# Bucket Truck and Out Door lighting



## mataman_1 (Nov 21, 2011)

My Name is Hector, our company just recently purchased a bucket lift for one of our vans. We were thinking about getting into changing out light bulbs and lighting for local businesses in there parking lots, and also residential lighting. Does anyone on this forum know if you have to have a special license to do this? Your help would be greatly appreciated....

Thank you.


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## mataman_1 (Nov 21, 2011)

*Commercial Lighting, Fixtures, bulbs, ETC......*

We just recently bought a bucket lift for one of our vans. We are thinking about getting into changing out Light bulbs and Fixtures for both Commercial and residential Dwellings. We were wondering if anyone out there knows where we can get Information and Pricing for both, we were also wanting to know if there is a common light bulb for commercial parking lots, like McDonald's, Taco Bell, Gas stations, Yard Lights for Homes, ETC.... Any information on this would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you.....


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Threads merged. Please do not multi-post the same question; if anyone has input, one thread will suffice.


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## mataman_1 (Nov 21, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> Threads merged. Please do not multi-post the same question; if anyone has input, one thread will suffice.


Don't really see what the big deal is, I rephrased what I was asking!


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Sorry, I see now that the two posts were indeed asking different questions. They just both started the same way. 

Well, at least now they're in the same place. Anyone into that line of work can probably give you input on both. :thumbsup:


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I don't know what the licensing laws are in Neb. but in CA there are a couple of things. First, the answer to your question, if you were in CA, is that YES, you do need a separate contractor's license to do parking lot lighting, including the bulbs, signage lighting, signage and any other outdoor or indoor electrical lighting. 

There is a separate license just for electrical signage: 
C45 - Sign Contractor
California Code of Regulations
Title 16, Division 8, Article 3. Classifications

A sign contractor fabricates, installs, and erects electrical signs, including the wiring of such electrical signs, and non-electrical signs, including but not limited to: post or pole supported signs, signs attached to structures, painted wall signs, and modifications to existing signs.

As far as pole lighting, parking lot lighting, etc. I have seen some C45 contractors doing this, but is is mostly done by C10 Electrical Contractors (like myself). 

I have also done electrical for signage, which is a gray area. I am not replacing the signs or putting the signs up, I am replacing and/or repairing the existing electrical and lighting within the signs. There is no "one size fits all" solution to the electrical/lighting for signs. Most are high intensity fluorescent, but ballast spec's vary. Plus many signs are custom made so that the bulb spec's also vary. 

I have heard that some signs are going to LED illumination, but I have not personally worked on them myself.

A lot of parking lot lights are Metal Halide bulbs, but vary on voltage. Some are 110vac, 220vac and 277vac (which found in 3 phase systems). There are also Sodium bulbs and others (like going to LED).

Residential lighting is again " No one size fits all". Some landscape is 12vac, some 24vac and some 110vac, depends on the manufacturer and the quality of the system.


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## mataman_1 (Nov 21, 2011)

cwatbay said:


> I don't know what the licensing laws are in Neb. but in CA there are a couple of things. First, the answer to your question, if you were in CA, is that YES, you do need a separate contractor's license to do parking lot lighting, including the bulbs, signage lighting, signage and any other outdoor or indoor electrical lighting.
> 
> There is a separate license just for electrical signage:
> C45 - Sign Contractor
> ...


Is there a company that you would suggest, possibly on-line that would carry all these different assortments of bulbs?


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I don't know who is in your area, but sometimes I use Westside Electrical in Los Angeles. Otherwise I use local suppliers in the SF Bay Area. 

If I were you, I would do an online search for commercial lighting and light bulb suppliers, then compare pricing and shipping info. You would be looking for Fluorescent, Metal Halide, Sodium and possibly LED lights (bulbs) and fixtures. 







mataman_1 said:


> Is there a company that you would suggest, possibly on-line that would carry all these different assortments of bulbs?


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## mataman_1 (Nov 21, 2011)

cwatbay said:


> I don't know who is in your area, but sometimes I use Westside Electrical in Los Angeles. Otherwise I use local suppliers in the SF Bay Area.
> 
> If I were you, I would do an online search for commercial lighting and light bulb suppliers, then compare pricing and shipping info. You would be looking for Fluorescent, Metal Halide, Sodium and possibly LED lights (bulbs) and fixtures.


Thank you so much for all the info, it was very useful....


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

One voltage he left off is 208 3 phase. We worked on a lot of lighting in commercial buildings, and hotels / light commercial often had 208 because you don't need a separate service to get 120v for your lights / receptacles.

Metal halide, and high pressure sodium are the predominant types. They vary in wattage, usually from 150 - 1000 watts.

In addition to bulbs, the ballasts often go out. They usually come in a kit with all the guts except the socket. If the ballast burns out, replace it all.

