# Question about insurance for truck



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Are you comparing the right coverages? 

Up to now you've been trying to mix personal and business.

What I'm saying is call them up for a straight commercial insurance policy without any of the 'games' going on with the personal this and that.

If they are like out here you shouldn't have any problems with this driving after work issue that you are running into.

I would not be driving a work truck with personal insurance coverage. (unless you have a big personal umbrella insurnace policy) In America we have a strange thing where the agent can't be found anymore after you get in an accident driving a work truck and you are being sued by the other insurance company. You might say, but I posted this question on contractor talk, and I talked to my agent and she said I was fine, now they say she doesn't work here any more and they are denying the claim because they are saying personal insurance coverage doesn't cover a work vehicle.

What you need is 3 policies (all commercial). 1 for the truck, 1 for the trailer and a 3rd policy called a tool rider to cover your tools. For tools usually you will find that they will cover up to a dollar amount you want to pay coverage on- for instance $10,000 worth of odds and ends tools, which will be any tool that costs less then a cut off amount, for instance up to $10,000 worth of tools with none costing more than $500 each. Any tool over $500 might need to be listed separately as a tool schedule. Such as a $1000 tile saw, if it isn't scheduled it won't be covered.

By the way $600 from Allstate is not going to be in the ball park for commercial coverage. It isn't a real number because it isn't real coverage, if I am following along correctly, that's personal coverage not commercial. You are comparing apples to oranges. Your commercial policy will be higher than $600. You need to compare commercial to commercial.

By the way are you complying with USDOT? When that trailer is hooked up to your truck is the combined weight pushing you into USDOT requirements?

(By the way, since I haven't hacked on handymen lately. All the above is stuff that hacks and handymen are famous for ignoring and playing unfairily with so they can work cheaper then legitimate contractors. Personal insurance, no USDOT compliance costs... etc.... etc... etc...)


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## Decker09 (Jan 5, 2009)

*insurance*

i have a 2002 f250 work truck my commercial insurance is cheap priced , just paid it was little under $600 FOR A YEAR , when your using your auto for work you need a commercial policy ,


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

The tool policy is being sorted out tommorow but she said it's will be an inland marine policy which has no upper limit for tool claims. So if i had a $10k tool i could claim the full amount to replace with new. 

The commercial insurance couldnt offer me what i wanted. I wanted a low deductable $100 or less, New vehicle replacement, High limits which the commercial couldnt touch for the same price and it was restrictive on when the vehicle could be used for personal use. As an example if i crashed at 8pm going to walmart on a sunday then i may not be covered under a basic commercial policy. The extended policy was way to much money. So she said because my vehicle is mainly used as a personal use vehicle i can change the policy to a Buisness insurance that keeps my current policy but covers me for both Personal use and buisness use. Reason being is i dont use my truck at all for picking up stuff. It al goes in my trailer. Thats the extra policy i have to take out ontop of my buisness policy. But thats only about $50.


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## FremontREO (Sep 30, 2009)

Personally with what you are stating on your posts leaves me trying to decide: do you understand your insurance policy or worse yet does your agent understand and is not conveying this to you? You need a commercial Insurance policy for any vehicle that is used for commercial work, trailer needs a commercial policy and your tools are covered up to a certain limit that you decide. My decision:: Get a new agent asap.
"if I have a 10k tool stolen I could claim the full amount" that is a yes and a no. 1) you have to insure that tool for 10k and costs more than insuring that tool for say 5K. This inland marine policy can go up to "any limit" but the cost is based off of per/$100 worth of tool coverage. 
Normally I see commercial vehicle insurance with lower costs than a personal auto policy here but that is based off your State of residence.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

FremontREO said:


> Personally with what you are stating on your posts leaves me trying to decide: do you understand your insurance policy or worse yet does your agent understand and is not conveying this to you? You need a commercial Insurance policy for any vehicle that is used for commercial work, trailer needs a commercial policy and your tools are covered up to a certain limit that you decide. My decision:: Get a new agent asap.
> "if I have a 10k tool stolen I could claim the full amount" that is a yes and a no. 1) you have to insure that tool for 10k and costs more than insuring that tool for say 5K. This inland marine policy can go up to "any limit" but the cost is based off of per/$100 worth of tool coverage.
> Normally I see commercial vehicle insurance with lower costs than a personal auto policy here but that is based off your State of residence.


