# New Code Coming



## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

More people die from fire in the home than in the work place. CPVC can be used for spinkler piping. Dry systems and anit=freeze loops are not needed. Wet systems can be protected from freezing by tenting sheet plastic over the pipe and then insulating. Or the insulation can be installed under the roof. I have seen both methods and they work. Of course, the naysayers will claim lots of leaks from the sprinkler pipe, and the mold issues and the exorbitant cost. Lots of wild claims, very little fact. I,personnally like sprinkler systems. They control the fire, which no other life safety system can do. 13D is not the same as 13. 13 is designed to save property, 13D is designed to save lives, not property. Less water flow and pressure. Clean-up can be a hassle. In 20+ years on the end of a hose, I never saw a fire that did not make a mess. And by the time we got on scene and started the 750 gpm and 1500 gpm pumpers, we put more water on the structure than any 1/2 " sprinkler head could. 

Are all of you members of NHA? Ever seen a working fire? Ever got to advance a hose line into a fire scene? Ever get to carry a body out of a fire scene? I have, and I will take a sprinklered building any time. As the bumper stickers on a couple of my vans reads "Sprinklers save lives"


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

I've seen the mess left behind from a flooded house. I can just imagine everything around me right now getting soaked down with a sprinkler system. ( I know what about fire) Its one thing to be in a high rise, but a house? If my house catches fire I can get out. I am a strong beleiver in smoke detectors, but sprinkler system I would turn off. It is my castle and I'll do what I want.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

fireguy said:


> More people die from fire in the home than in the work place.


Where are you getting that from?




fireguy said:


> CPVC can be used for spinkler piping. Dry systems and anit=freeze loops are not needed. Wet systems can be protected from freezing by tenting sheet plastic over the pipe and then insulating. Or the insulation can be installed under the roof. I have seen both methods and they work. Of course, the naysayers will claim lots of leaks from the sprinkler pipe, and the mold issues and the exorbitant cost. Lots of wild claims, very little fact. I,personnally like sprinkler systems. They control the fire, which no other life safety system can do. 13D is not the same as 13. 13 is designed to save property, 13D is designed to save lives, not property. Less water flow and pressure. Clean-up can be a hassle. In 20+ years on the end of a hose, I never saw a fire that did not make a mess. And by the time we got on scene and started the 750 gpm and 1500 gpm pumpers, we put more water on the structure than any 1/2 " sprinkler head could.
> 
> Are all of you members of NHA? Ever seen a working fire? Ever got to advance a hose line into a fire scene? Ever get to carry a body out of a fire scene? I have, and I will take a sprinklered building any time. As the bumper stickers on a couple of my vans reads "Sprinklers save lives"


So you're on the fence on this issue?






.


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## Mr.Renovator (Sep 26, 2008)

*sprinkler systems*

I live and work in Pg Co. MD,right next to WASH d.c.Our county has require residentual sprinklers in townhouses for many years, and now
residentual homes for about 5 years.The next closest counties don,t requie it but are trying to pass it now.Sprinklers save on the costs of remodeling after fires,and can save lives.Anybody think of this.They are very easy to install,and relocate for remodeling,NO MAINTENAINCE!And since they are part of the code they must be included in the price,whether they like it or not.Also,you can insure your hous for cheaper.
I dont approve or disapporve of them as a master remodeler.It seems that the contractors that have not heard of this code is unaware of some of the pros.And they only add about $5000.oo to our average 3000sf home.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

> =fireguy;503614]More people die from fire in the home than in the work place. CPVC can be used for spinkler piping. Dry systems and anit=freeze loops are not needed.


Uh, sure



> Wet systems can be protected from freezing by tenting sheet plastic over the pipe and then insulating.


Oh, I see. If I go to Florida for the winter and turn the heat to 50 degrees, you are saying your method is going to keep the pipes in the attic from freezing. Apparently you live in a very warm state. I have seen pipes with running water freeze around here.



> Or the insulation can be installed under the roof. I have seen both methods and they work.


Sure, whatever you say. You cannot stop a pipe from freezing unless there is a source of heat. If the pipe is in the attic, there (ideally) is no heat in the attic. Pipe freezes.



> Of course, the naysayers will claim lots of leaks from the sprinkler pipe, and the mold issues and the exorbitant cost. Lots of wild claims, very little fact.


Come on over to my house if January. I'll let you live in my attic with all the insulation you want. I'm betting you freeze. You game?



