# Home owner claiming theft



## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

So I recently (3-4 months ago) started work for a new contractor. They recently started on the new Lowes installs and they sub out the smaller multi-trade jobs out to me so they don't have to schedule 7 different trades on a 5k job. Anyway about a month ago I did a bunch of drywall patches on a bigger job that had a lot of other subs there. I was only there 3 times for a couple hours each. There were at least 4 other subs there at the same time, in and out. The home owner showed up twice while I was there and it was clear that she was upset with the progress of the job. Cussing, muttering about sueing under her breath, the works. I just kept my head down and kept working she never spoke to me directly. So this morning I get a call that everyone who set foot on the job has to get interviewed by an investigator....awesome. So on a job I basically did as a favour because I get a lot of other work from this contractor I get this. Anyone else dealt with this before? What should I expect and should I prepare anything before hand? I don't keep a log book maybe I should. I'm not worried about it I just don't want to get caught flat footed.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

What good would a logbook do? Are you going to write in it that you stole something?

As for the 'investigator', make him come to you . "3 PM Thursday? Yeah, that's good. I'll be at 1234 Main Street then. Do you need directions?"


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## libbycop (Dec 5, 2011)

There were multiple contractors on the job??- Good luck proving anyone stole something

As far as an investigator wanting to interview people i agree with Sparky- Come to me- i wouldnt go anywhere


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

WHO Was doing the drywall patches ?

That would be the first guy I'd investigate ! :whistling.......:laughing:


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## deter (Apr 4, 2013)

First of all, I would refuse to be interviewed by an "investigator".


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

I hope you got paid already


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## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

I haven't been paid yet because it's a 30 day so it's not due till the end of this week. I'm not to worried about it though because they are a solid company and are already calling me to line up more jobs. Seems the consensus is to tell the investigator to take a hike... I understand that option but I don't want to create tension in a good relationship...I think I'll show up and get out as son as I can... I don't have much to say... I showed up, did my job, left...


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Who's calling for the investigator? What's for you to gain?


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## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

Im sure it's the home owner...she seemed pretty peeved with Lowes. The only thing I have to gain/lose is a good relationship with the contractor I'm working for. They've been great to work for, aside from the BS coming from the lame Lowes management. Lowes' poor management skills usually don't affect me though, I'm usually able to get things done and the contractor above me deals with the BS.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

If you kept a log, you might have information that would quickly exclude from the suspects. For instance, you may have been on another project between the last time she saw her jewelry (or whatever) and discovered it missing.

A daily note book is pretty solid evidence, as opposed to "I think I was there on Tuesday from 10 til 2, oh wait that was Wednesday, Tuesday was 2 til 4, I'm pretty sure."

I'm not sure I would speak with the "investigator", you don't know what his angle is, you could easily implicate yourself. Send the investigator to your attorney.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Kolbym said:


> Im sure it's the home owner...she seemed pretty peeved with Lowes. The only thing I have to gain/lose is a good relationship with the contractor I'm working for. They've been great to work for, aside from the BS coming from the lame Lowes management. Lowes' poor management skills usually don't affect me though, I'm usually able to get things done and the contractor above me deals with the BS.


If I understand this correctly, this was a job where you were subcontracted by or through Lowes.

If the homeowner has hired an investigator, neither Lowes nor any GC you work with will be pleased if you speak with this investigator.

Unless you are subpoenaed, you don't have to say anything or meet anyone.

If the investigator has been hired on behalf of YOUR side, then by all means cooperate fully.


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## libbycop (Dec 5, 2011)

Multiple contractors on the job- somethings missing??

Always blaming the paint crew!


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## Home wood (Mar 8, 2014)

I do insurance restoration work and I have seen this happen first hand.
Home owner called me ( I was the project co ordinator) and explained how she was missing some belongings. I asked her what they were and what the aprox value was.
She gave me the info and value was roughly $2500. I told her that this was quite a big deal I do not believe any of my co workers would have done this but she should contact the police and file a report with them and we will co operate fully with them.
Two days later I received an email that she had found the belongings.
I believe she thought we would just pay her to go away.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Home wood said:


> I told her that this was quite a big deal I do not believe any of my co workers would have done this but she should contact the police and file a report with them and we will co operate fully with them. Two days later I received an email that she had found the belongings.


I had a similar situation where the owner mysteriously found their missing stuff after I said, "I hope you can prove it because I will be filing a false-arrest lawsuit if the cops come to get me."


