# Washer vibration



## Mikeinboston (May 23, 2013)

Ok this is driving my parents nuts. Washer on the second floor, the vibration is felt and heard in the kitchen below. They do not want to move it to the basement, we have put rubber mats, we had a carpenter build a box and we placed it on that with rubber mats, we have extended the legs on the machines, then another carpenter that my father works with came and took a look and he is still unsure. Hopefully one of you hold the solution to this problem! The photo with the kitchen in view, the top of the picture you can see through the banisters the doorway into the bathroom that the washer and dryer are in. Thanks everyone!!!


----------



## ObuckiO (Feb 19, 2014)

I'm just taking a stab at a fix, although I'd imagine the deck underneath wouldn't help at all...If not, make it worse. 
Anyhow, you might try something with more cushion. Maybe some cork board under feet or foam of some sort. 
I personally think they are in a bad place to begin with and would also try and see if the washer is faulty.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Did it always have this issue?


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Add as much mass as possible to the stand (500 lbs?) and place the washer on top of vibration isolation pads on top of that. There will still be some vibration.


----------



## Joe thehandyman (Jul 2, 2010)

Is the floor "bouncy"?
Is the washer touching any wall?
I would think removing the wooden base and lowering the legs would help.
Is it on rubber pads made for a washer?

You can also try vibration isolation pads.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

1) Make sure the shipping retainers were removed
2) Make sure it is not touching anything besides the floor
3) Make sure it's level
4) Have a service call to make sure it's balancing correctly. Some washers won't balance on all size of loads.
5) The more flex in whatever it's on, the more vibration you'll get. I can't tell for sure, but it looks like it's in an alcove / closet type of area. If that's the case, try putting a double layer or 3/4" Advantech across the entire floor, and screw it down about every 6 inches. Besides stiffening the floor, this will help pick up some of the wall mass to help keep the vibration down.

6) If that doesn't work, go with Bob's 500 lb slab plan.


----------



## Mikeinboston (May 23, 2013)

Its always had this issue since we moved in, back in 2007...this is now the 3rd washer installed and still the same problem =/ ...i know its been leveled, we have had sears out here to look at it..but ill tell them about these ideas and see what we comes from it...thank you all for your time!


----------



## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

I had issues with my front load too. Granted mines on a concrete slab.... Found it would shake a little no matter what I did until I retracted one foot to throw it out of level and then push a shim under it until it stopped. Seemed to work alright for me.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Mikeinboston said:


> Its always had this issue since we moved in, back in 2007...this is now the 3rd washer installed and still the same problem =/ ...i know its been leveled, we have had sears out here to look at it..but ill tell them about these ideas and see what we comes from it...thank you all for your time!


Good luck with it, it looks like the obvious has been already covered a couple of times:sad:


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

mbryan said:


> I had issues with my front load too. Granted mines on a concrete slab.... Found it would shake a little no matter what I did until I retracted one foot to throw it out of level and then push a shim under it until it stopped. Seemed to work alright for me.


I'm going to file that one away, good thinking:thumbsup: I assume I could get there by retracting one, and then screwing back down, but I don't think that's practical.


----------



## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

hdavis said:


> I'm going to file that one away, good thinking:thumbsup: I assume I could get there by retracting one, and then screwing back down, but I don't think that's practical.


But then you have the adjust the one in the back corner...


----------



## Frank Castle (Dec 27, 2011)

When we build boxes around sub-woofers to stop vibration up on the stages, we fill the box with sand.

¾" ply
6" sand
¾" ply
½" durock (optional if we have room)

Might work for you to fill that box with sand.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

My first thought was to do what CARPSFO said and do a huge mass of conc. as a platform, but Frank Castles sand filled box sounds even better. The sand will add the needed mass, & act as a damper at the same time.

