# Home Inspector Repairs



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I was on a service call this morning to correct a couple minor electrical issues noted on a home inspection report. (The customer was the seller, and the home is to close at the end of the month.)

While completing the work, I noticed a myriad of things the inspector missed. Nothing earth shattering, but wrong nonetheless.

I advised the HO what I found and he said, just fix what's on the list.

I installed a bonding bushing even though it was not noted, and the HO didn't authorize it-but I didn't charge him for it. I just couldn't let it go.

On my ticket, which I made him sign I wrote "further electrical issues noted and need attention" to cover my arse.

He was none too happy about it, but he signed and wrote me a check.

I know I did the right thing, but how do you guys handle things like this?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I have a form I use when I find something seriously wrong, and the owner refuses to allow me to fix it.

Check your PMs. You can modify it to suit your needs.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I have a form I use when I find something seriously wrong, and the owner refuses to allow me to fix it.
> 
> Check your PMs. You can modify it to suit your needs.


Thanks-got it 480! It's perfect!

:notworthy:notworthy


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Here, if you tell them about a problem
they are legally bound to fix or disclose.
Therefore, they don't want to know.
I know lots of realtors who have their
own "guy" for that reason-----
Don't tell/Don't know. :whistling


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

neolitic said:


> Here, if you tell them about a problem
> they are legally bound to fix or disclose.
> Therefore, they don't want to know.
> I know lots of realtors who have their
> ...


That's probably the same here. I fixed the only real dangerous thing for my own "sleeping at night purposes":laughing:

I'm guessing that many HO's really don't care about disclosure laws.

I've run into lots of situations like this lately, where the seller is allowed to make the repairs.

I would think that the buyers would want their own guy to do this. I know I would.

Edit-I wonder if my notation will come up at the closing table. What do you think?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

rselectric1 said:


> That's probably the same here. I fixed the only real dangerous thing for my own "sleeping at night purposes":laughing:
> 
> I'm guessing that many HO's really don't care about disclosure laws.
> 
> ...




Fat chance. :laughing:

I have been told by realtors
that I would get more work from them
if I would just "Do the list and keep 
your mouth shut...." :whistling


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

neolitic said:


> [/color]
> 
> 
> Fat chance. :laughing:
> ...


:laughing::laughing:
I just can't help it!

You and I may be too conscientious for our own good!

I'm willing to forgo a little work here and there to keep my reputation intact. (Sounds like you and I are on the same page!)

Good on you Neo!


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

That's kind of funny. 

Shouldn't the BUYER be the one to get the inspection? And if so, wouldn't their "guy" fix everything that needed fixing? :blink:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

angus242 said:


> That's kind of funny.
> 
> Shouldn't the BUYER be the one to get the inspection? And if so, wouldn't their "guy" fix everything that needed fixing? :blink:


It was the buyers guy who inspected, but I guess they let the seller hire the contractors. Doesn't make much sense to me either.

I run into this all the time. For all the buyer knows, I could be his relative or something.

My license number is on my invoices though. That's why I handle it the way I do.

480 Sparky sent me a GREAT form to handle this exact situation though. Now I have a new procedure for this situation!


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I had customers kind of like that on a water damage job. They didn't want me to tear out a wall which may have had water damage inside. I told them I would let it go if you want to save money. But I would have to write in the contract, not liable for this and this, recommend doing this and this, rejected by owner. And that they would have to sign it, they were fine with that.


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## Dave R (Jan 20, 2008)

The buyer hires the inspector ,so the inspector works for the buyer. 
The buyer gets the inspection report and tells the seller what he wants fixed.
Since the seller still ownes the home, he hires the contractor to fix just what the buyer requested to be fixed. 
If the buyer wanted, he could just ask the seller to reduce the home price by an estimated repair cost and then hire his own contractor after closing.
As the contractor hired by the seller to fix a list of issues that were provided to the seller by the buyer, you are better off just wearing blinders and fixing only what's on the list. Document what you were hired to fix and how you fixed it. That's all you are liable for. You are not being hired to do an inspection. If something was missed, the inspector is liable, not you. That's why he has to be licensed, bonded and insured.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

You handled the situation quite well. Brought it to the owners attention, documented the problem(s), finished the items on the original service call, didn't make a big deal out of it & gave them a freebie to boot. Not much more you could have done.:thumbsup::thumbup::notworthy


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## Paelectrician (Nov 27, 2009)

I ran into this same thing the other day while doing someone's service and noted on invoice that i made them aware of other electrical issues noticed. Should i have done something more, or is that enough to cover me?


