# Material Increases have killed profits for painters



## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

As a long time painter and member of this forum, I just wanted to see if anybody else feels the way I do about the future of painting. When I started painting in the late 90's, I could walk into ANY paint store and expect to buy a gallon of quality exterior paint for between 20-25 dollars. It was also common to pay a decent painter in the neighborhood of 10-13 dollars per hour. 

Fast forward to today, 2012 and I can still attract decent painters for 12-13 dollars per hour but my material has basically doubled since the late 90's. I remember paying less than 10 dollars per gallon for the popular ceiling paints, now it's closer to 16 dollars or more per gallon. That same gallon of Super Paint exterior from 1999 that I paid 22 dollars for is now a staggering 32-35 dollars per gallon. 

This is a scary looking future for the paint business because you simply can't pass on these types of increases to all of your customers. Customers that have been good customers ten years ago, now can't afford your skills because of these massive price increases. What the paint industry has effectively done is to make your customer base much smaller than before. Obviously we all try to pass on the rise in paint products to our potential customers because it's good business sense but it's hard to imagine the industry growing because of the continual rise in materials. Everything else related to painting has stayed stagnant...meaning materials are eating into our profits more than ever.


----------



## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

So you are saying you can't pass increased costs onto your customers?

or is it you can't seem to figure a way to SELL your customers on increased costs?

Might be time to upgrade your customers to a better class or dig harder and find the ones willing to pay for a better job.


----------



## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

Everybodies materials are rising. Everyone. You cant be bidding at 90s prices its 2012. Just water down your paint like everybody else:jester:kidding. Its not just paint,its everything


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Since paint is often like the pc apple or ford chevy debate for people I often times will let them pick out and pay for there own paint then I charge per coat it takes to finish the job. The cheaper the paint they buy the more I make. It also lets them see first hand how much the stuff costs. All part of the education they get when they hire us...


----------



## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

its the same for all trades, but i've increased prices to reflect the increase in materials. The price for labor has been stagnant. Drywall numbers for installation and finishing are where they were 10-12 years ago.


----------



## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

Sadly with another huge Gas increase on the horizon raw goods will skyrocket, I mean have ya seen the price of food

But like all the high end long time successful contractors here will tell ya just pass along to your customers or find others who will pay......:whistling

In all seriousness its gonna be a interesting year to say the least...hell whats the big deal if fuel is $4.00 bucks and paint is $60.00 bucks a loaf of bread is $3.50 etc etc economy is booming so don't sweat it...:thumbsup:


----------



## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

35% increase on sheetrock this last month:laughing:thats a bit more significant than some other materials


----------



## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Framer53 said:


> So you are saying you can't pass increased costs onto your customers?
> 
> or is it you can't seem to figure a way to SELL your customers on increased costs?
> 
> Might be time to upgrade your customers to a better class or dig harder and find the ones willing to pay for a better job.


Actually I'm saying several things. My customer base seems to have shrunk compared to what we were seeing just 8-10 years ago. Of course you can pass certain costs on to the customer and you have to if you're going to be successful in business. But let's don't act like it's quite that easy, passing along more and more costs reflects in our quotes and bids. Over time, we start to see less and less greenlights and more redlights when it comes to jobs. 

It cracks me up when I read people telling me to upgrade my customer base because MOST of us are actually competing for the middle class' dollar. You might find that hard to believe but it's VERY true. I've made a decent business off of the middle class because they outnumber the high class probably 100-1 or more. Middle class people are or should be your target audience. Of course you sprinkle in the upper class when it presents itself...as it did me last week for example. 

My point is simple...there's only so much passing on the buck a painter can do before his business is either non existant or totally shut down. If we're all going to be forced to chase the upper crust of America, God help us.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I think you simply have to honestly and effectively educate your potential customers. The cost of paint for them to do it themselves has gone up too. If you can simply show that the cost of labor has remained stable, you should be able to still close most deals.


----------



## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

Warren said:


> I think you simply have to honestly and effectively educate your potential customers. The cost of paint for them to do it themselves has gone up too. If you can simply show that the cost of labor has remained stable, you should be able to still close most deals.



True but sadly labor and painting prices are what they were 20 years ago, yet insurance , fuel, equipment etc has all risen big time... so even when we are able to educate the customer it really is a tough sell.

