# Who's Still Busy/Has Work....What do you do?



## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

If any one cares to share, and to narrow this topic.... I am a carpenter/handy man. Started out as a roofer...nearly 20 yrs ago.... that lead to fixing rafters/plywood, that led to fixing siding, that lead to windows, that lead to doors, that lead to additions and decks, got slow that lead to toilet swapping and the whole guantlet of handyman torture, vinyl flooring, doorknobs, then i just became a outright dude with tools do it all kinda guy. My work and quality is good, so dont hand me no s&%t about the handyman part... ok? There is a bigger need than ever for a handyman these days with most contractors being too much about the big money to help anyone out with a window screen.... If you dont believe me askk your wife how many times she's almost went to the phone book to get something fixed that you wouldnt do!!!!!!!! Call me a liar!!!!!!!!!

Any how.... Just lookin to get a spark of ambition here..... work is slow, i came off a 2 week vacation and followed it up with another week with nothin much to do. I'm getting bored at home and need to rethink the direction i want to go from this point.

Bacically, what facet of the trades have you seen stay constant and bring in (decent) or even good money? Given the economy. Where are folks still spending money? Have to's and stuff like waterheaters im sure, but where should i direct my efforts to get back to keeping busy? The handynman bit is ok, really i like to help people, it's great to be the guy that fixes their problem.... i just gotta find some meat and taters.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

BTW, if you post during bankers hours, every day, and smell like cheap scotch wiskey you will certainly have lots of good input....I'm sure, but dont ask me to partner up ok? (smile)

Seriously, im in Cullman AL so as to not sound like i'm trying to steal anyones business, this is a small town that is basically a hay field littered with some trash and some upper class. No real industry here, maybe sawmills if you count uncle bubbas chainsaw mill and cousin enis's crosscut (hand saw) sawmilling service and pecan shelling service, towing and road side assistance, carburator repair and **** hound stud service.(Enis stays busy... but smells like a horny old **** hound) Mental picture..... Eh, gads.... reminding self that's only a made up character.... i hope....


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Been here 3 years, and the folks are great really, cullman is very nice. Has a beautiful lake and there is still some construction there, but not enough for the new guy in town to score up a job. I reccommend any one come to cullman to visit/ live.... no crime hardly, streets quiet as a church on monday after 8-9 o'clock. Great schools, did i mention the most beautiful lake in the world? (Lewis Smith lake for all you web searchers)


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## RizzoMaryland (Feb 12, 2007)

..._lights...camera....ACTION!...

_You deserve a reality TV show.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

is that a poke or a compliment? Not enough info for me to tell.


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Folks are spending money on small repairs and installs. That's all I do. With state of the economy, most folks aren't gettin' those kitchen and bath remodels. They are just trying to hold on to what they have and ride it out.

To get work, you may have to drive out to the next largest city near you and start networking with the locals. Find the big box stores and start there. I've got a few jobs just from shopping in them and have had someone ask me a few questions about a product, method of installation, etc., then they want my phone number-I usually take their's- so I can call _them_ instead.

Good luck.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

man, u an i think alike... i worry one day there gonna kick me outta lowe's for nonpayroll services offered, or give me a job... i know more about that place than the manager does. I stopped the other day to ask a guy if he needed help choosing gun nails for his framing gun, he was gonna buy 16d ringshank for fome garage shelving made out of 2x4 pine, untreated... i told him, as i could clearly see he was a novice, that he was overspending and the glue coat nails would even hold better in white pine, ofcourse he appreciated the savings, but dint flip me the difference... I hang out in there alot. I feel tempted to mingle more and more each time i go in there.

What installs do you seem to get more of? I get some screen doors and toilets, hate old toilets, man, 45-50 bucks doesn't even come close to what i wanna charge.... Know what i mean?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

If you're in a small town doing handyman work you long term success comes from building a tight customer base from repeat business from referrals and word of mouth. Treating every customer like hes your best friend. 

Usually in a small market doing that type of work you shake the bushes and trees to knock some work loose when you slow down. Meaning you contact your old customers just to get yourself back in their mind again and jog their memory about that small project that they still need to get done. You'd get a lot of the oh yeah, I'm glad you sent that, it reminded me we needed to get X done...

I run a different type of business in a different sized market so we more advertising driven so what we do keeping the work flowing for us won't really appy to you. But if you don't have that established customer base to draw from, then advertising of some sort will start bringing some new work your way, you just have to determine what you can afford to do. 

It will come down to do you have more time or money? If you have more money then time you need to put your money to work in some direct advertising sources or if you have more time then money you need to put your legs to work and spread the word through cheaper but more personally labor intensive marketing like door hanger or flyers spread in neighborhoods by yourself. That will get your phone to ring, it always has and always will.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> If you're in a small town doing handyman work you long term success comes from building a tight customer base from repeat business from referrals and word of mouth. Treating every customer like hes your best friend.
> 
> Usually in a small market doing that type of work you shake the bushes and trees to knock some work loose when you slow down. Meaning you contact your old customers just to get yourself back in their mind again and jog their memory about that small project that they still need to get done. You'd get a lot of the oh yeah, I'm glad you sent that, it reminded me we needed to get X done...
> 
> ...


