# Festool Worth The Upgrade?



## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

Let me start by saying I do not want to start a brand war or anything, but I am interested in starting to acquire a few Festool items. The reason I am looking to invest in Festool is dust collection alone. Not because they are better quality this or that. I already have good quality versions of pretty much every tool I am interested in of theirs with the exception of the track saw.

The TS-55 REQ is the reason I am looking at getting into Festools. I would also get a CT Midi vac system to accompany this. The only reason I would go this route vs getting the Makita track saw is to get a good dust extraction setup to use with other tools also (Festool and other brands). So is it worth it for dust extraction alone to invest in "The System"? What tools are worth using dust extraction with (router, miter saw, jig saw)?

My current thoughts are getting these tools in the Festool lineup:

TS 55 track saw
ct midi
router? which one is recommended?
sander (don't use this tool much so not sure if its worth the upgrade)
domino?
any others???

I already have good routers, jig saws, sanders, a biscuit joiner so I am looking at where it is worth upgrading these tools primarily for dust collection. Or can I use the existing tools with the CT Midi?


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## tutone (Nov 10, 2014)

*Love Festool*

Love my Festool ac and sanders / grinders for working on log homes. The Festools are easier to work with, save $ on disks, and the vac is the best ever!


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## rondon (Feb 10, 2010)

I don't use my router that much, but I do love the 1400. At times the hose will plug but it sure does keep the dust down.

I also have the 55 track saw. Was at one of their training classes the first part of Dec and Brain gave us an example of the dust collection.
He had the 75 saw that was battery operated with its own dust bag attached right to the saw. No vac attached. He cut a strip off an 8 ft length of plywood. When emptied the bad he had a good cup full of saw dust collected. Never would of guessed that it prevented that much dust from flying into the air.

I also have the Kapex hooked up their ct36. You will get a little dust falling straight down, but again you will not have dust flying in the air. Not afraid to set it up in a finished room and use it and not worry about dust everywhere.

Same can be said about their sanders.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

Start with the track saw at vac, and upgrade as you need. Their sanders are very good at collecting the dust, though. Routers are supposed to have good collection, and have a lot of cool accessories, but I don't have any experience with them personally.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

The sanders are great. I have the ro125 and ets125 and am planning on picking up a detail sander at some point. It's great being able to sand inside and not have to wear a mask. You can sand all day and not have any dust on you.

I'd like to pick up a 1400 router at some point too. I just bought a makita that had dc hookup, but it's completely useless in that regard.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I like my of 1400, but I never hook it up to my ct. The hose is mostly a pia to deal with.

It does get a lot of the chips though.


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## Jaxyaks (Nov 7, 2014)

You can use their vac with other tools, plug the tool into the vac and turn the vac to auto and it will work the same as it does with the Festools. We have a couple of sanders, and the t55 and a pair of midis. We use the Midi's hooked up it the dewalt mitre and portable table saw all the time


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

I did the jump you are thinking for the same reason .I would say in it has been well worth it ,it all works well ,saves time etc . I use the 55 way more then the 75 . I have the 1400 router also,do not know what there comparing dust collection on it to but to me it is like an add on feature . i have a dewalt plunge with much better collection .I probable have 1400$ into the 1400 with all the attachments and it is a good router ,But i hear the other ones have better features.The vacuums do not fall over , my mini can plug the hose[i have the old one] but does an excellent job with sanders . I have both of the Domino's -do not know what you do or how you work but they have been extremely valuable .There are more powerful and faster sanders out there but these are good well made machines .Once I went down the dust collection road it becomes more and more important .oh kapex and dust collection -it's ok ,I taped flaps on my dewalt mitersaw and it does just as good a job . I now do less trim and more general carpentry ,i have 3 vacs ,two trac saws ,kapex ,2 sanders ,the 1400 router and both dominos . if i can help with info ask .
Like most people i have many other brands .It is not the end all and when i saw Mafell tools I new festool was not the best .


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## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

Jaxyaks said:


> You can use their vac with other tools, plug the tool into the vac and turn the vac to auto and it will work the same as it does with the Festools. We have a couple of sanders, and the t55 and a pair of midis. We use the Midi's hooked up it the dewalt mitre and portable table saw all the time


Do you trip the breakers much? I think my table saw and my miter saws are all 15 amps. I don't see too many 20 amp plugs as compared to 15 amp.


