# I wouldn't have believed it myself



## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

So over the past few weeks my employee has been really just not good. No need to get into it too much, but the countless mistakes, lack of responsibility, and general stupidity has forced my hand. 

I wanted to let him go last week but my wife and brother talked me into giving the guy another chance. I went into this week fully willing to give him a second shot but he has made it almost unbearable and unenjoyable to be at work. Plus, production has been at a stand still. 

So yesterday I put up an ad on the good old Craigslist. Figured there's bound to be some good guys who are just out of work due to the season, or maybe just looking for a change in scenery. 

One email in particular stood out to me. Here it is:

Hi my name is ***X and I am interested in your ad on Craigslist about the remodeler helper you are seeking. I am 22 and have worked in the home remodeling trade since I was 18. I have experience in drywall, some plumbing and electrical, hardwood and tile installation. I'm working my last week this week before being laid off by the company I'm working for and would like the opportunity to work for a company that works year round and provides the opportunity for advancement. If this position is still available please contact me anytime at ***-***x. Thanks. 

My employee replied to my ad. What are the chances? I have never once mentioned laying him off or anything about a lack of work. I get it. He's trying to make himself more marketable than telling the truth.

It gets better. He sent the email at 10:02 am while he was on the clock. Yep, using my time to search for another job. Guess he didn't have to poop after all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but job searching while on the clock is theft in the corporate world. 

He doesn't know that he replied to my ad yet but he's on his way to meet up with me shortly and I will be giving him his final check. And a copy of the email. 

/rant


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

:laughing:

:lol:


Douchebagg. 



Delta


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

That's Funny! :laughing:


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## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

Sometimes having employees just sucks.
At lest your decision is easy now.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

You have to give him credit for catching the vibe.


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

SEE the porta-potty is an OFFICE :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I would be willing to bet that his was among the best responses that you got. CL has been really hit or miss for me. Mostly miss in the last few years.


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

Reminds me of the ol' song.....Escape...'If you like pina coladas' :laughing:


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## Alldayrj (Oct 9, 2014)

Take a picture of his face.... Priceless


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

schaefercs said:


> /rant


double-dare you to email him back for an interview:jester:


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

Warren said:


> I would be willing to bet that his was among the best responses that you got. CL has been really hit or miss for me. Mostly miss in the last few years.



I got two so far that I will likely call back. The more I deal with employees the more I think about working solo, the upcoming weeks will help decide. 

The past few weeks I've spent about 4 days working alone anyways, since he thought he could make his own schedule. Funny, about 2 hours ago he texted me to tell me he had somewhere to be at 10 tomorrow. At least now he's got all day to take care of whatever it is this time.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Ahhh, the joys of internet anonymity. :laughing:





Delta


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

SmallTownGuy said:


> double-dare you to email him back for an interview:jester:



I was going to set up a phony email address and have him call tomorrow while we were both there. My phone would start ringing and he would be busted. The above post explains why I can't have that fun though


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

There's something to be said about a man who works alone .

I have G/Cs tell me often That i need to hire some help!

I Just grin.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

This is too funny. Good luck tomorrow. I'm sure his look will be priceless.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Ok, now that is funny as hell!!!


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## maxwage (Nov 25, 2012)

Second setting up an interview during work hours if permitted, and see what his excuse is for missing.

Then report back.

I have the popcorn on this one.


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

I had him come by to drop off my truck he was driving. It needs an inspection and shocks, and I said the shop could do it tomorrow morning. 

This is how the conversation went when he dropped the keys off. 

Me: I didn't know I was laying people off
Him: you don't have to lay me off
Me: the email you sent earlier says otherwise
Him: what email?
Me: this one you replied to on Craigslist this morning (I pulled out the copy I printed earlier)
Him: oh (you could almost hear the wind coming out of his lungs)
Me: oh, yeah. That's theft and you stole from my company. So here's your final check and a copy of the email. I also need your trailer keys

I took the keys and walked back inside as he walked back to his girlfriends car totally deflated. 

I think he knew his time with me was coming to an end (hence the job search) but had no clue it was going to end like that.


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

I've always wanted to reapply for my job and negotiate a higher wage.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

He might have been losing productivity in the hope that you would lay him off rather than terminate for cause. It's tougher for an employee to deny an unemployment claim on the basis of reduced productivity.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

You seem to have a hard time staying on track. We aren't discussing the things you are mentioning.

This employee was lazy and while on a bathroom break, emailed a resume to his current employees ad, then lied to about it. Since he was already on his way out, this sped things up. 

I'm glad you can justify stealing because everyone else does it. I don't allow it. It is written into my 8 page employee handbook that any lying, stealing, cheating and so on can and will result in immediate dismissal. All employees read and sign this.

I'm a very easy guy to work for and pay better wages than a lot of companies around here. I've often had employees quit and then ask for their job back weeks, months or even years later as the recent guy I just brought back on hasn't worked for me for 2 years and he took a pay cut to do so.

Once again, If you are on the company clock and doing things that aren't actual work for the company, you are stealing right out of your bosses pocket.

I don't know anything about your business, your employees, etc but you should look into how much just 15 minutes wrong on a time clock a day costs your company a year. You'll pay closer to attention to things.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jeremiah2911 said:


> I tried to give everyone more credit lol. I really wanted to say 10 posts tops but then I'd really piss a lot of ppl off. Digression is an understatement, I call it derailment.


Question? Why does it take 53 people to nail 2 boards together?

Answer: 1 guy holds, another nails, and a 3rd reports the whole debacle to CT.

Now we - the other 50 folks will discuss the righteousness of the nails, the lumber, the accuracy of the cut with a cheap-arsed tape, whether a real carpy would have used a sidewinder or wormy, that one was wearing tenny runners and the other didn't have pro-grade pants - shorts - coveralls, My Momma, your Momma...

And when its all said and done we sing koom bye yah and realize the thread was started by a DIYer.
:clap::clap::clap:


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Technically doing personal things on company time IS stealing but I could not equate that to an employee sneaking materials into the trunk of his car or falsifying his time card. I figure that for every 15 minutes an employee "steals" in time, I probably get that back every time I ask him to work a few minutes into the lunch break or I ask him to hang out a few minutes after work to help me close up the jobsite. 

