# Estimate dispute/contract dispute



## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

Ugh!

I was hoping to never have this happen!

Ok so here goes... I bid on a job to do soffits, front porch, dormer, touch up where the crappy siders left off...

Caulk joints/holes...

here is what my contract says....

powerwash front porch and rinse soffits
scrape sand caulk prime and paint all wood soffits + facsia around house
sand prime paint front railings
sand, repoly front porch ceiling
sand, prime, caulk front porch floor
bleach roof to remove mold

So, I called the HO tonight cause we got rained out... it was raining pretty good this morning, we need the rain, I am not complaining...

I called the HO and said we would most likely be done Monday, possibly tuesday...

He said, 'what about the back porch'

I said, 'what about the back porch'
he said 'I thought you were painting it'
I said, 'last i spoke to you it was 'up in the air''
He said 'ill have to look at the contract, have a good week end'
I said 'Ok well you do the same'

using what I have learned around you millionaires:whistling... I tried my hardest not to argue with the guy...

what you see above is the exact wording of the contract which he signed....


I have never had an unhappy client, and quiet frankly i dont want one... it doesnt help that I am pushing back another client, which we were supposed to start Monday, back to Wednesday... 

Any and all advice besides telling him off and being a total dick is appreciated. I have worked for him before, and remember, I have to sleep at night even if some of you dont 'care' :whistling

So... advice on how to handle this situation is requested.... :sad:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Be more specific. Avoid boiler plate verbiage. Paint the back porch.


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

I wish to clarify, there is NOTHING in my contract (or notes) regarding the back porch... NOTHING! the back porch doesnt have any soffits or fascia... We chatted about it, and i made suggestions, but he told me 'not to include it' according to my notes, ( looked and talked to him) back in March..

The back porch is pretty intense.... 24+ removable windows/screens


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

bid the back porch!.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Then tell him that. But right or wrong painting the back porch will cost less than an angry online customer.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

What I do is if something is discussed but not firmed up prior to contracting the job, it becomes part of the exclusions clause. Example based on your case would be
Exclusions would include but not be limited to:
(Discussed item #1 concerning) backporch
(Discussed item #2 concerning) backporch 
(Discussed item #3 concerning) backporch 
Painting of any aspect of back porch located on south side of residence. 

I also include footage on items such as facia, paint 219 ln ft of facia extending from left corner of west side of residence to right corner of east side of residence to include north side of residence, or something to that affect. 

Of course all of the wording would be tightened up but that is the jist of it.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

I think I would stand firm and simply say that the back porch was not included and not priced. However I would be happy to price it and complete the work without interuption. 

I think anyone reasonable could agree.

I think your contract language sounds straight forward enough. 

I don't believe I would paint it for free, but maybe give them a decent price and do them a good job. 
Pushing back customers sucks but sometimes unavoidable.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out for you.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Not sure what you are concerned about. He said he would read the contract. He'll answer his own question.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

its a no brainer.. your contract is clear enough..has it said "porch" instead of 'front porch'..there may be a small argument..

stop sweating it..

I has a similar situation and it sucks when the owner insists you are wrong..but bottomline,,thats why we write it and sign it..this way timeframe means nothing..

3 months..3 years..whats written is gold....verbal is ok and alot different has he said..you said you would paint it 3 colors ..not just one.


those types of things can be disputed..( and should be written too)..


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Sounds like the price you gave him seemed high to him.. and he's trying to get extra work included in the price. I don't like to work for free.. Idk about you. If you need the work id paint the porch for him.

This has happend to me a few times before. Same thing basically just not paint. 

One time I said "no that's no included". I didn't really need the work. In the end I didn't get the job...

Another time I bit my tounge and decided to do the extra work I knew I didn't include in the bid. I needed the work at the time.. I got the job.. and more work after that job from same client.

It's a gamble that you need acess the gains and losses and see where you end up after your evaluation.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I am with Matt on this one. You need to weigh the cost of painting the back porch versus an unhappy customer. I would at least offer to do it at cost.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Just show up Monday and see how the conversation flows...


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

just my two cents....but doesn't seem like you have had much of a disagreement.

All you customer did was ask about the back porch & said he was going to look at the contract....:thumbsup:

Just what exactly have you actually disagreed on?...

