# Wondering if I am over building this roof system.



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I am getting ready to stick frame this roof system. I was planing to use 2x12 ridges and 2x10 rafters. I am also wondering about the "hip ridge" (not sure if thats the right term) which is over 20'. Does this need to be a continuous board or can I double it up and use overlapping 16' boards. I know this is likely amateur stuff for you framing pros, but I really could use the advice, thanks.


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## rshad28 (Oct 8, 2011)

Hi Ohiohomedoctor
Where's the roof framing plan?

If we could see a bit more of that it'd help comments..


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## fourcornerhome (Feb 19, 2008)

You can't get wood long enough? I've done hips 38' long.


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

2x10 rafters :: blink :: must have extreme snow load there? I can't speak for your area, but up here in the great white north 2x8 ridge propped every 6' is exceptable.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

rshad28 said:


> Hi Ohiohomedoctor
> Where's the roof framing plan?



Thats what I said..


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/h...e-structural-engineer-projects-120727/index2/


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Call the truss plant:thumbsup:
Thats what I would do.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

There has to be more than that to the print. I wonder if a lot of that can be trussed?


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

My bad I see it's an addition. I still would probably try to truss it but it might be easier to stick frame it? What are the measurements?


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Come on Doc tell me you joking or trying to see how fast this gonna get shut down for asking questions like that... Because after 6,000+ treads you should know better then ask questions like that, without a single dimension...Don't you have an architectural plan with a roof detail? 

Doc is being a very very bad boy :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I figured stick framing would be less hassle since alot of it would still need to be tied into the existing roof and the hip terminations. I settled on 2x10 ridge and rafters. I know 8's would work but 10's look nicer. My lumber yard said fat chance on the 24' hip ridges since I only need three. I am either going to try additional yards or make bearing point on the interior which I can stack the joints on.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

greg24k said:


> Come on Doc tell me you joking or trying to see how fast this gonna get shut down for asking questions like that... Because after 6,000+ treads you should know better then ask questions like that, without a single dimension...Don't you have an architectural plan with a roof detail?
> 
> Doc is being a very very bad boy :laughing:


I know the whole have an engineer tell you what to do thing. I was just looking for feedback from some of the framing pros, thats all. I was hoping afro scripous would do the roof detail... :whistling:


Seriously I didn't get a roof framing detail. The prints just say stick or truss frame. Trusses are going to be such a headache and the stick framing will give me an opportunity to do a nice inverted tray on the master ceiling.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Why would trusses be a headache? They can do a tray in a truss. Trying to stick frame, without engineering, with long spans, is just asking for trouble. Splicing in a hip rafter like that is a definite no no.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Warren said:


> Why would trusses be a headache? They can do a tray in a truss. Trying to stick frame, without engineering, with long spans, is just asking for trouble. Splicing in a hip rafter like that is a definite no no.


Thats what I was looking for. No no even if the butt stacks on a bearing point?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Warren said:


> Why would trusses be a headache? They can do a tray in a truss. Trying to stick frame, without engineering, with long spans, is just asking for trouble. Splicing in a hip rafter like that is a definite no no.


The headache comes from only 1/3 of the roof would have a fulm truss. I would have to end up cutting most of them to sit on the existing roof.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I would love to have you come and school me warren...


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

What about LVL's for your long ridges?

Do you have to have plans & inspections where you build?


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thats what I was looking for. No no even if the butt stacks on a bearing point?


That is different, usually. I would still rather use the longer lengths and then post it up at the mid point bearing. Just easier to figure it and install it that way. Any good yard will stock longer lengths.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

griz said:


> What about LVL's for your long ridges?
> 
> Do you have to have plans & inspections where you build?


Yes, they approved the plans as I posted with very few notes. Building inspector said it was ok either way. I was thinking lvls but I have never seen one on a hip roof so I wasnt sure if that was just me being an insane over builder.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Yes, they approved the plans as I posted with very few notes. Building inspector said it was ok either way. I was thinking lvls but I have never seen one on a hip roof so I wasnt sure if that was just me being an insane over builder.


We have used lvl's for ridges, hips, valleys, and even common rafters. Seems like almost every stick roof we do contains a bunch of lvl's. Can you give us the nitty gritty of the spans, pitches, etc? We may be able to give you some help if we know what were dealing with.


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Yeah its not free though. The lumber package price difference from the lumber yard to my commercial lowes account was $11 k.



i can use the eng. service before I buy anything.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

duburban said:


> your lumber supplier's engineer won't look at these plans and spec parts? its almost as good as hiring an eng, but free.


