# Shortage of tradesmen



## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Nunca habrá una escasez de comerciante. Ellos apenas don' t sucede hablar la lengua local. Y don' t olvida, hay millones más de ellos apenas que esperan para cruzar la frontera y para llenar esos puntos.


"Baxter, you know I don't speak Spanish..."

"What? You pooped in the refrigerator? and you at a whole wheel of cheese?"


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

ProWallGuy said:


> Nunca habrá una escasez de comerciante. Ellos apenas don' t sucede hablar la lengua local. Y don' t olvida, hay millones más de ellos apenas que esperan para cruzar la frontera y para llenar esos puntos.


dos palabras .... cerco eléctrico. :thumbup:


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> Nunca habrá una escasez de comerciante. Ellos apenas don' t sucede hablar la lengua local. Y don' t olvida, hay millones más de ellos apenas que esperan para cruzar la frontera y para llenar esos puntos.


Translates to;

There will never be a shortage of merchant. They just don 't happen to speak the local language. And don 't forget, there are millions more of them just waiting to cross the border to fill those spots.
 
I can't agree more. There will not be a shortage of man power to get things "done". The shortage is in people with the devotion and drive to make a career at the given craft.

We , as a society, need to give a craftsman more prestige and less negative stereotype. Kids don't see trades people as a cool job. Why would they when all the mass media does is paint us in an unfavorable light?

the whole issue of the trades being taken over by the Spanish speaking population is not only aggravating to me, it is embarrassing and sad.

Where have we failed to inspire our youth to learn a tangible skill?


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Splinter said:


> dos palabras .... cerco eléctrico. :thumbup:


demasiadas palabras en espanol aqui. Soy ****** y quiero hablar solamente in english aqui. 

Ok that's really all I know:shifty:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

what kid wants to come into the trades to make dirt and break his back?...I can speak only from my experience...we hire young kids and they do sh!t work from day one, no-one teaches them, they are a tool!!! One in ten new hirers lasts 5 years here....

there's always going to be the intellegent kid who likes the fresh air, freedom, and instant gratification that comes with construction. It's not that rare, they just do the math...."why am I crawling in an attic insulating for $8hr?" Honestly, if construction work paid more there'd be a better work force. It's not the immigrants, it's the employers who are cheap!

I've got friends making 2,3,$400k a year...they're no more intelligent than I am, I just like making things....I chose to be poor...If money meant that much to me I wouldn't be doing what I do...just happens I'm the sucker who lives for the gratification....

This is a rant, but, I feel like I do what few are capable of enduring, makes me feel tough or something.... if it was easy everyone'd be doing it...


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## CharlieM (Aug 16, 2007)

Mike Finley hit the nail on the head. I’ve been in the construction industry since 1975 and the most devastating thing I’ve seen happen to this industry is the influx of illegals. They are hard working people and will work cheap. Sometime around 1979 I completed my carpentry apprenticeship and was making somewhere in the neighborhood of $18.00 an hour. Here we are thirty years later and a carpenters wage is barely into the $20.00 an hour range. How do we attract intelligent young people into this industry when the wages have not kept up with the cost of living over the last thirty years? The reality is that we are getting the caliper of person that the industry allows us to pay for. If the illegal’s had not infiltrated the construction industry I believe the wages would have kept up and we would be able to attract the type of people the industry had thirty years ago.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> It's not the immigrants, it's the employers who are cheap!
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Many posts have hit multiple nails on the head, ESSPECIALLY concerning young folks:

How many young kids in the past 5 years and present REALLY can handle physical labor after being coddled by parents who want to bust their azz to give their kids a better life, have it better than they had it growing up. SO now we have all these kids polluting society with their laziness and cant do attitudes. I have a facebook account and a few of my freinds and i talk about how sick we are when nieces/nephews/their freinds post up pizzing and moaning about "having to go to work uggh" "work sucks" etc.....and these are easy ice cream shop jobs, fast food jobs...nothing remotely labor or mentally taxing. I have a guy that works for me during the summer, a shop teacher for a HS, and we talk about how worthless most kids are nowadays and he told me, "every year i think the kids cant get anymore lazy, and every year i'm sadly proven wrong. every year you have to get louder and more verbally demeaning with the kids because trying to talk to them the way we were brought up just does not work, they respond to nothing but rasied voices and foul language" Looking to "most" of the kids nowadays for our future is a very very scarey thought that i am not looking forward to...no sense of responsibility or motivation. I worked 40hrs+ a week all the way through high school, from 9th grade to present, not many kids can phatom that ethic anymore.


Talk of paying guys what they're worth: i wish i had the ability to sell to high end clients that knew big money can buy high end work, but since most of my clients are typical blue collar since my region is poor (average income $30-40K/yr) the fact remains since there is only so much money in a job, as much as i and i'm sure alot of us here would LOVE to entice people of our caliper onto our team, there just is'nt enough money in jobs to cover business expenses, our salaries, as well as multiple employee's making good wages. My guys are from $11.50-16/hr....and this yr esspecially with the banks being tight lending, i've been treading water all season since once every thing washes out there not much left to bank...now if i paid them union wages, i'd be out of business. So until wages exceed inflation, we're all going to be caught in this fish bowl....and rest assured, it's not just us. Talk to some OTR drivers who's wages have pretty much been frozen for the last 15yrs...though fuel, insurance, tires, repair parts have all gone up.....you can only get some much milk from a cow before the cow is dry. So until customer wages go up allowing them to spend more, i cant allow my expenses to superceed what i take in. Our margins have been going backwards for the past few years, as have many business i talk with...hence many closing up shop. I'm fortuante we're still above water...but if it does'nt start getting better soon, I'll be shutting down since i do enjoy my job, but not so much i'm going to do it to break even or lose money...


