# Stone Wall Pricing



## CJKarl

This is the first time I've been slow in the winter in 15 years. Usually we tent in with heat and work at least 4 days a week when the weather is nasty.
I'm afraid I'm being underbid. I'm in an affluent area and do high end custom stone work. I've never had to advertise, and all my work has been word of mouth networking with architects, builders and home some owners.
I'm can get $70 a sq.ft. for very tight, "dry look" veneers and $50-$70 a sq.ft. for looser ,but still very tight stone work.
Today I presented a bid for a double faced wall, 36" and 50' long. I'm slow, so I thought I bid it VERY reasonably. I gave the homeowners a proposal for $12,000...they looked at me like I had 2 heads.
Material would be mixed wall stone and snapped face wall stone with a mortared in cap. (mostly snapped face stone)


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## tkle

In the high end market,that's very reasonable.


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## lukachuki

But you see they were "thinking" that it would only cost about $1,000. I get that look all the time as so many people have no idea how much nice work costs.


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## bruno002

to be honest that seems on the high side. i am from the mass area its sort of the same market, and here for a very tight dry look for about 50 is up there, the average for that kind of work is around 40. but you can't work for free so you gotta charge what you need to.


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## Tscarborough

You would be lucky to get 3 grand for that wall around here.


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## stacker

come on!!!70 bucks a frigin sq ft.how in the world can you justify a price like that?i dont care how"tight" you make it.i am working on a million dollar home right now,and my prices did not go up one bit.i dont care if its a high end house or a low end house i charge the same price.
im not going to say anymore,


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## CJKarl

stacker said:


> come on!!!70 bucks a frigin sq ft.how in the world can you justify a price like that?i dont care how"tight" you make it.i am working on a million dollar home right now,and my prices did not go up one bit.i dont care if its a high end house or a low end house i charge the same price.
> im not going to say anymore,


Come up to CT and lay a little stone. Highest average income in the nation, hence EVERYTHING costs more up here.


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## CJKarl

Tscarborough said:


> You would be lucky to get 3 grand for that wall around here.



You're gonna lay 25 ton of stone for $3000? including materials? Come up to CT, I'll give you a job.


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## Tscarborough

I guess I don't waste as much; I calculate less than 5 tons for a 3'x50' double faced wall.


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## stacker

CJKarl said:


> Come up to CT and lay a little stone. Highest average income in the nation, hence EVERYTHING costs more up here.


i understand that.but you are talking 55-60 a foot more than podunk oklahoma.and i can understand the cost of living is higher there.
going by your logic,a new chevy pickup would run about 125,000?
my beer cost me 1.75 in the bar,it would be 7.00 there?


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## tkle

300 sq.' @ 12,000$ is only 40 a sq.'.I try to get around 35 for rubble with joints.High end homes in this area can easily hit the ten million mark.These people want service as well as quality.You earn your money.


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## jvcstone

Perfect example as to why it's nuts to talk prices on the web. First off, I suspect that the stone used up there in CT. isn't as easy to work as the limestone here in Texas. Seems to me that there is a lot of granite and other hard rock used up there. I use to figure about 35-40 sq feet per ton of stone. That coverage would drop significantly if the density of the stone went up from 135 lbs per cubic foot to say an average hard rock density of 180-190 lbs per cubic ft. To compare coverage between different stones doesn't work. 

I started out in this game in 1972-- at that time labor, sand & masonry prices were running about 65 cents per sq. ft. The stone was running about the same. When I quit bidding stone work in the mid 90's to focus full time on the carving, I was trying to get 4 bucks a ft LS&M, or 6-7 turnkey, and losing about 8 out of 10 bids. Today, there are crews working all over central Texas for as little as 1.65 labor, or 3.00 to 3.50 turnkey. Of course, most of the stone now used is sawed bed material, so it can be thrown up about as fast as brick and look fairly decent.

Did work on a big granite boulder job once. Required tight, consistent joints, with the boulder shapes rolling into the joint, and no tool marks showing. Have no idea what it cost the client per sq ft, but the masons ( I was one of 5 full time people on the wall) averaged 6 to 8 STONES per day, and we were never pushed to go faster. To tell the truth, I don't think that any of us could since we were essentially sculpting each stone to fit a spot.

