# Should i go Union or stick with big drywall company???



## groundzero2121 (Jul 31, 2008)

Hi, I currently work hourly for a big company in pittsburgh ($16/hr). my dad is a sub and he gets the footage rate (16.75/ft).. all we do is hanging, we can and have hung it all, extreme home makeovers with ty pennington to 45,000 sq ft. houses with about 125 sheets of 1/4 in them. what im saying is im 22 and i see all these illegals coming in and lowering prices throughout the country and with the economy the future doesnt look too good to me. Would i be better off joining the carpenters union and taking a pay cut (12.50/hr) while im an apprentice, and then once i finished that i would be around 20/hr and 27/hr max over time. but if i stuck with this company and got footage, i could probably make close to 60-70k/year. Im just not sure what to do and looking for advice on the future of drywall. I wanna believe that if your a good hanger and can do anything no matter how hard it is and can do it fast then i should be ok no matter what but im just not sure. Thanks for the advice.


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## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

well this is something you should discuss with your wife. ask yourself a bunch of questions see if it becomes more clear such as do you plan on staying in this trade, do you want maybe a little less pay but with higher job security or do you want no job security with possibly higher rewards, does your wife have benfits at her job ?? why pay for benefits twice you and her if your already covered under one or the other .


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## groundzero2121 (Jul 31, 2008)

im only 22 not married..... yet


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

groundzero2121 said:


> im only 22 not married..... yet


Then now is the time!


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

try over here as well:

http://www.i-boards.com/bnp/wc/


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

You may want to try your question over here as well:

http://www.i-boards.com/bnp/wc/


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

echo


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

Groundzero,

I would stay away from unions. 87%+ of all people in the trades are NON-UNION. They primarily rely on PLA's to survive because they can't compete otherwise:laughing:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Brickie said:


> Groundzero,
> 
> 87%+ of all people in the trades are NON-UNION. They primarily rely on PLA's to survive because they can't compete otherwise:laughing:


The 87%+ also rely on illegals because they can't compete otherwise


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Celtic said:


> The 87%+ also rely on illegals because they can't compete otherwise


glad you caught your mathematical error:laughing:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

mahlere said:


> glad you caught your mathematical error:laughing:


What 'chu talkin' bout Willis!









There is no _Last edited by Celtic; Today at 8:54 PM. Reason: Mathematical Error _ on that post :laughing:


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

Celtic said:


> The 87%+ also rely on illegals because they can't compete otherwise


 

Like I said, the union membership is dwindling bigtime: 



Unions want to bring illegal immigrants into fold
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060719/BUSINESS/607190541



*Unions Urge Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants *
*Legalized workers would be easier for labor to organize *
*by Steven Greenhouse*​

*http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/021700-02.htm*​ 



*Organizing Migrants and Illegals in Toledo*​*

AFL-CIO Boss John Sweeney visited Toledo recently to march with 500 migrant workers rallying for amnesty of illegal aliens. The AFL-CIO Boss brought with him $60,000 in workers’ forced-dues money to give to the Farm Labor Organizing Committee (FLOC). FLOC is moving beyond Ohio and North Carolina in hopes of organizing migrant farm workers in Georgia, South Carolina, and elsewhere, which could at least double its membership of 11,000.
In a speech, Sweeney called Congress’ efforts to secure America’s borders as “more than shameful.” In fact, Sweeney said the building of a fence to keep illegal aliens out of the country was “an international disgrace.” It appears that the way Sweeney looks at the world, every illegal alien stopped at the border is a new dues-paying member of the AFL-CIO — illegal or not.​ 
*

*http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbc...1001/NEWS08/610010345&SearchID=73258638361310*​


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Celtic said:


> What 'chu talkin' bout Willis!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


character is all about how a man acts when there is no proof, but he knows the truth


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

mahlere said:


> character is all about how a man acts when there is no proof, but he knows the truth


The true _measure of a man_ is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. 
- Samuel Johnson


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## AARC Drywall (May 11, 2008)

you will have to do some soul searching...think about the future of the union, and eventually they all will be non union. If you stick with the old man..you will have a name for yourself, and be better set when union d day comes....but also ask your self, is this reallly what i want to do, because it is subject to good and slow times..
I was union in a sawmill up till Aug 08, then gave it all to them to run my own company...but i worked 7 days a week for 5 years prior to make the business survive, so that i could draw a wage..but i had to sacerfice time with my kids etc...you dont have that yet, but now may be the time.

