# Xactimate Pricing



## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

I have a problem and I need your help.

I am working on an estimate for an insurance repair job and this is new to me. The homeowner keeps asking me for my estimate and I told him I want to wait and see the scope of loss report first.

I met with the adjuster yesterday and he included everything that I wanted included but I don’t know how much they will pay out for it.

This is not a hail damage job. A tree fell over and damaged the roof, gutters, gutter guards and the chimney.

The section of roof to be replaced is about 6 squares, 2 layers tear off on a 4:12 pitch.

There is about 90 ft of gutter and gutter guard to replace.

The chimney is about 4 ft wide and 5 ft tall, the agreed to repair one side of it and the top, plus new flashing.

Some bricks fell off the chimney and broke the decking, they included 1 square of decking.

I have a written agreement with the owner that says they are not obligated unless the insurance company approves the repairs. I left the price blank because I wanted to wait and see how much they were going to pay out.

The homeowner is trying to get some money out of it because they only wanted to pay for half of the tree removal.

Anyway, I was wondering if you could tell me how much they would pay out based on Xactimate prices. I would appreciate if you could help.

Thanks


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

MEL said:


> The homeowner is trying to get some money out of it because they only wanted to pay for half of the tree removal.


I would make sure they know this is quite illegal. The policyholder is not allowed to make a profit off a claim. If they want to act as their own GC on a job they are not allowed to collect any O/P.

But... It sounds to me like you are wanting to see how much the insurance company is willing to pay before doing your estimate and coming in under what they will allow. Do your estimate just like it was any other job. If you want to work with XM8 prices then get the program and use it.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree with mbryan here. I've bid on 3 insurance jobs this year. Won 2 of them. Doing the 2 I won, I learned additional details about the jobs. First was storm damaged roof replacement, my price was actually $2000 lower than the adjusted. Insurer requested permit and confirmation of completion. Second was also storm replacement, I learned later the HO had to pony up about 25% over the quoted to replace roof and balked at new gutters that they really needed for an extra few hundred. Not sure about confirmation but their insurer also requested permit. 

Point being I would have as little to do with any scheme the HO is working on, especially any part including you(once I had a HO ask for an estimate on a job they informed me they weren't doing). I declined. Insurance fraud is a legitimate big deal even though so many get away with it. I also learned that both insurers in my case refused any additional payouts until the roofs were replaced. So, I'm interested to find out if your HO is gonna get themselves into some chit, don't let them get you next to them. 

Price the job just like always and maintain plausible deniability.


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## Red Adobe (Jul 26, 2008)

Bid it as if it wasnt an ins yob, if its too much move on down the road


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

I pay a company $50 to write a XM Estimate. The $50 pays for itself and without XM training and or experience (lack of XM writing experience= leaving money on the table).

I will gladly share his contact information just PM me. 


Whether it is shady Adjusters or shady Insurance Company tactics you will loose money because they are paid and profit from screwing guys that don't know their game. 

Not filling in a value for the signed contract voids the contract and your time is a wasted. Whether its your numbers or XM numbers you need numbers. Being paid 10% over Adjusters XM Estimate is common, not as common as being paid much less than 10% of the true costs to completed the project.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

I have never had a problem with the homeowner giving me a copy of the scope of work with what the insurance pays out on it. I can ussually make it happen without anything out of pocket for the HO. If they won't show you that, then they are likely trying to pocket a portion of that insurance money.


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

ryanshull said:


> II can ussually make it happen without anything out of pocket for the HO.


Another thing that I'd be careful about. Know it's illegal in Colorado...


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

mbryan said:


> Another thing that I'd be careful about. Know it's illegal in Colorado...


You just have to be careful how you word it.............I think. Technically, I pay the deductable. I honestly don't know where that stands legally.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> You just have to be careful how you word it.............I think. Technically, I pay the deductable. I honestly don't know where that stands legally.


Yikes.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Yikes.


Lol, am I crazy? This is fairly common practice by many established roofing contractors around here.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> Lol, am I crazy? *This is fairly common practice by many established roofing contractors around here*.


Doesn't make it legal....:whistling


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

ryanshull said:


> Lol, am I crazy? This is fairly common practice by many established roofing contractors around here.


