# Block base for concrete stairs



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm working on a garage conversion that needs a small flight of steps to the raised (24") exterior entrance door. My plan has been forming and pouring. The problem is that's going to be a lot of weight in concrete to mix but not quite enough to order a truck.

The stairs will sit over a section of the garage slab. Is there any acceptable way to construct a base of concrete block or another method that would reduce the amount of concrete needed?

My other problem is that I drive a van right now that doesn't have much hauling capacity.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

dielectricunion said:


> I'm working on a garage conversion that needs a small flight of steps to the raised (24") exterior entrance door. My plan has been forming and pouring. The problem is that's going to be a lot of weight in concrete to mix but not quite enough to order a truck.
> 
> The stairs will sit over a section of the garage slab. Is there any acceptable way to construct a base of concrete block or another method that would reduce the amount of concrete needed?
> 
> My other problem is that I drive a van right now that doesn't have much hauling capacity.


Use hollow block if it have to be masonry steps, you can also make wood stairs.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I would build it with only hollow concrete block, but I'm not sure how I'd cap and finish it to not look totally trashy. It's not like poured concrete is some kind of elegant surface, but it's a hell of a lot better looking than block and mortar joints.

I thought about block with limestone or precast concrete treads. My skinny azz will definitely need a helper if I go that route.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

We put blocks inside our brick or stone steps. We also stucco them with bluestone tops from time to time.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

dielectricunion said:


> I would build it with only hollow concrete block, but I'm not sure how I'd cap and finish it to not look totally trashy. It's not like poured concrete is some kind of elegant surface, but it's a hell of a lot better looking than block and mortar joints.
> 
> I thought about block with limestone or precast concrete treads. My skinny azz will definitely need a helper if I go that route.


Put lime stone on top... simple and it looks good.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Just form them up and place masonry fill at least 4" away from all points of form work... I like going 6" myself, but 4" will work.

Usually a combo of broken concrete debris where applicable or in your case, CMU units of varying sizes until you accomplish your goal...e.g. 4", 6", 8" hollow block. I'll usually bring in some 2" block caps and concrete brick to gauge it close as possible.

No need to butter anything up, just stack and attack.

If you're feeling limber, through some chamfer on your forms and give the treads and nice bullnose finish.

You never want to pour steps solid anyway, waste of concrete the hydraulics will blow out your forms in short order anyway if you're an amateur.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I have on occasion used foam as a filler under steps. 

Not spray foam, the sheet foam. It is available in various thickness, we usually have some 2" thick on hand. I'll stack it in place, leaving 4 to 6 inches of space for concrete, and reinforce with steel.


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## Philament (Dec 9, 2014)

superseal said:


> Just form them up and place masonry fill at least 4" away from all points of form work... I like going 6" myself, but 4" will work.
> 
> Usually a combo of broken concrete debris where applicable or in your case, CMU units of varying sizes until you accomplish your goal...e.g. 4", 6", 8" hollow block. I'll usually bring in some 2" block caps and concrete brick to gauge it close as possible.
> 
> ...


That's a really nice detail. Do you have any closer ups or advice on how you make the form for the bullnose and finish it? Any thoughts on how you'd do returns on the bullnose for the sides of the treads?


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## S.U.M (Apr 17, 2013)

Our last one, this is a cold room underneath,


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## S.U.M (Apr 17, 2013)

Back fill under the stairs with broken brick or 3/4" gravel, but leave enough for the concrete, probably 4" is good, 
Plus rebar, 

I like how superseal does it on the sides too, looks nice and simple, I may be wrong. 

When weighing up the option between a truck or mixing on site think of the hours it will take you or your guys vs a half hour pour outta the truck. I always go for the truck unless it's really small amount.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

S.U.M said:


> View attachment 225497
> View attachment 225505
> View attachment 225513
> View attachment 225521
> ...


Nice, i've always liked forming stairs!


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

S.U.M said:


> Our last one, this is a cold room underneath,


Beautiful work SUM!:thumbsup: I see you using dimpled membrane, this is great stuff, I used that on the last few houses, makes a big difference when it comes to keep the foundation dry.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

How should I treat the joint between the stairs and exterior sheathing below the entrance door? I would assume cover the whole contact area with expansion material? I've never seen large panels of expansion joint, only narrow strips.

The area is completely covered and will probably never see rain/snow, but is covered in #15 felt


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dielectricunion said:


> How should I treat the joint between the stairs and exterior sheathing below the entrance door? I would assume cover the whole contact area with expansion material? I've never seen large panels of expansion joint, only narrow strips.
> 
> The area is completely covered and will probably never see rain/snow, but is covered in #15 felt


I'd just use some I/W shield and flash it in above to shingle effect. You could additionally use a sill sealer foam and tape the joints for your expansion joint if you wish. You don't really need 1/2" at that location imo.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Philament said:


> That's a really nice detail. Do you have any closer ups or advice on how you make the form for the bullnose and finish it? Any thoughts on how you'd do returns on the bullnose for the sides of the treads?


Unlike Sum's forms with a mortise if you will, we use 3/4" chamfer strip and just tack it to the forms in correspondence to which bull nose tool you're using.

In my case, it a John Stortz and son tool made in Philly...you line up the chamfer so it meets the v-groove on the tool. An additional mud mix is made up and you form the nose by hand.

There are form liners you can use as well that tack to the inside of the forms and are made of plastic. 

He's the bullnose tool and edger I use.

BTW...same thing for step returns, just add chamfer. You do need to pull all forms the same day when doing returns however, but I usually do that anyway.

A lot of times too, I'll use the traction tool as well on the treads to spruce it up a bit and add a nice safety feature.


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