# This is a long shot, but...anyone want to partner up?



## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

Well, the location is Syracuse, Ny.


I've been self-employed for the last 5 years. My Father has a company and so do I. Nearly all my work comes from him and we work together. We need to part ways because he's too much to deal with for me.


Right now, I do mostly remodels and some commercial work. I am well versed in remodeling and have all the tools necessary for just about anything. I can draw things up on the computer and I work hard and efficient.


So, to the point, I'm looking for somebody around my age of 24 that is willing to bust ass and create and maintain a succesful company. 


Here goes that long shot...


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## SWAY79 (Nov 26, 2008)

If you have all the tools & equipment required, what are you asking the partner to bring to the table??? (aside from exp.)


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## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

Working alone is difficult and tiresome. Want someone with some experience and contacts, maybe some customers, if they have any.


I just want someone that will work hard a long side of me and have some fun while doing it.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

partnering up is not always a good way to go

i started my company 6 years ago when i was 22 and almost partnered up 3 different occasions and i am so glad it fell through. what are you looking for? someone to work with you? go hire some one! post an ad. alot of people are not working. come to terms with exactly what you are looking for in an employee (truck, tools, $15/hr, etc.) and post and tell your friends to tell their friends. or do what i did and just go on a hire and fire rampage til you find the guy who's rite for you. the guy i have now knew very little but was always on time, learned fast, was cool with making $12 til he learned more, and 2 years later is my main guy and make alot more but more importantly makes me money. i can focus on estimates and permits and runing a company while he does the job correctly! and when we work together... we blow the job out! if your problem is getting work then take a day or two and drive around to construction sites and introduce yourself and tell the GC what you can do. no shame being a sub if your not working! and again... tell your friends to tell their family and friends and so on what it is you do to start a word of mouth getting around.

the only great partnerships i have witnessed involve a carpenter partnering with a plumber or other tradesman.


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## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

world llc said:


> partnering up is not always a good way to go
> 
> i started my company 6 years ago when i was 22 and almost partnered up 3 different occasions and i am so glad it fell through. what are you looking for? someone to work with you? go hire some one! post an ad. alot of people are not working. come to terms with exactly what you are looking for in an employee (truck, tools, $15/hr, etc.) and post and tell your friends to tell their friends. or do what i did and just go on a hire and fire rampage til you find the guy who's rite for you. the guy i have now knew very little but was always on time, learned fast, was cool with making $12 til he learned more, and 2 years later is my main guy and make alot more but more importantly makes me money. i can focus on estimates and permits and runing a company while he does the job correctly! and when we work together... we blow the job out! if your problem is getting work then take a day or two and drive around to construction sites and introduce yourself and tell the GC what you can do. no shame being a sub if your not working! and again... tell your friends to tell their family and friends and so on what it is you do to start a word of mouth getting around.
> 
> the only great partnerships i have witnessed involve a carpenter partnering with a plumber or other tradesman.



I hear you and I do know this is all sound advice.


I definitely want to find more work. I guess my deal is I want to find someone as motivated as I am and as knowlegable to get work done with.


We'll see, I've definitely got to find some GCs to get some work from.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

If you feel you must find a partner, make sure it is a 60/40 split or so....by agreement, tool ownership like a prenuptial, and then I would look for someone who has been a lead for a larger company that has a lot of clients, but maybe has never had the idea to be on his own. Then you get the contacts, the experience, the age, and an agreement that will make the split easy, since it will split.


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

I think ya need to stick it out with the old man a little longer Deic. It's evident he's put some time into ya or you wouldn't be where you are.

I picked up the hammer so long ago I can't really remember. By the time I was your age I'd been in business for several years. Looking back on it all ....I think my life would have been much easier under the gun a little longer.

It's cold out here brother ......if your really headed this way ......be sure to grab a coat.


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## Jordy3738 (Dec 11, 2008)

Partnerships stink! Perhaps you and your father could discuss a specialty market in your field that just you could be in charge of. He could then refer people to use your services.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Deicide1 said:


> Well, the location is Syracuse, Ny.
> 
> 
> I've been self-employed for the last 5 years. My Father has a company and so do I. Nearly all my work comes from him and we work together. We need to part ways because he's too much to deal with for me.


I know where your coming from, I grew up in the family business with my dad two brothers and a BIL; I was 28 when the "too many chiefs and not enough indians" syndrome reared its ugly head. I went to work for a couple of years with two other builders, and learned as much from them as I had from Dad.

That said, partnerships come with a whole lot of problems, and if working with Dad is already causing you grief, going on your own with the additional baggage of a partner may not be such a terrific idea. I would recommend you either stick it out a while longer or work for someone else for a bit, clear your head and hopefully by then the economy will be such that you won't starve hanging out your own shingle.

