# customers wanting to pay with a credit cards



## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

Just trying to get some feed back on who takes credit cards as form of payment, I've been ask by customers why i wont take a credit cards and always getting calls from credit card companies to buy or lease one of their machines to be able to accept them.
I dont know if anyone knows this our not its going to cost you the business owner to accept them something like 4% plus other fees in banks charges, yes you may pick up more business but then you'll have to raise your rates to cover it,Thanks in advance.

Try to send these jobs over seas


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

I looked into Credit Cards. I will at some point start to take them. I am fortunate to not have lost business by not offering the service. 

I was Quoted around 2.1%. Do you have a Costco in your area? They have a decent program for their Small business services.

If you are a plumber for new construction and upgrades, I think I would avoid the credit cards, you'll just be paying for the general contractors next vacation or something. If your business is mostly service based, you will have an easier time getting paid upon completion if you do take the cards.

If you raise your rates to cover the cost, you'll ultimately make more money, and the credibility that you will get for taking the cards may allow you to charge even more.

One negative on the cards- If a customer disputes a bill, the account that you link to the credit card will have a freeze on that dollar amount for up to 3 months awaiting disposition.

(Tzzzz216 Happy New Year to you too!)


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Not if it's from my bank....heh. I can dispute a charge and have my money back within minutes. 

I still don't accept credit cards, and it hasn't affected my business so far as I can tell. I've only been asked about it a couple times, and when people hear how much it actually costs for me to accept them, they understand why I don't. Maybe in time I'll start to accept them, but it's not on the books for the near future....


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

AAPaint said:


> Not if it's from my bank....heh. I can dispute a charge and have my money back within minutes.
> 
> I still don't accept credit cards, and it hasn't affected my business so far as I can tell. I've only been asked about it a couple times, and when people hear how much it actually costs for me to accept them, they understand why I don't. Maybe in time I'll start to accept them, but it's not on the books for the near future....


We accept Visa, Mastercard 1.69% from Moneris.
The increase in business has been noticeable. You don't know 
what you are missing until you use them.
People do way more work than usual. You can get paid 
over the phone if customer is not there by the end of the job.
Collecting deposits is easier.
What about skipping the trip to the bank? That's worth something.
At the same time you offer a convenience to customers, air miles,
and get the occasional extra job because of that
All that for about $55 for an average $3,000 job 
which is a very small overhead add on.


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## Brian (Jun 9, 2004)

I've accepted credit cards for about 10 years. It has definitely made a difference in getting some jobs. Exactly how many is hard to say. About half of our customers now pay by credit card.

As George Z says, it is a convenience for the customer and allows us to get paid much quicker sometimes. We can close a deal via FAX-- they sign the contract and FAX it back with their credit card info. None of that "the check's in the mail" stuff.

As with every other other business expense, it should be build into you price. As George Z also points out, this is about $55 for a $3K job. Consumers will pay more for additional convenience.

Brian Phillips


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## Flimmer (Dec 1, 2005)

Have a line on your estimate that states the total is a discount, based on cash or check payments only. If the customer uses a credit card there is a 4% increase per payment, this way you offer it as an option. Some people will have no problem with this, because, as like Goerge said some are crazy about air miles.

Flimmer


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## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

Thanks guys alot of good feed back!


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

George Z is correct - many customers like the convienience of using a credit card, along with the air miles or other incentives being offered. It also gives your company a more professional appearance.

When I started accepting cresdit cards last year, I did notice an 
increase in the amount customers spend. I do most smaller jobs and service work, usually only a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. But on some when I do the first and job and they find out I take credit cards, they usually want more work done because they can put it on the card. 

On some proposals, my accepting credit cards was the determining factor on proceeding with the project. Had I not taken them, they were going to wait to do the work until they had the cash. As Brian said, you can take deposits by FAX or over the phone, or payments by phone, and the money is in the account in a couple days. Some mentioned that the customer can always dispute a charge. While true, I for one make sure the customer is satisfied with the work before asking for final payment, just so there isn't a problem. If there is a concern, I take care of it right then and there.

I have several commercial customers that love using credit cards, it makes their accounting process much simpler, and I get paid quicker. They can pay anytime with a credit card, but for a check they have to submit paperwork to the home office and some only cut checks twice a month.

I like Flimmers idea about the price differential for using credit cards, sounds like something that should be looked into.

