# Barrier Free Shower Pan



## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Tech Dawg said:


> ...If by chance your area Schluter Rep answers his phone, gives 2 craps and makes a genuine appearance at your job - please take pictures and let us know right away :whistling:


You need to give the Schluter reps lots of notice. I emailed Bob Weins on the 23rd asking him to come look a new job. My client wants to use Kerdi over Green EBoard. 

Still waiting to here when and if he will come look at the project or if I'll get my reps blessing. So that's what 11 days and counting. My earlier email in regards to Grani over Ditra Drain is still unanswered. For a company that sells so much product how do they do it with such ****ty customer service?

On another note I called Noble Company today about building a sauna for a new project here in Vancouver and when the receptionist answer the phone I said "Can I speak with Eric please." Must of been on hold 10 seconds. :laughing: Waiting for Eric to pick up.

Noble Seal TS vs Kerdi

Same day call or when the rep get's around to it. Didn't care to do a Kerdi job without permission from my rep so I passed on this project. I did call Schluter Canada and Schluter USA back on the 23rd. and both techs said it's fine if I use non-modifed thin-set. 

No brainer which company has better service and better tech support.

JW


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## daennera (Apr 2, 2012)

Well I went and visited the website of John Bridge.

I found his recipe for deck mud. and i think I get the idea of how I'm supposed to make it, form it, and mold it around one of those long Noble drains. 

However, I'm probably going to Hardiboard and Kerdi the entire "box" that will contain the shower before I lay the mud pan. Unless there is some reason I shouldn't (please say so if so)

As for structural/weight issues go, what is recommended as support under this kind of pan anyway? I'll have to measure the floor trusses under there and run some numbers, but is there some kind of standard I should try to achieve?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

You could always buy ready to mix products like Mapei 4 to 1. The components are already measured and mixed, you just add water. While more expensive than buying the individual components separately, it's still only about $6 per bag. It's nice insurance to make sure you don't mess up the critical step of the mix.


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## daennera (Apr 2, 2012)

Oh thank you. That will help a lot. Can that be bought at any Home Depot/Lowe's or would I have to visit a specialty store for that?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm not sure. Who is your regular supplier?


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## daennera (Apr 2, 2012)

Home Depot *shrug*


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

You need a different supplier. Check Menards. They carry some Mapei products.


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> I emailed Bob Weins on the 23rd asking him to come look a new job.


I'll be surprised if anybody wants to talk to you.
I'm sure your on that list


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

daennera said:


> Home Depot *shrug*


If they sell laticrete products, then that's OK for you. If not check out lowes or menards as recommended.

You may want to talk to a tile shop about this and have them do the pan and you do the rest. I don't know what they'd charge for just the pan, but it should be $300-$400. then you can do the rest and be a tile diva, but I don't think you've addressed the structural issues of a curbless and/or widening your room.


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## Ethos (Feb 21, 2012)

If you're looking for ease of installation and don't mind spending a little money, both Kerdi and Wedi offer foam-based pans for this kind of system that would be better for a beginner.

You can contact any of their reps and they'll offer up advice, manuals and training videos just to sell you their product.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Ben,
But w/o any structural carpentry, there'll be ramp up won't there?


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## Ethos (Feb 21, 2012)

CO762 said:


> Ben,
> But w/o any structural carpentry, there'll be ramp up won't there?


He could use a ramp, or he would have to cut the framing down. That would be true of just about any curbless shower, as the floor has to go down from main floor level, unless there's some other method I haven't heard of. They do sell preformed ramps which are super easy and I would recommend over trying to do structural framing.

Now he could just go with a ramp, and that would be much easier. The other route is to notch the joists and sister them according to code. The last one I did, I had to cut about 1-1/4" out of the joists (luckily the shower just fell into the first third of the joist) and then sistered them up. That is a bit of a chore, and it can complicate things further if your drain was already as high as it could be where it junctions.

I agree that this is a bad first project... 

Edit: Oh crap, I thought I read that the OP was doing this in his own home. I went back and checked, and it's unclear. OP: If you are GCing this, sub it out to people who know what they're doing. This project would be way over anyone's head for their "first bathroom."