Joe


----------



## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Railman said:


> My first thought was to do what CARPSFO said and do a huge mass of conc. as a platform, but Frank Castles sand filled box sounds even better. The sand will add the needed mass, & act as a damper at the same time.
> 
> Joe


And the sand could be taken out... 500#s of concrete... not so much.


----------



## Mikeinboston (May 23, 2013)

Im gunna throw these ideas at my dad and will update you guys on how everything works out..thanks again!


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

RobertCDF said:


> And the sand could be taken out... 500#s of concrete... not so much.


Well that depends. It wouldn't have to be done as one piece. I was originally thinking 4 x 8 x 16 solid conc block in a box would work well, but as I said above, the sand box looks like a winner to me. The only thing I might add, is to isolate the sand box from the existing floor with maybe a foam or similar.
Joe


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Sandbox won't do much, nor will vibration reducing pads. The problem is the resonate frequency of the structure. Unless you can re-enforce the floor by sistering up some joists I think all efforts are in vein. If it's that big of an issue switch to a top load.


----------



## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Just my thoughts - 

The sandbox idea sounds like a good one. Maybe even layer some rubber or cork every 2-3" to help isolate vibration.

HOWEVER - It doesn't matter what you do (short of an extensive/expensive sound-proofing), you're still going to hear and feel the washer because of where it's placed. It's right over your head. No amount of anything will make it quiet. IMO, either move it or get used to it.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Sandbox won't do much, nor will vibration reducing pads. The problem is the resonate frequency of the structure. Unless you can re-enforce the floor by sistering up some joists I think all efforts are in vein. If it's that big of an issue switch to a top load.


Anything that reduces the floor movement will decrease the resulting SPL. Adding a mass, stiffening the floor system through beefing up the top and / or bottom membranes, isolating the washer from the floor, building an enclosure that ties that floor into the joists above...

I personally don't know that floor's resonant frequency or any of the related structural elements.


----------



## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Pour a 4" slab


----------



## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

If you've gone through 3 washers and a whole bunch of fixes I'd say the problem is in the house framing more than anything.


----------



## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

Suspend it from several points in the ceiling framing with nylon rope...


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Buy a Speed Queen top loader.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

EricBrancard said:


> Buy a Speed Queen top loader.


Exactly.

Or remove the transportation bolt that locks down the suspension. :laughing:


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I'll point out that a washer on a 1800 RPM spin cycle is putting out a 30 Hz vibration. That will resonate with a room dimension of roughly 1080/2*30= 18', which is within common room dimensions. Resonant frequencies of an actual room are more complicated, the equation for calculating them is shown under "Closed Rectangular Box here":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_resonance 

Actual room acoustics are complicated enough they have to be measured, but clapping your hands or clicking a clicker can tell you a lot if you have good ears.

Floor system resonant frequencies aren't as easy to calculate - I'd only trust a modeling program or field measurements, but here's a ball park calculation:

"
For design purposes, the natural floor frequency (fn in Hz) can be estimated using a simple formula,

fn (Hz) =18 D(mm)

where D is the total deflection of the floor structure due to the weight supported by all its members (joists, girders and columns). For example, if the floor deflects 9 mm, the natural frequency is 6 Hz. To get a natural frequency of 9 Hz, the floor must deflect only 4 mm, which is practically impossible for floors supported on very long members to achieve. (See References 2 – 4 for methods of calculating natural frequency and floor acceleration.)
"
From: http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ctu-sc/ctu_sc_n22

Floor systems that would resonate with the 20-30 Hz dryer vibration would have to have deflections from their material weight in the 1-2 mm range, which matches up with my not running into any that I know of.

