# Makita skill saw vs. worm drive saw



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Easy Gibson said:


> When I frame I like to start the cut, then when I get about 3/4 of the way through, I throw the board, with the still-running saw in it, at the ground. That usually finishes the cut, and puts the saw on the ground which is right where I want it for when I have to pick it up again.
> 
> Warren, you frame a lot. That's generally how it's done, right?


:laughing:

I swear, you crack me up about every other post of yours I read :laughing:


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## Sunset Designs (Dec 15, 2014)

Easy Gibson said:


> When I frame I like to start the cut, then when I get about 3/4 of the way through, I throw the board, with the still-running saw in it, at the ground. That usually finishes the cut, and puts the saw on the ground which is right where I want it for when I have to pick it up again.
> 
> Warren, you frame a lot. That's generally how it's done, right?


Sitting in my truck waiting for my guys to get here and almost spit my coffee all over the steering wheel after reading this :thumbup:


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## Sunset Designs (Dec 15, 2014)

On that note, the only guys I ever see running sidewinders out here are cabinet installers. Outside of that I haven't seen a framer use anything other than worm drive. I personally use a Bosch worm drive with detachable cord. I hope it doesn't die on me since they don't make them anymore....


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

For what it's worth, I just made a beauty of a cut on a butcher block counter slab with my worm. As Ethan said earlier, the key is that I get the length of the saw added to my arm. I can focus on the cut and I get to keep my weight on my feet instead of leaning over the workpiece. True.


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## MZOGS (Nov 21, 2014)

i have some older 77's that are still going strong their are heavier and take some getting used to but you can also use that weight to your advantage when cutting. heard the new mag 77 are the bees knees also the same as the bosch


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## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

I learned on a worm drive. That is my preference. We use mostly worm drives for framing, but we also keep a couple Makita sidewinders on board for several reasons. One is the fact that the blade is on the opposite side. If you have to make a cut close to something, its nice to have the option of a left or right bladed tool to chose from. The second reason is we have a larger rip fence we use for ripping lvls to width. It wont fit on any of our worm drives but fits the Makita ones.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

muskoka guy said:


> I learned on a worm drive. That is my preference. We use mostly worm drives for framing, but we also keep a couple Makita sidewinders on board for several reasons. One is the fact that the blade is on the opposite side. If you have to make a cut close to something, its nice to have the option of a left or right bladed tool to chose from. The second reason is we have a larger rip fence we use for ripping lvls to width. It wont fit on any of our worm drives but fits the Makita ones.



I do the same thing, have a makita and a dewalt in the trailer. Occasionally one of the new guy pulls it out, and we make fun of them for a while


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

jlsconstruction said:


> I do the same thing, have a makita and a dewalt in the trailer. Occasionally one of the new guy pulls it out, and we make fun of them for a while



:laughing:
I'm a sidewinder guy and that's funny.

Maybe just because watching the new guy pull something out that the rest of the crew kind of scoffs at but still its funny.


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## Robinson1 (Mar 14, 2014)

You guys arguing about sidewinders vs. worm drives is the same thing as Ford vs. Chevy and 9mm vs. .45 ACP


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## Sprtman (Aug 16, 2010)

I own 2 9mm and it's the 45ACP all the way.:thumbup:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

9 mm is a toy vs a .45


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## Sprtman (Aug 16, 2010)

Is there any real advantage that offsets the extra weight, other than cutting sheet goods? The majority of my work is cross cutting 2 x's and ripping 5/4 boards and 5/8""" fence pickets. I don't see any advantage for what I do. Very happy with my Makita, Dewalt and Rigid sidewinders.:clap:


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## hillbilly512 (Jul 27, 2012)

I grew up using sidewinders. My first saw was a Makita sidewinder my uncle bought 30 years ago when he started his company. But I moved and my boss has all worm drives and I hated it when I started but I learned the pros and how to use them the right way for every cut. I will never go back to a sidewinder and for the it's too heavy, I'm 140 lbs on a good day and I cut overhead, hang out and cut tails and fascia. It's 9mm vs 45 I had a 9mm got rid of that for a 45 never gonna go back to 9. But it's all personal preference 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

Warren I am always amazed when you tell us how old your equiptment is.