But I can understand the OP's position of a employee dragging his @$$ more than 5 hours out of an 8 hour day and probably has an attitude problem for the 3 hours that he actually works. 

One day's labor> $120-$150
One printed email> 4¢
Meeting your employee for what he thinks is an interview for another company> PRICELESS.:laughing:


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

Jeremiah2911 said:


> Is that in your employee contract? That's why I see interviews as a two way street. The candidate should be looking to see if this is truly a good fit. It's just like qualifying customers, we are trying to avoid the headaches in the end. If I realized that my boss was starting to nitpick and pay attention to my bathroom habits, I'm out of there. If he has the mentality that I'm a thief because I take too long in the bathroom, I'm out of there.
> 
> 
> As I said it's done all the time though so if you've ever "stolen" a minute of your companies time then you are a thief. If that's the case I should be jailed. Do you know how many times I checked my personal email at work? Shoot in college I would sometimes do my homework and get a little reading in. My sister is in nursing school and when she puts her patients to sleep, guess what? She studies. People go on interviews and job hunt at their current employers all the time. Trust me, I'm no slacker. I worked 3 jobs to put myself through an Ivy League university. Corporate America isn't as regimented as it appears on TV.
> ...



I totally agree. Obviously job hunting while dumping is not the right thing, but crying theft is pretty unreal. It would be pretty hard to find a person on here who has never spent a paid minute to do something not work related.
But maybe I'm biased, a few years ago I worked for a guy who said I had to clean bent nails and sawdust out of my toolbelt after work. Ever since that guy when I hear employers cry about minuscule amounts of lost time, I just roll my eyes.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

What do you consider a miniscule amount of time?


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> What do you consider a miniscule amount of time?



Definitely, the daily 20 min bathroom breaks are out line. But an extra 5 minutes on a coffee break, or taking a personal call, you've got to let that go. It all evens out in the end.


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## UkChippy (Nov 5, 2014)

That reminds me of this


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> You seem to have a hard time staying on track. We aren't discussing the things you are mentioning.
> 
> This employee was lazy and while on a bathroom break, emailed a resume to his current employees ad, then lied to about it. Since he was already on his way out, this sped things up.
> 
> ...


Posts like these...

How would you know if you are easy to work with? Can you say biased/forced opinions?? But since I ALONE have trouble staying on topic on CT (sarcasm) wouldn't this be the same as you wife asking if she looks fat? Btw, "my off topic-ness" has purpose, the questions and scenarios I pose were meant to inspire introspection that would hopefully cause us business owners to see things from an alternative lens and perspective. 

I'm a realist. I don't believe that I'm perfect and I don't expect that from anyone. I just ask that whatever you do, you give it your all.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I just base it on what my guys tell me compared to others they worked for and how many who quit only to ask to return later.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> Definitely, the daily 20 min bathroom breaks are out line. But an extra 5 minutes on a coffee break, or taking a personal call, you've got to let that go. It all evens out in the end.


How many personal phone calls should be allowed a day that the business owners should just "let go?"


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> How many personal phone calls should be allowed a day that the business owners should just "let go?"


That's obviously a judgement call with multiple determining factors. But keep in mind that the door swings both ways. 

If you're an iron-discipline martinet who doesn't allow your guys one bit of slack through the day, I can pretty well promise they'll be bolting for their trucks at the exact strike of quitting time. Keep it laid back (within reason) and they'll be much more likely to pay you back with interest.


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

Tinstaafl said:


> That's obviously a judgement call with multiple determining factors. But keep in mind that the door swings both ways.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're an iron-discipline martinet who doesn't allow your guys one bit of slack through the day, I can pretty well promise they'll be bolting for their trucks at the exact strike of quitting time. Keep it laid back (within reason) and they'll be much more likely to pay you back with interest.



I've always worked harder for the guy that I felt was reasonable and laid back. The guys that ran jobs like Hitler got about 75% effort.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Tinstaafl said:


> That's obviously a judgement call with multiple determining factors. But keep in mind that the door swings both ways.
> 
> If you're an iron-discipline martinet who doesn't allow your guys one bit of slack through the day, I can pretty well promise they'll be bolting for their trucks at the exact strike of quitting time. Keep it laid back (within reason) and they'll be much more likely to pay you back with interest.





slowsol said:


> I've always worked harder for the guy that I felt was reasonable and laid back. The guys that ran jobs like Hitler got about 75% effort.


But there does come a point to lay down the law. I am starting out and was trying to be the super nice GC that any sub would want to work for. I quickly found out that if you give most some rope they will kindly say thank you and take it all. There is a balance.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> That's obviously a judgement call with multiple determining factors. But keep in mind that the door swings both ways.
> 
> If you're an iron-discipline martinet who doesn't allow your guys one bit of slack through the day, I can pretty well promise they'll be bolting for their trucks at the exact strike of quitting time. Keep it laid back (within reason) and they'll be much more likely to pay you back with interest.


I don't understand why contractors allow employees to do so many things that wouldn't be tolerated in other industries. Personal phone calls, arriving late, etc.

Now, I've never been on any construction job where I've seen a guy go 100% the whole day. Usually a few minutes of break time an hour, a trip down the ladder to cool off but there's no reason employees need personal cell phones on the job. 

I personally have always been different which is probably why I own my company now. Even when employed, my lunch consisted of how long it took me to grab the sandwich out of the truck and to make sure I eat it on the way back. I know this isn't normal and I don't expect it from anyone.

Its a two way street. I give the guys the freedom to end the day when they want as long as we are on schedule. If they take a random 10 minutes to cool down, no big deal. Now if all the guys on one crew take 10 minutes once a day for personal calls, I just lost an hour of production.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

Spencer said:


> But there does come a point to lay down the law. I am starting out and was trying to be the super nice GC that any sub would want to work for. I quickly found out that if you give most some rope they will kindly say thank you and take it all. There is a balance.


