# How Many "Old School" Carpenters Do We Have On CT?



## CARPENTERDON (Jun 30, 2005)

How many of the carpenters on CT use hand tools for work? Tools like:

Hand saw(s)

Hand plane(s) (jack, low-angle, router, dado, shoulder, etc.)

Hand drill (brace & bit)

Hammer(s) (for framing, trim, shingling, etc.)

Chisels (wood & cold)

Files/Rasps

Any others not listed


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

It depends on the job- if I'm doing SIPs panels, barely at all. A hammer and a prybar is about it. 
If I'm doing trim, log work, or some of the detail patching I've done in the past, I use hand tools quite a bit- chisels, gouges, planes, carving tools, hand saws, draw knives, Aze, carving hatchet, log scribes, ect.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm not sure that simply using hand tools defines an 'old school' carpenter.
I own and use many hand tools along with my electric tools. 
A better question might be whether the carpenters you are looking for can layout and cut a bastard hip roof by hand?
In my experience, roof cutting is becoming a lost art. The 'newbie' carpenters simply order the trusses and stand them.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

How old do you have to be...to be considered old carpenter?


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

greg24k said:


> How old do you have to be...to be considered old carpenter?


You know what they say, if you have to ask.....


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Old school values and new school tools is a combo that works for me.


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## FRISCODEKOY (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm a younger fine finish carpenter and definately like old school methods better. I prefer the yankee way over the rest. i Love my hand tools!!!!!!I do use power tools for ease of labor intensity, but would rather do everthing buy hand if someone wanted to pay for something compleetly power tool free. Not the way of the world anymore. The old skool way will soon be obsoleet in the field and may become a dieing art, with all the new faster tools like, cope masters, power planers, chop saws, electric sanders, and soooooooo many more. Soon the carpenter will become an installer of premade crap that comes from china. No real skill will be requiered. If you know how to correctly use your hand tools teach someone what you know so we dont go the way of the Dodo, And so the phrase hand made doesn't end up hand assembled. A sharp handtool is an indcation of a sharp mind


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Hammer, chisel, file out of your list so I guess I'm half old school. Us gen x guys....what can you do?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I have a hammer and a nail punch, does that count.


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## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

That's an odd basis for a definition of "old school" - if a person works w/ wood (at all), they'll use hand tools throughout their day.
Sooooooo, everyone here is 'old school.'

Why would you use a hand drill? Ever? 
Do you have to run screws in w/ a screwdriver too?

There's a big difference between being proud of building something strong, sturdy and structurally beautiful (old school) and using antiquated tools that make you 30x slower than anyone else.

You use the best tools available for the job at hand. Whether they're plugged in or not...

Mac


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

I guess I don't understand the question....


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

Hand saw(s) rarely

Hand plane(s) (jack, low-angle, router, dado, shoulder, etc.) plane, every job

Hand drill (brace & bit) haven't owned one for 30 years

Hammer(s) (for framing, trim, shingling, etc.) every job

Chisels (wood & cold) every job

Files/Rasps for coping, fitting etc. yes

Any others not listed 

my stanley 8" T-bevel,
combination square. 
Tape! (25' fat max) 
nail set
clam clamp


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I have occasionally used the claw of my hammer to chop through a corner of osb, does that count?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yes, I think.


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## FRISCODEKOY (Apr 25, 2010)

not really the old school way now is a kind if art form. It's not practical in todays industy. There will always be basics like Hammers chisels nail sets etc. It's when you get into the real teadiouse fine adjustment mirror finished hand tools that can do the same job a machine can. Old School is more of a definition for presision handmade craftsmanship, with little power tool infuence. Human powered tools, and few electical dimetioning tools are the exeption. Think late 1700's to to late 1930's and all the wierd homemade tools people had to make to get the job done. That's ol' skoo' man. Alll in alll it's a desire to make things without the modern advantages that we take for geanted each day. A basic philosophy I have is that you should be able to drive nails by hand before useing a nail gun. The same apply to any other time saving modern methods. IF you can't or don't have the skill to do the job without a fancy power tool YOU ARE NOT OLD SCHOOL, cut some half blind dove tails by hand and work like a yankee!


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Is spell check "old school"? How bout sarcasm?


