# Custom / Laticrete, what's in stock???



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hard said:


> UNMODIFIED THINSET
> 
> For my entire career I was always told that modified thinset is the best and if you are dealing with laboratory conditions that is very true but in the real world where you have critical time lines it is not the case your best bet is a PREMIUM UNMODIFIED THINSET do to the that the additives work with a modified you are supposed to allow for a minimum of 30 days I believe according to the TILE COUNCIL OF NORTH AMERICA hand book and we all know that this cant ever happen further more if the ambient moisture conditions are not optimal that wait time can be stretched out indefinitely


:blink:

Did you know that PORTLAND CEMENT is the "additive" that takes 28 days to _fully_ cure? Did you know portland is also in non-modified thinset?

I hate to tell you my friend, you have been misled.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

FHS said:


> As far as Laticrete goes i can only get that shipped in, but just grouted 800 sf today with the spectra lock and really prefer quartz lock 2.


The Dal here won't stock the StarQuartz and I think that's stupid... although I understand that they already have commitments with Custom and Laticrete I think they should at least carry 4 or 5 popular colors... or maybe StarQuartz should anty up and put a little pressure on :whistling:
Having a little in stock is great for rush jobs where waiting 4 days does not work... at that, "in stock color selections" become quick and easy with a customer


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## Aaron Tritt (Feb 4, 2011)

I have found that most manufacturers make a high quality mortar. It depends on the job and the availability which mortar I use.

I like Custom Pro Lite, or Mapei Ultra Lite for wall tile. I like how smooth the Ultra Lite trowels more though.

Ultra Contact 2 is too grainy for my liking, so for a medium bed or thinset mortar, I also like the Pro Lite.

General thinset and CBU, Versabond Flex is fine.

Never used laticrete mortars, but I don't like the epoxy at all.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I've been talking with Henry about the 255 so I'm sure he'll get a skid there soon :clap:


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## opiethetileman (Apr 7, 2005)

no such thing ever as a BAD bag of a LATICRETE product PERIOD.:whistling:whistling I know one time i bought a flat of UF2 from lowes. Its was RS in regular bags. They had it on clearance for 5 bucks a bag so i made out.

also heard there is going to be a better laticrete distributor here in jacksonville florida very soon. BEDROSAINS is getting the AX...............that by FAR is awesome ..


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## opiethetileman (Apr 7, 2005)

angus242 said:


> :blink:
> 
> Did you know that PORTLAND CEMENT is the "additive" that takes 28 days to _fully_ cure? Did you know portland is also in non-modified thinset?
> 
> I hate to tell you my friend, you have been misled.


yes angus i knew all that and also that a properly installed grout on a floor should be wet for 30 days with a mister to fully cure


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

But it sounds like someone else isn't as informed.


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## opiethetileman (Apr 7, 2005)

angus242 said:


> But it sounds like someone else isn't as informed.


agreed........................


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I spoke with Henry today on some various topics... 4xlt is spec'd for 6 qts of water for thinset (although, I was aware that the instructions also say to keep mixing water until you get the desired, creamy consistancy). My ratio ended up to be around 7.25 qts to 3/4 bag in which I thought that was too much but apparently OK as long as I achieved the proper texture when done in which I did so nothing was wrong although that kinda freaked me out 
Either way, I like the 255 the most and Henry contacted the local rep, Dal and his other Pa reps and getting it on the shelf asap. They are also looking into getting a few colors of PermaColor in stock.
Ill live with that... the only thing I have to wait for is QL2 which is a few days out when I have their product spec'd for jobs
:clap:


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

*portland cement*



Tech Dawg said:


> The Dal here won't stock the StarQuartz and I think that's stupid... although I understand that they already have commitments with Custom and Laticrete I think they should at least carry 4 or 5 popular colors... or maybe StarQuartz should anty up and put a little pressure on :whistling:
> Having a little in stock is great for rush jobs where waiting 4 days does not work... at that, "in stock color selections" become quick and easy with a customer


I hate to tell you that when you are referring to Modified thinset it is referring to the acrylic additive in it witch gives the Portland more time to bond to porcelain tile over concrete or cement backer boards because the porcelain tile is not as absorbent as ceramic or stone if you follow the TCNA handbook you will you will see that to give modified thinsets the appropriate drying time it takes a large range there is one product on the market that will allow you to use an unmodified thinset but I will not mention it for the fact that I do not want to be label as a sales rep witch I am not by the way the reason for the added dry time for modified products is that the acrylic in them has time to form finger like crystals that help with the bonding of the tile to the substrate and if you walk on the surface then you will brake them and they will not grow back


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

First of all.....can we buy a period "." :laughing:

Portland crystallises. Doesn't matter about polymers being present or not. It's the nature portland to grow crystals. That's what gives mortar its strength.


