# My Steps are collapsing



## tbruening (Jan 7, 2008)

I had a 110ft retaining wall and a paver patio with steps installed last fall and now my steps are collapsing. 

The steps leading from the paver patio to our door have sunk about six inches. The lanscaper I hired says that it is due to the soil sinking as we built the house in October and now I have to pay another $1,000 to repair them. I don't mind if this is the case as soil issues I would think should be out of the landscapers control. 

However, I want to make sure when we rebuild them I am not paying another $1,000 next year to fix these again. I do not know the name brand of the blocks but here are some of the dimensions. 

5 blocks wide approximately 70"
5 blocks tall at the top step

They put about 5 inches of minus on top of the dirt before they set the first row of blocks, after the first row was set they locked them in using concrete and my concern is that with the steps being this tall and using concrete we have one heavy set of steps that are bound to collpase again. 

Thanks for you help as I am usually on the other end of these questions trying to make sure things are done properly. 

Todd
Parking Lot Maintenance, LLC
1 800 88 SEALCOAT


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## JBBS (Jan 17, 2008)

Tell the landscaper to come back and actually put the blocks on a proper footing. The side view looks rediculous. No way I would pay the same person again. Of course that is just my opinion and first impression as I am not a landscaper.


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## edgewater (Aug 30, 2007)

As a landscaper, I could have told you those step would fail with 100% certainty. Steps must either be built against the foundation of the house, or fully enclosed. By that I mean they need a wall across the back where ther is no support. 


In a case where the soil has been disturbed (your new construction), steps must be taken to prevent what happened. We overdig until we reach good soil. This can sometimes be several feet. This is an extra cost up front, but the contractor should have advised you then, and done it right the first time. This look like the work of someone who has no idea how to do the work, or just a very low bid.

pay now or pay later.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

please someone tell me this is a joke


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## JBBS (Jan 17, 2008)

Look at all that money you saved by going with the lowest bidder! Kudos!


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## tbruening (Jan 7, 2008)

*Steps collapsing how to rebuild*

edgewater thanks for the feedback. 

When we remove these steps would you put some concrete piers under a concrete pad and then lay the pavers. I am trying to educate myself as the landscaper is obviously not familiar with constructing these type of steps. 

Also, would you run the concrete pad under the bay window and back to the foundation and leave the space open or put pavers under the bay? 

Our contract has a two year warranty on the pavers and workmanship but the contractor is saying we have a sink hole from the new construction. My reply and tell me if I am wrong is that this is wh ywe hired a professional and you should know how to construct steps. 

JBBS he wasn't the lowest bid by the way. 

Kindest Regards, 

Todd
Parking Lot Maintenance, LLC
1 800 88 SEALCOAT


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

1. He's right about the sink hole.
2. You can't stack this weight on any soil condition and expect it to hold up.
3. Yank them out, excavate, fill, tamp and pour a good 4500 psi mix 6" deep.
4. Reset stones.
5. Send your bill to the kid that got paid for the original install.


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## klkanders (Dec 16, 2007)

The problem is this could be rebuilt and dug down further but some settling might occur again. On new construction the LC should have said this might occur and especially with all that weight and no bottom back support. If this were mine I would have built a small deck there overhanging the patio just a bit with wood steps down to patio. You can still do this. Work out a deal with the landscaper to tear it out and give you some credit back to build the deck or hire that done.


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

A wacker wouldve fixed the "sinkhole" issue before it became a problem


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## odellconstruct (Mar 27, 2008)

kinda like building a house on a landfill and not expect it to settle ! no compaction thus leaving it to settle the 2 in or so when moisture set in. i would call him back and have it redone , if hes a pro then he should have known that it would settle , thats should be covered in the workmanship, or lack of .


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## Blackhammer (Mar 2, 2008)

Compaction is irrelivant without a proper footing. The steps and block should either be on a monolithic slab footing or a conventinal footing with min 3000 psi concrete and 2# 5 rebar.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Basement foundation?

How recently was the backfill & grade to when these steps were installed?

Fresh backfill + no footing + heavy block

Kinda hard not to see this one coming.


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## backhoe1 (Mar 30, 2007)

I spent years doing this type of work, and we NEVER poured any concrete ever for a project like this. excavate to good firm soil, pack road base gravel in 6" lifts. wall needs to go all the way to house foundation to keep base material from falling out and with proper compaction those steps would never move.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Do not pour a concrete footing. It is not required, and most SRW manufacturers specifically say not to. That is a piss poor job, and unless the steps were built before the house, I would have my attorney contact the contractor as a next step.


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## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

Tscarborough said:


> Do not pour a concrete footing. It is not required, and most SRW manufacturers specifically say not to. That is a piss poor job, and unless the steps were built before the house, I would have my attorney contact the contractor as a next step.


Yup... don't pour concrete just look at road builders and do what they do:

lime treat the soil and pack it in nicely


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## Stewy (Nov 11, 2007)

Poor base preparation, void behind blocks is a problem, all the joints from blocks to caps all line up right to the top of the steps, joints should be staggered. Concrete should not be required if built properly.


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## BrianHay (Jun 17, 2007)

If a project of mine failed like that I would be back A.S.A.P with a sincere apology and fix it at no extra cost.


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

Doesn’t seem this ever got answered. And all of the solutions were inaccurate. That set of SRW steps requires neither a concrete footing nor surface compaction in that application. Any professional Hardscaper would be knowledgeable of that situation which is simply what’s called an “over-dig”. When your new construction was backfilled, on-site soil or loam was used to fill, and will take years before it becomes stabilized. You can compact the surface to your hearts desire, or pour a slab, but they will both sink. In new construction it is always advisable to dig out ALL of the back fill down to a level where the soil is stable. You would then backfill with a crushed angular stone, compacting in moderate lifts. Crushed angular stone is almost fully compact when you dump it. Set your blocks over the aggregate base when you get to the top, or pour a pad if you want to waste a little extra. Either way an “over dig” is common situation that any hardscaper should have encountered before….


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Ah yes, looks like you took the lowest price.:thumbup:

So how much did you save? Wait, don't answer that till you get the price to do it right.:laughing:

If you take the low bid again; we'll see you back here in a year or so.


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## backhoe1 (Mar 30, 2007)

backhoe1 said:


> excavate to good firm soil, pack road base gravel in 6" lifts.


 

Isn't that what I said?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

backhoe1 said:


> Isn't that what I said?


I thought so, but maybe the"Captain"
is a bit too full of himself to have read 
your post.


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

backhoe1 said:


> Isn't that what I said?


Sorry, I didn’t see your post. You were correct. I just saw answers that were all over the place. Only reason I even posted was because I couldn’t read that thinking that someone might search when they have a similar issue to find some of those answers. Most important thing is that the installer is 100% responsible for understanding how to stabilize the soils, and all liability should fall on him.


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

neolitic said:


> I thought so, but maybe the"Captain"
> is a bit too full of himself to have read
> your post.


What? ok, I will refrain from posting.:thumbsup:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Please Keep posting, it just helps if you read the previous posts.


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## jking09 (Jul 29, 2008)

i'm no landscaper or anything but i could have told you it looked crappy.. 
definitely get some support behind those steps this time.


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## JBBS (Jan 17, 2008)

Nevermind.....of course jking just had to take down the pic of the good looking lady to make me look like a fool lol


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