# Advice on starting a business while still an employee.



## Calisota (Apr 15, 2011)

Easy Gibson said:


> I
> Hi,* I work for a carpenter/general contractor full time*. On weekends I like to go out and hack around on my own. I started out doing simple stuff I was comfortable with like hanging doors, repairing drywall, etc. * I've been with my company for about 2 and a half years now and my comfort level is ever expanding.* I've started taking on bigger and bigger jobs for my night and weekend adventures. My last one I was asked to write up a proposal for the work. I did it, we signed it, I did the work to their satisfaction and I didn't lose my shirt. I was pretty pleased.


Trade experience alone won't cut it. You say you work for an established GC. What is your relationship with this person? Are you running jobs for this outfit yet? You earn their respect? Are you invaluable to their operation? If you respect your GC, have you considered approaching him and being honest about your future ambitions? If you don't have a good relationship that's a different story, but some of my greatest supporters we're they guys I worked my butt off for. Not most of them, but a good few. 

What kind of GC are you working for? Tell him you'd like the opportunity to learn more about the business including estimations and project management. Ask him how he would react if you brought some referrals to his company. Would he feel comfortable letting you take the lead on the job. Mentor you a bit on how he does things. That would also let you know a little about how he sees you.

This is only relevant if you work for someone you respect, and who respects you. It's interesting to me you don't mention anything about your current employer. I overlooked opportunities early in my life to utilize some great potential mentors I worked for. I regret that. They would have supported my interest to learn more and be a better asset to them in the mix. I'm one of the "cold turkey" crowd that never came in from the storm. Learning this stuff alone is a hard road, not well travelled by the meek or mildly curious.

Look around you first to see if the bridge your on actually goes somewhere.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

i am doing the same thing right now. i did some side work last couple years (nothing major, stuff for friends mostly). last year i came up with a name and what i wanted to do, but i didnt take is any further. this year i decided to be serious about it and got my license and insurance, business cards, working on a website, ect. 
i made a budget this past week so i can figure out what i should be charging and what i need to charge. right now my overhead is pretty low, once i leave my day job it will go up pretty big. if i start my pricing where is should be then it wont be a shock for anyone when it goes up, cause it wont go up. i figured an hourly rate that is pretty competitive for most companies around this area. 

the real challenge is finding enough work to keep myself busy 2000 hours a year.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Easy Gibson said:


> So, now to my actual question. Were any of you ever in the same situation where you started your own business while still employed full time by someone else?


I was in a similar situation, I was working but not full time when I began doing side work on my own. How much hands on experience do you have?


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Calisota said:


> This is only relevant if you work for someone you respect, and who respects you.


I wish I had one boss like you describe, I've hated every one of my employers. They all seemed like they just wanted to squeeze everything they could out of me, without having any regard for my future or my career no matter how hard I worked. I'm committed to never be like any of my former employers, and let people know that their career is important to me.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Wrong thinking.
> 
> If you have energy after the end of the day to go work another job, you don't work hard enough.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree with that one. I have seen guys put in 10 hour days then stop and do 4 or 5 hours of tile work on the way home for the extra income, sheer willpower. I like to say I work hard, but I don't have kids to feed so I think no matter how much I put into it, that guy pulling the 15 hour days for his kids always has one up on me.

Does your first boss ever pay enough? It's human nature to get as much as we can out of something.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

sitdwnandhngon said:


> I have to disagree with that one. I have seen guys put in 10 hour days then stop and do 4 or 5 hours of tile work on the way home for the extra income, sheer willpower. I like to say I work hard, but I don't have kids to feed so I think no matter how much I put into it, that guy pulling the 15 hour days for his kids always has one up on me.
> 
> Does your first boss ever pay enough? It's human nature to get as much as we can out of something.


Reason I say this is because hard work is rewarded. Maybe you don't get paid enough at that first job because you don't put the effort in to get paid more.

My guys work too hard to have enough energy to get a second job. They are compensated more than fairly for it.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Reason I say this is because hard work is rewarded. Maybe you don't get paid enough at that first job because you don't put the effort in to get paid more.


getting paid at work requires some negotiations and proof that your worth it. its more than just working hard. one can be good at their job and come home not exhausted every night. 
my boss is a nice enough guy and all but working hard wouldn't count for crap in his eyes. its all about the money. if i make him 150k that year and my payroll liability only comes out to 75k, then i make him good money. i make up a sheet showing him this every year based on the jobs i run. i think if i didnt do these extra things i wouldnt be making any more than i was 5 years ago, but it not me working harder and being tired when i get home, its me being smart enough to figure out what my boss is all about and how to get him to see it my way.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

sitdwnandhngon said:


> Does your first boss ever pay enough? It's human nature to get as much as we can out of something.


an old pirate saying:
Take what you can and give nothing back.


