# rent to start?



## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Happy fathers day guys. This is my first post so I will introduce myself and tell you a little about me. Name is Brian Hay and I'm from Alberta Canada. I'm 31, grew up around heavy equipment and been an operator in the industry since I was a teenager. Most of my time has been on the bigger iron doing large projects like roads, subdivisions and canals. my wife is an operator as well and travels with me. We have decided to get started on our own now and have been working on getting a Spider hoe (kaiser walking excavator). We have spent the past few months putting a great business plan together and trying to get funding in place. Our lenders love the plan and we have been conditionaly approved. They will give us 30g for startup cost (this was VERY hard to get. my ex made a real mess of my credit) but we are shy 10g in equity to get the full amount to buy the machine. I'm considering using the startup funds to rent a machine (conventional there are no spider hoes to rent) to get started. Any thoughts on this? Would I be out of line advertising for general excavating/earthmoving and then renting whatever machine the customer needs? Or would it be beter to choose a specific machine and then find work for it? Any input at all will be greaty appreciated, thanks.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I don't think I would rent, from what I've seen rental rates are almost 4 times the monthly payment for a large piece of equipment. Most equipment manufacturers have there own leasing/financing division, premium may be higher, but it can help you re-establish the credit you need, and the leasing company still holds title to the equipment till the end.

Welcome to the site, and happy Fathers Day to you as well


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Renting cost ALOT.

My company is different then yours as excavating is not how my make money but every job has excavation.

If i need a machine for a week i will rent. If its any less then a week its cheaper to sub out.


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

Hey Brian,

Happy Fathers Day, and welcome.

I don't think you customer will care (or even know) where you get the equipment from, as long as you show up and do the job right. Many contractors rent equipment all the time, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have tens of thousand of dollars in a piece of equipment that you can't make a return on. We had a backhoe and small dozer, worked fine for 85% of our work, but when the situation called for it we rented bigger iron as needed.

I have downsized considerably in the last few years, but still rent equipment as needed. Just figure it into the bid. Nowdays I basically rent mini-ex's, skid-steers, and JLG lifts when needed.

It will also open up your options for a while, you won't be limited to only work a hoe could do, or stuck if a project calls for a bigger or smaller machine. When you get enough money saved you can buy the spider, and still rent other equipment as need, but at least you will have a cash reserve in the beginning while you are getting your name out there. Leasing might also be an option, as with the slow economy, I am always getting mail from dealers offering attractive rates.

I've only seen a spider once, a power company up north was setting poles with it, looked really cool. 

Your wife being an operator is cool too. Nice having something like that in common. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Kaiser themselves do not offer lease options but Terex markets the Kaiser machines with their paint on it and they do. But their markup is outrageous. Its way cheaper to buy directly from Kaiser and the customer support is way better deaing with Kaiser. I tried for a lease on a good used machine I found but was denied becouse my credit is not strong enough. That was before I had the 30g startup funds in place though so maybe I would have beter luck now.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

That's one crazy machine. 
http://www.kaiser-fahrzeugtechnik.at/archive_detail.php?id=297&lang=de


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Thanks for the welcome and words of wisdom guys. I like your way of thinking Mike. Maybe its not a bad thing that I got denied the lease/loan for the spider. Renting is expensive but like you say it will let me do a lot more with a smaller initial investment.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

I went to the heavy construction show in Abbotford BC a couple weeks ago and met with Roger of Kaiser Canada. He let me try out the new machine he had at the show and his own personal machine in his back yard. It is by far the most amazing machine I have ever been in. Even the old one he has (84) for personal use on his acreage was a very impressive machine.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Hi Brian, welcome to the E&SW forum of contractortalk.com. 

Would you want to elaborate on your plan. What is you target market for work? How much work do you already have lined up? How are you set for tools and support equipment? How will you transport your machinery? Are you and your wife going to have jobs outside this work? How long is your season? How readily available are rental units through the entire season? If you could explain the situation and plan there are enough people on here who have gone through this already you could get some good advice.

We've rented machines at times since 1980 when rentals really just started. It is a very difficult thing to rent and make money.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

....got quiet in here. I know there are some very knowledgeable people reading this. Good bad or indifferent I realy want to hear from you guys.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Just to add to my other questions.

What would be the average length of the jobs you are looking at?

What is the chance of delay ( for any reason) on the jobs you would be doing?


