# Fun with Plastic- Crazy prep you've had to do



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

I thought it would be cool if we could have a thread to post photos of projects that took some interesting prep work before you could start painting. 

So if you got'em post'em! :thumbup:

Here's a lanai I just started on the back of the home that we're doing all of the exterior painting at. It's a combination cedar siding, ceder soffits and stucco. Spraying just makes sense to me on this one since were doing 3 coats (one coat of tinted multi-surface conditioner primer and two coats of 100% acrylic satin paint). 























































Vents to get air moving in the plastic bubble to help dry the paint.


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Inside the bubble.














































It's not quite finished yet.


----------



## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Sheesh, that doesn't look like fun at all.:no:

Vents to help dry the paint or keep you from melting in there?:laughing:


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Sometimes spraying is a waste of time unless you're a slow painter.


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

I swear...whoever comes up with a reusable toilet cover will be rich...


----------



## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Driftweed said:


> I swear...whoever comes up with a reusable toilet cover will be rich...


Or "disposable" plastic drops that are manufactured to decompose and be truly disposable. Use by exp date or the product starts to disintegrate. Based on the idea of rice candy wrappings.


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

avenge said:


> Sometimes spraying is a waste of time unless you're a slow painter.


:laughing:
Those who know the least prove it the loudest. 

Two painters
*Prep (including sprayer set up)*- 1.5 hours
*3 coats primer and paint (10 minutes per coat)*- 30 minutes
*Clean up (including sprayer break breakdown)*- 20 minutes 
*Total hours*- 2 hours 20 minutes

While the paint was drying between coats were able to work on other areas of the home. 

Avenge, I contend that you and another painter couldn't have even got the first coat of primer on in that amount of time. Let alone two more coats. :laughing:

PS. Don't knock it till you own an airless sprayer and know how to use it. :thumbsup:


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Sir Mixalot said:


> :laughing:
> Those who know the least prove it the loudest.
> 
> Two painters
> ...


I wasn't implying that your particular job was a waste of time being sprayed. I just run into so many instances where I can brush and roll it faster. I do own a sprayer and know how to use it, doesn't take much talent to use one. 

I've been painting for 39 years and I've NEVER had anyone beat me in speed accuracy and neatness. You don't think I can paint the body 3 times in 4hrs-40 minutes by myself?


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

avenge said:


> I wasn't implying that your particular job was a waste of time being sprayed. I just run into so many instances where I can brush and roll it faster. I do own a sprayer and know how to use it, doesn't take much talent to use one.
> 
> I've been painting for 39 years and I've NEVER had anyone beat me in speed accuracy and neatness. You don't think I can paint the body 3 times in 4hrs-40 minutes by myself?


Ok, now you are being really dumb. 

Do you HONESTLY think anyone is going to believe that you can brush & roll faster than spray?

I lol'ed


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Driftweed said:


> Ok, now you are being really dumb.
> 
> Do you HONESTLY think anyone is going to believe that you can brush & roll faster than spray?
> 
> I lol'ed



I just knew someone would come and post that. No you can't brush & roll faster than you can spray. I'm talking about equipment setup, cleanup and prep for spraying. That's not factoring in the cost of equipment usage, sprayer, tip, paper, plastic, paper. If it only took them 10 minutes per coat to spray I certainly can't brush and roll it in 10 minutes.

But I'm pretty sure based on those pics I can brush and roll 3 coats on the body and ceiling in close to the same amount of time. And what did they do with the rig between primer and paint?


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Keep talking...

The TIME SAVED pays for the very things you just mentioned.

You really want to break it down? 

Tip last over 100 gal (we will use that as a conservative #) @$25 = $2.50/gallon. Even though we all know they last longer.

Plastic & tape... Lets be generous & budget $50

Loading/purging sprayer 15 min @ $50/hr

Cleanup the same (pulling plastic/clean sprayer/load into van) 

So...max you spent $100 to spray.

Now, lets check your brush setup:

Brush: $15
Roller cover: $5
Reusable drop cloth: meh $1 
Roller pan/ liners: $0.50

Cleanup time: toss roller sleeve & brush, fold tarp so lets be lazy & call 15 minutes 

$25 sundries + $13 time $38 bucks

100 - 38 = $62

@ $50/hr thats 1.24 hrs

So do you spend 1 1/2 hrs pay to save multiple hours work?

