# Twist and wirenut, or just wirenut?



## Ponsse (Dec 12, 2007)

Years ago (early 80's) in trade school, we were taught to strip our wires long, then twist them, cut them off shorter and then wirenut. We spent a whole afternoon at this, making sure sure 2 wires didn't just wrap themselves around the third so the third could pull out. We couldn't use our linesman's or any tool to twist tight because we would damage the conductors and everybody's finger were sore at the end. The retired electrician that was brought in to teach certain subjects thought the sore fingers were very amusing and told us that we would toughen up in time.
After school and going to work I remember doing this for a while, but nowdays I don't, and never see anybody else twisting first, it seems that the wirenut does a good enough job of this.

Do any of you older electricians still twist first?


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I do but use pliers. My sparky does it that way too.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

Ponsse said:


> Years ago (early 80's) in trade school, we were taught to strip our wires long, then twist them, cut them off shorter and then wirenut. We spent a whole afternoon at this, making sure sure 2 wires didn't just wrap themselves around the third so the third could pull out. We couldn't use our linesman's or any tool to twist tight because we would damage the conductors and everybody's finger were sore at the end. The retired electrician that was brought in to teach certain subjects thought the sore fingers were very amusing and told us that we would toughen up in time.
> After school and going to work I remember doing this for a while, but nowdays I don't, and never see anybody else twisting first, it seems that the wirenut does a good enough job of this.
> 
> Do any of you older electricians still twist first?


I find twisting them first is important. And I'm not that old. I have spent almost 1/2 of my electrical career as a service tech. I cannot count how many melted wirenuts have been the cause of a service call. And every single one I have seen could have been avoided if the wires had been twisted with kleins first.

It is too easy to misalign the wires under the wirenut and never notice it until it burns up. I find I can twist the wire with my kleins just as fast, if not faster, than taking the time to twist a wirenut enough to twist the wires together. I once had to let a guy go from my crew because he wouldn't pretwist. He kept arguing that it wasn't required. I said "maybe not, but I would like it if you did, pretty please". He kept arguing, then said he would comply. I followed him and check some taps. I asked again. He got pissed that I checked his taps. 

It all ended with "get your  tools, get in your  truck..." and ya'll know the rest.

InPhase277


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Interesting reading even for a plumber like me.Good advice.I will make it a point to twist with pliers.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

threaderman said:


> Interesting reading even for a plumber like me.Good advice.I will make it a point to twist with pliers.


I used to twist my 1/2" copper together before soldering. I had to give up the technique. The plastic would burn off the wire nut and the tubing kept leaking.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

The 3M wirenuts (3M Performance+)will make up nice w/o pre-twisting...those are the blue/orange, red/yellow, blue/grey styles shown.

The one that is just red, is a Buchanan/Scothlock - both POS that feel like garbage as they go on and are a PITA to remove.

The 3Ms DO cost more...but are a superior product compared to any other wirenut I have used.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

I say twist. 

It consolidates the wires together in the box better as well. I agree if you're not carefull you can damage the wires if you ham-fist it with your LP.

One of my biggest pet peaves is opening up a box & finding a rats nest. 

And it's always the helper's fault when you bring it up. :whistling


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

My grandfather taught me to twist first 40+ years ago. Been doin' it that way ever since.


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## zesone (Jul 19, 2007)

I was taught that by twisting the wires together, you arent relying on the wire nut as the means of completing the circuit.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

NOT THIS AGAIN! :blink: :shutup: :shutup: :shutup:


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

It doesn't matter if you pre-twist or not! The splice should look the same in the end. 
If you do not -pre twist, and the wires are not twisted by the wire nut you did NOT do it right. Period.


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## pudge565 (Jan 26, 2008)

I am currently in vo-tech my teacher tells us he wants us to twist em first. I don't see how you would damage the conductor anyway since you cut the tip off.:jester::thumbup::clap:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

pudge565 said:


> I am currently in vo-tech my teacher tells us he wants us to twist em first.


Let's not confuse what someone "wants" and what is "required".



Speedy Petey said:


> NOT THIS AGAIN! :blink: :shutup: :shutup: :shutup:


Why stop there?



If an inspector wants you to install all your 125v 15/20A recept.s ground UP ~ will you remove them and flip them to accommodate him?

::flees the scene::


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## excellencee (Feb 1, 2007)

I tell my boys that you do whatever the boss wants. At school the boss is the teacher. On my job its me. Luckaly we both twist.


