# The Wood-fired oven thread



## stonecutter

To help prevent future hijackings with pizza oven pictures and all manor of wood-fire cooking related topics (For which I am guilty of) I wanted to start this thread to share ideas for building ovens, recipes, favorite pizza places, etc.

I'll start with the only pictures of a pizza I made from my oven in CT...
















The oven...


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## griz

That is a cool looking oven & pizza...:thumbsup:

B est I can do is a stone on the bbq...


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## shanekw1

That oven is beautiful.


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## lukachuki

Had to search but finally tracked you down.

That is definitely one of the nicest ovens I have ever laid eyes on. Looking forward to seeing this thread grow.


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## stonecutter

griz said:


> That is a cool looking oven & pizza...:thumbsup:
> 
> B est I can do is a stone on the bbq...


I think we can allow that, just include the recipe if any:thumbsup:


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## Tscarborough

That is a lovely oven, BUT I see smoke stains on the face. What size flue did you use?


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## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> That is a lovely oven, BUT I see smoke stains on the face. What size flue did you use?


T, I believe it was 8x8. But the stains are not because of poor draw..

I started ALL my fires in the vent area to heat my flue quicker...which is pretty close to the outter edge. This would always create some smoke that traveled up the face for a couple minutes until I acheived draw. Then I would take my metal peel and push the fire back into the oven and heat up the dome like normal. I also build a small "smoke shelf" in the vent to help prevent down drafts before heat up. Here is a picture where you can kind of see the edge of the shelf.









Believe me when I say, I got ZERO down draft when I was using the oven...and we really used that thing a lot before we moved.


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## Tscarborough

No need to do that, build the fire in the oven, the oven itself provides the draw. 

I bet you hated to walk away from that, it really is a gorgeous piece of work.


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## lukachuki

Come on TSC lets see your oven posted....That should give this thread some cyber momentum.


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## griz

stonecutter said:


> ...* moved*....



Dam, that had to hurt, but what a selling point...:thumbup:

Building another one?

You guys put the pizza on a stone when you cook in a wood fired oven?


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## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> No need to do that, build the fire in the oven, the oven itself provides the draw.
> 
> I bet you hated to walk away from that, it really is a gorgeous piece of work.


I know..its just a little habit I had, plus my son liked to see the fire start. The smoke stains add character!

Yes and no. The finishes where a lot different than planned originally but we were very pleased regardless. I am actually building an oven for my parents to... so now I get to do two new designs.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

griz said:


> Dam, that had to hurt, but what a selling point...:thumbup:
> 
> Building another one?
> 
> You guys put the pizza on a stone when you cook in a wood fired oven?


No Griz, the floor IS the stone. Just brush the ashes back and slide the pie right on the floor.


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## Tscarborough

Here is my build, I built my oven because I wanted to build a timbrel arch. It just ended up being a pizza oven, all of the materials other than the grill were stuff I accumulated over the years. Some of the brick had been "creatively stored" in my yard for 10+ years. Note that I am not a mason, the first full size brick I ever laid is the one on the base. I have also finished the concrete countertops, but not the pergola.

http://brokebrick.com/outdoorkitchen.htm


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## stonecutter

I would have guessed somewhere out west if I saw that oven randomly.

It doesnt matter that you never laid a brick before..that work shames a lot of guys that have..great job with all the different colors too.

Hey, post a link to your pizza page too.


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## griz

Tscarborough said:


> Here is my build, I built my oven because I wanted to build a timbrel arch. It just ended up being a pizza oven, all of the materials other than the grill were stuff I accumulated over the years. Some of the brick had been "creatively stored" in my yard for 10+ years. Note that I am not a mason, the first full size brick I ever laid is the one on the base. I have also finished the concrete countertops, but not the pergola.
> 
> http://brokebrick.com/outdoorkitchen.htm


That is awesome....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

stonecutter said:


> Hey, post a link to your pizza page too.



I'll do it for him! 
http://brokebrick.com/pizzaanarchy.htm


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## sheetrock_22

There will be some envy today when I make some pizzas in the house oven for today's football games.


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## stonecutter

sheetrock_22 said:


> There will be some envy today when I make some pizzas in the house oven for today's football games.


lets see some pictures...:thumbsup:


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## Tscarborough

I have been working on Detroit style, here is test #2 from last night, I have 2 more doughs to cook today (In the kitchen oven).


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## lukachuki

man that looks sooooooooooooooo good....I'm debating ordering some cardboard for the football games...but sheesh there is no comparison.


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## stonecutter

Tscar, do you use a stoneware or SS pan for that style? I like the looks of yours, the crust doesnt look really thick. Sometimes pan pizza is so overly bready it makes me feel like I should have just got a grinder(hogie,hero,sub..whatever you call it)


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## Tscarborough

I use a cheapo brownie pan, liberally greased with Crisco. The crust is about an inch and a half deep on the edges, less in the center. Here is one I just took out of the oven (test pie #3).


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## MAULEMALL

Tscarborough said:


> I use a cheapo brownie pan, liberally greased with Crisco. The crust is about an inch and a half deep on the edges, less in the center. Here is one I just took out of the oven (test pie #3).


Man that looks good...


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## CJKarl

Tscarborough said:


> That is a lovely oven, BUT I see smoke stains on the face. What size flue did you use?



Mine is getting a fine black patina as well. When the fire is roaring I sometimes have flames licking at the lintel. No flue out there is going to stop that.


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## Fundi

It seems to me all masons have a pizza oven or are going to build a pizza oven in their back yard. 

So why is this off-topic? Move it back to Masonry where it belongs.
:whistling


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## stonecutter

Fundi said:


> It seems to me all masons have a pizza oven or are going to build a pizza oven in their back yard.
> 
> So why is this off-topic? Move it back to Masonry where it belongs.
> :whistling


Fundi, I put it here because in addition to the actual oven build pictures, (I hope)there will be recipes, favorite pizza places and other non-masonry related stuff. The main focus is what you can make in it. I'm sure that when other ovens will get built they will be showing up both here and in masonry.....I probably have everyone sick of looking at my old oven by now. Plus, I don't have the ability to move this thread even if I wanted too.:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

I was a skeptic at first, but I have come around. I for one didn't want to see the thread moved out of the masonry section, mostly because i rarely go anywhere else on the CT site. The simple solution was that I just subscribed to it which makes it simple to keep an eye on. As soon as someone lays down some wisdom in a post I get an email, and so I boogey over here asap to soak it all in. It's pretty neat.

There is a lot of interest in black ovens among all walks of life, and I bet this thread will keep lurching along for a long time. Soon the google search engine will start alerting everyone all over the world that this thread exists. Stonecutter, TSC and Cjk are about to become intergalactic pizza oven super heroes. 

CT threads always seem be near the top of Google searches. I still get people calling me to apply for a job that I posted like 3 or 4 years ago.


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## Tscarborough

My co-workers already haze me about my "fan club", the people that call with questions about ovens every day, and there are a lot more of them now than it used to be (it used to be fireplaces), but I think that is just because more people are building ovens now.


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## Inner10

> My co-workers already haze me about my "fan club", the people that call with questions about ovens every day, and there are a lot more of them now than it used to be (it used to be fireplaces), but I think that is just because more people are building ovens now.


Do you run a brickyard?


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## Tscarborough

We are a full line masonry supply house, not just brick.


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## Resta

I'm h-u-n-g-r-y ... 
Now I feel like in torture chamber....


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## Tscarborough

Let me torture you some more, these are all 90 second pizzas:


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## Tinstaafl

stonecutter said:


> Plus, I don't have the ability to move this thread even if I wanted too.:thumbsup:


I was glad to see you put it here because some folks never visit the Masonry section. :thumbsup:

There's no rule saying you can't post there with a link to this thread... :thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

I like the idea that heat, makes a pizza much more than the sum of its parts. There is a deep thought or two buried somewhere in there.


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## Tscarborough

Here are my thoughts on it:

First, pizza don't care what makes the heat.
Second, pizza don't care what temperature it is cooked at.
Third, both of the above are only true in general.

To make a particular type of pizza, what makes the heat and what temp it is matter a lot. Here is a rough guide:

Neapolitan pizza, 60-120 seconds, 800+ degrees, wood.
New York/Neapolitan,New Haven, 3-4 minutes, 700-800, wood or coal
Commercial pizza (Dominoes, Mr Gattis, etc) and NY slice, 6-8 minutes, 550-650, conveyor or deck oven.
Kitchen pizza, 8-10 minutes, 450-550, gas or electric.


You can use stones/steel plate to kick the kitchen oven into the 600-700 range, and by modifying your oven you can get higher than that, and you may not even burn your house down.


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## stonecutter

Just after I fabricated my soapstone counters I had a few scraps that I cut down to 14"x14". I used these as pizza stone and they worked awesome.. They hold the heat for a long time once the oven turns off too. The stone produced helped produce a nice crust..


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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> I was a skeptic at first, but I have come around. I for one didn't want to see the thread moved out of the masonry section, mostly because i rarely go anywhere else on the CT site. The simple solution was that I just subscribed to it which makes it simple to keep an eye on. As soon as someone lays down some wisdom in a post I get an email, and so I boogey over here asap to soak it all in. It's pretty neat.
> 
> There is a lot of interest in black ovens among all walks of life, and I bet this thread will keep lurching along for a long time. Soon the google search engine will start alerting everyone all over the world that this thread exists. Stonecutter, TSC and Cjk are about to become intergalactic pizza oven super heroes.
> 
> CT threads always seem be near the top of Google searches. I still get people calling me to apply for a job that I posted like 3 or 4 years ago.


I hope everyone that appreciates wood fired cooking jumps in...:thumbsup:


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## chris klee

Tscarborough said:


> and you may not even burn your house down.


nice.

this thread made me hungry. my wife and i got a pizza stone for a wedding gift and i dont think we ever used it. i may have to look into making some home made pizzas on it now.


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## stonecutter

I gotta put this up....

Connecticut is home to arguably some of the finest thin crust pizza joints in the states. Here is one of the most well known...Pepe's

It is normal to see a line down the street to get in and well-to-dos FLY to CT for the white calm pie...one of the most popular.

We took our son Mason there before a trip to a museum which was around the corner. So, we got a White Clam and a Neo (my fav) Heres a few pics.


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## stonecutter

White Clam..No moz. Just parmesan, clams,lemon juice, lots of garlic. You will stink after you eat this..totally worth it!


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## Tscarborough

Pepe's is legendary and is coal fired New Haven pizza at it's best.


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## stonecutter

The Neopolitan ( pepes "tomato pie"). Simple and perfect.






















Pepes uses coal as fuel for the oven..high heat and lots of flavor. Check them out if you are ever in CT. The original is in New Haven..this is where we were that day. There are 3 locations now..we tried the others and its the same.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> Pepe's is legendary and is coal fired New Haven pizza at it's best.


