# Basement Excavations for New Home Construction



## black95gt

How do you do your basement or foundation excavations? Im interested in hearing from people who DONT own an excavator or crawler loader.

The basements i will be digging will be roughly 8-9' deep on flat building lots. In loose, sandy soil, i would do this with my CAT 247B Multi-Terrain Loader. It would take a 2-3 days to do it, but i own the machine and after figuring cost of fuel and a couple hundred dollars toward future maintanence of the machine, i would still have about $800 or so to pay myself or my operator and have a nice sum left over for profit. 

Since the lots are not on loose sandy soil, I need to either hire someone to dig it or rent a machine and do it. After machine rental, fuel and labor cost, i would only profit a few hundred dollars. As somebody just starting out, this could be a big addition to making the job profitable. On the other hand, hiring it done would be quicker and more efficient, and I wouldn't have to worry about something happening to the rental equipment and potentially being liable for the repair costs.


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## tgeb

I have excavated basements with skid steer loader and backhoe. If that is what you have and time is not an issue, go for it.

Why are you digging 8-9' deep, will these have 10' walls?


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## greg24k

For the same money you can get someone to dig if got you using excavator and be done in a few hours... not to mention with an excavator you can be at the right footing debth and keep the rest of the basement elevation higher, it will save you time to bring fill back in to bring the height for the stone under the slab. 

Like Tom said, why are you going so deep...even with a 10' wall, did you accounted for the windows...?

On the general note, your basement should be staked out by a surveyor and it should have your finished basement or first floor elevation and you should calculate your depth based on that number and be high enough not to end up with window wells.


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## dayexco

i'm 3 hrs north of you, sounds mighty cheap to me


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## Sar-Con

Owning a loader doesn't make you an excavator....

Hire it out and be on the ground to set grades, supervise, run your loader to stockpile topsoil, load trucks. Lots of work to do besides sitting in the seat.


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## greg24k

dayexco said:


> i'm 3 hrs north of you, sounds mighty cheap to me


I pay about 1,000-1,200 to dig a basement approximately 3,000 SF house 5- 6' deep and about the same to backfill... My guy starts at 7-8 and with layout he usually done by 2-3pm. Of course removing dirt, etc is extra, for that about 50-75 pet load depends how far the dirt is going, and sometimes I find someone who needs dirt so I will break even on that.


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## Precision10

2-3 days to dig a basement is a long time and your using the most expensive machine to up keep to do it. I guess if you have nothing to do go for it. This would be my very last option though. You would be better off renting an excavator and getting it done in a day . You can then spend the other 1-2 days being more productive.


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## backhoe1

Seems kind of silly to dig it with a skid loader, you'll have to have a backhoe or excavator there to dig water and sewer right? It takes us 1 day to dig water/sewer and basement. If I'm only doing the utilities, chances are you're still paying for the rest of the day anyway.


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## backhoe1

To answer your question, in the town where I grew up there were no excavators. The local gravel guys dug most all basements with a wheel loader. They just started back aways and dug a ramp down and backed out. It can be done.


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## overanalyze

One of our excavation crews use two big ass track driven skid steers and a mini excavator. They will have the cleanest, neatest hole you have ever seen. They dig a normal simple basement in a half day or so. It's cool to see it done that way...different...but it works for them. It's costs us somewhere around $1800-$2500 depending on the size of the hole. They are actually cheaper than our other excavation crew that uses a track hoe.


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## black95gt

Thanks for the replys! 

my basements will have 9' walls with window wells. The excavation depth will certainly vary in accordance with the finish floor height, which is typically built about 2.5'-3' higher than the Street Curb elevation. The sewer lateral could make the finish floor higher as well. 

The question i posted here isnt project specific, but looking for advice prior to putting my cost estimates together. My 1900sf house, 3 car garage and rear frost wall(walk out basement) was going to cost me $1500 for excavation. I ended up doing it with a skid loader in about 1/2 a day, but it was into a hill and all sand. The houses i will be doing will only be 1100-1300sf. I havent talked to any excavation companies, but most are hungry for work right now and can probably get pretty competetive prices, maybe under $1000. 