In my opinion, and at least for me in my business and market, it is well worth the added costs. Mine I think it is $25/month plus 2.6% plus a small transaction fee of 45 cents or something like that. Plus I can take my machine with me and scan the credit card right at the job. Most homeowners will usually allow me to plug into their phone jack to complete the transaction. If they won't, or a phone line is not available, the machine will capture the information for later download. The only drawback with this is you won't get an approval or denial until you get to a phone line. But it is the same risk you are taking when you accept a check from them.

Good luck in whichever way you decide to go!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Wow, lots of good points and information posted on this subject.:thumbup: 

Glad to see some guys are tracking their stuff well enough to be able to make calculated responses in response to this subject.


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## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

*Thanks & Happy New Year*

Thanks again all who replied to all of my posting, what a great web site !!:thumbup: :thumbup: 


Try to send thses jobs over seas!


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

George Z said:


> We accept Visa, Mastercard 1.69% from Moneris.
> The increase in business has been noticeable. You don't know
> what you are missing untill you use them.
> People do way more work than usual. You can get paid
> ...


Believe me, I'm not knockin' it! I will eventually accept them, but the first rates I was hearing were double what you're getting. Shoot....$55 is less than I spend running around dealing with a check anyway.


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## paroofer (Sep 30, 2005)

Flimmer said:


> Have a line on your estimate that states the total is a discount, based on cash or check payments only. If the customer uses a credit card there is a 4% increase per payment, this way you offer it as an option. Some people will have no problem with this, because, as like Goerge said some are crazy about air miles.
> 
> Flimmer


We accept cc's and about half the people use them. One cc company told us it is illegal to offer a "cash discount" because it is essentially the same as charging the consumer for credit card use-a big no-no they say. So, I don't know if this is true or not, but we don't have anything in writing about cash discounts. We will give them if someone asks for it......it's called a "neighborhood or scheduling discount" !


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

Charging a fee for credit card use is against the Visa MC rules. I have never heard of a rule for a cash discount. It would be a gray area that might not be worth using if you do allot of business. Visa/MC can make your life miserable. Why take the chance for a few bucks.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Flimmer said:


> Have a line on your estimate that states the total is a discount, based on cash or check payments only. If the customer uses a credit card there is a 4% increase per payment, this way you offer it as an option. Some people will have no problem with this, because, as like Goerge said some are crazy about air miles.
> 
> Flimmer


Though I see many people do it, I have heard this is illegal to charge a fee to use a credit card. Sure when you say you give a discount for paying by check/cash that's a loop hole but it's really a fine line I don't want to dance on, plus IMO it makes the contractor look less professional.

Mark it up to the bottom line and the customer pays the same regardless of their method of payment. 

I accept credit cards because that's how people like to pay. I accept credit cards because I have lost business because at one point I didn't accept credit cards. If I win one job per year because I do accept credit cards, it's worth every penny.

On the flip side if your customer base isn't interested in credit cards, such as in the case of most new construction, then why bother? It's a business decision that will vary from each contractor's situation.


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## gutrman (Jul 17, 2005)

*PayPal*

Has or does anyone use paypal for taking credit cards? I found that you can use quickbooks with paypal to email invoices to customers and they pay using credit card, debit card, bank account... just by clicking a button on the email. You only pay the max 2.9% or min 1.9% + $.30.... no monthly or hidden fees. What do you guys think?


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

I havent used it but am curious how it goes if you decide to head in that direction.


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## gutrman (Jul 17, 2005)

I think we will begin later this month with it... I will keep you posted.


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## Flimmer (Dec 1, 2005)

I guess some would call it a fee, but I don't see it that way. I have control over how I make a deal with my customers.(My Employers customers actually) I make deals with my customers all the time, for example: My customers will say to me is there any way to get your price down? Which in turn I may say I will take 500.00 off if you are willing to put a larger down payment, like lets say 50% and another 40% at completion of the foundation.
The same goes with my contract stating that I price my projects based on cash/check transactions. I have to wait for payment of a credit card and I charge more for that. You may be right about this being a loop hole but then again I don't make those decisions, yet. If this were my company(I will soon be faced with this decision) I would probably do a little more research of this. 

Flimmer


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## sprinklerguy (Jun 8, 2004)

If you get caught charging to use a visa...you will at the least lose your account w/ your merchant bank....could be worse I am told.

