# Electrician suing homeowner



## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

I'm a licensed electrican and back in Jan. I was finishing up a new home for a couple. We had about 2 days work left when the owner and I got into it over a 3way switch that he said I should have installed during the rough in stage. When he asked if there was a 3way on this particular light I said no. He started getting irrate and I politley explained to him that we had walked through the entire house together during rough in and marked everything that he asked for. He got ever madder and went to accusing me of not doing my job and telling me what a bad electrican I was. I tried explaining my side and he would have none of it, constantly shaking his head. I couldn't reason with this guy. I loaded up my tools and told him that I was leaving and would be back when he calmed down. The way it was headed that seemed to be the best thing to do. He got madder and started in on me again about not being a good electrican and told me that if I left don't come back. 

I have a affidavid of lein filed against him and filed a claim in small claims court for $5500. He was served and I was sent paperwork, as was the justice of the peace from a lawyer showing his intention or threat to countersue me siting fraud, default on contract etc. It stated on the papers that the suit was now beyond the legal jurisdiction of small claims which is $10,000 because he is seaking damages in excess of $10,000. No exact amount just in excess of $10,000. I was told that he may be just stalling trying to keep it out of small claims and if he had a legitimate claim he would have come forth sooner. All I did was walk of the job due to his verbal attacks. I never said I wasn't coming back. He just told me if I left don't come back. If he had called and said come back and finish I would have. I work for 4 contractors and have never walked off a job or been told to leave. A few facts. This guy had no contractor. He subbed it all out himself. He has no loan on the home, he paid cash. There was no detailed electrical plans on the home. He gave me a blank floorplan of a 6,000 sq. ft. home and told me to draw in the electrical and give him a bid on that. Lastly, we have no signed contract betweeen us. I gave him a bid on what I drawed in and he accepted it. What do you think?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Cirus said:


> .......... What do you think?


 
I think:

1. You made your bed, now you're complaining you're being forced to lie in it.
2. You should have never started the job without a written contract and an electrical plan.
3. You need a lawyer, not an on-line forum.
4. You need to consider this Lesson #1 in Contracting in the School of Hard Knocks.
5. Is the cost of not putting in that 3-way worth the headache, hassle, trouble and monetary expense, not to mention the damage to your reputation?


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## deckman22 (Oct 20, 2007)

You walked off a job cause of a three-way switch? I'd probably would have given him his 3-way & finished the job, but I'm not an electrician. 

Never do work without a contract, period, I don't care what trade you're in that's rule #1.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

I couldn't give him a 3way switch because it was a 2 story and under the second floor. If it had been to where I could have crawled in the attic and added the switch you bet I would have. I didn't walk off because of a switch. I left because of his personal attacks. the switch is just what started the whole thing. The guy was getting so irrate that if i hadn't left we might have come to blows. I won't stand there and be accused of not doing my job and be degraded. Walking off and neutralizing the situation is alot better than one or both of us going to jail. you think?


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Do yourself a favor...make peace with the guy, eat a little crow, and give him the switch and whatever else is bothering him. Even if you have to send another electrician to do it....you will make out in the long run...:thumbsup:


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

Cirus said:


> ..... I won't stand there and be accused of not doing my job and be degraded. Walking off and neutralizing the situation is alot better than one or both of us going to jail. you think?



There are other ways to de-escalate a situation, besides walking off. 

Walking off should be your very, very - last resort. If you walk off, you should have a contract, and solid basis/grounds for walking off, - to back you up.

You walked off, wihout a contract, and did so voluntarily. That is the key point.

BTW - Coming to blows = Should never happen. If it were to come to that. You take the first blow from the other guy (hopefully with a witness present)= and sue his a$$.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

JonM said:


> Do yourself a favor...make peace with the guy, eat a little crow, and give him the switch and whatever else is bothering him. Even if you have to send another electrician to do it....you will make out in the long run...:thumbsup:


Thats sound advice and I agree. But that was January and this is October. Like I said earlier we were about 2 days out from finishing. He had his HVAC man, who is also a electrican go in there and finish up. Just kitchen appliances and a few fixtures was all that was left. You other guys are right. I should have had a contract and a detailed plan. Do I regret not getting paid? You bet. Do I regret walking off? Hell no! This guy needs to learn how to talk to people. I'll definitely do things differently next time but I'm not going to let someone degrade me.


