# Livid!



## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

I came to this tonight, some heads are gonna roll tommorow! see email correspondence:

Hi XXXXX,

Shortly after talking to you this evening I arrived at the house to drop off my trailer and supplies. It appears that the outfit working in your kitchen decided to use my deck as their work station/trash can. There is no certificate of occupancy issued for that deck leaving me at great liability. The mess that was made can and probably will stain the deck, not to mention any scratches or gouges that these guys may have made. I just wanted to make it very clear that I will not lose time or be doing any remedial work as a result of this mess, any issues arising as a result need to be addressed with the kitchen guys and their insurance, not me. I hope these "professionals" clean up their mess. Feel free to contact me anytime. 
Sincerely, 
Chris Kadyszewski 

484-xxx-0458 - phone

www.customdecksandcarpentry.com


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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:50:21 -0500


Chris
Looks incredible. Thanks. Can't wait to see them at the deck.
How do you envision the color for them? Will you paint?
It will get the Trex rails and balusters, correct?

See you soon


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Unbelievable! That guy's got some nads.:w00t: :no:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

That's freaking brilliant I applaud your restraint from not picking up that MK and tossing it 20 feet into the back yard. Scary thing is how can that lack of sense not show up on the work they are doing for your homeowner?


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> I applaud your restraint from not picking up that MK and tossing it 20 feet into the back yard.


Belive me, come morning, that saw is toast! Then I'm calling the inspector, then I'm gonna find out who this hack is!


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

So that's the plan, vandalize their equipment?


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

Plan 9 said:


> So that's the plan, vandalize their equipment?


No, I'm gonna get that $H!T the F#@K Out of my way so I can work, and the EASIEST way for me to do that is pretty much as Mike described.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Bone, I'm liking you more by the minute. FTW and die!


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## Mr. D (Jun 7, 2006)

those pics are making me angry with those tile guys too!


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

I dont think I could go there tomorrow... I think I would kill someone. How stupid do you have to be to do that? 

BTW I have seen this before... Not on as nice a deck as yours. But a builder I was working for had the same thing happen to him. Deck did not have rails yet and moron is out there spashing tile water all over the redwood deck.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Sweden @ Greenland? Kinda diverse, eh? Been to Greenland a few times, never made it to Sweden. IMHO, Icelandic woman tend to be the most beautiful, Norwegians make the best wives. Just had a friend married to one, very happy!


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## DesPro (Nov 2, 2006)

Those tile guys must have been the low bidder. Totally unprofessional. BTW What kind of moron would leave a wet saw set out anyhow?


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

You should let some "undesirable" people know where that wet saw is... Then he will be out a wet saw as well as having a beating on order. If that happened to me... Man I would charge that insurance company through the roof... Same price as it was to build the deck to begin with.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

DesPro said:


> Those tile guys must have been the low bidder. Totally unprofessional. BTW What kind of moron would leave a wet saw set out anyhow?


Ironic that you mention that, between my deck, a vanishing edge pool and a huge cobblestone paver patio going in real soon, this guy must have 120k+ just going into his backyard When I pulled up tonight to unload my trailer there was a couple of raggamuffins getting into an old beat up looking isuzu trooper out in the driveway, my guess is it must be some people from toll doing some warrenty stuff???


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

RobertCDF said:


> You should let some "undesirable" people know where that wet saw is... Then he will be out a wet saw as well as having a beating on order. If that happened to me... Man I would charge that insurance company through the roof... Same price as it was to build the deck to begin with.


The reason I was even taking my trailer over tonight was that there is 20 80lb bags of crete in it that are getting mixed and poured at the crack of dawn so I can get these curved stairs in place. Whatever's left in the mixer and wheelbarrow tommorow is getting dumped on that saw whereever it lies after getting tossed off my deck!


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

Bone Saw said:


> I came to this tonight, some heads are gonna roll tommorow! see email correspondence:
> 
> Hi XXXXX,
> 
> ...


 
Hey Chris nice to see you back first off, Dude just show up with the vein in your neck popped out, I am sure he will get the point and then backcharge the other guys for all damages to your deck, If you stated anything regarding your cert of occupancy. YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

Bone Saw said:


> The reason I was even taking my trailer over tonight was that there is 20 80lb bags of crete in it that are getting mixed and poured at the crack of dawn so I can get these curved stairs in place. Whatever's left in the mixer and wheelbarrow tommorow is getting dumped on that saw whereever it lies after getting tossed off my deck!


