# How many office workers to produce over 2 million per year?



## Magic Hammer (Dec 11, 2007)

We have one office manager, one sales manager, and one production manager working in the office to produce 1.2 million per year.
Who else would we need to go to 2.2 million?


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## Builderbob 72 (Dec 15, 2010)

Dunno, How many sheets of TP will I need tomorrow morning? 

Your answer would depend on if your present staff are maxed out work-load. I would say to give the production manager an assistant to do the grunt work and verify job progress (but not necessarily quality). You could get away with a lower salary by using someone who has aspirations of advancement but doesn't have the skills or experience yet.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Seems like too many people involved to gross 1.2 mil.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

If you had the RIGHT three people in the office you should be able to achieve your goal.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

Builderbob 72 said:


> Dunno, How many sheets of TP will I need tomorrow morning?


I'm gonna say...two handfulls? Who counts sheets?


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

ok being some what of a smart ass before, sales managers do thay leave the office? do you have sales team? whats there closing rate, do you sell more on eastside of town? how do find leads?. just to answer your post double sales, that was easy.


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## Builderbob 72 (Dec 15, 2010)

BrandConst said:


> I'm gonna say...two handfulls? Who counts sheets?


Depends if you're a roller or a folder, I guess!:thumbsup:


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## Magic Hammer (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for all your help.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Seems like too many people involved to gross 1.2 mil.


 Depends on what you do. He is a remodeler. If he does 4 projects to do 1.2 he probably doesn't need that many people. If he does 25, he might. We had 2.5 office before a million, one doing sales, design and some pm. The other doing the books, and me doing most of the PM and production management. We were profitable in that model. Now we need another production manager, training my brother as fast as he can absorb it.

Somewhere after crossing 7 figures, we had to have part time help in the office doing the books and billing.

When doing primarily custom homes, you can track success by fiscal revenue. Roofing as well, I'd imagine. Anything that has about the same mark up. 

If you mark up customs 15%, and do 2 mil, your gross profit is 300,000$ , ect...

Last year about one fifth of our annual revenue was from a custom home. It made up about 8% of gross profit.

Mark ups on remodeling vary for us. Also the amount of billable PM and in house labor does, so it really depends on what kind of projects we did to make up our annual revenue that decides our net profit and also how efficient our office staff is.


There have been several Big 50 remodelers who do less than a million in sales. After getting involved in my states Remodelers Council, I have talked toseveral well known and very successful remodelers who find their happy place around a million. Even a couple who stay under that. 

Last years chairman is a very successful Big 50 remodeler from Houston, he didn't go over 2 mil for the first 25 years he was in business and said he almost fell apart when he did. He had to refine them and staff up to go beyond that. I don't know his systems, but if we kept the mix of large projects and small ones 2 mil is not a problem with our current staff. If just doing custom homes we could easily double that with the part time and a full time book keeper. Just depends on the companies systems I suppose.

Personally, I don't give a chit about annual revenue until the end of the year. After every project I want to know gross and net profit, and find out what we can improve on. What cost more than I figured? What cost less? Why was labor higher on this portion? How did we stick to the schedule?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Magic Hammer said:


> We have one office manager, one sales manager, and one production manager working in the office to produce 1.2 million per year.
> Who else would we need to go to 2.2 million?



Is the sales manager a project manager? Or just sells? What kind of projects do you do for the most part? 

The thing I would want before a sales person is a selections person and purchaser. I hate selections. 

My personal goal in the future is not to be a desk jockey bug have someone to make the selections, and order all the fixtures, appliances, flooring, paint, drapes ect... In my dream world I just want to sell the job (if I have too, lol) , write the scopes , write the schedule, and run the jobs. Had it made as far as that goes until we got really busy and my dad started running jobs again, too.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Magic Hammer said:


> We have one office manager, one sales manager, and one production manager working in the office to produce 1.2 million per year.
> Who else would we need to go to 2.2 million?





Builderbob 72 said:


> Depends if you're a roller or a folder, I guess!:thumbsup:


That's funny. :laughing::laughing:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Jaw - I'm only referring to having 3 people dedicated to office work while only doing 1.2 gross sales.

Currently we are at a 1/3 of that for this year, so it will probably be a little less total but I have no problem handling the sales, simple office work, scheduling, coordinating, accounting, human resources etc. We have done more than 25 jobs too. I do have a sales guy who does help but I don't have a sales manager (meaning this guy has at least two salesman).

I just think 3 people dedicated to that type of stuff is too much. One company around here does around 5 million a year in exterior work and they even only have two office people, two salesman and one project manager.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Oh and to answer your question magic; to go from 1.2 to 2.2 , you need more signed contracts and more worker bees to get the production done. Less chiefs, more indians!


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Jaw - I'm only referring to having 3 people dedicated to office work while only doing 1.2 gross sales.
> 
> Currently we are at a 1/3 of that for this year, so it will probably be a little less total but I have no problem handling the sales, simple office work, scheduling, coordinating, accounting, human resources etc. We have done more than 25 jobs too. I do have a sales guy who does help but I don't have a sales manager (meaning this guy has at least two salesman).
> 
> I just think 3 people dedicated to that type of stuff is too much. One company around here does around 5 million a year in exterior work and they even only have two office people, two salesman and one project manager.


 Yeah, I understand that. But do you design multi faceted projects? Selections for an entire house, from paint colors to roofing? Do you have to go on 12 meetings before you break ground? Have to research products, price specialty items and work up an estimate on multi faceted projects , even for the many you don't get? There is a difference.

The small things like having detailed project books for our leads take a lot of time. Keeping track of historical data, ect... Billing takes a lot of time.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Magic Hammer said:


> We have one office manager, one sales manager, and one production manager working in the office to produce 1.2 million per year.
> Who else would we need to go to 2.2 million?


One customer with $1,000,000.00


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> One customer with $1,000,000.00


:laughing:


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Anti-wingnut said:


> One customer with $1,000,000.00


Some may find that funny but it's true. Just one more small commercial construction job or one larger new home is all it would take.

I agree with Bam you don't need more office help. 

Cole


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Maybe some consider a production manager office, I don't. Production manager may spend some time in the office but his main job is to run personal and jobs. Imo. I can't imagine having a dedicated sales person, must be nice. We will be doing our thing with a book keeper for the foreseeable future. I will NEVER just be in the office. That chit gets old


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Cole82 said:


> Some may find that funny but it's true. Just one more small commercial construction job or one larger new home is all it would take.
> 
> I agree with Bam you don't need more office help.
> 
> Cole


 That was my points earlier. If you have mostly large jobs, you have less billing, selections, ect. One big job for a million dollars is a lot less paper work than 50 bathrooms or 25 kitchens.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

First figure out your current maximum capacity. That will tell you what you need to know going forward.


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