# how many times do you call?



## pro exteriors (Feb 12, 2012)

Theron said:


> Follow up 1 time & 1 time only,people play a lot of games out there.Give the bid and keep it moving bcs there are other jobs waiting.if you don't get then that job wasn't for you.The price is what it is if your bidding right,which is labor vs materials.I charge accordingly to how many days and men vs the materials.


Yes that's exactly how I bid also.


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## Handyman3970 (Nov 21, 2010)

Once. If they can't be bothered to call back or follow up with you, they aren't serious. I'm not spending half my waking days to chase people down.


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## gastek (Mar 29, 2011)

I think this is why everyone should charge for bids/estimates. Make it refundable or whatever if you get the job but they should pay for your time. Now I don't know if the OP did charge them or not but 6 hours is a large chunk of his time to waste doing a bid and then the guy dodges him.

CHARGE something for estimates/bids or whatever you call it. Only those serious about the work will pay and have you come out.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

pro exteriors said:


> Yes he did, that's why even if I don't get the job I would still like to get ahold of him to force him to grow some balls and tell me he decided to hire someone else or whatever the case is instead of just letting him waste almost a full day of my time and agree to meet with me to go over the bid and then when the time comes he just ignores my calls without any explanation at all like my time isn't worth anything.


Stop with that right now before it's too late. 

The more you chase the guy the more desperate you look and the less he figures he can get you for. He sounds like the kind of guy that will shop for the lowest price until he finds it. Then whatever that price is he'll figure it's still too much and hound the lucky "winner" to give him even more for his money by withholding the last payment until he's satisfied the teat is dry. Then he'll say, this is all I'm paying with the last turn of the screw.

I just lost an opportunity to do a full gut bathroom because they talked to a couple of guys that would do it for $3500 if the client did the demo and supplied all materials. I wished them luck and said goodbye. Moving on. As you should too. 

Good Luck
Dave


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

That always sucks to not hear back from them after spending time on the bid but thats the nature of the job. I only call once maybe twice to follow up with a bid. Any more and you sound desperate, I feel. I hate spending 4-8 hrs on bids but thats what you signed up for. The only good thing is now if someone wants a similur job done you can whip up a bid faster. I do the numbers for my bids in excel and save them. That way if a job type comes up close to another I can just change the numbers around.


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## pro exteriors (Feb 12, 2012)

RadRemod said:


> That always sucks to not hear back from them after spending time on the bid but thats the nature of the job. I only call once maybe twice to follow up with a bid. Any more and you sound desperate, I feel. I hate spending 4-8 hrs on bids but thats what you signed up for. The only good thing is now if someone wants a similur job done you can whip up a bid faster. I do the numbers for my bids in excel and save them. That way if a job type comes up close to another I can just change the numbers around.


Yeah I will keep the estimate for future reference. Looking back on it my gut told me he wasn't serious etc. so I learned for next time to just ball park the bid until I know the customer is serious then take the time to make out a detailed bid. Thanks everyone for your opinions. I learned a lot from this experience and this forum.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

similar situation. guy called yesterday after I gave him my business card in October. said he wants his house done and wants to meet up today so I can look at prints.

called him 3 times,left voicemail(due to fact that I am outta town next 5 days or so).

Never recieved call back just yet.

At this point,just waiting game,ball is on his side of the cort.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I will call once after we have met and I have given them the proposal personally. If I don't get a call back I place the file back in the drawer. I have had to force myself to do a better job pre-qualifing clients before I spend time on a proposal. Most of our clients are word of mouth so I don't chase too many. Most are willing to wait for us...the tire kickers are pretty easy to pick out.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

I call back a couple of times. Then I put it away. If I do not hear from them in a week or so, I call them. Maybe its the timing, or Willies outline he gave me to use, but I get the job almost everytime on the first call. 

