# Rewiring in Indiana...



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I bought a house that I'm mostly gutting in Bloomington IN. While I have everything accessible I'd like to install a new panel and rewire everything, since the existing was done very sloppily. Coming from Chicago, I don't have any experience with romex and feel like EMT is favorable, so I plan to do all conduit runs. I know this will not add any value to the house, but does anyone see a reason not to use all EMT, aside from more labor?


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

The only reason you find it favorable is because you are from Chicago. 
It is NO better of a job, other than it is more durable.
The old "I can make changes and rewire easier" is also a myth made up by Chicagoans.
It is FAR easier to make changes/additions/improvements with NM cable in a stick-built residence, especially with attic and basement access.
The ONLY thing conduit does is let you pull new wire to existing locations.

If I were you I'd enlist the help of a fellow electrician friend who is familiar with romex and have him work along side you for a while until you get the hang of it.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Speedy Petey said:


> The only reason you find it favorable is because you are from Chicago.
> It is NO better of a job, other than it is more durable.
> The old "I can make changes and rewire easier" is also a myth made up by Chicagoans.
> It is FAR easier to make changes/additions/improvements with NM cable in a stick-built residence, especially with attic and basement access.
> ...


+1. You'll be surprised how much less labor it is, too - there's a reason everywhere else is different from Chicago. No whining about solid conductors either, if you've been using stranded.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm not arguing that conduit is always superior, just wanted other peoples' input on my situation. For me to use Romex will save me time and money because I can use all of the existing stuff that isn't degraded or damaged. Since 99% of counties use Romex to code, it will be good to familiarize myself with using it.


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

Dude, you're f-n nuts. Use your emt for the garage and go nuts. Embrace the rest of the country and try romex! Seriously, look up the pros and cons for installation and remodel!


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Whatever you decide is fine, as long as you're not a Cubs fan, in which case whatever you decide is wrong.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Just fyi, I get where the OP is coming from. Once you're used to EMT it's extremely hard to adjust to romex.:thumbsup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Sorta like drinking warm beer from a can & then finding out your neighbor has a 33 degree kegger.....:whistling:thumbup::laughing:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Just take you time until you get the hang of it. Regardless what you doing you have to drill holes and run something through them. Running Romex you are eliminating one step. I always go through a home drilling holes everywhere i deem a circuit may need to go. Then go around dropping boxes on the floor where i want them. I have a stick cut to length that i like my box height so i just grab the box and stick, stand it and nail it, this wall all receptacle boxes are the same height. Then i go around nailing switch boxes. After that i run my home runs and then start wiring all the boxes. You will find by the time you get you EMT run and boxes mounted any of us and even yourself will have the romex run into the boxes and gone on to somewhere else. Realistically you can rough in most any room with 8-10 rec. within 15-20 minutes besides the home run.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

Sweet. Thanks for all the input! And im not a cubs fan so it will work out...


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

I just can't imagine running an entire house in EMT, all the bends, offsets, and space constraints would drive me insane. Then when you are done tubin, you still got to pull all that wire? No wonder Chicago is broke


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

If the walls are open its not that bad, but fishing it through existing 100 year old plaster is not cool.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Cutting the plaster/lathe isnt too bad but getting up through the fire blocks are the challenge. I am curious of how it is done in your neck of the woods if you must run EMT or are you allowed MC for old work/remodeling? Fishing can be a hassle but once you get a knack of it and learn the different construction techniques, short cuts and what tools to use fishing can be done quickly and efficiently. This is where i make good money really, give the HO a description of what must be done, the complications of it and estimate a high number for labor. Most often i do the work when the HO is not around and knock the job out ASAP and move on. HO's love to see what they thought was an impossible job be done to their liking, especially when you leave no signs of you being there and it looks as though the fixture was there the whole time.


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## WyrTwister (Jul 19, 2013)

I have done only a little residental . None in EMT or " BX " .

One of the things I did learn is do not put more than 2 pieces of Romex in a switch / plug box . Never more than 3 . 

You have to get the plug / switch pushed back into that box , when you trim out . Even more of a squeeze with a GFCI plug . :-(

We are required to run at least one 3/4" raceway from the panel to an accessable area of the attic . Often this is smurf tube . This is for future circuits .

Do not forget to plan / install your grounding system .

God bless
Wyr


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

dielectricunion said:


> I bought a house that I'm mostly gutting in Bloomington IN. While I have everything accessible I'd like to install a new panel and rewire everything, since the existing was done very sloppily. Coming from Chicago, I don't have any experience with romex and feel like EMT is favorable, so I plan to do all conduit runs. I know this will not add any value to the house, but does anyone see a reason not to use all EMT, aside from more labor?



