# "Real painters" don't use Tape



## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I always wipe the base behind the roller, I feel it is 10 times quicker than laying tape across the baseboards. I do this also when the base is not painting, I have never had a problem and I feel I make more money than you when you tape. :w00t:


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

Mr. Mike said:


> I always wipe the base behind the roller, I feel it is 10 times quicker than laying tape across the baseboards. I do this also when the base is not painting, I have never had a problem and I feel I make more money than you when you tape. :w00t:


I don't think it gives a good impression to the HO when they seem me crawling around on my hands and knees with a rag cleaning the base. I would be afraid that they would think I was trying to clean up a mess that could easily have been avoided.
I use tape on all my base, and other things at times. I don't feel that I am less of a painter for doing this and the price of tape really doesn't deter me because it is all figured into the quote.
I dont tape ceilings or anything, and I have worked behind alot of painters who didnt use tape and who thought a lot higher of their ability to cut a straight line then they honestly should have. I worked on a kitchen yesterday where no tape was used, I could have cut the base in better with a stir stick then what the last painter had done, he needed tape but was either too cheap or too convinced of his awesome skill to use tape. I would rather have a guy use a roll of tape then have a customer look at their base and see a wavy line on the cut and possibly some of the old paint peaking through because the cuts were so bad.


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## ElementKitchen (Apr 10, 2009)

*it depends...*

Taping or not really depends on the wall you are painting. If its a new construction drywall wall, the area where the joints butt are usually straight and you just need a steady hand. For older construction where the walls are plaster, theres much more "wave" and if you are not a seasoned painter, tape is just fine.

Im able to paint without tape but there are 2 workers on my team that swear by it, and thats fine with me! We have just recently been turned on to "Frog Tape". If you havent used it, its far superior to the blue tape - i.e. it doesnt leak and bleed. One down side, we bought a nice lot @ the Home Depot and when we ran out & were "shaking" for more, they discontinued it! I know they are not selling it there because its a bad product - because its amazing. I'm sure it something to do with more political tape issues.


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

Mr. Mike said:


> I always wipe the base behind the roller, I feel it is 10 times quicker than laying tape across the baseboards. I do this also when the base is not painting, I have never had a problem and I feel I make more money than you when you tape. :w00t:



You are right. It is quicker than taping the base off. It seems you do paint high end as I know I do. If you got paint on the base that was not going to be coated in the home of a homeowner I worked for you would be ran off the job. Imagine a homeowner walking in and seeing you in progress of rolling with paint all over the base. You can tell them your going to wipe it off, but it would still make the bad impression IMO ofcoarse with dealing who I have in the past.

Thanks


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## olyteddy (Oct 27, 2006)

I only paint vacants, so the client never sees me wiping the trim.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> You are right. It is quicker than taping the base off. It seems you do paint high end as I know I do. If you got paint on the base that was not going to be coated in the home of a homeowner I worked for you would be ran off the job. Imagine a homeowner walking in and seeing you in progress of rolling with paint all over the base. You can tell them your going to wipe it off, but it would still make the bad impression IMO ofcoarse with dealing who I have in the past.


No listen you know as I do I am the pro, these people can not come in to my working area and try and run me off a job because they see me painting over exposed baseboard. If it is stained base of course I would use tape, other wise we will just wipe it off, and if it does leave a stain I would certainly paint it. I must now tell you that I tell every customer that we have ever painted for while on the estimate that I recommend us going ahead and doing the base. If they opt out of painting the baseboard to save money then we are painting the way we paint. 

Also I work for every single person any person on CT works with, Painting over 2700 jobs you know I have worked for them all, I am in charge though when they hire me. Meaning if I tell them it will be O'k they believe me.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

Taping allows for cutting in faster and straighter, from my testing of doing both ways, for us taping is faster and more effecient, and more professional.
I have painted for many years doing both ways, and taping is more consitent in the long run. imo especially when you have others doing the work.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

No body used tape on any of these pictures, and if they did I would fire them!


