# Day labor at HD



## locofoco (Dec 15, 2005)

I caught the tail end of a news report tonight saying that Home Depot has started a day labor business at some of their west coast stores? The report also said 80% of them were illegal immigrants. Anybody else see this? Please tell me I'm wrong.


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## bob the builder (Oct 6, 2005)

People looking for work were hanging out in the parking lot at H.D.'s in the morning and asking contractors if they needed help that day. Well apparently that caught on and at one particular store the manager kicked the day workers off the property. They then started hanging around in neighborhoods near H.D. and from there national media. I assume that is the story your speaking of at least....

Bob


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

On the news not too long ago there was a story about a HD managed calling the police to arrest day laborers for trespassing. They rounded up about 20 (or so) guys, all illegals. All except one, a Mexican citizen who was a contractor and was at HD to buy material. They just rounded him right into the heard.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

locofoco said:


> I caught the tail end of a news report tonight saying that Home Depot has started a day labor business at some of their west coast stores? The report also said 80% of them were illegal immigrants. Anybody else see this? Please tell me I'm wrong.


That would be awesome. The closest day laborers I can get are down town in Denver, I work the burbs so it's a 2 hour or more process to pick them up and then another 2 hours to get them back.:thumbdown 

I've got 10 Home Depots within spitting distance of me.:thumbup:


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

I just finished (minutes ago) reading Eat The Rich by PJ O'Rourke and I have to admit, I may be experiencing an epiphany regarding my here-to-fore strongly held beliefs about [illegal] immigration. O'Rourke makes a very strong case for the benefits to be found in a truly 'free market' vs. those found in places where freedom is doled (sp?) out selectively. I think some thoughtful reexamination of my opinions might be in order.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

locofoco said:


> I caught the tail end of a news report tonight saying that Home Depot has started a day labor business at some of their west coast stores? The report also said 80% of them were illegal immigrants. Anybody else see this? Please tell me I'm wrong.





bob the builder said:


> People looking for work were hanging out in the parking lot at H.D.'s in the morning and asking contractors if they needed help that day. Well apparently that caught on and at one particular store the manager kicked the day workers off the property. They then started hanging around in neighborhoods near H.D. and from there national media. I assume that is the story your speaking of at least....
> 
> Bob


It's amazing the differences between the two posts.

I like Day Labor. It's a cheap and convenient way to fill in the gaps when I ran a crew. I'm now going back to using subs for everything except repairs, but when I we needed a few extra guys to clean up trash a simple phone call to labor ready and I had the extra labor I needed. Note I said LABOR these guys have no skills for the most part and you have to keep on them cracking the whip. Also in my area they drive themseles to and from the jobsite.

In regards to home depot hiring illegals... No way in hell, unless the illegal had some false papers, which many do. In that case how is it home depot's fault?


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## RoofContractor (Dec 15, 2005)

I agree with Grumpy:thumbup:


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## paroofer (Sep 30, 2005)

This is part of an email we got from NRCA on Dec 14th..

Current situation: The U.S. House of Representatives will consider immigration legislation this week that focuses solely on interior enforcement and border security. HR 4437 would replace the current I-9 hiring process with a new, unproven government-run electronic verification program that requires employers to determine whether potential employees are authorized to work in the U.S. and would require a blanket re-examination of all existing employees — even those who already have gone through the I-9 process. HR 4437 also would impose massive increases in penalties on employers — even for paperwork violations. 

How your business is affected: HR 4437 essentially forces employers to act as the "document police" or find themselves subject to onerous fines and potential jail time. To make matters worse, the legislation fails to provide legal channels for employers to access needed immigrant workers when U.S. workers are unavailable. Provisions of the legislation include: 
Employers found to be in violation of the new mandates can be subject to fines as high as $50,000 and one year in prison for each violation. 
Paperwork violations, such as checking the wrong box on an I-9 form, can result in a $25,000 fine. This is 25-fold increase — the current fine is $1,000. 
Employers are required to confirm the documentation of every employee, including some former employees. 
The bill criminalizes the status of those here unlawfully, making all current undocumented workers "aggravated felons" — this would force them to leave the U.S. and preclude them from ever returning. 

This will be a huge pain in the but for employers. :thumbdown


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

Freakin amazing, it's almost like they put their heads together to find a new way to put a fella in jail. 

Ya know some of the employers that get caught up in that crap wont deserve it. They'll use it to spearhead people that don't fit the program.

