# Glue Removal From Concrete Floor



## Vfontana

We have a client that wants the carpet squares removed from the concrete floor and the floor left bare concrete. My question is, how do I remove the glue from the concrete?


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## mikeswoods

How big an area and how clean?

Small area,razor scrapers and a buffer with carborundum stone set---

Big area? I'll let a commercial floor guy answer that one.


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## Vfontana

6000 Square Feet. How clean? Just no sticky glue. It will be an art studio.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Concrete polishers or epoxy installers have the equipment to remove at an efficient pace, price? There are various levels of removal, really there should only be pressure sensitive adhesive down, if roll carpet was installed and removed say 3 times the buildup is heavy, pressure sensitive goes on real thin , 1/16" square notch at most.
Removal process may include some of the slab utilizing the dust for removal of the sticky stuff, or latex adhesive from roll carpet may be brittle, or it may be gooey from ps adhesive breaking it down. An agreement should be made by a test sample of removal area for final surface, may end up like this.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

mikeswoods said:


> How big an area and how clean? Small area,razor scrapers and a buffer with carborundum stone set--- Big area? I'll let a commercial floor guy answer that one.


The tooling is usually the same, the machinery to turn the tooling just gets bigger. Diamonds of some type or another are used, maybe carbide chips but diamonds are more efficient.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

So maybe a wet scrape/grind dissolving solution with a walk behind scrubber to vac pick up residue may be sufficient.


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## charimon

Mike I think you handled that rather well


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I've heard some spread Portland cement (dry ) on top, let it sit a day and grind that off with the adhesive.
I'm wondering if removal of just enough adhesive and the rest acting like a sealer, which filled and absorbed into the pores of the concrete.


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## Vfontana

The floor grinder with diamond inserts and a little white sand spread worked but took way too long. 4 hours to do about 100 SF.
I am looking into shot blasting that a local commercial floor guy told me about.


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## BKM Resilient

Vfontana said:


> The floor grinder with diamond inserts and a little white sand spread worked but took way too long. 4 hours to do about 100 SF.
> I am looking into shot blasting that a local commercial floor guy told me about.


The pressure sensitive adhesives we use for carpet tiles are amongst the most difficult to remove afterward for future flooring applications. 

I've used TSP, adhesive removers, scrape-away plates------I don't ever have to do this for a bare/sealed/stained concrete look though. I'm just trying to get to the slab for a warranted bond of the subsequent installation patch or glue. 

Most of the time if it's a smaller scale, lower end type of project we just skim coat over and bury it. 

Even shot blasting can be problematic. Your shot blasting sub will certainly be aware of what I'm talking about. The BBs want to BOUNCE off the PSA if it's a really premium product applied very thick. 

You may have to use some chemicals and then shot blast that residue off. Problem with that is you've torn the finish off the slab and now you'll have to resurface.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I saw yesterday a lower end store concrete painted over latex adhesive and the trowel ridges were like a nonskid, though they were latex carpet based and probably latex paint.
The psa may not allow a proper bond.

Machinery and diamonds work , shotblasting ? Usually done after adhesive is removed, and done for a seamless floor in order to bond sufficiently to prevent from peeling.
A close up would be nice and a little scrape with utility knife maybe going into slab to see how hard/soft it is.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I know right , an empty canvas!


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## tsb

As someone mentioned earlier, shot blasting doesn't typically remove tacky adhesives. A grinder or similar is the way to go.


If it is a PSA, spreading cement helps the glue from gumming up and just smearing around while grinding. We typically use carbide scrapers or PCD blades under our grinders to remove the majority of the adhesive without it smearing around then come back with metal bond diamonds to clean up after the glue is removed. 


You may be able to get scrapeaways under a floor buffer and get a decent amount of the glue removed. I've heard they rent 'em at home depot. Here's a video of them in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5HQtiqKavs&noredirect=1


There's a real good chance your project won't go as good as the video. That looks like a nice hard, flat, smooth troweled finish. It's definitely an ideal situation for that tooling. It's also not PSA so probably not as gummy as your project...


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## schaefercs

I used a dimabrush buffer disc which I rented from Home Depot for a 2000 sf removal of a combination of glue down carpet adhesive and vct mastic.

Took two of us running buffers 9 hours a day, 6 days to remove it all to bare concrete. I priced it for 2 days. That's the worst I've lost my azz this year.


