# Moen Shower Valve Issue



## Hardly Working (Apr 7, 2005)

So I get a get a call to check out a door swap out and get hooked into a shower valve issue. So here it goes.

This paticulier valve rotates counter clockwise and has no hot water. Only cold. The vanity next to the tub has hot. I looked at the valve in the guest bath and it is the same model. So when I remove the control knob and rotate the stem it goes 360 from off to cold water flow then off. No hot. My regular plumber said that the cartridge may be clogged and to take it out and check it. Well I had to cut part of the plastic rough ring to remove the keeper clip because during the original construction they didn't set the depth correctly. The ring is forced back into the valve from the shower surround. When I removed the keeper I tried to pull the cartridge out but that damn thing is stuck in there tight. How hard should I have to pull to get it out. Also what else could be causing the no hot water issue?


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## Reading pa (Nov 12, 2011)

They make a stem puller you can get at lows or home depot you will need a new stem because you mite have dirt in it from the water heater it happen a lot stem are hard to clean out and not worth it


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Looks to me as the part the stem puller attaches to is pulled already.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

Some of those can be extremely stubborn, especially the longer they've been in there. I ruined one of the metal pullers one time trying to get an old stem out. I did get it out unconventionally about 45 minutes later, with a lot of praying, some drilling, and took it out in pieces. 
That looks new enough that the removal tool should do the job just fine :thumbsup:


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

get a medium size flat head screw driver cherry red...plunge it into the plastic on the cartridge...wait for it to cool twist and more than likely it will come out


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## Hardly Working (Apr 7, 2005)

rex said:


> get a medium size flat head screw driver cherry red...plunge it into the plastic on the cartridge...wait for it to cool twist and more than likely it will come out


OK? I guess that means the cartridge is plugged, now. What would cause the hot cold issue besides debris in the cartridge? What's an average cartridge replacement cost.


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

Hardly Working said:


> OK? I guess that means the cartridge is plugged, now. What would cause the hot cold issue besides debris in the cartridge? What's an average cartridge replacement cost.


the cartridge will cause those problems...

if your getting hot and cold to other fixtures in the bath, its the cartridge

i get my supply house to warranty the cartridge, but i still charge for it

i get about 175-225 for that, includes new caulk on trim plate :laughing:


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## Reading pa (Nov 12, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Looks to me as the part the stem puller attaches to is pulled already.


How would the stem pull out the cartage


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Reading pa said:


> How would the stem pull out the cartage


Because its a weak spot for the cartridge. To prevent that from happening the key is to gently rotate the cartridge and coax it out slowly.

What I use to remove the outside shell in the rare event this happens is a custom tool I made. 

What I did was weld a metal "tap" on a "T" handle connected to a shaft about 10" long. On the shaft is a weight that slides, similar to an automotive dent puller.

Simply tap the outer shell. Rap it a couple times with the weight......and it comes right out lickety-split.

Mike


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## Hardly Working (Apr 7, 2005)

Since the stem rotates freely 360 I'll check the supply house for a tool or take a section of allthread and make something similar to your slide hammer tool. I tried to pull it with a flat jawed pliers and not to hard in fear of not being able to turn the water back on to the house. I'll p/u a cartridge before trying to remove it to be on the safe side. Better to be prepared the to be oh shat.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Hardly Working said:


> Since the stem rotates freely 360 I'll check the supply house for a tool or take a section of allthread and make something similar to your slide hammer tool. I tried to pull it with a flat jawed pliers and not to hard in fear of not being able to turn the water back on to the house. I'll p/u a cartridge before trying to remove it to be on the safe side. Better to be prepared the to be oh shat.


Just use a lag screw. Take a piece of flat steal about a foot long and drill a hole in it so it fits. Tap on it, it will come out.

I haven't tried the REX method but thats an option also.

Just take your time.

Mike


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Half the time you rip up the rubber ring. Be prepared with a STRONG flashlight and a dental type pick to get all that crap out of the hole after you wrench your back out of shape getting the cartridge out of there. :laughing:


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

C-4 explosives work every time.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Guys, what about a little heat on valve body? I know there are other ways to get the cartridge out. Just curious as to wheater a little mapp gas would simplify the dilemma.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

flashheatingand said:


> Guys, what about a little heat on valve body? I know there are other ways to get the cartridge out. Just curious as to wheater a little mapp gas would simplify the dilemma.