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

angus242 said:


> First of all.....can we buy a period "." :laughing:
> 
> Portland crystallises. Doesn't matter about polymers being present or not. It's the nature portland to grow crystals. That's what gives mortar its strength.


not if it bonds and drys before it bonds to the tile smart guy and no you cant by a period I don't believe in them they are made up so that teachers feel important


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

The crystals start forming as soon as water is mixed in. That's what the slake is for. 

Periods are also for the eyes....makes it much easier to read a 200+ word run-on sentence.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Hard said:


> not if it bonds and drys before it bonds to the tile smart guy and no you cant by a period I don't believe in them they are made up so that teachers feel important


 Nice attitude - you're gonna go far here :thumbsup:

Grammar, punctuation, and sentence structure are for the aid of the reader, not-so-smart guy. A run-on sentence with none of those things are very hard to read and even more difficult to decipher where one thought ends and another begins. Good luck.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Hard said:


> I hate to tell you that when you are referring to Modified thinset it is referring to the acrylic additive in it witch gives the Portland more time to bond to porcelain tile over concrete or cement backer boards because the porcelain tile is not as absorbent as ceramic or stone if you follow the TCNA handbook you will you will see that to give modified thinsets the appropriate drying time it takes a large range there is one product on the market that will allow you to use an unmodified thinset but I will not mention it for the fact that I do not want to be label as a sales rep witch I am not by the way the reason for the added dry time for modified products is that the acrylic in them has time to form finger like crystals that help with the bonding of the tile to the substrate and if you walk on the surface then you will brake them and they will not grow back


So what's the product on the market? We're all adults here and if your not a salesman, that's ok! We're always looking at new advancements here in the tile field and like to learn about new stuff :clap:


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> So what's the product on the market? We're all adults here and if your not a salesman, that's ok! We're always looking at new advancements here in the tile field and like to learn about new stuff :clap:


Hmmmm, a product that let's you use un-modified??? Let me take a drink of my orange koolaid and think that over!


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

jarvis design said:


> Hmmmm, a product that let's you use un-modified??? Let me take a drink of my orange koolaid and think that over!


I think Hard has some kind of additive that works with un modified thinset but he won't tell us what it is?? At that, I would just assume that we all move on with life :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Yeah, it's called admix....


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

jarvis design said:


> Let me take a drink of my orange koolaid and think that over!


Make mine Raspberry Koolaid and don't forget to pass the Grey Goose. :whistling


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

CompleteW&D said:


> Make mine Raspberry Koolaid and don't forget to pass the Grey Goose. :whistling


Oh.....are we ordering adult beverages? I'll take a Sam Adams Boston Lager. :drink:


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> Seriously, I need some damn punctuation here... it is now finally getting on my nerves.
> If you want to go into another thread that someone else starts and not punctuate, that's fine... other than that, if its my thread and you don't then I will let Angus loose on ya :boxing:
> :laughing:



All kidding aside you should get on schluters web site they have some really informative classes that are completely they include hotel stay and dinners you just have to get there check it out I hated the thought of laying tile on plastic but it all makes sense


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Sounds like someone was Schluterized at a _free_ class :whistling:


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Sounds like someone was Schluterized at a _free_ class :whistling:


yeah I was but that is because it all makes sense. Have you been


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hard said:


> yeah I was but that is because it all makes sense. Have you been


Son, I'm pretty certain I've thrown away more Ditra Handbooks than you'll see in the next 5 years. 

This is my Schluter paraphernalia I found after only a 2 minute search. Yes, there's fancy orange certificate somewhere in there.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Hard said:


> I am shaking in my boots big bad Angus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







:whistling:whistling


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Son, I'm pretty certain I've thrown away more Ditra Handbooks than you'll see in the next 5 years.
> 
> This is my Schluter paraphernalia I found after only a 2 minute search. Yes, there's fancy orange certificate somewhere in there.


And what has your problem with them been I love feed back from anyone that has a negative thought about things so I have all the info possible and can make my own decision


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

No negative thoughts really. Just found a product I like a lot better.

If you really read around the internet, you find many folks that install Schltuer material with _modified_ thinset. I believe Schluter needs to get their act together and get out of the 1950's and the "uncoupling" world. Did you know that Schluter specs a modified thinset for their European applications? I don't suppose the chemistry of Earth is much different between the 2 continents.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

Hard said:


> I am shaking in my boots big bad Angus*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


OMG.... some punctuation! Didn't think it was possible. :clap: I guess Hard just needs a little motivation and that punctuation just flows.