No matter how you word it..if it costs more to use their CC....that is charging for it....

That being said....I bought a 4 wheeler once and they charged me 2% because I was using my card......


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

gutrman said:


> I found that you can use quickbooks with paypal to email invoices to customers and they pay using credit card, debit card, bank account... just by clicking a button on the email. You only pay the max 2.9% or min 1.9% + $.30.... no monthly or hidden fees. What do you guys think?


Where exactly is this button? I am running a test invoice and emailing it to myself and I see no PayPal button.


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## LandscapePro (Dec 31, 2005)

Well It won't be the first time I've been on the "other side of the fence" on something. :innocent: 

I don't take credit cards or debit cards either. It's strictly cash or check. It's been that way for over 30 years both in the landscaping end as well as the retail garden center/ nursery.

The reason I / We don't take 'em is if that is an option, the customer will use a card instead of cash.

The nurserystock suppliers I use offer me a 10% discount when I pay cash instead of check.

Bottom line is I won't lessen my "cash" flow.

Mike
La. landscape Contractor #2576


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## Oregon_Rob (Dec 31, 2005)

sprinklerguy said:


> If you get caught charging to use a visa...you will at the least lose your account w/ your merchant bank....could be worse I am told.


Gas station do it all the time.
We take cards and it has helped our cash flow. At the time of sale, we tell the customer that we will take the deposit when we start and unless they say otherwise, will run the card upon completion. This really helps with the cash flow.
We also found the best rates at Costco.
For anyone not yet set up with credit card companys, don't use the third part card guys why want 4% and make you lease the equipment. They are a big rip off and once you contact them for info, they don't quit calling.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Since 1989 I have had a total of 2 customers that have asked to pay by CC. That was for flyer miles, like _they_ really needed THEM. Most pay by check. A few, in cash.


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## gutrman (Jul 17, 2005)

MinConst said:


> Where exactly is this button? I am running a test invoice and emailing it to myself and I see no PayPal button.



sorry, i have been away so long. finally got back to my comptuer after falling 16 ft off a house cleaning gutters. i am now a walking (hopping) advertisement on why to get gutter protection. luckily that is what i sell. 

anyway, min, did you download paypal to quickbooks. you need a business acct. with paypal to get it i believe. all free from my uderstanding... i have yet to do anything with it yet. just did some research.

let me know if you get it to work. i will have plenty of time to play with it with one foot and one hand.


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## nalandscape (Jan 5, 2006)

The way I understand it, from my research, is that you(or gas stations) can offer a client a discount if they pay with cash, but you can not charge them extra if they use a credit card.


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

gutrman,
I am downloading it as I type will install and see how it works out. I don't know if it will be worth while but it is worth a shot. I have business accounts with PayPal I do quite a bit through them.
Sorry to hear about you fall. Hope you get well.
Thanks

Well I installed it and it didn't work rebooted and it was fine. It doesn't look very refined but it does work.


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## Mully (Jan 6, 2006)

*to CC or not to CC*

I've done a lot of research on this topic, an actually just started taking CC's this month. I looked into paypal and I use quickbooks, I called the staff at paypal and you can add a button on your invoices, send the invoice to the client, at this point they have to open your e-mail, select the paypal button, enter in all the card info. To me this seemed like there were to many variables. What if the client never hits the button? It totally rules out people that are not semi web savy. 
I just opened an accout with Wells Fargo and it's about 2% on the charge, 35 cents for the approval, minium fees for the month is $25.00. To me it seems like more customers have higher credit available than cash flow, taking cards allows them to finance the project, plus they get miles or rewards.

Just my 2 cents


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## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

Mully said:


> I've done a lot of research on this topic, an actually just started taking CC's this month. I looked into paypal and I use quickbooks, I called the staff at paypal and you can add a button on your invoices, send the invoice to the client, at this point they have to open your e-mail, select the paypal button, enter in all the card info. To me this seemed like there were to many variables. What if the client never hits the button? It totally rules out people that are not semi web savy.
> I just opened an accout with Wells Fargo and it's about 2% on the charge, 35 cents for the approval, minium fees for the month is $25.00. To me it seems like more customers have higher credit available than cash flow, taking cards allows them to finance the project, plus they get miles or rewards.
> 
> Just my 2 cents



Mully,
Is that a $25.00 min month fee from the bank if you take c.c or not,and did you have to lease the pin pad as well?
I just got a business c.c offer for services to except c.c the rate is 1.59% plus$0.25 transaction fee and they give you the debit pin pad.


