# hiring carpenters is so frustrating !!



## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

every carpenter i hire seems to not know common carpentry skills .

the guy i have now 
i pay steve $23 an hour .( been with me for 4 months now)
he has full van of tools .good power and hand tools .
pretty good carpenter. keeps job clean , works decent speed 
putting down 4x4 p.t. beams on steel frames.
each run is 34 feet long 
i wanted them bolted down tight .
then we would run 1x4`s on top of these perpendicular , and we would string line them straight , and shim where we need to .
i told him to string line them and make them straight.
he puts only the string up , 
i tell him " use gauge-blocks"
he looks at me in a way that said he didn`t know what i meant!
also . as we were putting the string and gauge blocks in place , 
i notice the 4x4`s were not bolted down tight ( they have 1/2 inch thru-bolts and nuts to hold them in place .
" steve . we cant run the string line one these beams if they`re not tight . you need to have them tightened all the way , so they don`t move "

steve says " ok" and then does it
but why am i showing a carpenter- who has done full bathrooms ,can do good tile work , electric , and plumbing , installed 120 feet of fencing . , t&g`ed the outside of a full house with before - common carpentry things ??

nice guy , pretty honest , but .......

reading a tape measure ? 
i`d say 80% still have to hesitate( 5-10 seconds) and think if the measurement has to be in the 16th`s

i have so many of these stories with each hiring

its just amazing how much or how little each guy knows .
its too bad there isn`t true necessary certification for carpenters .
they all only know from the few jobs and bosses behind them , and from those few teachers .
and all us bosses/teachers has our own way of doing things . not necessarily the best way either .( because we are also a product of who taught us also.

this trade is just deteriorating :blink:

do you guys have this happen to you also?


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## CityDecks (Jan 10, 2018)

woodspike said:


> every carpenter i hire seems to not know common carpentry skills .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its terrible. ... 

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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Now might be a good time to find one though.


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## Bldbiz (Apr 9, 2018)

Sometimes it's just the terminology. "guage/gage blocks" are more of a machinist/tool and die reference. Use the term "offset" maybe and use 2x4 so it's always 1 1/2" offset similar to "cutting a foot" when pulling long tape measurements. If he's only been with you for 4 months might just need to get your lingo down.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

I loved framing. 

20 years

Around 300 different buildings total. Mostly residential but also a couple apartment complexes and a hotel. 

I’d jump back in tomorrow, but there’s no way to earn a living without hiring cheap labor. I had a hard time finding men worth anything. And when you find them, builders see only bottom line. They will go with the other guy if it saves then 25 cents per SF. 

The line I really hate is when a builder goes with someone else and then two months later you run into him and he says he wishes he had went with me because of all the headaches he had and callbacks. That does me no good to hear that.

Until the pay rises from what it was in the early 90s then why be a framer. 
We were hustling to get 2.75 to 3.50 per SF around Houston. I bet it ain’t much more 20 years later. Gas was under a buck a gallon back then.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Most framers drive me nuts with the quality of work they do. Been on a few new houses , nothing flows right , things are not plumb, awning shed roofs not securely fastened to the building, lists goes on. Most of the time by the time I get to a house to work on the outside there is very little that can be changed. Always leave it to the next guy to figure out.


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## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

Bldbiz said:


> Sometimes it's just the terminology. "guage/gage blocks" are more of a machinist/tool and die reference. Use the term "offset" maybe and use 2x4 so it's always 1 1/2" offset similar to "cutting a foot" when pulling long tape measurements. If he's only been with you for 4 months might just need to get your lingo down.



Lingo is definitely a hurdle when working with new people. Many times I have had people give me a blank stare because of a different term. Tools too


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Her`e a g`uy a`t 23`$ per ho`ur would`nt be expected to no m`uch .


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

all a cross the construction industry th ere is a dire need for experienced people...in ALL facets...

med/large companies are looking for experienced project managers & estimators.

Experienced superintendents also seem to be at a premium.

then the actual trades guys...

it takes steady interesting work, with above average pay and more times than not some sort of perks/bennies to get quality guys.

$23/hr is laborer pay, & not a very experienced guy...


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

The line block thing, could be he never used gauge blocks before. I've seen it alot.

