# Anyone frustrated and stressed with their business?



## Lisremodeling (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi guys, new here. Was wondering how you guys are doing in the Remodelig business. Dealing with subs, with your labor, with clients. Is it mostly stressful and frustrating or just on occasional bases? 
Started our business 9 years ago, me and my husband. He was a tile guy but started a handyman business and we've been growing every year, he's very creative, knowledgable, honest, clean and really a perfectionist. So we've had pretty good growth, few years ago started doing kitchens and bathrooms and finally rebranded last year for design and remodel company. 
More work, means more guys to deal with, running multiple jobs, and being everywhere. 
My husband is getting overwhelmed and stressed more and more dealing with his guys and subs. Feels like no one does proper work, no one is really good and we spend time on redoing things. This obviously didnt happen when he was solo. 
So does anyone have their story to share? Are we the only ones feeling this way? 
Thanks


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

> ....Feels like no one does proper work, no one is really good and we spend time on redoing things....


That IS the business. New or remodeling, samo, samo.


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

can`t find even one decent normal employee.
one new guy cut his hand almost completely off, the third hour on the job ,6 months back.
my 6 year employee , quit with not even a days notice ( right after he was out on a 3 week vacation because he has a bad back.
" COULDN'T YOU TELL ME BEFORE YOU WENT ON VACATION??!"

subs , work to their own time-line . either so hungry for work they call you when they need work , but when you need them , they are flooded with work , and cant get there when you need.
then they send their new , non - english speaking guy to the job, who doesn't do as good as the guy you expected to be there , the guy who has been doing your work for years.
and they don`t clean up after themselves.

clients want cheaper price , but expect perfection , even though , you can see the rest of their home was never kept up.some wont let us use their bathroom , so we have to drive to the gas station .want us to get there at 9 or 10 , because the want to sleep late , or take their kid to school.

supplies don`t come when they`re supposed to ( today , i`m waiting for the 5th day for typical shutter prices fro my supplier of 25 years)

i have no idea what your talking about :blink:

nowadays( and some won`t agree) construction and remodeling is a left over trade . i do`t know anyone who grows up saying " i want to remodel."
i want to be a tile guy"
i want to work construction"
it seems like " well i never stuck to one thing , i`ll get into constructions "
most have issues from the start 
and hard part is . there is no certification for most of the carpentry trades 
so you have to hire them to see if they know what they are talking about .
then it still takes 2 -3 weeks to see the real person , and all their quirks.

hey ,
in the big scheme of work-life you still have to ask yourself at that worst moment ;
" should i work for someone else ? work just as hard , and make less money? "
or just persist , and keep looking for the diamond in the rough guys
teach yourself not to stress over things you can`t control
does your husband stress on things in general , and is totally even keel ,but stresses over business?
you know the old " you can be good at remodeling , or anything , but that doesn't mean your good at " the business of " that same thing .

either persevere , or decide " this is not for me !"

neither one is wrong


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

How much more money are you making now than just doing tile? 3x?10x? 


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

This is exactly what remodeling is all about.


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## LPG (Jan 19, 2017)

I am a greenhorn compared to some of the guys on here. Some things that have made a huge impact on my stress level-

1) Establishing great relationships with the subs who go the extra mile for me
----I don't necessarily award subs based on low price, and occasionally throw them a bonus if its warranted.

2) Knowing you can't control everything. Its way too easy to stress over any little thing that goes wrong, or not according to your Gantt chart. Accepting the fact that **** will happen, helps.

3) Managing your clients. This means, letting them know-
---There will be days with no one on site
---The schedule WILL change
---Subs are busy, but you will do your best.
Otherwise you'll be getting panicked phone calls when any of the above occur.


THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE IVE GOTTEN----

*CHARGE MORE* 

It is much easier dealing with the BS of our day to day when you're making money...it also helps when **** hits the fan. Having the extra money in the budget for the inevitable things like-supplementing subs, gaps in scope, throwing a bunch of your guys on site to pickup the slack or punch a project out.....makes things so much easier.

But, Im still a greenhorn


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## mkb (Dec 13, 2017)

LPG said:


> I am a greenhorn compared to some of the guys on here. Some things that have made a huge impact on my stress level-
> 
> 1) Establishing great relationships with the subs who go the extra mile for me
> ----I don't necessarily award subs based on low price, and occasionally throw them a bonus if its warranted.
> ...


Could not agree more! For us, the hardest thing is finding reliable and honest subs to work with.


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## Lady Dreamer (Jan 6, 2019)

SmallTownGuy said:


> That IS the business. New or remodeling, samo, samo.


