# Employees tools stolen, whos responsible?



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

bryanad86 said:


> i own a franchise... wouldnt the main office tell me me if anything was illegal?


They will tell you when you are behind on payments - you expected more?...


Look: Since tools are a condition of employment, and since you take responsibility for storing them, it wouldn't require a very smart lawyer to contend they are "leased" and covered the same as any tool you rented from Home Depot(and got stolen).

Might want to check your policy....
:whistling


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

bryanad86 said:


> im also being told that in california i have to pay my guys for travel time, currently i only pay them 25 percent of the billable hour. i also have a bonus system in place that when the van makes 3500 in a given week the employee then gets 100 dollars bonus, and every 1000 dollars after that its an additional 100. i do not currently pay for any drive time between jobs, my guys have 3 to 4 jobs per day..


Yikes. You better cross your fingers your employees don't file a claim for unpaid wages, or you are up the creek, big time.

Or maybe you're one of them, fishing for information. My comments would be the same.


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Seems simple...you pay for them...simple as that. If you wanted insurance on it, you'd have to purchase it as your own first. Kinda hard to insure something that never was yours, but if you require him to have it, and now he doesn't because your van was broke into, if he doesn't replace them on his own, is he then fired?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

bryanad86 said:


> i own a franchise... wouldnt the main office tell me me if anything was illegal?


You can never rely on anyone to cover your butt.

It is illegal not to pay them to drive between jobs. Typically to the first job and home doesn't have to be paid, unless it is further than a reasonable distance.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

To the OP, what Inner said!

And how can you even ask? If you tell them they have to have their own tools and that they can leave them in the van, you better darn well replace them if they locked it up and did all they could to ensure they were secure.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I think the employee should have to pay for the broken lock as well. :laughing;


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

We got robbed a few years ago. About 4k worth, and $1200 of that was an employees. We went and replaced everything the next day.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

B, Didn't you send the employee to where the tools were stolen...... Due diligence, etc... Sounds like you are looking for a loss sharing plan for your workers....

If the worker got bit by a dog/customer, wouldn't you pay?
Sounds like dispatching is one of your biggest issues, maybe some "smart" hoods are seeing your workers' tools (In your Van) as a step up from robbing the Pizza boy?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

2 things here:

#1. I would ask myself what I would want and what I would expect my employer to do if the situation was reversed. That's part of the reason why you must make a profit. Unfortunate things happen and you need to bounce back very quickly. 

#2. I figure that if I supplied the tools and they were stolen, I'd have to buy them again anyway. At least if the employee came to my company with $1000 worth of tools, that's $1000 that he is saving me that I can utilize elsewhere. It's almost like the employee is giving me a loan. The whole purpose of an employee having his own tools in the first place is a means to establish credibility. Not necessarily to save the employer money.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Holy Moses On Horseback! 

I'm glad I bagan (for the most part) my building career in the Union.

We clocked in in the morning, boss provided transportation, all tools except an approved list that we were required to have, as per our CBA.

All transportation between jobs, or supply runs, were paid.

Tools stolen or damaged during working hours from a company vehicle were paid for by employer. Tools damaged in the course of work were the employee's responsibility.

The tools we were required to have were in our tool belts. No personal power tools were allowed on the jobsite.


I think if I worked for you, I'd be looking for a new job.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> I don't know if you have to replace them...but it would be a dick move not too...



Mods, might as well shut this thread down, the best answer has been given.:laughing::thumbup:


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> Mods, might as well shut this thread down, the best answer has been given.:laughing::thumbup:


Lmao!


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

bryanad86 said:


> im also being told that in california i have to pay my guys for travel time, currently i only pay them 25 percent of the billable hour. i also have a bonus system in place that when the van makes 3500 in a given week the employee then gets 100 dollars bonus, and every 1000 dollars after that its an additional 100. i do not currently pay for any drive time between jobs, my guys have 3 to 4 jobs per day..


Completely wrong. With employees you are paying for their time. All time that they are spending doing things for your business. Commute to and from home doesn't count unless it's more than a certain mileage (50 or so I think).

Think of it this way - if the guys come to the shop in the morning to pick up their company van, they clock in. When they clock out is when they get back to the shop and are free to go home.

Anything less than this and you are exposed to lawsuits, and pissed off employees - especially if it's 4 jobs per day! "Yeah, I left home at 6:30am to be at work by 7. Got done with the last job at 6 pm, but I only got paid for 7 hours because of drive time."

And it's not just the state of California ...

I realize that it sucks - badly. If I were you I'd be paying for that drive time. If they drive the vans home, clock in when they arrive SOMEWHERE for you (supply house, or customers place), and clock out when they leave the last job or whatever for you and can go home.

If you have to restructure the bonuses to make that happen so be it ... Maybe pay drive time and start bonuses at 4500 instead of 3500. CYA !!!


