# How to fire employees?



## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

Hi, I'm just curious on how everyone deals with letting go of employees. I'm sure some of you have been around long enough to have attracted good, steady employees, but I'm finding in the growth phase of our business, firing is more common. I think I will start to tell new employees there is a 30 Prohibition period and then we will decide if we will keep them. Anyways, how do you break the news and do you ever give a second chance or stand firm? Do any of you have any funny or scary firing stories? What are some of the things that you have fired for? We have an employee that is a pretty good, steady, and dependable painter but he is a little rough around the edges. Not sure what to do yet.


----------



## DamionR (Jan 19, 2007)

When I was 19 I had my best friend working for me... knew him since the day i was born... lived beside me growing up - his parents and mine we're great friends...

... so of course it ends up I had to get rid of him. I completely felt horrid about it... and made it an emotional situation. 

The funny part was - he was glad I did it because he wanted to leave but was still working because of our relationship. 

So after that, I pretty much had balls of steel and no problem stating facts to people. The biggest advice have is not to make it direct blame on the person - blame it on why what they are doing is not helping the business. This makes it non-emotional... and people take it much easier.


----------



## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

get over it.Fire them.I love to fire people.It takes alot for me to fire a guy,so by the time I'm there I'm enjoying it.
that is one thing I loved about corperate roofing...no production...no job.


----------



## ACTRenovator (Jan 1, 2007)

Roofwiz, you are a cold bloke.


----------



## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I had to let go of my lead man after several fellow crew members complained that he kept on going down to his truck to drink his beer out of a brown paper bag.

I did not do anything on 3rd party information but I borrowed a different vehicle and brought my binoculars and parked about a block away from the job site.

I saw him do as the guys said. I confronted him about it and warned him that if I catch him or if it is reported to me again, there would be consequences.

On another roof, about one week later, I found his brown bag and beer on the roof. I asked if it was his. He said yes. I told him that he just fired himself.

I let him know that if he straightened out his act, he could reapply for a job in one year.

I think that the key is to let them fire themselves after disobeying company rules or creating a safety hazard.

Ed


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I'm guessing most firing processes take place with taking ole Joe out to for a talkin' to under the willow tree or a screaming match on the job site, but another way is to have what's called an employee handbook which outlines the do's and don'ts for employees, then when an employee is breaking your rules it's a simple matter of discussing the issue, pointing out the issue as outlined in writing in your handbook and following the guidelines of firing which are also outlined in your handbook. You might have a process depending on the severity of the issue where it's a verbal or written warning or 'write up' of the first or 2nd offense then immediate dismissal after that.

In the 'real' world this is pretty much the procedure, based mostly upon how sue happy everybody is and companies need to protect themselves. Obviously in construction it's a looser set of rules we all can play by, but there certainly are a lot of over-looked advantages to that system even in our industry. I wouldn't over-look the advantages of that system in re-aligning a slightly derailed employee with a lot of potential who has just gotten off track a bit.


----------



## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

i was just kidding
I'm not that bad,when a guy asks for it though.


----------



## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

My fathers old foreman always used to say...

"Never hang a man. Give a man long enough and he will hang himself."

And that is very true, you let a man go long enough and eventually he will slip and fire himself.


----------



## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

I don't think you should get into a shouting match and maybe a physical confrontation.I let them know at the end of the day or before work the next.I worked out of town and I would try to get them their bus ticket before hand.That way they could depart before there was a chance for trouble.


----------



## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

Many years ago we hired a young lady as an office helper.
She was STUNNING!. 5'7" or so, blonde, very well built, slim, short skirts, large, round .....well, you get the picture. And she let everybody know it.
She couldn't do the job though, and it fell to me to fire her.
She offered certain....compensations.... if we would keep her on the job, but my mind was made up. Like the Man of Steel, I did the deed (firing, that is, you guys should take your mind out of the gutter!), resolutely and with courage, stength and a stiff......upper lip. 
every firing since has been just as hard, but if you gotta do it, you gotta do it.


----------



## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

That's some good advice. Fortunately after a lengthy conversation today, I don't have to let my painter go. He approached me and more or less apologized for the way he's been acting the past few days. He said he had a chat with his buddy before work today and he now realizes how good he has it. I guess his buddy is not very happy with his job. It kinda made me feel good. We then proceeded to to talk about our goals and how we can reach them. It's amazing what a little communication can do.


----------



## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

kanadaeh said:


> Hi, I'm just curious on how everyone deals with letting go of employees. I'm sure some of you have been around long enough to have attracted good, steady employees, but I'm finding in the growth phase of our business, firing is more common. I think I will start to tell new employees there is a 30 Prohibition period and then we will decide if we will keep them. Anyways, how do you break the news and do you ever give a second chance or stand firm? Do any of you have any funny or scary firing stories? What are some of the things that you have fired for? We have an employee that is a pretty good, steady, and dependable painter but he is a little rough around the edges. Not sure what to do yet.


