# Starting my Own Company? (19 years old)



## A.J (Jun 12, 2011)

Hello, I'm new to these forums. A brief background about myself, I am 19 years old and have been in the Drywall industry for under 8 months.

I was attending a well known Canadian University for Pre-Law school but I decided that I wanted to do something more hands on, and with the amount of opportunities in trades, it lead me to drywall.

I have gone to school for Drywall installation and I work in a Union as an apprentice for now.


Owning and operating my own business is a must for me, I'm a hardworker, I think outside the box, and I get the job done, period.

I'd like to get more advice from other General Contractors/ Business owners. I'm 19 years old, motivated and hungry..And I ultimately want to own my own Business. How much more experience do I need in my trade until I'm ready? Or should I keep working my Union job and try to get my own jobs on weekends for now?


I apologize for the long life story, but I finally found a site/ resource with people experienced enough to answer my question. I'd greatly appreciate feedback.

Thanks.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

You've already got better communication skills than most in the industry...I'd say you're on the right track so far. :thumbup:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

A.J said:


> Hello, I'm new to these forums. A brief background about myself, I am 19 years old and have been in the Drywall industry for under 8 months.
> 
> I was attending a well known Canadian University for Pre-Law school but I decided that I wanted to do something more hands on, and with the amount of opportunities in trades, it lead me to drywall.
> 
> ...


Drywall is a skill and like any skill you will reach a point where you know inside yourself you have enough skill to make the change. I don't think anybody is really ready because business is always tougher than it seems at first. With that said It's a lot of fun and you are certainly able to make it work with a good attitude and a strong desire to stick with it. 

Like anything else you just start small and move forward.

Mike


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## Countryboy94 (Nov 23, 2010)

1. Make absolutely that this is what you want to do. you mentioned you are union and that you've been doing this for 8 months or so- so its safe to say you know what your doing. just take a step back and see if youll be as hungry and motivated about your trade when your 45 as you are now.

2. Keep your day job for as long as possible..until you have steady work, and can no longer juggle your business and your day job. trust me..youll know exactly when that happens 

3. Put yourself out there. I know it sounds like dating advice...but it works. Be recognizable and professional in your community. Putting business cards in your local churches bulletins is about $50..great investment. a lot of people in my town do the "doughnuts and coffee" trick...set up in a public place with lots of people, ie park, near polling areas during election time, outside of PTA meetings, anywhere acceptable. set up a table with free doughnuts and coffee..people will flock to you. have a million business cards ready and pass them out with every free doughnut. Put signs up outside of every neighborhood and busy residential intersection. 

4. Dont forget to relax. Seriously. Here in Omaha, you can have a non white christmas, but then 2 weeks of intense blizzarding. during that time im up all hours of the day and night running on five hour energy and coffee. but as soon as i can take a breather i always do. relax, have a hobby, spend time with your family or friends- do not be consumed by your work, or it will consume you.

You sound like you do have great determination and hustle, keep it up, smile and shake hands well youll be fine! good luck!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Give it a couple of years. Learn all that you can about your craft and more importantly the business side of it. You can always hire out the work, but if you don't know what they are supposed to do, then you will forever be playing catch up.

I was the same way, but worked in the industry for over 10 years before I stepped out on my own. Also remember that you will need a lot of capitol to start.


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## JarrattProp (May 25, 2011)

Running a business and being a skilled employee are two very different things. 8 months is not long enough in my opinion to make the jump. How will you handle your cashflow issues if a customer does not pay on time or at all? Who will do your paperwork while you are tending to the job side of things? Just a few things to think about.

I would recommend reading E-myth for Contractors by Michael Gerber to start. Then find a good mentor locally or online and question the he!! out of them before you make the jump.

Plan Big, Start Small, Act Now!


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

8 months is tough to make a go of it, but if you have the right support you can do it.

When I was 17 I was more or less forced into business for myself, the guy I was working for divorced his wife and left town and his son and I were left to do the work, I left the company and his son ran it...into the ground. Being from a smaller town the site supervisors for the big builder in town were actually neighbors of my folks, who came over and asked me to come and do the work since my former co-worker had given up.

So, green behind the ears I went and got started, thank God I still lived at home and had no expenses, I was making money hand over fist but did not know how to manage it. That took years.

Moral of what I am trying to tell you...it's not just the trade which you do, it's the business end of things, which is very important.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Go back to school, seriously.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

JBM said:


> Go back to school, seriously.