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## Acres (Feb 12, 2011)

> If you need to work another job to have enough income because your *first boss doesn't pay you enough*, you don't work hard enough.


Bosses usually never pay enough, and if they do its just enough. esp in trades. Working hard and pay rate are unrelated.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Acres said:


> Working hard and pay rate are unrelated.


That is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. Are you sure? Don't you think if my guys worked at half the pace they currently do, there pay would get cut in half?

Maybe there isn't too much money in lawn maintenance but I know I pay well to make sure a customers home is properly protected from the elements.

Edit to add: I usually pay starting labors with no idea what they are doing $12 an hour. (Some companies shinglers make that). I brought on a guy two weeks ago that that has no experience but he works so hard I pay him $15.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Reason I say this is because hard work is rewarded. Maybe you don't get paid enough at that first job because you don't put the effort in to get paid more.
> 
> My guys work too hard to have enough energy to get a second job. They are compensated more than fairly for it.


You're guys must not have been made of the same cloth as I was when I was a young buck. 8 hours of hard labor on the end of a shovel, or running 3/4" plywood still didn't stop me from having dreams & desire to more than just an employee. Today, at 47 years old, it's still pretty rare that I stop at 8 hours. Maybe you should hire some raw boned MO farm boys who really know how to do a days work & not a bunch of city pansys that are shot after a mere 8 hours work.:laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> That is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. Are you sure? Don't you think if my guys worked at half the pace they currently do, there pay would get cut in half?
> 
> Maybe there isn't too much money in lawn maintenance but I know I pay well to make sure a customers home is properly protected from the elements.
> 
> Edit to add: I usually pay starting labors with no idea what they are doing $12 an hour. (Some companies shinglers make that). I brought on a guy two weeks ago that that has no experience but he works so hard I pay him $15.


You don't understand because your young. Physical work has absolutelly ZERO correlation to wage, never has and never will. Roofers work harder than plumbers don't they? I bill out service work at $115 an hour, the total employee compensation package is around $80. I have a customer that is a foundry worker and works 10 hour days doing what most men wouldn't consider for 14 an hour after 10 years. 

Many office workers and college educated people will admittedly say they went to college so they don't have to work hard and make better pay. My wife is an accountant and makes unbelievable money. She will tell you flat out her job is easy. 

Now, as far as your $15 an hour guy what is his total compensation? Does he get paid holidays? How many weeks vacation? How good is his health insurance? Dental plan? Optical? Do you offer paid day care services? Company paid family membership to a health fitness club? Company car?

Seriously man, have you been living under a rock? This is the largest discussion in America............shrinking wages and a shrinking middle class, ring a bell? I can't believe this discussion is even happening. 

As far as side jobs. I made that comment because I thought I saw an opportunity for a joke so I went for it.

Truth is this is America and and every person has a right to do whatever they would like after they punch a clock. Case closed.

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

In fact, my brother-in-law is a master electrician and because of massive competition has worked about 3 - 4 days a week for the last 8 months. He is doing side work to make up the difference. I don't blame him, he has 5 mouths to feed.

A child hood friend is a foreman for a large union electrical contractor. The owners asked if his employees would work 9 hours and get pad for 8. It was for a job he could bid to keep his guys busy. I know the owner very well and he is a great great human being just trying to survive in this market after 20 years in the business. All his employees agreed and they made a team effort together, now they are all working but it's a pay cut nomatter how you look at it. In short, they are working harder for less money. This is happening everywhere and they agreed because they have all been treated well for there whole career with the company.

The case of working hard for higher pay just doesn't hold water. If that was the case I would work at a slaughter plant or as a migrant worker in a tomato field.

Mike


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I can't believe that I would hear from Mike that being lazy has a place in the trades. I am not talking about someone who went to college. I am talking about the trades. If hard work isn't rewarded in the trades, how come someone like myself who started in the trades at the same time as a buddy of mine has already started his own business while his buddy is floating around from company to company?