They just added another trash fee, and dumpster fee in my city. Now that might not seem like a big deal but when its increase after increase , fee after fee, tax increase after tax increase it effects the morale and the pocketbook of the consumer. Now the talk of the town is gas spiking again, every estimate I go on in my blue collar middle class work areas I hear about it. My answer has been educating the consumer of having a choices and why maybe choosing $50 dollar a gallon paint is not needed. This is no game for sissy's why I market my a** off...


----------



## GPI (Jan 13, 2005)

Think,
Why are you not giving the customers options>? Good -better-best-?No diff than the paint stores selling optional grades. 

SherScrub /Sherwin Williams 12-16 a gallon
Pro Mar Lines, 15-23
Super Paint 22-32
exteriors no different, A100,Super paint, Duration, Resilience Are you afraid your competitions labor rates are lower? What is the real issue here? Either your too high for your market (labor) or your bunching your pricing together where the customer has no choice but YOUR bottom lines. More info please? 

PS I dont know about you, but im never afraid to ask a customer what their budget is. THEY KNOW! You dont, so explain what you can give them based on their budget, either theyre a tire kicker or a buyer, youll soon find out with one simple question. Whats your budget.?:thumbup:


----------



## paintmonopoly (Jan 21, 2012)

We are going to see some major changes in building and construction in the next few years.

Raw material cost increases are increasing because of increased global demand and an strategic unwillingness of raw material producers to expand supply. Why should they? Kronos, the largest producer of Ti02, basically warned paint manufacturers of a minimum 10% increase per quarter with no supply contracts for smaller purchasers and a two week contract for larger customers. 

Obviously, any paint manufacturer that owns their own Ti02 mines are in a good spot. 
There are only a couple of those.

Akzo Nobel is probably in the best strategic position keep costs low through their direct ownership of surfactant factories and Ti02 mines in China. Those prices GPI posted confirm my theory.

Here is what I'm seeing in my region from Glidden Professional stores:
Promaster line 10-14 a gallon
UH 150 Interior line 13-16 
Diamond 350 20-28 per gallon. These are prices from last week based on a phone call with a Glidden sales rep.

You guys have forgotten how to negotiate with your supplier. We become comfortable taking our colors and matches to a store. We let a sole supplier control all our color cards , credit, job accounts. We get comfortable and complacent going to the same place every morning and you will ultimately pay the price for that. Look what happened to book shops when Barnes and Nobles killed them all.

SW stock is traded on the stock exchange. Their stock is near $100 a share.
Their executives are paid millions of dollars per year with huge stock options waiting to be cashed in. You are directly paying for that when you purchase their paints at over inflated prices.

If you are giving the majority of your business to a single supplier, switch it up.
This year more than any other year, suppliers are *giving new customers huge discounts* and incentives to gain market share. 

Here is the best advice I have if you want to increase profits:

Expand into new markets. Go where there is less competition. Switch up to Industrial painting, floor epoxies, waterproofing, roof coatings, acid staining, faux, anti-graffiti, property management, etc etc. Challenge the guys who own those markets in your area. Most likely they have the same competition they've had for decades.

The same old story of "you've got to sell your self and your brand" only goes so far. Customers in all markets are price conscious right now and they're willing to give a new guy a chance. You should be doing the same. 

There are companies in California that are taking old mistints, refuse paint and creating recycled paints at 7 to 10$ a gallon. Great for undercoating. 

BTW, Sherwin is notorious for protecting the large painters from price increases by over charging house painters to subsidize them. Not all SW customers will get a price increase this year. You can bank on that.


----------



## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

One other thing, how much is paint in your overall pricing scheme?

10%, 20%?


----------



## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

Paint has increased but not by that much. I have always paid over $30 a gallon for exterior paint (charge about $45 a gallon now) and its gone up from around $20-$25 for interior. The price for an exterior paint job, say a weeks worth of work is $2000, even for a straight stucco job where paint consumption would be high, say 15 gallons at $35 a gallon thats $525. 7 or 8 years ago at $25 a gallon it would be $375. So the difference is only $150, if you are losing out on a $2500 job because of a $100 your not selling yourself well at all.
On a typical bedroom, usually 2 gallons, the difference would only be $20 or so? maybe $30?
I always let the customer know what paint I use and why. I offer them the options to use a better paint and let them know the benefits/drawbacks.
I don't think I have ever lost a job over the cost of materials, I try to inform the customer of the materials/processes in detail enough so they can make sure they are comparing apples to apples.


