# 50% Net



## Ayangonz (Apr 6, 2011)

OK. So, you are looking for advice from someone who can truly help you. Well, my friend today is your lucky day. This post is going to bring out the best and the worst in those that read it. Some will see my advice as advice from a sage. Others will claim I am full of it and don’t know what I am talking about. Either way, I don’t care. The message is for you and anyone else that is wanting to listen.

I will provide you with a rope. But, it will be up to you to do the hard work of pulling yourself up. No one is going to pull you up. You have to pull yourself up.

Your problem is the same problem 99% of people who call themselves “Contractors” have. You are all looking for the answer to what you perceive to be the problem and don’t realize the problem is staring you wright in the face. I have heard it all. It’s those dam inspectors, I can’t find good workers, it’s the unlicensed contractors, those dam cheap customers, there’s not enough time, I can’t collect what I am owed and so on and so on and so on it goes.

There is only one problem and its you! The way you think that is. Your mind is like a computer hard drive. Suppose you buy a new hard drive and install Microsoft Word in it. You then try to create a layout for an addition to a house. You can’t do it. You must have a cad drawing program. Or suppose you load QuickBooks in the hard drive and you want to edit a photo. Again, it can’t be done unless you load a program for photo shopping.

The good news is that hard drives just as minds can be reprogrammed. By simply removing the old data it was programed with and loading new software, you can change your ability to do what you want to do.

A long time ago, I use to teach classes to contractors looking for answers. I would always start the class with this set of questions. How many of you know how to renovate a kitchen? Everyone in the room would raise their hand. How many of you know how to build an addition? This time about 75% would raise their hands. How many of you know how to build a three-story building? This time, about 10% would raise their hands. How many of you know how to build a business? Not a single hand would go up.

99% of the people that will read this post call themselves “Contractors” when they couldn’t be further from it. A contractor does not build things, A builder does that. He does not do estimates. An estimator does that. He does not supervise jobs. Supervisors do that. He does not frame walls, paint, install cabinets, floors or do any other one of the trades in this industry.

A contractor does exactly what the name implies. He “contracts” and nothing else. The sooner you and everyone else that reads this post re-formats your brains and installs this concept as your new operating system, the sooner you will be able to being on your way to success in this industry.

A contractor deals with contracts. He writes them, he reads them, he modifies them, and he enforces them.

At about this time is when some people reading this post will start to have their heads explode and can’t type fast enough to try and claim I am full of it. But I am not writing this for them, I am writing this for those of you with that deer in the headlights look right know that are experiencing an ah ha moment.

If you love to build things, great! Find someone like me, work for them and they will give you all the building work you can handle to your life’s delight. If you love framing, great! Go find a job working for a framing contractor. If you love painting, same thing. There are painting companies out there that will give you all the painting you want.

But, if your end game is to make money, you will ever do that unless you become a businessman and if you don’t want to be a business man then stop right here right now and go back and read my prior paragraphs again until you understand them.

If you are not making at least a 60% gross profit and at least a 40% to 50% net profit on your projects on average per year and by projects, I mean anything from a $ 100.00 to over a million-dollar job, you are better off working for someone else. In other words, if you are doing $ 200,000.00 in work and don’t make at least $ 100,000.00 profit from that work, you are doing something wrong.
OK, so by now, some of you are yelling at your monitors claiming I am full of it again. Well, my friends, you need to reformat your minds and install the correct software.

Let’s start reprogramming that mind, shall we? I sometimes get asked by young startups, “Ayan, where would be the best place for me to invest $ 1,000.00 in my business to get the most return for my money?” I always have the same answer. “Invest it in yourself, not your business.”

What if I showed you how to invest not $ 1,000.00 but less than $ 10.00 dollars in something that could start the reformation of your brain to become successful? Would you do it. Here is where some of you will say to yourselves “See, I knew it. He is setting us up to sell us something!” But you would be wrong. I don’t need anyone’s money trust me. I am offering this information because I feel like it. I feel like it because I was always taught that you should always give back and that is what I am trying to do to anyone that is willing to listen.

I learned something a long time ago that I have been carrying with me for decades and that is that “When the student is ready, the teacher will come.”

For those of you who do not have $ 10.00 you can get it on YouTube as a video reader or on PDF for free on the net. Just simply type the name “The Richest Man in Babylon” written by George S, Clason. I recommend though you get it in paperback along with a highlighter. This book is to me personally what the bible is to a Christian. It is the holy grail on how to think and that to do if you want to become financially independent in any profession. As you read the book, take your highlighter and underline every sentence that is making an important point until you finish it. Then put it away and commit yourself to reading the highlighted sentences at least once a month for the next year or until you understand and believe in your heart the concepts every sentence you highlighted is teaching you.

After you read the book, then you can ask me a question.

Most people on these posts are full of crap. Some post asking for help and all they get is sarcastic bull****.

If you want to learn from someone that is going to teach you something for real, I will make you this offer. I am willing to teach you and anyone else that is interested personally via Zoom as a group chat sometime in late January 2022. The meeting will be for approximately two to three hours. I will start the meeting with about an hour-long class and answer questions for another hour. I will not allow anyone to interrupt the class. Questions will be accepted via my email before the class, and I will answer as many, as quickly and honestly as I can. If I find the class was helpful, I will schedule another one.

No. I will not be selling anything. I am doing this because I am willing to give back and no other reason. My email address is [email protected]. Anyone that wants to join the meeting and or would like to submit a question for consideration can email me and I will send a group invitation to those that want to join said meeting. 

