# Markup on Materials?



## kubie

great topic btw:thumbsup:

i enjoy reading topics like this and gain a lot of much need information as i feel i am not marking up cost of materials enough.

on that note... heres another read on the subject http://www.markupandprofit.com/blog/?p=157&cpage=1#comments


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## TheItalian204

SSC said:


> @jasonservices
> 
> Do you know what your overhead amount is?
> 
> I myself only submit one number -the final price. There usually is no questioning then


I second that...I NEVER EVER break down my material, labor, profit, or ovehead cost.

Its not customer's concern.

They only concern is to cut me my deposit,progress and final as long as job is up to their par.

I can be buying my mortar at 100$ bag for all they know.


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## gastek

480sparky said:


> $0.00 to $0.49 x 6
> $0.50 to $0.99 x 5.75
> $1.00 to $1.49 x 5.5
> $1.50 to $1.99 x 5.25
> $2.00 to $2.49 x 5
> $2.50 to $2.99 x 4.75
> $3.00 to $3.99 x 4.5
> $4.00 to $4.99 x 4.375
> $5.00 to $5.99 x 4.25
> $6.00 to $6.99 x 4.125
> $7.00 to $7.99 x 4
> $8.00 to $8.99 x 3.75
> $9.00 to $9.99 x 3.625
> $10.00 to $19.99 x 3.5
> $20.00 to $29.99 x 3.375
> $30.00 to $39.99 x 3.25
> $40.00 to $49.99 x 3.125
> $50.00 to $59.99 x 3
> $60.00 to $69.99 x 2.75
> $70.00 to $79.99 x 2.625
> $80.00 to $89.99 x 2.5
> $90.00 to $99.99 x 2.333
> $100.00 to $139.99 x 2.25
> $140.00 to $169.99 x 2.166
> $170.00 to $199.99 x 2
> $200.00 to $239.99 x 1.855
> $240.00 to $269.99 x 1.823
> $270.00 to $299.99 x 1.789
> $300.00 to $349.99 x 1.75
> $350.00 to $399.99 x 1.725
> $400.00 to $499.99 x 1.6875
> $500.00 to $749.99 x 1.6
> $750.00 to $999.99 x 1.55
> $1,000.00 to $1,499.99 x 1.5
> $1,500.00 to $1,999.99 x 1.45
> $2,000.00 to $2,999.99 x 1.4
> $3,000.00 to $4,999.99 x 1.35
> $5,000.00 to $9,999.99 x 1.3375
> $10,000.00 to $24,999.99 x 1.3333
> $25,000.00 to $49,999.99 x 1.33
> $50,000.00 to $99,999.99 x 1.3


After looking at this, I'm doing pretty good. Now If I could only find customers that won't keep saying "Wow, that's alot of money you're charging." BTW, this is a great thread and I have learned a few more things.


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## go dart

Everend said:


> We do handyman and small remodeling work. Our company policy is to mark up all material purchases that can be directly tied to a customer by 30%. Overall this is working pretty well for covering the cost of all materials including the misc ones we don't directly bill. For example: I bill the customer my cost of the disposal + 30%. The markup covers cost of towels and any other misc materials I may need, like a new seal or even new drain pipe (if I have one on the truck). It also covers my risk and carrying cost of paying for their materials at the start of the job and not being paid for the job until some time later.
> The problem is that from time to time, I have a customer who questions the cost of the materials. They see $113.88 for the materials and then challenge my invoice or bid with "I can buy a disposal at HD for $99, why do you charge me $113.88". Sometimes it is easy to justify the difference, other times it's not. Either way, by the time the customer asks the question, their opinion of me is already tarnished. Other times it is difficult to justify, for example, last week I bid for new blinds throughout a house. My cost for materials was about $500 then the 30% markup of $150. While she did question me on the cost of the blinds, I was able to accurately communicate to her the blinds I would supply were a much higher quality than the HD's entry level blinds. In this way I was able to avoid the markup question but this would be an example where I would have a hard time justifying the markup to the customer. Especially in this case too I would not want the customer to go buy them on her own for me to install because if she buys the wrong size then I have to spend extra time/trips to the house for her mistake.
> 
> Questions:
> 1) How much do you mark up for all materials?
> 2) How do you communicate this to the customer in a way that prevents needing to justify your materials price?
> 
> thanks


Reading your post it almost seems you feel guilty about marking up materials and if your not confident in what your doing it always shows. Listen you deserve a PROFIT. Tell yourself this every morning. Best formula for jobs under $15000.00 is materials + labor x 1.67 = sell price. Pricing materials seperate from labor invites problems. Sell more and bid less.


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## kubie

hers something thats gives you an idea on how much/day you should make. depending on your goals/how much you want to make ect.

just something i stumbled across
http://www.nppa.org/professional_development/business_practices/cdb/cdbcalc.cfm


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## 480sparky

PS0303 said:


> ...... Now If I could only find customers that won't keep saying "Wow, that's alot of money you're charging." ........


People who have never contemplated being in business are the ones most likely to say this. They are the ones who cannot comprehend what it takes to get into, and stay, in business. They think since you used to work for Fly-By-Night Construction for $25/hour, you should be charging (maybe, at best!) just $30/hour to be in business. Then you just add your material cost on top of that, and that's all they need to pay. 

Sadly, there's a lot of out-of-work and laid-off people out there who also believe this is an ideal business model. Here's a story I like to tell about this:

Years ago, Joe Sixpack got a job as a helper for Fly-By-Night Electric. He started out working with a journeyman wiring houses for Cut Corners Construction. Joe turned out to be a pretty good electrician, learning fast and working hard. As the years went by, Joe got pretty good at wiring houses. Soon, he was running the jobs himself, and had his own helper.

Then recently, Joe got to thinking. "Fly-By-Night charges Cut Corners ten grand to wire a house. I know I get paid about $1500, and my helper gets $1000. I know the material costs around $2500.......... so that means the boss is making five grand just sitting at the office endorsing checks!"

So Joe decides to strike out on his own. "Man, this'll be great! I'll charge just $7000 to wire the houses, and with only $2500 in material, I'll pocket $4500 for each house I do....... Jeez, that's more than three times what I was making for 'the man'!"

So Joe hangs out his shingle. . He doesn't have any health insurance, thinking he'll get that later when things really get started. Suddenly, he realizes he needs to be licensed. So he takes the test, and spends more money for the test and license. He also doesn't understand that driving his own truck costs money, both in gas, repairs, insurance, etc.

All fired up, he gets his first job for Cut Corners. Right from the start, Cut Corners wants a current liability insurance certificate. So Joe forks out $3000 for insurance. A few weeks later, he gets a letter from the state saying he's not a registered contractor. So another $600 is spent. Oh, yea, the city says they need $950 for a permit.

A few days into the first job, Cut Corners says they need temporary power. Joe didn't figure the cost of a temp pole into the job, but he builds one and gets it hooked up. Joe finds out he needs more than a 3/8" drill and 4-foot stepladder. So he goes out and buys more cords and a couple ladders. Every time Joe needs material or another tool, he'd drive down to Home Depot and whip out the plastic. Pretty soon, he realizes he's a couple days behind schedule. 

Why? He's working alone, and doesn't have his old helper with him.

So Joe starts working 12-hours days, and a couple Saturdays as well. He skips his daughter's dance recital, and misses his son's Little League game. He comes home dirty, tired and grouchy, which cause his family to stay away from him.

By the time the house is roughed in, his credit card is maxed out and Joe needs to borrow money from his parents. "Just until I get this job done, then I'll be rolling in dough" he tells them. He borrows even more money just to buy the material he needs to trim the house. By this time, he has alienated his family and taken his credit rating down below 400.

And the sad truth is, by the time job is done, he's been paid only $7000 and has spent $14000 just to 'be in business'. So he tells Cut Corners the next job will be $8500, thinking he can 'make it up' on the future work. But even that 'extra' $1500 'from the next job' won't cover his $7000 shortfall. Besides, Cut Corners won't hire him again because Joe caused them to get behind on their schedule. And to add insult to injury, they found someone else to do the job for less.

