# Caught partner with hand in cookie jar...



## dreamhomenj (Oct 6, 2013)

Let me give you the back story and I hope some of the more experienced business people can shed some light on how to handle the situation. 

This year I began a new LLC where each person has 50% ownership in the company. My partner had previously been a carpenter who had worked for me in the past and I thought very highly of his work. We were also childhood buddies, which further complicates the situation. 

From the first few jobs we had cash flow issues, but originally based on trying to determine our pricing and how we determined the cost of our jobs. We lost money and I took money out of my pocket to cover the operating expenses. As time goes on we figured out our pricing, but we are still having cashflow issues. As a new business I anticipated some challenges with cashflow and was prepared for this but we are literally down to our last dollar all all the time. 

I decided to dig through all our bank statements and I found lots of little transactions not related to business. I totaled them all up and it is a significant amount of money. As i 

Further more we are in the middle of a very large total gut where there is a discrepancy of a few thousand on monies received from the customer. The customer had previously been his customer but now I also have a good relationship with them as well and asked them to show me the check images from their bank if possible. They found one check for the exact amount of the discrepancy that was written to my partners old business and deposited into his old business account.

I know I should have been keeping a closer eye on the numbers and am kicking myself for this already. I am also sure that if I really dig this check to his old business is not the only one. I want to figure out what if any options I have to recapture any of my money I put into the business and the money he took from the company.


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## Steve'sSon (Aug 16, 2014)

If you have contracts with the customer and the customer is willing to support you in court against your partner than there is little chance you could lose in civil court or whatever its called. 
The judge would rule he'd have to do some sort of reimbursement but probably not enough to make it worth court costs, lawyer fees and days off work fighting him ... but that depends on what kind of numbers you're talking about. 

I don't know how many ways there are out of paying a settlement, but I know people who were never paid it. Sometimes it just boils down to trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. 

Do you think he still has the money? If so get some advice from a lawyer right away to see if a court can place a hold on the money or something (I have no idea) so he can't spend it till after the ruling. 

If it were me I wouldn't approach him about it till after you have the evidence neatly documented and support from your customer - then I'd give him the option of coming clean and returning the money without a nasty court battle. I'd involve a lawyer in this process too and make sure the out of court settlement is binding and all.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Can't believe some of the personal things people share online for the whole world to read.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Yet another example of why partnerships are almost always a bad idea...

Good luck with getting your money back. Unless you're talking under $5k I'd just get the job done, cut ties, and chalk one up to the school of hard knocks.

Partnerships = Bad Idea 

People are just to greedy. It just doesn't work.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

If there is any money left in the account you politely take back what your partner took and you cut your relationship. I had the same problem 40 years ago with an employee who I thought was a best friend. He did a job, took only $15 in cash from a customer and I fired him without giving the situation a 2nd thought. When it comes to stealing and lying there should be a zero tolerance policy. My most popular speech to all employees and especially new employees is I have zero tolerance for lying and stealing. There is no 2nd chance because there are two types of people; those who will lie and/or steal and those who won't. I am not god and I can't turn snakes into something good. And...don't let it bother you because it is not your fault and it happens every day. Dealing with stealing is just a part of running a business and nothing we should get emotional about. Never feel guilty about confronting your partner because in order to make the books transparent to each partner it is normal for partners to question each other in a polite way.


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

I have a hard time understanding how it's enough money in any small business to support a business and two families.

Years ago my uncle and another man owned a very large , successful construction company here in our county. They built 75% of all the houses being built around. They owned tractor and trailers, bull dozers, trucks, lifts, property, etc. They were selling houses faster than they could build them.

My uncle never took a dime out of the company, They were paying for everything as they bought it.

At 42 years old, he decided to sale off his half of the company and RETIRE. 

Long story, short, when they settled up, my uncle owed him money! 

Instead of retiring and 'traveling' the world.....he drove 18 miles and went back to work laying brick for my dad. :whistling


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

I would think you would be able to talk to your life long buddy who is your partner about this before bothering to ask what you should do about it...

