# You can break a screw but not a nail?



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

NYgutterguy said:


> Couldn't agree more. The hidden hangers we use to install gutters use a 3" screw. Last year i saw tons of them coming down due to the screw shearing from the ice load. We use to use a long nail or spike back in the day and not once did I see them shear off from too much weight


I've never seen one of those long spikes shear off either, but every one I've ever seen was loose and the gutters were not tight to the facsia any longer.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

No doubt especially when they were put into 1x6 pine facia. Back in the day that was the standard and usually still get 25-30 years out of them . I call it job security 👍


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Then people will argue screws vs nails for house framing.. Most connections in house framing are subject to shear forces.. not withdrawal... I can't stand people who screw framing.:whistling


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

FramingPro said:


> Then people will argue screws vs nails for house framing.. Most connections in house framing are subject to shear forces.. not withdrawal... I can't stand people who screw framing.:whistling


We screw a lot of framing elements in remodeling. Sometimes just tack with screws and then nail after its held tight. But we are using Spax or GRK not just deck acrews or drywall screws.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I've been surprised a few times what people do with nails and it still stands after 100 years.


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## Knight-Builder (Feb 19, 2015)

The only thing we tend to screw in framing is noggins. There's just something about swinging a framing hammer I don't want to give up (of course, forty years from now I'll wish I'd have done otherwise).


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

FramingPro said:


> Then people will argue screws vs nails for house framing.. Most connections in house framing are subject to shear forces.. not withdrawal... I can't stand people who screw framing.:whistling


For the most part it doesn't really bother me. There are certain applications where you could argue a screw is preferable (mostly remodeling, as Eric mentioned). Let's be honest. Take an inside wall. There's going to be absolutely zero difference from a wall that was screwed together vs a wall that was nailed together, other than the screwed wall took longer to build.

What I can't stand is the people who screw framing together and try and sell it as superior to nailing. That's just complete nonsense.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I'd have to put Timberloks and Ledgerloks in a slightly different category. They'll actually bend quite a bit before breaking (I assume they're case hardened, like Railman was talking about). I've pulled framing members on an old house back together when the rafter and ledger nails had pulled most of the way out - I couldn't do that with nails. Shear specs on them are pretty good.


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## Gaboy (Mar 30, 2014)

IMO...screws hold crap together better/tighter they don't have the shear strength of a framing nail but try an rip off a board that's screwed to another vs a board that's nailed another with just a hammer....screws are superior in small light framing an/or other situations ...aka 3" deckmate


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

NYgutterguy said:


> Couldn't agree more. The hidden hangers we use to install gutters use a 3" screw. Last year i saw tons of them coming down due to the screw shearing from the ice load. We use to use a long nail or spike back in the day and not once did I see them shear off from too much weight


That's strange actually, I use screw type religiously at 2ft centers and if I happen to get failure, it's usually the front lip of the hanger rolling over first. Rarely have I seen a sheered gutter screw.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

superseal said:


> That's strange actually, I use screw type religiously at 2ft centers and if I happen to get failure, it's usually the front lip of the hanger rolling over first. Rarely have I seen a sheered gutter screw.



Most of the sheering I saw 2 winters ago were with the 6" gutters actually with the quick screw hangers . They handle twice the volume but also hold twice the amount of ice with pretty much the same screw thickness as the 5" hanger. The front lip unfolding I see during the snow slides from slate or metal roofs. We actually switched to a better hanger and screw because of this. Didn't see any from this past winter really.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

Gaboy said:


> IMO...screws hold crap together better/tighter they don't have the shear strength of a framing nail but try an rip off a board that's screwed to another vs a board that's nailed another with just a hammer....screws are superior in small light framing an/or other situations ...aka 3" deckmate


This is true. Screws are superior in pull out strength. 

However, they are inferior for sheer strength.

http://cnx.org/contents/[email protected]/Elasticity:_Stress_and_Strain

I like their example of bones- such as your femur bone. 

its one of the strongest bones in your body, yet you hear of people fracturing them all the time- most of the time it is not from elastic or comprehensive forces-, but from sideways forces, which cause sheering. 

Lag bolts/specialized screws, etc can mimic the qualities of nails, but the materials of nails do have a certain innate advantage, especially when it comes to momentary shock loads. There's very little elasticity in screws (even in automotive applications, the head bolts are torque to stretch- one time use). Head studs on the other hand are reusable. Again, just depends on the load applications.

Drywall screws for general construction is a no no. It isn't any faster, nor any more secure than using the proper fastening methods.


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