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

You are innocent until proven guilty. I'd speak to the GC and no one else. Including police. Well, OK, I might answer a few basic questions from police to avoid suspicion but if it got real, I'd clam up. It's all likely a bluff though, she probably wants a price break.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Since I don't see what exactly was stolen, I gotta ask:

Is the claim that some _personal property_ was taken (jewelry, TV, etc.), or the _work performed is substandard_?

If it's personal property, it's going to be damned tough to root out the theivin' bastid with so many pairs of feet trodding through the place. If it's workmanship that's being called into question, then it would be fairly easy to pin it on one sub.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I had a client freak out because someone stole her iPad. Half a dozen interior HD cameras later she found it behind the drivers seat in her car.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Amazing how quick people are accusing us of stealing, yet have no problems with not paying us. :whistling


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

I once had a customer who accused my helper, at the time, of stealing some shampoo. Yeah, shampoo.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I once got a call from a police officer who was called to client's home (I had been there a couple weeks earlier). Client reported that somebody must have broken into her house the previous night and installed toilet tank fresheners - the ones that turn the water blue when you flush. She insisted they weren't there before and suspected a contractor must have done it. He was appeasing her and making a couple calls. She ended up getting a medical intervention. Seriously.


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## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

She claims it was a gun stolen. apparently it was stolen before we came on the job to clean up the other contractors mess? I plan on answering two or three basic questions to not look like I'm avoiding something and going on my way.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I did a reno job for that other big box store ONCE. Long story but I'll never do another! The first thing they did before I could start was a background check . I was cool with It. I even enjoyed wearing my little name tag.:laughing: 

This lady Kolbym speaks of went through Lowe's to have this work done to her home..That's a red flag flying IMO.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Kolbym said:


> She claims it was a gun stolen. apparently it was stolen before we came on the job to clean up the other contractors mess? I plan on answering two or three basic questions to not look like I'm avoiding something and going on my way.


If it was a firearm which was stolen then someone should be asking her some questions regarding the careless storage of a firearm.


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## InterCounty (Apr 27, 2010)

Why would anyone refuse to answer any questions? 
You know you are innocent, so you are only helping to eliminate suspects and assist the customer retrieve the stolen item. Whether she was crazy or not is irrelevant. 

I wouldn't be inconvenienced, and would make them come to me ...but why not help out? 

Only a proud ass would refuse. Do the right thing and answer a few questions by helping to solve a crime.




MarkJames said:


> Client reported that somebody must have broken into her house the previous night and installed toilet tank fresheners - the ones that turn the water blue when you flush. .


:laughing::laughing::laughing:
LMAO!
:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Thats friggin great!

We had a few crazys in our time too.
Once we had shown up at a customers house and the lady let us in.
There were three of us and one guy was still at the truck when we rang the bell. Lady opened door and the two of us went inside and started to work.

Five minutes later our third guy came inside - with a floor sanding edger in hand, a dusk mask on his forehead and ear muffs around his neck..

She started freaking out, yelling and screaming "Who are you! What are you doing in my house! I'm going to call the police! AAAHHHH!"

He was dumbfounded , and we had to slowly explain to Mrs.Crazy that he was with us.


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

im not sure if you should talk to the investigator

whats the up side for you?


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

SectorSecurity said:


> If it was a firearm which was stolen then someone should be asking her some questions regarding the careless storage of a firearm.



i see rifles sitting around the houses i work on all the time....it always shocks me how people store their guns...even w/ kids in the house(my dad also just had his rifles sitting in the basement too)...my favorite customer has ar-15's all over the wall behind his desk....instead of wallpaper he decided to use ar-15's



was the gun in her underwear drawer?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

huggytree said:


> i see rifles sitting around the houses i work on all the time....it always shocks me how people store their guns...even w/ kids in the house(my dad also just had his rifles sitting in the basement too)...my favorite customer has ar-15's all over the wall behind his desk....instead of wallpaper he decided to use ar-15's
> 
> 
> 
> was the gun in her underwear drawer?


Well if it was he probably would of found it. :laughing:


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

If you don't get paid, file a police report on her for 'theft of services'


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimelessQuality said:


> If you don't get paid, file a police report on her for 'theft of services'


That doesn't fly everywhere. The cops will just say it's a civil Matter, especially after she claims she shouldn't have to pay.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Talk with an investigator? Why not? - investigators, whether police or private, have phones, as do you. 5 minutes.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

...


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

Why doesn't lowes hire an investigator to see why she left personal belongings out in an area where work was being performed?

