# Where can I find NC codes?



## vinnievega (Sep 2, 2009)

Hey guys, I need some help finding North Carolina Codes and ordinances for the town of Cary. I'm building a 725sq ft work shop in my fathers back yard on a budget. I had the local home depot draw up some plans. Just something I can take to the town and apply for a permit with. I plan on overbuilding it a bit but I really want to double check that what I have down isn't going to breech any codes, especially before I place an order for materials. Any help will be greatly appreciated because any question answered here will be one less I have to ask the jaggoffs at the town :clap:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

It generally takes about seven minutes from the time you begin talking with your city's (town's) building officials for them to read your opinion of them. Those aren't very good odds with which to begin your relationship with them. You just might want to consider walking through their door with the expectation of finding someone there who may prove to be beneficial and helpful to know.

Remember, they will be dealing the cards you will have to play the game with.

I'd suggest you first work on a good attitude, get your head straight, then give Harry Van Wagenen a call at (919) 460-4977.

Harry will probably give you all you need, but if not, PM me and I'll give you the phone number to the direct office for your code information. But try Harry first... the people at the number I'll provide may not be nearly as helpful.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

vinnievega said:


> Hey guys, I need some help finding North Carolina Codes and ordinances for the town of Cary. I'm building a 725sq ft work shop in my fathers back yard on a budget.* I had the local home depot draw up some plans.* Just something I can take to the town and apply for a permit with. I plan on overbuilding it a bit but I really want to double check that what I have down isn't going to breech any codes, especially before I place an order for materials. Any help will be greatly appreciated because any question answered here will be one less I have to ask the jaggoffs at the town :clap:


Whoever drew up the plans should know what they are doing, were they sealed by a P.E.?

You say you are a remodelling contractor, yet you don't know where to find the building codes???


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## vinnievega (Sep 2, 2009)

bwalley said:


> Whoever drew up the plans should know what they are doing, were they sealed by a P.E.?
> 
> You say you are a remodelling contractor, yet you don't know where to find the building codes???



Check the introduction forums. I should really put "in training" somewhere in my title so people don't get as frustrated with me lol, I'm brand new to the trade and this shop will be the first large project that I'm trying to tackle as a GC. It is a learning process all the way through for me, but my father has been involved with every aspect of the construction business to guide me through this. Sadly the only codes he knows are from Long Island, New York 1985.


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## vinnievega (Sep 2, 2009)

Willie T said:


> It generally takes about seven minutes from the time you begin talking with your city's (town's) building officials for them to read your opinion of them. Those aren't very good odds with which to begin your relationship with them. You just might want to consider walking through their door with the expectation of finding someone there who may prove to be beneficial and helpful to know.
> 
> Remember, they will be dealing the cards you will have to play the game with.
> 
> ...



Oh my attitude is fine when I'm at the township. Its just there are a few people down there that really make things difficult. Such as approving things at there office that there inspectors don't approve of on the site, but I guess that's just how things go in this business sometimes.

I'll give Harry a call this week and Ill let you know how it goes. I appreciate the help :notworthy


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

vinnievega said:


> Check the introduction forums. I should really put "in training" somewhere in my title so people don't get as frustrated with me lol, I'm brand new to the trade and this shop will be the first large project that I'm trying to tackle as a GC. It is a learning process all the way through for me, but my father has been involved with every aspect of the construction business to guide me through this. Sadly the only codes he knows are from Long Island, New York 1985.


It is situations like this that competency testing for contractors is a good idea.

It is great you want to learn, but the way things are done in New York in 1985 and the way they are done in NC in 2009, may not be the same and before you start taking on jobs as a profesional, you should know what you are doing, especially when doing structural work.

It may not be a bad idea for you to work for a local builder for a few years to learn what you are doing before starting out on your own.

Buy a set of code book's and start reading them.

When you talk to your permit clerks and plan reviewers as well as the inspectors, make sure you leave the bad attitude at home, having the attitude you do towards the town officials is not going to help you, how come they are jaggoff's, yet you don't know what the building codes are?

I deal with inspectors quite a bit, I am licensed in multiple trades, plus being the GC, I have to deal with all of them anyway, I have met some who are wrong on minor issues, yet I don't cop an attitude with them, I do as they ask, if I think it is out of line I will discuss it.