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

If i could go back in time I'd own less Festool gear. Its all great but dang I blew some dough! 

Buy and return if you don't feel it.


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## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

duburban said:


> If i could go back in time I'd own less Festool gear. Its all great but dang I blew some dough!
> 
> Buy and return if you don't feel it.


Which would you say are worth it vs. owning the competition?

Looking at the online catalog, it seems they really get you with all the accessories and such


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The DC on the OF2200 is fantastic and well thought, but it a beast of a router.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The DC on the OF2200 is fantastic and well thought, but it a beast of a router.




That thing looks like it's the size of r2d2


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

> The TS-55 REQ is the reason I am looking at getting into Festools. I would also get a CT Midi vac system to accompany this. The only reason I would go this route vs getting the Makita track saw is to get a good dust extraction setup to use with other tools also (Festool and other brands). So is it worth it for dust extraction alone to invest in "The System"?


If dust collection is your primary reason for going festool I would look at other options. The Festool CT vacs are good but they are no better than the Bosch or Makita.
BUT
Festool seems to forster Pride. 
Pride in ownership. 
Pride in your onsite setup. 
Pride in keeping your josite clean. 

People as a rule cherish what costs them and the green koolaid is not cheap. Now I am not saying this is universal and I am a good five years past my crazy love affair. But going with Festool and Systainers and Dust control Played a huge role in how I approach projects in peoples homes.

Festool's impact on how we work and how tools are designed based on : organization, system, and dust control is seen by how the competition has responded with Lboxx, Tstack. . . new vacs and dust collection ports that work.

Is Festool worth the premium? The final fit and finish is awesome. The resale value is crazy. The customer service outstanding. However a lot of their leading edge ideas (not referring to tools and their accessories) can be found elsewhere and maybe even in an improved form.


Thanks for letting me ramble.


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

bcradio said:


> Which would you say are worth it vs. owning the competition?
> 
> Looking at the online catalog, it seems they really get you with all the accessories and such


The track saws are a no brainer. The domino is unique if you do that type of work enough, just like the OF1010 and LR32 setup. 

I'd spend my money again on any/all of the sanders (ro150 first) and the track saw setup with a MIDI vac. Between that saw and the sanders your into "game changer" territory already.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I have been eyeing the RO90dx looks like a great multiple use tool only thing bugging me is the size. Of the work surface. I have the track saw and it's is a wonderful tool. The makita is more powerful but not reallya ssystem to build onto. The cost difference was little.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I have the vac,track saw, Kapex w/cart and the RO150 sander. Recently built some 17' box beams for a ceiling application and the RO150 was amazing as I used it to scribe the joint of the box to the ceiling. I use to use a Bosch 6" random orbital sander and it wouldn't have done this job in 3 times the amount of time. 

I do really like the track saw but am disappointed that it is not labeled in inches for cutting, but the track saw is a necessary tool for my mobile shop. Even when I had a large shop w/ a table saw, the tracksaw was the go-to tool for making consistently straight cuts on sheet goods. 

Two examples of how upgrading has been 'worth' it to me. 

I use a router so infrequently, the old Bosch 1617 is paid for and performs well enough.Maybe you would get more use out of it, and if you have the mount for the track saw, it may help you that much more.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

@72chevy4x4 buy one of the stick on labels from Ebay for your saw. I did it a couple years ago. It is a great improvement for us here in the States.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Mine came with an imperial label in the box


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

aaron_a said:


> Mine came with an imperial label in the box


You have an R, 4x4 may have the E. The E did not have an imperial label and the R label will not work on it. There may be an user designed sticker as over mentioned.

After 1 cut you should know know where to set the depth. 3/4 sheet set the depth 26-28 mm.

Tom


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

72chevy4x4 said:


> I do really like the track saw but am disappointed that it is not labeled in inches for cutting, but the track saw is a necessary tool for my mobile shop. Even when I had a large shop w/ a table saw, the tracksaw was the go-to tool for making consistently straight cuts on sheet goods.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Festool-Imp...-OF1400-Router-White-LABEL-KIT-/121524824675?

