# Drug Testing when Marijuana is Legal



## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

To those contractors working in places with legal recreational marijuana use, are you hiring employees who test or would test positive for THC?

Or, if your state legalized recreational marijuana would you change your drug testing policy?

I don't have any employees but if I did hire one I doubt I would do a drug test initially. I'm just curious how the industry will tolerate new substance abuse laws.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Agility said:


> To those contractors working in places with legal recreational marijuana use, are you hiring employees who test or would test positive for THC?
> 
> Or, if your state legalized recreational marijuana would you change your drug testing policy?
> 
> I don't have any employees but if I did hire one I doubt I would do a drug test initially. I'm just curious how the industry will tolerate new substance abuse laws.


If you won't hire a guy that tests positive for THC you are going to have a hard time finding laborers.


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> If you won't hire a guy that tests positive for THC you are going to have a hard time finding laborers.


Oh I'm sure of it. I don't care what goes on in a hand's free time.


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## Jeff G (Apr 5, 2010)

It seems to me that the crux of the point would revolve around someone being impaired while on the job. Alcohol is legal, but we don't usually associate its use while at work, or impairment in some way from it (pukin' sick and ends of hair sore from previous night's social entanglements)


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Also if I understand correctly it stays in your system for 30 days as well, that's why most professionals who have to undergo drug tests use drugs that pass through the system quicker...like cocaine.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

I've often wondered what the legalities are if you refuse to hire someone who tested positive for pot, but they have a prescription for it. Could that be considered 'discrimination'? I don't care what you do on your own time, but don't be on my jobsite toking up (or drinking).


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

I could see some OTJ injury s being denied coverage...

I've worked at places that require a test with any trips to the er or dr.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

TimelessQuality said:


> I could see some OTJ injury s being denied coverage...
> 
> I've worked at places that require a test with any trips to the er or dr.


My WC policy requires a drug test at treatment for OJI.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

TimelessQuality said:


> I could see some OTJ injury s being denied coverage...
> 
> I've worked at places that require a test with any trips to the er or dr.


But you are still eligible for WC no matter the result


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Also if I understand correctly it stays in your system for 30 days as well, that's why most professionals who have to undergo drug tests use drugs that pass through the system quicker...like cocaine.


If you want to go pro, switch to blow. Has a nice ring to it.


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## QCCI (Jan 28, 2013)

Anti-wingnut said:


> But you are still eligible for WC no matter the result


In Missouri, when there is an accident and requires treatment, most insurance companies require a drug test to be administered. Benefits are automatically cut in half with a positive a drug test.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Anti-wingnut said:


> But you are still eligible for WC no matter the result


Not according to my policy. It has specific language about illegal drug use and denial of benefits. I believe that's the industry standard, but I don't know for sure. I don't smoke (anymore), so it doesn't concern me.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Around here, between state and local laws, an employee just about needs to beat someone to death with a giant block of heroin, before you can politely wonder whether he has a drug problem and could use some help.

Edit: Well, OK, that's a slight exaggeration. Drug testing is pretty much limited to employees with clear public safety roles - bus drivers, etc. It's not allowed, even post-accident, with other employees, unless there's some compelling evidence that drugs were the cause.


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Around here, between state and local laws, an employee just about needs to beat someone to death with a giant block of heroin, before you can politely wonder whether he has a drug problem and could use some help.


:laughing:


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

I just went to a seminar on this topic..... This is for states with medical marijuana. You as an employer do not have to recognize medical marijuana as a medicine and can hire and fire at will.....This is were it gets weird (unless it is a federally funded project). Then they are protected, but cannot be using on the job site. 

I still don't grasp why federally funded projects allow medical marijuana when it is still federally illegal, but that's the government for you. As for states that have recreational use you can hire, fire, and drug test as you want. There was an employer that tested for tobacco and fired anyone who tested positive. It went to trial and they found the employer to be within his rights as his health insurance premiums are affected by tobacco use.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Some unions still do not allow pre hire drug screening.... Most do, but in Chicago you cannot pre hire test an Iron Worker. All other locals you can, just not iron workers...... They must need drugs


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

If I was an iron worker i'd need drugs. especially if I was a Rod Buster. 

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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

If it's legal then wouldn't it be discrimination to not hire someone based on their legal use of a substance?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

QCCI said:


> In Missouri, when there is an accident and requires treatment, most insurance companies require a drug test to be administered. Benefits are automatically cut in half with a positive a drug test.


Not so simple. The use must be against company written policy, and (1) contributory or proximate (2) to the accident.
287.120



> 6. (1) Where the employee fails to obey any rule or policy adopted by the employer relating to a drug-free workplace or the use of alcohol or nonprescribed controlled drugs in the workplace, the compensation and death benefit provided for herein shall be reduced fifty percent if the injury was sustained in conjunction with the use of alcohol or nonprescribed controlled drugs.
> 
> (2) If, however, the use of alcohol or nonprescribed controlled drugs in violation of the employer's rule or policy is the proximate cause of the injury, then the benefits or compensation otherwise payable under this chapter for death or disability shall be forfeited.
> 
> (3) The voluntary use of alcohol to the percentage of blood alcohol sufficient under Missouri law to constitute legal intoxication shall give rise to a rebuttable presumption that the voluntary use of alcohol under such circumstances was the proximate cause of the injury. A preponderance of the evidence standard shall apply to rebut such presumption. An employee's refusal to take a test for alcohol or a nonprescribed controlled substance, as defined by section 195.010, at the request of the employer shall result in the forfeiture of benefits under this chapter if the employer had sufficient cause to suspect use of alcohol or a nonprescribed controlled substance by the claimant or if the employer's policy clearly authorizes post-injury testing.


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## QCCI (Jan 28, 2013)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Not so simple. The use must be against company written policy, and (1) contributory or proximate (2) to the accident. 287.120


You're right. I went through this a couple years ago. I just didn't get all that technical here. I had/have this policy in our company handbook, with signatures from all employees.

I think all commercial contractors in Missouri have this policy in their company manuals. If they don't, then they may need to reevaluate their insurance company.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jaydee said:


> In Massachusetts it's the business owners discretion.
> 
> Personally I don't want that around my site ever. :no::no::no:


Makes great common sense and business sense. 

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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I guess no one here was around before drug testing was used?


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

avenge said:


> I guess no one here was around before drug testing was used?


I wasn't but I'm assuming nothing got built and everyone got hurt.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Agility said:


> I wasn't but I'm assuming nothing got built and everyone got hurt.


You'd be surprised!!:whistling


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Agility said:


> I wasn't but I'm assuming nothing got built and everyone got hurt.


Most things were built better and I'll bet the rate of injury is higher today. Back in the day drinking was common, during my time pot was the most common and still is today.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

"Legal" doesn't necessarily mean "OK".

Even if possession and use is not associated with the jail sentence that it once was, the law does not alleviate you from the stigma and the reputation associated with being a pot head.

If someone comes on the jobsite looking like Mr. Snuffleupagus and saying things like, "Hiiiiiii Biiiirrrrrd....." he can't work for me. 

Is it discrimination? Yes. But so what?! Go into any court of law and complain that you got fired for being high on the job and/or having drugs in your system and see if you have a job when you walk out of there.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

tedanderson said:


> "Legal" doesn't necessarily mean "OK".
> 
> Even if possession and use is not associated with the jail sentence that it once was, the law does not alleviate you from the stigma and the reputation associated with being a pot head.
> 
> ...


Seems people don't realize how many people use pot on a daily basis and function normally and you would never know it. And if it's illegal doesn't mean it should be.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

jaydee said:


> In Massachusetts it's the business owners discretion.
> 
> Personally I don't want that around my site ever. :no::no::no:


I don't want it on my site either just like I don't want people drinking. Accidents are hard enough to prevent with sober workers - but I don't care what they do on their time.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

If there was a way to only test for use within the last few hours, I'd be ok with that. Getting hurt because you were high or drunk is different than getting hurt and being penalized for something you did last week.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

tedanderson said:


> If someone comes on the jobsite looking like Mr. Snuffleupagus and saying things like, "Hiiiiiii Biiiirrrrrd....." he can't work for me.


:laughing: Have you had experience with this sort of thing before?


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> :laughing: Have you had experience with this sort of thing before?


If you've seen Snuffleupagus walk onto your jobsite, maybe it's YOU that should be taking the drug test :laughing:


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I'm sure that pot smokers can and often do function normally but after a while that stuff starts to fry your brain to the point where you can't think straight and as a result, your interpersonal relationships start to suffer. e.g. I worked with a guy who used to refer to mirrors as windows. Not only did it annoy the rest of us when he said one thing but meant something else but he would get mad because he thought that he said exactly what he meant.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

blacktop said:


> If a Hanging crew without workers comp Is working under mine...Then YES . It has everything to do with safety . If one gets hurt Then ends up at ER, The first thing they do Is a blood test!


Says who? Who can legally compel a blood test? Certainly not you.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

tedanderson said:


> I'm sure that pot smokers can and often do function normally but after a while that stuff starts to fry your brain to the point where you can't think straight and as a result, your interpersonal relationships start to suffer. e.g. I worked with a guy who used to refer to mirrors as windows. Not only did it annoy the rest of us when he said one thing but meant something else but he would get mad because he thought that he said exactly what he meant.


That had nothing to do with drugs !


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Says who? Who can legally compel a blood test? Certainly not you.


You ever been to ER? That's the first thing they do!


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

blacktop said:


> You ever been to ER? That's the first thing they do!


But you, the state or your insurance company can't order that the blood be tested for drugs. I've been to the ER several times, and the only time they did a blood draw was when I was wheeled in with kidney stones.

And even if the blood is tested for drugs, that is none of your business because of HIPA


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

tedanderson said:


> I'm sure that pot smokers can and often do function normally but after a while that stuff starts to fry your brain to the point where you can't think straight and as a result, your interpersonal relationships start to suffer. e.g. I worked with a guy who used to refer to mirrors as windows. Not only did it annoy the rest of us when he said one thing but meant something else but he would get mad because he thought that he said exactly what he meant.


That's a load of bull****, the guy was moron to begin with. If you think pot does that to people than you're no brighter than he is.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Anti-wingnut said:


> And even if the blood is tested for drugs, that is none of your business because of HIPA


And my comp won't find out ?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

blacktop said:


> And my comp won't find out ?


Find out what? They only test the blood for what is medically needed. There is no reason to test for drugs in the the blood of a otherwise healthy individual with a broken thumb from dropping drywall.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

If I ask for a drug test and it is refused, that hand is fired. 

If it is illegal, good luck proving it in court. I doubt a judge would give it a second thought.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

blacktop said:


> Your right dude .. Yeah man .... Straight up dude ....I don't know why they trippin dude man!.............. Dude ....What was we talking about?


Do you really know guys that speak like Spicoli? :no: Seems like I knew a few guys like that in high school. I've yet to meet someone like that on the job site and definitely not with in my peer group.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Agility said:


> That doesn't sound correct.


http://www.crn.com/news/channel-pro...ite-not-hipaa-compliant-doesnt-need-to-be.htm


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Reg said:


> Do you really know guys that speak like Spicoli? :no: Seems like I knew a few guys like that in high school. I've yet to meet someone like that on the job site and definitely not with in my peer group.


No . I just couldn't help myself !!


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

blacktop said:


> Your right dude .. Yeah man .... Straight up dude ....I don't know why they trippin dude man!.............. Dude ....What was we talking about?





