# Narrowing down Air Compressors



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> can't say I agree with Brian saying the mac 700 as twice as loud as other trim compressors:no:


Yeah, I couldn't say.

I can say that the Cal Air/GMC is the quietest one I've ever owned or worked around.


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## EDCivilian (Mar 26, 2012)

Menards has the 5510SE California Air on clearance for $150 currently. Leaning towards that. Low amp draw, 5.5 gallon and the CFM I believe I'll need for my tasks. I may come up with an extendable handle, maybe some meatier wheels/tires, but for $150, easy to carry from both handles, really quiet. I'm leaning towards that one.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

i hear on getting one that isn't loud . i am getting real particular about how loud my tools are .
as for the cold start .for the compressors running in oil make sure you have synthetic in them . besides running on less resistance it doesn't get effected by the cold as much


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## EDCivilian (Mar 26, 2012)

JFM constr said:


> i hear on getting one that isn't loud . i am getting real particular about how loud my tools are .
> as for the cold start .for the compressors running in oil make sure you have synthetic in them . besides running on less resistance it doesn't get effected by the cold as much


Thanks!

I'm just done with the Dewalt, it's obnoxious and can't be plugged in with an extension cord 90% of the time.

I'm debating between the California Air for $150 at Menards, or going with a Rolair VT20TB because of the larger wheels, higher CFM's, and the ability to continue to run without hurting the compressor(Doubt I'll ever run it that constant but nice to have).

Rolair is $200 more than the California Air, but in the long run of things, I am leaning towards the Rolair now.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

We’re Rolair here. We don’t need a lot so just JC10s. We went Rolair for the quiet and it is.


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## EDCivilian (Mar 26, 2012)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> We’re Rolair here. We don’t need a lot so just JC10s. We went Rolair for the quiet and it is.


I see the JC10 is the only oilless compressor they offer and I just don't think it's quite enough compressor for my needs. I really would like one as an indoor, quick trim jobs, but really can't afford to have multiple compressors. I am leaning towards an aluminum tank California Air model.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The VT20TB can run two framing guns without issue. This is important to me anyway because it will run two TigerClaw tc-g guns easily at the same time. I'm convinced it would run three due to only needing 90lbs of air pressure. This info is just to give you an idea of its capabilities. I'd also like to add that it's very very quiet considering it's size. Anything with the bigger bored motor will be a little heavier as well. But the quietness is worth the tradeoff.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Nov 1, 2015)

EDCivilian said:


> I see the JC10 is the only oilless compressor they offer and I just don't think it's quite enough compressor for my needs. I really would like one as an indoor, quick trim jobs, but really can't afford to have multiple compressors. I am leaning towards an aluminum tank California Air model.


The JC10 uses a very similar pump to the California air tools compressor you are looking at, the hp and cfm delivery are identical. The California air tools comes with a bigger tank, but that can hurt you as much as help you in a lot of construction situations. 

If you're nailing quickly and keep going when the compressor cycles on, you can run the tank pressure down enough that it cannot replenish it and it keeps running. With a smaller tank, the cycle time is very short, and it will get back to max pressure and shut off as soon as you stop nailing to cut a board or load more nails. 

I think the larger tanks are most useful in automotive applications, like running impact wrenches or air ratchets where you need a decent volume of air for short periods of time. In constant use applications the larger tank doesn't do anything for you, as you're running off the compressor itself.


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## Al Truistic (Nov 19, 2004)

California Air Tools 4.6-Gallon Ultra Quiet & Oil-Free Twin Tank Air Compressor (CAT-4610A) on sale for $105.99.

http://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...rue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


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## EDCivilian (Mar 26, 2012)

Wow! I ended up ordering that one on Amazon for my own personal use. $90 shipped after I used my Amazon points.


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## Defenestrate (Aug 13, 2015)

Al Truistic said:


> California Air Tools 4.6-Gallon Ultra Quiet & Oil-Free Twin Tank Air Compressor (CAT-4610A) on sale for $105.99.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...rue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


Ordered one too -- thanks for the heads up. They say 1-2 months delivery, but who cares! 

Wondering if I can graft a tiny 1 gallon tank from another unit and make something a bit more compact/lighter... Anyone done this?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Defenestrate said:


> Ordered one too -- thanks for the heads up. They say 1-2 months delivery, but who cares!
> 
> Wondering if I can graft a tiny 1 gallon tank from another unit and make something a bit more compact/lighter... Anyone done this?


