# GC vs Handyman: What's the difference?



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

A General Contractor needs to know something about virtually every field of construction. So does a good handyman. So what's the difference?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Scale for one thing.


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## AccurateCut (Mar 20, 2015)

Paperwork


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Tinstaafl said:


> A General Contractor needs to know something about virtually every field of construction. So does a good handyman. So what's the difference?


Knowing something and knowing how to do something is maybe a difference with some contractors..


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Handyman = Maintenance tasks w/o supervision and planning for subcontractors and project phasing.

General Contractor = Construction projects w/ supervision and planning for subcontractors and project phasing.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

No offense to anyone but I despise when people think of me as "handyman." 

To me it just has a "cheap" "skill lacking" connotation, coming from the people who use the term in reference to tradesmen.


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

Know what you mean..I owned a custom cabinet and furniture shop for 12 or so years and it used to pmo when people would tell me what a good carpenter I was.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Spencer said:


> No offense to anyone but I despise when people think of me as "handyman."
> 
> To me it just has a "cheap" "skill lacking" connotation, coming from the people who use the term in reference to tradesmen.


Weird.....that's what I call myself if someone asks....Cabinetmaker/Handyman


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

*GC Vs Handyman: What's The Difference?*

I'm both at the same time. Inevitably over the course of a renovation or addition the client will develop needs or wants elsewhere in the house. After I wrap their main project I often have a week or so of little things. 

For instance, I just finished an enclosed porch and small deck for a retired couple. In the same contract I also had two rooms repainted, all the windows replaced, and the roof replaced.

But after the holidays I'll be back over to make two access hatch doors, replace a little bit of flooring, caulk a backsplash, fix a gutter, etc... If that's all I did I might not like it but it's admittedly very profitable work.

I also do repair work for my clients and a lot of that would fall under the handyman category. I don't take those jobs from people I haven't already worked with, though.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I don't like billing for handyman work. I have no problem sending a $20k bill that is a bigger job but I really struggle sending a bill for one day's work. Probably part of being newer at it.


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## BRShomerepair (Jun 28, 2015)

GC: Manages jobs, typically with sub-trades and/or with an in house staff. Generally does management, supervision, scheduling, etc.

Handyman: Typically does smaller jobs on their own: Has a range of skills (a good one anyways) to do a range of different things, from carpentry to painting and drywall repairs, etc.

I am a carpenter by trade, did an apprenticeship. However some customers may think of me as their "handyman" and that is fine. Some people may hire me to install a bunch of doors and trim, great that's what I do. A lot of it is different stuff however: Over the years I've gotten pretty good at doing a nice drywall repair, learned to brush and roll well, done a bit of tiling, basic plumbing, just a bunch of different stuff.

If I billed myself as a carpenter only, I would miss out on a lot of my customer base which is just small punchlist type stuff. Job I am on right now I am going to replace some laminate countertops, do some minor plumbing, some wall repairs and painting, etc. It is easy gravy work, pays well and pays right away. I actually enjoy the variety.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

Spencer said:


> I don't like billing for handyman work. I have no problem sending a $20k bill that is a bigger job but I really struggle sending a bill for one day's work. Probably part of being newer at it.


I used to be the same way. One thing I find that makes it easier is to give bids for the small jobs too. People are thinking about the cost for the project when its a bid. When you do the work and then send a bill its just about how much material and how much time.


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## Cnrhodes (Jun 23, 2013)

*Gc or Handyman*

A General Contractor is not only a tradesman but a professional business man. He oversees jobs scaling from the 100's of thousands to the millions or multimillions, and can have a full staff or may not, depends on the GC. From my experience a handyman is someone who bounced around several trades trying to find the best fit, then when they couldn't and had mastered none of them, became a handyman "Jack of all trades, master of none". In my area a handyman will never get an inspection, was most likely a painter until there was no work, and has never had any "formal" type of trade training or experience. They can complete the simple tasks, but are not someone you would ever rely on to build a complete project from the ground up and get it right. I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone on the forum, handy men have their place, but they should not be compared to a General Contractor, its like comparing a draftsman to an architect or engineer.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

Some cities license handymen, but the state of Florida does not. You can't pull a permit without a state license.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Sorry folks, but comparing a handyman to a GC is like comparing a high school biology student to a Neurosurgeon....

Handymen touch up paint, fix window screens, change the washer on your garden hose, change light bulbs over 6' high etc etc.....

My opinion of them and their place in the big circle....

Maybe in other states you guys perform open heart surgery but not out here & certainly not in my experience....


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)




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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Robie said:


>


Robie,

Nothing personal, just based on my experience....

It has not been good....


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

griz said:


> Robie,
> 
> Nothing personal, just based on my experience....
> 
> It has not been good....


There is a stigma attached, no doubt. Personally though, I get called in to repair/replace an awful lot of stuff a GC or contractor signed off on.

Bad GC's too.....


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

There doesn't have to be a difference IMO. Both groups of people should be capable of caring about their quality of work.

However, I'm with Griz on this one because I've seen "handyman" work that was done by a not so handy person. They clearly didn't care about the quality of their work and so there I was fixing it.

Usually I have no idea what person did the crappy work, I just know it's crappy.


I think you can get a handyman to do smaller tasks than you would call a GC for. That being said, Dad gets calls from client's of ours for anything from "my earring fell down the drain" to "come change the batteries in my smoke alarms and hang a few pictures"

So for our crew personally, the crews are usually working on the bigger projects, and Dad will do the "handyman" type work as he is able to between estimates and meeting clients etc... He actually loves doing that type of stuff. He enjoys interacting with people and keeping our clients happy.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Robie said:


> There is a stigma attached, no doubt. Personally though, I get called in to repair/replace an awful lot of stuff a GC or contractor signed off on.
> 
> Bad GC's too.....


Agreed...:thumbsup:


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

Handyman is a very vague term. A handyman could be a guy that can swing a hammer or turn a screwdriver to hang a picture. Or a handyman may be a guy that can build a 1,000 sq ft addition on a house. Both could be handy. 

I guess craigslist has help define a handyman. On craigslist you can find all sorts of handymen that will do anything and everything. Most of them around my area aren't licensed or insured and are willing to do just about any job for a little beer money. Even if the job isn't done right. 

So around here at least a "handyman" is a guy who will take whatever job he can get and usually isn't licensed or insured. Most advertise on craigslist.