All I am simply saying is that if you have enough energy left after your regular work day to go work a part time job, you probably aren't putting in enough effort at your day job. The reason you need that part time job is to make more money. Perhaps if you worked harder, expanded your skills and your day job, your boss would pay you more that you wouldn't need a second job. Then again, I am also referring to the few amount of people who already don't live WAY over their means.


Right now the $15 dollar an hour guy doesn't have any company benefits. He has been around two weeks. With the amount of transients in roofing, I would be shooting myself in the foot to give someone company benefits that has been around any less than 6 months. He does get paid vacation though. Two months off in the winter collecting unemployment that I pay into :cheesygri


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## Acres (Feb 12, 2011)

> Perhaps if you worked harder, expanded your skills and your day job, your boss would pay you more that you wouldn't need a second job


.

Hard work is NEVER an absolute to guaranteed more money, never..Pay always comes from a second party. Your also slowly changing the dynamics of the discussion. Every job or business has a max pay and a max position (unless you have a monopoly on the world). Econ 101. Just because you can change yourself in a current position or skill set does not mean your getting more money at the current position or somewhere else. Your only going to make more if someone else sees value in what you do more, or you find another way to get more value. Working harder, more education,longevity, so on so on does not guarantee that..

Your speaking with guarantees, absolutes, when it's really probability, chance's. Always relying on a second party.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Okay I'm wrong.

Not working hard will get you further in life than working hard. I guess now I won't dedicate so much time to training, paperwork and running the job sites if that is what it will take for me to be successful.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

I think we are putting to much emphasis on physical labor equaling work.

Lets compare a 50 year old carpenter and an 18 year old laborer, both are considered very hard workers. Because the laborer has yet to develop any intricate skills his work has to be 95% physical. The wiser older carpenter though is doing 25% physical work, but is required to do all the thinking and handwork (still incredibly taxing through a day).

To say that either of them is being lazy is not fair. The trades can, and should work like a pyramid, where the new guys get the brunt of the hard physical work, but are relieved of thinking too hard or holding too much responsibility. Where the just opposite happens over time, you are held more accountable for what is accomplished, and in return you get to pick up the shovel less.

I'll tell you right now I only sweat today for about 1 hour for the 7 hours I worked. I spent the morning framing up a column under a porch to prepare it for a stucco match. A lot of up and down and saw cuts, but nothing I would consider physically taxing. It doesn't mean I didn't work hard though. I still managed to finish the whole thing up and get it brown coated. Every day I get up and go to work I consider myself to be a hard worker, whether it be for myself or working for someone and regardless of what the work is. I get my job done, don't slouch it and just feel lucky that some days aren't as back breaking as the other.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Bambam, don't put words in my mouth. At no time did I mention the word laziness. 

This is so simple. How tired someone is is so absolutely out of the ball park that it has no place in a conversation. This isn't Russia or China. Of course people work hard, but that has nothing to do with actual value. College is just evidence of this point because when YOU mention being tired I can assure you that wages have nothing to do with work or being tired, that's just ridiculous.
And total compensation is all part of it, many people make great wages and they come home all energized and ready to do what ever they want

Your arguing a point that really doesn't make sense. You work smart not hard. That's pretty much the basis of everything in life and what your employee wants to do after he punches out has nothing to do with you unless it causes him to not perform his job in which you pay him.

If that's not proof enough for you than consider how you bid as a business owner, this should be obvious to you. Are jobs tight? Are margins thin? OK, now what did a roofer make 15 years ago? What does a roofer make today? Hmmmmm, what has increased in price in that time? Milk? Gas? Groceries? Car prices? 

OK, now considered this. 15 years ago my wife made about 40,000 a year and now she make 100. Does she work harder? No she works less. Does a roofer have to work harder in today's economy and do they get paid less? If your answer is no than there is nothing I can do to help you understand this.

All of us should be getting paid more than we are. Again, work has no correlation to wages. Wages in construction have gone down. 

But again, it's not your place to determine who should be tired and who should not. That simple has nothing to do with it. I know a mason who is in his late 60's that runs 5k races every single week. He works his tail off, is in better shape than most 20 year olds, and has energy to burn. Are you saying he doesn't work hard because he isn't tired.:laughing:

Come on now bam, your smarter than that.

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Oh, and for the record; I don't work near as hard as I did when I was an employee. I may work longer hours but certainly not harder. I make a hell of a lot more money, work less, and enjoy myself as a business owner. I think I work harder mentally but that's a different discussion.

