# Best way to destroy old 'lawn' and then seed?



## InterCounty (Apr 27, 2010)

I need to destroy the 'lawn' in my own backyard and reseed. I wouldn't even call it a lawn. I installed an 800' paver patio two years ago and mangled the heck out of the remaining area with a bobcat. I also spread several inches of sandy fill all over from the 6" that I removed from the patio area for rca to go down.

Anyway, the area is just weeds and giant patches of sand dirt now.

I *thought* I would spray RoundUp (one that says I can seed 3 days later), rototill, put down 2" new topsoil and then seed. 
I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do now bc I read a bunch of stuff on the web and much of it conflicts.
Till/Don't till, Roll/Don't roll
Spray, wait, spray, till, wait, seed / Spray wait 3 days & till 

I figured let me ask the experts before I screw it up.
Thanks


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I done mine and there's no way your gonna be able to reseed after just 3 days. I tried at 2 weeks and the seed wouldn't take. The fall is also the best time to do this. 

The way I done mine was 

Roundup 
Wait few days roundup again 
Wait couple weeks and use something like a Harley rake to give you good surface for seed 
Do a contractor mix of 
annual ryegrass 30%
Tall fescue/local grass 70%
Fertilize 

Ryegrass will grow very quickly and look great before winter comes. Tall fescue for me was much slower and will go dormant in the winter until soil temps get over 50f.

I seeded with tall fescue again in March with a over seed to fill in the areas I missed or didn't start to take. 

I now have the best yard on the street so gonna try and keep it that way.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

As I recall, spring is the time to kill it when it's most active. Apply round-up over 60 degrees, etc. Maybe a follow-up treatment a few weeks later, then after a few more weeks it's time for sod. Something like that.

Early fall would be time for seed, provided it germinates. Something like that. Look into tall, drought-tolerant fescues. And since you're in NY, look for "cool season" grasses unless you like brown lawns over winter.

Not sure how current, but This Old House just did sod (that was applied in frost conditions) that was a drought-tolerant, low water tall fescue hybrid. Might have been called "black beauty", but I could be wrong.

Edit: weather-wise, this week is perfect to get going with it. (Double-check with your local garden nursery, of course, but I'm fairly sure. Once consideration is whether you have stuff like Bermuda grass (warm season stuff). That doesn't get active until 80 degree days, or something like that.

I've been meaning to do it for years but always get too busy to bother.


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## InterCounty (Apr 27, 2010)

I know there are several types of RoundUp
There are RoundUps listed that say prevent growth for 4 months and another says 1 year.

The one I linked to above (red cap) specifically says 3 days for reseed. 
Is the 3 day thing just a lie? Heck even if its a week or two that would be fine. I would love to get a lawn before it gets hot.

Should I rototill?


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

The time to grow grass is in the fall!

Go ahead and kill it, try some seed, if it doesn't work, kill it in the fall and do it right.

Hot days, cool nights to grow grass. I've done it twice now. Worked both times.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

InterCounty said:


> I know there are several types of RoundUp
> 
> There are RoundUps listed that say prevent growth for 4 months and another says 1 year.
> 
> ...



If your ground is not roughed up enough and almost solid in places you need to get it disturbed enough for the seed to get good ground contact. This is very important step. The problem with this time of year here is heat. Today it hit 80c and the ground sets out real quick even with straw covering the ground. You would need to water at least 3x a day for first few weeks and 2x a day after that. In fall it's much more forgiving with missing a water by even a couple days.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

InterCounty said:


> I know there are several types of RoundUp
> There are RoundUps listed that say prevent growth for 4 months and another says 1 year.
> 
> The one I linked to above (red cap) specifically says 3 days for reseed.
> ...


All depends on what's there. For example, rototilling Bermuda Grass would be a huge mistake since it chops up the underground shoots and makes them more vigorous.

You should take some pics and talk to a local, high end nursery or similar. Tell them what you're aiming to do and they'll steer you to their guru.

Also, check into your state "cooperative extension". There may be a great online resource from them (Or read the one for VA or PA, which are similar region and both great.)


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I've got about 16k sq feet to do, divided up at 4 sites.

We've tried the reseeding thing just over the grass, with top soil, Roundup etc....

Best results are obtained when we remove 2-4 inches of duff, weeds hard soil etc.

Then rake, add top soil, seed & roll.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

St. Augustine, makes a great lawn and it self repairs.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

A long term transition from old to new can take from 1 - 3 seasons... the bigger the lawn, the longer it takes...