True story that is business. 

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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Like the old saying goes... 

*"If it were easy, everyone would do it..."  :laughing:*​

One of the things that may help make the stress more easy to handle (sometime endure) is having an end-game... Most guys (us included early on) are focused on the today aspect of their business because it's what takes up most of their time dealing with issues...

Does your business planning include the long term things that make the journey worth it? Things like... retirement/closing the business, health insurance, savings (emergency, school planning for kids, personal), scheduled vacations, business growth (and at what point is your peak to maintain the balance between life and profitability), sub-relationship development, etc...

Sometimes just grinding it from one paycheck to another (or lack thereof) while owning a business can grind down your enthusiasm and make it seem more stressful than it really is and get you wondering if it's worth it... Expanding your vision beyond the day-to-day provides another level of motivation that can suppress some of that stress knowing you have something your working towards...


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

We're in America...how stressed can you get ?


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

KAP said:


> One of the things that may help make the stress more easy to handle (sometime endure) is having an end-game... Most guys (us included early on) are focused on the today aspect of their business because it's what takes up most of their time dealing with issues...
> 
> Does your business planning include the long term things that make the journey worth it? Things like... retirement/closing the business, health insurance, savings (emergency, school planning for kids, personal), scheduled vacations, business growth (and at what point is your peak to maintain the balance between life and profitability), sub-relationship development, etc...
> 
> Sometimes just grinding it from one paycheck to another (or lack thereof) while owning a business can grind down your enthusiasm and make it seem more stressful than it really is and get you wondering if it's worth it... Expanding your vision beyond the day-to-day provides another level of motivation that can suppress some of that stress knowing you have something your working towards...


This is great advice no matter what business you are in.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

not everyone is cut out to run multiple crews/subs/jobs.

if you were happier & less stressed as a one man show, so be it...

life is too short....

take some time to enjoy it...


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

griz said:


> not everyone is cut out to run multiple crews/subs/jobs.
> 
> if you were happier & less stressed as a one man show, so be it...
> 
> ...


I was going to say, if you don't have people skills, management or multi-tasking skills.....you will go nuts. And you are stressed because of lack of skills in handling those situations, and/or, staying out of those situations to begin with.


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## Ed Hartmann (Dec 26, 2018)

How much time does he still spend working in the field? It seems that what happens to a lot of people is that they feel they are needed in the field 50 plus hours a week. They also feel they are needed to run the business 50 plus hours a week. The result is a very long week and never feeling like you can keep up or catch your breath. Finding the right balance here might help if any of that resonates.


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## Lisremodeling (Feb 14, 2019)

woodspike said:


> can`t find even one decent normal employee.
> one new guy cut his hand almost completely off, the third hour on the job ,6 months back.
> my 6 year employee , quit with not even a days notice ( right after he was out on a 3 week vacation because he has a bad back.
> " COULDN'T YOU TELL ME BEFORE YOU WENT ON VACATION??!"
> ...


Thank you for sharing this, it's helpful to know how others are dealing with issues and to see that we are not the only ones with this problems.


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## Lisremodeling (Feb 14, 2019)

LPG said:


> I am a greenhorn compared to some of the guys on here. Some things that have made a huge impact on my stress level-
> 
> 1) Establishing great relationships with the subs who go the extra mile for me
> ----I don't necessarily award subs based on low price, and occasionally throw them a bonus if its warranted.
> ...


Thanks for sharing your tips. We will definitely try those.


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## Lisremodeling (Feb 14, 2019)

Ed Hartmann said:


> How much time does he still spend working in the field? It seems that what happens to a lot of people is that they feel they are needed in the field 50 plus hours a week. They also feel they are needed to run the business 50 plus hours a week. The result is a very long week and never feeling like you can keep up or catch your breath. Finding the right balance here might help if any of that resonates.


He's gone from 7am till about 5 or 6pm, then he comes home and after dinner spends few hours on preparing the estimates and working on the schedule. He doesn't do the actual work as much, I would say he works 50% of the time, but he's running on every project, checking things, and then seeing new clients. So during the day, he takes no time to work on the business. I do rest of the work, typing up the estimates, doing the designs on the computer, managing office, bills, etc... I feel we need a project manager but the problem is that I don't think we can afford one, but then maybe we should do it anyways?


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## mkb (Dec 13, 2017)

Lisremodeling said:


> He's gone from 7am till about 5 or 6pm, then he comes home and after dinner spends few hours on preparing the estimates and working on the schedule. He doesn't do the actual work as much, I would say he works 50% of the time, but he's running on every project, checking things, and then seeing new clients. So during the day, he takes no time to work on the business. I do rest of the work, typing up the estimates, doing the designs on the computer, managing office, bills, etc... I feel we need a project manager but the problem is that I don't think we can afford one, but then maybe we should do it anyways?