I suspect that you are a custom framer.

Production crews chew through saws for various reasons. When I worked production I would always have 4or 5saws for parts. Saved my boss lofts of money fixing his equiptment over the years.

Life of any saw on our crews, was about 8 months. Living in the NE we are sidewinder believers. Yes, I have used the other, but as a person that cut and laid out for years. Just never could get used. To them

As far as 9mm compared to 45,theyeach have there place......


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Framer53 said:


> Warren I am always amazed when you tell us how old your equiptment is.
> 
> I suspect that you are a custom framer.
> 
> ...


I am sure that has a lot to do with it. Back when we used to do some production framing, the tools did take a greater beating. Even then, I was on top of maintenance and made sure to have back ups. I don't ever recall a motor in a saw biting the dust. Most of the fatalities were from falls. The maintenance was generally cords, triggers, and brushes. A few minutes of time, and ten dollars in parts.

I have tightened up my tool purchasing in recent years. The bad economy a few years ago made that a necessity. I do not hesitate to buy what is needed however. Just in the past month I have spent about $1000 in tools.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

Use what you like. I have always liked a worm drive better due to the blade placement. 

But with the Mag77LT out there.....weight is no longer an argument. IMO I could literally hold that saw straight out in front of me and make a cut. I could do that with a Mag77 also but the LT is a lot easier to do so. 

As far as reliability, I have said this many times here, I stopped using a Mag77 (USA built) when it started acting up and bought a Ridgid worm drive. It has lasted 8 years without a hiccup. It still is a great, strong saw. Still works the same as the day I bought it.

I bought the Mag77LT to mount a Prazi to and found I really like it. Skil has done a good job redesigning their stuff. I took off the Prazi and have been using the LT for the most part now. The Ridgid is still their just in case and I bought a used Mag77 for the Prazi. 

I own two sidewinders. One is a DeWalt that was my first saw so I won't get rid of it. The second is my cordless Makita, but it's blade is on the correct side :jester: and I only use it for the occasional cut here and there.


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## MakitaMan (Sep 2, 2012)

After reading all your posts and opinions I called a friend of mine who I know used to always have a worm saw in his truck to ask his opinion and he said, "forget buying one come take one of my old saws." Picked this beauty up last night, pretty solid saw took it apart and gave her a tune up. New 15' cord, new blade, and a good cleaning and wax job. I ripped up a leftover cedar fence post into boards for my kids to play with and it did not take long to understand that this saw is not a sidewinder. Meaning I had to treat the saw a little different to not fight the weight but once I got it figured out the weight seems to work to my advantage. Im actually a little surprised that I may get used to this saw. The only thing Im not sure of is getting my guys to figure it out and use it when it can benefit the work we are doing. I think it will be a good saw for cutting rafters and stair stringers but we shall see.
Anyways thanks again for all the input
Pete


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

That is a great way to become a worm driver. $free.99 can't be beat. 

Get used to it, become a pro with it, THEN bring it out to the regulars and make them get used to it. They'll want to love it because their superior does. They'll have no choice.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

Larry Haun used a worm drive until his death at the age of 80. Never heard him b!tching about weight.


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

We probably have 30-40 wormdrives in our concrete division. I have seen some last less than a week from hard abuse, some last a year. All skil. Mostly converted over to LT's now due to rotation. There a whole crate at our warehouse of just skilsaws dead. You want to see a hard life for a tool, visit a production forming crew doing deck work on high rises, form, pour, strip every 5 days... We have 2-3 replacements of anything on hand, literally money is no option, schedule is number one. 

Drops, grit, cords, theft (dodgy jobsites downtown SF), lost or buried in formwork ( left a 5k genny two weeks ago, couldn't get it out without serious demo, dont ask).

