# Do I really need a 250 / 2500?



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Norris Design said:


> Angus...I would be interested in knowing those tricks!! I just got an 08 F350 diesel and I've been getting 14-15 on the highway (empty).
> 
> A 1 ton is definately overkill for me most of the time, but I plan on keeping it around for awhile so I wanted to make sure the power was there for whenever I did need it.


i got the same truck and i am not hauling a lot of weight all the time but i have my trailer. i'm probably getting 15-16mpg without the trailer and not much in the bed.

ladder racks do make a little difference. maybe angus doesn't have them on his.


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## BHR (Jan 7, 2009)

I looked into the new truck thing recently - trying to decide the same thing - go 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton.

I will stick with Fords since that is what I looked into.

If you want towing and load weight but want to do better with fuel mileage and can't warrant a f250 then a package like this will put you basically in the same class as a 250 in a 150 truck.

2011
F150 long box
FX4 package
Camper package
Max trailer tow package
18" wheels

Believe it or not in this combo the 150 has more towing capacity than a comparable 250 due to being a lighter truck - also the price is a lot lower overall.

I ended up buying a 2010 250 but that was only because there was no long box 150's with the above configuration available in Dec 2009. Actually had a hell of a time finding a 250 at that time too. I didn't want to wait for the 2011 to roll out and there wasn't any incentives on them at the time.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

A capable half ton would be fine for 99% of people. I have the F150 with the lowest payload rating they make and i have no problem towing a 7500GVWR trailer. Remember that most people wont even be near the GVWR for the trailer. I'm at just over 4000lbs currently when loaded with tools. I very rarely put materials in there but it still has the capacity to. 

A normal F150 will have much much more payload capacity than what mine has so your looking at easy being able to handle around 10k-11k towing capacity and payloads over 2000lb. I don't know one contractor with a trailer that the F150 cant handle. I have put almost 2000lb in my bed without any problems and i was quite a way from the bump stops still. I guess the trucks with the extra capacity would easy be able to take 3000lb+ no problem because they have over 1000lb+ extra payload capacity than mine. 

You guys with the 3/4 and 1 tons would be well impressed with how well a 1/2 ton candle handle these loads. I am and thats with someone coming from a F250 SD which i still use at times. Used it just the other day and boy was i happy to get back into my truck.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Well IMO if your going 1/2 ton buy Ford or GM but GM will have the better gas milage. For 3/4 ton i would also go with GM for the better ride quality but the gas milage of any of the big 3 is going to suck. From what i understand the new GM 6.2 with the 6spd auto is getting up to 16mpg so thats decent for a 3/4 ton gasser. I myself run diesels and will never go back to a gasser, they have awesome power, great fuel milage and tend to hold their value better over time. Yes, oil changes cost more but you can run them longer on an oil change too so alot of that extra cost can be offset.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I am surprised no one has mentioned the big Toyota yet :whistling.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

woodchuck2 said:


> Well IMO if your going 1/2 ton buy Ford or GM but GM will have the better gas milage. For 3/4 ton i would also go with GM for the better ride quality but the gas milage of any of the big 3 is going to suck. From what i understand the new GM 6.2 with the 6spd auto is getting up to 16mpg so thats decent for a 3/4 ton gasser. I myself run diesels and will never go back to a gasser, they have awesome power, great fuel milage and tend to hold their value better over time. Yes, oil changes cost more but you can run them longer on an oil change too so alot of that extra cost can be offset.


 
The Ford currently has the best MPG for the 6.2 and the 5.4. If i remember correctly they are both rated at 18-20mpg. Also this is running on regular the GM require premium to get the MPG and power figures they quote. I wouldn't touch a GM with yours lol. Every person i ever known who had one and currently has one has been in for service for electrical issues none stop. Some easy fixes some major rewires.

Oh yeah lets not even get onto the 3rd trans my father in law is on.


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## Red Adobe (Jul 26, 2008)

I have a 3500 with the vortec 350 auto OD and it does well.....14 in traffic and 21 at 70 mph cruise on 86 octane. It'd be better with a standard but hey

Diesels are fine until you have to replace injectors then pucker up, my buddys all went that way and they spend alot more on upkeep then I have and mine has 270k on it and theirs started costing$$$$ about 120k. STROKE injectors start at $200 and go up X 8 plus labor OUCH I can buy a gm crate motor for not much more then that


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## Trim-man (Mar 13, 2010)

Do you need a big F'n truck? Yes!
Do you need captains call exhaust on a boat? Yes!
Do you need loud pipes on your Harley? Yes!

