# How many of us are college educated?



## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

I'm getting my associates in Business Management. I'll be gradgeating in about 7 or 8 months.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

My sister was supposed to be the pride of the family after she went to college, now she makes $8 an hour and asks her loser brother if he needs any help painting.


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## precisionbuild (Nov 17, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> My sister was supposed to be the pride of the family after she went to college, now she makes $8 an hour and asks her loser brother if he needs any help painting.


You should probably disown him for being such a loser. Unreal!:furious:


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## HomeWS (Jan 15, 2009)

Best thing about college, gave me all kinds of staff and profs to start working for! A quote from the Economics prof, "It's not the degree that you have but what you can do. Diplomas are toilet paper."


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

I did 3.5 years of Electrical Engineering (well, 4 but the first year was a write-off, I went to about 3 days of classes the whole year...)

I had to drop out because of money issues (couldn't afford school anymore)

Was always planning on going back until I started the bid'niss. I don't think I'll go back and finish the last 1.5 years, I like this kind of work too much, even though I am feeling burned out and tired all the time and I work 24 hours a day. There's always a challenge for me to tackle or a problem to solve. I actually do have ADD (noticed there is a thread about it!) so this is the perfect work for me!


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Managed 16 credit hours toward an Associates degree in Civil Architecture . So I do have a vague memory of what those hallowed halls looked like... well, for a few months anyway. :laughing: Didn't learn anything though.


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## Soda Buster (Dec 22, 2008)

*College? My wife went there before we met each other. Does that count?*



duckdown said:


> Police Departments used to hire people to serve as officers who had nothing but a high-school education and now many are starting to mandate an associate's degree as the minimum. Would it be beneficial if electricians, carpenters and plumbers were also required to have some college before a license is given?



Yes one day we will have our 2 girls attend COLLEGE. By then though it maybe so gosh darn expensive, as if it is not all ready most people's issue. We, my wife and I decided to have our kids 8 years apart so we will have have no need for a sitter when the younger daughter is 6 yrs her 14 yr sister will stay home, while Mommy & Daddy can go out... Save that money for more drink's right. I have "HAD" this dream to be successful 20 years or so ago. Still plugging BUSINESS, what else am I to do? Now a days I just want to stay busy year around. With my customers saying to me when I'm finished on their project, job well done! By the way here is an extra 100 bucks. TAKE YOUR FAMILY OUT FOR 1 NICE DINNER TONIGHT. I sure most would if they had it? The word "tip" is a abbreviation, it stands for (to ensure promptness). ECONOMY 

Knowledge is power. The more you know, the further you'll succeed in life. It's unfortunate for me having to learn this later in my life. It has always been the hard way. Kids today need to get an education, it is getting harder and tougher everyday to make this American dream come alive. Thanks for spell check huh?

Now my wife whom is 8 years younger and much smarter than me. Has her Masters degree in English for teaching career, building that pension. Gives us good benefits at my age of 42 it has saved me a lot of money, 2 kids born in a hospital. With out it I would be sunk, taking in water a long time ago. Please Mr. new President of the USA, we the people have desperately needed your help more than ever...! I know we all can agree that we want a better life for our families, our kids and if there can be any help for us that would be the cats ass. School is very important, becoming certified in my trade a while back has excelled my services. The national organization is known as IICRC ( Institute of Inspection Cleaning Restoration Certificate ). Boy I am thinking should I put this out there? Ah what the heck...!


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

I gragipated from collage with my welders certification.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

The truth is I am the smartest on this board!

Because I stayed in a holiday inn. But I quit school in the 3rd grade because they had recess and I don't play around.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

For every year of college, you lose 10% of common sense.:whistling

Never went but when I thought about it and had my military schoolings and experience added up, I could esaily get a degree but why? So I can act uppity? 

College is just about the biggest scam out there.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)




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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)




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## AtlRemodeling (Jan 23, 2008)

I am a proud graduate of the Georgia Institute of Technology. It took me just over 4 years to graduate with Honors while working nearly 40-50 hours per week to pay for tuition. I had 2 quarters out of 18 where I was not on the Dean’s list. It was very difficult and I am very proud of the accomplishment.