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## PMbrian (Sep 25, 2009)

*Are you a licensed contractor? :shifty:You should have known better than to not have a written contract. It’ll likely cost you.

Where your plans submitted to the county and approved? If they are part of the permit package you should have at least that to stand on.

Without a contract he can say he supplied all the wire, directed you to install, only had you there for one day of labor pretty much anything he wants, he can claim anything. He can say he directed you to install the 3 way and it is you against him. The Judge will likely side with the Owner because Contractors are considered the professionals not Owners.

I would get an attorney.
*


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Cirus said:


> .......He had his HVAC man, who is also a electrican go in there and finish up. ............


Now you also have liability, licensing, permit and warranty issues.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I would use the enter key and make some paragraphs.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

AtlanticWBConst said:


> There are other ways to de-escalate a situation, besides walking off.
> 
> Walking off should be your very, very - last resort. If you walk off, you should have a contract, and solid basis/grounds for walking off, - to back you up.
> 
> ...


I've been doing electrical work for along time but I've never been confronted with a situation like this. I was surprised at his reaction when I told him about not having a switch. He instantly got hostile and wouldn't listen to anything I said. Everytime i opened my mouth he went to shaking his head in disagrement. I gave up.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

PMbrian said:


> *Are you a licensed contractor? :shifty:You should have known better than to not have a written contract. It’ll likely cost you.*
> 
> *Where your plans submitted to the county and approved? If they are part of the permit package you should have at least that to stand on.*
> 
> ...


Yes I'm licensed and in Texas. The home was built in a rural area outside the city limits. There are no permits, inspections in this county and most counties in Texas unless your near a larger city.


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## PMbrian (Sep 25, 2009)

*Wow- sounds like heaven, no permits, no inspections. :clap:*
*Best of luck with this.*


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Sounds to me like he baited you and you fell for it, - - some people make it an artform to find an excuse to 'get mad' at those who they owe money to, - - unfortunately the homeowners automatically tend to get favored in these situations. Contractors are favored only as a 'fall-guy' species . . .


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Wow, shaking his head in disagreement! No wonder you were scared it would come to blows!

The deal breaker you have is you abandoned the job. As soon as you abandon the job you're screwed. If the customer stopped work or told you to leave its a totally different thing then a contractor abandoning the job.

Follow through on your small claims case and see how it turns out, you don't have an open and shut case because you abandoned the job and you have no contract, but you never know how it might turn out, at worst you might get some of your money.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Sounds to me like your asking us to pat you on the back and say, "Atta boy! Go get 'im!" But the facts of the matter are, he found a weak spot and he apparently took advantage of it. At this point, the damage is done. The best you can hope for is to get some of what you're owed. Chalk it up to experience, find a contract to use......... and have a lawyer review it first.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

I'll definitely do things different next. 99% of the work I do is for contractors that I have worked for for years. Some of them knew me as a kid so I never worry about them. Your right, he baited me and I fell for it. 
This guy is such a nut that about a week after I left he called and left me a message wanting to know if i had the trim out parts to his bathroom exhaust fans! He needed them! He refuses to pay me and he wants me to give him something! I learned my lesson.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Sounds to me like your asking us to pat you on the back and say, "Atta boy! Go get 'im!" But the facts of the matter are, he found a weak spot and he apparently took advantage of it. At this point, the damage is done. The best you can hope for is to get some of what you're owed. Chalk it up to experience, find a contract to use......... and have a lawyer review it first.


I'm not asking you for crap buddy. I'm simply telling my story and seeing if anyone else out there has been in the same boat. I'm looking for advice. If I want sarcasm I'll go talk to the homeowner.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

*Texas = Wild, Wild,... Wide West*

Let me see... where Mr. Bush stays, every citizen/HO get MAXIMUM protection:

1. You can shoot-to-kill anyone enter the home or steal your stuff?

2. You can declare bankruptcy and STILL can keep the house you live in;

3. You can build houses/mansions with NO permit, no inspections in rural but RICH counties? and then..

4. You can screw contractors with no license, no permit, no inspections, etc.. to work in these counties?? Uh oh.. no good :shutup:

M I rite?? :whistling


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

that just about sums it up!


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

First of all, this thread reads like a lobbying effort to install building inspections and Licensing regulations in an area without any.

Given there are not any and you had no approved drawings or an approved shop drawing you were working without a net beyond a good working relationship. Once it got hostile your safety net was seriously compromised. As you have found out.

