# Ice Dams and attic fan



## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

SLSTech said:


> I think I mentioned it was supposed to be a box fan, it is temporary & not to blow air out or in - just around (my thoughts on powered attic fans)
> 
> :laughing:


I can't rip on you for your opinion on attic fans and such, you are 110% inclined to have any likes or own ideas on what ever you wish.


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

Crawl-Dog said:


> I can't rip on you for your opinion on attic fans and such, you are 110% inclined to have any likes or own ideas on what ever you wish.


I'll bite - do I take it you are a fan of them, hate them, or more along the likes of they are ok in certain cases only?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

SLSTech said:


> I think I mentioned it was supposed to be a box fan, it is temporary & not to blow air out or in - just around (my thoughts on powered attic fans)
> 
> TNT - very good points on fixing the issue, but if it is that cold up there still, uncovering & trying to fix things can make the issue worse & in some cases can't be done if there is a lot of ice or issues on the inside. It is a little hard to say without pics / being there to see it
> 
> ...


]

Never seen it make it worse. You go up and thermal image the attic. The colder the better. Waiting for it to get warm would only make it more difficult, don't you agree? I would think a qualified GC like yourself would already now that.

Aside from an emergency call, roof leak, plumbing leak, etc... I have never known of a non emergency that couldn;t be fixed right there on the spot.


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## jeffatsquan (Mar 16, 2009)

Tom Silva of this old house fame says if water is dripping inside your house due to ice dams the first thing you do is set up a fan in the attic this will cool the warm air that is causing the melting by mixing the air and lowering the temp.

This is only a temporary step and affords you a little time to take more drastic measures to solve the problem


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

Great. I loved Tom Silva until I just now realized he must not be qualified to be a GC. Thank god for this thread!


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## jeffatsquan (Mar 16, 2009)

jmiller said:


> Great. I loved Tom Silva until I just now realized he must not be qualified to be a GC. Thank god for this thread!


 
Your loss


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

jeffatsquan said:


> Your loss


Sarcasm. Some get it, some don't.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

some are better at it than others:whistling....:laughing::jester:


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> ]
> 
> ......The colder the better......


 I was thinking about this the other day. I may have posted in another thread.

I can't see a benefit of lowering the attic temp much below freezing. Not that I would know how to stop it if it is outside the envelope.


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

SLSTech said:


> I'll bite - *a)*do I take it you are a fan of them, *b)*hate them, *c)*or more along the likes of they are ok in certain cases only?


C is my final answer..

Depending on the circumstance and situation, framing ext.. I'm a huge fan in ventilation, but also advocate sealing some spaces too and making them part of the envelope.
I am also a firm believer in the theory that it should be cold in the attic in the winter, the insulation will do it's job, and the cold will benefit other aspects as well, keeping moister at bay ext.
I don't stress this because of my trade, even if I made Hogie's for a living, I would say insulate the **** out of the envelope of the structure, given adequate fiberglass batt, blown, foam, FSK ext.

Fans have a purpose, they should be used during certain seasons and just at that. Fans should not be used to pick up the slack and make a temp fix when a poor job of insulation was done. I will bet my bottom dollar that a) there is a weak R-value near the eves. and b) heat is escaping up through the access to the attic. Just my call..... I have been known to be wrong once or twice..


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> some are better at it than others:whistling....:laughing::jester:


That was good sarcasm. I'd like to see you do better.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

nobody can be as good at it as you Jeff:sad:....:shifty:


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## Teoli (Feb 27, 2010)

*Sprayfoam anyone?*

No ones mentioned the benefits of sprayfoam here.

My small two month stint with a spray foam company here in the Chicagoland area taught me this. You don't want a cold attic....It went against most of what I'd been brainwashed for. Reasons being:

Your attic space whether you use it for storage or not should be within 5 degrees of your normal living space. This is accomplished by either conditioning the space with HVAC or popping in a few "fake 3x10" vents in the ceiling below so you have fresh conditioned air circulating from below. You insulate ideally with closed cell foam(or open cell -just more of it.) over your rafter vents and completely cover the rafters (prevents thermal bridging). Yes, it's still important to have air movement from the the soffits to the ridge. Just bury it.

The idea was sold to potential clients for the reasons that

*You gain storage space

*If your furnace or air conditioner is located in this space you could downsize to a smaller more efficient unit because it won't work so hard against a freezing or broiling hot attic space.