Here's wishing you luck :thumbup:


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

world llc said:


> partnering up is not always a good way to go
> 
> i started my company 6 years ago when i was 22 and almost partnered up 3 different occasions and i am so glad it fell through. what are you looking for? someone to work with you? go hire some one! post an ad. alot of people are not working. come to terms with exactly what you are looking for in an employee (truck, tools, $15/hr, etc.) and post and tell your friends to tell their friends. or do what i did and just go on a hire and fire rampage til you find the guy who's rite for you. the guy i have now knew very little but was always on time, learned fast, was cool with making $12 til he learned more, and 2 years later is my main guy and make alot more but more importantly makes me money. i can focus on estimates and permits and runing a company while he does the job correctly! and when we work together... we blow the job out! if your problem is getting work then take a day or two and drive around to construction sites and introduce yourself and tell the GC what you can do. no shame being a sub if your not working! and again... tell your friends to tell their family and friends and so on what it is you do to start a word of mouth getting around.
> 
> the only great partnerships i have witnessed involve a carpenter partnering with a plumber or other tradesman.


Good post here. I would add one thing. Always give the employee an incentive to get work for you. I give my guys 10% and they are constantly finding work for us.


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## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

I hear you guys. My Dad is just far too much to deal with. His attitude has forced me to walk off jobs at times to cool off and that's not my style at all. I like to work and I like to have a decent time while doing it and his attitude doesn't work well with either.


I wouldn't mind sticking it out if I didn't have to deal with him, but that's impossible.


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## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

Jordy3738 said:


> Partnerships stink! Perhaps you and your father could discuss a specialty market in your field that just you could be in charge of. He could then refer people to use your services.


Not a bad idea. I may talk to him about giving me jobs he doesn't have time for with his crew and just running the job without him completely.


Even when we do jobs together we bill clients separately, as not to interfere with eachother's taxes etc...


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

Glasshousebltr said:


> I think ya need to stick it out with the old man a little longer Deic. It's evident he's put some time into ya or you wouldn't be where you are.
> 
> I picked up the hammer so long ago I can't really remember. By the time I was your age I'd been in business for several years. Looking back on it all ....I think my life would have been much easier under the gun a little longer.
> 
> It's cold out here brother ......if your really headed this way ......be sure to grab a coat.


Very well said & great advice.. What you know at your age, especially in these times we are in, may be just enough to get you in serious trouble. It is great to be young, hard working, have all your own tools, but the best tool is missing or about to be thrown away, Experience. 
Consider this before seeking out yet another young hard worker :thumbsup:
There is far more to a good business than what young bulls can offer. 
Then again, you may need to go out on your own for a spell, because Experience is the best teacher, soon you will realize what you gave up.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Burby said:


> Then again, you may need to go out on your own for a spell, because Experience is the best teacher, soon you will realize what you gave up.


More good advice. Whatever you do DO NOT burn bridges with your Dad. I walked out mad, and have regretted it every day since. Especially now that he is no longer around.


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## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

davitk said:


> More good advice. Whatever you do DO NOT burn bridges with your Dad. I walked out mad, and have regretted it every day since. Especially now that he is no longer around.


I want to leave just so this doesn't happen. I don't want to burn bridges at all, but I also can't work with the guy.


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

Deicide1 said:


> I want to leave just so this doesn't happen. I don't want to burn bridges at all, but I also can't work with the guy.


Have you tried to "listen" to him? Understand the differences, find ways to meet half way and creat even a better company. Keep in mind HE allowed you into his company, Father or not, he as a business owner, allowed you into his company. 
Not that you don;t have good ideas, you may have, but still, sit and talk and "hear" what he has to say. 
For him to have a business for you to join today, there is something he has, yes?? 
The first 2 years my son came to work with me, I fired him more times than any other in all my career, hahahaha.. Once on site, it is business first, we go home, we are back to father & son.
I finally sent him to work with others so he could see the difference in how business was run. The company he ended up choosing to work for for a period of time was one ran by a young owner. lol, the fun he would tell me they had each day while working & after. Til the day he came to borrow money because the owner could not make payroll and shortly after closed down. 
Work is not all about fun, there is a time for fun while working, don;t get me wrong. But until you know the difference and can see thru to next year while working today, fun stays on the back burner so to speak.
Another thing good to consider, we, (any older business owner) were once your age as well and what we speak of is because we have been there and made the same mistakes you will. 
Just when I was your age I was in business and made several mistakes as well, to me it was because they did not understand, hahaha nice to be young and everything be the fault of others. 
But we grow, age, and learn. Each generation is different and youth has so much to offer if offered along with experience. You have a great chance at learning more than others who do not have the chance to learn & work along side thir father, (butting heads or not) 
With that first hand experience you can be so much more ahead of others in time, use it to learn from then apply it. 
The exerience alone you will learn, not from building, from learning to work with your father, will be valuable when you go out and seek out clients for your own business one day. 
Potential clients with money to hire others, you can bet they will hire older seasoned Contractors befor they hire young Contractors. Why? Well these clients have earned their money and with their experience over the years from hiring others, they know the one who charges the least is typically has intentions of ripping others off or just do not know the full extent of the work lookig to have done. they have been there before wishig they had paid a few more dollars and hired a more experienced Contractor. And after all, without clients where would we be in business? 
so just give some serious thought before taking off.. You think you can;t work with him? You ever give thought how he feels bout you??? but with you being his son, he tolerates it and keeps on trying. 
Sometimes it is best to sit right where you are & ponder things, instead of running to the woods to ponder things.. :clap::clap:


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## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

I guess, I need to be more specific. My Father is not a normal person and there is no compromise. He is the way he is and no one can work with him. He has a good business, but he has made it so no one can work with him.


