# First Hand Experience with Corporate America Greed



## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Man, you need to shoot a little higher. A million bucks doesn't buy what it used to.
> 
> At your socialist leaning curbs on my income cap, it would take me more than 10 years to pay for this little modest 3 bedroom ski house up the road in Vail.


 Lots of folks take 30 years to pay of a house that costs 1/10 of that. Not that I believe in income caps. Just sayin':laughing:


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

boman47k said:


> I guess we should not look down on crack dealers anymore. They cicrculate a *lot* of money, and that money creates a lot of jobs from law enforcement to hospitals and funeral homes to contractors and all sorts of manufacturers.
> 
> One thing is, we do not absolutely* have* to have big fine homes, fancy autos and bling in general. We don't even *have* to eat at Mc Donald's. We *have* to have gas and we have to pay whatever we are told to pay.
> 
> Sometimes, it feels like extortion (gas prices) and not justified.


no you don't...that's why they make bicycles and God gave you feet...all over the world, people get around without cars...you just are too lazy to not use gas, but you don't need it, you want it...


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

mahlere said:


> no you don't...that's why they make bicycles and God gave you feet...all over the world, people get around without cars...you just are too lazy to not use gas, but you don't need it, you want it...


Don't make me peddle over to your house and kick your ass


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

JumboJack said:


> _MY_ government?
> Last time I checked Houston was in the US just like Lakewood,California.


Well they ain't my government. A government that was mine would be one that represents me and this govt does not represent me.......or you.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

mahlere said:


> no you don't...
> 
> 
> > *that's why they make bicycles *
> ...


I always ride my bike around in January when the wind chill is minus 55. :laughing:


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

rbsremodeling said:


> I can't believe I read through all this crap..


i can't believe that you can actually read:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

rbsremodeling said:


> Don't make me peddle over to your house and kick your ass


It's almost 8, you ain't peddlin' anywhere except to the icemaker... :w00t:


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

rbsremodeling said:


> Don't make me peddle over to your house and kick your ass


better bring beer and bitches on the bicycle of yours...


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

rbsremodeling said:


> Or you could learn to run a business that makes a profit by charging the rate that you need to pay your bills..
> 
> If your unable to do that, give up and get a job and leave the Construction/remodeling to us real men


That was kind of sheety to say. We are worth in excess of $25 million. Go look it up on Manta or Dunn & Bradstreet. Running the biz is not the problem. Hiding money legally from the vultures is the challenge so that there is enough to keep a profit. A good Accountant is smarter then the smartest any govt can produce. 

I sure am happy for you that you love paying so much taxes though.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Kevin M. said:


> I always ride my bike around in January when the wind chill is minus 55. :laughing:


but if you had to peddle, you would move to where it's warmer...who the hell chooses to live in NE anyway?:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

mahlere said:


> better bring beer and bitches on the bicycle of yours...


:laughing:


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

mahlere said:


> but if you had to peddle, you would move to where it's warmer...who the hell chooses to live in NE anyway?:laughing:


Just when I thought it couldn't get any hotter, I got a look at the farmers daughter.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

WNYcarpenter said:


> ...........1$ mil a year should cover anything you could possibly want to achieve in life.........2% of the population having control of 99% of the wealth is absurd. What is the justification???


That same 2% of the population pays for over 50% of all income taxes. 

Giving the other 98% control of the wealth would be absolutely insane. 

I proudly want to be in the 2%, but only for the reason of what I will become as a person to deserve it.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Jimmy Cabinet said:


> We are worth in excess of $25 million. Go look it up on Manta or Dunn & Bradstreet...




Seriously?

You started on greedy execs in their sports stadium suites and now YOU'RE the rich guy being over-taxed?

Wow, this thread has it all.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

ChrWright said:


> Seriously?
> 
> You started on greedy execs in their sports stadium suites and now YOU'RE the rich guy being over-taxed?
> 
> ...


It's a myriad of perplexities ranging from the inane to the superb, funneled into a vortex of insanity or bliss! :shutup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I hated thanking the karate kid, but had to do it. :whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Yeah, but Jimmy's the poor working schmo...right? :blink:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

ChrWright said:


> Seriously?
> 
> You started on greedy execs in their sports stadium suites and now YOU'RE the rich guy being over-taxed?
> 
> Wow, this thread has it all.


 



J F said:


> Yeah, but Jimmy's the poor working schmo...right? :blink:


 

:whistling I think I hit this one on the head on the 2nd page



Mike Finley said:


> *Jealousy* is not a viable methodology to determine pay rates.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Only in a construction forum could you cover the entire gamut of issues in one thread. What did we leave out? Organized crime perhaps? :laughing:

Mike


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Man, could you cap it a little higher there Obama?
> 
> A million bucks just doesn't buy what it used to.
> 
> At your self-inflicted socialist cap on my income, it would take me more than 10 years to pay for this little modest 3 bedroom ski house up the road in Vail.



Nice house mike, when are you inviting the CT guys out west to enjoy the slopes next year? you beat me, I guess my offer was too low. :sad:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Jimmy, what is your company name? or you work for someone that is worth 25 mil? I thought you were a cabinet installer or cabinetmaker?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Only in a construction forum could you cover the entire gamut of issues in one thread. What did we leave out? Organized crime perhaps? :laughing:
> 
> Mike


post # 37 :whistling


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

WE didn't cover how build a ship in a bottle......


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I did pick up a bike about a week ago! Just got to fix the flat. Maybe get me a cart, and be like the guy someone posted on one of the forums carrying his ladder and pulling his small trailer. Or was it a three wheeler bike?

You got to be kidding me! This si the 21st century. Even the Amish use fuel around here.

Besides when it really gets tough to find work, you have to enlarge the area you seek work in.

If I could make a living at home with horses, I might could do with out gas and be happy about it. As it is, life is not that simple today. But then, there would be a tax on hay and feed even if home grown.

You know, I don't even know if there is enough useable land to grow feed and fuel (wood) to sustain the population of the earth and grow the food it takes to feed all the people and animals. 

We* have to have gas/fuel. *Besides, as forgetful as I can be, I would hate to start a job and only have a bike.

I am against caps on money one can earn. I do believe there are things in motion that should be looked at more closely that allow some to make so much at the expense of so many others.


p.s. Kind of left a little off and just noticed it.


