# Customer won’t let us return to work.



## BolaGarnier (May 14, 2018)

*Being taken to small claims court.*

I’m a California licensed contractor. A recently former client ran out of money due to too many change orders. He couldn’t pay us. We couldn’t work. Simple as that. He filed a claim against my bond and general liability in an attempt to get money. He claimed we abandoned the job. We didn’t. I proved my point and his claim was rejected by both. He then filed a claim with the CSLB. In the letter they send out to both client and contractor, it states that we should try to work things out. I reached out to him and we both agreed that we would return and finish the job based upon what was
remaining in the contract. A few hours after our conversation,(which by the way I had a friend listening to the conversation on another phone because I didn’t trust the client) He received his letter from the CSLB. I guess he felt some sense of empowerment and sent me a text stating he “just received his letter from the CSLB. He has decided to cancel our agreement for me to return to work.” Now he is taking me to small claims court. I feel I have done all I can to help him and he is just after money that he doesn’t deserve. He has absolutely no interest in the job being completed. What are my options? By the way, I can document everything I just wrote in texts, emails and witnesses. Thank you.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Tell him to go F%&* himself, you'll see him court.

Then sue him for breach of contract. If the amount is over 5K, then you can take it to big-boy court. :thumbsup:


Edit: Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney, just a GC with a bad attitude.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

You are not allowed to stop work on a job you agreed to. Doesn't matter how much he hasn't paid. 


Mike.
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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

You need to complete the job and sue him for what he owes. 


Mike.
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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> You are not allowed to stop work on a job you agreed to. Doesn't matter how much he hasn't paid.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Depends.

If there are progress payments in the contract, with stop work provisions for non-payment, you can.

Just like if they hold up making a selection. Can't install something they won't pick out.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Depends.
> 
> If there are progress payments in the contract, with stop work provisions for non-payment, you can.
> 
> Just like if they hold up making a selection. Can't install something they won't pick out.




It's called a "disputed amount". Still needs to move forward with the job and use the courts or mediation to settle that amount. Somethings are not allowed in contracts. In other words a contract cannot skirt the law. Regardless of the language.


Mike.
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## BolaGarnier (May 14, 2018)

There were progress payments but no stop work provisions for non-payment. I feel he breached the contract several ways: I discover he brought in day laborers one weekend in an attempt to move the job along and deduct payment. He also refused delivery of materials that he agreed upon. That refusal cost me over $2000. Nevertheless, we wanted to finish the job but he won’t let us. By the way, the work stoppage lasted one day.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

BolaGarnier said:


> There were progress payments but no stop work provisions for non-payment. I feel he breached the contract several ways: I discover he brought in day laborers one weekend in an attempt to move the job along and deduct payment. He also refused delivery of materials that he agreed upon. That refusal cost me over $2000. Nevertheless, we wanted to finish the job but he won’t let us. By the way, the work stoppage lasted one day.




He probably feels you breached the contract. That's what courts and mediation is for. However, in Cali, the courts tend to side with the Home owners. The CSLB isn't there to help you. Their primary purpose is to help Home Owners. 


Mike.
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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The reason you are not allowed to stop work is mainly safety reasons. If I don't get my draw for the decking, I can't walk away and leave the deck without handrails. 


Mike.
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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

If a customer hasn't picked out materials, they are the ones stopping the job. Not you. Big difference.


Mike.
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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

in calif courts a contractor is predisposed to be in the wrong....

good luck, but have your checkbook ready....


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> It's called a "disputed amount". Still needs to move forward with the job and use the courts or mediation to settle that amount. Somethings are not allowed in contracts. In other words a contract cannot skirt the law. Regardless of the language.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


So if I'm doing a $million+ custom home, with dozens of progress payments, and after foundation is poured, HO stops paying, I have to finance the entire job, then sue him at the end? :no:

I've always been under the impression, and I discussed this with my attorney, that I can put in a provision that CO's must be paid at the time of acceptance, and that failure to make timely progress payments will hold up the job.

