# Prefab Homes and Modular Homes



## Peter_C

terrymod said:


> Thank you in advance for your kind thoughts and hope this perspective helps.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Terry


Terry, do you have a website and videos available? I would like to learn more about your business. Sounds like your plan is working since you made it through the last recession.


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## going_commando

terrymod said:


> Some thoughts on Modular and Prefab: I have been building since the 1970's , yes that makes me old. I built my first modular home as a builder in 1984. I opened my own plant in 1998.
> 
> I would like to discuss some of the comments posted here:
> Modular Positives:
> The Market of Buyers for modular homes is mostly rural or 2nd home - due to lack of labor or high priced labor and more expensive materials and short building season due to weather.
> 
> Another type of buyer has been Urban Infill- who seeks Modern Design and wants an Eco Friendly product.
> 
> 1) As a builder I have had a small crew that is cross trained and did 90% of our construction -
> 
> 2) I opened because I wanted more control over the process, training and reduced management time - I got tired of waiting for subs to show up and did not perform the way I wanted.
> 
> 3) We have systems in place for specifications, materials and labor methods.
> 
> 4) Generally speaking - modular homes are framed and drywalled much better because the modules have to be picked up , loaded on trailers, travel at 60 miles an hour and then get lifted again on the foundation. That means they must be stronger to withstand that. (Try that with a site built house - it would fall apart.)
> 
> 5) Our cycle time is about half the time to build compared to a site built custom. (Not comparing to a production builder) We are a Custom Builder
> 
> 6) Financing- One comment above talks about 5% down. Again, 5% is for customers buying mass production builder products - Generally Custom Home buyers we build for need 20% equity ( Usually they have that in their land)
> Banks love us, modular, because we build faster, material does not get stolen.
> 
> 7) Building Codes: Modular homes are built to each State's code- which means if I build in New Mexico I follow their state codes. States in our area have reciprocity such as Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico. They honor our license and inspection authorities.
> 
> Colorado State codes supercede local county codes - means I can ship anywhere in the State without having to get a county permit and inspection by each county. I have to know wind and snow loads of each county and build to that.
> 
> Modular DOES have to follow private covenants - such as masonry, roof, style, etc.
> 
> Modular MFG holds all the licenses, GC / Plumbing, Electric / Mech.
> 
> 8) Process: Better control over the product, finishes and schedule.
> 
> 9) Delivery and Set: The Success of a Modular home is the installation. This is where the industry does not do a great job. Many factories sell through Dealers and then the install is handled by "Stitch SubContractors". There is a hand off that causes problems alot of times between the Customer , Dealer and Factory.
> 
> We sell direct - As far as I know our company is one of the few that will do a total "Turn Key" project for the customer from Excavation , Foundation, Install to Final CO
> 
> 10) Costs in Production Factories: the enclosed factory have large overheads. They beat us on materials by 10 % and their labor is around 12-14%. With a mechanized plant a 1500 sq ft home is built in between 300 and 400 man hours in a matter of a few days.
> 
> Our labor is 1230 man hours which equates to 30% of the hard cost. We compete in the higher priced market and don't have a huge overhead- more like the average Custom Site Builder.
> 
> NOW for the BAD -
> 1) STIGMA- the industry has done a poor job of distinguishing HUD homes from Modular Homes. HUD is a national code ( "Your Double Wides") vs Modular is governed by each State's building code.
> 
> Customer's , builders , have a "stigma" against modular homes. We always have to stress we build better than "Site Builders" .
> 
> Customer's seem to like the idea of Panelization better- but once you put the whole home together in a finished module - their "Stigma" is aroused. Panelization really only speeds up framing - the project still needs alot of subs to finish the job.
> 
> Building Departments: Local building departments and the codes are probably a large impediment to the industry. Building officials - are very slow to adopt anything new,unless it means their job security.
> 
> Our state housing authority is really pretty good, inspectors are accomodating and much faster at permits than local counties.
> 
> 2) Industry Structure: I truly believe that the MFG / DEALER / SUB INSTALLER tier is the biggest problem in the industry. Most customers have not been through the building process and do not know how to manage a home project themselves. There are alot of "hand offs' between trades and often it is not clear that Customer's need to take care of foundations, arranging cranes, setting the home and getting final inspections. It is not clear when the home has problems - say cracks - who is to do repairs?
> 
> The average dealer does not do a good job of project management - like a custom site builder does. (That is one of the reasons why I got into the industry)
> 
> 2) Shipping: Modular Sections have travel limitations - We build to a max height of 12' 6" from bottom of rim joist to top of fold down roof.
> (One of the comments above said that they could not find anyone to build a 10 ft ceiling. We can do that - our standard is 9 ft )
> Most of our Roofs are 6- 8 / 12 pitch and are folded down for travel.
> 
> Width: Modules ship in Colorado on average less than 17 feet wide and less than 66 feet on average. We have shipped 19' 6 inches. It is not going down the highway but, turning corners in town.
> 
> 3) Final Finishes: the success of a Modular project depends on getting the finishes on site done well and fast. We always start with the outside - get the roof finished, siding, and trims. While exterior work is being done - local mech / plumber and electrician hook up the systems. Then drywall, interior trim, painting and flooring is finished.
> 
> A good modular project should take between 2 wks to 4 wks to finish after crane set to final inspection. Most Modular homes consist of 2-4 modules and a good crew can set modules on foundation within a few hours.
> 
> Finally: Like all business models - there are plusses and minuses. My Company suffered like many in the 2008 down turn ( Colorado went from 13 mfg's to 3 and it has been slow to come back)
> 
> Once our staff relearned modular framing / methods and learned additional trades they seem to like having the same shop to work in where they don't have to haul all their tools - more diversity in their work , etc.
> This has made my life easier to manage the project.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your kind thoughts and hope this perspective helps.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Terry


