# Plaster Estimate and other contractors



## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Last night I had to take my proposal to a customer for a plaster repair, Her living room ceiling is coming down, theres a section that is 25'x 28' that has to come down and there is also 26' of Crown Cornice Moulding that has to be recast, I took my bid to her and we went over it. she tells me that my price $9,275.00 was on the high side, she tells me she had two other contractors bid the job. she says their price was way less. Now I figure this job to take around three weeks and this house was built in 1917 it's in a part of Detroit called Indian Village very large Historical Mansions, Now this is what I love about these so called plaster contractors, which are really drywall guys doing plaster:laughing: they tell her that the Crown can be patched:w00t: there was so much water coming through this ceiling and crown it has all delaminated and the paint is holding some of it together. I was going to remove 26' of crown and then cast new 6' pieces. she even said from what I was saying made more sence to her, then she asks me if I will be there doing the work. I told her yes, where the other two guys wanted to send their crews in:whistling. So I sat down and rewrote the bid to $6,500 so I hope this is more to her liking. But in this market everyone is bidding on anything and everything. I'm just glad I stick to what I know. That's the problem with some of these Jack of all Trades or is that Jackoffs of all Trades.

www.frankawitz.net


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

So you dropped your price by almost 1/3 without a reduction is scope? Now she's going to think you were trying to rape her with the first price. I know the economy sucks, but that's a bad idea. If you could do the job for $6,500, you should have bid $6,500 in the first place- maybe bid it at $7,000 and be able to knock $500 off, but now you look like you were being a pig. Sorry to be so blunt, but that only reinforces the image of being con artists that contractors have.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

He had no choice he is Detroit


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

rbsremodeling said:


> He had no choice he is Detroit


 I agree. Things are tough in this part of the country. I am doing some work for a HO restoring an old victorian. Each phase of the job they get a s***load of bids. Rather than one contractor to handle it all.

I recently gave them a bid for a three car garage. Their eyes just about bulged out of their head when they saw my price. They said it was the highest bid yet. I know for a fact I was 2k lower than the bid before me.

He is a realtor/flipper she is a professor that thinks she is better than everyone. If I came down 4k on the garage (which I won't do). They would look at it like they were getting something for nothing rather than somebody was trying to rip them off.

The crew will be finishing up the roof on Monday and we all can't wait to get away from there. I have done a few phases of the job after being beat down. Cause they want our quality (int. trim ect.). Other stuff they give to hacks and lowballers. They suck out loud..............


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Bob,
I rewrote the scope of work, I talked with her yesterday, she told me the bids for the other two companys, now get this, what I originaly bid as the work that needs to be done these CLOWNS are going to do all this work in 3 days, I had figured it for three weeks, cause you have to let the plaster Crown cure and the Cornice also has to cure. one of the CLOWNS said he can patch the Crown and Cornice. I am going down there this morning to demo the ceiling that is hanging down off the lath. I'll post some pictures later on today if I get a chance. now here's what these guys bid Remove and replace a section of ceiling 24'x 25' and 20' of Crown Cornice Moulding patched $3,705.00 the other one 24'x 28' and 24' of the Crown his price $3,600.00:w00t: Now my material cost would be around $1875.00 also they said three days, it will take two full days to set up and demo and remove all the tear out. So I think what shes doing is trying to get me to do the job for less. cause when she said they could do the job in 3 days:w00t: WTF!! Theres no way just cause of the dry time on the plaster mouldings, the only way they could pull this off is if they had the mouldings sitting on a shelf.
So I took and subtracted things like covering the whole living room floor 40'x 30' with OSB, covering all the walls with plastic drops, installing 5/8 sheetrock instead of putting up wood lath and metal lath. So I have changed a few things. But after today we shall see how this goes, 

www.frankawitz.net


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

I agree with Bob, even in Detroit and especially in a 1917 home. If the historic society gets involved (which is very possible if not likely) they could easily cost you the 3k you dropped. Maybe changing the scope to drywall will help but you will still have to cast the crown molding. The floor still has to be covered. Plaster vs drywall would be some savings but I'm not sure it would be that much or if the ho is aware that it will look different.

Did those prices include painting the plaster?