I need to get some of these too:thumbsup:


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

The dust collection is outstanding, but not 100%. The tracksaw, sanders, and domino have been moneymakers for me.


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## ltjco (Apr 16, 2011)

I would defiantly recommend any festool product. I have;
18+3 drill
150 sander
Carvex D handle jigsaw
55 track saw
And I use all these tools with my old shop vac and seems to do pretty well. I'll be buying a midi vac this week I believe, but I've always been one to buy good quality tools makita, dewalt etc. because I believe the better the tool, the easier its is to deliver a quality product to my clients. But I will say that festool is a step above any other quality tool on the market other than mafell.


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## ltjco (Apr 16, 2011)

Another thing is that the systainers help with organization and time is money.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

ltjco said:


> I would defiantly recommend any festool product. I have;
> 18+3 drill
> 150 sander
> Carvex D handle jigsaw
> ...


Is the latest Midi real HEPA 99.9 or just a Hepa filter?


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## ltjco (Apr 16, 2011)

Honestly I'm not to sure about that. They advertise it as hepa, but not sure about the details


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## MDjim (Mar 15, 2011)

I have the Ts 55 req, kapex, ct 26 and the cxs drill. I've never regretted spending the money and it's been almost 3 years. As has already been said, just using them really changes your approach to how you work in people's homes, and the customers are always impressed by how neat the work area stays. I definitely plan on adding to the collection.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Tom M said:


> Is the latest Midi real HEPA 99.9 or just a Hepa filter?


Full HEPA. Certified for RRP work. 

Tom


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## imdskydiver (Apr 19, 2011)

If you go with a vacuum you will want to hook it to everything , sliders , table saws and track saws , the slider vacuum combo as well as the table saw combo uses ton of power. A 15 amp circuit will barely handle the job and if you are push it hard you will blow the fuse. Add a few more trades working on the same job and you will have everyone pissed.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

imdskydiver said:


> If you go with a vacuum you will want to hook it to everything , sliders , table saws and track saws , the slider vacuum combo as well as the table saw combo uses ton of power. A 15 amp circuit will barely handle the job and if you are push it hard you will blow the fuse. Add a few more trades working on the same job and you will have everyone pissed.


You need only to shout "Festool On!" just before you start the tool. Out of deep respect they will halt their work until you are done.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I believe the Domino will be a money-maker for me too when the right job comes along. The box beam job would have been perfect-bet it could have saved a few hours. The 500 is on my wish list.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

72chevy4x4 said:


> I believe the Domino will be a money-maker for me too when the right job comes along. The box beam job would have been perfect-bet it could have saved a few hours. The 500 is on my wish list.


The Domino is the one tool for which I don't think there's a near equivalent.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The midi dust extraction works just as effective with the Makita, the hose fits just the same and picks up the dust just the same as well. I have both saws. The Makita has noticeably more power then the ts55. The ts55 can be used with other festool accessories though, where the Makita is limited to working with the dust extraction, and very well I must say.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

When using the 1400 like this the vac doesn't work worth a chit. End up just not using it at all. It was more a pain then it was useful.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> When using the 1400 like this the vac doesn't work worth a chit. End up just not using it at all. It was more a pain then it was useful.


Was the lower chip collector on the 1400?

Tom


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

tjbnwi said:


> Was the lower chip collector on the 1400?
> 
> Tom


I think I had the collector on, but the composite chips were just too big for it. But to be fair it also had a bushing guide on it. I want to say even without the bushing guide those chips were just too big. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome router and those chips would've been to big for any of them. I vacuumed them as I went to keep the chips out of the pool.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I had a problem with dust collection with the 1400. Don't think it was the CT's or 1400's fault.

I've never routed composites with the 1400. Maybe the 2200 would be better, the extraction on that is awesome. 

Tom


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

tjbnwi said:


> I had a problem with dust collection with the 1400. Don't think it was the CT's or 1400's fault.
> 
> I've never routed composites with the 1400. Maybe the 2200 would be better, the extraction on that is awesome.
> 
> Tom


I probably should of bought the 2200 in hindsight, but the 1400 is such a more useful size for other things I chose it instead. I still may purchase the 2200 for my next radiused deck.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Look for the 2200's used. The 3 I have were purchased used, I don't think they had more than a few hours each on them. One still had the film on the bottom plate. I don't have the cost of 2 in the 3. Was going to pass on the third but the price came down to where I couldn't pass it up.

