# Spraying shellac primer, then latex though machine?



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I have only ever sprayed latex and latex primers through my machine, or any machine to be honest. I've only used oil/shellac primers in a spray can when I need to seal cedar trim, or spot prime.

I am finishing up a bid that is a 2,900 square foot house that has had cats and dogs and smokers in it for 30 years. My plan is to pull carpet and spray and backroll the entire house, floor, ceiling, walls, old linoleum, etc., with Zinsser 1-2-3 shellac primer. Then we are putting down latex and new floor coverings on top of that. Luckily, it is going on the market, so it will be all one color.

What do I have to do to clean out my machine after the shellac primer? Just run shellac thinner through it into a garbage can? Then run water through?

Also, how much prep do I need to do on these walls. If I'm running shellac, do I need to TSP substitute them? Can I just patch, knock the dust off and go?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Shellac is an alcohol based material, and will clean up easily with denatured alcohol. But I would be careful in spraying a large project with shellac. You will be subjecting a large atmosphere with the flammable and poisonous material methanol. You could easily poison yourself or make a bomb of your job-site


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I use to do a little fire repair and we would use oil base Kilz and we only sprayed attics and basement ceilings and we would cut and roll ceilings and walls. 
The fumes from shellac are hard on the eyes but you have to wear hooded suit with risperator and goggles
I would go with oil base over the shellac your pump will be easier to clean out just run turps threw it until it runs clear then flush with water, with shellac in your lines and pump packing if you don't get it cleaned out real good the latex paint you spray will gum up on you. Good Luck


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

Never sprayed a large project like that before, but I'd have to agree that spraying that much shellac would be an invitation for a whole bunch of problems.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

I think you could get poisoned thru your skin


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

As far as cleaning out the spraying just run denatured alcohol through it. Chase the alcohol out with water and then do what you normally do from there. 

As far as spraying shellac, shut down all pilot lights and any other possible ingition sources. Suit up well. 
Good luck.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I hadn't thought of that. Is a regular oil primer going to lock in smoke and pet stains and odors as well? What are your thoughts on rolling the shellac out? Less problems or the same?

Is the B-I-N 2 sealer as good at blocking odors. I'm looking at the specs and the Shellac based formula has a flash point of 54F, and the 2 has a flash point of 104 degrees. Big difference. I think I will propose the 2 for most of the job and spot prime trouble areas, pee stains, nicotine stains etc., with the shellac. Does that sound like a better plan?


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

VinylHanger said:


> I hadn't thought of that. Is a regular oil primer going to lock in smoke and pet stains and odors as well? What are your thoughts on rolling the shellac out? Less problems or the same?
> 
> Is the B-I-N 2 sealer as good at blocking odors. I'm looking at the specs and the Shellac based formula has a flash point of 54F, and the 2 has a flash point of 104 degrees. Big difference. I think I will propose the 2 for most of the job and spot prime trouble areas, pee stains, nicotine stains etc., with the shellac. Does that sound like a better plan?


The shellac will get tack up too fast to spray and backroll. I've never been a fan of spraying- backrolling, it defeats the reason for having a labor saving airless sprayer IMO. I once sprayed out an old house interior with BIN , even using a dual filter respirator, after an hour or so, I was about to pass out. 

A 50-50 mix of water and ammonia can be used to clean out your airless after spraying BIN, cheaper than denatured alcohol.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Well, I can't find the BIN2 locally. Any suggestions on a good oil odor blocking primer that won't kill me?


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

The Shellac will seal out all the pet odors and stains really well, its great stuff. It is thin and rolls on quickly, I wouldn't spray it. 
An alternative is the oil base Problock from SW, but it don't think it is as good as it used to be.
You really can't go wrong with original oil base Kilz. Avoid any of the other Kilz products as they are junk.


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## Pete'sfeets (Mar 20, 2011)

I used the odorless primer oil based and it worked pretty good for me, the stucco was a nice cheerful paperbag brown. I had two choices , the cheap kilz line or the madly pricey Zinsser line, both were OK but I was paranoid so I bought more of the Zinsser one. It dried quickly enough to do two coats, say an hour, I left it as a finished coat, the customers were 80 year old smokers and I didn't want to poison them but I would opt for the odorless next time. I think it a good plan to save the BIN for the severe stuff. One time I sprayed it on spindles, I arrived at 5pm shellac prime and then went to finish coat , got homebound by ten, used the mini pro shot sprayer because it's small and there's less fluid wasted on cleaning. spray a whole house ? too much anxiety for me .