I say buy the big truck,preferably diesel, change out : the exhaust, intake, tires and rims, jack it up, add a programer then go have fun.

Why? Because we're men damn-it!

Sorry couldn't help myself


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## buildenterprise (Dec 4, 2007)

Five Star said:


> I have the sprinter 3500 dually 158" wheelbase and average fully loaded city driving 19.2 per gallon its about a 25 gallon tank i just filled up for $67 and will get around 480 miles for the tank:thumbsup: if i trim down the stuff i dont use every day i can be easy @22 city 26 hwy I have the older version i heard the newer ones get around 16 city 19 highway empty



Yes, I've heard that the newer 6-cylinder Benz diesels don't get nearly as much mileage as the older 5-cylinder engines.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Don't forget the $75+ oil changes, in those oil burners.


At a stealership perhaps. 

I change the oil on my 3 7.3's. Only 1 is running conventional diesel oil and next time it's up for fresh oil it will get Amsoil.

A few years ago stocked up on oil filters at Sears, $2.99 each. Right now Rotela is $8 a gallon at it takes 3.5 gallons to fill the crankcase. With tax your under $40. 

Will never go back to a gasser or a half ton.


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## jchomes (Mar 3, 2010)

i have half ton chevy 1500 , every day i wish i had bought a 2500 but i do tow small 10 ft trailer loaded with tools and haul lumber all the time . let me just say today i loaded 6- 10 ft 6x6 and 6- 16 ft 2x10 and blew out the leaf spring and this is not the first time last year had 18 bndls 30 yr arc shingle blew out not a good work truck !!:sad:


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

angus242 said:


> Not at my house :no:
> 
> It is....by far....the easiest vehicle to the change oil that I've owned.
> 
> 15 qt oil = $40. Change oil every 5000, filter every 10K.



You should try the 4bt cummins on my telehandler if you want easy!

Can do it all standing up:thumbsup:


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## csv (Aug 18, 2009)

I have a 06 Nissan Titan. I tow a 7x12 tandem axle trailer almost daily. It pulls the 4300 lb. trailer fine, from last trip to the dump. Its rated to tow 9500 lb. When pulling my trailer around town all week I get about 13-14 mpg. If I had to do it all over again I wouldnt have bought a 1/2 ton truck. At the time I didnt know I would be getting a trailer in the near future. I have borrowed my brothers f-350 to tow a cement trailer, rental place says they are about 12000 pounds loaded. I dont buy it but the truck felt like it was empty. I think that a 3/4 ton and up would last longer. Its a lot of stress on smaller parts, which weighs on my mind. If I had a one ton, it would never cross my mind. Diesels are also weigh easier to mod.


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## RCT (Jan 5, 2010)

Panzer5 said:


> I'm looking to replace my aging 97 GMC Yukon & buy a pick-up. (I'd get another Yukon if they still offered a tail-gate).
> 
> I'm interested in the GMC Sierra or the Ford - but don't know whether to get the regular 1500 class or go for the 2500 class trucks.
> 
> ...


To the best of my knowledge, your Yukon would have to be a 1/2 ton chassis. If your Yukon handled the amount of weight you carry fine I would think a newer 1/2 ton pickup would work just as well and probably better. If you plan on hauling more I'd have to say go with the 3/4ton.


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## tcholdren (Jun 27, 2007)

The difference between the models F150-350 GM 1500-3500 or Dodge. 

Leaf Springs and Hubs-6 bolt or 8 bolt. Stronger axels and In some cases the Height on the frame is taller.

Dont make the same mistake I did in 1999, i purchased a used 3/4 ton. Only to find out later that on every model of truck there is a light duty and a heavy duty.(6 bolt hub vs 8 bolt)

My first 3/4 ton chevy truck has 6 bolt rims making it a light duty but has the same leaf springs as the heavy duty. You get a load on and hit a rough road you could break a stud bolt off the hub.