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## FRISCODEKOY (Apr 25, 2010)

i'm a tradesman not an english professor


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## speed123 (Apr 11, 2010)

Hand saw(s) 90% of my cuts are by hand, this includes mitres,ripping boards,cross cutting etc, i have a 18v dewalt saw i use when a few sheets of ply need cutting

Hand plane(s) (jack, low-angle, router, dado, shoulder, etc.)70% by hand, use a power plane when hanging doors

Hand drill (brace & bit) dont own one

Hammer(s) (for framing, trim, shingling, etc.) i use a hammer everyday, but i have a 18v 16ga nailer for trim

Chisels (wood & cold) every day for hanging doors ripping out etc

Files/Rasps dont own any, i use a coping saw for coping

i still use hand screwdrivers also mainly on door furniture


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

My grandfather & Uncle where my mentors, they have taught me many skills whether it be work ethics or with my hands 
One comment stands out from the others: “Carpenters now a day’s don’t have finesse”
Taking pride in your work and treating customers with respect seemed to be far and nil


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

FRISCODEKOY said:


> Is spell check "old school"? How bout sarcasm?


You shouldn't make fun of someone just because English is not their first language. :jester::laughing:

To me Old School, means two things; first that you have been doing it a while, you know, spent some time in the Trades School of Hard Knocks. Some fresh fish, such as myself, going on about 5 years total, that tries to tell me they are "Old School"; sorry I'm gonna start laughing.

More importantly they have to have an attitude and aspiration about their work. To me it takes an Old Schooler to really deliver what I aspire to, old world craftsmanship. I think folks realize it when they see and feel it and when they see the craftsman doing it. It's efficiency but not strictly in the sense of production. It's tightness as a matter of course. It's wide open in form, it can be whatever can be imagined and there is a solid base of experience and knowledge to draw from.

Most importantly it just feels and looks right, it succeeds where lesser work fails, either in form or function.

But hey what do I know? I am just an aspirant.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> Old school values and new school tools is a combo that works for me.





BuiltByMAC said:


> That's an odd basis for a definition of "old school" - if a person works w/ wood (at all), they'll use hand tools throughout their day.
> Sooooooo, everyone here is 'old school.'
> 
> Why would you use a hand drill? Ever?
> ...


Gus & Mac have said it pretty well. I do believe true craftsman, in all the trades, are a dying breed.


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## Bad Boy Biker (Dec 12, 2009)

I only use hand tools. The only tool I have that uses batteries is my flashlight.

Yes, I use my brace and bits. Can't beat them for their work.

My "Yankee" screwdrivers are my favorite tools. I have at least a dozen. Never strip out a screw because I could not feel it.

Hand saws, about 18 different ones depending on the job and 2 hand mitre-boxes.

Find the best tools at the antique stores. Bought a long plane at an antique store. The guy at the counter said "That will look great over the fireplace" I said it was going into my truck. he said "That will ruin it". "WHAT?"

As for taking longer.......................
We had a job at a 50's ranch home remodel. Hotshot with all his fancy battery operated do-dads wanted to race. Ok, here was the deal...hang 13 doors in the newly remodeled home. Assemble the jamb, mortise the hinges, hang the door, drill the knob, mortise the latch bolt, mortise the strike plate, install the knob, latch, and strike plate. End of the day score, I had 7 of the 13 doors finished and my HAND tools back in the truck before the hotshot had finished his 6th door. 

Faster is not always better.

Oh, by the way, we still have "roof topping parties" when the home gets to that point. Sometimes hard to find the right tree for the roof depending on the season.

Old school, yep, and proud of it.


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## CARPENTERDON (Jun 30, 2005)

> Bad Boy Biker wrote: *"I only use hand tools. The only tool I have that uses batteries is my flashlight.
> 
> Yes, I use my brace and bits. Can't beat them for their work.
> 
> ...


Bad Boy Biker, BIG :thumbup: :thumbsup: :thumbup: :thumbsup:! I, too, LOVE my hand tools and use them on a regular basis.

I found a thickness/jointer hand plane at a local re-sale tool shop for $95. Made the guy an offer of $80 and he took it. I love my new plane and have used it on the last 3 kitchen cabinet jobs I did.

I also use my brace and bit to bore for locksets and my router plane for hinge mortises. With a sharp iron and a jig I made, takes no time at all!

I have a set of 1940's Stanley 'wooden' handled screw drivers and a Yankee screw driver that I use for everything. I get a lot of scoffs at them, and a lot of _"where'd you get those antiques?"_ I just snicker as I keep turning those screws in.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Started out oldschool but I have been remodeling over the years.


