# ? about who wires a boiler..



## sponge racing (Apr 12, 2008)

Guys thanks for the responses, Im the homeowner so goin to let these 2 guys battle it out. Sucks just being in the middle of the 2. When the 2 guys gave me a bid for doing the house neither talked about wiring the boiler. I would think the plumber should do it just cause its his appliance and its his no how.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

how long have you been at building your house? Do you have a company?


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

mikeswoods said:


> Woodchuck---One circulating pump is often used to feed two or more zone valves.--MIKE--


Ahhh, OK. Never seen someone use valves for control but that makes sense now. From what i always see is each thermostat is wired into a control box which in turn controls each zone by actuating the zone circulator. Obviously i dont do any plumbing/heating so i wasnt sure, thanks.


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## MLE (Jan 25, 2010)

New to this forum and first real post. Here in Md. We have this dispute from time to time but more so with a homeowner building their own house.
Generally if an Hvac company is installing the boiler, they will do their own controls. If a plumber is doing the install it's like rolling a dice on the control work. We don't see a lot of radiant heat anymore and if we do it is usually tied into a geothermal unit. So maybe demographics plays a factor here.
When we bid a job such as a house it is a per unit bid so our contract would say will provide power to one boiler or one 15Kw ht pump. If we got there and had a zone control, 5 zone valves and 5 circulation pumps ect. that would not have been in our price and in doing a neat job would be time consuming. A lot of times the plumber will sell the home owner on a hot water circulation pump so they don't have to wait 30 seconds to get hot water and again that pump needs power and it's 50 feet across an unfinished basement and a lot of homeowners think that it is the responsibility (not extra) of the electrician to hook up anything that ends up in their utility room. We will electrically hook up anything as long as we are paid to do so.....


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

thom said:


> It's the electricians job, however.....
> 
> Oftentimes the electrician on the job thinks he's smart enough that he won't read the wiring diagram. He screws it up. Then someone must pay to replace the circuit board, controls, motors, etc. It's the electricians fault but he insists the stuff was bad to begin with so an argument ensues with the GC in the middle.
> 
> ...


Thom, WTF? Wearing your d*ck hat today? 


It is NOT "the electricians job". It is whoever's job agreed to do it. 
I'll admit that this is often overlooked in the bidding planning stages. I make it a point to ask since many systems can be pretty involved and I don't want to get forced into doing something for free I did not bid on. I will say it IS something I usually do, unless it is some complex radiant system. In those cases the high $$ radiant guys do EVERYTHING themselves. 

This is something a GC would catch early on, but with so many "homeowner GC's" these days it is their own fault when things like this happen. 
I see it ALL the time. Job coordination. Scheduling. Conflicts. Responsibility. Etc. _
"Come on. How hard can it be to GC my own house"_.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> _"Come on. How hard can it be to GC my own house"_.


But the guy on TV did it!:clap:

Thom I know what you mean about electricians who screwup control systems; but thats what separates a good electrician from a complete idoit. If you can read a diagram your good to go.


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## MarcD (Sep 18, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> But the guy on TV did it!:clap:
> 
> Thom I know what you mean about electricians who screwup control systems; but thats what separates a good electrician from a complete idoit. If you can read a diagram your good to go.


 
OOo its hard to screw them up.. Black and Black go together, white and white, and then if there are extras those all go in one big nut and then you are done no need to read :jester:


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## sponge racing (Apr 12, 2008)

That easy awesome ill do it myself.lol J/k


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## Bad Boy Biker (Dec 12, 2009)

Who is on the job site?
Heating guy only.....his job.
Electrician and heating guy.....electrician does the line and the heating guy does the low.
Problem with that, I send in one of my staff and back charge the sub.


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## sponge racing (Apr 12, 2008)

They both still have work to do. The electrician ran the bx cable but the control box and all of that he says they dont do it.. Plumbers job!!


