# Help with Dishwasher install



## totes (Oct 17, 2013)

Is is preferred to have the face of a regular style DW flush with the face of the cab, or the frame of the dw flush with the face frame of the cabinet? The side strips work either way.


----------



## totes (Oct 17, 2013)

Well, I haven't gotten any responses so I will try again with pics.
Do you like it like this or that? I've been doing cab door front DW's so I want to make everything flush....But I think with a metal front door it is supposed to sticks out, yes?


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

I usually put the front of the door flush with the front of the door/drawer fronts.


----------



## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

My vote is picture #1

#2 is what a home owner would do.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Never interrupt the plane of the cabinet faces if you can avoid it.


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

OH! I thought DW meant Drywall so I didn't chime in since I didn't know what you were asking.

I usually mount the dishwasher so the door in in the same plane as the finished doors and drawers....so a little bit out from the back wall.

No reason for this other than I think it looks better.

Edit, I'll change the title of the thread so it's more clear.


----------



## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

totes said:


> Well, I haven't gotten any responses so I will try again with pics.
> Do you like it like this or that? I've been doing cab door front DW's so I want to make everything flush....But I think with a metal front door it is supposed to sticks out, yes?


Number 2 will exceed the countertop overhang


----------



## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

I do between 1 - 3 DWs a week, and whenever possible I make the main plane of the door flush with the cabinet doors/drawers. Sometimes it's not possible though. There is an ideal, which your pic #1 is, and then there's what happens in the real world when your swapping a dishwasher in an existing house. I've had several times that I've had to use a small saw and take material out above the DW because even with the DW as low as it would go, and even though I just took a DW out of the hole, the new DW won't go in.


----------



## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

#1 is better, but sometimes you will have a dishwasher with controls on the top and a big counter overhang and #2 will be preferred by the customer. Had it happen once before.


----------



## KermieB (Jul 27, 2012)

The install really depends on the dishwasher. I wouldn't even try to answer this question without pictures of the top of the door. Why? Because several models have the controls on top of the door instead of on the face.


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I prefer #1 but I've had issues with clearance at the top and/or sides or I didn't have anything to screw the DW to underside of the countertop and had no choice but to bring them out further.


----------



## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

Flush with the cabinets, but the countertop must cover the handle.


----------



## Walraven (Jan 24, 2014)

pic number one for sure


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

So it is safe to say ''Depends''. :whistling


----------



## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

If you have a quartz or marble top, you will have to set the dishwasher so the side clips line up with the frame of the cabinet.
Some of the dishwashers have plastic strips on the sides, that get screws through them. Those also have to be lined up with the frame of the cabinet. Even if screws don't go through the plastic strips, they are put in for sound dampening. This may determine how far back it has to be pushed.


----------



## totes (Oct 17, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. Dishes are washing, check is cashed and spent.
Went with #1. I was in a hurry to get it dialed in before the slab arrived, way easier that way. Also had to snake plumbing through toekick, pita!

The DW was a Bloomberg, poor man's bosch. Very nice machine! One of the side strips had a kink, and they 2 day FedEx 'ed me a new one...so I like this company. 
Front controls, but all the top controls I have seen don't need access when closed. (press setting and start, the close door.)

Has anyone direct drained a Dw in a residential? Seems like it would be the way to go if I had to do this again.


----------



## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

I've had to drop through a floor and catch the drain from the kitchen sink before. Put a p trap into a y and put a barb fitting on the p trap.


----------



## dcr00k (Aug 23, 2014)

Ideally, push it back until it is flush with the drawer/door fronts. With top controls, it needs to be far enough out so that the controls are accessible with the countertop in place. That will vary a bit. Coordinate with your subs.


----------



## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

I have done hundreds of DW when I was an installer for Blowes. #1 is the proper way IMO. On good days I could easily install 5, but had 1 that took 5 hours, when you're day is scheduled tight it is a HUGE PITA to call everyone to reschedule because the old lady that was first in the morning had a really old house, with all custom built kitchen that was over 100 years old. Old enough that there were no standard heights for counters, it was 32" tall not normal 36". Had to cut framing, legs off and really mess around to get it to fit.

In the end, got it and I won but dang it was horrible!

