# Pretty sure I'm getting SCREWED!



## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Edit: Sorry, it was just a rude comment. 480's comment following is a better way of putting it.



No apologies needed, I'm sure I deserve it for being ignorant and letting him take advantage of me.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

jaydee said:


> Just so you know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very true, but isn't this also illegal on his part by mislabeling labor?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

S.Negron said:


> Very true, but isn't this also illegal on his part by mislabeling labor?


Yes....and no. This usually gets fixed at tax time when the IRS goes after him for his unmet obligations unless he fesses up when it's time to pay.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

Bummie said:


> If as stated above, you have your own company and sub from this other guy, you should set your rates for the jobs you do for him.:whistling Give him a quoted price for complete job and if he doesn't like the price he can find someone else.:thumbsup: As far as trying to figure out how to come up with a price ... Labor + Materials + Overhead + Vehicle Costs + Profit + Miscellaneous = Price
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well that just opened my eyes lol nicely written!


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

S.Negron said:


> Very true, but isn't this also illegal on his part by mislabeling labor?


Not necessarily. Your working for others helps to show that you are running your own business. Also, the fact that you formed that business also plays in. This kind of scenario is rampant in construction. Most folks don't take it to the extremes that you did, nor do they play along for almost a decade before questioning it. 

What type of company did you form? Are you covered by Workers compensation? What percentage of your work is for your former boss?


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

S.Negron said:


> Very true, but isn't this also illegal on his part by mislabeling labor?


Sure is.

BUT, so is doing Carpentry, electrical and plumbing without a LICENSE.

around here a license is required and permits pulled.

So, maybe you need a kick in the azz, TOO.


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

We can tell you what to do.
but, you have to figure things out on your own, ask the right people how to do it right. ACCOUNTANT< LAWYER> BOOKKEEPER>INSURANCE CO.

and get your license.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Bummie said:


> Only jake title to make him feel better!! Same hours.. same work... same wages!! You see any similarities??


LOL :laughing:

We used to call that a PRO-MO-TION while bouncing our hands from one side to the other on each syllable indicating that you've been moved over to a new job but not necessarily upward.


But don't feel too bad about your situation. I was working for a guy some years ago where my classification between contractor and employee was ambiguous. I was supposed to get $25/hr. for 40 hours a week to be paid every 2 weeks. But instead he was paying me as if I was a crackhead. He was paying me 3-4 weeks worth of wages every 6 to 7 weeks. This left me broke all of the time because all of my bills were being paid in arrears. Also every time he paid me it was always a surprise. Sometimes a full check of what I was owed, other times it was half of a check and then there was times where he only gave me $100.:blink: To add insult to injury he would get mad and lose his temper any time I asked him about the money. If I pushed the issue, all he would say was "Didn't I just give you some money 2 weeks ago?? DARN! What's your problem?" and then he said that whatever I got paid last time, next time it won't be any amount less than that. But it turned out to be less. 

So take it from someone who was getting screwed... this is an example of getting screwed.


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## Chad McDade (Oct 14, 2012)

Yeah, the guy is screwing you but you are helping him do it. If you have other customers that you charge $45 an hour why in the hell would you give this guy the same work for $25? You are a sub, not an employee - you are the guy who determines your hourly rate, not him. If he doesn't want to pay you what you determine your time is worth then tell him to go pound sand.


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## Snavazio (Dec 31, 2014)

*My Borther is an Electrician in PA (No License)*

He's been at it for over 20 Years, near State College. Does only commercial and keeps busy. LMK if you want his contact info.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

Warren said:


> Then why do you have such a problem breaking away from the one customer who is grossly underpaying you?



I guess just ignorance, also because we have kind of a friendship aswell. Well I thought so anyway.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

*Pretty Sure I'm Getting SCREWED!*



Warren said:


> Not necessarily. Your working for others helps to show that you are running your own business. Also, the fact that you formed that business also plays in. This kind of scenario is rampant in construction. Most folks don't take it to the extremes that you did, nor do they play along for almost a decade before questioning it.
> 
> 
> 
> What type of company did you form? Are you covered by Workers compensation? What percentage of your work is for your former boss?



