# Titanium hammer showdown!



## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

nap said:


> ok guys. I'm not a carpenter so i don;t use a hammer very often.
> 
> Tell me why titanium is better than steel.


ting!


----------



## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

nap said:


> Tell me why titanium is better than steel.


_The density of titanium is only 56% the density of steel. The stiffness of titanium is also about half that of steel. It therefore follows that the stiffness-to-weight ratio of the two metals is nearly the same. 

_ _In English this means that titanium is nearly as strong as, but is lighter than steel._  ​ 

What that means to framers is they can still 3-bang sinkers (fully sink a 16d nail w/ 3 hammer hits) w/ a hammer that weighs 14 oz. instead of using one that weighs 23 oz.

Saves their elbows...$300 is the upfront cost to reduce the chance of a multi-thousand dollar elbow surgery down the road. If I was still framing, I'd have a titanium hammer-no question. As I mostly use my hammer to coax wood into place and finish off gun nails in knots, the $20 steel Fat Max works just fine...

Mac


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

You're going to have to explain the physics to me on that one. If weight is the only, or at least major reason, then why not simply buy a lighter steel hammer.

after all, 16 oz. is 16 oz.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

AMG


Here is one just for you!!!!

" Titanium was discovered in Cornwall, England by William Gregor in 1791 and named by Martin Heinrich Klaproth for the Titans of Greek mythology. "


----------



## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

nap said:


> You're going to have to explain the physics to me on that one. If weight is the only, or at least major reason, then why not simply buy a lighter steel hammer.
> 
> after all, 16 oz. is 16 oz.


_The lighter hammer-head allows for a faster swing with the same effort as the steel hammer counter part._

Faster moving head generates more force. 14 oz. Titanium moves faster than 23 oz steel - generating similar force.

_A Titanium hammer does not let as much of the power of the blow to get absorbed by the hammer as a steel hammer does. That means more of the power delivered to the nail actually is absorbed to the nail, instead of being lost and absorbed in the recoil of a steel hammer._

14 oz. titanium delivers more force to nail and less to hammer handle (in recoil) so it will drive a nail down faster than a 14 oz. steel. Common numbers online show titanium has 3% recoil vs. 27-30% for steel.

That, and the fact that everyone I've known (and many more online) that uses a Titanium swears by them. I'll listen to that many voices of experience.

Mac


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

nap said:


> You're going to have to explain the physics to me on that one. If weight is the only, or at least major reason, then why not simply buy a lighter steel hammer.
> 
> after all, 16 oz. is 16 oz.


1. I suspect the titanium is actually a stiffer metal. making more of the swinging effort drive in the nail. A person can honestly feel the diffrence.
2. It;s not as cool. my partner has a 16 oz estwing I call it his popgun.lol. I keep telling him I'll buy him the rest of the fisher price carpenter set for christmas.


----------



## Proud Plumber (Sep 9, 2008)

hughjazz said:


> 1. I suspect the titanium is actually a stiffer metal. making more of the swinging effort drive in the nail. A person can honestly feel the diffrence.
> 
> How are they on the fingers for those of us that miss occaisionally?


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

> =BuiltByMAC;501092]_The lighter hammer-head allows for a faster swing with the same effort as the steel hammer counter part._
> 
> Faster moving head generates more force. 14 oz. Titanium moves faster than 23 oz steel - generating similar force.


that is why I asked comparing a 16 oz steel to a 16 oz titanium hammer. You can swing each equally fast.




> _A Titanium hammer does not let as much of the power of the blow to get absorbed by the hammer as a steel hammer does. That means more of the power delivered to the nail actually is absorbed to the nail, instead of being lost and absorbed in the recoil of a steel hammer._
> 
> _14 oz. titanium delivers more force to nail and less to hammer handle (in recoil) so it will drive a nail down faster than a 14 oz. steel. Common numbers online show titanium has 3% recoil vs. 27-30% for steel._




Yuo are the one, a couple posts up, that wrote that steel is stiffer than titanium. A less stiff metal would tend to absorb the energy rather than impart it on a target.





> That, and the fact that everyone I've known (and many more online) that uses a Titanium swears by them. I'll listen to that many voices of experience.


I think it is just because once you spend 10 times as much on a hammer, you are too embarresed to admit that it isn't any better than the cheaper steel hammer. You know, the emperors new clothes thing.