There's the mechanical / acoustical side. The general strategy pretty much has to be decreasing the vibration induced deflection of the floor system at the washer. There are very few general ways that can be done. One of the problems with deflection is simply that the feet usually don't sit right on top of floor joists, so there is a lot of deflection of the floor just from that. That's one of the reasons screwing a couple of sheets of Advantec down, and screwing it all into the joists can make a significant improvement sometimes. Also, the more the floor deflects, the worse the washer balancing mechanism works, usually. A concrete slab has always been my "when all else fails" approach, but I'll try a sand box and see how it does next time.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

hdavis said:


> I'll point out that a washer on a 1800 RPM spin cycle is putting out a 30 Hz vibration. That will resonate with a room dimension of roughly 1080/2*30= 18', which is within common room dimensions. Resonant frequencies of an actual room are more complicated, the equation for calculating them is shown under "Closed Rectangular Box here":
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_resonance
> 
> ...


The problem is the nature of the laundry load will cause it to emit a vast range of frequencies, hence why this is a common problem.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

It seems to me that building the platform near FULL WIDTH of the room would help with floor deflection dramatically, make reaching the dryer easier at the same time, & make for much better asthetics. Going full width + sand would also add more mass, resulting in more wave absorption.

As far as why adding mass is beneficial, just think in terms of the washer oscillating the floor. The heavier the base, the harder it will be to accelerate it to make it oscillate. It's the same principal as why heavier cars ride smoother when you hit a bump. The heavy car analogy is more complicated than that, as it's actually the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight, but it makes it easier to visualize. 

The main floor oscillation causes the sound wave, the added mass & bigger platform, and isolation reduces the oscillation.


Add mass, & isolate platform from main floor as much as possible.


----------



## NJGC (Apr 5, 2014)

The problem IMO is a less than adequate floor system, probably junk TGI's. I'd replace the front loaders with a top loader and you shouldn't have as much issue.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> The problem is the nature of the laundry load will cause it to emit a vast range of frequencies, hence why this is a common problem.


Agreed. I was going more to the point that you're not likely to have a big fundamental frequency resonance issue with the framing except for spin up and spin down, but you can reasonably have one with room dimensions. Secondaries and tertiaries of the fundamental will still happen with decreasing amplitude.

This discussion has gotten be rethinking some of the things I do in renos - I'm thinking about making bridging or blocking in these areas standard.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

hdavis said:


> Agreed. I was going more to the point that you're not likely to have a big fundamental frequency resonance issue with the framing except for spin up and spin down, but you can reasonably have one with room dimensions. Secondaries and tertiaries of the fundamental will still happen with decreasing amplitude.
> 
> This discussion has gotten be rethinking some of the things I do in renos - I'm thinking about making bridging or blocking in these areas standard.


It's an inherit problem with front load machines, they are infinitely better than to loaders because they use less water and ring more water out by spinning so dang fast....but they vibrate.

Commercial machines don't use an internal suspension and have to be anchored in concrete or steel. Free standing residential machines use a suspension system that doesn't work all that well.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> It's an inherit problem with front load machines, they are infinitely better than to loaders because they use less water and ring more water out by spinning so dang fast....but they vibrate.
> 
> Commercial machines don't use an internal suspension and have to be anchored in concrete or steel. Free standing residential machines use a suspension system that doesn't work all that well.


We don't have water restrictions here - in Texas and other places, having a front loader can be a very good thing. Around here, it tends to be a space issue in remodels, plus they're a lot nicer in other ways. I've seen installations here that the washer rocking motion is perpendicular to the joists, so a single joist was taking a lot of the motion at any given instant.


----------



## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

EricBrancard said:


> Buy a Speed Queen top loader.


The best washer ever made, no vibration at all


----------



## Eaglei (Aug 1, 2012)

Same problem here , they spin so fast and vibrate so much sounds like a freight train . I tried several things mentioned here but none worked that good . Fast forward , had spray foam being done in basement so i made a box out of 2'' rigid foam and sprayed the inside void with 6'' of foam . Then I covered with rubber floor mats used in gyms to keep it all together . I can still here it but almost no vibration . Also on second floor above my kitchen .


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

rrk said:


> The best washer ever made, no vibration at all


Not much to look at, but they will outlast everything out there. Rock solid.


----------

