# Would you stick build using screws?



## GooseCA (Aug 17, 2007)

Well the bid requests will be going out soon. The subfloor will be screwed instead of nailed to prevent squeaks and make it more stable. Would it make sense to also use screws to frame the walls? Is this a practice that is done? 

On a side note the house is basically the following:

weberdesigngroup.com/plans-view.php?ID=24

Except the plans are being converted to 2x6 instead of CMU for the 1st floor.

Some of the things being installed is a Warmboard Subfloor, Dupont Housewrap, Whole-House Vacuum and DIY Control4 Home Automation. Anything else that should be considered or tips to make the house more comfortable? This is a house that I will live in and won't be for sale anytime soon. So quality is the utmost importance. 

Noticed that a housewrap isn't used much in Northern California but with the amount of windows and cost it surely makes sense to put it in.

Still trying to decide on a peel and stick roof, anyone have any experience with it? 

Lastly with everything being purchased wholesale and tile / flooring installed at a highly reduced cost (family) do you think I could get away with $150 per sq ft? This dosn't include some of the moulding which I can install later.

Thanks everyone!


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## GreenW00D (Aug 2, 2007)

:blink:


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Sounds like a home owner .


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

There's no way a "custom home builder" wouldn't know the answers to those questions...

Framing a new house with screws?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 

Yes, I think it's a great idea... And while you're at it---don't forget the platinum hurricane clips...and be sure you provide the framers a board stretcher and a toe nailer---they'll really gouge you on the rental if you don't.

And if it's your own house--splurge for the baby seal insulation, too... It'll make your house oh so warm & cuddly...(be careful, there are a lot of knock-offs out there that aren't "true" baby seal.)

For your "peel & stick" roof, I'd use a place and press vinyl tile---really holds up well to the water...


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## GreenW00D (Aug 2, 2007)

DA ID-10-T strictly prohibits baby seal insulation


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I don't care for those peal and stick roofs.

We always try to upsell the homeowner to an iron on roof.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Dammit!*
*I say build everything with screws!*
*I love it when I have to pull out a stud and replace it...I pull out the cordless with a few 2-1/2" decking screws and get "the evil eye".*
*Seriously...I'd like to know the answer...all I "think" I know is that they're too brittle for structural purposes..I think.*


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Not sure if you are serious or not, you seem like you really are. If so there are 2 problems with screws in this scenario.

#1 Shear strength is low
#2 Labor is high


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

If you do manage to find some unfortunate fool to attempt to _'screw your frame up':w00t: _I'll bet he runs like hell on the first day.

And for your last question concerning 150 a SF ......please read the first statement carefully.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Not sure if you are serious or not, you seem like you really are. If so there are 2 problems with screws in this scenario.
> 
> #1 Shear strength is low
> #2 Labor is high


 
*Like I said, my impression was no, but wanted the "official" word.*
*As I'm sure you know, we use 'em all the time for blocking.*
*Most plumbers don't even carry nails, though on new construct or remodels they're everywhere, I'm not about to try holding a 14-1/2" 2x4 with one hand while I try to nail the ends into a stud.*


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Like I said, my impression was no, but wanted the "official" word.*
> *As I'm sure you know, we use 'em all the time for blocking.*
> *Most plumbers don't even carry nails, though on new construct or remodels they're everywhere, I'm not about to try holding a 14-1/2" 2x4 with one hand while I try to nail the ends into a stud.*


Seen HVAC guys with small compressors and nail guns just for putting in blocking... You could look into a passlode for putting blocks in. Or a CO2 tank and a nailgun.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

GooseCA said:


> Well the bid requests will be going out soon. The subfloor will be screwed instead of nailed. Would it make sense to also use screws to frame the walls? So quality is the utmost importance.
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone!


I often use 3.5" screws in framing and always drill a pilot hole first. This puts the screw in exactly the right place and prevents splitting.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

RobertCDF said:


> Seen HVAC guys with small compressors and nail guns just for putting in blocking... You could look into a passlode for putting blocks in. Or a CO2 tank and a nailgun.