 
Yep, very good advice for starters !! :thumbsup:


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

Ok, I will call you a liar if the demand is bigger than ever how come you could take three weeks off in the middle of summer?


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

always some wise ass........ GC (i note) having some interjection to make on nothing but pure speculation....... here, i make simple for you...k....????

My wife said so, there!!!!!

No really, i Private messaged some details about the "Vaccation" to Darwin... sorry about that.... would help if i had added those details to the thread.... Maybe i can copy/paste from my PM to darwin... fill you in a bit, so you dont have to sound like an ass.... see, im no liar, i think you's an ass-holio. Sorry Bro, have hard time being friendly with GC's, nothin personal, just envious..... haven't made that step yet, been trying like hell for a few years... Just envy. every one that reads my post can tell that about me, i make no bones about it. Alot of GC's are good at finding excuses, plausible denyability... jumbojacks catch phrase... fits ya know? that's the GC game... i hate that... I aspire to be different than those guys... What's your excuse? How's that cheap scotch workin out? got your mouth in overdrive, how bout getting your ass outta gear.... let off the clutch man.:thumbsup::no:

Try to paste that now... c if i can do that or not....


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

cant find the message i sent, nothing n my sent messages folder.... odd?

Any how, the supposed vaccation was to go up to Wisconsin, see my sis in law get hitched, poor bastard, and pack up the mom in law in Rockford Illinois, drive the caravan of rented trucks and trailers, should have gotten a full sived semi for a single woman, man she has the stuff, and unpacked her here in Cullman AL at her new home, that took 2 weeks, and now i have been on my arse for a week. 

3 weeks, no paycheck, i'm sorry.............im grouchy

had to go up there....wife would have killed me if i even could have choosen to stay home.

I worked like a hebrew slave the 2 -3 weeks prior to leaving for the trip to catch up on all my jobs, small as they were, must have been 20 jobs completed in 14 days... no s*#t, busted my hump, not to leave customers hangin, as i knew the move would be a marathon..... now i get back and hurt myself good... been sick about that too, back probs...and just not back to my self yet. taking advantage of some down time and trying to rethink where it is i am goona wanna go from here. Soooooooooooo........ some vaccation right? The best part of the deal is i got drunk for the first time in a long time,(me daddy now,) on freeeeee wine at the reception. I drank 3 bottles i guess in like 3-4 hours. Good buzzzzzzzzzz. Wife was so supprised i was drinkin.... she's the drinker usually, i'm the driver.

But thanks for making me get so off topic on my own thread, MR WYOMING!!!!!!! Just like a GC.... smoke and mirrors and distractions.... you guys, i tell ya!!!!!


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Know how to tell when a GC is lying?


His lips are moving.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Nice.





Andy (a GC in CA.)


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Thanks Mike, i started this thread for just that type of response.... sometimes the question we ask we know the answer to, but need the accord with others to see that's really the direction we want to go. I'm even considering a new venue, or atleast focusing on fewer things than trying to keep "doing it all" I dunno. That's why i asked for input here. Again, i like helping people with their homes/property. I also like a little more glorious work sometimes too. Those are the jobs that seem to be fading away. I'm a great framer/builder too, i love to do additions and such, but hard to get them now a days.

Keep the suggestions coming. I'm liking the feed back, tho i might not remember to reply to each post know that i am paying attention... i need the encouragement fellas. really, almost depressed here. Need a spark under my ass.

Marketing is expensive... i dont really budget much for advertising like i should, but know i should. I just haven't seen anything really work that i've thrown $ at in the past. Even the phone book adds ran me a few tho a year back when... and i got like 2 calls for bids. Talk about a waste of money. I need something... just dunno what. Suggestions there welcomed too. Door to door is my budget right now... me po boy now. really. I have no right being self employed i guess, should be flippin burgers, sorry situation.... I still do around 3-500 a week when it's hittin, but this last 3 weeks has really wore down the piggy bank. Anyone got some money they wanna loan? I'll pay you back with some good home made wine, wait, that's just old apple juice that got left out too long.... any body like vinegar flavored apples? dolla 2 98 a gallon, good stuff man..... (hands shaking, eyes watering)


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Ya know how to tell when a GC's telling the truth?

It starts out with, "I'm gonna be honest with you....
Then usually goes " it was all the masons fault.... but the painters can fix it.
Then backed up with, "i know you're upset that this is taking so long, but i've got 4 other jobs i already took a down payment on that i need to get started befor they get mad and sue me... as soon as i can make some more money i'll get someone out here to put on your door hardware, finish the paint and get the roofers to clean up their mess.

Oh, wait, that's me telling the truth. Roofers rarely clean up their own mess ver well, anyhow.

