# Walking off a job...



## ACRbuilder (Jun 30, 2010)

Has anyone ever walked off a job and why?
I have a client who's house I'm building. She's there almost everyday regardless of me telling her not to come unless we have a scheduled meeting. She finds something wrong with everything and throws a fit until I tell her why its not wrong. She calls or emails or texts everyday to ask whats going on today and tomorow and what sthe schedule for next week. Shes costing me so much time that I cant bill her for. Is it worth settling up with her and telling her to find someone else to finish the job?

Normally I wouldnt consider this but shes making my blood pressure and anxiety ski high. And her holding up the job with the budget being stretched thin anyway is gonna end up putting me in the hole after long. 

Please help!!!


----------



## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Sit down with her and have a client to contracotr talk about boundarys and change orders. Take control without being aggressive, exlain why and how and that you are in control. The next step is hit her with change order after change order and explain that because she is slowing the job down it will cost her more money.


----------



## ACRbuilder (Jun 30, 2010)

I had a meeting with her this morning and she left in tears. I'm a natural loud guy and I guess she thought I was yelling at her while trying to explain the budget and timeline is being stretched. I got her to agree to stop coming to the site and that all the texts/emails/calls arent exceptable. My biggest fear is to complete the project and not get my final draw. House is in drywall and all materials have been paid for to finish. Its only one more month but if she complained about the drywall prior to mudding, I cant imagine what shell do once paint goes up. 
Is it worth the risk?


----------



## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Make sure that everything you had in your contract gets done and signed off by building dept. I have a upon substantial completion clause that i use with wackjobs so I don't have to give up a lot to get paid. Call her tomorrow take her out to coffee and just explain that you are there for her and you want to make sure that she is there for you. good luck and let us know the outcome.


----------



## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

I walked off a job before while working as a sub. One that comes to mind is a steep roof in January, in the dark, during a snow storm. GC comes out of the comfy house with his white sneakys on and starts yelling at us for picking up after we framed and sheathed it, but before we finished felting. Mr. Comfy and crew, was up there finishing the roof after that. :thumbsup:

Your situation is different. Your dealing directly with the HO. I'd tread carefully.

I'm assuming its a bid. No one complains about a chatty HO during a T&M job. :thumbup: Customers who make themselves a fixture on bid jobs, are bad news. Can you pick a couple days during the week when you can have scheduled meetings with the HO? Maybe Monday and Thursday? Avoid Fridays, it'll ruin your weekend, if your fortunate enough to have one. 

Don't have her stopping by during scheduled breaks either. I know when I worked for other Contractors, lunch was the favored time. Workers either take an abbreviated lunch, or skipped it all together, until the HO leaves. Then they take longer, unorganized breaks. Plus no one enjoys their baloney sandwich, especially with the HO lurking.

I'd explain to her that any other impromptu meetings that take over 10-15 minutes of your day, you need to charge for as a change order. As they said above, change-order pads are your answer. Have a spot on your pads where you write down the time it takes to generate the changes. You should get paid for that as well.

I'd think twice about walking out. Buy her some bon-bons and just say you get "Passionate about your work sometimes". If you really feel you need to move on, you need to work out an exit plan with the HO first.


----------



## DPCII (Mar 14, 2010)

Have never walked off a job. My nature, and my conscience would not let me. I believe in fulfilling the contractual obligations that I sign for.

So, besides being really anoying and getting under your skin, is the woman in question actually doing anything to violate the terms of the contractual relationship you entered into with her?

Use it as a learning tool on clauses to add/modify to your contract for future jobs.

Picture yourself in front of a potential customer - they like you, they like your ideas, the price is within budget, but they have one small hold up and they hit you with this:

_' We are a little uneasy in signing with you, we heard that you just walked off so and so's job because you simply did not like answering her questions.'_

Your response is...


----------



## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

we almost walked 2 weeks ago, similar situation both her and the husband were around multiple times a day for extended periods, he was fine just her was the problem

got to the point where all the subtrades and our crew didnt want to be there. too many change orders, one minute shed love something that was done an hour later its crap.... we finished the contract portion and told her anything extra she wants or changed call someone else


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Can you refer to some article in your contract that says "butt out"?

