# installing lighting with no attic space



## GE Fay GC (Feb 23, 2010)

i have to install several fixtures including one recessed can light in a down stairs kitchen application with no attic access. any ideas on the best way to go about doing this?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Fishing in an existing house is an acquired skill, and one that it time-consuming and frustrating to learn.

Having knowledge about how the house was contructed to begin with, or being able to deduce a certain amount, will help immensely.

Sometimes, you simply have to accept the fact that you need to cut into a wall or ceiling to run the wire. 

I'd look into using fiberglass fish sticks (Labor Saving Devices, Greenlee, and BES all make them), as well as Greenlee's Diversi-Bit.

A word of caution: You can sometimes cause more damage using a Diversi-Bit than you can prevent.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Fishing in an existing house is an acquired skill, and one that it time-consuming and frustrating to learn.
> 
> Having knowledge about how the house was contructed to begin with, or being able to deduce a certain amount, will help immensely.
> 
> ...


Like 480 says, only worse if you haven't done much of it.


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## stp57 (Dec 12, 2007)

I appreciate the fact that sparkies & plumbers are so proficient a making holes in drywall. It keeps me busy patching them or installing access doors.:thumbup:
Steve



480sparky said:


> Fishing in an existing house is an acquired skill, and one that it time-consuming and frustrating to learn.
> 
> Having knowledge about how the house was contructed to begin with, or being able to deduce a certain amount, will help immensely.
> 
> ...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> A word of caution: You can sometimes cause more damage using a Diversi-Bit than you can prevent.


Nah. Only when it goes where you thought you didn't point it. :laughing:

Good response. I had a bit of a leg up on this when I started construction work, from past experience as an electronics tech. Nevertheless, I still had to go through the learning curve regarding how buildings are generally put together.

Seems odd that a General Contractor wouldn't have a sub or employee he could use for this...


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> I'd look into using fiberglass fish sticks (Labor Saving Devices, Greenlee, and BES all make them), as well as Greenlee's Diversi-Bit.


I have tried them all and the LSD are still my favorite, the new quick disconnect kind is more of a PITA to take apart though. They are one of my most used tools by far! My rule is if I can't fish it with the glowrods or ball chain I break down and get the tape from the truck. LSD has an excellent line of handy fishing products. 

I think I'm on my 3rd set of rods, after a couple years of hard use you will start destroying them.

I have 4 greenlee 4' and 6' Diversi bits or various sizes and if your not careful you will go through ALOT of walls. The steering bit helps a bit but its nice to have one guy guiding it by hand and the other holding the drill. They have to be kept razor sharp or else drilling becomes very difficult. There are alot of off brand flexi bits that work well too considering they are all rubbish after a few holes.

Back to your question, it is nearly impossible to answer since we cannot see the house. But I can bet fishing wires in going to be involved.:thumbsup:


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

If you have to punch holes use a 3 or 4" hole saw. Cut the holes so you catch part of a rafter. Then when you're through just screw the holes back and patch with hot mud, texture as necessary. Be careful blindly drilling any holes. You never know what you will find.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

For holes I give the HO 2 options, I cut-out a single-gang or double-gang sized rectangular hole and put a retro ring with blind plate on it. Or I bust out the hole saw and screw it back in so they can have a painter patch the hole.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

bauler said:


> If you have to punch holes use a 3 or 4" hole saw. Cut the holes so you catch part of a rafter. Then when you're through just screw the holes back and patch with hot mud, texture as necessary. Be careful blindly drilling any holes. You never know what you will find.


 
I do the same thing, but I use my 7" hole saw. No sense in making the hole too small to work with.


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## lthelec (Feb 27, 2010)

480sparky said:


> I do the same thing, but I use my 7" hole saw. No sense in making the hole too small to work with.


Thats not a hole. Thats a loft hatch.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

lthelec said:


> Thats not a hole. Thats a loft hatch.


 
Which, by sheer coincidence, costs the same to patch as a 3- or 4-inch hole.


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## AFOREMA1 (Jun 25, 2009)

I just rip right through the drywall were needed ( bigger the hole the better) get my work done and call my brother who is a dry waller and tell him I need a hand. When he gets there I tell him I made a little hole that needs to be patched and head to the door before he sees the mess.:thumbsup:

It worked the first dozen times but I think he may be catching on and start asking for money.


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## Five Arrows (Jan 30, 2010)

*Make some holes*

I patch a lot of holes. Seems like every 4 ft is about the average unless they are going through a flooring system. Using a 4 inch hole saw will give an plug you can use to fill your own holes, but even without the plug they are easy to fill in. 

It is a lot easier to go beside something than through it. If you can go across the ceiling maybe you can go under the house , up a wall and through the ceiling in the open bay. any way you cut it you'll be patching holes


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## stp57 (Dec 12, 2007)

Well, if you happen to have Popeye forearms like Sparky, then you would know why he makes 7" holes?:laughing:
Steve



Five Arrows said:


> I patch a lot of holes. Seems like every 4 ft is about the average unless they are going through a flooring system. Using a 4 inch hole saw will give an plug you can use to fill your own holes, but even without the plug they are easy to fill in.
> 
> It is a lot easier to go beside something than through it. If you can go across the ceiling maybe you can go under the house , up a wall and through the ceiling in the open bay. any way you cut it you'll be patching holes


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Its not too often that I have to make unwanted holes. Flex bits, beaded chain, masons line, fish sticks, small lengths of fish tape, etc can get a lot done. However, in your instance it sounds like you don't have a choice. Is there a closet on the other side of the walls or some other type of room not as fancy.


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