Tom


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## bbgcarpentry (Apr 11, 2009)

JFM constr said:


> I did the jump you are thinking for the same reason .I would say in it has been well worth it ,it all works well ,saves time etc . I use the 55 way more then the 75 . I have the 1400 router also,do not know what there comparing dust collection on it to but to me it is like an add on feature . i have a dewalt plunge with much better collection .I probable have 1400$ into the 1400 with all the attachments and it is a good router ,But i hear the other ones have better features.The vacuums do not fall over , my mini can plug the hose[i have the old one] but does an excellent job with sanders . I have both of the Domino's -do not know what you do or how you work but they have been extremely valuable .There are more powerful and faster sanders out there but these are good well made machines .Once I went down the dust collection road it becomes more and more important .oh kapex and dust collection -it's ok ,I taped flaps on my dewalt mitersaw and it does just as good a job . I now do less trim and more general carpentry ,i have 3 vacs ,two trac saws ,kapex ,2 sanders ,the 1400 router and both dominos . if i can help with info ask .
> Like most people i have many other brands .It is not the end all and when i saw Mafell tools I new festool was not the best .


What mafell
stuff do you have


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## jct3 (Dec 29, 2014)

I looked at Mafell track saw briefly before picking up the TS55REQ, but their presence here in the US is pretty small (one dealer). The extra features didn't seem worth it for me, and the warranty on the Festools are pretty unbeatable (free shipping both ways, 24-48 hrs on repair).


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

re: chip collection w/ composite decking, do you believe it was a matter of the material or could have slowing down the speed or shallower passes have made a difference?


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

bbgcarpentry said:


> What mafell
> stuff do you have


do not own any .when in Germany I got myself to a tool store . It was eye opening to see festool next to mafell.They struck me as several big steps up . Here in the states I found the inability to actual pick one up and see it before purchase made the jump to hard .But they do have the stuff .Another thing I saw in the tool store in germany[a few years back now] besides festool track saws there was another brand that was seemly equal in quality .I did not spend alot of time looking at it -that mafell stuff had my attention .The mechanics on them were so nice .struck me as a saw you hand down generations .


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

72chevy4x4 said:


> re: chip collection w/ composite decking, do you believe it was a matter of the material or could have slowing down the speed or shallower passes have made a difference?


I tried all that. There wasn't enough room for it to get through. I should be able to Take the pass the blade would handle, not the vacuum will handle. However i tried all of it. You need the high speed for that material. There nothing that would of worked. It certainly wasn't user error.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

i had trouble with composit and dust collection also .would plug up mitersaw . i had kapex hooked to a big ridged with a dust deputy in between . just so many shavings .Besides the router often plugging I find using hand planers a bit overwhelming for the vacuums also .
but still dust collection is so so worth it .


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

JFM constr said:


> i had trouble with composit and dust collection also .would plug up mitersaw . i had kapex hooked to a big ridged with a dust deputy in between . just so many shavings .Besides the router often plugging I find using hand planers a bit overwhelming for the vacuums also .
> but still dust collection is so so worth it .


Absolutely, I don't fault festool at all. It's just the nature of the beast. (Composite)


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## mattsk8 (Dec 6, 2009)

I haven't really read through this thread, just the OP's original post. But yes, absolutely it's worth the upgrade IMO. I might bump the size of your dust collector up (I have the CT-26 IIRC). I have the tracksaw and 3 of their sanders and absolutely love them, worth every dollar to me. The sanders don't just excel in terms of dust collection, they also work phenomenally. I'm sure I'll start a war with this but I also have a 5" Mirka Ceros and while it's smaller, I by far and away like my Festool sanders better. Once you plug the vacuum hose into the Mirka, it's almost too light and the hose gets more annoying because the sander is so light; with the Festool sanders that isn't an issue for me. Plus I hate the way the hose connects to the Ceros, and the Festool has better dust collection than the Ceros.