Why?

I didn't and I enjoy what I am doing and seem to be much happier than my college educated friends who piss and moan on facebook all day :thumbup:


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## richardframing (Dec 31, 2010)

You are 19 bud. Remember it doesn't have to be an abrupt transition. Start hustling basements, small jobs etc, and keep your day job or better yet go to school. You got lots of time. Life's not a track meet; its a marathon. Eight months experience. You need a lot more than that before you have a mastery of your trade. Meanwhile, get incorporated, get WCB or whatever it is you need in ontrario and start subbing for a while. Work your but off for several years and slowly your jobs, contacts, experience all get better. 

Good luck,


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

Do you still live with your folks?

I would say establish a little bit under yourself (don't go crazy) make sure you have a good tool base, learn about the business end of working for yourself (by far the hardest for me, quarterly taxes, estimating, marketing) and start to moonlight until you can get a good grasp on things.

I learned more in the first 5 or 6 jobs on my own than I did in 4 years from the guy I was working with, regarding business practice anyway. Lots of stuff you just can't learn about without experiencing it first hand.

Good Luck


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Unions and capitalism are two different teams. If you want to start your own gig, great, but then, don't work for a union. For a younger guy who wants to eventually start their own business, find an older guy to help show the ropes. Take c.c. classes or community classes in starting a business...etc.


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## CCW (Aug 14, 2009)

I can't add much that hasn't already been said about going into business and agree with the previous posters.

I would suggest that since you are in the union that you check the union rules about doing side work, some don't care, some frown on it, and others will burn you at the stake. 

Make sure that you are willing to suffer the consequences.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Why?
> 
> I didn't and I enjoy what I am doing and seem to be much happier than my college educated friends who piss and moan on facebook all day :thumbup:


Because i dont consider someone 19 years of age mature enough, or experienced enough to be able to make a decision if he should be a lawyer or a sheetrocker?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i think he wants to be a buisness owner,not a sheetrocker


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

Countryboy94 said:


> 1. Make absolutely that this is what you want to do. you mentioned you are union and that you've been doing this for 8 months or so- so its safe to say you know what your doing. just take a step back and see if youll be as hungry and motivated about your trade when your 45 as you are now.
> 
> 2. Keep your day job for as long as possible..until you have steady work, and can no longer juggle your business and your day job. trust me..youll know exactly when that happens
> 
> ...


I think we just found Oprah's replacement!!! :clap:
Great advice!! :thumbup:


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

JBM said:


> Go back to school, seriously.


My sentiments exactly!! :thumbup:
Although it is noble of you to want to make a go of it, weighing out drywall to pre-law is not a very difficult decision IMO. 
In a few years, you could have your own practice and make upwards of $250/hr or more. :clap::clap:
Thats not going to happen in drywall. :no:
If I were in your shoes, it would be off to law school and beyond!!!


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Why?
> 
> I didn't and I enjoy what I am doing and seem to be much happier than my college educated friends who piss and moan on facebook all day :thumbup:


That may be true, but if he goes to law school, becomes a lawyer and has his own practice, he will be pissing out the best of everything!! :laughing:


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## Countryboy94 (Nov 23, 2010)

thomasjmarino said:


> I think we just found Oprah's replacement!!! :clap:
> Great advice!! :thumbup:


Thanks man! I'm 16 myself and started doing handyman work at 15, loved it, and this last winter i started my own snow removal business. i made a million mistakes [sometimes costly] but im proud to have learned from each one...any other teens being their own boss just shoot me a pm id be glad to help


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

thomasjmarino said:


> That may be true, but if he goes to law school, becomes a lawyer and has his own practice, he will be pissing out the best of everything!! :laughing:


You must not have access to the P&R section...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

the vast majority of lawyers don't make the kind of money we think they do:no:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

tomstruble said:


> the vast majority of lawyers don't make the kind of money we think they do:no:



They make MORE???


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## richardframing (Dec 31, 2010)

Bottom line is your going to have to work your but off either way. Nothing good comes easy or free. Study the lifestyle of both. Drywallers that make lots of money have a lawyer to ensure they screw the guy that works for them legally and they get paid for big contracts. If you make 150k a year as a lawyer than you have to be better than say %60 percent of them just guessing. In the drywall business that numbers like %95 percent.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

If you in school and you don't want to be a lawyer and instead of that get into sheetrock industry, before you drop-out, I would have your head examined... After you do that, finish school and get a law degree, so if you don't make it doing sheetrock, you have the law degree and you don't end up flipping burgers for a living. 

