# load bearing opening



## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

You'll all be happy I'm not working heights on this one :laughing:...

Neighbor has been at me to install his new patio door since October 2011 and I'm finally finding time on the schedule to get it done.

Basically need a 6'0" x 6'8" opening created through a solid masonry house to accommodate the install. 

Got a late start this morning and the 60 mph gusts we had today made for an interesting dust storm 

Anyway, I'll keep you updated with the lintel installation and such as I progress through this. 

On the docket today...Layout; removal of 2 sheets of heavily glued 
80's interior paneling to expose the furred out drywall; saw-cut perimeter; primed up two lintels and started brick removal.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Looks like a cool project. They definitely picked the right guy. Do you plan on using a needle board for temporary support during lentil installation?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Got about half of the brick out today and I'm salvaging these puppies...
Hard to match the size and patina of these bricks in new and I'm always doing patch jobs around the neighborhood anyway. 

Suckers vary from 8 1/4" to 8 3/4" and there hard to come by when you need them...Red clay, 70 years old and as good as the day they were laid... these are keepers :thumbup:


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## MF Custom (May 3, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Looks like a cool project. They definitely picked the right guy. Do you plan on using a needle board for temporary support during lentil installation?


Sorry for not knowing but whats a needle board?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Looks like a cool project. They definitely picked the right guy. Do you plan on using a needle board for temporary support during lentil installation?


Actually no supports at all on this one...Flemish bond every seventh course acts as the tie so I'll just wrap up the brick wythe first, then hack out the block.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

superseal said:


> Actually no supports at all on this one...Flemish bond every seventh course acts as the tie so I'll just wrap up the brick wythe first, then hack out the block.


Well thats nice. They don't lay them like that anymore do they? I should have noticed from the pictures of the middle row removed.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

MF Custom said:


> Sorry for not knowing but whats a needle board?


I am sure the term varies by region but here it refers to large boards or beams which are through bolted together in an appropriate pattern to temporarily carry load while a header or lintel can be installed during brick or block alterations.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

MF Custom said:


> Sorry for not knowing but whats a needle board?


Somebody posted a really good visual description of needles I remember, just forget who. 

Anyway needles are perpendicular supports which poke through the masonry above a planned opening. Brace them up and they shore up the cut-out. Got to patch them when your done so it creates some extra work. 

Somebody hopefully will post a pic for you so you get a better understanding


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Edit...yep what Matt said :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

superseal said:


> Edit...yep what Matt said :laughing:


Dont forget the thanks button.. :whistling:

Looks like a cool project. Also, saving those bricks could possibly make you a hero one day. :thumbsup:


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

MF Custom said:


> Sorry for not knowing but whats a needle board?


Here's a couple of photos of needles. I prefer the timber to the one using scaffold poles. The last one is a strongboy which is just knocked into the joint and saves needles.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I like that strongboy Stu...looks pretty quick to install and no holes through the wall. 

Hmm... have to make me some of them :thumbsup:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Still chipping away at the brick removal and it's real work trying to save this brick. 

For those non masons who hang out here -this is how they use to tie brick to block wythes together - full headers in Flemish bond every seventh course does the trick. 

Can't believe my boots are gettin' dirty - gonna need some extra fancy beef tallow after this one for sure :whistling


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

geez, those block are on a weird bond.

Did you do your saw cut with a laser. That is straight. I've usually got so much dust and safety squint going that i can't hardly see what I'm doing. Are you going to tooth the brick and re-lay the heads or does the door come with a trim that hides the cut?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I probably salvaged about 200 brick for future patchwork in the neighborhood and somebody will be happy down the road. Lot's of people around here put A/C units through the wall before central air was common and are always looking to get them bricked up again. Nice to know I got a few that'll match :thumbsup:

Lintel is going in next after I chop out the key-way... And even though this is under a porch roof, I gonna flash and weep the lintel anyway.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> geez, those block are on a weird bond.
> 
> Did you do your saw cut with a laser. That is straight. I've usually got so much dust and safety squint going that i can't hardly see what I'm doing. Are you going to tooth the brick and re-lay the heads or does the door come with a trim that hides the cut?


No toothing - gonna add a wood buck frame for the door and aluminum cap it close to the finished face - about 3/4" return is all you'll see. 