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## Thundercow (Jan 17, 2008)

"a steady hand, and a razor blade"....that's what a master painter told me when I was about 18, and I've never forgotten it.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

I thought we were talking base boards, and mainly for the protection of sprinkles. Tape is for protection imo


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> No body used tape on any of these pictures, and if they did I would fire them!





Dave Mac said:


> I thought we were talking base boards, and mainly for the protection of sprinkles. Tape is for protection imo


We are, and there are no base boards in any of those pictures. I would not have used tape on any of those surfaces either..._maybe_ the decorative trays that are deep red against white trim.
Base boards get tape.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *Dave Mac*
> _I thought we were talking base boards, and mainly for the protection of sprinkles. Tape is for protection imo_
> We are, and there are no base boards in any of those pictures. I would not have used tape on any of those surfaces either..._maybe_ the decorative trays that are deep red against white trim.
> Base boards get tape.


Opps, lol sorry.

I was stuck on the OP wanting us to use tape on everything.:w00t:

If you want to use tape over base instead of wiping I think it is ok, I just for the most part always paint and wipe.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I was looking through some photo's now that you mention base and found these. Appears there are many reasons to use tape on base.:clap:

P9230037.jpg


P9240082.jpg



P9240083.jpg


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i was trying to understand why this was such an issue? use it or dont


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

tomstruble said:


> i was trying to understand why this was such an issue? use it or dont


The only issue here is do I really want my clients seeing me wipe paint off of a surface I could easily have masked? My clients are of the common sense crowd, and I don't need them asking me if I am going to do something any first year painter would automatically do.
I can tape the baseboard in an average size room in less than 10 minutes. I use *ONE* continuous piece of tape for each wall, I *HATE* when I have helpers that tear the tape every foot or so. Of course a round column requires smaller pieces to navigate the curve, but it sucks to pull up the masking bit by bit.
I have cut plenty of baseboards without tape, but it takes a bit longer to get it right what with gravity trying to pool my paint on top of the baseboard. With tape I can mindlessly fly right through the baseboard cut in without spending all day on my knees.
What happens when the wet rag hits your freshly painted wall? Or do you wait until the paint on the wall cures so you don't damage it? That means returning to the room later on to remove the spattering.

* A) *10 minutes of masking with $1.70 worth of tape, and 5 minutes to remove the tape to reveal a perfect line.
*
or *

*B)* 25 minutes to cut in the baseboard (that is a _generous _guesstimate), wait 10 hours then return and spend 15 minutes with a rag in your hand trying to remove all the microscopic spatter you can see...all while the HO wonders if you are a real professional.

1 1/2" blue tape: $5.00 a roll.
Application time: $3.50 @ 10 min.
Clients that trust you with their home and referring you to friends: _*PRICELESS

*_I don't tape door/window trim unless it is new construction.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> * A) *10 minutes of masking with $1.70 worth of tape, and 5 minutes to remove the tape to reveal a perfect line.


Can I use my BS card yet? 

I have never seen a perfect line with tape! And it takes more than 10 minutes to tape the base I'm guessing along with you still have to cut in the base,lol.



> Clients that trust you with their home and referring you to friends: _*PRICELESS*_


Got 5 referrals here since last monday.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

We even had to clean paint off that tile under the tape.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Can I use my BS card yet?


No, my post is 100% BS free.



Mr. Mike said:


> We even had to clean paint off that tile under the tape.


Yeah that happens when you slap your brush against the tape line with a fully loaded brush...rookie crew.
I will apply 75% of the paint just above the masked baseboard then tool (or "brush") the material down along that line with no more than 15% of the paint remaining in my brush as I apply to the tape line. 
Tell the guy who shoved a brush load of paint under the tape he can take a permanent lunch.
Unless that is _*you*_ in the picture...

:shifty:


*EDIT:* I can clearly see in the pictures of the column where paint is going to seep under each tape overlap, those must be the areas you cleaned up.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

Mr. Mike said:


> I have never seen a perfect line with tape!


Then you dont know how to apply it.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

Got 5 referrals here since last monday. 

