# The Gliding Miter Saw is Out



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

http://www.google.com/products?hl=e...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CDQQrQQwAg


I will try and get my hands on one in a week or two.:thumbsup:


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

Woo Hoo!!! arty: 

Start the party :thumbup:

Let me know how it goes, I need a new toy/tool


My 12" DW705 is getting close to retirement


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*ordered mine.......*

yesterday........:thumbup: 

Thanks TBF :thumbsup:


B..


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## Knighton (Feb 5, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> yesterday........:thumbup:
> 
> Thanks TBF :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


 
Will you provide a quick review when you get it? Bass was supposed to be doing a real review for Tools of the Trade, but I haven't heard anything yet. I just want an unbiased opinion before I commit.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Take a look in lowes. Tool guy in our local one said they should have them the day of release. He also said the sonicrafter was the best multi tool and much better than fein :blink: so don't count on them having it. But worth a try :thumbsup:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*review....*

you want me to be honest.... I have read 100's of threads about someone wanting opinions about tools.... I'll be honest... does it really mean anything to you or anyone else for that matter......what I think or bass/TBF/TCLEV/Warrner/LEo///Lone// etc...etc..etc...... or anyone else here thinks.. 

not being a pric... honestly.. the ultimate choice is yours.... here is how I feel about tools.... I buy them because "I" like them... not because of someone else's opinions... It;s like everything else in life... everyone has got there own opinions.. what I will tell you is... check it out for yourself.... I did.. and I am SOLD! :thumbup: but thats me... I have tools in my shop that are over 100 years old... OLIVER...:thumbup: my baby's:thumbup:
meanwhile guys are chasing thin sheet metal CRAP IMO ... but thats me..  I could go on & on about this... but I know better 
B.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> yesterday........:thumbup:
> 
> Thanks TBF :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


:w00t:


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I buy them because "I" like them... not because of someone else's opinions..


I agree

Some people have great luck with Yellow and some with Blue

It's all about what feels right and works good for YOU....






I also think the use of the tool determines what opinion you have of it.

Someone who uses a Dremel for detail work will swear by them.
A drywaller using a Dremel for cutting sheetrock day after day burns them out and hates them.......



So the Newest, Latest and Greatest Slider will be liked by some and not by others.


Just my opinion.....:laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I wont buy any power tool without review. You should never buy anything with value without doing it. It brings out the flaws of any product. If you buy it and like it then great but buying blind is not the way to buy. If 90% of reviews show a product with issues then I won't buy it even if I really like it. So yes reviews do matter a lot.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

same as blond or brunette... its all what you prefeer, i like em all though.... oh... yer talking about mitre saws... my bad


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## timberrat (Jun 18, 2010)

looks like it has to many moving joints to be or reman accurate for repeated cuts. im definatly not brand or color loyal but its dang hard to beat a dewalt miter saw i do the research and buy the brand that truely is best in the line of tool im looking for i own all brands bosch is a good brand but that design looks sketchy to me.:whistling


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## Knighton (Feb 5, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> you want me to be honest.... I have read 100's of threads about someone wanting opinions about tools.... I'll be honest... does it really mean anything to you or anyone else for that matter......what I think or bass/TBF/TCLEV/Warrner/LEo///Lone// etc...etc..etc...... or anyone else here thinks..
> 
> not being a pric... honestly.. the ultimate choice is yours.... here is how I feel about tools.... I buy them because "I" like them... not because of someone else's opinions... It;s like everything else in life... everyone has got there own opinions.. what I will tell you is... check it out for yourself.... I did.. and I am SOLD! :thumbup: but thats me... I have tools in my shop that are over 100 years old... OLIVER...:thumbup: my baby's:thumbup:
> meanwhile guys are chasing thin sheet metal CRAP IMO ... but thats me..  I could go on & on about this... but I know better
> B.


I realize the ultimate choice is mine, but I do value reviews...of course that depends on who's reviewing it. I actually have bought tools based upon recommendations from people on CT. I bought a Bosch planer because of Bass' recommendation, and it was a wise choice. 

I've read your posts in the past and from what I've read you seem to know what you're talking about. I'm in the market for another 12 SCMS (or glider) and haven't seen the axial glide in person, so having someone who is buying one and has nothing to gain or lose by providing a good review could very well help me make my final decision.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

timberrat said:


> looks like it has to many moving joints to be or reman accurate for repeated cuts. im definatly not brand or color loyal but its dang hard to beat a dewalt miter saw i do the research and buy the brand that truely is best in the line of tool im looking for i own all brands bosch is a good brand but that design looks sketchy to me.:whistling


 

People think moving joints and think slop....this may be true if it were not for all the joints having sealed ball bearings. I highly doubt those joints will wear out in my lifetime. Think about how fast the motor on these things spins and for how long....and yet those ball bearings stay tight in these harsh conditions. At the rate of speed and amount of actual use, the ball bearings in the pivots are going to take a long time to kill. Ball bearings are great, they all but eliminate friction and the tolorance they can allow is super tight. 

Ever take apart your slider? Notice that only one rail has a bearing and the other rail just slides on bushings (brass?). Now which do you think would be better, brass bushings rubbing on a steel rail over and over, or sealed ball bearings press fit into castings and onto pivots?