Bob


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

paroofer said:


> This is part of an email we got from NRCA on Dec 14th..
> 
> Current situation: The U.S. House of Representatives will consider immigration legislation this week that focuses solely on interior enforcement and border security. HR 4437 would replace the current I-9 hiring process with a new, unproven government-run electronic verification program that requires employers to determine whether potential employees are authorized to work in the U.S. and would require a blanket re-examination of all existing employees — even those who already have gone through the I-9 process. HR 4437 also would impose massive increases in penalties on employers — even for paperwork violations.
> 
> ...



Sorry, thumbs way up! :thumbup: That would be awesome if it would only come to pass, which it surely won't. 

The current system doesn't work, anything is is a step in the right direction. It's pretty simply, cut off the benefits for crossing the border and there's no reason to cross it, right? The problem starts and stops with the people handing money to the illegals, that's the employers. Unfortunatly I doubt this bill will ever get passed, but it certainly is what needs to be done.


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## PMAC (Jul 26, 2005)

Ya your right it probebly wont pass!


Here in America we got to wrapped up in democrat-republican bs. We are blinded by gov't mind F*cking us. We have been divided so bad that the gov't can do whatever they want. ANd we wont do a dam thing about it. All that Americans will do is point there finger and say look what the republicans did, look at what the democrats did.


IN the mean time while the GOV't dems and republicans go golfing together, maybe vactation together and sit around laughing at all the moronic americans that bought into the repbulican democrat thing and totally forget we are Americans not democrats and republicans.


So as our gov't mind F*cks us all and does nothing that we want them to do the people "dems and republicans" foam at the mouth and point thier fingers at each other thinking how right they are. While the gov't goes unchecked and can do whatever they want. 

If we lived in a unified country that are gov't didnt mind F*CK and they pulled things like they do now to screw us all. They would have been overthrown along time ago and they now it. SO what they have done is an old well none tactic of war and its called


DIVIDE AND CONQUER! ANd the lamers dont even no it. They just running around thinking how right they are and how wrong the other guy is.

SO anyway no sense blabing around about illegals cause either way we are going to support our gov't decision 100%. 50% from the dems and 50% from the republicans while the gov't officails sit around behind closed doors and laugh how well there little plan has worked and how all the morons(american people) fell for it hook line and sinker! THey need them illegal mexian votes and they need the legal mexican votes that they wont get if they screw the illegal mexican family members!

SO lets just keep on pointing our fingers at each other and let the gov't Screw us til the end!


Otherwise this post wouldnt even have been posted something would have been done that the American people want but dems can point finger at republicans and vice versa while we suffor. Maybe i can go to arizona and finish drywall for 3 cents a foot.



THE 50-50 syndrome that the gov't created to protect themselves and keep themselves in power while they do nothing that the people want!

Just look at the big show over judge Alito. Do you think they dont know how each and every one is going to vote? Do you think these senate hearings changed a thing NO. ITs all for show for the mind F***KING. THey should have voted on him right away. We know dems are against and republicans are for and really not a damn thing the dems could do to stop it. but we need that show for the morons, I mean Americans!


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Sorry, thumbs way up! :thumbup: That would be awesome if it would only come to pass, which it surely won't.
> 
> The current system doesn't work, anything is is a step in the right direction. It's pretty simply, cut off the benefits for crossing the border and there's no reason to cross it, right? The problem starts and stops with the people handing money to the illegals, that's the employers. Unfortunatly I doubt this bill will ever get passed, but it certainly is what needs to be done.


I disagree with you, paroofer stated that this would be a major inconvenience for the employer. But also, think about the time (time=money) that its going to take a small business owner like me (and you) to deal with this nonsense. To top it off they want us to pay a hefty fine for “checking the wrong box”. Come on, get real. 
The first service to get hit by this will be the landscapers. If you think that something this minor will stop the influx of illegals into the states then your wrong. A better mouse trap will be built, if you know what I mean. I don’t agree with hiring illegals, but they do have a market and always will, no matter what.
That’s my lousy 2 ¢


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## paroofer (Sep 30, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> Sorry, thumbs way up! :thumbup: That would be awesome if it would only come to pass, which it surely won't.
> 
> The current system doesn't work, anything is is a step in the right direction. It's pretty simply, cut off the benefits for crossing the border and there's no reason to cross it, right? The problem starts and stops with the people handing money to the illegals, that's the employers. Unfortunatly I doubt this bill will ever get passed, but it certainly is what needs to be done.


