# Wavy roof



## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

Good point Chris .......as a general overview. However keep in mind the roofing trade is a little unique compared to everything else required. It may be a case of cutting costs in the wrong place.

When an electrician, plumber, carpenter or what have gouges at a project .....something else has to give.


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

Just because she didn't put on her makeup ......doesn't mean ya shouldn't take her home.


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## dixiedogger (May 18, 2007)

I am in the Nashville TN area so I do not think ice was an issue. The other roof surfaces seem to be ok. This one seems to be the main problem. I have done my best to keep an eye on the rest of the stuff and think it is ok but I must admit this does have me concerned. Another thing I have realized is the way the light hits makes a major difference. I am going to put up another pic I took this morning. You can still see it but not near as obvious.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I think I know what is going on.

The installer did what is called the "racking" method of shingle installation. 

In this manner, they apply the shingles vertically straght up from the eave, rather than stair stepping them.

This causes this type of an objectionable pattern, plus allows for the forgotten nail on every other course, wher the installer has to physically lift up the subsequent tab of a shingle and nail it in place.

Some guys do this on difficult steep set ups and other do this for a "Supposed" faster installation process.

Even when done and nailed correctly, the roof tends to reveal a disturbing vertical pattern every 3 feet or 6 feet, depending on how many shingles across they installed before stating to shingle the remainder upwards.

This is not an acceptable looking roof. It more than likely will create additional bridging and cracking of the shingles during time.

If that is not the proper answer, then the felt paper had gotten wet and then buckled after it was dried by the sun. Either way, it is unacceptable.

Ed


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Certainteed recomends "racking" when installing the "Super Shingles" and the XT 25 and XT 30 shingles. 

My wife called me yesterday while waiting in her vehicle at Menards. She said, "There's a guy in this isle loading up 20 year shingles". I laughed and said it must be a do it yourselfer.

I've seen the Wintergaurd wrinkle on the eaves and caused a bubble but haven't seen the felt cause imperfections in the roof as bad as the pictures.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

I'm sure that when the roofer comes back and re-does it, he'll get it right then.
I think his motto is; "We do it nice, because we do it twice!"


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

I've done what the GC wants before.


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

looks like a reroof.


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

bottom shingle looks to be 4" in the gutter but i think it's just me.


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

roofwiz74 said:


> it is a reroof,no one puts 4" in the gutter.
> differant story now.



can someone Explain that to me further. Where is that in the pic. You mean if you look at the gutters you seen only 4inches on shingle.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Yep, they look straight, but they're not. This is why guys rack 'em. Some, it's the only thing they know and can't learn anything. And others because it looks straighter, but the horizontal lines are normally all over.

Nobody uses 3 tabs anymore and no one should be racking.

This roof is wavy because of a shotty job. Simple as that. Tarpaper is wrinkled, 20 yr. shingles, racking....this wouldn't last 2 years up here.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

It does look kinda like a 2nd layer with that short bottom row. That's not even legal around my area.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Its not a reroof. There is no short bottom row. The gutter in the photo I presume you are referring to is hidong the bottom course.

Look at all of the photos.

Plus, I believe this is a new house being built, so why whould it be a reroof. (Because its a crappy job!!!)

Ed


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## dixiedogger (May 18, 2007)

This is a new home. Because of the angle I took the pictures at you cannot see the shingle overhang the gutter but it is there.


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

oops,still looks like do-do.gotta love how GC's go cheap on roofing materials.Install too.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

MJW said:


> Yep, they look straight, but they're not. This is why guys rack 'em. Some, it's the only thing they know and can't learn anything. And others because it looks straighter, but the horizontal lines are normally all over.
> 
> Nobody uses 3 tabs anymore and no one should be racking.
> 
> This roof is wavy because of a shotty job. Simple as that. Tarpaper is wrinkled, 20 yr. shingles, racking....this wouldn't last 2 years up here.


Certainteed calls for "racking" when installing "Super Shingles". At least acording to the MSA 7th edition.

IMO, when racking three tabs the vertical lines will be straighter than stair stepping. When racking the horizontal lines will not be as straight as stairstepping if running no horizontal chaulk lines. Remember Certainteed calls for a 1/8in tollerance with three tabs, if notching or running off a starter you can loose it either way. When snapping two lines at 6in your starting at perfectly straight lines. Bows and dips really make three tabs run funny. Seen some roofers skip staple or nail when racking, this is a true sign of a hack. Seen some roofer rack laminate shingles, I shake my head.

