# Help! It stinks in here!



## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

I did check the toilet tank,not for the reason you guys might think,but I think I would have noticed any Meadow Muffins in there. Oddly enough this fixture is the furthest from the septic tank,but the water infiltration Idea had come to mind,only I had been thinking septic tank, not leaching field, I guess that's 1 more possibility in my own personal nightmare. A Temporary swap out of the toilet is a good Idea, My plumber actually volunteered to do that,but I was trying to keep it as a last resort to save him the trouble. He already has several free trips in on this and I have a feeling the issue isn't his fault.If the other ideas you guys have given me dont work I think that will be the way to go. Thanks for all the input guys :notworthy phil


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## mmike032 (May 30, 2007)

this may not be relevant but my toliet did the same thing. now this was an old pooper and it smelled like sewage when flushed. turned out the jets in the pooper were clogged. plumber said this from using the blue mints you drop in the back. had new pooper installed and no more poo poo smell.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*I'm gonna take a stab, though not likely.*
*Do they use mouse poison?*
*I have had numerous calls over the years for sewage smells, all to discover a box of mouse bait under a sink and inform the customer they may have to wait out a few weeks while mother nature finishes the job inside a wall somewhere.*
*The fact that the smell gets worse in rainfall makes me wonder if it isn't something like that in the crawl below being "re-activated" by moisture.*

*Alternatively, did the previous homeowner have ties to the mob?*


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> ......*Alternatively, did the previous homeowner have ties to the mob?*


:clap::laughing::clap:


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

With respect to possible wicking of the trap. I just read an article in Contractor magazine about supposedly flushable baby wipes causing all sorts of trouble in sewer lines. If there is any burr or imperfection in the trap way of the toilet and if there have been wipes flushed they will get caught and they will not degrade contrary to manufacturer claims. I personally have removed numerous baby wipes from drain lines. Ask the ho if wipes HAVE EVER BEEN used and flushed down that toilet as far as she knows. If she says no, don't trust that because it is a powder room and adult visitors could easily have done it without her knowledge (apparently wipes are not just for babies anymore). Having said all that it still doesn't really make sense to be a wicking problem or else the odor would be virtually continuous except for the couple of hours following use.

Next, have you actually smelled the odor your self and does it actually smell of sewer gas? The association with rain events is very interesting. I live in a 60 year old house and occasionally we will get a horrid odor that will last for several days. This is not the same thing as you are describing in that it smells of carrion and not sewer. It is however always associated with a rain event although not every rain event. I don't think your problem is really all that similar to mine but if you figure it out I sure would like to know because maybe it will help me in some way solve mine.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Check the pedestal sink overflow, not likely but it's a place to check, put your nose to it and smell that passage way.


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

I waas thinking today...one time I had a leak in a ceiling only when it rained. I had already put a new roof on the house...come to find out, the plumber didn't glue one of the joints for the vent and it had worked itself loose at the 90. So when it rained, water would go down the stack and drip...perhaps a joint in the wall for the vent is loose...just a thought.


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

WOW! Thanks for all the input everyone! I will snake out the trap, can't see anything in there from above and didn't see anything hanging when we replaced the wax ring though. I have good attic access above and there are no roof leaks, full basement underneath is bone dry. I did seal off the pedestal overflow as well as the bath fan vent and hot air duct and the smell came back. Neither I nor my plumber have smelt the odor(I have almost no sense of smell which is often a blessing)However,I was there with 1 of my laborers once and he said he could smell it, when we lifted the septic tank lid to check that out he said it was the same smell just different intensities. The possible broken pipe in the wall has nagged at me for awhile, I just don't want to open the wall to find out,especialy due to the periodic nature of the odor,I would think a broken pipe would stink all the time. I think I'll follow some of the other suggestions first followed by a temporary toilet switch before I start opening walls. Thanks again everyone, This site is great! Phil


