# Wrapping outlets with tape



## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

We're reskinning some walls on a remodel, which requires us to pull out the outlets while we hang the rock. Working live, so we're wrapping the devices with tape to prevent shocks while we handle them. We will remove the tape when we reinstall.

But it got me to wondering why not again. I know it's not good to tape them up but would like to know the reasoning behind it.

I know, it's been discussed. I just need to get my post count up so I can get to the next secret room. :>)

TIA

Good Luck
Dave


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Always done it. Once around to keep it from shorting when installing or removing.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

I do it all the time when residing a house. Lot of times don't pull it off. Is there a reason that it should be?


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

No need to pull it off


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## HeyGuiher (Dec 22, 2010)

I've always left it on, especially on metal boxes.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

The only reason to tape devices is when the job specs state it so I can increase my bid.

If you're pulling out energized devices, 1 you shouldn't be doing so when they're live and 2 they should be deenergized while they're hanging out.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

480sparky said:


> The only reason to tape devices is when the job specs state it so I can increase my bid.
> 
> If you're pulling out energized devices, 1 you shouldn't be doing so when they're live and 2 they should be deenergized while they're hanging out.


Anticipated, appreciated. Could be some more of that senior brain trickery, but I thought I recalled some heated debate on the subject in these halls. I was of the impression that it was somehow detrimental to the device.

Here I was in the mood to be educated a little and instead I reveal a senior moment. This thread is not going well.

Good Luck
Dave


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

My step dad is a master spark and he wraps before shoving them in the box. 

He used to be supervisor of elect inspectors in a large city in my area and is down right pain in the a$$ about code and even beyond code so if he does it I can't imagine it is not something you shouldn't do.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

r4r&r said:


> My step dad is a master spark and he wraps before shoving them in the box.
> 
> He used to be supervisor of elect inspectors in a large city in my area and is down right pain in the a$$ about code and even beyond code so if he does it I can't imagine it is not something you shouldn't do.


It's not really a question of whether you should or shouldn't, but WHY? So some untrained people can monkey around with energized devices?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> The only reason to tape devices is when the job specs state it so I can increase my bid.
> 
> If you're pulling out energized devices, 1 you shouldn't be doing so when they're live and 2 they should be deenergized while they're hanging out.


Nice way of thinking, but not always realistic.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

480sparky said:


> It's not really a question of whether you should or shouldn't, but WHY? So some untrained people can monkey around with energized devices?


He said it was habit from metal boxes to keep them shorting against them.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> It's not really a question of whether you should or shouldn't, but WHY? So some untrained people can monkey around with energized devices?


Again, there are a lot of factors that are involved. I am not untrained, but often work with hot devices. I am not going to run up and down the stairs turning the breaker off and on to TS a device. Most panels aren't even labeled properly. I am not going to try and label a panel when all that I have to do is swap out an outlet. It's just silly. Putting a little tape doesn't add that much time or money to a job. 10 rolls for under $10. 5 seconds to wrap a device. Not going to break the bank and gives a little added safety.

Plus, an untrained monkey is going to mess with an energized device regardless of it being taped or not.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Just leave the tape on.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Again, there are a lot of factors that are involved. I am not untrained, but often work with hot devices. I am not going to run up and down the stairs turning the breaker off and on to TS a device. Most panels aren't even labeled properly. I am not going to try and label a panel when all that I have to do is swap out an outlet. It's just silly. Putting a little tape doesn't add that much time or money to a job. 10 rolls for under $10. 5 seconds to wrap a device. Not going to break the bank and gives a little added safety.
> 
> Plus, an untrained monkey is going to mess with an energized device regardless of it being taped or not.


Shocking monkies is the only way to teach them.

The only ones I ever tape are the fat lutron double switches because it's easy to tap the screw to the box when ramming it in...not that I ever touch them live. :whistling


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Again, there are a lot of factors that are involved. I am not untrained, but often work with hot devices. I am not going to run up and down the stairs turning the breaker off and on to TS a device. Most panels aren't even labeled properly. I am not going to try and label a panel when all that I have to do is swap out an outlet. It's just silly. Putting a little tape doesn't add that much time or money to a job. 10 rolls for under $10. 5 seconds to wrap a device. Not going to break the bank and gives a little added safety.
> 
> Plus, an untrained monkey is going to mess with an energized device regardless of it being taped or not.