Seems like maybe you might be having a panic attack...:whistling:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Then tell him that. But right or wrong painting the back porch will cost less than an angry online customer.


:no:

If it is not in the SOW its not happening. I dont mislead verbally and "forget" in the scope either.

A simple scope should be very clear, if they didnt read it, thats their deal. :thumbsup:

Doing "free" work in a strong arm situation will screw your rep up just as bad


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Can also be very important to state in the SOW what is not included.

Probably more true in remodels & TI.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

Take your clients advice and have a good weekend. He may well read the contract and figure out himself that the porch is not included.

Times like this is when you wonder how your contract would hold up in a dispute. Well it's fresh in your mind you might have a lawyer look over your paper work and advise you on tweaks for future use.

From what you're sharing, I see no mention of the back porch and some fairly specific mentions concerning the front porch. 24 windows and screens means this porch is probably a lot more work than the one that was included. I wouldn't rollover for that.

1. Enjoy your weekend
2. Review your contract Monday morning
3. Talk to the man before this festers

Good Luck
Dave


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

I think the question here will be how much the ho will want you to do something for nothing or at a discount for "your mistake"...? These tangles will come up once in a while. Sounds like you're handling it well.

You may have to give a bit / they will give a bit to get paid. Is it worth 4 or 8 hrs to get it behind you ? Let us know ?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> :no:
> 
> If it is not in the SOW its not happening. I dont mislead verbally and "forget" in the scope either.
> 
> ...


I understand your point but it is our job as business owners to make very clear our sow. If the back porch was discussed during the bid meeting then it should either appear as IS included or NOT included. Everything discussed should make an appearance. Let say Im getting bids from drywallers and we talk about drywalling an upstairs room and the basement. When the drywaller gives me his price I assume it includes what we discussed if not other wise detailed. There is grey area here. I expect the guys who are already as established as they want to be will have a different opinion than those of us who are still pursuing growth in our businesses. I see your situation as an opportunity to gain a long time customers and outstanding google review. Perhaps offer the labor and make him responsible for the paint.


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

Be careful with exclusions, it may become a slippery slope if it did come down to legal litigation. If A, B and C where excluded then why not D & E? 

You're scope of work needs to be clearly written and understood by a reasonable person. 

I wouldn't give work away, especially with a clearly written scope. But if I felt for a second the scope can be interpreted and/or it gives the impression that other work was included I'd step up to the plate and do it. Even if it was discussed verbally and I recall I may have given the impression (verbally) it would be included, I'd do it.
You have to be honest with yourself and view it as a reasonable client would view the scope to include their interpretation of any conversation. 

I don't agree with the rule "if it's not in writing, it's not included" I'm honest and will always give the benefit to the client if there is a gray area, especially if I said something that I shouldn't have said. 

This is why you need to cross your T's and dot your I's in your agreement and be clear, short and direct with your verbal descriptions of the project.

It's your business, so it's your call


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> :no:
> 
> If it is not in the SOW its not happening. I dont mislead verbally and "forget" in the scope either.
> 
> ...


I question you strong attitude. It seems that you are ready for a fight and not for a compromise. As Matt stated you can try to be as clear as you want, but omitting something from the contract does not mean that you made it clear.

I too have learned this lesson and have stepped away from "simple" contracts. "Simple" is not always better in a contract. Again, I am with Matt. I always layout what the contract does and does not include based on our discussion. That way there is very little chance of confusion. I also outline what products are included. I know that this sounds like a no brainer, but anything discussed in quoting needs to be addressed in the contract.

It is not their deal if they didn't read the contract. If you handed them a contract and did not go over it line by line, shame on you. Before they signed it, you should have gone over it line by line to ensure their understanding. It is not on them, it is on you to make sure they know what you are and are not going to do.

Doing "Free" work isn't the same as not being clear on a contract. An angry upset customer can do great damage to your rep. They will let everyone know that what they think about you, right or wrong. If you do a little work at cost or for FREE for their satisfaction, on an unclear agreement, it could be seen as weakness, but most likely it will be seen as great customer service. It's all in the way you handle it.

So far it seems like you are ready for a fight and are not going to back down or admit to any wrong. Good luck!


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

hmmm.interesting juxtaposition of opinions:cheesygri


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I question your strong attitude.


