# Architectural Details in Winona, Minnesota



## Jeff G

PrestigeR&D said:


> Thank Bass!:thumbsup:
> 
> I am just thankful that There are those of you guys that appreciate this as well.....it is so intricate in detail and speaks volumes of the craftsman of yesterday...:thumbup:
> 
> I drive by all these newer 1/2mil homes & up on estimates in Amherst... Clearence..and they can not even come close to replicating anything such as what Bass has put up...seriously... detail in the window trim..the eves with leaf cornice corbels... they are actually "orders" ...in the architectural sense.. Think about ... boxed open frieze with hand carved Greek goddess ,,ahhh possibley eygptian~and leaf accent....... all the tedious work and attention to detail... it is absolutely incredable... i MEAN LOOK AT IT... what a great piece of architecture...:thumbsup: what craftsman...:thumbup:
> 
> 
> You want a chalange.....dive in..just be patient with yourself..there are so few of us around...trust me.. once you do something like this... you will never leave the vortex....:thumbsup: the possibilities seem endless IMO...
> 
> Be patient.. more to come.. :thumbsup:Brian


Amen to that!! It is incredible just to be able to look at such work, much less actually partaking in the creation of.

And as you said Brian, much thanks to Bass for starting this thread! :notworthy


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## Jeff G

PrestigeR&D said:


> I have an affection for this type of architecture ... I will show you part of my loft...
> 
> and it gets worse :laughing::laughing::thumbup:
> Brian


Worse? You mean it only gets better!

That is a very cool stash you have there. How long have you been hoarding those goodies?


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## tcleve4911

are those mistakes you made while listening to the OPERA??!!!:w00t::laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D

*I am very...*

personal... Jeff... gloating.. is not in my personality.. I am very serious about my trade.. but I have yet to see anything that even resembles the era of that time.. once that happens... it's balls to the wall  Resta.~ there is one talented craftsman....check him out.. that guy... I would LOVE to work with him in combo... we could go balistic... along with the $$$$$$ :laughing::laughing:

but hey...
who else can do this,:shifty: a lost art Jeff... a lost art.. 
Brian.


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## PrestigeR&D

*tclev,,*



tcleve4911 said:


> are those mistakes you made while listening to the OPERA??!!!:w00t::laughing:


 
love your sence of humor boss...... :thumbup: it;s corrected


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## griz

... a lost art... 
Brian.[/quote]


Hey Murphy, Did you acquire this stuff or make it?
Pretty cool. Are the photos of the house the 4 mil renovation?
You get to work on it?


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## PrestigeR&D

*acquired Grizz.....*

but if you have the cash... I would be more than happy $$$$$$ the Martin house...? no that is John Hulley from Hulley woodworking ~ Goggle it. better yet... http://hulleywoodworking.com/ He is in charge of all the interior of the martin house... Tim is his employee..trim guy.... long story short. I used to go out with Johns, wifes, BF girl - HOT but ... lets not go there...:laughing:
Brian


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## Jeff G

PrestigeR&D said:


> personal... Jeff... gloating.. is not in my personality.. I am very serious about my trade.. but I have yet to see anything that even resembles the era of that time.. once that happens... it's balls to the wall  Resta.~ there is one talented craftsman....check him out.. that guy... I would LOVE to work with him in combo... we could go balistic... along with the $$$$$$ :laughing::laughing:
> 
> but hey...
> who else can do this,:shifty: a lost art Jeff... a lost art..
> Brian.


Yep, I gotta agree once again. It is certainly becoming a lost art. Hopefully, it won't completely be lost to the ravels of time.

I suspect that a lot of that has to do with our trades commanding so many with such skills in times past yet only to have them fallen by the wayside now is due to time constraints demanded through out every fabric of our current society. Everything has become so rush, rush, rush, and a lot of the craftsmanship (and time to learn it) has dwindled dramatically for most typical contractors and tradesmen over the past 50-75 years. I remember hearing stories about how a journeyman carpenter was usually judged worthy of employment by his self-crafted tool box he carried around with him. 

It seems the only times we get to exercise our high level of craftsmanship is for the more luxurious homes. Which I love working on, just doesn't happen that often for me, particularly since I moved to NC some 4 1/2 years ago. While in the market I left, Memphis TN, I worked on various upper-end projects and loved every second of it too. I once worked in 1997 as a lead carpenter on a kitchen remodel that totaled in cost in excess of a half-million smackeroos. And that was just a kitchen, albeit a rather large one. 

Just very unfortunate there aren't more opportunities like that. Perhaps there will be somewhere in the future.


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## PrestigeR&D

*glad there are those....*

that admire the art as well Jeff... I have a funny feeling this topic may get expanded some how....:shifty: time will tell....... 