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> WNYcarpenter said:
> 
> 
> > It's not the immigrants, it's the employers who are cheap!
> ...


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I did this job recently. The woman I was working for was exceptionally nice about things. This job was a no-profit job. In fact, I made hardly anything. I did it for some experience and honestly, some hope of sticking my foot in the door of a company I want to do some work for. I was hired from a referral from this company.

At the end, she confided in me that she would have never hired anyone other than someone that she felt comfortable with leaving alone in her home. She left the door unlocked for me to do what I needed on the job without hesitation or regret. She said her neighbors and friends would do the same. 

It doesn't take any implying to figure out that if you are honest, straightforward, thoughtful, courteous, and do the thing you said you will do, that your services will always be requested and paid for.

There are kids who are interested and the world is moving away from vocational training. It takes a long time to get from point A to point B in this business. It ain't easy. It's discouraging to the youngsters, which is too bad. I've met a few, but it is a rough way to make a living. I'm sure all of us can agree on that.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

I agree with most of the above comments, but also think that all the specialization in the sub trades has led to this, there aren't enough people that understand or care about, the big picture of the job as a whole. If no one on the project knows what good work looks like your going to get crap.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> rselectric1 said:
> 
> 
> > I understand:notworthy We don't have the same problem here, the Amish is our equivalent....they're cheaper and folks are enamored with their culture. Everything is hand made so of course they're better 'craftsmen', but that's not always the case.
> ...


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> WNYcarpenter said:
> 
> 
> > It's not the immigrants, it's the employers who are cheap!
> ...


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> rselectric1 said:
> 
> 
> > WNYcarpenter said:
> ...


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

IHI your'e correct about the attitudes about young workers. They are mostly careless, stupid, uninterested, not team players, talk and text on the job, etc. But they are pretty much kids being kids.

I have been working since the age of 13 and always had contempt for those teenagers who were coddled. That is until I realized I was in the minority of people who felt that way. Now I wish I had spent more time just being a kid.

The kids who are ambitious are as easy to spot. They just come through for you without fail. Unfortunately they are unusual.

I avoid them even as demo helpers now.

Their true grit will not be present until they are faced with some adversity. (Like running out the college fund):laughing:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

WNYcarpenter said:


> I've got friends making 2,3,$400k a year...they're no more intelligent than I am, I just like making things....I chose to be poor...If money meant that much to me I wouldn't be doing what I do...just happens I'm the sucker who lives for the gratification....


This rings a chord. Over the years I've passed up job offers that could easily have doubled my income. But I've never had an ulcer, and just about always enjoyed what I did.

It ain't all about the money. :thumbsup:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

As Framerman says, it's a rough way to make a living. Today I got up at 4:30, on the job by 7:30 ( it's a long drive ) We, two guys, mixed and poured 56 bags of concrete for sono tubes. Got home at 7:30. 

I turn 60 in three weeks. And guess what? I wouldn't change it for the world. The young guys who feel this way will go into the trades, those who don't, won't. 

For all us employers - tell everyone who works on your job - do it right or get lost. This in itself will help to create quality people. And I don't care what race, religion or creed they are. Just do a top drawer job!

Jeeze, I think I'm getting a little crusty :laughing:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

jkfox624 said:


> Crew came up fro down near harrisburg to do electric and plumbing and they were floored we were all white. They called us the bradford mexicans all week they were here, got old real quick.


Ahh, just call 'em flatlanders. That'll get under _their_ skin pretty quickly. I know; I'm just across the river from Harrisburg, and I've had to put up with that. :laughing:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Just a CYA thing-I think the "quote" function needs some attention.
I looked at the posts above and some of the quotes are "originally quoted by RS Electric" but were from other posters.

There are not amish people anywhere near me even though I decended from them.:laughing:


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Ahh, just call 'em flatlanders. That'll get under _their_ skin pretty quickly. I know; I'm just across the river from Harrisburg, and I've had to put up with that. :laughing:


Haha i wish i woulda thought of that. We always rag on all the flatlanders that come up for hunting season. I think these guys were actually from York. Electrician was cool just the plumbers were d bags. All they had on their mind was getting drunk that night and trying to get some fine country ass. :laughing:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

jkfox624 said:


> WNYcarpenter said:
> 
> 
> > Omg the amish. I spent alot of my summer in an amish built house fixing all the screw ups. I get so tired of ppl talking about what great work they do. I'm pretty sure none of em own a lvl or a chalkline, just stand back and gauge it against the horizon. I had a new kid with me on the job and he comented that he saw better work in his high school carpentry class.
> ...


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

jkfox624 said:


> Electrician was cool just the plumbers were d bags. All they had on their mind was getting drunk that night and trying to get some fine country ass. :laughing:


Is that bad?:laughing:


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> Is that bad?:laughing:


If they got done what they needed to nope. Showing up at 9:30 and leaving at 3:30 while we were on an unrealistic time frame. I might have aided them abit though telling em some hot spots. :whistling


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

INTRA said:


> Do you guys think there will be a shortage of trademens in 5 to 10 years.
> With most construction work being so slow, and with trade schools not
> Filling up. I think more and more people are staying away from learning a construction
> Trade in the near future. What do you guys think


I think what the hell. Why not just sit home, watch television, play computer games, and wait for a government check that some sucker is paying into to subsidize my laziness. I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> I think what the hell. Why not just sit home, watch television, play computer games, and wait for a government check that some sucker is paying into to subsidize my laziness. I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message.


