# Do NOT Buy Vinotemp Winecellar Products!



## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

I recently installed a Vinotemp Cooling Unit in a winecellar I was building. I'm here to warn everyone NOT to make the same mistake I made. 

Until this wine cellar, I hadn't even heard of Vinotemp but my client was browsing on the Internet and found this one particular unit that he liked very much. I wasn't crazy about installing a brand I wasn't familiar with but hey if that's what the customer wants I'll give it to them. After all, I didn't see anything alarming on the website that said they were anything but professionals and it certainly wasn't the cheapest product out there so I thought "what could go wrong". 

Well, that was until the delivery date came. Yep it was about 10 days late arriving and it's cover was all scratched up. So I called my supplier who dealt with Vinotemp trying to get this cover replaced. It took about 2 1/2 weeks for Vinotemp to finally agree to replace the cover....but the catch was they wouldn't send me the new one until I sent them the old one. Well by this time we were putting the finishing touches on the winecellar so that was a bit inconvenient for our client because he wanted to start using his winecellar (the unit won't run without the cover, the controls are attached to it). I was able to work it out with the client but of course the client wanted to hold back a couple thousand dollars until I got the new cover. 

So I sent the cover back and expected the new one in about a week. Yeah right, so I started calling them every day. I was promised a return call with the updated status.  Apparently at Vinotemp they don't believe in returning calls. After another 2 weeks of this (3 weeks total) they tell me they are sending me the new cover. When I get it, I can tell instantly that this was the same cover, they just tried to buff out the scratches (it's stainless steel). Oh , now what do I do. It doesn't look awful but I know it's not new and I promised my client a new cover. At this point my client is getting impatient, he wants his winecellar working and I want my money. So I decide to take the cover to the client, show it to them, and let them make the determination. After all they are the ones that wanted to use Vinotemp despite my hesitation to do so. Well, luckily he decided that it probably wasn't going to get any better and didn't hold me responsible for it so he paid up, I was complete, everyone was happy right?

Well after about a week, the client calls and complains and says his cooling unit is making a high pitch noise. He said it was so loud that he had to shut off the unit so that he a friend could play pool in the room next door. So immediately my HVAC guy and I head down there to see what the problem is. We turn it on and it wasn't as loud as it was the night before but it was definitely not normal. We start checking everything to make sure nothing is loose. We are able to locate the noise to the solenoid valve area. I call Vinotemp and try to tell them what the problem is, they pass off from one person to the next but apparently nobody there is familiar with a split system . 

Finally the engineer gets on the phone and I can't understand a word that he is saying. His name was Hamil if that helps you any. So I describe the problem to him and he says oh you need a new solenoid valve. Yep that's pretty much what I thought, but the catch is that means the whole coil needs to be replaced. So he says he's going to send me a new coil. A week later I get a package in the mail, open it up and all they sent me was the electromagnetic controls for the valve. :furious: What the hell? So I talk to them again and they say this will take care of the problem. So we head back down there to install this new part. Nope no luck that didn't change a thing. 

So at this point, I'm mad but not furious. So I call them again, try to talk to Hamil again, and he says that the coil needs to be replaced. No sh*t, that's what you said last time (at least I think that's what you said). He says he will tell his manager and she will call me. I said can't I just talk to your manager right now. No she's not in the office today. OK fine. 

The next day comes and goes no call. The following day I call and ask for his manager. She finally gets on the phone, and acts like she has no idea what I'm talking about so I have to tell her the whole story again. She puts me on hold to go talk to Hamil, and comes back and says ok she knows what part I need but it's not in stock they are going to have to order it. Then she asks me if she can call me back. :w00t: I said NO WAY! I haven't received one single return phone call from anyone there after leaving at least a dozen different messages, I said I will hold. I wait on hold for 30 minutes while she is supposedly calling her supplier. She finally gets back on the line and says I'm on hold with the supplier, would you like to continue to hold or can I call you back. At this time I'm fuming that I have been on hold for this long, but she promised many times that she would call me back so I agreed. 3 hours later she calls back and gets my voicemail, "well, I wasn't able to reach the supplier today so I'll try again tomorrow and let you know but I promised I would call you back so here it is". Gee thanks, that helps. 

That was on Monday, so I've been busy this week and really haven't had time to deal with it but I call again today (Thursday) and of course Amanda the manager is busy and can't take my call. "Would you like to leave a message?" Oh I BLEW UP! FINAL STRAW! IT"S ON!

Then the secretary starts being a smart ass with me, well send back the old evaporator coil and we will send you a new one. YEAH I HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE. So then I demand to speak with as high up as I can go, that's when this real bimbo named Diane gets on the phone claiming to be the boss but she refused to give me her title. 

I couldn't get two words in edge wise without her interrupting me with "You have two options, you can send us the old one and then we will send you the new one or you can send us $1,100 and we will send you a new evaporator coil". When I told her to stop interrupting me and let me speak, she didn't say a word to the point where I had to repeatedly say "hello" and she proudly says "I thought you didn't want me to speak". Seriously, are we in third grade now. So I ask did you hear me. That's when she repeated the company line "You have two options, you can send us the old one and then we will send you the new one or you can send us $1,100 and we will send you a new evaporator coil".