So, I suspect this is all about apples and oranges with a little mango thrown in to keep things interesting.

JVC


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## 1over2

Those prices don't surprise me, we were getting $40 a foot for solid stone walls using corinthian granite in the early 90's up in VT.


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## CJKarl

Just started the wall yesterday, I'm paying $225 a ton for stone.:wallbash:


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## CJKarl

That's FOB, not delivered.


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## POOLMANinCT

i know your market, 12k is not unreasonable actually, im sure you can sell the same work for 20k... 

ray in connecticut


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## POOLMANinCT

my beer cost me 1.75 in the bar,it would be 7.00 there?[/quote]

im the wrong bar up here they are 7 bucks:sad:


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## CJKarl

CPSpool said:


> my beer cost me 1.75 in the bar,it would be 7.00 there?


im the wrong bar up here they are 7 bucks:sad:[/quote]

X2


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## kc4mqm

*That's Crazy..... but good*

I'm not throwing off on anybody, if you can get it then more power to you. That's great. I AM the top of the line mason in the tri state area of Georgia. I am a third gen. mason and we've been in buisness since 1952. I lay the best stone you'll see. You may see some as good, but not better. My going rate is $18 per sq ft including material. I would love to be able just to get $20, I would be making about $2000 a week on avg. Also this is natural stone, the fake rock goes as little as $12 up to $16. So if anyone wants a good mason cheap up there, call me. If you put me in a hotel and bought my meals you would still come out cheaper.


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## wesmartyn

kc4mqm said:


> I'm not throwing off on anybody, if you can get it then more power to you. That's great. I AM the top of the line mason in the tri state area of Georgia. I am a third gen. mason and we've been in buisness since 1952. I lay the best stone you'll see. You may see some as good, but not better. My going rate is $18 per sq ft including material. I would love to be able just to get $20, I would be making about $2000 a week on avg. Also this is natural stone, the fake rock goes as little as $12 up to $16. So if anyone wants a good mason cheap up there, call me. If you put me in a hotel and bought my meals you would still come out cheaper.


Better than the Incas?


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## natural1

Seems like a reasonable price to me, especially for double sided. Also, laying 50' of caps is time consuming. As for the amount of stone I usually figure about 1 ton per 20 square feet assuming about 6" deep. So perhaps 15 tons of stone for the job plus cap stones. I am assuming you are using a fieldstone which is more difficult to lay.

Mike


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## artisanstone

I think stonework in most parts of the country is underpriced. It also tends to be underbuilt. I struggle every day bidding apples against oranges. It's very difficult to educate the consumer about quality stonework. That said, I try (and often fail) to get $25/sq.ft. for 6" veneer fieldstone in upstate SC. I've yet to see anyone in my area do comparable work. If I could get $70/sq.ft., I could certainly use it up in labor doing better work. I know masons in many parts of the country that do very fine, time consuming work and probably have to charge more than that.


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## Vinny

CJKarl said:


> This is the first time I've been slow in the winter in 15 years. Usually we tent in with heat and work at least 4 days a week when the weather is nasty.
> I'm afraid I'm being underbid. I'm in an affluent area and do high end custom stone work. I've never had to advertise, and all my work has been word of mouth networking with architects, builders and home some owners.
> I'm can get $70 a sq.ft. for very tight, "dry look" veneers and $50-$70 a sq.ft. for looser ,but still very tight stone work.
> Today I presented a bid for a double faced wall, 36" and 50' long. I'm slow, so I thought I bid it VERY reasonably. I gave the homeowners a proposal for $12,000...they looked at me like I had 2 heads.
> Material would be mixed wall stone and snapped face wall stone with a mortared in cap. (mostly snapped face stone)


 I realize the start of this post is ancient but it seemed still on going so.......

CJ, is it possible your having a sales and marketing issue and not a price issue? thats what it seems like to me. 

I'll be the first to say most of the resisdential out door trades have been brutalized by the influx of new comers, mostly immigrants(not trying to be racist, just stateing the facts).

Landscapers are masons, Masons are excavators, Excavators are concrete guys. Thank God no one likes paving.

My point is you need to do some effective marketing and maybe some advertising to your market to keep your self on the top of the list. 