I was a surveyor for 10 years so i will be doing all of my own staking and grade chasing.


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## skcolo

Basement excavation should be left to excavators. You need good hard virgin soil to set the footings on, assuming they are footings. If you over-excavate, then you are filling an area and putting footings on top of it. Leave stuff like that to pros who do it everyday.

And with all due respect, if you can dig a 1900 sf basement and garage with a skid in half a day, even a walkout, you should be giving advice instead of asking questions.

As for the depth of the hole to the other posters, we put in 10' walls here all the time. Minimum of 9' on any custom. If you are in an existing neighborhood with small lots and needing piers, it gets even deeper, depending on a structural floor.


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## dayexco

black95gt said:


> Thanks for the replys!
> 
> my basements will have 9' walls with window wells. The excavation depth will certainly vary in accordance with the finish floor height, which is typically built about 2.5'-3' higher than the Street Curb elevation. The sewer lateral could make the finish floor higher as well.
> 
> The question i posted here isnt project specific, but looking for advice prior to putting my cost estimates together. My 1900sf house, 3 car garage and rear frost wall(walk out basement) was going to cost me $1500 for excavation. I ended up doing it with a skid loader in about 1/2 a day, but it was into a hill and all sand. The houses i will be doing will only be 1100-1300sf. I havent talked to any excavation companies, but most are hungry for work right now and can probably get pretty competetive prices, maybe under $1000.
> 
> I was a surveyor for 10 years so i will be doing all of my own staking and grade chasing.



were that hole approx 8' deep, 2' overdig...that's approx 700 cubic yards. you get the done for $1500? man, that's what? $2.15-$2.35 a yard? up here, they're running anywhere from $3.50-$4.00. they doing them by the hour there? day in, day out a 200 size hoe by the time you figure mobe in and out, set up, trim passes...you're going to average about 60-70 yds an hr....that's giving him about $115-$130 an hr....which isn't too bad....but still, quite a bit cheaper than what we get here per cubic yard. i won't dig a hole by the hour for just that reason.


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## black95gt

dayexco said:


> were that hole approx 8' deep, 2' overdig...that's approx 700 cubic yards. you get the done for $1500? man, that's what? $2.15-$2.35 a yard? up here, they're running anywhere from $3.50-$4.00. they doing them by the hour there? day in, day out a 200 size hoe by the time you figure mobe in and out, set up, trim passes...you're going to average about 60-70 yds an hr....that's giving him about $115-$130 an hr....which isn't too bad....but still, quite a bit cheaper than what we get here per cubic yard. i won't dig a hole by the hour for just that reason.


I wasnt given a per yard or hourly price, just a job price. $1k-1.5k seems to be about the going rate for digging a basement in my area. Any more than that i find that to be pretty expensive for digging a hole in less than a day. At $4/yd here, your machines wouldnt get many hours put on them and you'd probably be pretty hungry.


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## black95gt

skcolo said:


> Basement excavation should be left to excavators. You need good hard virgin soil to set the footings on, assuming they are footings. If you over-excavate, then you are filling an area and putting footings on top of it. Leave stuff like that to pros who do it everyday.
> 
> And with all due respect, if you can dig a 1900 sf basement and garage with a skid in half a day, even a walkout, you should be giving advice instead of asking questions.
> 
> As for the depth of the hole to the other posters, we put in 10' walls here all the time. Minimum of 9' on any custom. If you are in an existing neighborhood with small lots and needing piers, it gets even deeper, depending on a structural floor.


In all fairness, the garage footings were only excavated down 2-3' and the basement excavated from 1' in the back to about 6' in the front, then 60' of frost wall. It was all sand and was basically cut into the slope and pull it back out. After the walls were placed and the structure built, I had about 3 days worth of back filling around the house to build up a yard. Since this was my house, i did that during my off time


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## CanDoExcavating

We still use loaders for large walkout homes, and have dug additions with skidders when you can't get in with a excavator. If ya have time why not


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## PipeGuy

black95gt said:


> $1k-1.5k seems to be about the going rate for digging a basement in my area. Any more than that i find that to be pretty expensive for digging a hole in less than a day.


