# I'm disappointed in SW Pro Classic latex



## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Here's the deal, I'm painting a family friends house. The trim was never prepped correctly from the start, we've had to caulk and sand ALL door jambs and baseboards. The trim actually just had flat wall paint on it, it was the same color as the walls. 

Of course I come in and shoot my line about SW Pro Classic and how beautiful it will look. We've had to give this trim two coats of paint, which I thought would cover in one. It had antique white flat on it before. I'm a little disappointed it didn't cover any better in the first coat and also the semigloss doesn't really have the shine it should. It looks like a good quality satin finish to me. My buddy, who's a twenty year pro asked me if it was satin. Of course I cut the gallon using floetrol because the stuff won't brush out if you don't. 

I love the oil base Pro Classic, but with the phase out of oil products I'm really scrambling now to find a top quality latex trim paint. Anyone else feel a little anxiety over oil being phased out. Benjamin Moore isn't really an option because it's twenty five miles away from my house.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

I don't spray,but I love ProClassic!
Best latex trim I've ever come across.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

We have discussed ProClassic latex in great detail in another thread actually. 
And yes I am fearful of losing solvent based materials it is going to change the way I paint. If it ruins my ability to paint I will leave the field and let Home Depot turn every retarded homeowner into a professional painter with a Saturday class on masking with tape...

ffs.
homeowners that think they can paint and the box stores that can "help".


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Do you cut it with floetrol or water? I've found that it needs to be cut with floetrol but still thickens up as the day wears on. I've never been able to just brush it straight out of the can which I cut all my paints anyway. 

Maybe I'll switch to the gloss Pro Classic, I've long thought their semigloss is not quite the sheen it should be. To me it's a satin paint in semigloss labeling.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Latex never has the same sheen build as the awesome alkyds do, I have only used floetrol once and I wasn't able to find a happy medium before I trashed the gallon of paint I use water in ceiling flat material if I only need a gallon more to finish. I would use gloss latex to finish with a satin/semi sheen.


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Wise,
You're absolutely correct, the oil sheen is just night and day different than any wb products I've used. There is one water product from Porter paints that is very good stuff. It's called Acrylic Eggshell Semigloss and sells for 30-35 a gallon to the pro's, 45-50 to the HO's. This stuff is the bomb and maybe I'll start slinging it, although I promised myself years ago that Porter wouldn't get my business. The name is deceiving but it is a semigloss paint which is probably the best trim paint I've used.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

I have just started using Porter since I moved into one of their districts. The interior leaves much to be desired from what I have seen, but I do respect their elastomeric exterior product.
It is tough for me to break with SW, I feel dirty however there are some paint manufacturers that have a superior product sometimes.


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Their interior wall paints are second tier compared to SW, they don't seem to cover as well or tu as well. Their one interior product I really like is the trim paint I mentioned. They do have some nice exterior paints and stains though.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Dorman Painting said:


> Their interior wall paints are second tier compared to SW, they don't seem to cover as well or tu as well. Their one interior product I really like is the trim paint I mentioned. They do have some nice exterior paints and stains though.



I was so frustrated when the Hides All didn't hide diddly squat that I called the manager and asked him what the story was. I threw SW in his face and he said that Porter paint has a much lower titanium oxide content than SW's "Pure White" base. I respected his professional and quite honest no frills answer, he nailed it without pause.
I wouldn't mind checking out a Porter product that is highly recommended.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

I made the switch from oil to waterbourne about 4 years ago and it was a tough switch. It took awhile to get use to the lack of sheen and the overall difference in oil. I have gone through many different trim paints while trying to find a good one. I used manor hall for awhile along with super paint. These days i use ICI Dulux for my trim. It is a good finish paint. 
You just have to adjust in this business, be willing to switch up your game and try something different. Oil is being phased out and once you get used to the waterbournes they sort of grow on you.



WisePainter said:


> I wouldn't mind checking out a Porter product that is highly recommended.


I used to use Pittsburgh industrial enamel oil for years. Great finish. Shoot a couple shots of black in it to retard the yellowing process.
porters glyptex is suppose to be a great product.


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## Traditions2 (Jul 3, 2008)

dorman, I completely agree with the sheen levels. I always tell the client if they want a sheen go with gloss pro classic. the semi gloss in my opinion looks to have about the same sheen as my satin wall paints. some people don't care for the glossy look. I love proclassic because I feel like it levels out real well. However, I always do two coats. If I am spraying over white I could probably get by with one. However, almost always we two coat proclassic to get the desired look. Just my 2 cent.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I made the switch from oil to waterbourne about 4 years ago and it was a tough switch. It took awhile to get use to the lack of sheen and the overall difference in oil. I have gone through many different trim paints while trying to find a good one. I used manor hall for awhile along with super paint. These days i use ICI Dulux for my trim. It is a good finish paint.
> You just have to adjust in this business, be willing to switch up your game and try something different. Oil is being phased out and once you get used to the waterbournes they sort of grow on you.
> 
> 
> ...


It took me so long to find products that work best for me though.
I guess the first thing I will appreciate about all water based materials is the clean up time I will save at the pump. 
And the lack of charges for mineral spirits or lacquer thinner to use for cleaning.

What about lacquers though? Nothing is more awesome than a clear lacquer finish.


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

sw duration!

screw that Pro Classic Latex (unless i can spray it)


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

vandyandsons said:


> sw duration!
> 
> screw that Pro Classic Latex (unless i can spray it)



no. 

and yes.

