# What Windows and Doors are You Guys Using?



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

I've always liked the Andersen Frenchwood doors. The windows I can take or leave. I will use Andersen gliding doors instead of Integrity at this point.


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## Lederle (Apr 12, 2017)

Lettusbee said:


> The Integrity line by Marvin is divided into two styles. Wood-Ultrex and All-Ultrex. Ultrex is the frame material It is a fiberglass based product that has good performance in regards to energy efficiency and expansion and contraction.
> 
> The wood-ultrex has the fiberglass exterior frame, and a wood interior. This can be a great option and I have installed hundreds of them.
> 
> ...


Would there be a difference in durability between Wood-Ultrex and All-Ultrex? Especially in a hot desert climate? Wood, as long as it is on the interior, should be about as durable as the All-Ultrex, I'm assuming? How about a cost difference between the two sub-lines?


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Wood Ultrex is significantly more $$$. 

For the wood ultrex, you will have to specify the jamb depth so that the window flushes out with the drywall on the interior. Or whatever wall covering is used. It's intended to be used with a wood casing for the interior trim. 

All ultrex is intended to be used with drywall jamb returns. You can apply wood jambs to the all ultrex if you so desire. 

The wood ultrex is a better looking window, to me. The all ultrex go well with modern aesthetics, and also with tract builders with their cost saving design decisions. 

If you get a stained finish on the inside of the wood-ultrex, it will still be a maintenance item. The longevity depends on the finish product you choose. If your painting them, it will likely last longer than a stain and clearcoat. The sunny side of the house will need refinishing more frequently than the shady side. If prefinished factory colors appeal to you, that's a great way to go.


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## Lederle (Apr 12, 2017)

OK, Thanks Lettusbee! 

I think we'd go with the All Ultrex option then based on what you are suggesting, as the house is 1973 mid-century modern design. Drywall jamb returns. Hot California desert climate. Save some money.

Here are two photos in fact of the current windows:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3wffab4alhr908/2017-02-13 15.18.46.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bfbi9xc8706gy5/2017-02-13 15.19.31.jpg?dl=0

One Milgard dealer in S. California contends that their premium vinyl (Tuscany line) is as durable even in the hot desert as their all-fiberglass (Ultra line) windows. At 60% to 65% of the cost. 

Both have lifetime warranties with Cardinal low-e 366 glass. Main disadvantage he says is that interior can only be white, and it can't be painted, whereas fiberglass can be painted without jeopardizing the warranty.

Any thoughts on whether vinyl can hack it in the desert high (but dry) heat? 

Any comments on Milgard Ultra vs Marvin All Ultrex Integrity?


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Milgard ultra and integrity all ultrex are very similar. I would base that decision on reputation of supplier and installer on your area, as well as price. 

For the sun exposure you describe, I would stay away from vinyl if you want to get the longest life from your new windows. 



Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Our daughter decided to go with vinyl replacement windows from a local fabricator. Price driven clients drive me crazy.:wallbash:

Tom


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## DaemarConst (Aug 13, 2016)

We did 9 window replacement in a fire damage house. Used American craftsman by Anderson with Low E, Argon, decent service and product.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

DaemarConst said:


> We did 9 window replacement in a fire damage house. Used American craftsman by Anderson with Low E, Argon, decent service and product.



American Craftsman was HD's window line made for them by SilverLine.
Andersen bought SilverLine.


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> Our daughter decided to go with vinyl replacement windows from a local fabricator. Price driven clients drive me crazy.:wallbash:
> 
> Tom


Some clients figure out they can do the vinyls twice for the cost of a better window once.


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## DaemarConst (Aug 13, 2016)

TimNJ said:


> American Craftsman was HD's window line made for them by SilverLine.
> 
> Andersen bought SilverLine.




Yes sir! Ordered from HD, got a special 20 percent off. They advised special order turn around time 3 weeks. Got them in 10 days. Customer was happy as hell. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Lettusbee said:


> Some clients figure out they can do the vinyls twice for the cost of a better window once.


Dumb asses (remember, this is my wifes daughter, I wont claim her when she does stupid stuff like this).

Tom


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## rjf builder (Dec 20, 2016)

I install windows and doors for my local lumber yard. mostly marvin windows and doors with the majority being the integrity line.

I stopped using thermatru doors because the company building the frames up this way was doing a lousy job. I do mostly Masonite brand entry doors now, if the budget isn't there for a marvin product

I have installed many pella windows and doors as well. I really like their sliders compared to the marvins but I don't believe their windows are as nice.

I have done a few andersons in my time and they are a good product but the service around here for them sucks.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> I think the fall of Pella service here is one of the reasons I’m looking. *When I was a big-time contractor, I spent a lot with them and could get great service + golf trips on the private jet. Now… I don’t even have a rep. and if I need a service call on a new install it could be 5 weeks*.


Reminds me of that scene from Casino...


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Update on how bad Pella service and sales is here. I called the 800 number a few weeks ago… No response. I contacted their office here directly on Monday… No response as of today.

I had my wife go back through QuickBooks history today and since 2001 (16 years) I have purchased $308k from them (an average of $19.25k) and I can’t get a return phone call. Incredible!


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Update on how bad Pella service and sales is here. I called the 800 number a few weeks ago… No response. I contacted their office here directly on Monday… No response as of today.
> 
> I had my wife go back through QuickBooks history today and since 2001 (16 years) I have purchased $308k from them (an average of $19.25k) and I can’t get a return phone call. Incredible!


Sent you an email, Dan responded to my request for quote for Kelly's windows within an hour and had the quote to me within 24 hours. 

