# WTF is this?



## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> In their utopia world it comes from solar or PV panels.



What happens in California during a rolling blackout? Do you have to wait to charge your car if you are on the road and need to get somewhere?


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Robie said:


> What happens in California during a rolling blackout? Do you have to wait to charge your car if you are on the road and need to get somewhere?


Comon man get real!!!! You'd need to carry a bike thingy with you that you could plug into the crank the peddles to charge it up.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Robie said:


> Where does the power come from to charge the battery?


Same place my lights come from, my panel box.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Robie said:


> What happens in California during a rolling blackout? Do you have to wait to charge your car if you are on the road and need to get somewhere?


I guess I have to wait just like like you would, unless their is some illegal immigrant working a hand pump to get your fuel up out of the tank in the ground.


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## rescraft (Nov 28, 2007)

83% of people with an EV, have solar on their roofs. Many added the panels after they bought their vehicles.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Robie said:


> Where does the power come from to charge the battery?


magic.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

So with the push for EVs have they come up with a plan for the road tax?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Of course. And it will be more than necessary and will be siphoned off into other pet projects and they will claim the tax is insufficient.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Our state wants to implement a miles tax.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

We have a lot of EVs here. it's really hard to drive over 150 miles in a day. Those fancy Teslas are everywhere.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

VinylHanger said:


> Our state wants to implement a miles tax.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



I'll bet after they do, you will be paying 2-4x as much as you were paying at the pump tax.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Pump tax will probably go up to with the excuse , not as many people are using fuel so need to raise it to pay for the road.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

We pay the pump tax and our registration goes by the weight of the auto. My work van cost over 500$ a year in registration fee. Other wise known as the vehicle tax.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

Leo G said:


> Coal powered plant probably.


Coal is on the way out. Not just because there's more renewable power now, but because natural gas got cheap. 
Also, depends on where you live. TVA, Hoover Dam, most of the PNW are all hydro which is dirt cheap and "green" though that was an afterthought when it was built.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

That car is pretty fugly. It looks like the designers of the Escape got in a fight with the Tesla designers and they both lost.
But since I was on the website, did you see that they're coming out with an Electric Transit? 126 mile range. Yeah, "Here in Texamontanapalachia that's the distance to my neighbor" but for most of us it's plenty.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> We have a lot of EVs here. it's really hard to drive over 150 miles in a day. Those fancy Teslas are everywhere.


Tesla's around here are almost a dime a dozen. Then I found out there is a "dealership", if you can call it that, right in Lawrenceville, NJ.
I have had customers that owned them and they run from extreme right to extreme left. Go figure.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

SPG said:


> Coal is on the way out. Not just because there's more renewable power now, but because natural gas got cheap.
> Also, depends on where you live. TVA, Hoover Dam, most of the PNW are all hydro which is dirt cheap and "green" though that was an afterthought when it was built.


I was being facetious. 

Lighten up Francis


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

SPG said:


> Coal is on the way out. Not just because there's more renewable power now, but because natural gas got cheap.
> Also, depends on where you live. TVA, Hoover Dam, most of the PNW are all hydro which is dirt cheap and "green" though that was an afterthought when it was built.


Somebody better tell other countries. Building coal plants as fast as they can.



> Reports of the ‘death’ of coal have been greatly exaggerated, with the economic powerhouses of Asia – China, Japan and India – building new plants hand over fist.
> 
> The pattern across Asia is unmistakable; unreliable wind and solar have been snubbed in favour of coal-fired power plants, with new nuclear plants running a close second.
> 
> Don Dears takes a look at the resurgence of coal as the power source of choice in any country serious about delivering reliable and affordable electricity to businesses and households.