I asked the agent that I get my homeowners insurance from if it's OK for a contractor to pay the deductible and he said that's between the contractor and the homeowner.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

MEL said:


> I asked the agent that I get my homeowners insurance from if it's OK for a contractor to pay the deductible and he said that's between the contractor and the homeowner.


The other way you can put it is I send the bill out for say $7,000 (the total adjustment) on the roof and I only get paid $6,500 (the total adjustment less the deductable) and I just decide not to collect on the remainder.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> The other way you can put it is I send the bill out for say $7,000 (the total adjustment) on the roof and I only get paid $6,500 (the total adjustment less the deductable) and I just decide not to collect on the remainder.


So the homeowner profited from the claim on you send out a fake invoice. Hmm, might want to do some more research before you get investigated for insurance fraud.


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## TLP (Jun 17, 2013)

I'll look at xactimate later for you when I get home right now I got to run to a job.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> So the homeowner profited from the claim on you send out a fake invoice. Hmm, might want to do some more research before you get investigated for insurance fraud.


No they don't profit, they just don't have to pay the deductable. Like someone said already, their insurance guy stated that is between the ho and the contractor. They don't care. In other words, I don't collect more than what the insurance pays out. 

No fraud. Fraud would be if they made a claim, and I don't fix it, or only fixed part of it and still get paid, or if they intentionally damage it, or nothing is wrong and they make a claim. 

You have a bad habbit of twisting what I write, Bamm. Calling me a criminal is very offensive.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> So the homeowner profited from the claim on you send out a fake invoice. Hmm, might want to do some more research before you get investigated for insurance fraud.


And there is nothing fake about my invoice........


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

ryanshull said:


> No they don't profit, they just don't have to pay the deductable. Like someone said already, their insurance guy stated that is between the ho and the contractor. They don't care. In other words, I don't collect more than what the insurance pays out.
> 
> No fraud. Fraud would be if they made a claim, and I don't fix it, or only fixed part of it and still get paid, or if they intentionally damage it, or nothing is wrong and they make a claim.
> 
> You have a bad habbit of twisting what I write, Bamm. Calling me a criminal is very offensive.


The deductible is the amount of the claim that the insured is REQUIRED to pay. If they do work on the claim they can work off the deductible, that is quite common. If it is a covered loss then the insurance company picks up the rest of the expense to restore to like kind and quality. The deductible that is being written off is factored into the price somehow. You are not losing $1,000 per job just for the benefit of doing the work. That is coming from somewhere be it doing a lower grade shingle than they are paying for, not doing ice and water shield everywhere they are specing it of charging more for the shingles than what they are worth or you normally do. 

Any type of discount goes back to the insurance company.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> And there is nothing fake about my invoice........


If a job is $4500 do you invoice $5000 to the insurance company and still only take $500?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> The other way you can put it is I send the bill out for say $7,000 (the total adjustment) on the roof and I only get paid $6,500 (the total adjustment less the deductable) and I just decide not to collect on the remainder.


Can I make the "whistling" face from my phone?


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

MEL said:


> you are right i did not have the right contract, next time I will.
> 
> I found a source for the Xactimate pricing.
> 
> I would like to now more about getting the tree paid for. They said they would only pay for half because only half of the tree was hanging over the house.


Lol. Seriously if they said that I'd laugh at them, out loud. The tree fell on the house it's full pay insurance the fact it was hanging over the house means nothing- unles, unless they said cut the tree or we are dropping you. That is a adjuster ploy, an outrageous remark to say the least.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

ryanshull said:


> Wasn't there some decking too? 6 squares of shingles should fit in the bed of your truck if you don't have a trailer.


yes, 1 or 2 sheets, it's 2 layers = 12 square


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

MEL said:


> yes, 1 or 2 sheets, it's 2 layers = 12 square


This Mel is an easy one. Containers are estimated based on previous jobs per XM. So get on then horn, get a container, get the price and keep the invoice and share it with your Adjuster, with a phone call followed by email. Adjust the price in the final invoice as a supplement. Document phone call, person that you spoke with as well as try to get it in writing somehow- email works.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

MEL said:


> yes, 1 or 2 sheets, it's 2 layers = 12 square


Have you seen the decking? Is it decking or boards? Will the like shingle you are installing now requiring plywood sheathing to comply with manufacture warranty?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Roofcheck said:


> This Mel is an easy one. Containers are estimated based on previous jobs per XM. So get on then horn, get a container, get the price and keep the invoice and share it with your Adjuster, with a phone call followed by email. Adjust the price in the final invoice as a supplement. Document phone call, person that you spoke with as well as try to get it in writing somehow- email works.


