# Urethane Grout Discoloration & "Wet" Spots



## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

Hello gentlemen! I've been reading this forum for quite some time but I haven't had a reason to join or post a question until now. I am the designer and manager in a GC's team and after we encountered problems I offered to post this here in case anyone could help us out. 

Client specified Bostik Reflective Dimension Urethane Grout, and tiler assured us that they had used it before. After the tilers did an excellent job with the tiles (2 bathrooms, kitchen floor, other sink areas, laundry room) they came back to grout. 

We all noticed (like the pink elephant in the room) that the grout that was supposed to be sparkly white (Diamond is the color) looks darker in some places and lighter in others and is not uniform in color at all. At first we thought it might be related to the cure time and temperature but after over a week, this should not be an issue. Basically, you may not be able to see this from the picture, but it looks damp, and this picture is the worst area.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

They didn't clean out the thinset, looks like from here.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

How about they ran out of grout and didnt finish. Looks like there isnt grout in the middle and they didn't clean like stated above at the corner.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

*So what's the solution?*

Thank you so much for your prompt replies CarpenterSFO and ohiohome doctor! How do we fix this? Do they have to remove and re-grout? Would partially removing the top layer and reapplying work/help?


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

*GC says they used white thinset!*

My gut instinct is that they didn't properly mix the urethane grout but I wanted someone here to say that because I am not a professional tiler. GC says that the area looks dark and than they used white thinset so he doesn't think that not cleaning is the issue.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

*Angus, where art thou?*

Would Angus, tile guru par excellance, take out a few minutes to offer his expert advice and troubleshoot our dilemma? :clap:


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

From the picture(which isn't great), I would first suspect that it's grey thinset that did not get scraped out before grouting. I haven't used the Dimension grout but isn't it supposed to be translucent? If that's the case and they used grey thinset then you might have some work ahead of you. 

The grout needs to be removed enough for the new grout to really key in there. I remove all of the existing grout. You need to be really careful not to damage the waterproofing membrane when you're raking out a wet area.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree with the above conclusions. Dimensions grout is translucent abd the grey mortar is showing through.

That's why it's important to not skimp on white mortar. Yea you save a few bucks but nit if this is the result. The tile setter should have known better. Even if you are using a translucent grout you always go with white on light grout.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

The only good thing is the grout is easy to remove with a knife, If it is thinset under there cut it out too. if the grout is poorly mixed that is also solved by cutting it out. because urethane bonds to it self you wont have to get every little bit off. but dont be afraid to cut into it to get a better understanding.
if it is all grout ( I question that this is the only problem) call your supplier and see if they will comp you a bucket to fix it.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok I will try to post more pictures soon. Thanks TNTServices and Charimon. I really appreciate your collective help!


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok so the GC himself removed the grout&thinset and redid it. He says there was no thinset beneath the grout where it looked wet (as in the pic). He says its better but not perfect...it doesnt look damp but the product isn't consistent throughout, some areas darker and lighter. And we went and looked in the open areas where light &plumbing fixtures go and they used white thinset for white tile and gray for the gray. Could it be the grout?

We followed all the instructions, and still not consistent color throughout. Any other ideas? Thanks you guys.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I would get the rep out there who makes the grout.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Pics?


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

I had the same issue with a shower I just did.

Very small spot....maybe 2 inches long, on the floor in QL2 raincloud grey. (walls were Starquartz Opal though)

Couldn't figure out why it happened. Almost looked like a nice clump of mud got caught underneath the grout in that joint. I did the floor myself so I know it was clean though.

I'm just going to cut it out and re-grout, but I would love to hear if anyone figures it out.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

The whole project got very busy as we are coordinating finishing up (painting is done and kitchen cabinets are coming in, scheduling LVT floor install, etc). I will take pictures today at any rate since I told the rep I would do so. Client decided she cannot stand the inconsistent color and she is upset that she paid so much for this grout. After the GC himself regrouted she believes him that it is probably the grout, possibly the fact that the colors this happened with are light colored grout colors (diamond and moonstone). This did not occur with the darker almost black colored grout she selected for the mosaic border. I will take pics of that too.

Thankfully, she is however willing to pay to regrout. She researched kerapoxy cq but GC advises against anything but the traditional cement grout with sealer. GC swears he will never use urethane grout again after this experience. Because I work with and trust the GC (he is really a great guy and steadfastly honest), I am inclined to agree. I wonder what you guys think. Thanks!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Use urethane all of the time with no issue. If you want maintenance and mildew go with cementious grouts.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I use quite a bit of QL2 and never had a problem upto yet. Fingers crossed I don't as I don't wanna be cutting it all out.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

In the end, I figure the one little spot I have is not going to change my preference for urethane at all.

