# carpenters union info



## briankemery (Jan 11, 2014)

my name in brian, i am taking the carpenters union tests at the end of jan for jersey and taking the phila test in april. from what i hear after you past the test you must either know someone to get in or find a company that will sponsor you. im just looking for any helpful info on how to find some one to sponsor you and any ways top increase my chances of getting in. iv been working for contractors for 6 yrs. since i was 17 and im just looking to get into the union to secure a job and get good pay and benefits.


please any info would be great


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

all I've heard is that the carpenter's union in NJ is pretty beat. I know guys that run union companies and they said the general practice is any time you need anything built you get a foreman from the carpenters hall and then just have him work with your general laborers. so if you're a journeyman you rarely get to work. one of these guys also doesn't have a contract with the carpenters union and just brings us in on prevailing wage whenever he needs something done cause he said what we get done in 1 day takes the union guys 1 week. and I know it's the same with a lot of other companies. I know that doesn't help you, but just thought I'd give you a heads up


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

You will probably be able to get work right away because you will be an apprentice... Then once you hit Journeyman wages you need to be worth your weight for a company to keep you around.


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## africanrye (Oct 3, 2013)

I've been in for 7 years now. I went through the 4 yr apprenticeship school and am now a journeyman. Its been rough to say the least. Im laid off more than im working. Its basically all about who you know. Being an apprentice, you will work more because you're cheaper labor than journeyman. Ive learned way more in residential than the union. If you want Steady work, id go work for a guy that will teach you everything, then go out on you're own.


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## zabbo (Jan 16, 2014)

I totally disagree with what the others are saying. I've been in the union for 6 years and I'm hardly ever laid off. I was actually laid off more as an apprentice than as a journeyman. Where else can you go make $36 an hour, have a pension, annuity, and full health insurance? I don't know how it works in your area but in mass we need to pass a test and drug test then we can start going to jobsite to look for work. I'm 26 and I own a house and we're doing a lot better financially than most people I know my age.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

yeah, we're talking about NJ not mass.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

I went through the 4 year apprenticeship in pittsburgh, I have been in for 7 years I have only been laid off for about 3 months in 7 years. It is what you make of it. Don't listen to these non union guys they are so much better, and so much faster. That's all a bunch of bs at least here in pittsburgh it is anyhow. Yes I have seen bad union guys but honestly the competition in the union is harder their are so many good carpenters. Yes their are good non union guys also, but they are fewer and farther between because they were not brought up through a 4 year apprenticeship program and taught all the formalities. But you must remember it is what you make of it you know? You gotta bust your ass, show up on time, and learn all you can


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

No need to know someone or to have a sponsor.

Believe me I know. I took the tests, passed the tests and got In right after high school.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

ubcguy89 said:


> I went through the 4 year apprenticeship in pittsburgh, I have been in for 7 years I have only been laid off for about 3 months in 7 years. It is what you make of it. Don't listen to these non union guys they are so much better, and so much faster. That's all a bunch of bs at least here in pittsburgh it is anyhow. Yes I have seen bad union guys but honestly the competition in the union is harder their are so many good carpenters. Yes their are good non union guys also, but they are fewer and farther between because they were not brought up through a 4 year apprenticeship program and taught all the formalities. But you must remember it is what you make of it you know? You gotta bust your ass, show up on time, and learn all you can


have you worked alongside non-union guys and seen for yourself the speed difference? I've worked alongside union guys and not only were they slow as ****, they actually yelled at me for working "too fast".


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Hmm how about a now non union guy who went through a 5 year union apprenticeship program..


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

I went through a 4 year framing "apprenticeship". aka work.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

asgoodasdead said:


> have you worked alongside non-union guys and seen for yourself the speed difference? I've worked alongside union guys and not only were they slow as ****, they actually yelled at me for working "too fast".


Yes I have, and believe me your full of ****. The reason you worked with those guys is because they were the ones laid off scabbing because they suck and are slow.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

they weren't scabbing. it was a prevailing wage job. I was 1 of 3 non-union guys on a job of like 30. the boss brought us in cause he said what we got done in 2 days would have taken the union guys 2 weeks.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

I really highly doubt it, considering that contractor would have been fined by the union


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

ubcguy89 said:


> I really highly doubt it, considering that contractor would have been fined by the union


If you're referring to AGAD's post, I've seen non-union on union jobs. The men don't usually speak too highly of each other, both ways, but if it's prevailing wage or however it works out, as long as everyone plays by the rules, it gets to fly.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

I got no problem union or non union. I'm union, and I understand we all need to support our families. But don't put me down because I'm union. I'm proud of my job, my work, and my union. I will put my skills to test with the best of em.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

ubcguy89 said:


> Yes I have, and believe me your full of ****. The reason you worked with those guys is because they were the ones laid off scabbing because they suck and are slow.


