# Employee gives his phone number to other subs



## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

Hi, I would need an advice from you guys,


I have a roofing company and my most experienced employee likes to give his phone number to other subs on the job. I have my company signs in the front but other subs ask for his phone number which he gives. He has a lot of his tools and a truck so he can do the job himself If he needs to.

I want him to work weekends, especially if we have rainy days during week, but he doesn't want to work weekends. Even during the work week nice sunny days he takes 1-2 days off days. I saw him working on 2 occasions on the weekends doing his own roofing job ,just by accident, while driving around doing estimates.He said he does it only from time to time not every weekend.

The only reason I still keep him , is because he is the only one who can do flashing work on the chimneys . I fired 2 guys before him who were doing the same thing and he knows that. I can easily replace roofers but it is more difficult to replace guy who can do the chimneys. 

He makes $30/h now, but weekends and sometimes during the work week he works for other subs for cash. 

He knows , that i know, he also knows he can find other job way too easy,if i fire him . He also knows how difficult it is for me to find a replacement if I fire him . I cant pay him more than $30 . Most guys with his experiences make much less and paying him more, i would be losing money on slow days when he does shingle installation instead of chimney flashing.Using a sub for chimneys was very difficult because they wouldn't show up when i needed them , i had to leave brackets on the roof for them etc.



Thank for any help


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Good grief. I guess you work for your employee? 

First, if you can hire anyone to do everything but the flashings, I suppose you know how to train someone to do this? If so, first thing Monday you tell this guy to pack his crap and hit the road. Hire honest, reliable help and train them in the way you want them to work. 

Use the term "banking time" to explain weekends. Work a weekend if you must so you have a day int he bank when weather is bad but they get paid for not working, get it?


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

Find someone else who can flash a chimney and get rid of this guy. ( flashing chimneys isn't that hard)

We all have competitors, But you have yours working for you!

As long as he's passing out his number on your jobs, you are loosing potential jobs to him.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Tough spot.

He has no respect for your needs and little loyalty. Replace him as fast as you can.

Can't you train another member of your staff?

I've had some bad experiences with that sort---train your own guy---I'll bet $100.00 that this arrogant fellow will refuse to train anybody--he would be dooming his exclusive little position.-Mike-


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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

mikeswoods said:


> Tough spot.
> 
> He has no respect for your needs and little loyalty. Replace him as fast as you can.
> 
> ...


Two guys that i fired before ,were trained by me. It took me about 1 year to teach one guy to handle more complex flashing work . They were good workers, but as soon as they started doing chimneys and flashing work, other subs and even other contractors driving around started to ask for their number. I fired both as soon as I found out. Then it took me a while a find this current guy.

My ex-employees would go down from the roof and just gave his number. Both guys that i fired were good guys, but for whatever reason they just couldn't say no when they saw the opportunity to make little extra money . Instead of making $250 a day, they would make $350 a day, but then I had to do the chimneys myself and couldn't spend my time finding new jobs. And subs that i used were are not too reliable. When asked why they did this, they couldn't explain it.

I treat my employees right , many times i would give them bonus if the job is done on time. I talked to other friends and they have the same problems, we eventually end-up reusing the same guys who go from one company to other company.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Either get rid of him or have a policy for everybody that allows side jobs and get everything above board.

My biggest concern is he hasn't been above board about this.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I'll do trim or some framing for friends outside of work on occasion but I have never ever allowed it to interfere with my job in any way. 

If these side jobs of his are interfering with your work schedule then it's time he gets canned. It's a blatant disrespect for you and your business. 

Tough to find reliable help, it seems like buying lottery tickets. Might get a good one but you'll go through a dozen duds before getting there.


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## shesbros (Jun 15, 2005)

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for no working weekends on rainy weeks. (although that's crap). Handing out his number to other subs is a big no no especially if you are keeping him busy.

Having said that the 2nd day he missed work on a sunny weekday to do his own stuff I would have fired him on the spot (over the phone, via text whatever.). Gone. Immediately. He has absolutely no respect for you, your business or what you are trying to do. 

End this immediately before he hurts himself on a side job and hobbles into work Monday morning and pretends to get hurt on one f your jobs.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Either it is your business, or it isn't. You are making excuses for putting up with something that would earn this guy an ass whipping in many parts of the country, like here.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

To shorten everything you just said, this guy is your enemy. He will ruin you. Stand up for yourself and fire him even if you have to get on the roof til you get someone else. Only a fool would put up with this.


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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

hdavis said:


> Either get rid of him or have a policy for everybody that allows side jobs and get everything above board.
> 
> My biggest concern is he hasn't been above board about this.


I have no problem allowing them side jobs, I even let them use company tools and truck on multiple occasions , when we weren't that busy. I have no problem if they work for their friend from time to time . But if they give their own number to other subs on my jobs and dont work for me when I need them , that's a problem .


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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

illbuildit.dd said:


> To shorten everything you just said, this guy is your enemy. He will ruin you. Stand up for yourself and fire him even if you have to get on the roof til you get someone else. Only a fool would put up with this.


