# Pendant(s) not working



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Here’s what I got. We installed this pendant about 10 years ago as part of a remodel. I got a call from the customer that it (one of four) was not working and he already changed the bulb.

I switched the pendant with one of the ones that was working and the working one worked in the location of the non-working one (transformer in the canopy is ok). The non-working pendant does not work in the location of the working pendant (something is wrong after the transformer).

I purchased a new cable for the non-working pendant – Fixed and done.

About a week later the customer calls and says another pendant is now not working. 

I purchased another cable and it works. 

But… one of the other pendants stopped working… as soon as I got the non-working one working. To this point, I still only have 3 of four pendants working… different pendant not working… but still only three of four working.

I then purchase yet another cable and replace it in the pendant that doesn’t work – no joy. But even worse the other pendant (original not working pendant) stopped working as well. Now I’m down to two (of the four) pendants working.

I cannot figure out what is going on here. Any suggestions?

Here are some pictures of what I’m working with.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Buy a multimeter and check for voltage.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Buy a multimeter and check for voltage.


Hey Kevin, I have a multimeter, but I’m not sure where to test it that would determine where the issue lies.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

You might need a new halogen socket. The high heat can cook them (technical term).


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> You might need a new halogen socket. The high heat can cook them (technical term).


The new socket comes preassembled on the new cable.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Hey Kevin, I have a multimeter, but I’m not sure where to test it that would determine where the issue lies.


Take out the fixture and hang it by a single long machine screw, long enough so you can pull the transformer out. Using a set of back pin probes check the output at the transformer and at the bulb.

The most common problem with those fixtures is the ****ty base that the bulbs plug into. They get corroded and need to be replaced. Wiggle the bulb and see if it lights up.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I have a customer who has lights like those with the thin wire, we had problems at the connection to the canopy. The end was not pushed in far enough, it would only work if you pushed it in by hand. We changed canopy and all is well.

Electrician complained for days about those fixtures


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

I cant tell from your pictures, but we worked on some fixtures that looked similar. There was a tiny allen screw that secured the connection that had come loose. Had several fixtures in the house that had the same issue


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Take out the fixture and hang it by a single long machine screw, long enough so you can pull the transformer out. Using a set of back pin probes check the output at the transformer and at the bulb.
> 
> The most common problem with those fixtures is the ****ty base that the bulbs plug into. They get corroded and need to be replaced. Wiggle the bulb and see if it lights up.


Thanks. If I move a working fixture to the location of the non-working fixture… it works… I don’t think it’s a transformer problem.

I can check the output at the bulb end, but if it’s low (or non-existent) I still don’t know where the problem originates at.

****ty is being kind on the bulb connection. But it can’t be corrosion… they’re new.

I told the customer that if it doesn’t light up when he flips the switch… just wiggle the bulb. He told me to go phuck myself. I told him I’ve tried that hundreds of times in my life… it just doesn’t work. He said I need a longer tool!

Can someone tell me how the cable works? It connects with set screws to stripped wire (inside the outer sleeve). Does the outside sleeve do anything? Should it somehow make a connection?


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

rrk said:


> I have a customer who has lights like those with the thin wire, we had problems at the connection to the canopy. The end was not pushed in far enough, it would only work if you pushed it in by hand. We changed canopy and all is well.
> 
> Electrician complained for days about those fixtures


Had the same issue early in the process. After a bit I figured-out that the wire needed to reach the set screw at the tip. Electrician complained about these as well. I told him to go phuck himself. He said… Read the previous post... You get the point.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

I've replaced several of those type of mr16 sockets, they arc and corrode.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

They're ten years old and well out of warranty. Surprising that you can even get parts for them.

Since you're on such cordial terms with the HO, just tell him it's time to replace all of them with something more current, or he can give an oral caress to your anal sphincter. :jester:


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

They are really good – longtime customers. We have these conversations regularly. Not so surprisingly, the parts are readily available. The supply house says they sell a ton of them at $45 each.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Yeah, I do get it.

Not familiar with that exact product, but as a class they do tend to become problematic well before ten years. Haven't done it myself, but you might want to try an anti-oxidant like Noalox on the lamp contacts.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Yeah, I do get it.
> 
> Not familiar with that exact product, but as a class they do tend to become problematic well before ten years. Haven't done it myself, but you might want to try an anti-oxidant like Noalox on the lamp contacts.


I'd be careful with noalox, it's flammable and I believe it has a flashpoint of 200°F
Those ceramic socket connections get petty hot, hence the Teflon wire.
My 2 cents, if it's worth that much...


