# 15# felt or 30?



## bestmetalroof

Felt Sucks. I rarely use either 15# or 30#. If you are competing on price alone then you need to find a niche. I prefer Titanium UDL to felt any day. It is super safe to walk on and far superior in performance to felt. Sure, it is more expensive but if you can't sell better performance to your customer you probably need to hire a salesman. Titanium UDL is made by InterWrap.
-Best

If you do it right, you only have to do it once!


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## RooferJim

#30 felt we use on Cedar roofs but lately have ben doing full coverage I&W shield on a lot of jobs. for shingle jobs we use Shinglemate or Roofer Select.
The pupose of felt gentlemen is "of course" a secondary layer of protection against the effects of wind driven rain. We get that a lot in my area.

RooferJim

J Bennette Roofing dot com

Massachusetts


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## AaronB.

I think that if it is protection against wind driven rain, then you would need to not penetrate it.


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## A Good Roofer

Do any manufactures recommending 30lb. as underlayment for shingles other than wood shakes?


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## RooferJim

Have you ever dried in a roof with buttons,roofing nails or even staples ??
do they penetrate it ?? yes they do, yet it does make a watertight subroof .
we have felted in roofs with #30 and left them for over a month of rain with no leaks. yes our roofers are well trained and they dont make open holes in the felt. but nails and buttons dont leak. I always said it takes longer to train a kid how to paper in right than it does to shingle. #30 is a great subroof and when your installing a roof that takes time "like tile or slate" even cedar, its the way to go,that way the other trades can still work with a dry roof overhead. It all comes down to attention to detail and learning the trade the right way.
make it tight roof it right

RooferJim

Massachusetts


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## AaronB.

All I am saying is that once you install the shingles, and water starts streaming in, it will back up and build hydrostatic pressure (cuz it is trapped byt the shingle roof) without being able to shed freely.

This is not the same scenario as a felted roof. The felted roof alone does not force the water in due to shingles trapping it in. I repair lots of roofs around here that have felt and no leaks, but also with felt and leaks. I choose not to rely on felt as a waterproofer after the shingles are on.


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## Grumpy

A Good Roofer said:


> Do any manufactures recommending 30lb. as underlayment for shingles other than wood shakes?


Manufacturers only recommend minimums.


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## Tscarborough

I don't know dick about roofing, but show me the advantage to 15# felt? For stucco work, I pefer 15# because it is easier to work with, but in that application it only used to prevent the underlayment from sucking out the moisture in the stucco.


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## snapper21

This one's like beating a dead horse. There's pro's and cons and they are all basically opinionated. I have no problem with heavying up to 30# but have noticed wrinkling more with it. 15# can be a safety issue and tears easily if stapled, but if buttons are used on the overlaps and hand nails are spaced properly in between the safety issue is "for the most part" relieved. Experienced roofers know how to walk on felt, or not to walk on felt on hot days when the safety concerns are high. I always lay the felt fully on the roof prior to shingling so that I can see that there are no wrinkles in it as it's being layed. Felt is a moisture barrier, if the roof leaks it will find a place to get in, it does a swirling effect around a nail and does get through the felt and plywood, after time the drip gets more constant. Carlisle had a film which showed water doing what I didn't think it could do.


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## RSims

*15 verses 30 or dbl 15 felt*

I have been using double layers of 15 lb felt for years.
I was taught 30 lb was the standard. 15 + 15 = 30 
I start the first run with a half roll 18" then a full roll . Then every run I drop to the half way line so each new row has a half lap.
I work in high wind areas so I staple with a wacker tacker a string line on the bottom edge of each run and the gable ends. I have seen other builders in the same subdivision loose 30 to 50% of the paper on a bad wind day only using a few staples and button caps. That is to my zero loss system. 
I have used the edge tape as well and the only real difference is cost.
If I only roofed and was not doing other trades after the roof was dried in I may skip the string but not the dbl 15 layers.
I am doing a number of trades and do the roof as conditions allow.
The last house it was really hot during the middle of the day so I started roofing early then switched to painting the exterior till it cooled off in the late afternoon. I ended the day roofing.
I even started roofing on the west side in the morning and the east in the afternoon giving me more roof time. I used the same system painting to keep out of the sun. Just my 2 Cs


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## dougger222

Since I last posted on this subject about 4 years ago I still only use 15 pound but have switched about 3 years ago to only Roofer Select felt. It's required for the Certainteed Integrity roof system.

We've torn off a few 10-15 year old roofs with Shinglemate (according to the tag on the felt) and it was a million little pieces all over the yard. On some roofs the biggest piece is no bigger than a plate. More than likely they make it better now but won't go near it. As far as tearing off like tearing off really old roofs with 30 pound because it helps the shingles come up easier.

It's a big price jump from regular 15 pound to Roofer Select but I feel it's worth the money because it never blows off and it never wrinkles, plus its nice to walk on. Oh and after a while you stop itchin. Twice I've had roofs with just Roofer Select not lose one piece of felt while the roof next door lost shingles. The one time the builder came to the site on Monday after a very windy (60mph) weekend and looked up and said he was figuring to see half the paper gone. To his amazement not one piece blew off. Since then it's only been the Roofer Select.

30 pound is great for cedar shake jobs triple lapped, keeps the water out really good!