Pretty expensive? :blink:b Really?

If a guy running a small excavating business can hustle enough to bill five days a week every week week of the year at $1500 a day he wouldn't even *BILL* $400K a year. Call me jaded. I just don't characterize that as "expensive" when it demands 24x7 attention and at least $50K cash on hand at any given time just to be able to sleep well at night. But I guess someone, somewhere's, getting it done for $280K or so (75% of 6 days a week at $1200 / day). More power to'em.


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## rino1494

PipeGuy said:


> Pretty expensive? :blink:b Really?
> 
> If a guy running a small excavating business can hustle enough to bill five days a week every week week of the year at $1500 a day he wouldn't even *BILL* $400K a year. Call me jaded. I just don't characterize that as "expensive" when it demands 24x7 attention and at least $50K cash on hand at any given time just to be able to sleep well at night. But I guess someone, somewhere's, getting it done for $280K or so (75% of 6 days a week at $1200 / day). More power to'em.


Great way to put it into perspective :thumbsup:


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## Upchuck

PipeGuy said:


> Pretty expensive? :blink:b Really?
> 
> If a guy running a small excavating business can hustle enough to bill five days a week every week week of the year at $1500 a day he wouldn't even *BILL* $400K a year. Call me jaded. I just don't characterize that as "expensive" when it demands 24x7 attention and at least $50K cash on hand at any given time just to be able to sleep well at night. But I guess someone, somewhere's, getting it done for $280K or so (75% of 6 days a week at $1200 / day). More power to'em.


I've heard guys say "I'm happy making x per day" no matter what they are doing. I just shake my head. It's like they don't have a clue how to figure a job.


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## Joasis

I will give you another perspective. This again goes back to my schedule, my bank account, and that I have the equipment. If I have one house to do, I bring out the 580 and Bobcat, and go after it. If we are busy, then it makes all the economic sense to sub it out. But I will maintain the ability to do it in house if we are slow.....ain't steak, but a hamburger will feed you.

Yeah, I know, what does a GC know? I know what it is like to be at either end, and we don't do enough basements to matter, but I have 2 on the books as of today to do.


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## rino1494

In the spring we had the radiator in our 977 fixed. Just the core cost $2,000. A steel oil cooler line was rotted. Just that pipe was $400. All labor was done by us, which took (2) 1/2 days.

Had a customer call and needed a parking lot fixed. It is just stone and has about 10 potholes that will swallow a VW. I gave him a price of $3,400. He told me I was nuts. I said, how much do you want to spend. He said only $1,200. I said, no sir, you are the one who is nuts. Get somebody else.


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## greg24k

rino1494 said:


> In the spring we had the radiator in our 977 fixed. Just the core cost $2,000. A steel oil cooler line was rotted. Just that pipe was $400. All labor was done by us, which took (2) 1/2 days.
> 
> Had a customer call and needed a parking lot fixed. It is just stone and has about 10 potholes that will swallow a VW. I gave him a price of $3,400. He told me I was nuts. I said, how much do you want to spend. He said only $1,200. I said, no sir, you are the one who is nuts. Get somebody else.


Rino, it would be nice if I put an engine in my truck and have a guy who needs his stairs repaired pick up the whole tab ... same like a guy with 10 pot hole job to rebuild your whole excavator. :laughing: 
I respect you and all, you a knowledgeable guy, but we both know $3,400 even if it take you a whole day, which I highly doubt it took the whole day with your experience... it is a crazy price, unless this guy is a HO and don't know prices. 

If this guy a GC and been doing this for a while, then no matter how you swing it, you cannot get to that price if you put it in perspective.


