# Trowel on mastic



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I have a set of plans for a block foundation replacement and the engineer calls for a trowel on mastic. I have no clue what that is? I thought it was thoroughseal or similar, but im finding out its not. 

Some old timer told me its tar they used to trowel on? Seriously?

Anyone have a link?

Thanks


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Used on a roof or vertically on a wall for damp proofing etc.
http://www.premiermasticasphalt.co.uk/roofing3.html


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Pookie. It works great, but it sucks to apply and work around.


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## deter (Apr 4, 2013)

Yep, trowel on tar with fiber in it. Nasty/sticky stuff


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

What kind of nasty joke is it when someone would write up plans using this goop? I think im going to get the nod for USeal by Umaco. but if I dont I guess I will get the feathers ready.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Mastic asphalt is difficult to use unless you know what you are doing with it. Vertical is the hardest. It used to be a 5 year apprenticeship here, although it got knocked down to 3 like all the other trades.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Ive rolled tar on a few dozen foundations in my day, but never stuccoed with tar? The hell is wrong with people lol.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Yo J, I just trialed a product which Allied Bldg. Supply is now carrying which is a trowel on mastic - more like a thick elastomeric and it went on easy w/ no odor.

I would *not* hesitate to use the product again. 

I've got some pics and literature on it, I'll post it a little later...

SS

BTW..it's "Thoroseal" for future reference...:whistling


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Ahh nice let me know who makes it although I think the Useal is going to go through. I hope anyways as its already on the wall and all...


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

I have been using this product for the past 6-7 yrs. I feel it has the rest beat. Goes on quick,is tuff as nails.



https://www.google.com/search?q=pla...RGsGviQKQhoGwAg&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=617


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Hey J, That system I trialed for Allied is called Scudo system.

here's the link for your reference,...I will say it was quite easy to apply and I don't remember any odor.

http://www.winklerchimica.com/en/products/waterproofing-products/foundations/scudo-system


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Nice, i watched the video and it looks like it goes on easy. 

Whats the best method you use to apply thoroseal? I used a mason brush on the Useal and while the instructions said it can be put on like this or a sprayer I thought I was missing something. 

Is the stuff supposed to be really runny or like loose pancake mix?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

JBM said:


> Nice, i watched the video and it looks like it goes on easy.
> 
> Whats the best method you use to apply thoroseal? I used a mason brush on the Useal and while the instructions said it can be put on like this or a sprayer I thought I was missing something.
> 
> Is the stuff supposed to be really runny or like loose pancake mix?


I usually whip it up with the paddle,..."loose pancake" sounds appropriate.
A 3:1 acryl 60 blend, tampico brush and dampen the wall prior app.

I'm always damping the wall using that stuff - make the job go much easier.

You need admix in the Useal?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Damp wall, long bristle brush for Thoroseal. Basically want to apply 2 coats at once, one vertically, one horizontally, they recommend a "W" type motion. FYI, Thoroseal is the best product out there for most applications, and I do not even sell it. It is good chit. If you want to make your own for 1/3 price though, I do know the ingredients.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Yes admix in the Useal. I used a mason brush and it was not too bad but I felt there was a better way. 

Maybe I should wet the wall more then it was.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Tscarborough said:


> Damp wall, long bristle brush for Thoroseal. Basically want to apply 2 coats at once, one vertically, one horizontally, they recommend a "W" type motion. FYI, Thoroseal is the best product out there for most applications, and I do not even sell it. It is good chit. If you want to make your own for 1/3 price though, I do know the ingredients.


I'd like to know T...


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Ya me too


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

3


d.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Here on east coast been using sure wall. Excellent water prof quality while adding strength. Been using it nearly 20+ years. No call backs yet. We mix in regular mortar mixer and apply like stucco with 12" Concrete finish trowel. Float out with rubber float and a little water. Or masonry sponge,float keeps fingers from looking like raisins.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

The brush on,spray on,roll on,daub on coatings are great until........until a crack appears,that is where the peel and stick or materials like platon pull out way ahead. They are capable of preventing water intrusion by their very nature of their ability to bridge the gap.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

fjn said:


> The brush on,spray on,roll on,daub on coatings are great until........until a crack appears,that is where the peel and stick or materials like platon pull out way ahead. They are capable of preventing water intrusion by their very nature of their ability to bridge the gap.


Have worked with several rubber/membrane products. But on large scale jobs theses products are left exposed to the elements for a long duration. Seals fail along with termination points. The sun,rain,standing water beat them up. If applied and back filled quickly or covered such as termination points that roll over the brick ledge on typical monolithic footer, they work as designed. Seen a lot of failures in real time job completion. The spray foam coatings that are applied on my current job seem to be the go to now. Consistency on brick ledge in regards to levelness is a challenge. This stuff reminds me of the spray in bed linings for our trucks. Need a jack hammer to remove it. Elements don't put a blemish in it. Every engineer has a different mind set when it comes to water proofing. The spray black sealants/ water proofing seems to bleed/ run bad after exposure to rain. That tells me it's thinning and isn't very moisture proof? Just my experiences nothing more.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

I have not been in situations where the peel and stick materials have been left exposed to the elements for a long time. As I previously posted,my favorite product is Platon. It goes on with mechanical fasteners,with that said,there are no glue edges or seams to pull away.


I can relate to what you said about long term exposure however,that is more an issue of construction scheduling as opposed to product fitness for purpose. It is similar to house wrap or roofing felt going past its time frame for exposure,it is a result of bad practices.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Bad practices or you could say mother nature. Piece work is not possible on large scale military jobs where duration could be 1,2 years. You have several buildings 5 to 7 sometimes as many as 12 in one instance. Phases and logistics rule the schedule. Masonry is the only aspect that we deal with all other aspects are subbed out, therefore only controllable to a small degree for my trade. Agreed that management by the General Contractors directly effect the points made. As I stated the scenarios were only witnessed not controlled by me. My job scope is what it is. Just passing along some first hand info nothing more. That's the bottom line to put info out there,as we all know every situation is different thus making us all more well informed/wiser as we go. Thanks for all input. Learned a lot in the short time here so far.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I think Platon is the way to go as well. And not only for its "waterproofing" but also the bondbreak. Stopping soil from freezing against a masonry wall is a huge bonus. The spray on (green skin is the name I can think of but essentially liquid rubber membrane)is good for new construction but i wonder about older foundations that have been "breathing" for the last 20 years- 100+years. Platon still gives these foundations a chance to do what they always did, and keeps the soil and water away at the same time.

Now to be fair, I have seen tons of Platon and the caulking at the top seam had pulled away but it's still a bondbreak and will keep the water moving towards the drain tile


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

dom-mas said:


> I think Platon is the way to go as well. And not only for its "waterproofing" but also the bondbreak. Stopping soil from freezing against a masonry wall is a huge bonus. The spray on (green skin is the name I can think of but essentially liquid rubber membrane)is good for new construction but i wonder about older foundations that have been "breathing" for the last 20 years- 100+years. Platon still gives these foundations a chance to do what they always did, and keeps the soil and water away at the same time.
> 
> Now to be fair, I have seen tons of Platon and the caulking at the top seam had pulled away but it's still a bondbreak and will keep the water moving towards the drain tile




That pulling away of the caulk you mentioned is a very distinct possibility however,the reason you have seen it is because the installer failed to use the "transition" strip made by Platon to terminate the top most portion of their material and enhance the seal of the waterproofing. This transition strip I mention works as a type of counter flashing. It will help hold the material in place as well as disallow soil from getting behind the membrane.


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