# The DOT



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I met a farmer today who told me the horror story of going to a sale in Dallas to buy a scissor lift to build his own barn. Drove his 3/4 ton pickup with farm tags and a flat trailer also with a farm tag and was heading back and went by the scale house...they pulled him over, made him turn around, and then detained him until he had the proper permits to haul a personal piece of equipment. Texas doesn't believe that a farmer can own a scissor lift. 

Ended up costing him thousands...he would have been way better off by having it shipped up. 

I hear Texas is a great place to live, but I ain't heading there anytime soon with my truck.


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

Red Adobe said:


> TXDoT started harrasing Racers pulling enclosed trailers if they had car numbers or sponsor signage on the truck or trailer.


I can't speak for everywhere, but that's been going on here for years. And by placing "not for hire" lettering on the truck, they only became a bigger target. The law's justification is that most racers spend ten's, even hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on their sport, and then operate as a business, writing all of the loss off. The law also defines the prize purse as earnings, so technically, you could say they're operating commercial vehicles...........


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

Joasis said:


> The rules have been changing. Combination weight is now 10k, and single vehicles with hydraulic brakes are still 26k, unless it is for hire or a company vehicle.
> 
> You are correct in a way..the rules you believe are correct used to be correct, but no longer, and fighting to clarify will get you a ticket or worse. By strict definition, a commercial license is required if you are being paid to drive a company vehicle....if you are hourly and the boss tells you to drive to the job site, technically, a commercial license is required.


You're confusing DOT requirements with CDL requirements.

Anti-wingnut is correct on the requirements for combos, it's still 26K AND the trailer in tow HAS to be over 10K. Hydraulic brakes or air have nothing to due to CDL requirements also, there's a ton of under CDL trucks with air brakes that operate completely legal everyday.........


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## mski (Apr 4, 2013)

PA has basically the same law. Went into effect last year I believe. Any "commercial" vehicle over 10k needs DOT numbers and the driver needs all the paper work.
There are a couple townships in my area that will bust balls but most dont. There are plenty of contractor trucks w/o DOT numbers that are over 10k without trailers.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

jomama said:


> You're confusing DOT requirements with CDL requirements.
> 
> Anti-wingnut is correct on the requirements for combos, it's still 26K AND the trailer in tow HAS to be over 10K. Hydraulic brakes or air have nothing to due to CDL requirements also, there's a ton of under CDL trucks with air brakes that operate completely legal everyday.........


You need to read up and get current, unless it doesn't apply to you. Air brakes is an endorsement, and 26k is still the single vehicle weight, and over 10k in any combination that is considered commercial is the cut off, here and now, in Oklahoma. 

Buy a dump truck here, and say you tag it for 20k, and you think because it has air brakes, you are exempt? Wrong....you cannot operate any commercial vehicle with air brakes without the endorsement, and the endorsement is not offered on a simple driver's license. 

The rules vary from state to state as well...Brundage Bone, our concrete pump company, can legally run their 32 meter boom in Oklahoma, but cross into Kansas or Missouri, they are illegal due to scaling of axles and gross weight.

The BS of the CDL and DOT was sold to the states as a way to end restrictive state laws that were punishing interstate trucking, and has now evolved into a revenue generating nightmare..... :thumbsup:


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

Joasis said:


> You need to read up and get current, unless it doesn't apply to you. Air brakes is an endorsement,
> 
> Actually, it IS NOT an endorsement, never has been. There's only 5 "Endorsements", and air brakes isn't one of them. It is, however, a restriction if you test fro a CDL in a vehicle w/o air brakes....
> 
> ...


While I don't disagree that it can be used as a revenue generator, and the laws can be overbearing at times, I also can't imagine if we put no restrictions at all on commercial vehicles..........


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

You are correct about the endorsement...per say. Instead of looking at CDL requirements in Oklahoma, take a look at searching for proposed notices of rulemaking and see what is coming. And my point remains....the rules are changing, and interpretation is changing, and standing on the side of the road debating whether you are legal or not will cost you a boatload of cash. Period. 

