# Sub contractor stole job



## kuke0020 (Aug 22, 2012)

I own a fence installation company. I had a subcontractor install a $7000.00 job for me. The customer called the day of install and wanted another $5000 worth of fence. The sub undercut me and installed the job. I currently owe this sub $1200 for another job. What would everyone do?


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

I'd keep it. Not hire him again. Sign a no compete contract with any other subs you use.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Keep it? Its not yours; he did what he was hired to do. But fire him and not call him again? Maybe; depends if he can make you money in the future or not. If you know he cant then buh bye. But dont be a thief because he valued short term money over a long term relationship. Perhaps he took the job cause he had a feeling you were looking for a reason to stiff him already?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Eric K said:


> I'd keep it.......


So you advocate theft?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Eric, you would be wrong for keeping it. That is theft of services.

As for the OP. What does your contract say? No Contract? No Clause? Sounds like you learned your lesson.


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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)

His name wasn't Bruno was it?


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

kuke0020 said:


> I own a fence installation company. I had a subcontractor install a $7000.00 job for me. The customer called the day of install and wanted another $5000 worth of fence. The sub undercut me and installed the job. I currently owe this sub $1200 for another job. What would everyone do?


the ho honoured your original contract, no?
and decided to go with someone else for another job,no?
and went with someone you sometimes give work to, no?
wheres the problem?

i don't think you own him.

you bid, he bid, you lost, suck it up


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## kuke0020 (Aug 22, 2012)

He has made close to $80, 000 off me this year. He does have a noncompete and you can bet that if they hit a water line while digging they'd be trying to use my insurance since I supply that.


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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)

I'd pay the man and never give him another job.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

kuke0020 said:


> He has made close to $80, 000 off me this year. He does have a noncompete and you can bet that if they hit a water line while digging they'd be trying to use my insurance since I supply that.


So if they have a non compete, what is the penalty for competing?

Pay him the $1200 and terminate your relationship with him. Also, if you have good relationships with other contractors, don't be afraid to tell the truth about why you guys no longer work together if you're asked.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Pay him and then loose his number. I had a sub try to do that to me. I found out that every time i left the job he was giving out his card to everyone he could and saying he could beat my prices. I just don't use him anymore, and neither do any of the guys he tried to weasel from me


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## Mississippi (Jan 3, 2013)

1st Pay him what you owe him...


If ya'll haven't already had a talk, now's the time.

I use a couple of Subs regularly. We have a good understanding about this kind of thing. If someone approaches him about a fence while he is working on one of my jobs, he hands them my business card. 

If they pressure him to go around me, he politely tells them that he's not willing jeopardize the relationship he has with me, for one job.


If he refers them to me and they buy, I make sure he gets to install the job, and also give him a little extra $$.

He knows that I take care of him, so he takes care of me. 


If he's not will to take care of you, send him down the road.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

kuke0020 said:


> you can bet that if they hit a water line while digging they'd be trying to use my insurance since I supply that.


How do you supply insurance for a sub?


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## kuke0020 (Aug 22, 2012)

I think I'm going to just pay him and then make an example of him. What pisses me off though is I've taken care of this guy. I've paid him ahead a few times when he needed money.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> How do you supply insurance for a sub?


You can have liability insurance extend to subcontracted services.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> You can have liability insurance extend to subcontracted services.


Thanks for the lesson. I already know that you can, but why would you. If they are legit, no reason to extend anything to them.

Sorry, that sounded bad...just meant "How" as in what would be the reason for it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

kuke0020 said:


> I think I'm going to just pay him and then make an example of him. What pisses me off though is I've taken care of this guy. I've paid him ahead a few times when he needed money.


Never do something for someone as a favor and expect anything in return.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Never do something for someone as a favor and expect anything in return.


 Words to live bye .


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Thanks for the lesson. I already know that you can, but why would you. If they are legit, no reason to extend anything to them.
> 
> Sorry, that sounded bad...just meant "How" as in what would be the reason for it.


No idea.


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## kuke0020 (Aug 22, 2012)

The main reason I do is so that just in case something happens I've crossed all of my t's. The extra $200 a year is well worth it to prevent someone from finding some loop hole and me losing everything. The subs are required to have thier own liability and commercial auto.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Have you spoken with your sub?

Any chance he was duped by the HO?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Id likely pay the guy because its the right thing to do. Two wrongs don't make a right. In business the high road always is best. I might write something like, "The guy cashing this check is a douche bag thief" on the memo line though...


