# Canadian Carpenter's Contest



## shanekw1

I'm just a trailer park boy, and we don't have stairs in our trailers but I'll try;

1 - Through the floor, thru-bolted to the joists.

2 - On the floor, with a pre-made fastener system, bolt up through the bottom and a nut tightened through a hole in the newel.

3 - 'L' brackets on all 4 sides, trimmed over when finished.

4 - For hollow, cut a block of wood that just fits inside the newel, glue and screw the block to the floor, then slide the newel over and screw/nail.


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## Munanbak

chit load of nails, 2 bolts, good ol' friction fit, drywall screw, thumb tack,.. just cement it in.


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## Kent Whitten

knucklehead said:


> I installed a 6x6 newel column a while back and this thing came in the box with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't figure out how it was supposed to work


Take the red and white cylinder thingy on the right and throw it in the trash. 

Next, go to the store and find a similar cylinder thingy that is green and says "Heineken". Buy the product called "12 pack" and give your best buddy Kent a call to meet you at the jobsite.

When you get to the jobsite, open up the 12 pack and grab one of the cylinder thingys and hand it to your best bud Kent. Grab another cylinder thingy and slide it in the foamy cylinder thingy on the left. This one is yours since you bought the suds and all.

Proceed to open cylinder from the flip tab on top and proceed to drink contents while sitting on tailgate of said truck. 

Throw piece of **** Chinese junk on the ground. Grab some lighter fluid and proceed to enflame said chinese scrap. While you have lighter out, roll a fat one while you're at it.

I like your electric cord. What's with the tree branch? Building rustic furniture are we?


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## Rich D.

I'll take a shot at it.

Method one.

Use L brackets. Dado the bottom of the post to make the brackets flush. screw the brackets in ( one bracket on each side). Then cover with molding.

Method 2 .

Use a lag with machine threads on top and wood threads at the bottom. Install the lag centered in the floor where the post will be. Make sure to go into something solid and add blocking as neccessary.

Drill a hole in the center of the post the size of the lag. Then a couple inches up drill another hole on the side of the post (pick the side less seen) only half way through until you intersect your center hole. Make the hole big enough to fit a wrench and of course the washer and nuts. Tighten down and install a wood plug matching the post.

Method 3. This method would need to be done before the steps are complete and all treads are in. Get a tread and temporary secure the tread where the post will go. Center the post in it permenent location. Mark the cut out and use a jig saw to cut a square hole in the tread. The remove tread and install blocking in all 4 directions the lag and glue into place and slip over tread for finished product.


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## darr1

i decided to have a competition opened to all and the first prize will be 10 pints of guinness in the auld dub in ireland ok , so for the question How many pencils am i holding now ?


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## Rich D.

27.


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## darr1

close


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## Brutus

KentWhitten said:


> Take the red and white cylinder thingy on the right and throw it in the trash.
> 
> Next, go to the store and find a similar cylinder thingy that is green and says "Heineken". Buy the product called "12 pack" and give your best buddy Kent a call to meet you at the jobsite.
> 
> When you get to the jobsite, open up the 12 pack and grab one of the cylinder thingys and hand it to your best bud Kent. Grab another cylinder thingy and slide it in the foamy cylinder thingy on the left. This one is yours since you bought the suds and all.
> 
> Proceed to open cylinder from the flip tab on top and proceed to drink contents while sitting on tailgate of said truck.
> 
> Throw piece of **** Chinese junk on the ground. Grab some lighter fluid and proceed to enflame said chinese scrap. While you have lighter out, roll a fat one while you're at it.
> 
> I like your electric cord. What's with the tree branch? Building rustic furniture are we?


Shouldn't need the foamy thing if you drink your beer like a man! :laughing: If it's warm by the last sip, yer goin' too slow!


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## katoman

Just checking in. I will read all posts and let you know who the winner for the week is. Week ends Sunday. New question on Monday.


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## woodworkbykirk

some beer can be drank warm such as most beers from brewdog... 

now if you want to talk about drinking beer like a real man you best be quitting the red stripe... next thing you'll be into pabst blue ribbon.....


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## Brutus

woodworkbykirk said:


> some beer can be drank warm such as most beers from brewdog...
> 
> now if you want to talk about drinking beer like a real man you best be quitting the red stripe... next thing you'll be into pabst blue ribbon.....


Learn to use the quote button. :laughing:

And where's your answer to the question, Mr. Red Seal?! :whistling:


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## katoman

And the spotlight is now on.............Kirk.


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## FramingPro

you shouldn't have a red seal thats illegal and cruel 
i snapped this picture of you red seal man


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## Kent Whitten

Brutus said:


> Shouldn't need the foamy thing if you drink your beer like a man! :laughing: If it's warm by the last sip, yer goin' too slow!


You did notice I said he could have the foam thingy right? Freezing cold outside and I order a frost d mug :laughing:


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## Winchester

woodworkbykirk said:


> some beer can be drank warm such as most beers from brewdog...
> 
> now if you want to talk about drinking beer like a real man you best be quitting the red stripe... next thing you'll be into pabst blue ribbon.....


Somebody willingly drinks red stripe?

I bought a six pack and drank 1/2 of one bottle. The rest went down the sink. And I gave the other 5 to someone who was going to Jamaica for their honeymoon and wanted to get used to the local beer. (haha poor sucker)

That's the first time I ever put that much beer down the sink....


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## Jaymz_23

Pabst is a favorite of mine. Beer is an acquired taste, so you may as well acquire a taste for Cheap beer.


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## Tom Struble

:blink:they let you guys use power tools up there??:shutup:


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## knucklehead

KentWhitten said:


> Take the red and white cylinder thingy on the right and throw it in the trash.
> 
> Next, go to the store and find a similar cylinder thingy that is green and says "Heineken". Buy the product called "12 pack" and give your best buddy Kent a call to meet you at the jobsite.
> 
> When you get to the jobsite, open up the 12 pack and grab one of the cylinder thingys and hand it to your best bud Kent. Grab another cylinder thingy and slide it in the foamy cylinder thingy on the left. This one is yours since you bought the suds and all.
> 
> Proceed to open cylinder from the flip tab on top and proceed to drink contents while sitting on tailgate of said truck.
> 
> Throw piece of **** Chinese junk on the ground. Grab some lighter fluid and proceed to enflame said chinese scrap. While you have lighter out, roll a fat one while you're at it.
> 
> I like your electric cord. What's with the tree branch? Building rustic furniture are we?


That tree branch is my cane.


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## Brutus

Tom Struble said:


> :blink:they let you guys use power tools up there??:shutup:


Ya, but we have polar bears running on giant hamster wheels to create the power for our tools. We must feed them one seal flipper, a beer and a plate of poutine every few hours to keep them happy.


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## katoman

It's my contest so no whinning about who I pick each week.

This week is a tie between Winchester and Shane.

Some good answeres guys. Here's a couple more ways -

I consider through the floor and blocked to joists the strongest.