 
This was my question about needing commercial insurance but because i don't work from my truck i don't need it. Basically my truck is how it get to and from my office. Just like my wife driving to her office. My trailer has my tools of the trade and needs a separate policy in case the trailer is in anyway disconnected from my truck which means it would automatically have no insurance of it's own. Tools are being sorted for cover but from what she says i don't have to list any tools even if they are to the value of my policy. She basically said no upper limit for tools. Have no idea of deductible though. There's no law's saying that my truck has to have commercial insurance of any kind. She said i just have to have the correct limits for the state. She said the reason Commercial is cheaper is because you are only meant to be using the truck in business hours. If i needed it for weekends and nights then they could void any claim. But like i already said they do have a 24/7 coverage that is way to expensive. I need to be able to use my truck for work and pleasure. It's not just a commercial use truck.

I will post up more details of the trailer and tool coverage when she sorts it out. Thats the bit im worried about most. She has to confirm my trailer has brakes and break away brakeing system installed. Which it does. But she needs the vin number of the trailer to confirm that. Plus i need to value all my tools.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Do you work in the field? if so you need a work truck.
I saw the pic's of your truck in an other thread and thats not a "work" truck, Its too nice!


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

bconley said:


> Do you work in the field? if so you need a work truck.
> I saw the pic's of your truck in an other thread and thats not a "work" truck, Its too nice!


 
Thats the problem. I need a truck for a few reasons. Getting up the snow covered mountains in the winter for snowboarding, mountain biking and towing my trailer. 90% of the miles i do are for pleasure and the truck only tows my trailer from job to job. The current job i am on it has sat for 3 months. But yeah the truck is nice but i dont use it for working from so it gets looked after well. From what i have read online a main reason for needing commercial insurance on trucks is carrying ladders! Is that right?


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## FremontREO (Sep 30, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> This was my question about needing commercial insurance but because i don't work from my truck i don't need it. Basically my truck is how it get to and from my office. Just like my wife driving to her office. My trailer has my tools of the trade and needs a separate policy in case the trailer is in anyway disconnected from my truck which means it would automatically have no insurance of it's own. Tools are being sorted for cover but from what she says i don't have to list any tools even if they are to the value of my policy. She basically said no upper limit for tools. Have no idea of deductible though. There's no law's saying that my truck has to have commercial insurance of any kind. She said i just have to have the correct limits for the state. She said the reason Commercial is cheaper is because you are only meant to be using the truck in business hours. If i needed it for weekends and nights then they could void any claim. But like i already said they do have a 24/7 coverage that is way to expensive. I need to be able to use my truck for work and pleasure. It's not just a commercial use truck.
> 
> I will post up more details of the trailer and tool coverage when she sorts it out. Thats the bit im worried about most. She has to confirm my trailer has brakes and break away brakeing system installed. Which it does. But she needs the vin number of the trailer to confirm that. Plus i need to value all my tools.


Listen lets cut to the chase and protect yourself: I don't know how your trailer magically gets from job site to job site but if the truck pulls it you need commercial insurance since you are using the truck for "a job". Now to protect yourself here: Have your agent write on a seperate piece of paper that he/she understands that you don't need commercial insurance for pulling your commercial work trailer from job site to job site. See if they sign this form for ya that way if you have a claim you have proof that you were told the personal policy was adequate. Your agent has E&O Insurance for these cases. Personally I don't care about your agent but don't want to see a contractor between a rock and a hard place.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

FremontREO said:


> Listen lets cut to the chase and protect yourself: I don't know how your trailer magically gets from job site to job site but if the truck pulls it you need commercial insurance since you are using the truck for "a job". Now to protect yourself here: Have your agent write on a seperate piece of paper that he/she understands that you don't need commercial insurance for pulling your commercial work trailer from job site to job site. See if they sign this form for ya that way if you have a claim you have proof that you were told the personal policy was adequate. Your agent has E&O Insurance for these cases. Personally I don't care about your agent but don't want to see a contractor between a rock and a hard place.


