# Finding Good Lead Carpenter



## jakejorgenson (Mar 17, 2009)

What job boards and ways do you use to find qualified employees? We've been trying to find a good lead carpenter and have had a tough time getting a decent hire. The guys we've tried have been big talkers but haven't performed once they've been given the chance on the job.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

The Yard Boss & the Guys who work the desk at the Lumber Yard were always a good source.

I had a couple of very good friends who were also GC's...depending on work load etc. we shared lead guys. Other crew members were also a good source.

Check with your local Employment/Unemployment office. They usually have a board listing who may be available for work.

I was usually able to filter most fact from fiction while talking with a guy. Certainly looking at his tools & how he handled them spoke volumes.

Before all these dam calculators you could toss a guy a Framing Square & shoot him some numbers & ask him to layout some stairs or come up with a few rafter lengths etc....

I suppose now days it's how much the turds on his resume are polished & how fancy his calculator is & if he can use it...:laughing:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)




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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Now that's some funny chit....:laughing::laughing::thumbup::whistling


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Have you tried right here on CT?

We have a lot of qualified people, just post an add in the help wanted section. Just like griz I have also had good luck with asking the lumber yard if they know any body.

Cole


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## KnottyWoodwork (May 23, 2010)

Cole82 said:


> Have you tried right here on CT?
> 
> We have a lot of qualified people, just post an add in the help wanted section. Just like griz I have also had good luck with asking the lumber yard if they know any body.
> 
> Cole


Nobody good comes from CT. :whistling


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

put add out for lead cut man that will weed out some b/sh#ters. and some funny replies


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## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

I have been working on a general knowledge test to see how much they know. That way I dont have to waste half a day with one who says he's a carpenter but hardly qualifies as a laborer.


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## otislilly (May 30, 2012)

Hard to just hire a good lead man, they already have a job, and a plan b and c waiting for them to bounce from it..
Need to accept that your choices are limited and make a choice.
#1 start with what you can get, and start breaking the bad habits that made him out of work, for you to hire.
#2 start with a completely green one and train him up for years, your way.
#3 start spending some time scouting out that guy that keeps ticking you off at the lumberyard, and catch his lead man on break, or at the closest store after work, and buy him off to come work for you. Dont mean he will be good, but it would be fun anyways.


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

I've trained several carpenters over the years and I tell you what- I don't care half as much about previous experience as I do about intelligence and coordination. I can teach the required knowledge fairly quickly but what I can't overcome is stupidity or inability to hold a saw in a manner that doesn't scare the shiz out of me. I say look for someone who has a quick mind and is self motivated over some jack ass that let his mom write his resume for him.


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## Dmitry (Aug 23, 2010)

griz said:


> The Yard Boss & the Guys who work the desk at the Lumber Yard were always a good source.
> 
> I had a couple of very good friends who were also GC's...depending on work load etc. we shared lead guys. Other crew members were also a good source.
> 
> ...


I never understood all the fuss about using framing squares, even though i prefer calculator because it's faster and more accurate, I can do the same tasks with framing square no problem- its no rocket science.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Dmitry said:


> I never understood all the fuss about using framing squares, even though i prefer calculator because it's faster and more accurate, I can do the same tasks with framing square no problem- its no rocket science.


If you're doing repetitive cuts with a compound miter saw, or something like that, I'd agree a calculator is faster. If you are doing layout lines on your material, a framing square is faster. Calculators are more accurate, but how accurate do you have to be for a rafter length?


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## KnottyWoodwork (May 23, 2010)

hdavis said:


> but how accurate do you have to be for a rafter length?


1/128"


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

*spike7*

i`ve put out so many ads for carpenters/foremen /helpers.

i`ve learned over the years not to say exactly what i want
yea , that sounds silly , but it works better .
if you say " looking for lead carpenter strictly for finish work ""
every guy will call , and say they can do that , and figure they will bluff their way into the position .
every guy will say " i can do it all"
when i ask what tools do you have they most always say " i have all my tools "

now , when i put an ad out i specify like this:

i`m a contractor , i need carpenters , or helpers for my project.
please email me with a resume , and list of exactly what type of construction you are most comfortable with ( finish , rough , carpenter -helper , lead carpenter ....etc)
please let me know what part of town you live in ( i don`t want to have someone who has to drive an too far , and that become an issue)

also please specify a list of the tools you have , just so i know what you are prepared for
please let me know what type of vehicle you have."
" please tell me where your working now , or where you worked last 
if you have referrals , and pictures , please send them too.

at that point i can quickly check down my emails ,and see which guy writes back , and sounds like he will be a good fit.

if i say its for rough work . everyone will call , and say " i`m your guy"
if i say strictly "finish work" the same guys will call , and say " i`m your guy"

they are all so desperate for a job , they have to try.
but i don`t have the time to get to know them , and if they are qualified on the job after i already hired them.
i have put out ads , and gotten over 60 responses . if i give each guy 5-10 minutes on the phone it takes hours to go through them all.

it sucks so many guys are looking for work . i really feel for them
i`m in miami
i`ve had people call from denver , chicago , and different states who say " i`ll relocate right now. i need work , if you can give me the job , i`ll drive down tomorrow 
i always let them know i wouldn`t want them to do all that for me .what if they get down here , and relocate , and we find out we aren`t a good fit for each other ?. what if i can`t keep them busy year around ?
i would feel terrible


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Paying above a living wage will get you a good carpenter. But employers don't want to spend more then they have to. Just like a shopper at Wallmart they to are looking for a top of the line item at a Made in China price. 

