# Alright how about some dumb questions...



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Since this is not DIY chatroom how about I speak hypothetically...:whistling

So hypothetically speaking if I were installing a tub/shower in my house with a tile surround.

Now lets say I boarded the surround with dens sheild and picked up a bucket of Red Guard from Home Depot.

Would I have to tape the seams then paint on the red guard or will it bridge the joints in the board without taping? 

Thanks in advance!


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Hypothetically speaking....Just follow manufacturer recommendation so your product warranty will not be voided :laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I read the bucket...it said just shove the crap in the cracks but tape with fiberglass on a change on plane. So I would conclude I use fiberglass tape on the corners, then slap the stuff on top and just paint it over the joints?

Or should I fiberglass tape all the joints...

Greg I'm not too worried about my warranty, with my skill set this bathroom isn't going to turn out like the Sistine Chaple. I just want to stop eating sh!t from swmbo over having started so many projects and never finished any.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Hypothetically, get a different membrane or kerdi and always tape/mud your joints per manufaturer recommendations:whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

jhark123 said:


> Hypothetically, get a different membrane or kerdi and always tape/mud your joints per manufaturer recommendations:whistling


Is red guard crap?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

do you couple or uncouple?:detective:


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Is red guard crap?


No, but many feel there are better liquid membranes out there. From what I understand the new and improved Redgard formula is pretty good. I would personally use cement board, and mud and tape all joints and corners with thinset and alkaline resistant mesh tape *if *I were using Redgard...... hypothetically speaking of course. :whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks Greg appreciate it. :thumbsup:

Thought this was funny...up here HD sell the stuff for 89.98 for 1US Gallon, in the US its 45.97.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

HS345 said:


> No, but many feel there are better liquid membranes out there. From what I understand the new and improved Redgard formula is pretty good. I would personally use cement board, and mud and tape all joints and corners with thinset and alkaline resistant mesh tape *if *I were using Redgard...... hypothetically speaking of course. :whistling


CBU, no need to mud the seams, FibaFuse Fiber tape and red gaurd or aqua defense. CBU doesn't allow for much mortar to begin with so the thin layer that you apply will not do much in the way of bonding, no more than the FibaFuse and Liquid membrane, IMO.

Leave the mesh tape for hot mud drywall repairs, the Fiber tape is much stronger, and leaves a smooth finish.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Just used redgaurd for first time...just cause.....worked nice...liked the way it covered....fibatape and redgaurd no thinset .......thumbsup!


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

So there's no confusion, I don't recommend using typical CBU tape when embedding tape directly into liquid.
*NOT* this stuff:









If you are going to embed tape directly into a liquid membrane, instead of using the larger hole mesh, try using Fibafuse. It's also fiberglass but has a much smaller woven pattern. It will still allow the liquid to penetrate but will give you much better coverage with 2 coats.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> CBU, no need to mud the seams, FibaFuse Fiber tape and red gaurd or aqua defense. CBU doesn't allow for much mortar to begin with so the thin layer that you apply will not do much in the way of bonding, no more than the FibaFuse and Liquid membrane, IMO.
> 
> Leave the mesh tape for hot mud drywall repairs, the Fiber tape is much stronger, and leaves a smooth finish.


Mesh tape of the alkaline resistant variety, which is manufactured by the cement board companies for the sole purpose of taping cbu with thinset, is plenty strong. 

Fibafuse is drywall tape.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

angus242 said:


> So there's no confusion, I don't recommend using typical CBU tape when embedding tape directly into liquid.
> *NOT* this stuff:
> 
> 
> ...


I don't disagree, the mesh tape is strictly for imbedding with thinset.

Although, a quick google search for Fibafuse shows it to be a drywall tape. If I were going to imbed a fiberglass tape into liquid, I would use one intended specifically for that purpose.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Is Fibafuse available at any run-of-the-mill hardware store or is it a special order kinda product?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

It's like using Versabond with Ditra. Sometimes, the installers have ways that are more efficient. I did some research and the Fibafuse states it's alkali-resistant. Screwing around in my own bathroom, I found it to be very easy to work with and as long as you aren't bridging more than 1/8" gaps, it works. 

Minoxidil (Rogaine), Silly Putty and WD-40 were all invented for different reasons than the uses we know of today. It's not that far of a stretch going from fiberglass drywall tape to liquid membrane reinforcement.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

angus242 said:


> It's like using Versabond with Ditra. Sometimes, the installers have ways that are more efficient. I did some research and the Fibafuse states it's alkali-resistant. Screwing around in my own bathroom, I found it to be very easy to work with and as long as you aren't bridging more than 1/8" gaps, it works.
> 
> Minoxidil (Rogaine), Silly Putty and WD-40 were all invented for different reasons than the uses we know of today. It's not that far of a stretch going from fiberglass drywall tape to liquid membrane reinforcement.


