# Your method for filing receipts?



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

How do you file and keep track of your receipts?

Do you have a folder for each job or do you just file everything by month?

I have been just dumping all COGS receipts plus overhead receipts that are not easily categorized into a folder for the month. Wondering if I should change my ways for the coming year???


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Every job has a folder. For larger jobs I have a receipt folder and a contract docs/bid docs folder. 

Vendor's have a file folder in our main filing cabinet. Statements and insurance certificates go in there. 

Everything is entered in QuickBooks and tagged to the job. If I need a receipt I search QB first and then go to the appropriate job folder.

Jobs folders and vendor folders get cleared out at the end of the year and put into bankers boxes up in our storage area.


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## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

overanalyze said:


> Every job has a folder. For larger jobs I have a receipt folder and a contract docs/bid docs folder.
> 
> Vendor's have a file folder in our main filing cabinet. Statements and insurance certificates go in there.
> 
> ...


I've been trying to get better at doing it this way, just haven't made myself get there yet.

I get everything into quikbooks monthly, but not job separate.


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

I put them somewhere I'm guaranteed not to be able to find them when I need them. 

Thank God I can print all the ones from Menards whenever I need to make a return.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I was taught early on to do this. When we first set up our company in QB we tried to simplify things too much. A year later I started a new company in QB and was very specific in the items we created. I then re-entered a years worth of data!!! Now it is so quick and easy to enter receipts. Also I can create reports on jobs at anytime and see where we are at. It takes some discipline in the beginning, but turns into second nature.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Each receipt gets at time of purchase :whistling ideally:
*chk#/Transaction#
*Job Number/Name
*Work order# if the job is large and broken down

At time of entry for transaction:
*Journal Account# (Job Materials ect)
** Journal account number indicates it has been entered into accounting system

Filing of physical receipts priority
#1 Order by Date/trans#
#2 Bind all like vendor receipts together.
Large numbers of like receipts get bound by qtr or month
#3 Misc receipts for maintenance, insurance get same order but are bound (filed) by journal account
#4 receipts are kept in file folders by Vendor (large numbers of receipts) or journal account ('journal account' is the category given to the expense by the accountant/accounting system, just in case)

Whole premise of system is to be able to enter into computer and readily find a receipt at any time by job, transaction ect. AND for accountant to be able to easily audit a months expenses without having to sort through piles and piles of receipts at $200/hr.

The computer accounting does all the job tracking ect... so this method works best for me, mileage WILL Vary :thumbup:


Stupid simple really :whistling, hard part is keeping up with ANY system


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I just sort them by date and have each month separated. It's really only so I can check QB for the date and quickly pull the receipt from that month's file. It's not rocket science. When I had to manage a LOT more receipts and invoices I used vendor folders, etc. but I think this system is easier as I have too many invoices.

I don't see the point in separating them into job folders as you can tag them for specific jobs in QB and look up P&L and other reports that way. You're just trying to file the receipts so you can quickly access them when necessary. You're not going to go through the folder with a calculator, that's what QB is for.


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## GovtContractor (Dec 4, 2014)

I agree with overanalyze. Segregate all costs by job. When you grow, you'll even start to segregate by cost codes. Set this all up in the beginning so you won't have to change later. 

The only problem I have with holding receipts for too long before entering, is that the dang paper their printed in nowadays fades too quickly. Then you're left trying to figure out what the heck you bought. I scanned them into Adobe and tossed the originals. Then the bookkeeper had legible copies to keep in the job folder and for data entry.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

EthanB said:


> I just sort them by date and have each month separated. It's really only so I can check QB for the date and quickly pull the receipt from that month's file. It's not rocket science. When I had to manage a LOT more receipts and invoices I used vendor folders, etc. but I think this system is easier as I have too many invoices.
> 
> I don't see the point in separating them into job folders as you can tag them for specific jobs in QB and look up P&L and other reports that way. You're just trying to file the receipts so you can quickly access them when necessary. You're not going to go through the folder with a calculator, that's what QB is for.


This is definitely another good method! 

One reason I like our job folder method is if I have a vendor we use a ton, I can find their receipt in the job folder quicker than if I had all the receipts from that vendor in one file.

For example our credit card has way more receipts than any other vendor.

Ultimately either method is only as good as the organization used to file it.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I dont use quick books but may set it up this winter but i have a question about reciepts. I scan everything into my PC with my scanner because a lot of receipts fade and you can see whats on them but its also handy when im out on the job and i need to pull something up like a previous customers paint color on a paint receipt or check what kind of profile i bought for trim. But is it ok to destroy the original receipts. Tax guy said its fine as long as i have copy of the original receipt. which i do by scanning them but is this true. I been told by 2 people now that its ok to do this.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Seven years is the standard. Some say 10 as it covers most statutes of limitations on building practices.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I think it would be fine BC. When I've been audited we had lots of receipts that were scanned or just screenshotted off the computer. They want proof of where you spent the money, I didn't find them to be fussy about the format. Really, you're making their lives easier with the scans.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

The scan method would certainly save file space. It would also make a redundant backup system more important.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

overanalyze said:


> The scan method would certainly save file space. It would also make a redundant backup system more important.


I had 2 massive filing cabinets full of receipts and now i have one file about 1" thick of random receipts i keep just to check prices of common stuff i bought.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

I generally only do labor only jobs. So all my receipts are for tools or sundries. At the end of the day I empty my pockets into a milk crate. Looking over at it now, and 75% full.

Maybe next year I will get better organized. Right now I can hop online to all my suppliers and print out receipts if I wanted to, so the milk crate is just a hail mary backup.


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## TWhite (Oct 29, 2013)

I bought a ScanSnap scanner and file all receipts by job on my iMac. Very little paper left for me!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)




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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

There are always exceptions to the rules, but we start every month with two folders that hang in a file cabinet.

We put the month number we were in business on each folder. If December was the 60th month since we started our business we enter that number on each folder. Then, one folder is labeled Bank Statement and the 2nd folded is labeled Invoices.

Inside the Bank Statement folder for Month 60 are three things; 1) copy of the bank statement for December, all the receipts for purchases including purchases paid from the checking account, credit card, cash, etc., and a printout generated by my checking account software. The printout is accurate to the penny for the checking account and all the purchases. When you need to retrieve a record it is very simple to find the location of the record in the database. Most months require several folders.

Invoices and contracts are placed in a separate folder because they will always overlap between months. For example, when doing your records from a bank statement there is zero overlapping because your statement begins and ends on a specific date and the numbers can't change. But, jobs always start near the end of a month and will not be finished for several weeks or months. It is impossible to get your invoice totals to match the deposits on your bank statements. Therefore, we put invoices and contracts in folders only when the job is 100% finished and the money is collected, or when we make a ledger (payment) card for our account receivables.