Funny thing about it was they had a Building Construction major but I did not take any classes in that field. I signed up for one, realized that I knew more than the prof and withdrew from the class. I felt like Rodney Dangerfield in back to school, everything the prof said was only possible in fantasyland.


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

I attended Ball State for 3.5 years, majoring in Business Marketing. I didn't graduate because of a girlfriend, imagine that. Anyway, I'm still out 1.5 years and don't intend on going back. What's scary, is that even if I did go back, I think most of my credits(85) wouldn't transfer because it's been 11 years ago. 

I am proud of the fact that I was accepted into Ball State's business school. I had to take 60 hours of mandatory prereq classes and maintain a 2.5 GPA to be accepted. That was a struggle for me with the partying and nightly boozing, but I managed to get in after taking a summer course in Economics and getting an A. 

College on the whole, is extremely overrated and it's just a feather in one's cap for the most part. Unless you plan to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer etc., you certainly don't need a four year degree. Give me a person with a high school diploma and eight years experience every day over some hotshot 22 year old with the sheepskin.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

duckdown said:


> Police Departments used to hire people to serve as officers who had nothing but a high-school education and now many are starting to mandate an associate's degree as the minimum. Would it be beneficial if electricians, carpenters and plumbers were also required to have some college before a license is given?


No matter what anyone says, education is something you never loose. I have always thought it funny that the people most critical of education are usually the ones with the least amount of it. I suppose if you looked far enough in the 3rd world, you could find physicians without college!

I have a M.Ed. in education, and I still prefer construction to teaching, but I can tell you going to college was a plus for me. Can't speak for others, but anything you can pick up will benefit you down the road.


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## wolffhomerepair (Jan 27, 2006)

Associates in Mechanical Technology. Worked in my "field" for 10 years before I decided desk jobs suck.


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## mnjconstruction (Oct 5, 2008)

I have a degree in residential contruction and arch design. I learned more in one summer working out in the field then I did all 4 years of school. I do not make any more money then I would without a degree! (maybe i should give myself a raise) But it was a good experience. If i had the chance to go back and reconsider, I probley would not do it again. it was hard times in college. Tring to attend all classes and still work 30-50 hours a week, I use to work nights and weekends on remodeling projects. Left no time for me. But I did rack up about 40k in debt, so not all was lost!


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## Max Nomad (Aug 29, 2008)

duckdown said:


> Police Departments used to hire people to serve as officers who had nothing but a high-school education and now many are starting to mandate an associate's degree as the minimum. *Would it be beneficial if electricians, carpenters and plumbers were also required to have some college before a license is given?*


That's a good question... 

I have a Bachelor's in Graphic Design, a Bachelor's in Computer Science and a Minor in Writing along with some other skill areas that I developed along the way, including some OTJ training in Construction Management and Marketing. One of the biggest things the degrees themselves taught me is that with my combined experience (versus classroom theory) I could have designed better degrees than the ones I received at the graduation ceremony. 

My point: in most industries, a college degree only illustrates a person's ability to take on a long-term, relatively complex project from start to finish -- and manage to juggle the requirements along with part-time jobs, booty calls, beer bongs and everything else that comes with life as a student. *The degree does NOT speak to the person's skill in their discipline nor their business savvy in a given industry. 

*When it comes to contractor licensing, if most states started requiring college degrees all they'd end up doing is reducing the validity and effectiveness of the licensing process. Many contractors who started from the ground up would either blow off the license OR find someone willing to pimp out their degreed status to secure the license. 

Whichever way, contractors that are on their game were going to keep doing business one way or the other.


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## DetailHandyman (Jul 21, 2008)

AtlRemodeling said:


> I am a proud graduate of the Georgia Institute of Technology.


I went there for a year. Did poorly the first two semesters, then made dean's list. Then dropped out. Wish I would have had the motivation to stay. Young and dumb. (Spent too much time at the V!)

Went to Arizona State for 3 years, then got a job where I was traveling about 50% of the time so never finished.

Have two associate's degrees and enough credits that I should have been a doctor & lawyer by now. :whistling



joasis said:


> No matter what anyone says, education is something you never loose. I have always thought it funny that the people most critical of education are usually the ones with the least amount of it. I suppose if you looked far enough in the 3rd world, you could find physicians without college!
> 
> I have a M.Ed. in education, and I still prefer construction to teaching, but I can tell you going to college was a plus for me. Can't speak for others, but anything you can pick up will benefit you down the road.