----------



## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

Sorry but these threads are rediculous. Painting is 10-20% materials on average..usually more around 10. If you think the rising cost of materials is the reason your business is going to struggle/struggling your sadly mistaken.


----------



## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

SuperiorHIP said:


> Paint has increased but not by that much. I have always paid over $30 a gallon for exterior paint (charge about $45 a gallon now) and its gone up from around $20-$25 for interior. The price for an exterior paint job, say a weeks worth of work is $2000, even for a straight stucco job where paint consumption would be high, say 15 gallons at $35 a gallon thats $525. 7 or 8 years ago at $25 a gallon it would be $375. So the difference is only $150, if you are losing out on a $2500 job because of a $100 your not selling yourself well at all.
> On a typical bedroom, usually 2 gallons, the difference would only be $20 or so? maybe $30?
> I always let the customer know what paint I use and why. I offer them the options to use a better paint and let them know the benefits/drawbacks.
> I don't think I have ever lost a job over the cost of materials, I try to inform the customer of the materials/processes in detail enough so they can make sure they are comparing apples to apples.


Wow!! Paint be cheap down south, your not getting any interior paint up here fro $20-25 bucks, try $40-50 bucks... Benjamin Moore Regal is now $40.00 bucks and rising... I have lost allot of jobs since I started in the 70's due to material but I'm still here. Hell Pro Mar 200 here will run ya $30.00 a gallon..


----------



## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

Spaint90 said:


> Sorry but these threads are rediculous. Painting is 10-20% materials on average..usually more around 10. If you think the rising cost of materials is the reason your business is going to struggle/struggling your sadly mistaken.


Can you give a class here on how to be a successful contractor, cause nothing seems to effect your business. Your booked with work, gas prices, material prices no matter the storm your making money. Hell as the economy is absolutely awful small and big business's dropping like flies here, come and speak at our next Chamber Meeting I'll book it! 

I sure don't want to be posting any ridiculous statements here so help a old timer out.:thumbsup:


----------



## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Too many Mexicans


----------



## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

I think my super spec (what I usually use inside) flat is $24 or so and eggshel is $26. Regal I don't typically use so I'm not sure the cost. Aura is a little over $60. Moorglo is $45 or so, moorlife is $38.


----------



## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

We are not supposed to discuss prices


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

jawtrs said:


> I will make more money , i would bet. i pay about 27.50$ a gallon for Super Paint. Add 11$ or so dollars for increase, or 13$ compounded. i markup my material, so at 40$ a gallon, i will make more money.


I love quoting myself too.. :laughing:


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> In house paint only crew. You must have some operation there. :thumbsup:


It is, Thanks. Hope we can hold it together, need the work to keep rolling in though.

Its the best trade to employ for us, finish work is what sells. They are only good at painting and some drywall, and we have an AWESOME patch guy. They arent carpenters who also paint. My dad had a paint company for a few years when he split with my grandpa, and is a hell of a painter and cabinet finisher, so is my brother. One of the guys has been with him since he was with my grandpa I was 10 when he was hired. I dont paint unless there is NOTHING else to do, even then, i do the prep and do their grunt work. My brother and 3 guys. Sometimes a struggle to keep them busy, and for breif spells in 09 and 10 we had to lay two guys off, they are back now, hopefully for good.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

jawtrs said:


> Its the best trade to employ for us, finish work is what sells. They are only good at painting and some drywall, and we have an AWESOME patch guy. They arent carpenters who also paint. My dad a paint company for a few years when he split with my grandpa, and is a hell of a painter and cabinet finisher, so is my brother. One of the guys has been with him since he was with my grandpa I was 10 when he was hired. I dont paint unless there is NOTHING else to do, even then, i do the prep and do their grunt work. My brother and 3 guys. Sometimes a struggle to keep them busy, and for breif spells in 09 and 10 we had to lay two guys off, they are back now, hopefully for good.