Retrieving invoices from your archives is very easy. All you need to do when entering your sales into a database is enter the Month Number for the folder that contains the record.

At the end of the year, we end up with 12 sets of folders. Each set of folders is for one month. Inside each set of folders is a printout with the exact amounts for deposits and debits. We send our CPA the 12 sets of folders and then we generate one printout for the entire 12 months. It is easier to double-check one month at a time vs. trying to find a mistake in 12 months of records. 

In 42 years I never had one accountant nor government agency ask to see my invoices and I have had major audits several times. I would have no problem showing my invoices, but as I said it would be very burdensome for even an expert to try to get a correlation between the invoices' grand total and deposits. Put another way; if my bank deposits are $50,000 for month 1, $20,000 for month 2, and $30,000 for month 3, the total for my sales in each folder would always be different because I may have received a deposit for a job one month and the balance for that job over a period of several years. Since I run my business with the Cash System (not Accrual System) the total for my company's sales is calculated only from the cash I collect and not from my Invoice Total. It doesn't make sense to pay income tax on money you have not collected and then have to try to get the tax back that you paid after you find out that your customer stiffed you.

Last night, I started making a video that shows how our software and accounting system works. Every system described in this thread is perfect if it works for you and you can find your records when you need them. You will know how well your system works when you get audited or sued. When you have an audit or get sued you will find that time is of the essence and the more organized you are the greater are your chances of winning. Most people dump their records at their accountant's office, pay dearly and rely on their accountant to go through every piece of paper. You can bet that your accountant will not drop everything in his life and worry about your winning as much as you will. You need to have your records organized so your accountant can focus his time on looking for errors and other important things.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

I switched to Neat a while back http://www.neat.com/support/video-tutorials-and-user-guides/

Everything goes right in there, bills, receipts, etc :thumbsup:


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## TWhite (Oct 29, 2013)

I looked at Neat also and settled with the ScanSnap, but the biggest plus for using a digital filing system is that I can find anything in my files in a matter of minutes.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Spencer said:


> How do you file and keep track of your receipts?
> 
> Do you have a folder for each job or do you just file everything by month?
> 
> I have been just dumping all COGS receipts plus overhead receipts that are not easily categorized into a folder for the month. Wondering if I should change my ways for the coming year???


 spencer--- I use a very simple system which has worked great for me for almost 30 years.

go to office max--- buy a copy of the Dome Simplified Weekly Bookkeeping Record- that sits on my desk---- the key is to use it EVERY day

1) when I am out and about and buy something--- I write the job name for it at the top of the receipt and stash it in my daily note book.
2) end of the day--- pull out the receipts---- rarely more than 2-3 and enter them in the Dome book
3) put the receipts in the specific manila job file-- and that's likely the last time I will ever touch that receipt.
4) on sunday mornings--- I phone in the payroll info to the payroll service----and I also write any checks for insurance, shop rent, stuff like that---and then immediately enter that in the Dome book. also enter the payroll stuff for the paychecks I gave out Friday.

that's it----easy peasy

It takes LESS than 2 minutes /day monday through Friday----and under a half hour Sunday( sunday includes the household bills also)

simplicity itself---- however
only 3 employees here---and no plans to ever have more than 5
also---our jobs are 1-3 days typically-we spent 2 weeks on one job in august and that was FOREVER!!!!
with few exceptions---we only run 1 job at a time
on a daily basis I am done with bookkeeping and filing before you would get quickbooks opened on your computer, LOL

there ARE some limitations to this method---- for example, I am curious about how much I spent specifically on copper this year-- so I will need to manually go through all the job files and tally it up----10 minutes work,maybe.

stephen


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## mnld (Jun 4, 2013)

480sparky said:


>


I think the label on that box is kinda redundant....


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Receipts? I just throw them in an envelope for the month and then start a new one each month. I've never once had to pull one back out for any reason.

When I log into Quickbooks, I log into my bank account and all my transactions download right into my bank register. I can have 20+ transactions filed away correctly within a minute or two.

Paychecks - one again Quickbooks. Download the hours from my time clock machine which enters right into Quickbooks. Double check it to make sure the right hours are accounted for along with the right projects and within 3 or so minutes, payroll for 8 guys is complete.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Stephen H said:


> spencer--- I use a very simple system which has worked great for me for almost 30 years.
> 
> go to office max--- buy a copy of the Dome Simplified Weekly Bookkeeping Record- that sits on my desk---- the key is to use it EVERY day
> 
> ...


I'm all about speed. Sounds like what you do is about as fast as it gets.

I have become very fond of quickbooks pro. I am a huge fan of the reports that I am able to run. I helps me know how I am doing and where I am at.

It also keeps all my accounts dialed in down to the penny. This is important to me knowing that my books match the banks, vendors, etc as well as making sure everything is billed that needs to be. 

The downfall is it does take a measure of time to input receipts manually as well as keep all my accounts balanced to the penny. 

What I am doing works for now, but I want to have the best system in place to be able to grow into. If I had 5x the receipts and paperwork I'm not sure what I'm doing would be the best for me.

Thanks for taking the time to post your method. :thumbup:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I use neat also, mostly for tax reasons, it saves a ton of money to have everything sorted at the end of the year when I give it to my accountant. Paper copies go into a folder with the contract for that job, then into a box for the year. Keep them for 10 years then chuck them.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I keep vendor invoices in thier own file, customers alphabetically and QuickBooks connect the 2. If it's a big job I will often keep vendor & sub info in that folder for future reference. 

It's has always worked for me although I question whether or not I should change my approach.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Tom M said:


> I keep vendor invoices in thier own file, customers alphabetically and QuickBooks connect the 2. If it's a big job I will often keep vendor & sub info in that folder for future reference.
> 
> It's has always worked for me although I question whether or not I should change my approach.


I'm thinking of taking this approach in the coming year. I already have a specific folder for each vendor (Example: Lumber Yard). At this point I do a lot of small jobs that would be pointless to have a folder for, those are the receipts I'm not sure how I would handle if I were doing is similar to you. I mean what do you do with five receipts for a job to change a patio door?... 

It would be far easier to find receipts using your method with job folder than what I am currently doing just having a monthly receipt folder.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

If you log invoices & expenses into a database like QuickBooks then assign them to a customer you will always be able to find the an expense.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Spencer said:


> I'm thinking of taking this approach in the coming year. I already have a specific folder for each vendor (Example: Lumber Yard). At this point I do a lot of small jobs that would be pointless to have a folder for, those are the receipts I'm not sure how I would handle if I were doing is similar to you. I mean what do you do with five receipts for a job to change a patio door?...
> 
> It would be far easier to find receipts using your method with job folder than what I am currently doing just having a monthly receipt folder.


