# Sherwin Williams is starting to irritate me



## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Their price increases are a frikkin joke, in the last five years it seems that paint has gone up considerably more than other products. But this post isn't about their rising costs, which does piss me off. 

Here's my beef, everytime I buy a gallon of paint the next day my mailbox is cluttered with a bill from them. I'm talking every time I buy paint, shouldn't they just send out a bill at the end of the month instead of cluttering my mailbox every time I purchase material from them. They started doing this recently, they weren't doing this two or three years ago. They would just send you ONE bill at the end of the month, that's how most business's conduct business. This is getting on my nerves.


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## AFI (Sep 21, 2006)

They increase the prices because they need to pay for the paper they expense every time we buy a gallon of paint :w00t:


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## Danahy (Oct 17, 2006)

General Paints (Where I get my sundries) does that too. Makes the bookkeeping just a little bit more of a pain than it needs to be.


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

ICI used to do this to me. It was absolutely ridiculus the amount of paper work.

Remedy: pay with CC.


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## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

I buy most of my paints from ICI and they just send me a bill at the end of every month. I like sherwin williams products, But it seems whenever you go in there to buy something you had better brought some lube with ya for when they bend you over the counter.


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## lornmastro (Mar 17, 2006)

sherwin williams sold?? my name to every advertiser this side of the mississippi...keep getting all this advertizing in the mail...in addition everytime i get a can of paint its a different price!!even if it the same exact paint/color...annoying


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## Terrence (Jul 6, 2006)

WTF Guys?
Don't you see we have buying power?
Why don't we ALL work on wording a letter with our collective complaints, and then we all can mail it in every time we pay the bill so they are inundated with the same message over and over again.

The power in this idea lies in all of us doing it, and the message coming from all the USA and Canada so the message is CLEAR:

We communicate
We cooperate
We don't like your funny business
We are prepared to take our collective dollars elsewhere

I don't think they want to lose hundreds (or thousands) of contractor accounts across the nation. Particularly when they realize that we are talking to one another.

Maybe this is a radical approach, but my Mom taught me to think BIG, and take no crap.


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

The constant slips annoy me too. Although, it helps me keep track of what I've spent. So it's a "good annoyance" and.........

gas went up because of 'demand' and it's the same with SW paint~ people want it, they go to buy it regardless of price


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## painterofeveryt (Apr 8, 2005)

*Boycott Sherwin ???*

Terrence, is that what you are saying? it is indeed a great idea ! lets see what happens next......


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Umm....your customers should be paying for the paint, and you should be getting a markup on it for pick up, delivery, and handling. If you are marking it up a percentage, then more expensive paint means more markup. I'm piling up work left and right using SW paints. I charge at least 20% on top of retail for the paint, and there is no issue. 

Paint is not a painter's expense. It's the customers. I don't pay for paint, rags, caulk, putty, primers, or anything. There is a margin for all of this stuff in every job I sell. 

I'm not going to boycott any paint manufacturer because ultimately I let the decision lie with the customer about that anyway. I recommend the line I like, and ask if they prefer something else. Usually, I get to use what I like.


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## SgtBaldy (Jul 14, 2006)

If sherwin is what gets me the job then that is what i use, But at the customers expense. If they love sherwin they usually don't mind the markup.


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## Terrence (Jul 6, 2006)

aww man! I just wanted to lead a revolution.


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## KellyPainting (May 30, 2006)

Terrence, I'm with you... how about walmart...I'm getting sick of them!

Wait...Dunkin Doughnuts... ya the biggest legal drug dealers around... get you hooked (strung out)
on their legal..HIGH....they should be procesecuted!


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I think if the problem got severe enough, Terrence has a good idea. Help keep cost down for ho's. Might make some of them make a quicker decision on whether to have painting done or not. Sometimes a fast rolling nickel is better than a slow rolling dime.


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## Paintpimp (Nov 15, 2006)

FYI, You can request the SW store that services your account not to send out the mailings. You would only receive your statement at the beginning of the month.