Well, to wrap this up. I blew my top today. I think my heart actually stopped for a minute my blood pressure was so high. Bottom line, is Vinotemp is a company that does NOT stand behind their products. They don't have technicians that know their products on the phone or in the field to help better serve you. Their customer service is amongst the worst I have ever dealt with and if you decide to buy any of their products you are taking a huge risk. There are many reputable companies out there selling better products at similar or better prices. There is no good reason to buy from Vinotemp and I'm not just talking about their wine cooling units but their wine racks and wine coolers as well. It's just not worth it dealing with their customer service. 

Two thumbs down for Vinotemp. Buyer beware!


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

If the project is a small walk-in cooler, try cool-bot. 

I built a walk in beer cooler this last year for a private club. The thing works great.


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## FthillGuy (Jun 22, 2009)

OGStilts said:


> I was able to work it out with the client but of course the client wanted to hold back a couple thousand dollars until I got the new cover.


Seems to me that if they wanted THAT particular product, they should own up to some of the responsibility. 

AND NOT HOLD MONEY BACK for something that isn't your fault.

:furious:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yup, that is some bull snot.

Reminds me of the time I beat the crap out of a faulty ceiling fan (60" fan, massive lights and hung from 14' cathedral ceilings).
When I got it back in the box and taped up, it made an odd sound.

Now, if you want something odd or that you spec, that I am not familiar with, find an installer just for that. I don't want any resposibility.

Someone needs to go fly a kite.


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

The hold back was a bit excessive but I don't mind making a client feel reassured that I will come back and finish the project as long as I have a good feeling that I will get paid when it's done. This client was very good about paying up to that point and I certainly didn't expect it to take 3 weeks to get a new cover so I didn't think it would be a big deal. When I did get the cover and installed it, I was paid in full on the spot. My problem is that Vinotemp has no respect for it's customers and don't care what their inefficiencies cost us in money, time, or good will with our customers.

Vinotemp's only care is about their bottom line. This is not the type of company any contractor wants to work with.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

I sent them an e-mail, this shold get interesting


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## JSC (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks for this posting. I've been pondering a wine cellar for my son for a couple of years, and get regular emails from Vinotemp. 

Mind if I send them a copy of your experience?


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

JSC said:


> Thanks for this posting. I've been pondering a wine cellar for my son for a couple of years, and get regular emails from Vinotemp.
> 
> Mind if I send them a copy of your experience?



LOL I already sent them a link to this thread. Told them its not nice to piss off a contractor. And i would never ever use their products. 


the only experience i had with a wine cellar was near Englewood NJ, They had a wine cellar that had water damage and the wine racks has to be torn out along with all the drywall, The source of the leak was supposedly fixed by roofers and others, We returned one weekend to find the floor wet but mostly below the ceiling hung refrigeration unit, I traced the condensate line and found that they simply put the other end of the condensate line into the underground exterior drainage system for the gutters and leaders LOL. so when it rained it backed up the condensate line to the basement wine cellar room.


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

Feel free to use my experience how ever you would like. I've done further research on them and saw they had 26 complaints with the Better Business Bureau all regarding the same issues I have had with them. Check it out for yourself but there are much better products out there than Vinotemp. I have built at least a dozen winecellars over the past 5 years or so and this is the only time I've had any issues and it's the only time I've used Vinotemp. You figure out for yourself where the problem lies.


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

A W Smith said:


> I traced the condensate line and found that they simply put the other end of the condensate line into the underground exterior drainage system for the gutters and leaders LOL. so when it rained it backed up the condensate line to the basement wine cellar room.


Brillant!  It never fails to amaze me to see how other contractors go about their work. I had a one about a year ago, brand new home with a finished basement and a winecellar. Winecellar was always planned to go there. Builder forgot to run a condensate line out of the room so when he was finished he just ran it into a garbage can that sat under the cooling unit and told the homeowners to watch it so it didn't overflow. AND THE HOMEOWNERS ACCEPTED THAT


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## Vinotemp (Dec 18, 2009)

*Response*

Hello Everyone, 

I did follow up with everyone here who spoke with this contractor and these were the responses:

From Diana: "this guy called yesterday and was cursing worse then a sailor. I spoke with him in the beginning of the problem when he said his case was scratched, we had to order a new case for him. He took weeks to send it back, once he did we sent out a new case. The whole time I was communicating with Beverage Factory not him. After that I believe he spoke with Yvette, Haoming and then Amanda. When he called yesterday he was cursing at Yvette then I took the call. He was yelling and cursing and telling me to shut up, we have given him two options, to put a deposit on a new one or send the “defective unit” and when we receive it we will send the new unit. He said and I quote “I will make it my life’s goal to bring your Company down”. 

From Yvette:
I took the call yesterday, he did ask for Amanda but she was unavailable and I told him…. Per the engineer we will have to switch out the evaporator, so we have two options:
1. We can issue a call tag and have the evaporator picked up and send him a new one.
2. He can leave a deposit and we can ship out the new one, which will refund the deposit when we get the defective unit back here. 
He then told me to quote “Get your head out of your ass” and he was just cursing and yelling to he point where you could not understand him- he was yelling so loudly into the phone… never once did he ask to speak to any one else I did tell him to please hold and asked for Diana’s help.

From Haoming:


Regarding the evaporator unit (fan coil) The cover is made of aluminum, not stainless steel as this contractor stated. The regular finish is brushed which has never been a problem in the past, yet we switched this out for him.
The solenoid valve has 2 components, the body assembly and coil assembly. The body is soldered into the tubing. My first response was to replace the coil only not to de-solder the body. The contractor misunderstood the valve coil instead of evaporator coil. My second response was to replace the whole valve (including body and coil) or evaporator unit. 
From Vinotemp: 
It helps us in management to get emails so we can be as thourough as possible to help the customer. Believe me, we want happy customers. We dont want someone screaming and cursing at the staff. 