Why not say 25 and make it more believable?:w00t:


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> I personally can not paint the base in the same ammount of time as it would to take me to tape it. I normally use an alkyd on the trim so it usually takes 2 coats, but I couldnt even one coat it in 10 minutes.
> I have never seen anyone cut as straight as a good tape job, I have heard people say they could, but it was always BS.
> If you tape or dont tape, as another painter I couldnt care less, just keep the customers happy and make that money.


Im with you, keep the customer happy and make that money. That is what its all about when its all said and done. Ive used tape in places and thought damn thats awesome and in other places thought hell I could of saved alot of time and just free handed that. I guess its all regional when it comes down to it. People expect what they are used to. If everyone is taping everything then they expect a taped look.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

capital city said:


> You guys act like a bunch of artsy fartsy little bitches sometimes.


I prefer _*Prima Donna*_. 
The extra attitude is entertainment for my clients sake, and they enjoy it.



capital city said:


> If everyone is taping everything then they expect a taped look.


a.k.a. "perfection"


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I prefer _*Prima Donna*_.
> The extra attitude is entertainment for my clients sake, and they enjoy it.
> 
> 
> ...


For one I dont really think a taped line is perfect as there is going to be some bleed there. I also think that my lines are pretty damn good and would think close to perfect unless you want to pull out a laser level and get down on your knees. Having said that I live in a smaller area then what it sounds like you guys are from and dont think that we have the higher end work that many people on here talk about. You mention perfection, in Frankfort, Ky perfection is showing up, doing what you say you will do, and not being drunk or raiding there med cabinet. The painting part is easy to impress as long do a pretty good job.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

capital city said:


> For one I dont really think a taped line is perfect as there is going to be some bleed there.


I don't necessarily tape baseboards for a straight line, I do it to shield the baseboard when I get down to business with the roller on the wall.
I can cut a fine vertical line all day long. 
I have minimal bleed through when I tape trim because I am sure to get a good seal between the trim and tape before setting out on my adventure.
I clean any bleeds with a rag in oops, or quickly touch up with a small brush.



capital city said:


> Having said that I live in a smaller area then what it sounds like you guys are from and dont think that we have the higher end work that many people on here talk about.


High end, low end, the quality should never change. 



capital city said:


> You mention perfection, in Frankfort, Ky perfection is showing up, doing what you say you will do, and not being drunk or raiding there med cabinet. The painting part is easy to impress as long do a pretty good job.



_*gasp!!! *_

How ever do you challenge yourselves to do better when "pretty good" is the industry standard?!?


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I don't necessarily tape baseboards for a straight line, I do it to shield the baseboard when I get down to business with the roller on the wall.
> I can cut a fine vertical line all day long.
> I have minimal bleed through when I tape trim because I am sure to get a good seal between the trim and tape before setting out on my adventure.
> I clean any bleeds with a rag in oops, or quickly touch up with a small brush.
> ...


You know as well as I do that the quality can change based on the job and the customer. When a customer says we only want this and this done then you cant go ahead and quote them the absolute best. I will not do something that I know will not work. When people say Duration cost to much why dont we use Valspar I dont go there. When an ederly lady says she cant afford the second coat of Duration I tell her that it wont look as good but I believe the 1 coat will do the job that you need. Also you dont price a 40 year old $140,000 house the same you do a new $400,000 house. If you were to price stuff around here using all of the best methods and best paint then you might have a handful of customers. Now dont go off on this capital is a hack crap because that just isnt true. I know what to do and when I tell a customer Im going to do something then I do it. I tell the customer what I feel they should do and we go from there.

When pretty good is the standard then you do better because you want people to automatically think I have no choice but to call this person because of the work that he does compared to so and so. Everyones market is different and the market will determine the price as well as the procedures.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I think Capital is right on in many ways.

I always assume the prospect wants the best and if they don't I have a different scope of work and paint ready for them with in seconds. Being a great one call closer only happens when you use 55 clubs in your close bag.:w00t:


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

meh.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> _ Last edited by WisePainter; Today at 11:49 AM. Reason: tired of debating tape vs. non tape. They sell it for a reason, a lot of it. _


lol,

I just checked my log of tape bought in 08 and it looks like I spent $1363.09 on tape last year, I bought a lot of tape but never used it on any of my trim that was getting painted.