Nah, artists dont need to make $$

38 years, & still not a businessman. It took me a whole year to figure that math out. Some take longer....

Please dont dis those who have figured out this simple formula. 

If you dont want to recognize the profit potential of using power tools, refrain from posting in threads about it. Instead, stick to the hand tool threads.


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

You seem to want to argue for no apparent reason, I already said I didn't mean to imply his particular project was a waste of time being sprayed. I never said I can do it faster only that I can brush and roll it in CLOSE to the same amount of time. The only money spent for 2 rollers. Ya I may work hard doing it.

I also never said profit couldn't be made by spraying. I hate masking and I hate cleanup. I'm also not fond of being in a spray booth and wearing a mask. When you've been doing this as long as I have you'll find yourself just not wanting to do certain things anymore even if it costs a little time. I've been in business 25 years and one thing I've learned it isn't ALWAYS about profit and production. 

And I don't us pans and liners and I don't toss brushes. I also have plenty of other power tools I make a lot more profit with and without the hassle.

So go ahead and argue and get back to me when you're older.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Nice job Paul. What brand paint did you use for the primer? 

Sometimes masking and plastic is worth it ! Reminds me I'm running low on plastic and tape too.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

I did some experimenting with different kinds of tape and methods of taping on this set of cabs. It's a European set with a lot of glass and I only had to do the outside of the doors so it didn't really make sense to take them apart. 

In comparing frog tape with 3m delicate, I found that the frog tape came off the glass cleaner, but was harder to remove. The 3m left a little bit of residue but came off easier. 
Some of the glass I used paper with tape just around the edges and some I used just tape. The doors with the paper came off easier. Both the 3m and frog tape left perfect lines. 


























I love peeling the tape, its like opening a Christmas present!




















My first attempt at posting pics with this app, hope they load right. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Jmayspaint said:


> I did some experimenting with different kinds of tape and methods of taping on this set of cabs. It's a European set with a lot of glass and I only had to do the outside of the doors so it didn't really make sense to take them apart.
> 
> In comparing frog tape with 3m delicate, I found that the frog tape came off the glass cleaner, but was harder to remove. The 3m left a little bit of residue but came off easier.
> Some of the glass I used paper with tape just around the edges and some I used just tape. The doors with the paper came off easier. Both the 3m and frog tape left perfect lines.
> ...


Very nice work Josh! :thumbup:
Perfect lines for sure! :clap:


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Big Shoe said:


> Nice job Paul. What brand paint did you use for the primer?
> 
> Sometimes masking and plastic is worth it ! Reminds me I'm running low on plastic and tape too.


Thank you. :thumbsup:
For the primer I used a multi-surface conditioner called Rich Flex by Richards Paint. And for the Paint I used Richards Signature Series Satin. This whole job was spec'd out and inspected by the Richards Rep for a manufacturer's 7 year product and labor warranty. :thumbup:


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Same exterior painting project. 
Thursday and Friday we painted the west end of the house that had several rusted electrical boxes and nail heads in the cedar siding.

After we treated the rust, I used the airless to spray all of the boxes, pipes, conduit, siding, soffits, gutter, drip edge, downspouts and stucco.


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)




----------



## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Looks like a great paint job. But jeesus, who was picking colors? Both old and new are tough to take.


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Morning Wood said:


> Looks like a great paint job. But jeesus, who was picking colors? Both old and new are tough to take.


Thanks MW. :thumbsup:
I gotta say though, the new colors look amazing in person! :thumbup:


----------



## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Thanks MW. :thumbsup: I gotta say though, the new colors look amazing in person! :thumbup:


 I forgot you're in Florida.


----------



## PennCoat (Apr 15, 2014)

Here's are some pics of a popcorn processing plant that we just finished last week. It was about 50,000 sf after you consider the corrugation factor, the bar joists, and i-beams. The grease was so thick and hard (the area had been in-operable for a few years and just now getting back to code) that it required 2-3 applications of detergent, and hot water turbo-tipped power washing. We didn't get a close up of the ceiling when we initially estimated, so we went about 20% over our time budget. But luckily, we applied Optibond, which adhered better than anticipated. So we managed to get back into our initial budget.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Morning Wood said:


> I forgot you're in Florida.


Colors look different in Florida.


