# Defective Roof Help!!!!!!



## Guest

My 4 year old roof has two major problems. #1 the roofer nailed every shingle high or above the nail line by 3/8 to 1/2 of an inch. #2 the Celotex 25 Demensional shingles are not sealing. Out of 40 square at least 20 square are flapping in the wind.

Certainteed, who purchased Celotex a few years back and now backs the shingle, told me they would extend 2k to reseal the roof. The roofer says he can renail the whole roof when the weather gets warmer.

During the past few months many sections of my roof have blown off because of the aforementioned problems. The problem being it's hard to match a roof that isn't manufactured any more. The Celotex shingle was discontinued because it was defective I was told.

My hair is falling out just worrying about the roof on my house. Please tell what you think of resealing and renailing a defective roof? Thanks


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## Grumpy

You can seal shingles manually with a special asphalt caulk. The caulk is essentially the same kind of sealer used on the back of the shingles, but in a tube. 

Even if your shingle was still manufacturerd you'd never get a exact color match. It's impossible with granular changes and sun fading. 

In my opinion if the roof was nailed too high that is the roofers fault and should be covered under some kind of workmanship warranty by the roofer. I am suprised certainteed is subsidizing the repairs if the shingles are truly nailed too high. If they had inspected it they would have said human error and gave you nothing.

I'm sorry I couldn't be of any further assistance. Where are you located?


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## Guest

If the shingles have been discontinued there is reason why. In the past three years I've done 5 defective roofs with Certainteed shingles. Each job the homeowner called and called and called Certainteed until they finally broke and gave a substantial amount of money to replace the whole roof. The last job was a hail job three years ago and the roofing company used a 20 year shingle which was discontinued a few years prior to installation. By three years the corner of the tabs were curling badly. The homeowner called at least 10 times to Certainteed until they finally paid for the new shingles (upgrade) and four grand for labor. Each call made to the company the amount whent up from $500 then $1,000 than materials, then $1,000 for labor and finally $4,000 extra. The homeowner still had to pay $2,000 out of there pocket but did get another 10 year warranty added on there old shingles.
My advice would be to get on the phone!!!


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## Grumpy

I'm suprised that they paid labor at all. Most manuf. warranties cover material only, the home owner eats the labor. That is the point of all these "sure start" and "smart choice" warranties the manufacturers sell. Curling corners sounds like ventilation (Over heating).


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## dougger222

The roof had good ventilation as the hail damaged shingles were old with no curling I guess.
Every Certainteed defective roof I've done the've paid a portion of the labor costs. Most roofs have been between 3-7 years old.
There are tons of defective Certainteed Horizon shangles out there (old style three tab fiberglass composit asphalt). The company sais the cracks and pitting is not effecting the life, BS. My father has these shingles and there in very bad shape at 10 years old.

On all defective roofing jobs I've done my bid has come in a couple grand cheaper than the others which are the huge big overhead roofing companies in the cities. This could be why Certainteed is more willing to help out the homeowner with 3 year old shingles that are shot.


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## jmorgan

How is your roofer going to "re-nail" the shingles? Even if warm, many shingles would break when he bends them up. What about the ones that sealed OK? Hand tab the rest? May be cheaper to just tearoff and roof again.
Jim


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## dhaber

*Horizon Shangles*



dougger222 said:


> The roof had good ventilation as the hail damaged shingles were old with no curling I guess.
> Every Certainteed defective roof I've done the've paid a portion of the labor costs. Most roofs have been between 3-7 years old.
> There are tons of defective Certainteed Horizon shangles out there (old style three tab fiberglass composit asphalt). The company sais the cracks and pitting is not effecting the life, BS. My father has these shingles and there in very bad shape at 10 years old.
> 
> On all defective roofing jobs I've done my bid has come in a couple grand cheaper than the others which are the huge big overhead roofing companies in the cities. This could be why Certainteed is more willing to help out the homeowner with 3 year old shingles that are shot.


My house is 12 years old and I was shocked recently when I had work done on the flashings around my skylights and the worker informed me that my roof was in bad shape. Upon investigation I found that I have the Horizon Shangles you mention. I see that the company is stonewalling the bad product. Am I just stuck or do I have a recourse?


