# Pergo Laminate



## dnebout (Feb 3, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Not to side track the issue, but through my flooring wholesaler ProSource I get prefinished 3/4 hardwood for that price. That seems like a lot of money to pay for a laminate floor when hardwood can be bought for the same price.


No kidding! I bought it from ProSource in Concord CA. I'm looking at the invoice now and that was the price. Everybody else wanted alot more.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Not to offend anyone but laminate and hardwood are two totally different products, intended to appeal to different customers and markets. Those who insist on comparing apples to oranges and calling one a "bad" value against the other is a little short sighted and un educated imho. What if Jill Homeowner has a very active lifestyle with 3.4 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, and a hampster named Wanger (named by the 13 yr old son cause he can ask girls "hey you wanna pet my Wanger") but loves the look of Honey Pine plank through out her downstairs? "Real" wood would look like crap in less than a year while Wilsonart Red Label will look brand new in 10 years. What do you do, talk her into carpet? Talk her into real wood because heck it's the same price? You just lost a sale or a happy client because you refuse to educate yourself about your product and your market. Laminate and Hardwood are not the same thing.. just like Ceramic and Vinyl are not, even though there are tons of vinyl that looks just like tile. Ok I'm done now lol  Also as a side note: even though the price of the product may be the same I bet the cost of install isn't  I install and sell both, depends on my customers wants and needs.


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## dnebout (Feb 3, 2006)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Not to offend anyone but laminate and hardwood are two totally different products, intended to appeal to different customers and markets. Those who insist on comparing apples to oranges and calling one a "bad" value against the other is a little short sighted and un educated imho. What if Jill Homeowner has a very active lifestyle with 3.4 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, and a hampster named Wanger but loves the look of Honey Pine plank through out her downstairs? "Real" wood would look like crap in less than a year while Wilsonart Red Label will look brand new in 10 years. What do you do, talk her into carpet? Talk her into real wood because heck it's the same price? You just lost a sale or a happy client because you refuse to educate yourself about your product and your market. Laminate and Hardwood are not the same thing just like Ceramic and Vinyl are not even though there are tons of vinyl that looks just like tile. Ok I'm done now lol


That's why we went with the laminate.


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Not to offend anyone but laminate and hardwood are two totally different products, intended to appeal to different customers and markets. Those who insist on comparing apples to oranges and calling one a "bad" value against the other is a little short sighted and un educated imho. What if Jill Homeowner has a very active lifestyle with 3.4 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, and a hampster named Wanger (named by the 13 yr old son cause he can ask girls "hey you wanna pet my Wanger") but loves the look of Honey Pine plank through out her downstairs? "Real" wood would look like crap in less than a year while Wilsonart Red Label will look brand new in 10 years. What do you do, talk her into carpet? Talk her into real wood because heck it's the same price? You just lost a sale or a happy client because you refuse to educate yourself about your product and your market. Laminate and Hardwood are not the same thing.. just like Ceramic and Vinyl are not, even though there are tons of vinyl that looks just like tile. Ok I'm done now lol  Also as a side note: even though the price of the product may be the same I bet the cost of install isn't  I install and sell both, depends on my customers wants and needs.





What a great post.
That's the frame of mind of a true salesperson.
great job!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Not to offend anyone but laminate and hardwood are two totally different products, intended to appeal to different customers and markets. Those who insist on comparing apples to oranges and calling one a "bad" value against the other is a little short sighted and un educated imho.


Yes, exactly they are two different products, but where you focus on appeal I am focusing on value. My reply was that if somebody is already spending x amount of money for Pergo laminate flooring and 3/4 hardwood in 3 inch width pre-finished is available for the exact same price what is the appeal of the Pergo? Other than of course no having the great fun time of dealing with this crackling issue that came with it!:whistling 

I don't think there is a case ever to be made that laminate is going to add as much value to a homes appraised value as a similarly priced hardwood floor will. I don't see too much laminate going into million dollar homes either. My experiences and correct me if yours are different, but my experiences with the exception of rare installation issues aside, the choice for laminate vs hardwood is almost always a one based on the budget.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

The largest problem that I see with woods is tracking and scoring. The HO decides to rearrange the room with the armoir full, she and the maid decide to DIY it. The feet score tracks across the room and the slightest piece of debris scratches the finish. This can be a very expensive move.