Well said joasis. :thumbsup:


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## Max Nomad (Aug 29, 2008)

joasis said:


> No matter what anyone says, education is something you never loose. I have always thought it funny that the people most critical of education are usually the ones with the least amount of it. I suppose if you looked far enough in the 3rd world, you could find physicians without college!
> 
> I have a M.Ed. in education, and I still prefer construction to teaching, but I can tell you going to college was a plus for me. Can't speak for others, but anything you can pick up will benefit you down the road.


Although I believe that college was a huge plus for me, too, I also believe that a love for constant Learning is something that can (and should) be cultivated with or without a degree. Call it part of "Kaizen", a focus on continuous improvement throughout all aspects of life.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Sportioli said:


> College is for people that are not smart enough to get by on their wits (smarts).


So you think this is a hard, fast rule? You look for doctors that have no formal education, or settle for a midwife? :laughing:

Broad generalizations about people and education prove nothing....there are Phd.'s that could not air up a tire, and MD.'s that would not know how to open a can of paint....so what? There are men who dropped out of school and are billionaires...but can you tell me the ratio? :whistling

I wanted to fly airplanes for a living....required college....sorry, didn't matter how well you fly, the club is exclusive. You don't know when you say something about other people if you are even close to accurate. And one other thing: I would not trade my education for anything, nor can I loose it.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Sportioli said:


> College is for people that are not smart enough to get by on their wits (smarts).


And the people that say that are ignorant.



silvertree said:


> Birman, your absolutely right. And let me add, there are different other kinds of smart and they are all equal to the sum of their parts.
> If your plane crashed in the Arctic, would you follow the rocket scientist to safety, or the Eskimo tribesman who found you?


That depends!

I'd have the rocket scientist design a heated, covered, snowbile for three from the plane wreckage.
I'd build the thing,
and have the eskimo navigate :jester:


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

I started the college of Hard Knocks around 13-14 years of age. Still in class and doubt I will graduate. Learn something new every week, if not every day.
Not much else to say.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I have a BS in General Studies. I did the extended 7 year plan (Every other semester i worked construction to pay for it). None of the degree programs fit what I wanted, so I did General Studies and ended up with enough hours for an Associates degree in: Psychology, Business, Computer Science, and Communication.

I took the courses I felt I needed, along with some I just wanted to (like 18 hours of Fisheries Management). 

Of course I learned just as much working during the same period as I did at school, but it is an ignorant man that says University has no value. As with anything, it has exactly as much value as you assign to it. Kind of like High School.


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

I am pretty sure that close to 100% (if not all) of my customers have been college educated.
If not for them I'd be piss poor.


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## Gold Tie (Feb 26, 2008)

joasis said:


> I wanted to fly airplanes for a living....required college....sorry, didn't matter how well you fly, the club is exclusive.


 
Nice! I started college and my business to try to get into (and afford) Embry-Riddle. Dropped out and regret it everyday!!! Now that my wife is done with college I may return. Kinda in deep in other ventures though...


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I was in a meeting once with a few architects and engineers going over a design for a small bridge/over path after reviewing the plans and knowing the soil condition from building a few houses in the area I asked if I could speak.

I told the engineers that the soil would not support the weight of the bridge and it would sink regardless of what they did. One of the engineers in his infinite wisdom asked me to come up to the board and show them my calculation/formula that I used to determine this. I said sure. 

I wrote on the board the MF'er is gonna sink. 

They were not t0o happy with me and my Business partner was mad with me for a week.:laughing:


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

rbsremodeling said:


> I was in a meeting once with a few architects and engineers going over a design for a small bridge/over path after reviewing the plans and knowing the soil condition from building a few houses in the area I asked if I could speak.
> 
> I told the engineers that the soil would not support the weight of the bridge and it would sink regardless of what they did. One of the engineers in his infinite wisdom asked me to come up to the board and show them my calculation/formula that I used to determine this. I said sure.
> 
> ...