Coal Rush: China, Japan & India Back Coal-Fired Future With Hundreds of New Plants


Reports of the ‘death’ of coal have been greatly exaggerated, with the economic powerhouses of Asia – China, Japan and India – building new plants hand over fist. The pattern across Asi…




stopthesethings.com


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

*only going up*


STATEJUNE 2018JUNE 2017MOVEMENTCHANGE (%)*Alabama*12.41¢ / kWh12.79¢ / kWhDOWN-2.971 %*Alaska*22.54¢ / kWh22.14¢ / kWhUP1.806 %*Arizona*13.16¢ / kWh12.65¢ / kWhUP4.031 %*Arkansas*9.99¢ / kWh10.73¢ / kWhDOWN-6.896 %*California*19.90¢ / kWh19.39¢ / kWhUP2.630 %*Colorado*12.28¢ / kWh12.75¢ / kWhDOWN-3.686 %*Connecticut*21.62¢ / kWh20.47¢ / kWhUP5.617 %*DC*13.21¢ / kWh13.40¢ / kWhDOWN-1.417 %*Delaware*12.05¢ / kWh12.59¢ / kWhDOWN-4.289 %*Florida*11.37¢ / kWh12.02¢ / kWhDOWN-5.407 %*Georgia*12.26¢ / kWh12.53¢ / kWhDOWN-2.154 %*Hawaii*32.76¢ / kWh30.45¢ / kWhUP7.586 %*Idaho*10.58¢ / kWh11.42¢ / kWhDOWN-7.355 %*Illinois*12.56¢ / kWh12.95¢ / kWhDOWN-3.011 %*Indiana*12.02¢ / kWh12.05¢ / kWhDOWN-0.248 %*Iowa*13.81¢ / kWh13.92¢ / kWhDOWN-0.790 %*Kansas*11.56¢ / kWh13.56¢ / kWhDOWN-14.74 %*Kentucky*10.56¢ / kWh10.68¢ / kWhDOWN-1.123 %*Louisiana*9.37¢ / kWh10.19¢ / kWhDOWN-8.047 %*Maine*16.16¢ / kWh16.17¢ / kWhDOWN-0.061 %*Maryland*13.92¢ / kWh14.22¢ / kWhDOWN-2.109 %*Massachusetts*21.11¢ / kWh18.56¢ / kWhUP13.73 %*Michigan*16.07¢ / kWh15.86¢ / kWhUP1.324 %*Minnesota*14.09¢ / kWh13.96¢ / kWhUP0.931 %*Mississippi*11.55¢ / kWh11.40¢ / kWhUP1.315 %*Missouri*13.23¢ / kWh13.25¢ / kWhDOWN-0.150 %*Montana*11.85¢ / kWh11.73¢ / kWhUP1.023 %*Nebraska*11.31¢ / kWh12.06¢ / kWhDOWN-6.218 %*Nevada*11.67¢ / kWh11.64¢ / kWhUP0.257 %*New Hampshire*19.63¢ / kWh19.30¢ / kWhUP1.709 %*New Jersey*15.64¢ / kWh15.96¢ / kWhDOWN-2.005 %*New Mexico*13.37¢ / kWh13.41¢ / kWhDOWN-0.298 %*New York*19.30¢ / kWh18.76¢ / kWhUP2.878 %*North Carolina*11.24¢ / kWh11.07¢ / kWhUP1.535 %*North Dakota*12.07¢ / kWh12.34¢ / kWhDOWN-2.188 %*Ohio*12.64¢ / kWh12.67¢ / kWhDOWN-0.236 %*Oklahoma*10.72¢ / kWh10.53¢ / kWhUP1.804 %*Oregon*11.02¢ / kWh10.97¢ / kWhUP0.455 %*Pennsylvania*14.38¢ / kWh14.52¢ / kWhDOWN-0.964 %*Rhode Island*18.64¢ / kWh16.65¢ / kWhUP11.95 %*South Carolina*12.91¢ / kWh13.07¢ / kWhDOWN-1.224 %*South Dakota*12.39¢ / kWh12.57¢ / kWhDOWN-1.431 %*Tennessee*10.79¢ / kWh10.93¢ / kWhDOWN-1.280 %*Texas*11.36¢ / kWh11.15¢ / kWhUP1.883 %*Utah*10.63¢ / kWh11.48¢ / kWhDOWN-7.404 %*Vermont*18.50¢ / kWh18.02¢ / kWhUP2.663 %*Virginia*12.40¢ / kWh11.91¢ / kWhUP4.114 %*Washington*9.79¢ / kWh9.95¢ / kWhDOWN-1.608 %*West Virginia*11.57¢ / kWh11.69¢ / kWhDOWN-1.026 %*Wisconsin*14.28¢ / kWh15.05¢ / kWhDOWN-5.116 %*Wyoming*12.30¢ / kWh12.21¢ / kWhUP0.737 %
*Trends & Observations from State Data*


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

What are those rates based on?
I only pay a little over 12cents.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> What are those rates based on?
> I only pay a little over 12cents.


