# Can some of you tiling guys lend a hand?



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

angus242 said:


> We're both talking about Ditra, right?
> 
> The fleece is mechanically bonded to the substrate....it does NOT "stop cracks"
> 
> ...


Yes it's bonded to the structure but it gives. If you had a 1/4" crack open up in the sub floor then whats going to give. The adhesive that fills all the little dove tails or the hairs that hold it to the sub floor! Why do you think Ditra can be removed so easy. The hairs make a bond that is strong enough to hold the tile to the floor but not strong enough to transfer the crack the the tile. If the crack didnt break the bond between the felt and the adhesive then the crack would progress to the next thing that will fail. That would be the thinset in each dovetail. 

As an example picture a layer of ditra with tile applied with thinset. You then use a machine to pull each side of the ditra. Whats going to give first. The adhesive will because of the way it protrudes into every dovetail. The plastic will stretch but the adhesive can only take so much. That is the reason for the felt. The felt can decouple with zero movement to the plastic above it and most important the thinset. It was about 10 years ago i watched a video demo of the product which showed the way the felt took the expansion.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> For the next year set all your tiles half on ditra and half directly on the subfloor and see which ones fair better.:thumbsup:


If both floors where built to same spec i would bet they would both last the exact same amount of time.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

BCConstruction said:


> Yes it's bonded to the structure but it gives. If you had a 1/4" crack open up in the sub floor then whats going to give. The adhesive that fills all the little dove tails or the hairs that hold it to the sub floor! Why do you think Ditra can be removed so easy. The hairs make a bond that is strong enough to hold the tile to the floor but not strong enough to transfer the crack the the tile. If the crack didnt break the bond between the felt and the adhesive then the crack would progress to the next thing that will fail. That would be the thinset in each dovetail.
> 
> As an example picture a layer of ditra with tile applied with thinset. You then use a machine to pull each side of the ditra. Whats going to give first. The adhesive will because of the way it protrudes into every dovetail. The plastic will stretch but the adhesive can only take so much. That is the reason for the felt. The felt can decouple with zero movement to the plastic above it and most important the thinset. It was about 10 years ago i watched a video demo of the product which showed the way the felt took the expansion.


Let's just agree to disagree. :blink:

I have not heard or seen anything you're describing. I have talked with Schluter reps. I have seen product demonstrations. I have been to the Schluter workshop. The fleece has never....NEVER been mentioned as stretching or whatever it is you claim it does.

I have supplied a direct quote from the Schluter website to back up what I'm saying. I have not seen any evidence from you about your claim. 

If anyone else is reading this, I urge you to go to the Schluter website and just read for yourself. You will see this exact statement..._*"through its open rib structure, *which allows for in-plane movement that effectively neutralizes the differential movement stresses between the substrate and the tile_"

Better yet, go here:
http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

Click on the installation video link in the upper right hand corner and it gives an animation of THE RIB STRUCTURE ABSORBING THE LATERAL MOVEMENT. There's the visual proof!

Thank you. Good night!


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Let's just agree to disagree. :blink:
> 
> I have not heard or seen anything you're describing. I have talked with Schluter reps. I have seen product demonstrations. I have been to the Schluter workshop. The fleece has never....NEVER been mentioned as stretching or whatever it is you claim it does.
> 
> ...


You could be right. I might be thinking of a different product after watching the video. Im almost certain that they said that the felt was the main reason for cracks not transmiting through to the tile. Im supprised that the adhesive can even flex like the video shows to be honest. When you pull up ditra you will see what i mean about it being impossible to get the tile from the ditra but very easy to remove ditra from thinset.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Lol that reply def wernt heated. just stating some facts about ditra. The strutt def does what it says on the box but its def not the perfect membrane. I have used others that are much better.


Which other products/makes are there similar to ditra?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

katoman said:


> Which other products/makes are there similar to ditra?


NobleSeal

Also, I have seen The Tile Shop knock-off.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks Angus. Have you used the Nobleseal, and do you think it is as good as, or better than the Ditra?

Also, are there differences between the two?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

katoman said:


> Thanks Angus. Have you used the Nobleseal, and do you think it is as good as, or better than the Ditra?
> 
> Also, are there differences between the two?



To me, the difference that makes me lean towards Ditra is the fact of the waffles or ribs that can absorb lateral deflection. There is no chemical bond between the substrate and the tile. 

NobleSeal is a quality product. I won't say one bad word about it. Actually, there are situations where NobleSeal is preferred.

Overall, it came down to personal preference. I chose Ditra.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Angus, tomorrow and Friday, I'm booked into the Schluter course. Hope to learn a couple of 'tricks of the trade' and get the technical info right from the source.

I'll post how it went, and what I learned. Taking my knee pads :thumbsup:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

katoman said:


> Which other products/makes are there similar to ditra?


There's a few. UK has many. they have Durabase ci, Genesis GMAT, Wedi sub liner, Noble, JN 503, Durock TM, Tilesafe, RIW Sheetseal Just to name a few. There's many more i aint used. For some reason there's many many many more systems avalible in the UK than over here.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

katoman said:


> Angus, tomorrow and Friday, I'm booked into the Schluter course. Hope to learn a couple of 'tricks of the trade' and get the technical info right from the source.
> 
> I'll post how it went, and what I learned. Taking my knee pads :thumbsup:


It will be very informative. Actually, the part I liked best was when they get into the "science" of thinset and why you use what they recommend. If you've never used Ditra or Kerdi before, make sure to push your way into the hands-on area and play away.

Just don't forget, the display you're about to see is all a marketing venture for Schluter. You're about to receive a boat-load of free stuff, including breakfast lunch and an impressive dinner....all in the name of selling!

Listen to the CONCEPT behind each product and use that to make your own decisions about the products you want to use! 

Oh yeah, and prepare for 2 arms full of free stuff at the very end :whistling


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Alright :clap: free stuff. 

I've used their product, but want to take the course for all the info, and better educate myself in it.

As BC states, there are other products, but the Schluter system is about all I've seen up here. Oh, and I don't buy it at the HD, but from my tile supplier.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Yea,*

Alright Katoman! :thumbsup: Can you get back to us on how it went- take some snaps if you can-:thumbup:
Brian


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Good idea. I'll take my camera. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*look forward*

to you getting back with your experience Katoman- BTW-hockey The Canadians won tonight against the Russians in the Olympics:thumbsup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

katoman said:


> Good idea. I'll take my camera. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.


You're gonna see a whole lotta Kerdi-Board.........


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*hey Katoman,,,*

How was the show?????? 
Brian


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