# How to say no to the neighbor



## HandyMaintain (Mar 19, 2006)

Hi everyone, long time lurker here in need of some advice.....

I moved into a new neighborhood recently, and a month later a single mom moves in next door to me. She is nice and friendly, and works very hard. She has heard on the grapevine that I'm a carpenter and 'IT' has started....

She told me last night that she needs 3 deadbolts installed and wants me to help her install them. I wasn't really asked to help, more like politely TOLD I was going to help. I explained that I didn't install mine at my home, at which she completely ignores the hint, and continued to talk about the need for her deadbolts to be installed soon, until my wife quickly cut her off and changed the subject to help me out.

She is now expecting me to install them for her, and I know that she simply can't afford to pay me so how do I get out of this?

I don't want to offend her, and would like to be a good neighbor and help her out, but I know if I do this as a favor she will expect me to do all of her household stuff. My wife already has a two mile long honey-do list for me to tackle. It's killing me as I know this is going to cause animosity one way or another, I just need a way to say no, without making the situation worst.

I think I read a similar post some time ago but couldn't find it using the search feature, so please forgive me if this has been addressed before


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

That's a tough one. I do some work for neighbours, and all are happy to pay. Although I don't charge them that much. $50 an hour, and usually it's just a few hours work on a weekend. It's pocket money more than anything. If it's going to be a pain, I just tell them I not very good at that stuff. They understand my hidden menaing:laughing:

Best bet is to have a look at it. If it's an easy thing, you could do it this one time which will give you a chance to have a conversation with her about how busy you are, and that you have so much work on your own house, that you probably won't be able to do any more stuff for her because your wife will kill you etc... And then offer up some recommendations of people who could help her and distance yourself from working for her.

It's important to keep good relations with neighbours. You have to live with each other. So no need to get into a smack down, crack down.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

tell her what you just told us....I can't work for free and I practice on my own projects. Be blunt, but not rude. You never know she may have the money to pay you in her sock drawer


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

Single moms get used to asking for help. They can't make it any other way. It's really a hard life, and I feel for women (and men) in this situation. Try to imagine how your wife would cope if you got hit by a bus. How would you want neighbors to treat her?

But that doesn't obligate you to work for free, and she knows this. If you say no, she'll either find the money or she'll find someone else to do it for free. Or, you could do it free this one time and explain to her that future projects will cost $xx per hour. It's really up to you how to handle this. 

Personally, I know how to install a deadbolt, but I had to learn. Maybe offer to loan her the tools? This is one of those cases where that 1-2-3 book from Home Depot can do a world of wonder.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Get yourself a fake cast and wear when ever the neighbor is present and use it as an excuse not to do the work.


.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Does she look like this or this?


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

That girl is a user. Single moms get used to being users. It's a lifestyle they've developed, and it's disrespectful to those they attempt to use. I don't feel a bit bad about even ticking off users like that. I can give as good as I get, and if they want to "tell" me what I'm going to do, I have no problem telling them what they can do.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Without sounding coarse or ugly.........

The measure of a Man is found in his ability to say No.


http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/tillman6.html

http://www.getmoredone.com/tips6.html

http://www.onlineorganizing.com/ExpertAdviceToolboxTips.asp?tipsheet=16

 
Most persons have trouble with the word "No" because they are afraid of rejection.


I COMPLETELY agree that "Single Mothers" often tend to be users. Do not allow yourself to become a mark. Once you do, you may as well have married the user!


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

I had a single mom neighbor once who often needed help with things. She worked as an auto detailer. I helped her out occasion and in return she washed my truck for me-which she offered up front as payment when asking for help. I also have an elderly neighbor whose husband has passed on. i usually help her out with somethings. Usually about once a month for two or three hours. She didn't ask for help initially. I seen her struggling with some plants in the yard and offered to help. She disappeared while I was working, and I thought "Great-I'll be doing this forever", but the she came out with sandwiches and iced tea, which has become the standard when i help her now, and now she's alway sending over homemade cookies and bread. It's the though/effort that counts. I know they don't have money, but they give/do what they can to show their appreciation and that works for me.