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## black95gt

PipeGuy said:


> Pretty expensive? :blink:b Really?
> 
> If a guy running a small excavating business can hustle enough to bill five days a week every week week of the year at $1500 a day he wouldn't even *BILL* $400K a year. Call me jaded. I just don't characterize that as "expensive" when it demands 24x7 attention and at least $50K cash on hand at any given time just to be able to sleep well at night. But I guess someone, somewhere's, getting it done for $280K or so (75% of 6 days a week at $1200 / day). More power to'em.


Yeah, if the going rate for a good contractor to come in and dig a hole is $1200, then anymore than that is expensive. As a contractor, i am worried about my bottom line, not my sub contractors, especially when doing Spec Homes. I could care less about how much my sub contractor bills out every year. As long as he gives me a fair price, does a quality job and does what was agreed upon, then i'm happy. If the sub gives me a price to do a job and he isnt making money on it, then he needs to go through and rethink his business strategy.

In my area, there are no contractors that just dig basements that i know of. Some of the biggest earthmoving companies do small jobs such as basements, which is most likely the companies that i will sub out to. At $1200 a day, they would rather bring that excavator over and have it running, then having it sit on a project site not in use during that day.

I had a fairly big earthmoving company pull 1 End Dump off a huge jobsite he had going to bring me 10 loads of dirt one day. His price was $15 a truck cheaper then the other 3 companies that gave me quotes!


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## rino1494

greg24k said:


> Rino, it would be nice if I put an engine in my truck and have a guy who needs his stairs repaired pick up the whole tab ... same like a guy with 10 pot hole job to rebuild your whole excavator. :laughing:
> I respect you and all, you a knowledgeable guy, but we both know $3,400 even if it take you a whole day, which I highly doubt it took the whole day with your experience... it is a crazy price, unless this guy is a HO and don't know prices.
> 
> If this guy a GC and been doing this for a while, then no matter how you swing it, you cannot get to that price if you put it in perspective.


Did I say I was paying for for my excavator on 1 job ?? The point is, it is all about overhead. We have expensive equipment that is very expensive to repair. The general population, even other trades do not understand what it costs us to operate. The avg. capernter grabs his circular saw and hammer and goes home. The excavator goes home at night and is changing tires, fixing leaks, cutting, welding and repairing just to go to work the next day.

As far as the parking lot job, it included digging out the potholes, hauling away excess material, installing a shale sub-base in the potholes, regrading parking lot and supplying, placing and compacting 2A modified. I had $1,600 in material alone. Then I have mobilization of 3 machines with a truck that gets 4 mpg towing a $60,000 lowboy with 12 tires that cost $400/piece. Lets not forget about the $5,000/yr trucking insurance too.


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## Upchuck

greg24k said:


> Rino, it would be nice if I put an engine in my truck and have a guy who needs his stairs repaired pick up the whole tab ... same like a guy with 10 pot hole job to rebuild your whole excavator. :laughing:
> I respect you and all, you a knowledgeable guy, but we both know $3,400 even if it take you a whole day, which I highly doubt it took the whole day with your experience... it is a crazy price, unless this guy is a HO and don't know prices.
> 
> If this guy a GC and been doing this for a while, then no matter how you swing it, you cannot get to that price if you put it in perspective.


How can you comment on the price without knowing the specifics. If he was filling the 10 holes with a bobcat it would be one thing but considering his scope of work the costs can be justified.

How would you like if you posted a job you priced without specifics
and another contractor told you it was a crazy price.

I would think a professional would ask what the specifics of a job were before commenting.


