# Why does this stuff happen to me



## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

A local flooring shop brought me in to pull & replace a toilet for their sheet vinyl job. They layered over the existing floor which was installed around the toilet, not under it. Obviously, this created a recess when the toilet was removed. 

I went back to install the toilet today and found that they didn't patch the floor. They left a hollow spot under their underlayment. There is 3/4" airspace to the subfloor. There is no closet flange existing, lead was brought up to the subfloor and toilet was lagged to the wood. 

How would you handle this? There was no collaboration for either one of us to fix the floor elevation, however, I assumed their installers were competent enough to know luan is not a structural panel and should not be installed over a hollow cavity. I was brought in for plumbing work, not subfloor repair.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Why Does This Stuff Happen To Me....

Because you troll the waters that those fish swim in....

There are flange extensions...

Good time to quit responding to this type of customer if you want to upgrade....


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

First time I've worked for this guy. I was going to start subbing carpet/vinyl to him. He's had his shop 20 years and haven't heard much good or bad about him. His installer did well on carpet that I brought him in on. 

On this job I undercut some doors and the toilet replacement. 

As much as I wouldn't want to use the extension flange, the glaring issue is the entire area under the toilet is hollow. I know it would fail. 

I will likely place the toilet in position, trace the outline, cut out the underlayment they installed, fill the void with plywood, then set the flange/toilet. 

I contracted directly with the client, not the flooring company. I can't drag her through the mud, nor do I feel justified in charging her more because the floor installers took a short cut. I will do a small upcharge, but it's not her fault and I really don't have recourse on the installer. 


On a side note, the hole job was sloppy.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Why wouldn't you feel justified charging the client? Either you charge to fix it or they come back and fix it.

It's bad enough fixing hack work, doing it for free is like saying it's okay and it's not.


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

She just paid to have the floors done. It's not her liability to pay me to fix the hack work... It should have been done correctly when installed two days ago. If I were hired by the flooring company, I would demand him to pay, he is liable for his installers. 

I explained the issue to the client, but she really doesn't understand what's going on- she just wants her house back together. 

I hate working for free/discounts and I agree, fixing others work for free is even worse. I just don't want to over complicate the client. 

I emailed pics to the owner of the flooring shop and will see what he says. I'm curious if he will be accepting or outraged by his installers work. I really hope he sees the problem with their installation methods.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

philcav7 said:


> A local flooring shop brought me in to pull & replace a toilet for their sheet vinyl job.





philcav7 said:


> She just paid to have the floors done. It's not her liability to pay me to fix the hack work... It should have been done correctly when installed two days ago. If I were hired by the flooring company, I would demand him to pay, he is liable for his installers.


I'm confused. The flooring guys hired you, but they didn't hire you? 

Whoever the heck hired you is who needs to be billed for the fix. It's pretty much irrelevant whether it was a hack job; your job is to do the install correctly and bill accordingly.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

I'd have a few words with the installers for doing a hack job. Some communication when you removed the toilet could have solved this issue. Bite the bullet do a decent job and learn a lesson. Try to recoupe some money. After all it's not your fault the existing floor was installed inappropriately.


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> I'm confused. The flooring guys hired you, but they didn't hire you?
> 
> Whoever the heck hired you is who needs to be billed for the fix. It's pretty much irrelevant whether it was a hack job; your job is to do the install correctly and bill accordingly.


He forwarded the clients info to me and asked me if I wanted the job. I wrote the estimate and contracted the work. I was not subbed by the flooring company, nothing more than a referral. 

I agree communication may have prevented this, but honestly I didn't think it was something that needed to be discussed. He knew the situation with the old flooring before they started their work. It was not a suprise. 

I don't do resilient surfaces, but I'm sure there's an astm standard and manufacture standards that strictly forbid their work. Even without a toilet involved, it should have been fixed.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

Since you contracted with the HO the hack flooring outfit is out of the loop. This one is all on you. It's not too late. Show the HO the issue and explain ways to resolve it and related costs. In the future do this part before any work is completed.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

My floor guy doesn't do any structural work whatsoever. If he needs a floor fixed, he refers people to me. In my situation, the floor repair is on you. In your case though, it is a miscommunication. Charge a hundred bucks and fix it. Happy customer and you make enough for your time. Especially if you are doing other work as well.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Dr. Berne, deceased, had a few things to say about your post title :whistling

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=berne+wahm&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

It's now taken care of. I cut the flooring back, cut back the previous layer of flooring down the the subfloor and established a firm surface to sit the toilet on. 

There were no structural repairs needed. The floor had two prior layers of underlayment and vinyl, these layers are what created the void beneath the new surface. Remarkable the T&G plank subfloor was intact.


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