# Re-pointing brick walls



## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

My friend has a brick home. It is winter-time and roofing is slow. lol
He asked if I want to re-point his brick home for winter work.
It is the dead of winter, though. I know their is additives for winter work, but how good do they work. What is a fair per. sq. ft. price for grinding out and re-pointing. 7-10 dollars a sq. ft. I took a masonry class years ago, but have limited experience. Still have the Hawk, and other tools.
Don't beat me up to bad, guys. lol


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

Onarooftop said:


> My friend has a brick home. It is winter-time and roofing is slow. lol
> He asked if I want to re-point his brick home for winter work.
> It is the dead of winter, though. I know their is additives for winter work, but how good do they work. What is a fair per. sq. ft. price for grinding out and re-pointing. 7-10 dollars a sq. ft. I took a masonry class years ago, but have limited experience. Still have the Hawk, and other tools.
> Don't beat me up to bad, guys. lol


People cant' help you if you don't give them more details such as:

First of all where are you located??? Is it all ground work or will you be using ladders, scaffolding, stages???? Is it just you or do you have "employees"


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

There are no additives for mortar for winter work. There are plenty of things to allow you to get the work done, but none that provide a quality mortar.

Tent it if it is cold or wait until it can be done correctly. If you have specific questions, be specific.


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

Hi Brickie,

Erie, Pennsylvania. Yes, I have employees. I have two that can't collect unemployment because they subcontracted off of a company last year. Walls are about 30' tall. We would be using ladders and 20' two man pick. I figured we would grind all the joints. We have all the diamond blades and grinders. Then, wait for a 40 degree day to point it up. Thanks for your advice.


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

1/2 inch or 3/4 inch depth on grind.
Should I use pre-mix mortar. Is that more dummy proof?
Fast Setting Mortar?
Does the weather need to be 40 and above?


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

> I figured we would grind all the joints. Then, wait for a 40 degree day to point it up. Thanks for your advice.


That's like a MAJOR NO-NO when it comes to Tuck Pointing. You can end up doing a lot more damage to the house.




> We would be using ladders and 20' two man pick.


To do this job properly, in the middle of winter, with all the rain, ice, snow & subzero crap, you'll need to tent it in. If you don't, you WILL definitely be getting a call back to fix a lot of stuff.


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

I figured we would grind all the joints. Then, wait for a 40 degree day to point it up. Thanks for your advice. 
That's like a MAJOR NO-NO when it comes to Tuck Pointing. You can end up doing a lot more damage to the house

Well, I don't want to do any damage to the house. Does the tuckpointing and then waiting for a few 40 degree days in a row to point it work. If not, as far as tenting it off.....how long do I keep it tented off. A few days. Just why I am working on it, during the day? 
Should I shoot the torpedo heater under the tent for awhile to help it set up quicker.
Is the quickset mortar the way to go in the winter.
Thanks for all your help/advice.
Kyle


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

Does a brick house really need to have all the joints repointed? How old is this house. 
I am serious about asking this as I have never seen or heard of a complete house needing all the joints pointed up, with exception to one that I took under litigation where one could put a blade all the way thru the depth of the brick due to so many voids thru out the exterior. And what was there was a poor at best job. It had black mortar at that. Ended up removing all the brick & having it bricked again. Just over a 5,000 sq ft 2 story home. 
Other than that I not heard of it being done, with exception to misc 
repairs.


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

The home was built in 1914. They are what are called (Row Homes) in this area. The brick houses are all attached for a whole block. About twenty houses or so.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It is probably lime mortar, in which case it probably does need to be repointed, but not with portland mortar. You need to make sure of that before you do anything else.


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

How would you know if it has lime or not. Is their a test.

I have a lady that wants me to re-point her (Exposed) chimney in
her dining room, also.


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

Tscarborough said:


> It is probably lime mortar, in which case it probably does need to be repointed, but not with portland mortar. You need to make sure of that before you do anything else.


One thing I have learnt early in the Construction business before pricing, doing, or offering info on a particular problem, even if I feel I have an answer, always speak with a trade that has knowledge of the time something was built if before my time, as with the lime mortar. 

All the experience I have in home building, consulting for Engineers, as well as the times I have been accepted as an expert witness in residential cases, it does not matter, if I am not 100 % sure of a needed answer, I ask and learn. Materials or labor needed. 
This saves so much eating crow and can keep one stepping upwards in business. 
20 years of doing something wrong does not justify it being right!!! :thumbup:

I did know about as well as did point up a few chimneys in my time, but this is a first I have heard of complete re-pointing of homes. Never having operated a business in a city with the amount of brick some some city homes have, probably why. But still great info to know. 

Thanks & Merry Christmas to all as we draw closer to the day we all can get more TOOLS.. hahaha:clap::clap:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

If it is very light colored and powdery, it is probably lime mortar.


