# Busy or Making Money?



## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

I am always asked by other painters and contractors(big difference) if I am busy. My brother-in-law had one of the biggest and busiest painting companys in the Northeast for years. He was always busy with work but made no money.

My next door neighbor is a 2 man show who also stays busy almost yr round with work. He should because his rate is $30 dollars an hour.
He has no health insurance drives a beat up old van and always complains he has no money.

The stats show 90% painters are out of business in 2-5yrs, number one reason is they do not charge enough for there work.


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## SeanATL (Apr 6, 2007)

THINKPAINTING said:


> I am always asked by other painters and contractors(big difference) if I am busy. My brother-in-law had one of the biggest and busiest painting companys in the Northeast for years. He was always busy with work but made no money.
> 
> My next door neighbor is a 2 man show who also stays busy almost yr round with work. He should because his rate is $30 dollars an hour.
> He has no health insurance drives a beat up old van and always complains he has no money.
> ...


Good point, and I saw you mention it in my other thread. If you're doing $30k a month, that's great, but if you're only making a 5% margin, that sucks.


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## NSolano (Dec 16, 2004)

maybe he is hiring tier subcontractors to do the work for him. Stay away from those, they are a big headache. Hire hourly painters and a foreman to make sure they are doing their job right. You will pay less and save yourself from having to come back to fix the work. Extra time means extra money spent. 
Also save your money from buying really expensive NEW trucks, buy some used ones from like 2002 or around there. You don't need brand new trucks to do your work. (just make sure the used ones you buy don't have many miles or are beat down)
Finally, your equipment should be NEW, don't buy used stuff when it comes to this. Your equipment should be the newest and best thing you own because you don't want your work to affected by this.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

As a painting contractor it can get tricky out there, most of the Home Owners I deal with want to do their own painting anymore. They just need someone to fix their ceilings and walls, like I've been told by many "Anyone can paint!" I tell them yes and so can a dog if you keep paint on his tail and keep him happy so he waggs it. But most people can't paint, I mean watch some of the DIY shows these people can't paint, most of them don't even use an extensin pole when they paint. I had a customer tell me she was going to do the painting. I said fine I told her I would get the room ready for paint then, After we finished up I told her she needed to prime everything then spackle as needed, she freaked out and said don't you do that, I said no that's the painters job to do the perp work. she didn't know what that was so I explained what she needed to do. She could not believe that had to be done before she could paint. some people can paint NOT! 
As for your neighbor not making money he probly drinks it away.:laughing: Most painters do.:thumbsup:


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

As for your neighbor not making money he probly drinks it away.:laughing: Most painters do.:thumbsup:[/quote]

Glad you inserted "MOST" Now that gets a :thumbup:


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

Frankawitz said:


> As a painting contractor it can get tricky out there, most of the Home Owners I deal with want to do their own painting anymore. They just need someone to fix their ceilings and walls, like I've been told by many "Anyone can paint!" I tell them yes and so can a dog if you keep paint on his tail and keep him happy so he waggs it. But most people can't paint, I mean watch some of the DIY shows these people can't paint, most of them don't even use an extensin pole when they paint. I had a customer tell me she was going to do the painting. I said fine I told her I would get the room ready for paint then, After we finished up I told her she needed to prime everything then spackle as needed, she freaked out and said don't you do that, I said no that's the painters job to do the perp work. she didn't know what that was so I explained what she needed to do. She could not believe that had to be done before she could paint. some people can paint NOT!
> As for your neighbor not making money he probly drinks it away.:laughing: Most painters do.:thumbsup:


He does not make any money because his hourly rate is $30 dollars an hour. Once he gets through paying all his overhead etc...there is not much left. He does not drink and he's been in business for over 40 years.


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## KellyPainting (May 30, 2006)

BURP! 
.... what were we talking about again?


http://www.contractortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5196&stc=1&d=1176424420
drunk01.gif


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

*I'm busy AND make money*

I'm new in the business and I've been steady except for 1 month out of the past 13 months. I am not the most expensive guy, but I'm not the cheapest. 

I'm not sure what your looking for as an "answer" to this thread, but I am busy AND I make good money...Some things that help...

I dont drink, I dont spend frivilously, I dont smoke, I dont eat fast food, I dont drink coffee.


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## farrellpainting (Feb 24, 2007)

Think, I think I can answer your question with two questions?

Does one, PAINTING CONTRACTOR have foresight of the future and has developed a plan to achieve his/her goal?:thumbsup: 

Or, does a PAINTER have this great idea that he can make more $$$ if he does everything himself?:no:


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

KellyPainting said:


> BURP!
> .... what were we talking about again?
> 
> 
> ...


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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## BENPM (Jul 8, 2007)

FarrellPainting makes the best comment on this thread. If you are not building a business but rather trying to do everything yourself you will not grow your company and make good money. You may hit it lucky with a job that pushes you to the next level by luck...but luck is not a business plan. Pricing, marketing and knowing your marketplace are part of business thinking and that is how you make money.

Ben


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

[email protected], I think you and I share the same opinions.


