# How do you charge for stuff?



## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

How do you charge for materials you allready have on hand? Things you have from a previous job like nails, lumber, etc? For instance I allways charge for a gallon of paint no matter how small the job. This means that sometimes I may charge 5 times for the same gallon. Anyone do it the same? Different?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Prorate when possible. I'm not a big fan of double-dipping.


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

if it got on the van for free no charge, but alas every thing on my van cost me, i put a small amount on the inv for stocked stuff, i always leave the paint, thats hazardous waste.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Prorate when possible. I'm not a big fan of double-dipping.


When do you pro rate though? Using the paint example, If it takes a half gallon of white paint to paint trim I replaced, I still had to buy the entire gallon. So do you lose money on the first job because you only charge for the 1/2 gallon? Hoping to make it up on the next job? Or do you charge for the entire gallon the first time and give free materials to the next customer?


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## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

I think that it's fair to charge the same as it would cost if you didn't already have it. If not how do you decide what job should have the benefit of getting the pro rated materials. 
One exception would be for repurposed things like doors, if they have been used and then removed they should be discounted


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

summithomeinc said:


> When do you pro rate though? Using the paint example, If it takes a half gallon of white paint to paint trim I replaced, I still had to buy the entire gallon. So do you lose money on the first job because you only charge for the 1/2 gallon? Hoping to make it up on the next job? Or do you charge for the entire gallon the first time and give free materials to the next customer?


Say, I buy 32' of tile profile for a job and bill the cust for 26' of it. I might have 6' left over. Next job, I can sell for a back splash. I know the per foot cost so I charge them for the 6'. The original order took care of all the handling stuff (ordering, picking up, etc). Add 20% and it's all good.

For something more similar to paint, liquid waterproofing is basically the same deal. I order 5 gals for a job and only use 3, I charge them for 3. Next job, I need 3 more, I bill for the 2 left overs and order a 1 gal (or another 5 and only bill them for 1 gal).

I won't want to have a sub double bill me for a material I already paid for so I won't do that to a customer.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

sunkist said:


> if it got on the van for free no charge, but alas every thing on my van cost me, i put a small amount on the inv for stocked stuff, i always leave the paint, thats hazardous waste.


I was just using paint as an example. I leave all paint except for white and black.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> When do you pro rate though? Using the paint example, If it takes a half gallon of white paint to paint trim I replaced, I still had to buy the entire gallon. So do you lose money on the first job because you only charge for the 1/2 gallon? Hoping to make it up on the next job? Or do you charge for the entire gallon the first time and give free materials to the next customer?


The first job gets charged full boat for what ever you needed to complete the job. Subsequent jobs, that were able to use the left over materials were charged a pro-rated $$ in the case of paint, mud etc. Lumber, hardware, plumbing, electric etc. were charged out as retail.

Most of the time the bear eats you...sometimes you get to eat the bear...:thumbup::thumbup:...or at least a little chunk...:laughing:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Say, I buy 32' of tile profile for a job and bill the cust for 26' of it. I might have 6' left over. Next job, I can sell for a back splash. I know the per foot cost so I charge them for the 6'. The original order took care of all the handling stuff (ordering, picking up, etc). Add 20% and it's all good.
> 
> For something more similar to paint, liquid waterproofing is basically the same deal. I order 5 gals for a job and only use 3, I charge them for 3. Next job, I need 3 more, I bill for the 2 left overs and order a 1 gal (or another 5 and only bill them for 1 gal).
> 
> I won't want to have a sub double bill me for a material I already paid for so I won't do that to a customer.


I agree. I guess the difference is in the size of the job. If you had a job that only took 1/2 gallon of waterproofing, would you bill for the entire gallon? If you only bill for the 1/2 then you lost money on materials.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> I agree. I guess the difference is in the size of the job. If you had a job that only took 1/2 gallon of waterproofing, would you bill for the entire gallon? If you only bill for the 1/2 then you lost money on materials.