I have to agree here, I've been on both sides. I have to tell you I worked a lot harder in the union. Simply put there were a ton of guys that wanted your job because it payed more money and gave families benefits. I literally had to run walk when I went from one place to another. They were firing guys constantly to try and pick up the pace. Actually it was brutal. But I was young and loved the money. We built some highly intense projects that ran 24 hours around the clock under lights. The company motto was DPR always met their deadline! One job we built a four star hotel casino and large parking structure in less the a year. It was the Pala Casino near San Diego. Mainly built biotech facilities.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

not putting you down. just saying how it is around here and what I've seen


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The company I worked for wasn't your typical company it was one of the finest companies to work for in the world.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2010/snapshots/57.html


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> The company I worked for wasn't your typical company it was one of the finest companies to work for in the world.
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2010/snapshots/57.html


There's a reason why the majority of your large construction and infrastructure projects almost always go union. The skill, training, and manpower are their. Deadlines are always met, how many contractors can get bonded, afford permits, material cost, labor... For a 400 mil project before the first draw?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

A company that has annual revenues of 1.8 billion dollars ( DPR ) That's an amazing amount of large contracts.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

ubcguy89 said:


> There's a reason why the majority of your large construction and infrastructure projects almost always go union. The skill, training, and manpower are their. Deadlines are always met, how many contractors can get bonded, afford permits, material cost, labor... For a 400 mil project before the first draw?


 No because you get payed by the tax payer . Roads , schools , hospital , world trade , bridges . All funded by the little man .


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

skillman said:


> No because you get payed by the tax payer . Roads , schools , hospital , world trade , bridges . All funded by the little man .


Not true. Biotech, Casinos, hospitals are mostly private. Labs, I've was in the Union and rarely worked on G projects


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> Not true. Biotech, Casinos, hospitals are mostly private. Labs, I've was in the Union and rarely worked on G projects


 New York City is built on tax funded jobs .


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Just about every sky rise in the U.S. is a private building usually Union built


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

D. Trump pays a fortune to build apartments in N.Y.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> D. Trump pays a fortune to build apartments in N.Y.


 Yes he does . But there's also a lot of public funded jobs that support unions . Don't have anything to grind .


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

skillman said:


> New York City is built on tax funded jobs .


my friend built a table for a NYC trade show booth and the stipulations was it needed to be assembled by union carpenters on site. so he gets there and there's 4 of them (the company who had the booth was being charged $125 per guy per hour) and he assembled and disassembled twice as many walls/dividers by himself as these 4 guys combined. the trade show people were pissed but it was mandated.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

Union carpenter here. I have heard of the horror stories of the east coast carpenters unions, or all unions for that matter. I haven't heard anything good. matter of fact, its a disgrace what they do and how they act. Those who want to join a good carpenters union, need to come to Portland or Seattle. If you don't work hard, your fired. period. strong unions here. Portland wages are almost 34 and seattle is around 38 bucks an hour. plus you get to live in a beautiful place instead of a nasty, and stinky hole. But...all the above is just my opinion. i just call it like i see it..:whistling


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

windygorge said:


> Union carpenter here. I have heard of the horror stories of the east coast carpenters unions, or all unions for that matter. I haven't heard anything good. matter of fact, its a disgrace what they do and how they act. Those who want to join a good carpenters union, need to come to Portland or Seattle. If you don't work hard, your fired. period. strong unions here. Portland wages are almost 34 and seattle is around 38 bucks an hour. plus you get to live in a beautiful place instead of a nasty, and stinky hole. But...all the above is just my opinion. i just call it like i see it..:whistling



It's the same here in a Cali, Union Carpenters work very hard. It's very competitive. You have to stay on your toes if you want to stay busy here.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Just about every sky rise in the U.S. is a private building usually Union built


all the highrises around here are union jobs, but they sub the framing out to non-union crews and pay them prevailing wage to get it done faster. we did a few back in 05-06 and have priced a bunch since.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

ubcguy89 said:


> There's a reason why the majority of your large construction and infrastructure projects almost always go union. The skill, training, and manpower are their. Deadlines are always met, how many contractors can get bonded, afford permits, material cost, labor... For a 400 mil project before the first draw?




The reason why most large infrastructure projects go union is because it's usually in the front end of the RFP that it has to go union, or at least be prevailing wage. I work for one of the largest union contractors in North America, and on large federally funded projects it usually mandates union labor. I really don't care either way, I've been on both sides of the fence and there are pluses and minus to both.... In the U.S. 8% of all construction goes union. FYI


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> D. Trump pays a fortune to build apartments in N.Y.




Trump burns contractors and subs on every job...... They approve all change orders to get the project built as fast as possible, then at the end of the project his lawyers hand all the contractors back charges.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

yep. trump has bankrupted tons and tons of contractors. Dude is a scumbag.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Were I'm from 70% of all construction goes union. In commercial work scabs are damn near non existent. No union contractor subs out to scabs. But we work hard, bust our ass, and the guys who don't are sitting on the couch. The competition is too damn good to be lazy.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

ubcguy89 said:


> Were I'm from 70% of all construction goes union. In commercial work scabs are damn near non existent. No union contractor subs out to scabs. But we work hard, bust our ass, and the guys who don't are sitting on the couch. The competition is too damn good to be lazy.


