# Insulated Zip System vs. OSB+foam board and Tyvek



## millardan6 (Feb 8, 2017)

Has anyone done any cost comparisons including labor on the insulated zip system panels vs a traditional osb sheathing with foam board and tyvek. I know the zip panels are very expensive but I want to know how they compare to the labor involved with the house wrap. I need 2 inches so that it matches up with my ICF forms. Thanks for your time
-Millard Contracting Services


----------



## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

millardan6 said:


> Has anyone done any cost comparisons including labor on the insulated zip system panels vs a traditional osb sheathing with foam board and tyvek. I know the zip panels are very expensive but I want to know how they compare to the labor involved with the house wrap. I need 2 inches so that it matches up with my ICF forms. Thanks for your time
> -Millard Contracting Services


The house we just framed was the first time we've used the Zip System R Sheathing. We've been using Zip System on walls (w/out foam) since 2009.

What we found is that instaling the R Sheathing (1" foam w/ 1/2" Zip) required zero extra labor. We installed it the same as any structural sheathing, taped the seams and lifted.

Only thing I had to do differently was watch how I layed out studs at corners to make sure the foam overlapped properly.


----------



## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Don't have time to give a good reply now. Zip system is much better quality. Air infiltration is the key.

I'll try to post tomorrow

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

I hate the zip system. I only use it when forced.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TBM said:


> I hate the zip system. I only use it when forced.


Why?


----------



## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

EricBrancard said:


> Why?


My question too.

I've been using Zip since 2009 and absolutely love it. But I'm interested in the answer above too.


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

I could go on all day on why. #1 Near impossible to get it warranty acceptable. #2 Takes to long to tape. I can run a bead of silicone around the edge of osb faster(which does the same thing as the tape) then it takes to tape. #3 90% of the sheets once cut dont stay square. #4 Get that green covering as a sliver instant infection. And its always able to get into you eyes when cutting even with safety glasses. 
It's a bs product all of its " advantages" are just a sells gimmick and can be achieved with traditional building materials.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TBM said:


> I could go on all day on why. #1 Near impossible to get it warranty acceptable. #2 Takes to long to tape. I can run a bead of silicone around the edge of osb faster(which does the same thing as the tape) then it takes to tape. #3 90% of the sheets once cut dont stay square. #4 Get that green covering as a sliver instant infection. And its always able to get into you eyes when cutting even with safety glasses.
> It's a bs product all of its " advantages" are just a sells gimmick and can be achieved with traditional building materials.


I guess I haven't found any of those to be true since I started using it. In fact, it's always my first choice.


----------



## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

TBM said:


> I could go on all day on why. #1 Near impossible to get it warranty acceptable. #2 Takes to long to tape. I can run a bead of silicone around the edge of osb faster(which does the same thing as the tape) then it takes to tape. #3 90% of the sheets once cut dont stay square. #4 Get that green covering as a sliver instant infection. And its always able to get into you eyes when cutting even with safety glasses.
> It's a bs product all of its " advantages" are just a sells gimmick and can be achieved with traditional building materials.


Thanks for replying. I like to hear others experience with newish products.


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

EricBrancard said:


> I guess I haven't found any of those to be true since I started using it. In fact, it's always my first choice.


Let me ask you this. When you get zip panels delivered do you use a lift to get it off the delivery truck? If not warranty void.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TBM said:


> Let me ask you this. When you get zip panels delivered do you use a lift to get it off the delivery truck? If not warranty void.



Just to clarify, you're saying that the warranty is void is a lift is NOT used to remove the material from the truck?


----------



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

even if..try to get a warranty using paper..


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

Yes. Read the "Excluded Conditions" in the warranty. Damage during transit. Also if you read the installation instructions on how they are supposed to be stored you will pull your hair out. Stupid things like how the tape has to be applied with a roller or a tape gun or warranty void. No wrinkles in the tape either. Come on who has time to tape a seam and go back with a roller to assure proper adhesion? For a product that cost more and has a much fussier installation procedure when all you need to do is caulk the seams of osb and wrap it to achieve the same "advantages" of the Zip panel. No thanks.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Timuhler said:


> My question too.
> 
> I've been using Zip since 2009 and absolutely love it. But I'm interested in the answer above too.


