# Electrician nightmare



## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Hello
Actually, I am writing on behalf of my husband. He has worked under his brother's license for 25 years. His brother passed and his took on another partner. My husband did not ever get his license. He has worked under his partners license. Now the problem is he did work for someone that found out that he himself does not have license. He wants a full refund or else he will report him to the state. ......and this person has his on insurance company where my husband took out the gen. liablilty and is threating him with fraud. 

Can my husband work under someone else license or not. He is been 25 + years in this business?

Any suggestions --- we live in GA.


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## RayGoerdt (Nov 13, 2008)

Best thing to do is check with the state.

Depending on the company structure he may be able to work under the partners license.

get the license!


Ray


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

What kind of money are we talking about $50 or $50,000.


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## hungry4knowhow (Jul 25, 2009)

agree with above poster. Check with the state. Alot of times as long as one person in the shop has the license people can work "under him" other side of the stick is that if anything goes wrong its on the person holding the license.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

I am not sure I we are reading this right.Did his brother "pass" like passed on? Or did he pass the test.
Like others have said some states there are no requirements for employees of EC's.
If his brother died (sorry to hear if that is the case) then there may be problems involved with the new partner
and who is covered under the license.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

pass away


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

SelfContract said:


> pass away


If thats the case hopefully the new partner had a valid license.And hopefully it is a state where the actual person doing the work does not need a license but can work for a licensed EC....


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## PGD (May 20, 2009)

If you husband was working for a company (his brother) and the license holder dies, then their must be another "qualifier" to act as a license holder for the company (unless it's a corporation, which I'm sure it wasn't) so if your husbands brother took on a partner before he died, is the partner licensed? If he is then was the company saved by this new qualifier? and is your husband acting as an employee or as a self run business?

If he is acting as an employee for the active license holder (the partner) then their is no problem, the license holder must talk directly to the home owner, because ultimately he is responsible for the job.

If your husband and the partner have nothing to do with one another since his brothers death, then unfortunately your husband is operating an illegal business, and should avoid court if he can.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

It is different state by state.And I am pretty sure that in California that a fairly new law regarding EC's states that all employees of EC's need to be enrolled in certain programs and even may need to pass a test....

http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ECU/EleCat.html#1


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

The OP is in Ga.

Pretty simple to find the answer. I googled "Ga. electrical regulations" to find it. 

If hubby has been doing electrical work for 25 years and can't/won't pass the exam it may be time for him to look into another profession.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> Hello
> Actually, I am writing on behalf of my husband. He has worked under his brother's license for 25 years. His brother passed and his took on another partner. My husband did not ever get his license. He has worked under his partners license. Now the problem is he did work for someone that found out that he himself does not have license. He wants a full refund or else he will report him to the state. ......and this person has his on insurance company where my husband took out the gen. liablilty and is threating him with fraud.
> 
> Can my husband work under someone else license or not. He is been 25 + years in this business?
> ...


If he worked for the company that had a license he is OK, if he borrowed the license and had his own company and does not have a license or was not properly licensed when he did this work, he has a problem.

If your husband is an employee of the company that is licensed and does not do any work other than for the licensed company, he does not need to be licensed.

Is your husband running his own electrical contracting business?


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

And if the guy does report to the state...make sure you tell the prosecutor about the guys extortion attempt...:thumbsup:...that is also illegal


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Two things define the legality of this.

1) the contract/agreement must be made in the name of the licensed company.

2) your husband must be an employee of that company and doing the work for the licensed company. That means, income taxes withheld, fica and futa withheld etc.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks to all, To clarify, My husband's brother passed on (died). He took on a new partner and have been working under his license. He had no need to take the test until now. Application sent in and is on schedule to take the next test which is not until Oct. I will check with ga regulations thanks for that tip. And yes it is extortion, the customer didn't like the plumber or gen. contractors work as well and tore out their work and demanding money from all. He is nuts. 

And this was a verbal contract.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

This may help you http://www.neca-neis.org/state/state_regs.cfm


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Thank you because that is what he is trying to do. This is the only time my husband has ever had an issue.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

No just 2300 but he was paid thru gen contractor who apparently charge more and he is demanding all of it back.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Thank you that is a helpful web site.


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## jbfan (Apr 1, 2004)

In GA, only one person needs to be licensed.
Once that license qualifies a company, you can have all the electricians in the state work for you and be legal.

So, if you're husband was working under the license of his partner, then all is good.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

tlstrick said:


> Thank you that is a helpful web site.


