# Owner locked me out.



## Newme (Aug 11, 2006)

I need a lawyer who handles contractor's issues. I'm in Northern California.

I was locked out of the home and subsiquently terminated. Owner said he was hiring someone else to finish project and then would back charge me for the cost. We had some serious challenges with my business and got behind on the project but were within 60 days of completion. The owner said I was not keeping the schedule (which is debateable) as the circumstances of the delay were discussed with the owner and he was aware of the challenges and had agreed to be patient while I worked on his and other projects at the same time to get back up to speed. I never pulled off the job and tried desperately to make him happy. But all of a sudden he made demands for delivery of all the cabinets within a week that he knew were not built. And basicly made it impossible to do. I tried everything I could humanly try to come to an understanding but he would not budge. He locked me out and confiscated all of my tools and equipment and told me he would hire another contractor, have the project finished and sue me and ruin my life. I swear I've done eveything possible to get the job done and make him happy. The job was taking too long but most of it was beyond my control. I don't know what to do to protect my business. I don't know what he can do or is doing to my bond etc. or is doing at the state board. I need advice and wisdom as my whole livelihood is at stake!

Steve


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

Newme said:


> The job was taking too long but most of it was beyond my control.


One of the keys to this whole situation will be defining exactly what was "beyond your control". I say this because you've listed your trade as "general", so that puts pretty much everything that you've contracted for "under your control". 

Care to elaborate on what caused the delays and led to this eventual lockout?

BTW- Finding a good construction lawyer in CA shouldn't be too hard- you can't swing a dead cat in CA without hitting a lawyer or a treehugger..........

Bob


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Newme - i haven't first-hand experienced this --- but I know someone who has (they got corkscrewed in the end and eventually moved)


i heard two different stories from them ... and in the end - i felt no sympathy for them



what's your story?

what took so long, etc.


BE HONEST


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

Bob...thats funny.

Newme, your contract should have contingencies for delays. If the delays fall within those parameters, then you are good from a legal standpoint.

Regardless, you have been fired and nothing will change the fact because it will cost you $$more than its probably worth. Hopefully you will be able to obtain your tools back and move on.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

The way I look at it you are both in the wrong. He stole y our tools and you didn't deliver as promised on your agreed schedule. Why were you working multiple projects when one was behind schedule?


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## Newme (Aug 11, 2006)

I was going through a divorce and was already struggling financialy and the job situation just took a nosedive at about the same time. Ironically, things have just recently taken off. I was seriuosly thinking bankruptsy up till now. But had actually been progressing on the project in question. 

I can't be anything but honest. It gets me in trouble but I can't sleep at night otherwise


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## Newme (Aug 11, 2006)

The contract had nothing regarding a schedule.
He hired someone to install the windows in Dec. when they were part of our agreement. So I didn't make a stink because I was trying to play catch up and keep them happy. He violated the contract.

Steve


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

In my state him taking/locking up your tools is a crimial offense and the owner of the tools could have him arrested. The rest would be civil.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Newme said:


> The contract had nothing regarding a schedule.
> He hired someone to install the windows in Dec. when they were part of our agreement. So I didn't make a stink because I was trying to play catch up and keep them happy. He violated the contract.
> 
> Steve


New,
How long were the windows sitting there waiting for you to install?


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## Newme (Aug 11, 2006)

I went to them to get the money for the window order and they said not to worry about it because they had signed a contract with another company. Because I was already at their mercy because of the delays I didn't make waves. I did tell them that they had made my situation worse as they had taken profit and labor money away from me. But they said it was too late as they had already signed and paid the window cotractor.

Steve


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

I had this problem with a psycho homeowner.(Another reason I REFUSE to do home improvement, and have so much respect for the men and women who have the knack to deal with em and do it)

She confiscated my tools and I had a cop escort me to the door, than she called me later and said I "maniplulated" the cop into arresting her if she didn't cough em up. Come to find out she did the same thing to 3 other contractors before me, got the work done, found something wrong or MADE something wrong and than threatened to sue if she didn't get all her money back plus more for "damages". I have a long thread about it somewhere lol. But he cannot legally keep your tools, they are your property. But trust me, everything else will be civil


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Repossesing your tools is theft and you should and MUST file a police report for every stinking item down to the friggin nail.

Also, ck your CA laws. There is a legally proper method to terminate a contract and it has to be done in writing notifying you of the lack of following the agreed upon schedule and performance standards. In Illinois, you would have 7 days to bring the schedule and standards up to snuff or else it is an illegal termination.

Also, place a lien on the property, first with your intent to lien notice and then your sworn statement of all vendors and subcontractors and other materialmen who functioned on that project. File a claim for the improper termination and also for unjustly lost profits. You have to be extremely specific about actual costs quoted and OH & P ontop of that. You obviously need the advice of a competant construction litigation attorney.

Good Luck, if you were in the right,

Ed


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## AbeBarker (Jan 3, 2007)

sounds like your not giving the full story


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## ultimatetouch (May 27, 2006)

What kind of project was it?