My time is valuable to me so understand that if anyone responds to this post or sends me questions via email, I will only answer them if and when I make the time as I am doing this out of my own free will and not charging for my time.

No, I am not offering personal consultations for a fee. If I find the meeting was helpful I will consider hosting a group session once a month and invite participants that are there to listen and learn. Anyone that is there to disparage of attach will be cut out immediately. I am not going to waste my time with anyone there for the wrong reasons. My time is limited by choice. Not because I have too much work, but because I am having fun doing what I want to do not what I have to do.

I don’t care if we have one person at the meeting or one hundred and if I do not hear from anyone then I will not host the meeting. Only serous people that are looking for answers will be invited.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

^^^^^

A generous offer from a member who has been here 10 years.


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## Half-fast Eddie (Aug 21, 2020)

Mordekyle said:


> ^^^^^
> 
> A generous offer from a member who has been here 10 years.


5 posts in 10 years and he’s asking people to send money? Doesn’t sound generous to me.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Half-fast Eddie said:


> 5 posts in 10 years and he’s asking people to send money? Doesn’t sound generous to me.


Read his post again. He’s not asking for money.

He is saying that for less than $10 you can access a book which he deems essential.

I spend $10 on lunch most days.
If $10 is too much to gamble, you don’t charge enough.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

You can even find a free PDF version of the book online.

Interesting read so far.

Nothing wrong with sharing information you deem helpful, which is what he is doing.

Same as sharing LOMP info, but his approach to money making seems more conceptual/global.

Believe it or not, some people are not so stingy with their time or scared of “competition” that they will help others to succeed.


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## CarpenterRN (Dec 3, 2009)

https://www.thediamondsmine.com/files/Ebooks/Clason-RichestManInBabylon.pdf


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Well there you go OP, all you gotta do is reload new software into your brain, and you _can _sit on your ass and make money!!

Guess I was wrong.

And 50% NET profit in construction? What an idiot I’ve been!


Sounds like what you actually need to do to make money off that two man crew, is hire an estimator, and a supervisor, and you just write the contracts. 👍

Then sit back and watch the money flow in.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Richest man in Babylon is a good book, but very elementary. My 12 year old read it two years ago. If someone wants a copy I'll send her copy, I'll get the little one another. My treat

For anyone who does find themselves struggling with the basics of business I think a better elementary book for principles is The Go Giver - the 12 year old has read that too but 90 % of professionals I meet need to read and apply it instead of living in a scarcity mindset

As to the rest - I can build a three story house, have one going (pics on the pics thread) , with bags on or from my truck, and I manage three superintendents with my partner whose the operations manager.

I can build a business (proofs in the pufding, 350k in completed construction first year, 14 years ago and, well over 6 million now) and I make more than any construction manager I have ever heard of in my life - unlike some others the evidence of all the above is all over this site - and I am a builder above all. I'm also a pretty damn good businessman and I write, edit, execute and enforce all my contracts from a 2k sq ft office we built that is nicer than any other builders in this area I have seen, still have to leave my muddy boots on the porch most days. I'll just schlep on through and hope I make enough to buy some beans and bacon I guess lol


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## Thom Paine (Nov 21, 2021)

Mordekyle said:


> You can even find a free PDF version of the book online.
> 
> Interesting read so far.
> 
> ...


I first read that book more than 50 years ago; again about 10 years later. 

It inspired much of my business attitudes and learning. 

Thinking.... He reminded me, It's time to read it again.

The gentleman did make a generous offer. A long as I've been in business, there is always something to learn or to recall past successful actions that somehow slipped away...

All of us need an intellectual or attitudinal 'tune-up' occasionally; 
His offer may be a time for it.

great day atcha' M


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## Gene Murray (Jul 21, 2021)

Ianthebesta said:


> Hello!
> 
> So I recently made a switch from a remodeling general contractor to a flooring installation business. The main reason I did this was to be able to remove myself from the tools easier and really niche down to focus on growing the business and being an investor more than a contractor. With this new switch, I had a lot to learn, and to be honest, I'm not much of a flooring installer myself so the first thing on my list was to hire two employees with experience. I want to mention I am based in Ontario Canada FYI. I was able to grab up two employees for $28-30.00 an hour with 4+ years of floor installation experience. Both of these guys are amazing! They know what they're doing, follow the standards I've set within the business, and best of all have the growth and goals of my business in their best interest!
> 
> ...


Ian. Spending 5k a month for advertising is lunacy. My advice is to start doing the installs yourself with one helper. Jack your bids up and forget about all these discounts. It takes time to build any kind of business up. You’re spending way more than your taking in with your current plan. Lastly there is the ups and downs when you are self employed. Good luck. Gene


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Jaws said:


> Richest man in Babylon is a good book, but very elementary. My 12 year old read it two years ago. If someone wants a copy I'll send her copy, I'll get the little one another. My treat
> 
> For anyone who does find themselves struggling with the basics of business I think a better elementary book for principles is The Go Giver - the 12 year old has read that too but 90 % of professionals I meet need to read and apply it instead of living in a scarcity mindset
> 
> ...