You're saying this won't hold up in court?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> So if I'm doing a $million+ custom home, with dozens of progress payments, and after foundation is poured, HO stops paying, I have to finance the entire job, then sue him at the end? :no:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A stop work notice has to meet strict requirements. One undotted "I" or crossed tee. And you are SOL. 

Here's what I found. 



> California Business & Professions Code § 7107 prohibits Abandonment of a Project by a Contractor without legal excuse. This means that a Contractor cannot walk off a job unless certain conditions are met. Simple disputes with customers, generally homeowners, are not enough to justify walking off a job. There must be a legal reason that the Contractor cannot complete the work.
> 
> Payment disputes are the main reasons that Contractors abandon jobs or projects in California. Payment disputes are not enough to allow a Contractor to immediately abandon a job. Remember, the Contractor must have a legal excuse for Abandonment of a Job. A Contractor cannot ever demand more money from a customer than the contract with the customer specifies, and then abandon the project if the homeowner refuses to pay. If a customer refuses to pay a Contractor as specified per the contract, there are steps that the Contractor must take before Abandonment of a Project.
> 
> ...


http://contractorlicensedefense.com/blog/abandonment-of-a-project



Mike.
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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> So if I'm doing a $million+ custom home, with dozens of progress payments, and after foundation is poured, HO stops paying, I have to finance the entire job, then sue him at the end? :no:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So you are correct, there's a way to stop work, but it sure seems to favor the Home Owner. 


Mike.
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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The trick is to not technically stop the job. You are on hold until paid. 


Mike.
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## daffysplumbing (Oct 16, 2017)

How to win your case! Preparation! Preparation! Preparation!

I've been in business just about 50 years, sued several customers in small claims court and my company was sued a few times. I lost only 1 case and the reason was because the judge and customer were from the same country.

You have to remember that the only thing the judge cares about is what is written on the contract and then only facts that can be proved. Everything else is B.S..

Never go to court expecting that you will win even when you are 100% positive that everything you did was the right thing to do. Judges are very opinionated and they jump and bounce around all over the place and cannot always get a grasp on the chronological order of events nor regarding what really happened.

When you go to court your customer gets to speak first. You need to put every paper in a folder in a very organized manner. You should already know almost exactly what your customer is going to tell the judge. Prepare your folder in an organized manner so you can disprove everything your customer tells the judge.

I just settled a $1.2 million lawsuit for $25,000 and I credit winning the case to furnishing the attorneys unbelievably accurate records and charts. Visual aids are much more powerful than words. Use MS Word or a similar program to create a calendar. On the calendar you use different colors to fill the entire box for different purposes. I do not put Sundays on my calendars because they are not work days. If you do not work on Saturdays then leave those days off the calendar.

Color the day you signed the contract with pink.
Use green for the days you worked on the job.
Use red for the days you wanted to work on the job, but the customer stopped you.
Use black for the days you did not want to work on the job.

It is very critical to put colors on the calendar for the days you intended to work to finish the job. I will explain at the end of this post.

For each day, you make notes about what happened that day.
If you ordered materials you put the day number on your receipts.
If the customer told you not to work then you write a memo and put the date on the memo.

Judges tend to believe people more when they are organized and have proof for everything they say. Give the judge one chart and copies of all your records to the judge.

I always try to avoid going to court and when the customer is too furious to talk to me I will have someone else try to negotiate. The first thing the negotiator needs to do is listen to the customer and ask him what went wrong. Then, the negotiator needs to ask what can be done to satisfy him. Then, the customer has opened himself up for negotiating. I always tell my customers I want to settle because nobody knows who will win, nobody wants to waste time thinking about the case every day and because settling out of court can result in a scenario when everyone is satisfied. When trying to negotiate you need to listen very carefully because everything your customer tells you, or your negotiator is what your customer is going to tell the judge. So, trying to negotiate is your most powerful advantage that will help you to win.