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

What do you guys use to clean the brick on a small chimney. Muratic Acid, or oxygen bleach. Do you use the Acryl 60 when you are
repairing a chimney crown. I heard it is good stuff, to put on before the cement. What cement ratio do you like to use for chimney crowns.
It should be stronger than the mortar for the re-pointing or do you use the same ratio?
Thanks,
Kyle


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Here is some reading for you that might be helpful.

Tuckpointing
http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/tps/briefs/brief02.htm

This might help with the cleaning questions.
http://www.nps.gov/history/hps/tps/briefs/brief01.htm

Also search the this forum using the search feature using terms like tuckpointing, pointing, repointing etc. There has been lots of helpful discussion on this subject concerning pricing, expectations, best tools to use, lime mortars, etc. I've learned a lot about tuckpointing and mortar types on this forum and all of it has been discussed over and over again.

example of good thread taken from search.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f48/tuckpointing-1890-home-3760/

Also if matching mortar color is important search for that as well as there has been good discussion on that subject.

Good Luck it is definitely something that you can learn to do but do your homework first so you don't get yourself into trouble.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Onarooftop said:


> What cement ratio do you like to use for chimney crowns.
> Kyle


Chimney Cap Recipe:

Here is the mix I use , 3 and a half 5 gallon buckets of sand , one bag of type n or s mortar and a half a bag of type I portland cement, mix it between the consistency of brick mud and stucco, and trowel it on in a slight dome shape.

The reason I quit using shovels and went to buckets is ....you get the exact same amount of sand in every batch, if you use the same bucket .....which works out to be 15 shovels......this way if you have a different labor mix mud , you dont have to worry about him using a smaller shovel of sand than the previous mud man.....


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

How do you feel about type S mortar?
What are your tips about repointing a 3' tall
chimney in the winter?
Thanks


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Ona,

Don't repoint brick in cold weather. We are in Connecticut and the weather is pretty close to yours. We only do this type work from May 1 to Oct 15. 

The short of it is that mortar needs water and heat to cure. A 1/2" square line of mortar applied to a cold wall cools off so fast the chemical reaction for curing and bonding almost stops. I am not talking about the mortar looking or feeling hard. 

Heating under a tent. It takes a lot of heat to warm a wall under a make shift tent. Yes the air feels warm. But stick a thermometer in the brick, especially near the ground.... Crank up the heat and you use up all the moisture in the brick and dry out the mortar real fast...No bond !

Without knowledge, time and money spent on precautions you can waste alot of time and money on cold weather precautions.

If you were working for a customer and only had to guarentee it for a year go ahead if your desperate for the work. For a friend.....


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## gregstone (Jan 7, 2009)

There are plenty of winter additives, don't listen to tscarborogh... Go to (euclidchemical.com) used their products for many years here in the midwest.....excellent


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I'll repeat it again, just for you Gregstone:

*There are plenty of things to allow you to get the work done, but none that provide a quality mortar.
*

And you need a quality mortar for tuckpointing.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I am familiar with Euclid products. I assume this is the one you mean:

http://www.euclidchemical.com/product_detail.asp?id=314&pselect=289&cselect=297&tselect=287#289

Call and ask them if they recommend using it for cold weather tuckpointing.


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## gregstone (Jan 7, 2009)

I have a problem with "none that provide a quality mortar" I can't believe a mason today cannot accept adding high quality winter admixture to their work. Open the mind.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

gregstone said:


> I have a problem with "none that provide a quality mortar" I can't believe a mason today cannot accept adding high quality winter admixture to their work. Open the mind.


I'm not an expert in this area so I won't comment on the specifics of "good" mortar "bad" mortar, but I do know not to bring a knife to a pistol fight.

Let me just say this, I once brought the proverbial knife and I still regret it. In other words I didn't listen to the collective wisdom of the experienced masons on here kindly dispensing sound advice for free. I did my own thing on this particular job and today it is still a thorn in my side, fortunately it is the only one.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Gregstone. Simply call Euclid technical support (not your salesman), and explain that you are tuckpointing an exposed chimney in the dead of winter, in Erie Pennsylvania, and ask if that product will provide a quality mortar for the application.

Here is the number, ask for technical support:

(800) 321-7628


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## RZB (Sep 30, 2008)

From what I've read about winter admixtures they only speed up the curing time not the "drying" time, you don't have to heat the wall for the full curing time.


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## Onarooftop (May 19, 2008)

I will try that site. I am going to do a 3' chimney. They sell Freezeban at our local masons hardware store. I am 
anxious to do some work. I will go back in the spring and, if I have to re-do it I will.


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## brickpoint (May 5, 2010)

*brick repointing*

totally agree with the sentiments posted here, it's very hard to find specialist additives for dealing with mortar for pointing brick in really cold weather.


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