The measurement thing, no one ever taught him. Me, "How long does that need to be?" Carpenter, "36 and 5 little marks." Not kidding. I think that was the first day. I taught him after that.

I have the same problem, but I think it's worse. The pay doesn't matter. $23 in California vs. $23 in Missouri are completely different. It's what you get for your money or what you have to choose from.

Here's how I see it. 
If I take a good look at my "competition", I will see 2 or 3 guys that came up through the ranks, like myself. Start young, as a laborer. Working with the older guys. Learning from them. As the years wen't by, I moved up the ladder. 

The others who consider themselves "Contractors" didn't do this. For one reason or another, they couldn't find a job. Usually no one would hire them. Their work habits or personal habits always get in the way of working. So, they have a truck, and they have very basic skills. "Helped an uncle put on a roof once" type of experience. They start their business, not having climbed the experience ladder.

Just this week, I had a guy asking me questions about suspended ceiling. He said, "I watched like 3 videos on youtube and they just confused me."
This is his experience.

I agree. It's only getting worse. This trade is dying.


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## CityDecks (Jan 10, 2018)

23 or 43 ts still it's still terrible. I find that most don't stay on a job or with3a builder long enough to learn properly. It's like they learn just enough to talk chitt. I call them posers. 


I make the guys watch Larry Haun, read jlc articles, etc and test them on it. Not because I'm a professional framer. Its to learn efficiency and to think just 2 maybe if I'm lucky 3 steps ahead. I'm not a not for profit there's only so much milk I can offer to drink. Ultimately its up to them to come and take it. 


I'm working well until Corona shut down on a large commercial job. There international masonry outfit on site. Tremendous guys. Professional to the tee. There core crew here is about side go to guys and mostly between 53-63. There inspiring.

Obviously there union and tap into the pool but a lot of headaches. To the point were they'll hire 20 because 12 will show up regularly or something like that. 

Its appears that most in trades have simply lost self respect, initiative. Its shows with there appearance, attidute, pride and performance. 


Good luck to us all who give chitt and make it happen day in / day out. 





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## NJ Contractor (Nov 12, 2016)

Its been my experience in 20+ years of business that less than 10% of new hires are worth keeping and retraining.


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

We contractors are also guilty of not training nearly as much as we should. There needs to be some off the clock classroom training as well as on the job training and that costs time and money. Many contractors gripe about their help, but won't invest the $$ in them to train.

You can get good work out of average people with proper leadership and training.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Fishindude said:


> We contractors are also guilty of not training nearly as much as we should. There needs to be some off the clock classroom training as well as on the job training and that costs time and money. Many contractors gripe about their help, but won't invest the $$ in them to train.
> 
> You can get good work out of average people with proper leadership and training.




Couldn’t agree more.

Good help is expensive but good leadership is priceless.

My 12, 10, and 9 year olds can be quite productive. It’s my job to train them and position them to succeed.

After I cut the pieces for window trims, two of them pocket hole drilled them and one helped me assemble them as fast and as well as any laborer could.

If they are not productive, it’s on me. I have to train them to be safe, be efficient, be productive, and to help their peers to do the same. 

Same is true with adults.


It’s like Boomers complaining about MIllenials- last I checked, the boomers are the parents. It’s on them.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Fishindude said:


> We contractors are also guilty of not training nearly as much as we should. There needs to be some off the clock classroom training as well as on the job training and that costs time and money. Many contractors gripe about their help, but won't invest the $$ in them to train.
> 
> You can get good work out of average people with proper leadership and training.


The art is in seeing the employee who will give the most back over 10 years, even if they require a year to really get on board. Prioritize attitude and general aptitude over current skill set.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

^^^^^

Hire for character, train for skill.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

You can be the best Damn Carpenter since Larry Haun, but if you don't have a good attitude and sense of humor you can't work for me. 

A bad apple can run through a crew like a virus. Brings everyone down. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

Calidecks said:


> You can be the best Damn Carpenter since Larry Haun, but if you don't have a good attitude and sense of humor you can't work for me.
> 
> A bad apple can run through a crew like a virus. Brings everyone down.
> 
> ...


