# Illegal to Work inside Premises with only minor(s)?



## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

pcplumber said:


> *Personally, I would never worry about being around young boys since there is not a gay bone in my body.* Since everyone who knows me knows how straight I am it would be super difficult to get even the dumbest cop to believe that I did something with a boy. That is only my personal opinion.


Yes because any man that messes with underage boys MUST be gay. :no:


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

greg24k said:


> Anyone can accuse you of anything, they need evidence to support that and if they don't have it or can prove it they will get locked up or get slapped with a lawsuit. You have to be mental to come up with a bs story that someone tried to rape you or whatever.
> 
> What if there is no kids involved, and you in the house alone and they return from work and say 5k diamond ring is missing. This can start a whole drama, so what do we do, stop working because of a few incidence or if people trust you to work in the house alone should we refuse and tell them they have to hire a babysitter?
> Probably 75% of my customers go to work and leave me keys or garage combinations to come and do the work. Maybe during summer 5% if that will leave a kid at home alone at one point or another, or they will return from school while you still there ages 16 and up. Do we have to dash for the door if we know kid will be home in 10 min and we might be alone with him for a period of time?
> ...


IMO there's a difference between being accused of stealing something...and being accused of molesting a minor.

*Usually*...when it's proven that you didn't steal the thing, then it's over and forgotten about (by people in general, maybe not by the person missing the item). Even if it's proven that you didn't molest the child (which is harder to do...your word against theirs), most people that know about it will still "wonder"...usually forever. Reputations are permanently damaged.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

artinall said:


> Is it true that it is illegal to work inside of a unit where there is an unsupervised minor?
> 
> Say you customer has left, with only their son or daughter or whoever underaged person in the unit. Even though you are occupied and hard at work -- this is illegal?
> 
> Is this a state law?


No idea, but be very careful nonetheless. I once got deposed by a divorcing couple. There were some very sick accusations, and the lawyer of the accused was looking for a scapegoat. I thank my lucky stars that I always objected to working with an unsupervised child (7 yr old) in the home, because the lawyer asked me that more than once. Scary stuff. Over the years, on more than one occasion that lady asked if she could make a quick run to the store while the kid was napping. I always said no way. 

Later on I learned that the accusations were all manufactured, but it scared the cr_p out of me to get that lawyer's call that one day.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

greg24k said:


> Anyone can accuse you of anything, they need evidence to support that and if they don't have it or can prove it they will get locked up or get slapped with a lawsuit. You have to be mental to come up with a bs story that someone tried to rape you or whatever.


I know of multiple statutory rape allegations which were disproven. Forget about the person making the allegations, nothing is going to happen to them except, perhaps, counseling. If you sue them, you're not doing yourself any favors.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

hdavis said:


> I know of multiple statutory rape allegations which were disproven. Forget about the person making the allegations, nothing is going to happen to them except, perhaps, counseling. If you sue them, you're not doing yourself any favors.


I know and I hope it will never happen to me or anyone else for that matter and most will not proceed with legal action after the allegation was refuted.

But I remember the case of Tawana Brawley when she was found in a trash bag with racial slurs written all over her body and she was covered in s^*t and the BS story she came out with that she was raped turned out to be all false allegations and In in the late 90's the accused was awarded $345,000 and I remember he was asking like 300 million or more in a lawsuit he brought for defamation of character against her, Al Sharpton and a few others. He was also awarded 180k from the Tawana.

Today the law can punish someone big time for false accusations.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

A bit off topic, but I had a sub who I learned had "wandering hands" on a job. I knew the woman (married) working there, and a week later she told me that she thought it was "funny" how he seemed to find ways to "accidentally" touch her butt going up he stairway and tell her how nice she was, etc. She thought it was mostly harmless, but that was the last time he worked for me.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Ha ha, I thought you were going to say you learned he had wandering hands when you were working with him on the scaffold.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

If you think about it this can happen anywhere, in the store, on the bus, on the street, in any mall, etc.

If you on the bus, a mall, or anywhere else and a girl comes up with some BS or some prank and screams this guy just touch my private parts, he will probably be hospitalized before they get to the bottom of it and what really happened and before the cops arrive.

I never think about this crap because I never grew up around this things, and if someone was raped, molested, etc you would never hear about it... they would find a guy in the trunk of a car on one beautiful morning with his pecker stuffed in his mouth and that would be the end of it... no papers no media, no nothing. Back then no one would even call the cops if anything was going down, it was straightened out within the neighborhood.

