# Wrap-around shower doors



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Anyone aware of such a thing, - - right now the customer has a tub with an L-shaped shower curtain rod, - - because there's no end-wall at the foot of the tub, - - and no room to build one because the toilet is located there and only has the 30" minimum width now, - - they want shower doors installed to get rid of that ugly curtain set-up, - - but like I say, - - there's no wall to recieve one end of the doors.

The customer says they're OK if I build a wall right on top of the end of the tub, - - but I'm not about to do that.

It's already (obviously) a small bathroom, - - and from a design-standpoint a standard 'wall' would close it in even more.

But I was thinkin', - - if there's no such thing as a 'wrap-around' shower door set (which I know I've never heard of), - - I might be able to 'finagle' buying two sets of doors, - - and make somethin' work out of the two sets of framework, - - and 3 of the 4 doors. Only thing is, - - I'm sure I would have to get the 'end-panel' glass door re-cut, - - because I would think it would be about 3" or 4" too wide, - - because they're made to overlap each other (and the existing tilework is a mud job), - - meaning I've got about a 28" space to work a glass door (and the metal frame) in.

I could actually just get a glass shop to make a glass door, no problem, - - but I'm figurin' their going to want fancy designer doors, - - and it would obviously be nicer if the 'fixed-end-panel' matched the set.

Then again, - - I guess I could just 'contrast' the glass.

Anyone got any ideas on this small 'design challenge'? Or maybe someone's familiar with a company that makes such an animal?

Hmmm, - - glass block wall as a second choice, maybe?, - - but what about the weight of it?

Oh, - - sorry, - - it's your turn!!


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## Bjd (Dec 19, 2003)

A few Ideas;

I have used glass block a few times, and it does work out, as you can get them 2" deep.

Another thing is to get 1 glass panel for the end, however you have to have the glass company drill the holes for the door supports, and have a frame made for it as well.

Sterling/Kolher makes a door for this design, and again its a little expensive, but if you figure in the cost of the other designs you may find this area a little cheaper.

BJD


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

My vote would be a custom glass inclosure just like a high end shower. There should be no problem matching design to clients expectations as long as they have the budget, and we all know that all your clients have the budget.


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## bergenbldr (Apr 23, 2005)

Tom, does this tub itself wrap around ie. only two flat sides to wall? Is this a corner tub ,very common in 20s and 30s baths, don't see it in newer baths,custom glass would probally be best. Trying to set glass blocks on top of tub would be difficult and you would need a metal channel to attach door to.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Bjd said:


> A few Ideas;
> 
> I have used glass block a few times, and it does work out, as you can get them 2" deep.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Bjd, - - I'll try to look that Sterling/Kohler up, - - sounds like the best option.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> My vote would be a custom glass inclosure just like a high end shower. There should be no problem matching design to clients expectations as long as they have the budget, and we all know that all your clients have the budget.


It's not too 'high-end' of a bathroom (obviously) as it is. And if Sterling/Kohler makes something for this application, - - that would be best for me, - - because I'm really tryin' to squeeze this job in as it is, - - and as far as the budget, - - it's not really an issue, - - I told them I'll get back to them with a price, - - they said just do it and bill 'em.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

bergenbldr said:


> Tom, does this tub itself wrap around ie. only two flat sides to wall? Is this a corner tub ,very common in 20s and 30s baths, don't see it in newer baths,custom glass would probally be best. Trying to set glass blocks on top of tub would be difficult and you would need a metal channel to attach door to.


Yes, Berg, - - it's a 'wrap-around' tub, - - only two flat sides to walls, - - the tub itself has one finished (exposed) side, - - and one finished (exposed) end. And you're probably right about being 20's or 30's, - - as the house is about 1890. I'm gonna check out the Sterling/Kohler first, - - but if need be, - - I'll go the custom route, - - thanks.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Tom R said:


> It's not too 'high-end' of a bathroom (obviously) as it is. And if Sterling/Kohler makes something for this application, - - that would be best for me, - - because I'm really tryin' to squeeze this job in as it is, - - and as far as the budget, - - it's not really an issue, - - I told them I'll get back to them with a price, - - they said just do it and bill 'em.


Have you considered OSB?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Seriously...

See this is where I don't get you at all.

If budget is not much of a concern why in the hell would you be mucking about with this thing in the first place?

I would call in my 1st rate custom glass company and tell them what I want, have them measure and template, fabricate and install this thing. 

Then I would mark it up by 40% and submit the bill to the customer. 

Everybody is super happy and in the mean time you are making even more money because you are working on another project at the same time the glass company is doing this for you and only doing supervision to make sure it comes out exactly as planned, or you are working on other facets of this project and getting done ahead of schedule and are adding other billiable days to this month.

