# Don't do anything?



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Just tell the guy you want to swap jobs with him. And who ever can't do the job gets fired. 

Then you tell him this week you are in need of a job that will bring in $50,000 so you can make payroll, taxes and repairs. Then throw him the keys to the air conditioned truck and tell him to come back with a signed contract.

Don't give him any instructions on where to look for this money/job. It is part of your job and he thinks all you do is ride around in the truck. See how fast his mind changes when his job is on the line.

If he goes out and gets that $50K job, give him his own truck and make him a salesman.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I hate the pat on the back statement. These are grown men. What is this generation coming to? I never got a pat on the back. My pat on the back was always that my paycheck cleared and I still had my job tomorrow. :thumbup:



I don't give a **** how old they are, everyone wants to be treated with respect & acknowledged that they've done a good job for you. This thread is a prime example. It started because your guys didn't give you the respect & acknowledgemnt you felt you deserved.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

A couple of years ago when work was plentiful I would agree 100% with your statement. But today when work is scarce and having a job in the construction field is even more rare. Just the fact of having a job should be good enough. The back patting would be a bonus Getting a check and having work to earn that check is really nice in this construction climate. 

If working on the weekends is something of the norm then getting a pat on the back for doing your job is something I wouldn't expect. But if it is something of a rarity then some nice words and maybe a few extra buck would be appreciated.


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

I told a customer about that one time. I showed up around 10-11 am while my guy was there every morning for 8. She tells me something to effect of "boy, you have it easy getting here this late everyday, you must really enjoy getting to spend that much time with your kids". I had to laugh and explain I'm gone every morning before anyone else is up and I typically dont get home before 6pm. Just because I'm not on site doesn't mean I'm sitting in my pajamas drinking coffee and reading the paper. Turns out she was kidding anyway but I got a good laugh out of it.


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## KnottyWoodwork (May 23, 2010)

It's a tough call here, it's all in the context/tone that it was said in. Me being the smarta$$ that I am, I *KNOW* I've said this comment more than a few times. So far all but one time, the person got that it was in a joking manner. For me it's actually a bit of a compliment. I know running around in the truck all day making deals is hard work, but if I say thanks in a standard way, it's more of a butt kissing than a compliment.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

As I said, I am not really bothered by it UNTIL the guy who said it decides to call in an hour after he is supposed to start


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

pinwheel said:


> I don't give a **** how old they are, everyone wants to be treated with respect & acknowledged that they've done a good job for you. This thread is a prime example. It started because your guys didn't give you the respect & acknowledgment you felt you deserved.


I don't deserve acknowledgment for doing my job. I chose to start my own company and do what it takes to be successful. 

What I do deserve is respect. 

Respect and acknowledgment are two different animals. I respect all employees. They are never told do anything I would never do, never put in unsafe situations and never looked down on.

Everyone is too caught up on get rewarded and acknowledged for doing what they are supposed to do and it is becoming rampant in society. We now have GRADUATION ceremonies for EIGHTH graders around here. Same thing is happening in the work place. 
_
Congratulations sir, you worked all 40 hours for me this week just like you were supposed to. I know the money isn't good enough to show my appreciation for you so here, have a bonus and a :thumbup:_

As I said, that isn't how I was taught, my father or his father were taught. I learned from them. Put your head down, do your job, if you don't like it QUIT but *not until you get another one*.

For what it is worth, I put an add out on the CL looking for roofers, and listed the pay. Tons of replies so far so I might add some fuel and switch things up a bit.

I think I am becoming angry 

Rant over


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I don't deserve acknowledgment for doing my job. I chose to start my own company and do what it takes to be successful.
> 
> What I do deserve is respect.
> 
> ...


Sure must be nice to drive around all day talking on the cell phone in your air conditioned truck. Probably had a nice breakfast at the diner too. :laughing:

I think most of us have heard that. It bugs me a little, but I know better.

Some of these guys just think that anything other than strapping on a toolbelt and climbing up on the roof isn't work.

You already know these guys aren't there to be your friends. As long as they do their job and don't create a problem with other worker's attitudes you just move forward. There isn't a whole lot you need to talk to the rank and file about. Let your foreman put the grind on him

As far as a "pat on the back".... I feel good when I give a worker a gesture of gratitude for a good job. It bugs the hell out of me when they ask for it.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

They have no idea that we have to get up at 5 AM, get the truck loaded, drop off a bid on the way, stop by the yard and pick up a few things, go to the other job and get a couple of picks/ladders, and still arrive 5 minutes early on most days.

