# Best vacuum filter for fine dust?



## Millworker (Jan 17, 2013)

I usually keep the dust bag on my chop saw but when doing large amounts of MDF trim it gets pretty nasty, so I hook up my craftsman vac. It does a good job of keeping the dust minimal but after about 10mins of cutting the fine dust starts shooting out of all the non sealed areas of the vac causing even more of a mess.

I went and got a new filter that a worker at sears recommended which helped a bit but in the end made the same mess.

Any ideas?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Why does your vac have unsealed areas? Time to get a decent vac. You really should have an RRP compliant vac with a good amount of power. My suggestion is to get a new vac not filter.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Why does your vac have unsealed areas? Time to get a decent vac. You really should have an RRP compliant vac with a good amount of power. My suggestion is to get a new vac not filter.


RRP eh? Don't think he needs that.

Just use bags.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

I agree, get a good HEPA vac. No filter is going to improve fine dust collection on a shop vac that doesn't seal properly, and is not designed for fine dust.


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## Millworker (Jan 17, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Why does your vac have unsealed areas? Time to get a decent vac. You really should have an RRP compliant vac with a good amount of power. My suggestion is to get a new vac not filter.


This thing is very powerful. I got it about 2 years ago because it is compact. I don't know much about it though. 

This is the unit I have (pic pulled from the net)


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> RRP eh? Don't think he needs that.
> 
> Just use bags.


Bag reduces flow and thus suction. Not sure that's the desired result. RRP is simply a sealed system. If his vac is leaking, no matter what you use, it will end up throwing dust (any that remains in the canister).


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Bag reduces flow and thus suction. Not sure that's the desired result. RRP is simply a sealed system. If his vac is leaking, no matter what you use, it will end up throwing dust (any that remains in the canister).


Bags help maintain suction because the filter doesn't clog in 30 seconds.

And are cheap.:whistling


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Bags help maintain suction because the filter doesn't clog in 30 seconds.
> 
> And are cheap.:whistling


While that is true, it doesn't negate the fact that the vac has to draw air through the bag, thus reducing overall performance. Also the bag isn't impervious to dust. It will clog rather quickly.

I do a ton of wood working and carpentry and have used them all. The best solution is a vac that is seal, has a great filter (self cleaning) and has some decent power.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Millworker said:


> This thing is very powerful. I got it about 2 years ago because it is compact. I don't know much about it though.
> 
> This is the unit I have (pic pulled from the net)


I wasn't suggesting that it doesn't, just saying that when you purchase a good HEPA vac make sure that you don't chince on the power.


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## Millworker (Jan 17, 2013)

The rigid vacs any good? there always seems to be promotions on them and HD.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

just because a vacuum is fitted with a HEPA filter it don't mean its gonna pass all the air through the HEPA filter. Cheap vacuums are prone to letting air bypass the filter. What normally happens is the filter gets clogged and deforms under vacuum and the seals on the filter fail. 

The only way your gonna guarantee that all the Air is going through the filter is to get a certified vac. If your not doing RRP then any good quality vac like a festool, fein, nilfisk, Makita, dewalt etc etc should give you a vac that has hardly any air bypass the filter. 

The above vacs filter better with a non HEPA filter than a cheap vac with a HEPA filter. 

Also always run a bag unless your vac has autoclean system on the filter.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Buy a shop vac fine dust filter bag and also a cartridge style filter. You will have suction until the bag fills up. We run our cheap shop vac this way and it works great. 

TNT does have a point about a decent vac. If nothing else its nice to clean up the customers house at the end of the day without spewimg fine dust all over.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

Your problem isn't the filter. It's the vac. They don't filter all of the air, allowing some to bypass. Not by design, but rather lack thereof. I would recommend a better vac. Fein, Alto, Felstool, Nilfisk to name a few. I'm sure there are others. 

MDF creates a very fine dust, that dust also has the resins and other nasty stuff in it. I personally think a HEPA filter is a very good idea.


