# Adhesive for PVC Trim?



## Tylerb

Working an a gazebo that is going to have quite a bit of pvc trim work, what are you guys using for gluing up your miters? Found a couple specialty products on the certainteed website, but don't think they're available locally. Ill get a thread started showing some progress pics too, pretty sweet little job!


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## loneframer

Best thing to do is check with the manufacturer for their recommendation if you want them to honor their warranty.

Painting it anything darker than a shade of white may also be a warranty deal breaker.


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## Tylerb

Should have expected that answer haha. Guess I thought there would be one product that met some sort of ANSI rating and was accepted on all brands of pvc. Either way, found out from the boss today it will be certainteed, so we will use trimtight pvc cement.


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## TBFGhost

I just tried out OSI TeqBond....OMG that stuff is great. I am thinking it is just Chrities Red Hot, but its really good stuff, makes a strong bond.

http://www.osipro.com/products.pl?id=TEQBOND











*OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TeQ Bond™ PVC Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive* OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TEQ Bond™ - Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive, is specifically designed to adhere miter and scarf joints. It features a squeeze tube dispensing system for precise delivery of the adhesive to the joint without the mess. OSI® TEQ Bond's premium formula provides a permanent durable bond that prevents joint separation. The innovative formula provides gap filling capability and is water & weatherproof.


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## Tylerb

Thanks for another option. I think I will stick with the trim tight providing we can get our hands on some. I like the idea of following manufacturer specs, and the idea of a solvent weld rather than just an adhesive.


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## loneframer

I haven't found the magic bullet for scarf joint connections.

PVC is very prone to thermal movement and long runs need allowances for that movement. Even if the joints hold through a 12 month cycle, over time they will become problematic.

If I'm not mistaken, Mudpad did a project where they did a T&G type joint left free to expand and contract. I'd like to know how that stood the test of time.


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## loneframer

BTW, pics are welcome and you can also include them in CTs project forum.


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## TBFGhost

Tylerb said:


> Thanks for another option. I think I will stick with the trim tight providing we can get our hands on some. I like the idea of following manufacturer specs, and the idea of a solvent weld rather than just an adhesive.


It is a solvent weld....It smells like Model glue and when I finally was able to break the 45 degree scarf joint, you could see it melted the parts together.

I like the T and G idea...I personally would like to incorperate ways to allow Azek to expand and contract, but have all the movement happen at the ends and be hidden.


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## Kent Whitten

TBFGhost said:


> I just tried out OSI TeqBond....OMG that stuff is great. I am thinking it is just Chrities Red Hot, but its really good stuff, makes a strong bond.
> 
> http://www.osipro.com/products.pl?id=TEQBOND
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> *OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TeQ Bond™ PVC Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive* OSI® TRIMTeQ™ TEQ Bond™ - Miter & Scarf Joint Adhesive, is specifically designed to adhere miter and scarf joints. It features a squeeze tube dispensing system for precise delivery of the adhesive to the joint without the mess. OSI® TEQ Bond's premium formula provides a permanent durable bond that prevents joint separation. The innovative formula provides gap filling capability and is water & weatherproof.


We are working on a nice front porch right now and they sent this stuff out first and I too liked it alot. Bonds really good. On the side I made some column bases and used the two part Bond and Fill from another builder I work for. He says it's the shiznit. Violent fumes, holy cow it makes you high.


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## Warren

I needed this thread yesterday. Today I made up some Azek casing for a circle window. Two piece built up ring out of 1/2" sheet azek. Was afraid to use regular pvc cement because of the very short working time. I ended up using silicon and a few spots of pvc cement. What is the working time on that new stuff anyways?


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## loneframer

TBFGhost said:


> It is a solvent weld....It smells like Model glue and when I finally was able to break the 45 degree scarf joint, you could see it melted the parts together.
> 
> I like the T and G idea...I personally would like to incorperate ways to allow Azek to expand and contract, but have all the movement happen at the ends and be hidden.


IME, the solvent welded joints become the weak link. It won't break cleanly on the miter, but will break along one or both of the short points of the scarf with a jagged edge. Long runs are especially problematic.

I've seen 18' lengths expand and contract over 3/4" when painted a shade of light brown. Left white, maybe half that amount.

I'm in the process of doing some field experiments with fastening techniques to try to control the movement, but my guess is, over time, it'll work the fasteners and continue to move on it's own will.

I think the next thing I'll try is a half lap slip joint on long runs. reason being, a neat consistent gap will look much nicer than a jagged broken joint. In theory, each gap should maintain an even space throughout the range of temperatures, whether it be 0" or 3/8".


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## loneframer

Warren said:


> I needed this thread yesterday. Today I made up some Azek casing for a circle window. Two piece built up ring out of 1/2" sheet azek. Was afraid to use regular pvc cement because of the very short working time. I ended up using silicon and a few spots of pvc cement. What is the working time on that new stuff anyways?


Not sure on the open time. I am sure that it will be affected by temperature and exposure of the working pieces.

Something you may want to try for laminating is 3Ms 5200 marine sealant.:thumbsup:

http://www.3m.com/product/information/Marine-Fast-Cure-5200-Adhesive-Sealant.html


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## Tom Struble

i now recomend windsor one protected for fascia and frieze and other well protected long trim elements,flash well,prime the cuts get some good paint on it and it's durable enough and less problematic than pvc or composites

windows,door trim,water tables.. those i think pvc is better suited


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## superseal

Pretty good thought process there Tom... The Hurd job is all MiraTec fascia and water table and seems to be holding up pretty good. ( I'm assuming Windsor one is similar? ) Long lengths show no stress at the joints (no more than wood anyway) and definitely less movement than PVC)

I think the slip joint for PVC is probably the answer for the long lengths - although, I haven't really done any yet. 

The adhesive I'm using on the PVC window trim project, as some know, is Phenoseal. I had to loosen some casings the other day to slip in some capping and it was a bugger to remove. I laid a bead on the frame and at the miter/butt joints, then face and toe-screwed the ends. Hoping I don't get much movement with the shorter lengths.


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## TBFGhost

Tom Struble said:


> i now recomend windsor one protected for fascia and frieze and other well protected long trim elements,flash well,prime the cuts get some good paint on it and it's durable enough and less problematic than pvc or composites
> 
> windows,door trim,water tables.. those i think pvc is better suited


yeah, I too have been pushing Windsor One Plus Protected:thumbsup: that and Cypress


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## world llc

is christy's red hot no longer the go to adhesive?

i think it's versitex that has different adhesives with different open times for different applications. all will make a bond stronger than the pvc itself, they say...


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## loneframer

world llc said:


> is christy's red hot no longer the go to adhesive?
> 
> i think it's versitex that has different adhesives with different open times for different applications. all will make a bond stronger than the pvc itself, they say...


I still use it, but it is finicky. Very short open time and using it is voids any warranty claim in the future with some, if not all manufacturers.

Christy's is very aggressive and softens deeply into the material.

Personally, I don't think it matters what product you use, long runs will need room to move and if you don't provide this freedom, it will find a weak spot and use it. I've seen lengths that have broken in the field and not on the joint that was glued with Christy's. This was in a location that sees swings in temperature of 100 degrees through the seasons.


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## woodworkbykirk

i believe the new issue of fine homebuilding is featuring an article specifically about this topic, what adhesives to use, sealants to caulk it and proper fastening methods


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