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Hi Brian, welcome to the forum. I was going to ask you a question or two but I think Denick has covered everything. :w00t: That's a nice looking machine but looks pretty specialized. Is the work you have lined up in your area abundent for this type of machine? Ok while everyone is away having dinner, tell me, who's the better operator ........you or your wife ? :whistling :blink:


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Thanks Denick
Well my business plan is 100% focused on the Spider so if I can't get it I have to re work everything. I have not lined up any work for a Spider yet but have done a very extensive market research. I will be the first in Alberta to offer Spider Hoe services so I don't realy want to market the machine until I know for sure I can get it. If I line work up for it and end up not being able to produce the machine in time to do it someone else will. The jobs we will focus on when we start will be the stuff noone else wants to or can do. The spider can work safely on very steep slopes, 6 feet of water and is capable of getting into very tight spaces. We will market to the ski hills, private land owners and developers. Two ski hills near us are doing some major developing and the largest mountain resort in Canada is being buit here (5 year 1.5 billion dollar project). As for renting a machine my brother has an insulating business a couple hours north of me that is doing very well. He has a very large area he works in and contacts with many commercial and residential developers. He says they are having a realy hard time finding anyone to dig for them. They are often waiting months just to get a basement dug. So that could be a good place to get started. Wife and I are both going to be working just on the business for as long as we can. If money gets to tight though there are tons of empty seats here and we will work for someone else for a while if we have to. The slow season here is between dec and feb. To start with we will be hiring someone to move the machine. For the Spider I'm considering two options for a truck. It will climb into the back of a dump truck on its own no prob. But I also was considering a single axle tractor and small end dump. I found a 96 International cabover with a realy short wheel base. I was thinking about a 22 foot end dump. Given the short wheel base of the truck it would be very maneuverable and then I can also pull a flat deck for other equipment as well as have a little bigger hauling capacity for light materials. Gravel would to heavy to fill it to capacity but on demo jobs and spring cleanup for the town the extra capacity would be great. We are starting from scratch so as of now we have no equipment.....ummm did I cover it all? lol


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

LOL I'm the beter operator now but I dunno about a year from now. I'm realy proud of how well she is doing, she is a natural. When we met she was an office type working for Microsoft so I wasn't sure how she would take to this line of work but she loves it as much as I do.
The Spider is specialized but it does good wherever you would use a track machine as well. The one I'm looking at is a ten ton machine with 132hp (new ones have 157) 18 foot digging depth and 28 foot reach. It hase five auxilary hydraulic lines for a very large range of attachments.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Brian,

As I think about your situation the question I have is, do you have any experience on the Spider Machine?


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Here's a crazy idea... can you borrow/rent the Kaiser rep's personal machine? Have you approached him about that? That would pretty much guarantee him the sale on the new machine when you get a little bit of cash built up.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

No I have only got to try them out. I don't have any real experience on them but neither does anyone else. I will be the first in Alberta to have one and there is only a handful of them in all of Canada. But I don't think it will take long for me to be comfortable on it. Except for the leg movements the rest of the controls are the same as Cat. Leg movements on the machine I'm looking at are four levers on each side of you (new ones have them on the joystick). I was litte worried that the learning curve woud be large, but after trying one I was surprised how easy it was to catch onto. I'm not worried anymore. I felt very comfortable in it and it didn't take long before I was moving the legs without having to think about which lever to pull to acomplish what I wanted to do.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Brian,

What work could you get tomorrow? Not an if.

Are you well known where you live?

Do you personally know GC's, PM's Builders, Officials? any one that can help you get a job tomorrow?


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Nothing crazy about that idea. I'm sure he would let me if I asked him. Only problems are how far apart we are. Its 14 hours through the mountains if you only stop for gas. As well his machine is realy old. It only has two wheels with no power to them so it very sow moving, you have to pull yourself around with bucket


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Yes I am very well known not only where I live but throughout western Canada. I have been working in the industry since I was a kid. I live in the very southwest corner of Alberta next to the BC and US borders. Until recently there realy hasn't been much happening here. Everything has been North of me so I have worked mostly camp jobs as far away as the Arctic circle. In my travels I have met a lot of people and they always remember me. I have never been the type of operator that's just there for the paycheck and don't care. I am very out going and never pass up an opportunity to learn. I pick everyones brain I meet and try to get involved with everything I can. Everyone is always trying to steal me from whoever I am working for. I personaly know several gcs, md and town foremanes, puplic works super intendents and engineers. Before I had my startup funding in place I was approched by a couple different developers here to do some digging for them so I will be talking to them again. As well I will be talking to my brothers contacts, they could likely put me to work right away. All of Alberta is realy booming right now. There is a very serious shortage of contractors everywhere. For me getting the funding is a way a bigger challenge then getting the work.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Brian, 

Do any of these contacts have work for the Spyder? What machine could you put to work tomorrow? Do you or your wife have a speciality? Does anyone have need for your specialty? Who are the guys with the most work in your area? what do they do for bread and butter work?