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## tccoggs (Dec 17, 2008)

Get a dust deputy and a good filter. The dust deputy does well with MDF dust and keep the filter clean longer.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Millworker said:


> The rigid vacs any good? there always seems to be promotions on them and HD.


I own the small 5 gallon and the thing sucks.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I own the small 5 gallon and the thing sucks.


In a good way


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

millworker, look at Clean Stream Gortex filters. As others said , if there is a by-pass of the filter you have other issues with the vac.

I'd rather throw away a 7 dollar bag when it is full than clog my HEPA filters. 

Not sure if it qualifies as a "ton of wood work" (the 200 sheets of mahogany plywood did weigh 15,400 pounds) like TNT does, but I collected over 1200 liters of woodworking dust in my 4 CT's over the last 7 weeks. Filled many bags, the HEPA filters are just fine.

Tom


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Millworker said:


> The rigid vacs any good? there always seems to be promotions on them and HD.


I only have experience with one rigid vac and while the suction was great, the thing was as loud as a harrier jet during a vertical takeoff.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Millworker said:


> The rigid vacs any good? there always seems to be promotions on them and HD.


I don't think so.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Millworker said:


> The rigid vacs any good? there always seems to be promotions on them and HD.


They are probably the best shop-vac-style shop vacs out there before you cross over to full unit HEPA vacs. I have the bigger Ridgid with a cleanstream filter, muffler and only use it with bags. For the price, it performs well and has a ton of capacity. 

I also have a CT26 and CT22 which get the bulk of my use.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> millworker, look at Clean Stream Gortex filters. As others said , if there is a by-pass of the filter you have other issues with the vac.
> 
> I'd rather throw away a 7 dollar bag when it is full than clog my HEPA filters.
> 
> ...


I love the fact that you felt the need to push someone else down to make your point. Too bad it just couldn't have stood on it's own.

Your CT's use a self cleaning filter bag. This feature ensures that you maintain full suction until the bag is full. So unless you have a self cleaning system ditch the bag and just shake out and blast your filter with air and git'er done.


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I have a Rigid. It doesnt have the bag option.
It sucks, and not in a good way.
It does have lots of power, for about a minute and a half.
Wish it would die.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

B.D.R. said:


> I have a Rigid. It doesnt have the bag option.
> It sucks, and not in a good way.
> It does have lots of power, for about a minute and a half.
> Wish it would die.


Which one do you have? You can pretty much put a bag in all of them.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I love the fact that you felt the need to push someone else down to make your point. Too bad it just couldn't have stood on it's own.
> 
> Your CT's use a self cleaning filter bag. This feature ensures that you maintain full suction until the bag is full. So unless you have a self cleaning system ditch the bag and just shake out and blast your filter with air and git'er done.


Who'd I push down? For all I know you do more woodworking than I do. 

My CT-22 does not have self cleaning bags available. They are fleece or paper, neither self cleaning. Nor does it have a self cleaning mode. 

Why collect dust just to dump it creating a cloud of what your trying to avoid breathing? I use to do the same, dumping the dust and blowing out filters. The Clean Streams were washed in the dishwasher. Looking back it was all a very foolish and futile process.

Tom


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> Who'd I push down? For all I know you do more woodworking than I do.
> 
> My CT-22 does not have self cleaning bags available. They are fleece or paper, neither self cleaning. Nor does it have a self cleaning mode.
> 
> ...


Then I read it wrong. My appologies.

To bad you didn't get the self cleaning vacs. My next vac purchase is the CT26. Been talking about it for a year or two now.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

For job site use, I've got a dewalt hepa dust extactor and I use the dewalt heavy-duty fleece bags with no apparent suction loss. Works great and no shop vac dust in peoples homes!


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

It's on a job-site right now. Not sure which model.
The vac intake is on the top, not the barrel.
Believe me I looked.
it was a quick purchase when I had the 7 crewmembers.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

B.D.R. said:


> I have a Rigid. It doesnt have the bag option.
> It sucks, and not in a good way.
> It does have lots of power, for about a minute and a half.
> Wish it would die.


