# So many threads, so little time...



## TileTim (Jul 11, 2007)

Here is my take on Schluter - 

I got Schluterized with Greg, Jaz, & Alex last Nov. although I had been using it for the past 3 years.

I have been setting since 1987 - I know the old school methods. Tile has provided me with a masters in psychology. (paid for my schooling). Last thing I wanted was to sit for hours on end and listen to peoples problems. 

I took about 10 years off from tile and played in the corporate world. Got tired of the kissing a$$ BS and left to start my own co.

researched the new products and technics and found schluter, I was sold when I saw a guy walk out of the tile suppliers warehouse with 323 /ft of underlayment on his shoulder. Sure as hell can't do that with CBU plus you don't get the added benies of uncoupling.

Then when I was invited down to Clemson - found the icing on the cake - they take the time to properly educate you on ALL aspects of the products and they were willing to comp my hotel, food and travel - to me that is just more than lip service or shoving a product down your throat.

I know the old school stuff but there has been vast advancements in the industry - if your not willing to learn & grow you with wither away.

To CO762 - looks like you have or had an affiliation with Noble - am I wrong? I could be wrong but I believe Kerdi/Ditra was on the market prior Noble TS

sorry for the long rant.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

TileTim said:


> Here is my take on Schluter -
> 
> I got Schluterized with Greg, Jaz, & Alex last Nov. although I had been using it for the past 3 years.
> 
> ...


 
Tim, absolutely no reason to say sorry for your rant!!


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

angus242 said:


> Funny, I just said kinda the same thing:
> http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/can-some-you-tiling-guys-lend-hand-73818/index3/#post884221


Quoted for sexy orange sheep content :thumbsup:


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

katoman said:


> Awesome :thumbup: Not only is their system the leading thing in the tile field


I hear that in advertising a lot. "Wyoming's News Leader, channel 10", "California's leading honda dealer", etc.
In advertising, it's called "Puffery". 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery



> One of these products is a foam board with their Kerdi already attatched.


Sounds like denshield, with waterproofing already attached. But it's not orange, so it probably won't work. 

Isn't there something called "easyboard" out there too?
And something called wedi out there too?



> So in a reno you can just replace the damaged drywall.


That's what is already done, no?
With...any substrate....DW, denshield, easyboard, wedi, hardi, durock, etc.



> no new DW, or Denshield, or cement board needed.


You are tearing out a substrate (DW) and putting in another substrate (kerdi). I don't get how this is any savings.

The only way I can see this being a savings is if the contractor is a schluter contractor/dealer/distributor and is stuck using their kerdi--or they conned the client into using a more expensive product that they can put in at a lower cost, thus more money in the contractor's pocket. 
If contactors can find clients that will pay more money than what's normal for their area, and make more money off them, more power to them.



> This product comes in different thicknesses from 1/2" up to 2"


So far, that's the only advantage I can see with these wedi, I mean densh---I mean kerdi. Other boards in common usage match the drywall transitions, so there's nothing new to offer from schluter.



> The 2" is so strong you can build walls, tables, vanities etc. out of it. We made a table and had a 200lb guy JUMP on it. No damage, and held his weight easily. You could build a vanity and tile it right there. Unreal.


That's a novelty that makes a good sales tool, but I don't see any reason to use anything like that because if I don't feel like building a bench, or installing one in the wall, I can just stick down a foam one from the many out there--no cutting and pasting required. Plop it down and tile it. They are built for showers, so they come in many different shapes/sizes.

http://www.noblecompany.com/Products/SheetMembranes/tabid/59/Default.aspx

And besides, I already have an ice cooler and have no reason to be sitting down on the job....  




> Right now they are training 30 guys a month here in the Toronto area, and run courses every week in the US.


I've never denied that schluter incorporated is a wonderful marketing machine. One only need look at the emotional attacks that are directed at people that question/challenge their corporate propaganda to see how good it is.....


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Tim,
I'm not affiliated in any way with nobel. I just use that as an example of schluter not being the only source out there brilliant enough to come up with cosmic, intergalactic products that gurantee peace, love, and a chicken in every pot worldwide. (you get my drift).

While I read the tile/stone boards, I can just imagine all the programmed people out there, "giving false" information to prospective customers. Some do it unintentionally and some I'm sure do it intentionally. Such is the nature of business and people out to make a buck/do business.