Is that what you would tell the OSHA inspector?:whistling


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Is that what you would tell the OSHA inspector?:whistling


Okay so I will operate like an OSHA inspector is on my site everyday, yeah right. Again, let's step down from the high horse and live in the real world. OSHA is a joke and like all other gov't agencies they will regulate and regulate until they take Darwin out of the equation.

Remember these are the same guys that tell me I need a harness to go on my 8' ladder. And I am sure that OSHA would pitch a fit on 90% of how any of us cut a 2x4. Sparky I am not advocating playing in a panel or saying we should steady ourselves by holding a copper pipe while we open a live outlet. I am just saying that I live in the real world.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Wait!!

You mean there's more secret rooms?!

This place is like a dang labyrinth.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Okay so I will operate like an OSHA inspector is on my site everyday, yeah right. Again, let's step down from the high horse and live in the real world. OSHA is a joke and like all other gov't agencies they will regulate and regulate until they take Darwin out of the equation.
> 
> Remember these are the same guys that tell me I need a harness to go on my 8' ladder. And I am sure that OSHA would pitch a fit on 90% of how any of us cut a 2x4. Sparky I am not advocating playing in a panel or saying we should steady ourselves by holding a copper pipe while we open a live outlet. I am just saying that I live in the real world.


Pffft I swap/add breakers live too, just don't lick your fingers and grab the legs. :laughing:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Sometimes I bend the metal tabs over on the outlets during a remodel so I can fit sheetrock around it without having to take them out. I don't know if that's the right thing to do, but it seems harmless to me. Except I usually just replace all the outlets on a remodel, so they will come out anyway. Most the time they need to be replaced if it's an old house. If you repaint the walls and fix up everything else in the room then leave the old outlets, they will stand out and look really bad. So I usually replace them.


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## JSM_CC (Jul 25, 2012)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Sometimes I bend the metal tabs over on the outlets during a remodel so I can fit sheetrock around it without having to take them out. I don't know if that's the right thing to do, but it seems harmless to me. Except I usually just replace all the outlets on a remodel, so they will come out anyway. Most the time they need to be replaced if it's an old house. If you repaint the walls and fix up everything else in the room then leave the old outlets, they will stand out and look really bad. So I usually replace them.


I could be wrong but i think those tabs are made to easily break off and used as spacer washers to adjust the recepticle in the box with the cover plate.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Driving on the highway is more dangerous than pulling a live outlet. :whistling:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Even a 12yr old can wrap tape around a receptacle :whistling.


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## Shunttripper (Sep 5, 2012)

I feel strange if i dont tape an outlet at install. 

I have seen instances where an outlet got shifted and arced on the box...due to general abuse. Usually cut in boxes and handies but i always thought it a good habit.

If it compromises the device please Let me know! First i heard of that.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

DavidC said:


> I am racking my brain to come up with a question for the plumbers. :>)
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave


Just ask about sharkbite fittings, mention how much you love them. Then head over to drywall and say you've been thinking about trying mesh tape. Havent had that discussion in a few weeks. :thumbup:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

jkfox624 said:


> Just ask about sharkbite fittings, mention how much you love them. Then head over to drywall and say you've been thinking about trying mesh tape. Havent had that discussion in a few weeks. :thumbup:




:laughing: :thumbsup: :boxing:


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

jkfox624 said:


> Just ask about sharkbite fittings, mention how much you love them. Then head over to drywall and say you've been thinking about trying mesh tape. Havent had that discussion in a few weeks. :thumbup:


right on brother! but apparently you must be carefull how you ask. i made the mesh tape joke a while back and got yelled at for it. apparently only certain people are allowed to joke about some things.. oh well.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Egos, or truth?
> 
> 
> Rather diplomatic way of backing out.


Nah, Calling someone ignorant is an ego trip. Me wanting to call you one is the same. The fact that you can't let it go, that I did back down and now you have to continue to poke the bear speaks volumes.:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Nah, Calling someone ignorant is an ego trip. Me wanting to call you one is the same. The fact that you can't let it go, that I did back down and now you have to continue to poke the bear speaks volumes.:thumbsup:


"Ignorant" isn't a derogatory term, unless you let it be one. In this case, you are. We ALL are ignorant, just in different areas. I am simply trying to educate you on something you're ignorant about.

