# bathroom remodel question



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I'm looking at a 20yr old house to complete a bathroom remodel. The electrical panel lists 1 gfci, which is located next to the panel (in the garage). The bathroom's do not have a gfci (not sure if they feed off the garage's gfci). 

question: in a bathroom remodel, does a new circuit need to be run from the panel to the gfci? The customer wants to add an exhaust fan-would this be run off the existing lighting circuit, the new gfci circuit or a homerun? Is there something in the code about not having the lighting circuit on the outlet circuit (gfci or not) in a bathroom? 

I was discussing a whirlpool tub with them and I recall a dedicated line needs to be run w/ a gfci at the tub or a breaker in the box-dedicated as not allowed to piggy back an exhaust fan?

thanks,


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Don't know about the code (others will cover that) but it's good practice not to have the lighting protected by the GFCI outlet. Kind of hard to re-set in the dark.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

but would it be 'ok' to have the lighting before the GFCI on the new circuit? is it allowed to have the new line go into a box, split one pigtail to the gfci and another line up to the fan?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Like I said, wait for the others...they'll be here by and by.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Bathroom—Codes require at least one outlet in a bathroom., but it must be a GFCI within 3 feet of the sink on a separate 12/2 wired home run to panel. Lights and fan can tie into another circuit.

Light/ exhaust fan installed in shower stall or tub/shower unit—must be GFCI protected.

Exhaust fan can be installed directly above tub.

Paddle fan—blade tips must be at least 3 feet from edge of shower stall or tub.

*BATHROOMS*
*210.11 Branch Circuits Required.
(C) Dwelling Units.
(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, 
at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
have no other outlets.
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single**bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance**with 210.23(A)(1) and (2). **A bathroom receptacle must be served with a 20 amp circuit (#12 on a 20 amp breaker). *


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

I would run a 20A ckt to the bathroom...protecting JUST the recept.

The lighting circuit - unless heavily loaded - I would add the EF/Light combo.
If the lighting circuit IS heavily loaded, wire the EF/Light combo (and/or ALL lighting in that one bath) to the line side of the GFI....UNLESS the light fixtures are required (their will be a sticker saying GFI protect) to be GFI'ed...there is NO requirement to GFI protect them in a bathroom.


Typically, a fixture over a shower would be the one you see a sticker on - but this is not always the case...sometimes there is no sticker - it depends on the fixture. 

NJ's "Rehab Code" would allow me to leave the bath "as is"....I would try and steer the HO towards adding a new circuit....not so much for money, but rather for a better finished product (aka, a satisfied customer)


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

72chevy4x4 said:


> but would it be 'ok' to have the lighting before the GFCI on the new circuit? is it allowed to have the new line go into a box, split one pigtail to the gfci and another line up to the fan?


Yes, that would be fine and wired to code as long as the new 20 amp individual branch circuit you plan on running only feeds electrical equipment in that bathroom. 

210.11 (C)(3)
_Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23 (A)(1) and (A)(2)._


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Light/ exhaust fan installed in shower stall or tub/shower unit—must be GFCI protected.


I'm going to need a code article for that statement.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Celtic said:


> I'm going to need a code article for that statement.


110.3(B).

You're not going to find an exhaust fan on the market, of the one's typically installed in dwelling units bathrooms, that aren't so labeled from the manufacturer.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I never, ever, ever, ever, ever install an exhaust fan inside the actual shower itself.

Do you?


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## Tmrrptr (Mar 22, 2007)

Well, I'll admit when I get caught. I wire remodels. Zero new construction.
I was unaware of NEC requirement for a dedicated 20a bathroom gfci circuit.

Thats overkill, IMO. Point of use gfci on a 15a general purpose circuit should suffice for a hair dryer or toothbrush/shaver charger, IMO.
And I would not hesitate to run another bath off that protected receptacle.

From what I just read, above, it's probably a good thing my opinion wasn't solicited!

I wouldn't think twice about putting a cheapo fart fan on a general purpose circuit, and would NEVER put one within an enclosure, unless rated for that.

If a nameplate rating calls for a dedicated circuit, well, that's what it gets.

When I did wire complete houses, every room got two circuits, for the 'lights out' scenario. I was never one to run everything in 12/2 20a circuits just to standardize, or, "You never know what power consuming device they will come out with, next year..." It has been the opposite. I ran 14/2 romex 15a gp circuits because they do the job, are easy to work with, compared to 12/2, and are cheaper to install. 
If a 20a circuit is needed, do it!
GREAT BB !
Today I've learned I MUST buy a new NEC book.
r


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Tmrrptr said:


> Well, I'll admit when I get caught. I wire remodels. Zero new construction.
> I was unaware of NEC requirement for a dedicated 20a bathroom gfci circuit.
> 
> Thats overkill, IMO. Point of use gfci on a 15a general purpose circuit should suffice for a hair dryer or toothbrush/shaver charger, IMO.
> ...



If you re-read the posts and properly assemble them you will find there are two ways to wire bathrooms.

1) One circuit (gfi protected) does the receptacles only in multiple bathrooms only. You can use this circuit (20A) for nothing else, only bathroom receptacles. The lighting and exhaust fans in the bathroom are off other circuits.

2) One circuit (20A) for one bath. This circuit may do the lighting, fan(s) and the receptacle(s) providing you don't overload the circuit.

The other issue is that whirlpool type tubs require their own dedicated circuit.

When you change the wiring in a bath (as in the case described) the new work must meet code. So, you can't add an exhaust fan to the existing circuit because that circuit does not meet current code. Your suggestion of adding a single 20A circuit meets code and is the best way to do it. Disconnect the existing receptacle and lighting from the circuit they are currently on and put the new fan along with the lighting and receptacle on the added circuit. Do not run the lighting off the load side of the GFI receptacle so the light won't go out when the receptacle trips. This is a good practice but not code required.


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## househelper (Mar 20, 2007)

Tmrrptr said:


> Well, I'll admit when I get caught. I wire remodels. Zero new construction.
> I was unaware of NEC requirement for a dedicated 20a bathroom gfci circuit.
> r


I would say you have been out of touch for awhile. That has been a requirement since at least 1996.


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

A 20 amp circuit for the bathroom(s) is NOT overkill. A single hairdryer can use up more than half of that.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

A 1500 watt hair dryer operating at 120 volts uses 12.5 amps. Add a curling iron and whatever else the Mrs may use and those 20 amps go quickly.

P/E = I


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> A 1500 watt hair dryer operating at 120 volts uses 12.5 amps. Add a curling iron and whatever else the Mrs may use and those 20 amps go quickly.
> 
> P/E = I


Maybe it's just me but I'd rather watch her use the battery stuff.


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

randomkiller said:


> Maybe it's just me but I'd rather watch her use the battery stuff.


:laughing:
At least she's not dimming the lights, or making the TV flicker when she puts it under load :thumbup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> Maybe it's just me but I'd rather watch her use the battery stuff.



That's because you're a perv :laughing:

j/k


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## Andy in ATL (Aug 17, 2007)

Celtic said:


> That's because you're a perv :laughing:
> 
> j/k


Post of the week.:clap:


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

Sparky Joe said:


> :laughing:
> At least she's not dimming the lights, or making the TV flicker when she puts it under load :thumbup:


 
I'd dim the lights, kill the tv and pt her under load so to speak.


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