# ALT tags - important or not?



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I went to a seminar last week about web marketing and they did some hands on stuff with the participants websites and one of the discussions was about ALT tags being really important. They had I think maybe 6 top criteria for SEO and ALT tags were one of the 6. 

What's your take on this. I'm asking because we have few ALT tags in use and even fewer that are key word specific.


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## cbscreative (Dec 17, 2008)

Yes, they are important! First of all, if you are using XHTML, an alt tag is required for valid code even if it's empty (alt=""). A lot of times, the emphasis for alt tags is on SEO. And while it is important to SEO, there are other reasons. In the old days, many users turned off images to speed up load times. This is mot much of an issue any more, but we still have screen readers. People with sight disabilities rely on the alt tags to describe the images. This is one reason not to just keyword stuff them. Make them relevant by having important keywords while still catering to screen reader technology by providing a relevant description of your image.

Think of it this way. If you were blind, and the screen reader sounded like an annoying bunch of keyword stuffing as it went through your page, search engine bots are probably going to slap you out of frustration. Make the alt tags more inviting as if you are being sensitive to blind users, and search engines will reward you too.

On the downside, good use of alt tags will make the images rank better in image searches too. That invites potential theft, so you take the good with the bad.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

cbscreative said:


> Yes, they are important! First of all, if you are using XHTML, an alt tag is required for valid code even if it's empty (alt=""). A lot of times, the emphasis for alt tags is on SEO. And while it is important to SEO, there are other reasons. In the old days, many users turned off images to speed up load times. This is mot much of an issue any more, but we still have screen readers. People with sight disabilities rely on the alt tags to describe the images. This is one reason not to just keyword stuff them. Make them relevant by having important keywords while still catering to screen reader technology by providing a relevant description of your image.
> 
> Think of it this way. If you were blind, and the screen reader sounded like an annoying bunch of keyword stuffing as it went through your page, search engine bots are probably going to slap you out of frustration. Make the alt tags more inviting as if you are being sensitive to blind users, and search engines will reward you too.
> 
> On the downside, good use of alt tags will make the images rank better in image searches too. That invites potential theft, so you take the good with the bad.


Steve, I wish I could explain things like you do, that was a great explanation. Thank you!

Mike


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

So lets say for instance on this page from our website -

http://www.rockymountainbathrooms.com/bathtub-to-shower-conversion-ken-caryl-valley.htm

Based upon what you see, with the page title, description and all obviously its directed at SEO in specifically to *bathtub to shower conversion *and location specific *Ken Caryl Valley*

There are 9 pictures on the page, how would you use the alt text? 

You wouldn't just repeat- *bathtub to shower conversion* or *bathroom remodeling Ken Caryl Valley* over and over again in all 9 of them right? What would a smart SEO do?


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

I'm going to do this quick, but the point is, I'm describing the scene to the visually impaired. Forget that you heard about this in an SEO seminar. It's just good design practice (somewhat like a universally designed bathroom in a house with no handicapped individuals). 

1. Existing oval shaped deck mounted tub on beige tile.
2. Exterior view of window in tub area.
3. Photo of other windows that were replaced during the tub to shower conversion.
4. Interior photo of finished glass block style window.
5. Notice the tidy worksite and adherence to the EPA's RRP rules.
6. Notice the x details that set us apart from the average hack.
7. The x brand underlayment is installed, but it is not the water barrier!
8. The rubber pan covers the bottom of the shower floor, is integraged into the drain, and laps up the wall under the tile. 
9. A successful tub to shower conversion. Products installed include tile by x, fixtures by x, a bench area that runs below a full width five foot tall glass block style window.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> *Ken Caryl Valley*


That's in your site enough already. DO NOT stuff that into any alt tag ever. It's an insult in some ways.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

jmiller said:


> I'm going to do this quick, but the point is, I'm describing the scene to the visually impaired. Forget that you heard about this in an SEO seminar. It's just good design practice (somewhat like a universally designed bathroom in a house with no handicapped individuals).
> 
> 1. Existing oval shaped deck mounted tub on beige tile.
> 2. Exterior view of window in tub area.
> ...


So this looks like just more content. Content not duplicated on the page already.

What would be the difference of just including that in the text instead of the ALT tags, for instance just as captions under the pics?

