# replacing welded door buck in block wall



## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok guys this is the seneario..

Welded door buck is set is a block wall. Only problem is i want the door to open the other way.

So is it possible to remove the welded buck and install a knockdown buck in its place?

Ive never really had to touch bucks in block walls so this is new to me...

Thanks in advance for any help given...


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

When you say bucks i assume you mean jamb. Sounds like the one you want to take out is cemented in, right?

The fun part may be getting the old one out. I've never tried that one.:sweatdrop:

May have to chip some concrete prior to installing new2X4 bucks. Then the new knockdown jamb. I've installed those.

Maybe someone who has done this will chime in.


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Getting the old one out it not easy, there it is likely course ties and grout connecting the frame to the block.

You can still use a new welded frame to install the new door.

Do you have a demo saw?


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

You might be able to save the jamb. you might be able to use a "roton hinge" and hang the door on the other side. you might still need a new door slab, the front edge on some are tapered to close easier. it would now be tapered the wrong way.

the hard part on this is to cut the old hinge side to take the latch hardware. So maybe a surface mount panic device might be easier.


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Quickie saw all the way around the jamb where it meet the block. Then sledge hammer it out and install new retrofit commercial door. Actually takes less time than you would think but dust gets everywhere.

Cole


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

You can custom order the doors as needed for those things, may take a couple weeks, but no jamb/buck removal. surface mount the hinges on the side you want, bondo the old holes and repaint it all.


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Quickie Saw? is that the same as a demo saw?

when the door is centered on a 12" block wall, I can't get much penetration with my 14" blade. I usually cut what I can, then run 2 horizontal cuts throught the jamb one at 18" from floor and on 12" from header on both jambs then sledge it out, making sure the header doesn't fall down.

Any other tricks for this?


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Chris Johnson said:


> You can custom order the doors as needed for those things, may take a couple weeks, but no jamb/buck removal. surface mount the hinges on the side you want, bondo the old holes and repaint it all.


I have to ask my suppliers if they offer this, I have never seen this before, but it makes sense.


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Chris Johnson said:


> You can custom order the doors as needed for those things, may take a couple weeks, but no jamb/buck removal. surface mount the hinges on the side you want, bondo the old holes and repaint it all.


Only ever seen one of those once and it looked like crap. Could have been just the installation but I would recommend taking the frame out.



Pearce Services said:


> Quickie Saw? is that the same as a demo saw?
> 
> when the door is centered on a 12" block wall, I can't get much penetration with my 14" blade. I usually cut what I can, then run 2 horizontal cuts throught the jamb one at 18" from floor and on 12" from header on both jambs then sledge it out, making sure the header doesn't fall down.
> 
> Any other tricks for this?


yeah Demo/quickie saw same thing.

The technical name is High speed gas cut off saw. That's what the manual says.:laughing:

We can't center doors in openings here. Local amendment says commercial doors must swing open 180* So we have to slid them out to the hinge side.

Cole


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I bought a used steel jamb & door a while back from a salvage yard. It was obvious that they just used a recip saw with either a metal, or demo blade. The brackets that lay into the masonry usually aren't very heavy, maybe 18 ga (.020? or so) or lighter. If you aren't trying to save the jamb, a crowbar would probably do the job, but be carefull not to punch holes in wall.
Joe


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

It does require some finesse, not a slam bam thank you ma'am sort of thing.


----------



## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Sorry guys i havent been able to respond since i posted last night. 

I do have a demo saw.. but this is in a warehouse so fumes and dust are an issue.

And i think i want to put a hole new jamb in.. 

So if i cut the jam. Into 2' sections and pry/ sled hammer the pieces out it should come out? Im thonking with a 7" grinder...

Is a knock down jamb the best/ easiest for the replacment?

The


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Build a tent just inside the door to keep dust down, or use water. I still prefer welded frames. just be real carefull on your measure. 