----------



## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

avenge said:


> You seem to want to argue for no apparent reason, I already said I didn't mean to imply his particular project was a waste of time being sprayed. I never said I can do it faster only that I can brush and roll it in CLOSE to the same amount of time. The only money spent for 2 rollers. Ya I may work hard doing it.
> 
> I also never said profit couldn't be made by spraying. I hate masking and I hate cleanup. I'm also not fond of being in a spray booth and wearing a mask. When you've been doing this as long as I have you'll find yourself just not wanting to do certain things anymore even if it costs a little time. I've been in business 25 years and one thing I've learned it isn't ALWAYS about profit and production.
> 
> ...


I'm really not trying to keep the argument going BUT I have to vote for the spraying. You say you hate masking don't know if you have one or not but a 3M hand masker almost makes masking a non issue. And really I think a door or window can be masked as quickly if not quicker than cutting in. And the "ya I may be working hard to do it" have you not heard the phrase work smarter not harder.

"It's not always about profit and production" yes, it is, in one way or another even on a bad job we learn how not to do something and that will increase our profit and production the next time. "I hate clean up" I really don't see where there is more clean up for spraying than not spraying.

Just my opinion but anyone who is not spraying when feasible, and I know there are situations where spraying is not, is cheating themselves out of potential earnings just in the time saved. With the new tips, and new guns. and the new sprayers, a sprayers worst enemy "overspray" can be pretty much controlled.
Sorry rant over.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

I get tired of spraying sometimes myself, and some painters work there whole career without ever spraying anything and do just fine. 
But the fact is, without spray capabilities you limit yourself greatly on what kind of jobs you can be competitive on. Some things simply can't be done in a reasonably efficient manner without spraying. 

In 2014 a painter that doesn't spray is like a carpenter that doesn't use nail guns. And that's totally fine, there are some masters out there that just like to stick with the hand tools. There is certainly a niche market for that kind of work. On the whole though, I don't believe a paint company can compete in the majority of today's market without spray capabilities. 

I get the impression that most of the people that think spraying doesn't save time because of "all the masking/clean up hassle" just haven't done it enough, or been trained in professional spraying systems.


----------



## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

Very well said.


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Also, once an area is prepped and ready for spraying. You can spray as many coats as needed with ease. Which is a time saver especially if it's an entire interior or exterior paint job.

A lot of my interior repaints are remodels which require me spraying the walls with a texture like orange peel or knockdown. So most of the prep is already ready for spray priming and painting. 
So it's a win win for me.:thumbup:


----------



## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Yeah, the humidity in Florida makes the colors look different.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Also, once an area is prepped and ready for spraying. You can spray as many coats as needed with ease. Which is a time saver especially if it's an entire interior or exterior paint job.
> 
> A lot of my interior repaints are remodels which require me spraying the walls with a texture like orange peel or knockdown. So most of the prep is already ready for spray priming and painting.
> So it's a win win for me.:thumbup:


Yeah, who has the area all prepped already only to turn around and say "Ok boys, lets unmask everything so we can brush and roll!" :no:


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

smalpierre said:


> Yeah, who has the area all prepped already only to turn around and say "Ok boys, lets unmask everything so we can brush and roll!" :no:


Well most painters don't do drywall and texturing either.:no:

So the prep would most likely already be pulled down. 
If it wasn't, I would be leary of spraying over someone elses prep.:thumbsup:


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Morning Wood said:


> Yeah, the humidity in Florida makes the colors look different.


You people from the Northeast love it though. Because there sure is a lot of youz down heya.

But they're always sure to say how much better it is back home.:laughing:


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Well most painters don't do drywall and texturing either.:no:
> 
> So the prep would most likely already be pulled down.
> If it wasn't, I would be leary of spraying over someone elses prep.:thumbsup:


I'm sure not spraying over someone elses masking, that's asking for trouble. I don't spray much inside, but after reading Driftweed's procedure I might just try it :thumbsup: That is, IF I can get one that doesn't involve moving 5 tons of furniture out of the room to do so :laughing:


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Sir Mixalot said:


> You people from the Northeast love it though. Because there sure is a lot of youz down heya.
> 
> But they're always sure to say how much better it is back home.:laughing:


They can keep the frozen north! Autumn in the Hudson River Valley is gorgeous - but a bit chilly. Winter up there is awful. The overabundance of weenies is intolerable.

