# contractors V plumbers



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Driftwood said:


> GET OVER YOURSELVES , I even pack lead joints NOW


*Which you learned online from another forum.*


----------



## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike and others... 

We realize we're not on the front lines of risking our lives for the general public, but at the same time, we realize the responsibility of doing our job wells. The consequences for bad work can be loss of life. 

I'm sorry, but I've never known a painter to kill someone with a bad coat of latex paint, or an irresponsible sheet rocker making a football team sick from a bad three coat job.

Nor have I ever heard of a trim carpenter setting fire to an occupied building or blowing it up nailing up crown moulding.

We work with dangerous, nasty stuff that most people wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. We do risk our health almost daily. And yes, those of us that work in confined spaces or in excavation in the trenches risk our lives daily. When was the last time your tile setter risked his life for his occupation? 

We give our occupation the respect it deserves because we see the dangers involved. Only an idiot would consider that there is no difference in doing a job by following the correct steps, and doing a job safely. Just because the idiot plumbers haven't killed themselves or someone else yet doesn't mean that 20 others just like than haven't either. 

People get sick from back flow and cross connection issues every day. Every day! Its just not quite as exciting as a brunette from Alaska being named to run as VP. 

No one cares that an infant dies from dehydration caused by a bacteria introduced by a cross connection from the heating system to the potable water system. It's not news.

So ya, we're proud. Damned proud. The reason is, we can see the trees for the forest, and we know which trees can kill you. So, tell us we're idiots, and beg us to explain why we feel that consulting someone local that you can trust and that knows their business is just being grumpy, mean and unfriendly. 

We've hashed this subject out more than once.

The answer is simple. Bad plumbing kills. It has the potential to kill entire civilizations, as one theory one on the demise of the Roman Empire purports.

Search the internet and look for death and sickness caused by cross connection, gas explosions, gas inhalations, back flow, contamination from human sewage, etc. 

I think you will find that much of Chicago was killed not once, but on two separate occasions due to contaminated water. 

Plumbing is serious stuff, just like electrical is. Framing is as well. Concrete and mansonary work as well. 

But of all those trades, bad plumbers can kill more people faster than any other screw up by other bad tradesmen. 

If you've been watching the news, you'll notice that Mmuch of the Houston metro area is under water right now. Care to take a drink of their municipal water without boiling first? You'd be OK today, but how about in two days? They are under a boil order for two weeks at a minimum.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Fuzzing Plumbers!!!!



However weak this may be!


----------



## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *I'm very surprised this comment comes from you, you're in sales and part of that is putting yourself in others shoes.*
> 
> *I highly doubt you walk into a homeowners house and hammer them with why their obligated to hire you...you have to think the way they think to understand what they want.*
> 
> ...



I agree with most of this post again but.

Your not obligated to enlighten me BUT. A contractor like me likes to have answers and know the process so I can make an educated answer decision on what needs to be done on a job.

I don't want your job, but I do want to spot a hack plumber a mile away and I can only do that with knowledge

This should not be a plumber versus a remodeler thing. It should be a plumber vs a hack remodeler or remodeler vs a hack plumber thing.

Being knowlegeable and cocky is a plus in my eyes some people hate that. I look for it in a sub/employee.

If a homeowner calls me an says my carpenter, plumber, electrician did something wrong/bad I know they are usually full of it 99%.

Because I have a skill carpenter, plumber or electrician working for me.

A HACK IS A HACK with or without the info he still isn't going to call you.

Informing me/us will not make me a hack and steal your work I Just want to be in the know. A hack will f-up it up anyway even with your explanation/advice. 

You are not feeding hacks giving info here you will be education me/us why a plumber is need and how to prepare for them and when to call a plumber out to do a job.

just my 2 cents


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

And I do think that this entire argument can be summed up by that one itty, bitty word in the Title of the Post. That my friends IS something to think about! It is a mindset that apparently breeds a less that stellar attitude.

