# Subway tile Shower remodel



## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

Here's a shower remodel we completed a couple weeks ago.
Tile is 2 3/4" x 6 1/4" subway tile imported from Spain.
And a travertine mosaic shower pan.
With two recessed soap / shampoo shelfs.

few pics attached

to see more of our work,

visit our website, http://www.cupantileandpaint.com


----------



## fastg60 (Feb 20, 2006)

looks great! i'm getting ready to do another one next week. i just finished framing everything in today and i'm putting up the denshield tomorrow.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Looking good! I really liked the drain, no hair is going to clog that up!:laughing:


----------



## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

very nice.


----------



## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

fastg60, where are you using denshield?
why would you ever use denshield

USE CBU!


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Looks nice. When I read subway tile I was thinking ugh, nasty glazed subway tile, was nice to be surprised.


----------



## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Nice work Matt.

Quick question: Could you or someone enlighten me as to what travertine tile is? I see and hear bout it a lot but I'm curious to what it is exactly that makes it so popular lately.

Thanks.


----------



## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

MattCoops said:


> fastg60, where are you using denshield?
> why would you ever use denshield
> 
> USE CBU!


One reason would be because Denshield creates a waterproof barrier to protect the framing, while CBU does not. Granted, it takes a lot of water and time to soak thru CBU, but it does happen, and if there's not a secondary waterscreen there, the framing will rot.

The other reason would be cost and weight- why screw around with cement board underlayment and the difficulties of cutting it when Denshield does the same (and more) with less work?

Bob


----------



## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

DecksEtc said:


> Nice work Matt.
> 
> Quick question: Could you or someone enlighten me as to what travertine tile is? I see and hear bout it a lot but I'm curious to what it is exactly that makes it so popular lately.
> 
> Thanks.


Travertine is a stone that's typically quarried in Italy (though it's also found in China, Turkey and a few other places. It's often called "travertine limestone" or "travertine marble", but it's actually neither limestone or marble. It's typically a light beige color with some veining and variation, and often comes with a pitted surface that may of not be filled prior to installation. It's most commonly used with a honed surface, but can be polished as well.

It's popular because it's relatively cheap for a natural stone, and has become moreso as its popularity has increased. Personally, I'm a little sick of seeing so much of it (it seems like everyone has it on their backsplashes).

Bob


----------



## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

you're right
CBU is not waterproof
but neither is DensShield
in no form or way.
It too will soak up water and fall apart
Don't believe me? let a sheet set out in the rain for a while.

Ok 
point proven

and also, Bob Kouvaks, "consultant",
if you consult, the TCA hanbook
you'll find that it states to cover studs and subfloor of shower with 15 lb roofing felt as a moisture barrier.

And if you want to be super cool, you could always do 2 coats of Red Guard over cured pan mud and CBU.


----------



## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

MattCoops said:


> you're right
> CBU is not waterproof
> but neither is DensShield
> in no form or way.
> ...


Don't get your panties all in a wad there Matt. Now take a deep breath......

Yes, Denshield would soak up water if you laid it outside in the rain- mostly from the exposed edges, which wouldn't be exposed if they were sealed properly in a shower installation. To take your "point proven" to a new level, why don't you take a 1' square of Denshield and a 1' square of CBU and set them both horizontally over a bucket, and create a dammed puddle of water in the middle of the sheet. Care to guess as to while material would have water soak through it first??

And yes, I do consult- sometimes for homeowners, but usually for contractors who are clueless about proper installation and/or business practices. I'm well aware of the TCA's recommendations for a moisture barrier behind the backerboard- unfortunately, probably 80-90% of the tile setters I've met aren't. I actually referred to it in my post, mainly because no one had mentioned the presence of a moisture barrier previously.

Finally, you're correct- a good coating such as Red Guard would be even more betterer.........

Bob


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Hey!

Let's really get into a debate about controversial underlayments!

I got this from one of my tile houses - Easy Mat from Custom Building Products.

It's a roll out *peal and stick mat *to use as an underlayment for tile and stone! 25 times lighter than backer boards. Stuff looks just like carpet pad, says it doesn't mold, rot, shrink or absorb water. 











mms://www.custombuildingproducts.com/videos/150Keng/vidEasyMat_150k_en.wmv?user=pro&lang=en

Watch the video!


