# what the heck is this 4s mud ring!?



## Richard_N_S (Jun 12, 2011)

It looks like they took a 2gang box and cut two of the support flanges off... but its factory made. Its not a standard 4s box. 

These same 4s boxes were used with single gang rings, which need to be extended because of gyp. They're all attached with rigid conduit and the homeowner, nor I, want to deal with or pay to remove the boxes, keeping the conduit or replace it all with NM. 

Anyone know where or how to get these old mud rings without having to pull all the boxes for new rings?

I've contemplated spot welding new mud rings, but that's another cost and PITA. 

Its probably from around 1920-1940.

Any takers?


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

is it 4 -11/16" square?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)




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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele...ers-device-rings/square-to-round-device-rings

They make standard ones similar but they may not be anywhere near the size you need to match


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## Red Adobe (Jul 26, 2008)

Your local supply house should be able to set you up
OR
Find an old timer in your area, they tend to have boxes of the old stuff....I know we do.

We have had to make some of the oddball stuff....Mainly for old lights with housing buried in brick 
I need to make 20 adapters to go from 12x12 to 4-O this week just waiting on the brushed nickel to come in.


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## JohnR (Jul 1, 2010)

That mudring is the older style, those boxes usually had a large tab. The new boxes that are 4"sq, have only the corner screws. Some of the older boxes would have screws in the corner and in those locations. 



History lesson over, I would see if your boxes have the corner screw location, if not just drill a hole in the new plates at those locations. 

A single gang or round mudring should have room for doing that, but a double gang probably won't.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

The box in the original post is an old 1900 box. I run into them in some of the older areas of Chicago. Drill a new style ring to fit the old box (as John suggested) or replace the box. 

All the conduit is most likely rigid in that home. Looks like gas pipe but is electrical tubing. I worked on one home where when you removed a device you could smell the methanethiol. The home had gas lights that were converted to electric lights when electricity arrived in the area. 

Tom


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> is it 4 -11/16" square?


That's what it looks like to me too. Looks like a round fixture P-ring for an 11B work box.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

tedanderson said:


> That's what it looks like to me too. Looks like a round fixture P-ring for an 11B work box.


He called it a 4S box, I've heard 1900 boxes called 4 squares. Looking at the knock out layout I'm pretty sure it's a 1900.

Tom


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