Figure out if the hinge or latch side is higher. if Hinge is lower, you need to shim the hinge side, make sure you subtract this from your frame height, or at least make sure you cut hinge side before installation.

order the frame dimpled and punched and order anchors.


----------



## NjNick (Jan 14, 2009)

I just recently did about 15 doors like this @ a housing project. We had to remove the door& frame, bring the new equipment in and replace the door. We did 2 per day plus equipment.

Couple things- 
1. Is the existing frame original? Was it built integral to the wall ( Ie. the frame was set and blocks slid into the jamb as they built the wall, or was the frame it inserted into the rough opening afterwards?

If the wall was built around the frame it will require a little more hacking to get the frame out. If the jamb was slid in afterwards, cut each side jamb in half and header and half and sledge it out. Like others said, a demo saw is best if you can use it. With water there will be minimal dust.

In regards to the new frame I find a welded frame much easier for a few reasons. 
1. When you order a welded frame, they tack weld spacer bars in the bottom which makes it much easier to keep the frame square while working. 
2. Welded frames come 'punched and dimpled'. They come pre drilled with 3 countersunk holes on each jamb perfect for a 3/8" threadshold anchor.

I would suggest ordering a frame with a throat( jamb width) that is _smaller _than the block size. I.E. assuming 8" block, order a 4 7/8" throat. Order a welded frame . When the new frame arrives, slide into the opening, center in opening, shim, anchor, caulk and your all set.

I have never used a knock down frame in this type of application. Drawings have always spec'ed welded frames for exterior openings.

Good luck


----------



## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

This is an interior door and it appears the wall was built around the jamb... And the jamb is centered in the opening if that helps


----------



## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

NjNick said:


> If the wall was built around the frame it will require a little more hacking cut each side jamb in half and header and half and sledge it out.
> 
> I would suggest ordering a frame with a throat( jamb width) that is smaller than the block size. I.E. assuming 8" block, order a 4 7/8" throat. Order a welded frame . When the new frame arrives, slide into the opening, center in opening, shim, anchor, caulk and your all set.
> 
> ...


I think this is a good plan!


----------



## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

what is meant by "knock down" buck


----------



## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

A knock down is a jamb that is not welded together, rather comes in 3 pieces that "snap" together in the ruff opening.


----------



## Old Grumpy (Mar 11, 2009)

I have done a good number of these in the past. I ask for/order welded frame "EMA" prep (Existing Masonry Anchor). This gets me a welded frame , dimpled, punched and supplied with properly sized expanding anchors.
A word or 2 on the removal. I eventually came to cut the header in 2 places about 6" apart, a cut about 4" down each jamb leg,another pair of cuts just above and below the centre hinge and strike box locations and one at an easy to reach lower height on each jamb leg.
I've never encountered any sort of anchors in the header area so I sledge out the little center piece and this frees the other 2 head chunks for poundng out without binding or wedging against each other. Now there's nothing waiting up there to visit me as I work the jamb legs.
The vast majority of the block locks I've encountered are the bent wire/3/16 rod type and are almost never in the actual strike/hinge area as it is a little more awkward to install them there, so look for an anchor in the block joint just above or below there. Sledge the little center cuts out and do a little loosening on one of the upper sections. I like to try to have the jamb and (hopefully, ever so hopefully)grout crack free just enough to wedge a bar in there so I can locate the blocklocks. I sawzall the block lock and the section should be free.
I use the sawzall at this point to prevent the block lock from ripping out not just mortar but also occasionally the end chunk of a block.(%#[email protected]$)!
It also turns out I'd rather make a sawzall cut than stand there trying to smash the block locks out of the wall with a sledge.


----------



## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

I always grout the jambs,header and at least the first core of the block. Good luck with the sawzall, or any other method for that matter. I figure two days minimum for replacing a door in a block wall,just to allow for demoing a fully grouted jam.

Replacements go in with anchor bolts.


----------

