# Snapping and popping noises in the night...



## rjconstructs

pz pull a piece of sheetrock, check for active termites, that is a sound I've heard in the past. I didn't believe it at the time.


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## Chris Johnson

Definitely not termites...they are silent guests

Expansion and contraction is my 2 cents. A 1/16" movement can cause this. Normally on long spans of roof trusses we use a slide type clip/hanger to allow the truss to be secure but allow for movement.

Remember to, your in L.A. So day time temps under direct sunlight can make items feel 100+ degrees, at night that all goes away and can drop to under 1/2, so that's why I'm on the expansion and contraction thing


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## TimelessQuality

Are the walls SIPS? My home is and it really is noisy when the sun goes down


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## MarkJames

I think you need to sleep in the attic to localize it even better. 

Sounds like framing. Just this house? Maybe they were shooting blanks for a bit and a stretch didn't get nailed/fastened off enough....adding to expansion/contraction noises.


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## jaydee

not sure how loud the noises are in real life.

but, wow, that's going to hard to find,

have them start a log book. maybe ?

date, time , temp outside, cloudy , maybe..

that a tough one, the cure is sure to be time consuming and expensive to find.

Maybe poke around looking for rubbing spots, maybe sawdust in that area

Good luck.


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## Katatonic

builditguy said:


> My smarta## answer would be to tell them its ghosts.


Or they used bubble wrap for insulation.


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## pzeiler

Chris Johnson said:


> Definitely not termites...they are silent guests
> 
> Expansion and contraction is my 2 cents. A 1/16" movement can cause this. Normally on long spans of roof trusses we use a slide type clip/hanger to allow the truss to be secure but allow for movement.
> 
> Remember to, your in L.A. So day time temps under direct sunlight can make items feel 100+ degrees, at night that all goes away and can drop to under 1/2, so that's why I'm on the expansion and contraction thing


Not that the termites themselves are making noise....but the damage they've done is causing more movement than should be.


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## rjconstructs

I guess we would find out if he takes some rock off and looks. Ive heard the popping sound before and it was termites. They are not silent.


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## CarpenterSFO

If you or someone else were getting paid contractor money to fix it, you'd just tear off the sheetrock, find the problem, and fix it, instead of messing around with this theory and that guess.

Don't mind me, I'm just sitting here waiting for the caffeine to kick in.


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## Rio

rjconstructs said:


> I guess we would find out if he takes some rock off and looks. Ive heard the popping sound before and it was termites. They are not silent.


Wow, those must have been some bad a$$ termites really going to town to be able to hear them chomping away, maybe the dreaded Formosan termite?

From an article on the little buggers:
_In addition to wooden structures, the pest devours live deciduous trees and other woody plants. According to termite control board director Ed Bordes, about 30 percent of the city's live oaks and cypress trees are now infested.

Even more frightening, this six-legged sneak is legendary for penetrating cement, brick, plastic, and other obstacles to get to food or water sources. A veteran of the Formosan termite war, Bordes has seen it all.

"We've seen trees fall on trucks; we've seen trees fall on buildings--all infested with Formosan termites," says Bordes. "They'll eat the seals out of high-pressure water lines to get to the moisture inside." _


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## pzeiler

Chris Johnson said:


> Definitely not termites...they are silent guests
> 
> Expansion and contraction is my 2 cents. A 1/16" movement can cause this. Normally on long spans of roof trusses we use a slide type clip/hanger to allow the truss to be secure but allow for movement.
> 
> Remember to, your in L.A. So day time temps under direct sunlight can make items feel 100+ degrees, at night that all goes away and can drop to under 1/2, so that's why I'm on the expansion and contraction thing


Agreed wholeheartedly.


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## pzeiler

CarpenterSFO said:


> If you or someone else were getting paid contractor money to fix it, you'd just tear off the sheetrock, find the problem, and fix it, instead of messing around with this theory and that guess.
> 
> Don't mind me, I'm just sitting here waiting for the caffeine to kick in.


It's not that easy though...I have to tear off the drywall in said locations, be there at 2-6 AM and up on a ladder to see if I can maybe put my finger on where the issue is happening. It's not like I'm going to hear a pop and see a joist move an inch or two. We're talking 16th's or maybe less.

Secondly, I'm dealing with an HOA....they want a whole idea as to what's going on before anyone touches a hammer, sawzall or whatever, they're responsible for the "structure". Then they have to approve the estimate, etc.


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## pzeiler

BigPoppa said:


> We just dealt with a similiar issue where the house was a two story modular and made all sorts of noise. Ends up the home installers flipped the soffits down but never fastened them to the house. So everytime the wind would blow the soffit would pick up and periods of high wind would slam it down hard and loud. All the movement ended up popping the truss plates which if they are more than 1/32" separated from the truss member consitutes a failure. Expensive repairs. I would guess that you are having the same type of issue caused by wind uplift which could be more pronounced on a flat roof than a gable. the gable has an opposite truss pushing back whereas the flat roof truss does not. Check for cracking at the wall to ceiling junction and don't fasten drywall to top plate, hold last screw back 6" from corner on ceiling sheet and wall sheet. Other than that, good luck? Sounds like a good reason for some exploratory surgery....