And here is another helpful website: Mike Holt

Your husband may be a fine electrician but everyone needs help passing an electrical exam.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

A verbal contract, as in.... no proof to who actually did the work? Don't even worry about it. It is a he said she said situation if there is no contract. Unless he puts stickers on everything promoting his company.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> Thanks to all, To clarify, My husband's brother passed on (died). He took on a new partner and have been working under his license. He had no need to take the test until now. Application sent in and is on schedule to take the next test which is not until Oct. I will check with ga regulations thanks for that tip. And yes it is extortion, the customer didn't like the plumber or gen. contractors work as well and tore out their work and demanding money from all. He is nuts.
> 
> And this was a verbal contract.


Did the new partner have a license?

Is your husband an employee?

If your husband works for a properly licensed electrical contrctor, he does not need his own license.

If your husband is doing his own work using someone elses license, he needs his own license.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Yeah, I'm still not clear on that.

1) He was doing work for the company under the new partner's license, or....

2) He was doing work for the company and the new partner doesn't have a license, or...

3) He was doing "side" work as an unlicensed electrician.

The op seems to be beating around the bush a bit :shifty:

So, which is it?


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## Mike(VA) (Jan 9, 2008)

And this was a verbal contract. 

After 25 years he does work on a verbal? The liability alone would keep me awake at night knowing I have nothing to fall back on. :no:


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Thank you so much for this information.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

No he did not.

Thanks


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

He was doing under a partner license.
Sorry for the confusion
Also homeowner did not permit job.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

I guess that is the way it is done here in ga. I don't any EC that do contracts. It is the good old boy routine.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I will pass it on to him.


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## davy crockett (Dec 19, 2007)

tell him to start using proposals that become binding when signed and it makes for light work of these homowners from hell when reminded.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> He was doing under a partner license.
> Sorry for the confusion
> Also homeowner did not permit job.


It is the Contractor's job and the subcontractors (Electrician) job to permit the job.

It sounds like a mess, no permit, no contract, possibly a questionable license status
.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

tlstrick said:


> I guess that is the way it is done here in ga. I don't any EC that do contracts. It is the good old boy routine.



I'm in GA as well, and I've always had a contract with my electrician, so there are some who "do contracts". Your guys just probably haven't for 25 years, so it's "normal" (but, wrong) for them.




Jay


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

tlstrick said:


> Hello
> Actually, I am writing on behalf of my husband. He has worked under his brother's license for 25 years. His brother passed and his took on another partner. My husband did not ever get his license. He has worked under his partners license. Now the problem is he did work for someone that found out that he himself does not have license. He wants a full refund or else he will report him to the state. ......and this person has his on insurance company *where my husband took out the gen. liablilty* and is threating him with fraud.
> 
> Can my husband work under someone else license or not. He is been 25 + years in this business?
> ...


If your husband was working for the company, under the new partner's license, why was your husband taking out the insurance....and not "the company"?

_Who is the client supposed to be writing the check to?_


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

That is good advice and probably would not be an issue if that had taken place.
Thanks


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

He is working under his partner's license. He the homeowner didn't want a county inspection or permits. No contracts that is not the way these folks do business here. Maybe they should, but it always I have this to so come and do it type of situation. My husband and the gen. contractor is taking this letter to an attorney for his opinion. The client owns a insurance company and has threaten both my husband with insurance fraud. Are there not Ethics in Insurance? Could this guy be reported to the state for Ethics Violations? Not calling any names but he a independent in Jasper, GA.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

He works as a partner under his partner's license.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Let's try again....

Who would *this* client be writing *the check to* (if he was writing a check)??? 

Why does your husband have a liability policy *under his own name*?


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## hungry4knowhow (Jul 25, 2009)

I have a Liability Policy under my own name and Liability in the business name.

Something about if you the owner are doing the work and theres a screw up the corporate veil can be pierced. If employee screws up it wont be. I'd have to talk to my Attorney again for specifics.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Don't go muddying the waters now :laughing: I want to know what the deal is from the op...seems a little difficult to do. :whistling


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## hungry4knowhow (Jul 25, 2009)

you saying I just gave them an out? my bad :shutup:


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> He is working under his partner's license. He the homeowner didn't want a county inspection or permits. No contracts that is not the way these folks do business here. Maybe they should, but it always I have this to so come and do it type of situation. My husband and the gen. contractor is taking this letter to an attorney for his opinion. The client owns a insurance company and has threaten both my husband with insurance fraud. Are there not Ethics in Insurance? Could this guy be reported to the state for Ethics Violations? Not calling any names but he a independent in Jasper, GA.


I don't see where the insurance fraud is.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Holy christ. Can someone translate this thread to english?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:laughing:


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## RayGoerdt (Nov 13, 2008)

mahlere said:


> Holy christ. Can someone translate this thread to english?