Reg said:


> Do you really know guys that speak like Spicoli? :no: Seems like I knew a few guys like that in high school. I've yet to meet someone like that on the job site and definitely not with in my peer group.


I actually heard a group of men not boys talking like that at the gas station this morning.:laughing:


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Leo G said:


> http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/240163174/obamacare-site-not-hipaa-compliant-doesnt-need-to-be.htm


Admittedly I didn't get into it too closely but isn't that just saying that the Obamacare website isn't HIPAA compliant (and doesn't need to be...for some reason)? That's not the same as eliminating HIPAA.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Actually it is complicated. You are asking your employees to sign a document that is illegal. If you fire an employee over this, you may be liable for damages.
> 
> Ha ha


Why would that document be illegal? How would I be liable for damages? 

If I have a rule-set that you agree to, and you break those rules, how am I liable for YOU breaking the rules? Please explain.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

66 Shelby said:


> Why would that document be illegal? How would I be liable for damages?
> 
> If I have a rule-set that you agree to, and you break those rules, how am I liable for YOU breaking the rules? Please explain.


I think what he's saying is unless it's already legal you could be taken to court. If you made me sign a statement saying I won't wear see through pants and you fired me for doing so I could take you to court claiming discrimination, if I were a woman I would have been given a raise.:laughing:


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

66 Shelby said:


> Why would that document be illegal? How would I be liable for damages?
> 
> If I have a rule-set that you agree to, and you break those rules, how am I liable for YOU breaking the rules? Please explain.



Because it is a employment contract..... Just because you put something in a contract does not mean it is enforceable or legal..... 

Contract whose formation, object, or performance is so iniquitous, against the law of the land, or contrary to public policy, that no court will entertain or enforce it. Technically, it is a 'no contract.' In situations where two wrong doers enter into an illegal contract and one of them takes advantage of the other, law normally will not intercede to rectify the situation.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

avenge said:


> Pot smokers aren't druggies and you can't fix what's already stupid to begin with. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be "I'm working with" not "I working with"


Well, I no longer work with two of them any more. They smoked thier lunch across the road and pulled in front of on coming traffic coming back from lunch. T- boned the car. Cops hauled them in. Don't know if they are coming back or not. No one hurt , so that was a good thing.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Gary H said:


> Well, I no longer work with two of them any more. They smoked thier lunch across the road and pulled in front of on coming traffic coming back from lunch. T- boned the car. Cops hauled them in. Don't know if they are coming back or not. No one hurt , so that was a good thing.


this just happened today? Idiots!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> this just happened today? Idiots!


Stoners!

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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Stoners!
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


I'm not going to stick up for them. Bad decisions will kick you in the ass every time stoned or not.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> I'm not going to stick up for them. Bad decisions will kick you in the ass every time stoned or not.


did you ever think for a second that getting stoned was the bad decision, and affected their thinking that caused them to get in a car wreck? Did you ever think for a second that the wreck probably would not of happened if they were sober?


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Trying to teach apprentice masons over the decades, I've found that Dope smokers rarely retained more than one or two new things a week.... after much repetition.... They are coffee cups with a 1/4" hole about an 1/8" from the bottom retention wise...one can indentify the age at which the user started heavy use by speech and behavior limits...

A few slow down or quit, and viola they start learning again a few months later, most will never catch up to their drug free members of their age group.

Dangerous and BORING coworkers. What U do last nite? Got high, @ lunch, Got high, 4:20, got high, watched TV & got stoned.... Oops I just backed over your truck... again. If only THC made you sterile...

Most are morally infantile, the Boss/company/parents owe them...

As management/employers, if you can only retain stoners or other marginal employees in certain tasks, Maybe one ought to improve conditions and or spend a little more$ on pay?

Turn in your own Drug test with the new hires(if you're drug free), Its a hell of moral builder. And cheap.

Alcohol is in and out in hours for all but the heaviest users, THC lasts for days and weeks, It is an unfair World


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Reg said:


> this just happened today? Idiots!


Yes. Crossing 5 lanes of traffic . They made it across 4 lanes but the 5 th one did them in.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

........


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> did you ever think for a second that getting stoned was the bad decision, and affected their thinking that caused them to get in a car wreck? Did you ever think for a second that the wreck probably would not of happened if they were sober?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


She did, hence the "not going to stick up for them"


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> did you ever think for a second that getting stoned was the bad decision, and affected their thinking that caused them to get in a car wreck? Did you ever think for a second that the wreck probably would not of happened if they were sober?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


What went through my mind was, getting stoned and driving directly after was the bad decision. 

That's why I said I wouldn't stick up for them. 

But I also know people do this sort of thing not stoned. 

And I also know that just because a person gets stoned, doesn't mean they are not capable of making a good decision. 

So I have to think these guys were kind of idiots. A combination of getting stoned, high testosterone and youth probably all came in to play.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

mrcharles said:


> Because it is a employment contract..... *Just because you put something in a contract does not mean it is enforceable or legal.....*
> 
> Contract whose *formation, object, or performance is so iniquitous, against the law of the land, or contrary to public policy*, that no court will entertain or enforce it. Technically, it is a 'no contract.' In situations where two wrong doers enter into an illegal contract and one of them takes advantage of the other, law normally will not intercede to rectify the situation.


So what I pay my attorney to review/rewrite/approve my contract language is just wasted money? What you're saying doesn't make much sense to me (although I'm not the sharpest blade of grass on that lawnmower :laughing. As far as I'm concerned, a contract is a legally binding agreement between two parties. If you don't like the terms, DON'T SIGN IT! 

As far as pot smokers not retaining knowledge, that's a blanket statement that's somewhat wrong. If you're high when you're trying to learn something, then yes, you won't retain chit. If you smoke to relax at the end of the day, then there's really nothing to remember. Some VERY successful businessmen have admitted to being smokers. No different than having a couple of drinks after work IMO. I'm not advocating pot use, but I don't condemn it either. I used to smoke A LOT when I was young. Fire up a J on the way to the job, 1 at lunch, 1 on the way home, and another (or 2 or 3..) at home. Looking back, seems dumb now. I quit smoking on jobsites 15+ years ago and my productivity (and income) went waaaaaaaay up.

YMMV :laughing:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Trying to teach apprentice masons over the decades, I've found that Dope smokers rarely retained more than one or two new things a week.... after much repetition.... They are coffee cups with a 1/4" hole about an 1/8" from the bottom retention wise...one can indentify the age at which the user started heavy use by speech and behavior limits...


THE 10 SMARTEST POT SMOKERS ON THE PLANET 
http://coed.com/2011/02/02/the-10-smartest-pot-smokers-on-the-planet-cool-enough-to-admit-it/


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> You mean you never experienced that sort of crazy boy sh*t as a twenty something, not stoned, I mean?


I made much better decisions when I wasnt high. I can't even Believe im having to convince you of this. It's not a secret that high people think differently then when they're sober. 

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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

wallmaxx said:


> I don't hire people anymore...........but my standards are this: I will NEVER hire a drunk, a doper or a rag bag. My biz, my choice. I set standards that reflect what I want to present to the customer, and I won't compromise. And the great thing is, ya don't HAVE to work for me......if DRUGS are sooooo important to you. (Not necessarily "you" but you as a generality)


 yeah, alcohol creates the biggest problem is what I've found. But even with marijuana, all the people I've ever known that use it tell me "Yeah pot is good for you! I've been using it my whole life, it's never done anything." But it's real obvious from their behavior, they are not all there, it messes with their mind.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KennMacMoragh said:


> yeah, alcohol creates the biggest problem is what I've found. But even with marijuana, all the people I've ever known that use it tell me "Yeah pot is good for you! I've been using it my whole life, it's never done anything." But it's real obvious from their behavior, they are not all there, it messes with their mind.


If they could only step out of themselves for a little while to see what they really look like. It's not something I want around my clients that's for sure. 

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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> I made much better decisions when I wasnt high. I can't even Believe im having to convince you of this. It's not a secret that high people think differently then when they're sober.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


What are you exactly trying to convince me of here Mike? 
Yes, do not drive or work when you are stoned. What is the issue?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> What are you exactly trying to convince me of here Mike?
> Yes, do not drive or work when you are stoned. What is the issue?


Didn't you just try to tell me it's not the dope that necessarily causes you to make bad decisions, it could happen to anyone? My point is your right it could happen to anyone, but everyone makes better decisions sober. 

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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Didn't you just try to tell me it's not the dope that causes you to make bad decisions it could happen to anyone? My point is your right it could happen to anyone, but everyone makes better decisions sober.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


We're talking work and driving here. 

So with your logic, no one should ever drink? Ok, I'll go with that. Yes, if we didn't drink or smoke we would all certainly make better decisions while we were at work or driving. Same page now?


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Now when are you going to admit it helps heaps of people with their pain, keeps vets relaxed, kids kids from having so many seizures, helps people have fun and relax etc.... :whistling


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Tell you what. Since I live in a ski resort tourist destination who's recreational pot shops are geared up to open next month, I'll will be your first hand account. I'll let you know if our town goes to hell. I promise I'll be honest. :thumbsup:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> Now when are you going to admit it helps heaps of people with their pain, keeps vets relaxed, kids kids from having so many seizures, helps people have fun and relax etc.... :whistling


It's your story, you can tell it any way you want! :laughing: :laughing:

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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> It's your story, you can tell it any way you want! :laughing: :laughing:
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


Is that the best you can do :laughing:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Reg said:


> wallmaxx. That was quite civil of you. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> I think for the most part we all agree going to work stoned is probably a bad idea. I know there is a few advocates here and I'm not one to judge them.


I don't like anyone using drugs or drinking while on my jobsite. I am extremely picky about my work, jobsite and appearance. But if someone takes a few hits or smokes one before work are they too impaired to perform? If a person gets wasted the night before drinking are they too impaired or hungover to perform? If a person has a drink at lunch should they return to work?

There are prescription drugs that increase mental attention and give energy like amphetamines. Can't recall the name of one of them but they are quite common.

Some people perform better under the influence. I don't care if a person is a heroin addict, if he shows up for work, does his job to my standards and doesn't bring me any drama he can work. Just don't do it on my jobsite.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

avenge said:


> Some people perform better under the influence.


With exceedingly rare exceptions, those are folks who learned their skills while under the influence. Like a guy who's only shot pool while drinking.

I don't have a particularly moral objection to anyone taking a toke now & then. It takes the edge off. But for the same reason, that guy ain't too likely to be the top brick in the chimney. He's taken his edge off.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> With exceedingly rare exceptions, those are folks who learned their skills while under the influence. Like a guy who's only shot pool while drinking.
> 
> I don't have a particularly moral objection to anyone taking a toke now & then. It takes the edge off. But for the same reason, that guy ain't too likely to be the top brick in the chimney. He's taken his edge off.


Well I don't know, I do know it's possible to use pot on a daily basis responsibly and out perform others. And I was the top brick in the chimney. Just seems to me people are dumber today.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Avenge @ 135, Think what you could have done clean and sober in those 26 years of intoxication....:devil:Cars, trucks, a businesses, lovers, family, children, homes, charity, military service... an education? world peace?:sad: We will never known will we.... THAT IS A FACT. Why would any organization let a super worker go? over and over again? Hmmm?

"Pot don't make stupid,":stupid:..... really? That must be from some other head injury?