just my 2c

J


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Celtic said:


> The true _measure of a man_ is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
> - Samuel Johnson


as well as I treat you, I must measure quite well:clap:


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## boykinspaniel (Jan 12, 2008)

groundzero2121 said:


> Hi, I currently work hourly for a big company in pittsburgh ($16/hr). my dad is a sub and he gets the footage rate (16.75/ft).. all we do is hanging, we can and have hung it all, extreme home makeovers with ty pennington to 45,000 sq ft. houses with about 125 sheets of 1/4 in them. what im saying is im 22 and i see all these illegals coming in and lowering prices throughout the country and with the economy the future doesnt look too good to me. Would i be better off joining the carpenters union and taking a pay cut (12.50/hr) while im an apprentice, and then once i finished that i would be around 20/hr and 27/hr max over time. but if i stuck with this company and got footage, i could probably make close to 60-70k/year. Im just not sure what to do and looking for advice on the future of drywall. I wanna believe that if your a good hanger and can do anything no matter how hard it is and can do it fast then i should be ok no matter what but im just not sure. Thanks for the advice.


avoid the union unless you have connections there. You will be laid off and hustling or waiting for work more than working.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

mahlere said:


> as well as I treat you, I must measure quite well:clap:



I'm heading south in about an hour....are my pies paid for at DO?


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## Zendik (Sep 18, 2005)

I don't know how strong the union is where you are but...
The Carpenters Union offers benefits. 
Retirement.
Vacation.
Health.
Training.
Great wages.
You hang houses? What if all the residential goes down? You know how to hang CoreBoard? Lead Board? Demountable partitions? Frame metal studs? Acoustic ceilings?
Working non union wacking houses and you'll never learn the above or have the benefits. It's a no brainer. 
Here in Portland guys that hang houses make $15 if they have work. At the moment all that seems to be going on is commercial, here. Now, non union commercial guys are making $20 tops without benefits, at all. But, most if not all commercial work in Portland is union at the moment. Union guys are making $33.14 and add the benefits it's $44.70.


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

Zendik said:


> IYou hang houses? What if all the residential goes down? You know how to hang CoreBoard? Lead Board? Demountable partitions? Frame metal studs? Acoustic ceilings?
> Working non union wacking houses and you'll never learn the above or have the benefits. It's a no brainer.


 
You get benefits, training and a lot more working NON-UNION as well:


http://www.abc.org/


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Brickie said:


> You get benefits, training and a lot more working NON-UNION as well:
> 
> 
> http://www.abc.org/


So what makes the ABC any better/worse than a Union?


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## drywallr41 (Nov 13, 2008)

Stay where your at, learn everything you can from your old man.:thumbsup:


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

If you want to make more money per hour, but work a lot less... Go union. They'll promise you everything in the world, but the one thing they won't do is get enough work for you to make a living. You'll end up making a lot less.

If you want a future, stick with the drywall company and then branch out on your own after a few years. In that time go to school and take business classes.


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## Zendik (Sep 18, 2005)

Basically if you work for any company there should be layoffs. Thing is with unions only the best work. Think they will pay 33-44 bucks an hour for a guy that isn't worth it? This is what happens when shack wackers try and become union in a commercial world. They don't know what core board or lead board is then they can't get work because all they hung was houses. If you are new into the trade with only three or four years into it and have just been hanging houses you owe it to yourself to learn metal studs, acoustic ceilings and the entire commercial side. Why not? The more you know the more you work. 
Every company lays off but that doesn't mean you have to not work. If the union is slow work nonunion. You have to do what you have to do. But why not work union when you can? Build up some retirement and benefits. It can't hurt.


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## Brick House 24 (Jan 4, 2009)

*Tough Debate*

It is a tough decision since there are a lot of variables.

Is the union good in my area, or is a non-union company better?

I live in western PA, if there is any information that I should know about the union please inform me.