I'll have to ask around with the 100 carpenters on my current job. One of them must have one of these new fangled titanium hammers I can take a few swings with.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

" Elongation numbers of a metal tell us how much a material will bend before it breaks. Titanium’s 20 – 30 % elongation beats out steel’s 10 – 15% and aluminum’s 6 – 12%. The lower the elongation number, the more brittle and breakable a material is. The higher the elongation number, the stronger the material is. So, the same amount of titanium stretched out into a tube will wear less than the same amount of steel or aluminum stretched out to the same size tube. Carbon fiber does not stretch; it must be molded into form. "

http://www.evertibikes.com/why_titanium.htm


By extrapolation....Titanium is MORE flexible.


----------



## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

nap said:


> Yuo are the one, a couple posts up, that wrote that steel is stiffer than titanium. A less stiff metal would tend to absorb the energy rather than impart it on a target.
> 
> One of them must have one of these new fangled titanium hammers I can take a few swings with.


I don't know how they arrive at the recoil numbers...I was pulling info off of a couple of sites to try to answer your questions. I don't know how they test for recoil or what it is about titanium that makes it have a lower recoil than steel. I'm at a loss to further explain it.

If the guys on your site don't have one, you could probably hit up your local lumberyard/hardware store to demo one in the store. If they stock 'em, they'll want to sell 'em so they should let you play with one to test it out.

Mac


----------



## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

after 6 months of swinging a 22 oz estwing while framing, my elbow was beginning to feel like road kill. i would wake up at 3 am with shooting pains going through it. 

after switching to my 14 oz stilletto, the only elbow pain i have is from hitting my elbow on the wall when reaching for the toilet paper


----------



## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

after 6 months of swinging a 22 oz estwing while framing, my elbow was beginning to feel like road kill. i would wake up at 3 am with shooting pains going through it. 

after switching to my 14 oz stilletto, the only elbow pain i have is from hitting my elbow on the wall when reaching for the toilet paper:w00t:


----------



## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

as I said earlier, I tried a stilleto tibone that I borrowed from a coworker. Compaired to a 20-28 oz hammer, It hit harder, was easier to swing, easier to change your swing in mid swing, and wasn't as heavy when it's hanging off your bags. Now I have the vaughn ti-tech. It's lighter in the bags and eaiser to swing and change direction of a swing, just like a tibone, but it hits as hard as a steel hammer. That is where the Tibone is better. As for steel vs low end ti hammer vs high end ti hammer, I've tried all three, and without a doubt, steel<titech<tibone.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

TempestV said:


> As for steel vs low end ti hammer vs high end ti hammer, I've tried all three, and without a doubt, steel<titech<tibone.


For those of us who have forgotten basic Mathematic Symbols........


< is equal to "less than".


----------



## Michael Coulson (Jan 9, 2008)

*Titanium ROCKS!!!!!*

Ive had a stilletto 140z for about two years. I'm on my second. I broke the first one hammering the side of it on a grade stake and then broke the claw pulling a nail. I would buy a third! This hammer has saved my arm. What good is a carpenter who can't hammer? Its worth the price. But after seeing the ti7 video i might try that for the lifetime warranty! The hammer is much lighter and packs an awesome punch!:clap:


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

MALCO.New.York said:


> For those of us who have forgotten basic Mathematic Symbols........
> 
> 
> < is equal to "less than".


 
I was taught the alligator mouth eats the bigger piece.
Or it always points to the little guy.:laughing:


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

hughjazz said:


> I was taught the alligator mouth eats the bigger piece.
> Or it always points to the little guy.:laughing:


Correct!!!!

Points to the one of LESSER value! 

Eats the GREATER one!


----------



## AMG (Feb 12, 2007)

I had no idea that titanium came from cornwall malco, and thanks for the the english lesson earlier in my posts. you can correct me on my grammer latter,....that was a joke! I'm not english anyway, Scottish carpenter down here 25yrs showing these english bastards how to do a good job!


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

AMG said:


> I had no idea that titanium came from cornwall malco, and thanks for the the english lesson earlier in my posts. you can correct me on my grammer latter,....that was a joke! I'm not english anyway, Scottish carpenter down here 25yrs showing these english bastards how to do a good job!



Ya fooker, ya! Show them Limey Bastards how a Highlander swings!


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

woodworkbykirk said:


> after 6 months of swinging a 22 oz estwing while framing, my elbow was beginning to feel like road kill. i would wake up at 3 am with shooting pains going through it.
> 
> after switching to my 14 oz stilletto, the only elbow pain i have is from hitting my elbow on the wall when reaching for the toilet paper


I am not arguing the lesser weight lowers the physical stresses. That is a given. The only thing I am trying to understand is what/ how the titanium does to improve the power applied situation. Not that I am looking for the answer here as it seems it is not something that can be defined in words.