Great answer.:thumbsup:


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## borat_borat1950 (Dec 6, 2008)

Gold Tie said:


> Nice! I started college and my business to try to get into (and afford) Embry-Riddle. Dropped out and regret it everyday!!! Now that my wife is done with college I may return. Kinda in deep in other ventures though...


 got my support and help if you need it little buddy!!:clap::clap::clap:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Without a strong background in math, I know the engineering we use would never have made sense to me.....and while I respect other opinions, I frankly do not know how anyone could do some of the projects we do without the education. 

Just for conversation, I will give an example: Last summer, one of my projects was a basement or what I called "the bomb shelter" since it was concrete capped. Dug down 10 feet and literally was on water. Pick up a handful of it and squeeze....water. Now what? So I get out the soil compaction guide and calculator and work out the support to bear the weight of the floor and walls + cap...and away we go. Now bear in mind our jumping jack would have sank in this soft ground. Without calling our local testing company out for a compaction test, I ran the numbers and did the compaction and the pour and results were fine. Without my education, I would have argued with an engineer and said no way and never even attempted the job.....as it was, it is in the portfolio.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I agree with you 100% Joasis. I have great respect for a good engineer. 

But sometimes you have to step back from the calculations and look at the entire picture. 

Some times those guys get lost in the math and forget to see the real world and real life work conditions.

I know my limits. I am a Slightly educated grunt and I am cool with my place on the feeding chain. Sometimes unless you have physically done the work and know what is possible the calculator is not gonna help clean up the mess


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I was the kid who ate paste in school, then out of no where the teacher said we were gonna use glue from now on. I tried the glue, I really did, but I couldnt do it. I told her "hey lady, you think just because a kid eats paste he is stupid or somethin'?" . And she said "Most children stop eating paste before the 11th grade, and frankly we dont even know where you have been getting the paste that you have been eating."
So then I was like, " whatever ........"
So I quit school and for years I ate paste whenever I liked, but then one day I tried a paint chip ............ and now here I am.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

> =rbsremodeling;603381
> But sometimes you have to step back from the calculations and look at the entire picture.


 My example wasn't toward anyone, especially you rbs.:thumbsup:

Education has it place and importance....I remember getting out of highschool and thinking I knew it all.....when I was 30, I was just figuring out how little I really knew. :laughing:


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I dont need a college degree my wife knows everything, I just ask her.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

joasis said:


> My example wasn't toward anyone, especially you rbs.:thumbsup:
> 
> Education has it place and importance....I remember getting out of highschool and thinking I knew it all.....when I was 30, I was just figuring out how little I really knew. :laughing:


Did not take it personally at all:thumbsup:


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> I dont need a college degree my wife knows everything, I just ask her.


I must have married your wifes sister


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## borat_borat1950 (Dec 6, 2008)

you all laugh at the sheep skin and then go to the sheep for your answers, In reality you wish you had one just to put the builder down a notch? Yes, I've got mine and proud of it. Iowa St. in 85 in engineering and you people make such a big deal out of little things that don't even require an engineer??? Why, I would like to know? School of hard knocks gets you a lawsuit or worse and the old theroy of I know how to do this has vanished, so at the risk of getting banned again for being a tard, where do most of you non-framers get off on giving advise to us that do this for a living?


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

borat_borat1950 said:


> you all laugh at the sheep skin and then go to the sheep for your answers, In reality you wish you had one just to put the builder down a notch? Yes, I've got mine and proud of it. Iowa St. in 85 in engineering and you people make such a big deal out of little things that don't even require an engineer??? Why, I would like to know? School of hard knocks gets you a lawsuit or worse and the old theroy of I know how to do this has vanished, so at the risk of getting banned again for being a tard, where do most of you non-framers get off on giving advise to us that do this for a living?


Chill out dude - the only papered group we poked fun at here was the architects. The good ones can handle it as they know what problems others have caused. Look at most posts on this site & when called for, we generally refer them to an engineer or tell them to use balsa wood as a joke. Go have a beer or something


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

borat_borat1950 said:


> you all laugh at the sheep skin and then go to the sheep for your answers, In reality you wish you had one just to put the builder down a notch? Yes, I've got mine and proud of it. Iowa St. in 85 in engineering and you people make such a big deal out of little things that don't even require an engineer??? Why, I would like to know? School of hard knocks gets you a lawsuit or worse and the old theroy of I know how to do this has vanished, so at the risk of getting banned again for being a tard, where do most of you non-framers get off on giving advise to us that do this for a living?


