# Anyone have a problem with home depot selling roofs,siding, gutters,...etc



## DKnafo (Feb 1, 2009)

ApgarNJ said:


> they aren't hiring my competition either. the guys i know in the area would never be caught dead subbing for HD in my area.
> the only stories i hear about HD are horror stories. like the customer that i gutted and redid a bathroom for 5 years ago. they had just got done with a full kitchen renovation, they didn't know me at the time, and this goon took 9 months to do a small little kitchen that was 11x12. it was just him, no one else helped him and they were without a kitchen for 9 freakin months!!! and it wasn't even a total gut job, we are talking, Cabinets, island, counters and tile backsplash, no windows were replaced etc.
> 
> now i just got done doing 18 windows in their house, which is a 1700's stone farm house. and now they are asking me to rip out the whole kitchen after only 5 years because it's total junk. i'll go in and gut the kitchen/eating area down to the studs and spray foam, and start over.
> ...



You have never heard horror stories from non-Home depot installs? seriously. 

It is fairly obvious that the majority of home depot installs get through without much more hassle then a typical contractor. The thing is they huge and do such a large volume you hear a lot more horror stories about them. 

Its the same with all large businesses. If you go by word of mouth or internet sites EVERY SINGLE large business is terrible without any happy customers. Just type any large business followed by sucks and you will find large number of forums bemoaning how bad they are. Best buy suck, walmart sucks, verizon sucks, cable vision sucks, Home depot sucks. time warner sucks etc etc. 

Its amazing how these companies stay in business don't you think?

It all goes down to the old saying happy customers tell 1 or 2 people unhappy customers keep spreading it.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

DKnafo said:


> How is Home depot not fueling the economy? Or how is the yard you go to fueling local business more then the box stores? seems Home depot provides good benefits to even there part time employees. Does your local yard do the same?
> 
> https://careers.homedepot.com/cg/content.do?p=benefits
> 
> ...


OK if you insist.

First I don't have nor want a HD within 45 miles of me. We do have a blowes about 25 miles, but every time I go in there I run into a bunch of people wearing smocks that couldn't find their ass with both hands

Yes the yard that I use supplies benefits to everyone. I know guys that have been there before I was born and others that have retires from there spending almost their entire lives working for the same man. They are not corporate America and will match any price given, by anyone if I were to push them...I don't.

If I have a problem I go see Raymond or Donnie. They are brothers, who's father started the mill. Raymond is 85 yeas old and still working. Donnie is upper 70s (not real sure exact age) If I need something on a Sunday afternoon, I can stop by either's house and they will make sure I get what I need with payment to be made later if necessary. I put a deck on Donnie's house the year before last and my cousin who is also a contractor does all of Raymond's work

Enough reasons?:laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

DKnafo said:


> Yes, I forgot this is contractor talk where only the best of the best come


Oh no....the secret is out...:shifty:


:laughing:


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## DKnafo (Feb 1, 2009)

PA woodbutcher said:


> OK if you insist.
> 
> First I don't have nor want a HD within 45 miles of me. We do have a blowes about 25 miles, but every time I go in there I run into a bunch of people wearing smocks that couldn't find their ass with both hands
> 
> ...


nope, you haven't answered any of my questions. As for service, I agree I rarely ask for help in a box store. Other then general directions. 

though that Yard sounds real nice. never heard of a small outfit like that that gives medical, dental etc to even there part time workers. Still doesn't mean they are better for the community then the lowes who also does that and probably like this yard of yours gives a fair bit to local charities.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

DKnafo said:


> You have never heard horror stories from non-Home depot installs? seriously.
> 
> It is fairly obvious that the majority of home depot installs get through without much more hassle then a typical contractor. The thing is they huge and do such a large volume you hear a lot more horror stories about them.
> 
> ...


I have heard horror stories of non HD installs but the fact is, there are More horror stories coming from the HD installs because I hear about them all the time from all different people. 

