# Masonry Gone Forever



## JD3lta (Nov 22, 2009)

Masonry can't be a dying trade unless you allow it to be, in fact that perpetuates it into it's own class. What I learned off the start was that Masonry and Prostitution were the two oldest trades. I worked for a slaughter house a short bit and that is a dying trade. 

A high-speed Iphone at max is what 500 dollars and all accessories= whatever= a racket. My point being is that it's all about creating a product. Sure, there's a factory that makes alien-ware. All that's asked is can you produce an offered product. If that makes any dang sense, then sense makes cents.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Sure its about creating a product.

I can offer everyone in the world their own mini colleseum in backyard for decent price...with marble and granite=extra=racket.

But if i dont have the guys to build it and ones who can build it are either 50+ or 20s you know its dying trade...its easier to drill wood I am saying...


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## 2low4nh (Dec 12, 2010)

I have to ask myself is it a dying trade because no body values the work or is it a dying trade because nobody wants the work. chimneys get replaced by zero clearance units with wooden stacks and direct vent boilers. some states are doing away with traditional masonry fireplaces. material costs are sky rocketing causing job price to increase in an already downed economy. they have taken the art out of stone work by giving home owners and carpenters stick on stones. I love my trade and I will stick it out for as long as I can but it might kill us off before our time.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

2low4nh said:


> I have to ask myself is it a dying trade because no body values the work or is it a dying trade because nobody wants the work. chimneys get replaced by zero clearance units with wooden stacks and direct vent boilers. some states are doing away with traditional masonry fireplaces. material costs are sky rocketing causing job price to increase in an already downed economy. they have taken the art out of stone work by giving home owners and carpenters stick on stones. I love my trade and I will stick it out for as long as I can but it might kill us off before our time.


I think this is spot on. Alternatives to masonry have been around a long time. Even if somebody really values masonry construction, fewer and fewer can afford it...shrinking the market..lessening the demand which will lead to less skilled craftsmen...and things like cultured stone, wooden stacks with a metal liner are two examples of the way the modern world thinks...faster, cheaper, no interst in tradition. Cost is king for the vast majority. 

There will always be some work around, repairs to historic buildings etc just not as much on the residential side unless it is for wealthy HO's. I think of masonry (especially stonemasonry) like the blacksmithing trade..sure there are smithy's and farrier's but a great majority of the work is artisan or (for a farrier) in a small specific market.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Sure the chimney part of the trade is trickling out, but thats not to say masonry is dead or dieing. People are spending insane amounts on outdoor patios and even full blown chimneys. The trade is evolving. Masonry is alive in well in the south or midwest, where people will work almost for free.

I was watching the news the other day when the tornados hit that town. I dont get why more concrete poured homes isnt required by code. 

No way I would live in tornado alley without concrete walls and a concrete roof. Oh well.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I can only speak from my experiences.

In my opinion, few masons (anyone who works with concrete, cement, motor, bricks and blocks) in this area do very little to teach the younger generation their craft. They hope their children will take over the business. Ironically, the fathers work hard to provide their families and their sons with a comfortable lifestyle in hopes that the sons will see the results of hard work. However, this seems to backfire, when the time comes, there is no way those kids going to do hard, manual labor. They want the big bucks NOW, the big house NOW, everything NOW. That's too heavy, it's too hot, too cold, too, too, etc.

Masonry is not something you can learn by reading or watching someone else. You need to actually be taught and then spend a lifetime on the tools to be successful. It's an art form, not a science and there's way too many variables.

I've had the pleasure to meet several true masons, all of which where over 55 yrs old. All of which had hands like sandpaper and were surprisingly strong. I could talk to those guys for hours. I remember one never used ready-mix. He said it's too inconsistent. He always mixed his own. Swore by it. I remember him telling me he wanted his work to outlast him. He would mention things he did 30+ years ago that are still standing the test of time.

As many of you know and often mention, it's never about the money. Your doing what you love and are fortunate enough to make a living doing that.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

Every guy around here that slings mud is at least 40 years old. Part of the reason I jumped in feet first.

I really would like to work with some true stone shapers for a little while. The stone we have here all sucks though, we can never get granite or quailty bluestone to work with.

It's true the trade may be dying a bit, but just like everything else you have to adapt.

