# Curious: why hire union?



## finakat (Jun 7, 2011)

I wanted to start a separate thread for this since all the other union threads are more geared towards opinions and debate. Me and s co-worker were wondering this the other day and couldn't find a logical answer.

What's the purpose of a contractor becoming union? If he could easily hire non-union labor and increase his profit? In this case how would unions even survive aside from govt projects?

Id like to hear it from the bigger commercial contractors who deal with union and non. I understand there are tax write offs and etc but what else? Is it the pressure? Perhaps some networking, fringe benefits?

Please respond only with straight facts. If this turns into a thread like the last union one the mods are likely to shut it down.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

well rereading the whole union thread, you will see that there are many facts for a union contractor and for not being a union contractor. There has been many seasoned contractors from both sides of the fence that has added their experices. Almost all of it is true. Also many carpenters have addded their experice. I doubt any of us could add more to it other then starting another war that gets no where. 

You could PM the members that you have serious questions about thier stand point.


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

I work for a large commercial gc. We only hire union contractors in cities where the union presence is very strong, and even then only on certain projects. We have done mixed jobs (union and non union) and it is a pain the butt. 

We build mostly apartments, nursing homes, senior apartments, etc. Mostly wood frame.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Why Hire Union?... If for no other reason to show you that you can charge more than you are now...


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
These things still mean something to some people.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

I own a union company and bid on both union and non union work. 
Its less of a head ache to hire union employees imo
My guys have there osha 30 and ingersol rand hardware certs they dont miss time there reliable. Theres a big difference when paying someone 46 compared to 25. And thats union or non union. 
I really dont see a benefit to go non union maybe my profit margins would go up maybe. But i would definetly lose my core group of guys. And then im down to dealing with the problems of a carpenter whos willing to work for 25 an hour and no benefits. This is the benefit for me a small contractor im sure there are benefits to the larger companys


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Can't you go non-union and still pay 45 a hour?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I hired a union guy to do some drywall for me since I have been pre-occupied and all I can say is wow. Cleanest work I have ever seen.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

Yes and some of my guys would like that but my forman would say fu and go work for some one else to get his 85 points so he can retire. 
And there are not that many non union applicants out there that meet my requirements. Certs drug tests commercial back ground. They either own there own co or are a forman elsewhere. And the little amount of work i get from signatory union gcs i wouldnt.
The apprenticeship program here is good.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
> These things still mean something to some people.


There is also the savings of not having to train your work force, a call to the hall will get you a journeyman that is already trained to do his trade. There is also the benefits, you as an employer pay one a weekly figure to the local per employee and they have all the benefits offered by the local, as opposed to you either not providing benefits, or paying much higher premiums for small group insurance. 

Being union allows you to only staff the number of people you need at any given time, if times are slow you send them back to the hall as opposed to trying to scramble to find something for your guys to do to prevent them from quitting on you from lack of work.

Other benefits from hiring union are going to vary by location, in cities with a large union presence a lot of the larger jobs are going to be union only jobs out of necessity, so it can open up more bidding opportunities.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

I wont hire people from the hall in my opinion you get the bottom of the barrel


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

You usually get well trained carpenters, and can call from the hall for more if needs it. They are like any other group, some have work ethic, some don't. The one issue I saw that was common with ones I worked around, was that they were very particular about not doing work that was not what they thought they should be doing. Also if it got over 101 degrees they roll up?? They usually worked from 7 to 330, so usually wasn't a problem.

Here union boys get 500$ health insurance and 23$ an hour for journeyman, 24$ for crew foreman's, 25$ for section foreman's. Not 45$, not even with benifits. Most companies had paid holidays and NO vacation. I am non union and have paid holidays and vacation.

One thing I didn't like was that you could bypass much of the four year apprenticeship. Could just be regional though. Union doesn't have any pull here.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> There is also the savings of not having to train your work force, a call to the hall will get you a journeyman that is already trained to do his trade. There is also the benefits, you as an employer pay one a weekly figure to the local per employee and they have all the benefits offered by the local, as opposed to you either not providing benefits, or paying much higher premiums for small group insurance.
> 
> Being union allows you to only staff the number of people you need at any given time, if times are slow you send them back to the hall as opposed to trying to scramble to find something for your guys to do to prevent them from quitting on you from lack of work.
> 
> Other benefits from hiring union are going to vary by location, in cities with a large union presence a lot of the larger jobs are going to be union only jobs out of necessity, so it can open up more bidding opportunities.


 Thank You very well put:thumbsup:


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## falcon1 (Dec 4, 2007)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
> These things still mean something to some people.


As if private contractors don't pay well and only hire illegals. People don't usually care what you do as long as long as you get the job done on tie and on budget. We're not social agencies. We actually use our own money and need to make a profit to survive.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> To show that you pay a living wage and use legal work force.
> These things still mean something to some people.


So non-union contractors only hire dead aliens?


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## room2roof (Feb 1, 2011)

KAP said:


> Why Hire Union?... If for no other reason to show you that you can charge more than you are now...


The Union fights for employees rights for a better wage and has a great apprenticeship program with on the job and classroom training....I was Union back in NYC but now here in Charlotte NC there is no Union and I have to train my own employees........."Anyone can pull a Tooth out but it takes Schooling to become a Dentist" lol...

Charlotte Roofing, Remodeling and Painting Contractors - NC


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

> There is also the savings of not having to train your work force, a call to the hall will get you a journeyman that is already trained to do his trade.


That's not true




> Being union allows you to only staff the number of people you need at any given time, if times are slow you send them back to the hall as opposed to trying to scramble to find something for your guys to do to prevent them from quitting on you from lack of work.


It's the same thing. Lay people off is just that laying people off.




> Other benefits from hiring union are going to vary by location, in cities with a large union presence a lot of the larger jobs are going to be union only jobs out of necessity,


Not true. It's called a Project Labor Agreement which restricts free & open competition for projects. It's the only way unions can survive in a free market




> so it can open up more bidding opportunities.


That's not true. Private sector unions continue to lose market share all over the country. More & more states are passing Anti-Project Labor Agreement laws which means even less market market share for union contractors.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Brickie said:


> That's not true


Yes it is





Brickie said:


> It's the same thing. Lay people off is just that laying people off.


 But when your in a union your family gets to keep their health inc. for the next year or so till your reemployed 





Brickie said:


> Not true. It's called a Project Labor Agreement which restricts free & open competition for projects. It's the only way unions can survive in a free market


 Yes it is, but your free and open really means pay as little as possible and treat them any way you want to. And pay the illegals cash on Friday. I really am tired of hearing of this so called free market place when we all know it's rigged from the top all the way down and the ones that profit the most are the fat cats on the top. Take your free market and tell it to someone that doesn't know any better. In your free market place, Red Lobster buys shrimp from Thailand and China at 2.50a lb. and resales them for 24$ a lb. with huge pics of gulf shrimping boats all over their walls:blink: Man could I go on an on good thing I can't type !





Brickie said:


> That's not true. Private sector unions continue to lose market share all over the country. More & more states are passing Anti-Project Labor Agreement laws which means even less market market share for union contractors.


 Yea your right again, because the crooks in government want the illegals vote:no:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Yes it is


So if you ALWAYS get a JW, where do the union apprentices work for the first five years of their careers?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Gotta love the unions:



























You guys can keep your unions!

http://influencepeddler.blogspot.com/2007/01/unions-killing-detroit-auto-industry.html

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-grand-rapids/unions-destroyed-u-s-auto-industry


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