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

If you are going to spray the shellac, rent a sprayer. The shellac will tear up your sprayer. I talked with a fire resto company that's sprays shellac all the time. They quit buying sprayers. It was tearing them up. Let that abuse fall on a rental.

As far as the fumes, plenty of fresh air exchange needs to happen. Like said before, no pilot lights, smokers, etc. I would turn off all non-essential breakers. Get a very good respirator!!! Take breaks and get fresh air outside.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

VinylHanger said:


> Well, I can't find the BIN2 locally. Any suggestions on a good oil odor blocking primer that won't kill me?


Any non-slow drying petroleum based stain killer will do fine. On bad areas, you might want to mist coat a section at a time first, let it tack up , then go back over it. You could even to do the whole job that way. That will prevent the primer sliding off really badly coated built up areas trying to one coat it.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Like this? Clean with TSP, then killz 2 original 2 coats, then paint as normal. The Tsp will make the walls clean enough for the killz to stick. I put a double coat to ensure no bleedthrough.

Save that expensive ass binz for other jobs.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Driftweed said:


> View attachment 92177
> 
> 
> Like this? Clean with TSP, then killz 2 original 2 coats, then paint as normal. The Tsp will make the walls clean enough for the killz to stick. I put a double coat to ensure no bleedthrough.
> ...


The OP will have to assess the level of build up and go from there.
If some surfaces are really sticky with gunk from, say, cooking fumes, than yes, he has to address that. Spraying over gunk with any paint can lead to job disaster. 

If he washes the really bad gunky areas, he can use Killz 2 twice. Latex=more washing time=easier to spray. If he wants to wash less...than oil or shellac primer=less washing time=more messy to spray=possible failure. 

For estimating purposes, it about equals out, time wise (except for potential failure not washing bad areas). I try and go latex whenever I spray. Washing down surfaces is a drag tho. Latex Bullseye123 is better than latex Kilz 2 (but costs more). If spraying latex Bullseye123, that stuff will run and sag spraying on enamel surfaces, so use the mist coat method.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

:thumbsup:


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Paul has no qualms spraying non-latex primers. :thumbup: :laughing:

Paul might be the kind to spray oil primer thruout an old 1940's palmer style house and forgo the washing-spraying latex primer twice, and have equal success. It all depends on the residue buildup on surfaces to be sprayed.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I went ahead and put Original Kilz on the proposal. There isn't a lot of buildup, just a lot of smell. Of course, there are also no interior lights in most of the rooms, so maybe it's better I don't know how bad it is yet. Hopefully, I'll find out.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

VinylHanger said:


> Thanks everyone. I went ahead and put Original Kilz on the proposal. There isn't a lot of buildup, just a lot of smell. Of course, there are also no interior lights in most of the rooms, so maybe it's better I don't know how bad it is yet. Hopefully, I'll find out.


Contracts I make these days, I leave off the technical details on a contract. It's my job to produce. I word it appropriately. I spell out in the contract what I'm going to accomplish , not how I'm going to do it. That's up to me.

However, I remember trying to impress customers with my proposals years ago and getting technical as to every phase in order to impress them with my proposal, being very specific and all. Today, I word my customers up on what's going to be accomplished (total satisfaction),not so much how I'm gonna get there. Breathing room for me


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Caslon said:


> Contracts I make these days, I leave off the technical details on a contract. It's my job to produce. I word it appropriately. I spell out in the contract what I'm going to accomplish , not how I'm going to do it. That's up to me.
> 
> However, I remember trying to impress customers with my proposals years ago and getting technical as to every phase in order to impress them with my proposal, being very specific and all. Today, I word my customers up on what's going to be accomplished (total satisfaction),not so much how I'm gonna get there. Breathing room for me


This wasn't trying to impress anyone. It was understood when I went in I would list and break down everything. Hard costs, Sub costs, my fees, allowances and what products would be used, etc,. I don't normally do that, but when in Rome.


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