We take ownership if the product is damaged or defective, we have for the past 25 years. 

We cannot switch out product unless we have the other in. Many times, product is not defective but installed incorrectly. We have spent alot of time to post everything on line to help the contractor install our products correctly and Haoming is a brilliant engineer who can answer any cooling unit question. 

Feedback like this is useful for us, as we obviously need to improve our customer service, however we cannot respond to cursing and insults and expect to help. 

Sir, if you would like to discuss this civily we are happy to help.

[email protected]


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

Vinotemp said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I did follow up with everyone here who spoke with this contractor and these were the responses:
> 
> ...


 

i think this is one of the most unprofessional PUBLIC responses i have read. as an agent of your company, you are really tarnishing your image with a "he said, she said" response! if i was the principle of your company, i would be furious and embarrased.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh shoot, it's going to be a rumble!!


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

This is going to be exciting


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## Vinotemp (Dec 18, 2009)

How would you have handled it?
What is your suggestion? 
To be accused and not defend? 
To be insulted and say nothing?
We are reaching out to help, we are being proactive.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, you did drag your feet for a long time.

If I am buying an expesive appliance or tool or whatever, I expect the best customer service ever.


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## Vinotemp (Dec 18, 2009)

I hear you. And yes, Customer Service constantly needs to improve. I do suggest that email is so much more efficient, there is back up, theres time stamp...the calling with he said she said is not efficent enough. We do our best to manage the emails efficiently, and true the phone in service needs improvement, a 2010 goal!


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Vinotemp said:


> Feedback like this is useful for us, as we obviously need to improve our customer service, however we cannot respond to cursing and insults and expect to help.


Hey Vinotemp,

It's really easy to NOT MAKE US curse and insult if you realize that our time is money and that no contractor likes to deal with product defects only to have the manufacturer be non-responsive or inattentive to scheduling and service.

I don't buy for one minute why you can't cross ship a new part out. Do you think there is a black market for defective evaporator coils out there? It's idiotic to think that any contractor would make us a BS story to get a free part out of you. The LAST THING anyone wants to do is pickup the phone and call tech support because it slows us down.

Don't make the process any harder than it is.

You cannot save your reputation with anyone here at this point. You blew it.

The best part is that Google is going to index this thread and IT WILL show up when people research your products. 

Way to go!:clap::clap::clap:


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## Vinotemp (Dec 18, 2009)

Actually, on ebay, we found people are selling our parts. 
Also, to keep costs down, and avoid the costs of collections and time spent to get a second unit back the policy works well. Everyone wants to pay little for product, and we are doing our best to make that happen efficiently. Please tell me who actually does send two units out without a deposit or the other one returned? Subzero? GE? I would love to discuss with them how they handle that and do people really return them? To spend our time collecting instead of creating and building units isnt good for anyone.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

What the heck would I do with one good unit and one faulty one?

Send a replacement fast, include returen shipping label and a box to ship it in. You would get it back asap.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Vinotemp,

What you failed to realize is that the original poster is a high-end custom builder that regularly constructs home wine cellars. He puts his reputation at stake when specifying materials for his clients' projects. He is, in essence, an extension of your sales staff in this scenario. 

If and/or when there is a problem with a material he installed, his only course of action is to follow up with the manufacturers warranty. As contractors, we are routinely put in a situation where we are doing labor for free because of a failed item we installed. The failure is not our fault, yet many manufactures will only warranty the item itself. In return, we need the warranty procedure to be quick and painless. That's the least we are asking for considering we are now on our own time. 

However, when this situation occurs, we are not only let with an unhappy client, we are also placed in a financial dilemma. I've never understood why the contractor is under the most pressure. If the defect is not our fault, we inevitably are doing some portion of labor for free AND we are now putting our credibility on the line too. As professionals, customers look to our opinions about materials to make sure they are getting a decent product.

I believe the one who has learned the most valuable lesson in this case (hopefully) is your company. I don't see how retribution can be made at this point. OGStilts has already been mistreated and has to now save face with his client. I do not blame him for no longer wanting to specify any of your products because of his experience with them. Furthermore, as a group of contractors, I don't see why any of us would consider using Vinotemo products in the future either. As I've stated, we are left holding the ball far too often when it comes to failed materials. There are plenty of of companies out there I'd rather try than one that has a proven record of poor customer service.

Thanks for taking your time to reply but I'm sorry to say, you have burned this bridge.

Angus


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Vinotemp said:


> Actually, on ebay, we found people are selling our parts.
> Also, to keep costs down, and avoid the costs of collections and time spent to get a second unit back the policy works well. Everyone wants to pay little for product, and we are doing our best to make that happen efficiently. Please tell me who actually does send two units out without a deposit or the other one returned? Subzero? GE? I would love to discuss with them how they handle that and do people really return them? To spend our time collecting instead of creating and building units isnt good for anyone.


You should really stop posting. Really.

The hole is getting deeper by the minute.

About once a week someone posts a thread about how they had a GREAT experience with a vendor. Why? Because the company does whatever it takes to make someone happy.

Would one evaporator coil (or whatever was faulty) financially ruin your company? Just send the damn thing out.

As contractors, there are lots of times we take the hit in our pocketbooks for the sake of the client being happy so we get rave reviews and referrals.

What do you think you'll be getting as a result of this disastrous thread? I bet those parts seem like a deal now compared to all the bad press you will continue to get from this thread. 

