# Am I a prick?



## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

So as some of you know I was let go from my former employer about 9 months ago for taking on side work. Since then I have started my own company (licensed insured etc..). 
I have been a one man show up until recently I took on a job that I needed a helper for, called one of my old coworkers, a good friend. He told me he was busy but my former boss had just laid off a laborer, and gave me his #. I hired the guy, seems to be good help (shows up on time, willing to work). My former employer is now upset told his whole crew that associating with me is grounds for dismissal. Am I in the wrong? The guy was laid off, I wasn't trying to poach his workers, just the way it worked out.


----------



## EXO (Apr 13, 2014)

No. I wouldn't let it bother you.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Did u actually hire the guy or just borrow him?


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Sounds like your ex boss is scared of his own shadow.


----------



## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

Warren said:


> Did u actually hire the guy or just borrow him?



I had a frank discussion with him and he agreed to commit to work for me, so I fired up workers comp and all the other BS and put him on the payroll.


----------



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

He canned you for taking side work? 

Now he's pissed because you hired his cast off?

Phuck him.:thumbsup:
(he apparently has a problem with you eating more than Ramen and maybe taking a trip to Costa Rica once a while)


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

So initially you borrowed him. Bet his unemployment gets denied.


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

you might be a prick for other unknown reasons :laughing:
but as far as hiring an unemployed man that needs job, nothing wrong with that.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

If I started a thread "Am I a prick?" I wonder how quickly it would overload and shut down the server.


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> If I started a thread "Am I a prick?" how quickly it would overload and shut down the server.


but you might have more experience being a prick. :laughing:
I know I do! :laughing:


----------



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> If I started a thread "Am I a prick?" how quickly it would overload and shut down the server.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

That may have been the funniest thing I have ever heard on CT.

Nice!!!!


----------



## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

RiverBG...don't lose a minute's sleep over this one.


----------



## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

I had the same opinion that you all have. Just thought I would ask the opinion of my peers. I've been saying **** him (old boss) for a while, just in the privacy of my own home.


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Part or working with people is to find the good ones and use them. It's a form of networking.

If the former boss got rid of you, and laid off your new guy then it's on him. I wouldn't give a flying F... what he thinks. Why do you?

And....



TNTSERVICES said:


> If I started a thread "Am I a prick?" I wonder how quickly it would overload and shut down the server.


:laughing:

I've said this many times before, sometimes in the staff section too. If any of you met Rob personally you would have NO friggin idea you were talking to the same guy as you see here at CT.

He's one of the most laid back, funny guys I've ever met and is a lot of fun to work with.

Digressing.


----------



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> :laughing:
> 
> I've said this many times before, sometimes in the staff section too. If any of you met Rob personally you would have NO friggin idea you were talking to the same guy as you see here at CT.
> 
> ...



this just makes us start to wonder about you...:whistling


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I think Ron must owe Rob money.


----------



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i would hope it's just money..:shifty:


----------



## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

RiverBG said:


> My former employer is now upset told his whole crew that associating with me is grounds for dismissal. Am I in the wrong? The guy was laid off, I wasn't trying to poach his workers, just the way it worked out.


look on the bright side now if you want one of his best guys just spread the rumor that you were having lunch together.


----------



## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

So what else do you talk about in the "staff" section??

We had a similar situation when my partner and I left one company and started our own. The owner was very sour towards us. Sounds like your ex-boss is feeling a little threatened by you....and that means you are true competition.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> So what else do you talk about in the "staff" section


Me and Griz swap BBQ recipes and talk about what we ate that day :laughing::thumbup:


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Warren said:


> I think Ron must owe Rob money.


It would have to be a lot of money.


----------



## spazman (Feb 16, 2012)

You're not a prick. Your ex boss is.


----------



## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

I say phvck the a-hole. Threatening his guys because you hired someone he laid off?? What an insecure dickhead.


overanalyze said:


> that means you are true competition.


And he's worried because you're going to take work from him and his profit just went down. He might actually have to put his tool belt back on to pay for his new boat.


----------



## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

General consensus "he's the prick" 
Time for another beer :laughing:


----------



## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

You need to be firing up pay role and work comp when he starts not when he starts full time. If he wasn't initially on payroll how did he get paid? I don't know why it bothers you that your old boss doesn't like what you are up to. I try to get under my old bosses skin every day. I sometimes think about how sad it will be when he retires or dies. Who will I enjoy pissing off at that point. I find some good rivalry to be extremely motivating.