Are you sure? Are you taking the average or the lowest rate on your bills? Thats seems low, here the lowest rate is $0.15xxx so average is obviously higher.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

SPG said:


> Coal is on the way out. Not just because there's more renewable power now, but because natural gas got cheap.
> Also, depends on where you live. TVA, Hoover Dam, most of the PNW are all hydro which is dirt cheap and "green" though that was an afterthought when it was built.


The left doesn't consider hydro renewable or green. Obama specifically culled hydro from the renewables list. 

Down south, they are taking out some big dams that provide power. They say they don't need them, but it's funny, we already don't have enough power for California.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

Big Johnson said:


> *only going up*
> 
> 
> STATEJUNE 2018JUNE 2017MOVEMENTCHANGE (%)*Alabama*12.41¢ / kWh12.79¢ / kWhDOWN-2.971 %*Alaska*22.54¢ / kWh22.14¢ / kWhUP1.806 %*Arizona*13.16¢ / kWh12.65¢ / kWhUP4.031 %*Arkansas*9.99¢ / kWh10.73¢ / kWhDOWN-6.896 %*California*19.90¢ / kWh19.39¢ / kWhUP2.630 %*Colorado*12.28¢ / kWh12.75¢ / kWhDOWN-3.686 %*Connecticut*21.62¢ / kWh20.47¢ / kWhUP5.617 %*DC*13.21¢ / kWh13.40¢ / kWhDOWN-1.417 %*Delaware*12.05¢ / kWh12.59¢ / kWhDOWN-4.289 %*Florida*11.37¢ / kWh12.02¢ / kWhDOWN-5.407 %*Georgia*12.26¢ / kWh12.53¢ / kWhDOWN-2.154 %*Hawaii*32.76¢ / kWh30.45¢ / kWhUP7.586 %*Idaho*10.58¢ / kWh11.42¢ / kWhDOWN-7.355 %*Illinois*12.56¢ / kWh12.95¢ / kWhDOWN-3.011 %*Indiana*12.02¢ / kWh12.05¢ / kWhDOWN-0.248 %*Iowa*13.81¢ / kWh13.92¢ / kWhDOWN-0.790 %*Kansas*11.56¢ / kWh13.56¢ / kWhDOWN-14.74 %*Kentucky*10.56¢ / kWh10.68¢ / kWhDOWN-1.123 %*Louisiana*9.37¢ / kWh10.19¢ / kWhDOWN-8.047 %*Maine*16.16¢ / kWh16.17¢ / kWhDOWN-0.061 %*Maryland*13.92¢ / kWh14.22¢ / kWhDOWN-2.109 %*Massachusetts*21.11¢ / kWh18.56¢ / kWhUP13.73 %*Michigan*16.07¢ / kWh15.86¢ / kWhUP1.324 %*Minnesota*14.09¢ / kWh13.96¢ / kWhUP0.931 %*Mississippi*11.55¢ / kWh11.40¢ / kWhUP1.315 %*Missouri*13.23¢ / kWh13.25¢ / kWhDOWN-0.150 %*Montana*11.85¢ / kWh11.73¢ / kWhUP1.023 %*Nebraska*11.31¢ / kWh12.06¢ / kWhDOWN-6.218 %*Nevada*11.67¢ / kWh11.64¢ / kWhUP0.257 %*New Hampshire*19.63¢ / kWh19.30¢ / kWhUP1.709 %*New Jersey*15.64¢ / kWh15.96¢ / kWhDOWN-2.005 %*New Mexico*13.37¢ / kWh13.41¢ / kWhDOWN-0.298 %*New York*19.30¢ / kWh18.76¢ / kWhUP2.878 %*North Carolina*11.24¢ / kWh11.07¢ / kWhUP1.535 %*North Dakota*12.07¢ / kWh12.34¢ / kWhDOWN-2.188 %*Ohio*12.64¢ / kWh12.67¢ / kWhDOWN-0.236 %*Oklahoma*10.72¢ / kWh10.53¢ / kWhUP1.804 %*Oregon*11.02¢ / kWh10.97¢ / kWhUP0.455 %*Pennsylvania*14.38¢ / kWh14.52¢ / kWhDOWN-0.964 %*Rhode Island*18.64¢ / kWh16.65¢ / kWhUP11.95 %*South Carolina*12.91¢ / kWh13.07¢ / kWhDOWN-1.224 %*South Dakota*12.39¢ / kWh12.57¢ / kWhDOWN-1.431 %*Tennessee*10.79¢ / kWh10.93¢ / kWhDOWN-1.280 %*Texas*11.36¢ / kWh11.15¢ / kWhUP1.883 %*Utah*10.63¢ / kWh11.48¢ / kWhDOWN-7.404 %*Vermont*18.50¢ / kWh18.02¢ / kWhUP2.663 %*Virginia*12.40¢ / kWh11.91¢ / kWhUP4.114 %*Washington*9.79¢ / kWh9.95¢ / kWhDOWN-1.608 %*West Virginia*11.57¢ / kWh11.69¢ / kWhDOWN-1.026 %*Wisconsin*14.28¢ / kWh15.05¢ / kWhDOWN-5.116 %*Wyoming*12.30¢ / kWh12.21¢ / kWhUP0.737 %
> *Trends & Observations from State Data*


