# How to nicely say "its not worth it"



## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

Occasionally I run into situations where a client wants me to perform high end work in a low end house. I'm not talking about restoring some historical building, I'm talking about these rotten termite traps that are just not worth repairing. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a client that their house is not worth repairing without offending anyone?


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

If they're willing to pay it's worth it.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I ran into this last week. A 60 year old house with a sagging floor due to a beam that was cut in half to make way for a pipe. I didn't tell him it's not worth the repair, but I tried to explain to him that if I tore the whole house down and built him a new house, he would probably get a better return on his money when it comes time to sell it. I still gave him an estimated cost to make the repair and left it up to him. But he had a real valuable piece of property with a house on it that was basically worthless and falling apart. So I explained to him that if he keeps doing remodels, he's still going to have an old house, and there will still be issues with it. In which case I don't know if he's increasing the value much, if any at all.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I sure get that question since most of us started with calls from these prospects, myself included. The amount of time I spent on detailed quotes on drawings only to be told that I was about 10 times what they were expecting made me smarter. I'm finally on high end stuff, but it took awhile.

I have found that the best way is to ask for their budget on the project so you can tailor the project to that. Many times they won't divulge that since they simply don't know and have delusions of what can be done and for a certain price.

So throw out a "range". If their house is worth $100K, and you can clearly see that they are looking at a 50K remodel, throw out 30 to 60 and all you've wasted is a trip. 

Many people are so clueless about what things cost to do things correctly.

It's not offensive to offer a range of pricing from the hip. Then the onus is on them to realize that they can't afford it and you don't have to tell them.

Hope this helps. I wish somebody would have told me this when I was starting out.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> I wish somebody would have told me this when I was starting out.


 Yeah I made that mistake only once as well. I know better know, such as the one I just mentioned, it took me about ten minutes to give him a price range of around $30,000 to make the repair. Then I asked if he had a budget, he said around 5 or 6 thousand.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I just tell them it's an exciting project, but I'm not the one they're looking for, and I don't know anyone that would be just right for them.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> I sure get that question since most of us started with calls from these prospects, myself included. The amount of time I spent on detailed quotes on drawings only to be told that I was about 10 times what they were expecting made me smarter. I'm finally on high end stuff, but it took awhile.
> 
> I have found that the best way is to ask for their budget on the project so you can tailor the project to that. Many times they won't divulge that since they simply don't know and have delusions of what can be done and for a certain price.
> 
> ...


I realized very quick if someone won't EVER give you a budget and just wants a quote they are either a tire kicker or they want to go with the lowest bidder.

I refuse to quote any job big or small without a budget range. With that I take their wants/needs into consideration and if that lines up with the budget I provide a quote.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

It's not always about bottom line numbers to people. Sometimes it's worth it to the client, no matter what. Just understand their expectations and be honest and real with your numbers, even "ballpark" figures that might snowball. If they ask, "What would you do", you can tell them.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

If you get that feeling, simple tell them... *"Well, I have to run the numbers to get you a complete price, but based on experience, you are looking in the range of $x to $x to do what you want to do. Does that fall in line with your perceived budget for this?"

*


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## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

hdavis said:


> I just tell them it's an exciting project, but I'm not the one they're looking for, and I don't know anyone that would be just right for them.


Tried that once too. The job involved the daughter of a friend who wanted me to sheath the underside of her 1970ish house trailer. There was a serious mouse problem till they opened the skirting to let the cats in. Now there are dead cats and cat by products everywhere under there. definitely not a job I'd want to do for anything in the world. I told her I didn't have time (even if I'm bored to death in my armchair, I don't have time for that) and she says "I know you"ll do a good job and I'll gladly wait till you do have time rather than get someone else".:help:.... now what!


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

NOW I get it. (You're beating around the bush a bit.) So you're talking about a job "not being worth it" to YOU?? Then say you're not interested. It's easier than you think. I used to have a hard time, but enough is enough. I got sick of being the nice guy that would take on the "difficult". The nastier the job, the more they refer their friends, too. 

"Thank you, but I'm not interested in this job." Period. Or you can add anything else, but not required:

...."am focusing on other types of work"
... "have a bad back....
...."allergic to cats"

Whatever. Or quote enough that you can willingly do it.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Anthill said:


> Tried that once too. The job involved the daughter of a friend who wanted me to sheath the underside of her 1970ish house trailer. There was a serious mouse problem till they opened the skirting to let the cats in. Now there are dead cats and cat by products everywhere under there. definitely not a job I'd want to do for anything in the world. I told her I didn't have time (even if I'm bored to death in my armchair, I don't have time for that) and she says "I know you"ll do a good job and I'll gladly wait till you do have time rather than get someone else".:help:.... now what!