Except they put all the responsibility on the employer. Why? Because they suck at their job of keeping our borders safe? They even second guess their original process by reexaminating all those who have been through the I-9 already? I just think it's THEIR job. I certainly won't give money to illegals either, and don't appreciate people who do. How do you tell if documents are legit??


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## PMAC (Jul 26, 2005)

paroofer said:


> How do you tell if documents are legit??



Dont hire any of them "Illegal cockroaches" and you wont have to worry if there papers are legit or not! I mean really if they are standing out in front of a home depot and only one out of the 20 guys there can speek english then chances are they are border jumpers!!!!!!!!

I forget how sensitive some may be to the truth!


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

Tell you what bothers me is, this has been going on for a long time with contractors, the ones that are and have been hiring illegals of either mexican decent or eastern europeon decent. They will just hire someone else, they dont care, its just buisness. Bothers me when ethics are not part of how you run your buisness.
I bet there are at least a dozen contractors on here that hire illegals and dont advertise it. 
I havent always walked a pefectly straight line 100% of the time but I dont undercut the american worker, though it is tempting. Hard not to be tempted because it seem like everyone else is just going with whose can work the hardest for the least amount of money.


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## PMAC (Jul 26, 2005)

red_cedar said:


> Tell you what bothers me is, this has been going on for a long time with contractors, the ones that are and have been hiring illegals of either mexican decent or eastern europeon decent. They will just hire someone else, they dont care, its just buisness. Bothers me when ethics are not part of how you run your buisness.
> I bet there are at least a dozen contractors on here that hire illegals and dont advertise it.
> I havent always walked a pefectly straight line 100% of the time but I dont undercut the american worker, though it is tempting. Hard not to be tempted because it seem like everyone else is just going with whose can work the hardest for the least amount of money.




OHHHH IC you must be a biggot too! And everyone else that doesnt want a flood of illegals ruining our business!


YOu are all just biggots! ITs ok for mexico to seal thier southern border but my god the United States better not cause them some libtard will call us biggots!

ANd for them guys who hire this scum they should be fined heavily and hopefully put out of business! Cause if it continues we will all be put out of business!


Here is the common home depot scenario!


http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2677619?htv=12


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Ya'll need to tone down on the 'brown bastards' and whatnot.
Play nicely here or I'll shut it down.
At least ACT like your all professionals.


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## PMAC (Jul 26, 2005)

I fixed it just for you!


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## locofoco (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks Prowall-

This is a hot topic right now, a little scary for sure. Here's my 2cents-
There have always been immigrants here taking cheap jobs, in the 1800's it was the Irish and east-europeans, out west it was the Chinese. They came here and worked hard and now their descendants are living the American dream. They assimilated into our culture and learned English.

Today,with the Mexican immigrants, we have a new set of problems. A lot,if not most are illegals. They need to be sent home. I have no ill feelings for Hispanic people, they have a wonderful culture and they make good Americans when they come here to stay, assimilate and become citizens.
Whats going on now however, is a wholesale invasion of a people who in my opinion are here to make a fast buck to send back home. They may seem to be the ticket for some of us wanting grunt work done cheap. But who pays for all the medical bills down at the "free" clinic. Who pays to educate their children (they pay little if any taxes). This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as social services go. With the growing Hispanic population,many of whom are unwilling to give up their native tongue, I'm afraid some day we'll become a nation of two languages like Canada. That would be a disaster. Our common language has always been a uniting factor in our culture. This cheap labor on the streetcorner isn't cheap, it only appears so. We'll pay now or we'll pay later. I don't think there are any jobs Americans are unwilling to do if the moneys right. And if they're paid right they'll pay taxes, build homes, and maybe even hire us to do something. As much as we all hate polititians, they're really the only ones who can do anything about it. As soon as the voters cry enough about it, we'll get action. I hope it isn't too late.


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## paroofer (Sep 30, 2005)

I agree. I just don't think it ALL needs to be up to the employers. We all pay taxes. Our government should share in the responsibility Our borders should be more secure. That's all. I'm not being sensitive, JMO.


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## locofoco (Dec 15, 2005)

(Why do the paragraphs get jammed together)


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Peladu said:


> paroofer stated that this would be a major inconvenience for the employer.


Major is probably a vast exageration. Minor incovenience I would agree with, so are paying taxes, so is reporting payroll, so is dealing with building permits...

