# Setting type secret



## dicksdrywall (Aug 14, 2008)

I've searched around forums for hints on how to mix up a batch of hot mud / chemical mud / setting mud, tried them all, but still get lumps in the batch. 
I mix up a pans' worth of CGC Synco pro-set 30 or pro-set 90, http://www.cgcinc.com/media/29915/synko_proset30_ltsand_5kg_data.pdf
add powder to the water, mix it in a s/s bowl with a handheld cake mixer, smoosh out the lumps as it spins with a rubber spatula, let it rest for a few minutes, then add water as required and mix the sh*t out of it again. Looks creamy smooth as I pour it into my pan or onto the hawk.
But same result, little dry bits appear, just as the perfect coat is getting laid, out comes a dry bit, f-ing up the coat. :furious:
Are my expectations too high? 
Is hot mud too crappy to bother with for a top coat and I should be using a premix Finishing mud?
I've got people asking every week for service and I want to speed up my work, things are good in Kamloops!

What's the secret??

Thanks in advance, Dick


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

I've always just mixed it in my pan with a 3" knife. If you mix it to the soupy side first, that seems to get most/all the dry chunks out, then slowly and carefully add a little more dry until you get the consistency you're looking for. The difficulty is getting all the dry bits out of the corners while mixing, if you don't, that's what's showing up during your finishing.

Also, I don't tend to worry about a few dry chunks F'ing up the finish because the first coat or two are broad cast to smooth the bulk of the area. Upon final coat, I'll go back and top up any scratches left by debris or dry chunks after the surface has set.


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

i have had problems with that type of mud before...i generaly just use that for small fill ins or quick skims...if its something that needs a top coat i go to the ready mix stuff and add just a bit more water to help it dry quicker


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

I have had good luck with easy sand 90
add some aluminum sulphate mixed with water and can create anything from a 5 minute set to a 90 minute set. very nice for small patches where you can mix one batch of 90 and modify set time in the pan and complete the whole job in one batch.


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## Axecutioner-B (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't know if you have a company called West-Pac around your area, but if you do ,,, their hot mud mixes & goes on like whipped cream. If faced with a choice between WestPac or Sheetrock brand hot mud I will throw rocks at the sheetrock brand & grab the WestPac. Yes its that much nicer !! 

I hope you have some in your area


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Try different brands till you find the one that works best for you. Keep bags sealed and dry. I've run into batches that were just bad!:no: It takes time to learn how to mix this stuff and the more you do it the more you learn and the better you get.


Water......powder........mix.......how hard could it be? arty:

I forgot.....Good luck!


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

dicksdrywall;[URL="http://www.cgcinc.com/media/29915/synko_proset30_ltsand_5kg_data.pdf" said:


> [/URL]
> add powder to the water, mix it in a s/s bowl with a handheld cake mixer, smoosh out the lumps as it spins with a rubber spatula, let it rest for a few work, things are good in Kamloops! :blink::blink::blink:
> 
> Hmmm.
> ...


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## jamesdc (Aug 27, 2010)

I've never had good luck with pan mixing hot mud. The best method I've found for batches of 20 or 40 minute is to mix about half a 1 gallon bucket at a time with a drill with a small mud mixer. This eliminates any dry bits of mud and gives a nice creamy batch, about 1 to 1 and a half pans worth. For larger batches I use 40 or 90 minute and mix about half a 3 gallon bucket and use a larger mixer, this yeilds about 3 to 3 and a half pans. The only other reason you could be getting rocks is either the water is too warm(mud sets faster) or you're not working fast enough and the mud is starting to set. I've found you have about half the time the bag says before the mud starts setting and becoming hard to run and forming rocks. I'm not a fan of using premixed mud for the topcoat or any other coat for that matter. I use hot mud only, from tape coat to final skim, it works great.