YUUUUUPP!!!:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

It sucks living in the south. Our pizza tradition consists of Pizza Hut and Papa Johns whose claim to fame is that they use "better" ingredients.


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## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> White Clam..No moz. Just parmesan, clams,lemon juice, lots of garlic. You will stink after you eat this..totally worth it!
> 
> <img src="http://www.contractortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64093"/>
> 
> <img src="http://www.contractortalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64094"/>


Coming from a half Italian family cheese and seafood is kinda sacrilegious. 

That neapolitan pizza looks good, margaritas and marinaras are my style through and through.


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## stonecutter

Inner10 said:


> Coming from a half Italian family cheese and seafood is kinda sacrilegious.


I am too...from Naples as it happens. 

The White Clam in the pic only has a little parm on it. They do offer one with moz but we like it this way.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> It sucks living in the south. Our pizza tradition consists of Pizza Hut and Papa Johns whose claim to fame is that they use "better" ingredients.


Waaaaaaaaaaaaay before I moved down here my family and I used to say you cant get a good pie south of Jersey. There are a few places I have heard about near Charleston that we plan to check out.

Hey, you could always take a drive up when I build mine too!


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## Tscarborough

When I have people over I cook all kinds of pizzas, but the one I get the most compliments on is the one shown twice above and below: cherry tomatoes, cheese, and either basil or cilantro over a basic tomato sauce, with some slivers of white onion if I have lost my mind. No matter what they request and I make for them, they always say they liked that one (filetti) the best.


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## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> When I have people over I cook all kinds of pizzas, but the one I get the most compliments on is the one shown twice above: cherry tomatoes, cheese, and either basil or cilantro over a basic tomato sauce, with some slivers of white onion. No matter what they request and I make for them, they always say they liked that one (filetti) the best.


Because you cant fake a great pie if it's kept simple.:thumbsup:


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## Inner10

I'd kill for a slice of that right now.


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## Resta

And how to sleep now??


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## Tscarborough

Don't get me wrong, I am the anti-pizza snob. I cook all types of pizza, and use the WFO and the oven often (like a couple hundred pizzas last year, wouldn't you like to be my neighbor), have been making pizza at home since I was about 12, and worked in family pizza joints and even Dominoes as I worked my way through high school and college.

I use the same basic dough recipe my grandmother taught me 30 years ago (she made bread, not pizza), adjusted for how much heat will be used to cook it, and how long I plan to let it ferment. Simple is the key to good pizza (good food for that matter), no matter if it is Neapolitan or Pappa johns.

Quality fresh ingredients, cooked appropriately to the style is the key.


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## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> Quality fresh ingredients, cooked appropriately to the style is the key.


Um..sorry to be the one to say, this is what makes a pizza snob. But embrace it, you are with like minded people!

:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

IMO, some reasons that pizza ovens are gaining popularity is that people are realizing the advantages of entertaining at home and the feeling of satisfation from making something delicious for family and friends...and there is fire. Anyone that has cooked in a wood burning oven or even a campfire will tell you the food just seems to taste better.


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## Tscarborough

No, a pizza snob says that you have to, for example, use only Italian tomatoes picked by virgins under a full moon in the South of Italy. I value fresh and local over traditional and expensive.

The way I look at it, the traditional used what was relatively cheap and thus fresh and local, and Snobs demand those same ingredients, even though they are neither fresh nor cheap.


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## chris klee

stonecutter said:


> IMO, some reasons that pizza ovens are gaining popularity is that people are realizing the advantages of entertaining at home and the feeling of satisfation from making something delicious for family and friends...and there is fire. Anyone that has cooked in a wood burning oven or even a campfire will tell you the food just seems to taste better.


best part of camping is cooking with a fire. it does always seem to taste better.


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## Tscarborough

Other than wanting to build an arch using timbrel construction, I was motivated to quit spending 30 bucks a week on Friday night (crap) pizzas for my teenage kids.

My cost for a Carnivore Crunch (fresh Italian sausage, pepperoni (Good pepperoni), ham and bacon) along with good mozzarella plus dough and sauce, is about 4 bucks a pizza for a 16". That is a 15 dollar pie out here in the sticks and probably 25 for you guys in the NE.


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## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> No, a pizza snob says that you have to, for example, use only Italian tomatoes picked by virgins under a full moon in the South of Italy.


Too funny...ok ok. True, pizza was born of left overs...whatever was there is what went on the pie. 


I mean snobbish in terms of quality anyway.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> That is a 15 dollar pie out here in the sticks and probably 25 for you guys in the NE.


Pretty close.

Whats great about being down here in SC even though its a pizza black hole, is the fact that I am an agricultural area and only an hour from Charleston. We have a many farmers markets that we get great produce and seafood. 

Last year a friend (who has permission) took me to a huge field behind his house that rotates several crops throughout the year. I picked 2.5- 5gallon pails with beautiful roma tomatos and my wife canned 15 quarts (I think)of sauce. Score!!

Hopefully, I'll have my oven ready for this years harvest.


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## Tscarborough

Not even that, I love Totinos pizza. I am the anti-snob, thus Pizza Anarchy.


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## stonecutter

Looking good.:thumbsup: 

This week I am researching a source for clay for the earth oven dome because I can build one of those pretty fast. I am still designing my brick oven.

Luki, know anyone down here that sells clay? There is a pottery place I am going to contact this week.


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## Joasis

I see the stone yards around here all have the cast domes now in stock. Haven't priced one, but it would be a shortcut...and then, I suppose, you could as time allowed, build the cast dome into a masonry unit. 

I moved my mixer into the garage last night, to start working on getting the Briggs&Stratton to run again, after it has probably sat for 4 years or more, but I did make pizza in the oven in the kitchen yesterday...using a pizza stone.


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## stonecutter

joasis said:


> I see the stone yards around here all have the cast domes now in stock. Haven't priced one, but it would be a shortcut...and then, I suppose, you could as time allowed, build the cast dome into a masonry unit.
> 
> I moved my mixer into the garage last night, to start working on getting the Briggs&Stratton to run again, after it has probably sat for 4 years or more, but I did make pizza in the oven in the kitchen yesterday...using a pizza stone.


Yeah they save time are are pricey. The oven about was my first and I used a pre-cast. If I remember, after shipping with the insulation blanket and metal vent it was around $3500-$3800. Here it is all wrapped up in the structure....












You can definately make your own out of brick. Lots of people with no masonry skills are building DIY ovens using plans from Forno Bravo (dome style) or you can do a barrel vault which is easier and just as functional.


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## Joasis

One of the masons who works for me didn't even use fire brick to build his oven, reasoning that he had the old antique clay brick, and they were fired once, and so what if they cracked? 

He didn't use the blanket to insulate the dome either, just built a box from brick and filled it with mason's sand. He did use fireclay to base his mortar, but said if he hadn't used it, he still thinks the dome would have held shape.

He has no money in his pizza oven.


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## stonecutter

joasis said:


> One of the masons who works for me didn't even use fore brick to build his oven, reasoning that he had the old antique clay brick, and they were fired once, and so what if they cracked?
> 
> He didn't use the blanket to insulate the dome either, just built a box from brick and filled it with mason's sand. He did use fireclay to base his mortar, but said if he hadn't used it, he still thinks the dome would have held shape.
> 
> He has no money in his pizza oven.


On the oven I built for my home (1st post) I used 5" loose vermiculite surrounding the dome for my insulation.....pretty cheap. Sand isnt the greatest insulator but it works.

As for using antique clay brick, they work but they probably last long because they arent made for this type of thermal cycling.

...but if its cheap and he doesnt care then so what, right?:thumbsup:


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## Joasis

I noticed on you tube, one of the oven build videos shows a guy mounding up sand to form the dome and create the support for the brick.


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## stonecutter

joasis said:


> I noticed on you tube, one of the oven build videos shows a guy mounding up sand to form the dome and create the support for the brick.


Yup, thats one way. Some guys even use one of those exercise balls too. I did most of mine without a form so I could check the neatness of the work...totally has nothing to do with performance, just my masonry ocd.

When I build the earth oven I will use a sand form and cover it with damp newspaper.:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

stonecutter said:


> Luki, know anyone down here that sells clay? There is a pottery place I am going to contact this week.


Not really. 

Just cross the Savannah River and take a shovel....GA is nothing but clay it seems.

This is an earth oven...shouldn't have to go paying big bucks for materials. Feel the heartbeat of 1000's of generations of broke people before you who built these things cause they had to.


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## stonecutter

Made some dough today and used two recipes from this book from Peter Reinhart. Great read and recipes..recommended reading for pizza heads.











I made the Neo-Neopolitan and the DOC Napoletana Dough. We are just using ingredients that we have here no special shopping trips today.


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## stonecutter

lukachuki said:


> Not really.
> 
> Just cross the Savannah River and take a shovel....GA is nothing but clay it seems.
> 
> This is an earth oven...shouldn't have to go paying big bucks for materials. Feel the heartbeat of 1000's of generations of broke people before you who built these things cause they had to.


Too far there luki. There is plenty of clay dirt around here but I need to test the content before I slap one of these together...thats why I may just get pure clay and sand to make my own...we'll see.

Big bucks? I dont think it will cost me more than $50 for the whole thing! I have just about everything here already.


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## jomama

joasis said:


> One of the masons who works for me didn't even use fire brick to build his oven, reasoning that he had the old antique clay brick, and they were fired once, and so what if they cracked?
> 
> He didn't use the blanket to insulate the dome either, just built a box from brick and filled it with mason's sand. He did use fireclay to base his mortar, but said if he hadn't used it, he still thinks the dome would have held shape.
> 
> He has no money in his pizza oven.


joasis,

This is probably the easiest/cheapest/fastest way I can think of to build one. Of course, there may be better ways, cheaper ways, and faster ways, but this is the best of all worlds IMO. 

http://rumford.com/oven/oven24.html

Just note that it will limit you to a 15" wide opening using this kit. Also, don't bother buying their insulating castable, you can make your own for a fraction of the cost.......:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

Thats pretty cool Jomama.:thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

stonecutter said:


> We are just using ingredients that we have here no special shopping trips today.



I lied. Running out to get some special stuff.:laughing:


Got 2 bulbs of garlic roasted and the bacon is done!:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki

jomama said:


> joasis,
> 
> This is probably the easiest/cheapest/fastest way I can think of to build one. Of course, there may be better ways, cheaper ways, and faster ways, but this is the best of all worlds IMO.
> 
> http://rumford.com/oven/oven24.html
> 
> Just note that it will limit you to a 15" wide opening using this kit. Also, don't bother buying their insulating castable, you can make your own for a fraction of the cost.......:thumbsup:


How much are these components aproximately? And whats the recipe for the insulating castable if you don't mind?