Our shop looks like a place where tradesmans dreams go to die. You name it its sitting there, we need a quality shop foreman to start handling these tools organization and repair, but truth is... Does it pencil out?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

elementbldrs said:


> We probably have 30-40 wormdrives in our concrete division. I have seen some last less than a week from hard abuse, some last a year. All skil. Mostly converted over to LT's now due to rotation. There a whole crate at our warehouse of just skilsaws dead. You want to see a hard life for a tool, visit a production forming crew doing deck work on high rises, form, pour, strip every 5 days... We have 2-3 replacements of anything on hand, literally money is no option, schedule is number one.
> 
> Drops, grit, cords, theft (dodgy jobsites downtown SF), lost or buried in formwork ( left a 5k genny two weeks ago, couldn't get it out without serious demo, dont ask).
> 
> Our shop looks like a place where tradesmans dreams go to die. You name it its sitting there, we need a quality shop foreman to start handling these tools organization and repair, but truth is... Does it pencil out?



I'll come take all the tools you don't want


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## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

I've seen concrete crews that go through pallets of HD77 worm drives every 6 months. It has very little to do with the saw and more to do with how they use them. If you are using a sidwinder and want more life try out a Makita worm drive. You will probably see 1 year vs 6 months. There is a reason concrete crews use worm drives, not because they are better but because the durability is better, or they take more abuse. Some crews are hard on tools and you could give them an anvil and they would find a way to break it. This is common in our field.

A lot of what type of saw people use is regional and comes down to what they are used to using. Some people swear by a worm drive because of the blade, but others use a sidewinder. It's familiarity.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jlsconstruction said:


> 9 mm is a toy vs a .45


I got a 9mm for my wife. It's a gun she can shoot without it kicking her ass


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## rmcivil (Jan 13, 2015)

Thought I would keep this one alive because it's a valuable thread.

Grew up around an old timer who used sidewinders and therefore learned on one. Graduated HS and got on production where they used worms. I found them strange. For a while I used my sidewinder; yes I got made fun of. Eventually worked with the worm enough that I noticed it's value. Later on I inherited a HD77 (USA made one and still have it and still use it) now it's like an extension of my arm. Try to take it away I'd use it like a weapon to defend it and me. It takes a short time of getting used to. Once you get used to it you will laugh at the squiggly sidewinders. The ability to cut accurately with a SW vs. a WD is not comparable.

One thing I will say for safety sake is don't try to learn on one. Learn how a saw works and make some crappy cuts. Once you figure it out use a wormdrive, don't look back.

And get a .40 and stop arguing about both inefficient calibers.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

jiffy said:


> I've seen concrete crews that go through pallets of HD77 worm drives every 6 months. It has very little to do with the saw and more to do with how they use them. If you are using a sidwinder and want more life try out a Makita worm drive. You will probably see 1 year vs 6 months. There is a reason concrete crews use worm drives, not because they are better but because the durability is better, or they take more abuse. Some crews are hard on tools and you could give them an anvil and they would find a way to break it. This is common in our field.
> 
> A lot of what type of saw people use is regional and comes down to what they are used to using. Some people swear by a worm drive because of the blade, but others use a sidewinder. It's familiarity.


Why so fast doing forming? I don't see how its possible.. especially once you are out of the mud going up..


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Our crew is doing a floor every 5 days. Shore, deck, reinforce, pour, strip, reshore, jump floor. 5 days.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

elementbldrs said:


> We probably have 30-40 wormdrives in our concrete division. I have seen some last less than a week from hard abuse, some last a year. All skil. Mostly converted over to LT's now due to rotation. There a whole crate at our warehouse of just skilsaws dead. You want to see a hard life for a tool, visit a production forming crew doing deck work on high rises, form, pour, strip every 5 days... We have 2-3 replacements of anything on hand, literally money is no option, schedule is number one.
> 
> Drops, grit, cords, theft (dodgy jobsites downtown SF), lost or buried in formwork ( left a 5k genny two weeks ago, couldn't get it out without serious demo, dont ask).
> 
> Our shop looks like a place where tradesmans dreams go to die. You name it its sitting there, we need a quality shop foreman to start handling these tools organization and repair, but truth is... Does it pencil out?