Yesterdays wind definitely helped with dust control :whistling


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Here's another question for you it's not a straight pricing question so i hope it's alright.

Do you charge more or less for used brick as opposed to new brick, or do you absorb it into the cost of the project.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Just using copper laminate for this one - easy to retro-fit and should do the job. Ends dams got rolled up and I'll trim the excess later.

These are the days I wish I was a plumber :laughing:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> Here's another question for you it's not a straight pricing question so i hope it's alright.
> 
> Do you charge more or less for used brick as opposed to new brick, or do you absorb it into the cost of the project.


I rarely buy new brick when doing these - plenty of field brick available when you knocking out openings and surely enough to get you through the job. 

I will however charge a premium to the next guy who wants these brick for a match and rightfully so... I did clean and house them and that alone warrants the premium :thumbsup:


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

superseal said:


> I like that strongboy Stu...looks pretty quick to install and no holes through the wall.
> 
> Hmm... have to make me some of them :thumbsup:


Be good if you could knock some up, look at the price of them.
http://www.scaffoldsupplies.co.uk/products/details/1356.html
The only real disadvantage with them is that the props are closer to the wall and gives you less room if you have to get a heavy steel in.

Interesting thread for me to see a different method of doing the job.
Like the way you flashed it with copper.

Our lintels nowadays are made in one piece to do both walls and form the flashing, but one that size is about $150. 
The first on is an older one with no insulation.

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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

$150, that's nothing. I was putting a passageway through a stone wall and the engineer speced 2 H beams with a peice of 3/16" sheet steel welded across the bottom to hold non shrink grout and also to act as a brick/stone ledge. Called a local steel guy and ordered it without asking the price. Ended up costing $750. Luckily it was a time and material project.

And superseal, i was wondering more about when you sell the salvaged brick to the next customer. I usually sell the reclaims higher than new and have had people get real angry about it.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks for those pics Stu...I've seen those lintels online and seems it's always a UK adresss. 

I'm just using 4x4x1/4" angles on this one...picked them up for 55.00 each and primed them up. 

Got the brick laid in today and decided I better throw a wall up on the interior. Only one flemish course above before the floor joist tie in and the customer has some heavy furniture up above. Better safe than sorry I suppose. No matter, I just used the wall to poly off the interior dust so i'm knocking off two birds at once.

On the docket today...set exterior brick and weeps, cut and laid a few slivers to fit into jambs where some big head joints were, erection of the interior floor joist support/dust control wall and rip and remove drywall and 1x2 furring.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

huh, that's interesting. Is it all brick for the last 8"? And I just realised, these are honest to goodness "cinder" block aren't they? 
And i really like your weep holes. Some folk around here insist on making them the full head joint. i can't stand or understand it. Make them as small and unobtrusive as far as I'm concerned

I've never seen this type of construction before. It's kinda neat.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Since the varied size of brick on these homes makes running bond a bit off vertically, your bound to end up with some deficiencies along the cut line. I had about five areas that fell on large head joints that just popped off when removing the brick. 

Small slivers of brick were cut to fit in and even though it looks like chit now, it' will blend in when I'm done. Most of the jamb will be fitted out with trim at the end so only a small reveal will be exposed. 

The whole house needs a good cleaning and re-pointing BTW so I'm only paying attention to the door are for now. When I mentioned it to the owner he says, "thinkin' of doing it myself".

I said, "cool, just let me know when you give up on that thought" :laughing:

Check out the front wall of this place :thumbup:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> huh, that's interesting. Is it all brick for the last 8"? And I just realised, these are honest to goodness "cinder" block aren't they?
> And i really like your weep holes. Some folk around here insist on making them the full head joint. i can't stand or understand it. Make them as small and unobtrusive as far as I'm concerned
> 
> I've never seen this type of construction before. It's kinda neat.


Yep, cinder for sure...I think there 18's too if I'm not mistaken. 

I think the reason for the solid brick area is thats were the 2nd floor joist tuck into and maybe they wanted a more solid bearing area. Don't know for sure, but I've seen this before. 

I got some old pics from a friend when these places were being built in the 40's...I'll post a few :thumbsup:


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

superseal said:


> Can't believe my boots are gettin' dirty - gonna need some extra fancy beef tallow after this one for sure :whistling


I'll let you off the hook for now.:laughing:


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Wait forget I said that.....how did your boots get that dirty but you kept your pants so clean? You really are Mr Wizard!


