# HORRIBLE HELPERS: The Future Generation of Construction



## finakat (Jun 7, 2011)

I am a 23 year old tradesman, who works for a Residential General Contractor, making the transition from employee to independent; I've had my own "off the books" side job business for three years

I attended a local state university for 4 years, studying to become an English teacher, i was nowhere near finished when I dropped out to be in construction like the rest of the family. I have never been doing better and happier, and my boss is a licensed plumber and licensed electrician, who also has five building inspector licenses..I am now using his license to take advantage and im a registered apprentice taking courses to get my electrical license...

My question is, am I the only person my age who gives a damn about the industry? 

I have worked for many contractors and everyone one of them tells me the same story, that every helper besides me was either a drug-addled, five-finger discount thief, a slouch, a big-mouth who told them that they wanted to do it their way, a liar who said they could do work that they couldnt, an alcoholic, or otherwise obnoxious

All three of the GCs I've worked for tells me they have to fire 80% of all the helpers they find (especially from Craigslist) due to them calling out of work every other day, nodding out in the corner from taking tons of oxy-contin and percosets, stealing their tools, talking to customers, asking questions about how much the boss makes, stealing mongo & other scrap, stealing alcohol from the customers homes, "no call - no show", spitting gobs out in the sinks of the customers bathroom, talking on the cell-phone all day, taking a thirty minute crap while google-ing everything on their blackberry, and so on and so on.

I take every day seriously and thank god for it; I knew what it was like to be starving with no gas money from the lack of business right after the wall-street bailout, just having a steady job in construction is a huge excitement to me. It really pisses me off when I hear these stories and I hear them constantly..

Is this the new generation of people and kids my age in the business? Certainly they are going to tank the business if it is...does this mean that I will have an advantage being motivated and academically inclined? Am I the only apprentice or helper that actually does this because HE WANTS TO, not because I was a delinquent that never got into college...

Now, not to offend anyone, but howcome all the laborers my age that I know are all covered in trashy, meaningless tattoos? (I am not against tattoos; I have many "biker" tattoos of the grim reaper, hot rods, skulls, e.t.c.) But, like, really? Does every construction kid I know have meaningless cliched bull**** tattooed on his neck and forearms, so he basically can never get a job anywhere else? Now, I used to smoke, but I quit, but does every laborer my age have to smoke an entire pack a day, leave the job every 5 minutes to do so, and have nothing but coffee and cigarettes, for breakfast lunch and dinner? Whats with every other kid having a DUI or a criminal record?, Like, is there one clean-cut straight-shooter in this business left, that is my age? Is this really the future of the business...the only guys I know that have their stuff straight are 30 and above, 

I dont't mean to write an essay or ask ten thousand questions, but I feel sorry for any contractors who have to hire kids like this and it disappoints me that I'm the only helper who went to college and left to do this because he loves it that much...I really want to hear the responses from you veteran guys out there, thanks.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Are you lumping all drug users in one category?


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## Beanfacekilla (May 19, 2011)

That was a very good rant. I liked alot of the things you said. 

I think most people around your age just haven't fully matured yet. You seem to really have a good head on your shoulders. 

I think with your motivation and work ethics, you will be miles ahead of your peers in 5 years. You are on the right track. 

Peace.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Don't leave your boss untill you get your elec. and plumbing license. If you leave early to jump in you're just as dumb as the apprentices you speak of.


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## finakat (Jun 7, 2011)

Warner Remodeling: Guess you're right dude, I don't mean to lump them all into one category bro, I've done my fair share of drugs, I'm just saying, I've worked in many different types of businesses and I see an awful lot of guys in this business coming to work on drugs or alcohol and bringing all their problems with it...

Maybe just an explanation why is all I'm looking for, lol...


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

jhark123 said:


> Don't leave your boss untill you get your elec. and plumbing license. If you leave early to jump in you're just as dumb as the apprentices you speak of.


Not


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

The beginning of thel problem is that people think 23 is a kid...

Its the ME gen we belong to I guess. Everyone thinks their special, because the school system told them that. No one wants to work or earn anything, they want everything their parents have now

Not everyone in our age group but a lot. JAW


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Not


ORLY? 

Both of those licenses have an experience requirement, meaning that you cannot get them unless you work under a journeyman for a certain number of hours.

Both of those licenses allow you to make quite a good living running a one man show.

Stay untill you get the license especially if you are happy working for him.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

finakat said:


> Warner Remodeling: Guess you're right dude, I don't mean to lump them all into one category bro, I've done my fair share of drugs, I'm just saying, I've worked in many different types of businesses and I see an awful lot of guys in this business coming to work on drugs or alcohol and bringing all their problems with it...
> 
> Maybe just an explanation why is all I'm looking for, lol...


It's because they are full of themselves, and think they can do whatever they want because they are "contractors". For some reason, these people think that nobody can ever be as good as they fancy themselves to be. I've seen a ton of them come and go - whether they were on something or not.

I told one of my subs to never EVER show up at one of my jobs unless he's hit the bowlio - because he's intolerable otherwise. The customer can't tell, he doesn't come in reeking or anything - but I can tell. He's actually incredibly good at what he does, and really safe too.

