# Flashing around a chimney



## Barry M

I have a family member who wants me to flash around their chimney, which was never done a few years ago when they got a new roof. I don't roof for a living but I feel comfortable doing the repair. My question is after I nail the flashing to the roof do I have to secure it to the brick? If so how do I secure it to the brick. Or will the tar behind the flashing be enough to hold it against the brick. Thanks.


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## TonyD

I'm in the same boat as you, Barry. I am not considered a "Roofer", but I can hold my own. I would also like some advice on flashing @ brickwork. Not only at the sides but along the uphill and downhill sides also.


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## River Rat Dad

The flashing at brick is always a two part system. A flashing at the roof line that runs up the brick, and a counterflashing cut in to the mortar that covers the other flashing. The two should not be fastened together to allow for movement. The counterflashing should be set at least 3/4" in to the mortor. I usually hold it in place with masonary nails and then caulk the nails and seams. There are other techniques to fasten the counterflashing as others will fill in. The masonary nails are just the easiest.


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## Grumpy

Based on your question I think it is time to call a roofer.


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## TonyD

Grumpy said:


> Based on your question I think it is time to call a roofer.


Why?


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## Barry M

Grumpy said:


> Based on your question I think it is time to call a roofer.


I knew someone would post that, and I don't blame you. I powerwash for a living and if someone was asking dumb questions about powerwashing their house, I would say leave it to a professional. So I understand but if I don't flash the chimney for him, he is going to attempt it himself and that is not a good thing trust me. He is not going to hire a pro no matter what, so I'm not taking work away from any roofers where I live. I just thought I would ask a question and it was answered good enough, thank you River Rat.


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## Grumpy

You ask why? Look at it this way, if he attempts it himself he only has himself to blame when it fails. If you do it and it fails he will blame you. If you've never done it before do you realy want to be doing it for a friend on the first job?

Pleas keep in mind that Flashings are critical to the roof. That's why we take the extra time and care to do them. Flashings are used in the areas where roofs are most prone to failure. That's why usually the most senior roofer on the crew is the one to do the flashings. IMO anyone can shingle a roof, but it takes a roofer to do flashings.

Having said all that if you still choose to try this project, this is how I would approach it for a warrantable system: First I would tear off about 1-2' of surrounding shingles. Then I would install ice shield (a must!). Next Reinstall the shingles stepped with baby tins against the brick. Finally a custom bent cap which is raggled with the mortar joint. Obviously I would grind out about 3/8 - 1/2" of the mortar joint and bend a lip on the top of the custom bent cap flashing. I would then use masonry fasteners and seal with a color match caulk rated for at least 25 years.

You can find many illistrations on the net but go to www.nrca.net and find their manual. 

Good Luck.


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## TonyD

Grumpy, Thank you for a more detailed response. I'ts really annoying to get a response like "You should call a proffesional." after posting legitamate questions in a forum that is designed to share information and techniques between contractors. 
And by the way the wording in the original question leaves it clear that he has a good understanding of roofing techniques and is just looking for additional support. 

I'd hire a power washer to roof my house if he used this site for questions. rather than a "ROOFER" that dosen't flash chimneys.

"I'ts not what you know, It's if you know where to get the answers!!"-me


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## Tom R

Amazing how quickly the 'know-it-alls' forget that they once performed some given task for the 'first time', too!! 

It's not usually the 'questions' that cause the failures, - - but the ANSWERS. :thumbsup:


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## AaronB.

Yeah, but the first time was always performed inder a journeyman or a master when I apprenticed. HUGE difference. Good luck with your flashings.


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## Tom R

AaronB. said:


> Yeah, but the first time was always performed inder a journeyman or a master when I apprenticed. HUGE difference. Good luck with your flashings.



Welp, - - the first time I did it (about 27 years ago), - - I just looked it up in a book the night before, - - then went out and did it.

And bein's no 'rocket scientist' jobs ever came up in the meantime, - - I'm still doin' it.


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## Grumpy

TonyD said:


> And by the way the wording in the original question leaves it clear that he has a good understanding of roofing techniques and is just looking for additional support.


Really? It caused me to assume the exact opposite. Funny really how two people cann read the same words but deduct totally different assumptions.



Tom R said:


> Amazing how quickly the 'know-it-alls' forget that they once performed some given task for the 'first time', too!!


Oh tommy boy give it a rest. You are no better than I am so simply stop acting.


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## Tom R

Grumpy said:


> Oh tommy boy give it a rest. You are no better than I am so simply stop acting.



Just re-arrange a few names around and you make my point. Thanks!! :thumbsup:


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## Tom R

Barry M 'n Tony,

Here's a pretty good 'how to' on chimney flashings . . . 


http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=17758


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## Grumpy

I correct myself. Better wasn't the proper word to use. I meant to say "different".


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## bmartin

Grumpy how many years experience do you have installing roofing? Not in sales or estimating but actually doing the work. And have you done enough to qualify as a senior roofer?


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## Grumpy

bmartin said:


> Grumpy how many years experience do you have installing roofing? Not in sales or estimating but actually doing the work. And have you done enough to qualify as a senior roofer?


I am a state of IL licensed unlimited roofing contractor. The process of licensure entails a lengthy exam.

I started roofing in roughly 1998 and worked hands on full time for two years until I moved into the office. That does not qualify me as a senior roofer. During the time between 2000 and 2005 I periodically worked on the roof. Since 2003, when I started my company, I have been working on the roof much more often than I'd like to admit. I dislike field work. It's not my cup of tea... that doesn't mean I haven't done it before and don't know how it's done.

I might not be a "senior" roofer (it really depends how you define the term), I never claimed to be the master, but that's only because I don't do it every day. HOWEVER I have the knowlede in my head both from hands on experience and from research/theory.

I am not the most "skilled" roofer. Infact I have said on many occasions that I would have fired myself because I admit I am somewhat clumsy. (I also have high standards) Something gets lost from my brain to my hands, primarily because I rush... however I know how to do things right so please do not call my resume into question because I CHOOSE to work the office instead of the field.


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## Brickie

Grumpy said:


> but it takes a roofer to do flashings.


I totally disagree. A competent MASON does flashings as well


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## bmartin

Grumpy I am sure your very competent. But in California you wouldn't even have the field experience required to take the test (min. 4 years field journeyman). I think it rubs people the wrong way when the first answer is call a roofer. An intelligent person with the right information could flash the Chimney and do it right the first time. It might not look the prettiest or get done the fastest but it could be done without calling a roofer. Like Tom said it isn't rocket science.


