# Furnace in fish house acting up..



## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Any of you pro's have any ideas what's going on with my fish house furance???

Here's the details.
Older Empire style DV with thermostat on top of unit. 

The unit will fire up and the big flame works fine but when it goes to pilot it goes out. You can restart it and the same thing occures.

Any thoughts???

Thanks in advance!


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

Maybe try a thermocouple?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Can you observe the pilot flame and thermocouple while this is going on? Like JK, my first stop with pilot light trouble is the TC. Could be it's marginal, and the flame wavers just a tad too far from the TC just after the main burner shuts off.

PS. Your fish live in a house?


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Actualy most of my fish live until they are in the fish house!

On a typical year the lake my house is on gets 36 inches of ice. The resort owner drives his huge articulating tractor out there.

The problem I got on my hands currently is this. Got a baby due to be born any day now, my wife is 5 days past term. The fish house is rented out and it's booked solid and the renters so far have had to deal with this problem. With no plans to go to the house anytime soon wanting to get some ideas on a quick fix or at least trouble shoot a few things.

Got a TC up there and the next group is said to be handy with furnaces.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

dougger222 said:


> Actualy most of my fish live until they are in the fish house!
> 
> On a typical year the lake my house is on gets 36 inches of ice.


Whoosh! Totally missed that explanation. :laughing:

Good luck with the furnace, but more importantly, good luck with the kiddo! :thumbsup:


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

before replacing the valve, I would replace the thermocouple. But, based on a sentence or two, I think its the valve.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Tinstaafl said:


> Whoosh! Totally missed that explanation. :laughing:
> 
> Good luck with the furnace, but more importantly, good luck with the kiddo! :thumbsup:


Thanks and thanks again!!!


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

flashheatingand said:


> before replacing the valve, I would replace the thermocouple. But, based on a sentence or two, I think its the valve.


What is the valve? Is it the unit the flame exits from? Is the valve simple to replace?

Thanks!


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Apparently I can't cut 'n' paste a picture into here but if you google image search "gas valve" you'll see it. Many different types but in the end they simply provide the furnace and pilot gas. Pressure and voltage can be tested to see if it's good, but for pressure you'd need a manometer. Not sure if you have one or not. Magnahelic, maybe?


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

If you have 10 minutes to watch a video and can put up with the backwoods country accent then watch this. Shows voltage and pressure testing of gas valve.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Dougger -

I hope your generator, satellite TV, refrigerator and freezer are working fine.

The ice on Lake Mille Lacs is thick enough for the week-end crowds. Some people do not understand the business and economic effect of ice houses.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Being a Texan I'm having difficulty with envisioning exactly what a fish house is. Anyone? 

I'm thinking one of those little huts that you sit in with a hole cut through the ice?


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

dougger222 said:


> What is the valve? Is it the unit the flame exits from? Is the valve simple to replace?
> 
> Thanks!


Simple to replace if you are familiar with furnaces. It still isn't that difficult, but, I wouldn't run to the parts house just because some hucklebuck is speculating on something based on a sentence or two. If you have a hvac buddy, they would likely be happy to help out


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

flashheatingand said:


> Simple to replace if you are familiar with furnaces. It still isn't that difficult, but, I wouldn't run to the parts house just because some hucklebuck is speculating on something based on a sentence or two. If you have a hvac buddy, they would likely be happy to help out


did you just call me a hucklebuck or yourself because you're the one who said it was the valve. I simply informed him what it was. :sad:


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

flashheatingand said:


> before replacing the valve, I would replace the thermocouple. _* But, based on a sentence or two, I think its the valve*_.


You taken your meds today?


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Doc Holliday said:


> Apparently I can't cut 'n' paste a picture into here but if you google image search "gas valve" you'll see it. Many different types but in the end they simply provide the furnace and pilot gas. Pressure and voltage can be tested to see if it's good, but for pressure you'd need a manometer. Not sure if you have one or not. Magnahelic, maybe?