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## Grumpy

What do you mean by stonewalling?


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## Teetorbilt

Just curious. Do you have inspections? Here we have a sheathing inspection, dry-in inspection, work in progress inspection and the final. Slows things down a mite but then we can get some serious wind storms (hurricanes).


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## Grumpy

OH boy I hate sheating inspections because the inspectors are always late, and you have 6 guys standing around waiting for an inspector. We choose NOT to work in cities that require multiple inspections because they expect you to tear open the whole roof and wait for them. THis is not something we do. We only tear open as much as we can roof that day. If the job is a 2 day job I don't want my guys on the back side wasting time.


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## Teetorbilt

Grumpy, it's just the way that it is down here. We have State Codes, County Codes and City Codes. It all depends how far away from the coast you are.


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## Grumpy

Ya know what they say... Adapt or get rolled over. Right now we are getting rolled over in various cities we refuse to work in. They are mainly small cities with lower income houses, very small. We are usually too expensive for these areas anyways, BUT these are the cities our competition is using to grow.

I guess when it becomes a problem we will be forced to adpat our system, because the progress inspections are becoming more common. Just recently a rather large suburb right next to us passed a code for progress inspections to prove you installed Ice and Water shield. Well either you wait for them or install your roof and peel up a side of the roof during the final to prove you installed the shield. This is what we had to do twice because nobody at the city hall told us of the new requirements even though we pulled permits for each job.


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## pgriz

Grumpy, just curious - what if you videotaped the process and showed them what was put into place?


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## Grumpy

That's a very good point. I'm not TomHay though. I don't have the resolve to fight a whole building department. 

I think it;s something I would need pre-approval on from an inspector but it is an idea! I think what we will do is if the inspectors are late we will take a bunch of pictures at least, and when they say "show us" I will pull out the pics. Hmmm.. Something to contemplate.


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## dougger222

Here in Minnesota most cities require permits with either a final inspection and or water and ice inspection. To my knowledge no cities including Minneapolis and St. Paul require a sheathing inspection. I did two roofs last year one north of the cities and one south that did not require a permit. I've paid between $25-225 for a permit so far.

Certainteed is trying to take no blame for it's old Horizon line of shingles. I've heard of rumers of class action law suits however. Every roof I've been on with these shingles have shown great cracking, which Certainteed claims is ok. 
If your roof was new construction try contacting the builder to get a hold of the lumber yard. If it was a redo try to get a hold of the contractor to also get the lumber yard. Your salesman at the lumber yard can help you with getting a hold of Certainteed and get you free shingles. You will have to pay for ice and water, felt, and the ridge. It's worth a try. They will try to give you Landmark 30's which is a good shingle.


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## Grumpy

They are not shingles really. They are shangles. Much thicker and manufactured differently. I've never seen a "shangle" that have surface cracks. I think it's normal for the shangle after about 10 years. Also I don't know if the surface cracks will lead to any sort of degredation to the material as a whole.


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## Guest

*certainteed horizon shingles*

Grumpy: i had a roof put on about 10 years ago. at the five yr mark. i filed a complaint with the co. sent them a sample shingle and pix. they issued a five extension. there are more cracks. ie: every shingle is cracked and a lot of curling and i had some blow off recently..after a call last week they are going to treat this situation as an open account.unsettled. i have to repeat the same proceedure as originally did. we both know that any settlement will include their product. do they have a good one? even if i have to upgrade? unless the adjustment is substantial. i will probably use another mfg'rs product. whaT ARE YOU THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS. I have heard of others receivin g vouchers for all of the material to replace the roof. thanks, tom [email protected]


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## Guest

Unregistered said:


> Grumpy: i had a roof put on about 10 years ago. at the five yr mark. i filed a complaint with the co. sent them a sample shingle and pix. they issued a five extension. there are more cracks. ie: every shingle is cracked and a lot of curling and i had some blow off recently..after a call last week they are going to treat this situation as an open account.unsettled. i have to repeat the same proceedure as originally did. we both know that any settlement will include their product. do they have a good one? even if i have to upgrade? unless the adjustment is substantial. i will probably use another mfg'rs product. whaT ARE YOU THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS. I have heard of others receivin g vouchers for all of the material to replace the roof. thanks, tom


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## Grumpy

Certianteed makes a good product. I don't use it for various reasons but that has nothing to do with the quality of their shingles. I think their 30-year architectural shingles (landmark) were recently rated by consumer reports at the top of the list.