If you are paying whatr every other GC is paying why would anybody want to jump ship? Pay $10 more per hour and you will find a lead carpenter that will work his a$$ off for you. 

Example. In my area carpenters with 8 years of experice will get around $15 to $18 per hour to run work. All GC's pay this. But pay that guy $25 perr hour and he will produce.Increase it to $30 and he will glady run for you. He knows that , he is getting top wages and wants HIS employer to make money. Then he will keep making top wages.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Gary H said:


> Paying above a living wage will get you a good carpenter. But employers don't want to spend more then they have to. Just like a shopper at Wallmart they to are looking for a top of the line item at a Made in China price.
> 
> If you are paying whatr every other GC is paying why would anybody want to jump ship? Pay $10 more per hour and you will find a lead carpenter that will work his a$$ off for you.
> 
> Example. In my area carpenters with 8 years of experice will get around $15 to $18 per hour to run work. All GC's pay this. But pay that guy $25 perr hour and he will produce.Increase it to $30 and he will glady run for you. He knows that , he is getting top wages and wants HIS employer to make money. Then he will keep making top wages.


I disagree with this logic. Why not give him double or triple what the others are making? Prove to me what your worth, and your ceiling is unlimited. I would never pay anyone a ridiculous wage right off the bat just to snag him away from a competitor. Anyone who has employees knows how ridiculous this is. Guys talk, and once you overpay, the whole crew will line up for a raise.


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

My guys get paid an incentive pay. Is that something that is done in construction as well? The guys that work harder and produce more with fewer errors get more money. 

We pay them hourly for everything they do and then they have the opportunity to earn a bonus depending on labor on the job. Makes then get to it when they can make 15 or 20 an hour to clean carpet.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Gary H said:


> Paying above a living wage will get you a good carpenter. But employers don't want to spend more then they have to. Just like a shopper at Wallmart they to are looking for a top of the line item at a Made in China price.
> 
> If you are paying whatr every other GC is paying why would anybody want to jump ship? Pay $10 more per hour and you will find a lead carpenter that will work his a$$ off for you.
> 
> Example. In my area carpenters with 8 years of experice will get around $15 to $18 per hour to run work. All GC's pay this. But pay that guy $25 perr hour and he will produce.Increase it to $30 and he will glady run for you. He knows that , he is getting top wages and wants HIS employer to make money. Then he will keep making top wages.



I would agree that paying an above average wage is a good way to attract and keep good men. Like warren said though, I wouldn't offer an extreme wage right off the bat. I have a starting wage for helpers, journey , and seasoned vets.

If you build nice projects and have a rep for keeping your hands busy, pay well and on time, Grizs advice should land you a bad azz lead imo.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

I find I'm not liking to lead a crew to build a house for any less than 300$ take home a day:blink: How much an hour is that?? 57$ or so??


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

There are so many variables with help. We've had guys that were super smart they would know things that could only come from years of standing around watching other people work. Our business only needs so many thinkers, my dad and I are two of them. Knowing how to do it and being able to do it are different animals.

We have guys that work at lighting speed, do fair work but miss things along the way because their always in such a hurry.

We have guys that never screw anything up, seldom does anything slip past them but they move at a turtles pace. 

We've got some that are in between but are only really there to collect a check.

I don't know how you could ever figure any of this by a resume. I usually put them to work at our starting wage to see what they got. If the've got what they say I jump their pay before their first check. If not they stay the same.

Sometimes it varies by the day, who is worth the most money.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

JT Wood said:


> what's the difference between an angle and a mitre?


That question baffled me. A mitre is an angle...

Difference between a mitre and a bevel?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

SC sawdaddy said:


> If one of them says something about curf and losing 3/8 in in the 4' cuts and 3/4 in the 8' cuts I'd probably hire him based on that one answer.


Would you hire him if he just asked you how big the piece of plywood was? :whistling

:laughing:


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## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

Brutus said:


> That question baffled me. A mitre is an angle...
> 
> Difference between a mitre and a bevel?


I've always considered an angle cut to be with the grain. like a common cut on a rafter. A miter is across the grain like a jack rafter.

That might not be exactly right, but its my test I can grade it how I want.:smartass:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

SC sawdaddy said:


> :
> So...what did I leave out?


1-How do you find the lengths of your hips?



SC sawdaddy said:


> Ok heres my general knowledge test, tell me what you think. I dont expect an aplicant to know all the answers but it will definitly give me an idea if he's worth giving a shot on the job.
> 
> Skills and General Knowledge Test
> 1. In inches, how long is a 4 foot level?_48_
> ...


