# Propping Severly Leaning Shrub



## artinall

We have a shrub which grew alongside a pole barn, similar to the kind you see along the highway but with massier, reaching limbs. The whole thing settled due to the recent snowload (even though we brushed away most of the accumulation). It is about 10 ft high in slanted stature and that's weirdly difficult to 'lift back' manually regardless of length of the lever OR the amount of oomph that is raised with - figuring a whole mound more than 500 lbs of pressure here. 

To complicate matters further, it rests on a sloped garden area, guessing a 15 degree incline (parallel w/wall) as luck would have it while there is an underground line near one side but they're marking the utilities by tues.

So from the start, the tree-bush is lopsided. Can't pull the metal skin from the side of the pole barn structure, and, pull it back vertical from within the inside via our loader, though pondered this as the best way to go...

The growth has bout 30 & 1/2 main central branches, so to prop it with studs and lever it upwards is highly doubtful - simply a fine skeleton to push against. Even if it were hole-roped for attachment.

Possibly the best way, if it can be done, is to lift the thing back upright with our loader bucket (assuming some damage to branches) and take and then cudgel-in several 4x4's cut-to-points, around the downside root area, in an effort to prevent another leaning. But this runs the risk of root damage, besides the lifting, and also if we make the stakes from treated material there will likely be contact with the treating chemical seeping into the roots -- is there danger in this?

Any form of cabling is definitely out. Not enough room to harness a block and tackle from the opposite side to pull from. 

Will try and post a pic tomorrow if possible.... ideas?


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## asevereid

Definitely need a pic...do you know the height, type, variety of the shrub? How far along in it's seasonal growth can give you some leeway in how you tackle straightening it out.


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## Bill1500

I'd like to see pictures to get a little better idea of what you have going on. I might have read this wrong, but are you thinking of putting a 4X4 in the ground, then leaning into the shrub to hold it up?


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## artinall

ProscapeLawn.. said:


> I'd like to see pictures to get a little better idea of what you have going on. I might have read this wrong, but are you thinking of putting a 4X4 in the ground, then leaning into the shrub to hold it up?


 Was considering this.

But now, given the marked electric, which runs through the leftside, thinking about staking angled treated studs from the far sides, and running maybe a pair of heavy ropes, if this could hold it (or studs at right angles) thru the center. I think the underground lines should be at least 18" down.


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## Bill1500

IMO trying to support it will do too much harm and it is just too established. You could either TRY to dig it out, or cut it down and replace it. I don't think there is much saving it where it is right now though, but I'd love to hear opinions from guys with more experience than me.


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## artinall

Does anyone happen to have a guess on just how deep and far the root ball on this thing might stretch based on its type/species? _It might be best to dig out around, tip it up and reset. But this would still mean holding it upright somewhat while the other lucky person gets to do the digging!_

Can't be that husky, given the fall, unless it was the wall side roots alone that didn't form due to the building, etc.


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## asevereid

artinall said:


> Does anyone happen to have a guess on just how deep and far the root ball on this thing might stretch based on its type/species? _It might be best to dig out around, tip it up and reset. But this would still mean holding it upright somewhat while the other lucky person gets to do the digging!_
> 
> Can't be that husky, given the fall, unless it was the wall side roots alone that didn't form due to the building, etc.


Roots are going to be fairly shallow, but spread out. I am still trying to figure this one out...because that looks like snow damage to me. So even if you get it straightened right out, what's going to happen next winter?


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## artinall

asevereid said:


> Roots are going to be fairly shallow, but spread out. I am still trying to figure this one out...because that looks like snow damage to me. So even if you get it straightened right out, what's going to happen next winter?


 If I can do stakes incognito, might just leave them in place. Did pick up some 1" by 1" oak stakes...

Just came back from chatting with a local nursery, and gave a sample to them.

According to them, snow should _not _be removed from these branches manually but should be left to nature to shed.

They also say these should really be wrapped in burlap during all winter months, until weather clears.

How many people go out and tie these in burlap every late fall?


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## superseal

Fickle people who spend bucks to admire their shrubs have been known to cover with burlap - personally, I think it's too close to the building anyway so there's one good reason for removal. 

Leaners like that can be fixed with guy wire/rubber hose and stakes, but five years down the road or so you might have another problem on your hands in regards to size and girth. 

I say chit can it and plant something new a little further away to call your own.


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## artinall

superseal said:


> Leaners like that can be fixed with guy wire/rubber hose and stakes, but five years down the road or so you might have another problem on your hands in regards to size and girth.


 There's no where to hold the wire to. Not enough room between the wall. Which is why I have rigid stakes, to hold it from the garden side.

