# When are the hack companies finally going to close down????



## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

No, a real compliment Mr Gun Shy.:laughing:

Seriously, if you have over 50% of your teeth and can recite the alphabet fairly well, there is no end of work for a tradesman here. It's such a precious city that no one wants to get their hands dirty. It's like San Francisco run by straight people.


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## perfect (Jan 29, 2008)

George Z said:


> Your parents must be proud of you.
> Now remove the content,
> you have a lot of catching up to do with your ethics.
> 
> ...


YES COLLEDGE PRO PAINTERS ARE WHERE MOST OF THE HACKS COME FROM USING LOW GRADE PRODUCT AND MINIMUM WAGE HELP WHOM RUIN MORE JOBS AND SCREW MORE CUSTOMERS THEN HOME DEPOT AND MAKE IT BAD FOR THE PRO"S AND YES SAFETY IS OPTIONAL FOR THESE CLOWNS:jester:


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

imagine if a painter used College Pros marketing, advertising and sales techniques...and coupled them with a superior product...imagine that:whistling

nah....it's more fun to deride them and call them hacks...


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

The college pro painters are hacks, But look at the college pro national company, its an extremely successful business, just look at all the money they extort from poor college kids every year. It really is a good business model.

So Im thinkin about starting my own, college pro bathrooms, college pro electrical, college pro roofing, whadda ya think?


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Patrick said:


> The college pro painters are hacks, But look at the college pro national company, its an extremely successful business, just look at all the money they extort from poor college kids every year. It really is a good business model.
> 
> So Im thinkin about starting my own, college pro bathrooms, college pro electrical, college pro roofing, whadda ya think?


to quote a very wise man....


haskings electric said:


> Daedalus was imprisoned in the Labyrinth along with his son Icarus. Daedalus constructed a pair of wings from wax and feathers for he and his son so they could escape the Labyrinth (I will not go into detail as to why Daedalus was imprisoned in the Labyrinth as this is a family oriented forum).
> 
> Daedalus told Icarus not to fly too close to the sun because his wings would melt, but as we all know Icarus did not listen.
> 
> Moral of the story: Listen to mahlere and you won't go wrong.


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

*Mike*, thank you.

*Any Season,* 
I am tired of doing this weekly, I apologize you were the person of the week. No, I have no idea how you run your business, making an assumption 
based on the College Pro connection and this specific issue was stupid. 
Maybe we will have an opportunity to exchange ideas in a more costructive way next time, if you would be ok with that.

*Mahlere,* 

*BuiltByMAC*, I agree with you, I don't like my site visually and is very dated.
I would love to get an opportunity to work on it again.
It is a workhorse though:

130 unique visits a day
Very low bounce rate
High conversion
and over 100 good leads a month.

If I could only make it pretty. Seriously I agree with you.

There is a possibillity this might have affected Google rankings, it has before.
so why not avoid it.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

George, You spelled color wrong on your website!

Just kidding


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

Patrick said:


> George, You spelled color wrong on your website!
> 
> Just kidding


Humour?


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## Any Season (Nov 19, 2007)

*George*

I originally built my site w/ sandvox for mac like 3 years ago and it was good but a little too homemade still. A month or so ago I hired a company which had me pick a template out of 3 we narrowed down to, then we used Joomla to edit everything. They did all of the setup then gave me a quick tutorial on Joomla and I'm ready to go. You should check Joomla's site out for yourself then google any template company you'd like. Also, I will get our other issue taken care of by this time next weekend...I am traveling this whole week.


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## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

Any Season- I checked out your site...nice work. Right after the part that you stole- :no: lol. you have a misprint-

Additional coats my be necessary for color changes, especially when going to or from yellow, (2) two coats are required.

my should be may.

I don't see anything wrong with your site vs George's site. Whatever, just start paintng. 
I hope that my words are considered valid due to my low posting numbers. If I had over 8,000 posts, I think that I would maybe work a little more and not post so much.:w00t:


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## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

Don't listen to a word I say, only 163 posts to date


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## Any Season (Nov 19, 2007)

*re:*



perfect said:


> YES COLLEDGE PRO PAINTERS ARE WHERE MOST OF THE HACKS COME FROM USING LOW GRADE PRODUCT AND MINIMUM WAGE HELP WHOM RUIN MORE JOBS AND SCREW MORE CUSTOMERS THEN HOME DEPOT AND MAKE IT BAD FOR THE PRO"S AND YES SAFETY IS OPTIONAL FOR THESE CLOWNS:jester:


I am a little partial on this one, but I love to here from the contractors like this. So out of curiosity, what is your documented safety plan?

Do you, on every jobsite, have:

-At least one OSHA approved harness
-An MSDS for all products you use
-A first aid kit
-Contact info and documentation for WC (if you even have WC) incase of an accident
-Emergency contact #'s on hand for all employees

I did then and still do that now in my own biz, and it is required that all CPP franchisees do as well and are provided with all of this by the company. Not saying that all do, but unless you can say this for ALL of your jobsites, and I don't mean 1/2 that list in the cab of your truck, you really have no business commenting on CPP or anyone else.

As far as low grade products, EVERY CPP franchisee is set up with a Sherwin Williams account and penalized for not using SW bc it is part of the franchise agreement which they monitor pretty closely bc there is some corporate level connection between the two companies. 