This would be a non-issue had she taken care to protect her personal belongings with strangers in her house.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fvck some of you lads are wound pretty tight, if a client had something stolen I wouldn't mind meeting with an investigator to help out...but then again I'm the kind of person who will pull over to help someone change a tire.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Fvck some of you lads are wound pretty tight, if a client had something stolen I wouldn't mind meeting with an investigator to help out...but then again I'm the kind of person who will pull over to help someone change a tire.


Might be some interesting histories here on C.T.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I wouldn't cooperate or talk to anyone but the police.

If a gun was stolen she should've called the police.

Who calls an investigator?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

InterCounty said:


> Why would anyone refuse to answer any questions?


No upside, only downside to it. I've seen police do an on scene, and their notes had some critical stuff exactly backwards from what was actually said.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I used to do a lot of work in apartments and have had this happen a few times before. Since it was a gun the investigator is most likely a police detective. They will come to you to ask questions first, then if they don't like your answers or just want to bust your balls they will ask you to go to the dept. if you say no they will bring you there and keep you there for several hours. One guy at our company who was a wise a$$ found this out, and he was not even on the job when the "theft" occurred.

Many times the "victim" is just looking for money.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

jb4211 said:


> I wouldn't cooperate or talk to anyone but the police.
> 
> If a gun was stolen she should've called the police.
> 
> Who calls an investigator?


I have to agree, dont know how it is in the states, but here in Canada if you lose / have a firearm stolen you better get yourself on the phone with the RCMP not joes detective shop. 

If it was the police I would answer their questions, if its just a PI hired by the HO I would tell him where to go and how to get there.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Fvck some of you lads are wound pretty tight, if a client had something stolen I wouldn't mind meeting with an investigator to help out...but then again I'm the kind of person who will pull over to help someone change a tire.


I wouldn't be against answering questions. But I ain't gonna lose a days pay just to work around their schedule, not to mention gas and vehicle expenses to go to them.

My innocence doesn't make me a charity.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I wouldn't be against answering questions. But I ain't gonna lose a days pay just to work around their schedule, not to mention gas and vehicle expenses to go to them.
> 
> My innocence doesn't make me a charity.


Agreed but I'd answer my phone.


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## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

Well I went to the office of the GC this morning where the investigator met us. It worked out because I had to meet one of the supers for my next job anyway. Turns out the house happened to be on the property of a private university so it was the campus police that came out. He basically asked what I did there, if I moved any furniture, and if I saw any firearms. He was apologizing for having to go through the procedure the whole time, I think he knew it was BS but he just had to go through protocol. One of the first things he said is "thanks for cooperating because legally you don't have to say one word." I told him I knew that and was happy to answer any questions he had. 4 or 5 questions and 3 minutes later I was gone.


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

Kolbym said:


> SNIP......One of the first things he said is "thanks for cooperating because legally you don't have to say one word." I told him I knew that and was happy to answer any questions he had.


Here is some really good free advice, if you ever hear that again from an authority figure you shouldn't say a word. Imagine if he thinks your co worker did it and tells your co worker, "Kolbym met with me yesterday and says he saw you take it." 

See how your involvement and nice gesture could cost you a friend or job?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Kolbym said:


> Turns out the house happened to be on the property of a private university


Awesome - I used to hang out at Randolph Macon when I had a chance, but I'm guessing it's a different one your worked at.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

WBailey1041 said:


> Here is some really good free advice, if you ever hear that again from an authority figure you shouldn't say a word. Imagine if he thinks your co worker did it and tells your co worker, "Kolbym met with me yesterday and says he saw you take it."
> 
> See how your involvement and nice gesture could cost you a friend or job?


Yep, and here's another possibility. Suppose you answer honestly and say you left for lunch from 1 to 2. Then you get questioned again later as it continues and you now remember it was 1:30 to 2:30 that day. Now you're on the short list.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

RangoWA said:


> Yep, and here's another possibility. Suppose you answer honestly and say you left for lunch from 1 to 2. Then you get questioned again later as it continues and you now remember it was 1:30 to 2:30 that day. Now you're on the short list.


And you wouldn't be on the short list if you plead the 5th?


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Inner10 said:


> And you wouldn't be on the short list if you plead the 5th?


Maybe. But they wouldn't have any ammo against you. Like I said, I would answer some basic questions because if a theft occured I feel for the victim and would want to help. However, I am not going to submit a timeline, whereabouts, alibis, etc.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

RangoWA said:


> Maybe. But they wouldn't have any ammo against you. Like I said, I would answer some basic questions because if a theft occured I feel for the victim and would want to help. However, I am not going to submit a timeline, whereabouts, alibis, etc.


