# Caterpillar employee incinerated



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Caterpillar employee ‘incinerated’ in iron vat on second week of work: feds

"Equipment company Caterpillar is facing a six-figure fine after a federal investigation revealed grisly new details about the death of an Illinois foundry employee who was “immediately incinerated” in a vat of iron on just his ninth day on the job in June."









Caterpillar employee ‘incinerated’ in iron vat on second week of work: feds


Melting specialist Steven Dierkes was on his ninth day of work at Caterpillar’s Mapleton foundry when he fell into an 11-foot-deep vat of iron.




nypost.com






Mike.
*___*


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## META (Apr 9, 2015)

At least it was quick. 

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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Years ago a guy was walking a wood walkway over a hot acid vat when it broke and he fell in.

These types of accidents seem very preventable


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## RacinMason (Oct 26, 2017)

Damn.....I'll bet attorneys are lined up for this one.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Wow. Condolences to his family.

150k seems like a slap on the wrist if it really was as egregious as it sounds.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

MarkJames said:


> Wow. Condolences to his family.
> 
> 150k seems like a slap on the wrist if it really was as egregious as it sounds.


A fine paid to the us government isn’t going to bring the guy back or help his family.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Big Johnson said:


> A fine paid to the us government isn’t going to bring the guy back or help his family.


Agreed but large fines forces employers to abide By the rules so it doesn’t happen again to someone else 


His family will sue the company and I’m sure (hopefully) will get a substantial settlement 


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Windycity said:


> Agreed but large fines forces employers to abide By the rules so it doesn’t happen again to someone else
> 
> 
> His family will sue the company and I’m sure (hopefully) will get a substantial settlement
> ...


The money should go to the family or another good cause instead of having the government piss it awayin minutes


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

He'll get plenty of sympathy here. Were he an illegal alien roofer, he'd be told nobody forced him to take a 100K-a-year-job with no guardrails and it was his right to choose to work without them.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

hdavis said:


> Years ago a guy was walking a wood walkway over a hot acid vat when it broke and he fell in.
> 
> These types of accidents seem very preventable


If only he had tied off.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Windycity said:


> Agreed but large fines forces employers to abide By the rules so it doesn’t happen again to someone else
> 
> 
> His family will sue the company and I’m sure (hopefully) will get a substantial settlement
> ...



In Texas they would get the settlement from the workers' comp ans pay the osha fines. Bring in a safety expert. That's it. Unless it was shown to be extremely negligible as in he was pushed. I've seen people die on job sites where there was no workers comp may not get a fine from Osha, And I have seen big companies have employee deaths and not pay a settlement. That's the point of worker's compensation. 

A dude named Franky I knew pretty well fell 18 ft off a scaffold, hit the slab on his back and died the next day. 1099 hand, nothing to nobody on fines or settlements. 

"If they have Texas Workers' Compensation they are protected from a lawsuit even if they are negligent, except as noted below. *If an employee is killed by the gross negligence of their employer then their spouse and children can sue and collect punitive damages." *

The above is very hard to prove in my expeiremce and most lawyers wont take it contignecy so unless they have money it wont happen


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Unless it was Gross negligence even in this state his family would recieve WC death benefits. I think it's 360k. 

It's going to be an uphill battle to prove Gross negligence vs. Just negligence. 

My guess is the company will settle before it gets to court. It's really bad publicity to fight that.


Mike.
*___*


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## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Man, that is a helluva way to go.
I feel for his family.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

META said:


> At least it was quick.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Unlike the guy that fell in the vat of beer at the brewery.


That poor guy got out to use the restroom four times.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Joe Fairplay said:


> If only he had tied off.


Huh?


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

hdavis said:


> Huh?


In the industry we call them fall arrest systems.
You tie off and don't fall into vats of acid when using them.


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## FEW (Jul 3, 2017)

I remember this incident when it happened. Official COD " Thermal Annihilation ". Instantaneous and painless. Supposedly went in headfirst, but his legs fell off outside the vat. I'm not sure how, but they were able to recover some remains after emptying it.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

...


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Joe Fairplay said:


> In the industry we call them fall arrest systems.
> You tie off and don't fall into vats of acid when using them.