I was under the understanding, perhaps misunderstanding that you need duplication of keywords, as in the same in the title, description, the file name of the page, heading on the page, text on the page...

using what you wrote in the ALT tags seems to go against that.

Thanks,

By the way - thanks for taking the time to look at the page, and writing all that out!


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

I should have started with, I'm not an SEO pro. Anyway! the way I see it (from a designer and USER perspective), is that you want more unique content-not repetition. Once the user realizes the alt tags say something different they'll roll over them all. 

If you look closely I did include the non geographic keyword in one alt tag. Repeating it over and over is just going to annoy the customer IMO.


"What would be the difference of just including that in the text instead of the ALT tags, for instance just as captions under the pics?"

For one you couldn't validate xhtml as noted by cbsc. The other is probably that google places a certain varying significance on your keywords showing up in the following areas (and more).
A. H1 headings
B. H2 headings
C. H3 headings
D. paragraph text
E. meta data
F. alt tags
G. names of inbound links etc etc

It's just one piece, that ethically should be done anyway for the disabled, so it isn't the place to stuff anything IMHO. Your location shows up in plenty of other places, so leave it out, but the service keywords in the tags are useful to others as well and you can have some fun with them too.


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## cbscreative (Dec 17, 2008)

I agree with jmiller about not needing to include location in the alt tags. The page itself should be optimized for that. I would do the alt tags a little differently, but j has the right idea. Since the purpose of your page appears to be for showing a bathtub to shower remodel, I would use that in the alt tag.

Pic #1: Existing bathtub before the bathtub to shower remodeling

Since this is your first image, the alt tag used here serves partly to set up the hierarchy, so I deliberately used "bathtub to shower remodeling" in the first alt tag. After that, just a sprinkling of keywords is needed to avoid keyword stuffing. Then the last one closes out with keywords kind of like a closing point. In those little brains of a search engine bot, starting and ending in similar fashion helps them determine what your page is about.

#2: New windows being added as part of bathroom remodel
#3: Exterior view of new window installation
#4: Interior view of new window installation

For the rest, go with jmiller's ideas of use parts of your captions.

On the final image, something like this would be good:

#9: The completed bathtub to shower bathroom remodel 

You could add a few more points, but since you're using captions, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

From a designer point of view, I would edit out the installer on the second to last pic (easy enough to do for someone good with Photoshop). Because he's so close to the glass, it makes it appear not to block out enough detail. I don't think you want to convey that on your site.

Thanks, j, for stepping in and offering some advice. Mine was a little more of an SEO balance, but between the two of us, Mike should be in much better shape.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

cbscreative said:


> I agree with jmiller about not needing to include location in the alt tags.


One legitimate way of doing it would be start with an exterior whole house photo, and have alt='Exterior photo of a Ken Caryl Valley home'. This is useful to the blind (e.g. if you were to say beverly hills home, the description of place may provide a visual), and I don't see it raising any flags. 

And thank you too, Steve!


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## roadhog (Oct 23, 2010)

*if serp position is your goal*

If it's for local seo make sure each image you add has your main keyword in the "alt tag".


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## alongston (Dec 30, 2010)

I know someone that is blind and has to use one of those programs that actually reads you the information on the website. The alt tags help them understand what is on the website, as well as help your images get indexed for search.


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## room2roof (Feb 1, 2011)

ALT tags are a must and when the relevant keywords are used that reflect that web pages content it will really help bigtime. especially after a good SEO campaign. Not sure how long this will last though because Google isnt making as much money with Adwords so im sure they'll come up with a way to screw us all and we will either need to change the game or change our internet search provider....BING BING BING BING lol


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## jackson27 (Feb 1, 2011)

Captions and alt tags are two different things. Some have Outlook and their phone setup to not show images unless they chose. So if you send out a Click the coupon to save 10% image and the person does not download the images, they do not see it. But if you do include alt tags, they will know what should be there and will click it.

Also, alt tags help with SEO if folks are doing image searches or other.

For instance, an alt tag may be "roofer putting shingles on house". If someone searches the net, they may find your site which increases your PR.