I've been contracting for 50 years and never heard that a contractor has to finish a job when the customer does not make a payment when due. Of course, safety is a concern, but a contractor is supposed to keep a job safe at all times while he is working.

I would not mention Stop Notices to the court. Stop Notices are not to stop a job. Stop Notices are sent to banks so the bank stops paying other contractors until you are paid.

Probably, the most common reason contractors lose cases in court is because the only thing a customer needs to do is find a few very insignificant things you did wrong on the job. These things can be 1 missing screw on a door hinge and a wood molding with a nail sticking out. When the customer combines all the small things you did wrong you look like the worse contractor in the world and you lose.

The way you overcome the things your customer claims you did wrong is by using the chart calendar. You tell the judge.

1) This is the day we signed the contract.

2) These are the days we worked and this is what we did.

3) You acknowledge that your work had imperfections on specific days noted on the calendar.

4) You put the blame for imperfections on an employee, or maybe just admit that you had a bad day.

5) Put the blame on the customer. You show the judge the calendar, say that the job was in progress, you knew about the corrections and according to your calendar you had plenty of time to rectify the problems, but it was the customer who got anxiety problems and who could not understand that every job has corrections made to it as the job progresses and that the correct time for the customer to complain would be ON THIS DATE on the chart, the expected completion date as stated in both the contract and on this calendar, and it was the customer who breached the contract when he refused to make the payment when it was due.

If you want to win then do the preparation you need and be so organized you blow the judge's mind.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> You are not allowed to stop work on a job you agreed to. Doesn't matter how much he hasn't paid.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Doubt thats right. What if your contract says you stop if you dont get paid? How can you be expected to work for free


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

California is a pretty ****ed up place from what yall post here

You dont pay me i stop work, lien and sue one right afted the other and it will happen in my county by contract and ill end up with a house or the judgment eventually. Contracts iron clad written by the state builders association. An email will suffice stopping work for non payment


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Another thing thats legal in Texas and in my contract-

I can record any conversation after signing the contract without prior authorization 

No need for the friend to listen. Judge or mediator can listen to my recording


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

griz said:


> in calif courts a contractor is predisposed to be in the wrong....
> 
> good luck, but have your checkbook ready....


After reading Mikes post on the CA law I’d recommend OP also have his bags packed. Might be time to make a break for the border. :biggrin2:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Big difference between commercial and "Home Improvement" contracts in California.




This ^^^^^ statement can't be emphasized enough. In fact I don't think the board really regulates commercial. 


Mike.
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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> This ^^^^^ statement can't be emphasized enough. In fact I don't think the board really regulates commercial.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Very true....:thumbsup:

and now we also have the DIR....:no:


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## daffysplumbing (Oct 16, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> This ^^^^^ statement can't be emphasized enough. In fact I don't think the board really regulates commercial.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


The contractor board regulates commercial work just like residential when contractors abandon jobs, take too much money down, do shoddy work, fail to get permits, violate other construction laws, exceed completion dates, not paying worker comp insurance, mis-classifying employees, tax fraud, felonies both work and personal related and much more. Otherwise, why would a contractor doing commercial work need a license.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

daffysplumbing said:


> The contractor board regulates commercial work just like residential when contractors abandon jobs, take too much money down, do shoddy work, fail to get permits, violate other construction laws, exceed completion dates, not paying worker comp insurance, mis-classifying employees, tax fraud, felonies both work and personal related and much more. Otherwise, why would a contractor doing commercial work need a license.


In my world of commercial there are way more powerful forces in play that make the CSLB pale....


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

*Being taken to small claims court.*



daffysplumbing said:


> The contractor board regulates commercial work just like residential when contractors abandon jobs, take too much money down, do shoddy work, fail to get permits, violate other construction laws, exceed completion dates, not paying worker comp insurance, mis-classifying employees, tax fraud, felonies both work and personal related and much more. Otherwise, why would a contractor doing commercial work need a license.