Keep in mind employers created the problem and are what is perpetuating it. If illegals can't find jobs because employers stop hiring them because finally the risks are higher than the rewards then there is no reason to cross the border. 



Peladu said:


> To top it off they want us to pay a hefty fine for “checking the wrong box”. Come on, get real.


You have to keep things in perspective. CAN RESULT in and WILL RESULT in are vastly different. You accidently run over somebody you COULD get 20 years under the right circumstances, most likely you won't be facing maximum penalties unless you are guilty of them. It's designed to catch the criminal scumbags who are guilty of hiring illegals not waste time on people who make an honest mistake on a form. You have to have teeth in the bill if it is to be effective. If the limits are set too low, you're right back where we are today. 



Peladu said:


> The first service to get hit by this will be the landscapers.


If they fit the crime then I'll be glad to seem them get hit.



Peladu said:


> If you think that something this minor will stop the influx of illegals into the states then your wrong.¢


It's not minor -( the penalties) isn't that exactly what all the crying is about? Stop the reason for crossing the border, the money dries up, you stop the flow across the border.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

locofoco said:


> Here's my 2cents-There have always been immigrants here taking cheap jobs, in the 1800's it was the Irish and east-europeans, out west it was the Chinese. They came here and worked hard and now their descendants are living the American dream. They assimilated into our culture and learned English.


You are confusing the issue. Illegal workers are not immigrants. Immigrants enter the country illegally and are welcomed with open arms, they have protections from unscrupulous employers.

Illegals enter the country illegally - how about an islamic militant carrying a nuke on his back? Would you rather he applys and is scrutinized or just allowed to walk on in?

Illegals get taken advantage of by employers which in turn screws both you and me. Anybody ever lose a job to a contractor using illegals and able to undercut everyone else because his labor rates are 75% less than yours?:thumbdown 

You want to make a decent living, put your kids through college, buy a nice truck, enjoy the American dream? It's pretty tough when you have somebody breaking the rules, turning a fair playing field into an unfair one because he has 1/2 the expenses you have. - Same argument against jack offs without insurance and licenses.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

paroofer said:


> Except they put all the responsibility on the employer. Why? Because they suck at their job of keeping our borders safe?


Border security needs to be addressed, but you won't see it with the current administration. It's a one-two punch, one of those puncsh is taking away the jobs available to illegals which give them a reason to risk crossing the border and living here illegally. Let's get that one done if possible under the current admininstration and see if the next one addresses the 2nd punch.

It's got to be placed on the back of the employer because he has created the reason for illegals to come here. Stop the money and you stop the illegals reasons for coming here.




paroofer said:


> How do you tell if documents are legit??


That's got to be part of the new process, because the current one doesn't work.


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## paroofer (Sep 30, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> You are confusing the issue. Illegal workers are not immigrants. Immigrants enter the country illegally and are welcomed with open arms, they have protections from unscrupulous employers.
> 
> Illegals enter the country illegally - how about an islamic militant carrying a nuke on his back? Would you rather he applys and is scrutinized or just allowed to walk on in?
> 
> ...



I definitely understand your point of view Mike. We don't have employees, but we make sure our sub's guys are legal (to the best of our ability). When I ask about papers being legit...we used to have an employee who's SS# appeared to check out. We found out he was not legal and sent him down the road. That is why I would be nervous about the Gov holding employers accountable, not because I like to try to get away with it.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

paroofer said:


> That is why I would be nervous about the Gov holding employers accountable, not because I like to try to get away with it.


I totally understand that issue, but that issues has no bearing. Where does the fear end? Do you sit up at night worried a computer has deleted your tax returns and you will be getting a tax bill for $1,000,000? You SS number will be deleted and you will be deported?

We have a government that governs about every single aspect of our lives, each and every day, from federal for your taxes all the way down to municipal to the cop who could pull you over for no reason and give you a ticket because he wants to. We live with this in our lives everyday but the risks the fears the problems are all managable, you're doing it, I'm doing it, everybody does it every day. 

A new policy doesn't mean everything surrounding it gets turned upside down and the government will be locking up innocent business owners left and right.

Your career as a contractor if effected by illegals. Short sighted means to ignore it and keep having to deal with downward price pressures in your market if illegals are prevelant. How many times do you hear somebody say how hard it is to make a living in framing, drywall, roofing...ect... any trade that has large numbers of illegals undermining the pay scale? How many guys have said, I grew up watching my dad make a living at this or that and now you can't feed a family because somebody else is willing to do it so cheap? That's the long term future of the trades unless somebody gets a little inconvenienced and a system is put in place to eliminate them or at least get them manageable.