GC's dont lie much, but they are real creative with laying blame i suppose.:whistling

All in good fun, we know there's guys like that out there.... that's why some of us shine.... spread the word, rid the world of hacks and thieves. More work for the good guys. Yeah!!!!!:clap:


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

hahaha. Wow I got the fuse lit on your tampon! I was just plain with you peter so don't get hard! I actually agree about 25% of my sales are handy Andy type jobs. I have alway said if you are willing to do jobs now one else wants they pay well and theres plenty of work. The down side is you have to have a hardware store in your truck and they are tuff to schedual. You show up to fix a sticking door and end up rebuilding half the house.


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## Stevelsc8721 (Feb 21, 2008)

*Work*

I have been so slow that I cleaned up my shop and have found so much that I have saved ,I don't need to go to the supply stores for a while, like ten years LOL:thumbup: 

I have done mailing to my old clients from 1985, emailed all the tire kickers from service magic and have done the door hanger deal. That is what has worked for me.

Remember a cheap looking door hanger will bring you cheap clients.

Walking seems to work for me, just dress professional, because here in NY some people might think you are envading their homes.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I have been busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. But i have been doing the handy man thing too so this helps. I would say i do Electrical 3 days a week and other odds-ends the other 3-4 days. I have been losing some work here and there to other contractors since my mini-ex is still in the shop "2 months" but i am still busy otherwise. I am doing some roof and siding work tomorrow, replacing an electric heater, pressure washing a small deck and replacing some trim in a small bedroom on Saterday. Sunday i have a ceiling fan in a cathedral ceiling to install, installing a remote with it too, if time permits i have 5 bushes/shrubs to install on another job.


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## DetailHandyman (Jul 21, 2008)

21gun said:


> There is a bigger need than ever for a handyman these days with most contractors being too much about the big money to help anyone out with a window screen.


So true. 

Of course, when things slow down, suddenly everyone is a handyman. 




Mike Finley said:


> If you're in a small town doing handyman work you long term success comes from building a tight customer base from repeat business from referrals and word of mouth. Treating every customer like hes your best friend.


Well said. :thumbsup: 
This has been a key to my success.




woodchuck2 said:


> I have been busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.


To address the OP, I've been busier than ever the past few months. Actually thinking about hiring a helper just to keep from getting behind (more than I am).

Might have to hire a second one when all you "handyman" go back to your regular jobs. :whistling


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## Rockhound (Jul 12, 2007)

I've been semi-busy but at prices chopped down so badly I may as well be flipping burgers. There are a few big outfits with illegals doing the work at prices that are incredibly low. I don't see how they even load the materials,maybe they're stealing them. I'm considering walking off the job for the first time in years. I'm hanging a commercial job for residential prices and no answer on high pay for 13ft topouts/firestop. I hate leaving a job incomplete but lousy pay on a poorly planned nightmare with every trade working over one another's heads isn't worth it.

As for working with female HO's: I remain polite and professional and keep picturing my wifes ta-ta's and the last time I can remember her 'having a headache'. I never paid cash for it and am NOT doing a BIT of free work for the illusion of a chance at hitting it. My thoughts are usually:" Nice butt lady,lemme see it going out the door":shifty:


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## DetailHandyman (Jul 21, 2008)

OGStilts said:


> Yeah tough guy...can you smell what the Rock is Cooking


:laughing:


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Rockhound said:


> I've been semi-busy but at prices chopped down so badly I may as well be flipping burgers. There are a few big outfits with illegals doing the work at prices that are incredibly low. I don't see how they even load the materials,maybe they're stealing them. I'm considering walking off the job for the first time in years. I'm hanging a commercial job for residential prices and no answer on high pay for 13ft topouts/firestop. I hate leaving a job incomplete but lousy pay on a poorly planned nightmare with every trade working over one another's heads isn't worth it.


 
i hear ya man... hard to believe it's came to this eh?

A guy used to could work hard and be somewhat proud at the end off the day... harder than ever to feel good about most things/days.... that's why i came to CT to get riled up a bit and some new perspective.

I enjoy a bicker back n forth as long as it's witty and not to blatently hateful. Callin some old fart a hammerhead usually will get the ball rolling...

Good way to make friends you wouldnt have noticed to begin with.... hehehehe.....

I'm no jerk. ya'll will see that eventually. Just trying to be funny and get some attention... that's all. Nice to be the clown sometimes too. I cant act like this any other time.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

quote By Og old fart:




Listen, I don't make light of anyone blatantly ripping another off or the need for us all to care for our families but the question becomes did you learn anything from this experience. You can be pissed off at this guy all you want but if you didn't learn how to prevent this in the future you are bound to repeat this. Someone who is not a hack would of had instruments in place to prevent getting ripped off in the first place and then if he still got ripped of would of had the tools in place to recover his losses or at least make this guys life a little harder. 