They don't respect you. And just because you sign their checks doesn't mean you're automatically respected or deserving of respect. Respect is earned as the saying goes and it goes both ways. When you treat them like family they will treat you like family. You can't treat people like the help and then wonder why he doesn't go the extra mile. They go the extra mile because they know you will do the same. If you're a hardass and skimp they will do the same. I'm just speaking generally here not to you. Another thing, we (as people) always harp on the negative. Positive reinforcement (yep I'm breaking out the psychology) isn't just for dogs. Focus on the good things constantly and the negative will disappear. 

I apologize for getting off topic...


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Jeremiah2911 said:


> They don't respect you. And just because you sign their checks doesn't mean you're automatically respected or deserving of respect. Repeat is earned as the saying goes and it goes both ways. When you treat them like family they will treat you like family. You can't treat people like the help and then wonder why he doesn't go the extra mile. They go the extra mile because they know you will do the same. If you're a hardass and skimp they will do the same. I'm just speaking generally here not to you. Another thing, we (as people) always harp on the negative. Positive reinforcement (yep I'm breaking out the psychology) isn't just for dogs. Focus on the good things constantly and the negative will disappear.
> 
> I apologize for getting off topic...


In a perfect world that would always work out. Unfortunately I think its a bit of an unbalanced viewpoint. That is not how it typically works. Mainly because all men are subject to the emotion of greed, which can be very powerful.

I think if you had a case study of 10 GC's. You tell one of the ten to treat all of his subs/employees with NO restraint. Be mr nice guy in every way. From price to the work performed. I think you would find that the subs would love this guy, but there would over time be short cuts taken and his job cost would be much higher.

I'm not an expert on this. I'm learning and this is what I am seeing and finding out.

And quite frankly, I am not going to rip anyone off, but if I see money on the table, I am going to try and get all that is fair. Subs are the same way, whether they respect you or not. Its just business.

Am I wrong in my thinking? Because this has been an issue I've really been wrestling with lately. I never wanted to fit the stereotype of the typical stingy GC and still don't, but I'm starting to see that many of them have the reputation they do out of necessity, because if you don't lay down the law you will get run over in this business...


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I just base it on what my guys tell me compared to others they worked for and how many who quit only to ask to return later.


Guess I'm still having difficulty staying on topic... 😆

Grain of salt buddy. I'm not knocking you, I truly hope you are as great as you say you are. But, If they talk about their old employers now to you imagine what they will say to their next employer about you. This is why in corporate America it's taboo to bad talk your old company especially during an interview. It shows that you are not a loyal person. Sometimes people will tell you what you want to hear when they feel you need to hear it.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Curious, how many employees do you employ?

Also, I don't mind what they may or may not say about me. I've had more than one employee that I've fired and they responded with the typical "you'll fail without me, you're never going to make it, I do everything, blah blah blah," - I'm sure they didn't say anything good about me.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I don't understand why contractors allow employees to do so many things that wouldn't be tolerated in other industries. Personal phone calls, arriving late, etc.
> 
> Now, I've never been on any construction job where I've seen a guy go 100% the whole day. Usually a few minutes of break time an hour, a trip down the ladder to cool off but there's no reason employees need personal cell phones on the job.
> 
> ...


You aren't comparing apples to apples but if you insist. In other industries you get so much leeway it isn't even funny. Paid happy hour, paid vacation, paid staff bonding retreats in Vegas, free gym memberships and gyms on site, free childcare, free daily lunch and dinner, paternity leave, tuition reimbursement etc. Some places have instituted mandatory nap time. And I'm not making this up on drawing from my own experiences and those of my friends.

Research has proven that these benefits and incentives increase productivity and profit.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Curious, how many employees do you employ?
> 
> Also, I don't mind what they may or may not say about me. I've had more than one employee that I've fired and they responded with the typical "you'll fail without me, you're never going to make it, I do everything, blah blah blah," - I'm sure they didn't say anything good about me.


Your curiosity will only cause me to go off topic much to your chagrin.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Ahh now I understand. Thanks for clarifying.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

Spencer said:


> In a perfect world that would always work out. Unfortunately I think its a bit of an unbalanced viewpoint. That is not how it typically works. Mainly because all men are subject to the emotion of greed, which can be very powerful.
> 
> I think if you had a case study of 10 GC's. You tell one of the ten to treat all of his subs/employees with NO restraint. Be mr nice guy in every way. From price to the work performed. I think you would find that the subs would love this guy, but there would over time be short cuts taken and his job cost would be much higher.
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head, balance is key. It's difficult to accomplish and I fail in many many ways. But I admit this. I will make mistakes, I'm supposed to, however I should and will learn from each of them.

ETA: I'm not naive just a little different My faith informs everything I do. It was the reason I took my 250K degree and decided to literally build my own way in this world. My bottomline can't be quantified. If I was in it for money I would have continued into law and med school like most of my family. My grandpa is 96 now, he is a carpenter and is/was the last tradesman in the family. My family helped to build the Panama Canal. I want to build upon a legacy that was this close to being gone forever. A lot of the work we do is pro Bono. My brother and uncle (rip) spent much of their lives oversees in the military and the elderly community is very dear to me. We don't charge the elderly. One of our goals this year is to go on a couple missions trips oversees to build and improve orphanages. Do you see now why I try to see the best in people always? My screenname says it all...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I don't understand why contractors allow employees to do so many things that wouldn't be tolerated in other industries. Personal phone calls, arriving late, etc.


Why do you think it isn't tolerated elsewhere? It is, except in factory jobs for large faceless corporations, and even there (maybe even especially there), employees have many ways of getting "free" time.

If you try to treat me like a slave, you're going to get minimum production from me. Respect breeds respect. Not saying you should let your people walk all over you, because they won't respect that either. 

But give them some slack within limits, and they will generally be happy to go the extra mile for you. Unless you are hiring total losers from the get-go, and in that case... well, that's on you.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Jeremiah, 

There is a balance in my experience. None of my current crew would say I am hard assed ramrod I dont think, but they know I can be. I have said many times on here, if your guys are taking a break when you pull up and they jump up and get busy because you pulled up, you have a problem imo. I have almost never had to have the personal phone usage discussion. I take care of them, they take care of me. But they are a good crew. They have seen me fire for not keeping their end of the bargin, including my best friend and brother in law.

In my short experience, 15 years or so, I have run crews that were less talented and motivated, and you better not be a wuss or they will hang you with the rope you give them. Im glad thats not the case now, but it might be again in the future for all I know. 