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## Barry M

I don't know who's better than who or who's more qualified or what, but I do know that Tom R was the most helpful and that's what these boards are all about. Thanks for the link Tom, it's very descriptive and easy to understand and I'm not even a rocket scientist....lol


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## Grumpy

Brickie said:


> I totally disagree. A competent MASON does flashings as well


I've never seen a mason do flashings. Infact when ever we do new construction we almost always have to make another trip back to do the flashings after the brickies are done.

Note to all: I stand behind my original answer. From the original post I was lead to believe the poster does not have the skills required to flash a chimney. Due to the critical nature of a chimney flashing I was giving the BEST advice based on the information I had at hand.


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## River Rat Dad

Grumpy says: "Then I would install ice shield (a must!)."

If the chimney is at the eve then ice shield is a great idea. If the chimney is further up the roof line, beyond the height of any existing ice shield, then the ice shield loses its purpose. If water ever actually comes in contact with that ice shield it rolls downhill to felt. In that case all one accomplishes is to move the potential leak.


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## Brickie

Grumpy said:


> I've never seen a mason do flashings. Infact when ever we do new construction we almost always have to make another trip back to do the flashings after the brickies are done.


The fact that you never seen a mason do flashing does NOT mean that it doesn't happen. In fact, it happens quite often. We do it all the time.  


http://www.maconline.org/tech/construction/chimney/chimney.html


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## Peladu

When I did my stint with masonry, we also flashed them, every time.
Yea..masons do flashing also...


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## AaronB.

River Rat Dad said:


> Grumpy says: "Then I would install ice shield (a must!)."
> 
> If the chimney is at the eve then ice shield is a great idea. If the chimney is further up the roof line, beyond the height of any existing ice shield, then the ice shield loses its purpose. If water ever actually comes in contact with that ice shield it rolls downhill to felt. In that case all one accomplishes is to move the potential leak.


I agree with some of this post, RRD.

I, however, like to shingle up to the chimney, then install the IWS on top of the lower course. This is done precisely for the condition you stated. You may never need IWS at the chimney, but I do it as a meaure against wind-driven rain.


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## AaronB.

Well if tha masons do the flashings, who does the roofing on them?

I have seen MANY people do their own flashings. Many of those many call to have them re-done. 

Good luck with your flashings.


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## Tom R

AaronB. said:


> Well if tha masons do the flashings, who does the roofing on them?
> 
> I have seen MANY people do their own flashings. Many of those many call to have them re-done.
> 
> Good luck with your flashings.



Although you're probably right, - - the original question was not 'if' he should do flashings, - - but 'how'.

He probably didn't know he was going to encounter the 'roofing police'.

Most re-do's are probably caused by people who fail, - - or even refuse to investigate the proper methods.

I seem to remember Grumpy asking about a year ago some questions about how to do his kitchen floor.

Yet I don't seem to remember anyone telling him "You're just a roofer, call in a floor guy".

Trading information seemed to be OK that day.

Is this going to be a 'how-to' or a 'why-not-to' roofing forum??


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## Brickie

AaronB. said:


> Well if tha masons do the flashings, who does the roofing on them?
> 
> I have seen MANY people do their own flashings. Many of those many call to have them re-done.
> 
> Good luck with your flashings.


Luck has nothing to do with properly installing flashing. Proper flashing installation is critical in masonry work no matter if it's a chimney, a wall, etc., One of the things that we do is chimney repair. There are some very good masons out there & a lot of hacks that have no business picking up a trowel and trying to build a chimney!


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## AaronB.

OK but still, who does the roofing work when the brickies do the chimney flashings?


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## Grumpy

Tom R said:


> I seem to remember Grumpy asking about a year ago some questions about how to do his kitchen floor.


If someone chooses to install their kitchen floor the worst that can happen is it needs to be redone. It will not cause further damage.

If someone improperly flashes a chimney it can have catastrophic results. Ceilings may need to be replaced, carpeting, hard wood flooring, furniture, electronics... These are just some of the possibilities. Wood may rot. Mold may grow. 

I'm not trying to elevate roofers above flooring installers however the roof, and especially it's flashings, protect the building and EVERYTHING in it.

If at the time I asked for advice on flooring, someone told me why not to try it myself I may have listened.


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## Tom R

Barry M said:


> I don't know who's better than who or who's more qualified or what, but I do know that Tom R was the most helpful and that's what these boards are all about. Thanks for the link Tom, it's very descriptive and easy to understand and I'm not even a rocket scientist....lol



Thanks, Barry, - - glad to be of some help.

Actually, - - I rarely even visit this roofing section anymore because of this very 'negativity' that has been so very well demonstrated once again.

'Saving' this section, though, - - are roofers like 'River Rat Dad', - - who are not only highly knowledgeable, - - but are more than willing to consistently share their wealth of information with fellow contractors.

Like you say, - - that's (supposed to be) what this board is all about.


P.S. I'm sure there are many other 'helpfuls', too, - - it's just hard NOT TO NOTICE 'River Rat Dad's' steady contributions. :thumbsup:


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## Barry M

Grumpy said:


> Note to all: I stand behind my original answer. From the original post I was lead to believe the poster does not have the skills required to flash a chimney. Due to the critical nature of a chimney flashing I was giving the BEST advice based on the information I had at hand.


LOL.... that's funny, do you know me? I don't think so because if you 
did you would know that I'm quite capable. I would think by me just asking a question on this board would give some the impression that I'm not an idiot.:no: I have done a little bit of everything over the years and I take a lot of pride in my work, so if I'm not sure about one specific thing, I ask. I understand the risks of not doing this job properly, why do you think I asked? There are risks, conseqences, and repercussion of every job we tackle, including flooring (which I've also done). I'm also working with a close friend of mine who is a licenced roofer and is going to walk me through this flashing job, he is too busy to do it himself, but he knows I'm capable. I just wanted to freshen up on flashing so when I did contact him, I would know exactly what he was talking about and I would know the right questions to ask and so forth. Again thanks to all that have been helpful.



Tom R said:


> Thanks, Barry, - - glad to be of some help.
> 
> Actually, - - I rarely even visit this roofing section anymore because of this very 'negativity' that has been so very well demonstrated once again.
> 
> 'Saving' this section, though, - - are roofers like 'River Rat Dad', - - who are not only highly knowledgeable, - - but are more than willing to consistently share their wealth of information with fellow contractors.
> 
> Like you say, - - that's (supposed to be) what this board is all about.
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm sure there are many other 'helpfuls', too, - - it's just hard NOT TO NOTICE 'River Rat Dad's' steady contributions. :thumbsup:


I agree 100%!


