# Best way to cut drywall for recessed lights?



## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm going to be installing at least 10 recessed lights and therefore need to cut the holes. I have access to my attic so was planning on using the new construction type housings. Im going with the Halo H5ICAT. 

My initial thought was that I would mark the centers of where I want them then either use a hole saw or a drywall circle cutter drill attachment and be done with it. 

Is this the best way?

Also a quick clarification if someone would.... the new construction housings...are they suppose to stick out of the ceiling? Like, do I drop them in the hole I cut? Or are they suppose to be flush with the ceiling? Or flush with the drywall (attic side)? 

Thanks


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Cut a basket ball in half, punch a hole for the mandrel in it. Place the hole saw in the half with the mandrel through the hole, chuck it up in a drill and have at it. This will collect most of the dust.

Make sure you clear your joists or any other obstruction above where the lights are placed.

Even with the room face of the drywall. If there is insulation make sure they are IC/AT recessed housings.

Tom


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Hole saw will eat you alive.

Very fine tooth blade in a jig saw or sawzall would be better.

Dust is a killer & a mess.

Try a narrow blade in a Multi Master.


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

tjbnwi said:


> Cut a basket ball in half, punch a hole for the mandrel in it. Place the hole saw in the half with the mandrel through the hole, chuck it up in a drill and have at it. This will collect most of the dust.


This is good. I've also heard of people using plastic dishes that go below plant pots.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

In an occupied home, I use a drywall saw and hold a 5 gallon bucket under it. In a remodel scenario where we're set as far as dust control, I use a hole saw.

I'll be using Tom's basketball idea...


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Tom wanted me to post these pics for him.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

griz said:


> Hole saw will eat you alive.
> 
> Very fine tooth blade in a jig saw or sawzall would be better.
> 
> ...


The hole saw Travis posted a picture of is deigned for 6" recessed lights. It is the cleanest and most accurate way to cut the hole. The o.d. is 6-3/8, I have them for 5" and 4" recessed. The 4" is the Remington grit edge. I've used them on wood, drywall and plaster. 

The basket ball solves the majority of the dust issue.

Tom


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

I've got one of these:

http://www.lsdinc.com/drilling-tools/7344/Dual-Bladed-Hole-Cutter


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Dam, you guys are some tough MOFO's if you can hang on to that hole saw.

I bought one when I had 20 or so to put in my own house.

Half way through the first one I threw it as far away as I could, never to be seen again....:thumbup:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

griz said:


> Dam, you guys are some tough MOFO's if you can hang on to that hole saw.
> 
> I bought one when I had 20 or so to put in my own house.
> 
> Half way through the first one I threw it as far away as I could, never to be seen again....:thumbup:


Technique, it's all in the technique.

Tom


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Tom's just to humble to admit he's a tough MOFO...


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> Technique, it's all in the technique.
> 
> Tom


yes sir you are correct...:thumbsup:

I grabbed it with my right hand, let it dip below my butt, circled upward and forward and launched it as far as I could down the hillside...

hasn't been seen since...:laughing:


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

griz said:


> yes sir you are correct...:thumbsup:
> 
> I grabbed it with my right hand, let it dip below my butt, circled upward and forward and launched it as far as I could down the hillside...
> 
> hasn't been seen since...:laughing:


:laughing:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

griz said:


> yes sir you are correct...:thumbsup:
> 
> I grabbed it with my right hand, let it dip below my butt, circled upward and forward and launched it as far as I could down the hillside...
> 
> hasn't been seen since...:laughing:


Holy shot put.....

Tom


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## mikeharold (Nov 1, 2013)

This type hole saw specifically for recessed cans
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/accessories/drilling/49-56-0303

And this for the dust
http://www.amazon.com/Drillers-Dust-Bowl-Hole-Collector/dp/B0087TBQDQ

Simple, clean, fast, and efficient.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

I bought one of these kits from...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Quick-Cutter-Adjustable-Hole-Saw-53731/203828012

It works okay and comes with the catch trays. So far it has done everything I have asked and cut more remodel can light holes than I can remember. The key is to use a high speed two handled monster of a drill, yet go sloooow. Cordless...forget about it.


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

Anyone use a rotozip? I saw that come up quite a bit when I was researching beforehand. I have an oscillating tool, but can't see it being that useful for this task. Especially for circles. 

Also, as for the recessed light housing. That lip that protrudes from the housing...it is just flush with the drywall right? As in I cut the hole, drop the light in, and it is flush with the ceiling correct? 