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## AWKrueger (Aug 8, 2008)

On any boiler installation I've worked on, the pipefitters install the boiler and do the piping. Then the electrician [who knows heating systems and how to wire them] will take care of the line voltage, pump circuits and all low voltage control circuits. The experienced boiler guys can typically do both the piping and the wiring, but the wiring doesn't come out all that great and they don't know the NEC requirments all that well.


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## MLE (Jan 25, 2010)

Think about this.... If you were having a new boiler system installed in your existing house, the company that installed it ,would do all the wiring because that is what they do. Hvac companies usually have a control man (unless your using some one man show) . As an electrician I feel for your electrician because I'm quite sure he thought and bid to provide power to (20 amp circuit) your boiler. Did your plumber sell you the system ?? Boiler,pumps,zone valves ect.???? or did you buy the equipment and pay him to just do the piping. I'm sure your electrician can do it but didn't expect to and didn't put that in his bid price.
Bottom line here is ,What do their contracts say? Plumber = will install
Electrician= will provide power to.. or.. will wire new boiler.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

loneframer said:


> Line voltage = electrician
> 
> Low voltage= heating contractor.


thats what i would say :thumbsup:


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

plummen said:


> thats what i would say :thumbsup:


That's funny. Many HVAC/plumbers want me to do the lo-vo as well.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> That's funny. Many HVAC/plumbers want me to do the lo-vo as well.


Some here, but usually because the lo-volt stuff is in their contract and they're just trying to hornswoggle me into doing it for them. If I do, they make more $$ at my expense. But I don't because my contracts specifically state I don't do contol wiring for the HVAC.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

the reason is liability in my book.most electricians dont understand control wiring,although its pretty simple and dont wont to be on the hook if something happens down the road.if im doing the electrical on a house ill usually just run the wire for the low voltage and let the mechanical guy hook it up so theres no questions about how it was done.if im doing the mechanical i will hook it up since im responsible for the equipment in my book anyway. :thumbsup:


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## partimer31 (Apr 7, 2009)

*who wires the boiler?*

I live in the northeast. So winters here get down below - 0- some of
the times.

I would add to any job, boiler wiring, time and material.

I don't like to wire then because if they go out in the winter, and
and the cause is my wiring, then my insurance get hit.

So I try to meet the boiler man half way. He supplies all parts to make
the heating system works the way the customer wants it. And if he
no so great at the wiring mech. I will do it, and he'll be there making sure
I get wire the way he wants it. And somethimes we even have to call
the product support line.

So far I only burn out one control unit, which I pay for the replacement.

And I got about 20 boiler's and furnace under my belt.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

partimer31 said:


> I don't like to wire then because if they go out in the winter, and
> and the cause is my wiring, then my insurance get hit.


So wire it right the first time and move on.
Then again you are not an electrician. IMO you should not be wiring boilers. Sorry. Just MHO.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Bad Boy Biker said:


> Who is on the job site?
> Heating guy only.....his job.
> Electrician and heating guy.....electrician does the line and the heating guy does the low.
> Problem with that, I send in one of my staff and back charge the sub.


That's the easy answer from the GC's stand point. What difference does it make who is on the job site other than the superintendent would be inconvenienced having to make a phone call to get the guy who is responsible for the work back on site to finish his job? 

Loneframer got it right. Line voltage electrician, low voltage HVAC. We write our contracts like that everytime, regardless of what each had in their proposal, and they can take it or leave it. I have been through that pissing match too many times. 

If there is conduit involved, that would be the electrician, with a pull string ready for HVAC to pull his cute little LV wire.


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## partimer31 (Apr 7, 2009)

*who wires the customer boiler?*

Thanks Speedy Petey for your honest reply.

I started wiring boilers at the age of 16 under my father, who
ran a plumbing & heating business.

Things back then were very simplistic. With today boilers, somethings
I feel that that the boiler man should do the wiring from start to
finish.

Not being a license electrician, doesn't mean I don't understand
how the code and the wiring practices as they applied to boiler wiring.

But personal I would perfer not to be involve in wiring any boiler of
the new generation.

Thanks for your comment.


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