# Is there money in cabinet making?



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Here's the thing Melissa, nobody ever got anywhere without actually taking a risk. Wal-mart wouldn't be where it is if ole Sam hadn't decided to buy his first comb for 3 cents and sell it for 4 cents.

But if can't throw some capital at it you're pretty much doomed. If you can only shoe string this I would forget it. If you are figuring 8 grand, I'm betting it's more like 20 to get set up, (you're in CA, just dealing with the venting and electrical and safety issues I can see costing you $5K, and then you better not be in a position where you have to start turning a profit any sooner than 6 months. Because if you are it will force you to do all kinds of things that will be getting you over a short term hump but screwing you in the long term. Not a good way at all to be in business.

If you can get the cash flow to support the investment then I'm sure you will eventually find it was a good move for you. If you can't fund it properly then I would not even attempt it. I also would only go into it if it would still work with #1 his 'employee' that he is recommending walking out on you 3 months into it, or you having to fire him, and #2 continuing if you lost this guys cabinet business.

You don't have to be doing high end cabinetry to compete. My friend is a 3M rep and he services the Denver cabinetry market and it blows me away how many small cabinet shops there are.


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## scottstef (Dec 15, 2005)

don't mean to burst your bubble, but 8k for tools seems EXTREMELY low (orices are from grizzly's website):
$2500 for 1 cabinet saw, i would imagine you would want more than one to reduce set up time.
$1500 for a small industrial planer
$1000 for a small jointer
$4000 for an industrial shaper
$2000 for an industrial dust collector

top that off with shaper bits, blades, work benches, drill press, clamps, clamp racks/tables, a wharehouse large enough to do production runs, an epa friendly finishing area, plus the multitude of hand tools needed for this operation and you are looking for some start up costs.

not trying to burst your bubble, but if you check out the woodworking forums, this question gets posted quite often, and it is universally agreed that a small one man cabinet chop requires quite a but more money and tools to set up efficiently enough to make a profit when making custom cabinets. (unless you have super high end customers that are willing to wait for the one of type cabinets and super high costs that are associated with them.)

sorry to burst your bubble.


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## nadonailer (Nov 15, 2005)

I do a lot of the same type work as you, Melissa, and all high-end stuff. My cabinet guy is top-notch and I'll bet he has 50k+ invested in tools, easy! Plus, is your husband a good enough finish carpenter to build high end cabinets? I'm a decent carpenter, and I would never even consider getting into cabinets, they are soooo precise. Like someone else mentioned, you'll be competing with Home Depot a lot, and you can't do that, so the other option is high-end stuff, that requires a whole different approach. If you want to spend the time and money to focus primarily on cabinets, I'd say maybe, but as a sideline - no way. 

BTW, a 20' galley w/ maple would run 20k for real wood, at least.

Sounds like you're getting into something risky, I think you should stay with your niche and develop it more, leave the cabinets to a specialist....


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I decided to take this from another tack. How much would it take me to replicate what I currently have? I carry $200K ins. on just the machinery and that would just about cover the replacement. I have at least $50K of ricked wood in inventory, you don't just buy it and turn it into furniture. 
New wood has to be ricked and stored, often for a year or two before it can be worked. In my case, this adds up to about $5k a year and I have cheap storage.
Loss rates run about 20-25% due to bugs, checking, etc.

Are you sure that you want to jump into this arena? There's still more. We can talk about WC which is about the same as roofers or trying to find any sort of talent today.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

Just a couple of points. Guys have mentioned building solid wood cabinets and the tools involved in doing so. Unless you're doing work in a $1 million or more home, usually the boxes will be particle core and edge taped. So the need for full blown thickness planers and jointers is not necessary.

My friend works for a high end custom home builder and they build all their boxes in shop and order their doors and drawer fronts from a manufacturer (I think you said that was your plan Melissa). It works for him. He wouldn't keep his small shop running if it didn't make him money. Plus he didn't have to put the money out to buy the tools to do solid wood cabinets (and the drawer fronts and doors). He has one guy working in his shop building the actual cabinets and vanities and keeps him busy (and happy).