Define scab


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Scab: strikebreaker
Scab: worker who refuses employment in a union


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

who says we refuse to work in a union? if a union company came along and offered me a job and to keep me busy all year, i'd take it. in the meantime, i'll take $65/hr whenever they wanna bring me in.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

asgoodasdead said:


> who says we refuse to work in a union? if a union company came along and offered me a job and to keep me busy all year, i'd take it. in the meantime, i'll take $65/hr whenever they wanna bring me in.


65? what does that represent? i know it isn't take home pay. are you talking prevailing? if so, there is a balance of do you want it here and now, or do you want to think about the long haul. pension when you retire, and healthcare for the family.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

prevailing wage. $65/hr before taxes. and I am thinking long haul. where I live, union carpenters sit home half the year. so I'm better off working 6 days a week residential and do prevailing wage whenever I can get it.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

asgoodasdead said:


> prevailing wage. $65/hr before taxes. and I am thinking long haul. where I live, union carpenters sit home half the year. so I'm better off working 6 days a week residential and do prevailing wage whenever I can get it.


if all your doing is framing, then i can see how it would be hard to stay working in the union. I am a interior finish carpenter. Portland UBC local 156. Its typical, if you can work, and work smart to start and then retire with the same company. Or bounce between a couple companies if one is getting slow. its all about your reputation. if your slow, if you are not so bright, if you screw up a lot, and if you are loud and obnoxious, most likely you wont be working for long or with the same company again. unions are what drive the wages. if you didn't have unions, you wouldn't have prevailing. bottom line. 
Asgood, looks like you need to move to the west coast...:thumbup:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

I guess i am a scab.
Now you ****ing got me going after reading that.
What does it matter, union or non union.
We are all in the same boat,, carpentry.. black, blue, purple.. all the same ****.. carpentry.
You are in the union cool, i am not.. we both do carpentry.
Could you do a better job then me because you are union?
Nope, union has nothing to do with it. If anything you have better training because the union has resources available.
So, Mr union. Before you go calling us non union guys scabs, why don't you get off your high horse 
Why the politics about non union and union? I am not sure, when it comes to doing the job.. its about doing it, right, quick and in a cost effective manner.
If a ****ing african elephant can do a job just as good and cheaper then you
Work is put up for tender, if you get it, cool fantastic, ill get the next one. But if us "scabs" get it.. its all of a sudden a case of "you are talking food off my table, and we are going to strike"

You guys are striking because us ****ing scabs are taking your jobs? Well, clearly with you guys on strike you are busy and can't do the job.. so we will do it for you.
You guys seem to have a sense of entitlement for jobs.. I guess non union guys don't need to work too?
You guys have big bad union attitudes, but if you throw all that out of the equation, we are all in the same boat. Union, non union... Work is out there for both of us. So let the best group win.
And oh ya?
"People who refuse to work union"
We aren't refusing ****, we are making a choice to not join.
There is no law, or regulation that says we must be in a labour union.. so If you don't mind, on behalf of us scabs, i would like to request for you to please change the definition of scab.. to "someone who chooses not to work union"
Enough of my rant, i got to get back to work.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

the word "scab" doesn't bother me, cause who cares?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

asgoodasdead said:


> the word "scab" doesn't bother me, cause who cares?


The only reason it offends me, is because i take just as much pride in my work. And i won't let someone degrade me and my work, and fellow workers because of a choice we have made.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

FramingPro said:


> The only reason it offends me, is because i take just as much pride in my work. And i won't let someone degrade me and my work, and fellow workers because of a choice we have made.



i guess that means your not joining any time soon..:no:

Im assuming your not talking to me cause i did not slander any nonunion folks. as a matter of fact i was upset at how horrible the east coast unions are. shameful. 
I was non union for a long time, but, and i do mean but, as soon as i joined the union, my and my family's life changed. I had my own siding and framing company in a small dutch town on a island..and well...I aint dutch. long story short, i had to give up my business. a school was being built by union contractor on the island. i inquired and they told me i had to join the union. The only thing i knew about unions was to stay away. curiosity came over me, so i investigated. wages were 12 bucks more an hour than anything i could get in town so i jumped on the opportunity. I haven't looked back. that was in 1999. i moved off the island and down to southwest washington across the border from portland oregon. it was slow at first, but as soon as i got on board with a company i flourished. I never got laid off during the bad economy and am still going strong. 
if your in business for yourself, i honestly wish you the best of luck. im not business savvy, so i will leave it to those who can do it and succeed. You appear to be young and are working 7 days a week. at some point, its going to get old. i hope your ducks are in order and you are working for a purpose, other than to pay bills, whether thats household or bar tabs. 
i sound like an old man talking to his son, but i always wish the best for people in whatever they do. its tough out there, i don't care who you are. Good luck in you ventures