The fish house furnace is LP powered only no electricity at all. The unit doesn't have a blower on it.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Now I have..... 

He says the pilot goes out after the main valve closes. Most standing pilot systems don't don't have a pilot cut-out circuit, so something is making it go out. Either there is a serious venting problem (not likely if he has a pretty old furnace), a cracked h.e., or a bad valve. I am envisioning an old dinasaur tank-like heater. How often have you seen a cracked h.e. on those things? 

No, there isn't any reason to call out names. The fact that you spend some free time at a hvac site means that you take pride and enjoy the gig, which I respect. In the case above, I was referring to myself. 

But, not too many people get that sensitive to the word "Hucklebuck". Hmmph !!


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Oh, it's on a millivolt setup? Thats a different setup. Maybe the valve. But, a thermopile at hand wouldn't hurt. Is somebody there familiar with a multi-0meter?


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

flashheatingand said:


> No, there isn't any reason to call out names. The fact that you spend some free time at a hvac site means that you take pride and enjoy the gig, which I respect. In the case above, I was referring to myself.
> 
> But, not too many people get that sensitive to the word "Hucklebuck". Hmmph !!


I thought you may have been referring to me due to being Doc Holliday and "I'm Your _*Huckleberry*_." No harm, no foul.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I spoke with the last guy up at the fish house and he told me a little more about what is going on with the furnace.

It will fire up and run good until the built in thermostat tells it to go to pilot at which time the pilot goes out. If you start it up it will keep on pilot and when you crank it up it goes to full flame and stays there for a while until the thermostat tells it to go back to pilot at which time the pilot goes out.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

flashheatingand said:


> Now I have.....
> 
> He says the pilot goes out after the main valve closes. Most standing pilot systems don't don't have a pilot cut-out circuit, so something is making it go out. Either there is a serious venting problem (not likely if he has a pretty old furnace), a cracked h.e., or a bad valve. I am envisioning an old dinasaur tank-like heater. How often have you seen a cracked h.e. on those things?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't consider the furnace huge but it's also not small. Going to see if I can post a pic of it.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

It very well could be a gas pressure issue from water (moisture) in the main gas lines to in the valve to simply low pressure to a bad valve but if the flame sensor/thermocouple does not detect the flame (the rod sits in front of the pilot and produces a dc electrical signal to ground/cabinet via the flame) then the 24 volts to the gas valve is shut off intermittenly.

If you have some fine grit sandpaper or a green rough Scotchbrite dish scouring pad you can simply clean the thermocouple with it, Residue and sut builds up on that rod, interfering with it's ability to "sense" (electrical signal) the flame. It's also relatively inexpensive to buy a new one, approximately $30.

You might want to take this time to verify that the unit has a strong ground wire to it as it's also needed for flame rectification.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

It sounds like a milivolt setup. They aren't terribly complicated. But, unless you are familiar with using a multi meter, and millivolts, it's best to get a hvac guy out there. But feel free to describe what is going on, and keep us posted.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

First time posting a pic on here, learning...


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

note this is natural gas and not liquid propane but I'm sure if you searched long enough you'd find one. you can find anything on youtube.
anyways, this is just to give you an idea.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

dougger222 said:


> First time posting a pic on here, learning...


I was right, just a hut with holes in the floor. :clap:

no way could I ever do that. :thumbup:


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Another shot


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Doc,

Thanks for sharing the video. You have a Hollywood voice!!! You could do voice overs!

Don't have those tools but the testing looks very straight foward and simple. Does your average home improvement store carry the two testing tools?


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Doc Holliday said:


> I was right, just a hut with holes in the floor. :clap:
> 
> no way could I ever do that. :thumbup:


This house is a hut you could say. About 10 years ago built a custom wheeled fish house (yes, made to be towed to the take and then cranked down to sit flat on the ice) that looked like a cabin. Cedar shake roof, cedar soufit, house door, house windows, $7K invested 6.5x12.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

That's not me in the vid, my friend. I just searched for "gas valve" and that was the first millivolt vid I came across. And if you do not have electricity than Flash is right, it's a millivolt set up. 

