# Electric fence



## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

Don't know where else to post this.

I have an 2 rail horse fence that has an electric fence wire on both rails. we have 2 gates with the fence. At each gate opening I am running underground wire to reconnect to each lower rail wire.
Question is: do I use jumper wires on each side of the gate, to attach the lower wire to the upper wire? or does the jump just need to occur at 1 place to anywhere within the fencing circuit.

Having a hard time with it.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

If it's a branded system, what brand and type? Do you know if the shock depends on the horse connecting from the rail to the ground, or from rail to rail or between conductors on each rail?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Or, another way to ask is, how is the fence wired from the charger? Does one conductor from the charger go into the ground, and the other to the fence, or do two conductors from the charger go to the fence? At the initial connection to the fence, does a single conductor connect to the 2 separate rails, or does one conductor connect to one rail and another connect to the other rail, or do 2 conductors connect separately to 2 separate wires on each rail, or is there a proprietary plug and you can't tell?


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

From the charger, one wire goes to the ground the other goes to the fence. So the horses touching the ground and wire creates the shock.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

I'll PM you.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Here ya go...


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

So it sounds like the jumper wires or the wires that connect the wires from top and bottom, only need to be at 1 point throughout the fence?
I currently have the 1 wire but the voltage is weak.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

You need a jumper between the top and bottom after every gate. If the voltage gets weak a ways out the line, it's probably due to poor conductivity of the ground [dirt]. You'd need to run an extra ground wire out there and stake it in.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> You need a jumper between the top and bottom after every gate. If the voltage gets weak a ways out the line, it's probably due to poor conductivity of the ground [dirt]. You'd need to run an extra ground wire out there and stake it in.


*Is that ground rod really creating any significant conductivity to the circut??????*

Don't know the technical term, but isn't any conductivity to the circut due to the earthing grounds sorta natural nutrality.???... and not the earths high resistance creating a circut.

Maybe, not maybe but actually, I really don't understand how an electric fence works technically speaking.... maybe the fence works/functions entirely different than a ground rod in home wiring.

TIA

Peter


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Electric fence works the same way as a branch circuit for outlets, except the device being plugged in is a cow or a horse.

Simplified, you need two conductors for current to flow. One feeds "hot" to the load, and the other carries it back to the source. In this case, the earth is that second conductor.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Electric fence works the same way as a branch circuit for outlets, except the device being plugged in is a cow or a horse.
> 
> Simplified, you need two conductors for current to flow. One feeds "hot" to the load, and the other carries it back to the source. In this case, the earth is that second conductor.


I guess my original question is/was: Does that ground rod really have anything to do with completeing the circut.....

The earth is off such high resistance, I don't understand how that ground rod really has anything to do with completing a circut. 

With apologies for lack of technical terms, does not the earth's sorta natural nutrality provide the potential difference to conduct a flow of electricity.

Would an additional ground rod really be effective solution... my understanding was that any conductivity from a ground rod diminsioned expotentially in a matter of several feet from the rod.

TIA

EDIT: I suppose if the horse was standing within several feet of the ground rod, then it might be the ground rod providing a completed circut.

Heck, if the ground rod in residential could complete a house circut thru the earth, I could grab a hot leg and plug my drill's neutral into the ground and have a circut.

What is the difference with an electric fence?

TIA

EDIT2 (Or we would not have a problem with a lost service neutral.... we would have a neutral circut from the house ground rod to the transformer ground).

My understanding our ground rods are merely to disipate a voltage (lightening hit).


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> I guess my original question is/was: Does that ground rod really have anything to do with completeing the circut.....
> 
> The earth is off such high resistance, I don't understand how that ground rod really has anything to do with completing a circut.


Yes it does, and no, the earth resistance isn't that high under normal circumstances. If you really think it is, try peeing on that fence. :w00t:

Notwithstanding what I said about branch circuits earlier, electric fences don't work exactly the same way as house wiring, nor are they governed by the same code constraints. Too much to get into.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Yes it does, and no, the earth resistance isn't that high under normal circumstances. *If you really think it is, try peeing on that fence*. :w00t:
> 
> Notwithstanding what I said about branch circuits earlier, electric fences don't work exactly the same way as house wiring, nor are they governed by the same code constraints. Too much to get into.


With regard to the bold, I honestly do not question that they work effectively.

I was trying to understand how they work across miles of wire and earth.... they must put out a chit load of voltage on very conductive wet earth conditions.

I understand you don't have time to explain.... maybe someone else will.

Thanks anyway

Best

Peter


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

anywhere between 4-10,000 volts. 
Currently mine is only generating 1000


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

How are you measuring that? A standard multimeter wouldn't give you the right reading.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

red_cedar said:


> anywhere between 4-10,000 volts.
> Currently mine is only generating 1000



I thought they were 3-4k.


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

Tinstaafl said:


> How are you measuring that? A standard multimeter wouldn't give you the right reading.


the voltmeter I use, is hooked on the wire then an end gets stuck in the ground. I have a low cost one. A light goes up the scale of voltage, showing how much the fence has.


.


> I thought they were 3-4k


that's where mine should be...that's considered 'medium'


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

When I was younger we use have have electric fences all the time. Sometimes when the ground was real dry would have to pour water around ground rod to make it work better. Way use to test if they where working was to put one hand on the ground and a blade of grass in the other and touch the wire.:laughing:found out real quick working or not.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

red_cedar said:


> the voltmeter I use, is hooked on the wire then an end gets stuck in the ground. I have a low cost one. A light goes up the scale of voltage, showing how much the fence has.


Well, unless it's specifically designed for measuring electric fence voltage, odds are it's way off. Regardless, as long as you aren't having to go round up livestock that's made its way through the fence, the voltage will probably suffice. :thumbsup:


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

The voltmeter scale goes from 600 - 7000 volts.

600 - 1000 is rated poor
2000 - 3000 is rated minimum
4000-5000 is rated good
6000-7000 is rated very good


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## Stewy (Nov 11, 2007)

test your voltage right at the terminals on the shocker,
if it is poor than it is a problem with the shocker.
if the voltage is good than you have problem on the fence,
follow the fence testing with your tester as you go, when the voltage drops
this is the area of the issue.


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## TimPa (Jan 26, 2010)

make sure your underground wire is insulated, well. you can't use the same bare conductor. and all connections are making good contact.


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## oldschoolcarp (Mar 2, 2014)

For our underground gate wires we use 12- 2 romex UB. 
That way when one goes bad, we have 2 others to use. Saves running a new line, unless someone hits it with the auger or backhoe or something. 

The ground (dirt, grasses, etc) makes one hell of a neutral return. There is plenty of moisture in it normally to support good conductivity, even when it is dry out. And water makes a better conductor than wire, so it's path of least resistance basically. 

Think of a plastic sheet placed over the ground and left for a few hours.

Electric fence works great especially when you slip in the rain and land on it on your back. Don't ask how I know. 

Mike:cowboy:


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