# Cost of a start-up on a minisplit ductless A/C unit.



## g.peterrichards (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm a remodeling contractor getting a bid together for a garage conversion. After its all said and done the area of the room is 165 sq ft. 

OK, I get on the phone w/a supplier and I'm told that a 9,000 BTU ductless mini-split would be a good idea for this type of application, but that a licensed HVAC guy will have to do what's called a "start up" otherwise the warrantee would be voided....a "start up" is where the pressure is checked and some other things are done and this and that are checked and so on and like that . OK no problem. I get on line and find the closets friendly neighborhood HVAC guy. I tell him what I need, nothing fancy, a one hour job at best, and like that. So, how much?... ... WHAT!!!!>??????*^&%*^%@#[email protected]#%%^
Can you believe that this guy wanted NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS???!!
Now, I'm a pretty reasonable guy, and I understand very well the cost of doing business....I've been doing it for over 20 years, but NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS????? I nearly fell off my chair. After a few hhmmmms and hhhaaaaas, I told him, OK, I'll call you back. Yeah, right!!

Now, I ask you folks out there....How much should a start up for a wall mounted, 120 volt 9,000 BTU unit reasonably cost? Please tell me this guy must have been temporarily insane when he gave me that price.

Thank you.

Greg


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I don't know about just the "start-up" part, but I just got some quotes for a mini-split system for a garage conversion bid also(275 sf). All coming in around 4k and up for the complete job (yikes). This is with the electric panel on the same wall, straight shot through a brick wall for the pad outside, etc. It's a sweet niche to be in, apparently.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

We just paid about 11k for two Mitsubishi hyper heat heat pumps. 9k and 12k units. 
That aside, I think 9k unit is a bit large for something that size. 6k should be fine. Keep calling around for prices from guys. Might try a plumber too. Sometimes they charge them as well.


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## g.peterrichards (Apr 21, 2013)

Hello, Mark James - and everyone else.
I'll tell you what, in view of what you just told me I can understand a misunderstanding of what I need may have taken place here. BUT!!!! there isn't anything going on outside this client's home. It is a ductless system, no venting, no holes to be drilled, none of the "fun stuff" usually associated with after closing HVAC systems. But listen to this: I got another quote for a "start-up" from another local HVAC guy....$150.00 this time! Now THAT'S more like it!. I would have to think that for 4K, it includes the unit itself?, as well as everything else, (the mounting of the unit, start-up etc.) ?? I mean, my God, that's a lot of money!
When I received the $150.00 estimate, I got that "everything's OK again" feeling deep inside. YES!! it had me that upset! Well, like I said, everything IS OK again, except for justifying the 4K you mentioned, and still wondering why was I told $900 from the first guy I called. I think I'm going to call him back, just for my own FYI, to see if there WAS in fact some misunderstanding on his part as to what I was asking him to do for me.
Thanks for your reply MarkJames. I appreciate your input. By the way, can you tell me exactly what it is he's doing for you for the 4K? It's everything, from soup to nuts, right?
G.peterrichards


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

g.peterrichards said:


> Hello, Mark James - and everyone else.
> I'll tell you what, in view of what you just told me I can understand a misunderstanding of what I need may have taken place here. BUT!!!! there isn't anything going on outside this client's home. It is a ductless system, no venting, no holes to be drilled, none of the "fun stuff" usually associated with after closing HVAC systems. But listen to this: I got another quote for a "start-up" from another local HVAC guy....$150.00 this time! Now THAT'S more like it!. I would have to think that for 4K, it includes the unit itself?, as well as everything else, (the mounting of the unit, start-up etc.) ?? I mean, my God, that's a lot of money!
> When I received the $150.00 estimate, I got that "everything's OK again" feeling deep inside. YES!! it had me that upset! Well, like I said, everything IS OK again, except for justifying the 4K you mentioned, and still wondering why was I told $900 from the first guy I called. I think I'm going to call him back, just for my own FYI, to see if there WAS in fact some misunderstanding on his part as to what I was asking him to do for me.
> Thanks for your reply MarkJames. I appreciate your input. By the way, can you tell me exactly what it is he's doing for you for the 4K? It's everything, from soup to nuts, right?
> G.peterrichards


Yes, around $4000 and up range for "soup-to nuts", eg. Mr Slim or Daikin system, equipment & full install for heat & AC (heat pump, I think). I'm not sure where the exterior unit (condensor) would have been placed, but likely within 10 feet of the wall unit.


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## Eaglei (Aug 1, 2012)

I just got an estimate to replace a 5-ton compressor that was under water from sandy . I told HVAC contractor I would supply unit and line set . So all he would supply was his labor and a helpers . His number was $1800 for labor which was told it would take half a day . So I know how you must have felt . We went back and forth until he asked me what I thought was a fair price . That comment just cost him this job and a few more I have lined up . I dont understand why they feel that there entitled to charge that rate to a contractor .


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## g.peterrichards (Apr 21, 2013)

Good for you, my new friend. Yes, a half days work. That translates into $3,600.00 per DAY! WOW, are WE in the wrong business!!!
Greg


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Probably got the 900 dollar estimate because he really didn't want to do the job.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Some contractors are leery of installing customer supplied gear. It's been a topic at c.t. several times. There are also plenty of us who don't have a problem with customer gear, as long as we are both on the same page. Personally, I haven't had any problems with customer supplied gear. Once there was an issue with a bad motor. No need to harp on the who's liability thing, it was dealt with in a non confrontational manner, just needed to get the system running. 

Not every hvac contractor has an entitlement complex. There are plenty of us who respect the dollar.


