# Does a remodeler need any ex-equipment?



## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Tinstaafl said:


> Did you nail it down with your backhoe?


No, not this time.


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

jawtrs said:


> As far as pricing, it is what it is. Every body is able to charge as low as they want to, it is a free market. I deal with cut rate hacks diluting my market all day. I rely on testimonials, referrals, my portfolio to sell my company as the best choice. Bitching about hacks, jack legs , and low ballers is a waste of time, they are here and here to stay.


Too true bro, too true!!!!


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

Tinstaafl said:


> [Examines foot. Looks at it. Tastes it (too often). Nope, fine, no bullet holes.]
> 
> Uh, yeah. I hate to give away money unless she's very, very cute. And can cook. Some day I'll find her...


LMAO:clap:


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Personally, I wish they would. I hate getting calls to do additions. For me they are a PITA since I do not have small machines. I also hate bringing a tri-axle load of stone on paved driveways and I hate fixing nicely landscaped yards. Just not my cup of tea. 

If you do buy a machine, make sure you call your insurance company to tell them that you do excavating now. This way they can increase your premiums.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

I forgot to mention that our best customer is a home builder/developer. We have been working for him for 21 yrs and we do all of his site work for houses and developments. He has a mini-ex and skid steer. He uses them to dig piers for decks, downspout drains, move stone for sidewalks and has forks to move material around on the job. This is stuff that I do not have time for, nor do I care to do, but again, that is just me.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

It definatelly comes down to asking yourself what does convenience cost. We bought a bobcat new 9 years ago. Got a


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> It definatelly comes down to asking yourself what does convenience cost. We bought a bobcat new 9 years ago. Got a


Got a good deal. It only has 750 hours or so on it currently. We have forks and a bucket. We use it on our jobs for small stone moving, dirt leveling, material moving, and we have a small work platform. We also rent trenchers and post hole augers if we need and since we have the machine it is much more convenient. We do charge for the machine. We also have a large gradall forklift. It gets used alot for our new projects but not so much on a remodel. For us the ability to use when we want and not worry about delivery or rent has been worth it. We also use our bobcat to clear snow at the shop. Now I don't see us going out and buying any kind of an excavator...I like to run a small one but I am certainly not anywhere near pro grade to justify that. It just has to make sense to you and your bank account. Sorry for the quoted post..hit send accidentally on the iPad to soon.


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## wellbuilt home (Oct 22, 2007)

Vinny said:


> So here again, my question is: are you putting the number in the quote?? I mean, a machine like that should be billed at about $100.00 per hour with operator. So have you anticipated the potential hours you'll be running it on a given job and plugged that into your bid or are you just figuring you can do it for the cost of ownership of the iron just to keep a bid falsely low just to get a job????


 Ya i figure 100 bucks an hr , 80 for the skid 550 for a dumpster.

Excavation is a small piece of the pulse .
I have to look at the complete job . 
I can hire a operator with a mini EX for 450 bucks . 
IN REAL LIFE i can get 1250 a day for truck trailer EX and skid . 
1450 with a laborer this is almost twice as much as the 2 other guys charge that live on my street. 
I only drive one piece of equipment at a time . 
I don't do much digging work for customers Most of the work is contracted with a larger job . 
The truth is Ive been getting out bid buy 30/50% all year long so i could give away excavation , masonry and most of the framing and still not land a job . 
Things seemed to get real tight here the last few months . 
I'm taking the rest of the year Off . Happy New Year John


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

We built a few spec homes when times were better. We subbed out everything but site work. One builder told me he wasn't too happy with me building specs. Told him that I don't run his business so he shouldn't run mine. Also mentioned that my old man was building specs while builder was still in diapers.

He stopped using us which was fine. Never understood why we couldn't make money while he could. We weren't even building in the same town. Of course when the crap hit the fan he went belly up & we are still in business.


