# Lowering your price....



## KELCON (Feb 19, 2011)

delete


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

KELCON said:


> ..........." Hi Garrett, Nice to hear from you again. As a man who prides himself in quality work to be asked to lower my price is a bit insulting, ........



You just lost that sale.





KELCON said:


> "........ I'm not sure if your a business owner or not but times are tough and business expenses are on the rise and when you run a 100% legal business ............"



Strike two. Unless you have financial backing (i.e., you 'sell' the paper) to do so, *never* 'carry' a customer.


Diplomacy reigns here. Something more like:

"Thank you for getting back in touch with me.

I truly hope I can help you out with your project. I prefer to provide my customers with the highest quality, both in products & material used as well as service before, during and after the project is completed.

If my price is not currently within your budget, perhaps there is a portion of it we can take out in order to move ahead. I also accept credit cards."

Next, learn how to place a time limit on your proposals. You may want to polish your English skills, too.... grammar counts!


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Hold firm, especially if you gave a competitive price. Life, living and everything involved is just too expensive now days to be giving anything away. Even the rich who can afford to give things away, don't


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I didn't read anything in his email asking you to lower your price. All he said is they can't afford the full amount of work as quoted.

Playing stupid is always the smartest move believe it or not when it comes to this stuff. 

Act dumb and just ask him -- what were you thinking? 

Never offer back a lower number, always ask the customer what he's thinking.

You start off with shooting him a 10% discount and the conversation between him and his wife might be "You know how I was going to talk to that contractor about seeing if we could lower the cost of the job by not doing X? Well he shot me back a 10% discount right off the bat! I just wanted to see if we could lower the cost by doing less, now we are getting everything done, but cheaper!!!"

Play dumb, never give up anything without getting the customer to quantify first what they are thinking. 

Start with lowering the scope of the work before lowering your profits.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> ...Start with lowering the scope of the work before lowering your profits.


Listen to Mike, he's got it in a nut shell. 

Scope of work changes before price does.
It's not your fault or problem that they can't afford what they want to do.


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## Subia29 (Feb 18, 2007)

Sounds to me, This guy has a budget . He likes everyone's proposal if he can get them down to where he's at. He already knows what he wants to spend on the project just telling you "Let me Know What you think."

Stand your ground with a firm price.

"I would Like to help you in these times, but this is a competive price."

"Something is not getting paid on this project ,and we dont cut any corners or jepordize loss of quality."

Kelcon 
You know what they say around here.
This might not be the customer for you.


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## BayouBengal (Jan 11, 2011)

KELCON said:


> As a man who prides himself in quality work to be asked to lower my price is a bit insulting


That was the nail in your deal's coffin right there :laughing:


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

I agree with most of the above....Either offer a new lower scope of work or state that the price you gave was competitive. 

Unless you have extremely high margins, you probably don't have much room to take your price down (and still make any money.)

Hold firm on your margin.


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## EMINNYS (Nov 29, 2010)

*Cash Helps*​ 





*.*​


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

EMINNYS said:


> *Cash Helps*​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How? :confused1:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

No one ever says "you're to cheap" even the ones who could pay more and might have estimated a higher price than you gave. Don't ever believe that just because a customer says the price is to high that the price is really to high. This is a standard negotiating tactic. If you let it affect your price you will be back to being an employee before you know it. You were probably already the lowest bid. 

The price drops right along with the scope of work. At this point, talking about quality is a moot point. Most likely he will hire you to do the entire job for the price quoted, he just wants to see if he can get your price even lower.


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

480sparky said:


> How? :confused1:


I'll give ya 2 guesses and the 2nd one is wrong. But here's a hint. Do not post your answer.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

This customer sounds like he was simply following the advice that the media is feeding everyone now. There have been countless articles and stories recently telling HO's to ask contractors for a lower price since things are slow.


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

All the answers are correct. But let me go against the grain again. I will take a 2nd look at the job. If there is still room and little opportunity for error such as cost overruns and so on........I will offer to drop the price a tad. Just a little. It shows you are willing to bend to their request but I am sacrificing very little. If it gets me the job then who cares? I ain't too proud nor am I stubborn or stuck up. 

I will always take this stand: A LITTLE BIT OF SOMETHING IS BETTER THEN EVERYTHING OF NOTHING.