Same with subs. There is a time to be the good guy, and with some subs you cant always be the nice guy. 

My painter is a good example. He is considering building a shop in town, he doesn't have the capacity or ability to build it, and cant afford a GC. I told him id help him with getting the design to permit, and coordinate it for him gratis. Wont take much of my time, and in the long run him having a shop helps me. 

But, meanwhile, he is busy as hell, and I am as well at the moment. I schedule jobs properly, and give sufficient notice when I need them to start. One of my current projects, I need to finish by Christmas. I told him in October the window I was scheduling for him to paint it, he agreed to it. I gave him two weeks notice that we were on schedule.

Day one, he sends two guys to do the prep  I told him that day there is no way those two guys can finish this in time. He said he'd have 4 guys there tomorrow. 

Tomorrow comes, 2 guys. I called him and told him if you dont have the other two guys here by lunch, I am giving the Rosamond job ( a big job for him) to my two painters ( the two in house guys are on my dads personal home remodel and some service work ) and will be pissed if this job is finished late because he cant schedule his crew. He knows from experience I dont bluff, thats how he got to be my painter, I fired his predecessor for not doing what he said he would. The other two guys were there by 1030. 

Those instances are far and few between usually, but a necessary part of the business in my experience if you want to be successful and keep your end of the bargin to your client and your other subs.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Why do you think it isn't tolerated elsewhere? It is, except in factory jobs for large faceless corporations, and even there (maybe even especially there), employees have many ways of getting "free" time.
> 
> If you try to treat me like a slave, you're going to get minimum production from me. Respect breeds respect. Not saying you should let your people walk all over you, because they won't respect that either.
> 
> But give them some slack within limits, and they will generally be happy to go the extra mile for you. Unless you are hiring total losers from the get-go, and in that case... well, that's on you.


Out of thanks. Agreed


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

Jaws said:


> Jeremiah,
> 
> There is a balance in my experience. None of my current crew would say I am hard assed ramrod I dont think, but they know I can be. I have said many times on here, if your guys are taking a break when you pull up and they jump up and get busy because you pulled up, you have a problem imo. I have almost never had to have the personal phone usage discussion. I take care of them, they take care of me. But they are a good crew. They have seen me fire for not keeping their end of the bargin, including my best friend and brother in law.
> 
> ...


Jaws, 
You sound like an exceptional and generous person and boss. Much respect. It seems like you don't let one or a couple unfortunate events shape you or change future interactions with others.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Jeremiah2911 said:


> Jaws,
> You sound like an exceptional and generous person and boss. Much respect. It seems like you don't let one or a couple unfortunate events shape you or change future interactions with others.


:laughing: I can think of a few folks who would disagree. 

Im just your average contractor making a living. Personnel management is probably my stong suit , if anything.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I've never once mentioned about treating anyone like a slave. I often work right along side the guys and treat them how I'd expect to be treated.

I'm looking at things from a financial perspective. If I allow each one of my guys 12 minutes a day to make personal phone calls, it will cost me over $8000 a year. Let me ask how that's fair to the employer?

Jerermiah clearly ignored the question about having employees leaving me to wonder if he has any. Its easy to judge when you don't have any.

As I've said, I'm easy to work for. Show up on time, do the job your paid each week to do and if you have a 20 minute call you need to take, punch out of the clock first.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Ahh now I understand. Thanks for clarifying.


Since you understand...

I have a crew of two, my husband and myself. I actually want to remain a small business. I don't want to gross or net the numbers that many of you do. I don't want a fleet and all that. I grew up very poor in the ghettos of NYC, I know how to live minimally with very little. We have been blessed with this business. with hardwork I attained an amazing education and know some very amazing and successful people. I love the personal relationships I have with most of my customers. I'm forming a non profit next year. Off topic, right? 

Here's where you say:" see she has no idea what she's talking about since she doesn't have NON-OWNER employees." 

And this is where I prove you are wrong lol. Again. 

Before I started our business I managed a nursing facility and was responsible for the post surgical, dementia, and hospice care of roughly 50 patients while being the liaison and managing about a dozen doctors, 20 nurses, 40 aides and assistance and a myriad of other service workers including dietary, facilities, maintenance, and contractors plus corporate breathing down my neck. A lot of people came in to get better but I had about 2 die on me everyday. The decisions we made were life and death every minute of the day. With so much responsibility and pressure the employee turnover was high. Not to mention we all had to work through hurricane Sandy and Irene (you can't abandon patients under any circumstance) worked through Christmas, Thanksgiving etc. I worked 80-90hr weeks consistently. 

So correct me if I'm wrong but I think that I'm experienced in dealing with personnel, staff, and employees. Plus I'm a new yorker so as one great icon said "if I can make here I can anywhere" . Punto final.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I've never once mentioned about treating anyone like a slave. I often work right along side the guys and treat them how I'd expect to be treated.
> 
> I'm looking at things from a financial perspective. If I allow each one of my guys 12 minutes a day to make personal phone calls, it will cost me over $8000 a year. Let me ask how that's fair to the employer?
> 
> ...



I'm not saying that everyone gets 15 minutes paid time to make personal calls. But I know that if I ever decide to be an employee again, I will never leave my phone in the truck. I have family and I would love to know immediately if they needed me.
If I were to get a call from the alarm company, I would want to answer it without feeling like my boss was shooting laser beams out his eyes at me.
Also, if you start calculating time/lost production costs per year you'll go crazy! Losing your tape, or breaking a drill bit can set you back 10 minutes pretty quick. If you keep seeing a 33 minute lunch break as $1500 of lost money, you'll never be satisfied with a worker.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> I'm not saying that everyone gets 15 minutes paid time to make personal calls. But I know that if I ever decide to be an employee again, I will never leave my phone in the truck. I have family and I would love to know immediately if they needed me.
> If I were to get a call from the alarm company, I would want to answer it without feeling like my boss was shooting laser beams out his eyes at me.
> Also, if you start calculating time/lost production costs per year you'll go crazy! Losing your tape, or breaking a drill bit can set you back 10 minutes pretty quick. If you keep seeing a 33 minute lunch break as $1500 of lost money, you'll never be satisfied with a worker.