*Actually, now that you mention it, I did work for a plumbing co that used a pasload.*
*I'm not about to buy one though..blocking for a shower valve or a pedastil isn't exactly load bearing, for studs I'd just as soon hammer by hand.*
*The gun would mainly gather dust for the infrequency of use, I have enough bulk looming in storage...trucks full enough.*


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## JackiTrades (Dec 2, 2006)

*Framing what? Screws or nails*

:sad:
Um, a frame? Whole house? Make sure you hire a pro to do it and you can help him so you will learn.
You know, I am not sure of your question anymore. I am confused here. Will you look at your questions and see if you did not communicate it well. 

How much framing? Are you really considering using screws for a large frame job?

You sound like a newbie flipper.


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## GooseCA (Aug 17, 2007)

Sorry everyone I completely butchered asking the question. But I did enjoy reading the replies ;-). Not to worry I won't be picking up a tool to frame the house, hehehe. I was just looking for suggestions when it comes to putting up the walls and suggestions to look for. But I guess I was overthinking the whole process there. Let the professional do his job, right ;-). Have seen quality difference beetween a screwed subfloor versus a nailed subfloor. 

Hmm ok I better shutup now before I butcher things more :blink:


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Use a good adhesive on the subfloor and nails or screws become a moot subject.

You can do a home here for $150 a sq. ft. but you have to have a lot of good contacts for materials and really watch your labor. I recently did the research for insurance purposes and, here, bottom of the line will run you $168 a sq. ft. Average is $200.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

> Use a good adhesive on the subfloor and nails or screws become a moot subject.


Right on Teetor. Squeaks are caused mostly......mostly I say, by nails missing the member and running down the side of the joist. The glue does not adhere the ply to the joist, thus causing an up and down motion when you walk over it, thus squeaking. Glue is the most important part right there. Even if you glue, you need to make sure if it's a sunny day, get yer butt moving. Dry glue doesn't glue.

Screws do tighten things up a bit, but I think it's overrated.

Screwing a whole house frame together LOL! Erm.....no. Get some screw shanked nails if you are that concerned, but hire someone good, like Joe Carola (you're gonna have to start paying me soon Joe LOL) to put it up right and you won't hear squeaks and you will have a good frame built.

And 150/sf? good luck.


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## jiggyjack (Mar 29, 2007)

Me and my crew could screw your whole project for only $.95 per screw!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God I hope he falls for this I'm gonna retire......wait I meant to think that.


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## emersonhomes (Aug 18, 2007)

*Lol*

If your going to frame with srews or need to ask if you should then you need to get more exp. be - fore biulding anyones home.


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## GooseCA (Aug 17, 2007)

emersonhomes said:


> If your going to frame with srews or need to ask if you should then you need to get more exp. be - fore biulding anyones home.


I wasn't referring to framing the whole house with screws. Simply looking for tips and ways that things can be improved. I know framers that almost never use screws on the subfloor and others always prefer to use screws. 

Was simply looking for things that I can incorporate in my home. A friends house is currently in dry wall stage and we already incorporated a lot of features in with most GC's don't include or would charge a fortune. And none of these things are budget busters. 

We included warmboard subfloors, control4 automation, 2x6 framing (kiln dried) w/foam insulation. Voyager Water Heater, re-circulating system, whole house vacuum. Used plywood throughout instead of OSB. Heck in Sacramento I saw OSB on the roof of a 1.4 Million Home. And there are other things that I can't think of right now. We used Ditra throughout where needed , etc etc etc.

So taking all these things in account I might try the new paperless drywall. CFL lights and I dunno whatever comes up. Since there is no GC markup involved it gives some room to play. And I laugh when any GC says he makes 20%, which is a number they all seem to make, lol.

Thanks!