:thumbup: I hope so too.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

:


ohiohomedoctor said:


> :thumbup: I hope so too.





jawtrs said:


> It is, Thanks. Hope we can hold it together, need the work to keep rolling in though.
> 
> Its the best trade to employ for us, finish work is what sells. They are only good at painting and some drywall, and we have an AWESOME patch guy. They arent carpenters who also paint. My dad had a paint company for a few years when he split with my grandpa, and is a hell of a painter and cabinet finisher, so is my brother. One of the guys has been with him since he was with my grandpa I was 10 when he was hired. I dont paint unless there is NOTHING else to do, even then, i do the prep and do their grunt work. My brother and 3 guys. Sometimes a struggle to keep them busy, and for breif spells in 09 and 10 we had to lay two guys off, they are back now, hopefully for good.


 Qouteing myself again.:laughing:

What said is not entirely true, unintentionly. My brother is also a trim carpenter, and they are all good at setting up the sites, dust protection, ect. Very good. The two journey level painters and every now and again the really good one help with demo's. 

It is expensive to keep, two of our work vehicles are for the painters, so insurance and maintinance, ect, plus equipment replacement/maintinance. But its really a huge asset, especially in occupied homes.

OhioDR, do you guys have any in house feild guys? just curious about others operations. For us remodelers, it really takes guys who are good at a lot of things, in my experience.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

jawtrs said:


> :
> 
> Qouteing myself again.:laughing:
> 
> ...


Yes, we handle 80% of our work in house. I am blessed (pay them very well) to have extremely talented guys who handle a broad spectrum of tasks. Remodeling takes a much more talented person than building.


----------



## paintmonopoly (Jan 21, 2012)

jawtrs said:


> I will make more money , i would bet. i pay about 27.50$ a gallon for Super Paint. Add 11$ or so dollars for increase, or 13$ compounded. i markup my material, so at 40$ a gallon, i will make more money.


Diamond 350 at the Glidden Pro stores costs $20 a gallon right now. Its the same quality as the superpaint. You keep giving SW your money. Hopefully they will give you more stirsticks  just make sure they're the flat ones, not the round ones. :whistling


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

paintmonopoly said:


> Diamond 350 at the Glidden Pro stores costs $20 a gallon right now. Its the same quality as the superpaint. You keep giving SW your money. Hopefully they will give you more stirsticks  just make sure they're the flat ones, not the round ones. :whistling


At a couple dollars a gallon cheaper Ill stick with the Super.


----------



## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Yes, we handle 80% of our work in house. I am blessed (pay them very well) to have extremely talented guys who handle a broad spectrum of tasks. Remodeling takes a much more talented person than building.


That sure is the truth. I would like to hire someone, but the truth is I can't find anyone that cand handle that broad a range of work. They will be a great painter but can't read a tape. Or know all about roofing but nothing about windows. The sad thing is if they would just stop and think about it for a second it's common sense.


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Sounds like a few painters here are selling on price. That has to be hard to do especially when most homeowners paint themselves. The wife and I are thinking of repainting our bathroom next weekend.

About the employee thing, it is hard to keep the same people in this trade. I got a few guys who know a heck of a lot about everything, my sales guy was a finish carpenter so everyone has a little experience. Key is to pay them well to keep them.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Sounds like a few painters here are selling on price. That has to be hard to do* especially when most homeowners paint themselves.* The wife and I are thinking of repainting our bathroom next weekend.
> 
> About the employee thing, it is hard to keep the same people in this trade. I got a few guys who know a heck of a lot about everything, my sales guy was a finish carpenter so everyone has a little experience. Key is to pay them well to keep them.


This is what I was getting at if you are in certain markets. Add, say, 3 or 4 increases in a short period of time, and starts to have an effect.

From what some are saying, it seems if I can get the paint store to increase their prices enough, I could get a really nice truck this year.

You know pay more, make more $.

No point of diminishing returns?


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

boman47k said:


> This is what I was getting at if you are in certain markets. Add, say, 3 or 4 increases in a short period of time, and starts to have an effect.
> 
> From what some are saying, it seems if I can get the paint store to increase their prices enough, I could get a really nice truck this year.
> 
> ...


I get where you're coming from but now that my materials cost me more, I make more off of them. I remember before I want out on my own that there was a 6-9% increase on roofing products every few weeks for a few months.

You should make money off your materials. For example, I pay $84 a square for the shingles I prefer, if a HO goes and buys ten themselves, they'll be paying $96 and not have a way to get them delivered. I charge $110 for one square of shingles and all I do is call and say when I want it delivered.