*No such thing as Lumber Yard Engineering out here...*



ohiohomedoctor said:


> Yeah its not free though. The lumber package price difference from the lumber yard to my commercial lowes account was $11 k.


*One of the two screwed up...:whistling*

Like some one else said, if Lowe's beat my supplier by 11k...:no:
we'd be having a "come to Jesus meeting"... :thumbsup:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

So how is the price so different? Did you go over each one? You may not have to worry about the roof, I think Lowes didn't figure lumber for it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

No lumber yard engineers here.

Truss company is liable for their trusses, they have them engineered. That is a simple roof, so I wouldnt look for a stamp, but if it is a complicated roofing structure Id hire an engineer.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

You can truss more than half of that roof. Maybe as much as 2/3 if your truss company is good enough. And you could incorporate a tray also. Then your stick tie in would be much less as far as spans. Your archy sucks if that's all the info he gave you. Do you have a good truss company at your disposal? 

As far a lowes vs your yard..I would bet lowes missed something. If your yard is a good yard that's been around for a while, chances are they are more accurate. Is the lowes number broke down line by line? If not I would not trust it.


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## wnc viking (Aug 4, 2011)

With out seeing the rest of the plans it is hard to say what you would need for hip and ridges. And what walls are load bearing. If you have enough load points to put post to support the hips and ridges


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

griz said:


> *No such thing as Lumber Yard Engineering out here...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


we hardly have inspections here and only get real engineers for certain things. the lumber yard engineer is half salesman so you have to be street smart or you'll leave with a tractor trailer of LVLs


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

I don't see any hip-ridges greater than 24', you should be able to get those easy enough.
The rafter size and roof pitch will dictate your ridge board size. You may actually need 2x12s for the ridge boards, by code (IRC 2009) the ridge should be no less than the cut end of the rafters, don't know yet.
Rafter size will be dictated by your span, spacing and ground snow load, looks like you will need 2x10s on those for your longest rafters.
All this stuff can be done conventional light frame construction it seems.
Lots of other considerations for your design.

Andy.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> I don't see any hip-ridges greater than 24', you should be able to get those easy enough.
> The rafter size and roof pitch will dictate your ridge board size. You may actually need 2x12s for the ridge boards, by code (IRC 2009) the ridge should be no less than the cut end of the rafters, don't know yet.
> Rafter size will be dictated by your span, spacing and ground snow load, looks like you will need 2x10s on those for your longest rafters.
> All this stuff can be done conventional light frame construction it seems.
> ...


Thanks for your input. I am having the se certify the archys drawing this morning. I knew that was the right thing to do I guess I just needed to hear it. Honestly I am tired of revisions and just want to build it be better to be safe than sorry. I had the architect draw it with 2x10 rafters and 2x12 ridges just to be safe. 

The 11k is legit. The room addition is 1500 sq.ft of finish space 750ish footprint. I combed through the bids this morning just to make sure since you all thought it was unbelievable too and found a few discrepancies. First and biggest was the window and door quotes. Yard had andersons at 10k, lowes has proline pellas to match existing at $6200. From there the lumber was across the board cheaper from lowes. The other imbalance I found was the huge difference in what the yard charges for fasteners and strapping verses what lowes gets. Coupled with the 5% commercial discount and the 10% coupon my sales guy applied for me, the lowes quotes is legit.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thanks for your input. I am having the se certify the archys drawing this morning. I knew that was the right thing to do I guess I just needed to hear it. Honestly I am tired of revisions and just want to build it be better to be safe than sorry. I had the architect draw it with 2x10 rafters and 2x12 ridges just to be safe.
> 
> The 11k is legit. The room addition is 1500 sq.ft of finish space 750ish footprint. I combed through the bids this morning just to make sure since you all thought it was unbelievable too and found a few discrepancies. First and biggest was the window and door quotes. Yard had andersons at 10k, lowes has proline pellas to match existing at $6200. From there the lumber was across the board cheaper from lowes. The other imbalance I found was the huge difference in what the yard charges for fasteners and strapping verses what lowes gets. Coupled with the 5% commercial discount and the 10% coupon my sales guy applied for me, the lowes quotes is legit.



Get a new lumber yard, bro.

I joke with my lumber salesman that "Lowes could beat this price" :no::laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Get a new lumber yard, bro.
> 
> I joke with my lumber salesman that "Lowes could beat this price" :no::laughing:


I always figured that too. From time to time it is smart to check everybody's numbers. Your likely right about my allegiance to that particular lumber yard.