Also most handymen don't specialize in any one area. Very broad area of trades but usually not very skilled at any trade. Most handymen around here are guys that may have remodeled their own bathroom and then think they know how to do all bathrooms and post a free craigslist add to hopefully make some cash.

Just my experience of handymen around my area.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

The term handyman in modern times is a bit derogatory to the old school fellas who could build a house start to finish. It was a common trait much like old school general practitioner MD's. 

I'm a bit of a handyman myself with all my cross training, I'm also a professional tradesman and specialist. People can wear all sorts of hats just like professionals can have multiple degrees.

I believe there's a bit of handyman in all of us...it's just the perception and stigma of the modern view that prevents many from admitting it.

That being said, I know many GC's that have went out of business as fast as they got into business and many others that couldn't run a business with a harvard degree.

A good GC a lot of times will evolve from a good handyman type who has developed the skills over times to take it to the next level. Same person really, just more interested in the management side.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

The term Handman came about in the late 1800's. It was given to a man who was, well, handy. He could do many menial tasks. One that could do so in a manner in which would allow things to keep running. A jack of all trades master of none. One who could tighten a screw here and loosen one over there to keep things running, but wasn't a skilled craftsman.

Later it came to mean a man who may not work in the trades, but could handle themselves around the house. They were handy men. During the great depression it again, became a way for those men to earn additional income. Some even could make a real living at it. But they never were trained or formerly educated in the trades and often stepped on the toes of those who were.

Even today we have this mentality. When I hear a "handyman" did the work, I immediately picture a guy who watched a bunch of This Old House and decided to give it a whirl.


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## AccurateCut (Mar 20, 2015)

there are a lot of prospective clients that could and do care less they just want stuff done, I get asked do you do heating and i say no but let me give you a number to someone who does if I wasnt standing there I wonder if they would hire just anybody. We have a great deal of people in the world we work in that wont and or cant do simple things like hanging a shelf or picture.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

Maybe I'm being biased, but if someone markets themselves as a Handyman, then they will provide the level of service that is expected from a "schmuck in a truck".
Although You can be a successful tradesman and be a well rounded handyman.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

There's a lot of guys on here I could keep busy just handing out thier card. I trust their knowledge to do a lot of tasks. Even some complicated ones. 

I also know some damn good tradesmen who are a little older and are semi retired that could put a lot of self proclaimed craftsmen to shame,  who are handyman. . I'm in the camp that the word Handyman includes a lot more skill then it used to.


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## BRShomerepair (Jun 28, 2015)

Pretty vague term I think. 

You could have a "handyman" who is a guy who was laid off from his office job, watches some utube video's, and now is a handyman. 

You could have a "handyman" who was a carpenter building and finishing houses for many years, and now prefers to do small stuff, semi-retired, as mentioned above, and is now a handyman.

You can have a handyman who is such because he wouldn't qualify as a tradesman, works for cash with no insurance, taking on jobs above his knowledge level but just hacks by because its cash to keep the lights on. 

There are also professional outfits with fleets of lettered trucks with guys in uniforms providing a handyman type services, small jobs service based business.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I guess it varies from area to area and person to person.

To myself:
General Contractor = someone who doesn't actually perform any hands on work. They do the paperwork and organizing. Hire other companies to perform the actual hands on work. Makes money off of other skilled trades. Sometimes referred to as a "briefcase contractor."

Contractor = A self-employed person that has the skills to perform the work. Also serves as the project manager/general contractor on larger projects. This person will be "hands on" during the project. Makes money from actual physical work and some from hiring sub-contractors.

Handyman = Someone who only performs small menial tasks around the home. Gutter cleaning, hanging pictures or drapes, adjusting doors, small painting, and various other small tasks. This person usually doesn't have insurance, get paid cash, and being a handyman is not his/her main source of income. Could be a retired contractor or carpenter. Could also be someone just starting out and taking whatever they can get. 

No shame in any of those jobs. My definitions are not meant to be degrading at all. Just what I've come to see over the years. In a person's lifetime they could probably be all three. I started off as a handyman and who knows, maybe I'll end up that way.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

griz said:


> Sorry folks, but comparing a handyman to a GC is like comparing a high school biology student to a Neurosurgeon....
> 
> Handymen touch up paint, fix window screens, change the washer on your garden hose, change light bulbs over 6' high etc etc.....
> 
> ...


Griz, that's' funny! It's like they (we) can't even paint, but can "somewhat" be trusted with a can of paint for some minor touch-ups or a hose washer. No offense taken, but that's way off base...for the east coast, anyway. 

..change a hose washer...:laughing: :laughing:


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> A General Contractor needs to know something about virtually every field of construction. So does a good handyman. So what's the difference?


The "handyman" feels the need to defend his legitimacy by answering the question in the first place.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I'm in the camp that the word Handyman includes a lot more skill then it used to.


I hold the same feeling. I find out funny that guys who will ***** and complain about good help will also just throw all handymen into the same category without even giving then the chance.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

tedanderson said:


> The "handyman" feels the need to defend his legitimacy by answering the question in the first place.


Low blow. :clap::clap:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Robie said:


> Knowing something and knowing how to do something is maybe a difference with some contractors..


From what I've seen, GCs rarely do any physical work while that's all the handyman does. A GC is mostly a management type job. I'm sure that some get their hands dirty, but they probably ***** about it at the end of the day. :laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Robie said:


>


What a handyman.....



:laughing:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Leo G said:


> From what I've seen, GCs rarely do any physical work while that's all the handyman does. A GC is mostly a management type job. * I'm sure that some get their hands dirty, but they probably ***** about it at the end of the day.* :laughing:


What I wanted to say.

A mod can get away with it.

Truth hurts.

I'm looking at you Griz.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Okay, let me take these gloves off...hold on a minute...there's a knot....just a sec...

A GC is the hospital administrator.

A handyman is the doctor.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Robie said:


> Okay, let me take these gloves off...hold on a minute...there's a knot....just a sec...
> 
> A GC is the hospital administrator.
> 
> A handyman is the doctor.


The surgeon?

Neurosurgeon, even?


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I've fixed a lot of problems other handymen didn't.
I've fixed a lot of problems contractors caused in the first place.

I'll be the first to admit...there have been times when I've come here to ask the "big boys" how to best identify or repair something. But, that's why CT is here...right?