That's funny. Seems like you've got quite the strong attitude yourself as well as an unwillingness to compromise. Just saying.....


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

well thats for sure,but all you jo's got a little of that


i'm the only normal one here even if i never use capitals:whistling


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Tom Struble said:


> well thats for sure,but all you jo's got a little of that
> 
> i'm the only normal one here even if i never use capitals:whistling


You're about as normal as davinci


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

big D or little?:blink:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

RemodelGA said:


> That's funny. Seems like you've got quite the strong attitude yourself as well as an unwillingness to compromise. Just saying.....


Please explain? Unwillingness to compromise with what and whom?


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Little d


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

What's your overall reputation among your client base?

If your generally viewed as one who delivers honest value, quality service, etc. I wouldn't worry about one guy that might not appreciate your agreement. As long as the rest of your customer base feels you treat them right you can survive the occasional detractor.

Worry too much about this guy, spend an extra couple of days at no charge, put off the next client even more. Doesn't sound like a good scenario to me. 

The whole thing really depends on the written agreement and what's in it. If it's there for the protection of one party it has to be there for the protection of the other also. There is nothing adversarial about reviewing a document together and coming to a mutual conclusion. Hopefully one that is fair to both parties.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Please explain? Unwillingness to compromise with what and whom?


everything and everyone...your doing it right now:blink:


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Please explain? Unwillingness to compromise with what and whom?


Looking at your response to jaws. You pretty much picked his post apart and said he was wrong. When, in fact, he's not wrong. Neither are you. But there are various ways to successfully run a company. 

You come off with a strong attitude. It is what it is. But it's just funny and ironic that you condemn someone else for their strong attitude.

Dang it man, it's not as funny when I have to explain it


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i learnd that along time ago:whistling


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

> Dang it man, it's not as funny when I have to explain it


Ain't that the truth....


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

RemodelGA said:


> Looking at your response to jaws. You pretty much picked his post apart and said he was wrong. When, in fact, he's not wrong. Neither are you. But there are various ways to successfully run a company.
> 
> You come off with a strong attitude. It is what it is. But it's just funny and ironic that you condemn someone else for their strong attitude.
> 
> Dang it man, it's not as funny when I have to explain it


What's really funny is you have a strong attitude about my strong attitude.:laughing:

Any way, yes I picked apart his comment. I tried to show him that his attitude with his customer stinks, just as you have tried to show me that my attitude with Jaws stinks. :whistling

It's not ironic because my relationship with Jaws and anyone else on CT is not the same as his relationship with his customer or me with my customers.

I compromise with my customers all day everyday. Heck I bend over more than a hooker on Halsted for my customers. I don't know how many times I have taken it in the rear for the sake of peace. You may find it ironic and funny, but having a strong attitude with a customer is not a laughing matter, nor is it ironic that I have different persona's with different people. I would never speak to my mother the same way I speak to my children. I would never speak to a customer the same way I speak to a vendor. It's allowed to have a strong attitude sometimes and not others. There are no rules that say I have to be the same way with everyone all of the time.

After less than two years my company is profitable and all of my customers are from referrals. I stand by my work and the way I do business. Standing your ground, and not compromising with customers, is never a successful model of business.


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

and we wouldn't want you any other way:notworthy:hang:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> and we wouldn't want you any other way:notworthy:hang:


Sometimes they make it too easy...


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I only do what it says I am going to do. Nothing else.

You want something else done, it will cost you.

It is always written down what they are getting paying for, anything else costs.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i include everything then don't do what they didn't expect:whistling


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I compromise with my customers all day everyday. Heck I bend over more than a hooker on Halsted for my customers. I don't know how many times I have taken it in the rear for the sake of peace.
> 
> 
> After less than two years my company is profitable and all of my customers are from referrals. I stand by my work and the way I do business. Standing your ground, and not compromising with customers, is never a successful model of business.


I don't get it. Really.

If you add to the scope without adding to the cost all you are really doing is lowering the price. How is that a successfull model of business? 

Me, I'll stand my ground and not compromise. 
But hey, to each their own.


