# 1 3/4" LVL for rim joist on TJI system



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

No Do you know a guy called smartconstructs?


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I'm a bit confused by your first post. Are you a manager of an apartment complex, or a super working for a GC?


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

I'm the super for the GC.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I don't do a ton of framing with engineered lumber, but we use squash blocks keep tji's from bending/deflecting, not the rim board.


I've heard about this where the GC thinks the plumber is an idiot, the electrician thinks the GC is out to screw him, the Super thinks the world would stop turning without him, and the guys on the ground think the guys in the office do nothing but scratch their balls all day, but where I work, myself and the other trades workers have a fair amount of mutual respect for each other. Maybe it's the small town, I don't know.


I do know that coming on here and insulting someone's work ethic, based on the losers that you happen to associate with, is an undignified way to make an entrance. If you did that in the real world, I imagine you'd get shown the door fairly quickly.


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

BCConstruction said:


> hes a superintendent so prob ain't got the first clue how a house or building is constructed. but i would do same as you. sell the other material and buy the correct material.


If you read the first response I received after my original post you'd understand my frustration. Just like a typical day on the job! I was a framer for 6 years and did roofing,siding,gutters all through college. Been a "working" super for 8 years. Not like I need to explain my credentials...but I must automatically be fresh out of school and just hide in the job trailer right??


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

GC27 said:


> My question wasn't really should I, but CAN I. Will it structurally work..


Regardless of the economics (value as is to the lvl's and time ripping)
it would sure seem that a lvl would be at least comparable to TJ rim board (especially at 1 3/4).

However, technically that rim board has a vertical and lateral load.... I can not believe that your lvl would not surpass a TJ rim board, (especially a single level ranch) but technically it is an engineering question.

Yes, you want to cut it at your TJ width (assuming as I believe there would be no shringage in an lvl)... but again, with different eng lumbers, there can be some significant different characteristics/specs. Squash blocks will never hurt.

I think everyone is assuming you are on at least a 6X mud sill.... I think minimum bearing for a TJ is 1 1/2.... although I haven't used them in a while.

Yes... we do toss in our personal opinions in trying to answer a question, I think that's part of the value of contributing/receiving here.

Chill out, your not paying for anything..... if it was my home unpermitted I'd do it from a eng standpoint. From economics, I'd buy rim board. If there was liability, I'd get a stamp.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

GC27 said:


> My question wasn't really should I, but CAN I. Will it structurally work..


 I'm almost certain it will, LVLs have a modulas of elasticity of 2.0 I believe, Doug fir is 1.8. As someone else suggested, you might be better off substituting some 4x8 header with them, which is more expensive? You can ask your inspector ahead of time about substituting materials if you want an easy answer.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

GC27 said:


> If you read the first response I received after my original post you'd understand my frustration. Just like a typical day on the job! I was a framer for 6 years and did roofing,siding,gutters all through college. Been a "working" super for 8 years. Not like I need to explain my credentials...but I must automatically be fresh out of school and just hide in the job trailer right??


What was wrong with what I said? Clearly you took that the wrong way.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> What was wrong with what I said? Clearly you took that the wrong way.


 I am confused by about 3/4 of the posts in this thread. If you want to be a contractor you are going to struggle being this thin skinned, maybe everyone should pull up their skirts.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Fwiw, I've had 1.75 lvls spec'd for rim board by an engineer.


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

Haha! [email protected] went south fast. I got the info I needed. My wife no workey so I'm trying to save as much money as possible on this house build. I have a lot of hangers and anchors, tyvek tape, flexwrap, etc. Let me know if anyone needs anything and ill let you know if I have it.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> hes a superintendent so prob ain't got the first clue how a house or building is constructed. but i would do same as you. sell the other material and buy the correct material.





BCConstruction said:


> What was wrong with what I said? Clearly you took that the wrong way.


 Really? You need a map to the part of your first post that is abrasive?

Can we just treat this new guy with some respect please?