Sorry poster, a little derail so please forgive me. 

Mag-did you get the job?

OK carry on


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

I just want to point out that some where along the discussion quotes got mixed up...

To clarify my position...trade work has lost it's luster to the young folk because the pay isn't equivalent to other BS jobs they could be doing. 

What the young people don't get is that if you want to learn, working in construction is an extended education you're being paid for versus a BS degree (you pay for) or a dead end walmart job.....you just have to REALLY work in the trades!!

I also feel that the trades have been dumbed down so far by TLC, HG, and Home Depot marketing that paying someone for true knowledge is beyond the typical HOer's conception....adding to the problem is the influx of HACKS supporting the HOer's perception that home improvements should/are cheap and easy. 

Only until the HOer gets F'd or realizes it's harder than they thought do they BEGIN to respect the professionals! 

I'm just an employee as frustrated as the rest of you....when you make money, so do I:clap:


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Which job is that? Whole house rewire?

Haven't heard back from him. 

The 2 bathroom exhaust fans came out well.


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## INTRA (Nov 27, 2008)

Here in MI. you don't see to many typical white boy looking for work in masonry.
A labor who is going to mix motar, haul bricks etc. I don't care how much I pay them.
Now and when it was booming. I see a problem getting good trademen in the future


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> Which job is that? Whole house rewire?
> 
> Haven't heard back from him.
> 
> The 2 bathroom exhaust fans came out well.


 
Originally Posted by *Magnettica*  
_RS, I hope you're right. Say a prayer. I just sent out a bid that I desperately need to land._

_This one!_


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

There always seems to be a common opinion around here that every Spanish speaking tradesman is an illegal from Mexico. Nothing can be further from the truth.

There are plenty of people here legally that are from all over Latin America that Spanish is their first language. And there are plenty that are here illegally.

Is it a sign of bigotry to lump them all in the same group with out a hint of evidence to make your claim?


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## fairfaxgc (Nov 24, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> I don't know the solution, but one of the problems seems to be the image of the trades being a "second choice" career to fall back on.
> 
> Every parent wants their kids to be doctors and lawyers=unrealistic
> The kids want to be firefighters, the president, super heros, video game designers, etc.=unrealistic
> ...


 
Excellent point.


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## Zinsco (Oct 14, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> There always seems to be a common opinion around here that every Spanish speaking tradesman is an illegal from Mexico. Nothing can be further from the truth.
> 
> There are plenty of people here legally that are from all over Latin America that Spanish is their first language. And there are plenty that are here illegally.
> 
> Is it a sign of bigotry to lump them all in the same group with out a hint of evidence to make your claim?


I speak fluent Spanish and have spoken with and become friends with many Mexican workers and from my admittedly unscientific experience I'd say that 90% are illegal aliens. Furthermore the woman that cleans my house is an illegal alien as are the guys that mow my lawn. 

The people doing manual labor in southern California are generally illegal. It doesn't make them bad or evil, there's really no reason for them not to cross the border and look for a better life.

The illegal aliens are here to help us.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

This post got me thinking. I am in my mid 20's only and have been brought up with a hammer in my hand and a tool belt around my waist. Out of the hundreds of people ive crossed path with that are my age (I live in a rather populated area where it seems everyone knows someone who knows you) I can think of only 3 guys that are in the trades.

A lot of it has to do with parents looking down on construction jobs and telling their kids go to college, because you dont want to have to work hard your whole life like those guys do. Then the other part of it is that kids simply DO NOT NEED TO WORK. If they run out of money, they call their parents to help with the rent and groceries. 

In 10 years, who are you going to be able to hire that is 18 and WANTING to learn?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

CharlieM said:


> Mike Finley hit the nail on the head. I’ve been in the construction industry since 1975 and the most devastating thing I’ve seen happen to this industry is the influx of illegals. They are hard working people and will work cheap. Sometime around 1979 I completed my carpentry apprenticeship and was making somewhere in the neighborhood of $18.00 an hour. Here we are thirty years later and a carpenters wage is barely into the $20.00 an hour range. How do we attract intelligent young people into this industry when the wages have not kept up with the cost of living over the last thirty years? The reality is that we are getting the caliper of person that the industry allows us to pay for. If the illegal’s had not infiltrated the construction industry I believe the wages would have kept up and we would be able to attract the type of people the industry had thirty years ago.


When I was a kid, construction workers were looked upon as guys who made a lot of money. To get your foot in the door meant something, you usually had to know somebody to get on, and it was a job you felt lucky to get cause it paid wages above average. 

My uncles worked construction, concrete and such and as a kid they always had nice trucks or a corvette or a mustang, had money to throw around and had hot girl friends.

What the hell happened?:blink:


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## Zinsco (Oct 14, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> tool belt around my waste.


That's something I don't need to see...


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## App-ironworks (Sep 9, 2009)

What's up everyone.

This is a good thread and and often talked about topic in the steel trades, too. 

Of course right now there's a shortage of work, too.

