# Motion Sensor Separate from Light



## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

Do they make a motion sensor that can be mounted separately from the light that it controls?

I have found ones that are pieces of home automation systems like INSTEON and I have also found some wireless "switches" that communicate wirelessly with separate motion detectors. However, as I am looking to mount the motion only around 15 feet from the light and wiring path is easy to access, if there is something that can be simply hardwired to work as I would like, I would prefer that.

Any suggestions?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

They have the ones that are like light switches


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

Sorry, I should have clarified that this was for outdoor use.

Side door light existing motion setup does not work well as you need to be close before it kicks on. I am looking to mount a motion on the corner of the house so that when you start walking down the side, the light will kick on and help illuminate the path to the door.

I tried little solar path lighting and they do not provide enough light.

The separate motion would be the preferred method, otherwise I would be looking at wired path lighting as an alternative. However, at that point, springing for an INSTEON setup would probably be less expensive and open new doors to other potential options.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Looks like Dcapone gets on here every year or two to ask for professional answers to homeonwner questions.


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

Partially accurate...

I am a low voltage installer by trade and typically handle networking and access control installations. My initial intent on joining the forums was to be an active participant in the community, however, the low voltage forum on this board is extremely far from active. I frequently "lurk" on the forums, however, since I am by no means qualified to answer the majority of the posts in the electrical forums, I use my time mostly browsing the site and learning.

My familiarity with INSTEON comes from my work in the low installation field.

I do not see why a yearly post that pertains to something outside of my job would be a violation of forum rules in any way. If so, I do apologize.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm sure any young lackey @ blowes or home cheapo who happens to be working the electrical aisles can fix you right up. The parts are available. If you're questioning what to use, you'd better be getting someone else to do the installation for you. :whistling:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

dcapone said:


> Do they make a motion sensor that can be mounted separately from the light that it controls?


Yes they do--or at least, they used to. Not having worked with such things in recent years, I'm not tuned into what's currently available. Nevertheless, it would be no big deal to extend the wiring from the control unit to the actual lamp fixture(s) under the circumstances you describe.

It would probably help if you had some understanding of the electrical theory behind the devices you are installing.


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

I am well versed in the electrical theory behind the devices in use. I hold a degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering.

The issue I have with extending the motion sensor from the control unit is mostly aesthetics. I have yet to find a light at "blowe's or home cheapo" that really appears designed to have the sensor separated from the light. I understand that the motion sensor acts as nothing more than essentially a switch in the power path and is wired into the main unit typically with just a basic pair of wires. I have disabled the motion sensing capabilities of the light in question without issue as currently it is better for us to just leave the light on as opposed to not having light when needed.

What I do not have full comprehension about is even if I could get passed the aesthetics of the light without the sensor, is whether this would be code compliant as I am unsure whether the sensor could be mounted in a listed way outdoors separate from the light. My searches on the big box web sites and in general google searches for just motion sensor and motion sensor without light return either the indoor motion sensor switches as suggested by jls, your standard spotlight motions, your standard outdoor door light motions, or replacement motion sensors for one of the above.

If I can find the sensor, my ultimate thinking is going to be wiring it so that it triggers both the front and the side door lights. Electrically, if I feed the sensor with a hot, I should be able to pigtail the switched leg of the sensor to both lights without issue. A code question that comes up here is whether 14 gauge wire would be needed within the sensor. I know there are the code exceptions for "luminaires" to use smaller gauge wires, however, I am unsure if this application would qualify under that section. If it does, I also would be unclear on whether I can use 14/2 romex to extend from the light to the sensor or if I would need to use a matching gauge THHN (to the sensor wires) in conduit from the sensor to the lights. My initial thought is no because I do not think the code ever prevents oversizing conductors.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

http://www.smarthome.com/25507MS/Ad...tion-Activated-Lighting-Control-HS2144/p.aspx


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

When I lived in the hood a few years back I had issues with porch monkeys. Cops tell me I can't shoot them until they come through door.

Solution: I wired 3 500 halogens directly to the motion light run through conduit. Easy peasy. 

Can't come on the porch if you can't see it haha. It was glorious. And yes, the neighbors hated it.


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

Already saw that and others similar to it as mentioned in my original post. The issue with the wireless ones is that it either needs to communicate wirelessly with a "switch" that is wall mounted or directly with the light with either a compatible light system or a socket adapter. The compatible lights either add a lot of cost that makes me just want to go the insteon route and be able to add virtually limitless options in the future. The socket adapters/receivers do not fit in the existing fixtures and as such there would be additional cost to replace the fixtures, again making the insteon solution appear more worthwhile.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Just buy a motion eye for a flood light and be done with it. Cost yah about $8


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Check out a security camera store. They should have sensors that can be placed anywhere and either hardwired (through conduit of courrse) to your light switch. Then simply disable the sensor on your fixture.

That is what you are wanting correct? 

Another idea would be to take down the fixture, manually dissasemble and remove the sensor, relocate it to desired location and run wire back to fixture using appropriate sized wire.

First solution cost $, 2nd only cost time. You're overthinking it.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Driftweed, ya beat me to it!

Your last statement was exactly what I've been thinking.

This is being way overthought. It's a simple process both mechanically (or wirelessly) and aesthetically.

Hence my last comment.


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

I probably am overthinking the whole situation.

The issue with the flood eyes is that the sensor instructions specifically state not to be used with compact fluorescent bulbs. At least with what I found at the big box stores, I will take a trip to my local electrical supply house this weekend. For energy savings, I currently use and would like to stick with the CFLs as opposed to incandescent. 

Since I use CFL flood lamps in a different motion sensing flood light and everything has been working fine, can this portion of the instructions be ignored and be code compliant?

Also, if the wire is run inside from the light to the motion sensor, why can romex not be used (referring to drift's comment)?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

dcapone said:


> Also, if the wire is run inside from the light to the motion sensor, why can romex not be used (referring to drift's comment)?


It can be.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Yup just one option of many.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Driftweed said:


> When I lived in the hood a few years back I had issues with ****** ********. Cops tell me I can't shoot them until they come through door.
> 
> Solution: I wired 3 500 halogens directly to the motion light run through conduit. Easy peasy.
> 
> Can't come on the porch if you can't see it haha. It was glorious. And yes, the neighbors hated it.


  I can't believe this hasn't been edited out yet.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

jproffer said:


> I can't believe this hasn't been edited out yet.


Edit what? Get a life.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I did them like this at my place. On one I even wired two motions to one light,...try getting past that sucker :thumbup:

Like others said, pretty easy...


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