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## lukachuki

stonecutter said:


> Too far there luki. There is plenty of clay dirt around here but I need to test the content before I slap one of these together...thats why I may just get pure clay and sand to make my own...we'll see.
> 
> Big bucks? I dont think it will cost me more than $50 for the whole thing! I have just about everything here already.


Nice. Can't wait to see the steps involved.


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## jomama

lukachuki said:


> How much are these components aproximately? And whats the recipe for the insulating castable if you don't mind?


All I have close at hand is a price list from a local supplier from '06, but the 15" entrance tunnel is $166 and the 24" dia. dome that goes with it is $280. Obviously, you know what the firebrick cost.........

As for the insulating castable, it's nothing more than fine perlite and portland cement. Somewhere between 6:1 to 12:1. IIRC, Tscar has done some tests & I want to say he found 8:1 to perform the best. I actually "cheated" by using a little Type M when I made my last batch, and to be honest, with the ommision of the "bleed water", it seemed to be the strongest I toyed with.

BTW, the same price sheet shows a 50# bag of castable for $82........


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## Tscarborough

No, the perlite at 6 or 8 to one is not an castable refractory, it is a castable/trowel grade insulation. Making a decent castable refractory is quite a bit different and not cheap. It is worth it to pay the big bucks for the premix if you want to cast a refractory appliance.

That said, I am not a fan of the Superior or the Rumford kits. They are expensive and offer no advantage other than quick assembly. Forno Bravo and a good 1/2 dozen other makers offer competitive cast engines.


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## Joasis

Being in oil field country, we have access to all kinds of vessel heads, like 48 inch diameter tank ends (domes), and smaller pipes that could be cut to create the tunnel. Sure wouldn't crack, and it could be insulated and bricked into a masonry unit......so why would a steel insert with 1/2 inch wall thickness not work? Firebrick base....steel on top.

I could easily duplicate the unit in post 96 in steel.


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## stonecutter

I was really happy with both dough recipes, though the DOC Napoletana was a little more crunchy. Had Mom & Dad over so we wanted to try a lttle of a lot. Most of the pies were 8"-10" two were
14". We made 8 pizzas.....Kept them pretty simple for the little guy with a couple funky ones for us big folks.


The red sauce is: 
cento san marzano crushed tomatos,oregono, redwine vinegar,lemon juice,black pepper,dried oregano, garlic powder and salt to taste. Store had no fresh basil and we were out...


Sausage & red onion, shredded part skim motz(what the store had), parmesan.









Bacon,red onion, buffalo motz and some spinich leaves for color...they were pretty good on there.









Sausage,red onion,lots of pepperoncini peppers,roasted garlic, buffalo motz.









Same ingredients except garlic, different pie, better picture.


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## jomama

Tscarborough said:


> No, the perlite at 6 or 8 to one is not an *castable refractory*, it is a castable/trowel grade insulation.
> 
> Ummm, you're the one who used the term "refactory", not me.........
> 
> Making a decent castable refractory is quite a bit different and not cheap. It is worth it to pay the big bucks for the premix if you want to cast a refractory appliance.
> 
> You don't need anything other than a simple insulating castable for the Rumford/Buckley kits....
> 
> That said, I am not a fan of the Superior or the Rumford kits. They are expensive and offer no advantage other than quick assembly. Forno Bravo and a good 1/2 dozen other makers offer competitive cast engines.


I already put the prices out there for the Rumford 24" kit. Add to that the ~$100 for the firebrick, maybe $75 for the refractory, and a 50# bag of Heat-Stop, and you're only in the $700 range. What kit is cheaper for the guts, w/o twice the amount of work involved in building it?

You also have to remember, to alot of the folks here, time is money. Even though building one at home may be a hobby to some, building one from scratch for a customer isn't always the most efficient option.


----------



## stonecutter

I am in the process of starting my next Wood Fired Oven (wfo)..finally. This is going to be very,very different than all the other ones I have done before because the dome is going to be made of clay earth. 

The idea came from me wanting to use my stock pile of miscellaneous stone and reclaimed brick. The base is going to be the real challenge here...it will be a load bearing ribbed cross vault made of brick and stone. The goals I have are to do this as cheap as possible, use what I have laying around and do stuff I have never done before...like building the ribbed cross vault and using clay earth for my oven. Oh yeah and try to make the whole mess look good.:thumbsup:

I will post some progress shots here once I have something started. Right now I'm just cleaning brick and doing layout.....cutting some stone is next.The foot print - 4.5' x 4.5'. The planned oven diameter (interior) is 30". I am documenting the whole process on my blog if anyone is interested in all the minutia.:laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

Finally...I have this project underway. Right now I'm working on the brick vault and after that the dry stone surround. Details on the blog but I'll have pictures up on this thread when I drop the form. Can't wait to get this one done so I can start making pizza!


----------



## drystoneoven

Hell yeah! It's a great feeling to attack the centerpiece of a project like that.


----------



## stonecutter

drystoneoven said:


> Hell yeah! It's a great feeling to attack the centerpiece of a project like that.


How are things with the your oven? The bread looked great BTW!


----------



## drystoneoven

Things are coming very slowly, but surely. The first course after the hearth level is completed, and for the past week or so I've been working on gathering springer stones, cutting them to size and shaping them. Last night I shaped and laid one springer stone. 5 more to go for the oven vault. Then I'll need to create two more for the front arch. It's very slow going. But I'm baking sourdough bread every weekend so it's bearable. I'll post pics once I get all the springer stones on.


----------



## stonecutter

I finally got something done on the base,the Gothic arch vault . This was a couple of firsts for me...I have never built a Gothic arch vault and never built one with brick. Here are a few shots of it before and after I pointed the joints. All the brick are antique reclaims from Charleston,SC. I carved the granite keystones from scrap left over from a project in MA.


----------



## stonecutter

After pointing up the joints...

























I plan on making double doors out of reclaimed oak for the opening and I'll use the space underneath for oven tools and kindling wood.


The rebar is just a reference to where I am starting the drystone surround, which will stop at the height of the hearth floor. I'm starting on that tomorrow.


----------



## Tscarborough

It is a beautiful arch. I would leave it just like it is and start over though. The granite will not take the heat and the thermal dynamics of a Gothic arch do not lend themselves to an oven.

edit-plus you probably want to insulate under it, and build it up off the ground.


----------



## Tscarborough

Nevermind, I see what you have working there. I can't wait to see the finished product.


----------



## CJKarl

This thing is going to be epic.


----------



## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> Nevermind, I see what you have working there. I can't wait to see the finished product.


T, when I read that first response I almost laughed coffee through my nose! You must have thought I was a noob!:laughing:

Yeah, it's a little hard to visualize at first. The rebar staked out represents the outside of the drystone surround. I'll build that up above the keystone and stop at the finished height of the floor. It will create the sink for the insulation under the floor.

I don't know if you guys caught this but the plan is to build this dome out of clay earth. The oven opening and floor will be firebrick though and I plan on carving a solid granite door foor the outside arch opening. But I'll fire the oven and test it before I finish it in case it's a colossal failure!


----------



## drystoneoven

Tscarborough said:


> It is a beautiful arch. I would leave it just like it is and start over though. The granite will not take the heat and the thermal dynamics of a Gothic arch do not lend themselves to an oven.
> 
> edit-plus you probably want to insulate under it, and build it up off the ground.


Look at more than the pictures. 

Great job dude. Awesome keystones!


----------



## tgeb

I want to wake this thread up a little.

I am in the planning stage and have plotted out a template for the oven arch. I will probably build a barrel oven as opposed to a dome for reasons stated on other posts.

Here is a rough template of the arch and the opening. I'd like to get some feedback prior to construction. What do you guys think of the profile.
These will be "inside" dimensions. the smaller arch will be the opening.
I am thinking to make the oven 32" deep.

Some days I look at the sketch and think it is too large, other days I look at it and think it is too small.....


----------



## dom-mas

Not experienced yet but when I was doing my drawings everyone I talked to said that an oven less than 30" wide isn't really worth doing. I don't know how 2" would make a huge difference but that's what everyone said. I'm going to do a barrel as well. 30"x36". I would also make the spring point for the arch at 4.5" so you can use a full firebrick.


----------



## Tscarborough

Mine is 22" wide. That allows me 6" for fire and 16" pizzas, which is 2 or 4" bigger than most make. That said, I would consider 30" to be an adequate minimum.

Also with a 14" inner height, you may consider going to 8.5" door height.


----------



## stonecutter

tgeb said:


> I want to wake this thread up a little.
> 
> I am in the planning stage and have plotted out a template for the oven arch. I will probably build a barrel oven as opposed to a dome for reasons stated on other posts.
> 
> Here is a rough template of the arch and the opening. I'd like to get some feedback prior to construction. What do you guys think of the profile.
> These will be "inside" dimensions. the smaller arch will be the opening.
> I am thinking to make the oven 32" deep.
> 
> Some days I look at the sketch and think it is too large, other days I look at it and think it is too small.....


I missed these recent posts. tgeb, I was curious as to what reasons you are going with a barrel vault. Not that I think its a bad idea...just wondering.

I also feel 28" is a bit small for an inside area.

My oven build is really dragging. I have had hardly anytime on it and I tore the stonework down twice. I'll update the thread when I have something to show. In the meantime, I hope you keep us updated with your build.


----------



## dom-mas

I dug out for my footing yesterday. 1.75yds of concrete to be poured this coming weekend I hope. Oh yeah and I'll throw an old bicycle or 2 in for good measure


----------



## tgeb

stonecutter said:


> I missed these recent posts. tgeb, I was curious as to what reasons you are going with a barrel vault. Not that I think its a bad idea...just wondering.
> 
> I also feel 28" is a bit small for an inside area.
> 
> My oven build is really dragging. I have had hardly anytime on it and I tore the stonework down twice. I'll update the thread when I have something to show. In the meantime, I hope you keep us updated with your build.


Thanks for the input stonecutter. I have been watching your blog.... 

The barrel vault appears to be the easier build for a novice like me, with, from what I have read, little difference on performance. I'm game for any type. 
I have looked at the neo design, some say that is better...I don't know. It does appear to be a more difficult build.

I am open to all advice. I have laid a few bricks in the past, but mostly for manhole construction. 




dom-as said:


> Oh yeah and I'll throw an old bicycle or 2 in for good measure


Good use of old bikes! :thumbsup:


----------



## dom-mas

To me the major disadvantage of a dome vault isn't in the building per se but in the cutting of the bricks. SO MUCH CUTTING. a barrel vault has little cutting and I HATE CUTTING. 

As for the bicycles I'll just say that it's a long story, but I agree...what better use for old bicycles?