That's cool you like the lightweight of ditra. More power to ya. I've used it and sometimes still do in certain cirumstances. You like the lightness of hauling up three flights of stairs. I don't like the fact I'll have to bring up more thinset to use it, and two different kinds of thinset, can't use smaler format tiles, etc.

I use different things for different situations. I inform the customer of all options and why I'd like to prefer using product X in situation Z. And if I have some other clown that stopped by before me, all amped up, corporate logos all over their stuff, telling them that "only my product will work and all others will fail".....well, that's a pretty high "stupidity" knot that I now have to try and untie from their brain.

But like I said, schluter incorporated is like that. That's why they are turning out as many bot armies as rapidly as they can indoctrinate them.
Just another hurdle in making sure the prospective customer is an informed consumer.

I learned old school also, and am going to start using liquid membranes for pans instead of choraloy. I've been using HPG w/their fabric and am amazed by it. Even on unprofiled concrete floors, that stuff STICKS!!! Used 9235 before, but that was too thin for me to have any confidence in it.

Off to work....


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

CO - not sure if you are aware of this or not - Schluter fully guarantees their poduct. If there is a failure, they will pay for everything to repair it. 

That's material and labour. Will any other manufacture of the products you use do this?

Not being smart, want to know if they carry the same warranty, or would they just give you some more product and say 'good luck'. That's usually what you get from manufactures.

One other point - with the Schluter system you don't need any silicone caulking in the corners - nothing to replace down the road.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Hey CO, You have redeemed yourself here IMO-nice recovery:thumbsup:. We are all about debating products, techniques, and methods here. That's how we learn from each other.

I'm not a tile expert by any stretch, but I and other posters from many trades will learn from your debates, then we can draw our own conclusions.

Thanks for toning it down.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

CO762 said:


> That's why they are turning out as many bot armies as rapidly as they can indoctrinate them.





rselectric1 said:


> Hey CO, You have redeemed yourself here IMO-nice recovery:thumbsup:. We are all about debating products, techniques, and methods here.
> 
> Thanks for toning it down.


Sorry, but I disagree. 

To continually, in almost every post call people that use a respectable product that has been in use for 20+ years and almost no failures in the field, bots or sheep is insulting.

There are _many _great products on the market to enhance tiling methods. Schluter is ONE manufacturer of _some_ of these products. Do they fit the bill every time? No. Does everyone _have_ to use them to be successful? Hell no.

CO362 has an issue with Schluter. That's his prerogative. The solution is to not use what he doesn't like. But to constantly write derogatory comments about the company and its users is absurd. 

If disgust was aimed at things like people using mastic on flooring, or tiling direct over greenboard in wet locations, I could see the angst. 

How about discussion for the need, or not, of addressing vertical joints in a wet location? How about the discussion of setting materials? How about the discussion of tiling techniques in the US compare to other places in the world? 

He's got an obvious big orange chip on his shoulder. That's fine but there are a lot of us on here that don't care about it and surely don't want to hear it over and over again. He doesn't have to like Schluter products are used often by a lot of installers but he surely doesn't have to attempt to degrade them either.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

katoman said:


> CO - not sure if you are aware of this or not - Schluter fully guarantees their poduct. If there is a failure, they will pay for everything to repair it.
> 
> That's material and labour. Will any other manufacture of the products you use do this?
> .



Dens does it
"GP will reimburse the reasonable cost of repair or replacement of the non-conforming panels and the affected portion of the tile assembly, up to a maximum amount equal to the original installation cost for the affected portion of the tile assembly."

Schluter's
"If the Products fail to meet this warranty, Schluter Systems, at its election, will a) reinstall or replace the failed portion of the tile assembly or b) pay an amount not to exceed the original square foot cost of the installation of the tile assembly shown to be defective."

They basically have the same warranty and if you ever have a problem with either then it is largly how good of a relationship you have with your supplier. 
(I have never had a failure with either product)
Craig


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

katoman said:


> That's material and labour. Will any other manufacture of the products you use do this?


I don't know. I've never had to worry about that as none of my work has ever failed and I always err on the side of "more safe" whenever in doubt. 

I suppose it would make some feel OK to have a manufacturer warranty their work (via their product), but it's not worth the head ache to me, the bad name, etc. to have to worry about it. I've walked from some jobs where the home owner/GC has wanted it done where I didn't feel good about it. And to a person, they were more concerned about money, so why bother with those in the first place? Long term they aren't worth the potential headaches. 