I really enjoyed my time up there in a lot of ways, but my theory on the place is: It's a great place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there!

Did you know that it's legal for women to go topless in NY? They don't of course ... so I'll take the beach :clap:


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

smalpierre said:


> I'm sure not spraying over someone elses masking, that's asking for trouble. I don't spray much inside, but after reading Driftweed's procedure I might just try it :thumbsup: That is, IF I can get one that doesn't involve moving 5 tons of furniture out of the room to do so :laughing:


I am actually going to put that procedure to the test in a couple weeks when I train my new employee. I'm hoping I can teach it to him. We will see if it truly is an art, or something that can be learned. 

Don't get me wrong, I love me some plastic. Especially those creative windows sir mixalot did. I will definitely have to remember that, I just tear a hole, but his windows are so pretty.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Driftweed said:


> I am actually going to put that procedure to the test in a couple weeks when I train my new employee. I'm hoping I can teach it to him. We will see if it truly is an art, or something that can be learned.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love me some plastic. Especially those creative windows sir mixalot did. I will definitely have to remember that, I just tear a hole, but his windows are so pretty.


I'm sure that if you've got the right guy it's a teachable system.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

You do realize it's going to be excruciatingly painful being your helpers helper as you teach him right? Resist the temptation to tear the spray gun out of his hand though - unless he's REALLY screwing up


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

ToolNut said:


> I'm really not trying to keep the argument going BUT I have to vote for the spraying. You say you hate masking don't know if you have one or not but a 3M hand masker almost makes masking a non issue. And really I think a door or window can be masked as quickly if not quicker than cutting in. And the "ya I may be working hard to do it" have you not heard the phrase work smarter not harder.
> 
> "It's not always about profit and production" yes, it is, in one way or another even on a bad job we learn how not to do something and that will increase our profit and production the next time. "I hate clean up" I really don't see where there is more clean up for spraying than not spraying.
> 
> ...





Jmayspaint said:


> I get tired of spraying sometimes myself, and some painters work there whole career without ever spraying anything and do just fine.
> But the fact is, without spray capabilities you limit yourself greatly on what kind of jobs you can be competitive on. Some things simply can't be done in a reasonably efficient manner without spraying.
> 
> In 2014 a painter that doesn't spray is like a carpenter that doesn't use nail guns. And that's totally fine, there are some masters out there that just like to stick with the hand tools. There is certainly a niche market for that kind of work. On the whole though, I don't believe a paint company can compete in the majority of today's market without spray capabilities.
> ...


I've done my fair share of spraying over the last 3 decades. I can spray all day long everyday. It's the prep I don't like doing if it's a small amount no big deal, if it's a lot I'll have a laborer do it. My hand masker is probably older than you.

I once worked for a guy that thought every job could be sprayed, it was actually a joke. A lot of splatter walls, popcorn ceilings then spray, while wet. We once got kicked out of an all girls school while spraying the stairways and it was going through the ventilation system.

I just drywalled a garage, I used Kilz due to the old discolored drywall that was already up. Did I spray it, no but I did spray the finish coat. Some of it just wasn't practical to mask off.

I don't get many jobs where spraying can even be done, all my exteriors bodies are sprayed. But I don't do many exteriors. Most of the painting I do is part of a remodeling job and I charge the same for painting as I do remodeling.

I'll say it again it's not always about profit and production for me and I've been doing this long enough to know if spraying is going to be practical, time saving and give me the same quality job or just save me a couple hours work.

I'm old school, I don't paint woodwork before the walls. I worked 10 years for one of the top painting co's. in the area that frowned on most spraying. We once painted a sculptured plaster ceiling at the Busch Mansion it was 25' high and 4000 sq. ft. It had 1' squares with moldings and a medallion in the center of each square. We did that ceiling with a brush and flat oil. Why did he not spray it? Because first the money wasn't an issue but the risk of getting spray paint on the wood walls that ran 20' feet up and other belongings in the room he just thought the risk was too great. They hardly ever sprayed it just wasn't their rep and the way they did things.

There's a big difference in how things are done today compared to my day just like things I do today compared to the people before me.

You know what they called roller poles when they first came out....idiot sticks.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I do paint woodwork before walls. I lap the paint a bit on the wall because it makes it easier to get a good clean line. I could paint the woodwork after, but then I'd have to cut the wall to the wood, then cut the wood to the wall. You can't lap the other way if you're painting the trim with oil.

