# Overloaded Circuits?



## KJC (Jan 4, 2008)

Hello Everyone! I usually hang out in painting discussion area of contractor talk., however I have an electrical problem that no one seems to be able to figure out. I own a rental condo that I purchased back in September that was a foreclosure that I completely rehabbed prior to renting it out. Since the renter has been living in the unit (about 2 months), he has said there is a problem with the lights flickering. I have had a licensed electrician come out on two different occassions to take care of various electrical issues and during the time they were out I asked them about the flickering lights my tenant was complaining about. They noted that the flickering is due to appliances requiring a large draw of electricity to start the motor will temporarily take away from lights that are in use at the time the motor starts-up, which seemed reasonable to me at the time. However, the flickering persists and is pretty constant. Based on research I have done on this site by searching past posts, it appears as though my circuits are overloaded. Based on the facts provided, does anyone agree with this conclusion? If so, how do you solve a problem of overloaded circuits? If you do not think it is overloaded circuits, anybody have any ideas of what could be the cause of this flickering? I am planning to talk with the electrician I have been using about this again today, however I would like to get more than one opinion prior to speaking with them. I am wondering if I need to have my circuit board upgraded as it is pretty old. Thanks in advance for your help!


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

There are a lot of different things that could cause flickering light. 

Does the flickering coincide with the furnace, A/C, or heat pump kicking on? 

Did he check the panel connections in the condo unit? (This assumes the unit has it's own panel)

Did he check the connections at the main service, unit meter?

Do any other units report the same problem?


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

KJC said:


> Hello Everyone! I usually hang out in painting discussion area of contractor talk., however I have an electrical problem that no one seems to be able to figure out. I own a rental condo that I purchased back in September that was a foreclosure that I completely rehabbed prior to renting it out. Since the renter has been living in the unit (about 2 months), he has said there is a problem with the lights flickering. I have had a licensed electrician come out on two different occassions to take care of various electrical issues and during the time they were out I asked them about the flickering lights my tenant was complaining about. They noted that the flickering is due to appliances requiring a large draw of electricity to start the motor will temporarily take away from lights that are in use at the time the motor starts-up, which seemed reasonable to me at the time. However, the flickering persists and is pretty constant. Based on research I have done on this site by searching past posts, it appears as though my circuits are overloaded. Based on the facts provided, does anyone agree with this conclusion? If so, how do you solve a problem of overloaded circuits? If you do not think it is overloaded circuits, anybody have any ideas of what could be the cause of this flickering? I am planning to talk with the electrician I have been using about this again today, however I would like to get more than one opinion prior to speaking with them. I am wondering if I need to have my circuit board upgraded as it is pretty old. Thanks in advance for your help!


 
Being as you said your not an electrican and hired one who maybee dosent want to or dosent know how to fix it I will try to help,ask the following if he cant or wont answer the following start lookin for somone else. It would be rare for the circuits to be overloaded,need to know the following 1 are the appliances on dedicated circuits dw ,disp, gdo, laundrury, furnace, electric range dryer ac etc 2 how many circuits in the panel 3 do the lights get real brite then real dim? or do they dim when certain appliances come on,5 is the main hot to the touch or dose it hum, 6 are there seprate service laterals and meters or a meter center is the service overhead or underground find out the following then we will discuss this further.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

KJC said:


> .... I have an electrical problem that no one seems to be able to figure out.
> ... I completely rehabbed prior to renting it out.


Have you called the electrician who wired the place yet?


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Flickering to me indicates a loose connection somewhere. If the lights are dimming when an appliance starts up then I would geuss that they are on the same circuit and should be islolated from one another. Keep in mind that motors use up 4-to-6 times more amperage at start up than they do once they get cookin'.


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

Do they flicker or dim.

Dimming is somewhat normal depending on the electrical system.

I live in an neighborhood developed in the 40's. There are about NINE houses on a single tranformer. The system was started in the 20's and added to over the years. My very small house has been completely rebuilt and rewired professtionally  with a 200 amp service and the lights occaisionally dim when the neighbors AC kicks on.

If they FLICKER I would be concerned. If the get BRIGHTER, I would be VERY concerned.


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## KJC (Jan 4, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Thank you for responding to my post. I will try to answer your questions the best I can. To start, when I rehabbed the unit, I did not replace all of the electrical or the electric panel. The only thing the electrician did was replace all of the outlets as they were old and dirty and I wanted new white ones. The unit does have its own electric panel (a Zinsco), within the unit. The condo complex is apartment-style, so my unit does not have its own heather or hot water heater. There are two wall air conditioning units, however these have not been in-use since it is cold this time of year in Michigan. From what I can tell by playing with the circuits, there are only a few circuits that operate the rooms of the unit. One circuit goes to the kitchen, on which the dishwasher, refrigerator, kitchen light, and kitchen outlets operate. Another circuit goes to the living room where my tenant has a television and a few floor lamps. The primary bedroom is also on the living room circuit, where there are a number of outlets and one ceiling light. 

I am not sure if any of the other units have any problems. I am going to assume no because they appear to be pretty sensitive people and I would think they would be constantly complaining to the management people about such a problem. 

To answer the question about the flickering or dimming, they flicker. It is both ceiling lights and floor lights connected to outlets. 