----------



## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

This can't go by without ole Bud getting involved.

Denshield is considered and sold as a waterproof tilebacker but you have to address the fastener penetrations and the seams to maintain the waterproof attributes of the surface. The foundation of Denshield WILL NOT come apart in water, like all cement boards water has no effect on the foundation material. I personally have soaked Denshield in a bucket of water where it sat all summer with no effect on the product in any way. At one point I also purposely peeld the surface material off of the piece that had been soaking for months and about 1/4" from the edges the foundation material was infact dry. So...draw your own conclusions.

Matt I guess I'm not understanding where you are getting your information about Denshield but your comments are not at all accurate.

A moisture barrier is recommended on the studs under all of the tilebacker boards that are not waterproof but NOT recommended behind the boards that are waterproof. To do so creates a trap for condensation that is not desireable. Roofing felt can be substituted with 4-6 mil poly as the layers of lapping poly won't create a proud spot in the wallboard like roofing felt will.

The same (do's and don'ts) would go for a shower floor I would think. Using waterproofing over the cement that is cast atop a vinyl pan liner wouldn't be necessary and may be problematic. Liquid waterproofing on the subsurface of a shower floor offers no seal to the drain either.

Schluter offers an answer to this surface waterproofing with their KERDI Mat and KERDI Drain products.

Latticrete offers a concept of using liquid waterproofing for a shower floor but special attention must be paid to the area around the drain and they specify a manner in which to design and do this. Simply painting the product onto the surface will not suffice.


----------



## R&D Tile (Apr 5, 2005)

Oh and, ah never mind.:whistling


----------



## Dan Gibson Tile (Mar 26, 2006)

hi don't any of you mud your shower. i live in cali been doing tile for 25 years.i float all my shower .have my pans hot mop.is it u guy dont know how to float with mud . i would never used cement board how to here y thanks


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Key board keys stuck or somethin'?:laughing: Damn!

Anyways, CA is the land of the hot mop, anybody outside of CA would be bringing you a mop bucket filled with hot water if you said you needed to hot mop a shower. Mud shower pans aren't even that common anywhere.


----------



## bbravo (Sep 17, 2007)

I have a question about pitted tile. Most of the time we have installed it with a darker grout and have never had an issues with grout staying in the pits when we are done, but this last project was with lighter grout. Although I think it actually blends the grout with the tile, I have always thought the nature of the grouting process is going to leave some grout in the deep pits until it works its way out - or did we not do a good job cleaning? If its not grout going into the pits, its going to be dirt?


----------



## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Any time I've worked with tumbled stone, it was made clear right from the start that all deep pits would be filled. My reasoning is that if the grout doesn't fill them, something else will, especially in some place like a backsplash or bathroom. I do know of some people who've been adamant about the pits being cleaned out. Of course, of those I speak of, also decided they wanted their shower tumbled marble butted up tight, too...... WITHOUT grout. Someone I met in another forum about a year ago. They were so proud of it when their installer finished it, too. I haven't heard any complaints about it, but then again, I might be a little hard pressed to voluntarily go into a forum where I'd gotten a little heated in defense of this and eat crow.

Bottom line-- if someone asked me to install and leave the pits empty, I'd pass on the job.



Hey Matt-- not bad for the first job!!


----------



## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

matt look into kerdi better than anything out there. 

Finley good thing you don't work in Wash park every other job I do is subway tilesin shower mosaic on floor an dbead board on walls outside shower.


----------



## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

bbravo:

The only way to keep the grout from staying in the travertine holes is to mask the stuff off with duct tape first, or grout about 20 square feet at a time. Even if it is grouted in small pieces, it will be impossible to get all the grout out. I told a customer once that there was no way to keep the holes clean in the tile which his wife has chosen, and invited him to grout with me. After we were done, he decided to grout once again so that all the holes would be equally full, that is we didn't try to empty them.

Definitely something to consider when choosing tile-and grout color.

Your comment about it filling with something else is splendifous. Why would anyone want a lot of holes in their floor to fill up with dog excrement?


----------