Now, every time someone Googles "vinotemp" they are going to see this thread and how you only know how to make excuses.

Had you have gone the other way, prospective clients would see great comments FROM CONTRACTORS about your product.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

angus242 said:


> Vinotemp,
> 
> What you failed to realize is that the original poster is a high-end custom builder that regularly constructs home wine cellars. He puts his reputation at stake when specifying materials for his clients' projects. He is, in essence, an extension of your sales staff in this scenario.
> 
> ...


Well said. Here, here!


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## CharlesD (Feb 12, 2007)

I had a electric motor go bad on an insulation blower once. The company's policy was to ship a new one after they got my old one back. 
Well, I didn't want to wait four or five days or longer for a new one so they agreed to overnight it to me if I would give them a credit card number that they could charge the motor to in case I didn't send the defective one back.
Maybe Vinotemp could do something like that.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

When dealing with manufacturers, or distributors, we need quick, polite, and effective responses when a problem develops in the field, nothing less is acceptable. Communication is the key, our customers need to know that action is being taken immediately, and they are entitled to an update, each and every day. Lets keep this thread productive if possible, GMOD


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

OGStilts said:


> I recently installed a Vinotemp Cooling Unit in a winecellar I was building. I'm here to warn everyone NOT to make the same mistake I made.
> 
> Until this wine cellar, I hadn't even heard of Vinotemp but my client was browsing on the Internet and found this one particular unit that he liked very much. I wasn't crazy about installing a brand I wasn't familiar with but hey if that's what the customer wants I'll give it to them. After all, I didn't see anything alarming on the website that said they were anything but professionals and it certainly wasn't the cheapest product out there so I thought "what could go wrong".
> 
> ...


I think I am going to edit this down a bit and use it as a print out to give to customers when the cicumstances sometimes come up where they want to spec products and I tell them we don't warranty anything we don't spec and supply ourselves and here is why. 

Sorry for your pain, but thanks very much! :thumbsup:

But this is exactly why we don't get involved with installing anything that we don't spec and supply.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Vinotemp- read this : 

*Cudos to Job Clock Customer Service*


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

Vinotemp said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I did follow up with everyone here who spoke with this contractor and these were the responses:
> 
> ...


I only have a minute to respond to this but don't want anyone thinking I'm avoiding it. I will come back to respond to anything I miss now. 

Did I call yesterday with the plan of yelling and cursing anyone out? No, absolutely not. I shouldn't of even had to call if one single person had the decency to return a phone call as promised. 

When I called, apparently it was Yvette that answered the phone and I have spoken and left many messages with her over course of all the problems I have had and not one single message I left with her has ever been returned. So either she shouldn't be the person answering the phone and taking messages or you have a sh*tty company policy about returning phone calls. 

My company policy is that all phone calls get returned within 24 hours no matter the circumstances. 

That aside, so Yvette answers the phone and I ask for Amanda. Yvette asks for my name and reason for calling. I tell her my name and said I was calling because my previous phone call from 3 days ago was once again not returned. She proceeded to put me on hold without even asking me if I would mind holding and then gets back on and says that Amanda is busy, would I like to leave a message. 

This has happened on several occasions so any idiot knows that Amanda is obviously screening her calls and doesn't want to talk to me. :furious: If that wouldn't set you off then you are obviously a better person than me. 

At that point I wouldn't say I was cursing like a sailor though, I think it went something like this "What the h*ll do you mean she is busy? Do you have any G*d D*mn idea how many G*d D*mn messages I have left for her already?" That's when Yvette informs me that if I keep cursing at her she is going to "HANG UP ON ME".    So that's when I really was cursing like a sailor. I'm not proud of it, but if you want to really set me off, tell me your going to hang up on me and that will do it. 

I won't get into all the other lies above about your company's phone etiquette or who I did and did not ask to speak to or how your employees wouldn't give me their full names or their official titles or how I know I didn't misunderstand Haoming because he said he had to get a managers approval on sending out the item (I don't think he needs that on a $10 part that you sent me, my guess is the manager denied it and told him to send the cheaper part to see if it did the trick). 

At least you aren't full of sh*t when you say it took me two weeks to send you the original cover because as I told your incompetent employees when they finally called me to tell me that you were sending UPS to pick up the cover the next day, I told them it wasn't in my possession. It was installed on the unit at the job site and the job was just wrapped up. This was on a Wed or a Thurs and my clients were having a party that weekend and wanted to show off the cellar. I asked if I could get the cover from the winecellar on Monday and could you send UPS to pick it up on Tuesday so I can ship it back. Your employee said that would be fine. Tuesday came and went and UPS never picked it up. When I called UPS to find out why they said that pick up order had been canceled so again I had to call you guys to find out how you botched that up. Thanks for reminding me about that, I had forgot completely about that. 

Even after that got worked out it still took you 3 weeks to get it repaired and send back to me. And don't lie about sending me a new one, there were distinct tool marks on the lower corner and the stickers on the cover were all crooked exactly the same as the one I had sent you. I never said it wasn't a brushed surface, it is a supposed to be a brushed surface not a SCRATCHED SURFACE. 

Maybe if you'd learn how to pack the unit in a properly sized box it wouldn't shift in the packing and get scratched up. Another idea would be wrap the unit in plastic before packing it shipping peanuts. I know that's a foreign concept to you but most manufactures take the time to protect their products before boxing them up and shipping them off.