Not that the defense of plumbing and using a Licensed plumber is unjustified.


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*RB, you and I are pretty much on the same page.*

*What irritates mne is the fact that on this forum one gc comes in and asserts I or someone else told Mike to ask a plumber.*

*At a given point, statements like that come off as if we're obligated to give out tips and advice, as well as suffer the insults and jabs.*

*I just don't see many, if any, plumbers in the contractor forums asking how to frame a wall or what the load capacity is for 2X10's.*

*I NEVER see plumbers there accusing GC's of wihthholding info when new members go in and ask "how much".*

*So, why are we expected to do the equivalence?*


----------



## Proud Plumber (Sep 9, 2008)

In FL the general contractor can touch what ever he wants except... Plumbing, A/C, Electrical, and Roofing. I love it when you go to cable the drain line and find pressure fittings. We are the worst state for trades education in my opinion. People really do not understand the dangers of methane gasses, contaminated water etc....


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

To everybody who got upset with what I said, it was meant to. Those who know me probably either knew that or wondered WTF?

Like I said I don't disrespect plumbers or respect them, I could careless if you're a plumber or a garage door installer, neither one of you is above the other. When we all meet in the bar the only thing that matters is how you shoot pool, if we meet on the job site all that matters is how well you do your job.

Stuff like


> Thats right cause you set out to look for the cheapest plumbers you can find and you get what you pay for:thumbsup:


is about as relevant as


> LOL, you could if you were smart do what I do in probably 3 days. You see all I have to do is HIRE a plumber. Collect the great big check and give you a little one. :thumbsup: See how that works! :laughing:


Both are flippant and not based on any evidence to go on by anybody to know if they are true or not.

Face facts boys - you don't know me, and I don't know you, this is just a collection of anonymous typingo on the Internet. When the computer is turned off and each of us walks out the door in the morning to go to work none of anything said on this forum means a hill of beans.

Plumbers want to type to everybody to go ask their plumber or what did you plumber say, go for it, who gives a sh*t. 

Pex is putting you all out of business anyways...:laughing:

LOL, just kidding... I can't resist, that's about how serious this all is to me. Go get worked up about it if you want.

I'll keep asking ANY question I want to WHENEVER I want to, you can answer it ANY way you want to WHENEVER you want to. It doesn't really make any difference to me. 

Have at it.:thumbsup:


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Just ANOTHER Plumbing thread gone bonkers. I wonder why that is?


----------



## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

This happens in EVERY trade and it's just part of life. There are always guys doing work that they either don't know how to do or that they aren't suppose to be doing (no license or whatever). 

Bottom line.... if you see a thread that you don't want to respond to or answer then don't. It's pretty simple.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Sep 6, 2008)

And then there's always the guys that thrive on confrontation. :whistling

I started this thread to see if perhaps we could put some of the bickering to rest. Apparently not. I've said before that I can type page after page of factual information defending the licensing of plumbers but I get tired of doing the same thing over and over. Besides that's the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I can't change your minds, and I doubt any of the plumbers and contactors here will either. That is why I emplore you to get in touch with your State Plumbing Boards and get the rules. They are not suggestions, they are the law. In N.H. it is a felony to plumb without a license. If your receive money or renumeration for any act that involves the repair, alteration, or installation of plumbing without a license you are subject to prosecution. Again, I didn't make the law, the Plumbing board did. So did yours most likely. I am truley sorry if you feel the laws are unfair or unjust, never the less they are the law.
How many of us would get into a tractor trailer truck without the proper training and license and take it for a spin? How about an airplane? Heck, I have flight simulator and I never crash, does that qualify me to fly?


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

nhmaster3015 said:


> Besides that's the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


Bill and Bob say hello!


