# Ask Mike the Painter about Closing Anything.



## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I will take any and all questions regarding closing appointments to jobs in this thread. 


Motive: 
Let's get it all in one thread, we were getting off topic in a few threads.




> Mike
> 
> My first thought about setting the apointment with both the husband and wife is that you must have to be doing a lot of weekend and evening estimates?? is that correct?
> 
> I also know from reading about sales it is a very smart thing to do.



My Reply: 


> No I don't do very well on evening appointments or weekend appointments, so I don't do them much.
> 
> There are some occasions where I will, but I get people to take off work to get my estimate if that makes since.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I agree.

You want your time taken seriously. So i only do appointments from 10am-4pm, Mon-Fri.

I can count the times on my hand that I have closed a sale on nights or weekends in 15 years


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Whats even worse is how many of us contractors would even set up a time in the evening and not know if it will be a two legged or a one legged appointment. Most people when looking for a house decide to buy that house on their first visit, if we do all that we can to help them in their buying endeavors then we should be able to close them on the first visit, unless you don't have all the buyers present. 

One thing I will do if I show up and only one spouse is home I will move into my just leaving a good impression for my next visit with all parties present.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

I dont do estimates on weekends, and very few in the evenings, glad you dont either.

Mike do you request to be the last estimate given?? My thought on this is that if your the last one they are getting a estimate from, they are in a better position to make a decision. Cant use the excuse Im getting three other estimates ill get back to you.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Four guys own a rental property. A banker, Lawyer, Dentist, and I'm not sure what the other guy does. They are all under thirty and this is their first investment property. The banker appears to be the one in charge. How do you work this? They want cheap.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Mr. Mike said:


> No I don't do very well on evening appointments or weekend appointments, so I don't do them much.
> 
> There are some occasions where I will, but I get people to take off work to get my estimate if that makes since.


WOW!

Thank you very much for that! :thumbup:

Glad to see somebody else on the same track.

In 5 years I've never worked a single saturday or sunday, never spent a single weekend on a sales call.

I can count on one hand how many sales calls I've gone on after 5:00pm.


:thumbsup:


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

I haven't done weekends or nights for years. I have met people _*before*_ they went to work. Now that I'll be trying a "Make your own appointment" contact form I thought I might do up to 7pm Tuesday to Thursday. After you guys posted I'm thinking your right, I never closed as well when I'm in between TV shows. Its nice to be reminded of that. Thanks


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Time of day or the actual day has never made any difference in whether I sell a job or not, I will _gladly_ work weekends and evenings at 35 so I don't have to when I am 55.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> Time of day or the actual day has never made any difference in whether I sell a job or not, I will _gladly_ work weekends and evenings at 35 so I don't have to when I am 55.


To each their own, but what were saying does make sense. Do people respect you more for having regular hours, or for jumping when they call?
I tell people I am with my family after 5pm. I really don't think I lose jobs because of that. I mean, you stay home to meet the cable guy, don't you?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I usually think the opposite with residential clients. Business hours are where I manage my business and work on commercial estimates. I view residential work as residual business and schedule appointments for evenings or Saturdays for my convienence. I also prefer to meet with the decision maker and find that these times work the best. My closing rates for residential work are much higher on Saturdays and in the neighborhoods I target. I also find that in the spirit of "keeping up with the Joneses" I will also be giving prices to their neighbors as well. 

It is interesting to see what other successful painters do to close. Good thread.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

silvertree said:


> I mean, you stay home to meet the cable guy, don't you?


Good point.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I will bid anytime, I dont care when or where. The more I bid on jobs the more I am actually starting to like that part of the business, its the thrill of the hunt.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

Welcome Rocket.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

silvertree said:


> To each their own, but what were saying does make sense. Do people respect you more for having regular hours, or for jumping when they call?
> I tell people I am with my family after 5pm. I really don't think I lose jobs because of that. I mean, you stay home to meet the cable guy, don't you?


 
I dont think it has anything to do with respect. My company perfoms a service and meeting my customers at their convienence is part of the service. You only have one chance to make a first impression. Getting the phone to ring is the first and in many cases the hardest thing to do. Once they call you the closing begins. 

I'm not sure about Mr. Mike's rates but my closing rates are not as high as his. I am usually the high bid on all residential estimates and if my closing rates were too high I would have to serioulsy look into my pricing.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

> Im young motivated and want the work and money


I can relate to that. You may look at things differently in 20 years.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

silvertree said:


> you stay home to meet the cable guy, don't you?


 
Because you have to or you have no cable.

The cable guy isnt competing for your business with every jamoke that can hold a brush. 

Not a good point.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

silvertree said:


> I can relate to that. You may look at things differently in 20 years.


