# Sub asking for more $ after final bill paid



## J.Vick (Aug 31, 2006)

I know for a fact that the $3000 is in fact profit that they are asking for. We have recieved all thier invoices from machine rentals and rock hauling. They itemized a list of all costs is broken down for us, then at the end they are asking for a 25% profit on everything. They explained this as their cost for "keeping their doors open." I understand asking for the extra rock charge, even though they should have billed us right the first time. I don't understand asking for $3000 in profit they "forgot" to bill for.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

J. Vick
Legally, you can tell them to go **** themselves AND insist that they fulfill the foundation contract . If they refuse, hire another and sue them for the difference.

Under no circumstances offer to pay any part of what they are asking for. This will result in NOVATION, which means a creation of a new agreement or contract.

I would definitely go on the offensive on this one. You can probably put them into bankruptcy if you so desire.

Mark


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

J.Vick said:


> Their price was a fixed price- $9800. That included everything.


JVick,

Would you tell us the job specifications that led to the "everything included" price


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

MarkNoV said:


> J. Vick
> Legally, you can tell them to go **** themselves
> 
> I would definitely go on the offensive on this one. You can probably put them into bankruptcy if you so desire.
> ...


 Mark, Sounds like you'de be a blast to work for.:no:


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## J.Vick (Aug 31, 2006)

We started with a signed contract for approx $5500. That included everything but had the incorrect type of fill. It was for 6" of 3/4 minus. When the excavation started we all realized that would not fly. At this point I had the Geo Tech come out and give his recomendations for excavating to hardpan, and filling with 4" minus. At this point there should have been a change order....I am a dumbass for not getting a change order, and they are dumb for not giving me one. At the completion of the job they gave us a final bill for $9800 that was itemized out including a rock charge for $3000. Two weeks later they called and said they recieved a bill from the rock hauling company for $7500. I couldn't believe it, so I insisted on seeing all the invoices for rock and machine rentals. On top of asking for the balance for the rock, they want $3000 just for profit. The rock I somewhat understand asking for $, but the profit.......


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## Same Old (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm not sure who's more green here.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

J.Vick

Is this your website?
http://www.elitebuildersnw.com/

Mark


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## J.Vick (Aug 31, 2006)

Same old,

How about an opinion on what you think is a solution.


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## J.Vick (Aug 31, 2006)

Mark,

No that is not us, but it looks nice.


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

Same Old said:


> Then it's their problem.


Yes it is, I would not give them another dime.

J. Vick, how long has this company been in business?


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Cole said:


> Yes it is, I would not give them another dime.
> 
> J. Vick, how long has this company been in business?


Would be an interesting court case, but personally if I read all the circumstances right I think the Sub would come out the winner. I could be wrong.


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## Same Old (Mar 9, 2007)

OK

I've never once heard an excavator give a flat price. Not once. 

Second, who builds a house without a soil report? You should have a pretty good idea what you're going to find. There is no reason for a miscalculation like that. You went from $5500 to $17300 in costs.
That's a big error on a site prep IMHO. 

And at the point you discovered your problems why not drop some pans and pour a concrete foundation?


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

J. Vick,

It all seems unclear to me. If you admit the additional stone was an extra? And you didn't get a contract price for that extra? And you authorized the work? You were willing to pay what ever that extra cost?

Unless the bill you say was the final bill, stated "Final bill" on it? Your upset that it took 2 weeks for them to get you the final bill? Did you ask them at the time of the second billing if this is the total cost? Did you put "Final payment" "payment in full for all work completed" on your check?

I am not trying to do anything but understand where this started and how it evolved until today.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

> I think the Sub would come out the winner


.

Jmic
Why do you think so?

Based on my knowledge of contracts the sub has no case. He quoted a price to dig a hole, dug it, got paid the agreed price. Both parties did what they were supposed to do, the contract has been fulfilled. There is no case here of one party taking advantage of the others' lack of knowledge or experience. 

Mark


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## HD3 (Mar 11, 2007)

I have bid jobs before and ran into unforseen problems but by giveing them a lump sum bid it was my problem. I would never ask for more money for my mistake. When i tell somebody im going to do something i do it even if it means no profit or even loseing money. To sum things up id say its their problem. If you have them do your foundation id make sure all i's are dotted & t's crossed.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

For 4500 dollars in rock i could get 15 tri axles delivered of clean stone!!

That 3k in profit is their overhead cost most likely. Especially if they say its 'to keep their doors open'.

If the excavating was this big of a proablem, i can not imagine what the foundation will be like. How much did they under figure for the concrete??

I have never came back and charged more. Not once. I am a man of my word and hold to it.

I just can not fathom that they put 7500 bucks of stone into the pad.


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## Chippewabuilt (Mar 16, 2007)

it sounds like there pulling a scam on you, If my company gives a price I stick by that price i have a rep, I can't go back and say i messed up the bid i need more money people would talk and I would lose credit ,thats why you better know what your biding or get out of the that line of work you dont belong in it,


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

My 2cents; Sounds like it's on them...But, if you're interested in a long term relationship, you can follow up on your first impulse to cover their cost, or any percentage thereof.

In long term relationships I've had with some gc's and subs, there is some give and take when we run into 'unplanned' costs.

We would try to cover each other's azz on the next job. 

FWIW-"relationship" is the relevant/operative phrase. Where do ya'll want to be a year from now? 5 years? Does it matter to you?


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## Chippewabuilt (Mar 16, 2007)

I don't want my guys to eat a couple hundred dollors eather but when your talking a couple thousand dollors theres a problem on your end and he tried being the lowest bid and he didn't check his numbers good or know his material good.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

MarkNoV said:


> .
> 
> Jmic
> Why do you think so?
> ...


Mark,
Once they started the excavation and ran into the water and unstable soils which needed the engineer to come out to come up with a remedy to correct the situation " The scope of work changed" at that time the GC and the sub should have come to terms of additional costs. Obviously that did not happen but appears the Sub had the GC's blessing to get the pad to acceptable condition to pass footing inspections.
I't's not like the sub stole or cheated the GC , he has documentation showing the materials were delivered to the site and should be able to prove just by figuring the depth and area the material was put in.
It sounds to me like the GC didn't pinpoint the sub on cost but just wanted to keep the job rolling. I think if it went to court the Judge would side with the sub and allow him to charge a fair percentge for overhead.
No disrespect to you JV, but I think you should concider this a educational expense and move on. Weather you choose to do more business with the Sub is you perogative.
Several times during the course of the year I will find myself in the same situation. I had a couple sites last year pusing close to 18K to remediate the same kind of problems. Do people like to pay it? NO! But I didn't create the problem, just doing whats necessary to keep the job going.


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