Your company has cost me a lot of money already in time and effort to clean up your mess already. Now you want me to ask my client if I can disassemble their cooling unit for god knows how long so I can send back the defective parts to you before you send me new parts or you want me to give you more money which we all know I can trust you to refund right?:laughing: 

You do understand that this winecellar is completely stocked right? You do realize that people that have these winecellars are a bit particular about their wine and we aren't talking about it being stocked with Two Buck Chuck right? Your crappy product has already cost me too much and now you want more money to cover defective parts. :notworthy 

Sorry if I don't bow down to your demands but I don't trust Vinotemp or anyone that works there. I have spoken with my supplier and they said they will work out the details with you. Please be kind enough to at least return their calls. 

I think if I were you, I'd worry more about my employees and my company policies that are obviously not in place before I started complaining about a customer yelling and cursing at you. If you had proper etiquette policies in place and enforced that prevented employees from not returning phone calls, putting people on hold with out asking first, and most importantly interrupting the customer when he is trying to explain the problems to you, maybe you wouldn't have a customer cursing and yelling at you in the first place. I know I'm not the only one that has these issues with you because 26 complaints with the BBB tells me so. And it isn't one individual that has these issues because every employee I have talked to had the exact same phone etiquette.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

I'm still wondering why you half-assed refurbishing the cover instead of sending him a new one. Who cares if it's stainless steel or aluminum? 

As contractors, we take ownership over everything we install. Homeowners are used to being taken advantage of by the unscrupulous, who don't stand by their work. Consequently it's not uncommond for us to be in the position of not getting paid until we straighten out a product defect outside of our control. I don't expect my suppliers to be perfect--but I am loyal to those who respond quickly to help me when problems happen. In this case, It certainly appears as if you treated it like a one-off transaction. It's one thing to be dealing with someone who rarely works with this equipment--but Chad has installed more wine rooms than 90% of the contractors who post here.

No matter what your rules are for replacement parts, you'd already inconvenienced him once--why not bend over backwards to straighten it out after the second issue?


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

Vinotemp said:


> How would you have handled it?
> What is your suggestion?
> To be accused and not defend?
> To be insulted and say nothing?
> We are reaching out to help, we are being proactive.


if i could only make one suggestion to open your eyes a bit... it would be to read "winning freinds and influencing people" 

perhaps that read will enlighten you to answer your own question.


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## dhall (Nov 7, 2007)

Although I prefer to stay out of these slugfests I feel that I have to make an observation at this point. So far what I see is the OP coming on an proceeding to trash a company for various reasons. Then I see a group of professionals proceed to throw the company under the bus based on one side of the story. Now I see the company come on (which I find admirable by the way) and we subject them to a severe tongue lashing because they are Satan in the flesh. So finally the OP comes back and admits to cursing at the customer service people for a series of reasons. I think that about sums up the score to date. Now for my observation.

I would like to believe that this site is for constructively discussing our place in the world. I hate to see it turn into a place where we are happy to trash a company based on a set of statements that we don't know to be true or not. I am not trying to say the OP is right or wrong or the company is right or wrong. But instead of a good tongue lashing lets see if maybe we can take a little knowledge away from this. How about this. Instead of another 3 pages of trashing a company based on facts we were not around to witness first hand lets instead try to come up with some constructive ideas that will help us in similar situations in the future. Here are some thoughts to start

As the company as said, and I agree 100% email is the best way to communicate. It is quick, leaves a trail and allows thoughts to be expressed without alot of extra drama

Cursing never accomplishes anything and in my view has now place in a professional situation. I have always told people that work for me that under no circumstances will I allow them to disrespect someone they are dealing with by cursing at them. And at the same time I have always told them that if someone starts cursing they are to remove themselves from the conversation whether it be on the phone or in person. The need to show the people they are dealing with respect and they are entitled to expect it in return. I find it interesting that thee is a thread right now on customers swearing and yet we seem to think it is ok for us to do it.

As far as the companies position, maybe they need to work on how they handle these situations. I know that many companies I have worked with over the years have the same policies. I am sure there are other better ways to do it but I don't know their business. I do know for a fact that many companies are set up for email more so than phone service these days. It is a product the times.

In threads like this I think we as a group need to be more aware of how we are presenting our selves to the outside world as this is a public forum. It is disappointing to listen to the tone of threads like this when we don't know all of the facts. All we know is what one person says and when someone comes on to discuss it we are quick to pick a side and start firing the big guns. I hate to see statements like we are going to trash you in our high and mighty forum so you will regret ever getting into the cooler business. It makes us look like idiots.

As far as the the company, I appreciate the fact you are willing to come on and deal with this unruly bunch of contractors. I am not sure that the he said she said routine was the best way to go but I understand where you are coming from. I also don't know what the part in question entails, whether it is a $10 dollar part or a $1000 part but I hope you understand the OPs frustration.

I apologize for the rambling post. I just started to get a real bad vibe from the tone of this one and I hate to see it on what is a normally a very professional site. 

One last though is that in this kind of post and in fact anytime I get into these kind of situations, photos go a long way to establishing credibility both with the company and when you decide to start a post like this.


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## Hardly Working (Apr 7, 2005)

Vinotemp said:


> Please tell me who actually does send two units out without a deposit or the other one returned? Subzero? GE? I would love to discuss with them how they handle that and do people really return them? To spend our time collecting instead of creating and building units isnt good for anyone.