What is sad is you do not want to learn.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I don't do electrical cause you have to have a license here for it. If I did I would have no problem pulling a live outlet out of the wall. That said, I wouldn't argue with a licensed electrician. I'm pretty sure that they know more than an unlicensed person. Kinda like arguing with an engineer about what size beam is needed. Sure alot of people do alot of things and most of the time they don't get hurt. It doesn't make the risk any less. Just means alot of people get lucky alot of the time.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

jkfox624 said:


> Just ask about sharkbite fittings, mention how much you love them. Then head over to drywall and say you've been thinking about trying mesh tape. Havent had that discussion in a few weeks. :thumbup:


Whats wrong with sharkbites and mesh tape? I use them if i have to, oh wait, that makes me a hack :laughing:.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Has Rob got in an argument with every member?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i think the only one he hasn't is with tnt


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Has Rob got in an argument with every member?


Are you counting the ones that don't have any posts?:laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> Are you counting the ones that don't have any posts?:laughing:


People with no posts are irrelevant .. :whistling


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> "Ignorant" isn't a derogatory term, unless you let it be one. In this case, you are. We ALL are ignorant, just in different areas. I am simply trying to educate you on something you're ignorant about.
> 
> What is sad is you do not want to learn.


Whatever makes you feel better about what and how you did it...:thumbsup:

I had a few responses typed out but I really don't care enough about this or you to respond any longer. If you continue on this line I will be forced to ignore you.

Like I said, I give up. I am ignorant and you are right. Now go find someone else to annoy.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Has Rob got in an argument with every member?


Let's go back and read the posts. I don't think it was I who was arguing. I made a statement and Sparky started in on me. Not the other way around.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Let's go back and read the posts. I don't think it was I who was arguing. I made a statement and Sparky started in on me. Not the other way around.


Its ok Rob. I admire your unwaivering desire to disagree and be right. You could of been a good trial lawyer.

Just be nicer...


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Takes two to argue.....Just sayin...:whistling


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## VAviaCo (Sep 3, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> To get back to the OP. There is nothing wrong with wrapping outlets with tape. Unfortunately egos had to take the thread over, so I apologize for that.


I don't think the OP cared about the tape. He wanted to see a fight.

Who is Rob? Oh, you mean that guy the helped me learn about different wire gauges vs breaker sizes this summer? :rockon:

Never wrap tape around an outlet, it makes the heat build up inside there and can melt things (not really, just trying to think of a possible reason).


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

jkfox624 said:


> Just ask about sharkbite fittings, mention how much you love them. Then head over to drywall and say you've been thinking about trying mesh tape. Havent had that discussion in a few weeks. :thumbup:


I thought Sharkbite fittings were the new way to plumb because they realized that all the old ways were crap?


:whistling


I wrap.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

Tom Struble said:


> i think the only one he hasn't is with tnt


:laughing:

I bet your wrong on that one... :laughing:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

moorewarner said:


> :laughing:
> 
> I bet your wrong on that one... :laughing:


x2..:laughing::jester:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Okay so you are saying that the 100amp main breaker is equal to the 15 amp outlet?


Yes, breakers will protect a device or wire from frying, but it's not going to protect a human body. I remember an electrician telling me he only installs 15 amp breakers in bathrooms just in case someone drops a hair dryer in the sink. I didn't say anything to him but umm... if you ever have 15 amps going through your body, you're going to be fried, the breaker won't save you. 

Here is one of those charts online, from what I remember, 0.2 amps is usually when it becomes fatal.


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

DavidC said:


> We're reskinning some walls on a remodel, which requires us to pull out the outlets while we hang the rock. Working live, so we're wrapping the devices with tape to prevent shocks while we handle them. We will remove the tape when we reinstall.
> 
> But it got me to wondering why not again. I know it's not good to tape them up but would like to know the reasoning behind it.
> 
> ...


Yes I always tape my devises..


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

DavidC said:


> We're reskinning some walls on a remodel, which requires us to pull out the outlets while we hang the rock. Working live, so we're wrapping the devices with tape to prevent shocks while we handle them. We will remove the tape when we reinstall.
> 
> But it got me to wondering why not again. I know it's not good to tape them up but would like to know the reasoning behind it.
> 
> ...