My truck does not have AC though, so I am in good with the guys!


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## MikeGC (Dec 6, 2008)

Mr Latone said:


> Some of these guys just think that anything other than strapping on a toolbelt and climbing up on the roof isn't work.


You nailed it and that goes for some customers too

not on site = not working


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

Call him at midnight when you are still working on a bid.

"Oh sorry you still asleep? Anyway I will be up another hour or so and was wondering how many hours you think I should calc in? You still there? Well I see you at 5am. Sleep good!"


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## ContractorDFW (Apr 26, 2011)

I have dealt with this several times from various employee's. I have dealt with it by politely explaining that doing the work is the easy part, finding and organizing the work to make profit is the hard part. I then went on to explain that if my job was so easy, then why are they not doing what I do, after all its "easy". They generally think about it for a second or two, and then laugh it off and get back to work.:thumbsup:


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

pinwheel said:


> Before I became my own boss, the bosses I respected the most & learned the most from, were those that weren't afraid to do anything they assigned for me to do. Today, when I hire help, I'm not scared to get in & sweat.


Same here. Lead from the front. I learned in the Navy that the most respected Officers and NCOs would roll up sleeves and get dirty when the team needed it or their ability to lead was in question. Once I became one of them I told my guys regularly that I'd never ask of them what I wasn't prepared to give myself. That being said being the boss has its privileges too - sometimes you have to tell em to suck it up and deal with it, or run their own damned crew.


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## blast4cash (Jan 27, 2010)

Mabey he does realize how hard you work and is just a smarta$$. Now stop worring and get get back in the A/C:laughing:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

BamBamm5144 said:


> The guys worked Saturday until about 2 to finish up a job. I went to pick up the trailer and the guys say to me "Must be nice to never have to do anything besides drive around in the air conditioned truck".
> 
> I am thinking of doing an experiment this week where I REALLY don't do a thing.
> 
> How do you think that would turn out?


I'm baffled that any employee would have the balls to say something like that to an employer. Any employee that stupid, to #1 have the balls to say something like that to their boss or #2 being so stupid to actually think that about you pretty much would have a hard time having his job for long. Being that disrespectful is enough for me to be looking for his replacement, if that's not reason enough, being that dumb to actually think that a guy doing the construction work a company does is more important then running the company is so dumb I'd be scared what else he is too dumb to know how to do.

I'm even more baffled by anybody saying you should show up and 'out work him' for the day. 

As an owner your time is worth $200 to $300 an hour. Doing the work for the day for somebody contributing 1/10th the value to show 'you stilll got it" is the sign of you're an idiot.

Of course it's nice to do nothing other than drive around in an A/C truck all day. You didn't work your way up to your position from his position for nothing did you?:laughing:

Every employer should know that no matter what you might think otherwise, no matter the employee - to some degree they all think you are #1 Rich, #2 Over paid, #3 Take advantage of them, #4 Take advantage of your customers, and of course #5 they all think they could run the business better then you.

But the one stupid enough to voice any of that should be made an example of.

If you have dead weight on the crew, its Adios idiot, nows your chance to go out on your own and show everybody how easy it is. If you need the guy then you should have at the very least gave him a few days off without pay, have him think about how disrespectful his attitude is for a few days.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

It is nice to drive in a a/c truck.

If it wasn't why would we own businesses?:laughing:


I could go work at 5 different companies tomorrow morning if I wanted to be a "worker only"



I've told my boss It must be nice to drive around all day in a new truck when I was an employee, a couple of times.

But I was the most productive worker on my crew, so my job was safe.

besides I did not mean it as an insult, more of a envious statement.

Like "jeez your new f350 is sweet".


As far as patting your guys on the back, IMO, It's a simple $$$ issue


You are not there most of the time right?
Do you want happy workers with positive thoughts towards you when you are absent?

Or do you want guys who are pissed that you are taskmaster?


I've been in both shoes, and trust me, when I am pissed at the boss, or feel unappreciated. As soon as the tail lights dissapear, the work slows WAY down.

I still remember one time the boss brought coffee one sat morning, and thanked us for working the weekend, I was at least 25% more productive that day. 