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> I don't know if you have to replace them...but it would be a dick move not too...


Inner says it in a nut shell....:thumbsup:

Buy the guy new chit and move on....


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## oldschoolcarp (Mar 2, 2014)

First of all if they are driving your trucks you are responsible for their actions and required to pay for their time. 
If they are working for you by moving your truck and equipment all over town to different jobs you are required to pay them for that time. To not do so you are not only a #ick, but open yourself up to a lot of liability.

Secondly, why should an employee have to provide tools beyond basic tool belt and hand tools. What happens when Larry uses Bob's tool and cuts his hand off?

Again you would be liable not Larry, and you couldn't even prove that you had maintained the tool properly, etc. etc.

Buy your employee replacement tools tell him to take them home, and then buy your company the necessary tools.

I supply all equipment necessary for the job, minus personal hand tools and tool belts. My employees are responsible to take care of the equipment, to let me know when something is damaged or broken, and only if it was gross negligence or intentionally damaged do they have to replace it.

It's your business not your employees, act like it.

Mike


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Take care of your hands if you expect them to take care of you. They are putting food in your mouth and money in your bank.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I say you should reimburse for half of the tools. You didnt own them and could not sell them when the employee left etc... If the employee is paid to own and buy tools when broken or stolen then he will be motivated to make sure they dont get stolen, and to make sure he doesnt steal them himself. Everybody should feel a little pain From the incident. Its only fair.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> I don't know if you have to replace them...but it would be a dick move not too...





Metro M & L said:


> I say you should reimburse for half of the tools. You didnt own them and could not sell them when the employee left etc... If the employee is paid to own and buy tools when broken or stolen then he will be motivated to make sure they dont get stolen, and to make sure he doesnt steal them himself. Everybody should feel a little pain From the incident. Its only fair.


Any questions...:whistling


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Any questions...:whistling


Well well well. Tnt. Now that youve chimed in with your position I finally KNOW im right. 423 posts about how great service magic is. Puhleese. If there was anyone to look to on inspiring ways to throw money down a hole it would be you.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Metro M & L said:


> Well well well. Tnt. Now that youve chimed in with your position I finally KNOW im right. 423 posts about how great service magic is. Puhleese. If there was anyone to look to on inspiring ways to throw money down a hole it would be you.


That's funny, I've made tens of thousands of dollars through SM. I guess some of us have it and some don't. And I like the fact that you haters always bring up SM or Holmes. Get some new material.

Oh, and BTW I just quoted to posts...Inner spoke, so I guess he is wrong?

Man, you can never get anything right. :laughing:


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

Kent Whitten said:


> Maybe from your perspective. Don't include me in your delusion. In business, there's no room for outright lying. In life, there's no room for outright lying. Tell me I'm on my high horse or whatever, but never include me in your group.


i can't even be sarcastic with out some one getting pissy about it.

Sorry sir, I grovel at your feet, Ode to you , generous one
:jester:


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## bryanad86 (Apr 3, 2014)

tedanderson said:


> Dom-mas brought up a very good point about CHOOSING to leave your tools in the van vs. it being mandatory to leave them there. I went back and read the original post and this is what I think happened-
> 
> The OP left his tools in the van overnight while he was at home because he didn't want to be bothered with carrying them into his house/apartment/trailer or wherever he lives... or for whatever reason he had no reason to be concerned about theft. So when the unfortunate inevitable sequence of events took place, he really wanted his employer to replace the tools.
> 
> I honestly don't believe the story about this taking place during the work day because if this happened while he was on the jobsite, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.


It really happened during work ... I was on one of his jobs... Someone broke into it on the street right off Santa Monica blvd in santamonica in the middle of the day.... I was gone for maybe 15 minutes inside and I come back to find a tire flat and the back door to the van open with the lock punched out. Think I called the police around 12:30 pm


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## bryanad86 (Apr 3, 2014)

And in response to the amount of tools I had...I work for a large handyman company... We are required to bring any and all tools needed to complete the days jobs.. Jobs also get switched and added through out the day so we don't really know what we need at any given time. My set of Milwaukee fuel tools costs over 1500 to replace with the batteries I had.. Now I'm on a set of rigids. Sorry to burst ur bubble :|


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

So now in 15 minutes time they flattened your tire and unloaded 8 grand in tools!!

You should see if he wants a job, he's fast and I hear he has a lot of tools!!!!


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

bryanad86 said:


> And in response to the amount of tools I had...I work for a large handyman company... We are required to bring any and all tools needed to complete the days jobs.. Jobs also get switched and added through out the day so we don't really know what we need at any given time. My set of Milwaukee fuel tools costs over 1500 to replace with the batteries I had.. Now I'm on a set of rigids. Sorry to burst ur bubble :|


Bummer!


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

FRAME2FINISH said:


> So now in 15 minutes time they flattened your tire and unloaded 8 grand in tools!!
> 
> You should see if he wants a job, he's fast and I hear he has a lot of tools!!!!


