# Old cracked plaster ceiling, skim coated now peeling



## maineuropa (Sep 27, 2008)

*Old House blues*

Yes, for some reason I can built new for anyone and everyone, but I have been suffering with horsehair plaster, single glazed sash and first floor plumbing for the last 40 years...haven't seen a KD 2x6 in years unless I have installed it, ripped down to 4 1/8" or whatever... always on a first name basis with the nearest rough sawn pine mill for sheathing...heating oil companies' kids all have a college education because of me.
Discovered my well after 2 years: nice tile lined with a great submersible pump...3 feet from the original only bathroom in the house in the garden with the well cover buried because it was in the garden; about 35 feet from the septic holding tank. I can just see the old yankee plumber explaining the wisdom to the HO then: ..."these copper pipes are some expensive..."
When I remodeled that bathroom last year(total gut, new re-levelled sleepers with advantech, re-levelled ceiling, 3 mold sources removed) the joists were representative of more inexpensive framing back then...rough sawn logs more than beams. These pine framers do sag regardless of size...especially when used as floor joists over dirt crawl as they are in the barn connector area.


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## Red Adobe (Jul 26, 2008)

Most of my home is old plaster, I had the same thing when the house still had flatroof and it was a minor leak that would just moisten the plaster and make lath swell. so Id make sure after a rain you dont have a moisture problem.

If you have insulation above the ceiling in ? Id be inclined to not rip it out if at all possible........asbestos was in about everything back then insulation and plaster both. 
I'd try to prep and use a conversion primer then texture and paint.

I had no insulation and had k&T so I had to tear it down and it was a friggin mess and a real pita (they built stuff to stay back then lol) I had a guy with a pump up sprayer misting constantly for dust control and resperators and it was still BAD. then we had to batten and shim to get straight enuff for rock

If you rock over make some inspection holes and find all the joists and I'd use 3" screws and Glue.


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## amerolaplaster (Oct 15, 2010)

Hello my name is Andrew Merola.....I have a plastering business in the Greater Pittsburgh area. Taking a glance at your pics you have posted....I use a product called guards, although there are various other brands on the market. Scrape all the loose paint and apply (paint) a coat of guards to the whole ceiling. I usually wait about 24 hours to let the product cure. Apply a coat or two using durabond and it should take care of your problem.

As far as taking care of the cracks, depending on how severe. I "V" out the cracks with a utility knife and apply 3 tight coats of durabond. Works great!! I don't usually use mesh tape on cracks due to the fact that your when your applying multiple coats, your creating a belly where the cracks are located. 

Just some options for you....

Thanks


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

If your ceiling had calcium coat on it like mine does nothing is going to stick to it. The only way to get durabond to stick is mixing it with the calcium coat. Not worth it. Remove it(plaster and lath) carefully and redo. Fix all he other problems while you're at it


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## maineuropa (Sep 27, 2008)

Okay I have googled Guards paint without success, found some sort of Seal Guards for sealing leaky sewer pipe...I doubt that's the stuff! Any more info on where this product may be found?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

This is the one I looked at yesterday. Made me love the basement we are working on.


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

1) Laminate with 3/8ths drywall or even 1/2" , long screws into ceiling joist 

2) Before plaster application, you should have used a bonding agent like plasterweld.


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## maineuropa (Sep 27, 2008)

I looked at sheetrock and was bemused to see 1/2" cheaper than 3/8"...cost is all volume related I guess, not material related...so I have skim coated the crakcs and will now wait to see whether the cracks will all reappear. If it all cracks up again quickly I will simply sheetrock it. Pity because the plaster itself is fine; it's just the paint peeling off.


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## Rouerplastering (Sep 6, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> This is the one I looked at yesterday. Made me love the basement we are working on.


Quick coat of paint should do the trick. I would spray it on though. And probably prime it first.


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## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

The product is called Gardz by Zinsser.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I almost never take down a plaster ceiling. I've rehabbed a bunch of these, as well as plaster walls. I'm assuming that it's paint peeling off the ceiling based on the pictures. They used to use some awful ceiling paint (I forget the name, but it isn't oil based) back in the 1800s that nothing will stick to permanently besides shellac based paints. Most of the walls were wallpapered, so it usually isn't an issue with the walls. Any repair / crack filling I do on plaster I do with Durabond with 50/50 water and acrylic admix. It takes longer to set hard than using water alone, but that usually isn't a problem. The acrylic admix makes the dried Durabond more able to flex without cracking, and Durabond doesn't stick to plaster to begin with. With the acrylic admix, it'll stick to the sides of any plaster crack you force it into.

Make SURE it's the way you want it before it sets.

