# sharpen your pencil



## trav007 (Jan 25, 2008)

I guess buddy with the hungry comment wasnt' the "sharpest pencil in the box!"


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

You know, it's his tone in that audio recording that really bugs me. "WE HAVE to sharp the pencil on the price". No WE don't HAVE to.


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## W-Tinc (Feb 15, 2008)

Nothing wrong with that. He says he trusts you and wants you to do the job, which is nice.

Sure he wants a better deal, but from the message I can't tell how serious he is..could be he just wants to make sure the price you gave him is the best you can do, could be he thinks he should get 30% knocked off everything he buys as a way to earn his business, or anything in between.

He almost sounds a little embarrassed, Might just need a little reassurance and maybe a little extra thrown in somewhere on the job, something decorative but not too time consuming.

I try to always look at the sales end of it as a game(a very competitive game) and not take anything personally. I try to always remember I can't eat my ego, Its not very filling 

Wow!! That is a beautiful website you have btw


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

We get this all the time. (It doesn't help that a lot of fencers are the bottom of the barrel as far as contractors go. They are often one step away from bankruptcy. We priced a fence yesterday that two other fencers had lowballed for less than the price of materials. Riiiiiight. The client understood she'd been lowballed and we expect to get that contract.)

First, don't take offense. Shrug it off. There have been threads here about how other cultures want to dicker the price. The fact is that many Americans are the same way. 

Next, you have to find out what they want. Maybe there really are some costs you could cut and still have a happy customer. A cheaper wood, less ornate finish, the client stains the deck himself. This is called the "take-away". If the client really does need a cheaper price, and you can find a way to give it to him, everybody wins. If the client is really looking for the same deck for less money, well, the price is the price.

It's very hard for us to match lowballers, so we don't even try. If it's all about price, we don't even want to go there. If it's a matter of bringing the price down with some compromise on materials or labor (paint for board fence is expensive, for example) we might be able to win that contract.

edit: Bone Saw, your work is so beautiful that I suspect you might be able to find quite a few things to take away. Maybe this guy just wants *you*. But I sure wouldn't trade work for Pottery Barn crap. :laughing:


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

I received a letter in the mail last week from one of our suppliers to tell of all the materials price increases we can expect in the coming season. They had to smally size the print to fit one page. 

This inspires me to let them know I will be buying more so we need to lower the prices so I can.

As Susan said, you can sometimes make the deal by taking away to lower the cost. We sometimes pull that off without lowering our rates at all. Maybe even a slight increase to compensate the extra BS. But we make sure to specify that the customer does not start his work until after we are finished and left the site. I don't want any liability that belongs to the savings.

Good Luck 
Dave


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I just tell them that I use a pen, not a pencil.


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

actually, I believe he did ask if the deck could be simplified to lower cost per foot, so that he could afford more square feet. Asking the contractor to sharpen his pencil in the same conversation isn't a good idea though.


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## dkillianjr (Aug 28, 2006)

JumboJack said:


> UUGGGHHHH! I hate that "sharpen your pencil" crap!
> Sure I'll sharpen it,and poke you in the eye with it!


Thats what I was thinking too!:thumbup: 
I feel ya bone, I hate customers like that! I also hate the ones that ask if you are hungry or I have a lot of friends that also need work I will tell them about you. Or the best, Can you maybe do this on a weekend or on the side or when you are real slow in the winter. On the side!! I work for myself, no matter what time or day it is its work, not side work!:no:



Dave


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

dkillianjr said:


> I also hate the ones that ask if you are hungry or I have a lot of friends that also need work I will tell them about you.


Not to thread crap, but that has to be one of my ALL time favorites - "I/we have a lot of friends that need a deck too and if you give us a good price you'll get their deck too". Honestly, if I booked half of the "jobs" of the so called friends of those type of clients, I'd be booked until some time in the year 2020.

Why do people think that we're stupid enough to lower our prices because some "friend or relative" MIGHT want some work done some time in the coming decade!


