# Skilled worker shortage???



## Mason54 (May 3, 2008)

Has anyone else been reading articles over the last few years of how there is going to be a huge demand for skilled workers in construction trades over the next 10-15 years? Do most of you think this is just hype or there is actually some merit to the so called up and coming skilled worker crisis. I know that there is a skills shortage now in alot of areas. They make a point in alot of these articles that most young people are shying away from trades and going to college instead for various reasons. Anyone else have any thoughts on what the industry will look like in 10-15 years when the boomers with all the experience are all gone? 

Does anyone have a logical opinion on why this is happening. All i hear is that young people are lazy, but that really isnt a great answer that will provide solutions to a problem.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

I believe the government has a plan to remedy that problem. 

They simply allow all of our business to move overseas and viola` no more need for skilled tradesmen!!













there go the jobs.


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

Mason54 said:


> Has anyone else been reading articles over the last few years of how there is going to be a huge demand for skilled workers in construction trades over the next 10-15 years? Do most of you think this is just hype or there is actually some merit to the so called skilled worker crisis. They make a point in alot of these articles that most young people are shying away from trades and going to college instead for various reasons. Anyone else have any thoughts on what the industry will look like in 10-15 years when the boomers with all the experience are all gone?


Young American children will have no choice to shy away from the trade jobs you're referring to, too many American contractors stabbing there own and themselves in the back by hiring unskilled, or better know as illegal alien's. Whats going to happen when the boomers are gone ? Se Habla Español? 

At the rate things are going its more than a possibility they will dominate the construction field in the future. Weather they are a Legal or illegal business owner they in fact will hire only there own.


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

i agree with comments above. once they get into business illegal or legal, this will hire their own. they will dominate the construction field in the future, talking about residential and lite commercial. Not the heavy industries, i think. Its going to be a while before they run that.

On a side note, i think everyone can agree with me there, even though im a youth 23, besides the point.... the youth from your days are way different from these days. I cannot hire a decent young individual. most are only concerned about the clock, fridays check, come to work high, or on drugs. not saying all is, but there is a good handful of them. we will continue to have fewer and fewer skilled tradesmen. Well thats where the illegals come in. Besides the fact they are illegal, they dont pay taxes, and screwing the legal workforce... you have to admit, they are very hardworking, willing to work, and learn. i respect them in that sense, none other! if our legal workforce had the same attitude about working as the illegals, I could see things being much better. These kids these days are all about the ipods, cars, and material things. These guys want to work.

our youth has changed alot. your generation cannot be compared to the current. 

im pretty sure everyone noticed it already, but there work isnt there anymore. I know my area NYC, we have lots of competition. Back in the days, we had tons of work lined up, carried big crews, etc.. today, sometimes its hard to find work for just my 4 man crew. With the addition of all this BS DIY shows, Home depot & lowes, plus their workshops, everyone is their own contractor. Why hire a flooring contractor to tile the kitchen? Buy the material and diy or hire a cheap handyguy (uninsured ofcourse) catch my drift here? comments welcome.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm 28 and I dont know how to do anything but bust my ass. HO's love seeing you put in the extra time, the extra details, putting in the same compassion for a 1000.00 job or 20k. But you are right I need help and am looking for help, I just cant find anyone like me and that is what I need. I dont think I would trust to many people that I could find with my tools, sigh. Guess I will have to figure out how to function on no sleep.


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

nywoodwizard....yeppers! Your exactly correct.....

When I began in this biz 25 odd years ago, we, (the younger Americans), were "go-getters" for the most part.....had goals. and were proud of our work, etc.....Made excellent money...alot of us chose to go the construction/contractor path, rather than to college.....We were buying homes and starting families when our college-bound buddies were just getting out of school and begining thier careers.....Heck, by the age of 30, I had my first home bought and paid for.....

If I would've had a crystal ball, that would've been the time to change careers......

Today the construction biz, (res. in particular), is infested with the illegal worker force...Half-azz qualified individuals that only have one goal; To extract as much wealth as they can during thier temporary stay in the U.S.
They're opportunists to the highest degree......The people/contractors that hire them ought to be deported too!

Wages have stagnated the last 20 years. What young, intellegent, self-respecting American would want to start his carreer amongst a bunch of non-English speaking, disrespectful crimminals? At a lees-than-desirable wage to boot? It's no wonder!