Why would they call poles "idiot sticks"? All they do is keep you from having to jump on a ladder, or overextend yourself. There is zero reduction of quality using a pole. How did you guys paint ceilings before the pole - a 3' scaffold? Brushed?

That being said - I brush exteriors pretty frequently. When I spray them, I use cardboard shields, and stuff them under the shingle, and use those to shield the brick too - one in hand. When the one in my hand gets loaded I throw it to the ground, and have a guy put them in the sun to dry - and hand me another. On an eave, I lay it on top of the gutter if those are getting painted.

It's better to take the gutters down so I can replace fascia that's rotten, get it primed and painted and after I'm done send in the gutter guys to upgrade to 6".

In the time I can brush out a gable end, sometimes spraying doesn't really help all that much. I like brushing because you're not just throwing paint on the surface, it's getting forced onto the surface. I get the feeling that better adhesion is the result, but it might just be me being a nitpicker.

I've worked with guys that will spray windows and lap onto the glass without any kind of masking - and scrape it. "You're sposta reestablish the wood to glass seal" - yeah, then you're cutting into that seal with a scraper. I'll brush them thankyouverymuch!

Does it take me longer? Probably. Do I charge for it? Absolutely. While I'm sure there are guys that can do the job faster - I'm pretty certain there isn't anybody that can do it BETTER.

The only time I really break out a spray rig is when there's a ton of siding, or the cornice is just easier to spray - as in they're not replacing gutters so they get painted too (which I don't like to do).


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

smalpierre said:


> I do paint woodwork before walls. I lap the paint a bit on the wall because it makes it easier to get a good clean line. I could paint the woodwork after, but then I'd have to cut the wall to the wood, then cut the wood to the wall. You can't lap the other way if you're painting the trim with oil.
> 
> Why would they call poles "idiot sticks"? All they do is keep you from having to jump on a ladder, or overextend yourself. There is zero reduction of quality using a pole. How did you guys paint ceilings before the pole - a 3' scaffold? Brushed?


All woodwork was done with oil so you couldn't do the woodwork first, latex won't stick to oil and the drying time was too slow. I can cut a cleaner line on woodwork than on the walls, that's a huge difference in today's painter's. To me cutting in the walls when the woodwork is being painted feels awkward. I brushed oil trim almost everyday for 10 years. Not to have a big ego but I was in very high demand and very well paid because of my brushing skills. Brushing skills is what separates the true painter from the slop jocks.

There was a time they didn't have rollers everything was brushed. That was before my time. There are a lot of people that can't roll with a pole. So back in the day they probably had a hard time getting used to a roller pole. I knew a guy that just couldn't get the hang of a power roller, he hated it and he was a good painter.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

avenge said:


> All woodwork was done with oil so you couldn't do the woodwork first, latex won't stick to oil and the drying time was too slow. I can cut a cleaner line on woodwork than on the walls, that's a huge difference in today's painter's. To me cutting in the walls when the woodwork is being painted feels awkward. I brushed oil trim almost everyday for 10 years. Not to have a big ego but I was in very high demand and very well paid because of my brushing skills. Brushing skills is what separates the true painter from the slop jocks.
> 
> There was a time they didn't have rollers everything was brushed. That was before my time. There are a lot of people that can't roll with a pole. So back in the day they probably had a hard time getting used to a roller pole. I knew a guy that just couldn't get the hang of a power roller, he hated it and he was a good painter.


I like to lap a blonde hair to get a clean line. The latex I use sticks to the oil - at least it does for the little hair I lap. Oil cracks over latex though so I don't ever overlap oil onto latex. Usually I'm trimming in pro classic water base, but I do like me some oil. There's just no matching the finish. The trim does have to be really tight to lap though. I don't caulk where oil is going - also too flexible and the oil will crack.

I've always thought of power rollers as a homeowner targeted gimmick. Does anybody actually use those? The 18" roller with collossus cover works pretty good for me, not sure what a power roller would gain me over that.

I could be going about it all wrong though, stranger things have happened!