If you're a painter and a gallon of paint regularly costs $30, I would guess you should be able to purchase it for $25-26 a gallon just due to volume and your relationship with your supplier.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Fuel increases are interesting when I think of this situation. Kind of explains my point. Fuel price starts to go up. Things are fine. They continue to go up. They hit $4 per gal, people start driving less. Seems to be the point of diminishing returns. Not worth it to drive to the store for just one or two items anymore, wait and pick up numerous items when you do get out. 


Before I quit smoking, I said sometimes I wish the price of cigarettes would double over night. It might have made quitting easier instead of the gradual increase that came about.

I think I once said when the price of cig's get to $1, I am quitting. Yeah, right. They were like $3+ when I quit, and it was stents and a night in the hospital that finally did it.

Then again, who am I? Gas prices go up enough, we may all get ******* rich! :jester: 

Materials go up sharply in short period of time, fuel goes up........



Good times are here again!

Seriously, there is only a finite amount we can pass on in a given period of time.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I wonder if the pricing situation will ever get to the point to where to be in the painting business, you have to be able to buy in such larger quanities that the small operators will go the way of the family farm. I guess this would make for a lot more indians and fewer big chiefs.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

paintmonopoly said:


> Diamond 350 at the Glidden Pro stores costs $20 a gallon right now. Its the same quality as the superpaint. You keep giving SW your money. Hopefully they will give you more stirsticks  just make sure they're the flat ones, not the round ones. :whistling



Gladden...:whistling:laughing:

Thanks, but I don't sell on price really. We are quite a bit more than most paint companies, 200$ on a whole house isn't going to lose a sale I would get anyway. Plus the Lowes here sucks, ill stick with dealing with pros. Ben Moore or SW.


----------



## Paintahh (Feb 21, 2012)

Most of my work comes from in and around Boston. Over the last 2 years, I've been forced to take a 25% labor rate cut just to stay busy enough to pay the bills....At the same time, paint prices have gone through the roof...

What REALLY gets me is: I can perform a LOT of work in one day. Customers see the time it takes me and feel that because I was able to work non-stop for 8 hours and paint 2-3 rooms solo, somehow they should only be charged a days labor?? It has taken me 20 years to become capable of painting @ that speed??? It took the better part of 5 years to learn to paint just as well with both hands.....Frustrates me quite a bit....

I tend to quote jobs cheaper if I am not busy. Sad to say I haven't been busy enough to quote jobs where they "should" be in a couple years...A few decent sized jobs, I was told where I needed to be in order to get the job and after running the numbers, they didn't make sense???

I also have had an awful lot of empty promises from contractors who hang the carrot and deliver but a peel from it......Thinking about going union. At one point it was more profitable to be on my own....Now the only bonus I get from running my own company is the flexibility of the schedule; which I would gladly trade for 40-50 bucks an hour on a regular basis.

I blame a lot of it on illegals....If you know someone that knows someone that has used a guy for 15-20 bucks an hour and has had good results, why wouldn't you use them??

One thing you might consider to save a little on materials is use a cheap flat paint for the 1st coat. As long as the tint is close, you can't tell the difference once the finish coat is applied.
If you are doing volume, this can save you a LOT of $$$.


Anyway....there's my 2 cents. 
Really enjoy this place.
Thanks


----------



## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

I've started to shoot labor prices instead of labor/material. The obvious drawback to doing this is that you don't have near the writeoffs at the end of the year. But there's also a huge positive, I don't have to manage my money perfectly just to go hand Sherwin Williams or Ben Moore the grand I typically owe them at month's end. 

I'm getting ready to do a 2500 dollar job, labor only and it feels REAL good that he's buying the paint. When you go this route, you must educate the customer on what to buy and be specific...write it down on paper. 

For those of you who really think material is only 10% of a job's total cost, you're either Fu!!ing the customers over or you're just an idiot. I've done deck/stain jobs where the material was at least 25% of the cost, if not 30%. The average 1000 dollar deck that we all contract and perform on a yearly basis, generally has between 200-300 dollars in stain.


