# Charging a full blade price for one job?



## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

*Business & Honesty*

6 string............Don't lose site of the bottom line in this discussion.
Your " Honesty " is in the product you deliver. There are so many things that can be hidden in that catagory and we see them every day. I think they're called "shortcuts and inexperience" When you're "Honest" with your quality & your product, the salami game goes away. (nicely stated by Mike Finley)
Never itemize. It's your business how much stuff costs you. LOL


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

6stringmason said:


> Whatever happened to honesty? Is that a dying trait in contractors now?


It definitely is in my area of SC. 

Its true you can charge whatever you want for labor and materials (blades) its also true that you can be in business strictly for making as much money as possible. In my view though this model can backfire real easily. Practice this model long enough in any community and your reputation will suffer which you cant really put a price on and when your reputation starts to suffer then you actually start losing jobs (money). There are quite a few contractors around here who are just limping along (and being sued) because they were/are not men of character i.e. dishonest on some level. Now i'm not saying that those of you who don't disclose your L&M are being dishonest, in my view is your final price Fair to yourself and your customer if it is then who cares how you come to it. 

Peter Cartwright in his interesting book on bricklaying says that the secret to enjoying longterm success in the bricklaying business is to charge fair prices and do excellent work. Quite simple! 

Earlier this year I had a contractor who asked me to bid on a job. Well I didn't really do my due diligence and punch the #'s like I should of so I threw him a huge # not really thinking to much about it. Well he gave me the job, I made lots of money, and somewhere in the middle the contractor realized I was robbing him. Well I don't think that contractor is going to be calling me again, and he alone would have a lifetime's worth of work for me doing high end hardscapes. My bad and lesson learned by me.

Anyway my 2 cents


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

lukachuki said:


> Peter Cartwright in his interesting book on bricklaying says that the secret to enjoying longterm success in the bricklaying business is to charge fair prices and do excellent work. Quite simple!


Exactly my point. Fair prices. A diamond blade is not a specialty tool that a homeowner should be charged $400 dollars for, for the small job of cutting the block and brick out. 

I guess in my eyes, I chalk it up as an overhead expense. I dont 'hide' things into my price, and if someone wants to see how I came up with my price, I have nothing to hide and I will show them.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

6stringmason said:


> Well when I see people start talking about 'hiding' costs and saying its none of the customers business how you come up with the price, thats kind of disappointing. Whatever happened to honesty? Is that a dying trait in contractors now?


It's an interesting point, but it's the chicken or the egg, which came first?

In a true market, buyers and sellers get together, supply and demand is the major force, as supply dwindals and demand goes up the prices buyers have to pay goes up. What has that got to do with how much a blade cost you?

If a guy comes into the market and doesn't know his costs and starts presenting bids at 1/2 the normal market rate is it because he has lower blade costs or because he doesn't know his true expenses? If everybody else is charging $1200 for the job and he comes in all the time at $600.00 is the honest price for the job $600 and the dishonest price $1200?


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> It's an interesting point, but it's the chicken or the egg, which came first?
> 
> In a true market, buyers and sellers get together, supply and demand is the major force, as supply dwindals and demand goes up the prices buyers have to pay goes up. What has that got to do with how much a blade cost you?
> 
> If a guy comes into the market and doesn't know his costs and starts presenting bids at 1/2 the normal market rate is it because he has lower blade costs or because he doesn't know his true expenses? If everybody else is charging $1200 for the job and he comes in all the time at $600.00 is the honest price for the job $600 and the dishonest price $1200?


For the job mentioned in the first post on this thread, the charge for a $400 blade is unbelievable. Its not a specialty tool. Its a standard among masons. Just like a trowel. If you dont have one or the other, you're no mason.

So in my eyes, to charge $400 for this is dishonest.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

when was the last time a carpenter charged for his table saw?or a mechanic charge you for having to use his socket set to work on your car?the concrete man for his power trowel?they are all tools of our trades,without them we wouldnt be called masons,carpenters.....we would all be called handy men.:no: 
if i bid a job where i charge by the hour,i give them my hourly rate,which includes........MEN AND EQUIPMENT...equipment meaning ALL
tools of my trade.
someone in this thread mentioned if you charge for a new blade,does the HO not have the right to ask for the blade at the end of the job?i think they do.if not what keeps that contractor from charging the next customer for the same blade?
ill admit in my younger days,when i was subing stone work from a siding company,if i had metal lath left over from a job and used it on the next job for them,i charged them again for the same lath.i dont do it now days.if there is lath left over and the home owner paid for it.i leave it for them.