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Since it's a new house...maybe, maybe not,
but here goes.
Son's friend had me come over, plumbing
problems. Guy takes a shower while the 
wife is doing laundry, water backs up in 
the shower. Main drain is clogged right?
So I'm a genius (he's a techie so plumbing 
is a mystery to him).
While I'm there I'm curious how bad, 
where's the blockage...
I go into the other bathroom...down the line
from the main bath and the laundry....the
last one on the line before it exits the crawl.
When they run the first shower, and flush in
that bath...bubbles come up the trap where
I am, and it don't smell like roses.
Just one more thought to throw into the pot.....
so to speak! :whistling


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

Neolitic, Did the problem wind up being a main drain blockage?? Phil


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

philner said:


> Neolitic, Did the problem wind up being a main drain blockage?? Phil


Yeah, I knew that as soon as they showed
me the problem with the tub backing up.
He didn't know about the air being forced
back through the trap in the other bathroom,
cause...you can't be in two places 
at the same time!
Just thought something like that might be 
going on in your situation.
His deal didn't show the bubbling unless
two fixtures were draining at once,i.e.
shower and a flush, or washer discharge
and shower....
Should be fairly painless to check out, and 
the solution ain't all that bad either.

Would the powder room be the last thing
on the main line?


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm not sure what you mean by "Power room" must be a regional jargon thing. If you mean where the electrical pannel is, that's in the basement.


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

I figured it out! There is a zinc plated screw holding the clean out cover to the clean out plug in this bathroom. The screw has rusted and is allowing sewer gas to escape around the threads. It happens all the time but is only noticeable when it rains because the barometric pressure falls when it rains. This causes air/gas to become more dense. When the toilet is flushed air in the system is displaced and moves out the vent but because the air both inside and outside the system is more dense, a slight back pressure is created in the system which forces more air than normal out around the threads of the screw making the odor more noticeable when it rains.

Solution - replace the screw with a solid brass screw with pipe dope on the threads.

I'm sure I'm completely wrong since it's a basement house and all clean outs are probably in the basement but check it out anyway. I have in the past traced sewer gas odors to clean out plugs/covers.


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

That is some serious deduction:detective:, unfortunately you're right all the cleanouts(Except the one in the bottom of the sink trap) are in the basement, no cleanout covers, Thanks for trying it was a great Idea. Phil


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

Rats!


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

philner said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "Power room" must be a regional jargon thing. If you mean where the electrical pannel is, that's in the basement.


Read it now! :laughing:
Power room is one dee short of a powder room.:clap::laughing:
Spell check ain't any smarter than I am.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

From a "fix it" stand-point, this is going to be exactly ZERO help. 

But if I were you I would change out the toilet temporarily. If the smell stops, it was the original toilet...HER toilet. 

It would then be time to either: Wish her the best of luck and farewell...or...Tell her any further visits will be billed at $xx/hour plus materials used. Any further visits required of the plumber are between her and him.


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

Neolitic, the floorplan on this house is a little different and the powder room is next to the back door, the septic system is out front on the other side of the house, so yes it's the end of the line, right next to the main vent stack.
Jproffer, that might be the way we have to go. I always go way overboard on warranty issues and like to take care of anything wrong regardless of fault,even things like broken windows, grills too close to vinyl siding after being warned etc.. but this customer has been a real PITA so I might take you up on the extra charge option. I was hoping to solve the problem without any further work by my plumber eventhough, like I said, he is good, and willing to do it for free,I mhate to make my problems somebody elses if I can help it. Phil


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Wouldn't be the first time "something" 
got left in/flushed down to make a 
partial blockage.
Easy enough to check out, just have 
some one run the other fixtures for a bit
flush the other johns, and watch the 
problem child.

