# Debate:



## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

smellslike$tome said:


> 6'/230lbs, short brown hair, goatee because it's the only decent facial hair I can grow and I've got to have something to at least hide some of the ugly, no tats, no tobacco(since 1987), maybe a 12 pack of beer per year, glasses, average as the day is long, but my wife and kids love me and I really couldn't dare ask for a better life.


Actually that's me in the Epson ad below!:w00t::laughing:


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Pex is not approved here, you can't use it. A few of the high rises I work in don't allow copper for that matter, all water and waste and vent is done in galvanized.


I don't know who makes the rules where you are but they have to get real and open their eyes, it isn't the 1920's anymore. I hate plastic, it's like legos for wanna be plumbers but, galvanized?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

wrenchman said:


> I don't know who makes the rules where you are but they have to get real and open their eyes, it isn't the 1920's anymore. I hate plastic, it's like legos for wanna be plumbers but, galvanized?


I don't mind doing galvanized, you actually have to be able to measure accurately and do proper take off's for it. If it were up to me all apprentices would do an entire house with galv. water and waste and vent, cutting all the threads by hand, it would teach them an appreciation of what they have today.


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## PARA 1 (Jul 10, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> I don't mind doing galvanized, you actually have to be able to measure accurately and do proper take off's for it. If it were up to me all apprentices would do an entire house with galv. water and waste and vent, cutting all the threads by hand, it would teach them an appreciation of what they have today.


*" WHAT HE SAID" :thumbsup:*


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

wrenchman said:


> I don't know who makes the rules where you are but they have to get real and open their eyes, it isn't the 1920's anymore. I hate plastic, it's like legos for wanna be plumbers but, galvanized?


Everything changes. So does the plumbing world. I've been in the trade for 8 years this month. That's not very long compared to a lot of you. I've met all of my State's certification requirements for Master Plumber. If someone set all the necessary tools and materials in front of me I could not produce a satisfactory lead joint. I haven't threaded pipe in probably 6 or 7 years but I could do that if necessary. I have installed miles of plastic "plumbing" pipe both dwv and water distribution.I wake up every morning, get in my "plumbing" truck, loaded with my "plumbing" tools, "plumbing" repair parts and fixtures, then I drive to people's houses and solve their "plumbing" problems. I'm building a successful "plumbing" business doing it. So if you are going to tell me that I am a "wanna be plumber" might I suggest that you head on over to the Ridgid site, ... you'll fit right in with the other dinosaurs.

I'm not stupid and I have no doubt that with proper instruction I could very quickly learn to produce lead joints, but why? There is absolutely no need for this skill in my market. There is virtually no need for galvanized piping in my market. When the need arises I will adapt and learn new skills that prove necessary but why would I want to invest the time and effort and purchase necessary tools for skills that are not necessary?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

smellslike$tome said:


> I'm not stupid and I have no doubt that with proper instruction I could very quickly learn to produce lead joints, but why? There is absolutely no need for this skill in my market. There is virtually no need for galvanized piping in my market. When the need arises I will adapt and learn new skills that prove necessary but why would I want to invest the time and effort and purchase necessary tools for skills that are not necessary?


Yarning and pouring lead joints is not that difficult, but then again, I've been doing it for close to twenty years, and still do it to this day. Now wiping a lead joint on a lead water service, that is an art, and it takes true skill to do it well, I am proud that I posses the skill to do it. That being said, I have no clue what is involved in using Pex pipe, and you younger guys could probably install PVC waste and vent a lot faster than I can, as I might do two jobs a year where PVC is allowed.

Knowledge is never a bad thing in this trade, especially for guys that do service work, you never know what you are going to find in an old building.


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Yarning and pouring lead joints is not that difficult, but then again, I've been doing it for close to twenty years, and still do it to this day. Now wiping a lead joint on a lead water service, that is an art, and it takes true skill to do it well, I am proud that I posses the skill to do it. That being said, I have no clue what is involved in using Pex pipe, and you younger guys could probably install PVC waste and vent a lot faster than I can, as I might do two jobs a year where PVC is allowed.
> 
> Knowledge is never a bad thing in this trade, especially for guys that do service work, you never know what you are going to find in an old building.


I completely agree about knowledge and I hope no one gets the wrong idea, I am certainly not anti-old salty plumber. Every one of us learned from plumbers who knew what we did not. Some things seem to have had their day though. I encounter cast iron all the time. Very often I have to repair it which usually means cutting out whatever has to be changed, replacing it with pvc and no hubs, (and yes I always make sure that the remaining ci is properly supported).


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## Herk (Aug 1, 2007)

I think that the 18" rule is a carryover from polybutylene. One of poly's problems was that it had to cool down at least one hour per day. So, you couldn't use it for a recirculating line on a water heater, for example. Keeping it 18" away from the water heater made good sense, and you'd hope that there wasn't a leaking hot water faucet somewhere in the house.

When the switch to PEX happened, they basically retained the rules used for PB. I'm hoping some of them have either changed or will change. For example, I can see no reason to have a copper bend stubbed out of the wall when PEX will take more abuse during the construction process.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Smellslike,*
* I had the same chat with Killer when I first joined..the very mention of using galvy on potable puts a Don Rickles "what are you talking about?!?" expression on my face.*
*Apparently it's the best option in that instance.*


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