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## mehtwo (Nov 14, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> This customer sounds like he was simply following the advice that the media is feeding everyone now. *There have been countless articles and stories recently telling HO's to ask contractors for a lower price since things are slow.*


Here's a few articles on this:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5219856_negotiate-price-home-repair-contractor.html

http://ownthedollar.com/2009/07/tips-negotiate-building-contractor/

In this next article, they don't mind paying the architect money but the contractor get the peanuts:

http://factoidz.com/how-find-and-negotiate-with-right-contractor/

REMEMBER: Since we are in a recession, the ball is in the HO's court and they can get contractors to fight:boxing: for their business.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Re check your numbers? Is there some wiggle room. The guy took the effort to inform you of why he is hesitant. He has given you a courtesy note which does speak volumes. From my view, if you do a good job, they will spread the word about you...future business. If you pass on the job, they won't say anything. 

We don't know the numbers or scope of the work. Only you know that, and if there is potential to get the job at a agreeable price go get it. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Everybody wants a lower price, it's nothing personal. You should know we know where you need to be to make the job worthwhile. Usually, the bid is made with some wiggle room.


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## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

""Hi Kelly, we have been saving up since Christmas and hoping to get the drainage done especially after the rain and I was wondering if you might be able to do anything on the price? Let me know what you think, we have a few quotes but I think your proposal is the one we like best but the price is a little high for us right now.

 Thanks, Garret"


Garret,

Yes, we've had a lot of rain since we first talked about your project. As you can easily imagine, lots of people are wanting their work done now. Let's take another look at your project before we make any changes in the price or specs to make sure we put your problems behind you. What day is good for us to get together and check things out?

Get back in person when they are both home, give it an inspection and tell them now it's even more important to get this done, and you aren't going to raise the price. (Or delete something and get into their budget). Main thing is to get a face-to-face and you'll get the job.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Hi Garret,

I was pretty lean on that price when I put it together. I'm wondering if the other quotes left something out? Best thing would be to get together and give it a once over again. Do you have time this week?


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> I didn't read anything in his email asking you to lower your price. All he said is they can't afford the full amount of work as quoted.


Mike

I agree with nearly everything that you posted, but I do think that "I was wondering if you might be able to do anything on the price?" is a pretty clear request to lower the original price.


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

Most of what they said. 


I was chatting with my gf and told her about a similar situation. She said how it made her mad when she heard about how clients would ask such things. 

I simply told her its part of the game, it shouldn't be taken personally, everybody wants to pay less.

You need to stay firm and if you've already quoted it lower than usual, than there is no more wiggle room. If they want to change the scope of work then maybe you can arrange for a different quote.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

The email never said that he was low bid, high bid, or somewhere in between, just that they wanted to go with him, and that his price is a little high for them. I think he may already be low bid, hence the response. 

At times, I will bend to help someone that I feel is in need, but in this case, I would likely not bend. If they shared unedited copies of legitimate competitors quotes, and show that I was high bid, and still really wanted me, I might consider it. If the other quotes validate my pricing, I would be lowering the scope in order to lower the price

I know most here feel that the other quotes are irrelevent to my pricing, but helping someone out on occasion if they are being honest with me is a good way to keep happy customers, and potential referrals.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

I am concerned that too many HO's are being given prices which are unsustainably low. And they are buying it.

If you have the ability to toe the line and keep your price, by all means do it. If losing the job puts you in a real bind, then you have to do what you have to do. I would hope your margin allows you a little room for negotiation.

I have budged on occasion. Other times I have held firm.

I would put the ball back in their court with something like "I think this a very fair price for the work, what is the budget you are shooting for?" 

If they offer you a number, see what you can bring to them for that number. The best customers I have dealt with appreciate an honest deal. Plain and simple.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Mike Finley said:


> I didn't read anything in his email asking you to lower your price. All he said is they can't afford the full amount of work as quoted.
> 
> Playing stupid is always the smartest move believe it or not when it comes to this stuff.
> 
> ...


Great advice. If you've ever seen "Pawn Stars" they ALWAYS ask the customer first, "what were you thinking of getting for this" and then they always give them a counter offer of half :laughing:


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

KELCON said:


> New guy here, A little advice is needed! I gave someone a price about 3 months ago, figured he went with someone else. He just emailed me and asked me to lower my price....
> 
> "Hi Kelly, we have been saving up since Christmas and hoping to get the drainage done especially after the rain and I was wondering if you might be able to do anything on the price? Let me know what you think, we have a few quotes but I think your proposal is the one we like best but the price is a little high for us right now.
> 
> ...


