# Need help with Ice & Water/ windows.



## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm not a construction worker. I am a manager to a contractor who is pulling me in to jobs that are new to me. I have a question with Ice and Water. I will try to explain this the best I can so not to be too confusing. Bare with me. 

First of all, what is the proper NON brand name for this shield? My main question, I've been given a job to ice and water around windows that are stepped. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this so it doesn't bunch up in the corners and still makes a perfect seal. 

I played around with it today for about an hour and the best seal I've been able to come up with is like a butterfly or better yet, a bow tie cut placed in the corners to seal. A second layer, slit at a 45 degree up to the step, placed on top. When applied, it splits and reveals the bow tie I first applied. It seems to make a nice seal. The rest is easy. Just these corners I'm wanting to make work. Thanks for any help you can give me on this. 

Mods, Im not sure where to put this. Most roofers use this stuff but this is more of a construction or carpenter's question?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Ice and Water shield is pretty thick for window flashing. Have you looked into flashing products that are designed for use around windows available in 3 1/2" and 6" widths? Grace Vycor, Protectowrap, 3M, Zip Tape, etc.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

^^^^^^ What he said. Why are you using Ice and Water shield instead of the proper products? They also make a corner for the window flashings.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

I thought Grace Vycor and Ice and Water were the same but different product names only. Grace Vycor is what I was actually using today. So scrap what I said about Ice and Water and replace it with Grace Vycor. Thanks Eric, VinylHanger.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Reg said:


> Mods, Im not sure where to put this. Most roofers use this stuff but this is more of a construction or carpenter's question?


Mod here :laughing:

I'm not sure exactly where this question belongs either but lets let it ride here for now.

If you want it moved to a specific section, ask one of the mods to move it and they will surely oblige.:thumbsup:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Will do and Thanks rselectric1.

So I just looked up to see that Grace Vycor makes a Prefabricated Corner - That would be an easy solution but I'm sure there is a way to do this nicely without me having to use pre fab corners. No?


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Ice Shield / ice guard. Grace Vycor is a thin non granular type that is okay. The bow tie technique is as good as you can get. Bulky. Beware not all rubber backed adhesives are compatible with pvc window frames.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

This may help a little:

http://www.jlconline.com/windows/flashing-and-trimming-a-window_1.aspx

Also, DuPont and Typar make a flex wrap flashing that is really easy to use for sill flashing. Only drawback is the price. 

Also, as Vinylhanger mentioned, there are corner pieces you can get. Grace makes the Vycorner as an option.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I put my sill flashing on

Caulk the crap out of the corners, the put these over the caulk











Tack them in place with a hammer tacker

Caulk around the window, put the window in,
Then flash the sides and top


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Remember, I'm dealing with a stepped window. So I have that to contend with as well. Thanks again folks.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

It's still the same idea, think like water. Start at the bottom and work up


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

I like cutting up Ice and Water, its much cheaper and the right size for anything is always available.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> It's still the same idea, think like water. Start at the bottom and work up


Thanks. Do you always hammer tack or only on a day when it's cool and not sticking as well?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Reg said:


> Thanks. Do you always hammer tack or only on a day when it's cool and not sticking as well?


Always, it's no fun to have it move when you're trying to put the window in, and I always have a hammer tacker on me when doing windows anyways for tacking the house wrap out of the way. Just 1 or 2 staples in it to keep it in place


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm not sure exactly, can't picture what you mean by stepped. 

DuPont flexwrap sounds like the way to go. It's like a buck and change a box. You can always hang on to it, if you don't use it up. Peace of mind / weathertight= priceless. It'll allow you to flash the window monolithic, no seams, caulk or cuts. 


Weathersmart makes a comparable product for less $. I've used it on one job, didn't find it to be as pliable, flexible as DuPont. It still worked nonetheless .


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

As in a buck and change he means over $200 a 75' roll.

And of still should be caulked anyways


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> As in a buck and change he means over $200 a 75' roll.
> 
> And of still should be caulked anyways


The 6 in is closer to 150, I think, so I'm not sure if 6 in or 9in is what's needed. I'm sure you could check local yards and get the 9 for under 200. The weather smart is definitely cheaper. 