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> To me the major disadvantage of a dome vault isn't in the building per se but in the cutting of the bricks. SO MUCH CUTTING. a barrel vault has little cutting and I HATE CUTTING.
> 
> As for the bicycles I'll just say that it's a long story, but I agree...what better use for old bicycles?


Bahh...not a disadvantage if you want a dome. Old bicycles make lousy pizza peels so I think you are on the right track Sean!:laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

tgeb said:


> Thanks for the input stonecutter. I have been watching your blog....
> 
> The barrel vault appears to be the easier build for a novice like me, with, from what I have read, little difference on performance. I'm game for any type.
> I have looked at the neo design, some say that is better...I don't know. It does appear to be a more difficult build.
> 
> I am open to all advice. I have laid a few bricks in the past, but mostly for manhole construction.


I believe the dome has better Thermodynamics as far as heat rolling around inside during firing. However, I think any advantage is so minimal it's not worth the extra effort of layout and cutting if you don't care what the oven looks like and a barrel vault is just as capable and efficient. 

The biggest thing is DON'T overlook insulation. This is the real key to a great pizza oven! 

I'm overdue for a blog post but I have not been able to get even one good day in on the stonework. I am about where I was before I tore it down the second time as of now....and since it's dry stone supporting the slab and oven I am being very careful to keep the backfill super tight. I can't wait to get to the oven though, I have ideas for the finishes that I think you guys will like.


----------



## stonecutter

Side point and this is a bit of a spoiler if you follow the blog, but I am not building this oven out of clay earth anymore. I plan on building a Neapolitan dome with white fire brick instead..this is my third Neo. Herringbone floor too. Details on the blog soon!


----------



## stonecutter

After many delays, I finally finished the drystone base for the wood oven. Here are a few pictures....on to the slab work!


----------



## stonecutter




----------



## stonecutter

Latest pics...
Insulation slab...over structural slab.








Herringbone floor








Soldier course layout








Mortared in, oven opening formed up








Springer course and opening arch dry fit.


----------



## stonecutter

The cast pieces in the pictures wont be used...they were experimental.


----------



## Fundi

What is in the insulation slab?

which cast pieces? i only see bricks


----------



## stonecutter

First and second pics there are some on the sides of the slab.

Insulation is perlite and cement mixed at 6:1...it is vital to add some kind of insulation underneath the floor.


----------



## Tscarborough

The thing about a pizza oven is that it is an oven. It is not only pizza, I cooked them last night and cooked a 5 hour brisket and beans today.

1. A pepperoni pizza for my daughter to take to work (she works at a local pizza chain, I cooked it to 80% and told her to run it through their conveyer oven).

2. The next 2 were my neighbors creations, shredded chicken, hamburger, pepperoni, mushrooms and a healthy(!?) dose of olive oil infused with the chicken, rosemary and garlic. I have to admit it was pretty damn good.

3. My pizza, Shrimp, serranos, and scallions.

4. 5 hour brisket, 2 hour beans.

5. I waved the knife over it and it fell into slices.


----------



## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> View attachment 87199
> 
> 
> View attachment 87200
> 
> 
> View attachment 87201


That just re-defined bada$$...:thumbup:

Unreal


----------



## stonecutter

Thanks Inner. I kind of forgot about this thread...it wasn't getting much by way of input. 

I have made some progress since the last pics...I'll put some up soon.


----------



## stonecutter

That brisket looks great T, can't wait to start mine up.


----------



## dom-mas

No interest cause no more pix!!! Love the wood fired thread. I've got my pad poured, now I just need to get all my other projects to 90% so i can loose interest in them and start a new one


----------



## stonecutter

Worked on my granite outer arch today. Almost there...


----------



## dom-mas

Nice. Glad to see some progress Matt. Can you taste the melted cheese yet?


----------



## stonecutter

I will on July 6th..we are kicking off this oven right. IPA tasting with craft and home brew, about 8-12 different ones. I guess I'll be busy!


----------



## stonecutter

I am working on the framing tomorrow, so I can dry this thing in and insulate it. Once that's done, I can pick away at the stonework....but the oven will be fully functional.


----------



## dom-mas

yummmm, tasty beers and tasty food. Add in some good friends and you can't get much better than that


----------



## Tscarborough

That is freaking awesome on the outer arch.


----------



## stonecutter

Got the arch finished up today.


----------



## Inner10

**** son nice arch!:thumbup:


----------



## dom-mas

Dang brah. That's craftsmanship


----------



## stonecutter

Thanks fellas.


----------



## wnc viking

That is sweet . That will look real nice with a pizza coming out of it.


----------



## stonecutter

Another unexpected day at home so I got some more carving done...pedestal bases for the arch and roughed out the hearth.


----------



## wnc viking

That is a work of art


----------



## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> Another unexpected day at home so I got some more carving done...pedestal bases for the arch and roughed out the hearth.
> 
> View attachment 94686
> 
> 
> View attachment 94687
> 
> 
> View attachment 94688
> 
> 
> View attachment 94689
> 
> 
> View attachment 94690
> 
> 
> View attachment 94691


After you get it all said and done I'd be interested in a ball park figure for what you would charge a client for the whole enchilada.


----------



## stonecutter

Inner10 said:


> After you get it all said and done I'd be interested in a ball park figure for what you would charge a client for the whole enchilada.


More than a KIA Soul....or about three fiddy.:laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

Why Inner, you got one for me?


----------



## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> Why Inner, you got one for me?


I've had clients express interest while shooting the breeze and sucking back booze...far from a formal intensest though. The commute to this frozen wasteland would probably up the price a little. :laughing:

Thus far I've had a couple clients have them installed in their kitchens but they have been pre-cast units. I've installed av systems in 2 wfo pizza restaurants, one was a prebuilt the other was done by some guy from Toronto who exclusively builds them. 

I'd like one for my own house but it would have to be a real bargain basement builder's special. :laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

Price for these are pretty ambiguous...it really depends on the finishes. All this carving would up the cost, but it all comes down to what the client wants. In this case, he is a pain with all the custom work and design changes. If I had any money I would up-charge myself....my head hurts.






Seriously though, if you decide to build one at your house don't hesitate to email me any questions.


----------



## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> Price for these are pretty ambiguous...it really depends on the finishes. All this carving would up the cost, but it all comes down to what the client wants. In this case, he is a pain with all the custom work and design changes. If I had any money I would up-charge myself....my head hurts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously though, if you decide to build one at your house don't hesitate to email me any questions.


Unless the work involves a 110 punch, a keyboard or a corkscrew I don't do it. :laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

Corkscrew huh? I get the twist offs. You must be buying good wine...things just got more expensive for you pal.:thumbsup:


----------



## dom-mas

Inner10 said:


> I've had clients express interest while shooting the breeze and sucking back booze...far from a formal intensest though. The commute to this frozen wasteland would probably up the price a little. :laughing:
> 
> Thus far I've had a couple clients have them installed in their kitchens but they have been pre-cast units. I've installed av systems in 2 wfo pizza restaurants, one was a prebuilt the other was done by some guy from Toronto who exclusively builds them.
> 
> I'd like one for my own house but it would have to be a real bargain basement builder's special. :laughing:


Inner, i've built a bread oven before and am in the early stages of building my own pizza oven. My intention is to build one for myself to iron out the kinks. By next year I hope to be offering them as a service. If anyone wants one before then though I'll kick start my own so I can figure out pricing

Keep it in mind anyway


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Inner, i've built a bread oven before and am in the early stages of building my own pizza oven. My intention is to build one for myself to iron out the kinks. By next year I hope to be offering them as a service. If anyone wants one before then though I'll kick start my own so I can figure out pricing
> 
> Keep it in mind anyway


Hey, don't poach potential clients on my thread..I'm just about to close the deal. :laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

Darn T-storms gave me the boot before I could completely finish all the pieces. But I got the hearth done, and then dry fitted it to check transitions.


----------



## wnc viking

How many hours do you have in the arch and hearth that is nice work


----------



## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> Hey, don't poach potential clients on my thread..I'm just about to close the deal. :laughing:


Tell you what, you land this one and I'll come give you a hand to git er dun. I'd even let you help me with mine


----------



## dom-mas

Oh, and I was going to add...You really are part Italian aren't you

What kind of granite is that?


----------



## stonecutter

Somebody on another forum asked me that..maybe I should have kept track. I can only guesstimate, I try not to worry about the time when I work at home. But I would say 10-12 hours on the arch, 4-6 for the blocks (really..but they are dead nuts on all 6 planes) and around 8-10 for the hearth. I still have a couple hours honing and edging the blocks. Plus I am adding another detail that will take a few more hours...it...never...ends.


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Tell you what, you land this one and I'll come give you a hand to git er dun. I'd even let you help me with mine


That sounds great, I would love to collaborate with you. For that matter, there are a few other masons on here that we could invite to the project.

Should we throw an old bicycle into the slab pour? :laughing:


----------



## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> That sounds great, I would love to collaborate with you. For that matter, there are a few other masons on here that we could invite to the project.
> 
> Should we throw and old bicycle into the slab pour? :laughing:


Not if Fundi is around. He loves bikes almost or more than he loves brick arches


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Not if Fundi is around. He loves bikes almost or more than he loves brick arches


O.K. make it a scooter. No real mason would ride one of those things.


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Oh, and I was going to add...You really are part Italian aren't you
> 
> What kind of granite is that?


Yes I am....http://www.contractortalk.com/f22/la-mia-famiglia-113044/

But, my Dad is French Canadian, and I hear there are some decent stonemasons up there too. :laughing:

The granite either came from western MA or Georgia...I'm not sure exactly. Very homogenous and hard, and that's why it is used for curbing and parapet walls on bridges in New England. It's rough on the carbide chisels and diamond blades/wheels for sure.


----------



## wnc viking

That works did not figure you would have it down to minute. I know with me when I get into a project I loose track of time


----------



## Inner10

dom-mas said:


> Inner, i've built a bread oven before and am in the early stages of building my own pizza oven. My intention is to build one for myself to iron out the kinks. By next year I hope to be offering them as a service. If anyone wants one before then though I'll kick start my own so I can figure out pricing
> 
> Keep it in mind anyway


I'll drop ya a line if things come to fruition. How far outside the city are you I recently had a contractor trying to find a new mason and I'l drop your number if you're interested.


----------



## dom-mas

Yeah absolutely. I'm in Almonte, but do 1/2 my work in the city. I try not to go East of the canal but I will for the right job. I'm always looking to do work for _good_ Gc's


----------



## Inner10

dom-mas said:


> Yeah absolutely. I'm in Almonte, but do 1/2 my work in the city. I try not to go East of the canal but I will for the right job. I'm always looking to do work for _good_ Gc's


Brilliant, 90% of my work is Rockliffe park and Westboro.