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## Guest

*Certainteed Lawsuit Info*

I've heard from several different sources now that Certainteed had a class action lawsuit against it for the defective Horizon shingles. I have had several of my homeowners who have this shingle on their roof request information on the specifics of this lawsuit. I have had no luck finding any real details. Could someone point out where I could get this information?

M.L.


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## Grumpy

I'm not sure if the law suit is active yet or still threats. I've heard rumors but no hard facts. 

Doing a web search I cam up with various info about certianteed lawsuits but nothing about the horizon lawsuit.


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## dougger222

I've heard that there should be a class action law suit against them but no really hard facts like Grumpy mentioned.
I tore of one 9 year old roof last year with Horizon shangles, bid another but the home was sold. My father put Horizons on his roof 10 years ago and there shot. To date I've yet to see a Horizon shingled roof in good condition, all have cracks and blisters. Here in Minnesota were there is a Certainteed plant, there are tons of roofs with these shingles. 

If there is a class action law suit and the roofs will be replaced by Certainteed I know I'll be busy!

If the law suit does find Certainteed at fualt and they have to replace the roofs they will only have to pay about 60% of the total cost due to depreciation. I think if they loose you can just consider them Elk shingles, bancrupt!


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## Grumpy

I've never seen the blisters but the cracks are common among all the cert. shangles. The shangles are so thick I don't really know if the cracks make a huge difference other than cosmetic. Nobody warrants cosmetics, do they?

Elk is bankrupt?


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## Guest

*Certainteed Horizon shingle problems*



dhaber said:


> My house is 12 years old and I was shocked recently when I had work done on the flashings around my skylights and the worker informed me that my roof was in bad shape. Upon investigation I found that I have the Horizon Shangles you mention. I see that the company is stonewalling the bad product. Am I just stuck or do I have a recourse?


We have been calling Certainteed for two years about these terrible shingles. They aren't even offering to pay for 1/6 of the new roof. I've had three different roofers tell me that I need to reroof right away or suffer further damage. I wasn't planning on a new roof for at least 10-15 more years. All three roofers say there were some really bad years with these Certainteed Horizon shingles (1993 was one of those years). Hasn't anyone started a class action against Certainteed? Has anyone tried small claims court? bt


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## Guest

*horizon shingles*

I too have Horizon shingles early 90s. At 12 years they are falling off the house. They ( Certainteed ) are not cooperative at all.

Looking for help

rabrown


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## Grumpy

There is rumor of a class action law suit. I don't have details but you may be able to find that info if you do some google searches.

Other than that... The squeeky wheel gets the grease. Call every week until they agree to fix the problem or give you a definitive reason why they won't fix the problem.


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## randy hall

I have 350 square of celotex/certainteed shingles on our church that keep blowing off. The shingle is a 25 year demensional autumn blend, number 46949 01178 3 if anyone has these same shingles please contact me. Thanks!


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## randy hall

*defective certainteed shingles*



randy hall said:


> I have 350 square of celotex/certainteed shingles on our church that keep blowing off. The shingle is a 25 year demensional autumn blend, number 46949 01178 3 if anyone has these same shingles please contact me. they can't keep getting away with this.


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## Guest

*Horizon Shangle-more bad news*

I have a 25 year Horizon Shangle roof installed in 1993. Granules are gone, color is gone, cracking, curling. Looks like junk. Not leaking yet. I think small claims is a good idea. If they have to start dealing with us as individuals, maybe they will own up to their bad product.