:surrender:I'll admitt l'll never know what you know about the thirteen minutes you remember from the 26 years of your stoner life....:laughing:
Peace out.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

We can debate every fact, theory, clinical study, etc. but at the end of the day, nobody wants an employee on their site that's either high or hung over, or someone who misses work on a regular basis as a result of their drug habit. Regardless of whether or not pot is legal, if it affects the safety and/or productivity the guy has to go.


----------



## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Reg said:


> Now when are you going to admit it helps heaps of people with their pain, keeps vets relaxed, kids kids from having so many seizures, helps people have fun and relax etc.... :whistling



Pain is a signal of a problem. Why mask it? How about ya get it fixed?

I hate the ooooh it mitigates pain argument. Making an EXCUSE to justify a chosen behavior......


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

wallmaxx said:


> Pain is a signal of a problem. Why mask it? How about ya get it fixed?
> 
> I hate the ooooh it mitigates pain argument. Making an EXCUSE to justify a chosen behavior......


If pain was that easily fixed we would wouldn't have pain killers.


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Avenge @ 135, Think what you could have done clean and sober in those 26 years of intoxication....:devil:Cars, trucks, a businesses, lovers, family, children, homes, charity, military service... an education? world peace?:sad: We will never known will we.... THAT IS A FACT. Why would any organization let a super worker go? over and over again? Hmmm?
> 
> "Pot don't make stupid,":stupid:..... really? That must be from some other head injury?
> 
> ...


Instead of drug testing we should be testing for stupidity and ignorance. I hope there's not a fifth.


----------



## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Avenge @ 135, Think what you could have done clean and sober in those 26 years of intoxication....:devil:Cars, trucks, a businesses, lovers, family, children, homes, charity, military service... an education? world peace?:sad: We will never known will we.... THAT IS A FACT. Why would any organization let a super worker go? over and over again? Hmmm?
> 
> "Pot don't make stupid,":stupid:..... really? That must be from some other head injury?
> 
> ...


What a silly attack for someone you know zip about. For all you know, he may have his sh*t together way more than you do. With all your nasty words here, he certainly sounds nicer than you. 

Whether you like it or not, marijuana is here to stay. It's too important of a medicine for folks so you can cover your ears and yell whaa! whaa! whaa! to try and pretend it doesn't exist but as soon as those hands come off....


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

wallmaxx said:


> Pain is a signal of a problem. Why mask it? How about ya get it fixed?
> 
> I hate the ooooh it mitigates pain argument. Making an EXCUSE to justify a chosen behavior......


You need to educate yourself on weed for pain management. It doesn't mask pain. The other drugs do. 

Go tell a vet, "hey dude, just go get your PTSD symptoms fixed." Tell someone who is in chronic pain that they are full of BS because all they want to really do is get high. Tell someone who just had major surgery and is in the healing process that they must be smoking because in, reality, they just want to get high. 
You cant be that naive.


----------



## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Gary H said:


> No friends. Don't really hang out any where either. I have my dad and kids. That's all I need. I'm cool. I am at peace with the world .
> 
> Reread what I wrote. No where did I say people who drink are losers. I said people I was forced to grow up with that could not CONTROL therte addictions. I could care less if you drink.


Oh. Okay. We can be your friends here if you want. You just have to change your tone, just a little.  

Seriously? No friends? You are pulling our leg right? Well, my pop didn't have many friends. He had my mom. But she died when I was 24 and he was lost for a while. I mean this as a friend here Gary. Make some friends so when your dad passes and your kids move on, you will have someone to laugh with. This is a great place to meet quality folks. This particular thread might be stretching it though, meaning you probably don't want pot smoking friends.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Agility said:


> Do you think it's a fact or can you prove it's a fact? I'm going to stop thinking about it if it's just something you thought up. Otherwise, I'm interested.
> 
> Edit: were you being sarcastic?


 I don't need to convince anyone. If you don't think I'm right it's up to you to show me. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Reg said:


> Oh. Okay. We can be your friends here if you want. You just have to change your tone, just a little.  Seriously? No friends? You are pulling our leg right? Well, my pop didn't have many friends. He had my mom. But she died when I was 24 and he was lost for a while. I mean this as a friend here Gary. Make some friends so when your dad passes and your kids move on, you will have someone to laugh with. This is a great place to meet quality folks. This particular thread might be stretching it though.


I had friends but I made the mistake of having them work for me. I'm more of a loner anyway, but thanks anyway. I do understand where you are coming from. It's cool. 

I know I am odd. How can a person function without friends. I have a lot of real people I talk to and do go out to the dances and get togethers that I get invited to. Attend a lot of social events for children's fund risers. So what I am saying is I don't live as a hermit . Lol. Just don't feel the need to engage with people .


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't need to convince anyone. If you don't think I'm right it's up to you to show me. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I'm not going to convince you of anything. It would be an interesting stat if it was real, I was just wondering.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't need to convince anyone. If you don't think I'm right it's up to you to show me.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


How do you apply for the research team that get's free beer? :laughing:

I want to be part of the statistical, analytical test crash dummies.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Agility said:


> Do you think it's a fact or can you prove it's a fact? I'm going to stop thinking about it if it's just something you thought up. Otherwise, I'm interested.
> 
> Edit: were you being sarcastic?


Better yet shoot heroin everyday for thirty days enough to get a good high. and quit cold turkey and let me know how that works for you. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> I stand by this statement as fact.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Of course you do. You're one of those guys who thinks every idea you have is fact. Yet, you'll never be able to test your theory, therefore you can't call it a fact.

And let me get ahead of you on your typical response of "you don't know me." You are correct, I don't.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Gary H said:


> I had friends but I made the mistake of having them work for me. I'm more of a loner anyway, but thanks anyway. I do understand where you are coming from. It's cool.
> 
> I know I am odd. How can a person function without friends. I have a lot of real people I talk to and do go out to the dances and get togethers that I get invited to. Attend a lot of social events for children's fund risers. So what I am saying is I don't live as a hermit . Lol.
> 
> ...


Why do you have 2,800 some odd posts? :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> Of course you do. You're one of those guys who thinks every idea you have is fact. Yet, you'll never be able to test your theory, therefore you can't call it a fact.


You know nothing about me. As much as you think you do, you don't.

If I'm wrong you should be able to show me. When it's just an idea I will tell you. You know nothing of my life experiences. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

jaydee said:


> Can we just ley it go. ?


Why are you on a blog site if you want no debate?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> Of course you do. You're one of those guys who thinks every idea you have is fact. Yet, you'll never be able to test your theory, therefore you can't call it a fact.
> 
> And let me get ahead of you on your typical response of "you don't know me." You are correct, I don't.


How old are you Eric?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Avenge, It may be "normal" for one that behaves as you do to wonder why and how the drug free think. Just another conflict between how you see the world and how it really is.... Cognitive dissonance worsen by chronic heavy drug use maybe?

Mothers and Fathers that abort their babies aren't likely to be Grandparents, Get over it, the behavior is self punishing, kind of like heavy D___ Use..... Reality bites eh?


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Gary H said:


> I had friends but I made the mistake of having them work for me. I'm more of a loner anyway, but thanks anyway. I do understand where you are coming from. It's cool.
> 
> I know I am odd. How can a person function without friends. I have a lot of real people I talk to and do go out to the dances and get togethers that I get invited to. Attend a lot of social events for children's fund risers. So what I am saying is I don't live as a hermit . Lol. Just don't feel the need to engage with people .


That's cool. To each their own. And it sounds like you do get out and mingle. I feel like I have plenty of friends but I can go months without hanging out with them. It's all about family now. And then there is the threads here. But if I find myself hanging out in threads where all I'm doing is arguing, I have to do a reality check and ask myself if I could be spending my time in a more positive way. Or else when I get off, I feel like kicking the dog.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Mothers and Fathers that abort their babies aren't likely to be Grandparents, Get over it, the behavior is self punishing, kind of like heavy D___ Use..... Reality bites eh?


You guys should start another thread being this is entirely a whole different subject. Just sayin' :whistling


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Agility said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think it's a fact or can you prove it's a fact? I'm going to stop thinking about it if it's just something you thought up. Otherwise, I'm interested.
> ...


Are you being mean? I don't get it. Why the heroin?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> You know nothing about me. As much as you think you do, you don't.
> 
> If I'm wrong you should be able to show me. When it's just an idea I will tell you. You know nothing of my life experiences.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


The burden of proof falls on the person making the claim. What you have put forth is called "appeal to ignorance." You often do this around here.

And as I already said, I knew what your response to my statement was going to be. You are like many who don't seek to have a discussion at all. You talk at people not to people. You don't care about any point of view besides your own. You think you're always right.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> How old are you Eric?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I'm just shy of 32. So go ahead and tell me how much smarter you are than me because you were already in your twenties when I was born. Doesn't bother me.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Agility said:


> Are you being mean? I don't get it. Why the heroin?


Californiadecks is just a little awkward with his words sometimes. :laughing:


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Kevin M. said:


> Why do you have 2,800 some odd posts? :laughing:


Dang that many? My phone dosnt show post count or atlesst I figured where the total is. 

I rarely get into these discussions. I'm more of a poster in the tool and carpentry threads.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Reg said:


> That's cool. To each their own. And it sounds like you do get out and mingle.
> 
> 
> > I feel like I have plenty of friends but I can go months without hanging out with them. It's all about family now
> ...


I have the opposite problem. I can go years without hanging out with my weird family, but I have to see my friends everyday. :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> The burden of proof falls on the person making the claim. What you have put forth is called "appeal to ignorance." You often do this around here.
> 
> And as I already said, I knew what your response to my statement was going to be. You are like many who don't seek to have a discussion at all. You talk at people not to people. You don't care about any point of view besides your own. You think you're always right.


I really don't give a chit what you think. You feel the need to make this personal? Let me tell you if your going to read my posts you will have to live with the way I am, I'm most certainly not changing anytime soon. Who the hell posts with the thought they are wrong. I think most people think what they say is right. Or do you think the things you say are wrong. That doesn't make sense.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Reg If you draw a Venn diagram with those who think a little dope everyday doesn't hurt them or society, it has a large overlap with those that don't think aborting their babies/fetuses should be a very very rare event in the course of the average human lifetime.

Crazy people seem to be globally crazy usually...


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

EricBrancard said:


> I'm just shy of 32.


I wish I was 32 again.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> I really don't give a chit what you think. You feel the need to make this personal? Let me tell you if your going to read my posts you will have to live with the way I am, I'm most certainly not changing anytime soon. Who the hell posts with the thought they are wrong. I think most people think what they say is right. Or do you think the things you say are wrong. That doesn't make sense.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Notice not all people assert that everything they say is a fact. There lies the difference. This really isn't personal to me, but there tends to be quite a lack of civility from certain posters here towards others that may have different beliefs.

Let me add that this no way applies to anything construction related on this site where I believe you are a true professional. Like I said, it's definitely not personal.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Gary H said:


> I wish I was 32 again.


It's the age where you start to realize that youth is wasted on the young :laughing:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Kevin M. said:


> I have the opposite problem. I can go years without hanging out with my weird family, but I have to see my friends everyday. :laughing:


Ha! I used to be that way but now my family is my kids and husband. They wouldn't go for that! Funny Kevin. Is there such a thing as a family that isn't weird?


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> I really don't give a chit what you think. You feel the need to make this personal? Let me tell you if your going to read my posts you will have to live with the way I am, I'm most certainly not changing anytime soon. Who the hell posts with the thought they are wrong. I think most people think what they say is right. Or do you think the things you say are wrong. That doesn't make sense. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I'd like to think that I'm always at least open to the fact that I might be wrong. Otherwise, what's the point?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> I'm just shy of 32. So go ahead and tell me how much smarter you are than me because you were already in your twenties when I was born. Doesn't bother me.