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Yeah absolutely. I'm in Almonte, but do 1/2 my work in the city. I try not to go East of the canal but I will for the right job. I'm always looking to do work for _good_ Gc's


I guess I'll pass on this one Dom, its a 2050 mile round trip.


----------



## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> I guess I'll pass on this one Dom, its a 2050 mile round trip.


And you'd bail once you see the price of beer in Ontario. :laughing:


----------



## dom-mas

I definitely work in Westboro, I'm there often enough, and for the right job I would go to Rockliffe for sure, I have before


----------



## stonecutter

Inner10 said:


> And you'd bail once you see the price of beer in Ontario. :laughing:


That's O.K....we just stop in New Hampshire at the duty free place, buy cheap swill like Schafer or Pabst, then trade it for Laurentide or O'Keefe. 

Wait...maybe that's considered cheap swill in Canada. Oh well.


----------



## dom-mas

Laurantide and O'Keefe? It's been a while since you've been here huh?


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Laurantide and O'Keefe? It's been a while since you've been here huh?


Yup...1992 was the last time. Well I was in New Brunswick in 1999 but I don't think of that as Canada.:laughing:


----------



## dom-mas

yeah, I think I saw O'keefe for sale back in '96, but that's about it. Laurentide may still be around since the rumour was that it was Molson Canadian rebottled for the seperatists in Quebec


----------



## Fundi

Stonecutter, I can't believe you are going to walk away from this oven when you move.


----------



## stonecutter

Yep....but I know I can build another. No biggie.

Speaking of which, I'll need to do the ribbed cross vault base I originally wanted to do here.


----------



## Tscarborough

We have some of the premier oven builders on this site, although I know of one locally who is not a member, but a couple of weekends ago, we had a gathering of some very talented home and commercial pizza cooks in Houston. There were people from the East coast, West coast, and 4 or 5 states in between as well as most of the major cities in Texas. It was the second time we have met up, it was called the Texas Pizza summit II, and the pizza and company were outstanding.

I think we made and ate upwards of 40 pizzas over 2 days, and killed a large amount of wine, local beers, and various liquors. We hand pulled the cheese, people brought their own doughs, and we just kind of nerded out on pizza in a guys garage with a commercial Acunto oven at our disposal. Check out the 36.7 second perfectly cooked Margarita. My pies were done Sunday morning for breakfast (At the end of the slideshow), just a couple of 16" and a couple that I boxed for my brother whom I spent Sunday night with.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archiv...izza-summit-txcraig.html?ref=excerpt_readmore


----------



## stonecutter

Nice slideshow T..looks like a lot of fun. 37 second pizza is pretty impressive. If you use lower fat motz it would melt better in that kind of time frame.

I'm getting close to using mine. Fiddling around with the roof framing....once I get that sorted I can insulate it and start posting pizza pics instead of construction updates.


----------



## dom-mas

Nice looking Pies, Tscar. That mushroom pizza looked incredible. And "Diane"s crust looks super yummy. I was telling a customer about the oven I'm still planning on starting this summer and he said, "Sounds a lot like a Tandoori" That crust of Dianes looks a lot like naan. I wonder...


----------



## Tscarborough

Same thing, more or less. I have stuck naan to the wall in my oven, but it causes more pain than it is worth. 900 degrees is too hot to be inserting your arm into.


----------



## Tscarborough

It hasn't rained in months but since I fired the oven it decided to do so today. Screw it, I ain't afraid of getting wet.


----------



## Joasis

If I were in Austin, I would love to spend a few hours learning how you do your pizza...it would be worth whatever you demand as tribute.


----------



## dom-mas

Joasis said:


> If I were in Austin, I would love to spend a few hours learning how you do your pizza...it would be worth whatever you demand as tribute.


I bet a half decent bottle of wine, maybe a couple pints and some decent cheese or fresh herbs would gain you entrance


----------



## stonecutter

That's a rain day in Texas?

When it rains around here, I can't sit in between the raindrops to stay dry. :laughing:


----------



## Tscarborough

Anytime, everyone is welcome. I made a few, the rain never panned out. Of course they do not always go as planned, the first pic is of one that decided to ball up and burst into flame.


----------



## wnc viking

They look good bet they taste better


----------



## stonecutter

As usual, great looking pizza. I especially appreciated the very familiar accidental calzone shot. 

I have done a few of those...scraping the burning remnants off the floor is usually accented with the sounds of your pals busting a gut, watching you fling the charred mess into the bushes.


----------



## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> As usual, great looking pizza. I especially appreciated the very familiar accidental calzone shot.
> 
> I have done a few of those...scraping the burning remnants off the floor is usually accented with the sounds of your pals busting a gut, watching you fling the charred mess into the bushes.


Happens all to often...but at that point we are so drunk we eat the burnt wad.


----------



## maxwage

This thread is making me hungry!


----------



## Tscarborough

Today at about 7:30PM, I shot the oven with my gun at 130+ degrees. That is 5 days later with 6 inches of rain and about an 85 degree average ambient temperature. You can never have too much insulation.


----------



## tgeb

Looking at that....at first, I thought it read 1,320 degrees.....I was like...Damn, that's hot.


----------



## stonecutter

Finally got some pie out of this thing. Tomorrow we have about 13 coming over, and I wanted to shake the rust off. Just cheese for my boy and his friend....margherita for the wife and I.


----------



## griz

Dam that's nice....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Good looking pizza also...:thumbup:


----------



## Tscarborough

That looks great, you will be making some people very happy today.

My neighbor wanted to use the oven, so I fired it this morning. I had to have at least one pizza, so I made a Detroit style while it was cooling, then we loaded it up with a big chunk of dead cow(in the back) a couple of drunk chickens and some corn. Door on, check back in an hour for the corn, 3 for the chickens and 5 for the roast.


----------



## Tscarborough

Chickens and roast done, time for some mushrooms and japs.


----------



## Inner10

Tscarborough said:


> That looks great, you will be making some people very happy today.
> 
> My neighbor wanted to use the oven, so I fired it this morning. I had to have at least one pizza, so I made a Detroit style while it was cooling, then we loaded it up with a big chunk of dead cow(in the back) a couple of drunk chickens and some corn. Door on, check back in an hour for the corn, 3 for the chickens and 5 for the roast.


T you're a pizza god, love Detroit pizza. 

Hell for me pizza is like alcohol....I like it all.


----------



## Tscarborough

Sausage stuffed 'shrooms and japs.


----------



## stonecutter

Party went off well in spite of some pop up rain showers.

I think I'll follow your lead today, Tscar. We picked a bunch of Jalapenos from the garden recently, it's popper time.


----------



## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> Party went off well in spite of some pop up rain showers.
> 
> I think I'll follow your lead today, Tscar. We picked a bunch of Jalapenos from the garden recently, it's popper time.


Were you able to use your new bottle opener at the party also?


----------



## stonecutter

Thanks fellas. I just got home and it's friggin hot...I'm not sure I want to be on the roof until later, so I'm not sure I can get them installed. I can hide in the shade and make the last carved elements.....ridge caps. 

I haven't done the roof yet, because I am being tormented by thoughts of doing it with stone slabs. I still have all the bundles of shakes and materials in the shed, and as of now, I'm 99% sure that I will return them, get the refund and buy the stone for the roof.

I just think it will be more in line with my vision than cedar. We'll see.


----------



## wnc viking

What ever you do it will look great


----------



## stonecutter

Got the chimney supports, cap and crown done today! Pleased with the result.


----------



## dom-mas

Did you bed the supports? or use a glue? Or just gravity? I think any would be fine, I'm just curious.

hold on after looking at the pics again i see a bucket with some "stuff" and a trowel, is that a fresh coating on top of the chimney, supports bedded into that?


----------



## stonecutter

Just super thin bed mortar for the supports, maybe 3/16" on one of them, the rest are less than that. I just did it so they wouldn't move as I was troweling the crown.

The crown is new...white portland, a little lime, Acryl 60 and some Dry-Block admix.


----------



## bytor

stonecutter said:


> Got the chimney supports, cap and crown done today! Pleased with the result.


...as you should be.. Looks great!


----------



## stonecutter

Got the back veneer finished yesterday....


----------



## stonecutter

Sides done last week...that does it for the veneer. Onto the roof, but I won't get to it for a while.


----------



## dom-mas

Looking good


----------



## wnc viking

Are you going with stone on the roof


----------



## stonecutter

Yeah, I think I am. 

I really want to do the roof that way, I can't get it out of my head. I think the shakes would look good too, it's just not what I want to do. It will have to wait a few weeks, we are heading up to CT next week and I have no time before we go.


----------



## wnc viking

Take your time it will look great


----------



## stonecutter

Finished my permanent door finally. I milled down an oak 4x4 and square pegged all the holes. The ring is a hand forged 18th century hitch ring from an old barn. Tung oil finish on the wood and metal.


----------



## dom-mas

Man of many talents


----------



## Tinstaafl

That is flippin' nice. As the whole project is.

I haven't been commenting, but I can guarantee that I'm not the only fly on the wall avidly watching this develop. :thumbsup:


----------



## wnc viking

That is nice


----------



## tgeb

Awesome build!

Thanks for sharing all the progress pics.


----------



## Fundi

thanks for sharing the pics. again it inspiring project. Like the door. square peg detail really nails it down as perfection project.


----------



## stonecutter

Left over dough balls last night = two bonus pizzas today.

Sausage and Pepperoncini

















Beef Tenderloin, crumbled blue, and some motz over a port wine reduction.


----------



## drystoneoven

Very impressive.


----------



## brickhook

.....This thread has turned two years old, I have to say, I still enjoy going back, and looking through it. Stonecutter, great work friend, and thank you for sharing it with us. :thumbsup:


----------



## wnc viking

It has been a good one I have learned a lot. Thank you


----------



## dom-mas

I had forgotten about the oven door...Damn, I'd have used some decking screws...SC uses friggen square wood dowels...craftsman that's for sure


----------



## brickhook

We had pizza for dinner tonight ( Hunt's Pizza from the country conveince, of coarse ) and soon after, I had to run over here and dig up the pizza threads !


----------



## Joe Lucier

brickhook said:


> We had pizza for dinner tonight ( Hunt's Pizza from the country conveince, of coarse ) and soon after, I had to run over here and dig up the pizza threads !


Love pizza nothing beats pizza from #Windsor just saying


----------



## stonecutter

Joe Lucier said:


> Love pizza nothing beats pizza from #Windsor just saying


Windsor, Ontario? Maybe you should get out more. :laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

Thanks for the comments guys, glad you like the thread. 

I've been swamped, and I only have the roof and chimney flashing left. We are planning to relocate in 2-4 months so I need to wrap this up.