 
Sure, its easy,..................................:blink:

sorry, no I can't:no:


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

J F said:


> If your husband was working for the company, under the new partner's license, why was your husband taking out the insurance....and not "the company"?
> 
> _Who is the client supposed to be writing the check to?_


 
I GUESS I JUST NOT BEING CLEAR AMONST ALL THE CONFUSION GOING ON HERE. 

MY HUSBAND IS PARTNER WITH THE GUY WITH THE LICENSE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS AND I JUST A WIFE LOOKING IN THAT THE COMPANY IS REQUIRED NOW TO HAV GEN. LIABILITY AND ALSO THAT CLIENTS REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE GEN LIABILITY.
PLEASE DON'T MAKE FUN IT IS A SERIOUS SITUATION AND HAS CALLED ALOT OF STRESS. BY THE WAY THE FUNDS WAS PAID TO THE GEN. CONTRACTOR WHO PAID MY HUSBAND OUT OF HIS FUNDS.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

bwalley said:


> I don't see where the insurance fraud is.


 
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU LOOKED AT EARLIER NOTES. THE CLIENT IS THREATENING TO TURN MY HUSBAND IN FOR INSURANCE FRAUD TO GET HIS MONEY BACK FOR THIS JOB. HE THE CLIENT OWN HIS OWN INSURANCE BROKERAGE COMPANY WHERE MY HUSBAND AND ACTUALLY THE GEN. CONTRACTOR TOOK OUT GEN. LIABILITY. THE CLIENT IS SAYING MY HUSBAND IS NOT A LICENSE ELECTRICAN SO THEREFORE HE SHOULD NOT BE TAKING OUT GEN. LIABILITY AND THEREFORE HE HAS COMMITTED FRAUD BY DOING SO. :shutup:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Your husband can take out any kind of insurance he wants. He can go and get a medical malpractice insurance policy if he wanted. But all he will be doing is paying the premiums. It doesn't give him the right to practice medicine. If your husband was working under his partners license, properly, then he can have any insurance he wants. To commit fraud in insurance you need to submit a baseless claim and try to collect.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

tlstrick said:


> BY THE WAY THE FUNDS WAS PAID TO THE GEN. CONTRACTOR WHO PAID MY HUSBAND OUT OF HIS FUNDS.


Has the GC been asked to refund the $$? First claim would be against him.

I hope hubby is learning something about contracts that will help him going forward.

Good Luck
Dave


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU LOOKED AT EARLIER NOTES. THE CLIENT IS THREATENING TO TURN MY HUSBAND IN FOR INSURANCE FRAUD TO GET HIS MONEY BACK FOR THIS JOB. HE THE CLIENT OWN HIS OWN INSURANCE BROKERAGE COMPANY WHERE MY HUSBAND AND ACTUALLY THE GEN. CONTRACTOR TOOK OUT GEN. LIABILITY. THE CLIENT IS SAYING MY HUSBAND IS NOT A LICENSE ELECTRICAN SO THEREFORE HE SHOULD NOT BE TAKING OUT GEN. LIABILITY AND THEREFORE HE HAS COMMITTED FRAUD BY DOING SO. :shutup:


Just because your husband buying liability inurance, without having a license, does not mean he committed insurance fraud.

I would tell the Homeowner to call the insurance commisoner and anyone else he thinks would care about it, if it makes him feel better, but I wouldn't give the guy any money back.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

nOW i'M rEALLY cORNfUSED....bUT mAyBE yOUr hUSbAND sHOUlD bE fIne :blink:

Hopefully it all works out, good luck.


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## Mitch M (Dec 4, 2006)

tlstrick said:


> I GUESS I JUST NOT BEING CLEAR AMONST ALL THE CONFUSION GOING ON HERE.
> 
> MY HUSBAND IS PARTNER WITH THE GUY WITH THE LICENSE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS AND I JUST A WIFE LOOKING IN THAT THE COMPANY IS REQUIRED NOW TO HAV GEN. LIABILITY AND ALSO THAT CLIENTS REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE GEN LIABILITY.
> PLEASE DON'T MAKE FUN IT IS A SERIOUS SITUATION AND HAS CALLED ALOT OF STRESS. BY THE WAY THE FUNDS WAS PAID TO THE GEN. CONTRACTOR WHO PAID MY HUSBAND OUT OF HIS FUNDS.


If I were you, I would not worry about a thing. If the electrical contractor does not have insurance then usually the GC will cover it. However, unless it is in the spec and it is absolutely required by the owner then you do not have to have it unless law mandates it. If the owner allowed him to start work without the certificate then he is just as much at fault as anyone. My policy as well as others I know will not allow anyone to start until a certificate is on file.