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

conditioned to believe that haggling is a part of business. They also think that any monkey can do our job and they shouldn't have to pay a lot for something they can do but just don't have the time.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

kevjob said:


> conditioned to believe that haggling is a part of business. They also think that any monkey can do our job and they shouldn't have to pay a lot for *something they can do but just don't have the time.*


"Well sir,I do have the time.And here is what it's going to cost you."


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

Quality is like buying oats. If you want good, fresh oats, you’ll have to pay a fair price. If, however, you’re satisfied with oats that have already passed through the horse, you may be able to save a little money.


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

Quality is like buying oats. If you want good, fresh oats, you’ll have to pay a fair price. If, however, you’re satisfied with oats that have already passed through the horse, you may be able to save a little money


Love that quote, I need to remember that.:lol: Phil


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

Susan Betz said:


> Quality is like buying oats. If you want good, fresh oats, you’ll have to pay a fair price. If, however, you’re satisfied with oats that have already passed through the horse, you may be able to save a little money.



:laughing: :clap: :w00t: :notworthy

I got to remember that one!


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

The old "sharpen the pencil" routine used to bug me, now I fall back on something like "You know Mr. Sharppencil this deck is really going to look great on your house, but I understand wanting to watch costs so why don't we see how much we can save by using a lesser grade of lumber or a plainer rail system. That might get you a bigger deck for the same amount of money". Nobody I ever met chose the lower grade materials. They either S**T or get off the pot with that one.


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## Dmax Consulting (Jul 22, 2008)

That's funny. Ive never heard "sharpen your pencil." Im glad that I got this warning...I'm going make sure to only use pens.


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## sivak (Jul 6, 2008)

Like my Dad taught me
It's learning what jobs not to take that will make you successful in this business.
I don't mind someone being a smart shopper,but a cheap shopper just won't work in my book.
What most customers don't realize is alot of contractors don't want their work after meeting them and listening to the "sharpen your pencil" routine.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

You have Good, Fast and Cheap. Pick any two (not three) that you want and I'll work with that. 
Fast and Good but not Cheap.
Good and Cheap, it'll not be Fast.
Fast and Cheap, it'll not be Good.

They shut up about that time.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

I can understand asking for a lower per sq/ft price, but his ignorance of what it takes to add 150% of area is simply mind boggling. 

This is a prime example of how our trades are viewed as a market commodity with market driven prices as opposed to a cost based product. We don't sell widgets and pass along savings because you're upping your order by 150% and we can pass the freight/packing/handling savings on to you.

In fact, on a construction project, this can significantly drive up the per sq/ft price of the finished project by adding in additional expenses with silly things like site preparation, structural support, larger structural supports, access difficulties, material storage and delivery costs, etc.

Its important to educate your clients, but Chris, this guy knows it all. I would just send him an email that says something to the effect of, "Thanks for considering me for this project, however I feel that at this time we have too many fundamental differences and expectations for my company to be able to build out this project for you.

I wish you luck and hope you find someone more suited to your unique project needs. 

Regards,

Chris "I ain't working for no tightassed dinks" XXXXX


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

W-Tinc said:


> He almost sounds a little embarrassed, Might just need a little reassurance and maybe a little extra thrown in somewhere on the job, something decorative but not too time consuming.


He didn't sound embarrassed to me, he sounded like he was in a hurry and was trying to sound polished, but just stumbled over every point he was trying to make, "I've talked to my wife and some other people"... OK, so what did they say? Dunno, he never revisits that subject.

"We want to go with the black rails or whatever"... OK, or whatever what? Whatever you decide you want after they are installed and not what you had in mind?

This is a person that has self confidence issues and is used to talking from a script, not from the hip. This is another good reason to avoid doing business with him, as he does revisit the price issue several times, in order to be sure you have no doubts as to exactly what his buying objection is.

He's laid his cards on the table and his ace in the hole, and he's left with a pair of duces showing. He should have folded when Chris told him his company wasn't for him and he would not compromise. 

This idiot doesn't listen to anyone but himself and when he does, he only hears what he wants to hear. 

Listen again and see if you think its embarrassment or just a severe case of ADD. I think its ADD.


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