There is a metal bracket that attatches to the bottom of the newel and then srewed into solid floor members that is accepted.

On a large hollow column have a 2x block inside the newel and run threaded rod down through the floor (and solid blocking) tighten with nuts and washers.

Connecting to stringer is also acceptable if done accurately and securely. 

I don't think L brackets are acceptable, sorry.

That's all on this one. Tomorrow a new question. I'll try to be specific.

The Tims "caramel mocha" is awesome. :thumbup:


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> It's my contest so no whinning about who I pick each week.
> 
> This week is a tie between Winchester and Shane.
> 
> Some good answeres guys. Here's a couple more ways -
> 
> I consider through the floor and blocked to joists the strongest.
> 
> There is a metal bracket that attatches to the bottom of the newel and then srewed into solid floor members that is accepted.
> 
> On a large hollow column have a 2x block inside the newel and run threaded rod down through the floor (and solid blocking) tighten with nuts and washers.
> 
> Connecting to stringer is also acceptable if done accurately and securely.
> 
> I don't think L brackets are acceptable, sorry.
> 
> That's all on this one. Tomorrow a new question. I'll try to be specific.
> 
> The Tims "caramel mocha" is awesome. :thumbup:


how about a framing question for my bday :whistling


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## katoman

FramingPro said:


> how about a framing question for my bday :whistling


You got it. Tommorow.


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## EthanB

FramingPro said:


> how about a framing question for my bday :whistling


In the mean time, Nick. What style is the frame on this Mirror?

Hey. it's a framing question :laughing:


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## Brutus

Congrats Winchester and Shane!


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## Tom Struble

maybe we should send someone up there and show you guys the right way to do junk:whistling


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## Brutus

Tom Struble said:


> maybe we should send someone up there and show you guys the right way to do junk:whistling


Thems be fightin' words, bud. :boxing: :laughing:


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## Tom Struble

i was thinking sending Nick but apparently thats not going to work:glare:


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## FramingPro

Tom Struble said:


> i was thinking sending Nick but apparently thats not going to work:glare:



no ill come down there and show you how its done.


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## Tom Struble

why you:sneaky2:


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## FramingPro

Tom Struble said:


> why you:sneaky2:



because im young and agile and i know everything :jester:


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## katoman

FramingPro said:


> because im young and agile and i know everything :jester:


16 and full of the exuberance of youth. :clap:

Got to love it.


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> 16 and full of the exuberance of youth. :clap:
> 
> Got to love it.


i was joking :whistling


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## katoman

We know.


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## Winchester

Tom Struble said:


> maybe we should send someone up there and show you guys the right way to do *junk*:whistling


Nah, we don't like doing *junk* work up here. You can keep your junky knowledge :laughing::clap:


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## Tom Struble

ooo hoist by my own petard:sad:


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## katoman

Week 2 question. An easy one for Nick. Later I'm going to ask a hard one.

When balloon framing, how do you support your second level floor joists?


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Week 2 question. An easy one for Nick. Later I'm going to ask a hard one.
> 
> When balloon framing, how do you support your second level floor joists?



Kato.
This should be diy forum :laughing:
The joists are supported by a ribbon. usually 1x4 notched into the studs


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## woodworkbykirk

a ledger board is attached to the studs which the joists can either be hung off of or bear directly on


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## katoman

I knew it. Now I'm going to get chastized for asking a no brainer. 

The next framing question is gonna be tough. Better start studying Nick. :laughing:


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> I knew it. Now I'm going to get chastized for asking a no brainer.
> 
> The next framing question is gonna be tough. Better start studying Nick. :laughing:



pfft, whats my name. FramingPro im a pro :laughing::laughing::laughing:
at heart atleast :laughing::laughing:

Why don't you piggy back questions this week. And ask another.


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## katoman

No one's got it yet. Lone, you stay out of this.


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> No one's got it yet. Lone, you stay out of this.


what exactly are you looknig for.


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## katoman

FramingPro said:


> what exactly are you looknig for.


You'll see. :whistling


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> You'll see. :whistling


like i know about this. so i want to answer but i don;t know what i am answering.


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## Brutus

FramingPro said:


> like i know about this. so i want to answer but i don;t know what i am answering.


I don't... Im just wingin' it. :laughing:


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## CanningCustom

No comment


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## CanningCustom

Crap, you have to raise the wall of the height if the 10/12 side or you will totally mind bang yourself


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## CanningCustom

Brutus, I wasnt paying attention and right about now Kyle is just landing in New Zealand on vacation


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## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Crap, you have to raise the wall of the height if the 10/12 side or you will totally mind bang yourself


say you have a 12" oh on the tail. you need to raise the 10p wall 4" for the different rates of drop. aka slope.

shift the hip to the steep side. All measurements are taken from the outside edge of fascia to allow for proper planing


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## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Brutus, I wasnt paying attention and right about now Kyle is just landing in New Zealand on vacation


nice. im going to run his crew while hes there :laughing:


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## CanningCustom

Nick, you are on the right path there buddy. I am pretty sure Kyles partner can handle it


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## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Nick, you are on the right path there buddy. I am pretty sure Kyles partner can handle it


of course.

the question is too vague. I gave all that i know that is not math for that.


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## Brutus

FramingPro said:


> of course.
> 
> the question is too vague. I gave all that i know that is not math for that.


Very vague... but I think that's the point. 

I didn't even think of plate heights originally... :laughing:


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## FramingPro

Brutus said:


> Very vague... but I think that's the point.
> 
> I didn't even think of plate heights originally... :laughing:



it could be absorbed in the heelstand if the rafters were large enough.


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## Brutus

FramingPro said:


> it could be absorbed in the heelstand if the rafters were large enough.



That's what I've always done. However, I was also talking about in the gable. Unequal pitch gable, with differing plate heights. Totally left my mind. Maybe I shouldn't drink a rum&coke while answering next time... :whistling


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## katoman

Ok, ok. Canning got it. The main thrust is you need to raise the wall height on the minor roof.

Part 2, question B - tell me how you would go about determining how much to raise your top plate. And NO caculators.


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## FramingPro

Brutus said:


> That's what I've always done. However, I was also talking about in the gable. Unequal pitch gable, with differing plate heights. Totally left my mind. Maybe I shouldn't drink a rum&coke while answering next time... :whistling


Would different plate heights even work for a gable. Ya but it would be more complicated. i wouldn't do it


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## Brutus

FramingPro said:


> Would different plate heights even work for a gable. Ya but it would be more complicated. i wouldn't do it


Oh, come on! I thought you were the framing PRO!? :thumbsup:


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Ok, ok. Canning got it. The main thrust is you need to raise the wall height on the minor roof.
> 
> Part 2, question B - tell me how you would go about determining how much to raise your top plate. And NO caculators.



by minor do you mean the minor pitch. that would be wrong. The steeper pitch drops quicker. therefore you must raise the plate for = fascia heights


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## CanningCustom

Sure Nick, if you were doing a "cap cod" style roof with a 4/12 on the back and 12/12 on front. Then you arent just playing with heights of walls but positioning of the ridge for the 2 pitches to meat correctly.


