# Warranty Obligation 2.5 Years After Completion



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> Just wonder if all you witch hunters/primadonnas/Captain Americas actually read what the guy wrote.sounds like there is membrane in the shower where it belongs..another guy wants to do the whole bathroom
> 'Im in camp with Greg24k
> 
> 1 year finish, 10 structural, don't know what the 3 is for....
> ...


I would say it isn't us who didn't read it. Who cares what some other contractor said? The OP didn't say it, the contractor brought in to give an opinion said it.

Here is what we are looking at:

"The tile design was such that the 1x1 tile on top had to be framed with the floor tile coming up the sides of the platform wall. The glass shower partition is notched back 2.5 inches on top of the platform to retain the structural integrity of the glass.* As a result, the exposed grout joint has been worn away by the constant flow of water from the shower head pointing directly at that area*."

This would indicate that once the grout is gone there is no protection, thus NO MEMBRANE. Now who's the "witch hunters/primadonnas/Captain Americas"?

If you are in the camp of Greg and think that caulk is the solution you have NO business installing showers or dealing out advice on the subject. That is just plain ignorance.

Greg, see the above comment. You DO NOT KNOW, if you think that caulk is the solution. Caulk is a hack bandaid.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I also doubt that epoxy grout was used. I don't see how it could be eroded in less than three years. The stuff is tough.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Many years ago ,10 + JLC magazine ran an article addressing new home construction and warranties. The gist of the article warned all builders they had better write a warranty for their homes or suffer the consequences. The consequences were that the vast majority of states "supply" their own warranties if the builder fails to supply / provide one. Boy,you do not even want to go there,basically the article stated the warranties mandated by most states cover everything almost FOREVER !


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Wow ! Time flies,it was 1993,here it is.


http://www.jlconline.com/Images/Business Forum_ New Home Warranties_tcm96-1151623.pdf


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

TNT

I aint getting into this with you..I am in the camp with Greg meaning that all this guy is liable for is to correct the problem and the damage as the result..not what some HO says he has to do because he brought someone else in.
if the time frame for warranty has past, then he really owes the HO nothing.Now it is just morailty/ethics

you do not know what the issue is as there is no picture.

it could be a bad grout joint, bad grout job..it sounds as if this area may be wear the membrane stopped.

I offered no advice as I don't know what the problem is by his explanation.
you certainly read and hear what you want.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I would say it isn't us who didn't read it. Who cares what some other contractor said? The OP didn't say it, the contractor brought in to give an opinion said it.
> 
> Here is what we are looking at:
> 
> ...


You been watching Holmes on Homes to much and obviously you have no clue what you talking about.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> TNT
> 
> I aint getting into this with you..I am in the camp with Greg meaning that all this guy is liable for is to correct the problem and the damage as the result..not what some HO says he has to do because he brought someone else in.
> if the time frame for warranty has past, then he really owes the HO nothing.Now it is just morailty/ethics
> ...


I do know what it is, a failure in the waterproofing. If water comes into contact it should be waterproofed. Like I said before, if the grout fails IT SHOULD NOT LEAK!!! Is that simple enough for ya? Grout is not WATERPROOFING. There is no arguing this.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

greg24k said:


> You been watching Holmes on Homes to much and obviously you have no clue what you talking about.


Please educate me.

You think that caulk is the solution to this problem. Hack!


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

fjn said:


> Many years ago ,10 + JLC magazine ran an article addressing new home construction and warranties. The gist of the article warned all builders they had better write a warranty for their homes or suffer the consequences. The consequences were that the vast majority of states "supply" their own warranties if the builder fails to supply / provide one. Boy,you do not even want to go there,basically the article stated the warranties mandated by most states cover everything almost FOREVER !


EXACTLY. That is why more & more national (and even regional) builders are going to outside warranty companies, and in much the same way, Canada has the Tarion national warranty.

Spell it out, make it clear, MEET your own warranty obligations, and walk away when your done - no more, no less and no exceptions - otherwise, you the builder stay on the hook.