This is in my contracts.

The Owner will not assume any liability or responsibility, nor have control over or charge of construction means, methods, techniques, sequences, procedures, or for safety precautions and programs in connection with the project, since these are solely the Contractor’s responsibility.


----------



## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Hey i have the wack job clause too. :blink::laughing::w00t:


----------



## jhammer7 (Nov 19, 2009)

Some great advice here so far. I've had some strange clients in the last several years some of which I wanted to renegotiate. However, one in particular comes to mind just as was described above. Husband would not say much but she would complain and complain. I'd have to stop and explain and sometimes educate, sometimes correct but always respond. 

Turns out she was diabetic and it was very predictable. We have now finished our fourth project and are lining up for the fifth over five years. I get a Christmas card from her every year and I keep a bottle of aspirin nearby whenever we start a project.:thumbsup:


----------



## Cmpletehomeserv (Jan 12, 2010)

I remember when I was doing cabinet work for a very well respected home builder on a pre-paid/spec house... the lady kept griping and griping and as I was standing in the kitchen with them... he took out his checkbook and gave her the deposit back. I LOVED IT! The look on her face... 
She calmed down and a few weeks later had herself a great well built home.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

ACRbuilder said:


> She calls or emails or texts everyday to ask whats going on today and tomorow and what sthe schedule for next week. Shes costing me so much time that I cant bill her for. Is it worth settling up with her and telling her to find someone else to finish the job?!


 
You could destress the situation by doing a little customer training...

I'm sure you recognize her phone number. Start sending her to voicemail. Keep lengthening the amount of time between her messages and when you call her back, keep slowly increasing the time, do the same with her emails... pretty soon she will be trained that emailing or calling you does not mean instant gratification and instead means she gets a response 8 hours later or the next day.

As far as the texting... turn off texting on your phone, its gay.:biggrin:


----------



## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

My decision in such scenarios is directly related to where I stand financially in the project :laughing:

Payment ahead of work? I drop the ultimatum on them by having a meeting, usually in the evening with husband/wife present. This is what you're doing, this is why it's wrong, this is what it's costing me, you're doing yourself a dis-service, if you want me to continue then these are my conditions: ***. Yes or no?

Work ahead of payments? Grin + bear.

I also have a slavish devotion to job tracking/documentation. I'll revisit my documents, cross my T's and dot my I's. That final 10% will probably not come as easy on this one, so I'll put my "job tracking" into over-drive. 

You say you made her cry? Did it sound like an engine blowing? Because that's essentially what that was. The engine blew, the plane is in free fall...GRAB YOUR CHUTE! :thumbup:


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Can you refer to some article in your contract that says "butt out"?
> 
> This is in my contracts.
> 
> The Owner will not assume any liability or responsibility, nor have control over or charge of construction means, methods, techniques, sequences, procedures, or for safety precautions and programs in connection with the project, since these are solely the Contractor’s responsibility.


Thank's..Just stole that and added it to my contract...:thumbup:


----------



## ACRbuilder (Jun 30, 2010)

I have a solid contract. The thing is is that she has nickel and dimed me about everything this entire time. I'm getting the feeling (and so are a few other guys) that she getting low on money and now shes trying to find things to hold things up. The budget for the house was extremely tight to begin with. Holding me up at all could end up costing me money in the long run. If shes bitching about the drywall then what will she do when paint goes up, tiles goes down, kitchen gets installed, etc. Although my contract is very solid, I have no want to go to court over this. My father took a lady 3 years ago over $20K and got $6K with no attorneys fees. 
I'm gonna call a lawyer friend today to ask what the complications will be if I do walk. I'm not worried about the negative press I'll get because most of the jobs I get now are new customers who found me or got referred from one of my many satisfied clients. 

On a side note, I have lost over 30 lbs since starting this job. I not a big guy so that is alot for me. Was 6' 218 when I started. Now down to 185 and my nerves are shot. 

Thanks for all the help so far.