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## Tom Struble

easy on them lone,there just Canadians after all:sad:


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## shanekw1

Tom Struble said:


> easy on them lone,there just Canadians after all:sad:


Hey, I was going to say 'Who cares if the fascia lines up perfectly, just hire Tom S, he can make anything look great.'

But now.........


















:laughing:


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## CanningCustom

Lone i know what your talking about but i think that would just confuse to the piss out of them at the moment. Thanks for the hijack bro lol. "they are just canadians after all" easy buddy !!! Dont mess with a jersey canadian


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## Tom Struble

i love my brothers to the north:notworthy


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## JT Wood

Tom Struble said:


> i love my brothers to the north:notworthy


dam right


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## CanningCustom

Haha your humor is always welcome TomS


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## loneframer

CanningCustom said:


> Lone i know what your talking about but i think that would just confuse to the piss out of them at the moment. Thanks for the hijack bro lol. "they are just canadians after all" easy buddy !!! Dont mess with a jersey canadian


Sorry, but I'm pretty sure I've posted the answers in the past. Just seeing if Nick was taking notes.:whistling


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## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Haha your humor is always welcome TomS


tom struble?

tom's truble


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## Brutus

CanningCustom said:


> Haha your humor is always welcome TomS


Humour. :bangin:


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## JT Wood

FramingPro said:


> Now figure out where they meat at what height.
> 
> Easy enough just till lines cross.



Sketchup is a godsend for me, I am a very visual person


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## FramingPro

http://www.sbebuilders.com/tools/geometry/unequal_pitch_gable.php

this is from SBE's site. He has some crazy calculators on there:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## loneframer

hughjazz said:


> Sketchup is a godsend for me, I am a very visual person


Now raise the steep side so the fascias line up.

The wall height will change, as well as the center line of the ridge.

There's a bunch of different scenarios that can play into unequal pitches.

Before you can even start the math, you have to know these variables.

Equal overhangs, aligning fascias, specific ridge center line, ridge height limitations, rafter dimension,....

Once the defining points are set, it's just math. Any one of the above variables can change the opposing roof pitches to make things jive.


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## CanningCustom

Nick, yes it has a lot of neat stuff. Did you draw the full scale of the tails today?


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## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Nick, yes it has a lot of neat stuff. Did you draw the full scale of the tails today?



No, but i think i will go do that after dinner.
So what was the scenario, 10 and 6p 12" OH?


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## CanningCustom

Yep


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## JT Wood

loneframer said:


> Now raise the steep side so the fascias line up.
> 
> The wall height will change, as well as the center line of the ridge.
> 
> There's a bunch of different scenarios that can play into unequal pitches.
> 
> Before you can even start the math, you have to know these variables.
> 
> Equal overhangs, aligning fascias, specific ridge center line, ridge height limitations, rafter dimension,....
> 
> Once the defining points are set, it's just math. Any one of the above variables can change the opposing roof pitches to make things jive.



I meant this.

(it would be an ugly as$ roof)


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## katoman

And just to confuse it further, here we need R40 in the ceiling. That means you can't land a 2x8 on the top plate.

Now we're talking rafters on top of ceiling joists. Is this what you were referring to Lone?

Just another reason most roofs today go truss. They solve all the problems and they are cheaper than stick framing.

Oh, I almost forgot. We have a three way tie so far. Canning won this weeks question. Next week we'll talk a little about forming. And not the easy stuff like footing forms either.


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> And just to confuse it further, here we need R40 in the ceiling. That means you can't land a 2x8 on the top plate.
> 
> Now we're talking rafters on top of ceiling joists. Is this what you were referring to Lone?
> 
> Just another reason most roofs today go truss. They solve all the problems and they are cheaper than stick framing.
> 
> Oh, I almost forgot. We have a three way tie so far. Canning won this weeks question. Next week we'll talk a little about forming. And not the easy stuff like footing forms either.



you want a full R 40 or 12"? over the plate line. Just like trusses raise the heel.


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## FramingPro

On my town house site i notice that the rafters landed ontop of 2 plates on top of the ceilnig joists. joists were 2x8. see on the firewall there is a short wall at the ceiling joist. Any idea why? I first thought maybe cuz of the drop but it was only a 1p
heres the pic
you like the 12 ply 2x6 post for the ridge and hip PL :laughing:


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## katoman

That's what you have to do to get the room for the insulation Nick.

A side note here is I was talking with the spray foam rep yesterday and he tells me they are coming out with a new foam that will give R 20 in a 2x4 wall. That will be awesome.


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## katoman

darr1 said:


> i would answer it but i wont win anything so no point , drinks still on me in the auld dub


darr, if you know the answer, go ahead. :thumbsup:


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## darr1

i could not do that it would not be fair , god i hated shuttering especially in the wet irish winter


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## FramingPro

take out the posts and section supported by post and immediately reshore


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## CanningCustom

Darr didnt you come here and work with kyle?


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## JT Wood

katoman said:


> Close, but no prize. Here's a tip - how do you take out the posts with the weight of the beam on them? That's a hint.


Jeez I don't even understand the question.

We formed up a horizontal beam, Correct?

We are supporting it with temp Columns?

We need to remove the temp columns to remove the forms for the horizontal beam?


If I understand correctly, how can we remove the forms while keeping the beam from falling? Is that the question?


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## darr1

CanningCustom said:


> Darr didnt you come here and work with kyle?


what do you mean thanks darr


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## katoman

hughjazz said:


> Jeez I don't even understand the question.
> 
> We formed up a horizontal beam, Correct? yes
> 
> We are supporting it with temp Columns? yes
> 
> We need to remove the temp columns to remove the forms for the horizontal beam? yes
> 
> 
> If I understand correctly, how can we remove the forms while keeping the beam from falling? Is that the question?


 no

Sorry, I meant the weight of the form for the concrete is on the posts.


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## Winchester

katoman said:


> no
> 
> Sorry, I meant the weight of the form for the concrete is on the posts.


I'm confused, and have some questions.

We just want the weight of the form off the temp/shoring posts, and they are the only thing holding the form up?

Did you make these forms on-site or rent/buy them?


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> no
> 
> Sorry, I meant the weight of the form for the concrete is on the posts.



posts are assumed to be temporary
columns are the permanent concrete things
specify :thumbup:


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## katoman

AAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrggggggggg

We have built a form for a beam. It is made of plywood. We have supported this form at either end on two posts. Now we want to take it apart.

What is the first piece to take out so that we can dissasemble the form we made for the concrete pour?

Hope that clears it up.


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## Dirtywhiteboy

katoman said:


> AAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrggggggggg
> 
> We have built a form for a beam. It is made of plywood. We have supported this form at either end on two posts. Now we want to take it apart.
> 
> What is the first piece to take out so that we can dissasemble the form we made for the concrete pour?
> 
> Hope that clears it up.