Hammerhead Old Fart - Out![/quote]

I had no clue as to what i wanted/needed to do... the prick handed me a check for 500.00 less than we agreed on, said take it or leave it... I took the 2,000 and gave him a mouth full. Had he not had 11 guys there i would have fixed that smart azzed mouth of his. Its history now... but i didnt have a contract or jack on paper, alll verbal, yeah i know dumb... i was fallin for that Good ole boy rep and was gonna go with the flow til i had cause to think otherwise... Then i lost my but. Stupid. he never got a hard time, even suckered me to work for him again. Let me make part of that up to you he says...He took me for a sucker again.... too bad too cause the guy liked my work, he was just a bastard on payday. I suppose there's leins and so on, but i had to keep working to pay the bills. I had no time for court. Eventually he called beggin me to help him finish a job... late and gonns be losing contract, so i tod him to bite me... he called me a dozen times to try and get me to do the finish up... i told him what a prick he was and he swore to pay me my daily minimum to drive there. Like a fool i took him up on it and luckily he did pay me what i wanted. Just when i needed it too. I got lucky. ANy way.... nah... i dont bother with gettin even, court, i got no plan like that.... all i ever hear is how it drug out in court and wasnt worth it. I got no money for a lawyer and all. I just got hosed. That's really all i learned.


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## Rockhound (Jul 12, 2007)

its hard to brush your teeth when you can't stand looking in the mirror. I used to take pride in the fact that I did what I had to do and got jobs done. Worked lots of weekends,holidays....others come in on Monday and look at me like I'm nuts...now I see why. I should have been another hourly milking artist I guess. I"m headed down to the circus this morning with an 80% chance of telling my drywall contact to shove 13 feet of firestop up his golden a$$. I guess life is tough when you get up at 8 AM,work 5 hours a day,take 2 hour lunches,don't work ANY weekends and take 6 vacations a year. I guess he'll have to work 7 hours a day to finish it up himself. On the bright side-for him- he'll get 12 a sheet now to hang in my place instead of just the 5 he skims off me.Too bad finishing is harder than bulling 12 foot firecode up 13 feet over conduit,electricians,plumbers,framers and concrete guys. I too trusted a longtime contact to pay decent prices.


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## Pro Builder (Jul 29, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> labor intensive marketing like door hanger or flyers spread in neighborhoods by yourself. That will get your phone to ring, it always has and always will.


Really? Does it always work? My city requires a permit. I wonder if it is a good idea?


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

we dont have to have a permit here in Cullman, AL but you might need the ability to outrun alot of pitbulls.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Rockhound said:


> Too bad finishing is harder than bulling 12 foot firecode up 13 feet over conduit,electricians,plumbers,framers and concrete guys. I too trusted a longtime contact to pay decent prices.


 Trust? who' that? i dont trust the sun comin up any more. These are scary times to say the least.


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## Pro Builder (Jul 29, 2009)

21gun said:


> we dont have to have a permit here in Cullman, AL but you might need the ability to outrun alot of pitbulls.


Is it worth the running? I'm talking dollars, here. I'llclimb mount everest to get a lead right now.


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

21gun said:


> If any one cares to share, and to narrow this topic.... I
> 
> Bacically, what facet of the trades have you seen stay constant and bring in (decent) or even good money? Given the economy. Where are folks still spending money? Have to's and stuff like waterheaters im sure, but where should i direct my efforts to get back to keeping busy? .


Right now the commercial construction is still OK for smaller companies like me. I'm busy through sep, have a contract for Nov, but then nothing guaranteed after that.

We've been lucky, even in slow weeks, we've picked up some unexpected work for three-four days or a week. Mainly due to my wife's ability to network. She's very gregarious and has a lot of corporate sales experience which translates well with making contacts in commercial construction. She goes to some of the free classes and lectures sponsored by bigger GCs and that usually ends up with a few contacts and a potential job.

So we've been working about two-three weeks out of every four since April.

Winter will slow down, and I'll probably have to go back to doing laminate flooring unless I get another big kitchen remodel. We'll try to suppliment with residential stuff until we get more commercial contracts.

And, of course, I have to ever expand my travel area since big jobs are scarce and it is mostly a lot of smaller jobs - again to my benefit since most other longer established competitors have much higher overhead and dinky four-five day jobs won't sustain them.


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## CA Contractor (Nov 29, 2007)

Hey 21gun, I'd work on losing the attitude toward GC's. Sure it's like any business you'll find some jerks but most are hard working & just trying to get by. Try hooking up w/some. I know when we get asked about doing the smaller 'handyman stuff' we pass those jobs on to others who do that. We actually lucked out & got a couple good remodels so are getting busy again. Also hope you don't have that little phrase, 'don't get nailed by just any carpenter' on your truck -- not a good way to advertise to some. Good luck.


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## BHR (Jan 7, 2009)

it's been a good year for me so far.

Just finished a fairly large outdoor project and now doing a complete interior remodel. Then a couple small commericial jobs and another remodel.