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## CINEMASUPER (Aug 23, 2009)

Who won the game! It seems to be the only 
thing not covered.:whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ApgarNJ said:


> WE didn't cover how build a ship in a bottle......



Au contraire mon frere...post # 1177


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

ApgarNJ said:


> Jimmy, what is your company name? or you work for someone that is worth 25 mil? I thought you were a cabinet installer or cabinetmaker?


Whew I took some heat over that. All because some dummy insulted me and my reflex defense system instinctively reacted. So I have a temper to go along with my kind personality. I'm bending over but I'm also warning you my azz does not fit any show more then a size 10. 

We are a group of several construction companies, real estate acquisition companies, and property management companies. Our newest team members are an Attorney, a new landscaping company, a mortgage company and a security company. For the most part, about 70% of all our work is in house kinda like one hand feeds the other. So the real estate acquisition company buys apartment buildings or builder tracts that have gone bankrupt, our construction co does the major construction, yours truly sells them cabinets, and our real estate company sells it. We keep many apartment buildings in our portfolio.

I rent space as the others do to be part of this group. I also have access to their money for expansion purposes as well as all the trades at my disposal. You are welcome to learn more from my web site and click on "about us".


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

CINEMASUPER said:


> Who won the game! It seems to be the only
> thing not covered.:whistling



:shifty: You _know_ that was covered in post # 1789...quit playin'


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Jimmy, some more succint info in regards to your position within you org. would probably be helpful.

From what you posted, you're not actually a legal part of the entity?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

So, you're an employee of a biz. that is?


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Jimmy Cabinet said:


> Whew I took some heat over that. All because some dummy insulted me and my reflex defense system instinctively reacted. So I have a temper to go along with my kind personality. I'm bending over but I'm also warning you my azz does not fit any show more then a size 10.
> 
> We are a group of several construction companies, real estate acquisition companies, and property management companies. Our newest team members are an Attorney, a new landscaping company, a mortgage company and a security company. For the most part, about 70% of all our work is in house kinda like one hand feeds the other. So the real estate acquisition company buys apartment buildings or builder tracts that have gone bankrupt, our construction co does the major construction, yours truly sells them cabinets, and our real estate company sells it. We keep many apartment buildings in our portfolio.
> 
> I rent space as the others do to be part of this group. I also have access to their money for expansion purposes as well as all the trades at my disposal. You are welcome to learn more from my web site and click on "about us".


 I supose the attorney works for minimum wage?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Where you been? :whistling


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

J F said:


> Where you been? :whistling


That's what I was thinking, same with Heritage, where the heck did he go?

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

J F said:


> Where you been? :whistling


Maybe they have actually been working Jay, not like us sluffers.:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

RC maybe?


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

J F said:


> RC maybe?


Yeah, actually a lot of people kinda fade in and out here. Many of them have really great posts usually. When I go through the archives it amazes me sometimes. 

I suppose we just have to settle for picking on each other I guess.:laughing:

Mike


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Maybe they have actually been working Jay, not like us sluffers.:laughing:



quit tellin' on me...fvkr :laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Jimmy Cabinet said:


> Whew I took some heat over that. All because some dummy insulted me and my reflex defense system instinctively reacted. So I have a temper to go along with my kind personality. I'm bending over but I'm also warning you my azz does not fit any show more then a size 10.
> 
> We are a group of several construction companies, real estate acquisition companies, and property management companies. Our newest team members are an Attorney, a new landscaping company, a mortgage company and a security company. For the most part, about 70% of all our work is in house kinda like one hand feeds the other. So the real estate acquisition company buys apartment buildings or builder tracts that have gone bankrupt, our construction co does the major construction, yours truly sells them cabinets, and our real estate company sells it. We keep many apartment buildings in our portfolio.
> 
> I rent space as the others do to be part of this group. I also have access to their money for expansion purposes as well as all the trades at my disposal. You are welcome to learn more from my web site and click on "about us".


No sweat Jimmy, I used to be a Harvard professor but I got so busy on the forum here something had to give so I gave up teaching.:laughing:

Mike


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Yeah, me too...I gave up my position as the masseuse to the womens swedish volleyball team to be here. :whistling


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

J F said:


> Where you been? :whistling


 Me?
I've been so slow I don't feel like a contractor much...:laughing:
Haven't had much to say...


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

BattleRidge said:


> Corporate Greed. Seems like this new craze to be against. Have you seen the money they give to charity? The buildings they built? The 6 employed people from that skybox?
> 
> I am in my early twenties and I have a problem, and I hate it. I am being seperated from my piers because THEY REFUSE TO DISIPLINE THEMSELVES FINANCIALLY. I have 5 guys that work for me and a (partner) that works with me alot. At 22 he cannot save and makes anywhere from 25 to 40 bucks an hour. Drives me insane, we always talked about growing up building specs, developing properties and designing trademark homes. But he literally will use credit cards to get by till we complete another project. He spends 5k a MONTH. He rents the apartment down the street from me with this other employee. Refuses to lower his standard of life for the sake of saving early. This has been a problem for 3 years now. In the meantime I have been renting a room saving, bought a house with a good downpayment and rent the other rooms so they cover the mortgage and some. I save about 60% of my income and have learned about investing so I can put it somewhere smart, making it work for me. After only 3 years the difference in our lives have changed immensely and I can already see negativitey put my way. Thats just how its going to be.
> 
> ...


BINGO!!!! You get it!!!! Congrats, your gonna do awesome in life simple as that. Stay positive and be part of the solution.

Awesome stuff

Mike


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## kwt const (Oct 28, 2010)

"If you want it done and done right, hire a professional." I think the government needs to hire you guys to fix this mess. Prioritize, organize and get the tools out. It may have been my suggestion, but you all can figure out who the head GC will be. I just know what nail I'm not supposed to hit. Very interesting stuff, everybody. Thanks. :thumbup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Mike for President??:shutup:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

tomstruble said:


> Mike for President??:shutup:


 Hell no. I don't want to see Mike sodomized by the status quo.:sad:


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## kwt const (Oct 28, 2010)

"Mike for President??:shutup:"

:laughing: I wasn't nominating anyone in particular. However (no offense, plumbers) there is a LOT of government B.S. that needs to be processed. Wastes, drains, vents, and check-valves on an unprecedented scale; so that may not be a bad idea. I started drawing a blueprint and my computer crashed. Just sayin'...