----------



## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

nhmaster3015 said:


> And then there's always the guys that thrive on confrontation. :whistling
> 
> I started this thread to see if perhaps we could put some of the bickering to rest. Apparently not. I've said before that I can type page after page of factual information defending the licensing of plumbers but I get tired of doing the same thing over and over. Besides that's the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I can't change your minds, and I doubt any of the plumbers and contactors here will either. That is why I emplore you to get in touch with your State Plumbing Boards and get the rules. They are not suggestions, they are the law. In N.H. it is a felony to plumb without a license. If your receive money or renumeration for any act that involves the repair, alteration, or installation of plumbing without a license you are subject to prosecution. Again, I didn't make the law, the Plumbing board did. So did yours most likely. I am truley sorry if you feel the laws are unfair or unjust, never the less they are the law.
> How many of us would get into a tractor trailer truck without the proper training and license and take it for a spin? How about an airplane? Heck, I have flight simulator and I never crash, does that qualify me to fly?



What you have to do is learn to let it roll off your back.

I think your intention was well intended. If you let people affect you idea/thoughts, then you fail.

I am a good contractor. I had a homeowner last week call me a no good snake oil peddler. 

Why? because I quoted a kitchen remodel with plans and permits and everyone else was 3g's less without plans or permits.

Am I a snake oil seller maybe. But I am a snake oil seller with plans and permits.:thumbsup:

You can't please all the people all of the time. But you can please some of the people all of the time.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Sep 6, 2008)

:thumbsup:


----------



## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

nhmaster3015 said:


> :thumbsup:


!!!

Not only am I a snake oil peddeler. I am gonna drive by this job for the next 3 months. If anything goes on at this house I will be a snake oil peddling snitch!!!. Sorry Malco :furious:


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> !!!
> 
> Not only am I a snake oil peddeler. I am gonna drive by this job for the next 3 months. If anything goes on at this house I will be a snake oil peddling snitch!!!. Sorry Malco :furious:



No offense taken!!! But I see that you are sensitive to my feelings. Yer Swell!


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Driftwood said:


> GET OVER YOURSELVES , I even pack lead joints NOW



So does my first year apprentice, what's your point?


----------



## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

MALCO.New.York said:


> No offense taken!!! But I see that you are sensitive to my feelings. Yer Swell!


I hate snitches but the way He talked to me. I wanted to smack him so bad but I saw the handcuffs in my future. SO i am gonna take the puck way out


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> I hate snitches but the way He talked to me. I wanted to smack him so bad but I saw the handcuffs in my future.


I can accept that...Oh Yes I Can!


----------



## Driftwood (Feb 15, 2004)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Which you learned online from another forum.*


Yes That's true. And Your point is?:whistling


----------



## Driftwood (Feb 15, 2004)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> So does my first year apprentice, what's your point?


 My point is,some plumbers are willing to be helpful . One is Your hero plumber Rick. I guess He doesn't feel threatened ,like Yourself and some other clowns here. :whistling


----------



## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, my plumber, who I like and is a very good Master plumber always gives me remodeling advice. Usually about structural and then design issues. He's real big on the 5000 hours of school rap.
I have over 35 years in remodeling from high rise to residential. The plumbers I know now are pretty cool guys, But I met some losers too. As Mike said, we are all equal if we work our job professionally.
I am tired of the old "Plumbers protect the Health" story. Sh*t, roofers keep your bed dry. Electricians light the way ect.
We are brothers building America. Equally capable, anyone can be a carpenter or a plumber, anyone. But not everyone works to be good at it.
Ethics and pride belong to us all.:thumbsup:


----------



## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

Just stirring the pot, I guess we need to head over to their threads and flood them with garbage as they do ours....


----------



## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

Driftwood said:


> My point is,some plumbers are willing to be helpful . One is Your hero plumber Rick. I guess He doesn't feel threatened ,like Yourself and some other clowns here. :whistling


Why should we feel threatened? We understand what it takes to do plumbing. Judging by past posts on here others are lacking. There are only a handful of posters that have a problem when we answer posts and if its not liked then ignore it. By posting it says the only thing that is wanted is confrontation not answers.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Sep 6, 2008)

Driftwood said:


> My point is,some plumbers are willing to be helpful . One is Your hero plumber Rick. I guess He doesn't feel threatened ,like Yourself and some other clowns here. :whistling


Notice who hurls the first insults here. No one has called you a hack, an idiot, incompetent, a moron, looser, or waste of space. Why do you feel the need to indulge in name calling?


