# Homeowner decides to use another contractor



## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

Let's not loses sight of the fact that this woman is a total POS.
 Good lesson though. If it happend with the mother of a good/returning customer it can happen with anyone.

F%*k Gloria


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Now does everyone know why you never go look at a house somebody is buying for free? 

Man, a non-refundable deposit taken what? 6 weeks ago when all this started sure would have been a nice thing to have had wouldn't it? Take your time with your closing... not ready yet? No problem...

Don't own the house yet? Call me when after you close.

Anybody heard anything about the mortgage crisis that has been going on for over a year? :w00t:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

cyezza said:


> I have over 24 hours of my time ie site visits, inspecting property, drawing floor plans and coordinating subs. Can I recoup any money for lost wages, and time spent preparing estimates, drawings etc?
> 
> Thanks



I have over 10 minutes of my time invested reading this post....can I recoup any money for my time, electric use and internet use?


I'm pretty sure the answer to both questions is: NO :furious:



:thumbsup::laughing:


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

Celtic said:


> I have over 10 minutes of my time invested reading this post....can I recoup any money for my time, electric use and internet use?
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the answer to both questions is: NO :furious:
> ...


 
But he can try!!! You never know.:no:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Now does everyone know why you never go look at a house somebody is buying for free?


I'd go, so I could see just how they do it:whistling


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Celtic said:


> I have over 10 minutes of my time invested reading this post....can I recoup any money for my time, electric use and internet use?
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the answer to both questions is: NO :furious:
> ...


Really?


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Framer53 said:


> But he can try!!! You never know.:no:


I will be talking to her tomorrow. When I scheduled to start the work on Aug 24th with her, She basically implied we have a contract and I would have had a signature and deposit at the start. Did I learn my lesson, you betcha


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

cyezza said:


> I will be talking to her tomorrow. When I scheduled to start the work on Aug 24th with her, She basically implied we have a contract and I would have had a signature and deposit at the start. Did I learn my lesson, you betcha


Confused, Are you doing the work?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Celtic said:


> I have over 10 minutes of my time invested reading this post....can I recoup any money for my time, electric use and internet use?
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the answer to both questions is: NO :furious:
> ...






cyezza said:


> Really?


Well...you could prove me wrong by putting some money in my paypal account....what's your email address ~ I'll invoice you :thumbup:


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Celtic said:


> Well...you could prove me wrong by putting some money in my paypal account....what's your email address ~ I'll invoice you :thumbup:


Yeah at 60 dollars an hour I owe yo $10. Great contribution


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

duburban said:


> Confused, Are you doing the work?


No I was scheduled to start on Monday. Sunday evening she called and said she decided to go a different direction.

This was an $80,000 job


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## RizzoMaryland (Feb 12, 2007)

Nothing in that email constitutes an offer to me.


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## modterry (Nov 14, 2008)

I would have done the same process with this customer - since you had worked for them before.

I would call the Son and say = 
"What did we do wrong ? " , 
What could I have done better? , 

Be unassuming and non threatening. You might hear something you are not expecting as feed back.

If they won't answer your phone call , if it is important for you to know - send them a letter with a Dollar in it with a customer response form to have them fill out - have them send it back to your bookeeper and they will think it is something you do all the time.

The Mother may not have thought it through , acted on impulse. I don't think alot of people realize the amount of work it takes to do a good bid, schedule a job, line up the work etc.

In all likely hood you acted in good faith , got burned, as we all will at sometime or other.

I would chalk it up to experience, maybe discuss this type situation in the future , even with existing customers. It may have been price and the Customer does not have the gumption to call you and let you know.

They probably WILL have problems with the other guy - Just take the high road. 

You will feel better. Don't vent at the customer when you call them.

Terry


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

cyezza said:


> Right, I could not have a contract until it closed but she wanted me to start ASAP as she did not want to waste money paying her association fees i f I could not start right away


Of course you can have a contract before closing. The contract needs to include some language "pending closing" and "work to start within __ days of closing". 

Waste money on association fees? If she waits an additional couple weeks that will be a deal breaker? I smell a rat. She needed you to get a price, that's all. You were suckered into this because you would continue to hang in there while she worked out a deal with a family member. You provided all the answers about pricing and costs. You were willing to work for free.