Ouch that hurt, but true! 

Residential remodeling. 
Yes I have workers comp
And 90% of my work is for him
730-330 5 days/week sometimes more


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Warren said:


> Then why do you have such a problem breaking away from the one customer who is grossly underpaying you?


How much do you gross from this guy in one entire year at $25 per hour when you exclude days you don't work and weekends if you get more than 40 hours per week.

If you earned a $50k per year without the headaches of running a business then you are doing better than many contractors who run their own business.

You have to go back and find my story that tells that people who don't know anything about you can give a better evaluation of yourself than you can do and they can do this evaluation by listening to you speak for less than one minute. My point is; it is very difficult for anyone who never met you to tell you how good a worker you are and what type of values you have. As stated in a book, 98% of all college professors state that they are the on the top 2% for being the best professors. This is mathematically impossible and it means that virtually every professor gives themselves a much higher score. 

Put another way! 98% of all professors are worth much less than they think they are worth. You may be worth more than you are paid and you may not. You may find a contractor who will pay you $50 per hour and cut you loose because he realizes later that you did not evaluate yourself correctly when you told him how great you thought you are.

To answer your question; I think you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with your current employer in a quiet and controlled environment. When you set up your meeting you make it very clear that your goal is to get an increase in your hourly wage. Don't go to the meeting thinking that your employer is in control. You need to be polite and let him know what you are asking for and you are not asking your employer for opinions nor do you want to know about his financial conditions. As an employer, I will never admit to my employees that I am making money and how much money I make is none of their business. At the same time, how much money you need to live on is not your employer's problem and he doesn't care. Therefore, the only thing that needs to be discussed at the meeting is that you must have more than $25 per hour. 

Most employers will not give a large pay increase at one time. Therefore, the best way to get pay a large pay increase is in increments that won't hurt your employer. You can give your employer a written plan that will not make him feel like he is being skinned. You don't ask your employer for a raise. You tell him that you are long overdue for a raise and you want to present him with your plan that will not kill him. If you are getting $25 per hour you tell your employer that you want only a $2 raise and tell him that it is only a stinking $80 per week. Then you hand him your written plan and you tell him what you want. Don't ask because he will automatically say no. You tell him that in 6 months you want another $1 and in another 6 months you want another $1. Now, you are up to $29 per hour and you tell him that this is less than what you have been offered by other contractors. Be Quiet! Don't Elaborate on anything else. Let him speak and don't argue. If he refuses don't add any more information and start the entire conversation from the beginning exactly as I explained. When people do too much talking and say too many different things it distracts people from their goals and it ends up being a B.S. session. You have to be clear, precise and you are not meeting your employer to hear that he will think about it and get back to you later. In fact, you could start by telling him that the purpose of the meeting is because you have a much better offer by multiple contractors and you need an immediate answer, but don't elaborate because it is like playing poker. When you don't speak it is more difficult for people to read you.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

I guess if you are in business for yourself, I am having a hard time figuring out why you would give the time of day to the guy paying you $25/hour when you have customers paying you $45/hour...

Do you file taxes?


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

One rule about building a customer base---whenever one customer accounts for more than 20% of your income--your business is in a bad position---

You are in a bad position.

You know what the problem is---and even the solution---scary as it seems--it is time for action.

Broaden your base---stop giving work away--know your costs and stick to them(you might be surprised to find people will pay your price)


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## Eaglei (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm thinking it's time for a new accountant .


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

mikeswoods said:


> One rule about building a customer base---whenever one customer accounts for more than 20% of your income--your business is in a bad position---


Very true. 

Same can be said for having all your work coming from one sector. I just recently realized about 70% of our gross comes from people tied to oil. Which makes sense since we are WOM only, but is not so good a thing if the oil glut causes a major crisis in that market....


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Sounds kinda like he is screwing his "friend" because his enemies don't come around any more...


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

*Pretty Sure I'm Getting SCREWED!*

Ball park, I'd say $40 to $50. 

I pay a plumber $120 an hour so yeah. Take that for what it's worth.

