# Interviewing employees.... Do's and Don'ts



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Robie said:


> Start asking the question to folks you come in contact with.
> 
> I think you'll be amazed at just how low the intelligence bar is.



So far my sub's are pretty smart. Foundation and framer, both answered immediately and started laughing. Ill keep trying.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Stephen H said:


> apparently, a lot of questions a lot of people think are illegal to ask-aren't actually illegal unless you employ 15 or more employees..........


My bad - I just automatically have my interview plan set up so that I won't have problems no matter the company size. No need for it.



Stephen H said:


> so if a conversation reveals a life history filled with bad personal decisions--- we are not interested


Second that. Even of they make good work place decisions, personal lives do spill over onto the job site one way or another. Part of why I like to see and preferably ride in the the person's car / truck and may ask them to bring their auto insurance bill. 



Stephen H said:


> beyond that, I am looking for someone with an active interest they pursue outside of work


I'll ask "What do you get really excited about?" You can't take someone with no passion for anything and make them passionate about their work.





Stephen H said:


> Actually- I like to have them come to MY house and interview them in my living room- this sorts things out pretty quickly because if I am not comfortable with them in MY house I have no business taking them to customers homes,
> stephen


If I wouldn't ride with them in their car, I wouldn't hire them. To be honest, I don't scare easily, but if I see a glass pipe in there, I'm not getting in...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> That's strange Stephen. I don't mind people's sports or even political views. Football falls on Sundays, as well as Nascar so it shouldn't be any interference with work. Rarely do we talk football on the job site (unless its the week the refs decided to give the packers a loss)



I wouldnt normally make an assumption public, but since he made his assumptions public I will.

I would guess by your comments you swing left at the voting polls, Stephen. Not an an insult, just an observation. I dig your posts, but your opinions on hiring mimic my college psych professor, who was a hard corp lefty. 

People often assume football player are dumb, most good ones are not. Personally I like middle linebacker types on my crews. Smart, introspective, athletic, confident, team and goal oriented, and will not be denied. As long as they have the self respect to want to do great work and become a craftsman, they are ideal for construction. 

I also like ex servicemen, they pretty much have the job. My best two hands when i was a commercial foreman were servicemen. An army mortarman and a marine groundpounder. Both outstanding employees.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Jaws said:


> I wouldnt normally make an assumption public, but since he made his assumptions public I will.
> 
> I would guess by your comments you swing left at the voting polls, Stephen. Not an an insult, just an observation. I dig your posts, but your opinions on hiring mimic my college psych professor, who was a hard corp lefty.
> 
> ...


 that's Ok- I am not making the assumption that football players are dumb------ just accepting my observation that I don't want to work with rabid football fans. I have worked with them in the past-and it's tedious to hear about the Cleveland Browns all day, LOL.

BTW- middle linebackers are,in general, too big to do our work efficiently.
also-we are looking for CURRENT athletes- hence the preference for people into rock climbing,running, mountain biking etc.- not many people slating roofs and playing linebacker on their days off.

as far as service men go- it doesn't come up much for us--- had a good kid a few years ago who worked for us one year-and then went into the navy( he is still in the navy)- his younger brother then worked for us for 2 years- but as far as previous service men working for us- it doesn't come up much so I can't say if I would view it as a positive or a negative.

realistically-we work as a small shop(3), and the work we do can be pretty dangerous, so we all need to get along well and look out for each other. we all have a variety of interests but we tend towards being widely read, athletic, interested in history,current events,art,music,old tools,old houses, obsolete materials etc. We look for people that will fit in with that

on the other hand there would be plenty of outfits I wouldn't fit in with----last eve. I saw Moliere's " an Imaginary Invalid" live on stage and next week will see "The Winters Tale" by Shakespeare-I suspect there are some places that would get me laughed off the job site- but here it's no big deal, my co-woker who also has a raku kiln finds it cool and my other co-worker who plays in a band has no problem with it.

since it's my name on the door, I am looking for minimal conflict and excellent conversation----- political and religous debates,not so much,LOL
Best wishes all,
stephen


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Our inside linebacker was 165 lbs. I on the other hand was a 235 lbs nose/offensive gaurd was definitely not made to roof, although I have walked top plate at 250 20' off the ground and had no problems. Roofing, definitely not a trade I would pursue as a big guy, especially a steeple topper doing slate on a 12/12. Lol

Re reading your post, I get where you are coming from and can see you definitely werent insulting football players. I dont hire guys I dont like or dont want to be around, either. Although Im the only guy on staff that doesnt dig Nascar.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

My hiring has not been going well. Hired 3 guys last week and now I have none of them. My next application will have only 1 question:

1) When can you start?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Warren said:


> My hiring has not been going well. Hired 3 guys last week and now I have none of them. My next application will have only 1 question:
> 
> 1) When can you start?[/QUOTE
> 
> What is the problem do you think? The work too hard?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Robie said:


> ...out of the clear blue sky...ask: What is one third of a hundred.
> 
> I've had bookkeeper applicants not know and tell me they need a calculator. I've had dishwashers immediately answer 33.3.