 
I will know for sure what it covers when i get my new policy. But from what she says i only need commercial insurance for the truck if i carry any type of tools and materials. Towing dont matter as the trailer has it's own policy. She said i would be fine with buisness insurance (Allstate site says contractors should use buisness insurance!) and from what i can make out from Allstates site she is correct. But i will def confirm because like you say you need to cover your self. I just wanna mke sure im covered in buisness time and pleasure time :thumbsup:


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## FremontREO (Sep 30, 2009)

Ahh good thing. Sounds like she has it covered now I know that when I pull my 42' trailer with equipment and DOT numbers that the truck can be my personal insurance policied truck since the trailer is insured. Don't wait for your policy since (no disrespect) but I don't think you will understand your policy since most of us don't either...GET THE SIGNED LETTER. 
Hate to not have proper insurance coverage when you need it the most.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I hope you never need the policy cause you're never going to find anybody at Allstate to say anything when you do need it other then:

"Who told you that?"

Which will be followed up by showing you some buried paragraph on page 67 of your policy that voids your coverage and absolves them from paying a dime.

And again - does your trailer when hooked up to your truck create a combined weight that puts you into US DOT requirements? You seem to be ignoring this question.

Also, how are you getting materials to the job site? How are you meeting customers for estimates, signing contracts, collecting payment? If you aren't walking or pedaling a bike, whatever vehicle your butt sits in when you do these activities is a commercial vehicle.

This one is a dead give away your agent is lost.


> Towing dont matter as the trailer has it's own policy.


You and she are confusing covering your material possesions, vs covering somebody elses. You smash into a bus full of kids while towing your trailer and your trailer might get fixed under the policy covering your trailer. The lawyers of all the kids will contact your personal vehicle insurnance company and your insuance company will discover you were working and say "He doesn''t have a commercial automobile policy to cover him or your kiddies, please don't ever call us again as we are not representing him nor are our lawyers. Here is his home phone number, you may take him for everything he owns."

This all reminds me ofthe confusion that hacks also have with their GL policies too. They tell customers I'm insured. Then they proceed to do work that is specifically not covered under their GL policy which is extremely specific to what it covers. Pretty much frauding the customer and lying to them. If something happens and the homeowners lawyers contact the contractors GL insurance the insurance company will tell them, that work isn't covered under his policy, he has no coverage, here is his personal phone number, please go sue him for everything he owns. (which in the case of most hacks is nothing, so the homeowner is screwed)


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

what type of business are you running? are you subbing, which puts you as a contractor or working hourly for someone else? this should help determine if you need commercial or personal insurance. the earlier conversation about pulling the trailer with personal insurance didn't sound right-if you are using it to generate income working for yourself, then that's the purpose of commercial insurnace. 

I second Mike; hope you don't have to use the policy one day and find out you are out of luck!

BTW, why are you submitting a claim for a mirror? I've been of the mindset that I don't submit anything that's not the fault of another. Does anyoen else have a perspective on this?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Spoke to her again about 10 mins ago. She run through everything with me again. She said that because i only run a half ton with a trailer my size i don't need commercial policy insurance and that a business policy which is doing the same thing as commercial, will be fine she said that if i look for commercial insurance on line it with come up with a option for business. Reason being is everyone thinks they need commercial for a work truck when they don't. She said business covers just like commercial but with better coverage and i can use the vehicle for pleasure use also. Commercial also wont give me a for new option on my truck which i want because it's a $52k truck. Commercial values the truck a lot less without that. My deductible is also a lot less. 

I don't come under any US dot requirements. I can have a policy for just that trailer that covers just the trailer. If i didn't then the trailer would only be covered when connected to my truck. I wouldn't get no money for the trailer if it rolled over when connected to my truck but if it did then hit someone i would be covered. The trailer has to be insured as a separate vehicle for it to have it's own insurance. Like i said i want to be able to leave it on site without worry or if someone steals it. 

The reason i made a claim was because i was on my way home from work and some idiot smashed my driver mirror off my truck and then run. I didn't get their plate but i had to make a claim on my policy. Which lucky for me only cost $100 in the end. $1200 for a new driver door mirror wouldn't have gone down well with the with the wife. 


I also gave Allstate a quick call to confirm what she said and she was right. The guy said that many people drive around with Commercial policy's when they could have a business policy for less money and have better coverage. 


Goto Allstate web site http://www.allstate.com/ and click business insurance tab. It will take you to another page which gives you the option of Commercial or Business policy's. Click business and you will see what it covers. 

I would double check how your policy's are worded as by the sounds of it many Commercial policy's only cover the truck in work hours. No weekend and nights use. I'm sure you lot only use them in that time but i bet many don't. We have many vehicles insured through the family business and they are all the same. Thats the reason we wont let drivers take them home. Just in case they use them at night.