At this point several months later, I'm not sure you have much hope of actually applying a mechanics lien. Not sure about Texas but here your window has closed.

I can't even believe I'm about to say this but, Dude you need to talk to a Lawyer.

One last word of advise. Instead of making this guy wrong with every conversation you have with this, focus your attention on *your own *actions that *you* took to get to this sad point. Focus on what *you* could have done for a more acceptable outcome. In short take responsibility for it, and find out what your options are. Make a move from there.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

FWIW, 3-ways are not required _anywhere_.:thumbsup:


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

This is definitely a learning experience. I know nothing of the law and that is why I got screwed. I had a bad feeling about this guy when I first talked to him and something told me to not mess with him but work was slow and the wife was in nursing school and I wanted to stay busy. I should have went with my instincts. It always worked out for me before when I did.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

480sparky said:


> FWIW, 3-ways are not required _anywhere_.:thumbsup:


Exactly, but I tried telling him that and he said I should have known. He said any good electrician would know that.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

That guy is very mean!!... Just to make sure you don't come back to his house (because *he had said so*).. or you will see what you don't want to see??.. (i.e., dog, gun, etc.) :whistling


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Cirus said:


> This is definitely a learning experience. I know nothing of the law and that is why I got screwed. I had a bad feeling about this guy when I first talked to him and something told me to not mess with him but work was slow and the wife was in nursing school and I wanted to stay busy. I should have went with my instincts. It always worked out for me before when I did.


If that is a response to my post, that is a good start.

But I'll bet my left nut that there were a dozen more things you could have done once the 3 way thing came up that would have the money in your account.

Just sayin


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> First of all, this thread reads like a lobbying effort to install building inspections and Licensing regulations in an area without any.
> 
> Given there are not any and you had no approved drawings or an approved shop drawing you were working without a net beyond a good working relationship. Once it got hostile your safety net was seriously compromised. As you have found out.
> 
> ...


I knew what I was getting into when I walked off but he wouldn't let up. I did what I thought best at the time. As far as contracts and the legal aspect of it I will definitely do it different next time.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> If that is a response to my post, that is a good start.
> 
> But I'll bet my left nut that there were a dozen more things you could have done once the 3 way thing came up that would have the money in your account.
> 
> Just sayin


Your probably right but in the heat of the moment and the lack of experience I had dealing with nuts I was doomed. I've had customers I've worked for for years that keep calling back, one guy I've wired 3 homes for him in the last 10 years. The sad thing is he got off lite during the confrontation with me. My father started this business in 1969 and I would have hated to see what would have happened had this guy mouthed him like that. I've would have had to bail him out. You just didn't talk to him like that.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

Next time, go into every contract (whether GC or HO) KNOWING you will get screwed and this case WILL end up in front of a judge.

Take that as your basis and it will completely change your perspective.

CONTRACTor 

That's why we're around! :thumbsup:

You are also an electrical CONTRACTor :clap:

Giddy up Texan! You're well on your way to discovering the wonderful world of change orders, budget revisions, email, pictures, site reports, contracts, cd's and every thing else that makes the contractor world go 'round!


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

Heritage said:


> Next time, go into every contract (whether GC or HO) KNOWING you will get screwed and this case WILL end up in front of a judge.
> 
> Take that as your basis and it will completely change your perspective.
> 
> ...


It won't happen again trust me. Where would I go to get a legal and binding contract drawn up? A lawyer?


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

The bad thing about Texas is electricians are state licensed but we have no one to enforce it. After you leave the city limits there are very few counties that have inspections. When you do a job out in the country there are no inspections, no one demanding to see your license, nothing. You can work all you want in the country and report to no one. The homeowner can even have the power turned on without inspection. At least in a city you have the leverage of inspection on your side. No money, no inspection, no power.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Cirus said:


> .........and I wanted to stay busy. ............


'Staying busy' does not mean 'making money'.



Cirus said:


> It won't happen again trust me. Where would I go to get a legal and binding contract drawn up? A lawyer?


Check your email.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

480sparky said:


> 'Staying busy' does not mean 'making money'.
> 
> 
> 
> Check your email.


Got it. Many thanks. The bad part about the area I live in is most of the other small electricians like me do business the same way unless it some commercial job. Around here people call it good on a handshake or by word. I always heard that if you stay in business long enough your gonna lose some money. Guess this is my time.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Cirus said:


> It won't happen again trust me. Where would I go to get a legal and binding contract drawn up? A lawyer?