Because a lot of architects and engineers suck azz. A calculator only tells half of the story.

If you have never physically done certain projects or have field experience, the calculator can be your worst enemy


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> Because a lot of architects and engineers suck azz. A calculator only tells half of the story.
> 
> If you have never physically done certain projects or have field experience, the calculator can be your worst enemy


So can pipes, columns, windows, doors etc.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Mellison said:


> So can pipes, columns, windows, doors etc.


I do not understand this comment. Spit it out in English for me. Remember I am not an engineer:laughing:


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> I agree with you 100% Joasis. I have great respect for a good engineer.
> 
> But sometimes you have to step back from the calculations and look at the entire picture.
> 
> ...


 Every architect and engineer should acknowledge that fact. Field experience and conditions many times supersede what any numbers can justify. Not always, but I'll take instinct and experience over numbers on a page when anything looks dicey.


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

borat_borat1950 said:


> you all laugh at the sheep skin and then go to the sheep for your answers, In reality you wish you had one just to put the builder down a notch? Yes, I've got mine and proud of it. Iowa St. in 85 in engineering and you people make such a big deal out of little things that don't even require an engineer??? Why, I would like to know? School of hard knocks gets you a lawsuit or worse and the old theroy of I know how to do this has vanished, so at the risk of getting banned again for being a tard, where do most of you non-framers get off on giving advise to us that do this for a living?


 Most 'tards on here don't get banned, just ignored.
Did somebody say somethin'? :laughing:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Back in the day, we framed for U.S. Home. (They were actually a well respected company in those days)

Their architect of choice had a habit of figuring all his interior door RO's to be 4" over door call size. Didn't matter if that door happened to be at the end of a hall or out in the open somewhere. Well, naturally, we got into the habit of adjusting where he neglected to give enough clearance............... but we never told the hotshot architect.

When they would bring in competitive framers (they had sometimes 20 houses under construction, so this happened more often than we liked), we just smiled and watched as the architect reamed the other guys when they would question a door.... insisting that they build it as he drew it.

I don't think he ever figured out why he began getting so many complaints from trim crews. A good case for getting out in the field and picking up at least a little hands-on experience.


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> I do not understand this comment. Spit it out in English for me. Remember I am not an engineer:laughing:


 
My apologies for the ambiguity.
Have you ever started to frame out a door rough only to find a column or pipe in the way? Or snap lines for a wall and find the wall is going to fall within a window?
THese things can be a architects worst enemy if not properly prepared to draw plans.


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## Sasquatch (Mar 26, 2008)

I have some college in business and here is the kicker I learned more on how to run a business from my father in law than i did my schooling. it is over rated. You do not need a masters degree to drive nails nor to do design a plane jane house now if the house is eccentric and takes six years to build because of all the crap the designer through in it then, ok. How many people out there with degrees actually use them. Some will have a masters in some major profession that could make them some bucks abut instead do under water basket weaving. A lot of that stuff you learn in the school unless you are doing stuff over seas you will not need to use it.


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## HitchC&L (Mar 7, 2008)

Im a junior engineering and construction mgt major

My father never went to college and worked on his familys farm through school then went into building, he was a foreman for a company in ohio when my mother was pregnant with me, she was staying in VT right after I was born, and was going to move out to ohio for good once I had had my 6 week checkup and all that, but my father quit his job at that company and came back to VT and started his own shop in our basement.

He would take care of me and my sister during the day while my mother worked (teacher) and then when my mother came home he would go downstairs and work all night.

Now hes got a large shop with the best equipment out there, and works on strictly high end custom jobs. Really shows that with enough effort, you dont need an education to be successful.


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## tcholdren (Jun 27, 2007)

started building decks, remodels, and new construction when i was 14. worked under two of the best tradesmen ever. decided to go to building trades after high school to maybe learn some more especially in the bidding aspect. ended up teaching the instructors some new things. it seemed to me just after two years we the students where paying the school to use us as slave labor and make a ton of money of us by selling the houses and cabinets we where building. after graduating wish i just would of stayed in the school of hard knocks.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

"Smart" is a many faceted thing involving many different forms of thought.