As for the licensing thing, as long as at least one qualifier for the company is licensed, then you are covered. Which it sounds like the partner was licensed. The HO is blowing a lot of smoke. If he insists then tell him that is fine but to make sure there are no problems your husband needs to take everything back out. :thumbsup: And there will be a charge for that. :clap:

Of course we only hear one side of the story but we believe you. don't fret over it. If the HO wants to keep pushing it, let the attorney deal with it. Whatever happens, do not let him win, unless there is in fact a legal issue there.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

Mitch M said:


> If I were you, I would not worry about a thing. If the electrical contractor does not have insurance then usually the GC will cover it. However, unless it is in the spec and it is absolutely required by the owner then you do not have to have it unless law mandates it. If the owner allowed him to start work without the certificate then he is just as much at fault as anyone. My policy as well as others I know will not allow anyone to start until a certificate is on file.
> 
> As for the licensing thing, as long as at least one qualifier for the company is licensed, then you are covered. Which it sounds like the partner was licensed. The HO is blowing a lot of smoke. If he insists then tell him that is fine but to make sure there are no problems your husband needs to take everything back out. :thumbsup: And there will be a charge for that. :clap:
> 
> Of course we only hear one side of the story but we believe you. don't fret over it. If the HO wants to keep pushing it, let the attorney deal with it. Whatever happens, do not let him win, unless there is in fact a legal issue there.


The General Contractor and all of his subs are required to have General Liability insurance, the electrician needs their own policy


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

...just what we needed....a little bit of "clarification" ...now you've gone and done it


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

I'm sending my degree back to Rutgers...cause obviously it's useless since I can't understand muckety muck...


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

you didn't really think that was gonna help you, did you??! ya fvkn goober...:w00t:


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

:blink:Three pages into this thread and I still am not sure if the husband is in the right or in the wrong.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

JumboJack said:


> :blink:Three pages into this thread and I still am not sure if the husband is in the right or in the wrong.


i'm not even sure what the actual problem is...let alone who's right or wrong...


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you've got a very good chance of being correct....just sayin' :whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I _really hate_ to agree with how good you are....any bribes comin' my way?:whistling


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

I think he has learned alot. Good info. on the insurance. I have got another question!!!! ...... and I am the wife again trying to make sense of some of this stuff. Apparently (and I am just finding this out) even if you are partners and one has license and the other does not THE ONE WITH THE LICENSE HAS TO LOOK AT THE JOB BEFORE AND AFTER COMPLETION. 

ANY TAKERS CORRECT OR NOT IN GA.


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## jbfan (Apr 1, 2004)

tlstrick said:


> I think he has learned alot. Good info. on the insurance. I have got another question!!!! ...... and I am the wife again trying to make sense of some of this stuff. Apparently (and I am just finding this out) even if you are partners and one has license and the other does not THE ONE WITH THE LICENSE HAS TO LOOK AT THE JOB BEFORE AND AFTER COMPLETION.
> 
> ANY TAKERS CORRECT OR NOT IN GA.


Yes, No, Not really.
The license holder has to be availabe duriong normal working hours if needed to oversse the job, but large electrical companys have only one license holder, and That person will never have time to look at each and every job his company does.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

so from what i gather, this is the cliffs notes:

The company your husband is a partner in and works for has an electrical licence and insurance. nothing wrong here.
The HO wants the money he paid the GC back from the electrician because the electrician took out extra insurance? HO has no merit for any sort of claim here as he does not hold the contract (verbal in this case) with the electrical contractor.

the problem here is if you try to report this guy, the GC will get nailed for not having a permit. the EC will also get nailed for no electrical permit and no inspections. which is what the HO is counting on.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

chris klee said:


> so from what i gather, this is the cliffs notes:
> 
> The company your husband is a partner in and works for has an electrical licence and insurance. nothing wrong here.
> The HO wants the money he paid the GC back from the electrician because the electrician took out extra insurance? HO has no merit for any sort of claim here as he does not hold the contract (verbal in this case) with the electrical contractor.
> ...


I think that just about sums it up...Case closed.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Thank You

You know that makes sense to me. Is there anything in writing that can be printed. My issues with this whole thing is (besides the threats) he is demanding more money back than what was paid to my husband. The funds was paid to the GC and my husband was paid. The GC swears he only received a portion of the money. My advice to my husband is talk with the HO/Insurance Company Owner and see what was actually paid. It don't make sense to me to pay more back than what you received. My thinking is the GC is holding the money that should have paid to my husband and if he agrees to give his portion back he still not losing anything because he has my husband part that he would have made on the completion of the job. Plus the HO has given him to Aug. 5 to do this. Money is an issue with us right now, because I am not working and his has slowed down to nothing. Usually the one more money wins anyway and I know what my bank accounts looks like.


