# * UPDATE * To T-shirt wearing request....



## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> The sub / employee thing is a big deal to your customers whether we are aware of it or not.
> 
> I make it a point to always bring it up with customers. In my business the kitchen and bath companies are my biggest competitors and I don't know of any of them that operate like we do. Every kitchen and bath company I know simply is in business to sell customers cabinets and then sub out all the work, so a customer will meet with a nice designer, spend hours masturbating over cabinets and then a bunch of people the customer has never met before (lowest bidders to the kitchen and bath company) show up to do the work and the kitchen and bath company spends the rest of the project doing damage management.
> 
> ...



Maybe in Denver.. 

But the sub pool here is very professional and extremely well organized. I use them to supplement my in house guys or use them on larger remodels and they are a pleasure to deal with..

A lot of them are Nari members and very well trained, most of the larger remodelers use the same guys.

I stress to homeowner that I will sub out my Framing or Drywall or whatever to my great subs, because they can do it better and faster than my in house guys and I trust them the same.

I use subs for framing, drywall, tile work etc where ever it benefits me, the homeowner or my schedule.. 

So I can't really buy that argument.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I gotta agree with Rory Mike. I fully understand on bathroom remodels where it makes total sense to have everything "in-house", I would do it that way too.

There's too much going on in a smaller space and time-frame to have to schedule subs, but on larger scale remodels (and new builds of course), I just don't see it as being plausible for most businesses.

I agree that it would be great to have your own in-house (licensed) electrician, plumbers and HVAC guys for full home remods/builds but I just don't see that as an option for most builders.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

J F said:


> I gotta agree with Rory Mike. I fully understand on bathroom remodels where it makes total sense to have everything "in-house", I would do it that way too.
> 
> There's too much going on in a smaller space and time-frame to have to schedule subs, but on larger scale remodels (and new builds of course), I just don't see it as being plausible for most businesses.
> 
> I agree that it would be great to have your own in-house (licensed) electrician, plumbers and HVAC guys for full home remods/builds but I just don't see that as an option for most builders.


I agree.And I also think that how ever it is done (all in house or w/ the help of subs) that there is no legit reason to try and make it appear that a sub is actually an employee.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I've got no argument with that. My point was, and is...why the mountain out of the mole hill?

Just say "no"...pretty simple.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I think just walking off a job, is just plain unprofessional...._especially_ when the op knew what was expected.

If we want to play scenario games...IF the GC had demanded that the op wear his shirt the first day on the job, after a contract had been signed and no mention of the dreaded t-shirt was made...then yeah, the op could then have a conversation...and say NO...and pack up his stuff and let the attorneys fight it out if need be.

Why even show up if you know what is expected, but you know you're not going to do what's expected? I don't get it.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Wait a minute. I thought this was about free estimates? No?

How about teenagers working without GL? Still no?

Did that pool guy get 600 likes on FB yet? :laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm just waiting for the first einstien to extrapolate from my posts....

_"So you're for lying to your clients and don't care how they will be injured by this deceptive practice...you must be a BBB member!" _:w00t:


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

I have worked as an employee, a sub, and as a GC at various times in my life.

I do not understand the drama over a Tshirt. By the way, I required my subs to not use a lettered vehicle when working on my jobs. Is that wrong also?

I personally would wear a company tshirt if the GC wanted me to. No skin of my back as long as I was paid.:clap:

This should have been ironed out before the OP even showed up on the job site.:whistling

This all sounds like a bunch of prima donnas on this thread...

Money rules, boys.:thumbsup:


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

J F said:


> I've got no argument with that. My point was, and is...why the mountain out of the mole hill?
> 
> Just say "no"...pretty simple.


no.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Framer53 said:


> I have worked as an employee, a sub, and as a GC at various times in my life.
> 
> I do not understand the drama over a Tshirt. *By the way, I required my subs to not use a lettered vehicle when working on my jobs.* Is that wrong also?
> 
> ...


How in the world do you enforce that?Make them peel the letters off before they pull up?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

It is a very calming and reassuring technique to explain to clients that the massive HVAC firm (for instance) that you are using has a small army of specialized technicians, each specifically trained and skilled in the various sub-factions of the Air Conditioning work involved. Some do strictly duct work, some pipe, some set units, some install controls, some balance systems, etc.

Show them that they are getting the cream of the crop in the whole county, if not the state. Far better than if you had to rely upon only two or three men you could afford to keep salaried the whole year round to know everything about all of it.

And this is true!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

J F said:


> I gotta agree with Rory Mike. I fully understand on bathroom remodels where it makes total sense to have everything "in-house", I would do it that way too.
> 
> There's too much going on in a smaller space and time-frame to have to schedule subs, but on larger scale remodels (and new builds of course), I just don't see it as being plausible for most businesses.
> 
> I agree that it would be great to have your own in-house (licensed) electrician, plumbers and HVAC guys for full home remods/builds but I just don't see that as an option for most builders.


