# Builder didn't seal grout in new home - is this a common practice?



## svankirk (Nov 17, 2017)

Hi folks,

Last week a customer called me to have me seal the grout in his home, which is new construction. Turns out the builder didn't seal any of the grout in the house. He intentionally left this up to the clients, even telling them which product to use to seal it. And FWIW, it doesn't sound like this was a pre-arranged, agreed-upon thing. The clients were a bit surprised that they couldn't just move in and use their new shower.

So here's my question: is this a standard practice for new construction, or was this just a cost-savings measure taken by the builder?

Thanks,

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Unmodified or treated grout has been around for hundreds of years. It's my understanding that it takes about 20 minutes of water to actually penetrate to the back surface. There are penetrating sealers or topical sealers that could change the color.

Obviously nowadays we have Superior grout pre-mixed with stain resistance. Lot of the waterproofing methods we use now are redundant as extra precaution.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I don't think anybody could answer your question about standard practice. Most of the people I know and myself use power grout which is already treated


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Conventional sanded or unsanded portland based grout?


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## svankirk (Nov 17, 2017)

Thanks, guys - I appreciate the replies. 

I haven't done the job yet and I'm not sure what kind of grout. I just know that in this situation the builder himself said the grout should be sealed before use. So presumably he used grout that needs sealing, yet for whatever reason is leaving it to the client to do that. 

I'm trying to keep an open mind & not assume the worst. But to me it's like saying, "Oh - you wanted a _head_ on that shower? You're going go have to install that yourself," or, "Oh - you wanted _stain_ on that trim? You're going to have to do that yourself."

Please correct me if my thinking is off, here.

Thanks!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

My answer in the form of a question: Why do *YOU* think it needs to be sealed?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

It can take a few days for adequate curing and sealing, depending on products. I've seen plenty that time didn't allow for it.


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## svankirk (Nov 17, 2017)

I think what you're saying is that I should contact the builder, find out what kind of grout was used, and formulate my own opinion as to whether it should be sealed? If so, I can do that. The job isn't scheduled until the end of next week.

Thus far I haven't, though. It was a random call that came in from a guy who said, "Hey - can you seal my grout? The builder didn't do it but said it needed to be done and even told me which product to use." 

My original question was really just whether or not this is a common practice - leaving it to the customer to seal the grout? But so far replies suggest there may not be a standard practice.


Thanks,

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

It's probably basic cement-based grout since the builder mentioned it. No big deal. Seal it, if you want. Folks have been using tiled bathrooms for ages without getting them sealed, anyway.

It's not common practice around here. Most tile guys still won't even mention it.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

svankirk said:


> I think what you're saying is that I should contact the builder, find out what kind of grout was used, and formulate my own opinion as to whether it should be sealed? If so, I can do that. The job isn't scheduled until the end of next week.
> 
> Thus far I haven't, though. It was a random call that came in from a guy who said, "Hey - can you seal my grout? The builder didn't do it but said it needed to be done and even told me which product to use."
> 
> ...


If you wanna make a buck, seal it. If you don’t, make a stink about it on the interwebs and with the builder. Your choice.


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## David the Inspector (Apr 27, 2021)

svankirk said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Last week a customer called me to have me seal the grout in his home, which is new construction. Turns out the builder didn't seal any of the grout in the house. He intentionally left this up to the clients, even telling them which product to use to seal it. And FWIW, it doesn't sound like this was a pre-arranged, agreed-upon thing. The clients were a bit surprised that they couldn't just move in and use their new shower.
> 
> ...



All grout needs to be sealed.. Any grout product that claims you don't need to seal it is just a marketing gimmick.. All grouts will erode over time if its constantly being hit with water such as in the shower.. Floor tile grout isn't as big of a deal if sealed or not.. Anyone that says "its a special type of grout that doesn't need to be sealed" is either not smart or lazy.. Every time I ask a builder why they don't seal the grout its the same dumb answer.. Its just our policy and make tell buyers upfront when they buy the house.. So long story short seal your grout because in a few years you'll regret it if you don't.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

David the Inspector said:


> All grout needs to be sealed.. Any grout product that claims you don't need to seal it is just a marketing gimmick.. All grouts will erode over time if its constantly being hit with water such as in the shower.. Floor tile grout isn't as big of a deal if sealed or not.. Anyone that says "its a special type of grout that doesn't need to be sealed" is either not smart or lazy.. Every time I ask a builder why they don't seal the grout its the same dumb answer.. Its just our policy and make tell buyers upfront when they buy the house.. So long story short seal your grout because in a few years you'll regret it if you don't.


I 100% disagree. Grout sealing is the gimmick. It is a (very) temporary bandage to a bigger issue. Cementitious grout is simply an inferior product. Its porosity is what makes it a problem and aside from a very few topical applied products, sealing is futile.

All grout does _not_ need to be sealed. Urethane, siliconized and epoxy grouts technically can't be sealed. Their PERM ratings are so low, sealers can't penetrate them.

So long story short, don't use cementitious grout in the first place and you won't have to rely on a topical chemical to make an inferior product pretend to be better. Use the proper grout in the first place so you don't have to regret anything in a few years.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

David the Inspector said:


> All grout needs to be sealed.. Any grout product that claims you don't need to seal it is just a marketing gimmick.. All grouts will erode over time if its constantly being hit with water such as in the shower.. Floor tile grout isn't as big of a deal if sealed or not.. Anyone that says "its a special type of grout that doesn't need to be sealed" is either not smart or lazy.. Every time I ask a builder why they don't seal the grout its the same dumb answer.. Its just our policy and make tell buyers upfront when they buy the house.. So long story short seal your grout because in a few years you'll regret it if you don't.


