# What is it with homeowners?



## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I bid to stain a house yesterday. It had been done 4 years ago and looked like hell. I could rub the stain off with my hand. He said he wanted it done the right way this time. I gave my price and he said I was double the price of the other 2 guys. He was going with the lowest bidder.SO why is it that they will continue to go with the lowest bid even after being burned? I don't get it. 

The truth is everyones materials cost is fairly close. Within a few hundred dollars. Labor is the same. I'm speaking about companies in the same town. So when I cut my price in half it is my cost for labor and materials. So how is the other guy making money? I really don't think he's that much faster or that he got his materials that much cheaper than I. The other guy is going to cut corners, apply one coat and when it looks like shiz he will hit up the HO for more money.

Why can't a HO realize this? I tried to explain the points where my quote was (hopefully) different. Do they really not grasp that if they would spend a little now they would save a ton more later? How do you deal with this? OK I'm done.


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## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

Sometimes you will never get around homeowners only wanting the lowest price even if they state they want it done correctly.

You may not know all the facts. The homeowner may plan to sell soon or not have enough money in their budget. I try and find as many of these facts out before providing an estimate.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Don't sweat it. I'm a business owner, but I'm also a homeowner. When I purchase something, guess what, I look at the price. If one's price is double what 2 other bids are I would be suspect, unless I knew the guy who was doing the bid. 

When my car needs repair, or oil change I take it to a local garage, not the dealership. Locals are cheaper, and don't have the OH of the dealership. Both shops are busy, both are capable of the repair, but each has a different customer base. Some folks are doing good to afford the neighbor fixing it in his front yard.

As consumers, we all want the best, but are held back by what we can afford. As salesmen, when need to find out what that amount is, and if we can't deliver a product that meets our standards for that price, just move on to the next client.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

If you have a potential customer whose only criteria is low price, you need to ask if this is the type of customer you want to work for.

If not, don't spend too much time on them, don't worry, and move on to greener pastures.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

summithomeinc said:


> I bid to stain a house yesterday. It had been done 4 years ago and looked like hell. I could rub the stain off with my hand. He said he wanted it done the right way this time. I gave my price and he said I was double the price of the other 2 guys. He was going with the lowest bidder.SO why is it that they will continue to go with the lowest bid even after being burned? I don't get it.
> 
> The truth is everyones materials cost is fairly close. Within a few hundred dollars. Labor is the same. I'm speaking about companies in the same town. So when I cut my price in half it is my cost for labor and materials. So how is the other guy making money? I really don't think he's that much faster or that he got his materials that much cheaper than I. The other guy is going to cut corners, apply one coat and when it looks like shiz he will hit up the HO for more money.
> 
> Why can't a HO realize this? I tried to explain the points where my quote was (hopefully) different. Do they really not grasp that if they would spend a little now they would save a ton more later? How do you deal with this? OK I'm done.


Some people never learn. :no: 
Nature of the beast I guess.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

The other company is NOT making money they just dont know it yet.


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

Summit: "The truth is everyones materials cost is fairly close"

The truth is, that's so not true.

Find clients who want the highest quality work and who not only expect to pay for it, but want to pay for it.

You will never convince the masses who have been conditioned by all the BS marketing that quality can be had for less money. It can't be done in most instances, it's a basic law of economics. 

Just the other day I'm picking up 4 boxes of SS matching deck head screws and some Schmuck next to me at the counter hears the price. He leans over telling me in a know it all tone, "don't use those, use your finish nail gun" I tell him you keep doing it that way.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

ranteso said:


> Just the other day I'm picking up 4 boxes of SS matching deck head screws and some Schmuck next to me at the counter hears the price. He leans over telling me in a know it all tone, "don't use those, use your finish nail gun" I tell him you keep doing it that way.


Funny you said that. I heard in the lumber yard a well known builder freaked at the cost SS screws. He went ahead and used Gav. trim nails for his gun. i always wondered how that turned out.:laughing:


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

In the words of the great Flo. "Happens all the time". :laughing:

What they were really saying is that they want you to do a really good and proper job for the same low price. I am working my way away from these types of customers. 

I don't mind doing a low cost job for folks, but it will be a low cost job. It will still last and be a quality job, but it will just have less bells and whistles. I usually end up doing a bit more in order to cover my rear.

