# Pavers over concrete



## dvatt (Apr 16, 2009)

I have a client who wants pavers installed over their small patio that is 8' x 8'. They live in pa so we do have freeze and thaw cycles. Will construction adhesive on the borders work and then lay the field and then use a polymer sand work? I have insisted they remove the concrete but they want economy.


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## CHRenewal (Aug 12, 2012)

dvatt said:


> I have a client who wants pavers installed over their small patio that is 8' x 8'. They live in pa so we do have freeze and thaw cycles. Will construction adhesive on the borders work and then lay the field and then use a polymer sand work? I have insisted they remove the concrete but they want economy.


I've done it. We have soldiered coursed pavers around the edges in concrete creating a border to lay the pavers in and then usually herringbone pattern the pavers over an inch of sand on the concrete and then poly sand them in. Make sure you use sand as the concrete will crack and move. 

I've seen someone thinset it and it didn't work.

As long as you create a rigid border to hold then in, then it should work. 

I wouldn't do what you thought about even though I have no idea if it would work long term. My gut tells me you would get a call back on that.


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## dvatt (Apr 16, 2009)

CHRenewal said:


> I've done it. We have soldiered coursed pavers around the edges in concrete creating a border to lay the pavers in and then usually herringbone pattern the pavers over an inch of sand on the concrete and then poly sand them in. Make sure you use sand as the concrete will crack and move.
> 
> I've seen someone thinset it and it didn't work.
> 
> ...


Will rain wash out the sand? I was thinking of using a 2.5" soldier course and then a 1.5 in field course w an inch of sand


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Where's the water going to drain?


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## dvatt (Apr 16, 2009)

T
I was worried about washing out the sand


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## dvatt (Apr 16, 2009)

Would it be better to use ditra and then install a ceramic tile?


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

What kind or pavers are you considering? - clay or concrete?

Interlocking pavers are made to be set tight an small vertical ridges on the lower 2/3 of the pavers provide a small space for the hand-spread surface sand an the uniform 1" setting sand be drawn into the small gap while vibrating with a plate vibrator. That is for a normal patio, driveway, street of industrial application. Clay units are not as precise due to the firing and the manufacturing methods do not allow the various different shape that people seem to want.

The problem with laying the pavers over concrete is that there is no drainage for the water that eventually get in and the pavers can float or "swim", which destroys the stability and can cause freeze-thaw damage in colder climates unless there is a compacted gravel base under the setting bed. Adhesives can have the dame durability problems and polymeric sand is really not waterproof and the long term life is not proven.

An adhered edge also can trap water under and around the pavers in the center of the field.

Just some thoughts. - Few people want to pay the price for a job done right.


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

dvatt said:


> I have a client who wants pavers installed over their small patio that is 8' x 8'. They live in pa so we do have freeze and thaw cycles. Will construction adhesive on the borders work and then lay the field and then use a polymer sand work? I have insisted they remove the concrete but they want economy.


I've done exactly what you're proposing a number of times in the past with success. Theoretically, freeze thaw can create some movement between the slab and brick, but the sand has enough give for the minimal movement. I've actually done a few where we glued the edges and drylaid the brick directly on the concrete w/o any sand bedding with similar success. Just don't attempt to mortar the joints together, as you'll inevitably have some movement..............


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## dvatt (Apr 16, 2009)

So dry lay the field and use polymer sand for the joints?


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

dvatt said:


> So dry lay the field and use polymer sand for the joints?


I can't decide for you, but can tell you that I've had success doing it. You're the one who has seen the shape of the existing slab, not me (has it sunk at all, and is it pitching the correct way?) and ultimately you'll be the one that has to honor any issues with it.............


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## CHRenewal (Aug 12, 2012)

dvatt said:


> Will rain wash out the sand? I was thinking of using a 2.5" soldier course and then a 1.5 in field course w an inch of sand


You know the one I did it on was 5 years ago and there have been no problems. We redid their kitchen last year, and it looks as good as they day we did it. But this slab has a slope, and the roof runoff is diverted by gutters. I suppose if you have standing water it could cause some problems. 

Are you planning on laying them in tight or leaving joints between pavers? My experience has not shown any kind of float out once the polymer sand locks in on tight laid pavers.

I suppose if you are worried about that, you could add some weep holes between your soldiers on the downhill side of the slab.


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## CHRenewal (Aug 12, 2012)

dvatt said:


> Would it be better to use ditra and then install a ceramic tile?


This is a good option. You could actually use Ditra and thinset using tile pavers. I would still soldier it up so it looks good. As long as they pay you for it!!!!:thumbsup: If not, walk away......

You know how much more would it be to just jackhammer out 64 sqft?? I could do that in an hour!! sand is cheaper than Ditra.

Some jobs, you just may need to pass on if they nickel and dime you.

Good Luck.


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## 2low4nh (Dec 12, 2010)

80 mm pavers on the border 60mm pavers in the field. drill holes through crete use an underlayment and sand bedding.


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## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

Cant tell you that it was the right way,because I brought this topic up about a year ago . But about 8 years ago on my mothers house I paved over my mothers patio with red brick paver using thinset . I left approx . a 1/8 in gap when done I used a 6/1 pointing sand / portland and i live in Pa. and knock on wood not one problem. Only problem was on one part on the walkway thank God ,it popped where the control joint was . I just popped those bricks out and relayed about 12 bricks staying on the side of the joint and not had a problem since and that was about 6 years ago. But it had nothing to do with the bricks staying down.


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## dvatt (Apr 16, 2009)

What adhesive would anyone recommend for the birder? Pl4000?


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Why wouldnt you mud down bricks? seems like you are going round and round looking for a way to do masonry without actually doing masonry.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

What about using vast pavers from azek?

http://www.azek.com/vast/

Cole


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## dvatt (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm just looking for the best way to do this, I'm not trying to avoid anything.


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## slatteryco (Jun 24, 2008)

Run your glue bead @ 90 deg. to edge so that moisture can escape...PL premium works fine. Gator makes a poly sand for overlays. It will work.


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## sleeper (Sep 17, 2012)

Hi, I’m new here and not a mason guy, but I am interested in this because I have a 12’x30’ slab with some cracks that I would like to conceal. I thought about tile, but it never occurred to me about pavers. Does it matter if the slab is cracked?


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