# Illegal Immigrates



## zcrazypainter (Jun 9, 2006)

I do not know about other states, but here in Middle Tn.
I am continously losing job bids to mexicans! Does anyone else have this problem


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## Rich Wozny (Aug 18, 2005)

Ya dude the problem is nationwide, try bidding work at union wages and benes, when you got contractors hiring day labor for $8.00 an hour.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

This is a legitimate problem almost all of us have to deal with
I'd like to see a helpful discussion on how to deal with the situation
Please keep this thread non-political and non-bashing, or it's gone


It's tough
We have a large population of Brazilians here, most of whom are illegal
They will paint your room for $100, I just saw an ad for $36 a room for ceilings
That is mind-bogglingly cheap for out here (cost of living is very high)
I did not have to deal with this before I relocated here, but I had the "Drunk Guy With A Brush Part-Time Painting Co." and "Crackhead Sometimes Painters"
It's best not to compete with them
There will always be someone hungrier or more desperate
Always

Yes, it's tough to watch jobs fly by because you couldn't or wouldn't lower your price
But is a customer buying services on price alone really a good customer to have?
They certainly won't purchase your services again if someone new comes along that's cheaper

Someone shopping for services on price alone should not be your target customer
It is the worst type of customer to have

It's a much better idea to seek out a better customer


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## simmons (Mar 21, 2006)

THIS IS BETTER THAN TWO CUPS OF COFFEE!!!!
Here in SO CAL we've experienced the full effect of twenty plus years of immigration pressure on the industry.When I was a spry 18yr old ,my first job with a legitimate painting co.,starting wages- 14.36/hr,paid vacation(two weeks after the first year),med, dental,vis.and profit sharing -oh yeah retirement too! Here we are twenty five years later-a non-union journeyman is lucky to make 20/hr -benefits? yeah right..
I'm living in a pretty upscale golf and waterfront community so luckily I've been able to establish a good clientelle for repaints. But the business goes to sleep from Thanksgiving to March. It would be great to do a few new construction jobs, but good luck competing with these guys. A gc stopped by one of my jobs and wanted to know if i was intersted in bidding a couple of his homes--his friendly painter from down south isn't getting everything perfect. But what the hell -pedro,s only gettin 1.68/ft!!! The going rate for track homes out here 20yrs ago was 2.00/ft. Now we've got gc's who demand two tones with ten foot ceilings for less than they've ever been painted for,with the highest home prices in history. And that goes for almost all the trades. These guys will sometimes have six guys on a paint job ,sun up to sun down on Sundays and Holidays. I'm so fed up trying to compete with these guys, if someone can build the wall--I'll paint it.....


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## FCPWLLC (Jun 1, 2006)

This is a letter floating around supposedly sent to Senator Frist.

"Dear Senator Frist: 

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens. 

#1. 
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. 

Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing, and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price. 

#2. 
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage. 

#3. 
Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than $20 billion sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and, therefore, assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children. 

#4. 
Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents. 

#5. 
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another. 

#6. 
The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined. 

#7 
There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end. 

#8. 
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I, Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S.; During World War II, Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico; During the Cold War, Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today, Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, checkout some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren. 

#9. 
Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to break the law and trash another nation? 

#10. 
There is a labor shortage in this country? This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage. 

#11. 
It is racist to want secure borders? What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? 

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. 

There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves." 

David J. Stoddard 
U.S. Border Patrol (RET) 
Hereford, Arizona


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

slickshift said:


> ...Please keep this thread non-political...


Yeah, good luck with that.  
As long as politics controls the outcome, any discussion that lacks a political context is little more than exercising the vocal chords.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

PipeGuy said:


> Yeah, good luck with that.
> As long as politics controls the outcome, any discussion that lacks a political context is little more than exercising the vocal chords.


Yeah not that I don't think it won't degenerate....as it already is on it's way...

But:
It's possible to discuss this as a business problem in a normal non-inflammatory way

See The Post:


slickshift said:


> We have a large population of Brazilians here, most of whom are illegal
> They will paint your room for $100, I just saw an ad for $36 a room for ceilings
> That is mind-bogglingly cheap for out here (cost of living is very high)
> I did not have to deal with this before I relocated here, but I had the "Drunk Guy With A Brush Part-Time Painting Co." and "Crackhead Sometimes Painters"
> ...


