# CAT vs Brand X



## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I've run CAT mostly, and I'm preferential to them, for a variety of reasons.

I don't mind Case, it seems like the Toyota of the equipment world, with CAT being Ford or Cadillac. :laughing:

I really don't like Deere. I just got done with a week and a half rental of one, and I remember why I dislike them so much. They just seem quirky.

My problem is, I have an old TCI telehandler. TCI was bought out by Gell sometime in the '80's I believe. It's a great machine, probably could run another 40 years. I've replaced tires and hydro lines, no problem.

Well, the other day, the steering ram sheared off at the ball joint. No one can find a part for it. I've been looking all over the country, at vintage equipment part dealers, and nothing. I'm looking at least $30,000 to replace what I have, if I have to get another used machine.

One advantage to CAT is the fact that they support older equipment. I'm Po'Folk, and I can't afford to buy a new machine every couple years. I want something I can repair for years. Some of the stuff I'm looking to buy is more for the ranch and small-scale logging, than construction, so I'm not always making a ton of cash every time I fire it up.  :laughing:

I hope Gene will chime in on this. You have more experience than I'll ever have, and I know you don't really like CAT.




Delta


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

My best friend is a salesman for CAT, 36 years. If one of his customers needs a part, and if it can fit in the back of his Suburban, he'll run it to their shop.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

have a pic of the part that failed?


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

for me to own a cat, i have to drive 100 miles plus either way to get parts.

the deere ag dealer, could literally get EVERY part i needed overnight as long as i got my order into them by 3:30.

cat costs a significant pile more when you buy, their parts costs more, their consumables cost more.

we rotated machines at about 8k hours. for us overall cost of ownership didn't merit the cat decal.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

I think you will always* be able to get long term parts/service support with Cat, Deere/Hitachi, Komatsu and probably Kubota at this point. Case is a little more of a question as they seem to jump around on suppliers more than the other main line manufacturers* (the star is there because in many instances they just slap their name on a machine built by some other foreign manufacturer).

To me the brand doesn't really mater much as they are mostly comparable in the same machine class. It's really which machine and dealer you have a preference for and who will give you the best price at the time.

Now when it comes to New Holland, Gehl, Wacker, Takeuchi, Kobelco, Sany, Doosan, etc, etc. Are the parts/dealer going to be there in 15 years? I plan on rotating every 4-5 years and 2-3k hours so I would certainly look at an off brand if the price was right, but they usually seem to be pretty close to a main brand machine when new.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

What about Volvo. How do they fall into the lineup. 

Can you just find someone to weld your part back together 7D41


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It can probably be fixed or an alternative part sourced. 

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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Well, the other day, the steering ram sheared off at the ball joint.
> Delta


I agree post a picture. Sounds easily fixable to me by a knowledgeable welder with a TIG setup. If not a machine shop could just make a new ram part, which won't cost $30K. You could probably just modify everything and use a different ram too. Maybe remake the mounts, put new hoses or ends on if needed and buy a new ram. Post a picture of the ram, mounts and anything else pertinent. There are a bunch of fabricators on this board after all 

For all else...there's bailing wire!


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

dayexco said:


> have a pic of the part that failed?


That's a good idea, post a pic of what's broken.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Peter_C said:


> There are a bunch of fabricators on this board after all


Why yes, yes there are. :laughing:

But agreed; I nearly posted earlier that given access to a machine shop, I could probably pretty easily repair and/or fabricate a replacement. For around tree-fitty, most likely.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I can't comment on the Cat vs others as I have never directly owned any Cat equipment. 

I also agree that your cylinder most likely can be repaired. Most cylinder repair facilities should be able to replace or make a new rod for that machine.


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## backhoe12 (Jan 10, 2018)

Around here, there seems to be an attitude that surrounds "CAT".


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

OK, since you guys asked, here goes. :laughing:

These are the pics of the steering cylinder. The cylinder is fine. The ball joint sheared off. 