No, but I was/am going to.

I ordered a head from them, and a 1.6 gal aluminum tank from an outfit in ohio.

The plan is to marry the two up.

It's been sitting now sitting 2012.

http://www.californiaairtools.com/motors-pumps-quiet-oil-free/


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Defenestrate said:


> Ordered one too -- thanks for the heads up. They say 1-2 months delivery, but who cares!
> 
> Wondering if I can graft a* tiny 1 gallon tank from another unit and make something a bit more compact/lighter.*.. Anyone done this?


try this one http://www.amazon.com/Senco-PC1010-1-Horsepower-1-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B0000AQK78

I use it for my 23 g pin nailer as my 18 gauge and 15 gauge are cordless


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

kevjob said:


> try this one http://www.amazon.com/Senco-PC1010-1-Horsepower-1-Gallon-Compressor/dp/B0000AQK78
> 
> I use it for my 23 g pin nailer as my 18 gauge and 15 gauge are cordless


I had mine for 10 years and I just got this one
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HU..._UL130_SR130,111_&refRID=1DN06JHSCT58GKSB8Y84


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Al Truistic said:


> California Air Tools 4.6-Gallon Ultra Quiet & Oil-Free Twin Tank Air Compressor (CAT-4610A) on sale for $105.99.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...rue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


It is now back up to a sale price of $249.99. 

I called and spoke with California Air Tools trying to figure out their part number system, as they are not listed on their website. The 4610A is their regular duty compressor, which is still pretty good. The 4610A-H is the heavy duty version. There is also a 4610AC-B which has a heavier duty pressure switch and is black in color, but doesn't have the HD pump. The compressors from them are changing pumps etc., and will be going on sale as they use up their old parts. 
Edit: "A" is for aluminum tanks. 

California Air Tools has an Ebay account they sell thru. When I spoke to them I confirmed what their "Used" compressors were, which is basically a scratch and dent sale. Meaning brand new, but paint might be scratched off. Don't know about others, but the first time I move the thing it will get scratched so a hefty discount for already having a scratch in it is just fine with me. The salesman "claimed" the warranty was for a full one year. Either way parts are available and I am a gambling man when it comes to warranties. I bought one in hopes of living a more peaceful life from noise pollution. No sales tax from Ebay and I live in the California. Also a lower price by $20 than their own website. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/California-...608483?hash=item464c777763:g:iJwAAOSwuTxWAE0a
You can click on their "Items For Sale" if you are interested in other models. 

A cool compressor would be one of these Systainer models  Although it is basically the same size compressor/tank as the little Senco compressor, and Senco even has their own version using the 1010.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Peter_C said:


> It is now back up to a sale price of $249.99.
> 
> I called and spoke with California Air Tools trying to figure out their part number system, as they are not listed on their website. The 4610A is their regular duty compressor, which is still pretty good. The 4610A-H is the heavy duty version. There is also a 4610AC-B which has a heavier duty pressure switch and is black in color, but doesn't have the HD pump. The compressors from them are changing pumps etc., and will be going on sale as they use up their old parts.
> Edit: "A" is for aluminum tanks.
> ...


I saw online someone had made one like that out of a systainer.
Senco is out of business from what I was told.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

m1911 said:


> I saw online someone had made one like that out of a systainer.


At FOG, Festool Owners Group, there was a long thread. 
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/senco-compressor-in-a-systainer/

I thought about building one, but the noise thing, CFM, duty cycle, and weight, is why I just bought a California Air. Damn Contractor Talk has cost me a lot of money 



m1911 said:


> Senco is out of business from what I was told.


Well they are still doing product releases as of April, and their website is still up. :whistling A quick Google search didn't produce anything.
http://www.senco.com/company/press-news


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Peter_C said:


> At FOG, Festool Owners Group, there was a long thread.
> http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/senco-compressor-in-a-systainer/
> 
> I thought about building one, but the noise thing, CFM, duty cycle, and weight, is why I just bought a California Air. Damn Contractor Talk has cost me a lot of money
> ...


Yeah, the guy working at the lumber yard told me Senco was out of business. Who knows...


