# pipe fittings



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i for the life of me cannot understand why engineers are still specing 60 yr. old technology. why in the world do they expect us to still spin bolts on mechanical joints? there are many joint restraint systems available, so that's not an issue.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

my experience with push-on fttings is minimal and goes back about 10 years. at the time, i didn't like the need to bevel DIP in order to make up fittings. What's your experience with fittings other than MJ


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

pipeguy, yeah, with ductile it is a pain in the rump. BUT, 90% of what we put in here is either class 200 IPS or c-900. most of the time the only time they're requiring the ductile is on a fire loop under the foundation, and the riser. most of our sewer plant site piping is ductile. but overall, the lion's share of it is pvc. we put in 16 miles of 2-12" pvc class 200 rural water several years back. all push on fittings, valves and all, had literally NO problems


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

No problems huh? I just picked up a federal job that's mostly 8" C900 and maybe push-on fittings are the way to go huh? How is it homing the pipe into bends - clumsy or pretty easy?


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

pipeguy, whether it be m.j., or push on, we prefab all of our stuff on top whenever possible and tug the joint's together with a strap around the pipe, not the fitting. it's never presented a problem


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey day....I think your right, although I haven't seen any "push" fittings like you are talking about. But ya know, it kind of like the attitude since mega-lugs have come out. Mega-lugs are suppose to alieviate the need to pour kickers and thrust-blocks.....but ahhh.....as far as I know....we still pour em, and the state still requires emmm!!!!! It's like they aren't paying attention at all.....They don't want an easier way! The only significant thing to come along in my experience is engineers veering away from ductile and going to pvc. I really don't mind all the wrenching our Dewalt corless impact lasts half a day or so and will snap the snap lugs. It's not that bad if you don't have to tighten everything like back in the day.....With just a bone wrench.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

TMatt142 said:


> Mega-lugs are suppose to alieviate the need to pour kickers and thrust-blocks.....but ahhh.....as far as I know....we still pour em, and the state still requires emmm!!!!!


give me an example of how you're using wedge action retainer glands in conjunction with thrust blocks. that seems redundant at best.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i would be very reluctant to put on either an m.j. fitting, OR a push on fitting, and not thrust block it. you might have a situation that you only have 3' of pipe between your fitting and the last joint. unless that particular joint is restrained, i would fear there would not be enough compacted material to hold that joint together. megalugs are a wonderful product, but i still think there are situations where thrust blocking has it's place.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

speaking of dewalts...we use them also....PLUS we put a torque wrench to every bolt


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

all 45's, 22's, 11's, 90's, and tees we put or pour thrust blocks, and of course behind a hydrant. Mega-lugs will hold, I just think it should be one or the other unless of course like was said....there is a joint that is close to the location. In my experience, it's best that the closest slip joint be rodded to the valve or M.J. I've worked with plumbers who, in the heat of the moment, forget slip joints and have had them blow out a few times. When all else fails.... rod it!


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Am I old? We used to tie back with cable and turnbuckles. We often used a large rock as a thrust block on water systems. Wastewater was always poured even though the pressure was lower.


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## Gmads (May 18, 2006)

Everybody around here specs mega-lugs and thrust blocks. Like others have said it isn't a big deal, esp. w/impact wrenches. Testing at 200 psi, I've rarely/never seen a mega-lug fail, but I've seen plenty of joints blown apart from lack of proper thrust blocking.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

here's a situation where mega-lugs caused us grief. several years ago, we installed 3500' of 12" c-900 fire loop with 12 fire hydrants at a new ethanol plant. we installed the main in july with temps in the high 90's....the pipe was hot, the gaskets hot. all bolts were properly torqued, mega-lugs installed. the line was not energized until the next march. virtually EVERY 12" joint leaked. the engineers determined that the gaskets were expanded when installed because of the warm temps, and when installed in the cool ground and not having any water pressure applied to them for 6 months, they "relaxed", or shrank enough to leak. of course the mega-lugs prevented the torque on the bolts from pulling the gasket in and keeping it sealed.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

dayexco said:


> here's a situation where mega-lugs caused us grief....virtually EVERY 12" joint leaked.


who covered the tab on that party?


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

Up in MN we always used our 2x3 CB base slabs as our kickers. Worked out well, just order a few extra! Of course...thats when a HUGE company was picking up the tab. Nowadays we wait till other contractors are pouring footings and see if we can bum leftovers off of them!!! The wonderful world of contracting...feast or famine!


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

we keep very good daily logs. the manufacturer paid us for 1/2 of our normal operating expense of which i was extremely happy to get. i spose we could have gotten into a legal battle, made some atty's wealthier. this way i was able to retrieve some of my costs out of the deal. had it gone to jury trial, it's a coin toss. i'd rather not had it happen at all, but it did. just one of the burps of being in biz


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

must be a lot of money in MN to spend it on drop inlet base slabs for blocking. we don't have that luxury in south dakota.  we use either precast landscape block on a onesie, twosie fitting scenario, call for ready mix on a multi fitting deal.


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

yes, but day....Up in MN we didn't thrust block everything either. Hydrants never got thrust blocks. We used A LOT of threaded rod up there. Your right though, we did use masonry blocks a lot for our bends. I know my last job up there we had 3500 feet of 12" pvc WM and all I put kickers on were the two leads across the road that we stubbed for future use.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

TMatt142 said:


> ...we always used our 2x3 CB base slabs as our kickers....Nowadays we wait till other contractors are pouring footings and see if we can bum leftovers off of them





dayexco said:


> ...we use either precast landscape block on a onesie, twosie fitting scenario, call for ready mix on a multi fitting deal.


Holy chit! That'd get you drawn and quartered around here. If someone saw that being done it'd probably be the last job you did. Don't you guys have concrete mix designs? standard details for blockings? Inspectors?

BTW Matt, bumming materials to make budgets work or otherwise broaden profit margins isn't a good 'plan'. If you have to regularly do that someone needs to look at the estimating department or otherwise reconsider the long term outlook for your industry.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

trust me, my employees nor myself have the "it'll do" attitude when it comes to job material, or their application. everything that we do/implement/use on our jobsites come from being taught by my father, or my own 35+ yrs. in the underground business. our finished product, and components of, will always meet or exceed what is required by the design engineer, and the authority that has regulatory jurisdiction of the installed utility. yes, we have inspectors, and our materials and workmanship are thoroughly tested. locally, precast thrust blocking is very much accepted, as long as it is 1.5 x the height and width of the fitting being blocked. and that they are wedged in tightly between the fitting and the back that it will be bearing on. mix design? when we pour in place, we always ask for a 4000 psi 2" slump, i want it stiff so it sets quickly. water is nothing but a weak point in concrete, or so i'm told by my brother who is a civil "P.E." his specialty is concrete structures and soils. since my father started in 47, my family has installed literally hundreds or miles of water, sanitary/storm sewer in this area. other than the scenario with the ethanol plant in the above post, we don't have callbacks on our work.


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