I guess dangling in hot acid fumes would be a way better death.


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## META (Apr 9, 2015)

I remember reading a scientific account of what it might have been like at Pompeii. They speculated that the hot air cooked people and likely exploded heads from steaming brains. 



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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

rrk said:


> The money should go to the family or another good cause instead of having the government piss it awayin minutes


It’s no different than a police officer writing a ticket to a person that caused a vehicle accident


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

META said:


> I remember reading a scientific account of what it might have been like at Pompeii. They speculated that the hot air cooked people and likely exploded heads from steaming brains.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


FUN FACT: I visited Pompeii in 2007. The place was completely overrun by homeless dogs. I mean everywhere. Strangest thing I ever seen in such a touristy place.
An awesome place to see, a step back in time that was very well preserved.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Big Johnson said:


> A fine paid to the us government isn’t going to bring the guy back or help his family.


The theory is the fine is what funds the enforcement arm but graft and corruption just takes the money and enforcement always lacks resources.


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## META (Apr 9, 2015)

Joe Fairplay said:


> FUN FACT: I visited Pompeii in 2007. The place was completely overrun by homeless dogs. I mean everywhere. Strangest thing I ever seen in such a touristy place.
> An awesome place to see, a step back in time that was very well preserved.


And covered in feces...

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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Big Johnson said:


> A fine paid to the us government isn’t going to bring the guy back or help his family.


No, but it can help others avoid a similar fate. It's all part of the calculus of running a company. And the actuaries who work on their behalf are thrilled, as far as the numbers go.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Windycity said:


> It’s no different than a police officer writing a ticket to a person that caused a vehicle accident
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was thinking of trades working in the cities and the amount of parking tickets they get. Just a part of doing business, and it's factored into the overall cost.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

MarkJames said:


> I was thinking of trades working in the cities and the amount of parking tickets they get. Just a part of doing business, and it's factored into the overall cost.


Yes but when the family sues caterpillar the osha violation and fine will help prove the company was Negligent


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Windycity said:


> Yes but when the family sues caterpillar the osha violation and fine will help prove the company was Negligent
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It can be said all accidents are negligent to a certain degree.


Mike.
*___*


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Windycity said:


> It’s no different than a police officer writing a ticket to a person that caused a vehicle accident
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


and so?


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Calidecks said:


> It can be said all accidents are negligent to a certain degree.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


Absolutely, if you think about it there really is no “accidents” 

but the most important question after an incident like this is who was negligent? And how much responsibility does each party bear?

This osha fine proves it was the company’s fault that they did not properly train, protect and provide the proper safety gear and working environment to prevent this employee from falling and getting killed 


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

As a side note, OSHA may not be able to identify a way to be compliant.


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

It is possible, that the dude was dorking around acting stupid and it is entirely his fault. 

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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Lettusbee said:


> It is possible, that the dude was dorking around acting stupid and it is entirely his fault.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Considering that he was a new employee I would guess that it was a lack of training and supervision 




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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Windycity said:


> Considering that he was a new employee I would guess that it was a lack of training and supervision


Training Manual: Walkways above acid vats. DO NOT fall off walkways into vats of acid, it may adversely affect your health.


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Windycity said:


> Considering that he was a new employee I would guess that it was a lack of training and supervision
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Likely, just throwing that out there. Like a guy I used to work with that liked to try and launch the snorkel lift over a small embankment.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Lettusbee said:


> Likely, just throwing that out there. Like a guy I used to work with that liked to try and launch the snorkel lift over a small embankment.


Oh come on. Like you never tried to do a wheelie with a snorkel.


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Joe Fairplay said:


> Oh come on. Like you never tried to do a wheelie with a snorkel.


Ya caught me.
It was me.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Joe Fairplay said:


> Oh come on. Like you never tried to do a wheelie with a snorkel.


Not over a huge thing of molten steel!

Lmfao 


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Windycity said:


> Absolutely, if you think about it there really is no “accidents”
> 
> but the most important question after an incident like this is who was negligent? And how much responsibility does each party bear?
> 
> ...


If the family can't prove Gross negligence (deliberate disregard) in most states, they are only entitled to a WC payout. 