I bulk price. I don't charge for materials and labour I calculate an aggregate price.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I guess I figure it works the same as a job I bid with a big PITA factor. When it turns out to not be so bad I don't refund any money. I use that extra to cover the next job I make a mistake bidding. Same for materials. The customer pays for them. If I have enough to return I will. And I won't charge them for returned materials. However, if I have enough of a partial whatever, I still charge for the entire thing. The extra profit goes to cover the next time I miss the bid by one gallon of paint, one deck board, one whatever.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> I bulk price. I don't charge for materials and labour I calculate an aggregate price.


Everyone charges for materials and labor. (or should) what you are saying is you don't charge by the hour/day/ week etc. You give one set price. 
That is what I am talking about. Say you replace a door and have to paint it. It takes a little over a quart of paint. Do you charge for a gallon of paint? Then on the next door for a different customer, do you charge for a gallon of paint there too? Or do you pro rate the gallon each time and hope you can eventually use it all to pay for it?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

summithomeinc said:


> I agree. I guess the difference is in the size of the job. If you had a job that only took 1/2 gallon of waterproofing, would you bill for the entire gallon? If you only bill for the 1/2 then you lost money on materials.


The difference comes with specialty materials. Like paint....there's no way you know that you'll be using that same color anytime soon. Most paint, I bill for the whole gallon and just leave the remaining with the customer; they paid for it.

Common stuff like my waterproofing, I can charge by the gallon because I use it all the time.

Things that can quickly go bad like tubes of construction adhesive, caulk, etc get billed 100%.

There is a standard charge for things like screws, nails, tape. 

I don't think there's a perfect way to go about it but I personally don't like to do full double dips on materials.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Cost plus, I pro rate most stuff. If I use 3 gallons from 5 of PVA, I bill for 3.

Fixed price, left overs are mine.

If I bill for stuff out of my shop on Cost Plus, the office writes "supplied from shop" or something to that effect and the price.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I have been lucky over the last couple of years. I have had access to the old shop and it had shelves of stuff. Brackets, trim, plywood, spray cans of primer, fasteners, small bits and pieces and lots of chemicals.

I have a basic misc. charge I put on each bid, which depends on the job size and type. If I have the stuff I need, I just use it as they have paid for it whether through me or the hardware store. This is how I normally cover that stuff anyway.

Once I run out of stuff, I just include it in my misc. line item and it is covered. This way I don't have to worry about a half gallon of paint or a half box of oddball fasteners. 

If I'm doing a T+M job and happen to have something like starter or tar paper hanging around I will usually just throw it in to give the customer a break and get it out of my way.


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## Willy is (May 20, 2010)

I round it up, although sometimes on larger amounts I provide an actual proof of expenses from a lumber yard. I don't want em thinking I'm pulling numbers from the air.

If we are talking about nickle dime and dollar stuff the idea is to charge more than it cost. : ) That way you have some left over primer, drywall screws, tar paper.

Tar paper for instance..... many small jobs don't need a full roll, but you have to buy one to do their job. If you charge them for a full roll and you use 10-25 foot, they might feel like they were getting a raw deal. I might use 1/20th of a roll and charge them half. They pay a token amount, feel like they actually saved money.

Next job if I use a little tar paper there is another token charge. You do that and before you know it you have a lot of supplies. Customers are happy because they are saving some money; they wouldn't want to buy a full roll of paper.

Likewise you have some supplies where you can supply them without going to the lumber yard. That saves you time and money.

I just cleaned out a job where we did some work 6 years earlier and instead of doing what I just described above........ we charged full price and gave the customer the roll of tarpaper. (my friend said; they paid for it; they keep it) 
Still sitting in the garage, unused. 95% of a roll. That just seems wasteful.

I like my system better.

Most of my jobs are higher labor to materials ratio. Sometimes the materials aren't worth sweating much over. I still pad things a little so that even if I'm using things from my accumulation the customer knows all the hardware, supplies, consumables, materials, fasteners and sundry widgits l used to get the job done.

It's absolutely part of the job and you notice auto mechanics know how to charge for their parts. : /

willy


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

We had a thread discussing a ''disposable'' charge. I picked up on that and now use it. For me it covers- gloves,towels,drill bits, silicone spray,mesh tape.................all that weird stuff. It may be as little as $5 and as much as $25 It all depends.