 Dig arond on this site for a download,and then have a lawyer look it over;

http://www.uslegalforms.com/contractors/


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I think (know) you should have had a signed contract before you started.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

Next time a customer goes ballistic try this.

Shut up, let him vent as long as it takes. Wait for him to finish. Put on your best poker face. When he's done look him in the eye and repeat calmly, "I am not here to be spoken to as a child. I am an adult and am prepared to discuss this in an adult manner. If you're going to continue to yell at me we are both taking a chance on the next step. Would you rather settle this as adults?" Once again, shut up.

Used it twice myself and walked out with a check both times. One was less than full payment but it was settled and I was then able to walk away.

And take this lesson to your next contract.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Cirus said:


> He gave me a blank floorplan of a 6,000 sq. ft. home and told me to draw in the electrical and give him a bid on that. Lastly, we have no signed contract betweeen us. I gave him a bid on what I drawed in and he accepted it. What do you think?


What does the drawing show?

Where this switch is supposed to be is there a switch marked?

Does it show 

*s*

or 

*s3*


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> What does the drawing show?
> 
> Where this switch is supposed to be is there a switch marked?
> 
> ...


 
No, I drew in the electrical and I didn't mark a 3w there. Saw no need for it. He said it should have been there and any good electrician would have added without it having to be told. Basically he screwed up and he's blaming it on me. I'm not the only sub who had trouble. I'm just the only one who jumped back in his ass when he got mouthy and the only one that didn't get paid, as far as I know.

The first day the painter was there the guys wife came out there with some crap off the internet and tried to tell him how to paint the doors. He told her he has been painting for years and didn't need her help. He questioned everything everyone did.


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## Cirus (Oct 4, 2009)

DavidC said:


> If you're going to continue to yell at me we are both taking a chance on the next step.


I'm afraid he would have taken that as a threat. The guy was pretty pissed or afraid of me one because a few days after I left I realized I had left my 14' step ladder down there. I sent my helper down there with a trailer to get it knowing if I went down there we would have trouble and he told the helper that it was his ladder now. 

A hour or so later the nut calls me and says if I want the ladder to come and get it and starts in with his crap again about how I'm a bad electrician and reminding me that I walked off his job. Like I didn't know that!:laughing: A couple of days later my ladder shows at my local supply house. He walks in and tells the secretary he has my ladder and he's leaving it for me. Scary


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I may have missed it, but what exactly was the situation in regards to the 3 way switch?

Hallway, large room with more than one entry?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

So what's it gonna be? We make some mission style molding and see who screws up first? :w00t:


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Leo G said:


> It's in the mail Gus, in the mail.:shifty:


I was hoping you would hand deliver a cashier's check so I don't have to beat you down when it bounces.:clap:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

This thread is bringing back memories.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5KMZe8n0o


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Gus Dering said:


> I was hoping you would hand deliver a cashier's check so I don't have to beat you down when it bounces.:clap:


It's only for 32¢ Gus, you're lucky I don't charge you shipping and handling charges.:whistling


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

loneframer said:


> This thread is bringing back memories.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm told by the poster of this fine sporting event that since I am the honorary Lesbro of this crowd that I am the barrel chested one in this video.

That makes Leo the little skinny dude ready to take on all the women of the world. That would be worth the price of admission.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I ain't gonna marry you Gus, I don't care what Hoffman says.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Leo G said:


> I ain't gonna marry you Gus, I don't care what Hoffman says.


I know when to take a dive, Leo.

You have been beat down enough by life. You should have someone submissive in your life.:whistling


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)




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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

It's the Gus and Leo Extravaganza:thumbup:





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viRVZQeRumQ


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

JumboJack said:


>


True but this was played out on page 1.

Can we just have some fun now Dad, Please?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> True but this was played out on page 1.
> 
> Can we just have some fun now Dad, Please?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Gus Dering said:


> I know when to take a dive, Leo.
> 
> You have been beat down enough by life. You should have someone submissive in your life.:whistling


My life is pretty good Gus, you seem a little delusional. You feeling OK?:blink:


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Leo G said:


> My life is pretty good Gus, you seem a little delusional. You feeling OK?:blink:


You going soft or something? You care about my well being? Wow, I'm at a loss for words. You win, again. Darn!


By the way everyone, the hijack is all Leo's fault.:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Sunday night, feeling a little mellow. We gotta give the fans the ups and downs they need.


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