# Questions about residential wiring codes and practices



## Henry Bockman (Sep 29, 2005)

I'm hoping that you all can help me out with something, my son is doing a project for school and he needs to get some insight from electricians. Can you take a minute to help him out, I'd really appreciate it!



How often do you NEED to use a nail plate to protect the wires?
Is it cost productive/effective to use the nail plate in all cases to satisfy the inspectors?
What are the normal processes to determine if and when you use a nail plate?
Would you prefer to use the nail plate or is there some other method to accomplish the same goal of protecting the electrical wiring strung in areas that the walls will be sheathed with some type of wallboard?
What are the problems you encounter with the current methods?
What, if you know it, is the percentage of time that more wires than one are pulled throughout the same hole?
What is your preferred hole dimension for pulling a single three wire romex type wire?
What is your preferred hole dimension for pulling two three wire romex type wires?
If a 12-2 wire is inadequate for the potential load what is the preferred wire size to carry the expected load?** *How often is it needed to be installed?** * Does the hole need to be increased in size to accommodate the larger wires needed?** *Do you have any idea what percentage of the time this might be required?
What do you, as an electrical contractor, see as a better way to accomplish this task/requirement.
Do you feel the code will get more or less stringent as new homes are built?

What state do you work in?


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Henry Bockman said:


> I'm hoping that you all can help me out with something, my son is doing a project for school and he needs to get some insight from electricians. Can you take a minute to help him out, I'd really appreciate it!
> [*]How often do you NEED to use a nail plate to protect the wires?


300.4(A)(1)




Henry Bockman said:


> [*]Is it cost productive/effective to use the nail plate in all cases to satisfy the inspectors?


If you mean for every hole you drill? Never. If you mean for holes that fall under 300.4(A)(1), then 100%.




Henry Bockman said:


> [*]What are the normal processes to determine if and when you use a nail plate?


300.4(A)(1)



Henry Bockman said:


> [*]Would you prefer to use the nail plate or is there some other method to accomplish the same goal of protecting the electrical wiring strung in areas that the walls will be sheathed with some type of wallboard?


Diamond-encrusted titanium with gold-pressed latinum encasement and a baseplate of prefabricated amulite, but that's a bit on the pricey side. So I find it cheaper just to put the holes in the middle of the 2-bys.



Henry Bockman said:


> [*]What are the problems you encounter with the current methods?


Nail plates are far from nail-proof.













Henry Bockman said:


> [*]What, if you know it, is the percentage of time that more wires than one are pulled throughout the same hole?


Wires, or cables? Big difference, you know!




Henry Bockman said:


> [*]What is your preferred hole dimension for pulling a single three wire romex type wire?


About yay big.




Henry Bockman said:


> [*]What is your preferred hole dimension for pulling two three wire romex type wires?


Same size. No need to constantly change bits all day.




Henry Bockman said:


> [*]If a 12-2 wire is inadequate for the potential load what is the preferred wire size to carry the expected load?** *


10. Or 8. Or 6. Or 4. Or 2. Or 1. Or 0. Or 00. Or 000. Or 0000. Or 250. Or 300. Or 350. Or 400. Or 500......



Henry Bockman said:


> How often is it needed to be installed?** *


Depends on the load.



Henry Bockman said:


> Does the hole need to be increased in size to accommodate the larger wires needed?** *


Well.... yeah!



Henry Bockman said:


> Do you have any idea what percentage of the time this might be required?


Nope.



Henry Bockman said:


> [*]What do you, as an electrical contractor, see as a better way to accomplish this task/requirement.


Proper instructions to field personnel.




Henry Bockman said:


> [*]Do you feel the code will get more or less stringent as new homes are built?


Hmmmm... the first NEC was 56 pages and fit in your shirt pocket.......



Henry Bockman said:


> What state do you work in?


Utter Confusion. Or Iowa....... no difference.


----------



## one man show (Dec 20, 2010)

*first NEC*

The first NEC was published by Mutual Fire insurance companies in 1899 and is 58 pages

Inspection department
associated factory mutual fire insurance companies
general offices 31 milk st room 63
boston mass.


----------



## one man show (Dec 20, 2010)

*First NEC*

I think that was the first 

if u know of an earlier one id love to know


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

one man show said:


> The first NEC was published by Mutual Fire insurance companies in 1899 and is 58 pages
> ........


Incorrect. Look at the very first page of any recent NEC.


----------



## Henry Bockman (Sep 29, 2005)

That's alright guys, maybe that's how he measures stuff on his jobs too, you never know.

Can anyone else answer the questions also so I can get more input on the questions? He's supposed to compare the answers from at least ten contractors, but the more he can get, the better pool of data he will have to work with.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

That's what I thought.