Try to send these jobs overseas!!


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## Farmall (Nov 6, 2005)

*Credit cards*

I have a business account with PayPal (free)

You do not need to have QB software to use it. It has invoice options built in and uses email. You download the PayPal button for Outlook express or Microsoft Outlook to your desktop, you will then run the program and there will be a icon installed inside of OE or MO to add the PayPal button to your email. There is a CC button to PayPal in the email that your customer clicks on to pay with their card, the money is then deposited into your PayPal account, where you can then transfer to your bank account. The format is exactly the same as the PayPal option using QB, other than you would use your invoice from QB instead of the invoice option from PayPal.

They charge 1.9 - 2.9 percent based on volume plus a .30 per transaction fee. Most people will be at the 2.9 plus the .30 fee. There are no monthly fees or any other fees. Kind of nice for people who don't get a lot of CC paying customers. I haven't used the service yet but have had people in the past ask about CC acceptance, so I signed up for future possibilites. On a $1500 job it will cost $43.80 to use the CC option. 

Hope that helps.


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## Mully (Jan 6, 2006)

tzzzz216 said:


> Mully,
> Is that a $25.00 min month fee from the bank if you take c.c or not,and did you have to lease the pin pad as well?
> I just got a business c.c offer for services to except c.c the rate is 1.59% plus$0.25 transaction fee and they give you the debit pin pad.
> 
> ...



Yes I know there are cheaper places on the net or companies, but I am leary of getting bent over when it comes to service. I can call 24 hours a day if I have a problem, the support has been great. When I got my CC machine, it was all set to go - no programming fees or set-up fees, then they called and trained me how to use the machine. We went through every button and every question. After I swipe a card I get the money within 48 hrs. I also received a packet of info to read, and large stickers to display on my truck/trailer. And did I mention it's Wells Fargo, I'm pretty sure they will be in business 10 years from now. I just got a better feeling dealing with a company I know, especially with my money. The other companies may be great and have lower rates but I played it safe. Watch out for hidden fees, setup charges, long contracts, no buy out options. With the lower percentage rates on the charges these companies seemed to have higher set-up /monthly service fees which when everything was said and done didn't seem to save me any money. Just read everything you can before you dive in.


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## Mully (Jan 6, 2006)

*Just an idea*

When you sign up for a merchant account, the company that you sign up with needs access to your bank account to have the ability to transfer funds. Someone said earlier that they can also freeze your account if a charge back occurs, this is true. I would suggest that you have an account just for CC money to come in, and then you can transfer money to your business account from there. Just a safety.


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## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

Mully said:


> When you sign up for a merchant account, the company that you sign up with needs access to your bank account to have the ability to transfer funds. Someone said earlier that they can also freeze your account if a charge back occurs, this is true. I would suggest that you have an account just for CC money to come in, and then you can transfer money to your business account from there. Just a safety.



Thanks Mullly, didn't think about that, them needing access to the bank account, good idea :thumbup: to have a different one just for that purpose.


Try to send thses jobs overseas!!


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## gutrman (Jul 17, 2005)

MinConst said:


> gutrman,
> I am downloading it as I type will install and see how it works out. I don't know if it will be worth while but it is worth a shot. I have business accounts with PayPal I do quite a bit through them.
> Sorry to hear about you fall. Hope you get well.
> Thanks
> ...


min,

being a contractor, would you be ok doing this type of payment *if* you wanted to use credit cards ? the reason i ask is because i am becoming a\distributor of a gutter protection system product and will be dealing with contractors.

thanks for the info and the get well... i will be layed up for at least 2 months.


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## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

gutrman said:


> min,
> 
> being a contractor, would you be ok doing this type of payment *if* you wanted to use credit cards ? the reason i ask is because i am becoming a\distributor of a gutter production system product and will be dealing with contractors.
> 
> thanks for the info and the get well... i will be layed up for at least 2 months.



I wouldn't use it for supplies I would have an in house credit with my supply house.Get well soon!!:thumbup: 

Try to send these jobs overseas!!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Mully said:


> When you sign up for a merchant account, the company that you sign up with needs access to your bank account to have the ability to transfer funds. Someone said earlier that they can also freeze your account if a charge back occurs, this is true. I would suggest that you have an account just for CC money to come in, and then you can transfer money to your business account from there. Just a safety.


hmmm, not exactly... however if you have experienced this first hand then it maybe we have just had separate experiences based on different banks and processing companies.