Yeah, but can you skin a buck and run a trot line?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Mordekyle said:


> Yeah, but can you skin a buck and run a trot line?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



From several hundred yards and I'll cook it for you too hoss lol

We can go backstrap marinated 5 days in sweet red wine (the really cheap stuff they sell by the gallon) with garlic (lots), salt, chili powder and a touch of smoked paprika. Red end of 'medium rare'. Served with a reduction of veggie broth, port wine, and home-made black-currant jelly. Baked potato. Braised Brussels Sprouts or Asparagus

Or I'll double batter and chicken fry it and serve it with gravy and potatoes 👍

What I can't do is build a million dollar house (which is my game) with all my overhead, supervision, etc... built into that million in costs and tack 400k to 600k "net profit" onto the job.

In fact in all the conferences and Remodelers groups and builder roundtables I have never heard of any builder or remodlerer "netting" 40-60% , even 1 year, much less year over year. Not one article by famous contractors, not one book, even the Bible Mark up and Profit does anyone net 40-60%. Ever. Once. Lol

But that's what the guy said -

" If you are not making at least a 60% gross profit and at least a 40% to 50% net profit on your projects on average per year and by projects, I mean anything from a $ 100.00 to over a million-dollar job, you are better off working for someone else. In other words, if you are doing $ 200,000.00 in work and don’t make at least $ 100,000.00 profit from that work, you are doing something wrong"

I sure hope some young contractors aren't reading this joker and thinking they should be making 1mm off of 2mm in revenue. Or else maybe the entire industry should be paying this guy to teach a class on "reprogramming their minds" -


"OK, so by now, some of you are yelling at your monitors claiming I am full of it again. Well, my friends, you need to reformat your minds and install the correct software."

For reference a pretty legit source on net profit benchmark for builders -

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECAQQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0DGCWmt5RsxYc1LKTaygqK[/URL]


Or maybe the guy doesn't have the correct nomenclature and meant (gross profit), not to be confused with (gross margins) and certainly not (net profit)

Another reference for remodelers from Michael Stone Mark Up and Profit is 50 - 65% mark ups (33.3 to 39.39% margin, also not to be confused with net profit) for remodlers to earn a net profit of 8% with an 8% salary. Which would be 320k off of 2mm


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Jaws said:


> For reference a pretty legit source on net profit benchmark for builders -


You have a bad link there, goes nowhere. Looks like you made an error when posting it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Try this. Office sent link 









5 KPIs Every Builder Should Know


There are five key numbers, or key performance indicators (KPIs), in a residential building company's financials that builders should be aware of on a quarterly basis.



nahbnow.com


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Jaws said:


> Try this. Office sent link
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

KAP said:


> Huh... says 5, but only lists 4...
> 
> *Revenue
> Gross Profit Margin
> ...



I didn't write it lol. As I said the bench mark "The benchmark for custom home builders is 25% margin, which is a 33.3% markup" - I personally find those margins to be consistent with the top 10% of builders I've met at conferences and roundtables over the years from around the country. 

Remodelers Advantage, Victoria Downings group, is a great investment as well. It's about 6k or was, plus 2 conferences at a few grand a year but the knowledge in those rooms is unprecedented

I couldn't make it work but Tim Fallers Lead Carpenter system is part of thst group, and he trains Production Managers. 

None of those places will discuss 50% net profit per annum though


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## Ayangonz (Apr 6, 2011)

Jaws said:


> From several hundred yards and I'll cook it for you too hoss lol
> 
> We can go backstrap marinated 5 days in sweet red wine (the really cheap stuff they sell by the gallon) with garlic (lots), salt, chili powder and a touch of smoked paprika. Red end of 'medium rare'. Served with a reduction of veggie broth, port wine, and home-made black-currant jelly. Baked potato. Braised Brussels Sprouts or Asparagus
> 
> ...


What an amazing thing it is for me to witness the confirmation of the lack of wisdom there is out there. I have been a member of this forum for ten years now. When I became a member, I thought I would find likeminded people that were interested in giving of their time and helping others. I almost started to post ten years ago when I decided to hold back and read the forum for a while, a long while. Over the past ten years I would occasionally return to this forum to see if anything had change. It had not.

Ten years later. I have decided it was time. I figure out of the tens of thousands of members, there might be some (though very few) that are looking for some wisdom that they could actually learn from, apply and eventually help them achieve their goals in life whatever they may be.

I am about to make some more statements that are going to blow the minds of some people in this forum. But before I do, I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not making these statement to boast, impress or get followers. I want to make it perfectly clear that I am making them because I feel like it. Because I want to give back. I am here of my own free will and will continue to post for anyone that is wanting help until I decide I feel I am not helping anyone or get tired of the ignorance I am confronted with. I am doing it for my own personal gratification to satisfy my lifelong love of teaching and helping others succeed. If I feel that I am not helping anyone here, I will simply move on.

To make it perfectly clear, I am not marketing, selling or setting anyone up for some website you can go to and pay a fee and find all the answers. I am simply here to provide wisdom to those that are searching for it from someone that has figured this game out and like Robert Kiyosaki says, has gotten out of the rat race.

So, with all that being said, here goes. Hold on to your hats!

I do not bid work. In fact, the last bid I ever created was 23 years ago. I have all the work I could ever want to have when I choose to have it. I turn down way more work than I sign. I only do jobs that make me at least 50% profit or at least $ 1,000.00 an hour. Sometimes I make as much as 90% profit or well over $ 1,000.00 an hour. A few times, I have made as much as seven figures on a project. Each of which took me just six months to complete. However, that’s not to say that I will not do jobs for less or even free as I often have done out of personal choice.

Let me make it perfectly clear, I am not making these statements to impress anyone. I couldn’t care less what anyone thinks of these statements or me. I am making these statements because they are true and will show some of you that it is possible through hard work and dedication for some people (not all) to make it in this or any other industry. 