Thats right. If I am the one hustling closings in 20 years then there is a problem. I would expect my estimators to close 7 days a week. Period.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Because you have to or you have no cable.
> 
> *The cable guy isnt competing for your business with every jamoke that can hold a brush. *
> 
> Not a good point.


It is Because we do not compete with every Jamoke that holds a brush, so they can meet me Mon-Fri 10am-4pm


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Not a good point.


I disagree. I think that it is an interesting thought on the amount of respect that we are given in this field of work. We are expected to jump through hoops, sell our businesses and come in at a cash figure that the HO has already come up with in his head.

I am of the 6 days a week kind of guy myself.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> It is Because we do not compete with every Jamoke that holds a brush, so they can meet me Mon-Fri 10am-4pm


 
Ok RBS ...do you hire painting subs or do you pay one of your carpenters to slap a little paint on a bathroom?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Ok RBS ...do you hire painting subs or do you pay one of your carpenters to slap a little paint on a bathroom?



I have two in house painters anything over 2000sf or extremely intricate is subbed out to my painting subs.

My guys can paint with the best of them but they make too much money for them to spend more than a few days painting.

Their speed would not make it worthwhile


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

MDRocket said:


> Im guessing your doing track homes or working in the hood in DC? I dont do the projects.:shifty:


NO I do mostly mid to high end work. DC doesn't have tract homes. 100 year plus remodels and historic homes.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> I have two in house painters anything over 2000sf or extremely intricate is subbed out to my painting subs.
> 
> My guys can paint with the best of them but they make too much money for them to spend more than a few days painting


 
Ok then ...They are carpenters that know a little about painting. 

I read here that you have trouble finding decent painting contractors. Be honest .....do you hire the low bid? the guy you will be most profitable from? In my experience a contractor as established as yourself that usually has a hard time keeping subs is usually pricing the good subs right off the job.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I mostly just caulk and paint the seam where the 2 pieces of the DoubleWide hook together, that and the ocasional barn is all we got here in Indiana


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Ok then ...They are carpenters that know a little about painting.
> 
> I read here that you have trouble finding decent painting contractors. Be honest .....do you hire the low bid? the guy you will be most profitable from? In my experience a contractor as established as yourself that usually has a hard time keeping subs is usually pricing the good subs right off the job.


No they are drywall/painters/tile. Thats all they do. average paint job is about 12-15k 200-3000 sf foot remodel nothing to fancy. 

I take their bids and put a mark up on it. So the bid is whatever you give to me I don't care what the number is. Vary rarely have I been given a number i did not account for or was blown away by in any division. I do remodeling so I don't have to nickle and time like a new construction GC


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

MDRocket said:


> You sure? I think Ive seen you in south east doing a row house one time.


Might be we don't refuse work anywhere.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

MDRocket said:


> Just curious what do you bill out for your high end painters............
> 
> I do work in Potomac from time to time and my fair share in DC also just curious what "good painters" are making these days.


I don't know since I don't run a paint only operation. My two drywall/painter/tile guys range from 22-25 per hour with bene's


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

How did you get the squirrel to hold the Bazooka?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

MDRocket said:


> Ive never met a dywaller who could paint...:no:...and I never met a painter who could tile....:no:...so how did you get so lucky....:whistling


You teach good guys and have then focus on specific tasks. 

You have them work and learn from the best, don't let them pick up bad habits to early on and pay them well and reward good traits. 

They don't have to be the best, just really good at it:thumbsup:


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> How did you get the squirrel to hold the Bazooka?


Gorrilla Glue


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> How did you get the squirrel to hold the Bazooka?


 He found mexican squirrels


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

MDRocket said:


> So you have a painter working for you? because only a good painting can teach good habits IMO. I have a fealing your paint jobs could probley use a repaint. *Maybe I should give you a stack of cards to hand out?*


Sounds like a plan. Where can i get them from?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> He found mexican squirrels


They are Guatemalan Squirrels bastid :laughing:


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

MDRocket said:


> I'll be in DC next month. I can stop by any job you are curently working at. Will the weekend work or after 4 pm


For you I will make an exception:thumbsup: just choose which is best


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, the pros are out tonight!


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

silvertree said:


> Well, the pros are out tonight!



Now I am.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

silvertree said:


> Well, the pros are out tonight!


 Don't you mean in?


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Don't you mean in?


Thats what I meant


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Don't you mean in?


Hold up your making fun of the squirrel with that crazy ass frog in your sig?:blink: Man did we **** Mike's thread up


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

silvertree said:


> Thats what I meant


 Thought so. 

Mr. Mike is going to be bent to see what happened to his thread. Turn your back for one minute around here....


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

silvertree said:


> Well, the pros are out tonight!