I'm thirty one and a half. : laughing:

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I'm thirty one and a half. : laughing:
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I guess our opinion and views dont count until we are old


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> Notice not all people assert that everything they say is a fact. There lies the difference. This really isn't personal to me, but there tends to be quite a lack of civility from certain posters here towards others that may have different beliefs.
> 
> Let me add that this no way applies to anything construction related on this site where I believe you are a true professional. Like I said, it's definitely not personal.


I quite often use the IMO you just selectively dont want to see it or mention it. It would not work well with your personal attack on me.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Reg If you draw a Venn diagram with those who think a little dope everyday doesn't hurt them or society, it has a large overlap with those that don't think aborting their babies/fetuses should be a very very rare event in the course of the average human lifetime.
> 
> Crazy people seem to be globally crazy usually...


Growing up catholic and having parents who were Roman catholics, I'm so over that debate. It makes me crazy. It seems like all the folks that are anti abortion are also anti sex education. (abstinence is NOT sex ed)

It makes no sense. But, we really ought to start another thread because I have a feeling you have much to say about this and it's never good to hi-jack ones thread.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Reg said:


> Ha! I used to be that way but now my family is my kids and husband. They wouldn't go for that! Funny Kevin.
> 
> 
> > Is there such a thing as a family that isn't weird
> ...


The Jetson's. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Back on topic. 

I like the freedom for companies to deny employment to druggies. Evidently the liabilities involved in having stoners as employees is enough of a risk that the laws and regulations were enacted. 

Kinda telling that after ever accident that OSHA has to investigate, the people involved are all piss tested. 

Sooooooo, druggies must make a work place more dangerous, huh?

http://dfaf.org/assets/docs/What_to_say_about_marijuana_and_the_workplace.pdf


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Gary H said:


> I wish I was 32 again.


When I was 32, I was at the same intellectual level as Eric when he was 14. :laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

EricBrancard said:


> Notice not all people assert that everything they say is a fact. There lies the difference. This really isn't personal to me, but there tends to be quite a lack of civility from certain posters here towards others that may have different beliefs.
> 
> Let me add that this no way applies to anything construction related on this site where I believe you are a true professional. Like I said, it's definitely not personal.


It's not worth the effort. The group you refer to is so sure that what they think about something is a fact. No room for discussion. They say it and thats it, the end of it.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Everybody is under the age of 35? Damn I feel old.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

JT Wood said:


> ...
> 
> He said that it was people with weak minds, like the people he grew up with. He didn't say it was all drinkers/smokers


Jt, you ought to send this Sesame St. image to the guys down in the basement.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

All right. So far we got...Pot, Heroin, Coke, Meth, Abortions, Druggies, Non-Druggies, Alky's, and Archy's. Plus a few Addict's and Non-Addict's.

I think the Alien's aren't being well represented in this thread. Legal or illegal (did they register that spaceship with the proper government agency before they landed?), they need someone to stand up for them. 

JM2C


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> There's a big difference between an alcoholic and a drug addict. You can give 100 people enough heroin each day to get them high for 30 days and all 100 will be drug addicts at the end of the 30 days.
> 
> You give 100 people enough Alcohol to get them drunk for thirty days and none will come out an alcoholic because of the 30 days drinking.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk





Californiadecks said:


> I stand by this statement as fact.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk





Californiadecks said:


> I don't need to convince anyone. If you don't think I'm right it's up to you to show me.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk





Californiadecks said:


> You know nothing about me. As much as you think you do, you don't.
> 
> If I'm wrong you should be able to show me. When it's just an idea I will tell you. You know nothing of my life experiences.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk





Californiadecks said:


> I really don't give a chit what you think. You feel the need to make this personal? Let me tell you if your going to read my posts you will have to live with the way I am, I'm most certainly not changing anytime soon. Who the hell posts with the thought they are wrong. I think most people think what they say is right. Or do you think the things you say are wrong. That doesn't make sense.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk





Californiadecks said:


> I quite often use the IMO you just selectively dont want to see it or mention it. It would not work well with your personal attack on me.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



I didn't find one single IMO. 

You said what you said is a fact. Did you form a hypothesis, perform tests with control groups, analyze the evidence and form a theory, or is it just fact because you think it is? 

Simple question.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Crazy people seem to be globally crazy usually...


I have to 100% agree with that :clap:


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Agility said:


> Wallmaxx, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have no personal experience with marijuana. I'm guessing that's probably true for a lot of the vehement naysayers.
> 
> I'm not saying you have to have tried it to know that it's a no-go on the job. But maybe you have to have tried it to understand that a hammer doesn't become a gun in the hands of someone who smoked a joint over the weekend.




I have a lot of experience smoking dope. Hung out with a lot of dopers over the years, still do for that matter, but the difference today, is they're mostly clean, or trying to get clean.

Of all the dopers I've known in the last 30+ year, most are worthless, dead, or got their chit together & are now leading productive lives.

Wallmaxx is spot on with most of what he's typing from my perspective & experience with dope & dopers.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Reg said:


> So what would you feel about a vet if he pulled a spliff from his pocket and lit it up. Would you be disgusted? Would you call him/her a druggy to their face? Or a pothead?


Were those my only options?


...or did you just ASSume I'd only behave in that manner?

Would be easier to imagine you being an adult, if you left out the inferences.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> The moral of my analogy is you could soak Cali in milk for the rest of his life but I don't think it's gonna absorb any. :whistling


Couldn't just let it stand as it was, eh? Yeah, well, you just blew it. I can do my own Clift's Notes, thank you very much. 

My observation is that hardening of the personality is universal.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

SmallTownGuy said:


> pkb


specifics. 

And you pulled the politicians answer about your thoughts on vets that smoke herb.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Venge @282 You claimed the heavy drug use.....
> 
> Projection perhaps???
> 
> ...


Well, if nothing it's fun to look up the obscure literary references you post up, Forth.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Reg said:


> specifics.
> 
> And you pulled the politicians answer about your thoughts on vets that smoke herb.


So tell me Reg, what ARE my thoughts on vets smoking herb?


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

SmallTownGuy said:


> So tell me Reg, what ARE my thoughts on vets smoking herb?


I understand this is a tough question for you.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Reg said:


> I understand this is a tough question for you.


Really? When did I say that?


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Really? When did I say that?


Okay, I just chalk that up to "I can't" from you and I'll let this one rest.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

pinwheel said:


> I have a lot of experience smoking dope. Hung out with a lot of dopers over the years, still do for that matter, but the difference today, is they're mostly clean, or trying to get clean.
> 
> Of all the dopers I've known in the last 30+ year, most are worthless, dead, or got their chit together & are now leading productive lives.
> 
> Wallmaxx is spot on with most of what he's typing from my perspective & experience with dope & dopers.


I've said already but it depends on the individual. I know people from all walks of life that use pot, doctors, lawyers, cops, teachers, professors, business owners and they all lead productive lives.

Stupid seems to run rampant these days. It's no different than drinking responsibly, although the more you drink the worse you get that's not the case with pot. Smoking an ounce won't get me any higher than smoking one joint. 

During my teenage years we all did drugs but I knew who not to hang with. Those people ended up dead or in jail but it had nothing to do with pot, they were idiots to begin with.

The true "druggies" today are those who use meth and heroin, the ones who shoot up for a better, faster high. Those are the druggies not the pot smokers. Pot is the only substance that isn't addictive.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

SmallTownGuy said:


> pkb[/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> The moral of my analogy is you could soak Cali in milk for the rest of his life but I don't think it's gonna absorb any. :whistling


The same could be said for your unwillingness to change. I've already lived through the drugs and the alcohol. Im perfectly ok with not absorbing that chit ever again. And you really spun that didn't you. You go on believing people learn less as they get older. That's just stupid.


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

...


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

avenge said:


> I've said already but it depends on the individual. I know people from all walks of life that use pot, doctors, lawyers, cops, teachers, professors, business owners and they all lead productive lives.


I'm to the point where I'm sure Pinwheel and the rest already know this. I think they just like the good fight. It's a interesting faction of folks and I wonder if there is some sort of parallels with their upbringing. And I wonder if there is parallels with us, who don't have a problem with toking. It would be kind of fun to explore.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> I'm to the point where I'm sure Pinwheel and the rest already know this. I think they just like the good fight. It's a interesting faction of folks and I wonder if there is some sort of parallels with their upbringing. And I wonder if there is parallels with us, who don't have a problem with toking. It would be kind of fun to explore.


Did you ever for once think it might be experiences that make us who we are? I'll bet I've smoked twice as much dope as you in my life time. (Just a hunch :laughing: ) I'm well aware of is affects. I used to smoke it from breakfast until I went to bed at night for at least 18 years everyday unless we were out. 

There was a huge pot shortage in the c 1980's we started getting bricks of hash that came from Afghanistan. They had a stamp on them with two AK-47's in a cross pattern and it said smoke Russia away. Not that that has anything to do with anything, but I thought I would tell you the story. I was in my early 20's and we thought we were doing our part to support our country in the cold war agsinst the Russians. :laughing:

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> Did you ever for once think it might be experiences that make us who we are? I'll bet I've smoked twice as much dope as you in my life time. (Just a hunch :laughing: ) I'm well aware of is affects. I used to smoke it from breakfast until I went to bed at night for at least 18 years everyday unless we were out.


Oh no, get ready for Fourthgeneration to call you a heavy drug user and the onslaught of quotes.:laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

avenge said:


> Oh no, get ready for Fourthgeneration to call you a heavy drug user and the onslaught of quotes.:laughing:


If I could get an absolute assurance that meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. Would never become legal, I would be ok with pot being legal. That's just my personal views and inners right I'm not changing anytime soon, no matter how much "milk" you roll me in. :laughing:

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Did you ever for once think it might be experiences that make us who we are? I'll bet I've smoked twice as much dope as you in my life time. (Just a hunch :laughing: ) I'm well aware of is affects. I used to smoke it from breakfast until I went to bed at night for at least 18 years everyday unless we were out.
> 
> There was a huge pot shortage in the c 1980's we started getting bricks of hash that came from Afghanistan. They had a stamp on them with two AK-47's in a cross pattern and it said smoke Russia away. Not that that has anything to do with anything, but I thought I would tell you the story. I was in my early 20's and we thought we were doing our part to support our country in the cold war agsinst the Russians. :laughing:
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


I remember you talking about this in an earlier thread Mike. You ought to post some pics of those early days. I've never smoked straight hash and I get the feeling it would make me want to sit and drool and do nothing. Especially Afghanistani hash. I'm I right? Weed makes me hyper. It makes me want to climb a mountain. Quite the opposite I'm thinking.

But I'm talking about the folks that don't, never have and are indefatigably against. If there are correlations when it comes to their past.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> The same could be said for your unwillingness to change. I've already lived through the drugs and the alcohol. Im perfectly ok with not absorbing that chit ever again. And you really spun that didn't you. You go on believing people learn less as they get older. That's just stupid.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Damn right the older I get the less change I like!