*You gain a cleaner and less dusty space for people who are sensitive to all of that loose fill FG or cellulose. We vaccumed out all of the old insulation first (optional)

*Lastly, it's the best insulator period (vapor barrier too), compared to any other insulation available. It will isolate the cold completely and prevent most ice damming.

I was completely sold after the numerous roofs that were done and I followed up with many a happy customer.

Again, just my personal experience.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Teoli said:


> No ones mentioned the benefits of sprayfoam here.
> 
> My small two month stint with a spray foam company here in the Chicagoland area taught me this. You don't want a cold attic....It went against most of what I'd been brainwashed for. Reasons being:
> 
> ...


Did you mention it on the first page? The draw backs of spray foam are: it's expensive and once it is down, it is there for good.


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## Teoli (Feb 27, 2010)

Yeah, I did mention it before. I was just reinforcing it with a little more oomph.

And the expensive part. Absolutely. It was a much easier sell for 2009 and 2010 when there were tax credits. And it's directly tied to the price of oil, meaning it's going to get more expensive.


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

Teoli said:


> No ones mentioned the benefits of sprayfoam here.
> 
> My small two month stint with a spray foam company here in the Chicagoland area taught me this. You don't want a cold attic....It went against most of what I'd been brainwashed for. Reasons being:
> 
> ...


In this here you advocate 3 useless points in regards to spray foam being beneficial here. And your lastly comment " the best ", is a matter of opinion and a biased one at that.
The stuff is very costly and not something people will just fork cash out for to put in, lets say an ATTIC!!!!! There is way cheaper, and more efficant ways to combat this situation. So, he cleans up his blown insulation, prep it of with full vents and fork out the cash for spray foam.. Is this the ideal fix here?

He could vent with prop vents, and apply FSK for a fraction of the price and get the same effects. Plus you can bet he will kick himself in the ass when he need a new roof from sheathing rot.. Plus when/if water gets in between the sheathing and close cell it will not be absorbed, and if it does not dry in a timely fashion ( no real way to tell if it would even dry ), will cause rot. The problem of sheathing rot is real, fact!

If he was to do that, he should get an assessment of the roofs condition to see if it would be even worth it.

Why make an even more complex situation here.. To much thinking going on around these parts.. Look outside the box here guys, not just inside!

People always trying to re-invent the wheel.. Just do what has been proven to work, and keep it simple!


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

just because something is more expensive don't make it bad:no:


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> just because something is more expensive don't make it bad:no:


you never bough an expansive piece of **** item before?:whistling


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

all these problems that you list with foam have also happened with every other kinds of insulation too:whistling


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> all these problems that you list with foam have also happened with every other kinds of insulation too:whistling


It will speed up the process with a closed cell, you can bank on that one..:thumbsup:

Fiberglass will absorb, and if that was the case, is expendable. Rip it out of that was the case.. Foam on the other hand, that would be some fun-fun in the sun my friend!


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> The question remains unanswered though...how does a "conditioned" attic prevent ice dams? I can understand if its done how you described in the earlier post where the rafters are vented & then sprayed foam around) but other than that, I'd like some legitimate explanation--because it's got to change my whole way of thinking.


Heat escaping the conditioned space contributes to ice dams when it is allowed to reach and congregate at the underside of the decking. 

We are bringing the attic into the realm of conditioned space, and the CC insulation is a perfect air and heat barrier, so no more conditioned air can get anywhere near the decking. 

You brought up condensation on a cold drink when it's hot out, but didn't mention how much better styrofoam cups are at preventing that.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

jmiller said:


> Heat escaping the conditioned space contributes to ice dams when it is allowed to reach and congregate at the underside of the decking.
> 
> We are bringing the attic into the realm of conditioned space, and the CC insulation is a perfect air and heat barrier, so no more conditioned air can get anywhere near the decking.
> 
> You brought up condensation on a cold drink when it's hot out, but didn't mention how much better styrofoam cups are at preventing that.


ok, I totally understand that, BUT, if the CC keeps conditioned air away from the decking, then why even condition the space at all? I understand the whole plumbing thing, but like most people, if you don't have plumbing in your attic, what's the point?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

many have air handlers and ac/heating equipt.there that should be in conditioned space


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## Teoli (Feb 27, 2010)

*thank you*

I have the solution to ice dams, its called summer. :w00t:

We needed a comedic break.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

*Here's a little comedic interlude for you.*

(btw, I'm with you, I'm just a carpenter wannabe contractor)


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

:laughing: No wonder why Massachusetts has so many gun laws

Intermission over... :whistling

If you move the dew to form outside the structure, will it not freeze & create an ice dam? Isn't that what we are trying to prevent here?