I've fired people for smoking cigarettes though - they couldn't keep their butts out of the customers yard. Legal drug, but customer said something to me more than once - GONE!

For me, it's about safety, appearance, and performance. Don't show up reeking, and don't show up acting stupid - and don't be a lazy ferk, or make me look bad! That's about all I require outside of having WC ins 

That being said - it's hard to find someone that meets those qualifications, even if they DON'T drink or do drugs. People are just plain stupid.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

jhark123 said:


> ORLY?
> 
> Both of those licenses have an experience requirement, meaning that you cannot get them unless you work under a journeyman for a certain number of hours.
> 
> ...


Yea but just as dumb as the apprentices you speak of:blink:a drug-addled, five-finger discount thief, a slouch, a big-mouth who told them that they wanted to do it their way, a liar who said they could do work that they couldnt, an alcoholic, or otherwise obnoxious:blink:nodding out in the corner from taking tons of oxy-contin and percosets, stealing their tools,:blink:stealing alcohol from the customers homes, "no call - no show", spitting gobs out in the sinks of the customers bathroom, talking on the cell-phone all day, taking a thirty minute crap while google-ing everything on their blackberry,:blink:all covered in trashy, meaningless tattoos?I just don't think this young men is that dumb no matter what:no:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

finakat said:


> My question is, am I the only person my age who gives a damn about the industry?


Nope, there is one more...Nick - AKA:Framingpro:thumbup:


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Yea but just as dumb as the apprentices you speak of:blink:a drug-addled, five-finger discount thief, a slouch, a big-mouth who told them that they wanted to do it their way, a liar who said they could do work that they couldnt, an alcoholic, or otherwise obnoxious:blink:nodding out in the corner from taking tons of oxy-contin and percosets, stealing their tools,:blink:stealing alcohol from the customers homes, "no call - no show", spitting gobs out in the sinks of the customers bathroom, talking on the cell-phone all day, taking a thirty minute crap while google-ing everything on their blackberry,:blink:all covered in trashy, meaningless tattoos?I just don't think this young men is that dumb no matter what:no:


It was a figure of speach, geez


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

I got a young man helping with the coconut grove house that is great:thumbsup: jumping to help all day long, always moving and job is spotless:thumbsup: He's Mexican and a very hard worker


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Are you lumping all drug users in one category?


Frik'n druggies.:jester:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Leo G said:


> Frik'n druggies.:jester:


What those druggies smokin the sh!tter:blink:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

> He's Mexican and a very hard worker


Si, es porque los americanos no quieren trabajar y no pueden trabajar porque son demasiado gordo y huevon, y creen que el mundo les debe todo.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

A.T.C. said:


> Si, es porque los americanos no quieren trabajar y no pueden trabajar porque son demasiado gordo y huevon, y creen que el mundo les debe todo.


No he speaks way better English then that:thumbsup:


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Leo G said:


> Nope, there is one more...Nick - AKA:Framingpro:thumbup:


S'cuse me?!


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

yah nicks a good guy, dont know about that chris "brutus" kid though:whistling


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## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

If, it is because the Americans do not want to work and they cannot work because they are too fat and huevon, and think that the world must everything to them. 

Babelfish.com, free language translator.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

rjconstructs said:


> If, it is because the Americans do not want to work and they cannot work because they are too fat and huevon, and think that the world must everything to them.
> 
> Babelfish.com, free language translator.


Say WHAT?!?!?!


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

We have a generation that was raised by parents who wanted to be their kids' best friend rather than be a parent and let them fall down and skin their knees a few times.
Result they look to have everything handed to them.
My wife was telling me how many people in her office give their kids an allowance and don't require them to work for it!


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I got into my own business late in life so for me i am playing catch up but i know where you are coming from with this newer generation. Not only has this new generation been told they are special but they have also been coddled far to long. How many "kids" are out there at 21-24 yrs of age that have little to no work experience? I am all about getting an education but when mom and dad hold your damn hand and pay all your bills then you have no work experience when you do get out of college. These kids do not even work summers or even weekends anymore . I for the most part work alone but when i do hire someone for a couple days or even a couple weeks i dont bother with these "kids". I look for a fellow contractor who may be slow and willing to work for me or i have an older fella who will work for me at the drop of a hat. This guy is now 62, has had 3 back surgeries and two heart attacks and will work circles around any "kid". How sad is it when you hire a guy who is 22yrs old, has a 4yr degree, a new car, shows up late for work and then after 30 minutes of work you realize this kid cant even mow your grass because he has never done it??? He can brag about the drinking and college life, the girls, all the new cars he has trashed/owned and his degree but he cannot even operate a push mower properly. Wait until this generation gets into politics!!! You think we are screwed now!!