Wow, Im in the same situation as you. I spend most of my day following up/sending out estimates, keeping track of bills, the back end stuff etc. My brother who is my partner goes to appointments, coordinates subs etc and we're at a point where a project manager would help so much, but debating if it's worth it, and also how hard will it be to find someone we can trust and rely on....


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

If you think you need a project manager, start charging like you already hired one and see how that shakes out.


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## Lady Dreamer (Jan 6, 2019)

hdavis said:


> If you think you need a project manager, start charging like you already hired one and see how that shakes out.


Yes!!!

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## Ed Hartmann (Dec 26, 2018)

Lisremodeling said:


> He's gone from 7am till about 5 or 6pm, then he comes home and after dinner spends few hours on preparing the estimates and working on the schedule. He doesn't do the actual work as much, I would say he works 50% of the time, but he's running on every project, checking things, and then seeing new clients. So during the day, he takes no time to work on the business. I do rest of the work, typing up the estimates, doing the designs on the computer, managing office, bills, etc... I feel we need a project manager but the problem is that I don't think we can afford one, but then maybe we should do it anyways?


I might look into Tim Faller and the lead carpenter system. Seams like a system you might be able to transition to with an existing carpenter.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

hdavis said:


> If you think you need a project manager, start charging like you already hired one and see how that shakes out.


If you're doing something you can't afford to pay to have done, you're just working your business for free and aren't as successful of a business as you think you are.


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

Lisremodeling said:


> He's gone from 7am till about 5 or 6pm, then he comes home and after dinner spends few hours on preparing the estimates and working on the schedule. He doesn't do the actual work as much, I would say he works 50% of the time, but he's running on every project, checking things, and then seeing new clients. So during the day, he takes no time to work on the business. I do rest of the work, typing up the estimates, doing the designs on the computer, managing office, bills, etc... I feel we need a project manager but the problem is that I don't think we can afford one, but then maybe we should do it anyways?


 the word " afford" has alot of definitions.
are you saying, after paying payroll and paying overhead , your barely making enough to pay you guys a salary.
are you saying your profiting , and you don`t want to profit less?
if a project manager comes in , he is supposed to make things easier, and run better , so hubby , can take on more jobs .
but the he is till going to be running all day , everyday

sounds like your doing things right . wife and i did that for years ( shes a bookkeeper by trade , so that was awesome)
but we finally didn`t like working together. just had nothing to talk about after work , but work , she ended up working elsewhere. also , because we had 2 kids , and she needed to do more for the kids because i was working too many hours.
are you giving 40 hours too? not judging at all. or would it be better if you had a 40 hour employee doing your part , who could help with the managing , and estimating?
and you could work elsewhere ?,
again , just asking , not judging , or meddling.

theres a solution , your hubby , and you sound like hard workers.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

All of the above applies.

The exact same reasons I'm sitting here on CT rather than doing estimates, like I need to be doing.

One thing to think about. Are you making more money? You can say you are doing less of the physical labor, and that is a benefit. But, do you make more money?

The reality is you and your husband are working yourself to death and it will start to affect your marriage.

One thing that helps me, that I didn't do, in the beginning. I take a weekly salary. In my case, my lead guy also gets a weekly salary. At the moment we don't have any employees, but we usually pick up a couple through the year. They never work out.

I also have an office. When I started, I had an office in my house. As things went on, I had a bigger office, still in my house. This is handy, but it also means you can go sit down and work an hour in the evenings. Then it becomes more. By having an office, not in the home, it forces me to leave it behind. I think it makes my homelife better.

My phone will be next. Years ago, it was a landline. You didn't have to worry about phone calls all day long. Now, a cell phone is really the only way to go. It's what people expect.
Get a separate number/phone, for personal use. For family and friends only. Then, turn your phone off at a set time. Turn it back on in the morning.
This is a big help and also lets you spend down time with your spouse. 
The breaking point for me was the amount of calls I was getting during off hours. My phone would start ringing about 6:00 in the morning, because alot of people knew I would be up. I have had texts, that need a reply, shortly after 5 in the morning. I was also getting calls/texts late in the evening. After 7 was not unusual. I had one at 10:40. Even last night I had a message at 10:01. (I saw it this morning, when I turned my phone on)
People may say, just don't answer, but it's not in our nature. If we don't, then there is a voicemail, then we think we need to listen to it. Then, it's an easy question and we go ahead and reply.
Customers also text now. Alot. Text messages take time to reply. A text conversation takes 10 times longer, in my opinion. Usually I just call them, when they text me. It saves alot of time. I tried to play the text game, but it will eat up your life.