No, because you are accomplishing the same thing as a vented roof - the roof decking remains at the outside ambient temperature. The problem is those that don't spray enough, you could get condensation forming inside - in the prior BuildingScience site they actually have a chart or the equation to figure it out

If closed cell traps it in, how is it able to "dry it out the way it got in"--please elaborate how that is possible

Lets say a branch damaged the roofing and created a divot where water can accumulate - water will do what it does best, soak in and move to a drier area which takes time. Because of the makeup of closed cell foam, physics, etc... you will have a small area that may get wet, and as soon as it stops raining and the sun comes out - it will dry-out via the same area (sure if left forever, no roof inspection, etc... it will grow, but that is true of all roofs) 

Now we also know that water is lazy (i.e. it loves gravity) so lets go a fraction further and say it is a long storm, or it penetrated the sheathing to the foam. The water has no place to go with the CC Foam, it is left up to the saturation characteristics of the wood. Open Cell will absorb it like a sponge and keep asking for more, while a vented roof will automatically starting leaking inside. 

As for the repairs - pretty easy to replace a shingle or two & add some I&W to the damaged area for the first example, a tad more expensive if you need to cut out a chunk of roof sheathing and replace it (followed up by respraying the inside in that one area) but we are looking at what - a grand max?
Open cell - rip & remove foam, repairs above, let bays dry out, & respray how many bays - where did the water come out, damage inside?
Vented roof - still have damaged insulation, drywall, and who knows what else is wrong

Now to the flip side of the coin - moisture from inside, sure it can be absorbed into the wood, just like any other roof & it will also dry-out via the wood - it can't be absorbed into the CC Foam, unlike OC, FG, Cellulose, etc... The best bet no matter what roof you have is to control the moisture inside the home

CC keeps conditioned air away from the decking, then why even condition the space at all? I understand the whole plumbing thing, but like most people, if you don't have plumbing in your attic, what's the point?

As I mentioned & others - it depends on the house, how it is used, what the HO's would like, etc... Also please remember we are not conditioning this space, but rather bringing it into the conditioned space the space above in a single story is about 2 degrees warmer than below, while in a 2 story house, there maybe a 5 degree difference between it and the 1st floor

One of the biggest advantages is the AC during the summer, instead of having 140 degree air we are battling, we are only battling the outside ambient temperature & solar loading


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

I don't even know where to begin here... lots of great points and views here..


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

you see a thanks button under all my post:hammer:


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

I see one now.. But I am yet to begin to fight...At this point I been out of the loop for almost 24hrs and massive posts rained in. I have way to much catching up here to do..


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

we can wait:drink:i got all nitehone:


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

start with the you tube "intermission video"


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> start with the you tube "intermission video"


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

Look.. I just get right to the point here.. The OP ask a question and thus he was seeking just an answer for that, and it ends up in all sorts of hypothetical situations and such, and this vs that.

The topic here has geared off to SP and this seems to be the new crashed thread topic.

If one desires to condition the attic space, then it should be all or nothing. No room for a "SEMI-conditioned" attic space.. If thats the case, then ventilation would need to be applied of course,humidifier ext. and I'm not talking to the outside in which that will be a huge moisture problem. But, adding registers would be what would be needed in that case. Before any type of retrofit is done, a moisture reading should be done on living space and attic. Also a pressure test as well.. A moisture test would most deff need to be looked into before SP is added to the existing roof/sheathing.
Also it was stressed in here that one sees no moisture on a foam cup, Ok, how about a cold can of soda in a foam holder? where does that moisture go? Same principles here.. Trapped moisture between the spaces with no way of aiding in ridding it. 

Back to the OP, plane and simple, I would bet my next 2 paychecks on this.
Get a pressure test down on the living space and lets see if I am right on the fact that he is losing way more heat in the attic then what is assumed at this moment..