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## Upchuck

black95gt said:


> Yeah, if the going rate for a good contractor to come in and dig a hole is $1200, then anymore than that is expensive. As a contractor, i am worried about my bottom line, not my sub contractors, especially when doing Spec Homes. I could care less about how much my sub contractor bills out every year. As long as he gives me a fair price, does a quality job and does what was agreed upon, then i'm happy. If the sub gives me a price to do a job and he isnt making money on it, then he needs to go through and rethink his business strategy.
> 
> In my area, there are no contractors that just dig basements that i know of. Some of the biggest earthmoving companies do small jobs such as basements, which is most likely the companies that i will sub out to. At $1200 a day, they would rather bring that excavator over and have it running, then having it sit on a project site not in use during that day.
> 
> I had a fairly big earthmoving company pull 1 End Dump off a huge jobsite he had going to bring me 10 loads of dirt one day. His price was $15 a truck cheaper then the other 3 companies that gave me quotes!


There is no doubt that everyone is looking at the bottom line. I don't complain about anyone who can get a quality job at a good price. 

A few things though:
1. I don't know what you consider a big earthmoving company. Around here those guys are doing big work and they rather leave there machine sitting becasue they have mutiple machines anyway than mobilizing, paying a union operator for 1200 or a one day job.

2. There are many smaller companies like ours that do residential. I have a hard time figuring what 1200 for a foundation means. Does it mean I have a to provide excavator, labor with laser for grades, etc. I give people house excavation packages that include exc., backfill, utilities & all grading depending on house size & other variables because I've never dug a foundation I haven't backfilled. 

3. In all trades there are the cheaper contractors. The one thing that has struck me with all the storm damage in western Mass. (tornado, micro burst, 2011 oct snowstorm) is that people are always looking for the cheaper price. They don't realize that if they get there owm permit the contractor has no liabilty. That some guys don't have insurance. Some guys are tricky with there insurance. It is a gamble that people are willing to take. 

I'm not trying to make blanket statements because we all live in different parts of the country so things could be different where you live & I'm speaking about my area.

Btw, do you price your jobs by the "going rate"? I've noticed some guys are very organized on there prices but want the subs to work at the "going rate".


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## Moxley-Kidwell

Hoe or a 953, skid steer seems like you would be losing money. Can't even think what someone would say or how they would look at me if I told them I would get my guy on site with our T300. Talk to you in a week when we're done, they would look at me like I had 3 heads or something. Thats a ton of work for a skid loader, especially about a cy at a time if you are lucky with a bigger machine.

Rino, I think most of us are with you on the parking lot. I added it up on my end and I'm over $3200 without even considering what equipment or truck to use. At $1200 they can find a driveway guy that can carry the whole fleet on one single axle truck and a trailer, but not even sure if they would do it for that. Seems more like a guy renting a skid steer and doing it on the weekend for beer money, not any business guy I know.


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## greg24k

Moxley-Kidwell said:


> Hoe or a 953, skid steer seems like you would be losing money. Can't even think what someone would say or how they would look at me if I told them I would get my guy on site with our T300. Talk to you in a week when we're done, they would look at me like I had 3 heads or something. Thats a ton of work for a skid loader, especially about a cy at a time if you are lucky with a bigger machine.
> 
> Rino, I think most of us are with you on the parking lot. I added it up on my end and I'm over $3200 without even considering what equipment or truck to use. At $1200 they can find a driveway guy that can carry the whole fleet on one single axle truck and a trailer, but not even sure if they would do it for that. Seems more like a guy renting a skid steer and doing it on the weekend for beer money, not any business guy I know.


I don't know what you been counting to come up with that number but with this kind of prices around here, you be sitting home sucking on your thumb... But I like your sense of humor " Seems more like a guy renting a skid steer and doing it on the weekend for beer money, not any business guy I know" Thanks for that, I could use a laugh.

My guy just did a garage demo for me and he didn't want to charge me anything, I had to force $1,200 into his pocket. He got a huge outfit and he been doing my work almost 30 years. He got about... not to BS you about 10m in equipment and everything is working day in and out.
He was moving this excavator from one job to another and the other job was 15 min from me so he told me, if I could wait for that, he would take care of this for me. It took him 20 min to take it down and load it up, he send one of his trucks with a dumpster and got rid of it all... he would have done faster if the slab had to go. 

