# Best trick you learned from an old schooler



## TBFGhost

gdwoodbutcher said:


> I learned that the mark you leave on wood with your hammer is called a donkey track, because only an *** would do it!!!


 

I just learned that now...and I like it:thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc.

I wish I would have paid attention when they said be a lawyer.


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## jchomes

we call the 16 penny nail trick to hold some thing the 20 k year it will make up for a labor and doesnt talk back great trick:thumbsup: marking sheating to rip rough or dry wall hold your tape with thumb on # and pensil on end let er fly, hammer drill 1/4 hole slam two galvy 16 same time to hold plates to concrete. any trick helps production goes in the vault


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## gdwoodbutcher

When fastening 1x or 2x w/adhesive to block or concrete, if you don't have shot or anchors, drill 3/16 hole thru wood into concrete. Nail with either two 8 penny or one 16 penny w/pc tie wire . Holds tight untill adhesive sets. Today, with treated lumber, I suppose chemical would eat nails, but I never had a problem. Only used it interior. I don't think it's a big secret, but, whenever I do it around younger guys, they look stunned. Guess I'm gettin' old.


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## jeffatsquan

gdwoodbutcher said:


> I learned that the mark you leave on wood with your hammer is called a donkey track, because only an *** would do it!!!


 Around here they are called PECKER TRACKS.

Their is a local guy named Dick Prince. 

So now his nick name is (pecker tracks)

Get it dick prints same as pecker tracks


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## Gus Dering

Find a woman that loves to cook

Do your serious drinking at home

Don't put off your oil change

Swing hard in case you hit it


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## john5mt

if you dont have a tapcon but need to attach something to concrete drill a hole in the concrete then take a wedge of wood and slam it in there with your hammer till the hole is full of wood. Then you can screw somthing to it with a wood screw. 


it will hold quite a bit for quite a long time.


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## Scribbles

#1 Burn an inch
#2 how to lay out a perfect oval.


Both from the best carpenter I ever knew, and have the lumps on the back of my head to prove it.


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## send_it_all

Never trust a fart.

Never waste a boner.


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## LEVELBEST

Making a mistake is inevitable.......being able to fix the mistake is skill. If you learn early on that you can fix most of your mistakes you will be a much better carpenter. 

That is not to say go with that attitude that you can screw up and worry about it later.......but rather to not be scared to trust yourself and what you think might be a good idea.(Again, not necessarily meaning a good idea to cut corners)


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## D.Foster

The simple act of making a story stick.
The simple task of making a perfect scribe.:thumbsup:


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## Cole82

When a tapcon strips outand doesn't hold. Take a short piece of solid copper wire anything from 14-10gauge. Slide it in the hole then screw the tapcon back in. Holds tighter than you have ever seen.

Cole


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## Willie T

A thousand things. But right now here are just three pertaining to string:

1. Get another person to push down on the center of a long chalk line.

2. Use two 'offset' blocks and a guage block of the same size when stringing a fascia.

3. Lock your lines to nials with the '5 or 6 twist method', and they will come right off in a half second when you need them to... and not before.


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## Cjeff

Keep your tools organized, easier to spend 5 mins putting them away then 30 looking for them.


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## Gough

Some of them have become second nature, so it's hard to remember. I think I learned to mark with a carat, instead of a line, from my first employer some 40+ years ago.

1. Using mason's line blocks, rather than nails, to string siding courses.

2. Story poles.

3. Coping trim with a disc grinder.


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## TBFGhost

Willie T said:


> 3. Lock your lines to nials with the '5 or 6 twist method', and they will come right off in a half second when you need them to... and not before.


 
Share Please...no one ever taught me anything about that...:sad:


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## Mrmac204

TBFGhost said:


> Share Please...no one ever taught me anything about that...:sad:


yup, i twist 6-7 times, then pull it onto itself. Comes off in a second  I'll let Willie s'plain it to ya, he's better at that than me.

We've sorta done a tricks/methods blog before, but it's always fun and sometimes new stuff shows up.

stripped out holes in a door jamb from a hinge- drill it a little big bigger, then lightly hammer a wood golf tee in. cut it off, and you are good to go.

when measuring corners with a digital measurer- figure out beforehand where your machine is set at. Is it "0" folded up? or "0" out flat? it makes a difference in the number displayed.


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## knucklehead

woodworkbykirk said:


> when toenailing the floor ribbon to the mudsil with a gun, flush up your lumber with the outside edge then drive your cats paw into the sil flush with the ribbon then nail, this will keep the riboon from being drawn in which you would otherwise have to beat back into place


I always just hold it out a little , shoot it . then hit with the hammer til it is flush.


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## William James

"if you want something done right then do it yourself."

"you don't need help, you've got a deadman."

go against the grain in life, but not with wood. 

yeah, "doctors and lawyers and such"


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## Jeff G

I took heed in what an "old timer" once told me - "There's not a single problem in the whole wide world.... that a good, stiff drink.... can't make worse!" :jester:

Seriously, there are so many tips I've picked up throughout the years, but I believe some of the best tips I ever got were; Try and always keep in mind to figure out ways (or pick them up along the way) to work smarter, not harder in everything we do. And never fail to ask questions if you don't fully understand something. 

And never pass the buck when it comes to safety, because it isn't a one person job. Each of us should be responsible for the next person who uses the tools, materials, or equipment we've prepared or used.


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## Rustbucket

I learned more what NOT to do than what TO DO from the guy I started with. The guy was overly medicated and VERY accident prone. Some of the things I learned not to do:

Don't nail your hand to the deck with a framing gun when installing blocking
Don't buy a cheap ladder and over-reach, lunless you care to fall off of it into a rose bush
Don't use the miter gauge and rip fence on a table saw together to make identical cuts. You might lose a finger!
Don't put the rubber no-mar tip on a nail gun with the hose attached and your finger on the trigger!

The list goes on. He was a nice guy, and I did learn a lot. However, on a job he was a subcontractor on, he flew off the handle and had a temper tantrum. He got fired, and I got a new job offer.


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## Warren

Rustbucket said:


> I learned more what NOT to do than what TO DO from the guy I started with. The guy was overly medicated and VERY accident prone. Some of the things I learned not to do:
> 
> Don't nail your hand to the deck with a framing gun when installing blocking
> Don't buy a cheap ladder and over-reach, lunless you care to fall off of it into a rose bush
> Don't use the miter gauge and rip fence on a table saw together to make identical cuts. You might lose a finger!
> Don't put the rubber no-mar tip on a nail gun with the hose attached and your finger on the trigger!
> 
> The list goes on. He was a nice guy, and I did learn a lot. However, on a job he was a subcontractor on, he flew off the handle and had a temper tantrum. He got fired, and I got a new job offer.



And never use an extension ladder that has a rung hook on only one side. You will always worry, what happened to the other rung hook? and what if it happens again?


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## dnconstruction

DeCloud said:


> I am a trim finish carpenter ome pretty useful trick I learned was if a raw piece of finish grade piece of material has an imperfection such as a hammer mark or other indention, is to rub your saliva on it. Within about a half hour the wood will swell and can be lightly sanded afterward leaving no scarring.


I tried this yesterday on a piece of clear pine I f$#@ed up and it works THANKS. I told my buddy that has been around for a while and he didn't believe it till I showed him on a piece of scrap!!!!


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## katoman

dnconstruction said:


> I tried this yesterday on a piece of clear pine I f$#@ed up and it works THANKS. I told my buddy that has been around for a while and he didn't believe it till I showed him on a piece of scrap!!!!


Another way to do this is to dampen a rag, but it over the dent and touch the rag with a hot clothes iron. Works great, but not so good on oak, it's too hard.


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## Jaf

Willie T said:


> Say you want to pull a string tight from where it is fastened 50' away to a board in front of you.
> 
> The first thing you do is drive a 6d or 8d nail in the board at an angle slanting away from the starting location of the string.
> 
> Secondly, you double over the string you have in your hand, making a simple loop.
> 
> Third, still holding the string in the hand closest to the start 50' away, you take your index finger of the other hand and stick it through the loop.
> 
> You twirl your index finger around about a half dozen times, twisting the base of the loop till it looks sort of like a hangman's noose.
> 
> Now you slip that twisted loop off your finger onto the nail.
> 
> Next, with one hand, you pull the long 50' line tight... toward the nail... while at the same time you pull the loose end of the sting coming from the loop in the opposite direction... TOWARD the start and away from the nail........ Both hands are moving in opposite directions at the same time, taking up all the slack and tightening the long line.
> 
> When the long line is as tight as you need it, and your other hand has pulled all the slack out of the twisted loop, you QUICKLY jerk the hand holding the loose end back right past the side of the nail.
> 
> This causes all the twists to slip over each other and bundle up against the slanted nail, locking the loop in place.
> 
> This holds just fine.
> 
> When you want it loose, you grasp the slack end, and snap it back toward the tightened part of the line. The loops un-bundle, and as you let the line slip through your hand, the tension releases, and you can lift the loop right off the nail.
> 
> The string has now returned to normal.
> 
> Only 3 things to remember....
> 
> The nail has to be slanted with the head angling away from the fastened end of the string. 15 - 20 degrees is OK.
> 
> One hand has to be taking up the slack through the loop at the very same time, and in coordination with the other hand pulling the long part of the string tight from where it is fastened way down there. (kind of like tightening your necktie on your neck... one hand pulls up on the knot while the other hand pulls down on the small part of the tie) Think of your neck as being the nail in the board.
> 
> The SNAP back has to be QUICK and FIRM... and you MUST snap back *PAST* the nail, keeping the line tight in your hand. This movement creates the LOCK.
> 
> *************************
> 
> I tried my best to find a video of this knot. But I guess because it is such a simple, simple, simple thing to do in a couple of seconds, no one has bothered to make a video of it.
> 
> Nothing to it at all. Twist the loop, and pull then snap.
> 
> Done, walk away.


Around here, we call it a Mason's knot.


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## galla35

DeCloud said:


> I am a trim finish carpenter ome pretty useful trick I learned was if a raw piece of finish grade piece of material has an imperfection such as a hammer mark or other indention, is to rub your saliva on it. Within about a half hour the wood will swell and can be lightly sanded afterward leaving no scarring.



another little added trick is to give it a very little poke with a knife blade then put a little spit on it just make sure you take your dip out first!:thumbsup:


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## smartcarpie

I was taught to replace big furry chalklines with braided flyline backer for finish work. Makes working to a line way more precise. And change plumb bob lines out to braided too, something like venitian blind cord works well.


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## Elyrain

The only thing that I don't think has been posted is cutting a piece of pvc with either string line or tie wire.


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## bhock

Elyrain said:


> The only thing that I don't think has been posted is cutting a piece of pvc with either string line or tie wire.


Had to resort to that once. Chalk lines work real good a bit more abrasive.


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## blackbear

if you have an improperly installed door that will not stay in a closed or open position, take out one of the pins and give it a whack in the center to slightly bend it. put pin back in and no more swaying.


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## bhock

A dab of painters caulk on a screwhead will keep most screws from falling off bits in hard to reach spots.


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## LEVELBEST

blackbear said:


> if you have an improperly installed door that will not stay in a closed or open position, take out one of the pins and give it a whack in the center to slightly bend it. put pin back in and no more swaying.


No more swaying but LOTS of metal dust starts showing up on the hinges and door trim, lol.


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## displacedtexan

LEVELBEST said:


> No more swaying but LOTS of metal dust starts showing up on the hinges and door trim, lol.


That's why I was taught to bend em with a crescent wrench/channellocks with a rag, or a nail set in the hinge while closing the door.

Never thought of that as a trick, just the way it's done.


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## Tinstaafl

LEVELBEST said:


> No more swaying but LOTS of metal dust starts showing up on the hinges and door trim, lol.


Maybe not dust, but I guarantee those hinges will wind up squeaky. Still a valid trick; just let the HO know he'll need to oil them on occasion. :thumbsup:


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## Worm Drive

mikeswoods said:


> Keep a speed square and a spring clamp at your chop saw.
> 
> When cutting two miters on a piece --Clip the speed square on the first miter --hook your tape measure on the square--and get an accurate measure.



Good one, I forgot all about that trick.


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## LEVELBEST

displacedtexan said:


> That's why I was taught to bend em with a crescent wrench/channellocks with a rag, or a nail set in the hinge while closing the door.
> 
> Never thought of that as a trick, just the way it's done.


I wasn't talking about the hammer making the dust......I was referring to what the hinge pin is gonna do when the hinges started eating into it. Putting three pieces of metal in a bind and then rubbing them against one another repeatedly will do that though.

Not saying I don't use the trick, just making the comment that it would start to wear on the hinge pin.


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## HeartlandContr.

that's not "old school". I do use it a lot though.


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## mudpad

The best thing I learned from an old schooler is that an owner will soon forget about a project being late, but a piece of sh** building is forever.


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## dnconstruction

this has been great so far, I am glad everyone has put their 2 cents in. Now I am writing a book and stealing all your ideas lol jk. Many good tips, I have used about 4 so far in the past week. Now if we could only find a way to get all the tool companies to make products back in the USA!!!


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## LEVELBEST

mudpad said:


> the best thing i learned from an old schooler is that an owner will soon forget about a project being late, but a piece of sh** building is forever.


i like it!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Metro M & L

To get a perfect window mask - Run the legs from the top down, run the tape long then push the tape down against the bottom of the window with a putty knife and rip it off. No more tearing off little pieces of tape to get the corners covered.

When applying water based urethanes, you can toss the old waterbased nap in a bucket of water and use it weeks later. If you're doing floors with some regularity this can save $100.00 a month.

Get the contract signed, get as much money up front as allowed by law, take pictures before during and after. If I'm feeling a little doubtful about getting a final payment from a client I'll include pictures with the final invoice - so they know I have proof the work was done.


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## tyler durden

john5mt said:


> if you dont have a tapcon but need to attach something to concrete drill a hole in the concrete then take a wedge of wood and slam it in there with your hammer till the hole is full of wood. Then you can screw somthing to it with a wood screw.
> 
> 
> it will hold quite a bit for quite a long time.


make sure to use pressure treated


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## Willie T

The company I worked for was contracted to do a polished white concrete exposed 3' high lintel beam throughout a church as a decorative/structural accent. As a new laborer, i sure wasn't looking forward to being the one who was going to have to do all the rubbing and polishing.

The forman must have grinned about this for weeks. When we did the lintel, he had us wrap the insides of the lintel boards with heavy Visqueen. The finished product, after carefully stripping the boards, was amazing The pure white concrete virtually shined! It looked like it was polished marble.

I had to do _some_ work, but very little.

This trick will make regular, grey concrete shine too.


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## Willie T

The DIY Guys already did this.

Check *THIS* out. They get better and better the deeper you read.


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## SAH

Ya know we could really have fun with that thread (LOL)

We will just have to come up with some really cruel and inhumane but still safe enough not to injure them suggestions.

How about how to test a 9 volt battery with your tongue?


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## Willie T

Doing some laminate work and need to join two edges perfectly? For instance, a 45 corner cut where both sides and the diagonal have to fit, all at the same time, with no room for error because the back edge does not overhang?

Well, first 'dry-fit' your back edges till they align just right. Let each side run all the way up into the corner, overlapping one another.

Now, mark the 45 line on the top piece with a pencil line. Slide that piece off, and brush some contact cement across the end of the bottom and along the underside of where you marked for the 45.

Set it aside to dry.

Leaving the second piece lying in place, do the same thing with it... except put the contact cement on the face of the laminate.

When all is dried, put your 'no-contact' spacer strips down on top of the bottom piece *so the contact cement cannot make contact*. (I usually use a clean, round extension cord, looped back and forth, and back and forth for this purpose.)

Fit the top piece back into place over the bottom piece where it was earlier. Make sure all your back edges are up tight against their original walls.

Start sliding the spacers out to let the top piece lower itself down on top of the bottom piece. Tap it firmly into place with a rubber mallet or use a hard roller. Basically, just get the corner glued together.

Now you are ready to put some 3/4" pieces of lumber under the "L" shape you've created so you can slide it out a foot or so.

Mark a pencil line on the 45, then clamp a straight edge back far enough on one side of the line to be able to run a straight-bit router down directly splitting the pencil line.

This will create matching edges for your 45 corner.

Use some LT to separate the two pieces and clean off the surfaces. Dry-fit again, and you should find you have a perfectly matching corner.


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## mudpad

*Driving ground rod with a bottle full of water*

O.K here's one I learned from an old timer sparky that not many people know about. 

To drive a ground rod, get a coke bottle full of water. Jab the ground rod in the dirt to make a depression, and pour about an ounce of water in the hole. Insert ground rod, and start working up and down. When is get hard to move, pull it out and add a little more water. It only takes a little bit of water each time and it only takes a few minutes to drive. A lot less work than using a sledge or post driver, and I have one a few bets with it. Just make sure you got dirt all the way down, hitting a rock is a show stopper.


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## JustaFramer

Pythagorean theorem a2+b2=c2 or C= sq root of a2+b2

And if your hammer handle shrinks put it in a bucket of water overnight.


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## Tom Struble

Willie T said:


> Place the tape measure at an angle across the work piece with the 0 aligned with one edge and another number that divides equally by the number of pieces that you want to divide the piece into on the other edge.
> 
> For example if you have a workpiece that is 1 ½" wide and you want to divide it into two pieces align the 0" and 2" markings with the edges and then scribe a mark at the 1" mark.
> 
> Perfect division every time. Similarly, if you wanted to divide the piece into three equal pieces align the 0" and 6" mark and then scribe marks at the 2" and 4" marks.
> 
> This will probably take some playing with to get the hang of it.


 
you can use a variation of this using story poles inbetween windows when doing siding so you can adjust your courses to have a full pc over the top of the window


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## Double-A

JustaFramer said:


> Pythagorean theorem a2+b2=c2 or C= sq root of a2+b2
> 
> And if your hammer handle shrinks put it in a bucket of water overnight.



I agree with you on the math, but not with putting a hammer head and handle in a bucket of water. The water swells the wood, and being captured by the head as it swells, the cells are crushed. This is fine as long as the handle is soaking, but as it drys, it will be smaller than it was to begin with.

When that happens, you're gonna be flying off the handle and 22 oz. of steel hurtling through the air unaimed is not my idea of safe.

To properly tighten a hammer handle, drive another wedge in it across the growth rings.


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## JustaFramer

Double-A said:


> I agree with you on the math, but not with putting a hammer head and handle in a bucket of water. The water swells the wood, and being captured by the head as it swells, the cells are crushed. This is fine as long as the handle is soaking, but as it drys, it will be smaller than it was to begin with.
> 
> When that happens, you're gonna be flying off the handle and 22 oz. of steel hurtling through the air unaimed is not my idea of safe.
> 
> To properly tighten a hammer handle, drive another wedge in it across the growth rings.


It's a regional thing so to speak. :laughing: By the time you have to soak your hammer and drying time it's already raining buckets. :thumbsup:


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## send_it_all

Don't keep hazardous liquids such as laquer thinner or denatured alcohol in a container that is made for non-hazardous liquids such as an Aqua Fina bottle. Most importantly, if you do store said hazardous liquid in an Aqua Fina bottle, don't keep it near the Aqua Fina Bottle bottle that contains the water you are drinking that day. 

This happened to a glazier on a job site I was working on. I was sitting there eating lunch and heard a dude making noises i didn't know a human could make. He was puking up his toe nails. From the sound, I literally thought someone fell off the roof and impaled himself on a piece of rebar.


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## frankster

When screwing through surfaces such as tile backer or hard woods, use a toilet wax ring and drag the screw threads through the wax. Screws will drive with ease.


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## billy d

Here is one that was passed down to me for cutting half laps in timber IE 4x2.
I use it basically for rough Carpentry work. Take a measure and cut the 2" timber half way through, turn it right over move along 2 or 3 inches and cut it half way through from the other side.
Move the timber so its not supported on the end and hit it with your hammer.

It will break off with a half lap cut in the end, take the next measure and repeat.
So what have we got now, one piece of timber with a half lap,
one piece with two half laps (a spreader) and a half lap already cut in the stock,and in reality all you have done is cut the timber through twice.
billy.


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## Ten Fingers

To remove an old nail with a cats paw, first hit the nail with your hammer to drive it deeper. Yup. It breaks loose the rust.


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## Willie T

billy d said:


> Here is one that was passed down to me for cutting half laps in timber IE 4x2.
> I use it basically for rough Carpentry work. Take a measure and cut the 2" timber half way through, turn it right over move along 2 or 3 inches and cut it half way through from the other side.
> Move the timber so its not supported on the end and hit it with your hammer.
> 
> It will break off with a half lap cut in the end, take the next measure and repeat.
> So what have we got now, one piece of timber with a half lap,
> one piece with two half laps (a spreader) and a half lap already cut in the stock,and in reality all you have done is cut the timber through twice.
> billy.


Huh? :blink:


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## Willie T

frankster said:


> When screwing through surfaces such as tile backer or hard woods, use a toilet wax ring and drag the screw threads through the wax. Screws will drive with ease.


The bar of soap trick found *HERE* is much easier to find and keep handy in your pouch... and it is nowhere near as messy.


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## katoman

smartcarpie said:


> I was taught to replace big furry chalklines with braided flyline backer for finish work. Makes working to a line way more precise. And change plumb bob lines out to braided too, something like venitian blind cord works well.


This works great. The line needs to be "braided dacron" for it to hold the chalk.


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## Chris G

Willie T said:


> Don't have a nail set handy? Don't try to set that nail with the point of a bigger nail; you'll slip off nine times out of ten.
> 
> Instead, solidly grip a headed nail by the shaft, placing the edge of the head over your flush finish nail head, and tap on the other side of the big nail head. The hole will be kind of rectangular, so align it with the grain if you can, and it will be much less noticeable.


Wow, that just brought back some great memories of building a deck with my dad back in the 70's. We set them all like that to avoid hammer marks. I think I was 12. Hadn't remembered that specific time since you brought it up.

Thank You.


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## Tinstaafl

billy d said:


> Take a measure and cut the 2" timber half way through, turn it right over move along 2 or 3 inches and cut it half way through from the other side.
> Move the timber so its not supported on the end and hit it with your hammer.





Willie T said:


> Huh? :blink:


My dad used to do that when I was ten. I had totally forgotten it until Billy brought it up. :thumbsup:


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## Willie T

Thanks, Lunch Man. That makes a little more sense now.


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## algernon

When you ned to snap a chalkline with one hand, twirl the end around your pinky finger, stretch and hold down the string, then grab the middle portion of the string with your thumb and forefinger. Kind of like plucking a guitar string.


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## Sasquatch

One of trick I learned was setting a nail with a curve claw. I no that's probably stupid but it works.


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## ApgarNJ

willie T seems like you are trying to take ones from here and put them in the DIY thread. don't teach those guys too much over there. DIYers are people who are usually too cheap to hire someone professional to do it in the first place. (with some exceptions). I don't feel bad when DIYer's screw things up, they try to take on too much and costs them more money in the long run.


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## Willie T

ApgarNJ said:


> willie T seems like you are trying to take ones from here and put them in the DIY thread. don't teach those guys too much over there. DIYers are people who are usually too cheap to hire someone professional to do it in the first place. (with some exceptions). I don't feel bad when DIYer's screw things up, they try to take on too much and costs them more money in the long run.


Quite the contrary. If you will check out most of the posting dates, you will find I'm bringing many I posted a year ago on DIY to you.


And if you do your own work around your house, guess what? You are a DIYer.


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## basswood

Here is a repeater sled for multiple dados evenly spaced... I'm tired so I won't splain it... the pic should get the idea across:


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## Leo G

I use the same trick but when I do it I use a wide board and cut them and end up with a bunch.


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## basswood

Leo G said:


> I use the same trick but when I do it I use a wide board and cut them and end up with a bunch.


Those are the "wide boards":jester:... they each get ripped into 5/16" grill stock... since I was making such narrow rips, I used up some 1x2... always lots of skinny lumber in the shop waiting to get used.


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## Leo G

Oh..

Wide boards eh? I usually use8 to 10" boards 7 to 8' long.


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## trimchiree

when possible not to measure, instead hold things in place and mark


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## Greg

trimchiree said:


> when possible not to measure, instead hold things in place and mark


Nice one!


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## woodworkbykirk

that if something isnt working, your not yelling the right curse words at it


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## Tom Struble

trimchiree said:


> when possible not to measure, instead hold things in place and mark


 
dam i knew that one


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## Tom Struble

people will always diy its probably how most contractors go into there own business,and what was said about diyers getting in over their head same thing happens to some contractors

Willie is as respected there as he is here,i don't really get the ''its them against us'' attitude when it comes to our potential or actual customers


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## Willie T

_An old man, going a lone highway,_ 
_Came at the evening, cold and gray,_ 
_To a chasm, vast and deep and wide,_ 
_Through which was flowing a sullen tide._ 
_The old man crossed in the twilight dim;_ 
_The sullen stream had no fears for him;_ 
_But he turned when safe on the other side_ 
_And built a bridge to span the tide._ 
_“Old man,” said a fellow pilgrim near,_ 
_“You are wasting strength with building here;_ 
_Your journey will end with the ending day;_ 
_You never again must pass this way;_ 
_You have crossed the chasm, deep and wide—_ 
_Why build you the bridge at the eventide?”_ 
_The builder lifted his old gray head:_ 
_“Good friend, in the path I have come,” he said,_ 
_“There followeth after me today_ 
_A youth whose feet must pass this way._ 
_This chasm that has been naught to me_ 
_To that fair-haired youth may a pitfall be._ 
_He, too, must cross in the twilight dim;_ 
_Good friend, I am building the bridge for him.”_

_ original poem by Will Allen Dromgoole_

It honestly does not hurt nor deprive us to help others. Please don't let yourself fear or despise extending a helping hand. Those "others" are just trying to make the journey too.


----------



## Tinstaafl

I don't know where you find these things, Willie, but... I salute you. :thumbsup:


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## billy d

Thanks for the help with the pics Tin.
While some may find my post gobeldy **** I reread it and it still makes sense to me.
It just goes to show a A picture is worth a thousand words.:thumbsup:


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## Willie T

billy d said:


> Thanks for the help with the pics Tin.
> While some may find my post gobeldy **** I reread it and it still makes sense to me.
> It just goes to show a A picture is worth a thousand words.:thumbsup:


Billy, I apologize if I was too abrupt in my assessment of your post. I didn't see it as "gobble 'd ****", I just got thrown off by the reference to a "Half Lap ".

To me, a lap joint is a carefully cut and dadoed furniture joint. Like this:

(I also use a 90 degree variation on corners.)


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## billy d

No big deal Willie I was actually brought up to call the cut I was talking about a half check but I thought if I use that term no one would know what I was talking about.
As it was only Tin knew what I was talking about and as I said its a joint to be used only in rough carpentry.Because depending on the grain there is no control over where the break comes. billy


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## KDO Contracting

oldfrt said:


> A little trick when working alone and
> hanging joists in an open span is to drive
> a #8 or #10 nail about 1/2" in from one end and bend it parallel to the joist.
> This will hold that end up while you nail the other end.


 
I had to get a 2nd floor done one day my laborer didn't show up for work, so, I came up with a pretty practical way of hanging joist when you're by yourself:

#1: lay out your joist locations
#2: cut a small peice of 3/4" plywood, say 1 1/4" X 6" (make as many as
you need)
#3: screw the peice of plywood to the top of the joist letting it overhang
the edge by about 1 1/2" (do this on both sides of the joist's top)
#4: set the joist in place & the plywood will hold the joist flush with the 
ledger/framing
#5: go ahead & nail your hangers in place & you're ready for subfloor 
decking!


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## Tom Struble

now they got a joist holder thingy type clamp thing...i seen one:thumbsup:


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## billy d

Now here is one that could qualify for old school.This method of picking a shape up was taught to me by an old ships carpenter named George Caldwell.George was 92 years old when I worked with him and if alive today,which I doubt,would be in his mid one hundred and thirty's.
So I do not think George will mind me passing this on.
Now whether George thought of this himself or picked it up from somebody else ,I do not know, but I have never seen this method in a book, but thats not to say some one has not put it in a book.
Knowing what I know now it could be an adaption of an older method of picking up the shape of a plank to be replaced in a wooden boat.
George told me he used it mainly for picking up the shapes of sole boards, bulkheads or deck head panels.

So before I start I am not saying this is the only way to pick up a template or even the best way to pick up a template.

So whats the advantage well some times you can spend just as much time making a template as you would do making the finished piece, so see what you think.

Followings Tins example I have made some pics so it will be clearer,I can only put three pics per post so I apologize for the number of posts and the quality of the pics.


Pic no 1 shows a fictitious stair thread,a winder with a newel cut out of one side that will be covered with one piece of solid timber.

Pic no2 the template a piece of white hardboard with the bass line already marked on it.A point to note is the template is fastened when picking up or laying off if it moves at either stage the whole thing is useless.

Pic no3shows the batons that will be used to pick up the points on the tread


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## billy d

Pic no4 shows picking up of the first point.

pic no5 shows picking up of the corner point

pic no6 How the points are recorded on the template with a pencil line down one side of the baton and the angeled cut on the end.By adding information on the template it makes life easy when laying off.


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## billy d

Pic No 7 shows the small baton being used notice the different raking cuts in the batons.
This is so at no time when laying off the wrong baton can be used on the wrong marks.

Pic No8shows the left point being picked up onto the template.

Pic No 9 Because I did not really want two daft pieces of ply the same shape I tacked the template to the bench and then placed the batons on the template and layed the points off on the bench.


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## billy d

Pic 10 shows the points joined up on the bench.

Pic 11 and 12 The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

So why not try it, take it kick it about,shove it and pull it till you get it to work.

If just one guy gets it,the posts I have made will have been worth while.
Just one more tool to put in the tool box and drag it out when you think it will serve you,and if you do use it think on George. billy:thumbsup:


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## Cjeff

I have heard that referred to as 'Tick stick' or 'Tick Sticking'

Never really understood it before, thanks for the detailed pictures.


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## Willie T

Click Here (It's the 9th one down) to see a super simple way to make templates. Most of the countertop people I know use this method unless they go some "high-Tech" route.

Fast, quick, easy, cheap.


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## SC sawdaddy

Cut out top half of door jambs on the bottom plates on walls while they're still laying on the floor before you stand them up. Makes for a straighter quicker cut when you finish cutting them with the saw-zall.

I'll take a stab at explaining the carpenters knot if theres still some confusion about it.

Make a loop with the string forefinger through the loop. Twist the loop around six or seven times. Slide the loop over the nail on the batter board. When you slide your finger out. Before you tighten the knot pull as much slack out of the string line as possible while pulling the knot tight.

Its a great way to get a good tight line but its hard to explain without a visual.

Heres another one taught to me by an old schooler, its dangerous but effective.

Cut a wedge to go behind the guard of your skill saw when cutting rafter tails. I still do this when I'm working by myself but I'm very conscious of where the blade is. Don't put the saw down with the guard wedged back. And don't show it to a rookie.


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## Birch

*For Framers*

I carry the saw guard wedge in my pouch for my personal use. I never leave it in the saw; I always remove it after cutting and prior to setting the saw down. I also only use it for specific tasks that are performed comfortably on horses such as cutting stairs and rafters. I don’t approve of it as a standard practice and have never found it necessary for square cuts or sheathing cuts. 

When making numerous repeat cuts, I was taught to hold the saw switch on instead of pulling the trigger for every cut. Prolongs switch life and brushes are cheaper and easier to replace. I stock both for repairs.

Ole “Hans” also taught me a neat framer's ‘nail set’ trick. Hold the 16D headed nail down with your fingers laying flat against the work piece with the head across the nail to be set, smack the nail head just hard enough to set the nail without imprinting the side of the nail. This will provide a slightly elongate set mark so it is nice if you can line the nail head up with the grain. They hide with putty nicely too and also work very well for occasionally setting headed framing nails.


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## BillD

This is a great thread. It is funny how many of these things you forget over time.

An old guy I used to work with taught me to use old venetian blinds as spacers when doing laminate work. They are very flexible and durable as well. The newer vinyl blinds work pretty well also but I like the old metal ones the best.




MetalBender said:


> I keep both ends of my pencil sharpened so I never have the wrong end.


I keep the sharp end of my pencil down in my pouch so I don't get stuck with it when I bend over.

I also keep my square dogs screwed tightly onto one side of my pouch.

Bill


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## Ashcon

If you are running base down the stringer and don't know the angles. Mark a plumb line on the wall anywhere on the stringer cut a scrap to match the pitch and the plumb line. This is the pitch of the stairs, usually around 37 to 41 deg. 
The angles for the top of the stair is half of the stringer angle. Example stringer angle is 38 deg. half the angle is 19 deg. the bottom cuts will be 45deg. - 19 deg. in this example or 26 deg.
Don't know why this works but the relationship is always the same.

Hope it is some what clear.
Try it the next time you are running base or scotia down aflight of stairs.:clap:


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## oldfrt

When working alone putting sheathing on a 
steeper pitched roof,or even when doing
drywall you can use short 2"x4"pieces of ply
nailed/screwed below the work area to hold the sheet in place.


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## Tinstaafl

billy d said:


> If just one guy gets it,the posts I have made will have been worth while.


I get it. Can I come work with you? :notworthy


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## boman47k

A length of 2x4 with a piece of angle on the end for a lip is useful if hanging exterior sheathing by yourself. Tack the lipless end to an area out of the field of the piece you are installing. Set the mat on the lip and position into place to fasten. Takes a little getting used to but, it can help you get the mat in position and help hold it in position long enough to get a few fasteners in it. Then let the 2x swing back out of the way while you finish fastening the field.

Better if you add a piece on the lipless end to match or surpass the thickness of the sheathing you are working with.