Plus, often I mix and match products. Example is I use mapei thinset, but polyblend grout. (I don't like mapei's grout/caulk due to probs w/it a couple of different times).



> One other point - with the Schluter system you don't need any silicone caulking in the corners - nothing to replace down the road.


Man, talk about doing "the bare minimum"! :laughing: j/k
Sometimes I caulk the corners, sometimes I grout them. I give the customer that option, splaining that there will be two different colors and a lot of the grout is high quality enough these days it "should not crack".
They choose between the two.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> We are all about debating products, techniques, and methods here. That's how we learn from each other.


EXACTLY.
No one is born with this knowledge. We all had to learn from someone and we all (hopefully) still learn. I do many different trades, so I'm constantly learning new or old but mainly different ways of doing things. Each day I work, I try to learn something new. 

What annoyed me is when people try to bully others into their way/products. Especially when it's a group of people.

'course throw into that mix them stating your way "is wrong", theirs is "the best" and yours "will fail" etc. Well, that just **ahem** doesn't help. 

I've seen it happen on quite a few boards where a small group of people drive away others and intimidate those that stay. Saw that at bridge's schluter/felker/tls/big buck$ board a lot. At least they are somewhat up front about their peddling and intimidation. Somewhat. But like I said, it happens a lot--it's the nature of the internet and people alone behind computer screens. They tend to get tribal sometimes.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

angus242 said:


> There are _many _great products on the market to enhance tiling methods. Schluter is ONE manufacturer of _some_ of these products. Do they fit the bill every time? No. Does everyone _have_ to use them to be successful?


That's weird because when i first came to this board, I saw that you were recommending schluter's kerdi on every thread and the new ones, you did it also, over and over. When I countered with another product/method, you kept trying to browbeat/bully me into accepting "kerdi is the best".

When I didn't, well, you started your own thread...this one IIRC....about kerdi....or you. 

Maybe I missed your response to one of my posts that stated, "Well yes, nobel's TS is also a great product and is the same as kerdi. You can use that too and get the same results" or the like.



> CO362 has an issue


Who is that? 
Let me know when that person signs in and I'll let him know he has an issue.... 

To make it easier, 7.62 is the metric equivalent of .308. (a rifle cartridge).


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

CO762 said:


> *What annoyed me is when people try to bully others into their way/products. Especially when it's a group of people.*
> 
> *'course throw into that mix them stating your way "is wrong", theirs is "the best" and yours "will fail" etc. Well, that just **ahem** doesn't help.*
> 
> *I've seen it happen on quite a few boards where a small group of people drive away others and intimidate those that stay. Saw that at bridge's schluter/felker/tls/big buck$ board a lot. At least they are somewhat up front about their peddling and intimidation. Somewhat. But like I said, it happens a lot--it's the nature of the internet and people alone behind computer screens. They tend to get tribal sometimes. *


Let's see some links to these patently false allegations. 

What happened, you get booted off of some other forums for being a TROLL?

I'm a regular over at TYW, and have been for a couple of years. While we do have spirited discussions about all manner of tile techniques, what you're saying about "brow beating" etc, is simply a lie. 

What's wrong with needing more than one thinset? What, do you use just one type of mortar for all your tile work? Gimme a freakin' break.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

CO762 said:


> That's weird because when i first came to this board, I saw that you were recommending schluter's kerdi on every thread and the new ones, you did it also, over and over. When I countered with another product/method, you kept trying to browbeat/bully me into accepting "kerdi is the best".
> 
> When I didn't, well, you started your own thread...this one IIRC....about kerdi....or you.
> 
> Maybe I missed your response to one of my posts that stated, "Well yes, nobel's TS is also a great product and is the same as kerdi. You can use that too and get the same results" or the like.


Why does it matter what _*I *_like, use or recommend? Do I have to appease your opinions to answer questions honestly? 

Please show me where _*I *_said "Kerdi is best" :whistling brow-beat, really....

The difference between your version and mine is that all I've done is defend a product that I trust, use and recommend. You have attacked that company very often, belittling their products and users. Who the hell are you to come in here and act like that? What are your qualifications? Who the hell are you? You're an unknown with feisty typing fingers and one _huge_ grudge against Schluter. 