The guy I worked for was a service electrician, and didn't do lighting contracts so I'm of limited assistance there but I'll tell you what I know.

The companies that do fixed monthly prices to keep all the lights going use whats called Mean Time Before Failure, or MTBF. They know how many hours a ballast will last, and how long a bulb will last. Then calculate how long during a month it will be burning, and make sure you count the difference in dark hours between winter / summer.

Lets say there's a 5k hour MTBF on a bulb, and assume 12 hours dark average for a month - the time it will be burning.

There are 730 hours in a month roughly. That's 365 hours / month the bulb will be burning. That's 13.7 months you should get out of the average bulb.

Now assume you've got 10 lights in a parking lot. You'll be replacing about 1 / month - actually a little less than 1 / month, but add in a little fudge factor.

A good bulb will last longer than a cheap one. A cheap one will also slant the MTBF number - statistics lie! in their favor a bit.

Don't only use the bulbs cost when you're figuring out whether the cheap ones or good ones will make you more money. You've also got to run that truck, and put a guy in the bucket.

If a good bulb is 40% more than a cheap one, and only lasts 25% longer, you're probably still ahead of the game with the more expensive one.

For the contracts: Don't just contract to keep all the lights burning no matter what. Specify electrical components from the box at the ground to the light bulb, or you might find yourself having to replace a $400 breaker to get the lights burning. You can include remote photocells and timers if you want. If the photocell is on the light itself though, it's part of that contract - at least that's how I'd do it. You might also might exclude non-electrical parts like the glass covers.

You've also got to drive by that lot every night, and check them all, and note the ones that are out so you can fix them the next day. You've got to account for this time in your monthly service price too.

So there are a few items you need to figure out MTBF's on for each job. Timers, Photocells, relays (photocells and timers often trigger relays to control banks of lights, I forget what they call them), ballasts, bulbs ...

Also, with a new contract you've got to assume that there has been a lot of neglect and the components are at the end of their lifespan, and you have to assume that they have been using the cheapest junk they could buy, so calculate MTBF for that.

Also, you've got to realize that it often takes longer to find the problem than to fix it. Don't leave out troubleshooting time when you're calculating how much time per unit you will be spending getting the light burning again. Also, don't leave out time dealing with suppliers. You can't keep everything on the truck, so sometimes a guy will have to make a supply house run and the job will stop over a $10 part.

So now you've got a scope of what's included in the contract so you don't get burned fixing ancillary issues like somebody ran over the pole, external failures, etc. You now have an idea how many bulbs / ballasts / controls you will have to replace in a month for a given number of lights. You're assuming a high failure rate until they have all been changed out for parts that won't break all the time.

Now you know what it's going to cost you in terms of parts and labor. Mark up your parts by a percentage that reflects the hassle of getting them, and the costs of maintaining an inventory.

Then go to the pricing and success thread and figure out how to price your contracts. Don't forget overhead and profit!

Oh, and a side note - I'd charge an hourly for sign problems. There are too many variables to do a monthly contract like some companies do for parking lot lights IMHO.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Or you could just bill per hour, and mark up parts, and then they call you when a light goes out, and you fix it. It's easier for you, but around here afaik larger places like car dealerships don't want to have to deal with having to find out for themselves a light is out, then call a service guy out. A fixed monthly contract works for them. Taco Bell on the other hand has people there at night to report outages.

As for licensing, I'm not sure about your area, but around here a CE is good for that. I think you need a sign qualification to do neon, and hang sign hardware, but you're good to service existing stuff other than neon, which makes sense since the transformers are often 15kV or more. They can pop the heck out of you.


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

And now that you someone has told you about everything involved, and that it would entail more than just changing bulbs.

You will see that you need to be a journeyman electrician and a electrical contractor.

All info you need here.
http://www.electrical.nebraska.gov/



And then think about it, would you hire or get into a contract with someone to change the bulbs if they could not fix a ballast, etc. while they were there.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

That is correct, I did leave out 208 three phase. Just haven't come across it yet. We usually get, maybe, one to two lot light jobs a year --- some contractors specialize in parking lot lighting and signs and have at least one, two or more bucket trucks. We don't, we mainly do the work for existing clients that use us for the lights and other projects. 

I finally ran into street light LED's yesterday after inspecting a city light pole for camera placement in a neighborhood with a recent shooting. 




smalpierre said:


> One voltage he left off is 208 3 phase. We worked on a lot of lighting in commercial buildings, and hotels / light commercial often had 208 because you don't need a separate service to get 120v for your lights / receptacles.
> 
> Metal halide, and high pressure sodium are the predominant types. They vary in wattage, usually from 150 - 1000 watts.
> 
> ...


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