# Is taping necessary?



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I use Fibafuse over most of my patches. I agree that a ceiling patch in between joists doesn't NEED tape. There's no chance of movement any more than if you were using hot mud to fill a dent or small hole. If it's on a wall, I tape because someone might lean on it/hang a picture/etc. which could crack the seam.


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

Here a Cali or Hot Patch is called a Blowout Patch. 

I always insert and screw a wood backer first and then set patch with Durabond ensuring mud pushes into voids to create keys.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

If you think the tape makes too big of a bulge on a drywall patch you suck at finishing drywall. Its not even worth discussing to this degree. Its a booby trap. Why can't people just do whats typically done instead of going completely off the map with a "better" idea?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Quad Racer said:


> If you think the tape makes too big of a bulge on a drywall patch you suck at finishing drywall.


So what's yer point? :laughing:

Mudding skills aside, it takes longer to use tape. If it's not actually needed, you're wasting time/money.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Quad Racer said:


> If you think the tape makes too big of a bulge on a drywall patch you suck at finishing drywall. Its not even worth discussing to this degree. Its a booby trap. Why can't people just do whats typically done instead of going completely off the map with a "better" idea?


That's all assumptions. 

Taping can be too thick in some situations. If you have to develop a reliable technique that doesn't use tape at all for these situations, why not use it for the rest?


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Quad Racer said:


> If you think the tape makes too big of a bulge on a drywall patch you suck at finishing drywall. Its not even worth discussing to this degree. Its a booby trap. Why can't people just do whats typically done instead of going completely off the map with a "better" idea?


I don't think I suck at taping and doing what's always been done, for it's own sake, would result in you automatically getting bled and purged every time you went to the doctor.:whistling

I've been patching ceilings like this for at least 15 years and I'm sure others have been doing it a lot longer so it's "typical" at this point. You're just not familiar with it. Ceilings are already tough to patch well in many lighting situations so avoiding buildup whenever possible is good practice.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

EthanB said:


> I don't think I suck at taping and doing what's always been done, for it's own sake, would result in you automatically getting bled and purged every time you went to the doctor.:whistling.


What a great analogy!!
I had to do more than just thank you.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

And we would all be riding horses.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

And nailing drywall ,hand nailing lumber, painting with a brush, not using plywood.........

A 4" patch with out tape has zero projection and only affects 4" of the wall, with fibafuse very slight projection affects 6-8" of the wall to not show, paper tape bigger projection affects 12" or more of the wall to not show. 

We have all patched holes on walls or ceilings near a window where the hump is noticeable in daylight, using no tape eliminates the hump or fibafuse makes it less noticeable.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

Tinstaafl said:


> So what's yer point? :laughing:
> 
> Mudding skills aside, it takes longer to use tape. If it's not actually needed, you're wasting time/money.


How much time does it take to spread 2 lengths of mesh tape 5" long. Lets say 10 seconds max. So if you have 20 to do it takes 200 seconds. A couple minutes ....Big deal. Its funny this is such a discussion either way each wants to do it. You say why tape I say why not over a couple minutes. Either way its not a big enough deal to discuss this deeply. Comparing this and that over the simplest of tasks. I don't know how Ive succeeded and grown without this site. Lol


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

I thought there was a different site for elementary subjects


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Quad Racer said:


> So if you have 20 to do it takes 200 seconds. A couple minutes ....Big deal.


You're not accounting for how much my mudding skills suck. :laughing:

But seriously, there's no reason to settle for any way but the quickest and easiest (with good quality, of course). You must not be as lazy as me. :whistling


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

I have a simple jig.

A piece of plywood with a four inch hole saw cut, I cut sheetrock in six by six squares, then I score the back with the hole saw pilot bit removed.

I'm only cutting the paper and not touching the face of the sheetrock.

Remove the excess sheet rock around the paper leaving just the center circle.


I apply mud around the circle on the back of the sheetrock and slowly press in place with my flat trowel ..... Now I only have to do two more skim coats to hide the paper..... The sheetrock paper is slightly thinner than my joint tape.


I learned this from doing blown in insulation on a house that has brick.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

Shoot I like cutting things and streamlining when I can but this isn't one for me. I spent a lot of my time as a commercial finisher so its not somewhere I feel I should cut corners. I know there are things I do in other areas that would bug someone else.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

you eat your pudding your way, and I'll eat mine my way. to each his own...


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Quad Racer said:


> I thought there was a different site for elementary subjects


I don't think patching is elementary. There are way too many ways to do it, along with some of the critical areas - especially adjacent to trim. I'll tape in most wall areas, but not if I can't feather it out properly. I've seen a lot of patches that show light under the knife blade when it's "done". That isn't really good enough, IMO.

Bucket mud, hot mud - there's always the plaster and bucket mud approach. Additives /no additives.

How do you keep the patch in place? 

Cali patch.

Screw backers in through the wall and screw the patch piece to it

Mud the backer to the patch. 

Put one screw in the backer, slide it in the hole, hold the backer by the screw and put the plug in, drive a second screw in the gap between the plug and the wall, drive the first screw home. 

Put globs on adhesive on the backer and loop some fishing line around it, slide it in place, glue the patch in, then tighten the line around a piece of wood on the front to keep it flush to the surface while the glue dries.

I could go on...

There are a ton of ways of doing this. Having a method suitable for smaller wall holes that doesn't use tape can both save time and improve the cosmetic results.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

For what it's worth, my method is sometimes like this:
1)Save the plugs, trim/clean the paper edges with a sharp blade
2) trim/clean edges of holes
3) screw in a piece of backer behind each hole (1/2" ply), 
4) screw plug to backer (add a spacer between backer & wall, if necessary)
5) 5 minute mud first coat, let it harden, then take off any high spots with 6" knife
6) finish coat of mud


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> For what it's worth, my method is sometimes like this:
> 1)Save the plugs, trim/clean the paper edges with a sharp blade
> 2) trim/clean edges of holes
> 3) screw in a piece of backer behind each hole (1/2" ply),
> ...


I agree somewhat with Quad Racer that at some size hole, the patch will be a little too weak. I make mine a little stronger by brushing the hole and plug edges with shellac (I'll be trying Guardz as a replacement) to consolidate the edges a little, and using Durabond with 50/50 water/fortifier. It's scraped down flat to the surface. Then bucket mud to finish.

I think Guardz will actually improve it over shellac.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Quad Racer said:


> I spent a lot of my time as a commercial finisher so its not somewhere I feel I should cut corners. I know there are things I do in other areas that would bug someone else.


If a wall has just been hung, there's no reason not to tape it - even I'll do that, it's just good practice. There really isn't much of a trade off there.


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## Mountain Man (Jun 3, 2013)

Demo the house and start over...


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