Take the plug apart and wire it backwards dude.


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## soxfan (Aug 2, 2005)

I should point out that any self respecting Tile setter is intimately familiar with the damage a Wetsaw(even a crappy little MK) can do to the floor or even ground underneath it. These guys are probably out of work carpenters with nothing but a saw and a big bucket of Mastic.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Is it even normal to do your wet sawing hunkered down on your knees? I've never seen anyone using a wet saw on the ground (or deck, in this case). Makes me think they didn't even have the extra 50 bucks or whatever for the stand.


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## all vinyl (Apr 2, 2004)

it's amazing just when you think you saw it all
:furious:


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

WOW!!! You guys are a tuff crowd.:sad: 

I don't disagree with anything and by the way, the saw stand costs $75 for that saw. The saw-soup won't hurt anything and it WILL clean up under most circumstances even on redwood. Somebodies got some scrubbing to do.

If I were involved in trying to enforce a remedy to this problem I would quietly take the saw and hide it. If they are foolish enough to go away and leave it then they must not care about their exposure to theft. Hide and know nothing about it and let the **** fly for a while. Then chew ass and give it back to them with their first and final warning.

Lack of respect for another persons property is inexcuseable but flying in their faces isn't going to do anything but escalate the problem.

Shake 'em up for a while. Let them first clean the deck back to its original condition before they screwed it up, then if the saw must be on the deck let them but a tarp and protect the property from their mess before they get the saw back.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

The 1 X 4 at waist height was suggested as an inconvienience if fire egress is required. You can't step over it and it's tough to duck under all day, you can still get out if there is a fire though.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> -at best he shouldn't be setting up his tools on another project that is still in progress.
> 
> if you can argue with any of that, I just don't get it.


It's all about showing consideration and respect for a fellow tradesman.
It was blatant disrespect to just take over someone elses worksite for your own convenience. I'm sure the tile guy wouldn't have been too happy if Bone set up his saws in the kitchen or walked across the floor before the tiles set up and pushed them out of alignment.
The tile guy just has the attitude of "The world revolves around me".


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Who's in charge.In the ol' days we had GC's and supers to coordinate the trades.This is the fault of the homeowner trying to save a buck.Cutting corners and hiring the lowest bidder.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

tkle said:


> Who's in charge.In the ol' days we had GC's and supers to coordinate the trades.This is the fault of the homeowner trying to save a buck.Cutting corners and hiring the lowest bidder.


I HIGHLY doubt the HO is building the ENTIRE HOUSE. I dont know for sure. But I think he is just RENOVATING. BIG differance. Maybe around you a GC would do this. But around me trades get out and advertise to HO's to get to do renovation work. A lot of GC's are not interested in cordinating just a deck guy, landscaper, and a tile guy. There would not be enough profit to deal with those few a trades. 

Now if the HO is the acting GC then the situation is a little differant. Let us know witch one it is Bone ok?

BTW if you looked at that deck you would be able to tell that there is no way they are hiring tthe lowest bidder. 

Hey Bone were you the lowest bidder on doing a deck for those people?


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

RobertCDF said:


> BTW if you looked at that deck you would be able to tell that there is no way they are hiring tthe lowest bidder.


It is a very nice deck and it is quite apparent that the man takes great care and pride in what he does.Makes me think he should raise his prices.

When more then one trade is involved someone has to coordinate and someone has to be ultimitly responsible.In this case it sounds like it comes down to the homeowner.
The trades have to work together.Bone saw it as trampling on his work.In this case the guys were pigs.As a tile person I might see it as a partially completed deck left to block my access to the job.Setting my saw out another door might increase my liability by making it accessable to kids or whomever.I might also be forced to trample over new carpet.I have a certain time alloted for the job,plus the homeowner wants me done and out of the way so the next trade can come in at their alloted time.I'm sorry but the job doesn't revolve around the deck,it's the other way around.


