# Customer wants me to do anothers work



## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

Hi guys,

So I looked at a job.

Customer wants me to put a bid in for the way another contractor told her to do it. And I think it's the WRONG WAY!!!!

The guy told her he could patch the rotted sub floor from the under side so they don't have to remove the foam barrier.... Which I'm sure will tear anyways when removed.


WHAT THE HECK?!?!?

The flooring is already removed, but for some reason they don't want to pull this super thin crap foam up to access the sub floor.

I told her it's not the right way to do it. She got all huffy and told me to put a "practice" bid in for work that I'm going to do a different way. She knows I'm a new contractor, but I'm not an idiot.

The joists undoubtedly will also need work. But sub floor paneling rests on top of the joists.

trying to get out of this one tactfully..


LOL


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

How can you repair subfloor from underneath?


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

The most tactful way is to turn in the bid but explain your schedule is very full and you will not be able to begin the work for (enter timeframe the customer won't accept). 

Or simply let the client know that you would only be willing to bid the work they way in which you choose. I'm not sure what this scenario is, but cutting out some ply, patching/blocking new subfloor is pretty simple. Maybe Id have to see it to understand the dilemma.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> trying to get out of this one tactfully..
> 
> 
> LOL


You say "Uh, well call me if you change your mind."


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

Framer53 said:


> How can you repair subfloor from underneath?


The only thing I can envision is adding plywood between the joist and supporting it with blocking. Leaving the existing subfloor/foam intact.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Simple, tell her you'll do it your way which you believe is the correct way or you won't do it all.


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> So I looked at a job.
> 
> ...




I appreciate the opportunity but I have to respectfully decline. Thank you and best of luck. Thats how get out of it.


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## AccurateCut (Mar 20, 2015)

proper way of doing things or I could be held liable, Im sorry mam you and I dont want to stand here later and say would of could of should of


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

So she wants you to sandwich the bad subfloor between the foam and the new subfloor? How does she expect you to attach the subfloor? Blocking between every bay? Then how would you attach it? Screw through the foam she doesn't want to disturb?

What is the foam?

If you are ever going to make it, don't do things like this the wrong way. It will come up to bite you. What happens when she goes to sell the house and the inspector calls it out? She'll blame you and try to have you fix it the right way.

Stick to your guns. Besides, tell her it is way cheaper to go from above. I would rather pull up new carpet and do the repair, than try and work in a tight crawl space.

In fact I am bidding one just like that this week. It would take a week to crawl the 12 inch crawl space, or a day from above. Put it hat way to her. Hopefully her cheapness will win out in your favor.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Framer53 said:


> How can you repair subfloor from underneath?





philcav7 said:


> The only thing I can envision is adding plywood between the joist and supporting it with blocking. Leaving the existing subfloor/foam intact.


Have done this before in a house I was renting. Charged my landlord $45 while I was at it too.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Not saying it was the right way, but it worked for the 20"x16" soft spot in the bathroom by the tub


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## mgb (Oct 31, 2008)

So you get underneath and cut out whatever rot you can/try to pull subfloor without messing up insulation. Then patch in.

Above sure sounds alot easier, and I'm sure its like $20 in foam they're trying to save.

You could easily surpass that cost messing around trying to save the old crap. Is that something she understands?

But if shes adamant she knows better than you, I'd pass it up. Something tells me this won't be the only issue.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

mgb said:


> So you get underneath and cut out whatever rot you can/try to pull subfloor without messing up insulation. Then patch in.
> 
> Above sure sounds alot easier, and I'm sure its like $20 in foam they're trying to save.
> 
> ...



I am NOT going to do it from the underside. So stupid, not right and more expensive. I am just ignoring her now and moving on. I know she thinks my bid will be cheaper just because I am younger than the other guy (I'm 26). Which it won't be. What I really want to tell her is, "have him do it if he knows how to."

My argument is that the fix does not follow how code says to install to structure per 
Section R503 (Floor Sheathing)
R503.2.3: Installation using table R602.3.

