# Condo, excessive water pressure



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

I have requested my water company inspect the main water turn off valve for my condominium building for excessive water pressure. 

I'm asking if it's a big deal for the water company to have to either replace the condo's water turn off valve or insert a flow restrictor just beyond the main turn off valve. Is it a major digging out operation for them? Major interruption of water to the rest of the condos? They all work from one main shut off valve.

I recently noticed a huge rush in faucet pressure and general increase in noise from other condos when they used their showers, toilets. Around this time, a copper pipe sprung a pinhole leak requiring major drywall repair.

I attribute this to the increased water pressure. Could I be right? 
Could it possibly be a big deal for the water company to have to repair the shut off valve or put a water restrictive connection there? I'm wondering if it's even worth bothering pursuing, maybe so do they. Also, I'm a tenent, not an owner. I've contacted my HOA. No reply.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

What's the pressure? Under 80 lbs is considered acceptable. Higher, you'd want a pressure reducing valve, especially if you have old plumbing/fixtures.

A few years back, a local water company here jacked their pressure up rather than invest in booster pumps, and a lot of people suddenly had leak problems. It took a year or two and a couple of lawsuits for the company to agree to provide reducing valves for those who wanted them--to be installed on their own dime.


----------



## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

How tall is the building ?, is the pressure the same on the ground floor the same as the top floor, Have you taken reading ?. Many folks are unaware that multi story building have lift stations that increase pressure.


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

sunkist said:


> How tall is the building ?, is the pressure the same on the ground floor the same as the top floor, Have you taken reading ?. Many folks are unaware that multi story building have lift stations that increase pressure.


Buildings over five stories are usually piped from the top down.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

The water company said they can ony send out someone to check the pressure at the nearest fire hydrant to my condo building and inform me of the water pressure there. They also said that high water pressure is usually a matter of the condos plumbing. However, I'd probably have to have someone tear into the drywall to find the main input into my condo, then put a pressure reducer there. That's not likely to happen due to cost. From reading around the net, the inside of that 40+ year old copper pipe was probably corroded from our hard water.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Caslon said:


> They also said that high water pressure is usually a matter of the condos plumbing.


Wow, they must have discovered a new rule of physics. Your plumbing can affect available flow volume; ain't no way it's going to create pressure they aren't providing.


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Are there new buildings around? They may have jacked up the pressure. My hot water tank developed a T&P leak. After a while I figured out the pressure must be too high (bought a meter since). The city came out and checked and said yep, 100lbs, right where it should be! 

There's a new development down the road so I'm guessing that had something to do with it. I put in a PR valve and an expansion tank.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Email quote from the water company (not all of it).

"Water pressure varies in different parts of the City depending upon location and demand. According to the California Plumbing Code, you are required to have a water pressure regulator on your property if the pressure in your area is more than 80 pounds per square inch (psi). Regulators are the responsibility of the property owner. Most professional plumbers can fix or install regulators".

"The most common cause of a sudden increase in water pressure is a faulty regulator. The regulator may need to be adjusted or replaced. You may want to contact a plumbing professional to inspect the regulator".

"If you experience a water pressure problem, you can request the water pressure in your area be checked by calling (619) 515-3525. A City Water Operations crew member will test the water pressure at the nearest fire hydrant to your home, and the findings will be reported back to you. Water pressure normally fluctuates +/- 10 psi. If the water pressure in your neighborhood is found to be normal, then the water pressure problem is most likely due to a problem with the plumbing system on your property".

This morning I recieved another email from them.

"Hello Customer,
Thank you for your recent email. I have notified the Emergency Repairs Department. A unit will investigate your concerns". 

I'm not sure what that's going to entail. I'm glad they emailed replied that.
Also, I'm unfamiliar just where the input pipe is for my condo. It's not anywhere obvious that I can see. I'll ask my plumber who's coming back after the drywall damage is repaired to put the toilet tank back on (damage behind it). 