Where do you keep the estimate and contract docs for those small jobs? 

I will say the job folders can get pretty cluttered on larger jobs which is why I split the info up into receipts and docs. 

I wonder how much more time the scanning would take. Then I would need to file the scans in my computer too.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Tom M said:


> If you log invoices & expenses into a database like QuickBooks then assign them to a customer you will always be able to find the an expense.


That is what I do and it works great. I assign all my time and receipts/bills to customers. The only reason I am wondering the best way to file them is 1) speed, and 2) recovering them should I be audited.

I was just going through some of the "contributed" reports that are available on quickbooks and there are some very powerful reports when it come to analyzing the time and numbers per job, month, employee, year, etc.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

overanalyze said:


> Where do you keep the estimate and contract docs for those small jobs?


I have a pile of manilla folders on the floor here to my left. They have the customer name and contain that information. More than anything those folders are to keep my memory refreshed as a lot of jobs can go months between estimate and beginning of work.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Neat scan, entered under job in QB, filed in envelope under general category (materials, gas...).


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My lumberyard keeps them filed for me. My credit card company also has them on file. Didn't think there was any reason to keep paper receipts in these digital days. I don't and won't anymore. Hell I can even go on to my pro rewards account at HD and find all my spending going back multiple years, complete with the project name. Paper receipts are obsolete .

Every dime I spend gets matched to my quick books as well. As a matter of fact I can download my bank records directly into quick books and it all goes to my bookkeeper, she matches and categorizes everything.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> My lumberyard keeps them filed for me. My credit card company also has them on file. Didn't think there was any reason to keep paper receipts in these digital days. I don't and won't anymore. Hell I can even go on to my pro rewards account at HD and find all my spending going back multiple years, complete with the project name. Paper receipts are obsolete .


The IRS wants receipts not cc statements.


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## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

My yard does the same thing.

I have sub-accounts under my general for each client. 

All charges go under the clients sub-account on my account, then I can look up all transactions for that client for up to 5 years I think.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> The IRS wants receipts not cc statements.


Did you not read. If I get audited I can print them from my lumberyard website, a cc statement works fine with the IRS anyway as long as it's been catorgorized in bookkeeping software. Why wouldn't it?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Did you not read. If I get audited I can print them from my lumberyard website, a cc statement works fine with the IRS anyway as long as it's been catorgorized in bookkeeping software. Why wouldn't it?


Statements are not itemized just totals. I'm just telling you what everyone has ever told me.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> Did you not read. If I get audited I can print them from my lumberyard website, a cc statement works fine with the IRS anyway as long as it's been catorgorized in bookkeeping software. Why wouldn't it?


It won't always be sufficient unless they can actually see what was purchased. Just because a purchase was made at HD doesn't mean it was work related. For all they know you just bought $2k worth of soda.

Will your yard email you pdf's of the receipts? Mine does and it's awesome. I still keep the monthly paper statement because it doesn't really add up to that much extra space but I can search my email and have the pdf in no time.

You can actually call the IRS and double check that you're doing it the right way. I spoke to a field agent in my local area once when I was preparing for an audit and they were actually really helpful. You might not want to give them any of your contact info though. I doubt the local agents trigger audits anyway.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EthanB said:


> It won't always be sufficient unless they can actually see what was purchased. Just because a purchase was made at HD doesn't mean it was work related. For all they know you just bought $2k worth of soda.
> 
> Will your yard email you pdf's of the receipts? Mine does and it's awesome. I still keep the monthly paper statement because it doesn't really add up to that much extra space but I can search my email and have the pdf in no time.


But again if has the job name and number on my HD pro account.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Does anyone here even do enough sales for the IRS to bother with us?

I play by the rules but I doubt it they'll ever really worry about me.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

EthanB said:


> I just sort them by date and have each month separated. It's really only so I can check QB for the date and quickly pull the receipt from that month's file. It's not rocket science. When I had to manage a LOT more receipts and invoices I used vendor folders, etc. but I think this system is easier as I have too many invoices.
> 
> I don't see the point in separating them into job folders as you can tag them for specific jobs in QB and look up P&L and other reports that way. You're just trying to file the receipts so you can quickly access them when necessary. You're not going to go through the folder with a calculator, that's what QB is for.


Exactly how I do it.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

66 Shelby said:


> IMO, the small jobs are the best reason to have a folder for each one. I have a manilla folder for every job I do, no matter how small. I make general notes on the outside, so when they call back later you 'remember them like it was yesterday'. Say you installed a couple of deadbolts for someone and they call you up 2 years later and ask about a bath reno - You can refer to the folder and ask "Hey! How are you? How's the wife? Did your kid get into that college he wanted? How are those locks working? What can I help you with today?" It works. I do a lot of small stuff that turn into larger jobs down the road because I 'remember' them.
> 
> And - you can get filing cabinets cheap at Goodwill.


 I think this is excellent advice---- pretty much because it's what I do!.

Every job has a file-even if there are only 2 pieces of paper in it. the outside of the folder may only have the customers name---- but it might also have other valuable info----- did they pay slow?, what's the dogs name? conversation about a shared interest? what we did the job for----and what we SHOULD have charged????

INSIDE the folder may be even MORE valuable info.-----granted---- most files I never need to look at again---- but I bet a couple times a month we have the following conversation....
" Hey Kevin----remember that job we did on Fairmont---- 'member--- the one we did a couple years ago right before you went on that rock climbing trip???-- 'member--- the back of the house off in the corner we needed that left handed whatchamacallit---- in red???---- where did we get that from??????" We are gonna need another one over in chagrin falls.........
If I don't remember and Kevin doesn't remember----- the info is right on a receipt there in the file and once I am in the office I can find it in 30 seconds.

It won't be in Home Depots records or Carter lumbers computer, LOL
c'mon---is it REALLY that challenging to put a piece of paper in a manila folder????
stephen


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Stephen H said:


> I think this is excellent advice---- pretty much because it's what I do!.
> 
> Every job has a file-even if there are only 2 pieces of paper in it. the outside of the folder may only have the customers name---- but it might also have other valuable info----- did they pay slow?, what's the dogs name? conversation about a shared interest? what we did the job for----and what we SHOULD have charged????
> 
> ...