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## C.C.R. (May 19, 2006)

Bud, you may have gone to one too many Anger management classes.
This guy is in the middle of building the H.O. this beatiful deck for his back yard and these knuckleheads come and ruin it. Whether or not the mess will clean completely off is not the point. The deck isn't done no one should be on it without his express permission. At very least I wouldn't even let him clean it. Have the H.O. hire a professional cleaning crew at an astronimical price and back-charge the tile guy. And why in the world would he let him continue to use the deck as a work station, even with a tarp? This Tile guy has no respect for others. Also take these photos, put the tile company's name on them along with an appropriate caption like: "gaurenteed to ruin your home." And show them to everyone you come in contact with. Nothing pi$$es me off more than someone F---ing with my work. Especialy if it's not done. STAY THE F--- OFF MY WORK!!! Speaking from experiance, don't touch him or his tools. guys like this are usualy the first to run to the cops. No Fun!


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

C.C.R. said:


> Bud, you may have gone to one too many Anger management classes.
> This guy is in the middle of building the H.O. this beatiful deck for his back yard and these knuckleheads come and ruin it. Whether or not the mess will clean completely off is not the point. The deck isn't done no one should be on it without his express permission. At very least I wouldn't even let him clean it. Have the H.O. hire a professional cleaning crew at an astronimical price and back-charge the tile guy. And why in the world would he let him continue to use the deck as a work station, even with a tarp? This Tile guy has no respect for others. Also take these photos, put the tile company's name on them along with an appropriate caption like: "gaurenteed to ruin your home." And show them to everyone you come in contact with. Nothing pi$$es me off more than someone F---ing with my work. Especialy if it's not done. STAY THE F--- OFF MY WORK!!! Speaking from experiance, don't touch him or his tools. guys like this are usualy the first to run to the cops. No Fun!


I totally agree the guys were pigs,but why were they able to work as long as they did without being noticed?Why was nobody there working on the deck when it was not completed and in an unsafe condition?Why was their access blocked?All of these things should have been adressed before starting the deck.


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## C.C.R. (May 19, 2006)

tkle said:


> I totally agree the guys were pigs,but why were they able to work as long as they did without being noticed?Why was nobody there working on the deck when it was not completed and in an unsafe condition?Why was their access blocked?All of these things should have been adressed before starting the deck.


Well only Bonesaw can answer those questions. But here are some options:
the tile crew was there on a weekend
Bone saw was waiting on materials
wheather
personal emergency
etc.
As far as their access being blocked that's because the deck wasn't finished. I don't know about you but if I or my crew goes on a job and sees something with caution tape on it I/we stay the F--- off of it.
If I absolutely can't live without going on it then I track down someone that has the autority (i.e. Bonesaw) to let me on the deck.
I think what Bonesaw is trying to get across is that until "signed off" you own your work. That includes any liabilities i.e. tile crew falling off.
and breaking a leg. And everyone that hold their money and good name dear to their hearts should take notice.
Plus it's just not cool.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

tkle said:


> I totally agree the guys were pigs,but why were they able to work as long as they did without being noticed?Why was nobody there working on the deck when it was not completed and in an unsafe condition?Why was their access blocked?All of these things should have been adressed before starting the deck.


Ok... Just guessing here so dont shoot me.

HO's probably Called Bone in and said "Go ahead and build the deck you designed for us" And he said "Ok, sign this, give me this check... etc etc." Then one day he shows up to the tile mess... Did he know the tilers would be coming? Maybe, maybe not. I have been working on peoples decks before and I hear some noise/tools in the front and wonder what is going on. I walk around front and the garage door is being replaced... Does this affect me? No did the HO tell me? No. because it has NOTHING to do with a DECK. Why would they tell me? I would not care it would just be one more thing wasting space in my brain. 
HO thinking well I want to retile my INDOOR kitchen has nothing to do with my deck guy... I will just move forward with it. I would do the same and I am sure many others would as well. 

As to why no one was there to stop them... How many times have you been given a key to someones house to start while they are at work or on a long weedend vacation? I have been offered keys and garage codes MANY times and I work outside only. 

So here is what I am thinking happened... Lets say Thursday Bone works on deck setting stairs and what not. Friday - Monday he has shop work to do for the other stairs. So he will NOT be on the job FRI-MON. He tells the HO. And they say "No prob we are going out of town for a little vacation. We will see you on tuesday" Meanwhile tile guys show up fri morn and start working... Who is supposed to stop them from setting up on the deck? You would think common sense would come into play here.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

Bone Saw said:


> I am contracting this job with the HO, Unless you are either myself, the inspector, an employee of mine covered by WC and/or exempt due to religious reasons or the HO under my sole discression than you have zero buisness on the deck period.