A good quality laminate will take this in stride.

I'm beginning to find some problems with the 'modern "engineered" woods', anybody else?


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

I can understand your point of view Mike, but over here that's just not the case. I have put ALOT of laminate in half million dollar homes and up. I even installed Wilsonart Red label in a 6 million dollar home in a development where lot prices *start* at a million bucks. In all reality what is a 10 grand value swing in a say a 1.2 million dollar house anyway? People who live in those homes buy what they like first not what is gonna gain them the most appraisal value. As far as they snip about the Pergo crackling...well I have had plenty of issues with real wood and manufacturing defects and improper install too, so what's your point? Not trying to be an ass, I just like educated debate  Teetorbilt's post is exactly why next month I am ripping up 1200 sf of prefinished hardwood to reinstall laminate...in a probably 800 thousand dollar home. They are tired of having to baby they're floor so laminate is what they have found to give them what they need. That's what they want, cost doesn't even figure into the equation.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Thanks Precision. Interesting observations. Either I just haven't noticed it or our markets are completely different. (and I could well have just never noticed it! ) I'll take some closer looks and keep my eyes open. The stuff I see trending in million dollar homes here is Ipe, Mahoganies, what looks like reclaimed barn woods or old growth floors and lots of hand hand scraped erotic hardwoods. I just don't see laminate, but like I said, I might be missing it.

There is no doubt about it in regard to high dollar might not equate to easy living. Last one I was involved with they had dark, dark Ipe floors, the dust off your shoes tracked across it everywhere you walked.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

No sweat Mike, I appreciate a different perspective too. If you haven't already, take a look at some of the upper end laminates when you get a chance... might suprise you as to their look and feel. Wilsonart and Columbia both have some hand scraped stuff that is very nice, and could definitely compete look wise with real wood imho. Also my previous posts were about people who really "live" on their floors, not summer homes or getaways for the rich. Those will still almost always exclusively be the same thing you are seeing out there.


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

Mike Finley said:


> Yes, exactly they are two different products, but where you focus on appeal I am focusing on value. My reply was that if somebody is already spending x amount of money for Pergo laminate flooring and 3/4 hardwood in 3 inch width pre-finished is available for the exact same price what is the appeal of the Pergo? Other than of course no having the great fun time of dealing with this crackling issue that came with it!:whistling


Let's not forget that if you purchase a million plus home, they will have value in wood.
There are tons of homes where the value may not go up at all, and certainly some people may only plan on being in the home a short while, and wood may not be practical.
The crackling issue is not Pergo. It's CHEAP Pergo. there is a difference.
These issues are mostly the problem of HD and their exclusive cheap Pergo line.

I saw a house that was worth $900,000 and had lam, I though it looked cheap. But, that's what they wanted and were happy. And that is where you find the true answer to the VALUE question.


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## RichSmith1 (Feb 18, 2006)

I find that those cheap $1 laminates without the backing have more sound to them than 8mm and thicker. Customers always wanna save a buck though and it honestly aint worth it. With that 6mm crap with no padding/foam I end up trashing 1/2 of it cause it chips the edges as soon as you remove them from the box. 
The kind with some backing on it already is the best way to go to reduce noise, cracking and damage of the peices.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

If you use a good quality underlayment you don't have the noise issues, no matter what the thickness of the product. I do agree on the chipping though.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

One also must remember that most $1M+ homes go to older folks, not really 'active' households.

I live in FL (lots of sand), still have pets, a pool and kids in their 20's. Wood or laminate? I went high-end laminate to get me through this period. I plan to replace with solid wood in the future and am collecting Dade County pine towards that end.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Teetorbilt said:


> One also must remember that most $1M+ homes go to older folks, not really 'active' households.


Probably in Florida, but not here for certain.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Mike, I was going on a national basis, we live in exceptional areas.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Hey Teetor, I was born in Vero Beach and grew up in St Lucie County, parents still live in PSL. I know what ya mean about that sand.. tough on real wood for shure.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Precision, How in the H did you wind up in VA.?

Just to make you homesick, lows are in the 60's and high's are in the upper 70's. The Pompano are running and most inland bites are on. Offshore, the Spanish never leave, Sails have set new records, Swords are picking up but the Dolphin bite is off quite a bit.