My current truck an 01' 2500 HD 6.0L 4 door short box has done pretty well pulls the 16' tool trailer no prob. When pulling the 16' flat bed with the case 1845c makes me wish i had the diesel.

From my exp. make sure to check the bolt patterns. Dont short your self buy purchasing the half ton you may have a heavy load in the box in need of the stronger leaf springs.

some one posted a picture on here a week ago of a F150 OVERLOADED with scaffolding in the box, seeing that pic makes you think of what vehicle, model and trailer a person should be using to be SAFE.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

tcholdren said:


> Dont make the same mistake I did in 1999, i purchased a used 3/4 ton. Only to find out later that on every model of truck there is a light duty and a heavy duty.(6 bolt hub vs 8 bolt)
> 
> My first 3/4 ton chevy truck has 6 bolt rims making it a light duty but has the same leaf springs as the heavy duty. You get a load on and hit a rough road you could break a stud bolt off the hub.


I typed a huge post on the differance on 6 bolt non Full floating axles and 8 bolt full floater but lost my internet connection.

So here is the short awnser. The studs won't break off from over loading. The only slight chance is if you had after market rims that aren't hub supported rims like factory. Even then it is a VERY slim chance.

Cole


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

I think that only you can answer the question of 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton. What are you going to be hauling with your truck. If all your hauling is Styrofoam then get the 1/2 ton but, if you are going to be hauling over 500 lbs on regular basis I'd recommend the 3/4 ton. If you haul light loads in a 3/4 ton you won't wear it out. But if you haul heavy loads in a 1/2 ton it'll cost you more in the long run. My advice would be buy a 1 ton 4 X 4 diesel. But that's because that is what I would wont. And by the way diesels don't get good _gas_ milage they get good _fuel_ milage.:laughing:


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## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

only concerns id have with a 1/2 ton is the tranny is usually suspect , you get a stronger one in the 3/4 ton version, also the 6 lug vs 8 lug axles are stronger like mentioned above but so are the axle tubes themselves . with my old 1/2 ton chevy i used to haul some heavy loads the bobcat guys would be amazed i didnt bust axle tubes. .. now its a mandatory heavy duty rear and a good solid trannsmission for a truck used for work.


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## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

trucks that get bad gas mileage can haul 3 times as much load meaning that they migh get worse mileage but it takes 1/3 the amount of trips to haul the same amount as a truck that gets good mileage. . a geo metro might get 35 mpg loaded to its max and a 454 truck might get 10 mpg but the 454 can haul in 1 load what it would take a geo metro to do in 10 loads. its all in perspective.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

S.R.E. said:


> I think that only you can answer the question of 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton. What are you going to be hauling with your truck. If all your hauling is Styrofoam then get the 1/2 ton but, if you are going to be hauling over 500 lbs on regular basis I'd recommend the 3/4 ton. If you haul light loads in a 3/4 ton you won't wear it out. But if you haul heavy loads in a 1/2 ton it'll cost you more in the long run. My advice would be buy a 1 ton 4 X 4 diesel. But that's because that is what I would wont. And by the way diesels don't get good _gas_ milage they get good _fuel_ milage.:laughing:


 
My half ton carrys over 1000lb every day, day in day out and it has zero problem! I dont know who told you they can only carry 500lb but they need to learn some more about truck payload and GVRW. My truck even has zero problem pulling a 7x14ft trailer ontop of that 1000lbs. It's funny to watch people go buy 3/4ton trucks when they never use them anywhere near their rated capacitys. Some 3/4 tons even have a lower capacity than some half tons because of toping out the GVWR. Now if your twoing a 5th wheel then yes of course get a truck thats design for this which would be a 3/4 ton but dont be thinking a 1/2ton can only carry 500lb LMFAO. Most F150 can carry 2000lbs+ without issue. I have seen many take 3000lbs without breaking a sweat.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

I wouldn't own a truck that didn't have an 8' box.

Or couldn't take 2000lb.



3/4 ton is a better choice. Unless it's a soccer mom or an executive.

In the ford and dodge you get the solid front axle too. (4x4).


imo


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

A full floater axle (typical 3/4 ton) is better because the axleshaft is only used to propel the vehicle.
The bearings on the spindle support the weight.