Tom


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## Lederle (Apr 12, 2017)

"Milgard ultra and Marvin Integrity all ultrex are very similar. I would base that decision on reputation of supplier and installer on your area, as well as price. "

Integrity All Utrex seems to be 20% lower price than Milgard Ultra. Contractor seems sharp. So we'll go with Integrity.

Curious if I should ask the contractor to do a full frame replacement? He seems to think a retrofit is all that's needed but is open to either avenue. But am wondering if we might lose too much window space, and the profile might be too drastic a change.

Here is an interior and exterior photo of two of the typical windows that we're replacing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rswat53hqaxezyg/DenExterior.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nryfnvx4nkvuft8/DenInterior.jpg?dl=0


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

99 times out of 100, I will advocate for full frame replacement. But you have stucco. At least I think that's what that is. 

So, if you don't have any water intrusion issues already, you'd likely be fine with inserts. They do take away from the visible glass to some degree, but your existing frames are pretty thin (Aluminum?), so it wouldn't be too bad. 

In my area, I generally cut the stucco back 3-1/2" from the frame and install the new window as a full frame replacement, and then trim around the window with cedar or a stucco detail band. That allows us to tie in the new window and flashing into the existing drainage plane, if there is one. That also keeps us from trying to match an existing stucco finish.

Full frame replacements allow us to catch problems like this one.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> Sent you an email, Dan responded to my request for quote for Kelly's windows within an hour and had the quote to me within 24 hours.
> 
> Tom


Thanks Tom. I got the contact info. At this point, they would need to jump through some pretty tall hoops to get my business back. I’ll reach out to your contact simply to see is they realize their problem or to see if I’ve been blacklisted for some reason. It’s more about principle now.


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## Lederle (Apr 12, 2017)

I know we were leaning toward Marvin Integrity but another slo-poke dealer just sent me a quote to consider:
a) aluminum from Milgard (thermally broken for one large picture window, most would be standard aluminum as making them therm-broken doesn't improve energy ratings much). 
b) premium vinyl (Tuscany) from Milgard
c) Andersen 100 Fibrex

They are all coming in between $13K and $14K vs $19K for fiberglass.

This is a hot desert climate. Not much humidity and seldom below freezing if ever.

Any recommendations if I were to go for one of the three cheaper frame materials (ie. besides fiberglass)? 

I hear conflicting stories as to how well premium vinyl holds up in the desert. The dealer noted that the salt in the desert might be worse for aluminum in the long run vs vinyl. We can probably live with a white interior for vinyl if we go that route, though we'd prefer bronze, which aluminum and (now) Andersen 100 offer for interiors.


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Fiberglass is the best option for your conditions.


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## Lederle (Apr 12, 2017)

Thanks Lettusbee and others. 

Fiberglass it will be. 

A related question: Phase two of this project will be to replace the patio slider doors. In 12 - 24 months. There are two of them. Today they are single pane aluminum operating in 3 panes at 140" wide. Facing east.

Marvin Integrity All-Ultrex apparently won't go this wide however we've just learned. And we'd want the phase 1 new windows to match the phase 2 patio slider doors.

Could we solve this by separating one of the three panels from the slider and just making it a vertically-oriented picture window? Or by mulling in the field? Would one of those work well? Or do they have cosmetic or installation downsides that we would come to regret?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

You're not a contractor, are you?


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## Lederle (Apr 12, 2017)

Busted. Not in this arena. I do home security consulting. No worries. I will find this info thru other avenues.


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## blueskyglass (May 8, 2014)

We go with Milgard. Good product and good support. 

Rod
Blue Sky Glass
Window Replacement


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

I was trying to work with Pella to fix all the sashes on 8 20 year old townhouse. We were exploring the possibility of leaving all the frames and replacing the stashes. I wasn't even looking for a discount, I just wanted to make sure we got them sized correctly. 

If that was not feasible we were looking to order all new Pella windows. After a rep came out to look at this with me I received a bill for $150. I talked to them about it assuming it was a mistake. 

They made me pay it and I haven't installed any of there product Since. A year later I replaced an entire house full of 18 year old Pella windows that failed. 

For a company with a bunch of windows failing prematurely they sure have bad customer surface.


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## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> Our daughter decided to go with vinyl replacement windows from a local fabricator. Price driven clients drive me crazy.:wallbash:
> 
> Tom


And now you know why alot of us struggle to deal with customers. Only a few can have the price is no issues client base.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Unger.const said:


> And now you know why alot of us struggle to deal with customers.* Only a few can have the price is no issues client base*.


Takes time to foster that level customer base... most never think they can or they give up and quit the business or work for someone else... they don't know how or don't want to put in the work necessary to get there...

Consider... in EVERY market, there is the lowest, middle and most expensive prices... you're going to find yourself in that mix no matter what so who are you targeting and how are you approaching it?... 

It's an ebb and flow... we all have the customers we choose to work with and sometimes we have to suck it up... not every customer is in that level...

Gotta' start somewhere...


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## Pangdev (Dec 6, 2017)

*The windows i use the most are*

Andersen 400 series or Plygem Classic series with low e, argon gas filled, HP windows.
In Bergen County New Jersey, they are energy compliant as well as many different options. I install them in all of my new homes.


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## PaulFalls44 (Dec 11, 2017)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I really like the Integrity line by Marvin.
> 
> Anymore, I am building windows for all my projects.


I like this idea


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## Stilla (Sep 23, 2017)

The job I am on used Loewen windows and doors. They are high end. The ones we used, had aluminum cladding. The cladding and the nailing flanges where made out of a single piece of metal. Making the window perfectly Square. Loewen calls their windows structural, meaning you don't have to shim the window. Just level it and nail it.

The crew that installs our windows and doors, installed 90 loewen products in 3 days. I have never seen such and easy install.


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