The guys who think a low cost job is an excuse to cut corners and do a fly by night job with a rearview mirror warranty should be ashamed. They give all of us a bad name.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

I sympathize with the original poster.

talked with a "prospect" this week.

potential job is just either side of $10,000 depending on a couple material choices

long conversation-and then the prospect asks me" a couple years ago I had 2 seperate contractors price this for me and both prices were around $2400-how can your price be so much more money?"

"simple" I replied-" the other contractors have NO intention of doing it for $2400-they are going to "start" and then come back to you and say "we need another $3,000-and then later we need another $5000"

customer says- well we would have a contract-so they can't do that!!!!!

I explained to her that the materials alone cost more than $2400 and that 2 of us are going to be there about 6-7 days so there is zero chance it can be done for $2400

she still didn't believe me because she wants to believe it can be done for $2400-----people believe what they want to believe-regaurdless of the evidence.
stephen


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

I can't compete with hacks:thumbsup:


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## onthelevel (Apr 6, 2011)

Summit:
You already know tons of HO's are idiots. Take a deep breath and get away from that fool. Some people never learn. 

I think when people say lowest bid all of us should start going: . Lowest bid? Don't call me again. And run away.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Just tell 'em you'll do the job for 10% below the low bidder...with appropriate change orders as needed.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

ranteso said:


> Summit: "The truth is everyones materials cost is fairly close"
> 
> The truth is, that's so not true.
> 
> ...


Trust me, I really do try to get the higher end customers. There are only so many of them though. So the rest of the time I have to slum it and try to get work from average homeowners.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

onthelevel said:


> Summit:
> You already know tons of HO's are idiots. Take a deep breath and get away from that fool. Some people never learn.
> 
> I think when people say lowest bid all of us should start going: . Lowest bid? Don't call me again. And run away.


Yeah I do know. I'm still amazed at the people that will treat there biggest investment so badly though. Oh well. It really is part of it. Good thing I get to come on CT and talk sh** about it.:laughing:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> Just tell 'em you'll do the job for 10% below the low bidder...with appropriate change orders as needed.


Next time I'll tell them I have to run it by my partner, then call you and you can negotiate:no::laughing:


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

Polish up on your sales skills. I outsell low bidders constantly, really not too hard and it's part of doing business. Low bidders have been around since I started in business in 1978 and probably way before that. If you think there is no chance you can close a deal, seize that opportunity to try new sales techniques.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

This is the new norm, get used to it.

Everyone is looking for the cheapest way to purchase a product or perform a task. 

This problem is not unique to the contracting business, yet it is the one business that seems to have the greatest varaiation in cost. 

A couple things: Size up the potential customer, know when to walk away, don't let it bug you that someone got the job and is doing it for 20% to 40% less than you. This is the hardest thing for me to do, but you gotta let it go.

As far as how these guys are making it, it's beyond me. I think my self worth is around 60k a year. Am I wrong to want to make that much a year? Some people think their self worth is ok at 15k or 20k. Some of these guys use cheap labor, billy bob or jose will work for 8 or 10 bucks an hr, I don't think that's ok. I think a skilled person should get 25-35 hr. 

My favorite is materials. Material costs are not always equal, alot of people don't even know how to do a take off properely and end up begging for money later or taking it in the shorts. Your smart enough to know that you need 6 sheets of drywall and two boxes of mud. Billy bob thinks he can do it with 4 sheets (he'll stretch them) and one box of mud. He tells the customer that: "I didn't relize you wanted to replace that part so I didn't include it in the estimate."

Recently I did a basic ceramic tile surround. People coulda got someone else to do it a heck of alot cheeper, but I think I did a darn good job and I'll warrenty it! 

For materials I had the backer board choice of:

1) 1/2 drywall $10.00 (don't laugh people will do this)

2) 1/2 aqua/green board $15.00

3) 1/2 dense sheild $28.00

I charged for it and wanted to use it because it's a higher quality material, but it was almost 3x what someone else would use.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

by the way, this year has been a mess

My close rate on proposals is not even at 40%.

Why? Because I'm charging high rates, using well compensated subs, I always use the higher cost materials, and I do what I tell you without a bunch of bs.

It sucks.