You raise good points and I have pondered every single one of them and I've brought them up to my Father too. This isn't some new idea I've come up with, it's something I've been thinking about for the last year or two.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Deicide1 said:


> I guess, I need to be more specific. My Father is not a normal person and there is no compromise. He is the way he is and no one can work with him. He has a good business, but he has made it so no one can work with him.



Sounds like a plumber I know, he and my dad were terrific friends, he had a son my age who _attempted_ an apprenticeship.....


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## Deicide1 (Nov 12, 2008)

davitk said:


> Sounds like a plumber I know, he and my dad were terrific friends, he had a son my age who _attempted_ an apprenticeship.....




Not entirely sure what you're hinting at.



I really have tried to make our business relationship work. I've put a lot of effort into it and like the long-winded guy above hinted at, no, I'm not blaming others.


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

Deicide1 said:


> I guess, I need to be more specific. My Father is not a normal person and there is no compromise. He is the way he is and no one can work with him. He has a good business, but he has made it so no one can work with him.


hmmm yeah that makes a difference, but the important words I read and read each post is Father, good business, these are 2 important tools, father = security & experience, good business = money <!!~~ now there is a very good & important item for an business. 

Keep in mind, you are a younger version of "your Father" so what you say reflects on who you are. 
And you seem to be struggling with this, that isn;t a bad thing and shows you still have great respect for your father. There is hope. :thumbsup: Keep in mind, who your father is, is already a part of you, right now you just have youth shadowing that part, but make no mistake he is a part of you, you will never shed.

Because of who I am as a person, especially in busienss, I guess I can relate to your thoughts in some ways. 
My father & his brothers, who I learnt & honed my work ethics as well as who I am from, I was raised in construction & ever since first allowed to I was on each site as much as possible, from picking up nails, hauling lumber, to rolls of wire, pipe, ect. Father a builder, uncle 1 a electrician, uncle 2 a plumber / steam fitter. Me, young, cheap, & free labor while growing up. 
If they did not need me to work for money, I worked for free, I loved to learn and one thing I knew, one day it would bring me riches and it sure nuff did. 
Add to this was my Father n law who was my first and only business partner ever, did I mention last as well??? lol
He as well as my family were some of the dern fussiest people I ever have met. That dang shim shingle had to look good if inserted by one of us. All I ever heard growing up was if a job is worth doing it is worth doing right, no exceptions, if you touched it, it was your name on it, today as well as 25 years from now if torn down. That stuck so much in me when I began in business for myself. Why? Because I always saw the respect they each received from all they came in contact with. That meant something to me then as well as today. Not just by their customers, but by all they spoke with even ones who just stopped to say say hi, get some free advice and stated they wished they could afford to hire them. Yup, I would get that pat on the head or shoulder and hear them say, you have soem of the best teachers you could ever hope to have, one day you will appreciate that laddy, pay attention.. I would mumble, ya ya, pat me one more time I show ya what I learn this 2x4 can do.. hahahha
Being young I always wanted to be finished before we started, that is typical, you are not a lone here. 
Once I began my own business you can bet so many things they each said back then, I would hear again in my head and still do to this day. Difference is today I know with out question as to why. 
When I hired my son and we began butting heads, I would recall all the times working with my father & his brothers and use this to allow us better working conditions, but still, again, I was my fathers age, and son was my age whe learning. So still we butted heads, just because of age diff. And then I would think that one day he will be in my shoes & going thru the very same with his son. (I should add this is my step son, but I raised him since he was 16 months old, to me he is my son). 
My natural son was always into computors growing up and is an IT tech manager, making the same money as I, go figure huh, but regardless work with your hands or brain, as long as one works and makes money. :clap:
The easiest things in life to learn is to walk away, take the easy route, but keep in mind once this becomes who you are, it will become how you operate a business. 
I find it hard to believe, no one can work with your father if he has a good business. 
He is doing something right to be where he is in business. Try to focus on that and learn from that. The age difference and the hard headed attitude makes it difficult to combine, but try to understand the value in what your Father is allowing you. You will be a far better man than now if you use your same thoughts of breaking away, figuring a way to work together. The rewards will be something you will never again be able to match. 
Give it some serious consideration, you'll be glad you did. :thumbsup:


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