Dejected, Joe goes home, only to find a letter from the IRS saying they want $1250 for the income tax Joe owes from that job. The state also wants $675 for sales tax. All the 'profit' Joe thought he was going to make went to pay his bills, leaving nothing to pay his parents back with.

And who did Cut Corners hire to wire their next house? Joe's old helper from Fly-By-Night!


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## mehtwo

PS0303 said:


> After looking at this, I'm doing pretty good. Now If I could only find customers that won't keep saying "Wow, that's alot of money you're charging." BTW, this is a great thread and I have learned a few more things.


When I used to be a service plumber for a plumbing company, I told customers that:

1. When you call the phone number on the side of my van, the wages of the person the answer the phone have to be paid. The person, that handles all of *your* warranty work and billing, needs to be paid.

2. The purchase and maintenance of our trucks, so we can make it to your door on time and professionally, need to be covered.

3. A lot of times their phone book was still opened to our ad in our yellow pages. I'd tell them "Guess what? That big ad(in 2003) is $600 a month."

4. Our nicely pressed uniforms and jeans come at a cost. We would rather be professional and clean as a symbol of how we care about you and your patronage.

A lot of customers would then shift gears and thank us for being trustworthy, honoring our warranty, and caring about them. Like the above posters have said, it all comes at a price.


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## MKGC

I've got a scenario to run by everyone.... This happened to me just yesterday... 
I am in the process of starting a basement for a guy... Just framing and drywall... He is going to insulate, run the electric and paint ( I hate piecing stuff out like that but that's a different topic I guess)

When I gave the guy a price he came back with " just give me a labor price. I'll get materials" ... Which I also hate.
He realized that contractors use markup on materials and wanted to save money...
So here is how my day went
I only brought one helper with me for this job and we arrived at 7:45am because the customer told me material would be there.. It wasn't . Now if I had provided material ( at only 20% markup btw as is my norm) I would have had my vendor ( a lumber yard I deal with 7 days a week) following me to the job and we wouldve been off and running.
We wait... And we clean out the area we are supposed to work in(which was supposed to be done) and we wait...and we talk about all the other stuff he wants me to give hive a price on ... And we wait ... And we go to lunch ... And we wait 
So the truck finally comes at about 1:30pm! And here's the kicker.. It has the 100 2x4s I needed but ALSO had 50 sheets of plywood for another one of his projects .. 60 6x6s... And two tons of wood pellets and I'm expected to unload all this.. Put it were he wants it and pay my helper $22 an hour for all this time!?!

Then, and by this time the HO has left, we have to carry all our lumber to the basement navigating tiny hallways and 3 even tinier kids and a less than helpful babysitter which seemed to take forever...
Now on top of all the other BS, to me when someone says " just give me a labor price and I'll have the stuff here and u can just go to work" it means it's there in basement ready to go..: thats something I should have discussed with him at the beginning so I will probably eat that time but does anyone think I'm in the wrong if I present him witha bill for the rest of our wasted day? I mean if I was there alone it would suck bad enough but In this case I'm not only not making money, I'm paying help to do nothing!


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## BamBamm5144

I would never put myself in this situation but I would send a bill for the day for my labor rate of $70 a hour per guy and then kindly let him know to find another contractor.


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## MKGC

BamBamm5144 said:


> I would never put myself in this situation but I would send a bill for the day for my labor rate of $70 a hour per guy and then kindly let him know to find another contractor.


I like that idea! ... When u say u wouldn't put yourself in that position what would u do? Tell the guy you'd provide material or not take the job? ... That's what I'm debating on Doing for the future


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## summithomeinc

MKGC said:


> I've got a scenario to run by everyone.... This happened to me just yesterday...
> I am in the process of starting a basement for a guy... Just framing and drywall... He is going to insulate, run the electric and paint ( I hate piecing stuff out like that but that's a different topic I guess)
> 
> When I gave the guy a price he came back with " just give me a labor price. I'll get materials" ... Which I also hate.
> He realized that contractors use markup on materials and wanted to save money...
> So here is how my day went
> I only brought one helper with me for this job and we arrived at 7:45am because the customer told me material would be there.. It wasn't . Now if I had provided material ( at only 20% markup btw as is my norm) I would have had my vendor ( a lumber yard I deal with 7 days a week) following me to the job and we wouldve been off and running.
> We wait... And we clean out the area we are supposed to work in(which was supposed to be done) and we wait...and we talk about all the other stuff he wants me to give hive a price on ... And we wait ... And we go to lunch ... And we wait
> So the truck finally comes at about 1:30pm! And here's the kicker.. It has the 100 2x4s I needed but ALSO had 50 sheets of plywood for another one of his projects .. 60 6x6s... And two tons of wood pellets and I'm expected to unload all this.. Put it were he wants it and pay my helper $22 an hour for all this time!?!
> 
> Then, and by this time the HO has left, we have to carry all our lumber to the basement navigating tiny hallways and 3 even tinier kids and a less than helpful babysitter which seemed to take forever...
> Now on top of all the other BS, to me when someone says " just give me a labor price and I'll have the stuff here and u can just go to work" it means it's there in basement ready to go..: thats something I should have discussed with him at the beginning so I will probably eat that time but does anyone think I'm in the wrong if I present him witha bill for the rest of our wasted day? I mean if I was there alone it would suck bad enough but In this case I'm not only not making money, I'm paying help to do nothing!


I would have left and told the ho whenb the materials are in the basement where I need them, with everything out of the way call me. OR I can stay and wait for the materials but that will be xx/hr per person. It pisses them off but usually they understand you can't wait around for free. However, If you allready waited around and did extra work without exolaing the situatiuon and the billing I think you may have a hard time getting paid extra.


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## MKGC

Yeah if there's one flaw I have( and I'm sure there's many) it would be in such situations I tend to want to be the nice guy and don't usually step up and put my foot down and say "NO... Not unless you pay me extra" .... Then I feel like I've been taken advantage of and the only onethat loses is me! :-/ ... Gotta quite that stuff.. Lol


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## BamBamm5144

MKGC said:


> I like that idea! ... When u say u wouldn't put yourself in that position what would u do? Tell the guy you'd provide material or not take the job? ... That's what I'm debating on Doing for the future


When you showed up and there were no materials you should have asked him when they will be delivered and when they will be where you need them so you can work efficiently.

Luckily for me, the products I install can't be bought in big box stores and my supplier would charge a HO more than I would charge the HO.

I would probably just tell him that I cannot warranty any materials on products I did not provide.


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## summithomeinc

MKGC said:


> Yeah if there's one flaw I have( and I'm sure there's many) it would be in such situations I tend to want to be the nice guy and don't usually step up and put my foot down and say "NO... Not unless you pay me extra" .... Then I feel like I've been taken advantage of and the only onethat loses is me! :-/ ... Gotta quite that stuff.. Lol


Will you come help me clean out my storage building? should only take a day..Oh and I want you to do it free...You say no? But why? You're doing alot of work for others for free. Why won't you work for free for me? It has nothing to do with being nice. It has to do with paying your bills. When you worked for someone else they paid you for every minute you were on the job, right?(at least they should have)
So why is it not being "nice" asking to be paid for your work?


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## svronthmve

My mortgage & utility companies don't take "nice" as payments!


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## DuFast

I don't mark up unless I'm paying less than they could buy it for I couldn't justify marking up something that the customer can go out and pay a lower price for.


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## 480sparky

DuFast said:


> I don't mark up unless I'm paying less than they could buy it for I couldn't justify marking up something that the customer can go out and pay a lower price for.


So you increase your labor rate. Same thing.


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## DuFast

480sparky said:


> So you increase your labor rate. Same thing.


Nope.


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## TNTRenovate

BamBamm5144 said:


> When you showed up and there were no materials you should have asked him when they will be delivered and when they will be where you need them so you can work efficiently.
> 
> Luckily for me, the products I install can't be bought in big box stores and my supplier would charge a HO more than I would charge the HO.
> 
> I would probably just tell him that I cannot warranty any materials on products I did not provide.


That's what I do, I tell them no warranty on products that are not purchased from me.