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Sep 6, 2008)

silvertree said:


> Well, my plumber, who I like and is a very good Master plumber always gives me remodeling advice. Usually about structural and then design issues. He's real big on the 5000 hours of school rap.
> I have over 35 years in remodeling from high rise to residential. The plumbers I know now are pretty cool guys, But I met some losers too. As Mike said, we are all equal if we work our job professionally.
> I am tired of the old "Plumbers protect the Health" story. Sh*t, roofers keep your bed dry. Electricians light the way ect.
> We are brothers building America. Equally capable, anyone can be a carpenter or a plumber, anyone. But not everyone works to be good at it.
> Ethics and pride belong to us all.:thumbsup:


I don't think any one of us has put down any of the other trades. We all do necessary and important work. Again, note who's throwing the insults around.


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Driftwood said:


> and some other clowns here. :whistling


*Those are some big words*, and who is this directed at? I guess it could be directed at me, or maybe at KTS or at Proud Plumber, I take this as a personal attack towards every single plumber on here. 

Driftwood I do hope you will rephrase your statement.


----------



## Driftwood (Feb 15, 2004)

I'm a licensed G.C. That legally plumbs His own jobs, in My state ,Ca. 
When I'm on this page, I constantly see G.C.S attacked for asking a question.
I'm not going anywhere, If I see this ,expect it back! Simple,give respect and 
get it. This crap doesn't happen everywhere! Need some help with 7018 vert. or overhead,I'll help.I;m also a cert. welder. I love to help ,and do all the time on weld Talk. Idon't come here or there to belittle anyone. And as You can See some of Us GC will Just dump Back. Get use to it. RANT OVER!


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Your not giving respect, you just called us all clowns, I never called you a clown, you owe us an apology.


----------



## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

rant over:laughing:


----------



## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

Is the rant over because you cant strong arm your opinion over on us or you just give up?


----------



## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

Hi all,
let me give my two cents,
About a month ago I asked about a self priming trap. Never did I contemplate doing the install myself as I have a contract with my plumber to rough the job for a cost of over $20,000.00. I just wanted to undestand how it worked before my plumber got to the job a few days later.
Now, I found the information I needed within a few minutes via Google as well as a tutorial by Double A. But the description from Double was more complete and better explained. Isn't this why we post questions here?
To get information from guys we trust.
What I am getting at here is there is nothing wrong, in my opinion in asking a fellow tradesman for some help. After all we are all licensed and insured (I hope) and are in this crazy profession together.
Thats all folks,
Mike


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

silvertree said:


> Well, my plumber, who I like and is a very good Master plumber always gives me remodeling advice. Usually about structural and then design issues. He's real big on the 5000 hours of school rap.
> I have over 35 years in remodeling from high rise to residential. The plumbers I know now are pretty cool guys, But I met some losers too. As Mike said, we are all equal if we work our job professionally.
> I am tired of the old "Plumbers protect the Health" story. Sh*t, roofers keep your bed dry. Electricians light the way ect.
> We are brothers building America. Equally capable, anyone can be a carpenter or a plumber, anyone. But not everyone works to be good at it.
> Ethics and pride belong to us all.:thumbsup:


I second that motion!


----------



## CA PLMBR (Sep 13, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> What the hell are you rambling about? You know you are defending plumbing as if it is the Holy Grail or something. Give me a break, these are trades, whether one of us is nailing on siding, running a back hoe, putting up wall paper, gluing PVC together or pouring a foundation...
> 
> it's construction not freak'n fixing some kids cleft pallet in a 3rd world country...
> 
> ...