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## Newme (Aug 11, 2006)

master bed/ bath remodel, all new windows and convert bed to complete office including all cabinetry. We were doing everything in house except the tile work and the shower enclosure. We build custom cabinetry as well as remodeling.


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## Newme (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't want anyone to think I was perfect here, I got behind schedule-wise and financially. When it was obvious we were going to have delay problems I went and sat down with them and spilled the beans about everything, including my divorse and short comings. The owner called his lawer who told him to work with me even if it took awhile. Again, I was in the middle of a divorce and was struggling financialy as well. I was not in a good position emotionally or financially and was struggling to stay alive and viable. It is not their fault that this happened I readily take responsibility. We were advised to work together by his own lawyer. So we worked out a tentative schedule based on me having to do outside work in order to fund and complete the project. I was still within the general time-line and was even excited about the up turn in business as I was going to be able to not only survive the whole mess but get the project done and move on. So I caused the mess but was getting the project done as we had agreed when he pulled the plug. I was 4-6 weeks from completion. I was to have the Armoire for the sewing room delivered by the end of April. I had informed him that I would need to push the master closet cabinets into the first week of April along with the Armoire. But that the schedule for the rest of the master bed/bath would be complete by the end of March as agreed. He blew a cork and locked me out. He demanded all of the remaining cabinets be delivered to his garage by the end of this week (the demand was made on 2-28). I tried to get him to adjust his demand and mapped out the best case senario for the completion of the project. For some reson he would not budge from the cab demand. If he would have allowed two extra weeks into April and not demanded the cabs be delivered this week, we would not be here. But he would not budge. He wanted me out, period and was desperately trying to get me to quit. But I have had every intention of finishing and was doing so. It was a very difficult thing to do under all of the circumstances and I know I caused the problems. But I have been open and honest about everything and was very close to wrapping this up. That's why I am perplexed, he knew evey detail of my situation, I felt I owed them that. So why when my personal and financial state had vastly improved would he sabitage the project when we were so close? I know this was a drain on them but there was no financial damage to them. My conscience is clear, I made mistakes but I was also killing myself to keep my promises. I just want to be wise, for once, and not stick my head in the sand. I'm not looking to hurt the customer but he has threatened to destroy me and I would be a fool to just let it happen. I can't prove my integity to you guys here because you don't know me, but I am the guy who ends up getting the shaft in life because I am too soft. I know that I need to harden myself and be more business-like but I won't compromise my heart.

Steve


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

AbeBarker said:


> sounds like your not giving the full story


i agree

pardon the cynicism ... newme -

you said you were going through a divorce and having financial problems


i'd get pretty sick and tired of hearing that excuse if I were the HO--- in fact, hearing it once is bad enough

I'd think "I DON'T care -- finish my f**kin house"


your problems are NOT their problems


that's no better than an employee coming in late and saying "oh well i broke up with my girlfriend and the wife's in jail for hittin me --- oh and i can't pay the rent"




you were having financial trouble ... ok .... so you were using draws to pay old bills - meanwhile bumming from peter to pay paul just so you could buy the materials to get ahead in THIS job??

Am I right??

Or was it 90 days of rain???


not bein harsh - i could care less honestly - im just playing the devil's advocate for you.


but everyone has problems. suck it up. SOMEONE SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU COULD GET THE JOB DONE


and you DID NOT.

i'd lock you out too (but i'd leave your tools outside in the driveway btw) --- and im pretty laid back




Newme - tell me something --- why do you DESERVE to be allowed to continue on this job???


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

uufffhhh, what a mess.
Well first and formost you HAVE to get your tools back. Go to the police station close to his residence. File a report and ask for the escort to get them. Make a very detailed list of your tools there. This guy may have pawned some of them already so watch out. If the police give you the run around you need a lawyer to crack the whip. As for the job, that is most likley done with. Get past that and start to cover ur ass. Write everything down with dates, and for God sakes say nothing else to the client. Your on a black and white situation now. Imagine being able to prove to a judge your sob story, judges don't care about you or your situation, just what you can prove. The contact you say you made with client is important, and the continuious progress on the job. From what you say, you didn't just leave the job completely and that shows intent to finish. Youyr client got fed up for what ever reason, and he cannot sue you for another contractor to come in and finish the job. No judge in his right mind would do that, and I don't think they can even if they wanted to. 
However the longer you wait to file a police report the worse it will be for you. He is now directly causing you to loose money because he stole your tools, he can't do that, just like you can't pull the siding off because he didn't pay you...make sense?

You can go to a civil court and have actual damages in black and white to prove he caused you loss, THAT"S WHAT judges want to see.

You don't need to compromise your heart to be sucessful in business. You do need to make the best decisions for your business that you can. You may also want to consider taking pictures if you can get back into the house because you know all the other contractors this guy gets in there is going to bad mouth you to hell, pictures is your defense.

Good Luck guy


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

What was taking the project so long? Was it because you were trying to get other jobs done at the same time??? Or was it because it was a really high end projeect or something??


