# Steel Conduit, equipment grounding q?



## HandicappedHome (Jul 31, 2012)

We are installing a few hand dryers in a commercial location. There are two THHN/THWN wires (neutral and hot) running through continuous steel conduit (and steel metal boxes, tight fittings, etc) and dryers are not double insulated and need to be grounded. So my question is, should a separate ground wire be ran inside the conduit or does the conduit itself act as an acceptable ground? And if the conduit itself _is_ an acceptable ground, what is used to connect the conduit properly to the dryer?

Electrician says no additional ground wire is needed, but I'm divided on this after internet "research". I figured it's time to ask the experts :clap:


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## HandicappedHome (Jul 31, 2012)

BTW I usually do residential work and this doesn't hasn't come up, sorry if it's a stupid question!


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes, it's allowed per 250.118.

Can't answer your question on connection, as I don't know the physical characteristics of the dryer.


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm not an Electrician but I would look on the inside of the hand dryer for a wiring diagram first. If you have a system that is properly grounded through a metallic raceway, just connecting the unit with an emt connector should be sufficient to ground the unit.

If the unit has plastic parts, it may have a separate ground wire internally. In that case, again refer to the diagram. Someone else can tell you the best way to connect it to the raceway.

Keith


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

HandicappedHome said:


> Electrician says no additional ground wire is needed, but I'm divided on this after internet "research". I figured it's time to ask the experts :clap:


Why aren't you trusting your electrician?:blink:

Around here (local codes vary) but EMT is accepted as an equipment ground. (Greenfield is different, and requires an actual grounding conductor)


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

> *250.118 Types of Equipment Grounding Conductors.*
> The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing
> the circuit conductors shall be one or more or a combination
> of the following:
> ...


'Nuff said.


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## HandicappedHome (Jul 31, 2012)

Got it, thank you all! :thumbup:

Don't want to give the impression that I don't trust my electrician, I am just new to this world (worked on naval vessels machinery/electrical and am now licensed just as a contractor) and I wanted to be absolutely sure.

I know how important proper grounding can be and remember back to the days when we grounded equipment in a manner we thought was fine and it ended up costing us big in the end due to non-conformance with naval code. Luckily the res/commericial code is a bit more locked down, clear, and available on this matter, very happy to have the 250.118 code ref handy.

Glad to hear that a sparky is a sparky no matter what is being wired up :jester:


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right is my thinking. When you are dealing with water and exposed EMT i always run a ground wire. I always think of the worst that could happen and never do the bare minimum.

With a public bathroom that may have 100s of people using it daily I make sure it's right. 

A live piece of pipe and someone standing on a wet bathroom floor which is very common in public bathrooms with wet hands is obviously not good. Relying on the conduit fittings to give constant secure continuity is a risk i rarely take.

Just my opinion and the way I do things.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right is my thinking. When you are dealing with water and exposed EMT i always run a ground wire. I always think of the worst that could happen and never do the bare minimum.
> 
> With a public bathroom that may have 100s of people using it daily I make sure it's right.
> 
> ...


I'd trust a pipe over a wire.


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> I'd trust a pipe over a wire.


Rigid yeah but the guy has a point with the EMT. The grounding continuity could be disrupted by any fitting getting pulled apart anywhere in the line. Pulling an extra ground wire can't hurt.

Keith


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

I just installed some excelerator hand dryers...

The enclosure is plastic so you need a ground wire. 

They were 277v.. dont want to risk anything...

Water + voltage... Not good

If you have to run a ground to some building steel or cold water pipe its better than emt alone.. i always see the stuff pulled apart.. or add the ground to the pipe or run some mc..


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> I'd trust a pipe over a wire.


If the ground wire gets cut then the pipe is bonded anyway to act as a ground. If they both fail then I would play the lottery the same day that happens.

If you use compression fittings it makes a really secure connection but most handymen or unqualified guys use the single set screw **** connectors that fall apart.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Rich D. said:


> I just installed some excelerator hand dryers...
> 
> The enclosure is plastic so you need a ground wire.


:laughing:

Are you an electrician? Working with 277? wow


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> most handymen or unqualified guys use the single set screw **** connectors that fall apart.


I use those when the pipe will be covered by drywall. Pretty much standard here.

I do see the point though since I've seen MANY fittings not tightened, stolen, or otherwise with exposed EMT in public settings.

Interesting.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

realelectrician said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Are you an electrician? Working with 277? wow


My father is..

Comeon.... 277 is the same as 120 just hurts alot more :laughing:

Lock out tag out is my friend.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Rich D. said:


> My father is


Ok just wondering why would you need a ground wire "because it's plastic"? The metal mounting bracket of the dryer has to be grounded. Has nothing to do with the plastic housing.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Rich D. said:


> My father is..
> 
> Comeon.... 277 is the same as 120 just hurts alot more :laughing:
> 
> Lock out tag out is my friend.


Kills a lot more and nothing to laugh about...


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

realelectrician said:


> Ok just wondering why would you need a ground wire "because it's plastic"? The metal mounting bracket of the dryer has to be grounded. Has nothing to do with the plastic housing.


Nope the dryers i had were all plastic. Had a ground screw for the motor. Thats all

They were excelerator hand dryers.check the specs out. It surprised me.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

realelectrician said:


> Kills a lot more and nothing to laugh about...


I know. I was being very sarcastic..


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Rich D. said:


> Nope the dryers i had were all plastic. Had a ground screw for the motor. Thats all
> 
> They were excelerator hand dryers.check the specs out. It surprised me.


So the motor was mounted on plastic and the whole unit was mounted on plastic? Sounds strange and really high quality :blink:


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