I have had companies like Dacor, Sub Zero, Miele, Sony, G.E. and others send out replacement parts without having to send them the original item back first. Your hesitation to act on things like this is what brought this on. If you learn anything from this it is to act on these type of things in a timely manner, not take weeks to resolve. Oh yeh it's still not resolved.

Before starting in construction I worked in Manufacturing from production, r&d, design, and customer service. To keep brand loyalty you do what it takes to resolve problems like this.

I can only take the original poster words to be true. I have found that the only way to get anywhere with things like this is to climb the ladder. The customer service rep can only do so much to get what you need the higher you climb the faster the results. When you get to the V.P. things happen alot quicker. Oh yeh heads tend to roll when you get to the top for answers. How secure is your job? :whistling


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

DHall - you do make some valid points. However, let me point a couple of quick items out to you. 

The credibility of the OP - Chad / OGStilts is not in question by any of us here. I realize that while you may have been here since 2007 it does not appear that you are that active. While post counts don't really show who is credible and who isn't - you will not have people like Mike, Greg, Chris, myself, or others popping in here defending him or his company if he hasn't already earned it. If you truly have questions on his credibility I would pull a search of his past threads - his work speaks for itself. 



> As the company has said, and I agree 100% email is the best way to communicate. It is quick, leaves a trail and allows thoughts to be expressed without allot of extra drama


So what did I change above? Would you ever notice if I hadn't said anything? Emails can be changed - it is a real simple process and then who are you going to believe? 

While a companies policy might be "we only want emails", how many contractors have access to emails at the customers job sites? There are plenty of places I work around here that I would be glad if I had a cell phone signal, much less data capabilities. How many flare ups occur on this site because of what was written, not meant or intended - but written? I know if I have an issue with a unit, there is a number to call for support which works out better generally for the tech & me.

The cussing part - while I fully agree with you, there has been at least a time or two that I have lost it on some of these companies, just like many others on here have. I am glad that you either have the patience of Job, or have been blessed not to deal with some of these companies. I don't think Chad hid the fact that he sweared at them if you do read his original post - granted he didn't state it specifically, but if you are halfway human you know he probably let a few slip just like most of us probably would have done by then. 

Pictures - while they are always nice, not everyone always carries a camera with them. Then there is the simple fact, many of us don't think like lawyers - we simply box it up, and send it back without ever having any issues.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

this is great,now these companies with shoddy products and customer service are put on notice
that that way of running a business won't be tolerated by us ''little guy's'' anymore

we finally have a voice:clap:

sorry you had to go thru this crap Chad,but maybe some good for all of us will come out of your situation:notworthy


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Vinotemp said:


> Actually, on ebay, we found people are selling our parts.
> Also, to keep costs down, and avoid the costs of collections and time spent to get a second unit back the policy works well. Everyone wants to pay little for product, and we are doing our best to make that happen efficiently. Please tell me who actually does send two units out without a deposit or the other one returned? Subzero? GE? I would love to discuss with them how they handle that and do people really return them? To spend our time collecting instead of creating and building units isnt good for anyone.


 
don't these companies that you seem to think you can compare yours to have regional service people?


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## dhall (Nov 7, 2007)

SLSTech said:


> DHall - you do make some valid points. However, let me point a couple of quick items out to you.
> 
> The credibility of the OP - Chad / OGStilts is not in question by any of us here. I realize that while you may have been here since 2007 it does not appear that you are that active. While post counts don't really show who is credible and who isn't - you will not have people like Mike, Greg, Chris, myself, or others popping in here defending him or his company if he hasn't already earned it. If you truly have questions on his credibility I would pull a search of his past threads - his work speaks for itself.
> 
> ...


My post was not meant to imply anything about either the OP or the company. My point was simply that this forum should be about finding solutions to problems that confront contractors. Not a place to simply throw a company under the bus. Especially one that is willing to come forward to discuss the matter. As far as swearing, I have no more patience then the next guy, I just made a decision years ago that I don't swear in front of kids and I don't swear at people I am dealing with in business. The plain fact is that is doesn't accomplish anything and always makes it harder to get something accomplished.

Really my post was simply a thought that we should use the situation constructively but if people want to use it as a chance to gang up on a company so be it.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Personally I think the OP is doing many of us a favor by discussing what he knows of this company. Im sure it will be in alot of folks heads next time a project like this comes up. 

Do you think anyone here will want to use a company that makes demands of their buyers? I would think, and I have a feeling many others here will too, that it is the customers who should make the demands to the companies. Especially ones who try to pull things off like brushing out scratches due to mishandling on new fault of the buyers instead of giving a new piece. 

Thats just ridiculous. I dont think he was really throwing a company under the bus. It seems to me that by the way they handled the situation, as opposed to should have handled it, it was them who threw him under the bus of the homeowner.

It seems the OP was fortunate enough to have understanding and patient customers. If you've ever dealt with people who have money you will know that they arent happy when things dont go right and can get very, very unpleasant to deal with.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> Vinotemp- read this :
> 
> *Cudos to Job Clock Customer Service*


That was the one that lingered in my mind...I just couldn't remember it exactly.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

tomstruble said:


> we finally have a voice:clap:


exactly!