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

No offense to any se's or archys out there, just my 2 cents. (For reference only.)
I wouldn't hesitate to frame this with 2X6 rafters and 2X8 hips/ridges here in Omaha. I don't think our snow loads are much different, but maybe some lake effect snows could step it up some. This looks pretty similar to a lot of new construction here. We can go 11' 9" on 2X6 24" o.c. Your center (bearing) wall is partially on the existing foundation and the rest is probably on your basement beam line. We would typically run purlins to the rafters off this wall to keep the span within code. If I went to 16" o.c., I wouldn't need the purlins. Put a properly sized lvl in the floor under the master bath/br wall to brace the mid-span of the rear hip, and size 16' lvl's for the tray up front to brace the front hip. 
What are the rafters in the existing roof? Anything different just creates difficulties in matching roof/OH heights. Would you step the sizes down for the short jacks? I'm sorry, but I just like to see framing sized properly without a lot of extra/oversized lumber. The lumber salesmen must be drooling.:whistling 
Our local employee-owned full-service yard is one of the highest rated in the country and they'll size everything free. I wouldn't think of going to a big box store for a lumber package. Not when I can't buy a 28' DF 2X8 or a 48' 7 1/4" lvl for a hip there. Plus free delivery/pickup within 25 miles.
Ok, I'm done now.:clap:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

just like with form bracing.
"you won't know whens its overbuilt. but you sure as **** will know when its under built"


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Comparing Andersen windows to Pella Pro lines is absurd. Hope you are not comparing other materials that way.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Warren said:


> Comparing Andersen windows to Pella Pro lines is absurd. Hope you are not comparing other materials that way.


 Yes , Pella is ahigher end product when compared to anderson. 

I personally do not like Pella. I dig Marvin and Eagle, or Lincoln. Especially in casements. 

I did install some anderson 400 series sliding doors but I thought we're good for the money.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Jaws said:


> Yes , Pella is ahigher end product when compared to anderson.
> 
> I personally do not like Pella. I dig Marvin and Eagle, or Lincoln. Especially in casements.
> 
> I did install some anderson 400 series sliding doors but I thought we're good for the money.


Jaws, I think you missed something here. Pella Pro Lines are the lowest grade Pellas made. They are unlike any other Pella product. Complete garbage. They came out with this line to compete with lower end windows. Not sure if they are even available most places anymore. I have installed many replacement windows that were higher quality than the Pro Lines. The Designer and Architect Series are very good, but Pro Lines are a black mark on the Pella name.


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## NINZAN STUDIO (Jan 10, 2012)

Warren said:


> The Designer and Architect Series are very good, but Pro Lines are a black mark on the Pella name.


Agreed... I drew up and helped frame a house which I spec'd Pella Architect Series double hungs. I've never specs or installed the Pro line.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Warren said:


> Jaws, I think you missed something here. Pella Pro Lines are the lowest grade Pellas made. They are unlike any other Pella product. Complete garbage. They came out with this line to compete with lower end windows. Not sure if they are even available most places anymore. I have installed many replacement windows that were higher quality than the Pro Lines. The Designer and Architect Series are very good, but Pro Lines are a black mark on the Pella name.


While your right about them not being as good as other lines they carry they are far from junk. Your attitude sucks..


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

What line of Andersen did you compare the pro line to? Andersen has their own cheap line..it's the 200 series..don't buy that...


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

It was the line above the 200's I was quoted because they were on sale making the two lines close in cost.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I understand that they make better lines but when the house has prolines and the customer likes them and wants to match them thats what they get. My yard doesnt sell pellas they sell andersons so I was entertaining the anderson windows. I would prefer to install ultra high end $3k windows only but in my real world I will install what people want. I do offer my opinion and attempt to sway people in what I believe to be the right direction but at the end of the day I am a service company.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

The 400 series? They are good units. I have been installing those for 12 plus years. I put in a few prolines and have not been impressed...more equal to the 200's. If you want a real good unit the new A series from Andersen is great. Very pricey. Also they just bought Eagle windows and they will be called the E series. We will be giving the e series a try on our next custom build.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> While your right about them not being as good as other lines they carry they are far from junk. Your attitude sucks..


