# Help with bad paint on cabinets. Ok to sand final coat of paint before Poly coat?



## RDBD (Sep 10, 2010)

Hi all, 

Need some advice.
After trying to color match a subway tile at HD and SW, HD surprisingly did a better match. I am painting a kitchen in a monochromatic color scheme and used a deep cappachino color on the lower cabinets, but the wall color, and upper cabinets are color matched to the tile backsplash to give the kitchen a bigger more open feel.
I used the new Rustoleum Cabinet Refinishing kit for the lowers but on the uppers, I am using what's left of the Behr Premium Plus in Satin that I used on the walls and it's turning into a nightmare. I am trying to get a nice smooth finish but the Behr paint gets sticky way too fast and it's drying on my paint tray and roller while I'm working causing me to be rolling and brushing on little flecks of dried paint on the cabinet doors. By the time I pick those out, its getting too dry to run the brush over again. I ended up sanding what should have been the last coat and added Floetrol to keep it workable longer and added another coat but it didn't help and they still look like crap. Especially the edges.
I don't know if it has anything to do with the fact that I had a custom color mixed or what but I am hating this paint. 
My question is, since I will be putting on a coat or 2 of water based poly that came with the Rustoleum kit used on the lowers so they will match in sheen, can I go ahead and sand that last coat of paint first?
After I sand, I can see the differences on the surface where the sanding is dulling the raised part of the wood grain more then the lower parts that are a little shinier if that makes sense. In other words, you can _see_ that the last coat has been sanded is what I'm trying to describe. It seems to me that this shouldn't show once the Poly goes on but I just want to be sure.
(PS...anyone know why my profile still says new guy?)
Thanks!


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## shives (Nov 12, 2011)

*bad cab paint*

all clear coats mirror the surface. so if it looks rough from sanding that is how it will look. try using soft bristle brush and a foam flock roller cover (wizz yellow foam flock) to make it look smooth then clear coat.


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

Oh man. Behr wall paint on cabinets? Should be using a high quality enamel or my preference for cabinets, alkyd. What does a rustoleum cabinet refinishing kit consist of?
Have you painted cabinets before? If your not very experienced its a heck of a place to learn. When working with latex on cabinets you really have to move your ass or you will have nasty brush marks and raised areas where it started to dry (all around the raised panel usually) before you got to that area.


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## shives (Nov 12, 2011)

*bad paint*

Yes i agree you need a good enamel for cabinets and wall paint should not be used on them but the clear coat will give you the durability. so add at least 8oz of extender to the paint so it flows nicely


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## RDBD (Sep 10, 2010)

I know, I know....shoulda went with enamel but it was a color matching nightmare choosing paint to begin with and I figured it wouldn't matter so much since I was going over it with a couple of coats of poly anyway.....Wrong!
(I had originally planned to have them mix the other quart from the rustoleum cabinet kit to match my wall color...it came with 2 quarts to be mixed to whatever color you planned to use.. but that got wasted on a different shade that I didn't end up using on the walls...thats why I ended up just having to use the wall paint that I choose).
SuperiorHip - There are 2 sized Rustoleum kits as well as kits for light colors and kits for dark colors I believe...You can also choose your own colors that aren't shown on the box...I got the large one that comes with a large bottle of deglosser and scrub pads, 2 quarts of bond coat, a pint of glaze for added color depth (which is optional to use but I planned to use glaze for added depth to my cappicino colored lowers anyway) and a quart of Protective Top Coat (which I assume is water based poly but now that I've looked again, I'm really not sure. It's milky white in the can and when it first goes on but dries clear with a satin finish with claims that only 1 coat is needed and will not yellow over time...(I've attach photo of kit as well as a pic of how lowers turned out...I have since tiled the missing backsplash)
Anyway...I priced out buying everything separately vs buying this kit, but since glaze is so expensive, the kit saved me quite a bit. It worked out great on the lowers and I'm happy with those results. (no pics of the nightmare I'm describing yet).
I have painted cabinets before, by the way.....Never had problems like this.
I have a good quality soft Wooster brush and tried just using that alone but it was drying too fast...The next coat I tried rolling on to get it covered fast, then dragging the paint brush across to smooth it out the bumpiness from the roller, but it still dried too fast. (Theres a 1/4 routered edge that is especially frustrating). 
Anyway...what's done is done as far as painting goes...I just wonder if I sand or smooth out with a nylon pad, which seems to leave some areas still a little shinier than others, if it will show different like that through the poly coats too? Seems to me that the poly will cover and coat all of those shiny/dull areas, providing an equal amount of sheen across the doors? I know that a smooth paint finish comes from sanding between coats but couldn't find any info on sanding the last paint coat before applying poly?????
If that's not going to work, then I guess I can lightly sand one more time, try one more coat with the yellow foam roller cover that "shives" suggests and just pray that I can get a smooth coat on before it starts drying, then do the clear coat. What would you do?
Phew! That sure got long fast! Thanks guys!


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

You really need to dump the wall paint, if the color is good take it to a decent paint store and get a quality product. Unfortunately I think you are looking at a fair amount of sanding a recoat. Benjamin Moore Regal enamel is what I use on trim when it calls for latex. Sherwin Williams has fine products as well, just not sure of their product names.
If the poly is milky it is latex and doesn't yellow.


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## shives (Nov 12, 2011)

Let the paint dry then apply clear coat. No sanding final coat of paint. But make sure the clear coat is the same sheen or has more sheen then the paint.


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## RDBD (Sep 10, 2010)

SuperiorHip - I know that you're probably right but I've done too many trips to the paint stores already for color matching and am sure that I can get this to work out fine...It's just going to take a little work. In hindsight, even though HD did a better color match than SW, I wish I had gone with the SW. I'm sure once the clear coats are on, they will be plenty durable and look nice though. 
They aren't so horrible that I want to start over.
Guess if I shouldn't sand last coat before poly then I'll have to sand again & try one more coat with a foam roller and hope that I can get it on there fast enough to get a smooth enough finish for the clear coat. I was sooo hoping that a light sanding over the last coat of paint would have been fine that I was tempted to just try it on one door. I still might sand the back of one door, then apply a poly coat to see if the shiny/dull from the last sanding shows through the poly or not. ("Shives", both the Poly and the paint are Satin so should be fine together)
It's not so much the painting that I dread.....I'm just tired of waiting for them to dry and looking at all of the crap in the cabinets with the doors removed! I've been dying to put the clear coats on and get them hung again! It's holding up all of the other work I need to do in this kitchen!
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll let you know how it goes!


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

for future reference i would recommend a waterborne alkyd. kelly moore calls it hybrid, bm calls it advance and sw calls it proclassic. i've only used the kelly moore, but i'm sure they're all comparable and they work well.


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