# Armored cable in commercial kitchen



## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Currently there is a switch box (fed by EMT) and light switch located awkwardly behind an ice machine and the customer wants it moved. The new location is around a small corner which would require a few pretty tight bends plus the offset since my EMT bending skills aren't the greatestI would prefer to use armored cable here. Is there anything in the code that would restrict me from doing this?
TIA.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

AC is an accepted method in the NEC. However many areas don't allow it unless if falls under certain criteria.

Google your towns "Anytown Electrical Code Amendments"

That will give you a starting point.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

You also need to consider from box to box it has the be ½" AC. If you were going from box to light it could be ⅜" AC.

Tom


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> You also need to consider from box to box it has the be ½" AC. If you were going from box to light it could be ⅜" AC.
> 
> Tom



Good to know. What's the reasoning behind that?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Might not work for you.... but if under permit, I'd just ask the BO.

I can't quote NEC, and in my case it was just quickest easiest to ask the BO.

I was under permit for required repairs on sale (a Cali/Marin Co issue that I won't go into), and the garage had been strung with non metalic liquid tight surface mounted.(it was a grow house formerly).

I just had to clean-up/float and lower a sub panel and GFI it up. The BO had no problem with the liquid-tight, as long as it was securely mounted.... so I just clipped it every 12".

So.... I assume AC would have been OK...


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

"320.12 Uses Not Permitted. Type AC cable shall not be used as follows:
Where subject to physical damage
In damp or wet locations
In air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness
Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors
Embedded in plaster finish on brick or other masonry in damp or wet locations"
https://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/bsc.ca.gov/gov.ca.bsc.2010.03.html#p70-175

Since this is probably subject to physical damage it looks like I'll have to mess around with EMT for an hour to move this damn box. Time to dig up my conduit bender. :laughing:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

aptpupil said:


> Good to know. What's the reasoning behind that?


Minimum size allowed is 1/2" with an exception to use 3/8" for lights and a few other applications. Easy to over fill 3/8" AC. 

Look into using surface raceway such as Wiremold.

Tom


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

aptpupil said:


> "320.12 Uses Not Permitted. Type AC cable shall not be used as follows:
> Where subject to physical damage
> In damp or wet locations
> In air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness
> ...


Yes.... to the extent that a BO will assess that to be subject to physical damage..... Is it reasonably subject to physical damage?

Well... on the good side....experience and a bunch of bad bends will give you experience with the bender....


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> Minimum size allowed is 1/2" with an exception to use 3/8" for lights and a few other applications.* Easy to over fill 3/8" AC. *
> Look into using surface raceway such as Wiremold.
> 
> Tom


Pretty easy to overfill 1/2 also.... maybe 3" would be better... do they make it.... 

sorry.... just do not understand some regs.... seems as if you think you might need another run, you'd put in a larger conduit... not be regulated to do so.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Pretty easy to overfill 1/2 also.... maybe 3" would be better... do they make it....
> .


Yes.

http://www.southwire.com/products/GalFlex.htm

Tom


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> sorry.... just do not understand some regs.... seems as if you think you might need another run, you'd put in a larger conduit... not be regulated to do so.


It has nothing to do with whether you might need another run. Conduit fill regs are concerned with the potential heat buildup from having too many current-carrying conductors crammed into an enclosed space.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

aptpupil said:


> "320.12 Uses Not Permitted. Type AC cable shall not be used as follows: Where subject to physical damage In damp or wet locations In air voids of masonry block or tile walls where such walls are exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors Embedded in plaster finish on brick or other masonry in damp or wet locations" https://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/bsc.ca.gov/gov.ca.bsc.2010.03.html#p70-175 Since this is probably subject to physical damage it looks like I'll have to mess around with EMT for an hour to move this damn box. Time to dig up my conduit bender. :laughing:


Yeah do it the right way. I had to replace some AC in a commercial building with EMT because it had worn and shorted. Regular AC can't take much abuse over time, but there is a vinyl coated AC which is more durable, they are used outside in parking lots. Don't know if it would be allowed for what you are doing though.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

If you don't want to bend conduit, then depending on how beautiful it needs to be, why not an LB or pull elbow? I'm assuming that it's accessible.