Can you show us a pic:whistling


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## TimelessQuality

Just cut the damn things on a diagonal:thumbup:


Or remove the wedged shims that you built it on...


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> AAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrggggggggg
> 
> We have built a form for a beam. It is made of plywood. We have supported this form at either end on two posts. Now we want to take it apart.
> 
> What is the first piece to take out so that we can dissasemble the form we made for the concrete pour?
> 
> Hope that clears it up.


why does it matter. it all comes off. :whistling


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## katoman

TimelessQuality said:


> Just cut the damn things on a diagonal:thumbup:
> 
> 
> Or remove the wedged shims that you built it on...


Sorry to say Timeless that I can't send you any Timmies, but YES, the posts are installed on top of thick shims. These are commonly called folding wedges or opposing wedges.

This allows final height adjustment and fascilitates easy dissasembly.

Well done. :thumbup:

In a moment, question #2

Steve, just curious, where did you learn that?


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## Winchester

If you don't tell us soon I'm going back to the job site on Sunday evening and knocking these posts out with a sledgehammer.


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Sorry to say Timeless that I can't send you any Timmies, but YES, the posts are installed on top of thick shims. These are commonly called folding wedges or opposing wedges.
> 
> This allows final height adjustment and fascilitates easy dissasembly.
> 
> Well done. :thumbup:
> 
> In a moment, question #2



well thats a weird one cuz you did not specify it it used screw jacks or just straight posts.

http://www.builderbill-diy-help.com/concrete-formwork-slabs.html


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## katoman

FramingPro said:


> well thats a weird one cuz you did not specify it it used screw jacks or just straight posts.
> 
> http://www.builderbill-diy-help.com/concrete-formwork-slabs.html


Nick, I'm talking CARPENTRY here. No screw jacks. Things built of wood, by carpenters. Now you know how to do it without any screwjacks, bottle jacks, or other fandangle things.

I have used these "folding wedges" in many instances for many different things. A good thing to know. :thumbsup:


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Nick, I'm talking CARPENTRY here. No screw jacks. Things built of wood, by carpenters. Now you know how to do it without any screwjacks, bottle jacks, or other fandangle things.
> 
> I have used these "folding wedges" in many instances for many different things. A good thing to know. :thumbsup:


true. Although wood shoring posts are not too common anymore.
if the wedges are loaded so tight how do you get them out. :blink:


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## Winchester

katoman said:


> Nick, I'm talking CARPENTRY here. No screw jacks. Things built of wood, by carpenters. Now you know how to do it without any screwjacks, bottle jacks, or other fandangle things.
> 
> I have used these "folding wedges" in many instances for many different things. A good thing to know. :thumbsup:


Can you spot where I've used them in this photo? :laughing: :laughing:


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## katoman

Here's a drawing Nick. Sometimes all you have is wood.


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Here's a drawing Nick. Sometimes all you have is wood.



i knew what you meant but thanks :thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble

katoman said:


> Sometimes all you have is wood.



sepecially a young guy like you Nick:donatello:


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## katoman

Ok, question #2 - Sometimes as carpenters we are called upon to save an old building. The old brickwork is failing, and we need to support the wall. For this we would build raking shores and install them along the length of wall. 

See the attatched pic. The question is - what is the purpose of the needles?


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Ok, question #2 - Sometimes as carpenters we are called upon to save an old building. The old brickwork is failing, and we need to support the wall. For this we would build raking shores and install them along the length of wall.
> 
> See the attatched pic. The question is - what is the purpose of the needles?



the needle ties the shoring to the wall?
This is temporary right, is this above ground?


----------



## katoman

FramingPro said:


> the needle ties the shoring to the wall?
> This is temporary right, is this above ground?


Nick, no it does not tie it to the wall. Yes this is above grade.

Nick, if you read what I wrote carefully, the answer is in what I wrote.


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Ok, question #2 - Sometimes as carpenters we are called upon to save an old building. The old brickwork is failing, and we need to support the wall. For this we would build raking shores and install them along the length of wall.
> 
> See the attatched pic. The question is - what is the purpose of the needles?



it prevents the brace and the vertical piece from moving apart or together?


----------



## katoman

Nope


----------



## FramingPro

to stop the cleat from moving :blink:
and therefore keeping the rakers in the right spot. to maintain pressure


----------



## CanningCustom

Nick. Stop guessing and read what he wrote carefully


----------



## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Nick. Stop guessing and read what he wrote carefully


i read my last guess in a book so, its not a guess :whistling


----------



## CanningCustom

Haha


----------



## JT Wood

I'm gonna say to stop the brace from sliding up

*edit* I guess they are called rakers.


----------



## katoman

No correct answer yet. Canning pm'd me with the correct answer. He's in the lead now for delicious Timmies.


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> No correct answer yet. Canning pm'd me with the correct answer. He's in the lead now for delicious Timmies.



in the book it said that it keeps the cleat from sliding and therefore the braces from too.


----------



## katoman

Nick, you're close. Think about what the shoring is doing. It's purpose.


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Nick, you're close. Think about what the shoring is doing. It's purpose.



oh ok, 
hmm the shoring is keeping the brick at bay :blink:
hmm. you have some good questions :thumbup:


----------



## TimelessQuality

katoman said:


> Steve, just curious, where did you learn that?


Where I learned most of what I know.. working with my dear ol' dad:thumbsup:


----------



## katoman

FramingPro said:


> oh ok,
> hmm the shoring is keeping the brick at bay :blink:
> hmm. you have some good questions :thumbup:


Nick, the shoring is keeping the brick............... not at bay. So close.


----------



## FramingPro

it keeps the brick work from failing? thats about all i pulled from there. its weird to think about


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Nick, the shoring is keeping the brick............... not at bay. So close.


it is keeping the brick plumb?


----------



## katoman

FramingPro said:


> it keeps the brick work from failing? thats about all i pulled from there. its weird to think about


Yes Nick, the needles are supporting the brickwork. The raking shore is holding the wall from bulging out, the needles are supporting the brickwork.

Installed say every 4-6' the raking shores will "hold" the wall untill the masons can repair it. 

Hey Nick, there are no metal thingies here. Although today there are metal posts to do this, you need to know how to build this from timbers.

A story - I did a job where we had to pour a new foundation wall against an existing stone wall. Not one forming company in Toronto would take the job on. It's referred to as a "one sided pour". Very dangerous to do.

I built raking shores to support the new wall forming. We used 4x8 timbers. It held. Always good to know these things young grasshoper. :thumbsup:


----------



## katoman

Well, got to get up early tomorrow guys. That's it for me tonight.