What I like about that question is that you can determine whether someone can think practically vs. being able to think only within the boundaries of the position.

I liken it to comparing pianists who can play any song off the top of their head vs. those who need sheet music. The one who does not need sheet music has the ability to give life and flavor to the music the same way that your dishwasher can think on his feet and solve problems that exist outside of the realm of the project.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Our inside linebacker was 165 lbs. I on the other hand was a 235 lbs nose/offensive gaurd was definitely not made to roof, although I have walked top plate at 250 20' off the ground and had no problems. Roofing, definitely not a trade I would pursue as a big guy, especially a steeple topper doing slate on a 12/12. Lol
> 
> Re reading your post, I get where you are coming from and can see you definitely werent insulting football players. I dont hire guys I dont like or dont want to be around, either. Although Im the only guy on staff that doesnt dig Nascar.


 Hey- I thought everything in Texas was supposed to be bigger ????
165# wouldn't really cut it as a highschool LB- here you better be more like 200-220# and FAST to really work it.

Our typical pitch is 12/12 to 20/12 so I am definitely looking for a specific body type to hire. I am about your size- but I am 50, so I am not looking for 22 year olds starting out at this size, LOL-we only need ONE of those and I already fill that spot.

Hey- you boys hunt Javalinas down there?- I saw the dog for you yesterday on TV -Dogos Argentinos---- in the field they are like the middle linebackers of dogs- but supposed to be excellent family dogs in the house. hunting not really my thing but Damn oh Damn those were some impressive dogs---- I would LOVE to see them in the field.
stephen


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## Young_Buck (Jul 19, 2009)

I had one prospective employer ask me to make a list of everything I could handle on my own, soup to nuts.

I found it to be a good exercise for a number of reasons:

He got a good example of my handwriting, and list-making skills. He got to watch me go through the process of actually making the list -- ie, backtracking through my experience, and also watching me go through a project in my head.

Plus when he ultimately hired me he had a list of everything I said I could do, to which he could hold me accountable.


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

Before the end of the interview when he feels nice and comfortable I always ask whats the most of expensive thing you Ever stolen ?

and then I stare at him to see his reaction an answer.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I am not sure what the deal is. I have hired dozens of people over the last twenty years, and it has never been this difficult. Why would someone go to the hassle of applying, interview, etc only to either not show, or work a couple days and disappear.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Warren said:


> I am not sure what the deal is. I have hired dozens of people over the last twenty years, and it has never been this difficult. Why would someone go to the hassle of applying, interview, etc only to either not show, or work a couple days and disappear.



Some want all the perks without any of the work.


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## Young_Buck (Jul 19, 2009)

> I am not sure what the deal is. I have hired dozens of people over the last twenty years, and it has never been this difficult. Why would someone go to the hassle of applying, interview, etc only to either not show, or work a couple days and disappear.


As the 'average' job moves further and further from real work, our trade becomes less and less tolerable. 

If my great grandfather could see me at work, he'd think I was a huge wuss.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Stephen H said:


> Hey- I thought everything in Texas was supposed to be bigger ????
> 165# wouldn't really cut it as a highschool LB- here you better be more like 200-220# and FAST to really work it.
> 
> Our typical pitch is 12/12 to 20/12 so I am definitely looking for a specific body type to hire. I am about your size- but I am 50, so I am not looking for 22 year olds starting out at this size, LOL-we only need ONE of those and I already fill that spot.
> ...


He was not a prototypical linebacker here by any mean means. The 2 outside linebackers were over 200 pounds, Our coach wanted the toughest and smartest defender at Middle linebacker, and wanted fast linebackers, and also wanted the smartest defender always at middle linebacker. Our Mike linebacker called all of the defensive sets and audibles at the line of scrimmage. So the Mike linebacker didn't necessarily have to be big but he had to be the toughest and smartest defender on the field, because he was also the leader of the defense. That particular guy was all district

I hunt javelinas and ferral hogs, but with a riffle or bow. The dogs and knife is to brutal for my liking.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I have found that working guys are generally uncomfortable & out of their element with a formal type interview.

Best results have been from having a conversation with them.
Who they know, what projects/jobs they been on, how long etc....