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## fourcornerhome (Feb 19, 2008)

Happened to me once. Was doing a bunch of things for this lady, one of which was to cap the casings on a 6' door. she has two 6' doors on the back of the house and the wood casing on one is pretty bad. Everything else on the house already has existing aluminum. I ask her if she would like me to case both doors so everything matches and she says " no, just this one. the other is still good and we will paint it". OK. Contract says "cap casing with aluminum on ONE 6' door at back of house". I'm all done and time to get paid, she says "arn't you going to cover the other trim?" I tell her that she said not to and the contract says just the one door. Then she says that she thought I was going to do it anyways. ??? No problem, set up the brake and do it. we had previously talked about other work in the future so I was OK with this at no additional charge and she was happy. She never called for the other work. I think she thought I was trying to rip her off. Never can figure how peoples brains work.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

[

After less than two years my company is profitable and all of my customers are from referrals. I stand by my work and the way I do business. Standing your ground, and not compromising with customers, is never a successful model of business.[/QUOTE]


well then your doing it all wrong..you must like paying taxes!...:jester:


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I didn't say I wouldn't, just that I don't have to. :laughing:


 Not that there's anything wrong with that.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Heck I bend over more than a hooker on Halsted for my customers. I don't know how many times I have taken it in the rear for the sake of peace.





TNTSERVICES said:


> I don't have to sleep with any of you guys.





TNTSERVICES said:


> I didn't say I wouldn't, just that I don't have to. :laughing:


Sorry I disagreed with you. That is servicing your customers on a level I don't even want to think about.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I have had this business for three years, but never said I have been in business for that long. I have owned my own company for over 10 years.
> 
> So next time you assume something from one post, I suggest you ask questions instead of making assumptions.
> 
> Oh, and years in business can indicate a wiser businessman, but there are a lot of guys I wouldn't take advice from who have been in business longer than 25 years. Some of those guys at Enron come to mind.


rob,
re-read your post #33
I think a reasonable person would conclude---from YOUR statement----that you have been in business for 2 years.

you really can't blame us for not knowing that you were not presenting yourself accureately,
LOL
Stephen


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Stephen H said:


> rob,
> re-read your post #33
> I think a reasonable person would conclude---from YOUR statement----that you have been in business for 2 years.
> 
> ...


It is reasonable to conclude that I have been in business for two years, with this business, but not that I have only 2 years experience. That is the exception that I took. I think that it is reasonable to ask someone what their experience is before assuming that you know from one post. It was a condescending post using his experience as the sole reason for knowing better.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

:whistling


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Stephen H said:


> you really can't blame us for not knowing that you were not presenting yourself accureately,
> LOL
> Stephen


And isn't that the real problem most of the time....For customers and CT posts alike.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

I suggest we put out an APB on the OP because he's AWOL.

His lack of presence in his own thread suggests that the morning negotiations didn't go that well and he is likely in a flower bed as we speak. It is likely that Rob will refute this evidence. :>)

Good Luck
Dave


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

DavidC said:


> I suggest we put out an APB on the OP because he's AWOL.
> 
> His lack of presence in his own thread suggests that the morning negotiations didn't go that well and he is likely in a flower bed as we speak. It is likely that Rob will refute this evidence. :>)
> 
> ...


Maybe the OP was successfull and is too busy or too tired to respond?...I think you meant..
ATTEMPT to refute...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I question you strong attitude. It seems that you are ready for a fight and not for a compromise. As Matt stated you can try to be as clear as you want, but omitting something from the contract does not mean that you made it clear.
> 
> I too have learned this lesson and have stepped away from "simple" contracts. "Simple" is not always better in a contract. Again, I am with Matt. I always layout what the contract does and does not include based on our discussion. That way there is very little chance of confusion. I also outline what products are included. I know that this sounds like a no brainer, but anything discussed in quoting needs to be addressed in the contract.
> 
> ...



Wow.

Like i said, my SOW is very clear, if it is not clear on something, i will eat it. Its happened, but not in a while.

I dont have a strong attitude, i put a lot of time into my SOW, I offer to go over my scope and contract section by section, and often do. But i am not a school teacher, im not going to insult my clients by insisting to go over something that is clearly written and easy to understand.

I have done some things for free because i have made an assumption, ommision or error before, try to keep that to a minimum. :thumbsup: I have also done some inclusions in cases where i was doing well on the job and the client had really wanted something to included, but couldnt afford it. That is a personal decision. 

Im a profesional contractor, i have a very strong back bone, im not going to be pushed around. I believe that is important in our line of work. 