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## RooferJim

Its always a funny thing when the Roofing trade brings out the ego's LOL .remeber that the most common leak on a chimny is at the corners use lead flashing that you can mold around the corner, but be carful not to rip it or pinch it to cause a crease that could act as a little dam. when I was in the union we used to have to solder the corners, and make custum crickets as well. but with lead you can do good job.
And never underestimate the ingenuity of a rain drop.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## Tom R

Grumpy said:


> If someone chooses to install their kitchen floor the worst that can happen is it needs to be redone. It will not cause further damage.
> 
> If someone improperly flashes a chimney it can have catastrophic results. Ceilings may need to be replaced, carpeting, hard wood flooring, furniture, electronics... These are just some of the possibilities. Wood may rot. Mold may grow.
> 
> I'm not trying to elevate roofers above flooring installers however the roof, and especially it's flashings, protect the building and EVERYTHING in it.
> 
> If at the time I asked for advice on flooring, someone told me why not to try it myself I may have listened.



What are you, - - a democrat or something?? :laughing: 

I've never seen anybody change the subject so much.

As you very well know, - - my point is not about any (alleged) catastrophic comparisons on your Roofing-Richter-Scale, - - it's about the sharing (or with-holding) of information.

First you accuse me of acting like I'm better than someone, - - simply for answering a legitimate question, - - now you want to discuss someone 'losing the farm' over a chimney flashing that they already know is in need of repair. 

Last time I 'visited' this (roofing) forum, - - you told me my opinions/knowledge didn't count, - - because I'm not a full-time roofer.

With 27 years in the home re-modeling business, - - I'll just say I've done my share of roofs, - - and leave it at that.

Sometimes I find it best just to ROLL MY EYES!!  

Anyway, here's a couple 'a side-notes for ya' . . . 

A. I'll venture to guess the chimney's ALREADY leaking, that's why it's being discussed.  

B. I'll also venture to guess if it's still leaking AFTER the repair, SOMEONE WILL NOTICE. :shifty: 

C. I'll even further venture to guess that Barry will FIX IT CORRECTLY and we'll never have to broach this ill-begotten subject again. :no:


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## Grumpy

TomR, Hey, I'm not changing the subject. You brought up flooring. Did you forget? Please reread your posts, if so.



Barry M said:


> LOL.... that's funny, do you know me? I don't think so because if you
> did you would know that I'm quite capable. I would think by me just asking a question on this board would give some the impression that I'm not an idiot.:no: I have done a little bit of everything over the years and I take a lot of pride in my work, so if I'm not sure about one specific thing, I ask. I understand the risks of not doing this job properly, why do you think I asked? There are risks, conseqences, and repercussion of every job we tackle, including flooring (which I've also done). I'm also working with a close friend of mine who is a licenced roofer and is going to walk me through this flashing job, he is too busy to do it himself, but he knows I'm capable. I just wanted to freshen up on flashing so when I did contact him, I would know exactly what he was talking about and I would know the right questions to ask and so forth. Again thanks to all that have been helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree 100%!


I don't know you. I only know what you wrote. From what you wrote, in your original post, it doesn't seem as if you are capable. If you are capable, I apoligize, but that capability didn't carry through with your words in the original post. Based on the information I had at the time, I feel I gave the BEST advice I could. Having further discussion I see you think you are capable. Good luck.


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## Tom R

Grumpy said:


> TomR, Hey, I'm not changing the subject. You brought up flooring. Did you forget?



Forget??

I forget nothing.

I'll bring this issue up again for you next time you have a question on any subject other than roofing. :thumbsup:


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## Peladu

Um, no....this issue is to NEVER be talked about again.


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## Tom R

Peladu said:


> Um, no....this issue is to NEVER be talked about again.



Aaahh, - - TECHNICALITY . . . :shifty:


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## Grumpy

Tom R said:


> Forget??
> 
> I forget nothing.
> 
> I'll bring this issue up again for you next time you have a question on any subject other than roofing. :thumbsup:


That's great! I am so pleased that you have taken such an interest in my life when I can really care less about you or what you do. I don't even care enough to allow you to rile me up. What you have to say I basically consider to be worthless. It's been that way for quite some time. 

TomR, I simply do not care one way or the other.


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## Tom R

Grumpy said:


> TomR, I simply do not care one way or the other.



My point exactly.


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## minnesotaroofin

I am one for Geocell - had problems keeping license plate light in my old 86 ford due to rust. sealed it up with geocell 6 years ago rust and all still holding - not to mmention my plexiglass window the compressor got shoved through back side 8 years ago still in place. Have'nt had to use it on my 02 chev yet but have a crack in front window maybee?


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## AaronB.

Grumpy said:


> I don't think Aaron said he uses one piece systems. Or did I miss it? I've seen Aaron's metal work with my own eyes and never seen a one piece flashing.
> 
> I even think Aaron was the one who previously mentioned the expansion contractoion issues involved with a one piece flashing, or maybe that was Maj.


This is correct, Grumpy, as you know, I like to run my steps up and into the reglet like in the Slater's Handbook. Each course gets a step, and each step is into the reglet. The rear pan is also a single separate piece. I like to lock and solder whenever possible, so that I do not have problems at the corners. :thumbsup:


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## johnk

*cut into mortar*

i would grind a straight line in the mortar for counterflashing and bond and fill it in with mortar in a tube.


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## FlashingMaster5

AaronB. said:


> I agree with some of this post, RRD.
> 
> I, however, like to shingle up to the chimney, then install the IWS on top of the lower course. This is done precisely for the condition you stated. You may never need IWS at the chimney, but I do it as a meaure against wind-driven rain.


I agree. This keeps the water from being able to track on to the felt.


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## FlashingMaster5

AaronB. said:


> The major issue with the single piece running parallel with the roof edge is this...if you grind through the face of the brick, they can absorb water and spall.


Not if you install your sealant into the Reglit cut before you install the counter flashing. We use 100% silicone, NEVER laytex.


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## FlashingMaster5

apkole said:


> Very interesting thread!
> 
> A local chimney company uses our services for chimney flashing. They readily admit that their brickies know mortar and brick, but are not as skilled when it comes to metal work and shingles. The brickies' time and resources are better spent doing what they do best. We get to do what we do best.
> 
> Our companies refer each other's customers for roofing and chimney services, knowing that in doing so, the customer will get timely, professional and excellent service.
> 
> AND . . . . the bonus is another great lead generating machine, which locates pre-qualified buyers. Pretty neat.
> 
> For my fellow roofers, a little nugget . . . make friends with your local chimney builder.
> 
> We DO "wrap" our chimneys with I/W as a backup to our metal flashing systems.
> 
> We do cut the masonry joints, using a classic flashing system.
> 
> ??? How many of us are snapping a chalk line the length of the chimeny and using one piece flashing instead of the "stepped" counter flashing??
> Any challenges with this system? Preferences? Appearance factor?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Andy


That is the only way we will flash a chimney. We have been doing it this way for 15 years, never had a problem. P.S. Battle Creek, MI "A" Water Tight Roofing Co.