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## Cjeff

boman47k said:


> A length of 2x4 with a piece of angle on the end for a lip is useful if hanging exterior sheathing by yourself. Tack the lipless end to an area out of the field of the piece you are installing. Set the mat on the lip and position into place to fasten. Takes a little getting used to but, it can help you get the mat in position and help hold it in position long enough to get a few fasteners in it. Then let the 2x swing back out of the way while you finish fastening the field.
> 
> Better if you add a piece on the lipless end to match or surpass the thickness of the sheathing you are working with.


I am not quite visualizing this.


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## boman47k

The bottom of the 2x has a lip to hold the sheathing. It can be a piece of angle iron attached to the end of the board. The other end of the 2x can also have a piece added to increase the thinckness to a little thicker than the mat/sheathing you are are working with. Nail that end to the next stud outside of the sheathing field. This will allow the deadman arm to swivel toward and away from the area you need the sheathing. THe sheathing sits on the angle iron at the bottom of the 2x. This can help you place and hold the sheathing in place until you can get enough fasteners in it to hold it temp without the 2x support. The angle iron lip can be placed on the edge of the mat or more toward the middle of the bottom to help balance it and hold it in place.

I wish I had a pic, it is pretty simple. Kind of works like an extra set of arms/hands.
The angle iron lip can be attached to swivel also. This will not hold the mat in place by itself. You still have to hold it with one hand/elbow/knee sort of until you get a fastener or two in it.

It really helped mea couple of times hanging 9' masonite, especially when the bottom was maybe 3 feet off the ground. Start a nail ot two, stand on the ground, lift the sheet to the wall, place it on my 2x helper, postion into place, bury my prestarted nails, add a few more, swing the 2x out of the way and finish nailing.


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## Ten Fingers

Use a couple H-clips to keep your wall sheathing from getting away.


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## rburke65

Ashcon....That is most interesting. Has to have it's origins in Geometry and/or Trig. I would think. Thanks for that.


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## Tom Struble

''struble'' next time ask your self ''are you sure you wanna look in that spackle bucket?''


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## ApgarNJ

boman47k said:


> The bottom of the 2x has a lip to hold the sheathing. It can be a piece of angle iron attached to the end of the board. The other end of the 2x can also have a piece added to increase the thinckness to a little thicker than the mat/sheathing you are are working with. Nail that end to the next stud outside of the sheathing field. This will allow the deadman arm to swivel toward and away from the area you need the sheathing. THe sheathing sits on the angle iron at the bottom of the 2x. This can help you place and hold the sheathing in place until you can get enough fasteners in it to hold it temp without the 2x support. The angle iron lip can be placed on the edge of the mat or more toward the middle of the bottom to help balance it and hold it in place.
> 
> I wish I had a pic, it is pretty simple. Kind of works like an extra set of arms/hands.
> The angle iron lip can be attached to swivel also. This will not hold the mat in place by itself. You still have to hold it with one hand/elbow/knee sort of until you get a fastener or two in it.
> 
> It really helped mea couple of times hanging 9' masonite, especially when the bottom was maybe 3 feet off the ground. Start a nail ot two, stand on the ground, lift the sheet to the wall, place it on my 2x helper, postion into place, bury my prestarted nails, add a few more, swing the 2x out of the way and finish nailing.


not quite sure what you mean exactly but for sheathing, we normally snap a line for the first row, or you can go and put a bunch of hand 10 commons between the mudsill and the foundation and rest your first row on that. pull them out and they make the spacing for the next row of sheathing for the gap (code)


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## Warren

Ten Fingers said:


> Use a couple H-clips to keep your wall sheathing from getting away.


I am guessing this is sheathing with the walls up? I like to drive a spike or two at the bottom into the plate or band and rest the plywood on these. Nail it off, then remove the spikes. Never thought of using an H clip but sometimes it can be dirricult and I don't always have one on me.


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## Cjeff

I find a couple of nails works easiest and best for me too.

Need a compass 8" diameter? Cut a lath (or ply or whatever) about 1 - 2 inches wide and 6 - 8 inch long. Sink a small nail through it 4 inches from the end (the radius of the circle you want) and put it in the center of your hole to be and draw away.

For a rough circle compass such as a vent stack or toilet hole use a sawsall blade. the teeth give you a large range of adjustment.


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## boman47k

In my case, I let the siding drop below the sole plate. I couldn't rest the siding on a couple of nails in the bottom plate.


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## ApgarNJ

boman47k said:


> In my case, I let the siding drop below the sole plate. I couldn't rest the siding on a couple of nails in the bottom plate.


i thought they were talking about sheathing?


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## boman47k

Sorry, I was using the term interchangeably when I posted the tip. My bad.


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## Ashcon

rburke65 said:


> Ashcon....That is most interesting. Has to have it's origins in Geometry and/or Trig. I would think. Thanks for that.


I'm glad to know that it could help! I learned it from another trim carpenter who is highly skilled with stairs and railings. :thumbsup: He has taught me a great deal about installing rails.:clap:
He also showed me a way to cope an inside 22.5 deg angle instead of mitering them. It is difficult to explain but if I can take a picture I will post it.


----------



## LEVELBEST

Ashcon said:


> I'm glad to know that it could help! I learned it from another trim carpenter who is highly skilled with stairs and railings. :thumbsup: He has taught me a great deal about installing rails.:clap:
> *He also showed me a way to cope an inside 22.5 deg angle instead of mitering them. It is difficult to explain but if I can take a picture I will post it.*


Please, do tell!


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## Ashcon

Here are the pics for the base down the stringer and the inside 45 deg cope. |Sorry I stated it as a 22.5 deg cope earlier. The cut on the saw is a 22.5 deg.


----------



## Ashcon

here are some more pics


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## Ashcon

And some more
The last picture is the start of the inside 45 cope


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## Ashcon

This joint is started by extending the first piece past the corner, in this example it was 46 deg. The next piece is measured to the center of the corner. This will be your short point distance.
The saw should be set similar to cutting a standard cope except that the saw is set at 22.5 deg instead of 45 deg.







I flip the piece and back bevel as much of the waste as possible with the saw set at 50 deg. This is a deep cope! It works best if your coping saw blade is set at 90 deg to the frame.


----------



## Ashcon

If you do it all correctly it will look like a perfect miter with out all of the fussing around trying to figure what angle will make a nice tight joint.


----------



## Ashcon

Hope that my explaination helps. It is a joint that takes some practice, but the results are worth the effort. There are still some cases where I will still just miter the inside corner. If the pieces are small or I am not at the top of my game that day:sad:. Good luck:thumbsup:


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## mikeybobo

1. always keep a role of toilet paper in your truck for when you are in a jam

2. when working with really out of square corners in older homes like plastered walls, ya know the ones i'm talking about when doing crown..... use a simple slide protractor, gives you the exact angle of the wall, then just divide in half and boom. I cant tell you how many times I was working in old homes around me a lot of old colonial homes with some pretty shady plaster jobs and out of square walls and I use to just cut two pieces and keep adjusting to find the angle. protractor, slap it in there and done in 2 minutes.

3. hanging crown by yourself, find where the bottom is located on the wall, drive a finish nail about 1/8" above it and it holds the end of the crown for you while you nail the other end, then when you get there drive it all the way in and it covers.


----------



## Doubleoh7

tyler durden said:


> make sure to use pressure treated


 
If you dooooo.........

Don't forget a coated or stainless steel screw.:thumbup:


----------



## Sasquatch

Heres one, in order to keep termites out, they would put steel coil that was bent or broke to fit the dimensions of the foundation then struck lines and plated it. Anybody else ever done that? I have done that twice since I have worked here but the boss said use to do it all the time back in the old day. Now only do it only at home owner's request.


----------



## smartcarpie

"An old guy I used to work with taught me to use old venetian blinds as spacers when doing laminate work. They are very flexible and durable as well. The newer vinyl blinds work pretty well also but I like the old metal ones the best."

One of my mentors taught me to use an extension cord laid down back and forth across the substrate/adhesive instead of the slats. Lay your laminate down and start pulling on the end when your ready to go. The adhesive won't stick to the cord. Laid a laminate countertop today so I thought of it to post. It really does work beautifully. 

Plus you don't have to remember to bring the blind slats!


----------



## NHNailbangah

The first guy I ever worked for, back in 1995 told me to keep my mouth shut and your ears open, and you just might learn something.

That one piece of advise did me well in my early construction years, allowing me to learn a few trick along the way.


----------



## loneframer

Ashcon said:


> If you are running base down the stringer and don't know the angles. Mark a plumb line on the wall anywhere on the stringer cut a scrap to match the pitch and the plumb line. This is the pitch of the stairs, usually around 37 to 41 deg.
> The angles for the top of the stair is half of the stringer angle. Example stringer angle is 38 deg. half the angle is 19 deg. the bottom cuts will be 45deg. - 19 deg. in this example or 26 deg.
> *Don't know why this works but the relationship is always the same.
> *
> Hope it is some what clear.
> Try it the next time you are running base or scotia down aflight of stairs.:clap:


Add up all the angles. 90 degrees every time, unless something's out of level or plumb. Top is 38, bottom is 52. Half of each is the miter angle.

Great tip with the plumb line to match the angle.:thumbsup:


----------



## Willie T

NHNailbangah said:


> The first guy I ever worked for, back in 1995 told me to keep my mouth shut and your ears open, and you just might learn something.
> 
> That one piece of advise did me well in my early construction years, allowing me to learn a few trick along the way.


"Way back" in 1995. :laughing: I can type that now that I've gotten back off the floor, laughing.


----------



## NHNailbangah

Willie T said:


> "Way back" in 1995. :laughing: I can type that now that I've gotten back off the floor, laughing.




Sorry about that, what I meant was 1985, the year I graduated high school, and started on a framing crew as a "nailbanger" read as clueless kid

I wish it was 95' then I'd only be 33 not 43. :furious: You know the old saying" If I knew then, what I know now"

Does sound pretty funny reading it :laughing: 

Glad I could give you a chuckle this morning.:laughing:


----------



## Willie T

"Way back" in '60 when I drove my first serious nails, I was told to save all of the nails that came out of my pouch with the heads on the wrong end. "Don't throw them away.", they said.
That was because they were for the other wall, behind me.


----------



## Warren

Willie T said:


> "Way back" in '60 when I drove my first serious nails, I was told to save all of the nails that came out of my pouch with the heads on the wrong end. "Don't throw them away.", they said.
> That was because they were for the other wall, behind me.


Willie, I always learned that from a story about the two roofers from West Virginia. They are hand bangin away on the roof, and one of them notices the other one taking each nail out of his pouch, looking at it, and then either nailing it in or tossing it out. He yells, "Hey man, what are you doin?" The other one pulls a nail from his pouch and says "Look, its upside down!" So he tosses it out. The other guy responds, "Well heck don't throw em out, we can use them on the ceiling!!"


----------



## Willie T

Well, it's sure saved me a lot of money in nails, over the years. :thumbsup:


----------



## erikm

Lots of useful tricks here.
Trying to think of one I can add here
But after building and learning for the past 40 years/I can't remmember where I picked up some thing from an old timer/but I do learn alot from the pro's out there/even to this day.


----------



## SK Remodeling

No one mentioned why the end of a tape is loose.:laughing:

Always cut away from yourself.

Be on time.

what a board foot is.

Add dishsoap in mud.

Pry nails side ways with the hammer for better leverage.


Not oldschool ...but when doing kitchen remodels rip pieces of 1/2" plywood about 4" wide. Fasten them to the furring or studs at the height of your cabinets. then drywall up to and above the strips. Now you dont have to find studs and your cabinet install is a lot easier and neater.


I told an oldtimer my wife was pissed off at me and we were fighting. His advice was "Do you try to pet a dog when it's growling?" made a lot of sence.


----------



## Leo G

It is against fire code here to do something like that. You would need to put blocking from stud to stud and sheetrock over it to get the same result and still conform to fire code.


----------



## rock-it man

Need to lay out an odd angled wall? 13 degrees? 21 degrees?
52 3/8 is the radius for a 360" circle. Strike an arch using that measurement, and every 1" incriment is good for 1 degree.


----------



## Willie T

rock-it man said:


> Need to lay out an odd angled wall? 13 degrees? 21 degrees?
> 52 3/8 is the radius for a 360" circle. Strike an arch using that measurement, and every 1" incriment is good for 1 degree.


I had never tried this. So I laid it out on CAD. 52 3/8 seemed to come up a sixteenth short on a straight line, point-to-point measurement. Maybe I was supposed to be measuring along the curve of the circle?

I needed to expand the radius to 56" before a straight line, point-to-point measurement equaled 1 inch.

If I'm doing something wrong here, please help me out. This sounds like a very handy tip that I can see many people using. But I don't want to be doing it wrong.

I suspect that I need to, instead of taking a straight line reading, be measuring along the curved line of the arc. That seems logical.


----------



## Willie T

sk071077 said:


> *No one mentioned why the end of a tape is loose.:laughing:*
> 
> Always cut away from yourself.
> 
> Be on time.
> 
> what a board foot is.
> 
> Add dishsoap in mud.
> 
> Pry nails side ways with the hammer for better leverage.
> 
> 
> Not oldschool ...but when doing kitchen remodels rip pieces of 1/2" plywood about 4" wide. Fasten them to the furring or studs at the height of your cabinets. then drywall up to and above the strips. Now you dont have to find studs and your cabinet install is a lot easier and neater.
> 
> 
> I told an oldtimer my wife was pissed off at me and we were fighting. His advice was "Do you try to pet a dog when it's growling?" made a lot of sence.


Your tape tip is loose too? I fixed mine. Just soldered it tight. :w00t:


----------



## Leo G

I don't think he was trying to measure to the thousandth of a degree Willie. If it is off by 1/16" over a 354.25" (approx) circumference I would call that good enough for 99.9% of the work we do in construction.


----------



## erikm

Willie T said:


> Your tape tip is loose too? I fixed mine. Just soldered it tight. :w00t:


 
I may be going out on a limb here but I reckon the end of that tape is loose cause if you butt the fu/cker up to get a measurement it tkes into account the thickness of the hook...as if fellas:clap:


----------



## Willie T

erikm said:


> I may be going out on a limb here but I reckon the end of that tape is loose cause if you butt the fu/cker up to get a measurement it tkes into account the thickness of the hook...as if fellas:clap:


You mean now I gotta UNsolder it? Bummer! :furious:


----------



## Willie T

Leo G said:


> I don't think he was trying to measure to the thousandth of a degree Willie. If it is off by 1/16" over a 354.25" (approx) circumference I would call that good enough for 99.9% of the work we do in construction.


Yeah, I know it sounds a little nit-picky. But a half a degree in ten feet makes ya more than an inch off. That's quite a bit, even in framing. (Yes, I know a sixteenth is not as bad as a half a degree.)

I was just suggesting that people with the technical capability, check the accuracy of that radius before using it. 52 3/8 might be the perfect number, but if not... 

So why not be dead on to begin with? We often already make enough errors with our wide pencil marks. No need to possibly magnify it.

**********************************
NOTE: I just checked this method in the real world. It seems to contain a potential measuring flaw that could be quite serious... and will become moreso as the degrees get larger.

Measured straight, (point to point), as you would with a tape, you will end up with a substantially greater angle than a curved measurement would produce. In other words, you cannot just measure with your tape and be accurate. These measurements need to carefully follow the curve of the circumference.... kind of difficult to do with a relatively stiff metal tape.

10'' straight across the arc radius, will give you closer to 10.5 degrees than it will ten.

Try it, and you'll see what I mean. Perhaps not a big deal at 10 degrees (half a degree one way or another, who cares?) But if you were trying to layout a larger degree like 50 or 60, (depending upon from which way you are calculating) you could be off a lot more than might be acceptable.

And you might never figure out why if you did not realize that straight line measuring will not work with this method.

It will, however, probably work just fine if you carefully measure right along the curve of the arc....... (providing you have verified that the radius number is accurate for 1 inch to be the working factor.) I haven't verified it, but it looks like the original 52 3/8 might be fine..... but only if following the curve for your measurements.


----------



## rock-it man

)Ikes sorry guys, dropped that last night, then didn't check it till now! I forgot to mention that after you strike your arc, you need to measure along the arc and make a tick every inch. Every tick accounts to a degree. Point to point defiantly will not work.
Sorry for the confusion!


----------



## Willie T

Some of the kids coming in here for advice might now be getting an inkling of why I repeat and repeat... "Question".... "question"... "question", and "question some more". Never accept anything at face value until you are content you have verified it, and are satisfied with your answer.


----------



## Old Timer

As an old timer myself, here is a few tips I've used over the years. Buy a new chalk box and put baby powder in it for interior "chalk lines". You can remove the residue and not leave a mark. Also for snapping lines acoss a building for floor joists, trusses, shingles, etc., tie two ends of two chalk together, have one person reel their's in until out of chalk and then have the other person reel theirs in and repeat. A new toilet wax ring works great to grease screws and is cheap. To get a perfect measurement use two pieces of scrap wood laid together, slide each out until each piece touches and place a witness mark across both pieces.


----------



## skyhook

Old Timer reminded me.
To get an inside measurement, start at one side, measure in to some nice round number like 10 and mark it, turn the tape around, measure to the mark and add the round number (10).


----------



## SK Remodeling

Old Timer said:


> To get a perfect measurement use two pieces of scrap wood laid together, slide each out until each piece touches and place a witness mark across both pieces.


 
The guy who taught me this called it "two stickin'". I never understood what was so great about it. I think it was invented before they had tape measures:laughing:


----------



## Leo G

When measuring to multiple points such as windows and door cases, like I do for cabinet measurements. Always measure from one corner, a reference wall. That way you don't get measurements that don't add up.


----------



## genecarp

Dont rush around like a A-Hole, set the job up the right way, don't rush the setup and think the faster i start the sooner i will get done. Set up is everything, if you set up correctly, your production goes way up, GMOD


----------



## boman47k

genecarp said:


> Dont rush around like a A-Hole, set the job up the right way, don't rush the setup and think the faster i start the sooner i will get done. Set up is everything, if you set up correctly, your production goes way up, GMOD


 
Organization! So true and also one of my weaknesses.

Some are naturals. I had 25 rocking horses to do once years ago. Let my wife help me. I looked over at her and she had things arranged like a pro where she could reach everything she needed for what she was doing. I was somewhat surprised. But when it comes to getting things done, she is fairly well organized and a go getter.


----------



## basswood

katoman said:


> I'm an oldtimer, and today I learned a new trick from a young guy.
> 
> Typically, I use electrical wire and a wood screw to fasten to concrete, instead of tapcons (too expensive)
> 
> This younger fellow has more commercial experience, and he used tie wire and double headed nails. Holds fine, and is really cheap. :thumbup:
> 
> This was for form work, for a permanent connection use single headed common nails.


Just a heads-up on stuffing copper and steel screws or nails in the same hole... Concrete and any masonry--especially near, at, or below grade--is best thought of as a dense sponge. It will wick some moisture in and copper and steel together with some moisture will produce galvanic corrosion... so that nail and copper wire that holds so well could easily fail in the future.

Not a big deal in the form work, or if you use PL Premium and the fasteners just have to hold 'til the glue kicks.


----------



## rich9112

*Alternative*

I use water line for evaporative coolers. It is like $2 for 100' and is perfect for 6/32 machine screws (for plugs & switches) it compresses nicely so you just cut it a bit long and squish it to the right length as you tighten the screw. 

What I learned from an old-timer: The difference between a tradesman and a 'good' tradesman is that a 'good' tradesman knows how to fix mistakes.
:whistling 




TimelessQuality said:


> I had a sparky show me his trick for this...
> 
> 
> When doing re-work, he kept some aquarium airline tubing in his pouch...
> 
> snip to length bushings:thumbsup:


----------



## Willie T

genecarp said:


> Dont rush around like a A-Hole, set the job up the right way, don't rush the setup and think the faster i start the sooner i will get done. Set up is everything, if you set up correctly, your production goes way up, GMOD


Added to that might be..... visualize what you're working toward. Think the WHOLE job through to completion before you begin working.


----------



## Metro M & L

rich9112 said:


> I use water line for evaporative coolers. It is like $2 for 100' and is perfect for 6/32 machine screws (for plugs & switches) it compresses nicely so you just cut it a bit long and squish it to the right length as you tighten the screw.
> 
> What I learned from an old-timer: The difference between a tradesman and a 'good' tradesman is that a 'good' tradesman knows how to fix mistakes.
> :whistling


I think the general progression is -

In a hurry - make mistakes

In a hurry - make mistakes - Already made that mistake so I know how to fix it.

Research - Think ahead - don't make mistakes


----------



## sawdust nazi

"I feel sorry for people that dont drink, because when they wake up thats as good as there gonna feel all day".:thumbup:


----------



## skyhook

sawdust nazi said:


> "I feel sorry for people that dont drink, because when they wake up thats as good as there gonna feel all day".:thumbup:


It beats waking up with a hangover.
:thumbsup:​


----------



## sledgehammer 20

*Wax*

A simple trick for stubborn nails, since I only use wooden handle hammers I drill a quarter inch hole in bottom of handle and fill with hot Paraffin (Gulf wax), it will harden some as it cools and when you need to doctor up a nail just push into your wax


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## Willie T

sledgehammer 20 said:


> A simple trick for stubborn nails, since I only use wooden handle hammers I drill a quarter inch hole in bottom of handle and fill with hot Paraffin (Gulf wax), it will harden some as it cools and when you need to doctor up a nail just push into your wax


Very clever!


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## woodman53

sawdust nazi said:


> "I feel sorry for people that dont drink, because when they wake up thats as good as there gonna feel all day".:thumbup:


 not true 
played sports? after a run or a game ,,thats when you feel the best ,,the oxigen high,,, there is no comparison and guess what its freeeeeeeeeeeeeee:clap:


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## covaltleveling

Um... Dull the nail. So old you already know

:thumbsup:


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## treylortrache

*Learned this one from a young kid the other day....*

Made my mark on the board, scribed a straight line with a square and noticing my dull wide pencil mark, gave it to my young saw man and told him to leave a bit of pencil mark on the cut edge. Well he cuts the line completely off with the chop saw and I see him rubbing the pencil lead along the cut edge before he hands it back to me and says.."Here ya go boss".


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## Leo G

In this case your young fella was correct. As long as you were scribing the line off the square on the remove side of the board.

But I like the humor in the guys response :laughing:


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## treylortrache

*Great thread.*

I just joined this site and finished reading every post here. Great tips shared by all. I knew a lot of 'em, had forgotten some of 'em, and learned some new ones. I haven't much to add but will expound on some. May seem elementary to most of you but dang, there were a few guys that didn't know how to run a string line tight.

The 6-8-10 square triangle works with any multiple of 3-4-5, in inches, feet, or kilometers. Pythagereom theorem.

Didn't see the oval with two nails and string explained. Two proud nails in a piece of plywood with a longer piece of string tied to each. Keeping the string taut away from the nails with a pencil will make a perfect oval. Adjust the distance between the nails and the length of string to alter the size and shape of oval.

Never trust the miter saw graduations when you begin your work, check the blade with a square to the fence and the deck and adjust accordingly.

For the vertical legs of case molding around a door, hang the top piece with both miters cut first. Cut the 45 on the verticals and put in place plumbed upside down and make a tick mark at the long point of the horizontal piece, make a straight cut for the base and nail in place right side up. Never measure unless you have to.

Always take the label off of a new circular saw blade, it can heat up and warp it.

If installing laminate counter tops, take off your nail apron and ensure all the screws you take under the cabinets with you are of appropriate length. It only takes one stray screw in your apron that's too long to ruin the whole job. Easier done than you might think when you are upside down in a dark cabinet screwing up above your head.

I saw some guys post about coping with a side grinder. I cut most of the material off with chop saw and keep a dremel handy with a barrel sander. Works great on even the most detailed profiles.

A damp sponge on nearly dry mud reduces sanding time and mess.

If you bend a nail just before it's flush, (obviously hit a knot or another nail) drive one beside it before pulling it out.

If you haven't invested in one of those vibrating oscillating saws yet...GET ONE. Many brands available for less than $100. It virtually replaces a jamb saw when installing tile and has so many uses I can't believe i ever got along without one. Fein Multi-Master makes the best but they are about $350 and the blades are about $35 apiece. Home Depot sells a Dremel model pretty cheap and they save lots of time in a lot of situations.

How many times have you made a makeshift table saw by using a circular saw to cut through the middle of a scrap piece of plywood and screwing the deck down with short screws and flipping it upside down on your sawhorses? use a zip tie to keep trigger mashed and I use a power strip surge protector with on/off switch to energize when needed. ******* I know, but worth the effort in a pinch sometimes....like ripping furring strips, or cutting shims, etc.

I love this site and hope some of this helps as you guys seem to be most gracious with your help and advice.


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## treylortrache

Leo G said:


> In this case your young fella was correct. As long as you were scribing the line off the square on the remove side of the board.:


You would be assuming he _barely_ cut the line completely off rather than cutting it short and attempting to cover the mistake with his pencil lead and place the blame on the measure man....(me). I can respect the creative thinking involved though.


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## boman47k

I really like the door trim thing..after I figured out what you were saying.

Haven't figured the oval out yet.

All in all, sounds like some good tips.


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## treylortrache

*The oval explained...*

OK, Picture this. Tie both ends of a single piece of string to two nails and drive them in the wall where the string hangs loosely under the nails. Take a pencil and put it against the hanging string and pull it down to make the string tight, Keeping the string tight with the pencil begin to scribe the oval on the wall around the nails. The premise is a perfect oval hasn't a single radius point like a circle but two radii. The distance between the nails and the length of string hanging from them determine the size and shape of the oval.


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## treylortrache

*Outdoor electrical connections*

I used this tip to invent one of my own....an old timer showed me how to preserve outdoor electrical connections by squirting a bit of silicone inside the wire nut after screwing it on tight. Makes it water-tight forever. Well one of my kids was digging in the yard and cut the line to my shed. It was 10-2 direct burial romex and was cut completely in half, (he said he thought it was a root). Well I spliced me a piece in and used a tube of silicone to encase it. Cut the ends off the tube and make a lengthwise split down the length of the tube. Carefully pry open the slit and lay the splice inside it to completely encapsulate it. Let it cure overnight and go back and bury it worry free.


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## Cjeff

"if installing laminate counter tops, take off your nail apron and ensure all the screws you take under the cabinets with you are of appropriate length. It only takes one stray screw in your apron that's too long to ruin the whole job. Easier done than you might think when you are upside down in a dark cabinet screwing up above your head."

Leaned that the hard way, :furious:using 1.25 screws and one was 1.5", just bubbled the top fortunately, took it out and put a shorter one beside it and all was well.


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## Grubber

*Layout anchor bolts for round silo.*

We poured the foundation for a tank silo with a 55' radius. Large anchor bolts were scheduled around the circumference approximately every 63".
We were only given the chord length distance between each of the anchor bolts and the location of the first bolt.
To avoid accumulated error when stepping off all those bolts one at a time, we discovered that by starting at the first designated bolt location and striking two arcs exactly equal to the radius on opposite sides of the first bolt would provide us with two additional stations exactly spaced on bolt centers. From these three working points, we layed out all the remaining bolts using the chord length provided.


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## mc handyman

My grandfather and I were rebuilding a old milk house at the family homestead one summer. We need to cut a peice of planking for the loft storage deck. I foolishly forgot to grab the carpenters square and we needed to make a perfect 90 cut. 

He showed me that if you make your mark you can then take your handsaw (if in good shiny condition) and hold the flat back end of the blade perpendicular to the mark you will find the reflection of the board. Once you find the reflection you line the reflection up with the actual board and strike a line. That is then your 90 cut mark to follow with the hand saw. Good thing he taught me how to properly use a hand saw.

Great man. Sure do miss the days of learning from him.


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## bobcashion

I was taught a long time ago to mark the side of my 4 foot level with rough opening sizes for doors. It makes walking through and checking the job much quicker if you don't have to reach for a tape at every opening


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## sigmolding

DA stood for ducks ass


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## Theophilus20

The best trick i came up with is one that spring boards off something an older framer taught me about cutting 8' lumber to studd length all at once. But thats not the trick, but because of it I came up with a great way to cut Large facia board gable angles perfect every time:

When I do large facia board gables (larger than 8") i usuallt install them on the sub-facia without cutting them. I overlap them at the top nailing them in place half way up. Then draw a plumb line where they are supposed to meet. Shove a piece of OSB or something behind them, and cut both at once. Perfect matched angles without test fits.

Just finished a log home at Georgetown lake MT. Did all the large Facia boards this way. Wish i had taken a picture of these 12" Cedar gable cuts. Perfect and Tight.


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## Bastien1337

Hopefully no one posted this already but for those still guessing here it is.

string line knot


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## Bastien1337

Using your tape as a calculator.

bending it in half to reveal the division of the number

exp. 50" hold the hook of the tape to the 50" mark on the blade look to the fold should read 25"

adding small fractions together by marking them out in succession on a piece of scrap and then reading the whole number from edge to finish.

finding the true corner on of your measurement by marking an arc with the edge of your tape off both square sides of your sheet good and then drawing your lines thru.

quickly dividing a difficult number into equal sections. take your tape and hook it onto the edge of work piece. if piece is 23 3/16" wide and you want 7 equal marks across that width but dont care to divide, take your tape and draw it to the other edge of the piece until it measures a number that can be divided by 7 easily. in this example 28. then mark every 4" increment along your tape on the piece. now take your tape and measure from edge to your mark. you should now have (in this example) 7 equal marks on your work piece and you avoided having to do the tricky math.


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## Dirtywhiteboy

Bastien1337 said:


> Hopefully no one posted this already but for those still guessing here it is.
> 
> string line knot


Dang I've only been looping my line 4 times:blink: no wonder all my stuff is crooked :tt2:


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## skyhook

that's almost how I tie fish hooks.:thumbsup:


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## Grubber

That messes your line up especially if it's the cheap twisted line instead of braided.


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## Marty63

I read in an earlier post where someone talked about using toilet wax for screws, I do that also I usually get it from a plumber when needed, it last a really long time. The advantage over bees wax is that it always stays soft and bees wax seems to freeze the screws in the wood if they need to come back out in the future.

I save an old deodorant container and use it to put the wax in, as you use it you just screw more to the top until it needs a refill. The top keeps it from making a mess.

I also save old mustard containers for glue, they are usually fairly tough if you buy the right brand, and my wife knows which ones I like. I like to do my part for the recycling effort.

One tip I haven’t seen is if your shimming a hinge on the barrel side of the door if you cut your shim about a half inch bigger than the hinge then bevel the short sides when you insert the shim until it gets tight in the mortise, once you screw the hinge tight again take your utility knife and cut the hinge flush with the door or jamb. Once painted or stained unless you’re looking for it, it is very hard to see.

This is one of the best treads I seen on this site.


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## Leafan

bobcashion said:


> I was taught a long time ago to mark the side of my 4 foot level with rough opening sizes for doors. It makes walking through and checking the job much quicker if you don't have to reach for a tape at every opening


Always loved this one. Use it all the time.


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## Leafan

bobcashion said:


> I was taught a long time ago to mark the side of my 4 foot level with rough opening sizes for doors. It makes walking through and checking the job much quicker if you don't have to reach for a tape at every opening


One of the easiest but most useful tricks in my book. Lol. Loving this thread


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## oravik

*coffee tip*

Not strictly a construction tip but , i know a lad that worked on a fishing boat , he was the new boy so he had to make the coffee . The captain liked a full cup of coffee but the galley was down bellow and trying to take a full cup up in the rolling sea was impossible. solution take a big mouthfull before he sets off, then spits it back in the cup just outside the bridge.:whistling


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## billy d

LMAO Thanks for the tip on the coffee,you just never know when that will come in handy.:thumbsup::thumbup::laughing::whistling


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## sigmolding

one trick I've learned, not neccessarily the best, but by taking 2x4's and cutting them into wedges; you can disasemble lumber that has been nailed together such as stud and cripple, multiple sills, etc. Plenty of scrap lumber to work with on a house and there are plenty of uses for them. Picking up low corners, persuading twisted lumber,etc.


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## Cairncross

*Throw the dog in*

A painter got started on a residential repaint, the house was full of expensive carpet. The lady warned the crew that there would be hell to pay if the carpet got paint on it, or if her precious poodle got let out the door.
The crew set their tarps and got started. Of course a bucket of paint got spilled, and the carpet soaked.
The quick thinking boss threw the poodle into the paint, then started screaming at the dog.
When the concerned customer came running, it was obvious the dog caused the spill, and she never blamed the painter, just consoled her poor, innocent doggie.

Always remember to keep a scapegoat handy when things get messy.:clap:


----------



## Bastien1337

Cairncross said:


> A painter got started on a residential repaint, the house was full of expensive carpet. The lady warned the crew that there would be hell to pay if the carpet got paint on it, or if her precious poodle got let out the door.
> The crew set their tarps and got started. Of course a bucket of paint got spilled, and the carpet soaked.
> The quick thinking boss threw the poodle into the paint, then started screaming at the dog.
> When the concerned customer came running, it was obvious the dog caused the spill, and she never blamed the painter, just consoled her poor, innocent doggie.
> 
> Always remember to keep a scapegoat handy when things get messy.:clap:


FTW

epic


----------



## sigmolding

I heard it was called a ( UNION LABEL)


----------



## sigmolding

*Best trick i learned from an old schooler*

I was told it was called a (union label)


----------



## Brutus

My boss taught me a cool/easy on site way to divide odd fractions in half. Say for marking out doors/windows from a center mark.

Say you have to divide 49 5/8 by two.

add the denominator to the numerator to give you your new numerator (5+8 =13)
multiply your denominator by 2 (8 x 2 = 16)

So this gives you the new fraction of 13/16.