Now what? *"That's great that you'll wait, but I'm a remodeler, not animal control, and you'll have to address the issue of the dead cats before I can do my work. They have special clothing and protective masks to protect from disease for that sort of thing"...

*I doubt you'll hear from her again...


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Sub out the carcass removal and clean up, mark it up plenty, and if you still don't want it, sub out the plywood install and mark it up plenty too


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## EricKneff (Feb 20, 2014)

It's always pretty simple to say no to something, even if that is a customer. Now, I know that goes against the typical customer relations standards, but if I asked my bank teller to do my laundry, I'd expect a no. 

I'd make sure customers know what kind of services I deal in, and the type of work that I do. Make that very clear on your website, business card, etc. That way, if I have to say something's not worth it, at least it was reasonably expected.


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## bob hutson (Mar 16, 2013)

I used to get 'caught' in those jobs that I didnt want and even priceing it high I would still get some. The dread and just plain hating the job made the day suck. Now I just tell them its not something I want to do. I had a good customer call and want me to "build a room onto one of her rental trailers" :no:I simply told her Im not the type of guy that does that type of work, she said I know you can build it, I said simply I just dont do that kind of work. She still had me do other jobs for her,life is too short to take jobs you dont want.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Anthill said:


> "I know you"ll do a good job and I'll gladly wait till you do have time rather than get someone else".:help:.... now what!





Tell her you will be there the same day Johnny Mathis shows up........on the twelfth of never.:laughing:


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Why do you want to be nice about it?

I might have asked her why she would want to throw a big wad of money on to a **** hill.

It won't make the hill any better and skiing on it is near worthless.

Andy.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Anthill said:


> Occasionally I run into situations where a client wants me to perform high end work in a low end house. I'm not talking about restoring some historical building, I'm talking about these rotten termite traps that are just not worth repairing. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a client that their house is not worth repairing without offending anyone?


There's no offense If your just too busy to get to It..:whistling


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

It's easy. "We'd love to give you the kitchen of your dreams, however we need yo do this this and this first." 

If they are not interested you can take the high road by having a high bar of acceptable work.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Anthill said:


> Occasionally I run into situations where a client wants me to perform high end work in a low end house. I'm not talking about restoring some historical building, I'm talking about these rotten termite traps that are just not worth repairing. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a client that their house is not worth repairing without offending anyone?


I can't come up with an answer to that. But maybe this is close. and I've used it on occasion...........''Maybe you should think about putting that money into a new house.''


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## D.E.P.S. (Aug 3, 2013)

I went to look at a job for a contractor friend on monday. The young lady wanted to install new granite countertops with undermount sinks over some of the most beat up base cabinets I ever seen. The base was shaky just from leaning against it. It had been repaired several times in the past with wire, drywall screws, and what looked like a huge glue mess. Most of the drawer slides were broken and missing parts. The wall behind the cabinets were full of mold. I told her that the bases would need to be replaced if she were to go with granite because the weight of the top would cause further damage to a already weak base. I also showed her all the mold damage. I got a call from her husband a few hours later and he cussed me out for trying take advantage of his wife by upselling. He went on to say that I had no clue as to what I was talking about because he personally had done the prior repairs. He then threatened to call the better business bureau to report my shady business. I had my cell on speaker so my buddy could hear the conversation. All I could do was bite my tougue and let the guy rant. Meanwhile......my "_so called_" contractor buddy is two feet away listening to all this and was almost doubled over in tears laughing at me. He did present me with a bottle of "Jack" later on for the effort. Jeeeeees!


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Anthill said:


> wants me to perform high end work in a low end house.
> anyone have any advice on how to tell a client that their house is not worth repairing without offending anyone?


Be honest. "This is going to cost a lot of money and you probably won't get it back if you later on sell it" or the like. Sometimes people live in a dump but still want to look at something nice. All you can do is inform them of the cost/benefit trade off, then if they still want to do it, throw them a figure and if they agree to it, it's up to you whether or not you want to do it as it's their house and their money.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

This home does not need a proposal / estimate.......it needs an autopsy:laughing:


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I also had one of those kinds of jobs where I couldn't quite say no. The house had 3 inches of water in the crawl space during the dead of winter. Like a fool, I waded through the water on my back and belly but everything turned out OK. That was a very important lesson for me about saying "No. It isn't worth it."