Some things you just can't find in a seminar. The answers to your success will only be found in one place and one place alone. That place is between your ears. It took me over four decades of sweat and tears searching for this knowledge and to this day I am still searching and learning. 

For those of you that are going to post how full of it I am, have at it. Throw everything you have at me. I am a big boy and know ignorance when I read it.

Every time someone posts claims that what I am stating is impossible I laugh along with those few of you out there that know what I am writing is possible in this industry and have been quietly giggling to yourself as you enjoy your fortunes which you deserve for the blood seat and tears you have sacrificed to achieve them. It’s amazing to me that I have posted what I did days ago, and no one has bothered to post a single question to me on how to achieve those levels of profit? A few people posted some comments, but most have just posted how ridicules they think my stated profit margins of at least 50% a year are.

Those of you who believe you cannot make those kinds of profits in this industry, would be right!

Those of you who believe you can make those kinds of profits in this industry would also be right!

"YOU" may not be able to achieve those profits, but I have and so have others!

Ignorance is bliss! If you do not believe you can make great amounts of money in this industry, what the hell are you doing wasting your time reading this forum and posting comments about something you know absolutely nothing about? Stop wasting your time and read no more from this idiot that is making crazy ridiculous claims.

How about this for a thought experiment? Instead of posting claims that I am a scammer or full of it, why don’t you get yourself a nice cold one and take a great big giant humble pill and consider that maybe, just maybe there are people out there that are willing to throw you a rope for the first time I your life and teach you something you obviously do not know anything about which is making real money in the construction industry?

Go somewhere else to find your fortune and leave this site for those that are here to learn from those that can help them learn how to not only support their families but generations of their families to come? Stop posting snarly remarks trying to be the comedian in the room and wasting print space to try and discourage those that are here searching honestly and humbly for guidance in there life what they have not been able to find in their schools, government or people around them.

OK, I have said my piece and what I wanted to get off my chest.

I am going to start a forum where I am going to share some of the wisdom I have learned over the years. I will call it "Wisdom from Arkad." For those of you who do not know who Arkad is yet because you have not bothered to take my advice from my original post, Arkad is the name of the richest man in Babylon which is the main caricature in the book by the same name. In it, I will post stories and information that will help teach and mentor those that are looking to make it in this industry not those that are here to criticize and think this forum is a comedy room where they can try out their new unfunny material.

I do not have all the answers. You will not find everything you need to know in a single post. I do have the answers of how I made it out of the rat race in this industry and I hope that the information I provide you will help you achieve success as you define it for yourself.

I will start the forum “Wisdom From Arkad” as soon as I have the opportunity to write my first post. I invite all that are wanting to give of their time and throw ropes to those below them to grab. As you will always see me write, I am willing to throw you a rope, but you and only you will be able to pull yourself up. Neither I, the school system, the government, nor any yellow or white haired man is going to pull you up from where you are now. Only those that have developed the callus's, the strength and the fortitude to never give up and never stop learning will be able to make it to a place where you too will be able to throw a rope to those willing to do what needs to be done to make it.

We are in tempestuous times and things will unfortunately get much worse before they get better but hang in there. Here is a fact to take to heart. More millionaires were created in 1929 during and after the great depression than in any other time in history up to that point. The same will happen this time. 

Today, the 31st of January, 2022, I wish you and yours a Happy New Year!

Regards,

Ayan Gonzalez


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Ayangonz said:


> What an amazing thing it is for me to witness the confirmation of the lack of wisdom there is out there. I have been a member of this forum for ten years now. When I became a member, I thought I would find likeminded people that were interested in giving of their time and helping others. I almost started to post ten years ago when I decided to hold back and read the forum for a while, a long while. Over the past ten years I would occasionally return to this forum to see if anything had change. It had not.
> 
> Ten years later. I have decided it was time. I figure out of the tens of thousands of members, there might be some (though very few) that are looking for some wisdom that they could actually learn from, apply and eventually help them achieve their goals in life whatever they may be.
> 
> ...


Yeah - I'll go back to what you said - "if you aren't making at least 60% gross profit and 50% net profit per year and by projects, you are better off getting a job"

1) on a personal note as a home builder/remodler I'd love to know how you only spend approximately 16% of your gross profit on overhead and are able to keep 84% as net profit. That *is *impressive

2) a big piece of your advice is terrible and that's why I said it's a joke. If I took your advice 14 years ago it would litterally cost me millions of dollars over my career, my family wouldn't live as well as they do now, quality of my kids lives and educations would vastly different. I'm just noting that I hope some young contractor doesn't read thst non sense and toss in his bag and get a job

Lots of contractors are multi multi millionaires that don't make anywhere near 50% "net profit". I don't know any construction hands or managers (zero) who are multi millionaires - you don't create wealth as a construction manager. So like I said, that's a joke.

If you are offended by that thats a problem for you to examine for yourself- statistics are on my side as far as people not needing to give up their successful companies paying them well and allowing them to invest wisely because they don't make Ayan Gonzalez's measure of success. It's extremely arrogant to state some of these new guys should set your measure of success as their only goal or get a job- in 11 years on here I've never said anything remotely close to that.

I love that you want to help people, lots of successful contractors toss ropes to guys who need them and it's necessary for the industries success - I had a number of good builders give me advice and drop some nice projects on me early on they wouldn't touch with a ten ft pole that were great projects for me at that time.

