# ready to quit



## dontgetinmyway (Apr 23, 2012)

[email protected]#e said:


> I started my framing company 5 years ago. In that time Ive worked my ass off and never had a vacation. At the end of the day I do love what I do but in the last year or so it seems Im starting to hate this job more and more. Ive got a builder that stiffed me for quite a lot of money and Im always chasing the other builders. It seems like all I have is bad luck. Everytime I feel like Im getting ahead someting else happens. Truck breaks down or somebody quits or something. Im getting really close to just getting out and going to work somewhere else. Hell I even have a job offer as a site super. But still I like the pride of owning my own buisness, doing things my way, working for myself and my employees, and all the perks that I hope will eventually come with owning my own buisness. What would you guys do?


People suck, don't they!
You will be trading one flavor of crap for another.
I have worked for people and had people work for me, and now I'm old and "crotchety"
I'll tell you this - working for yourself you have options. You can choose what to do that day, how to do it, whether you want to show up at all.
So the way the economy is now, are you likely to make more money easier working for somebody else? Seems unlikely. My 2cents


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Good Luck!


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Nothing will motivate you to make your own business work efficiently and profitably than going back to work for someone else.

take the job, get back on your feet, work on your system in your spare time, then when you have had enough of working for someone else, you will be ready to get out on your own again.

Owning your own business is in your blood, you will not be content as an employee for very long.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

Tom Struble said:


> the 80's:blink:w-o-w you are old:wheelchair:


:laughing::laughing:

A double dose of Geritol in the morn and I'm pert as a buck in heat.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

The OP is just west of Toronto in one of the most affluent areas.

Tool**** - there is NO money in subdivision work. Never was, never will be. The builders will squeeze you till you quit and then they'll just find a new guy and do it to him.

Have you ever been a new construction site super? If you think you have stress now, multiply that by 10. I'm not joking here. Builders go through site supers faster than framing crews.

You are in one of the most affluent areas of Ontario. Branch out into renovation work. Keep your best guy with you. There is tons of work out there in reno.

If you ever need help pricing a job, pm me. If you want a good site super job there are two custom home builders in your area that are usually looking for good men. If you're serious about that, pm me and I'll look them up. But you do need to know what you're doing. From excavation to finish.

Best of luck.


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## Alska101 (Dec 31, 2008)

Contract. Contract. Contract.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Alska101 said:


> Contract. Contract. Contract.


Unfortunately in this guys world, the new home builders have you sign their contract. If you don't like it, you walk.

It's a tough business new construction.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

There is no shame in working for tract home builders. But you must get paid on time, every time. We did some tract framing about 8 or 9 years ago to fill in some work voids. The people we worked for were very organized and paid us on time. We were not fast enough to ever turn a profit on tract home work. It was merely short term work to keep guys busy. Five years is enough time to know if the business world is right for you or not. After almost twenty years, I still have some days of serious doubt, but it doesn't last very long. If I was in your shoes, with a decent job offer looming, I would probably jump on it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Don't listen to the negative **** some on here are throwing at you. If you want it it, you know you want it, go get it. Decide what you want to be and go be it. If you don't want it, figure out what you do want and go get it. Don't let anything stand in your way. No one but you knows what you want and are capable of, we really can't help make that decision, bud.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Every problem is an opportunity to change things up and make it better


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## proremodelers1 (Mar 8, 2012)

skillman said:


> Come on guys this could of been his dream . Dreams are never easy and needs time to make it happen .


I agree I would try to take to someone that you trust the most and go from there.


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## Hmbldr (Dec 7, 2011)

Agree with Jaws and Knucklehead above here. You've made a go of it for 5 years and you profess to like what you do. What's missing is a way to make it work effectively for you. You've got to change what's not working and stop beating yourself up. It's tough but others have done it/do it and I bet so can you. Acknowledge your weaknesses and shore them up. Determine what doesn't work and eliminate it or fix it. There's been a few suggestions here already in this thread. Builders aren't all bad and can be a tremendous source of work if you hook up with a good one. Heck, I am one and I always took care of mine. They're all retired and I'm still busting my butt. Yeah, I''ve been we're you're and so have many others here on CT. I'm a work in progress, reinventing my self as we speak. More excited than ever!

