# Do you do all the work yourself or sub it out?



## cueball707 (Jan 18, 2007)

I'm just wondering how most of you make your money. Do you do all the work for your remodels? (plumbing, paint, drywall, etc) Or do you just do certain portions of the project and sub the rest out? Or do you sub it all out?

Me personally , I do about 75 percent of the work and sub out about 25 percent. Lately, I have been subbing out all of the specialty work because we have been fairly busy (knock on wood!) 

I know of a few guys who sub everything out and they just manage the project. The companies seem fairly successful. Do any of you have experience doing business like this? Is it a realistic approach?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Your question is relatively meaningless unless you define the typical scale of your projects. Do you do whole-house remodels, additions, or single-room workovers? Are you a one man band who subs out only the portions of the work you aren't comfortable with, or do you have a crew with several semi-specialists?

Generally, the larger the project, the more workable it is to sub out the individual skillset tasks.


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## cueball707 (Jan 18, 2007)

We are actually a two man show and between the two of us we can do just about everything. 

We use subs to do projects that they can do faster and more efficiently than we can do them. For example if we are asked to paint the whole house as part of the project we sub the painting out because they can get it done in 1-2 days and it would take us all week to do it since we are not painters. Another example is that we will do a few sheets of drywall, but if its a whole Kitchen and Living Room we use a sub.

The average projects that I'm talking about are between $10K to $30K. I hope that makes it a little more clear what I'm asking.


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

All I can offer is that the bigger the job, the more I sub out because I can't get it all done by myself in a timely manner. Generally, most work is kept in house until the job gets into the 5 or 6 digit range.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I am a two man show and we do sub out electrical, plumbing, insulation(on larger projects), drywall (on larger projects), painting, etc. We do all phases of demo, carpentry, framing, trim, tile, most flooring, cabinets, windows, siding (mostly wood or hardie). I don't hire a sub for something I am skilled at doing. I enjoy doing tile so I do my own tile, if not, I'd hire a tile sub to do the bathroom and kitchen tile for us. 

I think you are slowing yourself down thinking you and your guy can do all the plumbing work and other sub work yourselves in a timely manner. I would never attempt to do most of the plumbing work because I am not skilled enough in plumbing , and don't know all the codes. same goes for electrical, not even allowed to touch electrical in NJ unless yo are licensed. I can't believe there are states out there, letting jack of all trades do all the work on all their jobs, no wonder why there are house fires all over the place.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Same here, not much my sometimes partner and I can't handle, but for a big enough job we'll sub it out in the interest of efficiency.

No license required here for plumbing or electric, and neither is mysterious to me, so the above rule applies there as well.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

Our jobs are usually too small for subs to want to deal with. Plus the licensing requirements are a bit lax here, so we usually do everything. In the city we can legally run up to 10' of new pipe and change all the fixtures we want, otherwise outside of city limits it's no license required. 

Good Luck
Dave


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

were a complete reno outfit and do some new construction

all mechanical, plumbing, heating, electrical is subbed out.. drywall , flooring as well. if were really really busy like we are now we sub out the siding if we can get someone along with the trim, for large projects we sub out the painting as well. most of the subs we use are always the same people unless the homeowner has someone they want to use specifically although lately this has caused us problems
when things are steady i usually handle the interior trim with one other helper.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

It is really a time/money relative thing. If I have the time and I need the money... I'll stop short on major excavation


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

Most of our work is done in house. Unless its a large project where could use the extra help. Typically drywall and hardwood i sub out on large scale. Plumbing and electrical when permits are needed to be pulled. Other than that, for my operation, its done in house.


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

We are a small company of 3 guys who are a collection of jack-of-all-trades types. We hold an electrician and residential builder's license, so we can do quite a bit without having to call in a subcontractor. All the other skills of remodeling, we've learned through the years of working in various trades or doing independent research. We do sub out large drywall projects, plumbing and other specialty type stuff, but usually 90% of the work is done in-house. This often benefits the customer by keeping it simple (dealing mostly with one company) and it benefits us by giving us more of the work in a single project.