Then for the whole number. Subtract 1 from it then divide by 2. (49-1)/2 = 24

So 49 5/8 divided by 2 = 24 13/16

:thumbsup:

This works very well for me, Im sorry if I am not exactly clear on the methods.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Brutus said:


> My boss taught me a cool/easy on site way to divide odd fractions in half. Say for marking out doors/windows from a center mark.
> 
> Say you have to divide 49 5/8 by two.
> 
> add the denominator to the numerator to give you your new numerator (5+8 =13)
> multiply your denominator by 2 (8 x 2 = 16)
> 
> So this gives you the new fraction of 13/16.
> 
> Then for the whole number. Subtract 1 from it then divide by 2. (49-1)/2 = 24
> 
> So 49 5/8 divided by 2 = 24 13/16
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> This works very well for me, Im sorry if I am not exactly clear on the methods.


My goodensssssMan that is awsommm:w00t: dose it work every time


----------



## Brutus

Well not if you have a number like 48 1/2.



79 3/8

3+8 = 11
8x2 = 16

So 11/16

(79-1)/2 = 39

39 11/16


back check... 39x 2 = 78...... 11/16 x 2 = 22/16 or 1 and 6/16 or 1 and 3/8......1 3/8 + 78 = 79 3/8


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

The "California Patch" 

For small drywall repairs. It is done buy cutting the existing whole square/rectangular, then cutting a piece of drywall 4 inches bigger in both directions. Then score the backside of the drywall the same size as the whole and peal away the hard board. This leaves the front paper on the drywall patch and reduces the patch process by two coats. Great trick, works great, always amazes the new guys!


----------



## Leafan

ohiohomedoctor said:


> The "California Patch"
> 
> For small drywall repairs. It is done buy cutting the existing whole square/rectangular, then cutting a piece of drywall 4 inches bigger in both directions. Then score the backside of the drywall the same size as the whole and peal away the hard board. This leaves the front paper on the drywall patch and reduces the patch process by two coats. Great trick, works great, always amazes the new guys!


We call that a California Patch. Not sure why :scratch head


----------



## Bastien1337

Maybe because Californians are too smoked out to grab a piece of backing:laughing:


----------



## katoman

Here's a couple more -

For framing layout connect your pencil to your crayon with a piece of clear plastic tubing. Then you have both as one.

Sharpen your carpenters pencil with your block plane. You can get a razor edge that way.

Sharpen the claw on your straight claw framing hammer. You never know when you are going to slide down the roof and you'll need it to stop from going over the edge. 

Don't ask how I know this. :w00t:


----------



## txgencon

When hanging a house full of pre-hung doors, prep the hinge side first, blocking for plumb in two dimensions and square to the wall. For doors in the corner of rooms, measure out from the nearest corner so all the doors will be the same distance out of the corner. This takes some figuring out at first, allowing for the width of the casing and it's best to start with a door in a hallway - setting up so the door is centered in the hall. Then, use that measurement on all the doors in a corner. This way, you don't have to struggle with holding the door and a six foot level and a nail gun. Just slap the hinge side against the blocking, nail and set your gaps the rest of the way around. 

For closet/pantry doors that will get door switches, add a jack stud to the framing for the hinge side. Then, cut out a 8"-10" section of the outermost jack where the electrician has his wire for the switch sticking through.


----------



## William James

When doing trim work, always use spring clamps on your miters. 

Thanks Bass!
Cheers


----------



## dagumol

When hanging ceiling grid from bar joists' bend the wire to the height you need for it to hang level and turn the wire 180 degrees before inserting it into the wire slot to keep it from sliding along the joist making the ceiling high and out of level.


----------



## skyhook

_Before ripping off a piece of molding from a painted surface.
Use a utility knife to cut through the paint and caulking. 
It will leave a nice clean line to finish up to.
:thumbsup:
_​


----------



## InsideandOut

Willie T said:


> It means that for exact measuring, you begin with the 1 inch mark on the START line, and measure from there.... then subtract 1 inch.
> 
> EXAMPLE start at 1 inch and measure out 11 inches for an exact 10 inches.


Just remember to subtract the inch!


----------



## Munanbak

Laminate Samples

You know, the small rectangular countertop samples. I've got a box of them, for finish carpentry and cabinet making. They make perfect consistent tiny shims for getting that extra 1/16 inch on a drawer slide or countertop. Use them for spacers when setting drawer faces and small tiles. Also, the rounded ones work to scrape most finished surfaces instead of using your plane blade or razor.


----------



## sancho

To cut tile at 45 degrees, use a speed square with a couple of stair gauges and set it on the tile saw table


----------



## Joe Carola

Brutus said:


> My boss taught me a cool/easy on site way to divide odd fractions in half. Say for marking out doors/windows from a center mark.
> 
> Say you have to divide 49 5/8 by two.
> 
> add the denominator to the numerator to give you your new numerator (5+8 =13)
> multiply your denominator by 2 (8 x 2 = 16)
> 
> So this gives you the new fraction of 13/16.
> 
> Then for the whole number. Subtract 1 from it then divide by 2. (49-1)/2 = 24
> 
> So 49 5/8 divided by 2 = 24 13/16
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> This works very well for me, Im sorry if I am not exactly clear on the methods.


In my head I divide 49 in half into 24-1/2"

5/8" is 5/16. because we all know 1/2" is 8/16.

24-1/2 + 5/16" = 24-13/16". I guess I and quick with this because of all the years framing and dividing numbers in my head. Everyone now always says how fast I can do it.I just separate the numbers in my head.

86-7/8 ÷ 2 = 43-7/16"

I do this in my head.

87÷2 = 43-1/2. I know you have to divide 1/8 in two. So I just subtract the 1/16" from the 43-1/2" = 43-7/16" 

I can't explain it. For some reason I can just look at the number when knowing it has to be divided in half and can visualize it in my head.


----------



## txgencon

If you need to square a number that ends in 5:

Example: 85 x 85

Add 1 to the first number and multiply by the original first number, in this case 9x8 = 72 then stick 25 on the end so that 85 x 85 = 7225.

Why you would ever need to do this is beyond me.


----------



## katoman

Joe, it is 24 13/16. Check your math.


----------



## txgencon

Brutus said:


> My boss taught me a cool/easy on site way to divide odd fractions in half. Say for marking out doors/windows from a center mark.
> 
> Say you have to divide 49 5/8 by two.
> 
> add the denominator to the numerator to give you your new numerator (5+8 =13)
> multiply your denominator by 2 (8 x 2 = 16)
> 
> So this gives you the new fraction of 13/16.
> 
> Then for the whole number. Subtract 1 from it then divide by 2. (49-1)/2 = 24
> 
> So 49 5/8 divided by 2 = 24 13/16
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> This works very well for me, Im sorry if I am not exactly clear on the methods.


I have a tape that is laid out for determining half of a measured distance. When I grab it by mistake to use for anything else, I end up making a trip back to the truck and getting a normal tape measure. And when I need it for determining a half distance, I forget I have it. That makes it practically worthless, huh?


----------



## Brutus

Joe Carola said:


> In my head I divide 49 in half into 24-1/2"
> 
> 5/8" is 5/16. because we all know 1/2" is 8/16.
> 
> 24-1/2 + 5/16" = 24-13/16". I guess I and quick with this because of all the years framing and dividing numbers in my head. Everyone now always says how fast I can do it.I just separate the numbers in my head.
> 
> 86-7/8 ÷ 2 = 43-7/16"
> 
> I do this in my head.
> 
> 87÷2 = 43-1/2. I know you have to divide 1/8 in two. So I just subtract the 1/16" from the 43-1/2" = 43-7/16"
> 
> I can't explain it. For some reason I can just look at the number when knowing it has to be divided in half and can visualize it in my head.


 
I do it in my head aswell, I used to have to write it out until my boss showed me his method. I actually remember struggling writting it out when I was posting that reply.


----------



## InsideandOut

kwt const said:


> I don't wear glasses (not that curious yet) but I knew an old timer who flipped his bifocals upside down to work on crown mould.
> 
> Several years ago there was a pro snooker/billiards player who had his bifocals flipped so he could see his shots as he looked down the cue!


----------



## VAviaCo

Doug-Bob Shower in Arvada lays out the rafters on his top plates before standing the walls. Yeah, you have to think about how the corners line up and whether to add 3 1/2", but it saves walking backwards on the 2x4 wall with your tape hooked at the end, marking rafter or truss lay outs. Doug-Bob didn't let his newbs lay out walls with a ladder. You walked the walls or you went looking for work at McDonald's. (Now if he'd laid them all out on the floor, I would have never have learned to layout 2x4 walls by walking on the backwards).


----------



## Tinstaafl

hdavis said:


> Peen down the rivets on the end of your tape so you don't wind up cutting short from them hanging up in the lumber.


I suppose that would be okay for rough framing. I prefer to have the hook float as designed, so my measurements are as accurate as practical.

I've screwed up way more cuts by measuring from the 1" mark than by rivets hanging up.  :laughing:


----------



## Tech Dawg

Tin tought me how to stop working and take a lunch break :laughing:


----------



## hdavis

Tinstaafl said:


> I suppose that would be okay for rough framing. I prefer to have the hook float as designed, so my measurements are as accurate as practical.
> 
> I've screwed up way more cuts by measuring from the 1" mark than by rivets hanging up.  :laughing:


You just work it back loose after peening, and only have to do the edge that will catch. It'll still float, you just have to be careful and make sure to free it before using.


----------



## hdavis

When remodeling and making a new wall to create a closet, frame the wall on the floor, when drywall it and stand it up.


----------



## livingsoulsdie

If you have to drive in a few hundred 10" Timber-locks non stop use this baby ^^^









So much smoother than an 1/2" impact driver and less noisy . Plus your arm doesnt feel like its going to fall off when your done.

I had to attach 4 ganged 2x8x20's onto 4 power-poles with staggered locks 16 OC on the scaffold it went incredibly fast lol.


Not really a tip from an old-timer, just something I learned using another tool that made a world of difference to me.


----------



## otislilly

My father taught me long ago something that is imperitive to the job.
If you are fighting it, your doing something wrong. stop, and get what you really need to do it right.


----------



## Calidecks

What about framing whole houses with your hammer and no nail guns. Yea thats how old i am


----------



## donerightwyo

When masking off plumbing stub outs or anything that you can wrap tape around I always wrap it sticky side out.


----------



## Ian345

Buy the one you want the first time, it's cheaper in the long run. (spoken by a man who bought 5 trucks in 5 years)


----------



## Walter Secore

Here is a old one, if your soddeing copper pipe and you have the water off but it is still dripping water stuff a small piece of bread in the pipe to hold the water back. Then sodder the pipe.When you turn the water back on the bread will desolve


----------



## mrcharles

Willie T said:


> Need to cut an arch for a door way or an opening, but the radius point would end up somewhere out in the front yard?
> 
> Simply stand a sheet of plywood on edge (might have to tack it to a stud), and mark your width on the top edge.
> 
> Hang a string line sagging down from the two marks. Feed string out, or take it in till you get the look you want. Then just follow the string with pencil marks.
> 
> The arch will end up balanced and smooth for most shallow arches. Of course you can't let the string loop hang too far down or it will really look strange.
> 
> Bending 1/2" PVC pipe will do an acceptable job on larger arches, too.




I have some old school sewer tapes that i use for making my arches. It works better with another set of hands, but is a simple and quick way to mark out an arch.


----------



## mrcharles

hdavis said:


> I do this the other way around - cut the patch, score and peel. Then mark the wall using the patch, cut the hole to size. Sometime you get odd breaks on the drywall patch - this way it always fits.




I've heard of doing these patches. My dad always called it a hillbilly patch. Seems like more work than just using 5 or 20.


----------



## mrcharles

loneframer said:


> Worked with an old timer on a job once, who made a mistake drilling a cabinet face frame. Instead of taking the heat for drilling out the face of the stile, he smashed it up and threw it in the dumpster.
> 
> Then he told the GC it had never been delivered from the distributor.:laughing:




I worked for that same guy!!


----------



## otislilly

mrcharles said:


> I've heard of doing these patches. My dad always called it a hillbilly patch. Seems like more work than just using 5 or 20.


Any smart hillbilly can use this method on a hole up to 12x12 or so with good results, before most could find 2 backer sticks, 8 screws, and the drill, and then you still have to mesh tape and use the same 5 or 20 we do. then there is the dry time, if you just use mesh tape, even on a hole say 2x4 (old outlet hole or even a doorknob through the wall repair, I do it sometimes also, if i dont need 3 coats and paint before I get breakfast on way to next job) it gets hard, in a few min, but not dry enough to paint. with the hillbilly patch the compound isnt 1/2" or more thick in the hole, its only paper deep that makes the entire job, including paint over faster. But I am Dumb hillbilly, NC by way of WV.


----------



## livingsoulsdie

otislilly said:


> Any smart hillbilly can use this method on a hole up to 12x12 or so with good results, before most could find 2 backer sticks, 8 screws, and the drill, and then you still have to mesh tape and use the same 5 or 20 we do. then there is the dry time, if you just use mesh tape, even on a hole say 2x4 (old outlet hole or even a doorknob through the wall repair, I do it sometimes also, if i dont need 3 coats and paint before I get breakfast on way to next job) it gets hard, in a few min, but not dry enough to paint. with the hillbilly patch the compound isnt 1/2" or more thick in the hole, its only paper deep that makes the entire job, including paint over faster. But I am Dumb hillbilly, NC by way of WV.




I dont know if I would go all the way to 12x 12 for this method thought. What if someone bumps into that portion of the wall with just a tiny bit of force. Wont it just fall right through?


----------



## boman47k

Have to agree, 12x12 seems a little extreme. In fact, I am not sure I would use a hot patch for a door knob hole. I favor them in higher up locations or places that are not very apt to be hit.

Still hope no one tries to hang a pic on one higher up.


----------



## otislilly

livingsoulsdie said:


> I dont know if I would go all the way to 12x 12 for this method thought. What if someone bumps into that portion of the wall with just a tiny bit of force. Wont it just fall right through?


with speed mud, I place mud all around the hole on the wall, then on the sides of the piece I am replacing it with. The 1/2 inch edge, push it in the hole, so there is no dry spaces, where can it go. I have seen people only do around the hole, without putting mud on the back to fill the crack, that I would worry about. 12x12 hillbilly, nope, no concern, I will warranty it forever.


----------



## Spike7

*spike7*

i do alot of molding installtion
when measuring from an inside corner to another inside corner, , you know how the tape just bends around the corner , and you have to kind of guess the measurement?
run a pencil line down that inside corner, then push that tape measure as tight as you can in that corner , you`ll have a mark to go by, and most times get an exact measurement.

also when i`m doing a whole house
i make a quick floor drawing for each room , not to scale

then i spend an hour or so , and measure every wall , and write the measurement on the wall where my molding will cover it .
i then write all my measurements on each floor plan
most times , i can stay at the miter-saw , and cut all my peices at once , cutting down on alot of walking .
as i`m cutting , i`m writing the size on each peice ( on the back)
then when done cutting ( sometimes its 2 or 3 hours ) i bring each full set into each room
of course there will be some miss-cuts , most times too big,you train yourself to stay on the larger side if anything 
but if your pretty accurate at measuring , this will make the job more efficient , and also cut down on so much walking , and bending over
' if you have a helpter , he can easily be trained to carry , and disperse all the peices along the wall where they go , and once your in there on the ground installing , you rarely have to get up .

do others do this ?
i wasn`t trained this way , but it just made sense


----------



## Spike7

*spike 7*

also 
if i have 20 or 30- 16 foot peices of molding i`m going to cut for installtion , i usually take more than half of them and right away ,cut an inside 45 on each end of of them . most of your cuts will be inside corners.
that way , you can leave your saw at one setting .


----------



## NINZAN STUDIO

otislilly said:


> Can you tell me how to ah, mechanically-fasten an inside corner to each other?


Never said I did. What I meant is that I pretty much glue all my miters, both paint and stain grade. I've also use biscuits for stain grade trim joints.


----------



## NINZAN STUDIO

And to get back on topic: last week an old timer showed me how to adjust a incredibly sticky pocket door I had installed. The top of the door was rubbing 12" or so inside the pocket on the very top 1x4 of the door frame. He split the metal plate holding the bottoms of the frame at the pocket throat and wedged them apart. Also ran shims into the top of the frame to spread the sides equally as the bottom. This helped in everywhere spot the door was rubbing except the one mentioned above. I didn't want to break drywall to fix it so he fashioned a sanding stick, 1x4 with a piece of belt sanding paper 2P-10'd to it, the 1x4 screwed to a long 1x. He was able to sand down the 1x4 of the pocket frame enough so the door stopped touching. First time I'd seen that. Pretty cool.

Oh and the drywallers ran 1-1/4" screws into the pocket door frame so in a few spots, the very tip of the screws were gouging my door panel's raised molding. I used a rare earth magnet (always keep it on my belt) to locate the trouble screw heads and back them out. Same old timer showed me this trick, best stud finder ever.


----------



## txgencon

otislilly said:


> Inside corners on baseboard and crown


Sorry, been gone all day replacing the cylinders on my CTL in East Texas. Although I think y'all figured it out in the new thread, I'll go there and make sure I'm clear.


----------



## Leo G

Did you cope those cylinders? :laughing:


----------



## duburban

donerightwyo said:


> I walked into a house a few weeks ago and my guy that was supposed to be experienced had all the stain window trim precut and sitting in the windows. He's an old timer, I questioned his method and he got pissed and walked off the job. The fact is that one in a hundred times is 45's actually good enough for my work.
> 
> I don't think that he meant to do sub- par work, I just don't think anyone in all these years had taught him the way it should be done. His pride got in the way him of learning something from a younger guy. He had worked for us long enough that he should have known I don't blow smoke. I fixed his mess. Know great harm done, but it could have turned out differently.



what was the error he made? i guess I'm too green for this or i'm not understanding you.


----------



## txgencon

Leo G said:


> Did you cope those cylinders? :laughing:


Actually, I sorta did. When the machine shop welded the end fittings from the old cylinders on the new cylinders, some of the weld got into the mating surface for the upper pin. I had to grind out some of it and some off the pin flange so the surfaces would mate.


----------



## donerightwyo

duburban said:


> what was the error he made? i guess I'm too green for this or i'm not understanding you.


He had cut all the trim to 45 degree angles, to the exact length. These were existing windows on a remodel. There was no chance they were level and square. I realize there are different levels of finish, maybe this would be good enough at some price points or track housing, but it ain't good enough for me. No one talks sh!t about our quality and I aim to keep it that way.


----------



## Leo G

Well, if you glue the trim together and then mount it you can bend it a bit to fit non 90 degree corners. I've done it many times with preassembled trim. But it can't be to far out.


----------



## KnottyWoodwork

Or just use an angle finder, and cut your miters accordingly.


----------



## donerightwyo

What about the bevel? If the jamb isn't planed with the sheetrock isn't a slight bevel sometimes required to get it to lay flat and still have a tight joint?


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

KnottyWoodwork said:


> Or just use an angle finder, and cut your miters accordingly.


----------



## livingsoulsdie

donerightwyo said:


> What about the bevel? If the jamb isn't planed with the sheetrock isn't a slight bevel sometimes required to get it to lay flat and still have a tight joint?


You compound miter all your door casings if the drywall is a little in or out?
Are you working on crazy high end stuff? How long does it take you to trim out a house?


----------



## Spike7

a agree with compund mitering anywhere its needed . you have to do it right 

i don`t agree with the coping still
and i don`t want to hear that makes me a guy who deosn`t care about quality

LEO , you sound like a great carpenter , but you admitted most of your work is in a shop . you said you did a complete house a few months back

i do only homes , and commercial installation 
i don`t cope 
i used to 
i`m 54 yrs old . 
my dad use to have one of those old hand-slide miter saws, we did it all with that , and a coping saw , and hand finished nailed , and glued .

but i still have not heard a single person say " why " it should be coped over mitered now.
shrinkage doesn`t make sense . if your a tight miter , and your tight to the wall,shrinkage , on mitered or coped with be the same 
theres no way you can tell me that a coped piece of wood will not shrink as much as a mitered 
with a mitered joint , the entire pieces of wood are together 
when its coped , and if the coper is not exact , then there will be points where the wood won`t be tight together

tell me , and i`ll open my mind 

but to just say " coping is best " but not truly having a valid reason , short of thats the only way you have done it , so thats got to be the only right way , that`s not very helpful to a guy who would love to know the true best way.
i`m old school .
but machinery has its place in our trade too .


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Spike7 said:


> a agree with compund mitering anywhere its needed . you have to do it right
> 
> i don`t agree with the coping still
> and i don`t want to hear that makes me a guy who deosn`t care about quality
> 
> LEO , you sound like a great carpenter , but you admitted most of your work is in a shop . you said you did a complete house a few months back
> 
> i do only homes , and commercial installation
> i don`t cope
> i used to
> i`m 54 yrs old .
> my dad use to have one of those old hand-slide miter saws, we did it all with that , and a coping saw , and hand finished nailed , and glued .
> 
> but i still have not heard a single person say " why " it should be coped over mitered now.
> shrinkage doesn`t make sense . if your a tight miter , and your tight to the wall,shrinkage , on mitered or coped with be the same
> theres no way you can tell me that a coped piece of wood will not shrink as much as a mitered
> with a mitered joint , the entire pieces of wood are together
> when its coped , and if the coper is not exact , then there will be points where the wood won`t be tight together
> 
> tell me , and i`ll open my mind
> 
> but to just say " coping is best " but not truly having a valid reason , short of thats the only way you have done it , so thats got to be the only right way , that`s not very helpful to a guy who would love to know the true best way.
> i`m old school .
> but machinery has its place in our trade too .


The reason I cope is because I don't have to put a angle finder on the inside corners. And I can get measurements of a bunch of square to squares hack them with my pocket saw and bang them in, Chop Chop kine:blink:


----------



## hdavis

Spike7 said:


> tell me , and i`ll open my mind
> 
> but to just say " coping is best " but not truly having a valid reason , short of thats the only way you have done it , so thats got to be the only right way , that`s not very helpful to a guy who would love to know the true best way.
> i`m old school .
> but machinery has its place in our trade too .


I'm all for mtre joints, inside or outside. On drywall, if you glue the pieces at the corner, it'll stay good. I cope because I don't glue. I typically try to cut the piece a little long, so it gets spring into place to keep it tight - can't always do that. A mitre cut on an inside corner one piece will ride over the other. But I'm not new construction, I'm more on the restoration end and I try do do almost everything so it can be taken apart without destroying the materials. What I actually wind up doing always depends on the specifics I'm dealing with,


----------



## boman47k

Correct me if I am wrong. When you miter and do not glue, the shrinkage of *two* pieces of wood can show as a slight separation at the joint.

When you cope, two pieces of wood can still shrink, but the eye only sees this effect on *one* piece; therefore there is a slightly less noticeable separation at the joint. This smaller separation is because one of the pieces is covered by the other piece.

Correct?


----------



## Leo G

Plus when you cope you usually snap the coped section in place and it is usually about 1/16"-1/8" longer than the wall itself, so you have that extra length to help not show shrinkage. Other advantages is you get a +/- 2º variance, so if the wall is not a perfect 90 then there is no need to worry.

The problem that comes with mitering is when you nail the molding it has a tendency to to push the sheetrock closer to the stud, making the distance that you measured for the molding longer and therefore a gap occurs. This is totally dependent on the sheetrockers ability to get the sheetrock tight to the stud and how much moisture was in the stud when it was sheetrocked and how much it had shrunk from the time it was hung and the molding applied. If you prenail the inside corner moldings then this is less likely to occur. With coping this is rarely an issue because even if the wall moves the cope just follows it.


----------



## r4r&r

Leo G said:


> Plus when you cope you usually snap the coped section in place and it is usually about 1/16"-1/8" longer than the wall itself, so you have that extra length to help not show shrinkage. Other advantages is you get a +/- 2º variance, so if the wall is not a perfect 90 then there is no need to worry.
> 
> The problem that comes with mitering is when you nail the molding it has a tendency to to push the sheetrock closer to the stud, making the distance that you measured for the molding longer and therefore a gap occurs. This is totally dependent on the sheetrockers ability to get the sheetrock tight to the stud and how much moisture was in the stud when it was sheetrocked and how much it had shrunk from the time it was hung and the molding applied. If you prenail the inside corner moldings then this is less likely to occur. With coping this is rarely an issue because even if the wall moves the cope just follows it.


Thank you, and finally a valid argument for coping that explains some of the advantages in a logical manner. 
Now if someone could explain how to decrease the amount of time it takes to cope cuz it takes me an a$$ load longer than mitering.


----------



## Leo G

Charge more for doing a professional job. Give them the choice.


----------



## katoman

donerightwyo said:


> What about the bevel? If the jamb isn't planed with the sheetrock isn't a slight bevel sometimes required to get it to lay flat and still have a tight joint?


We masking tape off the jambs and mud out the walls so the cassings sit flat and the mitres are perfect.

I think I see that in tract work it's a whole different level of quality. Sorry, I don't do that stuff.

Re: reasons to cope - see Basswoods explanation in the "cope vs mitre" thread.


----------



## slowsol

katoman said:


> We masking tape off the jambs and mud out the walls so the cassings sit flat and the mitres are perfect.
> 
> I think I see that in tract work it's a whole different level of quality. Sorry, I don't do that stuff.
> 
> Re: reasons to cope - see Basswoods explanation in the "cope vs mitre" thread.


Wow. Do you paint every room that you trim?


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

slowsol said:


> Wow. Do you paint every room that you trim?


Who paints? :laughing:


----------



## katoman

slowsol said:


> Wow. Do you paint every room that you trim?


Not sure what you mean. If it's a small job I paint it. If it's a whole house my painter does it.

Not sure what that's got to do with painting.


----------



## donerightwyo

katoman said:


> We masking tape off the jambs and mud out the walls so the cassings sit flat and the mitres are perfect.
> 
> I think I see that in tract work it's a whole different level of quality. Sorry, I don't do that stuff.
> 
> Re: reasons to cope - see Basswoods explanation in the "cope vs mitre" thread.


This would be awesome, I've never seen it done. I wonder how many people actually do this. That would certainly be on a whole different level than what were doing but I don't know if I would call what were doing tract work.


----------



## katoman

I have no idea the work you are doing. No offense. I used the "tract work" (up here I call it subdivision) to differenciate the different levels of acceptable work.

In the subdivisions it's all about speed. Quality is second.

I'm just saying how I do it. It admittedly is high end and not all customers can afford this level. But once I got into mudding out the jambs I do it as normal.

I hate messing around with mitres trying to make them fit well on a crooked walls. I find it easier to just fix the wall. One coat of 90 and some finish mud. I do them all at the same time.


----------



## donerightwyo

katoman said:


> I have no idea the work you are doing. No offense. I used the "tract work" (up here I call it subdivision) to differenciate the different levels of acceptable work.
> 
> In the subdivisions it's all about speed. Quality is second.
> 
> I'm just saying how I do it. It admittedly is high end and not all customers can afford this level. But once I got into mudding out the jambs I do it as normal.
> 
> I hate messing around with mitres trying to make them fit well on a crooked walls. I find it easier to just fix the wall. One coat of 90 and some finish mud. I do them all at the same time.


So do you do this after the floors are in and the walls are painted? Or is this while the tapers are working. We texture, paint, hard flooring then doors and trim? Not trying to start something, just curious.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

katoman said:


> I have no idea the work you are doing. No offense. I used the "tract work" (up here I call it subdivision) to differenciate the different levels of acceptable work.
> 
> In the subdivisions it's all about speed. Quality is second.
> 
> I'm just saying how I do it. It admittedly is high end and not all customers can afford this level. But once I got into mudding out the jambs I do it as normal.
> 
> I hate messing around with mitres trying to make them fit well on a crooked walls. I find it easier to just fix the wall. One coat of 90 and some finish mud. I do them all at the same time.


Thats an interesting concept. I haven't ever done this. Most of the time the jambs plane out just about perfect. I can see the advantage of this technique when working on very old plaster homes.


----------



## hdavis

r4r&r said:


> Thank you, and finally a valid argument for coping that explains some of the advantages in a logical manner.
> Now if someone could explain how to decrease the amount of time it takes to cope cuz it takes me an a$$ load longer than mitering.


Basswood posted a video on how he does it with an angle grinder fit with coarse sandpaper. I haven't tried it, but it looks to be faster than using a saw, and you can get the back bevel, so it's worth trying that way.


----------



## donerightwyo

r4r&r said:


> Thank you, and finally a valid argument for coping that explains some of the advantages in a logical manner.
> Now if someone could explain how to decrease the amount of time it takes to cope cuz it takes me an a$$ load longer than mitering.


I use a jigsaw, most copes take 30 seconds maybe on the easy stuff. The harder stuff rough it with the jigsaw and tune it with the grinder.


----------



## hdavis

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thats an interesting concept. I haven't ever done this. Most of the time the jambs plane out just about perfect. I can see the advantage of this technique when working on very old plaster homes.


Any time you're doing a class 5, you might as well do this. All the old plaster was done this way.


----------



## r4r&r

katoman said:


> We masking tape off the jambs and mud out the walls so the cassings sit flat and the mitres are perfect.


So how do handle when the jamb is narrower than the wall, say 5/8 rock on one or both sides. Do you then just make you're own or do something different.


----------



## livingsoulsdie

r4r&r said:


> So how do handle when the jamb is narrower than the wall, say 5/8 rock on one or both sides. Do you then just make you're own or do something different.


extension jambs?


----------



## goneelkn

> Basswood posted a video on how he does it with an angle grinder fit with coarse sandpaper. I haven't tried it, but it looks to be faster than using a saw, and you can get the back bevel, so it's worth trying that way


Try it, it works great.


----------



## katoman

Ok, to answer a few questions. I got into doing this when I had a couple of clients that expected "flawless" work and were willing to pay for that.

If it's stain grade trim, then you can't run a little caulk at the sides of the jambs to hide those little gaps. Paint grade you can do this and it won't show after paint.

So I mask off the jambs. From the door side edge of the jamb to just touching the drywall. This way the mud doesn't all go into the gap between the jamb and stud.

I hang all jambs, tape them off, mix some 90, fill it and then finish up with finish mud. I also do this to the windows.

I am the GC so I schedule this as I want. It of course is done before painting and before finish flooring is installed.

In no way am I suggesting that this needs to be done, or that how trimwork is normally installed is inferior.

I'm just passing this on for the times you need the best possible job done. And of course you're getting paid for this level or work.

Another point to consider is if you are quoting stain grade work, you know the walls aren't going to be perfect. So rather than fight with trying to get perfect mitres, mud out the walls.

You can also use this as a selling tool. Point out to the client the level of work you do and why you are x more money than the other guy.

Believe me, when clients see you doing this, they are impressed. Leads to referrals. :thumbsup:


----------



## oktex56

smartcarpie said:


> I was taught to replace big furry chalklines with braided flyline backer for finish work. Makes working to a line way more precise. And change plumb bob lines out to braided too, something like venitian blind cord works well.


This is an old trick I thought I invented!

The best solution is to use round braid which is sometimes hard to find. Flat won't work! It wears forever and it will take some time to get it to fray which is good because it holds chalk better, (Use a speed box)

Also while I was working on a huge job (4 and 5 story physics and engineering buildings at TX A & M) as a layout guy we found that it will whip when released allowing you to lay a good clear thin line looooong distances.

We also found out that engineers hardened pencil leads will last tons longer than normal carpenters pencils if you have to do this all day.

When the job engineer layed out the elevator shafts he used a 5lb plumb bob! First and last one I have ever seen...he had it made for him at a machine shop out of brass.

Steve:thumbup:


----------



## katoman

For fine chalk line you want to buy "braided dacron" fishing line. That's the only one that will hold the chalk.


----------



## oktex56

Need a perfectly straight tape line for masking?

Use strapping tape. I have done many outside masking lines longer than 50' at a time with no wind.

It would come in handy for a two color paint application or whatever calls for a perfect line.

3m makes the best quality strapping tape.

Steve:thumbup:


----------



## katoman

Steve - it doesn't pull off the finished paint?


----------



## kiteman

On my first framing job, my boss used center marks for stud layouts "in the field". He would lay out windows and doors with the normal XlC ( I know, its a trimmer not a cripple, but its easy) and then instead of marking 15 1/4 go(lX) he just marks (l) at 16, 32 etc. for all the other studs and cripples. He said "Anyone can find the center of a stud." Great for lining up sheathing, too. Try it sometime. I've been doing it that way for 35 years now, but I've never seen anyone else in this town do that.


----------



## katoman

If I marked centres the guys would land studs on either side :laughing:

But rather than mark a square line with an x beside, I mark a square line and then just make a slash on the side I want the common studs.

It's just a little bit faster. Micro seconds count you know. :whistling

I still mark cripples and jacks with a C and J.


----------



## ROVACON

Tinstaafl said:


> An old buzzard who showed me a lot said "The trick is in knowing what's good enough." :thumbsup:


Tin, one of the guys that I was taught by said the same thing. He also use to say "nail it off and wish it well." :laughing:


----------



## basswood

Here is a tip on getting accurate bevels cut on any saw. Cut a "pitch block" for the degrees of the bevel cut you need with a piece of scrap 1x4 or something, using the more accurate miter gauge, then set pitch block on edge on the saw table and set the bevel setting with the blade against the block and lock it down.

The bevel scale on most saws is too small to dial in a perfect bevel (for those of us without a Kapex). Pitch blocks are an easy work around.

For what it is worth.

Bass


----------



## actionman

An old con-critter taught me to finish the tops of crete filled ballards with a plastic bag. gives a nice domed top.