Figure it out and go get it. CT is an awesome source.:thumbsup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

If you feel like quitting quit. If you are looking for a pep talk, dig in and go for it. The truth is there comes a point when the novelty wears off and the work begins. Setting goals is key. Set some goals and then set out to achieve them. If what you are doing isn't working, try something else.

It also doesn't hurt to get on those knees and do a little chattin' with the man upstairs. Don't ask him for what you want, but what he wants for you.

Good luck!

Rob


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## [email protected]#e (Jul 5, 2007)

You know guys I wasnt coming on here for a pep talk but I feel like Ive got one and it feels really good. I appreciate it guys, big time. The last few months have been really tough and hell maybe I needed that reminder that it isnt always good but will be someday. I guess whats discouraging is Im seeing all the guys I know around me kicking ass and I feel like Im getting my ass kicked. I think I might slow down for a little while, do some smaller jobs to bring the cash flow back. I should add that I dont do subdivisons anymore we only do customs. Also I didnt get into this just because there was a boom going on, I really truely love framing. Its a true passion of mine and doing it on my own was part of that. But I think I bit off a little more than I can chew and I think Ill slow down and make changes where required. Thanks again guys. Feeling a lot better now.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

[email protected]#e said:


> You know guys I wasnt coming on here for a pep talk but I feel like Ive got one and it feels really good. I appreciate it guys, big time. The last few months have been really tough and hell maybe I needed that reminder that it isnt always good but will be someday. I guess whats discouraging is Im seeing all the guys I know around me kicking ass and I feel like Im getting my ass kicked. I think I might slow down for a little while, do some smaller jobs to bring the cash flow back. I should add that I dont do subdivisons anymore we only do customs. Also I didnt get into this just because there was a boom going on, I really truely love framing. Its a true passion of mine and doing it on my own was part of that. But I think I bit off a little more than I can chew and I think Ill slow down and make changes where required. Thanks again guys. Feeling a lot better now.


As Eddie Vedder said in YellowLedBetter, "Sometimes you're the boxer, sometimes you're the bag!"


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

If you do every decide to hang it up..........and work for someone else.......try and get completely out of that field. That way you won't be frustrated working in your former trade and seeing "the boss" do things that you don't agree with.

I love framing too. But I hit a tidal wave and I was just barely above water to begin with..............I don't frame anymore.


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

wallmaxx said:


> If you do every decide to hang it up..........and work for someone else.......try and get completely out of that field. That way you won't be frustrated working in your former trade and seeing "the boss" do things that you don't agree with.
> 
> I love framing too. But I hit a tidal wave and I was just barely above water to begin with..............I don't frame anymore.


And that's a freakin travesty, there aren't that many "real framers" left. Hope you come back


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

wallmaxx said:


> If you do every decide to hang it up..........and work for someone else.......try and get completely out of that field. That way you won't be frustrated working in your former trade and seeing "the boss" do things that you don't agree with.
> 
> I love framing too. But I hit a tidal wave and I was just barely above water to begin with..............I don't frame anymore.


Yep, that's what I am talking about. The pricing in the framing trade is a tsunami caused by a earthquake of illegals.


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

I gave up tryin to frame for a living and started general contracting, I still frame my jobs but the last one I bid to frame for another GC I was underbid by 3 grand on a 1800 sq ft house.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

I got out of framing over a year ago too.

Too hard and too dangerous to work for peanuts


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Chew that is builder b.s. don't fall for it. I've never met people who are cheaper then builders even despite their project.


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

JBM said:


> Chew that is builder b.s. don't fall for it. I've never met people who are cheaper then builders even despite their project.