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

windygorge said:


> i guess that means your not joining any time soon..:no:
> 
> Im assuming your not talking to me cause i did not slander any nonunion folks. as a matter of fact i was upset at how horrible the east coast unions are. shameful.
> I was non union for a long time, but, and i do mean but, as soon as i joined the union, my and my family's life changed. I had my own siding and framing company in a small dutch town on a island..and well...I aint dutch. long story short, i had to give up my business. a school was being built by union contractor on the island. i inquired and they told me i had to join the union. The only thing i knew about unions was to stay away. curiosity came over me, so i investigated. wages were 12 bucks more an hour than anything i could get in town so i jumped on the opportunity. I haven't looked back. that was in 1999. i moved off the island and down to southwest washington across the border from portland oregon. it was slow at first, but as soon as i got on board with a company i flourished. I never got laid off during the bad economy and am still going strong.
> ...


Nope, not directed at you


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## cairnstone (Oct 26, 2008)

I think the biggest problem with UBC is that it is controlled by people with agendas. And the elected governments will make laws that better one group over another, Out west in BC the union is done. They have about 15% of the market. I have been a member of 2 unions, worked non union and now self employed. A lot of what a company is is based on the overall management of the company. some non union companies treated there employees like slaves forcing overtime or firing guys that won't work 7 days straight. The union here is divided Between the international and a local Canadian union. 

I find overall union companies are better as they have to play by the rules. Then every large company is the same because they are filled with mid level college grads doing the HR, coordinating etc. Here non union has no problem doing billion dollar work.


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## SAcarpenter (Oct 10, 2008)

While i dont know all the facts, i have a good friend in the Milwaukee union. I know that right now its feast or famine for them, even more so than it is for us. Around here there aren't too many sizable non union outfits so the commercial work goes to union contractors mostly. Recently there was a change that took place to allow companies to lower their bids to get more work. Basically it says that any carpenter erecting a wood frame to be paid 10 bucks an hour less. I know there is more to it but that is the main point. 
So he worked at a company that did a variety of work so the guys forming and pouring made $36, then framers made $26, then siders made $36 all guys journeymen working for the same company just different crews. 
I am a non union residential/ small commercial framer and proud of it. I did actually look at going union a few years ago when my buddy took his journeyman's test. I went with him and took a different version meant for non apprentices who have been in the trades at least five years. When the guy called me back he said i had the highest non union score he had ever seen in his 24 years. Great right? I called seven of the companies i was interested in and none had work. One woman actually laughed at me when i said i was calling regarding employment. 
My point is that union work is hard to come by around here i think. Last year my friend work just over three months, the year before that it was five , and the year before that it was eight. Sure he makes $10 an hr more than me. But what good is that when you aren't working. Last year i cleared 64,000. Thats pretty good for this market id say. Sure i have to work a lot harder for it than he does but I'm just glad to be working. ( and i do work a lot harder than the union guys around here, half of them have told me themselves)


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## WilsonRMDL (Sep 4, 2007)

Here in the Detroit area it all depends on where you get in. I've been non-union and stayed busy just like I do now being union, only difference is the pay. I'm a commercial carpenter doing mainly millwork installation, and I've been with the same company for a long time so ive been lucky.

I know guys however that work only a few months a year because they bounce around between companies.


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## BFD (Jan 31, 2014)

In MA the reason most jobs go union is because they have to. In Boston you have to be Union to get approved for permits. All state jobs have to be union. Some cities/towns require unions. Its not because its cheaper or faster. They do have better injury records, but a lot of them are fabricated. I honestly have no clue how they do it. I was on a job for over a year where they threw parties for *** amount of days without a major injury. Only issue is that we had guys sitting in their office on crutches because they got hurt, but the injury only counts if they lose work. So we were forced to pay them to sit in their office and play on a PSP. I was in the carpenters union for years and finally had enough and left because I was sick of dealing with drug addicts. I was working 100+ feet in the are on swing staging or boom lifts with guys throwing up and shaking as they detoxed because the dealer called in sick that day. I know not all unions and companies are like this, but there are way more than there should be MA because of the laws that give companies jobs when they would never get them in other states.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

BFD said:


> In MA the reason most jobs go union is because they have to. In Boston you have to be Union to get approved for permits. All state jobs have to be union. Some cities/towns require unions. Its not because its cheaper or faster. They do have better injury records, but a lot of them are fabricated. I honestly have no clue how they do it. I was on a job for over a year where they threw parties for *** amount of days without a major injury. Only issue is that we had guys sitting in their office on crutches because they got hurt, but the injury only counts if they lose work. So we were forced to pay them to sit in their office and play on a PSP. I was in the carpenters union for years and finally had enough and left because I was sick of dealing with drug addicts. I was working 100+ feet in the are on swing staging or boom lifts with guys throwing up and shaking as they detoxed because the dealer called in sick that day. I know not all unions and companies are like this, but there are way more than there should be MA because of the laws that give companies jobs when they would never get them in other states.


sounds like they need to instill random drug testing


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## BFD (Jan 31, 2014)

asgoodasdead said:


> sounds like they need to instill random drug testing


They can't, its against contract. They do have testing on the job, but you're told days in advance so guys bring in fake urine, keep it in their underwear, go in the bathroom and dump it in the cup and then come out and have them check the temp and its usually right in the lower portion of the allowable range. If they actually made them do it in front of someone it would be a different story.