So the problem may not feel as bad as it may be.:blink:

So if there's another board/web site that focuses on this very subject can I post the address here? 

Or is that like pimping your sister, someone might like it, but that doesn't make it right.

-Brian-
www.appironworks.com


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Zinsco said:


> That's something I don't need to see...


 
:sad:


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## Zinsco (Oct 14, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> :sad:


Sorry, it's just funny how construction workers always struggle with homophones.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

....all I am gonna say is I am 25 years old...and I fired my little brother....





WNYcarpenter said:


> I also feel that the trades have been dumbed down so far by TLC, HG, and Home Depot....


 
I will say, everyone and anyone thinks they can do anything, and the trades are for people who don't want to go to school, and or are too stupid to go to school.

I am working on a buddies house, it was a foreclosure. Fix it up, sit on it sell it. Anyway, we had most of a living room and hallway gutted and my buddies brother in law comes over to "help". My buddie starts telling him how we are going to remove this wall here and install a header in the attic to flush out the ceiling. It was a section of the center wall in a cape cod. The wall was supporting about a 13 foot run of ceiling joists. The back joists happened to be supported by a bed room wall as well, the front...nothing...a clean run to the front wall. 
His brother in law goes on and starts telling him they should start the project without me...that the wall is not load bearing..."see, look there is even a gap here" (pointing to a small gap on an end cripple stud over a passage header). 

Had they pulled the wall down without putting up a temp wall, about 6 ceiling joists would have fallen out of the ceiling....but HEY, he saw it on HGTV.... okay, maybe not fallen out of the ceiling, their were nailed into the end of the back joists for about 2" with 3 16D hand bangs.....they prob would have stayed.... then again the ends where split pretty good.....

So I guess my point is,
Those shows only teach enough to make people dangerous....


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## Zinsco (Oct 14, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> So I guess my point is,
> Those shows only teach enough to make people dangerous....


Exactly. Have you ever seen a show where they even mention building codes? It's like they work in a parallel universe where codes don't exist.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Scary thing............another ten to twenty years there won't be any Americans left in the trades


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Big Shoe said:


> Scary thing............another ten to twenty years there won't be any Americans left in the trades


I'll still be in the trades or dead. I love it (most of the time:whistling)

We need to keep doing the right thing. 

Things tend to run in cycles. Some of us will always be needed to untangle the messes that the illegal hacks created in a few years.

Right now however, those of us keeping our heads above water will be THE GUYS to do it. 

The economy won't stay this way forever. We need to just hang in there!


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

IHI said:


> Many posts have hit multiple nails on the head, ESSPECIALLY concerning young folks:
> 
> How many young kids in the past 5 years and present REALLY can handle physical labor after being coddled by parents who want to bust their azz to give their kids a better life, have it better than they had it growing up. SO now we have all these kids polluting society with their laziness and cant do attitudes. I have a facebook account and a few of my freinds and i talk about how sick we are when nieces/nephews/their freinds post up pizzing and moaning about "having to go to work uggh" "work sucks" etc.....and these are easy ice cream shop jobs, fast food jobs...nothing remotely labor or mentally taxing. I have a guy that works for me during the summer, a shop teacher for a HS, and we talk about how worthless most kids are nowadays and he told me, "every year i think the kids cant get anymore lazy, and every year i'm sadly proven wrong. every year you have to get louder and more verbally demeaning with the kids because trying to talk to them the way we were brought up just does not work, they respond to nothing but rasied voices and foul language" Looking to "most" of the kids nowadays for our future is a very very scarey thought that i am not looking forward to...no sense of responsibility or motivation. I worked 40hrs+ a week all the way through high school, from 9th grade to present, not many kids can phatom that ethic anymore.


 being 21, well, as of today 22, i cant even put into words how dead on you are with this. so many people my age are lazy and dont want to work for **** and want to ***** and moan about things. one of my very good friends constantly complains about not having enough money. he's had the same super market job for almost 6 years and he's 23. its the only job he's ever had, and he's not a manager of a department or even getting garuntee'd 40 hours a week because he sucks so bad not even a grocery store will give him a chance. and all i hear from him is "i dont have any money". its pathetic. 



even rich kids my age who have no reason to complain about anything b1tch about something. i grew up fairly poor, a drunk father, i saw some f$#ked things growing up, but im not out getting drunk and stoned cuz boo hoo my life has been less then what i wanted. a single mom working well over full time since me and my brother were 2 and 4, no one around to help. i dropped out of highschool in 10th grade. yet i still managed to buy a house by the time i was 20, i have responsibilities, a dog, a brand new dirtbike sitting in my shed, along with lots of other stuff. nothing is co-signed for, mommy and daddy didnt hand it to me, i was never coddled growing up. 


sorry if i went on a rant, but its just struck a nerve with me. almost no one my age appreciates a damn thing. no one wants to work for anything, its all about "me me me" and a big pitty party. its my birthday today yet i went and worked over time today at this new job, i came in early cuz im gonna get up and do it again tomorrow, so i wasnt able to stay out late and party. and im HAPPY. im HAPPY i had to come home early so i can work tomorrow. i was given the blessing of a job and i'll be able to keep my house and pay my bills again. my generation is going to drive this country into the ground. that is all...


