# Cabinet finishes.



## carzie (May 21, 2013)

I do a lot of cabinet finish work, sometimes new raw wood and sometimes previously finished cabinets, more so the latter. 

My biggest problem right now is finding a product that when is used in a dark color (ie chocolate brown) does not mark easily. I'm currently using BM Advance mainly because it brushes out nice, the spray finish is very nice also,but I need something that is brushable for the on site work. 

I would like to stay away from catalyzed products if possible and solvent based products are out. I've heard good things about the SW lines but don't have any experience with them. Suggestions?

While we're on the topic of SW products I have another question. As I said I've been using the BM Advance as a finish, for the primer, both raw wood and previously coated I've been using BIN. I use it for various reasons, dry time, stain blocking, sanding and it will stick to any finish I've come across. 

Does the SW make a similar product that falls in the category of a primer/sealer? Thanks all.


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## Calldjr (Nov 4, 2015)

Sherwin Williams Arborcoat is a good semi transparent, awesome solid. And just stick with BiN, I'm actually thinking about trying Zessners "Bullseye" 123, because BiN is not meant for a full coat primer, just spot priming, supposedly bullseye is, And it's water ++


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

I've used the 123 once, not on cabinets but enough to know it's a bit*ch to sand on raw wood and doesn't block stains unless you hit it twice. I think the spot priming you're referring to is for exterior work with BIN


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

SW Kem Aqua + is a very nice water based finish.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

This is SW's shellac primer;

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/white-pigmented-shellac-primer/

Pro Classic would be the closest thing in the SW line to Advance.

I HVLP spray on site. For this I use KA+. If I can't get a color I need in KA White, I'll spray Pro Classic then top coat it with KA+ in the sheen I need.

Wait, you're a painter, we're supposed to be asking you these questions:whistling:laughing::jester:

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> SW Kem Aqua + is a very nice water based finish.


Water bourne........

Tom


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

tjbnwi said:


> Water bourne........
> 
> Tom


Sorry, I was in a bit of a hurry. You're right, as usual...


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

On raw wood, I have been using the KA+ surfacer and the Sherwood primer for CV. They dry very quickly and hard; they're a little bit like high body auto primers, and leave an easily sanded finish that (if you want) completely conceals any wood grain or other minor imperfections. The vinyl sealers (I've been using the Mohawk) do the same for clear CV.

I realize that KA+ and most (or maybe all) CV's can be used as self-sealers, but my experience with the dedicated surfacers/sealers has been very good.


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

I have used the SW shellac, didn't like it, I found it thinner then the BIN and for same price I was basically getting less. 

I use an hvlp turbine set up and do have a second turbine and exhaust fan so spraying on site would be possible. However I would have to plastic and tape from the edge tape in as I've never gone right inside. If I can find a product similar to the Advance in leveling characteristics I would rather go that way.

I've used some water borne lacquers that hardener can be added to, is this possible with the KA+?

I will move past the painter comment without rebuttal:whistling as I'm on a constant learning curve and appreciate info from all trades:thumbup:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

KA+ does not need a hardener, it is a very durable finish. 

As Bob mentioned, there a sufacers and sanding sealers for the line. 

I like SW Wall and Wood primer, best sanding primer I've ever seen.

Tom


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## stelzerpainting (Feb 27, 2014)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> SW Kem Aqua + is a very nice water based finish.


Most definitely. Sprays out awesome, Just not brushable though.


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## stelzerpainting (Feb 27, 2014)

*PPG Breakthrough*



carzie said:


> I do a lot of cabinet finish work, sometimes new raw wood and sometimes previously finished cabinets, more so the latter.
> 
> My biggest problem right now is finding a product that when is used in a dark color (ie chocolate brown) does not mark easily. I'm currently using BM Advance mainly because it brushes out nice, the spray finish is very nice also,but I need something that is brushable for the on site work.
> 
> ...


Hey Carzie, if you haven't already, you might wanna look into PPG Breakthrough. It's a pretty amazing product, and works well for cabs. Probably one of the best cabinet threads I've ever read is right here
http://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377-post627817/#post627817

The OP is a huge Breakthrough fan, and does anywhere from 2-3 kitchen cab sets just about every single week. It'll answer a lot of questions.


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## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

Yeah, check out Breakthrough for sure. I've been using it a lot lately for cabinets. 

I love the look of Advance on cabinets, hard to beat the application (hand) qualities of it as well. But the extended re coat and cure times make it impractical. And it's not as durable as they make it out to be IMO. 

Breakthrough has excellent leveling qualities, it just takes some adjustments of technique. The open time is quite short compared to Advance, and it's easy to overwork it. Took me a while to get the hang of it, but definitely worth the effort. 

Here's part of a set I finished yesterday. The desk in the middle is done in Breakthrough. Desk and frames done on site, doors and drawers sprayed in shop. 










Breakthrough has outstanding early blocking resistance, and cures in 7 days. Very tough stuff.


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## stelzerpainting (Feb 27, 2014)

BIGGEST CRITICISMS I HAVE FOR BREAKTHROUGH:

-It doesn't come in semi-gloss, which was a deal-breaker for me at first, since most of my customers choose semi. This can be solved by either top-coating with a clear SG, or boxing gloss & satin, which gives you a sheen slightly less than SG when mixed 50/50, so adjust accordingly. 

-As Josh stated, Breakthrough has a learning curve I would equate to that of BM's Advance, but once you dial it in, it's hard to beat. I'm not equating the 2 products, just the amount of time & practice needed for both before a desirable, repeatable finish can be achieved.

-For cabinetry, best applied with a finer finishing system than traditional airless, so HVLP or AAA is what I'd use. The airless with FF Tips will work just fine when spraying stand-alone cab doors or drawers, but not when spraying cab boxes IMO.


THINGS I LIKE MOST ABOUT BREAKTHROUGH:

-It's a water-borne acrylic!

-Quick-dry, quick re-coat, early blocking.

-Tenacious adhesion. Can be applied directly over previously stained, cleared, or painted surfaces, (this saves a lot of time on most cabinet jobs I do, since they are usually previously stained and wanted to have them painted).

-Can be applied to a sorts of substrates, from wood, to vinyl, laminates, concrete, etc.

-Unlike WB Pre-Cats or CV"s, Breakthrough can be brushed & rolled.


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

Thanks guys, I definitely look into it. The dry time for the Advance is a bit of an issue. Maybe not so much on the lighter colors but just sprayed Deep Caviar about 5 hours ago and still very sticky. Brush-able is what I need I just hope they can match BM colors well because 90% of my clients pick from BM.

How is it to sand?


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## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

carzie said:


> How is it to sand?



Best sanding acrylic I've ever seen. Sands to powder after a couple hour dry.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Breakthrough has been around since sometime in the 80's. I don't remember the company but they were bought out by PPG. Just never got the marketing and it may have been reformulated over the years.


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