# Workman's Comp. Audit



## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

I am getting audited for Workman's compensation and had a few questions. The time period in question is when I had employees and a crew (yes I had a comp. insurance policy for this period). Now I am just a solo operation and sub everything out. 

I am getting ready for my audit but would like any advice from people who have gone through similar situations. Hopefully some advice will keep me from a shotgun blast after the fact.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I've never gone through one, but it has always seemed pretty clear that you need to have copies of proof of workmen's comp from your subs or you can end up paying retroactively for them if they were't covered. You might scramble and gather that paperwork from them if you don't have it on file already. Naturally, if any of your subs are one-man shows, the owner doesn't need comp on himself.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Was this triggered by something? An old employee trying to collect comp. or unemployment. I don't know what Florida law is, but we had a problem years ago where the State had to determine the status of a worker, was he an employee or an independent contractor, it was a pain in the ass, they were asking all types of questions about whose tools and vehicle he used, etc. It worked out okay, but I would say if you have anything you're unsure of or if this was triggered by an old "employee" or sub I'd contact an attorney. If nothing triggered the audit it might just be a random, routine audit and nothing to worry about, I'd ask first.

.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I get audited every single year from both my WC carrier and my GL carrier.

Only provide them with the information that they ask for and nothing else.

I prefer to have them meet at my accountants office and let him handle it. They speak the same language. It goes away quickly.

Last year, after my audit, I was assessed an additional $ 6,000.00 for the year being audited, plus an assumed $ 6,000.00 for the current year, based on the previous years records. This has happened before too.

If I am under the targeted amount for this year, I will get a rebate or I may choose to apply the amount to the next years fees.

Ed


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## skylands (Dec 10, 2005)

Not sure if Fla. is the same as NY but we get audited every year. That's what determines the rate for the upcoming year.

Up here we need;

Payroll journal,

Quarterly reports,

General Ledger,

Insurance certs from ALL your subs including their W/C. If the sub doesn't have W/C then the auditor could assess you for the amount you paid them.

Nothing to worry about as long as your paperwork is in order. Good Luck


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## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

It is being triggered because I stopped my WC insurance. Does not make sense when I am the only person working in my company and I let go everyone else. 

With the slow down in construction I am happy that the reserves are going to keep me busy for a while. Great for filling in the in between times.


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> if any of your subs are one-man shows, the owner doesn't need comp on himself.


I just went thru a 2 year battle with swif and the attorney general over this , they tried to call a 1 man company in business for 30 years an employee, There is a test/questioneer weather they are subs or not . I won :thumbsup: but after all the hassle my advice is if you use a 1 man shop if they arent incorporated or a llc dont use them.
This is unfair to sole propritorships and another example of how screwed up the commonwealth is,If there was a waiver to sign all this bs could have been avoided.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

airborneSGT said:


> I am getting audited for Workman's compensation and had a few questions. The time period in question is when I had employees and a crew (yes I had a comp. insurance policy for this period). Now I am just a solo operation and sub everything out.
> 
> I am getting ready for my audit but would like any advice from people who have gone through similar situations. Hopefully some advice will keep me from a shotgun blast after the fact.


*First, know what you're required to do under your state's law...*
Here is a helpful link for information regarding what is expected of you from Florida's point of view. Pay close attention to the exemption requirements. 

http://www.fldfs.com/wc/keycoverage.html

*All subcontractors must provide you with some paperwork regarding their status of coverage. *
_ "An employer in the construction industry shall require any sub-contractor who sub-contracts work from an employer to provide evidence of Florida workers’ compensation insurance. If the sub-contractor has a valid exemption, then the sub-contractor shall also provide a copy of his or her certificate of exemption to the employer  440.10 (c)."_

If they have not, *you *will be billed for coverage for these folks at the rate the auditor decides.

Florida is an NCCI state, so you'll be audited under those rules.

*Next, gather the stuff you will be required to provide during the audit...*
You need to have a list of your subcontractors (ask your CPA for a list of your 1099 MISC recipients) for the period in question. This list should show how much you paid them for their services (material and labor). You *will *pay W/C insurance on the material costs passed on to you from these folks per NCCI rules. This is one of the hundreds of good reasons to stay on top of certificates of insurance from subs.

*Call your subs now and get what they have sent to you ASAP...*
You need copies of their certificates or waivers for the periods of time in which your W/C policy was in effect and your subs did work for you. If you can't show coverage for that time, then the auditor may decide it didn't exist and show you owe premiums for it.