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## wireless (Nov 2, 2006)

If you replace the socket do not reuse the old bulb even if it still works. The pins will usually have corrosion and cause the new socket to fail faster


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I really do not think it is the bulb connection. Our issue was the connector at the top of the wire just did not reach the pin in the canopy, that allen screw is microscopic and it seemed like when it was being tightened it would lower cable ever so slightly. Putting the globe or glass decoration on it would cause it not to work after just getting it to work with it off, weight pulled it down.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

m1911 said:


> I'd be careful with noalox, it's flammable and I believe it has a flashpoint of 200°F


Oops, you're right. Made me go look; the flashpoint is actually 310. Probably not the best idea.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Yeah, I do get it.
> 
> Not familiar with that exact product, but as a class they do tend to become problematic well before ten years. Haven't done it myself, but you might want to try an anti-oxidant like Noalox on the lamp contacts.





m1911 said:


> I'd be careful with noalox, it's flammable and I believe it has a flashpoint of 200°F
> Those ceramic socket connections get petty hot, hence the Teflon wire.
> My 2 cents, if it's worth that much...





wireless said:


> If you replace the socket do not reuse the old bulb even if it still works. The pins will usually have corrosion and cause the new socket to fail faster


New cable – new socket – new bulb – still no work.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> New cable – new socket – new bulb – still no work.


Rhymes with cheese.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> New cable – new socket – new bulb – still no work.


At this point, try a new transformer. Seems the only thing left.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> New cable – new socket – new bulb – still no work.


12 volt electronic transformer.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

m1911 said:


> 12 volt electronic transformer.


this may help


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I hate crap like this when you spend time and money attempting a repair when you should have convinced the client to replace from the start. Which is what I normally do even if it's the same product but preferably not.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Not counting the time on here with you guys, I have 5.5 hours and $180 in materials tied up in this POS already. They’re going to love this bill… assuming I ever get them working.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

avenge said:


> I hate crap like this when you spend time and money attempting a repair when you should have convinced the client to replace from the start. Which is what I normally do even if it's the same product but preferably not.


the problem is they may have 4 or 10 of these in a kitchen and many times are no longer available to buy. Now they may have to buy 6 $400 fixtures to fix one fixture. The one we fixed was $600


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

rrk said:


> the problem is they may have 4 or 10 of these in a kitchen and many times are no longer available to buy. Now they may have to buy 6 $400 fixtures to fix one fixture. The one we fixed was $600


No the problem is in the OP's case they are 10 years old even if you replace with identical new who's to say you won't have the same issue even sooner. The OP has already spent what might be wasted time and money if he doesn't get it working. The OP stated they are $45 each.

It doesn't take me long to figure out when I'm better off replacing versus repairing. If they are willing to spend $600 per fixture 10 years ago then they better be prepared to fork out cash 10 years later for replacement.

The initial cost of the item is irrelevant to me.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

I've got a customer who has several of those expensive pendant lamps in the kitchen and living room. I've replaced the socket on a couple, and replaced 2 transformers over the past few years. The transformers went bad from using the wrong type of dimmer switch, I'm quite certain. Also, when the sockets start arcing, that can ruin the transformer, they are electronic and sensitive.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

avenge said:


> No the problem is in the OP's case they are 10 years old even if you replace with identical new who's to say you won't have the same issue even sooner. The OP has already spent what might be wasted time and money if he doesn't get it working. The OP stated they are $45 each.
> 
> It doesn't take me long to figure out when I'm better off replacing versus repairing. If they are willing to spend $600 per fixture 10 years ago then they better be prepared to fork out cash 10 years later for replacement.
> 
> The initial cost of the item is irrelevant to me.


Just to be clear, the replacement cables are $45 each. I looked-up the original pendant price and they were $691 each (2006 dollars). 

We did the research for replacing them and that exact pendant is no longer made. We can get them with a different shade color/shape/size. Other than that they are identical :laughing:

As rrk said, if just one of them refuses to work, we will need to replace all 4.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Just to be clear, the replacement cables are $45 each. I looked-up the original pendant price and they were $691 each (2006 dollars).
> 
> We did the research for replacing them and that exact pendant is no longer made. We can get them with a different shade color/shape/size. Other than that they are identical :laughing:
> 
> As rrk said, if just one of them refuses to work, we will need to replace all 4.


Ya I'm just saying both as a contractor or client I'd be a little upset if it cost say $600 for an attempted repair when that cost could have went towards replacement. Any time I run into something of this nature I always ask "How much money do you want to put into an attempted repair?"

At $691 each 10 years ago would I want the same damn fixture? As a client or contractor probably not.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Just to be clear, the replacement cables are $45 each. I looked-up the original pendant price and they were $691 each (2006 dollars).
> 
> We did the research for replacing them and that exact pendant is no longer made. We can get them with a different shade color/shape/size. Other than that they are identical :laughing:
> 
> As rrk said, if just one of them refuses to work, we will need to replace all 4.


They must be from the same mfg as the ones I worked on, about the same timeframe. They suck


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Replacement pendants $600 x 4 = $2,400
Designer cost to select new pendants = $185
Electrician to R&R = $400
General Contractor to coordinate the above = Priceless.



:laughing::lol:


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## C'est Moi (Jun 6, 2015)

I had the same problem with low voltage pendants over an island. I changed out a trany and the fixture worked but then the other one stopped working. I think there was a short in one fixture that caused all the erratic behavior. Why one pendant caused issues with the others was confusing and drove me nuts It was many years ago so I am not certain but I believe that was the answer. Don't ask me why cause I could not make sense of it at all.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I've dealt with those things too. 

Very poor idea. If those sleeves are not cut perfectly there are always problems. Sharp scissors seem to work the best when I'm forced to deal with those.


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