:saddam: :hang: :clap:


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

My markup is non negotiable.There is no need to disclose it,it's my business.If this makes me dishonest then I'm in the same ranks as any other retail business and the whole system is corrupt.It's not about a fair price.There is really no way to set a fair price,it's just a concept.It's all about a competitive price.
I have many tools I have had for years.They can be maintained and fixed.A saw blade is a disposable item,sometimes multiple times on the same job.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

tkle said:


> My markup is non negotiable.There is no need to disclose it,it's my business.If this makes me dishonest then I'm in the same ranks as any other retail business


You're not in the retail business. There IS a difference.


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

6stringmason said:


> You're not in the retail business. There IS a difference.


Not really,I'm selling a finished product for money.Business is business.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Unless the homeowner is re-selling your finished product, you ARE in the retail business.


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

Tscarborough said:


> Unless the homeowner is re-selling your finished product, you ARE in the retail business.



The "Homeowner" in this case has major problems with contractors in his area. With the exception of HVAC, *NONE of the trades want to work for this guy!*:no:


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Tscarborough said:


> Unless the homeowner is re-selling your finished product, you ARE in the retail business.


Then the homeowner gets to keep the blade. He is paying full price for it. so it should be included as material. Homeowners own all material at the end of a job, no?


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

The tax laws here are really strange about this.

Here, technically the blades do not become part of the finished product and, therefore are not saleable or taxable.

We went over this once involving welding. Our position was that the major part of the rods/wires/gasses were incorporated into parts for resale, the State thought otherwise. Guess who won?

Now I just tack anything that is questionable onto the bottom line. At least I don't get burned THAT way.


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Chris G said:


> Then the homeowner gets to keep the blade. He is paying full price for it. so it should be included as material. Homeowners own all material at the end of a job, no?


NO.I'm selling a finished product,I don't sell material.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

stacker said:


> when was the last time a carpenter charged for his table saw?or a mechanic charge you for having to use his socket set to work on your car?the concrete man for his power trowel?they are all tools of our trades,without them we wouldn't be called masons,carpenters.....we would all be called handy men.:no:
> :


I understand the thought, but the concept can be flawed. I didn't own a drywall hoist, I used to rent one and charge it out to the customer plus a % on top of the rental. Now I own one and don't charge a fee when we use it. Was I dishonest before?


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Boy I never thought from the initial question this would have gone on so long.

From the original question was it ever known if the GC owns a saw? Is the GC doing the cutting? and quite a few other questions on how the work was bid or will be done.

Everyone has said how they do it. Isn't it only fair to base an answer on how the GC planned to do it. Without knowing that how could we tell anyone a balanced answer. Many seem to think the blade charge is to high for what they would charge. What if our bid on that job came in $ 2000.00 more than what he estimated for the total job. Would we then say his charges are to high.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> I understand the thought, but the concept can be flawed. I didn't own a drywall hoist, I used to rent one and charge it out to the customer plus a % on top of the rental. Now I own one and don't charge a fee when we use it. Was I dishonest before?


no,and if you read my earlier post i covered that.if i know i will use up a new blade on one job,i add it into my bid,or if i need more scaffold than i own and have to rent it it is included in my bid.
i think what 6string is getting at is contractors who charge full price for a blade and use a portion of it,then go to the next job and charge for the same blade and so on.that to me is dishonest.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It is not dishonest, it is self defeating. They will be underbid, no matter if they itemize or not.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I guess for me the hardest thing to understand is why anybody would do business in such a way. Why would anybody word an estimate for a job in that way? What is to be gained by line item estimates? I just assume that an estimate is a guess, an educated guess at best. Maybe you use 1/3 of the blade normally, maybe this time you only use 1/4, maybe you use 2/3. So you come up with a best guess or x amount of dollars for this and x for that. But once you put it in writing like that you are creating a measurable thing for a customer. He could get his ruller out and measure what you use and don't use. Like has been said before, he could demand the blade at the end of the job. How many people hit it dead on? Why in the world would anybody put that into an estimate in the first place?


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Better I should pass the cost on to the next customer where I don't need a blade.Now that would be a rip.Someone has to pay for it.I'm not in the business of buying blades.I don't need tools.A big rock for a hammer and a broken piece of slate to spread mud and I'd still be a mason.


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