# Subcontractor Start Time



## pathbuilder (Jul 22, 2017)

Of course a subcontractor is their own entity, they decide which jobs to take, who to work for, when to do it. However we work inside and outside of occupied residential homes. Do you require your subcontractors to show up by a certain time, instead of sometimes rolling in at 8am, sometimes at 11am, sometimes 3pm? "Can you" require this of a sub? What's your attendance policy with subs?


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

pathbuilder said:


> Of course a subcontractor is their own entity, they decide which jobs to take, who to work for, when to do it. However we work inside and outside of occupied residential homes. Do you require your subcontractors to show up by a certain time, instead of sometimes rolling in at 8am, sometimes at 11am, sometimes 3pm? "Can you" require this of a sub? What's your attendance policy with subs?


Depends on the customer and their requests... Some don't care, some like to get ready and leave for work first, some days you can't work at all or leave by a certain time (usually if a customer observes certain holidays or religion) etc.


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## Harber (Jul 22, 2018)

Depends on the client. If they don't care, I don't care. If they only give us an 8 hour window on a given day, the sub better have his arse there and get the job done.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Officially, as I understand it, you can't dictate time to a sub...

However, I would think you can say:

"We only have access to the job between 7am and 3pm, monday thru friday. I have it in our contract that you're about to sign, in case you missed it, that your part will be COMPLETE by Wednesday, August 15th, 2018. 

I don't care how many hours you put in per day, or how many days you show up at all for that matter...but your part WILL be done by the agreed upon date during those times of day, or you will be payed ONLY for percentage of work completed and fired. THAT'S the deal. If you can't finish in that time frame, then don't sign and we'll talk again on the next one....on the flip side of that coin, if you do sign this contract and don't complete on time...we're done. You're a grown business man...you decide if that gives you enough time or not...but decide now, not after you're running behind."

Now, most of that, you shouldn't have to actually say out loud, but most of it does need to be in your contract, so when you fire them, they won't expect full payment for half a job.


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## pathbuilder (Jul 22, 2017)

We're exterior deck builders, thankfully homeowners don't need to be home. I'm trying to alleviate me telling a customer "we'll be there tomorrow" and then my subs not showing up until 12pm and my customer calling me at 9:05am or 11am and saying "are you still coming today???". So I can either:

1) Educate my customers (even more), "our start times are variable"
2) Require my subs to be on the job site by 9am latest (I'd prefer this, tho I'm not sure if this is "allowed" with subs)
3) Secret option #3?


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Inside or outside, it still applies.

"We have access from 7a-3p, mon-fri ONLY.....don't like it, don't take the job"

Even if the job is outside, some people still like their quiet family time in the evenings.

Secret #3 is hire employees to do the work. Then they show up when you say or they kick rocks.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

On a occupied remodel - job supervisor is assigned to this project, he will unlock the door and lock up at days end, and will be on site unless getting materials. He opens the door at 8 am, please do not waste his time as we will not waste yours. If for some reason you will be late let him know

New construction - they show up all different times


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I have pretty much enjoyed an outstanding relationship with my subs.

New construction usually is no big deal....

But on residential remodels, commercial remodels & TI work there are at times a more demanding schedule.

If I needed a guy on the job at 6 AM or 10 PM they were there, all I needed to do was ask...:thumbsup:


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## remdlr (Aug 6, 2018)

Start times are flexible, but please be respectful of the homeowner as they are allowing us to be on their property. We ask that you try your best to be on the job site by 8am. 
If you aren’t able to arrive on time or at all that day, communicate that to us. “No call no shows” will not be tolerated.
As to not delay the project and prevent a customer from utilizing their own home fully, once a project has been started, we ask that the project is worked on consistently and consecutively, before any other side work is taken on. We ask that other side work is done between jobs.
Work performed can fall any time between Monday through Saturday 7am to 7pm. If you’d like to work Sunday please seek company approval ahead of time, not directly with the homeowner.
If the weather is forecasted to be poor that day, that morning of communicate to us when you’re planning on going in


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## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

I do probably 85% of my work as a sub.


