# Need some help...



## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

I am bidding a porch remodel and was wondering if anyone would chime in and lend a helping hand or opinions on it. Here is a picture of the existing porch 










Here are some fast numbers I just joted down here. And very breif descriptions. Just remember these numbers were thrown together at 1150pm and my brain may not be working at full strength so dont beat me up if you think im off or thinking crazy. Theyre just a start for me to tweek. 

The entire porch will be removed and replaced with the same style just using composite decking and vinyl railing systems. I have never built a porch this large, although I have done quite a few decks and smaller porches. I just sometimes have a hard time figuring out how long it will take realisticly. So any suggestions would be great, good or bad. Porch size is 10'x27' 9'10" height and 18" of crawl space undernieth.

Day 1-3 Demo 4guys
Day 4-5 Prep/dig/set support posts/ concrete tubes 3guys
Day 6-7 Build/set deck framing set roofposts 4x4's 3guys
Day 8-9 Decking install - Begin framing for roof 3guys
Day 10-12 Finish framing set roof plywood roof /paper 3 guys 
Day 13-15 Flash shingle railings gutters D/S 3guys
Day 15-18 Bottom railings posts vinyl bottom of roof of Aztek beadboard 3guys

16hrs misc. running around
16hrs permit/inspection time
20hrs where i missed hours

Am I around where others would be or am I just thinking wrong? If I can still add, that comes to 484hrs to build that porch. Seems like a lot to me, but then again I always think things can be done faster than it does.

Thanks for the advice in advance.


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## SuperiorBuilt (Mar 20, 2007)

why do you think it would take 4 guys 3 days to demo this porch?
I would think more along the lines of a day for demo. This would save you 2days for 4 guys at 8 hours per day = 64 man hours.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

I considered w/ OSB screwed to windows and door. Protecting lawn. Doing it by hand. Also cleaning up and get ready for rebuild. Just seems like a lot to do for 1 day, but I appriacate the opinion. Will take it into consideration.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

What I should have asked is, what method would you consider to demo that in 1 day?


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## bill r (Feb 19, 2007)

now I don't know too much about this, but I didn't notice any specific allowance in your budget for re-interfacing with the old building after the demo complete. (Crawling underneath, rotten lumber, decayed fasteners, etc.) No need to answer me, just think it over.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

bill r said:


> now I don't know too much about this, but I didn't notice any specific allowance in your budget for re-interfacing with the old building after the demo complete. (Crawling underneath, rotten lumber, decayed fasteners, etc.) No need to answer me, just think it over.


I'm not quite understanding what youre asking. Then again I didnt put any specifics in this thread. Just a general overview to get opinions on. The front of the porch is rotten and that is the main reason for the rebuild, when I say demo that means take the whole porch and porch roof off the front of the house.


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

SuperiorBuilt said:


> why do you think it would take 4 guys 3 days to demo this porch?
> I would think more along the lines of a day for demo. This would save you 2days for 4 guys at 8 hours per day = 64 man hours.


Yep...one day demo... 1.5 days max..


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

So far, the demo is where I seem to be high. Does this mean I am in line with the other numbers and time it should take to rebuild?


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Yeah the demo is a little long... I could do it all by myslef in 2-3 days without any help. I would budget 1.5-2 days for that. Everything else sounds like a good buffer to me. I dont even think you would need the "extra" 20 hrs. 

To break it down I could frame the lower deck myself in 1.5-2 days. Toss 2 more guys in and if takes 2 full days someone is just standing around. 

Just today I dug 6 pier holes. 2 I had to cut through a concrete patio and jackhammer out the concrete. total time (barely breaking a sweat all day) about 5 hours.

So that is just a little about me... It all comes down to how fast your guys work.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Is the upper porch functional? Pitch seems too low for asphalt. Rubber with floating deck...?The upper deck details IMO will be the most time comsuming to guarantee the porch wont rot again.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

WNYcarpenter said:


> Is the upper porch functional? Pitch seems too low for asphalt. Rubber with floating deck...?The upper deck details IMO will be the most time comsuming to guarantee the porch wont rot again.


The railing above is decoration only. Does have asphalt shingles now. The major problems are at the front base deck. It is resting on railroad ties that are just resting on the ground. The bottom deck is sinking in about 4-5 inches out of level. The top roof is pulling due to this as well and the flashing at the house is failing.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Eric K said:


> The railing above is decoration only. Does have asphalt shingles now. The major problems are at the front base deck. It is resting on railroad ties that are just resting on the ground. The bottom deck is sinking in about 4-5 inches out of level. The top roof is pulling due to this as well and the flashing at the house is failing.


 With your new porch deck are you rasing the plane seeing you have considerable room beneath the entry door? 