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## Guest

Mlohnes said:


> I've heard from several different sources now that Certainteed had a class action lawsuit against it for the defective Horizon shingles. I have had several of my homeowners who have this shingle on their roof request information on the specifics of this lawsuit. I have had no luck finding any real details. Could someone point out where I could get this information?
> 
> M.L.



I am experiencing troubles with my CertainTeed Shingles which was installed only a few years ago. I also heard of such a lawsuit, but can't find any further information. Have you received any information yet? If so, could you please share the same information with me? My email is [email protected]. Thank you! 

T.P


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## Guest

It appears that lots of people with CertainTeed Shingle problems are looking for a lawsuit, but can't find any further information. Probably, there isn't any lawsuit, since all of us are just looking to find an existing one. Has anyone, reading these postings actually talked with a lawer about a possible law suit againest CertainTeed? If yes, please share the information.

I have problems similar to what people have listed here, the company pointed their finger at the transferability clause, stating warranty is not transferrable for subsequent owners, althougth the shingles are 30 year warranty. In that case, I say, they can simply start calling their shingles as 100 or 1000 year warranty, because most of the home owners move within 7-8 years and once the original homeowner moves, they don't have to pay a dime to subsequent owners facing roof problems. 

I would like to see more and more postings here, so we all get a good handle on number of people having to deal with these problems on individual basis. If the number is quite large, we might have a class action law suit againest Certainteed !!!!

Thanks,
UN-Certain in MN


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## Grumpy

There are lifetime warranties for this very same reason. There are so many exit clauses that your going to break one or two within a 50 year period that they have their hind sides covered.


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## Guest

*Irritated Iowan*

In the last week I heard about the Horizon shangle problem from a friend. I checked at what we put on in 1992 when we built and guess what? Horizon shangles! They are curling, cracked, and have severe grain loss. In just with several neighbors and co-workers I've identified another 4 homeowners with the same problem in one week.

I am going to start the claim process with Certainteed and then contact my attorney for advice. If anyone discovers a lawsuit in process please post the information.


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## Guest

I am in the process of dealing with certainteed. They made a small offer to settle the claim which I will not accept. The most rediculous part of this so far, If I accept their offer I have to sign a release that says that the shangles are not defective and I would be legally bound to not discuss my roof problems with anyone. This is rediculous, the shingles are defective and they should be made to admit it. I am for certain Teed off.

Spread the word, maybe together we can get these slimey devils.

rabrown


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## Guest

I have a 12 year old Horizon shinlge on my home. It has the same cracking that all of you are experiencing. From what I understand as long as the cracking is not going through the shingle it will not leak. I agree it doesn't look that great, but I haven't had any leaking issues. I did find this link to certainteed's website that explained this pretty well. 

Ihttp://www.certainteed.com/NR/rdonlyres/5416D259-EA40-4AB9-A0D3-79FDE97F0987/0/20_20_1430.pdf


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## Guest

*Minnesota*

I have 30 year Horizon shingles that are 10 years old. They are cracking and curling. I have good ventilation so that can't be used as an excuse. I plan to contact a company rep. I understand they will come out and look to verify the problem. My guess is they will agree to settle for the prorated cost of the shingle but, I would hope they would also include the prorated amount for labor. Will keep you updated on any progress or lack thereof. Anyone else have any luck or news?

Minnesota


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## Grumpy

LOL they aren't likley to pay for the labor. It's not covered in any standard shingle warranty I know of. Many roofers do sell upgraded shingle warranties but You'd know if you had one.


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## Guest

*Minnesota*

You are probably right Grumpy. From your experience, would they pay the prorated portion of the original cost of the shingle or todays cost for the same shingle? Thanks from Minnesota.


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## Guest

*Horizon Shingle Problem*

Wow!! I didn't expect to find that many others with problems when I got online to research my Horizon Certainteed shingle problem. I had the dimensional shingles in the dark charcoal gray installed 8 years ago. I've had 2 leaks around the stink pipes. Shingles have also blown loose 3 times over the past 8 years! The nail heads are popping through the shingles and I first noticed them curling up about 4 years ago. I'm at a loss for what to do. Has anyone succeeded with a law suit? Is it justified to instead sue the contractor that installed the roof. I now know that my contractor discovered this problem a while back but didn't say anything to me the first 2 times shingles blew off the roof.