It's obvious isn't it? Talk to your partner... better to find out now that you are not suited to be together in business than when you are 10's of thousands in the hole and lost a life-long buddy over money... whether legit or not...


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

People don't suppose to screw over each other. Friends don't suppose to screw over each other. Sounds like 'life long buddy' isn't to good of a buddy.

It's probably time to dissolve your partnership and fly solo.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

If the partnership is a legal entity, press embezzlement charges, and go for court ordered restitution as part of the sentence. It's the ONLY way to get your money back.

Friends and family count on their embezzling being over looked - they figure you won't prosecute, and they know you can't force them to pay it back.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

KAP said:


> I would think you would be able to talk to your life long buddy who is your partner about this before bothering to ask what you should do about it...
> 
> It's obvious isn't it? Talk to your partner... better to find out now that you are not suited to be together in business than when you are 10's of thousands in the hole and lost a life-long buddy over money... whether legit or not...


Stay in business with an embezzler? I don't think so.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I think you need professional legal counsel, not advice from an internet forum. :blink:








Delta


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

pcplumber said:


> If there is any money left in the account you politely take back what your partner took and you cut your relationship. I had the same problem 40 years ago with an employee who I thought was a best friend. He did a job, took only $15 in cash from a customer and I fired him without giving the situation a 2nd thought. When it comes to stealing and lying there should be a zero tolerance policy. My most popular speech to all employees and especially new employees is I have zero tolerance for lying and stealing. There is no 2nd chance because there are two types of people; those who will lie and/or steal and those who won't. I am not god and I can't turn snakes into something good. And...don't let it bother you because it is not your fault and it happens every day. Dealing with stealing is just a part of running a business and nothing we should get emotional about. Never feel guilty about confronting your partner because in order to make the books transparent to each partner it is normal for partners to question each other in a polite way.


I like that policy. :thumbup: Gonna hold onto that one.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> Stay in business with an embezzler? I don't think so.


I think you missed the rest of the post... *"better to find out now that you are not suited to be together in business than when you are 10's of thousands in the hole and lost a life-long buddy over money..."*

That said, remember, you are only hearing one side of the story...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

brickhook said:


> I have a hard time understanding how it's enough money in any small business to support a business and two families.
> 
> Years ago my uncle and another man owned a very large , successful construction company here in our county. They built 75% of all the houses being built around. They owned tractor and trailers, bull dozers, trucks, lifts, property, etc. They were selling houses faster than they could build them.
> 
> ...


I dont understand how people dont get it. If a business is run properly everyone is salaried for their position in the company. When my dad and I first partnered up I paid my salary doing carpentry, now its for running projects. At least in our company, no one is getting an owners salary for managing the company. We all have a job that would have to be performed by an employee if not a partner. If we down size, bag back up, ect... 

The profit is not distributed but once or twice a year, no one in our company counts on profit to pay our household bills, we pay our selves a good salary, what we pay an employee to do that job. 

Most independent business owners see the profit as theirs and take it all the time, and many live on the profit instead of a salary. Thats where the difference between someone who is an independent and wants to an independent and a guy like me, who wants a company. To do that, I believe you have to view your self as an employee of that company. 

JMPO, your uncle didnt know or else didnt do what I just said when he had his company. We are 6 years old, we have made a profit every year, when we do twice the gross as the year before, we have banked twice the net. We use the same system, and are diciplined about it, whether we are blowing and going or barely making it, my day to day lifestyle doesnt change. 

OP. Drop the partner, and file suit for your money if I was you. He is an embezzler. I would probably bring it up to him and find out what was going on, but id still go get my money back and drop him regardless.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Profit is not what you pay yourself, it's what you pay your company...

End of year bonuses are only considered when all other considerations are addressed (i.e. - capital reserves, emergency fund, equipment, etc.)...


