# addition about to fall down



## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

Forgot my camera so I will do my best. Putting a big deck around a house and addition. We pulled the old deck down today and the framing(beam) on the corners of the addition have major termite damage. Its a shed roof on three peirs about 16' across. 2x10 beam with floor joist hangered in. the beams that sit over top of the corner piers are non existent and i guess the middle is holding the whole thing up. The damage goes a little past the first joist in on both sides and through both boards of the beam. Any ideas? The entire addition is glass doors and windows.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Pics? Should be a challenging fix with all that glass


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Need pics


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Not sure what you're asking for. Obviously, the right thing to do is whatever it takes to replace anything that's damaged/rotted, particularly in terms of structural soundness. 

If the scope is more than you're comfortable with, call in someone who deals with such things. If it's a budget problem with the HO, you need to get paid for what you've done so far at a minimum.


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> Not sure what you're asking for. Obviously, the right thing to do is whatever it takes to replace anything that's damaged/rotted, particularly in terms of structural soundness.
> 
> If the scope is more than you're comfortable with, call in someone who deals with such things. If it's a budget problem with the HO, you need to get paid for what you've done so far at a minimum.


I replace band boards and sill plates all the time but Im just looking for ideas on how to replace part of a beam thats holding walls and a floor. I know I need more piers but part of it is only a foot off the ground. HO will pay for whatever it takes but Im just looking for any ideas that may help me out otherwise call in an expert.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

You've got to temporarily support the load that is on the beam while the beam is replaced.

If you're not comfortable doing so, it's best to call in someone who is.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

Pics!!!


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

ASIinc. said:


> I replace band boards and sill plates all the time but Im just looking for ideas on how to replace part of a beam thats holding walls and a floor.


As RemodelGA says, you need to rig temp supports while replacing. Tough to offer any meaningful advice without pictures and/or drawings, but there's always a way. :thumbsup:


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Only thing I can come up with,without seeing any pics is
to pour temp piers just outside the structure and get a steel
beam engineered to carry the load till you replace existing.
Have the joists canted over the steel ,far enough away to do your
repairs.
If the existing piers are sufficient,it could save some hard digging.
It depends on how bad the end joist are though.May have to build a
temp wall inside to carry roof/ceiling weight to directly over temp
beam,since all the weight would be on the last few inches of the sub
floor.
Just a thought.


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

Yea pics would help, figures I dont have my camera when I need it. Putting the temp support beam would probably work best I say Its almost impossible to get under and jack plus its on a good grade. I will try to take pics tomorrow of the progress or regress. Got some thinking to do thanks for the input


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)




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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

As the guys said put temp supports and you can replace the columns and the deck... but if you never done this before, hire someone who know what they doing before you be wearing that roof.


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## NHCremodeling (Mar 20, 2010)

Tough without pics, but here goes.

First thing is to remove doors, and if you can do so easily, remove the windows. This will take a lot of the weight off, and protect the glass from cracking if you end up wracking the walls.

Can you expose the bottom of the joists? If you can, go back about a foot or 2 and install a 6x6 supported by bottle jacks (supported on something solid) across all the joists.

Go inside and build a temp wall on top of the 6x6 up to the ceiling joists (or rafters?)

Then replace the beam with a break in the middle. From the outside footing to the middle. That way, only half the outside wall will be floating unsupported at a time. And that shouldn't be a problem if you've removed all the doors and windows. 

It should go without saying you should have a VERY CAREFULLY WORDED CONTRACT to go along with this project. Tell the homeowner up front you are getting combat pay because of the risk. Get at least double your normal rate. This is one of those crappy projects that nobody wants to do. So at least get paid.

A safety meeting with your crew is first order of business. Then a very detailed plan of attack with everybody knowing their part. This doesn't have to be a dangerous project, but it can be if not planned right.

DISCLAIMER: Really, without pictures, it is tough to give advice. What I said above is very general. I would really need to see the structure before telling you to go ahead with that.

In other words, if it falls down on your head, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN!!!!


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

NHCremodeling said:


> This is one of those crappy projects that nobody wants to do.


Speak for yourself. I personally enjoy structural repairs.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I like them too. Gets some cribbing under there first, then begin squaring up and lifting.


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## NHCremodeling (Mar 20, 2010)

RemodelGA said:


> Speak for yourself. I personally enjoy structural repairs.





Tom M said:


> I like them too. Gets some cribbing under there first, then begin squaring up and lifting.


The work itself is pretty basic. The problem is the homeowner. Nobody likes surprises. This guy was hired to build a deck, not rebuild a cheap-ass crappy addition.

Shed roof, pier footings, the only description he left out is that it probably has t-111 siding.

If the guy who owns the house now is the tightwad who had that addition built, money is going to be a problem.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

I ran into this problem once.