Hey Mike,
I'm sorry you feel that a monkey can learn what you do over a summer. I make that assumption only because we can only describe what we are in contact with. Your confusing installers with craftsmen. Trust me I know about illegals. I work in California and have taught illegals while working for other contractors I even learned to speak Spanish in the process. Some you can teach to install. However most people (that means legals and illegals) can only be taught to copy what they see. Hence they are only installers. True craftsmen are unfortunately hard to come by. So before you lump us all together with you please take a moment to think...Are you an installer or a craftsmen...an artisan?


----------



## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

Ca Plmbr head over to plumbingzone.com. We mostly hang out there.


----------



## CA PLMBR (Sep 13, 2008)

One thing I see as a common theme in the "Plumbing" forum of this wonderful site is that some people seem overly hostile about a plumber talking about the "health and safety of the public" mantra. I know it seems that plumbers put themselves on a pedestal but thats just taking pride in what we do. Just as a carpenter (not some hack with a nail gun) would not be able to sleep at night if he knew that he put the wrong lag bolts on hangars that hold up a balcony that some mother holding her toddler in her arms to watch the sunset could fall to their death due to his negligence. Not less important in my mind. Maybe we're just not hearing enough passion out of you Carpenters/ GCs / Remodelers. Or possibly it's because we're in the PLUMBING forum lol.


----------



## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

http://www.plumbingzone.com CA Plmbr click on this link


----------



## plumberman (Jul 14, 2008)

Good you found it....


----------



## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

CA PLMBR said:


> One thing I see as a common theme in the "Plumbing" forum of this wonderful site is that some people seem overly hostile about a plumber talking about the "health and safety of the public" mantra. I know it seems that plumbers put themselves on a pedestal but thats just taking pride in what we do. Just as a carpenter (not some hack with a nail gun) would not be able to sleep at night if he knew that he put the wrong lag bolts on hangars that hold up a balcony that some mother holding her toddler in her arms to watch the sunset could fall to their death due to his negligence. Not less important in my mind. Maybe we're just not hearing enough passion out of you Carpenters/ GCs / Remodelers. Or possibly it's because we're in the PLUMBING forum lol.



You don't put lag bolts in hangers:no:

The toddler in his mothers arms on the balcony falling watching the sunset thing

I don't know but the other guys but I had to wipe back a few tears :laughing:


Just messing with you. 

Point well taken :thumbsup: 

I think most of the guys here take their work very seriously. But you will always have someone that bucks the system or has different views


----------



## CA PLMBR (Sep 13, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> You don't put lag bolts in hangers:no:
> 
> The toddler in his mothers arms on the balcony falling watching the sunset thing
> 
> ...


Thank you rbs,
The only request I have is this
If you correct me please correct me so I do not make the same mistake again. You nail a hanger? You don't use hangers for balconies? I can swear I've seen lag bolts and washers used for hangers before. Maybe I was learning from those nail gun toting hacks. See I'm a plumber not a framer. I thought I had that one nailed too...get it NAILED, aw crud never mind......


----------



## Driftwood (Feb 15, 2004)

I am sorry for the Clown comment, Driftwood


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> You do make a few assumtions also, the latest one being it's a slow market and we have time on our hands, I'm not even sure what you mean by that perhaps you mean we(gCs) are slow so we are going to turn our own wrenches instead of hiring a plumber? You also make a big assumption with a collective WE - in regard to where WE draw the line. Your fellow plumbers here all aren't in that collective WE based on replys to other plumbing threads. You draw the line there and you know what? That's fine. Like I said I have no problem with you or anybody else or what they decide to reply with. Variety keeps things interesting.
> 
> This is where the trades meet, I hope it never stops.