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## ccoffer

A much simpler solution is to pour in a self leveling compound that is rated as a wear surface.

Here is one. There are plenty to choose from.


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## KennMacMoragh

I used an angle grinder with a diamond wheel to remove glue from a pulled up vinyl floor on concrete. It took longer than 4 hours every 100 SF, and made the worst dust.


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## ccoffer

If you're just the removal guy and it's carpet tile, flood the floor and cover it with plastic for a day. Then, come back and peel the plastic away as you remove the residue. It's easy work, but the finish coat might still show where the adhesive was.


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## ccoffer

A little denatured alcohol in there wouldn't hurt either. It will become vapor as soon as you take the top off your sandwich, though, so you need to work in as small an area as possible as you pull the plastic off.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

KennMacMoragh said:


> I used an angle grinder with a diamond wheel to remove glue from a pulled up vinyl floor on concrete. It took longer than 4 hours every 100 SF, and made the worst dust.


I grinded 300 sq ft. In 1-1/2 hours of carpet adhesive, little brittle-1/16" thick, smooth enough for thin,thin vinyl plank all in one step, dust free, and I considered it slow, just depends on equipment you want to purchase and whether it will be used enough to justify the cost, or the lung damage.


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## tsb

ccoffer said:


> A much simpler solution is to pour in a self leveling compound that is rated as a wear surface.
> 
> Here is one. There are plenty to choose from.


You still need to remove any potential bond breaker down to clean mechanically profiled concrete with this and most other overlay products.

I'd also be cautious when using flammable materials as a stripper.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

What's the cheapest way possible is how I interpreted it, I say leave the residue to avoid slip and fall lawsuits.


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## madrina

Find your local concrete supply store and rent the husqvarna 630 and vacuum. DONT ADD WATER TO THE FLOOR. The diamond machine from home depot is a pos dont waste youre money. Plus the floor is 6000 sq feet people. he will be buffing for 15 years with that.

Youll have to figure out how soft the concrete is and theres a little tool we scrape on the concrete for that... several really, whichever tool actually scrapes the concrete will tell you its hard/softness.

then youre going to have to buy the diamond metal blades that go on the machine and they are 600$ a set

Here the machine rental and vacuum is $600 a day $900 over the weekend and they also have weekly rates. To grind the floor like you need to, You will need to go very very very slow. Make one pass then come back in a straight line and overlap the area about an inch or so.. When I say slow I mean about 10 seconds per inch. I know it sounds crazy but its really not that bad. If you go faster youre going to scratch the floor up and it looks like crap. 

The 630 is about 32 inches wide and the 580 is about 21 inches wide. (or something like that) anyway the bigger one will complete the job about 20% faster. If you go faster youre going to scratch the floor up and it looks like crap.

Does she want the concrete polished up? If so youre going to need some ceramic diamond blades and resin diamond blades too. DEPENDING ON HOW HIGH OF A SHINE youre customer wants, thats how you determine your grit sequence. For a pretty decent shine youll go with 60/80 grit metals then 50, 100, 200, 400, ceramics then 500, 800, 1000, 2000 resins Yes thats 9 levels of grinding and polishing. You dont have any prep and theres no clean up. So you just need to find you a worker to push the thing, and make sure he pushes slow. They all try to rush the process when no one is looking, and you may not notice until you polish it back up to about a 400 and you will start to see swirls. GUESS how you get those out? You start over.

If the customer wants aggregate showing (which is really awesome but wont stain or dye well) make two passes with the metals or until you see aggregate. Going rate ... pm me if you want to know. Yes its expensive, yes its time consuming. Yes you have to be suited up, gloves and respirator the ENTIRE TIME.. if you let that crap get on your skin or hair, just plan on feeling like you have brick skin for about 3 months and kiss your lungs good bye.

The vac sucks most of it up, but there is still plenty in the air you cant see. if you see a trail of concrete dust on the ground, just push the skirt on the grinder down more... you shouldnt see anything but white concrete.. ill post some pics

Then you get two people, rent another machine called a burnisher... one person squirts densifier on the floor with a bug sprayer and another person goes very quickly behind him and rubs it in with a swifter looking thing, 18 inches tho... You'll want to cover no more that the guy with the swifter can reach in front of him... because you dont want him stepping in the densifier and you don't want to over lap this stuff... just start at one end and work in strips of 5 feet... then get the burnisher revved up ( this is the fun part) and go as fast as you can all over the floor with it. ps you better be moving when you start it up or it will burn the heck out of your floor when it hits the ground.