I'm considered a hero to some of my customers....:laughing:

"Oh just call Rob...he'll fix it"


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

builditguy said:


> I guess it varies from area to area and person to person.
> 
> To myself:
> General Contractor = someone who doesn't actually perform any hands on work. They do the paperwork and organizing. Hire other companies to perform the actual hands on work. Makes money off of other skilled trades. Sometimes referred to as a "briefcase contractor."
> ...


That's seems right, but there's some kind of 4th category between handyman and contractor. That's the skilled guy who probably should call himself a contractor, but doesn't. He seems to take on all sorts of headache jobs nobody else wants (too many of them). He's also the guy folks go to when they say "I don't know who to call." That's me, anyway.

This week I replaced a plaster ceiling that came crashing down (I demod' and prepped, got some drywall guys to expedite) . Replaced some lighting. Replaced a few shingles for a home sale. Patched some drywall after the plumbers were through. Repaired a door jamb and casing after the firemen did their thing to open a bedroom door for a toddler who got locked in. I also took at a look at couple bathroom remodels, laundry room small reno, etc.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

This is a broad subject because I met quiet a few Handyman who are retired GS's or Carpenters who know more then some GS's or Contractors put together.

Many Handyman I met out there are people who spent most of their life in the construction industry and they reached a point in their life where they can live comfortably without being subjected dealing with busy schedules, etc... So now they take it easy and do one thing at the time and that's all what they need. 

I also know a few handyman who will take on additional projects, etc.

Like anything else in our trade or any other trade there are people who know and people who don't know, people who do things right and people who cut corners, etc so you can't really compare one trade against another because people in our broad construction industry can be very knowledgeable in many fields... 

I will give you a perfect example... Good friend of my who use to be a framer and he ran his framing crew for as long as I knew him, at one point he was a hot "commodity" when it came to custom home framing...He did homes ranging from 1000-20,000 SF and people with 10,000 SF homes waited in line to get him on their job.

About 20 years ago he dropped doing framing cut down his crew, and he was strictly in a decking business and was one of the best deck builders on the east coast.

About 5 or so years ago he came into some money, he dropped everything and started buying and re-selling junk, I mean from selling stuff from nuts and bolts to construction trailers, you name it he will get it. He still gets calls to do a deck or two from a recommendation from previous customer and he still loves doing that and will do 1-3 decks a year.

Across the street from him someone was building a million dollar home, I saw him standing on the driveway talking to the owner, so I stopped by to say hello. The owner of that house was looking to do a deck. To make a long story short, I mentioned that he is one of the best deck builders on the east coast. 
I guess looking across the street and seeing piles of junk all over the place, the guy decided to go with " a decked out deck building company" fancy trucks you name it they had it... 
They fk'up the whole deck and when he saw a deck that a friend of my built a few month later down the road from him, his jaw dropped at the quality, the design and workmanship that went into that deck. I think uptoday he is begging him to come and fix the mess with his deck.

So if the guy doing a little painting on the side, or the guy is selling junk or making sandwiches, we can be wrong about someone in another trade at that person abilities to do what we do every day.

With that said, I guess like everything else in this life, no matter what we do we must earn the respect we get and that is based on our knowledge, experience and workmanship. 

Merry Christmas to you and your family everyone, and let's hope in upcoming New Year, our industry will flourish with more professionals like us and get rid of all of the hacks (isn't that a nice thought) :laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

GC is interchangeable with builder for me, so someone who has the skill set and resources to hire and mangage a new build or full scale remodel, and for many of us including me, it includes light commercial. The bulk of our work is whole house remodels and additions right now, with some new construction. 

All different kinds of GCs, some have trades backgrounds and have the skill set to do excellent work themselves, but spend most of their time managing. A lot of that has to do with volume, hard to bag up when you have a lot going on. I have a brief case in my front seat with a Surface Pro tablet and a portable printer, and a couple sets of plans. In the tool box there is a set of bags and a bunch of tools. I can, have and im sure i will again build a house from the ground up self performing. 

Many self perform a lot, like an artisan builder. 

Some have a little hands on experience but not much. Many are still very good contractors, but usually own a bigger company with skilled construction managers. I think its hard to be an effective mid sized to smaller GC with no serious hands on knowledge. You are the one directing all the work. 

Then you have paper boys = no trades experience or trade knowledge. I know few who are any good, but its possible , i guess, if they have a knowledgeable PM/super. Lots of paper boys now. Most good GCs atleast would educate themselves on everything on a build. 

Some know how a house is built, some can build a house. 

As long as the client is getting what they want and subs and vendors are being treated fairly and paid on time. 

Handyman does not have a negative connotation with me, there just are few real handymen here. Most are small project remodelers who will remodel your bathroom or build you a deck, and also fix doors and do some maintenance. I refer a lot of work to a small projects guy here.

There is nothing negative about taking care of a needed item, for a satisfied client and making a living doing so. A knowledgeable handyman is worth a lot to society, imo. Im sure there are many who are skilled craftsman who will also clean gutters or replace some tiles, as long as it pays

Jhark said it best in his initial post, imo.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> What I wanted to say.
> 
> A mod can get away with it.
> 
> ...


I wore bags for years as a GC & Superintendent.

As projects got bigger, more complicated and more than one going at once & bidding new work it became more difficult to find the time to bag up. 

It sucked, I always preferred being on the job wearing bags.

Ask JAWS, he's going through the same deal....


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

griz said:


> I wore bags for years as a GC & Superintendent.
> 
> As projects got bigger, more complicated and more than one going at once & bidding new work it became more difficult to find the time to bag up.
> 
> ...



I know, I know. Got the t shirt.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Just powered through over 12 hours of continuing education as well as a couple hundred bucks in fees for the course & license renewal. That's a fairly notable difference between the two I'd say.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

griz said:


> Sorry folks, but comparing a handyman to a GC is like comparing a high school biology student to a Neurosurgeon....
> 
> Handymen touch up paint, fix window screens, change the washer on your garden hose, change light bulbs over 6' high etc etc.....
> 
> ...


In this state, there is no GC licensing, so whatever someone puts on their business card is what they are. People who market themselves around here do a lot more maintenance activities than a GC - fills a market niche. There are also guys who do handyman work and will do a complete remodel of a 5000 sq ft house, including roofing and siding pretty much solo or with a helper.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Difference or Similarity?

The paper GC's hire others to perform, because they can't do trade related work.

:whistling 95% of the Handymen, should be paper contractors, for the same reason.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

EricBrancard said:


> Scale for one thing.