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

BattleRidge said:


> I am in my early twenties and I have a problem, and I hate it. I am being seperated from my piers because THEY REFUSE TO DISIPLINE THEMSELVES FINANCIALLY. I have 5 guys that work for me and a (partner) that works with me alot. At 22 he cannot save and makes anywhere from 25 to 40 bucks an hour. Drives me insane, we always talked about growing up building specs, developing properties and designing trademark homes. But he literally will use credit cards to get by till we complete another project. He spends 5k a MONTH. He rents the apartment down the street from me with this other employee. Refuses to lower his standard of life for the sake of saving early. This has been a problem for 3 years now. In the meantime I have been renting a room saving, bought a house with a good downpayment and rent the other rooms so they cover the mortgage and some. I save about 60% of my income and have learned about investing so I can put it somewhere smart, making it work for me. After only 3 years the difference in our lives have changed immensely and I can already see negativitey put my way. Thats just how its going to be.


 
We've all seen the numbers before - The top 2% of the wealthiest control 80% of the wealth (or whatever the numbers are?) 

Point is it's not the top 100% control 100% of the wealth. Successful people are the people who will do what the unsuccessful won't. No more difficult then that.

You might end up in that 2%, your partner no doubt is destined to be in the other 98%.

Don't sweat it too much.

If everybody was as smart as you, your life would be a lot harder.

(hey, have you ever heard if they took all the wealth and divided it up evenly amongst everybody, within a decade it would pretty much be distribuited right back as it is now?) Think about that. 

Stupid is as stupid does. You can't change stupid.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Heritage said:


> HA!:w00t:
> 
> You know what they say about the devil? Just logged on. Came on yesterday for a minute then I had to cut out. ****** Mike is BACK! Welcome back Mike.
> 
> ...


:clap::clap::clap: I vote for this Reply to be the best of all !! Thank you !!


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

That Henry Ford equation left out the most important part. 

Henry Ford was rich as hell. Making all the rest of the equation nothing but x + y = z. Its just an equation until someone put numbers in it. 

Then he sold more units, but do you think he did that without estimating with a new margin per unit sold if he sold more? Finacially speaking he probably became more super rich after that decision. 

He probably studied how he could use leverage, how he could build his business the best and where the best allocation of his money was. By the end he was making Insane amounts of money, because HE WANTED IT.

While all those employees went home everyday hoping for another raise, because they work hard. No risk, no extra curricular effort, and probably consuming more then necesary. Every single person I know that makes 10 bucks an hour. (the majority of my age group) Has a larger TV then me, nicer cellphone, and newer vehicles. Largely paid on credit AND they lived at home till they were 20. NO EFFORT.

While maybe being a corporate elite is out of your hands, its only because YOU didnt put yourself there.

Being a millionaire is more of a choice of drive than anything else. Construction is a great place to do it. I know multiple millionaires that own drywall companies and develope and such. I watch them and see how they did it. Why should you get a piece of their pie?


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Battleridge -

Henry was a true example of a man growing up, growing an industry that had a concept of the "big picture" and desired to be profitable, efficient and looking ahead.

He paid his workers for than anyone else and wanted feed-back because he only had two eyes. He also knew if his employees were not paid decently, they could never buy cars and shame their neighbors.

I think the example of his use of scrap wood pallets to be converted in to charcoal briquets with a relative is typical of the attention to details (see Kingsford Charcoal). The classic "any color as long as it black" was true for production cars, but one of the first U.S. race cars was bright red to attaract attention to the name.

There have been some errors through the years (some named after a son Edsel), but at least the principles were sound enough for the company to avoid the government controls to get bailed out. Due to the breathing room provided by Tata (a huge Indian company) in the form of 40 billion or so in cash for Jaguar and Rover, they had the elbow room to concentrate on marketing and business and not just advertising.

At times he had failures and some strange ideas but they were sound, but he never bought a outrageous plane, like the plane that Janet Pelosie wanted and bought. American companies still invest to create profits and not to go to sky boxes that are just meaningless except for the people invited and go through the courtesy of a salesman.


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## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

Well, this issue is far more divisive that I would have guessed, considering we work in construction. I hear a fair amount of guys who appear to be big believers in the free market system. But the only real examples of a "free market system" that I know of, are A)the world of illegal drugs, and B)Florida after Hurricane Andrew, and New Orleans after Katrina.....I work in an unusual place, in the fact that virtually ALL of the people that build houses here are either CEOs, or high ranking members of the world's financial system. I can't remember the last time I worked on a house that was less than 5 million dollars. And none of these are their first homes. The airport here, for a town of 10,000, is the second busiest in the state, behind Boston, due in large part to the enormous numbers of private jets coming in every weekend during the summer. Sometime, these jets will bring the whole family, maybe more. Just as often, they will bring a wife, or a child. And believe it or not, sometime just a dog. I sh%t you not. Now, I don't begrudge these people for what they have. But to categorically state that they have benefited from the "free market" is to miss the mark. In 2007, 41% of the corporate profits in this country came from the financial sector. And a lot of those profits make it down to K street. Where people are paid big money, to make sure that the market is favorable, not fair. How else do you think someone could pay 29% on a credit card? There used to be laws against that. The financial sector is probably the most egregious, but there are a thousand more examples, for those willing to look. Many of the decision makers who shaped the economic landscape that precipitated the near collapse of the world financial system believed in the free market to their core. If *those* guys were the ones standing on a corner now, so would I.


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

I wasnt saying he wasnt a good guy, just that even if he paid those people well he made if off their backs. And what is considered "well" usually more then the standard that that point. 

Government employees spending is a whole other issue.

I have worked on tons of multi million dollars houses here that are for builders. How you grow yourself if somewhat under your control. There are construction businesses here that make 100 million a year and they are owned by one guy, not a fat cat just a smart dude.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Battleridge -

Those $1,000,000+ homes are really owned by the bank or financing company. The guy living there temporarily still has to pay back the cost (plus interest) for years after the workers were paid.

I would imagine that many were models or spec homes when there was nothing on the books to build.