Generally a guys who downplays his experience is spot on.
Start talking about tools...that will tell you a bunch about the guy...

Ask him ahve you ever been on a job like Smudruggers?...or
ever cut a roof or stairs like at the diggerdoo job?

I am fairly adept at getting information out of people with converstion so it has been fairly easy for me to decide on employees...

and yes I have been wrong, judging both ways...just not very often...:thumbsup:


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## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

Stephen H said:


> apparently, a lot of questions a lot of people think are illegal to ask-aren't actually illegal unless you employ 15 or more employees..........
> 
> for our company, we NEED people with a high degree of -----energy, fitness,agility,balls .----also judgement
> 
> ...


Id be curious if you would take any ninja warriors with proficient bow staff skills? where that falls in the employment pre screening.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Spaint90 said:


> Id be curious if you would take any ninja warriors with proficient bow staff skills?


If I needed an assassasin.....:whistling:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:

ya it's spelled right....:laughing::laughing:


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## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

griz said:


> If I needed an assassasin.....:whistling:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:
> 
> ya it's spelled right....:laughing::laughing:


I wasnt sure if they would be more adept at handling the mental strain of laying tile. NASCAR and Football fans seem to be incompetent..although to be fair roofing requires a high IQ as well. Harvard is about to add a roofing curriculum.


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## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

I started about a year ago taking a picture of there drivers license as I rarely get a chance to check up on were they live. Also with a drivers license you can run a background check if you want.


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## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

Yeah im actually retarted


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Spaint90 said:


> Yeah im actually retarted


:laughing: : laughing: : laughing:


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Jaws said:


> Wow. That is presumptive. We have no idea what he or anyone else pays. Stephen doesnt install shingles, he does high end slate/ specialty stuff.
> 
> Also, not to sound like a kindergarten teacher, but on a forum of this size, I would think atleast a few people have a special needs child or relative. Say dumb azz, like Jay. :thumbsup:


I DO have a special needs child...he was in neonatal ICU for the first 3 months of his life and required 12hrs a day of in home nursing care for 4 years, 2years at 8 a day, and 1 year at 6. Had a tracheotomy and a feeding tube.

Anyhow I prefer insightful over presumptive.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

But to get back on topic are you currently a wolverines fan?


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Being a Michigan fan would have done it for me..


I like NFL not college., but as far as college goes I'm LSU, Tennessee, then Michigan State. I don't care for the Wolverines.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I like NFL not college., but as far as college goes I'm LSU/ Tennessee, then Michigan State. I don't care for the Wolverines.


Oh good.. :laughing:

In that case Ill say finding someone to repair a slate tile roof for $30hr is almost impossible. He is a specialty tradesmen so his rate range makes sense. 

I also prefer the nfl


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

College first for me but I like nfl too. SEC conference is where it's at- go Gators!


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Oh good.. :laughing:
> 
> In that case Ill say finding someone to repair a slate tile roof for $30hr is almost impossible. He is a specialty tradesmen so his rate range makes sense.
> 
> I also prefer the nfl


I know its a specialty but my ass he's paying 30 an hour on the books plus bennies.
At that point you're better off paying salary.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I know its a specialty but my ass he's paying 30 an hour on the books plus bennies.
> At that point you're better off paying salary.


My cabinet guy had two guys he paid $28 an hour on payroll, IN TEXAS.:whistling

It does seem high for an employee of a roofing company, but we dont know he isnt paying that much. 

Also he said range, maybe $30 is for a perfect world guy he has been searching for for years.

It feels strange to attack someone's ideas early in a thread and then come to their defense later. :laughing:

I also had a raw nerve struck with the football thing , but to each their own. :thumbsup:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I've paid asphalt shingler installers $25 hourly. $30 for slate doesn't seem out of this world.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I've paid asphalt shingler installers $25 hourly. $30 for slate doesn't seem out of this world.


I'd bet his 25 an hour was the sq rate, which you pay and I took you're advice and switched to,averaged out hourly.

That being said if someone is truly worth 20+ an hour plus bennies salary makes more sense than hourly and IMO someone who can demand that type of pay better be a manager of sorts and have more responsibility than simply installing.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

I've done high rise window cleaning...rock climbing doesn't even compare.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

35 an hour isn't outrageous for a plasterer, I've paid it before. What's so wrong about paying a good slate guy $30, it isn't like you're hiring a carpenter:whistling


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

hdavis said:


> 35 an hour isn't outrageous for a plasterer, I've paid it before. What's so wrong about paying a good slate guy $30, it isn't like you're hiring a carpenter:whistling


Guess its all your local cost of living...I just have a hard time wrapping my head around paying someone $30 hr plus bennies on the books 6 days a week, simply for installing.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Supply and demand.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Jaws said:


> Say dumb azz, like Jay. :thumbsup:


Don't be thinking I didn't see this. :laughing:












As far as Stephen's hiring practices, what's the big deal, it's _his _business. And I have no doubts he pays/has paid $30 an hour, on the books. 