----------



## blu (Jun 5, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> You could destress the situation by doing a little customer training...
> 
> I'm sure you recognize her phone number. Start sending her to voicemail. Keep lengthening the amount of time between her messages and when you call her back, keep slowly increasing the time, do the same with her emails... pretty soon she will be trained that emailing or calling you does not mean instant gratification and instead means she gets a response 8 hours later or the next day.
> 
> As far as the texting... turn off texting on your phone, its gay.:biggrin:


I like this response. Eventually you will not only get her to stop calling you, she will just show up after work in her bikini with ice cold beer and a massage table for him.

Do your job that you are hired for and provide excellent customer service. Use this as a lesson that you have to turn down PIA customers in the future. Its your job to figure out if they are going to be a problem in advance. If you can't figure out how todo that then you are stuck being miserable all the time.


----------



## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

as a sub I've walked out on an endless supply of jobs you name a reason 

I don't need any bs in my life and as soon as the bs gets above my toes I'm gone. Created alot of problems by doing that, but you know..... it's just who I am.

Walking off a job when you are working for a homeowner is a different animal. I usually am polite and tidy things up to a good stopping point, explain what is going on and run. Most of the time I come back and finish other times its a lost cause. Its hard to prescreen customers sometimes but it's necessary.

on a side note I was warned endlessly by many people to stay away from one contractor and another homeowner (two different people) because they are "difficult" well it turned out we were a match made in heaven.


----------



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

You were a "match made in heaven"? 

I don't understand, you married the homeowners contractor? :blink:

Or did you marry them both? That's illegal isn't it. :w00t:


----------



## kris0374 (Jun 27, 2011)

I had a cust like this in March. Started as a countertop job. He called me 63 times one weekend and we hadnt even started yet. I thought several times about letting him pass, but we didn't have a great deal of work so I took the job. It wasnt long after we started that he began demanding I include other work at no charge if I wanted to keep the job. Things like install a new stove, and then he made us install his new range hood (that didnt' fit and we had to retrofit). We put the new countertops in and I could see the finishline. We fabricate our own reverse pressed concrete tops and dont buff them super shiney until all pieces are in. After all the previous schedualing problems I had with him. since he was his own GC on the job he didnt' see the problems with us coming in to install top when the kitchens full of electricians. All their crap on our raw countertops which I specifically told him and his wife not to do. I finally snapped. I told them we're not taking them out to grind them without compensation. I called him later and told him we needed to part ways. I lost about $2500.00 on that job but felt such a relief that I didn't have to deal with him anymore. It was such a simple job. Something we do 50 times a year. This guy made it nonprofitable. 

Just got served friday that hes sueing me for 5 times the price of the job. Thats why contractors really need to orginaize and screen these people just like the BBB. Some people are complete control freaks, abusive, bullying, vendictive jerks. We would do us all a great service we created our own Good Customer system. The guy that says he won his bad customer over, Ive actually had that happen myself. Ive been able to win over most control freaks by telling them how great they are. These people love to be patronized. It was working with this guy for a while, then it teetered and fell off a cliff. I'll let you know how the lawsuit goes.

sorry my spelling sucks

Please help!!![/QUOTE]


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

kris0374 said:


> It wasnt long after we started that he began demanding I include other work at no charge if I wanted to keep the job. Things like install a new stove, and then he made us install his new range hood (that didnt' fit and we had to retrofit).


If you are documented all of this, you will be OK. Suing and winning are two different things.....but, I can tell you when you lost control. The above quote is where you let the jerk take over.


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I think it looks unfavorable if you walk off a job, never do that. 

You have all the tools available in your favor if they don't want to pay, you have a job specific contract and you have lien rights as well as the courts. I know, liens and court are slow, but never be in the wrong on anything and that includes walking off the job.

At a minimum when a customer gets out if control and is no longer fun or easy to work with follow the letter of your contract and complete the scope of work as written, that way they cannot say you didn't fulfill your end of the agreement.

Jay is right, suing and winning are two different things, but when it gets before a third party - the judge - what does the documentation read.