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## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

One of these guys I worked for, he was a VP with General Electric.....He was in charge of a plant in NY state that made refrigerators......Well, refrigerators sold for about, say 800 bucks in 1980. He's bragging that his company now sells refrigerators for the same 800 bucks. Except they are made in Mexico. And the plant is gone. And the town is done. 2,300 employees canned. And he gets a HUGE bonus. His second home is 11,000 sf, all the amenities.... Oh yeah, takes a real business genius to move to the third world......A monkey with a business degree from ITT tech could have figured that out......What nobody from the Right or Left will say publicly, is that in a global economy, without some forms of protection, the standard of living in third world countries will rise, and the standard of living in first world countries will fall....sort of osmosis of wages. And unless you have the lobbying power to compete with the big guys, I don't have to tell you who comes out on top...


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Rockmonster said:


> One of these guys I worked for, he was a VP with General Electric.....He was in charge of a plant in NY state that made refrigerators......Well, refrigerators sold for about, say 800 bucks in 1980. He's bragging that his company now sells refrigerators for the same 800 bucks. Except they are made in Mexico. And the plant is gone. And the town is done. 2,300 employees canned. And he gets a HUGE bonus. His second home is 11,000 sf, all the amenities.... Oh yeah, takes a real business genius to move to the third world......A monkey with a business degree from ITT tech could have figured that out......What nobody from the Right or Left will say publicly, is that *in a global economy, without some forms of protection, the standard of living in third world countries will rise, and the standard of living in first world countries will fall....*sort of osmosis of wages. And unless you have the lobbying power to compete with the big guys, I don't have to tell you who comes out on top...


Sounds like your basic, run of the mill, redistribution of wealth to me, or a warped version of it.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Why is it so many people become upset at flashy multi-millionairs?

Read a book called "the millionaire next door" and you will discover most multi-millionairs are basic people who drive a used Chevy and have a very small home.

The "flash" that we sometimes see in certain people driving big black Mercedes reveals a different person under a lens. Many of these people are living paycheck to paycheck.

The people who drive Mercedes and actually HAVE the dough to back it up is a very tiny fraction of the population.

Mike Finley was right, facts are stubborn things, 2% will ALWAYS control the 98%. Read about Adam Smith from the 1700's, he said the same thing when he studied it, it just never changes.

The last twenty years provided a ton of pretenders but the contenders remained constant.

Money is a decision, it's just that simple. If you were to have a time maching and grab Henry Ford, Warren Buffet, Andrew Carnegie and a bunch of other capitalists and stick them in any situation in any time frame of your choice they would probably do very very well financially.

On the other hand grab a cumpulsive complainer and do the same they will end up dirt broke. This isn't new, studies have been done on this for decades.

Lastly, imagine how many houses I service in a week, well, I get to know my customers pretty well and the observations I make are very consistant with this.

Here is a classic example from this week...........

Got a call for a leak on a house that's about 80 years old. When I arrived the yard was trashed, the siding was trashed, the windows were discusting, and the lawn was pretty mis-managed.

In the driveway was 2 brand new Chevy pick-up trucks (4x4) and completely loaded to the gills.

I had to bang on the door because all that was left of the doorbell was a pair of wires sticking through the rotted siding.

The owner yelled as loud as he could so he didn't have to get his 350 lb a$$ of the lazy boy.

I walked inside and the house looked like a tornado went through it.

I smiled of course but immediately observed him eating a frozen pizza on his belly, with a tall glass of Mt Dew, and a blanket covering his whole body while he watched tv. He then explained where it was etc so I went to fix it. I ended up spending 5 hours at his place.

While I was hanging out with "Joe American" I got to know his family pretty well. His kids were exactly the same, in fact the one truck was his. While I was there they ate dinner, it was basically a table fulll of coronary heat disease.....but man did it smell good.

The election was this week and as you know Republicans dominated the political winds. The entire dinner discusion was non stop complaining.....it got to the point where I was ready to snap.

Anyhow, when I left I found out they were going to a country music concert the next day, upon talking to them I discovered they go to over a dozen a year....the entire family. Now, that's fine but I also found out this guy is 62 and can't retire yet becuause he is broke. When he said this (while complaining about others) I looked at the main wall and observed a gigantic bookshelf of X-Box video games and movie DVD's.

On the table next to the Lazy-Boy was a big pile of lottey tickets and even a special wallet to keep them in, cause you know, he is a professional lottery player.:laughing:

That's the story

Folks, this is not a special occasion, I see this daily, it never ends.

On the flip side I also do work for some very rich people. Without going into a whole nother story I can tell you it's the exaxt opposite including the lack of constant complaining. So that's that.

Lesson.........Monuments are not built of people like the customer in the story. People like this are a serious drain on this country and are the cause of many problems, they are the majority. Money is sliding through his fingers and he doesn't even know it. He would much rather buy things that make him feel good, unfortunatelly people like this need to do it on a daily basis.

This guy will die of a heart attack and he will be broke, my guess is his sons will also.

Last thing I will say is watch the video below, do yourself the favor and reallylisten to it. Will Smith is so much more than just an actor, he defines exactly what is said in this film. Do what he does and you will have no choice but to make millions. This is easily the best video on Youtube as far as I'm concerned, it's an absolute life changing video! It's deep deep wisdom....and cool as heck to watch.




 
Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Rockmonster said:


> One of these guys I worked for, he was a VP with General Electric.....He was in charge of a plant in NY state that made refrigerators......Well, refrigerators sold for about, say 800 bucks in 1980. He's bragging that his company now sells refrigerators for the same 800 bucks. Except they are made in Mexico. And the plant is gone. And the town is done. 2,300 employees canned. And he gets a HUGE bonus. His second home is 11,000 sf, all the amenities.... Oh yeah, takes a real business genius to move to the third world......A monkey with a business degree from ITT tech could have figured that out......What nobody from the Right or Left will say publicly, is that in a global economy, without some forms of protection, the standard of living in third world countries will rise, and the standard of living in first world countries will fall....sort of osmosis of wages. And unless you have the lobbying power to compete with the big guys, I don't have to tell you who comes out on top...


If it's so easy than do it yourself.

Mike


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

Your just making assumptions with that comment really. I understand how people leverage themselves out with credit, that there is more then there is on the surface and what you see. I am saying that where I am at there are many many millionaire contractors and its not suprising. 