Here is a pic.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

God, a key hole saw in one hand and a vacuum hose in the other, or your helper holding the vacuum. Let's not complicate this guys. I hate the hole saw. Made things harder, when a key hole will do. They sell a plastic cup for the hole saw in the electrical department at the depot. It's clear too so you can see and you don't have to ruin a basketball, if that's what you think you need. I've cut 100's of cans in literally.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I'd use these remodel style cans. Not the new construction.


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Pros hang the new construction housing lights and drywall then cut the lights out with a Roto Zip :thumbsup:The edge of the round part of the housing is suppose to hang down 1/2" below the framing


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

Never had an issue with a hole saw. Issues usually arise if you are trying to cut too aggressively, then I guess it could bind on you a bit.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

I have an EZ HOLE hole cutter. Works great!






. I have a newer drill though😜


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

john91 said:


> Anyone use a rotozip? I saw that come up quite a bit when I was researching beforehand. I have an oscillating tool, but can't see it being that useful for this task. Especially for circles.
> 
> Also, as for the recessed light housing. That lip that protrudes from the housing...it is just flush with the drywall right? As in I cut the hole, drop the light in, and it is flush with the ceiling correct?
> 
> Here is a pic.


Roto Zip would work great. Just a little dusty. :thumbsup:


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Roto Zip would work great. Just a little dusty. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R06-miy9oAw



Great for new construction, but too dusty for remodeling unless the area is properly sealed off.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Roto zips are way to dusty for renovations. I like the tool Rustbucket posted.

The easiest way I do them is let my electrician.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I like the retro-fit cans in lieu of the new-contruction fixtures because it allows you to put the light exactly where you need it after the drywall is finished. Too many things can happen if your fixture is locked into one spot. You might think that the location is perfect while the room is being framed but it's something about how finished drywall can change your perspective.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

10 cans in a finished house?

Use a drywall compass and a drywall saw----all of those drilling rigs are more trouble than the are worth.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Peter_C said:


> I bought one of these kits from...
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Quick-Cutter-Adjustable-Hole-Saw-53731/203828012
> 
> It works okay and comes with the catch trays. So far it has done everything I have asked and cut more remodel can light holes than I can remember. The key is to use a high speed two handled monster of a drill, yet go sloooow. Cordless...forget about it.


With that one, high speed with very little pressure to keep it spinning. 

I would still do remodel cans and a laser to line 'em up.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

tedanderson said:


> I like the retro-fit cans in lieu of the new-contruction fixtures because it allows you to put the light exactly where you need it after the drywall is finished. Too many things can happen if your fixture is locked into one spot. You might think that the location is perfect while the room is being framed but it's something about how finished drywall can change your perspective.


In the areas I work, if it is new construction or open remodel they have be piped. The lights need to be in for the rough inspection. 

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Peter_C said:


> I bought one of these kits from...
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Quick-Cutter-Adjustable-Hole-Saw-53731/203828012
> 
> It works okay and comes with the catch trays. So far it has done everything I have asked and cut more remodel can light holes than I can remember. The key is to use a high speed two handled monster of a drill, yet go sloooow. Cordless...forget about it.


With my hole saws I use nothing but a cordless drill. On the toothed hole saw spin it backwards a couple of revolutions then forward to cut the hole. With the abrasive, forward or backwards works equally.

Tom


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> God, a key hole saw in one hand and a vacuum hose in the other, or your helper holding the vacuum. Let's not complicate this guys. I hate the hole saw. Made things harder, when a key hole will do. They sell a plastic cup for the hole saw in the electrical department at the depot. It's clear too so you can see and you don't have to ruin a basketball, if that's what you think you need. I've cut 100's of cans in literally.


Key Hole creates the least amount of dust and does the least amount of scattering the dust through out the room. Pretty much can hold a drywall bucket under the saw and catch 90%.

And of course the Keyhole saws always start. Battery never dies, cord never comes unplugged, breakers never trip ......




JonM said:


> Pros hang the new construction housing lights and drywall then cut the lights out with a Roto Zip :thumbsup:The edge of the round part of the housing is suppose to hang down 1/2" below the framing


The messiest method under the sun. And the easiest to F/U the can and drywall.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

mikeswoods said:


> 10 cans in a finished house?
> 
> Use a drywall compass and a drywall saw----all of those drilling rigs are more trouble than the are worth.


