# Mastic on shower walls



## Inner10

jarvis design said:


> Really?? We are having THIS discussion AGAIN??
> 
> If you use mastic in a shower/tub surround, you are lazy and have no desire to do the best job you can.
> 
> Do you realize by doing inferior tile installs you are hurting the entire tile industry?
> 
> Some homeowners have a belief that tile showers and tub surrounds will always fail.
> This is one reason companies like bathfitter, etc., are doing so well! They use your crap work against us all.
> 
> With today's readily available materials, their is only one reason a tile installation should be ripped out...someone doesn't like the look. Not because the tiles are loose or cracked or the grout is falling out/impossible to clean or the shower is leaking or full of mould/mildew.
> 
> Are we done yet?


On one hand it hurts the tile industry but on the other hand it is job security for the tile industry...


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## kevjob

Do whatever the hell you want but dont think just because you do its right and that we will pat you on the back for doing a half assed job. :thumbsup:


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## mrcharles

No one has yet to provide any back up other than personal bias. I will concede that thinset is a better install, but that does not mean mastic does not work and hold the tile in place. 

Provide me with some engineering, a test report, or some solid data to conclude that mastic does not work. So far Angus showed me a picture of twenty year old tile that was still in place, with a substrate failure. I still don't think the mastic failed, but the drywall did (I still think the valve leaked by the way the drywall was damaged). 

On my high end installs I do use thinset, but if I'm installing some home depot 3"x 6" 22 cent tiles then I have no problem using mastic because the tile will fail before the mastic does.


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## Inner10

Why use it if it is more expensive than thinset and inferior? What's the attraction no bucket to wash?


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## CO762

mrcharles said:


> No one has yet to provide any back up other than personal bias.


A lot of people have a mantra of "read the directions", also "follow instructions". 

http://www.mapei.com/public/COM/products/Type1_TDS_EA.pdf



> On my high end installs I do use thinset, but if I'm installing some home depot 3"x 6" 22 cent tiles then I have no problem using mastic because the tile will fail before the mastic does.


I've used mastic on shower walls in multi million dollar homes and used thinset on a 70K condo's shower wall. I guess I read directions.


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## thom

CO762 said:


> A lot of people have a mantra of "read the directions", also "follow instructions".
> 
> http://www.mapei.com/public/COM/products/Type1_TDS_EA.pdf


After reading that, I presume most of the posters on this thread will respond that mapei is a hack company producing products for hacks. 

Either way, I've never seen a mastic failure. I've never seen mastic liquify after it has cured. I've removed tile in showers that were installed with mastic, it seems to me it holds just as well as thinset. Personally I see no difference. They both do the job. 

I have seen plenty of failures, some in houses only a year old. Every time the failure was the backing, drywall or greenboard. Typically it's at the valve. I believe it's generally because the cover plate does not properly seal to the tile, allowing water to enter behind the coverplate then, over time, saturate and destroy the sheetrock backer.


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## CO762

jarvis design said:


> Really?? We are having THIS discussion AGAIN??
> 
> If you use mastic in a shower/tub surround, you are lazy and have no desire to do the best job you can.


We probably discuss this so often because people like you are too lazy to read the directions. :laughing: I don't know if they have pictures though..... 



> Do you realize by doing inferior tile installs you


Oh buddha, not this again... 



> Some homeowners have a belief that tile showers and tub surrounds will always fail.


And a few days ago I spoke with what seemed to be a honcho for a big company that (he said) is getting a lot of large projects. His nomenclature made me think he didn't know what he was doing and didn't have the experience he kept telling me he had. He's always doing the latest and greatest internet product and his counter had some orange products he doesn't even stock. His sales pitch is linking the prospect to the manufacturer's website. :laughing: Fluking clown.

Presently, I'm doing a commercial job and another person on that site used to be in the construction industry in the sales end of it. That person loves to tell me all about how things work. Yeah, only OEM school training, never actually worked, much less worked with many different materials from many different manufacturers. 

Another (former) sales rep (tile) mentioned how I should be using some underlayment (of some goofy type I guess) and it was related to me that when ya drop something on the tile using this wunderlayment, it's less likely to break. I was in such disbelief that I didn't bother to ask if the tile or the object wouldn't be broken. Oh, this was just before I was told that "all grout cracks".