The older you get the more your desire to learn wanes. You absolutely learn less as you get older.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> If I could get an absolute assurance that meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. Would never become legal, I would be ok with pot being legal. That's just my personal views and inners right I'm not changing anytime soon, no matter how much "milk" you roll me in. :laughing:
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


Eric's whole thing about making it all legal is interesting to me. I don't have a strong opinion formed yet as I think some of his points are good but the mom in me automatically thinks it's a terrible idea. I have to explore it more. It's a libertarian way of thinking and Im not a libertarian despite my porcupine avatar.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> If I could get an absolute assurance that meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. Would never become legal, I would be ok with pot being legal. That's just my personal views and inners right I'm not changing anytime soon, no matter how much "milk" you roll me in. :laughing:
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


I think it should all be legal, it being illegal didn't stop ya from burning one down now did it?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Damn right the older I get the less change I like!
> 
> The older you get the more your desire to learn wanes. You absolutely learn less as you get older.


So you don't think you know more now then when you were three? That doesn't make sense. You may Learn slower but your knowledge doesn't decrease. 

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Reg said:


> Okay, I just chalk that up to "I can't" from you and I'll let this one rest.


No. We'll chalk it up to you inferring and using innuendo, and when called out on it, not having a dambned thing adult to say.

Just remember, YOU were the one who said my views on vets using herb were the same as a pols.

Name calling through innuendo and association is still - name calling.

You may be practiced at it - it is nonetheless not admirable.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> So you don't think you know more now then when you were three? That doesn't make sense. You may Learn slower but your knowledge doesn't decrease.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


Yes that was the basis of the cookie dough analogy.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> Damn right the older I get the less change I like!
> 
> The older you get the more your desire to learn wanes. You absolutely learn less as you get older.


I'm not sure about that. Is that a fact inner? 

And I think it's important we fight to stay open minded especially as we get older. You know, that whole analogy of the bendy tree and the stiff tree.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Reg said:


> Eric's whole thing about making it all legal is interesting to me. I don't have a strong opinion formed yet as I think some of his points are good but the mom in me automatically thinks it's a terrible idea. I have to explore it more. It's a libertarian way of thinking and Im not a libertarian despite my porcupine avatar.


So your only ok with legalizing your drug of choice? Couldn't everything you argue for to make/keep pot legal be applied to the meth fiends as well? 

You say its the mother in you? Maybe another mother feels the same as you do but their line they don't want to cross is all dope. Why is your line the determining factor? 

My question here is why are you even on the fence? 


Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Yes that was the basis of the cookie dough analogy.


You still want to use that? :laughing:

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

SmallTownGuy said:


> No. We'll chalk it up to you inferring and using innuendo, and when called out on it, not having a dambned thing adult to say.
> 
> Just remember, YOU were the one who said my views on vets using herb were the same as a pols.


references man!

And you think saying, " oh, let's pull the red white and blue in to it" is calling me out? :laughing:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

californiadecks said:


> so your only ok with legalizing your drug of choice? Couldn't everything you argue for to make/keep pot legal be applied to the meth fiends as well?
> 
> You say its the mother in you? Maybe another mother feels the same as you do but their line they don't want to cross is all dope. Why is your line the determining factor?
> 
> ...


because it's harmless medicine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> I think it should all be legal, it being illegal didn't stop ya from burning one down now did it?


Running red lights is illegal but it doesnt stop people from running them. So why have any laws, none of them stop people from breaking them? 

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Running red lights is illegal but it doesnt stop people from running them. So why have any laws, none of them stop people from breaking them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


We have the laws so we can punish those who break them........or fine them. Look how many laws are siny there for revenue generation under the guise of public safety. 

But, no laws? That would make things interesting.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Reg said:


> Eric's whole thing about making it all legal is interesting to me. I don't have a strong opinion formed yet as I think some of his points are good but the mom in me automatically thinks it's a terrible idea. I have to explore it more. It's a libertarian way of thinking and Im not a libertarian despite my porcupine avatar.


Reg, I think you would find that most of my political views wouldn't be exactly in line with what you'd expect when compared to those who want to legalize drugs.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

If alcohol is legal, pot should be legal, easily. Meth, heroin, cocaine, etc shouldn't even be in this thread those are life destroying, addictive drugs which shouldn't and will never be legal.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> Reg, I think you would find that most of my political views wouldn't be exactly in line with what you'd expect when compared to those who want to legalize drugs.


go on.:tooth:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> We have the laws so we can punish those who break them........or fine them. Look how many laws are siny there for revenue generation under the guise of public safety.
> 
> But, no laws? That would make things interesting.



Erik, quick off topic question but do you feel roads should be privatized?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Reg said:


> go on.:tooth:


I'm a huge second amendment supporter. I've noticed most people in the legalize drugs crowd don't feel the same way about guns and vice versa.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Reg said:


> Erik, quick off topic question but do you feel roads should be privatized?


I've heard arguments from both sides of the issue. I'm indifferent to it.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> I'm a huge second amendment supporter. I've noticed most people in the legalize drugs crowd don't feel the same way about guns and vice versa.


I refuse to bring up the gun issue here for obvious reasons but I would say I agree with you here. Pot smokers are all about make love, not war type folks. Well, many anyway.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Reg said:


> I refuse to bring up the gun issue here for obvious reasons but I would say I agree with you here. Pot smokers are all about make love, not war type folks. Well, many anyway.


Si vis pacem, para bellum


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Even the semi- rational active stoners and heavy drinkers DON'T carry guns while imbibing, Just one more reason to stay clean and sober.....

Drug tests for CCW permits? maybe. The weak and ill need arms more than anyone.

Back to OP, Drug tests if required, ought to be taken system wide, Management, Insurance execs, Safety inspectors (OSHA etc...) Union stewards, Designers--This would thin the herd-- Salespeople, owners?


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Wouldn't it be better to not want to feel high and get everything you need to feel good by being sober? Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Yes, and it would be better if we didn't need Advil or sleep medications or heart burn pills or if nails exploded into gold when you hit them just right. 

Edit: I do get what I need to feel good by being sober, I just don't see how that argument applies here.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Wouldn't it be better to not want to feel high and get everything you need to feel good by being sober?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I haven't had a drink in over a year. I have two weddings to go to this summer that I would love to be drunk for :laughing:

I get sick from drinking now, so I stopped. Oh well.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> I haven't had a drink in over a year. I have two weddings to go to this summer that I would love to be drunk for :laughing:
> 
> I get sick from drinking now, so I stopped. Oh well.


You know there are times I would love to have a glass of wine at dinner with my wife, but I screwed that up for myself. It's just not worth the risk. I never want to go back to that place I once was in life. I envy those who can drink normally, im just not one of them.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

this is klassic brah

wish I checked in a week ago, I does know alot about weed/drug/alcohol workmens comp, risk managment, osha, and regulation when it comes to the work place mostly thanks to my father

since this thread is totally like trashed at this point, there is no reason to be serious 

so like the town I live in has less than 10k people in the "metro" area, weed was legalized here maybe 5 years ago, one of the first towns in the country to decriminalize recreational use. 

We have 5 weed stores for our little town of 10,000 on the way home today I swung in bought a doobie for $7.50 (locals discount brah) smoked it, now I'm writing on contractor talk. 

I'll take two more puffs and did my yoga routine for the next 45 min. After that I will meditate for 15 mins and think about good health fortune and over all postive engery . 

btw I run a very successful remodeling company am in excellent health for a 40yr old and I love to slay mtns in my free time marriage kids nice cars and all that is for someone else, weed though


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

fast fred said:


> this is klassic brah
> 
> wish I checked in a week ago, I does know alot about weed/drug/alcohol workmens comp, risk managment, osha, and regulation when it comes to the work place mostly thanks to my father
> 
> ...


you'll have to join me in a future thread titled... Is my town going to hell because of legalization? Maybe a bit too long of a title.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

wallmaxx said:


> I appreciate your honest commitment to your beliefs. With no God you are free from moral obligations. The animal kingdom rewards survival of the fittest. Compassion is weakness and often a vulnerability. So at what age did your kids start toking?


If you need to believe in god for moral beliefs then you are weak in every way. You've been brainwashed in believing something that hasn't even been proven to exist. 

You and Fourthgeneration are no different than a person who drops acid, fills the room with blacklights and posters and goes off in fantasy land. There's nothing there that's real to back up your beliefs. It's all in your little mind.

And you're disgusting for insinuating that my children grew up without any morals and are some POS kids. You can stick that comment straight up your ass.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

...... This whole thread makes me think...


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

fast fred said:


> this is klassic brah
> 
> wish I checked in a week ago, I does know alot about weed/drug/alcohol workmens comp, risk managment, osha, and regulation when it comes to the work place mostly thanks to my father
> 
> ...


I thought the recreational use was a recent law??


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> You know there are times I would love to have a glass of wine at dinner with my wife, but I screwed that up for myself. It's just not worth the risk. I never want to go back to that place I once was in life. I envy those who can drink normally, im just not one of them.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Thank you! :thumbsup:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Kevin M. said:


> I thought the recreational use was a recent law??


Depends where yer at. Ann Arbor decriminalized in 1972.
Now, I didn't say they made it legal - they just turned infractions into fines like for illegal parking.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

blacktop said:


> Thank you! :thumbsup:


Your very welcome, anytime Blacktop.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Agility said:


> Yes, and it would be better if we didn't need Advil or sleep medications or heart burn pills or if nails exploded into gold when you hit them just right.
> 
> Edit: I do get what I need to feel good by being sober, I just don't see how that argument applies here.


Why did it need to be an argument?How does anything that has been said for the last 16 pages apply to the original topic.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

mrcharles said:


> Some unions still do not allow pre hire drug screening.... Most do, but in Chicago you cannot pre hire test an Iron Worker. All other locals you can, just not iron workers...... They must need drugs


Yeah, Why would an Iron worker need to be sober?.








:laughing:


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> You know there are times I would love to have a glass of wine at dinner with my wife, but I screwed that up for myself. It's just not worth the risk. I never want to go back to that place I once was in life. I envy those who can drink normally, im just not one of them.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


My grandfather quit drinking before I was born. Hasn't touched a drop in over 30 years. His reason is probably similar to yours. Mine is purely a health thing for now.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> My grandfather quit drinking before I was born. Hasn't touched a drop in over 30 years. His reason is probably similar to yours. Mine is purely a health thing for now.


Im not crying victim here by all means, but when I was 9 years old my older brother got me drunk for the first time. He thought it was funny. I continued to drink with him all through my growing up years because I thought it was cool. Alcohol took control of my life at a very young age. Sadly I haven't talked to my brother since getting sober almost 17 years ago. He's real bad right now. I think he's going to die from it. 

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

avenge said:


> If you need to believe in god for moral beliefs then you are weak in every way. You've been brainwashed in believing something that hasn't even been proven to exist. You and Fourthgeneration are no different than a person who drops acid, fills the room with blacklights and posters and goes off in fantasy land. There's nothing there that's real to back up your beliefs. It's all in your little mind. And you're disgusting for insinuating that my children grew up without any morals and are some POS kids. You can stick that comment straight up your ass.


Such anger and hatred. 

If you think dope is good....then why not for your kids? Legit question. Why the double standard? 

You seem to read a lot of error into what I actually post. You'll have to show me where I said that your kids grew up without any morals? I don't recall that. You wouldn't be high when you're posting here would you?

If weed is good enough for you.......I ASKED HOW YOUNG YOUR KIDS WERE WHEN ITS OKAY FOR THEM. Oh......so you're saying it's NOT okay for them now? Why's that?

You bore me hater boy. Ya got anything else you want to piss and moan about as an excuse to do drugs?