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

You will only get useless advice and grief on the intertardnet. Get a lawyer, put on your big girl panties and take care of it.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Tscarborough said:


> You will only get useless advice and grief on the intertardnet. Get a lawyer, put on your big girl panties and take care of it.


lol, intertardnet ...

that was so "forced":laughing:


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

I am curious of how long you have been in business, and how the homeowner knows/got into contact with you.


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

I feel for you with the divorce thing because my first wife and I were going through a divorce when I fist started my business. The good sign from God was the night she left I got a call an hour later from a huge design build company. We had no kids so no money out there as well we were renting. She ruined the credit, but that can be repaired.

Ok off that tangent. As far as homeowners go and this is all I do is repaints. No matter how nice they seem and understanding they do not want to hear problems in your life are affecting their project to not be completed. I had one bad experience with this and it taught me a lessn. Man up and get the job done on time. If the job is delayed because of ad ons and so forth then thats to be understood under a new contract being specific of this. Always complete in order of signed contract unless it becomes unable to do so and operate under a new contract. They can not keep your tools as well as they are in fault of adding work to be done without a contract. Both of you should be at fault for that, but learn from this and go through the legal process. Be as cordial as you can and civil.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Are we talking about a bucket of mud and a paint brush or $3000 worth of tools? 

You started this project in Jan of Feb and they need to wait until April for their cabinets? I would be pissed not having a bedroom for a few months unless i agreed to it when the contract was signed.


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## Melissa (Feb 23, 2006)

JamesNLA said:


> uufffhhh, what a mess.
> Well first and formost you HAVE to get your tools back. Go to the police station close to his residence. File a report and ask for the escort to get them. Make a very detailed list of your tools there. This guy may have pawned some of them already so watch out. If the police give you the run around you need a lawyer to crack the whip. As for the job, that is most likley done with. Get past that and start to cover ur ass. Write everything down with dates, and for God sakes say nothing else to the client. Your on a black and white situation now. Imagine being able to prove to a judge your sob story, judges don't care about you or your situation, just what you can prove. The contact you say you made with client is important, and the continuious progress on the job. From what you say, you didn't just leave the job completely and that shows intent to finish. Youyr client got fed up for what ever reason, and he cannot sue you for another contractor to come in and finish the job. No judge in his right mind would do that, and I don't think they can even if they wanted to.
> However the longer you wait to file a police report the worse it will be for you. He is now directly causing you to loose money because he stole your tools, he can't do that, just like you can't pull the siding off because he didn't pay you...make sense?
> 
> ...


I think this is really good advice. 

Definitely call the police to get your tools back asap. 

How much money are you out? Would it be worthwhile to take them to court? Do you think you have the grounds to file a lien on their property? 

I wouldn't worry too much about them "back charging you". I dont think they can send you to collections or anything like that. But they might sue you for it, so make sure you're prepared to defend yourself - the picture idea is very good. 

Good luck.


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## marc (Mar 18, 2005)

Newme said:


> I don't want anyone to think I was perfect here, I got behind schedule-wise and financially. When it was obvious we were going to have delay problems I went and sat down with them and spilled the beans about everything, including my divorse and short comings. The owner called his lawer who told him to work with me even if it took awhile. Again, I was in the middle of a divorce and was struggling financialy as well. I was not in a good position emotionally or financially and was struggling to stay alive and viable. It is not their fault that this happened I readily take responsibility. We were advised to work together by his own lawyer. So we worked out a tentative schedule based on me having to do outside work in order to fund and complete the project. I was still within the general time-line and was even excited about the up turn in business as I was going to be able to not only survive the whole mess but get the project done and move on. So I caused the mess but was getting the project done as we had agreed when he pulled the plug. I was 4-6 weeks from completion. I was to have the Armoire for the sewing room delivered by the end of April. I had informed him that I would need to push the master closet cabinets into the first week of April along with the Armoire. But that the schedule for the rest of the master bed/bath would be complete by the end of March as agreed. He blew a cork and locked me out. He demanded all of the remaining cabinets be delivered to his garage by the end of this week (the demand was made on 2-28). I tried to get him to adjust his demand and mapped out the best case senario for the completion of the project. For some reson he would not budge from the cab demand. If he would have allowed two extra weeks into April and not demanded the cabs be delivered this week, we would not be here. But he would not budge. He wanted me out, period and was desperately trying to get me to quit. But I have had every intention of finishing and was doing so. It was a very difficult thing to do under all of the circumstances and I know I caused the problems. But I have been open and honest about everything and was very close to wrapping this up. That's why I am perplexed, he knew evey detail of my situation, I felt I owed them that. So why when my personal and financial state had vastly improved would he sabitage the project when we were so close? I know this was a drain on them but there was no financial damage to them. My conscience is clear, I made mistakes but I was also killing myself to keep my promises. I just want to be wise, for once, and not stick my head in the sand. I'm not looking to hurt the customer but he has threatened to destroy me and I would be a fool to just let it happen. I can't prove my integity to you guys here because you don't know me, but I am the guy who ends up getting the shaft in life because I am too soft. I know that I need to harden myself and be more business-like but I won't compromise my heart.
> 
> Steve



I just finished a book this morning. You NEED to read this book. It's called Shut up, Stop whining and get a life. It's acctually a very good book.

