# 3 way switch question



## essrmo (May 2, 2007)

rkaitz said:


> Sure is nice when a fellow tradesman *thinks "he is the man".* *As a G.C.* I am not required to specialize as an electricain. That is the reason I am researching this issue prior to doing the work. It just seemed like a simple fix to me. I am happy for you that you have a wealth of information, but it saddens me to see your* lack of ability to offer help* to others. After all...I thought that is what this site was all about! Have fun bashing!


maybe if you were more respectful. on one hand you want to be a fellow tradesman then in the same sentence you retorically take a personal stab. you never did answer your questions.


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## glassman (Apr 16, 2009)

*3-way switch problem*

Not to bash you, just want to suggest as others to call an electrician.
I posted a while back about an electrical problem concerning what I thought might be an unsafe/dangerous wiring condition, did I sound a little worried or maybe scared in my post? sure! this was out of my comfort zone, my family's life is way more important than my ego. ELECTRICITY is that marvelous, invisible force that makes our life so much easier.
Long story short, the professional electrician I hired put my mind at ease, and was able to locate and correct other hidden flaws in the home.
I am a pro at my trade of glass and glazing, through apprenticeship training,
all the way to journeyman. Can I do some plumbing, electrical, carpentry?
Maybe/maybe not, that's why I ask a question and listen to the responses
The sparky's on this site are not going to compromise their professionalism 
and tell you what might be the quick fix, their reputation as pros and their true caring for protection of life and property come first.
sorry for the long response, take their advise and hire one.:thumbsup:


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## mickey69125 (Dec 8, 2007)

Something for all of you electricians to think about when you insist that only an electrician should handle this job. I don't know of an electrician who would take the time to fix this problem for a homeowner in my area. Too small of a job, so the homeowner tries to fix it himself or learns to live without a 3 way switch. I agree that most homeowners shouldn't be doing this kind of work, but there are some out there who can figure it out and do it safely.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

mickey69125 said:


> Something for all of you electricians to think about when you insist that only an electrician should handle this job. I don't know of an electrician who would take the time to fix this problem for a homeowner in my area. Too small of a job, so the homeowner tries to fix it himself or learns to live without a 3 way switch. I agree that most homeowners shouldn't be doing this kind of work, but there are some out there who can figure it out and do it safely.


Then right there is a niche market that is completely untapped.

Now, back to the OPs problem: Again, how is your 3-way system wired? Which opening is fed with power first?... Switch A, Switch B, or the fixture itself?


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

None of you electricians were born knowing how to wire a 3 way, give the guy a break, he is trying to learn.
It is beneficial to know some basics so you are able to identify any potential problems you may come across. 
And then call in the electrician.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

bconley said:


> None of you electricians were born knowing how to wire a 3 way, give the guy a break, he is trying to learn.
> It is beneficial to know some basics so you are able to identify any potential problems you may come across....


That's what I'm trying to do. I just need to know how it was wired to begin with. Is power coming into one of the switches first, or does it go to the fixture instead?


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

480, 
I jumped the gun not reading the whole thread and was referring to your 1st posts.
Thanks


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I believe the underlying issue in this thread is the OP lackadaisical approach and the manner he posted the question. He's a GC supposed to have some working knowledge of the trade. Pull the cover & look if it is the proper switch, you don't need to ask that here. And then the statement of gonna mess around with a tester. You going to tell a client that? This is not a professional approach to the problem. Maybe he's just trying to look cool on this site and the way the question was posed blew that. Maybe a lesson learned?
Remember in dealing with people it's their perception of you that counts.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

griz said:


> I believe the underlying issue in this thread is the OP lackadaisical approach and the manner he posted the question. He's a GC supposed to have some working knowledge of the trade. Pull the cover & look if it is the proper switch, you don't need to ask that here. And then the statement of gonna mess around with a tester. You going to tell a client that? This is not a professional approach to the problem. Maybe he's just trying to look cool on this site and the way the question was posed blew that. Maybe a lesson learned?
> Remember in dealing with people it's their perception of you that counts.


 
If it's a toggle switch, you don't even need to pull the cover. If it has "ON" and "OFF" stamped on it, it's a single pole.

