# Jet 15" planer - blades -brazed/carbon steel



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Jet 15" planer-
I just had some new blades (spares) made and the guy told me that there is a thin liner of brazed copper/silver in the blade, what is the difference with the new blades I have (no brazing) Carbon steel and the ones that came with the planer (brazed) , other than the metals used.

He could not give me a concrete answer to what the benefits were- I have 3 sets - the original being brazed and the other 2 carbon steel, what's the difference with the brazed blades and Carbon steel? 
Thanks
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

All I know is that since I got my OEM blades sharpened and obtained spares it hasn't worked the same. Worse.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*problems,,can you elaborate.*

Leo,
So what problems are you having with the NON OEM blades and what are they made of- no one has been able to tell me why the blades that came with the planer - are made the way they are- I'll call Jet Tomarrow. 
the replacemets I bought are working fine Tougnston carbide and they were only $55.00, I have been using them for over 6 months but it is time to get them resharpned- I don't like not having backups if need be. I'll have to get the name of the facility- I don;t know it off hand, but they cut/sharpened the blades write there at the facility-cool place! 


On a side note- hows that boat project coming along???
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I am having a chip beat problem. Where the chips that are cut off are traveling around with the blade and are beat into the wood leaving little scrape indentations. I never had this from the blades that were originally installed from the factory. I got them sharpened and reinstalled them with the supplied blade gauge. Ever since that day I have had this problem. 5 years now. Most told me it was my dust collector. I disagreed. It was right after they were sharpened that it started happening. I told my sharpener and he said he would redo the job, he did and no change. I called jet and the only thing I could get out of them that made any sense was the grind was wrong. I got their spec had my sharpener grind to that spec and no change, chip beat. I got a new vacuum system and was excited to see no chip beat. WRONG, still there. I have tried and tried and tried to get rid of this problem to no avail. The only thing left for me to do is buy a new set of OEM knives and see what happens.


The boat project is coming along slowly. I am not really working on it full time. Just enough to keep the owner off my back. I am working on a job for a uppity up in an insurance company with a salary fo 2 million plus. I want to impress this guy and get references from his friends.

So far on the boat job I have ordered and received the 4x8 sheets of peel and stick cherry veneer. I veneered the gauge cluster as a test sample and it came out very well. I made a glue up for making a copy of a table for the outer rear deck out of quarter sawn white oak that was formally made with laminate covered particle board and a plastic molding surrounding it. I made the new seat for the driver, just a simple marine plywood sub-frame to be upholstered by others. A bunch more stuff to do.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Leo,*

I think I have an idea as to what is going on with your planer,, I'll get back to you tomorrow -I had the same problem but it had to do with the chip guard,, to detailed , I'm spent-talk tomorrow:thumbsup:
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Played with that chip guard too. Up, down, close and off the machine. Low vacuum, high vacuum, no vacuum with the hood off. All the same. I think the only thing left is the knives.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Hey Brian. It's tomorrow.

Bump


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Leo,*

Had a few estimates yesterday/work/phone calls to return , trying to Loneframers quate for the Genie 24' contractor lifts- My appologies- Have to leave for work now- I need a clock stretcher- I did not forget about you- I will be back later this afternoon when I get a chance to pull out that information - will do TODAY, but later this afternoon:thumbsup: Have to leave for work now. 
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

No biggee, just doing a bump to keep it up in the page so you'd see it.

The hell with me, get those quotes out and feed your family.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Leo,
I know you said your sure it's not your collector, but did you try using the planer without the filter canister installed? I have to beat/shake down keep my Torit filter bags now & then to keep decent air draw. I plan on doubling my bags from 16" x 8' x 4bags, to 8 bags, in the near future for the same reason. The fine sanding dust is the killer. I added a 37"x60" Extrema thickness sander 4 years ago, & it drastically increased maintainance on my collertor bags.

It would be a simple test, & eliminate the collector sytem. I doubt it has anything to do with the blades.
Joe


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I went from a single bag 1 1/2HP collector to a 2 1/2HP cyclone. When the filters were virgin I tried my first board through it and it left the chipbeat. I have about 800 cfm going to the planer, it requires 500 cfm.

I've been dealing with this for about 5 years now. I have done extensive trouble shooting to try to solve this. I have even modified my machine which helped but didn't solve the problem. Until I get an OEM set of knives I will probably not try much elses. I have tried enough.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Leo,
I thought this thread had a lot of good info on it. Were you involved with it? It kinda sounds like one of them could've been you!
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Reground_Planer_Knives_Trapping_Chips.html
Joe


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I don't even have to look. Yes, it was me.