If one of us replied every time you mention Noble and said it was a rip-off company making a useless product that is nothing more than a marketing scam, you would be defending it. Oh yes, you would.

But instead, you get your jolly's off by bashing Schluter-bots just to see who is gonna take the bait and attack you back. For all I know, that's your main reason for showing up here.

Since you have joined you have bad-mouthed (continually) Schluter and the people that use it. I believe you have been derogatory with Felker, John Bridge members & his forum and even the iPhone.

I really hope I'm wrong, but to me, you are someone with a (negative) agenda. Your goal is not to come here to share ideas, methods or general info with fellow contractors. You are here to amuse yourself with how easily you can get under people's skin. I assure you, that attitude will not last long here. The mods won't have someone acting like an internet bully. From one of your replies, it sounds as if you've already had been warned. 

We're a pretty easy going bunch. If you decide you want to really participate instead of the silly games you've been playing, fine. Otherwise you will not get away with continual chain-yanking. 

Finally, I saw your username posted as 362 somewhere. Sorry.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

So CO762, you've never had a job failure of any kind and you are a jack of all trades type. Either you are the luckiest s.o.b. in the contracting world, you are so off putting that your customers don't _want_ to give you a call back, or you are just a liar on the internet. I'm not sure which....I'll let people make their own minds up. :whistling

Oh and this coming from someone who self-admittedly installed Ditra with carpet glue. :no: I'm sorry but in my book that shows your ignorance of the product, and your in-ability to read or care about instructions. You probably install NS with vct glue...or do you follow instructions with products you like to fit your bias against those you don't?

Since your first post on this board you have had a hard-on for Schluter and anyone who recommends their products. Their are a handful of us on this board who have the ability to call bull**** out for what it is. You sir are full of it. The same handful also happen to be some of the Schluter-Bots you speak of (well, Angus is a sheep but he just has to be different). I don't think that's a coincidence, actually.

As far John Bridge's forum brow beating you....you've lost your mind. If anything that place is _too_ nice in my experience, and people are not allowed to call someone out with any real conviction. That's one of the only things I dislike about that forum, but I also understand as it's main function is to help the diy crowd and hell, they bill themselves as "the friendliest place on the internet".

Bottom line, if we are such hard people to get along with, and this place is full of the Schluter marketing machine, why stay?


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

co- with the schluter 'system' you can put their trims in the inside corners, no need for silicone.

Educated yourself before critisizing. You know not of what you speak.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

And actually to be blunt and honest - I'm glad you're not using Schluter, probalbly give us a bad name.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Greg, you're an obama voter anyway. :laughing:


Angus, no biggie on the name. It's sort of a funny name anyway and the mod/admin here did that first. 
Where does your 242 come from?



PrecisionFloors said:


> I'll let people make their own minds up.


Good I do also. 



> Oh and this coming from someone who self-admittedly installed Ditra with carpet glue.


When it was over wood, we all did it that way. Over concrete, we'd use thinset. IIRC, that was about 5 years ago and not heard back yet. 20 year old carpet glue still has to be scraped up....and that's just in perimeter squirts and some in the middle. But since then, over wood I use CBU. It was spec'd on that project....great marketing.... 
When I've had to demo tile that someone used ditra on, I like it. It comes flying off pretty easily. Floor scraper and a shove or a metabo that doesn't work very hard at all. Quite the opposite of demo'ing tile put down with a CBU. I need the big boy hitachi demo tool and work it long and hard to get that up--and still tear up the subfloor in a lot of places.

I'm not ignorant of ditra--I just think it's little more than just marketing hype. I've asked people over and over again why one should use it, and the only thing that makes any sense is the "uncoupling" that the corporation puts out for a reason. 

Why would someone want their tile/stone to be uncoupled from the floor?
the only reason I can think of needing such separation is because tile is being put on a place that could have some movement, so you need to separate it from the substrate.



> they bill themselves as "the friendliest place on the internet".


Well if that's what they say they themselves are, who needs more proof?
"I'm the smartest guy here". 



> this place is full of the Schluter marketing machine, why stay?


this place isn't. It's not the schluter/bridge forum.  Heck, I doubt if there are any schulter corporate reps here on standby to supply "rebuttles" to any heretic. 

Actually, I'm spending more time than I care to in this section of the forum due to my other const interests. I responded the way I did due to schluter being so strongly put forth over and over as pretty much the end all of anything and everything.

