# First coat?



## NCFHOME (Dec 7, 2014)

I am not a professional by any means but I feel that my drywall work is pretty good. We end up doing a lot of patch work and hanging a few sheets ourselves. It's just too hard to get pros in for piece work. I am always trying to better my work. I am no good with paper tape. I use the mess tape and seems to work fine. I will try fibafuse but that's another story. Anyway several weeks after I sometimes end up with an offset at a joint line or even a fine crack. I have never had this with factory joints. Just rough but joints with a larger gap to fill with mud. It's hard to describe but it's like one of the sheets swells up thicker. I use the green top for the first coat and purple or blue for the second and third coat. I have been talking to my painter a out theses issues and he thinks it's because I don't use durabond for the first coat. What do you guys think the problem is. The first coat if mud, the tape or a little but of both? I'm open to all arguments. Anything to better my work


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## Bummie (May 11, 2007)

Keep your butt joints as factory cuts as much as possible. i.e. Cut end go into corner. 6 or 8 screws on the end of each sheet and you can cut the butt ends of your sheet on a slight bevel. I would try prefilling with Durabond if I had that problem. Never have though!! Been dry walling for 40 plus years!

Are your studs under the butt joint straight?? Butt joints reasonably flat before taping?? 

Try to use paper tape. Not that hard to learn. Thin your mud and put on lots when taping as you can wipe off the excess. No air pockets or wrinkles when you wipe tapes. Should be good to go!! *Let mud dry before top coating!!*


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

I agree with your painter, you want to use a setting/hot mud for at least the first coat with mesh tape.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Yes, use hot mud with mesh tape. Mesh tape doesn't have the strength of paper for shear, unless it has the harder hot mud to stiffen it up


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

I am not a pro drywaller but like you I finish enough to be decent. I too would suggest the setting type mud for mesh tape.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Oh My!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

NCFHOME said:


> I am not a professional by any means but I feel that my drywall work is pretty good. We end up doing a lot of patch work and hanging a few sheets ourselves. It's just too hard to get pros in for piece work. I am always trying to better my work. I am no good with paper tape. I use the mess tape and seems to work fine. I will try fibafuse but that's another story. Anyway several weeks after I sometimes end up with an offset at a joint line or even a fine crack. I have never had this with factory joints. Just rough but joints with a larger gap to fill with mud. It's hard to describe but it's like one of the sheets swells up thicker. I use the green top for the first coat and purple or blue for the second and third coat. I have been talking to my painter a out theses issues and he thinks it's because I don't use durabond for the first coat. What do you guys think the problem is. The first coat if mud, the tape or a little but of both? I'm open to all arguments. Anything to better my work


 I need more. What board brand . Did you v the fuzz off the butts ?

Mesh tape is what good drywall Contractors use when the porto john runs out of paper . [kiss my ass big shoe!]


Bottom line ... Any loose paper is a blister. [remember that] ...... This Is simple info . Apply your [paper]tape with hot mud [any set type] after all loose factory fuzz is removed . The purple and blue [l/w] muds are horse ****!! 





Tape with 90 min [or any set time ] with paper . Then finish off with any A/P of your liking . Stay away from the L/W muds.


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## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

while we're on the topic... blacktop, I've never really used hot mud before and I always thought it was for when you had limited time to build up several coats. But I've been lead to believe that it still has the same dry time as other mud, just stiffens quick. Is this correct? I'm no professing mud meister, just get white boogers on small renos sometimes..


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## NCFHOME (Dec 7, 2014)

Bummie said:


> Keep your butt joints as factory cuts as much as possible. i.e. Cut end go into corner. 6 or 8 screws on the end of each sheet and you can cut the butt ends of your sheet on a slight bevel. I would try prefilling with Durabond if I had that problem. Never have though!! Been dry walling for 40 plus years!
> 
> Are your studs under the butt joint straight?? Butt joints reasonably flat before taping??
> 
> Try to use paper tape. Not that hard to learn. Thin your mud and put on lots when taping as you can wipe off the excess. No air pockets or wrinkles when you wipe tapes. Should be good to go!! *Let mud dry before top coating!!*