For some reason, I've taken to viewing the tile trade on par with the vitamin/supplement marketing industry.................



> With today's readily available materials, their is only one reason a tile installation should be ripped out...someone doesn't like the look. Not because the tiles are loose or cracked or the grout is falling out/impossible to clean or the shower is leaking or full of mould/mildew.
> 
> Are we done yet?


Nope. I bet I could build a shower on plain drywall using mastic and have it last more than 30 years. (But I'm sort of a trades guy, specifically in this trade for a lil while). Would I recommend a homeowner/diy/handyman/carpenter/electrician/etc. do it? Nope. I'd tell them to hire a tile professional.

Holy Obama! Just thought of something: I have a spare shower in the basement at home that I just may do that with. Come to think of it, that may not be a bad idea as I'm going to change the layout, but that'll take moving rooms, etc, so I've not done it yet. I may just do a quickie with that using drywall and mastic and let 'er ride. We'll see how my winter slow months turn out.


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## CO762

thom said:


> After reading that, I presume most of the posters on this thread will respond that mapei is a hack company producing products for hacks.


:laughing: :clap: 

As the rest of your experience with failures.....by jove, I think you just may be on to something.....

Homeowners/DIY types reading this, please don't do what we are talking about. You're too ignorant--really, not in a bad way, just look up that definition to know what I'm talking about.


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## ohiohomedoctor

angus242 said:


> Great, now with Inner10's next project leftover mastic, he's gonna make some Chia-mastic-pet bobble heads.


I want one.


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## tileman2000

Mastic bad....thinset good.


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## angus242

If you haven't seen mastic fail, you haven't worked in enough homes.

I already stated the position of TCNA over manufacturer recommendations.

Again, throw the dice or go with something there is no question about.

DUH


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## ohiohomedoctor

But it comes in a pink bucket... 

I havent used that crap in years..


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## angus242

I'm sure there are a lot of things that come in a pink bucket.


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## mrcharles

Inner10 said:


> Why use it if it is more expensive than thinset and inferior? What's the attraction no bucket to wash?


For me it is faster and cleaner.


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## angus242

And possibly a point for failure...but oh well.


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## mrcharles

angus242 said:


> If you haven't seen mastic fail, you haven't worked in enough homes.
> 
> I already stated the position of TCNA over manufacturer recommendations.
> 
> 
> DUH




No you didn't..... Please provide a reference to back up claims.


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## angus242

I don't need to. There are _many, many_ reported failures on the internet alone. 

Get a copy of the TCNA Handbook and prove _me _wrong.


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## mrcharles

angus242 said:


> I don't need to. There are _many, many_ reported failures on the internet alone.
> 
> Get a copy of the TCNA Handbook and prove _me _wrong.




Composition 101... you need to site your sources. You are the one who mentioned TCNA, but no one has provided anything substantial to stand on.... with the exception of the picture of the drywall that failed.... Which I'm sure that tile was soft as he**, and had achieved its lifespan.


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## tileman2000

I don't need references or links to anything. After 20 something years I've seen enough to draw my own conclusion.

If you want to use mastic by all means carry on.


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## jarvis design

CO762 said:


> We probably discuss this so often because people like you are too lazy to read the directions. :laughing: I don't know if they have pictures though.....
> 
> Oh buddha, not this again...
> 
> And a few days ago I spoke with what seemed to be a honcho for a big company that (he said) is getting a lot of large projects. His nomenclature made me think he didn't know what he was doing and didn't have the experience he kept telling me he had. He's always doing the latest and greatest internet product and his counter had some orange products he doesn't even stock. His sales pitch is linking the prospect to the manufacturer's website. :laughing: Fluking clown.
> 
> Presently, I'm doing a commercial job and another person on that site used to be in the construction industry in the sales end of it. That person loves to tell me all about how things work. Yeah, only OEM school training, never actually worked, much less worked with many different materials from many different manufacturers.
> 
> Another (former) sales rep (tile) mentioned how I should be using some underlayment (of some goofy type I guess) and it was related to me that when ya drop something on the tile using this wunderlayment, it's less likely to break. I was in such disbelief that I didn't bother to ask if the tile or the object wouldn't be broken. Oh, this was just before I was told that "all grout cracks".
> 
> For some reason, I've taken to viewing the tile trade on par with the vitamin/supplement marketing industry.................
> 
> Nope. I bet I could build a shower on plain drywall using mastic and have it last more than 30 years. (But I'm sort of a trades guy, specifically in this trade for a lil while). Would I recommend a homeowner/diy/handyman/carpenter/electrician/etc. do it? Nope. I'd tell them to hire a tile professional.
> 
> Holy Obama! Just thought of something: I have a spare shower in the basement at home that I just may do that with. Come to think of it, that may not be a bad idea as I'm going to change the layout, but that'll take moving rooms, etc, so I've not done it yet. I may just do a quickie with that using drywall and mastic and let 'er ride. We'll see how my winter slow months turn out.


You build your showers however you see fit. I've ripped out and rebuilt hundreds of tub surrounds and showers built by stubborn fools like yourself who "think" they know better. Normal drywall and mastic? Last 30 years? Ok then...


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## GO Remodeling

Mr. C,
A quick review of Chris Wrights' post "tile installation failures in high end remodel" might be a good place to start your conversion. Just about every kind of failure happened on that job. And on all kinds of substrates.


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## CO762

jarvis design said:


> You build your showers however you see fit.


Why thank you. :thumbsup: Where have you been all my life (internet excluded)..... :laughing:


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## angus242

mrcharles said:


> Composition 101...


Tiling 101: Don't use mastic in wet locations. 

Even an untrained DIYer can get an industry reference and read for themselves. 

How about you show me the recommendation of 1....ONE reputable tile installer that will endorse the use of mastic in a wet location.


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## ROVACON

Inner10 said:


> Why use it if it is more expensive than thinset and inferior? What's the attraction no bucket to wash?


Those damn, dirty thinset buckets :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate

mrcharles said:


> No one has yet to provide any back up other than personal bias. I will concede that thinset is a better install, but that does not mean mastic does not work and hold the tile in place.
> 
> Provide me with some engineering, a test report, or some solid data to conclude that mastic does not work. So far Angus showed me a picture of twenty year old tile that was still in place, with a substrate failure. I still don't think the mastic failed, but the drywall did (I still think the valve leaked by the way the drywall was damaged).
> 
> On my high end installs I do use thinset, but if I'm installing some home depot 3"x 6" 22 cent tiles then I have no problem using mastic because the tile will fail before the mastic does.


Fair enough, so tell me again the benefit of using mastic on a cheaper install? You want an engineering report on thinset, can you provide proof that mastic is cheaper and easier?

Cuz, I cannot think of a single or collective savings that would justify using an inferior product (and that's by your own admission).


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## CO762

TNTSERVICES said:


> Fair enough, so tell me again the benefit of using mastic on a cheaper install?


What's a "cheaper install"?



> can you provide proof that mastic is cheaper and easier?


Premixed anything is always easier. I also think this is why a lot of non tile people use it--they don't have to spend $300 for a mixer, much less know anything about different consistencies. Hell, or even read directions.... :laughing:
But what do you mean by "cheaper"?



> Cuz, I cannot think of a single or collective savings that would justify using an inferior product


I can think of a lot of reasons to use a lot of different products. I guess it depends upon the job.

I think sometimes we are captives of our ownselves.


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## Inner10

CO762 said:


> What's a "cheaper install"?
> 
> 
> Premixed anything is always easier. I also think this is why a lot of non tile people use it--they don't have to spend $300 for a mixer, much less know anything about different consistencies. Hell, or even read directions.... :laughing:
> But what do you mean by "cheaper"?
> 
> 
> I can think of a lot of reasons to use a lot of different products. I guess it depends upon the job.
> 
> I think sometimes we are captives of our ownselves.


$300 dollars for a mixer? Mine was 14 bucks at home depot...:whistling


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## CO762

ROVACON said:


> Those damn, dirty thinset buckets :laughing:


 I think there's a dumpster for that. If drywallers/painters are around, all the moreso.........


