# Was I rude?????



## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

johnmiles said:


> It sounds like you were polite and professional.
> 
> the customer can't make a descision, right in front of her face.


I have a HO like that..after 2 weeks of discussing siding options with her while finishing up the framing, no decision for color or type was made. (This is her second home btw)

Well I show up alone one day and she wanted to know where my guys were, I said we have nothing to do until you make up your mind on the siding and are running out of time on the permit. That's what it took to get some decisions made. Pain in the tookas


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

I would like to thank everyone for their input.

I was kind of hoping someone would say " Stephen,you idiot,---the simple solution is....."

however- I think this is just one of those situations where there ARE no good solutions.

It probably wouldn't bother me so much-except that I really wanted to work with this tile...., LOL.

At this point, we probably wouldn't have gotten to the project until April 2013 and it's only a project of about 45 man-hours so it wouldn't have been a huge earner- but I wanted to do it none the less

the customer is a nice enough guy, and I really like the house- but I think it's a situation where the guy bought a house he really can't afford to maintain properly.

He teaches at a university just a few blocks from his home-so he naturally has a certain disconnect from the real world. He truly seems surprised to learn that asking for repeated proposals is NOT like window shopping at the mall, or browsing through a catalog- those proposals actually cost ME money.

thanks again all,
stephen


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

Not really rude, but maybe a tad bit blunt.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Stephen H said:


> I would like to thank everyone for their input.
> 
> I was kind of hoping someone would say " Stephen,you idiot,---the simple solution is....."
> 
> ...



I believe I understand your point, but I don't want to speculate about the HO. You may have nailed it with "a house he can't afford to properly maintain".

I spend a good deal of time on projects that do not come to fruition because of the same reasoning you have for this one. It's just a project you want to take ownership of. It's unique. It's deserving.

There should be a way to be paid as a consultant or specifier. I haven't done it because I don't quite know how, but it crosses my mind regularly. In the case you describe, you might discuss a rate for a detailed plan or specification for work that should be done. This would be written, thorough and detailed. You would be paid a proper rate for the details. It might be too late for this one?? Maybe not.

In the future it might begin with an inspection followed by a 'ballpark' cost for some unit, whether a section or the whole job. This ballpark number is really just for qualifying the intent of the HO.

Your qualifications as a competent professional who understands the unique requirements of this type of project would have to be embraced by the HO. How it is that they have come to understand this is up to you. Brochures, pamphlets, website, industry credentials or other tools that highlight your specialty are possibilities.

It's not every customer that will need to be handled this way, but there are probably enough to make this type of model part of your business. Hard surface, steep sloped roofing materials are expensive and some owners would look at a comprehensive analysis of their situation as something worth paying for.

Architects get paid for specifying roof replacement projects because someone has put faith in their ability and their credentials. I would venture that you are considerably more qualified in identifying the needs of your specialty than many, if not most, architects.

Sorry about the lengthy post. :whistling


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## deckman22 (Oct 20, 2007)

I suppose telling him to sh!t or get off the pot is out of the question.....so

I would have told him the next quote is going to cost x (insert amount you feel is appropriate) amount of dollars.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

Many different ways exist to ask them if they can "get" the money….how and when. We are iving in a world of 1/4 of owners are underwater. This may be a credit card deal, an inheritance or second mortgage. I am never bashful about asking about finances and have never had anyone take offense to doing so. I also have set up financing and refinancings for hundreds of customers and work the formulas to do those. This may not be needed for a paint job but a tile roof could be a big ticket.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Stephen H said:


> ....... I was kind of hoping someone would say " Stephen,you idiot,---the simple solution is....."


Oh, that's all you wanted.

" Stephen,you idiot,---the simple solution is....."

IMO you handled it right, you can't make a
career out of estimating and proposalizing.


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## TimberlineMD (Jan 15, 2008)

I have been thinking about the time wasted trying to get a job to the contract stage myself. I have come to the conclusion that after I give the HO an initial estimate or proposal, I will ask for a contract/agreement before I will provide further info or services.

My purpose for the estimate/bid is to get the work, not to run a free construction service. So, I must ask the HO for a commitment. If I can't get one, then I will assume that the HO is using my time to benefit himself only.


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## Big Rig (Feb 23, 2009)

Were you rude? On the contrary!
You were looking through a window, not a mirror. I'd almost say the potential(or non-potential) client was guilty of rudeness. Waste no more time or energy on this one.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

edit


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

Stephen H said:


> I would like to thank everyone for their input.
> 
> I was kind of hoping someone would say " Stephen,you idiot,---the simple solution is....."
> 
> ...



you know , apparently the guy thinks highly of you . he has called you 3 times , and probably feels he can trust you, and wantas to work with you. maybe he can`t afford you, maybe he`s just a very apprehensive guy.

in these kind of situations , i`d call a client and say " hey , lets talk totally thruthful here . is it that you feel i`m too high for you . i`d really like to do this job , whats your bottom line ?"
and see if its close .
i like to sometimes just get personal with some clients , and see whats really going on.
stop by after hours , and talk with him.
tell him just what you said on here .