Oh yeah...nice brickwork too.:thumbsup:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Just a mix of Capes and Colonials in the neighborhood mostly built from 1942 thru 1945.

Original price...around 5K :blink::laughing:

Here's a few shots from the local historian friend of mine.

I have one of the colonials myself actually...


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> huh, that's interesting. Is it all brick for the last 8"?


If the joists are sitting on the wall, it's much easier to get the levels spot on in brickwork. It does also spread any point loads better.
We used to put a course of bricks on top of the AAC blocks on the inner skin of cavity walls at joist and roof plate height but they won't allow it now because of cold spots. They make an AAC coursing brick to use instead.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Spent most of today installing the interior lintel and it's tight, dusty work conditions. 

Furniture has been moved to one side of this converted garage, 10 x 20room and I've got plastic up everywhere. 

Sure wish this opening was installed when they converted the garage in the eighties - would have been so much easier to do then with simple access and not much dust worries. 

Anyway here's an update...


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

In terms of flashing the interior lintel, I just rolled additional copper over the front lintel and tucked it into the top bed joint.

Don't really expect water on this lintel being under a roof, but as you can see, It's been here before (ceiling stain).

Customer told me the roofer didn't flashing the patio roof correctly and during Hurricane Floyd the stain appeared. 

New flashing was saw cut in to correct the problem so hes says, but I'm gonna look anyway.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Your boots must look just awful now. :laughing: Looks like some fine masonry work for a sider. :thumbsup:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Your boots must look just awful now. :laughing: Looks like some fine masonry work for a sider. :thumbsup:


How'd you know I did siding :whistling


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

superseal said:


> How'd you know I did siding :whistling


Because you thought you could match my metal skills, thus must have years of siding experience. :laughing:


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

As usual, very nice & useful thread Superseal..........:thumbsup:

One question, and maybe you covered it already, but what's with the open head joints on the block on the exterior side while the interior are full?


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

Nice thread superseal you put out there for the masses . :thumbsup:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

jomama said:


> As usual, very nice & useful thread Superseal..........:thumbsup:
> 
> One question, and maybe you covered it already, but what's with the open head joints on the block on the exterior side while the interior are full?


Don't know for sure...I suppose the masons just half buttered the block and never wiped between wythes when they were laying the walls.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Dang boots were lookin' nasty yesterday...had to give them a lil' juice last night for the upcoming weekend and church on Sunday :laughing:

And, don't forget to moist cure your patchwork - a little spritz here an there is all it takes.

Anyway, after spending the last couple of days feeling like I was breaking out of Alcatraz, I've got the block down and I'm grouting the perimeter cores to transfer the load. 

Customer is pretty happy thus far and noticed how much natural light this door is gonna let in... really changes the whole mood of the room that's for sure :thumbup:

In order to clean break the block, I've scored the exterior side with an 
8" grinder/(diamond blade) and poked 1/8" holes through the interior portion 1" O.C. with the trusty US1 rotary hammer. All you have to do now is connect the dots with a thin brick chisel and she'll come out fairly clean.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

It's the fancy beef tallow that makes the difference I guess.

Everything looking neat and clean as usual. Great job.:thumbsup:


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

OOOHHHH, I like that chisel. A LOT. I had a nice thin one like that, let a guy who was giving us a hand use it and an hour later he brings it over with a huge chunk out of it. "Umm I owe you a chisel, where can I get one." My face must have sunk in on itself. "First build a time machine, then go back to the '60's and ask my grandfather where he bought it". "Oh, I guess I owe you a beer then", "yeah that'll do it, grampa would enjoy it"


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

So the block is out and i'm left with some cores exposed which need filling to properly transfer the loads. No biggie - whip of some rapid set
mortar and be on my way.

This job is sowly getting better - I got a new way out instead of climbing through all the plastic navigating two rooms :clap:

Circa 1940's toggle bolts - who says their lost forever :laughing:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> OOOHHHH, I like that chisel. A LOT. I had a nice thin one like that, let a guy who was giving us a hand use it and an hour later he brings it over with a huge chunk out of it. "Umm I owe you a chisel, where can I get one." My face must have sunk in on itself. "First build a time machine, then go back to the '60's and ask my grandfather where he bought it". "Oh, I guess I owe you a beer then", "yeah that'll do it, grampa would enjoy it"


Funny you should say - I would love to know also. I have two of them and only use them on special occasions like this. 

