# Is going back to college worth it?



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Here's a company I used to work for. Even construction companies want a degree. Not all, but it is becoming the norm for higher positions. 

https://www.dpr.com/company/careers/university-connection


----------



## jrizzo11 (Sep 23, 2016)

My "short answer" would be NO, but it depends on your goals...

Here's my take on the job market right now- 

- EVERYONE is coming away with degrees. Millennials leave college expecting jobs, but employers want to see the ability to think critically (colleges don't teach that much anymore), learn fast, and learn as you go to add value to the company.

- Networking is king. Yes, in some jobs they might ask for education experience, but honestly I think we're entering a world where it means more that you started your own successful business than got a degree. Again, that's generic- but that experience is HUGE.

- If there was a job that absolutely required a degree (legal work, hospital work, etc.) and you could be sure you'd be able to pay off the cost of the degree, then go for it.

Here's the real answer why I think you might not benefit from it:

1. Colleges (imo) are charging WAY more than they give in knowledge. 

2. You can now learn on-demand almost anything you need for fractions of the cost of a college degree. Lynda, Udemy, and places like it allow you to learn business, marketing, almost anything you need. 

3. If you're just looking for business knowledge, YouTube channels like HustleCon host real business owners (i.e. the founder of Pandora, etc.) to give 30 minute talks of FREE info, and there's tons more like them. 

4. In my experience, there are two broad kinds of learning: 

1- theory (i.e. a school teaching you the theory of a business practice)
2- practical (learning what you need, when you need it, to achieve real results). 

I believe the #2 - Practical learning can be done almost entirely for free or very cheap, online, and if you're a hard worker, you can learn to think critically, apply what works and discard what doesn't, at your next venture. 

I know someone who is an MBA that might differ on this answer- but I can tell you that I've learned more in the past two years at my work from learning the #2 practical knowledge online, implementing it and seeing it work, then going back for a college degree on it. 

Plus- no debt - which is a pretty nice option. Happy to send you further resources, but hopefully that's helpful.


----------



## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> There are many companies that won't even look at you unless you have a degree. It doesn't even matter what the degree is in. College tells an employer more than just what your major was. It says this person followed through with a commitment that probably started at a young age.


I will hire a person who was in the military, any day, before hiring someone who went to college. Military people are down-to-earth, usually humble and made real commitments. College brats are often idiots spending four years at a college learning what they should have learned in high school, in the first place, and at their parent's expense. My 11th-grade son literally tutors my daughter and her friends for math and they are in their 3rd year at a college. 

I am guessing that 90 percent of most college graduates can't write one decent paragraph and they don't know how many ounces are in a pound. Start asking that question and find out for yourself. In the past three years, I hired two persons who graduated with civil engineering degrees and they knew absolutely nothing about blueprints. When I asked them what they learned in college both of them said, "absolutely nothing that was applicable."

When interviewing an applicant I am not as interested in what the applicant knows as I am interested in what I can teach the applicant as an employee. If the applicant graduated from 12 years of school, 4 years of college and could not be taught, in 16 years, how many ounces are in a pound then I will have to guess that I cannot teach the applicant what I need him to know to be able to work for my company.


----------



## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

jrizzo11 said:


> I believe the #2 - Practical learning can be done almost entirely for free or very cheap, online, and if you're a hard worker, you can learn to think critically, apply what works and discard what doesn't, at your next venture.
> 
> .


It cost me a good bit to learn from my experience. Looking back, a few courses in business would have been beneficial.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

pcplumber said:


> I will hire a person who was in the military, any day, before hiring someone who went to college. Military people are down-to-earth, usually humble and made real commitments. College brats are often idiots spending four years at a college learning what they should have learned in high school, in the first place, and at their parent's expense. My 11th-grade son literally tutors my daughter and her friends for math and they are in their 3rd year at a college.
> 
> I am guessing that 90 percent of most college graduates can't write one decent paragraph and they don't know how many ounces are in a pound. Start asking that question and find out for yourself. In the past three years, I hired two persons who graduated with civil engineering degrees and they knew absolutely nothing about blueprints. When I asked them what they learned in college both of them said, "absolutely nothing that was applicable."
> 
> When interviewing an applicant I am not as interested in what the applicant knows as I am interested in what I can teach the applicant as an employee. If the applicant graduated from 12 years of school, 4 years of college and could not be taught, in 16 years, how many ounces are in a pound then I will have to guess that I cannot teach the applicant what I need him to know to be able to work for my company.