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## Grumpy

That last post sounds more like installation error than anything else.


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## Guest

*Minnesota*

Grumpy is right. This is not a shingle problem. Plumbers are notorious for installing these wrong. I had to fix mine too as it leaked right away.


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## Guest

*Horizon Shingle Problem*

Grumpy, why do you think my roofing job is a result of a contractor problem and not the shingles themselves? Any feedback would help me. Thanks.


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## Guest

*Horizon Shingle Problem*

Grumpy, why do you think my situation is a result of a contractor installation problem and not the shingles. Any feedback would help. Thanks.


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## Grumpy

Unregistered said:


> I've had 2 leaks around the stink pipes. Shingles have also blown loose 3 times over the past 8 years! The nail heads are popping through the shingles and I first noticed them curling up about 4 years ago. I'm at a loss for what to do. Has anyone succeeded with a law suit? Is it justified to instead sue the contractor that installed the roof. I now know that my contractor discovered this problem a while back but didn't say anything to me the first 2 times shingles blew off the roof.


Manufacturer warranty's don't cover leaks. If the roof is leaking chances are good it's your roofer's fault. 

Shingles are blowing loose which could be a manufacturer's problem however it could also be the roofer's fault. If you notice most of the other complaints don't discuss wind damaged shingles. 

Nail heads popping through can easily be the roofer's fault. Either he didn't sink the nails too deep or he may have nailed into rotted wood. It's also possible the wood deteriorated for some reason, at no fault to the roofer. I don't see how this could be the fault of the manufacturer at all. 

Usually curling is a result of poor ventilation, it's the roofer's job to ensure proper ventilation. BUT I understand the main complaint about the certianteed shingles IS the curling so this one too can go either way.


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## Guest

*Minnesota*

My building supplier indicated he too had heard that a lot of people had trouble with the wind on these shingles. Too many to be coincidence or the roofers fault for the most part. Nails coming up would not have anthing to do with the shinge manufacturer.

Curling can come from poor ventilation but it is far too common with these shingles to be the sole cause.


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## Grumpy

Why so many unregistered posters? 

Register damnit!


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## Nathan

this thread is listed #1 if you search on Google for Defective Roof

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Defective+Roof

Thats where all the unregistered people are coming from. 
Its a good thing though! :Thumbs:


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## Guest

The Horizon's are not the only junk Certainteed has on the market. I am a roofing contractor in Iowa. In the past 3 years, I have helped 12-15 people fill out claims on Certainteed's Sealdons and Custom Sealdon three tab asphalt shingles. Same problems as are discussed on the Horizons, and same time period of installation. Needless to say, it has been over 5 years since I have used any of their products. A sad state if affairs for a company that professes to sell a top line product.


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## Grumpy

The sealdons are organic. It's no wonder they fail... they also cost more than the fiberglass shingles. I don't even know whty they make em anymore.

Iowa, like you it's been about 5 years for us also.


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## Specialist

Grumpy try cutting a valley or rake with organics in 95+ degree heat. I've had to hose the roof down to cool them enough to cut. From the bottom to the top of the valley and they had already sealed down.
Grumpy "nailed" the problems. The blowoffs could be staples. I would still be ripping off and banging shingles if I could have torn off only stapled roofs.


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## dougger222

I've been laying 99% Certainteed products for 10 years in MN and have seen tons of problems with the Horizon and New Horizon shingles. In the hundreds of roofs I've done with Sealdon 25's I've never had to tear one off due to curling. Sealdons are decent 25 year shingles but are tough to cut in the sun. My builders have been going with XT 30's and I like the Sealdons better. The XT 30's feel so thin.

Of all the roofs I've tore off my preference would be tearing off roofs that are nailed rather than stapled. Most roofs lately have been newer homes with the thin junky sheathing.


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## Specialist

Dougger, With staples, on numerous occasions I have been able to grasp the first row with the undercourse and walk up the slope pulling the entire rack until the weight got to be too much. Now this doesn't work for stack bonded shingles, but it sure does if they were racked. If they are stack bonded, I would agree with you.