What can't be seen from the photos is it's prominence. It's a fixture you see it every time you pull in the drive that helps conceal the electric conduit on the wall as well.


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## asevereid

How attached is the HO to that particular shrub? Is it more cost effective to perform the labor to get it upright and have a potentially similar issue down the road? Or is it an option at this point to remove it and replace it with a shrub that will perform in its place?


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## artinall

asevereid said:


> How attached is the HO to that particular shrub? Is it more cost effective to perform the labor to get it upright and have a potentially similar issue down the road? Or is it an option at this point to remove it and replace it with a shrub that will perform in its place?


 I live here. We do want to keep it if possible. If a new one is planted, then every time it is seen it will bring about the thought "Hey, who planted the new shrub there". For a number of years to come.


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## artinall

Apologies for the DP but thought I should post the completed pics which I finished later today :

Was able to "gentle" push-lift with the loader from the front side. _With this braked into position:_

To help anchor the studs I screwed on with deck screws EZ Menders at the ends - then drove down between the branches with a short handle sledge, before ropping 3 or 4 main limbs back (taking 'around one' and across the others, with 700 lb material) atop deck screws to prevent slippage. 

As you probably notice, I topped the bush and thinned the front which should help maintain position and strengthen. Remembering my talk with the nursery, they said this should be done this month while it's still dormant.

If root growth can be stimulated (tree spikes ?) this should probably be done as well.

So I guess this is what I like to do - _help breath new life into something that is taken to be a dismal or lost cause.

_That rope was kind of slick tying off the ends - hope it stays still.


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## asevereid

Looks great, I like the fix...just be mindful of the snowload next winter.


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## Crawdad

I have one I had to do that with...It went over again, this winter. It's coming out this time.


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## Tom Struble

er..ah..nice bush..:thumbsup:


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## hdavis

Just a couple of things. It's too close to the building. Those ropes are going to damage the trunks if you leave them like that. Padded straps would be better, but nothing is perfect.

The fastest way to get this vertical is dig a couple holes up hill, and flood with lots and lots of water to get the ground mucky deep, then get it into position. Just use the supports until it dries out enough to hold firm.


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## artinall

hdavis said:


> Just a couple of things. It's too close to the building. Those ropes are going to damage the trunks if you leave them like that. Padded straps would be better, but nothing is perfect.
> 
> The fastest way to get this vertical is dig a couple holes up hill, and flood with lots and lots of water to get the ground mucky deep, then get it into position. Just use the supports until it dries out enough to hold firm.


 Don't entirely follow you.

Its proximity to the building is something that already been established. Been like that for 10+ yrs and we weren't going for a new placement, which would mean digging the thing out & possibly more risk to the tree.

Considered padded straps, as these are commonly used. But to me, advantage was debatable, especially given the way the rope had to be wound.

By 'dig a couple holes and flood..' are you suggesting this be done to set the stakes, or that this might help the bush find its vertical direction all on it's own - without any staking? Yet if the supports are left in, this might help prevent it dropping to far again in the future. It is starting to firm up, after setting down slightly which was expected. Surely the aged roots have much to do with where it is ending up.


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## hdavis

artinall said:


> By 'dig a couple holes and flood..' are you suggesting this be done to set the stakes, or that this might help the bush find its vertical direction all on it's own - without any staking? Yet if the supports are left in, this might help prevent it dropping to far again in the future. It is starting to firm up, after setting down slightly which was expected. Surely the aged roots have much to do with where it is ending up.


No, the flooding is to soften the ground, making it easier for the roots to move through it to what ever position they need to be in for it to be upright. Soften the ground, then move and stake. A lot of times, that's what happens to make it lean in the first place. Wet ground, followed by a strong wind, heavy snow, etc. can make that happen in a day.


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## artinall

hdavis said:


> No, the flooding is to soften the ground, making it easier for the roots to move through it to what ever position they need to be in for it to be upright. Soften the ground, then move and stake. A lot of times, that's what happens to make it lean in the first place. Wet ground, followed by a strong wind, heavy snow, etc. can make that happen in a day.


 Makes sense. 

It was moist-damp, with the short eve above, but not mucky. I could still wet the high side.


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## hdavis

Good luck with it, I know you can get it upright again and you're already making progress.


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## artinall

It already was upright, if you saw my later pics, read the post, etc. Again not sure what you're...

I was simply looking into your suggestions for it


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## hdavis

artinall said:


> It already was upright, if you saw my later pics, read the post, etc. Again not sure what you're...


Meaning upright without bracing vs braced upright. Just takes some root growth now, and spring mud season will help it along, but you know all that.

FWIW, flooding the footing has been used to straighten a poured retaining wall while the concrete was still green. A useful technique, when it's needed.


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