# Using peoples tools.



## B575JH (Aug 11, 2013)

Thursday and half of Friday I used another guys dewalt angle grinder to cut some concrete blocks. We are remodelling a three season indoor pool's exterior wall taking out six windows an replacing them with two 16' roll up doors. Something similar to what you might see for a restaurant patio. The blocks had been filled with non shrink grout. Thursday went well but on Friday the grinder began to chatter and spit dust. I stopped using it. When the owner (GC) returned I brought it to his attention at which point he turned it on whacked it a few times to knock the dust out and told me its a pig and to keep going. Ten minutes later it was hotter then a baked potato and smelled like a toaster full of plastic cutlery. I stopped using it. My boss then picked it up and ran it until it caught fire. Tools die I get that but what is the protocol when someone else's tool croaks in your hands?


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## Wood O-K (Jun 26, 2013)

sounds like the bosses problem


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Bury it with full trade honors.

Andy.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

DeWalt angle grinders are what, 50 to 100 bucks? 

I consider them throw away, especially if you are doing anything that creates boatloads of dust, like cutting block.

Buy the dude a new grinder.

And next time use your own. :thumbup:


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## FlyFishRI (Aug 17, 2013)

Sounds like that was at the end of its life to begin with. My brand new dewalt slider was used by someone without my permission, they didn't tighten the bevel when they were done so when I went to pick the saw up, it slammed to the side and put a nice gouge in the aluminum in the back and somehow put a nick is the plastic insert. I shrugged it off at first although I was irritated but a week later is when I noticed the gouge and nick and really got upset about it. To the point that every time I look at it I consider exchanging it. I only used it twice before this happened and I didn't even get to put the first scratch on it. My OCD is killing me.


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## Lion Hunter (Apr 5, 2012)

unless you are reckless i dont think you owe them anything. maybe a coffee


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I'd offer to buy him a new one. Any respectable man would refuse it.


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## Wood O-K (Jun 26, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> I'd offer to buy him a new one. Any respectable man would refuse it.


And if he has no respect


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Wood O-K said:


> And if he has no respect


Then buy him a new one. As previously stated, they are 50 to 100 bucks.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

This is why I don't borrow or loan tools.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

TxElectrician said:


> This is why I don't borrow or loan tools.


I have done it with a couple of contractor friends on many occasions. I don't own a Partner saw and a brake, and they don't own a generator and pump jacks.
Never with small tools that I could actually buy cheaply. With my employees, the deal is that if thy use their power tools on my jobs, I will repair or replace them if they get damaged.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

jlsconstruction said:


> I'd offer to buy him a new one. Any respectable man would refuse it.


True enough, but I would make the offer with every intent of making good on it. I very rarely borrow tools, but when I do so, I treat it like it was mine--and that includes replacing it if it breaks. :thumbsup:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Wood O-K said:


> And if he has no respect


I'd open up my trailer and let him pick one, but I wouldn't be using his in the first place now would I. If something breaks like that it's because of a life of abuse. Now if you dropped it off a roof and broke it tht would be a different story. 

The only time I've ever broke anyone else's tool ( 18ga finish nailer) I asked him if he wanted a new one. He ended up getting it repaired for 30 bucks so I just paid for it.


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## Wood O-K (Jun 26, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> I'd open up my trailer and let him pick one, but I wouldn't be using his in the first place now would I. If something breaks like that it's because of a life of abuse. Now if you dropped it off a roof and broke it tht would be a different story.
> 
> The only time I've ever broke anyone else's tool ( 18ga finish nailer) I asked him if he wanted a new one. He ended up getting it repaired for 30 bucks so I just paid for it.


To me the boss broke it not the OP. 
But I do agree with the you break it you buy policy


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## NINZAN STUDIO (Jan 10, 2012)

A few years back, I was on a long running trim job and milled some poplar 1x4 through another carpenters very old 1-3/4hp 690PC router in a table. I did too little passes for the roman ogee edge profile we were using and burned the motor out. I didn't even ask him...just ordered a new one right then and there from Amazon (prime free ship) and told him it was on the way. That was the last time I borrowed or used anyone else's tools.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

Using other people's tools...that's a tough one. Last week I had a helper go up a ladder and drop my drill 8 ft, now it makes a clunking noise. That same day he went up the ladder with my impact and promptly dropped that as well the damn clutz. I try to only lend out tools to those I know will respect them, I've learned my lesson.

Last year I walked into a garage to find a stone mason using my brand new wood handled California framer to bash nails out of his scrap wood. Nothing wrong with that besides failing to ask first but he over struck like he hadn't swung a hammer before.

I've replaced people's hand tools that I've dulled or broken but I haven't had to replace anyone's power tools yet.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

I would replace it. I think you can't go wrong with replacing any tool you borrow and you break it, loose it, or it dies on you. The other guy will either take it and say thanks, or refuse it. 
Either way you will have done right.


