# Public Bidding...



## ElIngeniero (Feb 7, 2008)

When you are providing a quote, specifically to a GC, do you provide a lump sum amount for grading/storm/water/sewer/paving or do you break down your pricing by line item? Years ago, we worked primarily with developers so it was seemingly more professional to show a breakdown of how we arrived at our costs as opposed to just showing them a number. 

We haven't seen a commercial or residential development in over a year. The only private work we see is being bid out to 10+ GCs and I'm certain that they don't even look at my breakdown--they just want the total of each division. I provided a quote for HDPE in a recent bid as the plans didn't have a material detailed and the specs indicated HDPE or RCP. An addendum was released that pushed the date back and removed HDPE as an allowed product on the job. When I resubmitted my proposal, I received numerous phonecalls questioning why my pricing changed when I clearly changed the material in the new quote.:furious:

I've always been nervous to do it as I always have the GC include my proposal in the contract but I believe I will begin only providing a lump sum price for each division of work we perform and state any exclusions. How much information do you provide with your proposal to a GC?


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## dodgerfan175 (Mar 17, 2010)

I never breakdown the pricing for bidding purposes. Like you say I'll have one price for the site utilities and one for the building plumbing. Once the the contract is awarded however I do breakdown the schedule of values as much as possible. That way there's no doubt about what I will be allowed to bill for each month.


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## Blas (Jan 29, 2008)

Agreed, I usually give an explanation of what we are doing and I tip it heavily in our favor, but I never ever break down the bid per line Item costs. This would just cause greedy GC's to get greedier if there were a need to negotiate the contract with them to get the "job". This would simply just provide them with way to much ammo. Not only that but all the douche bag GC's will use that against you at the time of bid with your competitors and you will magically be just a little to high every time.


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## WC&T (Feb 22, 2010)

I only give an itemized bid to the GC's that I know or trust. Everyone else gets a lump sum or they will try and buy out items that they think can be done cheaper.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Well, I do not do any public work, but I do bid alot to GC's. I break down certain things and give a price per line item and then give a total. I explain what it is included so there are no arguments. I can e-mail you a copy of a recent proposal that I gave if you like.


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## ElIngeniero (Feb 7, 2008)

Rino, it sounds like your proposals are exactly like ours. And come to think of it, GC's have been chopping up our proposals a bit lately. The last 'big' job I got, the GC cut out 20k worth of silt fence/tree protection fencing from our proposal and said he would do it himself. When we arrived at the job, neither the silt or tree fence was in the right spot. We argued that but he insisted it was right. A few surveys later, he found out he was wrong and had to pay for a change order to move the fence back 20' and do extra clearing around the site.

Thanks for your help--I think that I'll begin hiding my line item pricing on public bids.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Here are some examples from a previous proposal that I had done. I never break anything down as far as unit pricing. I give a general description and try to group some things together. I do try to get quite a few line items, that way I can turn more bills in as we get work done to keep a good cash flow. My first line item I always put in mobilization, silt fence, clearing and grubing, site layout and supervision and I front load it to get some money up front.

*Site Work:*
1. Mobilization, site layout, construction entrance and silt fence installation. $ XX,XXX.00
Construct temporary swale. Fill in and compact existing swale.
2. Excavate for building footers, piers, elevator pit and drive thru canopy piers, XX,XXX.00
including backfill and compaction utilizing excavated material. Foam 
insulation by others.
3. Supply, place, fine grade and compact 2B stone for under concrete floor slab. XX,XXX.00
Vapor barrier by others.



*Detention basin and Infiltration basins:*
4. Construct storm water detention basin per plans including outlet structure, XX,XXX.00
emergency spillway, concrete anti-seep collar and level spreader. Seed 
and mulch upon completion.
5. Construct storm water infiltration basin A per plans. XX,XXXX.00
6. Construct storm water infiltration basin B per plans


*Storm Water Piping and Inlets:*
7. Install storm water piping, inlets and manhole with snout, including tying into XX,XXX.00
existing 24" stub.
8. Install roof rain leaders and tie into inlets.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Hey Guys, there are a lot of honest hard working GC's out here. On a PW bid all I want to see is your cost for what has been requested for you to bid. That is why I deal only with subs I know. I feel sorry for you guys who live in states where your bids can be shopped. We can't do it out here and I have never done it with any subs.

If we are bidding a private job I will want to see a line item breakdown so I know what could be negotiated or changed in the bid. This is not done to beat anyone down but just to keep everyone in the loop. NOT AGAINST EACH OTHER. As a GC I am not your enemy. I want a good working relationship with my subs. I don't want you guys to feel you are giving a job away or working for nothing.


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## WC&T (Feb 22, 2010)

rino1494 said:


> Here are some examples from a previous proposal that I had done. I never break anything down as far as unit pricing. I give a general description and try to group some things together. I do try to get quite a few line items, that way I can turn more bills in as we get work done to keep a good cash flow. My first line item I always put in mobilization, silt fence, clearing and grubing, site layout and supervision and I front load it to get some money up front.
> 
> *Site Work:*
> 1. Mobilization, site layout, construction entrance and silt fence installation. $ XX,XXX.00
> ...


That is a pretty common scope letter except for the pricing. I use to itemize my bids with pricing (i.e. TESC, Storm, sewer, water, sitework and building footprint) until I had a GC buy out 50k worth of TESC during contract buy out. Now they get a scope letter the day before with my inclusions and exclusions and I call in my bid the day of the bid about 1hr before bid time. If you are including curbs, sidewalks, concrete and asphalt you probably want those itmes broke out from your lump sum pricing. A lot of estimators spread sheets for their bid have line items for site work (grading & utilities), curbs and sidewalks and asphalt. Usually they don't need each spec section broke down in pricing. The only things I break out is Mobilization and Trench Safety since that usually has its own line item in the general proposal. The main thing is to check the proposal sheet and see how far you have to break down your bid.

When you bid public works these days you have alot of GC's bidding the job. Most of the GC's you won't know or have never worked for, some of the GC's will be out of state and have no problem chopping and shopping your bid out before the bid time. All it takes is one site work contractor to have a buddy in the estimating department of one of the GC's and you go from lowest bidder to #2.

It's best to give itemized break down only in your schedule of values since that comes after contract buyout. Give them an early scope letter so they feel confortable with what you will cover and they can call with questions early in the day. This not only gives the GC a warm and fuzzy that there are no holes in your bid it also might bring to light something you missed in the specs or drawings.

GC's love making money on buy out and when you start doing a lot of public and federal projects you learn how to protect yourself.


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