It was a porch that they turned into a addition. 

Problem was the footings were cmu blocks 6" deep in a 48" frost zone. The entire thing was sinking.

I sistered up an additional rim joist and carriage bolted it all together. Replaced anything rotten. then the fun began.

I temporarily supported the structured and leveled it up.

I dug new footings 52" deep for good measure and poured new footings. Then used 6x6 pressure treated up to the addition.

It actually was a real fun job.

Came out great.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Disclaimer : I'm not giving advice, I'm just relating a general technique I have used. 

For a single story with shed roof with tight spaces and little room to work I tend to use 4 ton jacks under each joist positioned to be under the inside edge of the wall, if possible with an individual pad under each jack. The piers tend to get in the way, so at the piers I'll either stay within the joist depth of the inside of the wall or use a beam between 2 jacks to bridge this part, and for corners I'll switch to 10 ton jacks. First I'll put blocking about 2' in to keep the joists from rolling. Some soils are going to compact too much to do this very well. The jacks will settle, so height adjustments have to be made periodically until they aren't moving much any more. 

Each situation is different, and the presence of termite damage, some of which may be hidden, is a big red flag to me, especially on the ends of the joists. Bracing has already been covered. You just have to look at your specific situation and decide what techniques are going to work well. Doing each half separately is a good idea, but figure out what will work safely for you.


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

Ok here are some pics maybe I didnt explain it well enough but I think some may have gotten the wrong idea. my bad So today I ran a temp beam underneath it with with 6x6's on each end(outside on footing) and 4x4 supports underneath(on blocks) so I can get the outside beam out the only problem is the whole thing will be sitting on subfloor until I get the new one in hopefully no more than a couple mins. The real problem is supporting the sides and getting those beams out. May have to splice new to old and add a few more piers?


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

That downspout looks like a stove pipe. 
There is a leak there somewhere on those corners.
That is messed up ! There is piers and a concrete wall the joists are sitting on?
They must have added that wall between the piers after they ficured out the corners were rotting out. There is really no sill plate


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

knucklehead said:


> That downspout looks like a stove pipe.
> There is a leak there somewhere on those corners.
> That is messed up ! There is piers and a concrete wall the joists are sitting on?
> They must have added that wall between the piers after they ficured out the corners were rotting out. There is really no sill plate



Its just a wall to hold the concrete backer board that just looks like a foundation the floor joists are teco'd to the beam and surprisingly nothing has sagged at all that I can see. I believe it is actually termite damage atleast on the bad side or a combo of the two


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## CHRenewal (Aug 12, 2012)

If it were me, I would recommend or sell a rip off and build a nice deck where that now sits.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

ASIinc. said:


> Forgot my camera so I will do my best. * Putting a big deck around a house and addition. We pulled the old deck down today* and the framing(beam) on the corners of the addition have major termite damage. Its a shed roof on three peirs about 16' across. 2x10 beam with floor joist hangered in. the beams that sit over top of the corner piers are non existent and i guess the middle is holding the whole thing up. The damage goes a little past the first joist in on both sides and through both boards of the beam. Any ideas? The entire addition is glass doors and windows.





CHRenewal said:


> If it were me, I would recommend or sell a rip off and build a nice deck where that now sits.


:whistling


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

WOW!!!! STOP !!STEP BACK!!GET SOME PRO ADVICE!!!!
What a mess.Is that addition even attached to the house?
Being a brick house,I doubt there's any substantial anchoring
done for the ledgers.
Are you really expecting 4x4posts to hold up two stories full
of glass.


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

oldfrt said:


> WOW!!!! STOP !!STEP BACK!!GET SOME PRO ADVICE!!!!
> What a mess.Is that addition even attached to the house?
> Being a brick house,I doubt there's any substantial anchoring
> done for the ledgers.
> ...


Its just temporary, I have 2 6x6's 3 4x4's and two jacks just until I can get the new beam in and the hangers back on. cant be worse than what it has now.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

oldfrt said:


> WOW!!!! STOP !!STEP BACK!!GET SOME PRO ADVICE!!!!


That's what he's trying to do. :thumbsup:

I'm thinking some temp support at the top plate might be called for.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

I'd think the sliders would have to be removed and 
cross bracing added to keep it from racking?
Doesn't look like a lot of lateral support there.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

I'd agree with removing the sliders. For as minimal effort as it takes to remove and re-install them, it'd be worth getting them out of there.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

RemodelGA said:


> I'd agree with removing the sliders. For as minimal effort as it takes to remove and re-install them, it'd be worth getting them out of there.


 Yea,
Those aluminum sliders always seemed to leak at
the sills.Could be the source of the rot.
Sub floor is probably toasts,too.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

I could fix it.
Is that really termites or water?


