# Proving Rain Days



## Journeyman T (Feb 21, 2007)

I would like your opinion on the following scenario. I have never encountered it personally, but would like to be prepared for it if it ever occurs. Have any of you ever been in court or arbitration for project delays because of rain days?

Suppose your project takes longer than anticipated because of an unusual amount of unexpected rain days. Although you have addressed this issue in your contract, your customer disputes that this many rain days actually existed. It's now your word against his, and my guess is the judge is going to favor his side. After all, there was an "unusual amount of rain days." How would you go about proving these days are legitimate?


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

www.weather.com
www.wunderground.com
Weather history and rain fall are carried by both sites
(well, were anyway.... I haven't checked them in a while)


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

contact local news paper, tv radio they will have records of how much , how long etc....


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## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

kevjob said:


> contact local news paper, tv radio they will have records of how much , how long etc....


Exactly, they keep records of how much rain fell in what time period. Having dealt with rain insurance for performances in the past, the policy is written with amount and time restrictions.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

That is all good, but on every commercial project I have worked on a daily log was kept of weather conditions as well. Just because it didn't rain at the airport doesn't mean it didn't rain on your site.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Journeyman T said:


> I would like your opinion on the following scenario. I have never encountered it personally, but would like to be prepared for it if it ever occurs. Have any of you ever been in court or arbitration for project delays because of rain days?
> 
> Suppose your project takes longer than anticipated because of an unusual amount of unexpected rain days. Although you have addressed this issue in your contract, your customer disputes that this many rain days actually existed. It's now your word against his, and my guess is the judge is going to favor his side. After all, there was an "unusual amount of rain days." How would you go about proving these days are legitimate?


do you have a daily log that you keep

i.e. "July 16th - did not work cuz it rained"



and sounds like you've opened yourself up to be practically bent over. You evidently put a completion date in the contract without a clause mentioning any delays. 

and then you signed it.

im just guessing that's the case - or else you wouldn't be in court right now??


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## crb555 (Jun 14, 2007)

We require everyone that runs a job to do a daily report sheet. It is fairly comprehensive ..... section for weather including temp / rainfall, etc...possible backordered materials, delays that we cause, delays that others cause, accidents, RFI's, description of work performed that day, number of men on job broken down into function, etc...

Takes about 15 mins a day to do a good job of filling it out. If the foreman does a good job of filling this form out, we allow him to take the entire crew to lunch once a week on the company card. You can imagine that the crew is interested in the foreman making good reports. When I was in the field, I typically had about 10-15 men on the job, and I required each crew leader to do a mini-report to me on a daily basis as well. although not nearly as comprehensive, basically how many feet of pipe installed, how many fittings, how many hangers, etc. That was how I tracked production rates... but thats another story.

In court a daily log is a strong tool... if things get to that point.


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## Dustball (Jul 7, 2006)

The NWS would have daily records.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

I agree with Tscar. A daily log of what actually happened at your site. If it's a long job stick a rain gauge on the property. 

We had the exact scenario that you imply except it didn't go to court because we had detailed records. We are in a hilly area that storms move through on one side of the mountain and not the other. That summer we were hammered in the valley we worked in. The official totals were measured 30 miles away.

Logs need to be kept methodically though there can't be any gaps. The person keeping them needs to be documented to. You need to show that this is your normal way of doing business to get the judge and or lawyers to really buy into it. And it has to be readable

Thank goodness for my wife. I don't do anything the same way twice. Let alone write it down.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

You can look up any date and any exact hour for any weather station right here at this link.

http://www4.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-win/wwcgi.dll?WWNEXRAD~Images2

But keeping your own actual daily weather reports is more conclusive and if you need to further back up your documentation, take a digital photo each weather related day and keep a folder with that jobs history.

Who would ever argue with all of that proof?

Ed


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## Journeyman T (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks guys. Your suggestions definitely included some tips I hadn't thought of yet.


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

I just noted those links...
haven't been to court, but have run into a few homeowners that live in "magic houses." I define "magic houses" as those that don't get rained on, like everyone elses....


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Depending on the size of job and the site, put a security camera up on temp electrical pole.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Here I go, quoting from myself!!! Sheesh!!! What an ego.

I don't know if I made my point accurate and clear enough. When I said put it in a folder, I meant in a new Word Document Job Folder on your computer.

That weather site I posted is amazing for tracking down every weather report you would ever need. And, it come from the horses mouth. But, as stated from others, they only report what occurs from the weather sites, but if you go check out any particular hazardous weather date, you will see every report made, not only from the the weather stations, but any phone reports from citizens and from police and government agencies and from trained weather spotters.

Ed



Ed the Roofer said:


> But keeping your own actual daily weather reports is more conclusive and if you need to further back up your documentation,
> 
> *take a digital photo each weather related day and keep a folder with that jobs history.*
> 
> ...


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## fathersonfab (Apr 27, 2007)

crb555 said:


> We require everyone that runs a job to do a daily report sheet. It is fairly comprehensive ..... section for weather including temp / rainfall, etc...possible backordered materials, delays that we cause, delays that others cause, accidents, RFI's, description of work performed that day, number of men on job broken down into function, etc...
> 
> Takes about 15 mins a day to do a good job of filling it out. If the foreman does a good job of filling this form out, we allow him to take the entire crew to lunch once a week on the company card. You can imagine that the crew is interested in the foreman making good reports. When I was in the field, I typically had about 10-15 men on the job, and I required each crew leader to do a mini-report to me on a daily basis as well. although not nearly as comprehensive, basically how many feet of pipe installed, how many fittings, how many hangers, etc. That was how I tracked production rates... but thats another story.
> 
> In court a daily log is a strong tool... if things get to that point.


Where can we get report forms like this? Di you make them yourself?


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## crb555 (Jun 14, 2007)

We just made the forms ourself. E-mail me at [email protected] , and I'll shoot you a copy.


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

Journeyman T said:


> Have any of you ever been in court or arbitration for project delays because of rain days?
> 
> How would you go about proving these days are legitimate?


No, because weather delays are covered in the contract. Your log (and hopefully clients common sense) will support your case.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

One of the reasons I walked away from superintendent's pay and running new high rise work was the paperwork I had to do everyday. I had to fill out a company log, tracking employees who did and did not show up for work, who was late, work done, etc., then I had to fill out a progress log for the GC stating the progress made on each floor we were working on for that day, then file projection report for the deck crew to the ironworkers super daily to coordinate concrete pour sections, it got to the point I barely had time to walk the job and make sure the guys weren't all on the 20th floor with a spotting scope checking out women walking by on the street.


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

crb555 said:


> We just made the forms ourself. E-mail me at [email protected] , and I'll shoot you a copy.


Can you put it in the "document swap" section of the site?


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## crb555 (Jun 14, 2007)

I would be happy to scan a copy to .pdf and post it. But it will be Mon, as I am going to play on the lake this weekend.

Crb


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

If you do it in Word, then others can manipulate and customize it for their own needs.

Ed


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