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

This is the Problem! ( back on track) :thumbsup:


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

Snobnd said:


> This is the Problem! ( back on track) :thumbsup:


That's clear as day, the proof is in the pudding.. Heat lose plane and simple..

Look at the other houses in the row. Their snow is almost acting as an insulated barrier, because no heat is effecting it from the other 'inner Side', there is no melting/refreezing/remelting ext.. Near the eves is where the weakest R-value seems to lay.. 
When blowing the Cellulose many installers just drift it to the rafters by the eves with-out really getting it deep/thick near the eves. They build a wall with the blown-in, that gives the illusion from the inside that it is in-fact packed all the way to the very edge. What I do is stuff the eves with the vents, and go up with an other length of vent to assure no over spray fills the cavity of the vent/sheathing space.. Then I stuff some R-30 on the ends to assure good R-value is already there, then I cover it with an additional layer of the cellulose as I cover the rest of the attic space.. I will bet that you have an insignificant R-Value in those areas mentioned.

Also, on the inside of the living space, look up at the drywall ceiling, where the trouble spot is, and see if you notice a faint dust collection on those areas on the interior of the house, they will look like boxed out areas the shape of the bay of the attics, you may need to get up/close and personal with the drywall and get a detectives style type of look at the dry wall.. Rub your finger tip ext. to see if there is any collection what so ever.. This will indicate heat-loss, moisture issues ext..

Good luck, and I apologize if I geared this thread off topic earlier and such with SP talk.. I didn't mean to crash your thread!


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## Teoli (Feb 27, 2010)

*A Hybrid topic*



Crawl-Dog said:


> That's clear as day, the proof is in the pudding.. Heat lose plane and simple..
> 
> Look at the other houses in the row. Their snow is almost acting as an insulated barrier, because no heat is effecting it from the other 'inner Side', there is no melting/refreezing/remelting ext.. Near the eves is where the weakest R-value seems to lay..
> When blowing the Cellulose many installers just drift it to the rafters by the eves with-out really getting it deep/thick near the eves. They build a wall with the blown-in, that gives the illusion from the inside that it is in-fact packed all the way to the very edge. What I do is stuff the eves with the vents, and go up with an other length of vent to assure no over spray fills the cavity of the vent/sheathing space.. Then I stuff some R-30 on the ends to assure good R-value is already there, then I cover it with an additional layer of the cellulose as I cover the rest of the attic space.. I will bet that you have an insignificant R-Value in those areas mentioned.
> ...


I agree, back to venting also.

SF installers perform a similar operation near the soffit/rafter area. They either do what you described with adding a "wall" of vent that will allow the SF to expand around and block that heat loss area. Or they make a "bun". A chunk of cured SF which blocks that section and then allows additional SF to expand and cure around the "bun".

I'm still of the mindset that thermally blocking the cold roof completely from a semi conditioned attic space is the way to go.

Now in the Summer there could be an alternative. The heat will build up in an un-air conditioned house. The heat rises and it becomes unbearable upstairs. Rather than adding a $10k space pac system, I think a whole house fan or gable vent or the equivalent is needed then. It can be blocked in the winter and let loose for the summer. 

Can we agree on this?


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## mattsk8 (Dec 6, 2009)

The main reason I asked about the whole house ceiling fan is because I have one too, and I have the same problem.

While I think whole house ceiling fans are very usefull in the spring and summer months, I think they cause problems in the winter months. If he has one that doesn't get sealed in the winter, there's about a 3' x 3' hole between his house and attic w/ nothing more than strips of thin steel to keep the heat in his house. That would be his heat loss and ice problem.

Best way to tell would be to identify the areas of heat loss by looking at more than just the ice dam, you'd have to see the whole roof and where the snow is melting first. I'd bet it's right above his attic fan (if I didn't read that wrong and does have one!).


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

Teoli said:


> I agree, back to venting also.
> 
> SF installers perform a similar operation near the soffit/rafter area. They either do what you described with adding a "wall" of vent that will allow the SF to expand around and block that heat loss area. Or they make a "bun". A chunk of cured SF which blocks that section and then allows additional SF to expand and cure around the "bun".
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you speak about in regards to the "Buns".. I done SF, as I have worked for a few insulation companies that where a corp. so to speak and we did many phases of insulation. So with that being said I have a decent back ground with SF. 
I agree with you on the upgrading from a semi to a complete conditioned space. IMO I stand firm on the " no room for a semi conditioned space ", for that levels to trouble and will speed up any issues that will/could linger around the corner.