Now, if you don't find this as a sound advise, work for a few more years in the Union, get some experience, learn the industry, make contacts with material suppliers, save some money for scaffolding, tools, equipment, open and register your company, get needed licenses and insurance, put a crew together... then try to get a few jobs to get you going and generate the money flow, and if you think you can do that to make a living, quit the union and off you go into the real world... Good luck :thumbsup:


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

And no offense to anyone doing sheetrock, but that would be the last trade in the universe i would pick up, let alone try to get a business going.

You think your smart, your not, stay in school.


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## A.J (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks to everyone that posted a reply. I read every single one and most peoples responses make sense to me and were helpful.

Just to address the school situation and how somebody above said "you think your smart, your not"

Having an 88% average in my highschool and making valedictorian dosen't necessarily make me a smart kid. Having high grades does not promise you a bright future, I could have done school for 7 years and ended up with a law degree, But I was honest with myself. 

I'm starting out in Drywall and I plan to work weekends with my uncle who has a successful renovation company so I can pickup the nits and bits on cabinet making, hardwood, tiles, demolition, etcetera. 

I did 1 year and a half of University and I hated it, I figure within 3 years I'll have enough experience to open my own line of business gradually... I have a strong experience with Marketing and business operations and I hope to put it in use in the next few years.

Once again, Thanks everyone for replying. Its safe to say I've got atleast another 2-3 years left until I can make it on my own.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

AJ,

You sure don't write like most 19-year-olds I have encountered recently.

It's an important skill and you have it down! Communication is KEY! :thumbsup:

Good luck to you!


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## Bweikel (Feb 20, 2011)

Can you even get a license with only 8 months experience? Here you need at least 4 years journeymen level experience. 

I think you should stay with it keep passionate and learn as much as you can. It takes years to master and understand your trade as well as the industry itself. Good luck.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

A.J,
It is rare for someone to come onto this site and seem as articulate, humble, and understanding as you are. You seem wise beyond your years, but...

You asked 
It depends on your current situation (I.e. Living at home, how long...). If you're living with family then I wouldn't rush it. Learn the business and really decide if it's the path for you. Get some jobs on your own, it will be good experience. Give it a couple of years, then go for it! 

Personally, I changed careers. Worked all my life from 15 in retail. Went to school majoring in accounting (cuz I was great with numbers) while working full-time in a paint store. Then realized, I can't sit at a desk all day! IMO, you're ahead of the game, seem very intelligent, and humble. *don't let these words go to your head*

You're still young and ambitious. Give it time. Just don't wait until you have a family. Then forget about starting your own business. :whistling


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

AJ go back to school and finish it... you still a kid and you might sound smart and articulate, you don't know sh^*t about anything. Don't waste your life on BS... Get education, get experience, then see what path you want to take. How you make your bed, is how you will sleep in it. Period.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Young guys seem to do really well in business. Lack of experience can be a blessing. Being older has benefits but we are also tainted by our experiences and form a bias that might not be good. Young people have no debt, no families, no obligations, and a great attitude. 

Nobody knows if you can or can't, that's 100% you my friend. But just remember something really important.

"It was a bunch of amateurs who built the Arc and it was a bunch of professionals with experience who built the Titanic"


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

Countryboy94 said:


> Thanks man! I'm 16 myself and started doing handyman work at 15, loved it, and this last winter i started my own snow removal business. i made a million mistakes [sometimes costly] but im proud to have learned from each one...any other teens being their own boss just shoot me a pm id be glad to help


16 and you have that kind of sense? :notworthy
Wow! You either have had great nurturing or your an old soul in a young man's body. :thumbup1:


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

tomstruble said:


> the vast majority of lawyers don't make the kind of money we think they do:no:


Neither do contractors.
Give me the choice between lawyer and contractor??
I would pick lawyer.
Easier on the body and the mind, especially when you get older.


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## Countryboy94 (Nov 23, 2010)

thomasjmarino said:


> 16 and you have that kind of sense? :notworthy
> Wow! You either have had great nurturing or your an old soul in a young man's body. :thumbup1:


Thanks brother  its the nurture...everyone in my family is either retired military, a small business owner or a contractor so i just grew up with work.