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## trimworks (Nov 10, 2009)

No understand!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

freemason21 said:


> being 21, well, as of today 22, i cant even put into words how dead on you are with this. so many people my age are lazy and dont want to work for **** and want to ***** and moan about things. one of my very good friends constantly complains about not having enough money. he's had the same super market job for almost 6 years and he's 23. its the only job he's ever had, and he's not a manager of a department or even getting garuntee'd 40 hours a week because he sucks so bad not even a grocery store will give him a chance. and all i hear from him is "i dont have any money". its pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heckuva post. You have my respect.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

freemason21 said:


> being 21, well, as of today 22, i cant even put into words how dead on you are with this. so many people my age are lazy and dont want to work for **** and want to ***** and moan about things. one of my very good friends constantly complains about not having enough money. he's had the same super market job for almost 6 years and he's 23. its the only job he's ever had, and he's not a manager of a department or even getting garuntee'd 40 hours a week because he sucks so bad not even a grocery store will give him a chance. and all i hear from him is "i dont have any money". its pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great post, and happy birthday! :thumbsup:


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Come on this is obama's plan to take out all white construction workers and take their jobs from them and he wants more minorities getting those good paying jobs that the white construction workers now hold,:whistling As for kids not wanting to work that has to do with how they we're brought up and how their Parents showed them how to be Productive people, Most Parents don't have time to spend with their kids cause they have so much debt that they have to work 40 hours plus. schools don't push trades that much cause Every Kid is College Material:laughing: Just go to your local Micky D's and just listen to some of the kids talk, most can't even speak English let a lone understand a trade were they will have to use their brain:whistling
I can say my two kids both work my son is a auto mechanic and my daughter is in security they both work 50 hours plus. But it all falls on the Parents and how they raise their kids either they will be productive or they will be the ones looking for the FREE obama MONEY, cause he is going to take from the RICH and give to the POOR:clap: Who knows we may be living in Huts and Caves:laughing:

Freemason HAPPY BIRTHDAY you are made from the Right Stuff other Tradesman and women can be Proud of Keep up the Good Work:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

freemason21 said:


> being 21, well, as of today 22, i cant even put into words how dead on you are with this. so many people my age are lazy and dont want to work for **** and want to ***** and moan about things. one of my very good friends constantly complains about not having enough money. he's had the same super market job for almost 6 years and he's 23. its the only job he's ever had, and he's not a manager of a department or even getting garuntee'd 40 hours a week because he sucks so bad not even a grocery store will give him a chance. and all i hear from him is "i dont have any money". its pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 This is exactly why Illegals can find work here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a Great Post along with IHI's Post. I Also wish you a Happy Birthday & glad we have you here on this Site. 
It is really sad to see these young people There were far less "losers" in my generation because we did not have everything handed to us. We had to work like you for it & this gave us our ethics....... 
When I see young people around town, that I know don't work, with cell phones & Laptops- I often wonder why their parents support this............I just saw on Tv where 60% of teenagers have cell phones- I know they are not working to pay the bill on em.......Well I don't want to rave here----- Just hope any parent here on the site will help with this big problem-----


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

mrmike said:


> This is exactly why Illegals can find work here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> This is a Great Post along with IHI's Post. I Also wish you a Happy Birthday & glad we have you here on this Site.
> It is really sad to see these young people There were far less "losers" in my generation because we did not have everything handed to us. We had to work like you for it & this gave us our ethics.......
> When I see young people around town, that I know don't work, with cell phones & Laptops- I often wonder why their parents support this............I just saw on Tv where 60% of teenagers have cell phones- I know they are not working to pay the bill on em.......Well I don't want to rave here----- Just hope any parent here on the site will help with this big problem-----


that's where open credit lines have helped ruin america and it's instant gratification need. People are working more because inflation is higher, they're wages are not stretching as far as they used to with everything around them getting more expensive. Since they're forced to work alot to try and keep up with bills/expenses they become bitter and feel they need to buy things to gratitfy themselves...."I'll buy this motorcycle, i know i honestly cant afford it, but i work hard, so i'm going to buy this and on my time off i'll enjoy it as vindication for busting my azz" and the same mental thought process takes place by spoiling all their kids, mommy and daddy are hardly home so they rely on school and day cares to raise the kids, (which is a huge topic in itself of school raised children since mom and dad are too busy for the kids...even when parents have a day off they'll still drop their kids off at day cares and such) anyhow, the parents buy the kids all sorts of things to justify why they're no in their lives other than to drop them off at functions.

It's a big american corporation, everything is intertwined and has ripple effects....it's this bad now...how you think it's going to be in another 20yrs??


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

How to succeed in _any_ business, part 1:



framerman said:


> http://www.contractortalk.com/f30/peninsula-support-66905/
> 
> It doesn't take any implying to figure out that if you are honest, straightforward, thoughtful, courteous, and do the thing you said you will do, that your services will always be requested and paid for.


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

I agree with with you guys except for the "illeagals are here to help us" they have done wonders for the healthcare sys. and the education sys. Now that we are all in agreement about the problem how do we fix it? When I lay the law down with this new generation of workers, like no texting while on the clock they all up an quit.


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## macatawacab (Jan 1, 2009)

School to work programs are being cut for budget reasons. In MI the Promise Scholarships were just cancelled. This is such wrong headed thinking! This government does not want to teach young people to fish. They want them to stand in line to get the government supplied fish.

With the Health Care stuff out there and uncertain, who wants to add employees?


What is the incentive for me to train someone? If the construction sector of the economy was growing, sure I would take on an eager learner. Did that in the past and it worked because I could give raises, truck allowances, health, etc. The economy was growing.