Realize you are probably dealing with I'm guessing less then 2% of the population when you get a customer like this. Most people are reasonable and when asked about minor extras I don't mind throwing them in and spending a hundred bucks or so extra to keep the customer happy and keep my reputation but your guy sounds out of control.

Document, document, document...every job


----------



## kris0374 (Jun 27, 2011)

Chris Johnson said:


> I think it looks unfavorable if you walk off a job, never do that.
> 
> You have all the tools available in your favor if they don't want to pay, you have a job specific contract and you have lien rights as well as the courts. I know, liens and court are slow, but never be in the wrong on anything and that includes walking off the job.
> 
> ...




I never thought Id do it either. But this guy (an ex cop that was ousted off the force) was just too much.


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Oh well that explains it, most troublesome clients according to research, cop, school teacher, general or high ranking armed forces person, all in all people who are not accustomed to people saying 'No' to them


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Add lawyers. And doctors.


----------



## Schmidt & Co (Jun 2, 2008)

joasis said:


> Add lawyers. And doctors.


And engineers. :whistling


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

kris0374 said:


> .............. he didnt' see the problems with us coming in to install top when the kitchens full of electricians. All their crap on our raw countertops which I specifically told him and his wife not to do. ..............



I call shenanigans on this one. There is _no such thing_ as a 'kitchen full of electricians'.

Besides, they *never* use the countertop as a workbench.

:jester:


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

joasis said:


> Add lawyers. And doctors.


I guess I have always had the good ones...no issues with either of them... The engineers well if you get them to look outside of the box at today's modern products


----------



## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I don't believe in walking off jobs, I believe in taking ownership of the problem and solving it.

I do one thing with my larger jobs and home owners really like it. When I'm on a remodel that lasts longer than a couple days I get in the habit of sending them an email each morning around 5am letting them know what my plan is for the day. 

If people don't know what you are doing they start to imagine things and question what your doing, that's how the brain works. By beating them to the punch you not only answer whatthey are thinking but you are preventing them from inventing issues that don't matter. An added bonus is your company looks professional and it gives people a piece of mind that they chose the right contractor. When cilustomers are always asking that sometimes is an indicating they lack trust, and when somebody trusts you they tend not to obsessively question you.

Mike


----------



## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

joasis said:


> Add lawyers. And doctors.


Ex-wife too.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I'd like to add IRS agents to list.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I've had good luck with engineers.

Mike, I couldn't agree more however ...

HO and GC are two different animals. I've never walked from a HO, but have walked two contractors this year.

One was doing woodwork at an apartment complex. Was bid for labor only, he was supposed to have wood delivered already. Told me wood was there. I got help together and show up at the job - no wood. He lied. Gave me some story, and repeated the same thing the next day. I don't like people wasting my time. An oversight is one thing, but he flat out lied.

The other was a painting contractor (former) friend of mine. He tried treating me like his b%$#tsch, and using me as a whipping post to take out his head issues. Nothing is right, he'd yell and scream and act like jerk all day.

He was a friend of 10 years, and I know how stressful it can be so I cut him some slack. He apologized (after I left him on a job to tote and install 20 sq of roof by himself), then repeated. I was packing up on a job paying 680 / day that I needed badly and he cooled off and begged me to stay and finish. I told him I'd finish if he didn't say another word to me and he didn't. I finished and got paid for that one. I was so PO'd that I cut the same piece of base three times too short. He started his crazy BS a few days later while we were hanging out drinking some beer and grilling out. He had always been ok on a personal level, but a total a-hole to work with - then he started his BS so I told him to lose my number.


----------



## CGallagher (Apr 20, 2010)

I had a client like this, and I suspected that they would screw me on the final payment, and guess what - they did. It ended up in court. If I had it to do all over again, I would have sent a letter to Husband and Wife every time they did something that held me up or cost the job more money.


----------



## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

I haven't walked, or felt compelled to, on one yet. Though a few have tried my patience.


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Railman said:


> I'd like to add IRS agents to list.


"I only accept cash" !!

That would be funny.


