# Underlayment Preference



## PacNWStructures (Oct 1, 2007)

I was wondering what type of underlayment you prefer for tiling. I prefer Durock on both walls and floors but was wondering what other systems you use...


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

Hi,

My favorite CBU? Well, my favorite is PermaBase, after that whatever is available if I have to use a tile backer for walls mostly. Ob floors I try to use Ditra whenever possible. It's better than CBU's for floors, easier, but it does cost more.

Jaz


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Ditra.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

DITRA! :thumbsup: on floors, durock on walls.


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## CCSowner (Nov 9, 2007)

Durock floors and walls.


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## [email protected] (Jan 22, 2008)

Wire mesh or ditra , I agree with durock on walls only .


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

I recently used a substrate called Green E Board, which is a magnesium based cement board. Lots of bumf about it being easier on the environment, less embedded energy, it's made from industrial waste fly ash etc. I have no idea how long it may hold up because it's new, but using it was a joy. You can cut it with hand tools, power tools or score and snap. You can score and snap an 1/8" off over 4'! I was putting a floor down so was using the 1/4", but they make 1/2" as well for walls. It's light- you can one hand a 4'x4' sheet no problem.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

Hey Dogg,

Can you explain what you mean by wire mesh for floors? What products do you like the best?

Jaz


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

Schluter Ditra on a floor.....unless its a natural stone, then I usually like to pursuade the client that we should float the floor level with deck mud. Then you have a nice flat even substraight to work off of.


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

JazMan said:


> Hey Dogg,
> 
> Can you explain what you mean by wire mesh for floors? What products do you like the best?
> 
> Jaz


Sounds to me like he is using a self leveling mortar poured over a wire mesh on the floor but I could be wrong


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

If I gave my favorite product, most in here would be holding crucifixes up at me, but my USUAL underlayment is Durock.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

I like DensShield on walls and Ditra on floors


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## PacNWStructures (Oct 1, 2007)

So Ditra sounds like a favorite among most on floors. I picked up some info on it and sounds pretty interesting. So you put it right over plywood with thinset, then tile right over? Anyone ever had any problems with it?


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## css (Jun 26, 2007)

You just cant beat old fashioned concrete or in this case durock. I have replaced both ditra and hardi backer floors on what seemed to be a good install. However as i have mentioned before with ditra you have to smear thinset really fast and then get all of the ditra in the thinset before it overglazes or you are bonded to nothing you may as well put a piece of visquine down and go for it. I have also replaced ditra in wet areas where the water that penetrates the tile and thinset has been stuck in keyholes with nowhere to go and this is a mold breading ground. Just nasty.
Hardi i have replaced because of 1 the board itself delaminated (layers seperated) causing tile and or grout to crack or come loose. 2 the simple fact of water obsorbtion. cement (thinset) is always better with a slow cure. if the water is drawn or sucked out two fast the thinset wil shrink and or crack causing the tile or stone to do the same. Never had any of these problems with durock. I've been installing for 19 years.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I like DensShield everywhere. Even got a pallet of 4x8 sheets to hang walls, had to special order the whole pallet. I wish they stocked 4x8's, then they would also have 4x4's on hand.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Anyone have any experience with EasyMat?


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Anyone have any experience with EasyMat?


I tried to use the peel and stick version, wow :blink: wasn't much fun messing around with it ditra is still king.


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Back last spring there was a change in management at the local Dal warehouse, so they had a "contractor's night to introduce the new management, as well as having reps from all the manufacturers whose products they carried present. The big thing the Custom rep was touting was the Easymat. He gave me a 40 foot roll to try out. 

I gave it away.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

Imagine if you tried it out Bill,

you could have answered Mike Finely's Question.


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

DAMN!! I missed out!

(actually, in an offhanded way, I think I did.  )


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

JJC. 
I only got to read the first paragraph.
*But I knew the rest would sum up the job*

Great work, man.

Call me sometime when you want to drink southern wine.
You can do a reverse address of my phone number in the white pages too.
Then all you need is a map and some tanks of gas.

Some tile setters build bridges. Others build things for people.


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## K_Tile (Feb 10, 2006)

This may answer something? I had this saved from 6 years ago:thumbup:

From Davis Gobis, Technical Director, Ceramic Tile Education Foundation

Why Does TCA Represent the Tile Industry in the US?

