# Hardwood flooring, last few rows?



## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

keith mathewson said:


> I'm not a flooring installer so maybe gluing down the edge of a hardwood floor is fine but I have to wonder about seasonal movement. How much movement should one expect on a 20' wide room? I keep remembering the image of a buckled floor I saw online somewhere.


+1, the more I learn about hardwood flooring the more I feel like I know nothing.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

pinwheel said:


> The PL premium will give with expansion contraction. It remains rubbery even when dry.


Lol you think. Try and pry up or move a wall plate glued down with PL premium. It ain't going anywhere. I had to move some on a basement not long ago and the stuff wouldn't budge. Once that stuff sets up its about as solid as it gets. some of the others may have a little more movement.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Lol you think. Try and pry up or move a wall plate glued down with PL premium. It ain't going anywhere. I had to move some on a basement not long ago and the stuff wouldn't budge. Once that stuff sets up its about as solid as it gets. some of the others may have a little more movement.



You were trying to remove it, not move it 1/4". Put a hardwood floor jack against the bottom plate against a couple planks glued down. Garantee you can move it 1/4" sideways


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Funny this came up. On Monday I have to finish off a bunch of final rows of 3 1/4 hard maple.

First off always use a urthane glue. Never use an acrylic meant for engineered flooring. It will cause the planks to buckle.

My method I use is..

- get as close as I can with the flooring mailer then a 16 ga until I can get any closer.

-cut the aqua bar/ felt and spread bostick best hardwood flooring adhesive or another quality hardwood adhesive. Mapei 980 also works

Place the last 2 or 3 rows of hardwood into the glue 

Use a flooring Jack to tighten everything up and face nail the last row.

Done.

No voided warrantys like you can with a tube adhesive etc.

I was always told pl premium etc is not the proper stuff. It does not allow movment like a quality flooring adhesive does.

And face nailing the last 3 rows is ugly.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

pinwheel said:


> Polyurethane glue like PL premium & bosticks best will give with expansion contraction. It remains rubbery even when dry.


Yes bosticks best moves with expansion and contraction like it is designed to do.

Now pl premium drys hard as a rock and does not allow any movment. It was never designed for this purpose. 

A 20' wide install can easy expand 3/4" width wise .. (length wise maybe a 1/4")
i can't imagine pl premium giving that much without popping/ buckling or even contracting back in the winter. 

If pl allowed that much movement I'd never use it to laminate joists etc.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

pinwheel said:


> You were trying to remove it, not move it 1/4". Put a hardwood floor jack against the bottom plate against a couple planks glued down. Garantee you can move it 1/4" sideways


Trust me you ain't moving it even 1/8th. the reason I had to move the wall was because I set it 1/2" out of plumb by accident. It was only the next day after I laid them too. It had set up so hard it wouldn't budge at all. I put 3 Irwin clamps on the plate to try and push it out a little. Not a smidgen of movement. It goes off like rock once it sets. I ended up cutting the studs out and prying up the plate. I had to use a chisel to remove the PL that was left. it really does set up stupid hard.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Rich D. said:


> Yes bosticks best moves with expansion and contraction like it is designed to do.
> 
> Now pl premium drys hard as a rock and does not allow any movment. It was never designed for this purpose.
> 
> ...


Guess I'm gonna have to do some experimenting sometime. 

Truth be told, I typically just face nail & full trowel the whole floor, nail holes included, so I rarely glue the last few rows. 

As for the 3/4" expansion claim. Can it, yeah, possibly. If it expands that much, you've got more serious issues that need addressed. If a floor expands that far, when it dries back out, you're going to have some serious gaps. 3/4" in 20' is going to be some serious moisture.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

pinwheel said:


> As for the 3/4" expansion claim. Can it, yeah, possibly. If it expands that much, you've got more serious issues that need addressed. If a floor expands that far, when it dries back out, you're going to have some serious gaps. 3/4" in 20' is going to be some serious moisture.



Sure do..

They recommend a 3/4 gap width wise for a reason.

Worst case scenario. Just think about it. Nice hot humid day.. and the power goes out and a/c to keep a decent humidity level. Without the expansion space it needs, it will buckle. I rather live with a few gaps in the floor from it expanding then buckling because there wasn't enough room, or it was locked in


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

I use PL for all my decking and its much better than most. The few floors I've used it on I just put a couple dabs in the center of the board, never called me back so I don't think anything happened.

Learning something new all the time around here.


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## Burns-Built (May 8, 2009)

Just finished running quite a bit of hardwood, 2 1/4 and 3 1/4. When you can't get in with the flooring gun, go to the finish gun, then right angle drill and flooring cleats or 6 pennys. Can get nails in all but the second.to last row. I used great stuff s floor and wall adhesive for that row.


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

I understand the want to hide all nails and everything, and I also strive for that. But lets not kid ourselves on a couple things. 

1. Furniture covers a lot of the nail holes along walls for us
2. Unless you're using framing nails or huge screws a lot of nails aren't that visible
3. How often are you hanging out right against a wall? It's not likely a high traffic area and not something that's seen constantly so most people are pretty understanding about nails in the last couple rows. 

I get everything I can with the flooring nailer then the 15 gauge. Of course it all depends on what the customer wants, but I haven't had one yet that was unrealistic with the last 2 rows of flooring. 

I like that little chisel idea, and if it were a very small room it might be practical, but that would take 2 days to do on a decent size install.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jdub2083 said:


> I like that little chisel idea, and if it were a very small room it might be practical, but that would take 2 days to do on a decent size install.


Not once you got the hang of it. And I think it's really only for areas that will be seen or repairs.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> Lol you think. Try and pry up or move a wall plate glued down with PL premium. It ain't going anywhere. I had to move some on a basement not long ago and the stuff wouldn't budge. Once that stuff sets up its about as solid as it gets. some of the others may have a little more movement.


I've always just face nailed it... and never had an appearance issue.

But, as curiosity and in regard to glue products discussion, for floor decking/subfloor, I always use PL400 (not construction or premium).

As it is labelled for that use, I always assumed it was a rubbery/flexable dry, such that it gave a little against framing joists, instaed of breaking a bond, and consequently prevent floor sqeek.

Hence my question, what's the difference between PL400 and premium, and why as to its application.???

Anybody know?

Best...

(Hell, it may be on the label, just don't have a tube right now to look at it)


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm just guessing but it seems like the 400 subfloor adhesive is designed to remain soft and flexible to allow some movment with the framing. It is not a urethane so I'm guessing it's a water based acrylic?

Pl premium drys solid. Really no movment and is a urathane based adhesive.


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Not once you got the hang of it. And I think it's really only for areas that will be seen or repairs.


I guess so. Didn't really think about the repair aspect of it either.


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