And the rest of us are doing our wild Saturday night partying here.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

rbsremodeling said:


> Hold up your making fun of the squirrel with that crazy ass from in your sig?:blink: Man did we **** Mike's thread up


 Squirrels and frogs are two different playing fields. People go out of their way to kiss and lick frogs, they swerve for squirrels

I was actually thinking of a drywall bazooka when I made that comment. I did not associate it with the avitar.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

my mom said I am cool


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

MDRocket said:


> they still slaughter women and eat children in central PA?


I think there's something backward in that question...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

MDRocket said:


> Guess your not pennsylvania dutch........


Obviously the beard confused you.


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## cl0ckwork (Mar 21, 2009)

Dave Mac said:


> I dont do estimates on weekends, and very few in the evenings, glad you dont either.


Nonsense. Saturday and Sunday are no different than any other day. I work a good majority of weekends and put in bids if I have them ready.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> Mike do you request to be the last estimate given?? My thought on this is that if your the last one they are getting a estimate from, they are in a better position to make a decision. Cant use the excuse Im getting three other estimates ill get back to you.


I never ask if they are getting bids, I just assume I am the only painter they thought about calling and with that train of thought I am able to deliver a closure to someones need to find a painter.

On repeat customers when they call I will request to be the last painter that bids their job but only if they mention to me they are having other painters bid the job, I should add that I do try and overcome their need to see other painters first.

In most cases No what I do though is let them use the excuse of that while on the job and say very simply, why do you think you need more estimates? And then over come any objection I can to have them sign today.



I may say now Mr. And Mrs. Prospect we all know you really would like for my company to do this project and I can promise you this, No one wants to work for you folks, then I pause and say more than I do and nobody will work harder than I will to earn your business and keep you as a future customer than we will, Now Mr. and Mrs. Prospect we can go ahead and get your project on our schedule today.





> Four guys own a rental property. A banker, Lawyer, Dentist, and I'm not sure what the other guy does. They are all under thirty and this is their first investment property. The banker appears to be the one in charge. How do you work this? They want cheap.


When those guys call they almost always say they are looking for cheap also and what I do with therm is say, look I am not going to be the cheapest company and I think you know that and possibly that is the reason you called me isn't it? Now with that said I think also you called me because you want an outstanding job, not just some hack painter in a truck. We'll then I'm your guy.

Lets set up a time we can all get together and meet. Oh they all want you to get the estimates I see, let me ask you this would you be able to sign up with my company while I am there or will everyone need to be present for that? Oh we'll great what would be a good time to meet with all of you? 
Ok sir we'll I will meet with you only and what day looks good for you?
End:

Now what I will do is make a decision while I am there if I want to wait out on the price and do a second visit with all parties and then do my one call close on my second visit or just shoot ducks in a pond and give him the bid to take to the buddies to vito the price.


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## cutnut (Oct 25, 2008)

Mike

Could you discuss overcoming multiple rejections and how we should know when to use the porchlight close?


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Multiple objections, 
Well I get about 4 No's before ever getting a yes from a customer so I always get at least 4 No's along with 4 objections.

What I do is end every overcoming with a I can earn your business today cant I? Or does this mean I can sign you up?...

The porch light close, funny you mention that since it is my favorite close.

You should go into the porch light after you have one of the couple wanting to sign and the other on doesn't want to or even when they both want to and need to talk about it. Now there is many variables but the main thing is not going out of the house until you have directed them in to what they need to discuss while your out side. That calls for a quick recap ending with now while I am out side in my car you all are going to figure out what option will suit you best, option one witch is most desirable to you but not sure if you can afford it or option 2 that we know you can afford but what a hard decision it is to make...


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## cutnut (Oct 25, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Multiple objections,
> Well I get about 4 No's before ever getting a yes from a customer so I always get at least 4 No's along with 4 objections.
> 
> What I do is end every overcoming with a I can earn your business today cant I? Or does this mean I can sign you up?...
> ...


WHat does it take to become a "one call closer"?


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

I want to see these authors of the amazing "how to books" sell a job in front of me using their patented technology, otherwise they are nothing more than bunko self help gurus taking your money $14.95 at a time...


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

WisePainter said:


> Time of day or the actual day has never made any difference in whether I sell a job or not, I will _gladly_ work weekends and evenings at 35 so I don't have to when I am 55.


WTF are you talking about??????:blink:

*You're the guy that said he doesn't even meet with a customer unless you're the only one looking at the project.*

So you'll qualifiy the customer, get them to swear you're the only person they are calling... have that much control, I mean, hey, you're uber control man... and then bend over like a ***** after that?

Working weekends and evenings at 35 won't get your out of working at 55. 

In fact it pretty much GUARANTEES you're going to be working at 55 and beyond, and your body will be so broken down you'll be like Mickey Rourke in the Wrestler movie.

*The way you avoid working at 55 is to work smarter not harder at 35. *

You work harder, not smarter at 22. 

By 35 you better have had that figured out by now, that you didn't know any better at 22.