Not subbing this out to a glass company makes even less sense if you trully are being forced to squeeze this into your schedule in the first place.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Some good points, Mike, - - but as you say, - - we do things very differently, - - my view is that the glass company will charge 2 1/2 to 3 times as much as the 'pre-made' package, - - and that's just to make them, - - not to install, - - then if I have them install them, - - any mistakes guess who's gettin' the phone call?, - - I can get the package cheaper, - - and get paid good for a 'one-time' installation, - - the customer has a phone book, you know, - - if they wanted to put their faith in a glass company, - - they would just make the call, - - the reason they called me to begin with is they were told to call me if they want to get it done right. I don't know how it is where you live, - - but around here horror stories are an everyday occurrence, - - when folks hear of someone that actually does the job right, they just latch on.

As far as the time factor, - - though it's true I don't even know how I can fit this job in (they want some additional work done, also), - - I'll find a 'way', - - because customers that let me 'name-that-tune' get high ratings on the 'seniority-list', - - then they become 'regular' customers, - - and on and on goes the weeding process.

P.S. I had a customer about 4 years ago wanted 'custom shower doors' from one of the local glass companies, - - I told him just call them direct, - - I don't need to have anything to do with it. The first thing they did when they showed up, - - 4 1/2 weeks later, - - was drop one of the doors, - - smashed glass all over the new bathroom, - - and broke one of the new ceramic tiles. Customer made them replace the tile, - - he should have let his 6-year-old grandson give it a try, - - in fact it looked like that's what he did, - - they came back 5 days later with another door, - - gave him the 'installation-from-hell', - - framework out-of-plumb, - - sloppy caulk, - - some clear, some white, - - and oh yeah, - - he didn't notice 'til they were paid and gone, - - they also 'cracked' a wall tile where they installed the frame. When the customer complained about them to me, - - I told him "that's why I had you call them direct, - - I don't 'sub', and that's why".


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Tom R said:


> - we do things very differently, - - my view is that the glass company will charge 2 1/2 to 3 times as much as the 'pre-made' package, - - and that's just to make them, - - not to install, - -.


Yes, we certainly do, because if I am continually hearing from you that budget is not a concern therefore I could careless if it is 2 1/2 to 3 times as much as the pre made package. Either budget is a factor or it isn't, it sounds like it actually is. In addition pre-made and a custom glass enclosure will have little similarity when it comes to quality. Premade and custom have little in common when it comes to end results. Custom will also open up an entire menu of options for your customer compared to a premade package. 




Tom R said:


> then if I have them install them, - - any mistakes guess who's gettin' the phone call?-.


That's the nature of the business we are in, I don't see that as relevant now or ever, especially if you want to have an actual business instead of just a job. We have to deal with this on a daily basis unless you are just a handyman doing everything yourself. It's impossible for me to perform to my financial expectations and my customers expectations without involving other members of my "team". You should be able to manage the risk by using a top quality company, since budget is not a consideration there should be nothing stopping you from using the best. 




Tom R said:


> - - I can get the package cheaper, - - and get paid good for a 'one-time' installation,


If you are as busy as you say you are, that's a short sighted plan. It is obviously possible to make more money by subbing a project that is perfectly geared for a specialty sub to perform which this project certainly is, and at the same time doing other work at the same time. Doing so should result in an additional 40% profit.



Tom R said:


> the customer has a phone book, you know, - - if they wanted to put their faith in a glass company, - - they would just make the call, - - the reason they called me to begin with is they were told to call me if they want to get it done right.


The customer expecting it done right and the customer expecting your hands to personally touch every screw and drop of silicone have absolutely nothing to do with each other - that's in your head, not your customers. The customers is highering you to complete the project correctly, how that happens is up to you, no customer I have ever ran into cared whether you actually drill every hole or have an employee or a sub do it, nor did they even realize that they could or should care about something like that, customer simply aren't that concerned or knowledgeable things like that. Once again, that's in your head not theirs. All they want is the project completed correctly, how you do it is up to you, not them.




Tom R said:


> I don't know how it is where you live, - - but around here horror stories are an everyday occurrence, - - when folks hear of someone that actually does the job right, they just latch on.


Yes, that is the same all over the country. Cream always rises to the top and the cream gets to charge the highest rates.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Whew!!

That was some long post.

I'll just explain one of those many points you made, - - then just politely ask you to understand that different people have different philosophies, - - some of us MAY even feel as strong about our own opinions as you feel about yours, - - the only difference being, - - some of us would prefer just to 'voice' our opinions/philosophies, - - not 'push' them onto others.