So, I asked some questions, like "why do you need to waterproof vertical walls in a shower?" and that was met with disgust/firestorm from the schluter crowd. I still haven't gotten a reason.
And if there were one?
Why is kerdi better than:
nobel TS
denshield
any CBU w/a liquid membrane

I think it's funny that now a "great product is coming"....but that "new" product is another version of denshield (as I've said and not been refuted or discussed).

I worked today, helping my bud. He's an old school guy and I told him I'm switching to HPG for pans/showers. He didn't buy it and we (ironically) drew designs on some mesh embedded in blue goo. 
Water is very predictable, so finally he said, "It's not TCA..."
I replied the last time he read anything from the tca it was on a stone tablet."

To each his/her own.
There are more than one product out there.
There is more than one way to do something.
Showers didn't "fail" before kerdi was marketed just as showers didn't fail before dens---I mean---kerdiboard came into being.

I think I've made my point now about _a lot, but not all _ of the schulter franch--I mean installers/promoters/distributors out there.
I hope others have read our discourse. That can be good when an installer/distributor comes to their house and promotes it as the only way to guarantee anything. Or all else will fail.

I was in daltile about 5 years ago in another state. I stopped by and they had a dewalt saw. I asked the kid how much it was and he said $1600.
Then proceeded to tell me all about it--it was specifically designed by DAL and only for sale by dal (can only get it there), etc. I guess i was educated because I replied, "That's funny, I bought mine for $700."
He was floored that some other DAL would sell below their cost.
It was from toolking, not dal.

INFORMATION is king.
We owe it to ourselves and we owe it to others.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm an Obama voter? Huh? Where'd you get that idea? Oh, prolly from the same place you got all your other "ideas". 

Still no links from John Bridge Forums, or here, to back up your false allegations.......that's what I thought.


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

Greg, 

I always suspected you were a liberal... :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

angus242 said:


> _Another _thing you don't like. For someone whose vibe seems to be "choice" is a good thing, you are eliminating more and more as your post count rises.


Choice and information is always a good thing. By being given information and choices, one can choose, thus add/eliminate things. 
No one thing is "the best" for everything. Yet I see that from a lot of people using/promoting/distibuting/selling schluter products.

I don't like ditra. Sometimes I've used it and sometime in the future I will again when that circumstance arises.

I don't like felker/target type "traditional" saws. I also have a choice so I no longer use them and none of the people I know of use them. They all use dewalts now. Other people can use whatever they want. I don't care. But when people say that the dewalt is for a hobbyist, blah blah blah, then I'm gonna chime in. If your felker works for you and you like it, well then kewl....have at it. I liked my sawmaster until I had to do a lot of chair rails, liners, or had to move it. 

I don't float jobs, so i don't buy the material. But I do buy my equipment and dal absolutely SUCKS when it comes to pricing. I can buy a BD blade from them for 95, yet drive 3 blocks away and get it for 1/3 less. I used to get a lot of my stone tools from hardrock tools, but they have the personality of a collective soap dish--at least a smile, a "hey, how's it going? or the like", so no mas. I found another place and will give them a shot. Arizona Tile is a good company. Even downright friendly.
But if dal works for you, then have at it. Most tile/stone folks have accounts with them. I do. But I avoid them. Free choice makes for better things.



> However, this may keep me on your Christmas card list; I'm not a member of the John Bridge Forum.


I've nothing against the schluter/bridge forum. However, it'd be nice for homeowners/DIY types seeking help that go there to know their relationship with schulter incorporated. Just sign up and in the "help" section continually plug another manufacturers product instead of a schluter one. See what kind of responses you get, over and over and over. Heck, if you're special by not fitting into "what we're about here", the staff may even shoot you some PMs.


Back to iron chef.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

CO said:


> I've nothing against the schluter/bridge forum. However, it'd be nice for homeowners/DIY types seeking help that go there to know their relationship with schulter incorporated. Just sign up and in the "help" section continually plug another manufacturers product instead of a schluter one. See what kind of responses you get, over and over and over. Heck, if you're special by not fitting into "what we're about here", the staff may even shoot you some PMs.


BS

What's funny is, Schluter has a policy against it's employees participating in online forums of any kind. But other major manufacturers participate regularly in the John Bridge forums. The owner of Laticrete participates regularly, a big wig from Noble participates regularly. That's just two.

