# How much time ? Basement finishing



## rbsremodeling

900 sf as you describe would take me 60 days with inspections


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## woodmagman

AtlanticWBConst said:


> Framing: 2-4 days.
> Electrical: 2 days
> Plumbing: 2 days
> Insulation: 1 day
> Inspections: 2-3 days.
> Drywall: 4-5 days (Damp area)
> Finish, tile, misc work: 5 days
> Paint: 3 days
> Misc: 1-2days (electrical finish, plumbing finish, misc finish, flooring install)
> 
> 27 days with a 2+ people working
> 
> Add 3 days for additional overage and misc material pick-up = 30 days average for us to complete. So 3 weeks if everything went like clock-work....


I agree if all the subs can come when you need them....concrete repair requires curing if you place tile flooring over it, fireplace, stone work, egress windows, excavating, curing time:clap:that is why square foot priceing does not work.....:laughing:


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## woodmagman

rbsremodeling said:


> 900 sf as you describe would take me 60 days with inspections


 very good average.....you cruz any faster than that and all you do is cover up things that need to be done.:clap:We have three on average going on at one time...been there done that.


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## AtlanticWBConst

woodmagman said:


> I agree if all the subs can come when you need them....concrete repair requires curing if you place tile flooring over it, fireplace, stone work, egress windows, excavating, curing time:clap:that is why square foot priceing does not work.....:laughing:


I actually based that on a ""basic" basement layout with no window egresses, etc....assuming best case scenerio, with zero issues (like those are common :laughing

The other benefit, is that we do everything ourselves (except the Electrical and Plumbing), including concrete and tile = less waiting around for others...


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## rbsremodeling

AtlanticWBConst said:


> I actually based that on a ""basic" basement layout with no window egresses, etc....assuming best case scenerio, with zero issues (like those are common :laughing
> 
> The other benefit, is that we do everything ourselves (except the Electrical and Plumbing), including concrete and tile = less waiting around for others...



I do the same thing all in house most cases except elec, hvac and plumbing and would be at 60 days. if the op is banging out basements in 14 days I must be doing something wrong?? or is it something right?


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## woodmagman

AtlanticWBConst said:


> I actually based that on a ""basic" basement layout with no window egresses, etc....assuming best case scenerio, with zero issues (like those are common :laughing
> 
> The other benefit, is that we do everything ourselves (except the Electrical and Plumbing), including concrete and tile = less waiting around for others...





rbsremodeling said:


> I do the same thing all in house most cases except elec, hvac and plumbing and would be at 60 days. if the op is banging out basements in 14 days I must be doing something wrong?? or is it something right?


 I am the same, it all takes time and the best lessoned learned is not running to just do one, but walking and doing them all..man i love the phase tonight.:w00t:


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## HallisseyDesign

I do basements a lot in IL. We get permits for the home owners that want them and don't for the ones who don't. Are basements are 1000-1500 square foot and normally take around 35-45 days including bathroom, kitchen, movie room. 2 of us full time and one guy who can come 3 days a week. I understand permits are useful in most cases. The addition going on my parents house is all permitted(1200 square foot). In some cases when adding a permit you add almost 20k to a bid that is in IL. For plumbing work and electrical work your lucky to find a guy for less then 50 bucks an hour.

The problem I wish could be solved is testing to get your license in IL you can't do it. You must be a apprentice for x amount of years- well really I can't spend lets say 5 years of being somebody's ***** getting 10 bucks an hour trying to survive in what we do. Cali has it right.


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## rbsremodeling

HallisseyDesign said:


> I do basements a lot in IL. We get permits for the home owners that want them and don't for the ones who don't. Are basements are 1000-1500 square foot and normally take around 35-45 days including bathroom, kitchen, movie room. 2 of us full time and one guy who can come 3 days a week. I understand permits are useful in most cases. The addition going on my parents house is all permitted(1200 square foot). In some cases when adding a permit you add almost 20k to a bid that is in IL. For plumbing work and electrical work your lucky to find a guy for less then 50 bucks an hour.
> 
> The problem I wish could be solved is testing to get your license in IL you can't do it. You must be a apprentice for x amount of years- well really I can't spend lets say 5 years of being somebody's ***** getting 10 bucks an hour trying to survive in what we do. Cali has it right.



Did you reread this before you typed it? are you saying what I think you are saying in regards to permits and Licensed contractors charging a real wage for their work?