Got to be honest............Who gives a **** about your divorce or financial problems? I'm sure the owner doesn't. I know I don't. Why would you go into it with one of your customers. All I hear is "It's not my fault, It's never my fault. I'ts beyond my control ohh always me, Why does this kind of stuff always happen to me?"" How about looking into the mirror, pointing at your self and saying "I'm responsible" Besides taking your tools, I'm with the home owner on this one. One thing you need to learn is your word is the only thing you have. Do what you say and keep your promises. I can't believe I'm reading about this on a BB and I am shocked that anyone would take pitty on you.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

marc said:


> I just finished a book this morning. You NEED to read this book. It's called Shut up, Stop whining and get a life. It's acctually a very good book.
> 
> Got to be honest............Who gives a **** about your divorce or financial problems? I'm sure the owner doesn't. I know I don't. Why would you go into it with one of your customers. All I hear is "It's not my fault, It's never my fault. I'ts beyond my control ohh always me, Why does this kind of stuff always happen to me?"" How about looking into the mirror, pointing at your self and saying "I'm responsible" Besides taking your tools, I'm with the home owner on this one. One thing you need to learn is your word is the only thing you have. Do what you say and keep your promises. I can't believe I'm reading about this on a BB and I am shocked that anyone would take pitty on you.



:thumbup: :thumbup: :clap: :clap: 


like i said - all he did was take money from another business who had their sh*t together


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## Newme (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks for the help everyone, including you perfect people out there. Nice to know there are people out there who have it all together and can pass on their sage advice to us f***-ups. 

Steve


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Newme said:


> Thanks for the help everyone, including you perfect people out there. Nice to know there are people out there who have it all together and can pass on their sage advice to us f***-ups.
> 
> Steve


Welcome to the forum Steve.:thumbup:


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Newme said:


> Thanks for the help everyone, including you perfect people out there. Nice to know there are people out there who have it all together and can pass on their sage advice to us f***-ups.
> 
> Steve


everyone makes mistakes --- so GET OFF the whole "victim" thing

i take a deuce in the morning just like everyone else. Sometimes two of them - depending on last night's dinner



But -- *YOU came on here for some advice*. I gave you mine.
That's the beauty of having 5,000 people available on here to give you advice, right???

So when you open your closet door --- either make sure all your clothes are hanging neatly, boxes are organized and stacked


and if they're not --- do not be offended when someone criticizes you for having crumbs on the floor

cuz you're the one that opened the door in the first place ...


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Newme,

Re: advice.

Take what you need, not necessarily what you want. All of the advice was correct from varying points of view.

Do the next right thing to be efficient and productive and you will have learned much. 

Speak with an attorney, as I don't think he will be as cheap as us. Therefor, you get what you pay for.

Ed


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Everyone comes in here looking for some help. Some stay when they find it. *We have all had are pants down at one point or another on here. *

Welcome to the site! 


BTW- AA classes are held in the chat room Friday's from 9pm (EST)-11pm. ALNON classes are Saturday from 11am -2pm. Ego building classes are being held in most of the forums all day long.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

it's not even so much an ego thing Doug

yeah - i am no rose myself - i didn't read a book on this stuff - i learned after f**k ups and will continue to expect mistakes - 


but to come on and ask for advice - and then get it -- and THEN turn around and get offended by it

forget that

or else --- pay me for the 5 minutes of attention i gave

(with a 15 minute minimum of course)


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Newme said:


> Thanks for the help everyone, including you perfect people out there. Nice to know there are people out there who have it all together and can pass on their sage advice to us f***-ups.
> 
> Steve


Dirt, I took his post at face value! Are you sure that he is kidding?

We helped him, he said thank you.

He said that some of are perfect, not sure if I even posted, how would he know about me? But ok, maybe someone else is perfect:whistling 

He referred to himself as a xxxxxxx, that is why I mentioned the ego building classes.


I am certain that his post was sincere!


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

oh ... i didn't see the smiley face


again NewMe - sorry for any harshness

but I'd pay money for someone to walk around with me all day and slap me in the head when I need to be

see my point?


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

So far in the first 2 years of business there were a couple jobs that i hit unforseen circumstances. Unfortunately i had nothing about them in my contract and never mentioned anything to the customer before signing the contract.

On both of those jobs i swalled my pride and ate the unforseen circumstances. I figured it would be unproffessional to handle it any other way.


Now your situation is completly different. But you must seperate work and personal. If you told the customer 2 months and it takes four because of your personal life, he has every right to be mad.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

How did you get into an issue with the time table if there wasn't one specified in the contract? 

I think this all goes back to what is in your contract because it sounds to me as if you don't have anything to CYA in your contract. 
Also, you probably should have stopped work when the customer breached the (non?)existing contract and brought another contractor in to do what you should have had a signed contract for, right? If you did indeed have a signed contract for the work, giving up part of the job for the time table wouldn't have made an issue because the supposed contract didn't have a specific start and completion date. 

If you are in a verbal agreement, you are toast on this one. Get your tools back and move on. 

I could be wrong...but I'm just voicing my opinion.