That's a little harsh.
To be fair, I haven't used them in about 7 years. We did about a dozen homes with them back then. These were from the original design. The weatherstipping was the worst I have seen. That is always the first thing a homeowner notices. The quality control was awful too. Poorly assembled, poorly caulked, etc. Like I said, this was years ago when they first came out. Maybe they improved the design and construction.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I understand that they make better lines but when the house has prolines and the customer likes them and wants to match them thats what they get. My yard doesnt sell pellas they sell andersons so I was entertaining the anderson windows. I would prefer to install ultra high end $3k windows only but in my real world I will install what people want. I do offer my opinion and attempt to sway people in what I believe to be the right direction but at the end of the day I am a service company.


I hear ya. My favorite saying recently when someone asks what I do is "I am in the business of giving people what they want..as Long as they can afford it!"


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Warren said:


> That's a little harsh.
> To be fair, I haven't used them in about 7 years. We did about a dozen homes with them back then. These were from the original design. The weatherstipping was the worst I have seen. That is always the first thing a homeowner notices. The quality control was awful too. Poorly assembled, poorly caulked, etc. Like I said, this was years ago when they first came out. Maybe they improved the design and construction.


Your right but so was, "the windows you just spent $6,200 on and plan on installing in your $210k addition blow azz."

The prolines in his house are roughly 12 years old and have held up great. 

I am sure it is like any cheapest line hit and miss by production day.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> I hear ya. My favorite saying recently when someone asks what I do is "I am in the business of giving people what they want..as Long as they can afford it!"


The most difficult part of our jobs often times is wrenching out of people what they really want and how much they really want to spend. Discovering where dreams meet budgets is my greatest skill. :laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Warren said:


> Jaws, I think you missed something here. Pella Pro Lines are the lowest grade Pellas made. They are unlike any other Pella product. Complete garbage. They came out with this line to compete with lower end windows. Not sure if they are even available most places anymore. I have installed many replacement windows that were higher quality than the Pro Lines. The Designer and Architect Series are very good, but Pro Lines are a black mark on the Pella name.


Havent used Pella in a decade. Service sucks here. Wouldnt really know, should of kept my comment I guess. Rarely use Anderson, only Lowes carries them here. Pella Pro the one in the box stores?

I personally thought that the quality on Anderson 400 was ok for the price.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Havent used Pella in a decade. Service sucks here. Wouldnt really know, should of kept my comment I guess. Rarely use Anderson, only Lowes carries them here. Pella Pro the one in the box stores?


Here its pella at lowes. Anderson at home depot and pro line only through pella dealer. The pella sales guys are very good around here.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Lowes or HD. I dont keep up with it. Lol


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I understand that they make better lines but when the house has prolines and the customer likes them and wants to match them thats what they get. My yard doesnt sell pellas they sell andersons so I was entertaining the anderson windows. I would prefer to install ultra high end $3k windows only but in my real world I will install what people want. I do offer my opinion and attempt to sway people in what I believe to be the right direction but at the end of the day I am a service company.



If this is in reference to my earlier post , I was not being uppity.:laughing:

When I logged back onto the thread I skipped several posts and assumed you guys were debating your favorite window lines.

As long as it will hold up and I feel comfortable warranting it , I will install whatever they want. I have even installed Alenco. Just not my preference. :thumbsup:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

After all that bichin I ended up trussing it today..


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I know there is no header yet. It is a double casement with a half round above. You can see the tray in the bottom truss chords.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

This pic is from the drive.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> After all that bichin I ended up trussing it today..


And your almost ready to install the sheathing...much quicker than hand cut and it got you what you wanted. All the framing looks nice and tight!


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> And your almost ready to install the sheathing...much quicker than hand cut and it got you what you wanted. All the framing looks nice and tight!


Hopefully Ill get it tied into the existing roof and roofed before the hurricane rains hit Saturday. I have managed to build this without it getting wet at all using a 50' by '50 tarp on two occasions. It would make me very happy to build the whole deal without it getting soaked.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Trusses rock:thumbup1:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

It ended up being much easier than I anticipated. The truss engineer did a fantastic job. The heaviest truss ended up being 168 lbs. Not too shabby


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

I would have stick framed it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Nice, Matt.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

knucklehead said:


> I would have stick framed it.


It ended up being cheaper when the additional engineering, architectural, and labor fees were factored in. Not to mention they supplied them in one week which impressed me very much.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Good choice Matt. I Don't know why so many people hate trusses. Almost always ends up saving money, and simpler/quicker to install. There is a place for stick and trusses. Choosing the right job for each is what separates the men from the boys.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

knucklehead said:


> I would have stick framed it.


Yeah, but it would have checked, and then they would want you to tear it down:laughing:


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