This is you, right?

http://www.huberwood.com/assets/user/media/ZIP-JLC-Article-Feb-2011.pdf

i read, reread, then read s'mores & talked to my framer long time to make sure he could do it by the book.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TBM said:


> Yes. Read the "Excluded Conditions" in the warranty. Damage during transit. Also if you read the installation instructions on how they are supposed to be stored you will pull your hair out. Stupid things like how the tape has to be applied with a roller or a tape gun or warranty void. No wrinkles in the tape either. Come on who has time to tape a seam and go back with a roller to assure proper adhesion? For a product that cost more and has a much fussier installation procedure when all you need to do is caulk the seams of osb and wrap it to achieve the same "advantages" of the Zip panel. No thanks.


Ok. So all my lumberyard's delivery vehicles either have a moffet or boom on them. I couldn't imagine doing it another way. Like having guys unload the trucks a sheet at a time? That's crazy. Usually the stuff for the second floor gets boomed there. 

Storage requirements? Yeah, not a big deal.

Who has the time to tape a seam and go back with a roller? Apparently everyone who understands how to apply a tape with pressure sensitive adhesive correctly and ZIP tape isn't the only one on the market with an acrylic adhesive. Almost as silly as a plumber saying "who has time to prime and glue a PVC pipe?"


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

I'm assuming that in your area you don't need nailing inspections. You can tape on the ground in that situation. And even then it takes to long. Or what do you do when its raining like today and have to wait on the elements to apply tape. I like making money. 
My area the lumber yards only have one or two truck with booms and your a lucky guy if your the one that gets the boom truck. Most they dump and go resulting in damaged sheets.
And something tells me you have no idea the storage requirements. Again warranty voided by the supplier in my situation.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TBM said:


> And something tells me you have no idea the storage requirements. Again warranty voided by the supplier in my situation.


Elevate and tarp. Like I said, not that hard. 

You don't want to use it, cool. But your issues don't necessarily translate to everyone else who uses it. I know that's a foreign concept to the internet, though.


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

EricBrancard said:


> Elevate and tarp. Like I said, not that hard.
> 
> You don't want to use it, cool. But your issues don't necessarily translate to everyone else who uses it. I know that's a foreign concept to the internet, though.


And I wont unless forced like I said. And my issues do translate into everyday issues your just being ignorant. Surfaces need to be free of dust and dirt mud, must be dry, cant be applied in temps below 20 F. The list goes on and on man. Like I said I could go on for days and days. 
Give me one advantage that cant be achieved with traditional material, with less babysitting.


----------



## RichVT (Feb 28, 2009)

It would be nice if the Zip panels were made from Advantech rather than plain crappy OSB with a coating on one side.

Pictures are from a one year old installation.


----------



## Philament (Dec 9, 2014)

RichVT said:


> It would be nice if the Zip panels were made from Advantech rather than plain crappy OSB with a coating on one side.
> 
> Pictures are from a one year old installation.


What's the back story to this one? Looks so catastrophic that I doubt any sheet good would last


----------



## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

SmallTownGuy said:


> This is you, right?
> 
> http://www.huberwood.com/assets/user/media/ZIP-JLC-Article-Feb-2011.pdf
> 
> i read, reread, then read s'mores & talked to my framer long time to make sure he could do it by the book.


yeah I wrote that but that is my coworker Kyle in the photo.

I can say we've dealt with Huber on a couple of warranty issues and they were amazing. We had to replace some panels that warped after install. All they asked us to do was take pictures and measure the panels. We did that, and they paid for the replacement panels, the orginal panels, the tape and all of our labor.


----------



## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

TBM said:


> I'm assuming that in your area you don't need nailing inspections. You can tape on the ground in that situation. And even then it takes to long. Or what do you do when its raining like today and have to wait on the elements to apply tape. I like making money.
> My area the lumber yards only have one or two truck with booms and your a lucky guy if your the one that gets the boom truck. Most they dump and go resulting in damaged sheets.
> And something tells me you have no idea the storage requirements. Again warranty voided by the supplier in my situation.


I'm not here to defend Zip, just relate our experience.

In 3 or 4 different municipalities we tape before lifting walls. The inspectors have no issues with this in our seismic zone because they can see field nailing and can feel the nails beneath the tape. Most of our work taping is done while the wall is flat. 

I have found that the slowest link in framing/sheathing/lifting is the guy nailing. We have him nail all seams so that they can be taped while he does the field nailing. So there is zero extra time into taping because we can't lift the wall anyway. We usually have the seams taped about the time the wall if nailed off.


----------



## RichVT (Feb 28, 2009)

Philament said:


> What's the back story to this one? Looks so catastrophic that I doubt any sheet good would last


Large amount of water was running off of the patio and soaking the beadboard ceiling below (already removed in the picture) and the edge of the sheathing which was left exposed. Second and third pictures are an overview after my repair.