Plaster isn't cured enough to paint in 3 days and 3 weeks would still be questionable.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Ok well heres how it's going to work out, I started it yesterday I took out all the water damaged plaster. With the HomeOwner she said they save up money for repairs that need to be done, so I charged her for just taking out the ceiling, then we talked and after I told her that I can take out the wood lath and furing strips, then install new furing and then 5/8s board then two coats plaster, so this I'm going to charge her $1,800 this way the ceiling is done. Then they are going on vacation for a week, then when they come back I will work on crown and run that in place, then I will cast the cornice then once it drys I will install the cornice to the crown, after the repairs get one coat of primer. then if she wants me to paint I will. I have some pictures check them out.


www.frankawitz.net


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

DavidNTX said:


> I agree with Bob, even in Detroit and especially in a 1917 home. If the historic society gets involved (which is very possible if not likely) they could easily cost you the 3k you dropped. Maybe changing the scope to drywall will help but you will still have to cast the crown molding.
> 
> Around here if the historical society was involved you would never get away with putting up drywall.:no:


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well the Homeowner has no problem with sheetrock then plaster over it. The Homeowner has already had other rooms repaired by other guys this way. But anyways I have the job so I will post pictures as the job moves on.

www.frankawitz.net


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

You guys realize he is in Detroit right? 

They sold the Historical board about 5 or 6 years ago?


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I took out 2/3s of the ceiling down, wood lath and furing strips, lost a lot of the top edge of the crown moulding, I also cut out the water damage crown and cornice moulding. As for the Historical Soceity there are houses on this street that are sitting empty with the grass 3' deep. Yeah Detroit aint worried about History, when Kwame was Mayor he had ordered over 176 Historical buildings and houses be leveled. the Book Hotel sits at the end of the block, nothing being done, just boarded up, to try and keep the scrapers out of the buildings:sad:


www.frankawitz.net


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well Monday I get to go back in and start putting this ceiling back together, I went last Saturday and did the last of the clean up.
In these pictures you can see how the furing was pulling out of the ceiling joist, so I removed all the plaster and rock lath off the wood lath, then took the wood lath off the furing then took the furing down. Now I will refur the ceiling so I can hang my 5/8s.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Heres a better picture of the Crown Cornice Moulding, these guys said they could fix this without removing any of it:whistling Now I know there are a couple other guys on here that work with this type of Plaster everyday, Do any of you guys think this could have been patched or should it be removed and all new put back?


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Here's what the ceiling looked like close up, water damage was going on for years, Plumbers replaced values and wax ring with flange, this helped some but the tub shower was the problem. if they would have opened up the ceiling back(1950' or 60's) when they took the plaster off the wood lath and put up rock lath. they wouldn't have had all this damage. This kinda reminds me of when you hear some tell people "Oh just cover it up with drywall:w00t:"
But I would say that the bathroom above this Living room doesn't get fixed correctly they will do this at some time again.:blink:


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

*Nice*

Please keep the pictures coming. 

Why didn't the gut and replace the plumbing above the ceiling while the plaster was down? Did I miss something?


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## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

Frank,
I really like the abundance of pics.

Were the others seriously considering patching the area you mentioned? From the looks of it, I wouldn't even consider anything but removing that area clean.
I know you used gypsum lath to save the customer money, but it is a shame since it is inferior; wood lath remains the best with metal lath a strong second, IMO.


Roger


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Roger,
The way this job is going it was all about the costs, I bid the job at first to replace all the wood lath with metal ribbed lath, but I was 3 times higher then the other two contractors, so I ended up going with 5/8s board then I'll basecoat and skim coat, but my costs are still going to be up there cause of all the damage to the Crowns top steps. when I pulled the ceiling down the last time this ceiling was repaired they pulled all the plaster off the lath and then installed rock lath over the wood then two coated it, As for the water leak they thought that it was fixed well I told them that we still had water dripping, she told me they had taken showers before I got there, well I took out the sub floor that hold the mortar back from the ceiling, then I took out the old mortar and there it was a section of pipe rusted and dripping, so now I have to wait and see how much of the plumbing is going to be removed, this same pipe is leaking in the next rooms ceiling, the pipes are all galvinized rusted pipes, been there since 1917:w00t: I have some more pictures of how much I got done.