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

I notice you spelled spider with a y. Do you know these machines? I've never seen it spelled that way except for people who know the machines. I can get work tommorow for either a Spyder or a track hoe. What I realy want to do is the Spyder. I'm only going to rent a different machine after I have exhausted all options to buy the Spyder. There are opportunities here to get into almost anything a guy wants to. The terrain is very diverse. To the South and West of me is the mountains. Foothills and mountains to the Northwest and praries to the east. Some of the major projects going on or expected to this summer are. A $40 million metal extraction plant. $1.5 billion mountain resort (largest in Canada). $35 million condominium development. $23 million water/sewer infrastrucure extension. $70 million upgrade at the Shell gas plant. Several wind farm projects ranging from $40-111 million. In the forestry we have a major pine beetle outbreak that Alberta has put $50 million towards fighting. A new 347km $100 million transmission line to accommodate the wind farms. After its complet its expected to stimulate another billion dollars woth of wind mills. A new open pit magnatite mine. Two ski hills doing major upgrades. Lots of road building and upgrading. A bunch of creek work to repair flood damage and creat new fish habitat.....the list goes on that's just a few. This is all within a half hour of me and in an area where nothing significant has happened for a very long time. There are way more contract opportunities then there are contractors. All of Alberta is booming like this right now.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Wow, this thread is blowing up. 

The only time we rent machines is for a hammer machine. You can't make money renting equipment unless you can use it 40hrs/wk and get paid for those 40hrs. I honestly don't know why you would want that machine. It doesn't seem practical to me for general excavating services. To me, a trackhoe is the way to go.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

I don't realy want to rent but I'm having a hard time getting financing or a lease. Lease would be my first choice. For normal digging yes a track hoe is the way to go but I wanna go for the jobs that no one else wants. Steep slopes, in the water, mud and confined areas. I went to a heavy construction show in Abbotford BC the other day and the spyders were the star of the show. There was a steady flow of people wanting to know who to talk to to hire one. There is a bigger market for them then I first thought. I got to meet several guys there that already have them and they are totally swamped in work year round. Great bunch of guys. I learned more from them in those two days then I could have in a year figuring things out on my own.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian with what you describe for work potential for this type of machine where you are located I wouldn't hesitate to go for a new machine. Go rental purchase for 8 - 9 months where the majority ( usually around 80% in my experience) of the rental would be applied as a down payment on the machine. Get skip payments for months Jan. - Mar. and stretch out the payments for 5 - 6 years. This should get you a good start with a machine that will be reliable with no downtime, hopefully. Good-Luck!


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

If I was able to buy a new machine that would be a great way to go about it. But kaiser doesnt offer any rent or finance options in Canada yet. They are just getting started here. As far as I know the new machine at the show was the first new one sold in Canada. The guy that bought it paid cash. Its his third machine already in less than two years. I can't go through a lease company because my credit is not strong enough yet and I don't have much for equity to borrow against. My ex is the vendictive type and realy did a good job of destroying my credit. I'm getting realy close to having the funding together for a used one though. Its a 92 Kaiser x4m owner operated with 5300hrs on it.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Hey Brian can you put up a link that shows the specs. on the machines. I'm starting to have second thoughts, but that's just my opinion. Look's like the machines are on the small side. What can you get for per hour for that machine? It looks like a novelty, granted it can climb a mountain like a yak from (where ever they're from :laughing but what normal size excavator can you compare it to ?


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Its only 10 tons but it has a 19.6 foot digging depth, a 27 foot reach, 132hp and they claim 12125 pound lifting capacity at 10 feet. I'm told that with a realy good operator it will keep up with a Hitachi 200. The hydraulics have two speed settings on them and the one I tried out moved as fast on the slow setting as any normal excavator I have ever been on. The going rate for them here is between 175 and 240/hour Canadian. That's about 137 and 187 US. I think the guy billing 240 is way to high. Operating cost are cheap. All the guys I talked to said they only burn max 80 bucks worth of fuel per day and they say its the most dependable machine they have ever owned. Next to never have any major problems or breakdowns. It won't let me post the link. Says I have have 15 posts or more before I can. I will try again I will again afer I have 15. You can also Google kaiser Ag if you want. Then go to downloads and download the S2 pdf and the specs are in there


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

...post number 15


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

http://www.kaiser.li/content.php?SiteId=46&lang=eng


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

http://www.menzimuck.com/en/produktegruppe/zubehoer/film.html
This is cool. It not Kaiser but its the same type of machine. There I a ton of videos in here of the. working.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

lol looks like I need to proof read before I send my posts. I'm using my cell and the signal here is week so I send them out quick as I can while I have a signal.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