Cut taxes on small businesses. Give me a tax break for putting a person to work. Give me school to work incentive with the local tech school.

The Stimulus Plan went to government entities and not private sector small business. 
Jobs are in small business because small business can not be exported.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

wyoming 1 said:


> I agree with with you guys except for the "illeagals are here to help us" they have done wonders for the healthcare sys. and the education sys. Now that we are all in agreement about the problem how do we fix it? When I lay the law down with this new generation of workers, like no texting while on the clock they all up an quit.


LOL, I got some lip from a puke once when i told him to get off his damn phone, this is work, not social hour...if you wanna tell your honey how much you love her, you tell her at lunch time, or you can stay home tomorrow and forever and show her how much you love her with your broke azz. He told me, "well your on the phone all the time too"  Listen, i'm on the phone because this phone is the life line that allows you to get paid, you take away my phone, and you dont have a job.

he texted me the next day he quit:laughing:


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> I still can't believe the job I looked at to redo a steam shower where the customers hired some hack ass handyman type and they actually told me the guy had a *book on the job site* that he read from every day to learn how to build a steam shower.
> 
> The worst part of it was they seemed to be defending him and thought that he was smart or something cause he was 'smarter' then other contractors cause he was using a book. :blink:



I pull the NEC out on a job site sometimes to make sure I am doing something up to code, does that make me a hack? :whistling


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

IHI said:


> LOL, I got some lip from a puke once when i told him to get off his damn phone, this is work, not social hour...if you wanna tell your honey how much you love her, you tell her at lunch time, or you can stay home tomorrow and forever and show her how much you love her with your broke azz. He told me, "well your on the phone all the time too"  Listen, i'm on the phone because this phone is the life line that allows you to get paid, you take away my phone, and you dont have a job.
> 
> he texted me the next day he quit:laughing:


that doesnt surprise me at all. this is the general attitude of people my age, and its been fueled by this liberal view of "we're all equal and everything is fair".


once on a job site a kid i was working with got b1tched out cuz he was talking on the phone. once the boss left he said the something along the lines of "he's on his damn phone all day and he's out playing golf and not working but he's yelling at us for stupid reasons" and i looked him and i said "yeah man it just sucks that he sits on his a$$ and lets us do all the work so we can get paid. he could come here and do the work himself and get rid of us but that wouldnt be fair" he just looked at me like i had 10 heads.


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

also thanks for the happy bdays from everyone


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## Frank P (Nov 2, 2009)

I had to fire my 2 oldest sons in order for them to get your point of view. A great work ethic is beautiful thing, your way ahead of the game. Happy Birthday.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I remember being 18 and saying the same thing about the boss, now a few years later I am that guy the employees complain about not "doing anything"

Makes it a lot easier just to inform the employees that if they want to be on the phone all day they can start their own company. Although I don't have full ownership and full responsibilities of that, I have enough that make me miss showing up at 7am and leaving at 5pm and not having to think about a thing except the couch and my tv.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Frank P said:


> I had to fire my 2 oldest sons in order for them to get your point of view. A great work ethic is beautiful thing, your way ahead of the game. Happy Birthday.


I have fired 2 out of 3 of my boys at one time or another. One time the youngest had his panties so wadded up I couldn't take it ant more. He had to sit in the truck for the last half of the day. Geez we were just laying sod, seemed like fun to the rest of us. He was only 8 yrs old though.:laughing:

All three boys have great work ethics though. They have been off our payroll since they moved out. They all bought their own cars while in HS and paid for their insurance. We bought them a tank of gas per month if they had good grades. That is it.

No nail benders in the herd though. I wish I could have one of them in the shop with me now but I'll get over it someday.:laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Kids are lazy today.

I make my 4 year old girl help do everything. 
Hopefully she is learning some important things while she is young.
Usually folled by a trip for ice cream afterwards!!


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Kids are lazy today.
> 
> I make my 4 year old girl help do everything.
> Hopefully she is learning some important things while she is young.
> Usually folled by a trip for ice cream afterwards!!



Does she get some, too?? :laughing:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Kids are lazy today.
> 
> I make my 4 year old girl help do everything.
> Hopefully she is learning some important things while she is young.
> Usually folled by a trip for ice cream afterwards!!


I got a very good laugh from this, my daughter just turned 8yrs old in september. She's her me rant to mommy about work, and all the crap we all deal with, between no/slow pays, crap employee's, etc....So we were installing the privacey fence around my property earlier this year, jsut my brother whom i employ, myself, and my daughter. Well my brother has had ethic issues for awhile, he's just slow by nature, but i had a ball listening to my then 7yr old daughter get all up in his azz

"where have you been, you've have'nt done anything back here today"
"where'd you go this time, are you ever going to work today or do i have to do everything for you?"
"how many times are you going to go int he house and get a drink, papa and i are doing all the work and all you do is drink water"

So she gets it and see's it just as i do, and i just told him...now, am i such a dyckhead now that an 7yr old sees the same thing i see everyday and that's why i am constantly on your butt?

It's a curse IMO that she has my traits, she's turned off many of her friends because she's a take charge, takes no chit person, all the while her freinds are the typical worthless wastes of my oxygen with their lazy, good for nothing, give me hand out azzes that society has been unfortunate enought o become polluted with.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Tom R said:


> Does she get some, too?? :laughing:


Her favorite is a vanilla cone with sprinkles!!