The thing is, I swear I've also noticed increased water sounds from tenents above me when they use their showers or toilets. Unit was built in 1972.


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

The water shut off valve outside would be a starting point.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

RangoWA said:


> The water shut off valve outside would be a starting point.


I'm hoping they'll check that, but the first email said all they would do is check the nearest fire hydrant if I request it and report back the findings.

Their most recent email reply is a bit more encouraging.

I'll update this forum as it happens. 

Thanks.

P.S. The reason I suspect the main turn off valve is because the water pressure went back to normal when it was shut off for some other tenent, then sure enough, after the latest main valve turn off and back on, the high water pressure came back.


----------



## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

What if the Fire Dept found insufficient pressure on your street while doing annual inspections ?

What would you recommend short term ?


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

We Fix Houses said:


> What if the Fire Dept found insufficient pressure on your street while doing annual inspections ?
> 
> What would you recommend short term ?


Huh? :confused1:


----------



## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

We Fix Houses said:


> What if the Fire Dept found insufficient pressure on your street while doing annual inspections ?
> 
> What would you recommend short term ?


Please explain this question


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

RangoWA said:


> The water shut off valve outside would be a starting point.


I'm dealing with the water company about this issue because I don't see any location where a pressure regulator could be installed for my condo without tearing into the drywall.

I'm still awaiting the water company to follow up their email to me about coming out and accessing the situation at the main turn off valve. Lawsuits have been filed because water companies refuse to put a pressure regulator installed just past the main turn off valve (it would cost them too much?), so they tell people to have a pressure regulator installed at their unit. With me, that's not feasible without cutting into drywall to access the main water pipe into my unit ($$$). Even then, it might not be do-able if it's hard to get at.


----------



## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Why don't you get a pressure valve and a NPTxGHT adaptor first,hook it to the hose bib either outside or at your clothes washer and figure out what your pressure is before you run off tilting at windmills too much.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Why don't you get a pressure valve and a NPTxGHT adaptor first,hook it to the hose bib either outside or at your clothes washer and figure out what your pressure is before you run off tilting at windmills too much.


Outside is out of the question, nothing there. Are you suggesting that most condo main entry water pipes are usually located at the washing machine stop area? Or the water heater area maybe?


----------



## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

No, I'm suggesting that you figure out what the water pressure in you condo is before you presume that it is excessive.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Anti-wingnut said:


> No, I'm suggesting that you figure out what the water pressure in you condo is before you presume that it is excessive.



Well said. Thanks. If I don't hear from the water company, I'll buy a water pressure gauge to test on my patio faucet. I had a cheapo one, once.

BTW, it was a pinhole leak on a horizontal section of pipe. I read that's where most copper pipe pinholes occur.

I believe it now, water is the ultimate solvent, breaks down copper over time.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Why don't you get a pressure valve and a NPTxGHT adaptor first,hook it to the hose bib either outside or at your clothes washer and figure out what your pressure is before you run off tilting at windmills too much.




Ditto 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I've never seen a condo unit that didn't have its own individual water shutoff. Then again, you are in California.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

I've discussed this among other owners. It might come down to the water company vs. an HOA. ("After our turn off valve, it's up to you bub...HOA") I'm just remarking that soon, every owner here could get a notification that flow restrictors need to be installed at their water point of entry. Gee, that sounds like fun. I can't even figure out where that entry point is.


----------



## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

HOA have the blue prints or "as Builts" regarding water lines?

Any yahoo can locate a working water line with the right equipment...

Get the city blue prints for the the water service....

Call "One Call" for a locate..

Does every Condo have a separate water meter???? Add a temporary/emergency pressure regulator on the Home owners side of every meter/service

Contact all neighbors with a flood of warning notices handed out and posted all over the neighborhood

Call the neighborhood reporters and local reporters, paper and TV and internet

Don't pay the water bill for a few months...they'll find the shut off then...


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Caslon said:


> RangoWA said:
> 
> 
> > when I replaced it and the T&P valve dripped. Went just over 150psi.
> ...