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## Mason54 (May 3, 2008)

I agree with most of your comments thus far concerning illegals and greedy corporations. Im a third generation mason and from what i have seen in the last ten years or so leads me to believe that more than ever contractors and owners alike have been making their decisions mainly on price; quality is now way down the list, which is where the illegal workers come in. I hold the belief that there is some truth to the skilled worker shortage but from what i have seen when a shortage occurs big corporations will publicize it to make it sound like they cant get enough workers then they will go to congress and tell them that we need foreign labor to cover this big shortage we have; when it really isnt a shortage at all its just that workers arent willing to work for what the corporations are paying them and big companies want the biggest profit they can squeeze! Its happening in the IT industry now. I wonder if thats what is happening in this industry?


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

I believe you hit the nail on the head mason54!


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## skylands (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm a fourth generation carpenter. I ***** about the quality of the labor force today. 

My father bitched about the labor force during the 60's

My grandfather squalked about those young lazy no accounts during the 40's

I agree that skilled labor is getting worse each generation but when you put it in perspective, it's nothing new.

A) It was only 3 generations ago that houses were still being constructed with little electric. My father never owned a chop saw. He cut every piece of trim by hand in the miter box. Show me a contractor who teaches his help that style of craftsmanship. 

B) Shop classes are equipted with every piece of tool and safety protection that we don't have in the field. So the students get a false sence of idea of what we do in the field. The few tech kids that have come to work for me had to be re-educated that we don't have perfectly sharpened blades hanging on the wall nor do we have heated shops to work in during the winter. 

C) Modular construction, air tools, dimenson shingles, vinyl siding, have all contributed to the demise of skilled craftsmen in todays trades. Or at least compared to yesteryears tradesmen. When I was in my 20's I had to hand cut every corner on the clapboards because my grandfather felt that any hack could use corner boards. Now, the illegals hang 20 or 30 square of vinyl siding in one day. 

So it's really nothing new.


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## healthyhomes (Mar 14, 2008)

I am starting to see a similar pattern occuring with immigrants trying to take over the contracting business here in Canada. Where I'm from (Winnipeg, MB) we have an abundance of immigrants. They come in and join the ranks of the hacks, quote a job 50% cheaper than I do, and then [email protected]* it up!

It seems our general construction industry (residential/light commercial) has become an un-organized, and unproffesional mess. People arent trained properly anymore, no one knows about or cares about new and improved ways of doing things etc. It's no wonder no young people are entering the trades. They see it as a mear labourers position. They think it's dirty, and below them. I can say this because I am 25, and 7 years ago when I entered the field my thoughts were the same. I thought it will just be a temporary thing until I figure out what I want to do. I was lucky I had a boss at the time that opened my eyes, and it turned out I am passionate about it.

People whom I know in the business say "we need more regulation". I think that's only partially true. What we need is to educate young people and our customers. We need to show people how intricate our work is, and what value it holds. And above all we need to take pride in what we do and show it off.

I wish someone would start a ******* contractor mafia. Controlled by us who our passionate about what we do, not the government. We could then easily drive out the hacks and immigrants, and give credibility back to ourselves. But thats just me dreaming!


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

Agreed healthyhomes!

The lack of inovation/effeciency;.....I remember a year or so ago I was looking for a power-trowel, (as we call them), to finish some conrete flat-work......Ya, know, I had a hellava time finding one....They're non-existant anymore!.....t seems all the concrete contractors would rather pay 6 illegal mexicans to hand-trowel their flat work....


There's no desire to become more efficient....."just utilize cheap labor"...


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

My most productive and easiest to manage workers have all been older. What they might lack in stamina and speed they have always made up for by being able to do it right the first time and having the knowledge it takes to solve problems. Guys in that generation seem to want to work and make money with the least amount of drama possible. I can't say the same for generation xers.


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## AllAmerican (Nov 17, 2007)

Last year I read an interesting article in a plumbing trade magazine. It discusses some of the problems I believe we all may have when it comes to the skilled worker issue. The article can be found at: www.reevesjournal.com/Articles/Cover_Story/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000187672


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## DAVIS081404 (Oct 20, 2006)

I graduated High School in 1997, it was the last year our school district offered any type of shop classes. Plenty of spanish classes to fill its place???????????????????????