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

Mr. Mike said:


> No body used tape on any of these pictures, and if they did I would fire them!


The point I was making was that the people I have worked for are much different than you describe for whatever reason. I always take extra precaution just because the ones I have worked for demand it. If you can paint and get it on the base more power to you. My scenario is different. 

As far as being fired. I was raised since the age of 5 with a paint brush. I only was allowed to use the 4inch straight angle because my Grandpa was a master painter who demanded it. He made it hard so things would be easier on me later in life. I could not put a number to the high end quality homes he has worked on. He was the first and only contractor used on Sawgrass where TPC takes place before he gave the biz over to my Uncle. That is the kind of painting I grew up around. All custom and such. Do not take what I have said the wrong way. As I said to many people, You have to do what seems right in your eyes...


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

*I wrapped this beauty up yesterday. 

These 2 areas were taped in roughly 20 minutes (10 minutes for removal).* 











* Dining room.*










* Front window* (I love those _narrow_ areas)










* I then proceeded to paint them both in about 2 1/2 hours...don't get snarky, as you can see the home is occupied***.
If I tried to freehand the base (which was not going to be painted), then just "wiped" away any spatter that hit the baseboard after rolling that job would have either:

1) Be really high in labor costs due to the time it would take to cut in * *above a base board, because as we all know that is a tough thing to do efficiently when on a time budget.

or

2) I would have lost money ($eriou$ly) at the price I quoted in the bid.

 Tape is cheap, my time isn't. 
My clients will appreciate the 150% savings they will receive all because I throw a bit of blue tape on the baseboards.


P.S. For all of my "fans" out there that claim I am messy and unprofessional so therefor need to use tape in order to maintain a clean and professional appearance...* 









Consistent brush overlap with minimal spatter on the tape surface, while the base trim and floor are left blemish free.


*Tape!*











***Pianos, nor any heirloom furnishings will *ever* be "shuffled about" when I am working.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

You did not paint the base boards? Good thing you used tape if not.:clap:


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> You did not paint the base boards? Good thing you used tape if not.:clap:


If the contract had included painting the baseboards, then that would have been my first priority. 

Then I would have taped them to do the walls...


*EDIT:* I think you missed the point I was making.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> Then I would have taped them to do the walls...


Wow, that is completely backwards. Base is always painted last on my jobs. 







Prime and prep after the walls are primed.
PC030030.jpg

Then paint that line away.
PC130177.jpg


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Wow, that is completely backwards.


You remind me of this guy that once worked for me, for a day. 
We were finishing the master bath remodel and the HO decided to move in before we finished. I sent him up to sand a small 2'x2' drywall patch on a wall and told him to run the shop vac in order to prevent the dust from flying everywhere.
So 15 minutes later I go to check on him, and he is standing in a huge drywall dust cloud...dust is all over the HO's vanity, makeup, mirror...etc.

I am like "WTF d00d?!? Didn't I tell you to suck the dust up *as* you were sanding?!?"

He just looks at me and tells me that vacuuming up _before_ he finishes is backwards!!!

Yup, you remind me of that guy, he was also wrong.





Mr. Mike said:


> Base is always painted last on my jobs.


How else would you cover up all of the wall spatter that nailed the base trim?
Of course tape will prevent all of that spatter...

:thumbsup:


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

WisePainter said:


> You remind me of this guy that once worked for me, for a day.
> We were finishing the master bath remodel and the HO decided to move in before we finished. I sent him up to sand a small 2'x2' drywall patch on a wall and told him to run the shop vac in order to prevent the dust from flying everywhere.
> So 15 minutes later I go to check on him, and he is standing in a huge drywall dust cloud...dust is all over the HO's vanity, makeup, mirror...etc.
> 
> ...


Wise what type of shop vac?? Im looking for one to do just what you said, I hate sheetrock dust!!!


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I went around my house and checked the trim and baseboards, crown moulding etc.