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## TNTRenovate

Here's my take. If I give someone a price including all materials, and they come back and want labor only. All that I remove is my cost on the materials. I then tell them that if there are any delays, such as the one you experienced, I will charge a full day @ x per hour for every guy on site. They usually tell me to go ahead and order the materials. There is no way that I am going to make it cheaper for them to purchase the materials.


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## 480sparky

DuFast said:


> Nope.



So, you pay $100 for materials, charge $100 for said materials, and work for wages?


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## barry1219

Here is the reason that I mark up AND charge time for handling materials...

 ********* *7-9% of the cost of any job is handling materials!!!!!.. *********

* This is a fact and one that has to be figured in as a COST and if not you will soon be paying your customer to provide the materials for his job. We are businessmen as well as skilled contractors. Keep thinking like a contractor when dealing with the business side of our business and you will be soon looking for work from a contractor who didn't.*


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## MKGC

All great points guys thanks!! To be honest , when I was a one man band stuff like this wasn't so hard to swallow. Paying guys to stand around, plus taking time away from other jobsites hurts tho!! Trying to grow my company has some learning experiences and this is a big one. I won't get stuck like this again! Thanks again!!


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## DuFast

480sparky said:


> So, you pay $100 for materials, charge $100 for said materials, and work for wages?


Usually have them make a charge account at our local lumber yard then whatever I need I charge it to them.


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## 480sparky

DuFast said:


> Usually have them make a charge account at our local lumber yard then whatever I need I charge it to them.


No, not a _charge _account at your supplier..... _charge _your customer exactly what you pay for them.


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## DuFast

Like if I have to get it somewhere else? In that case I'd just attatch the receipt to the bill or just write the amount on there.


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## TNTRenovate

DuFast said:


> Like if I have to get it somewhere else? In that case I'd just attatch the receipt to the bill or just write the amount on there.


That's what Sparky's saying, you would charge your customer exactly what you were charged for the material.


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## 480sparky

DuFast said:


> Like if I have to get it somewhere else? In that case I'd just attatch the receipt to the bill or just write the amount on there.


I'm saying: When you purchase $100 of material, your customer is paying you $100 for it.

If that's correct, then you're not making any profit.


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## katoman

I charge exactly what I pay for materials. Plus 20%. I'm the one doing the material take off, picking up, or ordering, or taking back defective materials.

I would never allow a HO to supply materials. Quite often they want to supply bath fixtures. I make sure they understand there will be no warranty on what they supply.


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## FGCC

It's just bad business to buy and sell material for the same price because like someone else mentioned, it will cost *you* money. Imagine if the supplier you are buying from bought material and sold it to you at the same price, would they still be in business? It is the same for us contractors. Keep in mind you pay tax on the income, therefore if you sell material that you bought for $100, for $100, that $100 that you receive is income, not to mention time and fuel to pick it up. Truthfully, we really did not have these problems years ago before the big box stores came into the picture, at least not that much. The suppliers years ago worked hand in hand with contractors, and would have a contractor price and home owner price. This is one of the main reasons most of my work is geared towards commercial, you deal with business people, they understand what it takes to be in business ,and not know it all homeowners.


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## kevjob

I dont work with outside vendors subs or materials period. We use different mutlipliers for markups and the starting number is x1.5 

People who think materials are the way to stick it to the contractor and save money are clueless and will pick the cheapest crappiest lumber etc....


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## summithomeinc

I have charged exactly what I paid for materials. However I charged hourly for all the time it took to get materials, load and unload. My hourly rate is alot more than the 30% I mark up materials. If you don't charge for that time and you don't mark up, you are losing money.


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## SSC

1.67 markup? Really!!!!! I thought i was charging too much

just ordered "markup and profit"


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## summithomeinc

SSC said:


> 1.67 markup? Really!!!!! I thought i was charging too much
> 
> just ordered "markup and profit"


I just about doubled my prices after reading that book. Still gettin the same amount of work. Pisses me off all the money I left on the table.


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## MKGC

Feel dumb admitting this but I've owned that book for over a year and only flipped through it and kinda forgot I had it. Noe I see everyone one here talkin about it so I'm diggin it out!


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## SSC

i payed$32 plus $8 shipping.

barnes and noble wanted $738


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## Rich D.

SSC said:


> i payed$32 plus $8 shipping.
> 
> barnes and noble wanted $738


Where did you order it?


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## TNTRenovate

summithomeinc said:


> I have charged exactly what I paid for materials. However I charged hourly for all the time it took to get materials, load and unload. My hourly rate is alot more than the 30% I mark up materials. If you don't charge for that time and you don't mark up, you are losing money.


What if it's delivered or picked and ready to load? You are getting screwed. I can order the material and have it dropped on site (in the garage), and get paid 30% markup. You wouldn't make enough to buy a Wendy's Jr. Bacon Cheeseburger.


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## summithomeinc

TNTSERVICES said:


> What if it's delivered or picked and ready to load? You are getting screwed. I can order the material and have it dropped on site (in the garage), and get paid 30% markup. You wouldn't make enough to buy a Wendy's Jr. Bacon Cheeseburger.


Of course I have it delivered. You have no clue if I am getting screwed or how much my profit is. And I don't eat at Wendy's, They suck.


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## summithomeinc

Rich D. said:


> Where did you order it?


I think I got mine for about that price at amazon if I remember right.


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## BamBamm5144

Yeah I want to know if I can go to the manufacturer plant to buy my shingles? I mean if my supplier can sell them to me at $10 a square cheaper than the big box stores, I bet I could get them from the manufacturer at $50 less than big box stores.


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## Mud Master

SSC said:


> I'm with TNT on this. Were still waiting fir specifics on where the average small business can go w/o connections and buy stuff at wholesale 30-250% discount. The quoted thread implies that anybody can do this and if your not your being foolish. Maybe Terroran will come back and elaborate.
> 
> I would love to get my acoustical ceilings at wholesale prices along w some other items


Yes, if only I could woo someone from Chicago Metallic or Armstrong...If you figure out how to do that, let me know. 

Our CMC & Armstrong ceilings just went up 30% a few months ago, with another 12% coming in the 3rd or 4th quarter. I don't even know how bad USG went up.

Oh, how I'd like to get that money back.


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## SSC

I quickly figured im paying about $2.25 per sq ft for ceiling material.

Including 1pc of F-channel and 2'x2' "dune" lay in tile, all 15/16" grid


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## KAP

TNTSERVICES said:


> KAP,
> 
> I am not sure I understand. Do I stir the pot or do I seek approval of others. I am pretty sure that one is counter produtive to the other.


Both... one is not dependent on the other...



TNTSERVICES said:


> It is foolish for you to think that the intent on you words is not meant to insult and belittle.


No, it is foolish to assume you knew my intent. If you read my words wrong, or if my words lead you to a wrong conclusion, my apologies, but I started answering you on this thread providing you resources, and if you re-read my next post it also sought to give you information you apparently don't have and are insisting by debating that is doesn't exist for everyone... it does...



TNTSERVICES said:


> My smart ass dumb ass comment was a come back, others saw it as that, and even commented in jest, as it was meant. I tried to make light of someone taking a poke at me. You however saw something you wanted to see and thus are throwing it in my face as some sort of hypocrisy. Just like you accuse me, you have an agenda.


LOL... Rob, you are the only one accusing people of having an agenda. The only time you will find a post of mine mentioning an agenda was when you accused me of it in another thread, and I then pointed out that you laid out your agenda for everyone to see in another thread, which ended up being totally wrong and a HUGE assumption on your part.

As far as "smart a**" / "dumb a**" goes, they are hardly an example of building someone up, hence my quote of yours - *"I was always told that people cut others down to make themselves feel better"*.



TNTSERVICES said:


> Back to the insults...instead of ending his post, Plummen made it personal. You have done the same.


No, I haven't... you took it that way... 



TNTSERVICES said:


> You have done the same. When asking questions, I do not attack the individual. I do not say in one hand that I don't know you, and then analyze a personality defect.