That's if for now. I need to get to work. The time on here says it's afternoon, but it's 8:00 am. I don't know how to change that. Kind of my point. We all work alot.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

I’m really curious about the actual numbers. Were they making 80k and now 150-200k with the bigger headaches ? I’ll take 100k with limited hours and stress over 250 and miserable. 


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## Adamthebuilder (Apr 14, 2016)

Lisremodeling - Come to this site daily and check out the forums. There are many very smart contributors who articulate very well, with just a few words or sentences. I was born into he building business and am still learning. Currently, I am in Vegas at the Builders Show (IBS) taking three all day classes. Many of the items you touched upon in your initial post were part of the curriculum in the courses I am taking. The NAHB and also NARI have classes and certifications that will help both you and your husband. Sign up and register for any classes to for yourselves to break away from the daily grind. It will benefit both your business and marriage.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I asked if you are making more money. I should have been more specific. Maybe you don't want more money.

If you are trading some of the physical labor for less strenuous work days, then it may be worth it, to make a little less.

That is where I'm at. Slowly becoming a General Contractor. This will allow me to continue working, but I won't have to put forth the amount of physical labor that I currently have to do.

As a definition, in my area a General Contractor hires subs to perform the different trades of the projects and the General just manages the project. 
The definition is different in different areas.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

https://www.markupandprofit.com/

Read everything on that site. :thumbsup:


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## SearchforSignal (Aug 30, 2016)

I'm just a small one man operation. I'm in my 2nd full year of business for myself. I already raised my prices for 2019. Will be rebranding my business to focus more on the remodel aspect. I can not find quality people to work with. I have chose just to stay small and raise my prices as much as the market will allow. I have seen first hand how other "crews" work and I couldn't work with them. Inefficient with almost every aspect of work. It would drive me nuts if I were their GC. Best of luck.

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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm basically a one man show if I was stressed over anything it would be that I'm swamped but I tend to thrive on being busy. If you're getting stressed out either changes need to be made or you don't have what it takes to be a contractor. 

Seeing post on contractor talk seems my business is peaches & cream.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

There's a way to get rid of frustration and stress...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Prefrontal lobotomy?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

hdavis said:


> There's a way to get rid of frustration and stress...


yea, take her to dinner....:whistling:laughing::laughing:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> Prefrontal lobotomy?


Cordless drill and duct tape, what could go wrong?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

griz said:


> yea, take her to dinner....:whistling:laughing::laughing:


I'd have to be using your wallet for that one.:whistling


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

hdavis said:


> I'd have to be using your wallet for that one.:whistling


you get a dinner date with her & i'll buy dinner...:whistling:laughing:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

griz said:


> yea, take her to dinner....:whistling:laughing::laughing:


Does the stress relief come before or after dinner?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

avenge said:


> Does the stress relief come before or after dinner?


If you're Inner, it already happened.:blink:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Prefrontal lobotomy?


I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.:jester:


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## It'sBusiness (Feb 21, 2019)

There is so much to this subject we have to pick a target and address that. Some great comments already though on:
-Be clear on your long term objective
-Don't grow just for the sake of getting bigger
-Your quality of life has to matter
-Price your work for the value you bring, not a price the client wants to see
-Which can only happen if you have the stones to decline certain jobs

Here's my bit of wisdom: If you're thinking of hiring, don't look for the skill set you already have (I'm not the first one to say that!) Take the time to write down how you add the most value to your company. On a separate page, write down where you actually spend your time. Odds are there's a disconnect and you're doing an awful lot of low value work (e.g. book keeping) that is keeping you from doing more of what you do best. The person you want to hire (or contract out) is the one who can do that other stuff. The value they bring isn't in the work they do, it's in what you will achieve when you can focus on your strengths. Or another way to put it is, the earning power to pay for that person will have to come from you.

15 years ago I was hired by the owner of a General Contractor as his Operations Manager. He was just pulled in too many directions and wanted his life back. But a funny thing happened when he went back to what he did well (Customer relations, Managing Projects). Sales doubled, profit margins rose, receivables problems vanished. I couldn't run a building project. He couldn't run an office. Marriage made in heaven.


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## Kana (Nov 5, 2018)

Lots of great advise here. 

Only thing I can add is don't spend all your time on fixing each situation. Solve the problem so it stops happening. Everything has a solution. What's managed will get done, so make it important.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Some people have a problem for every solution. 


Mike.
_______________


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