Could I be wrong? Sure, but I am confident in my logic so far.


Anyway, I walked into the job today and started bull ****ting with the GC...his DeWalt DW708 crapped out last night in his shop...after years of use it died. I asked him if he liked my Bosch 5412, which has been on MANY of his jobs and he said he did, asked if it was for sale. I explained to him about this new saw and said I could part ways with my 5412 cheaply. ($250 bucks for him). To which he said if it's not cost effective to fix his DW, which he has grown partial too, he will take me up on that offer. 

I will prob order mine in a week or two.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I should get one for cutting up muck lumber


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Brian,

I understand what you are saying but hearing negatives or problems with a tool might help people from making a mistake. 

I do realize the bottom line is what we like in the end as it's our coin.

I just spend a boat load on a router setup for my trailer but it's something I've wanted for a long time. I did a lot of research on it I value the reviews and posts by others to help me decide the best to buy for my setup.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

may as well just get out the ole radial arm saw....:shutup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Check the time, brian was hittin' the sauce again. :w00t:

_I don't need no stinkin' reviews_...review _this!_

:laughing:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I'll be looking for that saw this weekend.:thumbup:

I can't wait a year or more to see how the axial glide mechanism holds up, so I may as well be the Guinea Pig.:laughing:

If I like the layout and the feel of the saw, it'll be mine.

I still have the Type 1 DeWalt 12" compound miter saw. Bought it as soon as it was locally available. Everyone I knew said I was nuts. "What do you need such a big saw for?":blink: Mine is still kicking and all the naysayers have had them as well.:laughing: Now they ask me how I can do without the slide compound.:whistling


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

J F said:


> Check the time, brian was hittin' the sauce again. :w00t:
> 
> _I don't need no stinkin' reviews_...review _this!_
> 
> :laughing:



:lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

PrestigeR&D said:


> you want me to be honest.... I have read 100's of threads about someone wanting opinions about tools.... I'll be honest... does it really mean anything to you or anyone else for that matter......what I think or bass/TBF/TCLEV/Warrner/LEo///Lone// etc...etc..etc...... or anyone else here thinks..
> 
> not being a pric... honestly.. the ultimate choice is yours.... here is how I feel about tools.... I buy them because "I" like them... not because of someone else's opinions... It;s like everything else in life... everyone has got there own opinions.. what I will tell you is... check it out for yourself.... I did.. and I am SOLD! :thumbup: but thats me... I have tools in my shop that are over 100 years old... OLIVER...:thumbup: my baby's:thumbup:
> meanwhile guys are chasing thin sheet metal CRAP IMO ... but thats me..  I could go on & on about this... but I know better
> B.


 
you always say your not being a pric:shifty:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*You want so know what it is that set me off...*

I'll tell ya...

I had a member Pm me yesterday and told me to go """"" myself.... 

why....

because I read his trade - GC.... so this "GC" is on here asking about tiling a room.. 6" joists....no span information... no room demensions... no sub-ply information....etc..etc.... So he wants to know if the floor is going to handle tile....24x24 he says..... 

what has been really irritating to me lately is this "GIANT SUCKING SOUND" of people that lie and just want information all the time with NOTHING to contribute..


So I called him on it..... "as a GC this is something you should know how to calculate on your own... and there is a wealth of information on the net " I basically told him he is full of crap....but I was polite about it.... and I am sick of letting them have there way all the time.. I understand that it is important to acquire members and it is good for CT... I am all for that.:thumbsup:. I love this place and look forward to chatting with you guys..discussions.. I mean that.. 

But it has just become overwhelming to me at times with the amount of questions that come out from some new members... and they have nothing to contribute ..... and I just have reached my threashold... I don't mind at all trying to help a guy out....but the BS is what I can NOT STAND!!!!!! 


So I maybe went a little harsh here.. and I apologies for that .. I meant no disrespect to any of you guys..... 


I hope you understand what I am trying to say....:thumbsup: 

B.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i'm hip ya pric:notworthy


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

I'd bite if it weren't so heavy. Anyone have an exact weight on this thing? How about the 10" version?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*I tried it....*

 and it is unbelievably smooth.... but weird... hard to explain...

all I know is it's coming Wednesday/Thursday.. and I 'll throw some shots of her up here...or maybe a video....,,, sound good? 

B.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:thumbsup:



























_hic...up_


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## Five Star (Jan 15, 2009)

Does look akward, but it has me intrigued! 76 lbs though i dont know my makita is like 52lbs i believe and the cutting capacity is pretty close to my 10"! but im keeping an open mind! i only own 2 bosch tools and one im about to list on ebay the bosch flush cutter! used it 2 times any one interested PM me!


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

HandyHails said:


> I'd bite if it weren't so heavy. Anyone have an exact weight on this thing? How about the 10" version?