Materials are another category. Things picked up to do that job.

I will pro rate stuff I have in stock and normally mark it up in my favor. It's my gas hauling all this stuff around. And My time picking it all up in the first place. Just because I already have whats needed does not mean it should cost less.


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## GTX63 (Sep 9, 2011)

Big Shoe said:


> Materials are another category. Things picked up to do that job.
> 
> I will pro rate stuff I have in stock and normally mark it up in my favor. It's my gas hauling all this stuff around. And My time picking it all up in the first place. Just because I already have whats needed does not mean it should cost less.


Paint, carpet scraps, items like that you can sometime leave with the customers for runners, etc. Once we have to store, inventory, and/or dispose of paint/solvents, that is overhead and we will charge at a pro rated rate and also in our favor.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

I give people a lump sum price to do a project-including supplying the materials. I will detail the materials used- but not the pricing for each material.

the customer is free to accept or reject my proposal

once they accept it,however- that is it!

when figuring up the price--- If I need paint I am charging for a full gallon
plywood?- charging for a full sheet, etc.

If it turns out that to do the project I only need 40% of a gallon and I already HAVE a half gallon-well good for me!- but I am certainly not charging LESS because I already have that half gallon.

business- wise, in my opinion, charging full rate every time is the only way to go-other wise you are looking at losing money on one job and expecting to make it up on another(not smart)

also-let's say I write a proposal in Feb.-and I know I have that half gallon?

but the job doesn't get done untill August. Do you think I still have that same half gallon waiting around?- by august maybe I have zero paint----------or maybe I have 3 gallons-who knows?- but if I wrote the original proposal assuming the purchase of a gallon- I have the money to buy it.

Lets look at something else.-we do a lot of slate repairs. sometimes I have to buy a specific size or color of salvaged slate to do a nice repair--- maybe it costs me $8/slate to buy those slates from my supplier.-----------when I write that proposal in Feb. I internally account for it as $8-$10/slate

BUT-- if we don't do the project untill august I may personally have in stock hundreds of the right slate that I bought elswhere at $1/slate

do I discount that project then?-of course not.-That inventory is for MY benefit- not the customer.

I can't always get the right slate for $1 each- but I can almost always get it for $8-so THAT is what I have to account for because who knows if I will actually own it in stock when it comes time to do the project.

some things like tile roof fittings are almost impossible to get on short notice------so when I see them available salvaged I buy them pronto-even if I have to hold them for 2-3 years before I find just the right house for them-------- think I sell them at a discount on that project because I already own them?????? quite the opposite,in fact!

isn't this business 101?
stephen


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## popagorgio (Aug 8, 2012)

Stephen H said:


> I give people a lump sum price to do a project-including supplying the materials. I will detail the materials used- but not the pricing for each material.
> 
> the customer is free to accept or reject my proposal
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

If I have to buy it, they they have to buy it. If I need a 1/2 gallon of paint I still have to buy the gallon. Usually I'm nice and I won't charge any profit on the paint.

If I have something in stock then it at least gets prorated if it is something that can be used a bit at a time. But remember, it needs to be replaced and that will cost you. Especially if it is an item you normally stock.

Happens to me with wood all the time. I order 350 borad ft and use 300, now I have 50 left over. Technically it is free wood now because it was paid for by the original job. But I'm not going to give it to anyone for free. That ends up being my profit on the last job.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Stephen H said:


> when figuring up the price--- If I need paint I am charging for a full gallon
> plywood?- charging for a full sheet, etc.
> 
> If it turns out that to do the project I only need 40% of a gallon and I already HAVE a half gallon-well good for me!- but I am certainly not charging LESS because I already have that half gallon.
> ...


I dont think so but that is assuming I understand what you're trying to say.

As I read it you charge for full material (perfectly fine). But it soungs like you're saying the left overs are yours and you feel free to charge for them again on another job.