They don't protect contractors against contractors, like they do Home Owners. In fact as far as I know contractor to contractor doesn't even require a contract. 



Mike.
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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

daffysplumbing said:


> The contractor board regulates commercial work just like residential when contractors abandon jobs, take too much money down, do shoddy work, fail to get permits, violate other construction laws, exceed completion dates, not paying worker comp insurance, mis-classifying employees, tax fraud, felonies both work and personal related and much more. Otherwise, why would a contractor doing commercial work need a license.




Show me anywhere a sub contractor can take too much money down, from a GC. 


Mike.
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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Show me anywhere a sub contractor can take too much money down, from a GC.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Not a GC alive gonna give too much money down to s sub.....:laughing:

for that matter not likely to get any money down....:whistling


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I paid down to a lot of Subs. Cabinets, granite and appliances or 50%. Plumbing fixtures and light fixtures due on receipt.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

*Being taken to small claims court.*



griz said:


> Not a GC alive gonna give too much money down to s sub.....:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> for that matter not likely to get any money down....:whistling




Agreed, but I don't think it's regulated. 


Mike.
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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Agreed, but I don't think it's regulated.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


agreed...:thumbsup:

also i agree with you about no state requirement for a contract with a sub but they have been in place for every job i have ever been on.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

griz said:


> agreed...:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> also i agree with you about no state requirement for a contract with a sub but they have been in place for every job i have ever been on.




Yep, Contracts are more prevalent in Commercial. The irony is, they are SOP for commercial and not required, and required for Home improvements and commonly not used. 


Mike.
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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Jaws said:


> I paid down to a lot of Subs. Cabinets, granite and appliances or 50%. Plumbing fixtures and light fixtures due on receipt.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Same here. Most just want to be paid at the end of the job but there are a few who like some up front.


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## daffysplumbing (Oct 16, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> They don't protect contractors against contractors, like they do Home Owners. In fact as far as I know contractor to contractor doesn't even require a contract.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can't be serious saying contractors don't need contracts when working for other contractors. So, you are saying I can work for a general contractor to build a hotel without writing any contract?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

daffysplumbing said:


> You can't be serious saying contractors don't need contracts when working for other contractors. So, you are saying I can work for a general contractor to build a hotel without writing any contract?




Yep. Contracts are only required for home improvements, with a home owner. 


Mike.
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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

daffysplumbing said:


> You can't be serious saying contractors don't need contracts when working for other contractors. So, you are saying I can work for a general contractor to build a hotel without writing any contract?





Californiadecks said:


> Yep. Contracts are only required for home improvements, with a home owner.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


:jester: let me get this straight .... Smart people use contracts and the GUBERMENT dictates to dumb people they have to have one. Through regulation punishing the contractor for not having or one that "protects" the dumb people at the contractors expense. All is justified because everybody should have a contract anyway. The contractor should know better so he/she gets pinched if something is not right. Yet there are still jobs being done without contracts. Dumb people doing dumb things and smart people still doing smart things. 

Rube Goldberg would be proud of this system and line of thinking.


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## daffysplumbing (Oct 16, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> Yep. Contracts are only required for home improvements, with a home owner.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Here is a link to:

REQUIRED PROVISIONS FOR CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS IN CALIFORNIA

https://calconstructionlawblog.com/...ons-for-construction-contracts-in-california/

So, if there are Required Provisions for Construction Contracts then why would California have these REQUIRED provisions if contracts with contractors are not required?

You can do every job for homeowners, contractors and commercial jobs without a license and without a contract if you love pain, loss and suffering.

When you go to court or when a complaint is filed with the contractor board you won't have a leg to stand on and you automatically lose. The first and only thing the contractor board or a court will look at for any problem with every type of customer and job is the written contract. 

The contractor board will get involved and you can lose your license when you violate the items mentioned in my previous post.