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

:thumbup:


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

The 1 thing that has influence this more than anything else, is the mislabelling employees as subcontractors, to surpress wages. This is how "the going rate" has been staggnant for 20 years now, and what little it has gone up, it in no way has stayed in pace with the cost of living. This then sets up the perfect scenerio for the use of low cost illegal labor. There is no pride in the work, just how low can we slam this in and actually get paid and we will deal with the failure as it happens(point fingers everywhere)

So all the real craftsmen have bailed or have moved to more lucrative areas or careers. When kids see a bunch of illegals, they are not going to be compared to them, so the young, think these are jobs Americans don't want to do. No one seems to understand, that Americans need to support America, instead of everything coming from forien countries. Sky high tariffs!!!! Someone along time ago saw this exact thing happening to America, and estbilished high tariffs on imports. America was pretty much self sufficient. Just think what would happen today if we really pissed everyone off and they cut off all the imports coming into our ports today!!!! We as Americans, would be screwed!!


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## skylands (Dec 10, 2005)

This is most likely not politically correct, but maybe a little less welfare, and a little less unemployment compensation might help to put some more young people on the jobsite. In other words,

"If you don't work, you don't eat"

If a young guy with a family _"had"_ to work to feed his family, we wouldn't have the illegal problem we have.


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

There's not going to be a labor shortage. Everyone is realizing that the government is not going to do anything about illegal immigration so they choose not to get into those jobs where they would be at risk. If I was a kid today I would certainly not go into a field where illegals are going to steal your job because they will work of much less and the governement won't enforce it's laws or fine employers. Illegals are going to continue to take more of these jobs. Remeber all those jobs that were done by high school or college kids? Now they are all done by illegals. It may depend on where you live, but here in California illegals are everywhere. Employers know that the government is not going to do anything. I was just working for a big company that had over a 100 guys on the jobsite. Many of them were illegal. Instead of a paycheck, they get paid with a debit card so they don't have to cash a check. How do I know they were illegal and not just hispanic? Some of them told me they were illegal and they also told me that many of the guys working there were illegal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/b...d=1&ei=5070&en=d6d43a1cc5118c17&ex=1178424000


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

BKFranks said:


> There's not going to be a labor shortage. Everyone is realizing that the government is not going to do anything about illegal immigration so they choose not to get into those jobs where they would be at risk. If I was a kid today I would certainly not go into a field where illegals are going to steal your job because they will work of much less and the governement won't enforce it's laws or fine employers. Illegals are going to continue to take more of these jobs. Remeber all those jobs that were done by high school or college kids? Now they are all done by illegals. It may depend on where you live, but here in California illegals are everywhere. Employers know that the government is not going to do anything. I was just working for a big company that had over a 100 guys on the jobsite. Many of them were illegal. Instead of a paycheck, they get paid with a debit card so they don't have to cash a check. How do I know they were illegal and not just hispanic? Some of them told me they were illegal and they also told me that many of the guys working there were illegal.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/b...d=1&ei=5070&en=d6d43a1cc5118c17&ex=1178424000




Everybody picked the presidential canadates in these primaries with the worst record and solutions on ilegals, give yourselves a big pat on the back america. Guess this means another 4 years and 10 million more ? If relected 20 million. Long island will probably get about 1/6th of them because It seems they think the further away from the boarder they get ,the safer they are. Someone should tell them it doesn't matter , you're free to go wherever you like. (preferably back to cali at least) sorry just can't fit anymore here, were just a little island not a big state.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

A ray of hope for the anti-immigrant people. -

Some lettuce growers are moving across the boarder to Mexico because of a lack of skilled pickers and other help in the U.S.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> A ray of hope for the anti-immigrant people. -
> 
> Some lettuce growers are moving across the boarder to Mexico because of a lack of skilled pickers and other help in the U.S.



Not all of us are anti-immigrant. I would be one who is very pro-immigrant.

Now you wanna talk about illegal aliens? Whoa buddy... that's different story. I am passionately anti-illegal alien.


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

You nearly taook the words out of my mouth Floordude!

Why is it paople just don't get it?


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## pfloyd (Feb 28, 2008)

There sure is some interesting new words created in this thread...:whistling The USA owes its prosperity to cheap labour from the beginning anyways. You think it would have had the good run it did without slavery? Illegals are just filling the same void that is the linchpin of the American economy. Does anyone want to pay 10 bucks for a Big Mac so the worker can make a living wage? I dont think so.