I have a bunch of it down and all performing wonderfully.
Showers.....sunrooms (with lots of plants and water and filth)...laundry rooms....mud rooms.....

I did my own shower with a lighter color, Mushroom (?) a light beige, and then purposely avoided cleaning it for quite a long time....like 6 or 8 months.

The floor joints were only slightly dirty near the entrance to the shower that does not get any spray from the shower head. I took a grout brush in one day and lightly scrubbed while I was showering.......back to the original color in seconds. 

Try that test with cementitious.....sealed or not.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

If the GC told the customer that he would only use cementitious then that's what he should do. If either of you muddies the water any more after this experience the HO will never be satisfied with the product.

I almost never use cementitious grout and I like urethane quite a bit. That said, a properly installed and maintained cementitious grout isn't going to fail anytime soon. It's getting the HO to actually DO the maintenance that I gave up on.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok so here are the pics...


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

Ok so the file sizes are too large...what am i supposed to do?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

upload to photobucket and link in a post


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

OK im in the process of registering w photobucket


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

*additional pics*

http://s36.photobucket.com/user/adiaphoria5/library/


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

*Dimension grout by bostik*

I just want to emphasize that im talking about DIMENSION grout by Bostik. Not just any urethane grout. So any comments about urethane grout do not apply since this is a different product. Thanks again.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

The issues that i see look more like tile and installation issues. there are several pics of uneven joint size which suggests that someone wanted tighter joints than the tile varence allowed for. Some pics show glitter stuck to the tile showing incomplete washing. Some show the joints are unevenly filled likely cause is a hand sponge. Some appropate Fila cleaner will deal with the flash on the tile.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm sorry, but that tile installation and the grouting are both sloppy - lippage, uneven spacing, and uneven grout work. When you use a product like that, that calls attention to the lines, your trade work has to be up to it, and that isn't close. That's the problem.

Edit: I'd probably be more tactful if the O.P. had done the work, but the original post said that the work was done by "the tilers." Next time, hire tilers who know what they're doing.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

i got a job im on where HO wants to use this stuff but the stuff im using is starglass. Is it the different brand or just re branded and if not which one should i go with. The samples of the star glass look very impressive and bling. I spec'd QL2 for the rest of the rooms so would like to stick to urethane if can. Just dont want the above issues.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

BCConstruction said:


> i got a job im on where HO wants to use this stuff but the stuff im using is starglass. Is it the different brand or just re branded and if not which one should i go with. The samples of the star glass look very impressive and bling. I spec'd QL2 for the rest of the rooms so would like to stick to urethane if can. Just dont want the above issues.


Dimension is a new name for the Star Glass/Star Quartz line. I've only done samples with it but a clean install with a proper thinset should turn out nicely. It's translucent so you will want nice, evenly raked joints.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

*Hold your horses!!!*

Guys, before you start knocking the tilers, please do understand that we inherited this job. I didn't get into the whole story because it wasn't relevant. 

So the sloppy framing (we redid one wall that was terrible but HO is on budget so couldn't redo the whole thing) is what caused the issues with the tiles not lining up and being crooked. The walls were actually pretty bad (sheetrock and WB were already in when we got there). 

Remember: the post was and is about the consistency of the grout color. Not whether or not the grout was on the tile or over the grout joint or whatever.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Adiaphoria said:


> Guys, before you start knocking the tilers, please do understand that we inherited this job. I didn't get into the whole story because it wasn't relevant.
> 
> So the sloppy framing (we redid one wall that was terrible but HO is on budget so couldn't redo the whole thing) is what caused the issues with the tiles not lining up and being crooked. The walls were actually pretty bad (sheetrock and WB were already in when we got there).
> 
> Remember: the post was and is about the consistency of the grout color. Not whether or not the grout was on the tile or over the grout joint or whatever.


You cannot separate one from the other.

If you are a tile setter, you deal with walls that aren't perfect. That should not effect your spacing or abilities to lay tile more precisely than these are laid. Problem is everyone thinks that they can lay tile. You just start at one end and tile to the other.

As for the sloppy grout work, again, it is an indicator that there could be a lack of knowledge or care. Knowing how to install it properly will reduce the amount of hazing. Over watering before to prep the tile or when wiping can produce varied results. It's not a product you just pick up off the shelf and start spreading.

We are only trying to help. I understand the need to defend your guys or the guys you work with. But so far there hasn't been any real personal attacks or rabbit trails. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

I asked the question to get help, and it is EXTREMELY helpful to read a message like yours TNT Services because obviously I am not a tile setter and I do not have enough knowledge to understand what could have gone wrong here. 