This horsechit about epoxy grout, and 8 mil this and fancy caulk that - is just that - horsechit. I've seen competent work one a number of different ways. Once you've met your warranty obligations - that's it. There's perfection, and then there's reality.

ME, I'd recognize that I'd failed in avoiding a catastrophic warranty misfire, and hire a 3rd party to make repairs. Send out a SOW, have it signed, have the W/O signed by outside contractor and HO, then be done with`it. And I would never step foot in that H/Os door again. That ship done sailed - learn what went wrong, and move on. Which, I think the O/P already has suggested.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

TNT

he clearly says the issue was in the tub platform so I assume there is a jacuzzo tub..he also says the 1 + tiles were "framed " by the floor tiles.

this sounds like the floor tile capped the edge instead of a bull nosing or cap.

now there is a change of planethe tub base was probably plywood and although some back should theorticallly be installed it probably wanst and I have seen 100 tunbs that were simply plywood and tiled over.

now we have an adhesive/thin set issue, change of plane, 1inch tiles..

now how big is the grout joint? maybe sanded was used and needed unsanded?

the grout cracked..then the continual water "eroded" it away.
the water got in.seeped down the tub walls and into the garage..how"s that Sherlock?.

a simple failed joint, caused by expansion or settlement or insufficient adhesive or bond/.loose tile etc

what are the main causes of failed grout?..

its the tub edge that is having the problem.

HO breaking guy Baullz for over 2 years with frivilous issues.Subs don't want to go back yet he sends them because he does care about his name and work..
now he is fed up because the HO gets someone in and Capt America busts through the door stating the whole bathroom must be ripped out..because a grout joint failed and water seeped down.

he never stated the shower leaked..He said the tub platform.

READ PEOPLE READ

Im done
.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Please educate me.
> 
> You think that caulk is the solution to this problem. Hack!


You thinking ripping the bathroom out is? 

First of all you or me didn't see what is going on there. He said there is a crack because the grout got eroded (what ever that mean or what they used to grout that with) anyway, if there is missing grout and water is penetrating that area, you use the color matched caulk and you caulk the area... Of course if there is a gap you can stick your fist in per-say, there is something wrong to begin with. But if there is a regular joint were tile meets another surface, caulking that area is the industry standard.

With that said, the leak could be coming from someplace else... maybe they took a shower and left the door open, maybe the shower faucet cover is lose or not mounted flush against the tile,etc, many things can cause a leak.

A while back I was in someones house they had a leak bellow... a few guys were there and they all couldn't find a leak and they said the shower pan not installed right. 
I did a few simple tests, everything seems to be ok... I ran the shower everything seems to be ok. When I turned off the shower, I was checking things out and I feel a few cold drops hit my head. I look up and the light above the shower is wet and its dripping water. I turn the shower back on, and here is a surprise, one of the holes in the shower head is blocked and water instead of shooting down, its shooting up right into the light fixture, and some how it found its way down. One finger wipe and it solved the problem. So lets not forget... water is the mother of all the f'ups and it finds a way to places we least expect sometimes.

With that said, you be surprised, how many times a simple thing could solve the problem, same things goes to the OP... He is there, he built the house, he should know if the pan was done right or not... or he should know by being there what is causing the leak and what is the best remedy to solve the issue.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Okay let's settle this.

Upon further inspection, *there was a crack in the grout on the top of the tub platform adjacent to the shower*. The tile design was such that the 1x1 tile on top had to be framed with the floor tile coming up the sides of the platform wall. *The glass shower partition is notched back 2.5 inches on top of the platform to retain the structural integrity of the glass. As a result, the exposed grout joint has been worn away by the constant flow of water from the shower head pointing directly at that area.*


jamestrd said:


> TNT
> 
> he clearly says the issue was in the tub platform so I assume there is a jacuzzo tub..he also says the 1 + tiles were "framed " by the floor tiles.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but he said that constant water hitting it caused the grout to erode, so it on the shower side of the tub deck at the glass partition.