Also what Axecutioner-B said is right, Westpac is way better than sheetrock brand, that stuff is hard to run and dries like concrete and a huge pain in the ass to sand, but it is still workable though


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## dicksdrywall (Aug 14, 2008)

Been using stone cold tap water, and only mixing a pans worth simply so it has no chance to begin to set up. We don't have a westpac here. 
What about some dawn dish soap, has anyone tried that?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> I'm not a fan of using premixed mud for the topcoat or any other coat for that matter. I use hot mud only, from tape coat to final skim, it works great.


Do you sand the final coat, or is that necessary for you? I have to sand the final and find hotmud a little difficult to sand. Do catch it as it is going off and sponge sand?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

boman47k said:


> I have to sand the final and find hotmud a little difficult to sand. Do catch it as it is going off and sponge sand?


Agreed; timing is critical. Never tried sponging, but if you sand before it's fully set up, it usually cooperates. Mostly. Sort of.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I usually just top it with reg mud after knocking any rough places down.

I use it sometimes, but I don't like mixing it.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

OK, i'll try again. Mixing in a pan.......add water.......add powder slowly,less is better.....mix ,flop,flip,get all the dry powder into the middle of the pan.Clean all sides of pan with knife. No dry powder left ,your doing good. Mix it up some more. Hurry up if it's 20

Too thin....add more powder. Too thick(never a good thing)add more water. Keep mixing.

Always better to add more powder than water if you goofed:w00t: you will learn.

Best I can offer for now,time for dinner and I'm hungry!

See Ya!


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

_


Big Shoe said:



OK, i'll try again. Mixing in a pan.......

Click to expand...

_


Big Shoe said:


> No way, I've only mixed itsy bitsy batches (a couple of nail holes...) in the pan.
> 
> Always use a 5 gal. bucket. High speed corded drill. Mixer has to been a inline. Stop after getting mixture correct. Scrape side of bucket with appropriate knife to get the lumps off the side. Mix again and put in pan. Wipe remaining mud out of the bucket with sponge for the next guy. :thumbsup:


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

paulie said:


> _
> 
> 
> Big Shoe said:
> ...


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## jamesdc (Aug 27, 2010)

boman47k said:


> Do you sand the final coat, or is that necessary for you? I have to sand the final and find hotmud a little difficult to sand. Do catch it as it is going off and sponge sand?


 
I usually have to do a light sand on the final coat, hot mud is a pain to sand but in more than makes up for it in time savings. I love being able to do 2 to 3 coats in one day, not to mention premix scratches too easily and it seems someone is always bumping into the walls.

As far as the dawn dish soap goes, it doesn't affect the setting time at all. It supposedly makes the mud run smoother but when I tried it I didn't notice much of a difference.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I have used Dawn with regular mud. I tend to make a small mess sometimes when mixing hot mud and am careful about letting it go off on my tools or in my pan. But I have used it for the time savings. A thin finish coat of finish mud does not take long to dry and is easily sanded without risk of damaging the dw paper.


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

I never mix with a wand because I can't use that much mud before it's hard in the bucket, pan, and mixing wand. Even trying to do small batches, by the time I get the wand cleaned off it's starting to fire in the pan. Maybe if I had a helper to do the clean up ... :laughing:


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## Axecutioner-B (Jan 28, 2010)

I also like to mix about 30% (20 minute hot mud) to about 70% Liteweight joint compound. This makes it react a little slower than straight 20 minute while adding the workability of regular mud. For the small stuff that i do this works just about right so that when I'm ready to 2nd coat my 1st coat is just about set.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

The most 20 min I like to mix in a bucket is about three pans/worth. And that's not very often. I will on alot of jobs mix *full* pans throughout the day, working in different areas of a unit.

I've never timed myself, but I would guess I mix up a pan in about 3 min. I've been using paddle on battery drill for close to twenty yrs now. 

Alot of jobs I'll start out with full bags of 45 or 90 mixed in 5 gal bucket. And finish up with pans of 20. It all dpends on the job and witch way the wind is blowing. :laughing:

My favorite mix is Pro Form Lite. I'm just used to this brand. Whenever I reluctantly have to use a different brand I usually ***** about it.:laughing:


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