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## FlashingMaster5

Tom R said:


> Amazing how quickly the 'know-it-alls' forget that they once performed some given task for the 'first time', too!!
> 
> It's not usually the 'questions' that cause the failures, - - but the ANSWERS. :thumbsup:


Especially.


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## RooferJim

I agree with Aaron, it is better not to cut your counter through the brick although in some areas it is common. Its better to use a urethene sealant like Dymonic to a colour to match the mortor rather than cheap silicone. It is also critical to make sure you wrap your corners on your base flashing, we usually always use lead but on some high end jobs its a locked and solderd corner. The counterflashing is held in friction fit by lead wedges "but you already knew that". most carperters and masons will screw up flashing work and thats why chimney reflashing is great business.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> Especially when you are not allowed to direct them to a site that could help.


Well Maybe.


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## FlashingMaster5

RooferJim said:


> I agree with Aaron, it is better not to cut your counter through the brick although in some areas it is common. Its better to use a urethene sealant like Dymonic to a colour to match the mortor rather than cheap silicone. It is also critical to make sure you wrap your corners on your base flashing, we usually always use lead but on some high end jobs its a locked and solderd corner. The counterflashing is held in friction fit by lead wedges "but you already knew that". most carperters and masons will screw up flashing work and thats why chimney reflashing is great business.
> 
> RooferJim
> www.jbennetteroofing.com


It keeps us very busy. There seem to be a variety of methods to flashing a chimney. I like ours best because it is water tight and looks nice.


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## Baron

I'd like to mention that aluminum and the alkalies in mortar are not friends and that the use of aluminum for chimney flashing is not the correct product for that application.

The alkalis present in fresh mortar will attack aluminum. Thus, aluminum should not be used as a flashing material in brick masonry. Also when ever mortar gets wet again it releases these alkalies.

Be sure that any aluminum you use is fully coated with and unbroken protected layer with a product design for resisting these alkali.


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## FlashingMaster5

Baron said:


> I'd like to mention that aluminum and the alkalies in mortar are not friends and that the use of aluminum for chimney flashing is not the correct product for that application.
> 
> The alkalis present in fresh mortar will attack aluminum. Thus, aluminum should not be used as a flashing material in brick masonry. Also when ever mortar gets wet again it releases these alkalies.
> 
> Be sure that any aluminum you use is fully coated with and unbroken protected layer with a product design for resisting these alkali.


Use what you want. I could care less what material You use.


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## FlashingMaster5

Baron said:


> I'd like to mention that aluminum and the alkalies in mortar are not friends and that the use of aluminum for chimney flashing is not the correct product for that application.
> 
> The alkalis present in fresh mortar will attack aluminum. Thus, aluminum should not be used as a flashing material in brick masonry. Also when ever mortar gets wet again it releases these alkalies.
> 
> Be sure that any aluminum you use is fully coated with and unbroken protected layer with a product design for resisting these alkali.


It would help if you knew what you were talking about.


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## katoman

As per the building code, alluminum for flashing must be 19 gauge. You had mentioned you use 22 or 24 gauge. This is another example that what you are doing will never pass inspection.

Why not call the building inspector on your next job and post your clearance certificate? That would prove you are correct.:laughing:


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## Baron

The Brick Industry Association Technical Note 7A does not recommend using aluminum flashing. It states: "The caustic alkalis present in fresh, unhardened mortar will attack aluminum. Although dry, seasoned mortar will not affect aluminum, corrosion can again occur if the adjacent mortar becomes wet. Aluminum should not be used as a flashing material in brick masonry construction."

That is what I am talking about.
Aluminum flashing is not for chimneys. Do not use it.


I suppose if you can keep the chimney from getting wet you are all set.


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## katoman

Baron said:


> The Brick Industry Association Technical Note 7A does not recommend using aluminum flashing. It states: "The caustic alkalis present in fresh, unhardened mortar will attack aluminum. Although dry, seasoned mortar will not affect aluminum, corrosion can again occur if the adjacent mortar becomes wet. Aluminum should not be used as a flashing material in brick masonry construction."
> 
> That is what I am talking about.
> Aluminum flashing is not for chimneys. Do not use it.
> 
> 
> I suppose if you can keep the chimney from getting wet you are all set.


Totally agree. I was quoting flashing thickness requirement. So the OP is not using the correct thickness either. His 'bender' probably won't bend the heavier gauge.


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## Baron

FlashingMaster5 said:


> It would help if you knew what you were talking about.


http://www.masonrymagazine.com/10-06/chimneysb1.html
materials for chimney flashing.

Also in my brick and masonry handbook where ever that might be doesn't suggest the using of galvanized or plated steel, unless it is really thick coating, or especially not aluminum under any circumstances. 

Copper, lead or stainless steel are the recommended materials for chimney flashing from my knowledge, so you guys thrilled with your new techniques and ideas about saving time and money are not serving your customers with the best knowledge available unless mortar just started become less alkaline and water stopped coming out of the sky.

I'm not trying to be a wise butt, just trying to keep you abreast of current knowledge as written from a brick layers tech sheet based on the last couple century's of experience from those craftsman. I'm just relaying to you the info.


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## Baron

katoman said:


> Totally agree. I was quoting flashing thickness requirement. So the OP is not using the correct thickness either. His 'bender' probably won't bend the heavier gauge.


At least some one knows what I'm talking about.


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## Baron

FlashingMaster5 said:


> Use what you want. I could care less what material You use.



As one contractor to another; the fact that you did such neat work proves you care.....the fact that you need to be a wise guy before researching my technical info proves I bruised your pride....you do care.

Look up the info in a brick handbook or off the brick and masonry info on the net and you will find the three metals for chimney flashing are lead, copper or stainless steel and that everything else has a limited life expectancy due to the alkali bleeding from mortar.

If you are posting your fine work to be critiqued, and not just to pat yourself on the back, then my critique was to inform...not to cheer lead.


----------



## twill59

I have heard and read about this, but I have only seen a premature failure once---it was on an old chimney and we used .019. I think that it had the old style combination of mortar/ brick ( one soft one hard-- more lime in the brick?)

Anyway we've been using aluminum, .024 painted for years w/ no issues. I have seen our work from 20 yrs. ago holding up just fine.