----------



## donerightwyo

actionman said:


> An old con-critter taught me to finish the tops of crete filled ballards with a plastic bag. gives a nice domed top.


I learned not to forget said ballards(10) when pouring a radiant tube floor in a big shop. In my dad's defense they were not on the foundation print. Pain in the ass but the old fart got them all in without busting a tube.:clap:


----------



## Gary H

Always bring a roll of your own toliet paper in the truck. Dont trust the porta john will have any.


----------



## Satman40

Hardly Working said:


> Back when I was just a kid my grandfather use to run his finish nails through his hair to grease them up to drive smoother through hard woods. He use to use VO5 from back in the day when greased back hair was the thing.
> 
> Who remebers the DA and I don't mean like Dual Action sander.
> 
> What did term DA refer to anybody?


Ducks ass


----------



## davy crockett

*better than a brick by the door*

when a door is set improper or settling causes it to close by itself, take 1-2 hinge pins and bend them a little. This will give enough friction to hold the door for a while.


----------



## Tinstaafl

davy crockett said:


> when a door is set improper or settling causes it to close by itself, take 1-2 hinge pins and bend them a little. This will give enough friction to hold the door for a while.


It will also sooner or later give you a squeaky door. :thumbsup:


----------



## Brutus

Gary H said:


> Always bring a roll of your own toliet paper in the truck. Dont trust the porta john will have any.


On that note, I don't know if you guys have loose tobacco packaged like we do up here in the great white north. It comes in a cylindrical plastic container. That fits a roll of toilet paper perfectly. Because you know someone is going to spill their water bottle or coffee all over the truck some day, and it WILL hit the TP.. and that will make for a crappy day.





(pun intended!)


----------



## 4 seasons

Most have been covered.
When installing basic top rails on a deck cut both sides of a corner at the same time. Lay each side of the corner in place, on top of each other. Then make your mark and cut with a circular saw. This will ensure they meet perfectly every time.

Also when sharpening your carpenters pencil, always raise one eyebrow. It will make you look intriguing!


----------



## A&E Exteriors

Cutting bottom plates halfway through the undersides in doorways, makes cutting them out faster and you use far less sawzall blades too


----------



## A&E Exteriors

I guess pretty much everything my second framing company I worked for did, crew was run by 2 ornery old timers


----------



## hdavis

A&E Exteriors said:


> Cutting bottom plates halfway through the undersides in doorways, makes cutting them out faster and you use far less sawzall blades too


I sure wish everyone knew this trick. Had to deal with a new stud wall that was right on the edge of a ~1.5" floor level change. Finished floor was already in place on both sides. No precuts on the underside...


----------



## Leo G

Fein mulimaster. Not really a framing tool though.


----------



## r4r&r

Leo G said:


> Fein mulimaster. Not really a framing tool though.


Used it to cutout a section of rotted/eatin up bottom plate just a few weeks ago, worked like a charm.


----------



## Gary H

Didn't learn this in person but from a old book. Racking hardwood flooring so that all the grain flows together, before you nail it. May be common with the floor guys, but I have never seen it done in my area. I did it this spring on a floor and it turned out great. When it all layed out, it very easy to spot the odd piece, then the old way of grab and nail. Pray that it all blends in.


----------



## skyhook

actionman said:


> An old con-critter taught me to finish the tops of crete filled ballards with a plastic bag. gives a nice domed top.


What is a ballard? Don't laugh, dictionary.com doesn't know either.


----------



## Old Grumpy

skyhook said:


> What is a ballard? Don't laugh, dictionary.com doesn't know either.


Perhaps...bollard.


----------



## Spike7

silly simple trick i learned from a window installer years back.
when caulking , keep your index finger right at the tip of the caulk-tube -point , so as your pulling the trigger , your pointer-finger is pushing the caulk in place.you can move pretty quick this way.

it leaves the caulk line already smooth , and very little to wipe off.
my painter totally frowns on my doing this .
but i have less waste , and i can move a quick pace.

any one else out there do this?


----------



## duburban

tried it that way, don't do it full time yet.


----------



## Gary H

Spike7 said:


> silly simple trick i learned from a window installer years back.
> when caulking , keep your index finger right at the tip of the caulk-tube -point , so as your pulling the trigger , your pointer-finger is pushing the caulk in place.you can move pretty quick this way.
> 
> it leaves the caulk line already smooth , and very little to wipe off.
> my painter totally frowns on my doing this .
> but i have less waste , and i can move a quick pace.
> 
> any one else out there do this?


I needed to know that 6 hours ago. Next job I will try it.


----------



## 413Sean

A&E Exteriors said:


> Cutting bottom plates halfway through the undersides in doorways, makes cutting them out faster and you use far less sawzall blades too


Method I was taught years ago was to run em threw as everyone does, leave the jack studs out, unless loadbearing. once roof is weather tight one guy goes around with the circular saw the inch and a half way cuts em out while another guy goes threw measures and cuts jacks. Only exterior walls get cutout with sawzall where doors are


----------



## Jackpine Savage

Here's a few I haven't found on this thread:

Finding centers, especially on a long distance like a wall. Forget math. Just take a rough guess of center. For example, if the wall is 27' 3 3/16", just hook your tape on one end and make a mark at say 13' 6", hook the other end, make the same mark. Then find the center between the two marks. 

If you're framing and need to line up two warped studs, like kings/trimmers, you can pull up the low one very quickly by holding the safety back on your framing nailer, holding the tip shy of the board, and shooting a nail so that the head is proud. Then hook your hammer claw on this nail and pry against the proud board until they align, then shoot them. 

Running joists to a ledger without a helper? Nail a 16d hand nail about an inch from the end of the joist that butts the ledger, then bend it over the end. You can hook that nail onto the top of the ledger for a temporary holder. 

You can mark a shingle with the unsharpened end of your carpenter's pencil--the paint from the pencil shows up better than the lead.

Cut multiples whenever possible.

Leave your tape measure in your belt whenever possible.

You gotta clean up some time, might as well be now. You'll be more productive on a clean site.

Half the battle is getting your stepladder in the right spot.


----------



## A-1 Interiors

I learned a pretty good trick years ago when doing demo and need to pry off something stubborn grab a 2 x4 and use it for leverage to pry makes very easy work of even the most stubborn work ex a strong back on the gable ( using on edge for ultimate strength) usually something started with a bar (cause you need space to start with) but after that initial space its almost effortless with a stud just have to be carefull not to get clobbered by the peice lol


----------



## skyhook

Speaking of clean up. Throw down a cheap, 5'x7' blue tarp under your portable table saw or behind your chop saw. When done, fold up the tarp and carry it to the trash can. No sweeping required.


----------



## A-1 Interiors

Jackpine Savage said:


> Here's a few I haven't found on this thread:
> 
> Finding centers, especially on a long distance like a wall. Forget math. Just take a rough guess of center. For example, if the wall is 27' 3 3/16", just hook your tape on one end and make a mark at say 13' 6", hook the other end, make the same mark. Then find the center between the two marks.
> 
> If you're framing and need to line up two warped studs, like kings/trimmers, you can pull up the low one very quickly by holding the safety back on your framing nailer, holding the tip shy of the board, and shooting a nail so that the head is proud. Then hook your hammer claw on this nail and pry against the proud board until they align, then shoot them.
> 
> Running joists to a ledger without a helper? Nail a 16d hand nail about an inch from the end of the joist that butts the ledger, then bend it over the end. You can hook that nail onto the top of the ledger for a temporary holder.
> 
> You can mark a shingle with the unsharpened end of your carpenter's pencil--the paint from the pencil shows up better than the lead.
> 
> Cut multiples whenever possible.
> 
> Leave your tape measure in your belt whenever possible.
> 
> You gotta clean up some time, might as well be now. You'll be more productive on a clean site.
> 
> Half the battle is getting your stepladder in the right spot.


another framing one similar to shooting the nail proud is pry the shy side up with your claw and lay a spike under the shy peice then let wall back down then stud is usually a little high tap it down and then nail as usual (remeber to knock spacer nail of other side after standing wall as the head is usually stuck in the stud a little but same idea
great tricks here guys


----------



## A-1 Interiors

also have one for blue board hanging 
a lot of guys throw up full 4 foot sheet for top of wall then they rip the bottom sheet and have to roll the sheet over for the tapered edges to meet (so you roll over 70/80/100 sheets a day ?) ex ; if the ceiling is 7-6 i cut 5 inches off my top sheet hang it then use the full 4 footer on the bottom eliminating the need to roll any sheets much more efficient in my opinion 
note some guys dont want the tapered edge cut off if it's a drywall and tape job but corners are easy any way so i hang blue or white board this way


----------



## JR Shepstone

Hope this isn't a repeat or too common knowledge, but it's new to me.

To rip a taper on a piece of material, run a scrap piece of plywood with a factory edge against the fence through the tablesaw. Next make your marks for the desired width on the piece to be tapered and screw the plywood onto the marks. Without having to readjust the blade you can send the two pieces through using the plywood as the guide, ripping the taper, and keeping your fingers intact.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Jackpine Savage said:


> Here's a few I haven't found on this thread:
> 
> Finding centers, especially on a long distance like a wall. Forget math. Just take a rough guess of center. For example, if the wall is 27' 3 3/16", just hook your tape on one end and make a mark at say 13' 6", hook the other end, make the same mark. Then find the center between the two marks.
> 
> If you're framing and need to line up two warped studs, like kings/trimmers, you can pull up the low one very quickly by holding the safety back on your framing nailer, holding the tip shy of the board, and shooting a nail so that the head is proud. Then hook your hammer claw on this nail and pry against the proud board until they align, then shoot them.
> 
> Running joists to a ledger without a helper? Nail a 16d hand nail about an inch from the end of the joist that butts the ledger, then bend it over the end. You can hook that nail onto the top of the ledger for a temporary holder.
> 
> You can mark a shingle with the unsharpened end of your carpenter's pencil--the paint from the pencil shows up better than the lead.
> 
> Cut multiples whenever possible.
> 
> Leave your tape measure in your belt whenever possible.
> 
> You gotta clean up some time, might as well be now. You'll be more productive on a clean site.
> 
> Half the battle is getting your stepladder in the right spot.


This is a great list! Young guys ask questions if needed these are money makers and time savers:thumbsup:


----------



## mbryan

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> these are money makers


Oh yeah, we'll you should see my money maker!


----------



## kiteman

A-1 INTERIORS said:


> another framing one similar to shooting the nail proud is pry the shy side up with your claw and lay a spike under the shy peice then let wall back down then stud is usually a little high tap it down and then nail as usual (remeber to knock spacer nail of other side after standing wall as the head is usually stuck in the stud a little but same idea
> great tricks here guys


Jeez! why not just grab a slammer out of your bags and toenail the sumb*tch over!


----------



## A&E Exteriors

How about keep a couple lbs of full size ring shanks around for draw power


----------



## A-1 Interiors

kiteman said:


> Jeez! why not just grab a slammer out of your bags and toenail the sumb*tch over!


 i was refering to a different situation ex a partition backer when the deck/floor is dipped and one side of the backer is lower than the wall plate insert spike under it to flush to the plate then nail :thumbsup:
but i thought this was about tricks we wanted to share not about rolling our eyes at others suggestions 
you could probably find 10 ways to fix something that differ from how i would do it but neither are probably wrong i try to keep work clean and hack free


----------



## Leo G

I don't understand why Snobnd hasn't posted in this thread. He comes over to my shop and is constantly writing in his imaginary notebook as he steals information and tricks from me when he comes and visits me at my shop :w00t::laughing:


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Leo G said:


> I don't understand why Snobnd hasn't posted in this thread. He comes over to my shop and is constantly writing in his imaginary notebook as he steals information and tricks from me when he comes and visits me at my shop :w00t::laughing:


Have you sobered up:blink:


----------



## Leo G

Was never drunk. I'm a lightweight, but not with 2 drinks.


----------



## kiteman

A-1 INTERIORS said:


> i was refering to a different situation ex a partition backer when the deck/floor is dipped and one side of the backer is lower than the wall plate insert spike under it to flush to the plate then nail :thumbsup:
> but i thought this was about tricks we wanted to share not about rolling our eyes at others suggestions
> you could probably find 10 ways to fix something that differ from how i would do it but neither are probably wrong i try to keep work clean and hack free


Sorry about my rant.I might have got carried away a little combined with an earlier post about a nail gun trick that, to me, is neither old school or safe. I'm getting pretty close to being an "old schooler" myself and I think the technique of toenailing to make wood move has been largely forgotten. Whether you're flushing up trimmers to king studs or plates, or drawing a partition up tight, it gets the job done. I just don't think we should promote some practices that are of a questionable nature. If toenailing makes me a hack, well, I guess I'll just keep hacking away. Just my two cents.


----------



## livingsoulsdie

kiteman said:


> Sorry about my rant.I might have got carried away a little combined with an earlier post about a nail gun trick that, to me, is neither old school or safe. I'm getting pretty close to being an "old schooler" myself and I think the technique of toenailing to make wood move has been largely forgotten. Whether you're flushing up trimmers to king studs or plates, or drawing a partition up tight, it gets the job done. I just don't think we should promote some practices that are of a questionable nature. If toenailing makes me a hack, well, I guess I'll just keep hacking away. Just my two cents.


Same here I toenail to get my trimmers and any ganged framing perfectly flush. I would never hold the safety and shoot the nail though, that is just crazy unsafe. My pouch always has 10d's in it for crap like that. I mean if you are that lazy and you are hell bent on using the gun then just take the depth setter all the way out and shoot.


----------



## [email protected]

Read the whole thread. Some good tips but most are sop. Heres one I havent seen. When cutting out for outlet/switch boxes, etc. In drywall, Back bevel the cuts so if your a little off you can easily trim it with a knife.

When repairing ext trim profiles with epoxy get a plastic putty knife and cut it to the profile. Much easier to patch and sand for a flawless repair. For deep rot ,dig out all rot,use expanding foam to fill most of the void. After it dries finish with epoxy.

Great thread. Keep em coming.


----------



## William James

Im just wondering if Leo ever got sober or woke up at his 12:? Post. And if Sno will share those secrets! Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## livingsoulsdie

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Why not I do it all the time one handed:blink: How else would you tack nail something:whistling My old school Hitachis don't have no stinkin depth setter:no:
> 
> Well before they even had framing gun hooks we would hold the safety back with the index finger and shoot the nail with the middle finger to hang the gun when working in the rafters or trusses. And if you don't do it than it's hard to say if it's safe or not:blink: I've been doing it for over 25 years and yet to hurt myself that way:clap:


Hey man, do what ever works for you. I see it as you could have been doing that for 25 years and have no problem , but it only takes that one time where the nail ricochets off and gets you in the eye or some freak thing like that. I do know man maybe I'm just a *itch or something. To each his own. Safety 3rd :laughing:


----------



## Spike7

skyhook said:


> Speaking of clean up. Throw down a cheap, 5'x7' blue tarp under your portable table saw or behind your chop saw. When done, fold up the tarp and carry it to the trash can. No sweeping required.


this is so simple it pisses me off!!
this last 2 weeks i used both miter , and table saw on the joball day .
i`d sweep up what i could , and blow the rest off the driveway . but after 2 weeks there wastones of saw dust in the grass , and plants from blowing it off every day 

" ohwa ta jer kyam"


----------



## overanalyze

Not sure where I learned it. If a finish nail does not set all the way and I try set with my nail set..if its in a bad spot that is hollow behind the trim and won't set I will empty my finish gun, place the tip over the nail and fire. The drive pin will set it every time.


----------



## r4r&r

overanalyze said:


> Not sure where I learned it. If a finish nail does not set all the way and I try set with my nail set..if its in a bad spot that is hollow behind the trim and won't set I will empty my finish gun, place the tip over the nail and fire. The drive pin will set it every time.


I hate when I learn something that is so simple but I would have never figured it out.


----------



## LEVELBEST

Spike7 said:


> this is so simple it pisses me off!!
> this last 2 weeks i used both miter , and table saw on the joball day .
> i`d sweep up what i could , and blow the rest off the driveway . but after 2 weeks there wastones of saw dust in the grass , and plants from blowing it off every day
> 
> " ohwa ta jer kyam"


OR, just use your Festool dust extractors even when your cutting on the customers driveway......which I have seriously done before. :thumbsup:
I had one job where the yard and house were IMMACULATE before I arrived, and I was installing pre-finished stained trim over freshly finished hardwoods. I backed my trailer in, set up a tailgate tent, and set up my miter saw and table saw, then hooked them up to CT26's. The only dust left to clean up at the end of the day was what came off of the grinder from my copes. :clap:


----------



## TriSailor

Along time ago , I used to run a lot of sheet paneling . Here is a great trick . Take some glue or latex caulk , put it on the edges of the electric boxes . Hold paneling where it goes , then bump it where the boxes are . This puts an exact imprint on the back of the paneling . It also works great for base , if you have outlets in them.


----------



## hdavis

TriSailor said:


> Along time ago , I used to run a lot of sheet paneling . Here is a great trick . Take some glue or latex caulk , put it on the edges of the electric boxes . Hold paneling where it goes , then bump it where the boxes are . This puts an exact imprint on the back of the paneling . It also works great for base , if you have outlets in them.


Some electrical inspectors have a thing about failing boxes with paint on them. In that case, you can rub you pencil along the edge, and may be able to get a transfer, or use carbon paper.


----------



## elementbldrs

Lipstick


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

skyhook said:


> Speaking of clean up. Throw down a cheap, 5'x7' blue tarp under your portable table saw or behind your chop saw. When done, fold up the tarp and carry it to the trash can. No sweeping required.


Did this today..


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

I should have wore one..









I call it dust containment..


----------



## ROVACON

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I should have wore one..
> 
> View attachment 75950
> 
> 
> I call it dust containment..


Matt, don't forget to empty your shoes too :laughing:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

ROVACON said:


> Matt, don't forget to empty your shoes too :laughing:


I did


----------



## hdavis

elementbldrs said:


> Lipstick



That's pretty hard core...


----------



## Gary H

I don't know any guys that would admit to carrying that in thier truck. I like the glue idea posted above.


----------



## hdavis

elementbldrs said:


> Lipstick


That's why the girls were at Davinci's site...


----------



## Warren

elementbldrs said:


> Lipstick


Works great for marking the pin on the french door sill and head pin locations.

Or so I've heard...:whistling


----------



## catfish/carpent

i like the finish nail trick with the gun when not all the way set, double fire it, with out the nails to set it, just make sure your half way close to the same whole not to make a giant whole, and another thing that was simple that i didn't know was with a hammer drill to set one of your anchor bolts in the concrete with the hammer drill instead of your hammer fast and quick, but im a burn out so i can't see the simple things so easy


----------



## JSM_CC

*16sinker tricks*

old timer showed me how to nail to 2x's together 1-1/2 edge to 1-1/2 edge without "shinning" through. slightly bend (22.5 degrees) 1/2" from the tip of the nail in your hammer claws, then make sure to adjust your swing angle as you pound it in at an angle. It will curve through.

if when nailing off the roof you have too many shiners, nail about 8 - 16s in a close group on one end of a long 2x4 and beat up the nails with it from below.

grab a handfull of nails out of your bag grip them with both hands and wiggle back and forth and pull apart. If done correctly you should have seperated the nails laying opposite ended so that you can easily flip them over and have a full handfull all facing the same way. 

a properly face nailed 16 can hold 400lbs latterally before bending.




THERE'S A DIFFERRENCE BETWEEN A TRACT RAT AND A HACK!


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

JSM_CC said:


> if when nailing off the roof you have too many shiners, nail about 8 - 16s in a close group on one end of a long 2x4 and beat up the nails with it from below.


I just nail on one h2.5 on the end of a 2x4 and scuf it on the ground so it grips the shiner:thumbsup:


----------



## A&E Exteriors

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> I just nail on one h2.5 on the end of a 2x4 and scuf it on the ground so it grips the shiner:thumbsup:


I just hit the truss :thumbup:


----------



## 413Sean

Ninjaframer said:


> I used to snap alot of the second floors on my trac in Vegas by myself using 8's. It sucked. The one thing I did to speed it up was I had a 100' tape for each floor plan with the walls colored on the tape and than clear packing tape over it to make it permanent. I used red for all the walls going left to right and blue for the wall going back to front. Didn't have all the walls like closets and what not but all the longer walls were labeled on the tape, cut way down on the amount of 8's  I only had 4 floor plans on the trac and only 2 were 2 story. Each plan had different front elevations but the floor layout were basically the same.


Dang this has got me confused..so what held one end of the chalk line? I have seen the awl method used, from ol timers I have framed with(that's Wht this threads about rite?) Just never got around to carrying one in my bags, cause they usually have 8s and spikes in em


----------



## Spike7

2 were 2 story 8`s


----------



## 91782

Spike7 said:


> 2 were 2 story 8`s


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
:no:


----------



## Rich D.

Instead of getting an awl with the wood handle get the bostich all metal one. This way it can be used to punch holes in ceiling angle for the fence staples.


----------



## Ninjaframer

413Sean said:


> Dang this has got me confused..so what held one end of the chalk line? I have seen the awl method used, from ol timers I have framed with(that's Wht this threads about rite?) Just never got around to carrying one in my bags, cause they usually have 8s and spikes in em


I thought we were talking about laying out by yourself. Didn't know it was a thread about chalking lines. My bad


----------



## [email protected]

Talking about chalking lines, I hate poppin fat lines. To get a clean line pull it tight and pop the excess chalk in the air then pop your line. Gives you a good clean line.


----------



## skyhook

Spray some water down before you snap a line if you want it to show up good. 
Spray the chalk line with clear enamel if you don't want it to get swept away.


----------



## skyhook

> Originally Posted by *skyhook*
> A masons line block, tied to the bitter end of a chalk line works good too.





Rich D. said:


> I was laying out in an interior room. No slab edge in sight...


I can't be there for your every need.


----------



## Brutus

skyhook said:


> Spray some water down before you snap a line if you want it to show up good.
> Spray the chalk line with clear enamel if you don't want it to get swept away.


We've used this chalk for a while now. Snap lines, and hurricane rains will not wash them away.


----------



## FramingPro

Brutus said:


> We've used this chalk for a while now. Snap lines, and hurricane rains will not wash them away.


in the word of larry haun 
"and its a DAMN good chalk" :laughing:


----------



## Ninjaframer

If I want lines to be permanent I mix in some concrete dye. Works fantastic!


----------



## donerightwyo

We had a guy snap lines for hundreds of feet of ceiling wall moulding with black concrete dye, to the bottom of the track. Genius, it took days to paint and clean that mess up.


----------



## Rich D.

donerightwyo said:


> We had a guy snap lines for hundreds of feet of ceiling wall moulding with black concrete dye, to the bottom of the track. Genius, it took days to paint and clean that mess up.


He needs to get himself a laser!


----------



## TimberlineMD

Old timer told me.. "In this business you can't help but go hungry sometimes... but you, for sure can help yourself to not be hungry AND TIRED at the same time!" :thumbsup:


----------



## JackA

How much daylight do you have left?

Extend your arm full length pointing between the sun and horizon. Turn the back or palm of your hand toward you with your fingers horizontal.

Each finger width between the sun and horizon is approx 15 minutes of daylight left.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

JackA said:


> How much daylight do you have left?
> 
> Extend your arm full length pointing between the sun and horizon. Turn the back or palm of your hand toward you with your fingers horizontal.
> 
> Each finger width between the sun and horizon is approx 15 minutes of daylight left.


Are your fingers open or closed:blink:


----------



## JackA

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Are your fingers open or closed:blink:



They would normally be closed if you were measuring 4 fingers worth at a time. But it might be 45 minutes until dark so you saw that 3 fingers was all that fit.

The cool thing is, people with small fingers usually have shorter arms - so, their fingers are closer to their face - which makes up for the smaller fingers.

Now, if you have skinny, bony fingers - but have arms like an orangutang, you might might have to adjust it to 12 minutes per finger or whatever.


----------



## Rich D.

Yea i saw that on a survival show. Four fingers is 1 hour from the horizon to the sun.


----------



## Stunt Carpenter

Rich D. said:


> Yea i saw that on a survival show. Four fingers is 1 hour from the horizon to the sun.


I think I saw it on survivor man a few years back


----------



## Rich D.

AirdrieHandyman said:


> I think I saw it on survivor man a few years back


Yup thats where i saw it!!


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

donerightwyo said:


> We had a guy snap lines for hundreds of feet of ceiling wall moulding with black concrete dye, to the bottom of the track. Genius, it took days to paint and clean that mess up.


Thats terrible. I would have painted that mess pre wall angle and then found a new line snapper. Who snaps to the bottom anyways?


----------



## hdavis

Boat loads of stuff on router work from the old guy in this program (and he's faster than blue blazes):

http://www.routerworkshop.com/


----------



## Rich D.

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thats terrible. I would have painted that mess pre wall angle and then found a new line snapper. Who snaps to the bottom anyways?


Who snaps lines for angle anymore. Lasers all the way!


----------



## donerightwyo

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thats terrible. I would have painted that mess pre wall angle and then found a new line snapper. Who snaps to the bottom anyways?


That black would bleed through the paint, took several coats. Of course he had just filled his box so it would drift all the way down the wall. The guy was a moron, I shouldn't talk bad about the deceased but it is the truth. His old lady shot him in the belly with a 12 gauge.


Oh yeah, we have a ceiling laser, but that isn't how he was taught


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

Rich D. said:


> Who snaps lines for angle anymore. Lasers all the way!


Guys with small rooms, unlevel ceilings, no laser, laser across town, and ofcourse those who do not believe in lasers...


----------



## hdavis

Rich D. said:


> Who snaps lines for angle anymore. Lasers all the way!


Do some renos on 140 year old buildings and you'll find out:whistling


----------



## donerightwyo

I will snap lines a lot. Use the laser to mark the corners and then snap. I try to snap to the top though:laughing: These old remodels don't always allow for a level ceiling.

I also will use the laser to pre bend all the wire. Super fast and flat install then:thumbsup:


----------



## Rich D.

I was just kidding about the laser.

Ive done plenty of rooms that i went around with a 4' level and a pencil.

Though i do prefer a laser....

If i snap lines for angle i use purple chalk. This way if it goes somewhere i dont want it to it cleans off.


----------



## Rich D.

donerightwyo said:


> I also will use the laser to pre bend all the wire. Super fast and flat install then:thumbsup:


How does that work for you?

When i was learning how to do ceilings i asked an old timmer if thats what you do. I got yelled at :laughing:

For large rooms and long spans its the only way to go. But i usually put just enough bend in the wire to hold it up then i come back set the laser for 2 inches below the finished ceiling hight and go around and measure and adjust all wire.

I was always taught to at first make the ceiling alittle higher than lower. Its easier to bend the wire to bring it down then to go back up.


----------



## donerightwyo

We remodeled an old school with 1000 sq ft rooms. We hung all the wires from the ceiling first and it worked awesome. Granted though the old ceiling had tiles on it so it was super easy to get exact placement on the wire. The wires have to be exactly placed for good results.


----------



## Rich D.

Did u pre bend all the wire wire 2" above the finished ceiling height?

The fun ceilings are the ones u need to use pencil rod for.


----------



## donerightwyo

Rich D. said:


> How does that work for you?
> 
> When i was learning how to do ceilings i asked an old timmer if thats what you do. I got yelled at :laughing:
> 
> For large rooms and long spans its the only way to go. But i usually put just enough bend in the wire to hold it up then i come back set the laser for 2 inches below the finished ceiling hight and go around and measure and adjust all wire.
> 
> I was always taught to at first make the ceiling alittle higher than lower. Its easier to bend the wire to bring it down then to go back up.


I would agree with all of that. I think length of wire always comes into play. Longer wires seem to go faster. I hate when you have to do like a three inch drop


----------



## Rich D.

donerightwyo said:


> I would agree with all of that. I think length of wire always comes into play. Longer wires seem to go faster. I hate when you have to do like a three inch drop


U mean when u can barely fit the tile in? :laughing: yea i love those..


----------



## KnottyWoodwork

skyhook said:


> Spray some water down before you snap a line if you want it to show up good.
> Spray the chalk line with clear enamel if you don't want it to get swept away.


Not sure if it was mentioned yet... 
Hairspray works if you want the line to be seen while working, but not permanent. Water washes off the spray, and then the line, for easy clean up.


----------



## Rich D.

Also if you want to notice the mark easier (so it dont get lost) orange marking paint over a red or black chalk line works well. It shows through and its easy to spot.


----------



## donerightwyo

Rich D. said:


> Did u pre bend all the wire wire 2" above the finished ceiling height?
> 
> The fun ceilings are the ones u need to use pencil rod for.


I would set the laser to where the placement of my ***** would just show the lazer on the wire, and then would bend them just past 90 so they could be adjusted if needed I'm sure I had an exact measurement but must have forgotten to right it down:laughing: we could knock out the grid in a room in a few hours, the old ceiling tiles was the key to the speed on his one.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

AirdrieHandyman said:


> I think I saw it on survivor man a few years back


Dose it work:blink: have you tried it:blink:


----------



## Rich D.

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Dose it work:blink: have you tried it:blink:


Its better than guessing..


----------



## Birch

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Dose it work:blink: have you tried it:blink:


No real mystery in the way this works. Take 12 hours of daylight and divide by 2, equals 6 hours. On the average day we can assume 6 hours of light from Dawn horizon to High Noon and 6 more from noon to Dusk. Using your hand to divide half the totla daylight arc of the sky by 6 hours/hands, reveals a quarter hour per finger. 

At arm's length works for most people.


----------



## JesseCocozza

Birch said:


> No real mystery in the way this works. Take 12 hours of daylight and divide by 2, equals 6 hours. On the average day we can assume 6 hours of light from Dawn horizon to High Noon and 6 more from noon to Dusk. Using your hand to divide half the totla daylight arc of the sky by 6 hours/hands, reveals a quarter hour per finger.
> 
> At arm's length works for most people.


Wouldn't it depend on your proximity to the equator?


----------



## Birch

JesseCocozza said:


> Wouldn't it depend on your proximity to the equator?


Or the poles where the sun never sets on either equinox, so the season can also affect it. 

It just lets you know approximately how much light of day is left or has past, or close approximate time if you know your sunrise and set times. You can adjust your arms arc length to make better time calcs, if it helps. Fairly accurate. A third of a finger is 5 mins.


Isaac Newton used it.


I've been using it forever. :sleep1:


----------



## elementbldrs

Learned this one over the weekend. Total duh moment. Had to cut a bunch of 67.5° cuts on some 2x12 joists for a deck. I thought I was slick using my 12" speed square close to the cut with saw at 45° and testing distance of square from blade under saw shoe to get the angle I was looking for. 

My partner and mentor grabs saw after watching me struggle but being all proud because I improvised... he cuts down the grain end of the board at 22.5°.... rookie is all I was told as he walked off.


----------



## Leo G

Math is a wonderful thing now isn't it?


----------



## elementbldrs

I think my problem was less of a math equation and more of looking outside of my intended cut line. 

But yes, I had a 90° cut allready being the end of the board. Just take my 22.5 off of that... bada bing.


----------



## skyhook

Rich D. said:


> I was just kidding about the laser.
> 
> Ive done plenty of rooms that i went around with a 4' level and a pencil.
> 
> Though i do prefer a laser....
> 
> If i snap lines for angle i use purple chalk. This way if it goes somewhere i dont want it to it cleans off.


Chalk lines are for flat work. Any line snapped on a wall will have some "sag". 
Just the weight of the string will make it droop and your molding will have whoop-dee-doos. 
Thank god for lazers. :thumbsup:


----------



## Brian Peters

skyhook said:


> Chalk lines are for flat work. Any line snapped on a wall will have some "sag".
> Just the weight of the string will make it droop and your molding will have whoop-dee-doos.
> Thank god for lazers. :thumbsup:


Not sure what you use in the way of chalk lines...I agree there is probably a certain amount of "sag"...but in an average sized room I don't imagine it would be enough to be visually perceived as a "whoop-dee-doo"


----------



## Rich D.

skyhook said:


> Chalk lines are for flat work. Any line snapped on a wall will have some "sag".
> Just the weight of the string will make it droop and your molding will have whoop-dee-doos.
> Thank god for lazers. :thumbsup:


Maybe if your snapping a 100' wall your going to have alittle sag.

For a normal room you will not notice any "whoop-dee-doos". If you wrap the string around your finger and pull your string tight youll be fine for 80% of the rooms youll run into. 

How do you think they did it before lasers?

I do use lasers in any room bigger than 8x8. I set one wall with angle, clamp on my laser to that and im set for the room. Its so quick...


----------



## Brutus

elementbldrs said:


> Learned this one over the weekend. Total duh moment. Had to cut a bunch of 67.5° cuts on some 2x12 joists for a deck. I thought I was slick using my 12" speed square close to the cut with saw at 45° and testing distance of square from blade under saw shoe to get the angle I was looking for.
> 
> My partner and mentor grabs saw after watching me struggle but being all proud because I improvised... he cuts down the grain end of the board at 22.5°.... rookie is all I was told as he walked off.


I use this trick all the time when framing winder stairs. Total wow moment when it was first shown to me.

The shop supervisor during my apprenticeship classes almost lost it on me when I was doing it with his new *MAKITA* Hypoid, though... :whistling


----------



## Gary H

If working in a low income housing and no one living there at the time , flea bomb the place the day before. Kills the flys, fleas and everthing else that wants to bite or crawel on you.


----------



## skyhook

Rich D. said:


> How do you think they did it before lasers?


Water levels. :thumbup:


----------



## Brian Peters

skyhook said:


> Water levels. :thumbup:


Together with chalk line


----------



## Rich D.

skyhook said:


> Water levels. :thumbup:


Still need a chalk line to connect those 2 marks.