The problem I see with that (if I am understanding correctly) is that once you charge for a material, the HO now owns that material and you install it for them. If you have left overs that were paid for, they are not yours but the HOs. You should not be taking leftovers and adding them to stock to bill for again at a later date. 

At the very least, the HO should be informed of the extra material and be given the choice to keep or _give_ back to you. That material is theirs as they paid in full for it. 

You can do business as however makes you sleep at night but double charging for materials is not business 101 to me.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

as angus said - double charging is kinda shiesty. as a handyman, though, i have to deal with this all the time. i could just charge one price and cover everything, but it depends upon the job and the customer. when i'm doing T&M jobs then i'll do my best estimate on prorating for paint or half a sheet of plywood or whatever i'm using. caulking and specialty stuff i will pass on the whole cost. leftover tiles or custom paint and i always leave it with them regardless of whether or not i can use it on the next job (usually can't because of the nature of my work).


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

No. I don't think that way. The HO buys the job. If you have to get 6 boxes of tiles and it only takes 5 boxes and 1 tile out of the last box those tiles are not the HO's. They are extras.

If you are a nice guy you will leave them with the HO as extras in case one breaks you have the same lot.

But there is nothing wrong with taking them and putting them back into your stock.

So if you don't give them to your client and you save them, you are telling me the next time you need that tile you are going to give it away for free?

Not me.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

angus242 said:


> I dont think so but that is assuming I understand what you're trying to say.
> 
> As I read it you charge for full material (perfectly fine). But it soungs like you're saying the left overs are yours and you feel free to charge for them again on another job.
> 
> ...


Basically-what leo said.

my customers buy a job---- for example replace cedar fascia on North dormer,one coat oil based primer(6 sides),2 finish coats latex paint sherwin williams XYZ color for price $***X

If I buy 50 feet of cedar---I BOUGHT the cedar- the customer didn't------ the cedar is mine. If there is 15 feet left over-it's mine. period.-as long as the cedar is primed and painted as described it is zero concern to the homeowner weather this took 1 gallon or 52 gallons-nor is it their concern weather I already own the paint or weather I bought it specifically for that project.

If we do the roof-we charge them for the roof-we don't line it out as 27 sq. of shingles-it's the roof-and it's zero concern to the homeowner if it takes us 28-1/3 sq.---or it takes us 32 sq.-their price remains the same.

no where do we ever give them any kind of pricing breakdown( we are charging you $38 for a gallon of paint).-the customer doesn't BUY paint-they buy a project that included installed,primed and painted cedar.

we may leave them an opened bundle of shingles as a courtesy-but they don't actually own that open bundle untill I give it to them-what they OWN-are the shingles installed on the roof-and any full bundles are,of course, MINE.

go to Jiffy Lube and get your oil changed- the grease monkey pumps 6 quarts into your car out of a 55 gallon drum ?- you own those 6 quarts- you DON'T own the other 53-1/2 gallons.
stephen


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I understand what Angus is saying. I partly agree. If you charge time and materials then the materials are the customers property, they bought it. 
On the other hand if you sell an entire job for one set price then I think the materials are not the customers property. It makes no difference what materials I use or how many different times I charge for them. The customer is paying a package price for a package deal.
Anyway thanks for the many differnt views. Carry on....


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

When I was siding full time we would always throw an extra box or two of siding and an extra box of J on the job. This way we always had enough. We might leave a few panels for repairs when we left or even a half a box if it was a large job.

That material isn't the customers unless negotiated before hand. This is in my contract. They paid for the job, not the material. On the next job I charge the customer to complete the job. If I have some left over material, the job will still cost the customer the same price per square. If it is a 22 square job, most likely I have figured heavy and they pay the total of my contract.

They don't pay less if it uses less, just as they don't pay more if my mistake causes it to use more.

If you are figuring so tight that 12 dollars for a half gallon of paint is typically figuring into your pricing, you are figuring too tight. 

Now if you have a half gallon left over and you are trying to save a customer money, or you know the contract is a tight one, that is different. 