But the problem with 3 extra minutes of lunch is they won't stop at that. You have rules, they are not negotiable. You can enforce your rules and still be a cool employer.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I've never once mentioned about treating anyone like a slave. I often work right along side the guys and treat them how I'd expect to be treated.
> 
> I'm looking at things from a financial perspective. If I allow each one of my guys 12 minutes a day to make personal phone calls, it will cost me over $8000 a year. Let me ask how that's fair to the employer?
> 
> ...


I'm a she not a he and I Didn't ignore, see post above. No employees? Try having about 60 in a high pressure life and death environment. I'm my own boss but even I weren't I wouldn't want to work for someone like you. I wouldn't encourage someone to work for someone like you. that occasional 12-20 minute call could be an emergency, someone's kid could be sick or worse and you'd be there tapping your foot, watching the clock, ready to drop the axe?? Good boss? You treat your employees well? This is why I raise an eyebrow whenever someone on here makes certain statements about themselves. From your words you probably wouldn't accept their explanation as truth. With more women in the workforce (and being the breadwinners) the joys and responsibilities that come with raising a family falls on both men and women equally. Then ppl that share similar views wonder why they can't find good, loyal employees?? I'm pretty sure you get those 12
minutes back somehow. Unless you've got perfection down to a science I imagine there a other ways unrelated to employee time that you lose 8k. Do you care more about money or your employees? Employees should be treated like assets not like burdens that carry expenses. No worries though you've more than clarified your philosophy. 

Understanding and compassion cannot be calculated but they go a very long way.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Jeremiah,

just a couple -three observations-------

1)If you post under the name of Jeremiah- it's reasonable that people are going to assume you are a dude. If there is some confusion on the readers part---well YOU kind of brought it on.--- nothing serious.

2) you are taking some things out of context/mis-interpreting. Especially about BamBam. when You get a grasp on Item #3---you will see what I mean.
3) with your wopping 129 posts- you have strong opinions- but you don't have enough of everybodies back story to really grasp what they are about.

BamBam has about 18 zillion posts, and while I don't always agree with him on everything I know enough about him to know hes a pretty good dude--stick around here long enough and you will see it's pretty hard to find ANYBODY who knows him who thinks otherwise.
you have taken some of his comments--- mis-interpreted them- then gone off on a tangent while simultaneously making apples to oranges comparisons to bolster your case.

But---whatever. that's certainly your right. you ARE, however being mistakenly aggressive---in my opinion.

Very best wishes,
stephen


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Jeremiah2911 said:


> I'm a she not a he and I Didn't ignore, see post above. No employees? Try having about 60 in a high pressure life and death environment. I'm my own boss but even I weren't I wouldn't want to work for someone like you. I wouldn't encourage someone to work for someone like you. that occasional 12-20 minute call could be an emergency, someone's kid could be sick or worse and you'd be there tapping your foot, watching the clock, ready to drop the axe?? Good boss? You treat your employees well? This is why I raise an eyebrow whenever someone on here makes certain statements about themselves. From your words you probably wouldn't accept their explanation as truth. With more women in the workforce (and being the breadwinners) the joys and responsibilities that come with raising a family falls on both men and women equally. Then ppl that share similar views wonder why they can't find good, loyal employees?? I'm pretty sure you get those 12
> minutes back somehow. Unless you've got perfection down to a science I imagine there a other ways unrelated to employee time that you lose 8k. Do you care more about money or your employees? Employees should be treated like assets not like burdens that carry expenses. No worries though you've more than clarified your philosophy.
> 
> Understanding and compassion cannot be calculated but they go a very long way.


The post I made was before you posted that. It does sound like you had to oversee a lot of people in a high stress environment. With that said, it still doesn't sound like you signed the front of the paychecks which is a different world.

I spend $2500ish this year on jobsite time clocks. The guys always seemed to start right at 7am. Have lunch right at noon, get back to work exactly at 12:30 then get done right at 3:30 or 4:00. Now with job clocks, they get paid the exact time they work. The amount of money it has saved me allowed me to put more money into advertising to grow AND means the guys are getting one heck of a bonus this year. I look forward to the day you get employees to hear about how kind you are by paying them for multiple hours a week where they aren't producing for you.

I can assure you I'm simple to work for. In a business where employees come and go, my guys stay for years. I just like to be fair. If you think its fair to spend half hour a day on the company clock doing personal stuff, you wouldn't be the right fit for my company.

P.S - Had no idea you were a lady.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

Stephen H said:


> Jeremiah,
> 
> just a couple -three observations-------
> 
> ...


Dear Stephen and to who else is concerned, 

My name stands for the scripture that I live by Jeremiah 29:11. While glancing at my post count you would have also seen my title mortar mixtress which would indicate that I am a woman. I mention my husband a lot on here and not partner which still traditionally assumes that I am a wife hence female. It's no big deal to me. Would you prefer I change my name is something more feminine? I corrected him because I didn't want to deceive anyone. I could have easily created an online persona where my name is Jeremiah, been in business for 40 years, got a crew of 15 good for nothins, net about 600k cause my overhead is killing me and I've never had a callback. Would my post count matter then? Ever wonder if everyone here isn't being completely truthful or if they are just presenting themselves in the best light, stroking their ego, and telling some white lies. 

I know that post count and seniority is all that matters here and honestly speaking (as I always do) I don't believe in it. It's archaic. It exists in very few industries now. Bosses no matter the industry are younger and younger. Someone could have valid points but if he or she isn't part of the boys club (high post count) there comes the rift. I'm not making an issue of sex or gender, I can handle my own in fratty environments. This is only confirmed by your need to stand up for him and defend his "online reputation"? We are not discussing how great of a comrade he is or we are, he mentioned that he thought he's a great person to work with and then proceeded to invalid his claim (12 mins missed =8k loss) where others, not just myself, disagreed with him. 