Maybe you could mention to your neighbor that your wife could use a hand around the house occasionally?


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Do not allow yourself to become a mark.


Yes, BUT... there's a difference between being a "mark" and being compassionate.

Come on, you guys. There's a difference between someone asking for help because they're a user and someone asking for help because they're stretched as far as they can stretch, whether for resources or ability. I don't know which one this woman is, none of us do, with the possible exception of the OP.


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

And maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it seems to me that alot of you are down on single moms. Users come in every shape and form. Single moms are at a disadvantage and most times become "users" out of necessity. My mom was a single mom raising three kids with no help. I worked when I was 13 giving my checks to her and she worked two and three jobs at times to make sure we had what we needed, and we still had to rely on help from others to get by from time to time, and there were several occasions where she had neither the money nor the time to give something in return. But I did a lot of odd jobs for neighbors and family to at least give something back when I could.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

Tell her you only work for people you don't like. 

"Customers" like that will bleed you dry.

Mark


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

:thumbup:


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

if she cant handle hearing no, thats her problem, she already sounds like a rude, ignorant b1tch. you might want to figure out why it is so hard for you to maintain boundries.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Susan Betz said:


> Yes, BUT... there's a difference between being a "mark" and being compassionate.
> 
> Come on, you guys. There's a difference between someone asking for help because they're a user and someone asking for help because they're stretched as far as they can stretch, whether for resources or ability. I don't know which one this woman is, none of us do, with the possible exception of the OP.


I do agree completely Mrs. Betz, but the OP did state that she has thrust herself upon his burden. Awfully manipulative and cunning.

"She told me last night that she needs 3 deadbolts installed and wants me to help her install them. I wasn't really asked to help, more like politely TOLD I was going to help. I explained that I didn't install mine at my home, at which she completely ignores the hint, and continued to talk about the need for her deadbolts to be installed soon, until my wife quickly cut her off and changed the subject to help me out."


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Susan Betz said:


> Yes, BUT... there's a difference between being a "mark" and being compassionate.
> 
> Come on, you guys. There's a difference between someone asking for help because they're a user and someone asking for help because they're stretched as far as they can stretch, whether for resources or ability. I don't know which one this woman is, none of us do, with the possible exception of the OP.


 
one more thing, the way she seemed to push the point, and assume he would help her, its the way you present yourself. i often help people out with my skills, if they dont expect it from me.


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

MALCO.New.York said:


> I do agree completely Mrs. Betz, but the OP did state that she has thrust herself upon his burden. Awfully manipulative and cunning.
> 
> "She told me last night that she needs 3 deadbolts installed and wants me to help her install them. I wasn't really asked to help, more like politely TOLD I was going to help. I explained that I didn't install mine at my home, at which she completely ignores the hint, and continued to talk about the need for her deadbolts to be installed soon, until my wife quickly cut her off and changed the subject to help me out."


This may be how she learned how to outrun the inevitable "no". Did she behave correctly? Probably not, but I'll bet that method has worked for her in the past. 

I'm not making excuses for her. I don't think that "no" in an inappropriate response to her demands - but this is a personal issue. If you take a look at my first response, I offered a few ways to say "no". Personally, I like the offer to loan her the tools. It's the "teach a man to fish" idea. If she has a book and can teach herself to install deadbolts, then she won't need to ask when her sink starts to drip and she needs to replace a washer. Helping her be less helpless is a great gift.


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## Handyman Jim (Apr 24, 2008)

I also tend to help people who do not push the point. Once my Mom asked me to install a deadbolt for the nuns ,that she knew from church. Several mostly elderly nuns lived in a convent across the parking lot from the church building and there had been some break-ins in the neighborhood.

I used a heavy duty deadbolt with 3" screws in all four of the holes in the strike plate.About 2 months later the local paper had something like this in the "crime log" section. Attempted break-in St. Agnes convent. Suspect was denied entry due to deadbolt lock on door.

http://www.handymanjimnoonan.com


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

ChainsawCharlie said:


> And maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it seems to me that alot of you are down on single moms.


