# Subcontractor Etiquette Question



## Cascadia (Dec 4, 2017)

If a subcontractor is working for you on a residential remodel job site and a neighbor comes over while your sub is working asking for a bid on some work, is it proper etiquette (read: expected) for the sub to notify you and run the lead through you, the GC?

Context for my question:
I have a sub who has worked for me on 4 jobs, with 2 more starting in the next 2 weeks. They do good work, provide fair pricing, are reliable and I enjoy working with them. The sub's father works for him and we all know each other by name. While I was on site at a current remodel, the father told me the sub would be right back because he was at the neighbor's because they wanted a bid on something. 

It wasn't like he was hiding anything, but when my sub got back, he didn't mention it to me or bring the lead up as an opportunity. The way I've always conducted business, it seems like he should have notified me and, without hesitation, I would have given him the job if we won the business.

What are your expectations in situations like this?

I'm very fair and always try to be above board, so I want to make sure I set the expectations with all of my subs appropriately.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Never has happened to me but I know guys it has happened to.

Even had to mediate a couple...to keep blood from being spilled...

What I have figured out from this is that the expectation has to be set when the job is awarded to them.

Everyone knows the rules up front not much left to argue about....:thumbsup:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

You don't own the neighbors lol. 

I have a sub who is also doing some generaling, if a neighbor talks to him he seems to bring it up to me. I always tell him good job, go get em buddy. I refer him work also, meeting a friend of a friend to introduce them this Tuesday evening for a nice addition and barn I can't get to. 

Work we do together is work we together. Work we don't together we don't do together lol. If i called tomorrow and said we are building a house 3 hrs a way hed gear a team up for me. Always come through for me and I for him

If it was a client id likely not be to kindly about a sub who works for them behind my back but id fire the client anyway so it's a wash, other than finding out if a trade partner has any ethics. Life's to short for cheap skate clients. 

I did fire a framer back in the day for building a carport for a past client. I was pretty petty I guess, but I was 27 - 28. Lol. On the other hand I would expect a call and feel like that's fair if its a long term partnership 





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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

He's a sub not your employee.

What's the problem?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> He's a sub not your employee.
> 
> What's the problem?


It's MY job...that is the problem....& MY rules...:thumbsup:

Like I said I have never had the problem....


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I'd have zero issue with a sub taking on a job in the neighborhood. In fact it would make me happy to see them get work out of working on one of my jobs. 

However, anyone of my subs would more than likely tell me about it. Not to give me a heads up, but just for conversation. I certainly wouldn't require it, or get a head trip about it. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

griz said:


> It's MY job...that is the problem....& MY rules...
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said I have never had the problem....




I'd have a problem with a sub taking on work from my customer, without talking to me first.


Mike.
_______________


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Agreed 100% with Griz. It's the generals lead and his sign at the road. 

Personally never been concerned with it and probably never will be. There's a reason one way or another I didn't get the call from the neighbor so it is just saving me time and glad to see the subs stay busy. 

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Especially if you never brought it up. Common courtesy. 

Ken will be here soon to bash the builders lol


Californiadecks said:


> I'd have zero issue with a sub taking on a job in the neighborhood. In fact it would make me happy to see them get work out of working on one of my jobs.
> 
> However, anyone of my subs would more than likely tell me about it. Not to give me a heads up, but just for conversation. I certainly wouldn't require it, or get a head trip about it.
> 
> ...


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## Cascadia (Dec 4, 2017)

I appreciate all of the points of view. I was reluctant to share my perspective in the initial post, but it's obvious what my stance is. 

Life is about building relationships and when you have long lasting, strong relationships, you can do a lot more than just living each day on what everyone can do for you. This is why I've hired my sub as many times as I have and why he provides me with fair pricing. I know we won't always be on the same page every time, but usually we see eye to eye. My key takeaway from this is to be upfront about my expectations with my subs, so things like this are mitigated.

My sub wouldn't have been there if it weren't for me winning this job and hiring him to complete the work. I would expect him to let me know about the lead and, without hesitation, I would hire him if I won the work and it was something within his wheelhouse.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> I'd have zero issue with a sub taking on a job in the neighborhood. In fact it would make me happy to see them get work out of working on one of my jobs.
> 
> However, anyone of my subs would more than likely tell me about it. Not to give me a heads up, but just for conversation. I certainly wouldn't require it, or get a head trip about it.
> 
> ...


