# Managing the unorganized GC



## ewingpainting (Jun 2, 2008)

All I'm saying is the small GC are more personable. By creating your paper trail (per our conversation), you can become un-personable. When you take the personal out they can get nervous. Like your out to get them.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

tcleve4911 said:


> It's all about communication, communication , and more communication.
> 
> Honestly - you have to be proactive
> you have to call and then call to confirm that they got your call


it took me too long to realize what that actually meant. i thought i was doing well on communication and being proactive, but working for the company i do now, i realize that i wasnt as good as i should have been. i think there were too many people there to pick up my slack. 
i was trained in college to be organized, then at W-T they teach you to be anal about being organized. i went from a job that i kept a phone call journal and had a form for everything, to a job where the owner doesnt even remember if a customer paid him a draw. 
the line about teaching an old dog rings true here. its been 5 years, i tried for 3 years to change him, and get him organized. not much has changed. i stopped wasting my time a couple years ago. i just make sure my jobs are well organized and dont worry about the rest of the company.

edit:
after reading closer, something else i do, write an actual schedule. nothing fancy, but then the subs know when they are expected. update everyone every 2 weeks if there not on site yet, and remind subs on site that they only have a certain time frame until they hold other subs up. most subs are respectful enough to get it done when they know it holds other guys like themselves up.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm not out to change the world here but isn't this getting out of hand?

What I mean is, communication is important and a little bit of double checking, but it's still a bunch of horse sh$$. Only in construction are the responsible people required to call, email, fax, and write love letters non stop. Can you imagine if Subway Inc had to call the meat supplier like we call our sub family? That would last for about a minute.

Again, I have great subs and what I'm referring to is the occasional self-GC on smaller jobs. 

But still, ever since I first joined the ranks of being a business owner I spend half my week scheduling and calling. It just isn't normal, calling disorganized people like this costs all of us money. What we should be doing is making money. Man, if we could eliminate just 5 hours a week of wasted time think where we could be with our business.

I just think there has to be a better way.

Mike


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

ewingpainting said:


> All I'm saying is the small GC are more personable. By creating your paper trail (per our conversation), you can become un-personable. When you take the personal out they can get nervous. Like your out to get them.


I guess I have spent too many years in the trenches with a large GC. My typical day consists of :


Identifying a problem/conflict in the field
Talking to appropriate subs onsite superintendent about it
Calling the appropriate subs office project manager
Writing CYA emails at the end of each day
I try to be personable as much as possible, but I don't get paid to be everybody's friend.:sad:

Back to the OP- The organization of any job is totally dependent on the GC's onsite super and/or project manager. If you have a good one, he will be insulted if you try to suggest ways to organize his job. If you have a bad one, he will be insulted if you try to suggest ways to organize his job. It's kinda the luck of the draw.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ewingpainting said:


> All I'm saying is the small GC are more personable. By creating your paper trail (per our conversation), you can become un-personable. When you take the personal out they can get nervous. Like your out to get them.



What kind of calendar or scheduling system are you using?


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## ewingpainting (Jun 2, 2008)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> I'm not out to change the world here but isn't this getting out of hand?
> 
> What I mean is, communication is important and a little bit of double checking, but it's still a bunch of horse sh$$. Only in construction are the responsible people required to call, email, fax, and write love letters non stop. Can you imagine if Subway Inc had to call the meat supplier like we call our sub family? That would last for about a minute.
> 
> ...


It's a mutual respect and the understanding that a sub is there to make a GC money just as the GC is there to make the sub money. If both are making money both will be happy.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> What kind of calendar or scheduling system are you using?


We use Prolog by Meridian Systems.


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## ewingpainting (Jun 2, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> What kind of calendar or scheduling system are you using?


I guess I don't get what you are asking. I work primarily for GC's I schedule according to their needs. All the HO are scheduled between the GC's or I just add man power.


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## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> I'm not out to change the world here but isn't this getting out of hand?
> 
> What I mean is, communication is important and a little bit of double checking, but it's still a bunch of horse sh$$. Only in construction are the responsible people required to call, email, fax, and write love letters non stop. Can you imagine if Subway Inc had to call the meat supplier like we call our sub family? That would last for about a minute.
> 
> ...


Mike it is not only in construction. I have friends in other businesses who say the same thing. That suppliers do not call when they short them something or the trucks are late or whatever.

We choose who we do business with. If we have enough business then we can call the shots or tell them we are going elsewhere. (which big stores can do and do everyday from my understanding)


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ewingpainting said:


> I guess I don't get what you are asking. I work primarily for GC's I schedule according to their needs. All the HO are scheduled between the GC's or I just add man power.


Simply that there is a difference in subs, On one day I deal with subs that meet me for lunch and write down my project schedule in their day planner and I call to confirm that day and time..

On my large commercial remodeling jobs everyone is plugging days and times into scheduling software or blackberry calendar..