I have held a commercial license since I turned 18, and there have been changes to the air brake rules, besides who can adjust them, so you are correct...but, I have yet to see a truck with air brakes operated privately yet...except I suppose huge motor coaches.


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## TLP (Jun 17, 2013)

As soon as I got my DOT # online I got a call the very next day starting @ 8am from lots companies wanting to test me for drugs and alcohol and they won't leave me alone to a point I can't stop drinking to pass the CDL. Reading this thread makes we wanna drink more! :wallbash::drink:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

*You operate a motor vehicle with a GVWR, gross combination weight rating (GCWR), gross vehicle weight (GVW), or gross combination weight (GCW) of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more in interstate commerce.*

So, to clarify, if you are crossing state lines, the deciding factor would be "commerce", and the idea of "commercial" could be a loser. 

It was explained to me that commerce and commercial are one and the same, and in Oklahoma, regardless of what you located online, the enforcement is now focused on the 10k. Can we beat it? maybe.......but at what expense? 

I have looked for 15 minutes, and the air brake endorsement of the past is not there, maybe because it was unique to this state, but here: 


2013 Oklahoma CDL License Requirements
Oklahoma CDL Class A License
cdl combination endorsement practice test

Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.


Example – Tractor trailer, Double trailer, or triple trailer combination.
Tests required to pass - General knowledge test, Combination endorsement test, *and the Air brakes test.*

Oklahoma announced higher fees for licenses with the purpose of hiring more officers to enforce the law for "safety" and of course, write more tickets to create more revenue to hire more officers.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Joasis said:


> Oklahoma announced higher fees for licenses with the purpose of hiring more officers to enforce the law for "safety" and of course, write more tickets to create more revenue to hire more officers.


I guess educating the public is out of the question :blink:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

DOT and State Troopers have been busting everyone around here. Most guys are taking their signs/lettering off their trucks. I was running with magnets and even then they harass you so i pulled them. One of my buddies just got 8 tickets and the cop was feeling nice and let him go. He runs a ECSB Duramax lettered for his business, was towing a 16' enclosed trailer registered for 7k lbs and the trailer is not lettered. He was ticketed for no log book, no fire extinguisher, emergency break away not attached properly, no DOT numbers, no mirror on the top corner of the trailer, items on the bed not strapped down, no mud flaps "aftermarket tires/wheels were past the wheel well opening" and trailer inspection had lapsed. The State is out hot and heavy for tickets, they are broke and need their money!


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## kubie (Oct 19, 2008)

really a med card?

http://www.slideshare.net/Bud2009/pickup-truck-needs-dot-compliance


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Once they tighten the noose, then nothing will go back to what we used to consider fair. Done in the name of safety, all they are really doing is funding their operations, and justifying their actions....like who will argue that they are not helping save lives? 

Yes, we need regulation to a degree on the roads.....but, that said, when is it apparent that these agencies are simply becoming parasites on business?


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## BAREIN (Dec 26, 2007)

Some of the rules are dumb. The company that my wife works for had to get rid of all their f450's and go to 2500HD's for the 10000 rule. Because they cross a hour into ILL, They would have had to kept Log books and had working restrictions just like truck drivers, even though they just use them to get to work. So instead of running a light load on a 450, they are now probably running overweight or close with the 2500's....


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

And...not to mention safety?

When I used to pull my Belshi equipment trailer hauling our scissor lifts, or forklift, I was on a tandem axle/dual wheel configuration, 10k axles with brakes and pulled by a dually one ton, with enough stability to handle the load. 

Now contractors are getting by with bumper pull trailers, or GN's with 7k axles and single wheels, pulled by 3/4 ton pick-ups, or even half tons, and any blow out could result in a loss of control, and risk to others on the road......

So in the DOT wisdom.....lets force everyone to either pay the added fees, inspections, and regulations and expenses for their brand of safety, or scale back the vehicles to fly under their radar.....or hire your hauling done....or get out of business. All of this adds cost to our clients ultimately. 

Yep...great plan. Drive up costs or make it really safe with over loaded pickups.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

As I've said MANY times before, it's not about safety. It's all about revenue generation!