@ mike, love the metaphor


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

Countryboy94 said:


> Thanks brother  its the nurture...everyone in my family is either retired military, a small business owner or a contractor so i just grew up with work.
> 
> @ mike, love the metaphor


You're on your way to greatness my friend. :thumbup:


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

So you aspire to a contracting business but law school is the pits. OK, switch majors and look at a business degree. Even if you become self made and never take on another job, the discipline you develop in the pursuit of a college degree can benefit you as much as the diploma itself.

Stick with the drywall and weekends with your uncle while you go to school if you can manage all that.

There is a huge difference between tradesman and businessman, but that does not make them mutually exclusive. A sound background in both puts you well ahead of many.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

greg24k said:


> AJ go back to school and finish it... you still a kid and you might sound smart and articulate, you don't know sh^*t about anything. Don't waste your life on BS... Get education, get experience, then see what path you want to take. How you make your bed, is how you will sleep in it. Period.


So your saying you want him to go back to school and blow $150k just to have an "education". BS, if hes working the trades now and thats what he thinks he wants to do let him do it and make some money getting real life experience. And im gonna stop here because anything else i have to say will more than likely get this thrown in the basement with the other college thread.


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

An old boy buddy of mine who has been a mason for all of his adult life told me years ago that he tells every young guy this;

*You can work hard for 4 years and have it easy for the rest of your life, or you can take it easy for 4 years and have it hard for the rest of your life.*

I think that pretty much sums it up!


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

thomasjmarino said:


> An old boy buddy of mine who has been a mason for all of his adult life told me years ago that he tells every young guy this;
> 
> *You can work hard for 4 years and have it easy for the rest of your life, or you can take it easy for 4 years and have it hard for the rest of your life.*
> 
> I think that pretty much sums it up!


So why is it that 3/4 of the people i went to school with that went to college either dont have a job in the field their degree was in or totally hate the job they have? I'll tell you what, you learn to work with your hands and take pride in what you do your always gonna have a job somewhere. So what instead of having a 200k a year job with a 750k mortgage you can make 45k a year and live a modest life.

All more money brings is more headaches. And i dont care who you are, the greatest majority of people live above their means anyhow so it just becomes a matter of what material items make you happy. And if its all about having the biggest or best toys good luck, your never gonna be happy.


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## thomasjmarino (May 1, 2011)

jkfox624 said:


> So why is it that 3/4 of the people i went to school with that went to college either dont have a job in the field their degree was in or totally hate the job they have? I'll tell you what, you learn to work with your hands and take pride in what you do your always gonna have a job somewhere. So what instead of having a 200k a year job with a 750k mortgage you can make 45k a year and live a modest life.
> 
> All more money brings is more headaches. And i dont care who you are, the greatest majority of people live above their means anyhow so it just becomes a matter of what material items make you happy. And if its all about having the biggest or best toys good luck, your never gonna be happy.


Ahh to be young, dumb and full of c**. :no:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

jkfox624 said:


> So why is it that 3/4 of the people i went to school with that went to college either dont have a job in the field their degree was in or totally hate the job they have? I'll tell you what, you learn to work with your hands and take pride in what you do your always gonna have a job somewhere. So what instead of having a 200k a year job with a 750k mortgage you can make 45k a year and live a modest life.
> 
> All more money brings is more headaches. And i dont care who you are, the greatest majority of people live above their means anyhow so it just becomes a matter of what material items make you happy. And if its all about having the biggest or best toys good luck, your never gonna be happy.


Why? Maybe you know the wrong people. Maybe it's not the education that's the problem, maybe it's the person that is the big factor. Statistics show education creates more money if that's your measuring stick. I know educated people that are worth millions......most of my customers who buy from me are educated. 

I can show you top notch contractors who are millionaire and I can show you top notch contractors who are broke. It's all about the individual and life has always been like that. A person who has boat loads of dedication and stocked full of enthusiasm can do anything they want in life educated or not. Again, it's the individual that matters.

Many contractors who have been in business for 25 plus years have on the job education yet they can't market themselves, some contractors have mastered it........again, It's the individual that matters most. This forum is full of all different types of people from all walks of life, some get it some don't, some are young and some are old. 

The key takeaway here is the individual has to want one or the other, a person who doesn't want to go to college but still goes is headed for a bumpy path. Same wih construction.

