# Under cabinet lighting



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Got screwed on my under cab xenon lighting , went over to pick it all up and they tell me they just sent everything in stock back to Kichler because Kichler is wanting to repackage everything? :blink: 

So now I was scrambling to find another source with everything in stock, had to switch to Sea Gull.

http://www.seagulllighting.com/Linear-Lighting.htm

Problem was they thought they had everything in stock, turns out they don't have the wire in stock. I can't wait 3-4 weeks to close up the walls since that wire has to weave in and out to make jumps in the cabs that don't get the under cab lighting. They told me any low voltage wiring would work from just about any system.

I'm going with a 24 volt transformer because one run is almost 35 feet by the time it goes in and out and up and down. 

Now - can I use Malibu wiring? You know the landscape stuff sold in Home Depot? They have 12 guage wire that fits exactly in Sea Gulls mounting tracks. They are telling me Sea Gulls is 10 guage, but I'm upgrading to the 24 volt transformer over the 12 volt and I'm only talking 35 feet for consideration of drop off.

Main thing is wire just wire?


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## ABLE1 (Apr 30, 2005)

Not sure this is the txfmr you are looking at but download the Instruction Manual on this page and read Page 2. Table about wire size and length of run is important. Also it indicates that you must NOT use 12 volt bulbs on a 24 volt system. 

Funny thing is the listed bulbs do not say what voltage they are designed for, only gives the wattage. 

http://www.seagulllighting.com/Ambiance®-Lighting-9461-12.html

Good luck.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Just as an aside, I don't have the code reference in front of me, but I'm sure someone will come along with it. But unless there was a change in the 2005 code, LV cable inside the wall is a no-no.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

The voltage is not the issue, the rating is.
There is lo-vo wiring you can bury. Hell, you can use NM if you want.

I like to use CL2 rated #14 or #12 speaker wiring.


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

I am not sure if you have already ordered the lights from that particular website you linked but I will share some info on the lights I use for all my under cabinet lighting. Maybe it will help...maybe not but, thought I would share. 

I use Hera Halogen puck lights for under my upper cabinets..... heres a link http://www.eclectic-ware.com/Eclect..._halogen_lights/hera_arfs_halogen_lights.html

they also carry transformers and extension wires.....the transformer I use for the pucks are down towards the bottom of the link I posted....part number is 
*HER-ERD1 $34.79 each*


For the electrical with this lighting you dont need to stress on running low volt wires through the wall before sheetrock goes in ....just place the outlets in your upper cabinets in a few locations towards the top during rough electrical. Then when you go to install your uppers, route a 5/16" deep channel in the backside for your upper cabinet for your undercab lighting wire, then loop all your wires over to your outlets located in your uppers and plug them into the transformer...done!


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

mahlere said:


> ... LV cable inside the wall is a no-no.


Um.. no, that was never true. As long as it is rated as CL2 or CL3, you're perfectly fine. 

Article 411 of the NEC, "Lighting Systems Operating at 30 Volts or Less", permits other than chapter 3 wiring methods. Basically, 411.4(A)(2) says that if you have a class 2 rated power supply, you may use concealed wiring in accordance with 752.52. That section basically permits you to use class 2 wiring methods for that low voltage work.

I generally use CL2 rated zip cord (aka "speaker wire") for low voltage undercabinet lighting. Some manufacturers have instructions that require you to use NM cable anyhow, even though it is supplied by a class 2 rated power supply.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

knew someone would come up with the reference. I was referring to the typical LV 2 conductor zip cord used. No problems.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Just to add, for Mike... if that Malibu cable you propose to use says "Class 2", "Class 3", "CL2", or "CL3" on its markings anywhere, is will be okay to use for your wiring from your transformer secondary to the lights. Outdoor Malibu lighting cable is normally only marked as being Type SPT-3 (with the "-3" meaning suitable for UV and direct burial). I have not seen any outdoor Malibu lighting cable marked as class 2 or class 3, but it might exist.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I was looking at the 24v lights for the 24v transformer, but good catch. What I was looking at was the 250watt 24v transformer, max of (20) 10 watt lights. Going to make two runs off of it, one about 17 feet the other about 30.

I want to avoid the Halogen pucks, for the heat issue and the spot lighting issues, I've used them before for things but have never liked them really under cabinets, trying for a softer and more even glow this time.

These systems the Sea Gull and the Kichler use those wire piercing type bulbs you can place anywhere along the wire, same thing as that cheap Malibu landscape lighting.

But I'm getting the idea that the wire is very important and subing Malibus outdoor rated wire for through wall might be a no-no.

On Malibus packaging it says

Self Sealing Wire, C UL US listed underground, low energy circuit cable 26PV, on the wire itself it says

*12 AWG 2/C Under ground low energy circuit cable sunlight resistant for outdoor lighting UL 2251666 (cUL) low voltage landscape lighting 30v FT-1*


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> *12 AWG 2/C Under ground low energy circuit cable sunlight resistant for outdoor lighting UL 2251666 (cUL) low voltage landscape lighting 30v FT-1*


umm... yeah. I wouldn't be especially excited about using that cable. It _might_ be superior to the actual stuff that's supposed to be used, but I have no way to say for sure. That 'cUL' means that it is a certified component of an overall UL listed system (the Malibu system) and that makes it unsuitable for other uses just by that simple marking alone. 

If your lights connect with some sort of piercing connector, you'd be better advised to hunt down the right stuff. At least get something that says CL2 or CL3 on it, and is dimensionally suitable for the piercing connectors.


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> I want to avoid the Halogen pucks, for the heat issue and the spot lighting issues, I've used them before for things but have never liked them really under cabinets, trying for a softer and more even glow this time.


Hera also has Xenon lights also. Not trying to push the product but I am very happy with all of there stuff.


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## Murphy (Mar 28, 2006)

I got a question about code on this lighting system. Does the transformer have to be in a box or can you just screw it to the cabinet top hidden behind the crown. Seems like you would need a three gang box to put the 24 volt transformer in the wall on some of sea gulls stuff. Murph


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Murphy said:


> I got a question about code on this lighting system. Does the transformer have to be in a box or can you just screw it to the cabinet top hidden behind the crown. Seems like you would need a three gang box to put the 24 volt transformer in the wall on some of sea gulls stuff. Murph


Very rarely do I ever see a transformer that is to be mounted in a box for undercabinet lighting. Normally, they're a "box" of their own, that you hang. They have an integrated circuit breaker, and knockouts on the bottom into which to bring the primary and secondary conductors. Maybe we're thinking about different things. This is what I'm talking about:


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I'm still pushing LED's. More colors are coming on line every week, they only use a few Ma's and heat is 'no problem'.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> I'm still pushing LED's. More colors are coming on line every week, they only use a few Ma's and heat is 'no problem'.


What's your vendor for those? I'd install them in a heartbeat, but I have not seen them on the market yet. I have retrofitted elevator indicator lights and exit signs with LED's, but I havn't seen them for much else yet. Post some links, por favor.


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