Tried that once. Melted all the rubber in the valve. Ended up replacing the whole thing.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

flashheatingand said:


> Guys, what about a little heat on valve body? I know there are other ways to get the cartridge out. Just curious as to wheater a little mapp gas would simplify the dilemma.


With the right tool it comes out pretty easy. For me at least, I try to avoid a flame inside a hole that opens up to a cavity in a wall.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> With the right tool it comes out pretty easy. For me at least, I try to avoid a flame inside a hole that opens up to a cavity in a wall.


Yeah, and in your earlier post I see you made the right tool :thumbsup: I'm going to remember that and fab one up for next time.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Oconomowoc said:


> I try to avoid a flame inside a hole that opens up to a cavity in a wall.


I guess you wouldn't approve of the Flash Heating gas leak test method, or the Flash Heating Electric circuit testing method either...


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

flashheatingand said:


> I guess you wouldn't approve of the Flash Heating gas leak test method, or the Flash Heating Electric circuit testing method either...


I test gas with a flame...........

Mike


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

*A simple $3.00 tool*

If you pull out the center portion of a Moen cartridge it's hard to pull the outer shell out without a tool. If you not a service plumber odds are you don't have the right tool on your truck. Make a note to yourself to order one so you have it. In the mean time you can make one for under $3.00. This is a quick down and dirty tutorial for the tool impared worker who is in a bind.



*How to make the $3.00 tool*

For this tool you will need the following materials.

Cordless drill
large hangar bolt
Two nuts
a large scrap of metal
a drill bit
box wrench

I don't remember off hand what size the center of the cartridge is so your going to have to figure this out on your own. Measure it and run to the hardware store. In the bolt section they have pull out bins. In the bins they have different sizes of hangar bolts. Buy a size that's just a hair larger than the inside diameter of the cartridge.
Buy two nuts that lock against each other that matches the machined thread.

Insert the machined end of the hangar bolt into your cordless drill and hand tighen it.

Heat the course threaded end up with a torch (this is optional but works better) and quickly drive it into the cartridge. Do not bury it so the tip hits the valve body. Before you drill it take a screwdriver and hold the cratridge from potentially spinning.

Take your hand and gently loosen the chuck of the drill. You will now have a bolt sticking out of the valve body.

Grab a piece of steal that's long enough to create leverage. In the center drill a hole slightly larger than the hangar bolt shaft.
Take the two nuts and tighten them up against each other to act as a stop.

Start gently banging the handle back and fourth against the stop on the end of the shaft. After a while take the box wrench and see if you can rotate the assembly. If you can't then wash and repeat until it come out.

I made some super quick drawings below and took photos. I know it's crapy but I'm tired and that's all I have in my right now.:laughing:

Mike


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

I have had to change quite a few of these Moen cartridges & after taking out the retainer clip I reinstall the handle and use that to pull it out. Sometimes you have to really push it in and out fast & hard.
If it still won't come out I spray some PB Blaster penetrating oil & let it sit for a while & try it again............Good Luck !


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

mrmike said:


> I have had to change quite a few of these Moen cartridges & after taking out the retainer clip I reinstall the handle and use that to pull it out. Sometimes you have to really push it in and out fast & hard.
> If it still won't come out I spray some PB Blaster penetrating oil & let it sit for a while & try it again............Good Luck !


PBblaster, although good, is a nonpotable product and doesn't belong in a potable water system. I worth mentioning this or we'd have people spraying this in the water supply.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Oconomowoc said:


> PBblaster, although good, is a nonpotable product and doesn't belong in a potable water system. I worth mentioning this or we'd have people spraying this in the water supply.


 Spraying PB Blaster on this cartridge Is in no way putting it into the Potable water system. A shower valve or any faucet valve is at the end of the supply and goes into the drain & out to the septic or Sewer.
This is common sense.................


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

mrmike said:


> Spraying PB Blaster on this cartridge Is in no way putting it into the Potable water system. A shower valve or any faucet valve is at the end of the supply and goes into the drain & out to the septic or Sewer.
> This is common sense.................


According to state code it's a serious violation. To me its common sense. To others not so much but I have a license to protect as well as the health of my customer. 

Spray what you want on it but I do it for a living and I have yet to have one that won't come out in a matter of minutes.

Good luck


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## AlbacoreShuffle (Aug 26, 2011)

This is my "Go To " tool for pulling moen cartridge's


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

AlbacoreShuffle said:


> This is my "Go To " tool for pulling moen cartridge's


That's a great tool but doesn't solve the problem of the mixing stem occasionally pulling out.

Mike


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