# Need advice on a tear up



## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

I'm working on a bid for a remodel job that involves among other things, tearing out and replacing ceramic tile floor. The tile that is on the floor now was installed by the H/O when the house was built. He says there is no backing board under the tile and it was glued down to the sub floor with a flooring adhesive instead of thin set. What are the chances that this stuff will come up without taking the top off of the sub floor? My first thought is to try to talk the H/O out of replacing the tile. There is nothing wrong with it except she's just ready for a change. My second thought is that if the tiles aren't loose, popping up etc. that they are probably stuck pretty good but I wouldn't know that until I try to bust it up. I've asked a couple of flooring contractors about it and no one wants to touch it.  Anybody ever ran into anything like this?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Bid out the demo as if it were a proper tile installation. Then bid the install with adding a new layer of 1/2" ply with Ditra. :thumbup:

That's assuming the subfloor construction is within specs.


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## trptman (Mar 26, 2007)

seems to me about all you can do is give her a price based on the possibility you need to replace the subfloor. Until you start, you aren't going to know how they will come up (the joys of remodeling).

The other thing, and this depends on the physical situation you have, is maybe going over the existing tile with new subfloor etc. this will add thickness to the floor and may create some problems transitioning from room to room, but it might be an option. 

or you rip the old tile up and if it damages the subfloor too much, you just put another fresh layer of subfloor.

there's several ways to approach it-but it all depends. you are there and we aren't.

if the thickness of the floor is critical and you can't layer anything more on there-then just price it as if you need to replace the subfloor. Or make sure she understands that once you start your price will jump from x to x+y if the tile don't come up leaving the floor intact etc.

I'm not a full time tile installer and maybe someone else can help a bit more, but I don't see much other option. unless (and I've never done this so I'm of limited help on the details) you want to tile directly over the existing. I'm just not sure what you would need to do to prep the old tile surface and then you have the underlying issue of the original layer may or may not be adhered correctly since the HO did it. You would need to adjust the warranty on your work to account for that.

hope that helps at least a little


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## finaltouchfloor (Jul 26, 2009)

Just do what trtpman said.

But remember, the smaller the job , the higher the price per sq ft. So if its just an 5 x 10 ft entryway jack the price up.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I would NOT consider installing new tile over tile that has been installed with flooring adhesive. You're asking for trouble there. Ask yourself if you're willing to trust the original install to place yours over. One problem with the tile glued directly to a subfloor and your install is screwed. Now it's _your _problem. :whistling


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## BHR (Jan 7, 2009)

I think the pig of the thing would be trying to get the tile off clean - Likely there will be a million little chards stuck to the subfloor. I would go with the suggestions here about pricing. Hope for the best, but surely expect the worst.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

I've run into this twice and both times we had to replace the subfloor. 

We demo'd a row of tiles, skipped a few, then demo'd another row. Same with perpendicular rows... We then cut the subfloor into pieces and removed in big sections. Because of weight, dust, and the possibility of a screwed down subfloor, we now estimate these jobs at about 3 man hours per 32 square feet for demo and joist prep for new subfloor.

Hope that helps.


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

trptman said:


> seems to me about all you can do is give her a price based on the possibility you need to replace the subfloor. Until you start, you aren't going to know how they will come up (the joys of remodeling).
> 
> The other thing, and this depends on the physical situation you have, is maybe going over the existing tile with new subfloor etc. this will add thickness to the floor and may create some problems transitioning from room to room, but it might be an option.
> 
> ...


Bingo. 



Or:


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## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

BHR said:


> I think the pig of the thing would be trying to get the tile off clean - Likely there will be a million little chards stuck to the subfloor. I would go with the suggestions here about pricing. Hope for the best, but surely expect the worst.


That is what I foresee happening. I like Mellison's 2nd option but dont think that would be feasible for a 500 sq/ft job. Thanks for your comments guys I'll keep you posted.:thumbsup:


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

Your best bet is to do like double a and just bid the job for ripping the subfloor out. Just rip it out and be done with it so you can start with a fresh surface and you won't have any surprises. I've learned that most of the time in situations like this it never works out the way you hope and you end up tearing it all out anyway and then your in a bad mood cause things don't go like you planned. So most of the time I will just bid it to rip everything out in the first place and it usually ends up saving some time since you just get in and do it instead of trying it one way and hoping and then end up doing it the other way. 

If it's not that big of an area it shouldn't take that long. If Double A bids 3 hours for 32 sq ft a normal bathroom would only be around 5 to 6 man hours so your not talking a huge expense, plus you would have to bid some demo anyway if you were going to try and rip the old tile out and save the floor. To me it's a no brainer that I would just charge for the full demo and explain to the HO the benifits of doing it this way to insure they get the best job by starting fresh. 

Good Luck


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## EliteDimensions (Dec 28, 2007)

You could go over the existing tile with Ditra Mat is there isnt a height issue. Sometimes the tile will come up easy, you can try removing a tile in an inconspicuous area if possible.


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