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Dorman Painting said:


> I've started to shoot labor prices instead of labor/material. The obvious drawback to doing this is that you don't have near the writeoffs at the end of the year. But there's also a huge positive, I don't have to manage my money perfectly just to go hand Sherwin Williams or Ben Moore the grand I typically owe them at month's end.
> 
> I'm getting ready to do a 2500 dollar job, labor only and it feels REAL good that he's buying the paint. When you go this route, you must educate the customer on what to buy and be specific...write it down on paper.
> 
> For those of you who really think material is only 10% of a job's total cost, you're either Fu!!ing the customers over or you're just an idiot. I've done deck/stain jobs where the material was at least 25% of the cost, if not 30%. The average 1000 dollar deck that we all contract and perform on a yearly basis, generally has between 200-300 dollars in stain.


They were talking about a 10% increase being the reason they can't land jobs. 10% on $300 of materials is only $30.


----------



## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

Dorman Painting said:


> I've started to shoot labor prices instead of labor/material. The obvious drawback to doing this is that you don't have near the writeoffs at the end of the year. But there's also a huge positive, I don't have to manage my money perfectly just to go hand Sherwin Williams or Ben Moore the grand I typically owe them at month's end.
> 
> I'm getting ready to do a 2500 dollar job, labor only and it feels REAL good that he's buying the paint. When you go this route, you must educate the customer on what to buy and be specific...write it down on paper.
> 
> For those of you who really think material is only 10% of a job's total cost, you're either Fu!!ing the customers over or you're just an idiot. I've done deck/stain jobs where the material was at least 25% of the cost, if not 30%. The average 1000 dollar deck that we all contract and perform on a yearly basis, generally has between 200-300 dollars in stain.


i get jobs all the time that are 10% material..and im not f!!king my customer over, does that make me an idiot?


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Dorman Painting said:


> I've started to shoot labor prices instead of labor/material. The obvious drawback to doing this is that you don't have near the writeoffs at the end of the year. But there's also a huge positive, I don't have to manage my money perfectly just to go hand Sherwin Williams or Ben Moore the grand I typically owe them at month's end.
> 
> I'm getting ready to do a 2500 dollar job, labor only and it feels REAL good that he's buying the paint. When you go this route, you must educate the customer on what to buy and be specific...write it down on paper.
> 
> For those of you who really think material is only 10% of a job's total cost, you're either Fu!!ing the customers over or you're just an idiot. I've done deck/stain jobs where the material was at least 25% of the cost, if not 30%. The average 1000 dollar deck that we all contract and perform on a yearly basis, generally has between 200-300 dollars in stain.



Please, give me a ****ing break. YOU are complaining about not making sales, mean while I remain profitable running a legitimate crew, well paid, fully insured with company vehicles and you are trying to DICTATE to ME what is ****ing my clients over????? What a joke. This was amusing 3 days ago, annoying and disrespectful now. Go back to putting flyers on windshields at HD, the clients I'm "****ing " over will keep refering our company and the men who work for us.


----------



## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

jawtrs said:


> Please, give me a ****ing break. YOU are complaining about not making sales, mean while I remain profitable running a legitimate crew, well paid, fully insured with company vehicles and you are trying to DICTATE to ME what is ****ing my clients over????? What a joke. This was amusing 3 days ago, annoying and disrespectful now. Go back to putting flyers on windshields at HD, the clients I'm "****ing " over will keep refering our company and the men who work for us.


Actually, I've got close to fifteen thousand on the books for the next three to four weeks...not bad for a husband/wife operation. There's lots of guys on here who claim to make 50-60 bucks an hour or at least try and charge that much. I'm certainly not saying it's not possible to get those kinds of jobs, but they aren't everyday type of jobs either. 

It's easy to sit behind a computer and play Paint God. My area, the Greater Louisville Ky area, simply won't support a paint business that consistently charges at that rate. Most painters around here are still charging between 30-40 dollars a man hour. They can get away with it because they're not legit. They don't file their taxes and in most cases don't carry a lick of insurance...and that's not just around here but all over this country. 

I still contend that material is much greater than 10% of the total cost on most jobs too. A five hundred dollar bedroom can easily have 100 dollars in material, that's 20% all day long.