Just one other point, you talked about spending $3k on a cabinet saw. Your saw is the most important investment (and the most important tool). What you might consider (or what they call) a cabinet saw for $3k will give you a great industrial table saw and even though I do a lot of nice work with my $1k saw and outfeed table, the ultimate is a panel saw with a scoring blade. Will give you square chip free cutting but even for a small version will put you back at least $12k (I can't afford it) but if you get serious about the millwork, just something to consider!!!


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## widco (Jan 16, 2004)

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## snapper21 (Mar 13, 2006)

You need to basically answer that one for yourself by researching the demand in your area. I myself have switched from running around town doing jobs, to strictly staying at home building cabinet doors for a local cabinet maker. You need to see just how long this guy's jobs are going to last, then research where you go from there. Is there a market? Can you pick up custom developments? Is it worth what you're getting for them if your neighborhood has you competing with Lowe's? I am equalling, if not bettering what I made in the field, and I get the piece of mind of not dealing with HO's. Not to mention being at home with the family, which on some days can be a hinderance, but on most a blessing.
Cabinet's are my ultimate goal of career. I myself love working in the shop. You can stay deep in your own head, and really keep things rolling without any peripheral disturbances. Reminds me of scuba diving, where it's a quiet calm at all times. Let alone there's a great pat on the back I get from seeing a finished, detailed product.


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## TonyD (Aug 4, 2006)

Tom R said:


> To me, - - $8,000 sounds like about enough to get a wood-pile.
> 
> Do you have an edge-bander?? Boring machine?? Planer?? Shaper?? Dowel-shooter?? Drum-sander?? Vaccuum press?? Pneumatic shop set-up?? Dust collection system?? Fireproof storage cabs?? Local approval?? . .



Spray booth?? Fork lift?? Storage racks?? Delivery Van?? Slider saw?? Beam Saw?? CNC Router?? Case Clamp?? Jointer?? Line bore?? Hinge bore?? Const. Bore?? Door Clamp?? Table saw?? Panel Saw?? Correct Property Zoning??


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## Big Dave (Feb 23, 2006)

I pretty much agree with everyone else here but on the other hand I have seen it done. Just a couple of blocks from my house is a cabinet shop that started in a 2 car garage and now he is in a several thousand square foot building with all of the latest machinery. He did it, why couldn't you? It is a risk but the payoff could be great. I know of another cabinet shop who builds only one style of cabinet and he does great and basically only has a table saw, mitre saw, drills and other hand tools and he builds very high end cabinets. He has his own style and his son is a great finisher who can give them the aged look. Some of their cabinets start off with a paint base and after adding color and shading they look like a hundred year old peice of furniture. 

Just my thoughts, Dave.


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## snapper21 (Mar 13, 2006)

Big Dave said:


> I pretty much agree with everyone else here but on the other hand I have seen it done. Just a couple of blocks from my house is a cabinet shop that started in a 2 car garage and now he is in a several thousand square foot building with all of the latest machinery. He did it, why couldn't you? It is a risk but the payoff could be great. I know of another cabinet shop who builds only one style of cabinet and he does great and basically only has a table saw, mitre saw, drills and other hand tools and he builds very high end cabinets. He has his own style and his son is a great finisher who can give them the aged look. Some of their cabinets start off with a paint base and after adding color and shading they look like a hundred year old peice of furniture.
> 
> Just my thoughts, Dave.


Totally agree! Takes more time, care, and thought. But lesser tools can make a better cabinet than the ultimate setup.


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## geobushono (Oct 6, 2006)

*cabinet startup-custom res or comm'l*

Yes there is money in starting a cabinet shop.
How long is your lease?
How big is the shop? sq. ft.?...empty boxes take a lot of room.
Dustproof office?
You'll need more than one client or you're just an employee. Your job will be finding clients and service club lunches...Not a bad job.

There is better money in p-lam commercial work.....it can get very fancy and arty with Italian poplar etc.-and businesses are spending loads of big money on their project so their architects have already prepared them for the sticker shock. so you'll be dealing with professionals-architects/int. designers and not somebody who after installation thinks the stain on a door seems 'a little off'.
Look at the so. ca. market today.....Residential work is slowing down.
If you stick with p-lam you can skip most of the heavy machinery you'll need once you go to wood.
and finally, you will be able to teach your methods to any talented carpenter who wants to try his/her hand at cabinetmaking.
Good Luck.


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