Whats this next secret room??:blink::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

DavidC said:


> We're reskinning some walls on a remodel, which requires us to pull out the outlets while we hang the rock. Working live, so we're wrapping the devices with tape to prevent shocks while we handle them. We will remove the tape when we reinstall.
> 
> But it got me to wondering why not again. I know it's not good to tape them up but would like to know the reasoning behind it.
> 
> ...


How many posts do you need??:whistling:blink::laughing:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

HARRY304E said:


> Whats this next secret room??:blink::laughing:


Can't say.....:whistling :thumbup: :laughing::laughing:


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

griz said:


> Can't say.....:whistling :thumbup: :laughing::laughing:


:laughing::laughing:


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## Mr Rewire (Aug 30, 2012)

If I am working by the hour I will tape if by the job I wont


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

HARRY304E said:


> Whats this next secret room??:blink::laughing:


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agi8PUmlAKU&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Mr Rewire said:


> If I am working by the hour I will tape if by the job I wont


Thats just wrong


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

I dont see whats the big deal of wraping a piece of tape around a receptacle of switch. for gods sake. whats a roll. 2 bux? and what do you charge to replace a receptacle.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

I Mester said:


> I dont see whats the big deal of wraping a piece of tape around a receptacle of switch. for gods sake. whats a roll. 2 bux? and what do you charge to replace a receptacle.


Just about tree fiddy.


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## JSM_CC (Jul 25, 2012)

Lockness monsters like tree fiddy


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

JSM_CC said:


> Lockness monsters like tree fiddy


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cn7xfBpZ3M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thats funny, very few people know where 3 fiddy came from


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cn7xfBpZ3M&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> Thats funny, very few people know where 3 fiddy came from


I didnt until it got spammed to hell here about 3 years ago. :laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I will wrap them in duct tape for tree fiddy :thumbsup:


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

If the boxes are metal I ask the sparky to wrap 'em.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I Mester said:


> I dont see whats the big deal of wraping a piece of tape around a receptacle of switch. for gods sake. whats a roll. 2 bux? and what do you charge to replace a receptacle.



Time is money.

Taking time to do something that has no real value costs money.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Time is money.
> 
> Taking time to do something that has no real value costs money.


Just so I know...Is there anything bad gonna happen if you wrap tape on an outlet? I get charging more if it is requested. But will it burn down the house or somethin?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> Just so I know...Is there anything bad gonna happen if you wrap tape on an outlet? I get charging more if it is requested. But will it burn down the house or somethin?


No, it won't burn the house down. But it needlessly burns money and add to the cost to the consumer when there's no advantage.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> No, it won't burn the house down. But it needlessly burns money and add to the cost to the consumer when there's no advantage.


One advantage is reduced risk of shock and or breaker tripping while removing the device during a future renovation.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

how much could it possibly cost?:blink:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> One advantage is reduced risk of shock and or breaker tripping while removing the device during a future renovation.


And we've come full circle to where _*you really shouldn't be doing this*_.

Since you guys *just won't listen*, I'm done here.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> And we've come full circle to where you really shouldn't be doing this.
> 
> Since you guys just won't listen, I'm done here.


I dont use metal boxes and use a licensed sparky for reno tie ins so I have never taped one, just exploring possible advantages. No need to take your toys and go home...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

he had toys?:sad:


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

I'm taking MY bat and ball and I'm going home!


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I dont use metal boxes and use a licensed sparky for reno tie ins so I have never taped one, just exploring possible advantages. No need to take your toys and go home...


You don't use metal boxes with EMT or Rigid? Interesting...


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

you must use metal boxes for emt and rigid and armored cable


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I Mester said:


> you must use metal boxes for emt and rigid and armored cable


I never seen any of that in residential here....


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

we dont get much emt in residential. but the armored cable there is still plenty of around.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

480sparky said:


> No, it won't burn the house down. But it needlessly burns money and add to the cost to the consumer when there's no advantage.


Ahh, I like 'em wrapped with metal boxes because we are always taking one or two them out for one reason or another and those hots seem to touch the sides and arc.


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## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

I'm no electrician but it always seemed like a safe option as you never know who will play with it after you leave


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

480sparky said:


> Since you guys *just won't listen*, I'm done here.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

AirdrieHandyman said:


> I'm no electrician but it always seemed like a safe option as you never know who will play with it after you leave


Nobody should be "playing "with anything unless they know what they are doing. I sometimes wrap devices if I know a tile guy is coming in to work after me for a kitchen backsplash and he has to pull them and put them back in, for example, but anyone who wants to play electrician without actually being one has taken that risk upon themselves.