No one said college makes you smarter now did they? It does however make you more educated. That is undeniable. There are stupid people in all walks of life, including colleges but it isn't because of college. My point is, college is becoming the new high school diploma. If you're looking to work in the higher positions in construction in some of these large companies most will require a degree. You may be the smartest guy alive without a degree but they will never know that. 

Kinda like when my wife asked me, 

"If I was fat and ugly would you have still married me?" I said, "sure, but I would've never met you".


----------



## jrizzo11 (Sep 23, 2016)

TxElectrician said:


> It cost me a good bit to learn from my experience. Looking back, a few courses in business would have been beneficial.


Great point! Let me clarify-

I'm not saying you should never pay money to learn from a pro. In fact, I'm 100% FOR that.

So for example- 

If you're operating your electrical business and struggling to make profit every time, I'm 100% for paying to take an online or in person course from a contractor who can teach you how to do it the right way. You could pay up to thousands of dollars for that, and it would be worth it.

My only point is that when you take an actual college degree program - you're paying for lots of courses that aren't relevant, that you won't use, and you're paying 10x the price. So rather than paying 80,000 for a degree, just pay $5,000-$10,000 in online courses (and that's high, you could probably get away for MUCH less) and come away with the exact knowledge you need to overcome that specific weakness or painpoint. 

Plus, you're putting what you learn into practice while you're operating your business. 

But yeah- great point, and I am totally pro learning and education to prevent mistakes, just...the right kinds.

I DO agree with Californiadecks - that some jobs will require a degree (as I mentioned earlier), like that of "Project Management". Nobody's gonna hire you without a degree for that unless you managed some insane experience. 

It all goes back to what your goals are. If you have a job you want that needs a degree- then yeah - go to school. If you have a specific goal or pain you want to overcome, just take a once off course and save money and time.


----------



## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

jrizzo11 said:


> Great point! Let me clarify-
> 
> I'm not saying you should never pay money to learn from a pro. In fact, I'm 100% FOR that.
> 
> ...


Checked out your bio-could be you are a little biased?


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

I'll testify every time the subject comes up: going to evening community college classes and then on to MSU for the NAHB sponsored GB degree - best time and money spent.

Did both in my late 20s thru 30s, and both AFTER I went into building business on my own.

That meant that every minute and every dollar I spent was precious to me and I was not about to pis away one iota. Plus I knew EXACTLY what I was looking for - business management acumen.

There's no one pat answer - just got to suss out what works for each individual.


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> No one said college makes you smarter now did they? It does however make you more educated. That is undeniable.


Had an old guy I hung around in my mid 20's. Assistant principal and taught economics at Marquette University. He explained it this way. All a degree proves is that you have shown you have the ability to learn at different levels. BA, MA, PHP. A step up showing you can adapt and achieve absolutely. But the real value is not the data and information that in today's world is obsolete before you graduate. 

And that's probably why the professional Academics, most educated in regurgitating facts and data, can be some of the dumbest people, on the face of the earth.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Texas Wax said:


> Had an old guy I hung around in my mid 20's. Assistant principal and taught economics at Marquette University. He explained it this way. All a degree proves is that you have shown you have the ability to learn at different levels. BA, MA, PHP. A step up showing you can adapt and achieve absolutely. But the real value is not the data and information that in today's world is obsolete before you graduate.
> 
> And that's probably why the professional Academics, most educated in regurgitating facts and data, can be some of the dumbest people, on the face of the earth.