Anyways, that's how I see it.

Any employer who is using illegals is part of the problem not part of the solution.


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

Ok Mike but this is how I look at it too: I would be more than shocked should this ever come to fruition but if it should, then what happens. I am a GC, so now on top of all the paperwork, I would still have to produce more paperwork. That’s time out of my business that is not going to help my bottom line. Well someone has to pay for it, my customers most likely. But there is also the fact that (should this pass) I am now not just a GC, but also an unpaid associate of Immigration. (I am going to ask for a badge too, why not get something out of it)

All in all, this proposal has rubbed me the wrong way. I have never hired an illegal alien. (But I am guilty of hiring a nimrod ball scratching good for nothing lazy punk kid. I let him go ‘cause I got sick of all the ball scratching.) But I may be asked to ‘police’ the immigrants and ask for a status check which I feel is a position that I am not willing to take.

Now, how many of you that just read this have an itch that was just scratched? Your Fired.


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## logical (Jan 5, 2006)

PMAC said:


> DO you know what i means to be illegal! THats right a criminal would it have been better for me to say
> 
> 
> DONt hire any of these illegal scumbags!
> ...


No, what you said made you look like a bigot (just one "G")because it was based on their skin color and not their citizenship.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Peladu said:


> I would be more than shocked should this ever come to fruition .


I agree.




Peladu said:


> I am a GC, so now on top of all the paperwork, I would still have to produce more paperwork. That’s time out of my business that is not going to help my bottom line. .


In all due respect the only thing I can do is play the violin for ya on that about paperwork. That's life, it's a given and not negotiable. 

However in regard to your bottom line - that's short term thinking. Think long term, think where you want to be in 20 years. Now think about the ramifications of it taking on 15 years to get there and then think about the ramifications of it taking 30 years to get there. That's the difference between short-term and long-term thinking in regard to your chosen profession and the NIMBY mindset. (Not in my back yard- everybody wants the benefits of a situation but not the work that goes into it.)



> Well someone has to pay for it, my customers most likely.


Now you are seeing the light. With a fair playing field the *CUSTOMERS DO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!!!!! YEA!!!!! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!!!!*

Sorry for the exuberance.:cheesygri But that's just the point, you can raise your prices you can pass it on instead of eating it, because EVERYBODY ELSE HAS TO ALSO, instead of the dirtbag who keeps getting away with undercutting prices in your market because he faces no risks using illegals, bidding lower and pocketing the difference, the current system allows him to manage the risk.

The secret to this whole thing is with a fair playing field the customer has to pay for it! Yippie!



> But there is also the fact that (should this pass) I am now not just a GC, but also an unpaid associate of Immigration. (I am going to ask for a badge too, why not get something out of it)


Well, I hate to break this to you but you are already an unpaid agent for your cities sales tax division if you collect and pay sales tax, you you're an unpaid agent for unemployment, unpaid agent for social security administration, unpaid agent for the IRS and an unpaid agent for state income taxes.

However, I do like the idea of getting a badge. If Elvis could get them why not you and me.:biggrin: 



> All in all, this proposal has rubbed me the wrong way. I have never hired an illegal alien.


That is great and commendable, so why should you suffer anymore for the scumbags who do and will continue to, why should you let them prosper at your expense. The answer probably is because you don't realize that you are suffering because of it, right? IF the new system would actually work, you would do maybe a little more paperwork, or maybe not, maybe you might end up doing less, maybe the new way is more fool proof with time and it all was hysteria for nothing, but then the big payoff starts to set in. Suddenly that dirt bag who was getting some of your work is in jail or out of business and suddenly you're able to make more money. Suddenly that customer who could get Johnny Jack Off to come in 10% under your bid because Johhny Jack Off could mysteriously always some how manage to get it done for less is no longer around. Suddenly that customer has to pay *FAIR MARKET RATES!!!!!* - bottom line the customer ends up paying for it not us.


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

Mike, we could go back and forth, but for the simple fact of this thing most likely never coming to fruition I have already discussed it more than I should have. I stand ground with my previous post.

On a side note thanks for the extremely detailed explanation of the difference between short-term and long-term thinking, I feel like a new man now that I was finally told what that means…..oh, wait…wait……I think I learned that back in the fourth grade….so, nevermind.


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## bob the builder (Oct 6, 2005)

Grumpy said:


> It's amazing the differences between the two posts.



