# crown molding, could use a little help...



## Meetre (Nov 2, 2007)

freemason21 said:


> so try and follow the ceiling but keep the crown straight at the same time? the reason i ask is i've worked for a guy who would take a level and make the crown straight as can be, and then fill in any gaps with calk or cut a piece of trim to use as a shim. basically if there was a large gap that spanned any length, he'd cut a piece to fill it in. i always thought it looked stupid. but then again im not the professional here. i've also worked for someone who would follow the ceiling, so i never really knew. i've never really asked its never been something i've learned in great deal how to do.


Which do you prefer? I usually decide by looking at it. Which will be less noticeable? go that route. :thumbsup:


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## Meetre (Nov 2, 2007)

Gus Dering said:


> I personally feel that when you change the height of that last vertacal portion of the profile with a shim or scribing it off, that it is more apt to catch your eye than if you just roll with the ceiling.
> 
> You have to think on your feet a little bit here and determine for yourself what is going to look the best.
> 
> ...


 
Great advice from Gus! :thumbsup: Just remember, finish work is about "creating the illusion of perfection". It's rarely perfect.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Meetre said:


> Which do you prefer? I usually decide by looking at it. Which will be less noticeable? go that route. :thumbsup:


Wow, you used a lot less words than me. Nice:notworthy


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Meetre said:


> Great advice from Gus! :thumbsup: Just remember, finish work is about "creating the illusion of perfection". It's rarely perfect.


I just want to reiterate that. There are many tricks you will learn along the way that make trim work faster, easier and better looking. 

One that I like is that if you are doing stain grade base moulding and the outside corner miters end up too shallow (you cut for a 90 degree corner but you should have cut for a 90.5 degree corner) you can roll the shaft of a round nailset along the point of the miter crushing the wood fibers and bringing the tips together.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Wavy, bumpy wonky ceilings are my specialty.

I have glued outside corners, pined them, thrown one or two nails in and waited untill the next day to move the section of crown up to the wavy, dipped ceiling without pulling that outside corner apart.

With enough practice one will figure out all the little tricks to make an ugly crooked room look good crowned out.


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## carpentershane (Feb 9, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Wavy, bumpy wonky ceilings are my specialty.
> 
> I have glued outside corners, pined them, thrown one or two nails in and waited untill the next day to move the section of crown up to the wavy, dipped ceiling without pulling that outside corner apart.
> 
> With enough practice one will figure out all the little tricks to make an ugly crooked room look good crowned out.


A CA glue like FastCap's 2P-10 can expedite this process! Use the glue and activator and some 23 gauge pins and in a couple of minutes you are ready to go.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> Ok here is another little tip or two;
> 
> Cut a little block that is the same length as the distance from the ceiling to the bottom of the crown.
> 
> ...


 I do the same thing on the fence of the miter box, only I score it with a knife. When you bed the crown against the fence, set it at that line for proper miter. The knife score will stay sharper then a pencil mark for extended crown sessions.:thumbsup: I don't use crown stops, the fence scribe works great.


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

The August/September issue of Fine Homebuilding has a nice little article about making a jig to check your cope. Basically a jig you set your coped piece of crown in with a little cut out window to see the back of your cope as it's butting against a scrap piece of crown. That way you can see were you have to take a little more off to get a good fit. 
Some other really helpful tools to have if you start doing trim a little more often is a Collins Coping foot for you jig saw and Collins miter clamps. www.collinstool.com Also a few rat tail files can be pretty helpful too.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I am going to have to say, after playing with the collins clamps a little, I do not like them.

I am going to have to get some of that FasctCap glue!!


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## CharlesD (Feb 12, 2007)

freemason21 said:


> ok tomorrow im gonna be rippin down what i did and re-doing it. after looking at it for a while today i decided i dont like how it came out. im gonna have pictures and will post tomorrow thanks for all the help guys.


You'll get it Free. I never found any crown to be easy going but once you get going on it it gets easier.
Always work one direction is my nickels worth of advice. Don't nail it tight until you get all the joints lined up and matched. I think someone already mentioned doing that.
If the crown is stained, stain your raw cuts. It makes them look better if you are off a small fraction that isn't enough to redo it.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

It gets easier with practice.:thumbsup:


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## Meetre (Nov 2, 2007)

loneframer said:


> It gets easier with practice.:thumbsup:


 
Is it me, or is that a wicked spring angle?


