# Might have gotten a little greedy on the last bid.



## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

i dont bid high or low. some jobs are just going to take more work to accomplish which cost more money.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

sitdwnandhngon said:


> The guy emailed me and said my price was nearly double another companies price :blink: I usually come in lower.


 If you're getting all the jobs, you're bidding too low. Stand firm.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Most people have no idea what remodeling costs. They see stuff on tv or internet written by some know it all jackleg who tells them that all contractors are rip off artists. 

When people say "wow thats much higher than I though it would be" I ask them how they arrive at their budget and have they done any remodeling before. 

The answer to budget is "thats how much I have or I dont know or I pulled it out of thin air"

Clients who want a quality job are usually the ones who look right past the "bid" that is 2/3 lower than a professional company. The 2/3 lower guy leaves alot out of the bid, uses homecreepo prices for crap materials etc.. In this economy you will have to see 2x as many people to get the same number of jobs last year while raising your prices. Grocerys, gas, insurance, etc... keep going up not down. 

Remember every time a job took longer or was a PITA, that is the reason to charge more not less. 

I love when I hear "I could it but I dont have the time" yeah or the right tools or the know how or experience....:laughing:


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## artiospainting (Mar 16, 2011)

I just bid a job $1200 I lost it to someone for $1000 was he a low ball er. If he is hes a happy low ball er. Hes sales pitch beat me. In writing are not the customer might of bean listening for a lower price. listening is a key. I was the first bid he might of started listening for a lower price after I left. I can her your disappointment. there's other good jobs out there as long as you keep your price fair to you. hang in there for the more prosperous season you don't know that job mite hang him up for a wile. Not wishing any trouble on him I'm always happy to hear someones 6 mouth scheduled a $10 hr


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

artiospainting said:


> i just bid a job $1200 i lost it to someone for $1000 was he a low ball er. If he is hes a happy low ball er. Hes sales pitch beat me. In writing are not the customer might of bean listening for a lower price. Listening is a key. I was the first bid he might of started listening for a lower price after i left. I can her your disappointment. There's other good jobs out there as long as you keep your price fair to you. Hang in there for the more prosperous season you don't know that job mite hang him up for a wile. Not wishing any trouble on him i'm always happy to hear someones 6 mouth scheduled a $10 hr


uncle!


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

KnottyWoodwork said:


> ... You factor in for the surprises, while the other guy might be operating on the "bid low, then changeorder the he## outta them" method. Their way isn't dishonest, or trying to get something past the HO;



In MY book, that IS dishonest and IS trying to get something past the HO.

We're supposed to be the professionals here. A big part of that is educating your customers about the "tactics" other guys use to take advantage of them.

And then we wonder why HO's are so wary of contractors...............


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## SDel Prete (Jan 8, 2012)

svronthmve said:


> In MY book, that IS dishonest and IS trying to get something past the HO.
> 
> We're supposed to be the professionals here. A big part of that is educating your customers about the "tactics" other guys use to take advantage of them.
> 
> And then we wonder why HO's are so wary of contractors...............


 I'll second that. If your plan is to just get in and change everything later you are just being dishonest from the start.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

There is a company here in Silicon Valley that gets a lot of the large to midsize commercial jobs (mostly fire, security and some electrical). Some years ago I worked with a lot of the engineers and techs that used to work for this firm, and, from my own presence in the industry, I know various things about them too.

The point is, this company has been around for a while, and some years ago both of their owners said (this has been quoted by several people): "We make our money from change orders". Which is to say that they bid low, get the job, then through the language in their contracts, are legally able to change order things up to get their profit. 

Two weeks ago I lost a bid on some residential electrical for a hot tub/spa. This involved cutting open and replacing drywall, 50 ft of EMT in the garage (plus bends), outdoor J-boxes, another 60ft of trench and conduit to the Spa shut off/GFCI Box, then another 20ft to the Spa access and motor compartment. All of this with #6 awg THHN, new breaker in panel, etc. 

My bid was $2200.00 with materials, labor, tax. The materials alone were $900.00 my cost. The HO went with a guy who quoted $1000.00 for everything (materials, labor and tax).


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

cwatbay said:


> My bid was $2200.00 with materials, labor, tax. The materials alone were $900.00 my cost. The HO went with a guy who quoted $1000.00 for everything (materials, labor and tax).


If he wants to do all that work for $100 dollars, let him. You didn't want that kind of customer anyway.

Or, perhaps you didn't do a good enough job educating them on the value-added of your price.....


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

cwatbay said:


> There is a company here in Silicon Valley that gets a lot of the large to midsize commercial jobs (mostly fire, security and some electrical). Some years ago I worked with a lot of the engineers and techs that used to work for this firm, and, from my own presence in the industry, I know various things about them too.
> 
> The point is, this company has been around for a while, and some years ago both of their owners said (this has been quoted by several people): "We make our money from change orders". Which is to say that they bid low, get the job, then through the language in their contracts, are legally able to change order things up to get their profit.


Just guessing, but I'd venture that your & their reputations in the community are worlds apart. 

And I'd also guess, I'd rather have yours, than theirs!


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

svronthmve said:


> If he wants to do all that work for $100 dollars, let him. You didn't want that kind of customer anyway.
> 
> Or, perhaps you didn't do a good enough job educating them on the value-added of your price.....


You know, I never talked to the HO. This was a sub-contracted job through a Landscape Contractor. So far I am zip for 3. Apparently his clients are "kinda" on the cheap side ( except for his pricing).