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

install a manhole on line coming into condo, put in a common PRV that controls pressure for all units at once.


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

attorneys....you know why they all golf on wednesday, don't you? they put their little minds together to see how long they can keep a case going, both sides pissed. they high 5 each other at the 19th hole.

heard the expression, "sueing city hall"? there's a reason that came about. doesn't work well most of the time.

by the time it gets to court, you'd have half your money spent that you could just fix it yourself.


----------



## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

The Lawyer thing was more a Get a lawyer to write a letter to city Water Department/ that they have a preexisting condition that places them at fault for many claims.....

An ounce of prevention is much cheaper then tons of Demo and remodeling

I missed the OPers status as a Tenant, A rental and a HOA? He's renting a Condo-ed apartment? A Condoed building that aren't all owned by the same landlord?

I'd make sure your insurance covers you when you KNOW there is an issue after so many days. I. E. YOU failed to "take" reasonable action....

Turning the temperature setting down on the hot water heater would lower a little the risk it will burst catastrophically:whistling...

Home owner are REQUIRED to install pressure regulators if W.P. is over 80 PSI at any time in day, maintained at their expense... S.D. W.D. web site.

Source for local design pressure:

To find the normal pressure range for your area, please contact the Geographic Information Systems (GIS) Section by sending an email to [email protected] or calling (619) 527-7482

Most likely you've/the Condo, has a Failed/ incorrectly adjusted pressure regulator now,

As the huge grade changes in the hills of San Diego would require for water flow without thousands of extra city owned/maintained plumbing devices many areas with high pressure service mains at the low elevations of the water main loops...


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

I find it hard to believe they would run individual lines for each unit. 

My guess is there is one mainline into structure and manifolded from there. 

Find that line, and PRV the whole property with one unit.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

dayexco said:


> I find it hard to believe they would run individual lines for each unit.


Maybe not out on the left coast, but around here I've never seen a manifold setup. Separate run (and meter) from the street for each unit.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

I just bought another water pressure gauge that reads past 100 psi. This one reads the water pressure at about 125 psi.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

I believe I've figured this out. The water company said they could provide me with the water pressure from the nearest hydrant to my condo building's shut off/on valve. It's often very high (leading up to it) for fire fighting, 180 psi. That 180 psi lead in goes to our main shut off valve. That shut off valve should reduce the pressure past that point. I'm saying that that shut off valve is faulty now and allowing much more pressure to our main water feed 

My mission is to now get some action from our property management company or the HOA to get the damn water company out here. 

Damn, I got pissed off trying to get anywhere with the water company.
No follow up from them. If it's not a major bursting pipe before your condo building, it's not top priority with them. It seems like that.

Any plumbers out there been around this type repair by the water company? Is it a big deal replacing the main shut off valve? The water will probably have to be off more than the usual 2 hours ( for water heater replacement, leak repairs, etc). They'll also have to shut off the flow at the nearest shut off leading up to ours. Sounds involved. It's no wonder they took my emails sent to them lightly, lol!


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

The main valve would open and close the supply. Around here they are at the meter. Everything beyond that is on the property owner, that would include any pressure reducing valves. It could be different there but I think you guys need a plumber and the water co. knows it.


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

Not a matter of replacing main shut off valve. The pressure needs to be controlled after that point. 

You might throw it at them that it's their responsibility to provide you with an acceptable, and workable operating pressure. 

Good luck with that. 

Any chance you know how big the line serving the property is? 

I could come up with a "ballpark " number what remediation costs might be. 

Good luck


----------



## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Caslon: If you are in San Diego, The PR valve is on YOU,

Many California homes have the garden hoses hooked up BEFORE the Pressure Regulator..... too Max the irrigation flow.... 

And/ or the garden bib is on a no sanitary sewer charge separate from Unit's water meter circuit for water that won't end up needing sanitary treatment in a sewage plant....