Ridgid has like 3 different bags for their vacs. My Ridgid sucks well but does have blow by.:blink:


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

Figured that I could spot it on the rigid website. Wrong.
Looks like the 6 gal model but, it looks like they cured the disease.


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

The blow by isn't bad actually with the blue filter on it $28.95.
But it clogs within minutes


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Then I read it wrong. My appologies.
> 
> To bad you didn't get the self cleaning vacs. My next vac purchase is the CT26. Been talking about it for a year or two now.


I've had the 22 for at least 5 years, long before the new models were introduced. It does have the manual filter scrubber. 

I do have the CT-36-AC, it is the only self cleaning vac Festool makes. I have installed the HEPA filters in it for doing woodwork. It is not RRP certified, even with the HEPA filters in it. I use the bags in it. Just sanded drywall with the Planex, left the half full bag in it. I saw no decrease in performance. 

My Mini and Midi use the fleece bags which collapse and are self cleaning. The CT itself is not self cleaning.

Tom


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

B.D.R. said:


> I have a Rigid. It doesnt have the bag option.
> It sucks, and not in a good way.
> It does have lots of power, for about a minute and a half.
> Wish it would die.


They all take bags.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> I've had the 22 for at least 5 years, long before the new models were introduced. It does have the manual filter scrubber.
> 
> I do have the CT-36-AC, it is the only self cleaning vac Festool makes. I have installed the HEPA filters in it for doing woodwork. It is not RRP certified, even with the HEPA filters in it. I use the bags in it. Just sanded drywall with the Planex, left the half full bag in it. I saw no decrease in performance.
> 
> ...


Self Cleaning Bags is what I said. http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2006175/31163/festool-ct26-self-clean-filter-bags-5-pack.aspx

And they do make them for the 22 as well.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> They all take bags.


not true. I had a Ridgid and 2 ShopVacs that did not take filters. if the intake port is not in the tank and is on the head, they won't accept a filter.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

A simple mod to mine that has made a huge difference. No more blowing dust around.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> A simple mod to mine that has made a huge difference. No more blowing dust around.
> 
> View attachment 111381


only dust blowing up... :blink:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

m1911 said:


> only dust blowing up... :blink:


How do you figure? The exhaust port typically points out not up. This causes the dust on the floor, especially in corners, to get kicked up and dispersed.

There typically isn't much dust on the ceiling or just floating in the air directly above the vac. :blink:

If you are talking about dust coming from the vac, the filter works just fine. No dust blows out of the vac.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> How do you figure? The exhaust port typically points out not up. This causes the dust on the floor, especially in corners, to get kicked up and dispersed.
> 
> There typically isn't much dust on the ceiling or just floating in the air directly above the vac. :blink:
> 
> If you are talking about dust coming from the vac, the filter works just fine. No dust blows out of the vac.


oh, I misunderstood, as I thought it was to reduce the dust blowing out the vac. :whistling


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Get a good vac, for example one of the Festools. At $5/bag, each a solid brick of sawdust, sheetrock, Hardiboard, MDF, they are money in the bank.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

I won't even consider using a dust extractor without a bag - who wants to breathe that crap when you dump the loose dirt out of the tank?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Great!


Somebody took over TNTs account I was expecting a 6 paragraph rant...


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I can only tell you what I found.
> 
> http://www.rockler.com/festool-self-cleaning-filter-bags-ct-22
> 
> ...


It is made of the same material, but does not collapse knocking the dust off the inside of the bag. From the feel of the bag there is a paper liner inside the fleece to keep the bag open. I believe it is due to the canister design. The new model CT's canister the motor is on top allowing for a longer bag, this is how/why they can collapse. The older models the bag area is much closer to a equal side cube shape. The link to Festool USA's website does not list the fleece CT-22 as a self cleaning bag, the Mini, Mid, 26, 36, 48 are listed as self cleaning.