Grumpy, I think I was telling the same story as Peladu. I think the reason they got busted was for urinating in Home Depot's neighbors yard, and someone called the police. 




Mike Finley said:


> instead of the dirtbag who keeps getting away with undercutting prices in your market because he faces no risks using illegals, bidding lower and pocketing the difference, the current system allows him to manage the risk.



I think this is exactly why we don't want illegal immigriants working in the U.S. So one contractor can go to the Home Depot parking lot, grab an illegal and pay him 8 bucks an hour cash. I go get a day laboror and it costs 13 an hour. For me that is not a fair competion. How can we compete against people that break the law??? 

Bob


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

bob the builder said:


> I think this is exactly why we don't want illegal immigriants working in the U.S. So one contractor can go to the Home Depot parking lot, grab an illegal and pay him 8 bucks an hour cash. I go get a day laboror and it costs 13 an hour. For me that is not a fair competion. How can we compete against people that break the law???
> 
> Bob


Exactly.

Another version of this is I can't tell you the number of times I have seen a real estate investor who is either flipping houses or has rental properties proudly advise all that will listen how stupid anybody is to hire a contractor for work on his properties. _*"I can find 3 or 4 mexicans any time I want to come in and gut a house, I supply the dumpster and some tools and they work for peanuts, I pay the leader of them who speaks a little English cash and they work it out amongst themselves."*_ is typical. *"After you get to know a couple of them, they usually have a cousin or a brother who knows how to lay tile or put up cabinets or do lots of the work I usually need done on my properties."* This is usually followed by something along the lines of *"Contractors want way too much money for the same amount of work, I guess that is how they afford their nice big trucks they drive around in."*


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Peladu said:


> On a side note thanks for the extremely detailed explanation of the difference between short-term and long-term thinking, I feel like a new man now that I was finally told what that means…..oh, wait…wait……I think I learned that back in the fourth grade….so, nevermind.


Don't get upset or angry. It wasn't to offend you. If it strikes too close to home, then so be it, you wouldn't be the first contractor to bury his head and you won't be the last. But if the legislation passes you will be just like the rest of us.:biggrin:


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Since this is a 'border crossing issue', how many of you are prisoners in your own country?

As of January 1, 2006, your freedom to travel outside of the country (minus passport) has been ended.

Mine was up for renewal, I submitted all of the paperwork and fees, then Passport Office lost my old passport. Now they need my original birth cert. or a cert. copy, (remember what happened to my passport), plus pics, plus fees. In the meanwhile, I'm going nowhere.

I'm a prisoner in the 'land of the free'.

At least it's a big country but it's really hurting my marine business. I can leave to deliver a yacht to the islands but not re-enter. This is beginning to sound better.


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## go dart (Dec 6, 2005)

way to switch gears teetor


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

It's about time the US caught up with the rest of the world as far as having 1 official travel document. Yep, glad to see it finally happening. Crazy how everybody crys loud and often for the government to secure the boarders, but the kicker is only as long as it isn't at my expense or discomfort.


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Don't get upset or angry. It wasn't to offend you. If it strikes too close to home, then so be it, you wouldn't be the first contractor to bury his head and you won't be the last. But if the legislation passes you will be just like the rest of us.:biggrin:


My company is, and always will be on the up-and-up. Be very cautious with false statements or accusations you craft regarding my business. (i.e. “if it strikes too close to home.” blah, blah, blah..”if it passes you will be just like the rest of us.”) My company is my child. I protect it and baby it, and don’t appreciate someone attempting to belittle it. I have already declared that I have never hired an illegal. 

The overall proposal makes sense, yet I don’t concur with the burden placed on the business owner. Nuff said.

What the hell do you mean bury my head? That’s not going to happen. I don’t know if you think you one upped me somewhere or something? Maybe you thought that I backed out of a debate and you went and smoked a victory cigar? Fact of the matter is I don’t particularly like to debate non issues, which at present time that proposal is. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills before you go blasting crap out of you pie hole.

Most of this thread was discussing *employee* tracking to keep the illegals out. I am pretty sure that I read somewhere on this board that you have NEVER had an employee. If I am remembering correctly then you need to sit back and allow the guys who know what they are talking about converse when it comes to employee issues. If you are not the member without any employees that I am remembering then I will retract this entire last section.

Finally, no you didn’t piss me off then, or now. You may have attempted to make other posters here you bich, but it aint gonna happen with this member.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

locofoco said:


> I'm afraid some day we'll become a nation of two languages like Canada. That would be a disaster.


