# Air waves under new vinyl flooring



## geospec (May 23, 2009)

Hi All,

The guy with the "bigger" heat gun never show up yesterday. I guess that he is playing gulf with his buddies. The area that heat (torched) was applied few days ago, the delamination is worse now and the home owner is furious with us. :furious:

Rkeister was right! The technical support group of StainMaster that soft-step requires pressure sensitive MT-711 adhesive. StainMaster told us to take it out and make sure to remove the V-31 adhesive. By the way, StainMaster voided the warranty for the home owner! 

There were no dollies ever used on the finished floor.

Side issue: We installed the floor first because the home owner wanted the bottom of the cabinets protected with a layer of vinyl for water protection. They have pets and their past experience with vinyl flooring with a particle board under-layment was disastrous. They are older couple and tile flooring will be too hard on their feet!

George


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## Rkeister (May 25, 2009)

Also is this glued right over plywood, The cushioned products should still be glued to a luan board. I believe stratamax is the only product able to put put down directly over ply.


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

Luan?
wrong...
Luan is cheap crap...why would ply be less warrantied?
because it's more stable?

Look very detailed at Vinyl manufacturer warranties over Luan.


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## Rkeister (May 25, 2009)

Well if you want to get technical i use the term loosely, we use ultraply and it does a fine job.


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## Mike Costello (Aug 1, 2004)

No technical about it, no one warranties luan.

Plywood is fine as long as it is exterior grade. Not a fan of it myself but its doable.

Im a Tech Ply fan myself. I had 2 Ultraply floors delam on me and all they would do is give me new plywood


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

> Well if you want to get technical i use the term loosely, we use ultraply and it does a fine job.


sorry, but yes, I do get technical.
Luan is an actual product different from ply.
I just nit pick....


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## geospec (May 23, 2009)

Hi All,

We finally repaired the air bubble flooring. During the demo, the vinyl sheet peeled right out without any effort from the plywood subfloor. The  thing was no gluing to the subfloor! My co-worker took the whole sheet of the vinyl flooring home and said that he will use that on his garage as a floating floor. We had to removed the plywood subfloor and installed a new subfloor. This time, we ordered the right glue instead of trusting the sales rep. at the supplier's warehouse.

Before using the MT-711 on the new floor, we tested the adhesive on a scrapped plywood a week earlier, and we tried to peel the vinyl off without any success.

Everything looks fine now and we hope that nightmare will not haunt us again in the future!

Thanks and stay away from the Mannington's Sorbella flooring!:clap:


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## yellowsucker (Apr 22, 2012)

geospec said:


> My flooring subcontractor installed a new Stainmaster Soft Step 12.00 on our newly plywood subfloor for a kitchen addition on January of this year in San Francisco. The kitchen cabinets were installed a week later on this vinyl flooring and everything was completed on schedule. A month latter after the completion, the flooring started to develop air waves of 1/2 inch wide by 20 ft long under the vinyl and the air gap is progressing to about 6 inches wide now. We called the Stainmaster's technical service and we provided all the necessary information and hoping for a helping hand to solve this problem. Stainmaster's technical service told us that the dealer gave us the wrong type of glue (Adhesive V-31) for this flooring and told us to get together with the dealer to replace this vinyl flooring. The right glue should have been MT-711. Yesterday, the dealer's technician is scratching his brains to repair this flooring with a flame torches and the air wave reappeared when the vinyl cool off. The technician promised to return next week with a "bigger" heat gun to do a pro job. Do you think this repair approach will work?


27 years of installing --a bigger heat gun--thats funny--no it will not work


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## yellowsucker (Apr 22, 2012)

forget all about the -so called pressure glues --use roberts 3085 it will stick anything --no set up time glue it and lay it --who care how hard it is to remove latter--my moto is make it stay down worry about taking it up way way latter


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

yellowsucker said:


> forget all about the -so called pressure glues --use roberts 3085 it will stick anything --no set up time glue it and lay it --who care how hard it is to remove latter--my moto is make it stay down worry about taking it up way way latter


That will void the warranty. You better hope it doesn't fail.


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## mofeenster (Apr 25, 2011)

It does not sound like an easy job to repair and leave in well finished state, I would definitely get the vinyl re-fitted at the cost of the dealer as it was his lack of expertise that let you down.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Floorwizard said:


> Luan?
> wrong...
> Luan is cheap crap...why would ply be less warrantied?
> because it's more stable?
> ...


Only a couple grades are accepted by mannington and Armstrong.........make sure your luan is top notch......thumbsup!


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Armstrong only recommends particle board with a minimum of 3/8 thick.. Nothing below that should be acceptable.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Floormasta78 said:


> Armstrong only recommends particle board with a minimum of 3/8 thick.. Nothing below that should be acceptable.


Have u used particle board on install before? Never thought to try it


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

That's all I use. Now, particle board does warp faster but that's why you take precautionary steps. New wax rings, bolts, seal corners caulk wet areas.. Common sense things that any trained and certified vinyl, residential and commercial installer should know. I walked into a commercial vinyl job in a pharmacy here in Berkley California, where the contractor to save money installed 1/4 Luann board.. Screw that! I said unless you change it i'm not doing it . It was 10, 000 sft of vct Tile and 300 yrds of Medintech tandem. I was referred by Armstrong instructor. I was nit going to look bad because of his cheap choice. 

My point is , Luann should be used only inside a 1980's van paneling.. Lol !


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

We have been using luan with great success for at least 10 years....that being said we have top quality available and a guarantee from the wood supplier and both mannington and Armstrong for our product........and yes it is lining my van behind my shelf......lol


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Commercial; I've never installed over wood for vct or vinyl anyways....maybe luan not the right choice for that.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

Well you can use particle board if you want. I'll use underlayment grade plywood, like Armstrong taught me in vinyl school. By the way, no one accepts luan as an underlayment. Too many voids and too much chance of staining.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

rusty baker said:


> Well you can use particle board if you want. I'll use underlayment grade plywood, like Armstrong taught me in vinyl school. By the way, no one accepts luan as an underlayment. Too many voids and too much chance of staining.


Maybe not wer Ur at......but we have it in literature....


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

The vinyl reps always warn us that luan voids the warranty. Although I have used in the past when nothing else was available. I have inspected jobs where the voids collapsed and the installer bought the job for using it. Didn't know that Canadian rules were different. But in the states, you will automatically lose a warranty claim if luan was used.


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