# Credit Card fraud



## kbsparky (Oct 14, 2007)

Moderators, I hope this is posted in the correct forum. If it needs to be moved off-topic, please do so, however I should point out that this discussion is pertinent to operating a business, since it was my business account that was affected. On that note, ....


I was shopping at Lowes last night, when my cell phone rang. On the line was the fraud dept. from Chase bank, asking me if I had made some purchases in California recently, and was I in possession on my _Chase Visa _card.

At first I was skeptical of the call, thinking it was a scamster attempting to get hold of my CC information to do exactly what they were calling me about. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak. One of the red flags that never materialized on this issue was the caller never asked for my "security code" number (3-digit number only printed on the back of the card, and not embossed) -- an important piece of info needed to process fraudulent transactions.

As the call progressed, it became apparent that this was a legitimate call, as the bank had sufficient information about my account to verify this to me.

Anyways, they began asking about specific recent transactions on my account, and wanting to know whether I had made those purchases or not. 

Since I was physically in Delaware at that time, and there had just recently been transaction requests in Southern California -- and I still had actual possession of my card -- they concluded that someone had forged a copy of my card, and was attempting to use it for fraudulent purposes. 

I explained I was still shopping at Lowe's and wanted to use that very card for checkout, but I could use another card if I had to. The gal stayed on the line while I checked out, allowed my transaction to go thru, and _then_ canceled the card ...









(I get a 3% rebate for using the Chase card)

So now the questions come to mind are:


Who copied my card?
How did they obtain the information needed?
When did this occur?
I figure that somehow it was "sold" to scamsters over the internet -- hence the attempted use across the country.

Chase will be sending me some paperwork for me to verify or deny liabililty on recent charges. They are also going to issue me a new card, with a different account number. One note here is that my wife's card is unaffected, since hers has a different number on it than mine, but they are both tied to the same master account.

Anyone here have similar experiences?


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

At least twice.

Here is one:

The first time was Literally MINUTES after having booked a flight from JFK to LAX. I processed the transaction on their web-site, called to verify and was given an email concerning the Itinerary.

Next morning I pull out my card that I used online the previous Night to purchase Breakfast and it was denied for a $10.00 purchase. I then call the issuing bank (same as yours) and they confirmed my purchase of the JFK/LAX flight.; The operator then goes on to confirm my One-Way FIRST CLASS flight from JFX to Paris!!! Say what!?!?!?

She then derives that the transaction originated in Singapore!!!!!

Of course the transaction was nullified and a new card was issued.

After this occurrence, I applied for a seperate card from the same bank for use ONLY on the Internet. And NO other card I have gets used on line.

As for who, how, where.......

If a man can design a system of safe guards, no matter HOW deep and far reaching, another man, by the Laws of Physics, can defeat it!


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

MALCO.New.York said:


> If a man can design a system of safe guards, no matter HOW deep and far reaching, another man, by the Laws of Physics, can defeat it!



Malco, we usually think alike and I generally agree with you. But not this time!
If the piece of chit was a 'man' , he wouldn't be stealing from decent folk.  The  should be shot and will never deserve the connotation 'man'!


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## Max Nomad (Aug 29, 2008)

kbsparky said:


> ...snip...
> 
> So now the questions come to mind are:
> 
> ...


Greetings, KB,

Unfortunately there are many ways someone could get ahold of your card number and information. 

One common method is using what's called a "skimmer"; essentially it's a small electronic device similar to a regular credit card reader except it captures all the data on the magnetic strip. Since it is small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, these are a favorite in places with high traffic and a good mix of people such as restaurants. A waiter with a skimmer could get dozens of cards in a night along with the names and CVV codes on the back. Because these numbers are compiled into databases and purchased by someone who is usually somewhere overseas, it's not uncommon to have immigrants participating in the scam (e.g. - Russians, Nigerians, Mexicans, Koreans, etc.). 

That person overseas acts as a broker; s/he will often sit on the card numbers for a few weeks or so (making it more difficult to track where the card was compromised at) then sell the databases to someone else through some underground chatroom on some unregulated network like on IRC's EfNet. Often the database are sold to someone here back in the U.S. If this carder is a seasoned vet, he'll also have a Credit Card Writer/Encoder and a ton of card blanks for every type of credit card out there. They'll basically re-create a stolen credit card number on a card and add the name and everything. 