But now, you come back with you whitty remark to dig yourself out of this one. :whistling


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> WTF are you talking about??????:blink:
> 
> *You're the guy that said he doesn't even meet with a customer unless you're the only one looking at the project.*
> 
> ...


sigh...

let's get this unpleasant bit of business over with.
I paint entire houses, factories, grain hoppers 150 feet in the air, and other very large structures...You move toilets around in powder rooms for a living, most of which you sub out to other contractors. 




I win.

:clap:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Okay. You win.

I just found it strange how somebody who is so powerful a force that only does no bid projects, who has such a strong pimp hand as yourself would suddenly bend over like that.

Normally logic would dictate that the discrepancies and inconsistency's are just symptoms of a bull sh*tter being caught up in his own bullsh*t, but logically since you such an evolved higher being that sprays Behr paint on stuff, the only real answer can be that you're on such a high level, so far out of reach that it's like you (a white man explorer in africa) showing me an (African aboriginal tribe) a flashlight and me being so un-evolved and unsophisticated when compared to you that I can't comprehend it and asume it is some sort of magical object.

My apologies. :laughing:


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

No need to apologize, you just got yourself caught up in a proper internet butt whooping.
It could happen to anyone.

Friends?


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

I have this old trunk, the hinges are kind of rusty, maybe tweaked, anyhow I can't get it *closed*, what do you recommend? I also have a door that isn't *closing* properly, li'l help.




.


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## monkey (Jan 25, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> sigh...
> 
> let's get this unpleasant bit of business over with.
> I paint entire houses, factories, grain hoppers 150 feet in the air, and other very large structures...You move toilets around in powder rooms for a living, most of which you sub out to other contractors.
> ...


 you do all that with a $4 brush?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Yes, very lazy. I discovered that when I wasn't lazy I limited my income. You see there were only 24 hours in a day and I could work maybe 18 of them. That limited my income. Then I discovered the lazier I got the less hours of the day I had to actually be doing physical work. Then I discovered if I then devoted time to just supervising I could be fresh enough to sell work at a high enough price to cover paying others really well to do great work for our customers. 

Then it was like this lazy drug addiction. The lazier I got the more money I made, the more of life I had outside of work, the happier the customers were, the happier the employees got...

Who would think that being lazy would be the answer for me?

Everybodies got to pick their own levels. For me it's being as lazy as possible and still make a great living, have free time and happy customers and employees and oh I forgot - create a business that is actually a business that can be sold to somebody else.

For others it's not that path, it's just creating a job for yourself instead of working for somebody else.

Nothing wrong with either one. If you're happy working on the actual product or service as an installer then who am I to say it's wrong? Probably I'd be just as wrong as you to think somebody owning a business where you're not working as an installer of your product is wrong.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

MDRocket said:


> A yes or no would have worked......sorry but I have yet to see a "remodeler" paint job up to par with a painters quality of the same project. I think what your selling and what painters sell are totaly diffrent. Your selling a toilet and slaping some paint on the walls......Bottom line is its alot easier to sell a toilet than a high quality paint job IMO.
> 
> And how fresh do you have to be to sell a quality job? I can sell my quality of a job no matter how "fresh" I am.
> 
> Not sure if its the same everywhere.......but in my area and alot of others I have talked to.... Remodeling is more of a way to get a cheap project done without hiring "real" contractors to do there indivdual trade there are professinaly doing.


I'm in total agreement. 

Painting is like a Ferrari or having sex with a super model. (just look at the guys in the painting field, the pros in that field blow away the ones in all others)

Remodeling is like having sex with the fat girl.

You definitly chose the right field for a challenge.

Like I said, I'm lazy. I like to just cash the big checks and find a fat girl. 

I'm exploring a way to do all remodeling by just painting it, maybe like a hollywood back drop I can put over the doorway and say we are done-- be like a painted picture of a marble bathroom from the Taj Mahal. 

Think that would work?


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> I'm in total agreement.
> 
> Painting is like a Ferrari or having sex with a super model. (just look at the guys in the painting field, the pros in that field blow away the ones in all others)quote]
> 
> Well i dont like to brag , but ..............


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Is Ferrari the new Italian word for '73 econoline van? :cheesygri


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> WHat does it take to become a "one call closer"?


Just desire.

All you have to do pretty much to be on your way to closing is, have the answers to these 3 questions.

1. Why should the buy these products?

2. Why should you buy them from me?

3. Why should you buy today?


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

I had a salesman come to my house once. He was going to sell me an insurance policy or else.

After his hour or so long spiel to my wife and I...I told him "thanks but no thanks"

He sat back on my couch and said he might just have to wait around until I changed my mind.

I told him I didn't think so, and that if he didn't leave right now, I was gonna throw him out on his ass.

So he got up and left (without me signing anything).

What do you think he did wrong, Mr Mike?


