# Romex in walls



## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

Hi,

Essentially, I am looking to mount an LCD TV on a bedroom wall and am a neat freak when it comes to my wiring. What I would like is for all connections including the power to be hidden in an old work box behind the TV. 

Normally I would use a powerbridge solution that eliminates the majority of these concerns as the cable used for the powerbridge solution is not "permanently powered". However, this being installed in my own home and my recent discovery of a "specialized HDTV" recessed 2 gang box with Low Voltage bracket and a recessed high voltage box, I wanted to give it a go as it is an even cleaner solution. 

What I plan on doing is feeding all of the low voltage lines directly from the basement where all of my low voltage homeruns originate from. For the surge surpressed outlet, I am hoping to power it from the existing outlet located almost directly below where I intend on locating the "new" old work box.

Low voltage wiring is my trade, however, I do enough basic electrical work to be fairly comfortable with the wiring itself. My plan is to run 2 new pieces of romex from the old work box to the existing outlet box. Remove the existing romex cable from one side of the receptacle and replace that with a connection to one of the new runs of romex. Then tie the second new romex run with the rmoex recently removed from the receptacle with a pair of wire nuts behind the receptacle inside the box.

What my primary concern is with the romex in the wall going from the existing box to the new box. I do not want to have to cut a strip of drywall out in order to staple the romex to the stud. Is it ok for the romex to float freely in the wall (I obviously will run it as close to the stud as possible)? Is it better to use a flexible conduit? If I use a flexible conduit, do I still need to secure it to the stud in some manner, defeating the purpose of using the conduit? Do note that i should be able to staple the romex at the top near the new box as I intend to run the lines before installing the box. The hole should be large enough to sneak a staple gun in there and tack it at the top.

Lastly, in case my diagram and current assumptions (based on a studfinder) are off and the existing box is on the other side of the stud, is it ok to drill a 1/2 inch hole into the stud to feed the romex through? Obviously, this would cause an ever larger issue with the whole question of is unstapled romex in a wall acceptable or a major no-no.

Thanks for your assistance.

I have attached a diagram that should make this question quite clear.


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## ByronElectric (May 6, 2010)

No. You Don't have to remove the drywall to staple the wire. You are allowed to "fish" in existing walls. But, Why not just run 1 cable from the new receptacle to the old one. 2 cables seems a little redundant. Just splice the new cable in the box and "pig tail" to the receptacle. Good luck


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

I wasn't fully thinking obviously .

Pigtailing is a much better idea, guess i was so concerned about the stapling that my brain temporarily shut down.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I have been thinking of running two new runs of romex from the one old receptacle. You were planning two new receptacles branched off the existing, right? I have been putting off doing the same thing in my master bdrm for the flat screen we have in there.
Will one handle what you intend to use at that location? In my case, one is enough since my tv has abuilt-in dvd player. So, I could actually have one vcr if I wanted to.
I mention this because we have a cable box, vcr/dvd player, and 42" tv in the lr. I wish I had two receptacles in the lr behind the cabinet instead of a strip.


P.S. The rec I paln to branch off of is the last one on the circuit so it would be simple to do.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Chances are adding two new runs of romex to an existing box will fill it over it's capacity.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> Chances are adding two new runs of romex to an existing box will fill it over it's capacity.


 
Physical capacity?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

boman47k said:


> Physical capacity?



Box fill.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

boman47k said:


> Physical capacity?


That would be my assumption.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

boman47k said:


> Physical capacity?


Yes, electrical boxes have a rated volume. Wire combinations, connectors, devices, etc also have a rated volume. The wires and associated accruements must not exceed the volume of the box.

Does that make sense, and more importantly, did I get it right all you Sparkies?


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

boman47k said:


> Physical capacity?


Yes, it's possible. There is a formula for box fill in the NEC (Table 314.16 A) and (Table 314.16 B) that covers this.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I'm not sure what you mean by ' over load its capcity'. In my case, if I added a rec behind the tv/entertainment center, I would just add another box coming off the box that is there now.
The bdrm would be basically the same since the present rec ( new) is the last one on that circuit. I'd just come off the top or bottom and run 1 run up the wall.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

boman47k said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by ' over load its capcity'. In my case, if I added a rec behind the tv/entertainment center, I would just add another box coming off the box that is there now.............


I think he means overloading the circuit.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

boman47k said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by ' over load its capcity'. In my case, if I added a rec behind the tv/entertainment center, I would just add another box coming off the box that is there now.
> The bdrm would be basically the same since the present rec ( new) is the last one on that circuit. I'd just come off the top or bottom and run 1 run up the wall.


Over fill not over load.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I am aware that there is a x amount of wires allowed per box. Thats why I asked if the op was planning to to run 2 runs from the present box. I just was not clear on what meant by over loading, whether it was amperage or number of wires.

I know I seem to have a little bit of a challenge just getting the incoming and outgoing wires in a box. Never thought about all the wire involved in pigtailing two more outgoings.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I meant incoming and outgoing wires plus the rec.

I don't need to do it here, but could you use the present rec box as a makeup box? Remove the old rec and put a blank cover on the box?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

boman47k said:


> ............. Never thought about all the wire involved in pigtailing two more outgoings.



That's why we (are supposed to) make the big bucks.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

480sparky said:


> That's why we (*are supposed to*) make the big bucks.


Heheh, I hear ya! Supposed to!

I should have said I have never thought about running two more runs of romex from an occupied box, especially if it has an incoming *and* an outgoing already in it.


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

In my case I only need 2 receptacles. All of my source equipment is located in the basement and runs throughout the house with an hdmi switch.

As such, I only need to power the TV and the sound projector.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

dcapone said:


> In my case I only need 2 receptacles. All of my source equipment is located in the basement and runs throughout the house with an hdmi switch.
> 
> As such, I only need to power the TV and the sound projector.



And how many amps does that 'only' require?


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## dcapone (Aug 7, 2008)

2-3 at most


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