# Replacing stair treads



## innovous (May 26, 2007)

We will be replacing stair treads for a client on an exterior, spiral staircase. The plan is to use AZEK boards (plastic as opposed to a composite like Trex). Simple enough, right?

Well, here is the rub: The customer is dead set on using a butt-joint/rub-joint on the long edges (he is a hobbyist carpenter), with the goal of having a cleaner look.

I have explained to him the expansion/contraction properties of this material, and the need for drainage because of encapsulated stringers.

He doesn't care. He doesn't think the boards will expand & contract that much.

Since this is an add-on to a current remodel (and he is a good customer) I want to do it, but I am worried about the warranty side.

Anybody have advice or experience with AZEK boards? Am I just over-worrying about this?

Thanks.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Letting the customer tell you how to do your job is a recipe for disaster.


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## innovous (May 26, 2007)

He is not telling me how to do my job. Either I decide to do it, or I don't.


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## hharshaw (Dec 20, 2008)

As a business owner, you should be concerned with warranty issues as they may arise. To start off right you should set the expectation that you are not familiar with this product and its actual expansion and contraction issues. This is still a fairly new product and should be tested in the field more to give a more quantitative answer. In statistics when there is a set of variables with no real data points to compare against this is considered not enough information to base an answer on. So for the stair treads you need to make clear in writing and get it sighned, that you are not the manufacturer and should not be held liable for using the product in a manner that might void manifacturers warranty. 

You need to protect yourself for all cases. Even a good customer can go bad.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Take a good look at the installation
PDF on the Azek site.
It won't span more than 16" oc,
and they want solid blocking
under the joints for treads.
If you can't meet those conditions
it won't fly.
This stuff isn't really structural.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

If you need the work, have the HO sign off on the installation details that he is insisting on. His request will surely cause problems down the road. G


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

genecarp said:


> If you need the work, have the HO sign off on the installation details that he is insisting on. His request will surely cause problems down the road. G


Signing off by the HO is meaningless. The contractor is considered the professional, the HO is considered ignorant (and probably is). Nothing the homeowner signs or agrees to relieves the professional from his responsibilities. Those responsibilities include: meeting minimum code requirements, following manufacturers instructions/recommendations, delivering a product in a workmenlike manner.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

If someone gets hurt on those stairs will your waiver hold up in court and pay for your defense?


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

thom said:


> Signing off by the HO is meaningless. The contractor is considered the professional, the HO is considered ignorant (and probably is). Nothing the homeowner signs or agrees to relieves the professional from his responsibilities. Those responsibilities include: meeting minimum code requirements, following manufacturers instructions/recommendations, delivering a product in a workmenlike manner.


That just doesn't sound right. It seems to me you should be able to do a job and say "Hey I can't guarantee this". I'd ask a construction law attorney in the area.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

KennMacMoragh said:


> That just doesn't sound right. It seems to me you should be able to do a job and say "Hey I can't guarantee this". I'd ask a construction law attorney in the area.


go ask your attorney. Some of us have been there. 

Many businesses use waivers all the time. I'm a scuba diver. Every dive operation has every customer sign a waiver. They don't hold up in court. I'm a balloonist. Every balloonist has every rider sign a waiver, they don't hold up in court either. A customer cannot sign away his right to sue you for not doing things properly. The law doesn't allow that so the waiver will not hold up. 

Beyond that, code requires you to follow manufacturers recommendations. If you don't follow those recommendations you are violating building code. The statute of limitations on that starts running when the violation is discovered. You could be held responsible by a subsequent owner. You could be held responsible by a visitor who slips or a child or ......


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## innovous (May 26, 2007)

neolitic said:


> Take a good look at the installation
> PDF on the Azek site.
> It won't span more than 16" oc,
> and they want solid blocking
> ...


Neolitic -- thanks, this is what I was looking for.

Good stuff all, Thanks for all the advice...


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

thom said:


> Signing off by the HO is meaningless. The contractor is considered the professional, the HO is considered ignorant (and probably is). Nothing the homeowner signs or agrees to relieves the professional from his responsibilities. Those responsibilities include: meeting minimum code requirements, following manufacturers instructions/recommendations, delivering a product in a workmenlike manner.


This is so true & what I try to politely explain to so many on here. I'm not a lawyer, but I been involved in so many cases, doing litigation work between Contractors & H/Os. So many times there is this addition in the contract, H/O assumes liability for what ever, h/os signature as well, but in court it stands as Thom has explained above. More than not, the judge favors the h/o even more because with this in writing the Contractor "knew" it was wrong and proceeded. This is such an admission of wrong on the Contractor's side. In other words it was the senence that hung the Contractor. Because of the money, knowing it was wrong, getting the h/o's signature does not make it right. 
Take heed in Thom's words for the next time any may run into this. 
Some things it may work for cause it never makes it to a legal state, but when & if it ever does, this claus will hang you faster than not. Not have it in writing, one can plead no intent to do wrong.


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