BTW, don't you just love the old shut offs that leak the moment you touch then? Got a supply of most sizes and shapes in trailer just in case.


----------



## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

If the controls are on the top of the door I still like it flush with drawers. What I found on most models is that you can turn it on with the door open select settings you want and the water won't start till you close the door. So it not always needing to stand out if controls up on top


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

brhokel606 said:


> I have done hundreds of DW when I was an installer for Blowes. #1 is the proper way IMO. On good days I could easily install 5, but had 1 that took 5 hours, when you're day is scheduled tight it is a HUGE PITA to call everyone to reschedule because the old lady that was first in the morning had a really old house, with all custom built kitchen that was over 100 years old. Old enough that there were no standard heights for counters, it was 32" tall not normal 36". Had to cut framing, legs off and really mess around to get it to fit.
> 
> In the end, got it and I won but dang it was horrible!
> 
> BTW, don't you just love the old shut offs that leak the moment you touch then? Got a supply of most sizes and shapes in trailer just in case.


I thought they just walked back out the door when they ran into funky stuff like that. Is that just the case when they don't have a standard 3/8 connection on the supply (at least that's what they do around here)? Some of their installations seem to require an outlet in the cab for the DW, as well. Are these guys just pulling BS to get out of there?


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Unger.const said:


> If the controls are on the top of the door I still like it flush with drawers. What I found on most models is that you can turn it on with the door open select settings you want and the water won't start till you close the door. So it not always needing to stand out if controls up on top


I've never seen a DW with top controls that didn't function this way. If a DW had to be set further out than the counter top to function that would be ridiculous. 

I witnessed a customer starting his DW with a butter knife while the door was closed once (not a DW or kitchen I did) because the controls were concealed by the counter like they are supposed to be. I had to show him that you select your wash setting first, press start and just close the door.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

builditguy said:


> If you have a quartz or marble top, you will have to set the dishwasher so the side clips line up with the frame of the cabinet.
> Some of the dishwashers have plastic strips on the sides, that get screws through them. Those also have to be lined up with the frame of the cabinet. Even if screws don't go through the plastic strips, they are put in for sound dampening. This may determine how far back it has to be pushed.


There is a bracket that bridges the opening between cabinets under a stone top that allows you to fasten the top DW brackets into it. Much better alternative to being stuck with side screwing. Although, if you are stuck using the screw through frame method, you can block out the box of the cabinet to be flush with the frame in the section where the screws go so you can push it back as far as needed.


----------



## Royal (Sep 7, 2014)

its preference I like mine face flush


----------



## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

MarkJames said:


> I thought they just walked back out the door when they ran into funky stuff like that. Is that just the case when they don't have a standard 3/8 connection on the supply (at least that's what they do around here)? Some of their installations seem to require an outlet in the cab for the DW, as well. Are these guys just pulling BS to get out of there?


According to Blowes, they are not to fix on install. You must contact install office, get ok, customer has to go to the store, buy the necessary parts and pay for any additional labor. Then reschedule install. 

Time is money to me, I always carries extra plumbing parts, I rarely had an install that didn't have a bad shut off or improper hook up for stainless steel line. Most of the time the pArts are cheap, so i would just do it to get to next job and have a happy customer. Technically I should not have but they make it way to much of a pain and why not just get it done? 

With electrical, if it was hard wired, I would just hook back up. Never had an install that required a new outlet and that would against code here anyway.


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

brhokel606 said:


> With electrical, if it was hard wired, I would just hook back up. Never had an install that required a new outlet and that would against code here anyway.


Have you run into the newer electrical hook up that many of the manufacturers are switching to. No more standard whip to the right side underneath as it was forever with these new ones. They supply a plastic junction box that will not fit behind the dishwasher and must be hard wired or plugged into an outlet inside the sink base (or outside of the dishwasher cavity)

Keep an eye out for this crap guys. Why they just can't ever leave things alone I will never understand.