I'm not sure about the magnahelic being at The Home Depot or Lowes, meters yes but they'll be a bit more expensive than from a supply houses so just get a cheap one that does millivolts. Grainger would have a mag, I'd have to think.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

dougger222 said:


> This house is a hut you could say. About 10 years ago built a custom wheeled fish house (yes, made to be towed to the take and then cranked down to sit flat on the ice) that looked like a cabin. Cedar shake roof, cedar soufit, house door, house windows, $7K invested 6.5x12.


I noticed in the construction section you are building another one. You obviously rent them out so can I ask does this business turn a profit? 

How do you rent them? Weekly?


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

dougger222 said:


> This house is a hut you could say. About 10 years ago built a custom wheeled fish house (yes, made to be towed to the take and then cranked down to sit flat on the ice) that looked like a cabin. Cedar shake roof, cedar soufit, house door, house windows, $7K invested 6.5x12.


ps, I couldn't do that due to the fact hat if it gets below 60f I go into hybernation mode. I'm very warm bloOded. It's snowed maye twice in the past ten years down here, dropping a full one inch or two that lasted maybe half a day, and both times were far too much for me. :laughing:


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Doc Holliday said:


> I noticed in the construction section you are building another one. You obviously rent them out so can I ask does this business turn a profit?
> 
> How do you rent them? Weekly?


I currently only rent the Lake of the Woods fish house. It stays at a very popular resort who is pretty much booked solid all Winter by first ice! I've had the fish house up there for 8 years now, and this is my third year renting it out. Been going to the resort for 15 years 3-5 times per year with only 3 Summer trips total.

Here's how it works up there. Yearly storage is $125. If the resort pulls it out to the spot it's $40-50 same as bringing it back to it's storage spot. They can move it from spot to spot on the lake which costs $20-40. The price goes up if they have to move a lot of snow. Last few years I've moved it or friends/customers have. The resort plows an access road which even a small car can drive to the fish house, $8 a day access fee.

I run a free add on Craigslist for the house for rent for $75 a night M-T and $100 a night for F-S. Most groups pay $250 for a weekend and $200 for a midweek stay. The catch is this, the renters must provide propane, drill the holes, buy access fee ect. They are basicly paying me to use the fish house! The resorts up there charge per person per day and typicaly it's $75-125 per person per day. I've had groups pay me $300 and the resort wanted $1,000 and my fish house is nicer. 

The typical rent time is from Chirstmas to end of March ice pending. On average it's a 2.5 month rent season which can generate $3-4K depending on bookings. Right now I've only got one weekend open.

My father, brothers, and uncles all helped build the fish house. My uncle got most of the materials for free and I put out another $2K. Had to replace runners last year at a cost of $800 (white oak) which the resort did for me. My uncle was bought out as he moved away three years ago. To build another house like this one you would have $4-5K into it. Would like to build one more hose for up there... A good friend of mine just bought a nice wheeled house which he's keeping at the resort and he said I can use it whenever, he's not renting his house out though.

As far as being profitable yes it sure is but money is only the half of the reason why I do it. The main reason is because the resorts charge WAY to much for rental fish houses. Like getting people up there who are willing to do a little work and save a ton of money. It's also led to several friendships and long term renters.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Doc Holliday said:


> ps, I couldn't do that due to the fact hat if it gets below 60f I go into hybernation mode. I'm very warm bloOded. It's snowed maye twice in the past ten years down here, dropping a full one inch or two that lasted maybe half a day, and both times were far too much for me. :laughing:


LOL,
You could go from your warm pick up right into the warm fish house if you had to! A few years ago couldn't help but notice the private house next to mine was owned by two lesbians. They would mainly fish it on the weekends and this is how they did it. The driver would pull up to the house get out drill the holes fire up the furnace bank the house (throw snow around the four walls) and get the lines prepped. When the house was toasty warm she'd go out to the running pick up and have her girlfriend join her! It's was obvious who ran that relationship!