Putting aside the incredulous statement that you don't attack people, whether back-handed or openly, when I refer to I don't know you, the context was in regards to *"I know you have an issue with me"*. I don't... and as is the case with the rest of the posts, you read into it. I even pointedly told you I don't...



TNTSERVICES said:


> Again, you can't have it both ways. Either you know me or you don't. If you claim not to know me, then you cannot know that I have an ego or attitude based off of a few hundred post on the internet.


Your interactions with myself and others display it often. For example, take this thread... instead of realigning your thought process from positing that people can't buy from manufacturers and/or wholesale distributors to *"hey maybe I was wrong on that"*, especially after MULTIPLE people are telling you it can be done and even providing or being willing to provide resources (IOW, people trying to HELP), you hold on to your one perspective continuing to debate that is can't be consistently done because you don't want to be wrong. IMHO, that is ego, and it can get in your way... Don't you think it would have been better to say "hey, I didn't know that... thanks for the info!"?... :clap:



TNTSERVICES said:


> This takes me back to stirring the pot. I have heard it repeatedly that I stir the pot. So I rub some the wrong way. I am not here to please everyone. There are those on this site who have that kind of personality, I am not one of them. I like to think that I spark interesting conversation and add a bit to the site. Maybe you should look through the over 3000 posts that I have and then let me know if I am here to just stir the pot.


I never said anything about your "3000 posts", yet you keep bringing it up as if it is some sort of qualifier (again, seeking that approval), as if that has anything to do with the content of what you are writing now. I have been posting over at WoodWeb for over a decade, do my ten's of thousands of posts qualify me?  :no:

I am sure my perspective over a decade ago is different than now... as yours will most likely be... so how many posts you have is irrelevant to what you are typing today...

There is a difference between stirring the pot, and having real differing POV's... 




TNTSERVICES said:


> I'll end with this, even though you have made statements regarding my ego, inability to listen, and other faults, I still have yet to try and pick you apart or belittle you in public. I guess I could do it and just say that I am trying to help you, but again, that would be insulting to assume that I could offer you any help not really knowing you or your life.


You KNOW that is demonstrably false... Do I really need to waste time citing examples, or can you just admit you were wrong in saying that?... :no:

I don't know you personally, but I can offer help based on what you type. How you equate helping with insulting is an interesting twist of logic. If that were the case, everyone would have to know each other on CT, before they could offer help or different perspectives...



TNTSERVICES said:


> But hey, as you say, good luck! :thumbsup:


And when I say "Best of luck!"... I really mean it, even if I disagree with you... 8^)


----------



## plummen

TheItalian204 said:


> This thread starts to come down to,it does not matter what you know, but WHO you know :whistling: :laughing:


Theres lots of options out there for anything in life,it just depends how hard you want to look for them is all


----------



## plummen

SSC said:


> I'm with TNT on this. Were still waiting fir specifics on where the average small business can go w/o connections and buy stuff at wholesale 30-250% discount. The quoted thread implies that anybody can do this and if your not your being foolish. Maybe Terroran will come back and elaborate.
> 
> I would love to get my acoustical ceilings at wholesale prices along w some other items


Look in the phone book,ask around its not really complicated.
I just looked in my phone book under lumber and found a retail section and a wholesale section,took a whole 15 seconds and Im not even a carpenter


----------



## TNTRenovate

"And when I say "Best of luck!"... I really mean it, even if I disagree with you... 8^) "

KAP, sorry brother but I didn't read the whole thing.

I cannot want people to approve of me and be the one that walks around stirring the pot. People obviously have an issue with pot stirrers.

Second, you said that I go posting just to stir the pot, that would be an agenda my friend.

Third, since last night several others have taken the same position. Not sure what that means, but I do know that I am not alone in my question. :whistling

Thanks KAP for showing me that it's not an issue you have with me, seeing that you will most assuredly address all those that have posted since last night, with the same vigor you have come at me.

SCS "I'm with TNT on this."

BAM "Yeah I want to know if I can go to the manufacturer plant to buy my shingles?"

Mud MAster "if only I could woo someone from Chicago Metallic or Armstrong...If you figure out how to do that, let me know."

Waiting....


----------



## plummen

KAP said:


> Both... one is not dependent on the other...
> 
> 
> 
> No, it is foolish to assume you knew my intent. If you read my words wrong, or if my words lead you to a wrong conclusion, my apologies, but I started answering you on this thread providing you resources, and if you re-read my next post it also sought to give you information you apparently don't have and are insisting by debating that is doesn't exist for everyone... it does...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... Rob, you are the only one accusing people of having an agenda. The only time you will find a post of mine mentioning an agenda was when you accused me of it in another thread, and I then pointed out that you laid out your agenda for everyone to see in another thread, which ended up being totally wrong and a HUGE assumption on your part.
> 
> As far as "smart a**" / "dumb a**" goes, they are hardly an example of building someone up, hence my quote of yours - *"I was always told that people cut others down to make themselves feel better"*.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I haven't... you took it that way...
> 
> 
> 
> Putting aside the incredulous statement that you don't attack people, whether back-handed or openly, when I refer to I don't know you, the context was in regards to *"I know you have an issue with me"*. I don't... and as is the case with the rest of the posts, you read into it. I even pointedly told you I don't...
> 
> 
> 
> Your interactions with myself and others display it often. For example, take this thread... instead of realigning your thought process from positing that people can't buy from manufacturers and/or wholesale distributors to *"hey maybe I was wrong on that"*, especially after MULTIPLE people are telling you it can be done and even providing or being willing to provide resources (IOW, people trying to HELP), you hold on to your one perspective continuing to debate that is can't be consistently done because you don't want to be wrong. IMHO, that is ego, and it can get in your way... Don't you think it would have been better to say "hey, I didn't know that... thanks for the info!"?... :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said anything about your "3000 posts", yet you keep bringing it up as if it is some sort of qualifier (again, seeking that approval), as if that has anything to do with the content of what you are writing now. I have been posting over at WoodWeb for over a decade, do my ten's of thousands of posts qualify me?  :no:
> 
> I am sure my perspective over a decade ago is different than now... as yours will most likely be... so how many posts you have is irrelevant to what you are typing today...
> 
> There is a difference between stirring the pot, and having real differing POV's...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You KNOW that is demonstrably false... Do I really need to waste time citing examples, or can you just admit you were wrong in saying that?... :no:
> 
> I don't know you personally, but I can offer help based on what you type. How you equate helping with insulting is an interesting twist of logic. If that were the case, everyone would have to know each other on CT, before they could offer help or different perspectives...
> 
> 
> 
> And when I say "Best of luck!"... I really mean it, even if I disagree with you... 8^)


TNT:So where did I make it personal?
You said you wanted names of some of these places to get supplies at wholesale prices,I named a few and asked how long youve been in the trades.
If you consider that a personal attack you must have a really tough time dealing with people on job sites.
If I took stuff like that seriously I wouldve had to find a differant line of work 30 plus years ago! :laughing:
You were the one who answered it with long enough to know the differance between a smart ass and a dumb ass. :laughing:


----------



## TNTRenovate

plummen said:


> TNT:So where did I make it personal?
> You said you wanted names of some of these places to get supplies at wholesale prices,I named a few and asked how long youve been in the trades.
> *If you consider that a personal attack you must have a really tough time dealing with people on job sites.*
> If I took stuff like that seriously I wouldve had to find a differant line of work 30 plus years ago! :laughing:
> You were the one who answered it with long enough to know the differance between a smart ass and a dumb ass. :laughing:


What's funny is you don't even know when you are doing it.

When you asked how long I had been in the trades and followed it by a laugh, it was not a serious question but a personal attack. It was an insinuation that i must not be in the business long enough to know.

Correct, I answered back, I did not personally attack anyone in my original question. You however, when trying to answer my post, did. It was unnecessary and added nothing to the conversation. 

I didn't take it to heart and cry myself to sleep, you think too much of yourself. I doubt if a MOD came in and said that was uncalled for, you wouldn't say that they were taking it serious, just trying to keep the conversation on point and out of a negative spin.

I wonder, if like KAP, you will now direct the same responses to those that have the same question I did, or was it just easier to attack my question when it was 2 against 1?