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

IHI said:


> I got a very good laugh from this, my daughter just turned 8yrs old in september. She's her me rant to mommy about work, and all the crap we all deal with, between no/slow pays, crap employee's, etc....So we were installing the privacey fence around my property earlier this year, jsut my brother whom i employ, myself, and my daughter. Well my brother has had ethic issues for awhile, he's just slow by nature, but i had a ball listening to my then 7yr old daughter get all up in his azz
> 
> "where have you been, you've have'nt done anything back here today"
> "where'd you go this time, are you ever going to work today or do i have to do everything for you?"
> ...


 if there's any one good thing coming out of my lazy feel good pu$$y pathetic generation is there is more work for people like me.


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## NFPA 13 (Nov 6, 2009)

I think there was a loss of tradesmen (professionals) in the past years when times were good…

Times were good and workers didn’t have to care about the quality of work they installed…Only how much they got done in a day. 

Now that times are tough, companies such as the one I work for with professional installers which have always held high standards are thriving. 

Our success results from the following… attention to detail, a quality job, professionalism, and timely fashion we complete our jobs in. 

I call it as it is… If you’re no good then you’re no good and you will not make it! Time and references will only tell the longevity of your company….if you in no better terms (I really don’t care about your feelings) suck…then you suck and should find another line of work.

All I got to say is do a good job and you will keep busy.
Later


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## DCPP (Nov 22, 2009)

I think part of the problem with todays kids is they are very sheltered. With the internet, Email, instant messaging, text msgs and so forth kids are no longer communicating with others in the traditional sense. this leads to communication problems... On top of that, seems like most kids today have this grand old idea that they will go to college and get a good job and wont have to do hard physical labor.

I tried the whole 'office' job when I was 20. It sucked. I hated it. I couldnt stand it. I lasted 2 weeks. But todays kids, dont realise, that these 'good paying jobs' that they are told about in high school have all moved to India. Especially today with millions of people out of work... 

The other issue I have seen, first hand, is that the old school tradesman, who grew up and were working in the 40's 50's and 60's dont want to pass on the skill to the younger generation for fear that they will take their job. It takes a LONG time for an old tradesman to warm up to a youngin...And in alot of cases the young kid ends up getting pissed off at the old timer and either quits or moves on... so the skill doesnt get passed on. Its a two sided coin here. 

Yes, kids today are lazy... and for the most part useless.

However the old timers also dont want to teach. Especially old school plasterers. You get an old school plasterer to teach you, you are golden.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Part of the old timer deal is the've been around the block a time or two, and just like most of us can sniff out a bum, so can they. Why waste your time teaching anything to a person that does'nt give two chits's about what they're doing, they only reason they're there is to fill their time card with 40hrs and go. Or you could say all they're doing is training their competition, and we all know that most fools will work at a job juuuuust enough to get a tiny glimpse of the big picture, and then try to start their own business. 

I know there's good guys out there, i'm just frustrated with the process to find them, as are most of us. But the kids now days are an embarassment plain and simple.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

IHI said:


> It's a curse IMO that she has my traits, she's turned off many of her friends because she's a take charge, takes no chit person, all the while her freinds are the typical worthless wastes of my oxygen with their lazy, good for nothing, give me hand out azzes that society has been unfortunate enought o become polluted with.


 It's not a curse, so don't despair. You should hope she continues to rise above and excell at whatever she decides to pursue later in life. Too many times, the brightest kids of the bunch get dumbed down by their environment. Hopefully she will surround herself with people who share her interests and motivation.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

loneframer said:


> It's not a curse, so don't despair. You should hope she continues to rise above and excell at whatever she decides to pursue later in life. Too many times, the brightest kids of the bunch get dumbed down by their environment. Hopefully she will surround herself with people who share her interests and motivation.


I agree. My 3 YO granddaughter loves to spend time with me in the shop. I can sit on a stool and watch her for hours. She will grab a couple of boards, hold up an empty glue bottle...goo, goo, goo, grab some clamps and put them together. Everyone walks in and see pieces of board glued together and says WTF?:laughing: Little piles of sawdust here and there, Aly was here! She also likes t help my wife in the kitchen, wash the sliding glass door, when ever someone is doing anything she has to help....Always busy:thumbsup:


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Since all of you just whine about it but offer no solution, you're part of the problem.

The economy sucks. Few jobs. Now is the time to take a youngling under your belt and teach them your trade. That is how you fix the problem. Carry on, Gentlemen...


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

Well said cdat but the other problem is finding a youngling or eager helper that has the salt and ambition to want to learn. I have tried and tried but the pickins is slim. I can't tell you how many guys have quit and left there tool belt because they have figured this is too hard of a way to make a living. I think the answer is making the trades look more glamorous to attract more of the cream of the crop.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

wyoming 1 said:


> Well said cdat but the other problem is finding a youngling or eager helper that has the salt and ambition to want to learn. I have tried and tried but the pickins is slim. I can't tell you how many guys have quit and left there tool belt because they have figured this is too hard of a way to make a living. I think the answer is making the trades look more glamorous to attract more of the cream of the crop.


I've had a few of these kids tell me they want a job because construction is cool, construction is more manly, I'm tired of doing ***** work, etc....1-2 weeks and they're gone, and it's not even because i ride them hard, i'm very in tune to these kids soft emotional state nowadays....you try ribbing and flipping chit like we did/do with peers our own age, try that on these young kids...they cry their azzes off, take everything to heart, and if your lucky they wont try to kill you and then tell the courts they had all the emotional abuse they could take and snapped...to which the courts will feel sorry for them because we're the big bad guy that yelled at them for phucking up in the first place.....