Only going up? 21 are going up and 30 are going down.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

Robie said:


> Somebody better tell other countries. Building coal plants as fast as they can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you going to put your electric vehicle on a boat and ship it to China for a charge? Gonna run an extension cord 5,000 miles? But yeah, they're still building coal plants in those countries where coal and lives are cheap. But they're not burning US coal.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

Also, Japan has a **** ton of solar everywhere now. They're trying to get rid of their nukes, but I just don't see them burning coal long term.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

SPG said:


> Are you going to put your electric vehicle on a boat and ship it to China for a charge? Gonna run an extension cord 5,000 miles? But yeah, they're still building coal plants in those countries where coal and lives are cheap. But they're not burning US coal.


The point to all this "man-made climate change" phooey is pollution.

I wasn't aware there was an invisible curtain put up around the U.S to keep their pollution on their side.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

SPG said:


> Only going up? 21 are going up and 30 are going down.



that was 17 -18. Over the long run they’re all going up and in blue states it’s going to go up a lot.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

SPG said:


> Also, Japan has a **** ton of solar everywhere now. They're trying to get rid of their nukes, but I just don't see them burning coal long term.


Where do you get this from???


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

SPG said:


> Also, Japan has a **** ton of solar everywhere now. They're trying to get rid of their nukes, *but I just don't see them burning coal long term.*



They do apparently....



> Feb. 2020...
> Japan now plans to build as many as 22 new coal-burning power plants — one of the dirtiest sources of electricity — at 17 different sites in the next five years, just at a time when the world needs to slash carbon dioxide emissions to fight global warming.











Japan Races to Build New Coal-Burning Power Plants, Despite the Climate Risks (Published 2020)


As many as 22 new coal plants—one of the dirtiest power sources—will arise at 17 sites across Japan, just as the world must slash emissions to fight warming.




www.nytimes.com


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Where do you get this from???


when he was orphaned by his billionaire parents at the age of 9 he was found by an old Japanese sage who took him to live in Japan and teach him the ways of the dark martial arts on the island of Kunlun until he was 21. That‘s when he came back to the United states to learn the darker art of drywall hanging for 35 years while fighting crime at night. Now he’s here to impart his vast wisdom of leftardism on all of us.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Big Johnson said:


> Are you sure? Are you taking the average or the lowest rate on your bills? Thats seems low, here the lowest rate is $0.15xxx so average is obviously higher.


Right on my electric bill from last month.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> Right on my electric bill from last month.


so there’s no tiers? Straight up $0.12 on 1 Kw or 1000Kw?


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Big Johnson said:


> so there’s no tiers? Straight up $0.12 on 1 Kw or 1000Kw?


I was being generous and taking the highest rate,
There are three tiers actually: .07, .10, then .12


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)




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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

Randy Bush said:


> So with the push for EVs have they come up with a plan for the road tax?


Big brother has the technology for that right now, GPS tied to your debit card, interlock so if the debit card is depleted no drivey. This also has the benefit for BB to be able to see where you're going, they'll be tiered rates, drive in rush hour, pay more, drive downtown, ditto. They'll also this way have access to your monetary information, make sure no cash is coming in that isn't accounted for with the goal to be to eliminate cash entirely, got a taste of that with the kungflu hysteria and cash shortage then.