.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KAP said:


> A long term transition from old to new can take from 1 - 3 seasons... the bigger the lawn, the longer it takes...
> 
> .


Depends on where you live


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

InterCounty said:


> I know there are several types of RoundUp
> There are RoundUps listed that say prevent growth for 4 months and another says 1 year.
> 
> The one I linked to above (red cap) specifically says 3 days for reseed.
> ...



I live in farm country, so I've learned a thing or 2 about growing & killing things.:laughing:

First off, the roundup you're looking for will not actually be labeled roundup. Generic RU will have 41% glysophate. It's concentrate & for most applications, you'll want to mix it at about 3% RU. If you've got any farm stores such as tractor supply, they'll carry what you're looking for. RU will only attack what's actively growing & has no residual effects on the soil or dormant seeds. You can actually plant before, or immediately after spraying if that's what you wanted to do.

2-4D (also available at farm stores) will control broad leaf weeds without harming your newly established grasses. So, if you've got a big crop of dandelions or other broadleaved weeds popping up, spray with 2-4d. It does have a residual effect & will help control broadleaved weeds for several weeks.

A lot of your weed & feed products have a pre emergent herbicide that will keep weed seeds from germinating. 


The biggest issue, is what do you have for soil? If it's all sand, or all clay, you're not going to have real good luck establishing grass. But if you've got decent soil to start with, growing grass isn't that complicated. Get the ground smooth. I'd till & drag. I use a harrow behind my 4 wheeler, but I doubt you have access to those. An old metal bedpring set, or length of chain link fence will work good for smoothing. Keep in mind, if you're going to till, you don't need RU, you'll destroy the root system of the weeds with the tiller.

As I said, growing grass isn't that complicated. Like all living things, it needs to eat & drink. If you've got decent soil, you've got the food to germinate grass seed. Next, you need to give it something to drink. Once you spread your seed, give it layer of straw to help hold moisture while your new grass is getting established. Then keep it watered good while it germinates. That watering is probably the most important step to getting your grass to grow. 

Did I mention it's extremely important to keep your new lawn watered good?:laughing::laughing:

As already mentioned, the easiest time to establish new grass is the fall, but I've had excellent results starting grass in the spring & even in the middle of summer. The key, is keeping it watered.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

I thought the black plastic sheet over the top, lay brick to prvent movement will pretty much solar cook the roots to high hell.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> Depends on where you live


I don't see how it can be less than 1 season... but I'm not a landscaper or lawn specialist... I would imagine anything can be done... for a price... :whistling

.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KAP said:


> I don't see how it can be less than 1 season... but I'm not a landscaper or lawn specialist... I would imagine anything can be done... for a price... :whistling:
> 
> .


We don't really have seasons here. :laughing:


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> We don't really have seasons here. :laughing:


LOL... but my guess would be water's an issue there... so?... :whistling :laughing:

Can't believe your governor wants to fine people $10K for "wasting water", of course, this being determined by government...

.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KAP said:


> LOL... but my guess would be water's an issue there... so?... :whistling :laughing:
> 
> Can't believe your governor wants to fine people $10K for "wasting water", of course, this being determined by government...
> 
> .


True but we can still water or lawns. 







Californiadecks said:


> We don't really have seasons here. :laughing:


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## Eaglei (Aug 1, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> True but we can still water or lawns.


Unless of course you have artificial turf :laughing:


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

I'm in a similar spot. Did some work on my house and tore up a bunch of the lawn from trenching, machine, and just general work. Never reseeded it and now it is just weeds basically. My plan was to rototill everything up. Rake it up and take it away. Then come in with a loam, compost mix and reseed.


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## jsl (Jun 4, 2015)

Seriously consider using sod instead of seed. Seed takes a long time to develop a root system to withstand foot traffic. The extra cost is worth the instant grass effect. And better yet is synthetic turf is its not that big an area.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

pinwheel said:


> I live in farm country, so I've learned a thing or 2 about growing & killing things.:laughing:
> 
> First off, the roundup you're looking for will not actually be labeled roundup. Generic RU will have 41% glysophate. It's concentrate & for most applications, you'll want to mix it at about 3% RU. If you've got any farm stores such as tractor supply, they'll carry what you're looking for. RU will only attack what's actively growing & has no residual effects on the soil or dormant seeds. You can actually plant before, or immediately after spraying if that's what you wanted to do.
> 
> ...


Pin that was an awesome article/post and for some reason it made me think of my late uncle who built and owned a nursery/landscaping company. Pretty sure that's exactly what he would say as well! :thumbsup:


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