There are lots of ways to make alot of money and use yours to help yourself. Its pretty easy to get 30% plus on the stock market with relatively low risk, but no one does it. Everyone just invests in easy products if they invest at all. And the key really is investing while you are young. Play with a compound interest calculator sometime. Things like that create the snowball that make people rich. 




concretemasonry said:


> Battleridge -
> 
> Those $1,000,000+ homes are really owned by the bank or financing company. The guy living there temporarily still has to pay back the cost (plus interest) for years after the workers were paid.
> 
> I would imagine that many were models or spec homes when there was nothing on the books to build.


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## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

Mike, you are missing the point. I have no desire to shut down an entire town. Or become fabulously wealthy. I have simple needs, don't want for too much, work hard, and just live my life like most people. But it seems that more than a few guys here, while espousing personal responsibility in regards to their finances, don't seem to mind that their government acts like the fat guy who lives on credit cards and buys lottery tickets. Economists from the IMF have stated that the US must "immediately and permanently" double all federal and corporate taxes to avoid catastrophe. Republicans have told people we can fight unending wars, have lower taxes, and live the American dream. They lie. Democrats have been equally misleading. We as a country, are going to have to face that fact, or be prepared for massive inflation, as the most appealing option for most politicians is to kick the can down the street and print more money. Maybe the story about the fat guy with the two nice trucks, and loads of debt, and piles of video games has a happy ending. But this is where I'm with you; I'm betting against it.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Well, the gov spending and the issues that go along with this has always been an issue, nobody would argue with that. That's old news on a different day.

The guy in the story will have a very poor ending as indicated by how he lead his life decisions.

Nobody needs to be wealthy, but how about some personal responsibility? That guy is ultimately THE REASON for gov spending. Obama and the freaks NEED him to be irrisponsible, they NEED him to be a worthless bumb, that IS the point.

The PEOPLE (we) are the sole blame for those in office and the decisions they make while in office. Blaming government is a worthless endevor.

The more money I have the less I need them (gov). The more money I have the more I can control them (gov). The more money I have the more influence I have (gov).

It's been this way since the earth cooled. Everyone has choices in life, some are better than others and some you can't recover from. 

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

The other day I had a very successful busines man tell me something interesting. I CAN NOT verify this so let's call it an opinion. 

He told me he read a story about the habits of immigrants in this country and the culture they bring with them.

He said the article claims people form India (Indians) have the best habits. Hispanics are actually worse than Americans but not by much.

Anyhow, he claimed the Indians are big time savers and investors as a whole. They tend to pay cash for things and the savings rate is light years different than the rest of us.

They are very conservative with buying habits and only buy what they can afford. How they determine "what they can afford" is a way different formula than typical America.

Bankruptcies and foreclosures are also non-existant because they are responsible. 

He also claims they are the most frugal of the group and instead of being just frugal and blowing the savings of being frugal on crap they invest it heavily.

I can't verify it but this guy is very educated and well read. I would say the Indian population seems to represent what he is talking about.

That's just a smart way to live for everybody. Anyhow, I thought it was interesting.

Mike


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## Five Arrows (Jan 30, 2010)

*corporate responsibility*

From the twenty years that I spent managing for the JcPenney Company I participated in the transition first hand when they left the founders ideals and embraced short term profit as a company objective.

They took people who had spent their lives working for the company and tossed them aside like junk mail. These were exceptional people who's lives were completely sold out to the company. They lived ate breathed JCPenney. The kids wore their clothing, the tv, stove, lawn more, tires (dating myself) all came from the company.

I was front line salesman when they said that healthcare would bankrupt the company so we needed to only provide it for 20 hour/ week employees. The majority are young people that fill the sales floor jobs. then they systematically took that number up to 35 hrs and eliminated health care for 50% of the employees in a year,

In the old days we took care of our own. If someone got sick...really sick the company stepped up and took care of the bill. Ha not under this new paradyme. It's every man for himself.

When someone talks of corporate greed I think it is the executive that negotiates a golden parachute worth millions then makes short term decisions to boost the stock price at the expense of long term viability. Plunder the village and move on.

I am not a democrat but sounding like one a bit. I don't have any problem with someone making a lot. What I do have a problem with is someone making a lot at the expense of another person when it is in their ability to help them.

My wife works for a grocery store. At 15 hours per week she got full 80/20 medical, dental and optical for our entire family for 89.00 a month.... This shocked me. When I managed the store that same insurance cost us "key employees almost 700/m and was totally out of reach for the bulk of the store

The difference Union representation. Somehow this grocery store that had a fraction of the markup JCPenney had was able to take care of their employees and still make bank. At the end of the year how important is it that a company made 4.8 billion instead of 4.5 billion

In a world of everyone for themselves employees need to adapt to the new environment.

1) you are self employeed
2) If you don't take care of yourself nobody will
3) Charge for everything nothing for free
4) Add the hidden overhead items
5) When the company make you an offer You don't have to automatically say yes you can say hell no!


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

Awesome post Five Arrows !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to take the time to tell you that.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

That is all fine and well. Here is a different take on that.

I am disabled with what money I have tied up in the market. I believe as a stockholder and owner of a corporation I am entitled to make as much money as it can to continue paying me.

I live on it. Are you saying that the employees who have nothing invested other than time, are more important to be taken care of than the people that have put up the money to create these jobs?

As far as unions go, in this day and time, I tend to stay away from companies that are unionized. I like to use GM, Chrysler and Ford as examples of why.


Now having said that, I do believe in a fair compensation plan with benefits. What that is, needs to be figured out for each and every individual company.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Five Arrows said:


> From the twenty years that I spent managing for the JcPenney Company I participated in the transition first hand when they left the founders ideals and embraced short term profit as a company objective.
> 
> They took people who had spent their lives working for the company and tossed them aside like junk mail. These were exceptional people who's lives were completely sold out to the company. They lived ate breathed JCPenney. The kids wore their clothing, the tv, stove, lawn more, tires (dating myself) all came from the company.
> 
> ...


 
Great story. But you have to acknowledge that JC Penny doesn't and didn't then operate in a retail vacuum with no outside forces to contend with and that their choices were not soley based on a whim or a fart in the wind depending upon how somebody got out of bed that day at corporate.

