# per square



## DAve 24 (Nov 2, 2007)

A GC in Minneapolis offered me $55 per square tearoff and reroof ..... i was wondering if anyone had any input on if this is an accurate price per square


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

I live in Mpls and don't know the particulars of your offer, but that was the going rate about 25 years ago.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

*Subcontract work*

Guatemalans are getting between 60-80 here in NJ.


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

DAve 24 said:


> A GC in Minneapolis offered me $55 per square tearoff and reroof ..... i was wondering if anyone had any input on if this is an accurate price per square


I think it should be closer to $250.00 considering the details that you have posted.:whistling


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

From what I read from the stormers in MN, they are getting high end bucks from the insurance companies. 

You should be able to get more, but maybe not from a GC.

Ed


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I get calls from the Mex offering to do work for $60-80 a square, don't matter the pitch, hauled away. 

I pay my crew more than that and there by the hour!

If your slow with work it's something but your doing it for Mex prices. I had a home owner offer me $80 a square labor off and on the other week and I laughed at him. Told him why would I go from $300-450 a square to $150 a square with materials. Told him my crew costs more than what he'd pay. He mentioned a local white crew doing it for that price and I said let them have it.

My little brother runs a roofing company and he's been getting $100-110 a sq labor for walkers from general contractors. This Spring I tossed him 20 roofs that I passed on for those prices from a general contractor who I'd done all his work for the past five years. Again I told the guy I would be nuts to work for him for 1/3 to 1/2 what I've been getting.

The house were on now payed $500 a square from one of the big insurance companies. 40sq 10/12 one layer tear off Horizons free upgrade to Landmark Premium. Two weeks ago got $530 for the same pitch except we tore off 30 year laminates and put down Landmark Premiums.

My Uncle talked to one of his old subs the other day and he said he's doing a 10/12 church for $30 a square on, ouch!!! On walkers he's getting $25 a sq.

My wife used to work at Tria shortly after it opened. She got me the job we're on now and the one we start on Monday. Last year she got me about 20 insurance tear offs so far this year only 4. If she went door to door I bet she'd do better than most storm chasers.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

The last job I subbed from a general contractor was a 50sq 8/12 10/12, he happily paid me $16K for my services.


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## localtradesman (Oct 27, 2007)

*My lajit subs.....*

My subs put down shingles by the square for 35.00 . Just had them do my last job a second story addition for uder 500.00. I quess it is all realitive to the persons abilities. My guys literly run up and down ladders. It's cool to see them do a job in a half a day that would have taken my regular guys two days. I charge 150 per square ....so I make a ton thanks to my specialty contractors. No handymen around me......specialty TRADESMAN only!!!


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

DAve 24 said:


> A GC in Minneapolis offered me $55 per square tearoff and reroof ..... i was wondering if anyone had any input on if this is an accurate price per square


Labor only? Ez Walk? 1 layer? No bid (just install and invoice)? Who's dumpster? Flashings extra? If so that's about average for my area for sub labor rates. I pay my subs more however. If you are bidding at least add 5% for bid error.

Only you know your rates, and I hope someone links the post: "Going out of Business rates". What do you pay your guys? Can you afford to pay them and all your overhead for that money?


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## PlainPainter (Dec 29, 2004)

I charged one lady $400/square for 5 squares just re-roofing on a 12/12 pitch roof 25 feet up in the air - and didn't feel the least bit guilty - and ran my numbers and figured I didn't even make that much money. Took my guy 10 man hours to do his half of setting up the ladders, getting a 28ft long 14" werner taskmaster 500lb rated pick up at the top of the ladders - and then setting up roof brackets and planks on his way up - then tearing two layers of roof caps off - then putting new roof caps on - then breakdown and clean up. I helped only with the setup of ladders and pic - and ran up the bundles to him - and of course did my half in breaking down the equipment. 

When I hear ridiculous stories of $55/sq. I'd laugh at the GC and tell him I was going to open up shop and compete in his line of work - the greedy bastard!


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## apkole (Mar 18, 2006)

A few years ago I spoke with a roofer who had complained to a builder that he couldn't make money on what he was being paid to install shingles on that builder's projects. The builder's response was, "I'm the only one that's going to make a profit on the houses I build."

The roofer said that at that point he made a decision not to work for that builder. Good decision . . . . . 

We installed shingles on a 6 building project this summer. The rate was $35/sq. and we installed about 360 sq. There were upcharges for flashing skylights, chimney, gables, and ridgevent installation. It was a youth camp new construction. 8 pitch. Not a money maker, but then we've been known to donate material and labor as a part of our ministry there in the past. I wanted to make sure the work was done right, so we became the roofing contractor for the project. Just finished last week (before the snow flies, thank goodness.)

Our rates this past summer floated between $290/sq (4 pitch, 2 layer rip, Landmark) up to as high as 600 sq (14/12 pitch, 2 layer asphalt, 1 layer wood shake on skip sheeting, re-deck, Landmark, lots of flashing details)

Really, every job is a custom job. No two roofs are the same. Each of us has different numbers we need to generate to stay in business. If the common denominator in pricing was that we were all working for beer money, then we might expect to see identical quotes between contractors.