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

*Best method of charging?*



AAPaint said:


> Umm....your customers should be paying for the paint, and you should be getting a markup on it for pick up, delivery, and handling. If you are marking it up a percentage, then more expensive paint means more markup. I'm piling up work left and right using SW paints. I charge at least 20% on top of retail for the paint, and there is no issue.
> 
> Paint is not a painter's expense. It's the customers. I don't pay for paint, rags, caulk, putty, primers, or anything. There is a margin for all of this stuff in every job I sell.
> 
> I'm not going to boycott any paint manufacturer because ultimately I let the decision lie with the customer about that anyway. I recommend the line I like, and ask if they prefer something else. Usually, I get to use what I like.


My Grandpa always charged cost plus which is a pretty sweet deal, but that was a while back when he mixed the colors on the job. What is the most effective way in your opinion of giving a price quote? Square foot, room by room, labor only plus paint or with the paint built into the price? Also, when it comes to multiple colors my Grandpa always charged $150 per color choice. What is your take on multiple colors?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> Grandpa always charged $150 per color choice.


Regardless of the area being painted?


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

boman47k said:


> Regardless of the area being painted?


Yes. My Grandpa was a master painter that was in high demand and never had to advertise. His explanation was the clean up between colors and the time it took to switch a man that was on the clock to another room to be painted. This was also during the oil based days.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Sorry, I was thinking trim one color, ceiling one color, walls one color =450.oo!  Have a better understanding now.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

4thGeneration said:


> My Grandpa always charged cost plus which is a pretty sweet deal, but that was a while back when he mixed the colors on the job. What is the most effective way in your opinion of giving a price quote? Square foot, room by room, labor only plus paint or with the paint built into the price? Also, when it comes to multiple colors my Grandpa always charged $150 per color choice. What is your take on multiple colors?


I price everything by sq. ft. of wall space or ln. ft. on trim, and that's it. I figure how many hours multiplied by hourly rate, plus materials (and mat. markup), plus overhead, plus profit. I give the customer one single price with no breakdown on material or labor. I make sure I'm thorough in explaining what they get, but I still only give one price. 

For multiple colors, I include up to three wall colors, and charge $150 per color over and above that.


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

AAPaint said:


> I price everything by sq. ft. of wall space or ln. ft. on trim, and that's it. I figure how many hours multiplied by hourly rate, plus materials (and mat. markup), plus overhead, plus profit. I give the customer one single price with no breakdown on material or labor. I make sure I'm thorough in explaining what they get, but I still only give one price.
> 
> For multiple colors, I include up to three wall colors, and charge $150 per color over and above that.


I appreciate the feedback. I have priced it a few different ways and try to tweak it to be the most honest route for my customers and I. I have this job I am doing now that the homeowner gave me a rough idea of colors and now during the job they are putting two colors in each room causing me to take more time to marry the two colors without the gobi desert look. My wife says I should speak up and say something, but how would you elect I do that without sending the owner into the "your nickle and diming me" mode?


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

4thGeneration said:


> I appreciate the feedback. I have priced it a few different ways and try to tweak it to be the most honest route for my customers and I. I have this job I am doing now that the homeowner gave me a rough idea of colors and now during the job they are putting two colors in each room causing me to take more time to marry the two colors without the gobi desert look. My wife says I should speak up and say something, but how would you elect I do that without sending the owner into the "your nickle and diming me" mode?


Everything you are doing in that job (specifically) should have been outlined in a 'scope of work' on the contract. Anything that varies from the 'scope', is considered a change order. You add fries to your burger at the window, they gonna charge you more!
If you don't have a clear and detailed scope written out for the customer/yourself, then you are at the mercy of what the customer _thought_ you were gonna do for their $$$. Good luck with all that.


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

camaroman2125 said:


> I buy most of my paints from ICI and they just send me a bill at the end of every month. I like sherwin williams products, But it seems whenever you go in there to buy something you had better brought some lube with ya for when they bend you over the counter.