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

no biggie I can take it. Angus I think we as a trade should try to get back to the 1950's when people actually gave a crap. I am not saying that you don't care but, there are to many that don't and it is frustrating


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

CompleteW&D said:


> OMG.... some punctuation! Didn't think it was possible. :clap:


that was for tech dawg not you :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hard said:


> no biggie I can take it. Angus I think we as a trade should try to get back to the 1950's when people actually gave a crap. I am not saying that you don't care but, there are to many that don't and it is frustrating


There were morons in the 1950's and there's more now. It has nothing to do with just the products. It has to do with the knowledge base of the installers.

Not picking on you but let's use you as an example. You have a newly found orange fetish. That's great and all but what if you had an exterior deck that needed to be tiled? How about an exterior sidewalk? What about a steam shower? You cannot convince me that Schluter products would be the best option in those situation. 

My point? There is more out there other than the orange kool-aid. Are they bad products? No way. However, their specs are stupid in certain situations and because the company won't back down from that stupidity, it made me wonder. Numerous not returned tech support calls kind of sealed the deal. There are other companies out there that are just as good, if not better. I can use a better thinset (in certain situations, IMO) and I always get a live person or a phone call back quickly if I have a question.

Schluter really dropped the ball on this deal:








It's obviously Kerdi/Ditra connected to Noble Linear drains. Did Schluter bother getting involved? Hell no. Noble did. Actually advised me on what to do with the Schluter products.

That is a winning attitude to me.






and isn't his easy to read with punctuation, paragraphs and proper spelling? :laughing:


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

angus242 said:


> There were morons in the 1950's and there's more now. It has nothing to do with just the products. It has to do with the knowledge base of the installers.
> 
> Not picking on you but let's use you as an example. You have a newly found orange fetish. That's great and all but what if you had an exterior deck that needed to be tiled? How about an exterior sidewalk? What about a steam shower? You cannot convince me that Schluter products would be the best option in those situation.
> 
> ...


I can see your point but they do have products that would be perfect for steam showers, patios and for side walks they should have got involved with the drain issue but I see why they didn't it was because they have there own line of linear drains and they obviously have a horrible rep in your area I am lucky and have a good guy here


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hard said:


> I can see your point but they do have products that would be perfect for steam showers, patios and for side walks they should have got involved with the drain issue but I see why they didn't it was because they have there own line of linear drains and they obviously have a horrible rep in your area I am lucky and have a good guy here


Schluter drains were not available back in 11/2010.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Hard said:


> I can see your point but they do have products that would be perfect for steam showers, patios and for side walks they should have got involved with the drain issue but I see why they didn't it was because they have there own line of linear drains and they obviously have a horrible rep in your area I am lucky and have a good guy here


California should have some good reps out there to push the product and butter ya up since that state is just coming around to allow it throughout the state and meet the strict codes out there........ check back in a few years


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Schluter drains were not available back in 11/2010.


we all have our own favorites plus the only thing we can compare is a bunch of technical crap we live in very different climates so out door needs very greatly from your place to mine


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> California should have some good reps out there to push the product and butter ya up since that state is just coming around to allow it throughout the state and meet the strict codes out there........ check back in a few years


I will check back. I can't lie though I will have to buy a lot of there crap for the reps that I was with to get paid back for my BAR TAB:thumbup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hard said:


> we all have our own favorites plus the only thing we can compare is a bunch of technical crap we live in very different climates so out door needs very greatly from your place to mine


You talk about installers integrity from the 50's so that why I'm stressing to you; don't buy the unmodified hype. When a vast quantity of Schluter installers are using modified thinset; bucking the Schluter warranty, that should tell you something right there.

It's great that you care about installations and want to do a superior job. Just don't let 1 company tell you about thinset when all the others, _including_ the TCNA are saying something different.


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## Aaron Tritt (Feb 4, 2011)

I have been the to schluter conference as well. Their presentation and hospitality are very good. 

The logic that the company has is sound, and their product is tested in a lab (along with millions of square feet of installations).

I have used many of the uncoupling membranes with modified thinset, including ditra, and have never had a problem.

I personally like the new Spiderweb uncoupling underlayment more because it is easier to fill in the indents with thinset. The price point is slightly lower too. 

It also allows the use of a modified to ease my mind in stone and porcelain installs.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hard said:


> just plain old unmodified customs in gray or white and some times I use hydroment
> 
> tecch dawg why would you give away kirdi


You are using unmodified to adhere the Ditra to a plywood subfloor. Why? 

Schluter requires modified to install Ditra to a wood subfloor. 

What's kirdi?


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

HS345 said:


> You are using unmodified to adhere the Ditra to a plywood subfloor. Why?
> 
> Schluter requires modified to install Ditra to a wood subfloor.
> 
> What's kirdi?


no they don't usin modified voids the warranty


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

HS345 said:


> You are using unmodified to adhere the Ditra to a plywood subfloor. Why?
> 
> Schluter requires modified to install Ditra to a wood subfloor.
> 
> What's kirdi?