That was my number one preconceived answer when I started the thread.

Note that I did say _good_ handyman. I've known some who could easily build a house, including all the mechanicals, without breaking a sweat. *And* they knew how to troubleshoot and repair, something a lot of GCs don't have a clue about.

Guys like that don't keep their jobs small because they can't do big stuff. They do it by choice. :thumbsup:


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> Note that I did say _good_ handyman.:thumbsup:


Well they are very few and far between, especially the one you described. The majority of schleps who claim to be ... do a serious disservice to the term and to those who have studied, practiced and perform at a high level of individual trades execution.

There needs to be a better way to classify someone like that.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I know in my state there is an exact definition what a GC is. It's a critical licence and is in the top few licences that are looked at more carefully when it comes to proving experience. 

Only a GC can put construction or builder, in his title. 

Not sure about every state but this can be different state by state.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

My original company name:

C J Handy Company


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Texas Wax said:


> Well they are very few and far between, especially the one you described. The majority of schleps who claim to be ... do a serious disservice to the term and to those who have studied, practiced and perform at a high level of individual trades execution.
> 
> There needs to be a better way to classify someone like that.


That can be said for every trade. Again, everyone complains about not being able to find good help or that they had to let a sub go because they failed at a certain aspect of their trade. I can't count the number of threads started by great contractors with these as a topic.

My feeling is that if you want to do small tasks around the house, then you label yourself a handyman. You are in and out in a day or two. You complete the honey do list and you move to the next one. If you want to start remodeling, then you become a remodeling contractor (small GC). You know your limitations both by skill and knowledge as well as by law and sub out items you cannot or are not allowed to complete.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That can be said for every trade. Again, everyone complains about not being able to find good help or that they had to let a sub go because they failed at a certain aspect of their trade. I can't count the number of threads started by great contractors with these as a topic.
> 
> My feeling is that if you want to do small tasks around the house, then you label yourself a handyman. You are in and out in a day or two. You complete the honey do list and you move to the next one. If you want to start remodeling, then you become a remodeling contractor (small GC). You know your limitations both by skill and knowledge as well as by law and sub out items you cannot or are not allowed to complete.


Read the thread and continuity related to that post? Context of "good" handymen, like the one Tin described? Vast majority are not that and in comparison they are schleps. "Handymen" are a dime a dozen around here and there is no shortage. Anyone with a multi tool, caulk gun and cheap ass Royobi skill saw claims to be one. 

If a handyman is just some warm body to do your chit work, hire a laborer or temp. You generally get the same results and a bit cheaper than a "handyman". Most are low value, low dollar and that's where you classify them.

What about those as Tin described? The ones that can run circles around you because they got 20 more years of experience than you, building, remodeling, dealing with high end high end residential and top end commercial. And want to provide a high high level, professional and deep experience service to clients who desire more than a warm body plus for the multiple small projects and repairs? How many remodelers, artisan builders and small GC's offer or even want work like that? 

What would you call them? Handymen? How do you describe their Services? Handyman don't cut it and GC-Builder-Remdeler don't work well either. ""There needs to be a better way to classify someone like that"".


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Texas Wax said:


> What would you call them? Handymen? How do you describe their Services? Handyman don't cut it and GC-Builder-Remdeler don't work well either. ""There needs to be a better way to classify someone like that"".


Executors of Special Operations....


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Texas Wax said:


> Read the thread and continuity related to that post? Context of "good" handymen, like the one Tin described? Vast majority are not that and in comparison they are schleps. "Handymen" are a dime a dozen around here and there is no shortage. Anyone with a multi tool, caulk gun and cheap ass Royobi skill saw claims to be one.
> 
> If a handyman is just some warm body to do your chit work, hire a laborer or temp. You generally get the same results and a bit cheaper than a "handyman". Most are low value, low dollar and that's where you classify them.
> 
> ...


If bad handymen are rampant in your area, that's because there is a market for them. I don't hire them, so what the hell do I care what they are called? I don't even compete with them, regardless of their talents and experience or if they can run circles around me.

I have no issue with what they call themselves. I think that handyman fits. Just because a bunch of losers hijack a title, doesn't mean that it's not the right title.


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## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

I think one of the biggest things is there is a perception of legitimacy when dealing with a GC, were it is doubtful when dealing with a handyman.

Hence clients will call a handyman first for small projects believing they will get a better price.

Personally my company is Wilton Handyman and we carry every insurance there is including workers comp. The largest job we have done was a $50k bathroom, smallest is 1hr service call which varies in cost by location. We have decorated xmas trees hung thousands of pictures, and we are currently taking care of a new builds snagging list because the lady got sick of begging the GC to do the small things


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Well, after reading some of the posts, I've decided to make some changes....

It sounds like I should be telling my customers they should be hiring a:
Museum curator to hang their pictures...
Electrical contractor to change a light bulb in a high-ceiling garage...
A drywall contractor to repair a hole in a wall..
A painting contractor to paint the drywall repair in the wall...
A trim carpenter to apply crown to the wall...
A painting contractor to paint the crown because the trim contractor won't paint the crown...
A plumber to replace a kitchen or bathroom faucet...
A plumber to turn off their water when cold weather sets in....
An interior decorator to hire a painting contractor to paint their living room...
An electrical contractor to install a ceiling fan....
An arborist and landscaping contractor to trim their shrubs and put down mulch...
A pressure washing contractor to clean their siding...
A landscaping contractor to spread pea gravel....
A service company to change the oil and filters, sharpen the blades on their lawn equipment...
A plumbing contractor to change out a toilet...
An appliance store to hire a trim carpenter and a painting contractor to install a new microwave into a space where an old oven used to be and doesn't fit....
An interior decorator to hire their "go-to" man to install curtain rods...

The list is endless....
My customers won't be pleased...
My customers demand excellence...
Keeping that in mind, I have no idea why they keep calling me back and giving my name out to everyone who needs something done....

I guess I should sell the crap Makita, Bosch, Hitachi and Dewalt tools and buy Ryobi...
Drop the insurance...
Sell the Dodge Ram 2500 4WD and buy a used Impala station wagon...

Do they have a P&R section over at the DIY site? :laughing::laughing:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Robie said:


> Well, after reading some of the posts, I've decided to make some changes....
> 
> It sounds like I should be telling my customers they should be hiring a:
> Museum curator to hang their pictures...
> ...