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## Guest

Unregistered said:


> My building supplier indicated he too had heard that a lot of people had trouble with the wind on these shingles. Too many to be coincidence or the roofers fault for the most part. Nails coming up would not have anthing to do with the shinge manufacturer.
> 
> Curling can come from poor ventilation but it is far too common with these shingles to be the sole cause.


My shingles were installed in August of 1999.Since that time my shingles have blown loose 6 times in variuos locations.I have written CertainTeed 4 times.They have agreed to pay me $370.00 to have someone seal my shingles.I refused to settle for this small amount.In my last letter to them July,2004,I requested they send a representative from thier company to inspect my roof.I received their response August 23nd.In their response they reaffirmed their stance,and offered again to pay $370.00 to have my shingles hand sealed.I am planning to write them once more in an effort to settle with them.I am going to take them to small claims court or join a class action lawsuit,if their is one,if this is not settle soon.I live in Warrenton,Missouri.


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## Grumpy

Where is this magic number of $370 coming from? If nobody inspected the roof how do they know 370 is adequate?


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## Mike Finley

I feel for you but keep in mind if you want to take them to small claims court you will have to file in the state and city they reside in. If you join a class action lawsuit the $370 figure is going to seem like a handsome reward compared to the usual payouts to participants of class action lawsuits. If there is one and you win, you most likely will get a check for $3.70.


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## Grumpy

I was in a class action law suit once. I was in it because I didn't opt out. Interesting, I thought you had to opt in... anyways I did get less than $1. I bet the lawyers got millions.


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## Mike Finley

I'll bet they did. Class action suits are typically not going to benefit the people in them monetarially. The lawyers basically feel that they have a blank check for fees. But class action lawsuits do hurt the company that is being sued. So if you want satisfaction, want to teach them a lesson, protect others from them, or just hope to put a bad company out of business, then join the suit. But don't expect to see any kind of real money for your damages.


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## Guest

Mike Finley said:


> I feel for you but keep in mind if you want to take them to small claims court you will have to file in the state and city they reside in. If you join a class action lawsuit the $370 figure is going to seem like a handsome reward compared to the usual payouts to participants of class action lawsuits. If there is one and you win, you most likely will get a check for $3.70.


According to my sources,if it is a business that you are taking to Small Claims Court,you can file in the state and county that you reside in.If it is against an individual,you have to file in the state they reside in.


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## Guest

Grumpy said:


> Where is this magic number of $370 coming from? If nobody inspected the roof how do they know 370 is adequate?


When I first called CertainTeed they asked that I send them 2 sample shingles from my roof along with other information such as the receipt from my contractor which had the size of my roof,and I also sent them photo's.However, I don't believe that I can find anyone in this area to seal my roof for $370.00.


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## Grumpy

Many contractors I know of charge a min of $300 just to go do a simple repair. You have to understand were in this to make money and doing a repair for $50 will quickly put us out of business.

At the same time certianteed's warranty, like most manufacturer's, only covers material and the cost of labor is always on the shoulders of the home owner. If certianteed is willing to foot the bill of $370, that's about 3 squares of shingles give or take shingle type and your region.


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## Kelly1124

:blink: 
OK, I'm freaking out. I just had Certainteed 30 year Landmark shangles put on my roof 4 months ago. The posts I'm reading here seem to be referring only to the Horizons. Has anyone had problems with the Landmarks??? 
Thanks,
Kelly


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## MJW

One of the best shingles on the market, don't worry about them one bit. I use them almost every day.


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## Grumpy

Landmarks are not shangles and are not experiencing much of the problems discussed in this thread regarding shangles. Shangles ar emanufactured differently than shingles and this is what caused alot of the past problems with the shangles. I have no problem selling landmark shingles.


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## Kelly1124

:thumbup: 
Ahhh, thanks!!
Kelly


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## Guest

*How do I know if my shingles are Certainteed?*

I bought my house in '03. The roof was put on in '88 and is now curling up. In fact my homeowners insurance actually dropped me from anything roof related. 