....been a while now since anyone has replied to this post so I guess its finished. I want to thank everyone for their time and input. Its very much appreciated. This is a great place and I'm sure I will be a regular around here now so hopfuly I can pay it forward and help someone else. I won't be much help on the bidding end of things as this is new to me. I have been moving dirt for about 14 years but until now it has all been for someone else. Most of my time has been on large projects with the big iron. I have a minimum of 6 months seat time on every machine on all kinds of projects in all types of conditions. I have many years on dozers (mostly cat and jd) and scrapers (terex ts 14 cat 627, 631 and mostly lead operator on push pull 637E and G). If I can help anyone out in those areas feel free to pm me. Thanks again everyone and have a great day


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian let us know how you make out with the machine that you want. Oh BTW, Rino wants to know if you can post a picture of your wife operating an excavator. :whistling :laughing:


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

lol she hasn't been on an excavator yet but she is realy looking forward to learning ours when we get it. I will keep you updated and post pics when we get started.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

OK :thumbup:


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

yeah, pics would be nice


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Gee Brian,

You seem impatient for reply's. It sometimes takes weeks to get all the thought out for discussion. I have so much to do right now I am not checking in very often.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Hey Nick im realy sorry if I seemed impatient. I realize you guys are very busy and I realy appreciate the fact that you would take the time to talk to me at all. It realy says a lot about the type of people you are.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian don't mind Denick, once you reach his age it takes you a while to ponder something and come to a conclusion. :w00t: Hopefully he won't forget what he was pondering about.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

lol well maybe he is partialy right though. I probably did seem a lil impatient. Time is just dragging on for me sooooo slow right now. Every day feels like a week...that may have something to do with the fact they are so long. Its 5am and I'm still wide awake. Been lucky to get 3 hours sleep a nite for quite some time now. I'm so close to getting started yet so far away. I just have a couple of minor things to work out and I'm on my way. I'm the type of person that when I have a problem to solve I can't leave it alone until I figure it out. I can't seem to shut my brain down long enough to rest latley. I will almost be ready to sleep then I get an idea and I'm wide eyed again pondering it. I've always had sleep problems though so its nothing realy new. Used to like it when I was younger. Made for great pay days. I was always working camp jobs with no real limits on how many hours I could work. I'd work my own shift and then at least half the night shift.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Nick has 3 grown up daughters. You have to forgive him because he has been through estrogen hell for over 20 years now.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

That exlplains a lot LOL


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## Cherryhill_cons (Mar 6, 2007)

For the renting part of the question I put it this way. I could of rented my terex Hr42 for 1800 a week plus delivery to the site ( 120 each way) or I could buy one for 2200 a month. So If i am on a job that lasts a week I could pay 2040 for the machine or $550 if I own it. That is a nice little chunk of money in your own pocket as to the rental companies pocket. Another thought to ponder is the ownership costs of a machine- ie maintenance , break downs, floating etc. Either way it is much better to buy. If you have the work i would recomend rent to own. It costs alot more but the machine is paid of much quicker.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

What you say makes good sense. As well there are some great tax benefits to a rent to own type deal that offset the extra cost.


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## Cherryhill_cons (Mar 6, 2007)

On a side note quick question for you. I am from Ontario but with the boom out west i was seriously thinking about heading out there to start my business. I do mostly small excavating and earthmoving( Basements, land grading, havent done ponds yet but want to, drainage ditches, and site prep and soding) Is there a market for this out there ? and how could i get ahold of people so if possible i could have work for when i moved out there? Thanks!


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Yes there is a demand for that all across Alberta. Here are a few web sites you may find useful. Albertafirst.com -all kinds of different stuff in here and links to other good sites. vendor.purchasingconnection.ca/default.aspx. -a place to find current tendering opportunities. merx.com -public and private tenders. Info on public is free but private requires a subscription. coolnet.ca - same thing with this one. sourcecan.com - another place to find tendering opportunities as well as lots of other good stuff like partnering opportunities. You can find large contractors looking for subcontractors. As well try googling the newspapers in the areas you are interested in. All permits that are issued are public info and posted in the papers. That way you can find out who is doing what and where. Also google the areas along with words like -development, excavating, subdivision, clearing ect. That's how I found out about lots of the projects that are happening or planned for my area along with contacts for them. I hope some of this is helpful to you.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Brian,

Do you or your wife have any business experience? Or business schooling? Do you have a really good construction law experienced lawyer? An accountant that knows construction accounting? Do you have a system to start tracking your actual costs and be able to compare them to your estimated costs. 