That hilarious. I think I have a new sig line.:laughing: 

steve


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## b34nz (Dec 7, 2006)

We only use sherwin williams to buy lacquer primer. The rest of their stuff sucks. =\


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## mark man (Nov 27, 2012)

*sherwin williams is gouging!*

sherwin is gouging , i purchased 10 gallons of promar 200 for 23.00 a gallon then the next day i purchased 10 gallons of promar 400 (a inferior product) and it was 27.00 a gallon a week ago i purchased 10 gallons of showcase and it was 15.00 a gallon and this week it is 21.00 a gallon for the cheap flat wall, i am a contractor and have spent more than $400,000. in sherwin williams paints, the manager hide like a wuss, the sales rep told me to shop at lowes because i mentioned that they just charged me 56.00 a gallon for fence stain and i said it only 32.00 a gallon at lowes, i have been trying to work a price deal with the manager but he wont call me back , i am now going to lowes , the sales rep at lowes is giving me coupon galor and i am saving more money than ever, thanks rob the sherwin rep for recomending to lowes for good paint at a fair price.
:clap:


Dorman Painting said:


> Their price increases are a frikkin joke, in the last five years it seems that paint has gone up considerably more than other products. But this post isn't about their rising costs, which does piss me off.
> 
> Here's my beef, everytime I buy a gallon of paint the next day my mailbox is cluttered with a bill from them. I'm talking every time I buy paint, shouldn't they just send out a bill at the end of the month instead of cluttering my mailbox every time I purchase material from them. They started doing this recently, they weren't doing this two or three years ago. They would just send you ONE bill at the end of the month, that's how most business's conduct business. This is getting on my nerves.


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## DBBII (Aug 28, 2008)

Going back to the original post, it's real simple why they send out bills on a daily basis -- MONEY!! Think about it. If they wait until the end of the month, that could be 30 days. Then, you typically have 30 days to pay, so SW doesn't get their money for 60 days. If they invoice you immediately, they get it in 30!

For the guy getting different prices, talk to your rep. He can lock in prices for you at multiple stores, but there's a very specific procedure he has to follow.

I picked up some Eminence paint the other day while out of town. Going rate is $27.99. Gave store a sob story, got it for $22.99. Called rep later. He said if I would have called him first, he could have priced it for me at $19.00.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

SW sends me one bill a month.


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## CraftPro (Nov 17, 2012)

^ To AA Paint above: That's exactly how I do it too, and I just started my business less than a year ago (after working for years in the industry but never given any insight to how pricing is done).


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> SW sends me one bill a month.


Every month too. They just refuse to let you slide on even a gallon.. :laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Every month too. They just refuse to let you slide on even a gallon.. :laughing:


Never tried, but probably not. 

They only pissed me off once. 

I went over whatever limit they gave me, $5,000 or so a couple years ago. Never been late, never not paid. One of my hands stopped and got 30 gallons of Super Paint and they gave it to him but called me and told me i was over. 

For whatever reason, it struck a nerve. I brought a check in that afternoon, but told the manager I was pissed about the "limit". Im using your product exclusively and painting a big custom project, $5,000 is a BS arbitrary number. Ive had more than $40,000 at one time, probably much more at my lumber yards, never been a question.

Never came up again.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I usually just pay for the paint on the spot because its easier. We have the revolving account for the guys and subs to use.


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## Builder Butch (Jan 30, 2012)

Those daily emails get on my nerves also, but everyone is doing it now. My rep called me the other day and ask if I needed anything and I said " yes better pricing so I can quit using other manufactuers" She cut me a good deal and lock me in the computer. Dropped my Super paint $13 per gallon. I can now make another couple hundred dollars per job. Just ask for it.


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## Andrew LB (Oct 7, 2012)

I threw in the towel last year after 5 years of exclusively using their products. The prices have not only gone up considerably, but they also fluctuate a lot without any clear pattern. Every time I walked in the door I felt like like I was playing roulette. More than anything it sometimes causes me to bid a job based on the wrong prices. Plus they just didn't seem to care about keeping me as a customer after two incidents where I was told one price on the phone that nobody seemed to know anything about when I came in to pick up the order.

I buy all my paint through Dunn-Edwards now and am very pleased. Their Suprema interior paint is easily on par with much more expensive SW paints and their Evershield exterior is the best i've ever used. I like it so much it's what I'm currently painting my own home with. This guy sums it up well.


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## joethepainter (Dec 1, 2012)

Been a licensed painter for over a decade now. The local SW is a joke. Just last week I needed a gallon of Duration Exterior matched up. $50 and some change... OK. Pay the man and come back the next day for another of the same gallon, but a different chap was working the counter this morning. Same gallon one day later cost me $65 and some change...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I usually just pay for the paint on the spot because its easier. We have the revolving account for the guys and subs to use.


We pay the account off once a month with a corporate CC. Then pay that. 