Yes, you are reading these guys wrong.

Personally, I have no time for users and takers. Being a single mom is no excuse. 

When I see a single mom being a user, I have to wonder how much her character flaws have to do with the fact that she is a single mom. Of course, I would never allow myself to make that judgment. It's just something I wonder about.

I refuse to facilitate, encourage, empower, and enable users and takers. Single mom or not. 

I will even refuse to help a user/taker who actually does need help. Why? Because I can only reach so far. Someone is not going to get helped. Why should a person who is not a user/taker and needs help be turned away and then a user/taker who needs help receive that help? 

When a user/taker needs help and is the last person who needs help, then I will help them. But as long as non-user/takers are around needing help, the user/takers go to the bottom of the list.

None of this has anything to do with whether they are a single mom. I have some single moms among my friends who I go out of my way to help at every opportunity.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Susan Betz said:


> Personally, I like the offer to loan her the tools. It's the "teach a man to fish" idea. If she has a book and can teach herself to install deadbolts, then she won't need to ask when her sink starts to drip and she needs to replace a washer. Helping her be less helpless is a great gift.


AWESOME philosophy.

Only one flaw in the execution. A professional's tools are almost sacred. It is disrespectful to even suggest he loan them out. (I keep some beater, cheapos to loan out to people who need them.)


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

MALCO.New.York said:


> I do agree completely Mrs. Betz, but the OP did state that she has thrust herself upon his burden. Awfully manipulative and cunning.
> 
> "She told me last night that she needs 3 deadbolts installed and wants me to help her install them. I wasn't really asked to help, more like politely TOLD I was going to help. I explained that I didn't install mine at my home, at which she completely ignores the hint, and continued to talk about the need for her deadbolts to be installed soon, until my wife quickly cut her off and changed the subject to help me out."


This is the key! Someone who is in need and can't pay their way should request help with all gracious humility. I don't mean grovel but certainly with a full understanding that whoever the help is being requested from is not obligated to do anything for you. If you can't pay then you should by all means offer what you are able to offer, the car washing was a great example.

How in the world did we ever get the idea in this country (this is a rhetorical question) that anybody owes us anything. The government owes us law and order and to provide for the common defense, as well as the enforcement and protection of our bill of rights. That's about it. What does your neighbor owe you? Nothing. At the same time it will be a miserable society indeed if we all act like selfish pigs. Charity should always be freely given, and that abundantly, but never extracted or demanded or compelled. As simplistic as it may sound, the Golden Rule is a great place to start.

I live in Birmingham, AL which is not terribly far from New Orleans. When Katrina hit we got a lot of evacuees up our way. My church along with many others immediately went to work to receive the people we knew would be coming. Enough food was brought to feed a small army. We have about a dozen or so portable class rooms used for smaller bible study classes which were quickly converted to barracks style lodging. Now I freely admit that this was not probably as good as even EconoLodge in terms of privacy but everything was clean, good, and *free of charge* to the refugees. It was absolutely shocking the way these people sniffed at and regarded with utter disdain what had been provided for them. Not all of them were that bad of course but I never observed even the simplest expression of gratitude from the great majority of the people I observed. It's not that anybody who was helping needed to be praised for their efforts, they would have done it anyway but you would think that the people being helped would want to make sure that everyone knew how appreciative they were of their efforts. It's just basic manners 101.