Youre concrete rep should deliver and demonstrate how to use the machinery.

the first pic is what it looks like if you are grinding too fast
the second pic is what it should look like if you are grinding at the right speed. theres 3 levels of grit in the second pic

third pic notice the swirls... grinding too fast

fourth and fifth pic is a before and after and the 6th pic is what the floor should look like after the first grind.. just white.


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## madrina

heres a few more during the process


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## tsb

Polishing the concrete would not be the cheapest option.

Btw the Husky 820 is 32 inches. The 680 is 27".

He'd also need to rent a generator if there isn't 480 volt power for that equipment.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Good info on the polishing , gotta go back and absorb the process and I have couple questions, sometimes I feel like we're talking to the floor(wall)


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## madrina

tsb said:


> Polishing the concrete would not be the cheapest option.
> 
> Btw the Husky 820 is 32 inches. The 680 is 27".
> 
> He'd also need to rent a generator if there isn't 480 volt power for that equipment.


Ooooh yeah I forgot about that.. and I had my numbers for the machines backwards.. I knew that when I was typing them.. thanks for the correction. 

To add to that, youre going to need 2 220s for the machine and vac. I usually hardwire right into the breaker with the 530, (dont do it if you dont know how and dont even think about doing it if an inspector is going to be there) and I plug the vac into the dryer plug.

the 680 does have a 220 option, I wouldn't suggest it tho, not with the vacuum pulling power too. Seems like it would stall out with any typical set up.

And you're correct, polishing won't be cheap but if he wants the glue off, he doesn't have any other choice but to grind it off, right? Seems like I've tried every method and product and technique I could find and still had problems. 

then he's going to have to polish back up to a 400 to stain or dye it and at that point, you might as well talk them into just polishing.

Its almost a waste to do all that work and then have to basically start from scratch doing an acid stain... plus I think a lot of the beauty of the acid stain comes from the range of color on old concrete. If you grind all that off, it looks kind of blah to me. 

There's always so much to consider on every job and results are moderately unpredictable wouldn't you agree? I have the clients pick out pictures of what they want so I know we're on the same page.


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## madrina

tsb said:


> As someone mentioned earlier, shot blasting doesn't typically remove tacky adhesives. A grinder or similar is the way to go.
> 
> If it is a PSA, spreading cement helps the glue from gumming up and just smearing around while grinding. We typically use carbide scrapers or PCD blades under our grinders to remove the majority of the adhesive without it smearing around then come back with metal bond diamonds to clean up after the glue is removed.
> 
> You may be able to get scrapeaways under a floor buffer and get a decent amount of the glue removed. I've heard they rent 'em at home depot. Here's a video of them in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5HQtiqKavs&noredirect=1
> 
> There's a real good chance your project won't go as good as the video. That looks like a nice hard, flat, smooth troweled finish. It's definitely an ideal situation for that tooling. It's also not PSA so probably not as gummy as your project...


Wow. That video is nothing like how any of my jobs have ever gone.. and my gosh, I've never seen that much glue on anything lol.. 



KennMacMoragh said:


> I used an angle grinder with a diamond wheel to remove glue from a pulled up vinyl floor on concrete. It took longer than 4 hours every 100 SF, and made the worst dust.


Omg! I can imagine!! How could you even see what you were doing? Those diamond blades on an angle grinder are BRUTAL. You definitely have to use a variable speed grinder... and they are a bit hard to locate in big box stores. 

That is a 2 person job... one to hold the vacuum hose and one to grind.. I hate doing the edges, but don't even think about putting an unskilled laborer on it.. he will gouge out 3 times as much glue as he takes off. Lol. 



tsb said:


> I'd also be cautious when using flammable materials as a stripper.


Tro' some lacquer thinner on it and after about ten minutes set it on fire. That glue will come right up.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Yeah that video is perfect conditions, that was very hard concrete, that adhesive may have been soaking wet at one point.
I'm on a psa hardwood removal there's chunks of slab coming up, after that the scraper blade to a minimum residue, then some grinding for a travertine install.


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## madrina

Oh my. Did the customer freak out? What a mess some of these jobs turn into!