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

dhall said:


> Although I prefer to stay out of these slugfests I feel that I have to make an observation at this point. So far what I see is the OP coming on an proceeding to trash a company for various reasons. Then I see a group of professionals proceed to throw the company under the bus based on one side of the story. Now I see the company come on (which I find admirable by the way) and we subject them to a severe tongue lashing because they are Satan in the flesh. So finally the OP comes back and admits to cursing at the customer service people for a series of reasons. I think that about sums up the score to date. Now for my observation.
> 
> I would like to believe that this site is for constructively discussing our place in the world. I hate to see it turn into a place where we are happy to trash a company based on a set of statements that we don't know to be true or not. I am not trying to say the OP is right or wrong or the company is right or wrong. But instead of a good tongue lashing lets see if maybe we can take a little knowledge away from this. How about this. Instead of another 3 pages of trashing a company based on facts we were not around to witness first hand lets instead try to come up with some constructive ideas that will help us in similar situations in the future. Here are some thoughts to start
> 
> ...


I understand and appreciate your position. I get nervous when I see these types of posts bashing a company as well and have taken your stance in one such post where an individual was bashing a trim company's product and that manufacturer showed up to defend their product. There has been one occasion that I can think of where one member started a thread and as the thread evolved he painted a certain truck company in a bad light but that thread was exposed as complete BS and that member was eventually banned (not for that reason). It's really frustrating when a one post wonder comes along, bashes a company, and then disappears never to be heard from again. 

I am not going anywhere and I stand behind my statements on this company. I just want Vinotemp to send me the parts need to fix the problem so I can continue to have happy clients. I have zero tolerance for anyone who's incompetence messes with my company's reputation. 

There have been other posts where I agreed with the poster and felt they were wronged and was grateful for them bringing it to the attention of the rest of us. 

It is clear what the purpose of my post is and I think the great thing about the Internet is that you are able to get unfiltered opinions from just about anyone. This is my opinion of this company and I think the general public is intelligent enough to read what I have said and search elsewhere and read what others have said and form their own opinion. 

I have admitted my fault here for cursing at them and agree that it was completely inappropriate but I can't take that back. I think I saw someone here recently say that cursing is for the feeble minded. I loved that quote, it was right on and usually I have the restraint from doing so. This time my temper got the best of me but really I know I refrained from getting into the really offensive words such as f**** and I also know I stayed away from personal name calling. To me words like h*ll, sh*t, and a$$ aren't really that unbearable but that's just my opinion. So here I am again admitting my mistake but they still refuse to take any responsibility for their mistakes and aren't doing anything about it. 

You want pictures...how do you suggest I photograph them not returning phone calls, how do you suggest I photograph them sending me parts that don't fix the problem (and since you seemed confused about this, the part needed to fix the problem is a $1,000 according to them, the part they sent me the first time to try and fix it on the cheap I estimated to probably be about a $10 part. I can photograph that part if that would make you feel better), how do you suggest I photograph a generally rude and uncooperative secretary, customer service agent, and office manager. That suggestion is just ridiculous. 

If you don't see how this thread has started out with one purpose and evolved into something I think much more beneficial to all then I can't help you. I have watched the power of this website and others like it grow and like Tom said it has finally given us "small" guys a voice. 

I have watched posts like Chris's EPA threads has stirred up more awareness across this industry than anything the associations have done on the matter. 

I do not like to be pushed around or treated poorly by anyone and I don't think anyone else here does either. Now companies like Vinotemp have to answer for their actions. It's on us the consumers to weed out the BS from truth. If you feel like I'm full of complete BS then you have the right to speak up and say so. Maybe you have had a positive experience with Vinotemp, by all means this would be the place to say so.


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

*Vinotemp Wine Cellars Poor Quality Review*



Vinotemp said:


> Firstly, we did not refinish anything. That was completely untrue.


So you want to continue to call me a liar? Would you like my client to testify to the unique tool marks on the inside of the cover that were on the original cover and when we received the "new" cover those unique tool marks were still on there. Plus the bottom sticker on the front was still crooked. 

I'm not stupid. I can tell the difference from the brushed finish and these distinct scratches. Someone is either lying to you about sending me a new cover or you are lying to everyone here about doing so. And the best part is that doesn't even matter, the client has accepted that crappy craftsmanship but you keep bringing it up and calling me a liar. I love it. The crappy craftsmanship that he won't accept is the loud squealing sound that prevents him from having a conversation while in the room next door. 

You still can't see the scratches. I circled them in green for you. In red I circled all the permanently attached stickers on the cover that made it look more like the side of a NASCAR car than a finely crafted appliance. I don't have stickers like that on the front of my fridge or stove, do you?










Here is the picture from your website. Where are the stickers and the scratches on this picture?


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Two suggestions, with all due respect.

Hire a PR firm--you're doing a lousy job at this on your own. 

Second, fix the problem Tout de Suite. This is turning into a pile-on, and the longer this thread goes on the higher it's going to index. No matter how justified you think your position is, swallow your pride and FIX THIS. You're doing irreparable harm to your reputation.


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

In case some of you are saying, why does it matter what a cover on a cooling unit looks like, in this particular case the unit has the thermostat and controls on the front of it. Most of the time, I install a unit that is hidden that may sit above the entry door or is hidden behind a large wood grate. You can't do that with this unit so finishes are of the utmost importance. Would you want something looking like that when you have paid good money for the rest of the room to look like this:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

if you say its not acceptable that's all i need to hear


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## OGStilts (Aug 30, 2007)

I'd stop beating my head against the wall if I heard that but I'd still like to hear "and we will fix it right away" 

An appology would be nice as well but I won't hold my breath.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

instead of being on here this guy should have been on your job site with a new unit and a check refunding the purchase price for the headache his junk has caused

poor vinotemp so misunderstood:whistling


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Only a company that thought E-mail is an acceptable means of customer service (if not the EXCLUSIVE means!?), would come to an internet forum and try and win.