Oh you mean you get dumpsters and invoice them? I always just thought we did it for what they say and figured it out, even if it includes throwing 12 square of debris in my truck.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Oh you mean you get dumpsters and invoice them? I always just thought we did it for what they say and figured it out, even if it includes throwing 12 square of debris in my truck.


Just imagine not eating that $500 deductible- that would save yours truck needless abuse.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Roofcheck said:


> Just imagine not eating that $500 deductible- that would save yours truck needless abuse.


I didn't say THIS was a good job for eating the deductable. If I was afraid of throwing a tarp down in my truck and loading it with shingles, I would he in another profession. I have trailers for that sort of thing, but if I didn't.........300 bucks seems a little steep for such a small load. I would personally feel guilty for not being more resourceful.

For $300, I cud buy a trailer to haul that much. These are the types of things that make my cost of doing business less.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Roofcheck said:


> This Mel is an easy one. Containers are estimated based on previous jobs per XM. So get on then horn, get a container, get the price and keep the invoice and share it with your Adjuster, with a phone call followed by email. Adjust the price in the final invoice as a supplement. Document phone call, person that you spoke with as well as try to get it in writing somehow- email works.


...............and save $300 worth of office work in order to collect. Ain't nobody got time for that.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> ...............and save $300 worth of office work in order to collect. Ain't nobody got time for that.


............... And spend time running to the dump a few times lent burn up $300 gas and time?


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Roofcheck said:


> ............... And spend time running to the dump a few times lent burn up $300 gas and time?


A few times for 12 square? This is getting nuts. You win. Let's quit hijackinging this thread.

For all we know, the adjuster HAS accounted for the dumpster cost. The HO has yet to reveal this info to the OP. That was the main point I was trying to get at earlier. The whole eating the deductable on sizable Jobs was supposed to be a sidenote, not a suggestion for this job.

Get the scope of work with the adjusters pricing on it, and you will have a better idea of what they will pay. Then make a decision as to whether you even want to mess with it. You might take one look at it and want to run.....who knows?


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

> If you want to work with XM8 prices then get the program and use it.


Lol

This was the funniest thing I have read in a long time. 

and I love a good fight so I'm jumping in...

If the claim paid 15000$ and you invoice the Ins co for 10 k that's what the customer going to get. They aren't going to get to keep the money. Tell the homeowner you have to invoice the carrier in order to get the depreciation check. ..if they don't understand that or there isn't a second check.. Invoice the customer however much you want to get paid and dont worry about how much they are getting. Dont worry about covering deductibles and don't worry about them committing fraud. You are either doing the job according to the scope and getting paid according to the scope or its a cash pay deal. If its cash pay, write a very specific contract and scope of work and adhere to a 50/40/10% payout agreement or your going to get screwed. 



You just have to be careful how you word it.............I think. Technically, I pay the deductable. I honestly don't know where that stands legally.[/QUOTE]


The law states that unless you offer the same to all customers and non customers, its fraud. That means if you are paying 2000$(covering a deductible) to a customer to keep your sign in their yard for a month...then you have to be willing to pay that to any random person that you are not doing biz with as well. If that is the case I'll pm you my address and I'll litter every house in my neighborhood with your signs. 

To the person who said they write their own scopes.. THANK YOU for seeing outside the box. THE JOB IS GONNA COST WHAT IT COST and the ins company has to pay for it. 9/10 times I bill a supplemental charge. Don't let their scope confine you! They don't account for hidden damage. Work that claim right and make them pay for it. I've gotten claims from 10 grand up to 30 grand and every cent was rightfully owed. I don't bill for frivolous stuff.


Lastly I'd like to point out a much bigger issue. You said The ins is only paying for part of the roof? And its a 2 layer tear off?? Does anyone else see a problem there? Lol

Aw heck.... They prob won't notice that giant dent in their roof where there's only one layer of shingles. It will blend. You prob won't even notice that the shingles are different color and style either. There are things called street side appearance laws. If you can notice the difference from one visible slope to the next the ins co has to replace the whole thing.

