# Quality vs Quantity..how much speed is important'?



## Snickare85 (Jan 15, 2014)

Hi guys,
i have just a curiosity,i know that speed in the work is quite important,because i know that is not only important do the things in the right way ,but also with speed,without fumbling around,expecially if you own a business,how you guys react if someone in your crew is slow but accurate?and another totally different question,i know guys there you use to carry all your tools in the toolbelt,perfect for a carpenter,but i read more than one time that some of you had tools stolen,it is a problem there on the jobsite?here usually is the contractor that provide the tools to the crew,at least the most important,so i never heard about tools stolen..thank you!

here i put the picture of my toolbox anyway..it is probably heavier of a toolbelt..!


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## BrentD (Nov 22, 2013)

I have been lucky that my tools haven't been stolen from a job site. I usually do not leave my stuff at residential sites if it is a new build or the home owner isn't living there during the renovation. Big lock boxes on commercial sites are nice but only if you are there for awhile.

I use a tool belt but only carry tools I need for the job I'm doing. If I had all my tool in there would not be able to walk. I don't wear one when putting kitchen cabinets in because you have a tendency to bump cabinets with it and scratch doors, panels, etc. Belts are best for big jobs where you are all over the place and on ladders and need lots of fasteners like framing, boarding drywall, duct work, etc


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

Always took my tools home with me. On big multifamily sites, some guys left their toolbelts in the drop box. I always took mine with me. Didn't trust the other guys.

I learned when I was out banging nails, that I was slow. I would never be as fast as some of the other guys. I was better at other things, but I just never picked up the speed. When they want production guys, they want production guys. I couldn't make it in the market, so I moved on.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

speed isn't natural, its acquired through effort. always try to be faster and you eventually will be. I remember when I started as a helper being floored by how fast the framers could do everything. now I'm as fast or faster.


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## Boda (Jan 18, 2013)

Speed comes with knowledge and time.

I would rather have a slower guy that does work correctly than a fast guy who messes up all the time. In the end that faster guy will cost you more.

However, there is a line. If the slower guy does not start to pick up speed after a while or shows no drive to, then you have to find a niche he can fill or let him go.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

yeah you need a mix of speed and accuracy. had a guy work for us a few months ago who thought he was hot **** and bragged about how fast he worked. after sheeting the deck I had to go back and re-nail most of it cause he put 4-5 nails per joist and completely missed several seams. after sheeting the walls I had to go back over everything cause he didn't double nail the corners or window openings, etc. he doesn't work for us anymore.


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## Snickare85 (Jan 15, 2014)

thanks all of you for the answer guys,i think it is a pretty interesting discussion,at least for me,from the other side of the pond,i have been always curious how it works in US and Canada,about accuracy..a question..i know that you guys work with the imperial system,here in Europe the metric system is the most used,do you guys prefer the imperial or the metric?if tomorrow your system would change,do you think it will be difficult for you work fast like before and understand the measure?i'm able roughly to understand the metric system,some old carpenter in sweden still talk about "tum"(thumb)so they actually use the imperial system,but not many understand it anymore,i would have for sure problem to pass from metric to imperial,i think the metric system is more accurate and easy to understand and to count..what is your idea about it?


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

i'd obviously have to switch to a metric tape and speed square, and I'm sure there would be an adjustment period. it'd probably be tough.


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## Snickare85 (Jan 15, 2014)

asgoodasdead said:


> i'd obviously have to switch to a metric tape and speed square, and I'm sure there would be an adjustment period. it'd probably be tough.


it is probably true,i think in Canada they use both..i have an american speed square,with the pitches,but i actually use only the angle part..here the pitch system is not used..they talk only about angles..and anyway i'm not a framer so i can't go so deep in to the topic,i also see that they made a nice framing square in metric..i think is invented by the timber framer Steve Chappel..


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## Boda (Jan 18, 2013)

I speak the language of feet and inches, have for half my life. It would be a tough transition. It would be like learning a new language.