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

RiverBG said:


> General consensus "he's the prick"
> Time for another beer :laughing:


I wonder if your boss is posting on a different forum, _*"I just fired one of my employees for being a prick..." *_ :laughing:


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Jaws said:


> Me and Griz swap BBQ recipes and talk about what we ate that day :laughing::thumbup:


And we also check what the other mods are wearing every day. It would be SOOOOOOOO embarrassing to show up in the staff section wearing the same outfit. OMG>


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Thank god none of you guys have shown up with a mauve bathrobe.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Thank god none of you guys have shown up with a mauve bathrobe.


:laughing:


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Thank god none of you guys have shown up with a mauve bathrobe.


Or no bathrobe at all...


----------



## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

m1911 said:


> Or no bathrobe at all...



I like to party....


----------



## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

RiverBG:

The marketplace has vindicated your decision to leave your boss. The marketplace has allowed you to hire his old help. 

His problem is that no one can argue with the marketplace. The more successful you are and the more employees of his that come to work for you, the more pi$$ed off he will get. Why? You're doing it better than he is, as the marketplace is saying.


----------



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

This thread got me thinking about my "Am I about to be a serious prick?"
question.

Friend has a decent sized cab shop/remodel business.

Stole his most experienced cab maker (she's my GF, so I didn't feel bad about that one:whistling)

But.....now a couple of his other guys are making overtures. 
I could really use the help. 
I know what they are capable of, and their work history (so I really want them to jump ship:sad:.....one specifically).
They are bemoaning the fact that quality has taken a nosedive, that things aren't run efficient and organized....etc. (but I see through the bitching and recognize why it is tough to be "perfect" in every employee's estimation)

The boss is a great guy (which is actually his biggest problem in terms of running his show).
Straight business wise, I have no problem with this...but I really like the guy and know that it will set him back (he trained the one cab guy for 8 years).

I already have a twinge of guilt just allowing them to entertain the idea that they have a soft place to land if they bail on him.

Sucks.

I can't do it.....right?

If we don't have certain principles by which we protect each others right to occasionally be a less than perfect boss......what are we left with? Anarchy?


----------



## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Tough call. If he's a friend, it seems it might warrant a visit with him to discuss your dilemma. What may happen after is he lets the guys go anyway, but he remains friends with you...great outcome. 

He may look inward and try to figure out what he's doing wrong....great outcome.

In most cases, there is another side to a coin and you may learn the other side about these employees who are unhappy. You may end up not wanting them. 

No guts, no glory.

I know that mechanics, body shop and parts people in the auto dealerships go between dealerships all the time. The service managers and owners all seem to let it roll off their backs, but we are talking about quite a few employees.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> This thread got me thinking about my "Am I about to be a serious prick?"
> question.
> 
> Friend has a decent sized cab shop/remodel business.
> ...


So if you put an ad on CL and the guy responded, you would tell him no????? Wouldn't that be silly.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> This thread got me thinking about my "Am I about to be a serious prick?"
> question.
> 
> Friend has a decent sized cab shop/remodel business.
> ...


I am going to go with Robie on this... he's your friend first... you don't have to name names, but you can bring it to his attention...

That is, if you want to keep him as a friend... friendship is loyalty... money is not... she sleeps around all over the place and doesn't matter to her who she infects...

.


----------



## EXO (Apr 13, 2014)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> This thread got me thinking about my "Am I about to be a serious prick?"
> question.
> 
> Friend has a decent sized cab shop/remodel business.
> ...


IMO if he is a true friend, and not just a "business" friend or acquaintance...I wouldn't talk to any of his guys (about work) unless they quit on their own first and then came to talk after that.

Sticking to your principles will make you happier in the long term vs hiring some guys that might leave for the next bigger paycheck at any time.

Unless you're really hurting for the help...at the end of the day taking care of yourself and your family comes first too


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> This thread got me thinking .....


As a business and ethical matter, you have no obligation in your case other than to do what's right for your business. If you can offer a better wage and better life chances to his current employees, well, don't they deserve that? But...

If you care more about the friendship or some other effect in your community, then you should let them be.

I would not go and talk to him first. I have done that once and seen it a few other times, and each time it was taken exactly the opposite of how it was intended. "Why are you trying to undermine my business and alienate my employees? Coming here and talking with me is some sort of devious declaration of war." It was a mistake, and I regretted having done it. It also messes up the situation in that shop - the owner is now paranoid about who's thinking about leaving, and the employees (correctly) will see it as disrespectful of their free agency and ability to make the best decisions for themselves.