My electrician is $80


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

jaydee said:


> Sure is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A license is not required in PA to do carpentry. 
When permits are pulled I use my master electrician and master plumber who are licensed. Those two trades must be licensed to be on the permits.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

S.Negron said:


> Yes, it's very interesting. I had no idea what I was getting into with this guy. I had no idea about the business end of this. I feel like I was pressured into this as a solution to benefit me in the long run as "he said". But really was to alleviate all his obligations and transfer them to done younger guy who didn't know much except how to do the field work. Now I'm in thus position and trying to figure out how to dig myself out.





Warren said:


> Nonsense!
> 
> If you were 21 I may buy that. You have been going down this road for 8 years. That Ignorance ship sailed years ago.
> 
> Does he pay you in cash?


You now realize you have made some less than intelligent business decisions.

To dig yourself out:

1) Raise your rates immediately.
2) Bid work by the job not hourly.
3) Go to a good accountant and explain your mess.
4) Take the steps necessary to fix it.
5) Read this forum. Lots of answers for you here.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

Warren said:


> So, lets see......
> 
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> 
> ...



That's the range I'm thinking also. 😔 now, I need to figure out how to go about rectifying.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

kiteman said:


> So how is there any proof that he paid you at all? What official documentation do you use to report your income?



I've never reported from him. Only thing I've received from his company is the checks.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

S.Negron said:


> That's the range I'm thinking also. 😔 now, I need to figure out how to go about rectifying.


Read post #81....


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

S.Negron said:


> If you don't understand someone's position because you know better than they. I would think it would be nice of you to school them a little and not angrily make rude comments because YOU think a certain way.
> 
> I was actually 24.
> No he writes them to my business name.


If he is writing you checks in your business name, you can be sure he is expensing them... 

What this means to you is the IRS most likely already knows what he paid you... if you haven't paid taxes on this income, you are exposed for back taxes, fines, penalties and interest.

Now, don't start getting beside yourself... If you've claimed and paid taxes on the money he has paid you, nothing to worry about... if not, you have a business situation that needs to be addressed immediately...

This is where an accoutant and tax attorney will be of most help...


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## Chad McDade (Oct 14, 2012)

S.Negron said:


> I've never reported from him. Only thing I've received from his company is the checks.



Do you include the income from him when you do your taxes?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Something isn't right here. This has to be a joke. Someone got a new ip that was banned and is jerking you guys around. No one could be this ignorant.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

KAP said:


> It's tough to admit something like that... it's a new year... time to setup an appointment with an accountant...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for your attention. I really appreciate that you can see my trouble, not judging me or my decisions and trying yo help.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Something isn't right here. This has to be a joke. Someone got a new ip that was banned and is jerking you guys around. No one could be this ignorant.


Sad to say this isn't the first time this has happened nor will it be the last...


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

griz said:


> You now realize you have made some less than intelligent business decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent, thank you!!


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

KAP said:


> If he is writing you checks in your business name, you can be sure he is expensing them...
> 
> What this means to you is the IRS most likely already knows what he paid you... if you haven't paid taxes on this income, you are exposed for back taxes, fines, penalties and interest.
> 
> ...



Noted, thank you.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

*Pretty Sure I'm Getting SCREWED!*



chad mcdade said:


> do you include the income from him when you do your taxes?


👍😎😵


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Something isn't right here. This has to be a joke. Someone got a new ip that was banned and is jerking you guys around. No one could be this ignorant.



Sadly the only ignorance at thus point is your comment. Some people make mistakes. I'm sure they all appreciate when your comments make their way into a thread though.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

S.Negron said:


> No I dont


.....


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

S.Negron said:


> ... I dont


Kinda' the private information that might not be suitable for posting on a public internet forum... not telling you what to do, but there is an "edit" button for revisions in case you posted inaccurate or hasty information or something you may have determined you want to keep private....

At this point... an accountant and tax attorney are your route for this particular business situation...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

25 an hour might not be so bad with no taxes.....


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Go see an accountant, bud.


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

*Pretty Sure I'm Getting SCREWED!*

Somebody refresh my memory. Since I am incorporated, I don't receive 1099's from the builders I work for. Now, I've always thought because of the banking laws, checks written to ***x Inc can only be deposited in the corp's account and since there is a paper trail, 1099's aren't required. So where is the builder reporting any payments made to my tax ID to the IRS? And what difference is there when it's an llc?