Face it, these cheap asphalt shingles don't deserve better flashing (copper) and if I was putting on something that would truly last 30 years or more, I would not use aluminum anyway


----------



## FlashingMaster5

genecarp said:


> Whats with the tarred in cricket, GMOD


It's not a cricket. It is a saddle.


----------



## Tom Struble

there ain't nothing wrong with that...don't leak..looks good it ain't copper lead or gold but there's nothing ''wrong'' with that


----------



## Tom Struble

does anyone consider the reason the ''old time'' guys did it that way is because they didn't have diamond blades in angle grinders?


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> This allows our step flashing to be installed at a 90 degree angle to the roof.


Now we have a nice surface to install our counter flashing to.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> Now we have a nice surface to install our counter flashing to.


I will be the first to admit, the quality of workmanship starts with the quality of person doing the work.


----------



## katoman

That is a good example of when to cut. Looks good, I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

But that's thick stone, not brick. Still disagree with cutting brick.

Still waiting for that quote.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not trying to bust your ***** here. It's just if my inspector saw that (the cutting of brick) I know he would make me change it.

Like I said before, it's not a question of whether it will leak. It's a question of compliance.


----------



## Tom Struble

Flash i do think you should come up with an idea to extend the flasing past the corners like Frank and others have suggested

i know ive shown you these before but see how extending the flashing past the corners diricts the majority of water away from these more vulnerable to flowing water areas

the key is to interlock the corners


----------



## FlashingMaster5

Baron said:


> The Brick Industry Association Technical Note 7A does not recommend using aluminum flashing. It states: "The caustic alkalis present in fresh, unhardened mortar will attack aluminum. Although dry, seasoned mortar will not affect aluminum, corrosion can again occur if the adjacent mortar becomes wet. Aluminum should not be used as a flashing material in brick masonry construction."
> 
> That is what I am talking about.
> Aluminum flashing is not for chimneys. Do not use it.
> 
> 
> I suppose if you can keep the chimney from getting wet you are all set.


As a mater of fact we do seal the chimney with "A" Water Tight Chimney Sealer, don't you?.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> As a mater of fact we do seal the chimney with "A" Water Tight Chimney Sealer, don't you?.


It just keeps getting better.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> It just keeps getting better.


I could go on and on, and I think I will:laughing:


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> I could go on and on, and I think I will:laughing:


All I had to do is get my "Want To" fixed.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> All I had to do is get my "Want To" fixed.


This one turned out very nice.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> Flash i do think you should come up with an idea to extend the flasing past the corners like Frank and others have suggested
> 
> i know ive shown you these before but see how extending the flashing past the corners diricts the majority of water away from these more vulnerable to flowing water areas
> 
> the key is to interlock the corners


I'll have to try that. How would I interlock the corners on a chimney?


----------



## Tom Struble

FlashingMaster5 said:


> I'll have to try that. How would I interlock the corners on a chimney?


 
how the hell do i know....im a sider not a roofer damit:w00t:


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> does anyone consider the reason the ''old time'' guys did it that way is because they didn't have diamond blades in angle grinders?


I use to step counter flash all my chimneys. I think they were so use to doing it a certin way the thought never crossed their mind. I know I never thought there was another way to flash a chimney. Then one day I saw this method on a chimney. I just liked the clean lines. I think some of the old timers would have to if it were brought to their attention.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> how the hell do i know....im a sider not a roofer damit:w00t:


For not being a roofer, you fake it prety good.:notworthy


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> how the hell do i know....im a sider not a roofer damit:w00t:


Maybe we can compare notes on siding sometime?


----------



## Tom Struble

now your scarin me:shutup:


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> now your scarein me:shutup:


Not at all. I just like to see other professionals work. Like English and his lead flashing, very impressive. I have to admit the one I admire the most is the copper valley behind the chimney.


----------



## twill59

Flash 5-- good stuff. I like it and it looks like our stuff.

however a CRICKET is a half SADDLE 

A cricket is what is behind a chimney and has 2 valleys. A saddle has 4 valleys like a breezeway, but is most commonly regarded as a flat roof detail


nwiroofleaksandrepairs.com


----------



## FlashingMaster5

twill59 said:


> Flash 5-- good stuff. I like it and it looks like our stuff.
> 
> however a CRICKET is a half SADDLE
> 
> A cricket is what is behind a chimney and has 2 valleys. A saddle has 4 valleys like a breezeway, but is most commonly regarded as a flat roof detail
> 
> 
> nwiroofleaksandrepairs.com


A cricket is installed at the wall cut at a 45 degree angle to devert the water away a corner. A saddle is behind the chimney with two valleys. Look up "Roofing Saddle" on your computer, see what you get. GOOGLE


----------



## leakfree

Here is a site that has both definitions. my.execpc.com/~cudahyrf/roof.
I have used both cricket and saddle interchangeably. 
However, by definition a cricket is a descriptive term used on a steep roof system and a saddle is a descriptive term used on a flat roof system. 

Also, In your videos flash. It appears that someone is applying caulk to the back of the counterflashing. The roof and chimney move at different rates. But I'm guessing that you already knew that. 

You are marketing a product that can only bend counter flashing if the counter flashing is cut into the chimney. No wonder you don't step flash anymore. How did you install the counter flashing in chimney facades before you invented your chimney brake?


----------



## FlashingMaster5

leakfree said:


> Here is a site that has both definitions. my.execpc.com/~cudahyrf/roof.
> I have used both cricket and saddle interchangeably.
> However, by definition a cricket is a descriptive term used on a steep roof system and a saddle is a descriptive term used on a flat roof system.
> 
> Also, In your videos flash. It appears that someone is applying caulk to the back of the counterflashing. The roof and chimney move at different rates. But I'm guessing that you already knew that.
> 
> You are marketing a product that can only bend counter flashing if the counter flashing is cut into the chimney. No wonder you don't step flash anymore. How did you install the counter flashing in chimney facades before you invented your chimney brake?


You go to this site and see for yourself.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DELA_enUS323US300&q=roof+saddle


----------



## Tom Struble

i don't see where his counter is attached to the roof,so whats your point?


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> i don't see where his counter is attached to the roof,so whats your point?


It's not Tom. You know how we install. He does'nt have anything better to do than pick my work apart. I will not mention anything about you know what. Last time I did the monotor eliminated my thread. I will just let him figure out how get the answer. SIGNITURE!


----------



## twill59

I'll double check my NRCA books. That is the only definition I will use


----------



## FlashingMaster5

twill59 said:


> I'll double check my NRCA books. That is the only definition I will use


Good for you. That should answer your question.