How about something like this. "Hi Garret, As stated in my proposal I guarantee my price for 30 days and ask you to check with me about prices after that due to possible price increases on material. Let me check with my suppliers and see if that proposal is still available at that price."

Let them sweat for a bit and then let them know if the original proposal is still valid or if there will be a __% increase in material costs. 

If your proposal was dependent on doing it in good weather you should have language in your proposal stating this. We all know that installing drainage in mud will cost more.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

This video is courtesy of 480sparky from another thread if any of you haven't seen it:


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

Customers who want to negotiate are bad news. They will be the first to screw you out of money. If a client ever asks for a lower price, I will not even consider doing the job. It is a huge red flag.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

mehtwo said:


> In this next article, they don't mind paying the architect money but the contractor get the peanuts:
> 
> http://factoidz.com/how-find-and-negotiate-with-right-contractor/
> 
> REMEMBER: Since we are in a recession, the ball is in the HO's court and they can get contractors to fight:boxing: for their business.


There goes your warranty....:whistling



> It is also recommended that you pay the suppliers and subcontractors your self rather then giving all the money to the contractor and then pay the contractor seperately. That way you will be protected if for some reason your contractor decides not to pay the suppliers and they come to you looking for money that you paid out already.


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## mehtwo (Nov 14, 2010)

Leo G said:


> There goes your warranty....:whistling


Crazy...ain't it?:no:


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

:furious:That just makes me angry. If they want to pay the subcontractors themselves, then they can take the time to weed through them all to find the best ones. Then they can take the time to show them the job and to call them when they need them; and to supervise the project to make sure that what they're doing isn't interfering with any of the other trades. That's why we are called "General Contractors". I wish I didn't read that.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

So I've just finished up a bathroom. The neighbor 3 doors down wanted some work done. Nothing big, but two items a spray ceiling and stone fireplace wall require some skilled people.

He had some hack doing his bsmt. washroom. I gave the price for all the work he wanted, sent a proposal by email. No response, so I figure that's that. Three weeks later he emails me, wants me only to do the hard work-the spray ceiling and the stone.

I politely told him "sorry, as I didn't hear back from you I've booked other work and am not able to do your job". 

He wants his hack to do everything but the two items I know he can't do. 

Too bad for him, let the hack sweat it out. I don't like that, let them see what kind of work they end up with. I just walk away from stuff like that.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Never EVER say it's hard to make money when you do everything legal.

It makes you look like a failure.

Mike


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## KELCON (Feb 19, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your responses, I will stand firm on my price. I would love to change the scope of work to justify lowering the price but that will just be lowering the quality of the job, It's a simple French drain around a house. there is really only one way to do it! the right way. I won't do a half-ass job to cut his cost, that will just cost my reputation later.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Ya just gotta sell like this guy.:laughing:


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

GREAT Scene!!! A good friend of mine, who is a salesman, showed that to me a couple of months ago and I loved it. I still have yet to see the movie but it's on my list. Thanks for the post Mike!!!:thumbup:

Here's the Saturday Night Live Elf version:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/3362/saturday-night-live-glengarry-glen-christmas


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

retraction


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

EMINNYS said:


> *Cash Helps*
> *.*​


_posting your own red flag ?
big brother is watching. 
:laughing:​_bttt

Work is hard to come by right now. It might get worse. If you like the people, work something out.


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## vwovw (Mar 9, 2007)

i actually raised my hourly and have never been more busy.


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## vwovw (Mar 9, 2007)

KELCON said:


> Thank you everyone for your responses, I will stand firm on my price. I would love to change the scope of work to justify lowering the price but that will just be lowering the quality of the job, It's a simple French drain around a house. there is really only one way to do it! the right way. I won't do a half-ass job to cut his cost, that will just cost my reputation later.


:thumbsup: espeacialy this


KELCON said:


> I won't do a half-ass job to cut his cost, that will just cost my reputation later.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

vwovw said:


> i actually raised my hourly and have never been more busy.


My wife used to sell her photography at a weekly artisans show in the summer. In a month, she never sold more than a few photographs, so I told her to raise her prices (I think she doubled the prices), because she wasn't selling them anyways, so what would it hurt. From then on, she pretty much sold out of all of her work. 