I mentioned to my new SW manager that Duration was another way SW can suck money from customer's wallets without offering a better product.

She agreed.
It might as well be SuperPaint re~packaged and sold as Duration for 10 more dollars.
Classic99 satin is actually ProMar200 re~packaged.

SW is sneaky that way.

:shifty:


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

i've never heard that about Duration. and i dont want to believe it because i love me some Duration.

i've also never really used Superpaint on interior trim, but now i'll try it.

now i know that Exterior Duration and Ext Superpaint arent even on the same radar.


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

I've always heard that Classic99 was/is the same thing as Pro Mar 200 repackaged. That said, I've only used it one time and I'm not sure why they still sell it. Most pros I know use the pro mar or superpaint grades. I may try the Classic99 though if I can get a better price.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Dorman Painting said:


> I've always heard that Classic99 was/is the same thing as Pro Mar 200 repackaged. That said, I've only used it one time and I'm not sure why they still sell it. Most pros I know use the pro mar or superpaint grades. I may try the Classic99 though if I can get a better price.


I have done very well with the Classic99 flat and satin sheens for walls, and the ProMar 200 flat for ceilings.
This year I am going to switch up a notch and ease into a new system. SuperPaint flat/satin walls, and Classic99 flat for ceilings. If you have really high ceilings and don't want to mess around for too long up there use Classic99 flat. 
1 coat and you are down.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

vandyandsons said:


> i've never heard that about Duration. and i dont want to believe it because i love me some Duration.
> 
> i've also never really used Superpaint on interior trim, but now i'll try it.
> 
> now i know that Exterior Duration and Ext Superpaint arent even on the same radar.



Sorry bud, Sherwin Williams is the epitome of evil.
When your company has been around long before Ford and will be around long_ after_ Ford, you are slicker than...well you know. They are obviously masters of the business realm and will therefor do what is necessary to stay alive.

Gawd I love that!!!

:thumbup:


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> It took me so long to find products that work best for me though.
> I guess the first thing I will appreciate about all water based materials is the clean up time I will save at the pump.
> And the lack of charges for mineral spirits or lacquer thinner to use for cleaning.
> 
> What about lacquers though? Nothing is more awesome than a clear lacquer finish.


 Lacquer is sweet
Yes it is nice not to be buying paint thinner all the time these days. Pretty good savings over all.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I've noticed that the SW WB Pro Classic satin isnt really a satin also. Has more of a low lustre melamine sheen. Think I'm going to try a few test panels with the semi-gloss to see how it turns out.
I havent had any problems with brushing the product either. I just add Floetrol or XIM Extender; think I like the XIM product better.

I've switched to probably 95% SW products over the years, and other than a few application adjustments I havent had any problems. You guys might want to try CHB White on ceilings, the stuff is real nice. I also use it as a primer on new drywall and wall repairs.

Just finished a basement using Sher-Pro Flat as that is what the customer had used when the house was built. That came out real nice too. Used a 14" roller with a wool 3/4 nap.

Quick question for Wise: Do they make the Colosuss for a 14" frame?


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Quick question for Wise: Do they make the Colosuss for a 14" frame?


If they do I haven't yet seen it, but I am pretty sure so far that the 9" is the only available frame.
In 2 different diameter sizes.
I don't like that, I get confused and grab the wrong size only to trek back out the work truck to get the right one. Customers become a bit irritated by the 40th trip you make in and out of their house just because you "forgot" something.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Yeah I've seen the different diameters. Most of the SW's here got rid of the Super Colosuss frames and covers. At my age the customers dont even ask why all the treks to the truck and back, even when I get out there and forgot what I was going for and come back empty-handed! God...sometimes I love getting old....:wheelchair:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Wolfgang said:


> .....At my age the customers dont even ask why all the treks to the truck and back, even when I get out there and forgot what I was going for and come back empty-handed! God...sometimes I love getting old....:wheelchair:


And the farther it is to the truck
the more time to forget.


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## Damon T (Oct 13, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Sorry bud, Sherwin Williams is the epitome of evil.
> When your company has been around long before Ford and will be around long_ after_ Ford, you are slicker than...well you know. They are obviously masters of the business realm and will therefor do what is necessary to stay alive.
> 
> Gawd I love that!!!
> ...


Wise,
Any evidence for such a statement? Does this mean that any company that puts a lot of time into training its people and building a successful operation is evil? There might be some good projections / judgments to look at for you. A friend of mine tends to think anyone with money is part of the evil empire, and yet he doesn't have a penny to his name. Sort of a self fulfulling prophecy. 
Take it or leave it. No offense.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Damon T said:


> Wise,
> Any evidence for such a statement? Does this mean that any company that puts a lot of time into training its people and building a successful operation is evil? There might be some good projections / judgments to look at for you. A friend of mine tends to think anyone with money is part of the evil empire, and yet he doesn't have a penny to his name. Sort of a self fulfulling prophecy.
> Take it or leave it. No offense.



Easy tiger, I worked at one for about a year back in the 90's and it was an "eye opener".
By the way your friend called and told me nothing annoys you more than a person who complains about corporations and how the faceless evil must be stopped.
Apparently he was right...


:laughing:


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## Damon T (Oct 13, 2008)

too true. Of course I've always thought their logo of paint dripping over the earth was messed up! Not exactly eco-friendly.

peace out.
dt


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Damon T said:


> too true. Of course I've always thought their logo of paint dripping over the earth was messed up! Not exactly eco-friendly.
> 
> peace out.
> dt



Hippie.


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