----------



## leakfree

I didn't say the counter flashing was attached to the roof. 
Are you referring to my earlier post?----- "Also, In your videos flash. It appears that someone is applying caulk to the back of the counterflashing. The roof and chimney move at different rates. But I'm guessing that you already knew that. "-----

There are 3 videos on youtube from stealth chimney flashing. This one clearly shows them installing the counterflashing with silicone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCta1vYK4w

You still haven't answered my question.
1. Why do you put adheasive on the back of the counterflashing. 

Is it because the counterflashing will fall out of the reglet because the reglet is only 5/8 and a straight bend.

If you don't want anyone to critique your work then don't post anything on the internet.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

leakfree said:


> I didn't say the counter flashing was attached to the roof.
> Are you referring to my earlier post?----- "Also, In your videos flash. It appears that someone is applying caulk to the back of the counterflashing. The roof and chimney move at different rates. But I'm guessing that you already knew that. "-----
> 
> There are 3 videos on youtube from stealth chimney flashing. This one clearly shows them installing the counterflashing with silicone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCta1vYK4w
> 
> You still haven't answered my question.
> 1. Why do you put adheasive on the back of the counterflashing.
> 
> Is it because the counterflashing will fall out of the reglet because the reglet is only 5/8 and a straight bend.
> 
> If you don't want anyone to critique your work then don't post anything on the internet.


And if you do not tuck point your step counter flashing, it will fall out. The material we use is flexable to move with the expansion and contraction of the chimney as it relates to the roof.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> And if you do not tuck point your step counter flashing, it will fall out. The material we use is flexable to move with the expansion and contraction of the chimney as it relates to the roof.


I do expect a certin amount of criticism and acceptance. I would prefer the criticism to come from someone who knows the difference between a cricket and a saddle.


----------



## katoman

Flash - try Dymonic instead of silicone. It remains flexible. Made by Dow Corning. Typically used in high rise construction. This is all I'll use. Comes in many colours. And comes in sausage tubes, so you can cut any size for the bead.

:thumbsup:


----------



## FlashingMaster5

katoman said:


> Flash - try Dymonic instead of silicone. It remains flexible. Made by Dow Corning. Typically used in high rise construction. This is all I'll use. Comes in many colours. And comes in sausage tubes, so you can cut any size for the bead.
> 
> :thumbsup:


I would be glad to try it. Do you right off hand who carries it? ABC?


----------



## katoman

I've seen people in saddles, dogs in saddles, but never a cricket :laughing:


----------



## FlashingMaster5

katoman said:


> I've seen people in saddles, dogs in saddles, but never a cricket :laughing:


I once I saw Jimini cricket in a saddle.


----------



## leakfree

FlashingMaster5 said:


> And if you do not tuck point your step counter flashing, it will fall out. The material we use is flexable to move with the expansion and contraction of the chimney as it relates to the roof.


How is it going to expand and contract when the counterflashing has silicone on both the step flashing and chimney? In this manner it is acting as a monolith (one unit) instead of acting independently. 

On my counterflashing piece I have always use at least 3/4 inch reglet reverse folded at least 1/2 inch. This acts as a spring. Then I tuck point. 
I never put anything on the back of my counterflashing to help it "stick" to the chimney. Frankly, I don't know of anyone that does. 

Then again...everyone standards are different.


----------



## katoman

FlashingMaster5 said:


> I once I saw Jimini cricket in a saddle.


I stand corrected.

Seriously thought, try a tube of the Dymonic, think you'll like it.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

leakfree said:


> How is it going to expand and contract when the counterflashing has silicone on both the step flashing and chimney? In this manner it is acting as a monolith (one unit) instead of acting independently.
> 
> On my counterflashing piece I have always use at least 3/4 inch reglet reverse folded at least 1/2 inch. This acts as a spring. Then I tuck point.
> I never put anything on the back of my counterflashing to help it "stick" to the chimney. Frankly, I don't know of anyone that does.
> 
> Then again...everyone standards are different.


You do now.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

katoman said:


> I stand corrected.
> 
> Seriously thought, try a tube of the Dymonic, think you'll like it.


Can Dymonic be used on nail heads, like the last cover cap on the ridge, without harming the shingles?


----------



## seeyou

FlashingMaster5 said:


> I would prefer the criticism to come from someone who knows the difference between a cricket and a saddle.


I suspect the difference depends on where you're from. Around here the terms are used interchangeably and I can't find any indisputable reference to back up or deny your definitions. But I would hardly use your criteria to judge whether or not someone's criticism holds water or not.


----------



## katoman

FlashingMaster5 said:


> Can Dymonic be used on nail heads, like the last cover cap on the ridge, without harming the shingles?


I have not used it for roof nails, you could check with Dow Corning. I usually use roofing tar for nail heads.

But for your flashing I feel the dymonic would be much better than the silicone. And if you are super fussy, you could colour match :thumbup:


----------



## katoman

4 seasons said:


> I agree with Kato man, about the cricket debate. I always considered the area behind a chimney to be a Jiminy Cricket. Holy crap this thread has been entertaining to read!!!! I have been laughing my ass off reading it.
> :blink::shutup::notworthy:w00t: <-------- had to get that out of my system


Why you laugh? We're as serious as a heart attack here.


----------



## 4 seasons

Instead a cricket....... how about a frick-it?:whistling


----------



## leakfree

tomstruble said:


> why is it such an issue?I'm sure he guarantees his work i can understand you not buying into his system,but I'm sure you know its to secure the counter


Because in his signature "Learn How To Flash Chimneys The Right Way!" is clearly misleading. Well, to me anyway. Will it work? It does for Flash. For me, the simple answer is NO. Not yesturday, today or tomorrow. My main hang up is the counterflashing. Gooping silicone on the back of the counterflashing and tuckpointing with silicone and calling it done is not acceptable. 
When I first started roofing I was taught to never rely on caulking to: 1. make anything waterproof and 2. To never use it as glue. 
Flash uses the caulk on the back of the counterflashing to hold it in place. Because if he would ONLY tuckpoint the counterflashing it would fall out. 
This to me is a sign of poor workmanship.

The average homeowner knows nothing about chimney flashing. To the average homeowner Flashes end product looks good. I'm not saying that it is or isn't. Flash still hasn't said why he goops the caulking on the back the counter flashing. I'm not a decoder or clairvoyant so please simple english, spanish, or german would suffice. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tom Struble

ok fair enough:thumbsup:


----------



## seeyou

*Saddle or Cricket?*










OK. Whada you guys call that?


----------



## Tom Struble

i don't know but it'd gonna need one hell of a scupper:blink:

wait scupper or leader head?:shutup:


----------



## 4 seasons

Flash or any other guy using this method, could just use a small coil of a like metal to pinch the metal inside the riglet. "brickies" do the same thing with a little roll of lead which pinches the flashing in places, and then they tuckpoint it in place. Flash also stated that he slightly over bends the metal so it hugs the step flashings. 