Major fail in all aspects, Vinotemp.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Well I visited their web site. I did notice that they import some of their stuff. Did you get the stuff made in their _'factory'_ in California or did you get the Mexico/China crap?

I also noticed that on their warrenty page they state it ain't their fault if it is damaged in shipment even if they don't package it properly. Betcha' anything that is the excuse they're using. They filed a claim against the carrier, hoping they'll pay for it.

Anyho, this is making some interesting posts on other forums too. Keep up the good work. You're burning your company down pretty quick here.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> Only a company that thought E-mail is an acceptable means of customer service (if not the EXCLUSIVE means!?), would come to an internet forum and try and win.
> 
> Major fail in all aspects, Vinotemp.


If you visit their privacy page, they talk to the visitors of their website like you're a child. Pretty degrading. I think the owners of this company may have some intelligence but no people skills. It shows in everything on their website.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

One more thing. This thread should be stickied so all the new talent or people wanting to start web pages or a business can see the effects if they don't take the time or effort to help the customer or how one skill they lack can hurt them.

It also shows those of you, who don't believe in cussing, just what happens when you turn your back on someone who is *so upset* that they resort to cussing. 

_*Hint*_ When a customer is screaming and cussing, that is the time to stop *EVERYTHING* and *RESOLVE* the problem_.*Hint*_


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Wow . Sorry to hear you have these issues OGStilts. The guy from Vinotemp Winecellars seems like he's more worried about saving a few $ than saving his companys reputation. I used to be a installer of Miele, Bosch, Seimens, Electrolux to mention a few and i never had hassle like this trying to get parts replaced. They would even compensate me for my time spent out fixing their problems if the company tech for them areas couldn't get out to look at it. 

First off email is NOT the best way to solve issues. (It's the best way to ignore bulk problem complaints) 
I notice from your web site vinotemp that you have zero issues with sales being made by phone, but complaints should be done by email!!! :blink:
Fully explains why his calls never get returned. Emails take a lot longer to sort problems than making a call and only a company that has bad customer service would ask you to e-mail only.

You may want to remove this from your website Vinotemp

*A Proud Heritage of Experience and Quality*

Vinotemp is committed to providing our customers with the finest quality wine storage products and a superior level of service. :no::no::no:




Send the guy what he needs, Compensate him for his time for fixing your bad workmanship quality and the time calling your awful customer service.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

BCConstruction said:


> I notice from your web site vinotemp that you have zero issues with sales being made by phone, but complaints should be done by email!!! :blink:


Funny how that works, huh? :laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Funny how that works, huh? :laughing:


 
The funny thing though Mike is i have always found that shady company's with bad customer service like to do this and these guys seem to be no exception.

I bet they couldn't be anymore helpful when your looking to buy one and your calls will be returned within seconds. :shifty:


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Message removed by me due to me speculating on facts not important to this discussion.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

_"All complaints, problems with our products, missing items, defects etc... from now on contact should only be initiated by pony express or hand delivered by leprechauns. All correspondence shall be written in Hebrew in 8 pt Halvetica in blue ink, wrapped in 2 layers of tissue paper and folded over 2 times. Any correspondence that deviates from these simple requirements will not be read."_

Have a nice day!


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## Dave R (Jan 20, 2008)

Vinotemp
I worked in customer service for a very large corporation for 20 years prior to becoming a contractor. It doesn't matter wheather you are a small family business or a large corporation, if you are to be successful and grow a satisfied following of repeat customers, you have to treat your customers as if they are ALWAYS RIGHT! NO MATTER WHAT!. 

I agree that your employees should never be cursed at, but if you learn how to manage problems in a professional and timely manner, they will rarely be cursed at. A customer that is in constant communication with someone who is working to resolve the issue usually finds no need to curse at anyone.

Finally, E-mail is fine for normal communication, especially follow-up communication if the e-mails are timely and productive towards resolving the problem. BUT for initial problem resolution, especially on critical issues, the initial call should be a call to a real person. At that point an action plan can be put in place and communication can follow via e-mail. What better way is there for you to assure a customer that you really care about them as YOUR CUSTOMER than to actually speak to them. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## woodtradesman (Apr 23, 2008)

The fish rots from the head. :thumbdown


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

how is there absolutly no concept of saving face? right, wrong, or indiferent... your sole purpose is to sell product and you are trying to differentiate your selves into a high end market yet you try and defend yourself personally by criticizing a paying customer? where is the integrety in that? you need help with customer relations and maybe a new business plan and statement of purpose... it sounds as if you might not even have one.

i say this in all constructive criticism, i wish no one failure or hard times.


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## Kycym (Nov 23, 2009)

I have a smaller undercounter VinoTemp that died on me after 18 months. I bought it at Costco. Costco told me to deal directly with Vino Temp.
Everything that your experience was seems to be consistant with mine. Vino Temp does not call back. When you finally get to speak to someone they weren't as interested in the model number as they were in how much I paid for it. My impression was that they wanted to see if it was worth their while to deal with me. I got no return calls after I gave them the information on the model. I never got to talk to a rep as no one ever answered my calls nor returned my calls. They have no Customer Service skills whatsoever!

*NEVER BUY VINO TEMP*. IF YOU EVER COME ACROSS ANY OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT IN BLOGS OR FORUMS, GIVE THEM THEIR DUE.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

2 bad reviews on one small forum in the whole wide web? What are the chances of that? Things arn't looking good...


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