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

Jaws said:


> I dont understand how people dont get it. If a business is run properly everyone is salaried for their position in the company. When my dad and I first partnered up I paid my salary doing carpentry, now its for running projects. At least in our company, no one is getting an owners salary for managing the company. We all have a job that would have to be performed by an employee if not a partner. If we down size, bag back up, ect...
> 
> The profit is not distributed but once or twice a year, no one in our company counts on profit to pay our household bills, we pay our selves a good salary, what we pay an employee to do that job.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you're saying. The story about my uncle was back in the early '70s. the only contract they had was their word. They went in to business as good friends. And he had money going in , so he was putting everything back in the business trying to grow it. His partner turned out to be a crook. Hard lesson learned.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

One thing that's difficult in a partnership like this is when one person gets disgruntled because they think that they are doing more work or that their role is more important, skimming off the top is somehow justified in their mind. 

From what I've seen, the only way that business partnerships work is when neither party has to depend on the business to survive. If my cousin and I had a lemonade stand, neither one of us would be interested in the money other than our salaries or our shares of the profits because our current incomes far exceed what a lemonade stand can produce.

Sure, we both want our "cut" because of the time and effort invested but the money that we make off of this venture isn't going to be the difference between whether I can make my mortgage payment or if he can put his kids through private school.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Wow


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## cromeenslawfirm (Aug 18, 2014)

Kinds of things actually happen a lot more often than people care to admit. I would recommend seeking legal counsel if you are unable to reach an agreement between the two of you. I would say look for a business and corporate attorney in your area. It's really sad how people can be. 

Here in Houston we have a lawyer referral service that people can call to be sent to an attorney that can assist them .
http://www.njsba.com/for-the-public/lawyer-referral-service.html


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## dreamhomenj (Oct 6, 2013)

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to read and give some advice. It is very embarrassing to admit this has happened and putting it in writing and hearing other opinions helps to clarify the situation and 

We are meeting to go over all the expenses, missing monies and the check that went to wrong account. 

He claims that he wrote a check back to the company that went to him, but waiting on our bank to confirm or deny this. 

After our meeting I will have a better handle on how to go forward, I will update as it plays out


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Don't know if this has been addressed.
> 
> How on God's green earth can you just now be aware of this? How can complete payment draws go unnoticed? Did you not pay attention to the money going in and out. If your that big of a company where's your bookkeeper? I am pretty small as a company and I even have a bookkeeper. *A bookkeeper would and should of been on top of that chit.*


Depends - on if the bookkeeper was a wifey...:whistling


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Depends - on if the bookkeeper was a wifey...:whistling


Then they conspired to commit embezzlement.


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## dreamhomenj (Oct 6, 2013)

We ended up doing a way larger work volume then originally planned for and time that was supposed to be spent doing office work was spent in the field rather then in the office. Not that it makes it acceptable but we had money coming and going from lots of different jobs and not enough tracking. We should have hired a part time book keeper, this would have been caught much sooner, however this is someone that was a friend, and we had worked together on projects before. 
After the first quarter I tried to level everything out and had a hard time but we were not that far off, and after 2nd quarter I made time to really go through everything, and it became clear that we were missing cash.


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## JAH (Jul 27, 2014)

The seeds of distrust have been sown. Weather it was a accident or premeditated your partnership will fail now. Finish the job, cut ties and move on.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

At least you know who and what he is, now. I'll bet you anything he's justified the expenses. Does he do drugs, or has he in the past?


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> At least you know who and what he is, now. I'll bet you anything he's justified the expenses. Does he do drugs, or has he in the past?


More importantly is he doing your drugs right now?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Metro M & L said:


> More importantly is he doing your drugs right now?


:laughing:


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Don't know if this has been addressed.
> 
> How on God's green earth can you just now be aware of this? How can complete payment draws go unnoticed? Did you not pay attention to the money going in and out. If your that big of a company where's your bookkeeper? I am pretty small as a company and I even have a bookkeeper. A bookkeeper would and should of been on top of that chit.


The Dr. that I know did not catch it because the bookkeeper taking orders from the guy who was stealing. My customer admitted he was naive and should have been more involved. 