Also, I had an older account from years back--lost the login credentials but would only lurk since we were in the startup phase. Despite my 128 post cost I spend my free time perusing and learning from threads from 2006. I belong to many forums since back when we were using dial up. I could get to 1000 posts easily if I wanted to. But I believe in contributing when I can, not piggy backing. Sometimes I feel a little silly liking/thanking someone for their contribution from 2007. I'm soaking it all in plus (and I'm being honest again) this site isn't very newbie friendly to begin with. In the quest to weed out the diy'er people get alienated amongst other things like "do a search that topic has been discussed many times" yeah back in 2008 and 2010, things change. Plus, newbies and user growth is what makes brands like the " talk" brand even more lucrative. 

And for the record, I'm probably the sweetest person you will ever meet. I'm very passionate and perhaps you confused that and my unwillingness to cower and whimper away in the presence of someone with a high post count as aggression. It's okay to disagree and debate. It's okay to be diverse and have diverse opinions. Homogeny is dull and doesn't foster anything. You can't have thin skin in this industry, so why should I? 

And someone is only deemed tangential when they disagree with the fray on here. He was curious and asked a question about me and I responded ABOUT ME. Welcome threads are the only threads that stay on topic. So please don't accuse me of doing something that is the norm here. Plus all in all we are discussing employee relations and how to manage personnel that seems to be in line with the topic. 

Have a blessed, safe, and wonderful day.


*excuse the typos got a new phone using the app and still getting the hang of it.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> The post I made was before you posted that. It does sound like you had to oversee a lot of people in a high stress environment. With that said, it still doesn't sound like you signed the front of the paychecks which is a different world.
> 
> I spend $2500ish this year on jobsite time clocks. The guys always seemed to start right at 7am. Have lunch right at noon, get back to work exactly at 12:30 then get done right at 3:30 or 4:00. Now with job clocks, they get paid the exact time they work. The amount of money it has saved me allowed me to put more money into advertising to grow AND means the guys are getting one heck of a bonus this year. I look forward to the day you get employees to hear about how kind you are by paying them for multiple hours a week where they aren't producing for you.
> 
> ...


Bam see post above. I believe in replying thoughtfully so I get started replying then have to tend to something and won't get back to the post until I've got a moment. I'm glad you are giving bonuses. I'm glad you are giving back period. I tithe (give) 10% of everything and more back. When you give you're given blessings. In your earlier post you came across a hard-nosed scrooge.. Just as I came off as aggressive. As I said before I have no intention of growing in employees, that seems weird I know. Realistically we wouldn't be able to do pro Bono work and go on missions trips if we had employees. Business was started on a prayer and a shoestring budget and we've got so much freedom. I'm a dreamer but I've got no hard intentions or expectations, again I'm a devout Christian so He is my guide in everything I do. I'm gonna get this started and build a solid foundation and reputation, and I will leave it up to my children to expand the legacy. I don't wanna leave them with money, I want to leave them with a plan. Please don't misconstrue what I said. I never said it's okay to spend 4 hours not working. The occasional 20 minute phone call could be an emergency. I don't do social media at all. No Facebook nada but I KNOW cell phones are essential to have. I went to school not too far from the twin towers and because I had a phone I was able to call my mom from under my desk and she picked up even though no one knew what was going on. A lot of people were rescued and got to say goodbye cause someone took the call. I don't think my sharing that is off topic. Emergencies happen...a lot... And unfortunately in places where we ought to be safe like school. In my short life I experienced things you couldn't fathom but I don't let these experiences harden me or change my outlook on life or people. 

Best to you and happy holidays.


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## HardWorks (Aug 6, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I don't understand why contractors allow employees to do so many things that wouldn't be tolerated in other industries. Personal phone calls, arriving late, etc.
> 
> Now, I've never been on any construction job where I've seen a guy go 100% the whole day. Usually a few minutes of break time an hour, a trip down the ladder to cool off but there's no reason employees need personal cell phones on the job.
> 
> ...


I bet you lose more than an hour a day by worrying instead of planning. lol

As for other industries, they don't have rain day offs and early quits because of weather either. 

I have several good, no great guys. Union men that play around, but always, always get what needs to be done, done. They are loyal, they are good friends off the clock, we are all kind of like family. 

I sit and read all these posts and have to laugh. I said it before and I will say it again, most people in construction don't have a clue about construction. That goes for employees as well. 

Hire men or women and not bums to begin with. Like a marriage, don't settle. 

The young man is 22 for crying out loud. He probably could stand your voice let alone working with/for you. lol. 

Can I ask you two simple questions?

What was his rate of pay?

What were his job site responsibilities?

For the guy who said, his boss told him to clean his tool bag out on his own time, that boss would had a mouth full of his dirt that got in my tool bag. 

I give my guys 30 minutes a day to take care of their tools and make any calls on (my) dime. My day goes like this.

7 am start
9:30 break until 9:45
11:50 lunch until 12:30
3:15 clean up 3:30

That is how it is bid, that is how it is. Anything over or under is OT unless they want to start early and finish early. 

I see more contractors was time than their men do. Poor planning, lack of knowledge, etc. 

Cracks me up seeing some contractors try to be tradesman and not being tradesmen. Kind of like a NFL team owner playing football. lol


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I'm looking at things from a financial perspective. If I allow each one of my guys 12 minutes a day to make personal phone calls, it will cost me over $8000 a year. Let me ask how that's fair to the employer?


It's fair if that extra 12 minutes of recess makes your employees happier and more productive throughout the day. 

I often have situations where I tell the guys that all I care about is seeing certain amount of work get accomplished by the end of the day. They'll bust their butt to get it done with an hour or two to spare. When that happens, I'll let my guys goof off for a little while before we line up the stuff for tomorrow and then knock off for the day. 

Some employers will use this as an opportunity to squeeze more juice out of their employees.:no:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

HardWorks said:


> I give my guys 30 minutes a day to take care of their tools and make any calls on (my) dime. My day goes like this.
> 
> 7 am start
> 9:30 break until 9:45
> ...


I have to ask, where's is the 30 minutes to take care of their tools and make calls "on your dime", a day in that schedule?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I don't get why you guys are still going on about this. I have an extremely low turnover rate. The few that have quit, ask to come back, the rest get fired. 

My first point was that if you are spending time on the company clock, you are technically stealing from if you're using that time for something non work related.