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## Chad McDade (Oct 14, 2012)

S.Negron said:


> No I dont



Then you need to follow the advice others on here have given you and call an accountant and a tax attorney Monday morning. Problems like this do not disappear, they only get worse the longer you ignore them.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Someone buy this guy a 55 gallon drum of Vaseline.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I think this is the guy. Sounds like him. https://www.linkedin.com/pub/shawn-negron/86/340/873


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

If it is, his work is pretty good.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

The guy he works for has a nice website.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

It's this guy actually JF?


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

Chad McDade said:


> Yeah, after this post...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We'll I hate to burst everyone's bubble but, this is not a joke. Unfortunately I screwed up when I thought I knew what I was doing. I should have done all the research before going ahead with my "illegitimate" business. A lot of you have opened my eyes to the danger I have put myself into. I have taken action today. I have contacted a CPA and a tax attorney. I am taking responsibility for my own ignorant actions. I apologize for making many contractors on here look bad because of idiots like myself. But again, rest assured I am well on my way to rectifying these mistake. You all have been very helpful, even the comments that were a little harsh. But, I can understand the frustration you had. Again, thank you all for the help, advice, and swift kicking in the a$$.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

S.Negron said:


> We'll I hate to burst everyone's bubble but, this is not a joke. Unfortunately I screwed up when I thought I knew what I was doing. I should have done all the research before going ahead with my "illegitimate" business. A lot of you have opened my eyes to the danger I have put myself into. I have taken action today. I have contacted a CPA and a tax attorney. I am taking responsibility for my own ignorant actions. I apologize for making many contractors on here look bad because of idiots like myself. But again, rest assured I am well on my way to rectifying these mistake. You all have been very helpful, even the comments that were a little harsh. But, I can understand the frustration you had. Again, thank you all for the help, advice, and swift kicking in the a$$.


I got to hand it to you, you definitely have a set. Keep learning and moving in the right direction. You have won more guys over than you know and I can guarantee you that most will be more than willing to help you with any more questions.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

S.Negron said:


> We'll I hate to burst everyone's bubble but, this is not a joke. Unfortunately I screwed up when I thought I knew what I was doing. I should have done all the research before going ahead with my "illegitimate" business. A lot of you have opened my eyes to the danger I have put myself into. I have taken action today. I have contacted a CPA and a tax attorney. I am taking responsibility for my own ignorant actions.


I would be careful in how you approach this. 

Starting fresh would be the practical approach.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> If it is, his work is pretty good.



Thank you, I really appreciate that comment 👍 I may not be great at the business end but, I take my work very seriously.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

Warren said:


> The guy he works for has a nice website.



90% of pictures on his website are my work as well. Thanks for the compliment. 👍


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

inner10 said:


> it's this guy actually jf?



jf?


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I got to hand it to you, you definitely have a set. Keep learning and moving in the right direction. You have won more guys over than you know and I can guarantee you that most will be more than willing to help you with any more questions.



I hate to sound sappy but, that comment means a lot to me! You've all been very helpful!! To be honest I was kinda angry with myself that most of you looked at me as a joke because like I said, I take my work VERY seriously and I take so much pride in what I do. My frequent customers literally rave about me, because of the way I work, and the end result is always to their satisfaction. I get more customers by word of mouth than anything. I'm glad you all have had a change of heart, I thought about leaving the forum but, I needed what I got and I really didn't want to leave because everyone on here seems extremely knowledgeable. I'm glad everyone is still willing to advise if I have any further inquires. 👍


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

JBM said:


> I would be careful in how you approach this.
> 
> 
> 
> Starting fresh would be the practical approach.



