# Estimating



## scubastieb (Aug 20, 2006)

Hello... i'm taking the step and building my own home but i'm going to be playing the GC... I'm a laborer by trade and wanted to ask how to estamate materials and when asking subs to give bids on labor only what are the going prices for the different phases...so my questions are

I know roofing is lenght x width to get sq' and divide that by 32sq'...

I have an idea of figuring out 2x4's for a wall lenght of wall in inches and divide by 16" but how to figure for top plate and bottom plate and windows and walls is there a set way to estamate for lumber for the job...

How to estamate matterials for the job... lumber, plumbing, electricle,

What is a good programe to use to back up your own estamets?


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

Why are looking for labour only bids? 

Mark


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

With no disrepect to you, but you ought to get a second job and just buy something already built, cause from reading your posts you're gonna be way over your head.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Acting as a GC without a clue as to basic estimating skills will be a disaster in the making. The best advice you will get is HIRE a competant contractor, and get with it. The home shows that deal with "be you own contractor" scenarios are not always revealing about the depth of what really goes into a home. And, you will notice most of the portrayed "contractors" had experience in the construction field first.

Your questions are showing a total lack of understanding of basic construction, and if you want to pursue this, I would advise to to get a good book on house contruction, and begin reading. This won't give you any experience, but will educate you on how complex or simple, depending on your confidence, this will be.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

Please learn to spell estimating first :whistling


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Scubastieb,

Every story you've ever heard about how much money you can save by being your own GC is true . . . 

But . . . 

YOU have got to be AS CAPABLE as a GC to do it!!

You're going to get EATEN ALIVE out there!!

It's hard enough to even FIND a GOOD GC out there.

NOW YOU WANT TO INVENT ONE??


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## dayspring (Mar 4, 2006)

Tom R said:


> Scubastieb,
> 
> Every story you've ever heard about how much money you can save by being your own GC is true . . .
> 
> ...



Tom, I agree with ya! They don't want to hire someone that knows thier stuff, they want to learn it themselves in one job! Possible? No Way. What they will learn....is respect for a good GC, with the EXPERIENCE that didn't come off some TV show.


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## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

My advice....other than what has already been given, is try to get on a framing crew of some sort....learn the trade....become respected by your boss and your crew enough to learn to layout and to learn how to estimate(or the basics anyways). You don't have to be a genius, but a good knowledge of how stuff is built would be a plus....along with a knowledge of how to build it, and the amount of time it takes to build it. Good Luck.


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## kodiak_island (Sep 3, 2004)

Wow save money I dont think so. I would definately get an construction estimating book or computer program and learn the formulas to properly estimate your materials.


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## rpb1967 (Aug 5, 2006)

personally i would not work anyone as a sub who expected me to work as a hired hand. i buy material where i buy it, i buy what I use, and i pay what i pay. I never work for a home owner that insist on doing it thier way. remember as a GC you will have to make sure all your subs are compliling with codes for thier trade. i am a cert. HVAC tech and do light home improvements, and would never consider being a GC, because i know id lose my butt by spending all my time figureing out what to do instead of making a living.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It is the little things that will get you, scuba.

I had a lady (used loosely), who with her husband was building a spec home. They were real estate "people", and so thought they knew construction.

They purchased Cultured Stone from me, and masonry cement to lay it, and later her "masons" bought more masonry cement to finish the job. Unfortunately for them, they used illegal's who did not appreciate the difference in color between the various brands of cement.

She approached me after it was in the wall, insisting that it was my fault that she was too stupid to know to buy the same brand of cement, and that I "should have known" what she was using on her job. Yeeeaah, right, Ma'am, it is my job to make sure your Mexicans buy the right cement. She had to tear down 4000 SqFt of wall and redo it. As she said, she and her husband had learned some valuable lessons in the process of building this spec home.

Pardon me for not feeling sorry for her.


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## scubastieb (Aug 20, 2006)

I want to thank you all for your feed back....lots of neg feed back and lots of poking at my ability of not being able to build a house as a owner builder. I've built two homes using a GC and that was fine and i was a construction major in college then went into teaching.... I was hoping for more support from you all with my question than shooting down my idea of wanting to do this... I was hoping you would give me your best advice with the idea of me being one of the few that could do this... I hope the next replys are more positive to help me and give me tips.... Thanks.. buying the land next wk...


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

> Hello... i'm taking the step and building my own home but i'm going to be playing the GC... I'm a laborer by trade and wanted to ask how to estamate materials and when asking subs to give bids on labor only what are the going prices for the different phases...so my questions are
> 
> I know roofing is lenght x width to get sq' and divide that by 32sq'...