All well & good....:whistling

but no matter what changes you make you will still be our beloved CT HOPE Coordinator....:thumbsup:

We just can't call any 'ol yahoo for that....:whistling


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Robie said:


> Well, after reading some of the posts, I've decided to make some changes....
> 
> It sounds like I should be telling my customers they should be hiring a:
> Museum curator to hang their pictures...
> ...


I think it's safe to say you're the exception to the rule Robie. :thumbsup:


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

griz said:


> All well & good....:whistling
> 
> but no matter what changes you make you will still be our beloved CT HOPE Coordinator....:thumbsup:
> 
> We just can't call any 'ol yahoo for that....:whistling


...and nobody hates Obama and loves dogs like i do....right?:whistling


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Robie said:


> ...and nobody hates Obama and loves dogs like i do....right?:whistling


Well I run with the NObama pack & am EXTREMELY partial to dogs...:thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Jaws said:


> Thats incorrect. I dont keep stats, but I have been in a few legal council meetings where this was discussed at the state builders association. Lots of discussion on action over suits where liability ins. didnt cover enough and the builders business assets were went after. Especially death or tramatic injury cases.
> 
> Also, i am waiting on the lawyers to finish up on a whole house remodel we are doing in a month or so. HO is suing original builder for a bunch of faulty work he did during the remodel. I am not part of the suit and am not participating, i just wrote a scope of work that included tearing a bunch of new framing and completely gutting the wiring and plumbing. They hired 2 third party inspectors/engineers that concured with my scope.
> 
> The original GC has no Liability. I dont think a civil court will care when they award damages.


Guys without insurance aren't worth sh!t, you can't get blood from a stone. Guys of value have insurance anyway.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Guys without insurance aren't worth sh!t, you can't get blood from a stone. Guys of value have insurance anyway.


Im not just saying this, I know several very successful residential GCs who have a lot of assets, like commercial buildings and ranches. I know several old timers that think 1.2 % of gross sales is a waste of money." Ill never use it anyhow...." My grandpa never had it and he built a lot of houses and a few commercial buildings all the way until about '08. 

But for the most part probably correct.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Jaws said:


> Im not just saying this, I know several very successful residential GCs who have a lot of assets, like commercial buildings and ranches. I know several old timers that think 1.2 % of gross sales is a waste of money." Ill never use it anyhow...." My grandpa never had it and he built a lot of houses and a few commercial buildings all the way until about '08.
> 
> But for the most part probably correct.


Crazy, anytime I'm on a build over 1 mil I need to present an insurance cert before I can work on site.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Crazy, anytime I'm on a build over 1 mil I need to present an insurance cert before I can work on site.


I would think any business person would see value in it, but I know of at least three who dont have it, or one didnt when were looking at the same job as me and the clients asked. 

Two have great reps, them not having insurance came up in the parade of homes meeting. They put houses in and were required by the HBA to have GL and show proof. 

All three of those guys are over 55.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Insurance doesn't protect you it protects the homeowner/company you work for. No one will sue you if you don't have insurance.


Then the HO/biz should buy a policy to cover their risks.

Damned socialists ruining the country. Bed partners with ins ghouls.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Then the HO/biz should buy a policy to cover their risks.
> 
> Damned socialists ruining the country. Bed partners with ins ghouls.


At least it acts as a filter for hacks. When you meet to bid a job bring a copy of your WSIB and Insurance certificate and hand them to your potential client.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> At least it acts as a filter for hacks. When you meet to bid a job bring a copy of your WSIB and Insurance certificate and hand them to your potential client.


Best filter for hacks - smart customers who judge a GC based on their reputation and not their price.


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## _xyz (Oct 28, 2015)

Since I'm still starting out, I do handyman-type stuff all of the time as add-on's from larger jobs (keep in mind larger job for me is a kitchen renovation). I swear, the small stuff is more of a hassle. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of tools it takes to do a simple job. And if you forget something or run into an issue where you need to grab an anchor or something else that you don't have in the truck, it just blew your "easy money".


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

_xyz said:


> Since I'm still starting out, I do handyman-type stuff all of the time as add-on's from larger jobs (keep in mind larger job for me is a kitchen renovation). I swear, the small stuff is more of a hassle. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of tools it takes to do a simple job. And if you forget something or run into an issue where you need to grab an anchor or something else that you don't have in the truck, it just blew your "easy money".


That's exactly why it depends on your business model. For a guy like myself that focuses mainly on mid sized installations small jobs and service work are remarkable aggravating. For a guy who concentrates on that style of work it's fine.

I used this example the other day:

I'm working on a 2 year project, I'm there a couple days a week all day. I get a service call in the opposite end of town that requires immediate attention. After packing up the tools I need and driving there and back through traffic I just blew a 2.5 hour hole in my day to stuff 75 bucks less gas expense in my pocket. Not worth it.

Now let's say I have a day of running around doing service calls, I get a phone call for something that needs immediate service and I can squeeze it in among my other calls. Perfect.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I can only speak for what happens around here and some people I have worked with: 

Many of the GC's I have worked with have a valid contractor's license, bonding, liability insurance, and Workman's Comp. They have references, and, at least 10+ years of experience. They do a lot of what "handymen" do, in fact, looking at the jobs they do, they are what you would term as "handymen". What they have is a lot of safeguards for the homeowner, and, a high level of competence and quality. 

The handymen I have seen and run into: No insurance, license, workman's comp. Little or no verified work history or references. A nondescript truck, car, station wagon or family van. Most are older pick up trucks(still says Datsun on the back) or Astro Vans. Their selling points are: Cheaper than the other guy, No need for permits, No paperwork or contracts, they can do it NOW, payment in cash only. 

To be fair, there are God-Awful GC's who are totally legitimate that are rip-off artists. I wouldn't have these guys do repairs on a dog house. How they ever got a Contractor's license is a mystery. 

There are "handymen" who do some of the best work ever. Clean, professional, efficient, and definitely know how to do the job right. 

The thing is, the lousy GC and the professional Handyman are the exceptions to the rule, which is why it's easy to point them out, and, use them as counterpoints. 

Here is a personal example. When I first started out, I worked with a handyman..he was a former union finish carpenter who couldn't find work, so he did small construction projects on the side. His claim to fame was: He was cheap and no permits needed. 

I needed the work. People in the area just didn't want to pay the going rate for electrical work, much less for legitimate GC's or any other trade. 