Tool thieves are good at what they do. They usually have someone stake it out then a couple guys will roll in and take everything in the blink of an eye.


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## bryanad86 (Apr 3, 2014)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Tool thieves are good at what they do. They usually have someone stake it out then a couple guys will roll in and take everything in the blink of an eye.


cops said i probably got followed from home depot which is where i was coming from.. there was a plumber that got ripped off a couple miles away the month before and the exact same thing happened, valve core in the tire taken out and tools gone.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

weird....the valve stem bandits


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## bryanad86 (Apr 3, 2014)

im told its to check for an alarm


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

Let's see a knife and a swift kick would be quicker wouldn't it!

Maybe it was so you couldn't chase them down, your van would be a lot lighter than theirs wouldn't it?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Tool thieves are good at what they do. They usually have someone stake it out then a couple guys will roll in and take everything in the blink of an eye.


Out here these aren't random guys; they're organized crews. They could punch a lock and empty a van in 2 minutes.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Ok, so here it goes and waiting for the bashing. I am a full time police dectective, was robbery homicide but now a Vice detective. I also own a construction company, love the work and would do it full time in a heart beat but I have a guaranteed paycheck and a pension, with 3 young kids I can not take the risk. I do have employees and my "side business" has me working more than my "full time job". Now I said that to validate my answers:

Tires are often taken down to check for alarms or see if someone is watching, if they get caught right away its only a criminal mischief, not a burglary. They watch then, see if anyone comes around and then strike. They are pros most times and VERY fast, its actually amazing. Had a group caught on video and they each had their own job, it was timed out perfectly, very skillful and impressive. If they would only put as much time and effort into something legal. If serial numbers were written down they need to get into the report, that way pawn shops or a street officer making a traffic stop and finding a bunch of tools in a trunk can find they were stolen.

A leason here is, on a down day, write all the serial numbers down you can find. I take photos of the tool I purchased along with the serial number, easier than trying to keep a data base, then move the photo to a tool file. I also engrave each of my tools, granted they can be scratched out or removed but on a job where someone else might have brought a tool, i can confirm it is mine. 

Good luck with getting paid for the tools, I had trailer open on a "good" site one day and within 5 minutes of being in the back of the house I had about 1k worth of tools walk off the trailer, f*****g theives!


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Out here these aren't random guys; they're organized crews. They could punch a lock and empty a van in 2 minutes.


Yeah...I got hit in suburban Detroit a few years back... 2 brand new gas Air compressors, a Rigid and Rol-Air. We almost got our hands o the guy...caught him in the act and he sped off after a dinner with my supplier. We had just taken delivery of some 7-800 square of Landmarks.

I found the guys the next day...ironically after leaving the PD after bringing in my serial numbers. The cops tailed one of the guys for a few weeks and busted him with stolen chit in 7 locations in three counties. Im sure they were organized.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

...


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

How am I lying? Why would I put that in my profile? I do own a company, do work in the business and if you would like to pm me, I give you my company info to google


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

He mistakenly thinks you're the original poster, coming back with a 3rd identity.

Edit: With a little judicious use of the Edit button we can make this all go away.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

CarpenterSFO said:


> He mistakenly thinks you're the original poster, coming back with a 3rd identity.
> 
> Edit: With a little judicious use of the Edit button we can make this all go away.


I almost got mixed up with the similar names as well. :laughing:


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

I just don't get the bashing, I give information so you all are informed of information that I know, just as I belong to the forum because I have not done every job out there. 

I enjoy picking other people's brains so I can be more efficent at my business and quite frankly, I spend all my down time studing construction, I truely love it. I am tired of putting babies and kids in body bags....it wears on you but for my family, I have no choice. Judge me as a lying cop, whatever, I know who I am and you have no idea of what I have had to do. 

I do not really want to edit what I've said, it seems chicken chit, so I will just stop posting or being a part if thats what it takes. Sorry, for all of a sudden highjacking this thread.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

brhokel606 said:


> I just don't get the bashing, I give information so you all are informed of information that I know, just as I belong to the forum because I have not done every job out there.
> 
> I enjoy picking other people's brains so I can be more efficent at my business and quite frankly, I spend all my down time studing construction, I truely love it. I am tired of putting babies and kids in body bags....it wears on you but for my family, I have no choice. Judge me as a lying cop, whatever, I know who I am and you have no idea of what I have had to do.
> 
> I do not really want to edit what I've said, it seems chicken chit, so I will just stop posting or being a part if thats what it takes. Sorry, for all of a sudden highjacking this thread.


He thought you were someone else...


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

brhokel606 said:


> How am I lying? Why would I put that in my profile? I do own a company, do work in the business and if you would like to pm me, I give you my company info to google


Lol...sorry, my screen is cracked pretty bad and i thought the names were the same.my apologies!


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