Mike.
*___*


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Workers' compensation laws in California require employers to pay for employee injuries regardless of who was at fault. In return, employers are immune from personal injury lawsuits from workers in a majority of situations.


Mike.
*___*


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Calidecks said:


> Even if they didn’t intend to cause harm, the person responsible for the accident might still be legally responsible for the damage caused.


So you finally agree with me using your own citation?
The word intent appears only once and it appears to make clear that intent has nothing to do with Negligence or Gross Negligence.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Calidecks said:


> What exactly is gross negligence?


Note the word intent does not even appear in this explanation.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Joe Fairplay said:


> So you finally agree with me using your own citation?
> The word intent appears only once and it appears to make clear that intent has nothing to do with Negligence or Gross Negligence.


That means they are guilty of simple negligence. That's been my point from the beginning. You are acting on the emotional aspect.


Mike.
*___*


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I can gaurantee you if someone gets injured on the Job and it can be proven the employer intentionally harmed the employee that would not only be a crime but certainly gross negligence.


Mike.
*___*


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Calidecks said:


> That means they are guilty of simple negligence. That's been my point from the beginning. You are acting on the emotional aspect.





Calidecks said:


> Reckless means I'll intent. You'd be hard pressed to show Caterpillar intended on that guy getting hurt.


Come on man. You were arguing that Reckless means intent.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Calidecks said:


> I can gaurantee you if someone gets injured on the Job and it can be proven the employer intentionally harmed the employee that would not only be a crime but certainly gross negligence.


Both intent to cause harm and gross negligence should be crimes.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Calidecks said:


> The results of deliberately or intentionally has nothing to do with the meaning of either word.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


In real life maybe. In the court room it's going to win or lose the case.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

That would be criminal negligence. 


Mike.
*___*


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Leo G said:


> In real life maybe. In the court room it's going to win or lose the case.


Not forcing someone to wear fall protection can EASILY be shown to be just negligent and a far cry from gross negligence. 


Mike.
*___*


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## Fourthgeneration (Jul 25, 2021)

My


rrk said:


> The money should go to the family or another good cause instead of having the government piss it awayin minutes


My state OSHA is self funded, so the fines come fast and heavy.....


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I'll bet gross negligence is demonstrated, unless there's a big fat settlement before it gets to that.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My guess is the most common cause of workplace injury is falling. Not seeing that coinciding with defendants getting more than WC death benefits of that state.


Mike.
*___*


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Joe Fairplay said:


> Try a legal dictionary not Websters.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black%27s_Law_Dictionary


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

I bet he signed something saying he knew where fall protection was and how to use it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I bet he signed something saying he knew where fall protection was and how to use it.


Come on man he had no responsibility for his own safety. The CEO belongs in prison. Lol


Mike.
*___*


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I bet he signed something saying he knew where fall protection was and how to use it.


Apparently the company didn’t have the required guard rails installed

Regardless, Proper training and employee acknowledgment of said training doesn’t fully alleviate the company of responsibility 


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Windycity said:


> Apparently the company didn’t have the required guard rails installed
> 
> Regardless, Proper training and employee acknowledgment of said training doesn’t fully alleviate the company of responsibility
> 
> ...


I know that....I still bet he signed something saying he knew better though.


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## Platesurfer (Feb 9, 2019)

A bit late to the game here but there's no excuse for accidents like this. This is a controlled factory environment and systems need to be in place to prevent such extreme injuries/certain death... 

I beg for a bit of slack in residential homebuilding environments but you can bet if we were stuck working over a 2000F VAT OF MOLTEN IRON safety would be 100% by the book no exceptions. 

A big dog like Caterpillar should be seeing a 7-8 figure fine for something like this to really drive the point. Unless this guy essentially committed suicide. 

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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I know that....I still bet he signed something saying he knew better though.


I know for a fact that the railroad keeps and documents every bit of training materials that I am “required” to take

It’s All for liability I’m sure

Just like every year we have to do the EEOC, sexual-harassment and discrimination training videos


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Platesurfer said:


> A big dog like Caterpillar should be seeing a 7-8 figure fine for something like this to really drive the point. Unless this guy essentially committed suicide.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


Hell, even the factories in China installed suicide nets to keep their employees for committing suicide from the miserable working conditions!!

lol 


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