They have such low prices on things, I am not sure how they pay a quality contractor to actually do the work.

maybe on newer homes they can do an ok job, but only a certain kind of contractor has the patience and know how to work on older homes and do a quality job.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

DKnafo said:


> How is Home depot not fueling the economy? Or how is the yard you go to fueling local business more then the box stores? seems Home depot provides good benefits to even there part time employees. Does your local yard do the same?
> 
> https://careers.homedepot.com/cg/content.do?p=benefits
> 
> ...


OK we'll go line by line
*
How is Home depot not fueling the economy?* Never said they weren't

*Or how is the yard you go to fueling local business more then the box stores?* They have all the work in the yard done by local contractors...contractors that use them as suppliers. I have done a few jobs for them both as the lumber yard and as individuals. They are pretty good at spreading the work around. No one, contractor does all their work adn they don't generally even ask about a price, it's just do it and bill me..never been a problem. I would be willing to bet there have been hundreds of houses built in our area, financed by this yard.

*Home depot provides good benefits to even there part time employees. Does your local yard do the same? * Yes from insurance to a 401K and profit sharing program.

As far as charities....All the time. They make donations to all of the local volunteer fire department and churches. Out here in the the rural areas, there is always a benefit of some sort going on for someone that has cancer, home has burned with no insurance, unexpected death dealing a blow to a young family or something along those lines. They give freely for all of these things, all the time. That is why people remain loyal to them.

As far as service. They carry almost everything that a box store carries, plus native lumbers...and quality is twice as good, little need for culling. They have their own truss plant, sawmill, planer and molder shed...they can make what I want, when I want.


Question for you, or statement take it as you wish. You either, directly work for HD, are a sub-contractor for HD or are a major stock holder in said company


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

not necessarily local to me but the largest lumber yard for so. vt now offers installations, complete with 3 vans lettered to the nines, now i go there as rare as i can. I can't believe the local contractors still buy from them, i know their options are limited but still, order it in from others!


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## jhammer7 (Nov 19, 2009)

*David and Goliath*

Qualified remodeler magazine had an article within the last two years stating that HD was embarking on a five year push to increase market share of the install market in many different areas. What HD does Lowes will follow. These initiatives will continue make it more difficult for true independant contractors to compete against. While they continue to spend money to create a market for their products just as Hallmark and many other successful companies do. I for one would like to see the NHBA take a more aggressive position on this. Perhaps they already are and I've not heard about it and if someone has and they could post it that would be great. HD will only be successful at this if we as a collective group allow them to because they are exploiting a market demand. 

Live free or Die! United WE Stand!!!


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

HD has pushed out more and more competitors so many times there is no option than to use them. They are in fact a monopoly in many areas and with that power comes the power to manipulate prices. They also buy more and more of their product from China, setting up factories there to manufacture products that used to be one of the bastions of American production, items such as faucets, tools, sinks, the list goes on and on. They continue to try to suck up everything they can with the goal of being THE ONLY OPTION. They are like the robber barons from the early part of the last century and I pray they will be broken up but I'm not holding my breath on it.


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## DKnafo (Feb 1, 2009)

PA woodbutcher said:


> OK we'll go line by line
> *
> How is Home depot not fueling the economy?* Never said they weren't.


You did write " I make that fact know to my customers who in turn appreciate the fact that they are fueling the local economy."

which led me to think you thought they didn't.



PA woodbutcher said:


> *Or how is the yard you go to fueling local business more then the box stores?* They have all the work in the yard done by local contractors...contractors that use them as suppliers. I have done a few jobs for them both as the lumber yard and as individuals. They are pretty good at spreading the work around. No one, contractor does all their work adn they don't generally even ask about a price, it's just do it and bill me..never been a problem. I would be willing to bet there have been hundreds of houses built in our area, financed by this yard.


Sounds like a great yard. And because of there service and friendlyness I would definatly go there myself if I was in your shoes. But they really aren't doing anything diffrently then a box store in fueling local business.



