# Questions about epoxy grout



## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

I've got an issue with water getting under tile on an exterior porch we did about two years ago. It has popped a few tiles and a large amount of salt is draining out. 

My boss is thinking the whole thing needs to be ripped up and redone 

I was wondering if epoxy grout might stop the water penetration?

Do they make an epoxy grout suitable for exterior use?


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

You're wanting a product to be as viscous as water, not gonna happen. Water will find its way anywhere.

Not sure if epoxy grout is uv stable.

Could/probably not installed up to specs. Needs soft expansion joints, prepped substrate for bond, coverage of tile 95%. Proper drainage. Perimeter expansion joints, I probably missed some more things.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

If spec'd properly, the water penetration shouldn't be that big of an issue. There are products that will allow a successful install. Guessing you're in ATL, so freeze/thaw shouldn't be an issue. Why do you say salt is coming out?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Exterior porch - a wooden deck? a concrete patio? What type of tile?


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys,

It's a second story roof deck. Talked to the PM who was in charge at the time. He said its cantilevered joists with about 2" of pitch in about 5'. Subfloor, torch down membrane, then he doesn't remember if it's a mud bed or ditra, thinset (don't know what kind) then wood plank porcalain tile. 
Don't know what kind of grout either. 

I've got to call the tile guy and see if her remembers. 

Usually freeze/thaw is not a big deal here, but this past winter was unusually cold and rainy. Rained/iced during the day and dropped well below freezing at night. 

I'm going to be there Wednesday of next week and I'll take some pics. 

It's a hard white substance coming out, my boss called it salt. 

How would you guys approach this job to make it bulletproof?


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Let's call it efflorescence coming from the portland underneath which is common problem as moisture moves bringing minerals to surface .


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## Akisapost (Apr 17, 2015)

Epoxy grout is not UV stable, and will probably start to yellow and chalk after a few months. However it should hold up for a few years but definitely not a long-term solution. You could also consider coating over the tiles with a clear urethane UV stable sealer.
However your first job is to figure out where the water is getting in. 90% of the time its around the edges and the joints


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> Let's call it efflorescence coming from the portland underneath which is common problem as moisture moves bringing minerals to surface .


Just googled "efflorescence" that's exactly it. Thanks :thumbsup:

Akisapost: 

Now that you mention it, the siding wasn't flashed against the porch and the membrane is visible on the low side.... Might be part of it.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Fingersmasher said:


> ...
> How would you guys approach this job to make it bulletproof?


I don't know if you can make it bulletproof, but what I would do is this:

Remove what's there. If you didn't do it, then you have no assurance that anything you do on top will prevent a re-occurence.
Lay Ditra, and flash properly everywhere around the edges, to keep water from getting underneath. Use Schluter or other trims around any exposed edges, to protect them from water and damage.
Set tile with thinset. You shouldn't have much efflorescence from a good thinset bed. Deal with any unevenness underneath the Ditra, so you aren't building up thickness when you're setting the tile.
Choose a different tile. You didn't say exactly, but using a thin, large-format residential wood-plank-style tile is asking for trouble.
Use a urethane grout if you want. Epoxy does eventually degrade with exposure to UV, but the world's full of fiberglass/epoxy boats that have survived for decades. We use cementitious grouts in most exterior projects.
Caulk, don't grout, around the edges. Sikaflex or equivalent hi-mod urethane caulk.
Plan to replace tiles sometimes. Water will get under the tile, and if you have freeze-thaw cycles, may pop or crack tiles every once in a while.


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

Headed over there today to do a clean up, I'll snap some pics.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Agree with everything Bob said except use Deck Drain or Troba instead of Ditra.

http://www.schluter.com/ditra-drain.aspx

http://www.schluter.com/7_1_troba.aspx

Tom


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

The problem sounds like no flashing. Flash edges and wall connection.

As stated, epoxy isn't UV stable. Choose urethane, Fusion or Mapei has high cement content grout for exterior use if you choose to replace.

I like Noble deck over exterior mudbed for exteriors.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I agree with Olzo, I would like a sheet membrane for exterior application. Ditra has the waffles that in an exterior application can hold moisture for longer than necessary. 

I tiled my own concrete porch. I used NobleSeal TS installed with Noble EXT. I installed porcelain tile with Kerabond/Keralastic. Grouted with urethane. It's been through 3 freeze/thaw cycles and no issues.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

CarpenterSFO said:


> [*]Lay Ditra, and flash properly everywhere around the edges, to keep water from getting underneath.


If it's properly flashed, there's no reason to use ditra.
If it's improperly/not flashed, there's no reason to use ditra.

 You guys and your ditra. 
It's not a replacement for knowledge or skills, no matter how schluter markets it.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

angus242 said:


> Ditra has the waffles that in an exterior application can hold moisture for longer than necessary.




Exactly!! Also, Noble is thicker. Make sure to lay Noble so seams drain,


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

Hey guys, here's what it looks like






















I spent all day Tuesday trying to clean that efflorescence off of the shingles to no avail. Got smart and decided that replacing the shingles would be much more cost effective. Doing that tomorrow. 

I appreciate the info on how you guys would reinstall this. 

I'm going to add that this is all warranty work, the company I work for is footing the bill on this one.


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

What I'm thinking is that the majority of the water is getting in on the sides where you can see the torch down membrane in the second pic. 

We might flash the sides, caulk and see before we tear it up and start fresh. 

But if we do have to go that route, no mud bed. 

Is there a thinset made for exterior applications that will not leach?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

What will the tile be adhered to?


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## Fingersmasher (May 28, 2013)

angus242 said:


> What will the tile be adhered to?


It sounds like Nobel is the preferred substrate, so that would be my suggestion to my boss based on what you guys have said.


Unless I misunderstood, which is known to happen.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

What is the Noble going over?

Sorry to drag this out but it all makes a difference.


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