Stacking those points :thumbsup:


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

I geuss I should feel blessed having a great rep and store to work out of. I love the SW product line, but their brushes suck, and their rollers are complete garbage. but I love their paint. My rep gave me a top of the line purdy brush to try... I gave it back to him... Then I gave him a Wooster Alpha to try on his own, 2 weeks later, he admitted that the Wooster is a better product. As far as roller covers, I buy those at Home Depot, real lambs wool. They lay the paint very nicely, and take literally 5 minutes to clean a 3/4" instead of 30-40 min with SW's crappy rollers.


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## Pete'sfeets (Mar 20, 2011)

I didn't see anything wrong with their roller sleeves ,much like anywhere else ,, but that emerald satin where they say only a purdy sleeve will do is horse doodles, that paint goes on like poopno matter how you cut it, and you'll smell like it too if you put it on for a customer. They don't care what's good or not , so long as it gets sold and goes out the door, can't bring it back once it's on the wall. I.m not one for official returns , I just show up,, rant about and say proudly I ain't returning. Refunds not necessary because they won't mean anything to me anyhow.


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

As the original thread starter, I was SHOCKED to see this thread reactivated after almost 7 years. That was the way I felt at the time because they were constantly sending hordes and hordes of mail, cluttering my mailbox. 

What we started doing THIS YEAR is paying off the paint on the spot. If I go into SW tomorrow morning and spend four hundred bucks, I pay on the spot...no waiting until the end of the month jazz that just puts your finances in a bigger strain. If at all possible, I HIGHLY recommend all painters to operate their business in this manner. It is so much easier to navigate your finances when you pay on the spot because you don't have that $2000.00 lump sum payment due at the end of the month. I do realize some painters are way to big to operate in this manner but for me, it's worked out great this year and I plan on trying to stay on this path. 

To the person above griping about SW's brushes and rollers, I have to disagree. We use the Purdy brush that has blue bristles, it's the high end Purdy and is a bit stiffer, this allows it to hold it's shape much better. It's our go to brush for trim and walls, it's quite the brush as it performs well in oil or water. For a quality roller, try the Purdy Collasus. It's a high end roller and costs about 8 bucks per sleeve but it's money well spent. Those two products are what we've found to be the best for our needs...but I'm always on the look out for the next best brush.


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## PatsPainting (Sep 22, 2010)

Dorman Painting said:


> As the original thread starter, I was SHOCKED to see this thread reactivated after almost 7 years. That was the way I felt at the time because they were constantly sending hordes and hordes of mail, cluttering my mailbox.
> 
> What we started doing THIS YEAR is paying off the paint on the spot. If I go into SW tomorrow morning and spend four hundred bucks, I pay on the spot...no waiting until the end of the month jazz that just puts your finances in a bigger strain. If at all possible, I HIGHLY recommend all painters to operate their business in this manner. It is so much easier to navigate your finances when you pay on the spot because you don't have that $2000.00 lump sum payment due at the end of the month. I do realize some painters are way to big to operate in this manner but for me, it's worked out great this year and I plan on trying to stay on this path.
> 
> To the person above griping about SW's brushes and rollers, I have to disagree. We use the Purdy brush that has blue bristles, it's the high end Purdy and is a bit stiffer, this allows it to hold it's shape much better. It's our go to brush for trim and walls, it's quite the brush as it performs well in oil or water. For a quality roller, try the Purdy Collasus. It's a high end roller and costs about 8 bucks per sleeve but it's money well spent. Those two products are what we've found to be the best for our needs...but I'm always on the look out for the next best brush.



Personally I think just the opposite. Much easier to just pay one bill and write one check. Everything is right there on your bill. I'm a small time guy too.

Then again I'm a BM guy so maybe if I shopped at SW I might think differently from reading all the posts how prices change on a daily basis.

Pat


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

I disagree, how could it be easier to pay one monster bill for say three grand at the end of the month versus paying as you go? Paying as you go allows you the freedom to know you won't have to pony up a ton of money at the end of every month. 

We've been in business since the late 90's and we always paid one big bill at the end of every month. This year I changed my approach and it's worked really, really well for us. Of course this also depends on your financial situation and everyone's is different. I'm just saying for us it works out much better than trying to pay off a whopper of a bill every thirty days.


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