It is what it is
Evolve or die

If you feel politics is the answer, use your vote
...as much as it seems they don't, technically they do work for us
If you feel the American Consumer is the problem, educate them
If you feel it's the American Businessperson that's the problem, tell them how to be profitable w/o hiring illegals

If you want to post up _how_ to vote someone out of office, that's fine
If you want to post up _how_ to educate a consumer, that's fine
If you want to post up _how_ to be profitable by paying legals fair wages, that's fine

But I see no reason for meaningless political or racist rants that do nothing to convince anyone "on the other side" of anything except that "the other side is a bunch of idiots" and inflame those on "this side"


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

IBTL 

:thumbup:


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

ProWallGuy said:


> IBTL


basically, yeah
...lol

:tank:


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## Rich Wozny (Aug 18, 2005)

Without talking politics, this tread is going nowhere, very fast...


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## rws (Nov 26, 2004)

This is much more than a business problem.Its a very emotionial issue for lots of us.People need to vent.Very hard to remember the goal is to drain the swamp when your up to your ass in alligators.


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## copusbuilder (Nov 8, 2005)

Slickshift wrote:
This is a legitimate problem almost all of us have to deal with
I'd like to see a helpful discussion on how to deal with the situation
Please keep this thread non-political and non-bashing, or it's gone

Hmm, Should we all smile, hold hands and sing a few religous hymns:notworthy 

It is a disgustingly huge problem here in Texas. 
Latinos have taken over as the largest student population in Texas public schools. 
Latinos want to work for other latino contractors and not white contractors (unless we speak their language).
Keep in mind these are illegal immigrants. 
I could go on but am a slow typer.
I am not pleased and do write to our candy assed politicians and remind them constantly. 

The solution is simple. Enforce the existing laws? 

That being said,, I would like to aploligize if I have insulted any ethnic, religous, gay or lesbian, politcal, vertically challenged, or loving liberal


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## ukpaul (Nov 21, 2005)

For me, it looks like i am going to up sticks and leave the US due to all the red tape in trying to stay here....
I have been running my business here for the last 14 months and things are going real well....People here just can't find any decent tradesmen (till i came along)....Problem for me is that for me to stay I need to really build the co. up so that I oversee a manager/ supervisor and employees.....This ain't ever gonna happen here....I can't even find 1 decent painter let alone maybe 5 or 10 or more !
I am willing to give it a real go here but it doesn't look like I am going to be alowed to.......
Paul.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I like rws' assement even if he's never seen a 'gator, swamp or anything else. From an old swamper.


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## copusbuilder (Nov 8, 2005)

ukpaul said:


> For me, it looks like i am going to up sticks and leave the US due to all the red tape in trying to stay here....
> I have been running my business here for the last 14 months and things are going real well....People here just can't find any decent tradesmen (till i came along)....Problem for me is that for me to stay I need to really build the co. up so that I oversee a manager/ supervisor and employees.....This ain't ever gonna happen here....I can't even find 1 decent painter let alone maybe 5 or 10 or more !
> I am willing to give it a real go here but it doesn't look like I am going to be alowed to.......
> Paul.


My German tile setter had those sentiments exactly. Would loose a job for .25 cents a foot to a non tax paying illegal alien. His work was impeccable and I have not been able to fill the void since he left 
Finding customers that appreciate good work is hard. Most don't know quality from a hole in the wall.

With most people it's greed and stupidity...
You can't educate the masses  

But surely the red tape in England has to be as bad if not worse??


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## rws (Nov 26, 2004)

Teetorbilt said:


> I like rws' assement even if he's never seen a 'gator, swamp or anything else. From an old swamper.


Seen lots of gators and swamps have family in naples .


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## ukpaul (Nov 21, 2005)

copusbuilder said:


> But surely the red tape in England has to be as bad if not worse??