Just because someones prices are low doesn't necessarily mean they do inferior work. Public perception is funny, people think the more they pay for something, the more it's worth.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> My wife used to sell her photography at a weekly artisans show in the summer. In a month, she never sold more than a few photographs, so I told her to raise her prices (I think she doubled the prices), because she wasn't selling them anyways, so what would it hurt. From then on, she pretty much sold out of all of her work.
> 
> Just because someones prices are low doesn't necessarily mean they do inferior work. Public perception is funny, people think the more they pay for something, the more it's worth.


That is very true. However, most of the time it is right. The price is usually cheaper because they think they can get it done quicker so they rush, misquote materials and never plan on warrantying anything.

A lot of people always look for the cheapest prices on products and that tends to carry over onto the service industry. A lot of time what people fail to realize is that with a service, you are paying for someones experience and expertise, just like when you go to a doctor, you are going to pay off his education.


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## RCT (Jan 5, 2010)

480sparky said:


> How? :confused1:


:whistling
That depends on how you do things.


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## RCT (Jan 5, 2010)

Good work sticking with your price and maintaining your standards:thumbsup:

My dad used to have a marine construction business (sold it and retired) and he has a saying that has stuck with me..."I'd rather explain the price than apologize for the quality." 

I firmly believe that if a guy/company builds a solid reputation for doing great work, they're golden.


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

Simple...Get back with the HO to reveiw previous discussions. Then, let them know that with the slight (perceived) uptick in the economy, your costs have actually risen since you quoted their work but let them know that you will be willing to absorb the increase by doing the job for what you quoted them previously. They'll either accept or reject.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Ya just gotta sell like this guy.:laughing:


Loved it :thumbsup: What movie is that from?

That's how I approach the work also. Hacks always have some reason they can't do a great job, always someone else's fault.

I don't want to hear it, just do it right or step aside and let someone who can, do it.

Convey that to the customer. I've got one customer who watches Holmes on Holmes every day. Told her " I've forgotten more than he knows ".

Sell yourself, and back it up with quality work. :thumbsup:


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## mehtwo (Nov 14, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Ya just gotta sell like this guy.:laughing:


Talk about some reverse psychology!
I've also seen this tactic used for selling cars. First they strip you of your pride, then they tell you that you can only gain it back driving *their* fine automobiles.:w00t:

Human psychology is a interesting animal!:blink:


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> That is very true. However, most of the time it is right. The price is usually cheaper because they think they can get it done quicker so they rush, misquote materials and never plan on warrantying anything.
> 
> A lot of people always look for the cheapest prices on products and that tends to carry over onto the service industry. A lot of time what people fail to realize is that with a service, you are paying for someones experience and expertise, just like when you go to a doctor, you are going to pay off his education.


Ya man, you're totally right. A buddy of mine who's an electrician when he gets asked by his customers why they're getting a bill for one hours worth of work when he was only there for 15 minutes. He would tell them, "It took me 5 years to learn how to do what I just did in 15 minutes" :thumbsup:


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Well, maybe I am coming into this thing a little late, but..................

I will have to assume that you can get to these folks for a face to face without much trouble. 

Here's the goal: sell the job without making any more trips or emails

Here's the other part of the goal: don't lower your price for the work you quoted. 

I see this as an opportunity to close the sale once and for all. Decide on the scope of work, the price and the start date. 

Personally, I would call them on the phone, not an email, cus it is harder to hang up on the phone. I would acknowledge the email, and say something to the effect of getting together to "move forward" on this project. Don't mention price or cost, or cutting or removing things from the project at this stage. 

If they are serious, they will want to get together face to face on this, not just do stuff over the phone or by email. If they don't want to get together, then they are just shopping for a better deal. It is a lot harder to say no and get rid of someone who is sitting down, face to face with you, rather than a phone call or an email. 

The thing to remember is, that if people REALLY want something, they will find a way to get it. The trick is to qualify how much they really want this. Once you go over, step by step, what you are going to do for them, the materials involved, the quality of the work and the warranty, you should be able to weed out what their objections are. 

I love objections. Because it carries on the conversation and allows me to come back with solutions ---- once you have answered the objections, and, they acknowledge it (one by one), then the only possible solution is to do the job at the price. People do hold out though and you need to find out why ?? I always liked the statement: Do you see any reason why we can't move forward with this project (job or whatever). This is to flush out any more objections ---- answer them and then move on to the close. 

