# When the power goes out ...



## Mikebuild (Sep 9, 2015)

I've had gen-trans before and had separate panels with disconnects, for use when the power goes out and we need to run a generator. But had a thought the other day ... what is the downside to this idea: Turn the main *off* and back feed the panel via the 50amp RV receptacle right outside/near the panel. As long as the main remains off, the gen will not be able to back feed the grid and as long as we stay within the gen's capacity as far as load ... what's the downside? (other than not knowing when the power comes back on, because the main is off).

And/or ... what's the most economical way to configure back up power for a sfr, using a portable gen?


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## pappagor (Jan 29, 2008)

the power company here would cut you off the grid if they know or see a back feed like that. you would never pass inspection.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Mikebuild said:


> I've had gen-trans before and had separate panels with disconnects, for use when the power goes out and we need to run a generator. But had a thought the other day ... what is the downside to this idea: Turn the main *off* and back feed the panel via the 50amp RV receptacle right outside/near the panel. As long as the main remains off, the gen will not be able to back feed the grid and as long as we stay within the gen's capacity as far as load ... what's the downside? (other than not knowing when the power comes back on, because the main is off).
> 
> And/or ... what's the most economical way to configure back up power for a sfr, using a portable gen?


It's a half-assed way to do it, and unsafe without a proper disconnect.

Yet its what I do.

"Do as I say, not as I do"


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Totally against Code, totally insane and totally stupid idea.

When the power goes out and the line crews are out fixing it, if they hear a genny they are going to investigate. If they do not see a proper transfer switch, they'll disconnect you at the pole and you're on your own until said xfer switch has been installed and inspected by both the POCO _and_ AHJ.

So, your totally cheap-azz idea now becomes totally outside your budget as you probably won't have the funds to install all this on such short notice.

The other downside is the possibility that your main does not actually open the service and you end up back-feeding the utility. Now someone on the line crew gets hurt. Lawyers love this chit as it makes them just that much richer.

Another downside: You forget to turn off the main, hook up your generator and it end up fried because of the load impressed on it by the neighborhood utility needs. Ooops. No power today, and gotta buy a new genny.


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## Mikebuild (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks Smalltownguy ... what I thought too. As long as you turn the main off, no problems or drama.


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## Brad Gunn (Aug 18, 2015)

Mikebuild said:


> Thanks Smalltownguy ... what I thought too. As long as you turn the main off, no problems or drama.


Wow!

I once backed up the freeway off ramp with no problem at all.:laughing:

I once worked on a 8 in 12 without tying off - wait, that one was a problem.:sad:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Mikebuild said:


> Thanks Smalltownguy ... what I thought too. As long as you turn the main off, no problems or drama.


So you assume.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So you assume.


Waited until he got the answer he wanted.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Totally against Code, totally insane and totally stupid idea.


yup


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## WyrTwister (Jul 19, 2013)

Also , if he mounts the RV outside & it is a female , then the cord form the generator must terminate with a male . The blades of which are hot , any time the generator is energizing the cord .

As has been pointed out , his idea / method is exceedingly bad . And probably more common than you would think . :-(

God bless
Wyr


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Mikebuild said:


> I've had gen-trans before and had separate panels with disconnects, for use when the power goes out and we need to run a generator. But had a thought the other day ... what is the downside to this idea: Turn the main *off* and back feed the panel via the 50amp RV receptacle right outside/near the panel. As long as the main remains off, the gen will not be able to back feed the grid and as long as we stay within the gen's capacity as far as load ... what's the downside? (other than not knowing when the power comes back on, because the main is off).
> 
> And/or ... what's the most economical way to configure back up power for a sfr, using a portable gen?


There is a company that makes a kit for this exact purpose.

I forget the name...


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

There are kits available to install on your existing panel cover. You'll need an additional 2 pole breaker in the panel. The kit turns your main and the 2 pole breaker into a transfer switch. 

They're not available for all makes of panels but is worth looking into.

Hook a simple 50a or 30a power inlet to the 2 pole breaker.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> There are kits available to install on your existing panel cover.


One source:

http://www.interlockkit.com/


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## Mikebuild (Sep 9, 2015)

Tinstaafl said:


> One source:
> 
> http://www.interlockkit.com/




Looks like the way to go ... grassi.


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## Jimmer (Sep 12, 2007)

I thought the existing breaker for the RV slot gave you protection.

Don't do this unless you lock out the Mains switch!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jimmer said:


> I thought the existing breaker for the RV slot gave you protection.
> 
> Don't do this unless you lock out the Mains switch!


The problem is making 100% sure the utility cannot be backfed from the generator. Line crews take a very dim view of getting shocked because someone was a cheap-azz and didn't install their back-up system correctly.


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## Ohmy (Sep 10, 2009)

I have seen this done too many times...often with the dryer outlet. One customer actually had their generator blow up with then power was restored (he is lucky he did not fry the line crew). 

Its not that hard to make a legal setup with an interlock kit and power inlet. You can even put the inlet right under the panel and get a long cord to run outside to the generator. 

Most breaker manufactures sell interlock kits for their current load centers for $20 - $50 bucks. The interlock kit website mentioned above is like $150.


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## WyrTwister (Jul 19, 2013)

If you are going to cord connect the generator , use a " normal " male on the generator end of the cord . On the opposite end of the cord , a " normal " female . 

Use a flanged male outlet for that female to plug into .For example ;

https://www.google.com/search?q=Franged+male&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=Franged+male+outlet

Let that be installed in an appropriate box with an appropriate cover .

That flanged male feeds the emergency / generator circuit breaker ( with an interlock kit ) . 

Or , just hard wire that end of the cord into the loadcenter with the interlock kit and CB's .

God bless
Wyr


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

I have the interlock kit I my house. It's great. With all the led bulbs I can leave all the light breakers on with no problem. Wall oven gets turned off, and for some reason the generator struggles with the sewer pump if anything else is on. It's got a pretty serious draw, but is only on a 20 amp breaker. I run the pump by hand as soon as I start genny and that is usually good for awhile. Only running a eu6500.


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## WyrTwister (Jul 19, 2013)

Might consider a soft start starter on the serer pump ?

God bless
Wyr


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