# Pressed concrete finishing



## stonecutter

I have a neat little fireplace job right now where I have to rip down some horrendous stone veneer and rebuild the raised hearth. I am building the hearth top with a hand pressed concrete top. I am doing this because the immediate area is completely lacking a good stone source. There is a small supply yard that has some stone (I got my veneer stone there)but no large flat stock. The pressed technique is a nice alternative for now...but I was wondering if anyone else crosses over into doing this kind of work. Also, I am going to seal the concrete and was curious what products you use or can recommend that are specific to GFRC concrete.

Of course pics to follow soon...


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## DavidC

There are probably too many choices for sealers for decorative concrete. I normally use Xylexin for a tough, durable surface. This one has it;










Comes in gloss or matte finish. Kind of pricey but tough stuff. I'll have to hunt down the website if you're interested. 

For really simple you can try a penetrating sealer and wax. This one was first treated with lithium silicate followed by an acrylic sealer then carnuba wax;










Easy on the wallet, easy to apply, but requires maintenance. Everything you need for this @ www.ConcreteCountertopSupply.com

Good Luck
Dave


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## stonecutter

DavidC said:


> There are probably too many choices for sealers for decorative concrete. I normally use Xylexin for a tough, durable surface. This one has it;
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> Comes in gloss or matte finish. Kind of pricey but tough stuff. I'll have to hunt down the website if you're interested.
> 
> For really simple you can try a penetrating sealer and wax. This one was first treated with lithium silicate followed by an acrylic sealer then carnuba wax;
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> Easy on the wallet, easy to apply, but requires maintenance. Everything you need for this @ www.ConcreteCountertopSupply.com
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> Good Luck
> Dave


Thanks Dave. I have their website in my favorites folder...pretty complete shopping!


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## Fundi

stonecutter said:


> I am building the hearth top with a hand pressed concrete top. I am doing this because the immediate area is
> Of course pics to follow soon...



what do you mean by hand pressed?


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## Michael Olding

My take is it is something like this:









Over something like this:


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## DavidC

Fundi said:


> what do you mean by hand pressed?


Hand pressed is a technique used in some concrete counter top work and other decorative concrete. Normally used to create certain visual effects. The mix used would be on the dry side and hand pressed into your form. It leaves random voids on the surface which will be filled with a wetter mix of a different color.

The pieces I posted are wet cast, but the same sealers would be used. 

Good Luck
Dave


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## stonecutter

This is a counter using the hand pressed technique...mine with be with a charcoal grey with lighter veining.


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## stonecutter

DavidC said:


> Hand pressed is a technique used in some concrete counter top work and other decorative concrete. Normally used to create certain visual effects. The mix used would be on the dry side and hand pressed into your form. It leaves random voids on the surface which will be filled with a wetter mix of a different color.
> 
> The pieces I posted are wet cast, but the same sealers would be used.
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave


good scrip Dave.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

Michael Olding said:


> My take is it is something like this:
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> Over something like this:


I consider that Faux finish or stamped concrete...I dont do any of that, only pressed or wet cast counter tops and sinks.


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## Michael Olding

Nice counters stonecutter


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## lukachuki

stonecutter said:


> This is a counter using the hand pressed technique...mine with be with a charcoal grey with lighter veining.


Let me know when you are going to do this and if I can get away I would like to help just to learn the technique. That look is fabulous.


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## stonecutter

Michael Olding said:


> Nice counters stonecutter


Michael... I didnt do this counter just found it online to show the look. I'll definately post some pictures of this hearth when I'm done.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> Let me know when you are going to do this and if I can get away I would like to help just to learn the technique. That look is fabulous.


Lu..I'm casting the hearth in two pieces and just pressed one side into the mold. I will document the second side so you dont have to drive two hrs to watch me bumble through the process. I am no expert but it is a fun technique...hopefully it will help diversify my business.


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## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> Lu..I'm casting the hearth in two pieces and just pressed one side into the mold. I will document the second side so you dont have to drive two hrs to watch me bumble through the process. I am no expert but it is a fun technique...hopefully it will help diversify my business.


yes please


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> yes please


?:blink:


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## dom-mas

yes please document the technique. I'd be interested in seeing it done.


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> yes please document the technique. I'd be interested in seeing it done.


Got it..but like I said I am no expert.


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## dom-mas

you're better than I am, i've never done it, but I have an island I need to build at home and if it works for that I think I'll have new countertops as well.


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> you're better than I am, i've never done it, but I have an island I need to build at home and if it works for that I think I'll have new countertops as well.


Its a really exciting techinque to me because I always thought of concrete as boring....artisan concrete is far from it. If you are in a place like I am, with limited stone then this type of material expands your options. If not, then it still allows you to be really creative. 

On this job I am using a premade mix by a company I stumbled across right here in SC. I visited their plant, talked with the owner and got what I needed. Cost wise it is a little more than doing my own mix but I can control it more...and since this is a paying job I didnt want to chance my own mix given my experience level. My sample is sound but this hearth is 8'.5" long...

I will share anything you want but you have to wait till I get this done so I can give good info!