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## ZackyBundles (Dec 31, 2012)

I bought a stiletto hatchet....two days later my roofing partner is smashing his hammer with it to get an anchor out...just mashed the face..his 15 dollar hammer was alright lol


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

ZackyBundles said:


> I bought a stiletto hatchet....two days later my roofing partner is smashing his hammer with it to get an anchor out...just mashed the face..his 15 dollar hammer was alright lol


That's why you keep in in your tool belt


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

TxElectrician said:


> This is why I don't borrow or loan tools.


Ever


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## Dustincoc (Sep 14, 2011)

MarkJames said:


> "I owe you an apology, Colonel. I always thought that you were a cold, unimaginative, tight lipped officer. But you're really ... quite emotional. Aren't you?"
> 
> (Kelly's Heroes)


Thats from "The Dirty Dozen" not "Kellys Heros".


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> Why not just have a frank conversation with the man & find out what he expects of you. I know if you came to me after I told you run the **** out of it, I wouldn't give it a second thought & would just replace my own tool & not think any less of you for doing what I told you to do.


My question now is why is the employee of a sub using the GC's tools?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> My question now is why is the employee of a sub using the GC's tools?


Because the sub isn't really a sub. He's a sub so the "gc" doesn't have to insure him


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> My question now is why is the employee of a sub using the GC's tools?


Dude, you're not working hard enough if you've got enough energy at the end of the day to worry about small chit like this.:laughing:

I know I've handed my tools to other guys on a job to make their work more efficient & have had other guys hand me their tools to help me out. So I guess what I'm asking, what the hell's it matter who or why?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> Dude, you're not working hard enough if you've got enough energy at the end of the day to worry about small chit like this.:laughing:
> 
> I know I've handed my tools to other guys on a job to make their work more efficient & have had other guys hand me their tools to help me out. So I guess what I'm asking, what the hell's it matter who or why?


Dude, you're not working hard enough if you got enough energy at the end of the day to worry about why I care. :laughing:

BTW, I am not worried about anything. Worry would suggest that some how it effects me one way or the other. And if the situation is how you describe it, it is far from just loaning a tool to help someone. As you said, it's a GC trying to cheap out.

Even then I am not going to loan my paint sprayer to my paint contractor to do a job unless he had a real good reason why he couldn't use his. I earned my money to buy my tools to make me more money, not to have someone charge me to do the same, but use my tools. 

And I am only 38, I have plenty of energy. Work smart not hard is what I always say. :thumbsup:


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

pinwheel said:


> Why not just have a frank conversation with the man & find out what he expects of you. I know if you came to me after I told you run the **** out of it, I wouldn't give it a second thought & would just replace my own tool & not think any less of you for doing what I told you to do.


Halleluja! Thanks Pin. :thumbsup:

Just have a conversation about it. Any boss that expects you to replace one of his tools that he put in your hand to do his job is IMO freakin daft. 

But if you have any doubts just ask the man.


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## TAHomeRepairs (Jun 18, 2012)

When this started,I was on the side of you replacing the tool. 

Now that you've explained this is actually an employee/employer relationship that is misstated on an attempt to avoid taxes and insurance, couple that with the fact your "boss" didn't listen to you and burned it to death. 

I say screw him, let them worry about the replacement.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Dustincoc said:


> Thats from "The Dirty Dozen" not "Kellys Heros".


I knew that! (Thanks!)


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> what the hell's it matter who or why?





TAHomeRepairs said:


> When this started,I was on the side of you replacing the tool.
> 
> Now that you've explained this is actually an employee/employer relationship that is misstated on an attempt to avoid taxes and insurance, couple that with the fact your "boss" didn't listen to you and burned it to death.
> 
> I say screw him, let them worry about the replacement.


That's why Pin. That's why. :whistling


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

donerightwyo said:


> Ever


Is this a confirmation statement or question?


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## B575JH (Aug 11, 2013)

It was more like hey I need you to do something that you don't normally do and to save you from going out and spending $200 plus on something you aren't likely to use again here's the tool to do it all in one swift 'Do this here's the tool." And lets not use the word avoiding and taxes in the same sentence we end up paying more taxes in the end because I get knocked for income tax, he charges the GC HST and the GC charges the homeowner HST as well. But at the end of the day they can both write it off. It is some sort of accounting and payroll dilemma its not cheaper just simpler. I don't understand anyways not the point at all the guy who gave me the tool is not my boss but sort of my bosses boss sometimes. Does that make sense Im new to this whole general contractor subcontractor BS and don't really understand why we have to label it instead of here's some work to do at the end of the week I will give you a pay check. The point was what is normally done in that situation and I've got some great answers. Lets move on too how awful it's going to be when the girls stop wearing sundresses and start putting sweaters and coats on.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

B575JH said:


> It was more like hey I need you to do something that you don't normally do and to save you from going out and spending $200 plus on something you aren't likely to use again here's the tool to do it all in one swift 'Do this here's the tool." And lets not use the word avoiding and taxes in the same sentence we end up paying more taxes in the end because I get knocked for income tax, he charges the GC HST and the GC charges the homeowner HST as well. But at the end of the day they can both write it off. It is some sort of accounting and payroll dilemma its not cheaper just simpler. I don't understand anyways not the point at all the guy who gave me the tool is not my boss but sort of my bosses boss sometimes. Does that make sense Im new to this whole general contractor subcontractor BS and don't really understand why we have to label it instead of here's some work to do at the end of the week I will give you a pay check. The point was what is normally done in that situation and I've got some great answers. Lets move on too how awful it's going to be when the girls stop wearing sundresses and start putting sweaters and coats on.