Using a silicone does not make the flashings and the counterflashing a monolith, as was stated in this thread. In my opinion at least. Most silicones are pliable. My guess is that it is being used as a preventitive measure.


----------



## 4 seasons

If it had to be one of the aformentioned, then that would have to be a saddle.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

seeyou said:


> OK. Whada you guys call that?


Two dormers and a cricket. If one dormer was centered on the chimney and it's rake edge ran to the outside corners of the chimney, and the ridge ran to the roof, it would be a saddle.


----------



## katoman

Yes, I would call that a saddle also.


----------



## seeyou

*saddle or cricket?*

OK, that's 2 for saddle and 1 for cricket.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

leakfree said:


> Because in his signature "Learn How To Flash Chimneys The Right Way!" is clearly misleading. Well, to me anyway. Will it work? It does for Flash. For me, the simple answer is NO. Not yesturday, today or tomorrow. My main hang up is the counterflashing. Gooping silicone on the back of the counterflashing and tuckpointing with silicone and calling it done is not acceptable.
> When I first started roofing I was taught to never rely on caulking to: 1. make anything waterproof and 2. To never use it as glue.
> Flash uses the caulk on the back of the counterflashing to hold it in place. Because if he would ONLY tuckpoint the counterflashing it would fall out.
> This to me is a sign of poor workmanship.
> 
> The average homeowner knows nothing about chimney flashing. To the average homeowner Flashes end product looks good. I'm not saying that it is or isn't. Flash still hasn't said why he goops the caulking on the back the counter flashing. I'm not a decoder or clairvoyant so please simple english, spanish, or german would suffice. :thumbsup:


I could realy care less what you think.


----------



## seeyou

FlashingMaster5 said:


> Two dormers and a cricket. If one dormer was centered on the chimney and it's rake edge ran to the outside corners of the chimney, and the ridge ran to the roof, it would be a saddle.


To clarify: That's a brick wall with two gables terminating into it with a "water shedding device" between the two gables and the wall. What do you call the "water shedding device"?


----------



## 4 seasons

Definately a saddle. Ok....... now that is 3 for saddle right. RIGHT!!! arrgggghhhhh:furious: Please excuse that little outburst.:jester:


----------



## katoman

Post 109, third picture is a cricket.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

4 seasons said:


> Definately a saddle. Ok....... now that is 3 for saddle right. RIGHT!!! arrgggghhhhh:furious: Please excuse that little outburst.:jester:


Yes please.


----------



## loneframer

seeyou said:


> OK. Whada you guys call that?


 A dual valley facet


----------



## dakzaag

Well, you guys have certainly been having fun. Since personal experience is anecdotal at best, here are a few links that do a fairly decent job of explaining the flashing process. 

http://www.gobrick.com/BIA/technotes/technote.htm

You will have to scroll down to the flashing section. This article specifically defines a cricket. I can't say that the author was too concerned about the proper term, so maybe that again is just anecdotal.

http://www.maconline.org/tech/design/fireplace1/chimneyd/chimneyd.html

No definitions are given for the cricket/saddle but a pretty detailed description of the intersection from the roof to the chimney is provided. One key phrase I noticed is the cooperation required between two trades at this critical juncture. 

Perhaps these two sources are not authoratative enough for you guys, but they both pull plenty of weight in the masonry industry. Some really interesting pricing information on the MAC site if your interested.


----------



## dakzaag

The sketchup of two ridges butting up to a chimney is really not relevant. The area would receive one peak in almost any construction scenario. The chimney would have to be over 15 feet wide to justify two seperate ridges and then it would still be without function.


This thread has presented some pretty interesting observations, personally I would not cut brick to get the clean line for flashing. Both articles I pointed out above show step flashing for the proper method regardless if it is new construction or a reroof. Full depth stone would probably be more forgiving of a cut into the face. To be effective I would suggest the cut needs to be about 1.5 inches deep.


----------



## katoman

But the question is why would you not cut the brick? I'm looking for hard evidence that it would or would not harm the brick.


----------



## dakzaag

I wouldn't cut the brick because;

A. Not necessary, the proper placement is in the mortar joint which is easier to remove and replace than cutting the brick. 

B. Most modern brick have holes in them which will likely be compromised with the cut. Once water has an opening into the holes, it is only a matter of time before the water starts destroying the brick. In the bed joint, the holes are filled with mortar, so any water has to penetrate the remaining mortar in the brick holes. Solid brick are a little more forgiving, but not nearly as common as face brick. 

I am not saying the cut is wrong per se, but I will follow the pattern that I see consistanly holding up over time. 

I have seen 40 year old aluminum step flashing looking as good as new on chimneys. All the older stuff I work on is step flashed. Galvanized doesn't last worth a crap. Lead, copper and aluminum often outlast the cheap brick that were used by builders/owners trying to cut costs.


----------



## Tom Struble

now that's reasonable,:thumbsup:
no reason to call out people here that have been successful the way they approach their work,as long as it works,they guarantee it i have no problems with it,none of us here know everything and the more im on here the more i realize that


----------



## genecarp

Wow, you boys been busy, on the cricket saddle bull****, i dont care what the books say, if i ask my guys to frame a saddle behind that chimney, they are going to ask, "WESTERN OR ENGLISH, GMOD

http://house-detectives.us/images/stories/cricket.jpg


----------



## Slyfox

Why use metal at all when the shingles will do.


----------



## Tom Struble

thanks Sly:thumbsup:

see what i mean:shutup:


----------



## seeyou

katoman said:


> But the question is why would you not cut the brick? I'm looking for hard evidence that it would or would not harm the brick.


Of course it harms the brick. There's a diamond blade cut through it. 

Seriously, though, I've seen the straight line method used on steep roofs and there are often small triangles created by the reglet and they can and do break off. More of a cosmetic issue, but an issue all the same. Flashoneway seems to only do 5/12 roofs, so he may not have encountered this problem.


----------



## seeyou

Slyfox said:


> Why use metal at all when the shingles will do.


Doesn't look like there's enough tar smeared on there to me.


----------



## seeyou

dakzaag said:


> Galvanized doesn't last worth a crap.


I see a lot of 60-80 year old galvanized that was back painted before installation and had been maintained. I've got a couple 150+ year old terne roofs that I maintain and have been taken care of their whole life, but that's the secret: maintenance.


----------



## Tom Struble

yes,back painted,i have some old building books from the early 1900s that recomended all flashing be painted even copper


----------



## FlashingMaster5

Slyfox said:


> Why use metal at all when the shingles will do.