In my line of work, there's a lot of down time while on the clock. Just cooling down, getting a drink, taking a pee - none of that matters to me. What matters to me personally is if you get off the job, go in the truck, turn on the ac and talk to your girlfriend for 20 minutes about how her day is going without clocking out. That's all this was about and I'm glad I don't have to sorry about that.

To make it simple, the guys get 30 minute lunch unpaid and two 15 minute paid breaks a day. Usually they just take an hour at lunch and half is paid. On another note, I only have one employee younger than me, the next closest one to my age is 6 years older than me so its not like they don't know any better.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

tedanderson said:


> It's fair if that extra 12 minutes of recess makes your employees happier and more productive throughout the day.
> 
> I often have situations where I tell the guys that all I care about is seeing certain amount of work get accomplished by the end of the day. They'll bust their butt to get it done with an hour or two to spare. When that happens, I'll let my guys goof off for a little while before we line up the stuff for tomorrow and then knock off for the day.
> 
> Some employers will use this as an opportunity to squeeze more juice out of their employees.:no:


That's what break is for, my guys don't need more then that. If I have to give my guys another 12 minutes a day to get them to be more productive they have to go and I have, and will find someone that can get by on regular scheduled breaks and still be productive.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with an employer anymore. The minute to minute minutia kills me.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Giving employees free minutes isn't what makes a great employer, it's not even close.


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

HardWorks said:


> The young man is 22 for crying out loud. He probably could stand your voice let alone working with/for you. lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



His pay rate was $14/hr, which around here is pretty good. 

His responsibilities were to assist me with the daily tasks. If I needed the trash taken out, that's his job. If I needed someone to cut casing for me to install, again, his job. I based his tasks off what he described his previous work experience during the interview, which I later realized he greatly misrepresented himself.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

there's two ways you can answer this question about the 12 minutes. it all depends on what side of the time clock the 12 minutes are on. employees would expect to get paid OT should they work 12 minutes over that day. or even if it wasn't OT hours. were an employer to just pull 12 mins. a day off their check, that wouldn't be fair either.

common sense tells us that we pay/get paid for what service is provided. it would be my guess that 99% of all phone calls could be taken care of during the normal break periods. i don't know of many employers that would stop an employee from taking an "emergency" call. 

in my particular situation, we ran 5 man crew. 2- ex operators, loader operator, pipe layer, and top man (pipe layer helper). for the most part the top man has depending on depth of excavation, size of pipe...anywhere from 5-15 mins. of literally do nothing time between pipes. it'd never fail, get the hole trimmed, swing over to have him hook the strap to the bucket, and he's texting his g.f..of course, was ALWAYS an emergency. his texting shouldn't cost me pipe in the ground.

my policy became...give the people who need to know..my phone number in case of an emergency. leave your phones in your vehicles while your on my clock. check them on your breaks.


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## HardWorks (Aug 6, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> I have to ask, where's is the 30 minutes to take care of their tools and make calls "on your dime", a day in that schedule?


7-3:30pm is 8 1/2 hours add up the hours in that schedule they work it is 7 1/4 hours. By union law, I only have to give them a half our break for lunch and 10 minutes at the end of the day. 

So minus that 40 minutes from the 75 minutes is 35 minutes. 

Believe me, I haven't looked a my watch on a job site for my men anyway in over a decade. To much other critical thinking things to worry about John over there texting while the plumber is holding him up. lol

Most days, we through that schedule out the window. On Fridays, we don't take the 930 break work till 11 take lunch for 45 minutes and out the gate at 3. 

Being a field guy myself, I understand life and the field. Yes, I am an owner but never act like it. Scaling down in life has made life so much easier. I have preened and hand picked my guys over two decades. 

I have had some leave for other work or change of scenery. On good terms mind you and told them when they are looking again, give me a call. They do. Don't have guys dragging up because the job sucks, not enough money, the boss is a Dick. Everyone of my guys could be a foreman for other companies. Heck they even rotate on my jobs as to who is foreman. 

We huddle up and talk shop, we huddle up and talk life, we huddle up and pray for one another tribulations. 

I am a blessed man in many ways... and I know it. Some of it was planned, some God's blessing. 

I'm mid forties and have guys older and younger than me in my crew. At times when I call the hall, I try and get apprentices. The reason is they can see and learn from my guys. They are all great with apprentices. 

Good year or bad year my guys are off with pay from the week before Christmas which is tomorrow until the day after new years with full pay. 

You know what... five of them volunteered with me to do work for HFHI. Three more are coming into the shop for a few days to piddle around. That is what not looking at your watch, treating them like people, taking care of them, when you need it asking them to take care of you employees are all about. 

Great guys and going to miss them when the shop closes in another 7 years.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Jeremiah2911 said:


> Dear Stephen and to who else is concerned,
> 
> My name stands for the scripture that I live by Jeremiah 29:11. While glancing at my post count you would have also seen my title mortar mixtress which would indicate that I am a woman. I mention my husband a lot on here and not partner which still traditionally assumes that I am a wife hence female. It's no big deal to me. Would you prefer I change my name is something more feminine? I corrected him because I didn't want to deceive anyone. I could have easily created an online persona where my name is Jeremiah, been in business for 40 years, got a crew of 15 good for nothins, net about 600k cause my overhead is killing me and I've never had a callback. Would my post count matter then? Ever wonder if everyone here isn't being completely truthful or if they are just presenting themselves in the best light, stroking their ego, and telling some white lies.
> 
> ...


:laughing:

I dont agree with everything you are saying, but I gotta say I dig your style :thumbsup:

Stick around. The Good Ol "Boys" club aint so bad.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

Jaws said:


> :laughing:
> 
> I dont agree with everything you are saying, but I gotta say I dig your style :thumbsup:
> 
> Stick around. The Good Ol "Boys" club aint so bad.


Thank you I really appreciate that. Debates are a good thing. Just cause someone disagrees doesn't mean they are being disrespectful. I think a lot of people here are wary/afraid to speak up or share a different perspective but that's not me. I'm not with the "you better know your place" mess. 

I'm always around, you can find me in the CT archives  

Happy Holidays.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> In my line of work, there's a lot of down time while on the clock. Just cooling down, getting a drink, taking a pee - none of that matters to me. What matters to me personally is if you get off the job, go in the truck, turn on the ac and talk to your girlfriend for 20 minutes about how her day is going without clocking out.


