# No Wattages listed on Appliance specs?



## BoulderBuilder (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm in the middle of remodeling a house and I'm very short on breaker spaces in my panel (different issue). The Kitchen appliance dealer provided me with spec sheets (for five different jenn-air appliances and a few from GE), but the sheets only specify 'use on 15-20A 120v circuit' and no further information regarding draw. I called both the dealer AND the manufacturer to ask for the specific draw and they just repeated '15-20A 120V is all we have, if you want more information then physically find the equipment and read the nameplate'. They both said that its odd that someone would ask that. Really??? From the manufacturer??
My electrcian needs this information in order to bring the right number of circuits to the kitchen. For example if two appliances combined draw 800 watts, then he only has to bring one 15 line for them etc... . Otherwise he's gonna overkill the kitchen (mat's and labor and panel space wasted)
Also in some municipalities (not mine) the EC has to provide a load estimate to the city/utility company. 
And also the EC should know this information in order to design/balance a system properly, and just know it anyway.
Any thoughts on how to obtain it???


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Try rooting through the manufacturer's website, especially if you have the model number.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Edit . Never mind, I'm out of date on Jenn Aire appliances.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Try rooting through the manufacturer's website, especially if you have the model number.


X2, i just went through this with a septic grinder/transfer pump. Being in a crawl space i needed to know the amp draw rating to see if the existing circuit would handle a heat tape to prevent freezing. Instructions didnt show anything and i wasnt about to take the tank apart for access to the pump motor so i called the manufacturer technical assistance. The model number will be needed and having the invoice is a plus.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

your electrician should cover himself by allowing 1400w or 20a circuit for each i would say without knowing what youre actually buying :shifty:


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## BoulderBuilder (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks guys but like I said in my post we have already tried the manufacturer. They don't have that info. We have to look at the appliances themselves. Plummen, my electrician and I have talked extensively about that. Sure it would work but thats alot of extra wire/circuits to run when it's likely not necessary. For example the hood likely doesn't pull more than 3 or 4 amps so that should be able to be wired in with another appliance. Just doesn't make sense to do a bunch of wiring that isn't necessary.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

2 circuits is a bunch of extra wiring? :laughing: you dont give us any kind of list of what appliances your buying and you want your questions answered,then you dont like the answer you get. :shifty:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

BoulderBuilder said:


> Any thoughts on how to obtain it???


Amp clamp?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

How about letting us in on The Big Secret?

Post the manufacturer and model numbers. You may be surprised what the members here can dig up.


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## BoulderBuilder (Nov 15, 2009)

Here are the appliances. I agree running one more circuit isn't a big deal. However in this kitchen it would likely be an extra two or three if the wattages are what we think they would be. It's extra time and money for the homeowner that is probably not necessary.
At this point it's not so much the extra wiring, it's the curiousity that JennAir does not have those numbers when it seems to my electrician and I those are crucial numbers to do the job correctly. Again it is not a major problem to run more, it's the principle behind it, theres principalities involved.

EDIT: I am not allowed to post links until I have 15 posts.

Refrigerator: JFI2089AES 
Kitchenaid Range:KDRS483VSS 
Jennair Dishwasher:JDB3600AWS 
Jennair Hood:JXW9048WP 
Jennair Wine Captain:JUW248LWRS 
Jennair Trash Compactor:TC607X 
GE MicrowaveEM31SMSS


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

IMO they should all have their own circuit but if i were to double any of them up on one circuit it would be the microwave and range hood due to the wattage rating demand of each. I am sure someone will have a better answer as i havent researched the ratings for any of these and i am only going by the general ratings of most appliances.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

For the microwave, I would allocate a full 15-20A circuit. The maximum allowed continuous current is 80% of the circuit capacity and higher wattage microwave is pushing 80-100% capacity. 

You'll have to leave a decent amount of room for appliance upgrades and plug-in small appliances. Many plug in appliances are big suckers.

1200W microwave takes around 1800W. A toaster around 1000W and my George Foreman grill is 1200W. 


Having excessive capacity, even two circuits going to one outlet (duplex outlet split and connected to two circuits) is much cheaper than adding capacity after the occupant finds he can't use his microwave, GF grill and electric roaster at the same time.

The hood should be allocated its own 15 or 20A circuit since there's a good chance they'll put in a over the range microwave later on


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## TimPa (Jan 26, 2010)

i would seriously consider wiring to the maximum, not to the existing appliances. the first house wired in my town had one outlet "what would we ever need another outlet for?" of cource you need to follow code on coutertop receptacles. i always wire refrigerators, microwaves, and ranges on dedicated circuits. your hood could go about anywhere. so dishwasher, compactor and wine cooler are left. call your dealer for wattage or current on them.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Let's say the homeowner puts in a new stove. Will it be covered? I haven't reviewed the electric code for years. I do seem to remember something about dedicated circuits many books ago.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

solarguy said:


> Let's say the homeowner puts in a new stove. Will it be covered? I haven't reviewed the electric code for years. I do seem to remember something about dedicated circuits many books ago.


I think the stove/oven combo unit is the only appliance given a 50A 120/240 split phase outlet in residential houses, unless of course, it has multiple kitchens or a purpose specific reason during design such as a welder or electric vehicle charging outlet in the garage. 

If a home owner gets a new stove to replace the existing one, there wouldn't be a problem. 

Also, high power appliances that suddenly change in load should be given their own outlets as the slight,but frequent and repetitive voltage fluctuation causes very annoying light flickering. High dv/dt causes device that can otherwise accommodate the same range of voltage can malfunction as well...

order of most annoying to least in my opinion

laser printers (cycles as often as every few seconds, jumping from few tens of watts to 1.5kW) 

microwave ovens (if you use power level settings, it will cycle every few tens of seconds) 

air conditioners (compressor starting will cause a dip)


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## tombs31 (Apr 18, 2010)

Remember the 80% rule.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

tombs31 said:


> Remember the 80% rule.



What about it?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Just remember it, don't you listen?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Just remember it, don't you listen?



Remember _what_? Did you say something?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

He said remember the 80% rule. How hard is that for a smart feller like yerself.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

I retain 80% of what I read. That would make it the 64% rule.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I can only remember the Alamo.


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## tombs31 (Apr 18, 2010)

sorry for the delay. The combined load of the appliances on a circuit cannot exceed 80% of the circuit rating.


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## tombs31 (Apr 18, 2010)

Alamo...that's the stuff you load guns with; right?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

tombs31 said:


> Alamo...that's the stuff you load guns with; right?


I thought it was pie with ice cream.:laughing::laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

No, it's where Pee Wee Herman went to find his bicycle.


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## hbiss (May 23, 2007)

I think your story sounds a little far fetched. From your whining about overkill and wasting materials and lack of panel space either your EC really isn't an EC or you are trying to do this yourself would be my guess. With the exception of the range hood I think any reputable EC would provide separate 20A circuits for each appliance and probably a 50A circuit for the range as required. If you are running out of panel space deal with it. New service or a sub-panel. 

-Hal


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## tombs31 (Apr 18, 2010)

Here, here!


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