Any time i do demo on drop ceilings for new, i see the chalk line they snapped on the wall.


----------



## skyhook

Rich D. said:


> Still need a chalk line to connect those 2 marks.
> 
> Any time i do demo on drop ceilings for new, i see the chalk line they snapped on the wall.


Ok. Lets just say any chalk line longer than 10', snapped on a verticle surface will have _some sag_. :thumbsup:


----------



## Rich D.

skyhook said:


> Ok. Lets just say any chalk line longer than 10', snapped on a verticle surface will have some sag. :thumbsup:


So how do you layout for ceiling angle, without a laser on a large room.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

skyhook said:


> Ok. Lets just say any chalk line longer than 10', snapped on a verticle surface will have _some sag_. :thumbsup:


NO ,,you just have to pull it tighter..


----------



## ACG

Here are a couple that come to mind..

-Wear good boots and take care of your feet. You're nothing without your feet.

-Grease your equipment weekly, know your swing radius and WEAR the SEATBELT! The ROPS are useless if your not strapped in.

-Wearing a harness will keep the safety officer happy, securing the lanyard to something will keep your family happy.


----------



## Rich D.

ACG said:


> -Wearing a harness will keep the safety officer happy, securing the lanyard to something will keep your family happy.


That isant true enough. A guy got killed recently when he got catapulted out of a boom lift. Was wearing his harness but it wasnt clipped to anything.


----------



## ACG

In Secaucus right?


----------



## Rich D.

ACG said:


> In Secaucus right?


Yup the guy was in a boom lift 30-40 feet up, he was wearing a harness but not clipped into the basket.

Two of the lifts wheels sank into the ground a few inches due too soft earth. We all know if a lift moves 1 inch its like a foot at the end of the boom. When the lift sank alittle the boom arm acted like a catapault, sending him out of the basket onto a 4 lane parkway. Died in the 2nd lane. I pass it everyday and still wont drive in that lane. If you have a harness on remember to clip on!!!


----------



## Greg from K/W

He did post to secure the lanyard right Go back and reread it. It was the idiots own fault.


----------



## Rich D.

Greg from K/W said:


> He did post to secure the lanyard right Go back and reread it. It was the idiots own fault.


? What


----------



## Greg from K/W

ACG said:


> Here are a couple that come to mind..
> 
> -Wear good boots and take care of your feet. You're nothing without your feet.
> 
> -Grease your equipment weekly, know your swing radius and WEAR the SEATBELT! The ROPS are useless if your not strapped in.
> 
> -Wearing a harness will keep the safety officer happy, securing the lanyard to something will keep your family happy.


This one he said attach the lanyard right? If your moving a stinking lift attach to it. That guy was brain dead.


----------



## FramingPro

How about the elastic band in the stripped screw trick?


----------



## Brutus

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> NO ,,you just have to pull it tighter..


To add to that:


have a guy go to the centre of the line, and get him to pull on it, too. You will be surprised how much more slack you can pull out of the line by doing this.


----------



## pappagor

DeCloud said:


> I am a trim finish carpenter ome pretty useful trick I learned was if a raw piece of finish grade piece of material has an imperfection such as a hammer mark or other indention, is to rub your saliva on it. Within about a half hour the wood will swell and can be lightly sanded afterward leaving no scarring.


use a walnut


----------



## Tom M

care to elborate on that walnut


----------



## buzzards27

Hardly Working said:


> Back when I was just a kid my grandfather use to run his finish nails through his hair to grease them up to drive smoother through hard woods. He use to use VO5 from back in the day when greased back hair was the thing.
> 
> Who remebers the DA and I don't mean like Dual Action sander.
> 
> What did term DA refer to anybody?


Started off with an old timer that filled the end of his finish hammer handle with beeswax to coat nail (and screws).

I have one for concealing finish nails he showed me any guesses first?


----------



## buzzards27

Ninjaframer said:


> I used to snap alot of the second floors on my trac in Vegas by myself using 8's. It sucked. The one thing I did to speed it up was I had a 100' tape for each floor plan with the walls colored on the tape and than clear packing tape over it to make it permanent. I used red for all the walls going left to right and blue for the wall going back to front. Didn't have all the walls like closets and what not but all the longer walls were labeled on the tape, cut way down on the amount of 8's  I only had 4 floor plans on the trac and only 2 were 2 story. Each plan had different front elevations but the floor layout were basically the same.


I learned to use 8d nails tapped in on the intersection of the lines. If they're tapped in leaving about 3/8" exposed not only does it make an anchor for your chalkline, FOR BOTH LINES, it also serves as an anchor point for your tape (most tapes I've used have a slot on the hook that a 8d fits perfectly). Most of the time the 8d just remained or were hammered in flush.

The nice part is once you hooked a corner you could snap or measure in both direction, just stand up and walk as the string or tape pivoted on the nail.


----------



## donerightwyo

When trying to run hard maple through the moulder, wet it with a sponge just before it enters to help reduce chip out.

This came from Leo, he's an old schooler and I certainly didn't know it.:thumbsup:


----------



## hdavis

buzzards27 said:


> I have one for concealing finish nails he showed me any guesses first?


The old chisel a chip and glue it back down trick? (forgot I even knew that one)


----------



## sevonty

when setting cabinets I have a chaulk line I filled with 10# test fishing line and blue chaulk, the line is small and usees very little chaulk

when cutting a small piece of trim mark out the lines then drive nails through the board, then cut marks now when you drive nails in the wood will not split.


when looking for a stud in a finished wall remeber like most people 90% of eletricians are right handed and when they nail box to wall the stud will be on the left side of the box

on hot summer day to avoid monkey butt putt in man-pax, a folded over wad of toilet paper between the cheeks will stop chafieng before it happens. baby powder turns to grit and makes it worse.

tell customers the job can be good, fast, cheep. they can have two of those but not three


----------



## buzzards27

hdavis said:


> The old chisel a chip and glue it back down trick? (forgot I even knew that one)


My guy simply used a pocket knife in soft wood, but a concave carving tool works well. To be clear you only "peel up" the grain enuf to set the nail in place. You do not chop the piece out completely.

Few others,

We used a finish nail, with the head nipped off, in a drill to create nail holes to prevent splicing.

As a quick guide for nailing along a overhang, such as a stair nosing or deck overhang. Take a standard folding rule, fold out two leaves from the top and bottom. Press the bottom leaves against the face and top leaves, as long as you are level, should reflect the location of the face below. No measuring, no marking, no shiners becuz something wandered off.

I keep seeing discussions about tight joint in casing. Someone mudding in the adjacent wall... I've always trial fit with a hair to spare and will recut the miter while tipping the front or back edge up off the saw bed, as needed, to approximate the out of plain condition. I can usually close as much as 3/16" out of plane issue without backcutting or rasping either piece.

I have several pipe clamps that have a hole at the end instead of the sliding foot. Doing decking and framing, It helps to draw up the ones that are fighting you. Just screw down the end and tighten things up.


----------



## overanalyze

For razor sharp paint lines using regular painters tape, after applying the tape, seal the edge of the tape with the color your are painting over. Do not use the opposite color first. Once the base color seals the tape edge then paint with the other color. Pull the tape and admire razor lines. Works on painted trim too!


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

overanalyze said:


> For razor sharp paint lines using regular painters tape, after applying the tape, seal the edge of the tape with the color your are painting over. Do not use the opposite color first. Once the base color seals the tape edge then paint with the other color. Pull the tape and admire razor lines. Works on painted trim too!


And thats genius. Have you ever had a problem with the first coat peeling when you remove the tape because it is dry?


----------



## overanalyze

ohiohomedoctor said:


> And thats genius. Have you ever had a problem with the first coat peeling when you remove the tape because it is dry?


Not with properly prepped, primered trim/drywall. If its real green, I would wait a day or use the delicate surface tape.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

overanalyze said:


> Not with properly prepped, primered trim/drywall. If its real green, I would wait a day or use the delicate surface tape.


Im going to try this on a project we have going now. My client is only comparable to the ss of paint..


----------



## overanalyze

And I am not using regular masking tape. I buy 3m in bulk, the regular blue painters tape. I don't use old school beige tape for anything.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

I buy the blue 3m tape every year from Ace when they have there bucket sale. You can fit a lot of rolls of tape into a bucket. Some stores even let me use 3m coupons too.

I also have lots of blue tape..


----------



## overanalyze

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I buy the blue 3m tape every year from Ace when they have there bucket sale. You can fit a lot of rolls of tape into a bucket. Some stores even let me use 3m coupons too.
> 
> I also have lots of blue tape..


Sherwin Williams 40% sale a couple times a year. We buy cases of it for stock. We use it for caulking, to painting, to protection hold down!


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

overanalyze said:


> Sherwin Williams 40% sale a couple times a year. We buy cases of it for stock. We use it for caulking, to painting, to protection hold down!


When I priced it with my sales guys the 40% off was still higher than the bucket price by a little.


----------



## skyhook

When someone smashes thier finger at work, tell them "the best thing to do is go home and soak it in cider".


----------



## CENTERLINE MV

Leo G said:


> If you have an air nail that doesn't set you can take the nails out of the gun and center the gun on top of the nail and fire again. It'll push it below the surface.



I recently read this post of yours Leo from a few years ago and tried it today because I forgot I unplugged the compressor. It worked fantastic for setting the two finish nails that were proud!


----------



## Leo G

Or you could use these.


http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11257


----------



## topquality

jchomes said:


> we call the 16 penny nail trick to hold some thing the 20 k year it will make up for a labor and doesnt talk back great trick:thumbsup: marking sheating to rip rough or dry wall hold your tape with thumb on # and pensil on end let er fly, hammer drill 1/4 hole slam two galvy 16 same time to hold plates to concrete. any trick helps production goes in the vault


That's what I do with an 8 penny nail. I call it my 8 dallor man. I also ride my guys with it when they are slow. I simple walk up to them pull a 8 penny out of my bags and ask them if they know what it is. Then I replied its your replacement if you don't pick up the pace


----------



## C2projects

When needing to hand nail a corner to make it tight and you don't have the space needed to hammer. if you bend the tip of a 3" nail slightly to give yourself a bit more room to swing.


----------



## IrishAsh

gdwoodbutcher said:


> I learned that the mark you leave on wood with your hammer is called a donkey track, because only an *** would do it!!!


Haha very good.

A trick I was taught when hammering on work like this was hammer your nail as normal until your final blow.

Swing with normal force but leave your wrist and grip slightly limp allowing the head of the hammer to spring back away from the wood surface.

Check it out, it actually works


----------



## joee134

Stickering.... Say you need to cut/make an odd shaped piece, could be a baywindow sill, counter top, stair tread... anything. (black line)

1- Take a smaller piece of scrap plywood (orange) and fasten it so it doesn't move.

2- take a straight sticker with a sharp point (yellow) and lay it across the plywood with the sharp point on the corner you want to mark.

3- Now draw a line on the plywood next to the sticker with a matching hash mark on the sticker AND the plywood. (purple line) 

4- Number all the hash marks on the plywood AND the sticker till all the corners are marked.

5- Now you can secure (tape) the plywood scrap on the good material and match up all the hash marks/lines to locate the points on your good material.

The best part is you can leave the bevel square and tape mesure in the truck.


----------



## Brian Peters

joee134 said:


> Stickering.... Say you need to cut/make an odd shaped piece, could be a baywindow sill, counter top, stair tread... anything. (black line)
> 
> 1- Take a smaller piece of scrap plywood (orange) and fasten it so it doesn't move.
> 
> 2- take a straight sticker with a sharp point (yellow) and lay it across the plywood with the sharp point on the corner you want to mark.
> 
> 3- Now draw a line on the plywood next to the sticker with a matching hash mark on the sticker AND the plywood. (purple line)
> 
> 4- Number all the hash marks on the plywood AND the sticker till all the corners are marked.
> 
> 5- Now you can secure (tape) the plywood scrap on the good material and match up all the hash marks/lines to locate the points on your good material.
> 
> The best part is you can leave the bevel square and tape mesure in the truck.


Thanks for posting this ...I was thinking about this a while back, I read an article in a magazine once that described this and I had forgotten the details. I was gonna ask on CT but couldn't remember what it was called


----------



## CENTERLINE MV

I like it but I think most times rippings of 1/8" luan and hot glue to make a template would be easier.


----------



## hdavis

CENTERLINE MV said:


> I like it but I think most times rippings of 1/8" luan and hot glue to make a template would be easier.


Both have advantages. The ply and stick are reusable with just a quick spray of BIN, or whatever.


----------



## ubcguy89

I have learned alot from old timers, here are my most used tricks.

1. when measuring between objects for a tight fit use a folding rule with a sliding rule attached to it. 
2. how to do a 3 wall scribe on a countertop and get it perfect without the need for a backsplash using the tilt method
3. to carry about 50' of window sash chain to layout a radius 
4. no matter who you work with you can always learn something from them
5. I have been building so much with so little for so long, I can build anything with nothing


----------



## CENTERLINE MV

hdavis said:


> Both have advantages. The ply and stick are reusable with just a quick spray of BIN, or whatever.


Meh.... I'll stick with the templates.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

ubcguy89 said:


> 5. I have been building so much with so little for so long, I can build anything with nothing


:blink::blink:


----------



## hdavis

CENTERLINE MV said:


> Meh.... I'll stick with the templates.


There's a reason they aren't the first choice for curved sufaces:whistling


----------



## joee134

CENTERLINE MV said:


> Meh.... I'll stick with the templates.


A haters gotta hate!!! :cheesygri


----------



## wooddan

Warren said:


> When trying to drive a nail into a hanger in a tight spot, push the nail through a piece of paper or cardboard, hold the cardboard with your fingers and pound the nail in. Saved many a finger.


Or wedge the nail right in the nail pulling slot of a nail puller and if you have 
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Estwing-9-in-Pro-Claw-Nail-Puller-PC210G/202033610?N=c24o#.UY1vmpXD_IU and you have a real tight space the head of your hammer doesn't fit in then you can use the other end as a hammer... 
hope I explained right people :blink:


----------



## Carpenter eyes

pizalm said:


> I write on the base of my speed square, room for lots of measurements.


I do the same thing


----------



## txgencon

Not anything I learned from someone else, but I have learned not to buy dust masks (respirators) with rubber band type straps. Make sure the straps are the elastic type. The rubber ones seen to break after about the third or fourth time you try to put it on. The elastic style will last until the mask is unusably dirty.


----------



## chewy

Use the nozzle off of a caulking cartridge to run the rubber screw covering bead from extruded aluminum skirting/base board. Cut the nozzle so it fits inside the channel then start the rubber about 50mm proud of the channel and then move the nozel away from it, pushing the bead in as it moves along. You leave excess as the rubber shrinks.

You guys may not know what I mean, its an aluminum baseboard used for commercial fit outs, along with flatbar below the ceilings, there is a channel so you can cover your screw or rivet holes.


----------



## tenon0774

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> :blink::blink:


I think the new guy took your line! :blink:

...or is paying homage to you. :notworthy


My tricks from old timers:

A plumb bob attached to the cloth, or nylon end of a chalk line. It's compact, can be reeled in, and the weight of the chalk box, counteracts the weight of the bob: So no reason to keep a bob on a string.
(no chalk of course).

Using "catfish" fishing line for all my chalk boxes. It is a finer line than the "furry" cotton crap they stock cheaper boxes with.* (Tajima, excluded of course)

On your final pass of "level 4", with the halogen and a pencil, after you have sanded the room; mix your 20 or 45 with a puff of blue chalk. 
So you won't have to hunt and peck for your final patches.

*This I pulled out of an old FHB.


----------



## Rich D.

I taught myself this one.

If your hanging something on walls etc. And need to be an 1", 1.5, 2" etc. Away from an adjacent object, instead of measuring it all out just use the width of blue painters tape. 

For example i was hanging a mirror and i wanted it 2" away from the corner of the room. I just stuck some 2" painters tape on the wall and used that as a nice even 2" spacing from the corner.


----------



## skyhook

On blueprints, call outs, doors, windows, plywood, reams of paper, etc. 
*WIDTH IS ALWAYS THE FIRST DIMENSION. *​


----------



## Mavis Leonard

tenon0774 said:


> I think the new guy took your line! :blink:
> 
> ...or is paying homage to you. :notworthy
> 
> 
> My tricks from old timers:
> 
> A plumb bob attached to the cloth, or nylon end of a chalk line. It's compact, can be reeled in, and the weight of the chalk box, counteracts the weight of the bob: So no reason to keep a bob on a string.
> (no chalk of course).
> 
> Using "catfish" fishing line for all my chalk boxes. It is a finer line than the "furry" cotton crap they stock cheaper boxes with.* (Tajima, excluded of course)
> 
> On your final pass of "level 4", with the halogen and a pencil, after you have sanded the room; mix your 20 or 45 with a puff of blue chalk.
> So you won't have to hunt and peck for your final patches.
> 
> *This I pulled out of an old FHB.




i do tht:thumbsup: it does tak morthan apuff


----------



## tenon0774

Mavis Leonard said:


> i do tht:thumbsup: it does tak morthan apuff


Alritght then, a couple of puffs.



Better?
:thumbsup:


----------



## svronthmve

I'd say it depends on how big your puffs are!


----------



## fjn

Taught myself this one. When doing concrete form work,especially footing forms,you can use an air nailer,just shoot through a wood shim.When you go to strip form,bust the shim with claw hammer,nail head gets exposed so you can pull it out of form.


----------



## Rich D.

fjn said:


> Taught myself this one. When doing concrete form work,especially footing forms,you can use an air nailer,just shoot through a wood shim.When you go to strip form,bust the shim with claw hammer,nail head gets exposed so you can pull it out of form.


Or just use duplex's

Good trick when your in a bind though!!


----------



## Mavis Leonard

Rich D. said:


> Or just use duplex's
> 
> Good trick when your in a bind though!!


iu nevr seen an air nailer tht will shoot doubleheaded nails.


----------



## Rich D.

Mavis Leonard said:


> iu nevr seen an air nailer tht will shoot doubleheaded nails.


I agree..

I hand bang my forms though..


----------



## Sabagley

Not really a trick, but a useful bit of math


----------



## steex

Here, sabagley. 










I still can't read it though, so here is a link that explains how to calculate the radius of an arc.

http://www.mathopenref.com/arcradius.html


----------



## Warren

steex said:


> Here, sabagley.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't read it though, so here is a link that explains how to calculate the radius of an arc.
> 
> http://www.mathopenref.com/arcradius.html


Or, nowadays you can do this faster with your smartphone. I have a free radius calculator saved in my browser. There are aps that do it too, but I am too cheap to pony up the $1.99


----------



## ubcguy89

when swinging doors yourself use a small piece of 3/4'' pipe under the door. You can easily maneuver the door in place to get it screwed


----------



## Sabagley

Warren said:


> Or, nowadays you can do this faster with your smartphone. I have a free radius calculator saved in my browser. There are aps that do it too, but I am too cheap to pony up the $1.99


Maybe faster, but can you do it without them? 
I've spent a lot of money on construction masters only to go back to the basics of a Ti-30XA. Why? Cause I can... Lol


----------



## RCCIdaho

Sabagley said:


> ....only to go back to the basics of a Ti-30XA.


There is an app for that too.. :whistling

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.nickfines.RealCalc&hl=en


----------



## C2projects

If you turn the blade on your circular saw backwards it will cut through vinyl siding like butter. ( just remember to turn it back around when you need to cut some wood again.)


----------



## Mavis Leonard

C2projects said:


> If you turn the blade on your circular saw backwards it will cut through vinyl siding like butter. ( just remember to turn it back around when you need to cut some wood again.)


 ever tryit on alumiminunm


----------



## Mavis Leonard

not a trikc , but i was talkingto the 71 yaer old guy my uncl hired this spring. We are going to starta addition an remodle to a hous he helped build 50 yaers ago he said he jus got bakc to work hangin siding after lunch an a naighbor ran ovr from thehouse nex dooor an tol hm kennedy had beenkilled. damn peopl do remembr whrer they were. the mos amzingg part is this guy isstil working lik a champ 50 yeaers later. this fall we willl be strippin that same sidin off he was puttin on 50 yaers later.


----------



## Metro M & L

Mavis Leonard said:


> not a trikc , but i was talkingto the 71 yaer old guy my uncl hired this spring. We are going to starta addition an remodle to a hous he helped build 50 yaers ago he said he jus got bakc to work hangin siding after lunch an a naighbor ran ovr from thehouse nex dooor an tol hm kennedy had beenkilled. damn peopl do remembr whrer they were. the mos amzingg part is this guy isstil working lik a champ 50 yeaers later. this fall we willl be strippin that same sidin off he was puttin on 50 yaers later.


Callbacks are a *****.


----------



## kiteman

Mavis Leonard said:


> not a trikc , but i was talkingto the 71 yaer old guy my uncl hired this spring. We are going to starta addition an remodle to a hous he helped build 50 yaers ago he said he jus got bakc to work hangin siding after lunch an a naighbor ran ovr from thehouse nex dooor an tol hm kennedy had beenkilled. damn peopl do remembr whrer they were. the mos amzingg part is this guy isstil working lik a champ 50 yeaers later. this fall we willl be strippin that same sidin off he was puttin on 50 yaers later.


Cool story. I was in 8th grade math class.


----------



## Mavis Leonard

kiteman said:


> Cool story. I was in 8th grade math class.




i wish i wasbrn earlier i missed thefifties andthe 80s histry says the econmy was boomin an the cars wer so cool. my grandad sadi they were the bes times thing were patriotic and it seem tath maerca coulddo anythin.


----------



## Warren

Sabagley said:


> Maybe faster, but can you do it without them?
> I've spent a lot of money on construction masters only to go back to the basics of a Ti-30XA. Why? Cause I can... Lol


Of course. I have never used a construction master. I enjoy doing basic math. I can also figure the radius using two tape measures. The calculator is much faster though.


----------



## Ninjaframer

Sabagley said:


> Not really a trick, but a useful bit of math


I can't understand what you wrote but I think you mean the formula for figuring radius. From what I heard from a math teacher that was developed by an archioligist who discovered a piece of a roman chariot wheel and wanted to figure the size of of it. 1/2 width squared plus the hight squared divided by 2 times the hight is equal to the radius of the arc.


----------



## txgencon

Actually, it's "pi".

Otherwise the "Pie are round. Cornbread are square." punchline wouldn't work.


----------



## Bearded Wonder

C2projects said:


> If you turn the blade on your circular saw backwards it will cut through vinyl siding like butter. ( just remember to turn it back around when you need to cut some wood again.)


I used to work for a guy who used that method to cut r-panel. Loudest most obnoxious noise in the world and you better wear long sleeves, gloves, and goggles, cause metal shards fly everywhere at high speed. I don't recommend it.


----------



## Sabagley

Sheesh, tough crowd. I doubt everyone knows everything.


----------



## Sabagley

Laying out an oval is another trick I learned, was going share that. Then I found an app for it. Lol
Who needs old schoolers anymore


----------



## skyhook

Sabagley said:


> Laying out an oval is another trick I learned, was going share that. Then I found an app for it. Lol
> Who needs old schoolers anymore


I remember when I was young and knew everything.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Sabagley said:


> Laying out an oval is another trick I learned, was going share that. Then I found an app for it. Lol
> Who needs old schoolers anymore


Please share,,,,,,,I don't know what a app is:blink:


----------



## Sabagley

I was just kidding around a bit. I thought the thread was about things learned from others.


----------



## Ninjaframer

I'm always interested in others tricks. Post em


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Sabagley Ninjas a nice guy and a bit like me as I have no idea what this means







Because I never spent enough time in school:no: We're not a tough crowd but a simple crowd:thumbsup:


----------



## mbryan

kiteman said:


> Cool story. I was in 8th grade math class.


I wasn't even a wet spot in, well you know the rest...


----------



## FramingPro

Learned a cool way to layout an ellipse with just a ruler..
A bunch of cool stuff about geo in union school. :thumbsup:


----------



## Sabagley

I guess it's easy to take responses the wrong way. I need some emoticons to let people know when I am joking around. Which is most of the time, I really don't take myself that serious. 

Thumbs up!


----------



## tenon0774

Sabagley said:


> I need some emoticons to let people know when I am joking around.
> 
> Thumbs up!


The smiley's are free, here. :whistling


----------



## Sabagley

I only use the CT app.


----------



## Rich D.

To keep the bottom on the drywall square from moving around when making a cut, spray glue a piece of 
sand paper the width of the square at the bottom of the square. This keeps it from sliding around


----------



## skyhook

Rich D. said:


> To keep the bottom on the drywall square from moving around when making a cut, spray glue a piece of
> sand paper the width of the square at the bottom of the square. This keeps it from sliding around


Good tip! A spring clamp or two also works if your not in a hurry.


----------



## Waltwood

I don't know if this was covered because it is a long post, but I don't cut anything important by using a tape measure. In fact, I use a tape measure as little as possible. I try to teach this to carpenters in training. Some pick up on it and many don't. If I am cutting a board (which is a 1 inch thick piece of wood) that I can easily mark in place I do it. I do it with lumber on occasion also when it is not too long or wide. There are no mistakes when marking in place.

But my main idea is that I use scrap rippings from the shop as a pattern for marking the length of expensive items like a porch post or anything else. It is hard to misread a stick but easy to misread a tape measure. I also use these sticks for layout. It is good to try laying out on a scrap to check it out before doing it on the finished product. I do this on framing (not on a whole house,just in a difficult or confusing area) to cabinet work and it prevents a lot of mistakes.


----------



## tenon0774

Rich D. said:


> To keep the bottom on the drywall square from moving around when making a cut, spray glue a piece of
> sand paper the width of the square at the bottom of the square. This keeps it from sliding around


...or lean the tip of toe against it. :whistling


----------



## overanalyze

tenon0774 said:


> ...or lean the tip of toe against it. :whistling


Yep! But I like the sandpaper trick!


----------



## hdavis

FramingPro said:


> Learned a cool way to layout an ellipse with just a ruler..


Must be tough seeing the line:laughing:


----------



## hdavis

tenon0774 said:


> ...or lean the tip of toe against it. :whistling


Some cutters work off of a flat stack on the floor - makes it easier to get clean breaks.


----------



## Rich D.

tenon0774 said:


> ...or lean the tip of toe against it. :whistling


Yup! But that gets tricky on a A- frame


----------



## ubcguy89

tenon0774 said:


> ...or lean the tip of toe against it. :whistling


or learn to cut without a t square:whistling


----------



## Bearded Wonder

ubcguy89 said:


> or learn to cut without a t square:whistling


You must have a seriously above average ape index, if you can square cut 6' from a 12' sheet of drywall using the pinched tape and score with knife cutting method...


----------



## donerightwyo

ClaytonR said:


> You must have a seriously above average ape index, if you can square cut 6' from a 12' sheet of drywall using the pinched tape and score with knife cutting method...


Above average ape index:laughing::laughing:

That's some funny chit:clap:


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

ClaytonR said:


> You must have a seriously above average ape index, if you can square cut 6' from a 12' sheet of drywall using the pinched tape and score with knife cutting method...





donerightwyo said:


> Above average ape index:laughing::laughing:
> 
> That's some funny chit:clap:


He hangs the ceilings while standing on the floor:laughing:


----------



## skyhook

ubcguy89 said:


> or learn to cut without a t square:whistling


I like having a nice square cut. 
When I go to THD to pick up a single sheet of DW, I grab a "Tee" square from their merchandise display, score the board exactly in half wit my pocket knife,
lift and snap while still on the flat stack, load and go. Especially on 5/8" type X boards. 
Makes it easy to handle and toss on the cart without having to enlist one of the floor monkeys. :laughing:


----------



## Rich D.

I just slide it on the flat goods cart.. then slide it in my bed of the truck..


----------



## tenon0774

ClaytonR said:


> You must have a seriously above average ape index, if you can square cut 6' from a 12' sheet of drywall using the pinched tape and score with knife cutting method...





Dirtywhiteboy said:


> He hangs the ceilings while standing on the floor:laughing:












"9' ceilings from the ground!"

"Whose hiring?"

:clap:


----------



## Calidecks

tenon0774 said:


> "9' ceilings from the ground!"
> 
> "Whose hiring?"
> 
> :clap:


Wow tenon, I alway pictured you with black hair, a little shorter, without a beard.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Californiadecks said:


> Wow tenon, I alway pictured you with black hair, a little shorter, without a beard.


----------



## FramingPro

Burn a foot, instead of an inch... you will notice being a foot out much quicker then an inch :whistling


----------



## NINZAN STUDIO

FramingPro said:


> Burn a foot, instead of an inch... you will notice being a foot out much quicker then an inch :whistling


Or 10". Easier to add / subtract 10" in your head (at least for me)


----------



## tenon0774

Californiadecks said:


> Wow tenon, I alway pictured you with black hair, a little shorter, without a beard.




:glare: 

:shifty:



Well, played.

:thumbsup:


----------



## deter

first trick I ever learned from an oldtimer was back when I was still a teenager. I was beating the piss out of a ground rod with a post hole driver (clay soil). He brought over a jug of water, no more pounding


----------



## tedanderson

A real old schooler (in his late 70's) showed me this one:

If you have to use a hacksaw in a very tight place.. e.g. cutting the nails behind a base cabinet to remove it without destroying it, use a rag to hold the blade rather than attaching it to the handle. 

You'll be able to get your hacksaw exactly where you need it.


----------



## skyhook

For those files in your toolbox that don't have handles, a 3" piece of fuel line hose makes a good, cheap handle. For smaller files, a wire nut works and screws on tight.


----------



## Bearded Wonder

tedanderson said:


> A real old schooler (in his late 70's) showed me this one:
> 
> If you have to use a hacksaw in a very tight place.. e.g. cutting the nails behind a base cabinet to remove it without destroying it, use a rag to hold the blade rather than attaching it to the handle.
> 
> You'll be able to get your hacksaw exactly where you need it.


I've also stuck a hack saw blade in a sawzall. Clipped right in, and it's so flexible it can bend around stuff into tight spots.


----------



## RCCIdaho

Learned a cool trick watching the guy I just started working with last week. 

When going to stand a wall I've always sunk in my hammer claws in the top plate, picked it up a little, and then kicked a piece of scrap under. But now I've seen that he just leans a scrap 2x4 or 2x6 against the top plate at a 45º or so and then picks up the wall a little and voila gravity does the rest and I don't have to do this retarded shuffle to try and get a block under the top plate.


----------



## jlsconstruction

RCCIdaho said:


> Learned a cool trick watching the guy I just started working with last week.
> 
> When going to stand a wall I've always sunk in my hammer claws in the top plate, picked it up a little, and then kicked a piece of scrap under. But now I've seen that he just leans a scrap 2x4 or 2x6 against the top plate at a 45º or so and then picks up the wall a little and voila gravity does the rest and I don't have to do this retarded shuffle to try and get a block under the top plate.


What?


----------



## Sabagley

jlsconstruction said:


> What?


The block falls in place when they lift the wall? I think that's what he's saying.


----------



## jlsconstruction

Sabagley said:


> The block falls in place when they lift the wall? I think that's what he's saying.


Ohhhh I got it now


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

jlsconstruction said:


> What?





jlsconstruction said:


> Ohhhh I got it now


SOP:blink:


----------



## Kent Whitten

I'm the old schooler here giving advice. 

Here it is. 

When siding, and there are noticeable, non picked up fresh dog poop on the lawn, make sure you check your feet BEFORE going up the ladder. 

Because when you come DOWN from said ladder, you get a handful of fresh, sticky dog poop on your hands. 

Don't ask me how I know.


----------



## Jajgthompson

Use a saws all blade to lay out a circle.Set a nail in the hole and put your pencil point between the teeth to get the appropriate radius,and draw your circle.


----------



## steex

I was taught never to put my hands on the rungs of a ladder. If you slide your hands along the uprights there is never a moment when you let go. And you don't put your hands in dog poop.


----------



## Inner10

Jajgthompson said:


> Use a saws all blade to lay out a circle.Set a nail in the hole and put your pencil point between the teeth to get the appropriate radius,and draw your circle.


I've used that one many many times.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Kent Whitten said:


> fresh dog poop on the lawn, make sure you check your feet BEFORE going up the ladder.
> Don't ask me how I know.


:laughing::clap::laughing::laughing: Laughing my a$$ off:thumbsup:
Because we've all been there:no:
And when it's on your hand what's the first thing you do:blink: Sniff it to see what it is


----------



## A&E Exteriors

hdavis said:


> Some cutters work off of a flat stack on the floor - makes it easier to get clean breaks.


That's where the knee replaces the toe


----------



## topquality

Best tool to have is the rocketanchor.com


----------



## hdavis

Kent Whitten said:


> I'm the old schooler here giving advice.
> 
> Here it is.
> 
> When siding, and there are noticeable, non picked up fresh dog poop on the lawn, make sure you check your feet BEFORE going up the ladder.
> 
> Because when you come DOWN from said ladder, you get a handful of fresh, sticky dog poop on your hands.
> 
> Don't ask me how I know.


Rungs are for your feet, sides are for your hands:whistling


----------



## Foxit

A younger Forman asked me what do you do if you don't an answer to a subs question. I told him to ask them " what would you do if I weren't here?" Most subs know what to do and are just looking for approval and will give an answer. Make it look like you want the sub to think for themselves and tell them there answer is fine.


----------



## BilliamB

ClaytonR said:


> I've also stuck a hack saw blade in a sawzall. Clipped right in, and it's so flexible it can bend around stuff into tight spots.


That is very COOL!!!


