# Trim-out's



## MO-AMPS (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey I am trimming out a 12-house sub-division, and like always a smoothe almost completed project has a problem.

So here's the problem no.1 HVAC
Hvac crew are saying that they are not responsible for wiring whips into there condensor, there second complaint is that they are not responsible for wiring furnace internal....... meaning that after I drop a piece of emt down to a sp/sw i suppose to take there cover off ther furnace and do the internal wiring

Problem no.2 Carpenters
Carpenters are saying that they do not install mounted microwaves ,it is the elec job.

Well my answer is to the HVAC, elec don't open hvac equiptment and to the carp is that to install a mounted micro. has absolutley nothing to do with electric. 

So I was curious with other elec contractor view point on this.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I think both is true. I feel I am the one who should do the final connections for the HVAC equipment, even though they often do as a courtesy. The microwave falls to the electrician many times because nobody else wants to do it. The HVAC one is a no-brainer to me, but the microwave one is a gripe for me, but I do it anyhow.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

HVAC, I do ALL line voltage stuff. About half the time I even do the low voltage runs and connections. 

Furnace/boiler. I typically do the same thing. ALL line volt stuff, most if not all the low volt as well. 
It amazes me how many electricians AND plumbers have only half a clue how to wire a boiler.

OTR micro? Forget that. That IS most definitely "someone else's" job! 
I provide the receptacle in the cabinet above. That's it.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

MO-AMPS said:


> So I was curious with other elec contractor view point on this.



What does your contract state?


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## MO-AMPS (Jan 16, 2007)

well the way i feel about that is if the home owner chooses later on down the line that they would prefer a diferrent brand of hvac equiptment, well the mech. permit allows for that minor wiring ,well what is the different from a change out, to a new install 

I know it may sound a little petty but i would rather keep $240.00 than just give it away

12 whips 10.00=120.00
man hrs 1= 15.00
12 micro's 0 costs 
man hrs 7= 105.00 

that's if I have a good day


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## MO-AMPS (Jan 16, 2007)

Celtic said:


> What does your contract state?


 well to be honest i did not specify 

It is one of those situation choose-your-battles i would rather keep the peace and eat the man hrs and material and keep getting this builders buiness it jus seems rather odd hvac get out with not even testing there equipt.

I would go so far to say if i was hvac mech i would not want a app elec wiring my equipt just for warranty reason, I mean let's face it on trim-out my lowest pay app is doing that most of the time.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

MO-AMPS said:


> well the way i feel about that is if the home owner chooses later on down the line that they would prefer a diferrent brand of hvac equiptment, well the mech. permit allows for that minor wiring ,well what is the different from a change out, to a new install


The HO deciding at a later date that they want an upgraded appliance selection can easily run in thousands of dollars.
The HO would need to run that through the GC to first see what options are available.
Honestly, I have never heard of a HO wanting to change out the HVAC package...maybe the kitchen appliances, counter/tile selections, carpet and such...but these are mostly cosmetic issues.

How would it be handled if the HO decided they wanted a wall oven and cooktop as opposed to one single range?
Or a sub-zero as opposed to a Whirlpool?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

MO-AMPS said:


> I know it may sound a little petty but i would rather keep $240.00 than just give it away





MO-AMPS said:


> well to be honest i did not specify
> 
> It is one of those situation choose-your-battles i would rather keep the peace and eat the man hrs and material and keep getting this builders buiness it jus seems rather odd hvac get out with not even testing there equipt.


Choosing your battle may just lose you $2880+.....this time....next time it might be 50 or 100 units...then what?


Someone's gotta do...and someone should be compensated for it.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

FWIW... I always plan on doing the final connections for the heating and cooling equipment. If I find it's already been done by the HVAC man, that's a bonus for me and not a loss.


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## MO-AMPS (Jan 16, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Choosing your battle may just lose you $2880+.....this time....next time it might be 50 or 100 units...then what?
> 
> 
> Someone's gotta do...and someone should be compensated for it.


 
you riite about that i forgot that 3 dishwasher wasn't there....... now i know that is elec responsibility but to have a man drive 35min to install 3 dish when the inspctor has all ready finall me out a tuff one also
but it sounds so so petty to complain about.