----------



## plummen

Well if we had smiley faces on here I wouldnt have to use the little laughing guy so much! :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
I dont think too highly of myself,Ive got a lot of repeat customers over the last 30 years who seem to be happy with me though.SMILEY FACE
Ill wait till I see another person react the same way when people answer the same question,then we'll all know.SMILEY FACE


----------



## mbobbish734

TNTSERVICES said:


> What's funny is you don't even know when you are doing it.
> 
> When you asked how long I had been in the trades and followed it by a laugh, it was not a serious question but a personal attack. It was an insinuation that i must not be in the business long enough to know.
> 
> Correct, I answered back, I did not personally attack anyone in my original question. You however, when trying to answer my post, did. It was unnecessary and added nothing to the conversation.
> 
> I didn't take it to heart and cry myself to sleep, you think too much of yourself. I doubt if a MOD came in and said that was uncalled for, you wouldn't say that they were taking it serious, just trying to keep the conversation on point and out of a negative spin.
> 
> I wonder, if like KAP, you will now direct the same responses to those that have the same question I did, or was it just easier to attack my question when it was 2 against 1?


I'm not getting into this to argue with anyone...Rob. But what I find is the guys who've been doing this a lot longer than us usually have the connections. Basically in my market the carpenters that have been here longer than HD and Blowes have the connections a yards that been in business a long time and are usually hidden somewhere off the main roads. Rob do you remember when the big box stores rolled in? I do but wasn't in the trades to care before that. I remember thinking wow that's a huge store, cool. At least until I understood what was happening, now most yards are gone. But I can still get cabinets, lighting/electrical, flooring, hardware, tile and a few others heavily discounted. I just need to plan for it, if its something small or I need it now I can get from HD.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

SSC said:


> I quickly figured im paying about $2.25 per sq ft for ceiling material.
> 
> Including 1pc of F-channel and 2'x2' "dune" lay in tile, all 15/16" grid


Ouch. It might be cheaper for you you to call 9372224444 and drive to Dayton. :whistling:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

Supply houses are gearing more towards diverse inventories and high quality merchandise verses huge discounts. Having a quality product in stock is a niche they are filling around here.


----------



## KAP

I think what's getting lost in the discussion here is wholesale versus retail and buying direct from the manufacturer is the profit.

If you are buying wholesale, you are getting different pricing than the HO. For example, Columbia Forest Products sells their Pure Bond ply through HD (retail) and to the trades through their wholesale distributors. If you are buying it through HD, you are paying retail, and have to pay to have it delivered. If you are buying from their wholesale distributor, you not only get the discount, but free delivery for 5 sheets or more.

If you purchase items through HD or Lowes, if you can't find a local building supply shop, at a minimum, go through their Pro-Desk and you can indeed save money. If you are doing an addition on a house, all you need is $2500 in purchase to qualify for up to 30% off your whole order. HD has free shipping for orders of certain size, again saving you time and money, compounding what you can make. 

You may already be purchasing through a wholesale distributor, thereby getting it for less than the HO can get it for, so YOU get to the make the difference in markup. If you are able to buy something at a 20% discount off of retail, and mark it up 15%, you are still saving the customer 5% on each item... win/win... or charge them the whole 20%, what difference does it make to the HO? They can't get it for less and you are delivering it for them... You don't need to pay retail for these products... But if you don't mark-up your materials, why bother with being a middleman? Because it costs money to be a middleman, and if you are not marking up the materials, YOU are paying for part of it. It is one area where profit leaks out your bank account.

As far as manufacturers go, it all depends on what products/services you make/install, but I can tell you that you can buy from manufacturers directly. As we all serve different segments in our industry, check into Thomas Register of American Manufacturers, and MacRAE's Blue Book.

Key here is regular purchases...


----------



## KAP

TNTSERVICES said:


> "And when I say "Best of luck!"... I really mean it, even if I disagree with you... 8^) "
> 
> _*KAP, sorry brother but I didn't read the whole thing.*_
> 
> I cannot want people to approve of me and be the one that walks around stirring the pot. People obviously have an issue with pot stirrers.
> 
> Second, you said that I go posting just to stir the pot, that would be an agenda my friend.
> 
> Third, since last night several others have taken the same position. Not sure what that means, but I do know that I am not alone in my question. :whistling
> 
> Thanks KAP for showing me that it's not an issue you have with me, seeing that you will most assuredly address all those that have posted since last night, with the same vigor you have come at me.
> 
> SCS "I'm with TNT on this."
> 
> BAM "Yeah I want to know if I can go to the manufacturer plant to buy my shingles?"
> 
> Mud MAster "if only I could woo someone from Chicago Metallic or Armstrong...If you figure out how to do that, let me know."
> 
> Waiting....


Yawn... of course you didn't... :no: 

Don't worry... others did...


----------



## Mud Master

SSC said:


> I quickly figured im paying about $2.25 per sq ft for ceiling material.
> 
> Including 1pc of F-channel and 2'x2' "dune" lay in tile, all 15/16" grid


Ya know I just ran some quick numbers myself and came up with the same exact price. Now, those are budget numbers I went off of and he even said when he sent me them that these are high and will quote lower when I give him a take off.

I came up with $2.25 sqft for basic 15/16 grid, 12g wire and standard Armstrong 2x4 NDF fine fissured tile. Baroque is only slightly cheaper by about .15 square.

Add in $1.10-$2.10 for basic install and your AC just got alot higher to put in.

And were not even done with the increases. 

Yup, an inside contact sounds really good right about now.


----------



## KAP

Mud Master said:


> And were not even done with the increases.
> 
> Yup, an inside contact sounds really good right about now.


When was the last time you had a sit-down with your rep?


----------



## Mud Master

KAP said:


> When was the last time you had a sit-down with your rep?


He took me to lunch the first of January. These new budget prices came out last week.

I have a USG supplier (a subsidiary of L& W supply) but don't do a whole lot of business with them anymore so I don't know their current prices.

If I HAD to guess, and I'm just spitballing I'd guess a real quote for a project would be closer to $2.00-$2.10 sqft for the ceiling, just based on history and his concession that these spreadsheet ceiling prices were high.


----------



## BamBamm5144

Terrorron said:


> *The beauty of living/working in a place where you can purchase directly from manufacturers* and wholesale distributors (and profit from it) can not be understated.
> 
> To all of those who don't have this "perk"? You have my sympathy.
> 
> To all of those who live in a major center yet_ still _shop at a box store?
> 
> :laughing:


I am going to say it, I am with TNT on this one.

I bolded the part in which I believe he is referring to, because it is what I am basing it off of. Anyone can buy from distributors. My customers can buy from my distributor but yes, they will pay the same price I am already selling it to them for. Of course I make money on my purchases because of the amount of product I purchase from them.

What I want to know is how YOU are able to cut them out of the equation and go right to the manufacturer. I don't think I can call CertainTeed up on the phone, drive to the plant on Shakopee Minnesota and have them fill up the back of my pick up truck with shingles for half the cost I currently get them for at my supplier.

There is a huge difference between purchasing from a distributor compared to a manufacturer. If you could all purchase from manufacturers, there would be no Wal-Marts, Targets, or any retail stores.

Once again a "wholesale distributor" is different from a manufacturer. How do I get my manufacturers to sell to me directly and cut my distributor out?


----------



## plummen

Just for its and grins i went on one of those online so called hvac supply places to compare prices on a typical 13 seer 2t goodman condensing unit.
They showed a list price of $1212.40 and their price was $911.00 plus shipping,of course thats for an uncharged unit.
I can walk into any supply house here locally that stocks/sells goodman and get the same unit precharged with freon for $600.00 or less without breaking a sweat and if I talk nice theyll even deliver it for that price.
Yes there is a serious differance between retail and real wholesale pricing .SMILEY FACE


----------



## BamBamm5144

plummen said:


> Just for its and grins i went on one of those online so called hvac supply places to compare prices on a typical 13 seer 2t goodman condensing unit.
> They showed a list price of $1212.40 and their price was $911.00 plus shipping,of course thats for an uncharged unit.
> I can walk into any supply house here locally that stocks/sells goodman and get the same unit precharged with freon for $600.00 or less without breaking a sweat and if I talk nice theyll even deliver it for that price.
> *Yes there is a serious differance between retail and real wholesale pricing* .SMILEY FACE


Of course there is a difference between retail and wholesale pricing. I want to know how you get the difference between the wholesale and the manufacturer pricing!