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## laxdad (Jul 22, 2009)

there are so many people involved with a RE transaction that could be in her ear. when someone is going through all this... especially in THIS economic climate - they are the belle of the ball. everyone wants to be their friend and make sure the sucker closes.

usually the buyer's RE agent is the culprit - it's a control thing. since they pick the insp (in this case did not?? and this alone could be an issue) and pest co. then their is the lender... loan officer and processor, next is title company, then the other agent, and whoever may have done the work from the ratified contract..... always a guy the works cheap for the agents. then throw in the trigger data being sold because her credit was pulled - and every person assoc with housing calling or mailing her.

a week after she closes she'll be all alone again


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Well...you could prove me wrong by putting some money in my paypal account....what's your email address ~ I'll invoice you :thumbup:





cyezza said:


> Yeah at 60 dollars an hour I owe yo $10. Great contribution


:blink:

I don't charge $60/hr....it's a bit more....now gimme that email address before I have to place a lien on your internet account.


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

RizzoMaryland said:


> Nothing in that email constitutes an offer to me.


What offer? She was saying as soon as she closes I will begin the work. the e-mail followed with a phone call and the work was scheduled to begin on Aug 24th. That sounds like an agreement of sorts to me.


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Celtic said:


> :blink:
> 
> I don't charge $60/hr....it's a bit more....now gimme that email address before I have to place a lien on your internet account.


[email protected] Don't you have some pies to eat?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

cyezza said:


> Don't you have some pies to eat?



Thanks Chuck...your prompt payment will ensure I stay at maximum density :thumbsup:


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

ever hear of the term...."screwed like a housecat"?


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## codaman (Oct 15, 2008)

Cyezza,

I know how you feel, I have been in the same place (twice in the last month). It sucks, and it sucks worse when times are tough. All I can say is what I have been telling myself...."Be smarter next time, and let it go". You did what you thought was "right" because you're probably a good guy but business is business. I've learned my lesson.


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

codaman said:


> Cyezza,
> 
> I know how you feel, I have been in the same place (twice in the last month). It sucks, and it sucks worse when times are tough. All I can say is what I have been telling myself...."Be smarter next time, and let it go". You did what you thought was "right" because you're probably a good guy but business is business. I've learned my lesson.


Great advise, I can sleep better.

I was burned a couple of years ago by a concrete sub, sometimes it is easier to walk away then expend all your energy on these dirt bags!!! What burns me about this situation is she is wealthy but a cheap skate.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

if you you've got offer, consideration and exceptance, than you.ve got a contract, if you can prove conveyance, than you've got an enforceable one


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## skarrlette (May 14, 2008)

This is the part of this business that bugs me. Why is 24 hrs of his time not worth getting paid for!! But any other job the person expects to get paid. Name one profession where a person would work 24 hrs for free!! The operative word is that this is a business!!! The email is grounds for payment of the 24 hrs that you gave her. That counts as a contract she led you around the nose for a while. Your time is worth something I am sorry I would ask for payment I would send the bill. I think people need to treat this as business not a friendship. Whenever you read other contracts by other types of businesses if you opt out or anything after giving them your word you get charged. Missed doctors visits they charge you if you don't give 24hrs notice. I am sorry forget that she is a reliable customer she is not loyal to you she just screwed you. Send the bill or email and charge for your time and explain to her nicely why, if you want I will send the email !! I am good at writing :clap:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

...not so much at reading though, eh? :w00t:


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## skarrlette (May 14, 2008)

really?? I bet I could get the money


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

do it then...split it with the op


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

skarrlette said:


> This is the part of this business that bugs me. Why is 24 hrs of his time not worth getting paid for!! But any other job the person expects to get paid. Name one profession where a person would work 24 hrs for free!! The operative word is that this is a business!!! The email is grounds for payment of the 24 hrs that you gave her. That counts as a contract she led you around the nose for a while. Your time is worth something I am sorry I would ask for payment I would send the bill. I think people need to treat this as business not a friendship. Whenever you read other contracts by other types of businesses if you opt out or anything after giving them your word you get charged. Missed doctors visits they charge you if you don't give 24hrs notice. I am sorry forget that she is a reliable customer she is not loyal to you she just screwed you. Send the bill or email and charge for your time and explain to her nicely why, if you want I will send the email !! I am good at writing :clap:


Good luck collecting anything in a case like that...