Anyway, this is my opinion. A sales training course takes a lot longer than a post on this forum. Contractors want to be contractors, not sales people, not janitors, not bookkeepers, not marketing folks. But when you run your own business, you usually have to wear all those hats.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

katoman said:


> Loved it :thumbsup: What movie is that from?
> 
> That's how I approach the work also. Hacks always have some reason they can't do a great job, always someone else's fault.
> 
> ...


Kato

Glengarry Glen Ross


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

The overwhelming majority say, hold your price. We just don't see eye to eye on this. The prospect likes this guy. They took time to send a return e-mail which speaks volumes. To me, it just seems unwise to be locked in on your price. Everything is negotiable.


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

flashheatingand said:


> The overwhelming majority say, hold your price. We just don't see eye to eye on this. The prospect likes this guy. They took time to send a return e-mail which speaks volumes. To me, it just seems unwise to be locked in on your price. Everything is negotiable.


Yea, but the op already said he gave him a low bid to start with and didn't see how he could do it cheaper. What is he supposed to work for nothing?


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> That is very true. However, most of the time it is right. The price is usually cheaper because they think they can get it done quicker so they rush, misquote materials and never plan on warrantying anything.
> 
> A lot of people always look for the cheapest prices on products and that tends to carry over onto the service industry. A lot of time what people fail to realize is that with a service, you are paying for someones experience and expertise, just like when you go to a doctor, you are going to pay off his education.


Just gotta say the term you get what you pay for is balderdash. Sometimes, the saying is true, but frequently it isn't. Let's just use auto mechanic for example. The dealership charges a lot of money, are all the mechanics at the dealership better than Joe Shadetree? Maybe, maybe not. But, there is no guarantee that by paying more money, we will get what we paid for. 

If somebody were to use that line on me, I would be turned off. Almost all of us are expendable.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree that the term isn't always true, but I disagree that it is more frequently not true. I believe it's true in more cases than not; otherwise most of the best contractors & subcontractors would be the cheapest ones, and we all know that ain't true.


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## room2roof (Feb 1, 2011)

480sparky said:


> You just lost that sale.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is Good Sparky and exactly how I position myself regarding price. You cannot get defensive about price ,especially in this economy because alot of people need a project done but know times are a bit tight and have to really watch their budget.

We are the experts and have to show our potential clients the value in using a Quality contractor vs chewing you down to zero profits. A good analogy of their field on price usually does it and they choose us when I make my point.

I always ask customers when they tell me they "have a cheaper price can I beat it" I ask them if doing the job twice would cost more than doing it right the first time. I walk away from alot of potential customers when I feel that the cheapest price is their only object and have no respect for my profession. I always give a fair price to my customers and provide the highest quality, let them guys working for bar money do the cheapskates job so he can learn a lesson.


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Ya just gotta sell like this guy.:laughing:



Glengarry Glenn Ross

its based of a stage play, which may or may not be based off a book. That part was not originally in the script and was written specifically for alec baldwin.

good movie.


fyi the character of gill is based of the jack lemon character from that same movie.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

flashheatingand said:


> The overwhelming majority say, hold your price. We just don't see eye to eye on this. The prospect likes this guy. They took time to send a return e-mail which speaks volumes. To me, it just seems unwise to be locked in on your price. Everything is negotiable.


Maybe, but that still doesn't mean you should give up more than you have to. 

Even if you're willing to drop your prices it's probably a bit smarter to only drop them exactly as much as you have to. That's what we're saying in a nut shell. Get information out of the customer before you vomit a discount bigger then need be.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

good advise, I will have to put that in my mental roladex.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

S.R.E. said:


> Yea, but the op already said he gave him a low bid to start with and didn't see how he could do it cheaper. What is he supposed to work for nothing?


I think it comes down to perception of the post.
A: I give them a bid at a favorable rate, and the guy is still trying to beat me up.
or 
B: I get a bid from several guys, I like this guy Joe, but his price is higher than a few other bids.

I certainly don't want anybody no matter what type of work they do, to work for free, or even worse, pay to work. I just thought a lot of people were saying, "don't budge", and, well, you know the rest.