If you worked there that long you should be painfully aware that all those retailers were operating in a pressured environment due to Walmart. Who went out of business during the same time you are talking about? Who merged with whom as a matter of survival during that time? What other retailers barely survived as we know them today during that time and what did they do, spend more or cut back?

Everybody wants to think of big companies looking like this behind the board room doors










If you spent that much time with that company you weren't privy to the newspapers? Headlines? The circumstances that were going on within the company? 

It was all about screwing everybody just for the fun of doing it huh?


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## Knighton (Feb 5, 2009)

Five Arrows said:


> From the twenty years that I spent managing for the JcPenney Company I participated in the transition first hand when they left the founders ideals and embraced short term profit as a company objective.
> 
> They took people who had spent their lives working for the company and tossed them aside like junk mail. These were exceptional people who's lives were completely sold out to the company. They lived ate breathed JCPenney. The kids wore their clothing, the tv, stove, lawn more, tires (dating myself) all came from the company.
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry you spent 20 years of your life working and expected something other than a paycheck. Why is it that people believe they are entitled to anything other than to be paid for the services they provided?

If you work a week and get paid, they no longer owe you anything. You are only entitled to the pay they promised you for the work you did. This idea that we are all entitled to some entity tasked with taking care of us is why many of the state and local governments are facing bankruptcy. Some pay a defined benefit of 100% of a person's pay for the rest of their lives. And while that's a great benefit, it's unrealistic and will eventually burst (and has) in a volitile market enviroinment. These defined benefit plans never accounted for a depression. A defined contribution is a much more manageable system and doesn't promise something that it can't realistically deliver.

Another thing that baffles me is why people don't understand the risks of investing their money in the market, i.e., stocks, bonds, funds. There's no promise of any return and there is some risk that you will lose all of your money. You exchange a risk-free investment in say a CD or savings account or even a treasury note for the chance to make bigger money in the market. That risk can yield great rewards, but it also comes with the chance of gaining nothing or even losing. 

I realize everyone isn't a sophisticated investor and may not understand all the ins and outs of the market, but it's ultimately each individual's responsibility to know what's going on. Ignorance isn't a defense. Sitting back in some pseudo-utopian ignorant state, hoping all your bills to be paid is foolish.


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## On The Rock (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> If you worked there that long you should be painfully aware that all those retailers were operating in a pressured environment due to Walmart.


Glad to see this thread got back on the track of corporate greed. I think I mentioned this already in another thread somewhere, but if anyone here isn't familiar with the Walmart Effect, then google it and get an interesting business lesson. I think a lot of MBA programs study it.

But, hey, if the end is making more money, and if the end justifies the means (in other words, make more money no matter how you do it), there's nothing wrong with it, right?

I don't patronize companies that say, "True," to those 2 conditions....


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Five Arrows said:


> In When someone talks of corporate greed I think it is the executive that negotiates a golden parachute worth millions then makes short term decisions to boost the stock price at the expense of long term viability. Plunder the village and move on.
> 
> What I do have a problem with is someone making a lot at the expense of another person when it is in their ability to help them.


This right here is why America is becoming socialist counrty. Working, whether it be for yourself or somebody else has RISK. The difference is the executitve that can negotiate offers something different and CAN DEMAND more than a guy sweeping a broom, he offers value.

Companies only owe what they promise (Enron comes to mind). If they promise a certain compensation then they should pay it, but to expect a company to magically take care of it's employees is foolish thinking. This type of thinking carries with it the greates risk of any of the situations.

People are not entitled, that is such an illusion. People have the opporunity to invest and make sound decisions or go waste all the money they earn. 

On your second point: 

All companies make money at the expense of others, they make it off the back of others. That's capitalism, that's how it works.....it has to work this way. The guy that makes 5,000,000 a year MUST make a company money, the company also makes money off his back.

If people don't like how high some peoples wages are then get busy making it yourself. Truth be told, a shop clerk that makes $7 an hour and gets health insurance probably isn't really worth the compenstion they get.

People in all walks of life have opportunities and choices. Many people make poor choices in life and don't seize opportunites because that means they would need to stop watching TV. It's these same people that complain about others who made good choices in life and seized on opportunites.


*Question of the day:*

In America, when you graduate high school can this person create a good lifestyle with no further education? Can this person retire a multi-millioinaire?

I say yes, I say it's not a problem at all. Forget corporate greed, a person who is motivated and makes good choices.....and understands they have to sacrifice a little early on......can easily make it happen.

The truth is we live in an entitlement society so it's only available to the few who go get it. Everybody like to talk about others but never wants to talk about themselves. _"Help. I'm a victim"_

_Moral of the story: Worry about yourself and don't worry about others. _I can remember my Mom telling me that when I was a kid when I used to tattle on my bis sister .

Mike


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

We're a victimized society. A society crippled by a destructive societal belief of entitlement.

Talk to a WWII generation person about a hardship that befell them, ask them what they did, they'll tell you they sucked it up. "As a kid, my right arm got cut off when the railing I was leaning on broke and I fell onto the train tracks. -- What did you do? What could I do? I learned to write with my left hand. I went on to be the CEO of Coca-cola, raised a family and had a great life."

Have the same thing happen today and before the kid is out of the hospital his mom, aunt and the neighbor down the street will want to know if they have talked to a lawyer yet to sue the city, the railing manufacturer and the contractor who installed it. They won't have to look far because if the accident made the paper, 25 personal injury lawyers will be calling and waiting outside their house for them to come home offering their services to sue.

We're all first and foremost nothing but victims in America today, looking for everybody else to pay us at the slightest bit of discomfort we might have to face.

That's problem #1 victims. Problem #2 is derivative of problem #1, and that's the entitlement issues. Every punk gen yer thought he was entitled to a 30 hour a week job for $100,000 a year because his mom and teachers and everybody else for the last 18 years has been telling him that he is special. I got new for you Johnny, you ain't special. Getting to level 12 of whatever video game you play online just means you've spent too many hours doing something that's a waste of time. You ain't special. Life is going to kick you in the balls a few times. Other generations expected it and brushed them selves off, put some ice on their nuts and went on. You'll expect to sue somebody and be looking for your mom to tell you it's okay, you're special.

:laughing:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

what about the idiot that installed this railing?...sh*t happens?