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## stonecutter

DavidC said:


> Hand pressed is a technique used in some concrete counter top work and other decorative concrete. Normally used to create certain visual effects. The mix used would be on the dry side and hand pressed into your form. It leaves random voids on the surface which will be filled with a wetter mix of a different color.
> 
> The pieces I posted are wet cast, but the same sealers would be used.
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave


Dave, have you ever used butchers wax on concrete? I use it to treat my reclaimed wood table and really like the softness of the finish. I'm thinking about using it on the hearth after it is installed. 

Maybe warming the surface with a heatgun then applying the wax will help it get drawn into the concrete and it will enhance the color. It's not like a counter where you need a sacrificial sealer on top of a regular sealer. What do you think?


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## dom-mas

That would be great. No rush. I'm always interested in learning new things, especially if they're things I can do inside in the winter.


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## stonecutter

I'm already planning to do my counters in the kitchen and two ramp sinks with counters in my master bath!!


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## Fundi

stonecutter said:


> I will share anything you want but you have to wait till I get this done so I can give good info!


I am also hoping you post about the process. 

erik


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## donerightwyo

I think Buddy Rhoades started all of this. He has some pretty good videos that can be googled.


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## Michael Olding

Here's a link that can get you guys started in this sort of installation. Not quite as easy as it looks but the design benefits will let you compete with lick and stick if you choose to.

I've used in for retaining walls, fireplaces, chimney and house brick resurfacing and updating. Needs to be sealed every 3 years or so and of course you have to pay attention to detail.


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## stonecutter

donerightwyo said:


> I think Buddy Rhoades started all of this. He has some pretty good videos that can be googled.


He sure did..and they do some beautiful work.


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## stonecutter

Michael Olding said:


> Here's a link that can get you guys started in this sort of installation. Not quite as easy as it looks but the design benefits will let you compete with lick and stick if you choose to.
> 
> I've used in for retaining walls, fireplaces, chimney and house brick resurfacing and updating. Needs to be sealed every 3 years or so and of course you have to pay attention to detail.


Cool stuff Michael but personally the only thing I'm looking to do with concrete is countertops, sinks or fireplace hearths and surrounds. I'll leave the fake rock look to somebody else. Some of that stuff is downright amazing. I would imagine learning to do quality work would take some serious dedication.


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## Michael Olding

Truth is stonecutter... anyone can do it but... very few have the artistic ability to pull it off effectively.


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## stonecutter

Michael Olding said:


> very few have the artistic ability to pull it off effectively.


I agree..most faux stone looks terrible to me...but the good stuff is incredible!


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## stonecutter

So, this is the beginning. A little caveat before this starts... I am no expert like I said. Some of the things I am doing are not what seasoned concrete counter guys do. I'll mention that for relevant pictures. However the results from my samples have proven that the methods are sound and I'm comfortable with the results. O.K. here is what I have so far....


Melamine is a good form material because it can produce a nice finish and is less grabby than wood. Its still a good idea to use a release...I have heard about wd40, crisco, pam, wax etc..I used a little armor all. 

To start with, I'm doing this back asswards because the hearth isnt even built yet. It would be easier to template a completed hearth but because of the steps needed for a press technique, I dont want to wait on the hearth after the stonework is done. So, this slab is a little bigger in width and I will cut it onsite...the length is going to be fine.

I laid out my hearth top on the melemine (4'x8') but my actual width for the top is 8'4". So I ripped a 12" piece and butted it on the end of the sheet. Then I taped the seam with scotch tape. When the counter gets flipped this will show in the form of a smooth shiney strip were the tape was...it doesnt matter, because I am wet polishing the whole thing multiple times.

I didnt want to handle a slab that large so I am making two pieces. The hearth top has a slight radius (for asthetics) so thats why I wanted to lay it out at once, then pour the two sides seperately.

Normally, you would no see screw holes on the inside of the form. But I didnt want to spend all kinds of time making angle braces to screw to the outside of my form. The thickness is 1.5" which is why 2x4's made perfect braces. The holes are filled with black silicon as are the seams on the bottom and corners. The holes are slightly recessed which will create a little "button" when the mold comes off. Again, it doesnt matter as I will be wet polishing multiple times. The 2x4s are screwed to the melamine base and that creates a tight mold. Heres the pics. 




































I am going to take the form apart on Sunday and press the other side so I'll document that next. Question time...:thumbup:


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## dom-mas

Looks good so far. that really is a slight curve. Is it even 1" over the 8'


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## DavidC

You could hot glue your sides in place. Set the face to your line and "caulk" the backside with the hot glue. Zip a trim screw into each corner joint for a little extra durability. Saves a bit of time and cleans off easy after use, saving your melamine for another day with no screw holes.

The real work will be after you demold. Seeing some of your other work, I have a feeling that will be no problem.

Good Luck
Dave


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## stonecutter

Dom...good eye, it is 26" @ center and 25" on the ends. The hearth is not curved and I only wanted a subtle radius.

Dave, thanks for the tips...I have a really good glue gun too, just didnt think that it would be strong enough to hold the form. I do plan to reuse the melamine and just caulk the holes but thats a great idea. I have to admit that even though its probably the most important part, I hate layout and form building. I'm looking forward to the slurry coats and polishing.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

DavidC said:


> Zip a trim screw into each corner joint for a little extra durability. Saves a bit of time and cleans off easy after use, saving your melamine for another day with no screw holes.


