# Wallpaper and Guardz



## Txbassboy (Oct 31, 2006)

Have a friend that is remodeling and has wallpaper 4 feet up from floor. Maybe 20-30 lineal feet that needs removal or gardz My painter says that it is not necessary to remove the paper. He is going to apply Gardz,skim coat the entire wall, texture with skip trial (stucco look). Is this going to work? The paper is very well adhered to walls. Current texture is "knock down".

Any advice?


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

You reaaaallly want to remove that wallpaper

The only time you want to go over it, is when it's direct to rock -no paint/primer- and removing it is actually bringing down the sheetrock


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## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

I agree with Slick. You are adding a lot more weight then that wallpaper paste was ever meant to hold. If it fails you will have a real mess to deal with.

Jim Bunton


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

and down the road when it DOES fail and some poor sucka (like me) has to remove it, you and your family for three generations will be cursed.

Seriously, what's the problem with removing? If prepared correctly under, it's a peice of cake ..... if you know what you are doing. If I had a painter that advised not to strip such a small amount but wanted to Gardz over it, I would wonder about his professionalism. (Just my opinion)

And BTW, the product is spelled Gardz - no biggie, just a pet peeve of mine.


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## Tmrrptr (Mar 22, 2007)

It is BEST to remove it.
If the painter will guarantee his quickie, present the matter to the client.
Do they want to save $500 ?

I would go over it, but no guarantee... It's only a quickie cheapo fix.
A sheetrock surface will only support so much.

Here it is again... quality, service, and price.
Is it best to keep it simple, or add liability and reputation to the KISS ?
r


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

i agree remove, then skim.


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## Thewallfixer (Apr 18, 2006)

Txbassboy said:


> Have a friend that is remodeling and has wallpaper 4 feet up from floor. Maybe 20-30 lineal feet that needs removal or gardz My painter says that it is not necessary to remove the paper. He is going to apply Gardz,skim coat the entire wall, texture with skip trial (stucco look). Is this going to work? The paper is very well adhered to walls. Current texture is "knock down".
> 
> Any advice?


I recently used Gardz, and then skim coated it with setting type joint compound, you can't even tell there was wall paper there now that it has a coat of primer and two coats of wall paint.

Normally I will remove the wall paper, but when I was removing it it tore off the paper on the drywall, making a holy mess.

Gardz is good.


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## Txbassboy (Oct 31, 2006)

Information is only good if you use it.:no: I gave my buddy everyones comments and working experiences with and with out Gardz. He goes to HD they don't have it so they sell him oil based Killz. I'll update the progress. On a side not they decided to stay with a knock down texture to match the rest. Not that it will matter much now but should he have primed the entire wall not affected by the paper?:jester:


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I have used oil based Kilz with no problem so far. But I do try to remove all the paper I can. Can't find Gardz here. I do see Bin shellac based primer at lowe's.


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## kgphoto (May 9, 2006)

To get Gardz, you have to go to a real paint store.


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## Nigel S. Shorts (Jul 21, 2007)

> To get Gardz, you have to go to a real paint store.


That's true here in LA, and I don't get that a big company like Zinsser can't get this product in a big box store. Granted, it's a specialty product, but it has so much upside once you learn how it'll benefit you. 

Having said that, I prefer the original drywall repair clear (DRC), Draw Tite, which spawned all the imitators like Gardz. But Gardz will do the trick for you.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

Thewallfixer said:


> Normally I will remove the wall paper, but when I was removing it it tore off the paper on the drywall, making a holy mess.
> 
> Gardz is good.


That's is the ONLY situation in which I (reluctantly) do not remove wallpaper: when it is pasted DIRECTLY to raw rock. Take the loose stuff off, throw on a coat of DRC (Gardz is OK), skim& sand, another coat of DRC, and continue.

Txbassboy, PLEASE before your "painter" goes ahead with his "plan" have him sign an absolute iron clad acceptance of responsibility for any failure within the next five years. It may make him think perhaps the over 100 years of accumulated knowledge here may know better.