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## vividpainting (Sep 13, 2011)

I think you have been more then reasonable. if you dont put your foot down some people will endlessly waste your time.


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## Ron Pestone (Nov 22, 2012)

Stephen H said:


> quick backstory-
> 
> In June,2011 I met with a prospective customer regarding some work on their tile roof- gave them a firm price for the work discussed and itemized.
> 
> ...


He sounds like a tire kicker. You were a lot kinder than I would have been.


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## jimmys (May 1, 2009)

*agree*

I agree with all these guys. Though it may be inefficient, how about offering to do the work in phases? That way his salary might fund the whole project over 2-3 years. I know, I know, best done at one time, and you'd have to get more $ for parts, but it might move him forward.
Jim


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

VAviaCo said:


> Either what you said or let him know that all further estimates will be billed at your rate with payment expected up front.
> I don't know why people think they can get 4 estimates for the same work from the same guy and still not get it done.
> There is a porch reno in my neighborhood I have quoted 3 different times with slight variations that is still sitting there untouched.
> Some people seem to keep asking for numbers until they hear one they like, which they may never.


Stephen, you were polite and tactful.

Sometimes, I think people want to do something, but they just don't want to spend the money. There are doers in society and people who always continue to put things off. Stephen, I think the person who asked for a quote is the type of person who always puts things off until their roof falls through or has a hole in it.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

jimmys said:


> I agree with all these guys. Though it may be inefficient, how about offering to do the work in phases? That way his salary might fund the whole project over 2-3 years. I know, I know, best done at one time, and you'd have to get more $ for parts, but it might move him forward.
> Jim


 Jimmy,
that's not a bad idea-I have done similar things for other folks.

with this prospect, though------ he already has things broken down into sections that could be done individually.
In the summer of 2011 I gave him a quote for a very small copper roof on a dormer and misc. tile repairs on another area

In December 2011 I gave him an additional quote on misc. tile repairs for other locations.
As of today-NONE of those things have been done and they all could have been done separately or together.

currently he wants quotes for misc. tile repairs in yet OTHER areas not previously quoted.
We are not talking big money here----all the work totals mid/high 4 figures.
If he had done ANY of the previously quoted work I would continue to quote- but since he has done NONE of it-and has instead chosen to live for over a year and a half in a house with a leaking roof----- I can only assume he can't pay.

It's a really nice house-but it was built in a different era that assumed continuing maintenance would be done throughout the life of the building. I am pretty sure the guy was tapped out buying the house and financially he is just not up to the ongoing costs of running the place.
We work on a lot of houses like this- built in an era that assumed a household "staff"- ranging in some cases to outright live in help-------to more modest situations which were probably a woman coming in several half days to handle some house work and a man coming in 1-2 days/week to do gardening/maintenace.
now-a-days this is handled with cleaning services and landscape companies etc.- I just think the guy can't afford the upkeep.

Stephen


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## jimmys (May 1, 2009)

Sounds like it's a lost cause. He'll call you back when the leak finds his tiled or paneled bathroom, or kitchen, or the middle of his bed. It'll be harder to fix and more expensive. 
He will likely call YOU since you've been more than decent to him. Then you'll have to decide if you want to work for him! I suggest $ up front.
Best luck, Jim


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

I agree with Jimmys. When he calls back raise the price and insist that he pays upfront. That is the only way I would deal with him.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

Stephen,you idiot,---the simple solution is....."


*charge for estimates.*
there will be some whiners who will even post on the internet about how bad you are for charging, and how big a job you just missed. But really we have had people say that's why they went with us because we had enough business that we could charge for estimates. I did this in 09 jan when the economy was the absolute worst, sometimes its only $10.00 and others its $30.00 depending apon how many we are booking in a week (estimates) From march till the end of Aug we do 40 estimates a week. Next year I think I am going to charge more. The sales sure went up.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

Stephen:

I wouldn't invest 6 hours in a customer that wasn't going anywhere. 

On my first visit, I would have eyed it up and said "This look to be about $XX.XX dollars worth of work. Does that sound like about what you had in mind?"

Shut up now. Do not speak until the customer does, no matter how uncomfortable the silence.

Explain that you only do detailed estimates for customers who have given a committment to getting the work done. Your time is too valueable otherwise. "If I can get you in the $XX-$YY.00 range, can we do some business?"

Shut up again. Wait for answer.

Work needs to be sold, not bid.

Joe


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