If your market is somewhat like mine, and I suspect it is, you dont have clients staying around very long so you need to keep your message buzzing around via marketing, and cant expect word of mouth to do it all. 

Then when the right pieces of the marketing puzzle are in place you need a sales process that shows the difference between you and your competition. 

BTW, did I speak to you earlier this year regarding pavers? Your name seems familiar.


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## wesmartyn

artisanstone said:


> I think stonework in most parts of the country is underpriced. It also tends to be underbuilt. I struggle every day bidding apples against oranges. It's very difficult to educate the consumer about quality stonework. That said, I try (and often fail) to get $25/sq.ft. for 6" veneer fieldstone in upstate SC. I've yet to see anyone in my area do comparable work. If I could get $70/sq.ft., I could certainly use it up in labor doing better work. I know masons in many parts of the country that do very fine, time consuming work and probably have to charge more than that.


I just had a look at your website Bill, beautiful work.


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## lukachuki

wesmartyn said:


> I just had a look at your website Bill, beautiful work.


Yeah, very interesting projects you have done. I see you are from Inman SC. I live in Aiken SC but grew up in Inman KS.

Just looking at your pictures has given me some ideas for a unique masonry support for signage for my business. What is that building with a flying buttress? Is it a public building?

Thanks for posting and welcome. There are lots of good people here and a few bonafide stone masons who have helped us rookies out tremendously.


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## artisanstone

It's actually a lake house. There is a reflecting pool between the two buttresses that sits on top of an underground garage.:thumbup:


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## kc4mqm

So is there anyone outside Atlanta who's not getting these prices? I knew N.C. and S.C. was getting about $22-$25 and I thought about moving up there. It sounds like to me I could just go anywhere but here. Are you seriously getting these prices??


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## kc4mqm

I'm not putting anybody down, I'm just in shock. I don't work for builders, well not many anyway. I mostly do custom work for homeowners and landscapers in the high end market. Houses up to the 4 mil range and a few over. I charge the same for everyone. I can't get the new construction jobs becuase of the builders going with the cheapest instead of quality. Speed and cheap is all they want and that's what they get. Sometimes around $12-$14 for natural and supply the material. I'm not going to compete in that. I have a hard time making money at $18.


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## artisanstone

It *is* hard to make money at $18 and do good work. You pretty much have no room for error. We work mostly in new construction and try to market ourselves as very careful design oriented craftsmen. It works some, but we lose lots of jobs to low bids. I know that there's several Atlanta area stone companies working up here. They are big, and they travel and still underbid us, but like I said, it's apples to oranges and you just have to convince people of that. Years ago, stonemasons were among the highest paid tradesmen and the work was built to last forever. Unfortunately, neither is often the case anymore. The thing about stonework is, as I'm sure you know, if you rush it the work is bound to suffer. It's not like laying brick or block (no offence intended). Check out some of the pics at stonefoundation.org


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## lukachuki

A truly beautiful building from stonefoundation.org 
A great mixture of brick and stone. Where's the imagination now days here in the states.

Sorry for the bunny trail from a serious subject!


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## Tscarborough

Good Lord, Lukachuki! You think that is beautiful!? It has details that are outstanding, to be sure, but taken as a whole that thing is an abortion. Would you like me to point out where the leaks will occur, and don't get me started on form and function!


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## lukachuki

Tscarborough said:


> Good Lord, Lukachuki! You think that is beautiful!? It has details that are outstanding, to be sure, but taken as a whole that thing is an abortion. Would you like me to point out where the leaks will occur, and don't get me started on form and function!


I do, and no a form and function lecture is not necessary.  I'm sure it breaks every building code known to man but at least it is interesting. In it's defense it is a water tower. Its funny though how peoples perception of what is beautiful is so different. 

I guess I should be honest as well and admit my weakness for masonry towers be it brick or stone. I seem to like them all....even the leaning ones.

I do think it is considerably better than this. 









Ciao


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## artisanstone

Where I live, all the textile mills have brick towers that were chimneys for the boilers. They are all round and I guesstimate them as being between 75-140 ft. tall. They have nice corbel details at the top and the mill buildings do too. It's amazing how much more they utilized craftsmanship back in the day. The mills date from the turn of the last century. Now they're tearing most of them down.