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## Zendik (Sep 18, 2005)

Brick House 24 said:


> It is a tough decision since there are a lot of variables.
> 
> Is the union good in my area, or is a non-union company better?
> 
> I live in western PA, if there is any information that I should know about the union please inform me.


You have to call your local union. 
Here's an example. Non union commercial drywall guys get about $20.00 an hour here but now since it's slow people are working for less. Here's a quote from Craigs list:
"The wages are from $9 per hour to $15 per hour as this is what the market is paying right now."
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/trd/979613308.html
That is downright offensive to me. The cost of the building is the same, the bid is the same but they want to pay workers less. Now if everyone was union this kind of crap would not exist. The union market is not $15.00 but 33.14 and with all benefits it's $44.70. Funny thing is if one were to go downtown and see all the big jobs going on they would soon find out they are all union. 
I just moved down here a few months ago. When I got here I was searching for a job and all the non union companies either don't have jobs or wanted to pay less. Regardless I was out of luck. First union company I walked into hired me without negotiating pay.


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## rock-it man (May 2, 2007)

I gotta agree with zendic! well said. You wanna learn your trade? join the union, go to school. They will teach you how to do all aspects of the acoustics trade. Frame with steel, wood,reading a print, layout, T-bar, u'bar,door frames, de-mountable partitions, aluminum frames, beads, insulation, vapor barrior, heavy gauge, and yes, drywall. Why limit yourself to one thing? I am a drywaller, but board is maybe 10-15% of my work. I make $30 an hour and I'm still an apprentice. We get 10% vacation pay, paid twice a year (3 grand right before christmas is nice.) full benefits for myself and my family. Trust me, this can make or break you once you have a kid (kids). My mother-in-law battled cancer for nine years and I don't know how they would have done all her treatments and perscriptions without my father-in-laws benefits. Im also puttin over four dollars an hour towards a pension, thats gunna add up quick over the 30 year before I retire. Right now it doest really make a difference to me, but one day thats gunna pay off. Its not less pay for easier work. Its good money, but you earn every cent. Union drywall isn't any lighter than non union, and Ive seen more 3/8 board in houses than 5/8 fire rated. But its not the gravy train some people think it is. You don't produce, your going home, just like every other job in the real world. They don't just keep cuttin you a check cause you have a uinion card. I don't know if I'll stay with this till I retire. I may just gain a few more years of experience and knowledge and turn my "side job" into my full time buisness. But if that doesnt work out, at least I know that I am garanteed my rate, anywhere I go.


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## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

rock-it man said:


> I gotta agree with zendic! well said. You wanna learn your trade? join the union, go to school. They will teach you how to do all aspects of the acoustics trade. Frame with steel, wood,reading a print, layout, T-bar, u'bar,door frames, de-mountable partitions, aluminum frames, beads, insulation, vapor barrior, heavy gauge, and yes, drywall. Why limit yourself to one thing? I am a drywaller, but board is maybe 10-15% of my work. I make $30 an hour and I'm still an apprentice. We get 10% vacation pay, paid twice a year (3 grand right before christmas is nice.) full benefits for myself and my family. Trust me, this can make or break you once you have a kid (kids). My mother-in-law battled cancer for nine years and I don't know how they would have done all her treatments and perscriptions without my father-in-laws benefits. Im also puttin over four dollars an hour towards a pension, thats gunna add up quick over the 30 year before I retire. Right now it doest really make a difference to me, but one day thats gunna pay off. Its not less pay for easier work. Its good money, but you earn every cent. Union drywall isn't any lighter than non union, and Ive seen more 3/8 board in houses than 5/8 fire rated. But its not the gravy train some people think it is. You don't produce, your going home, just like every other job in the real world. They don't just keep cuttin you a check cause you have a uinion card. I don't know if I'll stay with this till I retire. I may just gain a few more years of experience and knowledge and turn my "side job" into my full time buisness. But if that doesnt work out, at least I know that I am garanteed my rate, anywhere I go.


 
dont you lose all your pension , vacation investmenst if you go on your own??


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## rock-it man (May 2, 2007)

To tell you the truth, I'm not 100% sure how it works. The vacation pay is your money, It is %10 of your weekly wage added on to your pay, but it builds up over the year and you cash out. I think with the pension it is the same to a point. you allready made that money. I guess that is something I need to look into myself.


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