Any electrician can tell *in a second or two* after opening any box if an unqualified person has been working in there. It is unusual but refreshing when I open a box to see that it is undisturbed from when the last true pro was in there.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

As a tile guy, I appreciate the outlets being wrapped when I do my backsplash. But then I have to change all the screws to longer ones for the thickness of the tile. Can't win.


BTW, what was the original question?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

olzo55 said:


> But then I have to change all the screws to longer ones for the thickness of the tile.


I've seldom seen tile applied over existing outlets without creating a code violation. :whistling


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> I've seldom seen tile applied over existing outlets without creating a code violation. :whistling


Wow! I get the whole 1/4" thing, but he obviously means pulling the devices through the tile and reinstalling them with the ears on top of the tile.

Have a bad day Tin? 

BTW, every single time I am just the electrical sub and use the correct sized plaster rings, the drywallers mud out to nearly the edge of the plaster ring anyway. Can't win here. And just try to put one of those 1 inch raised rings in for a granite guy to cut around. FORGET it. That's one NEC requirement that I'll bet few people can comply with when there are multiple trades involved.

I usually have to go back and install plastic extension rings to make it right...strike that....EVERY time.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> Wow! I get the whole 1/4" thing, but he obviously means pulling the devices through the tile and reinstalling them with the ears on top of the tile.


But that *is* the whole 1/4" thing, and I know of very few tile guys who are aware of it. That 1/4"+ gap between the faceplate and the box is a violation, regardless of whether it's silly in that situation.

Just one of my little personal campaigns to spread awareness. :thumbsup:

As for a bad day, I woke up breathing, so it'll do. :laughing:


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## shesbros (Jun 15, 2005)

Wait wait wait..

What color tape should I be using?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> Wow! I get the whole 1/4" thing, but he obviously means pulling the devices through the tile and reinstalling them with the ears on top of the tile.
> 
> Have a bad day Tin?
> 
> ...


From your posts I know we both work in the Chicagoland area. With EMT being the norm, I use these when I know where tile or cabinet backs may affect the face of the rings lining up with the finished surface;

http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele...d-device-covers/for-4-square-three-gang-boxes

I believe Carlon makes adjustable boxes for NM.

I don't tape.............most of the time.

Tom


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## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Nobody should be "playing "with anything unless they know what they are doing. I sometimes wrap devices if I know a tile guy is coming in to work after me for a kitchen backsplash and he has to pull them and put them back in, for example, but anyone who wants to play electrician without actually being one has taken that risk upon themselves.
> 
> Any electrician can tell in a second or two after opening any box if an unqualified person has been working in there. It is unusual but refreshing when I open a box to see that it is undisturbed from when the last true pro was in there.


That's exactly what I was refereeing too. Or someone changing out a broken face plate

Or do I need a electrician to change broken face plates and move plugs for tile.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

AirdrieHandyman said:


> That's exactly what I was refereeing too. Or someone changing out a broken face plate
> 
> Or do I need a electrician to change broken face plates and move plugs for tile.


No, but Sparky is advocating you lock-out/tag-out the breaker to replace a plate.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> No, but Sparky is advocating you lock-out/tag-out the breaker to replace a plate.


I actually agree in principle...in practice well, it is what it is.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

AirdrieHandyman said:


> That's exactly what I was refereeing too. Or someone changing out a broken face plate
> 
> Or do I need a electrician to change broken face plates and move plugs for tile.


The answer to this question if you are within the borders of Chocago is -yes. Any and all electrical work requires a permit, the permit will only be issue to a licensed electrican. Even the homeowner cannot pull an electrical permit. 

Tom


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I actually agree in principle...in practice well, it is what it is.


What's your point? We all agree that in principle it would be the only way to do it 100% safely, but like I said, I live in the real world.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> From your posts I know we both work in the Chicagoland area. With EMT being the norm, I use these when I know where tile or cabinet backs may affect the face of the rings lining up with the finished surface;
> 
> http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele...d-device-covers/for-4-square-three-gang-boxes
> 
> ...


geez, I wish I could find a link to the product but I can't right now.