----------



## plummen

BamBamm5144 said:


> I am going to say it, I am with TNT on this one.
> 
> I bolded the part in which I believe he is referring to, because it is what I am basing it off of. Anyone can buy from distributors. My customers can buy from my distributor but yes, they will pay the same price I am already selling it to them for. Of course I make money on my purchases because of the amount of product I purchase from them.
> 
> What I want to know is how YOU are able to cut them out of the equation and go right to the manufacturer. I don't think I can call CertainTeed up on the phone, drive to the plant on Shakopee Minnesota and have them fill up the back of my pick up truck with shingles for half the cost I currently get them for at my supplier.
> 
> There is a huge difference between purchasing from a distributor compared to a manufacturer. If you could all purchase from manufacturers, there would be no Wal-Marts, Targets, or any retail stores.
> 
> Once again a "wholesale distributor" is different from a manufacturer. How do I get my manufacturers to sell to me directly and cut my distributor out?


Depends on what youre buying and how long youve been buying it


----------



## Terrorron

TNT (etal)...

If you seriously think I'm going to jeopardize direct connections that I've _spent years cultivating_, by posting up a virtual "shopping list" of companies/contacts on the open internet, you've got another think coming. 

This is propitiatory information. "I could tell you...but then I'd have to kill you"...

:laughing:

Many of the day to day items I buy are manufactured either here (Edmonton) or in Calgary/ Vancouver. All of these manufacturers have distribution centers here in Edmonton and if you_ know how to represent yourself properly_, a good number of them are more than willing to do business. 

Some things I purchase in volume and maintain a standing inventory of. 

All it takes is the initiative to inquire about it.

They'll either say no... or they'll hand you over an app for a net 30.

Once you've got your "foot in the door" with a few companies, it becomes much easier to expand. Keep your accounts current and buy your sales rep a bottle of wine at Xmas. He'll give you a green light when the guy from XYZ manufacturing/distributing calls him for a reference on you.

I also use second party distributors like Richelieu/Onward, DalTile and the like. I have a local window manufacturer that gets all my business and the markup there is obscene (they also supply some of the local retailers).

Frankly? I can't believe some of the responses...you people have never looked into this? 

Really? :blink:


----------



## plummen

BamBamm5144 said:


> Of course there is a difference between retail and wholesale pricing. I want to know how you get the difference between the wholesale and the manufacturer pricing!


Its really easy,after 30 plus years you get to know people and get your foot in the door. SMILEY FACE


----------



## Mud Master

TNTSERVICES said:


> Sorry, should have clarified it wasn't meant for you. I think it's great that you have those connections! More power to ya. I leverage any way I can as well!


In regards to the earlier conversation, of course I would add those caveats. I didn't want to give any impression that I'm some magical wizard who can conjure up all these manufacturer direct spells. I wanted to explain how I am connected to them, which was the original question.


----------



## BamBamm5144

Can you guys answer a simple question or are you all full of BS.

How do you cut out the wholesale distributor and buy directly from the manufacturer? Do you buy enough volume or what? I would guess I would have to purchase tens of thousands bundles of shingles to be able to get my materials directly from the manufacturer.

I get my shingles at $23 a square cheaper than they sell them to homeowners for at my distributor but I want to know how to be able to get them another $40 a square cheaper from the manufacturer.

What types of materials are you purchasing? Are the manufacturers local? Why is it so hard to answer the question?


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

BamBamm5144 said:


> Can you guys answer a simple question or are you all full of BS.
> 
> How do you cut out the wholesale distributor and buy directly from the manufacturer? Do you buy enough volume or what? I would guess I would have to purchase tens of thousands bundles of shingles to be able to get my materials directly from the manufacturer.
> 
> I get my shingles at $23 a square cheaper than they sell them to homeowners for at my distributor but I want to know how to be able to get them another $40 a square cheaper from the manufacturer.
> 
> What types of materials are you purchasing? Are the manufacturers local? Why is it so hard to answer the question?


Most have non compete clauses which prohibit private sales. I think its a mute point to go and try to cut out those who offer you the service. Remember the supplier is offering more than just a product.


----------



## SSC

Terrorron said:


> TNT (etal)...
> 
> If you seriously think I'm going to jeopardize direct connections that I've _spent years cultivating_, by posting up a virtual "shopping list" of companies/contacts on the open internet, you've got another think coming.
> 
> This is propitiatory information. "I could tell you...but then I'd have to kill you"...
> 
> :laughing:
> 
> Many of the day to day items I buy are manufactured either here (Edmonton) or in Calgary/ Vancouver. All of these manufacturers have distribution centers here in Edmonton and if you_ know how to represent yourself properly_, a good number of them are more than willing to do business.
> 
> Some things I purchase in volume and maintain a standing inventory of.
> 
> All it takes is the initiative to inquire about it.
> 
> They'll either say no... or they'll hand you over an app for a net 30.
> 
> Once you've got your "foot in the door" with a few companies, it becomes much easier to expand. Keep your accounts current and buy your sales rep a bottle of wine at Xmas. He'll give you a green light when the guy from XYZ manufacturing/distributing calls him for a reference on you.
> 
> I also use second party distributors like Richelieu/Onward, DalTile and the like. I have a local window manufacturer that gets all my business and the markup there is obscene (they also supply some of the local retailers).
> 
> Frankly? I can't believe some of the responses...you people have never looked into this?
> 
> Really? :blink:


----------



## SSC

BamBamm5144 said:


> Can you guys answer a simple question or are you all full of BS.
> 
> How do you cut out the wholesale distributor and buy directly from the manufacturer? Do you buy enough volume or what? I would guess I would have to purchase tens of thousands bundles of shingles to be able to get my materials directly from the manufacturer.
> 
> I get my shingles at $23 a square cheaper than they sell them to homeowners for at my distributor but I want to know how to be able to get them another $40 a square cheaper from the manufacturer.
> 
> What types of materials are you purchasing? Are the manufacturers local? Why is it so hard to answer the question?


I think there full of BS unless they know someone personally at those places. Just called the wholesaler who supplies Marjam and they told me no. Trying to find others but there not listed


----------



## BamBamm5144

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Most have non compete clauses which prohibit private sales. I think its a mute point to go and try to cut out those who offer you the service. Remember the supplier is offering more than just a product.


I wouldn't even think about cutting out my supplier but I want to know how these guys "claim" to do it.

I have good relationships with all sort of representatives from manufacturers, doesn't mean that I buy directly from them or am even able to.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

BamBamm5144 said:


> I wouldn't even think about cutting out my supplier but I want to know how these guys "claim" to do it.
> 
> I have good relationships with all sort of representatives from manufacturers, doesn't mean that I buy directly from them or am even able to.


:thumbsup:


----------



## Mud Master

BamBamm5144 said:


> Can you guys answer a simple question or are you all full of BS.
> 
> How do you cut out the wholesale distributor and buy directly from the manufacturer? Do you buy enough volume or what? I would guess I would have to purchase tens of thousands bundles of shingles to be able to get my materials directly from the manufacturer.
> 
> I get my shingles at $23 a square cheaper than they sell them to homeowners for at my distributor but I want to know how to be able to get them another $40 a square cheaper from the manufacturer.
> 
> What types of materials are you purchasing? Are the manufacturers local? Why is it so hard to answer the question?


I don't know if this was directed at me, but I specifically states names of who I buy from and how I do. I never gave a vauge answer or dodged the question.


----------



## MSLiechty

Mud Master said:


> Yes, if only I could woo someone from Chicago Metallic or Armstrong...If you figure out how to do that, let me know.



MM We are an Armstrong direct contractor tell me what you are paying and I'll let you know how badly you are getting hosed....

