# Varnish For Exterior Doors



## leroy (Feb 11, 2007)

I have 2 exterior oak doors we stained and applied 3 coats Helmsmann Spar Varnish to last fall and they are now flaking. I am wondering what the best way to resolve this problem is and what would be my best choice for a clear coat. I have not seen the doors yet. The homeowner called me on them and told me they are flaking and look horrible.

Thank You,

LeRoy


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## Jethroe (Jan 27, 2007)

*Don't Use Varnish Again.*



leroy said:


> exterior oak doors we stained and applied 3 coats Helmsmann Spar Varnish to last fall and they are now flakin


 Did you use Minwax Stain?? If so what stain on Oak? Try taking the doors off and lightly sanding the rough flaky areas w/ 220 Grt. sand paper and working them down w/300 to 400 grt ( Steel wool them). then use Minwax Clear Shield. prep the doors and brush it on. The stained should still be fine as long as you dont sand down past the Spar.Clean doors by wiping Wipe down with a damp M.E.K tack cloth before applying the Clear :thumbsup: Shield...http://www.minwax.com/products/protective/clear-shield.cfm


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## welovepainting (May 24, 2007)

leroy said:


> I have 2 exterior oak doors we stained and applied 3 coats Helmsmann Spar Varnish to last fall and they are now flaking. I am wondering what the best way to resolve this problem is and what would be my best choice for a clear coat. I have not seen the doors yet. The homeowner called me on them and told me they are flaking and look horrible.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> LeRoy



I have not read any other post but that varnish sux. Strip it and use marine or sikkens satin or semi gloss varnish


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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

One of my sundries providers informed me that Helmsman is nothing but interior poly in a different can. It's not worth sinking money into. You generally put out quite a few dollars to get a good marine spar varnish. The stuff on the shelf most places is junk. That includes our store. I carry Absolute, but the UV absorbers contained are only .50%. I'd stock Sikkens Marine but at $105 a gallon no one around here would buy it.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

I can't speak for that product, but the fix is to strip and re-varnish
Is it on the water?
I would consider a real marine quality varnish


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

gideond said:


> I'd stock Sikkens Marine but at $105 a gallon no one around here would buy it.


That's not a bad price at all if it really is a marine quality varnish
Really...it's not cheap, but it's not expensive (as far as that stuff goes)


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Marine varnishes really bolster the UV protection but it sounds more like an ADHESION problem or maybe just not enough varnish to begin with.

From bare wood and with oil; reduce the varnish by 50% for the first 2-3 coats rubbing with OO steel wool between each coat. For a yacht finish, just continue this for 15 or so coats.

Not so picky? Do the first coats and back off on the reducer (10-15%) for everything but the finals (about 7-8 coats).


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## Dale (Aug 26, 2004)

Did you seal the bottom edges?


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Why spar? Highly overrated imho. It has it's uses but.... I can show you doors i've done 5 years ago that still look great (yes I check), here's my system for fine wood (NOTE, doesn't work as well with cheapos) -

Lightly wipe with rag/spirits (LIGHT spirits)
Old masters with lambswool pads, then heavily rubbed in
Tacked with cheesecloth
Shellac sanding sealer (argue all you want, makes a GREAT undercoat)
Sand until every inch is smooth and white
Tacked with cheesecloth
POLY Varnish, at least two coats

In the extremly high humidity with a few sea breezes at times, high heat and woodrot to keep a carpenter happy his whole life... that system works for me, and my customers.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Remember to use gloss for all coats except the final. The flattening agents (usually zinc oxide) will make the varnish look cloudy if used on all coats.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Good point Teetor, I normally use gloss on all doors, if they don't want the shine i'll use semi for the final.... only twice have I not used my system, once for a contractor that insisted waterborne only, finish failed in less than 6 months... other was for a rental, door finish failed in a year... most people that own an outside wood door know it's gonna cost before they even call.


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## gary lee (Feb 17, 2007)

Brush why use the shellac as a sealer is it because it dries fast (faster recoat time)? I have only brushed shellac a couple of times it man was it a mother to keep up with (wet edge). Do you spray the shellac or brush it? If you brush the shellac what is the key to keeping the window open long enough not to get brush strokes or roping. I have been using Minwax satin spar varnish on doors and have not been happy with the performance. As Teetorbilt said, is the key to a front door that is varnished lasting, 5 or more coats of whatever product?

Gary


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Oh no... I don't use shellac for topcoats.... not in years. I use oil stains and oil poly for doors, just the sanding sealer itself I find to be superior to latex or oil based products... just like in certain cases tinted white shellac primer is the best thing going, in neither case are you worried about being brittle as you use it for the adhesion, not the finish.


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## DeanV (Feb 20, 2006)

Don't you think that a brittle sealer coat would still be the weakest link in your system, Brushslinger? My thinking is that your more flexible topcoats would be limited my your inflexible sealer coat. Of course, I am in Michigan, so we have a lot more extreme temperature and humidity swings than you do. I would not trust the shellac coat here and I have been trying to use more waterbornes to preserve long term flexibility. I still have not decided on the best system yet. My best luck so far has been with the waterbornes, but I am thinking about oil poly next.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Not really dean... thing is a sanding sealer is sorta like a primer on bare sheetrock, made to be sanded... you pick your product on ease of use, application, dry time and sandability.... not brittle or not. When I use a shellac sanding sealer it tends to bring up more hairs, sand better and I get a smoother finish imo... true, may not work for you but it does me.  Only problem with my system is... I work myself out of woodwork for too many years.


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