PA woodbutcher said:


> *Home depot provides good benefits to even there part time employees. Does your local yard do the same? * Yes from insurance to a 401K and profit sharing program.
> 
> As far as charities....All the time. They make donations to all of the local volunteer fire department and churches. Out here in the the rural areas, there is always a benefit of some sort going on for someone that has cancer, home has burned with no insurance, unexpected death dealing a blow to a young family or something along those lines. They give freely for all of these things, all the time. That is why people remain loyal to them.
> 
> As far as service. They carry almost everything that a box store carries, plus native lumbers...and quality is twice as good, little need for culling. They have their own truss plant, sawmill, planer and molder shed...they can make what I want, when I want.


That's great.




PA woodbutcher said:


> Question for you, or statement take it as you wish. You either, directly work for HD, are a sub-contractor for HD or are a major stock holder in said company


Nope never worked for them or any box store. I do not own and have never owned any stock in any box store.

Its just the ignorant statements on these companies always annoy me. Like I said every large business has tons of complaints and if you go by forums or horror stories you would be amazed that they are still in business. the fact is these companies have many times more happy customers then they have complaints. the complainers are always louder though. 

Plus the ridiculous condemnation of all the thousands of contractors that work for home depot just because they work for them gets to me to even though I never worked for them myself. Heck we have even had some people on this board admit they worked for them. and we know that no one on contractor talk is a hack.

The whole thought process on these box stores is just illogical.


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## DKnafo (Feb 1, 2009)

Rio said:


> HD has pushed out more and more competitors so many times there is no option than to use them. They are in fact a monopoly in many areas and with that power comes the power to manipulate prices. They also buy more and more of their product from China, setting up factories there to manufacture products that used to be one of the bastions of American production, items such as faucets, tools, sinks, the list goes on and on. They continue to try to suck up everything they can with the goal of being THE ONLY OPTION. They are like the robber barons from the early part of the last century and I pray they will be broken up but I'm not holding my breath on it.


Home depot owns factories in china? and produce faucets, tools, and sinks? I did not know that. What brand do they do that with? Or are you saying they own Kohler, dewalt, ridgid, makita etc..?


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## jhammer7 (Nov 19, 2009)

Rio,

Same thing with Walmart. 

If there is enough pushback (HD) will get out of the business and just sell their stuff. I think ACE is actually trying to make a bigger push by surrounding them and I hope there successful. They have closed all of their EXPO stores and that can only help the higher quality market.

Many local independant restaurants compete with the chain shops by producing a great product with great service. With a little organizing and national push we could keep them in their stores.

For guys that I've talked to about installing for them they say that they have to jump though a lot of hoops and they are pseudo employees without the benefits.

my 2 cents


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

the gentleman from Staten Island has a point...just because someone works for a box store doesn't make them a hack,and not buying from there doesn't make you a craftsman...which is i believe the point he is trying to make


jmo suppliers shouldn't be installers too


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## jhammer7 (Nov 19, 2009)

None of the brands you mentioned however they do have agreements and proprietary products with many manufacturers and come to think of It someone here probably knows the history of their relationship with Ridgid.

I think they have a place in the market, however if allowed to go unchecked they will continue to Define the marketplace.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

DKnafo said:


> The whole thought process on these box stores is just illogical.


In my experience it's not.

Home Depot markets mainly to the DIY crowd..."You can do it. We can help." Surely that's not aimed at contractors.

Home Depot (and Lowes) is a marketing machine. They survive on quantity. They buy enormous quantities which lowers their prices and sell a ton. However, they do not cater to small contractors. Did you know a few short years before the economy collapsed, you needed a minimum order of $25,000 before you could submit it to the bid room? And even then, there was no guarantee it would be accepted for discount. Yes, they've lowered their criteria for submitting to the bid room, however, you still need a minimum quantity before it will be considered (and maybe accepted). If I'm remodeling a bathroom do you think I'll need $5000 worth of building materials? :no: That is not catering to the little remodeler. Sorry I don't need to deal with the added complications to _maybe _get a discount over retail.