I do get the cold calls on how much to do some job that I would rather not do. After awhile , the '' this is a tire kicker'' vibe comes on and I charge way more then it worth to me. Most times they move on, which saves me the wasted time talking to them.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

*Followup Calls*

Nate, your big screw up was giving a price out over the phone. Huge mistake. Zig Ziglar says: "Never talk about the price until you establish the value".That's probably one of the most important tips I've ever received regarding sales. In your case, you've invested 6 hours of your time working up a tight price and then you blurted out the price without having any chance at closing the deal. 

Another mistake you made is your response to his "I'll pay cash for a discount" offer. Instead of treating that as a negative, look at the bright side: if he pays you cash, the check can't bounce can it? So, you should have enthusiastically agreed to discount for cash, and then just priced things normally. If you can't do that because of guilt, just discount the job $5 and tell him: I can get this job done for $***xx and that includes a significant cash discount! 

Since I'm on a roll noting your mistakes, I'd like to toss another out. When you were at your initial interview, you passed up a golden opportunity to set a firm followup date. During the interview, they are very anxious to get to the next step and find out what the actual price is. They will never be more motivated to set a firm appointment for the followup meeting. Remember, in sales, every time you meet, or call, a lead, your number one priority is to set the next appointment. If you're not getting the start date, you want the opportunity to meet again close the deal. 

One of the "tricks of the trade" is to always hold something back. That should be easy on a 45k addition. It might be something like additional information on a storm door or brick color. Usually, in the initial interview, the customer will ask some question about the product or installation. Sometimes, it's wise to tell him, "I'm not 100% sure about that. I'll call the supplier tomorrow and get that information for you." That gives you the perfect opportunity to make a call and leave a message such as "Hello Mr Smith, I've got that siding information. I'd like to come by and show you the samples.". That's a much better call than "Hi Mr Smith. I was wondering if you wanted to sign that deal with me for 45K?" 

Lastly, don't listen to those guys who tell you not to call. You've invested 6 hours. On this one, call the guy until you get a no. On the next one, set the appointment before you ever leave his house. 

By the way, I just had a customer try to get the information from me over the phone today. We couldn't set up the followup appointment in our first meeting because she had to figure out what her schedule was going to be. When I called her to figure out when we could meet, she pried a little. I told her that I had to double check a couple items on her house and verify some conditions to ensure that I could give her my most competitive price. The end result of our conversation? I have my followup appointment tomorrow morning. I told her I need about 30 minutes to go over some things and look at some options.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

*Options are a sales guy's best friend.*

Nate, on a 45k addition, you probably could have several options that will either lower the price or raise it. That puts you in a very good position to set an appointment to go over the various options, which of course will alter the price. When your lead asked you about the price, your answer should have been, "Mr Smith, before I can zero in on the exact price, you and I will have to spend a few minutes discussing a couple of different options that I think you'll be pleased with. Lets plan on meeting for about 30 minutes on Wednesday. Would you prefer a morning or afternoon appointment?"

If he attempts to discuss it over the phone, simply tell him, "I'd love to get this hashed out over the phone but I'm heading into a meeting right now and don't have the time. Besides, I have some product samples that I need to share with you and there's some details that aren't conducive to a phone conversation. I'll only need about 30 minutes of your time. Will Wednesday afternoon work for you?"


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## pro exteriors (Feb 12, 2012)

jimAKAblue said:


> Nate, your big screw up was giving a price out over the phone. Huge mistake. Zig Ziglar says: "Never talk about the price until you establish the value".That's probably one of the most important tips I've ever received regarding sales. In your case, you've invested 6 hours of your time working up a tight price and then you blurted out the price without having any chance at closing the deal.
> 
> Another mistake you made is your response to his "I'll pay cash for a discount" offer. Instead of treating that as a negative, look at the bright side: if he pays you cash, the check can't bounce can it? So, you should have enthusiastically agreed to discount for cash, and then just priced things normally. If you can't do that because of guilt, just discount the job $5 and tell him: I can get this job done for $***xx and that includes a significant cash discount!
> 
> ...