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

cwatbay said:


> You know, I never talked to the HO. This was a sub-contracted job through a Landscape Contractor. So far I am zip for 3. Apparently his clients are "kinda" on the cheap side ( except for his pricing).


I've recently been dealing with a GC myself who I've submitted a number of bids for. Spent ALOT of hrs handholding & educating his customers. I've gotten 1 out of 6 from him. My bad! Time for me to be putting my energies elsewhere....

'Ya gotta know when to hold 'em,know when to fold them. Know when to walk away.....know when to RUN.....



I feel your pain brother!


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## DBBII (Aug 28, 2008)

A friend asked me to turn in a government bid for him last week. Since they were opened publicly, he mostly wanted to know where he stood in his pricing/estimating. 12 bidders.

Low 66,375
High 210,000

2nd guy was 88,880.

Some people are nuts!!


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## jimmys (May 1, 2009)

Don't know about elsewhere, but in Mass. here a municipality is REQUIRED to hire the low creditable bidder. Practically guarantees that bidder will try to jack the job up with COs. I know there are guys who work faster for less $$ than others, and are legit. Still, you are usually paying for what you are getting, one way or another.
Jim


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

i remember when i worked at the last company i worked for we had a mechanical system bid come in a good bit lower than the other 2. we had the apparent low bid meeting and went over it. first, the guy the company sent was a moron. the didnt know what half the stuff in the specs were.
2nd they left out a bunch of stuff cause they didnt understand the specs.

the next company had everything included and even knew what they were talking about. 

guess who got the job after the meeting?
if we just went blindly with the numbers like most home owners do i do believe we would have lost on that job in the end.
the lowest bid isnt always less money


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

jimmys said:


> REQUIRED to hire the low *creditable* bidder.


they can throw out bids that doesnt include a whole scope of work.

the old saying in large commercial construction:
"Congrats, your the low bidder"
contractor: crap, what did i forget?


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

I have yet to send a follow up to this guy. I'm having a tough time wording it correctly.

He contacted me via email since he is out of the state right now. The house was what I assume is a rental property because in the area most of them are (high dollar rentals though, very nice old houses).


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## JRSeifert (Apr 22, 2010)

It's pretty easy to get sucked into wanting the job so badly you adjust to beat some "competitor." The thing is, you start to forget that it's competition for your livelihood, that is, until you've gotten the job and now have to face the prospect of working for less than you're worth.

I did that this past summer. We built a really nice 32' x 60' workshop for a customer. Stick framed, hydronic in floor heat, hardi board siding and arch shingles, over insulated and completely drywalled inside. For a workshop it was pretty lavish. Basically I was told that another company was WAY below us, but that the HO liked us better and would give us the job if we could get below a certain number.

I wheedled around with my subs and suppliers and chopped my own numbers, and we got it, but for thousands of dollars less than originally bid. 

Dug the foundation and it rained for weeks, delaying us. When we finally got going on it, things went smoothly. Made good time. Customer was super easy going, and paid promptly at each draw.

When all was said and done, I did the post production number crunch, and guess what? My original price would have been perfect for the amount of time we had in. Thinking back on it, I can say that at least we made something and kept busy during that time. However, if there had been other delays and mistakes, or the HO had been unreasonable or failed to pay on time (all strong possibilities in this business), I would have run out of wiggle room really fast.

Looking at the amount of personal salary money I was able to take on that job, I just shook my head and chalked it up as a lesson. Our workmanship and management was top notch on that one, and I knew we deserved better. 

If I had it to do over again, despite the success of the project, I would have told the HO to go with the other guy. Since it's said and done though, I've decided to be happy we did the job and am hoping to get good word of mouth out of it, with the idea being that we stick to our initial price from now on.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

JR, I've been there before.

I'm on one now. Should have been a slam dunk, but it has been dragging on. It happens sometimes.

I'm not losing money............but it's keeping me from making more!


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I don't even bid jobs low or high on purpose, but if there isn't much work coming down the pipe I'll take some wiring work or other low-margin work just to keep busy.

As for the sitting at home eating PB&J or working and eating PB&J...I think I'd still rather be working...better for mental health at least.


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## tbz (Dec 27, 2011)

JRSeifert said:


> It's pretty easy to get sucked into wanting the job so badly you adjust to beat some "competitor." The thing is, you start to forget that it's competition for your livelihood, that is, until you've gotten the job and now have to face the prospect of working for less than you're worth.
> 
> I did that this past summer. We built a really nice 32' x 60' workshop for a customer. Stick framed, hydronic in floor heat, hardi board siding and arch shingles, over insulated and completely drywalled inside. For a workshop it was pretty lavish. Basically I was told that another company was WAY below us, but that the HO liked us better and would give us the job if we could get below a certain number.
> 
> ...


As noted by others the best profit You make sometimes is when you pass on a project that costs you more than you would have been paid.

JR, chalk it up to advertising some projects you take for the exsposure some for the future projects and then some by mistake. But I would rather walk unless we make the margins, but as long as you did it in the black and did not miss more profitable work, I tend to just call it education, and as many know education cost money.


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## Real World (Jan 28, 2012)

You're darn lucky the customer fired you. You should have fired them from the get go.

Unless you actually see the bids, the other contractors insurance, workmens comp, product quality, quality of construction, etc... then you AIN"T double.

*If I were you I would seriously consider subcontracting with the idiot who took that job. * If he can do the work for less than half of what you can bid, you'll Double your jobs and Double your profit.

Real World


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

griz said:


> or as greg says....
> 
> *"I never lost a cent on a job I didn't get"​*


you beat me to it


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