# Pointing mix



## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

IAm a carpenter but have a 200 sq ft re pointing job.I am grinding a little deeper. What is my best pointing mix ? The house is 1960 so it is not the soft lime mix.I was thinking 3-1 mix using silica sand

Thanks


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

A couple of 2x4s oughta do it.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Ever heard of Spec Mix?

Just my humble opinion.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Spec mix PCL Type N is an excellent choice. Well, if you can't make the 2x4s work anyway.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Any Carpenter should be able to handle his 2 X 4's.


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## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

You see this is where I am getting confused, Most masons around me in the philia. area dont use any lime in there pointing mix unless the house is very old I guess with the lime based mortar. but i would think you would use it. What are pros and cons of the lime . We are working on 50 year old bricks now

Thanks


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

Pheasant89 said:


> You see this is where I am getting confused, Most masons around me in the philia. area dont use any lime in there pointing mix unless the house is very old I guess with the lime based mortar. but i would think you would use it. What are pros and cons of the lime . We are working on 50 year old bricks now
> 
> Thanks


One of the reasons lime is used in mixing mortar is to assure that the mix doesn't become too hard. Lime mortars also have autogenous healing properties. However, it's much easier to buy pre-mixed mortar, that may or may not have any lime, to batch on site. Either way, especially for older brick, the point is to have a softer mortar than the brick. That's usually specified as a type N which has roughly 750 psi compressive strength whether it's a lime mortar mixed at certain proportions or pre-mix out of a bag.

I was quite surprised a couple of years ago when we were working on a 150 year old building and decided for ****s and giggles to send a couple of brick units off for compressive strength testing. The results indicated that the lowest compressive strength of all the brick was 5,200 psi. I was shocked. And these are wood mold brick, not hot fired-clay units. Oh, and the mortar had lots of lime in it; I think it was 2 parts lime and 3 or 4 parts sand, as required by the Architect, so our mortar was probably super soft. (Note that BIA has specific mix ratios for all mortar types; www.bia.org)


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## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for the answers , but would you say the 1-3 mix is too hard for pointing ( 1cement --3 sand mix) They also do alot of over pointing in the Philly area where it is not ground out and put right over the receeding mortar joint usually wider than the joint . where they use the 1 to 3 mix also. the thing is I have a friend who is a mason and has been for 42 years and does alot of pointing and I dont want to keep questioning him like he does not know what he is talking about . Because he does beautiful work which he can say look I pointed this 20 yrs ago or 15 years ago and there is no problem. But I want to do this 200 sq foot job (and do it right) 

Thanks again


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

Pheasant89 said:


> Thanks for the answers , but would you say the 1-3 mix is too hard for pointing ( 1cement --3 sand mix) They also do alot of over pointing in the Philly area where it is not ground out and put right over the receeding mortar joint usually wider than the joint . where they use the 1 to 3 mix also. the thing is I have a friend who is a mason and has been for 42 years and does alot of pointing and I dont want to keep questioning him like he does not know what he is talking about . Because he does beautiful work which he can say look I pointed this 20 yrs ago or 15 years ago and there is no problem. But I want to do this 200 sq foot job (and do it right)
> 
> Thanks again



Oh yes, your mix is way too strong. I would say that if you don't want to mix your own, then go buy a bag of Type N pre-mix mortar. Follow the instructions for mixing sand in to the pre-mix and if mixed properly, it should yield roughly 750 psi. Not prepping the joint by removing the mortar, in my opinion, is absolutely a waste of time.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Just because you have been doing something for 42 years doesn't mean you have been doing it right.

I am not saying this gentleman is doing it wrong, mind you, just that experience is not always a predictor of knowledge.


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## Trowel head (Apr 1, 2011)

I am a sometime browser here and have been a bricklayer for 32 years and after reading this post Supahflid is the only one who gave this gentlemen any advice. Tscarborough I think you just want to build up your post count with your nonsense answers and critic. For your question (yes) 1-3 is a common mix for newer work as long as you dont dig in too deep. I and alot of my mason friends use this. Older work is a whole other bowl of wax. No a mix with lime wont hurt though either. There ,was that hard to help someone out . Idiots ruin everything thats why I dont post or care too. Sit back and read your stupid answers even on other posts.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Great first post.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

for future reference:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/mortar-what-type-need.aspx


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

You are right Trowel head (not about the post count, I could care less) it is easy to become jaded when you answer the same question over and over again. I apologize to the original poster, I should have simply suggested that you use the search function using, "tuckpointing"

http://www.contractortalk.com/search.php?searchid=3624956

to see the previous 30 or 50 times it has been discussed.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

I am insulted, I was completely ignored in this thread and I was the one posting totally worthless information. :furious: 

Actually only half of the info was worthless, the other half was simply of no value...:whistling

And speaking of post whore's, where is Angus when we really need him?