Wow, that makes me think of the thread that Opie had here where he tore out a bath floor, Ditra was set with unmodified thinset and he rolled up the tile and Ditra like carpet


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

angus242 said:


> You talk about installers integrity from the 50's so that why I'm stressing to you; don't buy the unmodified hype. When a vast quantity of Schluter installers are using modified thinset; bucking the Schluter warranty, that should tell you something right there.
> 
> It's great that you care about installations and want to do a superior job. Just don't let 1 company tell you about thinset when all the others, _including_ the TCNA are saying something different.


angus I understand that you can use modified and be okay but I am a general and in the great state of California i own everything I do for 10 years so i want the warranty what are the other companies


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Hard said:


> angus I understand that you can use modified and be okay but I am a general and in the great state of California i own everything I do for 10 years so i want the warranty what are the other companies


What's the Schluter system warranty??


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> Wow, that makes me think of the thread that Opie had here where he tore out a bath floor, Ditra was set with unmodified thinset and he rolled up the tile and Ditra like carpet


I have heard the same thing but I have tried to explain to people that is why it works it is just like an un-bonded float deck mud floor what was wrong with the floor Opie tore out


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Hard said:


> I have heard the same thing but I have tried to explain to people that is why it works it is just like an un-bonded float deck mud floor what was wrong with the floor Opie tore out


The origional installer set the Ditra to ply with unmodified thinset and the floor failed after 2 or 3 years :blink:


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> The origional installer set the Ditra to ply with unmodified thinset and the floor failed after 2 or 3 years :blink:


there is a lot of variables there what was the spacing of the joist and the thickness of the plywood I no you don't know this info probably but i would bet that both spacing and thickness were not within the specs


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## ROVACON (Apr 19, 2010)

Hey TechDawg....to get back to your OP :laughing:..... I am very fortunate to have Laticrete and MAPEI thinset materials regularly available from near by suppliers. One even carries DITRASET.

I also have choice from Schluter and Noble products. Mostly everything is in stock. However, I have never needed a linear drain yet.

I prefer MAPEI thinsets and use Noble Seal and Schluter Products pretty much evenly.

Delaware is a good place for tile guys......:thumbup:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Hard, we're talkin about a new construction home built to Florida codes.....
Your delusional over all this... your saving $ with the unmodified thinsets but ya gotta pay out the wazoo for Schluter???
You should install some Noble membrane or HydroBan shower before you give us outdated koolaid... Noble Seal TS is imo a better sheet membrane, creases better seams with Noble Seal 150, great tech support and universal from floor to wall. Noble also authorizes uses of liquid membrane with their product like HydroBan, AquaDefense etc...
Both Noble Company and Laticrete are winners of the industry with all the support to tile contractors and their known online presence.
There's many other companies out there like Mapei, Star Quartz, blah blah... Angus has much luck with Mapei but not available to me and Star Quartz's QuartzLock2 grout is definately some good stuff, at that, its a shame that we can't get some online appearances from them but who cares if the product is good!!!

Noble Company WILL NOT throw back any type of failure to a thinset or grout company and leave the scene, although there is zero known failure with Noble that I've heard of....Eric stands by the product and works with others to keep good relationships :clap:
As a pro, your sitting yourself in a market where you could lose a job to a wannabe diy'er that can Special Order Schmerdi from Home Depot....while Noble is siding with the pro's making it more available to us only

Also, we do have other threads here :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hard said:


> no they don't usin modified voids the warranty


Using unmodified over plywood voids their warranty.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Hard said:


> I have heard the same thing but I have tried to explain to people that is why it works it is just like an un-bonded float deck mud floor what was wrong with the floor Opie tore out


You better go back to Schluter school, and pay attention this time, because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

Hard said:


> That was for tech dawg, not you. :laughing:


I understand, but since we were piling on.... (quote corrected for punctuation of course):laughing:


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## Hard (Nov 24, 2010)

man you guys are some tough bastards


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Hard said:


> man you guys are some tough bastards


Nah, not really... everytime we have a little fun it gets shot down :laughing:
Schluter is a good product, many switched but I can say that nobody here really hates it all that much cuz if a customer wants it then it will make ya $$$ :clap:


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## opiethetileman (Apr 7, 2005)

i will try and find thoose pictures. i am dead tired poured 48 bags of SLC today and gonna tile 1300 feet in one day in the am............


todd is correct i just lifted the floor up like a vinyl sheet. Folded it up and walked down stairs. They would have been better off using carpet pad the way it was installed


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Holy crap... next week, I'm settin 200 sq feet of Dal Seal(floor, jacuzzi deck and shower walls on CI base). Then I have 2 HydroBan showers quoted and another Noble setup on the books...... I thought about trying some Kerdi board out but I don't want to reverse any band wagon jumping


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