Yep, you guys are right, I fogot the 2nd rule of contractor fight club, everybodies location, market and what they do effects how things work. :thumbsup:


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## Gary1 (Jan 12, 2010)

Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 

Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
Stop the thread 
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Gary1 said:


> Stop the thread
> Stop the thread
> Stop the thread
> Stop the thread
> ...


Stop reading it brainyack.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

JumboJack said:


> How in the world do you enforce that?Make them peel the letters off before they pull up?


Don't hire subs with signs on their trucks.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Framer53 said:


> Don't hire subs with signs on their trucks.


Seriously?:blink:


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

its def differently around here, its seen as a good thing if you hire subs with lettered vans and trucks. the county is slowly enforcing new rules, one of which is a county licence for each sub on the job. there is a list that is supposed to be posted with the permit. next they said is all trucks/vans will be required to have the company name and lic number on it. its going to be harder and harder for GC's to pretend to be big shots for much longer.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

chris klee said:


> its def differently around here, its seen as a good thing if you hire subs with lettered vans and trucks. the county is slowly enforcing new rules, one of which is a county licence for each sub on the job. there is a list that is supposed to be posted with the permit. next they said is all trucks/vans will be required to have the company name and lic number on it. *its going to be harder and harder for GC's to pretend to be big shots for much longer.*


But many will continue to try...:laughing:


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## maleko (Jun 6, 2007)

Well, The GC called me today after i left him a message letting him know i will be sending a bill for my time, My contract was time and material.

He agreed to meet me and give me a check for my time.:thumbsup: 

yes he showed and had a check in hand, went right to the bank it was drawn on and cashed it right away.

Yes to some it might sound unprofessional to walk off a job, But you and only you will know when things just arent going to be right. that was my feeling and i acted on it. 

The GC actually said sorry about everything and even told me the Plumbers told him they wouldnt wear his shirts either and didnt take the job. he didnt understand what the problem was...

SO now this guy has no one to do the work and he is very worried about finishing the work. He actually asked me if i knew anyone who could do the work..

I said sure there are plenty of guys here that see nothing worng with wearing your shirts ...:whistling Ill pass the word on.....:laughing:

Anyway it worked out for me i got paid and no harm was done


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Framer53 said:


> By the way, I required my subs to not use a lettered vehicle when working on my jobs. Is that wrong also?


How are you able to find sparkies, plumbers, roofers and HVAC cpntractors?


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## csnell (Jul 20, 2009)

> GC.. Ok this is kinda embarassing, but, i wouldnt have gotten this job if i didnt have enough people working in my company, the owners were concerned i didnt have the man power so i told them i had plenty of people working for me, not a problem.


I've been following this ordeal with interest since the beginning. I asked my subs how they felt about this (not making it hypothetical, but more of a thing I was thinking of doing!)
One said: [expletive] you, Con. 
Another said: Cool! free T-shirt? (he subs almost exclusively with us)
Yet another said: I'd rather not. I have my own business going on here. I'm not technically your employee.

I make it clear right from the start that we require subs to show up on the site looking presentable, and we do, from time to time have tee shirts made up with our logo. They're advertising and promotion hand-outs, and they can wear them or not, on the job or out on the town or anywhere else.

If the GC is going to be dishonest enough to lie to the homeowner from the start to get the job and then expect his subs to back up his pathetic lie, I'd have bailed as quickly as you did. :thumbup: Good on you, bud. You have your own business reputation to uphold, and my hunch is that you'll be in business long after his tee shirts fade in the wash.


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## csnell (Jul 20, 2009)

> How are you able to find sparkies, plumbers, roofers and HVAC contractors?


My question as well!


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

I think that the days of contractors doing everything in house are getting shorter and shorter.You have got to keep pretty busy to keep an electrician and plumber busy all week.

I know some guy's are still really busy.But how many that had 10+ employees only have a few years ago now only have a few?Or none?


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

ChrWright said:


> Let's not get carried away with absolutes and generalizations.


That's not what some of the bigger names (by post count ) on this site would have you believe. Everything is absolute, and it's absolute by how they see the world, you know, flat, and finite.


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## Big Rig (Feb 23, 2009)

griz said:


> send a brief note to the ho's as to who you are, why you were there, the outcome & wish them good luck.


absolutely!!!


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

Shoot, I would have told him give me a shirt for every day of the week. I wouldn't mind wearing a free shirt every day at work. I don't think anyone gives a crap what's on it. After lunch my shirt is gonna have burger juice and ketchup spilled on it anyway. Maybe I could get a free bib too.


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## Rockhound (Jul 12, 2007)

Wait til he wants it tattoed on your chest:laughing:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

A. Spruce said:


> That's not what some of the bigger names (by post count ) on this site would have you believe. Everything is absolute, and it's absolute by how they see the world, you know, flat, and finite.


You're absolutely wrong there.... in general. :thumbup:

I guess it is kind of glaring, isn't it? :shutup: :sad:


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)




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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

ok, this is just becoming an insult fest

13 pages about shirts is plenty


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