Mike


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Okay maybe it's just me but if my guys aren't tired after a full days work and have enough energy to go to another job, they aren't working hard enough.

I used to fall asleep within two hours of getting home when I was an employee.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Ha! GOTCHA............

So you just said you USED to fall asleep but don't anymore? OK, now that's just plain funny. So basically you work less hard?

You better step it up a notch you lazy bastid. :laughing:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I guess we are misunderstanding eachother. There are people who do no physical work that work hard. However, if your JOB is to do physical work and you have energy to still have a second job, maybe you aren't working that hard after all.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I just think your employees should eat more vegetables. I think you should mandate vegetarian diets for your crew and make sure they get to bed at a respectable hour.:laughing:


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## Diablo View (Apr 10, 2011)

Sounds like your guys are over worked or winers.
Are they suppose to be too tired to cut the grass, do a project for the wife, repair things at home, go for a run or work out at the gym?
If they have enough energy to do all of the above then they surely could go hang a door or paint a bedroom after work right.

If they dont have enough energy to do the simple activites in life that either need to be done at home or that keep them fit and happy.
They are over worked or a winer.
Yeah some days you are beat after work but if it is every single day you have some serious issues.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I have to start out by saying thanks again for all of your input. It really means a lot.


Calisota, it's been a conscious decision to say very little about my boss as well as to remain fairly anonymous on here. Reason being, right now I represent someone else's name and business. I don't want their name to come up in a google result attached to some stupid comment I've made. That wouldn't be fair. If I go pro on my own in the next year, I'll post my name and address and invite you all over for burgers next Memorial Day. At this stage though, again, I don't think it would be fair to a guy I respect very much and work very hard for to be yacking on the internet with his name spilling all over.
As far as what you said though, he's been such a help to me in terms of being transparent with his business practices, being completely open about what he charges people, how to not take a loss, how to be production minded, with everything. Thing is though, he's on the verge of retiring. He's been in for 30 years. I can feel it. If he wants to set it up so his employees take over his business when he's gone, great. I'm in. If he wants to shut down the operation though, I want to be ready for that. That's really all I'm trying to do, just not get caught with my pants down.

Now, before I hit the hay after working a 10-hour Saturday on a holiday weekend, I would like to quickly say what's up to BamBam.
Hey man, you seem like a pretty lighthearted guy with a good sense of humor, and I completely feel where you're coming from by suggesting that hard work brings its own reward. It's completely true that if you work hard, good things will usually come your way.
The situation I'm in now though is one where I am more than adequately compensated for the hard work I do every day. My boss pays me a damn fine wage and I work hard for him to earn it. However, I can't expect him to pay me his salary, and his salary is what I want. So until I start my own business and start making boss money, I will bust my ass for the 8 hours I am an employee, grab a protein shake, take a few moments in my car to collect myself, then go do what I've gotta do to make a little something for myself, sometimes until well after dark, all with a smile on my face.
Willpower, baby, willpower.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

It's alright to have your own gig while being employed, as long as you are giving your full time employer 100%, and your side jobs are not related to your current employers clients. 

If the side jobs go well, eventually you are going to have to make a decision on whom you want to commit to. It sounds as if you are coming pretty close to that point. It wouldn't hurt to have a heart to heart talk with your current employer as they might be able to come up with something that would behoove both you and the company.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

flashheatingand said:


> It's alright to have your own gig while being employed, as long as you are giving your full time employer 100%, and your side jobs are not related to your current employers clients.
> 
> If the side jobs go well, eventually you are going to have to make a decision on whom you want to commit to. It sounds as if you are coming pretty close to that point. It wouldn't hurt to have a heart to heart talk with your current employer as they might be able to come up with something that would behoove both you and the company.


That's a good point, my past employer gave me a ton of work. We had a very good relationship though. 

Mike


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## Calisota (Apr 15, 2011)

Easy G,

It's great when the OP actually comes back to what seems to be a meaningful thread to them. You can see how the focus migrates :whistling

Anyhow, I agree with your sentiment completely about Naming Names. No such suggestion on my part. I don't need you or anyone to "come out of the shadows" to legitimize themselves. I can tell by the words on the page the measure of who's doing the typing. I was just looking for a more descriptive back-story about your current situation and relationship. The extra info you just shared speaks volumes, and will pull some specific feedback out of the experience that views content here on CT.