Why can framing and drywall and such be done "better" in a factory than in the field? The only difference I can tell is weather related, but if care is taken then I really don't see how a site built house can't use the same methods and come out to similar toughness, regardless of whether it came to the site in a pre-assembled box or individual pieces. I hear this line all the time, but I can't really see what makes the modular home process better/tougher than a house built by a solid custom crew.


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## 91782

> 4) Generally speaking - modular homes are framed and drywalled much better because the modules have to be picked up , loaded on trailers, travel at 60 miles an hour and then get lifted again on the foundation. That means they must be stronger to withstand that. (Try that with a site built house - it would fall apart.)


Nothing brought that fact home to me better, than when a tornado passed through our area a few years back.
http://photos.mlive.com/flint-journal/2012/03/oregon_township_residents_deal_9.html


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## Peter_C

SmallTownGuy said:


> Nothing brought that fact home to me better, than when a tornado passed through our area a few years back.
> http://photos.mlive.com/flint-journal/2012/03/oregon_township_residents_deal_9.html


I am not sure if you are saying the modular shown above was strong or weak? It held together vs most of the tornado shredded houses we see on the news. The foundation mounts failed.

Living in earthquake country that basement foundation would NEVER be allowed. The house has to be tied into the foundation far more substantially. Same house different foundation and tie ins probably would have been just fine, although the forces may have ripped the roof off, since the house wouldn't give. 

How is this even allowed? The blocks aren't filled and there is no rebar? What was the house tied too? (Non pressure treated wood too?)









With lots of tie downs that house above would have gone nowhere. 









From the article you posted this guy from a different house left me giggling. :laughing:
'I've had some strong storms but that's by far the worst.' 'I had cold beer and was able to watch basketball all night,' Norman said after hooking his generator up after the 15 minute storm passed his house.


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## 91782

Peter_C said:


> I am not sure if you are saying the modular shown above was strong or weak? It held together vs most of the tornado shredded houses we see on the news. The foundation mounts failed.


I'm saying they are STRONG. If that had been a site built, stick framed house, it would have been just a pile of sticks.




> Living in earthquake country that basement foundation would NEVER be allowed. The house has to be tied into the foundation far more substantially. Same house different foundation and tie ins probably would have been just fine, although the forces may have ripped the roof off, since the house wouldn't give.
> 
> How is this even allowed? The blocks aren't filled and there is no rebar? What was the house tied too? (Non pressure treated wood too?)


No question it was a sub-par foundation and tie-down.












> With lots of tie downs that house above would have gone nowhere.


I don't thick they core-filled anywhere on that foundation.












> From the article you posted this guy from a different house left me giggling. :laughing:
> 'I've had some strong storms but that's by far the worst.' 'I had cold beer and was able to watch basketball all night,' Norman said after hooking his generator up after the 15 minute storm passed his house.


Well, we're in the Thumb of Michigan - nothing happens without beer.


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## fjn

Well,let me say this,I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'M not a stick builder or a modular builder however,to me there are somethings I have garnered over the years that seem may be the best of both worlds.