You need to be on T.V. to fire anyone.:jester: You had criteria when you hired, have criteria to fire.


----------



## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

I don't mind, Customers don't hold back on me if they mess up why should I hold back on them.

I have kind of come to a realization in my early 20s. Almost every person people think is an a hole is made that way by an actual a-hole.

Your in a movie and a guy in front of you won't quit texting if you tell him to put it away, everyone looks at you like your the a ss.

One of my renters didn't pay who happens to be a friend so at ten days late I said, Hey man I need to get that rent from you, he made a scene and went and got money on the spot.(Hardly what I meant, but got the job done) But made me look like an a hole in front of all the other renters even though I worked hard to buy the place, he should work hard to pay his share. The fact I had to ask seems more annoying then what i DID.

Lastly I fired a guy, that didn't show up, didn't call, nothing. On top of that had my tools in the truck so I call and he doesn't answer. I had to go to his house. Get my tools that were still in his truck out front his house. On top of that I left town and he didn't go to work for 3 days he was supposed to. So I fired him. I said, you won't take care of me how do you expect me to take care of you. He says. "I make a lot of money for you and your not even appreciative." with a few expletives. Tells me that I just make my money of others back breaking labor. I was pissed and just told him to hit the road. Seems like anymore the boss is always the bad guy and no one wants to be on a team. Like you make their money and a magically fairy gives them theirs. 

In hindsight, I should have said no **** sherlock thats like the textbook definition of a sheetrock/roofing contractor. Look it up. Some people are so entitled these days.


----------



## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Do it quickly after you have a chance to evaluate the person, because the future is what you were hiring them for.

At one time, we had two unions (Teamsters and Laborers) and one contract required a 30 day period and the other had a 90 day period for probation.

A week or two before the period was over, I got calls from the union BAs reminding and wanted to know what we thought. The BA did not want a bad employee to represent and did not want to get into future problems representing him. They knew he could be replaced with another union member that could work out well for everyone in the future. - They wanted a quick and justified reason to get rid of a bad employee. The knife cuts both ways.

It is always much better with less trouble to do it quickly after an evaluation and give some reasons for the decision.

Good luck, because it is not easy.


----------



## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

Wow my friend to the north you must have had a bad day to bring up a 4 year old thread. I have a bad habbit of thinking "it will get better" when I know they need to go so by the time I finally do I am good and mad. So it's easy for me to say the sooner the better when you know it isn't working.


----------



## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

HA thats weird I was just refreshing the new posts page and saw this. I haven't fired someone for quite a while and had a really nice warm day today.


----------



## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

I fiqured something must have happened. We had a good day too. You guys stayin busy up there?


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)




----------



## CJA (Jan 26, 2011)

Mike Finley said:


> I'm guessing most firing processes take place with taking ole Joe out to for a talkin' to under the willow tree or a screaming match on the job site, but another way is to have what's called an employee handbook which outlines the do's and don'ts for employees, then when an employee is breaking your rules it's a simple matter of discussing the issue, pointing out the issue as outlined in writing in your handbook and following the guidelines of firing which are also outlined in your handbook. You might have a process depending on the severity of the issue where it's a verbal or written warning or 'write up' of the first or 2nd offense then immediate dismissal after that.
> 
> In the 'real' world this is pretty much the procedure, based mostly upon how sue happy everybody is and companies need to protect themselves. Obviously in construction it's a looser set of rules we all can play by, but there certainly are a lot of over-looked advantages to that system even in our industry. I wouldn't over-look the advantages of that system in re-aligning a slightly derailed employee with a lot of potential who has just gotten off track a bit.


Couldn't have said it better. Follow the company policy and procedure, do it on a one on one (PRIVATE) setting, and no matter what don't get in a screaming match. I just bring people in, sit them down and plainly say "I don't think your a good match for my company and I'm letting you go." If they ask for more info on why I'm letting them go, I pull out the written warnings and explain that it's obvious that he can't follow my company policies and it's just best for us both to move forward in different directions. 

Good luck & happy trails.

It's that simple.


----------



## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Mr. Finley is right again. 

I was with a firm once where the owner would fire people just because he felt like it. Although his trick was to have someone else do the actual processes of firing. 

As a manager, and someone with business experience, I worked with HR to establish a procedure so that when someone was terminated (ie: fired) there was no basis for legal action on the employee's part. 