He did another job for me last year, install storm drain for the 2 houses I was building,,, cut, remove and dispose 250' of road, 8" concrete road with re-bar +2" blacktop cap, remove and dispose excavated dirt, install 6" storm drain with 2 clean-outs behind the curb, new stone, compacted and repaved, 1 1/2 days total, off duty cop to control traffic both days, total job $6,500. 

Let's not forget now what is the cost of the stone now days... I'm as GC I pay $14 per ton and I buy when I do basements, or construction pad, etc. He probably gets it for $8-9 if not better for the amount of stone he is buying. So what we're talking about here... definitely not about working for a six pack on the weekend... Is what this guy do and been doing for generations and they're one of the best in the business.

Don't get me wrong, if you you find a HO who don't know anything, not to mention prices... and when you drop a few pieces of equipment and sit and play in his backyard moving dirt from one side to another a bucket at the time... God Bless you... I am with you, after all it is all about making money.:thumbsup:

With that said, I just saw what Rino said " 60k lowboy, 12 tires at 400 a pop, etc, and then he said all there was 10 holes and just some stone to grade... so I was busting his OO and then the Happy Amateur hour started :thumbsup::laughing: JK


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## Upchuck

greg24k said:


> I don't know what you been counting to come up with that number but with this kind of prices around here, you be sitting home sucking on your thumb... But I like your sense of humor " Seems more like a guy renting a skid steer and doing it on the weekend for beer money, not any business guy I know" Thanks for that, I could use a laugh.
> 
> My guy just did a garage demo for me and he didn't want to charge me anything, I had to force $1,200 into his pocket. He got a huge outfit and he been doing my work almost 30 years. He got about... not to BS you about 10m in equipment and everything is working day in and out.
> He was moving this excavator from one job to another and the other job was 15 min from me so he told me, if I could wait for that, he would take care of this for me. It took him 20 min to take it down and load it up, he send one of his trucks with a dumpster and got rid of it all... he would have done faster if the slab had to go.
> 
> He did another job for me last year, install storm drain for the 2 houses I was building,,, cut, remove and dispose 250' of road, 8" concrete road with re-bar +2" blacktop cap, remove and dispose excavated dirt, install 6" storm drain with 2 clean-outs behind the curb, new stone, compacted and repaved, 1 1/2 days total, off duty cop to control traffic both days, total job $6,500.
> 
> Let's not forget now what is the cost of the stone now days... I'm as GC I pay $14 per ton and I buy when I do basements, or construction pad, etc. He probably gets it for $8-9 if not better for the amount of stone he is buying. So what we're talking about here... definitely not about working for a six pack on the weekend... Is what this guy do and been doing for generations and they're one of the best in the business.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, if you you find a HO who don't know anything, not to mention prices... and when you drop a few pieces of equipment and sit and play in his backyard moving dirt from one side to another a bucket at the time... God Bless you... I am with you, after all it is all about making money.:thumbsup:
> 
> With that said, I just saw what Rino said " 60k lowboy, 12 tires at 400 a pop, etc, and then he said all there was 10 holes and just some stone to grade... so I was busting his OO and then the Happy Amateur hour started :thumbsup::laughing: JK


Sorry, didn't realize you were busting chops. As far as your guy those prices are cheap & he must be a buddy if he didn't want money for the demo. 

Even if he has 10 mil in equipment I find it hard to believe he gets stone $4-5/ton cheaper than you. Of course, I'm going off my experience in my area.


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## backhoe1

How are you doing garage footings? 6 1/2' wide? How much will that cost in extra gravel and compaction to backfill? $1K or so to dig sounds about right if I'm already there doing utilities. Have you answered the question about water and sewer yet?