Aint heard back about tool or trailer yet.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Is your trailer lettered?

$52,000 sounds like a nice truck, what are you driving?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Is your trailer lettered?
> 
> $52,000 sounds like a nice truck, what are you driving?


 
Nah Mike at the moment trailer is not lettered in anyway. Would like to in the next year or 2 but at $1500 for the wrap it's a ***** much at the moment. There she is below.


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## Solar Control (Jan 27, 2009)

I get the feeling that your agent is trying her best to help you, but she may not work with businesses that much. I hope I am wrong.

An important thing we have is an insurance agent that has a lot of experience with commercial policies and we trust him. I really don't care who the policy is with - we tell him what we think we need covered and then he gives us his recommendations. A lot of of it involves comparing costs, _but in the end it is the relationship_.

If you and I happen to be in an accident, I'm not coming after you, I'm going after your business and any assets it may have. If we can pierce any type of corporate veil, we're going to do it and come after any of the owners' assets. We are a litigious society.

Remember that the job of the insurance company is not to protect you. In the end, they need to maximize returns to the shareholders and that means do everything possible (legally) to minimize payouts. Make sure your agent is working for you.

Good luck young man.


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

I am still wondering why you are worried about a slightly higher deductible. Along with that slightly higher deductible you get substantially higher limits in a business policy.

We have a $500 deductible on our business policy which is the standard deductible for business policies and is the lowest you can go. But does your $100 deductible policy give you 2 million dollar liability for anywhere near the same price + the $400 deductible difference.

Also we have never had a problem with our insurance covering our business vehicles for personal use in 30 years.

Now lets imagine a worst case scenario, you are driving and your trailer breaks loose from the truck, goes into the other lane and hits a car head on. There is a family of 5 in the car and both parents die. Do you have enough insurance to cover this and support what is left of this family for the rest of your life, and what policy is going to cover this, the truck or the trailer or your business policy.


Insurance is there to cover you in a worst case scenario and protect your other assets, not for the normal bumps.


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## tccoggs (Dec 17, 2008)

That truck looks too good to be a work truck.

I never understand the guys that buy a loaded out 150 or Chevy SS and then use it for work.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Well she called me again to get me to make a list of the tools i have so i can giver her a value amount. Asked her again for 3rd time about needing Commercial insurance because of feedback from you guys and she said that she's 110% sure that how it's being done is the correct way. She said im more than welcome to upgrade to Commercial but i wont get new replacement, Low deductable and after hours use. Allstate also agrees and the website also says this is how it's done. Check for ya self if ya wont have it. It's in black and white text on there website in plain veiw. No small print to read. Business insurance is fine for my type of business. 

Here the part she told me to take a look at. No one believes this civerage is anygood even though 3 different sources say it is!

Also the reason i have a nice truck is because of a couple of reasons. My truck dont get used like a work truck. My trailer does. If i had a crappy work truck i would end up buying a RS4 or M3 as my second car that is even more expense. I thought i may as well get a decent truck. It's still built exactly like the work trucks but i have all the creature comforts. 

*Business Auto Enhancement *

*What makes Allstate's Business Auto Policy*

*For more information about the Business Auto Enhancement coverage features or to get a quote, call 1-888-322-3070 to reach an Allstate commercial auto insurance agent near you.*

*You can also use the "Get a Quote" feature on this website to request that an agent contact you about a quote on your business vehicles.*

*With Allstate Business Auto insurance, you get solid protection you can rely on at a competitive price.*

*As part of our approach, we have designed our standard commercial auto policy to include our Business Auto Enhancement Endorsement* which provides broadened coverage at no additional cost (available in most states Allstate serves).*


*It includes: 

Lease and Loan Gap coverage
Waiver of Subrogation
Fellow Employee Coverage
Physical Damage coverage for temporary substitute and leased autos
Personal Effects coverage
Blanket Additional Insured Protection
Liability Coverage for Subsidiary and Newly Acquired Organizations
Expanded Supplementary Payments provisions

*


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

interesting about the 'business' endorsement. May not be something my insurance company offers. 

guess I'm not really clear what the difference in termiology is between 'commercial' and 'business' as Allstate sees it. Anyone?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

72chevy4x4 said:


> interesting about the 'business' endorsement. May not be something my insurance company offers.
> 
> guess I'm not really clear what the difference in termiology is between 'commercial' and 'business' as Allstate sees it. Anyone?