You are right , he will be fired soon , but it is getting frustrating to deal with this, 
train -fire,,,train -fire. No problem with roofers, as they they need many tools to do side jobs and a lot of time too. But flashing guy, can make extra money even in half a day, with little tools. Most builders have benders on the jobs ,they that use.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

how about requiring them wear a company shirt with biz name and number on it? 

that could be a problem if you're not insured/legit :whistling


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## Defenestrate (Aug 13, 2015)

johnroofer said:


> I have no problem allowing them side jobs, *I even let them use company tools and truck* on multiple occasions , when we weren't that busy. I have no problem if they work for their friend from time to time . But if they give their own number to other subs on my jobs and dont work for me when I need them , that's a problem .


What?!? 

Being nice is nice, but have you considered the potential liability you're getting yourself into? Even if he was the best employee in the world, I wouldn't want to go bankrupt because he drove over a child or cut his leg off with your saw.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

It is frustrating---but sorting through the chaff to find the wheat is just part of having employees----

This type of employee will ruin the morale of your crew---I've been in your shoes.


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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

72chevy4x4 said:


> how about requiring them wear a company shirt with biz name and number on it?
> 
> that could be a problem if you're not insured/legit :whistling


I'm all legit and insured,but the problem is , the other subs and builders ask specifically for his number to get cheaper price. I have signs in the front with my company. After coming for a week on the same job site , other subs just get his number directly. It shouldn't happen ,but it does all the time. I used to keep my bosses business cards in the wallet and give those even if they insisted of getting my number.


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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

Defenestrate said:


> What?!?
> 
> Being nice is nice, but have you considered the potential liability you're getting yourself into? Even if he was the best employee in the world, I wouldn't want to go bankrupt because he drove over a child or cut his leg off with your saw.


I agree that was a stupid idea, it was a while ago ,last time i did it, just to help a guy out. I don't anymore. Thanks,


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

johnroofer said:


> I have no problem allowing them side jobs, I even let them use company tools and truck on multiple occasions , when we weren't that busy. I have no problem if they work for their friend from time to time . But if they give their own number to other subs on my jobs and dont work for me when I need them , that's a problem .


If they like working for you and all I think it would be better to come up with some kind of incentive for them to bring the job to you to be done. I think letting company equipment being use for them to do their own job is asking for problems. And if they get hurt on one of their side job that can put you in a bind on your jobs. 
Hope it works out for you.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Give a finders fee if he brings the job to you. 30 bucks an hour to do flashing work? Where do I sign up?

I thought this post was a joke at first. He is stabbing you in the back in so many ways. He'd be gone in an instant.

Train, leave, train, leave is just the way it works in this industry.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

VinylHanger said:


> Give a finders fee if he brings the job to you. 30 bucks an hour to do flashing work? Where do I sign up?
> 
> I thought this post was a joke at first. He is stabbing you in the back in so many ways. He'd be gone in an instant.
> 
> ...


Yep, just about the time you get them trained they think they know it all and leave and do it on their own.


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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

Bigheadnick said:


> It doesn't seem like you confronted him about it have u? Confront him man to man and tell him it stops or u will find someone else. He stays with u for a reason so he may be able to find a job elsewhere but the grass isn't always greener on the other side. However if u continue to allow him to market himself on your time eventually he will build enough clientele to leave without hesitation and it won't be on your terms, it will be when u least expect it. Confront him and either he changes or packs up.


He has been with me for about 3 month. I found out what he was doing 2 weeks after i hired him . I told him , not to do this , but he continued anyway hoping i wouldn;t find out. I coudnt fire him in a middle a huge project. For the past month i've been testing new guys , on separate jobs
I tested 3 guys,but their job was to sloppy.
I will let this guy go, and do the job myself, until i can find a replacement.


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## Brad Gunn (Aug 18, 2015)

johnroofer said:


> Hi, I would need an advice from you guys,
> 
> 
> I have a roofing company and my most experienced employee likes to give his phone number to other subs on the job. I have my company signs in the front but other subs ask for his phone number which he gives. He has a lot of his tools and a truck so he can do the job himself If he needs to.
> ...


This is all wrong.

The rule is, if your guy wants to work for people he found/who found him on your job, he brings you in as the contractor, maybe he gets a premium wage, and you get paid for being the contractor. 
Right there, he's priced himself off that job.

Any of your guys approach _your client_, or the other way around, tell them, and tell the client the same, pick who you want to work for: the client, for one job, or you, for the rest of your upcoming jobs.

Trust me, this guy likes his _five thou a month_ steady work. Two side jobs a week, all illegal, liability exposure to himself and clients, tax and licensing risk: he'll learn fast. 
Be a good boss, get him in line.:thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

johnroofer said:


> I told him , not to do this , but he continued anyway hoping i wouldn;t find out. I coudnt fire him in a middle a huge project.


There isn't even a question when you say that - you should have fired him then, so fire him now.


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## C2projects (Jan 9, 2013)

johnroofer said:


> He has been with me for about 3 month. I found out what he was doing 2 weeks after i hired him . I told him , not to do this , but he continued anyway hoping i wouldn;t find out. I coudnt fire him in a middle a huge project. For the past month i've been testing new guys , on separate jobs
> I tested 3 guys,but their job was to sloppy.
> I will let this guy go, and do the job myself, until i can find a replacement.