I was told to find out if they are Certainteed brand, because if they are Certainteed would help with the cost of replacing it.

How can I find out if they are Certainteed, and if they are how do I go about getting an estimate from Certainteed?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks


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## thom

Aquaman said:


> I bought my house in '03. The roof was put on in '88 and is now curling up. In fact my homeowners insurance actually dropped me from anything roof related.
> 
> I was told to find out if they are Certainteed brand, because if they are Certainteed would help with the cost of replacing it.
> 
> How can I find out if they are Certainteed, and if they are how do I go about getting an estimate from Certainteed?
> 
> Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks



The shingles were put on 19 years ago and you think the shingles are faulty? If you can get 19 years out of any shingle you've done well. Hire a roofer and put on a new roof.


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## apkole

Thom is dead on with his advice. Your roof shingles aren't defective, they are worn out.

Time to step up as a homeowner and buy a new roof to protect your investment.


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## theroofinggod

a lot of problems i see are cosmetics (fiberglass this area),i`ve seen curling w/other mfgr.s organic shingles,blowing off or high nailing is installer error and not covered,ventilation is important,but it is just as important to have proper insulation so the heat from below doesn`t bake the shingles,horizon,hallmark,carriage house and grand manor are all shangles,but I`ve only seen problems w/HALLMARK(discontinued/I believe),and horizon.horizon is surface cracking where the asphalt is built up similar to alligatoring of the flood coat on a flat roof(when applied too thickly),and most of these also have very poor ventilation,Ihave used a lot of horizon in the past,and have yet to have a complaint w/them properly nailed and installed w/ventilation-but that may be because we only get the fiberglass version here in ny,I will not use an organic shingle,after numerous problems w/IKO years ago curling like potato chips and losing granulation-make sure you get fiberglass shingles for your roofs


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## MJW

If they are fiberglass and too thin, they will crack anyways. GAF and the Cetainteed horizons are the worst.
The newer Timberlines seem to be a little better than they were in the past. Landmarks are still thicker though.


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## RooferJim

Gaf Timberlines do not have the color shading problems that the Certainteed Landmarks do.

RooferJim


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## MJW

Never heard of that Jim.


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## AlumiChuck

*Composition, smomposition*

You can google "Class Action Lawsuit Certainteed, or GAF, or ELK", Take your pick. You might want to add the state that you live in to the search. I believe it involves a brief questionaire. Certainteed dumped A MILLION documents on the attorneys (they have to read them all), so don't hold your breath!

The problem with the shingle, and if you read the report more carefully, Grumpy, CR also says they will only last a decade or so, even the Grand Manor/Lifetime.............hmmmmmmmm. Guess that's what all the class actions are about. 95% paper!!!!!! Certainteed tells you in their own brochure that they are going to curl initially. They have to. It's bad science! 

But, hey, most people are gullable, and don't have the foresight to buy something permanent/can't justify the cost. Otherwise you guys would be out of work, eh? 

Good luck with the Class Action. Aluminum Rocks!:thumbup:


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## MJW

They tried aluminum on siding.


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## dougger222

MJW said:


> They tried aluminum on siding.


And then marble sized hail hit it...

Then they got new aluminum siding.

And then golf ball sized hail hit it...

Then they got new aluminum siding.


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## MJW

It will never be too late. This has been going on for about 5 years now. 

SPAMMER


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## SLSTech

Can we please close this 2004 post, oh and frag the spammer???


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## K&M Guttering

sounds like you need to report these guys ...


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## griz

Hey K&M check the dates on the posts you are fishing through....

this one is a tad old.....

like three day old fish....:laughing:


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## K&M Guttering

I did bro. just kinda getting the feel for it. I got good news for you man... Jesus Loves You....:clap:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne

:blink:






Delta


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## builditguy

I see this come up fairly often. 

I'm on another forum that has a warning that pops up. Something like, "The forum you are about to post is over 120 days old. Are you sure you want to post a response?"

I don't know what's involved in that, but it got my attention when I was going to give someone a reply. I hadn't even noticed the original date.


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