# Higher priced Contractors



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> I ask these questions mainly to get conversation going and thoughts from others. I have opinions of alot of the questions I ask and have a direction already planned but the more you listen the more you learn:thumbsup:


So, would you say that the basic up-shot here is that we should set our standards high in terms of what we charge, based on the fact that we're worth it, and when we get hired, we represent top dollar paid for the best that's available in the contracting pool? 
If that works, and makes us more money, I think it would become irrelevant what anyone's opinion of it is, as long as the H/O feels they got their money's worth. 
I have told people occasionally what my annual income is and they seem shocked. I think a lot of people DO think we should be driving old pick-ups and living in shacks down by the river.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Winchester said:


> My overhead is a fraction of that.
> 
> 
> *Because lawyers and doctors go to school for years to earn some right to a decent job that nobody else can do unless they go through the same school.
> ...


I agree with this in theory. So when the doctor gives you a bill for surgery that is 50K for 3 hours work. Do you ask him for a break down of pricing?

Did that seem excessive before he removed the tumor from your brain?

I am in charge or repairing or building the most important asset that most people will ever own. 

The one your kids live in. hell the one you conceived your kids in. Hold most of your precious memories. Park your Porshe 911 in, keeps you warm at night and cool on hot days. Yet you won't pay me a fair price to keep that most valued asset safe for you and your family, dog and car


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

wellbuilthome said:


> I think it has a lot to do with who gets called in on any given project . I build a 2 car garage for 40 gs other guys get 60 for the same job . I louse the same job to guys for 25 g ? my job costs me about 16500 material 3000 labor +- 19500 is cost . I make 20, 000 dollar for profit & over head. I'm not getting rich but i think its fair pricing . The guys that want 60 000 for a garage seams crazy to me . I feel like i would be throwing the lead to the wind to make double my profit and OH . I don't really have much over head 25, 000 a year + payroll and WC . I would make my hole OH in three weeks at my current pricing . Most jobs work out to be 33% profit & OH . I'm happy with that . The thing is i would rather get most jobs i look at so we can spend more time working rather then selling + I really don't owe out any money and my wife racks in the bucks so i would just have to share the wealth with the tax man . I like to pocket 200 gs a year and i think it fair for what i do for my coustemers. There i said it. ?John


I have made about that much some years. I found that the first 100K in income was not as difficult to make as the second. More management, simultaneous jobs going on, quality went down slightly unless I was on top of all crews and all jobs practically by the minute, regardless of how carefully I chose my lead guys. 
Frankly, I'll settle for less profit it it means less stress, and at theis point, I know what I have to charge to be competitive, yet still get the work.
I dunno, it's a tough one. Price yourself out of the market, price high and feel a bit of guilt?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Bodger said:


> So, would you say that the basic up-shot here is that we should set our standards high in terms of what we charge, based on the fact that we're worth it, and when we get hired, we represent top dollar paid for the best that's available in the contracting pool?
> If that works, and makes us more money, I think it would become irrelevant what anyone's opinion of it is, as long as the H/O feels they got their money's worth.
> I have told people occasionally what my annual income is and they seem shocked. I think a lot of people DO think we should be driving old pick-ups and living in shacks down by the river.



I think the good tradesmen are worth every penny they get and a hell of a lot more.

we have all just learned bad pricing habits that were passed down and most are not business men but are tradesmen. I do not ever feel the need to justify my pricing I do not put a gun to the HO's head and force my price. I will show why I think I am worth it before, during and after the sale/job is completed


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

wellbuilthome said:


> I think it has a lot to do with who gets called in on any given project . I build a 2 car garage for 40 gs other guys get 60 for the same job . I louse the same job to guys for 25 g ? my job costs me about 16500 material 3000 labor +- 19500 is cost . I make 20, 000 dollar for profit & over head. I'm not getting rich but i think its fair pricing . The guys that want 60 000 for a garage seams crazy to me . I feel like i would be throwing the lead to the wind to make double my profit and OH . I don't really have much over head 25, 000 a year + payroll and WC . I would make my hole OH in three weeks at my current pricing . Most jobs work out to be 33% profit & OH . I'm happy with that . The thing is i would rather get most jobs i look at so we can spend more time working rather then selling + I really don't owe out any money and my wife racks in the bucks so i would just have to share the wealth with the tax man . I like to pocket 200 gs a year and i think it fair for what i do for my coustemers. There i said it. ?John



You Could have took the extra 20k and taken your wife and kids on vacation for a week to Disney land. Given all your guys two weeks vacation off for Christmas. Invest in new tools and equipment for the biz. Add some money to your retirement account and on and on.

Do you think the doctor thinks about you on the golf course?
or the lawyer when he is vacationing in the Bahamas with his wife?
or stock broker on vacationing with his kids in Disney world??

Are you, your workers, wife or kids not worth it??


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

rbsremodeling said:


> Why is it that every other Profession can say how much money they make, quote their salaries with pride but the contractor has to hide his.
> 
> Doctors brag, lawyers brag, athletes brag, everyone can say their salaries out loud but the contractor can't
> 
> What makes my profession any less important or relevant that I can't say out loud I make good money at what I do. I am proud at what I do so can't I say out loud when I make a certain salary milestone???


Because folks have been trained to think they can do the same work we do and save a buck.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Jason W said:


> Because folks have been trained to think they can do the same work we do and save a buck.


Ha! Seriously, how many times have you heard "_I'd do it myself, but I just don't have the time._"

:laughing: Most of these guys wouldn't know which end to hold on a screwdriver.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

As my lazy ass neighbors have told me though the years in relation to the upkeep of my yard and home, "Quit working so hard, you are making me look bad". To which my response is, "No, you are making me look good".