Regardless of your friends and neighbors the world can be a much different place than what you see around you. Gross assumptions are almost always different than statistics.

Most construction companies go belly up and the owner dies dead broke. Working with your hands is irrelevant to success.

Mike


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## Big (Jun 16, 2009)

Drywall or Law School? Med School or Carpenter? Dentist or Painter? Gimme a break...Your immaturity is oozing from every comment you make. 

My biggest regret in life is not getting a degree. I have done trade work for years and love it, but an education would have prepared me in the early years for sure. At least get your business degree if you want to start a business. 

I would'nt hire you, no offense, but 8 months ain't nothing. You insult the trade with the mind set that you are an equal to the professionals that you will be bidding against with 8 months experience and ZERO experience in running a business. Why some one assumes a business will run itself because they know how to spread mud, drive a nail, or glue PVC drives me insane!


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

Big said:


> Drywall or Law School? Med School or Carpenter? Dentist or Painter? Gimme a break...Your immaturity is oozing from every comment you make.
> 
> My biggest regret in life is not getting a degree. I have done trade work for years and love it, but an education would have prepared me in the early years for sure. At least get your business degree if you want to start a business.
> 
> I would'nt hire you, no offense, but 8 months ain't nothing. You insult the trade with the mind set that you are an equal to the professionals that you will be bidding against with 8 months experience and ZERO experience in running a business. Why some one assumes a business will run itself because they know how to spread mud, drive a nail, or glue PVC drives me insane!


That's an awesome 2nd post!
But, I like Mike's above better. 

I know a few successful GC's that don't know shet about how to use a screw gun. But they're good at organizing, preparing, and selling. I don't like them. But they sometimes become successful. They require the knowledge of their subs to provide them with info. They can read people well...


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Big said:


> Drywall or Law School? Med School or Carpenter? Dentist or Painter? Gimme a break...Your immaturity is oozing from every comment you make.
> 
> My biggest regret in life is not getting a degree. I have done trade work for years and love it, but an education would have prepared me in the early years for sure. At least get your business degree if you want to start a business.
> 
> I would'nt hire you, no offense, but 8 months ain't nothing. You insult the trade with the mind set that you are an equal to the professionals that you will be bidding against with 8 months experience and ZERO experience in running a business. Why some one assumes a business will run itself because they know how to spread mud, drive a nail, or glue PVC drives me insane!


So, if this is the biggest single regret in your life what are you waiting for? Lots of adults go back to school, if your that upset then go do it. My neighbor is in her 40's, 5 kids and a dead husband. She took care of her family, worked, and went back to school. She just graduated and is going on interviews as we speak. She did it. I guess it depends on how bad you want something. 

Mike


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

jkfox624 said:


> So your saying you want him to go back to school and blow $150k just to have an "education". BS, if hes working the trades now and thats what he thinks he wants to do let him do it and make some money getting real life experience. And im gonna stop here because anything else i have to say will more than likely get this thrown in the basement with the other college thread.


What I'm saying is he can go and shovel sh^*t for all I care... But this age and day I doubt he will get far hanging sheetrock for $7-10 a board with all the competition. So yes, get some education, get something you can fall back on, then you can do what ever you want.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

Have you worked for a grouchy old boss yet? I think that is mandatory for a tradesmen before you can go out on your own.

You need a good solid year at least of getting yelled at all the time and then watching the old guy do it twice as fast and neater than you, character building, as some would call it.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

sitdwnandhngon said:


> Have you worked for a grouchy old boss yet? I think that is mandatory for a tradesmen before you can go out on your own.
> 
> You need a good solid year at least of getting yelled at all the time and then watching the old guy do it twice as fast and neater than you, character building, as some would call it.


NOW THIS IS SOMETHING I AGREE WITH! :laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I went to bartendng school, does that count for anything?


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## A.J (Jun 12, 2011)

Big said:


> Drywall or Law School? Med School or Carpenter? Dentist or Painter? Gimme a break...Your immaturity is oozing from every comment you make.
> 
> My biggest regret in life is not getting a degree. I have done trade work for years and love it, but an education would have prepared me in the early years for sure. At least get your business degree if you want to start a business.
> 
> I would'nt hire you, no offense, but 8 months ain't nothing. You insult the trade with the mind set that you are an equal to the professionals that you will be bidding against with 8 months experience and ZERO experience in running a business. Why some one assumes a business will run itself because they know how to spread mud, drive a nail, or glue PVC drives me insane!