I'm not a drywaller, so what's the idea behind keeping the screws 6" from all corners? To allow movement and not crack the drywall if movement exists?


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## CarpenterSFO

pzeiler said:


> It's not that easy though...I have to tear off the drywall in said locations, be there at 2-6 AM and up on a ladder to see if I can maybe put my finger on where the issue is happening. It's not like I'm going to hear a pop and see a joist move an inch or two. We're talking 16th's or maybe less.
> 
> Secondly, I'm dealing with an HOA....they want a whole idea as to what's going on before anyone touches a hammer, sawzall or whatever, they're responsible for the "structure". Then they have to approve the estimate, etc.


I deal with HOAs all the time. They're exactly the same as any other customer - either they're willing to spend the money to solve the problem, or they're not. Your difficulty is that it's not "an" HOA, it's your HOA.


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## pzeiler

CarpenterSFO said:


> I deal with HOAs all the time. They're exactly the same as any other customer - either they're willing to spend the money to solve the problem, or they're not. Your difficulty is that it's not "an" HOA, it's your HOA.


Ok then....well I like to research an issue and get ideas before I kick someone out of their place while re-construction is being done. Research time spent now is well worth it in my book to see what might be happening before I open everything up and find a can of worms, (or termites) for that case.


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## BigPoppa

pzeiler said:


> I'm not a drywaller, so what's the idea behind keeping the screws 6" from all corners? To allow movement and not crack the drywall if movement exists?


You got it. Trusses suffer from wind uplift more severly than a traditional assembly of ridge/rafters.


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## mrcharles

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have ghosts.... possibly goblins, but you won't know for sure until you get the engineering back.....


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## WBailey1041

Buy this, http://www.amazon.com/Extech-407730..._sim_hi_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0CFCEEN6Q6NT50YDV055

Set it to record minimum and max levels over a 5 hour period. Set it up in different areas until you have located the general area. Then demos small section of drywall and repeat to verify.


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## pzeiler

WBailey1041 said:


> Buy this, http://www.amazon.com/Extech-407730..._sim_hi_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0CFCEEN6Q6NT50YDV055
> 
> Set it to record minimum and max levels over a 5 hour period. Set it up in different areas until you have located the general area. Then demos small section of drywall and repeat to verify.



I can point at the general areas....but it's not just one point. Listen to the audio clip in the YouTube video I posted. Some of them are multiples...some near each other, some not, but most along the same area. 26K estimate going in front of the HOA in 20 mins. We'll see what they say.
Lotta money to quiet a cranky homeowner, although he's an attorney, so that kind of money would be eaten up by fighting him in court in a heartbeat...winner or not.


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## fjn

Call the Ghost Buster " hotline.:laughing:


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## AndyWRS

I wouldn't be able to sleep either, that is quite loud at times. 

Screwing the drywall sounds like a good first step.


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## CarrPainting

the wall you think the noise is coming from.... you say its a second story exterior wall?

whats next to this wall? Neighbors?

cause to me, that sounds an aweful lot like either a bb /pellet, or airsoft type sound...

you say this goes on all night? Whos to say someone isnt shooting the exterior wall with bbs/pellets to mess with the guy?


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## pzeiler

CarrPainting said:


> the wall you think the noise is coming from.... you say its a second story exterior wall?
> 
> whats next to this wall? Neighbors?
> 
> cause to me, that sounds an aweful lot like either a bb /pellet, or airsoft type sound...
> 
> you say this goes on all night? Whos to say someone isnt shooting the exterior wall with bbs/pellets to mess with the guy?


Every night like clockwork someone stays up and shoots it every 20-30 mins or so....for anywhere from 3-8 hours at a time because they're bored, and they never take a night off??? I'm going to doubt that the old lady across the way has an airsoft, or bb gun....

NOT an exterior wall. It's an interior wall where most of the noise is coming from, and it's load bearing, holding up the ceiling joists to the flat roof. The sound is coming from within the wall and or ceiling cavity. I think it's just loosened wood to wood connections over 40 years time of expansion and contraction, and when the "movement in the wood happens, it pops, bit by bit, like any other house creak...but for whatever reason, this is much louder.

To make the situation even better, now that the management company knows that I'm in on this and doing my best to figure it out, they've given my name to a lady down the street in a different complex (identical buildings) who is complaining of the same issue. Fantastic, now I'm going to be known as the noise fixer guy. The really specialized and expensive one! :clap:


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## RandyB1986

This is strange. I have a guy having the same problem in a custom home near Indianapolis. My guys only does it when windy. I have checked all the framing in attic and found nothing. I don't know what causes it.


