# Less than 25% offset?



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm going to be laying some 6x24 Mediterranea Canyon Timber porcelain floor tile for a client, hoping to start next day or so. Client just picked up the tile so today was my first chance to get a look at them.

Client wants tile laid in "running bond"/offset style. As I was checking out the tile I noticed a diagram on the box showing a running bond pattern with a huge black X over it, then acceptable herringbone and micro-offset (like 3").

Went to their website and they STRONGLY recommend a less than 25% offset. 

I can't figure out why. What could the amount of offset affect so much? Looking at the 2 other acceptable patterns I can't figure out why they limit the offset. I'm gonna have to call them tomorrow but I wondered if anyone has run into this before.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm not sure I follow, but if you offset by 25% in a running bond (I'd call it a 1/4 bond), then don't you offset by 75% on the other side?


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I would guess that due to the drying process, that long and skinny of a tile tends to bow in the drying process. The result being unacceptable lippage if placed in a running bond pattern.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

And then there is the Geddis 3 step when laid in a 3 way running bond. Pattern best reserved for those super "true" jobs..


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## kitking (Oct 8, 2012)

With the running bond, with a large offset... That floor pattern can make natural variations in the material pronounced, and can lead to warranty claims of defect, that are not true... It's an optical illusion of sorts

The herringbone pattern, I think would not be good either... That's a long tile for that... A random offset would PROB be best... That's what I would do... If I wasn't doing the 25% offset

Be leery, it can cause the homeowner to point out sections they don't like after you have it down... And you will have a hard time fighting it out with them...


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

I thought lippage.......but bowing? I had no idea it could be so much to make a real difference.

I just figured if my sub floor was dead-on...or close as possible, and i set them right; I would have no problem.

Is it the long/narrow shape that would be conducive to that amount of bowing? Never seen anything that severe in 18x18's or 24x24's. 

Like you said....if 25, then 75. wtf?


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

kitking said:


> With the running bond, with a large offset... That floor pattern can make natural variations in the material pronounced, and can lead to warranty claims of defect, that are not true... It's an optical illusion of sorts
> 
> The herringbone pattern, I think would not be good either... That's a long tile for that... A random offset would PROB be best... That's what I would do... If I wasn't doing the 25% offset
> 
> Be leery, it can cause the homeowner to point out sections they don't like after you have it down... And you will have a hard time fighting it out with them...


 When I looked at the site the aesthetic angle crossed my mind, but really? Again, isn't that my problem. If you can make a cheap 4 variation tile (with 1 that screams "I am a P-O-S !", recurring 21 times on a floor) look good .....then this stuff is a joke. It starts off looking great. To STRONGLY recommend against? Interesting. 

I'll have to look closer and see how many different variations their are.

Random offset would be my choice, especially cause the tiles look like petrified wood. RO would look the best. I will just have to convince them tomorrow. But I will still have over 25's.... and under 75's.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

You can check the bow of the tile by grabbing some at random and setting them on their face on a flat surface. 

By limiting overlap to 25-30% you are putting the corners closer to each other and keeping the bows closer to lining up that way. 

I'm about to have to deal with the same issue with some 12x24 ceramic. I haven't seen more than one tile so I don't know how flat they are yet and the HO wants a brick pattern as well.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

r4r&r said:


> You can check the bow of the tile by grabbing some at random and setting them on their face on a flat surface. Imagine placing a bowed tile and then placing the corner of tile in the row under it. You have the bow angling up and the corner angling down. You now have an 1/8" or better difference to deal with, compound that over 20 or 30 or 100 or more tiles and you have a nightmare install.
> 
> I'm about to have to deal with the same issue with some 12x24 ceramic. I haven't seen more than one tile so I don't know how flat they are yet and the HO wants a brick pattern as well.


 Sure, tiles bowed before install. I assume as result of manufacturing/drying process. That I can deal with (maybe). But to bow significantly, after installation? 

If i remember my quick look, these tiles have a pretty sharp edge. Hard to disguise lippage. Client wants them laid tight as possible too. I've laid some 6x24 with that eased, natural wood plank texture. Fairly straight, and the rolled, soft edge made it basically unnoticeable any time there was minor lip.


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## Sprung831 (Apr 4, 2012)

Blue Ridge, I would make sure if the customer really wants a running bond, you have a discussion with them. Show them the manufacturer's spec on NO MORE THAN 25% OFFSET. Make sure you really drive this home. Explain to them as thinset cures, it does shrink down. The bigger (or longer and more narrow) a tile is, the more it will bow as it cures. I would DEFINITELY use an edge leveling system (Tornado Leveling System, or the likes), and make an agreement with the customer that you are taking extra steps to help ensure a lippage free floor, but you can make no guarantees that it will be perfect.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Just met with the client today. Explained all the realities involved with this install. Random offset is the agreed deal. Minor lippage is expected. Sub-floor is 8 out of 10 and will suffice.

Truth be told, I have never used any leveling systems. I have a come to respect the tile ballers on this site and am starting to think I might be missing a real time saver. I have spent enormous amounts of time (today) planing sub-floors and setting tile in deep beds to overcome lippage. 

I am self-taught in most disciplines and I make no apologies for this. But, I have to say, just reading all the posts and paying attention to different ways of dealing with the problems we face has already (few short months) made me better at what i do. I really appreciate everyone's willingness to elevate our chosen profession. 

A huge and sincere thank you to everyone that takes the time to give freely of their experiential knowledge. May seem trite to some, but to me, it is received as the selfless and generous gesture that it is.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Rectified porcelain can be set within 1/16th I believe. I have set some rectified porcelain plank tiles on running bond with 1/8th grout joint with almost zero lippage. It also took me 7 hours to lay 45 sq ft bathroom. :clap::blink:

1st thing I do is use a straight edge and go corner to corner, then I check flatness and squareness before offering any type of pattern other than straight till I can verify the tiles.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

kevjob said:


> Rectified porcelain can be set within 1/16th I believe. I have set some rectified porcelain plank tiles on running bond with 1/8th grout joint with almost zero lippage. It also took me 7 hours to lay 45 sq ft bathroom. :clap::blink:
> 
> 1st thing I do is use a straight edge and go corner to corner, then I check flatness and squareness before offering any type of pattern other than straight till I can verify the tiles.


 Checked em today. Very good on flat and square. Sub-floor fades in th e last 3 feet, but just along the longitudinal (long?) line, so it should be no problem. The client wants 1/16th joint but I think that is pushing it with these tiles. 1/8th it is. Falls right into manufacturer specs.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Done. Really like the look of that tile...the paint color? eh.


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## kitking (Oct 8, 2012)

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Looks great!!!!!!!!


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## tileman2000 (Feb 14, 2011)

See... You worried about nothing.

Fine job Blue.


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