Just like Coca-Cola. :thumbsup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> Is Fibafuse available at any run-of-the-mill hardware store or is it a special order kinda product?


It's stocked at my local box stores.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

HS345 said:


> Mesh tape of the alkaline resistant variety, which is manufactured by the cement board companies for the sole purpose of taping cbu with thinset, is plenty strong.
> 
> Fibafuse is drywall tape.


Depends on what you are refering to. Fibafuse fiber is made of fiber glass and is better for liquid membrane than mesh.

And I was not referring to the strength of the tape, but the joint after thinsetting. IMO, it isn't necessary to mortar the joint with use mesh tape when the FibaFuse Fiber tape and liquid membrane is a better solution. You have to waterproof the CBU regardless, why go through the extra step of thinset and add any thickness to your joint?


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Why would you redguard DensShield, since it already has a moisture barrier? The last shower that I (hypothetically) tiled, I installed DensShield, taped the seams with Straight-Flex Tile-Tape, dabbed Redguard on the screw heads and was done.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I believe he's referring to the seams and screw holes.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

angus242 said:


> I believe he's referring to the seams and screw holes.


Oh. I'm out of sorts tonight, wife drank all the tequila. Carry on.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

angus242 said:


> So there's no confusion, I don't recommend using typical CBU tape when embedding tape directly into liquid.
> NOT this stuff:
> 
> If you are going to embed tape directly into a liquid membrane, instead of using the larger hole mesh, try using Fibafuse. It's also fiberglass but has a much smaller woven pattern. It will still allow the liquid to penetrate but will give you much better coverage with 2 coats.


Definitely agree,although I used fibatape earlier this week,its only because I couldn't find the other stuff. Had to triple coat to make sure I Had proper coverage. Gotta find the smaller mesh for next shower gig.......thumbsup!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Groutface said:


> Definitely agree,although I used fibatape earlier this week,its only because I couldn't find the other stuff. Had to triple coat to make sure I Had proper coverage. Gotta find the smaller mesh for next shower gig.......thumbsup!


I triple coat the seams regardless...:thumbsup:


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I triple coat the seams regardless...:thumbsup:


Nice! My first time not thinsetting first.....love it!


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Alright ,so I found a fibatape product that has about 75% smaller holes than the regular green tape and is made of fiber glass. All I could find ,and neither of my suppliers have the mapei mesh . So I think this is what will work like fiba fuse. I didnt take a pic of mesh holes. Will get a pic tomorrow to see what u think!


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

K so here is a DUMB question.....if you are covering yer mesh with a roll on membrane of any sort,does the tape still have to be alkalai resistant?


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

What do you think? 









Good enuf to embed in waterproofing? I know its not fibafuse,I'm still lookin!


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Just me eh? Cool.....lol


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Groutface said:


> What do you think?
> 
> View attachment 71489
> 
> ...


I would feel uncomfortable imbedding drywall tape into a liquid membrane, which is what Fibafuse is too. 

Why not simply use the materials spec'd by the manufacturer? What liquid do you use?


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

HS345 said:


> I would feel uncomfortable imbedding drywall tape into a liquid membrane, which is what Fibafuse is too.
> 
> Why not simply use the materials spec'd by the manufacturer? What liquid do you use?


Mapei hpg,new formula redgaurd.....it seems like pulling teeth to get my supplier to order the proper mapelatic mesh...i dont get it


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Groutface said:


> Mapei hpg,new formula redgaurd.....it seems like pulling teeth to get my supplier to order the proper mapelatic mesh...i dont get it


Are there no online suppliers?


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

HS345 said:


> Are there no online suppliers?


just left there....got him to order some 1 x150 rolls...problem solved


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Groutface said:


> just left there....got him to order some 1 x150 rolls...problem solved


Excellent! :thumbsup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

HS345 said:


> I would feel uncomfortable imbedding drywall tape into a liquid membrane, which is what Fibafuse is too.


Why? It's fiberglass, alkali resistant, mold resistant and has the perfect woven pattern to allow AquaDefense to penetrate without sagging and having pin holes open up.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Why? It's fiberglass, alkali resistant, mold resistant and has the perfect woven pattern to allow AquaDefense to penetrate without sagging and having pin holes open up.


Fibafuse is alkali resistant?

Also, why would you want to use such a narrow piece of reinforcement?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks for the hypothetical advice gentlemen.

Here's a digital representation of what I believe it will turn out like:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Well,

I don't use mesh to create support. I use it to help the liquid bridge a gap with fewer coats. I stick to the 1/8" and under gap rule. If I end up with a large gap (uneven framing, bad CBU cut, etc), I will use proper tape and thinset for the gap and liquid over when it's OK. 

Yes, I read somewhere that FibaFuse was alkali resistant. I should have noted the source but I didn't. Regardless as I would never use it as a thinset reinforcement. It embeds in liquid and doesn't get to see thinset.