The first thing was to have an employee manual that stated what the company's expectations were, what your job was, what your duties and responsibilities were. There was also a section on the process of evaluation, warnings and termination. It was all spelled out, black and white. Plus upon receiving this manual, the employee had to sign a document stating they had received it and read it. 

Once the ground rules are set, then it is just a matter of everyone following the rules and meeting expectations. There is no guess work and no one feels they got singled out for not following any "unwritten" rules. 

Here is what I do: 
1) Everyone takes a basic skills test prior to hiring
2) Specialists and tech's take a more advanced test prior to hiring
3) Depending on the position there is a 30 to 90 day probationary period
4) Everyone gets an employee manual with a special section on their position that details what is expected for that position
5) If anything isn't quite right or not meeting expectations, we have an immediate and private face to face discussion, keeping it open and professional. 
6)If at the end of the probationary period, they haven't met the stated expectations and goals, then it is over. 
7)At the end of the probationary period, they get an evaluation of exactly what expectations and goals they have met - rated as Excellent, Good, Needs work, and Not Met. 
8) Everyone gets an evaluation every 6 months ( usually prior to a raise ). Also, raises are based on meeting and/or exceeding goals and expectations, not just how long you have been here. 
9) Firing process: 2 - Verbal Warnings with employee sign off, then, Up to 2 - written warnings with employee sign off.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

There have been a couple of instances where I had to fire an employee on the spot. In both situations the employee did something that was so unforgivable that I lost my patience, reached into my pocket, paid him everything that he was owed up to that hour and said, "Here's your money. Get outta here. You no longer work for me."

Other than that, I've never really had to actively terminate someone being that my employees are tasked as needed. (and they are free to take temp assignments elsewhere also) So when I have a problem employee, I simply don't give him any more work for a while.


----------



## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

If you hire decent people then letting them go should be kinda hard. Hire bad people and letting them go is very easy.

When I was a foreman back in the day that was hard for me. We always hired top notch people and paid them well. People have families and obligations just like you and I. The best way to do it is honorably and respectfully, they same way you would want to be let go. In the past we almost always let people go because the job was done (very large jobs) and not because they "didn't work out". The hiring process was very tedious so when we hired a person it was the best of the best.

To be mean to an employee and degrade them before letting them go says a lot about the person who hired them in the first place. Good businesses attract good people.

Mike


----------



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> If you hire decent people then letting them go should be kinda hard. Hire bad people and letting them go is very easy.
> 
> When I was a foreman back in the day that was hard for me. We always hired top notch people and paid them well. People have families and obligations just like you and I. The best way to do it is honorably and respectfully, they same way you would want to be let go. In the past we almost always let people go because the job was done (very large jobs) and not because they "didn't work out". The hiring process was very tedious so when we hired a person it was the best of the best.
> 
> ...


I was just gonna say that. :whistling

Good post Mike. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I wonder how much $ it would cost to bring in Donald Trump for a day :laughing:


----------



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Tech Dawg said:


> I wonder how much $ it would cost to bring in Donald Trump for a day :laughing:


I'll do it for ya for $1,000. You pay the hotel and air fare.


----------



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

The best way to fire someone is to bring Opie in for the day and have your employee work with him.... I'm sure after 2 hours of a crazy, 1/2 naked guy painted in hydroban wearing flip flops etc... they would just quit, then you don't have to pay unemployment:whistling:


----------



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Tech Dawg said:


> The best way to fire someone is to bring Opie in for the day and have your employee work with him.... I'm sure after 2 hours of a crazy, 1/2 naked guy painted in hydroban wearing flip flops etc... they would just quit, then you don't have to pay unemployment:whistling:


Hey Opie, can we get a pic of this?

On second thought, never mind.


----------



## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

There is a big difference between terminating and employee depending on whether you have a union or not. This is where a union can be an asset and assistance to management.

I had a good employee (over 20 years longevity) that had that I had to terminate because of lack of availability and not showing up. He was a Teamster. For almost the entire year he was the best of the group, a favorite of the customers and had the best performance. He was even allowed to park his car during the week at the plant and take a loaded $80,000-$100,000 truck home (20 miles away) to make early local deliveries and filled in on the phone to take orders on a rainy day (a good salesman). He also participated in training new employees in the attention to power lines and made suggestions on equipment. The real problem came every year shortly after the holidays and he would be gone for a week so. Since we had a contract, the union insisted we terminate him or forfeit the attendance requirements of the contract because past practice is important for future cases in case we wanted to make further enforcement for others.