----------



## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Henry Bockman said:


> Can anyone else answer the questions also so I can get more input on the questions? He's supposed to compare the answers from at least ten contractors, but the more he can get, the better pool of data he will have to work with.


Why doesn't "he" do his own homework? What does "he" learn when dad does it for him? Sounds to me like dad is teaching "him" exactly the wrong things about life.

I've helped out students in the past. In order to get that help, they (the student, not his parent) must make an appointment with me, be there on time, and personally ask me the questions. At that point, he can get real meaningful answers. Generally that involves actually being at a job site so the answers can be easily put into context.


----------



## one man show (Dec 20, 2010)

Henry Bockman said:


> That's alright guys, maybe that's how he measures stuff on his jobs too, you never know.
> 
> Can anyone else answer the questions also so I can get more input on the questions? He's supposed to compare the answers from at least ten contractors, but the more he can get, the better pool of data he will have to work with.


gutter cleaning, power washing and wildlife trapping commenting on the electrical code??? Really?
Thats like a proctologist doing brain surgery


----------



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

From what I remember about nail plates is if the wire is close enough to the edge of a stud to where an 1 5/8" drywall screw will hit it, then it needs a nail plate. But when there is a shear wall and 2 1/2" nails are used, the wires are unprotected. Electricians won't bother to put them in because they are not required when there is a chance of a shear wall nail penetrating. 

I can remember at times framing, I would try and get my guys to sheet the walls before the electricians could get to it. Because I knew the electricians would be too lazy to add a few extra plates when they weren't required to.


----------



## one man show (Dec 20, 2010)

KennMacMoragh said:


> From what I remember about nail plates is if the wire is close enough to the edge of a stud to where an 1 5/8" drywall screw will hit it, then it needs a nail plate. But when there is a shear wall and 2 1/2" nails are used, the wires are unprotected. Electricians won't bother to put them in because they are not required when there is a chance of a shear wall nail penetrating.
> 
> I can remember at times framing, I would try and get my guys to sheet the walls before the electricians could get to it. Because I knew the electricians would be too lazy to add a few extra plates when they weren't required to.


code says when the conductor is within 1 1/4 inches of edge of framing member


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

one man show said:


> code says when the conductor is within 1 1/4 inches of edge of framing member


The code says when the HOLE is within 1¼" of the edge.............


----------



## Doctor Handyman (Mar 13, 2012)

one man show said:


> Thats like a proctologist doing brain surgery


I always wondered which specialty treated those with chit for brains.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

thom said:


> Why doesn't "he" do his own homework?
> I've helped out students in the past. In order to get that help, they (the student, not his parent) must make an appointment with me.. At that point, he can get real meaningful answers...so the answers can be easily put into context.


I agree! 

Now, I'll be the first one to say that there is no such thing as a "stupid" question, but I am guessing that the teacher put some very basic elementary questions into that list just in case one of his students decided to let the internet do their homework for them.

For instance, the question of, "Do bigger cables require bigger holes?" makes you slap yourself on the forehead and say, "Duuuh! Of course!" HOWEVER, when you ask that same question to an electrician in person, it opens up a dialogue between the student and the professional. 

And I believe that the teacher is wise enough to know if the student actually did his homework or if he "googled" it because the teacher is probably going to ask the students, "What else did you learn outside of this list of questions?"


----------



## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

480sparky

That picture you posted is nuts He could have easily nailed that rafter tie on the opposite side what a moron.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> 480sparky
> 
> That picture you posted is nuts He could have easily nailed that rafter tie on the opposite side what a moron.


That's typical of other trades. They either don't give a f**k or the first thing they learned in trade school is, "F**K the electricians!"


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> That's typical of other trades. They either don't give a f**k or the first thing they learned in trade school is, "F**K the electricians!"


I dunno, looks like the electrician was guilty in this case. I don't see anything in that pic requiring the hole to be so close to the surface. :whistling


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> I dunno, looks like the electrician was guilty in this case. I don't see anything in that pic requiring the hole to be so close to the surface. :whistling



Guilty of _what_, exactly?


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Disregard for the other trades. Those plates are a PITA just when trying to hang drywall flat, not to mention situations like in that pic.

But never fear, plumbers make electricians' trespasses look insignificant. :laughing:

Not that the framers give them much choice sometimes...


----------



## one man show (Dec 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Guilty of _what_, exactly?


dont sweat it! some guys, all they know to do is make sawdust. take thier nail gun away and they're like a child again. plumbing whats that, electrical huh?, fire dampers duh!! ill bet hes never opened a code book. any code book!


----------