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## ARI001 (Jun 16, 2009)

If the GC has a contract with HO it should have stated in the contract who was responsible for obtaining the permits. Normally it is the GC's responsibility to obtain the necessary permits. Also the contract was between the GC and the HO not your husbands company and the HO. Any monitary compinsation the HO wishes to receive will come from the GC not your husbands company. The GC may come after your husbands company but with no written contract between you and the GC it would probably cost him more in legal fees to collect it than its worth.

You are probably still going to end up paying some sort of fines to the building department for working with out the proper permits. You may also get fines and face disaplinary actions from the state regulatory board for improper contracting procedures and not following state laws and regulations; pertaining to the lack of permit(s). 

If I where you I would tell the HO verbally you will not be issuing any funds to them, that their contract is with the GC, and they need to address any isssues they have with the GC. Don't put anything in writing to the HO as it could then be viewed that you and the HO had some kind of contractural agreement if you do. As I said earlier you are probably going to have some issues with the state so you may has well swallow your pill, accept that which you have no control over, and learn from the situation.

As far as the HO is concerned if I where you I would file criminal charges against them for extortion and blackmail. Explaine your situation to the DA and take your lumps, they will be far less painful then the HO's. At least then the HO won't get away with his part in all of this and you won't feel like you got completely raked over the coals.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

I think what my husband is afraid of is the HO reporting to the state. 
My understanding in GA and this comes from info from an earlier post my husband don't have to have his own license as long as his partner does. 
The partner never looked at the job according to a earlier post is no big deal. 
The HO is looking at my husband as just a handy man and should be paid those wages. 
No contract between any parties. HO did not want one done. Even thou my husband has been in this business for more than 25 years and never ever had problems passing county inspection he is still not license and should not ever been allowed in his house that is according to the HO. 
My husband if any thing is a neat freak when it comes to his work. 
My husband is schedule to take the test this fall, however now he is concerned this HO may screw that up. 

What would the state do?


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> I think what my husband is afraid of is the HO reporting to the state.
> My understanding in GA and this comes from info from an earlier post my husband don't have to have his own license as long as his partner does.
> The partner never looked at the job according to a earlier post is no big deal.
> The HO is looking at my husband as just a handy man and should be paid those wages.
> ...


It sounds like the company your husband worked for on this job was properly licensed, and he does not need a license since he is an employee of the company.

The state will probably tell the HO there is no basis for his complaint, they may send a questionaire out to your husbands company asking for some basic information.


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## Lighting Retro (Mar 25, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> Thanks to all, To clarify, My husband's brother passed on (died). He took on a new partner and have been working under his license. He had no need to take the test until now. Application sent in and is on schedule to take the next test which is not until Oct. I will check with ga regulations thanks for that tip. And yes it is extortion, the customer didn't like the plumber or gen. contractors work as well and tore out their work and demanding money from all. He is nuts.
> 
> And this was a verbal contract.


:w00t:

I wish this was still a good way to business, but it would seem you have put yourself in harm's way on this one. Haven't read the whole thing, but hope this works out for you with minimal pain.


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## LetItBeLEED (Aug 18, 2008)

1) Hubby needs a new insurance agent

2) Only cheats and people who like legal hassles work on verbal contracts

3) I assume at home ya'll speak something besides English. This sounds like someone trying to squeeze non English speakers for money. Your best protection against that is to communicate only on paper.

4) You are threatened with "INSURANCE FRAUD". Ok.... Insurance fraud is a serious claim. If the basis of this claim is that your hubby paid the insurance agent for a policy when he did not have a license, then that's ridiculous and if you don't know that then you should have an attorney helping you set up and run the administrative side of your business or you should not be in business. On the other hand, if your hubby submitted a claim under the policy and the company paid money to someone regarding that claim then you may have a real problem and you should...... well, what I would do is absolutely nothing until I was served with legal papers. Anyone can shout, after all. If I were served with legal papers only then would I worry and the first thing I would do is talk to an attorney who knows about insurance fraud and is fluent in your 1st language as well as English. Incidentally, if your hubby did do something criminal, then the insurance agent is asking for a bribe to conceal the agent's knowledge of the crime. That itself is a crime. 