*NO assumptions, that was an intentional/reciprocal crack for the lovely thread you opened on "How much"...one good turn deserves another.:no:*

*The "WE" is a "WE", you got an answer from a fella the had just joined, and though there may be a plumber or two that will give you specific detailed info on plumbing, the majority doesn't.*

*I'll say this one more time, it IS a meeting place for contractors, I and other members are more than happy to go over detailed info on business matters, marketing, sales and a plethora of other trade related info.*

*When a brand new member goes into the contractors section and asks "How much?"...he generally gets shot down.*

*When a member comes into the plumbing forum to ask "How to?"...he generally gets shot down.*

*You miss the whole point...*
*While many senior members here pull out their guns and ready for battle for the right to free information, I think the major concern with plumbers is the fact that this site has frequently attracted new members seeking info to do things they shouldn't be.*

*The recent "Nick" character was a perfect example, he claimed to be checking on his plumbers way of installing a shower system, then came back to gloat that he lied to get the info and did it himself.*

*THIS forum attracts pro's, many of us joined because we got sick of the pressure's in other forums to be the "good guy" and openly give away trade info that takes years of blood, sweat and tears to learn.*

*When Marc/MD came asking for info on a gas main, he got answers.(despite his continued jabs at us)*
*The problem then becomes newer members protesting when we aren't so anxious to give them the same type info.*

*The simple fact is, "Ask your plumber" is often the BEST advice for someone with no license looking to do something they shouldn't be.*

*Effectively, we seem to have non-plumbers coming here to say we shouldn't be allowed to say that.*

*To not advise someone that they are about to break the law, or risk injury or death and they should contact a licensed plumber would be bad advice in many situations.*


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Double-A said:


> Of piffle! I do and I have on more than one occasion. Sheesh.


 
*This epitomizes a point of mine.*

*Other forums might have plumbers scrapping to out do eachother on the quality of information they dole out to perfect strangers as they compete to look good, no considerations given to the fact that they may be encouraging dangerous or unethical actions.*

*At first I thought maybe it was just my state, or a few minority states that teach us against DIY from day one in school, apparently it isn't.*

*If I were to offer DIY advice to an unlicensed stranger who walked into the supply house, I'd get some pretty dirty looks from the other plumbers there.*

*Why would that be any different online?*


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Driftwood said:


> I am sorry for the Clown comment, Driftwood


Thanks You


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

neolitic said:


> I will say I disagree...
> and back out of here.



How 'bout them Colts!!!!


----------



## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Man, I'm just gonna hug the first plumber I see tomorrow, in a manly way of course:laughing:.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

silvertree said:


> Man, I'm just gonna hug the first plumber I see tomorrow, in a manly way of course:laughing:.


****!!!!:laughing:


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

MALCO.New.York said:


> How 'bout them Colts!!!!


I'm gonna have to get major medical.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

neolitic said:


> I'm gonna have to get major medical.



It was effed up from the beginning...But Peyton and Adam made it happen...........

Cardiac Infarctions are not acceptable results of a damn Football Game!!!!


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

fftopic: Football talk is fine and dandy, but take it to off topic please, not being a ass here, (ok so I am):laughing: fftopic:


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Ron The Plumber said:


> fftopic: Football talk is fine and dandy, but take it to off topic please, not being a ass here, (ok so I am):laughing: fftopic:


Still got your Mod hat on? :clap::laughing:


----------



## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *This epitomizes a point of mine.*
> 
> *Other forums might have plumbers scrapping to out do eachother on the quality of information they dole out to perfect strangers as they compete to look good, no considerations given to the fact that they may be encouraging dangerous or unethical actions.*
> 
> ...


We live and learn, Grump. I've learned that some folks here deserve some consideration and others don't. I take Nathan's advice, if I don't have anything to add, I will usually keep my thoughts to myself. 

I do however get more and more understanding of people and more compassionate of their needs as I get older. I find that polarizing my thoughts on something do more harm to me in the long run than just going with the flow and following my own drum. If this leads me to be hand down some technical information, or to point out some details to watch out for, so be it. I can live with that. I don't feel I'm taking anything away from anyone by doing this. I may be wrong here, I have in the past and will again without doubt.