Moral of the story is that you need to protect the edges of this stuff if they will be exposed to moisture like at the bottom of a wall that gets a lot of splash back from a roof with no gutters.


----------



## Matt0034 (Jul 10, 2014)

Ill say that is one difficult area to properly protect from water damage. Probably should have done. Different flashing detail, what idk though.

I'll say I absolutely love huber advantech, it's a proven product through and through. But as far as the zip system, I'm not a fan of it. Never installed it but the idea of taking osb with a vapor barrier and popping holes through it that won't be covered doesn't sound like a good idea. What will happen under a window thats properly flashed? If water gets behind the siding it will deteriorate at all the field nailing locations. Of course the edges are the most critical locations but if water gets to the field nails, swelling of the osb with possible mold growth and strength absolutely gone. Also what about wire and pipe penetrations?, easily areas for air and moisture to get in, I guess unless you grab the silicone and spray foam. How long will he tape adhesive hold?

Me, I'd take an osb with tyvek or typar any day. All windows and doors can be flashed to keep water away from the building components. Air infiltration is minimal when taped. Can cover a large area very quickly. Allows the moisture to escape from the inside. I understand all this comes with proper installation too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

I saw this recently..declined the siding job..:whistling


----------



## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

I'd like to hear from a few other guys about the non-insulated zip system. In the northeast, it hasn't caught on as quick as other areas, possibly due to OSB being as low as $6/sheet. Have yet to work with it but looking forward to starting as on the surface it seems comparable (cost of zip sheets is the same as OSB/ply and housewrap. The install is similar so the tape cost is the extra.


----------



## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

MattK said:


> I'd like to hear from a few other guys about the non-insulated zip system. In the northeast, it hasn't caught on as quick as other areas, possibly due to OSB being as low as $6/sheet. Have yet to work with it but looking forward to starting as on the surface it seems comparable (cost of zip sheets is the same as OSB/ply and housewrap. The install is similar so the tape cost is the extra.


As I stated previously, we have been using Zip System since 2009. Here are the benefits we've found

No additional labor installing housewrap
No fixing housewrap because of other trades
Almost no ladder work beyond siding (increase in safety)
We can sheathe and tape (except corners) before lifting walls
Air barrier. 
Housewraps don't compare with a fully sheathed/taped house
Easier to hit low blower door numbers (we are around 3 ach and are shooting for 2 on the R Sheathed house
Warranty. Huber has been great to deal with on warranty

Regarding cost, we are still finding that OSB+Tyvek = Zip panels. What we then pay for over that is the cost of the tape. But we have found we save that on labor and come out ahead.

I took a class from Joe Lsiburek in Orlando last month and he said the next big step is coated sheathing. It just makes too much sense compared to housewrap. Georgia Pacific is coming out with their own system. 

You can check out our website for more pictures of zip installation.


----------



## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

Regarding subs, I can't count how many times I've seen slices and tears due to razor knives when installing siding or roof shingles. It only takes one and now you've penetrated the water protection. This system removes that careless threat.


----------



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Even more regarding siding subs that have somehow gotten the privilege of installing the house wrap,while I can provide a decent water barrier it's almost impossible for me to make it an air barrier after the fact


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

MattK said:


> Regarding subs, I can't count how many times I've seen slices and tears due to razor knives when installing siding or roof shingles. It only takes one and now you've penetrated the water protection. This system removes that careless threat.


The coating can be scratched and cut through just the same as wrap.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TBM said:


> The coating can be scratched and cut through just the same as wrap.


Not really. There's no where for the water to get behind the coating. With a breached wrap you have a space between the WRB and the sheathing. With the ZIP, a scratch in the face of the panel isn't really going to do anything.


----------



## TBM (Oct 13, 2016)

EricBrancard said:


> Not really. There's no where for the water to get behind the coating. With a breached wrap you have a space between the WRB and the sheathing. With the ZIP, a scratch in the face of the panel isn't really going to do anything.


Look at pics above. You can see the damage water does. As soon as water starts delamination starts.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TBM said:


> Look at pics above. You can see the damage water does. As soon as water starts delamination starts.


The pics above show a very poorly detailed area that would cause issues with any product. I have enough experience with seeing Zip exposure to weather over a period of time to draw my own conclusions.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Let me just add that I'm not endorsing using any sheathing/wrb as a cutting board or saying because ZIP has a built in WRB it's ok to slice it up with a blade.


----------