When you batch your charges the money shortly automatically gets deposited in your commercial bank account (usually your business checking account) when a charge back is started nothing happens to your account, if the charge back gets settled against you the charge back amount will be withdrawn from your account automatically. This is similar to what you are saying but not exactly, I have never experienced a 'freezing' of a checking account, only a withdrawl of what really amounts to their money anyways. If you end up with a higher than industry normal amount of charge backs the processor can demand a reserve to be held say for example $3000.00, they would ask for this money to be sent to them or permission to take it from your account or would withhold it from your batch deposits until the amount is reached in reserve. If you ever part company that reserve is returned to you in whole as long as you settle all fees normally before you leave. Along with a reserve they would also be raising your discount rate along the way costing you more to process based on you being a hire risk then industry averages.


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## Mully (Jan 6, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> hmmm, not exactly... however if you have experienced this first hand then it maybe we have just had separate experiences based on different banks and processing companies.
> 
> When you batch your charges the money shortly automatically gets deposited in your commercial bank account (usually your business checking account) when a charge back is started nothing happens to your account, if the charge back gets settled against you the charge back amount will be withdrawn from your account automatically. This is similar to what you are saying but not exactly, I have never experienced a 'freezing' of a checking account, only a withdrawl of what really amounts to their money anyways. If you end up with a higher than industry normal amount of charge backs the processor can demand a reserve to be held say for example $3000.00, they would ask for this money to be sent to them or permission to take it from your account or would withhold it from your batch deposits until the amount is reached in reserve. If you ever part company that reserve is returned to you in whole as long as you settle all fees normally before you leave. Along with a reserve they would also be raising your discount rate along the way costing you more to process based on you being a hire risk then industry averages.



That makes sense, I'm still new with the CC processing and haven't had a chargeback. Mike have you noticed an increase of business from taking CC's?


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

firemike said:


> Plus I can take my machine with me and scan the credit card right at the job. Most homeowners will usually allow me to plug into their phone jack to complete the transaction. If they won't, or a phone line is not available, the machine will capture the information for later download. The only drawback with this is you won't get an approval or denial until you get to a phone line. But it is the same risk you are taking when you accept a check from them.



Hey Firemike who do you use to process your cc's? I like the idea of having a machine on the job to scan the cc's. Hope I didn't this info in this thread...but I would be interested to see the specifics of who you use.

thanks
Tim


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## JMO (Sep 12, 2005)

We currently do not accept credit cards. We have not been asked in a while either. Once or twice for FF miles only. However, we focus on larger remodels and custom homes, which are not typically CC type transactions. I always viewed it as a frequency issue. If I had a significant number of transactions in any given month, I'd consider accepting them.


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## Paul Burns (Jan 17, 2006)

*Has no affect?*

I don't recognize many names here, and I don't really look, so this is a general observation. I'm not singling anyone out for sure. I've seen severa people here and on other BB's say that not accepting CC's does not affect their business. Some even say for 20-25-30 years or whatever.

Question is, how would a person know if it affected them or not unless they tried them? I mean lots of people might go through the yellow pages, or whatever just looking for those CC logo's before calling. If we didn't accept them, we would never know that we missed those opportunities.

I mean even when you do accept them, that doesn't mean that everyone that pays with CC's would not have used us anyway. But I am pretty sure that accepting them DOES help. Actually, I know it does. I can think of a 10K job right now that we did in the last 6 months that we would NOT have gotten if we didn't accept CC's. At least that is what she told us. We might even be the only painter close enough to her that does take them. And I think that all of us are looking for ANY edge. At least we do.

So if accepting credit cards lets you raise your pricing across the board by 3-4% and it lands you just one average job per year, it is more than worth it. I have a hard time figuring out why anyone would not take CC's these days.

We buy almost all of our materials with CC's and have several hundred thousand sky miles saved. My wife and I both flew out of Key West to D.C. and back this month for free. At different times too! Those are tough tickets to come by also. Miami is one thing, KW is another. But regardless of where we might go, it sure is nice to fly free! I think a lot of people think like I do. Or at least a big enough percentage to make us want to offer that convenience to them.

Paul


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