Remember, there's a reason it's _*CONTRACT*_ors.......


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Let me paraphrase for you:

I'm not your wife, your parole officer, or the maintenance man on your car, so what does that have to do with me? That is what I tell guys who give excuses for whatever they have done that does not involve me, but affects me. It is like asking for a raise because you need more money?!


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## Driftwood (Feb 15, 2004)

*I also live in N.CA. Marin Co*

I belong to the Builders exchange. They have a list of attys. that practice
const. law. Call them ,Protect your license!

Marin co builders exchange San Rafael ca. good luck


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

1] It's a criminal offence to confiscate your tools
2] If there was no written schedule, he had no grounds to terminate you. Had a customer who felt that we took too long to do the fence. (she was right, to be honest). However, she though because it took too long, she didn't have to pay. there were NO complaints about the actual work, and all her neighbours paid. At small claims, the judge was on my side, and I got costs, AND interest as well.
3] If he had a contract with you that included windows, he had no right to go elsewhere without first telling you. I had this once. I had a two year contract with a condo development for fencing. Did the first year, got paid, the management changed and ignored the contract. In fact they even wanted the deposit back. They got someone else to do it. I took them to small claims for "lost profit" and I won.
4] Sounds like you have a big fight ahead of you. How much does he owe you? If it won't break you, you might well forget it, as legals will cost a fortune.
If it will break you, then go after him with every thing you've got.
5] Write down EVERYTHING that happened, with dates. do it NOW. Judges love that stuff.
6] As a homeowner, it is simply NOT my problem whatever goes on in your personal life. Material shortages, suppliers taking forever to make cabinets, subcontractor no shows, equipment breakdowns, weather: you can't control that.
Just plain not showing up, and getting weeks behind because of personal problems, is hard for a homeowner to accept, regardless how honest you've been.
I'm trying to be impartial. However, I agree with the others: there's something missing from this story.
Good luck!


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Maybe there's not anything missing...

As I said in a earlier post, and in another thread, I was in something almost identical to this when I got started(except I wasn't a no show for months)...

The first job I ever did was a basement for a homeowner. It started out as just insulation, 25 sheets, hang,finish,sand,done. There was also some demo that needed to be done before I could hang. Than she wanted me to install the new ceiling tiles in the basement. Than she wanted to me to do the painting I said fine, since the contracts weren't signed, I drew up the proposals, one for the drywall, one for the painting. ALSO, there was a spot on the wall in her kitchen that was damaged due to water. So I gave her a price to do it, asked her if she wanted to see my license and insurance info,she said no. Than she didn't like the price and said I only have this much. And being *inexperienced* I combined all the proposals into one big contract(MISTAKE). Another MISTAKE I made was I let her dictate to me what she was going to pay. She said what she was going to pay, and like a *inexperienced* business man I complied. So we sign the contracts with NO completion date stated. So I went in on the first day and began to demo, after about 3 hours she calls me up to run to home depot. So I go and come back, and she wants me to take her to home depot to do some color matching, ok no problem. Next day the materials arrived, and I brought a helper with me. Since I was just starting out I didn't have any credit with any suppliers except one but only for a max. of I think $1500.00, so she bought materials from home depot. When they arrived I had way more insulation and not enough ceiling tiles, she says she'll take care of it. So we bring in all the insulation, the ceiling tiles, and the corner bead. When we get to the drywall we bring in a book figuring it'll be faster, it wasn't. The way they house was designed I couldn't get them in through the basement stairway because it was to narrow. We tried bringing them in through the house, but there was alot of narrow spaces and not enough room to swing the sheets into the basement through from the stairway. So I asked her and decided to move them up into the yard and ran to HD to get a tarp, and told her we will take the measurements and cut the sheets outside, she said fine. Than I asked her what she wanted to do about the trash, she said she will get a roll-off in because of the roof, and the work she had going on in the back of her house, so I said fine. So we spent about half a day getting that all straightened out. Than while she had me BACK upstairs doing something my helper who was a roofer by trade and her got talking, and she and him made a verbal agreement for him to fix her roof. So the next day i'm down there working and she has him up there allll day long instead of helping me,so she can decide what kind of shingles she wants and so on.and again, like the *inexperienced* business man I was,and not wanting to upset the customer I never went up and said I need him down here. So for the next few days things go fine, and I work, he does the roof over the weekend. Than during demo while tearing out a piece of sheetrock an outlet that was never grounded or screwed to the framing drops on me and electricutes the s**t outta me, so I inform them and give them my electricians number. Than she spends an entire day keeping me up there to draw pictures for her insurance company. Than the next day I come in and the kitchen repair I was supposed to do is done, she said she decided to do it herself, but she decides she wants me to do the cabinets and countertops,doors and frames and trim, so the money I lost there in my mind was compensated. Coming up as a general contractor working for my father it's nothing I can't handle, even today. So with the thought of having more work in my mind I said sure. So for the next 2 days she has me either upstairs or at HD with her picking things out and explaining everything to her so she understands "how it is going to go", and has me break down the price to the penny, and like an *inexperienced* business man,I comply. So now 2 weeks has gone by. I get in and FINALLY have a good 3 or 4 days of work and I finally can see daylight in this project. One day I see a wire on the floor, I ask her what it is, because if it was dead I would pull it out instead of hiding it behind the wall, she picks it up and says "oh its a phone line, its good" so I leave it alone and never touch it again. Than we have a bad ice storm that has everyone indoors for 2 days. So Monday I go in with the intention of finally getting the drywall hung out,.without getting both feet in the door she goes crazy on me "YOU'VE BEEN HERE TO LONG YOU SAID IT WOULD BE DONE IN 7 DAYS, THIER BRINGING MY FURNITURE BACK ON SATURDAY I NEED THIS DONE BY FRIDAY BLAH BLAH BLAH" I said that it would have been in 7 days,had you not included all this extra work. I never did say anything about all the time she had me doing things other than the job at hand, only because I didn't want to stir up anything else. She said that they decided that I not do anything by the drywall and ceiling tile,that they were going to do the painting,doors,cabinets,trim,and the framing that needed to be fixed won't be, don't level up the drywall,etc... I said "well all thats fine mame, but we DO have a contract for the painting" she said "psshh, after all this time that contract means nothing, and since we are doing it we are deducting that off of your final draw". Than she adds "and that trash is becoming a problem we need it out" I nicely replied "yes it is, but you said you would get a roll-off" she says "I said nothing of the sort,get it out". THAN she says "why is the drywall outside still, shouldn't it be in?" I said "no we discussed this, you said ok when I asked to leave them outside because we cannot get them inside short of cutting all of them @ 48"" she replied "NO I NEVER DID!, GET THEM INSIDE" So by now I have had enough I say fine and we just get to work, my helper started sheetrocking and I had gone to start insulating the exterior and I realized she didn't have the staples I needed that I had asked her to get various times. She comes down and throws 10 bucks at my helper and says "tell matt to go get his damn staples" so I do. I get back, not 10 minutes and she says "I need to see your license" I said now? she said yes. So for the person that is screaming to get this done, she again had me running all over God's creation all day long. So after I get back I say "is everything ok NOW? she says yes. So than I finally got to work, and we got all the insulation in,rock hung. She came down later with pizza and an apology. so we are ready for the tiles. So I go up to her and I say, how do you expect me to put in 90 ceiling tiles, with 2 boxes of 8? she said well wait, i'll call them in and you go get them. ANOTHER trip. Well it never happened because after keeping me upstairs for 30 minutes she decides to wait. She had the tiles that are spray painted on the front, so if you cut wrong, it peels the face off, I hate them. So it never happens. She takes a look around. We leave, she seems very pleased