That is all it is.


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

Jason W said:


> Because folks have been trained to think they can do the same work we do and save a buck.


 No question, that attitude is out there. I have had H/O's tell me that they would do the work themselves, but they don't have time. ???? 
And all they have is a Black and Decker circular saw with a rusty blade, and a hedge trimmer in the garage. 
I suppose they would do their own angioplasty too, if they had the time.
A lot of this is just the husband posturing because he feels intimated by a guy coming in with tools and a truck. But a lot of it is also what was covered in previous replies, a good many people look at us as blue collar, and they don't relate that endeavor to a six figure income unless we're scamming.

And I agree with RBS, my own bad pricing habits and buying into other people's preceptions of what we should be worth has definitely cost me plenty over the years.
For one thing, I started out as not much more than a handyman working out of a Jeep Cherokee after I got fed up with being a stockbroker in the late ' 80's. I actually didn't care what I made, I was out from under the flourescents and out from in front of the monitor and the ticker, and was happy to not wear a tie anymore. 
And I didn't ever expect to make much because my father and grandfather both were carpenters and they made modest incomes to be sure. Rural area though, so it went further. But they were always broke.
Hard habit to break, not charging enough.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> As my lazy ass neighbors have told me though the years in relation to the upkeep of my yard and home, "Quit working so hard, you are making me look bad". To which my response is, "No, you are making me look good".
> 
> That is all it is.


So you don't work 9-5 monday through friday?? 
Why not?? 
are you still 20 years old and full of get up and go??


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

Winchester said:


> Ha! Seriously, how many times have you heard "_I'd do it myself, but I just don't have the time._"
> 
> :laughing: Most of these guys wouldn't know which end to hold on a screwdriver.


Not only that, how many times have you been called out to finish a job one of these jaboneys has tried to do himself? 
Whilst the wifey stands with her arms folded watching the pain evolve for the hapless douche who did everything wrong from a Sunset book that he couldn't understand to begin with.
Ever seen "Decks for Dummies?" 
"Fences and Gates for F**ckheads?"


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

mahlere said:


> well, you may as well ask why the car in front of you, holding you back, is a slowpoke A-hole...and the one behind you, trying to push you out of the way is a speeding A-hole....
> 
> people, no matter what their education level, tend to be very myopic in that they see their world, and that's it...they are the center and it revolves around them...anyone making less money is a slacker...anyone making more money is a gouger...regardless of their level of content with their own situation...


And it's really that simple:thumbsup:

not being a wise as at all. It really is.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Jason W said:


> And it's really that simple:thumbsup:
> 
> not being a wise as at all. It really is.


I agree as well it is but you best believe I am going to yell at the slow a hole and chastise the speeder when I am on the road and see em :laughing:

I hope you guys are fired up for 2009 I know I am


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> I agree as well it is but you best believe I am going to yell at the slow a hole and chastise the speeder when I am on the road and see em :laughing:
> 
> I hope you guys are fired up for 2009 I know I am


I'm fired up, and want to have my best year ever. The older I get, the more I realize I can't do this forever and I had best make hay whilst the sun still shines.
I just don't know how much confidence I can place in this Southern California market.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Jason W said:


> And it's really that simple:thumbsup:
> 
> not being a wise as at all. It really is.


i know...every now and again i say something smart-like:w00t:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Actually, I am 49 years old, work a minimum of 55 hours a week, and still manage to "make my neighbors look bad". What does that have to do with it? I explained precisely why contractors act as they do about pricing.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> Actually, I am 49 years old, work a minimum of 55 hours a week, and still manage to "make my neighbors look bad". What does that have to do with it? I explained precisely why contractors act as they do about pricing.


Don't feel slighted This post is to incite everyone. Why are you working so many hours?? Is it necessity?

Of course you don't have to answer my point was I want all of us to work 40 hours or less and enjoy or lives more. We work too hard not to enjoy life a bit more that's all

I had a homeowner call me and ask if the guys where coming over Friday after thanksgiving after my guys told him they where off. I said no its a paid holiday for them. 

His response must me nice and my response yes it is they get paid to spend a day with their family, are you working today? Silence on the other end of the phone then a few minutes later he says I will see you guys on Monday have a good weekend


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Yes it is, since our office hours are 7-5:30 x 5 plus 5 on Saturday, it is necessary. That is not to say that I don't steal an hour or 3 here and there to do things tha need to be done, but those are the basic hours of work.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

mark the coach said:


> Contractors accusing other contractors of gouging;
> 
> I spoke with Walt Steppelworth of Home Tech a few years ago and we discussed the challenges faced by contractors who play by the rules. A big challenge for those who decide to set up their business properly is selling against the contractors who for many reasons don't play by the rules. This challenge is still prevalent today. There are several factors that come in to play here.
> I had to deal with this on most of my sales calls for over 16 years when I managed a large remodeling and replacement company in Worcester Mass. Our company was a learning company that followed the rules of the state, the government, OSHA, local ordinances and more. On top of it we used union labor on the books to do the work. We were always a lot more than most of the competition. However we did 300-400 jobs per year most years and dominated our market. We learned how to differentiate and educate our customers about the dangers of hiring companies who didn't play by the rules. We had to learn how to do this without bad mouthing the other contractors in the marketplace.
> ...


Nice post Mark :thumbsup:


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Rory here's my answer to your question:


_Because most people are scared of money_




I think it takes just as much courage to succeed as it does to fail


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