For what its worth I can buy through distribution, at nearly the same price as direct, But i have the direct pricing to keep the vendor honest.


ML


----------



## MSLiechty

SSC said:


> I quickly figured im paying about $2.25 per sq ft for ceiling material.
> 
> Including 1pc of F-channel and 2'x2' "dune" lay in tile, all 15/16" grid


I'm a $1.85/ SF for 960 SF (1 box of mains) Prelude and Dune lay- in 2x2 Including sales tax.

ML


----------



## KAP

BamBamm5144 said:


> I am going to say it, I am with TNT on this one.
> 
> I bolded the part in which I believe he is referring to, because it is what I am basing it off of. Anyone can buy from distributors. My customers can buy from my distributor but yes, they will pay the same price I am already selling it to them for. Of course I make money on my purchases because of the amount of product I purchase from them.
> 
> What I want to know is how YOU are able to cut them out of the equation and go right to the manufacturer. I don't think I can call CertainTeed up on the phone, drive to the plant on Shakopee Minnesota and have them fill up the back of my pick up truck with shingles for half the cost I currently get them for at my supplier.
> 
> There is a huge difference between purchasing from a distributor compared to a manufacturer. If you could all purchase from manufacturers, there would be no Wal-Marts, Targets, or any retail stores.
> 
> Once again a "wholesale distributor" is different from a manufacturer. How do I get my manufacturers to sell to me directly and cut my distributor out?


BamBamm,

As I said, it all depends on what you are selling... there may not be any other option other than a wholesale distributor for certain products.

Noone said that this was only about manufacturers... 

That said... Millwork, Glass, Fasteners, furniture parts, hardwood, doors, windows, components, cabinetry, laminate, drawers, pre-made tops, etc. can all be bought directly from the manufacturer. This is the case in pretty much all markets. Am I going to do your homework for you? No... All I can do is tell you it IS available...

But to give you an example... If you buy FAS Oak hardwood 1 x 12 nominal from HD for example, it is $7.12bf... I can buy it direct from the mill (mfr.) for and average of $1.99bf (and can buy it for as low as $.99bf)... And that is dressed... a savings of 63%-86%. That is ONE example... 

I've already given the example of the electricians/plumbers, but if you are a GC, that can be applied to any trade... remember, they are not advertising, sitting appointments, and you provide them repeat business... Mark-up goes to you and the customer still gets it for less than they would have by themselves...

We can buy vinyl windows manufacturer direct for less than $100. 

Point is, whether it is through a manufacturer or a wholesale distributor, one of the reasons the discount is there is for MARK-UP... LEVERAGE what your customer cannot buy it for and realize the profit. 

Another example would be... Try Pro-Source for flooring... it's your own showroom that you can bring the clients to at anytime and they choose from all the samples. You know what your mark-up is already. They offer you $100 if they can't match the same product/price (obviously doesn't include close-outs), and they carry a few items that are unique to them, as well as, they have private label product, so you can't lose. They even show the client around FOR YOU during normal business hours at no cost to you (not to mention that they talk you up once you have a relationship). You are not required to buy from them, and for the privilege of having your own showroom, you pay a $25 member fee, and a one-time $150 for the card that gives you access to the showroom. Swipe it and all the electric turns on automatically and you have direct access to the showroom. Rumor has it that they are looking into supplying stock and semi-stock cabinetry.

BTW, they have locations in Milwaukee, WI and Naperville, Ill for you two naysayers...

You are leaving money on the table... learn to EXTRACT profit from your business and leverage your purchasing power... if you are wasting your time driving from supplier to supplier, you are wasting money...

Best of luck... 8^)


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## plummen

BamBamm5144 said:


> Can you guys answer a simple question or are you all full of BS.
> 
> How do you cut out the wholesale distributor and buy directly from the manufacturer? Do you buy enough volume or what? I would guess I would have to purchase tens of thousands bundles of shingles to be able to get my materials directly from the manufacturer.
> 
> I get my shingles at $23 a square cheaper than they sell them to homeowners for at my distributor but I want to know how to be able to get them another $40 a square cheaper from the manufacturer.
> 
> What types of materials are you purchasing? Are the manufacturers local? Why is it so hard to answer the question?


Well Im an Electrical/Plumbing-Plumbing utilitie/Hvac and boiler contractor,I buy things related to my trades/projects.
I spent 30 years getting myself connected with suppliers and manufacturers in the trades I deal with,thats how I got to where i am in life.


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## plummen

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Most have non compete clauses which prohibit private sales. I think its a mute point to go and try to cut out those who offer you the service. Remember the supplier is offering more than just a product.


Many of my factory/manufacturer contacts have been given to me by the various suppliers Ive dealt with over the years.
Not to mention the fact Ive done work for many manufacturers/customers over the years as a contractor to get my foot in the door with them.
Ive even got access to a couple steel casting facilitys and a couple huge steel fab plants with equipment most people cant begin to imagine.:whistling


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## plummen

SSC said:


> I think there full of BS unless they know someone personally at those places. Just called the wholesaler who supplies Marjam and they told me no. Trying to find others but there not listed


:laughing:Wow just because somebody has tried a little harder to get something that you cant seem to get now we're all full of bs huh?
Pretty typical response I guess! :whistling


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## plummen

BamBamm5144 said:


> I wouldn't even think about cutting out my supplier but I want to know how these guys "claim" to do it.
> 
> I have good relationships with all sort of representatives from manufacturers, doesn't mean that I buy directly from them or am even able to.


Maybe youre not talking to the right people :whistling


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## Mud Master

MSLiechty said:


> MM We are an Armstrong direct contractor tell me what you are paying and I'll let you know how badly you are getting hosed....
> 
> For what its worth I can buy through distribution, at nearly the same price as direct, But i have the direct pricing to keep the vendor honest.
> 
> ML


I'll pull up the price sheet when I'm in the office and PM you the individual prices. I don't buy like I used to when all I did was interior division 9, but I still give them plenty of sales a month in build out work, so I like to think they treat me well, but maybe not?

I appreciate it!!!


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## TheItalian204

On my experience price margin between wholesaler and manufacturer is minimal while truth is that buying from wholesaler may be just convenient.

Wholesalers I deal with get paid commision on base rate they sell material at so price between wholesaler and manufacturer is essentially the same.

Now if I could find tobacco manufacturer before sales taxes and other levyes I would probably never quit smoking :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate

mbobbish734 said:


> I'm not getting into this to argue with anyone...Rob. But what I find is the guys who've been doing this a lot longer than us usually have the connections. Basically in my market the carpenters that have been here longer than HD and Blowes have the connections a yards that been in business a long time and are usually hidden somewhere off the main roads. Rob do you remember when the big box stores rolled in? I do but wasn't in the trades to care before that. I remember thinking wow that's a huge store, cool. At least until I understood what was happening, now most yards are gone. But I can still get cabinets, lighting/electrical, flooring, hardware, tile and a few others heavily discounted. I just need to plan for it, if its something small or I need it now I can get from HD.


mbob, I don't think that I disagree with what you are saying at all. I don't think any of my statements have disagreed with what you are saying. I have stated that it was my understanding the manufacturers don't sell to the public and that what people are calling wholesale distributors are what I call vendors. They are basically resalers (retailers) for the contractor.

I also didn't say that you couldn't get items from a distributor, but was saying that it is not as easy as it is made out to be. I thought it funny how those that have listed distributors and specifically direct from manufacturers had some sort of in.

So I agree with you! And am glad to see you posting again, or have we just not bumped in to each other lately?


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## TNTRenovate

Mud Master said:


> In regards to the earlier conversation, of course I would add those caveats. I didn't want to give any impression that I'm some magical wizard who can conjure up all these manufacturer direct spells. I wanted to explain how I am connected to them, which was the original question.


I know that you would, but others are making it sound like you just walk into a manufacturer cut out the distributor and retailer and get their pricing. Most who have responded have some sort of "in". That's all my point was. Thanks!


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## TNTRenovate

Terrorron said:


> TNT (etal)...
> 
> If you seriously think I'm going to jeopardize direct connections that I've _spent years cultivating_, by posting up a virtual "shopping list" of companies/contacts on the open internet, you've got another think coming.