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## Exlud (Jun 23, 2013)

The imperial system isn't any less accurate, I think it is just more error prone due to way the units are divided. Twelve inches to a foot, but each inch is probably divided into sixteenths in the field and thirty seconds or sixty fourths in the shop.
Don't even get me started on someone calling out "thirty four and seven..." Seven what? 
It adds even more chance for error if you work in a shop environment. For instance, say I'm making rails and stiles for some doors. I want them to finish at 1 1/2". The cores are glued and veneered with 3/32" material on either side. So far so good, a bit of math tells me that the core needs to be 1 5/16". So I glue up the cores, resaw the veneers, go to the sander, and...have to convert my measurements to decimal. So now it's 1.3125" and .09375". None of this is rocket science, but it adds a chance for error. The conversions start to become intuitive through repetition, but still, mistakes can be made.
If that was metric, I'd probably have a 38mm finish thickness, a 34mm core, and 2mm veneers. I'd need a new counter on the wide belt, but there would be no conversion.
It's a similar scenario with the straight line rip, you have to convert the fractions before you enter the widths. Ditto with the the moulder. Ditto with the upcut saw.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

I teach my guys how to be efficient, not fast. Fast often leads to sloppy work & and can be dangerous. That's a lose/lose in my opinion.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I teach precision first, and then speed. The guys who learn speed first, will always be fast, but never precise. Speed will come naturally with experience and drive. I totally agree with Centerline about efficiency. I teach that mostly with my actions. Don't walk towards the dumpster empty handed, pick up lumber from the end of the pile closest to the house, don't pick things up twice, think ahead, etc.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Boda said:


> I speak the language of feet and inches, have for half my life. It would be a tough transition. It would be like learning a new language.




It is easier then you think. It's all based on 10s do everything is easy to subtract, add, multiply or divide. Most people think it would be hard because learning the imperial system sucked in comparison


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

I've had some "fast" workers cost me a lot of money. How fast are you when everything you touch needs to be redone? The guys who are hung up on how "fast" they are and how must "faster" than everyone else they are annoy me to no end.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> It is easier then you think. It's all based on 10s do everything is easy to subtract, add, multiply or divide. Most people think it would be hard because learning the imperial system sucked in comparison


So true....how the heck are we not standardized on the metric system yet?


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## BrentD (Nov 22, 2013)

I can do both and have a lot of standard conversions memorized. I wish it was easier to find just metric tapes. The imperial/metric tapes are such a pain in the butt. I think Lee Valley has them, I will have to check it out.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I still like the old gunslinger's line "Take your time quickly."


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## Bearded Wonder (Jan 21, 2011)

Are 4x8 sheets of material a different size in country's that use metric? Are ceiling heights a nice round metric number, but different than 8 feet? Is framing lumber to different dimensions, like do you order 2 or 3 meter lengths of 2x4's? Is 2x lumber 1 1/2" thick? 

I remember even as a kid learning feet and inches and then learning metric in school when the teachers told us how metric would be the standard in America in a few years, thinking "yeah, good luck with that." 

I've always been able to be plenty precise with 16th's of an inch, so I don't see that marks on the tape closer together would be any real help, and I'd have to squint more to see them. 

It's probably just whatever you grew up with. I'm sticking with feet and inches...


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ClaytonR said:


> Are 4x8 sheets of material a different size in country's that use metric? Are ceiling heights a nice round metric number, but different than 8 feet? Is framing lumber to different dimensions, like do you order 2 or 3 meter lengths of 2x4's? Is 2x lumber 1 1/2" thick? I remember even as a kid learning feet and inches and then learning metric in school when the teachers told us how metric would be the standard in America in a few years, thinking "yeah, good luck with that." I've always been able to be plenty precise with 16th's of an inch, so I don't see that marks on the tape closer together would be any real help, and I'd have to squint more to see them. It's probably just whatever you grew up with. I'm sticking with feet and inches...


It comes in same sizes but its just in metric. People still say 8x4 sheets but they are advertised as 2440x1220 same goes for lumber. For plumbing I used metric for copper and imperial for PVC even though the PVC was in metric sizes.


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