# Question about work in the union



## woodworker1 (Jan 5, 2013)

I recently applied to my local carpenters union and got a call about going to work in a custom millwork plant, with mostly CNC run equipment. I work in a shop environment right now and don't like it which is why I'm trying to get into carpentry. I want to work in construction out in the field. 

If I pass on this job, will the union drop me in the ranks? I am a very high ranking applicant with a 100% on the entrance test.

The union tells me that construction jobs will not be getting started until the spring, which is fine with me I can wait. What should I tell my union?

Thanks..


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## alboston (Feb 22, 2007)

I could be wrong but I don't think there are too many Union carpenters here. Not sure how much advice you are going to get.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

i know locally going union is pretty much gonna kill having a paycheque coming in.. they have about a 50% employment rate here..

the guys that i know who are union have to travel a ton for work, or are working non union jobs


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm a union carpenter in nj.


I only pay my dues and go to school. It's my back up plan.

I'm not on the out of work list so I don't get calls.

If you get to the top of the list and get a call you you can deny the first two jobs they call you for, if you don't take the third job they call u for u go back on the bottom of the list.

We can't even do any millwork, that's a seperate union by me and those CNC jobs are very rare.

I stopped with the union due to the instability with the work. You work for a month and are off for 6. Or you become a company guy for a contractor and they don't want to pay your raise.


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## woodworker1 (Jan 5, 2013)

Well that's disappointing. Wouldn't they want to keep me working in order to keep me moving to get my apprentice hours in? 

If your in the union and not working, are you able to find other employment in the mean time non-union related? I'm a machinist now but looking to get out of the business and into carpentry so I'm using that as my backup plan.


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

Union is a joke in my area. Pay your dues to say you are in the union.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

woodworker1 said:


> Well that's disappointing. Wouldn't they want to keep me working in order to keep me moving to get my apprentice hours in?
> 
> If your in the union and not working, are you able to find other employment in the mean time non-union related? I'm a machinist now but looking to get out of the business and into carpentry so I'm using that as my backup plan.


Well the first 2-3 years you work alot.

Your basically cheap labor to them.

I was doing journeyman type work my first year. Your just cheap labor to these contractors.

Once you get to the end of your apprenticeship work slows down since your making good money.

My advice is work your butt off, keep you mouth shut, Be on time and if you know your stuff a company will pick you up. Thats what happend to me. A company with lots of work wanted to make me a company man. I think the reason they had alot of work is because the under bid the jobs. So they wouldnt pay my raises and had crap for tools. I walked. 

If there not giving you work you have to do what you have to do to feed the family and pay the bills.


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## mastersplinter (Nov 23, 2012)

have a few friends in the unions in philadelphia. one is a steel worker, he works 50+ hrs a week for the last 2 years and makes close to 100K a year. the other is a union electrician, who is laid off 9 months of the year. 

around here the union are sheisty for larger commercial jobs and will do things like slash tires, threaten family members/you, your property, sit out in the parking lot taking note of every non union worker's license plate, etc. A lot of intimidation tactics. 

What ive come to understand about union carpenters is this.. they arn't carpenters, they are buddies of somebodys friends ,uncles, stepdaughters, dogsitter; and have no skills that warrant the 60+ per hour they get. Hence why they are out of work so much. The ones that are good, hard working, intelligent people with more then one skill work fully time.

I scored 2nd highest out of 200 people in the HVAC union and wasnt accepted. Its politics around here, _who_ you know, not _what_.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

Im a union carpenter my father was a union carpenter. I own a union company.

I would never hire someone out of the hall imo its the bottom of the barrel, just a bunch of slugs. 

I would call the apprenticeship school to get a recomendation for a good apprentice that about it.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

mastersplinter said:


> What ive come to understand about union carpenters is this.. they arn't carpenters, they are buddies of somebodys friends ,uncles, stepdaughters, dogsitter; and have no skills that warrant the 60+ per hour they get. Hence why they are out of work so much. The ones that are good, hard working, intelligent people with more then one skill work fully time.


When i got in everyone asked how i got in. I just told them i took the tests, passed them and got in.

I was never layed of a job. They just ended.

I was always one of the last guys on a job.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

detroit687 said:


> Im a union carpenter my father was a union carpenter. I own a union company.
> 
> I would never hire someone out of the hall imo its the bottom of the barrel, just a bunch of slugs.
> 
> I would call the apprenticeship school to get a recomendation for a good apprentice that about it.


So all of your guys are union labors or carpenters . So it's commercial work you do .


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## woodworker1 (Jan 5, 2013)

If I were to work at this company doing cabinet work for a few months and wanted to switch and get into construction in the spring, is this possible? Is it hard to switch jobs while in the union?


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

woodworker1 said:


> If I were to work at this company doing cabinet work for a few months and wanted to switch and get into construction in the spring, is this possible? Is it hard to switch jobs while in the union?


You should call your business agent at your union to find out these answers.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

skillman said:


> So all of your guys are union labors or carpenters . So it's commercial work you do .


Commercial carpenters we specailize in doors and hardware. I started of in metal studs and drywall. 

Sure there are a few rotten apples out there but most guys deserve there pay. Its not allot of money. I think its really funny that the non union guys can dog the union guys when in reallity most non union carpenters are making 20 bucks an hour or less and half of them right now are working for 10 bucks an hour for cash because they have no soc security number.

Organized labor equals better pay, trade schools, safety

All my guys have there osha 30 journeymans card ingersol rand cert and drug testing

And they show up with decent trucks and tools because they make a lower middle class income


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

woodworker1 said:


> I recently applied to my local carpenters union and got a call about going to work in a custom millwork plant, with mostly CNC run equipment. I work in a shop environment right now and don't like it which is why I'm trying to get into carpentry. I want to work in construction out in the field.
> 
> If I pass on this job, will the union drop me in the ranks? I am a very high ranking applicant with a 100% on the entrance test.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how it is where you are at, but here if you pass on a job they'll let you two times. After that you go to the end of the list. If you don't want a job, why are you on the list?


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## woodworker1 (Jan 5, 2013)

BKFranks said:


> I'm not sure how it is where you are at, but here if you pass on a job they'll let you two times. After that you go to the end of the list. If you don't want a job, why are you on the list?


I do want a job but this particular job they called me for is in a cnc cabinet shop, not much different from what I do now and im looking for a construction position not a shop job.

If I were to take this job I want to know how easy I will be able to find something else in spring if things pick up. Or would they forget about me and find the next apprentice in line.


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## neill (Sep 29, 2011)

you need to talk with your union. it's different hall to hall. some halls even allow and encourage you to go out and find work for yourself, while others focus on the list. afaik though, most halls give you two shots then you're at the bottom of the list.


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## woodworker1 (Jan 5, 2013)

neill said:


> you need to talk with your union. it's different hall to hall. some halls even allow and encourage you to go out and find work for yourself, while others focus on the list. afaik though, most halls give you two shots then you're at the bottom of the list.


Great, thanks for the advice. 

As I understand apprenticeships combine many different areas of carpentry so starting with some cabinet experience may be a good thing.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Woodworker did u get my pm


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## woodworker1 (Jan 5, 2013)

Rich D. said:


> Woodworker did u get my pm


I got your first PM but I dont think its letting me send messages.


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