# Staircase Refinishing



## Tkelly (Dec 9, 2008)

Gentlemen,

Does anyone have any thoughts on this.....

Customer had staircase and railing installed, stained(mahogany.cherry color) and finished about 6 years ago. Since then, the stain has changed to a more reddish color and the finish has started to peel off and bubble in some areas. The peeled off pieces look and feel like clear plastic. Is this a case of water based poly being applied over oil stained wood? I would think oil and water do not mix and thus peeled.

Customer wants to sand, re-stain and re-coat. I assume this is probably the way to go. But what are my chances of making this look great when I am done...matching the stain to existing trim work and having everything sanded completely , into corners etc. and looking good after re-polying.

I appreciate any input on this.

Thanks,
Tom


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

yep you got your work cut out for you. The fein multimaster is great for sanding in tight corners. And you might want to start with a hardwood floor scraper to start with to get up some of the poly first. Its a nice looking balustrade, I think its going to look great when finished. 
The finishing is definetly beyond my scope I could see my self sanding and preping and letting some one that specializes in spraying have at it. Good luck hope to see some before and after pics


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

you MIGHT want to consult with a hardwood floor guy, as they deal with wood and stains on a regular basis.


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

I've got one of these coming up soon, just not as bad as yours. This isnt something have done a lot and I am happy about that! My plan on mine is to sand what I can with the random orbital and then detail sander for the corners and chemical stripper on the detail work. My job has around 12' of handrail and a 15' long or so hand rail that I can take outside and refinish (screwed to the wall), and stair treads only.
Is there existing trim you are trying to match? If not you are pretty good to go, a red mahogany stain should get you started.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Sanding this all down to re-stain would be a nightmare, especially since it would be nearly all hand-work. It looks as if only the finish has failed, so I'd spend some time working on a way to remove just that. We've encountered similar problems in the past and the simplest solution has been the handyman's secret weapon: duct tape. We've used it to remove all of the failed coating by sticking it on, then pulling if off, along with the failed coating. If that doesn't work, I'd try some stripper. In either case, I'd follow the removal of the failed coating with a seal coat of shellac and then a stain/toner to adjust the color before applying a new topcoat.


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## Pete'sfeets (Mar 20, 2011)

A seal coat of shellac? I thought that wasn't allowed under poly or would you use a top coat of waterbased. I'm a bit behind the times, not my post though, perhaps I'll just sit and watch for the end notes.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Pete'sfeets said:


> A seal coat of shellac? I thought that wasn't allowed under poly or would you use a top coat of waterbased. I'm a bit behind the times, not my post though, perhaps I'll just sit and watch for the end notes.


We use either SealCoat (which is dewaxed) or make our own from scratch and dewax it. It provides a barrier coat from the previous layers and helps control the stain that we use as a toner. We've never had a problem following the shellac with solvent-based poly. Since timing of the application of water-based poly over solvent-based stains can be a problem, I'd stick with solvent-based.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I'd plan on 24 - 32 hours of sanding. Plus coating, clean up, dust prevention etc...


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

You really haven't lived until you've run a multimaster for eight hours straight.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Metro M & L said:


> You really haven't lived until you've run a multimaster for eight hours straight.


Just looking at the pics made my hands hurt.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Metro M & L said:


> I'd plan on 24 - 32 hours of sanding. Plus coating, clean up, dust prevention etc...


That's the reason that I'd try some other approaches.


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## Tkelly (Dec 9, 2008)

Guys,

Thanks for the input

CarrPainting - You are the second person to tell me that. I think you are correct I know you can sand and bleach wood etc. But that being said, it's a lot easier to do on a floor then on a staircase.

SuperiporHIP - yes I am matching existing trim (reddish-mahogony color), so I am concerned about how closely I can match it. I really have never used chemical strippers before. I'm a bit hesitant about using them in the main foyer of someone's house.

Gough - the stain has changed and become a lighter, redder color. The homeowner wants to re-stain it to a darker mahogany color to match existing trim. The duct tape sounds like a good idea but I imagine it can only pull off loose sections. Does that method work for a majority of a project, even sound areas?

My thoughts are to rig up some canopies of plastic over the stairway. Sand as much with power sanders as possible. Multi-tool the corners. Hand sand with blocks if I have to in the stair corners. Hand sand the railing. I'm not sure what to do with the spiral newel posts, hand sand and muti-tool sand? I would hate to chemically strip one area and not others for fear of them looking different.