You are mistaking challenging with necessary. I could get all the receipts from each guy who picks up supplies but having it all online makes it unnecessary.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> You are mistaking challenging with necessary. I could get all the receipts from each guy who picks up supplies but having it all online makes it unnecessary.


You are mistaking that he is suggesting you use his methods.

It's obvious that there are many trades and many ways to do it. To him and his process it's necessary. So he's not mistaking anything.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You are mistaking that he is suggesting you use his methods.
> 
> It's obvious that there are many trades and many ways to do it. To him and his process it's necessary. So he's not mistaking anything.


He asked the question "is it that challenging"? I answered. You don't speak for him anyway, he's a big boy. Damn you are the energizer Bunny aren't you. :laughing:


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

There are probably 20 ways to keep receipts, whatever way you like to do it is the best for you. 
Too much free time causes problems


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

50 ways to file receipts Lyrics:

"The problem is all inside your head", book keeper said to me
The answer is easy if you take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to file your receipts

She said it's really not my habit to micro manage
Furthermore, I hope my meaning won't be lost or misconstrued
But I'll repeat myself, at the risk of being anal retentive
There must be fifty ways to file your receipts
Fifty ways to file your receipts ....


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I thought the initial question was kind of silly but then the arguing over the answer was even worse.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> He asked the question "is it that challenging"? I answered. You don't speak for him anyway, he's a big boy. Damn you are the energizer Bunny aren't you. :laughing:


Like I said you are not him and he wasn't asking you to change your method. You alai said that it wasn't necessary, but it is, for him. If he had as few vendors as you, maybe it's possible.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Like I said you are not him and he wasn't asking you to change your method. You alai said that it wasn't necessary, but it is, for him. If he had as few vendors as you, maybe it's possible.


Then why did he ask how difficult? I gave my answer that you don't like matters none.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Then why did he ask how difficult? I gave my answer that you don't like matters none.


You gotta stop typing angry, that last sentences read like a caveman typed it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You gotta stop typing angry, that last sentences read like a caveman typed it.


you aren't that important to get angry about.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm doing layout for a deck and I'm not really paying to much attention. It's called a day job.







:laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Robs new avatar


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Robs new avatar


I don't know, I do remember a thread not so long ago that one of us said we were unsubscribing to a thread and didn't, and the other did. 

I also seem to recall saying I'm done discussing it with you unless you have something new to offer.

What's even more amusing to me is the fact that you are going one for one with me.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I don't know, I do remember a thread not so long ago that one of us said we were unsubscribing to a thread and didn't, and the other did.
> 
> I also seem to recall saying I'm done discussing it with you unless you have something new to offer.
> 
> What's even more amusing to me is the fact that you are going one for one with me.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

I have always wondered, if I hand the tax man a stack of faded receipts that are no longer legible are they going to deny them? I mean its not my fault time has taken its toll on them. 

As tax season is coming up again I think its about time to go get some folders and filing boxes. I don't think they would be to pleased if I dropped a stack of receipts on their desk and went there you go that's the year in question its in there somewhere.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


>


You or me?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

SectorSecurity said:


> I have always wondered, if I hand the tax man a stack of faded receipts that are no longer legible are they going to deny them? I mean its not my fault time has taken its toll on them.
> 
> As tax season is coming up again I think its about time to go get some folders and filing boxes. I don't think they would be to pleased if I dropped a stack of receipts on their desk and went there you go that's the year in question its in there somewhere.


It's your fault for not maintaining your records.


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## TWhite (Oct 29, 2013)

All the more reason for digital copies!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree. That's what I do.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

EthanB said:


> I don't disagree with the job folder suggestion if you're using manual bookkeeping or if you have your accountant do all your bookkeeping. If you're using QuickBooks with any regularity there are better ways of managing your customer information. I keep about four folders of invoices per year, one for each quarter, and almost never look at them past the reconciliation period for that quarter.
> 
> If I want to look at a customer's history or any notes, it's two clicks on Quickbooks.


I also use QuickBooks. All my financials and client info can be instantly pulled up. The folder thing is mainly for redundancy and general notes that are written down immediately so I can 'remember' a client - Type of job, dates, times, and gist of conversations, likes/dislikes, wifes/kids/dogs names, birthdays, favorite sports teams, future projects they were thinking about, did they pay slow or quick, were they anal or easygoing, etc, etc. They're color coded by year, and after 5-6 years or so they get stored. I'm not doing a 1000 jobs a year, so this method is very effective for me.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> I have always wondered, if I hand the tax man a stack of faded receipts that are no longer legible are they going to deny them? I mean its not my fault time has taken its toll on them.


Scan them.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Thinking I will go buy a new all I'm 1 printer and scanner and go back through all my records, and start on the 2014 pile.


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## AllanE (Apr 25, 2010)

I can't imagine not scanning paper records these days. It provides access no matter where you are and much quicker access than old fashion files. Besides, I receive 80% of my paper (invoices, quotes, cut sheets, arch plans, etc) in digital format anyway, why not scan the other 20%. And with ScanSnap you can scan a document in about 3 seconds, I've never seen a scanner as fast.


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## TWhite (Oct 29, 2013)

SectorSecurity said:


> Thinking I will go buy a new all I'm 1 printer and scanner and go back through all my records, and start on the 2014 pile.


You don't wat to do that. Buy a dedicated scanner like the ScanSnap desktop scanners. They can do 25 - 2 sided pages a minute. A flatbed scanner has it's uses but day to day is way too slow for even a very small business.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

TWhite said:


> You don't wat to do that. Buy a dedicated scanner like the ScanSnap desktop scanners. They can do 25 - 2 sided pages a minute. A flatbed scanner has it's uses but day to day is way too slow for even a very small business.


Plus, most of them won't scan if you run out of ink. That's not a racket or anything...


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

AllanE said:


> I can't imagine not scanning paper records these days. It provides access no matter where you are and much quicker access than old fashion files. Besides, I receive 80% of my paper (invoices, quotes, cut sheets, arch plans, etc) in digital format anyway, why not scan the other 20%. And with ScanSnap you can scan a document in about 3 seconds, I've never seen a scanner as fast.


We scan just about everything so we have a backup for when we lose the paper. 

There are many things you cannot do with scanned files. It would be very harmful to scan the records that need to be reviewed by your accountant and the tax agencies and then think that they will review your records on a computer. I had an IRS audit two years ago and I had 8,000 sheets of paper. It is impossible to see those records and sort through them when they are scanned. I would never send my monthly sales receipts to my accountant in scanned files. I want my accountant to see the paper and look at them on paper. I want to see the paper because I want to make sure that my scanner did not pick up two pages at a time and my scan ended up with missing pages. This is also the reason I would never scan contracts and then throw the paper away.