There's visualization and practical thinkingm like the hands-on handyman who finds it terribly obvious how you should nail the bits together.

There's organizational skills, multitasking, juggling. At the other end of the spectrum there's the ability to focus on a single, critical, boring task until it's done.

It's a special talent to be able to really comprehend what numbers actually mean in real life.

And it's another to be able to wrap your head around really bizarre concepts that have little or no models in the everyday world, yet really do describe important aspects of the universe.

And there are others.

And these abilities are present in people in varying degrees. Some poor slobs are born with no particular facility in any of them. A few super-humans possess most of them. Many people are very good at one or two.


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## BirmanBuilders (Aug 24, 2005)

Being a framer and having a degree in engineering, the engineers don't always get it right. The education is essential, but on the job training is priceless. I have pulled so many Arch's and engineers on things, ie, random lvl's thrown in "just in case", and gravity defying 2nd floors. It is however nice to let a condescending architect in on my education, and watch them step back and listen instead of " Well it works on the computer!" I'm a long way from knowing everything, which my wife reminds me of on a daily basis, but I am also willing to listen to anyones opinion. The problem with a lot of educated people is they have no humility, and cannot fathom that a lowly framer might actually be right about something.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

BirmanBuilders said:


> The problem with a lot of educated people is they have no humility.


Exactly:thumbsup:


A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Mr. Heritage should be a good Contract lawyer because he 's smart,, he could help other contractors in need ...and probaly could have made $500 per hour easily. :thumbup:


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

I for one would love the chance to go back to college and finish up my four years and get my structural engineering degree.

Andy.


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## VBuilt (Oct 7, 2007)

*School*

I walked out of high school in the 11th grade and never went back- joined the army (82nd). Got a GED in the service, got out worked and went to a community college and got a 2 year associate degree. Applied to Harvard on a lark- got accepted, went for a bit and dropped out because I liked pounding nails- sometimes I wonder just how "smart" I am.


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## SFcosand (Feb 7, 2009)

*I second that!*

The best in the bunch may not have the most outstanding grammar skills, but they have the know-how from hands on experience. I am currently a college student, who works full time for a commercial contractor and also own my own residential company. I have been in the commercial industry for 4 years now and the residential for almost 8 (In some form or another). Most college kids my age in the CM program are a bunch of arrogant pricks who have no real experience. They come out all high and mighty cause they got a degree, then try to boss the elders around. 
I insist on being properly trained in the field prior to getting any supervision position. I love getting down in the mud and learn hands on, college is great but it only teaches so much. Construction is an industry learned primarily in the field. 
My current foreman has me edit his letters to ensure correct grammar, but he has had one of the best track records for getting projects done on time, below budget and being safe as anyone I have heard of. (It doesn't hurt I'm not a graduate yet, and he appoints me as the recent college grads boss :laughing 
Basically what I'm saying is college is great to a point, but when it comes down to it I believe all majors (architects, engineers and CM students) should work in the field for 2 years before even considering running a job.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

College or not ...


I think most people seem to just reach a certain age - and then they stop learning altogether. They almost backtrack.


I think that's the real tragedy. Not whether you went or not. But the fact that eventually, most of us simply stop learning.



Financial management and planning is a combination of discipline and aptitude. It doesn't even require good math skills, believe it or not.


It's a type of "smart" in itself. Most never catch on - and it has nothing to do with whether or not you went to college or not.


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## MarkmillerConst (Feb 3, 2009)

Boy I must really be the odd one out!!! I have my bachelor's degree in Finance. I couldn't imagine trying to run a business, write a contract, even write a professional letter without what I learned there.

I'd love to see some form of higher education required to get a license. Even a real estate agent has to take some classes.

To prove my point, there sure are a lot of contractors out there who I wouldn't want near my house! Just look at some of the questions asked here by "professionals"

Maybe not a four year college degree, but never stop learning.


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

BirmanBuilders said:


> Being a framer and having a degree in engineering, the engineers don't always get it right. The education is essential, but on the job training is priceless. I have pulled so many Arch's and engineers on things, ie, random lvl's thrown in "just in case", and gravity defying 2nd floors.