So this guy did remodels, tile and stone work, plumbing, roofing, additions, painting and so forth. I did the electrical since he didn't want the liability. Of course, I didn't get paid much, but something is better than nothing. 

What sunk him is that he kept taking on bigger and bigger projects to pay bills (since his wife spent all their money and more on insurance classes, but, didn't sell anything). These projects included asphalt paving and other jobs way outside his experience. 

In the end, he abandoned three on-going projects (I know this because the HO's and guys he works with were calling me, wondering where he went). He left all his tools and materials at the sites. He disappeared for a year. My guess is that he got busted on drugs and didn't make bail.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

_xyz said:


> Since I'm still starting out, I do handyman-type stuff all of the time as add-on's from larger jobs (keep in mind larger job for me is a kitchen renovation). I swear, the small stuff is more of a hassle. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of tools it takes to do a simple job. And if you forget something or run into an issue where you need to grab an anchor or something else that you don't have in the truck, it just blew your "easy money".


This so true. Some of my most frustrating things are trying to attach towel bars or grab bars, etc. Nothing to attach to, something here, but not there, no blocking, screws strip and I'm a 2 hour round trip from the store or it is 6 at night and they are closed. Or for some reason I can't find a Philips bit or driver in my tool kit, so I end up using my leatherman.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Insurance doesn't protect you it protects the homeowner/company you work for. No one will sue you if you don't have insurance.


BS. If I drop a hammer on a kid I'm liable whether I have insurance or not. They not only can sue me if I don't have insurance, it is likely. If my insurance pays for the damage I'm not paying. And my insurance pays for my legal defense. 

Why would I get insurance if I won't be sued if I don't have it?
The HO is entitled to compensation whether I'm insured or not. 

Makes no sense.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> BS. If I drop a hammer on a kid I'm liable whether I have insurance or not. They not only can sue me if I don't hehe insurance it is likely. If my insurance pays for the damage I'm not paying. And my insurance pays for my legal defense.
> 
> Why would I get insurance if I won't be sued if I don't have it?
> Makes no sense.


You missed my point completely.

Contractor A runs a trunk slamming 2-bit operation. He has a net worth of 20k. He doesn't carry insurance.

Contractor B is in the exact same financial situation but has 2 mil liability.

If a Sue happy client went after contractor a for dropping a hammer on his kid he wouldn't be able to cover his legal expense since the guy doesn't have any money. If they went after contractor B they could walk away with 2 million. Contractor A isn't a target for legal action since he isn't worth sh!t.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> You missed my point completely.
> 
> Contractor A runs a trunk slamming 2-bit operation. He has a net worth of 20k. He doesn't carry insurance.
> 
> ...


Easy to say sitting in Canada. You guys aren't sue happy. It only costs a few hundred to file and you don't need a lawyer.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> You missed my point completely.
> 
> Contractor A runs a trunk slamming 2-bit operation. He has a net worth of 20k. He doesn't carry insurance.
> 
> ...


So it only protects the HO from contractors who don't have enough assets to cover a lawsuit.

I have enough assets to cover a substantial lawsuit. Insurance protects me from losing that. It also protects the HO from a broke contractor. So it has protection both ways.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> So it only protects the HO from contractors who don't have enough assets to cover a lawsuit.
> 
> I have enough assets to cover a substantial lawsuit. Insurance protects me from losing that. It also protects the HO from a broke contractor. So it has protection both ways.


Correct


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

My point being presenting an insurance certificate to a client is like saying "by choosing me you do not put your biggest asset at risk, and I'm not a hack"


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> My point being presenting an insurance certificate to a client is like saying "by choosing me you do not put your biggest asset at risk, and I'm not a hack"


Here in MI, 1 mil GL is mandatory. 
A certificate of ins is saying what again?
It says nothing, nothing at all.
Same ratio of bad to good as in the wild west IOW, 100 to 1.


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## _xyz (Oct 28, 2015)

VinylHanger said:


> This so true. Some of my most frustrating things are trying to attach towel bars or grab bars, etc. Nothing to attach to, something here, but not there, no blocking, screws strip and I'm a 2 hour round trip from the store or it is 6 at night and they are closed. Or for some reason I can't find a Philips bit or driver in my tool kit, so I end up using my leatherman.


So familiar. Or the curved double shower curtain rod I did recently. 6 new holes drilled perfectly through the tile so that the cover plate hides the existing holes, rod is level, curve is placed perfectly, all is good. Then 3 of the anchors decide to start spinning on me so the screw won't expand them, all while I'm balancing the rod on my shoulder and the other 2 screws fall into the tub below. 

At this moment I'm cursing myself for saying"yeah sure I can take care of that for you while I'm here".


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Here in MI, 1 mil GL is mandatory.
> A certificate of ins is saying what again?
> It says nothing, nothing at all.
> Same ratio of bad to good as in the wild west IOW, 100 to 1.


If it's mandatory and everyone has it it means nothing, but in my industry its not mandatory on many sites and it costs over 3k a year so it helps separate the trunk slammers.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

> Wasn't funny then, but, I took offense to being called an apprentice when I'm the boss.


Titles...who cares?

I'm like STG...not really concerned what you call me.

I used to give staff business cards with fancy names on them when I was in the country club business. It was better than a raise...looky here, I'm a _Professional Hospitality Libation Professional....._ Yup...a bartender.

Titles....for the vain.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

If they called you an apprentice when you were the HMFIC, you were doing it all wrong, hoss.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

griz said:


> what exactly is "General Construction"...?
> 
> so a handy guy could be very useful during Happy Hour or BBQ clean up...:thumbup::laughing:


Construction in general, anything from a front porch to a custom built home.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Michaeljp86 said:


> Construction in general, anything from a front porch to a custom built home.


So a specific type of construction you still consider "general"?

A custom kitchen, panic room, what about commercial stuff?

You note Coast Guard on the bottom of your posts?

Were you in? as what? how long?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Robie said:


> Titles...who cares?
> 
> I'm like STG...not really concerned what you call me.
> 
> ...



Alternative: Relationship Counselor


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## BRShomerepair (Jun 28, 2015)

You could either ask what the difference is between a handyman and a GC, which can be pretty vague, as in maybe the handyman has no trade experience, or insurance.. or maybe he built houses for years and is now semi-retired, I'd be careful about labeling people from a high horse. Not everyone has a need to go on about certifications they may have, and just choose to do a business model of smaller jobs, which there seems to be a large market for, around here anyways.