Another thing I would never scan is invoices and contracts. Having the paper is still better and the paper is more reliable. It is much more difficult to erase an entire file tray than it is to have a hard drive crash, or lose your files do to some act of god beyond your control. It is easier to file and retrieve paper invoices and contracts than it is to scan and archive them on a computer (regardless of the software you use). You can always scan your contracts for a backup, but I would still keep the paper for a backup.


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## AllanE (Apr 25, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> It would be very harmful to scan the records that need to be reviewed by your accountant.
> 
> Another thing I would never scan is invoices and contracts. Having the paper is still better and the paper is more reliable. It is much more difficult to erase an entire file tray than it is to have a hard drive crash, or lose your files do to some act of god beyond your control. It is easier to file and retrieve paper invoices and contracts than it is to scan and archive them on a computer (regardless of the software you use). You can always scan your contracts for a backup, but I would still keep the paper for a backup.


I don't send anything to my CPA except my financials, I can't imagine sending a lot of paper to an accountant. With the right software a contractor really doesn't need to send much of anything to an accountant. As far as reliability, even deleted files are available on Dropbox for Business. If you happen to need a paper copy (which is very seldom), just print the scanned document. 

Anyway, I've been mostly paperless for 4 years and it is one of the best thing I've done in my company. It has added tremendous efficiency to my home building company.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TWhite said:


> You don't wat to do that. Buy a dedicated scanner like the ScanSnap desktop scanners. They can do 25 - 2 sided pages a minute. A flatbed scanner has it's uses but day to day is way too slow for even a very small business.


NEAT is a great one as well.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> We scan just about everything so we have a backup for when we lose the paper.
> 
> There are many things you cannot do with scanned files. It would be very harmful to scan the records that need to be reviewed by your accountant and the tax agencies and then think that they will review your records on a computer. I had an IRS audit two years ago and I had 8,000 sheets of paper. It is impossible to see those records and sort through them when they are scanned. I would never send my monthly sales receipts to my accountant in scanned files. I want my accountant to see the paper and look at them on paper. I want to see the paper because I want to make sure that my scanner did not pick up two pages at a time and my scan ended up with missing pages. This is also the reason I would never scan contracts and then throw the paper away.
> 
> Another thing I would never scan is invoices and contracts. Having the paper is still better and the paper is more reliable. It is much more difficult to erase an entire file tray than it is to have a hard drive crash, or lose your files do to some act of god beyond your control. It is easier to file and retrieve paper invoices and contracts than it is to scan and archive them on a computer (regardless of the software you use). You can always scan your contracts for a backup, but I would still keep the paper for a backup.


It's called a filing system. Scanned docs are now searchable. you can also label them any way you want. 

Also is called having your chit backed up. I am backed up locally and on a cloud.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

AllanE said:


> I don't send anything to my CPA except my financials, I can't imagine sending a lot of paper to an accountant. With the right software a contractor really doesn't need to send much of anything to an accountant. As far as reliability, even deleted files are available on Dropbox for Business. If you happen to need a paper copy (which is very seldom), just print the scanned document.
> 
> Anyway, I've been mostly paperless for 4 years and it is one of the best thing I've done in my company. It has added tremendous efficiency to my home building company.


For the purpose of reviewing hundreds of documents (pieces of paper), where a person has to match papers with other papers, there is no comparison between doing that from paper or scanned files. It is burdensome and crazy to try to use a monitor screen to compare, match, analyze and compute more that a few pages. 

Whether you are paying your accountant $8 per hour or $250 per hour the easier you make your accountant's work the more money you will save. If you give your accountant a file he (or she) has to print, make a folder for and label the folder then you are causing him extra work and time that could be devoted to more important aspects of your records and the problem I have is I think even the best accountants are not going to look at scanned files and analyze them as much as they would do with paper.

Once you scan your files and throw the paper away it is very difficult and burdensome to view the files, make changes, remove some, add some and make them the most presentable that they can be. Paper is easy to flip through and make changes.

Lots of luck winning when you give the IRS scanned files!

I can send my underground utility partner paper or scanned files. I would never send a scanned file and always give him paper where I can show him highlights, critical things and we can discuss them in person. The same is true for my CPA and the IRS. I am not going to walk into my CPA's office with a scanned file and sit in a chair like an idiot while he is viewing the file on this monitor that faces only towards him. As he is looking at a scanned file it is virtually impossible (not 100%) for my CPA to make annotations on pages with concerns.

I scan every record I send to my CPA because I want an exact copy of my records at my office, but my CPA always requests the paper copies of my checking accounts and payable receipts. Every year, I deliver one or two plastic file trays and pick them up after my taxes are completed.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It's called a filing system. Scanned docs are now searchable. you can also label them any way you want.
> 
> Also is called having your chit backed up. I am backed up locally and on a cloud.


Scanned files have always been searchable and nothing has changed for the past 30 years. I don't see any reason nor value for using ScannApp, Neat 5 nor any other software application for scanning files. That is too much junk in the trunk. How hard can it be to scan a file with a regular scanner, label the file and put it where you can find it and if you can't remember where you put it you go to your desktop search and search for the file. I have one folder dedicated to every scanned file and each category has sub folders inside.

The 'CLOUD'. Yes, I remember that argument!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> Scanned files have always been searchable and nothing has changed for the past 30 years. I don't see any reason nor value for using ScannApp, Neat 5 nor any other software application for scanning files. That is too much junk in the trunk. How hard can it be to scan a file with a regular scanner, label the file and put it where you can find it and if you can't remember where you put it you go to your desktop search and search for the file. I have one folder dedicated to every scanned file and each category has sub folders inside.


No they haven't. They had to be manual searched. You scam an image file, unless you had some pretty soficticated OCR software you were searching the context of the document.

And a ton had changed in 30 years. If you don't see the benefit of a Neat scanner then it's obvious you are out of touch with technology. 

These devices sort and store you files for you and create searchable indexes.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> For the purpose of reviewing hundreds of documents (pieces of paper), where a person has to match papers with other papers, there is no comparison between doing that from paper or scanned files. It is burdensome and crazy to try to use a monitor screen to compare, match, analyze and compute more that a few pages.
> 
> Whether you are paying your accountant $8 per hour or $250 per hour the easier you make your accountant's work the more money you will save. If you give your accountant a file he (or she) has to print, make a folder for and label the folder then you are causing him extra work and time that could be devoted to more important aspects of your records and the problem I have is I think even the best accountants are not going to look at scanned files and analyze them as much as they would do with paper.
> 
> ...


That's all my account uses is scanned files and an accountants copy of my QB.