I've done alot of deck repairs this summer (go figure) but I will never build a new deck to save my life. Because someone else can do it faster, cheaper, and lower quality than I can. So when I say 4k for a deck and someone else says 2.5k. What are you gonna do?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

fast fred said:


> by the way, this year has been a mess
> 
> My close rate on proposals is not even at 40%.
> 
> Why? Because I'm charging high rates,


Are they "high"? Or are they the rates that sustain a "real" business?


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

I think we all have to be careful about taking every customer's word about bid numbers. 

I've had some try to play that game, and when I ask them if they'd be willing to show me the other estimates so I can be sure we're comparing things accurately all of a sudden they're stumbling around.

I even had one tell me afterwards that he really didn't have any other bids.....he was just trying to see how low I'd go! :no: 

Most of the time though, I find we're spec'ing different materials......or much different scopes of work.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Hence the term..."Buyers are liars". But that's just a small percentage that will do that, and anyone that has been around in this business hads heard it and appropriately responded, many times.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

fast fred said:


> by the way, this year has been a mess
> 
> My close rate on proposals is not even at 40%.
> 
> ...


I'm really not too worried about the other guy doing the work. It's just amazing to me that a homeowner that has been screwed before will continue to go with the lowest bid. 

This year I decided that I don't want to be the lowest paid guy around. I have started charging much more than previous years. I just looked at my quick books and I have done 42% less in sales than last year. My profit is 105% more than last year. 

It really makes me wonder if the homeowner isn't their own worst enemy. I mean how much sympathy can you have for someone when they continue to buy cheap even when they should know better. Then they don't get what they expect. They should expect what they got, because that is what they are willing to pay for.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

I have used this line before " It seems our company is not a good match for your project, thank you and good luck with your project. In years past I might be a little snippy with them and say "oh I though you were looking for a professional remodeling company, sorry for wasting your time"


Its all about where YOU put your focus. I now have clients that dont care the other guy is at 6k when I am 17k for a bathroom, I still get the a-holes who falsely believe they will get the same quality bathroom at 6k that they would at 17k until they realize the materials are 7k! With internet leads they can be hit or miss even when my website clearly states some pricing via cost vs value report on there.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Yep. :thumbsup:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

kevjob said:


> I have used this line before " It seems our company is not a good match for your project, thank you and good luck with your project. In years past I might be a little snippy with them and say "oh I though you were looking for a professional remodeling company, sorry for wasting your time"
> 
> 
> Its all about where YOU put your focus. I now have clients that dont care the other guy is at 6k when I am 17k for a bathroom, I still get the a-holes who falsely believe they will get the same quality bathroom at 6k that they would at 17k until they realize the materials are 7k! With internet leads they can be hit or miss even when my website clearly states some pricing via cost vs value report on there.


So what questions do you ask to be able to say that BEFORE you waste the time meeting with them and working up the proposal?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

No question needs to be asked. 

Make a statement: I charge* X* for an in-home estimate. 

Problem solved.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> No question needs to be asked.
> 
> Make a statement: I charge* X* for an in-home estimate.
> 
> Problem solved.


When your jobs range from 50-250,000 I could see that working. Mine are much less than that. 10,000 is a good sized job for me. an estimate is the only thing I'm willing to tell them is free. Of course they allways pay for it in the end, if I get the job. If not the next guy does. It really does seem more fair to charge for it up front, doesn't it....


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

What does* X* equal?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Ask Leo. :whistling


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> What does* X* equal?


You tell me. You are the one that charges it.:jester:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Tsk...tsk...grasshoppa


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> Tsk...tsk...grasshoppa


Tree Fiddy?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:laughing: Quit it.

*X* = what you need to charge to get rid of_ mos_t of your tire-kickers.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> :laughing: Quit it.
> 
> *X* = what you need to charge to get rid of_ mos_t of your tire-kickers.


So it really is 3.50 :whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

No (du-mass), it's $1.00. Quit being lazy, read brother Leo's ideas on this subject. Dummbass!


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> No (du-mass), it's $1.00. Quit being lazy, read brother Leo's ideas on this subject. Dummbass!


That would require using the search.....:no: Maybe I'll try. No I am lazy..Got a link?:thumbup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:no:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

You make my brain hurt.........