There are contractor laws specific for homeowner, specific laws for working for other contractors (sub contracting) and laws that apply to both homeowners and sub contracting, combined.

I can't believe that I am writing this, or the boat left many years ago and I missed it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

daffysplumbing said:


> Here is a link to:
> 
> REQUIRED PROVISIONS FOR CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTS IN CALIFORNIA
> 
> ...




Show me the statutory law that requires a contract between two contractors. I'll wait. 


Mike.
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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The provisions are to insure a license isn't being misrepresented in any language. 


Mike.
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## daffysplumbing (Oct 16, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> Show me the statutory law that requires a contract between two contractors. I'll wait.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


To say that contracts for commercial jobs, or contracts between contractors is not required is absurd.

If contracts are not required, then why does the California contractor law require that contracts between two contractors include a Preliminary Notice, license number on the contract and the notice where to complain if the buyer (other contractor) has to file a complaint. If contract are not required between contractors then contractor licenses are not required.

To say that the contractor board does not regulate contractors for commercial jobs is absurd. When an agency issues a license then that agency governs and regulates the laws for that license. You statement is basically saying that a licensed contractor has no laws and no agency that control and govern the license.

I am repairing some drains next week at the Los Angeles airport. I have to abide by California construction laws regulated by the contractor board. As with residential job, I still have to put my state license number on the contract, or when something goes wrong and that license number is not on the contract I will be in deep how water with the contractor board.

I have to put an approximate starting and completion date on my contract. If I exceed my approximate completion date and the airport files a complaint with the contractor board I will have to answer to the contractor board and I could lose my license.

If I abandon the airport job and the airport files a complaint with the contractor board I will have to answer to the contractor board and I could lose my license. I can go on and on and it does not make sense to say that the contractor board does not regulate commercial jobs and that contractors do not need contracts for commercial jobs or when working for other contractors.

I am finished and will not respond to this absurd discussion.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

daffysplumbing said:


> To say that contracts for commercial jobs, or contracts between contractors is not required is absurd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Show me the statute. Or STFU. 


Mike.
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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

WBailey1041 said:


> Matt, you are reading my mind. I only know of one contractor in the last 10 years that has stood in front of a judge for a work related lawsuit. He deserved it, took it like a man then learned and grew from it. I take that as a testament to the way that I do business and the way that those I choose to associate with do business.
> 
> These folks show up here with low post counts and huge problems and claim to have contracts, pictures, certified letters and then disappear once they realize we don’t have a silver bullet are the people I don’t want to associate with. (That’s a long run on sentence!)Most of these one post wonders don’t even list a website. I don’t need pictures of their work. I’ve been doing this long enough to know that if they’re reaching out to strangers for help they’re desperate for a reason.
> 
> ...


This post is a keeper. Should be made into boiler plate and handed out to all the CT newbies.


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## TitanCR (Apr 15, 2017)

SmallTownGuy said:


> This post is a keeper. Should be made into boiler plate and handed out to all the CT newbies.


do i get one? i’m a CT newbie.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TitanCR said:


> do i get one? i’m a CT newbie.


Fill your boots champ.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

TitanCR said:


> do i get one? i’m a CONTRACTING newbie.


Fixed that for ya. 😂


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## TitanCR (Apr 15, 2017)

WBailey1041 said:


> Fixed that for ya. 😂


:laughing: thank you thank you. it’s true. i’m young. and newb. got lots to learn.


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## Rlelli (8 mo ago)

Calidecks said:


> You are not allowed to stop work on a job you agreed to. Doesn't matter how much he hasn't paid.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


You are incorrect. If there are progress draws or change orders that aren't being paid, the contractor can stop work until payment is made.


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## hoye0017 (Sep 17, 2020)

Rlelli said:


> You are incorrect. If there are progress draws or change orders that aren't being paid, the contractor can stop work until payment is made.


…or in case of zombies, like this thread…


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