They wouldn't happen to have comp over wood on that roof would they?? Sounds like the adjuster didn't have much confidence in you. And he wrote a scope that proves it.. He is probably still laughing about paying for half a tree.... that is so f'in funny. I believe the best way to learn is by making mistakes so I won't say you need to give that claim to a more seasoned contractor... But at least get one in your hip pocket to help you work this one.


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## Rampart Roofing (May 31, 2013)

It's this simple, and variations of this is why the home rehab industry has suffered:
1. Property damage occurs
2. Contractor(s) is called, gives bid(s) for repairs
3. Insurance is called, adjustment is given for repairs
4. Agreement on price is negotiated, finalized
5. Agreement is made between winning contractor and property owner
6. Initial payment made (includes DEDUCTIBLE), work is completed, invoice sent to insurance for work completed with pictures
7. Final payment sent from insurance
8. DONE
Variations of this... deductible monies owed per insurance contract being "negotiable"... 
1. There are circumstances where things can be done discount wise (i.e.: veterans, seniors, disability, immediate family, death, etc)
2. Any other cheating in this is what has killed this industry's pricing and NOI!
Imagine if random people could just walk in to a doctor's office, and start telling people they could fix the patient for half the price.... when in reality, they don't have a clue what they are doing?? Oh, wait... bad example...


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

1. No contractor should ever give estimates on insurance work. 2. "Burying" deductibles is frowned upon because the insured agreed to at least pay that portion of the claim. Some states have made the practice illegal which is a good thing since it levels the playing field for all. 3. Xactimate is NOT the industry standard and their pricing is typically low-ball. Therefore, no reason to use it and no reason to pay their high annual "license" fee. 4. When properly presented to a HO with insurance covered damage, they typically will have no problem signing a "blank contract" that appoints a particular contractor to assist the HO with their claim. 5. The HO who does sign that "blank contract" will likely, having been presented with the fact by a well versed contractor, not attempt to pocket the ins proceeds.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

Roofcheck said:


> This Mel is an easy one. Containers are estimated based on previous jobs per XM. So get on then horn, get a container, get the price and keep the invoice and share it with your Adjuster, with a phone call followed by email. Adjust the price in the final invoice as a supplement. Document phone call, person that you spoke with as well as try to get it in writing somehow- email works.


I asked the adjuster about disposal and he said they would not pay for it, he said it was included in the price per sq.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

madrina said:


> Lastly I'd like to point out a much bigger issue. You said The ins is only paying for part of the roof? And its a 2 layer tear off?? Does anyone else see a problem there? Lol
> 
> Aw heck.... They prob won't notice that giant dent in their roof where there's only one layer of shingles. It will blend. You prob won't even notice that the shingles are different color and style either. There are things called street side appearance laws. If you can notice the difference from one visible slope to the next the ins co has to replace the whole thing.


It's the entire back side of the house, it has a hip roof.


> They wouldn't happen to have comp over wood on that roof would they?? Sounds like the adjuster didn't have much confidence in you. And he wrote a scope that proves it.. He is probably still laughing about paying for half a tree.... that is so f'in funny. I believe the best way to learn is by making mistakes so I won't say you need to give that claim to a more seasoned contractor... But at least get one in your hip pocket to help you work this one.


 I don't have anything to do with the tree removal, the owner had already paid to have it removed before I arrived.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

In this case, tell the homeowner they aren't paying for the removal of the shingles and he will need to hire someone else to remove them or pay more out of pocket.

My point in this is to get the homeowner on your side and have them fight the insurance company with you. They are your best ally.


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## twill59 (Aug 14, 2009)

ryanshull said:


> I just do a couple roofs a year, but I've never had the insurance adjuster underestimate the cost, maybe I'm just lucky. If you ask me, roofing pays just fine if your crew is deccent.
> 
> What drives the cost down are these big GCs who are nothing more than a guy in a pickup truck with next to zero overhead that are able to acquire materials at a lower cost due to volume -chasing storms all over the country. Then they sub out to barely legal crews at $55 a square for tearoff AND replacement. Then they have no call backs because they have disappeared after the storm work starts to fade.
> 
> ...


I had one cold call me last week. Phishing.
He said " I have $150,000 worth of roof labor sold in Griffith, IN @ $65 per sq" WOW!
Then he said " t-off and re-install vinyl siding @ $65 sq"
I called back, left message and said "No thanks. You guys need to stop doing the ins. cos. bidding for them. These numbers don't work."

