# Helical Piles/Failing Foundation



## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

Sorry I don't get to post much, but I figured I could get some honest opinions on here. 

I know nothing about helical piles, or underpinning or fixing a foundation that has failed this bad, hence my questions here. So don't scold me for taking this on. It might be my personal home at some point. 

I bought an REO house that the homeowners stopped paying on once the foundation began to fail. 2 years ago had they addressed the problem it wouldn't be nearly as bad and would have probably cost half the price. 

Anyhow, the house is brick about 1/2 way up before its finished off with siding on the other half. All the brickwork on one side has fallen off, mostly in one large piece. The brickwork on the other side is starting to fall off but its in a big V that runs from one corner to about 3/4 the way down the length of the house (30' long) that goes from bottom to top (about 5' high). Looking at the footer on the one side of the house, the entire thing has fallen into the basement. So you can see directly into the basement with nothing on that end. It appears as that wing of the house has dropped about 6". The house is a single story in the shape of an L. Built on 3 acres but whoever built it picked the worse spot, about 10' from a creek. 

So my question is, rather then using hydraulic jacks to hold it in place from underneath, excavating, removing the entire footer and wall that is failing, and digging deeper and wider to build a new, more stable footer, is it possible to get a helical pile in such a tight spot without jacking the house up significantly and having to cut it apart from the other half of the house? Ideally 4 or 5 piles along the one side, which is about 20' long. I would think that's the best way to get deep down to eliminate this problem from happening again. Then doing the same to the back section, which is roughly 40' long. 

So is that possible or would the house need jacked up significantly in order to get the house high enough to get a machine in there to drive the piles? 

Thanks in advance.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

IMO and by the sound of it, not to mention since the purchase price was approximately the cost of the lot value, I would take everything out and start from scratch.

Hire and engineer, do soil test, come up with a good footing design and save yourself a s^*t load of headaches.

Good luck


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

It should be possible. That being said it might not be practical. 

Where are you located?


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## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

PA Dan. Not crazy far from you. A little past State College.

Greg, Not as cheap as I wanted, but cheap enough to justify it. I did consider that but I was hoping to avoid it.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Do you have pictures you can get on here?


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## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

Yes I do Dan. I will upload them tomorrow morning when I get back after 11am.


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## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

Dan.....apparently my phone pictures are to high quality. Any other way to attach them here? I don't have a laptop till my new one arrives in order to change the quality to reduce file size.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

tgeb and nuccio have done a lot of these...hopefully they'll post some suggestions for you


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Nuccio has likely done more of these than I have, but I'll put in my nickel's worth.

The helicals can be installed from the outside of the foundation, so space should not be an issue, though I have seen the helical guy in spaces as small as a one car garage.

Since the house has dropped 6" you will need to jack and shore that wing as you called it. 

I would imagine an engineer will direct you to jack and shore, demo the bad walls, install helical piers, then build a grade beam footing spanning the piers, rebuild block and brick wall.

It can get expensive, have someone look it over and see if it makes cents to save this structure, or demo and build in another location on the lot.

I'm looking forward to the pics.....


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Drgrafix said:


> Dan.....apparently my phone pictures are to high quality. Any other way to attach them here? I don't have a laptop till my new one arrives in order to change the quality to reduce file size.


Try a hosting site, like photobucket.com


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## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

http://s50.photobucket.com/user/drgrafix44/library/?sort=3&page=1


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

For everyone's pleasure.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Knock that f'ing thing down.


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## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

Sorry but I disagree with that. 

First, building permits here are a pain which means if it was knocked down, they may not issue a permit to rebuild where it would need to be, to keep the house the same. 

Sure it would be easier, but regardless, the next footer that would be poured there, is going to need to be seriously redesigned. 

The fact that the roof, windows, and the addition itself is all under 10 years old makes it hard for me to justify a total tear down. To me cutting off the end 12' or so might be the best course of action until a new footer is built. 

But I'm always open to ideas.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Let's say you could get helical piles in there to hold it up. Then what?

Aside from the foundation, do you have any knowledge of how the house stands up to a good rain?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

You need to find out why it settled and address that first.


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## NJGC (Apr 5, 2014)

Tear that mother down!.....Looks like junk construction anyhow and with a low crawl hole like you have there, foundation repairs seem foolish besides I'm willing to bet it has no real footing anyway so the whole thing is probably at risk of doing the same. Do yourself a favor and build a real foundation after doing a soil study etc and build new. It only costs a little bit more to go first class...just sayin.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Well, if you want to save it, get the engineer out there and come up with a plan.