I haven't seen a good reason to purchase any Festool routers for me though. I have a Dewalt DW621 plunge that I love (it actually has respectable dust collection too but I'm sure Festool's is better), a 611PK plunge/fixed, and a Rigid trim router that all do what I need them to do. If I did more laminate I'd definitely get the MFK700, it looks incredible for laminate, plus it won't make the mess I generally do with the Rigid. But I avoid laminate for the most part.

I've also considered the Domino, but I have a PC and the Dewalt biscuit joiners and those work too well to justify that expense to me as well.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

charimon said:


> If dust collection is your primary reason for going festool I would look at other options. The Festool CT vacs are good but they are no better than the Bosch or Makita.
> BUT
> Festool seems to forster Pride.
> Pride in ownership.
> ...


What about the self cleaning filter? I've not used any of the high end vacs, but I would think that the self cleaning filter would be a huge plus.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Or using the dust deputy to save the bags for fine dust but then your dragging around something eles.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Dustd eputy aint safe to use with the festool vacs. the static from them can kill the electronics in the vacs.


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## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

Thank you for all the replies everyone. It looks like an overwhelming yes to make the jump to Festool, BUT only start with the CT and the TS-55 REQ and get more as seen fit. I will probably look at the sanders/domino/router as the next purchase if I decide I need to.

I looked at some of the other brands dust collectors and they seem to cost as much as Festool, so might as well stick with them.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My favorite thing about the midi, is how quiet it is.


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## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

Are there any reusable bags for the Midi available?


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

bcradio said:


> Are there any reusable bags for the Midi available?



Not available in North America I do t believe. There is a bag but the dealers in US don't seem to have it. One of the senior festool guys might know something different.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

tjbnwi said:


> Look for the 2200's used. The 3 I have were purchased used, I don't think they had more than a few hours each on them. One still had the film on the bottom plate. I don't have the cost of 2 in the 3. Was going to pass on the third but the price came down to where I couldn't pass it up.
> 
> Tom


Where do you find all of these used 2200's


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

One came from the Classified at FOG, Craigslist for the other 2.

Tom


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## bbgcarpentry (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks


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## mattsk8 (Dec 6, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> My favorite thing about the midi, is how quiet it is.


Aren't they all that quiet? When I first fire my saw or sander up I usually stop to make sure the CT26 is actually running cuz I can't hear it.


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## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

Here are the tools/accessories I plan to purchase with the track saw:


TS 55 REQ
CT Midi
55" Track with holes
2 rail connectors
2 clamps
32" track or 42" track (which is more useful?)

What other accessories should I get?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

bcradio said:


> Here are the tools/accessories I plan to purchase with the track saw:
> 
> 
> TS 55 REQ
> ...


Just pay the little difference to swap the regular rail for the holy rail, skip the connectors and the other short rails snd buy the 3000mm rail. 

I would also suggest buying the 24t universal blade.


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## bcradio (Apr 3, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Just pay the little difference to swap the regular rail for the holy rail, skip the connectors and the other short rails snd buy the 3000mm rail.
> 
> I would also suggest buying the 24t universal blade.


The long rail would be hard to store and haul though was what I was thinking.


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## Gumphri (May 17, 2014)

-Vacuum
-saw
-32" track for countertops and small cuts(my goto track for millwork installs)
-55"(and yes swap for the holed one) for longer cuts
-95" or whatever fits in your automobile. Because the shop has a CNC we don't do a lot of cutting full sheets but for those that do I think you want to have one track(or 2 joined) just over 8' and a 55 for breaking down stock. 
-a couple different blades suited for what your cutting. Blade changes are easy and well worth it to save the life of the blade if you cut a lot of different materials like we do. I've got the 24t, the one it comes with and the Corian one.
-a table with a surface you can cut. What size and shape depends on your space considerations and intended workflow. 

I recently bought a 12' 35mm? hose to hook my vac to my scm and table saw. I think I liked the smaller one on the track saw.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

I kept my 55 and bought a 75" rail when I bought my saw. At the time all I had was a short bed pickup so I couldn't carry around a longer track. I haven't had any problems with the connectors yet. I should have bought a holey track though. Maybe when I pick up an mft I'll swap out a holey one.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Totally agree with warner. If you don't you'll feel like you wasted your money when you end up buying the 3000 anyway


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