----------



## ubcguy89

Jajgthompson said:


> Use a saws all blade to lay out a circle.Set a nail in the hole and put your pencil point between the teeth to get the appropriate radius,and draw your circle.


or a drywall circle cutter


----------



## ubcguy89

ClaytonR said:


> You must have a seriously above average ape index, if you can square cut 6' from a 12' sheet of drywall using the pinched tape and score with knife cutting method...


I can cut about 52'' square without a t square, I rarely lay sheets down so I usually do not cut more than a foot off sheets.


----------



## ubcguy89

skyhook said:


> I like having a nice square cut.
> When I go to THD to pick up a single sheet of DW, I grab a "Tee" square from their merchandise display, score the board exactly in half wit my pocket knife,
> lift and snap while still on the flat stack, load and go. Especially on 5/8" type X boards.
> Makes it easy to handle and toss on the cart without having to enlist one of the floor monkeys. :laughing:


Thats is about all i hang 5/8 type x usually 9' or 10' sheets. I hang anything up to 12' alone. I would rather hang 5/8 over 1/2 because I feel 5/8 is easier to work with as far a cutting goes. IMO you get cleaner breaks.


----------



## Carpenter eyes

ubcguy89 said:


> Thats is about all i hang 5/8 type x usually 9' or 10' sheets. I hang anything up to 12' alone. I would rather hang 5/8 over 1/2 because I feel 5/8 is easier to work with as far a cutting goes. IMO you get cleaner breaks.


I wish i could hang more 5/8 rock. That ultra light stuff is trash. Plus i do alot of remodels and the 5/8s help hide the imperfections better IMO


----------



## ubcguy89

Carpenter eyes said:


> I wish i could hang more 5/8 rock. That ultra light stuff is trash. Plus i do alot of remodels and the 5/8s help hide the imperfections better IMO


I cant stand ultralight, nice to move a mother to snap. I hang commercial so 5/8 is pretty much standard. Just bid your jobs for 5/8 board and explain to the customer they are getting a better product


----------



## Carpenter eyes

ubcguy89 said:


> I cant stand ultralight, nice to move a mother to snap. I hang commercial so 5/8 is pretty much standard. Just bid your jobs for 5/8 board and explain to the customer they are getting a better product


I am only an employee sadly. Still tryin to talk team mamagment (as i like to call them) to there sences.


----------



## donerightwyo

This is a great thread that has been sleeping to long.


I couldn't think of any thing to add though:sad:

Maybe some of the new guys can.


----------



## Leo G

When you are making a cabinet side and you need to put a rabbet on the backside of the side. Instead of setting the fence at 3/8" (1/8"+3/8"=1/2" rabbet) you set the fence at the width of your fixed shelf. In my cabinets that would be 22 3/4" for lowers and 12 3/4" for uppers and then run the board (your blade height would be 3/8" or so). This assures that your fixed shelves and your sides will have the exact same width.


----------



## donerightwyo

When nailing on top plates, nail at the studs. The sparky's and plumbers will thank you. This is beginner type stuff, but a lesson I taught just today to a newb.


----------



## jlsconstruction

donerightwyo said:


> When nailing on top plates, nail at the studs. The sparky's and plumbers will thank you. This is beginner type stuff, but a lesson I taught just today to a newb.


I preach that all the time


----------



## Golden view

donerightwyo said:


> When nailing on top plates, nail at the studs. The sparky's and plumbers will thank you. This is beginner type stuff, but a lesson I taught just today to a newb.


Along the same lines, when stiching studs, don't just go crazy wth nails. Be consistent.


----------



## jlsconstruction

When cutting a 4x4 or 6x6 with a worm saw just do it in one cut by going up and over the corners. The cut is a lot better


----------



## Gregory D

It is hard to believe what a long peice of lumber can move when used as ram type object.
Much more effective than a sledge many times.


----------



## Golden view

Gregory D said:


> It is hard to believe what a long peice of lumber can move when used as ram type object.
> Much more effective than a sledge many times.


New timer tip. When doing this avoid enormous horrible splinters.


----------



## hdavis

Gregory D said:


> It is hard to believe what a long peice of lumber can move when used as ram type object.
> Much more effective than a sledge many times.


Also easier to pop a boarded attic floor off from the floor below with a 4X4 than sledging up or pulling nails from above.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Gregory D said:


> It is hard to believe what a long peice of lumber can move when used as ram type object.
> Much more effective than a sledge many times.


We call it the big biffer:thumbsup:


----------



## Calidecks

Always be kind to the subs it's part of the framers job.


----------



## chewy

donerightwyo said:


> When nailing on top plates, nail at the studs. The sparky's and plumbers will thank you. This is beginner type stuff, but a lesson I taught just today to a newb.


This!!!!


----------



## RobertCDF

donerightwyo said:


> When nailing on top plates, nail at the studs. The sparky's and plumbers will thank you. This is beginner type stuff, but a lesson I taught just today to a newb.


Unless the plumber is an ass, then find where a vent stack needs to go and put a 1/8" thick piece of steel between the plates or between the sub floor and bottom plate. 

Disclaimer: I've never done this but I know a framer that has, the plumber was a lot nicer after that.


----------



## 413Sean

RobertCDF said:


> Unless the plumber is an ass, then find where a vent stack needs to go and put a 1/8" thick piece of steel between the plates or between the sub floor and bottom plate.
> 
> Disclaimer: I've never done this but I know a framer that has, the plumber was a lot nicer after that.


Hahahahaha I like that one! Every plumber I have EVER worked with or listened to on site is always bitching about anything...I may use this one some day


----------



## Brian Peters

I helped my uncle frame a house when I was 17 or 18 , he taught me when nailing walls together always hold the last stud in an ⅛" from the end of the plate so as not to interfere with the plates coming tight together. I'm sure he taught me more but for some reason that tidbit stayed with me.


----------



## Calidecks

We had a plumber run all his pipes up through the second floor before it was even decked. This was after we told him you can't do that until after were are framed. We just cut his pipes, he was passed but he seem to listen to us after that.


----------



## asgoodasdead

I've learned every single thing I know from old school guys.


----------



## jlsconstruction

asgoodasdead said:


> I've learned every single thing I know from Jesus


Fixed it for you


----------



## asgoodasdead

but I don't even believe in jebus


----------



## Stevarino

Willie T said:


> Yes, that one is timeless, and worth its weight in gold.


Just don't use whole grain or the hard grains or oats will clog your faucet guts.


----------



## blacktop

If you can't work and talk at the same time ...Shut up!


----------



## C&RConstruction

If you have stubborn scuffs on something, use a little caulk on a rag and rub it on the scuff. Takes it off every time.


----------



## hdavis

This goes with Leo's post a little while back - what the heck datum and reference faces are, and why they're important.


----------



## Leo G

Is that a question to me?


----------



## hdavis

Leo G said:


> Is that a question to me?


No- you're using the front edge as a reference, which made me think of this. It would have saved my a lot of time when I started designing and building custom furniture - my first efforts for myself were an exercise in stupidity.


----------



## Leo G

Yes, a nice single reference point. I do the same thing when I measure out for a kitchen. I pick a corner and that's the reference. I try to pull everything from that if I can. I hate it when you add up the measurements and they don't come out correct.


----------



## Gregory D

Doing trim-base 
go in each room measure each wall label with #and either L-S) L-L) L-Sq)
Go out cut whole house label base or crown with #1-whatever#
Bring in material lay in floor matching numbers together.
I never thought to do it that way before. Saves a lot of legwork!!


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

asgoodasdead said:


> I've learned every single thing I know from old school Jesus.





jlsconstruction said:


> Fixed it for you


I sure he was old school:thumbsup:


----------



## Golden view

Gregory D said:


> Doing trim-base
> go in each room measure each wall label with #and either L-S) L-L) L-Sq)
> Go out cut whole house label base or crown with #1-whatever#
> Bring in material lay in floor matching numbers together.
> I never thought to do it that way before. Saves a lot of legwork!!


This is what my cut list for coped trim in a room with a closet looks like


----------



## Bjackson3

Golden view said:


> This is what my cut list for coped trim in a room with a closet looks like


Mines very similar except I write my measurements in the center column and then write a symbol for what type of cut it if to the left or right. 

i.e. C 23 7/16

Is a cope left...if that makes sense.


----------



## Golden view

Bjackson3 said:


> Mines very similar except I write my measurements in the center column and then write a symbol for what type of cut it if to the left or right.
> 
> i.e. C 23 7/16
> 
> Is a cope left...if that makes sense.


Makes sense, it's all just code for whoever is doing the work. I quit using fractions and now I just do everything in 16ths as a superscript. Even 1/2 is just written as 8.

For most rooms I just start to the left of the door I walk into, and then all copes are always on the left. So that's mitered as an inside corner on the left. And almost all rights are square to butt to the wall.


----------



## Reg

This is from a cabinetry making back ground. Jobs get hurt once in awhile. I worked in a real quick moving cabinet shop. German owner. Had us working like clockwork. But we are human. Every one of us, including the owner would ding a job now and then. Sometimes you're walking too fast through the shop with a clamp in hand, sometimes someone backs in to you. Sometimes it's in the install. You fix the big ones. You don't always fix the small ones. I've seen it with every cabinet maker and shop. It's like a minute percentage that get's the five second treatment.

Anyway, a great trick is rub a little Feed & Wax on your damaged area. It literally makes the ouch, go away. 
Love that ****.


----------



## Gary H

Always check the porta potty set for grease before you sit on it.


----------



## schaefercs

While were on the topic of coping, always cope the same side of the moulding. If you're right handed, measure counter clockwise and cut the right side. Vise versa if you're lefty. Cutting copes with your non dominant hand sucks!


----------



## jlsconstruction

schaefercs said:


> While were on the topic of coping, always cope the same side of the moulding. If you're right handed, measure counter clockwise and cut the right side. Vise versa if you're lefty. Cutting copes with your non dominant hand sucks!


If I need to cut the left side I just to it from the bottom to the top of the molding


----------



## Willy1959

So many pages of tips, couldnt read them all, Forgive me if some one else posted this.

If you are doing remodeling where the home owner is his own painter, and you want to save some back and forth time letting him prefinish before install. Cut a roll of wax paper in half put the half sheets up around the windows and doors and then trim over the top. Tell him when he is done finishing he can untape and bend back and paint. and after both staining and painting is completed just cut off with a razor knife. gives a very nice crisp cut between products.

I use this method a lot when retrofitting new prime windows to an old house.


----------



## ubcguy89

when you are running large commercial projects as the GC remember to work hand in hand with your subs. It will make your job and theirs easier.


----------



## JesseCocozza

Reg said:


> This is from a cabinetry making back ground. Jobs get hurt once in awhile. I worked in a real quick moving cabinet shop. German owner. Had us working like clockwork. But we are human. Every one of us, including the owner would ding a job now and then. Sometimes you're walking too fast through the shop with a clamp in hand, sometimes someone backs in to you. Sometimes it's in the install. You fix the big ones. You don't always fix the small ones. I've seen it with every cabinet maker and shop. It's like a minute percentage that get's the five second treatment. Anyway, a great trick is,( ?) . Can I endorse here?) Its beeswax, carnauba wax and orange oil. It literally makes the ouch, go away. Love that ****. I'm probably not allowed to cuss here right?:innocent: Okay, off to read the bylaws.


We dinged the the edge where the jamb extension and picture framed casing meet one time. We got a damp towel and a clothes iron and steamed like 80% of it out.


----------



## jlsconstruction

I just slit the board with my knife. The sting slips on the slit and you're good to go


----------



## asgoodasdead

what are those things? pic is kinda blurry


----------



## Easy Gibson

I'll just assume they're the things you use to hold corn on the cob.

Keeps the butter off your hands. An old schooler taught me that.


----------



## svronthmve

...


----------



## topquality

Or check out rocketanchor.com best tool ever made. I call it my $8 hr man.


----------



## KAP

asgoodasdead said:


> what are those things? pic is kinda blurry


Right-click on pic and choose "view image".... then hold CTRL and press the "+" or "-" key to zoom in and out...


----------



## Tom M

Hasnt anyone ever used the tab of a soda can for your chaulk line?


----------



## Leo G

Damn...How old are you?? :cheesygri


----------



## Reg

DeCloud said:


> I am a trim finish carpenter ome pretty useful trick I learned was if a raw piece of finish grade piece of material has an imperfection such as a hammer mark or other indention, is to rub your saliva on it. Within about a half hour the wood will swell and can be lightly sanded afterward leaving no scarring.


This only works if the wood is not damaged (fibers torn). It only works if the wood is dented. But I agree. A dab of spit or water brings it right up. We use a heated iron to bring up the dent if it's really deep. You need a piece of cloth in between so not to scorch the wood.


----------



## TimelessQuality

Ninth grade shop class.. We were all making clocks.. One day the teacher went down the line with a ball peen and dented everyone's clock face.

Got some pretty pissed until he showed us how to 'pull' the dents

We used wet paper towels and a soldering iron


----------



## KAP

TimelessQuality said:


> Ninth grade shop class.. We were all making clocks.. One day the teacher went down the line with a ball peen and dented everyone's clock face.
> 
> Got some pretty pissed until he showed us how to 'pull' the dents
> 
> We used wet paper towels and a soldering iron


Lot better than spit... :whistling


----------



## Reg

boman47k said:


> Hahaha, I feel a little ignorant now. I do that if I want a more accurate measurement. I was thinking of some reason why someone would char the end of a board or something. :shutup:


Hahahaha:clap::laughing:


----------



## Reg

JesseCocozza said:


> We dinged the the edge where the jamb extension and picture framed casing meet one time. We got a damp towel and a clothes iron and steamed like 80% of it out.


Yeah, that works great on unfinished wood. Amazing actually. The Feed N Wax I mentioned is once a piece of furniture has been finished with varnish and it's too late to do much about it.


----------



## asgoodasdead

topquality said:


> Or check out rocketanchor.com best tool ever made. I call it my $8 hr man.


looks like it does the same job as a nail. which is free and always in my pouch.


----------



## 91782

TimelessQuality said:


> Ninth grade shop class.. We were all making clocks.. One day the teacher went down the line with a ball peen and dented everyone's clock face.
> 
> Got some pretty pissed until he showed us how to 'pull' the dents
> 
> We used wet paper towels and a soldering iron


Yeah, well I still woulda clocked that teach...


----------



## Calidecks

asgoodasdead said:


> looks like it does the same job as a nail. which is free and always in my pouch.


We had a young kid named Eric that worked for us. He was going to help me layout a building, but we needed him to unload the truck, so I used a nail to hold my snap line. I asked him how it felt to be replaced by a nail? I actually told him the name of my nail is "little E" fortunately he had a good attitude and thought it was funny.


----------



## Reg

Sometimes ideas are hard to translate through an explanation but I can't find a youtube example or illustration for this. 

When doing bat and board and you are ready to nail off everything, rather than using a story pole, have a nail sticking out at the end of each level you are about to nail off. Tie one long string to the bottom and run it across, where the nail line will go. Continue to wrap it up to the next level, and across, then up another level until the whole has string across where nails will eventually go. Then grab your gun and nail right at the level where the string is. It seems like it would take a long time but it goes way faster than picking up the story pole each and every time you move over to nail and makes for one good looking siding job.


----------



## asgoodasdead

it's a rare luxury someone ever holds my chalkline for anything. usually just set a nail or use a piece of 5quarter or more often than not just use my tape to mark a line since it's way faster(though not as nice) as a chalkline when I'm cutting plywood.


----------



## TimelessQuality

SmallTownGuy said:


> Yeah, well I still woulda clocked that teach...


Yeah, but he was also the football coach


----------



## Reg

Gough said:


> We always use a really small drill bit and just twist it between thumb and forefinger of the other hand to drain the blood under a smashed finger.
> 
> True story: a carpenter overheard us talking about this and smashed his finger a few days later. He hadn't been paying quite enough attention to our discussion and missed a few important details, like the part about twisting the bit between thumb and forefinger. His wife saw him head into the bathroom with a cordless drill, then heard a loud scream a minute later. He had chucked the bit into his cordless and used that to drill through his fingernail. Needless to say, he overshot the mark and drilled into the nailbed. Apparently. that is fairly painful.


OMG! :no::no::no: It pays to listen.


----------



## Brian Peters

I drilled my finger nail with a cordless drill...VERY CAREFULLY!


----------



## jlsconstruction

I just heat up a a trim nail and it goes in like a hot knife in butter


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker

Golden view said:


> This is what my cut list for coped trim in a room with a closet looks like


Can someone explain the "l" and "s" thing?


----------



## TheGrizz

"l" = long. "s" = short. When I'm doing this I list it for what side of my piece the l & s need to be on, and I draw a square if it's square ended, and a c for cope. I'm also the only left handed guy out of six guys at work, so I just do things my own way, cuz I never have a cut man, an I'm never the cut man.


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker

TheGrizz said:


> "l" = long. "s" = short. When I'm doing this I list it for what side of my piece the l & s need to be on, and I draw a square if it's square ended, and a c for cope. I'm also the only left handed guy out of six guys at work, so I just do things my own way, cuz I never have a cut man, an I'm never the cut man.


So you would mark long for an inside corner and short for outside? I've always just drawn it with lines but letters seems faster.


----------



## asgoodasdead

yeah long and short is pretty standard for miter cuts whether it's trim or gable studs or valley rafters or whatever


----------



## TheGrizz

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So you would mark long for an inside corner and short for outside? I've always just drawn it with lines but letters seems faster.


Exactly. Although, sometimes, I'll use long for other than inside corners. Such as door and window trims. I do the tops of doors and windows first, then measure the square to long.


----------



## Leo G

I just use L, R and C. I cope both left and right depending on what the room requires.


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker

asgoodasdead said:


> yeah long and short is pretty standard for miter cuts whether it's trim or gable studs or valley rafters or whatever


Yeah, we use it all the time. But the cut list photo just was a weird sequence so I was just making sure. Thanks for the help guys


----------



## Tom M

I do LC, RC... Fanilow how old are you Leo?


----------



## Leo G

Who me? 52, why for thou ask thee?


----------



## Tom M

You asked me, no?


----------



## Leo G

I'm so confused :blink:


----------



## knucklehead

I put a steeple on a church recently, and there in nowhere to put a level on it. So I used my pocket watch with a chain for a plumb bob.


----------



## GO Remodeling

knucklehead said:


> I put a steeple on a church recently, and there in nowhere to put a level on it. So I used my pocket watch with a chain for a plumb bob.


How exactly did this work?


----------



## svronthmve

olzo55 said:


> How exactly did this work?


I'm guessing like clock-work!


----------



## FramingPro

olzo55 said:


> How exactly did this work?


I imagine you would find the CL at the base, hang the plumb bob from the peak and adjust as necessary :whistling


----------



## asgoodasdead

I'm sure it worked great, but why not just use your chalkline?


----------



## JR Shepstone

asgoodasdead said:


> I'm sure it worked great, but why not just use your chalkline?


Because a pocket watch is classy.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

asgoodasdead said:


> I'm sure it worked great, but why not just use your chalkline?


Didn't have the time?


----------



## blacktop

Don't put the horse In front of the wagon!


----------



## knucklehead

olzo55 said:


> How exactly did this work?


You just stand back from the building a little bit and hold the watch out in front of you and let it plumb itself and line it up with the object in question. 
Nothin to it.


----------



## Boda

It takes a lot longer to explain in type than showing someone. But I thought it was worth sharing. How to make a perfect Arched opening.

*What you need:*

1) The starting height of your Arch. *Example: 6'-8"*

2) The remainder above your starting height. Measure up from the floor and mark your starting height (6'-8" in this example) on the cripple of the opening. Measure the remaining length from that mark up to the ceiling or header. *Example: 14-1/2"*

3) The Apex (or top) of your Arch. *Example: 1-1/2" down from the ceiling or header.* I like to come down a minimum of 1-1/2" so you can put a 2 by up there for a backer. This also prevents you from making your plywood go to Zero, resulting in a very fine point of plywood that just breaks.

4) The length of the opening. *Example: 8' wide.*

5) Half the distance of the opening. *Example: 4'.*


*Process:
*
Rip 2 pieces of 1/2" plywood 8' x 15" (you want a little extra meat). Find a large space of open floor and tack the rips down in the middle of the space. Once you get the hang of this you will better understand the space requirements. The longer your opening the more space you need. Best to practice with a smaller arch first.

Measure 4' in from one side along the top, then come down 1-1/2" (your Apex) and set an 8 penny nail. Then come down each side from the top 14-1/2" and set 8 penny nails.

Hook your tape on the 8 penny nails while holding a pencil on half the distance of your opening length (4' in this example), Arc your tape off all three nails so you have 4 points of intersection. 2 above the plywood and 2 below.

Set 8 penny nails in the 2 intersecting point above. Then hook your snap line onto the nail and run it through the point below on the same side, then snap. Do this once for each side.

Where the 2 snap lines intersect set an 8 penny nail. Hook your tape on it and verify you have the same number to all 3 points on your plywood (where the nails are in the ply). If they all match you have done it correctly and can put your pencil on that number and Arch onto the ply wood.

This will result in a perfect arch.

Keep both layers of plywood tacked together when you cut to ensure they are exactly the same.

Cut blocks to fit in between the 2 plywood arches, generally I use 2x4 or 2x6, any wider and it won't follow the curve of the arch.

There you have it.


----------



## heavy_d

Tom M said:


> Hasnt anyone ever used the tab of a soda can for your chaulk line?


Lost my tab a couple weeks ago and my boss grabbed me a soda can tab. Used it for about two days until it drove me crazy.


----------



## essrmo

txgencon said:


> This isn't so much a tip as it is a hard lesson learned from a framer who did some work for me many years ago.
> 
> If you have a lock (as shown in the pic below) on your trailer or box van, don't open it and then leave it hanging on the lock hasp without first spinning the numbers. Someone can come by and learn the code and then come back later and open the lock easily.


Or lock it on the loop to prevent someone from locking you inside the trailer (as a joke).


----------



## asgoodasdead

heavy_d said:


> Lost my tab a couple weeks ago and my boss grabbed me a soda can tab. Used it for about two days until it drove me crazy.


here's a trick I was taught by an old schooler; when you break your chalk line, cut the tab off and throw it in your tool box and save it in case you lose the one on your next chalkline. I have 2-3 extras in my truck from doing this. it's not like it's a hassle to save them or they take up a lot of space.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

tyb525 said:


> If there is more chalk on one side of the box, it could throw It off level.


:laughing::clap: I'm sorry that's just funny right there! :thumbup:


----------



## Burns-Built

Or just buy a tajima and never buy another chalk line again.


----------



## Boda

Burns-Built said:


> Or just buy a tajima and never buy another chalk line again.


So do you have to buy special chalk for the Tajima? How much does it cost vs. normal chalk?

Does it work after a day out in the rain/wet snow?

Around here its around $30 for the Tajima, for that price I need to know its worth it first.


----------



## Warren

Burns-Built said:


> Or just buy a tajima and never buy another chalk line again.


I have owned two Tajimas. I think one still exists in an old tool box somewhere. I probably buy a dozen chalk boxes a year. The Tajimas are really nice, just not $30 nice, for me anyways.


----------



## asgoodasdead

I've seen these tajimas on amazon for $15 and thought that was expensive. but was curious cause they always pop up in my recommended products. 

and yeah, you say they'll last forever. even after they get wet 10-30 times? that's really the only thing that kills mine. when the line breaks I just open them up and respool it.


----------



## asgoodasdead

I usually buy the irwins at home depot for $8 that come with a bottle of chalk and a sharpie marker. just bought one last week there on clearance for $4.


----------



## Warren

asgoodasdead said:


> I usually buy the irwins at home depot for $8 that come with a bottle of chalk and a sharpie marker. just bought one last week there on clearance for $4.


I saw those too. Mine had the blue/grey irwins with no sharpie for two bucks. I bought all five. Think I should be good til summer now!:clap:


----------



## asgoodasdead

damn that's a deal. in hindsight, I should have bought 2. I used to buy the blue/metal ones but lately been buying the blue/yellow all plastic ones cause they're lighter and less bulky in my bags and seem to have the same quality line inside.


----------



## Burns-Built

Well, I try to keep my lines dry but they have been wet a dozen times. You obviously have to let them dry.

Warren, I don't frame full time so I imagine mine aren't used as hard. 

I know I'll never buy anything else, I have 3 chalk rite 2 and 1 ultra thin line.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Boda said:


> So do you have to buy special chalk for the Tajima? How much does it cost vs. normal chalk?


 Tajima has their own brand of chalk and it works best because it a finer chalk. 


Boda said:


> Does it work after a day out in the rain/wet snow?


 Heck it works under water:laughing:


Boda said:


> Around here its around $30 for the Tajima, for that price I need to know its worth it first.


I pick them up on sale for 21 dollars. on sale.


----------



## Boda

asgoodasdead said:


> I usually buy the irwins at home depot for $8 that come with a bottle of chalk and a sharpie marker. just bought one last week there on clearance for $4.


I was at HD yesterday and saw they only had DeWalt chalk lines out in the usual spot.

Wonder if the irwins are being phased out and thats why they are on clearance.


----------



## asgoodasdead

probably. irwins contract probably ran out and Dewalt got the new contract. those Dewalt chalkline's arms break off, though.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

The chalk box is my most thrown tool on the jobsite
The Tajima is worth it to me, haven't thrown it yet:blink:


----------



## asgoodasdead

after my current irwin breaks and then my $4 future irwin breaks, maybe i'll grab a tajima off amazon. but that'll be in like a year or more.


----------



## Jaws

Boda said:


> So do you have to buy special chalk for the Tajima? How much does it cost vs. normal chalk?
> 
> Does it work after a day out in the rain/wet snow?
> 
> Around here its around $30 for the Tajima, for that price I need to know its worth it first.


I use Irwin chalk.

Mines 3 or 4 years old.


----------



## Jaws

I don't buy my crew Tajimas. LOL

Irwin, baby.


----------



## FramingPro

My tajima took a 18' stumble onto concrete... busted a piece...trying to jerry rig a fix for it


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

asgoodasdead said:


> after my current irwin breaks and then my $4 future irwin breaks, maybe i'll grab a tajima off amazon. but that'll be in like a year or more.


 I keep at least 3 boxes with me for different things. I have a trim box with very thin line and orange chalk for cabs or other things that the chalk needs to be wiped away.



Jaws said:


> I don't buy my crew Tajimas. LOL
> Irwin, baby.


You buy your crew chalk boxes:blink::blink:


----------



## Jaws

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> I keep at least 3 boxes with me for different things. I have a trim box with very thin line and orange chalk for cabs or other things that the chalk needs to be wiped away.
> 
> You buy your crew chalk boxes:blink::blink:


End of the year, I buy a bunch of drill bits, batteries, knifes if there is a good deal, clamps if we need some and there is a deal, chalk boxes sometimes, not really on the top of the old list. :laughing: Hats, hoodies.


----------



## Warren

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> I keep at least 3 boxes with me for different things. I have a trim box with very thin line and orange chalk for cabs or other things that the chalk needs to be wiped away.
> 
> I do the same. Usually a dry line, a red, and a blue. Occasionally, after bad weather, I may end up with a purple box, and one less blue one.:thumbsup:


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

One box and I'm up doo doo creek without a paddle if it breaks, and it will.


----------



## blacktop

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> One box and I'm up doo doo creek without a paddle if it breaks, and it will.


When that little knot in the line catches and snaps!!!


----------



## Tinstaafl

Boda said:


> I was at HD yesterday and saw they only had DeWalt chalk lines out in the usual spot.


Couldn't find an Irwin at either Lowe's or HD the last couple of days; only massive hunks o' junk. Wound up grabbing one of those because I can't be without, but come on, people. I shouldn't need something the size of half a brick just to snap a 20' line.


----------



## KAP

Brian Peters said:


> I drilled my finger nail with a cordless drill...VERY CAREFULLY!


You know they have nail clippers for that right?... :whistling :laughing:


----------



## Brian Peters

KAP said:


> You know they have nail clippers for that right?... :whistling :laughing:


A nail clipper for drilling a hole in a fingernail to relieve pressure? Haven't seen that...


----------



## Inner10

Brian Peters said:


> A nail clipper for drilling a hole in a fingernail to relieve pressure? Haven't seen that...


Me neither, last time I spun a bit between my fingers.


----------



## Brian Peters

Inner10 said:


> Me neither, last time I spun a bit between my fingers.


Smart man!


----------



## paradisemike

My dad taught me to mortise the gain!


----------



## paradisemike

Tuck your shirt in when you use the table saw!


----------



## paradisemike

It was either how to use the framing square, or how to hold a chisel.


----------



## Kiwidan

Mark any pipes wires on the face of sheet rock, so that you won't screw anything and cause problems down the track


----------



## greg24k

Never try to jump higher then your balls, you will fall on your ass :thumbsup: put this in layman's term, don't do anything you cannot handle, or you will get over your head.


----------



## procrpntr

If your are replacing a door slab, often must cut it to fit. In an old building you sometimes must cut it on more than one side. An easy way to figure out how to cut is to level a line across door, at the top of the center hinge ( any relevant point will work) and plumb a line down center. Now you have an easy way to measure your corners and hardware monetise. This is specific to situations where it would not be feasible to replace James. Like in a cmu wall. Or even in old vickies, where your neighbors perfect door looks out because the building is forked...I use similar control line measures, for frp in old restaurant kitchens.

On new con, I shim up my Windows to center them in hole,and hold my interior doors up to allow for flooring. 

I cut both sides of door casing at Same time by stacking both pieces facing each other, and using fence on chop saw to determine square. (Assuming your casing stock has been made or ordered to size (typically 7 foot.)).

The tannic acids in cedar and redwood will cause tyvek and similar products to fail. Turning them into a solid membrane, this will cause rot, in a few years. Best to prime back of trim or use spacer. 

On rough framing, nail trimmer(or Jack) at door way with one nail midway then after standing and setting you can flip it out of way and cut it easily with skil saw. 

I have been fortunate to have worked with a guy who started his career with Swedish handsaws, and a miter box, but hasn't had a problem adapting to nailguns, and compound miter slider saws...


----------



## tyb525

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> :laughing::clap: I'm sorry that's just funny right there! :thumbup:


There's a reason real plumb bobs are machined round and balanced, if there is more weight on one side it will throw it out of plumb.


----------



## kiteman

> On rough framing, nail trimmer(or Jack) at door way with one nail midway then after standing and setting you can flip it out of way and cut it easily with skil saw.


Or just leave them out until you pull braces and cut the plates. Then cut them both out of 1-14' lineal.


----------



## KAP

Brian Peters said:


> A nail clipper for drilling a hole in a fingernail to relieve pressure? Haven't seen that...


I think you missed the :laughing:


----------



## mastersplinter

Is it really that hard to cut bottom plates flush with jacks with a recip saw?


----------



## asgoodasdead

we cut our plates when we lay them down. then again, we don't frame california-style


----------



## 413Sean

kiteman said:


> Or just leave them out until you pull braces and cut the plates. Then cut them both out of 1-14' lineal.


That's how I do it on interior walls with door openings, ya just run the saw against the king stud and that leaves an inch and half on both sides of the plate for your jacks


----------



## procrpntr

kiteman said:


> Or just leave them out until you pull braces and cut the plates. Then cut them both out of 1-14' lineal.


That works until your new hire cuts the plates at the king, and doesn't install trimmer, 

But use what works for you. Best advice I have from old carpenter, it doesn't matter how you do it ,as long you do it efficiently, and well.


----------



## kiteman

When cutting jack rafters for a hip roof, and using a wormdrive saw, I always cut the left side of the hip first, with birdsmouths and tails on the right and bevel cuts on the left because I can cut both ends from the same side of the board.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

tyb525 said:


> There's a reason real plumb bobs are machined round and balanced, if there is more weight on one side it will throw it out of plumb.


Right:thumbsup: And a surfboard with a sanded finish gos faster than a surfboard with a glossy finish resin finish!


----------



## mgb

Dunno if it was mentioned. But while grasping a pencil, using your ringfinger as a guide to mark parrallel lines. It's fast and really accurate. 

And rips for a skillsaw pinching the table with your index finger/thumb as a guide. Again can be pretty accurate once your used to it. Get ready for the odd sliver.


----------



## steex

You can use a pair of vicegrips instead of your finger as a saw guide, and it will stay accurate for as many cuts as you need.


----------



## FramingPro

steex said:


> You can use a pair of vicegrips instead of your finger as a saw guide, and it will stay accurate for as many cuts as you need.


No slivers :thumbsup:


----------



## TheGrizz

mgb said:


> Get ready for the odd sliver.


One of the guys I work with occasionally will wrap the knuckle of his index finger with electricians tape to keep from getting splinters.


----------



## Bearded Wonder

mgb said:


> Dunno if it was mentioned. But while grasping a pencil, using your ringfinger as a guide to mark parrallel lines. It's fast and really accurate. And rips for a skillsaw pinching the table with your index finger/thumb as a guide. Again can be pretty accurate once your used to it. Get ready for the odd sliver.


When I was framing a lot, the side of my left index finger was like a piece of leather from doing that. Run it right down the side of sheet of osb, no prob.


----------



## Birch

I lock the tape and use the body against the edge, hook the pencil on the end, avoid splinters at both ends. With the saw (sidewinder) I slip the pencil (perpendicular to the blade) under the toe of the foot, hand grip, and use it as the finger fence, no splinters there either. The small vise-grip is a good repeat rip method too, they are way handy for many things, like on the fly hose end repairs.


----------



## noelski100

*old schooler tricks*

Anyone mention this one ? 

Actually got it from a customer watching me at work trying to chop out
some strip flooring I had to patch and weave back in.

He was like "why dont' you cut it down the middle ?" 

Larry I thank you.