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## JTW

We will not use anything other than synthetic U/L anymore. You choose the brand of preference, but in the end we feel it is a higher quality product, provides a nearly watertight, lays faster, lighter and hell, a 10 sq. roll that you can easily manage! It cost a little more upfront but the labor savings and increased quality create a net nuetral in costing(IMO). We have been using the Rex synfelt alot and like it, better than we do the Grace Triflex. They are all essentially the same money.


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## BamBamm5144

Douggar - Roofers Select still may be my favorite felt but I use shinglemate a lot now because of warranty reasons. The Shinglemate now feels nearly identical to the roofers select except it has a little less fiberglass in it. Roofers Select is the only certainteed product I actually like.

And JTW - In my area, using a synthetic felt is unnecessary with an asphalt roof. When you have to raise the prices a few hundred dollars just for an underlayment, most people these days become uninterested very quickly. However, I do like working with them when I have the opportunity to.


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## Splinter hands

30# or synthetic. I never use 15# its like putting toilet paper on the roof.:laughing:


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## rooferguy

i never use felt ice and water on all eaves and vallys then cool grey for the rest. as far as ppl leaving a roof over night with felt somthing i would never do we always always tarp are roofs paper gets way to many bubbles in it then it shows thru the shingles later down road you have paper bumps in your roof


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## Stephen H

switched over to titanium UDL 4 or 5 years ago and have never looked back.
Last time i priced it it was essentially the same price here as 30 # but we would still use it if it was 2-3 times the cost- it is THAT much safer to work with.

Stephen


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## Rusty Nails

Around here the common folk get 30# felt and the people with dough get the sticky back membrane.

We like the Palisades as you get 6 months to cover it and it is great to walk on. Of course the performance is outstanding and should be for the price.


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## jmiller

rooferguy said:


> as far as ppl leaving a roof over night with felt somthing i would never do we always always tarp are roofs paper gets way to many bubbles in it then it shows thru the shingles later down road you have paper bumps in your roof


Your argument is as bad as your grammar. Our new construction roofs lay flat, and the (30lb) felt is exposed for months sometimes.


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## TNTRenovate

jmiller said:


> Your argument is as bad as your grammar. Our new construction roofs lay flat, and the (30lb) felt is exposed for months sometimes.


their yew go agin wit peeplez grammer next u r gonna wanna uz 2 spell more better & uze punchewashun

All kidding aside, I agree with your comment. I was always told one of the reason you felt a roof was to protect the home while you roofed the house.


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## Jaws

Wouldn't consider not using 30 lbs felt . The GOOD 30 lbs felt, with ROOFING NAILS!!!!!! Same thing with framers and Tyvek, if the staples rust there will be holes. Roof nails. Doesn't take to long.


No one uses Grace?? For roofing contractors I can understand the price difference would eat into profits. 30 has always worked well. Any opinions on whether grace is worth the money if its not on a shallow pitch?


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## rooferguy

jmiller said:


> Your argument is as bad as your grammar. Our new construction roofs lay flat, and the (30lb) felt is exposed for months sometimes.


wow good for you


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## rooferguy

TNTSERVICES said:


> their yew go agin wit peeplez grammer next u r gonna wanna uz 2 spell more better & uze punchewashun
> 
> All kidding aside, I agree with your comment. I was always told one of the reason you felt a roof was to protect the home while you roofed the house.


yawn its 5 am when i do this waking up and in the dark hard to see


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## Randy Bush

I once had 30 # felt on one of my buildings for a number of years before I got steel put on it. Had it held down with lath. Not something I would recommend , but it held up keep things dry until I could afford to do it right .


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## johnk

bestmetalroof said:


> Felt Sucks. I rarely use either 15# or 30#. If you are competing on price alone then you need to find a niche. I prefer Titanium UDL to felt any day. It is super safe to walk on and far superior in performance to felt. Sure, it is more expensive but if you can't sell better performance to your customer you probably need to hire a salesman. Titanium UDL is made by InterWrap.
> -Best
> 
> If you do it right, you only have to do it once!


Ditto the Titanium,I hardly use felt anymore.Its so nice to work with,a 10sq roll is so light and they claim it will last up to 6 mos installed to their spec with button caps.Perfect for drying in new construction.JMO I like:thumbsup:


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## johnk

RSims said:


> I have been using double layers of 15 lb felt for years.
> I was taught 30 lb was the standard. 15 + 15 = 30
> I start the first run with a half roll 18" then a full roll . Then every run I drop to the half way line so each new row has a half lap.
> I work in high wind areas so I staple with a wacker tacker a string line on the bottom edge of each run and the gable ends. I have seen other builders in the same subdivision loose 30 to 50% of the paper on a bad wind day only using a few staples and button caps. That is to my zero loss system.
> I have used the edge tape as well and the only real difference is cost.
> If I only roofed and was not doing other trades after the roof was dried in I may skip the string but not the dbl 15 layers.
> I am doing a number of trades and do the roof as conditions allow.
> The last house it was really hot during the middle of the day so I started roofing early then switched to painting the exterior till it cooled off in the late afternoon. I ended the day roofing.
> I even started roofing on the west side in the morning and the east in the afternoon giving me more roof time. I used the same system painting to keep out of the sun. Just my 2 Cs


A waste of time:sad:IMO


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