If you have already talked to him about it can his ass. He has zero respect for you.

Some people need to be shown that the grass really isn't greener on the other side. 

Hire a guy and train him yourself and give him bonuses on jobs he does quickly. Give him incentive to stick around.(Not saying you don't but find someone who actually appreciates it.)


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Never never allow anyone to believe you can't operate without them. Show them right away why they are wrong. Otherwise you will find yourself in a hostage situation. This can all be done nicely but blunt and to the point.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

johnroofer:

Is this guy making you money?

If yes, shutup.

If no, fire him.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Never never allow anyone to believe you can't operate without them. Show them right away why they are wrong. Otherwise you will find yourself in a hostage situation. This can all be done nicely but blunt and to the point.


True story. I will do the work solo before I let anyone even consider if I can or can't do without them


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

I have fired everybody a couple times to make my point


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I'm trying to imagine my boss going back into the field if my mentor and I got fired. I don't think he could, he's too busy with clients and the county. If we did get fired he'd probably have to sub the work out till he found replacements.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I have fired everybody a couple times to make my point



If they were bad enough to fire, why did you rehire them?



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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Mordekyle said:


> If they were bad enough to fire, why did you rehire them?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I didn't


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Kowboy said:


> johnroofer:
> 
> Is this guy making you money?
> 
> ...


Why not cut your balls off and give them to your wife to keep on top of the fridge? 

Some things transcend money, like mutual respect and not being a puss who gets man handled by his employees, or anyone else. 

As long as my name is on the sign at the road my word will be the first and last on my projects. If i give instructions or an order you better have a damn good reason for not doing exactly that or ill have your ass off that site before the truck engine cools down. I dont care who you are, what you have done or how much money you make me.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Never never allow anyone to believe you can't operate without them. Show them right away why they are wrong. Otherwise you will find yourself in a hostage situation. This can all be done nicely but blunt and to the point.


Yes. Either they need to know instintively you will replace them and prefferably that you can do what they do, better. But its not neccesary for all employers. Ive had bosses that couldnt do what their employees could do but it was undoubted he could replace anyone. Quickly. 

Loyalty needs to go two ways. If you are keeping them busy, treating them with respect and paying well you should expect loyalty. If you arent keeping them busy or not paying well you can assume they will do what is necessary to provide for themselves and their families.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Yes. Either they need to know instintively you will replace them and prefferably that you can do what they do, better. But its not neccesary for all employers. Ive had bosses that couldnt do what their employees could do but it was undoubted he could replace anyone. Quickly.
> 
> Loyalty needs to go two ways. If you are keeping them busy, treating them with respect and paying well you should expect loyalty. If you arent keeping them busy or not paying well you can assume they will do what is necessary to provide for themselves and their families.


It's ultimatum's I don't bow too. I pay very well, if a guy comes to me and says what is the next step to making more money with you (I had that question asked like that) I'll give him an honest answer. But if he comes to me and threatens me with quitting, if I don't give him a raise, he's left me no choice but send him off to his perceived greener pastures. Even if I really need him. I can't allow someone to get away with holding my feet to the fire like that. That's what I meant by a "hostage situation". It also sends a message to everyone else. For the record I treat my guys with great respect. I was an employee once and I never forget that and what it was like.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Do you have a solid 40+ hours for him, every week?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Do you have a solid 40+ hours for him, every week?


I read it he was keeping him busy.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I didn't



How can you fire someone twice? 



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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Do you have a solid 40+ hours for him, every week?


Every week yearly 40h/week at least. 

The problem isn't the money .I think its the excitement he is getting out of it. Like when you have some rich kids shoplifting even when they have money in their wallets. The guy I had before him ,did the same thing to me. He knew about the rules, he was fired as soon I caught him on other job. When i asked him why, he coudnt explain it rationally. It wasn't that much more money . 

My ex-roofer called me one tuesday ,saying he was sick and needs off until saturday.
Wednsday afternoon I get a call from a friend ,asking for some work on that big stale job where my guy is doing the chimney . I asked what slate job. And he got fired on the spot.

He was getting paid $30/h from that guy for those 3 days.. I was paying this guy $25/h. I fired him , he went to that guy for 2 weeks and then after project was done, he was without a job for while.


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## Brad Gunn (Aug 18, 2015)

Like I said.
Now, when he comes looking for work, can you turn him around and build a working relationship with him?
How old is this guy anyway?


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## johnroofer (Mar 13, 2016)

Brad Gunn said:


> Like I said.
> Now, when he comes looking for work, can you turn him around and build a working relationship with him?
> How old is this guy anyway?


My ex-roofer who was fired, that was a year ago.I did the work myself after that until i found the current guy. My ex roofer called me after I fired him , crying for job, but I never re-hired him .I can tolerate mistakes, but I cant tolerate when people carefully plan to deceive you. I wouldn't trust that guy ever again. And for what $100-$150 ? that is just stupid. He would have made $30/h with me eventually, he knew that.


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