Yea, we repair this same type of work all the time.


----------



## twill59

*From the NRCA Roofing & Waterproofing Manual 5 th Edition:

Cricket:​*​​​​a relatively small area of a roof constructed to divert water from a horizontal intersection of the roof with a​
chimney, wall, expansion joint or other projection. (see Saddle.)

*Saddle:​*​​​​a small tapered/sloped roof area structure that helps to channel surface water to drains. Frequently located
in a valley. A saddle is often constructed like a small hip roof or pyramid with a diamond-shaped base. (see​
Cricket.)


----------



## FlashingMaster5

twill59 said:


> *From the NRCA Roofing & Waterproofing Manual 5 th Edition:​*
> 
> 
> 
> *Cricket: *
> ​​a relatively small area of a roof constructed to divert water from a horizontal intersection of the roof with a
> chimney, wall, expansion joint or other projection. (see Saddle.)​
> 
> 
> *Saddle: *​
> 
> ​​a small tapered/sloped roof area structure that helps to channel surface water to drains. Frequently located​
> in a valley. A saddle is often constructed like a small hip roof or pyramid with a diamond-shaped base. (see​​​
> Cricket.)​


Thank you. Exactly what I have said all along.​


----------



## Tom Struble

:yawn:this still goin on? :wheelchair:


----------



## Slyfox

Saddle?








I re-roofed this house acouple months ago, it was leaking like crazy in a few spots including from this metal saddle.
There was lumber underneath with sheathing and I just ripped the metal out and shingled it.
Should add, it did not leak because it was all metal, it leaked because it was installed poorly.

Go green?








or just skip flashing and siding, etc.








The home owners had been living in this home for 7 years when they called me about a leak.


----------



## Tom Struble

lol ....ooppss:thumbup:


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> :yawn:this still goin on? :wheelchair:


That's what I ment "Like a Dog on a bone"


----------



## twill59

YUP, that is a saddle Sly.

usually goes behind the chimlee over by the facial boards, next to the what's a mahoochitz which is connected to the thing a majib. Some have baby tins too!


----------



## 4 seasons

I would have to say that that hideous metal contraption is a cricket. But whatever, as long as we all think we know what we are talking about.:thumbsup:


----------



## Slyfox

I hate to toss another wrench into the spokes here, but, I was looking at a site I googled called AllExperts - roofing saddle and there's a roofer on there that said they are also known as (In the Bay Area, CA, we call that a hog valley or a dead valley.)

I was taught,
1. Cricket is a one sided piece of roof that diverts water away from the back of a chimney, wall, etc.
2. Saddle is two sided sloped roof that join together behind a chimney or wall structure creating two valley's for shedding water.
3. Dead valley is a one piece low slope form of a cricket with very restricted drainage.
4. Hog valley is something Boss Hog from the dukes of hazard would call his ranch.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

Slyfox said:


> I hate to toss another wrench into the spokes here, but, I was looking at a site I googled called AllExperts - roofing saddle and there's a roofer on there that said they are also known as (In the Bay Area, CA, we call that a hog valley or a dead valley.)
> 
> I was taught,
> 1. Cricket is a one sided piece of roof that diverts water away from the back of a chimney, wall, etc.
> 2. Saddle is two sided sloped roof that join together behind a chimney or wall structure creating two valley's for shedding water.
> 3. Dead valley is a one piece low slope form of a cricket with very restricted drainage.
> 4. Hog valley is something Boss Hog from the dukes of hazard would call his ranch.


I agree on all points.


----------



## Tom Struble

well i dunno... that metal cricket in that pic does look like a saddle from that angle:blink:


----------



## FlashingMaster5

tomstruble said:


> well i dunno... that metal cricket in that pic does look like a saddle from that angle:blink:


It is. What they do not seem to get is, the shape. A saddle is called a saddle because it is shaped like a saddle.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

*This is a Cricket!*

Please visit this site to see what a cricket is.

http://www.cell-crete.com/services/crickets.asp


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> Please visit this site to see what a cricket is.
> 
> http://www.cell-crete.com/services/crickets.asp


This is a saddle.


----------



## FlashingMaster5

*SADDLE or a CRICKET?*



tomstruble said:


> well i dunno... that metal cricket in that pic does look like a saddle from that angle:blink:


Hi Tom, you think the last one was good. OK, guys what would you call this?


----------



## FlashingMaster5

FlashingMaster5 said:


> Hi Tom, you think the last one was good. OK, guys what would you call this?


For those of you who say one thing and do something else, you might call this a "Hipacricket":laughing:


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## BamBamm5144

I would call that a horrible design.

Anyways, how long is thread going to go on. The last 150 posts seem to have no value besides the difference between a cricket and a saddle.


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## Tom Struble

the english roofers i just found out call them ''soakers''


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## twill59

I would call that a chimney coming through the roof.......... But HEY! WhaddIno?


But to go along, to get along, I would call it a chimlee and that picture of a cricket that was labeled a saddle, I would call it a "saddle" too.

Bam Bam-- this thread means more than the difference between a saddle and a cricket. It confirms the public opinion of roofers as idiots 

google that


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## Tom Struble

no worse than the pizza thread:shifty:


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## twill59

tomstruble said:


> no worse than the pizza thread:shifty:


 
Do I wanna know? :no::laughing:


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## Tom Struble

:jester:comeon it stayed pretty civil:clap:


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## twill59

tomstruble said:


> :jester:comeon it stayed pretty civil:clap:


 
"pizza pizza":sailor:


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## 4 seasons

I love the new Domino's pizza. Haha.... but seriously its good. ANYWAY Flash... if a saddle is called a saddle, because it looks like one. Then where did they come up with the term Cricket? I think I will just agree to disagree on fricken dumb saddle cricket nightmare.:laughing::blink::shutup:


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## FlashingMaster5

4 seasons said:


> I love the new Domino's pizza. Haha.... but seriously its good. ANYWAY Flash... if a saddle is called a saddle, because it looks like one. Then where did they come up with the term Cricket? I think I will just agree to disagree on fricken dumb saddle cricket nightmare.:laughing::blink::shutup:


I agree.:thumbsup:


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## seeyou

*Pizza slices vs. crickets/saddles*

Is it a coincidence that a cricket resembles a slice of pizza and that a saddle resembles two slices? I think not.


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## FlashingMaster5

seeyou said:


> Is it a coincidence that a cricket resembles a slice of pizza and that a saddle resembles two slices? I think not.


I wondered where the pizza came into this:laughing:


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## 4 seasons

Now I'm getting hungry, jeez.


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## Framer53

4 seasons said:


> Now I'm getting hungry, jeez.


Someone mention food??:blink:


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