Having been a long time subscriber to JLC (just short of their inception)many articles weigh in on the topic at hand. First off,one article basically stated,if you are a stick builder and do not have a shop large enough to build components like large wall assemblies,floor systems and other various components of a building and ship them to a site and set with a crane,you are missing a huge opportunity along with leaving much money on the table.Also in three separate articles over many years,they showcased building the entire roof including shingles on the ground and hoisting in place with a crane. The advantages of such a move has many benefits,among them is the obvious one,no need to wrestle material great heights,fast tracking the job and probably the best one,greater safety.


If a builder were too incorporate some of those methods,they may just have the best of both worlds. They would dodge the bullet of the huge overhead associated with a full blown factory,yet take advantage of a considerable amount of building in a closed environment and the mechanical advantage of using a crane to speed things up and reduce a good portion of the grunt work associated with the average site built building.


Just some food for thought.


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## Fouthgeneration

Site builders need to remember they are a "Manufacturer" that is located at the products final location.....

How did the Mod house that blew off its footing ever get a CoO? or pass the loan inspection?????. where is the garage? Man, what a sue fest. Maybe if they bolted the columns to the main beam....:jester:

The site builders largest advantage is there is less Uber regulation on the constantly moving small sized builder compared to geographically pinned factory shop, suffering constant federal and State interference/over site.

I don't understand why upscale homes aren't built under temporary shelters to speed production and improve quality in all dimensions. Just not having to "roll up" ones tools twice every day would increase production 5-10%.

Imagine subflooring that hasn't had 9" of rain exposure.....:thumbsup:


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## fjn

A temp. enclosure for new construction. Scroll down to bottom left.


http://allsitestructures.com/indust...v0l70aOkFyNGZn0VYuxeki-fCOlKN41nuUxoCq8Dw_wcB


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## modterry

*Website and Videos*



Peter_C said:


> Terry, do you have a website and videos available? I would like to learn more about your business. Sounds like your plan is working since you made it through the last recession.


Yes my website is www.homecraftersinc.com
I have pictures - really don't have any video
Thanks for your interest.

Terry


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## modterry

Sir - you are right that a good custom crew can do the framing and drywall. I had a hard time with subs when I covered a large geography of building. I did not like the fact they got sloppy, didn't show up, didn't finish. By having a central location to build - I control fewer people , remove 10 subs from the project. Scheduling got easier, quality got easier and building was faster for me. I hope you realize that there are always trade offs. These were acceptable to me.


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## modterry

That is exactly what I have done. I build outside - don't have the huge overhead. The techniques you are talking about can be done on site provided you have the room. If building an urban infill - the lots I work on are only 50 ft wide and we don't have the room to build walls, roofs on the ground.
Terry


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## modterry

This house is an example of several things Great and Wrong:
1) The house blown off foundation is in one piece as a testimony to the structural integrity.
2) Foundation - this is a problem I have found in the industry. The home is sold by a Dealer - he orders the house - factory builds and ships to site- then the site "YO YO" does not know how to build a foundation - What I see in the pics is no concrete, no rebar, lousy foundation - Not properly tied down to site.
This is not the fault of the modular home.
3) Either the Dealer or the home owner was responsible for that mess.

Our firm specs the foundation - usually my engineer stamps the design. I have had one home go through 150 mph in Lousiana and came out fine.
Terry


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## 91782

modterry said:


> This house is an example of several things Great and Wrong:
> 1) The house blown off foundation is in one piece as a testimony to the structural integrity.
> 2) Foundation - this is a problem I have found in the industry. The home is sold by a Dealer - he orders the house - factory builds and ships to site- then the site "YO YO" does not know how to build a foundation - What I see in the pics is no concrete, no rebar, lousy foundation - Not properly tied down to site.
> This is not the fault of the modular home.
> 3) Either the Dealer or the home owner was responsible for that mess.
> 
> Our firm specs the foundation - usually my engineer stamps the design. I have had one home go through 150 mph in Lousiana and came out fine.
> Terry


I couldn't have said it better.


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## nailomatic

MarkR said:


> These are modern prefab homes and modular homes. There is an opinion that this technology is the future of architecture for mass production. What do you think about it?


Want an answer? 

Here it is. It depends on your objective. 

Stick built is better, in my humble personal opinion. 

On the other hand, HOW it is built doesn't matter -- to the sale. 

Because, when most women walk in to a home and sees the kitchen and baths, she doesn't care how it was built. Ok ok ok. Call me whatever. I don't care. It's simply a fact. 

Plus, most guys don't understand how it was built. Doesn't matter what the guy thinks, cause he will go with what the woman says. Ok ok ok. Call me whatever. I don't care. It's simply a fact. 

