# Recessed Lighting Cans - Remodel vs. New Construction



## MTN REMODEL LLC

rselectric1 said:


> I'm in conduit land as well as some of the others above might be. We can't use romex at all (except for low voltage wiring). All open ceilings require NC cans. No greenfield is allowed either if it's deemed accessible during the work.
> 
> Just a geographical thing I guess.


RS.... I've heard that about Chicago. Is it just Chicago, or the entire suburban area.... any idea why.... I've never heard of any other juruisdiction with a conduit only in residential.

Just interested


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## rselectric1

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> RS.... I've heard that about Chicago. Is it just Chicago, or the entire suburban area.... any idea why.... I've never heard of any other juruisdiction with a conduit only in residential.
> 
> Just interested


Not just within the city limits, but approximately a 30 to 50 or so mile radius. Only a guess on that radius. I'm in the suburbs but I'd have to drive pretty far to be able to use romex for line voltage wiring.

As far as why...I've posed this question to many people and the overwhelming, (but not real sure) response is *always* that the local unions were behind it somehow many years ago. Even ancient houses mostly have it.

I've got no answer as to why. Nobody seems to know.

It's gotten even more crazy though. About 7 years ago on a basement remodel, I had to run a dedicated conduit from the water meter to the exterior for....get this....the exterior water meter reading unit. The amperage/voltage on that couldn't kill an already energized mosquito but it HAD to be in conduit per code.

I'm so used to conduit now that I damn near prefer it and would probably run it even if I had a choice not to. Weird eh?


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## ryanshull

Inner10 said:


> Get a new electrician...not new lights.


It was an honest mistake, but would have been easily avoided by using the new construction cans.


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## Inner10

ryanshull said:


> It was an honest mistake, but would have been easily avoided by using the new construction cans.


What's the difference between leaving the wire in the wrong spot and leaving a can in the wrong spot?


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## ryanshull

rselectric1 said:


> As far as why...I've posed this question to many people and the overwhelming, (but not real sure) response is always that the local unions were behind it somehow many years ago.


Union influence in Chicago......... No way!?!?


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## ryanshull

Inner10 said:


> What's the difference between leaving the wire in the wrong spot and leaving a can in the wrong spot?


I guess I assume the can would have been in the right spot if it was hung before drywall. I would have been able to catch a can out of place befor the rock went up, and the extra out of place can wouldn't have been necessary.


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## tjbnwi

rselectric1 said:


> Not just within the city limits, but approximately a 30 to 50 or so mile radius. Only a guess on that radius. I'm in the suburbs but I'd have to drive pretty far to be able to use romex for line voltage wiring.
> 
> As far as why...I've posed this question to many people and the overwhelming, (but not real sure) response is *always* that the local unions were behind it somehow many years ago. Even ancient houses mostly have it.
> 
> I've got no answer as to why. Nobody seems to know.
> 
> It's gotten even more crazy though. About 7 years ago on a basement remodel, I had to run a dedicated conduit from the water meter to the exterior for....get this....the exterior water meter reading unit. The amperage/voltage on that couldn't kill an already energized mosquito but it HAD to be in conduit per code.
> 
> I'm so used to conduit now that I damn near prefer it and would probably run it even if I had a choice not to. Weird eh?


I have no clue as to the why either, as you said it becomes just second nature. I suck at NM. 

The conduit through the wall for the meter is there for the meter installer to pass the wire without having to drill the wall. I don't know of any suburb that has not amended the code to include the stub. 

Travel to another area of the country and do an install, you'll get a lot of strange looks over it. 

Tom


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## overanalyze

Remodel cans are just that..for remodeling applications. If there is open attic space I will still use a new construction can even in a remodeling application. This week I installed about 15 remodeling cans. They were going in first floor ceilings with a second floor above. Even though it wasn't required,I still used IC rated cans.


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## ohiohomedoctor

Remodel cans make good jobsite footballs..


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## The Coastal Craftsman

What new construction IC boxes are you guys using that allow you do install after drywall is up. The only ones around here I can find have to have the drywall down to install. Same goes for bathroom fans. What fans are made that can be installed after drywall is up. The only ones I can find always need a patch of drywall taken down even when they say old construction.


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## Tinstaafl

BCConstruction said:


> What fans are made that can be installed after drywall is up.


All of them, as long as you have access from above.