As to the power generation the elegant solution is to use clean natural gas as a bridge to fusion or other technologies or possibly modern nuclear fission but that makes too much sense, no the 'dream' is to use the bird blenders that are so incredibly expensive when the actual cost is figured out along with a huge increase in solar panels (which do have a place but not for industrial scale electrical generation) and to let the next generation worry about the natural resource depletion, the scarring of the land, the elimination of so many vital bird species not to mention the incredible waste stream that will be coming on line as the panels, turbines and batteries corrode, rust and wear out.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> I was being generous and taking the highest rate,
> There are three tiers actually: .07, .10, then .12


The average residential electricity rate in New Jersey is 16.14 ¢/kWh, compared to the US national average of 12.75 cents per kilowatt-hour. The average commercial electricity rate in New Jersey is 12.08 ¢/kWh, compared to the US national average of 10.27 cents per kilowatt-hour.


Mike.
*___*


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Here, they want to force us to put a gps in our cars. Then they will have everything they need to make us pay and track where and how fast we get there.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

There have been GPS units in new cars for a loooooong time.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Calidecks said:


> The average residential electricity rate in New Jersey is 16.14 ¢/kWh, compared to the US national average of 12.75 cents per kilowatt-hour. The average commercial electricity rate in New Jersey is 12.08 ¢/kWh, compared to the US national average of 10.27 cents per kilowatt-hour.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


There are three different electric companies doing business in NJ that I am aware of. May be another one or two in the northern corner of the state. I didn't look it it up to see. Anybody up by High Point?


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Sussex Rural Electric Co-Op


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Big Johnson said:


> does that include all charges like distribution and such?





Big Johnson said:


> does that include all charges like distribution and such?


.094 per kwh for generation
between .007 and .0256 for delivery
and we also get a small customer charge

I have the same supplier as Tim


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

rrk said:


> .094 per kwh for generation
> between .007 and .0256 for delivery
> and we also get a small customer charge
> 
> I have the same supplier as Tim


 You have JCP&L too?
I'm sorry to hear that


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Big Johnson said:


> That’s insane.
> 
> ”The city of Bellingham’s Climate Action Plan Task Force is recommending a 100 percent conversion from natural gas to electricity that could cost home sellers or buyers $30,000-$50,000.”
> 
> ...


How did they arrive at those numbers?
$30-50,000 to install electric baseboard heaters? The cheapest of cheap houses in this area were built with electric baseboard heat. Cheap to install and a fortune to operate. Except now you can offset with solar.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

SPG said:


> You need to do your research on no good,, no good!


Solar and wind are incapable of sustaining the energy requirements of our modern world. Solar burns up too much space. The materials to build them are somewhat rare and costly. They also destroy the electrical system by interfering with the natural distribution of power. Eventually the power generation system won't be worth running because solar interferes and if it shuts down there won't be enough power to keep things running. Do you know how much power it takes to run a city and how little space they have for solar panels?

Wind energy is even more pathetic. It's reliability is very low. If you want something reliable think ocean waves, they never stop - wind stops and goes is dependent on the weather. Same with the sun. Waves go and go.

What's wrong with nuclear? Thorium based nuclear power is what they should be striving for.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> How did they arrive at those numbers?
> $30-50,000 to install electric baseboard heaters? The cheapest of cheap houses in this area were built with electric baseboard heat. Cheap to install and a fortune to operate. Except now you can offset with solar.


Maybe loss in value? Maybe the permit is $30,000? Who knows when it comes to crazy authoritarian democrats.

It‘s WA, good luck with solar.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

As luck would have it. Just came in todays E"mail"
Solar Panels on a New Home: A Cost-Effectiveness Analysis | NAHB Now | The News Blog of the National Association of Home Builders


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Leo G said:


> Solar and wind are incapable of sustaining the energy requirements of our modern world. Solar burns up too much space. The materials to build them are somewhat rare and costly. They also destroy the electrical system by interfering with the natural distribution of power. Eventually the power generation system won't be worth running because solar interferes and if it shuts down there won't be enough power to keep things running. Do you know how much power it takes to run a city and how little space they have for solar panels?
> 
> Wind energy is even more pathetic. It's reliability is very low. If you want something reliable think ocean waves, they never stop - wind stops and goes is dependent on the weather. Same with the sun. Waves go and go.
> 
> What's wrong with nuclear? Thorium based nuclear power is what they should be striving for.