----------



## Warren

mgb said:


> Dunno if it was mentioned. But while grasping a pencil, using your ringfinger as a guide to mark parrallel lines. It's fast and really accurate.
> 
> And rips for a skillsaw pinching the table with your index finger/thumb as a guide. Again can be pretty accurate once your used to it. Get ready for the odd sliver.


We refer to that first one as "striping"
My drywall experience has made me a master at it.


----------



## noelski100

*coping*

That is the gist of the whole "old schooler" theme of this thread. 
You see somebody doing something, in this case coping his inside
corners, and from that day forward you do it that way because it is
actuallly better and easier to get a nice joint. And half the cutting
is square cuts as you go around the room. 

That was 1982, saw some guys putting up some 3 1/2" crown, coping
the inside corners. You miter an inside corner and it never seems to stay
good for very long, that is if it still looks ok after lunch.

Can't get myself to miter inside corners on anything that can be coped.


----------



## music9704

Gough said:


> We always use a really small drill bit and just twist it between thumb and forefinger of the other hand to drain the blood under a smashed finger.
> 
> True story: a carpenter overheard us talking about this and smashed his finger a few days later. He hadn't been paying quite enough attention to our discussion and missed a few important details, like the part about twisting the bit between thumb and forefinger. His wife saw him head into the bathroom with a cordless drill, then heard a loud scream a minute later. He had chucked the bit into his cordless and used that to drill through his fingernail. Needless to say, he overshot the mark and drilled into the nailbed. Apparently. that is fairly painful.


Well, my uncle drilled his nail to relieve blood. Then he went to doc to see if his finger was broken. He did a good job with the drill, according to the doctor; right before he had removed the nail to see if my uncle had done any damage with the bit.


----------



## music9704

tape your finger when scribing wood using tape and penil. It will help from getting splinters.


----------



## music9704

mgb said:


> Dunno if it was mentioned. But while grasping a pencil, using your ringfinger as a guide to mark parrallel lines. It's fast and really accurate.
> 
> And rips for a skillsaw pinching the table with your index finger/thumb as a guide. Again can be pretty accurate once your used to it. Get ready for the odd sliver.


Yeah I do this all the time. Tape your finger to keep from getting splinters. electrical tape ....


----------



## BenderBoy

Some for siding...

I keep a small bottle of white automotive touchup paint with the little brush in the truck. Works great for hitting the heads of trim nails, small scratches on aluminum, etc. I used to use those paint pens but they just seemed to go on too thin and not last.

Having some strong double sided tape is great for hanging small items like those cheap house numbers people get from hd without putting holes in the siding.

When bending trim use a mechanical pencil. It's amazing how perfect fascia seems to fit together when marked with one.


----------



## asgoodasdead

IrishAsh said:


> If you want to mark a line between two points quickly under 4ft or so flip the blade of your measuring tape over hook it on and pull it tight, lining up the marks.
> 
> The blade goes ridged and you can run your pencil alongside it marking your line.


this is how I cut plywood 95% of the time. only use my chalkline if I absolutely have to.


----------



## ObuckiO

IrishAsh said:


> If you want to mark a line between two points quickly under 4ft or so flip the blade of your measuring tape over hook it on and pull it tight, lining up the marks.
> 
> The blade goes ridged and you can run your pencil alongside it marking your line.


That reminds me of an old marking method. When cutting a bunch of blocks, i'll pull the first measurement then reverse the tape and hold the next measurement on that mark, and scribe a line on the outside of hook(adding 1/8 for saw blade).


----------



## Johnnynuclear

*ooouuuch!*

"Never hold a spike while someone else hammers it" ~~
Always keep a small tube of Goop Glue in your tool belt.
Always keep a roll of toilet paper in truck.
Always have a basic first aid kit nearby.
Always have a can of bug repellant & can of wasp/ hornet spray.
Always have a dog treat in your tool belt.
Always have a $20. spot hidden somewhere in ur vehicle.
Wow, i could go on & on...


----------



## asgoodasdead

Johnnynuclear said:


> "Never hold a spike while someone else hammers"


has anyone ever actually done this? I can't imagine any situation where this wouldn't be a completely common sense-ridden move


----------



## ObuckiO

asgoodasdead said:


> has anyone ever actually done this? I can't imagine any situation where this wouldn't be a completely common sense-ridden move


Actually Yes. 
I've hit nails other people held while we both held onto something with other arm. The most occurrence I can remember was trying to nail a brace up high on a gable/truss.
**Before they had magnets on hammers**


----------



## SamM

Kinda like the "don't hold the post when someone else hammers it in rule". My uncle is a firm believer in that rule after fencing with my dad for a day


----------



## Leo G

When I nod my head, you hit it.


----------



## hdavis

Why would you want someone to hit your head?


----------



## Leo G

It was from the 3 Stooges. Moe wanted Curly to hit the nail with a hammer when he nodded his head.

So Curly hit his head because he said "When I nod my head, you hit it"


----------



## ObuckiO

I can't recall us every hitting each other with a hammer, although I've been shot by someone else's nail gun. From about 10ft away and right in the chest. Stuck like a dart.


----------



## Reg

ObuckiO said:


> I can't recall us every hitting each other with a hammer, although I've been shot by someone else's nail gun. From about 10ft away and right in the chest. Stuck like a dart.


 Glad you're here talking with us today.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

ObuckiO said:


> I can't recall us every hitting each other with a hammer, although I've been shot by someone else's nail gun. From about 10ft away and right in the chest. Stuck like a dart.


Yeah... happy you're around today.... but tell us how that actually happended...

can understand how you could shoot yourself, or under bump fire, but how did it happen to shhoot across 10 feet.....

Maybe we could all learn/be aware of something....

TIA


----------



## ObuckiO

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Yeah... happy you're around today.... but tell us how that actually happended...
> 
> can understand how you could shoot yourself, or under bump fire, but how did it happen to shhoot across 10 feet.....
> 
> Maybe we could all learn/be aware of something....
> 
> TIA


Thanks, and to Reg also.

A fellow worker was building a wall and the top plate had a rounded edge. 
Kinda barked up or a knot knocked out. I was working across the room. 

It went in me maybe an inch or so. It was sore for a few hours.


----------



## Boda

In regards to the warm feet in winter don't wear cotton, its just asking for cold feet. Cotton absorbs moisture and you're left with wet socks. Stop moving and then you have cold wet socks. Instead try using polypropylene liner socks underneath wool socks.

The polyproylene wicks the moisture away from your feet and sends it to the wool. The wool also wicks, so the moisture should be on the outside of the wool.

I have been doing this for years, it really does help. Ive been using these: http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=403224


----------



## FramingPro

I just measure a string of cuts ... 16...32...48 etc and then keep my blade to the same side of the line each time and it works perfectly for me


----------



## ubcguy89

BenderBoy said:


> I always make it a point to show up early, but to those guys that are running behind don't forget the coffee and donuts :thumbup:


If I'm not the first guy in the job I'm usually a close second. It's shows something when you get to work early, it got me a long way!


----------



## Reg

ObuckiO said:


> Thanks, and to Reg also.
> 
> A fellow worker was building a wall and the top plate had a rounded edge.
> Kinda barked up or a knot knocked out. I was working across the room.
> 
> It went in me maybe an inch or so. It was sore for a few hours.


That was my guess. Corner nailing and not shooting straight, so any one who happens to be in the line of fire.....


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

Reg said:


> That was my guess. Corners nailing and not shooting straight, so any one who happens to be in the line of fire.....


Obuck... My guess would have been similar... that someone left it on bump... got to framing... and took a bad shot at a corner.

I'll only go to bump on floor sheathing.... and something that is super repitive with no interuptions in use where you could miss.


----------



## SamM

I have a friend who did something like that. Didn't want to set more staging so he was reaching over his head nailing In the top plate. Gun bounced, caught the corner, fired a nail that pinned two of his fingers together. 

His advice was to get above what your working on. 

When he did the same thing again a couple years later, he decided to take his own advice (that shot went straight into the base of his thumb)


----------



## Tinstaafl

Gun doesn't have to be on bump to take a bad shot. I've sent a few into orbit just because I was at an extremely awkward angle--or just a bit careless. Fortunately, I'm pretty anal about making sure nobody's in my possible line of fire.


----------



## ObuckiO

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Obuck... My guess would have been similar... that someone left it on bump... got to framing... and took a bad shot at a corner.
> 
> I'll only go to bump on floor sheathing.... and something that is super repitive with no interuptions in use where you could miss.


A friend of mine was on a crew, and told me one guy was going up an extension ladder with a nail gun, and another fellow climbed up behind him, ran his head right into the nail guns tip, the guy pulled up the nail gun(pressing the trigger), and it fired right through his hardhat into his head. He amazingly survived without a life threatening injury, but never heard from him since.


----------



## ubcguy89

Tinstaafl said:


> Gun doesn't have to be on bump to take a bad shot. I've sent a few into orbit just because I was at an extremely awkward angle--or just a bit careless. Fortunately, I'm pretty anal about making sure nobody's in my possible line of fire.


If you use a nail gun long enough, it's only a matter of time until you shoot yourself. I got myself once so far on a side job. I was nailing off a corner stud, nail hit a knot and deflected into the palm of my hand. Deep puncture wound


----------



## ObuckiO

ubcguy89 said:


> If you use a nail gun long enough, it's only a matter of time until you shoot yourself. I got myself once so far on a side job. I was nailing off a corner stud, nail hit a knot and deflected into the palm of my hand. Deep puncture wound


I first started out in interior trim, which corner-bead and strike plates were always a threat of curling the finish nail back at your fingers. I would estimate a good 5-6 has got me with no major injury.


----------



## FramingPro

Had one guy shoot me in the chest a while back.. Nose was right on the edge of the plate to be pressed.. barrel was clearly above that :laughing:
Had my big coat on that day :thumbup:


----------



## music9704

ObuckiO said:


> I can't recall us every hitting each other with a hammer, although I've been shot by someone else's nail gun. From about 10ft away and right in the chest. Stuck like a dart.


Yes, I shot my own hand accidentally, by hitting the safety while holding the trigger. 12 penny went up tight, right threw my palm. A Month later I shot a guy in the leg from three feet away. Yeah, I almost quit construction. That was about 20 yr ago. I should have. :blink:


----------



## ObuckiO

music9704 said:


> Yes, I shot my own hand accidentally, by hitting the safety while holding the trigger. 12 penny went up tight, right threw my palm. A Month later I shot a guy in the leg from three feet away. Yeah, I almost quit construction. That was about 20 yr ago. I should have. :blink:


It's one of our trades most dangerous hazard. I disagree when I see people taking the spring off the nose safety or too stubborn to replace a broken one. It only takes a split second to alter someones life or your own.


----------



## donerightwyo

If you don't want the drywaller's to ruin your wires with their zipper fold the wires into the box instead of rolling. Folding keeps the ends of the wires at front of the box instead of the middle.

Of course if your a sparky that has been rolling your wires for 40 years you probably won't take kindly to me telling you how you should do it. But I'm gonna tell you anyway:whistling


----------



## Inner10

donerightwyo said:


> If you don't want the drywaller's to ruin your wires with their zipper fold the wires into the box instead of rolling. Folding keeps the ends of the wires at front of the box instead of the middle.
> 
> Of course if your a sparky that has been rolling your wires for 40 years you probably won't take kindly to me telling you how you should do it. But I'm gonna tell you anyway:whistling


Doesn't matter how they get in there, just mash em in with the butt of your hammer handle.


----------



## donerightwyo

Inner10 said:


> Doesn't matter how they get in there, just mash em in with the butt of your hammer handle.


That's step two:laughing:


----------



## Inner10

Most of the jobs I work on the drywaller is so baked he covers up the entire electrical box instead of cutting every wire in it. :laughing:


----------



## donerightwyo

But seriously, if you had to do drywall everyday for the rest of your life wouldn't you be baked to


----------



## buzzards27

We had hired on my dad (well past his prime) onto a Bob Evans build. Several of us were on the interior flat roof covering the parapet walls around the mechanicals. Three inside covering opposite interior wall with concrete board, dad outside ramseting 2x4 girts to the 4x4 steel posts... of course dad found a 3/4" hole (bolt hole i guess) with one shot and put a nail into the concrete board 30' away, just missing two of us. 

.


ObuckiO said:


> Thanks, and to Reg also.
> 
> A fellow worker was building a wall and the top plate had a rounded edge.
> Kinda barked up or a knot knocked out. I was working across the room.
> 
> It went in me maybe an inch or so. It was sore for a few hours.


----------



## ObuckiO

buzzards27 said:


> We had hired on my dad (well past his prime) onto a Bob Evans build. Several of us were on the interior flat roof covering the parapet walls around the mechanicals. Three inside covering opposite interior wall with concrete board, dad outside ramseting 2x4 girts to the 4x4 steel posts... of course dad found a 3/4" hole (bolt hole i guess) with one shot and put a nail into the concrete board 30' away, just missing two of us.
> 
> .


I've had a similar incident with my dad, but me and him were hunting.:laughing:

Anyhow, that would be at the top of the nail gun hazards. I've never(luckily) seen any mishaps go wrong with a Ramset.


----------



## heavy_d

FramingPro said:


> I just measure a string of cuts ... 16...32...48 etc and then keep my blade to the same side of the line each time and it works perfectly for me


Right, but after the 16, you add an eighth or so for kerf, so 16, 32 1/8, 48 1/8, etc.


----------



## asgoodasdead

if you keep your blade to the same side of the line you don't need to add an 1/8th. I never add an 1/8" to anything when framing. trim, yeah of course.


----------



## Stephen H

buzzards27 said:


> We had hired on my dad (well past his prime) onto a Bob Evans build. Several of us were on the interior flat roof covering the parapet walls around the mechanicals. Three inside covering opposite interior wall with concrete board, dad outside ramseting 2x4 girts to the 4x4 steel posts... of course dad found a 3/4" hole (bolt hole i guess) with one shot and put a nail into the concrete board 30' away, just missing two of us.
> 
> .


 Dude- are you using the old WMMS logo as your avatar????????
:clap:

Stephen


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

Stephen H said:


> Dude- are you using the old WMMS logo as your avatar????????
> :clap:
> 
> Stephen


WMMS.....? Just curiousty

TIA


----------



## ubcguy89

Inner10 said:


> Doesn't matter how they get in there, just mash em in with the butt of your hammer handle.


When I'm hanging the first thing I do when I walk into a room is take the back of my hatchet and push all of the wires in


----------



## Stephen H

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> WMMS.....? Just curiousty
> 
> TIA


 Wmms was the best hard rock station in NEOhio back in the 70's

the Stones, Pink floyd, Skynard........
what you BLASTED out of your Charger while you were peeling out of the H.S. parking lot to start the WEEKEND man

the apex of which-at 5:00 on Friday they played springsteen"Born to Run" as a zillion doobies were flamed up across NE Ohio

then-at around midnight they would play as yet un-released albums and you would record them off of the air onto your reel to reel------so that you could play them later on complete with tape hiss and crackle the way God Meant rock and Roll to be heard.........

It's a local thing, man

Stephen


----------



## asgoodasdead

FramingPro said:


> For stubborn boards i toenail them with the gun, then pound.. then face nail.


we nail our subfascia from above so if it's gotta go up, you can't toenail. if it's gotta go down, yeah I do the same thing.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

asgoodasdead said:


> we nail our subfascia from above so if it's gotta go up, you can't toenail. if it's gotta go down, yeah I do the same thing.


I like to just step on the tail and pull the bottom of the facsia to make it come up.


----------



## asgoodasdead

That works when you still have a lot of loose board to work with, but when you near the end and it's too stiff to do that, you use nails


----------



## FramingPro

asgoodasdead said:


> That works when you still have a lot of loose board to work with, but when you near the end and it's too stiff to do that, you use nails


Oh the fun ive had hanging 16' fascia alone.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

asgoodasdead said:


> That works when you still have a lot of loose board to work with, but when you near the end and it's too stiff to do that, you use nails


More mass:thumbsup:


----------



## ObuckiO

This one old school framer I worked for used concrete dye/cement color mix, instead of chalk in his lines, (I think this was before they ever had any spray to put on chalk lines). It seemed to stay visible after a rain, snow or just a damp deck, but I haven't stuck to his habit since them days.


----------



## Leo G

Red chalk will do that. Don't use it if you want it to disappear.


----------



## pritch

Best thing I ever learned was how to balance 15 nails on the head of another. I don't know how many lunches the new guys bought me over that one!:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## ObuckiO

Reason for my post above^^^

We snapped lines sometimes all day at apartment buildings, hotels and such, which had big crews to try and stay in front of. So sometimes we wouldn't even build the walls, but he made sure what went where.


----------



## vos

when trying to lay out a pice of sheet good that has no right angels make 2 reference lines and bace all measurements of of them. i use rather a red pencil or chalk like for these.


----------



## heavy_d

asgoodasdead said:


> if you keep your blade to the same side of the line you don't need to add an 1/8th. I never add an 1/8" to anything when framing. trim, yeah of course.


Ok so you are telling me that if you hook on a board and mark 16, 32, 48, etc and cut them all on the right side of the line that they will all be the same? Nope. You will have lots at 15 7/8 and only the first will be 16. Reasonable for mid-girt blocks in walls I suppose as some wiggle room is nice but for anything else my boss (and I if I was boss) would blow a gasket.


----------



## ObuckiO

heavy_d said:


> Ok so you are telling me that if you hook on a board and mark 16, 32, 48, etc and cut them all on the right side of the line that they will all be the same? Nope. You will have lots at 15 7/8 and only the first will be 16. Reasonable for mid-girt blocks in walls I suppose as some wiggle room is nice but for anything else my boss (and I if I was boss) would blow a gasket.


I agree. 
We use 25 1/2" blocks when doing trusses(out to outside braces), and will tack 4 lineal flush together. 
Measure: 25-1/2"***51-1/8"***76-3/4"***102-3/8"...etc.
(The 3 other lineal will have blade marks scribed)


----------



## buzzards27

FramingPro said:


> Oh the fun ive had hanging 16' fascia alone.


I always found it went much quicker with two, one nailing off from one end while the other raised or lowered the other end based on cues from the nailer.


----------



## heavy_d

buzzards27 said:


> I always found it went much quicker with two, one nailing off from one end while the other raised or lowered the other end based on cues from the nailer.


Of course it does, he was being sarcastic.. maybe you are too, who knows. 

Has anyone snapped chalklines on your rafter tails to nail facia too? A crew I used to work with did this.


----------



## buzzards27

vos said:


> when trying to lay out a pice of sheet good that has no right angels make 2 reference lines and bace all measurements of of them. i use rather a red pencil or chalk like for these.


Actually, swinging arcs from any two points on the field (trianglulation) will get you there, too.


----------



## asgoodasdead

heavy_d said:


> Of course it does, he was being sarcastic.. maybe you are too, who knows.
> 
> Has anyone snapped chalklines on your rafter tails to nail facia too? A crew I used to work with did this.


I'm sure the siding guys love chiseling the rafters that sit below the fascia when you do this.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

ObuckiO said:


> I agree.
> We use 25 1/2" blocks when doing trusses(out to outside braces), and will tack 4 lineal flush together.
> Measure: 25-1/2"***51-1/8"***76-3/4"***102-3/8"...etc.
> (The 3 other lineal will have blade marks scribed)


WHat:blink: Where do you put these blocks? Why don't you just cut them 22½" put the between the vertical and leave them there?



heavy_d said:


> Of course it does, he was being sarcastic.. maybe you are too, who knows.


 Or maybe he hangs the board by himself! I've hung miles of it by myself.


heavy_d said:


> Has anyone snapped chalklines on your rafter tails to nail facia too? A crew I used to work with did this.


:no:


----------



## ObuckiO

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> WHat:blink: Where do you put these blocks? Why don't you just cut them 22½" put the between the vertical and leave them there?


We put them on top of the chords(25-1/2" out to out). We knock them off when the plywood reaches that high(usually 3rd row). Besides, that too much lumber to burn to leave them there. We reuse them for other blocking.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

ObuckiO said:


> We put them on top of the chords(25-1/2" out to out). We knock them off when the plywood reaches that high(usually 3rd row). Besides, that too much lumber to burn to leave them there. We reuse them for other blocking.


For us once you stop to pull them off and pull the nails to reuse them you've already lost money so may as well leave them in. I'm thinking we get paid more out here?


----------



## TimelessQuality

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> For us once you stop to pull them off and pull the nails to reuse them you've already lost money so may as well leave them in. I'm thinking we get paid more out here?


Unless they're putting them on top of the top chord...


----------



## ObuckiO

Boda said:


> I'm confused about why you would put blocks in trusses. We use 1x4's as a temporary stay lath while spreading. Tack a 8d nail in each truss thru the 1x4, peel it off when you get to it while sheeting.


Do you mean blocks in-between or blocks period?(why you would put blocks in trusses.)
Part of my answer would be, they don't never deliver any 1X's, but other than that, you take about the same approach we do.


----------



## FramingPro

Burn 1 foot... you will catch a foot before you catch 1":whistling


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

FramingPro said:


> Burn 1 foot... you will catch a foot before you catch 1":whistling


Really true for me.......^^^^^^^

FramingPro....... I sure had a few rafters/joists 1" short before I realized your advice...... and I know one deck that was built at a trapezoid at both 6' and 5'11" wide.....:laughing:

Ya get on auto-pilot, go dyxlecsic, and that damn 6 and 9 on the tape can sure get transposed... never found an easy trick except to double look everytime a 6 and 9 is invoved.

Best


----------



## mikeswoods

FramingPro said:


> Burn 1 foot... you will catch a foot before you catch 1":whistling


I hold the ruler at 10 inches----easier math for me than 12 inches---


----------



## Leo G

That's what I do too Mike.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC

mikeswoods said:


> I hold the ruler at 10 inches----easier math for me than 12 inches---


Yes.... Guess its what ya get used to.... 8-8 or 104


----------



## mikeswoods

As a trim guy I think in inches--never feet---


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

FramingPro said:


> Burn 1 foot... you will catch a foot before you catch 1":whistling


NO BURNING ON THE JOB!!!! Hook the mother!
After roll up all fair tho:whistling


----------



## Reg

This is especially helpful when working in a cabinet shop or large shop. Wrap some florescent vinyl around your air nozzles as they are easier to find when you remove them from the hose. We were always misplacing ours at our shop. You can get super quality "free" vinyl at any sign shop. They always seem to have scrap ready for the trash bin. Fun for your kids to play with too.


----------



## Leo G

I just spray paint stuff with fluorescent orange paint if I keep losing it.


----------



## Reg

Leo G said:


> I just spray paint stuff with fluorescent orange paint if I keep losing it.


Mmmmm. yeah, that would work too. I guess, my way, you don't have to wait for it to dry and for a bonus, it comes in reflective just in case you need to find it in the dark on an outside job. :laughing:

Those things get expensive to lose.


----------



## vos

just buy a 1" wide roll of scotch light


----------



## ObuckiO

Not really a trick, but I've narrowed down my best remedy for the cracked finger tips that seem to occur around this time of year. I've tried O'Keefe's working hands, Vaseline, Rose salve and many different lotions, however I found *Aquaphor* healing ointment helps the best with this annoying ache and hassle.


----------



## SAcarpenter

ObuckiO said:


> Not really a trick, but I've narrowed down my best remedy for the cracked finger tips that seem to occur around this time of year. I've tried O'Keefe's working hands, Vaseline, Rose salve and many different lotions, however I found Aquaphor healing ointment helps the best with this annoying ache and hassle.


I use that stuff to lube up my kids after bath time. Works great!


----------



## ObuckiO

SAcarpenter said:


> I use that stuff to lube up my kids after bath time. Works great!


There's a downside about this ointment... My keyboard is a mess and it is not touch screen friendly. I couldn't get the answer button/unlock bar to slide over on phone.


----------



## Reg

that's because the main ingredient is petroleum jelly. It doesn't get more slippery than that.


----------



## asgoodasdead

here's another trick. whatever you're gonna put on your hands, put it on before bed. stays on your hands untouched for the 8 hours you're sleeping and won't get on your phone or whatever else.


----------



## SamM

asgoodasdead said:


> here's another trick. whatever you're gonna put on your hands, put it on before bed. stays on your hands untouched for the 8 hours you're sleeping and won't get on your phone or whatever else.


And if you have a serious problem, coat you hands completely then put on cotton gloves before bed. Keeps em wet all night.


----------



## ObuckiO

I dabbed it on the sore spots and band-aid, then wrapped with medical tape. 
It's amazing how much we rely on our hands and when a little thing like this distracts the use of our thumb(s), i'm grateful it's only temporary.


----------



## asgoodasdead

I also put superglue in the cuts


----------



## hdavis

Not from a contractor - from a gymnast. Put Preparation H on your hands and put lightweight cotton gloves on them before you go to bed. Helps heal sore areas.


----------



## Jamieth29

Kinda in the time before calcs were popular but still handy when you don't want to carry a framing square or have a line to pull from...12 12=17 or 24 24=34 I also like the trick to just turn the top nail and hold the clip with your hand right on the clip of hanger nails to get in a tight spot.


----------



## Unger.const

asgoodasdead said:


> I also put superglue in the cuts


I put super glue one everything except for what I am trying to glue.


----------



## atvalaska

Whole flax seed.......get some tiny azz saw dust type chit in your eye...pull back lower lid, drop in "1 flax seed"....close eye -look around with eye closed ....wah-la>>> open your eye and (the hairs/feelers that go around the seed) u will have magically grabbed the chit in your eye!!! remove the seed ->>>>>>>Now get back to work u slackers!!!


----------



## donerightwyo

atvalaska said:


> Whole flax seed.......get some tiny azz saw dust type chit in your eye...pull back lower lid, drop in "1 flax seed"....close eye -look around with eye closed ....wah-la>>> open your eye and (the hairs/feelers that go around the seed) u will have magically grabbed the chit in your eye!!! remove the seed ->>>>>>>Now get back to work u slackers!!!


Really:blink: I never heard that one. Where does one get a flax seed?


----------



## superseal

donerightwyo said:


> Really:blink: I never heard that one. Where does one get a flax seed?


I think Bob carry's them :laughing:

http://www.bobsredmill.com/brown-flaxseeds.html


----------



## totes

Staple your felt and house wrap fasteners on the stud lines. It make life easier later.


----------



## totes

put on latex/nitrile gloves on, under your gloves on concrete day. Also helps keeps hands warm on rain days.


----------



## Brian Peters

atvalaska said:


> Whole flax seed.......get some tiny azz saw dust type chit in your eye...pull back lower lid, drop in "1 flax seed"....close eye -look around with eye closed ....wah-la>>> open your eye and (the hairs/feelers that go around the seed) u will have magically grabbed the chit in your eye!!! remove the seed ->>>>>>>Now get back to work u slackers!!!


Is this an April fools or are you for real?


----------



## atvalaska

*you buy in bulk and keep a few in a pill bottle !*




donerightwyo said:


> Really:blink: I never heard that one. Where does one get a flax seed?


it works ...my father in law who's in his 80's did it back on the farm in the day'....then he roofed and drove nails for some 20 years then farmed the next 35........tough old bird :thumbsup:


----------



## Brian Peters

This is one I just taught myself...I'm not really an old schooler but anyway..
I was ripping some narrow strips on my table saw (cutting shims) and they kept falling down beside the blade, so I fixed it. 









Simple, black electrical tape I had, but it did the trick!


----------



## smalpierre

Brian Peters said:


> This is one I just taught myself...I'm not really an old schooler but anyway..
> I was ripping some narrow strips on my table saw (cutting shims) and they kept falling down beside the blade, so I fixed it.
> 
> View attachment 110520
> 
> 
> Simple, black electrical tape I had, but it did the trick!


Or you can get a zero clearance insert that also will prevent tearout from destroying tiny pieces.


----------



## smalpierre

I learned this trick from a flooring guy, but I use it for a lot of other things now too:

When installing a tight fitting material like VCT and you get to the cut piece against the wall - place another piece exactly on top of the last field piece. Take another piece and but it against the wall, and lay on top and use for a cut guide with a razor knife.

This will make it so tight you don't even need shoe. Faster and easier than a guillotine, no special tools, cuts made at the install site ... Move the guide piece from wall to wall to get corner pieces.

You can use a pencil as an alternative. I use this trick for grouted tile too, but I shift the piece a grout line width toward the wall.

The sheet vinyl trick is to use the smaller size razor knife hook blades than roofers use. After you rough cut, and have corners exact, use a stair tool to crease the vinyl by running a corner of it across the wall. Then hold the small hook razor tight to wall and ZIIPPPP!!!

These guys were installing apartments without removing shoe, or toilets. 1/4" caulk bead to base or shoe, and around toilets. Not how I'd do it in a house, but it's fast when you do it right, and never a worry about shoe not covering.

The rough cut stage is key, and it's hard to describe without a video. Doing it that way I can install a simple apartment bath in about 20 minutes from clean substrate to installed caulked and cleaned up.


----------



## Brian Peters

smalpierre said:


> Or you can get a zero clearance insert that also will prevent tearout from destroying tiny pieces.


I know about the insert...this was just a very quick and cheap fix for the problem I was facing at the moment.


----------



## Unger.const

smalpierre said:


> I learned this trick from a flooring guy, but I use it for a lot of other things now too:
> 
> When installing a tight fitting material like VCT and you get to the cut piece against the wall - place another piece exactly on top of the last field piece. Take another piece and but it against the wall, and lay on top and use for a cut guide with a razor knife.
> 
> This will make it so tight you don't even need shoe. Faster and easier than a guillotine, no special tools, cuts made at the install site ... Move the guide piece from wall to wall to get corner pieces.
> 
> You can use a pencil as an alternative. I use this trick for grouted tile too, but I shift the piece a grout line width toward the wall.
> 
> The sheet vinyl trick is to use the smaller size razor knife hook blades than roofers use. After you rough cut, and have corners exact, use a stair tool to crease the vinyl by running a corner of it across the wall. Then hold the small hook razor tight to wall and ZIIPPPP!!!
> 
> These guys were installing apartments without removing shoe, or toilets. 1/4" caulk bead to base or shoe, and around toilets. Not how I'd do it in a house, but it's fast when you do it right, and never a worry about shoe not covering.
> 
> The rough cut stage is key, and it's hard to describe without a video. Doing it that way I can install a simple apartment bath in about 20 minutes from clean substrate to installed caulked and cleaned up.


Uh-huh can I get a picture or two of that in action? My brain can't draw the picture right.


----------



## smalpierre

Unger.const said:


> Uh-huh can I get a picture or two of that in action? My brain can't draw the picture right.


I'll make a video sometime soon, pics might not be enough. If you install VCT, it's the fastest and most accurate way by a long shot. Might show you with a different material though, it's been a while since I've installed VCT.


----------



## BBuild

Brian Peters said:


> This is one I just taught myself...I'm not really an old schooler but anyway..
> I was ripping some narrow strips on my table saw (cutting shims) and they kept falling down beside the blade, so I fixed it.
> 
> Simple, black electrical tape I had, but it did the trick!


A safer way to make very thin rips is to clamp a block to the table on the left side of the blade keeping the fence on the right. You use the block as a stop and move the fence over till the piece hits the block after each cut. The off cut is now the piece you want leaving plenty of room for your hand or a push stick on the right. Rockler makes a jig for this that fits in the miter slot.


----------



## Brian Peters

This is how I make shims...


----------



## Patsfanindallas

Brian Peters said:


> This is how I make shims...


damn good method, I'm gonna use that.


----------



## Leo G

I just cut them on my chopsaw. 8" long board, as wide as I can find, usually 12" and set the angle about 1-1.5 degree. Make the first cut and then keep flipping the board over on every cut. Gives you about a 2-3 degree shim.


----------



## Brian Peters

Leo G said:


> I just cut them on my chopsaw. 8" long board, as wide as I can find, usually 12" and set the angle about 1-1.5 degree. Make the first cut and then keep flipping the board over on every cut. Gives you about a 2-3 degree shim.


I have a cousin who used to work in a shim shop ..they made shims to sell, like what you get at the lumberyard. They used a bandsaw and could whip them out pretty fast!


----------



## Leo G

If I was to make them as a business I would have jigs setup on the TS with a very thin kerf blade. You can whip them out pretty quick.

I do them on the chopsaw before I leave for an install. For the longest time I had some rebutted cedar shingles that I'd just cut up on the tablesaw. But they are to expensive to buy as shim material, but when it's left over material it's OK by me. I haven't done a cedar shingle job in over a decade. The box lasted me for years.


----------



## hdavis

Leo G said:


> If I was to make them as a business I would have jigs setup on the TS with a very thin kerf blade. You can whip them out pretty quick.


I'd try a couple circ saws running on guides or tracks. 2 shims per pass, and I think I could auto feed and auto cut. Start it and walk away.


----------



## smalpierre

Unger.const said:


> Uh-huh can I get a picture or two of that in action? My brain can't draw the picture right.


It's just a way to scribe the cut. In the photo, the bottom tile is glued down, last piece before the cut. The piece you're going to cut gets set exactly on top, the third piece sticking out to the right gets bumped to the wall and used as a guide. Imagine a wall at the table edge. Score and snap with razor knife for VCT. The piece under your guide is the drop. If the wall is out of square, your cut will be exact.

I do pretty much the same thing with laminate floors for marking rips.

For ceramic, I shift the middle piece toward the wall by a grout line width and mark.


----------



## steex

Sam Smith saws shims at the shim shop.
Sam Smith saws shims at the shim shop.
Sam Smith saws shims at the shim shop.


----------



## ubcguy89

Leo G said:


> I just cut them on my chopsaw. 8" long board, as wide as I can find, usually 12" and set the angle about 1-1.5 degree. Make the first cut and then keep flipping the board over on every cut. Gives you about a 2-3 degree shim.