I had a boss that told us, his core crew, if we don't like the new guy we can fire him if he isn't a good fit.

Got rid of a few guys that had attitude problems that way.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Youngin' said:


> I had a boss that told us, his core crew, if we don't like the new guy we can fire him if he isn't a good fit.
> 
> Got rid of a few guys that had attitude problems that way.



That's a huge moral booster to allow the crew to have a say. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

No apprenticeship programs out there? We have a few here.


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## 402joel (Sep 1, 2011)

I had a great group of guys for 20 plus years, they fired more new guys than I ever did
We had fun, we’re proud of our work, and made good money, all we’re journeymen, skilled and efficient - 

Ah, now I’m reminiscing :thumbsup:


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## CityDecks (Jan 10, 2018)

Calidecks said:


> That's a huge moral booster to allow the crew to have a say.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Had one last yr. Didn't realize what a Debbie downer he was. It really clicked when he was gone. Work flowed like river. 

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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

I'm sick of hearing about the normal workings of economics. 
When there is a shortage of something, such as skilled carpenters, there is a reason. The marketplace hasn't valued them enough to incentivize supply.

The industry pays for ****, first to lay off and last to hire during recessions, few benefits, safety is looked down upon (especially here), and low social status.

Society is getting the carpenters it's willing to pay for. Put a damn sock in it please.


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Her`e a g`uy a`t 23`$ per ho`ur would`nt be expected to no m`uch .


 your saying thats a low wage?

maybe i`m not in touch with wages across country ,
but thats pretty decent in miami .
i have no problem paying the current wage


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Kowboy said:


> I'm sick of hearing about the normal workings of economics.
> When there is a shortage of something, such as skilled carpenters, there is a reason. The marketplace hasn't valued them enough to incentivize supply.
> 
> The industry pays for ****, first to lay off and last to hire during recessions, few benefits, safety is looked down upon (especially here), and low social status.
> ...


This is a two way cause. Those taking the pay are just as much to blame as those giving it. 


Mike.
_______________


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

Kowboy said:


> I'm sick of hearing about the normal workings of economics.
> When there is a shortage of something, such as skilled carpenters, there is a reason. The marketplace hasn't valued them enough to incentivize supply.
> 
> The industry pays for ****, first to lay off and last to hire during recessions, few benefits, safety is looked down upon (especially here), and low social status.
> ...


 ok . lets not make this a political rant .
keep your "sock" where you left it
i`m not going there 

your making a blanket-statement like you did ,does not take into account the individual
did you say " incentivize supply."?? , " low social status"??:blink:

i`m not trying to fix the country ding dong , i`m just trying to get good help for my little business. and wanted to get feedback and " smart "input.

i really dont think " Steve" doesn't think " well , dammit!! . people look at my social status as low , so i`m not gonna do my best!!"
i`m sure Steve couldn`t spell "" incentivize supply." 
he actually loves his job. he just doesn`t think a couple steps past what he`s doing at the moment.

in every field , not just the construction field , you have people who are their for the paycheck , and do the least they have to.
yea , maybe more in construction . but too bad .you till need to do your job well!
but the ones who are smart , rise to the occasion , and start their own business , or learnt their trade better , and make better money .


not dumb down!


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

woodspike said:


> your saying thats a low wage?
> 
> maybe i`m not in touch with wages across country ,
> but thats pretty decent in miami .
> i have no problem paying the current wage


Yea it's a good wage for some guy that can hardly speak English. I left that chit hole place over 30 years ago and never went back.:thumbsup:
See Kowboy's post^^^


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

There's always that one guy that wants to be your partner but doesn't want to share the burden. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

woodspike said:


> ok . lets not make this a political rant .


There's nothing political there.





woodspike said:


> " low social status"??:blink:


Yes Low social status. You ever talking with some hot lady in the pub and they ask what you do,, oh I'm a carpenter.. or you say Oh I'm a architectural wood worker:thumbsup:



woodspike said:


> " smart "input.


:laughing::laughing:



woodspike said:


> i`m sure Steve couldn`t spell "" incentivize supply."


 And this is coming from a guy that can't form a cohesive paragraph.