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## Knighton (Feb 5, 2009)

A little side note on the subject of entitlements:

I had a guy approach me as I was pumping gas at Walmart. He said he had driven to Walmart but didn't have enough money to get back to where he and his wife were going. I asked him what exactly he wanted and he said anything I could spare. I then asked him what I was going to get in return. He looked at me with the most confused expression I've ever seen. He didn't know what to say, then I simply offerred to buy his watch for $20 (it was probably worth $1). He was still looking like I was insane for wanting anything from him. So I asked if his wife had any jewelry or anything of value that he could trade me for money. Again, he looked at me like I was crazy. I said to him that if he wasn't willing to part with anything of his then I wasn't willing to part with my money. Needless to say, he left me alone and found a more generous victim. It was an interesting experiment in entitlement vs. actual need.

Some of you may think I'm heartless and uncaring, but that's actually the exact opposite of who I am. I believe we as a society have created this entitlement monster and by doing so we have actually oppressed the ones we think we're helping. I think of it this way: If you do your child's homeworky and take their tests for them are you really helping them? I think most of us would say that you'd actually be keeping them from learning, progressing, and from growing up. I'm all about helping them, but the work is their's to do and that's how they learn.

I don't mind giving to someone who is in actual need, regardless of how they got there, but if they think they shouldn't have to part with anything in exchange, then they get nothing from me. See, nothing is free. I had to work for that $20 and the person who gave me the $20 worked for it and the person who gave it to that person earned, etc... 

What's that country song "...been knocked down by a slamming door, picked myself up and came back for more"


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

Knighton said:


> A little side note on the subject of entitlements:
> 
> I had a guy approach me as I was pumping gas at Walmart. He said he had driven to Walmart but didn't have enough money to get back to where he and his wife were going. I asked him what exactly he wanted and he said anything I could spare. I then asked him what I was going to get in return. He looked at me with the most confused expression I've ever seen. He didn't know what to say, then I simply offerred to buy his watch for $20 (it was probably worth $1). He was still looking like I was insane for wanting anything from him. So I asked if his wife had any jewelry or anything of value that he could trade me for money. Again, he looked at me like I was crazy. I said to him that if he wasn't willing to part with anything of his then I wasn't willing to part with my money. Needless to say, he left me alone and found a more generous victim. It was an interesting experiment in entitlement vs. actual need.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to take the time to tell you I really liked what you had to say. I also like the way you think. I'm sure you are really good people !!!


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

I find it ironic that people complain about any benefits they get as an employee, because looking at it black and white I have no idea what having a job has to do with having crappy teeth or bad sight.

The irony is that most employees need benefits, instead if making an extra 3 bucks an hour. Because if they got the money they would waste it, instead of saving 3 bucks an hour for insurance and dental appointments and such I dont provide benefits for my employees, but they can work as many hours as they want. They know thats they keep what they earn, nothing more and nothing less. 

Why would JCpenny pay healthcare for a 15hr a week employee? Talk about a free ride. The funny thing is, not to be harsh but the guy that posted that wouldn't go out and pay for health insurance for someone that was just hardly involved with him either. Entitlements are for PUSSIES.:clap:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

BattleRidge said:


> I find it ironic that people complain about any benefits they get as an employee, because looking at it black and white I have no idea what having a job has to do with having crappy teeth or bad sight.
> 
> The irony is that most employees need benefits, instead if making an extra 3 bucks an hour. Because if they got the money they would waste it, instead of saving 3 bucks an hour for insurance and dental appointments and such I dont provide benefits for my employees, but they can work as many hours as they want. They know thats they keep what they earn, nothing more and nothing less.
> 
> Why would JCpenny pay healthcare for a 15hr a week employee? Talk about a free ride. The funny thing is, not to be harsh but the guy that posted that wouldn't go out and pay for health insurance for someone that was just hardly involved with him either. Entitlements are for PUSSIES.:clap:


Outstanding:thumbsup:


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## Knighton (Feb 5, 2009)

Jimmy Cabinet said:


> I just wanted to take the time to tell you I really liked what you had to say. I also like the way you think. I'm sure you are really good people !!!


 
Thanks!!


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## On The Rock (Feb 5, 2010)

Knighton said:


> What's that country song "...been knocked down by a slamming door, picked myself up and came back for more"


"Had sure things blow up in my face, seen the long shot win the race.
Been knocked down by the slammin' door, picked myself up and came back for more."

"Life's A Dance" by John Michael Montgomery.

A pretty good song, catchy for sure. But in it he says, "You do have to give if you wanna receive."

Unfortunately, that's the kind of giving that these large corporations engage in. Do you think that their "giving" really costs them anything? Do you think they really feel it? No, their customers pay for it, and their "giving" is budgeted so as not to _negatively_ affect the bottom line. Oh, it's OK if it affects the bottom line _positively_, though. In fact, look at how many print ads, TV commercials, radio commercials, credit statement inserts, etc. these companies put out to show how philanthropic they are. Why? To make you feel good...about buying their product or service...so they can make more money...so they can buy more ads showing their benevolence...so they can make more money...repeat, repeat, repeat.

Any person or entity that "gives" to me expecting something in return has negated the quality of that thing being a gift. Conditional "giving" like that is selfish and does not have my best interests at heart. All they really care about is my money and getting as much of it as possible. Who can trust such a person or entity?


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## DBBII (Aug 28, 2008)

I get a kick out of the people who think the deserve health care, high salary, etc. Should the people who work at McDonalds make $20 an hour? Sure they should. Of course, what most people forget is that means Mickey D's would have to charge $20 for a hamburger.

Profit is not a dirty word. Unfortunately, when someone sees a company made a profit of, say $1 billion, they never figure out that if the company has 1 billion shares of stock, then the stockholder only gets $1. As someone mentioned earlier, there are people trying to live on their investments.


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## Knighton (Feb 5, 2009)

On The Rock said:


> "Had sure things blow up in my face, seen the long shot win the race.
> Been knocked down by the slammin' door, picked myself up and came back for more."
> 
> "Life's A Dance" by John Michael Montgomery.
> ...


 
Yeah, give some effort, time, skill, etc. if you want to receive. Nothing is free!


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## JamesDibben (Apr 5, 2010)

Luxury suite = marketing/customer appreciation

I do a $1,200.00 counter top job for a customer and send them a $50.00 gift card. A billion dollar company can't send a hundred million dollar customer a $50.00 gift card.

