# measuring roof without a ladder?



## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Yes, in my proposals, when I am expecting the possibility of the decking needing to be replaced, I will enter the total square footage, based on my calculations which include an amount for starter strip shingles, gable bleeder strip shingles, hip and ridge cap shingles and valley waste, plus my own additional waste factor.

This way, when I charge for 100 % plywood decking on a seperate line item on the options page, I have a square foot amount to base it on. There can be no dispute to a superfluous amount, since the square footage is referred to in the proposal.

I do not leave my diagram page, but if they want a copy after they sign the contract, they certainly can have one.

33 % downpayment, plus an additional 33 % on start, which minimizes the amount you can get stuck for.

Ed


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## theroofinggod (Jun 28, 2007)

not legal here to be ahead of the customer with his money


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

On residentilal /steep; Almost never.

On commercial/flat; Yes, every time.


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## Jake Stevens (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm been out of the office so I didn't get back. I think what ever works for you is find. I don't get on roofs like I use too. Aged I think. But if a roof looks bad, rolling, layers, or a bad transition I would go on the roof to maybe change a roof line or check the decking. Presentation should be what works for you. For Ed going on the roof works for me not going on works. We do complete detail quotes, never roof overs and we do about 80 to 100 roofs a year.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

If you are a roofer, then you should measure the roof. What's so hard about that???

To the original poster......From your posts, it look like you want to get paid for as little work as possible, huh??
Insurance writers do this, not roofers.

I don't understand why someone would pose as being a professional, but are really just ex-vacuum salesmen.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

If I could get away with having a 90% downpayment, I would.

In Illinois, there are no California, (and I guess NY too), limitations.

I project a 33 % Net Profit, so in my opinion, I am fully entitled to the 33 %, as that is a fully earned line item earmarked specifically for revenue earned. Therefor, I am Not technically getting ahead, in my method of rationalization. I am ensuring the full profit margin is paid for, upfront. Most guys charge 50 % down and final upon completion. I don't want 50 % plus wood extras hanging out that far.

Ed


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

No limitations in my area either.
I do itemized billing for both material and labor and take the cost of materials up front and cost of labor upon completion which means they aren't actually paying me anything until the work is completed.
I'll even offer to have 10% held back for 30 days or so from time to time when dealing with home owners who have been "ripped off" poorly treated in the past with other contractors.


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

We measure almost every roof as well. Right On ED !, real roofers have no problem going up on a roof.


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## Pavola (Nov 12, 2007)

How ya going to know if there's some bad plywood or a complete re-sheathing needed. Customers love that - "oh by the way we had to replace...., here's the extra charges". A little hint up front removes any doubt of being unprofessional or dishonest. I measure, and use the pitch formula to double check for my own benefit. I've had several customers call back and tell me 'you're like 4-5 square less/more' than the others. Well, I want the confidence to beable to tell them my quote is accurate and I think most customers don't have much confidence in sidewalk measurements.


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

I never tell them the squares. why do they need to know? propriatary


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## Duane1982 (Dec 3, 2007)

I think the law only applies to nyc. I've been doing work in the syracuse area for awhile and my father still works rochester and we get 33% down. Every Contractor I know does the same.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I measure as much from the roof as safely possible but only to wow the customer since most guys don't get up. I'm the one guy who does. I am a proponent of always at least getting up to check the layers since it's not uncommon to have roofers in the past use various techniques to hide layers.

Having said that, unless the roof is a cut up beast, there is no reason other than to wow the customer to get on the roof.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Grumpy said:


> .....Having said that, unless the roof is a cut up beast, there is no reason other than to wow the customer to get on the roof.


That's what I said along time ago and got bi**h slapped!

Hey Grumpy?
Can you, or Ed, or Killer remember to turn on those Christmas lights when we go back thru town Sat nite? 
Mom likes the way those skyscrapers look when they're lit up like that.
TIA:thumbup::laughing:


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## Pavola (Nov 12, 2007)

Grumpy said:


> I measure as much from the roof as safely possible but only to wow the customer since most guys don't get up. I'm the one guy who does. *I am a proponent of always at least getting up to check the layers since it's not uncommon to have roofers in the past use various techniques to hide layers.*
> 
> Having said that, unless the roof is a cut up beast, *there is no reason other than to wow the customer to get on the roof*.