It sounds like you are just stuck in your ways, which is fine, but to say is faster and easier to dig through files and folders is ridiculous. I can find any file, receipt or document I need any where any time in a matter of seconds. I cab edit, highlight, screen grab and send to anyone in the world in a matter of seconds all from my phone, all before you find the filing cabinet the document is in.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

As easy as that.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That's all my account uses is scanned files and an accountants copy of my QB.
> 
> It sounds like you are just stuck in your ways, which is fine, but to say is faster and easier to dig through files and folders is ridiculous. I can find any file, receipt or document I need any where any time in a matter of seconds. I cab edit, highlight, screen grab and send to anyone in the world in a matter of seconds all from my phone, all before you find the filing cabinet the document is in.


Maybe, sending information to your accountant in paper and a scanned file would be better and it would make your accountant's ability to manipulate your records (in a good way) easier.

This is one year of my records. Every page has been scanned just in case these papers get lost and my CPA gets a copy of the scanned files.

The problem I have with scanned files is it would take one huge file for these records, or it would take many small files. It raises the hair on the back of my neck and raises my blood pressure when someone sends me an email that contains more that two files that I have to download. I have a real estate agent who always sends me no less than 10 attachments that have to be opened and printed. I always call and tell her I would rather wait for the paper in the mail. I have too many things to do, like write on CT, before I can sit at a computer piecing scanned files together.

Try having your accountant analyze this from a scanned file.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> As easy as that.



I really like that and you are pretty good! 
That was really quick!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> Maybe, sending information to your accountant in paper and a scanned file would be better and it would make your accountant's ability to manipulate your records (in a good way) easier.
> 
> This is one year of my records. Every page has been scanned just in case these papers get lost and my CPA gets a copy of the scanned files.
> 
> ...


How would it be any different? I'm not getting your point. How is it faster? Your digital system would be organized in the same way. That's why they are still called file folderson your computer. Same system just digital.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I save a lot of money by having a bookkeeper vs. accountant rummage through receipts. All I give my accountant at the end of the year for my business is one piece of paper which is my P&L statement for the year.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> How would it be any different? I'm not getting your point. How is it faster? Your digital system would be organized in the same way. That's why they are still called file folderson your computer. Same system just digital.


Maybe I am only delirious. 

That plastic file tray for 2013 contains about 2,000 pieces of paper (maybe 3,000). Those papers are not for my plumbing business and my plumbing business contains one more full box. If I send that one box to my CPA in the paper form it is easier for my CPA to run his fingers through the 2,000 pages and he can scan the entire 2,000 pages in less than two minutes and know fairly well what I sent him. He knows in the blink of an eye exactly where something he wants is and he has the ability to pluck one folder out and play with it without wiggling his way through a burdensome bunch of scanned files. He can easily re-arrange things he wants without having to modify my scanned file(s) so that I don't recognize it any more and I won't have to try to figure out what he did to my 2,000 pages in a scanned file. My CPA can throw all my 2,000 pages in the air and I can see what he did to them in the blink of an eye and piece them back together within minutes. It is not easy to piece together scanned files unless you are like one of those people in movies who can get inside the hard drive.

I can go on for days about the advantages of sending paper records to your accountant. One more critical reason for sending paper is my accountant calls me no less than 5 times every year to request documents that are missing. First, it would be difficult and cumbersome for him to open one or more files to look for those missing documents. Second, when he receives the missing document it is more cumbersome for my CPA to insert that document in a scanned file. It is much easier for my CPA to stick missed documents inside a folder. To find missing documents requires either multiple files that are cumbersome or one huge file that is cumbersome.

I would never think of sending my CPA only scanned files for the information in that file box. My life would be a disaster if my scanner screwed up and missed only one important page. I've had many accidents where I scanned files and pages were missing because they were stuck together. I've scanned files over files with similar names and threw the paper away. I've scanned files, opened them later and there was nothing. I've lost scanned files through the years for various reasons. When it comes to paying taxes I am not going to take chances and will not rely on electronics equipment to store my most valuable documents.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Everyone is right as long as your filing system works in a manner that doesn't kill you or doesn't cause you to lose money. We all love what we are familiar with and works. At the same time it is difficult to justify changing what works when there is no serious need to make the change.

Really, I just wanted to see if my signature works. I hope it is okay to put my video and software link here and this was allowed a few years ago. Since, I do not have the ability to edit my software posts after a few hours I can manage the links better on the signature.


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## AllanE (Apr 25, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> Lots of luck winning when you give the IRS scanned files!


The IRS has accepted digital copies of documents since 1997, you might want to Google “Rev. Proc. 97–22”. You do not have to provide them the original hard copies of any document in case of an audit. 

Let me be blunt, my primary business goal is to make as much money as possible. To that end the higher volume I do, the more homes I build, the larger the homes, the more revenue my company has. To do a fairly high volume of work (I currently have $20 million under construction), I have to be extremely organized, efficient, and have some really good systems in place. The totality of my entire company organization is only me, 1 part time person in my office, 1 field supervisor, and a recently hired superintendent in training. I do not want a lot of useless, costly office overhead.

One of the systems I put into place as a way of being high volume small builder is a paperless office. While I consider the word “paperless” to be somewhat of a misnomer, the primary goal is to not be shuffling and filing a bunch of paper AND to be able to retrieve a needed document whenever and wherever I am. If my job superintendent is on the job and needs to pull up a plumber’s quote or a survey or a cut sheet on appliances, he can do this on his iPad. I can pull up an architectural plan on my iPhone, I do it all the time, I simply zoom in on the area I am looking for. I don’t carry hard copies of plans with me. 

This idea of sending documents to my accountant or CPA is foreign to me, because when we receive an invoice (I get about 20-30 a day), we immediately post it into our accounting system and then file it in Dropbox. I never have to touch that document again. One idea of an efficient office is to only “touch” a document once. With at least 10,000 documents hitting my office yearly, scanning and filing in Dropbox is the only way I can stay organized without a lot of office overhead.

Occasionally, actually rarely, I do want a paper copy of a document. With the really good labeling system we use I can retrieve it in seconds and print it. In addition to invoices, quotes, plans, my contracts are digital, all the loan documents I sign with banks are digital, my tax returns are digital. 