Of course I'm in school right now, my union enrolled me in a Red seal course for drywall which leads to a certificate..which later on will lead to my Construction management bachelor degree which I will possess when I am 22/23.

I posted on these forums to get an understanding of how much experience one needs before running a business, "Big" with all due respect, your lifes failures have nothing to do with this topic. I can go to Law school for 7 years and be in over 100k debt, then marry my highschool sweetheart, and have 3 kids, and a mortgage and live an ordinary life. I refuse to do that. I got goals, I got dreams, and I plan to reach every single one of them with my feet planted on the ground. I agree that school is VITAL and neccesary and is one of the most important factors in ones success. Once again, I switched routes and I wanted to do a bachelors in construction management, they told me I need a red seal certificate in a trade so I chose drywall and I should have my certificate within 1.5 years then I will start my construction management program.

Thanks again to about the 95% of the posters on this thread, you were insightful and very helpful.


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## A.J (Jun 12, 2011)

Big said:


> Drywall or Law School? Med School or Carpenter? Dentist or Painter? Gimme a break...Your immaturity is oozing from every comment you make.
> 
> My biggest regret in life is not getting a degree. I have done trade work for years and love it, but an education would have prepared me in the early years for sure. At least get your business degree if you want to start a business.
> 
> I would'nt hire you, no offense, but 8 months ain't nothing. You insult the trade with the mind set that you are an equal to the professionals that you will be bidding against with 8 months experience and ZERO experience in running a business. Why some one assumes a business will run itself because they know how to spread mud, drive a nail, or glue PVC drives me insane!



I insult the trades? Where i'm from having an open mind and asking questions to people who know them is the way to do things. No, not any Joe Blow can open a business and make money. There are tradespeople in this industry who have excellent trade skills and do their job very well but they fail when they open their business because they can't handle the business side of things. And just a quick background about myself, I know how a business is run. I was 17 years old when I got my first marketing job and in my spare time I like to read and educate myself on topics such as marketing, management, and self-improvement psychology books. I can't wait to learn the trade, get my certificate, then get my bachelors in construction management. But anyways I recommend you educate yourself slightly more because with an attitude like yours, I would highly doubt any young guys would want to learn from you, or work with you. Thanks for the input though, I'll take your comments and try to understand it.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Don't waste your money on education if it is not what you want to do.

I wasted lots of money on university when I was fresh out of High School and I still have a large debt from 3 years of wasted time doing something I didn't like. I likely picked up a lot of my problem-solving skills from the math and engineering classes I took, but I could have taken them separately or audited the classes for a small fraction of the cost.

Now that I'm older and have some life and _real_ work experience I started working towards a degree in Architectural Science while staying in business because I enjoy it and learning a lot. (And I'm paying up front and not getting into debt from it.)



Mike's Plumbing said:


> Why? Maybe you know the wrong people. Maybe it's not the education that's the problem, maybe it's the person that is the big factor. Statistics show education creates more money if that's your measuring stick. I know educated people that are worth millions......most of my customers who buy from me are educated.
> 
> I can show you top notch contractors who are millionaire and I can show you top notch contractors who are broke. It's all about the individual and life has always been like that. A person who has boat loads of dedication and stocked full of enthusiasm can do anything they want in life educated or not. Again, it's the individual that matters.
> 
> ...


Exactly.

Reminds me of the martial arts forums I used to frequent when I was a little younger. There were always debates on which MA could beat which. People saying this one is better than that one.

You know what? It doesn't matter. In the end, "*what*" doesn't nearly matter as much as "*who*". It is the individual that makes the real difference.


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## Big (Jun 16, 2009)

A.J said:


> I insult the trades? Where i'm from having an open mind and asking questions to people who know them is the way to do things. No, not any Joe Blow can open a business and make money. There are tradespeople in this industry who have excellent trade skills and do their job very well but they fail when they open their business because they can't handle the business side of things. And just a quick background about myself, I know how a business is run. I was 17 years old when I got my first marketing job and in my spare time I like to read and educate myself on topics such as marketing, management, and self-improvement psychology books. I can't wait to learn the trade, get my certificate, then get my bachelors in construction management. But anyways I recommend you educate yourself slightly more because with an attitude like yours, I would highly doubt any young guys would want to learn from you, or work with you. Thanks for the input though, I'll take your comments and try to understand it.