A middle ground is to talk to any employee you're thinking of hiring, and ask him (or her) if he has talked to the business owner about why he wants to leave. Has he asked for a raise? Has he talked to the owner about frustrations with how jobs are managed or organized? If not, why not? These are legitimate questions about the maturity and good judgment about that prospective employee. Now, give him a job offer, but tell him it's contingent on him going and talking to the business owner before he accepts it.

After that happens, you will have one of two possible conversations with the other guy. In the first case, he calls you up, all ticked off about you stealing his guy. Having a clean conscience, you can tell him that the employee came to you, and you asked him to talk to the owner before accepting your offer. Maybe he works something out and keeps the employee, maybe not. Maybe it lasts, probably not - it's not easy to un-ring the I-don't-like-working-here-any-more bell.

In the second case, the employee calls you up and tells you that he talked with the owner, and either he's staying, or leaving to join you. With the same clean conscience, you call up the other owner and talk about it: "I want to talk with you about Julio..."

In all cases, it will affect your friendship with the other guy. Either he'll resent you for taking his employees, or you'll resent him for being your friend and thereby preventing you from taking his employees.

Edit: In the end, the other business owner is more likely to judge the employee harshly than to judge you. The owner understands your point of view perfectly, because he lives it. However, the employee/employer relationship in very small businesses is often so messed up (in the minds of owners), so tangled with notions of paternalism and dependency, that the owner may see the employee's actions as betrayal and ingratitude. So, never mind all that above, just hire the guy and don't worry about it.


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> If I started a thread "Am I a prick?" I wonder how quickly it would overload and shut down the server.


interesting way to rack up the "thanks":laughing:


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

olzo55 said:


> interesting way to rack up the "thanks":laughing:


Funny I hadn't gone back and looked at it since yesterday. I about fell out of my chair laughing. 28 "thanks" and counting. What a riot! :laughing:


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Funny I hadn't gone back and looked at it since yesterday. I about fell out of my chair laughing. 28 "thanks" and counting. What a riot! :laughing:


I would have thanked it more if I could. :laughing:


----------



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

EXO said:


> IMO if he is a true friend, and not just a "business" friend or acquaintance...I wouldn't talk to any of his guys (about work) unless they quit on their own first and then came to talk after that.
> 
> Sticking to your principles will make you happier in the long term vs hiring some guys that might leave for the next bigger paycheck at any time.
> 
> Unless you're really hurting for the help...at the end of the day taking care of yourself and your family comes first too


Not a "true" friend......more of a mostly business acquaintance and somewhat friend. (never been to my home, never had dinner with him and his wife, only socialize at his company Xmas party...other spare social events)

Just think he is a really nice guy......but that is his Achilles heel.

I think it is inevitable. I need the guy, really respect and like him as a person, and need a second to hold down the cab shop so I can run the field work. He and J are besties and work great together (he'll keep her in line:whistling).

He is fed up there, and ready to jump ship. 
It'll happen...in it's own time.

Thanks for the input.

I feel better now. (hugs)


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Funny I hadn't gone back and looked at it since yesterday. I about fell out of my chair laughing. 28 "thanks" and counting. What a riot! :laughing:


There ain't nothing wrong with being a ..... :thumbup:


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

BRG, it's a tough call but that doesn't sound like enough of a friend, to me, that I wouldn't do what is good for my business. I certainly wouldn't go looking to poach his employees but they came to you. Worst case scenario is that they end up at another competitor or starting out on their own if you won't hire them.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

This is why you never lay people off, ever. 

If I was the old boss you would have never heard anything about my sentiment towards the situation. I simply would have responded in a professional manner ie; I would saturate your target neighborhoods with fliers and yard signs offering deals you cant. I would also get my guy back even if it meant paying him more than he was worth.

Business is business.


----------



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

EthanB said:


> BRG, it's a tough call but that doesn't sound like enough of a friend, to me, that I wouldn't do what is good for my business. I certainly wouldn't go looking to poach his employees but they came to you. Worst case scenario is that they end up at another competitor or starting out on their own if you won't hire them.


Not that it worries me that much, but this is small(ish) town South.