A sub as a plumber, sparkie , roofer etc, I'd have no issue with but have always got a heads up.

I have never had a sub as a GC on a job.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

griz said:


> It's MY job...that is the problem....& MY rules...:thumbsup:
> 
> Like I said I have never had the problem....


You don't own the neighbors, it's still the sub's name on his truck.

Picture this, I'm working at a house for a GC, a neighbor sees my truck, walks up to me and says "Hey, I see you do X well I need X done at my place, can you pop by and give me a price?"

Do I say "sure, I'll swing by at lunch" or do I say "no, you have to talk to the GC, he's in charge"


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> I'd have a problem with a sub taking on work from my customer, without talking to me first.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


That's different, that's poaching your client....this is a random neighbor walking up to a guy working.



Cascadia said:


> I appreciate all of the points of view. I was reluctant to share my perspective in the initial post, but it's obvious what my stance is.
> 
> Life is about building relationships and when you have long lasting, strong relationships, you can do a lot more than just living each day on what everyone can do for you. This is why I've hired my sub as many times as I have and why he provides me with fair pricing. I know we won't always be on the same page every time, but usually we see eye to eye. My key takeaway from this is to be upfront about my expectations with my subs, so things like this are mitigated.
> 
> My sub wouldn't have been there if it weren't for me winning this job and hiring him to complete the work. I would expect him to let me know about the lead and, without hesitation, I would hire him if I won the work and it was something within his wheelhouse.


And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Some random person approaching a contractor is their lead despite where that occurs.


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## B.Johnson (Sep 17, 2016)

If you don't own it, you don't control it.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I worked with a "paper contractor" for around 7 years. He did low voltage work, cameras and WL LAN. His company was separate from mine. We're the electrical contractor, he was a unlicensed hack. 

He never really understood how things worked, and, wouldn't know a screw driver from a hammer. His expertise came from reading sales brochures and repeating the information. 

Nonetheless, his partner sold high end camera systems to her friends and neighbors. I worked with him, so I got called in to figure out how to make things work, out of the F'd up plans and specs that this guy and his gal pal partner came up with. 

So after doing a system at a residential client of his, the client asked me if I could do some high voltage electrical work at his house. I said sure, no problem. I told the "paper contractor" this and he said, "well you are going to pay me 10% of your price to this client, because he is our client and not yours". Plus I had to hire one of his lackeys to help on the job @ 2x the pay he was getting from the "paper guy". 

I went ahead with all this, but not too happy about it. However the thing is: I would have never met the client if it wasn't for the contractor. And, even though the "paper contractor" still doesn't know AC from DC current, his complete ignorance doesn't get me off the hook.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Depends...

I guess over time, the relationship with your subs is the real divining line... we feed each other, so it's not like one is out to get one over on the other...

But more generally, if my yard placard and vehicle didn't specify "electrical services", and a neighbor saw my electricians truck which specified those services that he was interested in, his advertising did it's job and attracted a potential buyer that otherwise most likely wouldn't have come over... 

No different than if we're at the supply shop together getting something for a job he's subbing for us and a customer saw his truck... I don't get to claim it just because he's technically working on our job at the time (i.e. - "we wouldn't have been here if you didn't need something for our job")...

Even if the subs truck wasn't there, if that same neighbor came over and asked about electrical services for a referral, I'd be hand them one of my subs cards... and for most items, we actually spec and price out a lot of our subs work as part of our projects... as part of our project that's one thing, a stand-alone is another and not the business we're in and good-will towards one another pays better... :thumbsup:

*
Another thought*... If the discussion with that neighbor turned from just standalone electrical services to more full scale remodel services, we'd be the recipient of that business and we'd already have an "in" on two levels...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> You don't own the neighbors, it's still the sub's name on his truck.
> 
> Picture this, I'm working at a house for a GC, a neighbor sees my truck, walks up to me and says "Hey, I see you do X well I need X done at my place, can you pop by and give me a price?"
> 
> Do I say "sure, I'll swing by at lunch" or do I say "no, you have to talk to the GC, he's in charge"


As you will probably know after the years on the board together, and it's not something I would be okay with, but I have known several Builders, many who you would be ecstatic to work for I'm sure as a low voltage contractor who expect their subs to give them a kick back off of return work for their clients. Like if the painter goes back and repaint the house that they built they will say remember to throw something on there for me.