I also know of a contractor who lost over $400k in 5 years to his bookkeeper, he had no idea what was going on not a clue. He lost $100k from his petty cash account, who the hell has more than $100k in a petty cash account? Somebody who now wishes they never called the police, the IRS got involved.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My bookkeeper has the Passcodes to all my accounts and has been with me for 11 years. She's a great person. Although I don't allow her to do my taxes even though she's more then capable. I send her yearly work to my accountant to check her for mistakes. It's kind of a check and balance system.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Regarding embezzling, there's a critical size of company below which it's too expensive to set up forensic accounting systems. These systems break up the various functions (billing, contracts, purchasing, shipping and receiving) so that 2 or more different people would have to be in on the embezzling. An exception to that are things like company gas cards. It may not be traditional embezzling, but letting friends in the company run up big gas card bills can be done by whoever reviews these. An outside auditor would catch it, but ideally you want to be set up to catch things more or less real time.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I was taught in accounting in college that the bookkeeper is not allowed to write/sign checks. All they do is add numbers and tell you whether you balance or not.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Metro M & L said:


> I was taught in accounting in college that the bookkeeper is not allowed to write/sign checks. All they do is add numbers and tell you whether you balance or not.


I do all my own books because I've had several secretaries, accounts, CPA's and every one made major mistakes. I don't make mistakes and when doing my own book I get a better understanding and feeling for what is happening and where and when changes need to be made. Doing your own books also keeps unwanted hands out of the cookie jar. I am in full control and take full responsibility for everything good and bad that happens in my business.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Metro M & L said:


> I was taught in accounting in college that the bookkeeper is not allowed to write/sign checks. All they do is add numbers and tell you whether you balance or not.


My bookkeeper doesn't have check writing authority, however she needs the keys to my accounts so she can download all the data into my software and categorize everything accordingly


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Sounds like he screwed his friends because his enemies were never around!

Went through something similar. Cut ties now...he will do it again!!!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

pcplumber said:


> I do all my own books because I've had several secretaries, accounts, CPA's and every one made major mistakes. I don't make mistakes and when doing my own book I get a better understanding and feeling for what is happening and where and when changes need to be made. Doing your own books also keeps unwanted hands out of the cookie jar. I am in full control and take full responsibility for everything good and bad that happens in my business.


None of this matters if you have the right bookkeeper. My bookkeeper has been keeping books as long as I've been a carpenter. She pays for herself each and every year.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> None of this matters if you have the right bookkeeper. My bookkeeper has been keeping books as long as I've been a carpenter. She pays for herself each and every year.


I understand most contractors philosophies when they say they prefer to give the bookkeeping to someone else and focus on the construction. I can write for a week explaining the pros and cons of having someone else do your books (even your wife). I don't even let my wife touch my books. I like having full control of everything and I don't like having to get books ready to deliver to a book keeper when it takes only a few more minutes to enter the records in a database. Then, it always took more of my personal time to have to constantly communicate with book keepers to straighten out issues.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

pcplumber said:


> I understand most contractors philosophies when they say they prefer to give the bookkeeping to someone else and focus on the construction. I can write for a week explaining the pros and cons of having someone else do your books (even your wife). I don't even let my wife touch my books. I like having full control of everything and I don't like having to get books ready to deliver to a book keeper when it takes only a few more minutes to enter the records in a database. Then, it always took more of my personal time to have to constantly communicate with book keepers to straighten out issues.


Nothing to it, I just send her an accountants copy from quick books she fixes all my fvck ups and sends it back in good order. I haven't seen her in months the last time I even spoke to her, must of been a couple months ago. 

This is what happens when you've worked together for 11 years. She also logs into my accounts and she can download all my spending directly into quick books. At the end of the year I get one sheet of paper from her that reflects the whole year to give to my accountant. She's very good at what she does. 