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## angus242

I used a $15 Craftsman hammer drill for 7 years.


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## CO762

Inner10 said:


> $300 dollars for a mixer? Mine was 14 bucks at home depot...:whistling


Holy Obama! I missed another big box selloff!


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## TNTRenovate

CO762 said:


> What's a "cheaper install"?
> 
> If you don't know the definition of cheap, then nothing I can say will help you comprehend the term. But I'll try, off lesser quality, again, by his own admission thinset is a better product and he uses it on his "high end" jobs.
> 
> Premixed anything is always easier.
> 
> How so? I mean in what way is it easier? Becuase you don't spend time mixing, again what is the cost benefit. How much do you really save mixing a few buckets of mud? An hour? Two?I also think this is why a lot of non tile people use it--they don't have to spend $300 for a mixer, much less know anything about different consistencies. Mixers? Why do you need a mixer. A good drill (which we all have), and a $20 mixing paddle.Hell, or even read directions.... :laughing:
> But what do you mean by "cheaper"? Again, of lesser quality. You should know that there is a difference when something is less expensive or cheaper.
> 
> 
> I can think of a lot of reasons to use a lot of different products. I guess it depends upon the job.
> 
> I think sometimes we are captives of our ownselves.


I think that sounds like a lot of crap. Sorry, it's what people say when they have to justify their actions when they have little to stand on. I can remove a tile installed with mastic with a 5 in one. I need a cold chisel to remove the same tile over the same substrate when thinset is used.


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## CO762

angus242 said:


> I used a $15 Craftsman hammer drill for 7 years.


So this isn't a joke?
What kinda mixers are ya'll talking about? the cheapest ones I've found were the BDs that went for $60 and they'd last about 2-3 months. They were great because if they were stolen, it was no loss. I'd have a couple of them on hand, but to be honest (don't ya hate that expression?), I've found they are too slow for production work and can't handle the heavier mixes. I've found the cheapies were better for finishers though.
YMMV.


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## TNTRenovate

CO762 said:


> So this isn't a joke?
> What kinda mixers are ya'll talking about? the cheapest ones I've found were the BDs that went for $60 and they'd last about 2-3 months. They were great because if they were stolen, it was no loss. I'd have a couple of them on hand, but to be honest (don't ya hate that expression?), I've found they are too slow for production work and can't handle the heavier mixes. I've found the cheapies were better for finishers though.
> YMMV.


I have a Bosch Hammer drill that I use to mix. That's not it's only job, so there was no need to buy a separate mixer. I also just bought the $20 mixing blade which resembles a bakers mixing machine blade. Before the Bosch it was a Craftsman 1/2hp drill.


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## mrcharles

TNTSERVICES said:


> Fair enough, so tell me again the benefit of using mastic on a cheaper install? You want an engineering report on thinset, can you provide proof that mastic is cheaper and easier?
> 
> Cuz, I cannot think of a single or collective savings that would justify using an inferior product (and that's by your own admission).



Depends on what you value your time at. The time savings for me outweigh the cost of mastic. (I think I paid $38 for a 3 gallon most recently)


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## TNTRenovate

mrcharles said:


> Depends on what you value your time at. The time savings for me outweigh the cost of mastic. (I think I paid $38 for a 3 gallon most recently)


Why don't people answer the question? You can get two bags of Ultraflex1 for less than that.

And no it depends on what YOU value your time at. I have already made it clear that I don't think it is worth using an inferior product to save an hour on a shower.

So the question still remains, please provide us with actual data and facts on what you save. Until you provide that, there is no reason to continue the conversation. :thumbsup:


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## CO762

Holy Moly Rob, you do like to argue. I've got rasberries on my fingertips, but killed the rest of the tequila, so I'm feeling no pain typing. And not much is on TV.



TNTSERVICES said:


> If you don't know the definition of cheap, then nothing I can say will help you comprehend the term. But I'll try, off lesser quality, again, by his own admission thinset is a better product and he uses it on his "high end" jobs.


So all high end jobs are stone and not porcelain or (barf barf) ceramic?
And if someone uses porcelain, or the ghetto ceramic on a high dollar unit, it's therefore a cheap job?