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

ASIinc. said:


> Its just a wall to hold the concrete backer board that just looks like a foundation the floor joists are teco'd to the beam and surprisingly nothing has sagged at all that I can see. I believe it is actually termite damage atleast on the bad side or a combo of the two


A wood wall?


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

knucklehead said:


> I could fix it.
> Is that really termites or water?


Many times it's both. Termites like wet wood. So rot leads to termites which leads to more damage. Based on how low that one side looks to the grade, I could see it being termites. However, I don't see mud trails that are associated with termite damage.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

knucklehead said:


> A wood wall?


Yes. Look at the third pic where you can see between the studs. You can see on the left side of the opening where the backer board has been broken off. The bottom plate looks to be below grade. :whistling


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

I dont know whether to cry or laugh


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Agreed; I'm intimately acquainted with termites in my own house, and there's nothing in those pics that I see looking like anything but rot. But we're not there.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

AS,
Was there flashing run under the doors and folded down 
over the rim joist?
Looks like they stopped it shy of the corners and that's
why the beam rotted at those points.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

RemodelGA said:


> Yes. Look at the third pic where you can see between the studs. You can see on the left side of the opening where the backer board has been broken off. The bottom plate looks to be below grade. :whistling


I thought that was a frame for an access whole. Are you sure?


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

Yea I guess the sliders should come out. Hello can of worms.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

knucklehead said:


> I thought that was a frame for an access whole. Are you sure?


Based on the pics, it doesn't look like there was an access door to the crawl space so they had to bust a piece of the cement board off.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

I know why the corners rotted out.


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

I think termites b/c there are hundreds of little channels bored through the wood but I could be wrong. its not consistent with most of the water damage I see. The flashing went under the door and down to the corners but it was mostly disintegrated. The wood around the bottom is just some PT 2x4's that hold the backer board up. Its is bearing no weight and the backer board and wall has since been removed to grant me access underneath.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

ASIinc. said:


> Yea I guess the sliders should come out. Hello *can of worms*.


 Yep,
This is where you can really shine,but not at the cost of
doing it safely.
There may be things that we can't see,or anticipate since some
times,you just have to be there.I don't know your experience level,
but be careful,and take extra precautions.
If you know someone that is comfortable with this mess,hire him
to help you.
It's not about saving HO money at this point,its about doing it
without getting hurt.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

ASIinc. said:


> I think termites b/c there are hundreds of little channels bored through the wood but I could be wrong. its not consistent with most of the water damage I see. The flashing went under the door and down to the corners but it was mostly disintegrated. The wood around the bottom is just some PT 2x4's that hold the backer board up. Its is bearing no weight and the backer board and wall has since been removed to grant me access underneath.


That wall is bearing . It is the only thing holding the room up.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Those piers are sticking out past the corner of your framing, hence the water just sits there on top of the pier and the wood is soaking it up. You are gonna have to prop that thing up somehow and fix the damage. I bet the subfloor is rotten too.


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## NHCremodeling (Mar 20, 2010)

CHRenewal said:


> If it were me, I would recommend or sell a rip off and build a nice deck where that now sits.


X2

I would insist on it. No way would I tie my nice shiny new deck onto that chicken coup. It will detract from your work.

It would be faster in the long run too, rather than building around that existing structure.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

ASIinc. said:


> Ok here are some pics maybe I didnt explain it well enough but I think some may have gotten the wrong idea. my bad So today I ran a temp beam underneath it with with 6x6's on each end(outside on footing) and 4x4 supports underneath(on blocks) so I can get the outside beam out the only problem is the whole thing will be sitting on subfloor until I get the new one in hopefully no more than a couple mins. The real problem is supporting the sides and getting those beams out. May have to splice new to old and add a few more piers?


Man, you call this addition? I'm surprised this whole abortion still standing. The whole thing should be gutted and redone right, because if you dig around there, its probably the whole structural integrity of that "addition" is deteriorated. If I saw this pictures before I suggested temp bracing... My suggestion would be to do this


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

ASIinc. said:


> The flashing went under the door and down to the corners but it was mostly disintegrated.


That wouldn't happen to be aluminum flashing in contact with PT would it? Should be copper or galvanized.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Any updates?
Curious how this panned out.


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## Andrew6127 (Aug 14, 2012)

I am just taking a guess at this, my knowledge is limited, but based on the pictures.....

If the supporting floor joists are in decent enough shape would it be possible to jack them up from each of the farthest possible point, bulding some temp bracing for the upper half, replace the outside beams and set it back down and work from there? 

I'm just looking at it as more of a logic puzzle than the hot mess it really is.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Bump,

Always curious how some of these types of projects turn out.
Could be a good thread for anyone facing a similar challenge,
I wish the OP would share how it got done.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Me too


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