By the way my wife has nothing to do with my business. All she knows is I build chit. That's about it.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> Nothing to it, I just send her an accountants copy from quick books she fixes all my fvck ups and sends it back in good order. I haven't seen her in months the last time I even spoke to her, must of been a couple months ago.
> 
> This is what happens when you've worked together for 11 years. She also logs into my accounts and she can download all my spending directly into quick books. At the end of the year I get one sheet of paper from her that reflects the whole year to give to my accountant. She's very good at what she does.
> 
> By the way my wife has nothing to do with my business. All she knows is I build chit. That's about it.


I believe you 100%. I believe that you are 100% satisfied and may have never had a problem with your records or taxes. Maybe, I am a strange duck because I cannot and will not pay someone and I cannot give control to someone for something that I can do for free, something I have better control of, something I can do better and something I can do faster.

I'm running three separate businesses with about 600 bank transactions monthly. I enjoy, in many ways, looking over the books that I personally generate and I like to know the nuts and bolts. I like to constantly develop new systems to analyze my cash flow to make sure I don't bury myself in the near or distant future. I have to know every detail on a daily basis and I don't trust nor have the patience to rely on someone as far down the ladder as a book keeper in respect to assisting me with money management and cash flow. 

My point to all this is; perhaps, if the person who started this thread had a more hands-on and daily involvement with his books his partner would not have had his hand in the cookie jar. 

As someone recently stated (maybe you), book keepers only add numbers and as far as I'm concerned that is not much help in regard to managing a business. I personally feel that I have better control and a better understanding when I am hands-on in every area.

"If it is not broken then don't fix it!" I agree that having a book keeper is the best thing for a very high percent of contractors.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Bookkeepers do not normally assist anyone with money management. It's about categorizing and matching transactions. separating business from personal expenses. Has absolutely nothing to do with managing spending. Nor do they even give a chit how you spend it or how much cash flow you have.

Just thought I would make that correction, if you were referring to me. Because you quoted my post this is my assumption.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Really, there are a few things going on in this thread. There's the original post, and the problems he had would normally (in a large business) be minimized by having good systems for forensic accounting.

Then there is the more or less real time financial management systems, which may include reports, charts, etc of the numbers and ratios you're tracking for managing your business. For a small company, it may include all the income and expense detail - it's whatever level of detail the person who is doing the financial management wants. 

The third piece is "closing the books", that is, getting everything input correctly, categorized correctly, checking that everything balances, etc, typically for quarterly taxes. This could be done weekly or monthly as well, it's whatever works best for you.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Tell him that you will buy him out for the amount of his discretion, move on and finish the job without asking the HO to get legally involved in any way.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> Bookkeepers do not normally assist anyone with money management. It's about categorizing and matching transactions. separating business from personal expenses. Has absolutely nothing to do with managing spending. Nor do they even give a chit how you spend it or how much cash flow you have.
> 
> Just thought I would make that correction, if you were referring to me. Because you quoted my post this is my assumption.


I agree with you!


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Spencer said:


> Yet another example of why partnerships are almost always a bad idea...
> 
> Good luck with getting your money back. Unless you're talking under $5k I'd just get the job done, cut ties, and chalk one up to the school of hard knocks.
> 
> ...


My accountant equates Greed with a disease. He says some have a terminal case. I agree.

Greed has torn families apart, ruined the best of friendships and I could go on and on.

I don't know how you even know if you have the disease. I'm pretty sure it creeps up on you and before you know it, it's too late. I don't know of a cure. I just hope I never get it. Who knows, I may already have have it.

I try to stay cognizant of my relationship with greed. I really do. I deal with subs who I know have a terminal case. But, who am I, what do I know.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> My accountant equates Greed with a disease. He says some have a terminal case. I agree.
> 
> Greed has torn families apart, ruined the best of friendships and I could go on and on.
> 
> ...