I do know cheap--that's why I don't do ceramic. :laughing:
I have been getting into more porcelain tho. I've always thought porcelain was cheap too, but not as ghetto as ceramic. Some porcelain though is pretty, well ceramic, aka cheap. 



> [Premixed anything is always easier.]
> 
> How so? I mean in what way is it easier?


Get out of thinking of going into a single family unit and doing their shower while they are at work. 



> Becuase you don't spend time mixing, again what is the cost benefit.


Now we're getting somewhere.............



> I can remove a tile installed with mastic with a 5 in one. I need a cold chisel to remove the same tile over the same substrate when thinset is used.


sounds good to me. 
So how do you prevent your cold chisel from gouging/going through the substrate?


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## Inner10

Cleaning buckets really sucks.


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## TNTRenovate

CO762 said:


> Holy Moly Rob, you do like to argue. I've got rasberries on my fingertips, but killed the rest of the tequila, so I'm feeling no pain typing. And not much is on TV.
> 
> Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? Unless you don't respond I will assume that you only know because you do as well.
> 
> 
> So all high end jobs are stone and not porcelain or (barf barf) ceramic?
> And if someone uses porcelain, or the ghetto ceramic on a high dollar unit, it's therefore a cheap job? Yes, If I put Cavalier motor in a Jag it's a cheap car. There is no way to waterproof the shower using mastic. So your high end job just became a cheap high end job.
> 
> I do know cheap--that's why I don't do ceramic. :laughing:
> I have been getting into more porcelain tho. I've always thought porcelain was cheap too, but not as ghetto as ceramic. Some porcelain though is pretty, well ceramic, aka cheap.
> 
> 
> Get out of thinking of going into a single family unit and doing their shower while they are at work.
> 
> ? Not sure what you are talking about. I can mix mud any where with anyone around. A shop vac clamped to the bucket rim and you are golden. Again, not knowing how to make it profitable and it not being profitable are two different things. Get out of thinking that because I don't know how to do it, therefore it can't be done mentality.
> 
> Now we're getting somewhere.............
> 
> But where is that? So you save how much? Mastic begins to chunk up when exposed to air. How you handle that? Do you just smear them on the wall and allow them to leave large areas without an even coat?
> 
> sounds good to me.
> So how do you prevent your cold chisel from gouging/going through the substrate?


Why do I need to? The point was good adhesion verses great adhesion. A cheap product versus a superior product. I await your non-argumentative response.


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## TNTRenovate

Inner10 said:


> Cleaning buckets really sucks.


Any job sucks if you don't know the tricks. Cleaning tools sucks, if you don't know the tricks. I used to hate doing drywall, until, you guessed it, I learned the tricks. Can't say that I love it, but I don't dread it any more.


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## WarnerConstInc.

He's back.....


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## CO762

TNTSERVICES said:


> Why don't people answer the question?


Damned Rob, don't ya know I'm out of tequila?
I think I gotta beer in the fridge tho.


> So the question still remains, please provide us with actual data and facts on what you save.


Time and projected use. I've done an obamaload of guest bathrooms that rarely get used...and other details. The main units were done with thinset and the other ones were mostly done using mastic.
FWIW, I did see some GC's mexicans using mastic in a steam room. Didn't say anything there, nor did I say anything when I saw them not doing the clamp on drains right either..... :laughing: I did find out the failed and a company went bankrupt, but that's another story..........................


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## angus242

I can't believe the thought of mixing thinset would actually waver someone to buy premixed? What's next, lasers on jigsaws because chalking a line takes too long? Maybe battery powered adjustable wrenches because it takes to long to adjust by hand?

Oh wait, now I get it:
http://www.harborfreight.com/laser-guided-orbital-jigsaw-92772.html
http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/AAW100.aspx


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## CO762

> A cheap product versus a superior product. I await your non-argumentative response.


You're correct--use kerdi on everything. No use in using a cheaper product. Don't be lazy or cheap or use inferior products.
Been watching "river monsters" as I was typing this. Interesting stuff and he caught a HUGE catfish. Now, off to get that beer.........