Bear in mind, when you paid for W/C insurance at the start of your policy period, it was an *estimated premium* only. Now is when they get down to the *actual costs*, via the premium audit.

*Gather up your payroll records...*
If you had employees during the policy period, then you'll need payroll records showing withholding information paid to the state/feds for that time. 

Also, you'll need payroll records showing how many hours were worked at different jobs that have different classifications. Otherwise, your employees will be put into the highest risk job classification they performed during that time. 

That means if they mostly did interior trim, but then did 3 roof jobs, and you can't show payroll records where the actual time doing these two different jobs was recorded, then you will pay premiums for all of of the wages paid to them as if they were full time roofers. You also need to show what amount of wages was overtime, as opposed to regular pay, or you will wind up paying for overtime wages at the overtime pay rate. NCCI rules allow for premiums to be calculated at the normal pay rate for overtime wages.

* Gather up your business formation records...*
If you are a corporation, or an LLC or LLP, then you must show where your executive officers are listed in your business formation paperwork. Under NCCI rules, the owners wages are usually exempted.

*Plan for next year now...*
As you can see, this is a complicated area. I'm not sure, but it seems you will be required to have W/C insurance, even if you exempt yourself.

"_*An employer engaged in the construction industry that employs one or more part or full time employees* or an employer in the non-construction industry that employs 4 or more part or full time employees *must have Florida workers’ compensation insurance. Employee includes: Corporate officers, and for construction industry employers, limited liability company members  440.02(9), sole proprietors, and partners.* Corporate officers, which for construction industry employers, include s a member of a limited liability company are eligible to elect to be exempt from the provisions of Chapter 440._"

Check with an attorney that is licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction and is familiar with Florida W/C law to be sure and to get help to draft a subcontractor agreement that will require W/C and G/L coverage, as well as control who is allowed on your job site. I also recommend that you put something in there that says you will pay the first 40% of what you owe them without the certificate (if they say they have the insurance, if they don't, don't hire them) but the last 60% won't be paid until you have that certificate. Its getting really hard-assed, but just wait until you get done with this audit and decide just how cold-blooded it really is. 

We have a good article on the basics of W/C insurance here, but it barely scratches the surface of this complicated subject.

GL and let us know how your premium audit turns out. Oh, and you can contact your auditor and let them know you need more time to prepare. They know its a complicated process and most are good folks to work with, just stubborn about doing their jobs well. They are paid by the insurance companies after all.


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## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

In FL you can not legally operate as a contractor sole proprietor if I am not mistaken. One man shops are still required to get a workman's comp exemption. This is something I do have already and required any of my small sub-contractors to provide this or comp. insurance. Bottom line is I did everything legally the right way and it cost me more than I made. So much for doing the right thing. 

I got ripped off on GL and Comp. insurance and only found out after my second year. I consider it a costly learning curve. Now I just keep things simple. I would rather be a small time operation without all the headaches. When I can get into larger government and commercial contracts I will worry again about doing things the right way and incorporate that into my cost more effectively. 

Its quite like professional racing; try to get away with as much as possible and only stop when you are caught. After seeing so many illegal practices of other much larger contractors it made me questions why I had ethics at all in business.


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## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

Double-A, 

Thanks for the heads up. I have done most but not all of that and am very aware of my state laws. Following my state laws and doing things the right way is what cost me more than anything else. I learned quickly you have to bend slightly to make money in this business.


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## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

Yes I am going to see if I can get more time. After all I will be gone for who knows how long doing my reserve thing here shortly. Would rather be slightly more prepared. The last person who was going to do it and who I had planned on quit!


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> I've never gone through one, but it has always seemed pretty clear that you need to have copies of proof of workmen's comp from your subs or you can end up paying retroactively for them if they were't covered. You might scramble and gather that paperwork from them if you don't have it on file already. Naturally, if any of your subs are one-man shows, the owner doesn't need comp on himself.


But, you still may need it for the company. Don't fool yourselves folks. If you're a one-man show, check with your state as to the requirements for having this insurance. Then check with an attorney to get their opinion. Do not trust what you're being told by others in your area, they might be just as confused as you are by all this.

Requirements vary from state to state. Don't assume you don't need W/C insurance because you're a one man show, _especially if you hire casual employees or subcontractors_. You are still required to have it in many states. Do your homework and find out what *your state* requires.

Pennsylvania, along with Delaware are unique in the way their classification systems work. One very glaring difference is that the premium portion of overtime pay is not excluded when figuring W/C premiums. That means you pay your W/C at the overtime rate for overtime pay. In an NCCI state, you would not necessarily do that.

