# Roof Safety "Waiver"?



## SPCarpentry

My neighbor is having their roof done as I write this. It's 2 stories high. There's 8 workers stripping the roof. It's not a real steep roof, but it's not flat either. The temp's are in the low 30's with a glaze of frost covering everything. Not one worker is wearing any type of safety equipment! There is nothing to stop them from going over. Am I missing something, or should they have some form of safety gear in place? I stuck around to watch them, but I don't think I will do a Business Card Exchange :no: 

My house is on a street that gets over 10,000 cars a day driving by. I would never run a job like that if it was me.

The owner looks under 30 seems like a good guy. He has 4 "newish" Ford SD Trucks and a Van I figure 175K easy. Then add all the ladders etc. :blink:

Well I'm off to work now in my 2002 F250, and I'll have my seat belt on! :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## packer_rich

*safety*

Some type of safety equipment should always be used. If it is a low slope roof, 4/12, you are at very little risk of falling off. Slick roofs are always a risk, but roofing is a risky job. Hence the high insurance costs. Personally, anything over a 6/12 I use toeboards on. That's my choice. I also wait for the frost to clear off. There's always something else to do for an hour or so. Tarps to spread, tools to roll out, etc. Of course, if someone takes a fall, it's too late to worry about safety equipment.


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## SPCarpentry

That's what I was thinking. I have done some small roofs myself in the past. I would put down some 2x4's on the decking for safety and to hold new bundles. To old now :laughing: Not to mention the insurance goes way up :whistling

I would think because of the location, they would be concerned with being seen by someone who could give them a headache. Also it looks like they are disturbing possible lead covered wood 

I better get going, before I see to much more


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## WildWill

The world is a changing place and safety is a huge concern. The things that you think nothing of today will require safety equipment in the future.


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## 1985gt

The safety rules changed. Residential I believe that toe boards are not longer fall protection. A harness or other safety device must be used at all times. No matter what the slope.


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## woodworkbykirk

they should either have harnesses on or have a handrail set up at the edge of the roof that is somehow mounted to the structure.. or set up a scaffold that is higher than the edge of the roof by 3-4' plus has a full platform .

any time we strip roofs for additions or resheahing for our roofer we do the scaffold thing.. typically we have 3 or 4 guys on the roof then 2 guys on the staging pulling the debris down and dropping it to a safezone

regarding toekicks.. no they dont count as a guard rail. its there to keep debris and tools from getting kicked off the edge so to protect people below


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## EthanB

Most professional roofers I see take safety a lot less seriously than I do. If I'm working anywhere on top of the roof I'll have toe boards at the very least and if it's slippery,steep or windy I'll put on my harness. It's less than 10 min to set up a toe board and even less than that for the harness. What's the rush?

A lot of the guys I see around here don't even tie their ladders off! How dumb would you feel if the HO looked up and saw you stuck on their roof?


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## Tinstaafl

EthanB said:


> How dumb would you feel if the HO looked up and saw you stuck on their roof?


Pretty dumb. But the time it happened to me, I told the grunt who was helping me that he could clean up and go home while I finished up on the roof. He cleaned up very nicely--including putting the ladder away.

When I was done, it took about 15 minutes of screaming to get the HO's attention. :laughing:


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## EthanB

Tinstaafl said:


> Pretty dumb. But the time it happened to me, I told the grunt who was helping me that he could clean up and go home while I finished up on the roof. He cleaned up very nicely--including putting the ladder away.
> 
> When I was done, it took about 15 minutes of screaming to get the HO's attention. :laughing:


I just put a new roof on my garage. My father-in-law(who is awesome btw) kept getting excited about bringing up bundles but I told him to hold off until I finished the starter courses and put up the toe board. He came up the ladder with a "surprise" bundle and thunked it down, it promptly slid off the roof just barely missing the ladder. It wasn't a big drop but the expression on his face was priceless. We were both imagining that jump for a second.


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## cheewacheewa

Fall protection should be used at atleast 6ft.OSHA has recently revamped the rules a little bit and are putting more focus into residential construction.


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## catfish

I'm 54 and would never tie off on a residential roof.
I used to do wood roofs up to 10/12 without toe boards. Get ready to drop a turd when you hear the method.

We would take 3/4 cedar 12x, drive nails 8d at an angle.build a platform on that we could sit on and take off roofing.

Did that for 5 years. SOP at the time. Nobody fell cause we didn't have our heads up it.

If you don't roof on a regular basis, by all means tie off.


