# Convert walk in shower to curbless



## skipmo (Mar 27, 2015)

I'm building a spec home and got a buyer during construction. The home interior is taped, floated and textured.

The new owner has asked me to research eliminating the curb on the master bath shower. The concrete is not depressed; I intended to install the curb, then have the tile setter slope the floor to the drain in the center of the shower. The shower is 42" deep by 80" wide and has 2 heads.

A while back I stayed at a new Marriott hotel and the only room available was handicapped. The restroom had the shower and toilet in one room about 8' by 6'. No shower curtain or device to prevent the water from spraying anywhere in the room. What got my attention was the fact that the slope was almost non-existent; very slight. There was no obvious mud bed for the floor tile.

Here's my question: Is there some new product, like a very thin "painted or sprayed on" product that allows one to eliminate the typical mud bed and cleavage membrane?


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

A curbless shower is designed with a linear or trench drain.

Not an easy retrofit at the stage you are at.

an example:

http://www.infinitydrain.com/


----------



## Philament (Dec 9, 2014)

Doesn't look like they make one big enough for your application, but this might help

http://arcfirst.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Install-ARCCurblessShower_M2015.pdf
http://arcfirst.net/tech-docs/


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Ask your tile subs for their opinions on options. They're going to be the ones doing it, so they may already have the answers, no?


----------



## 402joel (Sep 1, 2011)

Philament said:


> Doesn't look like they make one big enough for your application, but this might help
> 
> http://arcfirst.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Install-ARCCurblessShower_M2015.pdf
> http://arcfirst.net/tech-docs/


I just installed the ARC system in my own house, so far so good


----------



## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I'm not afraid to admit I just learned something. 

I've never seen a shower base that thin. We've done several 0 entry showers, but we always lowered the floor joists and built up a base. The ARC system looks really good. I think it will work great for our next bathroom with 0 entry. Have one to start on 4-15 and bidding another right now.

Thank you.


----------



## Philament (Dec 9, 2014)

I can't take full credit, another member on here, TNTSERVICES, has been using them and brought them to my attention. I have one on order that I should be installing in the next couple weeks. There's some trickyness with them, but they seem to be a very unique solution to a difficult/time consuming problem. 

A number of members on here have installed them and seem to have very positive feedback. I will say though their technical documentation is a little lacking when it comes to the waterproofing membrane (which i hear they are changing).


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

skipmo said:


> I'm building a spec home and got a buyer during construction.


So any of your installers ever use anything we've mentioned?


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Sound like your bath is built on a slab not over framing. The ARC is for framed applications. Also, the ARC system has a slope of 1/8" per foot. The guideline is 1/4" per foot. You might want to add cement/thinset to the perimeter of the area.

Assuming you have a centered drain, just change the drain to a linear drain. Yes, you have to chip out the cement. You could shorten the drained area if you have bench seats on either end. 

With a slab, you can use a liquid waterproofer on the concrete. Be sure to extend out past the shower floor by several feet or do the whole floor.


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

It looks like the OP might be a one-and-done. There isn't a cheap fix in any case. It's probably easiest to just cut out the slab and repour with room for the slope. Easy is subjective though:laughing:


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

EthanB said:


> It looks like the OP might be a one-and-done.


Serious?  I use "Remodel" in my name as a joke.....maybe I should change it to "General Contractor"? It appears general contractors don't know anything...nor ever have any subs/employees. Sounds like a good gig, working about as often as I remodel something.....


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

griz said:


> A curbless shower is designed with a linear or trench drain.
> 
> Not an easy retrofit at the stage you are at.
> 
> ...


Not always. Tuff Form comes to mind.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

olzo55 said:


> Sound like your bath is built on a slab not over framing. The ARC is for framed applications.


It can be installed over concrete. 

" You have a couple of options, though as always, we prefer installations that provide zero-threshold entry into the shower. You can remove concrete to a depth of 1″ in the area where the Tuff Form will go. We do this with a special concrete-cutting saw and blade, first cutting along an outline of the Tuff Form’s installed position, then making scoring cuts about 1" apart inside the perimeter cuts. We remove the remaining waste with an electric hammer drill and chisel. Use thinset mortar to bond the Tuff Form into the recess. Alternatively, you can install the Tuff Form on top of the concrete and build up the surrounding floor to end up with a level entry into the shower."


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It can be installed over concrete.
> 
> " You have a couple of options, though as always, we prefer installations that provide zero-threshold entry into the shower. You can remove concrete to a depth of 1″ in the area where the Tuff Form will go. We do this with a special concrete-cutting saw and blade, first cutting along an outline of the Tuff Form’s installed position, then making scoring cuts about 1" apart inside the perimeter cuts. We remove the remaining waste with an electric hammer drill and chisel. Use thinset mortar to bond the Tuff Form into the recess. Alternatively, you can install the Tuff Form on top of the concrete and build up the surrounding floor to end up with a level entry into the shower."


For what the Tuff form costs, why would you use it after you just prepped the floor by surfacing a pitch to the drain anyway?


Since the width of a shower is shorter than it's length(usually), a linear drain should go lengthwise in the opening. Assuming a 36x 60 area, the pitch on half the 36" width is 3/8" (1.5x1/4"). On the long edge, it's half 60" x 1/4" or 5/8". So you save a 1/4" of pitch which can be important. 

Another way to save height and match slopes is to use thin 2x2 in the shower and set thicker tile in medium bed thinset outside the shower.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

olzo55 said:


> For what the Tuff form costs, why would you use it after you just prepped the floor by surfacing a pitch to the drain anyway?


I wasn't recommending it, just saying that it could be used on concrete.

But off the top of my head I would say that concrete cracks. Waterproofing won't hold a Crack together. The pan won't transfer the crack. The tuff form installation will continuing to be watertight.


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

CO762 said:


> Serious?  I use "Remodel" in my name as a joke.....maybe I should change it to "General Contractor"? It appears general contractors don't know anything...nor ever have any subs/employees. Sounds like a good gig, working about as often as I remodel something.....


I have no idea what you're talking about. I was saying that he posted once on CT and never came back.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

EthanB said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about. I was saying that he posted once on CT and never came back.


And most of those liars use "General Contractor" as their trade...because they have no trade. They cannot talk about anything other than to lie and do their one post to get their "how to/how do I..." question answered.


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I wasn't recommending it, just saying that it could be used on concrete.
> 
> But off the top of my head I would say that concrete cracks. Waterproofing won't hold a Crack together. The pan won't transfer the crack. The tuff form installation will continuing to be watertight.


I suppose. Concrete cracks but does it crack continuously? Most liquid waterproofers supply some degree of movement accommodation. And some sheet membranes as well. 

Where the Tuff Form would be useful on a slab would be if the slab had known problems. It would be independent of the slab. But I would think a pro would take care of the problem slab in other ways before committing to tile.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

olzo55 said:


> I suppose. Concrete cracks but does it crack continuously? Most liquid waterproofers supply some degree of movement accommodation. And some sheet membranes as well.
> 
> Where the Tuff Form would be useful on a slab would be if the slab had known problems. It would be independent of the slab. But I would think a pro would take care of the problem slab in other ways before committing to tile.


I don't disagree, just answering the question.

EDIT: I have seen cracks in my basement slab and garage continue to get larger over the years. My garage hasn't seen a car in at least a decade. I don't know how you would address that after the fact. I've just never been a fan of using the existing concrete as a base. I want some separation.


----------



## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

Sounds like its to late for that change imo.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

cedarboarder said:


> Sounds like its to late for that change imo.


His tile guy knows a good carpet guy down the street.


----------