I'ved lived this business from the day I was born. My family has known many, many contractors. I can tell you with certainty. The things above are more important than anything you can do, know, own or rent period!!!!! Read that last sentence over and over. 
If I could I would grab and shake it into everyone who comes on this forum and asks about starting a business.

Gee I started this posts to address the real costs per hour or day of renting and owning.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

No Nick I do not have any business experience or schooling. My wife does have some post secondary (office administration) but not alot. She has no major degree or anything like that. And I was not fortunate enough to be born into a business. Does this meen I am going to fail? Maybe. Does it meen I should not try? No. If I do fail on my first attempt I am a young man that is not easily discouraged. I will learn from that experience, get up and start again a wiser man. Who founded your business? Your Father? Grandfather? Did he have any experience when he first started?
Yes I have spoke with both a lawyer and an acountant. The best ones I could find, referred to me by friends who use them for their construction business. Yes I have a system for tracking my costs. And until I have my own numbers to work with in this system I have spoken with several other contractors who use the same machines as I want to get to find out what it cost them to operate. As well all public tenders after they have been opened are public info. I have amassed a large library of these and will use them to help me with my estimates in the beginning. As well it took some real hunting but I found a detailed list of the actual average cost of every aspect of every public project in Alberta broken down into regions. I know that can not be taken as gospel but it sure will help as a starting guidline.

I don't need to know everything to start out. I never will know everything. I am constantly learning. If I waited until I was 100% confident that I knew everthing I needed to know so that I could not fail I would never get started. I think I am going to be just fine. My way of thinking is - I can not know everything. But I can surround myself with people who are more experienced and or smarter than me. And together there are not to many questions we can not answer or problems we can not solve. - I have an outstanding group of mentors/advisors and almost anything I need an answer to is only a phone call away. And now with this new found resource here, maybe just a post away. I am very sure I could learn a lot from you and I'm looking forward to any knowledge you may be kind enough to share with me. Sofar the closest you have come to answering my original question is to say that it is hard to make money renting. You said you have done it though. How?

Yes I did start this thread with the original question "rent to start" but I don't realy mind that it has gone off topic some and I don't think anyone else does either. I only started it a week ago and its already one of the most popular threads. I think there are a lot of people enjoying it. Even if not everyone is posting it sure is getting read a lot. I would like to keep it going even if it does get off topic. I think it would be cool if people could read it from start to finish and follow my successes and failures as well as the advice I get along the way. I think lots of other new guys could realy benefit from it. What do the rest of you guys think of that?


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## Vermaraj (Mar 6, 2007)

There is a spider excavator for sale on Ebay. Listed today.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Right on. Thanks


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Wife and I just finished a bookkeeping course we have been taking. Nothing major, just the basics. Got a lot out of it though. Enough that our books won't be a complete mess when we hand them in to someone who realy knows what they are doing. The accountant I spoke with suggested that we use a bookkeeper throughout the year and then have him do our year end for me. To use the accountant throughout the year would be way to expensive and not realy necessary for a business as small as ours will be in the beginning. So that's what we will do (real bookkeeper not me)


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

This may be a little off topic but it does have lots to do with having business experience/education before trying to go out on your own. This is an article from this weeks issue of a popular central Alberta news paper about an annual gathering of employers that my little bro was asked to speak at. http://www.mountainviewgazette.ca/news4.html As you probably guessed Mike Hay quoted in the article is my bro. When he started out he had zero business experience or education. Never even finished high school. And to top that he didn't even have any experience in the field he chose. He is now a very successful well respected business man in the community. His territory covers a lage portion off central Alberta and he is gaining more ground every day. Very proud of him. He is kicking some serious a$$.

Edit: The article has been replaced with a new one. I should have copied and pasted it.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

*Update*

Well for anone interested her is an update.

I am suffering through the longest weekend ever. We have been working with two different lenders. One gave us the go ahead last week (papers signed) the other wanted more info. Its a machine they have never heard of so they want to know it is worth the money the vendor is asking. I found enough to satisfy that question....then the vendor called me and the machine we have been gunning for sold to CP Rail :sad: DAMNIT!!! But it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I talked to my friend with Kaiser Canada and he found me a better machine in the same price range. Only draw back is its in Switzerland working and we cant get it here until October. But...oh well we have waited this long and the upside is that its coming from Kaiser so we know what we are getting. The second question was if the machine is not working how will we make the payments. So I went on Canada's job bank and printed off all the operators positions that have been posted in the past month for operators in Alberta, about 350. I can call any one of those and be working tomorrow...no mater what happens I can make the payments no prob. We get our final answer Tuesday....