Or there is the difference between a business with a handyman type business model, and a GC: Small jobs, when done properly with a high hourly rate or price per job, and markup on materials provided. Work done to a professional standard.

GC, typically takes on larger jobs, has sub-contractors and/or employees.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

stevelovesgod said:


> The carpenter who can NOT read a tape measure is a handyman.



Or a traditional cabinet maker. Some of those guys couldn't add or subtract. Didn't use or need a tape measure to do a whole custom kitchen, either.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> Or a traditional cabinet maker. Some of those guys couldn't add or subtract. Didn't use or need a tape measure to do a whole custom kitchen, either.


Story pole


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

So i shopped insurance pretty hard, and 4 companies came within a few thousand of each other, but no one was anywhere near what I see here. Wish it was, make it a hell of a lot cheaper to be in business. If i paid less, which i could, it wouldnt be a policy that would protect my clients or my business. I still wonder why it varies from state to state. 

One of the big exclusions here is a clause about subs doing damage to property in the course of their work, I dont have that exclusion. If my sub damages a 10k table its covered, or a concrete truck breaks a stained concrete driveway or burns down the house, its covered. If I sub cabinets and my subs cabinet shop burns with 40k worth of my cabinets I paid half for, its covered.

I did get less than 1%, thanks to some of yall, of total COGS, not total sales. I talked to my roofer and he said hed do the small repairs i dont like to sub out, so I took in house roofing out, which helped. If i took framing out it would of been a lot cheaper but i need to keep that, though we sub quite a bit of framing out. 

I bundled all my insurance, GL, WC, commercial vehicle, shop, personal life, company key man life, ect... with one company through the BAN ( Builder Agent Network ) through the Texas Association of Builders and it helped a lot. He also told me to cap total sales at a lower number than i expect, and pay the difference at the end of the year to avoid needing a refund if sales are lower. My new provider is Great American for GL and the rest, still Texas Mutual for WC.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> So i shopped insurance pretty hard, and 4 companies came within a few thousand of each other, but no one was anywhere near what I see here. Wish it was, make it a hell of a lot cheaper to be in business. If i paid less, which i could, it wouldnt be a policy that would protect my clients or my business. I still wonder why it varies from state to state.
> 
> One of the big exclusions here is a clause about subs doing damage to property in the course of their work, I dont have that exclusion. If my sub damages a 10k table its covered, or a concrete truck breaks a stained concrete driveway or burns down the house, its covered. If I sub cabinets and my subs cabinet shop burns with 40k worth of my cabinets I paid half for, its covered.
> 
> ...


Why would I insure a sub? Doen't make more sense to get your company listed as an additional insured by your sub and use his insurance if the need arises?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Why would I insure a sub? Doen't make more sense to get your company listed as an additional insured by your sub and use his insurance if the need arises?


I am an additional insured, we require it, and i have seen more than one occurance where a subs insurance was crap and didnt pay out.


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## skoronesa (Feb 13, 2015)

The short answer is scale. 

I think this question is(perhaps unintentionally) leading. It seems to want the stereotypical answer of "A handyman is a guy who does odd jobs but maybe wasn't good enough to do any one trade exclusively". Before you tell me it's not, it is asking you to compare apples and oranges and doesn't ask in what respect. What's the difference quality wise? Effort wise? Skill wise?

In states where most trades require licenses anyone who isn't licensed is easily seen as a hack who couldn't bother to finish an apprenticeship. In states without licensing every person knows that the quality of their work is what does the talking because "Well anyone can get a van and letter it with electrician/plumber/hvac". That's not to say that anyone with a license does good work, but sometimes home owners assume so.

To me a handyman must be someone who is able to understand all the facets of any trade, he doesn't always have to know them ahead of time, he just has to be able to discover them and know who to ask. To say someone is pretty hand implies they are a quick learner or have done it before.

A handyman usually is an older guy who has done a trade and is semi-retired just helping people for a bit of gas and food money OR is a young guy who knows how to work with tools but is invested in other things too much to do it full time. Or maybe the guy just wants enough cash to eek out a simple living helping people at a resonable rate. But yeah, of course there are bad apples, that's why you ask around about someone before hiring them.

I met a guy who lost his licsense from not renewing after he got fired but of course he has all the tools, knows the tradeand the lingo, and has bought a van. Could he do good work? yeah, but he doesn't. He scams people, sells them a heating system and takes the materials cash without ever ordering or installing, sometimes he orders and returns.

A handyman can be good or bad, depends on who you're talking about. A lot of times it's a carpenter who will do the electrical/plumbing/heating for the addition he built you.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Jaws said:


> So i shopped insurance pretty hard, and 4 companies came within a few thousand of each other, but no one was anywhere near what I see here. Wish it was, make it a hell of a lot cheaper to be in business. If i paid less, which i could, it wouldnt be a policy that would protect my clients or my business. I still wonder why it varies from state to state.
> 
> One of the big exclusions here is a clause about subs doing damage to property in the course of their work, I dont have that exclusion. If my sub damages a 10k table its covered, or a concrete truck breaks a stained concrete driveway or burns down the house, its covered. If I sub cabinets and my subs cabinet shop burns with 40k worth of my cabinets I paid half for, its covered.
> 
> ...


John, are your new rates substantially cheaper than what Watkins could do? I haven't shopped them in several years because I have been happy with their service, but if there's money to be saved I would.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> John, are your new rates substantially cheaper than what Watkins could do? I haven't shopped them in several years because I have been happy with their service, but if there's money to be saved I would.


I liked Watkins, but yes it was. I didnt have all of my stuff with Watkins though so bundling probably helped. He also put me in a builder program that lowered it substantially, but i know several sub contractors who say his rates are good. I have heard him mention it is easier to insure licenced subs also.

Ill text you his number.


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## mski (Apr 4, 2013)

I didn't read all the responses but to me a GC is a pencil pusher who doesn't know what end of a hammer to hold but no doubt is making more money than me. (aka...a "businessman" who sub's everything out)

A handyman is basically in the same boat as a contractor but a handyman gets less respect due to the job title and a contractor gets more because people assume more.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

mski said:


> I didn't read all the responses but to me a GC is a pencil pusher who doesn't know what end of a hammer to hold but no doubt is making more money than me. (aka...a "businessman" who sub's everything out)
> 
> A handyman is basically in the same boat as a contractor but a handyman gets less respect due to the job title and a contractor gets more because people assume more.