 
I think that it's only avalible in certain states as well. So that could be another reason.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

BCC - just incase - 

That truck weighs about 7000 lbs so if you letter your trailer you need to keep the weight of the trailer under 3000lbs or you have to comply with USDOT rules.

(You have to comply whether it's lettered or not, but as soon as you letter it, it will only be a matter of time before you get pulled over because enforcement can spot an out of compliance trailer pretty simply)


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

72chevy4x4 said:


> interesting about the 'business' endorsement. May not be something my insurance company offers.
> 
> guess I'm not really clear what the difference in termiology is between 'commercial' and 'business' as Allstate sees it. Anyone?


I'm not real clear either but it looks valid. 

Seems to me the Allstate business may be more directed at self-employed salesmen, copy, IT repairmen, traveling nurses, etc. 

My broker(s) would advise me of it but I don't think they would be telling me its the best fit. 

I too would like to know the difference in Allastate's views as to who is a tradesman / contractor and a traveling salesman.

A factor may be several vehicles under this arrangement for the underwriter to accept it.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> BCC - just incase -
> 
> That truck weighs about 7000 lbs so if you letter your trailer you need to keep the weight of the trailer under 3000lbs or you have to comply with USDOT rules.
> 
> (You have to comply whether it's lettered or not, but as soon as you letter it, it will only be a matter of time before you get pulled over because enforcement can spot an out of compliance trailer pretty simply)


 
That reminds me Mike i need to get my truck weight with the trailer on. Truck is around the 6000lb figure if i remember correctly and i have no idea what the trailer weighs. But i thought that it was 18k gross GVRW for DOT laws? I know it's different if you travel out of state but i def aint doing that with the trailer.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I believe your truck is closer to 7200 being the crew cab version. Maybe I'm off? You can check it pretty easy in your door jam if I recall there will be a sticker?

You have to register with the DOT if its 10,000 lbs combined.

If you do have to register it, my advice would be to put the DOT stuff on the trailer and not the truck. Get the trailer in compliance with the tape, the numbers and the safety stuff, then it's only a matter of when the trailer moves instead of everytime you are driving the truck being under the watchful eye of the DOT.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> I believe your truck is closer to 7200 being the crew cab version. Maybe I'm off? You can check it pretty easy in your door jam if I recall there will be a sticker?
> 
> You have to register with the DOT if its 10,000 lbs combined.
> 
> If you do have to register it, my advice would be to put the DOT stuff on the trailer and not the truck. Get the trailer in compliance with the tape, the numbers and the safety stuff, then it's only a matter of when the trailer moves instead of everytime you are driving the truck being under the watchful eye of the DOT.


 
GVRW was 7200lb on the 09's but truck weight is around 6k lb. Im gonna have to call them by the looks of it as well. I always thought that as long as i only travel intrastate then DOT compliance is 18k lbs but if you travel interstate then it's less? but i could be wrong. Im only going from what the logistics guy at the familey buisness is saying.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Double check it but ...



> according to Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. Federal regulations define a commercial motor vehicle as any self-propelled or towed vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating, a gross combination weight rating, or a gross combination weight of 10,001 or more pounds. The regulations apply to all commercial motor vehicles traveling (intrastate) as well as between states (interstate).





> Definition of Commercial Motor Vehicle as per Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Part 390.5 for the purpose of compliance with DOT Marking Requirement 390.21:
> 
> 
> Commercial Motor Vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle:
> ...


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Double check it but ...


 
Dam these things are conflicting. This is what i just found on DOT site. Def going to have to call them.

28-5201. Definitions

(c) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of eighteen thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of intrastate commerce.

(d) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of interstate commerce.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Ok i also found this. Which make it seem that i also dont need it. I have emailed them as they dont make finding this info easy.


Which vehicles are NOT affected?

Pick-ups, even though a pickup can operate over 10,001 GVW.

471. A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length



And this. WTF USDOT do i need this or not. Make it fing clear. How hard is it?


DOT regulations only apply to vehicles crossing state lines, some states, like California and North Carolina, also have in-state commercial truck requirements.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

OK panic over guys. Reason i cant find 100% accurate info for VA is because there's no limits in the state of VA. If i left VA i would have to be DOT registered. :thumbsup:

*​*​​​


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I'm beginning to suspect you have a habit of 'discovering' things that don't exist? Maybe? Am I wrong?