Tomorrow is question 3. :devil:


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Yes Nick, the needles are supporting the brickwork. The raking shore is holding the wall from bulging out, the needles are supporting the brickwork.
> 
> Installed say every 4-6' the raking shores will "hold" the wall untill the masons can repair it.
> 
> Hey Nick, there are no metal thingies here. Although today there are metal posts to do this, you need to know how to build this from timbers.
> 
> A story - I did a job where we had to pour a new foundation wall against an existing stone wall. Not one forming company in Toronto would take the job on. It's referred to as a "one sided pour". Very dangerous to do.
> 
> I built raking shores to support the new wall forming. We used 4x8 timbers. It held. Always good to know these things young grasshoper. :thumbsup:


and the plates on the wall are spreading the load. So the needles are drilled into the brick? I still don't get how they hold it up, just like a lintel sort of idea? 
The retaining walls on Chris's site goes like this
there is i beam columns driven into the ground with 3x4 timbers. drainage board then 4" foam insulation then a 1 sided concrete wall. I bet he did a similar thing except not to such extent, its only 6'-8' between the columns anyway but still lots of pressure. 
:thumbsup:
thanks


----------



## JT Wood

Thanks for hosting the questions Kato


I could care less about the tim's I like learning.:thumbsup:


----------



## Brutus

dang it! Im sorry I was out hanging with some friends and missed this.


----------



## FramingPro

Brutus said:


> dang it! Im sorry I was out hanging with some friends and missed this.


did you atleast learn something?:thumbup:


----------



## JWilliams

damnit brutus your only real friends are here on www.contractortalk.com!


----------



## CanningCustom

Holy crap JWilliams i almost pissed myself laughing when i read that


----------



## Brutus

CanningCustom said:


> Holy crap JWilliams i almost pissed myself laughing when i read that


Why aren't you at work!? :laughing:


----------



## woodworkbykirk

one of two reasons.... hes using a smartphone posting while parked around the corner hiding while watching his guys... or hes hiding from the wife whos looking for him at hte jobsite


----------



## CanningCustom

Kirk lol you are close, everyone has 2 days off due to a serious lumber F up


----------



## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Kirk lol you are close, everyone has 2 days off due to a serious lumber F up


my friends job the trusses were made 1' to short.
what happened this time :sad:


----------



## CanningCustom

No you friend just pulled his span to big


----------



## katoman

So, the job I'm on right now I'm not the GC, just the carpentry guy. The addition is getting stone work all around. Last week the GC says "I need a form made up for the stone masons for a curved head window"

This form is to hold their stonework and has to match the window shape.

Anyone want to describe how to go about this? Took me about 1/2 hr.

Go for it. This is an easy one.


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> So, the job I'm on right now I'm not the GC, just the carpentry guy. The addition is getting stone work all around. Last week the GC says "I need a form made up for the stone masons for a curved head window"
> 
> This form is to hold their stonework and has to match the window shape.
> 
> Anyone want to describe how to go about this? Took me about 1/2 hr.
> 
> Go for it. This is an easy one.



well find your radius, if its semi circular, if its an arc then figure it out with the formula. Then cut a 2x with the same curve. put plywood on it and then as the mason lays the stones stick it in the opening and put props.


----------



## CanningCustom

Ok smarty pants how do you find said radius without a calculator, just you, your tape, chalk line and a framing square?


----------



## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Ok smarty pants how do you find said radius without a calculator, just you, your tape, chalk line and a framing square?



you mark the center at the top of the rise. and you mark the width of your opening.
from the bottom make a triangle by connecting the center rise to either side of the opening lines
measure the length of the diagonal line segment and mark the centre on the diagonal line.


hook your tape at the top of the rise. and swing an arc that is longer then half the diagonal line going each way and make sure they overlap
then put a line diagonally where they over lap to the the centre of the diagonal line and where they cross is the centre of the circle. measure to your shoulders and thats the radius


----------



## katoman

Why does he make it so complicated?


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Why does he make it so complicated?


i would just calculate it but this works too :thumbup:


----------



## CanningCustom

Hahaha i was gonna say that, he has the idea but wow, what explanation!!!


----------



## FramingPro

CanningCustom said:


> Hahaha i was gonna say that, he has the idea but wow, what explanation!!!


i won't lie i sorta had the idea of it but i watched the finehomebuilding video and typed it as he told it.

:laughing:
But now i know it too. :thumbup:


----------



## Chris Johnson

Nick...think about it without thinking too hard...don't complicate it.

It takes longer to cut the wood than doing the layout.


----------



## CanningCustom

That would explain it


----------



## FramingPro

Chris Johnson said:


> Nick...think about it without thinking too hard...don't complicate it.
> 
> It takes longer to cut the wood than doing the layout.


advice to live by :thumbsup:

yes but without wood how else will the stones be supported as he lays them. Calculations won't hold it up will they? :whistling
Need to layout and cut :thumbup:

well how would you do it then?


----------



## katoman

Here's how I did it FAST Nick - I measured the width of the window at the spring line. (that's the horizontal line where the curve begins) Then I divided that measurement in two. Then checked that the rise was the same as the half measurement.

Took a sheet of plywood, measured out the full window width plus an 1/8" for clearance. Measured to the middle (the half measurement) I took a 1x2 and put a nail through it at the half measurement.

Placed the nail at the centre point (again at the half measure) and drew the arch. Cut it out with the jig saw. Used it as a template and cut another one.

Then I cut 2x blocks and put them in between the two plywoods. Done.

The GC said "wow, that didn't take long". I said "you're welcome"

Always nice to get a compliment on your work. :thumbup:


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Here's how I did it FAST Nick - I measured the width of the window at the spring line. (that's the horizontal line where the curve begins) Then I divided that measurement in two. Then checked that the rise was the same as the half measurement.
> 
> Took a sheet of plywood, measured out the full window width plus an 1/8" for clearance. Measured to the middle (the half measurement) I took a 1x2 and put a nail through it at the half measurement.
> 
> Placed the nail at the centre point (again at the half measure) and drew the arch. Cut it out with the jig saw. Used it as a template and cut another one.
> 
> Then I cut 2x blocks and put them in between the two plywoods. Done.
> 
> The GC said "wow, that didn't take long". I said "you're welcome"
> 
> Always nice to get a compliment on your work. :thumbup:



your talking semi circular im talking about in the event of an arc, which is common.

yea for exactly half a circle i would do that but i assumed you meant an arc, gotta specify!!


----------



## Chris Johnson

FramingPro said:


> well how would you do it then?


Personally if I was the GC I would have made the templates by tracing the window before installation and put the templates in the trailer safely away until the mason was ready.


----------



## katoman

Yes Chris. The masons don't start for another week. I was about to install the windows, so it was easy to do while the window was still on the ground.


----------



## Brutus

damn, give a guy a chance! :laughing:


----------



## katoman

Well, I give that one to Nick. What is it now? A four way tie? 

Nick, perhaps you would ask a question that we can answer.

And yes, if it's an arch there's a little more figureing to it. But not too much. Gets a little harder with an elliptical arch.

No, I think Canning is up by one. I'll check at the end.


