# concrete pad reinforcement



## rydndirty (Dec 19, 2014)

I live in Alaska, I had a 30x60 mono pad poured yesterday and it took 30 yards. I opted to use the fiber mesh over steel. after filling the footer and a 1/4 of the pad they realized the concrete supplier did not put the fiber mesh I ordered in the mix. needless to say I came unglued, I called the supplier and was told it would all be ok and reinforcement was over rated and that the concrete would be just fine......WHAT?. im not a concrete expert but I'm pretty FN sure that concrete and reinforcement go hand and hand.

my plan was to build a large steel building on this pad for sandblasting purpose's and will be bringing in large equipment dozer/loaders and such for blasting
so simple question "I'M I SCREWED"
remember I live in Alaska so we have extreme weather change with -40 temps and don't forget the earthquake's that are the norm.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

With the type of machinery you plan to place on that pad,6"of concrete with hefty steel (#5 IMHO) would be the base line. Fiber in my opinion is NOT a equal substitute for steel. Bottom line,you got neither,sooooo yes you are on thin ice.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I'd say your concrete supplier is paying to tear out yesterdays work and replace with what was ordered....better hope they have E&O insurance.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Sounds like you got a free batch of concrete.


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## NJGC (Apr 5, 2014)

I think you messed up ordering fiber instead of steel......maybe split the cost of the tear out and start over.


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## rydndirty (Dec 19, 2014)

split the cost? I'm the end user "the customer" and I wont be splitting any cost. if it needs to be redone its on there dime not mine. not to mention we have a very short building season here. thanks


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## NJGC (Apr 5, 2014)

rydndirty said:


> split the cost? I'm the end user "the customer" and I wont be splitting any cost. if it needs to be redone its on there dime not mine. not to mention we have a very short building season here. thanks


Sorry, sounded like you had a hand in the pour or at least the specifications on the mix. Even if they had not forgotten the fiber you'd be screwed. Fiber is a poor choice for reinforcing a slab to be used in the conditions you describe.


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## rydndirty (Dec 19, 2014)

yeah I had a hand in the specification on the recommendation from the concrete supplier saying fiber was the way to go and save my money on the wire mesh because it "wasn't " needed.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm from Alaska. Poured a handful of mono slabs in Fairbanks. Soldotna is beautiful.

These are the facts: 

The supplier owes you a tear out and repour because they didn't deliver what you requested.

As the GC, you made the wrong call going with fiber, which helps mostly with shrinkage cracks during curing.

If a higher elevation is acceptable, you may be able to keep what's there and pour a new reinforced slab on top. On their dime of course.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Actually, fiber increases shear, compression, and tensile strengths. What it can not do is provide continuous reinforcement through the slab. Tear it out, schedule a rebar mat AND fiber and start over.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

So who is the engineer that signed off on this? Can't imagine a permit was issued in that region on a failure waiting to happen? But I'm in the lower 48, the methods and means must be much different in your neck?


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## TLP (Jun 17, 2013)

Golden view said:


> I'm from Alaska. Poured a handful of mono slabs in Fairbanks. Soldotna is beautiful.
> 
> These are the facts:
> 
> ...


Right, perhaps depending on sub-structure but hire a PE.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

rydndirty said:


> split the cost? I'm the end user "the customer" and I wont be splitting any cost. if it needs to be redone its on there dime not mine. not to mention we have a very short building season here. thanks


Who drew those plans? Sounds like some napkin engineering to me. Fiber is not the same as steel. Ever see them do a bridge with no steel?

I think you should pay to rip out the whole thing because you think you know everything, now after this you will at least know about concrete.


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## rydndirty (Dec 19, 2014)

JBM......Thanks for such a positive and informative reply to my post and taking the time out of your busy day to insight me on my lack of knowledge in the concrete industry. Maybe if I hired a pro like yourself instead of the people I did hire I wouldn't be in this predicament but being an uneducated hillbilly from Alaska I still wouldn't hire someone so high on there horse with their god like attitude that blames customers for the mistakes. Go change your pad your dripping


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

For your intended use fiber or 6X6X 10 would have all been chit.You would need a substantial slab with some rebar and a good mix for your intended use.The batch plant may have screwed uo but in MHO you did not do your research and screwed yourself too.
What was the design?The mix? And the reinfrorcment you intended to use?


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

Just read your reply to others after I posted mine.Nobody here intends to PUO as far as I know.Maybe you should have done a little more research or had a little more knowledge before taking on this project.Just saying?No one on this list likes to see something fail but when it does it is usually for lack of experience or knowledge or trying to get by cheap.
Pick one or two or maybe all three .We don't know.I can assure you that most of the people on this board are here to help and give sound advice and share information.Nobody here wants to see anyone fail.
Take responsibility for your own actions.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

Ask questions and have a plan before doing not after. 

Just seems like a common theme here of late whether it's a customer or a fellow tradesman. And no, no high horse here just voicing thoughts.

To the subject at hand. They didn't supply the fibers and the fact that they told you they were not needed is enough ammo just for a matter of principal, to have them tear it out and replace.

Steel, mesh, 6 inches thick and fibers would all address your concerns. I, personally, would also thicken the entrances to the shop/building since you mentioned some large equipment. 

Reason being is it's a transition from the garage onto the drive surface. Same reason the approach, the area between the street and sidewalk is 6 inches thick and the rest of the driveway is 4". That shift in motion etc is pretty high end and at the end of the day the thickened slab in that area will definitely not hurt.

I advise personally walking into the concrete dispatch office today and resolving the issue at hand.

Best wishes.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

no permit, no plans, no inspections and I'm on a high horse? Ay least you butchered your own project.


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

I put wire mats and rebar in everything I pour. Weather it be a sidewalk or slab. 

The day after you pour, is a day to late to worry about it.

Fiber is certainly not a substitute for steel.....


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## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

Did you stop the pour after you found out no fiber was in the concrete? 

As others said, you need steel in a pour like that


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