That is classic because because I would have no issues writing that on the back of the check... or something similar. Then cashing it becomes a pride issue for the loser wanting the money.


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## thesidingpro (Jun 7, 2007)

Couple things to think about.


1)The sub's I use would never do that to me without asking. I take care of them and they typically prefer to do my work because I pay fast, have all the details worked out so they can get in and get out with little problems. It's a 2-way street. Without knowing the details I'd be willing to bet he had little value in the business relationship.

2)The customer really wasn't pleased with your management or some other issue. I make sure I'm seen on the jobs daily and keep everybody on a short leesh. My subs wouldn't have been able to get away with that because I don't just give them an address and tell them to call me when there done. Again I don't know the details on how you run your business but this is just what I see often.

I'd pay the sub for sure. I wouldn't want the bad karma. I'd tell people what happened but that's all it would be. A story. You have nothing to gain from a witch hunt.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

FWIW guys, while a non-compete clause looks good on paper, it's very seldom enforceable in court. Pay the guy and move on.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> FWIW guys, while a non-compete clause looks good on paper, it's very seldom enforceable in court. Pay the guy and move on.


That all depends on how much money one has to eff with another:whistling


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> The ho has some balls calling you to fix the gate. Why on earth wouldn't he call the sub who built it after pulling a stunt like that. This just doesn't make sense to me...


He called Kuke because it was his job. Would you expect a client to call one of your lead hands about a warranty issue? He paid Kuke for the gate, Kuke's responsibility to fix it


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Pay the sub. You owe him the money. Then fire him. Quickly. Don't let him on any other jobs. If he wants to know why, tell him the truth.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> the ho honoured your original contract, no?
> and decided to go with someone else for another job,no?
> and went with someone you sometimes give work to, no?
> wheres the problem?
> ...


Maybe the sub got the homeowner drunk so he could convince him to skip out on kuke.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> Maybe the sub got the homeowner drunk so he could convince him to skip out on kuke.


maybe the sub gave the HO more confidence than he did,
Because someone is a GC, doesn't mean he knows what he's doing


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> maybe the sub gave the HO more confidence than he did,
> Because someone is a GC, doesn't mean he knows what he's doing


Maybe the homeowner is also a dirt bag, we already know that the sub is.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> Maybe the homeowner is also a dirt bag, we already know that the sub is.


actually we know only 1 side of the story.
to draw conclusions is not professional.
that I can drink too


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> actually we know only 1 side of the story.
> to draw conclusions is not professional.
> that I can drink too


The sub signed a non compete agreement, he broke it... The other side of the story is irrelevant. The sub is a dirt bag.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> The sub signed a non compete agreement, he broke it... The other side of the story is irrelevant. The sub is a dirt bag.


thats not what he first wrote, changing his story is not a good.

non compete contracts are not relevant, 
In todays world everybody is a GC, 
I see plumber GC, electrician GC, excavation GC, rooferGC,
Almost every sub is a GC,
There are more General Contractors on the job than workers


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> thats not what he first wrote, changing his story is not a good.
> 
> non compete contracts are not relevant,
> In todays world everybody is a GC,
> ...


The sub gave his word and broke it... dirt bag... typically the only people who side with people like that are other people who's word is worthless.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

glad you were there to straighten it all out,
Now if only we knew where his business is located so that we could go have a talk with him about how we roll on CT forum, that will teach him


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> glad you were there to straighten it all out,
> Now if only we knew where his business is located so that we could go have a talk with him about how we roll on CT forum, that will teach him


It's not just CT, honorable people give their word and it means something, dirtbags words are useless just like they are.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Tell him yes but dont pay or drag it out for a long time....Screw em maybe he will give up.

People dont know what the situation is with the worker on site, anytime I ever do sub work for another contractor and am asked to do something I will check with whom I am doing it for or have the customer run it by him prior. Should be a no brainer


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## parkers5150 (Dec 5, 2008)

it happened the way it always happens...Job gets signed, work begins,interested HO gets chatty with employees, develops repore, HO sez "Do you think it would be possible?...


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## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Have we automatically eliminated the possibility that the HO got the price from Kuke, then turned around to the sub and said, "hey I need this extra work done and Kuke said just deal directly with you, so can you give me a price?"


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

gbruzze1 said:


> Have we automatically eliminated the possibility that the HO got the price from Kuke, then turned around to the sub and said, "hey I need this extra work done and Kuke said just deal directly with you, so can you give me a price?"