It's a Garvin product also I believe. I usually go snap them in just prior to a rough inspection on kitchen splashes where I know a tile or granite splash will end up being installed. They're tan in color. Truth be told, we usually pull them out completely after the inspection since they force GFCI's and dimmers to tilt and not sit pretty. They also cause the cover plate to sit proud of the wall and customers hate it.

I guess that makes me a hack.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> What's your point? We all agree that in principle it would be the only way to do it 100% safely, but like I said, I live in the real world.


What's your point? Like I said......


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> The answer to this question if you are within the borders of Chocago is -yes. Any and all electrical work requires a permit, the permit will only be issue to a licensed electrican. Even the homeowner cannot pull an electrical permit.
> 
> Tom


Another reason why unions blow!


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> geez, I wish I could find a link to the product but I can't right now.
> 
> It's a Garvin product also I believe. I usually go snap them in just prior to a rough inspection on kitchen splashes where I know a tile or granite splash will end up being installed. They're tan in color. Truth be told, we usually pull them out completely after the inspection since they force GFCI's and dimmers to tilt and not sit pretty. They also cause the cover plate to sit proud of the wall and customers hate it.
> 
> I guess that makes me a hack.


Although we share the same code of no more than a 1/4" NC material between box and device for some reason no inspector calls it. I've never seen a back splash or stone wall where the proper size box extender was used...just a couple 6-32nd X 3" screws.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Although we share the same code of no more than a 1/4" NC material between box and device for some reason no inspector calls it. I've never seen a back splash or stone wall where the proper size box extender was used...just a couple 6-32nd X 3" screws.


Never been failed on it either. Most of the electrical inspectors around here totally get that cause they have been in that spot themselves as EC's. (Not knowing the exact wall finish)


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> What's your point? Like I said......


My point was to seek you intent. Was it to insinuate I did not agree with the principle?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> I guess that makes me a hack.


well..that..among other things


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> My point was to seek you intent. Was it to insinuate I did not agree with the principle?


My intent was to say what I said. I actually didn't see where you posted other than the post I quoted. So no it wasn't to insinuate anything. My intent was to simply post my opinion, which you happen to agree with, so chill a little. It's ok to agree once in awhile.:thumbsup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> My intent was to say what I said. I actually didn't see where you posted other than the post I quoted. So no it wasn't to insinuate anything. My intent was to simply post my opinion, which you happen to agree with, so chill a little. It's ok to agree once in awhile.:thumbsup:


There is no need to chill. See, that's why I asked. I didn't want to assume anything. Hence the question...All you had to do was answer the question, but I guess saying that you agree with me is a hard thing to do. :laughing:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tom Struble said:


> well..that..among other things


You always have a way with words...OK, I've had a bad couple weeks....let's roll! :laughing:


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

i think you're talking about these extenders.

http://www.cableorganizer.com/arlington-industries/recessed-electric-box-extender.html


we use them all the time. they're great


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> My intent was to say what I said. I actually didn't see where you posted other than the post I quoted. So no it wasn't to insinuate anything. My intent was to simply post my opinion, which you happen to agree with, so chill a little. It's ok to agree once in awhile.:thumbsup:


TNT agree? That could cause a serious disruption in the space-time continuum.


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

for tile install I use


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> You always have a way with words...OK, I've had a bad couple weeks....let's roll! :laughing:


Beers? Wednesday?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> TNT agree? That could cause a serious disruption in the space-time continuum.


More like a brain hemorrhage...


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I Mester said:


> i think you're talking about these extenders.
> 
> http://www.cableorganizer.com/arlington-industries/recessed-electric-box-extender.html
> 
> ...


Those are the ones. They call then Arlington extenders at the supply house. I usually just go in back and pick a bunch of them up and bring them to the counter. Thanks! They don't work with larger devices like GFCI's and dimmer very well, but codes is codes.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> There is no need to chill. See, that's why I asked. I didn't want to assume anything. Hence the question...All you had to do was answer the question, but I guess saying that you agree with me is a hard thing to do. :laughing:


I just said you agree with me...How's that a hard thing to do?:whistling
I am glad we got it straight that you agree with me.:laughing:


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

yea. they're tight around the gfci's and the lutron dimmers. but like you said. code is code.
when we rough it out. we use the adjustable boxes. so when all's done set up to proper depth and you're done. but these things are a lifesaver


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> geez, I wish I could find a link to the product but I can't right now.
> 
> It's a Garvin product also I believe. I usually go snap them in just prior to a rough inspection on kitchen splashes where I know a tile or granite splash will end up being installed. They're tan in color. Truth be told, we usually pull them out completely after the inspection since they force GFCI's and dimmers to tilt and not sit pretty. They also cause the cover plate to sit proud of the wall and customers hate it.
> 
> I guess that makes me a hack.