You know, I have used wall ties as anchors for shelters during winter work. I'm thinking that a wall tie bent around the corner of the form and screwed to each side would really firm up the corner and stop me from worrying about movement. That, with the glue method..hmmmmm


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## DavidC

I just tried the hot glue on my last piece after reading about it on another forum. I was nervous when I started and impressed when it didn't budge while vibrating. Then it scraped clean with a putty knife afterward.

I didn't photo the form, but here's the work in progress;










Like you, I prefer to work the piece and will get my son to build the form when he's available. That hot glue trick is quick though.

Good Luck
Dave


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## lukachuki

I think I'm going to have to get on board with this. For years I have been mightily interested and have purchased a lot of the books etc....but have never followed through. 

Maybe this thread will motivate me.


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## stonecutter

DavidC said:


> I just tried the hot glue on my last piece after reading about it on another forum. I was nervous when I started and impressed when it didn't budge while vibrating. Then it scraped clean with a putty knife afterward.
> 
> I didn't photo the form, but here's the work in progress;
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> Like you, I prefer to work the piece and will get my son to build the form when he's available. That hot glue trick is quick though.
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave


Well, I'm going to try it when I build my counters and ramp sinks for my master bath...thanks!


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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> I think I'm going to have to get on board with this. For years I have been mightily interested and have purchased a lot of the books etc....but have never followed through.
> 
> Maybe this thread will motivate me.


You know, I think the fact that you are only limited to your own imagination is what grabbed my attention first.


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## Fundi

Thanks man. I am all ears. Melamine is formica right?

Like others my mind is racing thinking about how we are gonna use it. that vault house needs counter tops in the kitchen so I am thinking.........


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## JBM

Stonecutter are you near Mt Pleasant?


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## stonecutter

JBM said:


> Stonecutter are you near Mt Pleasant?


Not far, about an 1hr 15 min but all rt 95 & rt26. A SC mile is not like a new england mile. We are in that area often.


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## JBM

Ahh my mum needs something done with her front steps. I will see if she wants someone to do them.,


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## stonecutter

So this afternoon I got to unmold the first half of the hearth. The forms came right off with no problem and the concrete is curing nicely. My Dad came by and he helped me flip it over so I could see the top...I am very pleased with the voids and now I cant wait to do the two coat slurry to finish the veining. Here are some pictures of the first piece starting with breaking the mold down...


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## stonecutter

the rest...


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## Tscarborough

Wow, that is nice.


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## lukachuki

sheesh that is going to look nice


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## stonecutter

On to the second side. The first layer, which ends up being the top, is a drier mix. It is often described as claylike, and is applied first. I work the corners to make sure I get an edge then start pressing handfuls of concrete onto the mold. The more random the size, the more natural looking the voids will be. I have seen pressed counters that look like somebody bounced a tennis ball off the form..the pieces were too uniform.

After covering the surface with the press, a second layer is applied and screeded to fill the mold. This mix is loose, like a regular concrete mix.

Like I said, this is a premixed concrete with pigment added already. It also has nylon fiber...no lath or wire needed. At full cure I will have 6500 PSI. I am very impressed with this product so far. Here we go....


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## stonecutter

I will let this slab cure for 4 days then unmold it. After that, the next step is two color slurry fill...next weekend.


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## dom-mas

so you actually use your hand to "press" it into the corners etc... (yeah I know what the name is) No vibrating at all? I'm terrible with concrete I always have honeycombing so this is one product that looks great for me. Do you think I could make my own mix? What size is the large aggregate? 3/8ths I'm guessing. 

You still want crisp corners and edges, how do you make sure that those areas are full? Would you rub the edges after?


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## stonecutter

Yes, you can make your own mix...I did a couple test slabs 2'x2' last july and they didnt fail.


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> so you actually use your hand to "press" it into the corners etc... (yeah I know what the name is) No vibrating at all? I'm terrible with concrete I always have honeycombing so this is one product that looks great for me. Do you think I could make my own mix? What size is the large aggregate? 3/8ths I'm guessing.
> 
> You still want crisp corners and edges, how do you make sure that those areas are full? Would you rub the edges after?


No vibration for hand pressing. It wouldnt do much anyway because the mix is pretty dry and the whole point of this technique is to create voids that simulate veining. You would use vibration when wet casting though...because you DONT want voids.

When doing a handpress mix, typically you dont add aggregate...it is a sand mix. If you do a poured concrete mix it is better to have a variety of size in the aggregate. The same with the sand used for the mix..get one with fines to around 1/8"...concrete sand is better than mason sand for this (I know, duh) A BASIC mix would be 2:1 (sandortland) arylic additive and nylon fiber to help with shrink cracking. For the acrylic, you need to be careful that you get one with a lot of solids or it wont do much good(forton vf 774 is popular). Some of them(acryl 60, 27% solids) create too much air entrainment so you need to add defoamer. With my homemade mix, I used galvanized 1/2" fencing for reinforcement, added after the press layer. Alternatively, you can use a bagged mix like quickcrete 5000, but you should add 1 part portland per bag plus the additives and reinforcment.