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## lion-crest (Apr 10, 2010)

I use hand tools all the time well doing finishing work mostly planes, well doing timber framing a slick comes in very handy to finish of a joint. There’s nothing better than japans pull saws for those hard to reach places then doing fine work on old places. Hand tools have their place and power tools are just as useful when needed and a lot more time efficient. A carpenter should be as proficient with his hand tools as he is with power tools , when I went to trade school are first year was just with Hand tool and if you couldn’t shave your arm hair with you chisel then you didn’t pass and for god sakes what man would call himself a carpenter if he couldn’t frame a roof, a hack that’s all I have to say. Any Joe blow can cut a piece of wood knowing the math and the history of home building is what makes a real carpenter. SO let’s all start building better house.


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## basswood (Oct 31, 2008)

Does anyone think excavation should still be done with hand shovels? IDTS

I do plenty of old world craftsmanship and use hand tools when they are the best tool for the job. I also have a sort of Zen relationship with my power tools and think of them as extensions of my hands... really I think that way. They do my bidding as precisely as hand tools.

I did hand carve 88 lamb's tongue chamfers on each of these brackets... it took all day working with just a hammer and chisel. These are thick laminated oak timbers, if you think I should have cut those curves out with a hand saw instead of my band saw... I say put down your tool belt and back away from the jobsite.

Cheers,

Bass


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I have a hammer and a nail punch, does that count.


is your hammer green?


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

*I'm a hack, I only fly in planes*



CARPENTERDON said:


> How many of the carpenters on CT use hand tools for work? Tools like:
> 
> Hand saw(s)
> 
> ...


I use all of the above, except the hand drill. But more often I'll use my planer/joiner, router, miter saw, circular saw, saws all. Every corner on trim I use my miter saw, but only about half I use my coping saw. 

Times are different today. Everything is rush, rush. And bigger, faster everything. Younger carps, like myself, never took the time to fully appreciate and master hand tools (true a board with just a plane). Most, I, aren't as skilled as the real "old-timers." The great thing about technology is you don't need to be as skilled. yes, it takes skill to use power tools, but a totally different level. I'd love to take the time to refine my hand tool skills, but between working 6-7 days, kids, wife todo. 

So for now, I'll do what works for me. It's not what tools you use, it's your work ethic and integrity that makes you a true carpenter. 
But what do I know. I'm just a hack because I never framed a roof before. I don't build houses. :shutup:


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## lion-crest (Apr 10, 2010)

Craftsman Jay said:


> I use all of the above, except the hand drill. But more often I'll use my planer/joiner, router, miter saw, circular saw, saws all. Every corner on trim I use my miter saw, but only about half I use my coping saw.
> 
> Times are different today. Everything is rush, rush. And bigger, faster everything. Younger carps, like myself, never took the time to fully appreciate and master hand tools (true a board with just a plane). Most, I, aren't as skilled as the real "old-timers." The great thing about technology is you don't need to be as skilled. yes, it takes skill to use power tools, but a totally different level. I'd love to take the time to refine my hand tool skills, but between working 6-7 days, kids, wife todo.
> 
> ...


 

Well then you Should call youself a woodworker ,w_oodworkers and mill rights do moldings, trim and build furniture ,__Carpenters build buildings _
_A pipe fitter doesn’t call himself a plumber_
_Lines man doesn’t call himself an electrician _
_We all might do similar job’s but there are some differentness _
_and in my eyes if someone call's himself a carpenter _
_ And can’t tell me the hypotenuse of 12” by 12” then his not a Carpenter _
_And we are all in the Rat race So keep having fun with wood._


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

I learned from an "ol' skool" german man and also a couple of young TX brothers. They did things old school. 

I took what they taught me and carried forward implementing any newer technique or technology that warranted use.

To that end, I push quite a bit of tech on the front end of a project - like Lone Framer - it's way more cost effective to pre-plan the attack in your jammies with a cup of coffee, rather than in the field.

