# Need advice on high pressure water mains.



## MC Excavating (Jan 26, 2006)

I need some advice on trenching near or directly adjacent / parallel to a an existing pressurized 6" fire hydrant line. The length of the trench will be 80' long. I believe that the existing line is a cast iron pipe. I was asked to excavate a new trench adjacent to this water main for a new 6" water main to feed the new buildings fire sprinkler system. 

About midway in this run is hydrant about 5' off the main. If I excavate on the back side of this T that feeds this hydrant could the joints fail and blow out pushing the pipe into my trench?


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

I would think 5 feet off would be enough to not disturb the high pressure T, however you might consider finding out the type and age of the line, then if it's older keep an eye out for good measure.

Also .....This advice comes from a swimmer that's never visited that particular boat.


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## john1066 (Dec 26, 2007)

this all depends on the type of material your in if its sand your pretty much screwed. what i would do is prepare of the worst and have some dresseser couplings and a piece of pipe ready in case the worst does happen. if possible shut that line down while you are going past the T. and also move further away if you can like 10 feet if it doesn't make a difference.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

expose the tee first, and drive in a piece of sheet piling behind it


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## cdub (Feb 4, 2008)

Rip and tear:thumbup:


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

I have never worked on high pressure anything. But as thinking it through could you dig a pit behind the Hydrant and pour a yard of concrete in it to block it?


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

denick said:


> I have never worked on high pressure anything. But as thinking it through could you dig a pit behind the Hydrant and pour a yard of concrete in it to block it?


There actually should be something like that behind the tee now.

Around here we pour concrete thrust blocks behind fittings like that. And I am assuming that this is a 1500 GPM fire hydrant.


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## MC Excavating (Jan 26, 2006)

Well, it looks like I got pinched out of doing this work by a landscaper. :furious::no: 

I'm doing demo and grading work in the back for a new spa building at a fancy hotel. I'm on this job because my customer has a contract to do some of the site work to prepare for the new building. The second contractor will be constructing the building.

I have been working on this job on and off over the past year for my customer. They have had allot of issues with the structural design of the building and the city has been taking for ever to approve the plans. Los Angeles city was not comfortable with trying to use micro piles on this project. But, they finally got over there fear I guess.

The project manager for the hotel has been very happy with my work at the hotel so far (about $100,000 worth) that he was recommending to the other GC in meetings that I should be the only excavator on this project for many reasons. 

They agreed but dragged there feet to communicate with me and get paper work started. This past Friday there was another meeting about new utilities and the PM for the hotel says that he wants me to do the excavating. I then get a call on Friday night at 3:30 pm from the GC to give them a price for new utility line trenches asap. 

So I give them a proposal and other stuff they need and Wednesday night at 5:00 pm I get a call from the GC's PM. He says, "Hey, where going to use someone else OK". "I think we have some kind of bonding issues with you". I'm thinking WTF. I smell B*LL SH*T. "But you can still bid on the foundation and basement". I say, "OK fine, it is what it is". Trying to stay calm and on there good side. Foundation and basement excavation is about $150,000 worth of work. But, I just lost $21,000 for the utilities that I thought I had so I'm kinda pissed.

So I'm at the job this morning and a landscaper shows up with a Bobcat 329 mini ex and 12 bandito laborers armed with electric jack hammers, shovels, picks, and hand saws to cut the asphalt. This asphalt was 4" to 8" thick! It was hilarious.:clap::laughing::no: Lucky for them my saw guy was there cutting for me and he picked up some extra work.

Then they finally get a 763 bobcat and a breaker and start making progress. All the while I have a truck running concrete out of this driveway where they are working. My driver had to straddle this 4' trench to get in and out to the dump. Finally on his last load, they managed to dig down about 3' deep in one area exposing crossing utilities. I told them they had to get there trench plates on so I can get my 60,000 pound loaded truck out. 

So they get the mini ex to move the 4 X 8 plates but it is struggling big time. So they ask me if I can help with my JD 310 backhoe. :furious::no: So I did. I had to get my truck out. It was obvious these idiots where not prepared to take on this job.

At the end of the day I politely let the hotels PM know what kind of issues I and they where having and that they needed our help to keep the job moving. I hope this solidifies why I should be doing the excavating.