*Why not do away completely with the venting from/to the conditioned attic to the outside, and just add registers?*:innocent:

For the summer conditions in the area.. registers will be avail so the WHOLE living space/structure will be balanced already no?

For adding the space spec system, if the HO has a person whom knows what they are doing far as a AC unit would go, and the PROPER size, not what an installer recommends, but a legitimate individual who knows what they are doing far as specs and what size would be needed. Many people think more is better, when in fact less can be more. yada yada yada! 

I won't slam your ideas behind conditioning what so ever, just the principles that needs to be applied to make it correct is where we will see a huge diversity of ideas, including mine.


*I agree that we share the same common goal here.*:thumbsup:




mattsk8 said:


> The main reason I asked about the whole house ceiling fan is because I have one too, and I have the same problem.
> 
> While I think whole house ceiling fans are very usefull in the spring and summer months, I think they cause problems in the winter months. If he has one that doesn't get sealed in the winter, there's about a 3' x 3' hole between his house and attic w/ nothing more than strips of thin steel to keep the heat in his house. That would be his heat loss and ice problem.
> 
> Best way to tell would be to identify the areas of heat loss by looking at more than just the ice dam, you'd have to see the whole roof and where the snow is melting first. I'd bet it's right above his attic fan (if I didn't read that wrong and does have one!).


For the house fan, it is an old but brilliant philosophy, push and pull with air is a favorite for many, will be be practices still. However, when it is notis use that's where the NEW engineered ideals come into play.. They make these Insulated fan covers. It is engeneered with a FSK cover, and also much like these attic stair cover.. Seal N shield!
They make this that are much greater then the 3.2 R-value that you see below, below is just an idea.

There is two types of covers, one for inside the attic, and one fore the ceiling inside.. Applying both is a double dose that yield a much greater R-value then one could expect from a single shield barrier.

*Specially engineered, patented insulator designed to create an air transfer barrier between attic and living areas. It also keeps blown insulation up in the attic (and not on the floor) when the attic stair door is opened. The patented Attic Tent consists of a durable shell made of a space age synthetic casing. This high-tech material is adhered to 1/2" thick micro-fiber urethane insulation, which has been proven to reduce air transfer by at least 71%. The Attic Tent materials have been calculated to a 3.2 R-Value. It fits easily around an attic stair frame and can be secured with staples to any surface, smooth or not smooth. It is recommended that you place a bead of caulk around the seam for an airtight fit.







*


























Also covering the lights " hight hats". will also aid in greater R-value ..


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Third on the heat loss. I would def look at the walls and make sure there is adequate insulation in them. Sounds like a half-ass job on the blow in. Crawl Dog has some great pics and advice. I would start there...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

this is a great place to find these products that THE DOG shows

http://www.conservationtechnology.com/building.html


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> this is a great place to find these products that THE DOG shows
> 
> http://www.conservationtechnology.com/building.html


I use *www.contractor-pro.com* for all these needs.. 

Also

* Seal n shield.com * AKA *www.pesinc.org*


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> this is a great place to find these products that THE DOG shows
> 
> http://www.conservationtechnology.com/building.html


I just reviewed this site all over. not a bad site at all...:thumbsup:


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## cbreeze (May 2, 2007)

Crawl-Dog said:


> I know exactly what you speak about in regards to the "Buns".. I done SF, as I have worked for a few insulation companies that where a corp. so to speak and we did many phases of insulation. So with that being said I have a decent back ground with SF.
> I agree with you on the upgrading from a semi to a complete conditioned space. IMO I stand firm on the " no room for a semi conditioned space ", for that levels to trouble and will speed up any issues that will/could linger around the corner.
> 
> *Why not do away completely with the venting from/to the conditioned attic to the outside, and just add registers?*:innocent:
> ...



What is that you have covering the light? And if the cans are not rated IC do you just build a box around them?


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

cbreeze said:


> What is that you have covering the light? And if the cans are not rated IC do you just build a box around them?