Brian


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## The smart way

Great pictures.


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## Schmidt & Co

PrestigeR&D said:


> the buildings in the city are incredible in their architecture & Design. The architecture of most of the buildings being constructed today can not hold a candle to that time period..
> 
> I have a friend in the business that is working on the Frank Loyd Write Martin house downtown..4-million is the price tag for the renovation~.
> 
> 
> He was contemporary but had a style he put into his projects that was indulged in wood. The ceiling in the home is layer after layer of trim work. I had dinner with his trim guy last month and is laid off do to the lack of funds to continue. Tim told me when they were starting the refurbish project inside it was un godly how much wood was in the ceiling design... layer after layer just to replace or repair areas of the ceiling.....
> 
> I do like his choice of stained glass design.. but his style was contemporary and everything is sharp corners- not my style but very interesting....


Did an estimate just around the corner of his home and studio in Oak Park Illinois yesterday. I've always loved his style....


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## Tscarborough

Why are the inside corners and revels not toothed?


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## PrestigeR&D

*I think because.....*

This is a religious structure. (church- I believe) and the teeth that you are speaking of is actually a " Battlement " or an element identified as such...and a church does not want to represent itself as a" power" imaged /fortress battle structure and more so with peace, sanctity and security..hence stained glass and Angel gargoyles.

The "teeth" or gap openings were usually between 2-3 feet and are refereed as "Crenels" and the solid part between the crenels are called "Merlons" between 4-6 ft wide and as high as 7'. There was a purpose for this design when building these castles. Used for 'Battle" hence they were refereed to as "Battlements" in architectural terms.

This design has been carried out throughout the generations and diminished in size but still implemented into a building representing power and that being of a fortess... ie; dental block along soffits today. 

Prime example of a pure Crenel & Merlon Battlement is the Caernarfon city castle.. King Edward the 1st 13 century 


Boltd castle is one example of the theme but inverted into lower the eves of the tower roof outline..and much smaller...was built in 1900 by Milliniare ,George C. Boltd..propriotor of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in NYC... he never finished the castle because his wife died and apparently it impacted his life so much that he left the castle unfinished in 1904.... because of his anguish over her death...

B.


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## Tscarborough

No Sir, I was not addressing the design, but the actual laying of the stone.

See this:










On the inside corner, that is toothed (or maintaining bond). There should be no vertical joint on the inside corners or revels.


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## PrestigeR&D

*tscar*

I miss understood ... sorry.. but what corners are you refering to.. the tower and wall intersections? 
B.


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## ApgarNJ

missed this thread the first time around.

those angled corbels are amazing in that one pic. I wish more people would want this type of architecture, most aren't willing to pay for it now a days.


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## concretemasonry

On a multi-wythe bonded wall, the builder has the option of creating the desired external appearance while still maintaining the structural integrity. The vertical joint can be shifted every other course by sizing units or adjusting head joints. - A little more labor, but worth the effort on a monumental structure where there are really no detail drawings.


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## loneframer

PrestigeR&D said:


> This is a religious structure. (church- I believe) and the teeth that you are speaking of is actually a " Battlement " or an element identified as such...and a church does not want to represent itself as a" power" imaged /fortress battle structure and more so with peace, sanctity and security..hence stained glass and Angel gargoyles.
> 
> The "teeth" or gap openings were usually between 2-3 feet and are refereed as "Crenels" and the solid part between the crenels are called "Merlons" between 4-6 ft wide and as high as 7'. There was a purpose for this design when building these castles. Used for 'Battle" hence they were refereed to as "Battlements" in architectural terms.
> 
> This design has been carried out throughout the generations and diminished in size but still implemented into a building representing power and that being of a fortess... ie; dental block along soffits today.
> 
> Prime example of a pure Crenel & Merlon Battlement is the Caernarfon city castle.. King Edward the 1st 13 century
> 
> 
> Boltd castle is one example of the theme but inverted into lower the eves of the tower roof outline..and much smaller...was built in 1900 by Milliniare ,George C. Boltd..propriotor of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in NYC... he never finished the castle because his wife died and apparently it impacted his life so much that he left the castle unfinished in 1904.... because of his anguish over her death...
> 
> B.


 I've been to Boltd castle. Quite amazing to say the least.


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## PrestigeR&D

*I'm ///*

not a mason ... thanks for adding the information Dick..:thumbsup:

B.


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## Tscarborough

Exactly, CM, and I would expect nothing less on a structural masonry building. It looks bad, and really weakens the structure if not done. Maybe the photo is just not good enough to discern the detail, because I notice that they did tooth it where the rounded wall meets the main structure.


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