USDOT is *Federal*. States can't change the minimal requirements. States can make things more strict but they can't make them more lenient.

From your states website (Virginia) -- 



> *United States Department of Transportation Number - USDOT Number*
> 
> 
> *Carriers Requiring a USDOT Number*
> ...


http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/commercial/mcs/programs/usdot/index.asp


In case now you are from West Virginia instead of Virginia - 

From West Virginia's state website



> *** Effective January 1 2003* All Intrastate operators of commercial motor vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) or gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross combination weight of 10,001 pounds or more domiciled in the following states must now secure and display a USDOT number: *Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin & Wyoming.*


Where am I confused? A number of people have said the same things to you, and you keep coming up with these 'discoveries' that supposedly make you except. 

You seem to have a lot of magical insurance regulations and DOT regulations that nobody else gets to have.

Could be just me, I don't know.


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

I am still wondering what the liability limits are on this policy.

I would be more worried about this than a $100 deductible and new car expanded protection.


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## FremontREO (Sep 30, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> I'm beginning to suspect you have a habit of 'discovering' things that don't exist? Maybe? Am I wrong?
> 
> USDOT is *Federal*. States can't change the minimal requirements. States can make things more strict but they can't make them more lenient.
> 
> ...


I had the "pleasure" of being pulled over in Minnesota by a DOT Officer and I had an empty 16' tandem axle landscape trailer and F250 Ford and was informed that I needed a DOT number-10,000lb limit. I told 'em I was visiting family and dropping the trailer off (kinda true:whistling) and had a nice conversation and he said "if I have a single axle trailer the DOT wouldn't stop me. I have 2 of them and should have took that one. He let me go! Whew. 
Anyway, I have a couple of friends that still work for Allstate and I'm going to call them on Thursday since I don't suppose anyone will be working tommorrow with our Blizzard going on.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> I'm beginning to suspect you have a habit of 'discovering' things that don't exist? Maybe? Am I wrong?
> 
> USDOT is *Federal*. States can't change the minimal requirements. States can make things more strict but they can't make them more lenient.
> 
> ...


 
As long as i only travel Intrastate mike then no DOT required because i dont cross state lines. 

I was supprised to find out my mother in law knows a lot about this. She works for the familey buisness and does a lot of the paper work and all the box vans and trucks they run none have dot numbers.

here's what it says on the paper work. 


*Virginia *

Interstate: Follows Federal Regulation Part 390.21.

Intrastate: All,for Hire, CMVs over 10,000 pounds must display the name
and address of the operating motor carrier on both sides of the power unit.

She also said that because it's a federal law they don't have to do that as a min. She said this is a common misconception with federal law that it's a required min but it's not. She's one cleaver woman so i trust her.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

FremontREO said:


> I had the "pleasure" of being pulled over in Minnesota by a DOT Officer and I had an empty 16' tandem axle landscape trailer and F250 Ford and was informed that I needed a DOT number-10,000lb limit. I told 'em I was visiting family and dropping the trailer off (kinda true:whistling) and had a nice conversation and he said "if I have a single axle trailer the DOT wouldn't stop me. I have 2 of them and should have took that one. He let me go! Whew.
> Anyway, I have a couple of friends that still work for Allstate and I'm going to call them on Thursday since I don't suppose anyone will be working tommorrow with our Blizzard going on.


 

From what i could make out last night almost every state has a different policey for max trailer weights, lengths, heights, Widths, Brakes, Hitch design, Break aways and such. It's very confuseing. This is why Allstate woman needs my trailer vin number to confirm that my trailer meet all requirements. 

Also i read some more into the Allstate insurance online and from what the website says the policy she has given is fine. Perhaps they are the only insurance company who provides this but it's fine for exactly what im asking of it. Business insurance through Allstate is fine for contractors with trailers. They also class is as Buisness/Commercial under the policey i have so it's just seems to be a different kind of Commercial insurance.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

BCConstruction said:


> As long as i only travel Intrastate mike then no DOT required because i dont cross state lines.
> 
> I was supprised to find out my mother in law knows a lot about this. She works for the familey buisness and does a lot of the paper work and all the box vans and trucks they run none have dot numbers.
> 
> ...