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

smalpierre said:


> I like to lap a blonde hair to get a clean line. The latex I use sticks to the oil - at least it does for the little hair I lap. Oil cracks over latex though so I don't ever overlap oil onto latex. Usually I'm trimming in pro classic water base, but I do like me some oil. There's just no matching the finish. The trim does have to be really tight to lap though. I don't caulk where oil is going - also too flexible and the oil will crack.
> 
> I've always thought of power rollers as a homeowner targeted gimmick. Does anybody actually use those? The 18" roller with collossus cover works pretty good for me, not sure what a power roller would gain me over that.
> 
> I could be going about it all wrong though, stranger things have happened!


You don't caulk where oil is going? I don't recall having that issue but I have been on a mission to find decent latex caulk seems they're all crap now.

Power rollers were originally geared towards contractors, hook them up to your sprayer and go. Well they may speed up rolling but they also add weight and can be awkward, I would never buy one.


----------



## JakethePainter (May 23, 2014)

smalpierre said:


> I've always thought of power rollers as a homeowner targeted gimmick. Does anybody actually use those? The 18" roller with collossus cover works pretty good for me, not sure what a power roller would gain me over that.
> 
> I could be going about it all wrong though, stranger things have happened!


Just like most tools they have their place. We recently used them on some 150' tall grain silos where we couldn't spray because of the proximity of a retail parking lot. You'd be surprised at the ammount of time you save not having to dip your roller when you have a few hundred thousand square feet to roll. It also helps get correct and consistant mil thickness on paints with high build requirements.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

avenge said:


> You don't caulk where oil is going? I don't recall having that issue but I have been on a mission to find decent latex caulk seems they're all crap now.
> 
> Power rollers were originally geared towards contractors, hook them up to your sprayer and go. Well they may speed up rolling but they also add weight and can be awkward, I would never buy one.


The trim has to be tight. I use as little caulk as possible, try to use a caulk that sets hard, or another filler.

Ok, when you said power roller I guess I was thinking of that stupid bazooka tube paint pole full of paint with a roller on the end. I saw that thing a long time ago and laughed. By the time that thing gets set up, I've already rolled out the whole room :laughing:


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

JakethePainter said:


> Just like most tools they have their place. We recently used them on some 150' tall grain silos where we couldn't spray because of the proximity of a retail parking lot. You'd be surprised at the ammount of time you save not having to dip your roller when you have a few hundred thousand square feet to roll. It also helps get correct and consistant mil thickness on paints with high build requirements.


Yeah, I looked up the real power rollers, and sure I can see how they could have their place. Anti-fouling paint for roll and tipping boat bottoms - you're often in awkward positions to get to a roller tray. That grain silo where there's a lot of field, but overspray is out of the question.

You couldn't use dryfall on the grain silos?


----------



## JakethePainter (May 23, 2014)

I asked the same thing. We couldnt get a decent guareantee from the manufacturer of the exterior dryfall we use was the answer I got. We ended up running 2 coats of loxon XP at 15 mils per coat.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

JakethePainter said:


> I asked the same thing. We couldnt get a decent guareantee from the manufacturer of the exterior dryfall we use was the answer I got. We ended up running 2 coats of loxon XP at 15 mils per coat.


Isn't that just a masonry primer?


----------



## JakethePainter (May 23, 2014)

Loxon is. Loxon xp is a topcoat.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/catalog/loxon-xp-masonry-coating/

"direct to concrete and masonry high build ..."

Not to say that once something is primed it's a-ok. Sherwins lines can be a little confusing at times. The all surface enamel is supposedly the DTM formula that they bought. I've put it straight on masonry with really durable results other than a little wear on the tread surfaces. Maybe I should have used XP, or something else (2 part urethane, 2 part epoxy primer) but I had it, so I used it.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Masonry silos? Most I've seen are metal so I pictured metal. Now that I re-read you didn't say anything about metal silos!


----------



## JakethePainter (May 23, 2014)

Yep. 135 and 150 foot tall poured masonry silos. There was 76 of them plus an elevator. Stripped em down with 6000 psi power washers and cyclone tips and then recoated. Plus two coats mio aluminum on all the mechanicals. Wouldn't have been a bad job if I wasn't nearly 1200 miles from home to do it. 

For horizontal surfaces we normally run epoxies and high solid epoxy primers. Im much less familiar with our floor covering services than I am with the rest of our services but I've been on some pretty cool ones since I came on with this company. Did a 94000 square foot floor in indiana complete with line striping, fork lift lanes and pedestrian traffic lanes. We just finished up the floor in a new brewery In Chicago a couple weeks back.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Damn that's a lot of work! How many guys? How long did it take? I hope you made a good lick on them!