I am contributor L


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

And contributor "F" on this one?
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Chip_Dent_in_Planed_Lumber.html
It seems they covered it all!
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Hey Leo,*

Ok ,
no, not the hell with you- love to help my gumbazzies , especially when we share the same end of the business,
So ,
here goes,' Several areas that need to to be looked at: 
1.) the out feed roller on the planer has to be in line with the planer blade down by 0.5mm, , if it is off just a hair it will draw any chip near the out feed roller (if slightly up) will draw the chip in -ie: dent.
2.) for sh''ts & giggles- did you rearrange your equipment , did you add more equipment to the DC system, was the planner in the same spot after you had the blades sharpened- if you are not getting enough draw CFPM and there are leaks at your blast gates , or you have one open while your planing - you are bound to get that -but I am sure you know, but just checking,
3.) and this is crucial-please check your chip shroud- 1/8" - 1/16" of an inch offset from the blade- you don't want it close to the blades- just the opposite, if it is very close , bumped up as far as it can go- when the PL blade turns and meets the intersection of the edge on the shroud- the vacuum stops momentarily , chips drop , outdeed roller off on the the height and not parralel with cutting plane,, and then you end up with the situation you have. , 

I am telling you - you can solve this- just have to narrow it down. I wish I was there to help you, but obviously- that ain't happening.

I would start with the out feed roller first and foremost to make sure it is running 0.5mm down from the cutting edge tip- then go to the chip shroud. If the out feed roller is dead on, then cap off all your extensions- meaning disconnect the spider -cap them off- all of them accept the planer- just 1 line- if you run a board and there still is an issue- it's a mechanical adjustment on the chip shroud - narrowing it down further, now look at the chip shroud- move it back some, run it again,move it back more, you will have that board coming out smooth with out chip indentations-I guarantee it! 
these are the only issues that can cause this- along with your dust collection system- vacuum loss . you should never run "T"s in a DC system - they cause Vacuum blocks - always "Y"s 

We will get to the bottom of this and have you up and running with out those chip dents. Once you narrow it down and solve the problem - you won;t have any more issues with chip indentations- 
Brian:thumbsup:

On a side note: when was the last time you cleaned the chip guard, in-feed roller/out feed roller- when they are saturated with resins they will get transfered on every component inside the system- so a good cleaning of everything- Mineral spirits/fine wire brush and some patients- I do mine around every 6 months, or when I see what problems you have described . It is not your blade Leo- that is for sure:thumbsup:

let me know how you make out Leo- well get to the bottom of this:thumbsup: I can take pictures of mine - throw them up here for you- get some measurements- you let me know:thumbsup:
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I have no issues with the outfeed roller, the chips are not being pressed into the wood. 

The chip shroud sounds interesting.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Leo,*

Can you throw up a picture of what your talking about? I am guessing it looks like a tear drop randomly on the face? moisture content,direction of the grain- chip breaker adjustment- hard to say, if you get a chance throw a board in, if you get tare out, flip it around- see how it comes out? I am sure you know all this but - I am just trying to help out.
Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Leo,
Ok, from what I have read the last few days, here's what happens. The a big chip gets stuck to the leading edge of the knife. When the head is rotated around to the finished portion of wood (just after the final cut), the big chip is sandwiched between the kife & finished surface right before it makes a new cut, resulting in an indent in the wood. 
Since this scenario only happens on the top heads, it seems to me that the main culprit is gravity. Side, & bottom moulder heads don't seem to have this issue, but top ones do. If that is the case, controlling how the air flow hits the head should help lift the chips. Setting the chip breaker closer sure seems like it would also help.
Controlling the air so it lifts the chips, has to help.

I doubt the knife bevel has anything to do with it, but anything is possible in ideal circumstances. Knife bevel has more to do with tearout. The micro bevel acts as a chip limiter, & control the feed of the knife into the wood. I deal with similar issues on my lathe cutterheads, but with the main issue being self feeding problems.

As to why your planer was ok before sharpening, my guess would be that the knives got reset differently.
Anyway, just my $.02
Joe


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I have been using the factory gauge to reset the knives, I know they are set right on because I have never had to adjust my depth gauge, always been perfect. And now even more-so because I have a digital gauge and when I reset the knives it is usually within .005", the limit of the digitals accuracy. The problem you are describing is exactly what is happening. The chip is traveling around with the blade and getting trapped between the blade and the pc of wood making a scraping dent spot. Only thing about the knives being changed for the first time is nothing else changed. I did no adjustments other than swap out the knives. I didn't even have an wxtra set at that time so I have to wait a week for them to be sharpened.