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## buletbob (Mar 16, 2008)

there is one thing I give respect for the Immigrants, they show up everyday,don't do drugs, and work hard all day. there is no kid today that is going to work like them. Don't get me wrong I don't want them here but if the gov. is goinging to let them still come in then why not take advantage of the situation. I do employ legal immigrants, they do have there papers and drivers lice. 
I'm tired of the crap I get from these piss ant collage drop outs. Example. I had this kid working for me started out fine. his desire to learn was great. I was paying him 150.00 per day. I told him I expected him to be at work 15 min before start. which is 8.00am no cell phones during work break time at 10.00am lunch at 12.00-12.30 and break at 2.00pm stop work at 4.30pm and clean up and leave at 5.00pm
caught him on the phone talking to his girl friend and gave him a warning. he was good for a few days till on day he came back from the porta-poti and his han was all blue I ask what happened he would not say, 20min later I go out to the truck to get my address book which I had to pas his truck to get to mine. as I was walking back I noticed his phone on the dash of his truck with the battery taken out and the phone was all blue.????????? I need not say more. I left it at that good for him. One week goes by he gets a new phone I catch him on the phone again. I give him another warning. I he see's I'm ready to burst but I hold back and walk away. at the end of the day I tell him give me a call tonight I'll let you know whats going on for tomorrow. he does not call. the next day he showes up 20min late sits in his truck until he finishes his coffie , walks up to the job as i,m going over things with the electrician, I ask him what happened last night why did you not call. He says real tuff I have to call you on my time.It took alot to hold my self from knoking this guy out. but I calmly said stop buy friday for your check. I'm 52yrs old and cant take these spoiled pampered son,s of bit***.
I can go on and on about workers, Its no where the same as when I was broken in as a kid.If I didn't move quick enough my father would take his hammer handle to the back of the head. you learned real quick. today he would be put away. there is no repect with the kids today its like we owe them. 
these immergrents have take a bus to the job site when there car was down. get a kid today to do that. Like i said I dont agree with the ones that sneek into this country illegally. but the ones that are here and came here the right way you can't beet there hard work. BOB


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

22rifle said:


> Not all of us are anti-immigrant. I would be one who is very pro-immigrant.
> 
> Now you wanna talk about illegal aliens? Whoa buddy... that's different story. I am passionately anti-illegal alien.


That is a whole different story and one i would like to share a story about. I know a family from Europe, children waited 6 years to get here, mom finally got here, there dad has been trying for the last 8 years and is soon to be here finally.
They did what they were suppose to. The legal way. God bless them all. For all you who think its fair to allow some illegal from Mexico, to just come here illegally and to be allowed to stay. Is an idiot. 
Folks who come here legally are hard workers and more apt to shy away from drugs and crime. Illegals however made crime rates jump dramatically, why? because lots of them come from a criminal society, There 3rd world governments are composed of by criminals themselves. Crimes like drugs , homicides, and rapes is an everyday part of there culture. After committing crimes like these why care about out little stupid laws.


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## pfloyd (Feb 28, 2008)

Its pretty funny with all this horrible spelling and at the same time bashing immigrants.How ironic :laughing:. Come on, at least try the spell check for chrissakes.


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## SpecOne (Apr 3, 2008)

Is there a shortage of skilled labor? I think so. Schools across the nation are abandoning vocational programs because the government is placing more mandates on them to get high marks on standardized tests. More and more college and trade school vocational programs are disappearing. There are plenty of people to blame for the shortage.....including ourselves. The responsibility to create skilled labor on our jobsites is going to rest with us. You are going to have to invest time and money in training you're employees and making sure they have all skills necessary to do their job the way it's suppose to be done. Then you are going to have to invest and enpower your workforce and provide some sort of security and sense of accomplishment and advancement to keep that worker that you have trained to be become skilled....or he'll take those skills you gave him and work for your competitor. I think the ball's in our court.


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

And there you have it fella's................There's some fine examples of why we're in this mess....

Some are clueless......Some continue to exploit the illegal worker force....and yet some are bit of both.......

BTW......it's _typing errors..._not spelling errors......