Splatter everywhere, it felt disgusting. I am so upset

On Monday morning there will be some sanding, taping and trim painting in this biotch


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> Wise what type of shop vac?? Im looking for one to do just what you said, I hate sheetrock dust!!!


The $65.00 Rigid from (ugh) Home Depot. I use a smaller than average shop vac due to the minimal noise when operating, and ease of carrying into my client's homes. I picked up a couple of blue micro dust filters for the dustier than normal applications.
Those large shop vacs are great for cleaning up after NC or major remodels, but a bit much inside of homes that are occupied.

Nothing says *GOOD MORNING!!!* like a large shop vac kicking on in a client's kitchen at 7:15 a.m.

:blink:


You could always sample that "dust free" drywall mud and give me a review? 
$15.00 is steep for the small amount you get.

*EDIT:* I don't use any special drywall sanding rig, just a flat attachment and away I go.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> I went around my house and checked the trim and baseboards, crown moulding etc.
> 
> Splatter everywhere, it felt disgusting. I am so upset
> 
> On Monday morning there will be some sanding, taping and trim painting in this biotch


Hired Mr. Mike didn't you?


:thumbup:


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

WisePainter said:


> Hired Mr. Mike didn't you?


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

For perfect lines I use tape, plastic or paper and spray. :whistling


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> Hired Mr. Mike didn't you?
> 
> 
> :thumbup:


yeah yeah 


that was pretty funny though:laughing:


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

*Our wood pre finish steps*

When all I was doing was high end new construction I was the one to introduce an Air Assisted Airless. As an example: 
We would take all the base to saw horses and set up a spray rack. 
We would make sure no ceiling overspray was on the base and dust every piece. 


Then we would prime with an alcohol base primer. we would let it dry til the next day and then sand it until slick as glass which would not take much.
Next, we would spray one coat of Murallo SemiGloss and let dry again. The next time we would touch it would be after our walls were done. Then after it was puttied and caulked it would get the final coat. We never had any problems and it was a custom production. No flaws or blemishes. We had a very good old school super and true craftsmen installing the wood. Everyone worked together.

We would do this with our crown which saved a lot of steps if it were...step crown moulding. Nothing like saving several steps when painting 7 step crown moulding with dental teeth in the back drop.

Too bad this was not the norm with other supers and tradesman. :whistling


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

4thGeneration said:


> When all I was doing was high end new construction I was the one to introduce an Air Assisted Airless. As an example:
> We would take all the base to saw horses and set up a spray rack.
> We would make sure no ceiling overspray was on the base and dust every piece.
> 
> ...


and I bet your houses were sought after too! :thumbsup:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Hired Mr. Mike didn't you?
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup:


He couldnt resist the hard sell discount.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Did George Z say that they do the base last also?:clap:


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

WisePainter said:


> The $65.00 Rigid from (ugh) Home Depot. I use a smaller than average shop vac due to the minimal noise when operating, and ease of carrying into my client's homes. I picked up a couple of blue micro dust filters for the dustier than normal applications.
> Those large shop vacs are great for cleaning up after NC or major remodels, but a bit much inside of homes that are occupied.
> 
> Nothing says *GOOD MORNING!!!* like a large shop vac kicking on in a client's kitchen at 7:15 a.m.
> ...


thanks Wise, Ill be getting one this week. I like the way you think.

I have not seen that dust free stuff, Ill check into it.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

Mr. Mike said:


> Did George Z say that they do the base last also?:clap:



Mike I do the base last, still use tape to avoid bumbs etc, and dont offer a disount lol:laughing:


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> I have not seen that dust free stuff, Ill check into it.



I just found it the other day after reading a lot about it on the net. Apparently the dust particles "clump" together and drop directly to the floor instead of launching into the air all freestyle like.
However the tub is _half_ the size of regular joint compound and a few dollars more. It could put a dent in the material budget pretty quickly if you are using it to do a large job, but the concept is pretty cool.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

It could put a dent in the material budget pretty quickly if you are using it to do a large job, but the concept is pretty cool. 

If you just use it as a final coat,the expense seems worth it to me.


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