I have some time to kill now...anyone have a seat for me? lol You can have me for a good time but not along time lol


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

Hope ya get it Brian - Good Luck!!!!


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Thanks Mike....only about another 24 more hours and I should have my answer  ....oh man a kid waiting for Christmas morning has nothing on me right now :laughing:


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

Tick...........Tick............Tick...............Tick................Tick.....................Tick...................Tick.......................  Tick......................... Tick...........................Tick........................Tick............................. :furious: Tick...........Tick............Tick...............Tick................Tick.....................Tick...................Tick..................... 
I hear ya! :thumbup:


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

:w00t: WE GOT IT :clap: 8 months we have been working at putting this together and it all finally fell into place :thumbup:


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

:clap: :clap: Congradulations Brian!!!!! :clap: :clap:

Way to go! Now you can bring it down here and do my garden........ :laughing:

Post some pics when you get done playing with it.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Go get 'em Brian!:thumbsup:

Glad this has worked out for you. 
I hope you can make a few coins with this machine before the weather stops you, or the payments come due.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Good Luck Brian !!


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Thanks guys :thumbup:

Well here she is, our first machine :clap: These pictures were sent to me by Kaiser. It's actually in Switzerland right now and it will be about a month before I can take delivery here...gunna be a long month lol
She is a 1996 Kaiser X4M Turbostar with 6500 hours. 

That is kind of a downer that I'm getting her just in time for winter. But one lender gave us skip payments in the winter. The other payments I worked into my working capital so I have it covered. I have about a month to line up work before she arrives and I'm thinking if I don't get enough lined up around here she will be getting off the boat on the west coast so maybe I will just keep her there for the winter. There is lots going on and they don't get winter like we do.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Figured you guys might enjoy this collection of pictures.
Need to add a quick disclaimer first though :whistling

These are NOT my own pictures. A few of them are Rogers from Kaiser and the rest I found on the internet while researching these machines. If any of these pictures are yours please let me know and I will remove and or credit you for them. 

Here is the link

If you click the little icon on the left under the Gallery logo a menu will slide out with a full screen slide show link :thumbup:


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Couple of them pictures looks like Nick's hillside job. :w00t: :laughing:


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

I didn't realize how many I had until I started uploading the album. 97 pics almost 24 megabytes :w00t:


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## edddyjoe (Nov 25, 2007)

Hi Brian,
I have been following your story. I want one. That would be the ticket around here. GOOD LUCK


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Hey, right on :thumbup: thanks edddyjoe


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

*Spyder Hoe has arrived!*

It finally got here today and I put a few hours on it. It is all I had hoped it would be and more. Kaiser is really top shelf. They fixed it up good as new down to the finest details. Even put a new stereo in it for me.

Edit: date stamp on pictures is wrong.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

!


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Nice, good luck ! How did you get into it to unload it out of the trailer, looks like a tight fit. Least they saved on having to tie it down. :w00t:


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Great pics. Post up some pics when you get her on your first job.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Nice looking machine.
Looks warm enough there to start using it right away.

Good luck with it!


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian maybe it's already been posted, but I'll ask again . What does that machine weigh ?


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Go get them Brian. Good Luck.

Send pictures of the first dollars of income.

When do you start work?

Is your wife (poor woman) getting one this year?


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Climbed in through the front window to get into it. We didn't need a ramp to unload it but my buckets, a couple other peoples buckes and a couple pallets had to come out first. So we used the ramp to get a bobcat in. I love that pic of it in the container, shows just how tight of an area I can get into with it. Looking at it outside the container it does not look like it would fit. Learned some neat tricks today in tight areas. I had it in the bush, no room to swing. So you drop one side right down and pick the other side up so it almost feels like your gunna lay it on its side. Its still stable though and you can swing it around in hardly more than the width of the machine. Or you can pull one leg in and send the other out at the same time and the whole machine side shifts to give you some extra room. Took her down into some really swampy stuff too. My big tires only had about the top 8 inches showng. Pulled through with no effort at all, cleaned up my tracks and there was hardly a sign I was ever there....any other machine I'm sure I would still be there lol

I'm out on the west coast now. They don't really get winter here, It rarely drops bellow freezing...I could get used of it here.

It weighs approximately 18,500 pounds. The new ones are a little beefier and weigh around 20. I'm going to scale it first chance I get and I'll post the exact weight.