I look at making money like sports, it's great to win but you have to pay by the rules. Can't cheat and steal. Nothing like earning money people are happy to give you.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Greed is good. There are actual character flaws that are bad, whether the person is greedy or not, but coupled with greed can be a big problem. I'm with Cali - I think greed gets a bad rap because of the person's other character flaws.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Many people misuse the words and interpret an ambitious person as greedy . Just because a person loves to earn money does not mean he (or she) is greedy. I love to earn money the same as people love to play sports. If I am going to get out of bed to work I may as well do the best I can to make the most money I can. Why work the same number of hours and settle for less when you have the potential earn more.

We don't live in an ideal world. If we did live in an ideal every one would be as rich as Bill Gates. Since we do not live in an ideal world I say almost every day that everything does not come to fruition as planned. Therefore, if you have a goal to earn $1 million for your retirement you had better shoot for $2 million. Since we have these uncertain non-ideal conditions the people shooting for the $2 million can appear to be greedy, but I call them ambitious.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I think a few of you are missing the meaning of greed.

To give you a perfect example of greed: greed is when you as a contractor know your numbers, you charge $100.00 per hour ever day of the yr. You do great work, you're always busy. Everyone is happy.

Now, a hurricane hits. People's homes are in desperate need of repair. You suddenly double your hourly rate because of GREED! Charge what the market will bear. Just business, right??? 

Or, there's a father who is out of work. He's willing to dig ditches for you at $10.00 an hour. That's the going rate for that job and any laborer. Your busy, lots of work, business couldn't be better. He works for you for two yrs, great employee no issues. Then you get sick with greed and replace him with someone who will work for $7.00. He costs 3 bucks less. Just business, right??

You just finished building a deck for a customer. The job was profitable. You're packing up and about to leave. The elderly woman neighbor who lives next store comes out and desperately explains how her porch light isn't working and asks if you can take a look. In less that 3 minutes you determine that the bulb is blown and replaced it. She asks what she owe's. You tell her $25.00, which she would be more than happy to give you because she ecstatic that her light is now working. You're a hero. Just business, right???

I could go on and on with real life examples of what I call greed.

Greed is not good.
Integrity is good.
Ambition is good.
Honesty is good.
Being a hard worker is good.
Being a decent human being is good.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

jb4211 said:


> I think a few of you are missing the meaning of greed.


I'm not. Greed has an inherent tie to what someone needs. If everyone only acquired what they needed, this world would really bite. 

So, in your view a world where every one acquires just what they need (nobody is greedy) but really bites is better than one where people acquire what they can based on what people are willing to pay for their services and what wage people are willing to work for? 

That doesn't even make sense.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Greed is often portrayed these days as excess and excess is something you don't have.


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## GTX63 (Sep 9, 2011)

I think I'd find out as much as I could before the sit down. It is better to know the answers to as many of your questions as possible before you ask them, since he will likely only admit to what you currently know or can prove. I'd also agree that the relationship, at least in the business sense, is beyond repair. In lieu of him paying back the money or pressing charges, just have him forfeit ownership; if not, then dissolve the LLC.
You just paid for very expensive lessons-hope you learn from it.


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## clydebusa (Apr 27, 2014)

Good luck and hope it all works out!


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

hdavis said:


> I'm not. Greed has an inherent tie to what someone needs. If everyone only acquired what they needed, this world would really bite.
> 
> So, in your view a world where every one acquires just what they need (nobody is greedy) but really bites is better than one where people acquire what they can based on what people are willing to pay for their services and what wage people are willing to work for?
> 
> That doesn't even make sense.


What didn't make sense is your post. I have no clue what point you're trying to convey


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

jb4211 said:


> What didn't make sense is your post. I have no clue what point you're trying to convey


A world where people acquired only what they needed would svck. You don't get beyond hunter-gatherer living without greed - basic needs are fulfilled in maybe 4 hours a day for hunter gatherers.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> What didn't make sense is your post. I have no clue what point you're trying to convey


I think what he is trying to convey is that if people only bought what they needed and ignored what they wanted (which would be considered greed as it is beyond what you need), things would suck for a whole lot of people as less people would be employed and money pies would not grow, there would be no investment, etc...

Is it greedy for a family to want to buy a house instead of rents or buy a larger house? Is it greedy to buy a new car when a used one would serve the purpose?