LetItBeLeed


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## ARI001 (Jun 16, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> I think what my husband is afraid of is the HO reporting to the state.
> My understanding in GA and this comes from info from an earlier post my husband don't have to have his own license as long as his partner does.
> The partner never looked at the job according to a earlier post is no big deal.
> The HO is looking at my husband as just a handy man and should be paid those wages.
> ...


Regardless of the contract issue the GC paid you so you where not dealing with the HO, the canceled check is proof of this. The HO can look at things however he wants if what you said in your previous posts are true your husband was working legally within his trade. The majority of "electricians" working on job sites are not master electricians and are working under the license of the "master electrician". I would as I said tell the HO that you have no contract with him and that you will not be refunding any money to him. The GC paid you not the HO, therefor the HO must deal with the GC. 

You're really looking at only two violations if all that you have said is true. The first is in regards to your contracting procedure(s). A verbal contract may or may not hold up in court. That is not the issue at hand. The issue is moast states require a contractor to use a wriiten contract by law. Most states also set forth the minimum requirements as to what must be on said contract. If you did not have a written contract and your state is one that requires you do, then you are in violation of that. 

The regulatory board may fine you, suspend your companies contractors license (note this is different from a trade license), and in serious cases may forward information on to the state DA for criminal prosicution. In your case; if this is a first offense most likely you will get a fine as long as you respond to the board and don't try ignoring them. 

The second issue you have is performing work requiring a permit unpermitted. The board has the same disiplinary actions available to them. In addition the county the work was performed in may fine all parties for the violation (including the HO). 

I think this guy is full of hot air. He has no case for insurance fraud. If he really wants to pursue it tell him he can speak with your attourney about the matter. As for the refund tell him to put it in writing that he wants you to refund the money he paid the GC for electrical work you performed on behalf of the GC or that you are guilty of insurance fraud. If he is dumb enough to do this take the letter to the DA. If not I would still see the DA about pressing charges against him.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Is the GC *not licensed by the state*, by any chance ? :whistling

GA just started requiring contractor licensing in July 2008, you can verify here.

https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/myverification/Search.aspx?facility=Y

If the contractor isn't licensed (or have a licensed agent) he cannot pull a permit and cannot legally enter into any contract over $2,500.

I don't know if this has anything to do with the situation, just curious.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

LetItBeLEED said:


> Only cheats and people who like legal hassles work on verbal contracts


What are you, a flippin' lawyer? That's what I would expect to hear from one of them, not a real-life working stiff.

Verbal/handshake contracts are a time-honored tradition in this country, and still very much in vogue in many areas. You try whipping out a 37 page contract on those folks, and you'll be shown the door quicker'n you can say "Just sign here."

There's no denying that written legal documents are often called for in many areas of today's litigious society, or if your radar is warning you about a particular client, but that statement is just plain wrong. :no:


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

LetItBeLEED said:


> 1)
> 
> 2) Only cheats and people who like legal hassles work on verbal contracts


I have a client that I have done 1 million dollar commercial projects for on a handshake.

I am not worried about getting burned, I trust the guy and he trusts me.

Most cases a contract is a good idea.


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## LetItBeLEED (Aug 18, 2008)

OK, fine, let's change that to: "Only cheats, people who like legal hassles, and people who haven't yet been sufficiently burned to know better work without contracts" How hard is it to get someone to sign a 1-page simple thing that identifies who what when where? It doesn't HAVE to be oodles of pages of fine print to save your butt from most of the crap that comes up.

In the case in this thread, a simple one pager would make it crystal clear what the relationships were between the various players. It's simple, it's professional, and it's fast, so why the heck not?


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

My husband and by the way he is not the only one that does that here is just a good old boy with your word is as good as your bond. There was no fraud committed. It just intimadation from the insurance angent to get his money back. My husband has spoken to an attorney who told him there was no insurance fraud. I call the state today. My husband is legal, his partner is a Electrical License holder. and my husband can work under his license. The Insurance Agent/HO apparently does not know that. He also has threaten to take him before the Magistrate Judge for what.. who knows... I guess he felt like he was done wrong. By the Way this work was done in March of this year and he just now sending a letter out to GC with these issues.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Letter in Hand.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

To my knowledge he is licence GC


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## ARI001 (Jun 16, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> What are you, a flippin' lawyer? That's what I would expect to hear from one of them, not a real-life working stiff.
> 
> Verbal/handshake contracts are a time-honored tradition in this country, and still very much in vogue in many areas. You try whipping out a 37 page contract on those folks, and you'll be shown the door quicker'n you can say "Just sign here."
> 
> There's no denying that written legal documents are often called for in many areas of today's litigious society, or if your radar is warning you about a particular client, but that statement is just plain wrong. :no:


While I don't agree with the comment you where replying to it is considered bad business practice to work without the protection of a written contract. Additionally now many states require you to have a written contract. If someone is unwilling to sign a contract that states each parties rights and responsibilities they are either ignorant or up to no good. That is how a lot of hacks and scam artists are able to take advantage of people on both sides of the equation. 