And that's my point, you didn't just walk in and get those connections. You made it sound like anyone can get what you have tomorrow. When in fact it took you "years" to cultivate it.


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## Mud Master

If were talking just walking into a manufacturer and placing an order WITHOUT having some previous connection, than TNT's argument is completely correct.

I tried one time, I walked into Weyerhauser and asked for a few bundles of 2x10 studs for some cabinet blocking. They said sure, went to the computer, printed out a sheet of paper, came back and said "here is a list of contracted yards in the area. Feel free to tell them *whatever his name was* sent you!"

Let's agree that it can be done, but only with the proper inside connections?

That sounds like a reasonable agreement to this does it not?


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## krist

It's gotta be a volume thing right? For example, I know on medium to larger scale jobs, the insulation contractor can supply and install it for less than I can buy it for. Means to me they buy a ton of it directly from manufacturer and warehouse it. Unfortunately I don't do enough of any one thing to be able to stock materials. Oh, and I don't have a warehouse either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my take.


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## summithomeinc

You can buy direct from the manufacturer. There was a thread here the other day talking about buying decking straight from the manufacturer. I think it was Killer decks doing the buying. Could be wrong if I am I apologize in advance. Point being, it can be done. One way is to open an account as a supplier,have a store location and sell to anyone. You get your materials at cost. Not saying it would work for every single thing, but I'm pretty sure if I wanted to go to the trouble i could set it up to buy most things I need at cost. I will say it wouldn't be as easy as walking in the factory and asking for it. But really, Is anything that easy?


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## plummen

Has anybody seen my horse? :whistling


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## summithomeinc

plummen said:


> Has anybody seen my horse? :whistling


Sorry. I was working all day. Didn't have a chance to comment while everyone else was.


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## TNTRenovate

plummen said:


> Has anybody seen my horse? :whistling


Someone doesn't realize that there are more than a handful of members that come in at all hours.

But I guess if Plummen is done with the topic we should just close the thread. :thumbsup:


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## gastek

Didn't you guys work at all today ?? LOL


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## TNTRenovate

PS0303 said:


> Didn't you guys work at all today ?? LOL


A lot of these guys have it on their smart phones, so can update with a comment pretty easily and on the fly. Either that or they do have a lot of time on their hands.


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## summithomeinc

TNTSERVICES said:


> A lot of these guys have it on their smart phones, so can update with a comment pretty easily and on the fly. Either that or they do have a lot of time on their hands.


Actually I check in on my phone throughout the day. It's too time consuming to try to type replies though.


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## plummen

TNTSERVICES said:


> Someone doesn't realize that there are more than a handful of members that come in at all hours.
> 
> But I guess if Plummen is done with the topic we should just close the thread. :thumbsup:


Its not me ,its the 10 pages of repeating ourselves over and over and over. :laughing:
But by all means if you guys want to keep it going,what the hey. :laughing:


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## katoman

summithomeinc said:


> Actually I check in on my phone throughout the day. It's too time consuming to try to type replies though.


Put that phone down. You're supposed to be working not blabbering on your phone.

Oh, I forgot, you're the boss. Sorry :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate

plummen said:


> Its not me ,its the 10 pages of repeating ourselves over and over and over. :laughing:
> But by all means if you guys want to keep it going,what the hey. :laughing:


There's this cool link on the e-mail alert called unsubscribe. Click it and be bothered no more by us beating the dead horse.

And I think that Da Grump fits you just fine!


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## 480sparky

PS0303 said:


> Didn't you guys work at all today ?? LOL


No. I did enough work Monday to suit me. I also marked up my materials so I made some money on the job.


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## katoman

I did the work of three men today and marked up my materials three times. So there :001_tongue:


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## summithomeinc

katoman said:


> Put that phone down. You're supposed to be working not blabbering on your phone.
> 
> Oh, I forgot, you're the boss. Sorry :laughing:


I keep sayin I'm the boss....I get blank stares and chuckles in return....I may be the boss but the help(wife) runs the show.


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## summithomeinc

katoman said:


> I did the work of three men today and marked up my materials three times. So there :001_tongue:


I charged by the hour today and marked up materials 30%. Loved it that there were 3 of us working:laughing:


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## SSC

PS0303 said:


> Didn't you guys work at all today ?? LOL


no when i go to work i lose money so i decided to stay home:whistling


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## katoman

SSC said:


> no when i go to work i lose money so i decided to stay home:whistling


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Now that's funny.


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## BamBamm5144

I was in the office all day. CT distracted me for over an hour. I wonder how the guys would react if they knew...


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## katoman

I won't even take a radio to work. No distractions allowed. Focus, focus, focus.


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## plummen

TNTSERVICES said:


> There's this cool link on the e-mail alert called unsubscribe. Click it and be bothered no more by us beating the dead horse.
> 
> And I think that Da Grump fits you just fine!


If only you knew how that name got hung on me! :laughing:
Most days Im around 75% retired,today was more like 98%
Tomorrow Ill either be at 50% or 99% depending on the weather:laughing:


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## katoman

plummen said:


> If only you knew how that name got hung on me! :laughing:


So c'mon, let's hear it. I know it's not about you being grumpy.........


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## plummen

A long time ago in a galaxy far away,ok well it was a country far away anyway! :laughing:


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## mbobbish734

TNTSERVICES said:


> So I agree with you!


I'm glad we finally agree on something:laughing:
I'm saving this for future disagreements so I can come back and copy it.:thumbsup:


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## plummen

katoman said:


> I won't even take a radio to work. No distractions allowed. Focus, focus, focus.


You dont get to hear about all the great products that Rush Limbaughs advertisers are marking up and selling? 
That sucks! :laughing:


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## mbobbish734

TNTSERVICES said:


> So I agree with you!


I'm glad we finally agree on something:laughing:
I'm saving this for future disagreements so I can come back and copy it.:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]


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## plummen

TNTSERVICES said:


> There's this cool link on the e-mail alert called unsubscribe. Click it and be bothered no more by us beating the dead horse.
> 
> And I think that Da Grump fits you just fine!


But Id miss out on your words of wisdom! :thumbup:


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## katoman

plummen said:


> A long time ago in a galaxy far away,ok well it was a country far away anyway! :laughing:


Chicken. :lol:


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## TNTRenovate

BamBamm5144 said:


> I was in the office all day. CT distracted me for over an hour. I wonder how the guys would react if they knew...


That's nothing...I have a customer (Chinese), who lives in a very large expensive home, and loves to play Ping Pong. Every time that I go over to work she and her husband always ask if I want to play a game or two. In the summer I will schedule them at the end of day so that we can get a couple of hours of play in. She is awesome and he is pretty even with me.

I had to go over last week and decline a game, but had to go back today to follow up. It was around lunch so I took some time and payed a few games. Well two hours later I decided that it was time to go back to the job the guys were working on and help a little before a late afternoon estimate.

They still don't know what I was doing for those few hours, but they don't have to. I am the one that stays up till 1am putting things together (or on CT)....never mind.


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## TNTRenovate

plummen said:


> But Id miss out on your words of wisdom! :thumbup:


Well thank you for finally recognizing my greatness. You could have saved us all a lot of time by just doing that in the first place! :laughing:


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## plummen

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## summithomeinc

TNTSERVICES said:


> Well thank you for finally recognizing my greatness. You could have saved us all a lot of time by just doing that in the first place! :laughing:


It could be true. You didn't say what you are great at.....:laughing::laughing:


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## katoman

TNTSERVICES said:


> Well thank you for finally recognizing my greatness. You could have saved us all a lot of time by just doing that in the first place! :laughing:


Today there are some great medications for the delusional.......:whistling


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## TNTRenovate

summithomeinc said:


> It could be true. You didn't say what you are great at.....:laughing::laughing:


Wisdom!


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## TNTRenovate

katoman said:


> Today there are some great medications for the delusional.......:whistling


Just let me know what the doctor prescribed for you that worked and I'll make a call! :laughing:


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## plummen

What are they called,and do you know of a wholesale source for them? :laughing:


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