It's a fine line between being cooperative and putting oneself at risk. Sometimes professional interviewers use leading and set up questions that can be easily misinterpreted. 

I've never had a police investigator experience but did have an experience when taking care of an elderly parent with a social worker (came by as we were doing in home care and that is what the state demands) and was on the verge of telling her to come back when we had an attorney with us to make sure the questions she was asking would be answered in a manner that wouldn't put us in a misleading, incorrect, and prejudicial light. I booted her out and complained to her supervisors about the incident, they offered apologies but it was a real eye opener as to the potential power of the state vs. the individual.


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc

Here is the best discussion on this subject I have ever seen. It's long but very educational.


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## clydebusa (Apr 27, 2014)

My contracts states that myself or employees will submit to a polygraph test. Also states that if myself or crew is not guilty than the cost of the test and $100.00 per person will be added. Have never had to do it, but it gets the attention of my crew and the customer.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> And you wouldn't be on the short list if you plead the 5th?


I don't think we can plead the 5th here, at least not in a court of law, I believe you are compelled to spill it, however anything incriminating can't be used against you elsewhere. At least thats what I remember from my law class.


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## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

Interesting discussion. I think if I was being accused directly or if there was even a remote chance of me being accused I might have used the 5th...You guys are all correct though, nothing good legally could actually come of me answering the questions...I don't see how anything bad will come out of it either though. And I think I would have raised flags with the GC if I was the only one of at lease 9 people who refused to say anything. I suppose time will tell.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> I don't think we can plead the 5th here, at least not in a court of law, I believe you are compelled to spill it, however anything incriminating can't be used against you elsewhere. At least thats what I remember from my law class.


Correct.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Kolbym said:


> Well I went to the office of the GC this morning where the investigator met us. It worked out because I had to meet one of the supers for my next job anyway. Turns out the house happened to be on the property of a private university so it was the campus police that came out. He basically asked what I did there, if I moved any furniture, *and if I saw any firearms.* He was apologizing for having to go through the procedure the whole time, I think he knew it was BS but he just had to go through protocol. One of the first things he said is "thanks for cooperating because legally you don't have to say one word." I told him I knew that and was happy to answer any questions he had. 4 or 5 questions and 3 minutes later I was gone.




what does that question have in relation to a theft?...


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## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

Homeowner claimed that a gun was stolen.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

SectorSecurity said:


> I don't think we can plead the 5th here, at least not in a court of law, I believe you are compelled to spill it, however anything incriminating can't be used against you elsewhere. At least thats what I remember from my law class.


You can't be compelled to testify against yourself under any circumstance, period. It's also up to you to decide whether or not you want to say anything. You don't even have to say hello.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Well, since the 5th Amendment has been brought up, let's actually LOOK IT UP and SEE WHAT IT SAYS:



> No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Well, since the 5th Amendment has been brought up, let's actually LOOK IT UP and SEE WHAT IT SAYS:


So unless you get a promise of no prosecution against yourself you can't be compelled to witness against yourself.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

_nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,

_This is why one hears the phrase 'I refuse to testify on the grounds that it might incriminate me.

In the U.S. I don't think you can be compelled to testify against yourself even if you receive an offer of immunity from prosecution.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Rio said:


> _nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,
> 
> _This is why one hears the phrase 'I refuse to testify on the grounds that it might incriminate me.
> 
> In the U.S. I don't think you can be compelled to testify against yourself even if you receive an offer of immunity from prosecution.


Not true, this was done when convicting the mob. The courts held that if you are not going to be incriminated you must testify against the boss. Thus was real life case. The hit man was called to testify against the shot caller, but refused because he actually was the guy who did the hits. Once the federal prosecutor offered complete immunity he was compelled to testify by threat of contempt. He actually went to jail for contempt, it beat being killed by the boss.


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## Kolbym (Aug 21, 2012)

This has been a good discussion and I appreciate all the responses. I feel like it's turning into a discussion about what one LEGALLY HAS TO OR DOESN'T HAVE TO DO!! I guess my original question was what is the wise business decision? So I can flex my constitutional muscles... or I can give a little and keep a good relationship. I'm a strong libertarian so no one needs to convince me on the no talking side. But obviously I'm not even a player in this specific case... no way in h*#* they could pin me this alledged crime, guilty or not. So what's to lose by helping the officer fulfil protocol?


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