I think I have a bit of all three situations going on. The sheetrock hang should have been very simple. Three sheets side by side factory joint to factory joint with the rip edge in the corner. I left this simple task to my still learning crew and came back to a real ****** up situation. I wasn't happy but just needed to carry on the get the job done. Anyway ended up with two full sheets on the side with a 24" wide rough cut panel in the center. So two rough cuts against factory bevel. Everything was glued and the screws at the seems were every 8". So I guess the places I went wrong were:

1. mess tape on a wide rough gap
2.green top mud
3. putting fan on it to speed the drying time. The surface of the mud probably skimmed over and the mud in gap must have still been wet.


As far as the mud choice goes. Should I use hot mud for the paper tape as well? What mud and do you prefer for each coat. Ill do my best to give up on mesh and use the real stuff.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

NCFHOME said:


> So two rough cuts against factory bevel.


Did they hang vertical?


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## NCFHOME (Dec 7, 2014)

Golden view said:


> Did they hang vertical?


Actually the first mistake was letting them do it.

No it was a ceiling in a bathroom 10' x 12' with the joist running the 12' direction. Like I said shoulda been easy hang with 2 full sheets and a partial. Had 12' sheets so no but joints. Ended up with one of those also


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## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

NCFHOME said:


> Actually the first mistake was letting them do it.
> 
> No it was a ceiling in a bathroom 10' x 12' with the joist running the 12' direction. Like I said shoulda been easy hang with 2 full sheets and a partial. Had 12' sheets so no but joints. Ended up with one of those also


probably first mistake was not showing them how...


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

We use Durabond 90 to set the tape and for the next coat.No sanding .Just scrape with knife.Then thinned topping for the final coat.Never have a issue.Not drywall guys.Remodelers but a big part of ours is drywall.


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## NCFHOME (Dec 7, 2014)

mako1 said:


> We use Durabond 90 to set the tape and for the next coat.No sanding .Just scrape with knife.Then thinned topping for the final coat.Never have a issue.Not drywall guys.Remodelers but a big part of ours is drywall.



I have seen a pro mix the durabond 90 with the green top. But that was years ago and I don't know what the percentage of the mixture was. 

What are you using for your final coat?


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

I have not had luck with mesh and anytime our "drywallers" use mesh, I am left with many hairline cracks. I would love to say mesh sucks but if it works for you fine. I don't like it. 

Fibafuse on the other hand is damn good stuff!:thumbsup:


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

NCFHOME said:


> I have seen a pro mix the durabond 90 with the green top. But that was years ago and I don't know what the percentage of the mixture was.
> 
> What are you using for your final coat?


You don't want to do that.They dry in different ways.Green top dries by evaporation.Durabond is by chemical reaction.
We use USG topping for the finish coat.It;s a blue lid.


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## NCFHOME (Dec 7, 2014)

MAKO1 at least I am getting the topping coat right. Ill switch over to durabond for the taping coat and Ill also try the fibafuse everyone is talking about.
Thanks for the help


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

NCFHOME said:


> Actually the first mistake was letting them do it.
> 
> No it was a ceiling in a bathroom 10' x 12' with the joist running the 12' direction. Like I said shoulda been easy hang with 2 full sheets and a partial. Had 12' sheets so no but joints. Ended up with one of those also


So you railroaded the joists? Thats mistake #1, never railroad your joists hang perpindicular to the joists. #2 if your using mesh tape with durabond, but the best thing is paper if the joint cracks it cracks under the paper not showing the crack


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Why does mesh tape exist?


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## Walraven (Jan 24, 2014)

Inner10 said:


> Why does mesh tape exist?


For diy'ers playing at being stoppers


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## Lugnut1968 (Dec 11, 2014)

Also, I never even consider using hot mud on larger jobs or full house situations. It's green lid all the way when it comes to that for me.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

My methods works for me. 

I've seen what the large production crews leave behind ...In the last decade the materials In this trade have really gone down hill .. Applying tapes with A/P Will work just fine if all the conditions are perfect! But that's rarely the case no matter what time of the season. 

I much prefer Insurance over worry.