Install your gauge on the cloths washer bib, and report back, 
Run the sink faucet a little, a worn seat on an existing P.R. would show lower steady pressure at low flows greater than the leakage through the damaged/worn seat....
The water stop valve and the most likely failed existing PR device should be in the same area AND accessible for use and repair.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Caslon: If you are in San Diego, The PR valve is on YOU,
> 
> Many California homes have the garden hoses hooked up BEFORE the Pressure Regulator..... too Max the irrigation flow....


Back in 1972 when this building was constructed, I don't believe they had the patio faucet hooked up before the PR. I may do as you propose, but I can tell just by the sheer stream of water coming out of the bathtub spigot that the pressure is probably the same as the patio faucet.

My agent has sent an email to our property manager asking that this matter be looked into. That property manager is the same one who had workers come out and rip out the drywall and repair it all. She MUST know somethings up. I sent her the same picture of the pressure gauge reading that I posted above.

Also, my bathroom sinks cold water faucet abruptly stops water flowing if I turn the handle too far open which I attribute to the high water pressure. It was working fine before all this water pressure issue started. I suppose I could partially close the turn off stop valve for it.

All I can do now is wait. I'll update this thread as it occurs. It might be awhile. Meanwhile, thanks to all for the patience replying to my posts.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

I also feel noobish not understanding those saying the water company is only responsible up to the complex. In 1972, the development company paid for the flow restrictor cost (past the main shut off by the city) as part of their development cost. I was slow to get that. Now I get that.

The HOA will probably be informing all owners of this building that a new restrictor has to be installed at the main shut off. Which is not so simple as plumbers shutting off our water for the usual 2 hour window for water heater replacements,etc. Some digging is gonna have to be done.

Might it be involved enough a repair to raise an owners monthly HOA fees? I bet ya it might.


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

If it does have a PR valve then it has failed and needs replacing. The water company is tasked with providing everyone with water. I doubt there are nefarious reasons why the pressure is what it is. It's probably what they have to do. I don't know why it would take longer than a few hours to replace the valve once you have access. I'd also make sure there's an easy and quick way to shut off the supply. Like a ball valve in a common area with a sign on it.


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

RangoWA said:


> If it does have a PR valve then it has failed and needs replacing. The water company is tasked with...


 

Our main flow off the street water pressure restrictor obviously needs replacing (my guess). The original flow restrictor was most likely included as part of the over all cost of this project in 1972. A few hours you say? To replace it? No backhoe needed?


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

A backhoe? I hope not. It's a pressure reducer, the flow would be the valves in the home. Someone needs to call a plumber.


----------



## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

1972 the meter was pre-wireless.... the Water meter should be where it could have been directly read and replaced.... the PRESSURE REGULATOR (not restrictor, a restrictor would allow pressure to return to supply pressure during low flow periods):thumbsup:

Only the dumbest/cheesiest plumber would have buried a P. Regulator....

There is no mechanical room with the gas, water and electrical meters?

Do the Condos have separate water meters??????

If not and the HOA monthly fees include water service?????

Then the PR maintenance/repair or needed install is ON THEM, 

If YOU pay a water bill to San Diego, YOU must install, repair. replace the Pressure regulator... And at some point in time, your Condo insurance will NOT cover damage caused by a long known but ignored issue.... Proof being your posts here. 

When the new PR valve is installed/repaired and working correctly., Hired a licensed plumber to inspect all your fixtures & Pipe for over pressure damage.

DayExco below: Can't imagine 45 years with out a working Pressure Regulator......

HOA is sounding grossly incompetent from this angle....


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

best case/cost scenario...."if"....there is a common main line/feed valve to the property that handles ALL the units...dig down on house side of service line valve...expose main for about 10', get grades ready to set manhole....prefab all of your piping (PRV, etc.) on top of the ground, have ready.

notify all tenants that water will be down for "x" hours...have city shut down service line valve...cut in your PRV assembly, test, turn service line back on.

in reality, this shouldn't take any more than 2 hours. plumbing is all done, set your manhole structure on top of it, backfill.

nothing to this silly game.


----------