Hope that you're having fun in the Ice and Snow.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Thanks for the weather update.....damn you! lol! I think I miss the beach more than anything. Did they ever finish the causway project there in Jensen? I personally think they ruined one of the best spots to spend a Sunday in S. FL. I joined the Navy when I was 19 and ended up in Norfolk for 3 1/2 years. Met my wife here in Hampton and after I got out of the Navy came back home and got into the flooring trade. After a few years I went out on my own and decided Florida was too cut throat for me business wise. Seems like the cheaper you are the "better" you are down there. Anyway, had an old Navy buddy up here check into things for me and it appeared the market up here was more suited to what I was trying to do so...turned out well . I couldn't be in a better place business wise. I do however plan to one day retire in Jensen Beach. One of my favorite places in all of Florida outside of the Keys. Reminds me of there a great deal....as long as developers don't ruin it.


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## dnebout (Feb 3, 2006)

OK inspector came out. Everything was installed correctly. He checked for 3/16 in 10' variation and I was cool. They gave me a certificate to replace the whole floor. Pergo really stands behind their product!!!!


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## pmbarber (Feb 4, 2006)

dnebout, I have the exact same floor and although it does look very, very nice I have the same crackling problem you described. Can you tell me the procedure of getting the Pergo rep out and what they will be looking for? Thank you.


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## dnebout (Feb 3, 2006)

It's been awhile but here goes. If you did it yourself call the company that you bought it from and they will get a hold of Pergo. Pergo will send out a 3rd party inspector to verify that the floor was installed properly. He'll ask you about the underlayment used as well as your leveling procedure. He'll take a probe and chck the clearance from the floor to the wall under your baseboards. He'll take a 10' staright edge and make sure that you aren't over a 1/4" out in the low and high spots. He'll ask you about your installation procedure. If everything checks out Ok, he'll give you a letter stating that you are in need of a new floor under warranty. If you did it, they'll only pay about $1.00 to a $1.50 a sq ft to reinstall and send you the new material for free. You'll have to fight them for more money. If you had the work done, they will pay the contractor to do it. You can also get a dump fee and a budget included for tear out as well as baseboard replacent. They will also send you putty,all your nosing and trim pieces. You will also get there top of the line silent floor underlayment if you don't already have it.

There was a defect in that floor. When I received the new floor there was much more wax on the tongue side of the plank. It also was a little looser fit to allow for flex withought making any noise. 

Good Luck!!


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

I am not a big fan of Pergo because of the issues. But you can't say they don't do a good job at refunding.
It's amazing how they stay in business really.
Maybe that's why they still do not have a rep up here.


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## A2Z (Mar 4, 2007)

RichSmith1 said:


> I find that those cheap $1 laminates without the backing have more sound to them than 8mm and thicker. Customers always wanna save a buck though and it honestly aint worth it. With that 6mm crap with no padding/foam I end up trashing 1/2 of it cause it chips the edges as soon as you remove them from the box.
> The kind with some backing on it already is the best way to go to reduce noise, cracking and damage of the peices.


I put that cheap $1 lam down in my house w/o the backing and don't have any complaints..The only reason I did it was because of the kids dog etc. I put the padding down over a slab..IMO if you make sure everything is tight you won't get any crackln noises..I have a job next week installing lam with the backing on it in addition the lady wants me to put down the padding too..I hope it doesn't cause problems  fingers crossed!


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

A2Z said:


> I put that cheap $1 lam down in my house w/o the backing and don't have any complaints..The only reason I did it was because of the kids dog etc. I put the padding down over a slab..IMO if you make sure everything is tight you won't get any crackln noises..I have a job next week installing lam with the backing on it in addition the lady wants me to put down the padding too..I hope it doesn't cause problems  fingers crossed!


It can cause the joints to seperate and the locking system to fail from too much deflection. I would explain that to her. The manufacturer WILL NOT warranty that installation...why should you?


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## A2Z (Mar 4, 2007)

PrecisionFloors said:


> It can cause the joints to seperate and the locking system to fail from too much deflection. I would explain that to her. The manufacturer WILL NOT warranty that installation...why should you?



Thanks for the tip..apparently she had it done in her other rooms I will def. let her know though..I'm not warrantying it at all she picked up all the supplies...But since her husband is a Sheriff and my next door neighbor I'll probably have to make good on the installation..I'm surprised they didn't tell her before hand...:no:


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

no doubt!


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