A.J said:


> Of course I'm in school right now, my union enrolled me in a Red seal course for drywall which leads to a certificate..which later on will lead to my Construction management bachelor degree which I will possess when I am 22/23.
> 
> I posted on these forums to get an understanding of how much experience one needs before running a business, "Big" with all due respect, your lifes failures have nothing to do with this topic. I can go to Law school for 7 years and be in over 100k debt, then marry my highschool sweetheart, and have 3 kids, and a mortgage and live an ordinary life. I refuse to do that. I got goals, I got dreams, and I plan to reach every single one of them with my feet planted on the ground. I agree that school is VITAL and neccesary and is one of the most important factors in ones success. Once again, I switched routes and I wanted to do a bachelors in construction management, they told me I need a red seal certificate in a trade so I chose drywall and I should have my certificate within 1.5 years then I will start my construction management program.
> 
> Thanks again to about the 95% of the posters on this thread, you were insightful and very helpful.


AJ: You never mentioned you had an ongoing plan to obtain your Bachelors in construction management. All I seen was someone that started school and quit after a year and a half. I have 6 children, 4 that are boys. You were getting my "You aint quitting anything you start---Quit whining that you hate it and grow a set... speech". I don't care what the trade is, law or drywall....Prepare yourself!! That's what I was preaching. I respect ALL work. Don't omit vital details to the story line next time! I now see that you switched and didn't quit, we're cool now. You're on the right track and you got ba!!s, mandatory in any business. 

You mentioned my failures...hmmm....I didn't mention that I had any....:whistling

@Mike: a degree is still on my bucket list...my little brother delayed starting college for a year when he finished high school. Finally went back and got his degree...in his 30's with 3 kids. Sis-n-law received her bachelors in her 30's with 3 teens and a deadbeat husband at home. This contributes to my strong feelings on the subject. Yeah I know it can be done, just makes sense to do it when it's easier.

Back when I "only" had 4 kids I did my 1500 hours at local Barber school. I maintain that state license as well. If i never get that degree, I'll retire and get me chair and scream at the "no-it-all" youngsters while I lower their ears!!


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## Acres (Feb 12, 2011)

Don't want to nitpick here, but since your here to learn lets start with the very basics. You want to start with a business then work up to a company..


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## LFT (Jun 25, 2011)

I started my business almost 2 years ago and this forum has been such an amazing tool. I am 21 and started my business after blowing my knee and my military career. Having bounced around many jobs in high school and soaking up any skill I could. I decided to take the leap. 

I was confident in my skills but business was a shock. Starting with no tools, business experience and minimal money. The number one thing you need is a reliable vehicle. I built hot rods and race cars in school and quickly realized they don't get tools and employees to jobs very well. Get a good reliable truck and keep it that way. The paperwork takes more time then I could have ever imagined. 

Getting your wcb, business license(s), bank accounts ect. takes a longtime. Grow slow!!! Bringing on employees to get more jobs done is a great idea but the decision between food on your table or paying an employee is a crappy feeling and I spent a lot of time hungry before I toned down my optimism a bit. 

Having done trades in one form or another I have met a lot of great trades people but believe me there are a lot who will see your age and try to take advantage of you. Work hard and make your results speak for you. If your love what you do you will make it work. I thank all the great people around me that helped me get off the ground couldn't have done it without them. Good friends family and mentors are your greatest asset.


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## CCW (Aug 14, 2009)

Education is great, experience is necessary, but the best education and experience comes from the school of hard knocks - the one place you will never graduate from or get out of.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

IMHO, if you really want to start a business in construction, you should spend enough time in your chosen trade to master it. When you start your business you will have your hands full running your company, and keeping up with the business side. It will be that much harder if your still mastering your trade, and there's always going to be CE in your trade if you plan to stay any good. 

Also, you need to try and write a business plan, and set aside at least 3 months of operating capitol, including your own salary. You need to have all the tools of your trade, most likely in multiples for a crew. 

Also, don't jump into drywall or any other trade if its not truly what you want to do. If other trades interest you, try them out. Work for good company's, expose yourself to good project management. Read publications about your trade and business in general. Network your ass off, get a good list of contacts built up. JAW


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## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

AJ,
We all take different paths to get where we are. You seem to have the will which means you will find the way to become a business owner.
Best of luck to you!