A few of us would like to pay our employees well, provide paid vacation days, health insurance and a retirement plan for the people who are so instrumental in our success. A few of us would even like to build a retirement nest egg for ourselves. How about replacing worn out equipment and vehicles? How about being compensated for the stress that comes with this trade, or for that matter, the physical wear and tear on our bodies from the early years when we all did stoopid stuff. 

These goals are NOT met at $35/sq or even $55/sq. The good news is, there is a dollar figure that will meet your goals . . . . it's up to you to figure out what that number is . . . . it's up to you to sell at "the right price."


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Do you know who suffers the most at those prices? The home owner. A contractor that hires the cheapest crew he can find to maximize his or her proffit is doing an injust favor to the home owner. Unless of course the home owner goes with the lowest bid intentionally, he or she takes on that risk themselves.

How about a "roofer" who charges top dollar and gets it and then in turns buys the cheapest materials possible and hires the cheapest crews possible?


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## PlainPainter (Dec 29, 2004)

There is always that danger that the most expensive roofer will go out of his way and find 15 or 20 year roofing shingles - even though I don't know any lumberyard that stocks anything less than 25 yrs. But I think the probability that the cheapest roofer will do the highest quality job is a lot less than the most expensive roofer doing the crappiest job. I just don't think you can get top dollar in this business consistently and do shoddy work - some have, and for a time get away with it - but eventually longterm, if you're the most expensive - you better be the best.


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

It saddens me to see these low prices out there. damn fools


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Well, if it's an insurance claim, these roofers are running a risk doing the job "cheap" and the homeowner pocketing ins. money. Alot of the papers we see lately say that the contractor is responsible for the monies received. This means if they are doing it cheaper, they are "wrote down" for the amount given to the homeowner for the ins. claim. I wonder how the IRS is going to feel about that.
The money is to fix what is damaged. It is not the homeowners money. If it was, they would have to claim it on their taxes. This is opening a whole new can of worms that homeowners don't understand.


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## DAve 24 (Nov 2, 2007)

Thank you for your wisdom... I am actually just getting started in sub-contracting... so i've got alot of q's


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## PlainPainter (Dec 29, 2004)

RooferJim - the cheap pricing is in all the trades. It is sad - a sub nailing for $50/sq. - what does the worker make out of that $50? Setting up ladders, ladder jacks, pic, bringing up roof bundles, planks, roof jacks, hammering in roof jacks - and setting up planks - then when you are done, getting all those planks and jacks off the roof and breaking down the staging. If you think you can do all for less than 2-3hrs of labor per square - you're nuts, especially on a 12/12 roof pitch 24 feet up! That's $17/sq. at the above price - are roofing workers working for less than $17/hr?!?!?


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

MJW said:


> Well, if it's an insurance claim, these roofers are running a risk doing the job "cheap" and the homeowner pocketing ins. money. Alot of the papers we see lately say that the contractor is responsible for the monies received. This means if they are doing it cheaper, they are "wrote down" for the amount given to the homeowner for the ins. claim. I wonder how the IRS is going to feel about that.
> The money is to fix what is damaged. It is not the homeowners money. If it was, they would have to claim it on their taxes. This is opening a whole new can of worms that homeowners don't understand.


Well said. Turned in a home owner this year for insurance fraud and will do it again. Four trips to his house, adjuster said $10K got it aproved at $12.4K with new decking and the cheap roofer did it for who knows how much and didn't put down one piece of decking. Also called the city and found out no permit was pulled.

Hate to say it but hope the "roofer" goes out of business and the home owner gets in as much trouble as possible. My guess is the "roofer" did it for about half what the insurance payed. He's was my old neighbor and I did the other two houses on the block.

Then I get total strangers that say, "I'd never do that, you have two trips out here". It's good people versus bad people, IMO.

The best was when I met with a field manager for an insurance company and he took all my notes aproved the roof with no pics and paid $2 more than my estimate, $14,XXX. The next day a "roofer" came by and offered to do the job for $8,000. The home owner who I'd never met at the time said, "No, that's ok we'll pass we've already got a roofer". The house was paid for and instead of a mortgage company on the check my name was on it.

Wouldn't it be nice if all insurance companies did this?


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

PlainPainter said:


> RooferJim - the cheap pricing is in all the trades. It is sad - a sub nailing for $50/sq. - what does the worker make out of that $50? Setting up ladders, ladder jacks, pic, bringing up roof bundles, planks, roof jacks, hammering in roof jacks - and setting up planks - then when you are done, getting all those planks and jacks off the roof and breaking down the staging. If you think you can do all for less than 2-3hrs of labor per square - you're nuts, especially on a 12/12 roof pitch 24 feet up! That's $17/sq. at the above price - are roofing workers working for less than $17/hr?!?!?


 The actual installer is going to get about $27 a square on a walkable one layer tear off and a good installer can do 1 square an hour. That's $27 an hour by my math. 

Obviously as the pitch goes up so does the price.


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## PlainPainter (Dec 29, 2004)

Grumpy - you are telling me, you have guys that can rip off roofing, lay down drip edge, *****, felt, bring up bundles, and then nail - and average 1 sq. an hour for doing all that work?


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