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## CO762

angus242 said:


> I can't believe the thought of mixing thinset would actually waver someone to buy premixed?


Hope and change....OK....believe....OK, bad analogy.
Yeah, in new construction water availability may be an issue...and hauling buckets of water a long ways for a...well "read the directions/instructions", aka data sheet. 



> What's next, lasers on jigsaws because chalking a line takes too long?


Who uses jigsaws to cut long cuts?  But I agree, chalkboxes are for low tech sissies. :laughing:



> Maybe battery powered adjustable wrenches because it takes to long to adjust by hand?


Who used crescent wrenches anymore? Heck, if I have to use a socket, it's the second thing I grab after the impact.  
I be lazy, don't taze me bro!!!!!


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## angus242

CO762 said:


> Yeah, in new construction water availability may be an issue...and hauling buckets of water a long ways for a...


So the solution is to use mastic and don't bother grouting?

I'm really starting to understand now :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate

CO762 said:


> You're correct--use kerdi on everything. No use in using a cheaper product. Don't be lazy or cheap or use inferior products.
> Been watching "river monsters" as I was typing this. Interesting stuff and he caught a HUGE catfish. Now, off to get that beer.........


I use Aqua Defense (*ON EVERY SINGLE TUB OR SHOWER, no matter how much the tile cost!*), but if you prefer Kerdi, go right ahead. But you must use some form of water proofing no matter what you use to adhere your tiles to the substrate...oh wait, you can't use mastic on any water proofing.....nevermind.


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## Floormasta78

After waterproof , I'll be using two pink buckets of mastic here !!


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## Floormasta78

But TO STAND ON.. LOL ! 

I'm a professional , not a hack


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## CO762

angus242 said:


> So the solution is to use mastic and don't bother grouting?


There are people for that. But even if it's a one person tile crew....new construction where there are many units, say condos/townhomes, three baths per unit, 4 units per building and the water is three buildings away...........I know I didn't even count kitchens, foyers, or decks.....

And I'm not even counting where water is guarded by the GC for a variety for reasons...or well, one has to go to the hydrant and get it, but the GC shut it off. Store water in your unit? Mexican painters/drywallers will use it and/or clean their obama in it.

Etc. Lots of reasons I guess..........But what the heck do I know....


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## GO Remodeling

Orlando,
I thought you were a Laticrete guy. Then a Mapei guy. Now a Customs guy? You flip faster than Romney. What are you using next week? TEC?


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## world llc

olzo55 said:


> Orlando,
> I thought you were a Laticrete guy. Then a Mapei guy. Now a Customs guy? You flip faster than Romney. What are you using next week? TEC?


i think that red thing is a vinyl liner :whistling


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## Inner10

world llc said:


> i think that red thing is a vinyl liner :whistling


You've never seen how smooth a mexican can trowel on red guard eh?









Well neither have I...:whistling


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## Floormasta78

Lol.. It's a liner.. Not customs.

Really guys, I'm really getting over this Laticrete fad.. I'm showers it seems that the orange stuff is more profitable in all aspects. Especially turn around time.. I'm done with all that hydro crap.. I'll still stick with their thinset and other things.. But from niches to drains .. They suck.


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## Inner10

Floormasta78 said:


> Lol.. It's a liner.. Not customs.
> 
> Really guys, I'm really getting over this Laticrete fad.. I'm showers it seems that the orange stuff is more profitable in all aspects. Especially turn around time.. I'm done with all that hydro crap.. I'll still stick with their thinset and other things.. But from niches to drains .. They suck.


What's with the grinder pic? I have the same one but with less thinset on it. :laughing:


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## Floormasta78

Those stupid Laticrete niches are always too thick.. I always have to do some modification.. But my good friends have been putting me on to using Kerdi board.. I'm on board. Get it


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## Inner10

Floormasta78 said:


> Those stupid Laticrete niches are always too thick.. I always have to do some modification.. But my good friends have been putting me on to using Kerdi board.. I'm on board. Get it


Why not do it the Angus way and make them out of rigid foam and adhesive? Cheaper than orange board.


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## world llc

.... read post 96......


