# type s mortar for mudbed?



## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

When building a shower without a liner that is waterprooofed with aqua d or hydroban is there anything wrong with using type s mortar? 

I have always used mudbed mix from mapei or customs or laticrete. However, if it is not getting a liner and there is no need for water to flow through, why not just use regular type s mortar for 5 bucks a bag?


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

2 reasons...
Type S isnt made to be poured that thick. You might get shrinkage cracks as it dries.
Type S isnt made to be shaped into a pan form for your pitch. To get it to pitch correctly it would need to be mixed very dry. If you do that you run the risk of it just crumbling when it dried.
Actual deck mud or sand mix from HD is only $6-$7. Is a few bucks worth it?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

bluebird:

So if I understand your old posts, your shower pan will be a pre-sloped deck mud, maybe concrete board on the walls, mesh tape walls to the pan, then hydroban over everything. Then thinset tile over walls and floor.

And your question is whether the deck mud can be type S mortar?

Deck mud is leaner (less cement, more sand), doesn't have lime, is generally made with sharp sand rather than mason sand, and is mixed much dryer than mortar usually. Those differences make it stronger, though less plastic and sticky. What's the increased risk that your pan will crack if made with type S? I don't know.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Just use sand topping mix and cut it with play sand. Cheap easy and no need to over think it.


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well sounds like type s is a no no. Sacrete sand mix ok then? 

I just didn't want to be paying 14 bucks a bag for mud if I could use a little different product for 1/3 the cost. I know it my sound cheap, but these costs add up in a house. An extra 50 and 100 bucks here there and yonder add up to several thousand at the end of the build.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

bluebird5 said:


> Well sounds like type s is a no no. Sacrete sand mix ok then?
> 
> I just didn't want to be paying 14 bucks a bag for mud if I could use a little different product for 1/3 the cost. I know it my sound cheap, but these costs add up in a house. An extra 50 and 100 bucks here there and yonder add up to several thousand at the end of the build.


I'd pay to see someone try and screed a mud bed with sticky bouncy type s.

Sandmix is fine, but maybe a hair rich in the Portland department.


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## owattabuilder (Sep 2, 2013)

Why no liner, it sounds like you are asking for trouble. I have seen pans with no liner leak all over the concrete floor they were poured on. The only time I have ever seen no liner is when a pan is recessed into a slab on grade. Then they used regular concrete,.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

owattabuilder said:


> Why no liner, it sounds like you are asking for trouble. I have seen pans with no liner leak all over the concrete floor they were poured on. The only time I have ever seen no liner is when a pan is recessed into a slab on grade. Then they used regular concrete,.


You can build them without a liner using a flange drain or a divot on a clamping drain.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

owattabuilder said:


> Why no liner, it sounds like you are asking for trouble. I have seen pans with no liner leak all over the concrete floor they were poured on. The only time I have ever seen no liner is when a pan is recessed into a slab on grade. Then they used regular concrete,.


Surface membrane


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## ee3 (Feb 10, 2006)

See ANSI A108.1A for "do it yourself " Mortar mixes.
Allot easier to go buy it pre-mixed.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

bluebird5 said:


> Well sounds like type s is a no no. Sacrete sand mix ok then?
> 
> I just didn't want to be paying 14 bucks a bag for mud if I could use a little different product for 1/3 the cost. I know it my sound cheap, but these costs add up in a house. An extra 50 and 100 bucks here there and yonder add up to several thousand at the end of the build.


If my calculations are right, the sand topping mix is about a 3;1 ratio so for every 60 lb bag, you'd use half bag (50 lbs) of play sand.

2 bags - sand topping for one full bag of play sand gets you pretty darn close to 5;1 ratio.

Turning that into a 3x5 shower bed, you should be pretty good with 3 bags of sand topping and 1.5 to 2 full bags of play sand and that's under $25 total.


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