Sad part is I cant remember where I got them - very thin indeed and perfect for the task. Cutting brick I use the stubby fat ones.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Um, didn't look like you used lime mortar there butch.

Gonna have to call Cleveland about this one.:no:


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

If you remember let me know. I'll take 2 also


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dakzaag said:


> Um, didn't look like you used lime mortar there butch.
> 
> Gonna have to call Cleveland about this one.:no:


6:1:1 s.c.l. for the brickwork - 7000psi rapid set for the jamb block :laughing: I'm dyslexic I'm telling ya :whistling

Good thing I'm keeping the brick...darn block rubble alone filled up the truck.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Looks good, can't hardly tell


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> Looks good, can't hardly tell


Thanks Dom...If it's up to me, I'd re-point this whole wall section only because it really needs it and blending would be easy. 

This is not real pretty brickwork to begin with so I'll probably burn the patchwork joints with a little acid when I'm done. 

It should blend in alright till the place is ultimately pointed.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Excellent job once again!

You need a bumper sticker, Got Bungee!


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Figured I throw in a nice level threshold since the brickwork and subfloor is outta wack - slight pitch forward she goes...


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

What are you using for that threshold that won't crack?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

lukachuki said:


> What are you using for that threshold that won't crack?


No lime mortar here that's for sure :laughing:...Just Planicrete AC with Control nylon fiber. Most of the threshold is getting covered anyway so you'll only see about an inch of the nosing.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

superseal said:


> No lime mortar here that's for sure :laughing:...Just Planicrete AC with Control nylon fiber. Most of the threshold is getting covered anyway so you'll only see about an inch of the nosing.


:laughing:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

As if this week didn't already kick my arse, my niece rented the local skating rink for her boytoy Gregs 25 B-Day Party today.

Greg likes to play hockey and told me to bring my gear ...I'm getting too old for this chit I'm telling ya :laughing:


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Pepsi huh? Were you calling that pop or mix?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Yea, it was pop that night with all those youngsters :no:

Didn't feel too bad Sunday mornin' for church either :whistling

Swung by the job this morning and removed the plastic covering on my threshold and it cured out quite nice. 

Figure I'd let it dry out a bit so I went shopping for a few materials and stopped at two estimates along the way. Didn't get back till noon and found the UPS man had stopped by. I ordered this door unit knock-down and one of the frame components was damaged during transit. A quick call and ***** and the order was rushed into action by Andersen.

Anyway, Installed some 2x8 primed jambs with 1 1/2" PVC shoes and foamed them after install for a nice air tight fit, fabricated the sill pan using some Alcoa stock, and assembled the 400 series Terra-tone frame using factory specifications including proper screwing sequence. 

The directions provided were sufficient and the frame went together quite nicely. All the proper goop squeezed out the seams :thumbup:

I'll set the panels and start triming it tomorrow...be outta here soon :clap:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Taking care of some last minute tax stuff this morning and later, shopping for Terra bronze coil stock and interior casings. Not much getting done at my door job when I'm doing these things so let me get back to work 

Oh well, still put a half day in and got the frame and panels installed,... as per manufactures spec :whistling

Lock set is in, the frames were foamed and really just need to finish trim out. 

Have everything I need so I should be wrapping up tomorrow.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Magnifique!


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

JBM said:


> Magnifique!


Why spank you very much :laughing:...I will add, threshold was dead level and my jambs were spot on. Fitting the door was a breeze and it went pretty well.

Still don't like the way Andersen goops the perimeter glass bead - some is perfect, other areas not...they really need to improve on this as it's usually the first thing the customer sees.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

superseal said:


> Why spank you very much :laughing:...I will add, threshold was dead level and my jambs were spot on. Fitting the door was a breeze and it went pretty well.
> 
> Still don't like the way Andersen goops the perimeter glass bead - some is perfect, other areas not...they really need to improve on this as it's usually the first thing the customer sees.


Definitely agree on Andersen's caulking. That said their Frenchwood patio doors are my favorite! Nice job! Also just installed their new A series and it is equally as nice!


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Another great job superseal.


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