On a semifloat axle (typical 1/2 ton) The axle shafts have to support the weight and propel the vehicle. On many semi float axles, if you break the axleshaft the wheel can come off the truck.



Not to say a half ton can't or won't do the job.

But imo.
I'd prefer a truck to be working at say 30% capacity (3/4 ton)
than 75% (1/2 ton) 

then again there's price considerations.


I don't know, I'd prefer a 1ton.:laughing:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

My 3/4 ton chev van is 4yrs old, and it's done. Crushed front axle bearings, breaking studs off the wheels.

Too much weight in it all the time, plus towing a 6 x 12 trailer half the time.

I would consider how much weight is going to be in the vehicle all the time. I carry a lot of tools plus roof rack with ladders, then some materials. It adds up pretty fast.

3/4 ton would be the minimum for construction/remodeling. 

My new 1 ton comes in the end of June. Can't wait, and no more 3/4 tons for me. :thumbup:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That's one of the reasons I got the 2500. My 21 cu ft tool boxes on either side of the truck weigh 300lbs and I carry 500lbs of tools with me at all times. So put me in the truck and my normal weight load is 1/2 ton. And it only gets heavier form there. I could have gone with a 1500, but I know that would put the truck near capacity form the get go. The truck just glides with that load and I know it will last longer than if I got the 1500.


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> My half ton carries over 1000lb every day, day in day out and it has zero problem! I dont know who told you they can only carry 500lb but they need to learn some more about truck payload and GVRW. My truck even has zero problem pulling a 7x14ft trailer ontop of that 1000lbs. It's funny to watch people go buy 3/4ton trucks when they never use them anywhere near their rated capacitys. Some 3/4 tons even have a lower capacity than some half tons because of toping out the GVWR. Now if your twoing a 5th wheel then yes of course get a truck thats design for this which would be a 3/4 ton but dont be thinking a 1/2ton can only carry 500lb LMFAO. Most F150 can carry 2000lbs+ without issue. I have seen many take 3000lbs without breaking a sweat.


I didn't sat you couldn't haul more than 500 lbs on a 1/2 ton. I just said that if your going to be consistently hauling more than 500lbs I would recommend a 3/4 ton. And we all know that as time goes along some of us want to carry more and more stuff with us "that we can't do without". IMO it's not just the GVWR It's the components that are more heavy duty that mater.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Need...no

DO you want....not yet but you might

some 3/4 tons are basically 1/2 tons that look bigger.

You need to educate yourself on the specs of the truck. The big three do this alot with the gassers. They give you the bigger chassis, brakes, and axles, but the throw in an engine and tranny that goes in the 1/2 ton pickup.

So if you arent getting an upgraded motor and tranny (and transfer case if you go 4x4) then there really isnt much of a point because i find that those are things that fail before the axles and frame. 

That is why i went diesel. The motor out lasts a gasser without question (though in the newer ones with electrically controlled injectors have injector failers ALOT). Second the tranny and transfer case are far stronger built because they are often times ones that are thrown in 1 1/2 ton medium duty trucks as well. 

And there is the added bonus of the ease to squeeze a lot more mileage and power out of the diesel motor than the gasser without shortening its life.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

GM wanted another 10 grand for the diesel. Agreed it and the tranny are far superior to the gas motor. But my take on it was unless you are hauling a lot of weight (which I'm not) it just wasn't worth the money.

My understanding is the miliage isn't that much different.

The other factor would be how much miliage are you putting on it? I do about 40,000 km. year, and will change the vehicle in 4 yrs. So there's no advantage for me to go diesel.

I did have a Dodge with the cummins in it, and it was sweet. Just don't need that much pulling power anymore.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

john5mt said:


> Need...no
> 
> DO you want....not yet but you might
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure on the superduties, that the transmission/transfercase is the same for gassers and diesels.

And the 5.4 with 300hp is better than many big blocks of the past.

I'd take a 5.4 everyday over a 460 from the mid 90's

Better mileage, better longevity. better road manners.


imo

460 engine hp rating 1984.......214hp. 362 ft/lb
460 enginehp RATING 1998....245 395ft/lb 
v10 engine hp 1999-2004....310 425ft/lb
3v 5.4 engine hp rating ...........300 365ft/lb


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Wait a minute........My F-150 has 7 lugs


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

hughjazz said:


> imo
> 
> 460 engine hp rating 1984.......214hp. 362 ft/lb
> 460 enginehp RATING 1998....245 395ft/lb
> ...


