# To level, or not to level, that is the question.



## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Gentlemen,

Getting ready to drywall the ceiling of an apartment in a very old building. Old enough that the center of the building has sagged so both floors nd ceilings have a central sag to them.

Question is how to do the strapping. First impulse is to get out the laser level and shim the strapping to get a nice, level, flat ceiling. But then I wonder - which will look better or worse? A nice flat, level ceiling, or a ceiling that follows the floor and the lines of the building? for example, there's a beam running down the center of the living/dining room. If I level the ceiling, it's going to show the non-level of the beam as it tapers to the ends.

From your experience, which is visually better?

Thanks.


----------



## Carly (Feb 23, 2012)

*ceiling*

I was told very early in my budding career as a remodeler that I could either level the ceiling and I would be right in doing so, but it will not look good or I could make it look good and not be level. Which do you think the customer would want-ask them.


----------



## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Carly said:


> I was told very early in my budding career as a remodeler that I could either level the ceiling and I would be right in doing so, but it will not look good or I could make it look good and not be level. Which do you think the customer would want-ask them.


Where functionally it makes no difference, I'm confident most people will prefer whatever looks better.


----------



## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

its not up to you its up to the person signing the check


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

bob_cntrctr said:


> Where functionally it makes no difference, I'm confident most people will prefer whatever looks better.


Exactly!
Joe


----------



## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

When working in old houses, leave the level at home.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

shanekw1 said:


> When working in old houses, leave the level at home.


Unless you're redoing a bathroom...

There's a third option - box it down around the edges. Usually the major objection is that the ceiling isn't flat. If the ceiling is high enough, you can box down around the edge to take up some of the existing slop, then more or less flatten out the rest of the ceiling. It's a lot more work than the other options, but you can make it look pretty good.


----------



## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Can't you shim the beam as well so everything is true and level


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

The cabinetmaker in me says to level the ceiling. 
If anyone decides to put in built ins to the ceiling, they will look so much nicer with a flat and level ceiling. The beam can be massaged to a level plane as well.

The contractor in me wants to know why it settled and if you can count on it staying put.


----------



## fr8train (Jul 17, 2007)

I would say it depends on the scope of the job, are you doing the entire building? 

*Yes* Find the cause of the sag, jack everything up and address the real problem. rotten post, bad footing, undersized header, etc etc.

*No* Make it look as good as you can, add strapping, and shim everything accordingly.

Either way, I would still look for the cause of the sag, inform the H/O, and go from there. This way you cover your own backside if things go bad later.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

For every action....... there is a reaction.


----------



## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

shanekw1 said:


> When working in old houses, leave the level at home.


Best advice I ever got the first time I leveled something and it didn't match the site lines of surrounding features.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree with the ones that said it's the customers call. There are pros and cons to both. Lay them out and let it be their decision. That way, no matter what, you are doing what they want.

If it were me, I wouldn't level it unless it was really off. But then again, if it were really off, I would want to know why.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Think about the door headers,windows,crown,pictures,cabinets,tile in bathrooms,window treatments.

What is the height of the ceiling ,doors and windows.


Just went through a remodel where the house had settled.We had entire rooms that were tilted out of level. Floors to trusses.

Here's just one of the problems. Window guy installs new window(30hx60w). Crooked,but you would never know because it parrellels the ceiling and floor and soffit outside.
Next crew cases the top and sides. Great,At this point no one,including myself knows this room had an issue.
Then hear comes this a-hole that installs the sill...........Perfectly level:blink::blink: He knew something was wrong but chose to be an idiot and put it in that way without even asking me about it.
It's the only level thing in the room.:no::no:

That was just one of many problems we ran into on this one. Beware


----------



## fr8train (Jul 17, 2007)

Big Shoe said:


> Think about the door headers,windows,crown,pictures,cabinets,tile in bathrooms,window treatments.
> 
> What is the height of the ceiling ,doors and windows.
> 
> ...



So now everyone walks in, and asks "Why is the sill crooked?" LOL

I'm going through this in my house, 110 yrs old, nothing level, nothing square. If you could extend the 3 load bearing walls (that run up through the entire building) about 100 yards, they would come to a point. I'm not an experienced carpenter framer, etc, blah blah, makes ya scratch your head sometimes. :whistling I'm a jack of all trades, journeyman of 1. Finishing drywall.:thumbsup:


----------



## Yankee Framer (Feb 20, 2012)

bob_cntrctr said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> 
> From your experience, which is visually better?
> ...


*looks out window* Can't see it from my house. :thumbsup:

I do think you answer your own question. What looks better. key word is look. People will be looking at it not at a level held against it. I think most people would rather look at something that is parallel/uniform/symmetrical then crooked/uneven/disorienting. The illusion of perfection. :thumbsup:


----------



## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

depends on the house, and depends on the client.. if your gonna level the ceiling and its a high end house with really picky client your gonna have to level the floor also.. you cant have a wall thats 8' on one side of the room and 7'9 1/2" on the other, it will show unless you do it to the floor as well so everythings perfect especially for a kitchen

typically we just make it flat.. have the long level but dont pay any attention to the bubble.. just make it so its straight so when the paint hits it the ceiling isnt wavey


----------



## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Depends what is going on, and how level/plumb everything else is around it.

If it is like most old buildings (where nothing is plumb/level) probably flat (uniform surface) and true will be the way to go.

I'd run stringlines and see what exactly is going on. Make your decision then, just remember that if you shim one end like an inch and a half to make to level, the rest of the place might look funny.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

fr8train said:


> So now everyone walks in, and asks "Why is the sill crooked?" LOL


That's exactly what happened! :laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

bob_cntrctr said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Getting ready to drywall the ceiling of an apartment in a very old building. Old enough that the center of the building has sagged so both floors nd ceilings have a central sag to them.
> 
> ...


Who signs the check, give them 2 options, have them sign off and do what they want...


----------



## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks, all, for the input.

The Sag - no mystery - like many century old buildings, the support posts in the basement are just a couple of tree trunks stuck in the ground. Waaay out of the scope of this project.

Who decides - owner will have final say, but it will almost certainly be whatever I suggest would "look" best based on years of experience of making this call....

I recall asimilar job on a similarly sagging triplex once. No thought was given to this issue and so no effort was made to level the eiling, and I have yet to have anyone remark on the ceilings not being level. Based on that and this thread, I'm leaning heavily toward ceiling parallel to floor and beam, not level.

Thanks again.


----------

