# Tape?



## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

Recently I installed an exterior door in a wall where there was no door previously. I had to cut several 6 inch square holes to help pull wires and also a 3 foot wide x 14 inch hole for a header. In the past I have always taped repairs but my question is...is it necessary? All the joints have solid backing and I tapered the edges and hot mudded them.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

I would expect cracks , especially during season changes. G


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

Without tape you mean?


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

mics_54 said:


> without tape you mean?


 
yes


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

I knew that. :sad: It's not alot to do ...I just wondered. Ok on walls that have latex paint on them is there any prep needed for floating joints out? Scuff them up? (smooth walls)


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

mics_54 said:


> I knew that. :sad: It's not alot to do ...I just wondered. Ok on walls that have latex paint on them is there any prep needed for floating joints out? Scuff them up? (smooth walls)


Most likely you can get away with just floating over it. To be on the safe side, you could sand lightly and prime before mudding and taping.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

mics_54 said:


> I knew that. :sad: It's not alot to do ...I just wondered. Ok on walls that have latex paint on them is there any prep needed for floating joints out? Scuff them up? (smooth walls)


 
That will work, if you want to go the extra mile spot prime the areas that you will be adding tape to, G


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Gene - both our posts showed at the exact same time. Since you are a mod now, does that mean I must bow out and give you all the credit that came with answering this thread?? :w00t:


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks guys..back to work.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Gene - both our posts showed at the exact same time. And said the exact same thing Since you are a mod now, does that mean I must bow out and give you all the credit that came with answering this thread?? :w00t:


 NO, the credit is all yours, my reward is just being a MOD:laughing::laughing::laughing:, GMOD


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

genecarp said:


> NO, the credit is all yours, my reward is just being a MOD:laughing::laughing::laughing:, GMOD


 
Must pay pretty good being a mod.

www.phbconstruction.com


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

I notice if you dont prime the area the muds gonna go over it pinholes pretty bad. Hot mud doesnt seem to do it as bad though, must be the whole moisture evaporating vs curing thing.


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## d's (Mar 16, 2008)

In terms of prepping surfaces for floating patches you guys gotta try a can of spray adhesive. Just keep a can handy in your patch kit, a quick pass over the painted surfaces and then float over with your mud. Way less hassle than priming or sanding, sticks like :whistling, and you can coat right away

I'd never not tape any patch over 3-4" diameter and anything smaller I always cut the board at a 45 angle so the filler(synco confill's the best) has something to anchor onto.

You can get 12"-150' rolls of fiberglass mesh that are great for bigger patches as you can cut it to just the right size(check ebay).

One trick I've learned is to recess your tape/mesh by cutting back the paint/paper surrounding your patch using a utility knife so the patch sits flush with the existing wall - that way you don't need to float it out as much. And if your going to cut out a patch to run wires, fix plumbing, etc... - cut the patch out using your hole saw at a 45 degree angle all around. When you replace the patch it'll fit perfect and be recessed because of the material the saw removed. This in combo with above and it'll all end up sweet.


D'S


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

> One trick I've learned is to recess your tape/mesh by cutting back the paint/paper surrounding your patch using a utility knife so the patch sits flush with the existing wall


I was wondering if I could do that. excellent tips.. thanks d's


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## Plaster Guy (Sep 30, 2009)

The purpose of the tape is to join 2 pieces of sheetrock to effectively make 1 single panel. While that obviously isn’t rocket science it stands to reason that if you have solid backing all the way around your patch there is no way the patch would move independently of the sheet surrounding it, therefore you ‘technically’ don’t need the tape. (But since it feels so wrong not to tape something like that I still usually tape it anyway.)

To get a perfect patch I usually cut out my sheetrock before I make the hole then trace it where I want the hole. Since I’ve traced the piece I’m guaranteed it’ll fit perfect and be flush. Put some backing behind it and you’re good to go. For the small patches (3” or less) I’ll make a ‘California patch’ and mud it in real good. No need for tape/backing/screws.