*That's a very good question and I'm glad someone asked... Good absorption..*

_Let me just stress that in the pic in the previous post, that is NOT a bathroom trash can, or office can.. _

There is several different versions of can light covers. One very populare one for non IC and IC cans is made by TenMat, Their FF109 Downlighter and High Hat Fixture Protection Covers have intumescent characteristics so that in the case of a fire the covers expand internally to form a highly insulative char to seal off any gaps and prevent the fire and heat from spreading further.

























*http://www.tenmat-us.com/faq.html* 

and

*http://www.recessedlightcover.com/*







Also, you have other various types made from different manufacturers.
Depended on the light fixure, they can tell you what is to be used and not to be used, and what the exact specs are.. Also your building codes will give you details in regards as-well..

*Foam with Fire rated Can SF, for air tight seal.*









*( below ) This is what I was speaking about, where heat loss is at, and brakes the air seal in the houses envelope *










*An other brand below*










*Covered with Cellulose Below*









*And an other below that can be sealed and covered with FB or blown!*


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

I hope I was able to shed some light here for some of you guys, and those that* possibly* wanted to questioned my experience and/or theories.
My object here is to only *help/share* with the community and the *OP* of this thread, not to create or cause a pissing contest or to create resentments to others.

*I hope this information can serve to a greater purpose...*

Warmest Regards,
Crawl-Dog


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

we know:thumbup:...at first i liked ya then i didn't then i hated you then i was ambivilent then hated you again now i still hate you but not as much then.....


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> we know:thumbup:...at first i liked ya then i didn't then i hated you then i was ambivilent then hated you again now i still hate you but not as much then.....


now thats funny!:laughing:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

just doin my self appointed job:thumbup::drink:


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Personally, I feel like I learned a lot. I still have a lot to learn though as this subject is something I've never really had personal experience in. And you know, while I'm here and have everyones attention. I'm beginning a 3 season sun porch to four season dining room conversion soon. I think the owners want the walls spray foamed once they are opened up. Most of the room will still be windows (there are 2 exterior walls, mostly windows/doors). Now, from one of the sites you guys posted above, I noticed DIY spray foam kit. Any thoughts, is it simple to use? It'd be nice to have something like this kickin' around for when I'd need it.


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> *Personally, I feel like I learned a lot.* I still have a lot to learn though as this subject is something I've never really had personal experience in. And you know, while I'm here and have everyones attention. I'm beginning a 3 season sun porch to four season dining room conversion soon. I think the owners want the walls spray foamed once they are opened up. Most of the room will still be windows (there are 2 exterior walls, mostly windows/doors). Now, from one of the sites you guys posted above, I noticed DIY spray foam kit. Any thoughts, is it simple to use? It'd be nice to have something like this kickin' around for when I'd need it.


I concur about the learning part.. If we aren't learning each and everyday, they we need to reevaluate ourselves and our outlook on things and open our minds..* Our minds are like parachutes they work best when they are open! *

I used the 2 can kit many times.. For jobs 600sq ft and less, they are perfect.. User friendly just about, and the directions are cake.. If you are a builder, then you'll grasp what you are doing with it in no time.. If you do get it, just came back here for tips on how to, and/or youtube it. It's really easy, no joke.

Your looking at 600$ thos for the 2 cans/tanks.. I know a place where you can get it shipped, just hit me up when your ready.. <-- ( Mods, I'm not selling, just a site I know of )..

You'll be better to SF those rooms anyhow, it's good stuff! If it's all windows too, use the non-expanding foam too for those, even if they are Andersons, who cares..


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> Personally, I feel like I learned a lot. I still have a lot to learn though as this subject is something I've never really had personal experience in. And you know, while I'm here and have everyones attention. I'm beginning a 3 season sun porch to four season dining room conversion soon. I think the owners want the walls spray foamed once they are opened up. Most of the room will still be windows (there are 2 exterior walls, mostly windows/doors). Now, from one of the sites you guys posted above, I noticed DIY spray foam kit. Any thoughts, is it simple to use? It'd be nice to have something like this kickin' around for when I'd need it.


Pretty pricey that one is. I've seen 600 bf kit for under $1/bf. There was a recent thread here at CT with a link to some youtube promo video. Poke around CT and I bet you can find it.


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

Crawl-Dog said:


> I used the 2 can kit many times.. *For jobs 600sq ft* and less, j*ust came back here for tips on how to, and/or youtube it.* It's really easy, no joke.
> 
> *Your looking at 600$ *thos for the 2 cans/tanks..