We're not talking about an electrician adding an outlet while the gc is doing a 1500 sq ft addition. It was a fence, sold by a fence company (kuke) and the sub (installer) doing the work. Seems like the work almost doubled ($7,000 original, $5,000 add on) any sub dumb enough to think that the scope of work doubling and the company is just going to hand that off is a moron.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

My limited experience with non compete clauses has to do with a pool business getting bought and the previous owner signing a non compete. They could only base it on location but what he did was open another pool business in the next county but still marketed in the original county. The new owners case was tossed. From what i've heard a half assed lawyer can tear apart a good lawyers non-compete clause. 

But again I'm not real familiar with them


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

mike d. said:


> I say pay him, chalk it up as a business expnese, and tell him to go F~~~ himself. Karma is a B~~~~. Good Luck.


When I feel inclined to call someone up and tell him to eff off and he's a d.b., I try to remind myself to ask: "What would [fill in the name of someone I respect] do in this situation?" The answer is rarely "Tell him to eff off and that he's a d.b." It's usually more like "Tell him the situation as I see it and ask if he has any information I ought to know." If there's no useful conversation, well I can still have my tantrum.

- Bob


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I agree 100%


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> You're a remodeler. Say you hire a painter, either as a sub or as an employee, and have him do some work. Then you come to a parting of the ways for some reason.
> 
> The guy paints for a living. He can't be denied the right to earn a living doing what he knows, whether that puts him into competition with you or not.
> 
> ...


Only if you wrote a broad non-compete. The issue that we are discussing is the ability of a sub to steal a current customer or one that he has completed previous sub work for or is currently on a project as a sub. If, in his contract, he has agreed not to poach clients, then a non-compete or also called a covenant clause, can be enforced.

With that said, most just use a generic non-compete and most are thrown out, but not on the principle of the agreement, but the lack of details and evidence of cause. That's also key. You must prove cause for the non-compete. You must identify how it will damage your business.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Only if you wrote a broad non-compete. The issue that we are discussing is the ability of a sub to steal a current customer or one that he has completed previous sub work for or is currently on a project as a sub. If, in his contract, he has agreed not to poach clients, then a non-compete or also called a covenant clause, can be enforced.
> 
> With that said, most just use a generic non-compete and most are thrown out, but not on the principle of the agreement, but the lack of details and evidence of cause. That's also key. You must prove cause for the non-compete. You must identify how it will damage your business.


is this personal experience your writing about, or stuff you heard at the bar?
i have never seen someone with a non compete clause win in the construction business.

thru personal experience(MI. based family business) its just not enforceable.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

Once a client has paid you for your services, they owe you nothing,
If he then contacts one of your subs, Your gonna sue him, thats a joke.
Most subs have there info on the side of their trucks, do you make them cover it up on the job?
your discussion only has merit if the sub solicited his services on the GC's dime.
If its true that the GC gave this sub 80 g's of work, I dont think he is that stupid to screw with that, do you honestly think he did? 
Would you have?

But, after the work was done and paid by the GC, what if, the HO called the Sub, for additional work a month later, 
Obviously the HO didn't want the original GC, or else he would of called him.

I dont understand why professionals on this board are so willing to condemn the Sub, or HO.

Maybe the GC farted and the HO dont like his smell, i dont know.
but I will not start calling everyone a hack, and saying the HO is scum, and the sub should go out of business.

Just not that professional for me, but then again what do I know?


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

brunothedog said:


> Most subs have there info on the side of their trucks, do you make them cover it up on the job?


Actually it's common here. This is why I drive an unlettered truck.

If TNT subbed me for electrical (which he does sometimes) and I showed up in a truck that showed the ho that I am also a GC, it would only confuse the client and be quite disrespectful to boot.

Most clients don't understand how any of this contracting works nor should they have to understand it. As far as they know, I am an employee of TNT on that job.

If they care to study the permit and notice that the GC hired subcontractors, (which is what a "contractor" does) and they ask, the GC can explain it anyway he/she feels appropriate.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> how does it work out when the GC gets fired?


You still don't do the job unless you're a douche bag.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> You still don't do the job unless you're a douche bag.


why? I have been called by Engineers and Architects to clean up other peoples jobs, I am currently finishing up one now.
HERE.