----------



## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> Please, give me a ****ing break. YOU are complaining about not making sales, mean while I remain profitable running a legitimate crew, well paid, fully insured with company vehicles and you are trying to DICTATE to ME what is ****ing my clients over????? What a joke. This was amusing 3 days ago, annoying and disrespectful now. Go back to putting flyers on windshields at HD, the clients I'm "****ing " over will keep refering our company and the men who work for us.


this guy is going to be hard pressed to make a living..he isnt comfortable bidding paint on a "2500" job. I find that amusing..how do you consider yourself a contractor at that point seriously? i wouldnt sweat it jawtrs..you sound like you got a good thing going. this thread is for all the doom and gloomers that need to find the tampon isle and consider growing a pair.


----------



## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Dude, I've bid paint on 75 Thousand dollar jobs AND turned a good profit...I really don't think a 2500 dollar is out of my league.lol. I've been in business for almost fifteen years and have done jobs ranging from close to 100Grand all the way to a 50 dollar door and made money on them all. 

The fact remains though, with the absurd rising cost in paint/material, it's harder to maintain your expected profit margins. Sure we have to adjust costs and tack on more money to our quotes but beating your chest and playing king of the jungle is BS. If that's the game, I'll win 90% of the time over most men.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Dorman Painting said:


> Actually, I've got close to fifteen thousand on the books for the next three to four weeks...not bad for a husband/wife operation. There's lots of guys on here who claim to make 50-60 bucks an hour or at least try and charge that much. I'm certainly not saying it's not possible to get those kinds of jobs, but they aren't everyday type of jobs either.
> 
> It's easy to sit behind a computer and play Paint God. My area, the Greater Louisville Ky area, simply won't support a paint business that consistently charges at that rate. Most painters around here are still charging between 30-40 dollars a man hour. They can get away with it because they're not legit. They don't file their taxes and in most cases don't carry a lick of insurance...and that's not just around here but all over this country.
> 
> I still contend that material is much greater than 10% of the total cost on most jobs too. A five hundred dollar bedroom can easily have 100 dollars in material, that's 20% all day long.


 MOST OF THE TIME? Sounds like back tracking to me, last I heard you called me a scam artist for my materials used being only 10% on a job. You generalized, didn't say most jobs, before. 

Almost every cabinet job my guys do is close to 10% materials, especially faux or matching an antique. My guys applie Sickens to some pine soffit on a tower 40 ft in the air with a boom lift. Materials were a speck on that bill

. Don't assume all areas are like yours . My labor prices aren't as high as some of the ones you mentioned, but I don't or wouldn't begrudge a guy who could get them

Run around calling honest men scam artists, and some will take it personal. I did.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Dorman Painting said:


> Dude, I've bid paint on 75 Thousand dollar jobs AND turned a good profit...I really don't think a 2500 dollar is out of my league.lol. I've been in business for almost fifteen years and have done jobs ranging from close to 100Grand all the way to a 50 dollar door and made money on them all.
> 
> The fact remains though, with the absurd rising cost in paint/material, it's harder to maintain your expected profit margins. Sure we have to adjust costs and tack on more money to our quotes but beating your chest and playing king of the jungle is BS. If that's the game, I'll win 90% of the time over most men.


 Before you mentioned someone playing Paint God. I will remind you that YOU are dictating the "proper" material to labor ratio.

King of the jungle? Another wuss spouting off about being a hard ass on the internet..:whistling Like they say the one who talks the loudest....:whistling


----------



## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

jawtrs said:


> Before you mentioned someone playing Paint God. I will remind you that YOU are dictating the "proper" material to labor ratio.
> 
> King of the jungle? Another wuss spouting off about being a hard ass on the internet..:whistling Like they say the one who talks the loudest....:whistling


 Usually has the highest blood pressure


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Just to bring this thread back from the shelf...

Word is that roofing materials are going to be seeing a price increase of anywhere from 8-10%. That is 8-10% just on shingles is now between $7-10 a square, making 100 square feet of shingles nearly $100. This doesn't include felt or any accessories.

You should at least take some comfort in knowing you increases are about $30 a job while ours will be around $300-500.


----------



## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

Sheetrock up 25% since around the 1rst of the year pass the buck:laughing:


----------



## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Drywall is having a 14% increase per quarter. Supplier attached the manufactures notification letters with the email

Sad. Guess my mark up is going to be higher now. 

I'll just wait for the letter from my customers saying they are having a 14% increase per quarter in their budget.