Yea, its really frustrating !!
All the people here in Morristown just think you can come over on a plane and stay......All they see is all the illegals and think its easy...In fact, I have a Mexican guy who works for me and tells me that when my visa runs out I should just stay....I tell him that us brits probably stand out like a sore thumb compared to the hispanics !
I guess in UK it probably is just as bad but all we see is that we are gradually becomeing a minourity due to all the Indians, Pakistanis, Kosovan, Iraqis etc all being let in.
It's a changing world !
Paul.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

rws, I went by your address (NY) sorry if I'm out of step. I have a buddy with a camp in Big Cypress and have tooled all over the 'glades in airboats and buggies. We aren't talking tourist stuff, I build airboats and buggies, have for 30+ years. It once took me almost 3 days to walk out after flipping an airboat. Really funny stuff except for the 'gators, They really slowed things down, you don't swim a ACE ditch without checking it out thoughly.


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## Jonesey (Jul 7, 2006)

This is no joke guys, this thread is exactly why I ended up in business. I used to work for the University here. Vacation, sick days, insurance. One nice budget crunch and whoops, you were the last hired. Trying to compete in this market is killing me. Guys don't even have to learn the language here. I've been a foreman for FOUR YEARS for $14 an hour. 

Gas prices were eating me up. Heck, it's not even prevailing for TEN YEARS AGO. Getting chewed because not one guy on the crew could understand english. I had to SHOW everybody what to do and STILL get MY work done. 

I decided to go into business for myself before I ended up too broke. These are real problems for a lot of fine tradesmen in this area. The painting contractors here don't care or can't care. They either get priced out, or start hiring on in that same range.

Heck, last year I lost $400 in stolen tools alone! I still have to check bags every day. If it gets in their car it's gone.

The only way to fight back, imho, is to live to your principles and don't stop. 

1. No illegals
2. No drugs
3. No liquor
4. No thieves
5. Got a visa? Learn the language
6. I'll spell it for you, B A T H E, every day, no kidding
7. Smile

If a guy can't do that, he's not even a helper. If an HO wants a bidwar, fine. He can hire anybody he wants as long as I don't have to fix it. 

Right now, I still work for somebody else. Have to because the market here is so intense. But I set my prices. If they don't pay, I don't work for them. Bills must be paid. But at least now I've got more bargaining power than I had, and a few good customers under my belt that are happy to refer me. 

I heard a story on NPR that said the labor surplus wasn't really harming wages. The guy said that wages had only gone down %5 in the last 10 years. And that didn't matter because there was so much more work now because of the lower prices than there was 10 years ago. I'd love to give that guy a real education. 

The fact is that they'll keep coming until they can no longer find jobs. No one, no matter what they say, is going to enforce the law that's already on the books. Here in OK we've just had a shakeup in the Comp Law. They promised full enforcement and started auditing. For a year. I had to buy MY OWN COMP to keep my job. My old boss' illegal help? They get paid cash.


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## Rich Wozny (Aug 18, 2005)

_Some people_ only want rich or poor, no middle class, and they are winning, so set your sights on a job at McDonalds, flipping burgers.....


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## kid creole (Jul 11, 2006)

Blaster said:


> That there is no more America. It is Can- AMER- Mexico.
> 
> He has given me some advice and about every thing he said 3 years ago to me, is comming to pass.
> 
> ...


:surrender: 
all true i'm afraid heres a lil proof>> 

*propaganda web site removed*

this country nas been bought and sold many times.everyone needs to get beyond the emotional aspect of this and use the labor while its good


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Blaster said:


> Well I have been told by one of my clients, (he is worht I would guess billionS). That there is no more America. It is Can- AMER- Mexico. This guy is a mover and shaker, he jets in and then hops on his helicopter and flys out to his 3500 acre get a way cabin, that is 12,000 square ft.
> 
> He has given me some advice and about every thing he said 3 years ago to me, is comming to pass.
> 
> ...


That's funny stuff! So far the only use I have had for Mexicans has been for them preparing their food at a local Mexican restaurant or when they make up my bed, bring me fresh towels and take me out on their boats fishing when I'm in Mexico on vacation.