I truly hope some guys take your course and make 50% net profit and I wish you well in your forum endeavors- but I'll call it out any time I see BS - while I'm not suggesting *you* aren't making 50% net I'm 100% suggesting you can be very successful not making 50% net.

I like a lot of what you said - and appreciate it. Saying everyone this forum should go get a job isn't one of them 

So sincerely congratulations on your enormous success- and I wish you luck and good fortune continuing thar successes and passing it on to others.

I dont have any questions for you on your methods but I appreciate that your willing to share them 👍


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## Thom Paine (Nov 21, 2021)

Thank you sir. 
I've been in business over 50 years; I'm not done, and still learning every day.

Be certain in knowing, I appreciate your efforts to share your life learning with others.

Let the good times roll.

Happy and prosperous new year to you.

Thom


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> I don't know any construction hands or managers (zero) who are multi millionaires - you don't create wealth as a construction manager. So like I said, that's a joke.


ANYONE can retire a multi-millionaire... the key is starting early, being consistent, and dedicating that money for that reason, whether they are a construction manager, hand or whatever...

If you start at 20, and want to invest/retire at 60 as an example, all you need is $325/month ($75/week based on 52 weeks) and an average ROI of 8%... if you wanted to retire at 65, it's only $200/month... and that assumes in both cases your savings amount never goes up as you advance in your career or get a better ROI... the longer you wait, the higher the monthly investment and/or ROI will need to be to achieve the same results as if you started early... people literally WASTE that amount of money every month...

MOST people have never experienced this reality, so because they haven't, they can't envision it as a possibility as they generally round within their own peer group... but it took someone outside of the mindset to even realize it before it was promoted, so just because someone outside of that peer group may have better results doesn't make it a joke, it makes it something you simply haven't achieved yet that someone else has... I'm thinking your 27 year old self couldn't clearly envision (beyond hope) the achievements you are currently experiencing...

Proof's in the pudding... if *Ayangonz *has the goods, it'll be obvious by what he shares on his site that he eventually starts (URL is currently available BTW Ayangonz), but just saying it's a joke because you haven't experienced it or found a way to get there is well...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

KAP said:


> ANYONE can retire a multi-millionaire... the key is starting early, being consistent, and dedicating that money for that reason, whether they are a construction manager, hand or whatever...
> 
> If you start at 20, and want to invest/retire at 60 as an example, all you need is $325/month ($75/week based on 52 weeks) and an average ROI of 8%... if you wanted to retire at 65, it's only $200/month... and that assumes in both cases your savings amount never goes up as you advance in your career or get a better ROI... the longer you wait, the higher the monthly investment and/or ROI will need to be to achieve the same results as if you started early... people literally WASTE that amount of money every month...
> 
> ...



That's true - nomenclature but I am not talking about your 401k at 60 years old. 

The last part - I didn't say his experience of 50% was a joke - I love it, I said clearly him saying the rest the world not doing that but achieving major success should go get jobs is a joke, and it is


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## Ayangonz (Apr 6, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Yeah - I'll go back to what you said - "if you aren't making at least 60% gross profit and 50% net profit per year and by projects, you are better off getting a job"
> 
> 1) on a personal note as a home builder/remodler I'd love to know how you only spend approximately 16% of your gross profit on overhead and are able to keep 84% as net profit. That *is *impressive
> 
> ...


Mr. “Jaws” man, sir.

I didn’t post here to try and take over your holiness’s thrown which you seem to fear someone might do some day. I, like you, am not hiding behind some emoji with such a scarry, menacing name such as “Jaws”.

My name is Ayan Gonzalez as you so pompously posted on your reply. For the record, I put my real name out there not a false meme (I.E. Jaws) as I have nothing to hide.

Not only is my name in print here but anyone that wants to see what I look like, can type my name in linkedin.com where they will see not only my real name, but my photo and the name of my company as well as the list of every one of my eighteen licenses and certifications including certification numbers which anyone is free to publicly verify with my local licensing board here in the wonderful state of Florida.

I encourage you sir should you find the time step down from your high and mighty horse and do the same before you try and disparage me.

You are the poster child for a pompous arrogant angry man that spends his days laughing at his own posts while trying to put down people that are here for the right reasons which is to share their knowledge and experience to help other.

So, I am putting my name and reputation out there and calling you out to do the same, our shut your trap, unless you have something constructive to add to my posts in the future. You may be able to intimidate others on this site that don’t see right through you sir, but I for one, am not impressed by your brilliance.

And for the record, anyone else out there in contractor talk land that thinks I’m full of crap, I challenge you to also put your real name, photo, and CV next to mine or shut up and maybe learn something from someone that is here to help others.

Just because you are unable to conceive the possibility that there is someone out there that actually knows something more than you and has been more successful than you and put it out there in print, doesn’t mean it’s not possible.

Yes 84% profit is impressive. That *is* why I posted it.

You are where you are today because you didn’t take my advice 14 years ago. Good for you. I don’t recall every giving you any advice. Nor do I ever recall ever claiming that my advice with the only advice sir. In fact, the only advice I have given thus far is recommending a book that has been around for over 100 years and is referred to others by countless successful people before me.

I never claimed there were no millionaire contractors. But let me ask you this sir, how many decamillionaire contractors do you personally know and how many of them are offering advice here along your Holinesses side. Nor have I ever claimed to be a construction manager. Nor have I claimed anyone should measure themselves against my level of success though I think you should so you maybe step down a few notches.