*FLASH FORWARD:* I get a call that night saying that she wants me off the property, there are gaps in the sheetrock(due to me not leveling it up, at her request)and there's no way you can finish a 3/8'' gap, the drywall was pieced togeather in some spots instead of full sheets(due to not letting me re-frame like I needed to in order for the sheets to break off right) ceiling tiles aren't in(duh),etc,etc..totally flippin out. she says shes had enough,my tools well be in the yard in the morning, come get em, if I try to talk to her or come to her door, she will call the police. So I go to get them in the morning, there not there but there is a note for me "on the door" saying that she is holding my tools "hostage" til I pay her back for the damages. So I do a little research that day and find out she had done this to 3 contractors before me. got the work done, found stupid problems, or MADE problems, and threatened to sue if she didn't get the money back plus more. So I call the cops, have one come to my house, cop calls her sayin she needs to give them back, she can't keep them, she FLIPS on the cop. so he says call a precinct in her district and have him meet you there and escort you, so I do. I get my tools back, she calls me that night saying I "manipulated" the cop into threatening to arrest her husband, when the cop didn't say a thing except that the tools were my property and they needed to give them back. So for the next two weeks I get about 8 harrassing VM's and 3 faxes with like $10,000 of "damages" like "replace phone wire I ripped out of the wall" and "replace hanging outlet I ripped off framing", "replace bi-fold doors that were broken", "the $1100.00 I "stole" from my helper doing the roof," which was an agreement made by them, I had no involvment. In short all BLATANT lies. So she threatened and threatened to take me to civil court, and sayin she would ruin me. I spoke with an attorney and had him lined up in case..nothing ever came to it. She was just a bully, and when she saw that I wasn't giving in, or returning her calls, or money, she gave up.

Sorry about the INSANLY long post, but point is, sometimes you just get a *crrraaazzzyyy* homeowner. and an *inexperienced* person can lead himself inside some death traps. Now this man's problem wasn't like mine, I showed up everyday and project was put off because of the HO's needs, but it was the exact legal troubles.10 years has past since this incedent, but I remember it like yesterday. Biggest learning block in my life. I am a MUCH better business man these days, and alot of it came from the mistakes on that job.

**and as I have said in so many other posts, it is this and some other situations why I *won't* do home improvement work, in any *way,shape,or form*. and *BRAVO* to the men and women who have the knack to deal with homeowners, I respect you...**


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

*Leo 'Mud Master' Tolstoy over here*



Mud Master said:


> ...Sorry about the INSANLY long post...