:laughing:

You should have your mother in law run for state legislature and have them fix your states website or change your laws so they reflect her wrong information. 

Like I said, your response doesn't suprise me now. If you asked on here what color the sky was cause you told a customer it was green and you got 10 responses that it was blue, your reply would be, my agent.. my mother in law... my friend... my dog said it was green here where I live, just so you could pretend you didn't do something wrong.

It's cool though. Keep blowing smoke my man. We all can live in our own pretend world on the internet. :thumbsup:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> :laughing:
> 
> You should have your mother in law run for state legislature and have them fix your states website or change your laws so they reflect her wrong information.
> 
> ...


Went to the DMV and the scales to day to have my truck weight without trailer and redo my registration. Just like the VA website says i dont need any type of DOT registration. Seems you are wrong Mike! It may be the way for your state but in VA it's not and in many other states it's not. Here you go call them for your self. (804) 497-7100 or even take a look at the PDF below. We have 5 Vehicles in our medical hire buisness that all are rated over 10k lbs and not one needs a DOT registration. Our familey buisness turns over millions a year and everything is done to the book and wouldnt be worth risking if we did need it. It also fully expalins why i never see any DOT numbers on any business vehicles around here. 


Here's a link to FedReg390 it has each states rules for interstate and intrastate travel in one listing. 

http://www.permitsplus.com/downloads/fedReg390.pdf


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Better call your states website and have them change it.

(And I'm not talking about your truck weighing over 10,000 lbs and requiring DOT registration numbers)

From the begining I said your truck & trailer. CMV is a commercial motor vehicle like your truck.

GCWR is Gross Conbination Weight Rating - that's your trailer attached to your truck.

It doesn't make any difference anyways, like I said, you'll reply back that your aunt's cousin slept in a Holiday Inn Express and told you that you don't need it. :thumbsup:

Like I said - carry on.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Better call your states website and have them change it.
> 
> (And I'm not talking about your truck weighing over 10,000 lbs and requiring DOT registration numbers)
> 
> ...


Mike i don't understand why you wont have it! OK you were wrong and few others were but we both learned something here. Every state is different and Federal law is not a min requirement. So far i have had VDOT tell me i don't need one, DMV tell me i don't need one, Many web sites saying i don't need one, Logistics manager for our family business saying i don't need one and even FMCSA saying i don't need one lol. But for some strange reason you think that they are all wrong? Here call the FMCSA also. 1-800-832-5660. Option number 3 if i remember correctly.

Here you go i forgot to post the FMCSA site link. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/registration-USDOT.htm


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## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

Just because a pickup truck is driven to jobsites, doesn’t mean it has to be rated commercially. It’s difficult to sometimes explain in 5 sentences or less what is in a full 500-page auto insurance rating manual.

Business rating (Class 07) is for a private passenger-type sedans or SUVs used to drive from location to location throughout the day – real estate agents, insurance brokers, architects, etc. You can carry paperwork, but no tools.

Commercial rating is, obviously, for heavy commercial trucks like tractor-trailers, dumps, etc. Not so obvious, is the grey-area pickup and van. If you are carrying tools and materials, there are two light commercial (artisan) ratings: Class 35 for driving to one job-site in the morning, staying there all day, then driving home at night. Can be stretched to two (maybe occasionally even three jobsites) in one day. Class 36 is for the foreman or job supervisor, driving to several jobsites throughout the day, going to the store to pick up supplies, back-and-forth between the architect’s office, etc. Big heavy pickups like an F350 will be a Class 44.

Even if you don’t carry tools in your pickup, but you haul a trailer that carries tools or materials, then your towing vehicle has to be rated the same like your trailer, so it should be rated Commercial. Mixed use depends on the insurer – some will allow Personal rates then adjust for part-Commercial use; some use Commercial rates, then adjust for some Personal use.

Usually, Commercial rating is cheaper than Personal. The most expensive part of insurance is for injury and time off work. A truck can cost maybe around $50,000 max. A permanently injured person who needs income-replacement and nursing care for the rest of his life can potentially cost several million. If you are driving a Commercial truck, then odds are the accident happened while you were working, which means Workers Comp will probably be footing the bill, not the insurance. Personal rates are usually more expensive, especially, if you figure that there could be children in the vehicle.

Okay, that was way more than 5 sentences.


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