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Did he come door to door?

Did he call you telemarketing style and set up an appointment to meet with you?

Did you call their company and have him come out and see you?


No matter what his main problem may of been just sitting back on the couch and stating he is leaving after you change your mind, what he maybe should of done is, simply sit back in your couch and say, well folks before I get out of here lets recap everything we went over and then at the end ask for the order again. If he was there an hour he may of been 30 minutes longer on closing you.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes, Mike..he called and set up an appointment. Said he could save me some money. I was young and hadn't quite figured such things out yet.
But I was pretty stubborn even back then...I don't think another 30 minutes would have done him any good.


But it reminds me... just a couple weeks ago...

Guy comes to my door and says: "Hi. First off, I'm not selling anything. I'm just in the neighborhood talking to homeowners about their windows. Do you own this home?.

(I just closed the door on that guy.)


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

I liked it better when Mike the Painter was talking about applying paint and showing me really nice pictures of houses he has painted...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

You will never, ever walk out of my door with a signed contract on the first call. I have an absolutely inflexible rule against same-day purchase of any service or product (not counting something like flea market shopping). If it's a good deal today, it will still be a good deal tomorrow or next week. And in the meantime I will have a chance to calm down and analyze just what all your fast talk amounted to.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Ok,
Let me say I'm not sure of the exact statistics but I am pretty sure in a cold calling business like the one that called you and set up an appointment is much different than our leeds.

People call me after thinking about painting there house, I ask things like how long have you been thinking about getting this done...

I close around 80% of my leeds and the guy that met with you may of sold none before you met or at most he is a 15% closer. The person that called you may be at 80% on setting appointments.


The door to door guy is also different than when we go on a appointment with someone that calls us. ANd when people say you are like a door to door salesman I tell them you called me because you wanted a great job right? Let's go ahead and set you up at this price here.




> You will never, ever walk out of my door with a signed contract on the first call. I have an absolutely inflexible rule against same-day purchase of any service or product (not counting something like flea market shopping). If it's a good deal today, it will still be a good deal tomorrow or next week. And in the meantime I will have a chance to calm down and analyze just what all your fast talk amounted to.


You will forget 80% of what we talked about 24 hours after I leave, your wanting the best price you can get for this project aren't you? We'll I wish you could get the same price today and tomorrow but sir when I get up every morning and put on my salesman cap I say how could I make today a better day than tomorrow for these great folks to buy my great painting services from me? Let me ask you this, How soon can I expect to hear back from you on hiring me for this job? Oh really so soon huh, we'll If you could save a considerable sum I am thinking you would like to get it over with today and make this needing to get the house painted a thing of the past right?



> If it's a good deal today, it will still be a good deal tomorrow or next week. And in the meantime I will have a chance to calm down and analyze just what all your fast talk amounted to


The prices of my labor and materials went up 4 times last year, I can not tell you that the products and services I quote you today are good for ever but what I promise you is by signing up with me it locks in your price so this is the most you are going to pay at this time.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Thank you, Mr. Mike


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Tinstaafl said:


> You will never, ever walk out of my door with a signed contract on the first call. I have an absolutely inflexible rule against same-day purchase of any service or product (not counting something like flea market shopping). If it's a good deal today, it will still be a good deal tomorrow or next week. And in the meantime I will have a chance to calm down and analyze just what all your fast talk amounted to.


I call BS.

I bet Mr. Mike could come to your house, sell you a paint job, and spec you as the applier!


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

One call closing happens less often with remodeling, but painting, plumbing and remodeling can all be sold any way you like. All work well with consultive sales, but one call closing is not a contest unless you think it is. If a person sells a $120,000 kitchen on 4 visits and a painter sells 4- $30,000 jobs on 4 visits all things add up to $120,000. If you made your profit either way whats the diff?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> I bet Mr. Mike could come to your house, sell you a paint job, and spec you as the applier!


If you only knew just how absolutely much I detest painting... :no:


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

80% closing rate seems high, I am at about 30%.

25 Leads @ 30% closing = 7~8 signed contracts.
25 Leads @ 80% closing = 19~20 signed contracts.

I should be renamed "LazyPainter"....


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> If you only knew just how absolutely much I detest painting... :no:


the fact that this has been posted in the Painter's forum means the Universe will now collapse in upon itself.

:laughing:


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> 80% closing rate seems high, I am at about 30%.
> 
> 25 Leads @ 30% closing = 7~8 signed contracts.
> 25 Leads @ 80% closing = 19~20 signed contracts.


80% is very, very high. I think I said if anyone else on here claims that I will attach myself to their hip for a week so that I can even be better.

30% is most common because most people get three bids, and most contractors don't ask for the order even once.