----------



## nhmaster3015 (Sep 6, 2008)

matt Castle played an absolutly flawless game today. Sad to say the same could not be said for the hapless NY Jets. :thumbup:


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

nhmaster3015 said:


> matt Castle played an absolutly flawless game today. Sad to say the same could not be said for the hapless NY Jets. :thumbup:


How did Matt Cassell do?


:whistling


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

nhmaster3015 said:


> matt Castle played an absolutly flawless game today. Sad to say the same could not be said for the hapless NY Jets. :thumbup:


*I was worried he'd flail as a rookie, no such thing.*

*HOWEVER, after watching repeated sacks, I betcha Belichek had a few choice words with the offense tonight.*


----------



## uaplumber (May 21, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> What the hell are you rambling about? You know you are defending plumbing as if it is the Holy Grail or something. Give me a break, these are trades, whether one of us is nailing on siding, running a back hoe, putting up wall paper, gluing PVC together or pouring a foundation...
> 
> it's construction not freak'n fixing some kids cleft pallet in a 3rd world country...
> 
> ...


Yup alot of health problems caused by improper siding installation. Remember everyone, Call A Sider!!!!. I kill me, hah!


----------



## uaplumber (May 21, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> Whatever you guys want to think. You're not brain surgeons, you aren't in Iraq under fire protecting our country, you're not a fireman going into a burning building saving children.
> 
> I'm not putting down plumbers, but I'm not putting you on a pedestal either, anymore than any other trade.
> 
> ...


Ok, there are many Plumbers in the reserves, reserves go to Iraq first.
Many areas have volunteer fire fighters, one of my apprentices is one.


----------



## CA PLMBR (Sep 13, 2008)

*Cheer up!*

Maybe I'm confused here Grumpy...I understood this as a forum to share ideas. If were not talking about our profession then what are we here for? I am not afraid of losing business because a DIY got information here. He could have gotten it from a a DIY Plumbers Handbook at Homer Depot. In my book that is a lot worse. At least here we can feel out the asker and decide whether to answer or not. I am not afraid of losing business to a DIY. I'll be the one they call when they flood their own house and have to explain to all their neighbors why they had a stream running from their front door. Bad news travels a lot faster. I'll be there to pick up the pieces. It takes a lot of time effort and sweat to learn what we know. Form some knucklehead to grab a post here and think all he has to do is run down to the nearest builders supply and Vala! he's a plumber. I don't think so. I train new people all the time. Some of them may end up being one of those guys on Craiglist moonlighting on my dime, however I will not stop teaching my profession and the way it's suppose to be done merely because it may be misused. I feel the information hidden is information wasted. This forum from what I can tell is a place to exchange thoughts and ideas about our industry. If I wanted to chat I'd go to www.lonelyplumber.com. I respect your opinion and appreciate your diligently defending the profession but you make it seem that things are all doom and gloom. Don't worry, be happy. :w00t:


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

(Crap, I posted this to the wrong thread)


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*CA, welcome to the forum.*

*I don't know how many other plumbing forums you've visited, but most revolve around offering DIY info.*

*I joined this one for the fact that it did not, it was strictly pro's.*

*In a slow market there has always been a tendancy for other trades to start wandering into work they shouldn't be doing to either increase profits or keep prices low to compete with the increased competition.*

*Our trade DOES become affected, especially on the service level.*

*I don't go into the construction area and ask how to frame an addition, pour a foundation or side a house.*

*If I wanted to learn how to do those things, I'd do the same thing I did to learn plumbing...put my time in under a pro.*

*OR...I'd pay someone for their knowledge & experience.*

*I'll put it this way....*

*If you saw a guy that took work from you by lowballing, who had no idea what he was doing....would you offer him a tutorial on how to do the job?*

*Observe the other area's in this forum, watch what happens when a new member enters and asks "How much do I charge...?".*

*They're generally alienated or ignored right off the bat.*

*Why would we be expected to be different?*


----------