 I think it's about 5 pounds lighter than my toolbelt.:laughing:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I wasn't able to pick it up. I'm surprised it's so heavy. I did like the way it felt. the thing you have to do is adjust the resistance on the radial arm. They had the one in baltimore way too lose and it almost was TOO easy to pull towards you and control. It's a very fluid motion though, It doesn't need much room behind it. I really like that. The rep there said no plans for a 10 inch model. I don't need another 12" saw but when I do, this one will have been tested by then. My 9 year old dewalt slider is still doing well and no plans to replace it. I want the kapex for doing the higher end trim jobs. I currently don't own a 10" compound miter saw.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

The word bosch is German translates to heavy:whistling


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*It's going on a......*

SLUV stand....somthing to consider ..... no way in hell I would use it without one.....the ridgid..ahh.. that was heavy to.. SLUV:thumbsup:

B.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

my table saw is 75 lbs, it's bosch, I need that gravity stand for it soon. it's a pricey stand. but looks nice. takes up more room though.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

76 pounds?

What are they thinking? I want no part of lugging a 76lb. miter saw around.

Keep it in a shop? No, a shop saw would be an Omga. 

Too heavy. I don't like blowing a gasket picking up a tool.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> my table saw is 75 lbs, it's bosch, I need that gravity stand for it soon. it's a pricey stand. but looks nice. takes up more room though.


I have that set-up, it is ok. I want to get rid of the whole thing but, not sure what to replace it with.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Darcy...*

you are so biased.... ug,......:laughing: it's like they have brain washed you....:laughing:


step outside the box my friend...enjoy the adventure....:laughing:

B.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 76 pounds?
> 
> What are they thinking? I want no part of lugging a 76lb. miter saw around.
> 
> ...


 It's all about conditioning. I do 17 lb. wormdrive curls, 8 one hour sets, 5 days on, 2 off. I break it up with some squats with 3/4 Advantech for muscle confusion.:laughing:


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## Five Star (Jan 15, 2009)

I was building a deck on a house the other day, they were having a highend Omega kitchen put in by the cabinet showroom installer,He was using a 35 yr old delta portable radial arm saw! the thing was friggin old! he said thats all hes been using for the last 27 yrs, its what he learned with!
he goes to garage sales and buys older ones for parts and keeps refurbishing the original! the kitchen he was doing cost 70k just cabinets! 

the old timers still know whats best is not the saw its the guy behind it!:thumbsup:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I have that set-up, it is ok. I want to get rid of the whole thing but, not sure what to replace it with.


do you have the gravity stand or the older red stand that the model 4000 used to come with. I noticed they don't even sell the 4000 anymore. 4100, the table surface seems too rough, i like the old one i have that's smoother metal. i've been through a few bases though so i'm ready to have it attached to a wheeled stand now.

just wish they didn't charge over 200 bucks for the freakin wheeled gravity stand.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Bingo!!!!*



Five Star said:


> I was building a deck on a house the other day, they were having a highend Omega kitchen put in by the cabinet showroom installer,He was using a 35 yr old delta portable radial arm saw! the thing was friggin old! he said thats all hes been using for the last 27 yrs, its what he learned with!
> he goes to garage sales and buys older ones for parts and keeps refurbishing the original! the kitchen he was doing cost 70k just cabinets!
> 
> the old timers still know whats best is not the saw its the guy behind it!:thumbsup:


 
Thank you!:notworthy your absolutly write...:thumbsup:

B.


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## Five Star (Jan 15, 2009)

One thing is a must for me when i look for a miter saw, I have to be able to control the blade guard with my thumb on the trigger hand, this is a must for notching and window sills! Thats why the Kapex doesnt appeal to me!:whistling


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Five Star said:


> One thing is a must for me when i look for a miter saw, I have to be able to control the blade guard with my thumb on the trigger hand, this is a must for notching and window sills! Thats why the Kapex doesnt appeal to me!:whistling


you bring up a good point. but you can trigger the arm to come down which release the blade guard without the blade being on. I know I have a habit on my dewalt slider of holding the guard up with one of my fingers so I can see the more precise cuts better.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

just pick the dam thing up:w00t:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tomstruble said:


> just pick the dam thing up:w00t:


Yeah that's easy for you guys who work outside. Not so easy when you have to get it into a house without taking chucks out of walls, casings and counter tops.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

noodle armed pansies the lot of ya:drink:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Tom's wearin' his "beer courage" again, watch out!


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## s. donato (Jan 23, 2008)

oh tom... its only 3pm :no:


i did have the pleasure to check it out at the balitmore remodeling show and it is really smooth.

the bosch guys said there will not be a 10" b/c the mechanism is so big that it is really hard to size down for a smaller saw and if your carrying around the weight you might as well have the larger blade. it seemed to make sense to me at the time.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i'm drinking root beer:tt2:


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

i used the one at the baltimore home show also. i liked how smooth it was, but the motor jumped when you hit the trigger. it really doesnt save any room, the rep told me you need about 25-1/2 from the wall. my 718 is about the same. 
the dust collection looked like they forgot about it then threw a pipe on the side of it. they had a vac hooked right to it with a tool trigger and there was saw dust everywhere. the kapex was the only saw that had decient dust collection for a miter saw. all the other miter saws had piles of saw dust around them.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

How many people are cutting inside houses unless it's new construction? even with dust extraction, you still have dust to clean up in any room you cut in. plus, I'm cutting with table saws, routers, jigsaws, sanders etc. you can't keep all the dust down even with a CT22. I setup a whole station outside the door and try to make the least amount of trips possible.

no way the stand weighs 100 lbs. I have no issues lifting my table saw that's 75 lbs into my truck, or into the trailer at the end of the day. someday i'll have a wheeled stand for it, the dewalt slider doesn't have a stand either and gets put on a bench that I built.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> How many people are cutting inside houses unless it's new construction? even with dust extraction, you still have dust to clean up in any room you cut in. plus, I'm cutting with table saws, routers, jigsaws, sanders etc. you can't keep all the dust down even with a CT22. I setup a whole station outside the door and try to make the least amount of trips possible.
> 
> no way the stand weighs 100 lbs. I have no issues lifting my table saw that's 75 lbs into my truck, or into the trailer at the end of the day. someday i'll have a wheeled stand for it, the dewalt slider doesn't have a stand either and gets put on a bench that I built.