I don't get the big deal, the client is paying for it all.






















Oh, and I wouldn't hire a guy that can't use capitalization in his posts.









Even rabid/fanatical football fans have that capability, *S*tephen. :laughing:


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## Crawdad (Jul 20, 2005)

flashheatingand said:


> I like football, but Stephens question is a good one. We usually have only one day off a week, so, if you are going to spend that whole day just chilled out in front of the tv set, watching other guys play a game, well, that does say something.


I think he means the ones that not only watch these men playing a game on TV, but spend the rest of the week talking about it, and look at you funny if you don't share their enthusiasm for the games. You know, the ones who, when talking about their favorite team, say "*we* beat the other team" as if they are actual members of the team...I wouldn't want to work with someone like that either.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I think people are missing the fact that Stephen said 10-30. It was a range of income he is willing to offer. The proverbial dangling carrot works.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Guess its all your local cost of living...I just have a hard time wrapping my head around paying someone $30 hr plus bennies on the books 6 days a week, simply for installing.


 A & E,
just because you can't do it where you are-doesn't mean we don't do it here.

employee Also gets a company truck(2008 F250 about 40,000 miles on it) along with the pay,run through a payroll service and benefits

don't know WHERE on earth you got the 6 days a week thing from- don't think I mentioned 6 days a week. We rarely work saturdays,though we will probably work the next 3-4 saturdays to get people buttoned up for winter

your big mistake is in assuming we are simply installing shingles-quite the contrary

on a new slate install-since it is a natural product( unlike an dimensional shingle) each and every slate must be inspected---and since we work primarily with salvaged slate and tile each slate or tile must be inspected much more rigourously.- it's not remotely like flipping a shingle out of a bundle---CONSIDERABLE judgement is required

the closest comparison I think would be a lead carpenter position

A guy who can do correct material take-offs, correctly order lumber packages, show up at a job site that's a stack of lumber next to a hole in the ground-and turn it into a house-what's HE worth?- I suspect it's considerably more than the average wall banger nailing studs along someone elses layout.

I can get "roofers" all day long for $16/hour who will try to convince me to hire them based on how fast they can slap down dimensional shingles- but that's not what I need or want. not one of those guys will have the ability to go out, meet a prospective customer with an obsolete tile roof, identify a tile that hasn't been manufactured since the 1930's and know where to get the required stock IF we don't already own it and be able to explain the process to the prospective customer.

no offense intended- but you are not qualified to do so--- I develope people who ARE qualified to do so, and pay them accordingly.

By next June I expect the employee in question to be earning well OVER the $30/hour because at that point he should be earning a % cut of each job.

I have based our pay scale on the local carpenters union rates and package-we actually well exceed the union residential rate

again- it may not be possible where you are-- it certainley is possible here.

stephen


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I think people are missing the fact that Stephen said 10-30. It was a range of income he is willing to offer. The proverbial dangling carrot works.



that's a good point- Kevin actually started at $12/hour and it's taken him about 3 years to get to where he is now-which is not quite $30,plus bennies,plus company truck,plus bonuses, plus 50% of salvaged scrap which can be considerable since we are talking about lead and copper- it will be $30 by summer 2013 at which point I expect him to be earning a % of each job which should earn him well over $30/hour. He will also be managing a full time apprentice level person and also typically a part time laborer as well.

the laborer we already have- the next apprentice we need to hire early March 2013. I expect the apprentice type person to be able to progress like Kevin

Stephen


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Things A&E has to be angry about:

He lives in Michigan.
Michgan Wolverine fans live in Michigan.
He lives so close to Ohio he can taste the sweat success but just cant find the right exit to 75 south.
He works for a guy Paulie who is a self described drywall Nazi : laughing:
He works hard and then has to read about how you pay helpers twice what he makes..
Jeep is outsourcing the jobs of most of the clients they have left in Michigan.
Michigan is loaded full of liberals.
It just goes on and on and on. 

Its ok to be pissed AE.. :laughing:


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Things A&E has to be angry about:
> 
> He lives in Michigan.
> Michgan Wolverine fans live in Michigan.
> ...


 My newspaper yesterday had a lot of P. O'd Jeep executives in it pointing out that Romneys claims RE Jeep are completely untrue---- your other points might very well be accurate, however.