I also am not offering any course as you so falsely insinuated to try and discredit my sincere offer to help others for free here. If anyone needs to call out BS its me on you sir. 

You owe me an apology sir for your pompous rudeness and if you don’t post one here, you will only be showing this community your true colors which I am sure others have recognized already by now.

So shut up or put up.

Stop being so pompous, listen for once and maybe you will learn something over the next several years from me and other on this forum.

I invite you to add useful content and stop your arrogance.

Ayan Gonzalez


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Ayangonz said:


> Mr. “Jaws” man, sir.
> 
> I didn’t post here to try and take over your holiness’s thrown which you seem to fear someone might do some day. I, like you, am not hiding behind some emoji with such a scarry, menacing name such as “Jaws”.
> 
> ...



Yeah bud everyone knows my name is John Winsborough, my projects and company office, home, kids etc... are *all* over this forum.

I'm being pompous yet you state if everyone isn't making 50% they need to go work for someone else like you lol. I've never stated anything of the kind

That was a real long post thst still didn't change the fact of what I said or you said previously

Anyways, have a nice New Yew Years and keep up the good stuff, back off your way or the highway would be my suggestion , you come off as a dick - I've also never hidden being a dick or pretending to care if people are offended by me calling what I consider BS, BS.

You say I don't want people to know more than me and come off as holier holier thou- please go find a post where I said my way is the only way and *I *know or even believe my way is better than someone else's- or thst your not more successful than me or others - you arent going to find it

But that's what you contend to say with your post - you think so highly of it thst if someone disagrees with you about it you become (offended) not to mention your six posts deep declaring me to put up or shut up? Like isl said dozens and dozens of my pictures projects company etc.... all over this site - you posted a pic and your name so I'd let thst one go.... 

BTW the Graduate Master Builder courses are full of wealthy contractors who've built and sold businesses- several from right here where I'm at. I'm not going to name them in this train wreck of a thread but I'd be happy to name some if someone wants to PM


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## Ayangonz (Apr 6, 2011)

Kowboy said:


> Ayan:
> 
> I'm not sure guys here are going to want to take business advice from a guy who has homeowners pull their own roofing permits. In this BBB complaint, you admit this is writing:
> 
> ...


So you think you got me? 

Sorry, but you would be mistaken. Thank you though for bringing this to the table so that it offers a teaching opportunity to others.

First let me clarify for you that I am very well aware of the regulations in Florida since I use to teach them for years on behalf of the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulations as a continuing education instructor for the state. I personally have certified thousand of contractors, architects, inspectors and engineers over the years.

At first glance you would think I had broken the law, but you would be mistaken. Had I installed the roof without a permit, I would have been but that is not what happened.

In Florida, following a hurricane, the governor signs an executive order allowing General Contractors to pull roofing permits to help with the overwhelming amount of roofs that need to be replaced. The order usually expires after a year or so.

When I signed them up, they had received around $ 6,000.00 from their insurance company. They had around $ 56,000.00 in damages. I took the $ 6,000.00 as a deposit and installed a tarp ($ 1,500.00). I then submitted my supplement to the carrier. Over the next year, the carrier stalled and stalled. During that time, I had to replace the tarp three more times do to the weather. I also replaced the drywall in their sons room twice as we waited on the carrier to pay them so I could do the repairs.

The carrier came back a year and four tarps later, with an offer of around $ 28,000.00 if I remember correctly. I met with them and told them I could not get the carrier to budge more than that. I advised them to consult with a very good attorney that I knew that could help them with the carrier.

I explained to them that we had enough money to do the roof but not to replace the chimney stack which needed to be replaced when the roof was installed. They said they did not have the money for the stack at that time and agreed to wait until the attorney I recommended got them the rest of the money. I explained to them that if the stack was not replaced when the roof was replaced, it would eventually leak but we could address it when the carrier was forced to pay by the attorney.

When I went to pull the roof permit, I realized it was more than a year since the governor’s declaration allowing contractor to pull roof permits so it had to be pulled by a roofer. I then reached out to my three go to roofing contractors from around the state. All of them told me they were backed up at least six months. So, I met with the owners to let them know we were on a waiting list. About a month later, i got a call from the owners. They said the could not wait any longer. The husband had PTSD and begged me to put the roof on so as to help him with his anxiety attacks. So, I went to the building department and spoke to the chief building official to try and see if he would be able to help me. He advised I have the owners pull the roofing permit if they could not wait which is what I did.

The permit was pulled and I installed the roof with my crew. I met the inspector on the roof and explained the situation with the chimney stack and we agreed it would be replaced when the owners got the rest of the money from the carrier.

A few months later, I got another call from the owners to tell me the stack was leaking which I told them would happen. They wanted me to come back and replace it. I explained that the cost to do that was around $ 6,000.00 as it was not just a matter of replacing the stack but we also had to replace the damage inside the house around the stack at the chimney. I told them the best I could do was to patch the stack again at the roof line until the rest of the money from the carrier came through. 

That is when they told me they had decided to not hire my attorney. They said they were too stressed out. I told them they were making a huge mistake. I explained the carrier underpaid the damages by more than fifty percent and the attorney would fix that for them. They insisted they did not want to deal with it any longer. They then showed me an estimate from a handyman for around $ 700.00 to replace the stack. I explained to them how the work that needed to be done was $ 6,000.00. The explained how permitting alone would cost them half that amount.