Obviously I'm not going to spend my time showing her this. I'm done with it.

Oh this guy also told her the vapor barrier in the crawl space was the wrong color........


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> Oh this guy also told her the vapor barrier in the crawl space was the wrong color........


He's probably the same guy that's going to silicone joints before he paints...


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## BRShomerepair (Jun 28, 2015)

I agree with all the advice above. You are positioning yourself as a professional contractor, so just explain that the way she wants to do it is not proper trade practice in your opinion, and you are only prepared to give a quote involving a more proper repair.

There is another way to look at this. That is the moment she dismissed your view on it and wanted to do it this other way, shows that she doesn't value your opinion, or respect you as an expert. If someone treated me like this I would not do business with them. It is a red flag that this could be a problem customer.

I have learned over the years that if I get a feeling from the get go that someone is going to be a PITA, I don't do the work, or price it accordingly and probably won't get it (which is the point). 

I'd forget this job and move onto something better.


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## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

Triple the price to do it her way. That always shuts them down. Since what she is trying to do is skimp on the repair. It blows their logic on saving money by spending more.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

tucnasam said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> So I looked at a job.
> 
> ...


Bid for 3 times what it should take, then tear everything out and do it right.

You'll be happy and she will get it done RIGHT!!! Seems the only thing left is the dollar amount.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

philcav7 said:


> The only thing I can envision is adding plywood between the joist and supporting it with blocking. Leaving the existing subfloor/foam intact.


All those nails and contact points......even with glue, its going to squeak.:whistling


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

BRShomerepair said:


> I agree with all the advice above. You are positioning yourself as a professional contractor, so just explain that the way she wants to do it is not proper trade practice in your opinion, and you are only prepared to give a quote involving a more proper repair.
> 
> There is another way to look at this. *That is the moment she dismissed your view on it and wanted to do it this other way, shows that she doesn't value your opinion, or respect you as an expert.* If someone treated me like this I would not do business with them. It is a *red flag* that this could be a problem customer.
> 
> ...


awesome advice


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Just do it her way and charge her a second time when it doesn't work.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

Thank you everyone for the advice. I still have not responded back to her. I think I will do an extremely high bid and tell her it is to fix it from the top and not from below.

I'll put a bit in there that once the subfloor is removed and the joists and exposed. If works needs to be done on the joists we will do a change order and bid the extra work.

I'll quote code sections in the bid as well (I'll make her have to look for the code. lol). I think that will shut her down along with the code for for vapor barrier stating is must be 6mil plastic, and does not state color. 

You guys are awesome. Thank you so much.

She only lives 4 blocks from me. I don't need her talking chit to my neighbors, especially when I am new.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

The tactful approach is to say, "Thank you for your consideration. I have decided not to quote your job; I hope the project is successful. Best regards, Sam." Don't waste your time or energy with anything else.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

CarpenterSFO said:


> The tactful approach is to say, "Thank you for your consideration. I have decided not to quote your job; I hope the project is successful. Best regards, Sam." Don't waste your time or energy with anything else.


Thank you,

I just sent off my response word for word. I liked your approach best.

Ian :thumbsup:


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

Well she was not happy about it....

She's telling me she "only shared info from a qualified contractor" and also keeps telling me she wanted me to put in my "best practice quote" which are both very condescending.

I'm thinking about asking for the business name of the contractor. But the conversation is pretty much over now. She told me she was taking me off her list of "resources". ...

This is hard starting out.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

tucnasam said:


> Well she was not happy about it....
> 
> She's telling me she "only shared info from a qualified contractor" and also keeps telling me she wanted me to put in my "best practice quote" which are both very condescending.
> 
> ...


Probably the best business decision you'll make in a long time.

You just spotted a problem project after only being on your own for a short while, respectfully declined the work and moved on.

You'll probably look back in a year and realize how good of an experience this was for you.