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## Tscarborough

I knew it was a water tower, but THIS is a water tower:


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## lukachuki

Very nice as well! The true test would be to see which water tower has the best tasting water. I would think my so called "aborted" water tower would win as the water is flowing through a TRULY beautiful structure. :w00t: Isn't the internet great...you can pick fights with people you don't even know over subjects no one cares about. Not that this is a fight...just difference of opinion!!!

Now to get this back on topic I wonder how much a square foot the masons charged for this water tower shown above.


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## Tscarborough

No picking fights, just conversation. I researched mine a bit, and it is made of cast iron not masonry, built in 1860 in Kentucky. A tornado tore it up, and it was only used until 1909. I bet the water in yours tastes MUCH better than 150 year old cast iron....


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## kc4mqm

The way this drought is going, I'll take water out of any of them. We can't even build water features down here because of it. Well, we can build them, just can't fill them or run them. How do ya'll charge for waterfalls and ponds and so on? I figure roughly how long and how much labor I'll have for digging and laying out. Then, $350 per ton of stone used (garden boulders or large boulders). On average around $3000 - $4000, I have bid one at $140,000 but that was a lake, not a pond. Well... the size of a lake anyway. This thing was huge! All for a golf course.


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## lukachuki

Tscarborough said:


> No picking fights, just conversation. I researched mine a bit, and it is made of cast iron not masonry, built in 1860 in Kentucky. A tornado tore it up, and it was only used until 1909. I bet the water in yours tastes MUCH better than 150 year old cast iron....


Interesting history. It looked like a nicely done cast stone water tower on initial inspection, at least to me. It took the tornado pretty well all things considered. I'm originally from KS where we spent most of our time living in fear of being flattened by a twister. The fear forced us to move from one storm shelter to another, occasionally we would come out into the open to conduct our business and after completing it as quickly as possible we scurried back to the relative safety of our basements and bunkers.


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## elementalist

*woah!!!!!*

I'm with you kc4
Down here in Florida where the rich people supposedly play and pay, we would still have trouble getting 40-50/sq. I'm working on a multi million dollor home on Sanibel Island, and I am charging $15/cuft to set dry laid retaining walls for planters. Am I crazy or should I be moving to where you are?


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## brystone

we used to do alot of stone natural & manmade, now we have certain people throwing it on cheap very cheap like $9.00 per sq ft which is a joke however they live in chicken houses. it keeps getting worse. if we solely relied on stone projects we would be out of business, thank god we are diversified we do alot of restoration, stucco and shotcrete etc. the market is very tough now, keyword is survival here in central pa.most here want just acceptable work done cheap including high end homes. agree with person said about being multi trade contractors. now we have chimney sweeps that are now masons, handyman that can do everything. it doesnt matter how good you are you realy need to market yourself to stand out from the rest. mabius masonry


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## LNG24

Back in 2000, I was paying my subs $40 sq. ft. for Dry Stacked stone walls. 

I think the issue up here in the North East might be the shear cost of the stone. I know shot rock and field stone run around $35 yd picked up. Not picked through! If you want to hand pick it, price almost doubles.


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## ruskent

70 seems low if anything. Hell i am doing SRWs for around that price!


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## sunshineturf

*hi*

Hey cjkarl its Joe from undergroundjeeps! Lol didnt know you did masonry I do also. Amazing us jeep guys are everywhere. Lets chat sometime about networking and business. undegroundjeeps.net or email me [email protected] Now get out there and play dirty (in the jeep)


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## CJKarl

sunshineturf said:


> Hey cjkarl its Joe from undergroundjeeps! Lol didnt know you did masonry I do also. Amazing us jeep guys are everywhere. Lets chat sometime about networking and business. undegroundjeeps.net or email me [email protected] Now get out there and play dirty (in the jeep)


HOLY-EEE-POOOP man, Small world. Hows the orchard/brewery place? That was a rock'in good time. :thumbup:


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## CJKarl

ruskent said:


> 70 seems low if anything. Hell i am doing SRWs for around that price!



SRWs?


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## Tscarborough

Segmental Retaining Walls.


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