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## tekwrytr (Sep 11, 2007)

Bob Kovacs said:


> So you dropped your price by almost 1/3 without a reduction is scope? Now she's going to think you were trying to rape her with the first price. I know the economy sucks, but that's a bad idea. If you could do the job for $6,500, you should have bid $6,500 in the first place- maybe bid it at $7,000 and be able to knock $500 off, but now you look like you were being a pig. Sorry to be so blunt, but that only reinforces the image of being con artists that contractors have.


:clap:That is one of the most intelligent postings I have ever seen. It is also the reason the $3.50 a sheet drywall hanging exists, because it reinforces the idea that most contractors are ripoffs, and price cheap work at premium prices. 

The bottom line is just as Bob Kovacs said above: If you could do the job for $6,500, you should have bid $6,500 in the first place. If you didn't, the bottom line is that you are pricing according to what you think you can get, rather than what the job takes to do. Bad, bad business in the long term. Any time you cut your price, you look like a cheat, whether you are reacting to lowballers or just sharpening your pencil.
Thanks


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks for the updates. It's fun to watch this kind of work. 
So very far from my own skills. 
MIKE


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

tekwrytr said:


> :clap:That is one of the most intelligent postings I have ever seen. It is also the reason the $3.50 a sheet drywall hanging exists, because it reinforces the idea that most contractors are ripoffs, and price cheap work at premium prices.
> 
> The bottom line is just as Bob Kovacs said above: If you could do the job for $6,500, you should have bid $6,500 in the first place. If you didn't, the bottom line is that you are pricing according to what you think you can get, rather than what the job takes to do. Bad, bad business in the long term. Any time you cut your price, you look like a cheat, whether you are reacting to lowballers or just sharpening your pencil.
> Thanks


Dude, he changed the scope of his work. You need to listen to the conversation before voicing an opinion.


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

Frankawitz said:


> Roger,
> The way this job is going it was all about the costs, I bid the job at first to replace all the wood lath with metal ribbed lath, but I was 3 times higher then the other two contractors, so I ended up going with 5/8s board then I'll basecoat and skim coat, but my costs are still going to be up there cause of all the damage to the Crowns top steps. when I pulled the ceiling down the last time this ceiling was repaired they pulled all the plaster off the lath and then installed rock lath over the wood then two coated it, As for the water leak they thought that it was fixed well I told them that we still had water dripping, she told me they had taken showers before I got there, well I took out the sub floor that hold the mortar back from the ceiling, then I took out the old mortar and there it was a section of pipe rusted and dripping, so now I have to wait and see how much of the plumbing is going to be removed, this same pipe is leaking in the next rooms ceiling, the pipes are all galvinized rusted pipes, been there since 1917:w00t: I have some more pictures of how much I got done.


Hey Frank,
I hope you don't get any call backs for this project.
I seem to remember a while back you writing that , and I am paraphrasing here, This method is amaturish and hack like and the problem with wannabe plasterers.
Just sayin.

I new I was right then..............................................
Mike


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well as this job moves on the Plumber came out the other day, I had to go in and cut out a section in the other room so the plumber could see how much pipe he was going replace, well he only needs to run one section of pipe:thumbsup: Now I have more work with the other ceiling, but to get back to a few of you guys who think I am not a Professional Plasterer, when you have to bid jobs like these over some Handyman company who does plumbing, fixes windows and sreens and they come in witha price of $3,500 and they say they can have it all done in three days. so tell me how is it that I am not a Professional? cause I lower my price and changed the work scope to help the HomeOwner out so they can have their house back, or should I have told her "Listen lady that's my price and if you don't like F*** YOU":thumbsup:
Or should I have told her well listen I will see what I can do to lower the price so we can get this ceiling repaired for you! according to you being the PROFESSIONAL that you are, I should have walked? instead of lowing my price, but heres another thing, when I changed the scope of work I was able to do it for less cause I cut the labor and materials so I managed to bring the price down where the HomeOwner could afford to have the work done.
But I guess I'm just one of those HACKS you talked about huh? Mr. Professional


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

*Thanks for the post*

I really have enjoyed the pictures and seeing your work.

Please don't let a few know nothing know it alls get under your skin.

Negotiating and adjusting a proposal is a fine art that some on this site do not understand and probably never will.


I admire your work--and the fact that you HAVE work speaks for it self.


Please keep the pictures coming.