As I said, I use the fleece 22 bag, I know they do not collapse. 

Tom


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Somebody took over TNTs account I was expecting a 6 paragraph rant...


I haven't taken your bait in awhile. You tried on the conduit cutting thread. Some pots like calling the kettle black. I've noticed that most if your posts lately are just inflammatory and contensious. The movie thread for example. You had to bag on others choices.

Once again I am just giving you my experience and why I chose what I did. 

I have also said that when I get the CT26 I will use a bag and have said that occasionally I still use bags. It's just I am much happier without a bag. This all comes from one if the most organized and anal people you will ever meet.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I haven't taken your bait in awhile. You tried on the conduit cutting thread. Some pots like calling the kettle black. I've noticed that most if your posts lately are just inflammatory and contensious. The movie thread for example. You had to bag on others choices.
> 
> Once again I am just giving you my experience and why I chose what I did.
> 
> I have also said that when I get the CT26 I will use a bag and have said that occasionally I still use bags. It's just I am much happier without a bag. This all comes from one if the most organized and anal people you will ever meet.


Ladies and gentleman the new TNT.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> It is made of the same material, but does not collapse knocking the dust off the inside of the bag. From the feel of the bag there is a paper liner inside the fleece to keep the bag open. I believe it is due to the canister design. The new model CT's canister the motor is on top allowing for a longer bag, this is how/why they can collapse. The older models the bag area is much closer to a equal side cube shape. The link to Festool USA's website does not list the fleece CT-22 as a self cleaning bag, the Mini, Mid, 26, 36, 48 are listed as self cleaning.
> 
> As I said, I use the fleece 22 bag, I know they do not collapse.
> 
> Tom


Rockler advertises it as a self cleaning bag. That's all I am saying. I can only give you what they print.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> They do and they don't work. It depends what your sucking up. they are better than a paper bag.


I find they work just fine. I keep a bag in mine when sanding with the Planex, see no decrease in dust extraction. If the compound was damp it may be a different issue, but below atmosphere the powder should be bone dry by the time it makes it to the canister. I don't change out the bag until it is full. 

Tom


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Ladies and gentleman the new TNT.


Thanks for proving my point.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> I find they work just fine. I keep a bag in mine when sanding with the Planex, see no decrease in dust extraction. If the compound was damp it may be a different issue, but below atmosphere the powder should be bone dry by the time it makes it to the canister. I don't change out the bag until it is full.
> 
> Tom


See Inner it's possible for two people to have a different experience. I know it shakes your low voltage world but it's possible.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Rockler advertises it as a self cleaning bag. That's all I am saying. I can only give you what they print.


I saw that when I clicked the link in your previous post.

Just letting you know it is not. They have made an error in the listing. If/when you're at Rockler, check a 22 bag and a 26 bag, the difference is very obvious.


Tom


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> I find they work just fine. I keep a bag in mine when sanding with the Planex, see no decrease in dust extraction. If the compound was damp it may be a different issue, but below atmosphere the powder should be bone dry by the time it makes it to the canister. I don't change out the bag until it is full. Tom


I'm using my CT36AC as a comparison though. If I turn my CT26 off so the bag can collapse and turn it back on I notice no difference after it has "self cleaned" the suction feels the exact same. But after my AC has done its self clean cycle I notice a massive difference in suction. I'm sure they work to a point but they don't gain you back 30%+ extra suction or even 5% from what I can tell.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> See Inner it's possible for two people to have a different experience. I know it shakes your low voltage world but it's possible.


He uses a bag.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Is the self clean cycle with a bag in the canister or the drywall liner? The self clean on the 36 AC clears the filters of powder, that will have a major difference on the units ability to breath. 

Tom


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> He uses a bag.


So does BC, yet they have had two separate experiences.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

The big problem with Chinese manufacturing is controlling the suppliers and raw materials quality control measures. The big brands outsource a lot of components. 