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

FYI avenge, I'm an Agnostic...... Oh......

I'm the Prime Mover in my lifestory... put that in your bong and burn away.

Who is running your life, Mr THC, your wife, Boss, Generation old grudges?


I use the 3 thousand years of Western theology as the foundation of my moral thinking, mostly because I too lazy to reinvent the moral basics or ignore the work of millions of man/women years on righteous behavior, Similar to my Masonry thinking, hopefully I know more than most pyramid builders or middle ages free Masons.... but I don't waste time learning how to dry stack field stones for livestock enclosures... 

I can't see how keeping any drug abusers on payroll would ever pay unless they had some freakish talent in spite of the intoxication. And than the drama probably would cost more then they netted...


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> FYI avenge, I'm an Agnostic...... Oh......
> 
> I'm the Prime Mover in my lifestory... put that in your bong and burn away.
> 
> ...


This is just starting to sound silly. It's like how else can you say the same thing to make it sound like a fresh insult?


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

wallmaxx said:


> I would, 'cause I am one. Are you?
> 
> People who have no standards bother me. And again, your hypothetical "vet" could tell me to pound sand. It's all words and opinion. Water off a ducks back.


Me a vet? No. So you would call a vet a druggy, stoner, pothead because you served and you feel qualified? Hmmmm....weird and not very respectful.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

wallmaxx said:


> So if you like life with a lesser social contract like in a second or third world nation...move.


you need to re read the post.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

My Opinions, created by decades of experience isn't an insult, But I think an accurate statement of reality.

Maybe your anger at me could be a symptom of a problem or a state of dis-ease?

Some stranger suggests the possibility I am wasting my life and sponging/under-performing off society/work, I'd check it out... 

If you were truly squared away, you wouldn't still be posting, in my humble opinion.

If I was insulting you, wouldn't the moderators notice? Paranoia?


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> My Opinions, created by decades of experience isn't an insult, But I think an accurate statement of reality.
> 
> Maybe your anger at me could be a symptom of a problem or a state of dis-ease?
> 
> ...


Hahaha! So what does that last statement say for you! Too funny. And I think your decades of experience just make you a good insulter.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

You win Reg, 

Watch out for the Bears that like smoked meat.....:laughing:

If a bear ate a stoner, would he get the munchies???fftopic:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

eddy051 said:


> I hate alcohol, I hate cigarettes, and I watched my fathers demise growing up due to overzealous doctors prescribing pain pill after pain pill for his torn rotator cuff, which lead to his addiction.


I dislike the pharmaceutical companies pushing it on the doctors who then push it on their patients. People trust their doctors and to find out they suggested you go on the pills thinking you need them when in reality they got swayed by the pharm rep who promised the doc a golf vacation at club med. Just so wrong. 

How is he after the stroke?


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Fouthgeneration said:


> You win Reg,
> 
> Watch out for the Bears that like smoked meat.....:laughing:
> 
> If a bear ate a stoner, would he get the munchies???fftopic:


Ha. I take that back. You're not that good of an insulter.


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Im not crying victim here by all means, but when I was 9 years old my older brother got me drunk for the first time. He thought it was funny. I continued to drink with him all through my growing up years because I thought it was cool. Alcohol took control of my life at a very young age. Sadly I haven't talked to my brother since getting sober almost 17 years ago. He's real bad right now. I think he's going to die from it. Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


I'm really sorry to hear that, Mike. I can't imagine what it would be like to watch my brother go through that. Substance dependency runs pretty thick in my blood as well. Needless to say, I'm not a drinker anymore.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Running red lights is illegal but it doesnt stop people from running them. So why have any laws, none of them stop people from breaking them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


Absolutely they don't, a law just allows the government to punish a person for an action, no law stops anyone from doing anything.

But I'm not sure if you noticed this, but most people still stop at red lights despite the fact there is no one around to punish them.

If pot were legal tomorrow I still wouldn't touch the stuff, but there would be less tax dollars spent on hunting down pot heads.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Im not crying victim here by all means, but when I was 9 years old my older brother got me drunk for the first time. He thought it was funny. I continued to drink with him all through my growing up years because I thought it was cool. Alcohol took control of my life at a very young age. Sadly I haven't talked to my brother since getting sober almost 17 years ago. He's real bad right now. I think he's going to die from it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


Sorry to hear. My uncle passed a few years ago. Same sort of circumstances.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Absolutely they don't, *a law just allows the government to punish a person for an action*, no law stops anyone from doing anything.


Well, that's just too simplistic an answer.

The stop light law says that "we" have agreed on an acceptable code of conduct regarding traffic.

Yes, "the government" can exact a fine etc.; it is secondary to the* intent* of the law.

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, there are social/moral contracts - they exist in all societies - just as there are in our own, individual households.


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

wallmaxx said:


> Such anger and hatred.
> 
> If you think dope is good....then why not for your kids? Legit question. Why the double standard?
> 
> ...


Wow, really, Mike?

Are you just asking this to be argumentative or are you really that obtuse?

Do you drink coffee? Do you give it to your 4 year old? Why not?

How about 4 or 5 redbulls?


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

This thread seems to have degenerated into insinuated attacks and emotional arguments. 

I will give it another couple hours to see if it can come back to the OP, which was about drug testing in the legalized marijuana world, not the righteousness of non druggies vs the immorality of dopers, before I toss it.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

shanekw1 said:


> Wow, really, Mike? Are you just asking this to be argumentative or are you really that obtuse? Do you drink coffee? Do you give it to your 4 year old? Why not? How about 4 or 5 redbulls?


If it's good enough for him.....why does it become not good for others.

Not a bad question....just a difficult one to honestly answer. 

As to your analogy, if caffeine is harmful to kids then it's harmful to adults. Hmmm, and I'm obtuse. Way to go name caller moderator. Quite unCanadian of you.


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Why don't kids vote or have driver's licenses, or go to the casino? Why don't people put beer on their kids' cheerios?

The simple, honest answer is that yes, many things in life are harmful and society in general does not give these things to children until they have reached an age and maturity level where they are reasonably able to make informed decisions for themselves. 

So, yes, IMO your argument about why a person does not give pot to their children is, indeed, obtuse.

And pay no attention to the colour of my screen name. I am just a guy, like you, and I hope my ideas would have merit due to their composition and not some green letters.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

wallmaxx said:


> If it's good enough for him.....why does it become not good for others.
> 
> Not a bad question....just a difficult one to honestly answer.
> 
> As to your analogy, if caffeine is harmful to kids then it's harmful to adults. Hmmm, and I'm obtuse. Way to go name caller moderator. Quite unCanadian of you.


Throw your car keys to a 10 year old and just tell him to be back before dark. I mean, adults can drive a car, why not a kid? We can take these "what's good for one isn't good for another" arguments to extremes all day long.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

kevjob said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7


Well that was interesting. Thanks. Looking forward to finding out more on this.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Absolutely they don't, a law just allows the government to punish a person for an action, no law stops anyone from doing anything.
> 
> But I'm not sure if you noticed this, but most people still stop at red lights despite the fact there is no one around to punish them.
> 
> If pot were legal tomorrow I still wouldn't touch the stuff, but there would be less tax dollars spent on hunting down pot heads.


I can gauranteed you more people would run red lights if it was legal. 

If you made it just legal to run red lights for adults Id bet my left nut more kids would run them then normal. After all they can't tell how old I really am. 
Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Reg said:


> Well that was interesting. Thanks. Looking forward to finding out more on this.


There are reports every 5 years or so this being the latest. 

Bill Hicks take on our war on drugs, enjoy!


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

wallmaxx said:


> Such anger and hatred.
> 
> If you think dope is good....then why not for your kids? Legit question. Why the double standard?
> 
> ...





Fouthgeneration said:


> FYI avenge, I'm an Agnostic...... Oh......
> 
> I'm the Prime Mover in my lifestory... put that in your bong and burn away.
> 
> ...


Let's set this straight, I rarely use pot for the last 15 years, I rarely drink, I don't use any prescription drugs. My wife doesn't use any. So while my mind isn't under the influence of anything yours are under the influence of something not even real.

I don't have a double standard, never said it isn't wasn't okay for my kids to smoke pot. But I had no influence on that, they never knew I smoked.

I run my own life, it's not controlled by religion. I take care of everything in my household. I'm far from a boy, I'm 55 years old. Am I angry? No disgusted with people who bring religion into every conversation, people who bring statements with no facts. 

If there was one thing I could wipe off this earth it would be religion and those who push their religious beliefs cause more problems than help.

So if you're so religious again why did god put pot on earth? Do you visit doctors or hospitals? They're based on science and fact. Religion is a crock of **** and you're all hypocrites.

So while druggies and alcoholics have something real for their excuse, what's yours?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Yes.
> 
> And that right there is the crux of what the OP was getting at in post #1.


Look at the number of your last post :laughing:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

EricBrancard said:


> Look at the number of your last post :laughing:


:thumbsup:

I hope it's not how decisions go for ya'll at work...
:no::no:


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> I hope it's not how decisions go for ya'll at work...
> :no::no:


I don't smoke or drink. I wouldn't mind being able to drink again, but not at the expense of getting very sick from even one beer.

Currently my body is a temple.......a temple that gets flooded with Monster energy drinks several times a day :clap:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

blacktop said:


> I smoked weed heavy for 14 years ..When I say heavy ! I mean 1 oz. a week [5 day week] I quit 14 years ago [kids] I haven't touched It since and try my best to stay away from those who do. Not that I look down on the people who smoke the con...I don't want that life style again. Hell !!! even the dealers told me I smoked too much!!!!:laughing:


That's another thing, you probably weren't any higher than a person who smoked half that much. People seem to think the more you smoke the higher you get which just isn't true. All it does is increase the amount it takes for you get higher.



Texas Wax said:


> What did the chemical inhibit or modify in your behavior you couldn't have done yourself without it?
> 
> I ask because I learned many times over, the hard ways, to answer that question...
> 
> Well if it works for you that's your choice. Not trying to change you, was just saying what I know and believe to be generally true. You are probably the exception that proves the rule and a responsible user.


That's a fair question and I guess what it did for me was break the monotony of daily repetitive tasks. It also may given me the desire for excellence and attention to detail. That may sound like bull but true.

I'm beginning to believe I may be part of an exception but certainly not the only one. I also have never caused an accident, ran red lights, etc. Other than fender benders caused by people not paying attention and not under the influence I've actually never been in a car accident at all. And I haven't had a ticket in probably 35 years.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Our economy is motivated by the more and harder you work the more you make. The libs call it greed.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


No. I call that ambition or motivation. 

Here is what my parents and teachers taught me the word greed means. 

Greed (Latin, avaritia), also known as avarice, cupidity or covetousness, is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

blacktop said:


> I smoked weed heavy for 14 years ..When I say heavy ! I mean 1 oz. a week [5 day week] I quit 14 years ago [kids] I haven't touched It since and try my best to stay away from those who do. Not that I look down on the people who smoke the con...I don't want that life style again. Hell !!! even the dealers told me I smoked too much!!!!:laughing:


What's it like finishing drywall sober?



Californiadecks said:


> I've been all over this world and I can tell you as much as you may not think and as many free loafers there are here, Americans are IMO and what I've seen, are the hardest workers in the world. Hell, the Starbucks in London don't even open Until 8 am. There's a reason our Starbucks opens at 5am. I got to see the Egg Nest being built in China. The workers were wearing flip flops! They were pretty laid back. How much construction work can you do in flip flops. The difference was there were probably 10 times more workers then here. There's a reason for that as well. Our economy is motivated by the more and harder you work the more you make. The libs call it greed.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Statistically the US is fairly high up there, about 12th, must be all those Mexicans bumping up your numbers to make up for the welfare recipients. :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

...