Or is it greedy to keep the money you would have spent on either of them thus withholding it from the market which employs people?

I think most people have a sense of what actual greed is... 

It's a CEO taking his bonus while cutting and/or eliminating employee bonuses... there are countless examples...


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I just bought my wife a Mercedes ML350, so I guess I am one of those "greedy" SOB's:jester:

Getting back to the original post....this is so indicative of why many tradesmen--regardless of skill--make poor businessmen. Way back when, I had a partner who held the license (I have all the licenses myself now), and, he was a lazy, useless POS who only took money out and never put any in. That relationship lasted less than a year. 

Rather than shelling out money to lawyers and court fees, I would get your ducks in a row as far as all the accounting of accounts payable and accounts receivable. How much came in to date and how much went out to date. Who in your partnership got paid and/or withdrew monies and how much. 

Once you have that and you can prove that your partner took out funds or cashed checks to himself without letting you know, then simply have a meeting, show him the money in and money out documents and amounts. Then tell him that the relationship is not working out (of course you could do this regardless of the money situation).....and that the partnership is ended now. If he owes the company (ie: you) money, you have to show exactly how much and then deadline for paying it. 

Face it, the relationship is over. Time to settle up and move on.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Greed has nothing to do with income or salary. If you are good at what you do, the best perhaps, you will become busy. The busier you become the more money you will EARN. The more money you earn, the more you will begin to enjoy more of what life has to offer: homes, fancy vacations, cars, etc., etc. None of which makes you greedy. IMO. 

As your taste for the finger things in life increases so must your hourly rate in order to keep pace with those WANTS. Where you used to charge $25 per hour, now you must charge $125 per hour. Again, not greedy. You're in high demand and cannot afford to work for less.

But once you start screwing over your employees, start price gouging due to someone's misfortune, and the examples I mentioned above...that is greed IMO.

Why you think buying a car makes you greedy is beyond me. It only makes you more fortunate than someone you cannot afford a car. Nothing more. Nothing less.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> Greed has nothing to do with income or salary. If you are good at what you do, the best perhaps, you will become busy. The busier you become the more money you will EARN. The more money you earn, the more you will begin to enjoy more of what life has to offer: homes, fancy vacations, cars, etc., etc. None of which makes you greedy. IMO.
> 
> As your taste for the finger things in life increases so must your hourly rate in order to keep pace with those WANTS. Where you used to charge $25 per hour, now you must charge $125 per hour. Again, not greedy. You're in high demand and cannot afford to work for less.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but the same goes for the CEO... so greed is as greed does...

But, if your needs are being met, it is your wants that are propelling you towards the finer things in life... You don't HAVE to have those things... you want to have to those things... and from the person making minimum wage's perspective, that is greed just as the CEO's or the doctors is for most everyone else...


Trying to qualify it universally rarely fits, which is why I used the examples I did...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KAP said:


> Yeah, but the same goes for the CEO... so greed is as greed does...
> 
> But, if your needs are being met, it is your wants that are propelling you towards the finer things in life... You don't HAVE to have those things... you want to have to those things... and from the person making minimum wage's perspective, that is greed just as the CEO's or the doctors is for most everyone else...
> 
> ...


Yeah, I call it profits


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I honestly don't get the correlation between GREED & WANTS. It makes entirely no sense. Zero. Nadda. Zilch.

If that were the case, everyone would be labeled greedy because no one is living in a cave these days. There are no hunters & gathers in today's society. I have indoor plumbing. Does that make me greedy? Hardly.

Be realistic, seriously. Damn


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> I honestly don't get the correlation between GREED & WANTS. It makes entirely no sense. Zero. Nadda. Zilch.
> 
> If that were the case, everyone would be labeled greedy because no one is living in a cave these days. There are no hunters & gathers in today's society. I have indoor plumbing. Does that make me greedy? Hardly.
> 
> Be realistic, seriously. Damn


Yes it makes you greedy because you don't need indoor plumbing.


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