I can not say what I really want to say and not get banned from this site but if you are implying what I think you are, I hope you get hit by a bus.

But I mean that in the nicest way:thumbsup:


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## HallisseyDesign

rbsremodeling said:


> Did you reread this before you typed it? are you saying what I think you are saying in regards to permits and Licensed contractors charging a real wage for their work?
> 
> I can not say what I really want to say and not get banned from this site but if you are implying what I think you are, I hope you get hit by a bus.
> 
> But I mean that in the nicest way:thumbsup:


I do charge a far wage. I am licensed and bonded and insured in IL. I charge more then enough to make a good living and not rip peoples lips off. If you feel the need to charge somebody 65 dollars an hour to do things then that is also covering your overhead and congrats to you for having a company with a tall overhead. For me it is a 2 man crew 95 percent of the time. I will put my work verse anybody's. I treat the CO's house like my own if I don't like I will change it on my own dime not there's even if it is politically correct. So when you ask somebody to be hit by a bus next time go **** yourself first. I not once bad mouthed your company or what YOU charge. I wish I could charge what you charge and still get jobs it would be an honor but nobody will pay that here. 

BTW My normal basements run right around 60-70k.


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## woodmagman

HallisseyDesign said:


> I do basements a lot in IL. We get permits for the home owners that want them and don't for the ones who don't.


In order that legitmate contractors stay that way, they need to educate the public that the only ones they are harming is themselves when they do not aquire permits......those contractors that do not do this, risk the chance of allowing themselves to be no better than those they consider unworthy to be contractors. To build without permit is the same as to operate without certification.....


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## HallisseyDesign

woodmagman said:


> In order that legitmate contractors stay that way, they need to educate the public that the only ones they are harming is themselves when they do not aquire permits......those contractors that do not do this, risk the chance of allowing themselves to be no better than those they consider unworthy to be contractors. To build without permit is the same as to operate without certification.....


I tell them all the same thing. A permit checks our work to the specifications of the city we are in. The funny thing is the city is so corrupt along with this state. The union controls most of it. I have no problem with the union except when most of there guys do ****ty work and you can't fight the union. I have no problem pulling permits but home owners do not want to get the price tag to have those guys for the electrical and plumbing come in. MY dad had his general in Cali- He was licensed in Concrete- electrical- plumbing. We came out here and all his work meant nothing, that is bull**** in my book. I warranty my work for 5 years. The only phone calls I get is from a family friend that can;t change a damn light in her kitchen I did 3 years ago. She tried once and broke the clip. So i get the phone call to change it.


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## rbsremodeling

HallisseyDesign said:


> I do charge a far wage. I am licensed and bonded and insured in IL. I charge more then enough to make a good living and not rip peoples lips off. If you feel the need to charge somebody 65 dollars an hour to do things then that is also covering your overhead and congrats to you for having a company with a tall overhead. For me it is a 2 man crew 95 percent of the time. I will put my work verse anybody's. I treat the CO's house like my own if I don't like I will change it on my own dime not there's even if it is politically correct. So when you ask somebody to be hit by a bus next time go **** yourself first. I not once bad mouthed your company or what YOU charge. I wish I could charge what you charge and still get jobs it would be an honor but nobody will pay that here.
> 
> BTW My normal basements run right around 60-70k.


I charge what I charge for everyone to make a fair wage not just myself. An electrician charging 65 bucks an hour is the norm as a matter of fact in my opinion a licensed electrician charging 65 bucks is selling himself short.

Permits are not optional if they are required you pull them. Inspections are not optional they are required as part of the permitting/building process.

No one is charging a fee to rip any one off. We charge our rates to pay for our time, subs time, permitting, inspections etc. 

A homeowner does not decide if they want me to pull a permit. If it is required it is pulled that's that.

I am not bad mouthing you, I am calling you out for thinking permits are not mandatory and for thinking that subs should not charge a fair wage but its ok for you to??

So you treat your Clients house like yours, buy using unlicensed contractors and not pulling permits??

Yeah your a gem.:thumbsup:


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## rotarex

You are sounding a lot like the guys he always goes in to clean up after.

