# Mud consistency for Auto Tools



## Davey (Nov 24, 2006)

I need help in mixing mud for automatic tools. Is there a formula for adding water to a box of mud? How thin should it be for various tools? I seem to have it right for use in a taper but I seem to have to thin it right out to use in the corner finisher.

Second question is how do you usually finish in a corner after you pass the corner flusher with a filler box? The tool always leaves a bit of mud built up and I have to use a 6" knife to flatten it. Is this right?

Just got a complete set of Columbia tools for Christmas. Soooooo nice!:thumbsup:


----------



## taper71 (Dec 5, 2006)

Hello Davey. All boxes of mud seem to have different consistency , depending on how long its been sitting, what kind of environment, and what kind of mud. Westroc, Synco, All purpose , Classic finish, Pails or Boxes? Also what kind of paddle you are using determines your consistency and how much air you are mixing in the mud. I use a tube to measure water . For 10 inch stage I start with one full tube and add a little extra if not creamy pancake batter consistency. For 12 inch stage 1 full tube plus another 1/4 cup from the tube. To finish corners with angle box One full tube plus a 1/4 tube give or take. Too runny you make a mess. too thick you work too hard and the mud doesn't float nicely. Brand new tools will be alot different than broken in tools also. You have to mess around with the amount of water to get the feel that you are happy with. I find that Just because it works for me it may not work for you. I hope this helps.


----------



## axnjoe (Dec 10, 2006)

Ditto that!
I have enough trouble trying to standardize that cnsistancy for our own crews and we always use the same brand of mud. 
Taper is right plus a lot depends on room temp and humidity, drywall temp and humidity, and if you are using a guy or two chase or any at all.
Typically, I like to run ours as thick as possible to speed up drying time.


----------



## Davey (Nov 24, 2006)

taper71 said:


> Hello Davey. All boxes of mud seem to have different consistency , depending on how long its been sitting, what kind of environment, and what kind of mud. Westroc, Synco, All purpose , Classic finish, Pails or Boxes? Also what kind of paddle you are using determines your consistency and how much air you are mixing in the mud. I use a tube to measure water


I should have mentioned that. I use the Westroc products (Best Mud in The Joint) in a 18L box, both the Taping product and the Finishing product. I mix it with a Marshalltown mixer on a makita 1/2" drill 600rpm.

By the way, prices here just jumped 6$ per pail because of the cost of the plastic pail so we kept a few pails and buy it in 18L boxes. (19.70$ per box, 24.50$ per 18L pail)

I guess I am too thick on the mus as I am really pushing hard on the corner box and I have to go slow on the speed or else the mud skips.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## mud dog (Jun 17, 2006)

Davey, if you switch to Synko mud, you could save a lot of $$$$. At Home Depot it sells for $16.96.


----------



## Davey (Nov 24, 2006)

I saw that as well about the synko mud but is is the same product as the Westroc profesional? I think there is less vinyl in the synko product which makes it less slippery. Just a thought though.
BTW I have my mud consitence just right for taping and finshing tools after mixing 20 boxes of it. 1 box needs about 1.25 litres of water.


----------



## coppa23 (Jan 20, 2007)

you are 43 and as you said good taper 
let me tell you something "no offence "
I run all machines by my self ,only thing that I use i guy how send finish
If you didn't figure how much water to use in 1st 2nd and skim code or on machines by now , you're not going to figure out at all , clean your hands and kiss your machines and go work by the hour


----------



## mud dog (Jun 17, 2006)

From what I've seen lately, Westroc (pails) have way more water in the mix, it takes alot more water to thin down the Synko (pails). I'm not sure about the consistency in the boxes. The westroc gives you more play time (coating into wet mud), but it seemed to shrink more on first coat.


----------



## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

I just keep adding water and mixing and doing the finger test. I know when it's the right consistancy by how it feels on my fingertip. Every box of mud is different and there is no formula to follow because of that fact... 

Tell you one thing though, Im pissed off the manufacturers stopped sealing the bags of mud in the boxes. No twist ties or plastic tape to close the bag anymore. You open the bag and have a bunch of dried mud flakes fall into your pail. A real pain to deal with especially on your finish coat...


----------



## Davey (Nov 24, 2006)

coppa23 said:


> you are 43 and as you said good taper
> let me tell you something "no offence "
> I run all machines by my self ,only thing that I use i guy how send finish
> If you didn't figure how much water to use in 1st 2nd and skim code or on machines by now , you're not going to figure out at all , clean your hands and kiss your machines and go work by the hour



Thanks for the advice


----------



## taper71 (Dec 5, 2006)

mud dog said:


> Davey, if you switch to Synko mud, you could save a lot of $$$$. At Home Depot it sells for $16.96.


 
I personally find the mud at home depot to be reaaly hard. I believe they get old mud that hasn't sold in the factory and has been sitting too long. I honestly find it hard to mix and work with.


----------



## mud dog (Jun 17, 2006)

Check the dates on the mud. If you have a problem with the mud give the CGC rep a call, their mud is the same as the stuff from any distributor. 

Re: boxes of mud without twist ties or tape- just used boxes for the first time in a long time, 50% had tape holding them closed and 50% didn't. I guess the guy with the tape at the plant is sloughing off!


----------



## dusty the taper (Jan 20, 2007)

The amount of water added to the mud will always be different because of the freshness of the mud(some mud comes harder then others) I mix my first coat (10" box) mud, thinner then you would by as if youre applying it by hand, not to thick or you will over work your self and not to thin as where it fall s out of the box.
The finish mud should be a thinner and should not drop out of the box.

Secondly, I think you are refering the start of your flat joint from an angle...............if so use a 10" knife with some mud and fix it after running all joints.... a helper is good for that.

Good luck.........hopefully that helps


----------



## Davey (Nov 24, 2006)

Secondly said:


> No - I mean the corners where the two walls and the ceiling meet. There are three surfaces and all three corners have a coat of fresh mud. How do you do them nice in 1 pass?


----------



## dusty the taper (Jan 20, 2007)

Oh you mean 3- ways, i find it best to run all your angles first and then come back when the mud sets up a little, it makes it a little easier.
I also use a bell shaped five inch knife, the knife with straighter shoulders so u dont cut into the other corner. do your cieling first. It may need a little touch up later but usually not.

Personally, synko is better but westroc is just as good, its the taper applying it.


----------



## kgphoto (May 9, 2006)

Davy,

The corner flushers from Can -Am and Better Than Ever Tools flush 3 way corners with little to no picking.


----------



## 1KingOfDrywall (Jan 14, 2007)

*......as far as consistency goes.....*

when I ran the tube I used to really wet it down for minimal drag and fast action......just be sure you got a guy or 2 on your heals at all times. Now when I run the box......I add a hand splash of water and a little soap and I whip it up really good. I like my box mud bone dry. On my first coat of angles I run wet, but on the skim I go pretty dry.
That's my preference.:thumbup:


----------