(I Deleted the link, so others who may be unscrupulous do not find out about it so easily. Ed)

I've met a credit carder in NYC and had a chance to learn how they're doing it these days. After having watched her make some fakes first hand, I must admit, it scared the s**t out of me. Although the new card might look different than the old, it had the same CC type on it (Mastercard, Visa, etc) but a different design and if you looked at the duplicate next to the original it would have been impossible to tell which was the fake... and they both work.

Even scarier, a card can be skimmed *anywhere* in the world that accepts credit cards but doesn't have alot of camera security, thus almost anyone in any Mom-n-Pop store or Restaurant or Gas Station could skim you at any point. You're a little safer if you stick to the franchises, but not by much.

There's a ton of other ways your card could've been compromised but I figured this one alone is the most common -- and enough to make ya shake your head in disgust.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I think this has happened to everyone I know. CC scamming goes on every minute of life. I always try to protect my info as best I can. CC companies, I think, do a pretty good job of catching it before it goes too far.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

tinner666 said:


> Malco, we usually think alike and I generally agree with you. But not this time!
> If the piece of chit was a 'man' , he wouldn't be stealing from decent folk.  The  should be shot and will never deserve the connotation 'man'!


What I was saying is not that it was OK, and I certainly was not defending him. NOSIREE! What I was attempting to communicate is that if one man can build an impenetrable fortress, sooner or later someone WILL find the ***** in the armor and penetrate it.

It is The Laws of Physics. Apply it to Matter vs Anti-Matter. There has to exist the opposite action and we will NEVER be able to be free from this Law.

So to sum it up, now matter what we do to protect ourselves, no matter how carefully we safe guard our transactions, there exists persons who are going to try and hurt us. This is not to say that we should not protect ourselves, but to say when it happens, deal with it and carry on.

Kbsparky. Do not get all Panty-Wadded or waste too much energy on the who because it will, Statistically Speaking, happen to you AGAIN!

The Bank will find this person EVENTUALLY, but it is NO LONGER your problem! They will send you a sheet of letter head asking about the specific Transaction, you check the "No box", you sign it, mail it back and it is over.

This paper is for their authorization to conduct an investigation.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

2.2 MILLION bad checks are written in this Country EVERYDAY!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Fraud---Check-Fraud-Statistics&id=131847


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Lighten up Malco. I know you don't think it's OK.:laughing: I'm just venting that the likes of these things consider themselves 'men'. Such as in our news folk complaining about so many men in jail, for instance.
If they were 'men', they would have jobs like you, I And I assume all who post here.

My post was a bit tongue in cheek,:jester:


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Oh, and I know these pieces of trash spend every moment trying to defraud and scam people. Which I don't even consider them to be people themselves.
Every moment online or in a store is a fight to protect ourselves.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

^^^^:thumbsup::notworthy:thumbsup::notworthy:thumbsup:^^^^


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Scary. I need to go through my statements every month... I usually end up just filing them away with no time to look at them...

My visa card now has a chip and I need to enter a pin when using it. I don't know if that helps with skimmers or no...


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

I read EVERY statement , EVERY month and check them online often during the month.


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## Max Nomad (Aug 29, 2008)

Winchester said:


> Scary. I need to go through my statements every month... I usually end up just filing them away with no time to look at them...
> 
> My visa card now has a chip and I need to enter a pin when using it. I don't know if that helps with skimmers or no...


Those smartcards, along with the strong encryption they have on those badboys, will protect against skimmers as more and more stores and restaurants start using the right terminals. There's still the problem of many of the other methods though, but something is better is nothing...


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

I signed up for credit monitoring and check online about my cc account frequently.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

What were they buying in California?


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## kbsparky (Oct 14, 2007)

According to the bank, one charge was for about $400 worth of stuff from Toys "R" Us. Another charge that was attempted and declined was for $240 from Target.

It's funny --- there was also a $1.00 authorization at a gas station a couple days before, but that charge was never completed. This is usually a sign of checking the card to see if it's valid --> a well known technique used by crooks when selling CC info.

The funny thing about that charge is *I* was the one who did it! I was at a Shell station, and inadvertently used my Chase card instead of my Shell card (I get 5% rebate from Shell, but only 3% from Chase). Realizing my mistake after inserting the card, but before pumping any gas, I canceled the transaction. But it showed up on their computer systems as an attempted but not completed transaction.