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## GregB (Jan 8, 2016)

A friend of mine bought a California Air Tools CAT-10020 for use in his airplane hanger. We were both thrilled with it. 
I bought a CAT-6310 when Home Dopey had them on sale for $130 or so and it is a POS. Just horrible. Be careful. Hit or miss.

I have that and my Makita MAC-700 and MAC-2400 at home and the Makitas are just great. I keep a PC-1010 in my truck for small uses. The first one lasted 10 years before being replaced by the current one that is worn out at 2 years. 

At work I have Devilbiss 5HP piston, IR 15hp piston, and 25hp & 50hp screw compressors. All great stuff. I would buy IR in the big stuff if you can't afford Kaiser. I would buy Rolair for the smaller stuff, anything portable and up to 10hp. In my area which is across the country from Rolair, I would probably buy Caisons in the 2-10hp units instead of Rolair.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/cs/company-profile.Senco_Brands_Inc.147c9e32b5ddc1fc.html

"the firm was purchased out of bankruptcy by private equity firm Wynnchurch Capital for $43 million in mid-2009."

I do not believe there is a snowball's chance in hell that a private equity firm will let a brand name with that legacy go.

http://www.wynnchurch.com/portfolio-companies

It might become chinese, like so many other USA brands, but it won't be going away.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/cs/company-profile.Senco_Brands_Inc.147c9e32b5ddc1fc.html
> 
> "the firm was purchased out of bankruptcy by private equity firm Wynnchurch Capital for $43 million in mid-2009."
> 
> ...


So that's what the guy was saying about they are in holdings...


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

m1911 said:


> So that's what the guy was saying about they are in holdings...


could be.

I don't recollect what precipitated them into bankruptcy ( it usually occurs after a company is purchased from the founders, then a young/stupid CEO goes on a buying spree to prop up bad management). I do know they are in the black, and are making non-chinese expansions with market-aligned acquisitions.

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/how-to/growth-strategies/2012/09/will-senco-nail-it.html

"Sencorp, a family-owned business founded in 1951, had filed for bankruptcy reorganization in May 2009, putting hundreds of local jobs at risk. *The business moved the production of power nailers and staplers to China a decade ago, but the bulk of its nails and staples – which account for three-quarters of its revenue – are made in Cincinnati.*

Senco now intends to use acquisitions to grow its annual revenue by 10 percent to 20 percent a year, CEO Ben Johansen said this week in an interview at the company’s Ivy Pointe Boulevard headquarters. Revenue is now almost $200 million, and Senco is profitable, he said. And Wynnchurch, meanwhile, has been very supportive."


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## GregB (Jan 8, 2016)

They wont let it "go" but they WILL probably turn it into complete garbage. I did buy several Senco nail/staple guns a few years ago. Made SURE they were made 10 years before and had been sitting on the shelf.........


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## EDCivilian (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm going to go with the VT20TB from Rolair. Seems to be the most logical way to go. I ordered the California Air on Amazon for $90 shipped after using my points. If the VT20TB doesn't like the cold, then I'll use my California Air in the winter months.

Thank you all for the help! Ordering the Rolair now.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

GregB said:


> They wont let it "go" but they WILL probably turn it into complete garbage. I did buy several Senco nail/staple guns a few years ago. Made SURE they were made 10 years before and had been sitting on the shelf.........


Many of the more recent Senco guns are not very good.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

ok ,still after reading this twice . not sure what my limit is for running one framing gun .how small can i get away with .my old thomas pancake is a 1hp ,weighs 44lb . seemed to do fine running frame gun .read through the calif air different specs and just not sure .be great to get into the 34lbs range with a 3/4hp unit .


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

http://www.rolair.net/air-compressors/spec_pages/hand_carry/VT25BIG.html#specs


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## CAOConstruction (Jan 11, 2016)

Morning Wood said:


> Not sure they are made anymore but I love my Thomas. It is awesome. Mine is getting tongue point of needing a rebuild though. Starts any temp, starts any breaker and cranks air pretty well. My father picked up a small rolair and it is nice. Pretty light and quick recovery. Just run clean synthetic fluid and cold starts shouldnt be a problem.


