# does this need a saddle or a cricket?



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

previous customer of mine had a roofer fix her roof and she called and said it was still leaking.As you can see the hip on one roof ends up higher than the valley where it intersects the other roof

any thoughts?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

few more last pic is where the waters is showing up on the inside


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

That was a roofer's fix?


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

shoot the designer... use him/her as filler.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

nice huh?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tomstruble said:


> nice huh?


That was the word I was looking for.:laughing:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

well she said the guy was a roofer...i don't belive it:no:


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## apehangeralfy (Oct 26, 2008)

I can almost here the guy that did that abortion cayin' that he's been roofin' for 30 years... rootin' tootin' weave valley yee haw!!!!!!


Mod-bit and some common sense would have prevented the entire debacle, now cause of the weaved valleys you need to pull the whole mess apart.

Roofing cement works better on the bottom side of the shingles!!!!!


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

apehangeralfy said:


> I can almost here the guy that did that abortion cayin' that he's been roofin' for 30 years... rootin' tootin' weave valley yee haw!!!!!!


Haha. LOL :laughing:


We have one just like this to do Tom, but instead of a hip, it's a wall. It costs alot of money to fix other people's F up's and homeowners hate to hear that. Been waiting on a call for this job for 6 months now. Still hasn't been fixed because it just leaks into his garage......:no:

Thanks for sharing the pics.


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

Roofing for 30 years or 3 years as soon as the guy placed ridge cap in a fashion that blocks the "dead valley" from draining freely he should have stopped and called for help.
Looks like a lot more going on in those pic's than just the poor hip detail tho.

The hip&ridge detail is simple, you weave the ridge cap into the field shingles on the "cricket/saddle/dead valley side, probably the first three would do but sometimes four or five are needed.
That way your water tight on that side and still have continuous hip&ridge on that outside which is the side most viewable from the ground.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Sly
do you think this is ''fixable'' without any modification of the valley itself?


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## carpenter72 (Dec 6, 2009)

If you dont bring up the saddle atleast to the height of the hip, you know that the waters gonna sit there and just keep finding its way in. Take the time to do it right, and the homeowner will hopefully pay you fair price for the project. Not an easy quick job.:no:


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

carpenter72 said:


> If you dont bring up the saddle atleast to the height of the hip, you know that the waters gonna sit there and just keep finding its way in. Take the time to do it right, and the homeowner will hopefully pay you fair price for the project. Not an easy quick job.:no:


I agree. Looks like the framing was wrong on that cricket/saddle and it just got worse from there. The valley looks pretty self explanatory to me.


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

tomstruble said:


> Sly
> do you think this is ''fixable'' without any modification of the valley itself?


No, sorry I gave that impression.
My comment was about how to do it right the first time, if I was called out to the repair I would remove all of the low sloped portion and enough of the steeper portion to get a solid tie-in as well as replace any of the above or lower valleys that have been gunked with roof cement.
That's going by what I noticed in the photos, if I was there inspecting it in person maybe I would suggest more work, can't really see the full extend of work needed from photos.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

carpenter72 said:


> Not an easy quick job.:no:


 

i never get an easy one


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

When are the leaks happening? Are you 100% sure it's not a phantom leak caused by condensation. Most likely not, but it is a chance. 

I'd have done the pocket area with 4 ply 20-year modified bitumen which would have prevented that fiasco in the first place. However is there no ice shield in the woven valley? I'm a fan of closed cut, and with a properly installed valley and some ice shield that should stop all leaks. 

As for the hip and valley meeting, that's just a bad design and I concur with who ever recommended to shoot the designer. How many of these new construction prints do I get that leave me scratching my head. Looks good on paper, but then again so does everything, even communism.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

tomstruble said:


> i never get an easy one


Anyone can do the EZ jobs, it's the tricky ones where you earn your salt, and can Gross more profit using 2 men to do a repair than you could 5 men replacing a simple ranch roof. The tricky ones have less compitition. 

I never get the ez ones either with so many handy men slapping roof cement or caulk and calling it a fix for $100. So I stick with the tricky ones. I just submitted a bid today to remove and reattch a scupper, rework a pocket area like the one above but with 4 valleys all draining into one pocket, and of coarse the shingle tie-ins and my price was between $3,500 and $4,000 (you do the math). It's less than 4 squares total. But if I am going to do it, I am going to make money, and a tricky job like that means I have to spend a good ammount of MY own time on the job to ensure it gets done right. If I am spending time on the job that means I can't be out generating more revenue bidding and selling roof replacements. Someone's got to pay me for my time, therefore the profit margin needs to be increased on a tricky job vs a simple job.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Grumpy
so your saying mod bit the low pitch,and leave the hip intersection as it is?How would you handle the opposite side? where would you start your first rdge cap? How would you transition where the shingles stop and mod bit begins?


thanks for the help everybody:thumbsup:


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

No No, you mis understood. I am not at all saying to leave the hip as is. 

The modified bitumen would actually wrap over the hip therfore the lower, maybe, 1'-2' of hip shingles would not be needed and the transition would be nearly seamless. 

The lower valley should be repaired first. I'd tear the whole thing out, ice shield it up to the base of the pocket and reshingle up to the base of the pocket where the pocket and hip meet. With me so far?

Then I'd tear up the roof in the pocket and at least 3' up the roof slope on both sides of the pocket. Then I would install a layer of glass base half lapped 18" exposures so that the base is woven into a double layer. I'd install a torch applied smooth modified bitumen, and over that install a torch applied granulated modified bitumen. 20 year roof spec right there.

The torch applied modified bitumen would overlap the shingles no less than 3" at the base and over the hip. I am not a fan at all of adhering mod bit to shingles but the only alternative in this case is to first bend some custom metal and seal the mod bit to the metal and have the metal overlapping the shingles, perhaps with ice shield beneath the metal sealed to the shingles. I take it on a case by case basis which method I use and although I normally prefer the edge metal, this is such a tricky detail that it'd be more fool proof and less likely to fail to simply adhere the mod bit directly to the shingles. The key would be to first sweep away any loose granuals where the adhesion would be to take place, and apply a liberal coating of asphalt primer in the same area, then allow the primer to dry/cure.

Then since I tore up 3' in each direction of the valley pocket, I would seal the top edge of the modified bitumen with ice shield, making sure the ice shield is wrapped beneath the existing felt paper, and shingle down approximatly 18" so that there is plus or minus 18" from the base of the valley to the bottom of the shingles.

Does that all make sense? Sorry I know it can be confusing explaining installation instructions w/o pictures.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

no Grumpy,i got it:thumbsup: your the man, thanks for your time and the details:thumbup:


homeowner says its been leaking for a very long time,but it leaking like a sieve now,she says it only leaks when it raining:jester:when i questioned her trying to determine if maybe it was condensation,probably has that problem as well im thinking

its all cathedral inside:sad:


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