If it's the wallet then I would definitely offer to replace, he should decline, offer again with feeling, accept his next answer.

Your best upside free bonus points from all around, your worst upside cheap bonus points from all around. 

:thumbsup:


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

B575JH said:


> It was more like hey I need you to do something that you don't normally do and to save you from going out and spending $200 plus on something you aren't likely to use again here's the tool to do it all in one swift 'Do this here's the tool." And lets not use the word avoiding and taxes in the same sentence we end up paying more taxes in the end because I get knocked for income tax, he charges the GC HST and the GC charges the homeowner HST as well. But at the end of the day they can both write it off. It is some sort of accounting and payroll dilemma its not cheaper just simpler. I don't understand anyways not the point at all the guy who gave me the tool is not my boss but sort of my bosses boss sometimes. Does that make sense *Im new to this whole general contractor subcontractor BS and don't really understand why we have to label it instead of here's some work to do at the end of the week I will give you a pay check.* The point was what is normally done in that situation and I've got some great answers. Lets move on too how awful it's going to be when the girls stop wearing sundresses and start putting sweaters and coats on.


Ummm... it's about respect and power (chain of command) and money. I suggest you learn it's ways. Swiftly.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

I like Shakespeare's advice........."Never a borrower or lender be."


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## B575JH (Aug 11, 2013)

So the people who are already making money off me should also have me buy them things? Why am I going to work to make money if I walk away tired and in debt? If I buy him a new tool am I going to get a raise? No. On my first day my employer said if you break it you buy it not if it breaks you buy it. If I bring my own tools Im the person responsible for replacing them when they wear out. I don't feel I was responsible in the first place I tried making that clear in my original post I just wanted to know what protocol was when I do. It no longer has anything to do with craftsmanship but only politics. This is half the reason I spent five years hiding in a shop building stuff instead of tramping around people's houses or job sites skinning my knees to kiss their butts. Is that all being a contractor is about? Not the final picture of a job well done just who I can make like me in the mean time? I'm left with far more questions and concerns of these relationship dynamics then before. Are there other posts I should be reading about instead of just asking what I'm wondering?


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## FlyFishRI (Aug 17, 2013)

I am going to go out on a limb here and say this may not be the right career for you...


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

B575JH said:


> It was more like hey I need you to do something that you don't normally do and to save you from going out and spending $200 plus on something you aren't likely to use again here's the tool to do it all in one swift 'Do this here's the tool." And lets not use the word avoiding and taxes in the same sentence we end up paying more taxes in the end because I get knocked for income tax, he charges the GC HST and the GC charges the homeowner HST as well. But at the end of the day they can both write it off. It is some sort of accounting and payroll dilemma its not cheaper just simpler. I don't understand anyways not the point at all the guy who gave me the tool is not my boss but sort of my bosses boss sometimes. Does that make sense Im new to this whole general contractor subcontractor BS and don't really understand why we have to label it instead of here's some work to do at the end of the week I will give you a pay check. The point was what is normally done in that situation and I've got some great answers. Lets move on too how awful it's going to be when the girls stop wearing sundresses and start putting sweaters and coats on.


At this point I would say that you are not responsible, but not because he said I need you to do something you normally don't do and I'll supply the tools. It's because you really are his employee and that's what employers do when an employee breaks a tool or a tool breaks while he is using it.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

There is a difference between "being responsible" and offering to take responsibility.

Like I said they are bonus points.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Personally, I couldn't knowingly loan someone a power tool that's about to die without telling them. Secondly I couldn't loan out a dying tool in expectation that it would break in their hands so that someone else will pay for it.


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## B575JH (Aug 11, 2013)

Well that sucks because I enjoy doing this I just clearly don't understand why some people are saying its the right thing for me to replace it just for brownie points and other people are saying it has probably all ready been allocated in the budget for the job. I get that if I dropped it in a pool or misused it until it broke I should replace it that's the obvious moral choice. What I'm not understanding is why this isn't the career for me because I don't want to spend more then what I earned that day just to impress someone. Shouldn't I be trying to impress my boss with my work ethic? Is that why you see so much garbage work out there because people are more concerned with making people like them and not their work? Is that what you have done to be successful?


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