The United States Government recognizes Tile Council of America as representative of the ceramic tile industry in the US. It is the recognized reporting agency of statistical data independently collected. It hosts three ANSI committees A108, A118, and A137 as well as representing ANSI on the ISO TC189 committee on world standards. As secretariat it organizes and pays related meeting expenses to formulate industry documents. It does not itself set any standards or determine any test methods. Any individual or organization can propose standards. The meetings are open to the public. Test methods must be proposed to and approved by ASTM. All voting members must approve standards. Any negative vote will render the proposal mote. These meetings and make-up are audited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) for balanced committee make-up. Once a standard is established it becomes the property of ANSI. A balanced committee consisting of regional and national organizations representing those involved in the ceramic tile industry composes the TCA handbook in a similar fashion. The meetings are also open to all interested parties. Any person or company may propose a method for consideration by the committee. If recognized as of value to the industry the TCA may undertake further research to establish validity, as a service to the industry. It has one vote on the TCA Handbook committee. In the 2001 the TCA proposed eliminating any reference to proprietary products. The reason for this request was to maintain a balanced independent document by not promoting one product over another. In the future separate books will be published listing products approved under ASTM test methods relative to the various published methods for backer boards, membranes, and sound suppression systems. The TCA methods serve as minimum guidelines for a given method. Using proprietary products or using proprietary methods endorsed by a given manufacturer may alter them. The TCA also maintains a legislative liaison to represent the tile industry in legislative or regulatory matters in Washington, DC at a substantial cost per year. Tile Council of America invites active participation by qualified individuals.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

MattCoops said:


> JJC.
> 
> *Call me sometime when you want to drink southern wine.
> *


Now I get it. This might explain Matt's posts as of late


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

K Tile, Nice Reference.




PrecisionFloors, These colors don't run.


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## [email protected] (Jan 22, 2008)

Been using wire mesh installs for 15 years have never had a call back??
Must be lucky . Hmmmmm


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Must be. I was also doing installs for many years over 1/4" plywood with no callbacks when I got to talking to Dave Gobis from CTEF and he informed me of the problems that had been realised with reference to using 1/4" ply as a tile underlayment. 

I don't know where you are in Maine, but have you ever heard the name Paul White before? I used to work for him, and between me and one other mechanic, we took care of all his custom residential work. Every job I worked on was over 1/4" Multi-Ply. I won't use it again, though. Before I knew, that was one thing. I, too, was lucky. Now, though, if a project were to come back and bite me on the butt, it'd be my own damn fault. 

Why learn from your own mistakes when there's no need for it?


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Been using wire mesh installs for 15 years have never had a call back??
> Must be lucky . Hmmmmm


Cupan Custom Tile and Paint of 4105 Woodcreek Ct *uses and abuses* only the finest man-like maid products in her industry.

Take Aqua-Tix for example, her epoxy tastes sweet, and lasts for over a decade!

P.S. I hope I didn't miss-pro*noun*ciate any verbadage.

Oh, and by the way, for all my Tile BUDs: I *own* the face of MINE OWN self-employed, hom_ based business.
Let me take a picture for you, least you never forget:


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

*Not to poop in any one person's face or anything LIKE that.*

arty:


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

I like Ditra for floors, and Kerdi over drywall for showers. Other than that I like Durock and Wonderboard.


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

That Kerdi over drywall is another one I have a problem with, even though Herr Schluter has given his blessing. I'm not worried about moisture permeating thru the membrane, but what DOES worry me is the thought of a nice warm shower on one side of that membrane, and a nice COOL void on the other, which of course would cause condensation on the cool side. Now, with that condensation forming between the Kerdi and sheetrock, don't you think that over time that sheetrock's going to deteriorate? I've already gone round and round on this over at John B's forum. No one agrees with me, but no one can contradict the reasoning, either.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Bill, I would think that moisture would have to be present in the first place for condensation to form. Whether there was a Kerdi shower on the other side or not. In which case that home owner would have bigger problems than a water proof shower.

Your theory does sound interesting though, I'll have to give it some thought.


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## bujaly (Dec 16, 2006)

MattCoops said:


> Cupan Custom Tile and Paint of 4105 Woodcreek Ct *uses and abuses* only the finest man-like maid products in her industry.
> 
> Take Aqua-Tix for example, her epoxy tastes sweet, and lasts for over a decade!
> 
> ...


What the fuck??? Were you effing high on PCP when you said this? WTF are you talking about?


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

HS345-- Moisture is ALWAYS present in the air, unless you're in the driest of deserts, and even then it is, just not in appreciable concentrations.



> Were you effing high on PCP when you said this? WTF are you talking about?


that wasn't even the worst of his posts from last night.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

I think he's been spraying paint without protection...Maybe?

Jaz


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

If there happens to be a particular user that bothers you, click on their user name and choose "View Public Profile". In the "View Profile" box on the bottom right, you'll see a very helpful link called, "Add XXXXXXXX to Your Ignore List". Click that and problem solved. :thumbup:


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hey there Angus. What exactly does that ignore list do? 
Does the ignoreee not show up when viewing a thread?


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## K_Tile (Feb 10, 2006)

HS345
I put you on my ignore list. when I look back at this thread this is what it reads on my screen.


HS345
This message is hidden because HS345 is on your ignore list. 

You are no longer on my ignore list


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

what if you ignore yourself ? :tongue_smilie:


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Might as well-- everyone ELSE ignores me!!

I don't get NO respect!!


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