I use my circular saw on a 2x first cut angled in next cut straight, then angled the. Straight I can cut about 20 in 30 seconds. It's just shims they do not gotta be perfect


----------



## pritch

hdavis said:


> Not from a contractor - from a gymnast. Put Preparation H on your hands and put lightweight cotton gloves on them before you go to bed. Helps heal sore areas.


We used to use Bag Balm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bag_Balm

Most all the concrete finishers I knew had a can in their trowel bucket.


----------



## mrcharles

Brian Peters said:


> This is how I make shims...
> 
> View attachment 110758


You make your own shims? I've got better stuff to do with my time.


----------



## mrcharles

Leo G said:


> If I was to make them as a business I would have jigs setup on the TS with a very thin kerf blade. You can whip them out pretty quick.
> 
> I do them on the chopsaw before I leave for an install. For the longest time I had some rebutted cedar shingles that I'd just cut up on the tablesaw. But they are to expensive to buy as shim material, but when it's left over material it's OK by me. I haven't done a cedar shingle job in over a decade. The box lasted me for years.




I did have half a bundle of left over shingles I kept in the trailer and I would cut those up for shims for a while. Finally got sick of having it riding around all the time and gave the bundle to a neighbor doing shake on his house.


----------



## Brian Peters

mrcharles said:


> You make your own shims? I've got better stuff to do with my time.


I had the table saw set up, lots of scrap lumber... I needed shims and I'm 20 minutes from the closest lumberyard. Plus I can make them as thick or thin as I want, just slide the fence over.


----------



## Reg

Hopefully not a repeat but when using the edge sander, sometimes it's hard to see if you sanded the whole edge especially if you are moving from one grit to a higher grit. Take a pencil and scribble along the edge. When you sand it, any pencil left on is where you missed.


----------



## smalpierre

If you're cutting into PVC conduit with wires inside, wrap some cotton string around it and use it like a wire saw. only works with cotton twine. it cuts a lot faster than you'd think. Last week I grabbed the string to make a couple of cuts on the ground when I could have dug out the hacksaw 

also good for tight spots where you can't get a saw. if wires are in it you Dont risk cutting them. just gotta be a bit careful with the insulation.


----------



## Inner10

smalpierre said:


> If you're cutting into PVC conduit with wires inside, wrap some cotton string around it and use it like a wire saw. only works with cotton twine. it cuts a lot faster than you'd think. Last week I grabbed the string to make a couple of cuts on the ground when I could have dug out the hacksaw
> 
> also good for tight spots where you can't get a saw. if wires are in it you Dont risk cutting them. just gotta be a bit careful with the insulation.


If you can fit a pipe cutter in there it does a much better job.


----------



## Anthill

Had one guy tell me "90 % of being a journeyman is knowing where to put your ladder". I thought it was kinda dumb at the time but I now realize there was a lot more truth in it than I first thought. I think of it almost every time I'm positioning my step ladder.


----------



## Cap'n Jim

smalpierre said:


> If you're cutting into PVC conduit with wires inside, wrap some cotton string around it and use it like a wire saw. only works with cotton twine. it cuts a lot faster than you'd think. Last week I grabbed the string to make a couple of cuts on the ground when I could have dug out the hacksaw
> 
> also good for tight spots where you can't get a saw. if wires are in it you Dont risk cutting them. just gotta be a bit careful with the insulation.


Mason twine works really well too. Don't know about conduit per-se but for PVC water pipe it's awesome.


----------



## smalpierre

workd s on PVC, probably abs as well. a pipe cutter is cleaner. Synthetic line it'll cut the line instead of the pipe. Its an in a pinch thing, I use that when the pipe is bigger than my cutter. I tried a chalk line last week and it didn't work. the chalk made it bind and stick as soon as it started cutting into the pipe.


----------



## smalpierre

Here's a trick I used years ago with success - if you're a sub working for a guy that's a screamer, without saying a word unplug air lines, and roll up. I was offered twice the money to stay. I agreed on the. condition that not one more word was said to me for the rest of the job


----------



## hdavis

Reg said:


> Hopefully not a repeat but when using the edge sander, sometimes it's hard to see if you sanded the whole edge especially if you are moving from one grit to a higher grit. Take a pencil and scribble along the edge. When you sand it, any pencil left on is where you missed.


Just don't get so used to doing that that you do it on open grained wood that's getting a clear coat:sad:


----------



## BigPoppa

TBFGhost said:


> I learned the whole dull the nail trick in 6th grade woodshop...never understood why it worked


A sharp nail will push in between wood fibers and cause a split. A dull nail will crush the fibers as it goes through instead of pushing them to the side. At least thats the way an old timer explained it to me.


----------



## BigPoppa

DeCloud said:


> I am a trim finish carpenter ome pretty useful trick I learned was if a raw piece of finish grade piece of material has an imperfection such as a hammer mark or other indention, is to rub your saliva on it. Within about a half hour the wood will swell and can be lightly sanded afterward leaving no scarring.


Any moisture will swell the grain, I've used an iron and wet towel to steam out deep dents. Excellent trick on raw wood or if you intend to refinish anyway.


----------



## donerightwyo

Leo G said:


> Or take a shower.



I'm talking like days of itching, sleepless nights type crap. Nothing worse in the world than an itchy nutsack.:whistling


----------



## Lugnut1968

Or aftershave... that will dang sure solve the itching problem


----------



## m1911

How to turn off a breaker without walking all the way to the other end of the house, by just using a couple of finish nails...

LOL


----------



## jb4211

donerightwyo said:


> I'm talking like days of itching, sleepless nights type crap. Nothing worse in the world than an itchy nutsack.:whistling


Just FYI, itchy nuts can also be related to blood sugar issues.


----------



## m1911

jb4211 said:


> Just FYI, itchy nuts can also be related to blood sugar issues.


or rubbing your nuts after working with some FibaFuse...


----------



## SAcarpenter

I prefer the "pinch and roll" technique


----------



## [email protected]

You can use string as a tile spacer for when you need those <1/16 grout lines


----------



## MarkJames

donerightwyo said:


> Here's a life changing tip from an old schooler.
> 
> 
> If your nut sack won't stop itching rub some athlete's foot cream on it.


And put your socks on before your underwear.


----------



## donerightwyo

MarkJames said:


> And put your socks on before your underwear.


Wow, I'm learning all kinds of stuff..:laughing:


----------



## MarkJames

donerightwyo said:


> Wow, I'm learning all kinds of stuff..:laughing:


I'm not joking, either. This way any athletes foot doesn't hitch a ride on your shorts to the higher regions. (I read it somewhere else.)


----------



## m1911

MarkJames said:


> And put your socks on before your underwear.


Who wears underwear these days?:laughing:


----------



## txgencon

Wet sanding runs and sags in latex paint.


----------



## Unger.const

txgencon said:


> Wet sanding runs and sags in latex paint.


When the paint is still wet or later with a wet sandpaper?


----------



## Leo G

the latter.


----------



## txgencon

Leo G said:


> the latter.


Yes. When the paint is completely dry.


----------



## jb4211

Unger.const said:


> When the paint is still wet or later with a wet sandpaper?


If the paint was still wet, you could just feather it out.


----------



## Unger.const

jb4211 said:


> If the paint was still wet, you could just feather it out.


Well sure if you see it still fresh to feather it out. But when I catch them they are either half dry gummy or next day dry.


----------



## FramingPro

When doing a piece with a mitre on one end and square on the other.. hook the square end and cut the mitre... no point in cutting something thats already there.


----------



## Texas Wax

Shut up, stop looking around, keep swinging that hammer - 

:whistling paraphrased cause it's Sunday. There was typically a very loud 'blue cloud' of words associated with it.

Green to seasoned hand got jumped with that at least once a job, back when we still hand nailed


----------



## kingcarpenter

Quality and safety and stay away from the "buddy deals" among many others from my ol grandfather.


----------



## txgencon

Never a borrower or lender be.

I did not learn this from my dad. Well, in a way, I did. If I loan something to my dad, I plan on buying myself a new one right away because I will only get it back if I outlive him. That is provided he hasn't loaned to someone else. I do love the man greatly but his borrowing/keeping reputation is legendary at this point.


----------



## m1911

Texas Wax said:


> Shut up, stop looking around, keep swinging that hammer -
> 
> :whistling paraphrased cause it's Sunday. There was typically a very loud 'blue cloud' of words associated with it.
> 
> Green to seasoned hand got jumped with that at least once a job, back when we still hand nailed




I think that's what this old guy used to always say, "less yak, more work..."


----------



## hdavis

Someone working too slow roofing would get their pant leg nailed to the roof.


----------



## TimelessQuality

hdavis said:


> Someone working too slow roofing would get their pant leg nailed to the roof.


I'd just pull back the safety and fire away at their feet:laughing:

Now I'm older, so I worry about flat tires, so I don't


----------



## Tom M

hdavis said:


> Someone working too slow roofing would get their pant leg nailed to the roof.


We did that to a guy back in the day. Worked with a fun group of guys. We took an hour for lunch and would lay back and nap. So we tacked this guy to the roof by the perimeter of his cloths. So funny :laughing:


----------



## TheGrizz

I did something similar when I taught rappelling in high school. Had some smart ass kid come to my class that thought he was hot ****, he got his belay locked down with him suspended off the rock face about 150' in the air. Left him there for 10 minutes while I went around the corner and had a coke. Once I let him down, I never heard another word outta him all day. Never got any complaints from his parents either.


----------



## JPConst1005

My dad has taught me so many things that I am no longer sure what would be considered a "trick". The best advice he has given me was to put the hammer/trowel/brush/etc. down and let someone else do it while I take care of running the job and finding the next one.


----------



## Unger.const

txgencon said:


> Never a borrower or lender be.
> 
> I did not learn this from my dad. Well, in a way, I did. If I loan something to my dad, I plan on buying myself a new one right away because I will only get it back if I outlive him. That is provided he hasn't loaned to someone else. I do love the man greatly but his borrowing/keeping reputation is legendary at this point.


I just by double of everything. One for me and the other to prevent him saying he needs one.


----------



## Stunt Carpenter

*Best Trick You Learned From An Old Schooler*

Buy a rip guide for ripping plywood

Makes the job faster and more accurate


----------



## JasonVA

Fixing Hinge side reveal on interior doors: stick a nail or screwdriver in the hinge near the pin and close door to bend a little. It'll widen the reveal.


----------



## nmirse

*Best Trick You Learned From An Old Schooler*



Texas Wax said:


> Shut up, stop looking around, keep swinging that hammer -



My teacher said "all I want to see is elbows and ash-holes"


----------



## Unger.const

To trust your gut when you should turn down a job. Or even know when to back out before someone sets you up for an issue.

If you go against your gut you'll find out it was right. But if you trust it up front and walk it's a little harder to tell if it was mistaken or not.

I just backed out of a $50k remodel job after realizing the customer was trying to control every little cost and and threw a little tantrum when he didn't get his way. My gut was telling me up front but I kept going. When he threw his tantrum about something. I decided my gut was smarter then my wallet. I've already filled the spot with two jobs that brought more money in less then half the project time would have been.


----------



## mikeswoods

Unger.const said:


> To trust your gut when you should turn down a job. Or even know when to back out before someone sets you up for an issue.
> 
> .


:thumbsup:


----------



## MarcoPollo

Use bondo as a base boat to fill voids left by electrical boxes in old houses where trim matching is hard prior to Spackle and paint.


----------



## Unger.const

If your cutting a hole in the ceiling and you are in the attic. Prop a box up tight to the ceiling as you cut all the dust will fall into the box and be contained. Usually the box the new light or fan came in works great.


----------



## powderjester

Mrmac204 said:


> Birch, can you elaborate? I can't seem to quite get my head around this technique.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> Laurie.


 it's called missing you're miter and making up. mush miter or just sand or cut the toe of the miter flush with the end of the other outside corner piece. works well on paint grade. Looks amateurish on stain grade.


----------



## powderjester

*curved moldings.*

For arched moldings with mdf or paint grade composites rip strips at a 1/4" alternately out of two pieces and clamp to a jig. glue and pin nail. Just tried the same method with fir cuz the general insisted, didn't work fer ****. glue it up and run it through the molding planer at the slowest speed fer fuC sake.


----------



## gbruzze1

JasonVA said:


> Fixing Hinge side reveal on interior doors: stick a nail or screwdriver in the hinge near the pin and close door to bend a little. It'll widen the reveal.



And to tighten the reveal, pop the pin out of the lower 2 knuckles of the hinge. Take a small crescent wrench, and bend the jamb side knuckles towards the door. Drive pin back in place. Done. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## aptpupil

gbruzze1 said:


> And to tighten the reveal, pop the pin out of the lower 2 knuckles of the hinge. Take a small crescent wrench, and bend the jamb side knuckles towards the door. Drive pin back in place. Done.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


But don't do this on decorative cast iron hinges which will break right away... Ask me how I know.


----------



## hdavis

aptpupil said:


> But don't do this on decorative cast iron hinges which will break right away... Ask me how I know.


Or antique, original to the house cast iron ones.


----------



## Tinstaafl

gbruzze1 said:


> Take a small crescent wrench, and bend the jamb side knuckles towards the door.


Nope. You need to adjust the hinge assembly as a whole.

There's no way you're going to bend the knuckles evenly, so they're not going to be perfectly aligned. You just created a future squeak.


----------



## gbruzze1

Had it backwards but same concept...
http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/bending_hinges.html


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tinstaafl

Much respect for Gary, but the concept is still flawed and a squeak-maker. Though it should definitely pass the tail-light warranty period. :whistling:


----------



## Leo G

Sometimes when cutting larger panels it's tough to get them exactly square, for example...backs for cabinets.

So usually I'll cut the panels to height and cut the width wider then I need. I'll check corner to corner measurements to see if they are equal. If they are, then I cut it to size. If it's off then I'll put tape on the opposite corner of the longer measurement. 

Depending on how far off it is determines how thick I make the tape. And since most backs are longer then my fence I have to make the tape tapered.

I'll cut a pc of tape 8" long and put it on the correct corner. Then make a pc 16" long and overlap the first pc and then it goes another 8" past. Then cut a pc 24" long and overlap both those pcs of tape. Now I have a 3 layer thickness at the corner, a 2 layer thickness at 16" and a 1 layer thickness at 24" and a zero layer thickness at the end of the run corner.

Now you keep the fence set at the original width of the back and run the panel through. It will cut off more at the thick end and nothing at the end with no tape. Then you remove the tape and spin the board around 180 degrees. Move the fence in about 1/32" and cut the panel once again.

Now you check for square again. If you did your calculations correct then it's square. If not you just put the tape on again and repeat. When you achieve squareness you set the fence to the correct size and finish the cut off.

Much easier if it comes out square the first time. And I will not be happy at 1/32" out of square so this is why I came up with this method. I guess that makes me the Old Schooler.


----------



## J L

Leo G said:


> Sometimes when cutting larger panels it's tough to get them exactly square, for example...backs for cabinets.
> 
> So usually I'll cut the panels to height and cut the width wider then I need. I'll check corner to corner measurements to see if they are equal. If they are, then I cut it to size. If it's off then I'll put tape on the opposite corner of the longer measurement.
> 
> Depending on how far off it is determines how thick I make the tape. And since most backs are longer then my fence I have to make the tape tapered.
> 
> I'll cut a pc of tape 8" long and put it on the correct corner. Then make a pc 16" long and overlap the first pc and then it goes another 8" past. Then cut a pc 24" long and overlap both those pcs of tape. Now I have a 3 layer thickness at the corner, a 2 layer thickness at 16" and a 1 layer thickness at 24" and a zero layer thickness at the end of the run corner.
> 
> Now you keep the fence set at the original width of the back and run the panel through. It will cut off more at the thick end and nothing at the end with no tape. Then you remove the tape and spin the board around 180 degrees. Move the fence in about 1/32" and cut the panel once again.
> 
> Now you check for square again. If you did your calculations correct then it's square. If not you just put the tape on again and repeat. When you achieve squareness you set the fence to the correct size and finish the cut off.
> 
> Much easier if it comes out square the first time. And I will not be happy at 1/32" out of square so this is why I came up with this method. I guess that makes me the Old Schooler.


You should really get a track saw


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## Xtrememtnbiker

J L said:


> You should really get a track saw



He has one...


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## tjbnwi

Leo G said:


> Sometimes when cutting larger panels it's tough to get them exactly square, for example...backs for cabinets.
> 
> So usually I'll cut the panels to height and cut the width wider then I need. I'll check corner to corner measurements to see if they are equal. If they are, then I cut it to size. If it's off then I'll put tape on the opposite corner of the longer measurement.
> 
> Depending on how far off it is determines how thick I make the tape. And since most backs are longer then my fence I have to make the tape tapered.
> 
> I'll cut a pc of tape 8" long and put it on the correct corner. Then make a pc 16" long and overlap the first pc and then it goes another 8" past. Then cut a pc 24" long and overlap both those pcs of tape. Now I have a 3 layer thickness at the corner, a 2 layer thickness at 16" and a 1 layer thickness at 24" and a zero layer thickness at the end of the run corner.
> 
> Now you keep the fence set at the original width of the back and run the panel through. It will cut off more at the thick end and nothing at the end with no tape. Then you remove the tape and spin the board around 180 degrees. Move the fence in about 1/32" and cut the panel once again.
> 
> Now you check for square again. If you did your calculations correct then it's square. If not you just put the tape on again and repeat. When you achieve squareness you set the fence to the correct size and finish the cut off.
> 
> Much easier if it comes out square the first time. And I will not be happy at 1/32" out of square so this is why I came up with this method. I guess that makes me the Old Schooler.


Took me longer to read this than it would for me to cut the panel......

Tom


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## Leo G

tjbnwi said:


> Took me longer to read this than it would for me to cut the panel......
> 
> Tom


But is the panel square :whistling


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## Leo G

J L said:


> You should really get a track saw





Xtrememtnbiker said:


> He has one...


And I also have a 3-4-5 four foot square that I made. usually it gives me panels that are within a 64th inch of square. But I only use that on panels that are difficult or impossible to do on my tablesaw. The tracksaw is a great thing, but it is slow compared to using the tablesaw. I only use it when necessary.

I had a batch of plywood that came in with curved sides. Had to cut each and everyone of them straight with the tracksaw. That really slowed things down, and the frustration level was high compared to just picking up the plywood, setting the fence and pushing it through.

Plus this is for fixing an out of square panel, not for making it square in the first place. Although you will lose some size if you cut it to the proper size 1st. But if you do it right it should be less than a 16th, which will usually work with backs.


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## tjbnwi

I can do it faster with a track saw, I know you're set up to do it/certain things faster on a table saw. 

There is no panel that is difficult or impossible with a track saw. 

No matter how out of square it can be squared with a track saw.

I straight line one edge on every sheet of plywood I use for cabinets.

Tom


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## Leo G

Unless you have a setup that is there all the time, the tablesaw is faster. I know Kent had a setup for his tracksaw. Just drop the plywood on the panel and put the guide up against some stops that were already squared. That might be faster. Plus, on average, the tablesaw gives a better cut then the tracksaw.

And unless you have some sort of squaring setup you can't just measure the plywood and assume it comes in square, cause it doesn't.


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## tjbnwi

Leo G said:


> Unless you have a setup that is there all the time, the tablesaw is faster. I know Kent had a setup for his tracksaw. Just drop the plywood on the panel and put the guide up against some stops that were already squared. That might be faster. Plus, on average, the tablesaw gives a better cut then the tracksaw.
> 
> And unless you have some sort of squaring setup you can't just measure the plywood and assume it comes in square, cause it doesn't.


I do. I also have jigs to cut/square every common size panel and face frame rip. Yep, I rip all my face frame and door parts with a track saw.

My MFT set up to cross cut, is 0.000" out of square in 24". 

I don't agree on the cut quality, entry and exit areas on table saws normally have some blade bark, doesn't happen with a track saw. Cross cuts with a track saw the veneers are supported on both sides, never a fray with a sharp blade. To cut melamine, set the track saw to plunge 0.5-1mm deep into the material, set the saw at the wrong end of the track, plunge then pull the saw backwards on the track, set the saw to proper depth plunge and push forward to finish the cut, you will not get chip out on the melamine.

I know everyone is set up differently, for me I'd rather push a 5 pound saw than a 70-90 pound sheet.

Tom


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## mattsk8

Tinstaafl said:


> Nope. You need to adjust the hinge assembly as a whole.
> 
> There's no way you're going to bend the knuckles evenly, so they're not going to be perfectly aligned. You just created a future squeak.


I like squeaky doors in old houses. You need to work on the sales technique


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## ubcguy89

gbruzze1 said:


> And to tighten the reveal, pop the pin out of the lower 2 knuckles of the hinge. Take a small crescent wrench, and bend the jamb side knuckles towards the door. Drive pin back in place. Done.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Or just take the screw it of the hinge into the jamb and shim the hinge with compressed cardboard


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## Texas Wax

tjbnwi said:


> I do. I also have jigs to cut/square every common size panel and face frame rip. Yep, I rip all my face frame and door parts with a track saw.


Seems like extra gyrations to me, especially if you have more than a couple hundred linear feet to rip

I don't agree on the cut quality, entry and exit areas on table saws normally have some blade bark, doesn't happen with a track saw. 

That's operator error or equipment/support needing improvement.

Cross cuts with a track saw the veneers are supported on both sides, never a fray with a sharp blade. To cut melamine, set the track saw to plunge 0.5-1mm deep into the material, set the saw at the wrong end of the track, plunge then pull the saw backwards on the track, set the saw to proper depth plunge and push forward to finish the cut, you will not get chip out on the melamine.

Proper blades and parralell blade-fence solve all those problems. 

I know everyone is set up differently, for me I'd rather push a 5 pound saw than a 70-90 pound sheet.

In feed out feed tables and saw bed that are waxed solve that problem, along with the beginning and end bobbles. Wax is your friend, even if TexasWax ain't :laughing:
---That's an Old trick learned from an 70 year old cabinet maker. Trust me he did the least lifting moving pushing possible, like all 130 lbs of him. Dude was a fluid machine when he cut. Even retired to a retirement village place that had regular, assisted, full nursing capabilities, AND a full blown wood working shop:thumbsup: 


Tracksaws are great, don't get me wrong. Reasonable substitute for a more dedicated cabinet shop set up. Awesome for field work. Me I just can't see cutting 10 melamine cabinets from whole sheets being more productive with a track saw than a table saw. The thought of using a track saw like that - makes me want to jump on a dull 60 tooth rip blade on the table saw. But that's a reflection on me not y'all.


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## 91782

ubcguy89 said:


> Or just take the screw it of the hinge into the jamb and shim the hinge with compressed cardboard


Did you think I was asking you for a bunch of your business cards to help promote you?

Silly boy.


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## dsconstructs

ubcguy89 said:


> Or just take the screw it of the hinge into the jamb and shim the hinge with compressed cardboard


Carry an old deck of playing cards in your truck.


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## Texas Wax

dsconstructs said:


> Carry an old deck of playing cards in your truck.


Hardpack/Box when buying smokes :thumbsup:

you know   But don't tell anybody you smoke,


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## antonioooooooo

If you sit on the toilet backwards, the tank works great as a table.


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## jb4211

antonioooooooo said:


> If you sit on the toilet backwards, the tank works great as a table.


Whatever I need a table for - can wait.


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## mgb

I was taught in school to "kick" hinges. Everytime someone mentions bending hinges I cringe a bit.

1/4" strip of cardboard behind hinge nearest stop brings the door tighter to the jamb. Strip towards barrel pushes the door away from the jamb.

Only good for small adjustments otherwise you can make the door hinge bound.


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## ubcguy89

mgb said:


> I was taught in school to "kick" hinges. Everytime someone mentions bending hinges I cringe a bit.
> 
> 1/4" strip of cardboard behind hinge nearest stop brings the door tighter to the jamb. Strip towards barrel pushes the door away from the jamb.
> 
> Only good for small adjustments otherwise you can make the door hinge bound.


That's the only kind of adjustment you should be making when swinging doors. Cause we all know that everyone sets their jambs plumb and level!


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## ubcguy89

dsconstructs said:


> Carry an old deck of playing cards in your truck.


The strip from treat away bead works great, and for hollow metal jambs I like to cut the stupid business card refrigerator magnets up they stick right to the hinge plate


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## Unger.const

ubcguy89 said:


> The strip from treat away bead works great, and for hollow metal jambs I like to cut the stupid business card refrigerator magnets up they stick right to the hinge plate


Treat away? Is this like some local biz? 

So any silly fridge magnet advertising thingy as a shim?......I'll have to try that one


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## antonioooooooo

Think he means tear away bead

Also, another thing I've learned is that, if you go to bed with an itchy bum, you wake up with stinky fingers.


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## J L

antonioooooooo said:


> Also, another thing I've learned is that, if you go to bed with an itchy bum, you wake up with stinky fingers.



Why would you go to bed with a bum?


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## JIMBETHYNAME

https://youtu.be/JnaDklxgnGoTwo things I learned from old school framers when I first started(way back in the 80s). 
1) NEVER SNAP A LINE TO RIP DOWN DIMENSoNAL LUMBER! Just make your mark and use your finger to run along the side of the lumber, holding the skil saw steady with your left hand. If you snap a line you can end up with,IE 3" on ends and 2 1/2 in middle if crowned.
2) when cross cutting lumber , make your mark and square the base with the opposite side of the lumber , no need to draw square line


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## JIMBETHYNAME

check out the link above, dudes amazing


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## aptpupil

JIMBETHYNAME said:


> check out the link above, dudes amazing


The best. I could watch Haun frame all day.


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## mrcharles

antonioooooooo said:


> If you sit on the toilet backwards, the tank works great as a table.


Yeah, but you have to take your pants all the way off.


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## avenge

antonioooooooo said:


> Think he means tear away bead
> 
> Also, another thing I've learned is that, if you go to bed with an itchy bum, you wake up with stinky fingers.


I've woken up with sticky fingers but I was the only one in my bed.


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## madmax718

JIMBETHYNAME said:


> https://youtu.be/JnaDklxgnGoTwo things I learned from old school framers when I first started(way back in the 80s).
> 1) NEVER SNAP A LINE TO RIP DOWN DIMENSoNAL LUMBER! Just make your mark and use your finger to run along the side of the lumber, holding the skil saw steady with your left hand. If you snap a line you can end up with,IE 3" on ends and 2 1/2 in middle if crowned.
> 2) when cross cutting lumber , make your mark and square the base with the opposite side of the lumber , no need to draw square line


Man these guys can frame. They are cheap too.


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## TractHomeTrades

If a door won't latch tight when closed: 
bend out the tongue of the strike plate a little bit until the door closes tight.


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## Framer87

TractHomeTrades said:


> If a door won't latch tight when closed:
> bend out the tongue of the strike plate a little bit until the door closes tight.


Isn't that what its always been there for???


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## jlhaslip

TractHomeTrades said:


> If a door won't latch tight when closed:
> bend out the tongue of the strike plate a little bit until the door closes tight.


I try to remember to bend the tongue out before the strike plate gets installed, then if required, you can just tap them in to allow the door to catch properly. 
"Back in the day", they were not all built with the hole in them that allows you to adjust them without removing the strike plate, so got in the habit.


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## thehockeydman

Certainly not the _best_ trick I've learned from and old school guy but...

When working in winter, if you need to brush debris/dust/snow off something with your hand, use the back of your fingers to sweep it off (palm up).

Makes your gloves last twice as long.

I guess those of you who always wear gloves can use this year round.


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## dmcarnes

Learned a few tricks a few weeks back:

When borrowing another guy's framing nailer, ask him if it's broken and fires without a trigger pull if loaded while connecting the air hose.

When connecting air to a nailer, don't just point at the ground/woods, make sure that no one's walking around the corner near that ground/woods.

It's never too early in the morning for safety glasses when framing a deck.

And, most important of all:

When you get shot and have a nail stuck in your cheek, take a picture before pulling it out, because that picture would've been awesome!


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## kiteman

dmcarnes said:


> Learned a few tricks a few weeks back:
> 
> 
> 
> When borrowing another guy's framing nailer, ask him if it's broken and fires without a trigger pull if loaded while connecting the air hose.
> 
> 
> 
> When connecting air to a nailer, don't just point at the ground/woods, make sure that no one's walking around the corner near that ground/woods.
> 
> 
> 
> It's never too early in the morning for safety glasses when framing a deck.
> 
> 
> 
> And, most important of all:
> 
> 
> 
> When you get shot and have a nail stuck in your cheek, take a picture before pulling it out, because that picture would've been awesome!



Good to know!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hdavis

dmcarnes said:


> Learned a few tricks a few weeks back:
> 
> When borrowing another guy's framing nailer, ask him if it's broken and fires without a trigger pull if loaded while connecting the air hose.
> 
> When connecting air to a nailer, don't just point at the ground/woods, make sure that no one's walking around the corner near that ground/woods.
> 
> It's never too early in the morning for safety glasses when framing a deck.
> 
> And, most important of all:
> 
> When you get shot and have a nail stuck in your cheek, take a picture before pulling it out, because that picture would've been awesome!


Ouch!


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## Obi Wan Cannoli

This might seem obvious to you all, but I always had a problem with reattaching doors after spraying them with paint. A lot of times I'd strip the jam holes with my screws (soft/cheap wood), so I started packing a box of tooth picks in my car. Jam a few in the screw hole, and the new screw will wedge itself and the hinge in place.

So obvious, and it never occurred to me until my boss showed me how its done.


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## fjn

Jaws said:


> To me old school just means old school values.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk




Now that is a mouthful of truth ! :thumbsup:


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## Dirtywhiteboy

Do old schoolers text at work or just Millennials:blink:


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## asevereid

I'm beginning to consider myself an "old millennial schooler"... Self proclaimed, of course. 
Patent pending

Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk


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## Youngin'

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Do old schoolers text at work or just Millennials:blink:


You should see my girlfriend's parents. Both in their sixties, can't stay off their phones. :laughing:


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## cleatmr

Stilla said:


> How old do you need to be to be considered old school?
> 
> Is it before nail guns?
> Is it before laser levels?
> Is it before smart phones?
> 
> The best trick I ever learned from an old timer was to learn how to use new tools.




I consider it that, if there is a power cut or power source on the job. You can still continue working with hand tools (handsaws and planes etc) to a high standard and speed. To earn a wage. Rather than go home.

I have come across youngsters who profess to be the best, with power tools. Give them hand tools and some turn into quivering wrecks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Leo G

I have an inverter. I'll keep working with power tools.


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## shanewreckd

cleatmr said:


> I consider it that, if there is a power cut or power source on the job. You can still continue working with hand tools (handsaws and planes etc) to a high standard and speed. To earn a wage. Rather than go home.
> 
> I have come across youngsters who profess to be the best, with power tools. Give them hand tools and some turn into quivering wrecks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is why I have cordless tools :laughing: I can even plug my phone in and keep it charged for all my millennial texting :no:

P.S.: I *AM* the best :whistling


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## Tinstaafl

I just beat stuff with a rock until it splinters into a pleasing shape. Sometimes it takes two rocks.


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## asevereid

Tinstaafl said:


> ... Sometimes it takes TWO rocks.


Amateur


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## Stilla

An old timer told me to find a bag of steam in the basement. I was 16, working at a mom's and pops hardware store. When I came out of the basement and said I couldn't find any bags of steam, the long time customer of the store asked me if I accept black's money when he cashed out.

The owners of the store where hysterical, I was 16 and was worried I did something wrong. 

Years later it puts a smile on my face.

What i learned was that people are naive. People would come into the store looking for tools for their spouses. I would ask if they were left or right handed. If they were not sure I would sell them the most expensive tool they were looking for as I claimed it was ambidextrous. It works for left and right handed people.


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## MeanWeen

Always pay attention to the lock sets you are installing. A long time ago we were completing an office building and my grandpa had decided to come in and help with door hardware on the 3rd floor, the rest of the crew cleaning up the first. Along came lunch and everyone headed off to the trailer for lunch, Grandpa never showed. Didn’t think much of it, till we had an afternoon break around 2 and he still didn’t show up.

I got a little concerned feeling like a dick for not checking on him earlier I headed up to the third floor to figure out what the hell he was doing. He was nowhere to be seen but I heard something in the small storage closet. Headed over there and opened the door. Grandpa didn’t say a word, walked out of the closet right by me and out the front door. Hopped in his truck and drove home. He had put the storage lockset on backwards and closed the door with him inside to check fit, locking himself in the closet from around 9 Til 2. Was one of the last times he put his pouch on. Never said a word about it but we had a good laugh. Anyways from that day I always make sure the lockset is the proper way!


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## TheGrizz

MeanWeen said:


> Always pay attention to the lock sets you are installing. A long time ago we were completing an office building and my grandpa had decided to come in and help with door hardware on the 3rd floor, the rest of the crew cleaning up the first. Along came lunch and everyone headed off to the trailer for lunch, Grandpa never showed. Didn’t think much of it, till we had an afternoon break around 2 and he still didn’t show up.
> 
> 
> 
> I got a little concerned feeling like a dick for not checking on him earlier I headed up to the third floor to figure out what the hell he was doing. He was nowhere to be seen but I heard something in the small storage closet. Headed over there and opened the door. Grandpa didn’t say a word, walked out of the closet right by me and out the front door. Hopped in his truck and drove home. He had put the storage lockset on backwards and closed the door with him inside to check fit, locking himself in the closet from around 9 Til 2. Was one of the last times he put his pouch on. Never said a word about it but we had a good laugh. Anyways from that day I always make sure the lockset is the proper way!




Never done that, but I have walked off with a set of keys before, so now one of the first things I do on a keyed lock set of any kind is stick the keys in the cylinder.


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