If my single mother neighbor demanded in any way that I perform some service for her, however subtlely, she would not receive it. She would receive the terms under which I would help her along with a lecture about how to treat people and if she were able to accept that then we would procede.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Handyman Jim said:


> I also tend to help people who do not push the point. Once my Mom asked me to install a deadbolt for the nuns ,that she knew from church. Several mostly elderly nuns lived in a convent across the parking lot from the church building and there had been some break-ins in the neighborhood.
> 
> I used a heavy duty deadbolt with 3" screws in all four of the holes in the strike plate.About 2 months later the local paper had something like this in the "crime log" section. Attempted break-in St. Agnes convent. Suspect was denied entry due to deadbolt lock on door.
> 
> http://www.handymanjimnoonan.com


Jim,

I think I read that awhile back. Good for you! :notworthy


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## d-rez (May 16, 2007)

I will never work for friends, family, or neighbors!!!! This IS from past experience. I have just told them that while I was slow in the winter and might have helped out, I am slammed now. I guess having the blood sucked out of my by leaches one too many times, I am not such a bleeding heart...


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I agree with Susan on this one, regarding the teaching her to be self dependant.

Be a good neighbor and buy her that 1-2-3 Book, then you and your wife go over there and show her how it is done. 

You do the first one for her to watch.

She helps you with the 2nd one.

The third one gets done all by herself.

She will probably get emotionally rewarded for now knowing how to do a simple task that most of us take for granted.

Then, you let her know how to sign up on the DIY forum to helf her with her independence and self sufficiency. Advise from a Pro for free to a neighbor is just like taking the time on this forum to help other trades people out.

Now, since you stated that you have read a similar post like your situation on this forum before, why don't you post more than one time and share what you know with others on this forum too.

Isn't the fact that this is your first post and asking for advice from your peers similar to this woman asking/requesting your help too? Give back a little of the gifts that you have and you will feel immensely rewarded.

Ed


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Ed the Roofer said:


> I agree with Susan on this one, regarding the teaching her to be self dependant.
> 
> Be a good neighbor and buy her that 1-2-3 Book, then you and your wife go over there and show her how it is done.
> 
> ...


The best post on here yet. You rock sir!


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

smellslike$tome said:


> This is the key! Someone who is in need and can't pay their way should request help with all gracious humility. I don't mean grovel but certainly with a full understanding that whoever the help is being requested from is not obligated to do anything for you. If you can't pay then you should by all means offer what you are able to offer, the car washing was a great example.
> 
> How in the world did we ever get the idea in this country (this is a rhetorical question) that anybody owes us anything. The government owes us law and order and to provide for the common defense, as well as the enforcement and protection of our bill of rights. That's about it. What does your neighbor owe you? Nothing. At the same time it will be a miserable society indeed if we all act like selfish pigs. Charity should always be freely given, and that abundantly, but never extracted or demanded or compelled. As simplistic as it may sound, the Golden Rule is a great place to start.
> 
> ...


Another awesome post. I quoted it just because it needs to be repeated.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Me and my wife helped out with the Katrina tranplanted people who were brought to the mostly abandoned Elgin, IL Mental Health Center. 

They had already been provided many of the basic necessities and toiletries for being somewhat comfortable, but no one thought about the other things.

Deoderant, cheap perfume, cigarrettes, etc..., I can't even remember all the other things.

Well, I talked with the manager of the local Wal-Mart and told him that I was donating the funds to help these people out in a small way, and got all of the items I purchases available at an unmarked discount price. I also talked to the manager of the local Speedway Gas Station and got them to sell me to cases of cigarettes at the 2 for 1 price special they sometimes run. I got one case of Kools and one case of Marlboros for these people.

No, I did not get a direct thank you from anyone of the displaced people, but I did feel good about myself and all of the hours that my wife and I volunteered at the facility to help these people out and give them directions to places to look for housing and employment. Sometimes, the best thing we could do for them, was to just be there for them to talk to. I couldn't, for a minute, imagine being in their shoes and feel so unfortunate, that I had to do something, even though I am not roling in dough, I was much better off than any of them.

I did receive a letter from the Governor of Illinois and from the Elgin State Mental Health facility, thanking all of the volunteers for their assistance and that our friendliness was appreciated so much by the people who had their lives disrupted, that about 70% of them decided to maintain local residency here instead of trying to find a new life elsewhere.

When you do something for someone else, it is you that receives the largest reward, if your heart is in the right place. I was truly rewarded and wish I could have done more.