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## joeh20 (Jan 4, 2012)

I only use AC or flexible conduit where it is required, not where it is just convenient. You have many options to use LB,LR pulling ELbow, pre bent 90's and even offset connectors, or even install it in PVC and use all the fitting available there. But just to go from a box to a box and not install a hard pipe option just wouldn't work for me. AC is ok for a whip to a fixture, or to be used on a motor that might need some vibration isolation, or where equipment may need to be moved as part of regular service. But it will look like what it is if you use it where, although permitted, should not be installed. Run the right pipe for the right job and you and everyone that sees it from now on will respect you and be glad you did, including yourself. You will get better bending EMT if you do it enough and here's your chance.


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## chewy (May 23, 2010)

aptpupil said:


> Currently there is a switch box (fed by EMT) and light switch located awkwardly behind an ice machine and the customer wants it moved. The new location is around a small corner which would require a few pretty tight bends plus the offset since my EMT bending skills aren't the greatestI would prefer to use armored cable here. Is there anything in the code that would restrict me from doing this?
> TIA.


Take it back up to the ceiling and drop down into the new location and re use the existing EMT if its just a straight drop from the ceiling. 

Running AC is going to look worse than poorly done EMT, IMO.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> You also need to consider from box to box it has the be ½" AC. If you were going from box to light it could be ⅜" AC.
> 
> Tom





aptpupil said:


> Good to know. What's the reasoning behind that?





tjbnwi said:


> Minimum size allowed is 1/2" with an exception to use 3/8" for lights and a few other applications. Easy to over fill 3/8" AC.
> 
> 
> Tom





Tinstaafl said:


> It has nothing to do with whether you might need another run. Conduit fill regs are concerned with the potential heat buildup from having too many current-carrying conductors crammed into an enclosed space.


TIN.... Actually, your's was my initial thought, that a light was less likely to draw full amps than a recep branch....

but just interested in the logic of 3/8 for a light loop, but 1/2 for a recep branch (assuming same A/fill) that TJB explained????

TIA


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> TIN.... Actually, your's was my initial thought, that a light was less likely to draw full amps than a recep branch....
> 
> but just interested in the logic of 3/8 for a light loop, but 1/2 for a recep branch (assuming same A/fill) that TJB explained????
> 
> TIA


If you are limited to supplying a light only, the maximum number of conductors would be 3- 14ga., (ungrounded, grounded and ground) at times only 2 conductors. 

½" allows for a greater number and lager conductors. 

Tom


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> You also need to consider from box to box it has the be ½" AC. If you were going from box to light it could be ⅜" AC.
> 
> Tom





aptpupil said:


> Good to know. What's the reasoning behind that?





tjbnwi said:


> Minimum size allowed is 1/2" with an exception to use 3/8" for lights and a few other applications. Easy to over fill 3/8" AC.
> 
> 
> Tom





tjbnwi said:


> If you are limited to supplying a light only, the maximum number of conductors would be 3- 14ga., (ungrounded, grounded and ground) at times only 2 conductors.
> 
> ½" allows for a greater number and lager conductors.
> 
> Tom


Tom...TJB.... I do understand that.... but why (what is the logic as Andy asked) can't you use 3/8 for a simple 15A single branch recep box run (hot/neutral/grd-14Gage)


Best

Peter


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Tom...TJB.... I do understand that.... but why (what is the logic as Andy asked) can't you use 3/8 for a simple 15A single branch recep box run (hot/neutral/grd-14Gage)
> 
> 
> Best
> ...


The why is so far above my pay grade, I would not venture a guess. That's like asking why we have to us EMT minimum here. 

To clarify 3/8", can be used in a few other limited applications. Connecting motors under a certain horse power comes to mind. 

Tom


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> The why is so far above my pay grade, I would not venture a guess. That's like asking why we have to us EMT minimum here.
> 
> To clarify 3/8", can be used in a few other limited applications. Connecting motors under a certain horse power comes to mind.
> 
> Tom


Yes... I'm with ya.......:thumbsup:

I just hate rules/regs where I don't understand/know the reason/logic....

Best
Peter


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