# Tiled corners Cracking



## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Being theres is alot of tile guys on this forum i figure Id see what methods from framing to tiling that are being used out there to prevent/minimize grout from cracking in corners. 

It seems that sometimes its almost inevitable no matter what you do.


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## tileman2000 (Feb 14, 2011)

To avoid cracking corners, you're better off using 100% silicone that matches the existing grout. Pretty unavoidable, some crack..some don't.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

You don't grout any change of plane or to dissimilar materials.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Wait.........

Are we talking inside corners here? Just to clarify.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

HandyHails said:


> Wait.........
> 
> Are we talking inside corners here? Just to clarify.


Yes talking about inside corners but let's expand this to other similar situations.
aside from grout matching caulks. I haver never been happywith silicone or caulk in corners just looks DIY.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Keep the joints tighter than you normally would on the inside corners then. I like 1/16th or so.


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

yep, try to keep the joint really tight, and run a very narrow bead of silicone.

When Im doing a Kerdi shower, I sometimes grout the vertical corners. The Kerdi seems to create a stronger corner.. Since it's totally waterproof back there, if a hairline crack forms it isnt going to worry me.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

SSC said:


> Yes talking about inside corners but let's expand this to other similar situations.
> aside from grout matching caulks. I haver never been happywith silicone or caulk in corners just looks DIY.


I'm not sure how a professionally applied thin line of silicone looks "DIY". :blink:

If you can't run a good bead, get the bead tool and tooling mist from these guys. Oh, and they also make a sanded 100% silicone. Angus bought a couple of tubes, but he hasn't seen fit to report on the results. :whistling


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

HS345 said:


> I'm not sure how a professionally applied thin line of silicone looks "DIY". :blink:
> 
> If you can't run a good bead, get the bead tool and tooling mist from these guys. Oh, and they also make a sanded 100% silicone. Angus bought a couple of tubes, but he hasn't seen fit to report on the results. :whistling


Running a bead is not the issue. With the exception of sanded silicones, having a siliconed corner does not look as nice as having just grout there instead. Color match is hardly ever perfect. White is never really white same with bones and almonds. And then theres the rustic multi toned tiles . . . how do you match that. JMO


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

SSC said:


> Running a bead is not the issue. With the exception of sanded silicones, having a siliconed corner does not look as nice as having just grout there instead. Color match is hardly ever perfect. White is never really white same with bones and almonds. And then theres the rustic multi toned tiles . . . how do you match that. JMO


If I can't match the grout, I try to match the tile. IMHO, matching the tile actually looks better. 

ColorRite makes over eighty colors of silicone, if you can't find a match, you're not trying hard enough. Give Noreen a call and ask for sample boards, you'll have them in a couple of days. 405-354-3644 or 1-855-82CAULK

And no, I don't work for them, I just like and use their product. Have been for a few years now.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

SSC said:


> having a siliconed corner does not look as nice as having just grout there instead.


Tiling is not solely about looks. There's a very good reason you are not supposed to grout a change of plane (corners); a very good chance the joint is going to crack. So what looks better, matching cracked grout, or almost matching not-cracked silicon?

You want a solution? Schluter Dilex profiles or urethane grout. Both are expensive solutions but solutions none the less. 

And Greg, I don't have enough time on the ColorRite to give fair assessment. I only used a portion of 1 tube. I will be finishing the caulk maybe Wednesday this week. I do like what I've seen so far.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

I knew you'd get to it Angus, I was just givin' ya a friendly jab. :jester:


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Tiling is not solely about looks. There's a very good reason you are not supposed to grout a change of plane (corners); a very good chance the joint is going to crack. So what looks better, matching cracked grout, or almost matching not-cracked silicon?
> 
> You want a solution? Schluter Dilex profiles or urethane grout. Both are expensive solutions but solutions none the less.
> 
> And Greg, I don't have enough time on the ColorRite to give fair assessment. I only used a portion of 1 tube. I will be finishing the caulk maybe Wednesday this week. I do like what I've seen so far.