The picture has:

iMac running WIN XP, AutoCAD, HP50g, CM Pro 4065 v3.1, CM 5 (in the bags), iPhone BuildCalc

I enjoy precision almost to a disorder.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

OMG :w00t: I'm still using a drafting table.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

*Off-topic, sorry had to*

17 fftopic:

Oh, hand tools. I will use a framing gun to frame walls, but use my hammer to nail siding. I also use my hammer to nail hurricane brackets to engineered roof trusses, but a nail gun to secure I-joists to the top-plates. :sleep1:


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## gdwoodbutcher (May 4, 2010)

*Old School?*

I use or have used most all of the tools you asked about. I love chiseling a good wood door for butts, however, many HOME CENTER doors have such a lousy core, that once you get past the veneer, the grain runs in 4 directions at once, making it tough to pare down to a nice flat surface. Same complaint for planing door edges, wood is easier to work w/ power planer when it is crap, but I still try hand planes before resorting to power. I can't remember last using my Stanley mitre box. Power saws can take a hair off of a slightly too long piece, Back saw just skates off end, mutating, rather than fixing. Air nailers work great on small pieces that you would have to pre-drill if hand nailing, and counter sink all in one motion. I enjoy using shark toothed hand saws compared to traditional toothed, and often use them instead of sawzall on ridge excess cuts, they don't need a cord, and are safer at long reach. When I cut sheathing, on a pair of horses, I can measure faster than a guy using a tape and chaulk line by using my stick ruler ( most guy's ask me what museum I found it at, but then ask how much it cost's when they see it work ) I love learning new way's, but appreciate having learned that faster does'nt always mean better. P.S. Cordless drill drivers beat the tar out of screw drivers, but I still use my yankee for installing doorknobs


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

There's a time and a place to use old-school tools, just not every time and every place. On the first day of engineering school, my professor informed us that he wasn't teaching us to be engineers, but to be problem solvers. To that end, you "use all the tools in your toolbox to solve the problem". That philosophy has paid major dividends. If i'm good enough to match (and sometimes exceed) the quality of the "old school" tools or techniques with my fancy cordless flux-capacitor-enabled supertools in the same amount of time or less, then I really don't care what judgement Norm would pass down upon me from the New Yankee Workshop. Just because I can cut a dovetail joint by hand doesn't mean I will.


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

BTW, I do appreciate old-school craftsmanship; Took a tour of the Biltmore House in Asheville, NC, last fall and to see that level of craftsmanship, all done by hand, was absolutely amazing!


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## Birch (Jul 20, 2009)

*"The Best"*

I remember an “Old School” jobsite philosophy that ‘Hans’ taught me, “The Best tool they make is barely good enough.” That’s why I frequent this site and try other “New School” stuff. To keep up and learn about “The Best”! 

But it’s hard to match the way some of those old tools are built. I still use my old PC 315 saws because I like the drop-foot base w/ trunnion style bevel adjustment, that, and the box of parts for them I keep on hand.


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## RMcBride (Dec 21, 2009)

I work with mostly older guys - 70s and 80s and more than one of them has commented on it when I pull out a plumb bob instead of a level.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

How many Carpenters today can drive a nail with a hammer? If the compressor goes down or the generator is out of gas, production stops
How many Carpenters today can make their own door jambs and hang a door from scratch? Many today know nothing but pre-hung
How many Carpenters today can fiqure and cut stairs? They sell precut stringers. What not long enough? Scum plate 2 or 3 togather, I'm not kidding either, I've seen it!! I'd feel safer on Grandma's old wood step ladder though
How many Carpenters today can fiqure a common much less a hip useing a framing square. Trusses pretty much killed that
The whole trade has become what I call a new generation of Home Depot Cordless Screwgun Contractors
Framing with 3" Drywall screws? Don't even get me started


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## nailit69 (Sep 8, 2010)

knucklehead said:


> I have a rafter book that is about 25 years old.
> 
> Full Length Roof Framer by A.J.Reichers


 
Excellent book, I worked for an old timer and he told me one day that i'd never be a real carpenter until I could cut a roof from the ground off of the plans. A wealth of knowledge in that book. I can stilll figure out all my math with a TI-25X faster than I can with the book though.

Unbelievably, I went to an interview about a year ago and the first question the guy asked me was how I cut a roof... with math I said. He said I was the first guy in 20 years that ever "had the right answer".

I too would suggest that book for any serious carpenter that doesn't already have the knowledge/skills to hand cut a roof, handy for more than just roofs too.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

I guess I am old school talent that uses modern methods and tecnology.:thumbup:


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## hailey (Oct 21, 2008)

Warren said:


> I have occasionally used the claw of my hammer to chop through a corner of osb, does that count?


Did we work together on an Amish crew a long time ago???hahaha
that blew my mind the first time I saw it ...I do remember the customer's eyes were bigger than mine though...SO PROFESSIONAL!!


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