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

GooseCA said:


> So taking all these things in account I might try the new paperless drywall. CFL lights and I dunno whatever comes up.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

GooseCA said:


> 2x6 framing (kiln dried)


 I know building inspectors who would fail your framing inspection and make you tear down everything framed with KD. I have seen them do it. :laughing::laughing:


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## finehomes (Feb 4, 2007)

Goose,


You'll have to explain to us how you think that you got special lumber that was kiln dried that was so much better than what the rest of us use???? Oh yeah.....pretty much ever damn stick of lumber you pick up at the lumber yard is kiln dried. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what is wrong with using OSB on the roof of a million dollar home??? I'd use it on the roof of a ten million dollar home all day long. 

Is there anyone else here that thinks this "custom home builder" original poster is an idiot????


Sam


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## Forry (Feb 12, 2007)

Probably somewhat out of his league, but "idiot" might be a little harsh.... always good to rip someone apart I guess. Pretty green is how I'd put it. Very little experience actually working on projects, lots of time spent thinking. Gives a person a strange perspective. BTW I won't use osb if I can help it either... don't like some of the things I've seen ie swollen corners, higher deflection, nails pull through, etc. I also prefer to look into better products and methods... just 'cause everyones doing it doesn't mean its right!


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## emersonhomes (Aug 18, 2007)

*srews*

On the note of some poeple useing srews to hold down a sub floor I feel sorry for the contractors having thier guys do that. Its a total waste of time and money. The glue holds the sub floor down. The nails your put thru the sub-floor are only there to hold it in place till the glue drys. Srews do the same thing a 8 penny nail would d0...hold the sub panel in place tilll the glues drys. You could go back thru after the glue drys and pull all the nails out and it wouldnt matter. Of course the inspector wouldnt like it and would fail your nailing inspection but that glue(Liqued nails, named that for a reason)will hold for ever


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## emersonhomes (Aug 18, 2007)

*osb*

Osb is a green biulding product and some what cheaper then regular ply. Standard shear practice with osb is to hang it verticaly. Osb has the same shear rateing as regular ply although in wet conditions should be wraped asap or the stuff falls apart. Other then that use it al day long with the same affects as plywood. I use osb all the time not only for it's cheaper price but also becuase its made from recyled lumber. Plus its lighter and has stud lines mardked out. If its raininy season and I wont be able to get my siding on or roof on before it's to damaged I wont use it.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

GooseCA said:


> *Since there is no GC* markup involved it gives some room to *play*. And I *laugh* when any GC says he makes 20%, which is a number they all seem to make, *lol.*


Play all you want, in the end your mistakes will cost much more than 20%, then who has the last laugh. :laughing:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

skyhook said:


> I know building inspectors who would fail your framing inspection and make you tear down everything framed with KD. I have seen them do it. :laughing::laughing:


And I know building inspectors that would laugh at your building inspectors.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

emersonhomes said:


> On the note of some poeple useing srews to hold down a sub floor I feel sorry for the contractors having thier guys do that. Its a total waste of time and money. The glue holds the sub floor down. The nails your put thru the sub-floor are only there to hold it in place till the glue drys. Srews do the same thing a 8 penny nail would d0...hold the sub panel in place tilll the glues drys. You could go back thru after the glue drys and pull all the nails out and it wouldnt matter. Of course the inspector wouldnt like it and would fail your nailing inspection but that glue(Liqued nails, named that for a reason)will hold for ever




I call BULL CRAP. It does not take any longer to screw a floor off than it does a nail gun. Some glues don't take well in wet conditions such as Washington state when you add the winter weather. The only glue that claims to be work in the rain is rainbuster and that is pricey compared to a liquid nails. 

LN seems to be a more of a home owner glue that you get a home depot.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I don't agree with you on the time between nails and screws, I'll place bets on that one, but I do agree with you that glue is not all created equal. Some of that stuff we used in Seattle was snot slick...hell diarrhea slick. And some of that Liquid Nails *is* homeowner stuff, but other makes/models/releases...whatever they call it is damn good stuff.

Did you ever try out the metal can spray foam glue that came around about 5 or 6 years ago? One can did like 30 sheets and as soon as you dropped that ply it almost stuck right there.


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

I agree that LN is way too "loose" and it get's everywhere. I've found the OSI brand adhesive to be a little thicker, and easier to use.


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