Angus. How does the urethane grout resist cracking? does it have adhesive properties that bond it to tile?

I do not care for those dilex corner systems. However they are a solution- an ugly one in my oppinion


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

If its doable I will always try to reframe th corner studs in a way that they can be screwed together
It usually involves replacing 1 corner stud. But I feel its worth it and its great to minimize movement right from the start. Expansion and contraction still occur but minimally.
Nothing worse than pushing on a hacked corner and seeing grout joint open :w00t:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

SSC said:


> Angus. How does the urethane grout resist cracking? does it have adhesive properties that bond it to tile?
> 
> I do not care for those dilex corner systems. However they are a solution- an ugly one in my oppinion


Urethane grout, while having a very high compressive strength, has a pretty high crack resistance. While _not _an official solution, and no where does it state urethane grout is an acceptable alternative to silicone, I have performed some testing and have yet to see it fail in a corner application. Does _not _mean it can't.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

_Inside corners in masonry always crack. 
You have to be smarter than the inside corner.
:thumbsup:_​


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## TechsRuler (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm Stunned to hear that people are having a grout line crack after it's been siliconed? How much expansion is common in you climates? I literally have never in 10 years had that happen or seen it happen when applied correctly using a premium 100% sili. Interesting. I live in Alberta where it's usually quite dry but I used to live in kelowna BC and never had that problem there either.
Granted I think the color match sili's are nicer looking but unfortunately one would have a hard time finding a good supplier here. Home depot carries a few colors but it's not actually silicon, it's acrylic caulking and I don't like using anything but pure silicone on constant wet areas. If grout lines are to wide I could see the silicone not being able to handle the expansion but I never have more then a max 1/8" line on an inside corner. 
I'm not saying don't use the colored stuff, by all means use it if you can get it.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

TechsRuler said:


> I'm Stunned to hear that people are having a grout line crack after it's been siliconed? How much expansion is common in you climates? I literally have never in 10 years had that happen or seen it happen when applied correctly using a premium 100% sili. Interesting. I live in Alberta where it's usually quite dry but I used to live in kelowna BC and never had that problem there either.
> Granted I think the color match sili's are nicer looking but unfortunately one would have a hard time finding a good supplier here. Home depot carries a few colors but it's not actually silicon, it's acrylic caulking and I don't like using anything but pure silicone on constant wet areas. If grout lines are to wide I could see the silicone not being able to handle the expansion but I never have more then a max 1/8" line on an inside corner.
> I'm not saying don't use the colored stuff, by all means use it if you can get it.


The OP was asking about methods to minimize cracking when grouting corners. As Angus previously mentioned...you should never grout a change of plane or tile to a dissimilar material.


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

I was thinking about this on the last shower I did, 4x4 with two side walls.

One of the main reasons not to grout the corner isn't just the aesthetics of the grout in the corner but also to allow an expansion joint in the corner to prevent the tile from buckling.

If you install your cement backer on the side walls first and then fit the cement board in between on the back wall really snug it seems to me it shouldn't be possible for shrinkage to cause the tile to buckle because the cement board wouldn't budge.

Just a thought, I still plan to always carefully caulk the corners and I've never had a complaint about how they look.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

I know these inside corners should be silicones but I prefer to grout them - I like the end look and so do most of my clients.

Typically we beef up the fasteners on the inside corners and use 3" number 8 wood screws on 6-8" spacing. Once boarded we tape these corners with a 6-8" stucco mesh and thinset.

For an even stronger corner you can lace the tile. 

One of the top setters I know here in Vancouver swears by Kerdi Band and Kerdi Fix in these inside corners.

Typically I advice my client that we prefer to NOT use silicone but it is spec'd as the proper technique. If a small hairline where to appear a small bead of silicone can hide it.

The key is in the boarding and the rigidity of the wall studs....

JW


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