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

NCFHOME said:


> I am not a professional by any means but I feel that my drywall work is pretty good. We end up doing a lot of patch work and hanging a few sheets ourselves. It's just too hard to get pros in for piece work. I am always trying to better my work. I am no good with paper tape. I use the mess tape and seems to work fine. I will try fibafuse but that's another story. Anyway several weeks after I sometimes end up with an offset at a joint line or even a fine crack. I have never had this with factory joints. Just rough but joints with a larger gap to fill with mud. It's hard to describe but it's like one of the sheets swells up thicker. I use the green top for the first coat and purple or blue for the second and third coat. I have been talking to my painter a out theses issues and he thinks it's because I don't use durabond for the first coat. What do you guys think the problem is. The first coat if mud, the tape or a little but of both? I'm open to all arguments. Anything to better my work


if all your going to do is small jobs and patch work I would only need
ez sand 20 for all coats
mud max for tape coat
mesh for big hole but would ff over the mesh
fiberfuse for all seams and corners and inside corners
36'' roll fiberfuse for patch work
some one said why do they make mesh... its for plasterers 
but I use it on big gaps to hold the mud in place and then fiberfuse over that....I use it on all my butts with fiberfuse over that as well. I do the butts like this so it don't rip the ff when I wipe it and in the corners if there is a big gap the ff will not cut when I wipe it.
not saying this is the best way I do it.


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## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

Sounds like yall know what you're doing and like your system, and I'm certainly not gonna stand up and change your minds.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Anthill said:


> Sounds like yall know what you're doing and like your system, and I'm certainly not gonna stand up and change your minds.


Right..............:boxing::boxing::bangin:


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Why does mesh tape exist?


Its used for corner bead and I'll use it on a small patch job with quickest to save a step and make it faster


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

scottktmrider said:


> Its used for corner bead r


If your a hack!


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

blacktop said:


> If your a hack!


How can u use paper tape on corner bead than


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

scottktmrider said:


> How can u use paper tape on corner bead than


scott you use steel corners....put them in the scrap bin


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I love mesh...........I love metal bead..............I'm a hack. 

We're all a bunch of hacks.........:laughing:


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

Big Shoe said:


> I love mesh...........I love metal bead..............I'm a hack.
> 
> We're all a bunch of hacks.........:laughing:


its ok...we need hacks out there....it make some of us look good


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## scottktmrider (Jun 24, 2012)

icerock drywall said:


> scott you use steel corners....put them in the scrap bin


I just put up what my boss says to put up.he signs my check at the end of the week so I guess I have to go with him


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

scottktmrider said:


> I just put up what my boss says to put up.he signs my check at the end of the week so I guess I have to go with him


I get it....I had to use steel in the 80's and in the 90's I went to steel mesh thinking I had the strongest bead then I got my hands on trim-tex...and never went back. but sometime DIYer's put steel bead up and I dont feel like taking it off I will run mesh down the edge


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

scottktmrider said:


> How can u use paper tape on corner bead than





Big Shoe said:


> I love mesh...........I love metal bead..............I'm a hack.
> 
> We're all a bunch of hacks.........:laughing:


Why the shiny 90s ? Why tape the flange? 

Buy a case of B1 Super wides ! 

The less fasteners in the board .the better off you are in the long run! IF the board is sowed up with field screws or perimeter screws . Your just asking for trouble . GLUE THE PISS OUT OF IT!! Use less fasteners !! It ain't rocket surgery ! Unless your hanging over metal studs ... In that case !!!! I't don't matter.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Big Shoe said:


> I love mesh...........I love metal bead..............I'm a hack.
> 
> We're all a bunch of hacks.........:laughing:


I've never had issues with mesh either.:no:
Must be a Florida thang...:thumbup:


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

Sir Mixalot said:


> I've never had issues with mesh either.:no:
> Must be a Florida thang...:thumbup:


And California


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

lol...I love repairing jobs that have mesh on them with light mud and the paper off in the inside corners...because they use light mud on there tape coat:thumbup:...o well must be 

I would like to add if you use the right mud or hot mud I feel mesh is great! but I am a fiberfuse man now


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