I can cut trim all day in someone's house and have less of a mess to clean then I do if I drill a couple holes.

All hail CT-22 and my kapex.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

that's fine if all you use is the Kapex. but I need a lot of room for ripping loner material, and most people don't have big enough rooms to do all that. finished houses, never cut inside them, ever. I've cut in their basements before when it's raining.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> that's fine if all you use is the Kapex. but I need a lot of room for ripping loner material, and most people don't have big enough rooms to do all that. finished houses, never cut inside them, ever. I've cut in their basements before when it's raining.



I use all my tools inside, piss on walking back and forth. Waste of time and energy. 

TS-55, rotex, ras, dx93, ets, of 1400 all get used inside.

I wish they would get their table saw set-up here so I don't have to set my table saw up outside and waste time.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I'll tell ya...
> 
> I had a member Pm me yesterday and told me to go """"" myself....
> 
> ...


 

Who made you the CT Police...your only a 2010er. :laughing: arty:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

hey yea ya pric:w00t:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

warner, it's not a waste of time for me. I setup just outside their door. so if you are setup in the largest room in the house, first floor, how many steps really is it to go outside. i'm not trying to argue but the last thing i want to do is swing lumber and trim and build things on someone's finished house with nice carpet, pictures on the wall, etc. I know that small particles of dust still fly around, i would never do that. new construction or additions only I may do that when there is nothing else inside.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

The more I look at that Bosch the less it impresses me. I'm guess I'm spoilt with having the kapex and the dust extraction on it is about as rigged as it gets. I guess they thought no one would be using it inside seeings it's such a big saw so didn't bother with the dust extraction. I think it will sell well though just because ofmit being Bosch and it looks different. I showed my kapex to a contractor friend and he looked at memand said I should have bought a Bosch as they are the best:blink: He didn't even know what festool was and I stopped as soon as he made the Bosch comment. That guy will buy that tool and love it.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ApgarNJ said:


> warner, it's not a waste of time for me. I setup just outside their door. so if you are setup in the largest room in the house, first floor, how many steps really is it to go outside. i'm not trying to argue but the last thing i want to do is swing lumber and trim and build things on someone's finished house with nice carpet, pictures on the wall, etc. I know that small particles of dust still fly around, i would never do that. new construction or additions only I may do that when there is nothing else inside.


I didn't like to set up in finished home either. But the festool gear has change that. My makita + ridged vac I would never consider using in someones home. Kapex + CT33 wouldn't even think twice. In the summer I can be in a nice cool house and the winter in a nice warm house. Can't beat being inside when weather in it's extremes.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

chris klee said:


> i used the one at the baltimore home show also. i liked how smooth it was, but the motor jumped when you hit the trigger. it really doesnt save any room, the rep told me you need about 25-1/2 from the wall. my 718 is about the same.
> the dust collection looked like they forgot about it then threw a pipe on the side of it. they had a vac hooked right to it with a tool trigger and there was saw dust everywhere. the kapex was the only saw that had decient dust collection for a miter saw. all the other miter saws had piles of saw dust around them.


I think maybe he ment the whole thing took up 25 1/2 inches from the wall, not that it needed that much clearance...otherwise that pivot system would be not better then my 5412 slider that needs 26"





Five Star said:


> TBF is young...he can lug that thing around and up and down stairs! :laughing:


:thumbsup: I don't cut inside homes either. I set up in shop in the garage. Pre-assemble as much as I can out there and install as units. If I am running base/chair/crown or whatever, I make batch cuts.

If I am cutting inside, (commercial office buildings most of the time), I use my 10" Delta CMS...its all I have ever needed for things like that. Hooked to a shop vac it catches alot of the dust.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> warner, it's not a waste of time for me. I setup just outside their door. so if you are setup in the largest room in the house, first floor, how many steps really is it to go outside. i'm not trying to argue but the last thing i want to do is swing lumber and trim and build things on someone's finished house with nice carpet, pictures on the wall, etc. I know that small particles of dust still fly around, i would never do that. new construction or additions only I may do that when there is nothing else inside.


One drop cloth, and 4 steps max to where you are working.

Most of the time the only thing I have to sweep is right behind the saw on the table. roll up the drop cloth and get the heck out.

How is going back and forth outside not a waste of time vs. cutting right in the room?

So you take counters and cabinets back outside to scribe them?

You have to walk all the way back to the saw to take a fuzz off?