Yeah, it really comes down to finding the right folks to work for, whether they're builders, homeowners, property managers, etc.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

"Finding the right folks"

I thinks that's very true. If you charged $50 to show up you have plenty of folks to calll you. At $100 you have less. If you charge $150 to show up the crowd gets thinner. When the crowd gets thinner you need marketing. At $50.......not much marketing is needed.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

It's not money, it's the people. If someone pays a lot of $ but is a p.i.a., then the money thing will soon lose it's shine. In doing business, in my experiences, it has always been about the people. The product is just a thing.


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## 3bar (Jan 14, 2011)

its a bad time to be a framer. 
i used to be busy nonstop since 96, framing sometimes 100 units a year. then bam, the bottom falls out. there are very few jobs out there, and the pay is not even worth putting a tool belt on for.


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## rremodeling (Feb 21, 2012)

[email protected]#e said:


> I started my framing company 5 years ago. In that time Ive worked my ass off and never had a vacation. At the end of the day I do love what I do but in the last year or so it seems Im starting to hate this job more and more. Ive got a builder that stiffed me for quite a lot of money and Im always chasing the other builders. It seems like all I have is bad luck. Everytime I feel like Im getting ahead someting else happens. Truck breaks down or somebody quits or something. Im getting really close to just getting out and going to work somewhere else. Hell I even have a job offer as a site super. But still I like the pride of owning my own buisness, doing things my way, working for myself and my employees, and all the perks that I hope will eventually come with owning my own buisness. What would you guys do?



Stick with it if your good and fast. To many srubs out they cant build a set of finished stairs or do a complicated mixed pitch hip valley roof. If you cant get out of the buisiness and dont bother reading on. 

As your name grows youll get more and more calls from private homeowners and thats where the money is if your a smaller company. They have heard of you from reputation and know that the framing is crucial to there house turning out right and are willing to pay for it. Plus your at the front end of the project so you will never get stiffed. Working for home builders sucks these days as all the newer framers give them cheap prices early as they like that the builder will be loyal to them when they start raising there prices and theyll be framing 50 houses a year from the builder. LOL As soon as your prices get "out of line" from what they want you to do it for your gone. they always know they can get someone cheaper and will as soon as you realize your not making money from them and raise your prices theres always another scrub newbie who will think the same way as the last guy. If you cant pay for truck repairs or cant get over someone quitting (jesus do you really expect guys to work there asses of for the rest of there lives for you for 15 an hour and hardly ever get 40 hour weeks in) then you probably are one of those guys. But If YOU truly do good work fast stick with it and itll pay off. If your quality and efficiency sucks get out now cause in the last 20 years ive seen so many framers come and go my head spins.


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

phew!! some venting here and great posts, "dont finance the builder that what banks do" luv it, first off dont quit that what a.a. is for, cash flow always a problem for contractors, i write my contracts with progress payments based on time and never let the last payment be more than a grand that way i have cash flow and money to to pay my guys and fix the van (its a ford what can i say), its a whole lot easier to chase 1 grand than 10


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## chew (Apr 5, 2012)

JBM said:


> Chew that is builder b.s. don't fall for it. I've never met people who are cheaper then builders even despite their project.


No, I know for a fact the sub that is always less than me by 20%, because how they bid is they find out my price & cut it 20%. I have been getting them back by giving a below cost number on jobs I don't want & give the GC 1 day to accept (so I don't get stuck with it at that number). They always mess the job up & are behind schedule. Now nobody wants to use them, but they want it done for their price. If I can't get my price I don't do the job. It is cheaper to do nothing than take a cheap job.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

When the builders used to try to get me to work too cheap, I'd say "I'd rather write you a check for 5k and walk out of here because that's how much I'm going to lose if I take the job at what you are paying. I'd rather just pay you the 5k and sit on the couch at home, rather than slog around in the mud to lose the 5k."


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

I still remember a quote from one of the contractors who was teaching a business class I took at JLC Live in the late 1990's. As we were leaving, he said "Remember this: Don't work at losing money. If you want to lose money, at least enjoy it. Lay on the beach & chase women".


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

I think everyone in this business gets in a rut once in a while. Even if you are making money consistently, the grind can get to you. If you're NOT making money, it's very easy to get depressed and desperate.