----------



## Joasis

I found a guy selling fire bricks for $50 a pallet, 360 on a pallet. Road trip this weekend.


----------



## shanekw1

Joasis said:


> I found a guy selling fire bricks for $50 a pallet, 360 on a pallet. Road trip this weekend.


Damn, I suppose shipping costs would negate any savings for me.


----------



## wnc viking

That will be to bad to leave that behind


----------



## Joasis

230 miles from me. I should have gone today, but maybe tomorrow. I might take 4 pallets of them....but why? 

In reality, it will cost me directly $200 in fuel and expenses.....to buy bricks at .13 cents each. So if it took 150 firebricks to build an oven, that would be $240. Or spend $300 and have 720 bricks. Enough for a firepit and other stuff, or for friends. Or $400 and have 1440.....wow.


----------



## stonecutter

You could build 4 or 5 ovens with that


----------



## TimelessQuality

How many would an average sized oven take?:shifty:

Medium sized outdoor fireplace?


----------



## dom-mas

I'd be buying him out and sitting on them. Around here firebricks are a good deal @ $1.50 a piece. Some places sell them for over $2 and others for close to $5...yes for 1 firebrick.


----------



## dom-mas

Where are you moving to SC? Back to CT? or New England at least?


----------



## stonecutter

TimelessQuality said:


> How many would an average sized oven take?:shifty:
> 
> Medium sized outdoor fireplace?


Around 250-275 for 34"-40"....give or take.


----------



## stonecutter

dom-mas said:


> Where are you moving to SC? Back to CT? or New England at least?


Western North Carolina...in the mountains. Beautiful up there, already have some bids in through a couple very good friends that are subs.


----------



## wnc viking

What part of wnc I live. Close to asheville


----------



## stonecutter

O.k. It been a while. I finally found some time to pick away at the cedar roof. A few hours today and no time till Tuesday, but I'm pretty happy with how it's coming out. It's not exactly stone, but I have no time for that finish....cedar is definitely faster.


----------



## stonecutter

Its only letting me do one at a time with my iPad. Here's a more sideways view...


----------



## stonecutter

Then the margarita...it was awesome.


----------



## stonecutter

One last pic from Varuni-Napoli.


----------



## Tscarborough

Those look very good. I like the way they do the basil both pre and post cooking.


----------



## Tscarborough

In Austin we are lucky to have 2 very good Neapolitan pizza joints, and I am friends with both owners (there is another but I have not tried it). I like them both equally, and they are very similar in their methods. I like the atmosphere of Bufalina a little better for dinner, but Pieous for lunch or with kids.

Their pizzas:
Pious's House on Fire and Bufalina's Napolitano. I only order Margarita at new places I try, if they can get that right, they are GTG.


----------



## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> Those look very good. I like the way they do the basil both pre and post cooking.


Picked up on that did ya? I loved it...there was a nice basil punch from the fresh leaves, and it's got me thinking about how to dress my margaritas in the near future.


----------



## stonecutter

Tscarborough said:


> In Austin we are lucky to have 2 very good Neapolitan pizza joints, and I am friends with both owners (there is another but I have not tried it). I like them both equally, and they are very similar in their methods. I like the atmosphere of Bufalina a little better for dinner, but Pieous for lunch or with kids.
> 
> Their pizzas:
> Pious's House on Fire and Bufalina's Napolitano. I only order Margarita at new places I try, if they can get that right, they are GTG.


What's on the Napolitano...crumbled italian sausage?


----------



## Tscarborough

Crumbled Italian sausage, garlic, black olives, chili oil, and basil with no cheese.


----------



## PrestigeR&D

I was with you up until the "No cheese".:blink:....are you insane! ,!









Pizza without cheese is like wanting to get a woman pregnant with a condom on..........:laughing:


JMPOV....


----------



## Inner10

PrestigeR&D said:


> I was with you up until the "No cheese".:blink:....are you insane! ,!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pizza without cheese is like wanting to get a woman pregnant with a condom on..........:laughing:
> 
> 
> JMPOV....


I think we can come up with a better analogy. :laughing:

When I was younger there was a place that we use to get pizza at that sold Sicilian style pizza, we always got marinara pizza which only had a light dusting of parm, garlic and olive oil. The pizza was cooked in a large rectangular pan with a generous dose of oil. Take out came wrapped in about 4 layers of brown paper. Damn it was good.

I conveniently live 2 blocks from this place:

http://twpizza.com/

Not quite Neapolitan pizza, but definitely one of the best around.


----------



## dom-mas

To paraphrase the old apple pie saying

A pizza without cheese is like a kiss without a squeeze

But I don't always like cheese with my apple pie, so ....it's kind of like whatever Scoob


----------



## stonecutter

With great dough, the cheese is second fiddle. Checkout the classic Marinara by Ciro Salvo...


----------



## JBM

Looks great! Except for all that crust lol.


----------



## stonecutter

JBM said:


> Looks great! Except for all that crust lol.


:laughing:

That's to mop up the sauce!


----------



## Fancis Casini

You guys are nuts....I've never been here read only half the posts....I didnt see the pizza my dad lloves Roselands in Dreby Ct. makes it Marchegiano Style It has no sauce rosemary/garlic/salt/oilve oil/ black olive







sometimes and maybe anchiovees......very thin pie some places put clams on it as does Pepe's in new haven ct. I think they were voted top three nationwide for the clam pie.

Any how I'm not an oven master I did maybe 4...3 small fakes in my house with domesand one rebuild next door but it was flueless as it was in the rear wall of a big walkin fp. 
Just helped a guy from Australia with details on building a slanted Rumford and he now wants to help me out with my invention. 
He owns a firebrick co. and sent me his link which I thought was appropriate for you all here. He's a mechanical Engineer and schooled in a few other areas and seems quite nice...I'll see if he'd be interested in coming here as he sells cut firebrick and oven kits etc.....perhaps we'll make some proper throats that host vortex'es Gee I notice that many ovens leak from the door tops!LOL

Stone Man and T... you guys belong on the Chew...lol...keep it up and nice work on the granite and stone oven did you work on grave stones...lol My dad's best friend had a yard I can still see the derek and cable crane. 

His site...... http://www.melbournefirebricks.com.au/


----------



## stonecutter

Yeah, undersized throats are something I see a lot of, and in fact, the oven I built at my last home was a bit undersized. It had a very good draw, but I had to preheat the flue a few seconds before shoving the kindling into the oven chamber. I built my latest throat the way I built all,the others, and this oven never smokes, even with a cold flue and it faces the prevailing wind. Fortunately, my old home oven was the only oven with that problem.


----------



## stonecutter

Here are the completed oven pics. The cedar trim on the gable isn't sealed because I want it to weather grey first. I'll probably add another cap to the existing one to extend the drip line beyond the chimney face, and to add more detail. One pic at a time because of iPad.....


----------



## stonecutter

This shows the weathering on the cedar shingles better...


----------



## JBM

That looks fantastic Matt!


----------



## brickhook

I'd love to have that in my back yard!


----------



## lukachuki

a thing of beauty Matt


----------



## fjn

Now that is perfection ! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Captainsls

I just read this thread in its entirety. WOW! Amazing stuff thats posted in here. Stonecutter, you are a madman. I like seeing all the dough recipes and pizza styles as well. Thanks to everyone thats contributed to this thread.


----------



## Tscarborough

Diced proscuitto, onions and fresh jalapenos cooked in 2 minutes. Yum!


----------



## Tscarborough

This one was even better, center cut bacon bits and clamata olives, with mozzarella, grated parm, and quesadillo cheese.


----------



## Tscarborough

and this one shows why you should build as big of an oven as possible. A 16" pizza in a 22" oven is tight.


----------



## stonecutter

Solution... Build a bigger oven!


Pies look great. Are those made with the 00 batch you posted on PM?


----------



## Tscarborough

Yes, I am still not a fan of the Caputo though. It is good, but not worth the extra money.


----------



## stonecutter

If you're not shooting for sub 90 second pies, then I wouldn't even bother with 00 anyway. I'm pretty happy with my neapolitan pizza made with AP, and I'm getting nice ones at 90+.


----------



## stonecutter

Though I just got 12 lbs of Caputo that came in on Friday.


----------



## Tscarborough

Yeah, I do not Neapolitan, I am 2-4 minute NY elite. I LIKE Neapolitan, don't get me wrong, but other people already make it better than me so I just eat theirs.


----------



## stonecutter

If love to try some of your pizza someday, the combos are creative. Truthfully, I enjoy most styles of pizza ( except Chicago deep dish 'pizza') and lately we've been making some with very different toppings...the style of the crust is (I guess you would call) Neo-NY style. 

I've just been calling it pizza.


----------



## CJKarl

I think I need to make pizza tonight.


----------



## CJKarl

Think I've only done 2 or 3 burns all summer.


----------



## stonecutter

I've been using it regularly through this ungodly hot summer...usually with a box fan under an umbrella. We've got 40 or so friends and family coming over on Saturday, that will get me sweating.


----------



## CJKarl

Labor Day pizza coming right up.


----------



## bennyg

StoneCutter, I have spent a good hour or so today reading through all of the posts on this thread. Good Lord man, that oven is a thing of beauty. The granite mouth and landing.. words fail me. Incredible craftsmanship, I think you should consider living out the rest of your days in that house. 

Tscarborough, you sir are responsible for making me unbearably hungry, so many great looking pizzas, can't believe how much you manage to fit into that oven. 

This is a cool thread, hope I'm welcome  

A little about me, I run a small business in Melbourne, Australia - The Melbourne Fire Brick Company. We specialize in refractory materials mainly for Wood Fired Ovens and fireplaces.


----------



## stonecutter

bennyg said:


> StoneCutter, I have spent a good hour or so today reading through all of the posts on this thread. Good Lord man, that oven is a thing of beauty. The granite mouth and landing.. words fail me. Incredible craftsmanship, I think you should consider living out the rest of your days in that house.
> 
> Tscarborough, you sir are responsible for making me unbearably hungry, so many great looking pizzas, can't believe how much you manage to fit into that oven.
> 
> This is a cool thread, hope I'm welcome
> 
> A little about me, I run a small business in Melbourne, Australia - The Melbourne Fire Brick Company. We specialize in refractory materials mainly for Wood Fired Ovens and fireplaces.


You're Ben right? I think a couple guys on forno bravo bought your oven kit. You should re-register as a vendor on this site. Welcome!


----------



## stonecutter

Something to get your stomach rumbling.....Parmesan/Garlic flatbread. I'm baking for a small event later today.


----------



## bennyg

stonecutter said:


> You're Ben right? I think a couple guys on forno bravo bought your oven kit. You should re-register as a vendor on this site. Welcome!


Thank you sir! I am indeed Ben. Thank you for the welcome!