Allan


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## TWhite (Oct 29, 2013)

I agree with Allan, I never send paper to my CPA. I run monthly reports when my bank statement arrives and email him the reports from my AccountEdge accounting system. This takes about 10 - 15 minutes. The key like Allan said is to scan every document and put it in the correct digital folder and enter it into your accounting system and assign it to a particular job. My accounting system also lets me store the scanned invoice with a PO.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> Maybe I am only delirious.
> 
> That plastic file tray for 2013 contains about 2,000 pieces of paper (maybe 3,000). Those papers are not for my plumbing business and my plumbing business contains one more full box. If I send that one box to my CPA in the paper form it is easier for my CPA to run his fingers through the 2,000 pages and he can scan the entire 2,000 pages in less than two minutes and know fairly well what I sent him. He knows in the blink of an eye exactly where something he wants is and he has the ability to pluck one folder out and play with it without wiggling his way through a burdensome bunch of scanned files. He can easily re-arrange things he wants without having to modify my scanned file(s) so that I don't recognize it any more and I won't have to try to figure out what he did to my 2,000 pages in a scanned file. My CPA can throw all my 2,000 pages in the air and I can see what he did to them in the blink of an eye and piece them back together within minutes. It is not easy to piece together scanned files unless you are like one of those people in movies who can get inside the hard drive.
> 
> ...


Again how are scanned files burdensome. You keep using these words but dint explain why it is so. He pens a file folder scans the folder for the doc and Irene the doc. It's that simple.

Or simply types in a search phrase and all related docs come up.

You would be screwed if you forgot one page, it's no different. Two big boxes of files versus one little flash drive or even a link to a drop box folder is far less cumbersome.

You and your CPA are just dinosaurs why are afraid of change and technology. You can't, or won't, see the benefits. It's rather sad.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

AllanE said:


> The IRS has accepted digital copies of documents since 1997, you might want to Google “Rev. Proc. 97–22”. You do not have to provide them the original hard copies of any document in case of an audit.
> 
> Let me be blunt, my primary business goal is to make as much money as possible. To that end the higher volume I do, the more homes I build, the larger the homes, the more revenue my company has. To do a fairly high volume of work (I currently have $20 million under construction), I have to be extremely organized, efficient, and have some really good systems in place. The totality of my entire company organization is only me, 1 part time person in my office, 1 field supervisor, and a recently hired superintendent in training. I do not want a lot of useless, costly office overhead.
> 
> ...


I believe that it works for you. I believe that you can send 100% of your files to the IRS and tax agencies for the purpose of paying your taxes. I don't believe that your accountant can go through a major audit with the IRS when your audit contains 8,000 sheets of paper and more than 100 reports on digital files like my CPA did for my business two years ago. It is absolutely impossible for an auditor to tell whether or not you are fudging on your taxes when you have large digital files.

If and when the time comes that you get a major audit you are going to print your digital files and that is when you will need to develop a paperwork system that matches your accounting system. That is when you will have to determine exact way you need to present your paperwork to your auditor to make viewing your records simple, understandable and in a fashion that shows you did not make mistakes.

The truth is; when I was audited two years ago someone reported me to the IRS and told them that I was not paying all my taxes on my rental properties. Actually, I never cheated on one penny and even paid my taxes on very insignificant income items i.e. an advertising company pays me $18 per month and the check is written in my personal name. When the auditor went to my CPA's office I had 8,000 pages with folders and reports that were so perfect the auditor flipped through the pages for about 5 minutes and then went into a conversation about her college and career with the IRS. This was because she knew within 5 minutes that she was not going to find one mistake. The speed for the audit and proof of accuracy would not have occurred with 8,000 pages on multiple scanned files.

When 'push comes to shove' is when you will find out and I personally take the safe route. It is like going to court for a murder charge where you are guilty unless you can prove that you are innocent. When I process my records for taxes I give everyone both scanned files and the actual paper and reports to make sure that my records are accurate to the penny without reasonable doubt.

They say that the IRS generally goes back only three years on your taxes. In my cases, the IRS audited me two times and both times they wanted to see only two years plus the current year up-to-date. It is a nice feeling to know that when I am audited I am 100% ready and the only thing I need to do is pluck my plastic file tray from my archive room and I can even print my scanned files, but I have never seen my CPA nor an auditor look at my scanned files. My company gets audited every year by my worker's comp and general liability company and not one audited ever asked to see electronic files. Every auditor asks to see the records and my CPA always gives the auditor paper records. I believe that if scanned records was so great as everyone claims in this thread then auditors would never have to visit my CPA. All we would have to do is send them scanned files.


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## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

If I sent a box with 3,000 receipts to my CPA and said here uou go,let me know when you are done, they would laugh at me.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> I believe that it works for you. I believe that you can send 100% of your files to the IRS and tax agencies for the purpose of paying your taxes. I don't believe that your accountant can go through a major audit with the IRS when your audit contains 8,000 sheets of paper and more than 100 reports on digital files like my CPA did for my business two years ago. It is absolutely impossible for an auditor to tell whether or not you are fudging on your taxes when you have large digital files.
> 
> If and when the time comes that you get a major audit you are going to print your digital files and that is when you will need to develop a paperwork system that matches your accounting system. That is when you will have to determine exact way you need to present your paperwork to your auditor to make viewing your records simple, understandable and in a fashion that shows you did not make mistakes.
> 
> ...


Why can't they tell if you are fudging? Again, please explain your claim.

The lack of then asking isn't proof of anything. You are just stuck in your ways and are blind to what others are telling you. You gotta see the merit if ask if these contractors are telling you that's how they do it. You gotta see you have planned your feet and refuse to consider any other option as valid.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Again how are scanned files burdensome. You keep using these words but dint explain why it is so. He pens a file folder scans the folder for the doc and Irene the doc. It's that simple.
> 
> Or simply types in a search phrase and all related docs come up.
> 
> ...


I think you think that everything is perfect as long as the information in your scanned files is perfect. I'm not sure that you understand the visual benefits for producing the actual paper folders that auditors can flip through vs. opening one page at a time and staring at a computer monitor.

I have 2 decks of playing cards and 1,000 pieces of paper that are exactly the same size and they are unsorted. One card is missing and I am not going to tell you which one. Will it be faster for you to find that missing card if I hand you the actual cards and paper, or will it be easier if I put the cards on a digital file. On a digital file you would have to go through 1,100 screens and tally up the cards. With the paper, you can throw the 1,000 pieces of blank paper away and you have only 2 deck to sort through. 

Then, when I ask you to prove to prove which card is missing you have two choices; you can flip through your 1,100 monitor screens and try to prove which card is missing, but I may think you made a mistake, have doubt that you are correct and ask you to show me all 1,100 screens again, or you can lay the cards across a table and show me the the stack with the missing ace. Which is faster and proves your case better.

I scan virtually every paper that comes into my office. I even scan advertisements for things I think I may want in the future. I scan every tax record, receipt and business document, but having paper is critical for many things (not everything).