Demo guy here. 



Generally, daily schedule is something I discuss during pre-bid to determine: day job, night job, shortened hours, multiple mobilizations etc to help eliminate suprises. These will obviously all have an impact on my number.



If the owner is remodeling and living (or keeping the business open) for the duration, then this is info you need to know before you can finalize your number. If they are not going to be living there for the duration of the remodel (or if it's a total demo in which case they BETTER be outta there!!!), then I just cross-check my schedule with the local noise ordinance and that'll dictate my hours. Usually, GCs that have their stuff together will be calling you way in advance to let you know start date. 



I make it a point to be there, no excuses, and there's obvious consequence for my guys if they're late. The only time I plan on not being there tomorrow is if I'm 100%.



The worst is other trades not showing up or being late affects other trades, ie, sparky or plumber not being there to cut and cap, etc in my case.



I ain't perfect, but this definitely helps me get repeat invites from GCs.


Sometimes, you live and learn. Maybe find new subs next time around. Easy for me to say, I rarely have to get subs (usually a saw cutter or sod guy), but I usually call them well in advance, make them give me a day when they'll be there, call them a day ahead just to be sure, and I only give them 15min grace period, and then the phone calls start. Like Griz, the few subs I use, I've used often, so we have a good relationship.


Agree with remdlr about weather -- I'm usually on the phone from 5am till start time watching the weather and coordinating.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

Its about finding subs who operate in a way that works well for the jobs your run. I find that many of the subs that work well for me are on the larger side. Its a lot easier for a plumbing company with 5 crews to get someone out to my job when I need then then a one man show who might have to break another commitment to get to what I need. Most of the larger companies also work 7:30 - 4:00 in my area, so its easy for everyone to be on the same schedule within reason. They can also throw more guys at a job to hit a deadline if they need to.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

pathbuilder said:


> We're exterior deck builders, thankfully homeowners don't need to be home. I'm trying to alleviate me telling a customer "we'll be there tomorrow" and then my subs not showing up until 12pm and my customer calling me at 9:05am or 11am and saying "are you still coming today???". So I can either:
> 
> 1) Educate my customers (even more), "our start times are variable"
> 2) Require my subs to be on the job site by 9am latest (I'd prefer this, tho I'm not sure if this is "allowed" with subs)
> 3) Secret option #3?



Dictating my start/finish time is a good way to not keep me as a sub. Having an adult conversation with me about what works well for you will have me trying to accommodate your scheduling. But I typically have 3 - 5 jobs going the same time in any given week. Tell me when it needs to be completed & inform me of any special needs/considerations & your job will be done on time, but nobody's dictating my schedule. Except my wife.:laughing:


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## pathbuilder (Jul 22, 2017)

Do most GCs operate with a handbook of policies, and a separate contract? Or just a contract?

What about stuff like no smoking inside, basics of quality, don't do changes without GC communication, how payments to sub are made, etc. I think there's a place for a "sub policy handbook" that applies to all jobs, and a contract that applies to each job (scope of work, $, timetable) 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

pathbuilder said:


> Do most GCs operate with a handbook of policies, and a separate contract? Or just a contract?
> 
> What about stuff like no smoking inside, basics of quality, don't do changes without GC communication, how payments to sub are made, etc. I think there's a place for a "sub policy handbook" that applies to all jobs, and a contract that applies to each job (scope of work, $, timetable)
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


i can tell you where to stick a policy handbook, especially for subs.

you will soon be self performing all your work....

cover specifics you want in a contract and let it go....


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

I don't want subs working on one of my jobs when my superintendent isn't on site, so they need to work within the same hours that we work. I guess, I don't care if they show up later than us if they can keep on schedule, but when we go home at the end of the day, they are leaving too and things are getting locked up. Too much liability otherwise.