I don't want to tell you how to do your job, I'm curious. I think your bid is low! I've done many porches similar and we always run into bigger problems, or critical aspects are missed. Your finish carpentry time seems low especially. 

Are you demo-ing the roof as well? Beam and post wraps, setting railings, flooring, skirting....


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## hrscammisa (Mar 9, 2007)

Dont for get you have to get a dumpster or hall off the old deck that is money you dont have in it. I just did a 10x50 tear off and built new deck it was 8ft up. total hours 1 day demo 1 day set new post and put up ledger. 1 day joist and layed decking and set front beams.1day hand rail. 1 day paint. half day to fill dumpster did it all my self. only help was too kids for 2 hours to hand up the decking. I think once you guys go at it, it wont take that long. I will guess it takes you guys 7 days at the most.But dont let me change your bid HO have to learn that they not only pay for our labor but for our esperance as well


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

I didnt include any of the material costs on this thread, I am actually working on some sketches and makeing a material list. As for raising the entire porch I would like to keep it at the same level just raise the front as it has sunk. Now Im thinking about it, after we get the roof part stripped down and find it to be salavagable, what ways are there to support the roof and work undernieth, safely. Drive pins through some boards laying on the ground away from the roof and put 2x6's under the framing of it? Just dont know if thats the safest way to tackle that.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Greatly appricated! :thumbup:


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## keepitstraight (Nov 12, 2006)

*demo*

my first thought was that the demo was 1 to 1.5 days by myself. if i could, i'd temporarily support the roof w/lvl's and posts and build under it with the new stuff.

my experience in remods is that you may have rotten framing or at least ledger for the porch and agree w/wnycarpenter that i'd raise the deck if possible. if they are wanting artificial decking, know that trex is not good for places where fire can get it. brother in law is super fireman for california and saw a fire where a grill jumped a flaming spot of grease and burned the deck and adjoining wall down in about 37 minutes. they checked different deck materials out at the local lumber yard and trex was the worst. i've also seen it pretty decomposed in damp locations within about three years especially where it hit the joist.

if the roof is basically sound you may be able to just beef up the deck or replace it and shingle it. have fun and good luck. (ps, i'd rent a post hole digger if the soil weren't rocky. set your posts more quickly or at least make it tons easier to dig the rest of the hole out for the sonotubes. if there's concrete i'd rent a jackhammer. )

don't forget removing and the replacement of the brick sidewalk right up against the porch.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

keepitstraight said:


> my first thought was that the demo was 1 to 1.5 days by myself. if i could, i'd temporarily support the roof w/lvl's and posts and build under it with the new stuff.
> 
> my experience in remods is that you may have rotten framing or at least ledger for the porch and agree w/wnycarpenter that i'd raise the deck if possible. if they are wanting artificial decking, know that trex is not good for places where fire can get it. brother in law is super fireman for california and saw a fire where a grill jumped a flaming spot of grease and burned the deck and adjoining wall down in about 37 minutes. they checked different deck materials out at the local lumber yard and trex was the worst. i've also seen it pretty decomposed in damp locations within about three years especially where it hit the joist.
> 
> ...



Good call on the brick sidewalk. I did already plan on the digger, anything to make less work Im all for it!


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Eric K said:


> I didnt include any of the material costs on this thread, I am actually working on some sketches and makeing a material list. As for raising the entire porch I would like to keep it at the same level just raise the front as it has sunk. Now Im thinking about it, after we get the roof part stripped down and find it to be salavagable, what ways are there to support the roof and work undernieth, safely. Drive pins through some boards laying on the ground away from the roof and put 2x6's under the framing of it? Just dont know if thats the safest way to tackle that.
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions. Greatly appricated! :thumbup:


 This is a little basic, a little too basic to give you step by step instructions here. You need a couple bottle jacks, some 2x material and legs to the ground.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

No need for step by step. I know what I can do to do it, if it turns into a possiblity.


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## beerisgoodfood (Mar 16, 2007)

Just a comment on demo.

If you have dummies hacking it apart in a day they may do more damage than its worth vs. a couple skilled carpenters taking apart what they are going to build on and taking advantage of things they discover and correct problems they find.

In my experience id rather demo it slow and clean up all the little stuff like 80 year old caulk on the brick etc. All that little stuff bites you in the ass eventually. 

Maybe im slow and do clean work but me and my partner would probably bid that job at 5 weeks to be on the safe side.

Sure you could hack it apart in a day but why?

Do the job right the first time and youll be much happier in the longrun.

JMO.


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## hrscammisa (Mar 9, 2007)

Cut out some spots in the deck and put down some pads post up to a 6x6 beam for shoring and then run some braces off of your post we did a lot of this kind of stuff when we use to build parking garages of course on a much larger scale but that would work for you sory about the step by step but thats the only way to explain it.


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