I don't worry about developing a belly on the ceiling too much when I use mesh tape over plaster cracks (which you don't seem to have). As the guy who taught me said "you aren't trying to make it flat, you're trying to make it LOOK flat". Feathering it correctly for the room lighting situations can conceal some awful lumps and bumps.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Keep your single glazed (wooden) sashes and put some combination storms on. If you're in Maine, you know people are dumping their old storms left and right. Your energy efficiency will improve as much, it's much cheaper and faster, and it's way easier to rebuild a wooden sash than a vinyl sash...


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Rooms with plaster walls / ceilings and old crown mold are not good candidates for going over the existing plaster ceiling with gyp board. Getting the crown mold off without damaging the walls and ceiling is about impossible. They used these long skinny cut nails for the crown mold, and they tend to hook when they're driven in - they don't come out easy. The other issue with putting up significantly more weight on the ceiling is the ceiling joists are strapped down before the lath is nailed on. What you wind up with is strapping spaced a couple feet apart with one or two cut nails into each joist.


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## maineuropa (Sep 27, 2008)

@HDavis: You have hit on all the reasons I want to save the existing ceiling and not sheetrock over it...the only exception being there is no crown in the ceiling (yet ). Excellent point about the lathe strapping failure concern with the added weight: obviously the correct way would be to tear down everything and restrap with a nice levelled ceiling. Yes, if you are going to try to rock over the plaster, then you had better find the strapping holding up the lathe and additionally screw that to ceiling joists before loading it all up with more sheetrock weight. That was the solution to the bathroom renovation. The only argument for the sheetrock is that it is the only guarantee for a ceiling that will not peel, but to do it right is a dirty messy demolition job. 
The house already has combo storms old enough that we use the thermal packing type tape as a wind seal around the NE window side.


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## Pete'sfeets (Mar 20, 2011)

I wouldn't use a 123, I would go for BIN or at least an oil prime if the plaster softens the paint.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Here's the usual problem, calcimine paint (chalk and glue mixture)
http://www.oldhousejournal.com/Cures_for_Calcimine_Ceilings/magazine/1015


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## JMC1981 (Aug 27, 2011)

MaineEuropa,

Without seeing pictures it's hard to say. However, there's an alternative to what most have recommended. That's Structolite Plaster:

StructoLite Plaster

The benefits to this is that you plaster button the areas that are cracking and starting to fall apart. You then skim everything with structolite plaster. The benefits: no demolition, still have the old school plaster look, don't have to pay for new drywall and installing new drywall. 

We are also based out of Maine so take a look at our website and feel free to give us a call or send us an email: http://www.Atlantic-Drywall.com


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## maineuropa (Sep 27, 2008)

JMC1981 said:


> MaineEuropa,
> 
> Without seeing pictures it's hard to say. However, there's an alternative to what most have recommended. That's Structolite Plaster:
> 
> ...


And what makes this item stick to the ceiling _through old skim coat_ any better than any other product?


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## JMC1981 (Aug 27, 2011)

The easy and simple answer, because its plaster. We've gone over many different surfaces including outdoor chimneys and walls that are weathered in our Maine weather and have had no problems. 

Furthermore, it gives you the old texture you would see in a farmhouse of that age. 

I recommend you going through the links on our page and even searching around Google for sructolite plaster.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Pete'sfeets said:


> I wouldn't use a 123, I would go for BIN or at least an oil prime if the plaster softens the paint.


123 is Binz (Zinser) :laughing:


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

skyhook said:


> 123 is Binz (Zinser) :laughing:


Zinser makes both...

123 is oil based (like kilz)

BIN is shellac based


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I would say scrape the whole ceiling down remove all paint and any mud use a 4" razor wallpaper scraper, they sell them at home depot. then sand down the ceiling, if there are any cracks use Durabond 90 in the brown bag, dont use easy sand or joint compound. you want something that will bond with the old plaster, you could also use Plaster Weld roll out the whole ceiling then mix up your plaster and float the ceiling out. Good luck:thumbsup:


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## Pelican (Mar 4, 2011)

I have dealt with this on almost every job I have been on. Typically you need to scrape all the loose stuff. Not just a quick scrape but chase it all around until it all comes off. You can perforate it with a paper tiger wallpaper removing tool if it is sealed with primer or something. You need to wet it and let it loosen up and then scrape it off. A wallpaper steamer is good for this because it wets it and heats it. As you remove the wet calcimine you will see the plaster underneath is probably primed with something else and you need to scrub off all the calcimine with sponges or scrub pads until the surface is truly clean. Then apply by roller a good coat of Zinsers cover stain oil based primer and do your patching after you prime it. This is the best but most labor intensive method. You can just scrape off all the loose stuff. Clean the bare areas of all the calcimine that is in them and prime with coverstain or bin. If you don't remove all the calcimine you should apply the ceiling primer and paint with a sprayer.


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