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

They made a research on US population and predict the following in the 90s (in which some are true):

1. Old age population increases (higher longevity too, due to better medicine and last baby boomers of 1960s growing up) thus drains more US retirement & social security funds;

2. Illegal issues aside, for next decades, Spanish population increases "faster" than white or black because every mom/dad likes to have more children (its' their culture of a tight-knit family living together);

3. Lack of young skilled workers because of recent wars deployment (Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.) lure some of them, because of most corporate/company "outsourcing" their work to India/China for cheaper labor, because of companies laid-off/closing plants, and because of new generation X are more "lazy" than their parents due to too much entertainments available to them like Internet web/chat, video/computer games, etc. Futhermore, they don't want to work for less wages, they don't want to compete with Mexicans for lower pays, they want easy paying job, fast pay, and they can not pursue higher degrees due to fast increases in today living/education costs, and most think future is not easy like their parents'. Most students in college now must rely on credit cards to survive the increasing cost of tuition, rent, gas, foods and part-time jobs because parents can't help them, and the parents also have problems with curent mortgage mess, home equity is decreasing.

4. More college students now, after graduation, can't find work, MUST move back to live in parents' houses, hold part-time jobs, or go back to pursue more schooling, or keep applying for jobs, etc.

5. Global warming, more floods & dry lands, more tornadoes/hurricanes, wild fires, & food shortage/production problems worldwide, etc.

Conclusion : Lives in the 21st century is more difficult than the 20 century....and how about the 22nd century (100 more years down the road...lives on Mars possible, farming/growing foods on Mars, etc ??)


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> My most productive and easiest to manage workers have all been older. What they might lack in stamina and speed they have always made up for by being able to do it right the first time and having the knowledge it takes to solve problems. Guys in that generation seem to want to work and make money with the least amount of drama possible. I can't say the same for generation xers.



In defense after most of these comments. Im 20 and I run my ass off and by business does well. Two of my friends one 22 and one 25 own two business thats are quickly taking over our valley. While all the old guys are selling their trucks and houses to live with the economy. We just run harder and work later, you can't even tell there is a slump with us. Just because your children or the the kids around you are lazy doesn't mean its Gen xers. I would say most of the time its from being brought up with no discipline and being spoiled as schit which is pretty common. I'm looking at buying my own house this summer and Im pretty proud of that. But probably 1/3 my class that went to college has already had houses bought for them by their parents. The parents don't instill hard work in their kids anymore, its about behaving at school and going to college, so you don' t have to work hard.


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

Like said above to I think that parents letting their kids come home and stay home when they are 20 + years old and helping them buy things doesn't put pressure on them to go out and make money. I think that another thing to though and I learned this in my teens is that most of the old guys didn't want to teach me ****, they want me to run them sheets of plywood all day but not show me how to lay the subfloor properly. Stock the sheetrock and scrap but not teach what a good or bad screw is or how to scribe. Learning makes the work more entertaining so when young guys are actually learning stuff all day instead of being your *****, they look forward to coming back the next day and maybe getting to apply it on their own.


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

I like your way of thinking BattleRidge..very insightfull.......I'm 50....I've mentored a few like yourself...They've gone on to become extremely successfull contractors in one trade or another. I've got a couple of good "kids" now, (both about 20), one is exceptional.....They're "Americans".....they're out there, just hard to find....

Today, however, is a different world, in the construction industry.... especially depending on your geographic location......and specific trade....some of the trades are just plain hammered.....(over-run with the cheap illegal labor pool),......I'm headed back to hills/rural areas, myself.....


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## Beater82 (Mar 22, 2008)

tnt specialty said:


> I like your way of thinking BattleRidge..very insightfull.......I'm 50....I've mentored a few like yourself...They've gone on to become extremely successfull contractors in one trade or another. I've got a couple of good "kids" now, (both about 20), one is exceptional.....They're "Americans".....they're out there, just hard to find....
> 
> Today, however, is a different world, in the construction industry.... especially depending on your geographic location......and specific trade....some of the trades are just plain hammered.....(over-run with the cheap illegal labor pool),......I'm headed back to hills/rural areas, myself.....



You hit it there, Bud:thumbsup: Down here in the bay area it's basically all illegals. In 1993 a carpenter made around $25 an hour down here. 15 years later when a 3 bedroom house costs $2300 a month to rent, the wages are still the same if not lower.


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

Staggnant "going rates" are from employees getting called subcontractors, which has gone on for way too long, and now everyone is seeing the effects. That's why you can't find skilled workers. These guys are in no way ready to run their own business, yet they become one as soon as the first pay check arrives. The businesses that hire them, exploit their lack of business education, and dictate a very low and unrealistic(for a separate business to stay afloat) "going rate" to their exploited employee.

Low compensation for a business... Who wants in!!


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