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## cbscreative (Dec 17, 2008)

jackson27 said:


> Captions and alt tags are two different things. Some have Outlook and their phone setup to not show images unless they chose. So if you send out a Click the coupon to save 10% image and the person does not download the images, they do not see it. But if you do include alt tags, they will know what should be there and will click it.


Excellent point! If you have a web page that is being used in an email campaign, this is critical. If I get an email without the alt filled in, I may flush it before loading the images. Seeing the alt text has been effective on more than one email that would have otherwise been deleted without loading the images.


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## cork-guy (May 1, 2010)

Ok, the anal part in me has to do this.. it's alt *ATTRIBUTE*, _it's not a tag_. A tag is a declaration of a HTML object whereas an Attribute is a property of an object. :thumbsup:

Second, this is the main things you need to worry about when it comes to optimizing images to rank well in Google Image Search.

1. Filename
2. Alt *Attribute*
3. Content on Page where Image is Displayed
4. Image Caption

Beyond image ranking the alt *attribute* will have no role in ranking your web pages. The whole concept of the alt *attribute* "before" search engines was to display text that describes an imagine if for some reason the view can't see the imagine. 

Sorry once again for going off about the tag\attribute issue, but seriously would anyone take you seriously if they knew this and watched you go on speaking about it completely wrong?


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## jackson27 (Feb 1, 2011)

@cork - You are mistaken. But hey, you run your site how you want to, and the rest of us will run ours the way we want to.


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## cork-guy (May 1, 2010)

jackson27 said:


> @cork - You are mistaken. But hey, you run your site how you want to, and the rest of us will run ours the way we want to.


Exactly which part am I mistaken by? Anyone that has an official voice from Google has stated that alt attributes are for images, all their blog posts and video tutorials are how they help image ranking. Plus, no one is telling you how to run your site, I just corrected a very simple issue of how it's not a tag, but an attribute. Understanding the difference should also explain why it wouldn't effect a web page's SERP and only the image.

The only reason I'd give "alt attribute helping rank web pages" a thought is the comment made on the below page.

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35769

Even that isn't concert enough if you ask me as it doesn't dictate if it's to help rank the image or the text button itself since it's not using a anchor text in the hyperlink.


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## AlanJackson (Jan 18, 2011)

yea they are important for SEO and google images too. name title and alt tags are important..


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## karunnt (Aug 27, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> So lets say for instance on this page from our website -
> 
> http://www.rockymountainbathrooms.com/bathtub-to-shower-conversion-ken-caryl-valley.htm



This page give no errors and 53 warnings on my HTML validator and 22 errors with my SEO 'validator'. Most of the SEO errors are ALT tag errors.


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## jackson27 (Feb 1, 2011)

Not that it really matters, but just to throw it in.

Years ago during the early days of HTML, you really needed/should use alt tags to describe your image. People would connect with dial up that they only downloaded the images they wanted to. If the image was not important, they would not download. The alt tag helped them determine if they should spend 5 minutes downloading images on the page.

Today, the tag/attribute means more for SEO.

Either way, use it. It will not hurt.... UNLESS, you give attributes to images within emails like newsletter. If you give the name coupon, special, offer, etc, those will pick up as spam keywords and will increase your spam score. That's a no no.


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## cork-guy (May 1, 2010)

...and they still go on using alt tag when it's an attribute :laughing:.

_Credibility say hello to window!_ :whistling


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## jackson27 (Feb 1, 2011)

cork-guy said:


> ...and they still go on using alt tag when it's an attribute :laughing:.
> 
> _Credibility say hello to window!_ :whistling



@cork-guy. Do you think anyone cares that it is refereed to as a tag instead of an attribute. My success is the only only credibility I need - not your opinion.

Besides that, do you think your cartoon avatar of a dysfunctional family with a talking dog speaks high of your credibility? :clap:

I responded to the thread to help a fellow member but yet, you come in here to criticize others. That may be what builds you up as a person but for me, helping others is my preference.


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## cork-guy (May 1, 2010)

*<long rant removed>*

I just hope readers of this thread understand as I've stated before that it's an alt attribute and not a tag. It's your choice to follow or believe in someone about something if they don't even understand properly what it is or what it's called.

References

http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_a.asp
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200508/html_tags_vs_elements_vs_attributes/
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_differences_between_tags_and_attribute


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