Jim, that is some great advice and I've been in this industry a long time but only been in business a year now so I know I've got a lot to learn about the business side of things so you pointing out my mistakes is more than welcome. I think you are right about setting up the next appointment at the first one etc. to keep things moving forward. I totally agree that I messed up by giving the price over the phone, I normally never do that. I always meet with my customers in person to form a relationship with them from the start whether its for a $45k exterior restoration or a $500 window job and to explain my price, what to look for in the other bids they may be getting to make sure they are comparing apples to apples etc, etc. I try to educate my customers rather than sell them something, I believe if they are properly educated on their project they will choose me.

I'm not sure if he is just a tire kicker or what the deal is. He said his mom just died and he and his brother inherited the house and wanted to update the exterior with maintenance free materials (all wood now including old wood windows) so maybe the price was just way more than he thought it would be or something. Since you have given me one of the best answers so far let me ask you this, being in the situation I'm in, assuming I can get ahold of him (I'm going to try again the end of this week and then if I don't see anyone else doing anything on the house in a month or two I will try and call him again) or he contacts me in the future what advice would you give me on closing the deal this time? This would be a fantastic, profitable job so I would like to get it if at all possible without turning into a desparate stalker trying to get ahold of him, lol.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

Nate, as I mentioned before, don't be afraid to haunt the guy until you get an answer. Get a yes, or a no. 

Most contractors don't understand that they wear many hats, including a sales hat. Or, they choose to ignore this reality. A full time sales guy would not be thinking "I'll call the guy once and if he doesn't return my call, I'll just stuff the file in the cabinet and forget it." Sales is a tough job and the good sales guys get the business because they work hard at it. They are aggressive in closing the sales. They get the business and the file gathers dust in the other guy's file cabinet. You have to choose which guy you want to be. 

At this point, the key to getting him to call you back is to leave a message that makes him curious about what you have for him. You screwed up: now it's time to pull out all the stops. You need to get back in front of him, somehow: use an alternate number, or drop by, or concoct a discount. Do something.


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## pro exteriors (Feb 12, 2012)

jimAKAblue said:


> Nate, as I mentioned before, don't be afraid to haunt the guy until you get an answer. Get a yes, or a no.
> 
> Most contractors don't understand that they wear many hats, including a sales hat. Or, they choose to ignore this reality. A full time sales guy would not be thinking "I'll call the guy once and if he doesn't return my call, I'll just stuff the file in the cabinet and forget it." Sales is a tough job and the good sales guys get the business because they work hard at it. They are aggressive in closing the sales. They get the business and the file gathers dust in the other guy's file cabinet. You have to choose which guy you want to be.
> 
> At this point, the key to getting him to call you back is to leave a message that makes him curious about what you have for him. You screwed up: now it's time to pull out all the stops. You need to get back in front of him, somehow: use an alternate number, or drop by, or concoct a discount. Do something.


Yeah I'm going to try calling from a different number. If I can't get him on the phone what do you think about leaving a voicemail saying something like "I recalculated a few things and I think I can get the price down a little bit from what I originally quoted you, so give me a call back and we can go over the details"? I'm glad someone on here told me to try and get ahold of him because I spent a lot of time on that bid, I feel I deserve a yes or no and I'm not afraid to fight for each and every job especially one this big. No I'm not going to turn into a stalker because its just not my personality to harass someone but I just don't like giving up so easy.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

Only make an offer like that as a last resort. I'd try stalking first.


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## pro exteriors (Feb 12, 2012)

jimAKAblue said:


> Only make an offer like that as a last resort. I'd try stalking first.


