# 12x18x4 patio project



## masoneric (Jun 27, 2011)

Greg Di said:


> I want to get three days of labor from two skilled guys for $700.
> 
> Your pricing is ludicrous to the point of being insulting to real contractors who know how to charge properly and don't have to go online to ask strangers how to bid.
> 
> ...


2 Days with 2 guys. I go back the third to take off forms.

You reek of arrogance. And you came across that way easily in your post. 

Also I was already under the impression that the illegals/mexicans (whatever) had already done that to the "industry".

In truth, what has happened, is guys (like you?) charge ridiculous amounts of money and have left a whole bunch of people who cannot afford to pay that kind of money. So, guess who filled that spot eh?
Anyone?

As I stated previously, I felt if I bid the job much higher it would be a no go. Or, more likely, a mexican would have stepped in to fill that "need" that so many contractors have left. Especially in this economy. Granted though, it does seem that everyone wants crap done for next to nothing. THAT I have a problem with. But judging by the lifestyles and employment of people it is easier to tell who is wanting crap for free and who genuinely cannot afford it. 

And when it comes to having to provide for my family of 6 I won't care if I step on the toes of a local contractor. Odds are, if he can charge large amounts of money to do a job he probably doesn't need the work I'll be targeting anyways. 

Or, perhaps I should just not bother, let someone else (who WILL) do the job for that amount, take the bread off my table and my family will go with out...

Now, where is that bowing down smiley...

Oh, here it is


:notworthy


----------



## masoneric (Jun 27, 2011)

TimelessQuality said:


> Hey Eric, Thank you for your service:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Bidding is (and always has been) the hardest part for me... just takes time and practice.
> ...


Thank you. It was my honor.

I did forget to add the price of the isolation board,foam backer, and caulk to the job.

Still, better than sitting at home w/out.

I just wish I was born with that "natural" ability to bid jobs like some people 

You're onto something about staying to stamp. Wish I could give ya credit for thinking of it before me though 

But then again...
I won't be getting paid for it :whistling

Thank you for your input.


----------



## masoneric (Jun 27, 2011)

Also, I'm a Christian man and don't believe in taking advantage of people.

I have seen at least one post telling me I should have tacked on a couple hundred more. That's cool. I probably should have. 

As for any other comment about my wrong bid feel free to enlighten me as to exactly how much I SHOULD have charged, eh?

As I said I'm open to INPUT. Not flaming.


----------



## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

Don't mind Greg ... he must of had a bad day:laughing::laughing:


I'm sure what set him off was the actual numbers being in your OP. 


It is policy here not to discuss the numbers, but how you go about getting the numbers is OK:thumbsup:

What's a good price in your area, won't be the same here, and it sure as heck won't be the same as where Greg Di's at.:no:


----------



## bytor (Jan 23, 2010)

masoneric said:


> Also, since this is a small "cash job" I believed both parties could get by w/out all the...
> "technicalities" so to say.
> 
> ~Eric


Hmmm... now where did I put that number for the IRS....????


----------



## bytor (Jan 23, 2010)

masoneric said:


> Also I was already under the impression that the illegals/mexicans (whatever) had already done that to the "industry".


Seems like your doing a fine job of 'doing' it to the industry yourself... and announcing to the world that your an 'illegal'.


----------



## PSG (Oct 16, 2010)

I recommend reading Markup & Profit by Michael Stone. I think you will find that while you believe you are putting bread on the table, you are actually losing money. You won't last long if you continue this practice. Also, working for cash hurts all of us and is not fair to those who do it right. You claimed in a post that you are a Christian man, as a fellow believer I encourage you to conduct your business in an upright and legal manner.


----------



## masoneric (Jun 27, 2011)

bytor said:


> Hmmm... now where did I put that number for the IRS....????


http://www.irs.gov/

There ya go. I'm sure they can point you in the right direction.




bytor said:


> Seems like your doing a fine job of 'doing' it to the industry yourself... and announcing to the world that your an 'illegal'.


I bet around your area you're probably known as the master of "ASSumptions", eh?




PSG said:


> I recommend reading Markup & Profit by Michael Stone. I think you will find that while you believe you are putting bread on the table, you are actually losing money. You won't last long if you continue this practice. Also, working for cash hurts all of us and is not fair to those who do it right. You claimed in a post that you are a Christian man, as a fellow believer I encourage you to conduct your business in an upright and legal manner.


Duly noted. 

Now, UPDATE:

I went and looked at the actual site&people that wanted the work.

Surprise, they are crackheads. Bad part of town. I won't be doing the job.

I also believe that I do not have a place here. 
I'm not sure what the point of the forum is for, if not for advice, then for patting each other on the back by posting pictures and telling each other what good work we do?

No offense, of course, to the people that have posted pictures. I enjoy looking as well. I'm just not here for a pat on the back.

Recapping:
Attitudes from half of the comments on a website (I ASSumed) who's purpose for existence would include "advice". 

Clients who are probably drug dealers living in a bad neighborhood wanting hard work and a good finished product for next to nothing.

0 for 2

Indeed, this thread should probably be closed. It has nothing more constructive to offer. Anyone. 



To those that offered good advice in a non-arrogant manner, you are a jewel amongst rabble of today. I tip my hat to you and "Thank You". 

To the rest?

huh... well 

This is good bye.


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

bytor said:


> Hmmm... now where did I put that number for the IRS....????


Do you have to mess with the IRS if you do a job and you pay the customer?


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

masoneric said:


> http://www.irs.gov/
> 
> There ya go. I'm sure they can point you in the right direction.
> 
> ...