Next year is seriously in question since our province is moving to a harmonized sales tax with the feds. Clients will have to pay another 8% on top of the federal tax. It's going to be painful IMHO


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

BHR said:


> it's been a good year for me so far.
> 
> Just finished a fairly large outdoor project and now doing a complete interior remodel. Then a couple small commericial jobs and another remodel.
> 
> Next year is seriously in question since our province is moving to a harmonized sales tax with the feds. Clients will have to pay another 8% on top of the federal tax. It's going to be painful IMHO


Oh ok, I thought Ontario already hae this HST. Out here in BC we just heard that we are going to go that way too, next July 1st. Add 7% to absolutely everything now- food, kids clothes, labour, etc. We just had an election a few months back, and when asked our premier said that's not a good way to go. So now they are in power (for 4 years till next election) they suddenly spring this on us.
I've not seen people so mad for years! a huge riot uh... Rally, ya - planned for next month in our two largest cities.
I was thinkin bout getting a pickup truck next spring, but now I dunno- folks in the know tell me that business will crash after this tax comes in.

And In Ontario at least you get a bribe! $1000 to each person? something like that- our here they say its "revenue neutral" (the latest buzz phrase) so we get diddly squat! they're saying that it won't cost us any more cause the manufacturer's get this back on raw materials, so they will pass on the savings LOLOL ... ya that's gonna happen.

At least right now, I'm getting 2 to 4 calls a day, so things are looking up for me. Real estate in my city (Vancouver and area) is booming, huge sales figures, price wars happening.


Laurie

www.lauriescustomfinishing.ca


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## BHR (Jan 7, 2009)

our tax will be 8% starting next July. There is no 1000$ it's revenue neutral - so far. I am already planing for change for when this time comes

Personally I would wait on the truck - if the market bottoms out then trucks will have incentives for them to sell.

Speaking of - I went looking at trucks again with the wife on the weekend...I was floored at the GM dealership. Nice 09s z71 4x4 well equipped for less than 30k - lots of them too. We had 2 dealers shut down in GMs foray so likely they are trying to clean up the inventory. I just wish I was ready for it...got a year left on my lease


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

We do custom renovations, and are swamped right now. Seems every job, the customer adds more work. Running about 4 wks behind with no chance to catch up. Working 12 hr days, 6 day weeks. Not complaining, just giving info on the market place.

Seems those with some money, or their field is not affected by the recession, are spending as usual. I even put our rates up this year and no one batted an eye.

Curently booked till November, and have to start a 6 month job in March. Hope to get a month off to recuperate. 

OH, and I wish I had a qualified handyman to give the small stuff too.:thumbsup:


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## DRC (Dec 4, 2008)

I have work everyday. Not as much as I use to have and the jobs are smaller but the bills are paid and the belly is full.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

is it me or has someone been having a conversation with himself for the past few pages?


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## Pro Builder (Jul 29, 2009)

katoman said:


> We do custom renovations, and are swamped right now. Seems every job, the customer adds more work. Running about 4 wks behind with no chance to catch up. Working 12 hr days, 6 day weeks. Not complaining, just giving info on the market place.
> 
> Seems those with some money, or their field is not affected by the recession, are spending as usual. I even put our rates up this year and no one batted an eye.
> 
> ...


What are you doing for advertising?


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

CA Contractor said:


> Hey 21gun, *I'd work on losing the attitude toward GC's.* Sure it's like any business you'll find some jerks but most are hard working & just trying to get by. Try hooking up w/some. I know when we get asked about doing the smaller 'handyman stuff' we pass those jobs on to others who do that. We actually lucked out & got a couple good remodels so are getting busy again. *Also hope you don't have that little phrase, 'don't get nailed by just any carpenter' on your truck* -- not a good way to advertise to some. Good luck.


 
I have little use for most of the GC's i know currently... a few yes, are hard working and reliable, honest... etc, but too many are fat headed and holier than tho, condescending... you know what i mean. I love to pick at GC's. I think some of them should be back working in the trenches. They have been self appointed and some have a lot to learn about service.

I like to make money, not excuses... i want to be a GC so bad... but dont have the capitol to do so anymore. Nothing personal... it's just something for me to pick at cause i dont know enough about politics.

My catch phrase.... welll, no, it's not on my truck. Neither is my number. But, i must confess, its on my letterhead. I think there's truth to it...i think there's a lot of guys out there trying to get over on the customer... and it's my way of saying... i'm not one of them.... how people take it.... i cant say.... but the ones that recieve a bid on my letter head give me the job nine times out of ten.

My other up and coming idea for marketing is even more over the top than that little line...


A small pocket screw driver.... three sided handle for lettering... One side with Co. name and number, second side with (*Call us or "Screw" it up your self*) and the third side im not sure yet, but want a line something like.. encouraging the wife to call us before the old man really makes a mess of things.

My point... i dont really want to work for someone that doesn't have a scense of hurmor. Right now that's not such a good point... but i work for the middle class, lower income Poor folk like me.... I'm a good ole boy that just believes in doing a good job and being honest.... if i say a few stupid things, then i look silly i guess, but my work, anything but silly. right now we have no advertising, none... word of mouth only. barely getting along, but getting along none the less. By the quality of my work and my reputation as a qualified craftsman. My personality doesn't get me jobs, tho i am friendly and courteous and honest.... it's all my quality. Not my poor sense of a good one liner catch phrase. 