That is how an audit works. In my case, my IRS auditor had something that she was looking for, but she would not tell me what it was. Therefore, my CPA insisted on presenting paper records that are much easier to sort through. The IRS auditor goes to exactly what she was looking for and pulled out that specific file, or files. If I presented her with files containing 8,000 pages she would most-likely have spent the entire day at my CPA's office vs. 5 minutes and a b.s. session. Maybe she spent 20 minutes looking at the paper records. I was not at the audit and I'm just going by what my CPA's secretary told me.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

I really am stubborn and I am not always right.

I remember we had an argument (not with you) several years ago and I swore that Nibco gate valves were better than ball valves. I always liked the Nibco gate valves because the bodies were made of bronze that did not corrode like brass and with gate valves it was possible to repair the valve vs. having to remove and replace it.

About two years after the argument I stopped using Nibco valves because most supply houses don't have them in stock. So, I went to a less expensive gate valve and had nothing but problems with the gate valves. Now, I use only ball valves, but will still never use one-quarter turn angle stops underneath sinks. They still last only a few months before they won't turn off.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> I think you think that everything is perfect as long as the information in your scanned files is perfect. I'm not sure that you understand the visual benefits for producing the actual paper folders that auditors can flip through vs. opening one page at a time and staring at a computer monitor.
> 
> I have 2 decks of playing cards and 1,000 pieces of paper that are exactly the same size and they are unsorted. One card is missing and I am not going to tell you which one. Will it be faster for you to find that missing card if I hand you the actual cards and paper, or will it be easier if I put the cards on a digital file. On a digital file you would have to go through 1,100 screens and tally up the cards. With the paper, you can throw the 1,000 pieces of blank paper away and you have only 2 deck to sort through.
> 
> ...


I think the scanned files are exactly like your paper. You scan a doc and filter it in a folder. If something is missing you scan it abs add it to the folder.

You have yet to show me how it's better to have 3000 pages to look through versus using the search feature on your computer.

Your deck of cards examples isn't soles to apples. If I gave you a stack of photos and asked to put them in order by date they were taken out have you my flash drive from my phone which could you sort faster? The digital files. Did that prove my point? No, even though the digital is faster in that instances it has nothing to do with the topic.

Let's say you are missing an invoice from March. You have to dig through mounds of paper not knowing where you misplaced it. It could be any where. My files are all on my computer. If I file something in the wrong folder it takes a matter of seconds to find it and correct the mistake. You may have dropped that invoice behind the seat of your car. Who knows where it is.

Why du you think it would take all day to find a digital file. Are you not intellegent enough to name a file? Do you really not know how to search the contents of a file?

Your problem is your ignorance. You have no idea how to use these tools so you think it's hard. It's not. It's super fast and easy. I would suggest enrolling in a community college course on computers so you can learn about ask the things you are missing.


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## TWhite (Oct 29, 2013)

TNT, just because he likes to do something a different way than you does not mean you have to call him ignorant or not intelligent!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TWhite said:


> TNT, just because he likes to do something a different way than you does not mean you have to call him ignorant or not intelligent!


He loves to argue. one time I unsubsribed hoping to end an argument, however I had to resubscibe because he kept going with false chit about me. Then he attacked my honesty by saying I lied about unsubscribing. He will be here any minute to argue with me about this. :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TWhite said:


> TNT, just because he likes to do something a different way than you does not mean you have to call him ignorant or not intelligent!


Do you know what ignorant means? It means lack of knowledge. He keeps making claims that digital is cumbersome. I'm simply addressing that. I'm addressing his claims not his methods. This is just like the Apple thread. I'm not attacking his choice but his misinformation on other choices.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> He loves to argue. one time I unsubsribed hoping to end an argument, however I had to resubscibe because he kept going with false chit about me. Then he attacked my honesty by saying I lied about unsubscribing. He will be here any minute to argue with me about this. :laughing:


Yea I remember that thread. I said I was going to unsubscribe because I was tired of you wanting to argue the same thing without adding anything new. I have yet to go back to that thread because what you say about me matters not.

Glad to know I have that kind of power over you.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Yea I remember that thread. I said I was going to unsubscribe because I was tired of you wanting to argue the same thing without adding anything new. I have yet to go back to that thread because what you say about me matters not.
> 
> Glad to know I have that kind of power over you.


Case in point. :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Mike you cry too much.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> He loves to argue. one time I unsubsribed hoping to end an argument, however I had to resubscibe because he kept going with false chit about me. Then he attacked my honesty by saying I lied about unsubscribing. He will be here any minute to argue with me about this. :laughing:


I thought the purpose of forums is to discuss (argue) for the sake of learning. I don't have a clue regarding what the rest of your post pertains to.

As for this thread, there is no sense in anyone getting upset because I don't agree. If you can convince me that using only scanned files is better than using both scanned and paper files then I will admit that I am wrong and put it in writing. Until then, I am not going to make believe that I agree for the sake of being friendly. As they say, "if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen".

I will admit that it takes me maybe 100 times longer to see some things clearly. I've been to seminars and classes where everyone understood something and I could not understand nor see clearly even after multiple explanations and several days. For myself, that only means that the people teaching me did not make the explanations clear so I could understand and if it takes 100 years to get me to understand or to change to a better way then that is what it is and I can't change myself just because someone thinks I should have the ability to do so. 

At this time, I have not been convinced that using only scanned files is better and you have to ask yourself who failed in this thread. Did I fail to convince others, or did they fail to convince me. Whether or not people use paper or scanned files will not make a significant difference in my life. What is important is that people can discuss things without arguing, without getting emotional and decide for themselves what they prefer. 

I enjoy good arguments and made the decision several years ago that I will not allow anyone on this forum nor any comments to get me upset. Everyone is entitled to express their opinions in any manner they can get away with.

To avoid antagonizing anyone, I will personally rest my case (arguments) in this thread and will not respond to any more posts. I think everyone did a great job with expressing their opinions and I find that it is very interesting to see how many people have a system that they like and have faith in. This is how we (I) get a benchmark to know what others do and to compare how well we do. At this time, I can see how many people use only scanned files and at some point in my life I may may move more towards only scanning files. Therefore, even though I can't see clearly today the thread may still have value and was not a waste of time. Regardless, of the conclusions a person comes to after reading this thread he should be able to see more clearly what he wants and be able to proceed with using the system he chooses with more conviction, speed and accuracy.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Mike you cry too much.


I'm laughing actually. And not with you. :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I'm laughing actually. And not with you. :laughing:


I thought it was funny to that you had to come back to a thread because I was such a threat.


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