Now the final word on the customer's budget (my final word, at least), - - it's very simple, - - I'm not saying the people 'want' to spend exorbitant amounts of money, - - I'm saying they're willing to put their trust in me and pay a price for the 'delivery' of a good product/job, - - my choices, my opinions, my design, my work, my fee. They simply put the ball completely in my court. Want to call it a JOB??, - - I've got no problem with that, - - THIS is what I do. AND I enjoy it. WHICH PART DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND??

And yes, - - I'm sure I could bring in a 'team' and make even more money, - - but then I would 'become' the very same as the very people they are sick of, - - and called me in to replace.

Money, money, money, - - that's all you ever talk about. 

Read my lips, - - I DON'T WANT SUBS, - - I DON'T WANT HEADACHES.

YOU keep getting MY philosophy confused with YOUR philosophy.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> The customer expecting it done right and the customer expecting your hands to personally touch every screw and drop of silicone have absolutely nothing to do with each other - that's in your head, not your customers. The customers is highering you to complete the project correctly, how that happens is up to you, no customer I have ever ran into cared whether you actually drill every hole or have an employee or a sub do it, nor did they even realize that they could or should care about something like that, customer simply aren't that concerned or knowledgeable things like that. Once again, that's in your head not theirs. All they want is the project completed correctly, how you do it is up to you, not them.



This is simply not true, Mike, - - and this is where we differ, - - my customers are very 'informed', - - they are plumbers, electricians, inspectors, private inspectors, architects, and oft-times people that are too picky for practically anyone to want to work for, - - but that I don't mind, - - in fact they are some of my best customers, - - and I enjoy working for them, - - cuz I really don't care how picky they are, - - haven't really met one yet that was pickier than me. That's why we have a good working relationship. If someone 'doesn't care' who does the work, - - the work will usually show that. Admittedly, - - they'll get it cheaper than what I would charge. But then, - - that's not the kind of customer I desire.

And here's my definition of a busy schedule, - - a little over 1 year of work backed up, - - but 90% of it is flexible, - - I can do it whenever I want, - - when I'm ready,- - they're ready, - - of course that will probably take more like 2 years or more to catch up with, - - because others are always coming in. Do I turn down work??, - - yes, plenty, - - picky, picky, - - remember??


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> It's impossible for me to perform to my financial expectations and my customers expectations without involving other members of my "team".



Maybe you need to 're-stimulate the stimulae' on your financial expectations, - - and having to 'depend' on others to meet them.

You see, - - I'm not having any of these problems.

By the way, - - I just spent about $2500 cash in tools/equipment this week (MK-101 Tile Saw, and 33" self-propelled walk-behind mower), - - nothin' to it, - - by the way, - - could you politely explain again to me why I need this 'TEAM'???


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Tom R said:


> could you politely explain again to me why I need this 'TEAM'???


"Team" - the very basic - state licensed electricians and plumbers. The confusion probably stems from the problem of always red necking it by playing the homeowner permit game. 

If you don't understand how the bottom line is enhanced by subbing out key parts of a remodel instead of being a handyman then you certainly wouldn't understand how beneficial it is to further have on your "team" tilers, drywallers, painters, glass installers, faux painters, plasters, carpet layers, framers, laborers ect... 

... but then again as I recall aren't you the dinosaur that thinks cordless tools are useless? LOL

There are a lot of inconsistencies to your posts, a lot of what you say doesn't add up when it is taken over time, but I'm sure over time it will all become clear.

By the way I have met plent of guys who flash big bank rolls who live in rented apartments and couldn't get a bank to loan them 50 cents if they left them a dollar as collateral.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Sorry guys, I believe that you have left the informational. Feel free to continue your bickering on PM.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

You're right, Teetor, - - my apologies, - - anyway, - - thanks to all who answered. :Thumbs:


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Just for everybody's info, - - in case you ever run into this, - - and want to go this route, - - Bjd's info was correct, - - Sterling will actually make it to size, - - about $800 through Home Depot, - - they just call it 'bypass tub/shower doors with a return panel'. I think this method will work best for myself and the customer for this situation. It'll take like 5-6 weeks to come in, - - but that works fine for me. Thanks again, Bjd, - - you saved me a lot of time.


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## Bjd (Dec 19, 2003)

No problem, ran into the same thing at one point.

bjd


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Huh? 5-6 weeks? Is all this turning out to be is a L shaped door system with a glass panel on the short L side and a by-pass door on the long L side? Wow, I was thinking this was way more complicated than that. Around here I wouldn't even need a custom glass company for that, I have at least 3 local companies that produce shower/bath surrounds to size, they take 7-10 business days to produce something like that and they even install it for you. I am having one done next month for a clients bathroom remodel. Once I found out they would measure, fabricate and install I was like - "Dude, when can you show up?" 

Tom, don't you have any companies like that around you?


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