Don't mean to sound like a broken record, but as long as you continue to spread disinformation about the John Bridge forums, I'll be here to call you on it.

Still waiting for just one example of pro Schluter brow beating. Still not forth coming.

Meanwhile, since you won't, I will. Here's a thread from the whirl famous John Bridge "liberry". Whaddaya know, shower construction instructions other than the Schluter Shower System. Hmmmmm............http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5434



CO said:


> *it'd be nice for homeowners/DIY types seeking help that go there to know their relationship with schulter incorporated.*


Here's the home page for the DIY advice forum, look to the right side of the page, lo and behold, sponsors other than Schluter. In fact, direct competitors of Schluter. Hmmmmmm...........http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1

Oh look, here's a current thread from the DIY forum, a staff member is actually recommending something other than Kerdi, and right on page one.  Oh the humanity!  http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=82267



> For use with a traditional clamping drain and pre-slope some of us still favor the old fashioned sheet membranes for shower pan liners.
> 
> Some of the newer liquid-applied products are much better than the older ones, but I'm still not ready to accept them as pan liners. For waterproofing walls and niches and benches and other places where water doesn't stand I don't have much problem with any of them if properly applied. Properly being the operative word there.
> 
> CPE or PVC liner for the pan gets my vote for your current set up. You can find a good deal of information about installing those in the Shower Construction section of our whirl-famous Liberry.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Choice and information is always a good thing. By being given information and choices, one can choose, thus add/eliminate things. No one thing is "the best" for everything. Yet I see that from a lot of people using/promoting/distibuting/selling schluter products.
*Yet when a Schluter product is a good choice, it just pisses you off that it's recommended so you resort to calling people names and spread disinformation*

I don't like ditra. 
*And that has become obvious *

I don't like felker/target type "traditional" saws. I also have a choice so I no longer use them and none of the people I know of use them. They all use dewalts now. Other people can use whatever they want. I don't care. But when people say that the dewalt is for a hobbyist, blah blah blah, then I'm gonna chime in. If your felker works for you and you like it, well then kewl....have at it. 
*And so you don't like it, now it's a bad tool? I actually sold my Dewalt for the Felker. The Dewalt was a good saw but couldn't keep up with the abuse I was dishing it. It comes down to the motor. A Baldor motor, on any saw, is much better than anything else out there.*

But I do buy my equipment and dal absolutely SUCKS when it comes to pricing. I can buy a BD blade from them for 95, yet drive 3 blocks away and get it for 1/3 less. I used to get a lot of my stone tools from hardrock tools, but they have the personality of a collective soap dish--at least a smile, a "hey, how's it going? or the like", so no mas. I found another place and will give them a shot. Arizona Tile is a good company. Even downright friendly.
But if dal works for you, then have at it. Most tile/stone folks have accounts with them. I do. But I avoid them. Free choice makes for better things.
*I buy tile and setting materials from Dal weekly and they are super competitive with pricing. As for tiling tools, I use the internet. Not a bigger free choice anywhere!*


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## Greg from K/W (Jan 28, 2010)

Thats funny you guys are arguing about that site. The Schluter rep told us about it and recommended it to everyone at the course. Why would they do that if they where afraid of us going there to learn another system? I come on here to learn not to listen to guys bickering about this stuff. Show me the facts and I will decide whether or not I will use it. All this bitching does nothing to help those of us that are here to learn new ways of doing things. I respect both sides of this so if you want to show us fact go for it. But please stop the bashing and point out the good on your preferred product guys. This doesn't help anyone at all. More than anything it turns me off even coming here for information and that pisses me off. Thanks for posting the info though. If you have another system maybe a separate thread would be good instead of bashing this product here.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Greg from K/W said:


> But please stop the bashing and point out the good on your preferred product guys.


Sounds good to me. I've thought this has gone on long enough for a while now.
BTW, congrats on your hockey team's gold medal. It was a good game.


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## Greg from K/W (Jan 28, 2010)

Thank you Co this crap is what drove me away from JLC. all the bashing and name calling. It is disrespectful and only make the person doing it look bad. Please if you would start another thread about your preferred method and I would be happy to listen to what you have to say about it. 

This thread isn't worth even reading now because of the crap that has been postulated in it. I hope the mods will clean it up to show only the good and bad points with out the garbage that is here. Then it would be worth reading and learning from. 