----------



## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Mud Master said:


> Drywall is having a 14% increase per quarter. Supplier attached the manufactures notification letters with the email
> 
> *Sad. Guess my mark up is going to be higher now.*
> 
> I'll just wait for the letter from my customers saying they are having a 14% increase per quarter in their budget.


why would you change your markup?


----------



## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

bconley said:


> why would you change your markup?


I meant the mark up total will be higher than it was prior to the increase.

Sorry, night work really screws with my head. I'm usually pretty good with words. :notworthy


----------



## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

Our prices went up 25% Feb. !rst.Should stay all year at that price


----------



## pghsteve (Mar 24, 2012)

THINKPAINTING said:


> Wow!! Paint be cheap down south, your not getting any interior paint up here fro $20-25 bucks, try $40-50 bucks... Benjamin Moore Regal is now $40.00 bucks and rising... I have lost allot of jobs since I started in the 70's due to material but I'm still here. Hell Pro Mar 200 here will run ya $30.00 a gallon..


Dude.... no, it's not. SW prices are consistent everywhere, and if you're paying 30 you need to shop your business elsewhere. They're killing you.

Superpaint shouldn't be above 32-33 or so.


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

THINKPAINTING said:


> Hell Pro Mar 200 here will run ya $30.00 a gallon..


Pfft. I just paid $37 a gallon for Pro mar 200 semi-gloss yesterday.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Pfft. I just paid $37 a gallon for Pro mar 200 semi-gloss yesterday.


Ouch, some discount your getting.. :laughing:

I think its a little cheaper up here but not much. $$$ has made 200 my go to product though.


----------



## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

Wow, this thread is still going?


----------



## Pete'sfeets (Mar 20, 2011)

Just about anybody can get a discount on paint now-a-days ,all depends how much they moan an yowl ,I got a big house or hire the store designer, then get an inside pitch, I had a builder who because of the incredible amount of lumber he bought, the discount applied to paint too, good paint at that, an easy 25 instead of 20 percent off. Some stuff tho is just more expensive at the paint store, the bin shellac was 58 at hd and 49 at the can tire, go figure. I wouldn't dream to ask at the paint store, why bother, even their own super stick primer is more than the common zinnser.. I couldn't buy enough paint to compete with the volume of eight large houses framed ect, who we kidding. The cost difference between the independant ben dealer and the bigger commercial stores like sherwin and dilux is minimal , and though they discount extra for volume all their accounting doesn't really alotte for the factor that the volume is for cheap variations of paint not the top of the line stuff that is supposed to build reputation. Too many versions of paint just confuses , and since the volume factor merely infects the final price who knows what to pick or even what is the top or middle line. In my neck of the woods, the painters that got wealthy , did renovations , flipped houses and built towards building houses new . But just paint houses? not too sure thats enough.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Pfft. I just paid $37 a gallon for Pro mar 200 semi-gloss yesterday.


That's what Super costs bro. Florida pricing must suck. Lol


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

jawtrs said:


> That's what Super costs bro. Florida pricing must suck. Lol


But at the end of the day he is in Florida. :clap:


----------



## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Pfft. I just paid $37 a gallon for Pro mar 200 semi-gloss yesterday.


We have using allot of Ben Moore Select Matte finish dries quick covers great and 2 coats one day for a residential job( all there is here anyway) gets us in and out. Tried Cashmere again form SW stuff smells like diesel fuel homeowner hated it.

Pro Mar 200 eggshell for us is way to shiny and the low sheen isn't much better not for that kind of money. But no biggie all the big money painting contractors posting here can make money buying paint for $100 bucks a gallon and fuel at $5.00 bucks a gallon they just pass it on to there customers...:blink::blink:


----------



## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

THINKPAINTING said:


> We have using allot of Ben Moore Select Matte finish dries quick covers great and 2 coats one day for a residential job( all there is here anyway) gets us in and out. Tried Cashmere again form SW stuff smells like diesel fuel homeowner hated it.
> 
> Pro Mar 200 eggshell for us is way to shiny and the low sheen isn't much better not for that kind of money. But no biggie all the big money painting contractors posting here can make money buying paint for $100 bucks a gallon and fuel at $5.00 bucks a gallon they just pass it on to there customers...:blink::blink:


100/ gallon..where do you shop around. 5 bucks a gallon/gas? dude no wonder your always complaining. your get railed on pricing:laughing:


----------