So at $250/day I produced an extra $60 worth of work for $1.

If he was not around, and acted like I owed him some huge debt of gratitude for working for him I may have produced $200 of work in the day.

My point is, We are human, if we feel needed and appreciated we will produce more and be happier doing it.
If we are treated like we are easily replaceable, and no more or less valuable than any other shlep on the street, (even if that is the case) morale suffers, and we look for a different job.

At least I did.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't see a problem with the comment, we've all thought it when we we're young and ignorant. I bet most of you have left early on the friday afternoon and gone fishing, without telling your workers. The stress of running a business far outweighs any perks, and hour wise, we still put in more than any hourly worker even if we take off early and go fishing (I have never actually done that because I have no life, and besides I'm always worried that someone is going to get hurt when help is on the site, so I wouldn't enjoy myself anyway)


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Same here. Lead from the front. I learned in the Navy that the most respected Officers and NCOs would roll up sleeves and get dirty when the team needed it or their ability to lead was in question. Once I became one of them I told my guys regularly that I'd never ask of them what I wasn't prepared to give myself. That being said being the boss has its privileges too - sometimes you have to tell em to suck it up and deal with it, or run their own damned crew.


The only people who should be leading from the front are your leads.

In business the fastest way to remain unsuccessful it to believe this -
"I told my guys regularly that I'd never ask of them what I wasn't prepared to give myself. "

If you're an owner who works in the field as part of the crew then this entire thread isn't relevant to your situation. If you're an owner who works in the field as part of the crew, but wants to grow to the point that they never work in the field, you're screwed if you believe: "I told my guys regularly that I'd never ask of them what I wasn't prepared to give myself. "

You can't get out of the field if you don't commit to it. To get out of the field means you have to establish very clearly defined rolls with very clearly defined responsibilities, and you have to fill those positions with very capable people and let them do their jobs. 

(I'm telling you right now the OP doesn't have the right people in those positions, that's obvious based on the thread existing, and there is a ton of other issues going on with these guys that haven't even been brought up yet)

If you have the right people in the right clearly defined rolls you have no need to lead them by doing the work they do. You lead them by successfully providing a businesses that gives them a job to go to everyday. Show them respect, pay them an honest wage, pay them on time, provide them with security and the posibility to achieve more in life. If you do that you absolutely can forget about having to show them you can do what they do.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Mike, I appreciate your posts.

To make it clear, the guy who said this is just a regular installer and he was standing by a laborer. Foreman and other guys around longer didn't hear it and he would've never said it if they were around.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Thanks for the advise Mike. I am in the field a bunch, and appreciate what you just posted


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Last year when I started my company in March I always thought I need to be on the job site at all times physically working. I would get one, maybe two roofs done a week, then maybe have nothing to do for another week or two, then get another one or two roofs and so on.

Then I had to have my surgery and thought I would be screwed since I wouldn't be able to work on the job. Luckily, one of the guys I worked with could be left on his own and handle everything. I signed a few jobs when my hand was in my cast.

Since I couldn't work physically, I spent a lot of time looking over things, where to advertise, how to advertise, what to spend, how to get the money , etc. Ever since April of this year I have been staying really busy with work. Since focusing on this end of stuff, I have increased gross sales over 215% from the same March to July 1st period of 2010. I know have the time to do all the other stuff.

When jobs last longer, I can see being on the job but when I need two to three a week, I have to get out there and do this stuff. I could go back to where I was but I don't want to and it doesn't help that the surgery only worsened the pain.


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## catfish (Jul 19, 2007)

BrandConst said:


> Perfectly stated. A business owner that wants to grows his company and increase it's revenue, never sits on a job. :no:
> 
> I can have anywhere from 1 to 8 jobs going on at any given time, on top of that there is so much more to manage other than the jobs you have going on.
> 
> Managing a job and managing a company are two different things. It sounds like this guys boss is managing a job.


Not everyone wants a huge company, he's not always there, thats in my post. Oh and we are busy. I manage any job he's not on, mostly the exterior work. Thats my preference.


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## Remodelmaine (Jul 4, 2011)

I tell my guys when they say that, here is my phone and laptop, make sure you answer the 75 emails and the 35 calls, and make sure that the materials that are needed are ordered. When MrsJones calls tonite and says that what we did today isnt quite right make sure you run right over and look and make her happy. So then when I reach put my hand with my phone in and say "here" they say no way!