Reputation is everything.....and here, word travels fast, makes house calls, and visits every nook and cranny. Makes having a great rep a golden ticket, and a bad one, a death sentence. (One thing I hate about living here.....people will never say anything to your face, but they will slander you behind your back in carefully chosen moments ......with vigor)

Like you said....
As long as I let him come to me, and don't try to persuade him away, I will sleep well.:thumbsup:

That's definitely my play.

(The great thing is.....this guy is steady and thorough, and most of all, seems content to be a Best Supporting Actor winner for a very long time to come:thumbsup


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> This is why you never lay people off, ever.
> 
> If I was the old boss you would have never heard anything about my sentiment towards the situation. I simply would have responded in a professional manner ie; I would saturate your target neighborhoods with fliers and yard signs offering deals you cant. I would also get my guy back even if it meant paying him more than he was worth.
> 
> Business is business.


While i have a contentious attitude myself, if you did that to me id laugh my ass off you were overpaying your help and make fun of you for being the guy who is so confident in his work that he is having to make special deals and mark down his pricing like a rookie :whistling


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I would take a different approach if the opposition was more formidable... :whistling


I have been made fun of before, and will again. Im the kind of guy who would open a business next to yours and sell everything at half price. Write the loss off, and put you out of business. Then rent you a home..


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I get the small town thing, BRG. I'm originally from a town of 500. The thing is, some people will may think badly of you for hiring his guys but that's only if he's complaining about it. Just as many people will think that you probably have a better business and pay better if all his guys go work for you. Most people want to hire the better business.

It's a Catch-22 but, as I said, if they're looking for work, they could end up going out on their own or signing up with another company, then you lose too.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I would take a different approach if the opposition was more formidable... :whistling
> 
> 
> I have been made fun of before, and will again. Im the kind of guy who would open a business next to yours and sell everything at half price. Write the loss off, and put you out of business. Then rent you a home..


I dont know how you can sell for less than a start up :blink: But you know what you are doing in our hypothetical situation :laughing: I would likely be a dick also if the dude was disrespectful, but i wouldnt mess with his livelihood. Doesnt sound like anything disrespectful to me. 

I would try and keep a good business relationship with him if he was any good. Might be beneficial for me, and also i have no reason to wish a good contractor any ill will. 

Im not talking out of my ass. My foreman of more 5 years left in june with two of my carpenters ( his brothers) to start his own gig, mostly subbing but i imagine eventually he will be interested in generaling. I couldnt change his mind and i dont blame him or the hands that went with him. I gave him some saws and hooked him up with a good insurance agent and showed him some pricing methods. I spent an hour on the day after Christmas helping him with some pricing on a frame for a big equestrian barn in Gonzalez of all places :laughing:

I was in a jamb with man power in october with some TI work in outside San Antone and he bailed me out. The next TI i did his guys did almost all the work my crew would of done. He made money, and i saved a lot of expense not sending my crew on a 3.5 hr round trip, plus they were back home making money on my residential. 

Sucks at first but its like a hot girl friend after a break up, there is always a lot of stuff you dont miss when you get a new one in the sack :laughing:


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

IMO, you put someone out of business to gain market share, period. I don't think any other goal is a business decision. You don't even have to undercut or poach his best guys. If you want to be a real prick, you just invite them all to a bar for drinks on you, and make the phone call when they leave. That's the lazy man's way - undercutting is too much work.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I would take a different approach if the opposition was more formidable... :whistling
> 
> 
> I have been made fun of before, and will again. Im the kind of guy who would open a business next to yours and sell everything at half price. Write the loss off, and put you out of business. Then rent you a home..


I totally agree. I am not sure if that makes us proud or arrogant.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Warren said:


> I totally agree. I am not sure if that makes us proud or arrogant.


Probably both. I know my position on this matter is born from both. Im of the mind set that i can replace anyone that works for me. Other than the painters, i can do their job better and more efficient, and i can train someone new to do it too. I am not scared of any of our competitors either, never have been, never will be. 

I got better chit to do than worry about a hand striking out on his own, especially when he can become a valuable resource :thumbsup: certainly not worth my time or energy to try and figure out a way to put him out of business when i should be worried about my clients and projects. 

To each there own though. Lots of different ways to play this game. Thats what makes it fun and makes this place worth hanging out :thumbup:


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

JMO, but good relations are better than bad ones. Bad blood doesn't do much good for you in the long run.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

hdavis said:


> JMO, but good relations are better than bad ones. Bad blood doesn't do much good for you in the long run.