I have put my hands other another 5 jobs in the last few yrs.
Just because some one has a GC license, doesn't mean they merit it.
I respect only those who merit it,


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> why? I have been called by Engineers and Architects to clean up other peoples jobs, I am currently finishing up one now.
> HERE.
> 
> I have put my hands other another 5 jobs in the last few yrs.
> ...


If you weren't on the job prior to the GC being fired then it's no big deal but that is not what this thread is about. 

The HO never would have known that this sub did fences without Kuke being involved, even if the HO called 2 weeks after and said I want you to bid a fence the sub should have declined since it was kukes customer.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Douche bags who do crap like this go through many company names, or they move a lot because once people figure it out they can't get work. Once they run out of towns they move to other states or counties where they can start over with their douche bag ways.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

I dont agree with you, free enterprise means I shop where I want, no strings attached.

If I want to do business with you, so be it, if I decide not to do business with you anymore,
who are you to get all upset.
I give work to who I want, when I want, no strings attached


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

This is why good subcontractors are hard to find.

Once you bite the hand that feeds you won't get fed anymore.


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## Imakenice (Jul 9, 2013)

brunothedog said:


> I dont agree with you, free enterprise means I shop where I want, no strings attached.
> 
> If I want to do business with you, so be it, if I decide not to do business with you anymore,
> who are you to get all upset.
> I give work to who I want, when I want, no strings attached




Are you joking?

someone gives you a good amount of business every year, they have you doing a decent sized fence job, and instead of working with a decent contractor and building a business relationship, you make a deal with the HO and cut the contractor out... without whom you would not have been there building the fence in the first place?

This is like ethics 101, how not to be a sleazebag...its one thing to decide not to do business with someone, but when you do it at the moment you have a chance to cut out the person who gave you the work for a few more bucks, then you should be ashamed of yourself and your failure as an ethical businessman.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Imakenice said:


> Are you joking?
> 
> someone gives you a good amount of business every year, they have you doing a decent sized fence job, and instead of working with a decent contractor and building a business relationship, you make a deal with the HO and cut the contractor out... without whom you would not have been there building the fence in the first place?
> 
> This is like ethics 101, how not to be a sleazebag...its one thing to decide not to do business with someone, but when you do it at the moment you have a chance to cut out the person who gave you the work for a few more bucks, then you should be ashamed of yourself and your failure as an ethical businessman.


Well said, well said.


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## BThomas (Apr 21, 2013)

I see the point everyone is trying to make but there is an unanswered question.
Did the sub sell the HO additional fence or just install fence that the HO purchased from another fence co.?
If this is the case it is fine to install for the HO as it is not in conflict with the first fence salesperson.
I used to sub kitchen installs to several cabinet companies that were in competition with each other. I and they had no issue with me installing for the other companies. I did not recommend any one company over another and that all paid me different install rates.
We are all ASSUMEing information we do not have.
Bill T


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

brunothedog said:


> is this personal experience your writing about, or stuff you heard at the bar?
> i have never seen someone with a non compete clause win in the construction business.
> 
> thru personal experience(MI. based family business) its just not enforceable.


Yes personal experience. And the only reason they are not enforceable is the reasons I listed. 

And again, every state handles them differently. But written correctly they are enforceable.

Did you take it to court? What was the ruling?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Imakenice said:


> Are you joking?
> 
> someone gives you a good amount of business every year, they have you doing a decent sized fence job, and instead of working with a decent contractor and building a business relationship, you make a deal with the HO and cut the contractor out... without whom you would not have been there building the fence in the first place?
> 
> This is like ethics 101, how not to be a sleazebag...its one thing to decide not to do business with someone, but when you do it at the moment you have a chance to cut out the person who gave you the work for a few more bucks, then you should be ashamed of yourself and your failure as an ethical businessman.


No this is just the way Bruno is. He will take the unpopular aside everytime to provoke something.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> No this is just the way Bruno is. He will take the unpopular aside everytime to provoke something.


So is that your second account?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> So is that your second account?


Occasionally a C.T. comment makes me laugh out loud.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> So is that your second account?


I thought it was you? Weird.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

BamBamm5144 said:


> This is why good subcontractors are hard to find.


On the assumption he is a good contractor



> No this is just the way Bruno is. He will take the unpopular aside everytime to provoke something.


Since _*we know*_ good contractors are hard to find, I dont take sides.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't see how the sub can put up any defense. I don't see how, with the somewhat limited information, anyone could defend the sub.

Simple. The sub has done $80k in work for the GC this year. On face, that sound like a reasonably sound relationship. One that would merit some respect and communication with the GC in the situation described in the OP.