I hope that others would respect your thread on your methods enough so I could read it and learn something form you. Isn't that what this forum is about? If it isn't let me know and I will bugger off to my favourite forum and not come back to this one at all. I don't need this kind of garbage to learn something and make my business better.


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

Greg, relax we are nothing like JLC - mostly this stuff is either nipped pretty early on by a great group of mods or if he can avoid breaking the rules, everyone simply learns to ignore the troglodyte & they disappear

Welcome to CT by the way


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Greg from K/W said:


> I come on here to learn not to listen to guys bickering about this stuff. Show me the facts and I will decide whether or not I will use it. All this bitching does nothing to help those of us that are here to learn new ways of doing things. I respect both sides of this so if you want to show us fact go for it. But please stop the bashing and point out the good on your preferred product guys. This doesn't help anyone at all. More than anything it turns me off even coming here for information and that pisses me off..


Greg,

This is only a recent problem. A new member has arrived and started a whirlwind of name calling, accusations and misinformation. Overall, the craziness has died down some. However, until this fully stops, you can plan on the "pissing match". It's one thing for someone to bring up a questionable material or procedure to discuss. It's totally another to have someone constantly bash a reputable manufacturer's products and call them "not useful". In that case, you can expect multiple people to reply. 

When someone posts a comment that is untrue, the other responsible members will reply. Actually, the more that reply, the more the "myth" post is busted. 

Trust me, it _is _a royal pain to all of us but it's also a necessity. On a forum of professionals, there's no reason to allow bogus comments. :thumbsup:


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

man, so much for that....



angus242 said:


> A new member has arrived and started a whirlwind of name calling, accusations and misinformation.


If the only thing an account recommends is the same thing...on three different threads, then starts another thread in and of itself about the same thing, then the question begs "why?".

Kerdi...kerdi....kerdi...etc.
isn't nobelseal the same thing, only thicker?
Yet...kerdi....kerdi...kerdi.

But....something that SHOULD BE ASKED in the specifications stage--"what do you have?" That will dictate what their needs are. But that's just me. I always ask a variety of questions, so I have parameters to work with. But then again, I work with more than one product from more than one manufacturer.

Angus, is it necessary to use steam room grade waterproofing on the walls of normal showers/baths? No. But you know this. Others do also. So why recommend steam grade waterproofing on them? Over and over and over?
And even if for some reason, you and others feel the need to make such a recommendation, why not also recommend the products from other manufacturers that also are steam room rated?

*What "steam room grade" waterproofing did you and others constantly recommend for walls in non-steam room showers/tub surrounds before schluter's kerdi?*

I don't expect an answer for any of the above. I've never gotten any....but we all know.

On the bright side, thanks for the heads up to me and everyone that reads this board that schluters kerdiboard is coming in the future. When it comes and you post about it, you might also want to tell the readers that, "well yes, it's no different than denshield, but it's orange and costs more. But that's OK because there's no reason for it anyway............"



> However, until this fully stops, you can plan on the "pissing match".


 I stepped back....and you continued on....and blamed me of course.... 

Do ya'll peddle/recommend kerdi to people that have a plastic shower pan and are fine with it and want to keep it? You should because if it's not schluter, "it will fail"..... :laughing:



> Trust me, it _is _a royal pain to all of us but it's also a necessity.


I feel your "sense of duty"..........but moreso...I understand.......


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

CO762 said:


> I don't expect an answer for any of the above.  I've never gotten any....but we all know.


_Again_, wrong. Please tell me what questions you've had that have not been answered by me or someone else?

I'll get to your new ones in just a bit.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

CO - to be fair, I hear what you're saying that there are other products out there.

I'm new to the Schluter system. When I found out about it, I immediately signed up for, and took their course.

I know, they want to push their product. Who doesn't.

But what sold me on Schluter was that it is a complete system. Everything has been extensively researched and tested. Everything works in conjuction with everything, floor,walls, trims, etc.

So I can go to my Schluter dealer and get everything I need to do the job, and sell to the client that this is a complete Schluter system, backed by them.