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Well, I haven't read all the responses (guilty!) but personally for me, my response would depend on how the statement was intended.

You seem like you're on pretty good terms with your lead, maybe he was kidding around and the best thing to do would be to laugh it off, and tell him you'd gladly trade jobs for a week if he thinks he can keep the work coming in, jobs running smooth, and the bills paid 

If he meant it as an indictment of you being lazy ... then just tell the guy that you are running a business, and you don't have to justify yourself to him, but he certainly does have to justify himself to you.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Could you imagine a business similar to yours, but larger where you wouldn't work in the field at all?
> 
> What would that business be like? How much more gross sales would it do? Would it do a majority of different sized or types of projects then it does now? Would it require a sales person or an office staffer? Are there people capable of taking your place in the field?


To add to what Catfish said.... not everyone lives in a huge city either.


There are queen bee's, worker bee's, and a whole new breed that can do it all.
Look out _paperboys_. :whistling


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

MJW said:


> To add to what Catfish said.... not everyone lives in a huge city either.
> 
> 
> There are queen bee's, worker bee's, and a whole new breed that can do it all.
> Look out _paperboys_. :whistling


No need to defend yourself. The thread's responses are to those who are not in the field, and companies that do want to be bigger.

If your situation doesn't apply, the replies weren't directed at you, nor are they relevant, no need to be defensive. Just go the thread about posting fake reviews on the web, it's way more entertaining.:laughing:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Last year when I started my company in March I always thought I need to be on the job site at all times physically working. I would get one, maybe two roofs done a week, then maybe have nothing to do for another week or two, then get another one or two roofs and so on.
> 
> Then I had to have my surgery and thought I would be screwed since I wouldn't be able to work on the job. Luckily, one of the guys I worked with could be left on his own and handle everything. I signed a few jobs when my hand was in my cast.
> 
> ...


Impressive, in a little over a year you've gotten so far. Have you been staying on top of your financial statements and seeing results? How did you advertise when you were in your cast? How did you spend your money? What are the things you did that stood out that you think really made a difference?

I assume the guy who told you that you weren't doing anything was joking, I would just laugh. If he was serious, that shows how smart he is and how far he will get, it won't be very far.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I assume the guy who told you that you weren't doing anything was joking, I would just laugh. If he was serious, that shows how smart he is and how far he will get, it won't be very far.


Exactly - if the guy was serious, he will never be competition, he will always be your worker.


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## FlatworkGuy (Jul 25, 2010)

Chris Johnson said:


> Every once in a while I get a smart ass like that...I make it a point to be on site the following day, and I'm there first before anyone, and then I work, and I can work when needed and I'm efficient when I work. I'll work the whole day and I show up the smart ass, as a matter of fact, I ride his ass hard. Usually the apology comes in about mid morning but I finish the day.
> 
> About lunch I make it a point to let the guy with his tail between his legs know that my job is to run the business but if he wants me on site then I don't need him. Once, maybe twice a year this action is needed.


Well said .. Well said indeed ..

I had a 23 year old last year do this sort of thing ..

I didn't really ride his ass as hard as the guilt trip I put him on that day.

We had a 1,200 sq ft driveway pour that day, and I usually leave 3 guys on something like that .. 2 can handle the finish, but I feel better with 3 ..

Anyway, so instead, I send the guys on to the next scheduled pour, keeping the kid with me .. truck shows up, and I tell the kid to just "sit over there and watch" .. Don't lift a finger .. just watch.

So he watches as I place and finish the 1,200 ft by myself.

Any good concrete finisher should be able to do 950 ft by himself anyway, and another couple of hundred feet didn't really make a difference.

The drivers all knew what I could do .. but the kid didn't, until he actually saw it for himself.

After it was all said and done, I got the apology .. and with the apology came a question .. he asked, "Do you think I'll get good enough at this to be able to do what you just did?" ..

I told him, "Kid, if you get good enough to do what I just did, I'll make you the job boss" ..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I catch a little crap from a.few.of our subs that my old man has been using for a long time. They literally watched me grow up on the jobsites they were working on, and as I never got any positions I didn't earn, it is never malicious. When I started running all the production in the feild, and started spending more time in the office and truck, I get the "must be nice" stuff every now and again. It doesn't bother me, its not a respect issue, sometimes its their way of saying good for you. 

