# average discount?



## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Let's face it. We all know car dealers mark up their cars because they know people are going to talk them down. 

What's the average percentage you've been able to talk down a car/truck dealer?

There was this one web site, and I forgot it's address. We used it when we bought my current truck. It had all sorts of nice pricing information including invoice prices and average sales across the country. Very usefull because the invoice they show you is BULL since they get manufacturer rebates so they may 17k for a 15k truck but then the manuf gives them 5k back whent hey sell it. LOL it's all a big scam.

I'm going to be in the market for a new truck soon.


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## Ron in Southern (Jan 27, 2004)

Grumpy, My brother in law owns a Ford Dealership and I just got off the phone with him and he tells me that the national average on all makes and models are:
Retail Sticker vs. acually dealer cost is 31% 

Wow!


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

So your saying I have 30% room for negotiation? If the truck is listed at 21k I have the possibility of driving it home for ~15k?


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## Ron in Southern (Jan 27, 2004)

That's what I'm told. I'm curious about how much they will negotiate but with that info you will know whether they are stiff arming you or not. keep me informed


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Thanks. Heck I'll give it a shot. I am thinking about a new Chevy Colorado. My current company truck is crapping out and as soon as I open shop on my business I will need my own truck. Maybe I'll tell my boss when my current truck craps out to compensate me for mileage used on my personal truck.


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## hatchet (Oct 27, 2003)

Yeah it's got to be around that 30% somewhere. I got them to drop the price on my truck around 18% without too much of a bother. From 42500 to 35000.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Wow that's much more than I'm looking to spend  especially for a work truck. I can afford it but I ask myself "why?"


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## Bjd (Dec 19, 2003)

Work trucks are a real pain, I replace one this past year. I had ford vans the 350 they were starting to get a little old 96s so I started looking for the same thing regular vans boy was I in for some sticker shock. they were talking $27,000. to $30,000. so i looked at the Chevy Supreme set ups nice units $22,000. for a 350 1 ton and I also got the low intrest rate of 0.3 per for 5 years.

Bernie


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## hatchet (Oct 27, 2003)

Grumpy said:


> Wow that's much more than I'm looking to spend  especially for a work truck. I can afford it but I ask myself "why?"


I look at it this way - if I need to haul 10 tons of hay on a flat bed trailer - I'm covered. If I need to haul a bunk of plywood - I'm covered. At the same time if I need to haul clients to a jobsite to look at our work - I'm covered. And at 22mpg I can't complain.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Grumpy, If you have more than one truck on the road you can ask for the fleet discount. There are also companies that specialize in work vehicles, we have one right here in li'l ol' Stuart, FL.
Another trick, if your not in a rush, is to go to a Ford or GMC dealer that sells road tractors (the big rigs). They often have to buy a certain number of smaller vehicles as part of a package deal. You can have them order what you want. I have paid as little as $50.00 over cost. The first time I did this the truck that I wanted was on the lot and the salesman told me, " I sell $200,000.00 trucks and don't want to be bothered with these little things.". Just don't expect to take it back for service, once it's over the curb they don't want to see it again.
Let us know how you do.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I just love going to dealerships to be harrased by high pressure salesman!

The last salesman told me the truck was $4,000 cheaper than what the real price was (used). Dealerships don't make a killing on brand new vehicles. They make most of there money in back in the service department or in parts. Then they make some money in the used car department. My brother in law has been a dealer at Chysler for 10 years now. He would rather sell used cars then new.

I only buy used, hate to see all the depreciation go down the drain as soon the vehicle leaves the dealership.

Take for example my wifes newest vehicle, 2000 Ford Excursion Limited 4x4 Powerstroke diesel. The MSRP brand new was $53,000 and we paid $20,400 for it last fall.

MSRP is nothing to go by unless your buying a Viper or Corvette. For example that same Excrusion that listed for $53K could be bought brand new for $43K on the A plan.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Sometimes the problem is it's easy to overpay for a used vehicle if you buy froma dealer, but it's easy to be ripped off if you buy from a private seller. I agree though the depreciation is a MF'er on new vehicles, but the interest rates on new cehicles aren't bad at all.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I hate to admit this but once upon a time I was car slime. If you put 10% down on a new vehicle it is gone the moment the tires hit the street (over the curb). It is now a used vehicle. The average guy's chanch of getting a 'deal' are practicley nil. I am amazed that the car business is even legal. It's like gambling in a casino where every game is rigged.
If the salesman doesn't get a homerun (laydown) you are passed to the Sales Manager (higher pressure and more experianced salesman) or juggled in between the two. You are bombarded with all kinds of numbers presented in different ways so that, soon, you are confused. Counter offers are made at the same time, maybe you could do without the leather seats. That will save you $$$$$, more numbers, refigure the sale price. THEN you go to F&I. These people are trained to screw you financially and sell you accessories (backdoor). My ol' lady was an F&I Manager for the local VW. BMW and Volvo dealership for 4 yrs.
Then there are the DIP's (Dealer Incentive Programs) where the sales people and dealership get kickbacks from the manufacturer. Average about $2.000. per vehicle.
Common sense tells you that you don't have '5 acre's of Fords' by giving them away. If you are savvy you can still drive a pretty good deal.
I always walk in with pre-approved loans for a few thousand more than I expect to spend, I only tell them the interest rate, not the value. Sometimes they can beat it but watch the terms, that 0% may only apply to the first year or three years and then convert. I also buy demos or 1 yr. old trucks as long as the maintainence papers are in order, very important if warrantee questions arise.
What do I get? Last year Bowties were a deal, Ford people were not negotiating. Three '03 long body vans with 12-16K for $12-16K. Good deal in my book. My 'oldie' is a 1990 E250 with almost 200K, it's a 'hauler' and doesn't look too good hanging out on the jobsite.
I use vans because they can haul more tools, carry the same loads as a pickup, the load stays dry and you can lock everything up. May not be as macho as a P/U but a lot more practical here in FL. IMHO


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I hear you on vans. I used to drive the ugliest 84 Dodge 3/4 ton window van for work. My father just bought a 2003 E250 van, now he's got three full size vans, he must like them! Four wheel drive is nice though.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

We just had more springs added to a frontier pickup. It can now haul 15 squares of shingles LOL.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Grumpy, you can add to the spring bundles to a van the same way that you can to a P/U. you can also get 4X4, same as a P/U. For more money you can get 4X4 independent suspension in a van, something that I haven't heard of in a full sized P/U.
I suppose that with shingles that you don't worry about rain. When hauling drywall, lumber and plywood, I do.
Vans get your name above most traffic too.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I know about the springs teetor. I hate 4x4 I see no point to it for city driving. 

Our crews have vans. My boss I and out driver have pickups.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I've never heard of a person hating four wheel drive. Have you had bad luck with it in the past? My last two truck have had some 4x4 problems but I still love having 4x4.

Just curious Grumpy, what does your company use for waste removal of old shingles?


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

4 wheel drive is a waste of money on pavement. Waste of gas as well. Repairs to the brakes and drive train will cost more also. So I ask unless your going to use 4x4 why pay extra for it? I got in an argument with my mechainc about this very same thing.

We have a Ford F350 superduty (diesel) dump. We can fit about 8 yards in it dump.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I have to agree with you Grumpy. Here in FL, the more seasoned swampers say 4WD gets you into more trouble that it gets you out of. Usually a few hundred more feet than where you should have stopped in the first place. I've seen it first hand many times. Saw one sink right up to the window sills, the guy had to wait for the dry season to dig it out.
I have had 6 of them and the best are the old M38.


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