The girls and the boys use too hang out from the days of playing bf and gf to the age going out, having fun, partying, having sex, dancing, etc. Guys were always the gentleman, treated any women with respect, open the door for the lady, etc, pretty much had an old school upbringing.

Today we deal with diffrent generations of kids and parents as well. You look at some kids today, you wanna walk up and smack them and you can't really put the blame on some of them because that is the upbringing they got and grew up in it.

Some parents don't give a s^*t what the kids do today for as long as the kids don't bring the trouble home... kids are bored to death, nothing to do, so they frying brains playing games,smoking all kinds of s*^t, like synthetic weed and sniffing chemicals to catch a buzz and then one day parents decide to swap a kitchen and kids come home from school and come up with a BS to accuse someone of something like this. Or a few kids would get high and decide to see what happens if they pull a prank like this on someone. 
Many times all this BS starts with a prank and when it gets deep enough and they realize how serious this turned out to be, they try to take it all away because they scared to back out and someone will suffer.

There can be a hundred situations when someone can be falsely accused of something like this and not a damn thing anyone can do to stop it, this why is useless to even think about this.

I hope nobody has to deal with something like this in their lifetime but if I guess if something like this happens to anyone, I guess the first thing anyone should do is request a Polygraph test. I mean what else is out there that can prove your innocence when it comes to she-said-he-said without any physical evidence.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

There are millions of falsely accused getting no money for every one getting a bundle


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## mtb (Oct 11, 2012)

pcplumber said:


> What I see on the news and some of my personal with teens give me opinions that are 100% the opposite of your post. Teenagers are very likely to accuse an adult of a sexual act that never occurred for hundreds of different reasons. At the age of 13 girls are very aware of their powers and they are aware of how males lust for them. There are hundreds of reasons young girls will accuse an innocent male of flirting, seducing and even sexual acts i.e. for attention or an alibi. I personally know a few fathers whose daughters accused them of rape and I am 100% positive that the fathers would never touch their daughters. I know one father whose daughter just accused him of raping her almost 40 years ago. This is a woman who you can see in a heartbeat that she has serious mental issues that probably revolve around some sort of sick sexual issues because she even accused her husband of raping their son.
> 
> I pay special attention to make sure I don't put myself in a position where I can get accused of any type of sexual act with a teenager and even when the teenager does not accuse you of something it is often the parents that suspect something and they get their daughters to agree to have you arrested and press charges. After the parents or daughters press charges they almost never back out of the case because they are embarrassed and know they are liable for lying, attorney fees and damages. Even if you don't go to prison you will always have an embarrassing arrest record. There will always be people you know who will think you are guilty, partially guilty and believe that you deserved to be arrested.
> 
> A very high percent of young girls are likely to get males involved in sexual cases when nothing happened. They make up stories because they are hungry for the attention and they want everyone to think they are beautiful and desirable.




I don't know how many of you actually have personal experience with this kind of thing but I do, and I think opinions like this are retarded. A high percentage of young girls will make false sexual accusations?

My wife and I have cared for 2 young girls who were sexually abused as children and the reality is very different from your perceptions. 

I would not want to be alone in a strangers house with their kids either, but unless the kid has serious mental illness or a history of abuse (which can cause serious mental illness, dissociative personality disorder) there is little chance of them accusing you of a sexual act. 

The real danger is that an unfortunately large proportion of women have been sexually assaulted and that experience can cause mental illness, in which case all bets are off. A normal healthy young girl is not going to ruin your life to be cool on social media.

Again, protecting yourself when dealing with unknown families is smart and reasonable, thinking that young teens are often making baseless sexual accusations is the same as thinking all Mexicans are rapists and black people are all thieves and drug dealers.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

In our instructions for customers in preparing for installs (part of our paperwork), we talk about if there is anything of value you want protected to ensure that it is removed from the work area... additionally, we inform them that animals and kids are not to be left unsupervised for any period of time and cannot enter the work area. IMHO, if you're going to be worried about a valuable non-living thing being broken, the most valuable are the living things...

Just as a course of action... In today's litigious world, it seems better to be pro-active than re-active... why bother wasting time even having to worry about it?

Being in a position of trying to disprove a negative, having to pay a lawyer to do so, and your job going to crap all seem pretty good incentive to have good business practices in place that negate as much of it as an issue to begin with...


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## mtb (Oct 11, 2012)

jproffer said:


> Yes because any man that messes with underage boys MUST be gay. :no:




Another common misconception of sexual abuse. Most abuse of children, pre-pubescent boys and girls, has less to do with normal sexual feelings and tendencies and more to do with power and dominance. 