I've stayed clear of this thread because I don't think I'm well versed enough on American politics to may a comment. However, I would ask you to explain how a country having two officials languages would be a "disaster"? I don't know for a fact but I would venture to say that there are a lot more Americans who speak primarily Spanish than Canadians who speak primarily French.The majority of French-Canadians speak english very well - the same cannot be said for us English-Canadians when it comes to speaking french. I took Fench in grade 9 and have forgotten way more then I learned.

Yes, there have been political movements that have unsuccesfully tried to separate the great country I live in but they were just that, unsuccessful. The French speaking part of Canada originates back to when this country was first born. At one time, almost 50% of the country spoke French thus the reason there were two official languages when the country was formed. Canada has it's own share of issues that need to be fixed, like the U.S., some are the same and some are very different. Canada's health care system, although it has some flaws, is arguably the best in the world - I could go on. 

I wouldn't say that having 2 official languages is something in the "problem column".


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## locofoco (Dec 15, 2005)

Decks- Any situation that could potentially split a nation in two I would call at least a problem. Having ethnic diversity may be a positive thing, but when it grows to the point of secession,thats a whole different story. We fought a bloody civil war to remain a stong united nation, there are a lot of us down here that take the "ONE nation under God with liberty and justice for all" literally. We've got a lot of problems but we'll get though them,we always have.

I apologize if I offended any of our Canadia(e)n members. I didn't mean to, you have a fine country. No disrespect intended. I agree you guys have a great health care up there. Thats why so many corporations are moving north- The insurance companies and medical community here have engaged in a concerted effort for years to disparage the Canadian health care system. They've been successful, most Americans think you're system stinks. America is the only Industrialized country in the world not to have health care for all it's citizens. I've got friends up there, they love it.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Peladu said:


> My company is, and always will be on the up-and-up. Be very cautious with false statements or accusations you craft regarding my business. (i.e. “if it strikes too close to home.” blah, blah, blah..”if it passes you will be just like the rest of us.”) My company is my child. I protect it and baby it, and don’t appreciate someone attempting to belittle it. I have already declared that I have never hired an illegal.
> 
> The overall proposal makes sense, yet I don’t concur with the burden placed on the business owner. Nuff said.
> 
> ...


Sorry you are getting your panties in a bind, at least I think that is the gist of your reply, I stopped reading it half way through once you started going on about "one-upping" or something like that. If that is what you think this is about then it's a waste of time continuing discussing it with you.

No harm, no foul. Didn't mean to get you all wound up. Peace out.


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

donb1959

Good post!

I Hear Ya!


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## locofoco (Dec 15, 2005)

I saw on Lou Dobbs tonight that a viewer wrote in and suggested polititicians wear emblem suits like Gunncon suggested. Maybe they could sew them on their high dollar suits. They'd look just like Jeff Gordon and we"d know who their "sponsors" are.
If you guys make a copy of the workers paperwork and Drivers License W/picture and file them wouldn't your responsibility be complete? It should be. Are you supposed to have a private eye on staff. The government needs to do it's job and stop pandering to special interests.
Lou Dobbs devotes half his show every night to the " broken borders" problem.
Go Lou!


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

This thread is like a bad car accident...it sucks so bad, yet i can't stop reading.

Here's one for ya:


Us guys in the construction biz are the cheapest mo-fos in the workforce, thus, us guys hire the cheapest help. Why don't we all stop kidding ouselves and realize that is all about the $, the LOW $ that is.


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

PMAC said:


> Dont hire any of them "Illegal cockroaches" and you wont have to worry if there papers are legit or not! I mean really if they are standing out in front of a home depot and only one out of the 20 guys there can speek english then chances are they are border jumpers!!!!!!!!
> 
> I forget how sensitive some may be to the truth!


Your ignorant. but illegal is illegal that you are right on. you appearantly cant write english very well, or should i say right english very well? s-p-e-a-k.


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

DecksEtc said:


> I don't know for a fact but I would venture to say that there are a lot more Americans who speak primarily Spanish...etc


Exactly. Such a shame.


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

logical said:


> The amazing part here is that you went back to edit your post yet you still came across as a bigot who can't spell.


I didnt see what you wrote. but im glad you were there. kudos


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

old27 said:


> Exactly. Such a shame.


Why is that a shame? We are speaking the language of another nation right now. English...... Not American. also you can raise your I.Q. if you learn another language, and i think that some people could really benefit from learning another language.


