# curb in tile shower floor.



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

New answer! NO CURB AT ALL!

Yesterdays paper had an article on retirement homes, no curbs. Just jack up the floor a few inches, add a ramp at the entry, extend the toilet flange and you're good to go. Nice clean look too. I'll be doing much more of this from now on. :clap:


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

Over the past several years I have built several roll-in/walk-in curbless showers. They all required ramps because they were remodels. But curbless showers wouldn't have to have a ramp if new construction were to address the concept. As the Baby-Boomers age I'm thinking these showers will become more and more popular.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Bud, I'm thinking of doing it for my own bath, now do for a reno. It's one of those slick ideas that are often overlooked. I'm thinking a fixed panel/sliding door suspended from the ceiling. Done properly, this could be VERY cool.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

Interesting idea.

The LUXOR has something like that. They removed tubs and installed 3X5 showers in their place, smooth transition and the shower floor slopes slightly. The clear glass doors catch the spray and everything goes quickly down the drain.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

That's what I'm thinking! An innovation in shower stalls.

Who gets the patent? :w00t:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Hate to burst your bubbles, but this isn't anything new. It's called 'aging in place' and it's the hot thing - (or at least the media would make it seem like it is - reality dictates different). It's also just another version of ADA compliance curbless showers for the handicapped.

I figured old farts like yourselves would have heard of this already.:laughing:


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

Mike go back a re-read #22.

And be careful who you refer to as "old fart", I resemble that remark.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

MattCoops said:


> two 2x4's are fine for a curb form.
> that "chicken wire" is called a lath
> it acts almost like rebar
> use it to wrap up and over curb, after you have wrapped your waterproof membrane up and over curb


 I always use three 2 X4's because the mud bed will be somewhere around two inches thick at the outer perimeter, and feel that anything less high doesn't leave much curb. I also bevel the last one a full 1/2" on the table saw before installing it, so there is no excuse for the tile setter to provide insufficient slope for drainage. A strong drainage slope is much more important with the popularity of the frameless all glass enclosures, since there is no mechanical sill like with a framed door. If it is going to be a typical framed enclosure, I reduce this slope to 1/4 ", but still don't count on the tile setter to establish it.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

troubleseeker,

why no faith in the tile setter?

Good attention to detail though
It's the little things that add value


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

We specify in the specs for a shower that no 2x4s are to be in the curb, it's just as easy to build it out of mud and eliminates the issues of injecting a weak link of a product that can rot into a basically bullet proof system already. Doesn't really seem to make any sense to put wood in there when you don't have to anyways.


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## Dustball (Jul 7, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> We specify in the specs for a shower that no 2x4s are to be in the curb, it's just as easy to build it out of mud and eliminates the issues of injecting a weak link of a product that can rot into a basically bullet proof system already. Doesn't really seem to make any sense to put wood in there when you don't have to anyways.


How would the 2x4's rot if the liner is wrapped over it anyways?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

You are right, they shouldn't. (In a perfect world they shouldn't) 

Since it takes no more effort to build it with or without 2x4s we want them out. One less thing to worry about is all it is, kind of a why put them in there and add one more thing that could possibly go wrong type of thing if they don't need to be there anyways. The tile setters don't mind, and I believe, we even have one building dept that won't allow them in the curb. I could be wrong on that, but I seem to remember it from awhile back.

We do a lot of goofy things like this, such as siliconing corners under taped thinset over DensShield, we also dab silicone over the fasteners, silicone the gab between the tile underlayment and the tub front, shower front, along the walls the gap between the underlayment and the bottom plate... just stuff like that. That stuff is overkill, but it really amounts to maybe a tube and 20 minutes of time. It's great to do if for no other reason to give you something to talk about to sell your customers on your company.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

If one were to follow the recommendations of the Tile Council of America's Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installation one would see that the use of 2X4's is represented in more than one style of curb construction.

The stacked 2X4's can be covered with a mortar scratchcoat, the 2X4's can be covered with a preformed waterproof curb product, the 2X4's can be covered with any wallboard and then clad with Schluter's waterproof KERDI.

Any official prohibition of the use of 2X4's in a curb would likely be the exclusion of local building departments only. They are however acceptable in all of the UBC Standards.

The use of silicone in junctures of underlayment and behind the scenes should be done with caution. Silicone will stick to anything, however, nothing sticks to silicone. Theoretically silicone would release any thinset or caulk or grout that were to be applied over it, could be troublesome. A latex caulk would be a wiser choice over silicone.:thumbsup:


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

if you are using no bs backerboard screws, you shouldn't need silicone glopped on them anyhow.

The backerboard screws have a coating to protect from rust and corrosion.

Unless your using a nail gun, or worse, staple gun to lazily screw off your backerboard.


Mike,

You don't use lag bolts to screw down your backerboard on walls do you?


P.S.

Bud, 

Thanks for the TCA support. A lot of guys don't even own the handbook. Do you happen to know when the new one comes out? 
I hope TCA does an insert like the floor covering life cost comparison chart in their next issue. It has been a great motivator in estimates.


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## numbknees (Jan 9, 2007)

i generally use a 2x4 on edge
to keep the dam from being too wide
if i want to go higher for whatever reason
i'll add a 1x2


overly wide dams look silly


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## HJ1 (Sep 28, 2006)

MattCoops said:


> if you are using no bs backerboard screws, you shouldn't need silicone glopped on them anyhow.
> 
> The backerboard screws have a coating to protect from rust and corrosion.
> 
> ...


MattCoops

This thread is about curbs. Where are you using the backerboard and screws? Over the Curb? God I hope not.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Quick question on the subject of curbs, what are you guys doing for radius curbs? Forms only or still using wood in them with angled joints?


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> This thread is about curbs. Where are you using the backerboard and screws? Over the Curb? God I hope not.


Backerboard with screws or nails is perfectly acceptable when using the KERDI System.

Radius curbs can be formed but I would rather (in most cases) use cement bricks to create the base for the radius then hand dress with mortar. This is also an application where KERDI and (more-so) liquid waterproofing come in very handy. Fortunately radii curbs aren't in fashion around here just yet hell everybody is Republican.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> COOP: "Thanks for the TCA support. A lot of guys don't even own the handbook. Do you happen to know when the new one comes out?"


I've been told the new Handbook will be out the end of April maybe a little sooner. They are revamping some of the illustrations apparently.:thumbsup:


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## HJ1 (Sep 28, 2006)

I wasn't thinking about kerdi. Guess I should have given Matt the benefit of the doubt.


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