# Got a job to bid



## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

A GC that we work for gave us a set of grading plans for an addition that he has to bid. It is some doctor that has a 2,500 sq.ft. house. The addition is going to be another 5,000 sq.ft. with an elevator. They hired an engineer to draw up "grading plans". I've never in my life heard of someone hiring an engineer for a house. It isn't like it is rocket science. That is all I need, some yahoo to tell me how to grade around a house. It comes complete with retaining walls, catch basins and storm drains. Good thing these people have money, because it isn't going to be cheap. Oh yeah, did I mention that it is all *rock*. :whistling


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## backhoe1 (Mar 30, 2007)

I've spent quite a bit of time arguing with different engineers that have drawn plans that require water to literally run uphill or over a long flat area. Usually just do it their way if they insist and charge plenty when they finally ask for suggestions or solutions


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

Rino, this is probably the best thing to happen to you in a while. 

You dont have to make any decisions here. Just do what the plan says and its all on the engineer. 

Then if it dont work, and the plan was wrong, you get to make paid decisions for changes you will also get paid for.

Besides, now theres no guess work for the cut and fill.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Sounds like it could be a nice little job.

Bump your numbers up a bit for the extra pain in the rear, and keep smiling! 

A job with these kinds of specs usually equates into a few 1/2 days standing around while those guys figure out that the way you intended to do it really was the proper approach. :no:

I have learned the hard way....put extra time=$$ on these type jobs so instead of being pissed that you can't work while they do their figuring....you should walk around with them and be polite and make suggestions. By the end of the "meeting" they are thanking you for being so helpful and cooperative. Then go do what you planned on doing from the start.


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## coreylkh (Nov 24, 2007)

tgeb said:


> Sounds like it could be a nice little job.
> 
> Bump your numbers up a bit for the extra pain in the rear, and keep smiling!
> 
> ...


I agree. The more supportive to the owner and their rep that you are the more they trust you. When there are necessary change orders due to engineering errors you are more likely to get it approved than if you were to just do it according to plan. If it doesn't work, don't say anything until you get your contract, of course....but then become their consultant. Owners' love this - especially if they're building a McMansion. Business people with money building homes like other business people that think they're saving them money. I finished an 11,000 sf *BASEMENT* (36,000 sf) home for a financial guru and this is not his main residence. Now get this....the basement was already 90% dug. The guy didn't trust the excavator and thought that he was being taken so it went out for bid again. I got the contract and the total of our contract...................(drum roll)...............$568,000. Haul off, approx. 3,800 cy. Crazy, I know....but, Owner comfort level............PRICELESS!


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## RILEY PAINTING (Oct 17, 2007)

you lucky lucky boy


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## coreylkh (Nov 24, 2007)

Who?


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

couldn't have been much of a financial guru to pay 568k to finish up a basement. that's pushing $200.00 per cy...whatever the market will bear, i guess.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Well, there are other builders bidding this addition, and we need the work. So, we gotta bid it tight. I'm not worried about the job, it is a piece of cake. I took a quick look at the elevations and there is no place to waste the material on site, so everything is gonna have to be hauled out. Gonna meet with the builder on Monday at the site to check everything out.


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## coreylkh (Nov 24, 2007)

rino, do you guys have problem with frost there? Do you have to rip through it to work in the winter or is it not really an issue?

*[couldn't have been much of a financial guru to pay 568k to finish up a basement. that's pushing $200.00 per cy...whatever the market will bear, i guess.]*

The cost of the finished house topped out at just over $66 million. He almost doubled the budget but opted for changes every time a new phase came up. I don't think he quite realized that the term "change order" really means "bend over." Anyways, quite a monstrosity for a young family of 4.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

coreylkh said:


> The cost of the finished house topped out at just over $66 million. He almost doubled the budget but opted for changes every time a new phase came up. I don't think he quite realized that the term "change order" really means "bend over." Anyways, quite a monstrosity for a young family of 4.


maybe that's the reason we've been in business 27 yrs...and over 90% of our work is repeat or referred...i feel it's VERY unethical to "bend someone over" because of an oversight, or an error in the plans. i don't KY my customers, just as i wouldn't want them doing it to me. should a situation arise where a change order is necessitated, i expect to be compensated fairly for my lost time, exchange of job material, etc. etc.....but to to hold a customer hostage is just wrong in my opinion. there are those that will say the PIA customers deserve it, maybe so.....i elect not solicit work from that clientle. when i leave a customer's jobsite, it's with the intent that she/he, and i, feel they got the best bang for the buck, that i made a fair profit on the job, and when the next job comes along, there will be no question as to who they call for the next one.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

Rino,

What state is this in? I'm hoping you're close to me...I'd love to take all that fill


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

rino1494 said:


> It isn't like it is rocket science. :whistling


:laughing: that is why these forums are full of contractors who are asking questions about the simplest of tasks. 
One of the most serious problems you can have happen to your home is to have incorrect or pour grading...The fact that an engineer has at least specified retaining walls and a catch basin gives the home longivity. 
And you are tight it is not rocket science, it is alot of other sciences.