Doubt if it will change the world, but as soon as we all stop fighting for chump change, 1990's prices, sub contractor pricing and scraps, insurance prices may rise to a respectable level.


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

Doubt if it will change the world said:


> Guess what the market is not paying 1990's prices right now they are paying 2013 prices. In most cases is less for us, because our overhead is that much higher. I wish I could get 1990's prices in the Detroit market today.


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## annv (Mar 5, 2014)

If the homeowner is acting as the General Contractor the O&P is allowed to the homeowner. Look up the clause Appraisal in the insureds policy and this will allow for more money to be paid on the claim if the damage is truly there! Message me for more information on how to get insurance carriers to pay out more. I also do Xactimate estimates if anyone needs an estimate written please message me! Thanks!


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## Gennie ICS (Aug 28, 2015)

Over measured?? Where do you live??


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## Gennie ICS (Aug 28, 2015)

The key to always getting O&P is photos/documentation on collateral damage.


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## steve4223 (Jul 10, 2019)

I saw your post so I signed up to message you, unfortunately my account is new so was unable to message directly? At any rate, I'm a GC in MN that does mostly remodeling with the occasional roof. I pulled an Eagleview through my supplier (ABC) but don't have access to Xactimate, but would like to get the Eagleview report to someone who has Xactimate so I can get a bid back to the insured. I've come across a few options in my searches, but would prefer to work with someone that you've worked with.



Thanks,
Steve


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## Bull Trout (Dec 6, 2016)

steve4223 said:


> I saw your post so I signed up to message you, unfortunately my account is new so was unable to message directly? At any rate, I'm a GC in MN that does mostly remodeling with the occasional roof. I pulled an Eagleview through my supplier (ABC) but don't have access to Xactimate, but would like to get the Eagleview report to someone who has Xactimate so I can get a bid back to the insured. I've come across a few options in my searches, but would prefer to work with someone that you've worked with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You want to use software that I paid for to bid a job you will profit from?

That’s my kinda deal, send the info over


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## steve4223 (Jul 10, 2019)

Bull Trout said:


> steve4223 said:
> 
> 
> > I saw your post so I signed up to message you, unfortunately my account is new so was unable to message directly? At any rate, I'm a GC in MN that does mostly remodeling with the occasional roof. I pulled an Eagleview through my supplier (ABC) but don't have access to Xactimate, but would like to get the Eagleview report to
> ...



Sorry the post was confusing, I’m looking for someone who charges to do xactimate estimates. I’ve found folks online that do it for $50, I’m looking to pay, just want a recommendation on the provider.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Omg there is not even enough room for me to respond to this post... FIRST OF ALL, if it's a 2 layer tear off then the whole roof needs to come off. Period. How can u ever match that? Additionally 2 layers voids the shingle warranty. 

Omg if this post wasn't so old id beg you to send me the picture essay and address so I could write it for you. I'll turn that 20k job into a 50 k job in 30 min. 

Gah you're stressing me out already. If you can't write your own estimate for insurance work then hire someone to do it for you because you are doing a huge disservice to your clients by not knowing how to correctly estimate the scope of work. Because the adjuster SURELY doesn't know how to do it and that has been proven already by him estimating 6 squares! No engineer? A tree fell on their house. Did they pay for the tree removal at least? Prob not. I didn't read past the first post btw because it gave me so much anxiety. 

As an aside, if you can't estimate the damages on your own, are you sure you are capable to do the repair correctly? Not trying to be rude but if you agreed to only replace 6 squares and you thought that was a correct repair.... I have some doubts. 

I know Xactimate is expensive, but knowing how to write an insurance estimate correctly will increase your income triple fold if not more.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Ps I'll do your Xactimate estimates. But I need a specific set of photos. What you get for 50$ is a bare minimum usually not accurate standard estimate from someone who never even looked at the job. It's gonna be bare bones and probably not accurate on any accessories. 

If you want an estimate that will pay for itself, pm me.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

ryanshull said:


> BamBamm5144 said:
> 
> 
> > So the homeowner profited from the claim on you send out a fake invoice. Hmm, might want to do some more research before you get investigated for insurance fraud.
> ...


Lol.. yes that is allowing them to profit and yes it is illegal to pay their deductible. You're not paying anything you're just not making them pay it. I wouldn't call you a criminal but that is insurance fraud. 

How many ways can you word "i cover deductibles"


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