As you can see, in Florida, you still must have it under most circumstances if you work in the construction industry. One-man show, or not.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

airborneSGT said:


> Bottom line is I did everything legally the right way and it cost me more than I made. So much for doing the right thing.
> 
> I got ripped off on GL and Comp. insurance and only found out after my second year. I consider it a costly learning curve. Now I just keep things simple. I would rather be a small time operation without all the headaches.
> 
> Its quite like professional racing; try to get away with as much as possible and only stop when you are caught. After seeing so many illegal practices of other much larger contractors it made me questions why I had ethics at all in business.


Sounds like you got some bad advice somewhere down the line. When you decide to get back to the W/C and G/L, you should interview your agent and his company as well or better than you do your prospective employees. If you can't trust what they are telling you and doing on your behalf, then don't do business with them.

You might take a look at this post for some ideas on how to "interview" your agent.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Yes, doing "legititmate" business is now very expensive and costly. Only those contractors who are using illegals, hold no licences, or buy no insurance, etc... are proud of themselves making much more $$ than other .... while other legit contractors still sufffers the stiff competition with low-ballers.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

I can't speak for Florida but in NY a sole prop. can skip the policy on a waiver. BUT, if I use him as a sub I can expect to pick up the tab on him based on the amount of work he did for our company. Anyone that receives a check from us and can't produce a certificate is required to be covered. We have to be careful with the records when purchasing tools and vehicles from individuals.

We get audited every year for both the WC and GL ins. Really a piece of cake if your prepared. Especially if your accountant handles it. Ours gets the next one.

Good Luck
Dave


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

my accountant does mine every year, never did it myself, never would


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## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

The best way to get yourself or a small shop insured through WC is to lease yourself to yourself. It sounds unusual but its allowed here in FL. There are ways your state can fine you very hefty if you are either not covered with W/C, do not have an exemption, or are using 1099's as employees. 

Doube-A

Yes I count the mistakes I made my first year as experience and hard learned lessons. In many ways the initial model I setup was more fitting for a farmer speculating on crops to be grown. I am now more of the on demand or as needed business model. Much lower overhead and still able to operate legally and effectively. 

In the state of FL if you hire sub-contractors without the proper W/C insurance the GC is responsible by default for their costs. This goes likewise for under insured or un-insured. There is no way to dodge to bullet in FL if you are the prime contractor or GC for any particular project. I am sure many states follow suite.


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## kauser667 (Apr 10, 2007)

Had a random audit in 2007. (Ohio) What a pain in [email protected]##! They treated us like criminals. I will never be so helpful again....I will give them the info they need per the paper work, give them a cup of coffee and be on my way. Nor will I have my accountant available at the office.(Which I did in 2007) They just kept pushing and asked for more info. Funny thing happened in the end, they owed me a credit:laughing:


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

kauser667 said:


> Had a random audit in 2007. (Ohio) What a pain in [email protected]##! They treated us like criminals. I will never be so helpful again....
> 
> *I will give them the info they need per the paper work,* give them a cup of coffee and be on my way.
> 
> *Nor will I have my accountant available at the office.*(Which I did in 2007) They just kept pushing and asked for more info. Funny thing happened in the end, they owed me a credit


That is precisely why you supply only what is requested and have the audit take place at your accountans location. For smaller contractors, just a communication via fax with the accountant will do.

Ed


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## BC Maryland (Mar 11, 2008)

*insurance*

I have found it easiest to have a seperate bank account for your payroll so I can have all the checks written in a bank statement that the auditior can see. Second I will have my 941 federal returns on hand as back up if asked. And as for 1099s and subs If they dont have certificates for you prepare to pay for coverage on them. Most Workers Comp companies will adjust your premium when they see your last 2 quarters of your federal 941s. So if your company is slowing down you can adjust.


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## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

I like the less is more information. This is turning into a real informative thread. Please feel free to chime in. I will let you know how my little date with destiny goes. I should have this guy meet me out during a field FTX.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

We go through audits annually, and sometimes every 6 months if something big has changed, like the number of employees.

The auditors that have come out to see us ask for a minimum of information and don't look for problems beyond establishing that we're playing fair and by the rules. If they smell a fish, they go fishing. If they don't, they don't. Holding the meeting at your accountant sounds like a great idea until they tell you they need more information that isn't at your accountant's office and they can't finish the audit until they get it.