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm pretty sure what you got is called the FU price. We all have one and if you say you don't, you're not being honest. 
Let's put it on you. Say I just called you out of the blue.

"Hey, how ya doin',
I see that your ad in the local paper says that you’re a licensed, insured remodeler and also an Anderson Certified Installer. 
Well, I just installed a bunch Anderson Renewal replacement windows in one of my customer's homes and need a Certified Anderson Installer to come out and inspect the installation and to sign off on them for warranty purposes. It shouldn't take more than an hour. I'll even have a ladder there if you need it for the second floor.
So, what kind of price you gonna give me for this?"


I'll bet your thought process would probably go something like this…
"So, you bought all these windows and then installed them… so you've already made all the real money and the gravy is gone out of this job...?
but you just need some hump that's actually qualified to come in and verify that everything you did is okee dokee so you can be off the hook for any installation problems or warranty issues that come up later...?
Sure, here's my price… if you're dumb enough to take it... FU buddy!!"


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## g.peterrichards (Apr 21, 2013)

OK I understand that position. But why then make the units user friendly? Anyone can install one of those ductless systems because its as simple as hanging it on the wall, plugging it in, and there you have it. The twist is that you MUST have a licensed HVAC guy do the start-up...and why not? You have to know what you're doing to check the system correctly. And given that, it's $150.00 for one hour's work! How is that a bad thing for HVAC?


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## g.peterrichards (Apr 21, 2013)

Like anything else, there are many sides to that situation. Pros and cons. Yings and yangs, etc., etc. The manufacturers don't lose a dime. The customer ends up paying the same amount they always paid, and the HVAC guy still make out. I don't make a dime as the contractor. I don't add on any "service charge" for the plumber's work or the electrical guys work and such. Perhaps alot of them do.....I don't. So, who really looses here? No one.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

What system/product are you using? Doesn't your system have a separate condenser unit outside?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

g.peterrichards said:


> OK I understand that position. But why then make the units user friendly? Anyone can install one of those ductless systems because its as simple as hanging it on the wall, plugging it in, and there you have it. The twist is that you MUST have a licensed HVAC guy do the start-up...and why not? You have to know what you're doing to check the system correctly. And given that, it's $150.00 for one hour's work! How is that a bad thing for HVAC?


It's like someone saying to you that they are going to build their own house but they want you to inspect everything so they can blame you for future problems.

900 bucks is a piss-off and go elsewhere price.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Rarely are these things just one hour. Nobody likes to hear a request, in which it starts out with "I just need you to....".

Having said that, the internet is a force not to be reckoned with. Customers are able to get equipment and parts on-line. So, it's even more critical to be customer service oriented. If somebody wants on-line gear installed, you will get farther by obliging to their needs (make your money on labor), or telling them politely that you only work with equipment that you purchase. F-U pricing just is a bad practice.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> It's like someone saying to you that they are going to build their own house but they want you to inspect everything so they can blame you for future problems.
> 
> 900 bucks is a piss-off and go elsewhere price.


I don't see how that would be offensive. They are paying you for their knowledge. One still can make a good living by inspecting customer built homes. It's probably better on the back as well. :thumbup:


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## Eaglei (Aug 1, 2012)

Hey Peterrichards the hvac contractor that gave me the $1800 price called me this morning and asked if we could talk . Long story short he said he would like to do business , I guess he realized that this may not be a one job deal .I had told him I use a few other hvac contractors just to keep their prices competetive . We struck a deal for no where near the original bid . I also told him I need a start -up on a panasonic mini split ,keep you posted .


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

It just comes down to the guy on the other end of the phone. Some have issues with that type of thing while others couldn't care less as long as the check clears. Just be prepared to get a few FU prices here and there before you find someone willing to do it for a more agreeable price.
As far as the manufactures, they are only concerned with moving product and don't care who installs it. They want anyone to be able to do it, which is why they make it so easy. They also didn't necessarily put the stipulation about having someone qualified to do the startup to quell all the flak they were getting from the HVAC community, they most likely did it more as leverage to get out of having to pay for parts and service on warranty claims.

As far as pricing goes around here, if a plumber, electrician or HVAC guy just pulls in your driveway and breaks wind getting out of the van that's $150.00 right there and he hasn't even made it to the front door yet. So for $150.00, I don't know if I would expect too much. 
I don't think the guy going to care if the factory flares on the lineset leak like sieve… or come back a few days later to service the unit after the charge has leaked out.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

g.peterrichards said:


> Like anything else, there are many sides to that situation. Pros and cons. Yings and yangs, etc., etc. The manufacturers don't lose a dime. The customer ends up paying the same amount they always paid, and the HVAC guy still make out. I don't make a dime as the contractor. I don't add on any "service charge" for the plumber's work or the electrical guys work and such. Perhaps alot of them do.....I don't. So, who really looses here? No one.


The HVAC guy. He doesn't get to make anything on the equipment.

150 bucks for an hour there isn't much. Considering he has to drive there, and the hour there he could be making more installing equipment he sold.


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## InterCounty (Apr 27, 2010)

I did just what you are doing two years ago in my own home.
Installed the handler, set the condenser on a pad outside, rans the line through a hole in the wall & ran a dedicated power line with exterior shut off.

Had a HVAC guy come and vac the lines, release the precharged system, and then check the pressure. $160 for about 45 mins including using the bathroom and yappin it up with me outside.

Fair price as I get $150 for a screen and top coat and it takes me less then an hour.

Or you could just by a vac pump and manifold gauges from Harbor Freight for $150, dyi and ignore the warranty. ...doh!


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