# Need some wall forming help



## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Hi All,

we retrofit quite a few egress windows every year, and sometimes our engineer requires us to add a counterfort wall to help keep the original foundation in place. 

We've only done this once before, and it went ok, but could have gone better. We are darn good Framing and Trim Carps, but I do not, and my crew does not have a lot of experience forming concrete walls.

As you can guess, our biggest challenge was preventing form blowout as we pour (place) the mud. We will be mixing it onsite and adding it in about two #80 bags at a time. Since we don't have any of the pre fab form setups, we were going to go old school with cdx plywood. 

Wall dimensions are to be 8" thick, 6' tall, 48" Projection from house.

Last time our problem was insufficient whalers, causing big bellies in the middle of the wall.

I went to White cap and they sold me some of these Gates form ties, 

http://gatesforming.com/horizontalRod.html 

told me to drill holes in the cdx and use #4 bar through the gates ties.

Is this a good method, or should I consider something else.

All advice is appreciated.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I am confused on your dimensions.
We would never be able to sacrete a wall like that.

What is the dimension left to right?

How far out of the ground?
' 
By your picture it does not look 6' tall.

Snap ties....


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

griz said:


> I am confused on your dimensions.
> We would never be able to sacrete a wall like that.
> 
> What is the dimension left to right?
> ...


Snap ties and MULE Pu**ies  or Johny A's.


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

I've always had good results with making a sheathed wall/ studded frame 24" OC and braced to the house at the top (or diagonally braced to driven form spikes inside the hole) tied together at the top with a few blocks that can be removed for finish after initial set and driven form spikes on the bottom outside edge to hold the bottom from kicking out after digging down 6" more then finish grade to hide the ugly.

Clear as mud right? If we were onsite I'd draw a picture in 2 seconds and it would be divine. :no:


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Sorry, 
That picture is stoopit, we have dug down to the footer, and will form and pour a footer at the same height as existing footer. Our counterfort (Deadman) will be 6' up from that. The top of the deadman will be below grade. About 24" below the sill plate.


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

now I know why you wanted the Ferrari of nail guns. :laughing:


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

WWW, your method is clear, and simple. 
I've been trying to think how a concrete guy would do it, but maybe your method would be simpler for my crew's skill set.

Ninja,
If there is something I can buy locally, that sounds good to me. But when I went to Whitecap, almost all of the ties they sold only worked with proprietary wall systems. I was hoping there was tie & wedge system that was affordable and simple.

I have no idea what Mule Pu**ies or Johnny A's are, but they sound like fun:thumbup:


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

I have a perfectly good Max Framing gun that is 12 years old, and works great. 

None of my crew will use it because they all bring their own Hitachis. I figured I might as well join them, because after five years, they aint changing, and I'm tired of keeping two different brands of nails around.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Why sack it? PUMP TRUCK??


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Just hired a new laborer. Wanna see if I can make him cry:laughing:

No, in all seriousness, I want to pour immediately after we pass our steel inspection, I would have to pay extra for a short load, and I want to place the concrete slowly, since we are all rookie concrete guys. 

Around here we cannot schedule specific inspection times. Inspector can show up anytime between 9am and 4pm, and License holder or certificate holding supervisor has to be present for the inspection. This is a very annoying aspect of inspections in our area.


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Here's a pic of the last one of these we built a few years ago. I'd post the pic of the formwork, but it's too embarassing. :no:


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

I'm formin a wall tomorrow I'll show ya what a mule pus*y and Johny clamp is


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

If I get a donkey dick from my plumber will it work with your mule pus*y? :laughing:


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

Gates ties work well. Nail a 2x4 to your footer as a kicker (one side only) tack your plywood to it. At the top of your plywood nail another 2x4 to keep your top straight and to attach your braces. Run your ties with the bars horizontal, closer up and let er rip.


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

If you lived closer I have a real nice rebar cutter/bender that would make your life much easier. When you start doing more of these you might want to look into one.


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

You want nice.... get the Hitachi bender cutter.... now thats the life... best decision ever.... ever.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

There is not ONE foundation contractor in your area? Seems to me your time would be a lot better served buying that man coffee than trying to figure out forming on the fly.

Not saying it has to be subbed out but in this case I could see it being a lot more efficient.

The time you have spent typing on this thread, a good foundation guy would have this thing set. A great one would be stripping the forms...


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

New home construction and commercial construction are both going nuts in our area. 

Even getting somebody to look at the inconvenient small jobs has been ridiculously hard, across all the trades.

My typing was done after hours, speaking of which, now I gotta get to work.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Don't over think it. I would not use those ties on a 6' high pour. Use cone ties with whalers. Don't bother framing walls, put down a sill, put your plywood in the corner so it holds itself, slip some studs in, run em wild who cares, run your ties and walers and brace. Forming done right should have minimal cutting! Concrete doesn't care what the form looks like, framed, long studs.. as long as it holds (well) you won't have problems. Theres times to be fussy and times not to. Forming is one of those things that you need to find a balance in. If you are not fussy with certain things you will have trouble on your hands, if you are too fussy..well thats just a waste of time and money. :thumbsup:


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

FramingPro said:


> Don't over think it. I would not use those ties on a 6' high pour. Use cone ties with whalers. Don't bother framing walls, put down a sill, put your plywood in the corner so it holds itself, slip some studs in, run em wild who cares, run your ties and walers and brace. Forming done right should have minimal cutting! Concrete doesn't care what the form looks like, framed, long studs.. as long as it holds (well) you won't have problems. Theres times to be fussy and times not to. Forming is one of those things that you need to find a balance in. If you are not fussy with certain things you will have trouble on your hands, if you are too fussy..well thats just a waste of time and money. :thumbsup:


Nice pictures. I have done alot over the years where we just used the double whalers, walls still come out looking good. This type of system is pretty much old school forming any more . IMO it was still a good one though, just alot of lumber was used. I can still remember the shiplap subfllor material being use for forming. :thumbsup:


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