Ask them what they want to see. They will tell you what they need. They want to wrap up the audit asap, not screw around fishing for maybes. The more audits they get complete properly, the more money they make. Don't waste their time or tick them off. Life can get miserable quick.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

a WC audit is standard fair. You paid a fee based on a projected amount of employment dollars-if it turns out you paid out more them you owe more, less then you get a rebate as Ed said. Fill out the paperwork and send it back. If you're using quickbooks (or similar), run a report for the expected dates. If you're not included in the WC policy (as well as the subs), then don't include them. Laws vary state to state.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

I've done one every year since 1979. I provide a computer printout of the information they need, document the type of work done on each check, and give copies of the certificates of insurance from every sub.

After you've done a couple it's pretty straight forward. Having everything ready ahead of time makes it relatively painless.


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## eagleandbaby (Oct 13, 2007)

Ed the Roofer said:


> I get audited every single year from both my WC carrier and my GL carrier.
> 
> Only provide them with the information that they ask for and nothing else.
> 
> ...


I agree. We got audited every year when we started. I want to say, sadly, the type of audit you will get depends on the individual auditor. At least that is the case here. The first several years we had a nice lady that came out and looked at our payroll books then left. Very quick. Then we got this guy who spent hours going over all of our books. He had a very bad attitude. He came at it like we were trying to cheat someone from the start. Very frustrating.


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## Pener (Mar 30, 2008)

airborneSGT said:


> In FL you can not legally operate as a contractor sole proprietor if I am not mistaken. One man shops are still required to get a workman's comp exemption. This is something I do have already and required any of my small sub-contractors to provide this or comp. insurance.


don't want to sound like an ass, but I would expect CGC contractor to know all these details. I guess those construction schools instead of the knowledge just teach you how to pass the exam nowadays 

anyway, in FL you can be a contractor under any type of business. the owners (whether one 1 man shop or not) can get exemption from WC (30 day state wait time) but only if they incorporate or are LLC. they still have to carry WC for their workers though, and as a prime contractor you would have to pick the tab if they don't (I don't know whether you would be actually billed for your uninsured subs' employees if you can show copy of their exemption or the responsibilty only applies in case of the accident).

you're right, it's an extra responsibilty for prime contractor, but you hold un upper hand since you're the one that gets paid (first)

I'm not sure what did you mean by saying one can lease himself. I'm assuming you were talking about the employee "leasing"

good luck with the audit. hope they will go easy on you :thumbsup:


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## Ranger Rohland (Jan 28, 2005)

airborneSGT said:


> After seeing so many illegal practices of other much larger contractors it made me questions why I had ethics at all in business.



Sup SARGE!

First and foremost I want to thank you for your service. 
I appreciate you as do millions of others. You're a fine American in my book. Thank you.:thumbup:

Second; The reason I have ethics is because of my CHARACTER.

CHARACTER is doing what's right when nobody's looking.

I don't care about the other's and their many illegal practices. That has no bearing on my case.

Frankly, I'm surprised it has a bearing on yours. Never mind what someone else is doing. 
Continue walking that straight line. 
Stay focused on the TASK AT HAND. 
DRIVE ON AND COMPLETE THE MISSION.

It will pay big dividends in the long run. Not only in business but life as well.

HOOAH


Tom Rohland, Jr.

A 1/75th Ranger Battalion
1977-1979



If I may refresh your memory:

A PARACHUTIST'S CREED​
I volunteered as a parachutist, fully realizing the hazard of my chosen service and by my thoughts and actions will always uphold the prestige, honor and high esprit-de-corps of parachute troops.​
I realize that a parachutist is not merely a soldier who arrives by parachute to fight, but is an elite shock trooper and that his country expects him to march farther and faster, to fight harder, to be more self-reliant than any other soldier. Parachutists of all allied armies belong to this great brotherhood.

I shall never fail my fellow comrades by shirking any duty or training, but will always keep myself mentally and physically fit and shoulder my full share of the task, whatever it may be.

I shall always accord my superiors fullest loyalty and I will always bear in mind the sacred trust I have in the lives of the men I will accompany into battle.

I shall show other soldiers by my military courtesy, neatness of dress and care of my weapons and equipment that I am a picked and well trained soldier.

I shall endeavor always to reflect the high standards of training and morale of parachute troops.

I shall respect the abilities of my enemies, I will fight fairly and with all my might, surrender is not in my creed.

I shall display a high degree of initiative and will fight on to my objective and mission, though I be the lone survivor.

I shall prove my ability as a fighting man against the enemy on the field of battle, not by quarreling with my comrades in arms or by bragging about my deeds.