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## MrMooseman (Feb 17, 2011)

I have an acquaintance (sort of family) that had a situation very close to this. He was approached by the HO and asked if he could "do anything on the price". He ended up dropping the price quite a bit, not making anything for O&P, and of course the HO was thrilled. I guess the HO was so thrilled that they told everyone in the development what he had done and at the price he had done it. I think he is still trying to explain why he can't perform the work for that price to others.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

This is an interesting topic.--- I have particiapated on another forum for over 10 years---and this topic comes up periodically. Like most of you--- I have always had a position where I am not going to cut my price,not going to negotiate, not going to haggle etc.

Another participant on the other forum tried to change my approach for years.

Last spring I tried a different approach on one customer. My roofing business had hung doorhangers in a targeted neighborhood. Some time later a prospective customer called. I met with the customer, discussed his roofing project---and many other things as well. We seemed like a good fit--- the prospect learned about me, the size of crew I work with, the fact that we are a family business, he learned that my wife is a teacher in a private religous school ( low paid) etc.----------------- I learned that the customer had been retired for 12 years, that he had owned the house for almost 40 years,--- I learned that HE had had a long career in education---first as a teacher and later for almost 20 years as an administrator in a religous school---- i left him with a long,detailed proposal for his project and copies of 4 magazine articles i have had published directly relevant to his project.

A week or so later he contacted me---and told me that he had several other proposals---and that mine was the highest. He told me that he had budgeted a certain amount for the project--- but that even the lowest proposal he had was for more than the amount he had budgeted----and that the lowest proposal was not nearly as detailed and thorough as mine and that he really didn't feel good about heading in that direction. He also told me the amount the other proposals were written for.

He then asked me if there was anything I could do about the price.

( at this point I have ALWAYS refused to dicker--- but I tried something else with this guy---because I believed him and I thought he genuinely wanted me to do the work)
I asked him if he had something specific in mind. He told me if I could do the project for "X" amount he would like me to do the project.--- "X" amount was exactly $500 less than what I had originally proposed for a project that would keep us busy for about 4-1/2 days. 
I told him that I did not have his proposal with me at that time--- but I would look into it and call him back later in the day.

when I called him back I told him that I could do the project for "Y" amount--- but ONLY if we could do it during a specific week about 3 weeks in the future. "Y" amount was about $360 less than my original proposal---- and that became the amount we went on to do the project for.

currently my position is that basically I will not lower my price or bargain----- but from time to time I will do so--- because I ALWAYS have room in my price to do so----and to give up $360 in exchange for 4-1/2 days work for my crew---- is a deal I Am willing to make---all day long if I can--- if the end result is booking work at rates STILL above what I need.

to be fair--- my rates are based on providing me with enough income to allow me to take 4 months off from work every year--- so I DO have room to dicker a bit. If I was pricing everything out of need and trying to scramble up enough work to work 50 weeks a year---- maybe I couldn't dicker--- I really don't know.

My apologies for the lengthy post,
and best wishes to all,
stephen


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## AmeliaP (Apr 22, 2007)

I take into consideration want vs. need when a HO wants to haggle.

A single mother with 2 kids and a leaky foundation causing mold has more of a chance of a tighter price than a couple that wants to haggle over their stamped and stained hot tub pad for their vacation home.

If it is a luxury/want item - I don't budge unless the scope changes.


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

The last couple of local estimates I’ve been on the HO told me they called 2 other local painters for bids. OK I say so what exactly are you looking for then? Well we want you to do the job but the other 2 contractors will work for $200 dollars a day, can you lower your rate. Before I can answer they tell me, we are all legitimate contractors but the economy is rough and we all need to lower our price after all they can do the painting themselves but would rather not. 

First off the other 2 contractors are both illegal and really have no clue how to estimate and let the HO buy all a material for the job and just supply labor.
As a professional I give a detailed estimate and I supply both labor and material which I markup as I am entitled to it. It’s a tough call if you want to lower your price for work believe we are very slow here but I cannot make any money at that rate so my answer was no without an explanation I just parted in a friendly way and said good luck. To myself I said why didn’t I qualify these leads like I usally do could have saved time and money.

It's a rat race out there now and all the HO's want blood like its 1987, gonna be a test for the strong this business year at least in my work area...:thumbsup:
.


