# Fair estimate?? Orlando, FL area....



## ejyonkman (Jul 20, 2006)

Hey everyone! Here is my problem. I have gotten some drastically different estimates. Here is the situation... remodeling an enclosed porch to an outdoor kitchen/tiki bar. This is an 'L' shaped space. In the corner of the space is the entrance into the kitchen and along the short side is a door leading into a bathroom. 

On the short side of the L there will be a built in grill and a bar sink with hot and cold running water. Along the long side of the L will be a refridgerator, counterspace and then another bar sink with hot and cold running water. The sink by the grill is right next to the bathroom (apx 8 feet from center of L)and the sink by the fridge is apx. 26ft from the center of the L (kitchen entrance). 

Am I right in assuming it could be tied into what is going into the bathroom and then ran from there to both the outdoor sinks? 

All I needed was a general estimate to put into my bid for my client. Both sinks are hot/cold and will not be used for washing dishes or anything. Maybe just rinsing out glasses and washing hands and getting a drink or filling icecube trays. 

I remind you.. this is in the Orlando area, in a house that is probably no more then 50 years old, and trying to keep costs down, we are providing the sinks, faucets, ect... so just the pipes and supplies needed by the plumber are to be included in the cost. I guess I just want someone to tell me what they think it should cost within reason and I'll compare that to what I have. Is it even possible to give me an idea from this information???

Hopefully someone will answer this!!!

Thanks!


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Don't make a move to finish this estimate until your plumber has looked this job over.

If I'm reading this correctly, you want one sink close to the existing bathroom area, but the other is 26'+ away? Where are you going to vent these two sinks?

The bathroom one might be close enough to use an existing vent, but no way the other sink is.


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

It's impossible to provide even a ballpark based on the limited info you provided. Even though the sinks may see "limited use" they're still fully-functional sinks according to the plumbing code, so they'll have to be drained, supplied, and vented as such. Given that, the piping in the bathroom may not be adequately sized to take an additional two sinks. There's also the issue of how to get from the long side of the "L" to the bathroom without cutting out the slab, how to get proper pitch from the fixtures, etc. 

While this sounds like a simple "I just wanna add two sinks" thing when you explain it via the internet, there's probably a lot more to it than first meets the eye, which is why you're getting different bids. Your best bet is to walk through the bid that seems to be the most thorough, and review all of the steps required to accomplish what you're trying to do. This may reveal some of the shortcomings of the lower estimates.

Good luck,

Bob


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Anytime I ever think something having to do with plumbing is "a piece of cake", I stop myself and send the plumber to look at it.

Putting in fixtures is the easy part. Vents have caused me a lot of problems this year alone. It often costs more to run a vent than to run supplies and install fixtures.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

IF... you get drastically different estimates for anything, one guy noticed something that the other guy didn't. If you go with the cheaper guy, his end price will be near the more expensive guy's price once the job gets going and he realizes what he missed. That's just one of the axioms of construction.


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## ejyonkman (Jul 20, 2006)

What do you mean by vent? LOL I'm completely lost with this plumbing business! Which is why I, of course, came to the great minds here! The kitchen is also adjacent to this area. We are totally redoing this area, pouring new concrete and everything...


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

ejyonkman said:


> What do you mean by vent? LOL I'm completely lost with this plumbing business! Which is why I, of course, came to the great minds here! The kitchen is also adjacent to this area. We are totally redoing this area, pouring new concrete and everything...


Plumbing fixtures require a drain to the sewer or septic system. That drain pipe must have another pipe tapped off of it no more than a certain distance from the fixture for sewer gases to escape. Typically the vent runs up to the roof. Sometimes the vent can be run out the side of the house but it can't be near any windows.

Running a rigid pipe up through one or more stories of finished living areas can be a bear. Sometimes it even has to be chased which is a major PITA, messy, disruptive, and EXPENSIVE.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

ej, your profile says you do roofing. If that is the case, you have possibly flashed more vents in your career than most people will see in a lifetime.

Its those little pipey looking things that poke out of the roof.


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## ejyonkman (Jul 20, 2006)

oK... That makes sense.. but this is outdoors! I understand it may still need to be vented. But since it is an outdoor kitchen wouldnt that make it a lot easier?! 

Please tell me I'm not starting to sound stupid.


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## ejyonkman (Jul 20, 2006)

Double-A said:


> ej, your profile says you do roofing. If that is the case, you have possibly flashed more vents in your career than most people will see in a lifetime.
> 
> Its those little pipey looking things that poke out of the roof.


LOL, I KNOW WHAT A VENT IS.. Just wasnt exactly sure about the whole plumbing version. Thanks for the enlightenment. :blink:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Most plumbing codes do not distinguish between 'indoor' and 'outdoor' plumbing fixtures. The need for a vent can be demonstrated with a straw. Dip it in a liquid, put your finger on the end and lift it out of the liquid.

You've just trapped liquid in the straw. This is how well your new plumbing will work without a vent. 

Now, take your finger off the end and the liquid drains out rapidly. This is how you new plumbing will work with a proper vent.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

ejyonkman said:


> oK... That makes sense.. but this is outdoors! I understand it may still need to be vented. But since it is an outdoor kitchen wouldnt that make it a lot easier?!
> 
> Please tell me I'm not starting to sound stupid.


There is still the code to be delt with, and most codes say you have to extend the vent above the roof, and some codes do allow for a vent to run up an outside wall, but they too must penetrate the roof or be turned down 180 degrees and the end covered with some sort of 'bug/varmit' proofing, usually a screen.

If your remodel will allow you to put the vent in the wall, do it. It'll look much nicer than running up the side of the house on your new "outdoor" kitchen. Good luck!


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## plumber jay (Nov 1, 2006)

A drain that is not vented will still drain. Not as well but it still will. The primary purpose of a vent is to maintain atmosphric pressure within a plumbing system. This means to protect the trap seal. If the sinks outside will not be used often you may want to look into trap seal primers or atleast tell the owner if the drain starts to smell after it hasn't been used in awhile to turn the tap on for 10 seconds to put water back in the trap.


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## able14 (May 6, 2007)

*fair quote*

Im with plumber jay the vent protects the trap seal what about a studor vent or air admitance valve as far as a price does the slab have to be cut is plumber cutting slab repairing concrete .what kind of fixtuers how many dishwashers garbage disposals gas piping under mount sinks what kind of faucets why would you supply fixtures and not get them from youre plumber I would not give you a warranty on fixtures you supply and if parts are missing youre paying extra for us waiting around


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## Plumber (Apr 19, 2007)

*Modified vent?*

In my state we are allowed to use a modified vent on kitchens and bar sinks. Which is a min. of a 2" pipe which runs to the drain by it self and ties into 3" (so both sinks have to be ran seperate). Under the sink you still tie it together off the 2" riser with 1-1/2 p-trap assembily. The odd part of this is we are not require to put mechanical (studer) vents under the sinks. (But like a few others has mention get your local plumber there! They know the codes of your state or that county.)

my .02 :whistling 

Good Luck!:thumbsup: 

Michael


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## cmvsap (Jan 8, 2007)

*youre quote*

in mass. to rough and finish 2 wet bar sinks or sinks other than kitchen would be roughly $2000. without any fixtures. orlando not sure of the rates. youre question got way of topic. hope this helps.


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