Yup, a few of my customers have put up threads following their builds, it's been a real pleasure to watch them come together! 

OK, so I need to relist myself as a vendor. I will now go figure out how to do that.


----------



## stonecutter

I'm not sure how, but Tscar is one. Maybe one of the mods will see this and help you out. Or I can report your post as abusive and get their attention.:laughing:


----------



## bennyg

NoooooOOOOooooo! That's the last thing I need, trouble with the MAN. Or should I say, the mods.


----------



## Tscarborough

It is under profile somewhere.


----------



## Tinstaafl

Ben, just go here to join the Vendor group:

http://www.contractortalk.com/profile.php?do=editusergroups

Welcome to the site!


----------



## dom-mas

Was that really Lukachuki coming out of the woodwork...stonework??? somewhere anyway.

Welcome back


----------



## stonecutter

I do miss his wit.....


----------



## JBM




----------



## bennyg

That box looks suspiciously store bought! Sigh... so hungry. My oven is actually hot and ready to cook in, but I have no dough!


----------



## stonecutter

The latest offering....


----------



## CJKarl

Mmmmmm. Did a whole Thanksgiving in mine a couple years ago.


----------



## stonecutter

Do you remember how long it took for the bird?


----------



## Inner10

stonecutter said:


> Do you remember how long it took for the bird?


He had pizza for thanksgiving. :laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

Either way I bet I was awesome!


----------



## stonecutter

We are up in Asheville,NC and tried out another Neapolitan pizza place-Pizza Pura. First we had....

The spiedini-skewered aged provolone, preserved lemon, rosemary, wrapped in proscuitto di parma, wood fired with arugula and house baguette. 

Then three pizzas- 12" each. 


The margarita-pretty good, but they missed the EVOO and the sauce need a bit of salt. Good char, motz was nice, made in house.

salsiccia-house made fennel & sage sausage, roasted leek, italian cream, smoked mozzarella. This one was delishous. The smoked cheese was a nice touch.

fig and pig- old world pancetta lardon, roasted fig, garlic, arugula, gorgonzola. The runaway table favorite. Very balanced flavor and texture. I'm stealing this idea!


----------



## CJKarl

stonecutter said:


> Do you remember how long it took for the bird?



No, but I remember I didn't stuff it to keep cooking simpler. Also did a ham later in the bake, Acorn squash on the shell and some bread after everything came out.


----------



## CJKarl

I found some video of it. Looks like I did stuff it and I say "it's been in about an hour"


----------



## CJKarl

Uploads from Karl Kaufmann: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh_WqdLHfw8&list=UUw2SswV4YAr7q4NdVnJAIrg


----------



## CJKarl

Liten to the sizzle! 
Notice the January snow on the ground.


----------



## stonecutter

CJKarl said:


> Liten to the sizzle!
> Notice the January snow on the ground.


That was cool! I'd you remove the coals that morning or the night before?


----------



## CJKarl

I just loaded it up with wood and when it burned down to coals I pulled them out.
Probably 1.5 to 2 hr. Burn. I should have waited on the bread untill the oven had cooled another 100*. But it was still all good. Bread was probably in for 15-20 minutes.


----------



## dom-mas

Looks delicious. Your voice does NOT sound like what I was expecting. Kind of the opposite of seeing a radio DJ


----------



## tgeb

Nice video.

I have plans for this sort of oven.....


----------



## stonecutter

tgeb said:


> Nice video.
> 
> I have plans for this sort of oven.....


You should. You'll get nothing but positive encouragement here! :thumbsup:


----------



## tgeb

Oh, I'm sure my skills will be critiqued, I've laid up a few brick catch basins and repaired some things, but my brick and mortar handy work is far from what this crowd is used to.

But I am determined to build an oven....rickety as it might end up....


----------



## Inner10

dom-mas said:


> Looks delicious. Your voice does NOT sound like what I was expecting. Kind of the opposite of seeing a radio DJ


I was expecting a deep rough voice with a smokers cough.


----------



## CJKarl

dom-mas said:


> Looks delicious. Your voice does NOT sound like what I was expecting. Kind of the opposite of seeing a radio DJ


That's what I thought. Record yourself, you may be surprised.


----------



## CJKarl

Inner10 said:


> I was expecting a deep rough voice with a smokers cough.


'I'm not surprised to see you here
You've got smokers cough from smoking, brewer's droop from drinking beer
I don't know how you came to get the Betty Davis knees
But worst of all young man you've got Industrial Disease'


----------



## stonecutter

That's a good tune Karl.

How about: It's okay had a bad day
Hands are bruised from breaking rocks all day


----------



## dom-mas

Dire Straights right...CJ's anyway...don't know SC's song


----------



## brickhook

It's raining outside and the wife is sick, I guess it's a good day to bury myself in the 'wood fired oven' threads. I've read these threads front to back so many times , I have them memorized .


----------



## stonecutter

That's cool hook...it's meant to be a resource as much as entertainment.


----------



## stonecutter

We were in Asheville earlier this week and hit a bunch of salvage yards and found some great stuff. I spotted this Italian marble pastry slab and snatched it up..$29. It's 18"x30"x3/4. Typically this size, you're looking at least $150.


----------



## stonecutter

I grabbed the butcher block table at another place for $32...I don't think they knew what they had. The top is tight, and isn't all beat up. 24"x24"x3" and has nice farmhouse skirt boards and legs.


----------



## stonecutter

A burn we did a few weeks ago...mine and my sons fav, Margarita.


----------



## stonecutter

Just before the wheel got it...


----------



## Tscarborough

Nice score on the slab and table, and a very nice margharita. I use an 18x18 marble floor tile outside, it works great.


----------



## brickhook

We love Asheville. We try to get down there a couple of weekends a year. My wife is 'Biltmore Crazy' :laughing:


----------



## brickhook

Do ya'll use your ovens often ? I really want to try to build one. But I've never seen a pizza oven before, much less try to build one. :no: So I'd be some what lost. 

I don't want to build something in my back yard and stop using it after the new wears off ( like an old swimming pool)

I first thought it was something like a phase I was going through :laughing: But I keep returning to the threads to see what ya'll are building and cooking ! And I keep researching ovens on the ol inter web when ever I have time.


----------



## stonecutter

Not every weekend, but I'm sure we will use it even more now that the ungodly hot summer is easing up. It doesn't get old....me me anyway.


----------



## Tscarborough

I fire it up at least once a month, hot or cold, but usually more often in the spring and fall. I have probably cooked 300 pizzas in the last 4 years, plus a plethora of other stuff in it.


----------



## wnc viking

Asheville where everyday is Halloween I live near asheville and help a friend of mine that has a farm with one of the two tailgate markets they do on Saturdays in Asheville . It is worth it just for the people watching


----------



## CJKarl

PERFECT night for a burn.

It's hot in that opening!









Our saying around here. "The less'a the round, the betta the taste"









...and the worlds BEST nachos.


----------



## CJKarl

Gotta keep a sharp eye on nachos, they can go quick in a hot oven. There's a fine line between caramel and carbon.


----------



## stonecutter

Nice! I haven't done nachos in the oven yet.


----------



## dom-mas

I gotta get back at it. I haven't touched it in almost a month


----------



## stonecutter

It happens. Hopefully you get it dried in before the deep freeze.


----------



## dom-mas

I should have a lot more time on my hands once Oct comes around. Right now I'm away from home for 12-14 hours a day and weekends are booked with kids stuff or it's raining. Oct I'm going to be starting the abutments for the bridge so I'll be close to home.


----------



## Tscarborough

I can't imagine nachos taking more than 10 or 15 seconds in a fully fired oven. Sounds like a good appetizer while I futz around getting pizzas ready. Good call!


----------



## CJKarl

I keep them near the door. Yeah, 15-20 seconds then turn it 180*


----------



## JBM

You guys watch The Wahlburgers?


----------



## brickhook

NACHO! :laughing:


----------



## stonecutter

That pic belongs on the no-neck thread. :laughing:


----------



## CJKarl

Trouble in paradise. Noticed this the other day. Brick from the inner arch/above opening. I didn't follow basic arch building technique. Not sure what happened here, but I was probably in a hurry to finish or I wanted to use up some scrap angle cuts.
I think ill pull those 2 small pieces out and put 2 larger ones in.


----------



## Tscarborough

They are not arched. Slant them outward. My keystone came loose too from me hitting it with the peel. It was hard to remove and re-mortar though, because it was keyed.

We had a rib contest in the 'hood this weekend, so I did a couple of racks. One dryrubbed the other salt/sugar brined. Both were then brushed with a honey glaze. Neither one won, but they were pretty good and fell off the bone after 7 hours at 250-200 degrees.


----------



## brickhook

They look like winners to me! :thumbsup:


----------



## stonecutter

Bummer Karl.

Those are mighty fine looking ribs Tscar.


----------



## brickhook

I find myself looking through this thread this morning......craving RIBS!


----------



## dom-mas

I'm pretty sure that my craving for ribs is a constant throughout my life. Beef, pork, lamb I even love nibbling at roast chicken ribs. YUMMMMMM


----------



## stonecutter

Not from the WFO but still great. This is sourdough bread mom made from starter I got from Oregon. I've got pizza dough proofing for tonight using the same starter.


----------



## CJKarl

Look at that CRUST!
drooling


----------



## stonecutter

One of the margheritas we did with the sourdough starter.


----------



## stonecutter

Side view


----------



## CJKarl

Think I may do a bird and an acorn squash in the oven tonight. Haven't fixed the missing brick from the inner doorway. Shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## krislemon

Love this thread alot. Have a client that wants to build a 60" wfo. Working on some drawings for him and am trying to figure out the best sizes for the big oven. Right now I have the height of the dome 23". and the opening 20" by 14.5". I am also open to suggestions for the flue. My original thought was maybe 12"x24". Looking forward to hearing from all of you.


----------



## CJKarl

This is a very good site. http://www.traditionaloven.com/
So is this one. http://www.fornobravo.com/


----------



## stonecutter

Sourdough...


----------



## brickhook

I HAVE GOT TO BUILD ME AN OVEN! Ya'll are killing me! :laughing: Man keep the pictures coming.....:thumbsup:


----------



## stonecutter

brickhook said:


> man keep the pictures coming.....:thumbsup:


o.k.


----------



## brickhook

That's awesome! Did you bake the bread this weekend?


----------



## stonecutter

krislemon said:


> Love this thread alot. Have a client that wants to build a 60" wfo. Working on some drawings for him and am trying to figure out the best sizes for the big oven. Right now I have the height of the dome 23". and the opening 20" by 14.5". I am also open to suggestions for the flue. My original thought was maybe 12"x24". Looking forward to hearing from all of you.


60" sized ovens are usually for commercial use, since they aren't as practical to use occasionally. Any reason why the client wants an oven that big?