He does have I nice front porch I could just hang out there until he gets off work hahaha. When I gave him the price over the phone I honestly didn't remember the actual price so I just told him low 40's. The actual bid came to $40,104 (almost 45k with the roof but he wasn't sure if he wanted to replace that or not) but he doesn't know that so for all he knows it was originally 43k or something and now I "lowered" it to an even 40k. So he thinks he's getting a deal and it might get him to call me back. And because I don't want to lie I would technically be lowering the price from 40,104 to 40k


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Honestly I used to be like that...by lowering my price I tried getting jobs I really wanted (and succeeded a lot of times)...mainly because I was hungry for money and success...but you should try(even though its hard) and look at it from prespective of how much money you losing by lowering your bid,not how much money you making by getting the job.

Dentist doesnt give discounts,neither does lawyer...either or can very well happen depending how this thing plays out for you...good luck.


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## Aframe (Mar 24, 2008)

Tell him, prices from suppliers are going up, which they probably will on siding and roofing if the oil keeps going up, and to take advantage of todays pricing you would need to order materials by ______ .


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## gastek (Mar 29, 2011)

pro exteriors said:


> He said his mom just died and he and his brother inherited the house and wanted to update the exterior with maintenance free materials (all wood now including old wood windows) so maybe the price was just way more than he thought it would be or something.


Sounds like you were talking to only one half of the homeowner. If his brother or other family members are involved good luck. One will want this, one wants that, and none of them can agree.

This guy probably went back to his brother and he might have scrapped it or maybe his moms will hasn't been taken care of yet and he's jumping the gun. Lots of variables here.


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## eastend (Jan 24, 2006)

if a customer wants to pay via cash, what's the problem? Cash is not illegal or "under the table". Cash is a form of payment. What you do with it is another story because not reporting income is a no-no.
You can use them wanting to pay cash as a marketing point, maybe as a way of lowering your price a bit. You get the benefit of knowing the funds are good, (there's no check to bounce). That right there may be worth something.
Sometimes letting them think they are getting a great bargain by paying cash helps seal the deal.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

eastend said:


> if a customer wants to pay via cash, what's the problem? Cash is not illegal or "under the table". Cash is a form of payment. What you do with it is another story because not reporting income is a no-no.
> You can use them wanting to pay cash as a marketing point, maybe as a way of lowering your price a bit. You get the benefit of knowing the funds are good, (there's no check to bounce). That right there may be worth something.
> Sometimes letting them think they are getting a great bargain by paying cash helps seal the deal.


They often want to pay cash to lower their cost because they expect you to not report it, they usually follow up with the line "then you don't have to pay taxes on it". Your pay schedule is set up wrong if you have issues with payments. Try working for people who don't have money issues and you won't have bounced checks, I've never had one in 8 years, if I did, work would stop on their project till the situation was fixed.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

jimAKAblue said:


> Nate, your big screw up was giving a price out over the phone. Huge mistake. Zig Ziglar says: "Never talk about the price until you establish the value".That's probably one of the most important tips I've ever received regarding sales. In your case, you've invested 6 hours of your time working up a tight price and then you blurted out the price without having any chance at closing the deal.
> 
> Another mistake you made is your response to his "I'll pay cash for a discount" offer. Instead of treating that as a negative, look at the bright side: if he pays you cash, the check can't bounce can it? So, you should have enthusiastically agreed to discount for cash, and then just priced things normally. If you can't do that because of guilt, just discount the job $5 and tell him: I can get this job done for $***xx and that includes a significant cash discount!
> 
> ...


Jim has some good advice in there.

I very rarely follow up unless someone has paid for a consultation and has not responded to my replies. At that point, I've already been paid for information and I want to deliver it.

This shows me that some people are flaky, they will pay hundreds of dollars for a consultation on a project they are hot on and then suddenly abandon it for some reason. I don't care, because I've been paid but it goes to show you that if someone is PAYING for a price and don't get back to you, if you give it them for FREE and they don't get back to you, it's no big deal.

*Treat everything that you do as strictly business and you'll be in good shape. Emotions of any sort have no place in what we do and it's why a lot of contractors get into trouble.*

Dollars and cents. Just like any other business you deal with.:thumbup:


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