# What is the problem?



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

OK here is a situation I encountered with the water coming out of the heater being luck warm, and not hot at all.

To the right is a solar heating system, thermostats set correct, elements test out fine, dip tube is ok, solar is closed so solar not is use this time of year. I show up and think we have bad stats or they have just went bad, replaced the stats and leave, next day callback, same problem luck warm water only, no recirc on the house. 

So who know what the problem is? Take your best guess.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

All fixtures in house pull luck warm, although the electric heater is at the correct temp, there is no known cross over.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Possibly a fouled check on a thermostatic or pressure balancing valve, or a valve failure on the solar loop. Is there a return pump, or is the return from the solar panels gravity?


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Panels are gravity, no pump on the system.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

All valves in the house are functioning properly, no malfunctions.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

This is a great problem solution if anyone ever encounters it, once I reveal what the problem was.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Anyone whos' installed a solar system would probably know the solution, not sure many on here do solar installs, but it's a good to know solution. it through me for a loop, I solved it in 2 mins after I had to return.


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## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Anyone whos' installed a solar system would probably know the solution, not sure many on here do solar installs, but it's a good to know solution. it through me for a loop, I solved it in 2 mins after I had to return.


CLOUDY DAY IN ORAGON.:clap:OOPS! OREGON:thumbsup:


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Possibly a fouled check on a thermostatic or pressure balancing valve, or a valve failure on the solar loop. Is there a return pump, or is the return from the solar panels gravity?


Hey KTS your close to the problem, or you might have nailed it, there is a tempering valve at the water heater that will mix cold water with the hot water, this is needed to cool the water coming from the panels before it enters the house, what had happened is the tempering valve malfunctioned, so what I did when I got there the second time around, I had the HO turn on the hot water at kitchen, and while I felt the outlet pipe at heater, at 1st it allowed hot to flow and not but a few seconds after that it turned cool, while standing there I decided to turn the tempering valve up and down on the dial, and thats caused it start working again. Hot water to house was restored.

So if anyone happens to come across a hot water heating problem and HO complains they has luck warm water only, and you see solar there, look for the tempering valve, that could be the problem.

Just thought I'd pass on what I ran up against. Just Good FYI.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

PARA1 said:


> CLOUDY DAY IN ORAGON.:clap:OOPS! OREGON:thumbsup:


Yes most of the time :laughing:

Why do HO'er want solar in a place like this?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Hey KTS your close to the problem, or you might have nailed it, there is a tempering valve at the water heater that will mix cold water with the hot water, this is needed to cool the water coming from the panels before it enters the house, what had happened is the tempering valve malfunctioned, so what I did when I got there the second time around, I had the HO turn on the hot water at kitchen, and while I felt the outlet pipe at heater, at 1st it allowed hot to flow and not but a few seconds after that it turned cool, while standing there I decided to turn the tempering valve up and down on the dial, and thats caused it start working again. Hot water to house was restored.
> 
> So if anyone happens to come across a hot water heating problem and HO complains they has luck warm water only, and you see solar there, look for the tempering valve, that could be the problem.
> 
> Just thought I'd pass on what I ran up against. Just Good FYI.


I didn't nail it, but I was close. The thermostatic mixing valves we install for tubs/showers have checks in them, since they are constantly live, they are a tempering valve, and they need to be re-calibrated occasionally, and they are notorious for fouled check valves. I'll try to remember to take some pics of the condo I am working on now and post them, it has five thermostatic valves.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> I didn't nail it, but I was close. The thermostatic mixing valves we install for tubs/showers have checks in them, since they are constantly live, they are a tempering valve, and they need to be re-calibrated occasionally, and they are notorious for fouled check valves. I'll try to remember to take some pics of the condo I am working on now and post them, it has five thermostatic valves.


 
That is SOOO true. I have seen that countless times. I also seem to be seeing my fair share of damaged thermo cartridges from installers not pulling it before sweating them in. Even the ceramic can easily foul out from the heat. I have a job comming up which involves opening up a wall and removing a tempering valve that went bad.....why was it inwall? stupid is as stupid does...


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

JamesNLA said:


> That is SOOO true. I have seen that countless times. I also seem to be seeing my fair share of damaged thermo cartridges from installers not pulling it before sweating them in. Even the ceramic can easily foul out from the heat. I have a job comming up which involves opening up a wall and removing a tempering valve that went bad.....why was it inwall? stupid is as stupid does...


The only sweat valves I have installed recently were Waterworks pressure balance valves,95% of the valves we install are 3/4 IPS, I think it is from European countries not using copper pipe.


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> The only sweat valves I have installed recently were Waterworks pressure balance valves,95% of the valves we install are 3/4 IPS, I think it is from European countries not using copper pipe.


What is the flow rate or did the code get massaged?


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Hey KTS your close to the problem, or you might have nailed it, there is a tempering valve at the water heater that will mix cold water with the hot water, this is needed to cool the water coming from the panels before it enters the house, what had happened is the tempering valve malfunctioned, so what I did when I got there the second time around, I had the HO turn on the hot water at kitchen, and while I felt the outlet pipe at heater, at 1st it allowed hot to flow and not but a few seconds after that it turned cool, while standing there I decided to turn the tempering valve up and down on the dial, and thats caused it start working again. Hot water to house was restored.
> 
> So if anyone happens to come across a hot water heating problem and HO complains they has luck warm water only, and you see solar there, look for the tempering valve, that could be the problem.
> 
> Just thought I'd pass on what I ran up against. Just Good FYI.



How much did you get for replacing the tempering valve? If you didn't replace it you know your going back, right?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

smellslike$tome said:


> What is the flow rate or did the code get massaged?


Flow rate is restricted at the control valve, not the thermostatic valve, if it is a pressure balance valve they are 1/2" valves with small ports.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

smellslike$tome said:


> How much did you get for replacing the tempering valve? If you didn't replace it you know your going back, right?


Tempering valves can be serviced without replacing them.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Did not replace it, not going back, they can be rebuilt you know. Ho has not called to say it is still a problem. This is the one.

Watts L70A

Features
• Brass valve bodies
• Simple maintenance thermostat
assembly is easily removed and
replaceable as a unit
• “Finger Tip” Dial adjustment cap
• Sweat or threaded connections
• Stainless steel springs


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Did not replace it, not going back, they can be rebuilt you know. Ho has not called to say it is still a problem. This is the one.
> 
> Watts L70A
> 
> ...


When you talk of tempering valves, I picture this.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> When you talk of tempering valves, I picture this.



Oh no, what you see it what was there, that is what I talking about.


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