I'd tell them that the cat issue is more than what I can handle. It's just not safe or healthy for anyone to be under there. Thanks and have a nice day.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

tedanderson said:


> I also had one of those kinds of jobs where I couldn't quite say no. The house had 3 inches of water in the crawl space during the dead of winter. Like a fool, I waded through the water on my back and belly but everything turned out OK. That was a very important lesson for me about saying "No. It isn't worth it."
> 
> I'd tell them that the cat issue is more than what I can handle. It's just not safe or healthy for anyone to be under there. Thanks and have a nice day.


Pffft, we ain't made of sugar, wade through the mud, collect the cheque, call it a day.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

My plan is to not do any crawl space work until unemployment is back at 10%. If you can't say no to a $200.00 bs crawlspace job it's time to work on your website.


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## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

I got out of the cat job it pushing it off till she finally forgot about it. Thanks everyone, I'm learning from your replies and I'll have to practice saying "no" some more. That's the disadvantage of being the guy that people call when they're in over their heads


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm starting to make a habit of bringing houses back from the dead. It can pay well, but it is also a big pain and a lot of extra work. What makes it worth it is seeing the customers face when the house looks better than they ever remember.

Sure, there are times you have to just put on the brakes and not add the new counter tops, or use linoleum instead of tile, and a 100,000 dollar house doesn't need 600 dollar fixtures. That is my job to try and steer them in the best direction for what they are trying to accomplish.

Most guys won't take on these jobs, but I don't mind.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Anthill said:


> That's the disadvantage of being the guy that people call when they're in over their heads


That's called opportunity... :thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Generally this thread reminds me of many conversation, but one of the interesting ones was when an electrical contractor told a HO she should just buy a new house next time. Best thing that ever happened - the HO switched electricians, and had 2 more building completely rewired with no hassles.

Don't take a job if you're going to have a bad attitude about it.


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## mbender2004 (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not but managing clients expectations is huge! If they are adamant and want it then take care of business...but if you hear them mention a crazy figure to sell their house after the work is done it would definitely be important to let them know your thoughts.


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## PoleBarnsNY (Jan 18, 2014)

To OP, 

I always advocate for qualifying the customer further in your processes.

Never assume the customer is making a decision on economics and pragmatisim. Imagine how a pig FEELS wearing lipstick. AMAZING AND BEAUTIFUL. :thumbup:

What I have done in situations like this is tell the truth about concerns with the right follow up to maintain a polite exchange while still honoring your sincere concerns and qualifying the customer more deeply. In my view it is part of qualifying the customer and aiming for a high level of customer satisfaction in all of your processes including sales, recommendations and the legitimate advisory role you should take.

For example, "I am concerned that investing your money in this comparatively high end work for the neighborhood, that you would not be able to recover your investment IF you decided to sell. If you want to invest in this project for other reasons it would be helpful if I understood them. How important are the economics to your decision to invest in this project and what are the other reasons you want to do the project. :thumbsup:

I suspect the answer will be "I don't care about economics cause they aint sexy. It is something I have always wanted. This was my grandmothers house. I kissed my first boyfriend in the hallway closet. I carved my name in the tree about back when I was 7. I want the mo fo even of its the dumbest investment in the history of mankind. Do you want the job or not." :laughing:

At that point you can decide if you want to pursue the project. If not I would suggest many of the same suggestions already made with the best being "I am focused on other types of projects at the moment so I am not the right contractor for your project. I wish you well."

To be thorough, there is another camp that does not care to get into the customers reasons or economic well being. If they have the money and they want it for their own reasons, they do it without asking questions and they still sleep well. I don't think either way is wrong. It is a matter of what each values and their approach to taking or not taking responsibility for covering the wisdom of decisions a customer makes in an advisory capacity. Each camp might think the other is making mistakes. 

Contractors that run with it without taking responsibility for advising against what might be an economically foolish are respecting the customers wishes without questioning the reason behind it other than they want it. Customer with money they want to spend for ants are adults with wants whether they are economically unsound or not. It is their prerogative to do so.

Contractors that question the wisdom of a decision for economics are concerned that customers are making a mistake they will regret and believe they are responsible to educate the customer for a harmful decision perhaps while ignoring that adults with money ought to be able to spend it on what they want without a judgment hassle from others or for purely economic reasons. Many customers make purchases for wholly uneconomic reasons. Happiness, ego, delusion, bragging rights, to prove a point, for the hell of it, boredom, tax deduction, etc. 