Can you please clarify by starting fresh? It may sound like a dumb question but, aren't I already f'd?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

S.Negron said:


> I hate to sound sappy but, that comment means a lot to me! You've all been very helpful!! To be honest I was kinda angry with myself that most of you looked at me as a joke because like I said, I take my work VERY seriously and I take so much pride in what I do. My frequent customers literally rave about me, because of the way I work, and the end result is always to their satisfaction. I get more customers by word of mouth than anything. I'm glad you all have had a change of heart, I thought about leaving the forum but, I needed what I got and I really didn't want to leave because everyone on here seems extremely knowledgeable. I'm glad everyone is still willing to advise if I have any further inquires. 👍


Has every thing to do with your attitude. The fact that some thought it was a fake account jerk us around should say a lot about how most would handle the grief that you were given.


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## S.Negron (Jan 3, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Has every thing to do with your attitude. The fact that some thought it was a fake account jerk us around should say a lot about how most would handle the grief that you were given.



We'll, I try to stay positive, even when negative lol


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

It speaks volumes to take your licks, learn from it, and try to remedy it. It also takes a lot to be honest on the Internet. I trully hope you get this settled and you stick around. We do have a great group of knowledgeable people here. Even through the jabs and jokes we do like to help those whoe trully want it. Please keep us updated if you don't mind.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

You might not be in as bad of shape, tax wise, as everyone is making it out to be.

Seeing that you've had no professional tax preperations in the past you have probably neglected to take advantage of many deductions to your income, such as; vehicle mileage, home office deduction, utilities, cell phone, equipment deprecation, tool purchases, etc.

With all these things factored in your tax liability could be quite low based on the rate you have been working.

Your new accountant will hopefully get you squared away, and you'll be fine.

One thing you need to do is raise your rates, right away.

Best of luck.


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## elecbysullivan (Dec 15, 2013)

Where you get picked up from Philadelphia Taxation is during someone else's audit. They are fishing expeditions which love to uncover consultants and independent contractors unknown to the city of brotherly love with its needy hand out.

If you need free assistance with your business reigning it back in, the Federal Gov't has these centers set up on the state level in many locations. http://www.pasbdc.org/centers

Temple has a very good Construction MGT program 
http://www.fox.temple.edu/cms_resea...-centers/instructional-programs/construction/


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## Safeco (Jan 5, 2015)

I just joined this site because of you.

You may try to get at leas $15.00 and $10.00 1099 this way you have some money towards you social security, this will be good on both of you and your boss, he shows something and you show some too and both of you will benefit. How the hell you get away with 8 years without showing anything? take it from me I have been there Do Not Play With IRS they will take everything from you with in seconds, they did it to me for not filling taxes for two years. I did not make zilch in those two years I was sick and figured hell I'm small potato they will not coming after me, guess what there are more vegiterraneans work for them now and love potatos.
You make mistake learn from it and move on don't look back and with talent like that why would you want to work with someone? Dude get you GC license it's easy test, you have skills don't let somebody tel you what you worth,what to dress and when to show up and give something back to your state too, you can't just take and take they need small crumbs from your pizza.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

S.Negron said:


> We'll I hate to burst everyone's bubble but, this is not a joke. Unfortunately I screwed up when I thought I knew what I was doing. I should have done all the research before going ahead with my "illegitimate" business. A lot of you have opened my eyes to the danger I have put myself into. I have taken action today. I have contacted a CPA and a tax attorney. I am taking responsibility for my own ignorant actions. I apologize for making many contractors on here look bad because of idiots like myself. But again, rest assured I am well on my way to rectifying these mistake. You all have been very helpful, even the comments that were a little harsh. But, I can understand the frustration you had. Again, thank you all for the help, advice, and swift kicking in the a$$.


It's been a long time since we come across a humble attitude and someone willing to admit their issues...

As you move forward, contonue to look at it from a business issue perspective... not a personal one...

Keep asking questions and implementing solutions and I guarantee the conversation at the end of the year will be much different than this one, and you will most likely find yourself in the position of giving advice rather than receiving it...

We got hopes for you dude... :thumbsup:

.


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## Marven (Jul 15, 2013)

I haven't read all the posts but I will say this.

Right now you are probably only worth $25 per hour. You need to start bidding some of your own jobs. Teach yourself how. You have a lot to learn but your GC wont teach you. You must teach your self or find a mentor. When you figure out how to bid a job and schedule it correctly, you will be worth lots more. Go for it.


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