My wife thinks its hilarious i am on this side of the issue, since i notoriously hold grudges for life. I still eye ball a dude i didnt like because of one little quarrel from my freshman year in high school, and i still flip off a contractor who didnt pay me some wages when i was 19. 

In fact i was at a chinese restaurant in town a couple years ago and he came in with his wife and kids and i flipped him off there too (discreetly, it was a family restaurant ) told the cashier to not take a check from him loud enough for him and his family could hear. 

A few years after he didnt pay me he was ahead of me in line at the lumberyard and when he turned around he said how are you doing? I said hey Marvin, you got my money *****? Loud enough EVERYONE heard , including some guys in the parking lot. I threw the last part out because i was hoping hed throw a punch so i could legally put him in the hospital sucking his food out of a straw. Around here most dudes would rather get put in ICU than have another dude call them a ***** in front of a bunch of other dudes. But he didn't take the bait.  Chicken chit :no: 

My wife asked me to forgive him everytime we prayed before supper for a good while, but i wont and i would literally not piss on him if he was on fire in front of me. She let it go finally, she said she cant imagine how i can be the nicest and friendliest guy in the world one second and be the biggest jerk the next. For me i guess it has to do with what they did. Striking up on their own aint worth getting riled up about for me, but cheating me at penny anty cards might be enough to set me off :laughing::thumbup:

Its a lot deeper than a few hundred bucks for me. Could of been one dollar, id still laugh my ass off and flip him off if he had a stroke and was in a wheel chair. :thumbsup:


----------



## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

Jaws said:


> My wife thinks its hilarious i am on this side of the issue, since i notoriously hold grudges for life. I still eye ball a dude i didnt like because of one little quarrel from my freshman year in high school, and i still flip off a contractor who didnt pay me some wages when i was 19.
> 
> In fact i was at a chinese restaurant in town a couple years ago and he came in with his wife and kids and i flipped him off there too (discreetly, it was a family restaurant ) told the cashier to not take a check from him loud enough for him and his family could hear.
> 
> ...



That's awesome  
Love deep/ hate deep


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Ninjaframer said:


> Love deep/ hate deep


:thumbup: Im taking that one :laughing: 

My wife also says hate is a weakness. I tell her every man has to have one :laughing::no: Amazing she hangs around with a heathen like me :thumbsup:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Warren said:


> I totally agree. I am not sure if that makes us proud or arrogant.


Its not arrogance or pride. Its business. 

Granted every situation is different but I always try to interpret these sitiations as they would apply to me. 

My guys are valuable. They are the most valuable asset of my company. If some ass hat didnt deserve to be on my crew and then came behind my back and scalped another employee I wouldnt get my feelings hurt at all. I would however react appropriately, which would add a definitive air of complication for a start up.

John, I can certainly do jobs cheaper than a start up. I could bid below cost and write it off. Maybe his wife works at a deli with an empty store front next to it. I could open a deli and sell .05c bagels and operate at a loss funded by corporate investment distributions. **** honestly it probably wouldn't really cost too much after tax breaks for being a loser.

Ofcourse that is extreme and highly unlikely but my point here was that the op was let go, scalped an employee, comes on here and gets stroked for doing the right thing.

Im the nicest guy in the world. I feed and cloth homeless people, donate to habitat, Im paying for a field day for a low income school this year which my kids dont even go to, and I treat everyone around me like a partner in life.

If someone came to me and needed help Id help them. To get fired by me you would really have to screw up because to get hired by me you really have to be impressive. If someone I fired came to my table and took food off it Id go out of my way to trip them on the way out the door. 

If one of my guys wanted to go out on their own, Id help them until they didnt need it, just like you John.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I never thought you wouldn't help your guys, hoss. Was just pointing out this situation in my post wasnt a hypothetical for me. 

I posted a thread a couple years ago asking about bidding against an ex boss, i had a
some mixed feelings as he had been a mentor. I am a loyal guy. But if i dint like an ex boss? I could care less. Either way, the ex boss laid a dude off and he gave him a job. We dont own our hands. They have to eat. His ex boss is weak imo, for throwing a tantrum. 

Your a good businessman and your successful in your methods, Matt. Our thoughts on the doing anything for a below break even for any reason are so far apart its not worth discussing :laughing:

I think you were born to be a Tycoon type :thumbup: Im just not theat dude :no: A loss leader is not even in my frame of reference or thoughts :laughing:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I do agree that being laid off made him more attainable.


----------