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

Using the LVL for rim may enable you to use small headers which would give you more room for insulation. Ignore BCC, he's in the sticks of Va, and has no manners.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> Really? You need a map to the part of your first post that is abrasive?
> 
> Can we just treat this new guy with some respect please?


Well hang on. He was the one who said he was a super not me. Never meet one and I have 2 who are best mates who run $100m+ projects who ain't got a clue how a house is constructed and I have never worked on a site with one who knew anything other than keeping subs in line. Basically a super in my view is not a skilled contractor which is why he's here asking skilled contractors.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Well hang on. He was the one who said he was a super not me. Never meet one and I have 2 who are best mates who run $100m+ projects who ain't got a clue how a house is constructed and I have never worked on a site with one who knew anything other than keeping subs in line. Basically a super in my view is not a skilled contractor which is why he's here asking skilled contractors.


Guys who run big jobs are not your typical construction guys. Usually have an Engineering degree.

Say 20m & under Supers are generally very experienced contractors. It's way more than just managing/coordinating subs.

BC your post, absent an explanation, was a tad abrasive.

To the OP, yes your idea will work.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Well hang on. He was the one who said he was a super not me. Never meet one and I have 2 who are best mates who run $100m+ projects who ain't got a clue how a house is constructed and I have never worked on a site with one who knew anything other than keeping subs in line. Basically a super in my view is not a skilled contractor which is why he's here asking skilled contractors.


 I'm sorry you carry such a blanketed opinion of Supers. My experience is mixed with plenty of highly skilled guys that worked their way through a broad range of skilled trade work. 

At best we can all keep our negative opinions to ourselves and lend a helping hand to the ones we are inspired to help.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Golden view said:


> Fwiw, I've had 1.75 lvls spec'd for rim board by an engineer.


Yep.... we all thought so.... but confirmation is good to know..... thank ya


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Just a question. If you were a framer for 6 years how could you not know that LVL is one of the strongest wood materials there is. Engineered rim board is often just 1 1/8" aspenite type junk. LVL has it beat in absolutely every way.


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## Sabagley (Dec 31, 2012)

If you are trying to save money, that is not the way to do it. 

1 3/4" LVL is about 7$ a foot, while 1 1/8 rim board is about 2$ a foot. Add in 500$ on the table you might burn up and the "free" material isn't a good deal. 

Sell the LVL, buy rim board. Save some time and pocket some money! 

Good luck.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I've heard about this where the GC thinks the plumber is an idiot, the electrician thinks the GC is out to screw him, the Super thinks the world would stop turning without him, and the guys on the ground think the guys in the office do nothing but scratch their balls all day, but where I work, myself and the other trades workers have a fair amount of mutual respect for each other. Maybe it's the small town, I don't know.


BC, I directed this comment at you, too. :laughing:

I don't think somone should instantaneously disrespect an individual based on their trade. A plumber thinking a Super doesn't know $h!t, is as unfair as a Super thinking he's the most important person on the jobsite, and plumbers are a dime a dozen.

We don't like it when HO's and "white collar" folks do it, so we shouldn't do it among ourselves, either. 



O.K., I'm getting off my soapbox now. :laughing:


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

jhark123 said:


> Ripped "slightly" taller must mean 1/32" or less, there is no way a rim should be 1/16" taller than the joist. In standard floors the rim is the same material as the joist.


You'll see more than 1/16" of variation in a stack of 2x10s.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

So... do all supers get to take home bunks of lumber?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

griz said:


> Well I know next to nothing about people movers or escalators.:laughing:
> 
> My feelings ain't hurt one iota....:thumbup:
> 
> ...


That's my experience of supers. Most of them I know went straight from university into their positions. The others just ended up in that position by who they know and not what they know. 

They couldn't tell you the difference between lvl'or lsl, they couldn't tell you the difference between a prv and a trv and they couldn't tell the difference between a transit level and a laser level. 

Disclaimer: BC has made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and reliability of the information provided on his comments. However, the information is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind. BC does not accept any responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, completeness, legality, or reliability of the information contained in his comments.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

TimelessQuality said:


> So... do all supers get to take home bunks of lumber?