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## Iowamo (Feb 9, 2020)

I'm subbing for the guy I work with. Two man crew. He writes the check so he's always right. Reading someone's mind is not easy.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> And this is coming from a guy that can't form a cohesive paragraph.


Finally, took nearly 2 years for someone to mention that.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

avenge said:


> Finally, took nearly 2 years for someone to mention that.


1 year and 4 months. But I’m pretty sure it’s been brought up before.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Big Johnson said:


> 1 year and 4 months. But I’m pretty sure it’s been brought up before.


His posts are like reading the spam emails I get from foreigners.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I once read that in billiards (pool), you basically have to think three shots ahead, and execute, to be great. 

Tell him you want him to start thinking three moves ahead more often, and calmly help him do so. "Three move ahead, Steve." (it's a metaphor..could be any number)


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

man .
all this because i wanted someone to relate on hiring guys and their lack of skill sometimes 

my grammar comes into question .
ha!" spam from foreigners."
" next time i`m talking to a hot lady in pub??

just saying its a pain in the butt finding good help.

you bunch of intelectables ..
gonna go drink something , and watch fox news


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

If your teaching a guy is as bad as your typing no wonder you're having a hard time.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> If your teaching a guy is as bad as your typing no wonder you're having a hard time.


"you're" :thumbup:


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Believe it or not, Improve your grammar, and YOUR pay WILL go up....

But I know you'l ignore my advice.....:whistling

If the 23$/hr guy knows less then you need, spend 10% MORE to get a person that EARNS you 11% MORE, WIN-WIN and less tears.

Pay the "going" rate = get the bare minimum, maybe a little better on someone that is just passing through to a job that respects their work and knowledge with decent pay?

You pay $#*(, and get $#&*), then act surprised......:laughing:

If you insist on working with Untrained idioots, open a school, every Day a Training day, so you have good help, till they wise up and leave for decent employer....


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

Every "good" tradesman is already employed, they are not sitting home reading the newspaper waiting and looking for a job. They are in high demand and are already gainfully employed, doing a good job for somebody else. 

The only way you are going to hire one of these guys if he hears through the grapevine that you are a good guy and that you pay and treat your people better than where he is presently working. Then, he might come looking, but people are reluctant to leave a job and move to something unknown. 

If you know of some of these guys working for competitors, etc. you could contact and recruit them and try to convince them to jump ship and join your team, but that borders on "unethical" so don't be surprised when you competitors do the same to you.

You can pick up an occasional guy coming over from competitors, but the real way to build a workforce is through training. Hire the good attitude, then train the skills. It takes time and commitment and you will lose some of the guys you have trained which can be discouraging, but over time you train more than you need and build yourself a quality workforce.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

It occurs to me that looking for an employee is similar to looking for a wife.


Some perspective employers grouse that all the good ones are taken and blame it on everyone else but themselves.

Wouldn’t it be wiser to become a more attractive place to work?


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Woodspike, everyone does things different dude. Some people don't use gauge blocks, what's common carpentry to you may be foreign language to another carpenter. There's still a lot of experienced carpenters that don't know what a 3,4,5 is, or have no idea why a framing square has numbers on it. How do they even get things done? They've developed their own way of doing things, as you have developed your own way over the years.
> 
> It sounds like you have a good guy, but communication is more the issue, not carpentry skill. I think what happened when you were straitening the 4x4 is he had his own method in mind of getting it done. Then you came along and told him to do it your way and all of the sudden threw a curve ball in the whole thing. So he had to stop and re-think the situation, try and understand what you meant, and throw his ideas out the window. Then in the process he got disgruntled and started making mistakes. This has happened to me several times. If I'm working with someone new and I jump in to help, I have to go from using the techniques I've been using for 25 years to trying to be a mind reader and cooperate with the other person. Yes, it can get frustrating for both.
> 
> Sometimes I tell people communication is the hardest part about construction, carpentry is the easy part. It's a joint effort by both of you, maybe you needed to be a little more specific. Start with a question "Do you have experience using gauge blocks to straighten something?". He would have said no then you could quickly go through the steps and he would probably quickly catch on. Another option is to simply tell him what you want done then go and do something else, let him use his own techniques. The longer you work with him the easier it will be, you'll start getting used to each other more, just be patient I guess.