That being said, almost everyone we do work for is a repeat client and a source of referrals, i think our customer service is outstanding.

IMHO, getting backed into a corner and pushed to do something you clearly stated you wouldnt do is dumb, and exposes you as weak, which will follow your referrals :no:

If you dont write a clear and profesional scope, then shame on you. Get to slinging paint on that back porch :thumbsup:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Also, in my opinion, comprimise takes place before a contract is signed, not after.

Also, as to having satisfied clients;

1) be clear what will be done and not done and for what price
2) be courteous and profesional
3) your crews are courteous and profesional
4) show respect for your clients homes and property
5) do outstanding work
6) show on time and be on schedule
7) stand behind your work and materials
8) respond quickly to voicemails and emails
9) knock out punch lists and warranty immediately and dont try to slip aroind any of it
10) undersell over deliver

Doing work for free just shows you lack respect for your self, your trade and your company. If you dont respect yourself, why should anyone else?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> What's really funny is you have a strong attitude about my strong attitude.:laughing:
> 
> Any way, yes I picked apart his comment. I tried to show him that his attitude with his customer stinks, just as you have tried to show me that my attitude with Jaws stinks. :whistling
> 
> ...



Dude, who pissed in your corn flakes? 

The audacity to question my relationships with my clients because i said i stand behind my SOW is unbelievable, and says a lot about your ability to reason. Dont assume because im not a kiss ass to my clients that we dont get along :thumbsup:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Jaws said:


> The audacity to question my relationships with my clients because i said i stand behind my SOW is unbelievable, and says a lot about your ability to reason. :


I think his ability to reason, or lack of, is well established by previous posts...


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I have a clear scope of work. If you have trouble understanding it, learn comprehension skills.

My contract is on the back of the proposal. Since I am not a one call close type, they have this info from the first meeting until I see them to sign. I don't go over it with them.

It really isn't that hard. If it isn't written down, it didn't happen. I work with WAY too many different people each day to remember conversations.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I think his ability to reason, or lack of, is well established by previous posts...


Ah, i like Rob, and enjoy arguing with him:laughing:

Just think he picked the wrong post to pick apart, i didnt leave anything out of my SOW or contract, atleast not lately.

As to the good luck post, ill see you in 30 years, pal. Ill remain profitable, hopefully you quit working for free :thumbsup:

PS : 

JF, havent figured how to set up auto capitols on my Razor, dont hound me yet :laughing:

Just imitating Struble :thumbsup:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Ah, i like Rob, and enjoy arguing with him:laughing:
> 
> Just think he picked the wrong post to pick apart, i didnt leave anything out of my SOW or contract, atleast not lately.
> 
> ...


I agree.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

oops


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Also, in my opinion, comprimise takes place before a contract is signed, not after.
> 
> Also, as to having satisfied clients;
> 
> ...


Compromise happens all the time, you said it yourself a few post back. Again, just pointing out what you said. See bold:

"I have done some things for free because i have made an assumption, ommision or error before, try to keep that to a minimum. *I have also done some inclusions in cases where i was doing well on the job and the client had really wanted something to included, but couldnt afford it.* That is a personal decision."

That's still a compromise. Your customer wanted, could not afford it, and you did it. Compromise doesn't have to be coerced.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Dude, who pissed in your corn flakes?
> 
> The audacity to question my relationships with my clients because i said i stand behind my SOW is unbelievable, and says a lot about your ability to reason. Dont assume because im not a kiss ass to my clients that we dont get along :thumbsup:


You assume that I questioned because you said you stand behind it. There is a difference to standing behind it and leaving up to your client to blow in the wind, because you failed to go over it with them. That is what I based my statement on. I didn't assume anything because you don't kiss their ass. Forgive me if I don't think making sure my clients understand my "clear" SOW is kissing their ass.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Doesn't seem like a big deal-Mr. customer said he would look at the contract-which clearly does not state the backporch will be painted.

If he still insists after reading that contract, that it be painted- I would not do business with him...I don't do business with unreasonable people. I don't need that stress and money loss.

I would think what will happen when he looks at it-he will realize what is up and will ask for a seperate price, most people are pretty reasonable, and that is the point of having a written down scope of work, so both contractor and client are clear on what is being done.