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

skarrlette said:


> really?? I bet I could get the money





J F said:


> do it then...split it with the op


I'll even forfeit my fee to the OP. :thumbsup:

Chuck....want skarrlette to go break the old bags legs? :blink:


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## Aframe (Mar 24, 2008)

In a case like this I would send a bill. Even if you had no expectation of getting paid for it. 

Write up what you did in preparation for starting the job. It may dawn on them that you had committed time and resources to starting the job the next day.

They may or may not pay, but your "client/friend" will know not to waste your time again.


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Celtic said:


> I'll even forfeit my fee to the OP. :thumbsup:
> 
> Chuck....want skarrlette to go break the old bags legs? :blink:


Now your contributing, sounds like a plan


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Aframe said:


> In a case like this I would send a bill. Even if you had no expectation of getting paid for it.
> 
> Write up what you did in preparation for starting the job. It may dawn on them that you had committed time and resources to starting the job the next day.
> 
> They may or may not pay, but your "client/friend" will know not to waist you time again.


I did send an invoice on Monday. On Tuesday, I talked to her but she claims she did not read her e-mails yet and will let me know. By the way my invoice was for $5,075. I am talking to an Attorney, and he feels there maybe a breach of contract. Will keep you posted


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

How did you come up with that number? Did you say you had about 24 hours in it? ($211 an hour). Or am I missing something? 

Just curious, as that might be quite a bit harder to justify in court than say $65-$120 an hour.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Working on a bid can be claimed as $65/hr or so, but designing on a computer is a specialized skill and can claim higher rewards. Plus if there are pictures/renderings/drawings involved they can claim a good price also. Plus fuel for traveling. So the 24 hours may not just be labor but actual materials (pictures/renderings/drawings) too.


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

J F said:


> How did you come up with that number? Did you say you had about 24 hours in it? ($211 an hour). Or am I missing something?
> 
> Just curious, as that might be quite a bit harder to justify in court than say $65-$120 an hour.


Time spent plus lost wages due to scheduling work twice and then cancelled


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## Aframe (Mar 24, 2008)

That amount may be a hard pill for them to swallow. Not saying it's wrong for what you were led to believe was a done deal. That's up to you. 

Good luck, and if you get it, how about pie for everybody that helped:thumbsup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

cyezza said:


> I did send an invoice on Monday. On Tuesday, I talked to her but she claims she did not read her e-mails yet and will let me know. By the way my invoice was for $5,075. I am talking to an Attorney, and he feels there maybe a breach of contract. Will keep you posted


If your serious about collecting...be serious about invoicing...send the bill certified, return receipt requested....no chance of any shenanigans.





Did someone say free pie???? :w00t:


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Celtic said:


> If your serious about collecting...be serious about invoicing...send the bill certified, return receipt requested....no chance of any shenanigans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep

I received a call from Homeowner's daughter ( my customer) asking me to let it go and if I did, she would pay me $2,000. So what does everyone think about that?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Sounds about $3K short of what is owed. And if we are talking about breach of contract a whole lot more.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

cyezza said:


> Yep
> 
> I received a call from Homeowner's daughter ( my customer) asking me to let it go and if I did, she would pay me $2,000. So what does everyone think about that?





Leo G said:


> Sounds about $3K short of what is owed. And if we are talking about breach of contract a whole lot more.


When does trebling come into play?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

cyezza said:


> Who said opinion? Advice I got from my attorney, I was interested in what other contractors thought or would do in my situation. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!


Not really. How is "what do you think" or "what would you do if?" different than opinions or advise?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Anti-wingnut said:


> How is looking for advice different than getting an opinion?


 
I think advice is generally "for profit" while opinion is "not for profit"


Just my opinion...unless you want to send me a pie and we'll call it my advice:thumbsup:


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## cyezza (Aug 19, 2009)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Not really. How is "what do you think" or "what would you do if?" different than opinions or advise?


Again, where did I state OPINION? No need to explain any further to you, I think you are just looking for an argument. Thanks for your Opinion, even if I was asking for it


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