# Generator



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

480sparky said:


> ATSs are more than MTSs, and you need more gear when using an ATS.
> 
> But the highest line-item is still the genny.



Ya I agree. I was referring to costs after the generator.


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

When I did mine years ago, I used a WP power inlet with a small 10-circuit Coleman transfer panel, but when I change the service and panel next spring, I’m going to go with an interlock kit instead. They didn’t have them back when I did the original install. 
I hear that Yamaha makes very nice, quite generators with decent voltage regulation, but they are bookoo bucks.

Right now I still have a sweet little 3200 Watt Coleman Powermate from around 1998 with a smooth little Suzuki engine that’s so quite I can barely hear it running. 
If it ever breaks though, I am going to be screwed as Powermate went belly up back in mid 2008.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

griz said:


> Ya I agree. I was referring to costs after the generator.



Generally, when you get into an ATS, you're talking about permanent gennies. Makes to sense to have an ATS if there's no generator for it to turn on.

So you either have a pad-mount genny, with a fuel source, a heater, a battery, most likely an exercise clock, and all the attendant service-rated equipment to comply with a set of rules that come with automation, or you have a portable, MTS, and simply a way to energize the panel.


So let's say you have a 200a service. If you go with the ATS, you cannot have a load that exceeds the generator. So you either size the generator to run everything, or install some sort of load shedding mechanism. Big $$ for most people.

With a MTS, I can legally hook up a 2kW generator to that same 200a panel and let the HO choose what breakers to turn on and off.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Crap. Just typed in a long reply with my thumbs and my wireless ditched and lost my post. Here goes again. I'm thinking all i need is 5-8kw genny. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the 110/220 switch thing. My old man has a genny that has no switch so the 110 and 220 plugs are always hot simultaneously. I thought that sort of reduced available voltage to each plug. Maybe it doesn't. I don't need a pad mount setup. I can go flip breakers to adjust what I need to run. Eventually I will have a manual transfer switch. But at the moment I don't and this is what I have planned. If anyone has a problem with it please tell me why. I won't do it if it is dangerous. I'm building an addition on my house (long drawn out, wife hates me going crazy kind). We are still living in the old section of the house and have not connected yet. There is new underground service to the addition with a 200 amp panel that currently feeds our old panel in the old house. The old panel is fed with a 70 amp breaker. I planned on turning the main breaker at the transformer/meter off, turning the new 200 amp service off in the addition, removing the 70 amp breaker from the new panel and capping the wires. Then I was going to turn off the main on the old panel as well and feed into the old panel with the genny using either a 20 or 30 220 volt breaker. If that isn't safe then I won't do it. I'll just feed into the boiler directly. I'm not looking to run everything, just the essentials plus. Thanks, Nick


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Morning Wood said:


> ....... If that isn't safe then I won't do it.........


You need some sort of transfer switch. Your POCO will require it. It basically means you will not be able to energize your system with the genny until the utility it disconnected.

Turning breakers off is *NOT* an acceptable or safe method. In these parts, when line crews hear gennies running during an outage, they will check for transfer switches. If there is none, the customer gets disconnected and will not be reconnected until a transfer switch is installed & passes inspections.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

If I understand that description, you'd be okay doing it. But you'd never have any power to the original panel/house unless you had the gennie running.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Turning breakers off is *NOT* an acceptable or safe method.


I thought he said he was going to cap the wires feeding the old panel, and feed the old panel with the gennie?


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Yeah, I hear ya. But I'm running a panel that is connected to nothing. If I completely disconnect my sub panel (panel in the old house) from the 70 amp feed line u still think that is sketchy?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

You'll get nailed for a violation of 702.6. Disconnecting wires and turning breakers off is not considered "transfer equipment" designed and installed for it's intended use.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I agree that absolutely technically by the book you're right, but in practical terms that hookup is quite safe. And the breakers are only being turned off while doing the wiring change.

What I don't understand is why anyone would permanently disable normal power to the original part of the house.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Git yer self the following items:

An 8-space Square D QO 100a panel w/main lugs
Two QO270 breakers
One Square D part # QO2DTI. 
Two breaker retaining kits.

Total cost: maybe $150.

Backfeed the power from the 70a main into one breaker. Put the power from the genny into the other breaker. Take power off the main lugs to the panel you want to do all this turn-the-breaker-off-and-disconnect-the-wire crap with.

Now you have a legal transfer switch. Instead of spending half an hour monkeying around with a jerry-rigged system, you flip a switch and you're up and running.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Well, when the power came back on I'd hook it back up. A lot of work when a little bit more would have me a transfer switch. 

I know my method would work, but it isn't "legal". I'll talk to my electrician about the transfer switch sooner than later. Anyway, can we get back to the gennys?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Morning Wood said:


> Well, when the power came back on I'd hook it back up. A lot of work when a little bit more would have me a transfer switch.
> 
> I know my method would work, but it isn't "legal". I'll talk to my electrician about the transfer switch sooner than later. Anyway, can we get back to the gennys?



Well,my work here is done.








​


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Git yer self the following items:
> 
> An 8-space Square D QO 100a panel w/main lugs
> Two QO270 breakers
> ...


Thanks 480


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Morning Wood said:


> Well, when the power came back on I'd hook it back up.


Oh. Then no contest, you definitely want a switch. :thumbsup:

On the gennies, does it really need to purr like a kitten? You'll pay a premium for that sort of quiet that is really more of a luxury than a necessity--unless you're parking the thing 5' from your neighbor's window. :laughing:

Use a much less expensive portable genny, and you'll also have it available for jobsites, camping trips or whatever.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

They mostly seem to be around 75 decibels. The super pricey Honda is 62 or something. There is another that is like 68 decibels. I'd like to know how loud 75 decibels is. So not having an inverter won't f up my computers and tv?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

75 dB is pretty loud, but it's not like you're going to be parking your easy chair right up against the thing. You can do a bit of Googling and find charts that show typical noise levels from cars, jets etc.

Inverters, especially cheap ones, can give you crappier power than you'll get from most generators. Many of them put out a square wave rather than a sine wave.

The gennie I have right now is a brand X 5500W Power Boss, and it runs my computers, router, TV and whatever else I want just fine. If you're really concerned about "pure" power, get a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) and use it to filter the power for your more sensitive gear.


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## Big Chris (Dec 3, 2006)

IMO a main breaker interlock is the easiest way to go. Lets the homeowner run almost everything in the house on gen power, just not at the same time obviously.


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## MisterCMK (Oct 17, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I am armed, I just wasn't packing at the moment.
> 
> I'm taking a CCW class in 1½ weeks. :thumbsup:


I heard that IA finally passed a CCW law. Do they honor other state's permits?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

MisterCMK said:


> I heard that IA finally passed a CCW law. Do they honor other state's permits?



We've always had a CCW law. It was just changed to require sheriffs to issue a permit as long as the applicant is qualified. Up through tomorrow night, you can be denied for no reason or a silly reason.... such as the sheriff doesn't like your haircut or knew you kissed his wife back when you were in kiddygarten.

The class I'm taking will have results good in 38 states.


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## MisterCMK (Oct 17, 2009)

Aah, they weren't a shall issue state? 

What class are you taking?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

MisterCMK said:


> Aah, they weren't a shall issue state?


Only for another two days.



MisterCMK said:


> What class are you taking?


CCW. Not to just carry...


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## MisterCMK (Oct 17, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Only for another two days.
> 
> 
> 
> CCW. Not to just carry...


Are you required to conceal or can you open carry?


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