Best line I use with my customers in effect is something along the lines of "and I'll be on the job site everyday, we don't run one of those operations where a salesman sells you the job and you never see him again and then a crew that doesn't speak any English shows up to stumble through the work. In other words working with us there won't be any "translation" problems if you know what I mean. 

Which leads to a "Thank you Mike, and here's the check, when can you start?":clap:


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

American jobs sent overseas....immigrants allowed to freely enter the country......the picture is clear, and that fella is right. Welcome to the new world order. "Finally, we have the real prospect of a new world order".....George Bush Sr.


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## SgtBaldy (Jul 14, 2006)

I use that line myself Mike. :thumbsup:


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

This is interesting
Well I got a call from a labor company this morning
Wanted to know if I needed any help
They provide laborers, like Labor Ready
Except it's all immigrants
The company wanted me to know that they take care of any paperwork for the employees
I asked outright if any were here illegally, and they said "Don't worry, we take care of all the paperwork, we hire them, you hire us"

Wow
I haven't run into these before
Is this common, or a response to our new local law?
(The town of Sandwich -yeah, that's the name of the town- just made it a $1000 fine if any local businesses hire illegals)


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

slickshift said:


> This is interesting
> Well I got a call from a labor company this morning
> Wanted to know if I needed any help
> They provide laborers, like Labor Ready
> ...


There are a number of "organizations" around the country that do the day labor thing and have a political agenda at the same time, that illegals have the right to work here too. You might be dealing with one of those asshat firms. We've got one here in Denver, I'd like to pull one of those routines from that video posted here a while back and hire about 20 of them and drive them straight to the INS office.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks Mike


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## Downeast (Apr 17, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> We've got one here in Denver, I'd like to pull one of those routines from that video posted here a while back and hire about 20 of them and drive them straight to the INS office.


LOL : That would be so much fun.....:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :clap: :laughing:




Till the feds arrest you for kidnapping...... Then they get a lawyer to sue you for mental anguish or something........


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Yes, that was a great video. Too bad he didn't inform the INS he was coming so they wouldn't just scatter like cockroaches.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

AAPaint said:


> Yes, that was a great video. Too bad he didn't inform the INS he was coming so they wouldn't just scatter like cockroaches.


:w00t: Yeah, like when they gather up livestock here, drive them into the fenced area and one guy maning the gate to close it as soon as you get in! Gotcha!


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## kid creole (Jul 11, 2006)

slickshift said:


> Yeah not that I don't think it won't degenerate....as it already is on it's way...
> 
> But:
> It's possible to discuss this as a business problem in a normal non-inflammatory way
> ...



and i post a story about the u.s. building a road from mexico to canada and thats propaganda?? am i not educating consumers? yea finnely go get 20 latinos and try to drop them of at i.n.s. they will laugh at you and prolly find some way to issue you a citation?!!?

there is no way that you will beat this . this is how they want it! i am pissed as well! my irish ancestors died in the thousands from yellow fever digging canals in new orleans as indentured servants.these latinos didnt and are not going to pay there dues in the same fashion....

but whatya gonna do cry about it? wright your congressmen?not hire them? not make money off of them while you can because it's not fair??
there is nothing fair when it comes to the almighty dollar fellas:notworthy


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

kid creole said:


> and i post a story about the u.s. building a road from mexico to canada and thats propaganda??


Sorry, I couldn't tell which, if any, story you were referring too on that page
Most of the titles I saw were incendiary


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## kid creole (Jul 11, 2006)

no worrys slick.
here a lil cleaner site.theres is a picture of W. might be highly incendiary to some:furious: ..

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50451

i cant mess with the latinos, when running a company rebuilding after katrina they were the only choice... after the locals stole, showed up late, didnt preform and so on.....

i am currently looking at software to teach me Spanish. because when it comes time for us to build these homes i know who will be 65-75% of the workforce


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## kid creole (Jul 11, 2006)

heres a pic of the future


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## Rich Wozny (Aug 18, 2005)

Let me state simply, the problem starts with "W"...


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## Blaster (Jul 11, 2006)

I am here in Montana and am talking to many small contractors about this. I think most of them are not facing the truth. I had an experience working with illegals about 4 years ago. Here are some of my thoughts.