9 times out of 10, I cut right in the house.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

what about working in multiple rooms. not sure how big the house are around you but i work in older homes and the rooms are small. swinging trim around and doing things like that are just not feasible. and what do you do, move your tools around to each room, how much time does that take?? 

no way could i setup all my tools inside someone's house. i don't have the kapex and even if i did. that's not the only thing i use that makes dust. so for me. i don't mind. i get my work done and i'm happy with it. and i don't make wasted trips to the saw. it's a few extra seconds of walking to get outside. or whatnot. i charge enough and they pay, and i'm happy. no messing around with moving people's furniture around, and worrying about breaking something.

we just did a kitchen remodel. i can't imagine having all my tools setup full time in these people's living room next to the kitchen, and having to take them back out each day and put them away. i kept them in the garage and were setup fast the next day. easy.

you just do different jobs that I do. you do more trim, i do more total remodeling.
it works for me.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

tomstruble said:


> i'm drinking root beer:tt2:


...with a healthy dose of 151.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i wish my liver could live up to my hype:sad:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:shutup:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)




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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Like to hear an opinion after it's been on someone's job for six months or so.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Set the saw on the vac and wheel to the next room.

Big or small, you get the stuff close the right length to begin with and you don't need much room.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo- I all saw in that video was saw dust, what was going on?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Listen, I didn't make the video Darcy. I just posted it. There is another one that uses the vacuum on it in one scene. It probably gets about 90% of the dust. Still a lot of escaped dust.

They didn't have it hooked to a vacuum, just the saw bag. How's the dust level on the Kapex without the vacuum?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

With out the vac, it shoots a stream of dust 15' in the air.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*honestly....and*

realistically.... thats what we do.....it's part of our trade... there is dust in almost every phase of construction~....plain & simple...  i PERSONALLY.....do not hook a vacuum up to my MS...more crap to hook up and get in the way.... and I see about 99% IMO of contractors NOT using shop vacs in combination with there MS's or CTS's - All I am saying ... really.. lets be realistic..........


*Leo G* 
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Trade: *Master Sawdust Producer* :thumbup:

Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA, Connecticut
Posts: 7,308 



this dust issue.....





 
B.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*will do Griz....*



griz said:


> Like to hear an opinion after it's been on someone's job for six months or so.


I think that saw rocks..:thumbup::thumbsup:...:thumbup: however...time will tell..:whistling:whistling:whistling

B.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> realistically.... thats what we do.....it's part of our trade... there is dust in almost every phase of construction~....plain & simple...  i PERSONALLY.....do not hook a vacuum up to my MS...more crap to hook up and get in the way.... and I see about 99% IMO of contractors NOT using shop vacs in combination with there MS's or CTS's - All I am saying ... really.. lets be realistic..........
> 
> 
> *Leo G*
> ...


There don't have to be hardly any dust in any phase of construction. It's what people choose to do them self. After using tools with it I wouldn't go back. No more dry, sore throats. No more walking around dusting every surface for fine particles that float around in the air and a 30 second clean up time after your finished. If Warner hadn't gone on about how good this festool dust extraction was I would prob still be happy with my makita and ridgid. Which infact was crap compared to the festool setup. 

If someone is gonna pay that much for a Bosch tool then perhaps look for a used kapex. It does everything the Bosch does and much more at a lighter weight and better quality product.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Bbc...*

just my thoughts on this thread... thats all..... we all have our own opinions ....but like Framer quated... it's not the saw.... it's the guy behind it:notworthy...:thumbsup:


BBC...have you tried it? it is a rather odd feeling ... and then it happened.. I fell in love ~ :w00t::laughing:........ but you may not like it.... as i said earlier in this post .. I always feel that you should try it out for yourself... 


B.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> It does everything the Bosch does and much more at a lighter weight and better quality product.


It can't cut base over 4 3/4" tall....so you might as well forget about that increase. 90% of base out there is 3 1/2 and 5 1/4, both can be cut on a 10 CMS 3 1/2 using the miter, 5 1/4 using the bevel.

I do alot of the 5 1/4 and larger and like to cut in position...so that increase of 6 plus inches on the Bosch is a good thing. (I have thought about going the way of Basswood, 10" slider, 12" CMS)


I was on a kick for a while where I had myself convinced I needed a 10" slider, but there have also been times where I have needed that full 12" blade to do a really deep long cross-cut....it is when I had to make a few of those cuts I realized maybe a 10" slider isn't the hot ticket for me.

Your still with the slide rails on the Kapex...maybe it good thing, but I think the axial arm might be a better way to go... The kapex only goes 12" cross cut, Bosch does 14"....15 1/4" would have been better. Plus I won't get addicted to green if I don't get it.

I will be right back on here saying that I returned it if I don't like it. I was ALL about the new LS1016....I got two and both went back....


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

i reakon we will get that saw in ireland in 2012 if we are lucky but it does look good


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*good point......*



TBFGhost said:


> It can't cut base over 4 3/4" tall....so you might as well forget about that increase. 90% of base out there is 3 1/2 and 5 1/4. I do alot of the 5 1/4 and larger...so that increase of 6 plus inches on the Bosch is a good thing. Your still with the slide rails on the Kapex...maybe it good thing, but I think the axial arm might be a better way to go... The kapex only goes 12" cross cut, Bosch does 14....15 1/4" would have been better. Plus I won't get addicted to green if I don't get it.