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## daennera (Apr 2, 2012)

Yes it's in my own house. 

I thought about having to notch and sister the joists, but couldn't I just build the floor higher in the area outside the bath? It may cause a bit of a lip at the door into the bathroom, but I would rather that than have to mess with cutting joists to be honest. and I don't think I would need to widen the room. It's a very 1950's standard 5' wide by 7' deep bathroom.

The drain placement won't be a problem, I'm having all the plumbing in the house replaced while we redo this bathroom. All the plumbing in the house is contained within these same walls, so I figured now would be a good time to do it.

And that's what I was originally wondering, if anyone sold a preformed base for a curb-less shower. Except now that I saw those linear drains that Noble has, I'll admit, I'm smitten. But I can't find a preformed pan anywhere that's just a straight slope.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

daennera,
I like you--mainly because of your description of some of the contractors that visited already and your remedy, so I'll continue continuing.



daennera said:


> I thought about having to notch and sister the joists,


You'll reduce the load carrying ability to the dimension of the notch, and sistering another notched one in will only gain about 60%, IIRC. Two smallies doesn't equal one biggie, using a bass fishing analogy.
And I'd bet your joists are already undersized.
You can notch it and leave them alone, but I won't tell ya how as I think that while you defintely have gumption, you're in over your head.
If you can figure out how to do that, you can figure out how to build your bathroom atrium. 



> couldn't I just build the floor higher in the area outside the bath? It may cause a bit of a lip at the door into the bathroom,


I think you just described a full floor shower curb. 



> The drain placement won't be a problem,


Then I'd suggest putting another one at the door. Linear drain. You can remain smitten, but also keep your hallway and the rest of your house dry.


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## Ethos (Feb 21, 2012)

daennera said:


> But I can't find a preformed pan anywhere that's just a straight slope.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

The arc Tuff Form pan can be recessed some without notching:

http://www.arcfirst.net/pdfs/installation_overview.pdf


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

I was going to recommend playing with FRP and glue....Come to think of it, an RV shower pan I did comes to mind.....


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## Ethos (Feb 21, 2012)

angus242 said:


> The arc Tuff Form pan can be recessed some without notching:
> 
> http://www.arcfirst.net/pdfs/installation_overview.pdf


Have you ever used one? And if so, did you like it?


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Subscribing as I have a similar project at home to do...

For me it would be DIY, but I can comment on the addition portion. I agree about the foundation and personally would recommend block walls to match existing and then you can put in the floor joists in what ever manner you desire.:thumbup:

Only about an hour away from you so if you have a problem with the foundation guy, I could give you a second opinion. 

Thanks for the links provided, some of the options look a lot like what I want.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Ethos said:


> Have you ever used one? And if so, did you like it?


I have not had the opportunity to....yet. I admit I was not convinced it was a good idea at first. After seeing the pan getting installed in person, my view has changed. There is no detectable deflection in the pan at all (which was a concern of mine). 

I am currently testing a different method of installing...for mine own piece of mind...but I'm cool with it as is.

I'm currently working on a deal that may have me installing a few of these. We'll see.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

I hope the OP reads below....



dakzaag said:


> I can comment on the addition portion. I agree about the foundation and personally would recommend block walls to match existing and then you can put in the floor joists in what ever manner you desire.:thumbup:


and he's local and a poster here, so that should carry some weight.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Angus I have an AKW Tuff Form pan here in North Vancouver and it's solid. I think I might recess a 3/4" plywood subfloor for added strength personally and insure that the perimeter and drain areas are well blocked.

I'm well impressed with the liquid waterproofing from Mapei included with the kit as well. As for working with these liquids I think it is important to get the first coat on the substrate and let this dry before installing the banding. I've found that these approach makes for a stronger seam.

JW


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

John, I have some Noble EXT that I wanted to try with NobleSeal TS. I just haven't had the time to play with it.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

angus242 said:


> John, I have some Noble EXT that I wanted to try with NobleSeal TS. I just haven't had the time to play with it.


Me too

Been meaning to stick some up in my office and get a feel for it.

JW


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