Like it or not you are in the business of "contracting". That is why it is called a contractors license and not a construction license. It is imperative to the well being of your business that you operate in a manner that will protect said business. Anytime you perform services on someones property without a written contract you jeopardize the well being of your company and may be violating the law.

You take a big risk when you start a company, why make that risk any bigger then necessary? Yes, word of mouth contracts are enforceable in court, but they cost a lot of money in lawyer fees in what essentially comes down to a he said she said argument. You don't need a 37 page contract for a small job, but you should have at least a 1 page work order.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

tlstrick said:


> To my knowledge he is licence GC



Does he show up on the state site I posted?

https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/myverification/Search.aspx?facility=Y


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

NOT GOOD He is not there. He had told my husband he was license. Crap.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

mikeswoods said:


> Smile, relax, do not worry. Fix your self a tall cold drink. Let the contractor worry,sip your drink.
> 
> Come on you can do it! MIKE


 
GC IS FRIENDS WITH MY HUSBAND AND HUSBAND DON'T WANT ANYONE TO BURN FOR HIM (RIGHT OR WRONG)

THE DRINK SOUNDS NICE. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE STRONGER THAN ICE TEA LOL:thumbsup:


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Please heed my advice. Do not talk to this man. It is not wise. 
You are too worked up over this to think clearly. Please ask a lawyer for his opinion.

If he doesn't back up my words I will eat my truck. MIKE


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Go pour that cold drink!!!!


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

mikeswoods said:


> Please heed my advice. Do not talk to this man. It is not wise.
> You are too worked up over this to think clearly. Please ask a lawyer for his opinion.
> 
> If he doesn't back up my words I will eat my truck. MIKE


 
ATTORNEY SAID IT WOULD BE CHEAPER TO PAY HO
IT WILL COST MORE IN ATTORNEY FEES.

HUSBAND WAS PD $2300 BY GC
BUT HO WANTS $3300 + 10%:furious:


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

mikeswoods said:


> Go pour that cold drink!!!!


 

I HAVE THE VODKA BUT NOTHING TO GO WITH IT,
UMH :clap:


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Boy do those lawyers know how to charge. I still say you are in the clear. 

Get a new insurance guy real quick! What a nightmare.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

tlstrick said:


> :clap:
> 
> DIDN'T MEAN TO CONFUSE ANYONE.


Okay....can you "copy" and "paste" my reply into your reply (not "quote)...but with the answers...I think it might help... it is a ton of fun, huh? :laughing:


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

1) HomeOwner contracted with ___GC_________ for the project.

2) HomeOwner contracted with ____GC________ for the electrical wor

3) Husband did the electrical work while working for: The electrical company he works for/is a partner in (which IS licensed)
.

4) The electrical portion of the project was paid to __GC_______________, by the HomeOwner.

It would definitely help clarify things, at least to me. You can copy and paste this post, then edit with the answers, thanks.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> 1) HomeOwner contracted with ___GC_________ for the project.
> 
> 2) HomeOwner contracted with ____GC________ for the electrical wor
> 
> ...


Tell the HO to take up any issues he has with the GC.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

The only problem i see and this is according to the state of ga. The licencee has to oversee the job. Can't prove it. As it would turn out he didn't look at this particular job. Go figure. .....husband working for licence contractor covered. Huband taking out gen. Libility covered. (he didn't use the ins. Therefor no fraud committed). 
No permits pulled (ho didn't want them pulled)

how do you get around the licencess not seeing the job?
Anytakers.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> The only problem i see and this is according to the state of ga. The licencee has to oversee the job. Can't prove it. As it would turn out he didn't look at this particular job. Go figure. .....husband working for licence contractor covered. Huband taking out gen. Libility covered. (he didn't use the ins. Therefor no fraud committed).
> No permits pulled (ho didn't want them pulled)
> 
> how do you get around the licencess not seeing the job?
> Anytakers.


I think you are worried too much.

If your husbands employer did not properly oversee the job, that is not your husbands problem.

Why are you so worked up about the HO making a bunch of idle threats?

If you want to give the HO money that is fine but you have been told several times that your husband did nothing wrong, yet you still worry about it.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

If your husbands employer did not properly oversee the job, that is not your husbands problem.

Why are you so worked up about the HO making a bunch of idle threats?