 
TBF.....:thumbsup: the one option that the Bosch has that is a major + is the upfront controls.....so much easier than the typical adjustments & locks.. 

If the Kapex has them as well ...:thumbsup: this...that... the other thing... comparisons.....ahhh...it's seems endless ...the bottom line.... you have to like what you use...
B.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> It can't cut base over 4 3/4" tall....so you might as well forget about that increase. 90% of base out there is 3 1/2 and 5 1/4, both can be cut on a 10 CMS 3 1/2 using the miter, 5 1/4 using the bevel.
> 
> I do alot of the 5 1/4 and larger and like to cut in position...so that increase of 6 plus inches on the Bosch is a good thing. (I have thought about going the way of Basswood, 10" slider, 12" CMS)
> 
> ...


To be honest I have to set the glide on the kapex to be stiffer than fully open. It feels too lose pulling towards me when I'm cutting so I tighten the slide a little to sort that out. If the glide of the axial arm is any more than that then I will have to crank it down anyway. I like a bit of resistance when I pull the saw towards me. Also I have never needed to cut anything more than stair treads depth so most 10's can do that for me. If I do ever have to cut anything more than that I now have the MFT3 table which as I'm learning is a mighty fine flexible table for many types of cuts. I'm finding my self using that as much as my kapex now. Im even going to buy a second now :thumbsup: I have used my kapex to cut base as much as 10' high so I don't see why you need a 12" for that.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

You cut 10" base nested in the saw? Or laying flat. I don't like cutting on the flat, in position is faster and more accurate for me. No flopping the head around, the miter scale is FAR larger and more accurate then the bevel scales on ANY saw. When cutting in position you have to slide the saw less, its only a chop cut, so if there is deflection in the rails or what have you, it can minimal when the rails or what have you are slide all the way to the rear. This problem becomes worse when your slid all the way out and beveled over, the weight of the head can deflect the rails...if you start to make A lot of cuts, in a small length...by the time you get to the end cut, you can be way out.... that little 64th or 32nd can add up fast....say your wraping around two pilasters... thats ALOT of cuts.


This is something I had to do recently...









it was part of a cornice for an overmantel.....I want to be able to cut all that molding at once, glue and pin it together and install. I cannot do that using a bevel scale. the accuracy is just not there and it is a pain to flop the head back and forth that much. When I cut that using the miter scale, the detents are more accurate, there is no head flex, the only thing I need to check before I start is that the saw truly is at 0 degrees bevel.

If I used the bevel scale and did that....by the time I got to the other end I would have been so far off....

I know Warner used to run the same saw I do, so if there is anyone on here I would trust to tell me how much better the KAPEX is, it would be him....but I still want that 12" for the vertical capacity. Kapex comes in a 12" version....maybe you got my attention there... that axial glide thing is just icing on the cake that makes this all to interesting to NOT try.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I am still not a huge fan of bevel cuts.

Ghost- the reason you don't bevel with that 12" bosch is: the bevel scale is too small and that saw was unwieldy to try and get to the right bevel.

I have been doing more beveled cuts recently. The scale on the kapex is huge!! The saw has a counter balance (spring maybe) for when you bevel.
The lock is on the top of the back of the saw. Not hardly any more of a bother the the up fronts on the Bosch (bevel lock always came loose on me).
They have that sweet little fine adjust knob as well, I am confident in a 1/2 degree on a bevel and a 1/4 degree on the miter.

You can only get 4 3/4" base upright in the kapex. I can do 6 5/8" crown nested. It has been few and far between that I needed more out of each of those. 

You will never see a 12" from Festool. They want to be light, small and still compete with the bigger saws.

I don't see any difference in accuracy between miters and bevels from my Kapex. 
Been one year and I have not had to adjust anything, other then the laser a couple time.


In closing: ALL sliding miter saws have their quirks. I saw try all of them and see what one you like.

I wish more tool dealers/company's would let you use their demo units at the store, I know of one that does....


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I am with you TBF, I think that bosch saw with over 6" vertical capacity is key. the kapex is a nice saw but like you, I do get into higher base and the bevel is not as accurate as you have stated. I like the dust extraction of the kapex, but I think cutting capacity triumphs over that. I don't know many guys other than warner and BC that are constantly setting up in finished homes where people are living and pulling the saw through the whole house instead of making one cut station and going to that takes like 30-40 seconds to walk from most rooms to just outside the door to cut. I stand by how I do things, and Prestige stated the same thing. people don't want half a dozen tools pulled through their house. you waste more time pulling the drop cloth around, changing cords, plugging it all back in again, and resetting up tools. if you have 3 rooms to trim and I set my stuff up once without a vac outside, I can bet that I will have the job done exactly the same time if not sooner than the guy who moves his stuff around for each room he's working in. i hate being crammed with not much room to rotate trim and other items to cut them.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

What kind of dinky houses are you trimming out that take you 30-40 seconds to get to your saw. I figure on my average house I trim it takes me like 2-4 minutes from pencil tick to test fit.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

(on a side not what is with all the guys from the NE on CT, there seems to be ALOT of us)


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Still a long drive to get your bits sharpened. :w00t:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

leo, for a window install. I install the sill. and then set my reveal marks all around the ext jambs, and take my measurements. sometimes for several windows in a room. I go down to saw and cut the two legs for each window, and if i've already done a head piece before and they are the same size windows, the heads are all the same size. I glue, miter and install. 