I will go above and beyond for customers, however in the end it is business, and you can't be so desperate to please that you do work that you are not fairly compensated for, in the case that the work is clearly stated, no mistakes were made, etc. If you do bend over backwards like that then what is the point of having a written SOW/contract in the first place. IMO. Any good customer will understand this.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I think his ability to reason, or lack of, is well established by previous posts...


My ability to reason or agree, are two different things. Reasoning takes a party that can make an argument that can logically and emotionally connect with the other. If anything, I think that you guys have as much ability to reason as I do. You are as stuck in the mud in your position than I am.

I have laced my posts with if then statements. I have stated it is our duty to ensure the scope of work is understood. I said that I go over my contracts with my customers line by line and ensure they understand what my responsibilities are and what their's are. I never said that anyone HAS to go over line by line, but that it is our minimum duty to ensure they understand the SOW.

I also said that if your SOW is not clear to your customer, because it really doesn't matter if it's clear to you, then you need to make it right.

So my question is, how am I not reasonable? Or is it that I am not agreeable. The latter I would agree with. I am not agreeable. When I feel strongly about things, it takes a lot more to convince me than most.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Ah, i like Rob, and enjoy arguing with him:laughing:
> 
> Just think he picked the wrong post to pick apart, i didnt leave anything out of my SOW or contract, atleast not lately.
> 
> ...


If I am still doing this in 30 years, my 20 year plan hasn't worked, and I may need you assistance.


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## go dart (Dec 6, 2005)

Its me but this attitude that you wipe your butt with $50.00 bills all day long to please people didn't seem to work for the old church lady.




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Quote:




Originally Posted by summithomeinc

Definitely a handfull. I'm curious as to what your response was? It's customers like this that test our patience and our profesionalism. I'm sure you were able to explain the delays and keep the job?

I called her when my wife told about the e-mail. I finally unloaded all that I had held back. I was very professional and curdious. I basically told her that I was not used to not being in control and because she took over the larger aspects of the job it was her responsibility to set the expecation. I spoke to her everyday and she never mentioned anything about not getting enough complete on any day. I told her that she should have communicated better.

I explianed that I have other clients and a family to feed. The biggest problem was when I did her deck she asked that I now take on any other clients. I told her that we could make her priority, but I had other customers that needed some attention. It wasn't a problem.

She mentioned on the phone again, that I had "moved on". Well when you are down to punch list and touch ups, it's time to move on. She just watched too many shows on the DIY channel and expected it all to be done in three days...exaggerating of course, but you get the picture.

I have never been "fired" before, it was an utter shock. Even though I can come off as an ass to you guys here, I am one of the friendliest, most customer centered guys around. I pride myself on my customer service and referrals. I haven't spent any advertising money in a year.

My guess is that last week she was off work when the cabinet guys were there, and they ripped on us enough to convince her to dump us and let them finish. I am going to drive by in the next few days and weeks and see if they are there. If they are there more than next Thursday, I'll know. 
__________________
Rob
Tried & True on Facebook
Tasks & Tools Blog


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

go dart said:


> Its me but this attitude that you wipe your butt with $50.00 bills all day long to please people didn't seem to work for the old church lady.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What???


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## go dart (Dec 6, 2005)

summithomeinc said:


> What???


I've made a mess of it, but my point is TNT clearly blames a comunication error on the homeowner but won't accept the op doing the same thing. Sorry summitomeinc the first lines yours, the rest is robs.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

Dammit, this thread has reached the point where it will either die coughing or reach for epicness and I have a busy enough day to likely miss it. 

I would like to take a moment to thank Rob for the entertainment while admiring his tenacity and send my condolences to the family of the OP. I hope they find him soon.

Good Luck
Dave


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> If I am still doing this in 30 years, my 20 year plan hasn't worked, and I may need you assistance.


I hope that works out, I will be building a lot longer than twenty years no matter how well things go. Mines more of a 40 year plan :thumbsup:

Your holier than thou, I never do any wrong ,I am Gods gift to contracting attitude is what stinks. We all do it from time to time, you seem to do it a little more often and your posts smack of insecurities. 