I go to work on Vancouver Island as soon as I get there. I'm at Kaiser Excavators in Mission right now. There is a 20 acre playground I'm making use of to get comfortable with it before I go. There is bit of a learning curve to it as you can imagine. There are the regular cat controls plus another 16 functions for the legs and 4 butons for auxiliary functions on the joysticks. A pedal for the drive wheels, another for the extendahoe and another for the swivel (90 degrees of swivel on any attachment I use)

I will be taking lots of pictures to post. I would post more tonite but its to hard. I'm on my cell phone and it keeps going out of service on me. It took me almost an hour to get those last ones up. 

We will see how I do with this one before we get another...I'm sure we won't stop at one though. Its been about a year since we started going for it and we finally got it. What a great feeling. It's a good thing I'm so stuborn, I wasn't giving up on it. It has been a long hard road sofar...and the journey has only just begun.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Here is a couple of shots inside the cab :thumbup: There are 2 buttons on the front of each joystick not visible, 2 more bellow the right joystick and a lever to the right used for steering when roading it. The digital display is also covered by the key chain, I will get better shots later.

Update: 
Turns out the contractor that was so gung hoe to sub work out to us when it got here was all talk. Three months I kept him updated to were it was at and kept good to my word. I didn't book anyone else, lesson learned. But it may turn out for the best as another HUGE environmental company has asked if I would like to work with them on a project in Victoria. Bid closes Wednesday and we will start about the tenth if we get it. 
In the mean time though our machine is still in Mission and I'm just itching to get out and work it. We need a trucking connection on both the island and the main land as we don't have our own truck to move it yet. If someone in the neighborhood is interested in doing our moves for us I would like to hear from you.
Contact me
I would like a price to get it to the Island or being that it's sitting anyways I would consider swapping work with it for a ride. Work on the main land or the Island. That could be a really good deal for both of us. You could get a cheap demo, likely all of our moves after that and we get some exposure for our machine.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Here are a few more shots from the other day. I think I broke her in, not so shinny anymore :whistling


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

I had some fun in the mud with her :thumbup: Even though I got her in deep enough to get the engine compartment dirty :blush: I was not even close to being stuck  I really need a camera man. When I was in the best positions for a picture I couldn't get out. I was ether hanging by the seat belt or the mud was to deep (didn't want to sink up to my waste)


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

I sure hope you're going to give that baby a bath. :w00t::laughing:


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## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

Brian, I just gotta say, that is cool. Really freakin' cool. I just read through this thread and got the back story on you getting this machine (and wandered through the slideshow) and I'm impressed. The machine looks like it will crawl up a sheer mountain face (loved the pics under the bridge!), you are stoked to get it and take on projects others wouldn't, financing fell into place, the machine's better than expected... it's always nice to read some good news. 

Right on, man!

Mac


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

I sure am Joe :thumbsup: Man she is FILTHY inside and out it's going to to take me a full day to clean it up  But what can you do when it's that muddy eh

I'm sure glad I didn't get discouraged and give up Mac :thumbup: Wow we went through some hard times trying to get it...still going through some. But the future has never looked better and I absolutely love what I do. I'm sure that will show through in my work and we will have happy customers. I will do whatever it takes to make this venture a success.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

This is our first customer http://hazcoenv.com/ we start work with them on the 11th near Victoria on Vancouver Island :thumbup:
They found us through my website :thumbsup: They are an excellent contractor and I'm looking forward to working with them.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

BrianHay said:


> This is our first customer http://hazcoenv.com/ we start work with them on the 11th near Victoria on Vancouver Island :thumbup:
> They found us through my website :thumbsup: They are an excellent contractor and I'm looking forward to working with them.


:thumbsup::thumbsup: Good Luck with them Brian.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Thanks Joe,
We got started on the project on Wednesday and sofar so good. It's a challenge to say the least, after this poject everything else should seem easy :laughing: On Friday one of the supervisors from another area with Hazco visited our site, Domenic Frei. He used to be a Spyder Hoe Operator in Switzerland and really misses doing it. I handed the controls over to him for the day, he was happy to be in the seat and I was happy to get a lesson from an expert as well as some great pictures of our machine in action. The pictures with the Operator wearing Orange are him and the ones with no operator or from inside the cab are me.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

.....


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

......


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

.......


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

...........


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Looks pretty neat, Bryan. Glad to see you working it and making some money.

What exactly is it you're doing in these photos...cleaning the moss off the rocks?


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Hi tgeb
Back in the early 1900's there was an insinerator there as well as an old dump site. We are cleaning all the contamination off of the bedrock and trucking it away. It's a great project and I'm really enjoying it. It's on the Naval Base on Vancouver Island overlooking the ocean. 
The pictures really don't do justice as to how steep or high up it is but check out the one picture I took from inside the cab. Notice how close the stick is pulled in and my boom is as low as it will go, that kinda shows how steep it is.