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> [email protected], I think you and I share the same opinions.


Ken, still amazes me how contractors will defend there $30 dollar an hour mind set.................


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## lornmastro (Mar 17, 2006)

good points...I'm now trying to get out of the bucket and was wondering if you used a marketing person to figure out how you want to market your company or if you went at it on your own?I often wonder if i make this way more complicated than it is:wallbash:


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

Nick,
I am amazed when someone justifies the $100/hr mindset. If you can bill at $100/hr, 50 hours a week, 40 weeks per year, you might make a halfway decent living but in exterior/seasonal work the actual tally comes nowhere near that. Someone billing $30 per hour will not be around long. If they are, they are a paid hobbyist that owns a job not a business.


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## myshtern (Jun 18, 2007)

I think your problems are in the fact your costs/living expenses are too high, not that you're charging your customers too much. 

Not everyone can paint, but lets face it - most people can. If they don't know how, they'll go to a seminar a free seminar at home depot.


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## Joewho (Sep 20, 2006)

People can't paint. Most people don't really know what good paint work is. This is a trade where you can't just cut on the dotted line. It does take experience and it shows.
From way down here, starting from scratch, it makes me feel bad to see this thread. I have to remind myself I'm starting from scratch.

30/hr AFTER expenses is just fine for me. I'll go contract a job by myself, make rate or more, and not have to worry about getting up and working for some slob that wants to make money off my back.

At first, I thought the title was a serious question, if everyone is working and making money. Darn, I wanted to say I'm doing better and better.


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## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

30/hr AFTER expenses is just fine for me. I'll go contract a job by myself, make rate or more, and not have to worry about getting up and working for some slob that wants to make money off my back.


Joe-Who??...that is what is going to be asked around the paint store unless you raise your rates


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

$30 an hour after D&I expenses, materials, payroll, workmens comp and liability insurance etc etc is livable. But to get to that you better be billing at $60+ per man hour and be running crew(s) 5 days per week to get there. If you are biling at $30 /hr plus materials I wil blow TAPS for you now. You won't be in business more than a couple of years.


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## KellyPainting (May 30, 2006)

Busy...2 months in advance... working Com Ave Boston right now... paying bills that I couldn't afford to pay last month (new construction). Have trimed down.... just me now.... have a helper maybe one day a week. More money coming in it seams.... And going out.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

KellyPainting said:


> working Com Ave Boston right now... paying bills that I couldn't afford to pay last month


Just outa intererst, what's your city day rate ?

After advice from others hangers who work the city, I tell people $600/day for Boston, Cambridge & Brookilne, and no one bats an eye. Little different than out around 128. 

But with all the hassles of city work, ya charge that. 

-Bill


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## Thewallfixer (Apr 18, 2006)

I had this job the other day. Someone bought a house and wanted to get as much painted as possible in 2 days. So I got a buddy of mine(I am my only employee) to help and we painted a lot. The home owner also hired this other guy off craigslist. I read his ad, something like I am teacher I paint in my off time in the summer I charge $25 an hour. Dude showed up without a paint brush. I think the only thing he had was one "dropcloth" the one ply plastic kind that coverd half of the room I sent him in to paint. He alos had a real snotty attitude when I tried to give him a pointer or two, I couldn't help it I felt bad for the homeowner.

People do think they can paint. I feel bad for the homeowner, that teacher was slooooooooooooow, and not very good.

Luckily I am really good at repairing plaster and that's how I get most of my jobs so I don't ever have to worry about competing with clowns like this guy. But they are out there.

And on the other end are the guys on craigslist who advertise they will beat any price. Great, that's what we need, a race to the bottom. 

The way I look at it plaster repair and painting are really diffcult, especially compared to most office jobs so I charge a lot and am continually busy, since last april I have two weeks off not by choice. 

Thanks to Craigslist mostly.



Joewho said:


> People can't paint. Most people don't really know what good paint work is. This is a trade where you can't just cut on the dotted line. It does take experience and it shows.
> From way down here, starting from scratch, it makes me feel bad to see this thread. I have to remind myself I'm starting from scratch.
> 
> 30/hr AFTER expenses is just fine for me. I'll go contract a job by myself, make rate or more, and not have to worry about getting up and working for some slob that wants to make money off my back.
> ...


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## Da Vinci (Jun 24, 2007)

My suggestion? Market to the HIGH END neighborhoods. Every city has areas where the homes are way more expensive than the average.

IF you are good enough and are meticulous, neat, efficient, and knowledgeable, you can earn a great living by raising your rates and focusing on these areas. We all only have 40-50 hours a week to work (not including bids/paperwork:thumbsup, it takes the same time to work for wealthier clients as it does to work for those who can't afford anything but cheap.

There is also a "perception" when a painting company has just maybe one employee as opposed to a couple crews. The guy with crews says "established company", while the part time employee+painter looks like a guy who has a job.

I've noticed with my company, the more guys I have, the more referrals come in because people know I can get some guys on it right away. Does that make sense?

Bay Area Painting Company


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