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

coreylkh said:


> I don't think he quite realized that the term "change order" really means "bend over."


A change order is not a permit to print money. The customer has the right to sign it or not. The customer is in the drivers seat, they can ask for anything they want with the contractors right to be paid for their service.
Change orders are agreed upon prior to work being done just like the contract that was first signed, the contract likely stated change orders will be required for any and all work that is not specified within the contract. And I am sure the contract was signed. So to say the customer is being bent over with out knowing the facts of the contract is just showing how informed you are not?


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## coreylkh (Nov 24, 2007)

> A change order is not a permit to print money. The customer has the right to sign it or not. The customer is in the drivers seat, they can ask for anything they want with the contractors right to be paid for their service.


Thank you, my sentiments exactly. The Owner made field changes and requested that the rep get prices. Nothing unethical there. :shifty:

Dayexco, I'm in a completely different market than you so I guess we can't really compare. Most everything I bid is public so the only repeat customers I have are the GC's that I've worked for before and we were the lowest bid. They couldn't care less about work ethic, only bottom dollar. Change orders to them are a part of the project (usually called "unforseen conditions") and they make money on them too. :thumbsup:


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Rhino- I am shocked this is the first time you had a grading plan for a residential job. From here on out every job gets a grading plan. My LA does the plan an the engineer stamps it.

Makes it alot easier to get accurate bids on excavation.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Rhino- I am shocked this is the first time you had a grading plan for a residential job. From here on out every job gets a grading plan. My LA does the plan an the engineer stamps it.
> 
> Makes it alot easier to get accurate bids on excavation.


Money doesn't grow on trees around here. I live in a very blue collar area. I live in the heart of the coal region of PA. My ancestors grew up in the mines and logging in the woods. The average home that I do is around $200-$300K. We do some $500-$800K homes, but if we relied on just them, we would be broke. My point is, it just isn't cost effective to hire a engineering company to survey and design a grading plan for a house. The average customer has just enough money to build a house with some nice upgrades, but that is it. There usually isn't much room for extras.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

woodmagman said:


> :laughing: that is why these forums are full of contractors who are asking questions about the simplest of tasks.
> One of the most serious problems you can have happen to your home is to have incorrect or pour grading...The fact that an engineer has at least specified retaining walls and a catch basin gives the home longivity.
> And you are tight it is not rocket science, it is alot of other sciences.



Call me ignorant or cocky, but I don't need a engineer to tell me how to grade a site or control the water runoff. I've done this long enough and have seen enough to know what has to be done. I know what the rock is like, but I just hammered out a foundation a couple hundred yards up the road in the same development. The problem that I am facing is, I know what has to be done, because I have done it and that is going to inflate my bid. With the other contractors, they will bid cheap and charge extra for unforeseen conditions. :gunsmilie:


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

dayexco said:


> maybe that's the reason we've been in business 27 yrs...and over 90% of our work is repeat or referred...i feel it's VERY unethical to "bend someone over" because of an oversight, or an error in the plans. i don't KY my customers, just as i wouldn't want them doing it to me. should a situation arise where a change order is necessitated, i expect to be compensated fairly for my lost time, exchange of job material, etc. etc.....but to to hold a customer hostage is just wrong in my opinion. there are those that will say the PIA customers deserve it, maybe so.....i elect not solicit work from that clientle. when i leave a customer's jobsite, it's with the intent that she/he, and i, feel they got the best bang for the buck, that i made a fair profit on the job, and when the next job comes along, there will be no question as to who they call for the next one.



You are correct sir. You don't make money by "wacking" people. You make money by being honest and fair. It is nice to make that extra couple hundred bucks, but in the long run, it isn't worth it. This past summer, we did a job that I bid. It had a block front and back porch. Well, before I started, the customer changed both porches and decided to make them full basement. This entailed me to dig more, run more pipe for footer drain and radon and a few extra ton of stone for under the slab. I saved a little extra on the job, by hauling out less stumps then I figured. So, I told the homeowner not to worry about it. It was a even exchange. He was happy and when we were all done, he said that we did a great job and he would definitely recommend us to everybody.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

appears the sun times needs to update their info.


http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/classifieds/homes/699885,3_7_EL16_NOTES_S1.article


The Top 10 Most Expensive Homes in Chicago

December 16, 2007
The Top 10 Most Expensive Homes in Chicago

It may seem that by tradition, the homes fancy enough to meet the exacting demands of luxury buyers are located in the city or on its North Shore. However, Coldwell Banker's survey of the 10 most expensive MLSNI-listed homes in the region reveals that these traditions may be changing.

On average, the listing price of the top 10 properties is $14.5M. However, a $34M Oak Brook estate in construction breaks away from the others at a price more than double that of the next home in the survey. The western suburbs also feature the largest home in the survey, a stunning 20,000 square-foot mansion in Hinsdale for $12.8M. Marketed by Coldwell Banker, it features an underground parking garage, lap pool, wine cellar, elevator and a private courtyard.


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