I usually use those small left overs when I need it and didn't figure it in. I always keep a few tubes of caulk or quart of primer in my rig, among other things. Those aren't ever put in the bid. They are just consumables that help the job go easier. They are usually left overs.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Jeremy, you're going to be tearing the MickyD's employee a new one on the cost of your next Happy Meal, huh? :laughing:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I have a mics. fee that i charge for smalls like nail, screws, tape, caulk, etc. Too much of a pain to itemize all that. I just rough guess it and pad a little for something i may have forgot. An example would be installing a new service. I am not going to count how many screws i used for mounting and strapping, a piece of duct seal, a squeeze of caulk, couple feet of tape or a couple dabs of anit-corrosive grease. Instead i might pad the bill say $10 under a misc. fee. Did it cost me that, no, but i had it on hand and i did not charge the customer for each individual item as if it were new. I know some contractors charge for a new bottle of anti-corrosive grease, new tube of caulk, new roll of tape or new box of screws. This way the HO does not try to guess what you used that he paid for and may expect to keep themselves.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

J F said:


> Jeremy, you're going to be tearing the MickyD's employee a new one on the cost of your next Happy Meal, huh? :laughing:


How'd you know I like happy meals? Ya lost me on the rest of that...:001_unsure:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Leo G said:


> No. I don't think that way. The HO buys the job. If you have to get 6 boxes of tiles and it only takes 5 boxes and 1 tile out of the last box those tiles are not the HO's. They are extras.
> 
> If you are a nice guy you will leave them with the HO as extras in case one breaks you have the same lot.
> 
> ...


Wrong. The cost of all those tiles are paid for by the customer, not me. Those 6 boxes are the customer's tiles.

Besides, what the hell am I going to do with 7 "left over" tiles from a job? I've never had a job in my life where I could use 7 left over tiles. Sure, maybe in 8 months I'll have another customer want the same ones but hell if I'm using tiles from a different dye/lot. :no:



Stephen H said:


> go to Jiffy Lube and get your oil changed- the grease monkey pumps 6 quarts into your car out of a 55 gallon drum ?- you own those 6 quarts- you DON'T own the other 53-1/2 gallons.
> stephen


What kind of goofy example is that? If Jiffy Lube billed me for 55 gallons, they're mine. But instead, they bill me for 6 and give me 6.

If a customer wants 100 sq ft of tile but it only comes in lots of 30, they have to *BUY* 120. Do I keep the extra 20? No. I didn't buy it..._they_ paid for them.

What you guys are suggesting is basically stealing. You are charging a customer for more materials than you are using. I bet most of the time they are not even aware of that extra material either. That's deceit and theft when you don't tell them they paid for more than you used AND you kept that extra. Now if the customer is aware of this before they give you money, that's a different story. I mean seriously, what's the next argument; billing for labor you don't perform but it's OK because they paid for it in advance?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Leo G said:


> No. I don't think that way. The HO buys the job. If you have to get 6 boxes of tiles and it only takes 5 boxes and 1 tile out of the last box those tiles are not the HO's. They are extras.
> 
> If you are a nice guy you will leave them with the HO as extras in case one breaks you have the same lot.
> 
> ...


I don't get this...if you sold the job by the square foot yes you can keep the extra tiles...but if it is a T&M job and you billed the client for all the materials not leaving them all the material is theft.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Wrong. The cost of all those tiles are paid for by the customer, not me. Those 6 boxes are the customer's tiles.
> 
> Besides, what the hell am I going to do with 7 "left over" tiles from a job? I've never had a job in my life where I could use 7 left over tiles. Sure, maybe in 8 months I'll have another customer want the same ones but hell if I'm using tiles from a different dye/lot. :no:
> 
> ...


I agree IF you are billing Time and Materials. If you are selling a complete job though I disagree. In some shape or form all bids start with how long will it take and how much materials will I need. SO if you get done sooner than expected do you give the customer a discount? If not then that would be billing for labor not worked. At least that is how I'm reading your post.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> I agree IF you are billing Time and Materials. If you are selling a complete job though I disagree. In some shape or form all bids start with how long will it take and how much materials will I need. SO if you get done sooner than expected do you give the customer a discount? If not then that would be billing for labor not worked. At least that is how I'm reading your post.