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## Defenestrate (Aug 13, 2015)

tucnasam said:


> Well she was not happy about it....
> 
> ...
> 
> This is hard starting out.


Plenty of stories here of PITA customers sucking the life out of you and your business. The fact that you dodged one with a high probability of being that PITA should be considered a good thing.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

tucnasam said:


> Well she was not happy about it....
> 
> She's telling me she "only shared info from a qualified contractor" and also keeps telling me she wanted me to put in my "best practice quote" which are both very condescending.
> 
> ...


She lives very close to you. Many people I know won't work within 5 miles of their home. If she badmouths you to the neighbors, chances are they know she's a *****


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> Well she was not happy about it....
> 
> She's telling me she "only shared info from a qualified contractor" and also keeps telling me she wanted me to put in my "best practice quote" which are both very condescending.
> 
> ...


It may feel hard now, but it's great for you just starting out. You are learning how to avoid these types of people. Good on ya for not falling for her bs. :clap:


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

A&E Exteriors said:


> She lives very close to you. Many people I know won't work within 5 miles of their home. If she badmouths you to the neighbors, chances are they know she's a *****


Small town. 5 miles is town. Only 100,000 people.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

100k is a lot of people. 13k is starting to push it for me.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

tucnasam said:


> She told me she was taking me off her list of "resources". ...


Did you thank her? :whistling


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

tucnasam said:


> Small town. 5 miles is town. Only 100,000 people.


Population here (grand rapids, mi) is 192k. You will be fine


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

tucnasam said:


> Small town. 5 miles is town. Only 100,000 people.


I have a sister that lives in Bellingham.

Mom was stationed at Whidbey island when I was very young


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

A&E Exteriors said:


> I have a sister that lives in Bellingham


Great place to live. I've been here for 16 years.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

dsconstructs said:


> Did you thank her? :whistling


HA! Heck no.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

You have nothing to worry about from her. If you stay in the business, you're going to have the same interaction, or similar ones, many, many times. Do not compromise your principles in order to get along with the manipulators and cheapos.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

Yup you dodged a bullet. File that one away in the memory banks, and now you have a profile of that type of person.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 100k is a lot of people. 13k is starting to push it for me.


Try 500.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

We have around 10,000 in our town. I would have bailed as well. Actually I wouldn't have bailed, I would have given a quote for the way I would do it. I also would have added a PIA factor.

The worst that will happen is she will tell people you are too expensive. Believe it or not, that isn't a bad thing. The customers you want will still call you.

The other thing that might happen is you get i, as well as your large PIA factor.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

You work mostly in the Grove, Vernon?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

I'm a millennial (26) and I hadn't a clue what she meant. I took it as a derogatory euphemism. I moved on long ago and haven't looked back!


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I took a derogatory euphemism just the other day. Felt great, there definitely more pep in my step. 

/would do it again.


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## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

CPMKW said:


> It is a phrase from the corporate world. I still can't believe all the people above telling him to stay away because she wanted a price to fix it the best way possible...


I think you might have missed something.

She didn't want it fixed the best possible way. She wanted him to cobble some silly hack job from under the house so that to it wouldn't disturb that flimsy foam that gets put under cheap snap together laminate flooring. She said some other guy said to just cram some wood from under the crawl space up there and the vapor barrier under the house wasn't the right color. So the lady and her friend and or some idiot posing as a contractor neither of them understand how a structure goes together.

She was trying to blend what she doesn't know or understand with how she operates daily. She wasn't wanting to understand what Sam was trying to tell her. She was trying to get Sam to be incompetent at her level.

But then again maybe I miss understood like everyone giving him advice here.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

You got the head on nail mr contractor.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Move on to the next project. If she continues to try and contact you, tell her to go with the first guy that she evidently has such faith in his technique, but add a disclaimer that in the long run she will be unhappy with her decision.

You have to present yourself like you are an iN DEMAND commodity and if she doesn't want to take your professional opinion then you have other priorities that need to be focused upon other than her project.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Remember, it's just business.


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