It does show another level of commitment vs. Just a high school diploma. If I'm a human resources director and I have a choice between a guy with experience and a college degree and one with experience, but no college degree, and it pays the same. I'm probably going to call the guys with a degree for an interview. Sometimes companies get hundreds of applications they have to narrow them down before they even talk to you. It makes sense you start with education. 

I'm not talking about a tradesmen I'm talking about the upper office positions.


----------



## jrizzo11 (Sep 23, 2016)

TxElectrician said:


> Checked out your bio-could be you are a little biased?


No, just deeply convicted. I've had this conversation many times with friends and family, and am living proof of it - for many people (not all) it's a debt trap. Anytime I've needed to learn something to grow our business, I've gone to Udemy, YouTube, Blogs, etc. and I implement it immediately. If I didn't work where I do, I'd still have the same opinion.


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> I'm not talking about a tradesmen I'm talking about the upper office positions.


Got me there :laughing: Must have been thinking in terms of hiring laborers with PHDs :thumbsup: That's always a successful combination.

Just offering an alternative view to what "College Educated" means and what it's real value may be. Of course it shows commitment to achieve a goal. It may explain how people with degrees who did real well in College do not always succeed. Good at learning, application of knowledge to real world - not so much. Seen too much of that.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Texas Wax said:


> Got me there :laughing: Must have been thinking in terms of hiring laborers with PHDs :thumbsup: That's always a successful combination.
> 
> Just offering an alternative view to what "College Educated" means and what it's real value may be. Of course it shows commitment to achieve a goal. It may explain how people with degrees who did real well in College do not always succeed. Good at learning, application of knowledge to real world - not so much. Seen too much of that.


That has nothing to do with them being college educated. That's an age old human trait. You're somehow equating not doing well with college. Statistics prove a college education gets you more money and more opportunities. Not saying that's always the case there's plenty of successful people out there without an education. A person without drive comes in all walks of life. Has zero to do with how educated they are.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Pew research


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Not saying that's always the case there's plenty of successful people out there without an education. A person without drive comes in all walks of life. Has zero to do with how educated they are.


.... wtf? This is getting circular?

Never said successful people had to have an formal education. But they are life time "learners". Sheer will and drive only go so far before you have to study and learn to make the right changes. Adapt to changing environments. 

Not trying to argue or get in a heated debate. I KNOW the value of education, why it works's, how it works, the statistics. Have said twice now that a degree can be an advantage. Just have a little different spin on where the value comes from. Sorry no peer reviewed statistics and studies or fancy charts. As that always trumps everything. :laughing:


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Texas Wax said:


> .... wtf? This is getting circular?
> 
> Never said successful people had to have an formal education. But they are life time "learners". Sheer will and drive only go so far before you have to study and learn to make the right changes. Adapt to changing environments.
> 
> Not trying to argue or get in a heated debate. I KNOW the value of education, why it works's, how it works, the statistics. Have said twice now that a degree can be an advantage. Just have a little different spin on where the value comes from. Sorry no peer reviewed statistics and studies or fancy charts. As that always trumps everything. :laughing:


Okay.:laughing:


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Okay.:laughing:


Okay Okay :laughing:

:vs_peace:


----------



## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

What was the question?


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Texas Wax said:


> Okay Okay :laughing:
> 
> :vs_peace:


Oh hell no! Okay okay okay!


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

The best study I'm aware of on the topic:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/whatsitworth-complete.pdf

If you already have a career, you have to compare those potential earnings to both the degree you're looking for and the industry you'll be applying it in.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

pcplumber said:


> That still does not answer the question this thread is about. He did not say he wanted to go to college to change careers and I believe that I wrote in posts two posts that it would be a good idea to quit your day job and go to college if a person wants to change careers to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, or whatever.





pcplumber said:


> *You win!!! I Quit!!* I expressed my views. I love it when you talk dirty to me. *Time to move on* and torture someone in another thread.!



liar


----------



## Russ in AK (Mar 4, 2016)

This Plumber guy sure gets his panties twisted when people don't agree with him...

PCPlumber, serious question... Do you need to fill out a hurt feelings report?


----------