Should be lots of fun:thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

WyrTwister said:


> One of the things I did learn is do not put more than 2 pieces of Romex in a switch / *plug* box . Never more than 3 .
> 
> You have to get the *plug* / switch pushed back into that box , when you trim out . Even more of a squeeze with a GFCI *plug* . :-(


I think you mean receptacle.


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## WyrTwister (Jul 19, 2013)

Speedy Petey said:


> I think you mean receptacle.


 Yep . 

Plug is common slang around these parts . But , you are right , receptacle ( usually duplex ) is more correct .

Many / most civillians would have to have a little help with the term receptacle .

God bless
Wyr


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

woodchuck2 said:


> I am curious of how it is done in your neck of the woods if you must run EMT or are you allowed MC for old work/remodeling?


Most the AHJ's allow grounded greenfield in "inaccessible" areas when remodeling. The gray area is when we cut a trench down the middle of a kitchen to redo pendants over an island for example. Then we can usually whip cans from them on a separate switch leg.

However I had one inspector decide that the trench was large enough that we could have piped them for a distance, then converted to greenfield for the remodel cans.

It depends on how anal the inspector is I guess. Normally it's fine but this incident is always in the back of my head when laying things out.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

rselectric1 said:


> Most the AHJ's allow grounded greenfield in "inaccessible" areas when remodeling. The gray area is when we cut a trench down the middle of a kitchen to redo pendants over an island for example. Then we can usually whip cans from them on a separate switch leg.
> 
> However I had one inspector decide that the trench was large enough that we could have piped them for a distance, then converted to greenfield for the remodel cans.
> 
> It depends on how anal the inspector is I guess. Normally it's fine but this incident is always in the back of my head when laying things out.


I simply CANNOT imagine having to deal with that B-S on a daily basis. :blink:


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## hbiss (May 23, 2007)

I had a fellow electrician from Chicago send me pictures of a new house roughed with EMT. Wish I still had them to show. Pretty cool. But they do allow Greenfield for whips like going to a cut-in box that will be installed later for instance.

Ever consider "splitting the difference" and using MC or AC cable? My house was built in 1955 and the EC used AC cable (BX to you rookies). Everything I added is with AC. I know some will disagree and say that Romex is great stuff, but I have seen plenty of times where Romex was chewed by rodents right down to the copper. And I have probably used more Romex than anything else.

-Hal


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

hbiss said:


> (BX to you rookies).


More like BX to you old timers. That's all I ever called it for years, basically until MC become in fashion.


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## hbiss (May 23, 2007)

Yeah, you're right about the old timers. Back then we all knew what BX was. Then along came diy'ers, Home Depot, Lowes and the rest. Now any "squiggly" cable is BX, no matter if it's AC, MC or Greenfield. 

-Hal


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## Silicon Slick (May 10, 2013)

Besides labor the material cost is higher. EMT conduit, boxes, fittings, and stranded cable will cost more than non metallic ROMEX and plastic boxes. You also have bigger holes to drill to accommodate the EMT. Here in California nobody uses EMT in residential work unless there is no other option. But it's your house and your call.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> Just fyi, I get where the OP is coming from. Once you're used to EMT it's extremely hard to adjust to romex.:thumbsup:





griz said:


> Sorta like drinking warm beer from a can & then finding out your neighbor has a 33 degree kegger.....:whistling:thumbup::laughing:


*RS... my experience was more like Griz....*

I had an older chicagoin Sparky, who came out here to be near his daughter, and was new to romex.... and he was a hard working mid-westerner, who at first was a little "proud" to be asking a question...

And was so new to romex he was asking me questions... (I'm a Gc and only know the simpolest of code....)

but after the first day, he was feeling better, after the second was saying we were pu__sies that it was so easy, and after the job was saying something about "being happier that a f____T in boys town."

He was crusty, did great work,... I'm sure anything is new... I can't bend EMT worth a darn... but I can not believe that Romex is not childs play next to EMT.

QUESTION: Anyone really know why Chicago code requires EMT/residential??? (I somehow doubt the politicians are worrying about a rats appetite for romex)

Best

Peter


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> *
> 
> QUESTION: Anyone really know why Chicago code requires EMT/residential??? *


*

I've been asking around for a long time. No real definitive answers, but most of the "guesses" involve some talk of the unions.

So I don't know, but I would be very interested in the truth behind this also.*


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## Silicon Slick (May 10, 2013)

Well I don't know about Chicago but in San Fransisco you have to use cast iron or copper for all waste piping, you can't use ABS or PVC like you can everywhere else, it has to be because of the union and industry influence on the city planning and building department. What else could it be?