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## MO-AMPS (Jan 16, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> FWIW... I always plan on doing the final connections for the heating and cooling equipment. If I find it's already been done by the HVAC man, that's a bonus for me and not a loss.


 
i hear you md it make sense just need to charge for that ......my local elec contractors buddys all are saying that to.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

If I have to put up the odd micro/hood, I call that a gesture of good will, since it costs no parts. It doesn't happen all that often anyhow. Mostly on the jobs where the builder doesn't actually own tools, and everything is getting subbed out. They should get the Lowes delivery guys to hang the microwaves... the same guys that put on 4-wire cords on ranges and don't remove the bond strap. :furious:


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

Here, the standard would be:

A/C whips, yes

Line voltage to air handler, yes (pigtails or hard wire)

NO appliance installation.

Micro, outlet only in cabinet above. 

Vent hood, pigtail

DW/Disp pigtails.


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## Chris Simms (Oct 19, 2007)

MO-AMPS said:


> Hey I am trimming out a 12-house sub-division, and like always a smoothe almost completed project has a problem.
> 
> So here's the problem no.1 HVAC
> Hvac crew are saying that they are not responsible for wiring whips into there condensor, there second complaint is that they are not responsible for wiring furnace internal....... meaning that after I drop a piece of emt down to a sp/sw i suppose to take there cover off ther furnace and do the internal wiring
> ...


 
Its pretty common un this area that the HVAC do all their hookups including pulling the wire to the panel and the electrician wires in the panel with their SUPPLIED breakers. As far as the microwave goes we pretty much treat it as a appliance as long as it is their along with the other appliances.
Chris


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

mdshunk said:


> FWIW... I always plan on doing the final connections for the heating and cooling equipment. If I find it's already been done by the HVAC man, that's a bonus for me and not a loss.


This does happen quite often here as well.


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

MO-AMPS said:


> well the way i feel about that is if the home owner chooses later on down the line that they would prefer a diferrent brand of hvac equiptment, well the mech. permit allows for that minor wiring ,well what is the different from a change out, to a new install
> 
> I know it may sound a little petty but i would rather keep $240.00 than just give it away
> 
> ...


 

If the price of the whips wasn't $10 a piece I would figure this post was from back in history. You figure labor cost at $15 an hour? Are you in a third world country? I don't think I would want guys making less than that opening a furnce up either.


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## Ponsse (Dec 12, 2007)

In my state it is not a matter of whether the HVAC guys are willing to to the job or not, it all comes down to licensing. Most HVAC guys are only "Low Voltage" licensed. This means they can run and hook up thermostat wire, but are legally not allowed to touch the line voltage side of things. We have a few electricians that have moved over to the HVAC side and do the whole job themselves

On a little sidenote, the HVAC guys are allowed to change out parts (line voltage) as long as it is an "integral part" of the HVAC unit. HVAC guys were changing out fuses on the larger rooftop units because the fused disconnects were mounted on the side of the units, so now we are making a stand out of unistrut and mounting the disconnects alongside but not on the units, so now they have to call an electrician.

That'll learn em!


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## te12c02w (Jun 1, 2007)

Mostly as MD stated here. I know the lv and power hookups belong to the licensed guys,but if some of that stuff is done before we get there I get to keep that little bit of profit. I always put a clause in the contract stating "electrical work as drawn". If there is no tstat or boiler interconnet wiring shown I figure I can charge extra for it. I normally figure a whole day for one man to wire a boiler, and it is not an apprentice working alone, although I have one 4th year that can do that and I am totally comfortable with his decisions. I never set any appliances unless specifically asked to as a favor or an extra. Whoever is supplying the appliances should be taking care of that and the cost of installation should be allowed for in his contract. Or her contract, sorry ladies. If HO provides the appliances then the gc on the job should be ready to install them. Claiming all the electrical work is certainly proper for licensed contractors but I don't usually pitch a fit about some things. LV wiring, plumbers disconnecting electric water heaters and then rewiring the now one, well drillers (most of whom do not have limited licenses) wiring the submersible pump and dropping it down the hole. And then there is always someone who thinks he knows enough to turn on breakers and cobble some sort of garbage in for himself. That never happens when we are on the job, but quite often there will be something like that when we get there. I suspect that it is because no one likes to use the GFI's we have set up. Always trippin you know. Well enough for now


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## DBack Elec (Nov 30, 2007)

Celtic said:


> What does your contract state?


 My contract states that I am not responsible for HVAC control wiring. A long with other low voltage wiring, but sometimes I will do it if I want to keep the GC.


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## goose134 (Oct 10, 2007)

All of the residential that I've done:
1. We did line to A/C
2. Did line and thermostat to furnace.
3. Provided outlet for micro. (did not hang)


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