I don't use SW, I use BM for the most part, but by no means do I consider SW a low grade product. So again, unless you use the highest quality BM, California, P&L, or something along the lines of that, you shouldn't be commenting on something you know nothing about.

Also, I am not saying that all of the work is the best in the business but many of the painters that work under franchisees are entry level painters, and I would say it is fairly easy to figure out exterior painting, so that aside, would you pay more than $9/hr. plus bonuses for production to a beginner painter? What would you suggest? $15/hr? Either way I also know for a fact that this is what their painters make bc payroll will no accept anything besides $9 or higher for a painters wage. Again, you don't know what you're talking about.


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

Any season,
to make things clear upfront, 
this does not address your own business practices.
College Pro, Student Painters or PMTPS (Pay my Tuition Please Sir)
will never have the respect of the regular contractors,
despite the propaganda otherwise.
Reputable contractors should have these safety minimal requirements.
College Pro does too, but enforcing them is a different story.
What we have seen on jobsites and heard from former employees is shameful.
The quality of work we have followed, is laughable.
I don't blame the kids, how much would you do for minimum wage?
This is a business that is thriving on paying minimum wage, or close to it. Yes, bonuses are there, but are you not aware that minimums are not always
guaranteed and a badly estimated job becomes minimum wage?
It may be a business model, but reputable contracting it isn't.
College Pro has done more to downgrade our trade than anything else.
The PDCA has an interesting article about it, I don't have the link.



> Also, I am not saying that all of the work is the best in the business but many of the painters that work under franchisees are entry level painters, and I would say it is fairly easy to figure out exterior painting


Do you really think a few days training makes someone a painter?
You call them painters 
and exterior painting does not take couple of days to figure out.
In the real contracting world, we call them first year apprentices that 
disappear a few months later.
I just need to point out again that I am not refering to your own 
business practices, just your stated opinions.



> (if you even have WC)


Whether he has it or not,
There is no need to assume that perfect has no WC.


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## Any Season (Nov 19, 2007)

*re:*

I agree w/ everything you said for the most part, I was just miffed at the amount of people that hopped into a discussion essentially between you, finley, celtic and myself with one liners that had nothing constructive to add. No prob though.


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## paintingindiana (Mar 3, 2008)

*Bad Business*

The same way you get your name out to the public and build your reputation, you can discredit his. When people call you angry have them doccument it every time. Submit bad reviews everywhere you can.


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## hughesracer (Apr 17, 2007)

Celtic said:


> :blink:
> 
> I don't understand this either.
> 
> ...


This thread held me at my computer like a sitcom.(and I don't watch tv, well, The Weather Channel) Wondering where its going. 
I'm new too, I VOTE for YOU, for "good standing" too.
I'm done here now.


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## paintr56 (Feb 4, 2005)

Any Season said:


> I have lost tens of thousands of dollars in business this winter to a company up here in NH that for the sake of not singling anyone out, we'll just call 'Al's Painting'. I know the work this guy does and the way he operates is close to criminal. He leaves in his wake countless ruined homes, and btw he also does roofing. I keep hearing other painters say, oh it'll catch up to him, but when??? These companies never seem to get what they deserve. I, along with several other contractors in the area are constantly getting calls to fix his work, yet he still gets business, and undercuts everyone else by upwards of 50-60%. I know of one commercial job he undercut everyone on and the gc still stuck with him after considering making a switch after this guy ruined all of the suspended ceiling, windows, pre-finished doors, and woodwork with overspray in a brand new upscale restaraunt. Meanwhile there are companies like me fighting tooth and nail to do the right thing and not lay people off, pay workman's comp, present an image of clean and responsible workers, and good customer service, and this guy does the exact opposite,yet people still go with him. When is this going to even out?



Look at the bright side for all the jobs you lose you are picking up better jobs fixing his mistakes. The customer in theory has learned to hire a true proffesional.

Jim


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## Jonesey (Jul 7, 2006)

To drag this thread back on topic: 

Look, what makes a hack isn't really about price. I'll sometimes bid something low because I want to do it for philanthropic reasons. Other times, I'll do freebies simply because I want to try it or record it (get pictures) so I can show off my talents, or stretch my talents. IMHO hacks don't care about their clients, and don't care about their product. Hacks are just in this for the profit, not because they genuinely like the work or want to help people feel comfortable with their homes.

Hacks are always going to be there to underbid and screw stuff up. Getting mad at them for cheating you out of something you never had (a particular job) is foolish, and a waste of time. Focusing on improving your skills, your company, and your clientelle isn't. 

Look at it reasonably. If you lost jobs because his prices were so low, even if they called you to come fix it, then you need to make yourself more competitive, or find clients who will appreciate what you can offer. The cheese moved, pal. Find better cheese.

I've bid myself out of projects, and bid myself into the poorhouse both. Neither is fun, but neither is worth worrying about either. I've got better things to do, or at least, I should have.


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## Any Season (Nov 19, 2007)

Steve, 

I probably should have clarified this better but the person I spoke about, all numbers aside, straight up ruins homes. I have more of a problem with that than anything else bc I feel that has more of an impact to the collective group of quality contractors. You cannot pay someone to say a good thing about the guy yet he's always busy so that thread was more out of confusion than petty bitching.


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