# cracked limestone???



## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Tscarborough said:


> It should have been a soft joint from the concrete up through the limestone.


Around by me everyone just pours nonshrink right up to the top.. and I've never had a problem until now..

I guess from now on ill stop with the nonshrink below the limestone.. what do you recommend for a soft joint? Self leveling sika product?

How would you go about fixing this?


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

stonecutter said:


> Consider removing it, then backer and caulk.





Tscarborough said:


> It should have been a soft joint from the concrete up through the limestone.


There you go.

I recommend Sika Flex 1a.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Does anyone recommend me trying to remove the nonshrink and replace with sika flex? Or has the damaged already occurred? Hopefully no more will pop...


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

That is what I have been implying in all my posts.:blink:


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Any recommendations on chipping it out.. that will be a challenge... The biggest thing I'm worried about is the remaining 6 holes cracking.. and most importantly pieces of stone falling off.. hopefully what was going to crack did already and I can just inject epoxy in those cracks now to keep it for cracking any further...


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Drill it out with a small masonry bit or something similar. Cutting and chipping will likely damage the stone.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I feel differently. I would think that the damage is done, if it is in fact from the nonshrink which I am not 100% in concurence with. I would still caulk the joint because the steel and non shrink will never be water proof.

I still think that the coincidence of a freeze and subsequent cracking can't be overlooked. especially since the grouting took place weeks ago. if it were a few days later I could see it but weeks??? I have my doubts

You say that you poured the non shrink in...if it was that liquid it was either low at the railing or level. 3 weeks ago the E coast was very warm, now it is quite cold, the steel could easily have contracted enough to let water in , we've had lots of rain as well with the cooling temps. A cold night can easily crack absorptive stone which many limestones are


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

dom-mas said:


> I feel differently. I would think that the damage is done, if it is in fact from the nonshrink which I am not 100% in concurence with. I would still caulk the joint because the steel and non shrink will never be water proof.


That makes me feel better.. if that's true..

Yes ill caulk with a toolable sika around the nonshrink, limestone, and railing where the cracks occured and epoxy inject the cracks to insure no water will get in there to do further damage.



dom-mas said:


> I still think that the coincidence of a freeze and subsequent cracking can't be overlooked. especially since the grouting took place weeks ago. if it were a few days later I could see it but weeks??? I have my doubts
> 
> You say that you poured the non shrink in...if it was that liquid it was either low at the railing or level. 3 weeks ago the E coast was very warm, now it is quite cold, the steel could easily have contracted enough to let water in , we've had lots of rain as well with the cooling temps. A cold night can easily crack absorptive stone which many limestones are


 
When I poured the nonshrink I made sure I poored to the top then with extra thicker mix and a pointer i made the top of the nonshrink convex so water runs off and can't be traped. 

I agree with the warm wet days and freezing nights.. the aluminum railing is a good conductor of cold and probably shrunk way quicker than the stone that takesway longer to cool off, let the water in and when everything got below freezing the water traped next to the railing popped the limestone..

Which makes me wonder why only 3 of 9 cracked.. just the lucky few that were weaker?


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

dom-mas said:


> contraction of the steel allowing water to get in? Who knows? What type of limestone? really dense or fairly soft? The HO is saying hairline cracks. maybe the stone cracked when you drilled it and now the cracks are expanding due to freezing
> 
> Until you see it yourself it's all conjecture


I think its possible there was minor stress fractures from drilling and they showed during the freeze...

The stone was a very dense limestone and was heavy as hell...

I'm hopping this is the case...


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I wouldn't discount what these other guys are saying... until you get back and take a look it's just guesses.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

No doubt.. ill post pics on Saturday... Thanks everyone


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

We'll agree to disagree on this one Sean, I doubt one or two mild freeze thaw cycles would be enough to crack the stone the way it was described. 

Anyway it's all conjecture until Rich checks it out anyway.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Did you hammer drill the holes or core bore? Always core bore.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm wondering that too


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Just FYI, I was always taught that you need a soft joint when: You have a break in plane or dissimilar materials. That is not exclusive of other conditions, just an easy rule of thumb.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

CJKarl said:


> Did you hammer drill the holes or core bore? Always core bore.


Core drilled a 2" hole... It was a handheld so possibly there was some fractures in the stone from that, which showed after a wet freeze cycle... Maybe.....

I'm flying home tommorow and I'm going to see it first thing Saturday. I'll be armed with epoxy crack repair and sika seal.. post pics then. Thanks guys


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok... So i got there today to check out the problem... Theres sure more than 3 cracks.. 6 out of 9 railings had cracks shooting out from them. Wierd thing though... The steps are an L shape with the bottom part having one railing on the right and the top part having railings on both side.. The left side has 3 cores and not one had a single crack.. The right side has 6 cores and every single one had cracks.. Some had 2 cracks per core and some had 4. 

To me it looks like a freeze issue since the non shrink also was cracked in the direction of the crack. I dont think it was the non shrink expanding which caused the cracks since the left side had zero cracks and also since i used the identical nonshrink in green concrete to anchor railings with no issues during the same timeframe. The railings were saved from the old steps and i couldnt get all the old anchoring material they used off.. Maybe that prevented a waterproof seal? What does it look like to you guys?


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

To to stop the cracks from spreading, waterproof, and to glue everything back together i used a 2part epoxy from polygem called liquid concrete repair.. Worked pretty well. It filled the cracks nicely. I used sikaflex on the faces and undersides to prevent the epoxy from leaking out.. 

Once the epoxy dries, (hopefully tommorow) i will caulk around the railings with sikaflex to insure and waterproof seal.. The cracks look cosmetic and nothing was loose which is good. And the epoxy should glue everything back together.

Stinks this happend..


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

They look like expansion cracks to me...they radiate perfectly from the corners of the post.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

No offense, If that were my house and you sold me those cracks, you'd be ripping them out for sure. :blink:

Any finished pics so you can change my mind?


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