Your dome is going to be hemispherical with those numbers (nothing wrong with that) which tends to be a good general purpose shape. If he wanted an oven that leans toward Neapolitan pizza, the you want an elliptical dome (3 center arch) and a ceiling height somewhere around 17"-17.5".
Your door height should be around 60-64% of the finished interior ceiling height. Personally, with an oven that huge, I would make the oven opening 12.5"-13.5". That gives you plenty of working room, and the lower height helps with heat retention, by restricting the exhaust a bit better than a larger opening. 20" is a decent width, but you might open the up more, if your arch is lower than 14". 
You'll be good with a 12" round flue....12x24" might be a bit too big. I've seen some huge ovens with 10" that had great draw. Pay attention to the throat opening. For the throat length,I try to go a minimum of 65% of the oven opening. For a larger oven, I would go up to 75%. So the width of a 20" oven opening would be 15". The depth of the throat should be no less than 5".


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## stonecutter

brickhook said:


> That's awesome! Did you bake the bread this weekend?


I baked that last night in the home oven because it was pouring rain. The dough was intended for the wfo. 475* for 45 mins. A few minutes after I snapped the pic, I had the KerryGold out of the fridge......


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## brickhook

I had can biscuits this morning :sad: :laughing:


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## dom-mas

stonecutter said:


> . For the throat length,I try to go a minimum of 65% of the oven opening. For a larger oven, I would go up to 75%. So the width of a 20" oven opening would be 15". The depth of the throat should be no less than 5".


Thanks for that. One of my next questions


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## krislemon

Thanks for the advice. If the client does want to build this monster I do want it to function very well. He is from greece and owns a restauraunt in town so I have no doubt that he will put it to use. I just joined to fornobravo forum there is some great information on there and lots of great builds to follow.


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## brickhook

To me....these WFO threads are some of the most interesting threads on CT.


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## stonecutter

Might have something to do with food??:laughing:


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## brickhook

stonecutter said:


> Might have something to do with food??:laughing:


You're probably right! :laughing:


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## CJKarl

Was just looking at Matts sourdough bread......starting to drool like a dog.


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## stonecutter

I might rename it Pavlovian sourdough, Carl!:laughing:


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## stonecutter

This one came out even better.


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## brickhook

You're killing me!


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## S.U.M

I gotta stop reading this topic, starving again..


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## dom-mas

Wettest dough I've ever made...by FAR. But I think I may have used 1/2 a cup or more in dusting. I always equate too much dusting flour with a raw flour taste. I'm trusting you here. I'll let you know how it works tomorrow.

I'm going to be doing crab stuffed mushrooms also in a pan for apps. Should I be getting the pan hot before cooking or just throw it in close to the opening, I'm guessing I want about 400*


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## stonecutter

I usually stick to a range of 60-65% for my dough. You'll get the hang of using the right amount of flour...it's just practice and more practice. Extra flour does leave a bitter taste.


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## dom-mas

Well that was...different. Good, really good but very, very different. Dough was still quite wet when it came out of the fridge. Super stretchy but it didn;t keep it`s ball shape instead it spread out. Needed quite bit of bench flour and for the life of me i couldn;t get it any where near a circle (same as always) it kept snapping back into whatever the basic original shape was...tons of gluten I GUESS. I was NOT able to effectivley transfer it from the counter to the peel, it just stretched until it tore, was quite a hassle getting it on, but I WAS able to launch it quite easily...so?????? I thought the first pies we did had nice thin crispy yet stretchy crusts but they were easily twice as thick as this dough was and not near as crispy or stretchy. Taste was excellent. So everyone liked it, a success for sure but like all this stuff it's going to take some practise.

Mushrooms were delicious. I got some old bay, never used it before, and I'm not sure if it was the magic or what but dang that crab filling was yummy


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## Tscarborough

With wet, cold fermented doughs, you do not need to do much mixing and no kneading at all. I mix by hand for 2-3 minutes and then after the bulk rise, I will stretch and fold 5-6 times then ball them up.


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## Germantown

Which flour are you guys using ? Ive been using "00" caputo . I still think King Arthur bread flour makes a better pizza from my experience.


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## stonecutter

I use KAAP or Caputo 00 blue bag. KA bread flour is ok for home ovens but it tends to burn fast (pizza making) in a wood oven so I don't use it for anything but bread.


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## dom-mas

I've just been using all purpose, not even a bread flour. I looked for a 00 or a caputo or a semolina and my local sucks. I haven't tried the healthfood store yet though. I haven't gone to the city in months, most years I do half my work or more in the city, and i don't feel like making a special trip to an Italian grocery store just for flour. I'm going to keep trying different recipes...so far there has been zero disappointment with anything so I'll keep trying.

There's a guy on Youtube with a really good channel, can't remember his name, something cuban, Montoya maybe, he lives in Japan and is crazy about pizza. lots of great info from him...although he takes it WAY more serious than I ever would


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## Tscarborough

I use all kinds, but AP works just fine.


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## stonecutter

Sean, you can get caputo blue bag on Amazon.


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## krislemon

I got 240 firebricks. Is it going to be enough to build a 36" oven? Wondering how many you guys used on your ovens?


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## stonecutter

Yes that should be plenty, including building the entry and flue transition.


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## dom-mas

So a general question. 

the last 2 times I've used the oven the results haven't been amazing. Basically it hasn't gotten up to heat as fast as it did on the first few occasions. Both times however it rained like a bastard before I cooked. Yesterday and last night we got an inch or more of rain and last week it rained that afternoon but cleared up by the time we were ready to cook. So i don;t have a roof yet (haven't worked on it for over a month) so it's getting fairly saturated...I'm guessing that that is the issue...I mean of course it's the issue...right?

Tonight after a 2.5 hour burn we could only do 5 minute pizzas...the first few times we had easy 90 sec pizzas burning the same amount of wood in under 2 hours. So could it be the wood or is rain the more likely reason? The source of wood has changed each time.

also it's more an issue of cheese not bubbling and getting golden than the crust not cooking although it took longer for the crust to cook for sure


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## stonecutter

99.99% that you've got a wet oven. Seasoned dry hardwood of any type won't effect a firing that much after a few hours. Cover that oven Sean.


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## dom-mas

I was pretty sure that was the issue. I don't think there's any rain forecast for the next little while so I'll let it dry out before covering it...or maybe just get some work done and build the roof


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## JBM

Careful you dont heat that moisture also. 

After moving a mountain of rocks you dont want to come home and build an oven at night with the lights on? Say it aint so lol!


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## dom-mas

No cracks that I've seen yet...I haven't stuck my head up in yet either though. 

Figured I've installed somewhere in the region of 120 tons at the bridge...some days I'm just whooped. We got another foundation dropped off yesterday. Still had 20 or 30 tons left from the original load but the quality was getting low. These new ones are all beasts...few that are under 100 lbs. And they all have to go up...Oy vey


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## Tinstaafl

dom-mas said:


> These new ones are all beasts...few that are under 100 lbs. And they all have to go up...Oy vey


I'd say after a day at that you'd qualify to be a Walmart greeter. Maybe. :laughing:


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## brickhook

Im not one to dig up old threads, but I really enjoy going back and reading through these wood fired oven threads. I think they deserve a spot on the front page :thumbsup:


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## stonecutter

She's an oldie now.:thumbsup:


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## brickhook

stonecutter said:


> She's an oldie now.:thumbsup:


I still think this thread deserves a spot on the front page :thumbsup:


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## ibgreen

We have a crude WFO up at a family farm. Lots of new ideas for our next get together! One of our favorite pizzas is a Reuben pizza. Simply thousand island for sauce, pastrami, Swiss and sauerkraut.


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## brickhook

ibgreen said:


> We have a crude WFO up at a family farm. Lots of new ideas for our next get together! One of our favorite pizzas is a Reuben pizza. Simply thousand island for sauce, pastrami, Swiss and sauerkraut.


I see you're from Raleigh....wheres your farm located?


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## ibgreen

brickhook said:


> I see you're from Raleigh....wheres your farm located?


Granville county. More specifically Culbreth, a small community by shoofly and Stem (they got creative when picking names back in the day)


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## brickhook

Stonecutter builds some beautiful ovens!


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## Fundi

I never finish, but it is useable.

We used for 3 weekends now. so I am ready to ask questions.


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## Fundi

How much heat do you see on the outside. I can get up to 320C (610F) on the floor next to the fire and 400C (750F) on the wall. outside the insulation it eventually goes to 35C (95F) from air temp of 25C (75F). Below the oven it is only 32C

I insulated below with empty olive oil bottles and around he dome with bottles, and on top with clay sawdust. 

The next morning 12 hours later the floor is 150C (300F)

Did i insulate good enough?


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## Fundi

After the oven is up to temperature, where is the best place to have the coals and continuieng fire? on the side?


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## Fundi

i was in a hurry and stole a cookie sheet from the kitchen for a peel. i now realize why they are round but we can get by for now


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## Tscarborough

Fire to the side works best. It will get hotter as it cures, once it is cured the soot will burn off during firing from the bottom of the walls up.


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## Fundi

Tscarborough said:


> Fire to the side works best. It will get hotter as it cures, once it is cured the soot will burn off during firing from the bottom of the walls up.


Thanks. was hotter this weekend. Second night I also tried putting coals on both sides. closer to 2 minutes.


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## Fundi

Fundi said:


> The next morning 12 hours later the floor is 150C (300F)
> 
> Did i insulate good enough?


i would still like to know if the temperature the next day is good or i could of done better?


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## JBM

brickhook said:


> Stonecutter builds some beautiful ovens!


Stonecutter lives in Mexico or sometihng like that right now.


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## Tscarborough

I normally have to take the door off the next morning to get down to bread temps. It has been awhile, but if I remember right, it is logarithmic, that is, it drops temp more quickly the hotter it is, but as it runs down the temp curve it takes longer to cool to ambient. It takes mine 5 days from full fire to return to ambient, even using it in between (pizza>bread>meat).


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## stonecutter

JBM said:


> Stonecutter lives in Mexico or sometihng like that right now.


Ambergris Caye, Belize buddy!


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## stonecutter

Fundi said:


> i would still like to know if the temperature the next day is good or i could of done better?


You can never insulate too much, but that's pretty decent Erik. Not great, but not bad either!


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## Fundi

Past weekend i hit the 90 seconds for the first pizzas!


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## brickhook

Ive said it before....I love this thread....one day I want to build me one:thumbsup:


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## fjn

brickhook said:


> Ive said it before....I love this thread....one day I want to build me one:thumbsup:




An oven is on my bucket list along with a masonry stove.:thumbsup:


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## brickhook

My plans were to have one built by now, but like the rest of my plans..things change :sad:


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