Agree, there should be no need to install three tabs. In the past two years have only done 10 roofs with three tabs in which case the builder was building entry level homes. On all my tear offs the h/o gets Landmark 30's.

I agree 100%, the "roofer" who roofed this should find himself a night job. It's not that hard to make a gable to gable piece of roof turn out nice.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

It's roofers like this though that make work for good roofers.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I don't know what a "super shingle" is. Not to be too petty, but yes, the 3 tabs have a tolerance and it is 1/16" if I remember right.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Dixie, - - I can almost appreciate that the roof sometimes looks 'better' under certain lighting, - - the problem is, - - the lighting that puts it at it's 'worst' gives the most accurate portrayal of the job.

This sloppy, guaranteed-to-fail roof job would actually scare me much less than the fact that the GC is trying to pawn it off.

I wonder what else he thinks is 'gonna-be-just-fine', - - those things that you can't see . . . 

He has clearly demonstrated to you that he is letting (his own) savings way over-ride any (your future savings) workmanship.

Decide how much you're willing to spend on a zero-level-of-credibility over-all krap-shoot . . .


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

One look at that roof, - - and I could never hire either the the G.C. or the roofer to so much as dig a ditch for me.

It's not so much that the mistakes can't be forgiven, - - it's the denial.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

I've roofed over paper that has gotten wet and wrinkled (originally laid flat), and the shingles have always sat down in a day or two.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

MJW said:


> I don't know what a "super shingle" is. Not to be too petty, but yes, the 3 tabs have a tolerance and it is 1/16" if I remember right.



The Certainteed "Super Shingles" are the,
Centennial Slate, Grand Manor, and Carriage House. The shingles have four tabs.

I think your right about the 1/16in tollerance with the three tabs, it's the Landmarks that are 1/8in.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

dougger222 said:


> The Certainteed "Super Shingles" are the,
> Centennial Slate, Grand Manor, and Carriage House. The shingles have four tabs.
> 
> I think your right about the 1/16in tollerance with the three tabs, it's the Landmarks that are 1/8in.


Sorry to be so anal, but I did check them out. They are listed as super shangles and racking is one method shown. The stair step is also one of the methods shown. I had to check it out because we installed Grand Manors last year and I remembered reading the bag and we put them on in the stair step method. They looked great, but not worth the money if you ask me.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

MJW said:


> Sorry to be so anal, but I did check them out. They are listed as super shangles and racking is one method shown. The stair step is also one of the methods shown. I had to check it out because we installed Grand Manors last year and I remembered reading the bag and we put them on in the stair step method. They looked great, but not worth the money if you ask me.



I was thinking they were Shangles but wasn't sure. Certainteed called there Hearthstead and Horizons shangles and will all the problems one would think they would drop the shangle name.

I ran Hallmarks a few years ago on two houses side by side both oposite of each other. One was racked one was stair stepped both showed equal paterns. Pretty sure the Hallmarks and Independance shingles are also in the same class of shingles as the Horizons and Sealdon's meaning in 15-20 years they will curl.

Gotta hope for $150-190 a square the super shangles will hold up for a long long time. I agree, although the super shangles look really nice they aren't worth the extra money.


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## RidgeWalker (Nov 1, 2006)

Felt isssue, it will never lay down correctly despite the lame excuse the builder is using. Have it fixed or don't buy the home. = )


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I just had to look at this one more time.

After closer analysis, and counting how many tabs there are between the vertical humps, I still think this is a job that was improperly installed via the "Racking" method.

Go ahead and check out the 3 foot spans between the most prolific humps.

I double dog dare you.

Ed


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

why did you have to dddare me?


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

My mind was going bonkers after a novel I had just written in response to a question in the DIYChatroom.com in the roofing section regarding a mystery problem.

Man, did I feel fried after reading her question and all of the details, that is until I got so friggin caught up in answering everything properly, that my response became a friggin book.

Sometimes I just can't control myself. Who else besides me and a few others, really give a hoot, about analizing some obscure problem in such depth over the intenet. 

I needed a different forum just to double dog dare somebody. It always reminds me of the Christmas Story movie, sort of like a little escapism approaching summer time.

Ed


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