# Ledge



## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

How do you guys charge clients for ledge removal. We don't run into much ledge on job sites. On house excavations we have clients deal directly with blaster & we charge for moving or removal of ledge.

I have a 100' sewer main extension which may have some ledge. They had some boring done in line with the extension & it showed 3',4', 6' & 7' to ledge. The line is 5.5' deep so there is good chance we will have to deal with ledge. With times being what they are, I hate to estimate too high or too low for obvious reasons. I don't have a hammer so I would either rent one for my machine or rent another machine with hammer.

So, do you guys charge by the yd., hour or some other way.


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

On most public jobs if they suspect rock(that's what we have around here) they will have a line item for rock removal by the cubic yard. That will include any method to dig, hammer, or blast it and include loading and hauling it off site. Usually you will see prices all over the place on that one. I've seen anywhere from 8.00 per yard to 105.00 per yard on the same job.

So just make sure you are covered. Better to sit at home and not make any money than to work like a dog and lose money. :whistling

You might even take a lawn chair and a case of beer to the job and watch the guy who bids it a 8.00 per yard go broke. :laughing:


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

S.R.E.

It's a private job. Doesn't matter if I figure by the yard, hour or day. I always err on the higher side with these types of variables. Probably why I can't grab any jobs lately.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Since the owners know of the ledge ask them how they would prefer to deal with it. Present what you believe will be the most economical & efficient solution.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

We deal with rock all the time. So much, that we purchased a new NPK hammer. I just hammered out a foundation last week. Everything we do for rock is all by the hour. Rock is funny. Some of it might come out like R-4 and then when you get down another 3ft, you are making powder. Bidding by yard is risky. It is fairer on both parties to charge by the hour. If you have to rent a machine, then charge for rental, mobil, fuel, grease and operator.


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## ajbackhoe (Nov 26, 2006)

On public jobs I bid around 85-95.00 per c/y. On private jobs I charge by the hour. I have a PC400 with a hammer and that gets 200-250.00 per hour because it can really produce. My skidsteer gets around 105.00 per hour when breaking up concrete slabs.

If you fill a triaxle with 18 yds on a public job that would be 1500-1700.00 per load which is pretty decent money. Usually you get paid what the engineer calculates that you removed.

Alan


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## burntside bob (Sep 27, 2010)

I do not have a hammer, just drill and blast the ledge rock.
I have seen hammers shake the pins and bushing to the point that repair is a must on excavators, wonder what its doing to the boom and stick.
What has your experience been with the pins and bushings on your excavators when you use the hammers to break rock???
Always open to ideas of how to do work, am open to a hammer if its cost effective, and does not destroy the excavator.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Rock is always hourly for me, with daily minimums. For instance 2 1/2 days will be charged 3 days. I have to pay rental for the 3rd day, so will the customer.

If we suspect rock on a project, the costs per day are in the quote, so the customer will know going in what they will be looking at as far as costs go.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

ajbackhoe said:


> I have a PC400 with a hammer and that gets 200-250.00 per hour because it can really produce.


That is cheap.  I get $175/hr for our 315/hammer and I think I am too cheap on that. A 400 size hammer has to be over $100,000 to purchase.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

burntside bob said:


> I do not have a hammer, just drill and blast the ledge rock.
> I have seen hammers shake the pins and bushing to the point that repair is a must on excavators, wonder what its doing to the boom and stick.
> What has your experience been with the pins and bushings on your excavators when you use the hammers to break rock???
> Always open to ideas of how to do work, am open to a hammer if its cost effective, and does not destroy the excavator.


Hammers will increase wear on pins and bushings, there is no way around that. I've seen booms and stick that have cracked. I have also seen a stick on a Case 240 hoe crack just from digging in sand and gravel. I wouldn't put a hammer on a brand new machine. We put it on our Cat 315 that has 6,500hrs. 

We were always renting machine with hammers and it cost around $3,000/wk. plus our fuel and operator. When doing foundations, we had to make sure we hammered everything..... footers, utility ditches, any humps in the yard that had to come out. If you missed a couple feet of rock, you had to go rent the machine again and it might not be available and you gotta call around. It just got to be a pain. Now we can work at our leisure and not be pushed to get the machine back by the end of the week so we wouldn't get charged any extra day or week. 

Also, since the natural gas boom here in PA, finding a hammer to rent is hard to come by.


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## Nac (Apr 16, 2006)

If it is a public job you have to bid by the CY. Here I have seen it go from 80/cy to 3000/cy. it all depends what method you can use to remove the rock. We have a lot of places you can not blast and hammers wont even scratch the rock. As for hammering I get about 1200 for thr mini with a 900lb hammer and 2000 for excavator with 4000lb hammer.


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## CatD8T (Apr 26, 2011)

We typically do by the CY, but that is for larger amounts. For the quantity you are talking about, I would do on a T&M basis.

Rent a machine to put a hammer on especially if you are doing on a time basis.


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