No person is entitled to respect because of the position they hold, atleast not the kind that counts, it has to be earned. Saying you demand respect is infantile. Showing respect and having respect are different as well. I believe I earn the respect i get, and will.continue to do so, because I do what needs to be done, and I do it well. If my crew is behind and needs a hand digging footers, there is a shovel in my truck off and I will use it. If they are doing a trim out and need a hand, I still have a tool belt and will use it. If I say I will do something I do it, and when I send someone to do something everything they need to do the job ( info, materials, ext) it is there and staged. If I put a deadline on them that will be hard to hit, I work side by side with them, and lead from the front.
O
I don't walk around kissing their ass, and buy lunch everytime they do their job, but I will give a sincere appreciation for superior craft skill, and hard.work, every know and then a 6 pack of their favorite beer on a friday, or let them knock off early every now ans again. Everyone wants to be appreciated, and when they deserve it, show them. 

Thia post was not directed at the op, just in general to several posts. I think Bamm was just venting, and I think a lot of posters made way to big a deal about the laborers comment. Most employees will never know what it is like on the other side. Boo fing Hoo. I was.raised by a hard working contractor and thought the same thing about my bosses sometimes, its normal for workers to think the HMFIC has it made. JAW


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

jawtrs said:


> I was.raised by a hard working contractor and thought the same thing about my bosses sometimes, its normal for workers to think the HMFIC has it made. JAW


Thinking it and saying it are two way different things, and the issue.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> Thinking it and saying it are two way different things, and the issue.


That is true, I guess it would depend on the context for me. JAW


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## jlyons (Apr 17, 2011)

so sorry to burst some bubbles yeah yeah they guy may have been disrespectful not saying that was good but you are not the president either. yeah you pay him but only cause he makes you money or will or something to that effect not cause you are kind hearted sweety. you want him to do a good job and make you money. now about that i am with hughjazz on that one. i can;t figure out why more people can't seem to do the math. buy a coffee, coke whatever and get increased production. works like a charm. doesn't have to be every day. once a week, when it is really hot or cold out. try it. you can i shouldn't have to blah blah blah but hey it works. they are happy and you can buy a bigger yacht.


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## Flimmer (Dec 1, 2005)

I hate BS like this but you know it's part of the job as a Contractor. Tell them they are more then welcome to go out and get there contractors license, pay the insurance, do the permit work, oh and after work they can go to the scheduled estimates with the home owners at 6:00 PM because that's the only time the home owner can meet. Oh, then tell them they can deal with the unhappy customer that calls at 7:00 PM because we weren't there yet because the rain held us up on the job we are working on now. 

Same ole crap. It's the mentality that we are busting our ass and he is driving around doing nothing.

Until these guys takes the risk of starting their own business they will NEVER understand!! Waste of your time trying to explain it!


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Flimmer said:


> I hate BS like this but you know it's part of the job as a Contractor. Tell them they are more then welcome to go out and get there contractors license, pay the insurance, do the permit work, oh and after work they can go to the scheduled estimates with the home owners at 6:00 PM because that's the only time the home owner can meet. Oh, then tell them they can deal with the unhappy customer that calls at 7:00 PM because we weren't there yet because the rain held us up on the job we are working on now.
> 
> Same ole crap. It's the mentality that we are busting our ass and he is driving around doing nothing.
> 
> Until these guys takes the risk of starting their own business they will NEVER understand!! Waste of your time trying to explain it!


Im not directing this at you, just using part of your post. The kid was out of line I guess, and Bamm should do what he thinks is best.

Just thinking outloud, but most employees will never know what it is like to be the decision maker. Most don't want the responsibility, and I personally think, while its a lot more stress and head aches for not enough money sometimwes, being the head honcho is a way better gig than being a hand. For some its not. But I hear a lot of belly aching from contractors about" they will never know how hard it is or how hard I work" Who cares? Do you need the positive reinforcement? I seriously dought it for most.

So next time some says it must be nice, say, yeah it is. Thanks for reminding me, that will piss them right off. JAW


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## Chaqui (Jun 10, 2011)

damn, that kid stole my line, i thought i was the only one that lead conversations with "must be nice"


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