# Has Anyone Ever Heard Of This?



## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

datajam said:


> I have had everybody from a corporate big shot to a dipstick take pot-shots at me for three days and frankly I have had enough.


Ok, who is the dipstick and who is the corporate big shot? :laughing:


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)




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## jeremy-lvhm (Sep 28, 2009)

data your mistake was expecting advise from this group. This is a group of people that as a whole think they know more than everyone else on this board. 

And most of them are not even HVAC contractors anyway so I wouldn't take too much to heart.

Central and individual are both acceptable return systems with individual being the better and more expensive to run. 

You were a bit presumptuous as well but you did come here to ask and learn. Just remember that while you can learn here it comes at a cost most times. 

Next time find the guys that answer you in the open forum without cutting you down and send them a private message. If I can help in any way I will help or tell you when I cant.

Good luck


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

jeremy-lvhm said:


> data your mistake was expecting advise from this group. This is a group of people that as a whole think they know more than everyone else on this board.
> 
> And most of them are not even HVAC contractors anyway so I wouldn't take too much to heart.
> 
> ...


His mistake was in his approach to asking for information, he doesn't have a clue about A/C work yet he questioned the expertise of the A/C contractor, BTW I am a General contractor as well as A/C Contractor.

If the guy des not know what he is doing is should not be questioning the work until he finds out if there is a problem, now the HO is ither going to lose confidence in the GC or A/C contractor over this issue.

Had he asked a question like this-

I am doing a remodel and I saw an A/C system with 8 returns, I have never seen a system like this, I have always seen them with 1 large return, is this ok?

Instead of this-



datajam said:


> I recently looked at a job (remodel) in which the HVAC Contractor installed a new Central Heat & Air system. Instead of one single large return,* he installed about 8 small returns, one for each room. Am I wrong or does this guy need his head examined?*
> 
> While I have a basic understanding of HVAC, I am not experienced enough to ascertain the potential problems this installation may cause (other than having to find a whole bunch of small return filters) if it is not replaced/reworked. I have no idea who these follks hired for the HVAC work, licensed/unlicensed, or whatever. I have already suggested that the work will have to be redone correctly to the owners.
> 
> ...


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## jeremy-lvhm (Sep 28, 2009)

just because you passed a test in Florida doesn't make you an expert by far.

The guy made a mistake. Instead of acting like the pompous ASS that you so openly claim to be, you see it more fit to act like a bigger jerkss than he originally did with the homeowner. 


If you were so damn good at HVAC I don't think you would be doing general contracting as well. I can only imagine that AC business is so slow in a state like Florida that a decent AC contractor cant make a good business.:notworthy


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

jeremy-lvhm said:


> just because you passed a test in Florida doesn't make you an expert by far.
> 
> The guy made a mistake. Instead of acting like the pompous ASS that you so openly claim to be, you see it more fit to act like a bigger jerkss than he originally did with the homeowner.
> 
> ...


 

The fact that I have the experience and I passed a state exam and am licensed by the state of Florida does make me an expert on A/C systems.



data gave bad advice to the HO and hurt the credibility of not only himself but he GC he works for.

My primary business is being a General Contractor, I had that license long before I got the A/C License. 

BTW I have also passed the state test for certified Plumbing Contractor as well.

Florida requires an extensive test and 4 years proven experience to get licensed,unlike PA where you pay $50 and register to be an contractor, I guess PA will allow any hack to be a contractor.

For $50 my daughter with no construction or business experience can be a licened HIC in PA.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Wow, Jeremy is a bigger jerk than the rest of us. The problem is not Data-jams question, it is his stupid actions; calling into question to the HO'ers the installation of a mechanical system he did not understand. He further questioned the competence of the HVAC contractor. He did not follow etiquette or common sense. He could have been fired, and many contractors I know would have. He should just quit defending himself, and crying about how mean we are. And Jeremy should just shut the ***** up


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## jeremy-lvhm (Sep 28, 2009)

Well being that I am not in the PA state government I could care less about what you think about the licensing system. I'm surprised they came up with the stupid HIC license to begin with. I rely on my years of experience to stand up for what I know. Not am I ignorant enough to call myself an expert unlike yourself. You guys act like a pack of retards.:jester:

This is an industry with so many aspects that a person could specialize in many different things and still not be an "expert".

Pass all the tests you want, take all the classes you want and I will find someone that hasn't taken one class that can blow you out of the water. I have more respect for the guys that learned the hard way and don't act like gods gift to the industry.

I personally think that as a "professional" group we need to act less like pompous jerk offs and more like the professionals we claim to be. Show a little class. Instead of cutting someone down for something I am SURE you have all done. Every guy out there has cut down another contractors work without being experts in that particular field.:shutup:


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## jcalvin (Feb 1, 2008)

Here are my thoughts...

DataJam may be a "gc supervisor", but most likely only because he is either older than the other guy that works for the gc or because he is the only guy that works for the gc. "*In all 55 years that I have been alive, owned multiple properties, and so-on and so-forth . . . never have I observed an HVAC set up like this*." I personally am not close to 55yrs old or owned many homes, but, I have seen HVAC systems ducted both ways and know the advantages/disadvantages of each method. I have a sneaking suspicion that DataJam is someone who is trying to sell himself as a "gc supervisor"...employed by the owner to make sure the gc does what he is supposed to. He likely only knows enough to get himself in trouble and is mearly a slow down to the true professional on the job.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Reading Data Jams post, it doesn't sound that bad. We don't know what he said to the homeowner, or how he said it. Should he have asked the question to the hvac group first? Yes. But he doesn't deserve the sass he got. From what he said later, he fessed up to the home-owners and if not mistaken, apologized to the hvac contractor. What more can you ask? 