Wee bit exagurated at the end....but i know there's other's here that have hired/fired/had as many people as i have quit, so i know i'm not the only one experiencing this crap. It's taken me 18yrs to find the 2 guys i have on my crew that are every bit as fluent and attentive as i am to detail, the rest all want $20/hr and are'nt worth minimum wage....hence why our trades our hard to teach, you cannot have a handbook that covers the scope unless you do one and only one thing, and even then, it seem each instance has it's own differences you have to conform to, and sadly, how many of you can actually say you've met alot of people you've hired that excel in common sense? I can say i've only ran across a few on my payroll over the years.


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## Stevelsc8721 (Feb 21, 2008)

*Trades*

My thoughts are this, since I was a kid mowing lawns in wealthy areas, I was always looked down upon because I did manual labor. They the clients said why not get an education, I did a degree in horticulture? 

They the clients trained their kids to go to school to get fancy degrees, gave them unlimited monies to blow, which they bought drugs and other things to get high.

They the clients were bailing out their kids from jail for every thing under the sun, while we were still working on their homes.

Most of my clients had kids, daughters that were forbidden to talk to me because of they the clients attitude that their daughters should never get involved with a manual labor type of guy.

I can't tell you how many times I would bring home their drunken daughters to their homes with a look of disgrace on their faces because I was in the same place that their precious daughter were.

So 30 years later we still work on they the clients homes with their daughters and sons living their with kids from all nations, no jobs and broke.

Well some they the clients ask me how do you do it? Do what, have a job? 

Well I asked them what is most important in life to be a success in business?

They the client stated an education, well I did two things that to a few they the clients couldn't believe. 1, I stated that I have an education, a Landscaper believe it or not. 2, I have learned to use my education and my hands.

Most of they the clients all instill in their children that an education is most important.

What I explained to them is that instead of using only one part of my self I have learned how to use my brain and my hands do perform a trade and not just use my fingers to type on a keyboard.

This is one of the major problems with a persons perception of people that work with their hands.

The kids today don't want to learn a trade because it is too demeaning and if they try to do it they want to be the boss in two weeks.

It's too easy to scam on the computer or sell unlicensed pharmacy products for profit. That is one of the reasons that all the illegals work in the trades and are taking our jobs away because of the they the peoples perception of Americans are too good to do manual labor, the common people should do it.

So I have sold the maintenance aspect of my business years ago and just perform design build for the they the people.

I will keep on going until I lay down to rest on that big green sod lawn in the sky

My 2 cents about trades.com


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Im not sure age has anything to do with it anymore. Im in my mid 20's and guys whom I have hired that are 10 years older than me are lazy and dont want to work. Kids that are my age are lazy and dont want to work. Kids that are younger dont want to work. Its nothing to do with age but just not NEEDING to work.

I remember when I was 17 and working under a guy who was 25 bitching at me because I was young and didn't know what I was doing and wouldve been considered lazy. The guy said "man, I wish I could find kids like me, kids who need to work to pay their rent and put groceries on the table. Kids who dont have a mom and dad to ask for money, or to ask to help bail them out. Kids who if they dont show up to work and do their job, will be out living on the street" Now it wasnt said in such nice of words or exactly like that but that thought has stuck with me.

Nowadays, it seems to matter what age you are, you can always be bailed out by someone.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

age is all relative,to a 17 yr old a guy 25 is an old guy

a guy 55 probably cant do the work output of a 25 yr old

but he will probably do it better

generally speaking


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

Cdat said:


> Since all of you just whine about it but offer no solution, you're part of the problem.
> 
> The economy sucks. Few jobs. Now is the time to take a youngling under your belt and teach them your trade. That is how you fix the problem. Carry on, Gentlemen...


 you can't just take a kid my age under your belt and teach him how to be a man. alot of people my age will reject the authority and stop showing up.


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## CharlesD (Feb 12, 2007)

By the time my oldest son was 14 he was wearing a tool belt and working right along besides everyone else on our jobs.
Some nosey, political correct, do good person living next door to a job we were doing turned me into the authorities for violating the child labor law and I had to make him quit or risk getting fined.
When I was 14 growing up on the farm I was plowing, disking, running combines and hay balers. No one ever accused my dad of violating child labor laws. We worked from daylight til dark. I had 2-3 hours of chores every day after school.
So, times have changed. In an effort to "protect" children, we punish them for being ambitious. It's ok for them to spend 12 hours a day playing video games but not ok for them to work with their dad on a job.
I know a person needs intelligence and should be able to think, but then again, Hard work never killed anyone. In fact, it makes a person stronger.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

...ahhh you are all just getting grumpy because you are getting old....:w00t::jester:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

TBFGhost said:


> ...ahhh you are all just getting grumpy because you are getting old....:w00t::jester:


 
dont look now but WE are all gettin oldarty:


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## NFPA 13 (Nov 6, 2009)

tomstruble said:


> dont look now but WE are all gettin oldarty:


Yes, we are growing older, but wiser none the less:thumbsup:


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

There one now . will be for a long long time in America. We have no national system that directs,guides and helps young people find a vocation that fits them.

We ve been so busy filling the corner office we forgot to train someone to build it.


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