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## fr8train (Jul 17, 2007)

I agree with the previous poster, and will add that the fact that you changed your scope to lower your price, but were still more expensive than the other two bids and still got the job speaks volumes to either your skills as a plasterer and/or your skills as a businessman. 

I wish I knew the art of plastering, no one that I know of around here does it. It is a shame too. When we did the demo portion of my house remodel I hated to tear down the plaster, all the hard work those guys did 103+ years ago, poof. But because of poor maintenance by previous owners, it had to come down.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

fr8train,
Sorry to hear that, I have seen that a lot people talk to some guy who says he knows how to do something like plaster and then turns around and rips all the plaster out and stick up drywall tapes and muds and calls it plastering So I have a hard time with these type of guys. If I do work in another field I do it just like it should be done, I don't cut corners, if anything I usually over build according to my friend who's a rough carpenter, when we worked on my house and we had to frame in some walls, he told me "Dude you don't need to put metal wind braces in when your using OSB", well I did it anyways, he just shook his head and said "your something else" But like I told him when I do my plaster work I tell people it should last over a 100 years.:thumbsup: That's how I was taught build it to last.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well the plumbers finished up with the new pipes sp I closed up the ceiling and now I have to put in metal lath for the Crown and I'll start base coating and skim coating today, here's the latest pictures.


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## Vermaraj (Mar 6, 2007)

Nice work. Hand troweled plaster is a lost art here in NYC. So many stunning built up mouldings get torn out at replaced with L3 drywall. 

How are you going to rebuild the moulding?


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

*Thank fir the update!*

Fun to watch.

Please keep us tuned in.

MIKE


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I started mudding everything in today. when I got there this morning I start setting up and I find a water spot on the blue trap:whistling I tell the home owner and she calls the plumbers. the plumber has no idea where the water is coming from:shutup: I just kept working :whistling well after they left I asked her what did they say, she said they think it's the tile, so I took a look at it I pulled the caulk out of the corner of the tub and took my 5 in 1 and push the blade right in the wall:whistling I said theres the problem:thumbsup:

downstairs I filled in the gaps around the room, I got the Crown base coated so now I will base coat the rest of the ceiling, then come back and work the top two steps of the Crown.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Heres were I finished up the home owner had to leave so I got 6 hours in.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well heres how its going so far


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

Great pictures!! Always like seeing pictures!


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I got 3/4 of the ceiling skim coated, I still have a little work on the Crown above the fireplace, The Home Owner was saying yesterday that I need to get her a price on doing the rest of the Crown, which this will be around $3,500 so even tho I didn't get the full price I originaly quoted, I will end up with making $6,600.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Interesting, you work hard for your money!

Great pictures.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Mike, I take my time and it's not at all hard, I have worked on this ceiling now for three weeks, I don't have a helper I work by myself. But I hope to finish up today on the ceiling and Crown I repaired, then I'll come back in a few weeks and start the Crown Cornice Moulding.
The last picture is of a sun rise I watched yesterday morning. looks like it's on fire


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## DRC (Dec 4, 2008)

Frankawitz,

You have some crazy mad skills. Thanks for the pictures.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I got the ceiling done I sanded it out and then primed it, I was starting to spackle it and of course I run out of spackling, so I have to go back in the morning and finish up spoting out the ceiling and crown, then I have a estimate at 2:00 and then I'm suppost to start another job Monday. I can't complain work is coming in.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well went back in yesterday to finish up spackling the ceiling so now it's ready for paint, I gave her the price for the Crown Cornice moulding she told me she would need to save up so she can pay me, but I'm going back in on the 12th of September to do that work.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I will be going back on the 12th to start working on the Crown more pictures will be posted. now I'm working on a three bedroom house, had plaster repair in Living room.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Heres some more pictures I like the last one a Painter or Handyman used clothes line to fill the crack in the cove:thumbsup:
Then below the picture moulding they had more rope down to the mantel:whistling


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## MeatBallDryWall (Aug 28, 2008)

Nice work Mr Frank! I wish I had the opportunity to learn plaster work. I have a question about that drywall lift you used. Isn't that made by biljax? I have a telepro & never used a biljax. The telepro's casters WILL NOT roll over anything & the damn cable gets bound up, etc. How does that one work? Is the lift easier or smoother compared to the telepro? How about stability with 4 legs/casters? Keep up the good work!! :thumbsup:

Hope everyone has a great Labor Day! arty:


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Thanks,
Yeah that's a Biljax I have had it for about 12 years now, It has paid for its self many times over. I haven't used any other lifts, but this one is smooth when it's lifting and the casters do get hung up on drops well I should say the brakes on the wheels get hung up, but this was a great buy at $625.00 I hang 5/8's board all the time with it, the lift is heavy but it works great. the ceiling in the pictures is 9' 6" the thing I like is even when I have ceilings with 14' heights I have set it on my Bakker to make up the height up with the four legs it rests just right so it's stabil. it's just a ***** getting it on the Bakker. I like it cause it's one of my best workers doesn't talk and never complains:laughing:


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## MeatBallDryWall (Aug 28, 2008)

> I like it cause it's one of my best workers doesn't talk and never complains:laughing:


A-MEN to that! lol Does it use a cable system for lift as well?


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

yeah, it has a cable thats run inside the mast then it comes up over a wheel and then down to the hand crank, works real smooth, it was worth the money believe me:thumbsup:


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well went back today I set up the bakker and dropped the room out I have to make the profile of the crown then I'll make my knife. the thing that sucks is I can only work on Saturdays and Sundays:clap:
I aint complaining I am thankful to have the work coming in. here's some pictures.


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## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

Frank,
Some questions:
1) It appears that the original construction was wood lath for walls/ceiling with bracketed metal lath for coring out the cornice. Is that correct?
2) I was curious what you use for your horse. Do you use marine ply? Galvanized or zinc for the blade?
Nice job of documenting the job for us.
Roger


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Roger yeah it was wood lath and ribbed metal lath, I am using wire mesh doubled up, I ran it under the edge of thr sheet rock, the framing in the room is so off. I put a lazer level on the crown and it's all right, As for the horse I have used Galvanized, works ok I file the edges up so the mud follows off the back edge. I put the Peel Away on a section of the cornice so I can get a good mold for the casting. I wont be going back intil next Saturday so the paint should all come off. Have you ever used the Peel Away for repairs? I took some more photo's


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## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

Peel Away 1 (the alkali based one, if I recall) works ok. Peel Away 7 is a bucket of crap. Just make sure you neutralize. 
Are you able to get it off cleanly? I find that it sometimes leaves a mess. I usually go for methylene chloride or multi-strip, but I have not had to strip detailed plaster ornament as you have.
Here is nice article on the subject. I cannot post the link because the forum won't let me.
.scribd.com/doc/11541416/Cleaning-Decorating-Decorative-Plaster

put www in front of it.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Roger, I use the 7 and have had good results with it, I had picture on my site of a job I did 1924 house 5200 sqft, had cornice in a dining room water damage from flat roof drain, trashed it, I used the 7 and then I used TSP and clean water the plaster was clean, then I sprayed it with a releasing agent that I used with the rubber mold, it silacone and I seal that with BM Freshstart primer.
I figure by the time I go back down the paint should be falling off, I have used the Peel Away on a few jobs and I know it will remove paint from anything, I like it better then other strippers I have used, and then theres the good old heat gun:furious: Oh the paint fumes
But I also found that if you use 3M plastic masking paper, it keeps the Peel Away wet and it break the paints down.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Very interesting----------going to have to google peal away-----------------thanks


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## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

Frank,
Interesting tip about the 3M paper. I found that the peel away 7 seemed to dry/suction out before it did anything. I was mainly using it on brick, which is tough anyway. You are right, though, the key is keeping it wet. The supplied paper is not the greatest. I will definitely try some 3m paper.
Thank you,
Roger


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## jmr (Apr 14, 2009)

jesus christ that looks like a nightmare.. props


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

jmr, really it's not that bad.
Roger 
The way I came across using the 3M paper is I ran out of the supplied paper which I agree doesn't keep the Peel Away wet, I had some in a bucket and I was stripping paint off a garage door, it worked better so I have two rolls of it, so I have plenty.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I went back yesterday and removed the Peel Away, It was starting to dry out but I got 98% of the paint off the moulding, Now as soon as the supplys get here I'll seal it and the apply the rubber mold. well here some pictures.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Now here's a close up of the moulding


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Now I'm gonna show you another room in the same house. I have to say this has to be one of the worst water damage I have seen, this is what happens when you have a roof leak and you don't make repairs. I know when it comes time to repair this I know the wood framing will be questionable:whistling
But it looks like something out of a cave.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Oh and here's another picture of someones take on how to repair a ceiling


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## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

That old cornice is pretty sharp. What nice detail. I still wonder why such things have fallen so completely out favor today (I know costs are big factor, but one would think somebody would want quality).