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## THW (Jun 19, 2013)

Chris Johnson said:


> I guess educating the public is out of the question :blink:


On a related note, this might be a dumb question, but does anyone know of a place you can definitively get answers from?

Say, a consulting service or legal firm that specializes in DOT regs?

I get different answers from my accountant, lawyer, and insurance agent and I really don't think any of them actually know.

I have tried to read the regs myself but I can't figure out the legaleze of what actually applies to me. I am in Mass and we are the same as all the federal regs as I understand it.


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## RichVT (Feb 28, 2009)

Reminds me of when I lived in New York State. In order to drive on the parkways there, you had to register your truck or van as a passenger vehicle. Problem was, nobody could definitively tell you what was required in order to do that. If you asked ten different people, you would get ten different answers.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

THW said:


> On a related note, this might be a dumb question, but does anyone know of a place you can definitively get answers from?
> 
> .


If you register a DOT number, they will find you, but expect to be overwhelmed with the offers.

I spoke to one in CT that does this, I can't find the name, if i come across it I will post it


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## THW (Jun 19, 2013)

Pearce Services said:


> If you register a DOT number, they will find you, but expect to be overwhelmed with the offers.
> 
> I spoke to one in CT that does this, I can't find the name, if i come across it I will post it


Well I think I need a DOT number and a Med Card. I have pretty much everything else I think. But really don't want to have to go through this like you did if I don't have to.


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

woodchuck2 said:


> DOT and State Troopers have been busting everyone around here. Most guys are taking their signs/lettering off their trucks. I was running with magnets and even then they harass you so i pulled them. One of my buddies just got 8 tickets and the cop was feeling nice and let him go. He runs a ECSB Duramax lettered for his business, was towing a 16' enclosed trailer registered for 7k lbs and the trailer is not lettered. He was ticketed for no log book, no fire extinguisher, emergency break away not attached properly, no DOT numbers, no mirror on the top corner of the trailer, items on the bed not strapped down, no mud flaps "aftermarket tires/wheels were past the wheel well opening" and trailer inspection had lapsed. The State is out hot and heavy for tickets, they are broke and need their money!


They are def. out of control around here. I am still under 10k with my f250 and 7x14 but I am all lettered up on both. I know all their spots and avoid them like the plague.


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## kubie (Oct 19, 2008)

blackbear said:


> They are def. out of control around here. I am still under 10k with my f250 and 7x14 but I am all lettered up on both. I know all their spots and avoid them like the plague.


really? how?

isnt it based on gross vehicle weight? 

f250 has to be at least 8000 lbs and the trailer at least 4000 lbs if not 7000 lbs.


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

I thought it goes by actual weight? Oh boy


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

blackbear said:


> I thought it goes by actual weight? Oh boy


NY goes by maximum registered gross vehicle weight in determining if your hassle-able....


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

kubie said:


> really? how?
> 
> isnt it based on gross vehicle weight?
> 
> f250 has to be at least 8000 lbs and the trailer at least 4000 lbs if not 7000 lbs.


YUP, 10k combined if your in business. BS if you ask me. You take a 8k lb F-250 lettered for business towing a sled bed with two snowmobiles and you risk being over. My buddy got in this argument with the State trooper and i have since talked to several of them. Some say it is truck plus 10k but most say 10k combined. Yet Joe Blow can hop in his new Eco Boost towing a trailer registered for 9900 lbs and stick a mini-ex on the back and head right for home with it and it is legal. Try this in front of a trooper with a lettered truck and out comes the fine book. I have asked some of my Sheriff buddies who have taken the DOT trainings about just the truck loaded with the 10k rule. Even they claim a lettered F-250 CCLB with just six fully grown men can be pushing the 10k lb limit and they too feel it is BS. I even asked about my Duramax and where i stood with the law when the plow is on and i have the sander loaded, how the jaws hit the floor when i told them i am grossing around 14k lbs with just the truck.

And then you have the motor homes. How many motor homes do we see running at least 20k lbs and have a truck in tow behind them if not at least a car or SUV? Or better yet that old fella who just bought a 45' motor home with his 28' boat behind him, yup over 70' long but no harassment.


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