# Brick/Mortar/Joints porosity?



## rwdozier (Sep 10, 2018)

Hello,

I have a leak that that has been difficult to locate. During a driving rain (about 1.5" in 1.5 hours) towards the bay window wall (photo attached), the water leaks from the ceiling in the room with a bay window. A good amount of water leaks in and the homeowner reports mopping up as much as 5 gallons of water in the floor. But during a long very heavy 'straight down' rain, no leak! I am assuming that some through wall flashing above the bay windows did not get installed properly. My questions: can a brick wall (brick, mortar and joint cracks) really be that porous to allow that much water through? Would sealing the brick correct the situation vs. tearing out the brick and make sure the bay window has proper through wall flashing?

Thank you.
Bob


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Experience tells me because I witnessed it first hand through practice that most common brick will completely saturate to the backside during prolonged driving rains. Sealers like SK PD would help but aren't designed for that duty. Through wall flashing needs to be installed. In modern construction, the lack of weeps tells me there is none.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Have you ruled out the upper window ledge, sides/corners, and clogged or caulked weep holes, and stuff like that?


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

As S/S has said you need something like this https://www.cavitytrays.com/damp-proofing/view/1/42/1/advantage-range

Tests by the Building Research Establishment have shown that heavy driving rain can get through the head joints in less than 30 minutes.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

There is a way to flash that, that no one does right.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)




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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

That sill detail isn't pitched from the looks of it. Remove and order a fabricated piece of stone imo. Or litch the bricks


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

As the video JBM posted,if it is not flashed properly from the get go,you will be dancing with that problem til the cows come home. 

As the architect Louie Sullivan said "the devil is in the details " .


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Got that video from you maybe 5 or 6 years ago lol


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

rwdozier said:


> Hello,
> 
> My questions: can a brick wall (brick, mortar and joint cracks) really be that porous to allow that much water through? Would sealing the brick correct the situation vs. tearing out the brick and make sure the bay window has proper through wall flashing?
> 
> ...



Absolutely ! ! In one study I read,the threshold for brick alone to stop wind driven rain from entering the building is 16" of brick. Secondly,as this video points out,improperly filled head joints can allow between 8 - 67 % more water intrusion than properly filled joints.


With the sheer volume of water entering the building,putting a sealer on to solve the issue would be like putting a band-aid on a sword wound.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Many of our Victorian or Edwardian houses are 9 inch walls, although the Regs were changed to 13.5 for solid walls in the 1930's. However since then most houses used cavity walls.
3 years ago we had an unusual period of prolonged heavy wind driven which was getting through even some of the thicker brick walls in exposed areas.


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## rwdozier (Sep 10, 2018)

First of all, I'd like to thank each of you for responding to my post! Bunch of good guys out there willing to help.

Before posting my issue here, I have researched this issue looking for resolution for a good while now. We thought we corrected the obvious things (externally) and actually thought it was fixed in that there was a long hard rain afterwards and no leak - but it was a hard rain, straight down!

There are not any "real" experts on the subject locally out here in the Permian Basin of West Texas - if there is a local expert, I haven't found one. I say that because I can drive through just about any subdivision out here where long time reputable builders are building (myself included and guilty as well) and see that almost 100% of them have absolutely no through wall flashing, i.e. no weep holes, and the brick sills are flat. (Good catch from the photo of "no pitch sill" by JBM and his comment -" There is a way to flash that, that no one does right."!)

superseal hit the nail on the head - "In modern construction, the lack of weeps tells me there is none."

I have done several remodels of homes built in the 1950s involving brick demo and none of them had proper flashing. These renegade construction trades out here and builders who don't hold them accountable (again, myself included) have just gotten away with improper or lack of flashing because of our local climate of not a lot of rain.

Well, my research and your responses have really opened my eyes as to why brick veneer is to have a drainage cavity tray, proper through wall flashing and a way for water to exit. Hey, it's in the IRC and our local city building inspectors haven't enforced it! During my research, I was looking for something that indicated just how much water can pass through the brick wall and found nothing specific other than it does, in fact, allow water through, must be properly drained and able to dry out. Several of you pointed that out it can be quite a bit pass through. It just amazes me of just how much came through in my case.

I now know that brick demolition is my near future to resolve this issue!

Sorry for my long post and rant. Thanks again to all who responded.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

I would try a water sealer before any major demo. I have had a lot of success with professional products fixing water problems for customers with driving rains. It’s amazing how it repels the water and keeps it from absorbing into the brick wall

Plus it does not help that underneath the second story window you have a brick rowlock instead of a limestone sill 


I had a customer in Oak Park, Illinois that had a similar situation just like the picture above and the water sealing worked... He hasn’t had water in the two years since I did it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

rwdozier said:


> First of all, I'd like to thank each of you for responding to my post! Bunch of good guys out there willing to help.
> 
> Before posting my issue here, I have researched this issue looking for resolution for a good while now. We thought we corrected the obvious things (externally) and actually thought it was fixed in that there was a long hard rain afterwards and no leak - but it was a hard rain, straight down!
> 
> ...


I'd spray it with a siloxaine before demo. Only spray the water based one lol. And double check the caulking on the sills.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

JBM said:


> I'd spray it with a siloxaine before demo. Only spray the water based one lol. And double check the caulking on the sills.




Why do you recommend the water based? 

Stuff I use isn’t and I know for a fact you will be hating life if you don’t protect the windows and I learned the hard way to not spray anywhere near any parked cars

That silicone chit doesn’t wash off! Hahah because it obviously repels water


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

These guys provide a variety of products to address water intrusion in masonry and how to allow it to drain.

https://mortarnet.com/


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Windycity said:


> Why do you recommend the water based?
> 
> Stuff I use isn’t and I know for a fact you will be hating life if you don’t protect the windows and I learned the hard way to not spray anywhere near any parked cars
> 
> ...


Spraying the solvent one with out a proper mask isn't a good idea, plus it'll mess up those shingles if he does t cover em


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## rwdozier (Sep 10, 2018)

Based on my research and the great suggestions here, I am getting my ducks in a row to tackle this issue. It's not like I have to hurry up about it since it may be awhile before it rains here again. Ha! The sooner, the better.

And yes, believe me, I am a stickler about protecting surroundings. It's just a bit more money in labor and materials but way less than having to clean up or redo later. Hey, I even paper the concrete floors prior to hanging sheetrock to prevent the dust from being ground into the concrete. Tile guys have told me, "Wow, I don't have to scrape and clean the floors on your jobs."

...Bob


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Did you work your way up the side with a hose? Might help.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Note use of "builder's Specials...." 3" bed, manure sold as veneer brick IMHO to save pennies a square foot. One fractional step above stick on brick....

Cheap windows & doors with short jambs force near zero cavity construction that leads to blocked cavities = more larger leaks

Combined with fractionally filled head joints = Uber leaker.

All climes on Earth except the Arctic and Antarctic eventually receive Very Heavy Rains, even desert climes.

Next home, run the bay to the roof line.... no High tech flashing for the illegals to puzzle out...

What IS GOING ON in the Peak?


The up stairs window sills appear to laid with the HOLES UP.....
The Quion stone and brick detail to right needs a wash or flashing, Same issue..... Where is the Gutter for the roof( to the right) that is dumping on to the sure leak area.......

May be it is time to seek employment in some other trade?

A Man knows his limits, Clint Eastwood.


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