So now I'm kinda worried about this guy doing the excavating near this water main. The edge of the trench is about 2' to 3' behind the T. I believe this main was installed during the 1980s. The T is actually new and was just installed to temporarily relocate the hydrant its attached to. Maybe I will take pictures tomorrow. He has shoring, but I don't know when he intends to install it.

So I guess I have 3 questions.

#1 What would you guys do about this guy and this water main, I seriously doubt he even knows that it may be an issue based on his track record so far.

#2 This guy has a General B and a C27 Landscaping license. Is it even legal for him to excavate this trench??? By the way, this trench will also have a sewer line installed which will be about 7' down at its deepest point. At least he has shoring. I bet his insurance doesn't cover him for this work.

#3 I doubt this guy filed a permit with OSHA to excavate over 5' in depth and I'm pretty sure there is no competent person running this job. What would you do?

Well, sorry for the rant. But I do feel a little better. I'm anxious to read your responses.

By the way, I have been on a job where a thrust block had blown out over night from a trench that had been excavated behind it. It was soft silty wet soil. The thrust block was about 2 to 3 cubic yards of concete. But it was a pvc line and I believe this occured at a 90 degree joint. This is why I started this post.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

MC Excavating said:


> #1 What would you guys do about this guy and this water main, I seriously doubt he even knows that it may be an issue based on his track record so far.
> .


sometimes you just have to let Darwin work.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

I thought it was bad when landscapers do excavating work, but now they are doing utility work too ??

Everybody run for cover.


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## cexcavation (Apr 17, 2008)

rino1494 said:


> I thought it was bad when landscapers do excavating work, but now they are doing utility work too ??
> 
> Everybody run for cover.


I figure if they want to dig around high pressure water lines, fiber optic, high voltage, high pressure gas, etc. I will gladly pick up the landscaping slack they are leaving behind:thumbup: It's funny how the grass is always greener on the other side, but I have no problems making more money building rock walls, installing lawns, etc. Throw me in someone's backyard, give me an artistic license, and this excavator becomes a landscaping genius........well maybe not genius, but people are easily impressed with big rocks and terracing:laughing: The very next day, I may be doing a sewer tap, but landscaping is one of those "ooohh awww" kind of trades where the cost is easier for the customer to justify. I take extreme pride in my underground work, but once it gets covered, no one truly appreciates the difference between my work compared to landscape/would be excavators work......that is until their sewer line backs up Christmas Eve with all the family over:thumbsup:

Here are a few of my landscaping ventures!!!


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

you all make too big thing out of "rocks"....nick has been far too influential here.


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## cexcavation (Apr 17, 2008)

I used to hate rocks........that was until I realized that I make more money stacking them than trying to bury them or haul them away!!!:laughing:


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## john1066 (Dec 26, 2007)

My dad told a few landscapers around that since they wana do our work were gonna open a landscaping company and start doing there work only thing is were gonna do it cheaper than they can dream of


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

We do some landscaping for builders on spec houses and the occasional homeowner. Turns out, we are way cheaper, the grass actually grows, there are no rocks sticking out in the lawn and no puddles in the yard. We don't like to do it, but it is nice for fill in's and change of pace.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Did I hear someone say "big rocks"? Where? where are they?


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Hey I am a landscaper..


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Your What? Rusk?


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

denick said:


> Your What? Rusk?


LOL a landscaper that does excavation to execute my designs....

well thats what I tell girls...


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Rusk is that you watching movies on the I Pod you have taped to that pole?


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

denick said:


> Rusk is that you watching movies on the I Pod you have taped to that pole?


I bet Day would love to hire that guy. Notice the backwards hat.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Belive it or not, the guy holding the stick was one of the best workers that ever worked for me.


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

I would make some phone calls, INS, contractor licensing, OSHA, his insurance carrier. I would not call the insurance agent. I would have faxed bond, insurance and licence info to the GC. I would have told the landscaper how much you charged to have your truck wait for him to fill hte trench, and I WOULD NOT use my equipment to help him out. I would however, have had the GC or job saftey person talk with him before sending his people into a dangerous situation.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

rino1494 said:


> I bet Day would love to hire that guy. Notice the backwards hat.


like i always tell employees that wear their caps backwards....turn the bill of your cap the right way, or i'll twist your neck until it does.


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## john1066 (Dec 26, 2007)

see worrying about the guys hat is a minor thing as long as he does his job.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

and he'll get the chance to prove himself....just as soon as the bill on his hat is turned the right way


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