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## Joewho (Sep 20, 2006)

Here in IL, they do have gardz at the local HD.

Sent the customers to get some, with instructions to call me if they tried to sell them kilz. Guess what? They tried to sell them kilz. 

HD had it in gallons only and the customer had to find a more experienced salesperson to get it. Probably in the wallpaper dept.


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## regal (Oct 20, 2007)

gardz is for damaged drywall where the paper of the dywall has been damaged, not for painting over wallpaper I thought.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Txbassboy said:


> ...He goes to HD they don't have it so they sell him oil based Killz...


1) Painter's don't buy paint at HD...really...that's absurd...first off their paint is crap...and, as proven by the fact that they don't carry Gardz, they have no interest is providing quality products that real painters need

2) Original Kilz is a great product, but it's a _stain blocker_ not a high performance penetrating sealer used for sealing uncoated wallpaper before painting...so once again "the guy at home depot said..." ruins another home reno project
If it actually works, the chance of later failure is high
If it actually lasts for a few years, I'd be shocked...but I suppose it could happen...but don't worry, the person doing the repaint will get hosed

3) Tell your friend the painter to get his azz to a Paint Store and ask them what they recommend before doing anymore projects


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Txbassboy said:


> ...My painter says that it is not necessary to remove the paper.....
> Any advice?


Stop listening to the painter who buys his paint and gets his advice from the "guy at home depot"


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

regal said:


> Gardz is for damaged drywall where the paper of the drywall has been damaged, not for painting over wallpaper I thought.


Regal,

YES, that is what it is being sold primarily for, hence the designation of Drywall Repair Clear (DRC) a term I believe coined by my friend Jim Parodi (Parodi on Paperhanging in PWC magazine).

Now, Mr Sticky Shorts may know the history since he buys Draw-Tite (the original DRC) direct from Scotch Paint, but if I remember correctly, Draw-tite was formulated to seal concrete. A bunch of paper hangers out in LA noticed that it would not only help seal and lock down torn drywall, but also would penetrate "builders flat" so that we could hang on top of it. (Please, you all, do not use builders flat, wallpaper WILL YANK IT RIGHT OFF THE WALL).

Draw-tite will also penetrate PAPER-paper and assist in it being locked down to the substrate. It will NOT penetrate a vinyl or vinyl coated paper. Draw-tite is also good for sealing joint compound and other porous substances.

Now, a few years ago, Zinsser approached Charles Mc(something- head of Scotch Paint) and offered him a good sum to buy the formula. Charles (a crusty young bat) told Zinsser to F*UCK off. After some unsavory behavior on the big Z's part to try to corner the market on the resin used, the big Z reverse engineered Draw-Tite and made their own product, Gardz. BUT, in order not to infringe on the patent, they make it with less of the important resin. I.e., they make "Draw-tite lite".

Now, don't get me wrong, Gardz does a great job, I use it myself (just TRY to buy Draw-tite in New England !), but Draw-Tite is a BETTER product. 

Some people are mixing Gardz with 1-2-3 to get the best of both words. Some are mixing Gardz with Shieldz ("Shardz") again, for the best attributes of both. I've had a disastrous result mixing Gardz and 1-2-3. Luckily it was in my own house. This is a picture of me peeling it off the wall:


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

"Best of Both Worlds" = Master of Neither


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## Txbassboy (Oct 31, 2006)

Txbassboy;I gave my buddy everyones comments and working experiences with and with out Gardz. [U said:


> He [/u]goes to HD they don't have it so they sell him oil based Killz.
> 
> I wasn't clear I guess. Friend buys the killz(in a hurry because drywall finishers are trying to mud over paper) He applys the killz on advice from HD. Actually, it's either HD or Lowes cant remember clearly now but they do sell Gardz but it was only in a quart. I actually did tell him though that the painter said it would probably be at a Benjamin Moore
> 
> When I get a chance I'll get some pic just for kicks for everyone.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

slickshift said:


> "Best of Both Worlds" = Master of Neither


 Good one Slick. I'll remember that one, but I'm not sure those who mix will be as receptive :laughing:


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