Mr Latone said:


> Pretty pricey that one is. *I've seen 600 bf kit* for under $1/bf. There was a recent thread here at CT with a link to some *youtube promo video*. Poke around CT and I bet you can find it.


What Him and I said..


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## Teoli (Feb 27, 2010)

Yeah, this was a good ride for the last few days. Ended up learning more than I thought.

Funny you should mention the 3 season to 4 season room Centerline. I'm doing the exact same thing to my own sunroom in the spring (hopefully). I considered the DIY SF kit also. In the end I decided against it. Theyre not as inexpensive as you think. They also aren't on the same formula as the real thing. It's more like a big can of Great Stuff. That may not be terrible. If you do buy it though, make sure you get the kit with the higher pressure. It will have enough pressure to last to the end, that way you aren't sputtering and spitting the last 15% of the bottle. 

Look at the You Tube videos. The difference in the way you see the DIY kits look while theyre being applied vs. the way the Pros look. It's like comparing a 12volt Ryobi drill to A 36 volt Bosch. It made me think twice. Maybe let the pros do it. It's worth the extra cash.


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

Teoli said:


> Yeah, this was a good ride for the last few days. Ended up learning more than I thought.
> 
> Funny you should mention the 3 season to 4 season room Centerline. I'm doing the exact same thing to my own sunroom in the spring (hopefully). I considered the DIY SF kit also. In the end I decided against it. Theyre not as inexpensive as you think. They also aren't on the same formula as the real thing. It's more like a big can of Great Stuff. That may not be terrible. If you do buy it though, make sure you get the kit with the higher pressure. It will have enough pressure to last to the end, that way you aren't sputtering and spitting the last 15% of the bottle.
> 
> Look at the You Tube videos. The difference in the way you see the DIY kits look while theyre being applied vs. the way the Pros look. It's like comparing a 12volt Ryobi drill to A 36 volt Bosch. It made me think twice. Maybe let the pros do it. It's worth the extra cash.


It has been a fun ride.. I didn't think I would have had the time to catch up after that night I laided with my kiddies and went to sleep.. Woke up to a mess.. hahaha..

About the foam.. and having the pro's do it, I agree 110% on that.. The only draw back is sometimes they won't fit you into their schedule to do it, because of the machine setting up, and braking it down, all for a small job.. It's a pain in the ass to set up only for a job that your gonna blow out in a few secs... If he can maybe get his crawl-space band joist boxed out too, and then maybe they might do it as a package that way.. Only way to know is to call right?
Just some food for thought!


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Crawl-Dog said:


> It has been a fun ride.. I didn't think I would have had the time to catch up after that night I laided with my kiddies and went to sleep.. Woke up to a mess.. hahaha..
> 
> About the foam.. and having the pro's do it, I agree 110% on that.. The only draw back is sometimes they won't fit you into their schedule to do it, because of the machine setting up, and braking it down, all for a small job.. It's a pain in the ass to set up only for a job that your gonna blow out in a few secs... If he can maybe get his crawl-space band joist boxed out too, and then maybe they might do it as a package that way.. Only way to know is to call right?
> Just some food for thought!


That's exactly why I was thinking about doing it myself. There really is VERY little wall area left once all of the windows & doors are in. I was just gonna throw FG in, but after reading this thread it reminded me that I've seen little portable SF kits on tv & thought that'd be the way to go. Thanks again for the advice guys. C-dog I'll PM when I figure out my a$$ from my elbow sometime in the next week or two.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I just watched a show called, "My Strange Addiction". I think that I have found the ICE DAMN solution. Mount a blow dryer to the roof and leave it running. Of course you will need to mount an umbrella over it, but that should be no problem.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

ooops....posted a video here but meant for it in the "awesome you tube" thread-- my bad.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Not sure if this thread is winding down yet - just thought i'd add this...
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/item/15418/ice-dams-can-lights-wet-walls-and-water-damage


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

superseal said:


> Not sure if this thread is winding down yet - just thought i'd add this...
> http://www.finehomebuilding.com/item/15418/ice-dams-can-lights-wet-walls-and-water-damage


No thread is to late to post... great read bro.. thanks for sharing!:thumbsup:


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