That’s when they asked me to reimburse them $ 700.00 to replace the stack. I told them that was not going to happen. I reminded them how I told them it was going to leak and we would address it when we received the moneys to repair from the carrier. There was no way they could expect me to give them $ 700.00 for something I was not paid to do. But I was more than happy to patch the area again and wait on the attorney.

So, when they confirmed to me that they were not going to hire the attorney, I told them I could not do any thing else for them. they filed a complaint with the BBB. I responded and that was that.

In this business, sometimes customers see and here what they want to.

Therefore, for to you claim that I did work without a license is incorrect. 

I not only did the work legally under my license, but I notified the building official before I did the work and met him on the roof for the inspection. The only reason I had the owners pull the permit was because the owners were not willing to wait until my roofing subcontractor was available to do the job. Also worth noting is that I gave them a refund which they admitted to in the complaint for what the roofer would have charged me to pull the permit.

Good try though. Keep looking. If you find anything else, let me know so we can take advantage and have another teachable moment on the forum.

By the way, I see that you are located in Sarasota. I was based out of Bradenton back in 2014 for a few years. I’m based in central Florida now. Lake Wales to be exact. Feel free to reach out to me if you ever what to have a sit down and share war wounds.

Regards,

Ayan Gonzalez


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

I should have put the qualifier "apparently" between "were" and "contracting". I regret the omission.


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

Ayangonz said:


> What an amazing thing it is for me to witness the confirmation of the lack of wisdom there is out there. I have been a member of this forum for ten years now. When I became a member, I thought I would find likeminded people that were interested in giving of their time and helping others. I almost started to post ten years ago when I decided to hold back and read the forum for a while, a long while. Over the past ten years I would occasionally return to this forum to see if anything had change. It had not.
> 
> Ten years later. I have decided it was time. I figure out of the tens of thousands of members, there might be some (though very few) that are looking for some wisdom that they could actually learn from, apply and eventually help them achieve their goals in life whatever they may be.
> 
> ...


Nigerian scammers pull down the same margins, doesn't mean I want to be in that business.

Construction is fundamentally labor. We build things with our hands, and all the things we build take X amount of hours to complete. The materials we use are for the most part common, and the cost of those materials don't vary all that dramatically from state to state. If you're pulling a 50 to 90% margin on your projects you're one hell of a salesmen, or your clients are extremely rich and simply don't care about the cost.

I work primarily in an upper end market, with clients that pay upper end prices. But I still have to be competitive. My clients and the architects they employ aren't stupid, if I walk in with a huge number they'll go shopping. There is competition, there are other competent contractors willing to take the project at a 20% margin. I've never been able to convince anyone that I'm worth an extra 30%.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Let's squash this and take it to another thread, fellas. Didn't intend to start a train wreck, was just saying rest of the folks in the thread don't need a job lol

Ayan, we got off on the wrong foot but I appreciate your willingness to share information and lend a hand. I hope you'll start a thread of your own and I'll keep it civil if anyone gets out of hand- I wouldnt expect whole hearted acceptance from everyone, but I won't pollute your thread


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## Ayangonz (Apr 6, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Let's squash this and take it to another thread, fellas. Didn't intend to start a train wreck, was just saying rest of the folks in the thread don't need a job lol
> 
> Ayan, we got off on the wrong foot but I appreciate your willingness to share information and lend a hand. I hope you'll start a thread of your own and I'll keep it civil if anyone gets out of hand- I wouldnt expect whole hearted acceptance from everyone, but I won't pollute your thread


Thank you Jaws.

I will take that as the apology I asked you for. You have shown me you are not the Ahole I thought you were.

I will take it to another thread. Which one do you recommend?

And for all you doubter's, come along and join us. Stop being so syndical. You know nothing about me. The more you attack me, the more time you are taking me away from teaching you something as I have to respond to prove the attacks are false. 

Read my CV on Linkedin.com just type my name. Verify my credentials as some of you already have. I do really exist. I know I am making bold statements. I make them because they are true and I can show you how. No fee no catch. 

Stop attacking and start listening. You haven't heard what I have to teach you yet. 

I am going to give you the red pill and take you out of the low income matrix you have been living in all your lives. All you will have to do is learn and work your asses off at first. I will teach you how to work less hours, help more people including customers and employees and support your families. I am going to reprogram the way you think with new software that will change your lives for the better. 

I give you my word (though no one here gives it any credit know since know one knows me) that if you sit back and listen instead of trying to find any fault you can, you will be able to double your personal income legally in just a few years. 

Or, you can just come to the new thread and learn what I have to teach. Stop attaching me so I can spend my free time creating the content I am working on. Or, just go away.

Ayan Gonzalez


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Ayangonz said:


> I will take it to another thread. Which one do you recommend?


Why don’t you start one?

“The Richest Man in Babylon”

Or

“Fireside Chat with Arkad”

Or

“How to Make Money and Influence Your Future”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

@Ayangonz…so many words with such little substance.

I went camping for a few days and y’all got bamboozled. A dozen posts that promise to make OUR lives better and not a bit of how to do it. Selling a vision without a method. Seriously, not ONE single bit of actionable advice.

I’m not a hot shot builder with an alpha complex the size of Texas. (@Jaws) But, I do know bull chit when I read it. The loudest mouth usually is the first to fall. Jaws has chronicled his success and his failures for all to see and judge for oneself. That’s respectable. Personally attacking him helps advance your agenda of spreading your secret knowledge how? If we question you then we must be attacked to undermine our credibility???