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## frnkswheel (Feb 19, 2008)

*spider*

that's a bad machine

are you billing that job by the hour? Just not sure how you would bid something like that, considering the terrain. Do you have a per cubic yard # on rough terrain? From FL so that is foreign to me. How much weight is in the ass end of that thing?


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Hi frnkswheel
I believe the prime contractor is getting paid by volume of excavation but for us as a sub we just gave our hourly rate of $175.

There is no counterweight on it, just uses the legs for stability. You can sure nitice the difference when you try to lift yourself. Without the counterweight your lifting the full weight of the machine.

Here are a few more pics from yesterday. I gave my camera to one of the laborers and he got some good shots of me. I'm off for a few days now while some poles and things like that get moved and the trackhoes bulk out what they can from the top.


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## WLMLLC (Feb 21, 2008)

Congrats Brian

I just read through this whole thread and it was a very inspiring story as im trying to get my own business of the ground as well. Keep that machine busy and good luck to you:thumbsup:


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Right on WMLM :thumbsup: Thanks, and good luck to you as well


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Somewhere back in this thread I think I had said that I would get some better cab shots and pics of the mechanical end of things. I took them a while ago now but keep forgeting to post them. Here they are


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

..........


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

........


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

..........................................


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Brian I like all the buttons, pedals and levers. I could have a blast in there. :w00t::laughing:


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

To bad we are so far apart Joe. You could take a holiday and come try it out.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Real nice Brian, does it come with a translator for all of that German or whatever?

I see a speaker on the right console, does it have a radio?


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Been a while since I looked in on this thread. Thanks tgeb, nope no translator lol although the book is in English as well as German. It has a really good cd player in it and I have a satellite radio as well.

Here are some random pictures from recent projects and a bit of an update.

After the Hazco project things were really sloooow, it didn't mater how much I advertised and went out to meet people it was not getting the phone to ring. Then I got a small project in a good residential area and people got to see it actually working. Once people seen me in action with it the phone started ringing and I am getting busy now. 

....I have to resize the pictures, I will do that and post them soon.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Looking through my pictures not all of them are to big to post :thumbsup: So here are a few from my last little project.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

........


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

more.....


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

more yet....


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

............


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Been a while again since I posted any pictures again so here are some more recent ones. This is my first rock wall I ever built. I am really proud of it, customers love it. The picture of the view from up top really does not do justice. They have a magnificent view of the ocean and mountains from up there and are going to build a deck.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

This is what I am working on right now. I have the whole yard, front and back to make into something really nice. First I dug out the old lawn in the front that was not doing so good, brought in some good topsoil, planted a little monkey tree and some new sod. I should take another picture now that the sod has taken and we cut out a little island around tree. The first picture is a before shot.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

Inland Kenworth-Parker Pacific in Nanaimo brought out a new Case 420ct for me to demo on this job. I used it to bring in the topsoil for the sod on the lower level. What a sweet machine, we will be adding one to our equipment list in the near future.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

We got the the sod laid on the lower level already but I have not taken a picture of it yet. Here is a couple before shots of the back yard.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

I am building another step up on this project as well. I was planning on being done already but my new PowerGrip bucket is late  The rock for this wall is much larger then the last and it's granite so it's really heavy. I am sure I could do it without the PowerGrip but if I wait for it I can probably place them better and it will be safer as well. I'm not comfortable wrestling those big buggers above their home when I cant hang onto them properly. I have ended up losing work because I will not pull out on them until I am done. Sure I could get er done and get out of there but I would rather wait and do it right. They are great customers and really aprecieate my attention to detail so far and the fact that I won't just slap it together and leave.

Here is a shot of one of the bigger rocks I will be building with. I normaly wouldn't lift it at full extension unless absolutly nessasary but I just wanted to test it out and see i I could. Nothin to it, machine didn't even grunt :thumbup:


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Looks like nice fun projects you are working on Brian. Hope you are making some $$. Keep up the good work....and keep posting photos.


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## Hole (Jul 14, 2008)

*same boat*

cool machine


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

It has been quite a while again since I updated how things are going or posted any pictures. So to start here is a cool gif of me climbing over a wall I built to get back out of the yard.










As far as how things are going....not good, not good at all. Work has all but stopped. I took a job up in Fort MacMurray operating someone elses machine because nothing was happening here and of course as soon as I got there my phone started to ring people wanting my machine at home. So I rushed all the way back, worked a few hours and the biggest job I rushed home for got put on hold. So here I sit again pondering, do I stay or do I go back...I just don't know. I am going to stay for a little while but not long. If I don't find something for my machine to do really soon then I have to go so I can make the payments.....


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