Ed


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Move to a new neighborhood, make sure there are no single moms near the new house.

Wear a disguise and enter and leave your house through a back window, park your car/truck a block over.

Could just tell her no, or you could just do it gratis*, having the woman pay for the material. You'll be rewarded later, or so I've been told.



*especially if she looks like the woman in the top picture in Finley's post

Note to Finley: Don't be editing the location of those pictures.

.


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

Ed the Roofer said:


> When you do something for someone else, it is you that receives the largest reward, if your heart is in the right place. I was truly rewarded and wish I could have done more.
> 
> Ed


Very well said. And I really like your "show her, have her help, have her do it herself" method on the locks. That's good teaching, and lessons taught that way stick.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Susan Betz said:


> Very well said. And I really like your "show her, have her help, have her do it herself" method on the locks. That's good teaching, and lessons taught that way stick.


Thank you Susan.

That is the exact method I use to train anyone in the roofing and the office work that needs to be done.

Then, when they do the one task by themselves, which at first glance, looked so easy for me to do, and they screw it up, I point out what they were doing wrong, after they get done and have them do it again, so they learn from their own mistakes. It sticks with them much longer if they feel they are in charge of learning it themselves that way.

Ed


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Me and my wife helped out with the Katrina tranplanted people who were brought to the mostly abandoned Elgin, IL Mental Health Center.
> 
> They had already been provided many of the basic necessities and toiletries for being somewhat comfortable, but no one thought about the other things.
> 
> ...


I agree with you Ed and I hope no one misunderstands me. It's not that I feel slighted necessarily about the Katrina thing. As I said before, I and everyone else who helped would have helped regardless of the response. Expressing gratitude makes a person's life better. It's really more for their benefit than mine. I do not require a lot of praise from men. I know when I've done well and I know when I have not done well. I couldn't imagine not telling people "thank you" for the little daily helps that come my way. The world is not here to serve me. People who are thankless are miserable people. They are never satisfied with anything. They complain incessantly and are very unpleasant to be around. Knowing how to be thankful is a necessary part of being a well rounded and happy human being. The more thankful you are the more thankful you become. You begin to notice more and more things to be thankful about both large and small. It forces you to realize that you are not the boss of everything and if you are able to take the next step it will lead you to understand that the Creator of everything (and yes I'm refering to Almighty God in case anyone missed it) provides you daily with the things you need. This realization can remove enormous stress from your life if you learn to rest in it.

Expressing gratitude is primarily for the giver's benefit not the person receiving the thanks. However gratitude is almost always appreciated and when expressed motivates the helper to help even more as they are able. Gratitude is one of the oils of society. When it is present things just go much more smoothly. It short circuits resentment and selfishness and makes us a happier people.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Fact is, she doesn't "need" deadbolts. It's probably a long series of bad life's decisions that have caused her to be a poor single mom that has to live in a place that doesn't have deadbolts already. She should be thankful she has a place to live at all. God bless America.


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## HandyMaintain (Mar 19, 2006)

Oh boy did I open a can of worms with this one.....
Thanks to all the posters for the moral support and ideas of how to deal with my situation, genuinely appreciated....
OK I think I'm going to give it the old no work for friends, family and neighbors excuse.
I hate being put in a position like this but Malco is right, time to be a man and set those boundaries early on. I only mentioned she was a single mom to give you an insight to the fact that there is no husband on the scene to do all the 'man stuff'

If I was to help I believe the feeling of being rewarded for my generosity would be greatly overshadowed by my resentment for allowing myself to be knowingly used, and doing so would only open the floodgates for more demands of help, it's just the feeling I get from this neighbor.

I have no problem helping people out and I will naturally go out of my way to be a good person, I just hate being told what to do by people who expect me to do things, just ASK for help and I will do almost anything. I have no problem telling customers 'no' if needed, I have just never been put on the spot about work before by a neighbor I hope(d) to have a good relationship with.