Furthermore, most of their lumber is not as good as I can get from a local lumber yard. Time and time again, I'll have to go through 15 2x4's to get one that doesn't look like a hockey stick. The plywood is usually warped and they don't carry ACX EGP like I prefer to use for floors.

Finally, most of their special orders take 4-6 weeks for delivery. Try getting an interior pre-hung door for 2x6 framing. I can get the same from my local lumber yard within 2 weeks...and usually cheaper. I also get more of an option when it comes to the quality of material. I can get "standard" quality doors...say like Jeld-Wen or I can go higher end like WoodHarbor. And choices in between.

Any company that's local, supports the local economy. But places like Home Depot are also taking their dollars and spending them on things like..race cars. That's all well and good. But overall, the knowledge and service has always been better (for me) at my local building supplier. 

If anyone chooses to shop at a big box store, I think they are short changing themselves to some extent. But that's the beauty of our economic system. More power to you and your orange vest friends. For me, Woody at Alexander Lumber is my go-to guy!


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

The people in my area, most of them at least know that HD is not going to do a good job because you'll get some one in there that just screws up the job most of the time. The word is out there. yes there will always be the crowd to go to them but I know plenty of people who would never think of hiring them to do any installs, the subs they hire are always from out of town or from the city and stuff just gets slapped up and it's all about time not about quality. I can't wait to see my cousins kitchen when they are done.

I am not worried at all about HD or Lowes taking over the market share. if someone wants to go to them and think they will get a quality job, then that's the customer I don't want anyways.

plus when it's screwed up. i can tell them, you get what you pay for.


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## DKnafo (Feb 1, 2009)

angus242 said:


> In my experience it's not.
> 
> Home Depot markets mainly to the DIY crowd..."You can do it. We can help." Surely that's not aimed at contractors.
> 
> ...


all valid points and not part of that illogical thinking I mentioned earlier. Though I question the idea that there wood is not as good. 

Tomstruble explained what I was trying to say better then I did.Thanks Tom


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## Home Serve (Apr 26, 2007)

My opinion is I never buy anything from HD or Lowes unless I have to. Why support them? I don't need them. I support my local full service lumber yard every way I can. I want them to stay in business not HD etc.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

DKnafo said:


> all valid points and not part of that illogical thinking I mentioned earlier. Though I question the idea that there wood is not as good.
> 
> Tomstruble explained what I was trying to say better then I did.Thanks Tom


To be honest, I didn't fully read the entire thread and I wasn't try to rebuttal your views. I guess I just picked your comment as a starting point.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Home Depot and Lowes are responsible for many of our sales.
When people get the itch to remodel the local big box is where they will first turn to for ideas.
In order to qualify their decisions people are shopping around (getting the 3 bids the experts recommend).
This creates the opportunity to sell them on the things that set us apart from the big boxes. Choices, expertise,service etc. at a price that is competitive.
Competition is good.
If you don't get the sale, you really didn't want it anyway, you wouldn't have made any money because the decision was based solely on price.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

A few things I have Learned about the "bug box store model" items. There are some companies that make a department store version of the product. It has a different model number, and the differences may not be a big deal, or it might. Depends. Dewalt makes several tools that has a slightly different model number for box stores. Alot of companies do, but there the biggest. You can google the model number and it will tell you what it is. Appliances are very big at this. Some times it's just a couple options missing on the appliance so the price is less and it appears the same. Bosh makes stuff for lowes and has lb L at the end of the model number. GE does the same but it's a generic dept store number. Even licoln welders are made for a department store. It's all small differences but it gets the price down.
As for as Ridgid and royobi, home depot owns them in some way. That's why they push them and husky as much as they can. Just like lowes pushing kobalt. Higher profit margin.


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