Now, a seasoned professional can identify 3-ways and even 4-way decoras without pulling the cover, but that's not what this thread is about.




Now, _again_, where in the circuit is power fed to the switches and light?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

480sparky, My mistake didn't think about the on off labeling.arty:
Exactly why I defer to the experts.:thumbsup:


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

I have seen 3 ways wired with 12-2 rope. 
Switching those wires around until you 
come up with a winner is dangerous
to himself, the HO, his family and the 
Electrician called out to repair shoddy work. ​


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

ATTN Prima Donna contractors: Unless this guy has a heart condition and firmly grabs the ground in one hand and the lead in the other, I doubt the guy's going to kill himself with 120. We get it, you're professionals and you hate hack-of-all-trades. At LEAST he's asking about it.

ATTN OP: If you don't know how to do something, sub it out to a professional and watch them do it while asking questions. Unless they're a complete jerk, they'll be happy to explain what they're doing. Then next time, you can fix it yourself.:thumbsup: Ask yourself, would you hire a plumber who didn't know how to change a faucet? That's how basic a 3-way switch is to an electrician.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

This sorta post, both sides of the debate/bickering is really hurting this place. 

Delivery of a statement is the most important factor in the reception of said statement. 

As for the asking for advice or technical assistance, I do believe that if the question were about anything other than electron flow, there would be no nay-sayers. 

How is one to learn?

I could understand if the OP were asking about a service change out.........


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## StreamlineGT (Jul 4, 2009)

Contractor Talk is good for many things, for instance, getting info of your trade from others in your trade, and getting good feedback on tools and whatnot. What is going on in this thread makes me wonder how much difference there would be if homeowners were allowed to ask questions. Where is the line drawn? If we help this person, how is it different?


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

We frequently freely offer advice and technique to cross-trades here on CT.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

BuildersII said:


> ATTN Prima Donna contractors: Unless this guy has a heart condition and firmly grabs the ground in one hand and the lead in the other, I doubt the guy's going to kill himself with 120. We get it, you're professionals and you hate hack-of-all-trades. At LEAST he's asking about it.
> 
> ATTN OP: If you don't know how to do something, sub it out to a professional and watch them do it while asking questions. Unless they're a complete jerk, they'll be happy to explain what they're doing. Then next time, you can fix it yourself.:thumbsup: Ask yourself, would you hire a plumber who didn't know how to change a faucet? That's how basic a 3-way switch is to an electrician.


 
ATTN BUILDERSII: How many people can a noob plumber kill with a leaky faucet?

What seems to be a prevelant attitude here is since the OP is in one of the building trades, a 3-way switch is magically 'safer' than other forms of electicity. No matter how 'basic' is it, _it is still the same electricity that kills people and burns buildings down_. This is a fact of life. This is the truth. This is the way it is, whether you like it or not.

Now, I'm more than willing to walk the OP through the troubleshooting process, but it appears he's not willing to participate.


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> ATTN BUILDERSII: How many people can a noob plumber kill with a leaky faucet?


Ok, maybe I should have compared it to hooking up a gas line to a stove:whistling


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*rkaitz*

here is a 3 way diagram to help you understand the wiring a little better, hope this helps :thumbup:


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)




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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Static*

Very well done! :thumbsup: (puts mine to shame):notworthy


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

It's not my material as I am to lazy to draw diagrams or pretty pictures unless I get paid to do it! haha I am just a messenger with the power of google on this one.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

BuildersII said:


> Ok, maybe I should have compared it to hooking up a gas line to a stove:whistling


Yea, you're getting closer. But most people don't install gas lines with the gas still turned on.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

The diagrams provided here by static are very knowledgeable but if the someone doesnt understand which circuit they have or how that particular circuit works than that person takes a risk of being hurt. This is why some of us hesitate offering too much info. For starters does he know how to diag this problem with a meter and the power off? If they are going to diag the circuit live "not recommended" then they best understand how the circuit works or the risk of harm greaty increases. Electricity is an unseen force that can easily kill. I dont see how bickering about who has a risky profession and who doesnt makes a difference when it comes to offering advice. If the majority of replies to a post give the same reference then maybe that reference should be taken. There is obviously a reason to why.