Some remodelers sub out everything and act as a general contractor, which is completely legitimate seeing as how coordinating a project and being a 1-stop customer liason to the project is a pretty demanding job in itself. Others prefer to be part of the action, working the job and organizing it simultaneously. Either way, it's all up to the individual to play to their strong suits. If you are a craftsman who sucks at planning, hire a project manager type person to keep you in line while you produce fine product. If it's the other way around, find a craftsman to run your jobs. Either way, there's no wrong or right way to do things. Take a hard look at yourself and then come up with a game plan for the future. :thumbsup:


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I have two employees and the only things I sub out are, plumbing, electrical, carpet and lino. sometimes paint.
We recently did a total gut in a small house, 820sq ft. The only original structure left was the exterior walls and the ceiling joists in the bedroom. I did sub the insulation, spray in the roof cavity, and batt. The owner supplied the drywaller.
When I was a younger naive apprentice, I asked my boss why he didn't sub more. His answer was " because I can yell at you'. At least he was smiling


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## wellbuilt home (Oct 22, 2007)

In the past we would sub all most every thing . 
Now we do every thing we can .
I have been doing larger jobs, hole house remodels . 
The only thing we don't ever do is electric work .
On larger jobs we sub electric , roofing, insulation , sheet rock , flooring .
I try to finish a job in under 3 months , The customers start to get tired of looking at us :laughing: John


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Plumbing and drywall texture I sub out, everything else I can usually do myself. My drywall guys yells at me for doing the mud and tape myself, he says I should have him do it. But I can't be competitive price wise subbing out that much of the project.


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## newfy (Dec 12, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> I am a two man show and we do sub out electrical, plumbing, insulation(on larger projects), drywall (on larger projects), painting, etc. We do all phases of demo, carpentry, framing, trim, tile, most flooring, cabinets, windows, siding (mostly wood or hardie). I don't hire a sub for something I am skilled at doing. I enjoy doing tile so I do my own tile, if not, I'd hire a tile sub to do the bathroom and kitchen tile for us.
> 
> I think you are slowing yourself down thinking you and your guy can do all the plumbing work and other sub work yourselves in a timely manner. I would never attempt to do most of the plumbing work because I am not skilled enough in plumbing , and don't know all the codes. same goes for electrical, not even allowed to touch electrical in NJ unless yo are licensed. I can't believe there are states out there, letting jack of all trades do all the work on all their jobs, no wonder why there are house fires all over the place.


Exactly what he said!


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I do complete bathrooms and do everything myself except electrical and paint. Works pretty good for me!


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

ApgarNJ said:


> I am a two man show and we do sub out electrical, plumbing, insulation(on larger projects), drywall (on larger projects), painting, etc. We do all phases of demo, carpentry, framing, trim, tile, most flooring, cabinets, windows, siding (mostly wood or hardie). I don't hire a sub for something I am skilled at doing. I enjoy doing tile so I do my own tile, if not, I'd hire a tile sub to do the bathroom and kitchen tile for us.
> 
> I think you are slowing yourself down thinking you and your guy can do all the plumbing work and other sub work yourselves in a timely manner. I would never attempt to do most of the plumbing work because I am not skilled enough in plumbing , and don't know all the codes. same goes for electrical, not even allowed to touch electrical in NJ unless yo are licensed. I can't believe there are states out there, letting jack of all trades do all the work on all their jobs, no wonder why there are house fires all over the place.


 Unless a permit is required, I can do the minor plumbing and electrical for a kitchen or bath remodel, and in most instances within the code. If the remodel requires structural alterations then sure permits are required and the P&E goes to trade specific professionals. It is sometimes hard to get a plumber or sparkie out for such small work anyhow


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

We do demo, trim, paint and layout. Sub most of the rest. More efficient.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

Just had this discussion with a buddy of mine.

If you are a contractor and sub everything out on a $12,000.00 remodel take 18% cut on all invoices that is only $2160.00. Plus any profit. To us that didn't seem like alot of money for 4 weeks worth of supervision/managment work. Unless you are using A+ subs that need little to no supervision. But then who lives in a perfect world where that is going to happen.

The problem is both of us like to do all the work ourselves and managing the job which can be challenging. He has alot more work than I do and right now he's faced with having to play contractor and sub everything out to keep up with the jobs, but the money doesn't look as good as doing the work himself.

To answer the orginal question. On a bathroom or kitchen (for example) I do everything myself except electric plumbing and painting. I sub all that out. My reason why with elec and plumbing is liablity. Don't want to be liable.

Drywall used to be set at a max of 12 sheets but that number keeps getting higher and higher for some reason.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Mix of inhouse and subs.


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

Depends on many things, like if its something out of my comfort zone, to simply not having the time or man power to get it done within the schedule.


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

At a certain point, you reach a "tipping" point. Even if you love doing all of the work yourself, when business grows to a certain level, you have to decide which hat to wear. A one man show can contract a certain amount of work, do it all himself and make a good living. But, again, as business grows, you will reach that tipping point where you have to wear both hats or, remove the installer/carpenter hat and put on the GC hat. You can also hire a project/production manager (more expense).

Contractors fail regularly by trying to do to much. They take on more work than they can handle (past the tipping point). While it appears more money is coming in with more business (it is) many forget to consider that more money is also going out and they find at the end of the year that all they did was trade dollars for dollars.


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