know I examined myself a lot from from your experience. Thanks for posting. :thumbsup:


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

Spencer said:


> With that attitude must also be common sense, but it sounds like you have confidence in what you have to offer. Only you know your situation well enough to make wise decisions as to whether you're ready or not. If you look to the left, I've been putting my dues in on the forum since 2005. Soaking up everything I could. There comes a point when you have to stop being a wanna be and start running with the big boys. Only you know if its your time or not.


My biggest issue that I'm trying to work out is getting my name out there. I hate to sound arrogant but where I'm at in North Dakota the number of quality builders that "care" and produce a quality product can be counted on one hand. Maybe two hands at times.

I'm developing my business model today and really developing my story as to why my business is a certain way and unique (I read E-Myth Contractor yesterday) 

I have confidence in what I sell. Reaching out to the clientele is my Moby Dick of sorts right now.


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Having those reserves is often unrealistic.
> 
> I went on my own because one winter day the guy I worked for said he's closing the company and that's that. I didn't want to work for someone else for $15 a hour so I started on my own thing.


I'm right there with you right now brother!

The current builder I work for is done with the business and since, I've concluded is rich, he doesnt really need the income or stress he's going to retire from being a GC. 

Luckily for me, he's willing to work with me on a lease to own plan to acquire most of the equipment as well as provide me with investment capital if I can figure out what I'll need and we agree to the terms of repayment, interest, etc


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

asevereid said:


> I was a hack.
> 
> The start up never materialized for two reasons; the foremost being money. I was EXTREMELY under-capitalized...one month of living expenses only. I had just finished a 7 or 8 month run of commercial construction with two different contractors, and once the project was finished I was done with them.
> I was looking for employment at the time and trying to find side jobs. I was looking for deck builds, interior trim, and even spoke with a realtor about a rehab. So while any of these jobs would have provided wages, they were not going to supply capital. I would, in reality, just be better off working for someone else and trying to save money and working on a business plan.
> ...


Well I think its better to have tried and failed than to have never tried. At least now you've got the experience and can make changes for when you go out on your own again. Thank you for posting!


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Elite_ND said:


> My biggest issue that I'm trying to work out is getting my name out there. I hate to sound arrogant but where I'm at in North Dakota the number of quality builders that "care" and produce a quality product can be counted on one hand. Maybe two hands at times.
> 
> I'm developing my business model today and really developing my story as to why my business is a certain way and unique (I read E-Myth Contractor yesterday)
> 
> I have confidence in what I sell. Reaching out to the clientele is my Moby Dick of sorts right now.


That is kind of a big thing....if you don't have you're name out there at all you are cruisin for a bruisin. In that case you better have some reserve capital otherwise how are you gonna pay your bills? If no one knows about you at this point where is the work going to come from? These are questions you need to be able to answer. Sounds like you have trade skills but no business plan????


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

Spencer said:


> That is kind of a big thing....if you don't have you're name out there at all you are cruisin for a bruisin. In that case you better have some reserve capital otherwise how are you gonna pay your bills? If no one knows about you at this point where is the work going to come from? These are questions you need to be able to answer. Sounds like you have trade skills but no business plan????


For one, I haven't completed the licensing part of this endeavor. Being licensed and insured is a selling point in my area. I'm still spraying out the foundation if you will. 

Getting that established, turns the key on getting the given advertising tools done. Business cards, mass mailings or any valid form of adverstising. Hell even plain old knocking on doors. The work is here and although that sounds like a lame song it's truly valid in my part of ND. Plus I can utilize one of my Aces which is being an associate with the head building inspector and having his endorsement. Lastly, my current employer is willing to be an investor in my business. I have to develop a sales pitch for him as well. Luckily my overhead is currently rather small. 

I'm not entirely going at this blindly. I got a stick lol


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Elite_ND said:


> For one, I haven't completed the licensing part of this endeavor. Being licensed and insured is a selling point in my area. I'm still spraying out the foundation if you will.
> 
> Getting that established, turns the key on getting the given advertising tools done. Business cards, mass mailings or any valid form of adverstising. Hell even plain old knocking on doors. The work is here and although that sounds like a lame song it's truly valid in my part of ND. Plus I can utilize one of my Aces which is being an associate with the head building inspector and having his endorsement. Lastly, my current employer is willing to be an investor in my business. I have to develop a sales pitch for him as well. Luckily my overhead is currently rather small.
> 
> I'm not entirely going at this blindly. I got a stick lol


Sounds good. How about your ex-employer giving you his leads? Or are those jobs to big?

That is good that you've got some connections. Its important to have a couple of those ace cards getting started. Otherwise it would probably be best to do side work for a few years to build up your reputation.


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

Spencer said:


> Sounds good. How about your ex-employer giving you his leads? Or are those jobs to big?
> 
> That is good that you've got some connections. Its important to have a couple of those ace cards getting started. Otherwise it would probably be best to do side work for a few years to build up your reputation.


We've got one potential lead on a custom home. A relative of the current homeowner is impressed with the quality of the work we've done at his "hunting cabin" and wants us to build her home. My employer was 75% a windshield contractor so the quality she sees is my own. That leads me to a dilemma when I show people what I can do because I "didnt" build those project per se. 

Thats about all we got in the terms of leads as his goal has been to get out of the business after this one. 

I agree. I need to nurture more of those relationships in order to get my name spread around town.


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## JackP23 (Jan 1, 2013)

Elite......what part of ND are you callin home?


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## Elite_ND (Feb 11, 2014)

JackP23 said:


> Elite......what part of ND are you callin home?


I'm currently in southwest ND


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