I had an issue in plan review where the plans examiner made a comment, when going over it with the senior plans examiner, the sr examiner said his guy was wrong on the parking spots, we weren't arguing with them about, just asking for clarification, the Architect changed them to comply with the stricter interpretation, even though we didn't have to, which I thought was a good idea, as it does us no good to argue with these guys.

Inspectors are there to protect the safety and welfare of the public, I don't want them allowing sloppy work getting by, as once they do, where does it end?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Well, it is strictly because you ARE in training that I wrote my toe-cramping advice. One of the very first big mistakes many of us make in this industry is to establish a "me vs them" attitude with the building department, our customers, and even sometimes with our own crews. Frankly, this is not only counter productive, but really kind of dumb. But, ours is an overtly ego charged environment, and we too often let our bravado override our brains.

Try never to forget this one fact. A reasonably sharp monkey can be trained to do much of our work. It's not rocket science. And although striving to excel in our chosen trades is commendable, please try never to get the "big head" that what we do is something special that others must respect...... and in so doing, must also hold *us* in equally high esteem. From the dawn of time humans have built dwellings. As Geico Insurance so aptly phrases it... "So easy a caveman can do it." We are service providers. And as such, we are primarily in the PEOPLE business.

Forget that truism, and it is entirely possible that you will succeed in creating many much more difficult situations through which you'll have to struggle, than if you had simply learned to remember it.


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## vinnievega (Sep 2, 2009)

Wow I'm getting eaten alive here, let me clear this up. I DO NOT HAVE AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM. I'm not looking to argue with inspectors or the township, or anyone on this forum. I just need a website where I can see the codes specifically for accessory buildings in NC, and preferably something on Cary town ordinances as they are much stricter in this area than most. Im having trouble finding this for 2009 as I already learned from searching on this site that the IRC has updated them. The reason I'm doing this is to insure that what I already have down on paper will be suitable for submission to the town. Im not going to tackle the big things by myself. I already have someone to dig and pour the foundation, as well as someone to help me frame the entire structure. I just need to make sure that I'm not breaching anything BEFORE I GO IN THERE and wait a few hours to have them send me right back out. Willie T has given me a useful lead to go on, and I will do just that after the holiday weekend. In the mean time I'll still be searching for the information I need so if anyone else has any input that will be useful please do share it.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

For reference in your immediate
problem, you might try here.
http://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

In Cary, you will find you're probably using 2003. Be very cautious in proceeding with the downloaded IRC. I can tell you for a fact that Cary incorporated a substantial number of amendments to those codes. Harry can point these out to you.

Wally and I work only a few miles apart. Yet each of us has learned from experience that crossing that 7 mile bridge between us can often reveal a world of surprises in local code. Not only in their phrasing, but also in their esoteric interpretations. We depend upon direct communication with each local building department to eliminate stupid mistakes that might cost us money.


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## vinnievega (Sep 2, 2009)

Willie T said:


> Well, it is strictly because you ARE in training that I wrote my toe-cramping advice. One of the very first big mistakes many of us make in this industry is to establish a "me vs them" attitude with the building department, our customers, and even sometimes with our own crews. Frankly, this is not only counter productive, but really kind of dumb. But, ours is an overtly ego charged environment, and we too often let our bravado override our brains.
> 
> Try never to forget this one fact. A reasonably sharp monkey can be trained to do much of our work. It's not rocket science. And although striving to excel in our chosen trades is commendable, please try never to get the "big head" that what we do is something special that others must respect...... and in so doing, must also hold *us* in equally high esteem. From the dawn of time humans have built dwellings. As Geico Insurance so aptly phrases it... "So easy a caveman can do it." We are service providers. And as such, we are primarily in the PEOPLE business.
> 
> Forget that truism, and it is entirely possible that you will succeed in creating many much more difficult situations through which you'll have to struggle, than if you had simply learned to remember it.


I should be paying for this education. I will try to keep this in mind.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

vinnievega said:


> Wow I'm getting eaten alive here, let me clear this up.* I DO NOT HAVE AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM.* I'm not looking to argue with inspectors or the township, or anyone on this forum. I just need a website where I can see the codes specifically for accessory buildings in NC, and preferably something on Cary town ordinances as they are much stricter in this area than most. Im having trouble finding this for 2009 as I already learned from searching on this site that the IRC has updated them. The reason I'm doing this is to insure that what I already have down on paper will be suitable for submission to the town. Im not going to tackle the big things by myself. I already have someone to dig and pour the foundation, as well as someone to help me frame the entire structure. I just need to make sure that I'm not breaching anything *BEFORE I GO IN THERE and wait a few hours to have them send me right back out*. Willie T has given me a useful lead to go on, and I will do just that after the holiday weekend. In the mean time I'll still be searching for the information I need so if anyone else has any input that will be useful please do share it.


