# Minimum time to wait before waxing new VCT install



## iflooru

I'm installing a retail VCT job next week, ~5000sf, and the the build out plan is backed up to where appliances are coming in about 7 days after the vct is installed. However fixtures need to be installed prior to merchandise coming in. So tenant needs to fixture the floor about 3-4 days after install. I'm using Tarkett Expressions standard vct. The spec sheet says to wait a week to 10 days before the initial maintenance begins to allow for proper seating of the tile and after that bonding period to go ahead with a deep scrub, a seal and then wax 3-5 coats of wax. I am subcontracting out the waxing and burnishing to Jan-Pro, I'm in the Cleveland area, and they said 5 coats would be applied. Anyone local by the way? Anyway... the temperature will be maintained about 68 degrees with low humidity. Has anyone run into situations where they have waxed/burnished a floor a few days after install? Thanks, George


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## griz

24 hours, then clean, seal & wax.


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## Rob PA

depends alot of install..if its being rolled out..temp on install..

But i would still wait 3 days at least..any solution that gets under a loose edge might weaken joints...move heavy stuff accross them and they are shifting around

i have seen many installs have to be redone when the proper amount of setup time isnt allowed


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## RhodesHardwood

24 hours is usually enough time for the adhesive set up.


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## PrecisionFloors

Rob PA said:


> depends alot of install..if its being rolled out..temp on install..
> 
> But i would still wait 3 days at least..any solution that gets under a loose edge might weaken joints...move heavy stuff accross them and they are shifting around
> 
> i have seen many installs have to be redone when the proper amount of setup time isnt allowed


VCT adhesive is cured within 24 hours. If waxing affects the job after that, then something else is wrong, either it wasn't rolled or the adhesive was allowed to flash off too long prior to setting the tile.


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## rusty baker

On big stores, Walmart etc, you are lucky if you can wait 24 hours.


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## gideond

Why is no one using SpraySmart adhesive? Spray on product made by Azrock/Tarkett. It tacks in 5 minutes and the tile can be waxed in 2 hours. Great stuff and makes laying the tile lightning fast.


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## Rob PA

thats why i wait a few days

hardly any installer that i have seen up here rolls it out..or if they do roll it out it looks like a nascar race

i usually rather wait...you know, if the tile comes up, who the installer is going to blame


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## JazMan

I think a few of the answers saying VCT adhesive cures in 24 hours are thinking of a different type of flooring and adhesive. Perhaps sheet vinyl or solid vinyl tiles where a different type of adhesive is used.

VCT is installed with a pressure sensitive adhesive that is applied as long as the night before setting tiles. The adhesive needs to "set-up" and get tacky before laying the tiles. The adhesive stays tacky for ever. 

If the floor is smooth and the temps are right, it may lay flat in a day or so. Otherwise it can take much longer. If it's a commercial building and the floor is flat, it may be ok. Keep the temp as high as possible both before and after installation. Gravity, heat and traffic allows the tiles to make contact with the adhesive. Rolling does little good unless the adjoining tile is keeping a tile up. 

Jaz


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## PrecisionFloors

No offense Jaz, but do you know how many _millions_ of feet of VCT I have seen waxed within 12hrs of install? Like Rusty said check out a WalMart job one time. They are not in the minority either. Almost every large commercial job I have seen from supermarkets to schools are waxed damned near immediately. I will agree site conditions can play a huge role in how the floor lays.


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## Frankwhoa

Do what the glue manufacturer recommends or void any warranty


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## griz

PrecisionFloors said:


> No offense Jaz, but do you know how many _millions_ of feet of VCT I have seen waxed within 12hrs of install? Like Rusty said check out a WalMart job one time. They are not in the minority either. Almost every large commercial job I have seen from supermarkets to schools are waxed damned near immediately. I will agree site conditions can play a huge role in how the floor lays.


Yup, VCT installers start in the morning the janitor crew starts that evening, cleaning, sealing & waxing. Just how it goes. 12 hours if your lucky. Furniture the next day.


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## rusty baker

Frankwhoa said:


> Do what the glue manufacturer recommends or void any warranty


You won't get any large commercial jobs if you insist on following the recommmendations, so it won't matter anyway.


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## Frankwhoa

rusty baker said:


> You won't get any large commercial jobs if you insist on following the recommmendations, so it won't matter anyway.


Wow, no but what you will get is a headache from dealing with a failed installation, material reps that say its an install issue and they cant help, a call from your customers attorney, a call to your attorney, and possibly some trips to the court house to explain why you didnt follow the instructions! Oh did I mention the cost for all of this causes this job to be a LOSS since you have to pay to remove the faulty installatin, pay for the new material and prep, and pay for the new install! Who needs com jobs with those kind of numbers! JS (just saying)

Do it right or dont do it at all. It only takes one job to destroy your reputation and your bank account.