I'm talking about the time it takes to go from where you saw would be setup inside a house, to just outside the front door or garage door. even a two story house takes less than a minute to walk to the saw. i'm talking about the time for making a tick mark or measuring it. not all my trim is measured in place and tick marked.

I don't want the hassle of moving my whole setup several times. if all I am using is a miter saw, that might be ok. you can wheel it around on the CT vac, but still, you are setting up a table or bench, several times if you move to each room. 

if and when I do setup in someone's home, it's in the largest room on the first floor and when doing work upstairs you still have to walk around. I honestly know of no one outside of this forum, who moves all their equipment from room to room throughout the day.

Sometime it's just a one room renovation like a kitchen or bathroom, where do you setup then? ask the homeowner to clear out a nearby bedroom so you can setup your bench, saws vacs and equipment, not sure where you all live, but now way would that fly around my neck of the woods.

time yourself next time to walk from the second floor to outside of a house to your saw, i bet it's under a minute. if not less. then factor in the time it takes you to keep moving things like your setup and drop clothes etc. it's probably the same. 

last thing i want is a stray piece of maple flying off the chop saw during a bevel cut and have it go through someone's window or painting or TV. is it really worth that much?
(and i'm only talking about finished houses here, not new construction where it's empty and no one lives there)


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm with Dan. I've never, not ever, set up shop inside a completely furnished house. Dust collection or not, there is too much risk of dinking a wall, ceiling, etc. One accident and the repair/repaint offsets any time savings by setting up inside. Not to mention, I like to set up where I can wave to the soccer moms, who are nibbing to see what's going on.:thumbup: New construction is a different story.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

always nice to see who might be walking through the neighborhood........:whistling:whistling no wonder warner has to use a sock.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

ApgarNJ said:


> always nice to see who might be walking through the neighborhood........:whistling:whistling no wonder warner has to use a sock.


 If the lady of the house is hot, I usually recruit her to hold the door for me, if I'm handling some long wood.:whistling


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have dinged up many more casings, jambs and walls walking the material in and out to make cuts than i have when being setup inside a room. yes there are a few times when the room is too small that i can fit my gear inside or times when theres no need to even setup inside because of being in and out of a room so quick but most of my work is not like this. I'm in rooms for a min of a day. I got one next Friday. I can setup in the front room with my kit or walk down 3 lots of stair then through a full garage to the driveway outside where my trailer is. maybe a 40-50 second trip then make my cut and another 40-50 second trip. thats around 2 mins for each cut x 50+ cuts. thats over 1.5 hrs of walking back and forth to make cuts. thats if i make the cut perfect each and every time which you know never happens. I have cut pieces as much as 5 times to get them perfect. 

And about the saw. Like warner says you really get no variation in accuracy between miter or bevel cuts. the adjustment knob allows you to dial that bevel in to the exact degree. my makita was a ***** for this as you had to hold the saw at the angle then lock the bevel. The bosch bevel adjustment is also hard work for setting bevel adjustment. i always make cuts that are higher than the fence laying down also. i have had pieces catch and make the piece flip back over the fence and nearly take your hand off. never again will i cut tall piece like that unless laying flat. that way i can clamp them as well


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

idk i think im in the Darcey camp,walking is a total waste of my valuable time,but there are many houses out there it just not practical...too much shjunk in the way


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

loneframer said:


> I'm with Dan. I've never, not ever, set up shop inside a completely furnished house. Dust collection or not, there is too much risk of dinking a wall, ceiling, etc. One accident and the repair/repaint offsets any time savings by setting up inside. Not to mention, I like to set up where I can wave to the soccer moms, who are nibbing to see what's going on.:thumbup: New construction is a different story.


 
you should have seen this guy from Lowe's the other week. he had his ridgid saw setup in the just finished kitchen, brand new hardwood floors, new painted walls that were still tacky and he was cutting all day with no extraction. the house was covered in dust. I had more dust from his saw around my saw than i had from my cuts laying the hardwoods. he was even using the brand new island as a cutting bench with his circular saw:blink:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

how do you guys find rooms big enough to even setup in, living room or great room is the only one really where you can comfortably setup equipment and work without causing damage. if that's the room that just got gutted, that's fine. it's empty. but what about just doing windows and doors you are trimming inside, you are trimming outside, etc. i walk very fast and i make sure i go to the saw with a few cuts at a time. i try to go out a mudroom entrance through the garage or into the garage, i may be setup in there. 

it only works for certain jobs to be able to setup and stay in one room all day. i'll give you this, if it's a larger room, and we are doing built-ins or a bookcase or entertainment center etc. and it must be built on site. i will have the room emptied for me and setup there. like lone said, dust extraction or not, you will get some dust that lingers. most people have rooms filled with furniture and valuables. why risk it? i'm done trying to argue my point. lol. you guys do it your way. i'll do it mine. i get my jobs done and make money and charge plenty for what I do. oh, and one last thing, when the saws and equip. is outside it's that much closer to the truck to load in at the end of the day.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tomstruble said:


> idk i think im in the Darcey camp,walking is a total waste of my valuable time,but there are many houses out there it just not practical...too much shjunk in the way


 

no excuses Tom. I trimmed this kitchen out whilst it was like this. The kapex having a small footprint really helped. The Bosch couldn't do that :thumbsup:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

BCConstruction said:


> you should have seen this guy from Lowe's the other week. he had his ridgid saw setup in the just finished kitchen, brand new hardwood floors, new painted walls that were still tacky and he was cutting all day with no extraction. the house was covered in dust. I had more dust from his saw around my saw than i had from my cuts laying the hardwoods. he was even using the brand new island as a cutting bench with his circular saw:blink:


that's what they get for hiring a guy from lowes. lol


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

don't get mad danny:sad:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ApgarNJ said:


> how do you guys find rooms big enough to even setup in, living room or great room is the only one really where you can comfortably setup equipment and work without causing damage. if that's the room that just got gutted, that's fine. it's empty. but what about just doing windows and doors you are trimming inside, you are trimming outside, etc. i walk very fast and i make sure i go to the saw with a few cuts at a time. i try to go out a mudroom entrance through the garage or into the garage, i may be setup in there.
> 
> it only works for certain jobs to be able to setup and stay in one room all day. i'll give you this, if it's a larger room, and we are doing built-ins or a bookcase or entertainment center etc. and it must be built on site. i will have the room emptied for me and setup there. like lone said, dust extraction or not, you will get some dust that lingers. most people have rooms filled with furniture and valuables. why risk it? i'm done trying to argue my point. lol. you guys do it your way. i'll do it mine. i get my jobs done and make money and charge plenty for what I do. oh, and one last thing, when the saws and equip. is outside it's that much closer to the truck to load in at the end of the day.


 
i used to do it the same exact way and i still do. just that when theres room and it calls for it the festool gear can be taken inside when most others can not. dust extraction for most brands is an after thought. The bosch proves this and is the reason i wouldnt by it. I might buy it in a 10" for cutting stuff i wouldnt cut with the kapex though.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

For the price of the Kapex, I'll get 2 Axial Glides, or close to it. The time I save not swinging the table back and forth for opposing miters will make up for the half hour a day I spend walking outside to cut.:laughing:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm not mad Tom, and don't call me DANNY, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr or I might get mad.............


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

you can call me tommy:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Has that scotch in the "shop" thread aged any better yet? :shifty:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I plug two things in, my CT-22 and my air compressor.

I am friends with a guy that installs 6 figure kitchens, guess where his tools are at?

I set the saw on the floor a lot when working in a room. 

It takes me less time to get my stuff out, set up and cleaned up vs. having to sweep someone's garage up or clean up all my saw dust outside. That's right, even outside I hook up the CT. Customers comment about it all the time and say how greatfull they are about me leaving no mess inside or outside.

If you have never tried it, or used a set up like that, there is no way to compare another set up to it.

I literally make no mess, no lingering floating dust either.


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## Carpentryil.com (Oct 9, 2010)

U have to try fast tool Germany engineering but fancy toy


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## MSLiechty (Sep 13, 2010)

TBFGhost said:


> That ceiling tile is trashed....I pulled it out to replace it. And tell me about warped tiles. The Low voltage guys came through the other day, moved the tiles as needed and left them hanging any which way. By the time i got there they were warped already...


I just came off this job as soon as we installed the tile the data cable folks were removing them. 

Can you say change order


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

it does have play, but it take more effort to move the head, but it not slop in the mech....all the joints are tight, the play comes from what I would guess has to be the actual castings "bending" or giving a TINY amount.

It doesn't move as far as my old 5412....and I walked through Deep **** checking out they play on the display says and found some to be worse then others, but the head flex is similar to the Makita when you only have one set of rails extented...but the Bosch is un-godly smoother.

The more I use the saw, the more I notice how the smooth gliding action of the saw helps reduce the chance of "forcing" the head out of position anyway. It sorta a double wammy against head flex. I doubt you can thumb the guard...and If i just had upgraded to the Makita you did...and it doesn't have arbor run-out and you happy with it...I wouldn't bother.


basically, even with the gay vertical cutting capacity...I like the saw very much.


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## MSLiechty (Sep 13, 2010)

anyone looking fro a DW716 so i can get the new bosch. I was holding out for the Milwaukee until this one came out....

ML


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MSLiechty said:


> anyone looking fro a DW716 so i can get the new bosch. I was holding out for the Milwaukee until this one came out....
> 
> ML


I'm looking for a used 5412 from Lebanon, Noo Joyzee! :whistling


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Its looking like it might be yours...give it a week and I will let you know.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

TBFGhost said:


> Its looking like it might be yours...give it a week and I will let you know.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Still waiting to hear back on that DW...sorry dude but I haven't forgotten about you


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

TBFGhost said:


> Still waiting to hear back on that DW...sorry dude but I haven't forgotten about you


:laughing:

No worries brother! 

I can wait! 

:thumbsup:


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## manasota (Oct 15, 2010)

Bosch blade guards are monstrous!


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