# Cultured Stone against EPS



## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

I read somewhere, someone was laying cultured stone against ICF, which is basically EPS foam. Has anyone ever laid cultured stone against EPS? If so, did you use metal lath, acrylic mortar etc? Thanks for your help.

This is the foamcutter, I designed, cutting some 1# EPS. It can cut two 39x48x120'' blocks of foam simultaneously.





Cutting some "fluted column" samples in 2#EPS ...


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I did an ICF house and used wire lath, I wouldn't attach it directly to the foam


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## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks.
Did you screw the lath to the foam? If so, what size screws and how far apart?


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

3Dsigns said:


> I read somewhere, someone was laying cultured stone against ICF, which is basically EPS foam. Has anyone ever laid cultured stone against EPS? If so, did you use metal lath, acrylic mortar etc? Thanks for your help.
> 
> This is the foamcutter, I designed, cutting some 1# EPS. It can cut two 39x48x120'' blocks of foam simultaneously.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ09OzxK5VQ
> ...


Don't know about the cultured stone against ICF but want to compliment you on your foamcutter! It looks like an amazing, and complicated, piece of machinery.


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## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks, it was a lot of fun to build. I'm presently adding a 5th axis rotary table, for cutting round stuff like large ball finials, spires etc. I have it working and should have it mounted on the machine's bed this week.
https://www.facebook.com/451568945003095/videos/vb.451568945003095/548024022024253/?type=3&theater


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

3Dsigns said:


> Thanks.
> Did you screw the lath to the foam? If so, what size screws and how far apart?


Yes, I used 2" screws with washers that are meant for stucco nails. I can't remember the spacing exactly but I think it was into every 2nd nailing strip and 1' apart vertically, with lots of extras added around openings etc, but i would follow the thins stone manufacturers recommendations.

That was almost 10 years ago and I see the owners reasonably frequently and there are no complaints (actually one of my go to recommendations). The husband is the owner of a large engineering firm and I'm sure I would hear if there were any problems


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## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks a million! I will draw and post photos of what I plan to build.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

While EPS is used in ICFs, there are typically fastening strips embedded in the foam.

ICFs are also on the denser side of EPS.

I think the question of cultured stone against EPS isn't what you are getting at, more fastening the two together?

Consider this:
Synthetic stucco is applied with an acrylic modified base coat that "sticks" to the EPS. A manufactured stone product typically is applied with mortar to a substrate that is "hanging" on the wall. So lath is hung on the wall with screws or nails and the mortar locks to the lath and the stones bond to the mortar. The EPS by itself isn't what lath is attached to. It's either studs behind the EPS or the embedded fastening strips

So the idea of putting manufactured stone over EPS isn't an issue, but the EPS by itself doesn't doesn't provide a mechanical attachment point.

Depending on what you want to make, there may be an acceptable fastener one could embed in the EPS.

I hope this what you were trying to figure out.


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## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks
This monument shape, if made of 2# foam, which is one of the denser types, would only weigh about 150#. The base would be made from block and concrete. Most of these type monuments are made entirely of foam and basically sit on grade with no slab needed. They typically just embed a couple of SCH40 PVC sleeves in the foam, and slip the sign down over a couple of galvanized pipes embedded in concrete. That's all that is needed because the signs are so light.
But this one, if faced with cultured stone, will obviously need some concrete foundation. The main "wall" the CS will be attached to, is only about 6' high and the bottom courses of CS would rest on the ledge of a slab. I could attach lath with extra-long screws if needed. Or I could check into using the ICF if possible. But sonething tells me I wont be able to cut that out on my foamcutting machine because of the embeded strips.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Im not sure how thick the foam is, but could you cut through it to slide some 2x4 PT through and anchor something to it? Could even plywood both sides or even cement board it if there was something going all the way through. 

Im not sure if screws will hold in the foam but what do I know


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I would base coat the foam with an embedded mesh, then add a 3/8" to 1/2" fibered scratch coat, stick the stone with thinset and not worry about it.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Am I reading this correctly? The entire sign above grade is foam? Where are these typically used?


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## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

NJ Brickie said:


> Am I reading this correctly? The entire sign above grade is foam? Where are these typically used?


http://www.foamcraft.info/monument-signs.php


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Thanks. I've never seen an all foam sign. The EIFS covered signs look very good. The faux stone and brick is brutal though. 

How does the impact test equate to usage? What I'm getting at is, what damages the sign? Shopping cart? Or substantially more impact?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh, i thought you were asking about ICFs specifically. I attached to the ICF nailing strips


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I think he used ICF to give you an idea of the foam density.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Yeah, I get it now, just didn;t read it that way at first


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## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

NJ Brickie said:


> Thanks. I've never seen an all foam sign. The EIFS covered signs look very good. The faux stone and brick is brutal though.
> 
> How does the impact test equate to usage? What I'm getting at is, what damages the sign? Shopping cart? Or substantially more impact?


Other than vehicle accidents or vandalism, where these are typically installed accidental damage isn't that likely. But according to this impact test, with their particular hard coat, it can take a pretty good wallop.....
http://www.foamcraft.info/hammer.php


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Hollywood props come off the sound stage and go into the "real" World.

Wait till the crows/Rats/squirrels/mice figure out the foam back up is near perfect nesting areas, warm/cool and dry year around comfort behind a 1.5" of light weight concrete.:whistling
That 3 D cutter would be durn handy on the movie & TV stages....


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## 3Dsigns (Mar 2, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Hollywood props come off the sound stage and go into the "real" World.
> 
> Wait till the crows/Rats/squirrels/mice figure out the foam back up is near perfect nesting areas, warm/cool and dry year around comfort behind a 1.5" of light weight concrete.:whistling
> That 3 D cutter would be durn handy on the movie & TV stages....


That's what they make shotguns, traps and kitty cats for.  Actually, this same EPS foam is used to create outdoor architectural elements too. You can find it decorating the facades of nearly every shopping center, mall, and strip mall around here, and it's typically cut with a CNC hot wire machine.
This is the company I'm buying mine from, you can see some examples here.....
http://www.drewfoam.com/


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