The cans come with a template to trace as well.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I have the same one Peter_C has. Less than $30 and it stores neatly in my boxes. It does a good job catching the debris, but that also has to do with the installer. 

biggest issue is making dead sure you aren't drilling overtop a joist. Sometimes I'll use a drywall saw and find the edge of the joist, then mark off of it for my center point. When using this method, I angle the drywall saw to cut shallow, so that it hits the joist before cutting to it (make sense?) so I don't overcut and can keep the can a tad away from the joist.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

tjbnwi said:


> With my hole saws I use nothing but a cordless drill. On the toothed hole saw spin it backwards a couple of revolutions then forward to cut the hole. With the abrasive, forward or backwards works equally.
> 
> Tom


No cordless with the tool I use. It isn't a hole saw in the normal sense, and at least my brushless Makita drill doesn't like it. I have an old 1/2" Porter Cable hammer drill that has mass and power with a big side handle. 



72chevy4x4 said:


> I have the same one Peter_C has. Less than $30 and it stores neatly in my boxes. It does a good job catching the debris, but that also has to do with the installer.
> 
> biggest issue is making dead sure you aren't drilling overtop a joist. Sometimes I'll use a drywall saw and find the edge of the joist, then mark off of it for my center point. When using this method, I angle the drywall saw to cut shallow, so that it hits the joist before cutting to it (make sense?) so I don't overcut and can keep the can a tad away from the joist.


Sometimes for locating them as close to the dimensions I desire, I will actually put them right up against the joist and screw the can in place with a drywall screw to the ceiling joist. Also do the same thing when replacing an existing non can light that was nailed to the joist. The regular remodel clips need a decent amount of side clearance otherwise.


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

Californiadecks said:


> I'd use these remodel style cans. Not the new construction.


How come? I have access to the attic and the new construction housings are $5 dollars cheaper. Is the convenience of not nailing into the joists worth $50? 

Maybe I'm missing something?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

john91 said:


> How come? I have access to the attic and the new construction housings are $5 dollars cheaper. Is the convenience of not nailing into the joists worth $50?
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something?


I can get 6 remodel cans for about 50.00. Yes I'll pay 5.00 more not to go in the attic. Absolutely! I'd pay 20 bucks more a can for that. But at 50 bucks for 6 it's small potatoes. 

I put 56 in my home. It was nice not going in the attic. Attics out here are often 120-130 degrees. 

No thank you! Again 50 bucks for 6 small potatoes.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Now I will use the new construction cans on new construction. It's a no brainer.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

john91 said:


> How come? I have access to the attic and the new construction housings are $5 dollars cheaper. Is the convenience of not nailing into the joists worth $50?
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something?


$50.00 is cheaper that crawling around in the attic, moving insulation and tools and making up the wiring while hunched over knee deep in insulation.

Yes, to the remodeling cans----they are the right fixture for installing into existing drywall.


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

Well I still have to go into the attic to wire them all up and run some new wire. So I'm not really saving on that aspect. Plus 50 bucks could get me another tool haha.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

I also opt for the remodel cans when the drywall is already in. Time saved/less crawling around in the attic works for me. I'll spend the little extra any time knowing what I saved overall. 

Keyhole saw for cutting the hole, it's just not that hard to do and easy to control dust. I have one of the Klein circle cutters, tried it on one job but was having a problem getting a hole as tight as I wanted for the remodel cans so I gave up using it :laughing:


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

Thanks everybody. I think it's time to just do it. I'll try the cheaper method (drywall saw) and see how that works out. I'm hoping that I can get a pack of the remodel cans for just about the same cost as the new construction. But as for individual ones go. They are $5 more. 

I'm off to the store


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

john91 said:


> Thanks everybody. I think it's time to just do it. I'll try the cheaper method (drywall saw) and see how that works out. I'm hoping that I can get a pack of the remodel cans for just about the same cost as the new construction. But as for individual ones go. They are $5 more.
> 
> I'm off to the store


Don't be such a cheap ass! :laughing:


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## mikeharold (Nov 1, 2013)

john91 said:


> Well I still have to go into the attic to wire them all up and run some new wire. So I'm not really saving on that aspect. Plus 50 bucks could get me another tool haha.


You shouldn't be having to go into the the attic to wire the cans or even pull the wire. Only time I have to go in the attic for remodel cans is if I have to run a new switch leg for them and that's only one trip up there. 