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I like 2 part epoxies and urethanes better. The moisture curing urethanes aren't bad for some applications though. Urethanes are more UV stable (don't yellow), and are more abrasion resistant, so I like that for topcoats on floors - but I've only done things like garage floors and I don't do a ton of them.

the high solids epoxies are epoxies that have already been cured, then ground up and put in paint. I just don't see much advantage in that vs the epoxy adhering itself other than VOC's. The "urethane" acrylic is basically the same thing - cured urethane ground up in acrylic paint.

At least that's my gathering of it. On cars the epoxy adheres to the metal better than urethane, but urethane is a better topcoat - the best auto painting system is 2 part epoxy primer, 2 part urethane topcoat. There are 1 part systems available, but they are nowhere near as good.


----------



## JakethePainter (May 23, 2014)

We had revolving crews stay a month at a time at first and then shortened it to two weeks at a time. Each crew was 4-5 guys and we had two on site at all time with an overlap of a few days to transition the next crew back into work each time there was a crew change. It took about 3 months of 12 hour days. 

I sure hope we made money on em! Im just a foreman and I didn't run that one so I have no idea to be honest.


----------



## JakethePainter (May 23, 2014)

Huh. You learn something every day. Last time I ran a floor we were using carboline. Time before thatbwas weathershield by SW. I never dealt with epoxy coatings or floor coatings prior to this company so when I get a project like that I just use whatever shows up. Luckily this place has an awesome training program so Im able to get a real education on products and services im unfamiliar with.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

JakethePainter said:


> We had revolving crews stay a month at a time at first and then shortened it to two weeks at a time. Each crew was 4-5 guys and we had two on site at all time with an overlap of a few days to transition the next crew back into work each time there was a crew change. It took about 3 months of 12 hour days.
> 
> I sure hope we made money on em! Im just a foreman and I didn't run that one so I have no idea to be honest.


Damn, they were averaging between 1-2 silos / day? Scaffolding, power washed, and painted??? Those guys were BALLIN! Heck, even just applying the coating they were ballin!


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

JakethePainter said:


> Huh. You learn something every day. Last time I ran a floor we were using carboline. Time before thatbwas weathershield by SW. I never dealt with epoxy coatings or floor coatings prior to this company so when I get a project like that I just use whatever shows up. Luckily this place has an awesome training program so Im able to get a real education on products and services im unfamiliar with.


I don't do much with those kinds of coatings, but I do know what I like on a boat or a car. I was looking at a garage floor coating job so I did pretty exhaustive research and came up with a surprise ... the urethane top coat. I knew I'd find the 2 part would be the way to go, but I thought for sure epoxy would be it. It was a lot more research than necessary probably, but I wanted to KNOW since I have heard stories of hot tires peeling coatings. I think the prep is the most important regardless though.

I think there's some surfaces that it's not so great with, and it's not as flexible as urethane (I'm talking 2 part here) nor is it as abrasion resistant but I think there are some applications where epoxy topcoats have an advantage. Maybe resistance to certain chemicals.

I like 2 part for urethane or epoxy, but the 1 part systems can be good too. 1 part boat paints are supposed to be a lot easier to touch up so maybe that's a factor. It all depends on how it's being used.


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

The fumes will knock a buzzard off a chit wagon though!


----------



## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

We painted a large open popcorn ceiling last week. The popcorn had been painted before and most of it was in good shape so we decided to roll it out. 

One area above the fireplace had some water and smoke damage. I masked it off enough to hit the spots with a spray can of stain blocker and touch up a place where the popcorn had fell off. 

The rest of the ceiling rolled out fine, but I was worried about this one area. If the popcorn started coming down, that would create a lot more work repairing it. The area was already partially masked, so I went ahead and tightened up the masking and sprayed this section.









Even after all my years of spraying, I will still occasionally talk myself out of doing it. "It would be too much masking, too much trouble to spray it". While that certainly can be the case sometimes, its really not very often. This section of ceiling, even with all the masking, went faster (and was physically easier) than the rolled sections.


----------



## straightedgellc (Jul 12, 2014)

That's some great work... Hanging plastic like that is a pain....my painters hate doing that!


----------