No I bill piece work and my pricing schedule was made up of numbers I pulled from the air. :thumbup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Regardless of how the job is sold, if it's not explained to the customer that you are purchasing "extra" that they are paying for, you are being deceitful. If you keep that extra without notifying them and billing them for it, that's theft.

If you go to a gas station to fill up and pay via debt/credit card, you are authorized a specific amount before you fill up. In my bank's case it's $100. So because I am billed the $100 before I pump, does that mean the station keeps $25 if I only use $75? No.

If I go to the grocery store to buy peppers that are $2/lb, do they round up and bill me $6 if I only buy 2.5lbs? No. 

If you buy a CD and only listen to 1 song, does the artist/record company take back the other songs?

If you go to a baseball game and it gets rained out after 4 innings, don't you get something back (rain check, ticket to another game, etc)?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

You guys are too worried about clients/prospective clients reading your schtuff. :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

summithomeinc said:


> SO if you get done sooner than expected do you give the customer a discount?


No. I know how long it takes me to do my work. But I don't bill extra labor in just for the hell of it. I have a contract clause that states I don't know the status of items covered behind walls/under floors. Extra labor needed is billed as T&M as necessary. If it takes me 30 hours to do a shower, it's up to me to get it done within that time. If I get it done in 24, I screwed up on my labor pricing. If I get it done in 34, I screwed up on my labor pricing. That's experience and helps you bid properly. If I want more money, I charge more hourly, not add fake hours to a bid.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Regardless of how the job is sold, if it's not explained to the customer that you are purchasing "extra" that they are paying for, you are being deceitful. If you keep that extra without notifying them and billing them for it, that's theft.
> 
> If you go to a gas station to fill up and pay via debt/credit card, you are authorized a specific amount before you fill up. In my bank's case it's $100. So because I am billed the $100 before I pump, does that mean the station keeps $25 if I only use $75? No.
> 
> ...


The customer agrees to a fixed cost for a job. The "extra" comes out of my profit. They pay the same regardless if I buy extra or not. If it comes to that then my customers have paid for my vans, tools, motorcycles, beer, everything I have they paid for. They aint keeping any of it. It's mine. I guess we will just have to agree that we disagree.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

What happens if you miss and you are a box short? Are they going to pay for the missing box? No. They paid to get the job done.

I'm not saying to bid in an extra couple of boxes so I can do my entryway. I am saying I bid it to make sure that I have enough to do the job. Any extra material I bring in is to make sure I have enough. An extra sheet of material if I miscut, an extra couple of bundles of roofing to make sure I don't run out.

These amounts are usually included in my P+O and I buy them to make sure the job goes smoothly. For both me and the customer.

When I am bidding a job with 800 squares of material, I most definitely am charging the customer for some extra. Anybody would. Same goes for a smaller job, only in smaller amounts. Whether you put it in misc., or O+P it is in there.

In something like tile, you might be able to see exactly how much you are going to use. In other trades it is a bit harder. I might need 6 pieces of 1x6 for trim, I'll get an extra just in case. This has to be factored in. There is too much stress trying to make sure that you have the exact footage needed to do a job. I think most customers want you to just get the job done.

Besides, how does a customer know how much you bought anyway? Maybe you should let them know how much O+P you put in and see if they would rather you cut that instead.

I think it also has a lot to do with the type of job you are bidding. Most of my stuff is, "Hey, can you fix that. We're not really sure what's wrong with it, but would like a bid on it." This requires a bit more fudge factor. If it is something I do everyday, like a simple window reglazing, I can give a firm price with little or no oops factor figured in.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

J F said:


> You guys are too worried about clients/prospective clients reading your schtuff. :laughing:


I'm not worried about anything. I hope some prospective customers read this and realize that I don't deceive them with pricing. They pay for materials (most cost + 20% + delivery charge) and then those materials are theirs. If they don't want them and I have a use for them, I'll take them. Otherwise "extras" that were paid for by a customer stay with the customer.


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