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

13. A dryer usually has about____240_____volts.
14. How many square feet in a square yard?_9_
15. Can you cut out a set of steps with a framing square?_if it's very sharp_:blink:
16. What is the back side of a 40 degree angle?:blink::blink:
17. How many square feet in an 18 x 20 room?_360sf_
18. What is the difference between a miter cut and an angle cut?_A miter can be cut on many angles and by turning the bevel off of 0° one can compound it:blink:_
19. What is the most important thing to consider on a roofing job? _The location of the edge:blink: _
20. How many nails are used to nail an asphalt shingle?_:whistling_
21. A house has 15 cabinets and 18 drawers. If the cabinets get 6 hinge screws and the drawers get 2 knob screws, how many screws do you need in all?_Fu(k it and always buy plenty:thumbup:_
22. What is the purpose of plywood clips?_Who cares_
23. How many one foot by one foot pieces can you cut out of a piece of plywood?_4X8=21 pieces:no:_
24. What is the purpose of a GFI receptical?_To act as the ground fault interrupter _
25. What is the best distance away from the wall to install a toilet drain?[/QUOTE]_I never wanted to be a plumber:no:_


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

SC sawdaddy said:


> I've always considered an angle cut to be with the grain. like a common cut on a rafter. A miter is across the grain like a jack rafter.
> 
> That might not be exactly right, but its my test I can grade it how I want.:smartass:


You could ask any questions you want with whatever you believe the answers to be, the best fit is going to be the one that's thinking just like you.:thumbsup:


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

DWB is a smart azzz. :laughing:


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

Brutus said:


> DWB is a smart azzz. :laughing:


Yep he is. My kind a people


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

ill give it a whirl

Skills and General Knowledge Test
1.	In inches, how long is a 4 foot level? 48
2.	A plumb bob is used for determining¬¬¬¬¬ what? plumb
3.	Name three types of levels. box, lazer, water (stabilla, fat max, tru blue)
4.	Which is longer an 8d nail or a roofing nail? i'v seen 3" roofers...
5.	If you make $8.50 per hr. and work 22 hours how much money did you earn? less than the babysitter...
6.	A coping saw is usually used to help install? iv never used a coping saw to install, iv used one to cope. mouldings... does that count?:whistling
7.	What is a chalk box used for? a plumb bob:clap:
8.	How many square feet will three bundles of shingles cover? depends on brand and line, usually 100
9.	How many studs are in an 8’ wall framed 16” o/c? 7 or 9 if outsides are doubled
10.	What is a bird’s mouth? a beak:thumbup:
11.	A 10/12 pitch is a ____degree angle. need my speed square to answer:sad:
12.	A common wall outlet usually has about_____110____volts.
13.	A dryer usually has about_______volts. 110 if gas, 220 if electric
14.	How many square feet in a square yard? 9
15.	Can you cut out a set of steps with a framing square? need a saw:no:
16.	What is the back side of a 40 degree angle? 50
17.	How many square feet in an 18 x 20 room? 360
18.	What is the difference between a miter cut and an angle cut? :blink: a miter and a bevel?
19.	What is the most important thing to consider on a roofing job? water travels down hill :whistling
20.	How many nails are used to nail an asphalt shingle? 4 - 6
21.	A house has 15 cabinets and 18 drawers. If the cabinets get 6 hinge screws and the drawers get 2 knob screws, how many screws do you need in all? 2 boxes
22.	What is the purpose of plywood clips? they take the job of nails:laughing:
23.	How many one foot by one foot pieces can you cut out of a piece of plywood? depends how big a piece of plywood it is and kerf of blade.....
24.	What is the purpose of a GFI receptical? to be broken when i need power from it.... its purpose is to spite me
25.	What is the best distance away from the wall to install a toilet drain? the same as the rough for the toilet... don't rough a 14" at 12"... just say;n


did i pass?!


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

SC sawdaddy said:


> Ok, yeah... but I'm giving this test to young bucks who just want a job not a bunch of seasoned contractors trying to find a loop hole. If one of them says something about curf and losing 3/8 in in the 4' cuts and 3/4 in the 8' cuts I'd probably hire him based on that one answer.


Kerf,

(That's for JF.) :laughing:


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## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

world llc said:


> did i pass?!


Yep you and DWB can start loading the sawbenches and then start cleaning up.:laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

SC sawdaddy said:


> Yep you and DWB can start loading the sawbenches and then start cleaning up.:laughing:


I gotta drive to the north shore today to play with 6X14s beams:whistling


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## donerightrob (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm in the states, west coast. I have had a hard time finding skilled carpenters, and even aprentice or good labor. I require clean cut, valid license (with clean record), drug free, hard working, etc, etc...a good amount that have the skills are too old to perform the job anymore or get snagged at the drug free/driving parts. 

So it seems that the rest of the world is having the same issues that I am. I did train a guy for 3yrs only to have him go to alaska this year to dredge for gold with his cousin. I was paying him $20hr, one weeks paid vacation a yr, $500 xmas bonus and insentive programs on most jobs....I didn't think that was too bad for a 25yr old kid who started with me knowing nothing.

I now have guys that I don't have total trust in and are not my ideal employees, trying to find the right people has always been difficult, but over the years, it have gotten almost impossible.


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