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Paelectrician said:


> I ran into this same thing the other day while doing someone's service and noted on invoice that i made them aware of other electrical issues noticed. Should i have done something more, or is that enough to cover me?


I had him sign the invoice with my notation. My invoices are carbonless forms so I have a copy and so does he.

480 sparky has a great form that he sent to me that covers this situation. I am guessing that you cant MAKE them sign it, so I altered it a little to include a section that you can document a refusal to sign.

It's 480's form, but maybe he will send it to you too.

(you'll need to ask nicely and offer to pay off the 2 dollars I owe him plus the interest :clap


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

PM sent to PA.:thumbsup:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> PM sent to PA.:thumbsup:


Does this mean I still owe you the $2 plus interest?:jester:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> Does this mean I still owe you the $2 plus interest?:jester:


Not if PA pays me instead.


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## BIGRED (Dec 19, 2005)

480sparky said:


> I have a form I use when I find something seriously wrong, and the owner refuses to allow me to fix it.
> 
> Check your PMs. You can modify it to suit your needs.


480 can you pm that form? You are on every site out there!


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## JCMBuilt (Apr 6, 2010)

I perform many home inspections.
*You did the right thing by fixing the worst of it.* 
I would recommend that all you guys practice a little CYA with these situations. The home inspector will *NOT* be at fault for missing problems in the panel, that the licensed contractor failed to repair. Home Inspections are visual and limited in scope.
The standards within the inspection industry are to point out the items that the inspectors noticied(visual) and recommend the appropiate professional to evaluate and repair. The industry standard phrase "Recommend the electrical panel be evaluated and repaired by a licensed electrician". 
Either way, the buyer is an idiot for allowing the seller to make the repairs. 
Inform the client in writing of the problem that exsist. If something goes wrong, the seller you notified in writing, should take the heat for failure to disclose the remaining problems to the buyer.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

JCMBuilt said:


> I perform many home inspections.
> *You did the right thing by fixing the worst of it.*
> I would recommend that all you guys practice a little CYA with these situations. The home inspector will *NOT* be at fault for missing problems in the panel, that the licensed contractor failed to repair. Home Inspections are visual and limited in scope.
> The standards within the inspection industry are to point out the items that the inspectors noticied(visual) and recommend the appropiate professional to evaluate and repair. The industry standard phrase "Recommend the electrical panel be evaluated and repaired by a licensed electrician".
> ...


The home inspector wasn't really the issue here. He was quite thorough and found all kinds of things.

The real issue I meant to address when starting this thread was the false belief that the home had a "clean bill of health" from my company after repairing *only the noted issues*.

The home inspector did a great job in *this* case-unlike many of them. Once we open the panel and boxes etc. we almost always find other issues because it is NOT visible to a home inspector.

I feel that the buyer is sometimes under the mistaken impression that the home is TOTALLY up to code and safe since only the "visible" things have been repaired. Once we electricians start digging into the house we ALWAYS find more problems.


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## JCMBuilt (Apr 6, 2010)

No doubt about finding issues. I read the electrical posts just to learn. 

My concern was a response in one of the posts. I felt the advice could land a licensed contractor into hot water. The post did recommended informing the person who hired you of other problems. However, the post that stated:

"If something was missed, the inspector is liable, not you. That's why he has to be licensed, bonded and insured."

I can't disagree with this more. If your there because of the home inspector, he did his part. All liability would shift to the contractor. 