Thanks again!


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Tkelly said:


> Guys,
> 
> Thanks for the input
> 
> ...


T:

We've had great luck with the duct tape, but YMMV. Careful scraping may also be worth trying, we've had some jobs where the topcoat just pops off with a scraper. As I've said, I'd spend a fair amount of time trying to come up with an alternative to sanding. Sanding down to clean wood (i.e., eliminating the exisiting stain) is generally a ton of work and not very satisfactory on fancy work. 

The trick to killing the red is to add some green (the comlimentary color) to the toning stain.

Good luck.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Might be faster to take down the railing and rebuild to suit, the treads would sand pretty easy. You could also dismantle it and then have the pieces dipped at a professional stripping retailer.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Metro M & L said:


> Might be faster to take down the railing and rebuild to suit, the treads would sand pretty easy. You could also dismantle it and then have the pieces dipped at a professional stripping retailer.


If the existing finish won't come off with duct-tape or cabinet scrapers, I'd agree that this might be the best approach, especially if you also pull the cove mouldings on the risers/carriages, etc. If you can dismantle it to the point that you are only sanding flats, you'd be way ahead of the game. From our experience, the only really hard spot that that would leave would be the inside corners where the riser and tread meet the housed stringer.


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## abs12 (Apr 18, 2011)

*Same situation*

I joined this site to find a solution to the same type of job... what a great resource.

I am doing basically the same thing for a customer who wants all woodwork stained darker to match new wood floors. My question is about applying the stain. Do I need to get down to bare wood if I am staining darker? I have received conflicting advice. Someone said I can "scuff up" the poly, stain and re-apply the top coats. This doesn't seem right to me but if I can avoid all the sanding, I am up for it. Is there a good stripper to use for this type of job?


Also, what is a good stain/top coat to use for the risers, treads, handrails, and newel posts? I typically use Sherwin Williams paint products. Is there anything out there that doesn't require days between coats but is still easy to work with?


For my job, I was able to up sell new iron balusters (something the homeowner wanted anyway). I explained that they will be saving on labor (not having to sand around each baluster) and now would be the time to do it. Could be an option for you as well.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can share.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

I have a few more basic thoughts. Don't know if you have done a stain refinish job like this before, if not then be prepared for a hard bit of sanding, and a tricky bit of colour matching: and bid accordingly.

From the pictures and with the fact that they are willing to go through all this work/expense for a colour variation I would guess they are sticklers/neatnicks? Realize they may have a very exact end result in mind and may be a challenge on living with the process.

Bid accordingly, this seems like one of those jobs that could devolve into a hassle to meet expectations & get paid.

That said, a couple folks have already given better actual detailed advice than I got; but I would second the Fein and I would suggest these which were on my acquire list when I had a job similar to that.

http://festools-online.com/index.ph...ne-sander-ct-midi-dust-extractor-package.html

http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/20...ode=10INGOPB&gclid=CJOjgPGJp6gCFUMUKgodFWRiIQ

If you go for it and get it, definitely share some pics.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

abs12 said:


> I joined this site to find a solution to the same type of job... what a great resource.
> 
> I am doing basically the same thing for a customer who wants all woodwork stained darker to match new wood floors. My question is about applying the stain. Do I need to get down to bare wood if I am staining darker? I have received conflicting advice. Someone said I can "scuff up" the poly, stain and re-apply the top coats. This doesn't seem right to me but if I can avoid all the sanding, I am up for it. Is there a good stripper to use for this type of job?
> 
> ...


You should post an intro *before* hijacking some one's thread. :whistling


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## abs12 (Apr 18, 2011)

Moorewarner, you will have to excuse my forum etiquette, I am not familiar with how these things work.

I am not sure what you mean by posting an intro. I will certainly do that if you can let me know where to go. I did not mean to "hijack anyone's thread" either. It seemed to be on topic...


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

abs12 said:


> Moorewarner, you will have to excuse my forum etiquette, I am not familiar with how these things work.
> 
> I am not sure what you mean by posting an intro. I will certainly do that if you can let me know where to go. I did not mean to "hijack anyone's thread" either. It seemed to be on topic...


Go here,

http://www.contractortalk.com/f44/

and let know folks know a little about yourself. It's a CT tradition. :thumbsup:


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