Sorry for the rant, fftopic:Now back to our regular program...arty:


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

aptpupil said:


> for future reference:
> http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/mortar-what-type-need.aspx



Since everyone is piling on everybody, I want to jump in too.

aptpupil, these guys are way more of an authority: www.bia.org


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Specifically, this Tech-note:

http://www.gobrick.com/portals/25/docs/technical notes/tn8b.pdf

For mortar selection.


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

Tscarborough said:


> Specifically, this Tech-note:
> 
> http://www.gobrick.com/portals/25/docs/technical notes/tn8b.pdf
> 
> For mortar selection.


Technical note 8 has a table for mixing by proportion.:tt2:


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Here's the UK NHBC mortar table.


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

stuart45 said:


> View attachment 45462
> 
> Here's the UK NHBC mortar table.



Hey, that's cool. Thanks for sharing!


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Supra - yep, we get it all. Long winters though, the really hot days like that are for only a couple of weeks. It's around freezing temp here now.

Spring is coming :clap:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I think CM was arguing against strong mortar, not for it. That is what I got from his initial post anyway.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I think it was my previous post that mentioned my distaste of overly rich pointing mixes and then his following comment "strength is not important" that caused the difference of opinion. Could be taken either way and I think thats all it is. 

Dick is definitely a smart guy who fits his profile and I enjoy following his comments. The knowledge he has flows from 5 gal buckets at times :laughing:


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Tscarborough said:


> Specifically, this Tech-note:
> 
> http://www.gobrick.com/portals/25/docs/technical notes/tn8b.pdf
> 
> For mortar selection.


I like this snippet copied out of the technical notes.


Simplistic Mortar Selection
The easiest method to select mortar is to remember the following mnemonic:
• Type N for normal brickwork applications
• Type S for stronger brickwork applications

That should cut down on a lot of the chatter around here.:thumbup:


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

Tscarborough said:


> I think CM was arguing against strong mortar, not for it. That is what I got from his initial post anyway.


If so, I stand corrected. I am sorry if I rubbed anyone wrong, especially concretemasonry.


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

katoman said:


> Supra - yep, we get it all. Long winters though, the really hot days like that are for only a couple of weeks. It's around freezing temp here now.
> 
> Spring is coming :clap:


We are opposite. We may only have ten or so days a year that freeze. We did have snow two or three times this year and that is unusual. We have already had some ninety degree days and in another month, we will consistently have ninety plus days. It was about eighty five or so today and we have been sitting on the porch all evening enjoying the sixty five or so degree weather.

You aren't going to tell me who the two Canucks were I was trying to think of?


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

lukachuki said:


> That should cut down on a lot of the chatter around here.:thumbup:



Sometimes, I don't know when to be quiet, so, I'll try to practice that more.:whistling (I think I said that same thing to you in another thread)


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Whatever the correct mix is, on many sites you are depending on a hod carrier with 2 weeks experience and a hangover to get the right gauge.
When using a shovel to gauge they often put 6 massive great ones of sand and a level one of cement. I have known mortar to fail on jobs which when analysed was about 20/1.
Compare them to the lime gangs of 500 years ago who were regarded in the same light as stonemasons etc. They would often spend a month in the area before the job started to access the climate, materials etc, and type of lime available to decide on the best mix.


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## bytor (Jan 23, 2010)

Supahflid said:


> You aren't going to tell me who the two Canucks were I was trying to think of?



Bob and Doug MacKenzie perhaps?

Take off eh!


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## Supahflid (Mar 22, 2011)

bytor said:


> Bob and Doug MacKenzie perhaps?
> 
> Take off eh!


Bingo!!! We have a winner!!! Take off you hoser!! I have racking my brain trying to remember those two.

Bytor, is that name a Rush reference?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Bytor, where u been? - i miss those chunky monkey pictures


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