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## Localday (Dec 9, 2013)

I worked both and bust my ass wherever I go, best dam outfit I ever worked for was a union outfit. They treated me better than the union required. I've seen some dam good carpenters as well as some slugs in both lines. Currently as I am self employed the union thing don't fit the bill but if I ever went back to work for someone else I would probably inquire with union outfits first. I don't care if u work union or rat you need to do your own saving in my opinion, never trust someone else to do it for ya. The union may be a good place for you to start and take advantage of the resources, just keep in mind they may not be around for ever


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

asgoodasdead said:


> the word "scab" doesn't bother me, cause who cares?


I dont care, especially in Texas. 

But id bend his  jaw if he called me a scab to my face. :thumbsup: You can take that to the bank.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Don't fvck with Texas. 'Merica


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## otislilly (May 30, 2012)

There are few things in life that I am embarrassed of. My time in the union is one of them. Put your brother to work, slow down, wait, a hour to start work and stop a hour early to put the tools in the truck, come back from lunch to work area, then go back to the bathroom. I have actually been told to never use the bathroom on my time, wait for company time. The company I worked for let everyone call in drunk 3 times a year. Not sick, drunk. Couldn't fire lazy people. Actually was allowed to do 3-4 hrs work a day if we were lucky. 10 people to do a 2 man job. LMAO
There are some things that just are not right. Some things cant be overlooked. I have 3 sons, If they came home and told me they were gay, I would disown them. If they came home union, I would break their legs and disown them.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

otislilly said:


> There are few things in life that I am embarrassed of. My time in the union is one of them. Put your brother to work, slow down, wait, a hour to start work and stop a hour early to put the tools in the truck, come back from lunch to work area, then go back to the bathroom. I have actually been told to never use the bathroom on my time, wait for company time. The company I worked for let everyone call in drunk 3 times a year. Not sick, drunk. Couldn't fire lazy people. Actually was allowed to do 3-4 hrs work a day if we were lucky. 10 people to do a 2 man job. LMAO
> There are some things that just are not right. Some things cant be overlooked. I have 3 sons, If they came home and told me they were gay, I would disown them. If they came home union, I would break their legs and disown them.


nothin' like some good ol' fashioned gaybashin'.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

asgoodasdead said:


> nothin' like some good ol' fashioned gaybashin'.


Ya know how I know your lying? Because you all "I used to be union but now I'm not" people tell these horror stories about how little work you did. But in all reality you probably worked twice as hard. The fact is you don't work for the UBC you work for a company that employs union labor. Well these companies still need to make money! The owners still need to support their families! Drunk days??? No we don't even get sick days! I guess when we are pouring walls we just take break huh? Explain to me how the freedom tower was built if union labor is only allowed to work 3-4 hours a day? Maybe that's how things were 20 years ago, but it's not like that now. True story I walked on a non union commercial job today to give a bid because they wanted a union hanging crew. I saw a young kid screwing FRP directly to studs, it was metal framed but obviously from a residential crew. It made me cringe at the wasted time. I politely told him I was not interested. Why did they want a union crew? Because they needed the job done. That was straight from the company owners mouth


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

ubcguy89 said:


> I guess when we are pouring walls we just take break huh?


actually my friend was working with union guys once where a guy poured a bag of thinset into a bucket looked at his watch and goes "time for my break" and walked off without mixing it. and this was earlier this year, not 20 years ago. what poster otislilly describes is exactly what I've seen and always heard about unions around here.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I dont care, especially in Texas.
> 
> But id bend his  jaw if he called me a scab to my face. :thumbsup: You can take that to the bank.


Same here in Florida. I'd love to see Union Guys compete.... Ain't gonna happen. 

As far as jaw bending, it would probably be mine but I'm a bit mouthy at times and have had my jaw bent plenty so we'd have a fun go of it.

One of my clients is a big union GC up north. He told me the pro's and con's, his point was that at least in union you can weed through until you get a good crew put together, down here in some of the most prime real estate in Florida, it still cost less for quality work. He also said the red tape is ridiculous on his end up north. 

Different animals but I'd never join a union and I don't give a rat's azz if you call me a scab, a pimple, a piece of $h!t, or a cold sore, I ain't giving money I worked for to some jackwagon who wants to fund the moron's in DC.