Like I said, I'll have to ask the carpenters on my job to see it any have them and give it a shot for myself.


----------



## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

it's really simple- when swinging a big steel hammer, a lot of the energy doesn't get transferred to the nail. With a titanium hammer, almost all of the energy gets transferred to the nail. As a result, a titanium hammer can be a whole lot lighter and still transfer the same amount of energy. If you wanted to, you could make a titanium hammer that weighs 24 oz, and it would probably drive roughly like a 36oz hammer.


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

> =TempestV;502447]it's really simple- when swinging a big steel hammer, a lot of the energy doesn't get transferred to the nail.


and why would that be?



> With a titanium hammer, almost all of the energy gets transferred to the nail.


please explain why.



> As a result, a titanium hammer can be a whole lot lighter and still transfer the same amount of energy.


actually, if you consider weight only, a steel hammer can impart as much kinetic energy as a titanium hammer, pound for pound. There has to be something about the metal itself that is responsible for the difference. You can make a steel hammer the same weight as a titanium hammer. As a result, you would be able to swing the steel hammer just as fast as the titanium hammer and as a result, impart the same amount of energy to the nail but those here that have used them claim it is more than just the weight. As of yet, nobody here has been able to quantify that difference in any way that would explain how a titanium hammer is better.

I asked a boatload of carpenters today.

So far, no titanium hammers on this job but I have several more floors with carpenters on them to ask.


----------



## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

nap said:


> and why would that be?
> 
> please explain why.


Do the golfer's going for the long ball use steel clubs or titanium?

The metal is actually forged in Valhalla by Thor's personal blacksmith. Oden decided on Stainless 440 because of all the saltwater, so I heard.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

wallmaxx said:


> Do the golfer's going for the long ball use steel clubs or titanium?
> 
> The metal is actually forged in Valhalla by Thor's personal blacksmith. Oden decided on Stainless 440 because of all the saltwater, so I heard.



Good stuff Wallmaxx!!!


Ting!

And what a lovely sound it is!!!!


----------



## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

nap said:


> and why would that be?
> 
> please explain why.


Different material properties- steel rings and vibrates when hit, which means that some of the energy is retained in the head of the hammer. Titanium doesn't vibrate like that, which means that almost all of the energy is transfered to the nail. While the heavier steel hammer carries more energy, the titanium head is more efficent.


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

TempestV said:


> Different material properties- steel rings and vibrates when hit, which means that some of the energy is retained in the head of the hammer. Titanium doesn't vibrate like that, which means that almost all of the energy is transfered to the nail. While the heavier steel hammer carries more energy, the titanium head is more efficent.


You're on the right track but still have not given a "technical" explanation. Like I said before, I suggest this is above most of our minds and as such, trying to explain it in our terms is just not quite what I am looking for. I'll just have to find one and give it a try.

Sometimes there is just nothing that explains something better than experience.

I appreciate the efforts though.


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Like I said. It's cool. 40% of the reason I use a titanium hammer is coolness. The other 60%is to save my elbow. and carry around less weight all day. It's not that complicated. How many people have used titanium for a week or so then decided. "nope steel is better" None! Titanium is better. I don't know why but it is. 

Around here I bet over 50% of framers use a titanium hammer of some sort.


----------



## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

hughjazz said:


> Like I said. It's cool. 40% of the reason I use a titanium hammer is coolness.


I am always getting busted by my wife, because I combine the word cool in a sentence when I am talking about a future new tool purchase. In my simple mind...ALL MY TOOLS ARE COOL!!!


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

wallmaxx said:


> I am always getting busted by my wife, because I combine the word cool in a sentence when I am talking about a future new tool purchase. In my simple mind...ALL MY TOOLS ARE COOL!!!


 

lol isn't that the truth.:laughing:


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

Hugh, gotta tell you I love the screen name and the pic but why do you have a pic of a plumber since since you are a carpenter?


----------



## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

nap said:


> Hugh, gotta tell you I love the screen name and the pic but why do you have a pic of a plumber since since you are a carpenter?


I look at that pic and see a huge ass (Hughazz), not a plumber. Either way, one has to wonder if it's a self-portrait!

Mac


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

BuiltByMAC said:


> I look at that pic and see a huge ass (Hughazz), not a plumber. Either way, one has to wonder if it's a self-portrait!
> 
> Mac


 
Maybe the "plumbers crack" was misleading.:w00t:


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

lol That was on my own dishwasher. At home I'm everybody even the painter.