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## Travis Bickle (Aug 10, 2013)

I've worked with a few electricians from Chicago over the years, and I think their stricter building codes have more to do with the city's history with catastrophic fire than with union conspiracies.

To the OP, if your walls are open and you have the time and skill, I say go for it roughing it in with pipe. As I've remodeled my house I've used EMT where exposed and MC where fished, and it makes for a great looking, safer job. If NM cable was just as safe, the NEC would let you use it in hospitals and schools.

Have you ever left a piece of PVC pipe in a hot box a little too long?
Those fumes are so toxic even before it gets black your body won't let you inhale as you get near it. There's no way I'm saving 50 cents a box on something my kids sleep next to.


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## WyrTwister (Jul 19, 2013)

Travis Bickle said:


> I've worked with a few electricians from Chicago over the years, and I think their stricter building codes have more to do with the city's history with catastrophic fire than with union conspiracies.
> 
> To the OP, if your walls are open and you have the time and skill, I say go for it roughing it in with pipe. As I've remodeled my house I've used EMT where exposed and MC where fished, and it makes for a great looking, safer job. If NM cable was just as safe, the NEC would let you use it in hospitals and schools.
> 
> ...


 I would doubt anything coming from Chicago . 

Or any one . Or at least the politicians and " public servants " .

If Romex & plastic boxes bother you , use metal boxes & BX .

You probably have 10 - 100 times more " toxic " materials in the furnishings & carpet . Than you do in Romex and plastic boxes .

How about the plugs & switches ? And the plates ? Do you have plastic device plates .

God bless
Wyr


God bless
Wyr


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## Travis Bickle (Aug 10, 2013)

WyrTwister said:


> I would doubt anything coming from Chicago .
> 
> Or any one . Or at least the politicians and " public servants " .
> 
> ...


Well sir, not much chance of my couch having to contain a faulting electrical device, but yes I do always for friends and family use 4"sq. boxes with plaster rings.


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## WyrTwister (Jul 19, 2013)

Travis Bickle said:


> Well sir, not much chance of my couch having to contain a faulting electrical device, but yes I do always for friends and family use 4"sq. boxes with plaster rings.





I realize that it is very common , if the investigators can not / do not determine the cause of a fire , to blame it on an electrical fire .

Truth is , electrical , installed properly , rarely gives any trouble . More likely the device / appliance plugged into the electrical system .

But , as far as couches , I will bet many fires of that sort are caused by smoking ?

Or , what percentage of home fires originate in the kitchen ( grease fires , etc ) ? 

Or fires caused by smoking in bed ? Or by candles ?

But do as you think best . It is a free country . Or , it used to be ( Chicagoans , again ) .

God bless
Wyr


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## Tetrahemicon (7 mo ago)

dielectricunion said:


> I bought a house that I'm mostly gutting in Bloomington IN. While I have everything accessible I'd like to install a new panel and rewire everything, since the existing was done very sloppily. Coming from Chicago, I don't have any experience with romex and feel like EMT is favorable, so I plan to do all conduit runs. I know this will not add any value to the house, but does anyone see a reason not to use all EMT, aside from more labor?


Ignore the anti Chicago goofs. I've used both Romex and EMT in Illinois and Arizona. Romex isn't up to code in Illinois but some property owners don't care because they want to save money. EMT is more expensive but it is more durable. If the next guy puts a screw through it it could short. Plus EMT allows you to pull more wires to a junction box for another device or circuit. It's your property, I say in a free country it's up to you but you'll be liable if anyone gets hurt. Good luck.


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

Your 9 years late & a few dollars short


Mike


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## Tetrahemicon (7 mo ago)

Kingcarpenter1 said:


> Your 9 years late & a few dollars short
> 
> 
> Mike


I realized after I commented that it was an old post but I was just looking for a friend. 
I've been retired for 5 years and am a few dollars short of what I'd like to have.
Apparently you aren't busy working if you have the time to respond to me. I was inquiring for a friend named Michael who's looking into a job as a maintenance technician for a local apartment complex. Good luck and stay young and healthy Mike, I mean that.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

It's Sunday and shouldn't your friend be an electrician if he is going to do electrical work on apartments?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Tetrahemicon (7 mo ago)

VinylHanger said:


> It's Sunday and shouldn't your friend be an electrician if he is going to do electrical work on apartments?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


He just got a text from the person hiring. They want him and have a list of Electrical contractors that he'll call. You have a funday Sunday.


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