 I believe this is what's called conflicting statements.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I go on every roof I estimate, always have always will. Being an owner operator for over 10 guess it's sort of routine.

Most of my home owners pay for the materials then pay for labor upon completion or when the insurance funds clear. Some give half down, a few have sent it in the mail with a note, "Please, put me on your list". In these cases I don't cash the check until a few days prior to starting. One mailed me a check for the full amount and we finally met an hour before I finished her roof, she was from the phone book. In that case the check was also held until a few days prior to start.

Some insurance companies put me on the check which is nice since it speeds up payment. One I did a couple months ago was $19.5K and the first check I got prior to starting was $14.5K. He was a regular at my wifes work. 

This year did 4-5 roofs were I paid for the materials up front before any money was paid. They were 20-25sq easy insurance jobs though. The ones I spoil myself with while the piglets sit.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Yes, in my proposals, when I am expecting the possibility of the decking needing to be replaced, I will enter the total square footage, based on my calculations which include an amount for starter strip shingles, gable bleeder strip shingles, hip and ridge cap shingles and valley waste, plus my own additional waste factor.
> 
> This way, when I charge for 100 % plywood decking on a seperate line item on the options page, I have a square foot amount to base it on. There can be no dispute to a superfluous amount, since the square footage is referred to in the proposal.
> 
> ...



Ed

Have you had a lot of cstomers stiff you???? and thats why you get a deposite?? or have you just always done it that way??


thanks
dave mac


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## Pavola (Nov 12, 2007)

RooferJim said:


> I never tell them the squares. why do they need to know? propriatary


Would you tell them after you got the job? Why don't they need to know? I think a smart consumer is going to want to know so they can compare bids. I personally detail an estimate as much as I can to protect myself and the HO. IMO a roof quote without the estimated number of squares is a incomplete quote.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Dave Mac said:


> Ed
> 
> Have you had a lot of cstomers stiff you???? and thats why you get a deposite?? or have you just always done it that way??
> 
> ...


Not alot, but enough to consider how to minimize the potential loss.

I remember attending a seminar a long long time ago, by Richard Kaller, and he pointed out how many jobs you would have to do to make X amount of profit based on XX % margin. That follows then, if you take a hit from one customer, how many jobs would you have to do to make it up, which you never actually will, but just get up to where you should have been in the first place. So, why risk it when nobody objects? 

Ed


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## davinci (Dec 26, 2007)

i rarely go on the roof. that said,i get 50% down and then the other 50 upon completetion.never had a complaint yet, the only time i go on the roof is to check to see how many layers are on. also,in my contract i state that i will charge extra for any sheathing that needs to be replaced and if it does,i try and show the HO. however,if there is only 1 or 2 that have to be replaced,i just go ahead and do it without an extra charge. anything more and i will notify the HO.i tend to o a bit extra just to make the HO feel good.uts good business and i get lots of referrals because of that. homeowners hate being nickeled and dimed so i do my best to do extra's on the house if its a negligable expense.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

For the really anal home owners I send them in the mail a highly detailed and very easy to understand diagram, Xactimate estimate, and private estimate which is very detailed. The only one that doesn't show the number of squares is the private estimate. 

With Xactimate it's all about numbers and units not whats actually being done and how it's being done.

Had a couple really cheap home owners ask for the extra materials but I usually tell them it was my mistake, I ordered the quanity off my next job! Had a 3M big wig complain about having a couple bundles left over last year and that his tree house needed to be roofed. Decided to make him happy I'd personaly tear off the little roof and shingle it myself, he was happy. After we finished his 50sq 8/12 he said he found four staples and a empty can of pop but thought it was from the painters. I spent two hours with the magnet roller, gotta think the four staples came down the downspout after it rained.


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