Thank you for letting us know up front that you will continue posting until you get tired of posting (sharing your knowledge) or until you get tired of the over whelming ignorance that pollutes this forum. That was a very polite way of saying you think we’re all retards and you know better.

In the 10 years you’ve been a member of this forum can you direct me to a thread where you offered advice to someone and they came back a year or two or three or four years later and thank you because of the advice you gave which improved their business or their life?

Glad you joined the forum long ago, don’t mean much. Where were you when Jaws broke out on his own? Where was this great advice when I moved my business across the country? Could have used you then MR. know it all.

A shame we all had to work our way to upper middle class while saving every spare penny
earned. We could have read this book and learned how to make better margins than the fastest growing construction companies in the country.


The best men I know don’t tear others down. The hotshot builders I know don’t brag about their LinkedIn. You may be hot chit in your own mind and you may have a thing or two to teach someone but so far you’re all braggadocio and no advice. You’re making up for lost time with these long winded posts I guess. So far I’ve learned squat.


I want to help you become a man of your word. I’ll promise I will send you a round trip ticket to Texas if you promise to say that chit to Jaws face and let me watch. You know, so we can ALL learn something.

You ever consider we could teach you something?


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

Ayangonz said:


> Be patient my young Padawan.
> 
> Something may you learn here.
> 
> ...


This is what WBailey was talking about. We get it, you believe yourself to be smarter than us, leading to your phenomenal success. 
You've given us the setup twice, it's time for the pitch and the close. What's the program, and what's the payment structure?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

WBailey1041 said:


> Damn Hoss, not like you to lay down. Damned baby’s neck


Hey hoss I just want the gentleman to feel comfortable starting his own threads - I am a mod after all and I'm trying to get you out of that POS 10 speed trannie into a Hogh Country son. We just need to read that new thread an we all be netting 50% and lighting our cigars with hundos and wearing chinchilla coats and sunglasses inside 😆 

This thread isn't the place for this - I'm going to move this to its own thread 

@Ayangonz if you go to the Business section this will be listed as 50% Net, if you want to change that name let me know. This thread is for a flooring installer that is actively seeking help for his install business. 
.I also encourage you to start a Fireside with Ayan thread in the Business section. There is a bar at top that says Start a Conversation where you can do that..


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Following....


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

Jaws said:


> Hey hoss I just want the gentleman to feel comfortable starting his own threads - I am a mod after all and I'm trying to get you out of that POS 10 speed trannie into a Hogh Country son. We just need to read that new thread an we all be netting 50% and lighting our cigars with hundos and wearing chinchilla coats and sunglasses inside 😆
> 
> This thread isn't the place for this - I'm going to move this to its own thread
> 
> ...


Ok…. Ur right….someone has to run the circus…you win. Lol.

I’ve been meaning to update my CV on LinkedIn anyway. Oh, and I gotta wrestle the mayor in the ocean, he is as fast and cunning now as he was in his youth.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

WBailey1041 said:


> Ok…. Ur right….someone has to run the circus…you win. Lol.
> 
> I’ve been meaning to update my CV on LinkedIn anyway. Oh, and I gotta wrestle the mayor in the ocean, he is as fast and cunning now as he was in his youth.


Too bad that mayor got a snowflake. The mayor woulda learned a real lesson if that attempt was on a nail banger from Centex.

Dude bstter be a beast or he woulda learned something about the jungle a long way from 3k suits


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Ayangonz said:


> Mr. “Jaws” man, sir.
> 
> I didn’t post here to try and take over your holiness’s thrown which you seem to fear someone might do some day. I, like you, am not hiding behind some emoji with such a scarry, menacing name such as “Jaws”.
> 
> ...


I don't normally get involved in pissing matches, but you "sir" have no idea what you are talking about, at least as far as John "JAWS" is concerned.

I have been a member of this site for a good while, and few have offered as much helpful advice about building, business, and brisket as he has.

As far as hiding behind "Jaws", as most on here know, those are his initials, and I would expect most on here know his name, the name of his company and where he works.

I live and work in the same community as he does and can vouch for him that he does indeed do what the says. He and his family are a valuable asset to the local community and their profession.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

Jaws said:


> Too bad that mayor got a snowflake. The mayor woulda learned a real lesson if that attempt was on a nail banger from Centex.
> 
> Dude bstter be a beast or he woulda learned something about the jungle a long way from 3k suits


Snowflake?
This calls for a work contest. I think there are several others our age. (38) Easy, Reggi, who else?

I can picture it in my head… I’ll have you quitting on us at noon so you can fire up the grill and feed us. I bet you would slaughter us in an eating contest lol.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> I don't normally get involved in pissing matches, but you "sir" have no idea what you are talking about, at least as far as John "JAWS" is concerned.
> 
> I have been a member of this site for a good while, and few have offered as much helpful advice about building, business, and brisket as he has.
> 
> ...



I'll get you that payment tomorrow


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

WBailey1041 said:


> Snowflake?
> This calls for a work contest. I think there are several others our age. (38) Easy, Reggi, who else?
> 
> I can picture it in my head… I’ll have you quitting on us at noon so you can fire up the grill and feed us. I bet you would slaughter us in an eating contest lol.


You got this all wrong amigo. I work for you and the crew - by making sure the wheels stay greased and the materials stay ahead of you and keep them pesky home owners off of you. Yall move that materials into place I got to go check on our materials in the sweet ride 

Deck, Eric brancard, seven and META around our age.


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## JoeStanton (Sep 24, 2008)

39 here, been in business 15 of em'. Not to brag but 2 of those years I even made money!


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