Now for the saga. 

The machine is a late '70's early '80's TCI DynaLift. Gell bought DynaLift sometime in the '80's. DynaLift still makes forklifts, but not telehandlers, so they refer all inquiries to Gell. Gell has no information on the DynaLift D4P100. Nada, Zilch. 

I took the part to my local heavy equipment repair shop. They spent a week searching the country for the part, with no luck. As did I. They said, "Take it to a machine shop".

Machine shop guy said he could rebuild everything but the ball joint, and if I found a ball joint even similar, he could modify it. But he can't build it from scratch. He sent me to a heavy truck customizer to get some help.

Truck customizer sent me to a truck parts store. This was this afternoon. He is currently looking for something similar. Probably be a few days.

Truck parts guy said he's never seen a ball joint with a female end like mine. Machine shop guy said he would modify a male to a female. 

Basically a transvestite ball joint. :blink:  :laughing: :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist. :laughing:


Delta


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

There's got to be some old salty dude with a machine shop around you that can fabricate that. Is it cast or machined?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

I don't see anything "sheared off". I see a double-acting hydraulic cylinder with a ball joint on one end, and a threaded shaft on the other end, ready to receive a ball joint (I'd guess).


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The ball joint threads on it looks like. Can't be that hard to find something close and make it fit. Send it to Indiana, we can fix anything. 


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Looks like McMaster Carr has a bunch of those joints. 

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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_outer_tie_rod_ends.asp

There are a lot of female ends in the chart. You'll need to take a few measurements and enter them in the drop down menus, but I'd bet you can find a match or something that will work with a little machining.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Yup on what the other guys are saying. Not going to be morphodite parts on that system. They would have designed as much as possible with off the shelf parts.

Too bad your machine shop guy didn't at least measure the shaft & use a thread pitch gauge so you would know what to look for.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

That pin coming out of the ball joint is just stuck in there. It pulls right out. That is the part that broke. What is left of the ball joint is all torn up inside.

The other end connects to the giant ball joint on the wheel. It bent when it came off.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, it has 2 steering cylinders per axle. One per wheel. :blink:  So if it isn't a perfect match, the wheels will steer out of sync, and tear itself apart. 


Delta


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Yup on what the other guys are saying. Not going to be morphodite parts on that system. They would have designed as much as possible with off the shelf parts.
> 
> Too bad your machine shop guy didn't at least measure the shaft & use a thread pitch gauge so you would know what to look for.


Guy at the parts store did.

I'm trying not to hold out too much hope. This fukking disaster has already backed me up so much........


Delta


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

tgeb said:


> http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_outer_tie_rod_ends.asp
> 
> There are a lot of female ends in the chart. You'll need to take a few measurements and enter them in the drop down menus, but I'd bet you can find a match or something that will work with a little machining.


Dadgum if some of those don't look exactly like what I need. :clap:

I'll go measure it myself tomorrow, just in case my parts guy doesn't come through. 

Part of the problem is, I'm not too good with truck and machinery repair. I can remove and install stuff, but I don't know chit about terminology and such. 



Delta


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

The chart I posted if you begin to enter information in the fields it will drop down a tutorial explaining the methods of measuring your existing part.

For instance in the box labeled "Length-Inch" enter "2.0" and the page will change to the tutorial and also display all the ends that are 2" long.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Piece of cake, and I guarantee the parts are available. 

Measure the threads, measure the lengths and do what tgeb says, and you will have your equipment back up and running. 










Napa Auto Truck HD parts should have what you need. Most any tractor store should be able to get them. McMaster Carr as suggested above is another source. 

https://www.tractorjoe.com/parts/p/...ctor/b/ford-new-holland/m/4600/?c=101&sc=1431

Make sure if there are grease fittings you routinely grease them too.

