# Info on taking down a post and beam barn



## 4 seasons lawn& (Jan 25, 2008)

Hello. I am looking into possibly getting a winter crew together to take down a 60x60 timber frame barn. I would not rebuild the barn but repurpose the beams for a house Im having built for myself. Im wondering how much an endeavor this would be for me and a couple other relatively inexperienced guys. Also what would be needed. Would hand labor and ropes and my mini excavator be sufficient or would I need a 20 ton excavator or a crane?


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## Dustincoc (Sep 14, 2011)

Don't know where you are but I'd probably call the Amish in on this one. 60x60 is a pretty big frame but it could be done by hand with enough people. 

Since you main goal is to salvage the timbers, I'd strip the structure to a bare frame and then bring in a crane and lower the bents to the ground so they could be taken apart the way they were put together. I'd expect a 60' long structure to have 5 bents since bents are traditionally spaced 12' apart. I would expect at least 12x12 timbers from the majority of the frame which get real heavy quickly. The mini-excavator definately couldn't handle lifting a big piece of timber.






As you can see, even the Amish use a crane.

Edit: bents are the cross section frames


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## SAW.co (Jan 2, 2011)

To really be efficient rent a grade all and just hire 1 or 2 guys who are experienced and comfortable with heights. Shouldn't take more than a couple weeks.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

SAW.co said:


> To really be efficient rent a grade all and just hire 1 or 2 guys who are experienced and comfortable with heights. Shouldn't take more than a couple weeks.


Curious how a grade all is going to help :blink:


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Does the barn have a slab or a dirt floor. What is the ridge height? 

What you need is a scissor lift, all terrain if dirt floor. Height as required. Use this to demo roofing and sheathing material, and to rig the bents for lowering without damage. 

Get you some nylon straps of various lengths- inexpensive and much easier on the wood than conventional wire rope chokers. 

Then either rent a boom truck bare, (you provide operator) or better yet, crane with experienced operator. Typically $150/ hour for the size crane you would need, 3 or 4 hour minimum. They key is to have everything wrecked and out of the way before the crane gets there, and a plan on how to lay it all down efficiently so that you aren't paying $150 an hour for a guy to sit in his crane and drink coffee.


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## SAW.co (Jan 2, 2011)

mudpad said:


> Curious how a grade all is going to help :blink:


A large forklift with a boom?
I could find that pretty useful:whistling


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Mudpad has some good advice for you...:thumbsup:

Be very careful stripping the structure TOO far down so that it
is dangerous standing by itself.

That size barn, probably some good size timbers & lengths....

You give any thought about transporting to new site?

AHJ/Engineer ok with recycled beams?

Crane availability at new site for erection?

Just food for thought...:thumbsup:

Good Luck.


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## pappagor (Jan 29, 2008)

look for a local framer with a lift u will get 2 for 1 exp and a lift


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

SAW.co said:


> A large forklift with a boom?
> I could find that pretty useful:whistling


OK got it. Around here this is a gradall:










A large forklift with a boom is called a Lull.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

4 seasons lawn& said:


> Im wondering how much an endeavor this would be for me and a couple other relatively inexperienced guys.


Most likely difficult and dangerous. Reusing the timbers is going to be a bigger PITA than you'd expect, as well.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

hdavis said:


> Most likely difficult and dangerous. Reusing the timbers is going to be a bigger PITA than you'd expect, as well.


I agree.

There are some amish around me that will take them down and put them up again but they are usually couple of men with a bunch of kids. Typically guys who raise produce and don't have anything better to do. There is no money in it and it won't worth it. You will have way more in it trying to make it work than if you would just build new.

Old barns are incredibly dangerous to work on. Usually there are only a few load bearing points and if you take one of those out the whole thing can come down on you before you can get out. 

I'll say it again, old timber frame barns are incredibly resilient they can stand for an amazing amount of time, even leaning, but when they go, they go hard and fast and you don't want to be connected to the the thing in any way. I'd stay away. Not worth the money or health risk.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

How dangerous would it be to tie a chain or a heavy rope to the ridge of the roof and pull it down with a truck?

Even though it would be messy, if this can be done then you can safely dismantle the barn from the ground.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

tedanderson said:


> How dangerous would it be to tie a chain or a heavy rope to the ridge of the roof and pull it down with a truck?
> 
> Even though it would be messy, if this can be done then you can safely dismantle the barn from the ground.


Then you could pretty much scratch the reclaimed timbers from structural use.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Work backwards. Not that difficult to figure out. A lull would be your best friend.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

tedanderson said:


> How dangerous would it be to tie a chain or a heavy rope to the ridge of the roof and pull it down with a truck?
> 
> Even though it would be messy, if this can be done then you can safely dismantle the barn from the ground.


First you've got to get all the siding/roofing off without the thing falling over. I suppose you could do that. 