If you use flexwrap for your sill pan, where is caulk required ? Caulk sides and top flanges,


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Ohteah said:


> The 6 in is closer to 150, I think, so I'm not sure if 6 in or 9in is what's needed. I'm sure you could check local yards and get the 9 for under 200. The weather smart is definitely cheaper. If you use flexwrap for your sill pan, where is caulk required ? Caulk sides and top flanges,


I was talking about caulking the sides and top. 6" is 149 and 9" is 219 here. A good caulk will outlast a window so I don't see the point to use flex wrap. And you should use at least 9" for the sill


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> I was talking about caulking the sides and top. 6" is 149 and 9" is 219 here. A good caulk will outlast a window so I don't see the point to use flex wrap. And you should use at least 9" for the sill


I typically use 6 in on 2x4, 9 on 2x6, I hear there is a 5 in, but could be a myth, I've never been able to get it. I can't see not using it, even a good caulk, maybe ten years. It doesn't bond, you have a void, it shrinks, separates etc. It will inevitably fail. 

A sill flashing like flexwrap can't fail, if done properly. Window leaks doesn't matter you wall cavity is bulletproof. IMO.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

If you're only getting 10 years out of caulk you should buy a better caulk.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/W-R-Grace-4-in-x-75-ft-Roll-Fully-Adhered-Flashing-5003100/203057402

It's pretty cheap.

I can get the blue stuff for like .12 a foot for the 6 inch. IIRC.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Here is a two piece corner detail. Probably similar to what you have described.

If cut precisely, the membrane will seal the outside corner.

Vycor has a little stretch to it. Allow the corner alignment about a quarter inch extra on the overlap. Compatible caulk in the corner if you feel the need.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Oh.....and generically they are "waterproofing membranes"


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

VinylHanger said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/p/W-R-Grace-4-in-x-75-ft-Roll-Fully-Adhered-Flashing-5003100/203057402
> 
> It's pretty cheap.
> 
> I can get the blue stuff for like .12 a foot for the 6 inch. IIRC.


I have six of those waiting for me at work today. 

When I say stepped, we had to pad at the window with OSB. My employer is having me pad it out in a way where the stucco guys will wrap their stucco up to meet it, which, creates a step. I'll grab some photos today at work.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Mr. Latone, is it me or is that illustration difficult to read?


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Reg said:


> Mr. Latone, is it me or is that illustration difficult to read?


I dunno. I drew it so I know what it looks like :laughing:

I guess it depends on how big a screen you see it on.

The dashed lines represent where the two pieces would come together.

The bottom piece represents the sill of the R.O. and the other piece represents what would go up the side of the R.O.

Does that help?


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Here, I modeled it from two pieces of paper


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)




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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)




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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Considering this thread went from someone putting roofing materials around windows to the proper uses for flex flashings. 
This was a pretty good read. :thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

3 M makes some of the thinnest flex wraps i ever used,virtually no buildup

be nice to pitch the rough sill to the outside,no sense using all that tape to have it leak on the dining room floor


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Tom Struble said:


> 3 M makes some of the thinnest flex wraps i ever used,virtually no buildup
> 
> be nice to pitch the rough sill to the outside,no sense using all that tape to have it leak on the dining room floor


True. I like using clapboard underneath my pan for a nice pitch. :thumbup:


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## on_the_level (Apr 27, 2011)

Plus one for the 3M. Super thin, flexible, sticks very well to substrate. I just wish more suppliers would stock it!!! As for the sill, hard to beat the flexwrap.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Holy Cow Mr Latone. This is great. I'm a junky for this sort of thing. I'm off to make my own for kicks and practice. I cant thank you enough for all this info.

I got pulled on another job and I didn't even get to it today so this is timely.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

yea..he's an amazing paper bender..:whistling


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

I like to use 3/8 ths backerod for a dam, also run couple inches up the side. Never used the 3M, is it butyl based?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

you can save the flex just for the corners imo,i like to angle the up leg of the corner flashing to help keep moisture flowing to the outside,i put a little foam in the small corner gap under the tape


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

I liked the typar our local yard stopped carrying it. We use Fortifiber/Weathersmart under all our stucco. So fortiflash tapes, with Flexwrap. Our rep signed off on us using Flexwrap and still honor warranty. 


Benjamin Opdyke under all our siding jobs. 

Pulled countless windows with no sill flash or 6 mil plastic. The best is when it's flashed onto sheathing, then the housewrap is on top of everything.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Mr Latone, brilliant! I can't see how water can leak in. What is this fold? I imagine after doing a few of these, it will be old hat.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Tom Struble said:


> yea..he's an amazing paper bender..:whistling


The best part about working in a high-end cabinet shop was doing what ever it takes to make things more efficient and easier, whether it was jigs or explanations, like Mr. Latone's paper example. I think the old timers know this in construction. I bet you are young.


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