1. NOT A LARGE COMPANY. HUSBAND AND PARTNER THATS IT. HE CAN'T LAY IT OFF TO HIS PARTNER. NO MORE PARTNER NO WORK.

2. HO IS INSURANCE ANGENT WHO OWNS HIS OWN INSURANCE COMPANY. THAT IS WERE THE FRAUD COME IN. HE IS SAYING MY HUSBAND MIS REPRESENTED HIMSELF AS A ELECTRICIAN AND HE DIDN'T MENTION PARTNER ON INS. APP. 

3. AND YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T SEE EARLIER POST. IF HO DIDN'T GET HIS MONEY BACK THEN HE WAS GOING TO DO ALL THESE THINGS.
REPORTING HUSBAND TO STATE, GOING TO THE MAGISTRATE, ETC.

I CAN LOOK ON AND SAY TELL HIM TO KISS MY ___. 

BUT AGAIN ONE PARTNER WHO IS LICENSE. GC WHO IS SUPPOSE TO BE FRIEND.
HUSBAND DON'T WANT TO BURN ANYONE, "BUT DON'T WANT TO CUT OFF HIS NOSE TO SPITE HIS FACE".


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tlstrick said:


> If your husbands employer did not properly oversee the job, that is not your husbands problem.
> 
> Why are you so worked up about the HO making a bunch of idle threats?
> 
> ...


If you are so worried, write the guy a check but if I was in your shoes I would report the Insurance Agent to the Insurance commisioner because it appears he is trying to extort money from your husband.

Another thing you may want to do is contact the magistrate and let him know what the HO is trying to pull, and he may very well be the one getting arrested.

Your husband works for or is partners with a licensed electrician, he broke no laws by doing that.

Your husband cannot be charged with insurance fraid for buying a policy.

I hope you well, but I am done trying to help you, you seem to think your husband did something wrong when he didn't and if you are too scared to stand up for yourself and do what is right, you get what you get.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

I hope you well, but I am done trying to help you, you seem to think your husband did something wrong when he didn't and if you are too scared to stand up for yourself and do what is right, you get what you get. 

MY HUSBAND IS A GOOD MAN. IF IT WAS ME I WOULD DO ALL THAT YOU SAID. THIS IS MY HUSBAND'S DECISION TO MAKE NOT MINE. 
I WOULD REPORT HIM AND MAY YET. I WOULD TAKE IT TO MAGISTRATE OR DA. 
I DON'T THINK THIS WILL GO AWAY WITH THE CHECK.
I KNOW MY HUSBAND DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
I CAN'T MAKE MY HUSBAND DO ANYTHING. BIG BOY.

THANKS ANYWAY.


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## RayGoerdt (Nov 13, 2008)

I agree with BWalley, I also strongly urge you to report this as an extortion attempt.

Even if something was not done by the books on the part of your Husband or his partner, there are ways to correct it and extortion is NOT one of them. 

The "friendship" between your Husband and the GC should go both ways, in fact the GC (in my opinion) should be more willing to protect your Husband being as your Husband works under him.

Please consider the advice that has been given to you, (many times)
Relax, don't talk to the HO, Report him, and don't give him a dime!

Good Luck

Ray


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks to all

i have learned plenty.

Maybe i can persuade the hubby.


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## Mitch M (Dec 4, 2006)

I am afraid I have to agree too. It appears that most of the advice on here has been to let it go. If you pay him, this guy may try to do something else. I am tired of attorneys telling people that it will cost more than to settle. Sometimes for principle you have to fight as long as you are right. Then you sue them in court for attorney fees. In other words, put up or shut up.

The more I think about it. I think he made a mistake somewhere and needs some money and he sees your husband as a weakling and he is going to try and get some money back.

We are now on 6 pages and the advice is getting redundant. We are pulling for you but we understand it is your husband's decision. However, you are part of this as well as it is your livelihood if he has to pay or not. I don't think there is anything else to say. We can all argue the same thing over until we are blue in the face but we are not getting anywhere.

My advice now is to STOP. Let things settle down. See if anything else comes up with it from the client. Then direct him to the GC and let him fight the battle. If he does file a complaint talk with an attorney and then decide on the course of action. Whatever you do, do not talk with the client anymore. 

And one last pc of advice, this post probably needs to stop. As you may not know but some others on here do, a good attorney can find a lot of potentially damaging evidence on the internet now which could hurt your case. We all still believe your husband is in the right but at some point you have to call the bluff.


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## tlstrick (Jul 26, 2009)

I found this link just searching for info. 

You are right I have repeated myself thru out this post. 

My questions was simply could my husband work without a license in GA under someone else.

I got the info. I needed. 

Thanks.


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