Bone Saw said:


> I cut a stick to keep the sliding door shut, put yellow caution tape across the door, and keep my miter saw stand right in front of the door. there are an infinitum number of places for someone to do their work, *my* deck is not one of them.





Bone Saw said:


> I have zero issues communicating and enforcing this considering there are kids and pets around at all times, not to mention a pool and patio outfit getting ready to break ground who have been a pleasure to work alongside. This is an isolated instance where someone (tile guy) didn't assume, but blatently took the liberty to conduct his buisness as he saw fit, with total disregaurd, putting *ME* at risk period.





tkle said:


> As a tile person I might see it as a partially completed deck left to block my access to the job.*Setting my saw out another door might increase my liability *by making it accessable to kids or whomever.I might also be forced to trample over new carpet.


I seriously doubt this deck was ever blocking anyones access to begin with


tkle said:


> Why was nobody there working on the deck when it was not completed





RobertCDF said:


> So here is what I am thinking happened... Lets say Thursday Bone works on deck setting stairs and what not. Friday - Monday he has shop work to do for the other stairs. So he will NOT be on the job FRI-MON. He tells the HO. And they say "No prob we are going out of town for a little vacation. We will see you on tuesday" Meanwhile tile guys show up fri morn and start working... Who is supposed to stop them from setting up on the deck? You would think common sense would come into play here.





Bone Saw said:


> I just wanted to make it very clear that I will not lose time or be doing any remedial work as a result of this mess, any issues arising as a result need to be addressed with the kitchen guys and their insurance, not me.





Bone Saw said:


> My advice to him this morning was to not pay these guys, sue them for the damages.





tkle said:


> It is a very nice deck and it is quite apparent that the man takes great care and pride in what he does.Makes me think he should raise his prices.


You calling me a lowballer now, tell me how much money i'm leaving on the table, I was wondering why i'm so busy and broke all the time 


Nothing against you tkle, you've allowed me to use you as an example to get my point across.



It truley is amazing, the vast difference in reading comprehension and contracting knowledge that members who've participated in this thread posess (or in some cases do not posess). This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing, because the core of why I even posted this to begin with with is "cut and dry". I can only hope that an inkling of what I've posted and what was substantiated upon by some intelligent posters "in the know" can prevent some other members, possibly less "in the know" from making similar fatal mistakes.:thumbsup:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I'm wondering - if we were in the middle of one of our jobs and had the toilet removed, and another tradesman, say the cable guy showed up to install a cable box, it would be okay for him to come into our bathroom remodel and take a dump on the floor while we were gone, right?


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## Luke's Dad (Aug 29, 2005)

*and the outcome was.....*

Hey Bone Saw, what was the final outcome of this lack of respect for you and your deck? Have you talked to the tile guys? Did they give you a reason (or an excuse) for working on your deck and also not cleaning up at the end of the day? Did the deck get properly cleaned? How have the HO's been since this happened?

Just wondering!


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

Luke's Dad said:


> Hey Bone Saw, what was the final outcome of this lack of respect for you and your deck?


TBD, probably broke tile guy getting sued


Luke's Dad said:


> Have you talked to the tile guys?


never met em


Luke's Dad said:


> Did they give you a reason (or an excuse) for working on your deck and also not cleaning up at the end of the day?


never met em


Luke's Dad said:


> Did the deck get properly cleaned? How have the HO's been since this happened?


No, and pissed


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

This sort of thing has happened to me a million times. We'll come and drill holes, go for lunch, or to pick up concrete, whatever, and come back to find the landscapers or pool company or sprinkler guys or the neighbourhood dogs have filled the holes for almost any reason known to man. 
We'll set posts and come back the next day only to find the HO was "testing" the concrete and didn't striaghten the post afterwards, or the landscaper knocked a post over or somebody drove their ATV into it and cracked it (after the concrete set)
.
Often we;ll put in footings at the urging of the HO or the builder before the landscapers come in, and then have the grader run over the footings.

This year we left some material on site, tucked around the side of the house, when we left. The deck was unfinished, but we had agreed to wait a couple of weeks while the landscapers came in to do their thing. It was only a couple of hundred dollars worth of cedar, but when I returned to the site 3 weeks later (the landscapers were 5 weeks on site), they had used ALL of our material to form concrete. When I complained to the landscaper, he apologized, but basically said f-you when I asked to be re-imbursed. The homeowner was sympathetic, but disputes between trades "wasn't his problem".