Edit: Year, make, and model are always good to provide when asking for help. 
https://midtnequipment.com/content/...escopic-Boom-Forklift-Parts-Manual-908459.pdf


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

If that shank diameter is more than 3/4" I think it's going to be difficult to source. And if that stud is tapered it's going to be even harder to find. But you might be able to make something that can work. As previously suggested, need dimensions.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

rustyjames said:


> If that shank diameter is more than 3/4" I think it's going to be difficult to source. And if that stud is tapered it's going to be even harder to find. But you might be able to make something that can work. As previously suggested, need dimensions.


You're correct. The taper is what was the biggest issue.

The pin coming out of the ball joint goes through a plate welded to the frame. If it doesn't sit at the exact right height, it'll throw the angle of the cylinder off.

It looks simple at first glance, but it might not be.




Delta


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

If you can't find a direct replacement then something like this type fitting could be fitted: 
https://www.zoro.com/qa1-female-rod...ment&gclid=CMnfgILKhdkCFYnEswodueQM4Q&gclsrc=

A tapered bolt could be fabricated and the assembly shimmed accordingly to fit the bracket on the machine.


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Good chance this company can supply that rod end: http://www.truckcomponentsonline.com/TIE-ROD-ENDS.HTML


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you all for your assistance. The link above, for truckcomponentsonline, is where I found the correct part number, but I had to search around for the part.

Shank diameter is over 1", so moog and most other places had nothing. It's evidently a Ford F-800 part from the '80's. 

Stumped the guy at the parts store, but the guys at CT came through.:clap: :laughing:

Here it is, got one on the way.

https://www.mixerandplantparts.com/TRW-ES3304R-Drag-Link-Assembly-Replacement-p/es3304r.htm

Thanks for all the help. Been a frustrating couple weeks. 




Delta


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Good to hear :thumbsup:. Yeah, once you have a part number the rest is easy. Pretty pricey on that though. Did you try ebay? That's the first place I look, with hopes that someone has one that's been laying around and just wants to blow it out.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I had to determine that the brake parts on my 50s Yale forklift were from a 50s Ford f2, most engine accessories are from a Chrysler car or dodge truck. Napa has been great at taking old part numbers off old parts and cross referencing them. 

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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Cross referenced from an Amazon link I found. 
http://gpartsinc.com/power-steering-tie-rod-end-steer-cylinder-tie-rod-end-for-ford-mack-volvo/

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWRHES3304R
Bragg should have it available fairly quickly.

Edit: Replaces Automann 462.ES9000, Dayton 310-441, Euclid E-9967, Euclid E9876, Ford D0HZ-3B711-A, Ford D0HZ3B711A, Meritor R230422, Volvo 02-702532, Volvo 027025321, Volvo 3082389, GM 3082389, TRW 403786, TRW ES9000, TRW ES3304R, TRW L24SV5108A13, Moog ES3304R, Flagg ES9000, Newstar S-B945, and Mack 37QC34A


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Peter_C said:


> Cross referenced from an Amazon link I found.
> http://gpartsinc.com/power-steering-tie-rod-end-steer-cylinder-tie-rod-end-for-ford-mack-volvo/
> 
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWRHES3304R
> ...


yup. Not surprised by the range of oem using a part.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

$100 for the part? amazon overnight it and have it running tomorrow afternoon.

nothing to this silly game.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> Cross referenced from an Amazon link I found.
> http://gpartsinc.com/power-steering-tie-rod-end-steer-cylinder-tie-rod-end-for-ford-mack-volvo/
> 
> https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWRHES3304R
> ...





dayexco said:


> $100 for the part? amazon overnight it and have it running tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> nothing to this silly game.


Saw that one at Amazon, but it said "Currently Unavailable". I also found the one at Global Parts, but I was a little leery of that one. Don't know where they come from. 

I was just happier than a hooker on payday to find one for 100 bucks. :laughing:

Another 200 for repair of the cylinder. The other end bent, so he's gotta machine a new ram. 



Delta


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

So it's actually coming out pretty close to tree-fitty. Cool. :laughing:


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