There is no consensus on those two perspectives. I dont think either is wrong. They just have different beliefs and priorities.

Honoring your own comfort zone results in you working for the types of customers that agree with you and other contractors working with their type. That is a good outcome for everybody. 

The amount of time and money invested and the type of project in these concerns also needs to be proportional or the whole conversation can be a silly waste of time.


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## bmrtoyo (Jul 10, 2016)

hdavis said:


> I just tell them it's an exciting project, but I'm not the one they're looking for, and I don't know anyone that would be just right for them.


a sucker ? lol:whistling


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## GTBuilds (Aug 31, 2013)

Anthill said:


> Occasionally I run into situations where a client wants me to perform high end work in a low end house. I'm not talking about restoring some historical building, I'm talking about these rotten termite traps that are just not worth repairing. Does anyone have any advice on how to tell a client that their house is not worth repairing without offending anyone?



It's a real quandary because, to the individual who has a monetary investment, they're just trying to do what it takes to keep the house from falling down. 

Sometimes, it's just too little -- too late, but I try to give them a list of their options and explain when a repair is too costly.

I hate being in that position.


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## bmrtoyo (Jul 10, 2016)

GTBuilds said:


> It's a real quandary because, to the individual who has a monetary investment, they're just trying to do what it takes to keep the house from falling down.
> 
> Sometimes, it's just too little -- too late, but I try to give them a list of their options and explain when a repair is too costly.
> 
> I hate being in that position.


ill try and help them out ,alot of people let projects go too long and then they get more expensive {water damage, sub decking ,joists ,trusses,etc} ,you just cant get around the higher cost and make a micro profit ?:no:


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## bmrtoyo (Jul 10, 2016)

*" its not worth it "*



fjn said:


> This home does not need a proposal / estimate.......it needs an autopsy:laughing:


ive got a cat ,well level it and start from scratch ? :thumbsup:


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## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

Anthill said:


> Tried that once too. The job involved the daughter of a friend who wanted me to sheath the underside of her 1970ish house trailer. There was a serious mouse problem till they opened the skirting to let the cats in. Now there are dead cats and cat by products everywhere under there. definitely not a job I'd want to do for anything in the world. I told her I didn't have time (even if I'm bored to death in my armchair, I don't have time for that) and she says "I know you"ll do a good job and I'll gladly wait till you do have time rather than get someone else".:help:.... now what!


I'm someone who never will turn down a job no matter how hard, how busy I am, how gross a job is. I'll just price accordingly to my situation. If I'm busy ill mark it up more in hopes that I dont get it but if I do ill have money to pay for overtime or hire another guy. If its gross just price accordingly and be honest. " It's gross down there have you seen it? I'm going to have to charge 5000 because it so gross." The worse thats going to happen is you don't get the job or maybe they will do the demo and cleanup to save the 5000. So you'll just have to do the work. But always be honest and make sure you make money.


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## CharlieDelta (Aug 17, 2016)

rselectric1 said:


> Many people are so clueless about what things cost to do things correctly.


Ain't that the truth...


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## EcoMindedSD (Aug 2, 2016)

I believe honesty is key here. My company doesn't do projects under $50K so when we encounter prospects who want to go below, we let them know our stance so they can take either adjust their budget or take their business elsewhere. If you're the type to deliver quality work, then stand by it and know the budget you deserve.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Last person I did this to, hired the competition. They had no problem taking their money.

They have a $20,000 house, spent $45,000 on it. Now it's worth 28,000.

I suppose I thought I was doing the right thing by trying to save their money. Turns out, they didn't want to save their money. They wanted to spend it. Foolishly.


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## bcook19791 (Aug 24, 2016)

This is a great question. I have two customers that I am in the same boat right now. I have told them that I wouldn;t invest money in it if it was mine. Oh well "fools and there money soon part".


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Yes they do. The question is, Do they part it with you or your competition. Because they are determined to get rid of it.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

In this situation I will sometime get ahold of someone and say

"I worked the numbers on the job and it comes out to $17,340. If this is something you think you will likely move forward with I will get it in proposal form for your review"

It's kind of the opposite of a closing line. It almost never leads to a sale and thats kind of the point. At the same time you aren't insulting the customer or waisting unnecessary time assuming it a project you can price quickly.


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