The best engineers and architects have hands on experience with what they are working on. I personally think an internship in the trades should be required for a degree in architecture or engineering. I worked with two architect majors this summer that got hired as laborers because they wanted to have some actual hands on knowledge of how to actually build.
I'm a student at Montana State University in Mechanical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering Technology (The MET major is to give me more hands on experience in welding, machining and manufacturing, to give me a leg up in the ME degree.)


> It is however nice to let a condescending architect in on my education, and watch them step back and listen instead of " Well it works on the computer!" I'm a long way from knowing everything, which my wife reminds me of on a daily basis, but I am also willing to listen to anyones opinion. The problem with a lot of educated people is they have no humility, and cannot fathom that a lowly framer might actually be right about something.


One of the best things that you learn in engineering is to listen to everyone because there is probably something out there that they know more about than you do.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

No college here but I am interested in going to night school for business management and the community college. 

If you are a skilled tradesmen, and you are college educated, how in the hell could you possibly go wrong? 

Education is the edge you need to be successful.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Magnettica said:


> No college here but I am interested in going to night school for business management and the community college.
> 
> If you are a skilled tradesmen, and you are college educated, how in the hell could you possibly go wrong?
> 
> Education is the edge you need to be successful.



Mag, good for you :thumbsup: - are you just taking this one class or what??

(might i recommend taking a yoga class? you'll never see so much ass in your life than a college yoga class.:w00t::laughing.


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

Magnettica said:


> No college here but I am interested in going to night school for business management and the community college.
> 
> If you are a skilled tradesmen, and you are college educated, how in the hell could you possibly go wrong?
> 
> Education is the edge you need to be successful.


I couldn't agree with you more. I can see and know all the arguments for and against education and educated people. The only thing I will say is I just read all 5 pages and I have never seen so many so proud of being uneducated and those same people wonder why they get no respect and there is a problem with public perception of trades people.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Bachelors degree in Criminal Justice from Mansfield University. Needless to say, I am still digging dirt.


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## ArmstrCarpentry (Jan 24, 2009)

Was a carpenter until I took a Tech job for winter work - they sent me to trade school and after 2 years of night school (on top of my day job) I got my Associated and became Certified Electronics (debug) tech - worked as engineering tech for about 6 years - over the years my job was sent to China or India 3 times (laid off from 3 different company's) - no more tech jobs for me - I went back to my roots, they cant send finish work over seas. Although I do still miss the easy money and excellent benefits...


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

I came to the country 10 years ago almost without English language but with good knowledge of trade ( master ) and experience. I think everybody knows how many well educated people all over the word work in the trades. But when I see from architects on the drawings 15/16, I just (Roll Eyes)..


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## gallerytungsten (Jul 5, 2007)

*Degrees*

I have a couple degrees. But aside from that, the important thing about higher education is learning how to learn. So that wherever your formal education leaves off, you leave with the ability to learn anything and everything you might want or need to know. Keep learning your whole life!


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## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

Id go to college but then id end up being unemployed .


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## slowforthecones (Aug 24, 2008)

b.s. electrical engineering.. a whole lot of bull****...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

gallerytungsten said:


> But aside from that, the important thing about higher education is learning how to learn.


I think I know what you're trying to say, but that actually comes across as "learning how to be taught". 

Ya gotta give credit to the Hard Knocks guys who have learned how to teach themselves despite the lack of such guidance. I certainly don't recommend that as a preferred approach, because it is circuitous, time-consuming, and lends itself to gaps in one's knowledge. Nevertheless, things learned that way are certainly retained better than the spoon-fed stuff.

OTOH, college does certainly give you the mental framework to be able to research independently much sooner and more efficiently in most cases than the general vagaries of life provide.

I'd love to see some statistics regarding how many people actually spend an extended period of time working in the field for which they studied in college.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

BS/MS in mechanical engineering, and an MBA. Best moment was when I got to sit on the Bud Light zamboni under the stands of Brendan Byrne Arena during graduation. Kidding, although I did sit on the zamboni. Best moment was getting through 5 years of commuting down Irvine Turner Boulevard in Newark NJ without getting a single brick thrown at my car. (Shout out to the guys at the corner of Muhammad Ali Ave and Irvine Turner Boulevard for not shooting me that one time.)


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## BAREBACK (Apr 5, 2007)

Oklahoma state university grad. Here!!


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