I terminated him 4 times and after being talked into bringing him back the second time, he asked the union to represent him in a grievance panel. I had been on the grievance committee before and the unions said they wanted to deadlock the case to be sent to the regional hearing 400 miles away. The reason was that the local employers and the union wanted to "kick" it out of town to others. As usual, management agreed with the union and a valuable employee with a good work history of 20+ years should be reinstated - this happened 3 times. Every time, we knew the decision in advance, but had to jump through the hoops to enforce the contract that was valuable when we had a "bad egg" in the flock later.

I met with the friend/employee and gave him a fishing rod that I personally made as a hobby if he would straighten out. About 8 months later of perfect work, I got to work at 7:000 AM and found the rod on my desk. He did not punch in. He was sent a letter as required. He also sent some flowers to the union BA and was not seen for a month or more.

It was a real learning experience and he survived a few more years after he moved out of the trailer behind his ex-wifes home and to another spot adjacent to a grade school and high school friend of mine because he was a good person and worked with the community until he died.

If it was not for a contract (playing rules) that had to be followed he would have been gone quickly because of emotion, but he contributed education, training, performance and profits to the company to the end in a proud manner.

All of this may be meaningless for people that hire short term employees and do not rely on the history, but Harley was a valuable person that was protected and contributed because short-term emotion was not involved and value was recognized by a framework.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

concretemasonry said:


> Since we had a contract, the union insisted we terminate him or forfeit the attendance requirements of the contract because past practice is important for future cases in case we wanted to make further enforcement for others.


So let me get this straight.. and I think that I understand you correctly- The union recommended his termination and THEN helped him fight for reinstatement?


----------



## CilasConcrete (Aug 12, 2010)

*Honesty...*

Honestly is always Key, let them know exactly why its not working, if there not producing, they arent producing



kanadaeh said:


> Hi, I'm just curious on how everyone deals with letting go of employees. I'm sure some of you have been around long enough to have attracted good, steady employees, but I'm finding in the growth phase of our business, firing is more common. I think I will start to tell new employees there is a 30 Prohibition period and then we will decide if we will keep them. Anyways, how do you break the news and do you ever give a second chance or stand firm? Do any of you have any funny or scary firing stories? What are some of the things that you have fired for? We have an employee that is a pretty good, steady, and dependable painter but he is a little rough around the edges. Not sure what to do yet.


----------



## Smatt (Feb 22, 2011)

Obviously, you must have a small company. Because if you had a large company you would need to follow a different set of rules. You would have to document everything. Most likely you would have a human resources department, who would ultimately have the responsibility of firing the said individual. There is no firing on the spot.

I must agree with Mike you hire quality you get quality.

Though there are always extenuating circumstances to every situation. I only hope this was not a power trip move.




I would like to know what the " unforgivable" act,motion ramshackle event was?


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I have only let a few people go, one was a lay off, and I just them what the problem was and wished them well. If they were new and they didn't have the proper temperament or skill set I let them go quickly. I've heard its best to hire slow and fire quickly

Once I worked for a hard ass foreman building houses, he fired folks pretty regular. He hired a yankee from new york who was a hell of a carpenter but pretty uppity. We were digging footings for a foundation and the boss told him to go ahead and give us a hand, it won't kill you. He told him that a shovel wouldn't fit in his nail bags. 

The boss told him if he dint want to dig footings that he could go to the house. The yankee told him him that he would see us in the morning and had some stuff to take care of anyway. We were all in shock. 

Maybe. " Sending someone to the house" and "you can kick rocks" are purely southern sayings for firing. JAW


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

One thing that I'll add to this discussion (that I forgot to mention above) is that when I hire/fire, I do it with the understanding that this is my livelyhood that is on the line. So if I have to send someone to the unemployment line in order to keep my shop from being boarded up, I'll do it. There are times when I've given guys several chances but if an employee does something to negatively affect my chance of getting more business, I'll have to let him go.


----------



## jocobe (Nov 1, 2005)

If I fire someone for cause, I suspend them for three weeks pending discharge. You'll never see them again. This way it'll appear they quit and will be ineligible for unemployment benefits.....which will save you money.


I've only had one person ever return and I fired her anyway. 

.


----------



## Scoma (Mar 9, 2011)

Last person I fired was a slacker with a poor attitude. I was walking the jobsite one day and he was on the ground chatting with the guy loading the crane. The slacker was a crew leader and should have been on the building with his guys. When I walked up to him, the first thing he said was "When are we going home?" I told him he could leave right now, and don't worry about coming back tomorrow.


----------



## jimmys (May 1, 2009)

*decent*

A guy we had years ago started off decent then gradually turned to **it. I guess he had some personal stuff going on. He started falling off the lowest rung of a stepladder, things like that. We told him to leave and not come back, and paid his full week also to keep him away.
Mostly young guys want to leave for glory or *ex.
Jim


----------