> I,personnally like sprinkler systems.


 Never said I didn't but they are expensive.



> They control the fire, which no other life safety system can do. 13D is not the same as 13. 13 is designed to save property, 13D is designed to save lives, not property. Less water flow and pressure. Clean-up can be a hassle


all the sprinkler system can do is save lives. They will cause as much damage as the fire itself to the house.



> . In 20+ years on the end of a hose, I never saw a fire that did not make a mess. And by the time we got on scene and started the 750 gpm and 1500 gpm pumpers, we put more water on the structure than any 1/2 " sprinkler head could.


the point? hosing down a house causes a lot of damage. It allows the occupants to get out. It destroys the house.

Life saved, property still gone. Not a bad deal, especially since the alternative is often property gone, life gone too.



> Are all of you members of NHA?


NHA?



> Ever seen a working fire?


yep



> Ever got to advance a hose line into a fire scene?


Never wanted to 



> Ever get to carry a body out of a fire scene?


 Never wanted to but have had several friends that did. One retired the next day.



> I have, and I will take a sprinklered building any time. As the bumper stickers on a couple of my vans reads "Sprinklers save lives"


Yes they do but that does not reduce the costs. As with many things, costs of building can really remove the possibility of many folks from ever owning a home. In a perfect world and all could afford this, fine, go for it. In our world where I know people that struggle to keep the heat on in the winter; tough to force this on them.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Here are some stats on odds of dying, http://www.nsc.org/research/odds.aspx

1 in 84 for car wreck and 1 in 1431 for fire. I would suggest that for modern construction with proper fireblocking, rated wall etc. the odds would be more like 1 in 3000 for fire. Regardless, i'd rather spend my dough on the 1 in 84 number.


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## iceman61 (Jul 26, 2007)

fireguy said:


> I have, and I will take a sprinklered building any time. As the bumper stickers on a couple of my vans reads "Sprinklers save lives"


That kinda goes without saying since your trade is Fire Suppression Equipment Sales & Service.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The National Association of home builders (NAHB) estimates it will add an aveage of $10,900 to the cost of a new home.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Another cross to bear in a tightening market. It is sad that the ICC can convene and effectively change a code that can impact thousands, and of course, their stock answer is they are protecting the homeowner/occupant.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Not many contractors are interested enough to join and PARTICIPATE enough. There are several categories that could fit contractors depending on your level of interest.

All code and standards groups are similar, but the ICC is a little more closed because of the indifference and lack of participation by contractors. Usually contractors just bid on what the plans say and do not wnat to make changes.

I was on the waiting list to be a voting member of ASTM committees(producer member) for 10 years before getting there. Similar with the ACI/MSJC which writes the masonry portion. When it comes to voting each member gets one vote no matter whether individual or corporate membership and some groups limit the number of vote from individuals from the same company.

It just takes dedication to be heard and have an effect.


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## BirmanBuilders (Aug 24, 2005)

It pays to have friends in high places. I spoke to one sprinkler fitter who told me that they're a great idea unless you have kids. He said he had heard lots of stories of kids messing with heads setting them off, kicking a ball around the house and breaking off a head, causing huge damage, hard wood floors ruined drywall, funiture, electronics. Smoke detectors and a fire extinguisher are usually enough, and also a good insurance policy. I would not like that amount of fragile sprinkler heads around my house, I know as a kid I would definitly be up on a chair messing with it after the parents told me never to touch it.


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## BirmanBuilders (Aug 24, 2005)

I also think it would be a great idea to have one fitted in every fireplace in the interests of carbon emissions from open fires, and maybe to ban hot water in case anyone burnt themselves. And what about the poor individuals who get elctrocuted, surely it should be mandatory to use candles instead of electric lights, but then what about the open flame and the hot wax! How have we ever survived this long surely it's because government knows best.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Just build out of better, more permanent inflambile waterials.

I had a group of 15 Russian/Siberian contractors looking at American construction. After looking at construction sites and model homes for several days they were puzzled.- Since they were very knowledgeable and polite, after looking at a $750,000 model log home, they managed to ask the question "Why do you live in homes and apartments built out of kindling and firewood".

The concept of fire trucks was relatively unknown to them. they had a philosophy that you should compertmentalize apartments and let individuals build out of what they wanted to risk. Naturally wood is not a preferred building material.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Great point. Firetrucks are pretty American....and the industry that supports prevention/detection/insurance.......


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