Thanks for taking the time to tell your story. I am new to contracting and a tale such as yours helps me be aware of the potential pitfalls. Thanks Mud Man.


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

You wanted to bang her, didn't you?

-------

Pages and pages and pages of "she did this, that, this, the other, like.....



Mud Master said:


> Maybe there's not anything missing...
> 
> The first job I ever did was a basement for a homeowner. It started out as just insulation, 25 sheets, hang,finish,sand,done. There was also some demo that needed to be done before I could hang. Than she wanted me to install the new ceiling tiles in the basement. Than she wanted to me to do the painting I said fine, since the contracts weren't signed, I drew up the proposals, one for the drywall, one for the painting. ALSO, there was a spot on the wall in her kitchen that was damaged due to water. So I gave her a price to do it, asked her if she wanted to see my license and insurance info,she said no. Than she didn't like the price and said I only have this much. And being *inexperienced* I combined all the proposals into one big contract(MISTAKE). Another MISTAKE I made was I let her dictate to me what she was going to pay. She said what she was going to pay, and like a *inexperienced* business man I complied. So we sign the contracts with NO completion date stated. So I went in on the first day and began to demo, after about 3 hours she calls me up to run to home depot. So I go and come back, and she wants me to take her to home depot to do some color matching, ok no problem. Next day the materials arrived, and I brought a helper with me. Since I was just starting out I didn't have any credit with any suppliers except one but only for a max. of I think $1500.00, so she bought materials from home depot. When they arrived I had way more insulation and not enough ceiling tiles, she says she'll take care of it. So we bring in all the insulation, the ceiling tiles, and the corner bead. When we get to the drywall we bring in a book figuring it'll be faster, it wasn't. The way they house was designed I couldn't get them in through the basement stairway because it was to narrow. We tried bringing them in through the house, but there was alot of narrow spaces and not enough room to swing the sheets into the basement through from the stairway. So I asked her and decided to move them up into the yard and ran to HD to get a tarp, and told her we will take the measurements and cut the sheets outside, she said fine. Than I asked her what she wanted to do about the trash, she said she will get a roll-off in because of the roof, and the work she had going on in the back of her house, so I said fine. So we spent about half a day getting that all straightened out. Than while she had me BACK upstairs doing something my helper who was a roofer by trade and her got talking, and she and him made a verbal agreement for him to fix her roof. So the next day i'm down there working and she has him up there allll day long instead of helping me,so she can decide what kind of shingles she wants and so on.and again, like the *inexperienced* business man I was,and not wanting to upset the customer I never went up and said I need him down here. So for the next few days things go fine, and I work, he does the roof over the weekend. Than during demo while tearing out a piece of sheetrock an outlet that was never grounded or screwed to the framing drops on me and electricutes the s**t outta me, so I inform them and give them my electricians number. Than she spends an entire day keeping me up there to draw pictures for her insurance company. Than the next day I come in and the kitchen repair I was supposed to do is done, she said she decided to do it herself, but she decides she wants me to do the cabinets and countertops,doors and frames and trim, so the money I lost there in my mind was compensated. Coming up as a general contractor working for my father it's nothing I can't handle, even today. So with the thought of having more work in my mind I said sure. So for the next 2 days she has me either upstairs or at HD with her picking things out and explaining everything to her so she understands "how it is going to go", and has me break down the price to the penny, and like an *inexperienced* business man,I comply. So now 2 weeks has gone by. I get in and FINALLY have a good 3 or 4 days of work and I finally can see daylight in this project. One day I see a wire on the floor, I ask her what it is, because if it was dead I would pull it out instead of hiding it behind the wall, she picks it up and says "oh its a phone line, its good" so I leave it alone and never touch it again. Than we have a bad ice storm that has everyone indoors for 2 days. So Monday I go in with the intention of finally getting the drywall hung out,.without getting both feet in the door she goes crazy on me "YOU'VE BEEN HERE TO LONG YOU SAID IT WOULD BE DONE IN 7 DAYS, THIER BRINGING MY FURNITURE BACK ON SATURDAY I NEED THIS DONE BY FRIDAY BLAH BLAH BLAH" I said that it would have been in 7 days,had you not included all this extra work. I never did say anything about all the time she had me doing things other than the job at hand, only because I didn't want to stir up anything else. She said that they decided that I not do anything by the drywall and ceiling tile,that they were going to do the painting,doors,cabinets,trim,and the framing that needed to be fixed won't be, don't level up the drywall,etc... I said "well all thats fine mame, but we DO have a contract for the painting" she said "psshh, after all this time that contract means nothing, and since we are doing it we are deducting that off of your final draw". Than she adds "and that trash is becoming a problem we need it out" I nicely replied "yes it is, but you said you would get a roll-off" she says "I said nothing of the sort,get it out". THAN she says "why is the drywall outside still, shouldn't it be in?" I said "no we discussed this, you said ok when I asked to leave them outside because we cannot get them inside short of cutting all of them @ 48"" she replied "NO I NEVER DID!, GET THEM INSIDE" So by now I have had enough I say fine and we just get to work, my helper started sheetrocking and I had gone to start insulating the exterior and I realized she didn't have the staples I needed that I had asked her to get various times. She comes down and throws 10 bucks at my helper and says "tell matt to go get his damn staples" so I do. I get back, not 10 minutes and she says "I need to see your license" I said now? she said yes. So for the person that is screaming to get this done, she again had me running all over God's creation all day long. So after I get back I say "is everything ok NOW? she says yes. So than I finally got to work, and we got all the insulation in,rock hung. She came down later with pizza and an apology. so we are ready for the tiles. So I go up to her and I say, how do you expect me to put in 90 ceiling tiles, with 2 boxes of 8? she said well wait, i'll call them in and you go get them. ANOTHER trip. Well it never happened because after keeping me upstairs for 30 minutes she decides to wait. She had the tiles that are spray painted on the front, so if you cut wrong, it peels the face off, I hate them. So it never happens. She takes a look around. We leave, she seems very pleased