That is why, acting upon your advice, I got a professional camera and posted these pics. Because this is a very hyped up grout and I want to know what we should do in the future and also on who we should lay the blame not because we want to point the finger but because someone has to pay for mistakes and it shouldn't be the HO if it is a subs fault and we can't have "mistakes" like these happening because we lose our credibility. 

I also noticed the misaligned spacing and poorly filled grout joints when I was taking the pics. So can you clarify what I should say to the tile setter and his team and what you think happened here? Thank you!


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Adiaphoria said:


> ....
> I also noticed the misaligned spacing and poorly filled grout joints when I was taking the pics. So can you clarify what I should say to the tile setter and his team and what you think happened here? Thank you!


Tell them you're trying to build a business based on quality, and that they'll have to improve their work if they want to be part of your business. If they don't know what you're talking about, then you need to find someone else.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Adiaphoria said:


> I asked the question to get help, and it is EXTREMELY helpful to read a message like yours TNT Services because obviously I am not a tile setter and I do not have enough knowledge to understand what could have gone wrong here.
> 
> That is why, acting upon your advice, I got a professional camera and posted these pics. Because this is a very hyped up grout and I want to know what we should do in the future and also on who we should lay the blame not because we want to point the finger but because someone has to pay for mistakes and it shouldn't be the HO if it is a subs fault and we can't have "mistakes" like these happening because we lose our credibility.
> 
> I also noticed the misaligned spacing and poorly filled grout joints when I was taking the pics. So can you clarify what I should say to the tile setter and his team and what you think happened here? Thank you!


Determining the one responsible is pointing the finger. It's pointing the finger and saying you caused this pay up sucka.

Products fail, people make mistakes. Handling those failures and mistakes is how you keep your credibility. You can't be afraid of them. If you are you will look like you don't know what you are doing. (This is general advice, not just to you.)

My advice is to be straight forward, but not rude. Just walk through the projects and point out your concerns. Have him explain each and everyone to you and how they can be corrected (as long as they are in need of correcting). If they are not urgent issues, let them know that this quality of work is not acceptable and will not be acceptable in the future.

If there is anything explanation that isn't satisfactory let him know. Most of us can smell BS a mile away and even though you are not an expert in this area, if it's not jiving it's probably not jiving.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> ....
> My advice is to be straight forward, but not rude. Just walk through the projects and point out your concerns. Have him explain each and everyone to you and how they can be corrected (as long as they are in need of correcting). If they are not urgent issues, let them know that this quality of work is not acceptable and will not be acceptable in the future.
> .....


Good advice. You have to make them uncomfortable, in proportion to the amount they need to change.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Why would someone choose Dimensions grout with a glazed porcelain tile?

Isn't the whole point to add depth to glass or other translucent tiles?

On tile like that it just telegraphs the **** that's under neath it; plus because it allows some light to pass through it any variance in grout joint size effects the shade of the grout.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

Was advised by the HO that the tile store pushed the product on her and she didn't know any better...if what you are saying is true, there should be a disclaimer on the bucket that Bostik sells...otherwise that's pretty awful to have this mess as a result of ignorance and pushy sales tactics. 

In your collective experience does the regular urethane grout from Bostik that is supposed to be white look white?


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Adiaphoria said:


> Was advised by the HO that the tile store pushed the product on her and she didn't know any better...if what you are saying is true, there should be a disclaimer on the bucket that Bostik sells...otherwise that's pretty awful to have this mess as a result of ignorance and pushy sales tactics.
> 
> In your collective experience does the regular urethane grout from Bostik that is supposed to be white look white?


I don't think that position will hold water. Dimensions isn't designed exclusively for translucent tile. It can look really sharp with a porcelain tile as well.

After seeing that tile install my instinct would be to suspect the grout application as the problem before I'd suspect the product to be defective. 

QL2 has a few whites.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

l agree with Ethan. It wasn't designed exclusively for glass tile. It looks great with a number of products.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Adiaphoria said:


> Was advised by the HO that the tile store pushed the product on her and she didn't know any better...if what you are saying is true, there should be a disclaimer on the bucket that Bostik sells...otherwise that's pretty awful to have this mess as a result of ignorance and pushy sales tactics.
> 
> In your collective experience does the regular urethane grout from Bostik that is supposed to be white look white?


No, this is why you listen to a professional not a salesman.


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## Adiaphoria (Nov 5, 2014)

We never used urethane before...the HO was adamant that's what she wanted and the tiler said he knew how to do it..of course it is our responsibility to assure that clients are happy but within reason. Reading what Inner10 said about the fact that the grout would reflect the inside (since there is no pigment in the grout itself) makes a lot of sense.


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