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## black95gt

backhoe1 said:


> How are you doing garage footings? 6 1/2' wide? How much will that cost in extra gravel and compaction to backfill? $1K or so to dig sounds about right if I'm already there doing utilities. Have you answered the question about water and sewer yet?


depending on the footing width and depth, 6-7' wood be the trench width. I like to use 2' footings opposed to plan footings of 18"-21". For a few hundred in extra concrete is a good peace of mind. The price doesnt include utility excavations. I will need to talk to my plumbers for that. It would probably be cheaper to have them exccavate water and sewer on site, but typically the plumber coordinates all the sewer and water laterals and is included in their bid. Some of the septic guys in town do basement excavations and will run the laterals and do the tie ins instead of using the plumber. This could be the way to go.


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## black95gt

Upchuck said:


> There is no doubt that everyone is looking at the bottom line. I don't complain about anyone who can get a quality job at a good price.
> 
> A few things though:
> 1. I don't know what you consider a big earthmoving company. Around here those guys are doing big work and they rather leave there machine sitting becasue they have mutiple machines anyway than mobilizing, paying a union operator for 1200 or a one day job.
> 
> 2. There are many smaller companies like ours that do residential. I have a hard time figuring what 1200 for a foundation means. Does it mean I have a to provide excavator, labor with laser for grades, etc. I give people house excavation packages that include exc., backfill, utilities & all grading depending on house size & other variables because I've never dug a foundation I haven't backfilled.
> 
> 3. In all trades there are the cheaper contractors. The one thing that has struck me with all the storm damage in western Mass. (tornado, micro burst, 2011 oct snowstorm) is that people are always looking for the cheaper price. They don't realize that if they get there owm permit the contractor has no liabilty. That some guys don't have insurance. Some guys are tricky with there insurance. It is a gamble that people are willing to take.
> 
> I'm not trying to make blanket statements because we all live in different parts of the country so things could be different where you live & I'm speaking about my area.
> 
> Btw, do you price your jobs by the "going rate"? I've noticed some guys are very organized on there prices but want the subs to work at the "going rate".


Big around here would be 15 trucks (end dumps and side dumps) with several excavators, dozers, graders, rollers ect. They arent huge operations, but this area doesnt require huge operations. Point being, they will still go after the small jobs even though they have big jobs going. 

For the " $1200 " price all i am looking for is the basement and garage footings to be dug. No backfilling or utility laterals. I give them the building corners and they pull their own over excavation points. I give them a benchmark and determine the basement floor elevation, and they take it from there. I can backfill and grade with a skid loader that is paid for. Of course this is small scale stuff. Lots of grading, then i would get a price for the whole package.


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## Moxley-Kidwell

greg24k said:


> I don't know what you been counting to come up with that number but with this kind of prices around here, you be sitting home sucking on your thumb... But I like your sense of humor " Seems more like a guy renting a skid steer and doing it on the weekend for beer money, not any business guy I know" Thanks for that, I could use a laugh.
> 
> My guy just did a garage demo for me and he didn't want to charge me anything, I had to force $1,200 into his pocket. He got a huge outfit and he been doing my work almost 30 years. He got about... not to BS you about 10m in equipment and everything is working day in and out.
> He was moving this excavator from one job to another and the other job was 15 min from me so he told me, if I could wait for that, he would take care of this for me. It took him 20 min to take it down and load it up, he send one of his trucks with a dumpster and got rid of it all... he would have done faster if the slab had to go.
> 
> He did another job for me last year, install storm drain for the 2 houses I was building,,, cut, remove and dispose 250' of road, 8" concrete road with re-bar +2" blacktop cap, remove and dispose excavated dirt, install 6" storm drain with 2 clean-outs behind the curb, new stone, compacted and repaved, 1 1/2 days total, off duty cop to control traffic both days, total job $6,500.
> 
> Let's not forget now what is the cost of the stone now days... I'm as GC I pay $14 per ton and I buy when I do basements, or construction pad, etc. He probably gets it for $8-9 if not better for the amount of stone he is buying. So what we're talking about here... definitely not about working for a six pack on the weekend... Is what this guy do and been doing for generations and they're one of the best in the business.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, if you you find a HO who don't know anything, not to mention prices... and when you drop a few pieces of equipment and sit and play in his backyard moving dirt from one side to another a bucket at the time... God Bless you... I am with you, after all it is all about making money.:thumbsup:
> 
> With that said, I just saw what Rino said " 60k lowboy, 12 tires at 400 a pop, etc, and then he said all there was 10 holes and just some stone to grade... so I was busting his OO and then the Happy Amateur hour started :thumbsup::laughing: JK


You must have a pretty good friend there. $1200 would barely cover the cost of dump fees to get rid of the structure/concrete around here. Either that or he is making so much $$ that it doesn't matter, although do too many of these type things and that 10m in equipment will be auctioned off by Richie Bros.

