# South Florida Soils



## 2concept (May 24, 2010)

South Florida soils run the spectrum from lime rock, to sand, marl, and muck with sand marl and muck being predominant. 
For want of load bearing capacity, sand marl and muck is the less desirable of soil types for use as building sites in south Florida.
Even so, early pioneer builders in south Florida found an abundance of high, dry and buildable land, namely lime rock 
(usually found in pine islands). As time went by and development intensified, desirable building sites became scarce while 
demand was on the rise. Urban development pushed westward into marl and muck. This required an expensive site development process 
sometimes called “demucking.” Demucking consists of removing the existing soil type(s) down to an acceptable load bearing strata 
which are, on occasion, only found at or below sea level. In many cases this operation requires an additional process called 
“dewatering”.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

What's the question?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I like this...... Can I do one?

"Foundations are the structural undergirding of a house."

(This is fun.) 

How about another?

"Homes should be built to keep insects and rodents out."

I'm gettin' gooder at this. :clap:

_Maybe he thought he was starting a blog?_


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

2concept said:


> South Florida soils run the spectrum from lime rock, to sand, marl, and muck with sand marl and muck being predominant.
> For want of load bearing capacity, sand marl and muck is the less desirable of soil types for use as building sites in south Florida.
> Even so, early pioneer builders in south Florida found an abundance of high, dry and buildable land, namely lime rock
> (usually found in pine islands). As time went by and development intensified, desirable building sites became scarce while
> ...


I'm working on a job in NJ right now where we're "demucking" and "dewatering." So far we've hauled out a few thousand truck loads, and hauled the same amount of structural fill in. We might be at the halfway point. It's not the first one and I doubt it'll be the last, either.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

2concept said:


> South Florida soils run the spectrum from lime rock, to sand, marl, and muck with sand marl and muck being predominant.
> For want of load bearing capacity, sand marl and muck is the less desirable of soil types for use as building sites in south Florida.
> Even so, early pioneer builders in south Florida found an abundance of high, dry and buildable land, namely lime rock
> (usually found in pine islands). As time went by and development intensified, desirable building sites became scarce while
> ...


 
Or you could just drill 24" holes to bedrock rebar and fill. Cald post cap construction. commonly used in southern Florida and Keys 

What is your point?


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Auger Cast Piles are typical down in the Keys.


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

2concept said:


> South Florida soils run the spectrum from lime rock, to sand, marl, and muck with sand marl and muck being predominant.
> For want of load bearing capacity, sand marl and muck is the less desirable of soil types for use as building sites in south Florida.
> Even so, early pioneer builders in south Florida found an abundance of high, dry and buildable land, namely lime rock
> (usually found in pine islands). As time went by and development intensified, desirable building sites became scarce while
> ...


 
Who said you need buildable land down here?


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## 2concept (May 24, 2010)

Well so far I've been told to:

Use auger cast pilings as done in the Florida Keys, and been told I don't need bearing soils with a picture of one of the off shore structures once located in the shallows of Biscayne Bay. 

First auger cast piles won't work in muck and marl guys. Second nice picture but do see all of those wood creosote piles driven to refusal? What do you think they are resting on?

One other guy asks, what's the point. Sir no point at all just an article from a State of Florida certified general contractor with 40 years of building experience in many different areas of South Florida. Not to mention one born and raised here whose family tree......believe it or not goes back to the 1700s to the first settlement in North America which was St. Augustine Florida. NOT MEANT TO TOOT MY OWN HORN JUST A STATEMENT OF FACT


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## MAULEMALL (May 16, 2010)

:whistling


2concept said:


> Well so far I've been told to:
> 
> Use auger cast pilings as done in the Florida Keys, and been told I don't need bearing soils with a picture of one of the off shore structures once located in the shallows of Biscayne Bay.
> 
> ...


:whistling


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

And this misquoted American history has what to do with the modern process of demucking?

(Boy, you censors are hard on a guy. :notworthy ) Is it acceptable wrtten this way?


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## 2concept (May 24, 2010)

sorry thought I did that. thanks for the advice.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

2concept said:


> sorry thought I did that. thanks for the advice.


 
Lots of folks are 2nd 3rd and 4th gen contractors. What are you looking for? You can do pile construction in muck soil to a point. I have in the past for comercial and residental projects. If that is what your are looking for look in to slurry drilling/ with over sized caseon (sp). The de watering is not an issue drill to bed rock pluss 3 to 5 ' and fill. The water will a: come out and b: the slurry holds most back.


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

2concept said:


> Well so far I've been told to:
> 
> Use auger cast pilings as done in the Florida Keys, and been told I don't need bearing soils with a picture of one of the off shore structures once located in the shallows of Biscayne Bay.
> 
> ...


One of the reasons people are questioning you is that this isn't a newspaper or a blog where you just ramble on.:huh: Most people start a thread asking a question to get other people's advice or thoughts so they can have a different perspective than the one they are thinking. Another reason people start a thread is to bring up a topic for discussion among the members of this forum. Some just like to stir up trouble. Your thread doesn't do any of these so the members are just wondering why you started this thread? So why did you start this thread? :surrender:Were you looking for advice, trying to have a discussion about soil conditions in Florida, or just wasting time?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I like cheese puffs, but in Central Texas they are only shipped in on Tuesdays, so if you want fresh ones, hit the stores Wednesday morning.


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## DBBII (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm not sure bedrock is maybe the right term for Florida. 

Piles are mostly friction. Monotube works great, unless you are worried about vibration. Augercast is OK, but is highly dependent on the skill of the operator. There's usually a limit to the length you can do augercast, and it's a problem if you have a layer of "bad" soil to get thru.

Piles have there limitations. Attached (assuming it works) is what happens when your test borings aren't deep enough.

http://www2.tbo.com/exposure/ar/385/255/2009/07/13/6596_071309crosstown.jpg


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

To my knowledge you will not hit bedrock, i.e. continental crust, in normal construction in 90% of Florida. Limestone, sand and marl.


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

@2concept:

Hey lighten up a little bit! I'm not disputing anyone's assessment of the geological profile of South Florida, as that's not my area of expertise. However, I thought that we could all enjoy the beauty of one of the few remaining Stiltsville structures in Biscayne Bay (before the oil shows up) while at the same time providing a limited illustration of construction techniques using pilings where water is involved in South Florida. Geez! Loosen your jorts and chill out, brah! What was the question? Cheetos? What?


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

DBBII said:


> I'm not sure bedrock is maybe the right term for Florida.
> 
> Piles are mostly friction. Monotube works great, unless you are worried about vibration. Augercast is OK, but is highly dependent on the skill of the operator. There's usually a limit to the length you can do augercast, and it's a problem if you have a layer of "bad" soil to get thru.
> 
> ...


 Yes you are correct. I used bed rock as a general statement. You do if you bore dep enough in most area's hit a hard base. Coral familly down southern Fl. Correct again with regaurds to the pile friction but that isn't the method I was talking about but is used/could beused in that application. The bad soil issue can be overcome with a slurry bore up to 30'. I have never had to drill in southern Fl more then 20 give or take a few feet.


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