Delivering clean energy to New Jersey | Ocean Wind


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Time will determine if it's reliable.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Solar is very reliable here and are mandatory on every new home and has been for many years now.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

That NAHB link I posted above had price of electric in HI at like .29cents?! Ouch.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Solar is very reliable here and are mandatory on every new home and has been for many years now.


It also works well in Arizona, but what about other areas that are more cloudy. Are they just going to deal with lack of electricity because the state deems that's where power can only come from? Higher equatorial elevations receive much less sunlight power than closer to the equator. Makes a big difference in how many sq ft of solar panels you need. Until you get efficiencies in the 50%+ range for solar panels they won't be able to be a main source of power.

A nice thorium reactor in every garage would take care of the power issue.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

Leo G said:


> It also works well in Arizona, but what about other areas that are more cloudy. ... Higher equatorial elevations receive much less sunlight power than closer to the equator.


I happen to live in a "higher equatorial elevation" and one that is known for being really cloudy...in winter. When the days are short. But in summer, that sun is reliably shining from 5am to 10pm and cranks out so much electricity that it makes up for the cloudy short winter days. In fact, you'll get more solar power in WA than AZ in the summer. 



Leo G said:


> A nice thorium reactor in every garage would take care of the power issue.


So would a trans dimensional continuum inverter. But we don't have those because they don't exist. 

And yet again, I think that I should mention that no power source is a perfect one size fits all solution. They all have their pros and cons and those also depend on where they are. Wind is very cheap and reliable in reliably windy places. Solar works great when you have the space and sun exposure. Geothermal is the way to go in Iceland. Tidal could work, except maybe not in Kansas.


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## JoeStanton (Sep 24, 2008)

Only problem with making up for the power in summer is storing it. From everything I've read they don't store unused power so any that doesn't get used is wasted. This is why the power company's are fighting solar, they have to buy it back for the same price the make and distribute it.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Many electrical companies don't do that anymore. Cost them too much money and it only hurts them. You need an absolute bottom line to keep them going and if you go below that they'll shut down. This is what I was saying about solar hurting the elec companies.

They have a water system that they pump water up into a pool on a hill with the excess and at night they drain it back out through hydro turbines. Not exactly an efficient way to store it but it does work on a small scale.


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## JoeStanton (Sep 24, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Many electrical companies don't do that anymore. Cost them too much money and it only hurts them. You need an absolute bottom line to keep them going and if you go below that they'll shut down. This is what I was saying about solar hurting the elec companies.
> 
> They have a water system that they pump water up into a pool on a hill with the excess and at night they drain it back out through hydro turbines. Not exactly an efficient way to store it but it does work on a small scale.


That's my understanding also, once solar buy back goes down 50% it's make even less sense. The fact that solar only lasts 20 years on average is just nuts to me. I'm all for renewable energy but can we do it without the gubment footing the bill? Can we make products that last the life of a house? I do know a few sparky's that hook up solar and they make a killing.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

JoeStanton said:


> That's my understanding also, once solar buy back goes down 50% it's make even less sense. The fact that solar only lasts 20 years on average is just nuts to me. I'm all for renewable energy but can we do it without the gubment footing the bill? Can we make products that last the life of a house? I do know a few sparky's that hook up solar and they make a killing.



The "gubment" underwrites everything...everything, one way or another.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You mean the taxpayers do. The govt has no money it hasn't stolen from someone to give to someone else.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

That's right. 
"We" are the government. So can't criticize one industry for taking support, while another takes it for themselves.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

JoeStanton said:


> The fact that solar only lasts 20 years on average is just nuts to me.


A solar panel is still putting out 80% of it's original output at 20 years. They don't just shut off or explode at 20 years. They just have a slightly reduced output of 1%/yr. That's where the "lifespan" number comes from. You can keep using them, and most people probably will, just that you won't be getting that brand new output so some people will probably opt to replace at that point. At 50 years, then yeah...most people will be looking to replace.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

10 to 15 years later the solar panel is obsolete already,, ready to move on to a better panel. This stuff is moving very fast now.


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