# Grounding Old 2-wire Advice ?



## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Tx, what good would that do if the other down-line receptacles are not grounded?
> Teach me.
> 
> Andy.





aptpupil said:


> They would be protected by the GFCI, though not grounded.


Apt beat me to it.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Andy and Tx.... I know I can GFI a receptical, even if it's just a 2-wire.
> My understanding, which I would certainly test as a double check, is that even in a 2-wire system, I can put the the GFI first in series and protect the entire circut. (That would significantly cut cost.) The only thing lost is the ability to use the test button in a 2-wire system.
> 
> Peter


The test button will work with a two wire system, and is the only approved means to check the GFCI. The little "outlet testers" that check GFCIs will not trip them.

If access or box size is your main concern, why not install GFCIs below the panel in new boxes. In an old house like you're dealing with, I doubt you are going to have over 4 or so circuits. This would be a quick and inexpensive solution to your problem until you rewire the home in the remodel.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Well this is what I do not understand, how can a GFCI protect anything without being grounded?
> You mean that a GFCI will work and break the circuit it is on if there is no ground connected?
> 
> Andy.


It measures the current imbalance between the hot and neutral. Anything over 5ma trips the gfci.

For your reading pleasure:http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/All-HTML/HTML/GFCI-Receptacles-Without-Ground~19991230.php


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Well this is what I do not understand, how can a GFCI protect anything without being grounded?
> You mean that a GFCI will work and break the circuit it is on if there is no ground connected?
> 
> Andy.


Yes.

Click here.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

This is from a low voltage guy that knows a little something about 120 so take my advice very carefully and with caution. 

Go ahead and run the separate ground wire for the sake of making it safer but understand that this fix will NOT bring it up to code. Also, make sure that your existing wire is copper and not aluminum. If it's aluminum wire, you will need to purchase the special receptacles.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

tedanderson said:


> ......... If it's aluminum wire, you will need to purchase the special receptacles.


Which get damned expensive in the TR version. :whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Which get damned expensive in the TR version. :whistling


Do they exist?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

TX.... From a practical standpoint and considering my daughter's situation, your idea to basically just wire in a gang of "first receptical" GFI's may be my best/most feasable solution. Thanks for the thinking... I never thought of it.

It would simplyfy things for her, and if there's a tripped circut, she would have a central, easily acsesable location, to reset any problem.

Actually, I'm not at her place right now. I'm in southern cal helping my son with his home addition for about a week till I go up to SF to help her... so I'm not quite sure of the feeds out off the old Federal Pacific box. As I recall, I think they are fed out the back of the exterior mounted main, and hopefully run directly to the attic.

Also... good to know that the GFI test button will work on a two wire system. (I assumed the test button worked like the plug-in tester).

I would have thought there was a grounding method in code, short of rewiring, for old 2-wire. But I guess there isn't... as no one seems to have knowledge of it.

From sheerly a curiosity standpoint, I still wonder if running individual ground wires is code legal.

Thanks all

Peter


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Do they exist?


Last I heard: No.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Quote:




Originally Posted by tedanderson

......... If it's aluminum wire, you will need to purchase the special receptacles.

Which get damned expensive in the TR version. 

Sparky... What does "TR" version refer to??? Sorry for the ignorence... just learning.

Peter


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tamper Resistant... Now required by 406.4(D)(5).

*Tamper-Resistant Receptacles.* Listed tamper-resistant receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be tamper-resistant elsewhere in this Code.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Tamper Resistant... Now required by 406.4(D)(5).
> 
> *Tamper-Resistant Receptacles.* Listed tamper-resistant receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be tamper-resistant elsewhere in this Code.


Sparky.... Thanks

Actually I wanted to try this quote thing on this site and see how it works.

But, as an aside as I'm just a GC and I've not studied/looked at 11/NEC as yet, is there an easy reference for the 11 changes only. Thanks


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Sparky.... Thanks
> 
> Actually I wanted to try this quote thing on this site and see how it works.
> 
> But, as an aside as I'm just a GC and I've not studied/looked at 11/NEC as yet, is there an easy reference for the 11 changes only. Thanks


Studying changes only will be futile. You need to understand the existing Codes.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Studying changes only will be futile. You need to understand the existing Codes.


Sparky....Thanks for the abbreviated artical.

As a GC, I'm never going to know the whole code, probably very few of you professional electricians can know that whole code.

However, I do like to be aware of changes without going thru the entire code.

Best to ya...

Peter


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