Your current boss sounds decent, supportive, and inclusive. Your playing everything right. Stay in the mix to carry on if he's ready to hang it up. He has a client history and future referrals that will trail on after he goes fishin' for good. Someone should be the one to get those referrals while they last. If there are others on the company payroll in the same boat as you, you'll have to sense out any pecking order of kinship or seniority. If there are others in the mix, do you have a great relationship to partner with them after he sets sail? 

Nothing to gain from burning a perfectly good bridge while your on it. You'll need to balance the excess (size) of side jobs, and perhaps turn gigs down if your not willing to bring them to your current GC as a referral. In my experience, the scale will never balance, one side will outweigh the other. Be ready for when it tips, you'll be carrying the heavy end from that point on. Sounds like you might be ready.

Nice thing about CT, it's on 24/7, weekends and holidays.:thumbsup:


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

As a sole proprietor, I would love to find a younger guy (25-35) to whom I could sell the business in ten years. The both of us could grow this m.f. and, the Flash way does have wheels...enough about me. Could you connect with the current boss? You know, this may be a good time to ask your boss to step up. I am not talking about money, it's about future partnership.

You mentioned that you have done several jobs on the side, I would like to be aware of the fact.... You and the current employer are square aren't you?


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## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

Easy Gibson said:


> I have to start out by saying thanks again for all of your input. It really means a lot.
> 
> 
> Calisota, it's been a conscious decision to say very little about my boss as well as to remain fairly anonymous on here. Reason being, right now I represent someone else's name and business. I don't want their name to come up in a google result attached to some stupid comment I've made. That wouldn't be fair. If I go pro on my own in the next year, I'll post my name and address and invite you all over for burgers next Memorial Day. At this stage though, again, I don't think it would be fair to a guy I respect very much and work very hard for to be yacking on the internet with his name spilling all over.
> ...


Why not offer to buy the business from your boss? Much easier to purchase an established and successful business than starting from scratch. Your boss sounds like someone that would be willing to mentor you in being to boss and set you up well for success.


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## SidingSweetie (May 29, 2011)

I have seen lots of guys learn the trade from our business and defect.....and I've seen about 95% of them fail, unfortunately. I would be damned sure that I had the money, and the experience before I left my employer, in addition to full knowledge of the entire business, from the janitor to the CEO The guys that failed didn't have one or any of those. Plus, most of them burned bridges by trying to snipe customers away from our business behind our backs. Don't do that. ;-) You owe your current employer at the very least, that respect. People talk, and if a bigger business has it out from you at the beginning...you're pretty much sunk. But, if you have the skills, finances, and a true knowledge of the entire business, go for it in a respectful manner. We've literally had guys call in one morning and say 'I'm not coming back, I've lined up my own jobs. (basically) Bye, suckers!'........then realize what they've gotten into when their two jobs, and money runs out. Then they come back to us.....no, sorry, honey. With that one action they ruined any chance of a career with us, and any other like-minded business in our local area. That being said, if you're confident it's what you want to do, and find it do-able, best of luck!


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Diablo View said:


> Sounds like your guys are over worked or winers.
> Are they suppose to be too tired to cut the grass, do a project for the wife, repair things at home, go for a run or work out at the gym?
> If they have enough energy to do all of the above then they surely could go hang a door or paint a bedroom after work right.
> 
> ...


This is funny. It is like talking to a brick wall with some of you guys. One thing they definitely don't do is whine. They show up, work hard and go home and do whatever they have to do. I am not talking about something as simple as hanging a bedroom door. I am talking about hard physical labor like ROOFING. If you can do that for 10 hours a day, then go and do it from 5:30 to dark at the same pace you did it for the company, you are not putting enough effort into your regular steady paying job. I believe it is safe to assume you have never been a roofer so maybe that is where the misunderstanding is.

My WHOLE POINT is that if you work at your day job and aren't making enough money to have that be your only income, then perhaps you should look at how much effort your are putting in! None of my guys need a second job because of the effort they put in.



Easy Gibson said:


> Now, before I hit the hay after working a 10-hour Saturday on a holiday weekend, I would like to quickly say what's up to BamBam.
> Hey man, you seem like a pretty lighthearted guy with a good sense of humor, and I completely feel where you're coming from by suggesting that hard work brings its own reward. It's completely true that if you work hard, good things will usually come your way.
> The situation I'm in now though is one where I am more than adequately compensated for the hard work I do every day. My boss pays me a damn fine wage and I work hard for him to earn it. However, I can't expect him to pay me his salary, and his salary is what I want. So until I start my own business and start making boss money, I will bust my ass for the 8 hours I am an employee, grab a protein shake, take a few moments in my car to collect myself, then go do what I've gotta do to make a little something for myself, sometimes until well after dark, all with a smile on my face.
> Willpower, baby, willpower.