1. That was 4 years ago; the border is still wide open.

2. 80 % of the people want it shut down. Why is it not happening.

3. I have called the I.N.S. about illegals and the places here they are working (one place had around 25 illegals) they will not even call me back.

4. The Republicans AND the Democrats have NO INTENTION of shutting the boarder down, there are no longer any borders between us and Mexico and Canada. It is only there in the mind of some Americans. 

5. For those who say they do shabby work, and you can sell quality, well that has not been my experience. I am having to face the hard truth that many of these guys do as good if not better job than me. They just do not mind working for 10 dollars an hour.

6. I just lost a job I thought I had to an illegal contractor. The homeowner is totally against illeaglls. However, he bid $3000, 00 less than me. This illegal is legally licensed and has liability insurance and everything I do. So for the homeowner the will get a GREAT deal. Bottom line when you get into thousands of dollars no one is going to hire me over him. I know about this guy and would be lying to say he does shabby work. He works very long hours and cares about what he is doing. I am guessing from his bid price he is working for around $10 an hour after his overhead. (We have very similar size businesses)

7. My count supervisor says it is useless to pas locall laws because they will only be challanged in federal court by the Justice department or A.C.L.U and ruled unlawful. He said look at Califronia the passed referendums, and laws, and city codes, and the federal government stepped in every time and shut them down. 

I am passed complaining, I want ideas that will work. If something is not done soon it will all be over, if it is not already to late like some have told me. How about the people stand up and say, shut the border down or we will recall every house and senate member, BOTH Republican and Democrat., and the President. This is way past party lines. This is an open invasion and they are allowing it if not promoting it. The border CAN be shut down in 48 HOURS if they want to.

This is maybe way to political for this site. If so sorry, but I see my future and business slipping away.

Craig


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## Blaster (Jul 11, 2006)

Straight from the horses mouth, here is a government web site. DO NOT GO HERE UNLESS YOU WANT TO GET ANGRY!:furious: 

I can not post it as a link since I am under ten posts. spp.gov/

It's a brave new world my friends. 

Craig


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## Downeast (Apr 17, 2006)

Blaster said:


> Straight from the horses mouth, here is a government web site. DO NOT GO HERE UNLESS YOU WANT TO GET ANGRY!:furious:
> 
> I can not post it as a link since I am under ten posts. spp.gov/
> 
> ...


Is that the INS site ?

They try to push off to HLS and INS pushes back to them.HLS says if you don't have a name and address they won't respond.

The American people are going to have to push harder and stop letting the feds fluff us off. I don't see that happening soon though. It will take a much rougher economy to getthem going.

The INS site said that there is no amnesty program but they are embracing illegals.

Its pretty sad that the illegals have better representation in congress than we as citizens do.:sad:


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## Downeast (Apr 17, 2006)

Blaster said:


> Straight from the horses mouth, here is a government web site. DO NOT GO HERE UNLESS YOU WANT TO GET ANGRY!:furious:
> 
> I can not post it as a link since I am under ten posts. spp.gov/
> 
> ...



Just make a few posts here with .......... and a smiley to get your ten.

We will be patient.:whistling


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## Exroadog (Feb 11, 2005)

"The American people are going to have to push harder and stop letting the feds fluff us off." says downeast!

The feds dont want to stop the illegals. They dont want to outlaw cigarettes. Too much income for them. And a good war and "re-building" allows Cos. like Halliburton (Chenys co.) to steal billions from you and me. They want you worrying about illegals while the FEDS, and Corp. America sneak up on you and rob you blind. 
I know theres a problem, but most illegals are hired by American co. that are increasing there profits. Its American.!! Politicians have illegal nannys!
And if you kicked them all out today, strawberrys would be $20 a piece. And apples and oranges.
The problem in Maine is all the MA. painting co. coming up and low balling. LOL.
If I was living like most of the illegals have been, I too would be coming to America. (Family has been here since 1620, and I think we were illegal!) Most illegals in my woods are from Canada.
Dont know what the answer is, but dont let "them" have the tail wagging the dog on you!


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