Dom, I have only scratched the surface of all the in's and outs of a homemade mix. You should really play around and see how your own mix turns out before commiting to a project. It would be a diaster if your counter started to cup or crack. Make some samples, write down your ratios. One thing you must do when making concrete like this is to carefully measure your additives,cement and sand to create a consistant mix.

All these factors are why I chose to go with a proven, engineered product. Its my first paying job with artisan concrete and I need the control on the quality. It costs more per sqft this way but I have the confidence with this concrete that I dont with mine...I need more time to test my mix before I use it at a customers house..I'm getting there though.


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## dom-mas

A sand mix, that makes sense since the countertop is only 1.5" Since I'd be doing it for myself I'm not super worried about a potential bad mix but of course I'd rather do it right the first time. I have a friend who did concrete counters for a while but has recently gotten out of the trades to go to school to be an architect. School is on the east coast so I don't see him very often anymore, but he may be able to suggest a mix.

Thanks for answering all my questions. there'll be more to come as this progresses I'm sure. I like this technique (and results) more than other concrete counters I've seen. (PS I know my buddy uses MDF for his forms. Cheap and smooth. Maybe melamine is comparable)


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> (PS I know my buddy uses MDF for his forms. Cheap and smooth. Maybe melamine is comparable)


One other thing you could do is a bag mix like I mentioned and dont add any color. After it come out of the mold you can do an acid stain (two or three different colors look cool).

The melamine is $25 a sheet. I like it because it wont absorb any water...MDF, will blow up if it gets wet if I'm not mistaken but I'll look into it.


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## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> One other thing you could do is a bag mix like I mentioned and dont add any color. After it come out of the mold you can do an acid stain (two or three different colors look cool).
> 
> The melamine is $25 a sheet. I like it because it wont absorb any water...MDF, will blow up if it gets wet if I'm not mistaken but I'll look into it.


Everything in Canada is way more expensive but even if it's $50 a sheet that's pretty good. he may use HDF or whatever is used exterior, I think one of the benefits is that it comes in 5x10 sheets. I'll try to get in touch with him and see what he uses. melamine sounds pretty good for the price tho


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Everything in Canada is way more expensive but even if it's $50 a sheet that's pretty good. he may use HDF or whatever is used exterior, I think one of the benefits is that it comes in 5x10 sheets. I'll try to get in touch with him and see what he uses. melamine sounds pretty good for the price tho


Yeah it varies by location. I bought melamine in NY and it cost $38 per sheet.


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## stonecutter

I was at bLOWES today and saw rigid foam insulation and it only cost $12.50 per 4x8 sheet. I am going to experiment with it because doing a free form mold would be easy being that you could bend the strips very easily.


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## Miss Brown

We use a completely matt, very very expensive, and very worth-while tile sealer for concrete countertops...Tile guard Natural Stone Premium Sealer....
No sheen, but you can spill coffee all over a white counter top and it's a-ok. might not be what you're looking for. I wish I knew how to upload pictures... I'll work on it. Looks great, btw.


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## Miss Brown

Terrible picture, but you can see the mottling. Dry mix, copper pigment...filled the voids with slightly different color. Gave up trying to do a completely cohesive (e.g. vibrated) surface. Too many suprises, too many re-pours. If it's imperfect to start, it's perfecter!


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## superseal

stonecutter said:


> I was at bLOWES today and saw rigid foam insulation and it only cost $12.50 per 4x8 sheet. I am going to experiment with it because doing a free form mold would be easy being that you could bend the strips very easily.


It works well :thumbsup: 

Had the 8 y.o. nephew over this summer while I was working on the foundation pointing and drainage work at home...

Lots of clay around here, so I formed out some brick molds and had him mixing away. He loved it and the brick came out quite smooth indeed.


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## stonecutter

Miss Brown said:


> Dry mix, copper pigment...filled the voids with slightly different color.


I have always liked the verde/copper color combination.:thumbsup:


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## oktex56

*Sealer*



stonecutter said:


> Yeah, I have to reapply it to the stone I seal too. I'm just really curious because its so inexpensive and easy to apply. The HO are a great older couple and would probably touch it up when needed..they are very active. That's way I might go with something user friendly..or the opposite and do something bomb proof. I'll leave it to them...you know, budget concerns.


Cool Bud,

I would do the same in your situation. All about options.

Story: My Father purchased 350 acres of land in MS that was a tung tree plantation. It was just north of Nawlins and they grew the trees for tung oil (similar to Linseed oil) but the exclusive use here was for rocket fuel for the space program! It's slow burning properties allowed for long burn life...kinda cool huh?

He bushogged all of them and burned them so he could plant grass for cattle. Then grew crops later. I asked him why all the trouble instead of bulldozing. 
He said Son, would have lost the topsoil...(he passed away 9 years ago) and was an agronomist. 
He had em coming around for miles wondering how he grew such bumper crops later on.

Steve:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

DavidC said:


> For all I know you were boiling like minded people to make a sealer.


I would never boil down like-minded people...maybe cultured stone installers.:laughing: I kid, I kid.

I should have new pictures this weekend. Saturday I will profile the edges and slurry. Sunday will be polishing and second slurry.