I dont build or remodel in the projects, my clients are educated and can read, no tricky language to pick through in my SOW or my contract. A simple, " Would you like to go over the SOW" is plenty sufficient. If my client cant decipher :

#163 – PAINTING 
- Contractor will prime all new drywall surfaces with a PVA primer
- Contractor will apply two coats of Sherwin Williams Super Paint to the walls in Living Room 1, as Living Room 1 is labeled on the construction drawings on page 7 of this document . Color and sheen to be selected by the client
- Contractor will apply two coats of Pro Mar 200 to the ceiling and coffers in Living Room 1 , as Living Room 1 is labeled on the construction drawings on page 7 of this document 
- All drywall surfaces in Living Room 1, as Living Room 1 is labeled on the construction docments on page 7 of this document will be brushed and rolled. 
- The moldings being replaced ( moldings to be replaced in Living Room 1 are listed under section #161 on page 2 of this document) in Living Room 1 , as Living Room 1 is labeled on the construction drawings on page 7 of this document, will be primed with an alkyd based primer, sanded thoroughly, and sprayed with one coat of Sherwin Williams Pro Classic Alkyd Semi Gloss 6131 Extra White, as selected by the client, in the contractors shop prior to installation.
-Moldings installed by the contractor in Living Room 1, as Living Room 1 is labeled on the construction drawings in page 7 of this document, will be caulked and filled where nessacary. Contractor will use Shermax acrylic caulk 
- Contractor will apply a second coat of Pro Classic Alkyd 6131 Extra White to all moldings in Living Room 1, as Living Room 1 is labeled on the construction drawings on page 7 of this document, with a brush, no paint will be applied in the clients home with a sprayer. 
- IN SHORT, THE PAINTING OF THE CLIENTS BACK PORCH IS NOT INCLUDED IN THIS ESTIMATE. IF YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH TO READ THIS RIDICULOUSLY CLEAR AND REDUNDANT SCOPE OF WORK, IT IS NOT LIKELY I WILL EVER HEAR FROM YOU AGAIN BECAUSE THE FIXED PRICE FOR THE WORK DESCRIBED IN THIS DOCUMENT, LISTED IN SECTION .IV OF THIS CONTRACT WILL BE FAR MORE THAN YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY OF AFFORD! IF YOU ARE BLIND OR CAN NOT READ BUT STILL LIKE THE PRICE, PLEASE TAKE ME UP ON MY INITIAL OFFER TO GO OVER THE SCOPE WITH YOU. OR CALL ROB WITH TNT SERVICES AND HE WILL INSIST YOU NEED HELP READING THIS DOCUMENT AND WILL FORCE YOU TO GO OVER IT WITH SECTION BY SECTION.

WARNING : I AM A PROFESIONAL CONTRACTOR, I EXPECT TO BE PAID FOR MY WORK. 

WARNING : I DONT WORK FOR FREE!!!!!:clap:

WARNING ; IF YOU ADD TO THIS SOW , SEE BELOW ;

Changes: Changes, modifications, additions and/or deletions to the Work under this Proposal will only be made by written change order signed by the Owner and the Contractor. Any such changes will not invalidate this Proposal. The work will be completed upon receipt of the approved change order. Each approved change order will be due at the time of the completion of change order. The time for project completion and the project cost will be adjusted accordingly. 

The Contractor is not responsible for existing, concealed conditions that may be revealed during remodeling. 
Any rotted or deteriorated materials, not included in the above “Scope of Work” will be brought to the attention of the owners. A “Change Order” will be presented for replacement or repair at that time. 

Obviously the last sections in bold were for your benefit , Rob. Dont attack a spelling or grammer error either, please, I wrote this on the fly from memory on my smart phone while waiting for a sub. 

Point is, there is nothing hard to understand about the way my scopes are written. Each category from liability insurance , permiting, design, all the way to laing sod and moving my clients furniture back in is clearly written in each scope of work. No room for miscommunication, misunderstanding or error there. I write scopes for everything from a drywall repair in a ceiling to a simle repaint to building a new custom home. 

As i said, you keep "comprimising" and working for free, and i will hold my ground while my clients keep telling their friends about how awesome their latest project was :thumbsup:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Holy cow, who reads all that? Lol. That should clarify any confusion though.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Yeah your right JF, no point........


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

It's time...........


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

This is becoming a perpetual arguement over a difference of opinion in business practice & the perception of how far one goes to achieve a high level of customer satisfaction.

Jay's thread is appropriate to close this on.:thumbsup:


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