Mike Finley: Photo 1, no problem would be pleased to help her out. Photo 2, maybe on a jagermeister night. :whistling

Ed, refost24 Some very good points but, with respect, the similarities between my neighbor and I are somewhat limited. I have requested voluntary and optional advice, not demanded it. After getting over the hurdle of the 'first post apprehension' I will certainly reply to other members posts if I feel I can positively help out another member with my knowledge/experience.

22rifle, The tool thing is a good point I never thought of, my tools earn me money, they are what helps keep a roof over my head so I really wouldn't want to lend them to a HO.

Genecarp, "I often help people out with my skills, if they dont expect it from me" now thats my way of thinking and this is what I normally do.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

HandyMaintain said:


> Mike Finley: Photo 1, no problem would be pleased to help her out. Photo 2, maybe on a jagermeister night. :whistling.


So we can guess that she doesn't look like photo number 1 or else from what you just said you wouldn't be asking this question or having this "moral" delema. :laughing:

Well then since she isn't like photo #1, then the only answer is sorry, I'm busy. :w00t:

That was easy.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

I would do it for free if she asked me. I wouldn't even give it a second thought. Also, if she tried to pay me I would refuse, but I would say that if I was ever in a pinch and needed her to look after my boys for a couple hrs, I would accept that as payment.


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

I think we see this behavior all the time on this forum where a person has thirty post, in which all his threads asking for help but never gives in return. The OP is the perfect example of not helping a neighbor, literally.


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## hastingselectri (May 11, 2008)

I would be happy to have my wife take a look and give you an estimate. She estimates most of my local work. Give your wife 10% for the help. Present a proposal with clear payment terms and see where it takes you.

James


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

hastingselectri said:


> I would be happy to have my wife take a look and give you an estimate. She estimates most of my local work. Give your wife 10% for the help. Present a proposal with clear payment terms and see where it takes you.
> 
> James


Actually, yeah, I would ask for help from the wife.

Women often see *exactly* what is going on. They are generally much more in tune than their husbands, especially regarding other women. Sorry guys, that's how it is. Is the woman making a move on her husband, is she a hopeless loser -- wife will tell you in short order. 

It's not always the case. My husband is extremely sensitive and can often call the shots before I hear them fired. And women love him - it's a good thing I'm not the jealous type. But if there's ambiguity, he talks to me. I can spot hidden meanings and unspoken concerns.


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## HandyMaintain (Mar 19, 2006)

OK here goes... The first piece of advice given back by the OP of this thread.... Don't judge a person by their first post, they may have a lot more on offer (ok maybe not true but lets hope) 

Brockster: I replied to Ed the Roofers comment of, quote "..._why don't you post more than one time and share what you know with others on this forum too_" with, "_I will certainly reply to other members posts if I feel I can positively help out another member with my knowledge/experience_" which I meant, and still do.

I feel bewildered if my post has in some way offended you in such a way for you to still label me as a new user with only questions and no interest in giving answers in return, or maybe you just didn't read my second post, I really don't know, but I thought the above paragraph made my intentions pretty clear. Eds well-put response made me think 'hell, he's right, why the hell am I not posting answers here, nows the time to share my meager knowledge ' your response has me thinking 'is this the hassle I can expect?'  sometimes a question can be an easy way to become involved in a group, which leads on to further involvement including, dare I say it..._posting an answer_ :shifty:

Again, Thanks to everyone with suggestions, I truly appreciate the help, sometimes 32 heads are better than one, and hopefully one day I may be able to offer advice to you, as long as you don't move in next door to me !! :laughing:


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

It all comes down to this. Selfishness. She asked in the manner that she did because she needs something and knows not how to ask properly. That is her parents and Societys fault.

The nay sayers, I am one, say no because we are being selfish in the valuation of our time and what we EXPECT in return for a "Good Deed Done".

If we lived in the World that it once was, she would not have to ask and we would have already offered. She would have baked a pie for a thank you!

The unfortunate fact is that we no longer live in such a World. We are literally forced to make decisions that are based on self preservation and ego.

That is just the way things are. Sadly so.


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