There is a big difference between the two.

Not trying to single you out just showing that there is a difference on project types.


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## ewingpainting (Jun 2, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> What kind of calendar or scheduling system are you using?


Ohh, I get, I use my BB.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ewingpainting said:


> Ohh, I get, I use my BB.


Yeah but these guys BB's calendars are also synced with a 10K scheduling software back in the office.. :laughing:


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## ewingpainting (Jun 2, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> Simply that there is a difference in subs, On one day I deal with subs that meet me for lunch and write down my project schedule in their day planner and I call to confirm that day and time..
> 
> On my large commercial remodeling jobs everyone is plugging days and times into scheduling software or blackberry calendar..
> 
> ...


What's the difference


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> Yeah but these guys BB's calendars are also synced with a 10K scheduling software back in the office.. :laughing:


That's exactly right, actually. :whistling


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## ewingpainting (Jun 2, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> Yeah but these guys BB's calendars are also synced with a 10K scheduling software back in the office.. :laughing:


I don't know if this is sarcasm towards whoever. But those programs just waist my time. I don't need all that funk.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ewingpainting said:


> I don't know if this is sarcasm towards whoever. But those programs just waist my time. I don't need all that funk.



No sarcasm the bigger guys use that stuff.

It either leads to better efficiency or they get bogged down trying and learning..

I work with both levels of subs the smaller 1-10 guy crew and the 20-100 man subs and the scheduling techniques of both size companies varies drastically. Some use a bb and note pad the large guys have software linked and interconnected to the office and other staff members

---------------

Don't have a Finley flash back on me now.. :laughing:


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## ewingpainting (Jun 2, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> No sarcasm the bigger guys use that stuff.
> 
> It either leads to better efficiency or they get bogged down trying and learning..
> 
> ...


:lol:

I've ran up to 200 men too a single crew of 3. I've tried different systems, for the most part they don't work for me. It all boils down to being on the job on your start date, without the GC to remind you and having your task finished prior to your completion date. I've never had a GC ask what system I use. They just expect me too be there at the start date and to perform in a timely manner. They don't really care out side of that.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

As an old guy and a GC for decades now, I'm kind of smiling.

One point that many subs miss is that our schedules mean nothing if our subs do not pull their weight and honor the timetables.

Scheduling is easy. It's like falling off a log, and I can almost do it in my sleep. So can almost all GC's. What is difficult, and what separates the men from the boys is juggling. Honestly, anyone can make a perfect schedule that can easily get the average house completed in three months. (I always tried to set up for 4 months.)

You made a statement about showing up to set toilets when the tile guy had not yet done the floor. Why do you suppose that was? I can almost guarantee you the GC had the tile man scheduled to be in there and gone before you even picked up the toilet......... ORIGINALLY.

What happens is that a sub ahead of you may slip a little...... a few hours, or a few days. Or they just plain don't show up. This is akin to simply taking the "schedule" and ripping it up and throwing it in the trash can. At the point of the very first sub falling down on his time allotment the schedule begins to unravel. This has to be caught, and corrected.... immediately. And it is an ongoing act of readjustment and juggling that better GC's just take in stride and deal with.

You speak of working for organized GC's that know how to schedule. That is not it.

The things you never see when working for better GC's are the continual, daily (and sometimes hourly) shuffling and reassigning of tasks and timetables so that your work seems to be hardly affected despite three or four subs scheduled for work prior to yours falling on their faces.

And as someone mentioned earlier, this is all hinged on three things, "awareness", "anticipation", and "communication"...... not making and following a nice, neat original schedule.

The most concurrent houses I have had going at any one time was 46. I usually shot for anywhere from 15 to 25 for comfortable working conditions for myself. And I can tell you that it is a steady juggling game that never stops. I seldom did less than 12 hour days. Most were closer to 15.

Why? Rebuilding and verifying shipwrecked schedules.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Thanks Willie T, sounds logical to me.

I think instead of taking on the occasional self-GC'd jobs I would be better off to step up the marketing and forget them all together instead of trying to deal with a "one off" GC job. 

You probably right about the quality GC's. I just know I never have complaints with the good ones, it's a pretty silent partnership except for the occasional small bumps in the system we are all used to. 

I just don't have extra time to be a babysitter for the un-experienced....I just realized this tonight. I think I'm done with little stuff like this. 

Mike


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Well...... give some thought to trying to be a little more flexible with the less experienced guys.
When I first began trying to help a house come together (28 years ago, now), it about drove me crazy to handle just one house. Then I could do two at a time. Then four. Then six or eight.

And you know what? I probably would have never learned how to go on to large projects if it had not been for my subs helping me. They put up with some awfully foolish things from me. And I know I cost them some money. But in later years, I also helped make them quite wealthy.

We all need to remember that we build houses as a team..... never alone, on our own.


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