But do you really think i should change it? Is it stupid? Here's my letter head... tell me what you think.

_“If a man’s work can be measured by the man that he is,_
_May also that man be measured by the work that he loves._
_And if you can tell a lot about a man by his hands,_
_I suppose mine would say I have been proud to work hard.”_

 (Owner) Michael Cass Baron
 2734 County Road 831
 Logan, AL 35098
(256) 590-5717


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

couldnt get my logo to load... something to look at any way...


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

these i made for some customers... about 250.00 each
ambrosia maple and tiger maple








This was my first roof when i started my roofing biz back in 2001








this was a nice house/ mother in laws guest addition we did lock n key back in 2004. The GC on this job was a really good guy/carpenter/boss. I was 2nd in command on this job, first in command if you count experience and tools and showing up.... We were subcontracted by this GC to frame it... but ended up doing all the carpentry, siding, but not the roof.... this little deck was an architects way of making life hell for me... the hand rail post were not to touch the outter band, rather be shimmed out with galv pipe and washers a couple inches ( had to use 12 inch bolts to reach thru all the lumber)as to let rain pass freely with out holding moisture/rot between the post and outter band... can u imagine setting posts on the miters to get the handrails to miter out correctly? Was all red wood and cedar, each board and spindle planed individually and hand sanded.... and the kicker... it was all built on top of a rubber (epdm) sloped roof. (half octagon. Took 7 days to finish... builder/GC was wondering why it took so long.... until he came out to see it.... then he cussed the architect for 3 hours on the phone.... was all in the plans from the beginning i told him(GC).... he was soooooooooo pissed at the post detail.... he fussed for weeks about the cost of doing that little deck. Any how.... all hideen fasteners. no nails showing, counter sunk and attatched the top hand rail from underneath. Real beauty of a deck, over designed as it were.... beautiful.


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

BHR said:


> our tax will be 8% starting next July. There is no 1000$ it's revenue neutral - so far. I am already planing for change for when this time comes
> 
> Personally I would wait on the truck - if the market bottoms out then trucks will have incentives for them to sell.
> 
> Speaking of - I went looking at trucks again with the wife on the weekend...I was floored at the GM dealership. Nice 09s z71 4x4 well equipped for less than 30k - lots of them too. We had 2 dealers shut down in GMs foray so likely they are trying to clean up the inventory. I just wish I was ready for it...got a year left on my lease


ok, our prov. tax is at 7% right now, so our GST is at 5% - this is why it will be 12% next July. The prov. tax in Ontario might be lower.
A large GM dealership near to me is closing down in three weeks, they've been there for 25 years! wow. Some great deals as they are discounting like crazy. Wrong time! and I am partial to the ford F150 - it just looks so cool!!!

Laurie.

www.lauriescustomfinishing.ca


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Crap!!! is OSHA gonna see that i'm not wearing safety glasses? or a shirt?

What's the fine for being too sexy on a job site?

C'mon all u haters.... lets hear it


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## Pro Builder (Jul 29, 2009)

21gun said:


> Crap!!! is OSHA gonna see that i'm not wearing safety glasses? or a shirt?
> 
> What's the fine for being too sexy on a job site?
> 
> C'mon all u haters.... lets hear it


Would have been really funny if an obese socialist called you on it. Since you are jumping the gun on something that probably wasn't even on anyone's mind...I think your a liiiiiiiiiiil bit self absorbed.

Don't get nailed by just any non-existing post.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

:thumbsup:nice looking work Mike


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Thats a good looking porch swing:thumbsup:

On the other hand I'm assuming your one of thoes guys who on any day about 20 centegrade you just happed to loose your shirt?...I think its a form of compensation...but on the other hand if I removed my shirt on the job I'd scare childern...think Chewbaca meets Jabba the Hut.


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## Rockhound (Jul 12, 2007)

21gun said:


> Trust? who' that? i dont trust the sun comin up any more. These are scary times to say the least.


 

I can't believe that word came out of my mouth either. I've been hanging for this finisher for about 15 years and should have known better even so. Well I did the professional thing and finished out the job. I got a bank breaking $125 for the extra work...funny since it's a bank I was hanging. I think I'll look up the A-hole inspector, who made the GC run drywall up to the plate instead of just past drop ceiling height, and inform him of the 25 foot high,40 foot long bulkhead they framed ,after he passed the framing inspection, which is made of light guage metal with no anchor rods or reinforcement of any kind. This bulkhead is now hung with 5/8" firecode and will loom over the heads of tellers and customers.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Pro Builder said:


> Would have been really funny if an obese socialist called you on it. Since you are jumping the gun on something that probably wasn't even on anyone's mind...I think your a liiiiiiiiiiil bit self absorbed.
> 
> Don't get nailed by just any non-existing post.