Locate and cut all your holes for the cans. Get a set of fiberglass poles for fishing wire. run the pole from one hole to the next. Connect your wire to the pole and pull the wire. Leave excess wire hanging out of each hole to wire the cans. Rinse and repeat until all your wire is run. Wire up each can one at a time then install into the ceiling. Rinse and repeat until all cans are installed. Install trim kits, clean up, grab a beer(or beverage of choice), turn on the lights and enjoy!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

And John remember there's a wrong way to use that keyhole, hint the direction of the teeth. Could mean the difference between drywall patch or not.


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

Sounds good. I got my fishing tape stuck on a fireblock fishing a coax cable. I don't know what it's caught on but I'm procrastinating on cutting drywall to find out. Haha


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## _xyz (Oct 28, 2015)

EricBrancard said:


> I've got one of these:
> 
> http://www.lsdinc.com/drilling-tools/7344/Dual-Bladed-Hole-Cutter


This. Worth every penny.


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

I got the Milwaukee one from Home Depot today. Haven't tried it but it seems from the reviews to be better than the Klein one. Those were my only options. If it doesn't work to well Im just using the keyhole saw. 


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

I'll post an update here on that tool in case anyone is curious or interested. 


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

*Best Way To Cut Drywall For Recessed Lights?*

Hole saw for me. If your are putting recessed in your attic make sure you cap the housing with something to air seal the fixture. Lots of heat loss there.


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

All about qty, skill level, and type of build. A couple... Keyhole, a dozen... Maybe a hole saw.... A few hundred or thousand... Rotozips. The cordless are pretty standard now.


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## Jono41 (Jun 18, 2015)

I find it hard to believe people have trouble using a hole saw to cut through drywall 😐 Use a router or mark it out and use a drywall saw.


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## john91 (Nov 17, 2015)

I tried using that milwaukee tool and it was creating sparks! I cut the first hole, and the blade was already dull. I cut a second one a lot slower but still sparking. The third one was cutting slowly and I pushed a little too much. The tool caught, the drill spun despite having two hands, twisted my wrist, I'm okay thankfully, and I let go. Tool dropped and plastic catch pan broke. 

Now I just use it as a scribe/hole starter then use the keyhole saw. Works pretty well like that. Could also be from my nearly 1" thick drywall! 

IMO don't buy that thing. A keyhole saw does the trick pretty well. 

Here's a pick of that tool being used by someone.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

.....


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

blacktop said:


> ,,,,


Well what does blacktop use when he's trying to minimize dust?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Well what does blacktop use when he's trying to minimize dust?


It's sheetrock! Good luck!! :whistling


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

blacktop said:


> It's sheetrock! Good luck!! :whistling


I get that but I can have a can cut with a keyhole in about 20 seconds. It vacuums easily.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

seriously tho.. A circle cutter and a keyhole saw with a bucket held close beneath the cut can make the task almost dustless ! Almost !!


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Am I missing something? I cut at least 30 2 weeks ago and not a bit of dust with the Dewalt cordless roto cutter. Used shop vac hose in 1 hand and saw in other, when it spins, the dust is kicked to the right, hold hose close to that bit and it will get every piece of dust if you don't push the tool, let it do the work. Right before you reach all the way around, use the vac to suck onto the cut piece so it doesn't fall and hit the floor, that always sends dust flying when it hits. Then put on brush attachment and clean hole, dust always remains on the hole. Then move onto next, 2 minutes maybe per light, very clean and easy.

I mark an X on the centerish area of light, plunge bit and run to side, lift over metal lip and use the metal flange as my guide as I go around. The roto tool is the quickest and easiest way to cut drywall. Heck, every light switch, outlet and light is cut using it. Once you get the feel and hang of it, it is very fast and use a shop vac, it's clean too. I never pre cut outlets, doorways or anything, takes to much time.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

brhokel606 said:


> Am I missing something?


Not really, just there are a few ways to do it. Especially in a retro fit application. Took the OP's situation as being able to do Holes first cans after.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

We have the Lennox carbide grit continuous rim hole saw for 6" cans. It cuts a perfect hole but forget about dustless. We also have a Bosch carbide toothed hole saw for 4" cans and 6" cans. Again...forget about dustless. 

For retro work a keyhole saw or Rotozip with a vac hose right next to the cut. For new always a Rotozip. I can't imagine hanging any drywall and not having a Rotozip for cut outs.


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