So the sub makes a deal with the HO and makes no additional contact to the GC about the additional work?

The sub places NO value with the relationship to the GC.

Pay the man and write off the relationship. While any sub makes the GC a margin, the contract behind the job should carry an intrinsic value that is the establishment of a customer base. A sub who diminishes that value is not one you want to have around.


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## Mtgroup (Dec 22, 2013)

I would Take Your Time with the contract and people...
Been there... dont hurry into situations.. think it through carefully


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Take him on a fishing trip and bring some 8" semi's with ya :whistling


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## BThomas (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm still waiting for KUKE to reply as to where the fence was purchased. We only know , from what KUKE said, that the fence was installed by the sub.
"Guy called that day to inquire about more fence. I went out there and gave him his quote. Never heard back from the guy until today when he called and said his gate isn't working. Went out there to fix it. I looked and seen the part that i quoted was finished. I inquired with the customer on who did the fence and he said the guy that installed it did all of it. I said thank you very much."

Perhaps the HO purchased fence from another supplier, was happy with the first install, and asked the sub to install fence purchased from another source. This,in my opinion, would be Ok.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> So is that your second account?


I'm not sure why he'd need a second account to do that... He does that just fine on his primary. Unless of course he needs a new user name since no one reads his ramblings... That could be it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

RobertCDF said:


> I'm not sure why he'd need a second account to do that... He does that just fine on his primary. Unless of course he needs a new user name since no one reads his ramblings... That could be it.


Always puts a smile my face when my trolls come by. I never give you a second thought until then.

The difference between me and Bruno is I actually believe everything that I say. I don't just take the opposing view. Many times my view is mirrored by others on the thread I am just a whole lot more persistent in keeping guys like you telling the truth and staying in line.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I have a question, how does a fence installation company not install fences


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Same way a 'construction" company doesn' t own a hammer.....subs, subs, subs. Or they have more work than they can handle in house and sub some (10%, 30%, 75%) out. either way it's legit, it's normal and it doesn't matter at all. the only thing that matters is that the sub took work away from the person that originally brought him on them job without informing that person that he was going to do it. Scum baggy if the Contractor/sub relationship was good, something else if it wasn't


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

The H/O is a big play in this [the wedge] Best I can read the sub has lost 80k plus a year from the fencing contractor . The H/O stirred the pot on this ,and the fencing contractor may have lost a good sub over it !


It's a war out there boys! IT'S A WAR! Feel for me.. I get cut in half on a daily basis . And I'm still charging the same prices from 10 years ago !!!!!!!!!!


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I agree, in some markets it's war. All's fair in love and war right...and business. I would never do that to someone that brought me on a job and I would be pissed if someone did it to me...but we don't have all the info and every situation is different. I'm not ready to lynch the sub....yet


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

I have been deleted, again


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

brunothedog said:


> I have been deleted, again


You can curse me in a pm If you like!:laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Always puts a smile my face when my trolls come by. I never give you a second thought until then.
> 
> The difference between me and Bruno is I actually believe everything that I say. I don't just take the opposing view. Many times my view is mirrored by others on the thread I am just a whole lot more persistent in keeping guys like you telling the truth and staying in line.


:laughing:

Someone please change his username to Aunt Sally.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

brunothedog said:


> I have been deleted, again


That's probably a fairly good indication of something.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

jlsconstruction said:


> I have a question, how does a fence installation company not install fences


Same way ido ccomposition roofs :thumbsup:

We had us a hail storm here in 09, my guys and I did about a dozen roofs. We had another hail storm this year, I didn't take any roofs except for existing clients and some business contacts, but about 20 roofs. My guys did the two U panel roofs, one snap lock and one commercial R panel. I was 100% upfront with the shingle folks. I don't do shingles. I have an old boy that I sub it to. I just measure, order and inspect flashings, dry in and completion. Of course I'm insured well, and they know I will want a quality job and be present for the inspection (mine and the inspectors in the city) and will not let little Johnny get a nail in his foot.

They could give two chits as long as i do it for the insurance money. The few that didn't pay my price per square price u fought with on the phone and got the extra money. 

We still do the siding and windows, but I can't make money with my carpenters doing shingles , and the need for shingles is still there.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

Kent Whitten said:


> That's probably a fairly good indication of something.


of?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

brunothedog said:


> of?


Another pointless comment


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Someone please change his username to Aunt Sally.


Smiling! I love you guys. More me time!


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