You don't have a clue inspector.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

David the Inspector said:


> All grout needs to be sealed.. Any grout product that claims you don't need to seal it is just a marketing gimmick.. All grouts will erode over time if its constantly being hit with water such as in the shower.. Floor tile grout isn't as big of a deal if sealed or not.. Anyone that says "its a special type of grout that doesn't need to be sealed" is either not smart or lazy.. Every time I ask a builder why they don't seal the grout its the same dumb answer.. Its just our policy and make tell buyers upfront when they buy the house.. So long story short seal your grout because in a few years you'll regret it if you don't.


I'm screwed.....

Tom


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

“Home Inspector” would be my guess. 🙄

David, education is your friend. Don’t fear it, embrace it.

Either that, or stick to whatever it is that you might be good at. Probably not inspections.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

why not ask the contractor ? could be good info here . like what client is like . not unheard of for a client to get some info wrong .


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## Half-fast Eddie (Aug 21, 2020)

David the Inspector said:


> .. All grouts will erode over time if its constantly being hit with water


Really? I never knew that. Which reality tv show explained that process?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Cementitious with enough acrylic added is pretty much waterproof.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

hdavis said:


> Cementitious with enough acrylic added is pretty much waterproof.


You cannot change the chemical makeup of powdered cement grouts enough with an additive to alter its performance in regards to water absorption. Can you make it "better"? Sure. Can you turn water into wine? Nope. It's still permeable, susceptible to staining and not waterproof.


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

angus242 said:


> You cannot change the chemical makeup of powdered cement grouts enough with an additive to alter its performance in regards to water absorption. Can you make it "better"? Sure. Can you turn water into wine? Nope. It's still permeable, susceptible to staining and not waterproof.


The question should be, is it waterproof enough? Grout doesn't need to be waterproof, it only needs to be water resistant. No one depends on grout to create a water proof shower system because everyone knows it doesn't work. That's why we create the actual moisture barrier in or behind the substrate. If you're looking for a waterproof surface you shouldn't be using tile at all.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

angus242 said:


> You cannot change the chemical makeup of powdered cement grouts enough with an additive to alter its performance in regards to water absorption. Can you make it "better"? Sure. Can you turn water into wine? Nope. It's still permeable, susceptible to staining and not waterproof.


Since there are cementitious water proofing products developed and sold for that purpose, a broad brush about cementitious products not capable of being waterproof is a little contrary to actual practice.

I'm not arguing that cementitious grout is the best way to go, it isn't.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Pounder said:


> The question should be, is it waterproof enough? Grout doesn't need to be waterproof, it only needs to be water resistant. No one depends on grout to create a water proof shower system because everyone knows it doesn't work. That's why we create the actual moisture barrier in or behind the substrate. If you're looking for a waterproof surface you shouldn't be using tile at all.


I think that misses the point. Firstly, I didn't claim grout should be waterproof, I was adding my opinion from my experiences that cementitious grout cannot be made waterproof with additives. I completely agree, waterproofing needs to be addressed under the tile. The point that brought me into this conversation was the merit of sealing portland grout. I still says it's a waste and the thought of making it actually waterproof isn't something I'd waste any time on trying to accomplish.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

hdavis said:


> Since there are cementitious water proofing products developed and sold for that purpose, a broad brush about cementitious products not capable of being waterproof is a little contrary to actual practice.


I'm not aware of an additive that claims it can make portland grout waterproof. As pounder said, waterproof enough is what we use in the tiling world. Not even porcelain tile is technically waterproof. So that goes back to the topic, why use an additive on an inferior product? It's all about choosing the correct material. I don't think niche products are the way to improve installations. There is an entire market making money off these shortcuts. 









The question is about sealing cementitious grout and it's value. I still say sealing is a waste of time and money and trying to waterproof the same grout is an even more wasteful step.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

angus242 said:


> I'm not aware of an additive that claims it can make portland grout waterproof. As pounder said, waterproof enough is what we use in the tiling world. Not even porcelain tile is technically waterproof. So that goes back to the topic, why use an additive on an inferior product? It's all about choosing the correct material. I don't think niche products are the way to improve installations. There is an entire market making money off these shortcuts.
> View attachment 511229
> 
> 
> The question is about sealing cementitious grout and it's value. I still say sealing is a waste of time and money and trying to waterproof the same grout is an even more wasteful step.


My point wasn't specifically cementitious grout. I don't seal grout, although I have in the past.


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## annnna (1 d ago)

My builder didnt seal the grout in our shower. Now we are dealing with 15k in damages to redo the bath because water damage throughout the bath to the basement... seal the grout.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

annnna said:


> My builder didnt seal the grout in our shower. Now we are dealing with 15k in damages to redo the bath because water damage throughout the bath to the basement... seal the grout.


One, the grout sealing wouldn't have changed that. 
There was either no waterproofing or else the waterproofing was installed incorrectly. Grout, even sealed, is not a water barrier as has been stated in this thread already. 
If someone told you it was due to the grout not being sealed they're giving you incorrect information. Doesn't mean the builder wasn't at fault.

Two, this forum is for professional contractors only. If you're not a professional contractor you can check out diychatroom instead. Many of our professional members are there as well.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

I agree with Sam.
Sealer helps keep the grout clean more than it helps seal it.
It's used to stop bacteria and mold from growing in the grout lines.


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