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## Ebbo (Aug 22, 2009)

Plaster Guy said:


> The purpose of the tape is to join 2 pieces of sheetrock to effectively make 1 single panel. While that obviously isn’t rocket science it stands to reason that if you have solid backing all the way around your patch there is no way the patch would move independently of the sheet surrounding it, therefore you ‘technically’ don’t need the tape. (But since it feels so wrong not to tape something like that I still usually tape it anyway.)
> 
> To get a perfect patch I usually cut out my sheetrock before I make the hole then trace it where I want the hole. Since I’ve traced the piece I’m guaranteed it’ll fit perfect and be flush. Put some backing behind it and you’re good to go. For the small patches (3” or less) I’ll make a ‘California patch’ and mud it in real good. No need for tape/backing/screws.


Haven't heard the term California patch before. Had to look that one up. We call them blow out patches. Done hundreds of them myself. Maybe thousands. Or millions over the past 25 years.


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## Plaster Guy (Sep 30, 2009)

Not sure if its the same thing you're talking about with the "blow-out patch." Basically you cut the dimensions of your patch on the back of the sheet and cut the front ~2” larger on all sides. Break the back and peel the paper so that you have sheetrock to go in the hole and the paper on the front all the way around to cover the crack. Mud it up and stick it in place. (Hard to visualize with my lame explanation but if it’s the same thing you do I’m sure you’ll understand.)


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## Ebbo (Aug 22, 2009)

Plaster Guy said:


> Not sure if its the same thing you're talking about with the "blow-out patch." Basically you cut the dimensions of your patch on the back of the sheet and cut the front ~2” larger on all sides. Break the back and peel the paper so that you have sheetrock to go in the hole and the paper on the front all the way around to cover the crack. Mud it up and stick it in place. (Hard to visualize with my lame explanation but if it’s the same thing you do I’m sure you’ll understand.)


Yup the same way I do it. Found the description and pics of California patch here http://jasongraphix.com/journal/drywall-patches/ [ I don't peel the paper off the wall as it shows in it's pics, I just mud the patch to the wall]

You explained it well, I understood, since I do it the same way.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

d's said:


> In terms of prepping surfaces for floating patches you guys gotta try a can of spray adhesive. Just keep a can handy in your patch kit, a quick pass over the painted surfaces and then float over with your mud. Way less hassle than priming or sanding, sticks like :whistling, and you can coat right away
> 
> I'd never not tape any patch over 3-4" diameter and anything smaller I always cut the board at a 45 angle so the filler(synco confill's the best) has something to anchor onto.
> 
> ...


Spray adhesive eh? Woulda never thought of that thx, i always got a can or 2 of it rolling around my box its some pretty handy stuff.


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

mics_54 said:


> Recently I installed an exterior door in a wall where there was no door previously. I had to cut several 6 inch square holes to help pull wires and also a 3 foot wide x 14 inch hole for a header. In the past I have always taped repairs but my question is...is it necessary? All the joints have solid backing and I tapered the edges and hot mudded them.


 
The deal is, if the paper is broken, it needs to be taped(paper).

But I feel that your asking "is there a way to SHORT CUT the process in a way that it won't come back on me before the warranty goes out?"

Sure is, just use MESH tape,,, thats a real good short cut that will screw the HO but it will last long enough to git yo money,,, ya know,, if your looking for a shorty,, thats basic it.

Peace


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

That's a good one Capt. And I'd agree with you.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Ebbo said:


> Haven't heard the term California patch before. Had to look that one up. We call them blow out patches. Done hundreds of them myself. Maybe thousands. Or millions over the past 25 years.


We call it a buttetfly patch here...
I've used floor leveler also in a cram....then I dresses it it up with easy sand!


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

> But I feel that your asking "is there a way to SHORT CUT the process in a way that it won't come back on me before the warranty goes out?"


You sir are an arrogant presumptuous prig. You don't know anything about me or my ethics or my client. My question was how to make the job look the best cost effectively. Keep your advice because it's useless. The customer/owner is a close friend of mine and pays me by the hour to take care of his property which I use in his absence. So if this is your idea of advice I can only assume you project your own ethics.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I pretty much gave up blowout patches a long time ago.I'll go into a place with a bucket full of 1x2's(plwood works best). Screw the blocks in,patch drywall and then tape. Seems way faster to me. Just my opinion after doing hundreds of patches over the years.

As for tape....small-4''-no......large-yes. Anything near a door...yes!