I shall always realize that battles are won by an army fighting as a team, that I fight first and blaze the path into battle for others to follow and to carry the battle on.

I belong to the finest unit in the world. By my actions and deeds alone, I speak for my fighting ability. I will strive to uphold the honor and prestige of my outfit, making my country proud of me and the unit to which I belong.
:thumbsup:


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## Ranger Rohland (Jan 28, 2005)

airborneSGT said:


> Following my state laws and doing things the right way is what cost me more than anything else. I learned quickly you have to bend slightly to make money in this business.




ATTITUDE CHECK!

Drop and give me 10, SARGE.:whistling


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## Sarah9910 (Sep 27, 2004)

I have always been sure that the day the auditor arrives I have good donuts in the office. And all the paperwork in order so they can come in, do their job and leave quickly. I agree, it has a alot to do with the auditors personalty, unfortunate but true.


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## airborneSGT (Feb 19, 2007)

Tom,

I went to RIP back in 2001. Didn't make it and man did I regret that the rest of my career. Yeah I think I was more venting my frustration more than anything else. Thats cool you were in battalion back in the day. When I got back from Iraq in 04' I had a year left on my contract and they wouldn't let me go to Ranger school.

Fast forward after I got out I went in the IRR. After a couple years I got the bug and volunteered for the reserves. This time I went engineer but I think I want to try out for 20th group. 

Thats a big roger on driving on. Hey if Joe ain't complaining then he ain't training! 

82ND Airborne
B. Co. 2-505 PIR 2001-2005 
1 Para UK 2002 RUE
OEF 2003
OIF 2004

HSC 841ST Engineer Battalion 2008- Current 

We will see what happens with 20th group. I think I would have a lot of fun doing that but the training will take a year away from me doing business essentially. In the long run I would like to go Chaplain. I would be one high speed chappy already with airborne wings and a CIB. However with that long tab I would be super high speed. 

After a quick azimuth check I am back on track everyone.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

airborneSGT said:


> After a quick azimuth check I am back on track everyone.


Good to hear.


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## MWINE (Oct 17, 2007)

*NO more audits*

Ohh I remember the days of getting audited every single f#@$ing year. I lease my employees now. The company I'm with bundles work comp, GL, and payroll all in one so I make one payment not 3. It's not only pay as you go with no down payments but there are NO AUDITS EVER AGAIN!!! YAY!! They calculate my comp and GL exactly with the hours my guys work and not a penny more. I had a stand alone policy before like yours where they would guess at my payroll for the next year and charge me for that. My agent is Mike 727-953-5913 and the company is Construction Leasing Professionals.


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## GSE (Aug 24, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> I've never gone through one, but it has always seemed pretty clear that you need to have copies of proof of workmen's comp from your subs or you can end up paying retroactively for them if they were't covered. You might scramble and gather that paperwork from them if you don't have it on file already. Naturally, if any of your subs are one-man shows, the owner doesn't need comp on himself.


One of the sad things about working with subs that don't have WC, they may not be required to have it, but that leaves the GC to come up with the money for alll the non covered hours the sub worked, there is always someone truying to beat the syatem, pay now or pay later.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

We have annual GL & WC audits, but it's been awhile since we have had face to face audits. We get paperwork from them every year, accountant fills it out, sends it back, adjustments are made. If thier are no discrepencies its done for another year...very easy.

I might add I do quarterly in-house audits myself though & it really helps me stay on top of things & catch anything before it hits the fan.


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## themudman (May 11, 2008)

when I first hired , and got a workmens comp policy, I really didn't know what my payroll was going to be. No problem they said we will just estimate it, then audit you at the end of the year.Well they did and I ended up oweing 11000.00. I was prepared for that but what I was'nt prepared for was a bill for 22000.00. which is what I got.they said oh you have to prepay for the coming year. I could'nt come up with it. so of course they canceled me.That was back in 1988 and now I run my employees through a staffing agency. I can interview my self and then send them over there to sign up. The agency takes care of all payroll taxes and insurances.I just write them a ck for the hourly rate plus 48%. not bad since workmens comp alone is 20.00 per hundred in my profession.


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## moviml8 (May 12, 2007)

*MWINE is a Salesman?*



MWINE said:


> Ohh I remember the days of getting audited every single f#@$ing year. I lease my employees now. The company I'm with bundles work comp, GL, and payroll all in one so I make one payment not 3. It's not only pay as you go with no down payments but there are NO AUDITS EVER AGAIN!!! YAY!! They calculate my comp and GL exactly with the hours my guys work and not a penny more. I had a stand alone policy before like yours where they would guess at my payroll for the next year and charge me for that. My agent is Mike 727-953-5913 and the company is Construction Leasing Professionals.