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

OECD, average hours worked per worker per year.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> What's it like finishing drywall sober?
> 
> 
> 
> Statistically the US is fairly high up there, about 12th, must be all those Mexicans bumping up your numbers to make up for the welfare recipients. :laughing:


Statistically in high welfare recipients. Has nothing to do with how hard Americans work. Nada!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Statistically in high welfare recipients. Has nothing to do with how hard Americans work. Nada!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Mike that line was a joke, I didn't look up any statistics on welfare recipients.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Just like the influence of the Mexican immigrants...that was also a joke...and I made that joke because statistically Mexico is the hardest working nation in the world.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

So, a friend is a school bus driver. Zero tolerance, and they do random drug testing. You show positive, you may/may not have to go to counseling, and YOU WILL NOT DRIVE until you test clean and everyone involved signs off. 

Her manager was asked what a change in mj legal status would mean, and the school board answered to the effect "not one whit".

OTOH, at the steel milling plant, the ins underwriter sets & manages drug testing. There, if you test positive, you are retested until clean or...:gun_bandana:

I don't want the headache of managing this stuff any more. Makes me rethink the whole notion of doing any more large projects.

That said, I'm guessing changing the legal status isn't going to change OTJ testing/tolerance for the construction industry any time soon.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

is this for real still going

guess most of you have never worked on a big azz second home in a resort town in colorado with a price tag no less than 1.5 mil.

these homes are built by people smoking weed all day long, not a big deal to show up a job site and catch a whiff of weed once in awhile

mountain village was truely the most wacked place to work, the smell of weed seemed to be constantly in the air, one of my co workers sat down on a job box at lunch only to later realize he had sat in a pile of resin from someone cleaning out their bowl. it took forever to get that off his coveralls

we were having a difficult time working with these 20 yr old kids from montrose who were suppose to hang some drywall for us so we could do our job, after biatching up a storm the super finally admitted that the kids were all doing crystal meth and had a hard time going from point A-B. To this day I have never seen four white boys hang a vaulted lid 25 ft in the air in less time

another guy I knew was fired from seabrook station for selling drugs on the job, he was given plenty of warnings before they fired him the story is classic 

weather your head is in the sand or not, drugs use in the trades is common as can be

it is up to the contractor and employer to decide if that is something they will not allow or ignore the greatest liability though is injury and/or death on the job site 

after countless studies I will say that drug use has about the same injury rate as non drug use at work


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

I would like to now change the subject

there has been lots of talk about school bus drivers and being high, since I know a girl who has a CDL and drives a bus I think it's pretty f'n funny, yet you have to be clean as a whistle to have a CDL and also to drive a bus. Regular random testing is how it goes 

In the summer some of these bus drivers drive dump trucks

So my question is how hot is a chick who drives a dump truck? Prolly pretty hot in my book


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> Just like the influence of the Mexican immigrants...that was also a joke...and I made that joke because statistically Mexico is the hardest working nation in the world.


The ones in my town do. They come in the job site, pour out of cars and trucks, they all go to their prospective places when doing stucco, and putting up scaffolding and start working like ants. 

On lunch break, they all eat together and some times wrestle. Cracks me up. They are dealing with heavy buckets all day and still laugh. And one of the guys always has some rinky phone with music going. 

They always have a smile for me and they are always respectful. I never understood why they got a reputation for being lazy. I feel lucky to work beside them.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

fast fred said:


> is this for real still going
> 
> guess most of you have never worked on a big azz second home in a resort town in colorado with a price tag no less than 1.5 mil.
> 
> ...


The only guys I know that are sort of cocky with their weed smoking are the demo guys. I know a few that use for medicine. One with gout.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

can't stop thinking about pot heads at work stories

got millions of them

one of the best was I was getting ready to turn a house over to the customer, so it was a nonstop parade of architects, Realtors, friends and the future home owner. We were doing punch list work

I walk onto the job and the whole house smells like weed inside I freak out and start running around asking everyone whose smoking weed, I finally find the electricians on the lower back patio passing around a bowl, these morons have the door wide open and everything is getting sucked into the house. 

told them not to be so stupid about smoking weed, they went right back to work with their heads down and I'm running around opening every window and door I can to air the place out


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## Mountain Man (Jun 3, 2013)

fast fred said:


> is this for real still going guess most of you have never worked on a big azz second home in a resort town in colorado with a price tag no less than 1.5 mil. these homes are built by people smoking weed all day long, not a big deal to show up a job site and catch a whiff of weed once in awhile mountain village was truely the most wacked place to work, the smell of weed seemed to be constantly in the air, one of my co workers sat down on a job box at lunch only to later realize he had sat in a pile of resin from someone cleaning out their bowl. it took forever to get that off his coveralls we were having a difficult time working with these 20 yr old kids from montrose who were suppose to hang some drywall for us so we could do our job, after biatching up a storm the super finally admitted that the kids were all doing crystal meth and had a hard time going from point A-B. To this day I have never seen four white boys hang a vaulted lid 25 ft in the air in less time another guy I knew was fired from seabrook station for selling drugs on the job, he was given plenty of warnings before they fired him the story is classic weather your head is in the sand or not, drugs use in the trades is common as can be it is up to the contractor and employer to decide if that is something they will not allow or ignore the greatest liability though is injury and/or death on the job site after countless studies I will say that drug use has about the same injury rate as non drug use at work


 I work on those trophy homes in mountain village and telluride quite frequently. And yes the sweet smell of "herb" is often in the air. And to answer somebody else's question, it is downright awful finishing drywall sober!! I know because I've been doing it for the last couple years, after years of blazing and happily finishing!!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Holy chit are we done? 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> I can gauranteed you more people would run red lights if it was legal.


How do you figure that? As an example of why your arguments don't hold water is Amsterdam decriminalized marijuana and petty crime _DROPPED_ 60something percent in 6 months. Cities/countries that provide clean needles to drug addicts have seen drastic reductions in AIDS cases and petty crimes. I'm NO lib, by ANY means, but sometimes you need to realize that just throwing people in jail for crimes that don't hurt anybody (but themselves) is counterproductive. When drugs are legalized (and taxed) it takes away the 'danger factor'. When alcohol was made illegal, Americans drank 50% more. When prohibition ended, the illegal hooch makers all went out of business because consumption dropped. It wasn't as exciting and dangerous anymore.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Holy chit are we done?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Dealing with the 'Smokers', justifications / discussion is NEVER over. Side effect of low levels of THC in the system :laughing: 

Been wrestling with my son's similar behaviors... Been down here 3 weeks and away from working at a pizza joint job. Where they smoke and work for just above min wage. Greatest job ever, right? LOL That job-situation does not add up to entry level carpenter at 12/hr with potential for much mo money. He even, in a round about way, admitted being away (Aka decreased levels LOL) he has a clearer view on the subject. No longer wants to make the pizza place/smoking for a living / career. 

Been on mind so I jumped in ... fix'n to jump out. This is an old "old" discussion.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Texas Wax said:


> Dealing with the 'Smokers', justifications / discussion is NEVER over. Side effect of low levels of THC in the system :laughing:


Not everyone who is in favor of legalization partakes in the usage of these substances.


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## Mdwest (Jan 5, 2014)

Yesterday I was driving here in wichita, ks and saw they were doing a check point for dui as well as a swab test. I've never heard of it so asked my neighbor who's a Sheriff Officer about it. 
He told me with all the marijuana flooding in from Colorado it's really the only way at the moment to check for sure if someone is under the influence of pot short of a blood test. Does anyone else have that testing where they're from?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

66 Shelby said:


> How do you figure that? As an example of why your arguments don't hold water is Amsterdam decriminalized marijuana and petty crime _DROPPED_ 60something percent in 6 months. Cities/countries that provide clean needles to drug addicts have seen drastic reductions in AIDS cases and petty crimes. I'm NO lib, by ANY means, but sometimes you need to realize that just throwing people in jail for crimes that don't hurt anybody (but themselves) is counterproductive. When drugs are legalized (and taxed) it takes away the 'danger factor'. When alcohol was made illegal, Americans drank 50% more. When prohibition ended, the illegal hooch makers all went out of business because consumption dropped. It wasn't as exciting and dangerous anymore.


It's your story you can tell it any way you want. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

avenge said:


> I've never seen anyone smoke pot and get hurt


Bullsh!t. A stoned worker is much more likely to injure themselves because they're not paying attention to the job at hand. Too busy rocking out to the music and being in la-la land. I know, I've been stoned on the job and cut myself :laughing:


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Mdwest said:


> Yesterday I was driving here in wichita, ks and saw they were doing a check point for dui as well as a swab test. I've never heard of it so asked my neighbor who's a Sheriff Officer about it.
> He told me with all the marijuana flooding in from Colorado it's really the only way at the moment to check for sure if someone is under the influence of pot short of a blood test. Does anyone else have that testing where they're from?


Sounds like a 4A violation.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

66 Shelby said:


> Bullsh!t. A stoned worker is much more likely to injure themselves because they're not paying attention to the job at hand. Too busy rocking out to the music and being in la-la land. I know, I've been stoned on the job and cut myself :laughing:


Don't call bull****, I don't remember seeing you there during my 39 years. Loud music or ear phones were not allowed. And if you cut yourself that's your stupidity. Not everyone becomes a dumbass when smoking pot.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> Holy chit are we done?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


I guess that answers your question, is there a record for longest thread?:laughing:


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

EricBrancard said:


> Not everyone who is in favor of legalization partakes in the usage of these substances.


I'm not against legalizing it. Lean libertarian actually. Personally through experience do not believe it's the wisest vice to have in your life. Along with heavy drinking. Done both and the end result is always diminished potential - time & money wasted (in more ways than one). It's a personal choice and an individuals to make and take responsibility for. 

Sooo my comment was supposed to be a "Funny". With A small grain of Ironic truth but still jest in fun  even inserted the "":laughing:"" smiley to express that it was supposed to be funny in fun- guess not :blink:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> Sounds like a 4A violation.


You don't have to submit to a swab text. It's your right but they have a right to not let you drive if you don't. When you sign for your drivers license you agree to submit or lose your license. They aren't making you give up your 4th. It's a choice. 

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> It's your story you can tell it any way you want.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Did my 'Story' have too many facts in it for you??


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

66 Shelby said:


> Did my 'Story' have too many facts in it for you??


Absolutely none, but thanks for asking. 

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

shanekw1 said:


> Why don't kids vote or have driver's licenses, or go to the casino? Why don't people put beer on their kids' cheerios? The simple, honest answer is that yes, many things in life are harmful and society in general does not give these things to children until they have reached an age and maturity level where they are reasonably able to make informed decisions for themselves. So, yes, IMO your argument about why a person does not give pot to their children is, indeed, obtuse. And pay no attention to the colour of my screen name. I am just a guy, like you, and I hope my ideas would have merit due to their composition and not some green letters.


Drivers license isn't a carcinogenic smoke harming the lungs and delivering a mind altering substance. That's all you got?

Weak bro. But being that you are from the Kootney lake region, I totally understand your acceptance of pot. I was born in Nelson. It's the Mecca of draft dodging pot-heads from back in the 60s-70s. It's still full of people who think that some laws don't apply to them. 

