# What is this trowel used for?



## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Specifically.


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## CPMKW (Apr 28, 2014)

Larger format floor tile... 12x24 16x16... You get the idea. The u notch trowel allows the tile to bed down into the thinset a bit easier, with less build up in height over the subfloor. Also, U notch is less likely to trap air under the tile.

Do I pass?

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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

CPMKW said:


> Larger format floor tile... 12x24 16x16... You get the idea. The u notch trowel allows the tile to bed down into the thinset a bit easier, with less build up in height over the subfloor. Also, U notch is less likely to trap air under the tile.
> 
> Do I pass?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


I guess. Sounds legitimate.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Big Johnson said:


> Specifically.


Im gonna say trowling for the win.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

A square notch trowel will leave a bed of 1/2 of the dimensions as a mortar bed when the tile is set---1/4" trowel leaves 1/8" bed.

A U notch trowel will leave 1/3 of the dimension as a mortar bed. A 3/8" U notch will leave 1/8" bed.

U notches are better for floors, you need a larger notch to get the same bed, on walls it can get difficult. 

As CP stated a u-notch is a little easier to bed in.

Tom


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

tjbnwi said:


> A square notch trowel will leave a bed of 1/2 of the dimensions as a mortar bed when the tile is set---1/4" trowel leaves 1/8" bed.
> 
> A U notch trowel will leave 1/3 of the dimension as a mortar bed. A 3/8" U notch will leave 1/8" bed.
> 
> ...



So it’s made for doing a full mortar bed not thinset


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

tjbnwi said:


> A square notch trowel will leave a bed of 1/2 of the dimensions as a mortar bed when the tile is set---1/4" trowel leaves 1/8" bed.
> 
> A U notch trowel will leave 1/3 of the dimension as a mortar bed. A 3/8" U notch will leave 1/8" bed.
> 
> ...


Spoken like a true prophet


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

Big Johnson said:


> So it’s made for doing a full mortar bed not thinset


No, it's still a thinset trowel.. The mortar bed he's referring to is thinset.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Big Johnson said:


> So it’s made for doing a full mortar bed not thinset


Thin set, medium set, works with either.

The bed is the amount of mortar thickness left under the tile after you push the tile into the mortar (bed the tile). 

Figuring the bed is can be difficult or easy, depending on how flat the tile is. 

This should help;

https://www.rubi.com/us/blog/tile-trowel-size/

Tom


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

So basically....for floors getting large format tile.

I wish I knew that a couple weeks ago. I had just purchased two square notch 1/2 x 1/2's. Oh well.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Another tip, something I discovered the hard way...

Porclien tile must be back troweled or back buttered. I found my back butter was inconsistent. I now use the Kerdi or Ditra trowel depending on how flat the tile is and back trowel them all. Ended up being faster for me.

Tom


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

MarkJames said:


> So basically....for floors getting large format tile.
> 
> I wish I knew that a couple weeks ago. I had just purchased two square notch 1/2 x 1/2's. Oh well.


The 3/8” one pictured is for 1/8” bed so that’s good for 12x12, which is most of my tile.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

tjbnwi said:


> Another tip, something I discovered the hard way...
> 
> Porclien tile must be back troweled or back buttered. I found my back butter was inconsistent. I now use the Kerdi or Ditra trowel depending on how flat the tile is and back trowel them all. Ended up being faster for me.
> 
> Tom


I’ve always back buttered.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I always figured you get about 1/3 the thickness with a square notch trowel, assuming you spread at an angle. You get about 1/4" ridges with a 3/8 trowel. Then you half that by pressing the tile in and spreading it evenly.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Big Johnson said:


> I’ve always back buttered.


Same here. Every tile gets backbuttered.

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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Big Johnson said:


> I’ve always back buttered.





TNTSERVICES said:


> Same here. Every tile gets backbuttered.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I'm not being snarky or anything else by asking the following questions. You guys may know something I don't, thats why I'm asking.

White backed glass tile--do you back butter? I never have.

Mosaic sheet--do you wipe the backs?

As I said, I found it's easier for me to back trowel with the Kerdi or Ditra trowel. 

Anything over 6x6 porcelain or ceramic I hit the back also. 

Tom


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

tjbnwi said:


> I'm not being snarky or anything else by asking the following questions. You guys may know something I don't, thats why I'm asking.
> 
> White backed glass tile--do you back butter? I never have.
> 
> ...



I do not back butter mosaic.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> I'm not being snarky or anything else by asking the following questions. You guys may know something I don't, thats why I'm asking.
> 
> White backed glass tile--do you back butter? I never have.
> 
> ...


I premount my mosaics in bath installs.

Backslashes is a different story. I flatten the thinset to achieve recommended coverage. 

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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Big Johnson said:


> I do not back butter mosaic.





TNTSERVICES said:


> I premount my mosaics in bath installs.
> 
> Backslashes is a different story. I flatten the thinset to achieve recommended coverage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Thanks.

Tom


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I premount my mosaics in bath installs.


what do you mean by premount? before the wall tile? 

Had a row of 2" square mosaic on top of a half wall of tile and I was able to use the Raimondi clips-was nice b/c it pulled them out so they were in plane with the wall tile.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

AustinDB said:


> what do you mean by premount? before the wall tile?
> 
> Had a row of 2" square mosaic on top of a half wall of tile and I was able to use the Raimondi clips-was nice b/c it pulled them out so they were in plane with the wall tile.


Probably on sheets of ditra.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

AustinDB said:


> what do you mean by premount? before the wall tile?
> 
> Had a row of 2" square mosaic on top of a half wall of tile and I was able to use the Raimondi clips-was nice b/c it pulled them out so they were in plane with the wall tile.


I mounted these on Kerdi, have used Ditra to plane things out.

Tom


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

never thought of that, thanks guys. 

I've been using strips of Kerdi and Ditra on rare occasions, to build out the mosaic but it's typcially difficult b/c the field tile above and below is already in place which doesn't leave a lot of room for troweling the thinset.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

AustinDB said:


> never thought of that, thanks guys.
> 
> I've been using strips of Kerdi and Ditra on rare occasions, to build out the mosaic but it's typcially difficult b/c the field tile above and below is already in place which doesn't leave a lot of room for troweling the thinset.


You can mount the mosaic, let it set, trowel the backer not the wall, set the band in place.

Tom


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

AustinDB said:


> never thought of that, thanks guys.
> 
> I've been using strips of Kerdi and Ditra on rare occasions, to build out the mosaic but it's typcially difficult b/c the field tile above and below is already in place which doesn't leave a lot of room for troweling the thinset.


Pre mount to Kerdi if the mosaic is thick, ditra if it’s thin. You can lay it on a bench and not worry about sag. I’ll fabricate a tool the thickness of the grout line and use it to create consistent grout lines throughout the sheet of mosaic. Leave the ditra (or kerdi) a little large, then trim it after the thinset sets and before installing on the wall. You can do long rows, then slap it on the wall the next day. So much easier and faster to work on a bench than on a wall.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Will this work with a diagonal pattern? Mount and setup, then cut it down the following day? 


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

AustinDB said:


> Will this work with a diagonal pattern? Mount and setup, then cut it down the following day?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. If you have a way to cut it. 

Tom


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Wet saw. 


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## Bedfordboy116 (May 11, 2014)

That is genius. Definitely trying that next time.


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