# How much should I charge?



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Discussing how you get to your price is very welcome here. But most who ask the question don't want to hear that answer, they was a concrete number they can tell the client. They don't want to figure out the hard part, they want someone who has gone through the school of hard knocks to figure it out themselves to pony up the answer so they don't have to go through the same thing.

Well I tell you, the SOHK hurts when it gives you a lesson, but it is a lesson that you will not forget.

If you want to teach them to price, by all means do so. If they want a price given to them, the thread will be knocked down.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Discussing how you get to your price is very welcome here. But most who ask the question don't want to hear that answer, they was a concrete number they can tell the client. They don't want to figure out the hard part, they want someone who has gone through the school of hard knocks to figure it out themselves to pony up the answer so they don't have to go through the same thing.
> 
> Well I tell you, the SOHK hurts when it gives you a lesson, but it is a lesson that you will not forget.
> 
> If you want to teach them to price, by all means do so. If they want a price given to them, the thread will be knocked down.


I disagree with that, the people asking are usually newbies going from carpenter to business owner. I think 9 out of 10 of them would be more than happy to hear "How do I get my price", even when asking "How much do I charge?".


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

KennMacMoragh said:


> There's a lot of different scenarios, how would I put it into a few paragraphs?


That's precisely why it's better to discuss and teach the principles than trying to hand out specific numbers. It's the classic "teach a man to fish..." situation.

I do realize what you're getting at, but the mods here as a group collectively have decades of experience with how that typically goes. You'll understand when you're older. :laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I disagree with that, the people asking are usually newbies going from carpenter to business owner. I think 9 out of 10 of them would be more than happy to hear "How do I get my price", even when asking "How much do I charge?".


I thought that is what I said. Teach them how to get there and not just give them the answer.

If you teach a contractor to price you will let him survive in business for a lifetime, if you give him the answer to how much he should charge you will only get him that one job.:laughing:


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

pricing is the magic to making money or not

by the way I charge an arm and a leg for drywall work through the roof prices that's what it is and people pay my rate it doesn't matter if I'm doing it or subbing it out

I know guys and companies who charge 30% to 40% less than me

I don't know how they get by but that's not my problem


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

The main element is how your specific business works, which is hard when you can't do a few jobs to figure it out. I mean hanging a house is like 4k most guys on this board could bid like zero on accident and be fine but you would know the key factors of what take your time and what you should fix in your price.


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## Repairman615 (Jan 10, 2011)

I though I would spout off about something I may or may not be in the begining of understanding...

Giving a fixed price is one thing, and many do not know if they made money or not during of after.


Bill says "I wanna make $10 per hour, I figure 10 hours, I will do your job for $100 bucks plus materials - let's make a deal"


Well, what about hourly?

Bill works for himself. (I am Jeff, not Bill) Bill would like to make say20,000 a year. Okay, lets say there is 2000 working hours in a years so that is easy
20000/2000=10$/hr right?

Theroretically, Yes. However, Bill gives free estimates and doesn't charge drivetime. Ut-Oh Bill, You made 18,000 or $9/hr.

Unbillable hours will blind side a man trying to charge a fair wage.

Dammit Bill, you didn't charge markup on your materials either. 
Your 9hr was looking good. Now your at 8.50 for your gas money.

No Profit????
Bill, you suck, it took you an extra two hours cause your girlfriend kept calling.

Min. Wage would have been better for you.


So the moral of the story is, find out how much you would like to make a year. say 20,000

Total number of UNbillable hours (estimates, smoozing, closing, eating, shoping, B-S-ing). say 8 per week or roughly 400

If there is 2000 hours in a year, then 2000-400=1600

20,000/1400= $14.29 /hr.

Bill needs to make 14.29 an hour to make 10 bucks an hour. :clap:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Repairman615 said:


> Bill needs to make 14.29 an hour to make 10 bucks an hour. :clap:


And that's just the tip of the iceberg. :thumbsup:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Yep, taxes certainly come to mind. Overhead, utilities, phone, etc etc etc.


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## Repairman615 (Jan 10, 2011)

Tin and Leo are right,

Just scratching the surface with 'Bill'.


A man self employed based on making 25 an hour does not absolutly make 50k/yr. You will have more year at the end of the money.

This is why it is important to figure out YOUR costs (including*not limited to*points from Leo's post, plus everything you can think of and forgot) and rates. Anothers just will not work for you or me.


Coffee+Pencil+Paper+Brain=Price


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

fast fred said:


> pricing is the magic to making money or not
> 
> by the way I charge an arm and a leg for drywall work through the roof prices that's what it is and people pay my rate it doesn't matter if I'm doing it or subbing it out
> 
> ...


They lose a little on each job, but they make up for it in volume :laughing:


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> This is why we should allow these questions, give absurd numbers, either extremely low or high so they go in, look like an idiot and learn by experience.


Some guy wanted to know a sq foot price for tile jobs (not in this forum) - so I told him somewhere between tree fiddy and ten bucks / foot for the average tile job, and sometimes double that for labor only :laughing:

Funny thing, is that it's the truth ... Sure, I might be able to do a simple tile job in a large open area in 12x12 for tree fiddy ... but there's no way you can do a bathroom for that. There are way too many variables to just pin a sq foot price on something like that. What if the guy wanted a 1200sf mosaic replica of a salvador dali? It could be tree fiddy ... $350 / foot ...


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

I think Bill needs to find another line of work.


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## aschnit (Dec 6, 2009)

I've read and reread this post and generally find it insightful.... I can't however seem to figure out why you're dividing 20000 by 1400 at the end instead of something like 1600 or 2400. Care to enlighten me?... Anyone?


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## Repairman615 (Jan 10, 2011)

aschnit,

Non billable hours sneek up on us as independant tradesman.

We do not receive a solid hourly rate no matter how the job goes like an employee. 

After finding about how many non billable hours there would be in a year, and considering 2000 hours per yer (which is light for self employed) this equates to:

2000 - say 600 non billable hours = 1400

Jeff


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## Repairman615 (Jan 10, 2011)

Edit. oops, I just seen that it is a typo givin the figures...:blink:

I guess it shows more unforseen unbillable hours>>?


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Get to know yourself. I price jobs based on my past history. It always takes me twice as long to do something as what I thought it would.

So I figure a price and double it. Works for me. :thumbup:


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## rlbarr7 (Nov 17, 2011)

i think some guys just need help finding out sqft prices. they go look at a job and think of the man hours and give a price. than it takes them longer and they dont make the money they should of, or lose money. it helps when people share this information. not sharing this hurts our trade. guys bid wrong than everyone thinks wow this guy only charged this much for a job so why should i pay more?


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

I think you get the same response asking a pricing question as you would asking "How Do I Hang A Door"....There are a million variables, but as a contractor forum for professionals you'd expect the poster to already have the basic knowledge.

I see both sides, but asking a simple question as a first or second time poster isn't going to yield results.

We're better off, IMO, not allowing any pricing threads. Why waste time sorting through all of them to decide who's legit and who's not.

I'm as curious as anyone, and granted, sometimes a decent thread written by a very experienced tradesman gets trashed. In defense of administration, they have to draw a line somewhere. You get out what you put in....that's life....


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