When your male dog humps another male dog he's not gay he is proving his dominance. The same goes for men who abuse young boys in most cases.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

mtb said:


> Another common misconception of sexual abuse. Most abuse of children, pre-pubescent boys and girls, has less to do with normal sexual feelings and tendencies and more to do with power and dominance.
> 
> When your male dog humps another male dog he's not gay he is proving his dominance. The same goes for men who abuse young boys in most cases.


My point exactly. And most guys who mess with young boys are straight....and even married.

Most gay men don't like little boys any more than most straight men do. And the ones that do, don't like 'em because they're gay...they like 'em because they're F-in pedophiles.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

mtb said:


> A normal healthy


There's no such thing as normal. Show me one normal person, I dare you.


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## mtb (Oct 11, 2012)

hdavis said:


> There's no such thing as normal. Show me one normal person, I dare you.




Would it help if I used the word average? My point is that false accusations are not nearly as common as people would like to believe. 

When you have a sensationalistic national media a few cases or even a few hundred cases of any particular crime can seem like a lot, but when you consider there are over 300 million people in the country it's is a very small percentage and therefore the chances you will encounter it are also very small.

I didn't say it never happens I took exception to the statement "a very high percent of young girls are likely to get males involved in sexual cases when nothing happened".

A very high percentage of young girls are actually sexually molested in this country, and around the world.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

...


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

mtb said:


> Would it help if I used the word average? My point is that false accusations are not nearly as common as people would like to believe.


They aren't that uncommon, either. And no, average doesn't help.


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## mtb (Oct 11, 2012)

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think the statistics are on my side, but you can choose to believe that the facts that seem to back up my beliefs could be made up of a large proportion of false accusations so... I'll just stick with my personal experience and you can stick to yours. I wish my experiences were different honestly, 

I'd much rather believe young girls were just inherently selfish or didn't know the damage they were causing. 


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

mtb said:


> Would it help if I used the word average? My point is that false accusations are not nearly as common as people would like to believe.
> 
> When you have a sensationalistic national media a few cases or even a few hundred cases of any particular crime can seem like a lot, but when you consider there are over 300 million people in the country it's is a very small percentage and therefore the chances you will encounter it are also very small.
> 
> ...


If you don't think it is the norm then you had better read this very very scary and interesting story.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcmartin/mcmartinaccount.html

I don't think accusations are an exception to the rule and never did. You people who think falsely accusing someone of sexual allegations is not the norm and people not aware of the Mc Martin sexual abuse case that ruined the lives of everyone who owned and worked at a daycare business should read about the case.

It was the longest and most expensive case in the history of the United States. The accused (Buckey) was charged with more than 300 sex crimes, spent 5 years in jail and was cleared of every charge. The prosecution searched the entire world for evidence against him and never found one piece of evidence to support the case that was brought on my several parents (not only one parent). The way the parents and police acted about the case was like a lunch mob and if the parents had their way the accused and all the teachers would have been hanging from a tree.

The worse parts of this case are the business owner lost the business and all the teachers lost their homes because each teacher had to pay almost $250,000 to defend themselves. The most scariest thing about the case is that several (not one) parents accused Buckey of molesting several children. They said he would take the children to farms and take pictures of them and all sorts of weird stuff. Later, when one girl was 15-years old she must have been paid some good money because even after Buckey was cleared of all charged this girl got on television with a sad act and told how she was really molested.

In todays world, you are guilty until proven innocent and in the eyes of a very high percent of parents everyone who looks at their daughter is a child molester. A high percent of girls want attention and they want their friends to think they are beautiful and desirable so there is a high percent of girls who will say you did things you did not i.e. look at them, flirt with them, put even one finger on them when you was never even close, accuse you of saying things to them that you did not. 

In my lifetime, I had about 4 small encounters with girls I had absolutely nothing to do with. On one occassion, I walked into a Wendys Donut shop I was never inside before in my entire life. I sat on a barstool between two older people, ordered a coke, two plain donuts and the girl walked directly to the wall phone and made a phone call. About 3 minutes later two cops yank me off the barstool and tell me that the girl called the police because I was stalking her. I told the police to ask the two older customers what I did and they said the only thing I did was order the coke and donuts. That happened to me when about 38 years ago and it has bothered me ever since.