As for being a mod.......it Sh/be like being a cop. You submit to, obey and enforce the law. Kinda means setting the right example. 

Just some thoughts.

Oh yeah, and MJ is harmful and wrong. Again for the thick-headed out there. I HAVE NO WAY TO STOP YOU FROM TOKIN'. NOR WOULD I CARE TO. I WILL JUST TELL YOU THAT WEED IS WRONG.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Isn't the 5+ years of steady economic depression and general failure of the Obama White house top to bottom alone reasons to rethink allowing a bunch of former and current drug users and abusers in positions of authority and responsibility? The guy hired a tax dodger to run the Dept of Treasury!!! now the loser is cashing in via the best seller list? Huh? I thought we had a law criminals couldn't sell their stories for a profit.:whistling

Could anyone clean and sober of thought "fast and Furious"(just naming a Law enforcement effort after a movie that glorifies law breaking is stupid.) a good idea..... Let us give 2 thousand machine Guns to criminals, then arrest them, it will help let us out law semi-auto-rifles for US citizens.....

Let the working fools smoke dope, they won't notice we are taking 60% of their income.... Poorly educated and stoned... sounds like a well run Plantation or feudal barony...


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

EricBrancard said:


> Throw your car keys to a 10 year old and just tell him to be back before dark. I mean, adults can drive a car, why not a kid? We can take these "what's good for one isn't good for another" arguments to extremes all day long.


HELLO???

You and the Canuck must be on something.

To equate driving a car with doing drugs..........how do you get there? 


Let's see. There's an old adage, "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” 
― Sarah Cook


I'm not naming names..........just thinking out loud. 






If something is physically or mentally bad for a human child, then it supposes that the same is physically or mentally bad for a human adult. The diff being that the human adult can CHOOSE TO BE STUPID AND TAKE RISKS that we won't want a child to risk.



I'm stunned at the complete and utter lacking of common sense reasoning on display here. Some of you folks are clinical.


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## Mdwest (Jan 5, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> You don't have to submit to a swab text. It's your right but they have a right to not let you drive if you don't. When you sign for your drivers license you agree to submit or lose your license. They aren't making you give up your 4th. It's a choice.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


Thats how the law is here if you have a license. I drove through it, took my tests and went to dinner. I personally don't mind the test and wouldn't refuse because I've been pot free since 96.
I had just never heard of it until then except for an vehicular accident or job accident. All the legal pot in Colorado is making its way to this state and already causing problems.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Mdwest said:


> Thats how the law is here if you have a license. I drove through it, took my tests and went to dinner. I personally don't mind the test and wouldn't refuse because I've been pot free since 96.
> I had just never heard of it until then except for an vehicular accident or job accident. All the legal pot in Colorado is making its way to this state and already causing problems.


This is where the feds are suppose to do their job. When it crosses state line its suppose to be a federal issue. Pot in and of itself is a federal crime. But transporting it across state lines with intent to sell. It falls under the drug trafficking laws. 

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't even know why the OP even started a thread like this. Dope is not legal anywhere in this country. So as an employer I can say you aren't allowed to come to work on an illegal controlled substance. Cannibis is controlled substance 7360 listed with the DEA as an illegal drug. 

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't even know why the OP even started a thread like this. Dope is not legal anywhere in this country. So as an employer I can say you aren't allowed to come to work on an illegal controlled substance. Cannibis is controlled substance 7360 listed with the DEA as an illegal drug. Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


 It's absolutely not legal federally but on the state/city level it is legal in many places. That said, "legal" is probably a more appropriate term since in the end it's illegal on the federal level. 

The city of Portland, ME recently "legalized" recreational marijuana. I'm not sure what that accomplished since nothing has changed around here. We didn't get any dispensaries or dangerous potheads roaming the streets.

That is actually exactly why I started this thread. I was wondering at what point smoking weed in your off time becomes acceptable in terms of employment. 

Personally, I don't think a joint over the weekend is going to ruin an employee, so if I'm allowed to hire him despite a popped urine test, that's great. That said, I work alone, don't need employees, and if I did, they would work alongside me, not alone in/on other people's property.


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

Maybe a better thread would have been: "If you relocated to a country where marijuana was legal, would you still discriminate against casual users (off-hours habit only) looking for employment?"


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

66 Shelby said:


> How do you figure that? As an example of why your arguments don't hold water is Amsterdam decriminalized marijuana and petty crime _DROPPED_ 60something percent in 6 months. Cities/countries that provide clean needles to drug addicts have seen drastic reductions in AIDS cases and petty crimes. I'm NO lib, by ANY means, but sometimes you need to realize that just throwing people in jail for crimes that don't hurt anybody (but themselves) is counterproductive. When drugs are legalized (and taxed) it takes away the 'danger factor'. *When alcohol was made illegal, Americans drank 50% more. When prohibition ended, the illegal hooch makers all went out of business because consumption dropped. It wasn't as exciting and dangerous anymore.*


While I appreciate what you are trying to say, the last just isn't factually so. Quite the opposite, actually.

Another downside, is the devastating effect it had on Canadian and Jamaican/Cuban economies - both of which had been supplying the rum runners.

And you left out some things too: Mainly, that until the repeal of Prohibition, Marihuana was legal, and under Prohibition, the use of it shot up dramatically. Which is why, in 1937, the Marihuana Tax Stamp Act was enacted, as an end run around the 10th Amendment.

That it turn did 2 things of note beyond the obvious:

1. It really p*ssed off the medical community, who long ago had recognized the benefits Marihuana.

2. It destroyed the US hemp market.

And yeah, it really did curtail the use of MJ among the larger white population, but remained in the black and Latino communities.

*EDIT:

Oh crap! I forgot the most important thing about the MJ Tax Act: And who was the first person busted under the new law?

A 57 year old white construction worker who sold 3 doobies to a mexican immigrant worker.
There's some irony in there someplace methinks....*


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> While I appreciate what you are trying to say, the last just isn't factually so. Quite the opposite, actually.
> 
> Another downside, is the devastating effect it had on Canadian and Jamaican/Cuban economies - both of which had been supplying the rum runners.
> 
> ...


Correct, although there is limited data available prohibition caused a drop in alcohol consumption until the illegal market grew enough to meet the demand, from there on it slowly crept up. As the black market couldn't meet demand people sought alternatives (drugs).


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

wallmaxx said:


> Drivers license isn't a carcinogenic smoke harming the lungs and delivering a mind altering substance. That's all you got?


Statistically, cars are far more dangerous to humans.



> Weak bro. But being that you are from the Kootney lake region, I totally understand your acceptance of pot. I was born in Nelson. It's the Mecca of draft dodging pot-heads from back in the 60s-70s. It's still full of people who think that some laws don't apply to them.


You are right, there are a lot of pot smokers around here. Any guess as to how much actual crime they commit? Here's a hint, zero.




> Oh yeah, and MJ is harmful and wrong..... I WILL JUST TELL YOU THAT WEED IS WRONG.


In your opinion.



> Let's see. There's an old adage, "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
> ― Sarah Cook


I am starting to feel the same way.



> If something is physically or mentally bad for a human child, then it supposes that the same is physically or mentally bad for a human adult. The diff being that the human adult can CHOOSE TO BE STUPID AND TAKE RISKS that we won't want a child to risk.



That is exactly what I said in my post, I am glad you agree.:thumbsup:


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> You don't have to submit to a swab text. It's your right but they have a right to not let you drive if you don't. When you sign for your drivers license you agree to submit or lose your license. They aren't making you give up your 4th. It's a choice.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk


So, I made an agreement to submit to a swab test at a checkpoint or lose my licence? This means with no RAS and no arrest? Massive government overreach and definite violation of 4A, regardless of what court upholds it under pressure from groups like MADD.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

wallmaxx said:


> Let's see. There's an old adage, "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
> ― Sarah Cook


Correct, which is why I will no longer be engaging in any discussion on any topic with you. Waste of time.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Agility said:


> It's absolutely not legal federally but on the state/city level it is legal in many places. That said, "legal" is probably a more appropriate term since in the end it's illegal on the federal level.
> 
> The city of Portland, ME recently "legalized" recreational marijuana. I'm not sure what that accomplished since nothing has changed around here. We didn't get any dispensaries or dangerous potheads roaming the streets.
> 
> ...


If In the end it's still illegal then why would "legal" be a more appropriate term? That doesn't make since. Since federal law trumps all other laws it's not legal on any level.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> So, I made an agreement to submit to a swab test at a checkpoint or lose my licence? This means with no RAS and no arrest? Massive government overreach and definite violation of 4A, regardless of what court upholds it under pressure from groups like MADD.


Just for the record I think driving is a right and they should only be able to swab with resonable cause. I'm just telling it like I think they see it.


How is it a violation of the 4th? They aren't forcing you to take the test. 


Now if driving was a right that would be different.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

What happens when a guy uses weed legally in WA state, but is then federally busted for possession? Something like that could ban a guy from ever legally owning a firearm. 

The constitution was designed for power to be mostly in the local and least at the federal level. I wonder how this will all shake out?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

wallmaxx said:


> What happens when a guy uses weed legally in WA state, but is then federally busted for possession? Something like that could ban a guy from ever legally owning a firearm.
> 
> The constitution was designed for power to be mostly in the local and least at the federal level. I wonder how this will all shake out?


I think you need to ring the urine out of the constitution for it to regain a little more validity.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Shanekw1 @ 463:

#1.Cars, private transportation controlled by the owner, allow workers to chose who they work for, the huge increase in income is well worth the tiny bit of loss of life and limb.

Smoking dope isn't necessary to be in a free state, freedom of movement is required though. Call your quack and ask about MJ induced COPD and cancer....

#2. The lack of activity of dope users is a Symptom to be ashamed of, not proud, To lazy to steal, to vegged out to vote, to apathetic to stop illegal immigration, and too foggy to tell they're wasting away in Hempville. They do tend to vote hopey changey though if you give a ride to the polls and MJ cookie after...

#3. For nearly everyone, frequent use of MJ is a very poor choice, get over it. Poor choices shouldn't be encouraged, but Freedom requires the freedom to be and act stupid. This is a consensus view of non-smokers and past smokers..... Successful smokers are hen's teeth....
#4 No one claims that using MJ makes you smarter, "Dave, ain't here man,"
#4 I mean #5, Second hand smoke on the Blog? Childhood's end is debatable by the irrational, biologically if you can reproduce you're adult no matter what an irrational social construct says.... this is a side show to the big questions, but in general, smoking dope is even dumber for those who need to learn and further mature, i.e. young people who want to be "above" average in their lives....
Again heavy drug use by the young is mostly a result of their artificially delayed passage into "adult" levels of responsibility and privileges. "While we are waiting, let's get high...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Shanekw1 @ 463:
> 
> #1.Cars, private transportation controlled by the owner, allow workers to chose who they work for, the huge increase in income is well worth the tiny bit of loss of life and limb.
> 
> ...


So I take it your ok with meth, and heroin being legal?

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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Sure, legal to Use, not legal to drive, work for me, or have kidds, carry a Gun while under the influence... Sort of a self made 2cd class personage. 

Even Mexicans can handle the right to buy drugs w/o a script, surely we could too.... Quit wasting money and losing freedoms to fight an endless losing Civil War on fellow American dummies who chose dope in moments of weakness and desperation.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I think everyone stated their views..... more than twice.

We are done here.


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