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## Electricmanscot (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm a twister from way back. A couple wraps of tape can't hurt either.:clap:


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Here's the REAL Twister-!


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## jcalvin (Feb 1, 2008)

Greenies vs. Crimps 
To Twist or not To Twist
Solder or Wire Nut
12/2 vs. 14/2
Ground Up vs. Ground Down
Switch leg on Top or Bottom of a Switch
Plate Screws Vertical or Horizontal
Ford vs Chevy
....

There are a thousand more of them out there. The only way to do it is to twist them first. 

Just remember, The way I do it is the right way to do it. :thumbup:


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## dkillianjr (Aug 28, 2006)

Yup I always pretwist too, my dad taught me that way. It makes a tighter connection and the box looks nicer and more organized.


Dave


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> It makes a tighter connection and the box looks nicer and more organized.


 
In some cases the connection may be tighter but if I put 2 or 3 #12's under a red wing nut and crank it down, the wires will twist themselves.


I don't understand how the JB would be any cleaner though???




> I cannot count how many melted wirenuts have been the cause of a service call. And every single one I have seen could have been avoided if the wires had been twisted with kleins first


 
Or if the wirenut had simply been tighten properly.




I'm old. I started wiring in the mid 70's.

I only twist when I have to.....which is rarely.

If I have to take a slice apart and redo it, perhaps adding a couple more wires, sometimes twistin is necessary.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Just call me Chubby Checker.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> Here a product to offer one solution to the wear and tear on the wrist, but I think it's the stupidist thing I've seen in a while:


That may be true...but did you buy one anyway? :laughing:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Celtic said:


> That may be true...but did you buy one anyway? :laughing:


No, but I thought about it. Sometimes I will buy a gadget just to see if it sucks as much as I thought it would. Not this time.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> No, but I thought about it. Sometimes I will buy a gadget just to see if it sucks as much as I thought it would. Not this time.


I gotta let you know...I'm a bit disappointed in you:thumbdown


...on the bright side - you do have a birthday coming up :whistling


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## Star (Sep 28, 2006)

When I attended L.A. Trade - Tech in '72 I remember the guy from 3M telling us how to make good connections with Scotch-locs. He specifically stated NOT to twist the wires and added the the wires MUST be the same length. When I make a joint using this technique, you'd swear the wires were twisted before!

_ pete

Never twisted a pair of wires in +30 years!!! :w00t:


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

No matter how good you or I can make a tap by just twisting the wirenut, isn't what's at issue I think. I have used the wirenut, but usually when the circuit was hot...:whistling.

The reason I require it on my crews is because, like it or not, you end up with some pretty slack guys. You know the type... guys who know how to do just enough to keep a job, but ones you can't get the boss to get rid of. But at the same time if you watch them close enough they do OK? You know that type?

Well, you can't watch them close enough to see how they hold their wires when they twist a wire nut, but you can see them well enough to see them pretwisting with their kleins.

All too often I've pulled a splice apart only to find what we called a Flower Tap... As in, when you pull the wirenut off the wires BLOSSOM... This is the kind that would burn up when the current was heavy.

Just twist them.

InPhase277


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Star said:


> When I make a joint using this technique, you'd swear the wires were twisted before!


This is EXACTLY my point from several posts back. 

Pre-twisted or not, the wires should look the same in the end. 
I'd have to say 90% of the non-twisters I have seen do not do this and you end up with In-Phase's "flower tap".


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

Wheres those guys in da picture from,Chicago, Detroit ,Youngstown ,Pittsburgh,maybee Philly looks like the goverment ran them out of business or created so much laws and hardship for them [ like they do to us] so now they sell tools:surrender:


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## sniperelectech (Feb 5, 2008)

That splicer tool is neat but by the time u get the wires in right holes and holding the drill you could have been done with your kleins. A money trap for all your green helpers trying to get out of old fashion work. If ya got a vet using that thing it may be time to get rid of him.:jester:


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## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

Thomp said:


> Ow! To twist or not to twist that is the question.
> I've done both and found that if either one is done correctly it makes a good tight connection, which is what we are looking for. Do what every your local inspection and/or boss ask and do it right.


Inspectors? They have no CLUE on how to connect ANY WIRES (at least around here) 
I always twist the wires! In some service calls I had found many times splices all fall apart and spark all over when moving the wires inside the biox. Other time completely failure of a good connection and devices did not work.


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