> One call closing happens less often with remodeling, but painting, plumbing and remodeling can all be sold any way you like. All work well with consultative sales, but one call closing is not a contest unless you think it is. If a person sells a $120,000 kitchen on 4 visits and a painter sells 4- $30,000 jobs on 4 visits all things add up to $120,000. If you made your profit either way whats the diff?


One call closing is way more profitable than a 4 visit close, gas and time lets not forget to mention a one call closer will usually be the only price a customer had, I have closed a couple handfuls of jobs by telling the customer to cancel their other appointments and lets sign you up today.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

> cancel their other appointments and lets sign you up today.


That's a good way to do it. And remodel sales should be done in 3 visits if their is a design. 4 happens when the selections cause issues.
But in reality you've pretty much closed the first visit, the other visits are to build the job. You may close a remodel on visit 1, but you would usually end up with changes, 2 visits can work well. 3 gets the bugs out. 
On small remodels and under (excluding baths and kitchens) you should ask for the signature on the first visit. On refacing cabinets, always.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> And remodel sales should be done in 3 visits if their is a design


You must get a commitment on all of these days though, and some signature and deposit for design and build. Don't you work on that during the first visit?


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Yes, I come out to your home and get your wants and needs. I will then talk budget and you tell me your budget,or if you don't know, I ballpark the job. 

If your OK then I explain the importance and value of a design agreement, value to both parties. Then I ask for a fee to begin design and that's on the first date. Most people are already sold by then. If you say no, I will ask why your not interested in going further. I don't say anything like "Don't you like me", I keep it business like, sometimes I'll get an answer I don't like such as, I think we like this other guy better. :sad: 
If I don't get the design, I figure the other sales guy was better, or had reached the people better than I did. I then go away thinking I have to work smarter, so its always improve, improve, improve.
I forgot, after the design is agreed on and I have the fee, the job still isn't mine until the contract to build paperwork is done, agreed to and signed. Then I get my first payment.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I ask on average no less than 16 times for the job on jobs I don't get.:thumbsup:

At least one of the times I ask will tell me why I lost the job.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Steve Richards said:


> I had a salesman come to my house once. He was going to sell me an insurance policy or else.
> 
> After his hour or so long spiel to my wife and I...I told him "thanks but no thanks"
> 
> ...


Aggresive caveman sales tactics don't work well with people with money, people with good credit, people with choices, people with education... etc....


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> I happen to believe that no close is required if the sale is "opened" correctly. It's all about rapport, defining the customer's criteria, and creating the right expectations about the relationship.


Right on, at the peak of that rapport the close should just be automatic right?


On that edit a few posts ago, I wanted my reply right after the wolf post I told you I was editing before I ever edited it so you would know to wait a second.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Mr. No Balls .....go back to every post and edit it one you see a negative reply to it.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Neps don't make me internet round house you. lol


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

If they are still unsure after you brow beat them and give 25% off what then? Give them a free toaster if they sign?


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## Mike(VA) (Jan 9, 2008)

Quote:
Whether or not you choose to do bids on evenings or weekends is your perogative as a business owner. I dont mind doing it if it means that all parties involved in the decision/paying process are present.

You said:
5. Retarded, why would you need to meet with them all your not going to close at this time. Remember respect?


Mike, this shows your lack of understanding of closings that require multiple visits. I am not about to meet with wifey a couple of times, get things all settled out and ready for a close, then hubby gets in on the act and we start all over. Or worse, he puts the kabosh on the whole thing thinking it is too expensive and doesn't have a clue what has been discussed. If I am working to close a deal that is $150K, $500K, or more and needs lots of decision making from the clients, I want them both there every visit.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Neps don't make me internet round house you. lol


 
Excuse me Donkey? Your the a-hole that started this thread proclaiming to be the all star closer. You havent even come remotely close to answering any questions about your actual company. 

What is your average sale? (think real hard and go back to old post and make sure your numbers match up)

Are your employees 1099's or W-2's?

These two questions will reveal alot about your at home business.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> I appreciate your opinions they are very helpful for me to overcome a future customer, I am editing this post as we speak to over come that whole post with you and add closure to your negative way of thinking.
> 
> 
> 1. don't think that was directed at me
> ...


I dont have a negative way of thinking. Being negative equals failure over the course of time.

My numbers and revenue speak for themselves. 

I dont take orders; believe it or not I sell. I am in no way the cheapest painter in my area, quite the opposite. The quality of my work, my attitude, my referrals, justify my price. Once again, what is your closing ratio for referrals?

I'd be curious to know the manpower size of your company. I dont care about the number of jobs you do. What is the average sale? What is your average net? 

200+ jobs in one year? 365 days/yr minus weekends/ holidays...how many guys are you running?

Mike, some people see the glass half full of water, some see half empty of water. I see a half of glass of water. It is what it is.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> If they are still unsure after you brow beat them and give 25% off what then? Give them a free toaster if they sign?