Docs sells a rebuild kit, and new ones online. Located in Sheboygan Wisconsin. Very good company to deal with


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## Robinsonfam1 (Feb 17, 2011)

I feel almost embarrassed to say it but.....my twin tank had finally started to lag after about 20 years (porter cable). I did a ton of research on a lightweight compressor that had fast recovery. only one name kept coming up unless I went to wheelbarrow style that I did not want.
Harbor freight...oil motor, not the oil free. I think its 5.3 scfm @ 90 psi. 10 Gallon, wheels, weighs only about 50-60#. I have had it for over a year now and its great. It stays in my trailer 99% of the time and I just pull the hoses to where I am going.
Best part: $150. Absolute no brainer for me!


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Robinsonfam1 said:


> I feel almost embarrassed to say it but.....my twin tank had finally started to lag after about 20 years (porter cable). I did a ton of research on a lightweight compressor that had fast recovery. only one name kept coming up unless I went to wheelbarrow style that I did not want.
> Harbor freight...oil motor, not the oil free. I think its 5.3 scfm @ 90 psi. 10 Gallon, wheels, weighs only about 50-60#. I have had it for over a year now and its great. It stays in my trailer 99% of the time and I just pull the hoses to where I am going.
> Best part: $150. Absolute no brainer for me!


Yup, might as well - all the heads nowadays are made inn an asian country anywho.

The last American made one I bought was back in the 80s. Puma brand, single piston. I got ragged on because I bought it from the box store that came before Home Depot, Lowes and Menards - "Builder's Square.

Anyway, it was made in Texas, and lasted a good long time, still pumped when I abandoned it, but leaking oil from all the gasketed areas.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Nov 1, 2015)

Robinsonfam1 said:


> I feel almost embarrassed to say it but.....my twin tank had finally started to lag after about 20 years (porter cable). I did a ton of research on a lightweight compressor that had fast recovery. only one name kept coming up unless I went to wheelbarrow style that I did not want.
> Harbor freight...oil motor, not the oil free. I think its 5.3 scfm @ 90 psi. 10 Gallon, wheels, weighs only about 50-60#. I have had it for over a year now and its great. It stays in my trailer 99% of the time and I just pull the hoses to where I am going.
> Best part: $150. Absolute no brainer for me!


I've had reasonable luck with Harbor Freight tools, I've got their 60 gallon compressor and it has been excellent, over 6 years of near daily use. I bought their 8 gallon oiled compressor that is similar in design to yours and it died the second or third time I used it.


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## Robinsonfam1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Yes HF tools are definitely hit or miss. Fortunately I have bought many. Typically I buy the disposable items that I don't have to count on for daily use. 
Hopefully with some solid maintenance this compressor will last a while. If not....heck I only paid $150 and will have more options in the future!


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Nov 1, 2015)

Robinsonfam1 said:


> Yes HF tools are definitely hit or miss. Fortunately I have bought many. Typically I buy the disposable items that I don't have to count on for daily use.
> Hopefully with some solid maintenance this compressor will last a while. If not....heck I only paid $150 and will have more options in the future!


That's what I generally expect too, typically the bad reviews are from idiots who will use a 3 cfm compressor with a 50% duty cycle to try running a sandblaster that requires 10 cfm. 

I broke that little compressor in properly, then replaced the oil with higher quality stuff, still died right away though. I didn't put any effort into figuring out what went wrong, for all I know it could have just been an improperly tightened screw on the switch. 

I decided it wasn't reliable enough to count on for making money in any case. A single day's lost wages from a compressor going down on you costs more than most smaller compressors anyways, not to mention the headache.

My 60 gallon from them has made me a lot of money though, as has my trailer. I've finally worn out a set of tires with zero issues.


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## EDCivilian (Mar 26, 2012)

Just received a disappointing email from Amazon. Won't be getting the California air compressor from them for the $105. 

Hello,

We're contacting you about order #102-6497244-7824222. We recently discovered an error that caused the following item(s) to be displayed at an incorrect price:

California Air Tools CAT-4610A Ultra Quiet and Oil-Free 1.0 Hp 4.6-Gallon Aluminum Twin Tank Air Compressor

In this case, we're unable to offer this item for the incorrectly posted price. Therefore, we've cancelled your order for this item, and you haven't been charged.

At any given time, despite our best efforts, a small number of the millions of items on our site may be mispriced. We're very sorry for any disappointment this may cause. 

We value your business and hope to see you again soon.

