# Why not 15A and 14/2 for the lighting-only circuits?



## UpNorth (May 17, 2007)

Lighting circuits with cans, sconces, ceiling fixtures, total fixtures like, say, seven, 15A more than plenty if you stick a 150W incandescent in all, and the cans won't even handle that. So why not 15A with 14/2?

Wire costs $, ya know. And 14 is easier to make up terminations, right?

Make me the case for 20A and 12/2. Inquiring minds want to know.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

HI Gene, 14/2 @ 15 AMP breaker is the standard here.

Andy.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Same here.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

SOP for me as well.


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## SAW.co (Jan 2, 2011)

I would have asked the same question 14/2 @ 15 amp seems to be the standard, But you never know when the standard has changed.
THANKS!:thumbsup:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

NM has a code addition that requires #12 minimum on circiuts serving receptacles. We can use #14 on lighting circuits provided we don't overload it. There are to few spaces in panels to waste. I'd rather have more fixtures on a 20A circuit and reduce the number of circuits. Additionally, the cost of a 20A AFCI is no more than a 15A but will handle more fixtures.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

thom said:


> NM as a code addition that requires #12 minimum on circiuts serving receptacles..........



Must be a local Code, because it's not in the NEC.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

> Lighting circuits with cans, sconces, ceiling fixtures, total fixtures like, say, seven, 15A more than plenty if you stick a 150W incandescent in all, and the cans won't even handle that. So why not 15A with 14/2?
> 
> Wire costs $, ya know. And 14 is easier to make up terminations, right?
> 
> Make me the case for 20A and 12/2. Inquiring minds want to know.



I read that different than you 3 did I guess. Sounds to me like he's wanting justification to use 12/2 for lighting rather than 14/2....or not justification maybe, but wondering why some guys do. I can't speak for anyone but me but here goes (IF that was the question).

It depends on the mood I'm in at the time I'm doing it, but sometimes I use 12/2 for lighting. There are a couple reasons why a person might do this.


1. It's all you had on the truck (I.E.-ran out of 14/2 at some point during the day) and it's cheaper to run that at 14/2 cost than to make a supply run in the middle of a job.

2. You never know when some dumb homeowner is going to find "any ol' wire" and run it to an outlet. (This is not an overwhelming reason because we can't plan for every dumb thing that a homeowner might do someday)


EDIT: Damn I type slow LOL ....3 more replies in the time I typed this out.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

UpNorth said:


> Lighting circuits with cans, sconces, ceiling fixtures, total fixtures like, say, seven, 15A more than plenty if you stick a 150W incandescent in all, and the cans won't even handle that. So why not 15A with 14/2?
> 
> Wire costs $, ya know. And 14 is easier to make up terminations, right?
> 
> Make me the case for 20A and 12/2. Inquiring minds want to know.


rex cauldwell uses 12/2 on lighting, but he seems like mr. overkill sometimes.
only reason i can think of is voltage drop, if the run is long enough. 
seems these days that the loads are getting lower, if anything, so 12/2 seems like more and more overkill as we transition to cfl and led lighting.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

With 12/2, you can put more loads on a circuit. So you end up with fewer circuits overall.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I prefer to use 14-2 for all lighting circuits and one of the arguments i like to use is the size wire that most light fixtures use or have been put together with, seems to me that most fixtures only have 16-14ga wire at best. So using a 15 amp breaker is more likely to trip before there is a melt down of the wire due to some kind of overload. Granted you could use 12-2 with a 15 amp breaker but who wants to wrestle with 12ga wire when wiring in some of these lights/brackets.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

480sparky said:


> Must be a local Code, because it's not in the NEC.


I initially thought that. Then I saw he is from New Mexico (NM). :whistling


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

UpNorth said:


> Lighting circuits with cans, sconces, ceiling fixtures, total fixtures like, say, seven, 15A more than plenty if you stick a 150W incandescent in all, and the cans won't even handle that. So why not 15A with 14/2?
> 
> Wire costs $, ya know. And 14 is easier to make up terminations, right?
> 
> Make me the case for 20A and 12/2. Inquiring minds want to know.


I am not sure what you are fishing for here. Most typical guys I know use #14 for most residential lighting. The only ones that don't are the ones that are in the "ALL #12" crowd for general circuits. These guys tend to also be in the "bigger is better" camp, regardless of the ramifications.


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## JBrzoz00 (Jan 11, 2011)

Where I work we use 12-2 for everything but switchlegs are 14-2. Unless builder or HO wants all 12 wire.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

JBrzoz00 said:


> Where I work we use 12-2 for everything but switchlegs are 14-2........



On 15 or 20a breakers?


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## UpNorth (May 17, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> I am not sure what you are fishing for here. Most typical guys I know use #14 for most residential lighting. The only ones that don't are the ones that are in the "ALL #12" crowd for general circuits. These guys tend to also be in the "bigger is better" camp, regardless of the ramifications.


Fishing for good information, is all. So I'll know, for example, when a guy says he uses 12/2 everywhere but his switchlegs are always 14/2, that he might be a little soft on specs, elsewhere as well. :sad:

And the "bigger is better" camp is all around me, guys who have been doing "great camps" for the rich and famous, all on cost-plus terms. And at the cost premium for 12 gage over 14 gage, it's helpful to a sparky's bottom line.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

I have a couple of areas where the minimum is #12.

Some old timers still try to put #14 switch legs in these towns but it gets red tagged every time (as it should).


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## JBrzoz00 (Jan 11, 2011)

20 amp breakers, I know it sounds crazy, When I started working in the south I called the building dept and the guy explained it and told me what section in the code it was under. I'm trying to find it right now.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

Unless you're putting @ (closest symbol to outlet, lol) on the light circuit, I don't see a need for 12/2 (normal residential lights). Unless you're putting a whole house on one light circuit. :jester:

Through my crash course, I used 15 amps for every light circuit. Even Normal outlet circuits, 14/2 (office, hall). More power the better but you're not going to be using everything at the same time. 

Just enough knowledge to be dangerous! :whistling


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

JBrzoz00 said:


> 20 amp breakers, I know it sounds crazy, When I started working in the south I called the building dept and the guy explained it and told me what section in the code it was under. I'm trying to find it right now.


Methinks you'll be looking a long time.


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