MWINE...err after reading a few of your "helpful" posts here, they all sound the same. I mean your posts sound more like a salesman for thois company you are so prourd to promote and less of a contractor.

Are you a licensed builder in Florida?


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## qdslse (Apr 24, 2008)

DavidC said:


> I can't speak for Florida but in NY a sole prop. can skip the policy on a waiver. BUT, if I use him as a sub I can expect to pick up the tab on him based on the amount of work he did for our company. Anyone that receives a check from us and can't produce a certificate is required to be covered. We have to be careful with the records when purchasing tools and vehicles from individuals.
> 
> We get audited every year for both the WC and GL ins. Really a piece of cake if your prepared. Especially if your accountant handles it. Ours gets the next one.


I agree with David completely. In Illinois I get audited each year. If my subs have GL and WC it costs me nothing. If they don't I pay a set $ amount per $100.00 of their earnings, which is figured in all year. No surprises.

I am encourgaing subs to get WC this yr (all have GL) since it makes it easier in the long run. You can get a WC policy and opt your self out. This way if you are a sole prop or all subs have WC & GL these funds come back to you at the end of the yr.

You just have to know what is required by law in your state and comply. Even though it may be a bit pricy, but in the long run you'll sleep better and not be buying any tylenol at the end of the year!


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Although a pain in the butt, these small steps, like buying and keeping GL and WC, separate the players from the wanna-bees.

There is no doubt that these are important to 'looking out for number one', but so many dinguses assume its OK to just ignore what they know to be the right thing, hoping that the GC in their life will just look past them not having what is required by their local jurisdiction to be legal.

GC's are an easy date when it comes to compliance, most of the time. They will pay anyone for doing the job in a pinch, as long as the price is right. But finding the ones that will stand by you in good times and bad is like finding your soul mate.

They are far and few between. So, set yourself up for a professional relationship and don't be silly with your talents. Get the insurance you know you have to have to be in the running and quit hooking up with the idiots that just want you to do it fast and cheap and then don't call for two or three months. 

Respect yourself and others will respect you as well.


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## CFO (Dec 4, 2007)

Double-A said:


> Although a pain in the butt, these small steps, like buying and keeping GL and WC, separate the players from the wanna-bees.
> 
> There is no doubt that these are important to 'looking out for number one', but so many dinguses assume its OK to just ignore what they know to be the right thing, hoping that the GC in their life will just look past them not having what is required by their local jurisdiction to be legal.
> 
> ...


 
I can't agree more with Double A (Arn Anderson?) here and can't agree less with (_Following my state laws and doing things the right way is what cost me more than anything else. I learned quickly you have to bend slightly to make money in this business_).. Our company has been by the book for 10 years.. We do our WC audit every year with our insurance company.. Every year we 'shop' new insurance just to may sure our insurance company isn't getting comfortable (although we rarely change).. Our WC rates are super low now (6.75/100 for Plumbers).. We take advantage of progressive credits like FCCPAP (Florida Contracting Classification Premium Adjustment Program, which can go back 3 years if your company is in Florida and isn't aware of it)..

Sure we could of made some more money back a couple years ago (when builders were desperate and only cared about how many houses they could build) by cutting corners.. Instead, we did the right things, and now we are reaping the benefits of it, as our builders drop the 'shady' guys.. It's all about perception and if your builders see that you respect your company and respect the laws of the industry, then they will respect you..


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

CFO said:


> I can't agree more with Double A (Arn Anderson


Nope, sorry. I am not he.


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## MWINE (Oct 17, 2007)

*moviml8*

moviml8 I am a licensed contractor here in Florida, lately I have been doing mostly pool remodels and pavers. I have posted quite a bit advice about the company I use for my payroll, work comp, and gl, but the reason I post is because these guys helped save my company. Like I told everyone before, I couldn't afford to renew my gl and my work comp was killing me and my only options were to either run illegally without it or close up shop. I luckily heard from someone else about this leasing company that doesn't require any down payment and they are the only reason I can still put food on my table for my family. I constantly see others posting about their wc and gl problems (the same problems I had) and try to help out. If I can help someone else from going through the stress that I went through and keep their business running smoothly and save them the money they are working so hard for then it is a good thing. I'm only trying to help. This forum is here to give advice to other contractors and that is all I am doing. Also, Most of your posts are about the same thing


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