I am glad you ask,

What I will probably do is tell them they we have something in common.

They need painting done and I need to paint something, what could we do to get together on this today?

Nothing!

lol, I can't do this for nothing, but short of nothing what can we do?...



:w00t:


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## cutnut (Oct 25, 2008)

My cousin is a carpenter in Louisville, I mentioned our resident big shot to him on the phone today and he pretty much told me the local reputation of that company. As always, on the internet, things are not as they seem. Mike, you are obviously trying to convince yourself that you are something your not. Who cares if these guys believe you when even you know its not true. Like NEPS said, you probably have a decent homebased paint business, thats good enough bro. Its good to have dreams though. SOmeday you will die and go to painter heaven where they all close on the first call, meanwhile this is the world you are in.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> Excuse me Donkey? Your the a-hole that started this thread proclaiming to be the all star closer. You havent even come remotely close to answering any questions about your auctual company.
> 
> What is your average sale? (think real hard and go back to old post and make sure your numbers match up)
> 
> ...


Hang on everyone let me get a kick out here:

I said a few posts ago I don't use subs for painting, I think that means W-2, average sale is roughly $4000.00 we do jobs for $1,000.00 but we do jobs for $200,000.00.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> My cousin is a carpenter in Louisville, I mentioned our resident big shot to him on the phone today and he pretty much told me the local reputation of that company


I would question you if you said you mentioned Mr. Mike's and they said they didn't know us, however we don't paint new houses so how does he know us, maybe it's because we are the Louisville Painter.


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## cutnut (Oct 25, 2008)

Yes, you are known. As what, I will be kind enough not to reveal on here.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Is that blood? man you guys are vicious. I thought sharks were deadly never mess the painters :w00t:


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## cutnut (Oct 25, 2008)

I'll just say that he was called in by a homeowner on a job of yours that sounded like it didnt end well. You know, one of those where you morphed into carpentry to get the paint sale. He described some unconventional carpentry practices to say the least. He made good money fixing your stuff from the sounds of it. He said the word hack.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

That is very kind of you not to say very bad things you hear about me,

But with all the bad aside, I do an awesome job at closing deals and this thread was not about me as much as it is about helping me get some objection role play going, I don't think I ever start bragging in here on ct about me, one question leeds to an answer and an answer leeds to a phone call and a phone call leeds to this post.

While we are at it give me just a street name and I can go into that, but I can't think of one job in 6 years that went bad like your stating.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Hang on everyone let me get a kick out here:
> 
> I said a few posts ago I don't use subs for painting, I think that means W-2, average sale is roughly $4000.00 we do jobs for $1,000.00 but we do jobs for $200,000.00.


You better be doing more volume than that for 19 full time employees on the books. Right ....you said 19 and up to 40 ...right? 250 jobs @ $4000 per is $1,000,000. Get your number straight kid. You probably don't even know your numbers to begin with.

Time for you to go upstairs ....it's 6pm ...Diner time.


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## cutnut (Oct 25, 2008)

I hear the pitter patter of backpeddling little feet. Its ok Mike, we all knew it was smoke and mirrors. You seem like a good fellow though.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Hey CutNut,
You should thank me anyways, you never posted before I got you going!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> I do about 40 jobs every year over $20,000.00 each and all are sold on one call closes


 
awsome....you must of done 210 jobs at $952.38 to reach last years sales


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## cutnut (Oct 25, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Hey CutNut,
> You should thank me anyways, you never posted before I got you going!


 
Just never saw anything so ridiculous on here. As stated above, 19-40 employees with those sales? Everyone making $5.50 an hour or are you a non profit with government grant funding? You gotta figure some stuff out before you go sell anymore. You may be circling the drain and not even know it.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I am really 21, I still live in my Momma's basement, I own a broken hammer and I have about 50 bucks in my wallet.

I still play with my wee wee sometimes

There I feel better already.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks Mike,
And thanks to everyone for participating, I am no sales guru and have no million dollars in the bank. Always learning and getting pumped up though, I swear after this thread was at 75 deep I could not wait to go on my next leed I am thinking they don't have a chance.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

Wow , go away for a day and look what I missed. Out of all of it here is the quote that stuck with me.

"You know, and this is just a suggestion; if you could team up with Jack Pauhl, you guys could set the world on fire.":blink::laughing:


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

rbsremodeling said:


> I am really 21, I still live in my Momma's basement, I own a broken hammer and I have about 50 bucks in my wallet.
> 
> I still play with my wee wee sometimes
> 
> There I feel better already.


Why only sometimes???
I rub the skin off mine.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

oooooookay then....mod please lock thread.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> oooooookay then....mod please lock thread.