The quality of the wiring was usually very poor, with brittle plastic that dried out and cracked. The "copper" in the wires was and unknown alloy that was too stiff and would fail. Gears would be made with inferior steel made of melted down scrap. Sometimes when cutting through the metal components, voids would be found that retained the shape of whatever was melted down, so you would see screw threads, etc. 

I have a buddy that works in the offshore oil industry, and they received a batch of 1-1/4" bolts that turned out to be a pipe that had a hex shaped piece of plate welded to it. It was then filled with scrap, and molted metal poured in to fill the inside. Then the welds were machined or ground, and the threads cut. Looked fine from the outside, but one cracked at the head, so they got suspicious. Sliced it open along it's length, and it was obvious what they had. These bolts were meant to be installed on lifeboats. There are only two of them holding the boat in the air. No, they didn't use those bolts!

This was a big problem for the major tool brands when they started moving over there, but they have slowly managed to get it under control. Makita, Milwaukee, Bosch, etc make pretty good tools over there these days. Maybe not EU quality, but getting closer. 

Chinese companies that are set up for selling to low end resellers, such as HF, don't worry about these things. Their only goal is to meet a price point. Plus, Chinese have a very different view on quality than we do in the West. It's a cultural difference. Years of living behind an iron curtain have shifted their expectations. 

That's why I stick to name brands, unless it's something I only think I'll need once.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> I saw that when I clicked the link in your previous post.
> 
> Just letting you know it is not. They have made an error in the listing. If/when you're at Rockler, check a 22 bag and a 26 bag, the difference is very obvious.
> 
> ...


No need, I trust you. :thumbsup:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I do recommend leaving a hose connected or some type of cap on the inlet port of a CT when transporting or moving it. Just bumping the canister will cause a plume of dust to exit the inlet port.

I notice it more on the newer models, the bag is directly behind the inlet, unlike the older models where bag is about 12" inside the canister. 

Tom


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> No argument, just explaining what I do. When a "draw back" to my method arises, I simply address it. I am not going to just let it hang out there as if it's not something I deal with on a daily basis and have experience with the ups and downs. In fact I have bags in my van right now and occasionally use them. We do drywall, woodworking, carpentry and tile work. I use the vac for all those items and not having the bag isn't a big deal for clean up and while it may be a bit more dusty, I love having the power that a bag free vac offers. My carpenter and I run both our vacs the same way. It was actually him who turned me on to it. I had to replace my bag a few times a day because they were half or a third full but I was losing a ton if suction. He would shake his filter out a few times a week and get back to it. Now that I ditched the bag I empty it a few times a week and won't go back to them fulltime. But like I said, when I buy the CT, I will go with the self cleaning bags and go back to bags. But since we are talking about a cheap shop vac, no need for bags, IMO.


I wasn't referring to you personally. 
It was a comment on the thread in general.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

This thread has me thinking about vacuums again. I haven't really liked a vacuum set up I've had in over 10 years. Clog too easy, too noisy, suction is so - so, too bulky. There's always something. I do like TNT's solution for not blowing stuff around on the floor.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

If anyone is going to replace their "shop vacs" with a Festool CT YOU WILL BE GREATKY disappointed----------unless you invest in a 36 mm hose. The 27 mm that comes with the CT tends to clog/plug where it connects to the wand. 

Tom


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> If anyone is going to replace their "shop vacs" with a Festool CT YOU WILL BE GREATKY disappointed----------unless you invest in a 36 mm hose. The 27 mm that comes with the CT tends to clog/plug where it connects to the wand. Tom


I'll agree 100% with that statement. I carry both hoses. I kinda think they should have included the 36mm and made the 27mm optional, but I guess the primary purpose is as a dust extractor for tools, so the 27mm does make some sense. 

I still cringe when I think of what I paid for the cleaning kit, but I would still buy it today. It's really that good. Overpriced, but there isn't anything better available for less.


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