The truth is quality masonry is expensive, and people want their house done right now. It isn't like back in the day where everyone was a tradesmen and called in favors to help get his brick house layed up.

I couldn't even imagine today someone requesting a bid for a 3 wythe brick house (not even sure if it would be to code) the price would be astounding compared to stickbuilt with a brick veneer.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

Or, and this one is sort of funny to think about. Imagine someone calling and requesting a stone foundation for a new house. Back in the day it's all they had, but to do something like that now with any decent craftsmanship would cost a fortune.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

If I find a winning lottery ticket, I want you guys to build me a castle. I say "find" 'cause I don't play. :clap:


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

sitdwnandhngon said:


> I couldn't even imagine today someone requesting a bid for a 3 wythe brick house (not even sure if it would be to code) the price would be astounding compared to stickbuilt with a brick veneer.


A triple wythe wall should be up to code so long as they are structural bricks (usually concrete that I've seen) 

In your next post you mention a stone foundation. I don't know about other areas but in Ontario natural stone is NOT considered to be structural. The theory is that even in the same quarry, you could test the comp strength of stone in one spot and several feet away it could be different. Basically the test of time doesn't count. And nature is way less perfect than man made items. You can rebuild with stone and use it as structural, but NO new construction can use stone as a load bearing member. Fairly idiotic

The price of each would be far greater than stick construction or a concrete foundation


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

jb4211 said:


> If I find a winning lottery ticket, I want you guys to build me a castle. I say "find" 'cause I don't play. :clap:


You don't believe in voluntary taxation? Strange!


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

No way they would let field stone foundations fly today. Yet probably 1/4 of the houses in the area are sitting on them.

And some of them are very well done, others, not so much.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*dying trade*

For all you guys that think masonry is a dying trade(which it is not)take heart it has been around approx. 11000 years. If it truly is dying as some of your drum beating proclaim,do not worry cause it is dying avery ,very,slow death and not you or any of your desendants will live to attend the funeral.Some of you guys remind me of chicken little,believe me the sky truly is not falling.I have danced on this earth long enough to see "bumps in the road" before ,your town,state,country,planet is not going to hell in a hand basket,as some in the media would like you to believe. So,stop talking about the problems you THINK you see and start seeing the solutions.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Ok, I Googled it and the picture below is what I found. And I must agree, my City (_you forgot City_) would not fit in that basket, no way, no how. :no::no:

Some of the more rural, smaller towns...maybe, but not Philly.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

......


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

fjn said:


> For all you guys that think masonry is a dying trade(which it is not)take heart it has been around approx. 11000 years. If it truly is dying as some of your drum beating proclaim,do not worry cause it is dying avery ,very,slow death and not you or any of your desendants will live to attend the funeral.Some of you guys remind me of chicken little,believe me the sky truly is not falling.I have danced on this earth long enough to see "bumps in the road" before ,your town,state,country,planet is not going to hell in a hand basket,as some in the media would like you to believe. So,stop talking about the problems you THINK you see and start seeing the solutions.


Relax....I don't think anyone here thinks that masonry will be gone tomorrow...only that the need is declining compared to the past because of modern demand and economics.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Unfortunately I think decline has also to do with that masonry materials are way more expensive over here than carpentry materials therefore we are not able to offer competitive rates.

Not to mention that polyurathane screw to wall stuff


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

JD3lta said:


> What I learned off the start was that Masonry and Prostitution were the two oldest trades.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I don't want to be a smart ass but it's kind of my nature. I hate to admit it but csarpentry is much older than masonry. Ever seen dentals in Greek architecture, they represent the wooden joists/beams that protruded from the wall structure. It is much easier to build with wood and so it's been forever. Masonry is just the oldest trade that we still have representatives of. No small thing


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

dom-mas said:


> JD3lta said:
> 
> 
> > What I learned off the start was that Masonry and Prostitution were the two oldest trades.
> ...


I can argue that moment ancient caveman put two rocks together to create a sit for himself masonry was born :laughing:

Again I am not trying to be a smartass either.

Pyramids




This been carved by Ancient man approximately 10000 years ago and can be considered masonry


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

TheItalian204 said:


> dom-mas said:
> 
> 
> > I can argue that moment ancient caveman put two rocks together to create a sit for himself masonry was born :laughing:
> ...


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