If all else fails just price jobs by the day. Like I need to charge xx amount per day, and there ya go, add all your materials and thats your estimate. Actually do: Day x materials + 30% = estimate, im sure you will be low for a while.

Register your business, call your ins company and get a liability policy. 

You cant look at a neighborhood and assume they are broke. Look them dead in the eye and ask for a payment up front and say you need final payment on the day of the pour. If they say, no problem, hey.. we will get back to you....there ya go.


----------



## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Personally I think you guys were a bit hard on this guy. How many of you had it ALL put together before you even did your first job? I know I didn't. Most of us grow right along with our business! There are plenty of critics along the way, and the few encouraging words we receive from our friends help when things get bumpy. 

I'm pretty sure that a guy like this wouldn't be competing for the jobs that many of you get for quite some time, if ever, and as such is no real threat to the "established" businesses already in his area.

He's a man trying to feed his family by all appearances and I respect that. It also should be pointed out that his price wasn't that far off, at least for around here. Heck his price probably would of been outrageously expensive in the area of OK stacker works in.


----------



## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

I think that unfortunately the OP did not post a location that could have a major effect on the process of getting job, surviving and learning what to do next time.

The questions were great, the criticism was OK, but a little too critical without knowing the whole picture and market situation. I am sure the guy would have finished project as well as possible even if he had to work harder and longer to get a "baptism" into the very loose contracting business on small jobs. At least he did not use the "illegal alien" cop-out and did recognized the client may have been drug dealer, which is something a "by the sf plus profit" and a learn little less.

He was very graceful in his exit from the forum.


----------



## Structure (May 29, 2011)

Your pricing is ludicrous to the point of being insulting to real contractors who know how to charge properly and don't have to go online to ask strangers how to bid.

I'm sure your local competition will appreciate a guy like you lowering the pricing standards for your whole area just because you don't have a clue.

This thread should be whacked. Nothing good will come from it.[/QUOTE]


I'm surprised you get any work at all, your attitude sucks. Wait till your clients find out.


----------



## Structure (May 29, 2011)

masoneric said:


> Hi Thom
> 
> 
> However, yesterday the home owner said that he was probably going to do a stamped concrete finish himself. I've personally never done a stamped concrete finish.


Hope the HO knows what he's getting himself into.


----------



## Datadawg (Sep 8, 2011)

lukachuki said:


> Personally I think you guys were a bit hard on this guy. How many of you had it ALL put together before you even did your first job?  I know I didn't. Most of us grow right along with our business! There are plenty of critics along the way, and the few encouraging words we receive from our friends help when things get bumpy.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that a guy like this wouldn't be competing for the jobs that many of you get for quite some time, if ever, and as such is no real threat to the "established" businesses already in his area.
> 
> He's a man trying to feed his family by all appearances and I respect that. It also should be pointed out that his price wasn't that far off, at least for around here. Heck his price probably would of been outrageously expensive in the area of OK stacker works in.


+1 all the way.
I was impressed he went thru the exercise of costing the job the way he did. Yup, he missed some things (fuel/depreciation on truck of just getting to/from site) -- but, that's how he'd learn... At the end of the job, he would have an aching back and lost money. Most people reprice the next round, and chalk the loss to education costs. But to attack the guy personally doesn't seem right. Maybe I have no pull whatsoever on this forum, being a noob myself, but treating OP w/respect should be a given for everyone.


----------



## Rock Headed (Nov 8, 2007)

This guys attitude:

"other contractors charge way too much and rip-ff the H.O. Also, I'm a christian man and want to charge a fair price. For cash."


New guys feel that way sometimes. When I got started I had it all figured out  I was going to charge a better price AND do better work.


After a couple years of breaking my ass working harder than anyone I knew, I was still broke. Masoneric, your position makes sense to you now at this time, but ultimately it is NOT sustainable. 

This reminds me.....I need to raise my rates again.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> After a couple years of breaking my ass working harder than anyone I knew, I was still broke. Masoneric, your position makes sense to you now at this time, but ultimately it is NOT sustainable.


Rock nailed it, and I bet everyone who started out from scratch with a small client base did the exact same thing and to a certain point I think its necessary in growing a business quickly.

- Foster more business at the start by charging less and doing a better job...seems feasible, I did the same thing. Also I fell victim to nice guy syndrome, anytime a client called with a little problem I drove over there fixed it in 5 min and didn't take any payment except a thank you.

Well pretty soon that catches up to you, in running your own business you have exponentially more expenses then when working for someone else. If you don't charge a professional rate, and for all of your services you end up making very little money and working your butt off.


----------



## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

wanna move to Canada and work for me for 3 days for 700? wow you cheap.

I thought I was cheap lol


----------



## treetopper (Sep 16, 2011)

Looks like this thread is about closed, so here's my 2 cents: I'm new to this forum, and spent the last several nights staying up late reading as many posts here as possible. This is the best thread I've seen yet- good pricing advice, and it tells much about the folks here and what to expect in the future. I am really glad to have found this site. I'm a small guy similar to Masoneric, so there are many mistakes yet to be made. That said, I'm meeting with homeowners this Sat morning to discuss a prospective patio/hardscape job- an area I know very little. I'll price it best I can, but would like to ask a favor in advance: someone please point me to a 'patio' thread (maybe pics of the process)-- what happens to me here is I get sidetracked so easy by all of the posts/threads that I lose focus on my project at hand. 
This place is great and I hope to contribute as much as you fellas. Thanks much.


----------



## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

treetopper said:


> This is the best thread I've seen yet-
> You need to keep reading then :laughing:
> I'll price it best I can,
> read this  Link  and you should come very close
> ...


Go to masonry forum and use the search feature


----------