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## TimelessQuality

Is the plumbing up there? If so, it may be the hot line cooling down during a period of non-use.

Could leave a hot tap running overnight to see if it stops...


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## pzeiler

TimelessQuality said:


> Is the plumbing up there? If so, it may be the hot line cooling down during a period of non-use.
> 
> Could leave a hot tap running overnight to see if it stops...


No plumbing there.....nowhere near.... and a much different sound than that. Listen to the audio clip that I posted a link to on an earlier page.


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## pzeiler

RandyB1986 said:


> This is strange. I have a guy having the same problem in a custom home near Indianapolis. My guys only does it when windy. I have checked all the framing in attic and found nothing. I don't know what causes it.


Read the earlier posts about others having the same issues when windy. This isn't wind related.


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## Fault Current

Are you sure that there are no rats, squirrels, or raccoons up there getting active at night? 

Just make a hole and check it out, of all the theories probably one is right, but only one way to find out.


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## pzeiler

Fault Current said:


> Are you sure that there are no rats, squirrels, or raccoons up there getting active at night?
> 
> Just make a hole and check it out, of all the theories probably one is right, but only one way to find out.


Nope...it's a structural noise. Like when any house creaks and pops on occasion...just LOUDER....much louder than usual. i.e. a tad bit more movement.


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## m2akita

So the main thought is that it is expansion/ contraction. I believe you said the homeowner does not heat the house, and the downstairs was cold in the morning. You could try running the heat at night to prevent/slow down cooling, and see if the sounds are still there.

If the sounds disappear or are reduced, then that would give more support to the expansion/contraction theory. Does not help with how to fix the problem unfortunately. Tell him he is going to have to sleep with the heat on:laughing:


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## BigPoppa

I believe you said this was a flat roof and the noise seems primarily from the interior load bearing partition where two sets of roof trusses break.

What color is the roofing, I am assuming white/silver however a black roof coating would provide an enormous temperature differential from the hot exterior, or top chord, and a much cooler conditioned space of the bottom chord.
The resulting equalization overnight would result in quick releases of built up tension in the truss webbing. 
Can you access the truss plates to see if they are popping out of the wood members?

I also would not rule out wind uplift.
Even a small breeze will cause uplift and it doesn't have to actually lift the truss so much as just lighten the load which would cause some flexing and movement. 
I believe the forces are greater on a flat surface than a pitched roof. Especially since it seems to come from a break point between truss sets. 
If the bottom of one truss lifts slightly then the gap at the top of the truss is amplified in relation to the truss it is adjacent to.

This is probably a very small distance but more than enough to make the sounds you are referring to.


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## CarrPainting

meh i live in a house thats 100 years old, and it never makes noise.

on the other hand, the 2x12's in my shop roof will bang when it gets REALLY cold outside...


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## BigPoppa

I would take that 100 yr old house with its true dimensional lumber over anything new built.


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## pzeiler

Ok, so I've made now a "baseline" recording from which I can now measure forward progress. It was an almost 11 hour recording made last night from 7:45 PM to 6:30 AM. The temps here yesterday were 73 for the high and 60 or so for the low, with an overcast afternoon yesterday, so not a huge temperature difference to support my "thermal expansion and contraction" claim. I clipped most of the dead air out of the recording and made it down to a 2 min 45 second recording where all of the noises occurred. More of the same as last recording, but I counted 91 occurrences last night.

Now on to phase 1 of the hopeful repair to see if it helps. Pull 3 feet of drywall along the mostly suspected wall, screw and glue (polyurethane foam subfloor adhesive) every connection I can get to. Then re-drywall and screw the crap out of existing drywall, then measure the noises again. Next, if this doesn't work, the top comes off, closed cell spray foam, and re-deck (glued with ring shank nails) and re-roof..

Turn your volume up to get the full effect of what it sounds like in reality..

Audio can be heard here: 
http://youtu.be/IXa9mmjWR6M


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## PrestigeR&D

All I heard was clicking....

I was waiting for the crack -then- pop....


Now if it was -click-crack-pop ........


That's a whole different subject....:whistling


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## pzeiler

PrestigeR&D said:


> All I heard was clicking....
> 
> I was waiting for the crack -then- pop....
> 
> 
> Now if it was -click-crack-pop ........
> 
> 
> That's a whole different subject....:whistling


click, crack, pop...whatever. It's all of the above, but definitely a poltergeist if you ask me. I was waiting to hear laughing kids voices in the recording during the middle of the night. The kids that were murdered there back in '64 by Old Man Potter..
Or a dark voice saying "get out!!!"


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## jimwalter

I would first take a recording with the drywall off. No point putting drywall up if you might have to continue digging.


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## pzeiler

jimwalter said:


> I would first take a recording with the drywall off. No point putting drywall up if you might have to continue digging.


Continue digging? What could I do further? Remove the framing? That won't work so well.


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## TimelessQuality




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## pappagor

turn on the heat at night it will go away i bet:clap:


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