# I didn't do it



## Sportbilly (Oct 4, 2006)

jarhead0531 said:


> Maybe the better question to ask it, why would an electrian carry around brown thhn?? Is it used on commercial jobs??


If the commercial job uses 277/480 volts. Yes.

Have I ever seen a house running on such? No, but others might.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

mdshunk said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> Ya.
> 
> davitk, you're not an electrician I hope.



uh, no.

My electrician looked at it this morning, he figured the HO was running too many appliances at one time and burned the main. It looks like an upgrade will be required before any warm towels are handed out; bummer, it sure _looks_ nice hanging on the wall.


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

Was the HVAC breaker plugged in next to the main?

Around here, AC breakers are always burning bus......buses.....bus's....busi.....the things the braekers clip to :jester:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

220/221 said:


> Was the HVAC breaker plugged in next to the main?
> 
> Around here, AC breakers are always burning bus......buses.....bus's....busi.....the things the braekers clip to :jester:


Busses, plural of buss. :thumbsup:


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## Sportbilly (Oct 4, 2006)

neolitic said:


> Busses, plural of buss. :thumbsup:


As opposed to Buses, which is the plural of bus.

Hope that clears it all up:jester:


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## jarhead0531 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks Sportbilly, I was beginning to wonder how long it would be before someone answered me. I have never worked on anything but residential, or USMC avionics. All 120V, only difference being 60 or 400hz, and lots of DC.

Does code specify that brown wire be used on 277/480 circuits?? Are these typical used on three phase equipment? Would an inspector fail an inspection on that panel with brown thhn in there??

Sorry for all the questions, just curious.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

The typical phase colors for 480 are brown, orange, yellow. There's no code on that, but just typical convention.


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## Ponsse (Dec 12, 2007)

Just remember BOY (B rown, O range, Y ellow)

And the main didn't burn up because the HO was using too many appliances, fire the elec. that told you that. The main breaker and buss is sized so that won't happen, it was most likely caused by a loose or dirty connection from the main to the buss.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Ponsse said:


> Just remember BOY (B rown, O range, Y ellow)
> 
> And the main didn't burn up because the HO was using too many appliances, fire the elec. that told you that. The main breaker and buss is sized so that won't happen, it was most likely caused by a loose or dirty connection from the main to the buss.


In his defense I may have quoted him wrong (and of course my mind made the leap that a damp basement may have corroded the inner workings of the breaker); he was surprised the main didn't trip. In order for my feeble mind to wrap around this one and still possess the ability to convey a sense of urgency to a disappointed HO to spend yet another 2,000.00 to upgrade to a 200 amp service, well, this remains my understanding but please educate me further. You are stating a loose or dirty connection likely caused this, so same potentially could happen on any of the circuits, and just happenstance it manifested at the main?

Again, I am not an electrician, just a nailbender. If I was I would be _much_ smarter


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## Ponsse (Dec 12, 2007)

Look at where the damage is, it is right where the breaker attaches to the buss. At this point there shouldn't be any voltage drop to create heat (watts) on a good connection (there is no perfect connection so there will be a slight R, but not anything to worry about). If the breaker was bad and not tripping, I would expect to see the case of the breaker all discolored and distorted, and the service conductors insulation should be hardened and cracking.

This is very common and it is why industries hire conpanies to do infrared scans on their electrical systems approx. every 6 months. Big Bucks!


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## Hawkeye_Pierce (Jun 19, 2006)

Mount the towel warmer in the sunlight. Done deal!


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> Busses, plural of buss


But it plugs into the bus not the buss, so...............buses.


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## TrblShooter (Oct 28, 2008)

Looks to me like that main has been replaced (incorrectly) before.
Most main breakers in panels that style..Challenger, ITEs, Seimans etc
Have a bolt that goes through them (between each breaker) that mounts the casing of the whole 2 breaker unit securely to the frame of the panel.
If the main was replaced with just a 2pole 100 breaker and not a specific 2 pole Main breaker, then the only thing holding that breaker in was the tabs it held to the bus bar with and a small plastic piece on the other end.

During it's re installation it can be hard to get them to hold on to the buss while you are installing the wires in the other end, which could explain the "loose" fit on the buss side. From the installer trying to "make it fit".

Yes there is a reason breakers designated as a "Main Breaker" for certain panels cost a bit more then a 2 pole breaker of the same size and make.:laughing:

I'd have to agree with Ponsse on this one..loose connection to the bus bar, from improper breaker installation. Which caused the breaker and bus to overheat. 
The breaker also failed (probably from the over heating) and didn't do it's job (shut off), but that can be expected when it is installed improperly


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## TrblShooter (Oct 28, 2008)

> Anyway, looks like the panel is full. Don't know if you can get tandem breakers for that kind of panel and swap some out, I've never seen that type before.


Tandems are the work of the Debbil!! lmao
I wouldn't be surprised if Curad was the general manufacture of all tandem breakers and sold them to other companies to market them :laughing:
But hey, some ppl like that new bandaid smell hehehe

You do know most panels have designated areas where tandems are allowed, right?
Some only allow them at the bottom, some allow them anywhere and there are some that do not allow any at all


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

TrblShooter said:


> You do know most panels have designated areas where tandems are allowed, right?



There are a lot of "electricians" that have no idea about that. Some don't even care about it even after you tell them about it. Some even think it's ok to use a flathead and hammer to get the damn thing attached to the buss. And that's not even mentioning matching manufacturers of panels and breakers. Temperature ratings? :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> Some even think it's ok to use a flathead and hammer to get the damn thing attached to the buss.


 
Or needle nosed pliers


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## SonoranShocker (Oct 28, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Or needle nosed pliers


 
Yeah I had a boss a few years back that would use tandems to solve every full panel problem. We used primarily square D (homeline) and he would just knock off a little bit of the plastic and the wire that KEPT you from addding it to the panel. I always thought it was bad ju-ju...but what are you going to tell your boss when he is convinced that he is saving the customer some money. (Until the house burns down that is, or they want to add something else...lol):no:


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