I am a pretty conservative guy when it comes to tiling and wouldn't go sticking my neck out unless I feel real good about something. To this day, I'll still use Kerabond to install tile over Ditra. I got this idea when I was waiting for thinset to slake and reading the Mapei Mapeband instructions. It says to embed in AquaDefense. I guess maybe I'm too used to Kerdi where it gets embedded in thinset. So I tried one of these and embedded in AquaDefense. It worked great:









PM me you address again and I'll send you a length of FibaFuse. You can try it yourself the next time you're using HydroBan. It soaks in really, really well.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Good enuf to embed in waterproofing? I know its not fibafuse,I'm still lookin!


That's what I used, couldn't find fibafuse in HD.

I troweled on a coating of RG, let it set, stuck the tape on, troweled on another coat, let it dry, then brushed on another coat.

I think I'll brush one more on and call it a day.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> That's what I used, couldn't find fibafuse in HD.
> 
> I troweled on a coating of RG, let it set, stuck the tape on, troweled on another coat, let it dry, then brushed on another coat.
> 
> I think I'll brush one more on and call it a day.


should be good to go........the tape has perfect hole size but doesnt boast alkalai resistance.....downloaded the pdf on all fibatape products and its the same material,only the alkalai resistant stuff has a coating(waterproofing?) ......i think yet safe.....but I just ordered a bunch of mapeis fibertape for rest of jobs as for fibafuse,can't even order it from any big box or Ma and pa hardware......online only.....thumbsup


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

OK my mapelastic fiber tape came in and the holes are about 40% bigger than the concrete board green tape. Guess it doesnt matter about the hole size....


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dig around on the Laticrete site. I believe they have an option to design the system for you too. Not saying you can't or that the bathroom is so big it will be a challenge but it's a nice option so instead, you can go have cocktails on the veranda while they are doing the work for you :drink:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Dig around on the Laticrete site. I believe they have an option to design the system for you too. Not saying you can't or that the bathroom is so big it will be a challenge but it's a nice option so instead, you can go have cocktails on the veranda while they are doing the work for you :drink:


I've spent so much time drinking cocktails that this bathroom has taken me three years...I should have just hired someone ages ago but at this point I've invested too much time reading contractor talk to turn my back on it. :laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

If this doesn't go well I'll need a decent jackhammer and a good lawyer to save my half of the house. :laughing:


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

I don't know the price of mapei milk but, if you can't get it the eco prim grip is an ideal primer for mapei slc's. Dries pretty fast also....


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

It appears as thought Emerald tile is the sole local laticrete supplier...

I arrive and ask for a 10 square foot floor warming mat with thermostat...she goes to the back to check...few min later 

"we have 2x 6 square foot mats you can joint together"

- Uhh...I'm pretty sure the different legnths have a different resistance...I don't think they just plug together

"ohh"

-does your other location have any?

"Lemme call...No they don't"

-Can you order it?

"Yeah...but it will take me a week to request the price and another week to get the order in...so two weeks"

-You can't look up the price or call them now?

"No...I have to request it from laticrete"

So gents...is the lady at Emerald Tile a complete moron or is Laticrete just a crap company to deal with?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Emerald lady is dumb.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Heating mat is installed, ended up getting a home depot "true comfort" fiberglass mat. I put metal lath everywhere else where there was no mat. Primed with primer t poured 2 50 pound bags of Novoplane 2 ontop and it looks great.

I was surprised how nice the self-leveling stuff was to work with...except for a spot where I didn't foam around the water line for the toilet...but I caught that in time.

I'm having a slightly difficult time finding the "Ultraflex LFT" that Angus recommends...I can get Ultraflex 1 & 2 but from the instructions on them I don't think they are to be used with larger than a 1/4 x 3/8 trowel...

Any other appropriate thin set or should I order a bag of LFT?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I would hold out for the large-format tile thinset and order the LFT. Can you get Laticrete products? 4XLT would be great too. 

Ordering thinset isn't a big deal as that way, you're guaranteed fresh bags.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

angus242 said:


> I would hold out for the large-format tile thinset and order the LFT. Can you get Laticrete products? 4XLT would be great too.
> 
> Ordering thinset isn't a big deal as that way, you're guaranteed fresh bags.


Thank you for the quick response!

Ill call around Tuesday, I can get Laticrete from Emerald, Mapie is available at Cerapolis, Rona & Lowes...someone in this city must be installing large tiles except for me. :laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

This is becoming more difficult than expected.

UltraFlex LFT appears to be unobtanium...Laticrete 4-XLT isn't a stocked item for emerald so they won't order it in. :blink:

One of the largest suppliers carries a li ne called "PROMA" and also some products from "Custom"...which appears to be the same brand Home Depot carries.


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