----------



## loneframer

This is the only house I ever framed where I had to frame the openings first, then FedEx Tyvek templates of the ROs to the manufacturer.:blink:

All the segmented windows were built to fit.:thumbup:


----------



## katoman

That's cheating :laughing:


----------



## loneframer

katoman said:


> Well, I give that one to Nick. What is it now? A four way tie?
> 
> Nick, perhaps you would ask a question that we can answer.
> 
> And yes, if it's an arch there's a little more figureing to it. But not too much. Gets a little harder with an elliptical arch.
> 
> No, I think Canning is up by one. I'll check at the end.


Hmmm, I have an old thread around here that shows an elliptical arch made easy.:whistling


----------



## katoman

A side note - I did a job where the spring line was not taken from the beginning of the arch, but about 5" below that. It was clearly shown on the drawings. When the glass guy arrived with the thermal pane window it of course wouldn't fit.

Right away he says my opening is wrong. I said nope, it's you. After I showed it to him on the drawing he went off to make a new window.

So watch out. Read the drawings. :thumbsup:


----------



## Brutus

loneframer said:


> Hmmm, I have an old thread around here that shows an elliptical arch made easy.:whistling



Bring that bad boy up!

Are there pictures? That'll help me immensely .


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

loneframer said:


> This is the only house I ever framed where I had to frame the openings first, then FedEx Tyvek templates of the ROs to the manufacturer.:blink:
> 
> All the segmented windows were built to fit.:thumbup:


Thats some beautiful work!


----------



## loneframer

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thats some beautiful work!


Thanks. Did the framing, fiber-cement and Azek trim on that one.:thumbsup: Hell of a first Azek job.:laughing:


----------



## loneframer

Brutus said:


> Bring that bad boy up!
> 
> Are there pictures? That'll help me immensely .


Yup, pics are there. One, two, three, ellipse made easy.:laughing:


----------



## FramingPro

how i did ellipse was i put nails at the base at the ends. in the centre of the rise and at the top on each end. then i have a piece that i touch to the top nails. the edge and centre one and then i nail a piece onto that that touches the lower opposite edge nail.

pull the top nails and put your pencil in the valley created by the 2 pieces and slide them along the nails keeping constant contact


----------



## FramingPro

loneframer said:


> Yup, pics are there. One, two, three, ellipse made easy.:laughing:



are those nails just spaced the hypotenuse of the rise and run?


----------



## Brutus

Thanks, Lone.


----------



## loneframer

loneframer said:


> Yup, pics are there. One, two, three, ellipse made easy.:laughing:


If you have your height and width, you simply take half the width(center line of arch) add the height and the sum is the distance you place the guide pins apart. Set your pencil the distance of the height away from one of the guide pins. Ride the guide pins along the SQUARE edges of the sheet and viola, a perfect quarter ellipse.


----------



## JT Wood

loneframer said:


> Yup, pics are there. One, two, three, ellipse made easy.:laughing:




Hey lone if you get bored you should shoot a vid of how you arrive at your calc for that. And an action shot of course.

*ok, I see the explanation, lets see the action shot


----------



## Brutus

loneframer said:


> If you have your height and width, you simply take half the width(center line of arch) add the height and the sum is the distance you place the guide pins apart. Set your pencil the distance of the height away from one of the guide pins. Ride the guide pins along the SQUARE edges of the sheet and viola, a perfect quarter ellipse.


Hey! I figured that out with just the pics! I'm smrt. :smartass:

ps- totally stealing the pics for future reference.


----------



## loneframer

Brutus said:


> Hey! I figured that out with just the pics! I'm smrt. :smartass:


Now, go to work tomorrow and amaze your friends.:clap:


----------



## FramingPro

hughjazz said:


> Hey lone if you get bored you should shoot a vid of how you arrive at your calc for that. And an action shot of course.
> 
> *ok, I see the explanation, lets see the action shot


if i am not mistaken there is not calculation required other then adding.
an ellipse is normally dictated by a rise and run.


----------



## loneframer

hughjazz said:


> Hey lone if you get bored you should shoot a vid of how you arrive at your calc for that. And an action shot of course.
> 
> *ok, I see the explanation, lets see the action shot


You asked for it.:laughing::clap::laughing:


----------



## Brutus

loneframer said:


> Now, go to work tomorrow and amaze your friends.:clap:


Friends? You mean co-workers :whistling: :laughing:


----------



## Brutus

loneframer said:


> You asked for it.:laughing::clap::laughing:


Is a catwalk between two step ladders OSHA OK? :laughing:


----------



## katoman

Thanks Lone. 

Nick, there is more than one shape of ellipse. Too complex to get into here, but you should pick up the book "Construction Geometry" by Brian Walmsley. I think Lee Valley sells it.

In his book he explains how to lay out several different shapes of ellipses in several different ways. A great book for the carpenter.


----------



## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Thanks Lone.
> 
> Nick, there is more than one shape of ellipse. Too complex to get into here, but you should pick up the book "Construction Geometry" by Brian Walmsley. I think Lee Valley sells it.
> 
> In his book he explains how to lay out several different shapes of ellipses in several different ways. A great book for the carpenter.


ok. more then 1 shape?
how so.
:blink:
i need to upgrade to a 64gb brain now.


----------



## loneframer

Brutus said:


> Is a catwalk between two step ladders OSHA OK? :laughing:


It is when it's in your driveway on a Sunday.:whistling


----------



## Brutus

katoman said:


> Thanks Lone.
> 
> Nick, there is more than one shape of ellipse. Too complex to get into here, but you should pick up the book "Construction Geometry" by Brian Walmsley. I think Lee Valley sells it.
> 
> In his book he explains how to lay out several different shapes of ellipses in several different ways. A great book for the carpenter.



After I saw this, I went to look in my book collection to see if I already have it. I don't. But I have a few that you have have seen in your time, Kato. Canadian Wood-Frame House Construction. Put out by the Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation. A Glossary of House Bulding Terms. Put out by the same people. Then there's Introduction To Woodworking and Construction by Edward Harris.

After flipping through the CDN Wood Frame one... I realized that there is a note... from my grandfather. I forgot this was a gift to me from him. He bought this book when he was building his farm in Quebec in the mid 60's. At the end... it says "good luck in the trade and I am very proud of you, Love Opa"

Yup............


----------



## katoman

FramingPro said:


> ok. more then 1 shape?
> how so.
> :blink:
> i need to upgrade to a 64gb brain now.


A true ellipse is based on a given height and width.

It can also be drawn using two circles.

It can also be drawn using rectangles.

It can also be drawn using an arc method.

And at least 3 other ways using geometry.

This resuts in ellipses being taller or wider. Depends on what the achitect calls for, or what you find pleasing to your eye.

Get the book grasshoper.


----------



## CanningCustom

That is great Brutus, make him proud @kato im not involved, im at sons hockey game. Would have loved to be around for that conversation. Thanks for steppin in lone


----------



## katoman

Well the formwork thing is about done. I think we all know the basic stuff in strip forming etc. 

So tomorrow I will delve into finish work. That covers a lot of stuff. 