Best wishes all,
Stephen


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Stephan is really giving a good example of what you can (and need to do) if you can work a niche market. If everything is set up and run right, you can make very good profits and pay well because it's specialized and there isn't a lot of competition. Having inventory of otherwise almost unavailable materials is a big help.

Here's an example of why you want a slate guy if you have a slate roof. I know a guy in Portland who bought a Victorian and is fixing it up as he has funds. The slate roof had leaks in some places along the ridge, so he contacted a GC buddy of his who is based in Massachusetts (Maine doesn't require GC licensing, so you see a lot come up from other states to do jobs). He gets a low quality out of state asphalt shingle sub to look at the roof - gee, that roof is too far gone, it all has to come off. OK, but save the slate and I'll pay extra. 

Stripping starts, and they're carefully carrying the tiles down and neatly stacking them. He comes home from work, and they're throwing them off the roof into a more or less pile. They're all busted. What's even better, his eaves (something like a 16" overhang) have been cut right off the building, leaving a 4" overhang.

Paying some big hourly wages would have been much much cheaper for him - I stopped by and saw what was happening when it was too late to get him pointed in the right direction.

The moral is, if it's a specialty, hire a specialist and pay the money - it's actually cheaper.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

hdavis said:


> Stephan is really giving a good example of what you can (and need to do) if you can work a niche market. If everything is set up and run right, you can make very good profits and pay well because it's specialized and there isn't a lot of competition. Having inventory of otherwise almost unavailable materials is a big help.
> 
> Here's an example of why you want a slate guy if you have a slate roof. I know a guy in Portland who bought a Victorian and is fixing it up as he has funds. The slate roof had leaks in some places along the ridge, so he contacted a GC buddy of his who is based in Massachusetts (Maine doesn't require GC licensing, so you see a lot come up from other states to do jobs). He gets a low quality out of state asphalt shingle sub to look at the roof - gee, that roof is too far gone, it all has to come off. OK, but save the slate and I'll pay extra.
> 
> ...


I agree.

Where was the GC when this was going down?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

At the bar.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Jaws said:


> I agree.
> 
> Where was the GC when this was going down?


 some times the GC is the freaking HOMEOWNER!

This happened to me this week:

Locally- it started raining Friday eve. on 10-26-12-and it rained straight here until Thursday afternoon about 3:00 on 11-1-12.

No big surprise- half the country is like this, right?
So--- Monday Eve. 10-29-12 after I go to bed ----a woman calls-her slate roof is leaking----she has a strong referral to us from one of our other customers.

She says she understands it's raining,but wants to know If I can get anyone out to tarp her roof. I answer her call Tuesday Morning------- tell her there is no way I can even get out to look at the situation until Weds. morning.

Tuesday night--- again after I go to bed she calls back and tells me that her husband has had a heart attack, he is in the hospital and weds. morning he is being transported to another hospital for a heart Cath. procedure. She wants me to call her Weds. morning since obviously she won't be able to make our appointment---------

I call her Weds. morning, I tell her to take care of her husband and not worry about her appointment- I will go out anyway and see what I can figure out-she arranges to have her son meet me there.

( this is one county away,BTW)

Eventually this is what I piece together- the slate roof is only 14 years old. the Husband is a local commercial GC-14 years ago they did a ton of work on this rambling,HUGE house but they couldn't find a slate guy-eventually they found somebody that would come up from yet another county.

Keep in mind- huge house, NEW slate roof, copper half round gutters everywhere, copper valleys, copper drip edge-this was an EXPENSIVE project 14 years ago.

I put a ladder up at ONE location-and from one vantage point I can count 26 different slates that are face nailed.( Face nailing slate is THE cardinal sin of slate work.

That's from one vantage point- there has to be at least 100 slates on this new slate roof that are face nailed.-some of them are at obvious former jack locations- but others are just face nailed for no apparent rhyme or reason---and absolutely none of them needed to be face nailed.

So I send the son up the ladder so he can see what I see-and I write out a proposal

It will be thousands of $$$ to straighten this mess out----thousands

It literally makes me sick in my stomach because there is simply no way it needed to be face nailed

AND- this customer is a GC

BTW- Thursday afternoon the husband and wife call me on a conference call----( to accept my proposal)----remember the husband had a hear attack?-something like 90% blockage in 3 arteries, 3 stents put in-they are sending him home THAT DAY!-
AND he is cleared to fly in a plane-they are going on a vacation next week as originally scheduled.

Also, BTW- I am entirely sure that very similar stories could be told about almost every trade---insane things you find because the perp.s just didn't give a flying [email protected]#$

Stephen


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