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## cexcavation (Apr 17, 2008)

The way I figure it, it is an open market, therefore we should all have the right to make money however we see fit. If I am truly worth my hourly rate, then any builder would be foolish to go out and buy his own equipment if he is in the business to make money. If they can own the equipment, fuel it, operate it, and maintain cheaper than having me come in and knock it out, then who can blame em. 

The only kicker for me is things like plumbing and electrical where I am not legally able to throw conduit in the ground or hook up a water service to a house, yet plumbers and electricians can hop on an excavator and legally dig around fiber optics, high pressure gas lines, etc. Of course I still huck conduit in the ditch occasionally and have been known to connect a waterline or two under the direct supervision of the homeowner!!!:laughing:

It is our God given right to use our own two hands to accomplish great things, so go out there and get it done. Much better than people sitting on their duff saying there isn't any work out there worth doing.


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

Upchuck said:


> We built a few spec homes when times were better. We subbed out everything but site work.


Contrary to what I posted Chuck, thats something I always wanted to do, but this F n business constantly kept sucking up every dime of operating capital. As our business grew in size and dollar volume, it gobbled it up as fast as it came in (still does but maybe faster now)

Then when things were so good back in 2005, 6 & 7 we were making such nice jing with just paving that taking a risk on building a house didnt make sense to me. Besides the land is still so high I just dont see how anyone makes money around here, but its too rich for my tolarence of risk. 

(Off subject) - Having something that earns income outside of this industry is something I'll want to focus on if the economy ever starts to come back. I ate pizza last night at a new restaraunt thats owned by a GC we do paving for out here. He's been pretty successful at construction but he saw this crap coming and knew he needed other income too. And theres always room for another pizza place, especialy a good one.


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

Vinny said:


> Contrary to what I posted Chuck, thats something I always wanted to do, but this F n business constantly kept sucking up every dime of operating capital. As our business grew in size and dollar volume, it gobbled it up as fast as it came in (still does but maybe faster now)
> 
> Then when things were so good back in 2005, 6 & 7 we were making such nice jing with just paving that taking a risk on building a house didnt make sense to me. Besides the land is still so high I just dont see how anyone makes money around here, but its too rich for my tolarence of risk.
> 
> (Off subject) - Having something that earns income outside of this industry is something I'll want to focus on if the economy ever starts to come back. I ate pizza last night at a new restaraunt thats owned by a GC we do paving for out here. He's been pretty successful at construction but he saw this crap coming and knew he needed other income too. And theres always room for another pizza place, especialy a good one.



Vinny

We have our hands in a few different things. We still have 2 building lots that we refuse to build on until the market improves. 

As far as something outside the industry you can always try rental property. We have 3 properties with 11 tenants. I'm in charge of collecting rents & all issues come to me. It can be frustrating but still worth it.

Our family also owns a liquor store. We have a family member that runs it. Booze, cigs, & lottery tickets seems to be recession proof. If you ever get into a cash type business (pizza shop, liquor or convience store) make sure you have someone you really trust running it. There can lots of hours to cover & opportunity for someone to pocket cash.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

can i plumb? can i wire? can i lay my own brick? probably...am i proficient at it? probably not. i don't do it everyday. those here that say they're jacks of all trades...can own/operate/generate revenue from any piece of equipment on their job site? well, you're one of the very gifted and need to be lauded....it'd be my guess that those that step out of their norm....it becomes an "it'll do" mentality...good enough...there's a sub i eliminated...ain't it purdy mentality...i could be totally wrong here, but i don't think so. when my equipment breaks down..yes...lots of times i can "fix" it...i can even weld! until the time comes when the good friend of mine that makes the perm repair goes..."who smeared that dog **** all over here? don't get me wrong...i am very aware there are those of you here that are very proficient at many different trades. typically, that's not the norm, and i get asked to come in and re mediate the short comings of the desired result. just know that when in an effort to pull some additional profits in the "easy" tasks....and need help in those over your head...you'll probably get spanked by the contractor that helps you out. just as i would expect the contractor that comes in to help me heal a home remodel that i was sure i could do on my own and make it look pretty....