Luckily, I have not been without a backlog of work for four years now, but I remember sitting at my kitchen table with another contractor I know commiserating about how there was "no work", "no good work" and that I wanted to quit. It was right then I decided to completely reinvent myself and my business and set my own course instead of just drifting in the current.

So, maybe framing is a tough business to be in. Perhaps the OP should consider taking his formula and outputting a different product that is easier to sell and entails less headaches. The guy obviously is good at what he does to stay in business that long. Maybe he's just outgrown the business.

Take a break. Regroup. Look at yourself from the outside in and make a change.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

this is a good thread :thumbup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

chase women?and then what?:blink:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> chase women?and then what?:blink:


youd think the rest would be understood :whistling


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

It sounds like you're not charging enough if you've been at it for five years without a vacation. Are you putting on your tool bags yourself? Or are you strictly doing administrative work? The reason I ask is because I wonder how you let a builder stiff you. Maybe you didn't have enough time to implement the proper use of contracts because you were spending too much time with your tools. Also, have you tried consulting some advisers? You can try Michael Stone, he can probably help you. 

I think you need to do one of two things, either make some immediate changes to your business, or get out. If you don't change anything then you are just going to keep struggling with your business.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

oh ..yea.. chicks man:clap:


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## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

Tom Struble said:


> chase women?and then what?:blink:


Lose all of your money of course.


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## [email protected]#e (Jul 5, 2007)

hey guys lots to take in here. To answer a few questions, yes I am a good framer with a good name and lots of work. Im still on the tools and the reasons I havent had a vacation in 5 years is because we've been so busy I havent had time to stop. O at least in the last 3 years. People dont believe me when I tell them that. Ive just been reall frustrated. Always chasing people for money and ya it seems like the whole industry is going downhill. We charge a good price but these builders are getting so disorganized and full of crap that were getting murdered on time and screwing around. Some due to change orders which I find are always tough to get more money out of(I know Im not the only guy who has that problem) others are just lack of organization on the builders part. Hell even if there willing to pay our prices there still hiring cheap foundation contractors or lumber suppliers or even stuff as stupid as not putting in a driveway so we constantly slogging through the mud and getting stuck and screwing around. Hell maybe Im passing blame but do you guys remember when everybody worked together and everybody made money? Is that reall gone? If it is I dont know if I want to be in this industry anymore. Even the guy who offered me the site super job was bragging the other day about how he can beat his contractors prices down left and right. I know I dont wanna be a part of that.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

[email protected]#e said:


> We charge a good price but these builders are getting so disorganized and full of crap that were getting murdered on time and screwing around. Some due to change orders which I find are always tough to get more money out of(I know Im not the only guy who has that problem) others are just lack of organization on the builders part.
> 
> Hell even if there willing to pay our prices there still hiring cheap foundation contractors or lumber suppliers or even stuff as stupid as not putting in a driveway so we constantly slogging through the mud and getting stuck and screwing around. If it is I dont know if I want to be in this industry anymore. Even the guy who offered me the site super job was bragging the other day about how he can beat his contractors prices down left and right. I know I dont wanna be a part of that.


I ran a framing "company" since 1983. My conclusion is that it really wasn't a "company" but rather a labor of love if you are working with the tools. You have to decide whether you want to continue on but if you do, you have to make sure you get all the pennies that you've contracted for. 

One of the ways that I dealt with poorly organized builders was that I put a price on their idiocy up front in the contract. It read something like this: 

1) Price: $12,455
2) If Electrical Power is not present: $55 per day, capped at $400
3) If lumber is not delivered within 100' of basement: $250
4) If trusses are not onsite on the day we commence: $350
5) If Windows are not delivered within one day after we start $300
6) If basement isn't backfilled $450
7) Etc

Basically, just list all your pet peeves and assign a number to them. 

It did help but framing still isn't really a business.


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

Tom Struble said:


> chase women?and then what?:blink:


Are you really so old you've forgotten already? :sad:


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