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## stp57 (Dec 12, 2007)

I am not a fan of Ryobi tools but someone recommended me to this product & it actually works. I have never used the laser, but I use the airgrip base with the arm & it holds up one end of 16' crown molding perfectly. I let it run for hours & I haven't had to change the batteries yet.
Steve
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif...702-RyobiAIRgripMultiTaskitEMM0001-large.jpeg
http://products.howstuffworks.com/ryobi-airgrip-multitask-it-emm0001-review.htm
http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodwor...rgrip-accessories-outperform-its-laser-level/



Chris G said:


> A dremel tool, (or even a $10 knock off) can be handy for coping. If you're using MDF, it's a bloody riot actually. Also, these might be handy, Never used them, but I cam across them at Lee Valley.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Meetre said:


> Is it me, or is that a wicked spring angle?


 It's not you. That was the biggest PITA crown I ever installed. The spring angle made me think I was installing it upside down, until I tried one upside down and it looked like dookey.


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## carpentershane (Feb 9, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I am going to have to say, after playing with the collins clamps a little, I do not like them.
> 
> I am going to have to get some of that FasctCap glue!!


If you use that activator you have to be quick, it sets in 3-4 seconds and is fully cured in 30 seconds or so. I have had to recut pieces because I bobbled the mitre as it set...


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

J.C. said:


> The August/September issue of Fine Homebuilding has a nice little article about making a jig to check your cope. Basically a jig you set your coped piece of crown in with a little cut out window to see the back of your cope as it's butting against a scrap piece of crown. That way you can see were you have to take a little more off to get a good fit.
> Some other really helpful tools to have if you start doing trim a little more often is a Collins Coping foot for you jig saw and Collins miter clamps. www.collinstool.com Also a few rat tail files can be pretty helpful too.


excellent.:thumbsup:


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

For anyone that for whatever reason actually wants to cut crown laying flat, here's a handy link I've had stashed away. http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article.asp?Site=woodworking&ID=2


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I am going to have to say, after playing with the collins clamps a little, I do not like them.
> 
> I am going to have to get some of that FasctCap glue!!


me either i was thinking a spreader bar would help hold things tighter


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Where's the damn pictures all ready!!


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Here's some:whistling


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I know what you can do, the OP has left us hanging here.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

thom said:


> Sorry norm, coping saws are designed for cutting on the pull stroke. Apparently you were putting your blades in backwards all along until you made that magic discovery that coping saws cut better on the pull stroke.


Damn, I know this will be the dumb post of the month:shutup:....but, I've always found it easier to cope on the pull stroke....no one I know does it that way, and when they pick up my coping saw they throw it aside...They've been breaking my balls for years...WTF!

First stroke is down then, pull, pull, pull.....:w00t:


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Where's the damn pictures all ready!!


 sorry to leave everyone hanging. i didnt do it today i had a total meltdown and needed to take some time to figure out whats going on in my head. tomorrow im gonna be doing it, and will have pictures then :thumbsup:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Freemason21,

Very few corners are truly 90 degrees. Thus, setting your miter saw to the 45 preset will not always give you a good outside corner. If you do not have an angle gauge, here is how to get accurate outside corners every time.

Simply take two pieces of 1x stock about 18 inches long. Lay one along one wall, flat upon the ceiling with about 6 inches sticking out past the corner. Now do the same thing with the other piece, coming from the other direction. The second piece should cross over the first one you held up there.

Scribe two pencil lines on the first board, giving you lines where both sides of the second board cross it.

Now take them down and hang onto the piece with the two pencil lines on it.

Draw a third line across the board from one end of the left line to the bottom end of the right line. (You will end up with "about" a 45 degree line.) Line up your miter saw blade with this line, and cut the angle.

Now mark this angle cut pattern on the other piece of wood... cut it too. (The saw should already be set for this cut.)

Take both pieces back up to the wall corner and test their fit. It should be perfect, but if not, adjust your saw angle slightly.

This part is important: Record the final, adjusted saw setting so that when you cut your actual molding, you can "swing" the saw to the exact same angle for both sides of the saw.

Go ahead and treat this "discovered" angle as the original 45.... it will make this particular corner fit perfectly.