*You mean for sheathing, or where does this 32' come into play for roofing? A square of roofing is 100 sq. ft.*



> I have an idea of figuring out 2x4's for a wall lenght of wall in inches and divide by 16" but how to figure for top plate and bottom plate and windows and walls is there a set way to estamate for lumber for the job...


*What about corners and trimmers? Just figure one per lineal foot. Plates are lineal X 3. Do you KNOW how to measure off the prints?*



> How to estamate matterials for the job... lumber, plumbing, electricle,
> 
> What is a good programe to use to back up your own estamets?


*ESTIMATE*




> I've built two homes using a GC and that was fine and i was a construction major in college


*You sure had us fooled!!!!!*



> I was hoping for more support from you all with my question than shooting down my idea of wanting to do this... I was hoping you would give me your best advice with the idea of me being one of the few that could do this...


*I thought they all handled themselves very well. And I might add that they were trying to help you. Honestly, from your original post, you should not be tackling something like this right now. *



> Thanks.. buying the land next wk...


*GOOD LUCK :sad: *


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Prepare to learn some valuable lessons.


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## scubastieb (Aug 20, 2006)

*thank you*

That is what i was looking for ... i appreciate your wisdom and of course me being very raw at this help me not make my mistakes and help me do a good job if you will... "when you all see someone adding up 2+2 and getting 5... help them to get to =4 please don't poke at them and call them out for being not as good as you at this.... I'm a special ed teacher at three colleges in california and when people are trying to do their best when they really are not good at it does it help them to point out that they can't do it.... I never told the guy with west nile that he would never walk again... i told him i will help him even if his 1% of walking is all he has... i ask the same of you... when someone is lesser than you does it make u feel good to lessen them more... maybe when ur at home u can say i helped him or i lessed them ... i hope for the better of the two... Thank you Maj for teasing me but giving me some very good learning points... i will let you all know how this turns out... any more helpful hints will be great and I hope the best for all of you who read my not spell checked... not clear... and raw notes to you all.... thanks


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## Dave-Raleigh (Jun 12, 2006)

Lets see...you were a construction major in college. Constructing what? You must have slept through the whole 4 years if you can't do basic estimating.

So you are a special ed teacher at 3 colleges in California? I applaud you for that but it seems you lack the basic sense of how to figure out roof sheathing or wall studs/plates. Your command of the printed english language could use some cleaning up too (considering that you teach in college)

So you built two houses using a general contractor? Did you ever go on site while they were being built? Did you learn anything from those two experiences other than you think GC is easy to do?

Your stating that you are a laborer confuses me. Can't you hire on to a more challenging position where you will learn something other than hauling stuff, sweeping floors, pushing a wheelbarrow, or turning stop sign back and forth. 

Nothing wrong doing those things but you seem way over qualified to be stuck in that kind of job. 

Good luck in being a GC on your own house. Seems to me you don't have a clue and wouldn't know which end of a tape to hold to read the measurement.

Maybe you should go back to college and get a masters degree in construction. I'm sure they teach how to estimate at the masters level (if they didn't at the bachelor's level).

Bah Humbug.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

scubastieb said:


> I want to thank you all for your feed back....lots of neg feed back and lots of poking at my ability of not being able to build a house as a owner builder. I've built two homes using a GC and that was fine and i was a construction major in college then went into teaching.... I was hoping for more support from you all with my question than shooting down my idea of wanting to do this... I was hoping you would give me your best advice with the idea of me being one of the few that could do this... I hope the next replys are more positive to help me and give me tips.... Thanks.. buying the land next wk...


Hey, I want to applaud your pioneering spirit, that's what made this country great. Back in the 1850s when men would go west to find fortune, they didn't know everything, but they would go do it and make some mistakes and figure it out along the way.

Alot of them died along the way, but hey. There are lots of great slogans to remember as you are struggling along with your GCing that will lift your spirits and keep you going like : "Pioneers get all the arrows!"

scubastieb, plus building our own shelters has a long and proud history here in America, don't let them get you down, just keep going and keep remember the 2 things that will always get you through any problem you face: TIME & MONEY, you usually end up having to spend lots of both for what you will run into so always remember to keep extra checks in the glove compartment and your project will keep on moving along in the right direction. Also keep in mind some of the greatest advice you were never given, this advice will get you through those sleepless nights when you wake up in a cold sweat about 1/2 way through the project. If you were looking to hire a GC to build you a house, would you have hired one with no experience? Because that's exactly what you just did when you decided to do it yourself!:laughing:

Keep a good humor through the project and keep a well stocked bank account and be ready to spend it to dig yourself out of the holes you will put yourself in and the great expiriment you are putting yourself in the middle of will go just fine.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Scuba, I got out of GC'ing due to the large amounts of BS you have to deal with... too old for it now however. Start at the libarary, really... there are tons of books out there that will answer your questions about how to estimate in minutes. You shouldn't be looking for labor only quotes though, if I am asked for "labor only" I give the same quote for mats included. Let your subs do the estimating, YOUR job as GC is to keep it to code... meaning, you walk around with a level and check behind them, make sure they aren't butchering a stud to stick a 3" drain in a 3 1/2" wall, etc. Get the project management books and learn that carpet comes after floors, etc... just like teaching school there are certain steps that have to be followed in a certain order. You will loose your butt this time, sorry but you don't even know how many studs to build a wall yet, but... the last two and this one by yourself... the next one you'll have the information. My favorite college prof used to say all the time, I will teach you nothing except... where to FIND the information.

He was right.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Scube, 

No one's intent is to 'lessen' you, - - the intent is to enlighten you on how hard this task really is. 

GC's make it look easy because they've already made all the mistakes, - - and paid for 'em, too . . . 

Anyway, on another note, - - although I've got next-to-no experience at mechanical stuff, - - I'm gonna try and build myself a car, - - so's I can save some money, y' know??

Could someone please forward me a list of the parts I may need??

Maybe even the order they should go in??

I'm sure I can handle the rest myself.


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

Tom R said:


> Scube,
> 
> No one's intent is to 'lessen' you, - - the intent is to enlighten you on how hard this task really is.
> 
> ...



Well Put Tom. That pretty much really does sum it up. 

ALOT of good advice here Scubastieb.

My suggestion is that you really think about what is being said and WHY it is being said. 
Through all the sarcasm (Which I did find rather entertaining) ...

All joking aside, People here on this thread..... really are trying to save you from what is sure to be your own worst nightmare....


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

I am concerned that you will be in over your head and end up taking a beating with this project.

You (with your knowledge)will save money by hiring a GC.

You still going to work full time while doing this?
If so, keep your cell phone charged.
Poor kids are not going to learn anything this year. You'll be too
busy putting out fires to teach them.

Honestly consider hiring a GC or some sort of Project Foreman.
Dollar for dollar you will be better off.
Plus, think of the headaches you have avoided.


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## dayspring (Mar 4, 2006)

AtlanticWBConst said:


> All joking aside, People here on this thread..... really are trying to save you from what is sure to be your own worst nightmare....



And that's the TRUTH!


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

I have a feeling he isn't listening.:no:


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

In my opinion we will see these
future post headings from scubastieb:

*"My subs walked off, what do I do now?"
"I had a fight with the building inspector today."
"What's the going rate for (fill in here)?"
"How much would you charge for (fill in here)?"
"What happened, I picked all of the lowest bidders and now have problems?"
"My painter keyd my car, can I sue him?"
"Why am I getting so many extra's charged to me?"
"OK guys, need some advice, how many studs would you order?"*

ect., ect., ect..........


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Attention Everyone!!!!...I have an idea...lets add up all our experience (those of us who gave this guy advice) and see how many total years and how many homes built/projects managed and see if he might respect our collective experience. I know I didn't "hire" a GC to build my last 2 homes.


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

Peladu said:


> In my opinion we will see these
> future post headings from scubastieb:
> 
> *"My subs walked off, what do I do now?"
> ...


Not to nitpic Peladu but, it has been discussed here before and it bothers a few of us.................


etc., etc., etc.........

:laughing: :laughing: :whistling


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

joasis said:


> Attention Everyone!!!!...I have an idea...lets add up all our experience (those of us who gave this guy advice) and see how many total years and how many homes built/projects managed and see if he might respect our collective experience. I know I didn't "hire" a GC to build my last 2 homes.


26 years........ 32 homes (off the top of my head, may be more or less)


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

30 years, about 68 refabs and about 120 build outs. Plus or minus little jobs. Half the refabs were historic.

I wouldn't consider touching new construction, even with my experience... i've only ground up about 2.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

maj said:


> 26 years........ 32 homes (off the top of my head, may be more or less)


If you work hard for 4 more years, and get a little more experience, I will make everyone stop calling you a hack, buddy:clap:


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

Last year I had a customer call me for atwo story veranda on the front of his house. He had decided to be his own GC. When I met him, he had only started gutting the building and had done nothing else.
He was a very nice man, who researched EVERYTHING. 
Even though I was only doing the proch, I took pity and gave him a LOT of advice.

when I saw him this spring about more work, he told me that he probably should have hired a GC. The house would up costing him $40,000 more that he was quoted by two professional builders (who presumably had their fees already built into their prices).