Agree with it or not, what Griz said holds true it is the generals rules and he will decide who goes to the next job. So if that guy wants to stay in there Graces of the GC who thinks he owns the street or all of the future work for a homeowner he should certainly give him a heads up or could possibly lose hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars of work over years and decades.

While subs and builders are a team the builder sets the roster. On the other hand the sub could say **** off plenty of other builders lol

I learned a long time ago tonight expect anything from anyone as far as giving me leads, referring work or anything else. I see guys get Petty and upset about s*** like this all the time, upset their Banker gave another Builder a referral, what's at The LumberYard gave the name of another guy out, yada yada yada. I take care of myself and expect everyone else to do the same. If they like me and want to refer me I appreciate it and if they do good work I'll return the favor, if not there is another job waiting.


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## Stryker1-1 (Dec 25, 2017)

The way I look at it is you hired the sub to do a job ad long as they aren't off quoting it while they are on the clock for you its not your lead.

I've had customers approach me while I'm working as a subcontractor. I don't bring it to the attention of the people who contracted me the lead came to me not them it's my lead not theirs.

As a sub I don't work for you we have a business relationship and I need to keep my business running just like you do.

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## Stryker1-1 (Dec 25, 2017)

So by the perspective of they wouldn't have been there if I didn't hire them I should give the city a heads up every time I get a lead stopped at a red light after all had the light been green I wouldn't have gotten the lead. 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

cwatbay said:


> I worked with a "paper contractor" for around 7 years. He did low voltage work, cameras and WL LAN. His company was separate from mine. We're the electrical contractor, he was a unlicensed hack.
> 
> He never really understood how things worked, and, wouldn't know a screw driver from a hammer. His expertise came from reading sales brochures and repeating the information.
> 
> ...


I have no trouble paying a bird dog fee in situations like that, but when I'm a sub for a company who does the same work, I tell their client to contact them because I won't deal directly as I don't poach clients.



Jaws said:


> As you will probably know after the years on the board together, and it's not something I would be okay with, but I have known several Builders, many who you would be ecstatic to work for I'm sure as a low voltage contractor who expect their subs to give them a kick back off of return work for their clients. Like if the painter goes back and repaint the house that they built they will say remember to throw something on there for me.
> 
> Agree with it or not, what Griz said holds true it is the generals rules and he will decide who goes to the next job. So if that guy wants to stay in there Graces of the GC who thinks he owns the street or all of the future work for a homeowner he should certainly give him a heads up or could possibly lose hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars of work over years and decades.
> 
> ...


Like I said, I have no trouble paying a kickback, but I won't do it for some random guy who happens to approach me on one of your jobsites.


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## Adamthebuilder (Apr 14, 2016)

It has been my experience, that when a neighbor approaches an employee or sub directly one one of my jobs, they are cheap and trying to bypass me and save some money. If they pressure the tradesman or sub, then it is someone I don’t want to work with. Those prospects will also chisel down the trades too!


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## DCDEVINC (May 25, 2017)

It’s about loyalty, and trust... My guys get requests all the time but if they are on my job when it happens the response is always basically “talk to the boss here is his number... there he is.. etc”guys bring jobs to me all the time. Most I say no way but if it’s good for them I’ll basically let them do it and run it.. because it’s my license I need to supervise and I pay them as if it’s my job with a 20% bonus for pulling it in.

If I knew one of my guys made a deal with a client and didn’t tell me. It’s the last job he’ll do for me. I won’t stand for it.


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## B.Johnson (Sep 17, 2016)

The question was subcontractors, not employees.


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## Mike-B (Feb 11, 2015)

If a neighboring business asked one of my subs to do some work for them, I wouldn't be bothered by that in the least.

If MY client asked the sub to do some additional work, that's a total different story.


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