It's been an option.

GC more interested in getting the job cleaned up & closed out than a refund on materials.

Marching orders were what you don't want ship to the dump.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

EricBrancard said:


> You'll see more than 1/16" of variation in a stack of 2x10s.


And isn't that why manufactured is nicer than dimensional????


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

When you own the lumber you can do whatever you want with it. I get it free or the lumberyard gets it free.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> That's my experience of supers. Most of them I know went straight from university into their positions. The others just ended up in that position by who they know and not what they know.
> 
> They couldn't tell you the difference between lvl'or lsl, they couldn't tell you the difference between a prv and a trv and they couldn't tell the difference between a transit level and a laser level.
> 
> *Disclaimer: BC has made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and reliability of the information provided on his comments. However, the information is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind. BC does not accept any responsibility or liability for the accuracy, content, completeness, legality, or reliability of the information contained in his comments*.


BC... You practicing to be a home inspector


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

The last project I did me and my two helpers got granite for our kitchens and baths. Just had to learn how to polish!


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> And isn't that why manufactured is nicer than dimensional????


It can be. Next time you get a large order of LVLs, take multiple measurements. There is variation. Same between plates and studs. It would be nice if it all went together like legos, but we know that's not the case.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

BCConstruction said:


> Well I don't know any GC's who plumb so yes that's correct in my eyes too.


Well, technically I'm a GC, though I prefer "Builder" because of the confusion it causes some people, and I install my own plumbing on residential and light commercial, and it passes inspection, functions properly, and pleases the client.

So you are just proving my point about bigotry.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

GC27 said:


> The research I've done shows LVL rims should be cross ply. At least that is manufacturer recommendation. It states they are ripped slightly taller to transfer that load to the LVL.
> 
> http://www.lpcorp.com/Resources/Lit...es/LP_SolidStart_Rim_Board_Tech_Guide_Canada/


I can't imagine a world where cross ply would make a bit of difference to a single story, non engineered, single family dwelling


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

Me and another guy dug, tied rebar, and poured the clubhouse footings the last two days to beat the cold. Can you believe a super can even run equipment??!!


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> It can be. Next time you get a large order of LVLs, take multiple measurements. There is variation. Same between plates and studs. It would be nice if it all went together like legos, but we know that's not the case.


There are variations in the ply's within the LVL


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Well, technically I'm a GC, though I prefer "Builder" because of the confusion it causes some people, and I install my own plumbing on residential and light commercial, and it passes inspection, functions properly, and pleases the client.
> 
> So you are just proving my point about bigotry.


So what.. Still don't change my experiences. Just like my experience of Apple products is awful. If you don't like my experience and comments about Apple products tough luck and tuff luck you don't like my experience of GC's and supers. Its really not my problem.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

GC27 said:


> Me and another guy dug, tied rebar, and poured the clubhouse footings the last two days to beat the cold. Can you believe a super can even run equipment??!!


You won't catch the supers I know doing that. They wear office shoes and suits on site.


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

This is the only company I've been a super for. Sounds like im doing it all wrong!


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> You won't catch the supers I know doing that. They wear office shoes and suits on site.


You have got to be kidding....

As a Super, I've manned a shovel, packed lumber, banged nails, hung drywall, pulled wire, finished concrete, made coffee, helped the guy on the honey wagon etc, etc & etc....

Being a Super ain't all it's cracked up to be.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

GC27 said:


> This is the only company I've been a super for. Sounds like im doing it all wrong!


Rather do it your way than theirs. 

If I was a super you couldn't stop me from getting in the thick of it. Even if I didn't have to.


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## GC27 (Dec 3, 2013)

Big jobs are tough to find time. A lot of office crap to take care of with the safety regs and everything else. Job #1 though is making the owner happy so we all keep getting work.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> You won't catch the supers I know doing that. They wear office shoes and suits on site.


 I think all people from Virginia are from a different planet. Do you need a passport to cross the border there? :laughing:


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