Really???



vinnievega said:


> Hey guys, I need some help finding North Carolina Codes and ordinances for the town of Cary. I'm building a 725sq ft work shop in my fathers back yard on a budget. I had the local home depot draw up some plans. Just something I can take to the town and apply for a permit with. I plan on overbuilding it a bit but I really want to double check that what I have down isn't going to breech any codes, especially before I place an order for materials. *Any help will be greatly appreciated because any question answered here will be one less I have to ask the jaggoffs at the town *:clap:


You haven't even went to the town for a permit yet, but they are jaggoff's and you don't have an attitude???

Whoever drew the plans should make sure they comply with the applicable builidng code, if not they should be marked up with the errors in plan review and they will give you a list of discrepancies along with the applicable code.


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## vinnievega (Sep 2, 2009)

neolitic said:


> For reference in your immediate
> problem, you might try here.



Thank you, this looks to be exactly what I've been looking for. I'm having trouble getting the NC page to load but once I figure it out I'm sure it will be useful.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Willie T said:


> In Cary, you will find you're probably using 2003.


Willie, 
Were you from NC before Fla?


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## vinnievega (Sep 2, 2009)

bwalley said:


> Whoever drew the plans should make sure they comply with the applicable builidng code, if not they should be marked up with the errors in plan review and they will give you a list of discrepancies along with the applicable code.


I'm really hoping this is how it goes this round with my township, but thats not exactly how it went down the last time I was in there for plans for a deck. I have had my fair share of problems with a few people in my township which were no fault of my own that ended up costing me plenty of time. I'm sure that your town is of great help to you but so far my town is 0-3 with me, which gives me right to be a little upset with them. That in NO WAY at all dictates how I present myself when I'm in there office, as I played there game long enough to get what I needed done, as I am prepared to do now or I wouldn't be asking these questions in the first place.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

BTW. You're not being eaten alive. I think most of us like the way you've presented yourself. I can't speak for the whole forum, but I've said what I said just to try and help you circumvent some of the pitfalls many of us have stumbled into.

Believe it or not, in the construction world, what you are getting here and now is honest help. We're not the most polished group, and we do tend to be damned direct.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

vinnievega said:


> I'm really hoping this is how it goes this round with my township, but thats not exactly how it went down the last time I was in there for plans for a deck. I have had my fair share of problems with a few people in my township which were no fault of my own that ended up costing me plenty of time. I'm sure that your town is of great help to you but so far my town is 0-3 with me, which gives me right to be a little upset with them. That in NO WAY at all dictates how I present myself when I'm in there office, as I played there game long enough to get what I needed done, as I am prepared to do now or I wouldn't be asking these questions in the first place.


The commercial project I am on right now was a PITA to get permitted, I had to go to the permit office at least 20 times, but it wasn't their fault, it was the Architect, the reviewer's bent over backwards to help us, I never once gave them any attitude, I have over 20 permits on this job and that does not include the electrical, plumbing or roofing.

If the AHJ asks for something that is beyond what the FBC asks for and it is reasonable, I do it with no problems, these guys are here to help us, not cause us problems.

I have no problem with inspectors showing up on my jobsites, I exceed the building code and if we change the approved plans, I have the Architect or P.E. seal the changes and get it approved.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

neolitic said:


> Willie,
> Were you from NC before Fla?


No, just over the years (and there have been many of them) you tend to work in a lot of different areas. And you find that as an old fart, you seem to eventually know someone just about everywhere in the nation.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

VV............. You'll become very familiar with the AHJ. And, no, it's not an organization, per se. :whistling

Because we believe in each man earning his stripes, no one here is likely to tell you who those guys are. But one day you'll have an awakening and smile.

These silly little things are just some of the rights of passage that will likely frustrate you a bit through the years. But they will also help you grow.


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## cbfx3 (Aug 25, 2009)

I havent worked over in Cary in a while but they have built a rep over the years for being really tough.. Asking you to do stuff over and beyond the code. Good luck!


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