Paying customers of the resort have several fishing options. Some pay to go right out the warmed sleeper fish house and stay out there 24 hours a day. Some want to relax in style so they go to warmed day houses and back to the high end log cabins at night. 

A Texan may find this impossible to comprehend but my resort has an igloo on the ice which is basicly a giant fish house/bar. It's got sat with a big screen, full service bar, food, and for $5 an hour you can rent a hole to fish out of. I'll try to post some pics of it on here or link to it, it's really cool!!!


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

dougger -

That is certainly a comfortable, functional old school fish house that can be hauled out and hauled in in the spring (if it is not frozen in from floor heat loss). Do you bring out and set up the alarms on the lines when you are there?

What lake is it on? At least you don't need a 12' wide road and ice thick enough for a dozer/tractor to drag it in and out seasonally.

My friend had a bigger house on the "father of ice fishing" lake and used it as an fish house in the winter and put it on block to use it as a cabin on shore in the summer. Fortunately, his was not too big, so he did not have the "hookers" (not fishermen) knocking on the door every week-end.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

dougger222 said:


> LOL,
> You could go from your warm pick up right into the warm fish house if you had to! A few years ago couldn't help but notice the private house next to mine was owned by two lesbians. They would mainly fish it on the weekends and this is how they did it. The driver would pull up to the house get out drill the holes fire up the furnace bank the house (throw snow around the four walls) and get the lines prepped. When the house was toasty warm she'd go out to the running pick up and have her girlfriend join her! It's was obvious who ran that relationship!
> 
> Paying customers of the resort have several fishing options. Some pay to go right out the warmed sleeper fish house and stay out there 24 hours a day. Some want to relax in style so they go to warmed day houses and back to the high end log cabins at night.
> ...


Okay, maybe if I were to to go in a group of let's say myself and two or more lesbians I could do it. 

That sounds pretty cool and I certainly would enjoy some pictures!


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

concretemasonry said:


> dougger -
> 
> That is certainly a comfortable, functional old school fish house that can be hauled out and hauled in in the spring (if it is not frozen in from floor heat loss). Do you bring out and set up the alarms on the lines when you are there?
> 
> ...


We put blocks under the runners to keep it from freezing in. I've got the rattle reels with bells in the Lake of the Woods house. In the 6.5x12ft wheeled house ran alarms on the 5 holes. The alarms are basicly door alarms mounted to the back of the rattle reel (bells removed for weight) with a magnet. The wires run back to a siren which is tuned down to not wake up the people on shore which is run of a 9V battery. Before it was fine tuned it sure was loud!

I take my house out with any of the diesels with 12 inches of good ice. This year has been odd and they didn't let trucks drive out before 14 inches.

Right now sort of bummed out though. A huge pressure ridge/crack has shut down most resorts on the South half of the lake including the resort I keep my house at. Had a group on the way up call to let me know. Not sure when they will open it but it's sure going to kill business. Reports were at 4pm today a truck and fish house went in...


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Doc Holliday said:


> Okay, maybe if I were to to go in a group of let's say myself and two or more lesbians I could do it.
> 
> That sounds pretty cool and I certainly would enjoy some pictures!


If you saw these two girls you may just want to stay in warm Texas for the Winter!

I did do a roof a few years ago for a lesbian couple who also had a cabin on Mill Lacs lake with another lesbian couple. The four summer and iced fished quite a bit. One of the woman was very very hot!!! In two days working on the roof figured out right away who was the "man" in that relationship!!!

I've got some friends who's wives/girlfriends love to ice fish and hunt and they are smoking hot.


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