Sincerely,

Customer Service
Amazon.com

Please note: this e-mail was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Well my California Air Tools compressor, that I bought from their Ebay store, showed up today ($139 for the CAT-4610A-H, which is supposed to have a heavier duty motor according to their salesman). Plugged it in and ran it a fair amount today. After lugging around a heavy and LOUD Rol-Air, this compressor is a dream. It is quit and light weight since it has aluminum tanks, plus it has a low current draw so it can be used with an extension cord. I am happy with it. It does run my framing gun, but I wouldn't count on it for a full time framer. Since I needed a blow gun tonight playing/fabricating with plastic, I used the Cal Air instead of my 220volt shop compressor. 

So far I give it a :thumbup:

The only bummer is I use automotive T style air fittings and it comes with the more commonly used M fitting which the majority of contractors use. I have a couple adapters and just plugged one in, but eventually will need to change the fittings. (Seems some reviewers state they broke their compressor piping when changing the fittings. My guess is they didn't hold the piping with pliers while trying to unscrew the air chuck fitting. Doh!)

I already put this photo in the TBA thread, but pictures are worth a thousand words...Yup looks like an air compressor to me!


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...83&sr=8-1&keywords=california+air+tools+2010a
will it run a framing gun . will be crawling under a housing doing siesmic up grade .really do not want a lot of noise down there . compressor will need to run gun for nailing plate down and sheathing . Does any one own one to give some experience of it .


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

JFM constr said:


> http://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...83&sr=8-1&keywords=california+air+tools+2010a
> will it run a framing gun . will be crawling under a housing doing siesmic up grade .really do not want a lot of noise down there . compressor will need to run gun for nailing plate down and sheathing . Does any one own one to give some experience of it .


Ha! I just finished my own homes earthquake retrofit a month or so ago, working on it here and there. The compressor I just bought is as small as I would go for nailing sheathing edge @ 4". The bigger tanks will help but either way you are not going to be able to bang away without a break for the compressor to catch up or it won't sink them. I shot one strip of nails banging them at a reasonable pace, and they all sank just fine, then it stopped sinking them as deep and a couple were well above the surface so I let the compressor catch up.

Plenty of work in NorCal for earthquake retrofitting...like 9 out of 10 of the older houses. Cripple walls, sloped foundations with inadequate bolting, cracking foundations, too few of nails holding the entire home together, and soft stories. Just need an engineering degree...Although the county/city will permit most any earthquake retrofit.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

Peter_C said:


> Ha! I just finished my own homes earthquake retrofit a month or so ago, working on it here and there. The compressor I just bought is as small as I would go for nailing sheathing edge @ 4". The bigger tanks will help but either way you are not going to be able to bang away without a break for the compressor to catch up or it won't sink them. I shot one strip of nails banging them at a reasonable pace, and they all sank just fine, then it stopped sinking them as deep and a couple were well above the surface so I let the compressor catch up.
> 
> Plenty of work in NorCal for earthquake retrofitting...like 9 out of 10 of the older houses. Cripple walls, sloped foundations with inadequate bolting, cracking foundations, too few of nails holding the entire home together, and soft stories. Just need an engineering degree...Although the county/city will permit most any earthquake retrofit.


Great reply - Thankyou


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## Defenestrate (Aug 13, 2015)

EDCivilian said:


> Just received a disappointing email from Amazon. Won't be getting the California air compressor from them for the $105.
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...


Me too. 

Still trying to decide how hard to push Amazon CS. On one hand, "easy come, easy go"; on the other hand, "they frikkin' owe me!"


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## Defenestrate (Aug 13, 2015)

Defenestrate said:


> Me too.
> 
> Still trying to decide how hard to push Amazon CS. On one hand, "easy come, easy go"; on the other hand, "they frikkin' owe me!"


Update: phoned Amazon. (Was harder to find a link for getting to customer service than anything else. "Help" from the bottom of the main page; "Need more help? >> Contact us" from recommended topics; select a past order that was fulfilled by Amazon; fill in a couple of dropdowns, maybe put the cancelled order number in the summary field; select "Phone me now" option.) 

Explained the situation and said (quite bluntly) "I'd like some compensation for the inconvenience." They said, "$10 gift certificate". I said, "Is that your best offer?" They said, "$15." I said "Thank you very much."

Pretty painless. Not  but :thumbup:


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