My comment toward Rino was in support of what he told a customer about the pot holes. I'm with him, if $1200 is all the guy was looking to spend seems like you would lose $. The amateur hour BS I'm going to take as a jk (as you said, but not sure if it was directed toward me or not) I do hope it was cause we all are out to make money, we're not non profits.

That being said, I'm not saying we never do anything small for our customers because we do small T&M work all the time. Got a few T&M tickets in front of me now to bill, $1140.00 & $1360.00 If it were someone we don't do regular business with and we had to mob. in to do a few potholes you need to make some $. I guess a lot of businesses don't take into account everything that I like to when giving prices. Even if the equipment is paid for you still need to charge for it or you'll never be able to replace it. You still have fuel, ins. work comp., maint., man hours, mob., overhead, office, ..........
My partner had a business with millions in equipment also, but if you don't at least try to make $ on everything you do it won't take long til you have to start over. Believe me I know, it's not fun!! There are a lot of companies out there that "look" like they are making $$$ with all new equip and trucks and they can have 10m in equip. stay busy all day long but if you aren't profitable whats the point. We're pretty lucky to stay busy right now, hope everyone else is also!!!!


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## rino1494

We are off topic, but either way. The the guy with the parking lot just wanted me to go in with the dozer and knock down the humps and fill the holes in and maybe put 1 or 2 loads of 2A in the holes. I told him that the potholes will come right back. He said, yeah, but it won't be for at least a year. I said, they will be back within 1 week. The job is right along a busy stretch of road in a area where I do a majority of my work. I told him if I am doing it, I am doing it right. I don't want people think that we did a crappy job.

As far as the larger guy doing stuff cheaper, he can because of the volume of work. If a little guy that does $500,000/yr gets 10% profit, that is $50,000. If a larger guy does $3 million/yr at 10% profit, that is $300,000/yr. I think he could afford to give a guy that he has been doing work for for 30 yrs a break. We sometimes give breaks to our bread and butter customer who we have been working for 22 yrs.


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## Gld700

rino1494 said:


> Did I say I was paying for for my excavator on 1 job ?? The point is, it is all about overhead. We have expensive equipment that is very expensive to repair. The general population, even other trades do not understand what it costs us to operate. The avg. capernter grabs his circular saw and hammer and goes home. The excavator goes home at night and is changing tires, fixing leaks, cutting, welding and repairing just to go to work the next day.
> 
> As far as the parking lot job, it included digging out the potholes, hauling away excess material, installing a shale sub-base in the potholes, regrading parking lot and supplying, placing and compacting 2A modified. I had $1,600 in material alone. Then I have mobilization of 3 machines with a truck that gets 4 mpg towing a $60,000 lowboy with 12 tires that cost $400/piece. Lets not forget about the $5,000/yr trucking insurance too.


AMEN!!!!! Rhino


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## Gld700

You are so right rhino. If most people only knew what our overhead was all about they would think differently. In our area gcs are the worst!!


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## rino1494

Gld700 said:


> You are so right rhino. If most people only knew what our overhead was all about they would think differently. In our area gcs are the worst!!


One of the reasons why we are last to get paid. If we turn a bill in for $30,000 and the plumber, electrician, HVAC, flooring guy, roofer and sheetrocker all turns bills in that are a combined total of $30,000. Who will get paid first ?? Would the GC spend $30,000 to keep 1 guy happy or 6 people happy.


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