I belong to a forum for my Mustang enthusiast's club. One of our members decided to build his own house. He has chronicled many of his adventures. Suffice it to say: he is WAY over budget, and even though he began last summer, he is not yet finished.

Go look for a reputable and experienced builder, have some peace of mind, and you'll likely even save some money.


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## bmartin (Dec 30, 2005)

One thing to note I don't know anybody who has built their own house themselves or with a GC that hasn't went over budget. It's too tempting to buy the nicer carpets and cabinets or upgrade faucets and light fixtures. Spec houses are a different story.


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## fox builders (Jul 26, 2006)

*being own GC*

Well lets see you can pay me about 1500.00 to do a materials take off for you because you don't have a clue. 
Buying the materials yourself to save % mark up from builder won't save you very much because they will just raise their labor rates I would. 
Also you must be paying cash for this house ,because no bank is going to finace same without a GC involved.
Your about to find out just how hard and complicated our job as a gc really is. The first time the materials are not on site and you have a crew waiting for them see how much that cost you. I would charge you 300.00 plus and hour for the crew to drink coffee and you would pay because any monies payed would be applied first to charge and if you refused to pay at end I'd put a lien on your property.
I don't mean to be an ******* but every ho that owns a hammer thinks he can do what we do good luck


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## DJLamont (Feb 21, 2006)

Tom R said:


> Scube,
> 
> No one's intent is to 'lessen' you, - - the intent is to enlighten you on how hard this task really is.
> 
> ...


I'm not disagreeing with what was said, but building a car is very different from, and a lot more complex than building a house.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

DJLamont said:


> I'm not disagreeing with what was said, but building a car is very different from, and a lot more complex than building a house.


DJ,

You are, of course, correct.

It was an exaggeration to try and get the point across. :thumbsup:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Tom R said:


> DJ,
> 
> You are, of course, correct.
> 
> It was an exaggeration to try and get the point across. :thumbsup:


Darnit! What am I supposed to do with all these lists of autoparts now?:w00t:


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## DJLamont (Feb 21, 2006)

Tom R said:


> DJ,
> 
> You are, of course, correct.
> 
> It was an exaggeration to try and get the point across. :thumbsup:


I agree, I wouldn't recommend someone run out there and do it. Seems like a lot of people think that a GC job is easy. You really do have to have construction experience and you need to know about all the trades involved, not just one or two.


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## DJLamont (Feb 21, 2006)

Double-A said:


> Darnit! What am I supposed to do with all these lists of autoparts now?:w00t:


That reply goes really well with your avatar picture!


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Double-A said:


> Darnit! What am I supposed to do with all these lists of autoparts now?:w00t:



Mail them to me one at a time, - - in order, - - I get confused easily . . . :laughing:


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## alter_ego (Sep 7, 2006)

DJLamont said:


> I'm not disagreeing with what was said, but building a car is very different from, and a lot more complex than building a house.



Hmmmm....... I pulled wrenches for six years and wrote service (manage a team of thechs and sold work) for over ten years. 

For the past five I have been doing my very best to hone my managment and tech. skills to apply in this business......

I'm going to falt out disagree with anyone who says building a house is less complex than building a car. If I could fast foward my construction knowledge to equal my automotive knowledge I would be set!

Hands down...... no way is there less to learn here than in the automotive field!!!!

However, we all had to be new at something sometime. I concider myself verry new to this and lok foward to learning and sharing what I have learned. 

I am ready to go ground up on a house and looking foward to doing one soon but I'm in no hurry either. 

Buy good construction managment software, buy your prints and your lot, have subs bid and do the work and you will do fine. 

I think what gave away your lack of experiance was the line about labor only quote.  This business just doesn't work that way.

Anyway good luck.


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## DJLamont (Feb 21, 2006)

alter_ego said:


> Hmmmm....... I pulled wrenches for six years and wrote service (manage a team of thechs and sold work) for over ten years.
> 
> For the past five I have been doing my very best to hone my managment and tech. skills to apply in this business......
> 
> ...


As stated earlier the automotive comment was meant to get a point across. 

And as a side note, there is a difference between 'turning wrenches' as you call it, and 'building' a car. Just as there is a difference between an architect and a framer. (No insult meant to either)


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