At some point it has to become principal over the almighty dollar.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

thank you. a guy on my crew has a friend who's on a union framing crew so I plan on getting that guy's number as soon as I get past the interview process. other than that, everyone else I know in the union is in other trades. electrical, flooring, landscaping, mason, plumbing, labor. is there anywhere that lists union companies/jobs so I can "knock on doors" like you said?


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

asgoodasdead said:


> thank you. a guy on my crew has a friend who's on a union framing crew so I plan on getting that guy's number as soon as I get past the interview process. other than that, everyone else I know in the union is in other trades. electrical, flooring, landscaping, mason, plumbing, labor. is there anywhere that lists union companies/jobs so I can "knock on doors" like you said?


The hall will have a list.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

asgoodasdead said:


> thank you. a guy on my crew has a friend who's on a union framing crew so I plan on getting that guy's number as soon as I get past the interview process. other than that, everyone else I know in the union is in other trades. electrical, flooring, landscaping, mason, plumbing, labor. is there anywhere that lists union companies/jobs so I can "knock on doors" like you said?


go to your local hall and get the current "job list". it will list all jobs that are active and what stages they are in. if it is a job just starting up, you need to see what subs are doing the framing on it, then call, or go directly to their office. it will take you a little bit to get contacts, but once you have a couple, your set. work hard. look at it as a competition, and not just to get a check. when your on the job shortly, you will know the right people to be around. get to know the crew. try to get with knowledgeable journeyman. if you find that your the knowledgeable one on the site, just do your job without verbally pointing it out to others how knowledgeable you are. :smartass: it will be noticed. who knows, you might end up running crews as an apprentice.:thumbup:
your local can give you a list of contractors specific to your trade. such as framing, millwork, cabinets, doors and hardware....etc. just go in and ask.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

windygorge said:


> look at it as a competition, and not just to get a check.


this is how i've always worked. so that's good to hear. when I told my dad(my boss) I was taking the union test he first tried to give me a raise to keep me, then told me "your bosses will love you, but your coworkers will probably hate you." (his opinion is the stereotypical "union guys are lazy")


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## zabbo (Jan 16, 2014)

Joining the union was definitely the best career move I've ever made. No where else will you get the benefits and pay to be a carpenter like you do in the union


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## Localday (Dec 9, 2013)

I went to upgrade my phone the other day at the AT&T store, they asked if I had a union card and I asked why. Evidently of you show your card you get 15% off your phone bill every month. My monthly dues are $16 and my monthly bill for me and my family is around $190. Even tho I haven't worked union in close to 5 years I still pay my dues just in case.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

found out today I passed the test, but now I'm on a waiting list to get interviewed for apprenticeship which they said could be a few weeks up to a year. 

my question for the union guys is how political is it to get in? around here most people I know got in cause of a friend or family member and then I also always hear stuff about affirmative action. which makes sense since when I took the test the sign in sheet asked race and gender. wondering if i'm screwed being a white male with no connections even though I have knowledge and experience.


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

asgoodasdead said:


> found out today I passed the test, but now I'm on a waiting list to get interviewed for apprenticeship which they said could be a few weeks up to a year. my question for the union guys is how political is it to get in? around here most people I know got in cause of a friend or family member and then I also always hear stuff about affirmative action. which makes sense since when I took the test the sign in sheet asked race and gender. wondering if i'm screwed being a white male with no connections even though I have knowledge and experience.


Ehhhhh, it's hit and miss with that. There are politics involved, to a point. When I got in a guy told me I got in because of him putting in a good word for me. I don't know how true that is because I haven't heard it from anyone else, and I don't even know how he knew I was applying. 

You said you know someone who has a company? It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep him in the loop of what's going on, and maybe he can put a word in for you to help speed the process along. It couldn't hurt. 

I don't think it's as rampant as it allegedly was, but I'm sure it still happens. 

And with that select the gender/race option, I always wonder what would happen if I chose the minority options...


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

I know a guy with a union landscaping company. but he doesn't have a contract with the carpenter's union and just pays us prevailing wage whenever he needs something built. so not sure if he can help, but i'll give him a call. also know another guy with a union company who builds bridges. maybe give him a call too. wish I knew someone directly in the carpenter's union.


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## zabbo (Jan 16, 2014)

I know they changed things around here recently. It doesn't matter who your friend is you still have to go through the whole process


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

zabbo said:


> I know they changed things around here recently. It doesn't matter who your friend is you still have to go through the whole process


i'd rather it be that way. that gives me more leverage since I have experience. instead of someone else who's greener than goose**** getting hired over me cause his friends uncle or whatever.


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

zabbo said:


> I know they changed things around here recently. It doesn't matter who your friend is you still have to go through the whole process


You are correct, the union is evolving because they realized they shot themselves in the foot when they weren't bringing in new people every year, instead, trying to keep the Good Ol' Boys Club alive. 