I have my chip deflector as close to the knives as I can, any closer it would be cut. The planer roars when I put the DC on. It is so frick'n loud. The Jet tech said I might have to much vacuum, don't see how this is possible. I have adjusted the tension on the chipbreaker/holddown once, but that was way after the problem started.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Leo,
Maybe the incorrect micro bevel would cause larger chips to occur, resulting in higher probability of beating?
Joe


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Leo*

can you throw a picture of what the result is on the wood? So you had the original OEM blades sharpened and installed them and the you are having the same issue? Have you checked everything I mentioned-? I spoke to a representative from Jet today- it is not your blades Leo, he flat out told me - it is not a blade issue, which is what I thought. Are you planing a wood that you have not thrown through the planer before, I am telling you - we can get to the solution but pictures say a thousand words-
thank you,
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*does it look like this?*

Is the outcome similar to this picture Leo?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

No, that is chipout/tearout. Not even close.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*well Leo,*

I am just trying to help you out , probably is a tear drop shape , but - NEI,
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

This is Chipbeat produced by the planer. I worked to get a really good [bad] example for you. It is on Cherry.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Leo,
Did you have to leave your collector off to get that bad of an example? I've never seen anything even close to that.... with or without a collector!
Joe


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

No, DC on, all other gates closed.:shutup:


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Leo,
I still have to wonder if something is going on with the collector, but possibly your drive belts are slipping, & cutterhead is turning slow? Maybe there's a bad bearing or something else slowing cutterhead down? Does the motor sound right? Low rpm on cutterhead would be less apt to sling off chips. 
Joe


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Motors fine, spinning at normal RPM, left bearing is possibly a bit loose as I have chatter on the left side but not on the right. When I start the machine it jumps just like it always did. I never had the cutter head slow down, even when taking of 3/16"

I can make the surface clean with a .010 cut, but anything beyond that it can produce the chip beat. Not always land mor prone to do it on softer woods than harder.

I have taken the shroud off, the whole top and all and run the machine. I should get a nice clean board, but I don't. Still has chipbeat. Something is pulling the chips around that the vacuum can't overpower.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Another thing I did was to leave the top plate plat off the machine and have the shroud with the DC connected and running. There was no build up of chips, it took them away faster than they could be produced even with a 3/16" cut on a 14" wide board.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Bearing?*

I would have to say- look into that- that will definitely cause a problem planing any board. that is seriously bad Leo,the left side of the board is seriously flawed with that and narrows down to the right- I'm with Railman on this-good point, I never thought about the bearings - very good observation:thumbsup: .
Once in a great while I throw a board in running against the grain and that happens, but that is seriously biting into the wood. When you say left side of the planer- i am assuming - not the drive belt side, if thats the case- there is your problem- once they go - they go and it will cause round-out inside the bearing-ie; off balance slight wobble-. I would start there FIRST- I have a strong feeling you answered your own question-:thumbsup:
check it out-remove the belts- open her up, and check to see if there is the slightest bit of slop- if thats the case- if it were me- I would replace both of them. Jet said they are sealed for life and need no lubrication but that does not mean they will outlast the planer- depends on the usage

let us know what the situation is - :thumbsup: must be driving you nuts, don't turn her into a boat anchor just yet:no: It is a good planer:thumbsup:
Thanks Leo
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I can't see how the two are connected. Even if the bearing is sloppy (it isn't sloppy) why should that let chips come around with the cutterhead? It may definitely be the cause of my chatter, but I am not concerned with that aspect of it. It is very slight and sands out with 150 and barely an effort over the normal mill marks. If you can explain/convince me that the bearing has any relevance to the chipbeat problem I will look into it. I've already asked about the bearings and they are cheap. But the job is a pain to do. If I am going to go that far into the planer to get at the bearing I might as well throw in a Byrd cutterhead :w00t:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Just buy a new one cheap ass!!:laughing::laughing:

Mental note, don't buy a Jet huh?:whistling


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*I totally agree Leo-*

yes , maybe a bit of a pain - maybe not, depends on how you look at things- the satisfaction that "you" can take care of this is a reward in itself so look on the bright side my friend :thumbsup:

Railman is dead on,
if you have any play what so ever- your planing wood that may have slight dimensional differences on either side , you throw that puppy in pressure is even on the right side, mind you you have 2 parts of that planer that want to lift the cutter head on the left-more so than the right side- the belt tension, and the wood itself- the cutter head will not have even pressure- on the left side - it will hop out dead center from the bearing no matter what you do-dive into the wood on that side then come back up repeatedly, hence- that wonderful board you showed us- 
It's not that bad Leo to replace them - start from the top and work your way down- seriously- it is not as bad as you think- just have a clean work bench - your manual of the diagram handy and lay them out as you take parts off- Railman is write-:thumbsup:

Imagine my Oliver 20C pattern lathe with a bad bearings - and they were bad- used to be Babbitt- I had the whole headstock machined/bored and 6000 sealed bearings -4- rock solid and dead on now. When I had the babbitts I would be using my gouge and it would hit intermittently, only slightly , but the outcome was not acceptable- 1 day of that was enough I spent a crap load of money on her- but now - speechless- flawless and dead on - ,
so your bearing are critical ,
they need to be replaced - both of them - there really isn't any way to bypass the problem- 

on a side note: find out where the bearing are made- you DO NOT want Chinese bearing- you can get American bearings or Taiwanese - but not - Chinese. you can get them from a bearing distributor to match, sometimes with the OEM- they are not as good - JMO 
let us know how things work out - but do yourself a favor- replace them, I have a feeling your problem will disappear,

My hat goes off to you Railman:thumbsup: he's the guy that licked this-:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy
Brian


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*come on warrner*



WarnerConstInc. said:


> Just buy a new one cheap ass!!:laughing::laughing:
> 
> Mental note, don't buy a Jet huh?:whistling


 
come on Warner,,,,,,,,,,,I have the same planer- I can tell you it has worked very well, extremely well, and it was not cheep. Parts wear - simple as that- , If I had it my way- Everything OLIVER- before 1972 the Cadillac of WW equipment- you have your Festool, I have my Oliver- no pissing war-it's all good Warner:thumbsup:

yes I know where you are going with this----let me guess ,,,unfortunately, they don't make one- or do they?? 

I take it you don't like Jet WW equipment, it's OK:thumbsup: please- I respect you and a lot of others on here- I just think your having fun "nipping" on Leo's problem ( no pun intended) :jester:

It's all good:thumbsup:
Brian


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I don't know that I licked anything, but given what Leo has tried, I can think of how a bad bearing could affect the cut. It's could also be a balance issue. For a moment let's assume that prior to sharpening the knives the planer head was in balance, but a bearing was getting loose. If it's in balance the rotational concenrticity could still have been good. If the new set were not weight matched, then a loose bearing situation would be exagerated. The result could be the tips of the knives not following the same rotation to each other. One knife might be cutting, where the others could be doing the beating. If one knife is not as proud as the others, it's less apt to shed it's shavings. 
Just a thought
Joe


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I kinda like my 10hp Powermatic 221.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I just have to give Leo crap every now and then!
He has had this problem for a couple years that I know
of. By now I would have replaced something.

I have been bothering Leo for months about what kind of 
planer I should buy. I would love to have something. 
I need to poop or get off the pot!!


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Still don't have me convinced. I am never going to get the knives set so the tips are perfect with each other, never. I am going to get them within .003" easily. Probably within .001 +/-.

Are you guys sure we are looking at the same thing in the picture?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Still don't have me convinced. I am never going to get the knives set so the tips are perfect with each other, never. I am going to get them within .003" easily. Probably within .001 +/-.

Are you guys sure we are looking at the same thing in the picture?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I don't think it had anything to with the antique boards. I used the planer for quite a while before I changed the knives out and there was no problem except striations on my planed wood. And back then it didn't matter much, everything got hand planed and the lines were taken out with on sweep of the hand plane.


I mean, what else could it possibly be? I really don't think the bearing has anything to do with this problem. The machine was pretty new back then and I know the bearing wasn't a problem. Apparently I have had everything put together correctly as the gibbs aren't reversible. Nothing else that would affect the chip take up isn't really adjustable. I have adjusted the flow of the air through the planer using tape and different guides and it still stays the same. I have put on a completely different type of pickup for the DC using a 5" hose instead of reducing it to 4". All it did was get louder. I mean, what is left? The only thing I haven't done is put back a new set of OEM knives.


Signed, 

Frustrated as Hell.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Leo,*

Humor me,,, you did NOT check the bearings-,please check your clamshell- you really haven't ruled that out yet- no big deal-it will take you 15min, tops, take the belts off, open the hood , take the blades of- remove the chip plate,,,,etc,etc,,,,, grab that shell - I have a feeling ,,,,,,,,,,,, be back later- have to go to a bennefit- in the mean time , can you just try that?
Thanks
Brian


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Not gonna happen today. I set aside some time to play with the gibbs today. But I have work to accomplish an me playing w the planer right now isn't going to feed the family. Have to push it aside for another day.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Don't worry Leo, Gus gave me your CC# and address. Just tell me what kind of planer you want and I will let you know when to expect it.

I will give you 75 bucks for yours.:laughing:


You need to stop messing with it. It has ate up a ton of your time.

Call someone or find a new one.


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