The key is to communicate this clearly when you issue the contract, however that info often fails to make it's way from the subcontractors office to his field personnel.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Nov 1, 2015)

Fishindude said:


> I don't want subs working on one of my jobs when my superintendent isn't on site, so they need to work within the same hours that we work. I guess, I don't care if they show up later than us if they can keep on schedule, but when we go home at the end of the day, they are leaving too and things are getting locked up. Too much liability otherwise.
> 
> The key is to communicate this clearly when you issue the contract, however that info often fails to make it's way from the subcontractors office to his field personnel.


This is how I handle it too, you can come in whenever you want to but be there at the time you say you will, and you’re done when I close things down for the day for the most part.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Nov 1, 2015)

pathbuilder said:


> We're exterior deck builders, thankfully homeowners don't need to be home. I'm trying to alleviate me telling a customer "we'll be there tomorrow" and then my subs not showing up until 12pm and my customer calling me at 9:05am or 11am and saying "are you still coming today???". So I can either:
> 
> 1) Educate my customers (even more), "our start times are variable"
> 2) Require my subs to be on the job site by 9am latest (I'd prefer this, tho I'm not sure if this is "allowed" with subs)
> 3) Secret option #3?


No, you cannot force your subs to show up at a certain time, that is one of the defining differences between sub and employee. 

If you aren’t working there as well or needing them to be done with “X” task at a certain time for someone to come behind them, you need to just tell your customers up front that the job will be done by the completion date, but you have several going on at once so guys will not necessarily be working 8-5 daily. 

If there are things you plan to work on with your subs, you can ask them what time they want to meet there, or ask it phrased as “I can be there at 8:30, does that work for you?”


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## pathbuilder (Jul 22, 2017)

Great points. And giving a completion date to the homeowner would solve this, tho not easily - unexpected delays come up, weather, guys get sick, hidden conditions, etc. What do you guarantee your homeowners if the job isn't finished by the completion date?


Gatorgrizz27 said:


> No, you cannot force your subs to show up at a certain time, that is one of the defining differences between sub and employee.
> 
> If you aren’t working there as well or needing them to be done with “X” task at a certain time for someone to come behind them, you need to just tell your customers up front that the job will be done by the completion date, but you have several going on at once so guys will not necessarily be working 8-5 daily.
> 
> If there are things you plan to work on with your subs, you can ask them what time they want to meet there, or ask it phrased as “I can be there at 8:30, does that work for you?”


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

griz said:


> i can tell you where to stick a policy handbook, especially for subs.
> 
> you will soon be self performing all your work....
> 
> cover specifics you want in a contract and let it go....


On projects ranging from 100k to 1.4 mm, I have never had a sub sign a contract. Commercial and residential. 

Competent builders attract competent subs.


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Nov 1, 2015)

pathbuilder said:


> Great points. And giving a completion date to the homeowner would solve this, tho not easily - unexpected delays come up, weather, guys get sick, hidden conditions, etc. What do you guarantee your homeowners if the job isn't finished by the completion date?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Give yourself enough time, if it’s 7 days worth of work tell them it should take right about 2 weeks. I prefer to give the “third week of August” as a completion date rather than “August 14” as it gives you a bit of flexibility while sticking to your word and timeline. The exceptions are things like parties, if they’re having a 4th of July party, it can’t be done on the 6th. 

Most people are reasonable and understand if it rains for a week progress will be slower. I really don’t ever take sick days, I had a stomach virus last month and was still putting in ~ 5 hour days. Something I learned from my dad. If my guys call in sick, I can still get a lot done on my own. 

As far as start dates, I do the same thing. When scheduling a job tell them the approximate week you’ll be ready, and you will give them an exact start date a few days out. I also try not to schedule things more than 8-10 weeks out, I tell clients beyond that my rough lead times and I will put them on my list and contact them when we’re getting close. This prevents having to push back a ton of people when something like a major delay does happen. 

Obviously, this works well if your jobs are less than 2 weeks, if you’re talking bigger projects you’ll have to handle it differently.


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