# Explain these things to me....



## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

I'll admit, I'm halfway between a DIY'er and a pro when its comes to drywall. As seen in a previous post, I'm looking to invest in some automatic tools. Not sure how automatic, but something better and faster than what I'm doing now.

Anyways, after browsing through the past several months worth of posts (which I found very valuable), I have a list of questions:

1- What is meant by "hot mud?"

2- The threads on the "quick-set" (powder form) mud have left me confused. I understand that some guys are using this for quick repairs (tape, bury and skim coats). I also know of guys who use this for taping only so they can bury with regular pre-mix mud right away. Thoughts on this?

3- What is the definition of a bazooka? I understand that this tool applies tape and mud at the same time. What functions does a bazooka do at one time? 

What about the Tape Tech "mud-runner?" Or the Better-then-ever mud-tube system? Are these considered semi-automatic tools? Would these tools be a half-a$$ed way of finishing?

4- (edited to add this) Does anyone "sponge" their coats to reduce sanding? I'd like to hear more about this. I've read that this works well in corners. Comments?

Many thanks in advance.

steve


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Only help I can give is that 'hot mud' is the same as quick set. It hardens by a chemical reaction as compared to evaporation like conventional joint compound. As the mud sets, it gets warm, hence the term hot mud. I think of 20 minute, 45, and 90 minute as hot mud.


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

ProWallGuy said:


> Only help I can give is that 'hot mud' is the same as quick set. It hardens by a chemical reaction as compared to evaporation like conventional joint compound. As the mud sets, it gets warm, hence the term hot mud. I think of 20 minute, 45, and 90 minute as hot mud.


So that being said, there is more than one quick-set mud? The area home improvement places only carry one type... and it sets up awfull fast... many times it flashes over in the pan without warning. I've come to hate the stuff. If there's a 90-minute mix, that might be more useful to me.

Thanks for the reply.

steve


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

You might have better luck finding more products at a paint store as compared to a home improvement store. The hot mud I use is called Rapid Set 5. I can vary the setting time a bit by using different temp. water. Cold water in the mix sets up much slower than hot water. If I want extended working time, I mix with cold water. If I want a super fast set up, I mix with hot water. But, I really don't use this stuff often enough to be an expert on it. This just reflects my limited experience with it.


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## James Boyd (Jun 12, 2006)

Would Durabond be considered a hot mud?

James


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

James Boyd said:


> Would Durabond be considered a hot mud?
> 
> James


Yup :thumbsup:


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

ProWallGuy said:


> Cold water in the mix sets up much slower than hot water. If I want extended working time, I mix with cold water. If I want a super fast set up, I mix with hot water.


The above does correlate to some of the past experiences I've had with this stuff. I once souped a batch of it for taping a small room. Mixed it in a 5-quart ice-cream pail w/lid. That was the soupiest (is that a real word?) mud I ever used. It stayed workable all day while I taped a small bedroom. I used cold tap water.

On the next project, I didn't soup it up as much. The stuff got stiff within 5 minutes! I kid you not... it was like it OD'ed on viagra!! Ended up throwing half a pan of mud away... couldn't work with it.

It seems if I soup it well from the beginning, its okay. Otherwise, its gets away from me and sets too fast. I've thrown away nearly whole pan-fulls because of this. Some lessons I learned the hard way.

steve


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

For your best source for drywall products, now... this is going to sound crazy, but do you have a drywall stock house?:laughing: They will have everything in regard to drywall and some serious info for you also. Most of the guys in them really know their products.

There are 2 types of drywall mud

Setting and drying.

Drying is the stuff sold pre mixed in buckets it drys by air. Setting is powder from it drys chemically. There are 5, 10,20,45,90 minute setting compounds. You can turn a 90 into a 20 by mixing it with hot water or mixing it with waste water from the last batch, the chemicals in the waste water will speed up the chemical process.

I use only 90 and 20. 20 for repairs and 90 for everything else and I tweak it if needed. Setting compounds are the sh*t. I see no reason to use anything else for what I do. They dry quicker, dry harder and are easier to sand.


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

Mike,

This is great information. Thanks!! We have a real, honest to goodness supply house in town. I will check with them for the Durabond and similar products. As mentioned, Lowe's and Home Cheapo have the 20 minute stuff, which is okay for repairs... but it can get away real fast...

The 90 minute sounds more like my style. I will try to hunt up a bag locally. I have a few rooms to hang and finish in a few weeks and my bucket of pre-mix is running pretty low.

Thanks again.

steve


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

steve-in-kville said:


> 4- (edited to add this) Does anyone "sponge" their coats to reduce sanding? I'd like to hear more about this. I've read that this works well in corners. Comments?


Steve, I do sponge-sand some patches, but only to feather the edges. 
I use a sanding screen attached to a shop vac, and hit the whole thing with that first. I use a _damp only_ sponge, and swipe at the edges _from the paint/texture into the patch_. And justever so lightly, until the texture meshes nicely with the patch.


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## linkster01 (Apr 7, 2006)

As for the better than ever systems. I bought the compound mud tube and the direct flusher and it helped us fishinsh inside corners much faster than when we did them by hand. I have used mechanical corner boxes, and yes they are faster than the BTE system, but BTE is considerably cheaper.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

The fast setting muds (30, 60 or 90) do harden faster because of the chemicals used in them. But when you are doing heavier coats of mud it still takes a lot longer for the moisture (the water you add to the mixture of powder) to dry. I've had inside corners take two days to dry to the sanding and recoat stage even using 30 minute mud (just because the moisture hasn't gone out of the mud yet). Great stuff for patching and painting or drywall repairs. But have found it not so beneficial for full blown taping jobs...


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

Thanks for the replies thus far.

steve


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

theworx said:


> The fast setting muds (30, 60 or 90) do harden faster because of the chemicals used in them. But when you are doing heavier coats of mud it still takes a lot longer for the moisture (the water you add to the mixture of powder) to dry. I've had inside corners take two days to dry to the sanding and recoat stage even using 30 minute mud (just because the moisture hasn't gone out of the mud yet). Great stuff for patching and painting or drywall repairs. But have found it not so beneficial for full blown taping jobs...


I would have to say that something isn't right. What you are describing is virtually impossible. Maybe in Bora Bora with 101% humidity and in a rain storm with a room with no roof?:blink: 

I've used it many times for full rooms and I really can't even imagine how I could get the stuff to act as you are describing even if I wanted to?:blink:


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## cedy (Sep 7, 2006)

*hot mud!*

Hot mud is a great product and I find myself using it more and more. I tend to pick a premixed though when doing a large job- the open time is wonderful and if one pays good attention it is almost always chunkie free. One thing people don't remember though with a hot mud is that it contains chemicals that harden up the mud no matter how much water you add to it. Lets say you have a pan of 20 min and you need 10 more minutes -- well you can't add water to loosten it up- you have to throw it away and start over- this is a problem that inexperienced drywallers suffer through and not much helps but experience. One thing I see sometimes is people that empty out their pan then add more powder/water to it .. Again that is a huge no-no. That pan has to be completely spotless -knives too before you can start mixing again. Here's what happens if you don't. Your new batch of 20 min will turn into 5 min if your lucky. If I was a homeowner that was doing drywall repair I would most likely avoid hot mud alltogether. 

Ohh yea one more thing -- has anyone had any success using texture in a can-- I've done a million patches and never once had a good result with those products. I prefer my hopper and compressor every time.


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