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

AmeliaP said:


> I take into consideration want vs. need when a HO wants to haggle.
> 
> A single mother with 2 kids and a leaky foundation causing mold has more of a chance of a tighter price than a couple that wants to haggle over their stamped and stained hot tub pad for their vacation home.
> 
> If it is a luxury/want item - I don't budge unless the scope changes.


thats a good way of looking at it. If its need lets talk shop. want, you gotta pay


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## AmeliaP (Apr 22, 2007)

> I take into consideration want vs. need when a HO wants to haggle.
> 
> A single mother with 2 kids and a leaky foundation causing mold has more of a chance of a tighter price than a couple that wants to haggle over their stamped and stained hot tub pad for their vacation home.
> 
> If it is a luxury/want item - I don't budge unless the scope changes.


 
Now - of course - I say this and go look at 2 jobs today which are both _needs_ but not to negotiable. 

One was a fireplace that started a fire in the wall. It's a total rip down. Can't do to much there but bring the 1960's work up to 2011 codes.

The other one is a foundation (crawl space) which is basically a total loss. I wish I'd taken pics to post here. It's got to be cribbed, ripped out and re-done. It is what it is but at least he just bought the house and got it for a song so....it balances I guess.

So....my theory on price haggling works often.... but is certainly not an absolute. :blink:


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## room2roof (Feb 1, 2011)

THINKPAINTING said:


> The last couple of local estimates I’ve been on the HO told me they called 2 other local painters for bids. OK I say so what exactly are you looking for then? Well we want you to do the job but the other 2 contractors will work for $200 dollars a day, can you lower your rate. Before I can answer they tell me, we are all legitimate contractors but the economy is rough and we all need to lower our price after all they can do the painting themselves but would rather not.
> 
> First off the other 2 contractors are both illegal and really have no clue how to estimate and let the HO buy all a material for the job and just supply labor.
> As a professional I give a detailed estimate and I supply both labor and material which I markup as I am entitled to it. It’s a tough call if you want to lower your price for work believe we are very slow here but I cannot make any money at that rate so my answer was no without an explanation I just parted in a friendly way and said good luck. To myself I said why didn’t I qualify these leads like I usally do could have saved time and money.
> ...


Hey We may not Want to abbreviate Homeowner as HO... The Hip Hop forum on this Server is getting mighty jealous...lmao!!


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

It's my experience that when emails are sent, the guy is either getting pressure from his wife to get a discount, or he feels that he has to ask to satisfy his curiosity, otherwise he would call you up and pound out a deal with you. He has the upper hand in a phone call that catches you off guard. With an email, you have time to plan a strategy. I'd bet, if you made a sound case for why your price is where it is, he would hire you anyway, It looks like he wants to hire you. This guy is not confrontational.

As for this job not being in his budget, obviously he is asking for a discount, without really asking. Hold your ground, you'll get the job. Just my opinion.


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## sancho (Apr 3, 2010)

skcolo said:


> It's my experience that when emails are sent, the guy is either getting pressure from his wife to get a discount, or he feels that he has to ask to satisfy his curiosity, otherwise he would call you up and pound out a deal with you. He has the upper hand in a phone call that catches you off guard. With an email, you have time to plan a strategy. I'd bet, if you made a sound case for why your price is where it is, he would hire you anyway, It looks like he wants to hire you. This guy is not confrontational.
> 
> As for this job not being in his budget, obviously he is asking for a discount, without really asking. Hold your ground, you'll get the job. Just my opinion.


Dear Garrett,

Yes there are alternate means to solve your drainage issue. I can come with my bob cat a dig a ditch from your house to the street. I can also dig a 4 ft moat around your 500K home to. That should solve your drainage isse and you will have money left over for other things like that vacation you are really saving for

or

Dear Garrett,

I have considered your request for me to relook at the bid I made on your surgery. I can reduce the quality of the pain medicine, eliminate the serilization of the tools I will use on your back surgery and If we perform the surgery at your house it will further reduce your cost.
Though with this reduction I can not guaranty that your recovery will be faster and smoother and the chance of infection will be increased.
Please let me know what your decision is so I can go to the temp agency and find me a nurse who will be able to assist me in the surgury because my normal assistant will not be available for the price you wish to pay.


Dear Garrett,

I will be to reduce the cost of representing you by 10%. I will have to cut my leagal assistant and paralegal and hire a high school kid with typing skills and a library card to proof read and research whether the surgury you recieved by Dr. Sancho cause you to be paralyzed. I will also not be able to hire my normal specialist to assist me in forming your case. Instead I will be using students from the St Johns medical school located in Southern Somalia to assist me in the technical portion of your case.

Mr Sancho Attorney at Law


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