Just a note - the Kerdiboard coming out already has the water proof membrane on it, so all you will need to do is tape the joints. Won't have to run the Kerdi on the walls.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Holy Crap!*

 What is the problem??????? CO,, use what ever material you want,, whatever you like, - Angus likes his stuff, you like using yours,,Katoman likes this , you like that,, no need to get in attack mode,,, what is the problem ? just let it go,, It's nice to hear all the differences in material , cost , installation time, durability, what is good and what is not - who has problems with certain material and who doesn't . 
For some reason you seem upset about this material- just let it go-OK:thumbsup: 
This is starting to remind me of the best cordless tool thread recently- it just goes on and on and on-(the bickering) mine rules- yours sucks---:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: pointless. no one benefits - I understand what your saying, I really do- but , we all have our own products,tools that we like for what ever reason- just try to accept that we are not cookie stamped , and you know that is true -, just let it go,, alright:thumbsup: 
Brian


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Brian,
OK, I'll let it go...again.

Time for a new icon--they have a lot of cool ones here. 

nline2long: OMG! It's BONO!!!!! Looking confused as ever! :laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*No,,*

that's my baby- MY Oliver pattern lathe- my baby,,:thumbsup:
Brian


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

CO762 said:


> If the only thing an account recommends is the same thing...on three different threads, then starts another thread in and of itself about the same thing, then the question begs "why?"


Because that's what he PREFERS...duh



CO762 said:


> Kerdi...kerdi....kerdi...etc.
> isn't nobelseal the same thing, only thicker?


It's a similar product that achieves the same result. What is wrong with recommending EITHER? Why do YOU get offended that someone recommends their PREFERENCE? I have yet to see a post where ANYONE said Noble products were inferior. Show me ONE.




CO762 said:


> But....something that SHOULD BE ASKED in the specifications stage--"what do you have?" That will dictate what their needs are. But that's just me. I always ask a variety of questions, so I have parameters to work with. But then again, I work with more than one product from more than one manufacturer.


Absolutely. Because ones got to know when to spec out carpet adhesive or drywall tape for their tile installations.



CO762 said:


> Angus, is it necessary to use steam room grade waterproofing on the walls of normal showers/baths?


What regulations body or specifications document considers waterproof (as determined by ANSI standards) as steam room only?



CO762 said:


> And even if for some reason, you and others feel the need to make such a recommendation, why not also recommend the products from other manufacturers that also are steam room rated?


I have done my due diligence and training and feel most comfortable with recommending Kerdi for waterproofing situations. Why would I take the time and effort to learn an entirely new product line that achieves the exact same result? That's a waste of my time, confusing to the customer and completely not necessary.



CO762 said:


> What "steam room grade" waterproofing did you and others constantly recommend for walls in non-steam room showers/tub surrounds before schluter's kerdi?


I didn't install showers before Kerdi was available. But I am sure as hell replacing a whole crap-load of those old, not waterproofed showers today!





CO762 said:


> On the bright side, thanks for the heads up to me and everyone that reads this board that schluters kerdiboard is coming in the future. When it comes and you post about it, you might also want to tell the readers that, "well yes, it's no different than denshield, but it's orange and costs more. But that's OK because there's no reason for it anyway............"


It is different from DensShield. You have been told why. And even all the way back to one of our very first discussions, I told you to see it in person....as I was NOT trying to sell you on anything. 



CO762 said:


> I stepped back....and you continued on....and blamed me of course....


Yep. Step into a new room, call people names, post incorrect information and say that products by a company with no history of failures produces "useless" products...........and THEN back off. 
You're NOT a martyr. 



CO762 said:


> Do ya'll peddle/recommend kerdi to people that have a plastic shower pan and are fine with it and want to keep it? You should because if it's not schluter, "it will fail"..... :laughing:


Another completely baseless, ignorant comment.



CO762 said:


> I feel your "sense of duty"..........but moreso...I understand.......


I _do _feel a sense duty to call you out for exact what you are trying to do on this forum. Besides, this is doing wonders for keeping my post count near RSelectric's!


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

It seems like just yesterday when Angus hit 1000!!:whistling:whistling


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I have been trying to keep out of this, but, CO, seriously??

If I were you, I would tone it down a little bit. You do realize you are on the interent?? 

Do you think these forumns are visited by just contractors?? Do you know how many emails and phone calls I get from people based on my posts here?

I have got into some heated discussions on this board, and yes, I have probably posted a few things I later realized were a little over the top, however, I have a lot of respect for my fellow contractors on here who are constantly striving to improve their trade's and business's. 
These are the same guys who will offer intelligent opinions and advice when asked.


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