# Itemized Bill?



## woodworker (Dec 28, 2007)

I have an electrician who will not provide an itemized bill? His bill just says the dollar amount and the date of the bill. He absolutely refuses to provide any hours or materials used. And is threatening mechanics lien. Is this legal? if not, what options do I have and any suggestions.

Be easy, I am new to the forum.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Why would you want anything else?


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

woodworker said:


> I have an electrician who will not provide an itemized bill? His bill just says the dollar amount and the date of the bill. He absolutely refuses to provide any hours or materials used. And is threatening mechanics lien. Is this legal? if not, what options do I have and any suggestions.
> 
> Be easy, I am new to the forum.


You better pay him if he completed the job and passed his inspection. Once that cust. learns about the lien you are going to have a handful of problems. If an itemized bill is all you want then print one up yourself. Who cares about it?


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## works4me (Sep 1, 2007)

We need a liitle more info. Is the bill for the amount that was in the contract? If it is repair work, was a ball park price given before starting? Did he complete the job or solve the problem that he was there for? Let us know and we might be able to help some. But if you just let him in and said do it - yeah - he can charge and bill what he wants, even if you think it is "high" after the work is done.


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## woodworker (Dec 28, 2007)

I am helping a friend of the family out and he is requesting itemized bills from the plumber, heat/ac and electrician. I have never had this problem before with an electrician. If I have ever had to ask for it they have provided it. I may just have to make up one. I just didnt want to get into all that being its someone I know pretty well.


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## works4me (Sep 1, 2007)

Are you talking itemized BILL or PROPOSAL here?


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## dkillianjr (Aug 28, 2006)

Just pay the bill 


Dave


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## works4me (Sep 1, 2007)

We normally get somewhat itemized proposals, then the bill just pretty much says - work done, pay $xxxxx now.


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## works4me (Sep 1, 2007)

Yeah, if he did everything he was supposed to and its done correctly, who cares about an itemized bill - I agree - just pay him.


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## woodworker (Dec 28, 2007)

There was no contract, I have been using him for about a year now. He is actually working on a few different things for me now. Never had a problem till now. He has completed the job and the price is really high. I do plan to pay him, just caught in the middle at this point.
Thanks for the responses.


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## dkillianjr (Aug 28, 2006)

Are you a contractor or a homeowner? Was the work for you or a customer? Every job is different sometimes a small job can seem expensive and a large job can seem cheap.


Dave


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## works4me (Sep 1, 2007)

If you have a few things going with him, you should be able to talk to him. Just say the total was higher than you thought it would be and ask if he ran into any problems or if that is just what it took to do the job. Try and feel him out a little, you need to know these things ahead of time. Hopefully he can easily justify it (hate to hear he's desperate for some reason and money grabbing on you). But, again, with the set up you say you had (no contract) he can bill "very high" if he likes - that's why we have contracts - to protect everyone involved.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Define an itemized bill you would be looking for, cause if you made me give you one the price would go up, not only for the hastle but I would charge for every screw, nail, drill bits and screw bits I wore out or broke, new trowels I wanted and the list goes on...


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

woodworker said:


> There was no contract, I have been using him for about a year now. He is actually working on a few different things for me now. Never had a problem till now. He has completed the job and the price is really high. I do plan to pay him, just caught in the middle at this point.
> Thanks for the responses.


 
oops! I have had this happen. Use the same electrician a dozen times over a year or so and you always ask him to give his price first, then it happens, the one time you just tell him to swing by and knock it without getting the numbers in writing he doubles his price. I have had it happen before to me. wow...I just got an idea for a new thread.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Chris Johnson said:


> Define an itemized bill you would be looking for, cause if you made me give you one the price would go up, not only for the hastle but I would charge for every screw, nail, drill bits and screw bits I wore out or broke, new trowels I wanted and the list goes on...


Right....your driving up his cost of doing the job with the itemized bill. He's going to put more time into the job, just doing the billing...somebodies going to pay for the extra time. Ask him what went wrong, pay the man and either use him again or not, it's your choice


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

I never give an itemized proposal, but they are very specific on who, what, when, where & why. Then at the end of the job, I never give an itemized invoice, unless there are some change orders they signed and prepaid for.

I'm not about to have someone that has no idea what my time and costs are worth, dictatring to me what they think it is worth, after I have finished.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

woodworker said:


> There was no contract, I have been using him for about a year now. He is actually working on a few different things for me now. Never had a problem till now. He has completed the job and the price is really high. I do plan to pay him, just caught in the middle at this point.
> Thanks for the responses.


So, it's not a price job? He's just doing the work and billing you later? Sounds like T&M. Is this what happened? If he gave you a price on the job for labor and material, then there's no reason why he has to give you an itemized bill documenting his labor and material cost.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

check your states contracting laws....nj limits resi t&m to $500, anything above $500 requires a written contract....no contract, he has no leverage...if this is the case in your state, inform him that he will not get paid until he provides you with this information....


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## GSE (Aug 24, 2007)

First mistake was, not having a contract, for the last 30 years we have been working a contract price, that is why we are called electrical contractors, also remenber in some states if he itemitizes the bill, you will have to pay sales tax on the bill, however if it is a capital improvement job, then there is no tax. What we will do on a job like you described, is give a detail of the scope of work we did, and note any exceptions or problems, on the invoice. We do not do T&M work we are in the contracting business, not a parts house, or a labor pool.


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## Pete M (Dec 10, 2007)

woodworker said:


> I am helping a friend of the family out and he is requesting itemized bills from the plumber, heat/ac and electrician. I have never had this problem before with an electrician. If I have ever had to ask for it they have provided it. I may just have to make up one. I just didnt want to get into all that being its someone I know pretty well.


It doesn't matter what your friend "requested", what matters is what's on the contract and was there a "meeting of the minds". The fact that there is no contract is a mistake for all parties involved.

In general terms:

If a tradesman gives a job price *BEFORE* work is done, (as in flat rate or a bid), there is no itemized bill showing costs and charges, line by line. However, you are entitled to a list of services provided by the contractor with a lump sum price attached. Otherwise, how could you know what to hold him accountable for?

If a tradesman gives a job price *AFTER* work is done, that's a Time/Materials arragement. In this case the homeowners request is legitamite.


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