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## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

I wish I could charge what you guys do for your equipment. Unfortunately every hack job contractor and landscaper around here has decided they are an "excavating contractor" but cant seem to hit the ground with the bucket. A lot of them dont have the proper insurances to be doing this kind of work either but what they do have is the lowest bid so they get the work. It really pisses me off that guys who cant keep grade for 5 feet and have half a clue can go out and charge next to nothing to do a job. These morons have managed to completely ruin the market here to where if you have a mini ex you are lucky to get $75/hr. I can barely get away with charging $55/hr for my track skid steer. I dont claim to have the knowledge that a lot of you older guys do but I know I should be able to charge a hell of a lot more for my equipment, labor and skill but because of Hack Job Inc I cant:wallbash:


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

WildWill said:


> I just want a skid steer. With lots of attachments.


Start with a skidloader big enough for the work you plan to do in the future,you can always rent specialty attachments you dont use very often.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

peteo said:


> I dont claim to have the knowledge that a lot of you older guys do but I know I should be able to charge a hell of a lot more for my equipment, labor and skill but because of Hack Job Inc I cant:wallbash:


I see this complaint constantly from guys on here, but it just doesn't hold water. We live in a free market economy, and you can charge whatever you want as long as you can find customers who think your work is worth that much. The majority of consumers aren't altogether stupid enough to hire based only upon labor rates. They simply want the most bang for their buck.

Provide quality work and you can charge quality prices. Provide hack work, and guess what? You'll only command hack prices.


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## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

I understand what you are getting at but the problem remains the same. If the majority of contractors have to lower their prices to compete with the hacks then the amount you can charge and still get the work has to be lower as well. I can charge $150/hr for my machine if I want but I'm not going to get any work at that price. I feel my bids are competitive for my market and I deliver a quality product. All I'm saying is most people look at the bottom line and think "wow what a deal" when in reality they are going ot be paying twice as much once they hire another contractor to fix what hack job inc did in the first place. I try to go with a saying an old timer told me years ago..."A reputation for quality work will beat the low bid more often than not." Unfortunately in today's market it seems to be the latter that wins out.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

You are going to see the issue with competing with the guy with a pickup truck and magnetic signs in any trade you work in.
I know what I need to make,and i do the same quality of work whether im making a lot of money on the project or just being lucky to make lunch money off of it.
When I first opened my shop people bitched about me working cheap also,but at the time I had a wife and kids to feed.
After many years in the trades I can generally get the price I want to bid jobs for,if not I figure they can call me back after somebody else screws it up for me to fix it at a higher price! :laughing:


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

peteo said:


> A reputation for quality work will beat the low bid more often than not." Unfortunately in today's market it seems to be the latter that wins out.


I agree with you. Years ago, we didn't even have to give bids. People called us because of our reputation and told us to do the job and let them know how much they owed us. Now they call and want a price so they can take the cheapest one.

I have had how many ppl tell me that they would rather use me, but they have to take the cheapest price for financial reasons. 

I had one contractor ask me to lower my prices. I said, I did, when our overhead went up. We have not raised prices in the last 4 yrs, but the price of fuel, parts, tires, insurances, etc... have gone up. 

I gave a price to a guy to clear a lot. I told him $3k. He asked me if I could do better. I said sure, $3,500. He said that isn't better, that is worse. I said, no it isn't, it is better for me. :whistling Guess what, I did the job for $3k. One thing that pisses me off is getting beat up. I explain to ppl everything that I am giving them and tell them that there are no suprises with extras and inform them that other contractors are low balling and charging extra. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Either way, I refuse to wear out our iron on somebody elses crappy budget.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

jason, ought to move where my son moved to...i'm going to send you in PM a spreadsheet on what they get there for what they do....be nice to get those #'s 
damn, can't do it...PM me your email.


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