You can use this method on each corner for exact fits, all the way around the house.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

freemason21 said:


> sorry to leave everyone hanging. i didnt do it today i had a total meltdown and needed to take some time to figure out whats going on in my head. tomorrow im gonna be doing it, and will have pictures then :thumbsup:


How many of us, at our ages and experience, could openly admit this? And then determine to get right back on the horse?

You hang in there 21! :thumbsup:


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Willie T said:


> Freemason21,
> 
> Very few corners are truly 90 degrees. Thus, setting your miter saw to the 45 preset will not always give you a good outside corner._Get an_ angle gauge.


Fixed it for ya....:laughing:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

JumboJack said:


> Fixed it for ya....:laughing:


Normally, I'd agree. But he's recently lost his job. I'm not too sure how he has the money to buy crown for a honey-do job, but I suspect buying more tools right now wouldn't be wise if he can get away without doing so.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Willie T said:


> Normally, I'd agree. But he's recently lost his job. I'm not too sure how he has the money to buy crown for a honey-do job, but I suspect buying more tools right now wouldn't be wise if he can get away without doing so.


 
You can buy one for 18 bucks at woodcraft, for a plastic one.

I bet he might throw away more than 18 bucks worth of crown.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Before fancy digital stuff, I learned
to get the angle with a T-bevel.
Then put the handle on the edge of
a piece of paper and mark a pencil line
down the blade.
Then fold the edge to the pencil line,
and you have bisected the angle and
have the setting for the saw.
Just put one edge against the fence
and move the blade to the other.
No batteries to replace.


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

well things have been hung up once again. one of the water lines has a very very tiny leak in it, so tomorrow my uncle will be coming by to take care of that. ill post some pictures in a few when i have the 1x4 up.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I love it! Be thankful the hardware store is so close, and money is so plentiful today. :clap:

For years and years before chop saws became so affordable, this was my miter box. Crank the Skill saw over to 45, and whack off a piece of base.

Not good for crown, but fast and cheap for base. 
In the 60's I didn't do any crown.

I think I actually still have this somewhere out in the garage.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Willie T said:


> Normally, I'd agree. But he's recently lost his job. I'm not too sure how he has the money to buy crown for a honey-do job, but I suspect buying more tools right now wouldn't be wise if he can get away without doing so.



He's not still gettin' the unemployment? :whistling



















sorry, just stirrin' the pot :w00t:


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

....


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

heres a couple pictures. and just so everyone knows i've had this stuff in my attic for a couple months i've just had no time to do it.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

freemason21 said:


> sorry to leave everyone hanging. i didnt do it today i had a total meltdown and needed to take some time to figure out whats going on in my head. tomorrow im gonna be doing it, and will have pictures then :thumbsup:


 ive had young guys on my crew before and they were always haveing these ''melt downs''

the best cure for most of their problems is work
your broke? get a job
your bored? get a job
your depressed? get a job

and it don't have to be in construction
pump gas,flip burgers anything to keep you occupied
hit the construction thing again when times get alittle better

crown looks good by the way:thumbsup:


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## mark234 (Nov 6, 2009)

*For a really tight cope...*

For crown with bellies...After I make my cope, I'll take a 6" scrap piece of the same moulding and rip the scotia off at the intersection of the belly. I take a peel and stick piece of 120 grit sandpaper and stick it to the belly portion. Put this up against your cope on the angle it would sit on the wall and sand your cope. Tight as a frogs a$$. Crisp and clean too.
Hope this isn't a repeat.
See ya!!!


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

tomstruble said:


> ive had young guys on my crew before and they were always haveing these ''melt downs''
> 
> the best cure for most of their problems is work
> your broke? get a job
> ...


 i'd rather not get into my life experiences but losing a job and falling behind on bills is not going to throw me over the edge. its stressful but i've lived a rough life by anyones standards and sometimes it eats at me. it is often the downfall of anything i succeed in and ironically usually what gives me the drive to try and keep going. thanks for the compliments :clap:


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## skymaster (Oct 23, 2006)

WNY: Cope on the pull stroke eh? LOL There AINT no other way!!!!!!!!
:clap::laughing: Dont let nobody tell ya different. Only the GREAT ONES like US!!!!!! can do that It requires Something the others can only dream about SKILL FANTASTIC SKILL ROFLMAO :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::whistling


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

collins foot:thumbup:


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

also i've got a job interview tomorrow at a gmc dealership. i really hope i get it. it does bum me out but i dont think i can support my self right now and do construction, i hope this job pans out, and i hope im still welcome around here!