Actually im in the busniess of cleaning up other contractors and so far 3 on my list already, and about 4 more that i know of is down to go, one of them been 20 years in busniess ...dont worry i will post pics of my next basment job, so far on my plate is a reno and a new home construction till then this post is DEAD


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## rbsremodeling

rotarex said:


> You are sounding a lot like the guys he always goes in to clean up after.
> 
> Actually im in the busniess of cleaning up other contractors and so far 3 on my list already, and about 4 more that i know of is down to go, one of them been 20 years in busniess ...dont worry i will post pics of my next basment job, so far on my plate is a reno and a new home construction till then this post is DEAD



Sorry for the rant and hijacking of the post. For some reason this struck a chord with me


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## woodmagman

rotarex said:


> Actually im in the busniess of cleaning up other contractors


 Demolition......


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## Celtic

Somethings never change #*10* #*54 *
:whistling


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## TheBuildingFirm

I hope you are not building that new house without permits!


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## WarnerConstInc.

This is still going, it hurts my head to read some of this crap, you guys know who I am talking to.


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## rotarex

TheBuildingFirm said:


> I hope you are not building that new house without permits!


is it possible to do that in ontario? ill email you if i get away with it, think there is any inspectors driving around the Bayview and Steels area?


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## woodchuck2

I skipped over most of the replies but IMO it would take me at least 7-8 weeks for such a project. Maybe i am slower than most but i know this takes longer than normal construction. If it were me it would be based by time/materials. Hard to foresee any problems or issues.


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## JCAHILL4

*Omg stop!*



rotarex said:


> is it possible to do that in ontario? ill email you if i get away with it, think there is any inspectors driving around the Bayview and Steels area?


This guy is the one who needs to be hit by a bus. YOU MUST GET PERMITS! They are there to protect you and the homeowner! :furious:

If your work starts a fire or a flood what warranty are you standing behind? If your work starts a fire and burns down my 150k house, my wife and kids are inside and the fire spreads next door who do you think I am coming after? Your a hack! 

You're the kind of person Mike Holmes does have to come after and fix. Your asking how fast you can slop someone's basement together and get out of there. If your the GC I would hate to see who your subs are. 

Two words. Bonded and Insured. Please.


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## BHR

rotarex said:


> is it possible to do that in ontario? ill email you if i get away with it, think there is any inspectors driving around the Bayview and Steels area?


If you have a crew of good workers - say 4, you should be able to go from start to finish in about 3 weeks. The important thing is to make the jobs overlap without colliding with one another.

I'm actually surprised that you would take such a brash approach when it comes to the use of permits and the use of non licensed tradesman (re: plumbing/electrical). Even though you are likely capable of doing any of that work, you are courting a chance to be ramjetted if something happened - even 5 years later!

Your concern is not the building dept. it's the insurance industry. Your insurance will not cover you if you do non-licensed work. 

I have been involved in 2 cases where a contractor had done such a thing and 4-5 years later there was flood damage. What happens is the HO's insurance will cover the repair but they end up going down a list looking for irregularities that create liabilities. I.E. The homeowner clearly states that company B had done the reno 4-5 years ago. HO's insurance now go after Company B insurance for the damages incurred. Company B's insurance flags it and either triples your rate or closes your policy. Then good luck getting a new policy from else where unless you have a big bag of money. God forbid if it's an electrical fire resulting in a death, you would face criminal charges - here in ONTARIO

Don't buck the system find ways to work with it :thumbsup:


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## greg24k

woodmagman said:


> Average basement is two months....how do you go from 50 days to 13 by only adding a helper?
> I see you have No doors, trim, floor coverings, shelving...kind of apples and oranges.


I agree with you, especially if the bathroom involved, that is about the right time span to do a real nice job and not having contractors in there jumping like porch monkeys tripping over one another.

I would love to see some pictures of that "*knock off job in 13-18 days (Cough Bullsh||||||||||||T Cough* :no::thumbdown


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## greg24k

JCAHILL4 said:


> *You're the kind of person Mike Holmes does have to come after and fix.* Your asking how fast you can slop someone's basement together and get out of there. If your the GC I would hate to see who your subs are.


What happened to Mike Holmes? Did he screwed up to many places and they canceled the show?


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## jarvis design

I don't do many basement jobs, here in Ontario, but I always get permits. 

Like posted above, if you don't use licensed trades for your plumbing and electrical you could be held liable. 

The Ontario Code requires a licensed plumber anytime you are altering a drain, add or move fixtures, (I'm sure their is a couple more)

For retrofitting, it is a definate "gray" area. If you are simply replacing existing fixtures, you don't require licensing. 

As for electrical, I am not exactly sure what the code says, I use a licensed electrician on EVERY job.

Personally, I think their should be another type of trade designation desinged exclusively for renovations. 