But none of that matters. ALL WET SURFACES should be waterproofed. The grout is not WATERPROOFING, so even if the joint fails, IT SHOULD NOT LEAK. The waterproofing controls it.

So the tub deck and all of the shower should be waterproofed prior to tiling. Hell I now waterproof the tub, shower and floor in a bathroom. It also provides crack isolation.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

greg24k said:


> You thinking ripping the bathroom out is?
> 
> First of all you or me didn't see what is going on there. He said there is a crack because the grout got eroded (what ever that mean or what they used to grout that with) anyway, if there is missing grout and water is penetrating that area, you use the color matched caulk and you caulk the area... Of course if there is a gap you can stick your fist in per-say, there is something wrong to begin with. But if there is a regular joint were tile meets another surface, caulking that area is the industry standard.
> 
> ...


So not only do you not read the OP you don't read my posts.

I never said that he should rip out the bathroom. 

I am saying that caulk is never a solution. The shower and tub should have been waterproofed in the first place. If the leak is caused by the grout joint, then he needs to rip out this area and properly waterproof it.

He also said that it was epoxy grout. I can't imagine epoxy grout eroding. If you have ever worked with it you would know why.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

what you believe to be right doent necessarily parallel what is standard
/code etc.,

the bathroom obviously gets inspected.,,,it passed.

I guess we have an issue o fa $200,000 house and $800,000 and more.

costs are costs..build it, sell it and move on.Money talkjs BS walks
there are plans drawn and the builder builds to those specs.

so my guess the real problem lies with the Architect and the Building Inspector.
Case dismissed


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> So not only do you not read the OP you don't read my posts.
> 
> I never said that he should rip out the bathroom.
> 
> ...


sure it is..NEVER..thats just dumb


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> So not only do you not read the OP you don't read my posts.
> 
> I never said that he should rip out the bathroom.
> 
> ...


Where? where did he say that? Read again..you see what I mean? I rest my case..You sir are a douche who argues just to argue and sees and hears what he wants..
Capt America has integrity and dont make sh it up


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> what you believe to be right doent necessarily parallel what is standard
> /code etc.,
> 
> the bathroom obviously gets inspected.,,,it passed.
> ...


It's not what I believe, it's what the majority of real tile setters believe.

Keep thinking that code is good enough.

But think about what you are saying. They built it to code, the grout failed and now it leaks (if that is the source). Spend a few hundred on waterproofing and eliminate the problem.

I am not advocating over building, but just to recommend industry standard. Use a waterproofing membrane before tiling.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> Where? where did he say that? Read again..you see what I mean? I rest my case..You sir are a douche who argues just to argue and sees and hears what he wants..
> Capt America has integrity and dont make sh it up


At least I can admit that I read that wrong. I read eposy instead of exposed. Read it on my phone. And that's why I said it didn't make sense. 

Still doesn't change the fact that you were wrong about where the leak was (not on the edge of the tub), and how to address it.

Maybe you should stick to flooring?

And douche? Really. What are you 15?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> sure it is..NEVER..thats just dumb


What's dumb is to think that caulk is the solution in this situation. What's dumb is taking a comment out of context (which is a leak due to a grout joint), CAULK IS NEVER THE SOLUTION, PERIOD!

I did not say that caulk is never the solution to anything.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have never used caulk in a shower. It's not designed to work in wet areas. It will go moldy in less than 3 months for one. People use it all the time in showers around here though. I guess it's cheaper to caulk the corners than frame it out well. 

from what I read into it there is zero water proofing but if there was it was not done correctly and no grout should just wash out. I have standard grout in my shower with just a hair over 100psi and its like a pressure washer hitting the grout. Not one bit of grout washed out. 

if this things leaking like he says then mold will def be an issue if it has been on going. I would def pull it out if the membrane is not doing its job.


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