 
Well, if it weren't for my fabulous muscletone, rock hard abs, rhino like strength, coppertone tan, etc... i'd just be a bald headed, ruined back, scared faced, weather beaten, arthritic old man. I turn heads from across the street, but turn stomach at closer radiuses... HA! I'm just an ugly old man that has kept in shape workin hard really.... Not the first bit vain actually, just threw that in for conversation sake,......But thanks for bringin me back to reality.:laughing:


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Thats a good looking porch swing:thumbsup:
> 
> On the other hand I'm assuming your one of thoes guys who on any day about 20 centegrade you just happed to loose your shirt?...
> 
> ...


Now that's funny!!!
So are you tall and wrinkely or do you just have a speech impediment?


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## mmike032 (May 30, 2007)

21gun said:


> View attachment 22122
> 
> these i made for some customers... about 250.00 each
> ambrosia maple and tiger maple
> ...


 nice work:thumbsup:
$250 for the swing? labor only I assume.
I had a lady wanting my to build her some adrinondak chairs not long ago.
She says HD sells them for about $100 a piece, ya think you could build them cheaper:w00t: nope, maybe double but probally triple what HD charges.
didnt get the job:shifty:


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

mmike032 said:


> nice work:thumbsup:
> $250 for the swing? labor only I assume.
> I had a lady wanting my to build her some adrinondak chairs not long ago.
> She says HD sells them for about $100 a piece, ya think you could build them cheaper:w00t: nope, maybe double but probally triple what HD charges.
> didnt get the job:shifty:


Thanks man... but actually no, labor and materials 250 - 300... with about 12-15 hours in each one i made less than 100 on labor. But again... these weren't to make a living... more just to start a buzz about my custom stuff.... you know. If i had to charge what they were worth time and material... id never sell a single one. For 60-70 bucks you can go to a local hardware store and get a splintered up, un sanded ricketty swing and put wind in your hair just the same but with no style. 

These swings are all top notch. 5 i've built i think. Family got some. Each board was ripped out of rough lumber, planed to thickness, drum sanded with 150 grit, egde sanded to remove all saw marks, all radiuses done by hand, no sharp edges, mostly pocket screwd with a kreg kit, glued joints, coped back slats to fit seat contour perfectly, and the best chain i could buy. Not to mention the bolts and all are stainless. Heirloom quality, not to toot my own horn at all, but to show... you cant make money making little stuff anymore. I just enjoy seeing my stuff out there. Getting people talking helps promote the custom stuff, and who knows.... some day they might be on antiques roadshow and be worth something close to what i made them for.... doubt it.

But thanks, glad ya'll like em. Their one of my favorites. I'll try to post a couple more pics of other stuff.

To get what i think i'm worth i'd have to charge 150 for material, and about 350 for labor. and they come unfinished,,, raw as bacon in the meat dept.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Alabama snowman took every bit of snow in the yard!!!!!!!!! ( only got about 2 inches that year.... melted away before we got the snowman done...)








Illinois snow man.... that dude lasted into april that year....had to beat it down with an axe because i was worried it'd fall over on the school kids using the sidewalk.







I made this too, probally my finest work...Only took me abot 3 minutes.... (that's what she said) but the wife subcontracted the remainder of the project.... took her almost nine months to finish that job....in the end we had to hire the hospital to finalize the last few details for us... They have some really cool tools by the way....

His name is Cass Alexander. The only thing that keeps me in the business.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

21gun said:


> Thanks man... but actually no, labor and materials 250 - 300... with about 12-15 hours in each one i made less than 100 on labor. But again... these weren't to make a living... more just to start a buzz about my custom stuff.... you know. If i had to charge what they were worth time and material... id never sell a single one. For 60-70 bucks you can go to a local hardware store and get a splintered up, un sanded ricketty swing and put wind in your hair just the same but with no style.
> 
> These swings are all top notch. 5 i've built i think. Family got some. Each board was ripped out of rough lumber, planed to thickness, drum sanded with 150 grit, egde sanded to remove all saw marks, all radiuses done by hand, no sharp edges, mostly pocket screwd with a kreg kit, glued joints, coped back slats to fit seat contour perfectly, and the best chain i could buy. Not to mention the bolts and all are stainless. Heirloom quality, not to toot my own horn at all, but to show... you cant make money making little stuff anymore. I just enjoy seeing my stuff out there. Getting people talking helps promote the custom stuff, and who knows.... some day they might be on antiques roadshow and be worth something close to what i made them for.... doubt it.
> 
> ...


That is a CRAZZZY cheap price for those sweet benches, however if you are looking at them as a form of advertising, and you think enough people will see them to promote you, AOK THEN. G


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Tigermaple picture frames for family christmas presents (Like 10) i made that year for gifts... Fits 5x7 pics.








A deck i did years back.... decking on 45 degree, split level, custom railing I call it flat pickett... (deck boards ripped in half, rerout the cut edge and sanded, dadoed stringers for treads to go in(what a pain... but pretty nice looking.) Sanded all edges and saw marks and routed all edges that were cut at end grain on 45'ed decking. Sweet lil job for the photo album i thought.