You need to find a trade school that would be interested, they can teach the students how to fix and maintain the tools that they use, then they can keep them. 

Although it'll probably come down to liability as someone will try to sue after getting hurt... People suck.


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## mike d. (Dec 2, 2009)

I started out using a sw. We just called them saws. When I became a union carpenter in NYC, all we used was a skil 77. Eventually I bought one and I love it. I have a ws built in USA. I was almost going to sell it but when I come to this forum most rave about the skil 77's made in US. I think the weight is an advantage. But I dont use the same hammer or screw driver for everything. I take a sw for light weight work. Iam 61.:thumbsup:


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## sy85 (Aug 14, 2011)

Still remember when I first used a worm drive. Until then I only had experience with reg circ saws, blades on the right, light as heck, etc etc. Got one because of the raving of how good a worm drive is etc. And my thought process went something along the lines of:

a) Damn, this is heavy! Wtf am I gonna do with it?!
b) ... h e a v y.
---
[Turned it on, torqued my arm from not knowing what to expect]
c) @#^&!!!! I'm in love.

Then having used that ever since, and swapping to my cordless Makita I got later on with the blade on the left- I went to use my friend's cordless Ridgid the other day like a year or 2 ago, for a quick cut, and my mind went blank for a good half minute trying to figure out what was wrong. Had to tell him it was broken. He asked why- I said, "Blade's on the wrong side."

All jokes aside I wouldn't mind it if I were a lefty, but I'm not. As to easier to use sidewinders being lighter etc- as 2 others pointed out, with the entrance of the Mag LT version- that's a null point. I have one and I started thinking, wtf am I going to do with my other 3 or 4 worm drives now...? But like it's already been said. It only matters if you like it. Just like Ford, Chevy or Dodge. It doesn't matter what truck you choose to drive, as long as you like it- they'll all work the same. But if you chose anything other than Dodge or Chevy, you chose wrong :thumbup:


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

You are all making me really curious about worm drives. Maybe I can convince the boss to finally spring for one. He's talked about it.


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Get the LT. So nice.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

That LT is comparable in wieght now to most sidewinders, so that can no longer be an excuse.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My lead loves this little Milwaukee fuel. He even rips with it.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> That LT is comparable in wieght now to most sidewinders, so that can no longer be an excuse.


I was just going to say the LT is lighter than my Milwaukee sidewinder according to the specs.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> My lead loves this little Milwaukee fuel. He even rips with it.



Have you started to call him Holmes on homes yet?


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## sy85 (Aug 14, 2011)

The only thing is be careful of with the LT (although I'm more careful in general) is I see lighter weights as: not the tanks of yesteryear. I know a lot of people cut and drop their Skils all over the place concrete surface be damned, and I can see that potentially warping plates etc. So I would be careful. I actually had to return the shoe plate on mine for an exchange but that was a mfg defect where it came warped from the store and not perfectly flat. I had like an eighth inch of deflection from front to back.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

If I'm the only one using the saw I'm not worried about damaging anything. It's when my helper gets a hold of it...


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Ideally the magnesium shoe takes a beating. More likely to break/crack than bend like the old aluminum shoe. We've had luck with the older models with mag shoe.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

I got my first worm drive at a yard sale for five bucks when I had an old framer working with me about ten years ago. He said "get that. You can't kill those things". I still use it occasionally on plywood, but prefer my Milwaukee with adjustable handle when I'm cutting all day. My wrist is getting tired of heavy tools.


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## rmcivil (Jan 13, 2015)

Californiadecks said:


> That LT is comparable in wieght now to most sidewinders, so that can no longer be an excuse.


I've used the regular mag quite a bit but not the LT. Does the fact that the LT is light(er) than a sidewinder make it feel "jumpy" like a SW usually is or does it have the same feel due to the wormdrive design? It seems to me that the weight of a WD is part of it's appeal. Drop cuts with a SW are no fun (or more like push cuts).


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