 yea , i hear you,.
i wrote this weeks back , and i still have steve 
funny , what he doesn't have experience in , he makes up in being incredibly organized .
i`m seeing that its best to stick with him after all
you know this train caboose we`re working on, we had to demo it down to the steel frame , about 3 months back .
at that time he was only with me a couple months ( guessing)
i had told him to take good notes on everything he demo`ed 
now when we are making these 1920`s windows , or doors , or re-structuring the roof framing ( all hand made pieces ) i found he had detailed notes , and measurements on everything.
he keeps the project neat .
i trust him with my tools , which is big when your using each others tools daily .
i`m realizing i`m just faster to figure things out , and of course have more experience .
i do wish i can just say , " steve , frame that out "
or
" look , make those windows 24 x 25 1/4 inch " and know i can trust he can do it .
i have to lay it out , and figure out the angles , and measurements for him , and then he does a good job.
i guess its like the saying about " its better to deal with the wolf you know "


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

woodspike said:


> panties not in a bunch at all from what you said
> 
> as for the other guy who calls himself dirty white boy , but uses a picture of a dirty mexican on his tag .... well yea i don`t need his advice
> 
> ...


I hope you take this as constructive criticism but that part "and don`t over-charge even when i could ( probably don`t charge enough some times", is I think, a big problem for you.
If you charge $100.00/hr. more than someone else and people are willing to pay it then maybe it is the other guy, your competition, that is undervaluing his work.
Charge more, live more, take the wife to Italy sometime. And for Christ's sake, use the shift key now and again to capitalize words appropriately.

Andy.


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

AAAAAAAAAAAUUUUGGGGGHHHH!!! 
GRAMMAR POLICE AGAIN!!!!!

funny , you said " take your wife to Italy"
thats her dream place to go , shes of itali..... oh sorry .... "Italian" decent.
She always wanted to go there. ( please stay away from my wife from now on ...)

I am taking all this in .
Why else write on here? Free advice from people who can truly relate .

Thanks for the honesty 
 even about my grammar faux pas .:no:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Sometimes turning weakness into strength is a good approach.

Starving?
Stuck driving a beat up F350?
Spend all your time teaching helpers?

Set up ""Starving Carpenter Renovations" non profit.
Use a beater F350 in the logo on your new F350.
Formalize teaching the trade.
Hit everyone up for equipment and material donations, or cash.


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## tang (Jan 5, 2009)

woodspike said:


> yea , i hear you,.
> i wrote this weeks back , and i still have steve
> funny , what he doesn't have experience in , he makes up in being incredibly organized .
> i`m seeing that its best to stick with him after all
> ...


 When the time comes that you can trust Steve to take over the job, and do good work... Steve will leave,,, and start Steve's Home Repair....


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

tang said:


> When the time comes that you can trust Steve to take over the job, and do good work... Steve will leave,,, and start Steve's Home Repair....


 Nope!

I have done this long enough , and had plenty of guys go off on their own, to see that he`s not that kind of animal. Will always work for someone.
He doesn't want a lot of hours , has 4 kids , wife makes decent money.
He wants to go to work and go home . He`s already early 40`s. Has more ( and better) tools than me . He would have done it by now.Has never asked me how to bid , or to figure materials out , just puts his head down , and works .

But there is a good chance he`ll tire of me , or just want a change eventually.
i`m very aware that there's thousands of Steves , and thousands of Spikes out there. 
Had some stay for 17 years .
Had some not even last a month or 2.
Sometimes its me , or the type of work i do .
Sometimes its them .
No one stays forever


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

woodspike said:


> Nope!
> 
> I have done this long enough , and had plenty of guys go off on their own, to see that he`s not that kind of animal. Will always work for someone.
> He doesn't want a lot of hours , has 4 kids , wife makes decent money.
> ...


After reading your posts, there aren't many that want to use your bid methods.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

warren said:


> after reading your posts, there aren't many that want to use your bid methods.


ouch!


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

hdavis said:


> ouch!


Ha ! 
I was gonna say the same .

Hey! 
I`ll take it ,
I left myself open for that .