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

mics_54 said:


> You sir are an arrogant presumptuous prig. You don't know anything about me or my ethics or my client. My question was how to make the job look the best cost effectively. Keep your advice because it's useless. The customer/owner is a close friend of mine and pays me by the hour to take care of his property which I use in his absence. So if this is your idea of advice I can only assume you project your own ethics.


 You sir asked for advice,, I gave you some, you didn't like it,, fine

Proceed sir


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

troll


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

mics_54 said:


> You sir are an arrogant presumptuous prig. You don't know anything about me or my ethics or my client. My question was how to make the job look the best cost effectively. Keep your advice because it's useless. The customer/owner is a close friend of mine and pays me by the hour to take care of his property which I use in his absence. So if this is your idea of advice I can only assume you project your own ethics.


Look dummy, I been thinking bout this thread all day, here it is, mesh has NO streghten to it, its just quick,,,,, a flat run with mesh and hot mud OR a flat run with no tape and hot mud are the SAME!! Its the hot mud, not the mesh. Do what you wamt to do,, but quit FOOLING yourself that MESH tape does anything, it don't.

Heres an experiment for you,,, hang durarock, tape the flats with mesh, then run a brown coat on it, and then a coat of syn stucco. It will crack on its own, no vibration needed.

If EIF stucco will crack over mesh, do you think AP or Hot Mud won't???

I could be wrong,, only got over 30 years doing this,,,, I may be wrong


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

you need to read the original post. I didn't say anything about mesh.


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

mics_54 said:


> you need to read the original post. I didn't say anything about mesh.


 
Okay, If I misread it, I am sorry

Anytime the paper is broken, it needs to be taped. In a situation like this, I usually find it easier and more prudent to just cut it all out and hang another piece around the whole thing, but either way will work, If you tape the cut areas.

Peace


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## SL-DRYWALL (Mar 18, 2007)

I dont like any joints above door openings , as captain said replace with a solid board across the opening .


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Big Shoe said:


> I pretty much gave up blowout patches a long time ago.I'll go into a place with a bucket full of 1x2's(plwood works best). Screw the blocks in,patch drywall and then tape. Seems way faster to me. Just my opinion after doing hundreds of patches over the years.
> 
> As for tape....small-4''-no......large-yes. Anything near a door...yes!


I have to 100% agree with this approach. I use the same method with good results-without the worry of any cracking down the road. I cut rectangles in the drywall & save it-cut a piece of ply a few inches longer on each end & then put a screw in the middle of a piece of the plywood strip. You can hold the strip down with that screw while you screw the perimeter sheetrock to it-take that screw out & install the "patch" screwing it to plywood - tape and mud, etc............


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## Brocktologist (Sep 16, 2008)

d's said:


> In terms of prepping surfaces for floating patches you guys gotta try a can of spray adhesive. Just keep a can handy in your patch kit, a quick pass over the painted surfaces and then float over with your mud. Way less hassle than priming or sanding, sticks like :whistling, and you can coat right away
> 
> I'd never not tape any patch over 3-4" diameter and anything smaller I always cut the board at a 45 angle so the filler(synco confill's the best) has something to anchor onto.
> 
> ...


It's nice to see experienced mudders around here. I never thought about using spray adhesive before I prefill. I do use spray over the prefill to make the mesh stick to my damp durabonded patch. 
*My guess is you seldom to never get callbacks (do to cracks).*
I'll give you're method a try, thanks.:thumbsup:


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## d's (Mar 16, 2008)

Necessity is the mother of invention they say. I've done a couple of patch jobs in the past over paint where I was at final sand with the light and... oh look a tiny little bubble - I'll just scrape that out and touch it up...- oh look now everything's flaking away and it's all FUBAR and I'm screaming into my dustmask so no one can hear! Boy I sure could use a huff off my can of spray glue to mellow out. Wait maybe if I sprayed it on the paint before I mudded it wouldn't flake off. Hooray I'm going to be so popular on contractor talk.com!

D'S


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

Yeah i do that with super 77, stuff will get you high as crap if your not careful too. Also if you go over a latex paint then I put the mud on and let it dampen the paint wipe it then coat it so it doesnt bubble. Hot mud isnt that strong and cracks pretty easy, cheap guys use only hot mud.


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## Brocktologist (Sep 16, 2008)

d's said:


> Hooray I'm going to be so popular on contractor talk.com!
> 
> D'S


Let's not get carried away now.:laughing:


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