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I hear what your saying, I put a 9" plaster crown with a small 3" cornice moulding in one of my bedrooms, If I ever finish this place of mine all rooms will have some type of plaster crown with cornice, cornice, medillions. I have two plaster colums in the arch of my foyer their 5', as for the cost, yeah, I charge for doing this type of work, just because at times it's so teetest strippin the paint, I spent 5 hours picking and then washed it down.
I was going to move out to Las Vegas a few years back, I figured the way they were building out there, I might hook up with a builder do some custom plaster work out there, but I couldn't get any money together to make the move. But with doing repairs I get these jobs once every couple of years. I would like to do more but hey. Some people will leave water damage for years and not have it fixed, I did a house and these people had water damage and I mean water coming in every time it rained or snowed,
For 18 years they lived like that:w00t: there were 6 rooms out of 9 in the house with damage:whistling
I have so many pictures of all the repairs I've done I could do a book just in pictures.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I picked up the rubber mold from distributor so this Saturday I'll make my mold for casting.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I the last two days I have been working on the knife part of the crown and I got it finished up so now I can go to the job site and get this crown cornice moulding back together. here's some pictures of making the knife.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I use 25 gauge sheet metal from old furances, I then cut it down to size then draw the profile on the sheet then cut it out with tin snips then I file it by hand each time fitting it to the piece of crown, then I will mount the sheet to a piece of 1x12 and I cut the profile in the wood.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Today I have to build a wall ceiling mock up so I can run the crown part of the moulding, this way I know I am set to finish the repair.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I did it, I had to build a mock up of the ceiling and wall so I could run the crown. I got the crown knife made and ran a bench crown of the moulding I called the home owner and told her I was ready to go after the first of the year, she asked if there was going to be any dust
I told her yes I have to finish up the ceiling and wall so I can run the crown. she told me she would have to move furniture:sad: oh well here's some pictures, I made some video of this crown.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

here's the crown I also cut the cornice piece I had to see how it fit.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Ok, here we are, I call the customer to tell her I have the knife made to do the crown moulding and I have cast the cornice mouldings, I tell her I will be there Monday morning 1/4/2010. she tells me "Oh no I go back to work you'll have to come the Monday after Christmas12/28/2009:w00t:
I tell her with what work that has to be done yet it will take two weeks. then she asks if there will be any dust well yeah! I have wallpaper to remove and replace then prime and paint, cause it's grass cloth, I also have to finish the wall and ceiling where the crown is:blink: I don't understand some people you guys have any ideas:shutup:


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## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

Frank,
The results look good.
Do you normally run your molds left to right? (I assume you are right handed). Also, what plaster mix do you use to run your cornice?
I wish I had some advice for you on dealing with your nutcase homeowners.


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## MeatBallDryWall (Aug 28, 2008)

Nice looking work Mr Frank. 



> I don't understand some people you guys have any ideas


I do! It's just that most of the general population are Phucking Stupid. Here's a lil quote I always say over & over to myself so I don't explode on customers.

"Expect Nothing & You Will Never Be Disappointed"

:thumbsup:

Keep up the good work BTW. 
*
*


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Roger 
Yeah on this job I figured running it right to left, I do both but this one the way I'll have my bakker and ladders set up going left to right is easier. as for the plaster I'm using Moulding Plaster 50 lbs bags. The customer is unreal with getting this done, I told her I was out of money on her project and intil I got some money I couldn't finish, she tells me "Oh" she doesn't want me alone in her house:shifty:, which cracks me up I have been alone in other customers houses with no problem, but being they are black and I'm white I guess they don't trust me.:blink: I have been in this line of work now coming up on 30 years and in Business for 25 years and she don't want me in her house. I guess I can't be trusted, so now this has been put on hold intil summer break she's a Teacher in Detroit Public Schools if that tells you anything. talk about a group that can't be trusted.:laughing:
So I'm bidding on a Fire job, for one of my customers, and the thing is these folks are having me bid this job cause they TRUST ME!:w00t: but then again they are white, So I really don't care if I finish or not at this point, I told her that I have to be able to work the job between 9:00 am til 5:00 pm Monday thru Friday, she says "Oh no I can't do that I have to work then":no: Un*****in Real I might just tell her I'll sell her the Cornice mouldings I made and be done with it. she still owes me $1,500 plus I have to finish the ceiling, wallpaper and paint. which I have not given her a price on yet. But I think she'll have one of her Homeboyz finish after I got the mouldings in. So that's were I'm at on this. 
Thanks:thumbsup:


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Owes you 1500 and put the project off until summer?
I wish you luck.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Man, I know times are tough, but I'd have walked a long time ago. 

I do this work for a living, and have just as much right as anyone else to do it during normal hours, weekdays. The only exceptions I make are for emergencies, or a place of business that just can't have work going on with customers present.

I just hope you're making enough off this job to make all the inconvenience worthwhile.


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## dogris (Aug 9, 2007)

Talk about some freaking BS!!!
A craftsman who is obviously busting hump doing a ceiling with plaster moulding that most others would be unable to tackle, being treated like a dog! 
Makes me mad! I feel for you, Mr. Frank.

I appreciate this thread! Thank you for taking us along for this little journey into your world.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Yeah, talk about a PITA, well this job has been. as for money I am breaking even right now. I told the HO that it would take two weeks to finish. well she doesn't want me in her house unless she's there or one of her family
I guess they must have Millions of dollars laying around so they don't trust me.:laughing: the funny thing is their furniture is like from the 1970's right out of a Super Fly movie:laughing:
Last summer she had her brother in law paint their deck, this guy and his buds painted the deck never power washed it, painted over peeling paint and rotten wood:laughing::no: next to their garage theres a pile of junk 12' high, theres cut tree lims, bushes in a pile in the front yard, the paint on the house is peeling off in sheets, oh and the brother in law did that painting also two years ago. I think she needs to get away from the brother in law doing work for her, but he's cheap. the funny thing about him is he's 5'6" and weights around 300 lbs now picture that on a 28' ladder painting the outside of a three story house:blink:


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

If it were me, all work would come to a complete halt till I was paid in full, and then RUN like the wind. From the way you have described the property, it sounds like a disaster and if she does not trust you enough to work there when nobody is home, all the more reason to run. What the hell are you going to steal that is so valuable? It sounds to me like the most valuable part of the home is the crown you are trying to put up and maybe the grass cloth you are trying to remove.:w00t:


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## notillegal (Jun 14, 2006)

Love the pics Frank What you have done looks amazing, but I agree with the above poster.. RUN FRANK RUN !!!!!


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well with the way things are going I may not go back and finish if I don't get some work soon. this is the 9th week now with no money coming in, the fire job I was bidding on has come to a stand still. with no response from the customer I can't catch a break, there are no calls coming in, this just sucks. As for being paid up front that aint gonna happen, I already told her I needed more materials to finish the install of the crown cornice, she didn't say a word.:blink: So if you guys don't see me on here well you know I'm out on the streets living under a freeway over pass:thumbsup:


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## deyodrywall (Jan 16, 2010)

I am glad to see there are guys that still care about what they do. I don't take jobs like this because there are too many rip off contractors bidding too low. I don't do any repair work, and I wish I did because that is great cash flow work and very personable when your are done and the cusome is happy seeing the finished product. Also, not to beat a dead horse, but I agree with the other guys that you always give your best price and be very specific about the scope. It is so tough out there today and always make sure the homeowner is comparing the scope properly.


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## stevelind7 (May 19, 2009)

*stick to your guns*

I wouldn't cut my price. Unless you need to make a mortgage payment for last month. You know your trade. You'll be there every step of the way so why should you not get the job at your original price. I get something like that here, N.H. and Maine contractor coming out of the woods, unlic. & uninsured. I realize they need to survive too.

If you cut your price where is your profit? Not your labor time. Your profit for taking the gamble.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well I lost the bid for the Fire job I was hopeing to land, well I guess it's time to hang up the trowels and go work at McDonald, I give up to many Cut Throats out there. Good Luck to you Guys:thumbsup:


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