Jeremy came to this sight sounding like an abrasive jerk, but I have to side with him here.

By the way Jeremy, the expression is "couldn't care less"...


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## jeremy-lvhm (Sep 28, 2009)

flashheatingand said:


> Reading Data Jams post, it doesn't sound that bad. We don't know what he said to the homeowner, or how he said it. Should he have asked the question to the hvac group first? Yes. But he doesn't deserve the sass he got. From what he said later, he fessed up to the home-owners and if not mistaken, apologized to the hvac contractor. What more can you ask?
> 
> Jeremy came to this sight sounding like an abrasive jerk, but I have to side with him here.
> 
> By the way Jeremy, the expression is "couldn't care less"...


 
THANKS BUDDY ;-)

I have been told by a very good ex coworker of mine that I was subtle as a cement truck.

I think we all have the abrasive jerk in us but some of us more than others. Some guys here jumped on his ass right away with no sense of just how insignificant this issue was. But then again when I asked for help in the remodeling forum I got the same treatment without people knowing all the facts. 

Thanks for fixing my grammar as well:notworthy


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Boys, boys, boys! :no:
It's just the interweb here.


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## MechAcc (Feb 27, 2005)

OGStilts said:


> :wallbash: What kind of cracker boxes are you building with one single return in the house? :bangin:



Probably the ones where they use a single return with a downflow furnace over a crawl space they cut out register holes in the floor and the entire crawl space is the supply plenum.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

MechAcc said:


> Probably the ones where they use a single return with a downflow furnace over a crawl space they cut out register holes in the floor and the entire crawl space is the supply plenum.


Lol we had an engineer, granted he was a civil engineer but we did an addition to his office. It was like 1200 sq ft and he wanted the HVAC guy to just cut holes in the floor and not run any ductwork so he could use the crawlspace as the plenum. His theory was it heated the whole floor and kept the crawlspace dry. :laughing: Needless to say it wasnt done that way.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

The OP's big mistake was telling that he told the home owners that the HVAC install was not right.

And for as much as he got jumped on here. He now knows how he would feel. If an HVAC contractor told those same home owners that he had the walls framed incorrectly, and the whole addition had to be torn down and rebuilt.

In this area. Individual returns still the norm. In new construction(what little there is right now).

Individual returns help to ensure an unrestricted path for the air to return to the furnace/air handler.
Allow for bedrooms doors to be shut for privacy with out having to have an undercut. 
Or causing those rooms to be cooler or warmer then the rest of the home when the door is shut, and not undercut.


Code prohibits returns from bathrooms, closets, and from being within 10' of a kitchen range exhaust hood.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

the original post led us to believe the installation WAS complete. In his followup, he stated that the project was in the proposal phase and his boss 'stamped' the project an it's set to begin tomorrow. something doesn't add up...


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## datajam (Jul 4, 2009)

Howdy Folks

Allow me to provide a little clarification. The HVAC install was completed prior to our being called in to bid other portions of the project. And, at the time I was unable to get any info relative to the HVAC Contractor, thus no idea if licensed or unlicensed. I did not diminish my credibility as the HO brought the HVAC to my attention as they had concerns. And as always, when I do not know the correct answer . . . I start my response with, "I am not a Contractor. I will have to check on this . . . yada yada yada" Because, there is a lot of construction I do not know anything about. I admit it. 

And, when I ascertain what, if any, problem exists . . . I advise the HO regarding the issue. Most the time there is a reason for things done the way they are and I simply learn from the interaction.

However, my posting here did provide little in the way of information relative to my question. Instead it provided an instant "JERK METER" identifying a number of jerks that feel themselves more qualified to question my doing my job than simply responding to my question. At first I was quite offended. No, at first I was Pizzed Off because those of you qualifying for jerk status are not capable of doing my job as demonstrated by your inability to address the question. DO NOT treat your customers this way, they will be offended.

As for this topic. I am embarrassed to admit involvement in the petty B. S., insults, and offenses that continue to thrown back and forth . . . and hope that most of you feel the same way. Therefore, I ask a Moderator to CLOSE this thread disallowing further response to it, and sincerely hope that ALL of us learned something from it. I know I have.

Thank You.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

This is the statement that got you the replies you received:



> I have no idea who these folks hired for the HVAC work, licensed/unlicensed, or whatever. I have already suggested that the work will have to be redone correctly to the owners.


It was already correct.

How you phrase what you say in a thread/post, will determine how you are responded to.

And that was just about the worst thing you could have said.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Beenthere,

Datajam just doesn't get it


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Hopefully. He learns from this thread.

I could write a book on what I haven't seen yet.

Except, I would have to see it, to know to write about it. :laughing:


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## MechAcc (Feb 27, 2005)

Datajam,

We all make mistakes in the way we handle clients and how we word statements that get misconstrued.

Suck it up. Learn from mistakes whether they be your own or others and move on.


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