You know, i always try to be honest .
I don`t know any of you guys , so why not .Why not get some true advice . 
Wasn't looking for an "attaboy"
I know i do bid off.
i truly do work out my bids. Never really use sq.ft. , or linear ft. costs .
But try to break the jobs down ,( demo , framing , drywall work , electric, plumbing , etc...)
Dropped down in my job sizes.
I`m obviously outdated in my day , or hour -rate.

Still working on it .
But still made enough to buy a beach-front condo , and 2 other houses , plus a salon for my wife , back in the day . Put both kids through college back in the day .

Salon , and condo is gone now .
But I did o.k.

Want to do better again , and i`ll keep working on it.
That's why i asked .

Appreciatte the honesty


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Under pricing your worth is very common. A lot of times, it starts from the person being cheap, and looking at it through their cheapskate glasses. 

Sometimes it's just fear of work drying up. If you aren't serving the people who are willing to support the kind of success you're looking for, you need to be.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

hdavis said:


> Under pricing your worth is very common. A lot of times, it starts from the person being cheap, and looking at it through their cheapskate glasses.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes it's just fear of work drying up. If you aren't serving the people who are willing to support the kind of success you're looking for, you need to be.




I think some of it can come from being skilled, Seeing how easy things are, but not realizing the value of the job to the homeowner.

- Sure, I can go cut in a roof vent. It won’t take but 20 minutes.

No way I am charging only $100/ hr for that job.

By the same token, the homeowner has no clue how to do the job.


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## woodspike (Dec 2, 2018)

aaauuugghh !!! steve is leaving !!
no notice , no anything !!
3 weeks back , i had to fly to help daughter in s. Carolina,
on Thursday Steve asked : " since your gonna be gone , can i take those days off"?
i said o.k. , figuring , he won`t be worth a damn if he really doesn`t want to work anyway .
i get back Tuesday , and Steve doesn`t contact me till 8:45. a.m. to tell me he wasn`t coming in, says " my kids sick , gonna take the week off"
WTF!
after a couple more days i put an ad out for carpenter/s
a portion didn`t speak English ( common in Miami)
some lived in the next city north ( making it an hour drive each day)
one didn`t have tools .
one wanted to tak 3 buses in and have me pick him up at the metro-rail station .
Steve didn`t call that next weekend.
Monday comes and he doesn`t answer again.
then thru text he answers me on Tuesday , and says wife is showing symptoms of the coviid 19 , and they`re both taking the test Thursday of that week.
interviewed 10 guys on the phone 
GET THIS :
6 TIMES GUYs SAID " i`ll come in tomorrow , and only one showed ,
that guy showed ,met me and said he would start the following day ,
he never showed 
steve still MIA.
got a decent helper who has worked a few days now . knows almost as much as Steve, is more accurate,, and wants to work for $6 less an hour . i actually gave him $2 more than he asked for .fair is fair.
i have Steves tools on job , and his $1000 generator. 
He`s got 4 kids , and i`d think he needs an income .
good working , a nice guy ,
but 
his biggest flaw is absolutely no confrontation too a fault 
i mean , say " spike i don`t want to work for you anymore "
or " i`m looking for a different job" , or something 

but just crickets is the f***ing worse!


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## Justin Rhoades (Apr 18, 2017)

I've had about 30-40 guys come and go in my few years running a business. Probably 3/4 of them only work a day or two then don't show up. Of the other half, only 2 gave me 2 weeks notice. The others have just text me that they aren't coming to work anymore.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Justin Rhoades said:


> I've had about 30-40 guys come and go in my few years running a business. Probably 3/4 of them only work a day or two then don't show up. Of the other half, only 2 gave me 2 weeks notice. The others have just text me that they aren't coming to work anymore.


Just curious... did you check their references from previous employers for work history? They can't give you much on their work ethic, etc. but they can give you how long they were with them, which can help forecast and/or give you information to discuss with the potential concern with the guy you're going to hire...


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## GreenTek (Apr 5, 2018)

griz said:


> all a cross the construction industry th ere is a dire need for experienced people...in ALL facets...
> 
> med/large companies are looking for experienced project managers & estimators.
> 
> ...


For small residential company, what do you think is a fair pay for an experience rough/finish carpenter tooled up?


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

$40/hr


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