What do you do? We suck it up and just get on with the job.
What else can you do?


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

Stone Mountain said:


> This sort of thing has happened to me a million times. We'll come and drill holws, go for lunch, or to pick up concrete, whatever, and come back to find the landscapers or pool company or sprinkler guys or the neighbourhood dogs have filled the holes for almost any reason known to man.
> We'll set posts and come back the next day only to find the HO was "testing" the concrete and didn't striaghten the post afterwards, or the landscaper knocked a post over or somebody drove their ATV into it and cracked it (after the concrete set)
> .
> Often we;ll put in footings at the urging of the HO or the builder, and then have the grader run over the footings.
> ...


this is exactly why I do not sub


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Bone Saw said:


> I seriously doubt this deck was ever blocking anyones access to begin with
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess I'm not an "intelligent poster in the know",though I am out there in the real world.There are many scenerios for why they were out on the deck.In some cases it could be the deck guys fault for holding up access to the job.I'm not going to stop my job because of someone else's lack of dilligence.In your case it looks like it was because of some lazy tile people.However,you do not"own" the work.It is the on the owners property and belongs to them.If you took the proper steps and left the job in a safe condition,you are not liable.
Unless there were change orders there should be no reason to be back in the shop for a week fabricating what should have been ready to start with.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

tkle said:


> I guess I'm not an "intelligent poster in the know",though I am out there in the real world.There are many scenerios for why they were out on the deck.In some cases it could be the deck guys fault for holding up access to the job.I'm not going to stop my job because of someone else's lack of dilligence.In your case it looks like it was because of some lazy tile people.However,you do not"own" the work.It is the on the owners property and belongs to them.If you took the proper steps and left the job in a safe condition,you are not liable.


like I said see post #53:thumbsup: 


tkle said:


> Unless there were change orders there should be no reason to be back in the shop for a week fabricating what should have been ready to start with.


Thanx for the tip, I'll try to remember that next time I build helical stairs:thumbsup:


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

I wasn't going to comment here anymore but I have changed my mind. The longer this thread runs the bigger waste of time it becomes.

When I first posted, it was only after someone had suggested the tileguys were morons, the tile guys were idiots, the tileguys were hacks. Even "subcontractors" were being referred to as if they were second class citizens.

Someone suggested their wetsaw should be thrown twenty feet, someone else suggested the power cord should be rewired backwards to damage the saw.

It was at this point I suggested taking the saw and hiding it long enough to get the attention of the tileguys. I then went on to say to "chew ass and give it back to them".

Hell someone else even criticised the tileguys for not using a saw stand. Who cares?

After my statement someone accused me of saying I thought the saw should be stolen. I never said that. Not even close!

My initial comments were actually in support of Bone Saw and his frustration with the situation.

No one but Bone Saw is there to know the real circumstances first hand and Bone Saw's participation in the project wasn't at all clear in his early posts. Hell at first I thought HE WAS the GC on the job thereby giving him the authority to management the infraction.

Now I see a few sensible comments but I also see just as many hot-headed suggestions that won't and don't resolve anything. Hell I don't come here to bicker and argue, if I wanted to do that, I'd approach my children. I come here to learn and benefit from being here and maybe just maybe I will from time to time have something beneficial to offer a few. Of course I realize some people here already know everything there is to know and would never benefit from anything I have to offer. I was a GC for seventeen years and have been a subcontrator/GC for thirteen years beyond that, and I've seen all of this crap before, many many times.

There is no good answer but all the cussin' and threats won't do anything but escalate an already bad situation.

OK now I'm going to shut up again, but I go away resting assured that someone will mis-interpret these comments and take issue with what I've said and my comments will appear in quotes time and time again flaming me for not my contribution but instead my participation.

If I were the Moderator here I would have closed this thread a long time ago.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Bud, your post was to the point! EXCEPT "the bigger waste of time", it is really entertaining how several people view the same thing several different ways. It is also interesting to see how they will argue their point without the others saying that they were wrong.....has anyone here or elsewhere ever held an on-line argument that they have won?
It's like 2 blind people fighting over what color shirt a guy is wearing 500 miles away, on-line entertainment. Not a waste of time.


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

It's just some think that they're the only trade on the job.


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