It's like being an architect or an architectural technologist: 
The technologist can design houses and light commerical buildings
The architect can do that and everything else


Anyway, a little off base, I apologize.

Final thought for this post, you are playing with fire, hoping not to get caught. Do yourself and your clients a favour, get permits, use licensed sub-trades, and have some pride in your work


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## WilsonRMDL

The problem is beyond permits in this case, the fact that your going to be doing plumbing/electrical without licensed tradesman brings all liability onto your company, not the HO. Sure, your going to save a ton of money doing it yourself, but what if the house burns down like others have said? leaks, floods, etc. Unless somehow you have an insurance policy that covers you as a builder and a plumber/electrician. If you do pull off a basement in 13 days I'll personally fly you to michigan to take all of my work because thats pretty quick for a good basement renovation. That or you have 24 guys in there working 12 hrs a day


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## singlesource

Celtic said:


> Don't you know?
> Having an extra set of hands reduces the amount of days by at least 0.66.


Or -.66 if you know what i mean.:>


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## bbgcarpentry

*basement*

Hi Im a Toronto carpenter
im doing a 950 sq ft basement 17 x 57 roughly ,needs waterproofing from
inside with 3 windows that need window wells .replace total 5 windows ,8 doors hollow core ,5/8 drywall ceiling,1/2 inch on about 200 linear ft of walls 3 piece shower/washroom.2x2 tile throughout ,reconfigue old electrical as has lots of junction boxes.26 pots to be installled standard number of sockets etc.new steel back door.standard trim through out. paint 3 coats.r12 insulation

ive been quoted 9500 eletrical

23k waterproofing

3k plumbing

Im new to canada and been here 6 years so still learning the pricing game,I came in at 66k with out building in any profit,

Any advice would be greatly apreciated


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## ARI001

BBGCARPENTRY,
Make sure you account for your overhead and profit. Generally speaking The greater the risk on the job the higher the profit margin should be. Overhead should account for taxes, insurance, tools, office supplies, license fees, advertising, etc. in the form of a percentage applied to your yearly gross or anticipated gross. To price the job it is best to use your own company history for similar jobs. If you have not done a particular project there are many pricing guides on the market that can get you in the neighborhood. Make sure you add your profit margin to your subs bids and materials as well. On getting bids from subs unless you have subs you have been working with for awhile get three bids on everything and go with the one in the middle. Even if you have subs you've been working with for awhile its not a bad idea to "check" there bids against other companies on occasion.


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## jarvis design

bbgcarpentry said:


> Hi Im a Toronto carpenter
> im doing a 950 sq ft basement 17 x 57 roughly ,needs waterproofing from
> inside with 3 windows that need window wells .replace total 5 windows ,8 doors hollow core ,5/8 drywall ceiling,1/2 inch on about 200 linear ft of walls 3 piece shower/washroom.2x2 tile throughout ,reconfigue old electrical as has lots of junction boxes.26 pots to be installled standard number of sockets etc.new steel back door.standard trim through out. paint 3 coats.r12 insulation
> 
> ive been quoted 9500 eletrical
> 
> 23k waterproofing
> 
> 3k plumbing
> 
> Im new to canada and been here 6 years so still learning the pricing game,I came in at 66k with out building in any profit,
> 
> Any advice would be greatly apreciated


$9500.00 for electrical??? The project I am currently working on is a basement remodel of approximately the same size. We ripped out all the old wiring in the basement and my electrician installed:

18 pot lights
about 25 receptacles
rough in for outdoor hot tub
new dryer circuit
switches
2 - exhaust fans (I supplied the fans)
new hardwired smoke detectors (including upstairs)
new outdoor light 
plus some misc stuff

My cost will be under $3,000.00. My electrician charges $65.00 an hour.

How did you get to $9500.00??

Also, I am no expert when it comes to waterproofing, but, $23K sounds like a lot for waterproofing.

$3k for plumbing sounds about right

Did you get other prices for the electrical and waterproofing??

My project will probably come in at around $40K when completed - and the customer is supplying all the plumbing fixtures and faucets for the bathroom we are building plus any cabinets and surface mounted lights. He is also looking after painting and carpet ( in the areas we are not tiling)

I will be making a decent profit off this project. 

It does take a while to find good sub-trades that are not going to soak you, but, be persistant!!

and, good luck!!


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## kcremodeling

*Basement Finish*

A basement finish usually takes anywhere from 2-6 weeks. 

www.ctconstruct.com


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