# 3" and 4" copper



## Reading pa (Nov 12, 2011)

Has any one solder 3" and 4" inch copper. Is it like solder 1" copper 
We got a job coming up and we got to solder 2- 3" joints at 6- 4" joints are there any tricks to it. Work slow and he taking bigger jobs we do a lot of homes


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Couple of torches and it is the same. You will need another guy unless you have a positionable torch. I have 3" copper in my basement.


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

Leo G said:


> Couple of torches and it is the same. You will need another guy unless you have a positionable torch. I have 3" copper in my basement.



Yea buts that probably DWV copper..


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

It is.


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## Reading pa (Nov 12, 2011)

It type L copper 3" and 4"


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

The principles of soldering don't change with the size of the pipe, but you're going to have to be packing some serious heat to sweat those joints compared to what you're used to.

Good luck, and let us know how it went.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

My experience with the 3" + piping is that it must be brazed, or what was referred to as silfos. It is not nearly as easy as "solder" or "sweating" joints.

http://www.silfos.com/

Now being fair, the stuff we used to deal with was outside underground.

In building it may be different....



> but you're going to have to be packing some serious heat


The guys I worked with used "rosebuds" on an oxy/acetylene set up.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

I've done miles of it in hospitals.

For water distribution most people use a mechanical joint like a rolled joint for example.

If you need to sweat that diameter I would suggest pure acetylene. I would also suggest a large torch tip. 

One of the problems associated with a smaller tip and less heat is the joint tends to solder up in spots. Your goal of course is to have the ENTIRE joint flow. A larger area means hotter flame and a larger tip.

When soldering something larger like this you have to go back to remembering how soldering actually works. Soldering works off the principle of "capillary action". If you remember from plumbing school it's like a piece glass. You put a small drop of water in the middle of the glass and set another piece of glass on top and suddenly the entire area is covered by the single drop of water.

Similar to the water, the liquid solder spreads through this capillary action if the joint is tight of course, but the difference is the ability of the pipe to be hot enough to flow. With a smaller torch tip and a lower heat the solder starts to prematurely cool and prevents the rest of the solder from flowing correctly. This creates voids in the joint, a very easy thing to happen.

The torch tip I would recommend is Turbo Torch A-14 quick disconnect.

Mike


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

What state are you from BTW?

Mike


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I'd guess that he's from Reading, Pennsylvania. :whistling:


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

im gonna guess hes from the same state the old man is from...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

rex said:


> im gonna guess hes from the same state the old man is from...


Distress? :blink:


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Tinstaafl said:


> I'd guess that he's from Reading, Pennsylvania. :whistling:


What makes you think that? Are you like psychic or something?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Ahhhh, ok. Don't mind the idiot in the room.........:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

We never do :whistling


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Leo G said:


> We never do :whistling


You sound like my wife


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

tgeb said:


> My experience with the 3" + piping is that it must be brazed, or what was referred to as silfos. It is not nearly as easy as "solder" or "sweating" joints.


You can soft solder it above ground, but it is a hell of a lot faster and cheaper to groove it and use victaulic fittings.


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## Builderbob 72 (Dec 15, 2010)

Why not just use a Sharkbite? :jester:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> You can soft solder it above ground, but it is a hell of a lot faster and cheaper to groove it and use victaulic fittings.


The purchase of the roll groover and fitting for a couple joints may off-set the cost of torch time.



> The torch tip I would recommend is Turbo Torch A-14 quick disconnect.


A single tip for a 4" pipe?

I hate soldering 1/2" with a single tip.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Interesting, I've never actually seen that or even heard of that before. 3 & 4" is actually not really that big. A little larger tip with some heat and you can sweet the joint very quickly.

If you have the machine and its financially in the cards using Vic is really quick and installs really nice.

That torch tip sure is something though. Lol


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Interesting, I've never actually seen that or even heard of that before.


I've got one with my acetylene torch set and its the cats meow for copper. I could see it being annoying for plumbers as its a little bulky to get into some spaces.

Only reason I have one was for working with my father on commercial refrigerators.


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

Im with Mike on this... Get a B-tank and a turbo torch... No problem sweating it... Dont overheat and burn the flux out.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> I've got one with my acetylene torch set and its the cats meow for copper. I could see it being annoying for plumbers as its a little bulky to get into some spaces.
> 
> Only reason I have one was for working with my father on commercial refrigerators.


I bet if I was set up on a project prefabbing that would be a fast way to handle it. 

I did a couple large projects a few years ago where we used a T-drill to prefab a bunch of mains that were going up in large hallways and corridors. If I remember it was 2" and had a 3/4" feed every 6'. We T-drilled, tested, and insulated it all before it went up. We did hundreds of them like this. 

With that torch tip I could of connected the mains together and used it to sweat the coupling. That would of been pretty fast I bet.

Mike


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> The purchase of the roll groover and fitting for a couple joints may off-set the cost of torch time.


We order it from the supply house cut to length and grooved, ready to install off the truck, the fee they charge to groove it is nominal compared to the labor cost to cut, clean, and solder the joint, and they are a union shop.


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## Markford (Jun 22, 2011)

The guys who are running my 6" copper are all using an oxy acetylene with the rosebud as mentioned before. 

They are using soft solder, but they are heating like one normally does to braze/silver solder.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Getting it red hot for low temp solder? Sounds excessive.


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## Markford (Jun 22, 2011)

It doesnt stay red for long is the issue. That 6" dissapates quickly. More of a red on one side, then begin heating the other, as the first side cools and the other heats, there is a point where they will end up 'matching' and then apply.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

You never want to heat it till it's red. The solder will never take to it. I have used my mapp torch a few times to solder up 3" toilet flange elbows and it worked fine. You just have to make sure you get that heat around the whole area your trying to flow the solder.


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

Markford said:


> It doesnt stay red for long is the issue. That 6" dissapates quickly. More of a red on one side, then begin heating the other, as the first side cools and the other heats, there is a point where they will end up 'matching' and then apply.


Why not just silver solder... No cleaning, no fluxing, no worries.... I dont know how they can get soft solder to flow after heating copper until it's glowing red.


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