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## stonecutter

oktex56 said:


> The only caution is that it will re-emulsify with solvent such as nail polish remover..


I meant to ask you what you mean by this.


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## Miss Brown

It means that acetone mucks it up....
Linseed would be fine for vertical surfaces, and if the H.O. neglects to re-do it, it's not like they are leaving spaghetti sauce on it. IMO it would be totally incorrect for a counter-top...it casts a yellowish hue also. Not a problem on black. I encourage a test...cheap cheap...


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## stonecutter

Miss Brown said:


> It means that acetone mucks it up....
> Linseed would be fine for vertical surfaces, and if the H.O. neglects to re-do it, it's not like they are leaving spaghetti sauce on it. IMO it would be totally incorrect for a counter-top...it casts a yellowish hue also. Not a problem on black. I encourage a test...cheap cheap...


I'm not using it for a counter top though and my color for the hearth is a dark charcoal. I hear you on the yellowish hue..boiled linseed oil has a honey color to it.

My test sample is close to the hearth so I'll test it out tomorrow.:thumbsup:


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## oktex56

*Answer*

Thanks for answering the re-emulsify question.

I totally forgot about yellowish color too, good call!

On wood it isn't much of an issue.

Steve:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

I had to work today so I didnt have time to slurry but the profile is done. Really happy with the voids on the second slab so I think the veined effect is going to be cool. Here is tonights pics..tomorrow is slurry time.


Put them together for fit...









Starting 1/2" roundover








Profile bit leaves a little edge above roundover.


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## stonecutter

Edge is feathered out with diamond hand pads.


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## lukachuki

Whoa how you doing the 1/2" roundover? It's going to look great.


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## stonecutter




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## stonecutter

I'm pleased so far...this concrete is really hard, almost like real stone. 
The other thing that I am happy about is the gentle curve on the front edge...it reminds me of a Katana.

The last pic was taken after using an air hose to remove the water..this matte finish is similar to what the final look will be...maybe a little more shine.


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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> Whoa how you doing the 1/2" roundover? It's going to look great.



Alpha B type profiler 1/2" round over









Variable speed polisher.










This is what I used on the coping for that pool with the black pebble drain.:thumbsup:


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## DavidC

That's going to be a nice piece. I think the curve is what will make the piece when your done.

Curious how long you've had that polisher. I've got the same one and it seems like I have it apart longer than I actually use it. I still have it and figure I'll use it for higher grit wet polishing. But I've switched to a Makita dry polisher for most days. 

It's more of a damp polishing, I wet the piece before working it, then rinse and re-wet as I work.

I think you've just convinced me that I need to get a set of edge profilers.So far all of my edging is done in the form.

Keep the pics coming, looking good.

Good Luck
Dave


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## JBM

That will be a great counter!


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## oktex56

*Great work!*

Dude, your work is coming out super nice!

I am stunned that you polished/routed/cut your rounded edge!

I have only seen it done within the form!

Friend in Baton Rouge where I lived for 22 years does precast columns and ships and installs the all over the US.

He does tons of same work or repeat stuff.

Told me that the best method was to make up forms with treated plywood and then to fiberglass inside of forms. He would use a release agent sprayed on surface and it would pop out each time with minimal cleanup.

I think this would be a good idea for generic countertop form which could be used over and over again.

Again, great work!

Steve:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

DavidC said:


> t
> 
> I think you've just convinced me that I need to get a set of edge profilers.So far all of my edging is done in the form.
> 
> Keep the pics coming, looking good.
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave


Thanks...

I have had the Alpha for a little over 2 years now...so far, problem free and it has done a lot of polishing and profiling on stone and concrete. I know about all the other brands, but this was the only one I had used before. I would try another brand though..I love all my Makita grinders (all I buy). Metabo makes nice tools too.

Last fall I had to fabricate large concrete caps for three chimneys. I put this profile on all of them as a test.


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## stonecutter

oktex56 said:


> I am stunned that you polished/routed/cut your rounded edge!
> 
> I have only seen it done within the form!


 


DavidC said:


> I think you've just convinced me that I need to get a set of edge profilers.So far all of my edging is done in the form.


I think this really shows my lack of experience. All my fabrication up until now is with natural stone... this is why I choose do the profile with tools and diamond hand pads.

I will say though....the chances are good that I would need to do some touch up and or polishing to the edge no matter what, so this way made sense to me. I'm sure the guys that do this all the time dont need to...just pop the form and thats it. Doing it this way works in my favor to producing the best piece within my ability..while still learning!

Like I mentioned, this concrete has a PSI of 6400 so it shapes out nicely with the profiler bits..and its faster for me than trying to build a form with a profile.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

oktex56 said:


> Friend in Baton Rouge where I lived for 22 years does precast columns and ships and installs the all over the US.
> 
> He does tons of same work or repeat stuff.
> 
> Told me that the best method was to make up forms with treated plywood and then to fiberglass inside of forms. He would use a release agent sprayed on surface and it would pop out each time with minimal cleanup.
> 
> I think this would be a good idea for generic countertop form which could be used over and over again.
> 
> Again, great work!
> 
> Steve:thumbsup:


I'll keep this in mind..chances are any of my future concrete work with be custom to the needs of the job, since no stonework project is the same. I plan on doing concrete counters for my outdoor entertaining area and maybe the shelf of my new pizza oven.:thumbsup:


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## oktex56

*Forms*

I saw him add pieces that were within the form that would not allow concrete such as a cutout for a sink which could be moved all over depending on situation, etc.