----------



## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Walked off of one job. By walking off, I mean I signed a dissolution of contract agreement with the HO's which nullified the contract and set up the terms of the contract termination. Let me just say the job was with a doctor, an interior designer, and a schizophrenic wife who was home all day.:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash: My blood pressure rises when I think about that project. The only advice I can give is go with your gut before you sign on the dotted line. I knew something wasn't right with these people but I did the job anyways. Or at least I tried.

But for the OP - from what I understand this lady is a nuisance, and you've already been given some good advice here. Don't walk. Finish the project.


----------



## skarrlette (May 14, 2008)

I am in the contracting business and walked off a job today I gave back the check "see ya" as the customer came running out to my car and started apologizing, and asking me to still do the job, making excuses for her behavior yada, yada, yada. Then asked me to think it over before I say no. I thought it over in two seconds I am not being abused by strangers for a paycheck. I am leaving this business my partner and I moving to another country. My partner who has worked in other counties says he has never seen customers anywhere else like here in the US they make his stomach turn they are such A holes. Its been a nightmare. Granted we started just as the economy began to collapse but the real reason why I am leaving this business itself is the customers and the way this business is set up. HORROR SHOW.

The job is just a pain in the A** from beginning to end. Their is always a problem (mental problem) with every single customer except for for maybe one here and there. I have had some goodies but it doesn't make up for the a holes. No matter how top notch the job is they still B. No matter if you didn't' charge for extra work, no matter if your work is better than the check you get paid. No matter all the work you do behind the scenes, drawings, material quotes, driving to there house that you don't charge for. 99.9% still B.

The sense of entitlement is incredible. And they all think the work is easy. "This is easy isn't it?" Then you do it if its so easy. Its never easy even small jobs become work. 

This woman today started yelling and going nuts and we haven't even started working on her house yet. When I tried to talk to her, she talked over me so I couldn't be heard.

I feel for you guys big time. I really do. I think contractors are treated like s, not respected, and abused. I never knew this till I threw myself into it feet first. I think contractors should be doing credit checks and background checks on customers not the other way around. Everything benefits the homeowner. The law everything. Even with a contract all the money it costs to get a lawyer is more than the money owed half the time. Its a joke. 


I think you guys do a hell of a job doing all the labor, administration, teacher, marketer, and then putting up with the psychological BS. And the multitude of other things that go into a remodel etc (lets not even get into homeowners, pets, and children in the way). I mean its everything but the kitchen sink. You really don't get enough respect or paid enough to do what you do. Good luck to all of you I hope it gets better.


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Thinking out loud here if you decide to walk off a job, which for the record I really disagree with, if you leave a GC hanging over issues a judge may agree with you. However leaving a HO in a lurch and your screwed, your the professional they are the lowly HO who hired you and relied on your experience and you left them fending for themselves, even signing a release if anything happens I'm betting it falls back on you.


----------



## skarrlette (May 14, 2008)

Are you responding to me? Lowly customer this lady was abusive and rude. Secondly I didn't sign a contract with her, nor cashed her check, nor started the job so I am completely in my right to leave her job and she deserved it. There is difference between working it out with someone that deserves it and a total Ahole that needs to be a taught a lesson. I am not going grey of a few thousand dollars. Also I don't sell out for money.


----------



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

skarrlette said:


> Are you responding to me? Lowly customer this lady was abusive and rude. Secondly I didn't sign a contract with her, nor cashed her check, nor started the job so I am completely in my right to leave her job and she deserved it. There is difference between working it out with someone that deserves it and a total Ahole that needs to be a taught a lesson. I am not going grey of a few thousand dollars. Also I don't sell out for money.


Just curious, what country are you moving to and what other countries did you have success in?


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

If u didn't sign a contract then your fine because technically you did not walk off the job....you never had it to begin with


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

skarrlette said:


> Also I don't sell out for money.


While I [think I] understand what you mean by that statement, I feel a need to point out that your diatribe above is far from the typical experience of most contractors. If it was typical, there would be a lot less of us.

But yes, in whatever field you work, you do sell yourself for money. That doesn't mean that you need to compromise your principles, but you do need to provide a perceived value to your client/boss/whatever.

If indeed that's your ongoing experience with working in this field, apparently you don't do so well at that. :thumbsup:


----------