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

I look at it this way, a man is going to do what a man wants to do. If he wants to risk his life by not being aware or knowledgeable in a subject matter then that is his problem. This the main reason I post diagrams that a monkey can understand, everyone knows if you don't know anything about electricity then you should ask for help or hire a professional. I am a professional, I join this forum to get help when I need it or provide it when it's needed, oh and too be an ass when I feel like it.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Static Design said:


>


_hard to read where the white wires are wrapped. (imo) _


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Add a 4-way in with the power supply mid-stream and it's even more fun!


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

It's just wires.............. match the color! duh!!!!!!!!


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Static Design said:


> It's just wires.............. match the color! duh!!!!!!!!


:laughing:


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

lol


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Static Design said:


> lol


LOL

I traced the other ones out and they are right. This one with the 4 way is too small for my old eyeballs to make out. 

How about one where the power source comes into the box where the 4 way is located.

Google that one!:clap:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

SKYHOOK & RS1 :clap::notworthy:thumbup::thumbup: You guys crack me up!!!
Excuse it's rselectric1!!


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Yea, you're getting closer. But most people don't install gas lines with the gas still turned on.


I do. I like to feel more like a badass when I work. I also sweat copper with the water on and I build homes roofs-first just for the challenge.:gunsmilie:


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

My brain hurts! I am familiar with home wiring, but never really took the time to learn about three ways and 4 ways. I think maybe I will study these diagrams and some I have. But, I would have to assemble some on a piece of plywood a few times to really under stand them. I have been hit a few times and very much respect what electricity can do!


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> LOL
> 
> I traced the other ones out and they are right. This one with the 4 way is too small for my old eyeballs to make out.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't post anything incorrect!!! :laughing: I might draw one out for your old man eyes, im just a kid so I can see them. :clap:


Do you want it autocad or ms paint!!!????????? haha


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

One phrase I was taught that made it easy to remember is, "Power comes in on a common, Power goes out on a common."


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)




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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Static Design said:


> I wouldn't post anything incorrect!!! :laughing: I might draw one out for your old man eyes, im just a kid so I can see them. :clap:
> 
> 
> Do you want it autocad or ms paint!!!????????? haha


I want it in ms paint like the last one. But I want you to draw the center box which so conveniently has the 4-way switch (all by itself) as the box where the line voltage enters the picture. (Because this along with shared neutrals and other things are what we really deal with every day)

480 Sparky and I will be grading your presentation. (He has older eyes than me kiddo) Hopefully he couldn't read that.

:clap:


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

LoL........ I got bids to work on fool, you know how to do this stuff! I'm tired of giving you cheat notes to put in your shirt pocket!!! haha

I''ll try to tackle it tomorrow, it's almost sleepy time for me....


Edit: I've to do some more thinking as I have never encountered the source being tied into the 4 way, I don't even know if it's possible yet.......... but I'm a noob.......


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I was just messing with you NOOOOOOB.

By the time you stuff that system into a box filled with about 4 or other circuits, it's a wonder any of us sparky's are still alive.:laughing:

Don't spend any time on that drawing, I was just kidding you.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Mellison said:


> *
> "I dont f%c* with what I can't see"*


:laughing:

I've SEEN blue smoke and lightning.

:laughing:​


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Where's the green one? I like green. The Sparky today had some cool looking purple & yellow too!!:thumbup::thumbsup:


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> I was just messing with you NOOOOOOB.
> 
> By the time you stuff that system into a box filled with about 4 or other circuits, it's a wonder any of us sparky's are still alive.:laughing:
> 
> Don't spend any time on that drawing, I was just kidding you.


Haha I knew something was up after 3 mins of sketching it out that's why I edit my post........ :laughing: Some ppl do some crazy things so I figure one of you old farts have done it before so I was going to try and figure it out. :whistling


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## stars13bars2 (Feb 13, 2005)

What is a noob, is it anything like a nubie or not even close?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

stars13bars2 said:


> What is a noob, is it anything like a nubie or not even close?


Same thing.


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