An insurance company needs all the hundred million dollar customers they can get so the clown (me) who pays them 3k a year can get a 50k oops paid for.

If you don't like the way a company spends its money then work your a$$ off for 40 years and take the CEO job.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Jimmy Cabinet said:


> Our suite that night was courtesy of State Farm Insurance who pays $250,000 a year for this suite that barely gets used except to woo business.


Lets look at this in simple terms... 250K a year to a business that large is like you buying a cup of coffee for a potential client. Is you buying a cup of coffee extravagant? 

Just answer that simple question.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

How about one 250,000 cup of coffee. It bet it would taste good.:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

They'd have to scrape ya off the moon. :laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

J F said:


> They'd have to scrape ya off the moon. :laughing:


When we go to Atlanta we eat at a steak joint called Mortens. They have a bottle of brandy that's 200 years old and it cost $300 a shot. Crazy

Mike


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I eat at this place called Micky D's...they have this drink called a Frappe, it's $2.79 + tax. :w00t:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

J F said:


> I eat at this place called Micky D's...they have this drink called a Frappe, it's $2.79 + tax. :w00t:


Yeah, I love Micky D's also, millions of customers can't be wrong.:laughing:


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## Schmidt & Co (Jun 2, 2008)

Enough of all this talk about corporate greed........




I want to hear more about the waitress with the bodacious ta-ta's! :whistling


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## On The Rock (Feb 5, 2010)

RobertCDF said:


> Lets look at this in simple terms... 250K a year to a business that large is like you buying a cup of coffee for a potential client. Is you buying a cup of coffee extravagant?
> 
> Just answer that simple question.


If nobody else will, I'll answer that question, Robert. If I understand what you mean by "extravagant," the answer is "no."

Of course, I'd rather brew that cup of coffee myself instead of paying for Starbuck's, you know, to save money and all. And I wonder how much that "gift" cup of coffee adds to the overall close-ability of the sale, which really is included in the budget, marked up, and eventually paid for by the customers anyway....

Just curious, Robert, about your question. Could you elaborate on your point? Thanks.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

On The Rock said:


> If nobody else will, I'll answer that question, Robert. If I understand what you mean by "extravagant," the answer is "no."
> 
> Of course, I'd rather brew that cup of coffee myself instead of paying for Starbuck's, you know, to save money and all. And I wonder how much that "gift" cup of coffee adds to the overall close-ability of the sale, which really is included in the budget, marked up, and eventually paid for by the customers anyway....
> 
> Just curious, Robert, about your question. Could you elaborate on your point? Thanks.


It's about bringing it into day to day perspective. Yes, the cup of coffee is ultimately paid by a customer, however do you think your customer is going to say "wow, you blew a bunch of money buying me that $4 cup of coffee, I know that is ultimately going to raise my proposal price and therefore I am now uninterested in doing business with you?"

Its all a numbers game and percentages. If you could take the profit margins of a small construction company and use those in a billion dollar business you would be filthy rich quicker than anyone. Before we bash big business and say stuff like "Well they don't make much per dollar but they have a lot of dollars" How would you like to work as hard as you do for 2 cents on the dollar? Would it be worth it? Big risk = big reward. I have 5 guys working for me, that means there are 5 more opportunities for them to cause damage resulting in me loosing money than if I worked alone. Is the risk worth it? most of the time yes, however I know at any time they may do something (accidents happen) that will cause me to loose money on a project. However I can get 5X more work done in hour... Risk... Reward... 

If you don't like how a company is run then stop patronizing them (including going to events they sponsor/give you tickets for)


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## On The Rock (Feb 5, 2010)

RobertCDF said:


> Yes, the cup of coffee is ultimately paid by a customer, however do you think your customer is going to say "wow, you blew a bunch of money buying me that $4 cup of coffee, I know that is ultimately going to raise my proposal price and therefore I am now uninterested in doing business with you?"


Well, for most people probably not, but my point was that most big companies' giving is not charitable in nature, that is, it is not unconditional, it is not a gift. They give with the expectation of getting something in return, either more patrons or better image...as long as it translates to more money for the company.



RobertCDF said:


> Its all a numbers game and percentages. How would you like to work as hard as you do for 2 cents on the dollar? Would it be worth it? Big risk = big reward... Risk... Reward...


Two cents on the dollar -- is that on State Farm's sales? Then, heck yeah. Oh, you mean on XYZ K&B Remodeling's sales? Ouch. Unfortunately, too many owners are collecting that or worse, but not if they've been on CT for very long....:thumbsup:



RobertCDF said:


> If you don't like how a company is run then stop patronizing them (including going to events they sponsor/give you tickets for)


That's good advice....Thanks for responding, Robert.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

On The Rock said:


> Well, for most people probably not, but my point was that most big companies' giving is not charitable in nature, that is, it is not unconditional, it is not a gift. They give with the expectation of getting something in return, either more patrons or better image...as long as it translates to more money for the company.


As is taking the customer (or potential customer) out for coffee... You are hoping that while treating the person to coffee you can further sell your self as being the best option.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

On The Rock said:


> Well, for most people probably not, but my point was that most big companies' giving is not charitable in nature, that is, it is not unconditional, it is not a gift. They give with the expectation of getting something in return, either more patrons or better image...as long as it translates to more money for the company.


Who cares, big corporations give millions to charities....they don't have to.

What's really the point? These are the same companies that provide jobs. More socialism? 

Start and run a billion dollar corporation and you can call the shots.

Mike


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## On The Rock (Feb 5, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Who cares, big corporations give millions to charities....they don't have to.


I'm sorry, Mike, that I couldn't connect the dots for you. That's OK, I realize the point I was getting at is not considered important by most people. Just thought I'd try....



Mike's Plumbing said:


> What's really the point? These are the same companies that provide jobs. More socialism?
> 
> Start and run a billion dollar corporation and you can call the shots.
> 
> Mike


Well, maybe I'll try from this angle: The motivation for a large insurance company's giving is a red flag for me. It's "fool me twice, shame on me," right? If I already know their true intentions, I should not be surprised when said insurance company "calls the shots" and denies my insurance claim for a fictitious reason. Or puts someone else's accident on my record.

This is not to say that I don't have insurance. I do. But I sure as heck don't trust them....


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