Again, thanks for everyone's help!


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

You probably need additonal circuts and may bee a panel up grade , but first thing to do is pull the zinsco breakers out and look for burnt/ pitted buss bars sometines you cant pull them off too easily also look for discoloration on the braker case.If this the case the panel got hot and will never hold brakers again. check the meter center for the same thing


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

KJC said:


> To start, when I rehabbed the unit, I did not replace all of the electrical or the electric panel. The only thing the electrician did was replace all of the outlets as they were old and dirty and I wanted new white ones. The unit does have its own electric panel (a Zinsco), within the unit.


NOT replacing/upgrading/updating the electric was a faux pas.
Sure it saved you "some" money then, but from your description it sounds woefully inadequate to me (BTW, I am actually a licensed EC in NJ). I am actually surprised that some sort of updating was not required by the city/municipality there.

That is water under the bridge now, so there is no point to beating you up over it now. Hopefully, your next project will result in a smoother finished project.




KJC said:


> I am not sure if any of the other units have any problems. I am going to assume no because they appear to be pretty sensitive people and I would think they would be constantly complaining to the management people about such a problem.


The management company, nor the HOA, is concerned with problems encountered within the confines of the four walls you own - unless it affects the owner of another four walls... ie, a water leak.




KJC said:


> To answer the question about the flickering or dimming, they flicker. It is both ceiling lights and floor lights connected to outlets.


It "sounds" to me as if something is loose "somewhere"....the "somewhere" could be anywhere from the main that feeds the complex....to connections within your metering/panel...to connections on devices/fixtures.


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## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

*Loose Neutral*

In addition to all the great ideas above

It seems like when all is pondered it always comes back to the *loose common neutral* somewhere in a box (light,rec.). Knowing that you replaced receptacles and probably fixtures I would take a big guess and say the main neutral (on the flickering circuit) is not wired nutted secure. I would start with closest Fixture box or rec. box to the panel (on that circuit)and open and check each neutral connection then work farther away til you find it. Giiod luck. Its kind of a guessing game til you find it. 

Seems like thats it 80% of the time for me. 

2cents


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

Problems always the last thing you find:clap:.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

cmec said:


> Problems always the last thing you find:clap:.


No, the solutions are the last thing I find. :laughing:


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

KJC said:


> Thank you for responding to my post. I will try to answer your questions the best I can. To start, when I rehabbed the unit, I did not replace all of the electrical or the electric panel. The only thing the electrician did was replace all of the outlets as they were old and dirty and I wanted new white ones. The unit does have its own electric panel (a Zinsco), within the unit. The condo complex is apartment-style, so my unit does not have its own heather or hot water heater. There are two wall air conditioning units, however these have not been in-use since it is cold this time of year in Michigan. From what I can tell by playing with the circuits, there are only a few circuits that operate the rooms of the unit. One circuit goes to the kitchen, on which the dishwasher, refrigerator, kitchen light, and kitchen outlets operate. Another circuit goes to the living room where my tenant has a television and a few floor lamps. The primary bedroom is also on the living room circuit, where there are a number of outlets and one ceiling light.
> 
> I am not sure if any of the other units have any problems. I am going to assume no because they appear to be pretty sensitive people and I would think they would be constantly complaining to the management people about such a problem.
> 
> ...


 
I would start by getting rid of that panel, they aren't known for being reliable.


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## jrclen (Jul 10, 2007)

I think an experienced electrician is going to have to see the flicker. All flickers are not created equal in my experience. And each type can have a different cause. This could be tough to trouble shoot over the internet. After reading the thread I would lean toward the loose connection theory. But seeing the flicker and noting any other conditions (windy for instance or a brush type old motor running) might help narrow down the places to look. Or we could just suppose and toss out ideas for days. JMHO.


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## hatchet man (Jan 21, 2008)

I'm no electrician but had a simialr problem in a rental of mine. I traced it to the Zinsco panel and the breaker was sparking on the bus bar. Can't remeber how I fixed it, maybe I just pinced the contacts on the breacker for a tighter fit. Haven't heard from the renters yet, knock on wood.


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

The flickering is a sign of a bad connection somewhere. Bad connections can get hot and start fires. Have the service replaced first, then if it continues have the electrician go over all the branch wiring connections and remove/replace any non-professional wiring. That the electrician hasn't done this already is usually an indication that you've said you don't want to spend a lot of money on it. Tell the electrician money is no object, you want it fixed right and it'll get fixed right.

Dave


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

hatchet man said:


> I'm no electrician ...Haven't heard from the renters yet, knock on wood.


Maybe they are dead?
:laughing:


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## hatchet man (Jan 21, 2008)

Maybe, but rent payment made it this month. It's a circuit to a shed/ out building not to the house itself. Yeah, I know it should be redone, kinda waiting for tennant change when its empty.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

Tiger said:


> Tell the electrician money is no object, you want it fixed right and it'll get fixed right.


I like hearing that money is no object. :thumbsup:


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## jrclen (Jul 10, 2007)

JohnJ0906 said:


> I like hearing that money is no object. :thumbsup:


My favorite kind of job. Anything can be fixed with enough money thrown at it. Unless it's a government problem. :whistling


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