Your lack of experience is more that made up for by your craftsmanship!


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## dom-mas

what do the bits for your routing tool cost? A cousin of mine was into granite for a while, did monuments and later installed counters. He said the cost of the routing tool and all the bits he'd need (I think he said about $500 a piece and he'd need about a dozen just to get started but that was about 10years ago) made it more profitable for him to just do install rather than manufacture as well.


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## stonecutter

Polished out the first slurry today. I'm happy with the contrast and there was minimal holes even though I used the building mix. I used a screen to get a lot of the sand out of the mix for tonights slurry. I didnt want to use grey portland and color like I had intended..my old sample has some of that and it looks a little muddy. I wanted to keep the color similar, though I did lighten this final mix for a two color effect.


Starting the polish..









action shot..









result...


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## stonecutter

Some close ups of the veining..


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## stonecutter

Second slurry..hopefully this will be it. Mixed very loose to fill as many pin holes as possible. I will polish this tomorrow afternoon. The more I look at this the more I want to put a shine to it..maybe polish up to 1500 grit then seal...I'll think about it some more.. Any opinions? Matte or shine?


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## stonecutter

Here is a sample slab I made last July with my own mix design...two color (charcoal) press with white fill.

The darker half has boiled linseed oil on it. The finish reminds me of soapstone with butchers oil on it.


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## superseal

Hey Stoner...lookin' real nice indeed. I like it a lot.

Why ain't you using a pool trowel to burn that slurry - maybe quicker or easier depending. 

Regardless, I'd love to see it shine although this is a hearth right? Probably better off matte? 

I don't know...what you ask me for :whistling


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## stonecutter

superseal said:


> Hey Stoner...lookin' real nice indeed. I like it a lot.
> 
> Why ain't you using a pool trowel to burn that slurry - maybe quicker or easier depending.
> 
> Regardless, I'd love to see it shine although this is a hearth right? Probably better off matte?
> 
> I don't know...what you ask me for :whistling


I like the smaller blade of the taping knife works great for the edges.


Yeah this is a hearth..I am starting to think a contrast in finish will be nice. Not a high gloss like when there is water on it, just something above matte. The stone being used is more buff,earthtones with some greys here and there...went for color contrast too.

I'll count that as one vote for shine.:thumbsup:


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## dom-mas

My vote would probably be for a satin or semigloss. Not high shine but something that draws the eye a bit.

It looks to me like there's still a fair bit of texture to that piece. That may just be rippling water that I can see from the polishing (it is a wet polish correct?).


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> My vote would probably be for a satin or semigloss. Not high shine but something that draws the eye a bit.
> 
> It looks to me like there's still a fair bit of texture to that piece. That may just be rippling water that I can see from the polishing (it is a wet polish correct?).


Yeah, I dont want a high shine either...semi is about the max. I'll probably check it after 800 and keep going up until I get what I want.


That was taken just before I reslurried the hearth tonight... so yes, there is still texture. I wont be bothered if there is still some of that after I polish the slab tomorrow..it looks cool and will fit the setting. If it was a counter then that finish wouldnt be good enough.

Yes wet polish...the tool has a water line.


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## oktex56

Nice work Bud! 

I vote satin finish. um don't have a vote but if I did :thumbsup:


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## JD3lta

matte vs. shine.. IMO shine, I like outlasting fresh looks, it may contrast to the existing but that can help us see what needs an update as well. An example such as stainless steel can be buffed and has many advantages. I'm not a decor expert, I do like things to not be more trouble than they're worth. BTW I'm intrigued by the custom counter-tops, and really like the aesthetic look of the polishing there.


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## stonecutter

JD3lta said:


> matte vs. shine.. IMO shine, I like outlasting fresh looks, it may contrast to the existing but that can help us see what needs an update as well. An example such as stainless steel can be buffed and has many advantages. I'm not a decor expert, I do like things to not be more trouble than they're worth. BTW I'm intrigued by the custom counter-tops, and really like the aesthetic look of the polishing there.


J...I'm not sure but are you thinking this is going to be a kitchen counter?


It's going to be a fireplace hearth. I have torn down the old stone and will install this when the veneer is done.

I am going to put a shine on it for sure now. Just not a glassy one like it looks with water...


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## DavidC

I like the sheen that the client pays for be it matte, satin of gloss. I don't get paid to like it once it's in. But I usually do at no extra charge.

It's usually gloss however. Flat would be a decent change.

Good Luck
Dave


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## oktex56

I agree, it's whatever the client pays for and likes.

Tip:

Have them look at it wet then as it dries they can see almost what it will look like with various sheens.

Tradeoff: High sheen shows depth of color, anything less in sheen shows less.

Howsomever, ever seen a high gloss fireplace? I have, and it does NOT look good to me.


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## stonecutter

I hear you guys...

They left the final decision to me. I think a little contrast to the stone will look nice...I guess ill hear about it if nobody else thinks so:laughing:.