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

well the interview went well i think, i wasnt hired but he seemed like he wanted to say yes. he told me the only reason he wouldnt give me an answer right away is because my lack of sales experience. i'm going to call him tuesday. a friend of mine knows his son (the guy i met with was the owner) so hopefully that'll be enough to get me in there! i also met up with a buddy of mine who has a job thats suppose to start up wednesday so hopefully i can get on board with him for the time being... just trying to stay positive no matter how much i dont want to.


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## finish line (Nov 8, 2009)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Am I the only one who uses the pre-set stops on a miter saw and lays the crown flat?


 i still do when installing a very large crown,i have installed miles of it litterally,and do not use stops,i mark the fence at square,then roll it up or down with my hand while cutting to adjust the angle


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Anything under 4". Pin nail stops on the table and fence of a 10" miter saw so the crown sits in there at a perfect 90*. Then swing the blade to make left and right hand cuts. If the miter is perfect, no need to adjust the cut.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's both. Very compact, light weight (47lbs.), easy to carry and set up.
> 
> Has it's own angle transfer device, dual lasers that are completley adjustable to suit your cutting needs. Super nice hold down clamp.
> 
> ...


Thanks to you wanna im gonna be out of pocket a few thousand $. I have found my self a new fav shop for tools. I never heard about the company woodcraft and passed the shop many times and thought it was just a furniture shop. Boy oh boy the place has some nice stuff. They had the full line of Festool in stock and i might have to go back to make some purchases in the future.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Thanks to you wanna im gonna be out of pocket a few thousand $. I have found my self a new fav shop for tools. I never heard about the company woodcraft and passed the shop many times and thought it was just a furniture shop. Boy oh boy the place has some nice stuff. They had the full line of Festool in stock and i might have to go back to make some purchases in the future.


 
I would tell your wife you were going to the strip club, instead of woodcraft, you will get in less trouble that way.:laughing:


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## kcremodeling (Nov 8, 2009)

*Crown*

Thats the truth. upside and back. glue seams


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## kcremodeling (Nov 8, 2009)

*Crown*

Mark the fence of your miter saw to keep the cuts the same


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I would tell your wife you were going to the strip club, instead of woodcraft, you will get in less trouble that way.:laughing:


Why didn't you tell him about the hide the new tools under a tarp method? Once they have some battle scars they just look like the rest of the junk in the heap and you don't need the tarp any more. The easy way is hard enough.:whistling

You just want someone to hang with down at the Silver String.


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## CharlesD (Feb 12, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I would tell your wife you were going to the strip club, instead of woodcraft, you will get in less trouble that way.:laughing:


I'd have lot less lust in a strip club than I would have in Woodcraft. Silicone boobs don't impress me. Festools do. I'm glad I'm 70 miles from the closest one


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Gus Dering said:


> Why didn't you tell him about the hide the new tools under a tarp method? Once they have some battle scars they just look like the rest of the junk in the heap and you don't need the tarp any more. The easy way is hard enough.:whistling
> 
> You just want someone to hang with down at the Silver String.


I bring mine in and set them up in the living room.
I may have Festool'd the old lady on the mft/3:whistling

Then I scoot the baby back and lay them by my bed side, can't let them get lonely.

You could try the tarp method as well.:laughing:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I bring mine in and set them up in the living room.
> I may have Festool'd the old lady on the mft/3:whistling
> 
> Then I scoot the baby back and lay them by my bed side, can't let them get lonely.
> ...


Lends a new meaning to "multifunction".:clap:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I bring mine in and set them up in the living room.
> I may have Festool'd the old lady on the mft/3:whistling
> 
> Then I scoot the baby back and lay them by my bed side, can't let them get lonely.
> ...





Willie T said:


> Lends a new meaning to "multifunction".:clap:


I thought it stood for 
Mother F***ing Table anyway. :laughing:
Sounds like the appropriate useage?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

neolitic said:


> I thought it stood for
> Mother F***ing Table anyway. :laughing:
> Sounds like the appropriate useage?


 
You dirty old men!!!:laughing:


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