My point is to protect yourself. Be able to prove you recommended additional repairs and they were not authorized.


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## Dave R (Jan 20, 2008)

> "If something was missed, the inspector is liable, not you. That's why he has to be licensed, bonded and insured."
> 
> I can't disagree with this more. If your there because of the home inspector, he did his part. All liability would shift to the contractor.



If the inspector did his part, he would not have missed anything.Hence, he is liable if he did miss something.

You are not there because of the inspector. You are there because the *owner* of the house hired you to fix specific problems that the potential buyer asked him to have fixed. The buyer doesn't always ask for everything in the inspection report to be fixed. Sometimes the buyer doesn't ask for anything to be fixed. Sometimes the owner refuses to have anything fixed.

I do agree that if you see a *safety* issue while you are there, that you should bring it to the owners attention,but you are not being hired nor are you responsible to point out just anything else that you find wrong with the house. For instance, if the owner hires you to repair a rotten window sill and you notice the window sash won't stay up, you are not responsible or liable for documenting that the window sash won't stay up.
That is what I ment when I said that sometimes you have to wear blinders.
My origional reply wasn't a complete disagreement with the origional post but more informational on the process of home inspections during a sale of a house.


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## DPCII (Mar 14, 2010)

Dave R said:


> If the inspector did his part, he would not have missed anything.Hence, he is liable if he did miss something.
> 
> You are not there because of the inspector. You are there because the *owner* of the house hired you to fix specific problems that the potential buyer asked him to have fixed. The buyer doesn't always ask for everything in the inspection report to be fixed. Sometimes the buyer doesn't ask for anything to be fixed. Sometimes the owner refuses to have anything fixed.
> 
> ...


Only if what he missed was inside his scope and contractual arrangement. If his agreement does not call for him to remove the panel and inspect, then he is not liable for anything he missed inside the panel.

As to the original post, you do have to put yourself in the sellers mind. He gets a report that lists A,B,C to be fixed. He contracts with you to fix A,B, and C. You then come back and say I found D through X that need addressing. In the sellers mind he thinks (right or wrong) that your are just turning the cash register on. Remember, all he wants to do, is fulfill his contractual obligation with the buyer to fix A, B, and C. If the buyer is worried about D through X, then they should have paid for a more thorough inspection of the electrical.

Is it a fine line you walk, both legally and with your personal ethics. If you can go to sleep at night and feel good about what you did, then you probably did the right thing.

I am not familiar with your invoice or contract, but if you were contracted to fix A, B, and C, and you try to bring up D through X, a customer is not obligated to sign or even acknowledge what you found because you (may) have gone outside your contractual obligation.


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## JCMBuilt (Apr 6, 2010)

Take my advice or not. The home inspectors liability towards the panel ended when he advised the his client to call in a licensed electrical contractor. 
As the expert, if you know there is a safety issue, better be able to prove you passed that info on to the seller. Who, by the way is the current home owner. If there was no sale involved, wouldn't you feel safer if you informed the home owner in writing of safety issues at a component you worked on? The seller is required to disclose the situation to potential buyers in their disclosure statements.

I am *not* suggesting that you force the seller to fix the issues or perform the repairs for free. I am *not* suggesting that you re-inspect and point out every safety issue within the house. *I am* suggesting that as the licensed contractor performing repairs in a specific component/system, you would be wise to have some *documentation* that you advised the client that the situation was unsafe. Just as the licensed contractor did in this situation.

If the house burns down, or the someone gets hurt related to that panel. The buyer(and their Insurance company) may go after the home inspector. Home inspector is off the hook, regardless of what he missed. He wanted an Electrician! The seller, who obviously will not disclose the new safety issues, will point the finger to the licensed contractor. The licensed contractor, who conducted repairs to the item/component that failed. At that point, wouldn't you want some written documentation that you advised the seller of the safety issues? How will you liability insurance carrier feel?
For my part, my license was hard won. When something goes wrong, people look for a person to blame. Here in Florida, contractors are prime targets.


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