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## lukachuki

I'd vote for lesser than morer in the sheen discussion....it is a hearth after all...just my .015 cents


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## stonecutter

These are going to be the last picture of the hearth until you see it the final install...that will probably be in another thread about the fireplace.


Thanks for all the feedback and it was really great to hear about different ideas,suggestions and see other work (Dave, Miss Brown).

So, I polished starting with 100 grit to get the slurry off and progressed all the way to 3500...then buff. 

You can see some shine in the picture, it has been wet down to show the color(no standing water on the piece.) This is what I want...I guess you would can call it satin, just a bit more than matte.

Anyway, tonights pics..mostly shots of the veining and edges. Thanks again e1.


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## stonecutter




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## stonecutter




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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> I'd vote for lesser than morer in the sheen discussion....it is a hearth after all...just my .015 cents


Thanks..now I owe you .13 cents:thumbsup::laughing:


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## dom-mas

looks awesome. I really like the mottling. Looks way more like stone than any imitation I've ever seen. I'm excited to try this in the future.

Thanks again stonecutter.


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## stonecutter

You might note some of the veining looks different from each other.

If you want more crackling like in the final picture, use a drier mix and "crumble" it onto the form then press around it.

Of course, the more variation the better the slab will look IMO.:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

dom-mas said:


> looks awesome. I really like the mottling. Looks way more like stone than any imitation I've ever seen. I'm excited to try this in the future.
> 
> Thanks again stonecutter.


ditto


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## tgeb

Looks great! 

Thanks for walking through the process.

I'm sure the client will be thrilled with it.


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## slowsol

Very cool thread. Thanks for taking the time!


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## Miss Brown

Yep, what he said. I can't find it this second, but I'll see if I can dig up my recipe and send it off to you. Good work Sir. I betcha want to keep it.


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## Fundi

I am looking for the pizza thread. Is this it? Must be from the number of posts.

Seriously thanks for the detail Stonecutter. We owe ya big time.


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## stonecutter

Fundi said:


> I am looking for the pizza thread. Is this it? Must be from the number of posts.


 
It's in Off topic, tons of Fundi :thumbsup:...I'm happy about the feedback and interest in this technique...IMO it will really enhance a business and create new opportunities for work by learning to do this.

Maybe I can get Lukachuki up here to help me with my next project! He probably wont until I get my pizza oven finished.:laughing:


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## lukachuki

stonecutter said:


> Off topic, tons of Fundi...I'm happy about the feedback and interest in this technique...IMO it will really enhance a business and create new opportunities for work by learning to do this.
> 
> Maybe I can get Lukachuki up here to help me with my next project! He probably wont until I get my pizza oven finished.:laughing:


Sounds good to me.


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## dom-mas

I'm still waiting for lukakuchi to ask whether it would be appropriate for a Pizza stone


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> I'm still waiting for lukakuchi to ask whether it would be appropriate for a Pizza stone


That will be his homework assignment after he helps me with the counters for the outdoor entertainment area.:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

My ears were tingling so I decided to log on and find out why. 

I'm ready and waiting for the word! My overnight bag is packed, my glass eye is washed, my peg leg is termite treated, and my false teeth are secured with a dab of pine tar and kindred oil, so lets git er done.


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## lukachuki

dom-mas said:


> I'm still waiting for lukakuchi to ask whether it would be appropriate for a Pizza stone


Oh come on! We all know that pizza stones are not made just re-purposed.


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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> My ears were tingling so I decided to log on and find out why.
> 
> I'm ready and waiting for the word! My overnight bag is packed, my glass eye is washed, my peg leg is termite treated, and my false teeth are secured with a dab of pine tar and kindred oil, so lets git er done.


Thanks for confirming the stereotyping I've heard about the south.:laughing: I kid, I kid!!

Maybe we'll have time to make some more kindred oil when you come up...ill get the pot boiling.


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## dom-mas

Quick question. What do you think the minimum PSI would need to be for this application? I don't have an edging tool so i would probably just rub them. Would a typical 1 part type10 portland: 2 parts sand be strong enough? (with a heavy dose of liquitex of course) I think it would come out to about 2500psi if I'm not mistaken.


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Would a typical 1 part type10 portland: 2 parts sand be strong enough? (with a heavy dose of liquitex of course) I think it would come out to about 2500psi if I'm not mistaken.


Dom..I have never heard of type 10 portland before....


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## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> Dom..I have never heard of type 10 portland before....


Oh, Type 10, GU, OPC, all the same, straight up Portland. I think Type 10 because it was the 10th attempt that worked.


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Quick question. What do you think the minimum PSI would need to be for this application? I don't have an edging tool so i would probably just rub them. Would a typical 1 part type10 portland: 2 parts sand be strong enough? (with a heavy dose of liquitex of course) I think it would come out to about 2500psi if I'm not mistaken.


I just looked up liquitex and didnt see anything other than acrylic paint. Dont add any paint to your concrete..it has other additives that could weaken the mix.

This link was posted a couple times but these guys have everything you could possibly need for your mix design...its probably more economical than driving around looking for some of this stuff too.

http://www.concretecountertopsupply.com/

As far how much psi you should shoot for, I dont have much information beyond the fact that all the artisan mixes I have seen have high...like 4000 and up.