These;??

http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/miscellaneous/box-extenders/BE1

They are from Arlington Industries. I get them from Evergreen Oak. They have other extenders on their web site. 

I use the Garvin rings. Like you said these get restrictive. 

Tom


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I just said you agree with me...How's that a hard thing to do?:whistling
> I am glad we got it straight that you agree with me.:laughing:


I don't know, when I asked what your point was, you didn't explain, so....


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Beers? Wednesday?


I'll be on the South Side of Chicongo Wednesday and Thursday helping out a buddy who is in PP there as a side gig, and is also my HVAC contractor. 

If I'm still alive or not in jail after that, YES! But we should probably plan on crosstown sometime next week as a safer plan. :thumbsup:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Another reason why unions blow!


You do not have to belong to IBEW 134 to be a licensed electrical contractor in Chicago. 

Tom


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I don't know, when I asked what your point was, you didn't explain, so....


Just admit it. You agreed with me.:jester:


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Wow what a hot thread over taping elec. devices. Just remember a sudden crack or spark will startle you, but a piece of hot metal flying at warp speed will put your eye out. Check your policy to make sure you're covered then tape away


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> You do not have to belong to IBEW 134 to be a licensed electrical contractor in Chicago.
> 
> Tom


Right, but that wasn't my point. I used to own a low voltage contracting company in the city and my business partner used to be local 134. So again, no need for an education on my end, however do you know why the construction laws are the way in Chicago? The unions. They lobbied for those laws and the strict requirements to become licensed in Chicago. No other municipality is any where near as strict as Chicago. Why is that? Unions, plain and simple.

Next...


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> Just admit it. You agreed with me.:jester:


I agree with you...that I was right. :clap:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I agree with you...that I was right. :clap:


I agree. You were absolutely right to agree with me.:thumbup::clap:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> These;??
> 
> http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/miscellaneous/box-extenders/BE1
> 
> ...


Those would be the exact ones!:thumbsup:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> I get them from Evergreen Oak.


PS. EO has their use for convenience sake, but they pretty much suck. Check out this place.

http://www.vpes.net/

Friggin phenomenal service and the best supply house in the land.

The problem is that they are way out of my service area usually.

If you are around there, you can't go wrong with this supply house.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Whatever makes you feel better about what and how you did it...:thumbsup:
> 
> I had a few responses typed out but I really don't care enough about this or you to respond any longer. If you continue on this line I will be forced to ignore you.
> 
> Like I said, I give up. I am ignorant and you are right. Now go find someone else to annoy.


 When someone offers life saving advise, you shouldn't kick them in the teeth.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

skyhook said:


> When someone offers life saving advise, you shouldn't kick them in the teeth.


C'mon Rob...Agree :thumbup:Agree:thumbup: It's ok...


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Right, but that wasn't my point. I used to own a low voltage contracting company in the city and my business partner used to be local 134. So again, no need for an education on my end, however do you know why the construction laws are the way in Chicago? The unions. They lobbied for those laws and the strict requirements to become licensed in Chicago. No other municipality is any where near as strict as Chicago. Why is that? Unions, plain and simple.
> 
> Next...


I had to register in Naperville, and every other municipality I work in. In Indiana I also have to register everywhere I work. 

Napperville also requires a permit for any electrical work. 

In Chicago electrical is the only trade with the requirement, if you wish to do your own plumbing(or anything else) it is allowed. They claim the rule was written for the safety of the person performing the work. True or not, that is their explaination.

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> PS. EO has their use for convenience sake, but they pretty much suck. Check out this place.
> 
> http://www.vpes.net/
> 
> ...


So far I've had no issue with EO. I'm doing a job in Barrington and River Forest , I'll take a look at Villa Park.

Thanks for the lead.

Tom


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

skyhook said:


> When someone offers life saving advise, you shouldn't kick them in the teeth.


Someday you realize that it's not the message but the delivery that matters. :thumbsup:

Trust me, I have delivered enough great messages in the wrong package, just ask anyone here. :laughing:


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