Your situation is different. I have done a lot of various jobs working with other guys and the only thing that has been more physically demanding than roofing is masonry. You are looking to start your own business and that is awesome and I wish you the best. 

In a similar situation to SidingSweetie, for the previous company I worked for we had a guy do the same thing. He had three side jobs lined up, middle of summer. He decided he didn't need to work anymore when he didn't show two days in a row because he was busy with his side jobs he was let go. Now, we didn't hear from again until we got a letter that he was trying to draw unemployment due to him being "laid off". Make sure you can balance the two.

Once again, I will beat the dead horse for the last time and this isn't directed to Easy Gibson. If you need a second job to help pay your bills, take a look at the effort you put into your first job before you decide to do that.

Thee End :clap:


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I have done a lot of various jobs working with other guys and the only thing that has been more physically demanding than roofing is masonry.


Not on brick laying day :clap: (assuming the laborer isn't slacking)

Fast forward a week to 12" block day though, ugh.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

That's how I started on my own, for a few months worked on weekends, small jobs I would pick up. It was good for the different experience as in dealing with customer's and doing business, as well as getting me excited about working on my own.

My biggest mistake was not saving up enough money before doing it full time. First winter and I was scrambling a bit. If you are going to do it I would say make a goal of when you want to do it full time, save as much money as possible in that time,and line up as much work as possible before you quit. 

I think it's definitely worth the extra work, if you really do want to be your own boss:thumbup:


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## peteypablo (Apr 30, 2011)

That you pay an individual for 8 hours worth of work does not entitle you to 24 hours worth of their energy.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

I see where Bam Bam is coming from. He pays a decent wage and expects 100% effort. I am not a roofer, but, based on what I understand, if you give 100%, you won't have enough in the tank for afterhour gigs.


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## SidingSweetie (May 29, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, does anyone make their employees or has anyone, as an employee, signed a 'non-compete clause/contract'? We require that of our employees, specifically because we have been burned by crooked employees. Everything from stealing product to do jobs on the side. :-/, to literally approaching customers and offering to do the job for less, if they cancel the contract with us.....shady, shady behavior. It's not like we're suing ’defectors’, it's more of a warning. We also live in a small town, though. 

My thoughts on the work/money balance. I wish it was like that, Bam....then the people who really bust their asses everyday, every weekend and holidays......the migrant workers, the Mexican landscapers or roofers (legals), and all the other guys who spend their summer's sweating outside from 7am until daylight burns out......those guys would be able to, at the very basic level, be able afford insurance and put food on the table 12 months out of the year. Unfortunately, this will never happen. Most of these positions are considered 'blue-collar, unskilled labor' and in our society, they are't worth much, hell, basketball players get paid more for one game than these other guys make in 2-3 years! That's wrong, but true. Plus, as a business owner, it's just not possible (unless your're a BIG business) to pay your guys what you want. Even $12-$15/hour, while good, doesn't support a family of 3-4-5, if they aren't a 2 income family. So, do we have fabulous, hard-working guys? Hell, yeah we do....do we give them raises and perks? Of course....can we neccesarily afford to pay them what we wish? Nope. We, too, are in the $12-$20 range, we even take our guys/spouses on small paid vaca’s and other nice perks. We all do the best we can to show our employees appreciation, but it's hard when business isn't always steady. Really, we expect hard work, and if we don't get it, you're out. But, we don't expect our guys to be so exhausted that they can't have a life, play with their kids, help out around the house or what not, when the day is done. Just my two cents. ;-) Hope everyone enjoyed a nice break and Memorial Day weekend, because it starts all over tomorrow!


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I have recently looked into the do not complete clause, and will probably implement it in the future. While it has not been a problem for me, I have seen the affect on others.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i know how you feel you teach a guy how to do your job then he quits,good thing most of the stuff we teach is wrong:thumbup:


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

The last place I worked I signed something like that and it actually stated that any methods or practices developed or discovered by me while there were the property of the company.

So if I discovered this new super fast way to do whatever, I couldn't use it outside of working for them.


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