They won't let you come in as a Journeyman as easily, and they're trying to change their image. But there still is some favoritism.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

asgoodasdead said:


> i'd rather it be that way. that gives me more leverage since I have experience. instead of someone else who's greener than goose**** getting hired over me cause his friends uncle or whatever.


Man you went full circle in a short period of time. Not that Union is all bad but you were hating pretty good. Hope it works out for you.

We feed our families, try and intimidate me from putting dinner on the table and I got a problem, other than that... To each his own.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

never hated on unions, just hate on lazy union workers. which apparently is still pretty rampant around here. just talked to a friend in the flooring local and he said if you show up on time and work hard you'll never get laid off cause it's rare for someone to do both. he works nonstop and gets a ton of overtime cause he's not a ****head. said the journeyman rate for carpenters in nj is $42/hr which is way higher than I thought it was.


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## BFD (Jan 31, 2014)

asgoodasdead said:


> never hated on unions, just hate on lazy union workers. which apparently is still pretty rampant around here. just talked to a friend in the flooring local and he said if you show up on time and work hard you'll never get laid off cause it's rare for someone to do both. he works nonstop and gets a ton of overtime cause he's not a ****head. said the journeyman rate for carpenters in nj is $42/hr which is way higher than I thought it was.


My uncle used to be a floor layer in NJ. Not sure if he's in prison or working right now, he goes back and forth quite frequently for getting caught with drugs. I would love if that all it took around here, I probably never would have left my union if I could have found a company that didn't suck to work for


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

asgoodasdead said:


> never hated on unions, just hate on lazy union workers. which apparently is still pretty rampant around here. just talked to a friend in the flooring local and he said if you show up on time and work hard you'll never get laid off cause it's rare for someone to do both. he works nonstop and gets a ton of overtime cause he's not a ****head. said the journeyman rate for carpenters in nj is $42/hr which is way higher than I thought it was.


Lazy bums are in every facet of employment from custodians to tech support, I think your rule above applies to most anyone who is willing to work to get ahead, especially nowadays. Just keep your integrity and here's to you making a nice bank roll and not forgetting your roots on the independent side of things.

Congrats on the test by the way!


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## zabbo (Jan 16, 2014)

The big mouthed know it all's and the lazy bums are the ones constantly getting laid off. Trust me I have seen really good guys laid off too but most of the time it was because lack of work. It makes me mad though when you see the same loud mouthed looser at every job because he is always got his had up the BA's butt. But you'll learn to get over that. You can't beat the annuity, I'm 26 and have over 50k in it now


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## Localday (Dec 9, 2013)

I worked for a pretty good union outfit that overmanned a bunch of their small jobs when it was slow cause they new if they laid us off we'd be on another job in a day or two.


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## mastersplinter (Nov 23, 2012)

Make sure you brush up on your intimidation tactics. Oh and also learn how to pull cowardly bull**** like slashing tires, killing peoples dogs, arson, stalking peoples girlfriends or pregnant wife, etc. And also make sure you act really tough when all of your buddies are around, but ***** up when confronted 1 on 1, or with a gun. You will do just fine.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

mastersplinter said:


> Make sure you brush up on your intimidation tactics. Oh and also learn how to pull cowardly bull**** like slashing tires, killing peoples dogs, arson, stalking peoples girlfriends or pregnant wife, etc. And also make sure you act really tough when all of your buddies are around, but ***** up when confronted 1 on 1, or with a gun. You will do just fine.


I don't even wanna know what the hell you're talking about. good luck with whatever issues you're dealing with.


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## mastersplinter (Nov 23, 2012)

asgoodasdead said:


> I don't even wanna know what the hell you're talking about. good luck with whatever issues you're dealing with.


http://www.phillybully.com/PhillyBully.com/Home.html

Theres much more if you would like to know what I am talking about.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

considering it's philly, i'm not surprised in the least. good thing I don't live in philly or even Pennsylvania.


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## BFD (Jan 31, 2014)

Can't say I am shocked. In Boston if one union steps on another unions foot or if part of a project goes non-union, you need security on site 24hrs a day. A non-union roofing company was on a site years ago and the first day had a crane bring everything on the roof, first load of materials, all their job cabinets, etc. They got there the next day and everything was in the harbor. Another job the laborers insisted that they owned work some of the machine operators were doing with their own clean up and a week later 3 of their machines were dead with sugar in the tanks. There will always be scum bags, not much you can do about it


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

my dad was brought on to "scab" on a union job once back in the 80s and a union guy "accidentally" ran his leg over with a forklift. luckily the ground was soft so he was only on crutches for 2 weeks or so.


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## amaro1 (Oct 3, 2015)

*oregon carpenters union*

Question, after getting ranked a 97, how long will it generally take to move to out of work list and get to work? I am in Oregon, any and all info would be appreciated.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

that depends on 100 variables.