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Took over 2-1/2 days, at first customer was upset, hell so was I. I just called Mapei on how to remove pressure sensitive, they said razor scraper, the ride on removed a bunch but couldn't get in some areas. The ps adhesive wouldn't die, you step on it and it sticks back to the floor. There are too many variables to know what condition the slab is in. This is how we left it, tile guys can prep for their product


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## ee3

Citra Solv ?


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I've heard a lot about not using any type of chemicals because it soaks into the concrete , the raises to top and dissolves adhesive of new flooring, maybe for no flooring it would be ok.


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## madrina

I haven't heard that, and it seems like a solvent would evaporate as opposed to resurfacing or what not, but heck, I've seen some crazy things happen in construction... and you never know what it will do til it does it and you're left to clean up the mess... and ill be the first to add.... if it can be screwed up, I've screwed it up. But all taught me a valuable lesson..


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## Vfontana

This is how we did it. With a grinder that weight 800 pounds. 240 volts 3 phase. It cost me $1.00 per square foot and did the job in 1½ days.
Well worth it.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

That was a very fair price, Prepmaster is a good machine, I wonder their steps, what they started and ended with.


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## Vfontana

Mike, I don't know what you mean about steps. They put on some type of carbide looking teeth on the grinding wheels and never changed them. Remember we are only trying to remove the glue and leave bare concrete. No polishing.


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## Direct

A product called Oil Flow roll it on let it sit scrape and mop..
no grinding..


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Ok , didn't know if scraping away would have caused gouges and needed to be ground down , from the picture all I saw was the adhesive residue which looked like a lot, maybe multiple layers over the years. Could've been carbide or pcd.


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## tsb

I'd guess metal bond diamonds based on all the dust left on the floor.


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## madrina

I'd say your skirt was too high based on all the dust left on the floor..  push the skirt tight against the floor and the vac will suck all of that up. Next time.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Yes, very odd, my system picks up as removed, you can actually see what your accomplishing, I don't know the reason but you wouldn't have to stop and empty the vacs, you can broom it all together and shovel it in the trash, the vac may just be getting the potentially airborne dust, there's a big void of the process, fine with me but raises questions, I like to know others processes so my dumb ass doesn't do something the harder,slower, less better way if my wallet can afford it.


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## madrina

Its the skirt for sure. Doesn't your vac empty itself? I just change the bag.. filters are leather and they take a beating w that dust... I'm not sure anyone ever services them. 

I took the vac apart once and took the filters out and stuck my air compressor hose in there and blew 50 years worth of dust out of each one. It was the biggest dust storm dallas has ever seen! Lol.. everyone within 200 yards was coughing and I covered every car completely. Oh man. People were pissed off that day. Lol


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I have the cdc Larue pulse bac 1250, it's got a tank, I dump that into contractor bags, 100 lbs at a time.
What vac do you use? I'm thinking about getting an Ermator S-36, (thinking)!


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## madrina

I use the husqvarna.. it sells for about $15 k

I've never had a prob with the machine, aside from getting the filters wet and it doesn't turn easily.. its loud and bulky, but it when the trash gets full, there's a vibrate button to shake the filters and that's purdy cool. Theres no way to connect the bag either so we just use a little bungie cord. 

Good machine sucky design.


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## charimon

Well tomorrow i am ordering a Vac 

I still haven't decided whether it will be the Ermator S26 or the PB 1250


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Why not get both! That Husqvarna funky cold Madrina has, is that not an Ermator? I need to get my hands on one, I see their American headquarters(Pullman holt) is in Tampa.
Make you a deal, if you don't like the pb-1250, I'll buy it from you in 3 months or less, I need another one(plus shipping) you got my word.
I may buy the ermator from you as well, what's the CFM? I was looking at the 36.


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## charimon

Deal 
The cfm is 258 with a 100" water colunm

the PB is 300 with a 70"

I will put the order in and give you updates.

are you using an EDCO tg10? for your heavier grinding?

edit 
the S36 has 350 cfm with 110 lift


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Yes, thinset grinding I use two hooked up to a Modified TG-10, (some of Jack Kings Mods, not complete though few other components to upgrade) that's why I need another one for hand grinding or other tool hookups. I just put together vacuum wand assembly from spare parts or other vacuum rip offs , a 2" I.D. Pickup, I've vacuumed up rags, 2 slices of bread in a bag on customers counters, I still freak cautiously when that hose is around my face if it comes off wand.
One thing about pb-1250 is they say replace filters every 6 months at 220$, I washed filters for 1-1/2 years, they take couple days to dry, so I had extra set. Dust migration is reason they say replace.