On another occasion, I was at a graduation party with my wife, daughter and my daughter's 17-year old girlfriend. The girlfriend was sitting straight across from me on the table and she constantly kept adjusting her blouse the entire time we were at the table. Later, the girl told my wife that I kept staring at her breast. The girl was short, stocky, not pretty and not my type at all and her accusation did not make any waves with my wife, but I am still bothered about how screwed up in the head a young girl can be. My thought was that if a girl is conscience of her big breast then she should have wore a higher blouse where she would not have had to make constant adjustments.

On another occasion, I was driving to a customer's home for the first time to give the customer an estimate and it was getting dark outside. As I was driving slow and looking for the number on the house a girl about 15-years old was walking on the sidewalk toward me. The girl thought I was looking at her and she started swearing at me and called me a pervert and a few other names. It turned out that this girl lived in the house I was going and she was so embarrassed she went directly into her bedroom and later when we worked in the house for three days she never came out of her bedroom.

I had one more encounter that was very strange with a 15-year old very cute Japanese girl and her father. I was giving an estimate to install water pipes in the home and the father opened the bathroom door. The girl was getting out of the shower with no towel and she yelled at her father. The father told me not to pay any attention and to continue going in the bathroom. I walked out, but later when we worked inside the home for two days the girl constantly kept coming out of her bedroom with only her underpants on and was making believe that she was going to get past us without us seeing her. I had to stop and ask myself if this girl had the potential to say someone touched her because she wanted more attention than we wanted to give her.

I had one more small encounter when a 15-year old girlfriend of my daughter was at my home. This was another short, stocky and not pretty girl who was not my type. I was walking down my driveway with a battery-operated drill and I jokingly pointed the drill at the girl and pulled the trigger. The girl told my wife that I touched her breast with the drill. I told the girl that she was never allowed to go onto my property again and that was the end, but sometimes when a girl's parents get involved the situation can get very ugly i.e. the Mc Martin case where the poor guy spent 5 years in jail and lost everything he had.

I also know two fathers who would never ever touch a child and their daughters accused the fathers of raping them, Forty years later, one father was accused by a 2nd daughter. That wacko daughter also accused her husband of molesting their son.

Sorry, but I think there is a very high probability that a contractor can get accused of saying something, or doing something to a young girl that the contractor did not do. We live in a world where you are guilty and go to jail before you can prove that you are innocent and they kill people in jail for child molesting allegations whether you are guilty or innocent. I don't suppose it feels very good to get beat to death in a prison cell when you are 100% innocent.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

mtb said:


> didn't know the damage they were causing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or in my case did not really care


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Simple solution. From now on I will have the working area Posted on every job :thumbsup::laughing:


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## mtb (Oct 11, 2012)

pcplumber said:


> If you don't think it is the norm then you had better read this very very scary and interesting story.
> 
> http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcmartin/mcmartinaccount.html
> 
> ...




It sounds like you should definately steer clear of young girls, but non of those personal experiences were exactly life ruining... 

I would rather have some frustrating anecdotes than try to rebuild a young woman's sense of self after real abuse, but obviously I have strayed somewhat from the topic and I think I am done.

When false allegations do come up, it is very damaging. As I said, given my experience, I will do all I can to avoid it as a matter of policy, however unlikely I think it is. So far it's never come up on a job for me.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

greg24k said:


> Simple solution. From now on I will have the working area Posted on every job :thumbsup::laughing:


18 & _OVER_? Sounds more like a reminder sign for bouncers at a strip joint... :whistling :laughing:


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

pcplumber said:


> I had one more encounter that was very strange with a 15-year old very cute Japanese girl and her father. I was giving an estimate to install water pipes in the home and the father opened the bathroom door. The girl was getting out of the shower with no towel and she yelled at her father. The father told me not to pay any attention and to continue going in the bathroom. I walked out, but later when we worked inside the home for two days the girl constantly kept coming out of her bedroom with only her underpants on and was making believe that she was going to get past us without us seeing her. I had to stop and ask myself if this girl had the potential to say someone touched her because she wanted more attention than we wanted to give her.
> 
> I had one more small encounter when a 15-year old girlfriend of my daughter was at my home. This was another short, stocky and not pretty girl who was not my type. I was walking down my driveway with a battery-operated drill and I jokingly pointed the drill at the girl and pulled the trigger. The girl told my wife that I touched her breast with the drill. I told the girl that she was never allowed to go onto my property again and that was the end, but sometimes when a girl's parents get involved the situation can get very ugly i.e. the Mc Martin case where the poor guy spent 5 years in jail and lost everything he had.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that Asians and Europeans have different attitudes towards nudity than the americas have.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

There is enough **** I have to worry about during the day without having to worry about someone else's kids.

I'm not the babysitter I'm not working in your home alone with your kids.


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