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

TigerFan said:


> You wanted to bang her, didn't you?



*OMG !!!!!*



LMAO
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

Everyone else has this pretty much covered, but:

1) Get your tools back...100%.
2) A HO can't just "fire" you. They have to give you a written notice and give you time (a week, some areas maybe two). If you fail to meet their expectations at that time, then you're fired. But it HAS TO BE IN WRITING.
3) Going to court is expensive (yeah, you already know...but do you actually really know?). It's effing expensive. There is a cynical remark that you may be familiar with "the guy with the biggest paper stack wins":thumbsup:.

Get your tools, cut your losses, pile up a paper stack to make theirs look like a pamphlet. Learn from your mistake, smarten up business wise (never, ever, ever,ever,ever,ever, and I mean frikkin ever tell a HO your problems:no. Being a GC ain't easy. You almost have to go into every deal with the thought that the HO is going to screw you. You obviously have a lot to learn business wise, but I hope you live through this bad experience, cover your ass, so that you can do better next time. But right now, just think about covering your ass.

If you really feel that you owe the HO money, then sit down with them (after they returned your tools) and work out an agreement and settle the matter. You could make payments even. At the very least, you should consult with an attorney. But be careful, attorneys make more money the longer they are on your case.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

ever notice that some of these guys who post about their woes in great detail never seem to last? This particular guy joined more than 2 years ago, cries about his problems, and makes a grand total of 10 posts. 
Where's he been since? It'd be nice to know how the problem was resolved.

There "oughta be a law" in this forum telling the newbies they have to have 30 or 40 posts before they start complaining about their business.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Don't mean to be heartless, but this is a total clusterf**k.
I figure its my job to be on top of everything, including the customer.
So for me its my fault, makes everything simple.
This story screams inexperience, as the poster stated. I just can't get much sympathy going for anyone who operates in this manner.:no:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Stone Mountain said:


> Where's he been since? It'd be nice to know how the problem was resolved.


:thumbup: :clap: :thumbup:

How many caught on that this bloke has been w/o his irons since:
*03-08-2007, 03:13 PM *
..and the last "real" activity in this thread was: 
*03-09-2007, 12:43 AM *

:laughing:
:laughing:
:laughing:

Maybe the guy is still there as Tiger suggested ~~> #*43 :notworthy** LMAO*


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## hbelectric (Oct 8, 2007)

One of my first jobs was a kitchen remodel, completely underbid the job. So the HO was basically getting a free job. I finish the project and hand the lady the bill. As i'm handing her the bill, she says i stole her battery drill( typical HO cheap Drill). I'm like lady, I wouldn't use that drill if you paid me, let alone steal it.

I said look, I will give you my 12v Dewalt battery drill(12v was good at the time), which is 100 times better than your drill, just pay me my money. Nope she wants her drill...
I leave, well i finally get a call a week later saying they found the drill in a box. She said i probably snuck back and put the drill there haaaa. Anyway i finally got paid.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

INO this thread may have been drug up out of the dark ages as far as the date, But it was enlightening none the less.

The educational value to inexperiance contractors and the horror stories from other people that have had similar circumstances is great.

Post like this one are the real reason I joined this forum to begin with.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*Longest Story Award*

This story reminds me about the song where the women was giving ratings to a man in a bar. She said she would give him a 5, for his smile, if he did some dental work, and a 10 for his stomach because of the size.

This was a horrible story, but it definitely gets a 10 for size.

I have a general license and everything in this story is the reason I do absolutely no building or remodeling.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

pcplumber said:


> Everyone should become a plumber. You don't know what you are missing.


I have an idea of what I am missing...











:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Celtic said:


> I have an idea of what I am missing...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


....you should have $$ signs falling out of the horse's rear, that's what plumbers see, and rightfully so.

J


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

J F said:


> ....you should have $$ signs falling out of the horse's rear, that's what plumbers see, and rightfully so.
> 
> J


Please clarify. We plumbers are not so bright as you will see in this link.

http://bestlineplumbing.com/34 Competition Pictures.htm


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:laughing:

All I know is...when I need a loan, I don't see my banker, I see my plumber. There's $$ in what's falling out of everyone's arse.

J


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