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## EPD

At the very least my employees are fully compliant. I wouldnt risk my company, the guys who work for me, or wsib rates, ever. 
Myself on the other hand, in a high exposure area at the very least I'd be harnessed - maybe not hooked to anything, but wearing one


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## BlackBearLadder

If the roof is low slope less than 4/12 you can use a properly installed perimeter warning line set back 6 feet from leading edge. This must be set up according to OSHA guidelines, this can only be done by a roofer in the act of roofing, any other trade (HVAC) or activity on a low slope you must set the warning line 15 ft from leading edge. As of June 2011 toe boards are no longer acceptable for roofing. You must be in fall protection (harness and lanyard) or guardrail eve and rake. Also it is illegal to carry materials up a ladder.


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## rselectric1

BlackBearLadder said:


> Also it is illegal to carry materials up a ladder.


I've been seriously injured in the line our line of work so I get it.

However, nobody including big brother will dictate how materials are stocked. 

How our real forefathers in construction must be rolling in their graves watching all this regulation.


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## thom

BlackBear, saying it is illegal to carry materials up a ladder makes no sense at all. Consider the following:

A single shingle blew off and needs replacement.
You're going to install an antenna on the roof.
The chimney cap needs to be screwed on.
The evaporative cooler (on the roof) needs servicing.

Most of the materials needed will fit in your pocket.


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## Dirtywhiteboy

thom said:


> BlackBear, saying it is illegal to carry materials up a ladder makes no sense at all. Consider the following:
> 
> A single shingle blew off and needs replacement.
> You're going to install an antenna on the roof.
> The chimney cap needs to be screwed on.
> The evaporative cooler (on the roof) needs servicing.
> 
> Most of the materials needed will fit in your pocket.


If they can fit in your pocket your all good It's when you toss a bundle on your shoulder or tie up one hand with a tool that's no good. They have ladder safety classes that cover all this. Stats. show that most job site accidents happen from the misuse of ladders. It's all fun and games till you end up on a big job and your butt gets a huge fine or sh!tcaned because you don't know how to use a ladder. My favorite is the 15-20 second video sent to the GC of you messing up:laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy

rselectric1 said:


> I've been seriously injured in the line our line of work so I get it.


Unfortunately this is what has to happen for most to get it:blink: or huge fines:blink:


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## Astrix

SPCarpentry said:


> My neighbor is having their roof done as I write this. It's 2 stories high. There's 8 workers stripping the roof. It's not a real steep roof, but it's not flat either. The temp's are in the low 30's with a glaze of frost covering everything. Not one worker is wearing any type of safety equipment! There is nothing to stop them from going over....


Almost 10 years ago, the Canadian federal goverment enacted Bill C-45 which can hold company owners, executives, and managers/supervisors criminally responsible for health and safety violations. This came about because of the Westray Mine disaster in 1992 where 26 miners were killed albeit there being many previous warnings that the mine had unsafe conditions and the company did nothing about it. 
For those interested in reading more: Westray

So now, in Canada, an owner of a company cannot plead that he didn't know his workers were working in unsafe conditions. He will have to prove that his company has safety procedures in place and that his managers were enforcing these safety procedures to the best of their ability. We are talking CRIMINAL charges here, which would mean prison time if found guilty of poor safety practices!

It is doubtful the USA will enact such a law as the U.S. is more capitalistic than their northern socialist neighbour Canada. I would venture to say that if this roofing company were here in Canada, the owner would be one slip & fall or one whistleblower away from serious repercussions.


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## Dirtywhiteboy

Here in the US the worker is covered by workers compensation. The worker has the right to know the 29CFR and this book of regulations is given out freely at the federal building. Knowing you rights is key. You do not have to do unsafe work practices! You can call the OSHA office on your employer. The employee can own his own PPE and use it! I own all my own. There is nobody holding a gun to anybody to get work done. One should know there rights and the Law:thumbsup: Maybe the worker should be charged with criminal stupidly.:laughing:


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## Astrix

Canada has mandatory Workers Comp as well, administered entirely by our socialist government. The thing though is that in both the U.S. and Canada, Workers Comp is no-fault coverage. The worker gets paid for his injuries whether its his own fault/stupidity/clumsiness or whether there is fault or part-fault of how the owner runs his business. The only "punishment" to the owner is monetary; higher Workers Comp costs and possibly fines if the situation was serious.

The Canadian Bill C-45 that I mentioned now raises the stakes for the owners and managers/supervisors because it now makes it CRIMINAL to close a blind eye to unsafe work conditions. A monetary fine seems like a light punishment compared to several years of prison time.

DWB: Of interest, how much does the equipment in your photo cost on a per worker basis? I'm guessing it is cheaper than a surcharge on the average Workers Comp premium.


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