This is a soffit and fascia job.... 5 foot overhangs, aluminum soffit, custom bent fascia, window wrap on big slanted windows, post channel at ceilings custom bent, this job had more angles than a Kamsutra picture book.(The GC said they would never hang gutters cause they wanted to show the rafter butt cut style of design... i said... BULLSHEETS.... they ended up covering all my nice bending work with gutters eventually....Oh well. There's over a thousand pounds of aluminum on that house.........27,000.00 labor and material (had to rip out roofers gutter apron and bend new to fit the fascia angle... try to find detail pic....


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## mmike032 (May 30, 2007)

why not charge what your worth....
and attract clintele that can afford to pay what your worth.
but I understand about getting your name/work seen, you just have to be careful or your name going to be associated as the cheap guy that does good work. and than how you gonna raise prices once your the"cheap guy"
I'm in the same boat, this is only my 3rd yr on my own and been making a name for myself thus far. I'm just not going to work for $10 an hr producing top notch work and sell myself and business short.
I charge what my time/work is worth and lose alot of jobs cause of it but the ones I land are well worth it.
Hell, I'm sitting at home now cause another trim sub beat my qoute by 2K on a big trim job just to give his guys something to do. GC asked if I wanted to compete with his price and I said, "Hell no"

I could work for someone else for peanuts and not have the headaches on top of it.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

There were like 40 can lights in the soffit... 







This job i was real proud of.








Cant even see the joint in the fascia...even had a brakebuddy back then, put a rib thru the center of the fascia, it was perfect... until the electrican banged the fascia in the front above the garage door a week after we finished... i had to come back and fix that... looked terrible... but we got it to match again perfectly. The GC flipped me 200 bucks even tho i wouldnt have charged him. I made good on that job i told him... he was just happy i was able to do it so fast he said. great guy.

I dont have a brake any more... lost it... long story, different thread... but i feel like i lost a testicle... always wishing i could get another one... had all the acc's, cutter, side winder, brake buddy, just not a stand with wheels. Even had hand seamers for the little stuff.... used to be a pro anyhow...


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

mmike032 said:


> why not charge what your worth....
> and attract clintele that can afford to pay what your worth.
> but I understand about getting your name/work seen, you just have to be careful or your name going to be associated as the cheap guy that does good work. and than how you gonna raise prices once your the"cheap guy"
> I'm in the same boat, this is only my 3rd yr on my own and been making a name for myself thus far. I'm just not going to work for $10 an hr producing top notch work and sell myself and business short.
> ...


 

Amen Bro... i could go to work for someone else in a minute.

It's hard to make money with the little stuff. I need wealthier folks to work for.... but rich folk intimidate me. I'm just a poor ole country boy, and it shows in my personality. Plus, i have lost alot of my equipment on a bad business decision before i moved to Cullman from Illinois... i put it up as collateral on a private truck loan to haul "Hot shot freight"... the co. i leased on with drove me broke and i lost everything and had to start over in a new town with no reputation, plus.... i was the new guy from up north.... hard sell in a small country town... But we're gettin there. I think....???....Maybe? Atleast my rep is good.... always.... but takes time to get to know enough people to show you're here to stay..... always helps being able to say yeah... i know so-n-so.... worked for their brother on his house... then the ball gets rollin... until then... around here.... you're just a new guy... no chances waiting in line for ya... You gotta know some people...


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

Go pac go!!!!!!


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## mmike032 (May 30, 2007)

21gun said:


> Amen Bro... i could go to work for someone else in a minute.
> 
> It's hard to make money with the little stuff. I need wealthier folks to work for.... but rich folk intimidate me. I'm just a poor ole country boy, and it shows in my personality. Plus, i have lost alot of my equipment on a bad business decision before i moved to Cullman from Illinois... i put it up as collateral on a private truck loan to haul "Hot shot freight"... the co. i leased on with drove me broke and i lost everything and had to start over in a new town with no reputation, plus.... i was the new guy from up north.... hard sell in a small country town... But we're gettin there. I think....???....Maybe? Atleast my rep is good.... always.... but takes time to get to know enough people to show you're here to stay..... always helps being able to say yeah... i know so-n-so.... worked for their brother on his house... then the ball gets rollin... until then... around here.... you're just a new guy... no chances waiting in line for ya... You gotta know some people...


Its the same deal here in South GA. Its called it the "good ole boy system"
I've been here all my life though and know most all the builders in the area from working for about 10yrs for another trim sub here that is well known. 
I try not to step on his toes now that I'm on my own. I have great respect for him and I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for him.

So I'm the new guy and know how it is. All the good GCs are loyal to their subs and I get to wade through all the other GCs. Occasionaly landing a good one cause my old boss recommended me when he couldnt get to it.

just ridin the wave at the moment but have got caught in a stagant cess pool.:w00t:


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

The good guys should have a button on their cap that says, "HEY USE ME, I'M REALLY GOOD"... but a recommendation fits the bil even better... I wish i could hook up with a guy that appreciates me and wants to pay me well enough to stick around.... until then, make room in the cess pool for me too:w00t::laughing:..... It stinks, but eventually some of the old crap will break apart and us new terds will still be afloat... i hope.... what a nasty analogy.... but good, eh?


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