Yeah.. that's a little different. To me that would constitute active theft of time. I might let the guy get away with it every once in a while but if this is something that he does every day and he still takes a lunch and his 10-15 minute break, I'll either have to dock him the time, require to make it up if the opportunity presents itself or I'll just have to let the guy go.

As others have said, nobody is really out there doing the full heave-ho 100% of the time but if I walk past one of my guys and he's on the phone, he better not be on the phone the next time I see him coming back the other direction. Also, he better not be smiling and giggling while on the phone because any call that's being made/received on company time better be serious and important enough to stop working.

Like if the guy is checking with his doctor to see if he has hemorrhoids or if his pain was from the wild party over the weekend, I can give him a little bit of lee-way. But if he's on the phone playing the "I love you more.." game or playing "No.. you hang up first." game with his girlfriend, I am going to give him a stern warning. THEN I am going to tell everyone else so that we can spend the rest of the day ragging on him. :laughing:


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

tedanderson said:


> Yeah.. that's a little different. To me that would constitute active theft of time. I might let the guy get away with it every once in a while but if this is something that he does every day and he still takes a lunch and his 10-15 minute break, I'll either have to dock him the time, require to make it up if the opportunity presents itself or I'll just have to let the guy go.
> 
> As others have said, nobody is really out there doing the full heave-ho 100% of the time but if I walk past one of my guys and he's on the phone, he better not be on the phone the next time I see him coming back the other direction. Also, he better not be smiling and giggling while on the phone because any call that's being made/received on company time better be serious and important enough to stop working.
> 
> Like if the guy is checking with his doctor to see if he has hemorrhoids or if his pain was from the wild party over the weekend, I can give him a little bit of lee-way. But if he's on the phone playing the "I love you more.." game or playing "No.. you hang up first." game with his girlfriend, I am going to give him a stern warning. THEN I am going to tell everyone else so that we can spend the rest of the day ragging on him. :laughing:


You better rag on him! Lol. 

Agreed 1000% even though I'm still not a fan of the use of the word theft,even if that is what is it technically, you can't file a police report for it  I'm pretty sure your employees heed your warnings and appreciate the occasional leeway- I know I would. With your approach they wouldn't hesitate going the extra mile for you or staying late. But if my boss was on my tail like white on rice then everyday is new years, I'm counting down and he wouldn't get a millisecond more. Reciprocity or an eye for an eye....


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

When my cattle prod ran out of juice I switched to electric dog collars, works well. I dont generally hit them with max unless they really mess up or are lolly gagging big time, just usually enough to get their attention. 

The biggest production killer is a long heavy lunch. They eat standing up now, 10 minutes max. Doesnt let the legs get stiff. 

The biggest pita as an employer is keeping a decent employee from getting complacent. Gotta murder that complacency with a 12 gauge. One example is these hands quit wanting to work weekends. So I cut their pay from 8 an hour to 7.25 ( minimum wage). Funny how them boys love that weekend work now. 

They aint bad hands, just need a nudge to get going.


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## HardWorks (Aug 6, 2014)

Jaws said:


> When my cattle prod ran out of juice I switched to electric dog collars, works well. I dont generally hit them with max unless they really mess up or are lolly gagging big time, just usually enough to get their attention.
> 
> The biggest production killer is a long heavy lunch. They eat standing up now, 10 minutes max. Doesnt let the legs get stiff.
> 
> ...


That's funny. How about giving them the time and a half for the weekend overtime.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

HardWorks said:


> That's funny. How about giving them the time and a half for the weekend overtime.



That's what I was wondering... I always thought lowering a worker's wage was illegal. It's douchey at the very least.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> That's what I was wondering... I always thought lowering a worker's wage was illegal. It's douchey at the very least.


I thought Jaws was joking? At least I hoped he was joking.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> That's what I was wondering... I always thought lowering a worker's wage was illegal. It's douchey at the very least.


 That you thought that was real makes me worry about you :no: No one makes 8 dollars an hour here, unless they are in high school or something. Whataburger pays 9.... 

I did get the lunch standing up thing from some roofer on here, cant remember who. He was dead serious. Who works for someone like that? 

On a side note, i have seen state agencies lower someones salary, by the employees choice, instead of being laid off. More than once. So I imagine its legal in Texas. Ive hired people at too high a rate because they exaggerated their value, and let them go soon after. Lowering a wage will probably only cause resentment and will be counterproductive in trying to avoid the inevitable, imo. 

Now I hire at two rates, mid level and laborer/apprentice. More than once ive given a two dollar an hour raise on the first check, but im not giving those wages out for talk anymore. :no:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

HardWorks said:


> That's funny. How about giving them the time and a half for the weekend overtime.


Something to look at. Maybe raise moral a bit. Although they better be blowing and going to be earning another 3.62 an hour :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

It's legal to pay anyone anything you want as long as it's at least minimum wage. That includes lowering your wage. I once had a foreman that made a humongous mistake that cost 10's of thousands of dollars on two tilt-ups. He was a friend of the owners so the owner demoted hom to a carpenter which came with a pay cut.


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## HardWorks (Aug 6, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> It's legal to pay anyone anything you want as long as it's at least minimum wage. That includes lowering your wage. I once had a foreman that made a humongous mistake that cost 10's of thousands of dollars on two tilt-ups. He was a friend of the owners so the owner demoted hom to a carpenter which came with a pay cut.


Not true. You can demote some one which in your case happened and agreed upon by both parties. But you can't just lower a guys pay with out agreement from both parties.


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## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

I think in mn you lower a wage by 15%.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

HardWorks said:


> Not true. You can demote some one which in your case happened and agreed upon by both parties. But you can't just lower a guys pay with out agreement from both parties.


That's only if the parties are under contract. You have to pay them what was agreed, until you stop him and tell him "from this point forward", they will accept a lower wage from now on or there's no more work, especially if the worker didn't deserve the wage he was hired for. This is an "at will" state you may fire someone for any reason that's not discriminatory. That includes if you think he didn't deserve the pay he's getting.

What I'm trying to say, you can fire him for not taking the agreement. So you can give him an option, either take it or leave it.


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