# Asbestos encapsulation: license/cert needed?



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I may be bidding on a job which includes some asbestos-wrapped pipes they're going to want "encapsulated", as opposed to cleaning 'em up and disposing of the asbestos. 

I know I'd have to sub out removal, but does anyone know if Pennsylvania requires licensing/certification for just encapsulating? I believe I could handle that myself. 

I also believe I'll be told if that's a stoopid idea.


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

I dont think you have to be licensed, I did a google search and found nothing.

Why are they not wanting to remove it? Cost?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Cole said:


> Why are they not wanting to remove it? Cost?


Absolutely. That takes fans, filters, moonsuits, permits and so forth--really prohibitive under normal circumstances. Ironically, Harry Homeowner is allowed to do his own cleanup/removal with no permits or licensing (disposal is another matter), but I couldn't touch a job like that without $1-2K in training and licensing fees plus a gob of specialized equipment. Not that I really want to. 

I already knew that removal requires training/licensing, and my own internet searches confirm that. But I haven't come up with a clear result concerning encapsulation work.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

I had to do some asbestos removal at my house before I sold it. I had a wood stove flue stack chase that a prior owner installed (with a permit) back in the early 80's, and the plans included asbestos panels. Fortunately I knew the rules regarding friability and square footage and regulated quantities. I was able to do it the bag wrap method without all the hoopla. And I was able to dispose of it free at the county haz waste day. All with a township permit, including pre and post inspections by the township code official. Cost me zero dollars, other than $85 for the permit. Scratch that, I did have to buy some replacement wall board for the chase.

Check and see what the quantity it is. It might fall under a non-regulated quantity. Also, if all it needs is to be encapsulated, call in an insulation sub to get a price. That's what we do.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Aggie67 said:


> Check and see what the quantity it is. It might fall under a non-regulated quantity. Also, if all it needs is to be encapsulated, call in an insulation sub to get a price. That's what we do.


I haven't actually seen it yet, but going by the typical houses in that area it'd definitely be over the limit. The good news is that I spoke to an inspector today, and he assured me that I don't need a license for encapsulation work.

I'm still going to check with the State before bidding, though.


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## O.C.Inc. (Jan 21, 2008)

My personal policy is not to mess with any asbestos containing materials (ACM) period! By law it is the owners problem. He OWNS the ACM. I make them take care of it. I don't want any part of it. I will lay out all areas that I need removed ( drywall, acm duct work, acm pipe lagging, floor tile, linoleum, roofing, transite siding, etc...) after either sampling and sending suspect areas to a lab or if I can have them do their own lab testing. 

I have a friend that is a HazMat hygienist and he has seen construction co. owners, foreman and superintendents go to jail in extreme cases. 

Pat


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

O.C.Inc. said:


> My personal policy is not to mess with any asbestos containing materials (ACM) period!


Thanks, Pat. That's generally my feeling as well--but work's been slowing down and this is a very small part of a nice job. Among other things, we're going to be replacing 20 windows.

Contract is signed; we're just awaiting final approval from the bank. Those guys don't know which way to turn these days. :sad:


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

Just an additional note: Pipe lagging can be extremely friable, and some of the worst of the worst of asbestos.

Even simply encapsulating it WILL release fibers into the air unless you really know what you're doing.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

reveivl said:


> Just an additional note: Pipe lagging can be extremely friable, and some of the worst of the worst of asbestos.


I have to confess to being terminologically challenged. Are you referring to the means by which the pipe is hung? If so, I can see how that would be problematic.

But come on folks, this ain't rocket surgery. 

Wet it down so it doesn't float. Duh.
Wrap it with your choice of [wet] encapsulation material. Duh.
Let dry and harden. Duh.
Collect a billion bucks for your specialized high-tech licensed expertise. Double-duh.

Sorry; must be that time of the month for me.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

fri·a·ble [frahy-uh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
easily crumbled or reduced to powder; crumbly:

Lagging
Noun
insulating material wrapped around pipes, boilers, or tanks to prevent loss of heat




> I have to confess to being terminologically challenged. Are you referring to the means by which the pipe is hung? If so, I can see how that would be problematic.
> 
> But come on folks, this ain't rocket surgery.
> 
> ...


You forgot the last 'duh': Retain lawyer because you accidentally filled the customers house, furniture, clothing, children and pets with measurable amounts of a known carcinogen and they want your balls.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

Tinstaafl said:


> Thanks, Pat. That's generally my feeling as well--but work's been slowing down and this is a very small part of a nice job. Among other things, we're going to be replacing 20 windows.


Would take a lot more than 20 windows to get me to play in that stuff


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## O.C.Inc. (Jan 21, 2008)

reveivl said:


> fri·a·ble [frahy-uh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
> –adjective
> easily crumbled or reduced to powder; crumbly:
> 
> ...



It would be just like an airline crash..."put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!" 
I've learned quite a bit about ACM and abatement.... Ignorance is NO excuse in the eyes of the law. 
Patrick


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