Anyway just an idea....
too bad they aren't like
diamonds... valued by how
rare they are! :laughing:


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

philner said:


> Neolitic, the floorplan on this house is a little different and the powder room is next to the back door, the septic system is out front on the other side of the house, so yes it's the end of the line, right next to the main vent stack.
> Jproffer, that might be the way we have to go. I always go way overboard on warranty issues and like to take care of anything wrong regardless of fault,even things like broken windows, grills too close to vinyl siding after being warned etc.. but this customer has been a real PITA so I might take you up on the extra charge option. I was hoping to solve the problem without any further work by my plumber eventhough, like I said, he is good, and willing to do it for free,I mhate to make my problems somebody elses if I can help it. Phil


I'd like to suggest, in the interests of your poor misguided plumber, that you charge the lady 4x the usual toilet install, keep 1/2, and pay the other 1/2 to your poor plumber who doesn't have sense enough to realize that this is not his problem and he should not be volunteering to pay for someone else's mistake. If he continues to do that he won't be around for very long imo.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

smellslike$tome said:


> I'd like to suggest, in the interests of your poor misguided plumber, that you charge the lady 4x the usual toilet install, keep 1/2, and pay the other 1/2 to your poor plumber who doesn't have sense enough to realize that this is not his problem and he should not be volunteering to pay for someone else's mistake. If he continues to do that he won't be around for very long imo.


If she's got the same problem as my guy,
Phil can check it out with the HO as helper,
then the plumber can come back and charge 
her to rod the drain at his "special" PITA rate! :laughing:


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

I know what the problem is, to find out send a self addressed envelope to me with a fee of $150 to me and I'll tell you what the problem is. Sound like a deal? :laughing:


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

This is what has happened, the ho was hanging that picture on the wall with one long nail and put a hole in the vent in the wall, ho did not like it there, moved the picture, painted over the spot where the hole in wall would show up, happens all the time. :thumbsup:


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

The problem with charging her is that until the problem is solved nobody knows for sure whose fault it is, It could be mine, hers or the plumber's. With the house being new it is still under my warranty,and I have my subs give me the same warranty that I give the homeowner.So without knowing the cause of the problem how do you justify charging her? I have considered the ho;e in the pipe thing, the only problem is that the smell is periodic. If the pipe had a hole in it wouldn't that make a more or less continuous smell? Phil


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

philner said:


> If the pipe had a hole in it wouldn't that make a more or less continuous smell? Phil


That depends on if her vent system sucks, blows or stays quiet most of the time.

In all seriousness, its true. If there is no air moving through the system, why would it smell much?

I think its time for a peppermint oil test personally.


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## philner (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks everyone! I have several possible Ideas to try out. I will let y'all know how it turn's out. Phil


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

philner said:


> Thanks everyone! I have several possible Ideas to try out. I will let y'all know how it turn's out. Phil


Damn well better! :laughing:


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## djpafl (Oct 26, 2007)

I have seen this problem numerous times with septic systems. While I don't have the exact answer on the cause, I assume it has to do with the venting. Most times it seems that the smell emits outside the house like it is coming from the roof vent. I have read in old code books and some state regs for septic systems that the vent shall be the same size as the building sewer (typically 4"). We have installed either "Sweet Air Vents" on the roof or wherever and/or a building trap. One of these has always solved the problem. I don't particularly like the trap but....if it works!


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

philner said:


> Thanks everyone! I have several possible Ideas to try out. I will let y'all know how it turn's out. Phil





neolitic said:


> Damn well better! :laughing:


Philner!

*STAND AND DELIVER!​*


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

I think the smell got him. 

R.I.P Philner.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

neolitic said:


> Philner!
> 
> *STAND AND DELIVER!​*


Happy Easter!


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

philner said:


> Thanks everyone! I have several possible Ideas to try out. I will let y'all know how it turn's out. Phil





neolitic said:


> Philner!
> 
> *STAND AND DELIVER!​*


:whistling:shutup::whistling


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## Herk (Aug 1, 2007)

I don't see any solutions to this being posted, but I'm wondering if anyone thought about a ceiling fan? Whether it's a fan picking up smell from the roof, or a vent in the attic that isn't plumbed through the roof or whatever, that would be about the first place I'd look. 

The occasional nature of the smell indicates to me that it's something to do either with air pressure or wind.


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