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## world llc

i'll take a pic of the foam niche tomorrow


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## CO762

OK, a little more time now, but the only interest is for my amusement, and to some others. 



> Tiling 101: Don't use mastic in wet locations.
> 
> Even an untrained DIYer can get an industry reference and read for themselves.





> This statement is from the technical director of the Tile Council of North America:
> "The tile industry neither condones or recommends mastic or greenboard in wet areas.





> Does the TCNA approve certain methods?
> 
> The TCNA does not approve nor disapprove methods. As you know, the Tile Council of North America publishes the TCA Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installation. However, as the Handbook secretariat we do not create these details - rather, they are the work of the Handbook Committee, a representative group of experts in the ceramic tile industry. This group meets to share knowledge, problem, solutions, and research. When there are conflicting opinions, the Handbook may not have a solution as it reflects consensus views and generally accepted procedures. Also, the Handbook does not contain proprietary methods. As the secretariat, we record and publish the consensus of these experts.
> There are many proprietary methods on the market that are well regarded and backed by their manufacturers. In many cases, proprietary methods and products have been developed to address special conditions or to utilize new technology. These methods will not be in the TCA Handbook but may work quite well when used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.


One last sentence from that one is this:



> *To find out if any method is appropriate for certain conditions and to find out warranty and application information, you will want to speak with the manufacturer. *


So I guess carpenters, wire pullers, and people that go from a different product/manufacturer to different product/manufacturer every other week, swearing how great each one is the time....know better than, say Mapei?

Maybe all ya'll professionals/part timers/hobbyists/experimenters should send your resume to Mapei as you could be off your knees (part time for most of you) and get a 6 figure easy job at Mapei, telling them how it's really done and how they don't know what they're doing?

Or maybe all these 'professionals' just don't actually read and understand manufacturer's info?

And during the schluter-gasming going on here, it was all about 'warranty', only using the same orange stuff so you can also SELL the customer on their warranty. And of course all those not reading the manufacture's directions and following the warranty to a T are 'hacks'.

Yet now people are using all sorts of different products in shower installs, even taking scrap foam and glueing together niches in their basement for their installs?

This internet stuff is really amusing.

So now are we all at the end of the "product x is THE only thing professionals use!"? Or can we start the BS cycle all over again?


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## Inner10

CO762 said:


> OK, a little more time now, but the only interest is for my amusement, and to some others.
> 
> 
> 
> One last sentence from that one is this:
> 
> So I guess carpenters, wire pullers, and people that go from a different product/manufacturer to different product/manufacturer every other week, swearing how great each one as the time....know better than, say Mapei?
> 
> Maybe all ya'll professionals/experimenters should send your resume to Mapei as you could be off your knees (part time for most of you) and get a 6 figure easy job at Mapei, telling them how it's really done and how they don't know what they're doing?
> 
> Or maybe all these 'professionals' just don't actually read and understand manufacturer's info?
> 
> And during the schluter-gasming going on here, it was all about 'warranty', only using the same orange stuff so you can also SELL the customer on their warranty. And of course all those not reading the manufacture's directions and following the warranty to a T are 'hacks'.
> 
> Yet now people are using all sorts of different products in shower installs, even taking scrap foam and glueing together niches in their basement for their installs?
> 
> This internet stuff is really amusing.
> 
> So now are we all at the end of the "product x is THE only thing professionals use!"? Or can we start the BS cycle all over again?


Yeah I know everything. :whistling


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## Floormasta78

I could, yessssss , I could.. The color is much easier on the eye


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## angus242

Haha!


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## Floormasta78

I've used it a few times.. I did like it..


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## Groutface

Awwww.....I wanna use it now....more expensive than kerdi?


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## angus242

Similar in price for me. Maybe a few pennies more.

The real fun of using NobleSeal is installing it with NobleBond EXT. That is more expense than thinset but daym does it stick. Don't get it on your hands :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor

Blue is my favorite color.. I used the Noble sheets once. Much thicker than kerdi.


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## angus242

Actually, my supplier (Daltile) sells their own branded version and it's still orange...


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## ohiohomedoctor

Huh. Im sure schluter loves that. We get noble stuff from our local Florida Tile.


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