It was probably doing that more than anything else that flagged the account for scrutiny, and ultimately the saving grace for both the bank and myself.

I'm not sure if any other transactions were attempted after that. I did try to use the card this morning, just to ensure it was indeed canceled. It was declined. :blink:


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## kbsparky (Oct 14, 2007)

kevjob said:


> I signed up for credit monitoring and check online about my cc account frequently.


Credit monitoring is good to ensure nobody opens a new account in your name, or other identity stealing activities. It won't help at all with a stolen/cloned CC.

Checking your CC accounts online is helpful per se, although there may be several days' delay between the actual transactions and posting them on your account.

I would prefer a real-time access to my account, which would show all transactions/attempts. Even the declined ones. PayPal used to do this, but I think they have since "upgraded" their system to show batch/dumps of transactions, instead of real time. A downgrade if you ask me ...


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## kbsparky (Oct 14, 2007)

Winchester said:


> ...My visa card now has a chip and I need to enter a pin when using it. I don't know if that helps with skimmers or no...


I would prefer this as well. 

It's my understanding that most other countries also use this, which has reduced the amount of fraudulent activity overseas. Why they don't get on board in the US quicker is way beyond me. :no:


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## Max Nomad (Aug 29, 2008)

*An indicator to look out for...*

After a carder has created a duplicate of a card, one of their tactics is to test it out first. They know the card itself works but they have no idea how many people also bought the same credit card database they did (guess there's no honor among thieves, eh?). 

A common place to test the stolen card is at a supermarket that's part of a chain. The groceries are untraceable, there's a good chance that the transaction won't stick out with monitoring services, and even if the carder is on camera, usually it's not a good enough shot to get a face. 

Gas stations are a close second choice but when they hit that station usually there will be some monster charges on that same day. Carders love to go "Shopping" as they call it and the female carder I talked to was quite candid about how far she'd drive to go on a spree. She lives in NYC and admitted to driving as far west as Pittsburgh and as far south as Durham NC. Fills up a van with flatscreen TVs, video game consoles (Wii, Xbox, and whatever's hot), games, iPods, pocket cameras, and anything else that's relatively difficult to trace and people will gladly buy at a discount price. 

Oh yeah -- if you've burned by fraud and you're expecting to get a taste of justice when the feds catch the culprit, think again. With the carder I've been talking about in this thread, up to now the only time she almost got caught she was on route 13 on her way home from a spree. Somewhere in VA or NC she had stopped to buy three or four cartons of cigarettes -- perfectly legit and paid in cash. A cop in Delaware pulled her for a broken taillight, saw the cartons and grilled her as if she was trafficking smokes. Checked the other boxes in her van, saw that these were the only cigarette cartons she had, and let her go. Apparently the cop didn't think it odd that she had enough electronics to stock a small Best Buy.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

*Device stole
*Saturday, December 20, 2008 


> HOBOKEN - If you used the ATM at the downtown Hoboken Sovereign Bank branch to withdraw money, you may have unknowingly given away your account information in return, say Hoboken police.
> This past fall, two thieves put an illegal "skimming device" on the ATM card reader that would record the card owner's account number and PIN. The thieves then used the information to create phony cards and steal nearly $20,000 from various bank customers.
> Two men hit the 86 River St. bank three different times this past fall, first on Sept. 10, then again on Sept. 17 and then a third time on Oct. 3.
> The men would come into the ATM lobby area after hours, dressed as technicians, and install the skimming device. They would leave it there for a few hours and then remove it.
> ...



Of course everyone is not in Hoboken, NJ - but the story illustrates how these acts are sometimes performed....quickly, quietly, and easily.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

kbsparky said:


> The funny thing about that charge is *I* was the one who did it! I was at a Shell station, and inadvertently used my Chase card instead of my Shell card (I get 5% rebate from Shell, but only 3% from Chase). Realizing my mistake after inserting the card, but before pumping any gas, I canceled the transaction. But it showed up on their computer systems as an attempted but not completed transaction.


I stuck my Amex card in a diesel pump by mistake, canceled the pump and filled up at the normal gas pumps. When I checked my bill it showed that I bought two fill ups that day--- some lucky guy got $75 in free diesel since Amex deleted the $75 charge from my account.


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