Torque is more important than HP when pulling. HP is directly related to how fast and torque is related to how long it takes to go fast.

You could have 500HP and 100 ft-lb and it would barely pull a truck, but as a motorcycle it would fly.

You could have a 100HP 500 ft-lb and it would move a small building, but only at a slow rate of speed.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I like my 3/4 ton Gmc burban with the 454.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

I don't like to disagree with a mod, especially when I was a vip recently:shifty:. *edit* it's more of a clarification.

Horsepower is the amount of work being done. 

Torque is force measured.

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/power_and_torque.htm

This may or may not be interesting for somebody to read, It describes the difference between the 2


Lot's of torque at low rpm make a more efficient and comfortable towing vehicle. Eg. my cummins had like 500ft/lb torque and 180 hp. It pulled very well. But it redlined at 3000. (my favorite tow vehicle)

Conversely my 5.4 will pull strong up to 5500 rpm or so. It will pull the same load, but it needs the rpm. (not as nice of a tow vehicle)


Horsepower measures how much work the engine doing.


300 hp is more work than 180hp.



More interesting reading.

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/2007/shootout/hdshootout1.html


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Pretty much what I said. HP will give you more speed..


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## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

also if you plan on renting equipment it will help to have a bigger truck or they might not let you rent it . such as bobcats etc . you need a 1 ton rated to rent a bobcat at my nearest rental place.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Leo G said:


> Pretty much what I said. HP will give you more speed..



Hp= Torque x rpm/ 5252.

Cut and paste

*Example 1:* How much TORQUE is required to produce 300 HP at 2700 RPM?
since HP = TORQUE x RPM ÷ 5252
then by rearranging the equation:
TORQUE = HP x 5252 ÷ RPM
*Answer: TORQUE = 300 x 5252 ÷ 2700 = 584 lb-ft.*

*Example 2:* How much TORQUE is required to produce 300 HP at 4600 RPM?
*Answer: TORQUE = 300 x 5252 ÷ 4600 = 343 lb-ft.*

*Example 3:* How much TORQUE is required to produce 300 HP at 8000 RPM?
*Answer: TORQUE = 300 x 5252 ÷ 8000 = 197 lb-ft.*

*Example 4:* How much TORQUE does the 41,000 RPM turbine section of a 300 HP gas turbine engine produce?
*Answer: TORQUE = 300 x 5252 ÷ 41,000 = 38.4 lb-ft.*


^cut and paste^


To clarify.

Higher torque allows you to make more power at a lower speed.


-A 300 hp *low* torque engine will pull a trailer up a hill just as hard as
a 300 hp* high* torque engine.
One does it at a lower engine rpm.
one does it at a higher rpm.


Both vehicles can do equal work at the same rate


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

I know I'm a geek:jester:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

But if you have the same torque and different HP the higher HP will pull the load at a faster rate of top speed.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm just going to get me a couple of Clidesdales


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

hughjazz said:


> I'm pretty sure on the superduties, that the transmission/transfercase is the same for gassers and diesels.
> 
> And the 5.4 with 300hp is better than many big blocks of the past.
> 
> ...


 
There's many who say they would love to have the 460 back in the new F150's but i ain't one of them. The 5.4 when looked at in BHP/liter and TQ/per liter is a pretty hard hitter of an engine even though it's at the end of it's life. The EB is even more so and the boss 6.2 maybe the best truck engine ever in my mind. 

If i lived anything above 6-10k ft elevation then a Turbo diesel would be a great choice for anyone towing. When below these elevations Diesel is in my eyes a waste of money. You pay that massive premium for that engine and the extra cost in fuel, servicing, parts and maintenance and you don't have any worth while gains for the cost involved. 

I have seen 5.4 Triton's with over 400k miles still running and many more in the 200-300k mile range. It's sad to see that engine go for sure but here's hoping the new 5.0 can replace it.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

When I had my dodge/cummins deisel, I went in for a routine service one day at the dealer, and met another fellow getting his servised also.

He was just turning 1,000,000 km. That's right! one million km. Unreal :thumbsup:


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