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## BFD (Jan 31, 2014)

Yea, there is zero way to be able to answer that unless someone from your specific local with knowledge of what is happening is in here and I doubt that will be the case. Your best bet is asking your Business Manager what his best guess is


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

Well, asgood

im assuming your in the union by now since its been a year. is it everything you thought it would be? better or worst?


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

yes, this week I become a 2nd year apprentice. it's the best move I've ever made. I've been working as an in-house carpenter at a hospital for the past 6 months and I've learned more in 6 months than I did in 5 years working residential. first 6 months in the union I spent 4 months on an EMS building framing the exterior walls on the top floor and putting on the truss roof then framing and sheetrocking the inside and 2 months doing furniture.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

sounds like a good gig. im happy for you my man. keep it up:thumbup:


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

amaro1, are you working anywhere? you don't need to get on job list. go out and look for work like any other job.


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## 1 NAILDRIVER (Nov 22, 2015)

windygorge said:


> amaro1, are you working anywhere? you don't need to get on job list. go out and look for work like any other job.


 
Is that way everywhere now ? 

St. Louis District council took over our area about 2000-2001 and since then we have had the ability to pursue our own work but before that we had to be sent out of the Hall . 

I had always assumed that most areas were still referred by the Hall . 

Carpenters and Cement Finishers are the only 2 trades around here that are allowed to pursue their own work .


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

yea, you can look for work. i think we are the only union allowed to look outside the hall. thats the way it should be. most of those at the hall, are either new and don't know who to call, or they are lazy, and don't want to work and have to sign up to the hall to collect unemployment. at least thats my two cents


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

windygorge said:


> yea, you can look for work. i think we are the only union allowed to look outside the hall. thats the way it should be. most of those at the hall, are either new and don't know who to call, or they are lazy, and don't want to work and have to sign up to the hall to collect unemployment. at least thats my two cents


eh, it depends. every meeting they say there's 200-300 journeymen out of work(out of 4,000 local members) and i've been told by business agents its the same 200-300 guys every month cause they're terrible carpenters or terrible workers or they simply don't want to work and work just enough for unemployment. BUT there's some hall guys who are very good workers and carpenters and they've simply just not stuck with a company long term for whatever reason. 

i'm very lucky that i was sent to the job i've been at for almost a year now from the hall. and it was a perfect timing situation. i got laid off on a friday when the furniture job i was on ended and got a call from a company i had solicited myself to saying they were gonna call me monday and put me to work Tuesday. i didn't take their word for it(something i was taught by journeymen) and texted my agent that i was out of work anyway as a backup plan. on monday(while i was working residential) that company never called, but my agent did with an overnight job for that night so i took it. worked overnight and he called me again the next day saying that he had another job lined up for me and the foreman would be calling me. i went back the following day for a day shift at the overnight job and they said they were gonna keep me busy til friday. while i was there the foreman from the hospital called and said he wanted me to come in the next day. i told the foreman at the job i was at that today was my last day cause i got a long term job. started the next day at the hospital and the company that was supposed to call me on monday finally called and said they lined something up for me. i explained to them that since they never called me monday like they promised, they snoozed and lost me to someone else. been at the hospital for a year now and i still get calls from that company to see if i'm still working plus my agent checks in on me all the time and there's a lot of other people i've met through meetings and volunteer work who i can call if i'm ever laid off for another job. but you bet your ass i'll also put my name on the list since you can never have too many options and never take anyone's word for more than just that.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

my point to that long-winded story was that there's a lot of good carpenters/workers who are still working out of the hall because they took someone's word as gold and sat around waiting for a call that never came instead of taking a job that came in cause they thought what they had lined up was better or whatever. i don't know how many times i've heard from guys saying "well i got a call but the job was only for a few days and i'm waiting for something long term to come through" and other guys saying "i once took a job that was supposed to be for 1 day and it turned into 14 years".

you never know, so just cast as many lines out there as you can and take whatever comes your way.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

i agree with that also. i know the companies i have worked with definitely have certain guys they try and make permanent. when times get slow, and they can't help but lay off, they know the person will most likely get with another company. case in point, i worked for a company from 2006 to 2012 and it got slow so they layed me off. i go with another compay and have been with them ever since. the other company calls just to see where i am and if im available or hear through other carpenter what im doing. 
my advice to you is to get with a few companies in your career. you will never be without work. i have 4 companies i can call at any given day and get hired. I am blessed for sure.


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## 1 NAILDRIVER (Nov 22, 2015)

windygorge said:


> yea, you can look for work. i think we are the only union allowed to look outside the hall. thats the way it should be. most of those at the hall, are either new and don't know who to call, or they are lazy, and don't want to work and have to sign up to the hall to collect unemployment. at least thats my two cents


 I agree with you that we should be able to solicit our own work and was glad to see it happen here ! 

The people it hurt were the Hall sucks that hung around kissing the BA's ass trying to get on all the good/long term projects .

It is not unusual for there to be men that are good hands on our out of work list though . A lot of different situations can cause that .


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