I know Lone has done a lot of neat stuff, so feel free to participate Lone, but you're not getting any Timmies. :no:

Question # 1 tomorrow.


----------



## FramingPro

http://www.tradesecrets.gov.ab.ca/trades/pdf/trade_practice_exams/002_IP_PracticeExam.pdf

if this isn't Canadian carpentry then i don't know what is


----------



## loneframer

katoman said:


> Well the formwork thing is about done. I think we all know the basic stuff in strip forming etc.
> 
> So tomorrow I will delve into finish work. That covers a lot of stuff.
> 
> I know Lone has done a lot of neat stuff, so feel free to participate Lone, but you're not getting any Timmies. :no:
> 
> Question # 1 tomorrow.


I appreciate the inclusion Kato. You Canada boys are having all the fun at CT, it seems. I'm good with the Tims, you can keep them up North.:thumbup:


----------



## Brutus

FramingPro said:


> http://www.tradesecrets.gov.ab.ca/trades/pdf/trade_practice_exams/002_IP_PracticeExam.pdf
> 
> if this isn't Canadian carpentry then i don't know what is



Questions 65, Nick... haha.

And Question 72, for that matter.



WAS KATO GETTING HIS QUESTIONS FROM HERE!??!?!


----------



## Winchester

Brutus said:


> Questions 65, Nick... haha.
> 
> And Question 72, for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> WAS KATO GETTING HIS QUESTIONS FROM HERE!??!?!


These are very typical questions. I had similar on tests in some Architectural Tech. courses I was taking.


----------



## Brutus

someone hung that door.


----------



## loneframer

Brutus said:


> someone hung that door.


Ooookayyy


----------



## katoman

Ok, now the doors. Most doors that come from the manufacturer are not ready to be hung. 

First, if the legs have been left long, cut them off flush. If for some reason the door needs to be shortened, do that now.

If the doors will be stained and varnished then it is only necessary to plane a bevel on the strike side. Usually about 2*, but this may be more if it is a particularily small door.

If the door is to be painted, I bevel both sides to allow for paint build up on the hinge side.

Now drill for your passage set. A jig is nice for this, but not absolutely necessary. If you do a lot of doors, invest in the jig. There are a couple of excellent ones available.

Now sand the door, even the small shapes in the raised panel. 

I always seal the bottom of the door. The painter will not remove the door to do this. Remember, we're talking solid doors here. 

I use the jig for routing the hinges. But if you don't have one use the jamb to match your hinge locations. Of course do this before you assemble the jamb set for that door.

Same as the jambs I pre-drill for the hinge screws. And that's about it for the doors. The real work is in the jambs.

One last note - on high end work, I hang the jambs plumb regardless of the plumbness of the walls. Then I masking tape off the jamb edges and mud out the walls to match the jambs.

This is easier than trying to custom fit mitres in your cassings to fit up against out of level walls. And leaves perfect mitres.

Cassing revel is 2.5 cm. That is a standard that the rare inspector can and may check. Only happened to me once in 40 yrs. :laughing:

Later I'll ask question # 2 in the finish work


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

katoman said:


> Cassing revel is 2.5 cm. :laughing:


I always make mine 1 inch:blink:


----------



## katoman

sorry, my bad 2.5mm. Hey I'm sore and tired. TGIF


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

I have a special tape somewhere with cm,s & mm,s all over it:laughing: Do you guys use fat maxes with cm,s on em:blink:


----------



## CanningCustom

Only when i get a metric print, other than that its 99% imperial


----------



## katoman

Most of our work is still Imperial. I use a Tajima tape, no cm on it. I do have a couple of tapes with cm on them for when something gets spec'd in Metric. But that's not too often.

On the cassing revel thing, I made a simple block of oak years ago with the revel cut into it. I just use it to set my revel.

That's a true story about an inspector checking. How do you think I learned that? :laughing:


----------



## woodworkbykirk

that works.. sorry been a long painful week stuck working with whom i believe to be a junky... the guy is freaking terrifying and not in the good guy,, he was creeping me the hell out yesterday,, thank god i wasnt working with him today


----------



## Brutus

I only have a metric tape so I can convert the code book to real persons measurements haha.


----------



## Winchester

Brutus said:


> I only have a metric tape so I can convert the code book to real persons measurements haha.


The most stupid thing I've ever seen is a metric code book. ALL OF OUR MATERIALS ARE IN IMPERIAL.


----------



## Brutus

Winchester said:


> The most stupid thing I've ever seen is a metric code book. ALL OF OUR MATERIALS ARE IN IMPERIAL.


Tell me about it. I work in imperial, and when I have to go and write my exams for the apprenticeship program, everything is in metric... It's absolutely dumb.


----------



## woodworkbykirk

the exam acutally has it in both metric and imperial so you can get a better idea of what your numbers should be


----------



## katoman

Up next is crown molding. We have all run the mdf cheap stuff and caulked it to the wall and ceiling to hide the little gaps.

But let's say it's oak crown, it's only going to be varnished, so everything will show. The ceilings and walls are or course not perfectly straight. How will you go about it?

And some details please.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

Are you talkin about cornice here:blink:


----------



## katoman

Yes, interior. A lot of guys just call it crown mold.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy

katoman said:


> And some details please.


By coping the inside corners and dovetailing the field joints:whistling
This one:blink:Right


----------



## JT Wood

katoman said:


> Up next is crown molding. We have all run the mdf cheap stuff and caulked it to the wall and ceiling to hide the little gaps.
> 
> But let's say it's oak crown, it's only going to be varnished, so everything will show. The ceilings and walls are or course not perfectly straight. How will you go about it?
> 
> And some details please.


Well,

You're gonna need to transfer the contours from the wall to the crown.

I've never done this, (always mdf) 

But I think The best way is to.

get each piece up into place, mark for length,
then take a thin pencil and with it completely flat on the wall. (vertical)
run the pencil the length of the crown to transfer the contour. Obviously you want to remove as little as possible.



the corners are dovetailed, and coped.


----------



## JT Wood

kinda like this


----------



## CanningCustom

Hugh, i do the exact same thing i just use a standard #2 household homework grade pencil


----------



## loneframer

JWilliams said:


> i get that like sometimes riz, i end up getting laughed at all day but i twist tp and put in my nose. keeps snot from getting on my face and everything else.:thumbup:


I had a guy named Bill working for me (we called him Bildo) one particular Winter. he looked and talked like Rodney Dangerfield, seriously.

Well, he had taken to growing facial hair and it was real cold one day.

Bout 10 AM, I asked him to run for coffee, I'm buying. He goes and when he gets back, says "You guys suck. Why didn't you tell me I had snot-cicles in my mustache? I went in the store like that."


My reply "Why do you think I sent you in the first place?":clap:


----------



## woodworkbykirk

easy now mr williams.....:no:


----------



## katoman

If there are any more finish questions, ask now. Tomorrow we're moving on to exterior finishes. Lone will love that.

And I hate Azek.