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## charimon

Mike I pulled the trigger yesterday on the Ermator It shippd and should be here monday I will let you know what I think. Almost bought a RUWAC

How does the EDCO do on Flattening some of Jack's Videos suggest it is the best small machine out for such tasks. wondering how it would be say against a Lavina L 21 VS. they are about the same Price point.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I looked at ruwac , didn't look like much capacity for dust, it would be nice to use all these brands for a couple months to find likes/dislikes prior to purchase.
With the ermator do you have to stop and use the shaker? What's tank capacity before you have to stop and drop? I like the 110 v due to availability.
The planetary is more versatile but for flat out grinding high spots the Tg-10 (Jacks got about 6k in custom modifications) will work faster, it's 220v. I would use the planetary way more for general prep. It would remove adhesives, coatings etc. Just have buy all the tooling.
If there wasn't so much dust left on the floor from the op's pictures I think we would be done.


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## madrina

U guys can rent these machines ya know and test them out. For me the most important features are how close to the wall they get, how the disks are attached (pucks or velcro) and how easy they are to load. All of which get an f with the husqvarna. Imo.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I can't rent anything, the rental co.'s near me are clueless.


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## charimon

The ermator drops dust into the bag at every stop of the vac the pulse clean is when ever you need it and can keep vacing. Then nice thing about the longo pac is no mess disposing of the dust.

I have talked with several other Decorative concrete folks and they all seem to love the Ruwac because of the filters. Sounds weird but apparently they have a 3 year guarantee on them. and because they are simple manual shake cleaning they never have anything break. 
Apparently CDC Larue used to have serious problems with the little circut board that controls the pulse bac relays. 
Same here about rental companies. I would love not to drop several K sight unseen on a tool but that is my life.

I have a chance to start doing wood floor concrete prep, clean and flatten slabs, in addition to my own tile prep.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

So you shut the vac off and automatically it will dump into bag?
And the pulse bac is not timed but you hit a button when you notice filters clogging?
I haven't had any circuit board problems, just pins that cycle the valves. An on/off switch and two 15 amp fuses.
I don't think grinding concrete is the same as grinding thinset, I have no other concrete dust vacuum to compare it to, yet


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## charimon

I have the feeling that this is the First of several vacs so we will have a good idea of it's capabilities soon.

as far a purging the filters. it is not automatic (you can get an auto purge 3rd party accessory( I will let you know how big of an inconvenience it is)

Thanks for the info on the edco


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## Inner10

charimon said:


> The ermator drops dust into the bag at every stop of the vac the pulse clean is when ever you need it and can keep vacing. Then nice thing about the longo pac is no mess disposing of the dust.
> 
> I have talked with several other Decorative concrete folks and they all seem to love the Ruwac because of the filters. Sounds weird but apparently they have a 3 year guarantee on them. and because they are simple manual shake cleaning they never have anything break.
> Apparently CDC Larue used to have serious problems with the little circut board that controls the pulse bac relays.
> Same here about rental companies. I would love not to drop several K sight unseen on a tool but that is my life.
> 
> I have a chance to start doing wood floor concrete prep, clean and flatten slabs, in addition to my own tile prep.


I must admit it always looked like a horrible job grinding concrete...I hope you like lots of noise dust and working overnights.:whistling


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Careful what you ask for! I'll post more later.

Vacs drive me crazy, a 50% improvement in current production would be nice .


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

Did a dust free tile removal, night work 175 miles away, pizza restaurant everything covered over in a mud bed, plumbing, electric, metal columns , computer wire. Lots of prep work left, carpet adhesive residue in other section. Concrete polishing is over multiple days, some people don't mind that when your conditioned to it.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI

I looked around a couple minutes, they were on lunch break, I got the reps phone number, called an hour earlier, said he has Demos.
Aston Martin in visitor parking spot.


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## madrina

yes mike.. when the vac shuts off a little flap opens and dumps the dust into the bag below.. then u push the shake button and it dumps a little more. i shake the vac just about every time i dump it because well... why not... 

you have to wait til the vac completely stops before you start shaking tho or it will tear the rubber um ... flashing... lol i dont know what the hell its called... im a roofer in my real life. 

its like a grommet or something... anyway... if you tear that rubber piece, it interferes with the suction. AND NO BODY WANTS THAT. :whistling yeah. just wait til it shuts down completely before you shake.


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