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## PrecisionFloors

Frankwhoa said:


> Wow, no but what you will get is a headache from dealing with a failed installation, material reps that say its an install issue and they cant help, a call from your customers attorney, a call to your attorney, and possibly some trips to the court house to explain why you didnt follow the instructions! Oh did I mention the cost for all of this causes this job to be a LOSS since you have to pay to remove the faulty installatin, pay for the new material and prep, and pay for the new install! Who needs com jobs with those kind of numbers! JS (just saying)
> 
> Do it right or dont do it at all. It only takes one job to destroy your reputation and your bank account.


You haven't done very much large commercial work have you. Nope - I see you haven't. :laughing:

There is the world on manufacturers warranty paperwork and there is the real world. They are light years apart most of the time on commercial work. That one job you were talking about ruining your reputation? Yeah its the one where you told the super "No we can't do that cause it will void the warranty". Yeah like he's gonna buy that when he's about to eat thousands of dollars in contractual fines for not coming in on schedule. Guess what is one of the last things done. Floors. Guess who has to make up for schedule back ups? Floor guys. Welcome to the real world.


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## gideond

You have to look at the thinspred you are using too. Some have an open time of 4-8 hours. Some have an open time of up to 48 hours. The former will take wax sooner regardless of what the recommendations may say.


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## covaltleveling

24 hours is normally adequate, at least in Southern California.


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## Frankwhoa

PrecisionFloors said:


> You haven't done very much large commercial work have you. Nope - I see you haven't. :laughing:
> 
> There is the world on manufacturers warranty paperwork and there is the real world. They are light years apart most of the time on commercial work. That one job you were talking about ruining your reputation? Yeah its the one where you told the super "No we can't do that cause it will void the warranty". Yeah like he's gonna buy that when he's about to eat thousands of dollars in contractual fines for not coming in on schedule. Guess what is one of the last things done. Floors. Guess who has to make up for schedule back ups? Floor guys. Welcome to the real world.


I've done plenty of large commercial work. My family has been doing this for over 60 years. Just thought I would clarify that up for you. 

The rest I am not going to repeat. I stick to my statement time and time again. Get a new super who is a professional and knows how to stick to a schedule so that they don't stick the liability for their incompetence on you. What kind of floor man/company would take that chance and then try to justify it? The recommendation is there so that the manufacturer doesnt have to eat the job, not to give you a rule to break sir! 

Its always the guys who do it 'there' way who's jobs I have to repair and/or testify as an expert witness against when their 'customer' calls me due to an install issue, repeat, INSTALL ISSUE. Try telling the judge that one, "but your honor, my super was behind schedule and I didnt have the balls to tell him he sucks so I had to cut corners to make up time, plus I've done it this way for years, millions of sf", and see if that helps you LOL. See you on the docket arty: and have a great weekend...


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## PrecisionFloors

Frankwhoa said:


> I've done plenty of large commercial work. My family has been doing this for over 60 years. Just thought I would clarify that up for you.
> 
> The rest I am not going to repeat. I stick to my statement time and time again. Get a new super who is a professional and knows how to stick to a schedule so that they don't stick the liability for their incompetence on you. What kind of floor man/company would take that chance and then try to justify it? The recommendation is there so that the manufacturer doesnt have to eat the job, not to give you a rule to break sir!
> 
> Its always the guys who do it 'there' way who's jobs I have to repair and/or testify as an expert witness against when their 'customer' calls me due to an install issue, repeat, INSTALL ISSUE. Try telling the judge that one, "but your honor, my super was behind schedule and I didnt have the balls to tell him he sucks so I had to cut corners to make up time, plus I've done it this way for years, millions of sf", and see if that helps you LOL. See you on the docket arty: and have a great weekend...


Before you start making insinuations do a search. I always advocate doing it right. There are a a few hundred posts for reference if you wanna look it up  I also know the real world (in reference to large scale commercial vct) is a different animal. I didn't say I agreed with it. Its the way it is. I stand by it. Sometimes the cost of lost business outweighs the risk of going against manufacturer's recommendations. Real pros in real conditions know what they can get away with and what they can't. Their are gray areas on all installs. If I make a decision to delve into that area I also make the decision to back it up.

Tell ya what. Give me a case in point of a failure due to waxing a vct installation too early. That was installed every other way properly except waxing it too early :whistling


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## iflooru

gideond said:


> You have to look at the thinspred you are using too. Some have an open time of 4-8 hours. Some have an open time of up to 48 hours. The former will take wax sooner regardless of what the recommendations may say.



I'll be using Henry 430 clear-pro vct adhesive which is their premium thin-spread over a light Ardex skim. Job starting tomorrow, Monday, and will be done Tuesday, I have the wax job scheduled for Wednesday starting early evening so it will end up being a good 24-hours. I have the heat set this weekend to 75. Thanks for all the replies, looks like I should be OK. 

I can't post links yet or I'd add link to the adhesive specs.

dub dub dub.wwhenry.com/content.aspx?id=418&View=Product&cID=95&pID=95


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