My sample that I made was with the basic 2:1 and is very hard, didnt cup or have any shrink cracks. I think it has something to do with minimal water added and the use of a high solid arylic as a water replacement(20% which you can tweek) plus, the mesh. I used galvanized fencing that had 1/2" square grid pattern. You could add a little more portland and change your additive ratio accordingly.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

just looked up type 10....I used type I/II in my mix...grey.

Dom...just saw that type 10 and 1 are the same thing with a different name.:thumbsup:


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## dom-mas

Liquitex is probably not the proper name, I don't use acrylic additive very often, haven't touched it in years in fact. When I'm at the supplier I ask for milk and they know what I mean. 

So 4000psi, that's pretty strong. I'll take a look at the link you gave me. I still haven't got a hold of my friend that was doing countertops. I know he did his own mixes but he also did a fairly liquid mix. You are right that the less water you add, so long as you add enough, the stronger the mix and the less shrinking and cracking.

Thanks again


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> I think Type 10 because it was the 10th attempt that worked.


Interesting...like WD-40. Water Dispalcement 40(th attempt)


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## ChimneyHill

stonecutter said:


> Thanks Dave. Maybe I'll run into you at Pepes, Sallys or modern in a month or so.:thumbsup:


Well you won't see me waiting hours for a pie :laughing: but if you want to grab a coffee or something give me a shout. :thumbsup:

Visiting or do you have some work up here?


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## stonecutter

ChimneyHill said:


> Well you won't see me waiting hours for a pie :laughing: but if you want to grab a coffee or something give me a shout. :thumbsup:
> 
> Visiting or do you have some work up here?


We go at off times to avoid that wait...I don't think even we would wait that long.


We will be returning to CT for some projects that we lined up last year.


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## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> The stonework?
> 
> Yeah...I didnt touch the firebox but I had to tear everything else off down to the studs. I plan to to a post/blog about it soon. It was a real mess!


Yeah the stone. Looks awesome. Gives Bytor some serious competition.


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## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Yeah the stone. Looks awesome. Gives Bytor some serious competition.


Thanks. I don't think of it as a competition..I'm sure Bytor isn't worried.:laughing:

I do get what you are saying and appreciate the compliment though.


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## bytor

Someone mention my name?

Thanks for the play by play on this thread... we have a kitchen reno of our own coming up... I think I will follow your lead and do a little playing around with casting some counter top 'samples' this summer... after I tackle the oven that is...


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## superseal

Nice work Stone...I know a lot of time and effort went into that piece so it must feel good getting it installed.

Thanks for sharing this finished pics - it was worth the wait :thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

bytor said:


> Someone mention my name?
> 
> Thanks for the play by play on this thread... we have a kitchen reno of our own coming up... I think I will follow your lead and do a little playing around with casting some counter top 'samples' this summer... after I tackle the oven that is...


That is one thing I highly recommend. Dial in your mix design before committing to a piece...or use a commercially available pre-mix. When I have a chance I am going to post some recommended reading.


I plan on messing around with some more pressed pieces soon...I'll just post it here.:thumbsup:


I know I'm not alone when I say that the stonework on your oven is highly anticipated....which gives you a chance to mess with everyone and do a stucco finish!:laughing:


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## stonecutter

superseal said:


> Nice work Stone...I know a lot of time and effort went into that piece so it must feel good getting it installed


True, it does. I'll be really feeling good when the sealer goes on it!:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

It's been awhile but here are the final shots of the hearth. I put two coats of penetrating/ enhancing sealer on it, then wax & buff. I'm really happy with the finish...a little shine is good I think.


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## DavidC

That's too pretty to use. Very nice work Stonecutter.

Good Luck
Dave


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## dom-mas

Nice stuff.


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## Fundi

nice


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## stonecutter

Mocking up some bench tops. I used the same products and methods as the hearth...only the colors will be different.

The brown top is Walnut and will get Redwood colored veining. The other is Terracotta and the veining is Autumn Brown. In tonight's pics I have unmolded the tops and applied the first slurry coat. 

I profiled only one top because I am experimenting again. The Terracotta top will get a concave surface ground into it so I wont profile that one until the grind is done. 

The small slab pieces you see are another experiment. I am using them like cladding around a block or poured concrete support.

Terracotta first....

















The slurry coat.


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## stonecutter

The Walnut top. This combo is a little more subtle than the Terracotta at first but I think the accent colors will look cool...I hope. The colors match the color palette of the project.




























First polish pictures tomorrow night.


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## CanCritter

very nice work....looks like l have some readin to do...11 pages argh


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## stonecutter

Its mostly pictures.:thumbsup:


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## DavidC

stonecutter said:


> Its mostly pictures.:thumbsup:


It's ****.

This looks interesting already. Looking forward to the progress.

Good Luck
Dave


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## stonecutter

Hopefully this isn't **** David. Here's today's polish...Tomorrow I'll second slurry then final polish on Monday. 

The Walnut/Redwood sample is pretty subtle and it's hard to see the contrast of the veining in the pics...but it's there.

Walnut/Redwood first.....


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## stonecutter

Terracotta/Autumn Brown.....


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## lukachuki

what these for?


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