I'd start with some test borings to see what is underground and go from there with the sequence I outlined earlier.

Get some pipe on those downspouts. All that brick needs to come off, I don't see a single brick tie on the whole wall. No anchor bolts in the foundation..... 

Where is this located?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Here is one installed on the exterior, however, the house only needed to be raised 1/8", doesn't sound like much but the casement window above wouldn't close, that was the only evidence we had of the house settling/sinking. Not sure if it would work for 6"


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## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Let's say you could get helical piles in there to hold it up. Then what?
> 
> Aside from the foundation, do you have any knowledge of how the house stands up to a good rain?


I'm going to assume your talking about does the basement get wet... They have drainage cut out of the cement and a sump pump which is missing. So I'd bet it gets wet. Most houses around here do though when they are older.



Californiadecks said:


> You need to find out why it settled and address that first.


To me, without doing any digging, It really appears as the foundation isn't on an actual footer below the frost line. Just looking at it, it appears that the block goes so far then stops.



tgeb said:


> Well, if you want to save it, get the engineer out there and come up with a plan.
> 
> I'd start with some test borings to see what is underground and go from there with the sequence I outlined earlier.
> 
> ...


This is in PA. Not far from State College. Right now I can't do anything to the property until I take possession. Closing is 2 weeks out. It has sat vacant, slowly starting to look like this, since 2009. When the homeowners noticed the problem, they stopped making the payments, then up and moved out of state. Taking the copper and the furnace with them!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

If you can get a permit, put a good foundation in in a better spot, and move the house.

OTOH, depending on the soil, helicals may be the best bet no matter the location.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

NJGC said:


> and with a low crawl hole like you have there,


There is where there isn't enough info. He says that's an addition. The second picture shows a window well under the other part of the foundation, so there may be a good foundation and cellar under part of the house, and a quick and very dirty (almost) crawlspace for the addition.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Helical can be installed almost anywhere. 










Retrofit an elevator shaft in an old bank. No Problem.










There is no way there is any structural integrity in that foundation. It is pointless to salvage it. If you are dead set on saving the house the only option would be to temporarily support the house, install a new foundation and set the house on it.

That new foundation will need to be designed and built based on a geotech study and investigation done by a PE to figure out why the existing foundation failed. It could have been poor building, a lack of footing, an overdig by the excavator and someone backfilled improperly, poor soil conditions, and the list goes on, or any combination of them. 

This is a project that needs to be value engineered but just that process is going to cost a considerable amount of money. Then the cost of the foundation repairs, which is always going to be more than new, and then the repairs to the house. 

Not talking you out of it, just saying it may not be the best route. Hell I would come do the helical if you are going forward with the project.


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## Drgrafix (Jan 31, 2013)

hdavis said:


> There is where there isn't enough info. He says that's an addition. The second picture shows a window well under the other part of the foundation, so there may be a good foundation and cellar under part of the house, and a quick and very dirty (almost) crawlspace for the addition.


Funny as it is, the window wells go into the crawl space, that's it. the entire 35' section was the addition and they put those wells in and about 4" of each is under dirt. 

Dan, I'm simply trying to save the roof, some of the framing, the wiring, and the plumbing. the foundation is a total loss, and I figure just pour a new one, around the piles.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Drgrafix said:


> Funny as it is, the window wells go into the crawl space, that's it. the entire 35' section was the addition and they put those wells in and about 4" of each is under dirt.
> 
> Dan, I'm simply trying to save the roof, some of the framing, the wiring, and the plumbing. the foundation is a total loss, and I figure just pour a new one, around the piles.


Step one - find a PE that can do the investigation, read a geotech report, and design a proper foundation. 

Step two - salvage what you have. Lock it together and get it supported as per the PE.

Step three - Demo (whats left)

Step four - find the appropriate contractors to put it back together as the engineer prescribes.

It is a little more complicated than that but thats the gist of it.


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## Nac (Apr 16, 2006)

Dan_Watson said:


> Step one - find a PE that can do the investigation, read a geotech report, and design a proper foundation.
> 
> Step two - salvage what you have. Lock it together and get it supported as per the PE.
> 
> ...


Good advice. Get an engineer to check the structure out and give you a recommendation on the remediation process to fix the problem. From their you can have contractors price out the solution or they can come up with an alternate solution but will need some info first.


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