Most of them, even if you don't have that access. You only need to open up the drywall for duct & electrical.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

Tinstaafl said:


> All of them, as long as you have access from above.
> 
> Most of them, even if you don't have that access. You only need to open up the drywall for duct & electrical.


Seems I'm not using the right brands. The last 4 I put in all needed the drywall cut out. It was one of two reasons it wouldn't install with drywall up. Either the flange on the bathroom side of the fan didn't allow it to be installed from the attic or the outlet for the vent didn't allow it to be installed from the bathroom side. In the UK I would just be able to cut the hole to the required size and insert the fan unto from the bathroom and then tighten the clips from inside the bathroom and connect wiring from inside bathroom. Only thing to get into loft for was RO connect the vent up. 

I can't find any like that over here so if you guys have some recommendations on what brand and model to use would be great. Got a few to do in the next few weeks so will be good time to try them.


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## Tinstaafl

I honestly have never encountered one of any brand that I couldn't install from above. I'll grant that a good number of them can be problematic going in from the finished side due to duct fittings and flanges.

I don't do enough of them to have specific model numbers at the tip of my tongue.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

The stupid thing is that even when the drywall is down when it goes up it has to be done in 2 sections as the drywall can't be put up in one sheet as the flanges stop that.


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## overanalyze

BCConstruction said:


> The stupid thing is that even when the drywall is down when it goes up it has to be done in 2 sections as the drywall can't be put up in one sheet as the flanges stop that.


The flange isn't meant for drywall to be installed...it's for stiffening the cheap sheet metal...at least on Broan and Nutone. IMHO.


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## SclafaniBuilder

BCConstruction said:


> Seems I'm not using the right brands. The last 4 I put in all needed the drywall cut out. It was one of two reasons it wouldn't install with drywall up. Either the flange on the bathroom side of the fan didn't allow it to be installed from the attic or the outlet for the vent didn't allow it to be installed from the bathroom side. In the UK I would just be able to cut the hole to the required size and insert the fan unto from the bathroom and then tighten the clips from inside the bathroom and connect wiring from inside bathroom. Only thing to get into loft for was RO connect the vent up.
> 
> I can't find any like that over here so if you guys have some recommendations on what brand and model to use would be great. Got a few to do in the next few weeks so will be good time to try them.


I just did 3 fans, 2 went in no problem, the duct outlet was near the top of the unit. Then the other one had the outlet near the bottom, which wouldn't allow me to install without cutting a 9"x3" piece of drywall out and patching after. Unless installed from the top. I thought they were all nutone brand.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

overanalyze said:


> The flange isn't meant for drywall to be installed...it's for stiffening the cheap sheet metal...at least on Broan and Nutone. IMHO.


The instructions show the flange going the bathroom side and the flanges are over 1/2" and site over the drywall. The 3 brands I have used of the top of my head were Habour breeze, Broan and utilitech. Perhaps I will try the nutone brand next or splash out and go panny.

Here's the flange on this one. The reason I couldn't get this one in was because when you slide it in at an angle from the bathroom it hits the top of the case of the drywall before its anywhere near going in. Had to cut about 2" bigger hole on one side to get it in them repair drywall. This on would be impossible to install from above and so would all the others input in upto yet because of the flanges.


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## overanalyze

BCConstruction said:


> The instructions show the flange going the bathroom side and the flanges are over 1/2" and site over the drywall. The 3 brands I have used of the top of my head were Habour breeze, Broan and utilitech. Perhaps I will try the nutone brand next or splash out and go panny.
> 
> Here's the flange on this one. The reason I couldn't get this one in was because when you slide it in at an angle from the bathroom it hits the top of the case of the drywall before its anywhere near going in. Had to cut about 2" bigger hole on one side to get it in them repair drywall. This on would be impossible to install from above and so would all the others input in upto yet because of the flanges.


Wow..those flanges are much larger than ones I have used. The fans I use have maybe a 1/4" flange.


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## tedanderson

I'd stick with the remodel cans (code permitting) if the HO is especially particular about where they want the lights, how they want them to shine, etc.. but they aren't quite sure where to put them. 

Doing a change order on a remodel can is much more feasible to do with half of the effort.


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## TAHomeRepairs

BCConstruction said:


> I can't find any like that over here so if you guys have some recommendations on what brand and model to use would be great. Got a few to do in the next few weeks so will be good time to try them.



Nutones are okay, but the Panasonic ones are sweet, well built and super quiet, high cfm as well


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