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

That's my job.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

summithomeinc said:


> So what questions do you ask to be able to say that BEFORE you waste the time meeting with them and working up the proposal?


 
I ask questions over the phone and depending what I hear I have a couple routes to take. 

IE IF you call me up and say you want a free estimate for your bath and you have 3 others coming by on such and such day. I will tell you that we have a 100.00 written estimate fee. 99% Decline on that offer when the conversation starts like that.

If you call me up and say your interested in having me come out to the house because you have a bathroom you want remodeled but really have no idea of price or feasability and your in my area, free 1 hour consulatation at the house after I mention what we will be going over including "initial remodeling budget (what they hope it will cost) 

IF they dont faint after going over the scope of the job, offering options etc... I whip out my table show them pics of their neighbors bathroom, a CAD drawing and a 3-D rendering I say "Well this job that you both seem to like ended at $25k, How does that fit with your initial budget"? Then I wait,,,,, one of 2 things will happen, they will start back tracking or be vague about what their budget is (watch for body language especially her, he budget will be 2x what his is) or they will say "Well thats a little over our budget but we like what we hear" I will write an estimate and do a quick rendering that I reference on my tablet at the presentation when I set the next appointment right then and there to show them my committment, yeah I get burned occasionally but the ones I land make it all worth it and then some. I dont charge for estimates...yet.....

I always ask where they are at in the process of choosing a contractor. I am also a remodeling contractor where there are lots of designs, material selections, etc... So i make they understand they will be dealing with me and me only as the PM, GC, Designer etc... Its easier for me to stand out as I have more areas to look better to them in. 

So in short it depends.....:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

This sounds_ vaguely_ familiar...


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

J F said:


> This sounds_ vaguely_ familiar...


I am sure it does!!!! It also works, thanks!!:thumbup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

It's always nice to see a smart guy do well.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*Home owners*

A concept that is hard to acknowledge and most do not want to accept is as follows. Not always but in many more instances than we are willing to believe,we do not set our prices,our competition sets them for us. Some of you will dig in your heels and try to refute that statement. Go out and open a buisness changing front porch light bulbs. Set your price at $110 a bulb,$10 material,$100 labor,see how many jobs you get. I'm not saying it is right,all i'm saying is more often than not cheap prices run off quality.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

fjn said:


> A concept that is hard to acknowledge and most do not want to accept is as follows. Not always but in many more instances than we are willing to believe,we do not set our prices,our competition sets them for us. Some of you will dig in your heels and try to refute that statement. Go out and open a buisness changing front porch light bulbs. Set your price at $110 a bulb,$10 material,$100 labor,see how many jobs you get. I'm not saying it is right,all i'm saying is more often than not cheap prices run off quality.


I would charge at least 130.00. I get it too when I change light bulbs...


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*Light bulbs*



summithomeinc said:


> I would charge at least 130.00. I get it too when I change light bulbs...


 Do you really and truly get $1,300 if a home owner called you and said they have 10 bulbs that need changing? I suppose you have a bridge you would like to sell me.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Maybe if the bulbs were at the top of a skyscraper. It sounds nice when you type it though. :laughing:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

fjn said:


> Do you really and truly get $1,300 if a home owner called you and said they have 10 bulbs that need changing? I suppose you have a bridge you would like to sell me.


Of course not. I didn't say for each bulb. 1300.00 would be rediculous. On the other hand, if it took me 2 days, then yeah at least 1300.00. I am assuming we are talking about residential. I have changed commercial bulbs that were over 50.00 just for the bulb.

As far as charging 130 or 1300 it makes no difference to me. I sell time. I don't care what the customer wants me to do in that time. They are paying for time though. This means there are some jobs that I probably won't get, or at least I won't get many of. Like changing light bulbs. My rate for my time is usually more than someone would want to spend for that. I charge a service call then hourly. Most of the time I just price it for a flat rate. The flat rate still reflects the service call and hourly though. So you are right. I won't get many bulb changing jobs. But if I do get them I'll be paid for my time.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Maybe if the bulbs were at the top of a skyscraper. It sounds nice when you type it though. :laughing:


I'm fraid of heights. I'd have to sub it out to you.:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Is Spot Rd. biscuits open on Sunday? :laughing:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> Is Spot Rd. biscuits open on Sunday? :laughing:


Not sure but damn that sounds like a good idea.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I don't think they are...but damn, good stuff, Maynard.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

you should call and see if they are or not


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

_You_ should call...:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I already know they're not open on Sundays...bastids!