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

King of Crown said:


> Your ignorant. but illegal is illegal that you are right on. you appearantly cant write english very well, or should i say right english very well? s-p-e-a-k.


Your should be you're

appearantly should be apparently

but illegal is illegal that you are right on.= run-on sentence.

just and eff-why-eye

-I live in a stone house, thus i can throw stones...lol


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

old27 said:


> Your should be you're
> 
> appearantly should be apparently
> 
> ...


English is not my fist language... what is your excuse?


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

King of Crown said:


> Why is that a shame?



I always thought the primary language of America, also known as THE United States of America, was English. Thus, I feel it is a shame that a fellow board member would venture to say that Spanish was blah blah blah. You get my point.


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

King of Crown said:


> English is not my fist language... what is your excuse?


What is your first language? Is it "Icanmakefunofspellingerrorsbutcan'ttakeitwhenIspellsomethingwrongish?" And, what do excuses have to do with this, Mr. Critic?


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

old27 said:


> What is your first language? Is it "Icanmakefunofspellingerrorsbutcan'ttakeitwhenIspellsomethingwrongish?" And, what do excuses have to do with this, Mr. Critic?


I think ive come to the conclusion that this site is a bunch of hacks and ignorant hill billies. not that thats a threat to anyone, just a waste of my time.


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

King of Crown said:


> Why is that a shame? We are speaking the language of another nation right now. English...... Not American. also you can raise your I.Q. if you learn another language, and i think that some people could really benefit from learning another language.


You worry about your IQ and I'll worry about mine. I took Latin in HS and College...It made my understanding of the English language all the better. The fact that you edit your posts every ten seconds hurts your argument.

In any event, I do agree with you that learning another language is a beneficial thing...I do, however, fail to see how that argument is relevant to this discussion at this time.


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

King of Crown said:


> I think ive come to the conclusion that this site is a bunch of hacks and ignorant hill billies. not that thats a threat to anyone, just a waste of my time.



hillbillies is one word.

There are famous ones from Beverly, Hills that is.


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## locofoco (Dec 15, 2005)

WOW.....what was that!


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## locofoco (Dec 15, 2005)

This tread is getting a little ":thumbdown long in the tooth."


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

*here's a tooth...lol*

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/grogan/050810


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## bob the builder (Oct 6, 2005)

King of Crown said:


> I think ive come to the conclusion that this site is a bunch of hacks and ignorant hill billies. not that thats a threat to anyone, just a waste of my time.



Well you don't have to take it that far. Not everyone on this site is racist, and the hillbilly comment is headed that way. This thread started with illegal workers at H.D. Does it matter if they are from Mexico, China, Israel, Canada??? O.K. as contractors should we be upset with illegals working with contractors? Sure because they can underbid us every time and we are punished for running a legal company. Should we get upset we people who do side jobs for cash. Sure because they aren't certified and are taking work away from us. Shouldn't we be mad at the contractor who picks up the guy on the street for day work illegally knowing he isn't a sub contractor, when we hire through a temp. service at a higher rate??? For all the people who say to the mexican learn english, do you find yourself needing to communicate with these people on a regular basis and there is a gap with communication or do you just not like Latinos??? O.K. so today I ate lunch at a resturaunt and this girl was spainish and said you wanto Mootan daow. Do I hate her for that, no because I certainly wouldn't do her job. Maybe we should hate the Jews because they steal all of our high paying jobs like doctors and layers. Or maybe I never went to school for 9 years and it's my own fault I'm not a doctor. Enough said, get over it mexicans are here to stay and they will speak english if they want to, if you don't like it run for Congress. Or learn Spainish, hire some mexicans to even the score....

Bob


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## Crawdad (Jul 20, 2005)

old27 said:


> Your should be you're
> 
> appearantly should be apparently
> 
> ...


That should be "an" eff-why-eye.



King of Crown said:


> English is not my *fist* language... what is your excuse?


I think you both need to work on spelling. 



King of Crown said:


> I think ive come to the conclusion that this site is a bunch of hacks and ignorant hill billies. not that thats a threat to anyone, just a waste of my time.


Well, if you're correct about that, which category do you fit in? :laughing: 
I'm in the hillbilly category, but not an ignorant one. 
Crawdad


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

*interesting site*

wehirealiens.com


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Well, I couldn't find a good picture of someone beating a dead horse, so I'll put in this one instead:


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