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Have you run into the newer electrical hook up that many of the manufacturers are switching to. No more standard whip to the right side underneath as it was forever with these new ones. They supply a plastic junction box that will not fit behind the dishwasher and must be hard wired or plugged into an outlet inside the sink base (or outside of the dishwasher cavity) Keep an eye out for this crap guys. Why they just can't ever leave things alone I will never understand.


 that's because of code, they want a shut off point that's accessible


----------



## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

rselectric1 said:


> Have you run into the newer electrical hook up that many of the manufacturers are switching to. No more standard whip to the right side underneath as it was forever with these new ones. They supply a plastic junction box that will not fit behind the dishwasher and must be hard wired or plugged into an outlet inside the sink base (or outside of the dishwasher cavity)
> 
> Keep an eye out for this crap guys. Why they just can't ever leave things alone I will never understand.


I stopped installing just about 3 years ago, higher end models were just starting to come with them.


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> that's because of code, they want a shut off point that's accessible


Ummm, you sure about that? If so, let's have some links.

I'ts not an NEC requirement, but some local amendments want a switch or disconnect in sight of certain additional appliances just like they have for years on other things. That's all good with me too.

But when a homeowners dishwasher dies, and they go buy a new one, they might be in for more than they bargained for when it doesn't accept the typical grounded whip directly to the unit that we have done for years. I doubt the manufacturers care one bit about code when changing designs of their offerings, as long as they can get a UL listing.

The unanticipated results of this new set up is that DIY'ers and many handymen just wire nut some exposed wire (regardless of size) to the old whip and screw them down to the provided junction box. Now THAT"S dangerous.

I see it all the time.


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Ummm, you sure about that? If so, let's have some links. I'ts not an NEC requirement, but some local amendments want a switch or disconnect in sight of certain additional appliances just like they have for years on other things. That's all good with me too. But when a homeowners dishwasher dies, and they go buy a new one, they might be in for more than they bargained for when it doesn't accept the typical grounded whip directly to the unit that we have done for years. I doubt the manufacturers care one bit about code when changing designs of their offerings, as long as they can get a UL listing. The unanticipated results of this new set up is that DIY'ers and many handymen just wire nut some exposed wire (regardless of size) to the old whip and screw them down to the provided junction box. Now THAT"S dangerous. I see it all the time.


Maybe it's just a local code here, but I know we have to.


----------



## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I had an inspector tell me that I had to move a dishwasher receptacle because cords are not allowed to run through walls. Sides of cabinets are the walls of the cabinet. Thinking about it the disconnect would not be in clear view in the cabinet, you'd also have to label the disconnect.

Tom


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

tjbnwi said:


> I had an inspector tell me that I had to move a dishwasher receptacle because cords are not allowed to run through walls. Sides of cabinets are the walls of the cabinet. Thinking about it the disconnect would not be in clear view in the cabinet, you'd also have to label the disconnect. Tom


All hoe they interpret it I guess


----------



## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> All hoe they interpret it I guess


When it comes to the wall, yep. In clear view/sight is a little more iffy when the receptacle is in a closed cabinet.

Tom


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> Sides of cabinets are the walls of the cabinet. Thinking about it the disconnect would not be in clear view in the cabinet, you'd also have to label the disconnect.
> 
> Tom


That's complete crap and I would have fought him on that one. Even the most stringent of NEC codes only says that the disconnect must be IN SIGHT of the appliance. I suppose you cant see the dishwasher if you are underneath the sink base so maybe he's right.:blink:

I guess we all need go grow longer arms.


----------



## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

I have installed 2 of the high end Bosch units with the separate junction box, but haven't had any problems with getting the DW to fit in the hole with it. Also, that box does not provide any kind of disconnect or switch, so it would not be necessary to move it out of the DW cavity.


----------



## kray (Sep 22, 2014)

I just had an inspection in pa. I installed a new s.s. kitchenaid architect 2. It had a plastic junction box that I tied into a gfci in the sink base. That was the first time I installed one to a plug. I also had to tie the disposal into another gFCI on the other side of the base on its own leg but this was activated with a push button I put in the soap hole of the sink that was activated by air. Its a first for me also. Turned out really nice


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

I installed one of the upper 800 Series models in my own home. The difference between the top Bosch DWs and other brands is night and day. You aren't fighting with junky leg adjustments, awkward connections and insulation wraps that pull off because they are an afterthought draped over a cheap appliance. The unit and it's electrical and water connections are well thought out.


----------