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)




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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

If you allready knew, then why did you bring it up and get me all excited about it?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Because I'm EVIL!









And I wanted you to share my pain.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Now I'm gonna have to wake up the wife and have her make me some biscuits...


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## kfreed (Aug 13, 2021)

kevjob said:


> I have used this line before " It seems our company is not a good match for your project, thank you and good luck with your project. In years past I might be a little snippy with them and say "oh I though you were looking for a professional remodeling company, sorry for wasting your time"
> 
> 
> Its all about where YOU put your focus. I now have clients that dont care the other guy is at 6k when I am 17k for a bathroom, I still get the a-holes who falsely believe they will get the same quality bathroom at 6k that they would at 17k until they realize the materials are 7k! With internet leads they can be hit or miss even when my website clearly states some pricing via cost vs value report on there.


Welp, most people get a gander at what you're charging for labor per hour and then they look at what they're getting an hour, and it looks like you don't have much to complain about. Most of us, those who are serious about renovating and hiring actual professionals, will already have done our homework and chosen the materials (down to the nuts and bolts), finalized design plans, taken into account overhead, fees, permits and so on. We overestimate the time it will take because we're not slave drivers. Offer to feed the crews. Still, the attitudes are obnoxious and the malrkey is off the cliff.

And if ou're thinking we're just sitting here with our pinky fingers at half mast, note that we, too, have loads of heavy lifting going on. Unfortunately, none f us are qualified to do everything and we could use some help without the endless BS.

I have yet to actually encounter the vast reservoir of these so-called professionals. So far, it's been a relative few decent guys who know their stuff. The rest have been loudmouths just winging it. They got paid, but let's just say, we're wise to the okey-doke these days.

I lurk here to get the point of view of those in the profession, so when I see this garbage posted, I normally scroll on by. Not today. Talk to people like they're people instead of marks.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

To the homeowner. Do what I do. Get your quotes, and if you don't like the numbers, do it yourself, it's really easy.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

kfreed said:


> Welp, most people get a gander at what you're charging for labor per hour and then they look at what they're getting an hour, and it looks like you don't have much to complain about. Most of us, those who are serious about renovating and hiring actual professionals, will already have done our homework and chosen the materials (down to the nuts and bolts), finalized design plans, taken into account overhead, fees, permits and so on. We overestimate the time it will take because we're not slave drivers. Offer to feed the crews. Still, the attitudes are obnoxious and the malrkey is off the cliff.
> 
> And if ou're thinking we're just sitting here with our pinky fingers at half mast, note that we, too, have loads of heavy lifting going on. Unfortunately, none f us are qualified to do everything and we could use some help without the endless BS.
> 
> ...


Guy, you're just pathologically confused, nobody here can help you with that.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

kfreed said:


> Showing you bids doesn't seem to phase most of you. I keep them in a binder (all from supposedly well-known reputable outfits). My question is why is one bid thousands more than another when the materials/products, scope, and labor are identical? I can pull out three bids for the same exact job, but then you get to denigrating each other. Who should I believe? And trust me, I'm not hitting up Bob, the one-man show, from over the way. The amount of time it takes to even line up the minimum three quotes is an endless game of phone tag, reminders, and playing the waiting game. That's just the exterior paint job. Imagine having a whole house to renovate. Our primary and only home, btw. I have binders full of dudes and honestly, I think you're trying to drive me insane. I've been at this long enough to have noticed a pattern here and it's not me. It's you. Not even joking.
> 
> We're debt free ad have a huge budget set aside. We've got our ducks in a row insofar as materials, design (down to a gnats arse). Still, it's a nightmare dealing with most of you. The finger pointing is exhausting. I'm at the point of becoing a near stalker whenever I manage to locate one of the good one's and just keep them coming back.
> 
> I've been lurking for a few years in an effort to learn a thing or two, but the Malarkey finally got me signed in. I just could not keep it shut any longer. Has anybody ever tried working together or this just some kind of chest thumping contest?