In this state you have to show 4 years as a carpenter or working for a GC at a supervision level to even qualify to be a GC. They consider a few years for an apprenticeship. So in essence if you don't have 8 or 9 years minimum experience as a carpenter or superintendent you can't be a GC in this state.

So it might very well be the case that a Cali GC probably has as much if not more experience than the subs he hires.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

mski said:


> I didn't read all the responses but to me a GC is a pencil pusher who doesn't know what end of a hammer to hold but no doubt is making more money than me. (aka...a "businessman" who sub's everything out)
> 
> A handyman is basically in the same boat as a contractor but a handyman gets less respect due to the job title and a contractor gets more because people assume more.


Since i started in a ditch ( actually had to work to get into a ditch ) and have done every part of a house/light commercial build ( minus MEPs ) proffesionally and have put food on my table doing it to become a GC and as a GC, I take exception to the pencil pusher BS. Im as good a carpenter as I am a GC any day of the week, whether thats good or bad varies by the end consumer I guess.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Since i started in a ditch ( actually had to work to get into a ditch ) and have done every part of a house/light commercial build ( minus MEPs ) proffesionally and have put food on my table doing it to become a GC and as a GC, I take exception to the pencil pusher BS. Im as good a carpenter as I am a GC any day of the week, whether thats good or bad varies by the end consumer I guess.


Almost every GC I know was an accomplished carpenter first. I know I've been a carpenter twice as long as I've been a GC.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> In this state you have to show 4 years as a carpenter or working for a GC at a supervision level to even qualify to be a GC. They consider a few years for an apprenticeship. So in essence if you don't have 8 or 9 years minimum experience as a carpenter or superintendent you can't be a GC in this state.
> 
> So it might very well be the case that a Cali GC probably has as much if not more experience than the subs he hires.


So a plumbing or electrical contractor would be ineligible to test as a gc without doing their time as a carpenter?

Curious as to why. I have known several tradesmen who have gone on to become accomplished GC's. Heck, I even built a spec house, but subbed out the things I didn't know.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

TxElectrician said:


> So a plumbing or electrical contractor would be ineligible to test as a gc without doing their time as a carpenter?
> 
> Curious as to why. I have known several tradesmen who have gone on to become accomplished GC's. Heck, I even built a spec house, but subbed out the things I didn't know.


I was thinking when he said carpenter ..He meant any trade in construction would need their Hands on time in first. As It should be IMO.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Michigan licensing is a lot different.

Residential is divided into 2 categories - 
1. Builder
2. Maintenance & Alteration

Only a Builder can take a house from a piece of ground to occupancy, M&A can only modify an existing structure.

Nowadays, you need 60 hours of classroom time, then take a written test. That's it. And they don't care if you can saw a board or nail one, but you better be able to count, multiply, and know the state's business laws.

Then there's what Michigan calls a "General Contractor". That's to build/modify anything that doesn't have people living in it.

No special license required.

So you could build a mall, or a gas station or an airport with nothing more than your registered business entity.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TxElectrician said:


> So a plumbing or electrical contractor would be ineligible to test as a gc without doing their time as a carpenter?
> 
> Curious as to why. I have known several tradesmen who have gone on to become accomplished GC's. Heck, I even built a spec house, but subbed out the things I didn't know.


There are a few critical licenses in Cali. General Contractor, General Engineering, electrical, plumbing, Mechanical, etc. All critical classes MUST show proof of experience in thier respective field. I.E. W2, Union, if you are an owner builder you must show permit records that reflect 4 years. 

Qualifying as an electrician doesn't qualify you as a GC.
HOWEVER A GC can do electrical as long as he does two other trades on the project. 
In other words if I build a deck and run a hose bib and outlets to it I can do it in house. 

I can't however bid only an electrical job and do it in house. 

Here's what is required for any license in Cali


Consumers
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Home | Contractors | Applicants | Contractors License | Exam Application | Experience For Exam
Step 3: Qualifying Experience for the Examination

This step explains what experience qualifies for the contractor’s examination.

Experience Requirements

You must have at least four (4) years of experience, in the class you are applying for, to qualify to take the examination. Credit for experience is given only for experience at a journey level or as a foreman, supervising employee, contractor, or owner-builder. These are defined as follows:

A journeyman is a person who is a fully qualified, experienced worker (as opposed to a trainee, helper, laborer, assistant, apprentice, etc.) and is able to perform the trade without supervision, or a person who has completed an apprenticeship program.

A foreman or supervising employee is a person who has the knowledge and skills of a journeyman and directly supervises physical construction.

A contractor is a person who is currently a licensed California contractor, a former licensed California contractor, personnel of record on a California license, or an out-of-state licensed contractor. A contractor has the skills necessary to manage the daily activities of a construction business, including field supervision.

An owner-builder is a person who has the knowledge and skills of a journeyman and who performs work on his or her own property. Owner-builders must complete and submit a Construction Project Experience form for each project.
REMEMBER all experience claims must be verified by a qualified and responsible person, such as an employer, contractor, foreman/supervisor, fellow employee, other journeyman, union representative, building inspector, architect, engineer, or homeowner.

The person verifying your claim must have firsthand knowledge of your experience--that is, he or she must have observed the work that you have done--and must complete the experience certification portion of the application. Even if you provide a certification of your experience, be prepared to furnish documentation of any experience you claim on the application whenever such documentation is requested. The failure to provide this documentation will result in the return or voiding of your application or denial of the license. A listing of Acceptable Supporting Experience Documentation will help you understand what types of documentation may be appropriate.


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Here in Maine I pretty much just woke up one day and said "I'm a GC." And it was so.

Scary, huh?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Agility said:


> Here in Maine I pretty much just woke up one day and said "I'm a GC." And it was so.
> 
> Scary, huh?


Heck, you don't even have to wake up to be one.:laughing:


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## GCTony (Oct 26, 2012)

A Handyman is the person the wife of a GC calls when she wants something done and gets tired of asking her husband the GC to do it. Then the GC picks apart the work of the Handy man, completes 3 reports and wants to approved the invoice. Then the husband gets mad at the wife when she paid him in cash the same day he finished the work and she didn't get a copy of his insurance, license and no lien waiver. Yep, I'm a GC.

My "dream job" after I get out of this rat race of being a GC is a Handy Man. There's something very attractive about helping people with things they can't do for themselves and make some money doing it. Being a GC is all about the money, on the commercial side anyway.


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