My favorite part of the picture is my 2 yr old kid in training. I even pulled his pants down a little.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## kapena (Aug 20, 2004)

AMG said:


> My mates stiletto turned up this morning in the post. First time I've seen him smile on a Monday morning! Yes, it's way better than my old vaughan. The only down side was our UK 4'' galvanized wire nails wouldn't sit in the magnectic holder properly. The slot needs to be about 1mm wider, going to try and widen it with a diamond file tomorrow ( not sure on titanium). Apart from that, it's an awsome hammer.
> 
> Anyone got a Dead on Ti7 ?


I did not like that stupid slot they put on the top of the hammer face of the TiBoneII.
That notched area in the top bevel is what I used to use to sink the nail without leaving a waffle pecker mark on stuff that shows. I also use that top bevel area on the hammer to toe-nail with, except for the lousy slot being there.
I ended up milling another flat spot on the inside connection of the hammer face so that the outside notch could be reversed to the bottom.
The hammer still does a decent job of magnetically holding a 16d nail when I need it.


----------



## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

still not convinced, granted my hammering is less for nailing and more for persuading heavy/wet stuff and frozen pile seperation, I find myself hanging up the stileto 14 framer (wood axe handle) for my estwing 30oz big blue everytime:sad:


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

I have asked maybe 30 carpenters and none of them have a titanium hammer.

One asked me "what for? You don;t need a big framing hammer when all the studs are steel."

Since I work commercial/industrial, just about all the framing is steel so that would make sense. Dang, I was looking for some pointed screws (like rock screws for wood) and nobody on the job even had any. All anybody had were self drillers.

I doubt the guys that frame for the concrete would want to spend that much on a hammer for playing in the dirt.


----------



## kapena (Aug 20, 2004)

A lot of the work I've been doing lately is remodeling. That mostly means wood, although steelwork is strong in Hawaii due to termites etc.

I have a 10oz wood-handle stilletto that is nice for finish work and overhead backhand. It is not a persuader when a beam needs adjustment.
My standby 3# sledge or even the 22oz Estwing are good for that stuff. A 30# Estwing is too much everyday hammer for my old elbows, although it would be nice to add to my collection.
The 15oz TiBone II can do a decent job of persuading when needed. It can hit harder than you might expect a light hammer to. It actually doesn't feel all that light compared to the wood-handled Stillettos either. The grip is thicker and more comfortable than Estwing too. I prefer the straight-handled Stilletto, since most of my hammers were straight-handled Estwings before. You should check out how it feels, if you get a chance to.


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

I bought a slightly used tbone 2 tonight for $100. I've used a ti-tech for 18 months now. I will report back for my impressions also.


----------



## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

hughjazz said:


> I bought a slightly used tbone 2 tonight for $100. I've used a ti-tech for 18 months now. I will report back for my impressions also.


That's a pretty sweet deal. I got my Ti-tech used for $20, but if I got the chance to grab a ti-bone for $100 I'd jump on it.


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Well it's been a couple months with the new (used) tbone,

I love it. The cap gets loose every few days but I don't have a problem with that.

I prefer it over the ti-tech, mainly because the tbone feels more weight balanced. The ti-tech feels top heavy in comparison.

Would I spend $300 for another one? Probably not.


----------



## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

I use a 22oz steel head wood handle vaughn that I got when I was 15. Still good to go, and I use steel woods and drivers too. Everyone I work with has some dope hammer I just dont see the attraction, I've used them dont like them.


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

BattleRidge said:


> I use a 22oz steel head wood handle vaughn that I got when I was 15. Still good to go, and I use steel woods and drivers too. Everyone I work with has some dope hammer I just dont see the attraction, I've used them dont like them.


 
what's a dope hammer mean? You work with inner city teenagers? lol:no:


I used a 22 oz vaugh, (hatchet handle of course) for about a month,but prefered my fatmax to it.


I don't care too much about the driving power of the titanium, I like the rubber gasket in it that cushions the impact, and the light weight. I really notice the diffrence in my bag.

I evn bought a titanium nail bar for $100 to save on weight I have to carry around.


----------



## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

I imagine doped up hammering getting more done, but I'd be surprised if the quality was any good.

I like the titanium hammers, but I really can't justify the cat's paw.


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

TempestV said:


> I imagine doped up hammering getting more done, but I'd be surprised if the quality was any good.
> 
> I like the titanium hammers, but I really can't justify the cat's paw.


 
I got it for christmas, (bought it for myself) If it doesn't break with all the waffling in it, I will be glad I spent the money


----------