 Don't tap out.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

The thread is not off track, because when I am done I close my zipper 80% of the time. I am an 80% closer just like MrMike


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> The thread is not off track, because when I am done I close my zipper 80% of the time. I am an 80% closer just like MrMike



Rimshot


great I am going to hell for sure now that I laughed...


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

You painters are starting to scare me.
I'm never telling a painter joke again, except maybe the one about the painter, the goat and the hockey mom from New Jersey.:notworthy


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## Mike(VA) (Jan 9, 2008)

except maybe the one about the painter, the goat and the hockey mom from New Jersey

:lol::lol::laughing::laughing::laughing: I've heard that one, it's great. Of course you couldn't repeat it up here, you have to go down in the basement. :w00t:


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

Mike what I find a little strange is how you became a expert so fast. I have kept up with you for some time and enjoy your post. So I know roughly when you started posting about the first day closing. Is the learning curve extremly easy for this system? Because you seemed to have huge success with it right from the start.

Ps
I commend you on how you handled all the chest beater (ego's) in here, not many would of held their cool like you did. really shows good traits on your part, and as for the chest beaters well, I guess their egos feel a little better and Bigger.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

D Mac,
Great question:

Let me kind of replay how I figured it out. 

1. One day I was thinking about hiring a salesperson to sale for me, because I figured all they had to do was drop off bids like I did for the first 9 years, I never asked for an order on the first visit and did not expect them to either.

2. The first salesman I hired, who does participate on this thread he asked me so how does this work? I said we'll I drop the bid off and they will call in a week or two and tell me I have the job, he laughed. Being that he was a sales manager at a major window company and they did one call closes he found it funny that I don't one call close.

3. They did call back just like I said and he could not believe it. But never the less he put together a pitch book on his own and closed a couple on the first visit, before quitting here to go work somewhere else.

4. I hired a couple other sales people and hoped that they were one call closers, 1 guy worked here for a year but seemed to be giving away jobs.

5. When I let my last salesman go, I called my first salesman and asked him where I could go and learn how to sale? Told him it looks like I have to be the salesman now.

6. He told me about one person and I googled them and found they were doing a one day show a few hours from here in Chicago, that was on a Friday and believe it or not on Monday I closed my first professional one call close, It went so great that I closed 9 of my first 11 appointment's with this.

7. Here we are about 8 to 10 months later and I do think I am a killer at closing a painting estimate and wish everyone did this. 

8. Seems the most important part of the whole show is the actual setting up the appointment.



Edit to add:

There is more than one thing I got from the Harry but my favorite is this quote he put up somewhere.

"Every man owes a part of his time and money to the business or industry in which he is engaged. No man has a moral right to withhold his support from an organization that is striving to improve conditions within his sphere:"
Theodore Roosevelt


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

I am going to need some hard copy evidence of your method's proven success before I buy your pamphlet.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Now if you had prefaced this entire thread with your last post, thing may have gone a little differently. Mike, while your and I sales/closing techniques may differ quite a bit, I do enjoy your enthusiam for the business. I think its the way you come off in your posts that may rub people the wrong way. I would bet if you tempered your sales expertise with a little humility, you could probably pick up some of the jobs you didnt close.

I'm a laid back guy Mike. I dont care if I spend 15 min or 2 hours with a potential client. I listen and build a rapport with them. Rapport equals trust where I live. Honesty equals trust. I want them to be comfortable with me. Last kitchen job I did, they had 2 small children, and it was the older (6yrs) birthday. I stopped and bought her a card and a few books and also for her little brother. My cost was under $20, what I get in return who knows, but the kids and the parents were touched by the gesture. They were a referral, who do you think they'll refer to their friends?

Take care, work smart, and I wish you success....and a modicum of humility.

Wolf


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> Mike what I find a little strange is how you became a expert so fast. I have kept up with you for some time and enjoy your post. So I know roughly when you started posting about the first day closing. Is the learning curve extremly easy for this system? Because you seemed to have huge success with it right from the start.
> 
> Ps
> I commend you on how you handled all the chest beater (ego's) in here, not many would of held their cool like you did. really shows good traits on your part, and as for the chest beaters well, I guess their egos feel a little better and Bigger.


 
He did a great job defending his lies.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> D Mac,
> Great question:
> 
> Let me kind of replay how I figured it out.
> ...


 
You need a salesman for 4 guys? You might be in more trouble than your pretend numbers implied.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

lol, just when I thought the thread died.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> lol, just when I thought the thread died.


shhhh the artist is working...



:laughing:


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> shhhh the artist is working...
> 
> 
> 
> :laughing:


 :laughing::thumbup:


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Dave Mac said:


> I commend you on how you handled all the chest beater (ego's) in here, not many would of held their cool like you did. really shows good traits on your part, and as for the chest beaters well, I guess their egos feel a little better and Bigger.


I think (by far) the biggest ego in here belongs to the OP.

cool thread though :thumbsup:


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