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

I would say the worst thing about being a carpenter in the states is everybody who buys a hammer from home depot calls them selves a carpenter. I would love to be able to put a Dr. or a DDS next to my name but I knew I couldnt do it. I didnt like spending 4 years in apprenticeship school I couldnt imagine 7 years of college. I agree that I make allot more than allot of my friends with student loans but not the doctors and lawyers. Not even close!
It sucks that every 1st year apprentice with a DBA thinks he can open a carpentry business. Im not saying you are, I know you just wanted to know how much experience was needed. 
Everytime its about to rain and the elbow I used to run drywall screws hurts I think if I really made the right decision. IMO from personal experience the amount of experience that is needed is journeyman level plus training of your own apprentice. Or a forman position for a year or two. Just because you need to know how to talk/deal with people. And money depending on your credit score. Im not talking you need enough to start your subway franchise but you need money. 
Now there are allot of one guy shows who say you dont need any money to go out on your own and that probably true. But like in my experience, your making 60k plus benefits with a union company that supplys all power tools. So if you go out on your own your going to want to beat that and your going to need startup capitol. 
As far as the guy who said union isnt capitolism???? I dont want to get into a big union debate here but I own a union company and I bid on non union jobs and union jobs and Im selling a product and service. By owning a union shop it just means I have to pay a fair wage and hire x amount of apprentices for every so many journeyman. My minimum wage is a little different thats it. I can fire anyone I want for whatever reason. Its not the UAW or the govn teaching jobs. If my guys arent hanging there quota of doors there gone.


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

I know this thread is Dead, but this kid sent me a pm asking me to post like a month ago. I read it and I think there is definitely alot of interesting views.

First off, I along with 2 other friends forewent college because I knew I wasn't commited to it and didn't have bearing on where I wanted to go. So I didn't. I like building things and I like running businesses. I can tell you now that after 6 years of business starting when I was 17, I wouldn't change a thing. Doctors or Lawyers just have a stigma around them, people that mention them and compare to them need to grow up.

Part of the reason Doctors make so much? They spent 12 years in school. They start making money when they are 30. By that time I will outright own multiple rental properies and have a goal of 5 million a year in gross revenue. So they better hope to make $250 an hr just to keep up. Compound interest is a amazing thing. So every dollar you save now in retirement, will be over 3 times what they do. Second, you have that money to invest, no kids or family to look after. These are very powerful ways to use your money, and can make you wealthy just a easy as education.

The statistics you are basing your arguements, that education makes you make more money doesn't include unaccounted for variables. People that have a tendency to be better off have the same tendency to better themselves through schooling. So that stat off of every poor sap so you are bunchin people with a direction with flunk outs. Have you ever looked at the stats when they compared SATs and then compared success with or without college?

You can also educate yourself pretty easily just by reading and studying things you are interested in.

Don't let other people get you down, of the 3 guys I mention 2 of us are making comfortable 6 digits a year(and were at 20) and the other just enjoys climbing enough that he only works 7 months a year. Your effort will directly effect your income. So my advise to the poster is,

Save your money and Invest it, thats your leg up on thos other kids. You could have 80k in the bank before they get done racking up college debt. 

Everyone in business thinks it hard, and will say so but just direct yourself at what you want and make it happen the best you can. 

Work hard to start and find a good employee as soon as you have a decent supply of work. I found this makes me feel more responsible to supply them as well and motivates you alot. 

Unless you know someone well don't bother asking the older guys questions, just listen to what they say even when they don't know you are. They won't tell you **** until your 30.

Make your clients happy, 25 bucks an hour in better then no bucks an hour and you may get the chance to impress a new client. 

Even if you think you don't know how to do something, there are a million ways to look it up. I learned sheetrock, working for 10 bucks an hour after I had been making 25 for over a year, then I made $40 bucks hanging with the skills he tought me. 

Learn what leverage is and use it. Wisely.

Holy long post.:whistling


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

sitdwnandhngon said:


> Have you worked for a grouchy old boss yet? I think that is mandatory for a tradesmen before you can go out on your own.
> 
> You need a good solid year at least of getting yelled at all the time and then watching the old guy do it twice as fast and neater than you, character building, as some would call it.


I have worked FOR my old man for five years and WITH him for 2 years. And, there is nobody older and grouchier than him that I have encountered. I guess I am on the right track! :thumbup: Great post.


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