All a game of percentages -- for the sale. Again, all this my humble personal opinion. Exceptions are rampant, too. Peace. 

That was easy. Next question?


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## nailomatic

Ohhhh. One other thing. In regard to durability during a tornado. That doesne't matter to the sale, either. Call the insurance company. They insured your modular. 

In short ....
Build a modular.
Woman likes the kitchens and baths.
Passed by county, mortgaged, and insured. 
Sold. 
Build another. 

Please ... before you flame me. The only house I would buy would be stick built. 

These are only my personal opinions. And, I've been drinking!


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## SerPeters

*The U.S. Market is Estimated at $20.2 Billion in 2021* (accounts for a 18.3% share in the global market). About 270+ companies produces prefabs in the USA, one online prefabs and modular homes marketplace works. The prefabricated housing market is a potential market, especially in North America, where there is increasing demand for affordable and high-quality housing.




What do you think about the trend?


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## KennMacMoragh

Advan


MarkR said:


> These are modern prefab homes and modular homes. There is an opinion that this technology is the future of architecture for mass production. What do you think about it?


People are always trying, thinking it's the thing of the future. The advantages are pretty apparent, faster start to finish times, you can start framing the house as they are clearing out the site instead of waiting. I believe it's also safer when you get into modular building, you're inside, not out in the rain, in a more controlled environment, not running around a jobsite tripping over cords. 

Things that I've seen cause hiccups:

#1. Unstable economy messes with it. When the economy is strong and you have hundreds of houses lined up then you can do pretty good if you have a contract with a large developer and you are pumping out houses one after the other. But when the economy crashes, say a plane hits New York City or Covid hits then all of the sudden you've got no work. Now you've got all this realestate from your shop costing you money. Then what do you do? Declare bankruptcy then when the economy revives you have to start all over again, and building up a modular home company can take a long time. It's easier and cheaper to start up doing on site construction.

#2. Slow overall mass production. The start to finish times are faster but when you have a developer that wants 500 houses built, they are not going to wait for your one shop to build them one house at a time. They will get as many framers out in the field as they can and build as many houses at once that they can manage. 

#3. Difficult to train crew. When you are talking about building a house off site, or in the parking lot or wherever. Bringing the completed components on site and fitting everything together like a puzzle is not an easy task, and it's not something your crew will learn over night. Plan on spending a lot of dollars trying to get a crew trained and then a lot more dollars fixing mistakes that are made when something doesn't come together the way you planned. 

I've watched how people try and figure this out. I used to do a lot of this, maybe not the kind of modular you are thinking but modular isn't real specific. I like to call it systems-built housing because there are so many different ways you can build a home other than arriving on site and nailing one board at a time. I've done panelized, manufactured homes, optimized plating, and I've learned a few tricks for framing things in more of a pre-fab stand point than traditional framing. Like framing the floor slightly smaller, not snapping out lines for every wall, not nailing your rim joist to the sub-floor until the walls are stood. There are lots of little things that can make the house come together a lot smoother when you are building in more of a components approach. Guys are usually stubborn and will only use the same techniques that they grew up on. Not only that but it takes more spatial ability, a smarter individual to picture how the house will come together in components instead of one board at a time. So good luck getting your crew trained. Then by the time you do get them trained, the economy is about ready for its downturn then you've got to let them all go. Now you're back to problem #1. you've got to start all over again. 

#4. Zoning. This is the biggest thing that I think holds us back. Years ago I went out to set up a manufactured home and traveled about half way around the state studying different zoning laws. Come to find out people are very prejudice with any kind of modular or systems-built construction. I found some really off the wall rules such as if it's built with or without a permanent foundation then you can't do it. WTH does that mean? to this day I still can't figure it out. So do you want to hire an attorney to try and get you around the legal loop holes? Do you want to buy some property and run the risk of the building department telling you that you can't build on it because of your design and techniques? I have read before that in parts of the country they are fighting things like this. I think Delware is one of them where they've passed legislation to stop unfair restrictions on modular housing. Hopefully, that will spread around the country some day. 

Despite all this, I'm still an optimist. There's solutions to these problems so I think we will see more of it, just don't know when.


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## Ayangonz




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## KennMacMoragh

Oliverelijah said:


> You are by all means right but what about foundation repair ?


Not sure what you mean.


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## Joe Fairplay

modterry said:


> 1) The house blown off foundation is in one piece as a testimony to the structural integrity.


I disagree with this premise.
The house blown off foundation in one piece is not a testimony to the structural integrity, it is testimony as to the failure of properly securing the unit to the foundation.


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