Why is one "thousands of dollars more than another?" Well that statement alone says that you definitely are not signing the front of the check as a business owner..... establishment in the market, demand for unique product or reputation, experience va inexperienced contractors estimating drawings with no specs, one contractor hires crack heads for 16 an hour cash and the other guy has pros making 30 to pay for. One wants to make 2k a week and prices that way. The other does a break down company Overhead per annum and breaks off some to each job, pays himself supervision and plans for a 10% net profit. These items alone make a huge price difference

As a home builder I see builders use cheap subs and do cost plus 10%, I wouldn't build a dog house for 10% and I don't use cheapo subs. If direct costs for 10% Boi was 600k using his broke dick subs and my direct cost is 715k with my subs and crew, and my mark up is double the wanna bes mark up thats about 180k difference for the "same house". Not to mention my allowances would be for nice tile or engineered wood floors with Schluter, my shower allowances are double a lot of builders, 85 a sq ft minimum on countertops, upper end Kitchen Aide is where my appliances start, 2-3% for lighting, 2-3% for plumbing fixtures, etc..... are my standard allowances for a standard home, goes up from there. Lots of builders throw $2 tile, discount wall tile, Whirlpool trac shack special appliances, Lowes Clearance lights and plumbing fixtures etc.... wildly different. I dont compete against groupies, don't have to, but it's the way it is for sure.

No one cares about your issues hiring handy hacks. You gave yourself away that your playing phone tag, not dealing with pros. The pizza Boi not getting you your paint qoute back on time isn't a concern here.

You better state what your trade and occupation is before you get banned, amigo. Don't say GC either, I already know by your posts that's not accurate. No one wants to hear your ****ing woes as a home owner, so if you arent a tradesman or contractor step over to the DIY site


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## G&Co. (Jul 29, 2020)

Kfreed,
As a homeowner you should have found a good GC a long time ago and built a long term relationship with him. Give him all your projects and don't worry if he's 2% more or less than someone else. Just like you (hopefully) have a family doctor that you go to for any and all health issues. You don't get 3 bids every time you get a physical, do you? 
Pretty basic but many HOs don't seem to grasp this.


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## Paint Stick (Aug 3, 2021)

Most people will get 1-3 bids for a particular project, and then go with the contractor they like the most. Thats been my experience anyways. Money is a close second and often fights for first place. I suppose it often matters your client base as well. I can usually tell with in 5 minutes if they can even afford my company.


I dont play the 'race my competition to bankruptcy' game. I am in this to make money, not make people happy. Making money allows me the ability to makepeople happy, but making money comes first.


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## Paint Stick (Aug 3, 2021)

kfreed said:


> Welp, most people get a gander at what you're charging for labor per hour and then they look at what they're getting an hour, and it looks like you don't have much to complain about.


What a company charges per hour, and what people actually make per hour are VASTLY different. For instance, if I charge you $100/hr to paint your house, my take home is NOT $100 an hour. Out of that $100, we have: Payroll for employees, payroll taxes, workers comp, general liability, vehicle related expenses, all the X factor materials that dont make it into a line item, advertising, office work, TAXES, ect... Figure about 30% of a job goes straight to Taxes for us.. Next up is labor, at about 40-50% depending... then overhead, then I get paid, if I did everything right, if not, I dont get paid.

So Mr KFR, makes $30/hr doing whatever it is you do, call up a bunch of local painters to quote your home, if you have 2 bids next to mine and I am vastly higher, theres usually a good reason for that. In MY experience, theyre not carrying the proper insurance. They pay their guys cash, or use crappy materials, ect.

Given your location can also affect prices wildly which why pricing on these sites are usually frowned upon. Overhead and cost of labor is a huge factor that can swing prices quite wildly, so can the complexity of a project. For instant a3 story home with a slate roof and lots of dormers with clapboard siding can present unique, and dangerous challengesfor the contractor to over come in an effecient and safe manner.

If your project requires wierd acrobatics to make it work safely, you bet I am charging your handsomely for that. Experience tells me that in such scenarios, its better to lose the job, than to lose money/someone gets hurt cause your crunching due to not charging enough. No thank you.

But your right, many contractors are grumpy, I try to steer clear of the grumpy ones.

But you cant compare your take home pay, to what I charge per hour, because its two different animals. Your take home pay, hell your gross pay, doesnt even come close to my expenses.


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