----------



## loneframer

katoman said:


> If there are any more finish questions, ask now. Tomorrow we're moving on to exterior finishes. Lone will love that.
> 
> And I hate Azek.


Sorry Kato, runaway thread again.:sad:


----------



## katoman

loneframer said:


> Sorry Kato, runaway thread again.:sad:


No problemo, everyone likes to rant for a bit. :thumbup:


----------



## CanningCustom

here is my rant, is anyone gonna buy these tools on kijiji


----------



## woodworkbykirk

what tools

do i sense another azek thread for the lone framer


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## CanningCustom

have a hitachi strip nailer,hitachi gas framer, and older 3 pc milwaukee set


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## CanningCustom

whoops shouldnt have said that, sorry delete away!


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## loneframer

CanningCustom said:


> here is my rant, is anyone gonna buy these tools on kijiji





CanningCustom said:


> have a hitachi strip nailer,hitachi gas framer, and older 3 pc milwaukee set


How much do that cost?:blink:


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## CanningCustom

for which Riz, i have them listed seperately. 150 for air nailer, 200 for gas, 225 for milwaukee set


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## loneframer

CanningCustom said:


> for which Riz, i have them listed seperately. 150 for air nailer, 200 for gas, 225 for milwaukee set


Sorry man, just playing. I'm not really in the market for another gun just yet.:whistling


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## CanningCustom

its all good, i hope some one buys this stuff quick. Gotta put that dewalt worm up tommorow.


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## JT Wood

i missed the last one or 2 I'm in vegas this week.


I ran into some of KATO's family :laughing:


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## Winchester

Never thought I'd see a monkey with a polar bear.

Someone at the Zoo is going to get fired over this.


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## katoman

Don't any of you guys get any ideas about stuffing me :no:

Exterior finishes coming up in a minute.........


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## Brutus

It's totally been more than a minute :laughing:


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## katoman

Ok, exterior finishes. That covers a lot of products. Could be cedar shingles, wood siding, alluminum siding, vynil siding. All these are the job of the carpenter to install. 

Even though the alluminum and vynil are handled by subs usually, they do fall under carpentry.

So, first thing is to insure the integrity of the structure. This means we need to make sure the product will shed water, it is vented properly, which varies depending on the product, and of course it is installed so as to last many years. This may mean for example back priming, or other such installation techniques.

So let's start with wood sidings. Describe some of the things one would need to do to install some standard lapped bevel siding. We'll assume it's on a new home and the walls have been covered in typar. (or similar)


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## woodworkbykirk

its wednesday night,, werent you talking about it on sunday???


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## Brutus

katoman said:


> Ok, exterior finishes. That covers a lot of products. Could be cedar shingles, wood siding, alluminum siding, vynil siding. All these are the job of the carpenter to install.
> 
> Even though the alluminum and vynil are handled by subs usually, they do fall under carpentry.
> 
> So, first thing is to insure the integrity of the structure. This means we need to make sure the product will shed water, it is vented properly, which varies depending on the product, and of course it is installed so as to last many years. This may mean for example back priming, or other such installation techniques.
> 
> So let's start with wood sidings. Describe some of the things one would need to do to install some standard lapped bevel siding. We'll assume it's on a new home and the walls have been covered in typar. (or similar)


find the lowest section
figure the equal reveal of each row from the soffit line to the first row.
install a furring strip for the first row to rest on 
nail on the first row on making sure to nail into studs
set the reveal, and install next row... nail to studs... etc.


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## Chris Johnson

FramingPro said:


> hes buried in the cemetery by senlac.


What are you in the fan club?


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## katoman

Chris Johnson said:


> What are you in the fan club?


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

That was good Chris, now I just have to clean the coffee up off my desk.


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## Brutus

katoman said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> That was good Chris, now I just have to clean the coffee up off my desk.


Who's Tim Card did you use to buy it?! :whistling


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> How do you know all these things Nick? Google?:whistling


no my dad knew him i think . and the cemetery is by my house and near Chris Johsons site that i went to yesterday:clap::clap::clap:


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## FramingPro

Chris Johnson said:


> What are you in the fan club?



no. i just know these things.
Oh tommorow do you know if Paul needs help. 
besides after school i need to go back and find my knife i dropped it in the hay  in a certain spot. but being the diligent worker that i am i did not stop and look for it, for there was work to be done :whistling


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## Brutus

FramingPro said:


> no. i just know these things.
> Oh tommorow do you know if Paul needs help.
> besides after school i need to go back and find my knife i dropped it in the hay  in a certain spot. but being the diligent worker that i am i did not stop and look for it, for there was work to be done :whistling


Hey, Nick, what's that brown spot there on your nose? :laughing:


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## FramingPro

Brutus said:


> Hey, Nick, what's that brown spot there on your nose? :laughing:



thats mud because i was working so hard i unfroze the ground and kicked up mud. :whistling


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## katoman

FramingPro said:


> no. i just know these things.
> Oh tommorow do you know if Paul needs help.
> besides after school i need to go back and find my knife i dropped it in the hay  in a certain spot. but being the diligent worker that i am i did not stop and look for it, for there was work to be done :whistling


OMG  I can't believe you actually posted that. :laughing:


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> OMG  I can't believe you actually posted that. :laughing:


i only post the truth :whistling


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## Chris Johnson

Tape measures, knives and bits are bought in bulk...just grab a new one from my truck or trailer


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## FramingPro

Chris Johnson said:


> Tape measures, knives and bits are bought in bulk...just grab a new one from my truck or trailer


ill look first. because that was a good knife 
if not i might have to take you up on that offer. thank you very muchb


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## katoman

Chris Johnson said:


> Tape measures, knives and bits are bought in bulk...just grab a new one from my truck or trailer


Thanks Chris, you're a generous guy. Now, where are you parked tomorrow?


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## Brutus

Chris Johnson said:


> Tape measures, knives and bits are bought in bulk...just grab a new one from my truck or trailer


I'll take a new olfa knife, a 25 pack of blades, fat maxs (16 and 30), and a new Irwin Speed Bore 3/4. I'll pm ya my address. :laughing:


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## Chris Johnson

Don't forgot to finish tying the rebar and get the shoring set up before you leave site, concrete is 8:00am Tuesday


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## CanningCustom

haha you guys are too much :laughing:


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## CanningCustom

im glad to see i am not the only one who buys knives, blades, tapes in bulk. Saw blades too!!!!


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## katoman

Chris Johnson said:


> Don't forgot to finish tying the rebar and get the shoring set up before you leave site, concrete is 8:00am Tuesday


Aren't you going to be there? Nicks' running the job now? :blink:


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## CanningCustom

hey kato, did you ever get the pics for that other thread?


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## katoman

Sorry, super busy. I'll get the pics tomorrow. :notworthy


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## FramingPro

Chris Johnson said:


> Don't forgot to finish tying the rebar and get the shoring set up before you leave site, concrete is 8:00am Tuesday



wait what???? 
Where?
I still have school this week. And Shoring? Rebar? for what


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