Around here guys will actually take them down and reassemble them. Beams are mortised, tenoned, and pinned. All these would be broken if you pulled it over. If you're just after the beams then go for it.

I'll try and get some pictures of mine tonight. If memory serves I've got sections of 8x8 beam that go more than 25'. Forget manhandling anything, I wonder if that much weight wouldn't tip a lull. I'd be using an excavator if I had to do it. Stong, agile, and much quicker than a crane or lull.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Excavator does not have the reach. All the ones I have watched being dismantled, were done with a lull, tele handler.

They wont fall over if there is no siding or roof. 

They are simple structures, but not poorly built.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

My barn. Those big beams are about 10x10 x 30-35', no splice, have fun getting those down.

Then there is the roof. Those are small trees braches ripped in half with lath running perpendicular, cover in wood shakes then metal. I can not even begin to imagine how you would get that roof off the structure of this thing.

Granted this is a very old barn in poor shape. It would be different for a barn in better shape/circumstances.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

You might want to get an estimate on what it would cost you to reuse those
members on your new home.
If just for decorative ambiance,maybe finding some pieces locally would be more cost effective.
If you expect to use these for framework,you may be in for a long and complicated planning stage to get approval from the local BI,as well as an engineer's stamp for submitted plans.
Also,you'll have to consider erection costs,and added framing costs to work into or around this skeleton of P&B's.
This is all custom work and the time and expense will be a lot more than a standard framing costs.

This was done locally,and final building costs(sq/ft) more than doubled by the end of the build.

Just something to take into consideration before you get too deep into this.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

In going to chime in on this. I have to agree that reusing timbers for structural use is going to be really tough. You'll be fighting mortise locations, checking and twisting etc. unless the beams are huge and you can mill them down again I wouldn't consider using them for anything other than decorative/aesthetic purposes. Taking the barn down would be fun. I would use a lull not a crane. I wouldn't be too worried about the thing falling down, but you do need experience to spot weaknesses etc. so, you might want to walk through with someone who knows what they are doing and see what they have to say. Got any pics?


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Morning Wood said:


> I would use a lull not a crane.


The only reason to use a Lull, not a crane would be because that is what you are used to using. A crane is much more precise, has many more rigging options and is SAFER. 

I would have to disagree on that one.


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## TAHomeRepairs (Jun 18, 2012)

mudpad said:


> The only reason to use a Lull, not a crane would be because that is what you are used to using. A crane is much more precise, has many more rigging options and is SAFER.
> 
> I would have to disagree on that one.


There is also cost, you could use a lull for a day for the cost of an hour with a crane. what is this safer that you speak of?


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

mudpad said:


> The only reason to use a Lull, not a crane would be because that is what you are used to using. A crane is much more precise, has many more rigging options and is SAFER.
> 
> I would have to disagree on that one.


I guess the real deciding factor is site access. I only say lull because you can dink around with dropping a few beams here and there and moving stacks at your leisure. A crane would really want to have a production line setup so you weren't wasting time and money. Assembling definitely a crane.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

TAHomeRepairs said:


> There is also cost, you could use a lull for a day for the cost of an hour with a crane. what is this safer that you speak of?


Safer, as in less death.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

mudpad said:


> Safer, as in less death.


OR INJURY...:thumbsup:


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## 4 seasons lawn& (Jan 25, 2008)

wow. Lots of info! I'll have to read through this again but its sounding less appealing to me at this point. 
All the timber frame kits today are using softwood so I figured with the old oak beams that the old mortises wouldn't bother anything structurally. This was also suggested to me by a builder. If I did it, Im not sure how I would get the plans stamped w/out having the materials ahead of time to inspect. The kits are starting to sound better though.
The other thing is, I did think taking down the barn would be a fun project.


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## Millar (Apr 19, 2013)

Barn reuse happens around here , usually back up as a barn so the rules are less stringent. More of the beams get recut for flooring , I helped unload some hemlock flooring a few years ago that looked like crap , even came with a bag of knots . the floor looked good when they were done . Neighbours barn just got demoed they took the steel off and pulled it down. I have put steel on barn roofs when I was much younger ,if you don't like heights or take the risk of some one else up there hire somebody that knows what they are doing and are insured for it. If it is any amish make sure they are insured .


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Millar said:


> If it is any amish make sure they are insured .


Amish and Insured is an oxymoron. My county is the amish capital of the world. So many they are moving out because of no work and inbreeding. Huge amount of birth defects and hereditary deceases. Will be more amish than regular soon. 

I don't know of one that has insurance. They have a "church insurance" system. It is against their belief to buy regular insurance. Maybe things are different elsewhere.


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## SAW.co (Jan 2, 2011)

HEY 4SEASON,

Show us some pics of this barn before you start this project.


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