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

I did the college thing too, drank like a fish and enjoyed all of the tail that I was willing to chase, but unlike many of my peers I was lucky that my old man whupped my a$$ as a kid and made me do real work all the time. Many of my friends can't even change a flat on their car (sad). I'm 31 next month, which I won't say is all that old, but the general work ethic that I see from the 18~24 group is garbage. A bunch of whiny p***ies with soft hands afraid to put any kind of effort into anything. I can't tell you guys how many times I get pi$$ed on the job and have to fire these lazy babies. Yeah, I have absolutely no doubt lots of other guys here go through the same stuff I'm talking about.

reference: "The pussification of America"

woodchuck gives a great example too. We've all seen on the forums various college educated youngsters come on here asking inane questions out of complete laziness. Frankly, if you've made it through college, you should be able to figure some s**t out on your own! I feel like 480 probably does sometimes when some mentally challenged 12yo asks what the black and white wires are.

When all of the old timers retire, some have suggested it will be great business for guys in my age group. I wonder how true that actually is. I'm not sure how true it can be, because with the complete talent vacuum out there, who will we be able to hire to help get the job done? Yeah we can go south of the border, but not every aspect of construction is hanging drywall. When I read a post like the OP's, I smile and nod my head in agreement, but it's bittersweet because of what's coming when all the old timers are gone.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

I think too many young people grew up having their activities planned 24/7. They did not have to to dream and tinker around out in the garage. How many of them actually had to fix their own bicycles of made a go cart out of scrap fpound lying around. Too much time was spent on planned activities like fagball (soccer).


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

This thread really involves a much larger discussion since it hits on so many levels and on so many topics from education, to parenting, to the economy. 

I am going to try and narrow down my thoughts without sounding like a fruitcake writing a manifesto. I can only speak about my little corner of the world here in Northern CA, but I do think it covers most of the US. 

1. Educators, starting in the sixties, felt that working with your hands and the trades were too "low class" for kids to learn. Therefore, they steadily eliminated vocational training in schools, and, made all testing and teaching revolve around EVERYONE going to college. Also a big emphasis on liberal arts, psych, sociology and poly sci. 

2. The minimum wage. Again, starting with politicians seeking endorsements from certain ethnic and labor groups, wrote into law higher and high minimum wages and benefits. For small business, this meant, you couldn't hire teenagers for the summer or part time due to increasing costs. You had to hire someone full time at the lowest legal wage and the most minimum of benefits ( which were now required)

3. Again, politicians at work, open borders for everyone. Not just Mexico and all of South America, but China, Vietnam (remember we brought all the vietnamese over that had no skills). All of this for political gain - Democrats for voting blocks, Republicans for cheap labor. So those entry level low wage jobs that teens would get right out of high school on a temp or short term basis as they gained job and business skills went to full time permanent low wage workers. 

My contention is that with each generation from the late Fifties on, getting a job in the trades was looked DOWN upon by each generation that went through the education system, that was further helped by politicians and the laws they wrote.

There was no more --- start at a low wage or temp job and work your way up. There was no more ---- learning to do stuff with your hands + learning trade skills --- because that is what folks do that have no future or intelligence. Contractors and trades people found a smaller and smaller pool of willing and able employees. 

Each crop of psychologists, social workers, educators and political types stressed to parents and kids ---- that feeling good about yourself and protecting your "self esteem"--- was way more important than actually learning anything ( unless it was psychology, sociology, poly science or some activist cause ). 

So now after 50+ years of this "social engineering" you have a new generation of young people (teens to twenty somethings) that have few if any skills in anything (trades, business, finance, ability to plan and set goals) ----- but they sure do feel good about themselves, and, have a false sense of accomplishment and confidence. 

So that is a little taste of my take on things. I could probably write a book on it. But if you drop out of high school because you don't fit the mold, or, if you got socially promoted out of it and didn't make into college ----- where else are you going to go. 

PS. I wanted to add that over the last 50+ years, most of the institutions that taught young people the value of commitment, honesty, hard work, sacrifice and doing things that the good of all, rather than just yourself ----- have all be decimated because they weren't politically correct ---- as defined by the same groups (educators, politicians, progressive activists) that have managed to ruin the education system and the economy.


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## JRSeifert (Apr 22, 2010)

There's a few of us out there. Today is my 28th birthday.

I started in this business when I was 21, working for my Dad's company in the summers while I finished college. Seeing that there wasn't much out there for a history major that I wanted to pursue, I immediately went into partnership with my Dad, and we've been running our own company since then (spring of 2006), doing just about anything we can in the residential construction realm. I went from knowing nothing about construction to being a pretty decent G.C., all by getting out there and swinging that hammer, wanting to learn all that I could, desperate not to let anyone down, and then putting in long hours in the office in the evenings and early mornings.

I've never smoked, left my binge drinking back in my college years, don't have any tattoos, and generally lead a clean lifestyle. I just got married this spring, and am more focused than ever on doing it the right way.

I'm concerned about our generation too, though. I feel like I'm in the minority most of the time. We're a growing company, and I'd love to be able to hire a young guy with my ethics and drive, but it just seems like they're hard to come by. Laziness, self centeredness, and disrespect toward others (lack of humility) are rife in our generation. The best and the brightest all want to be middle management.

I got a lot of that, "You're special, and you can do anything you want," kind of teaching when I was young, but on top of that I got a big, "BUT.... YOU GOTTA EARN IT."

I dunno. I think part of the difference was in growing up on a farm. From the time I was about 6 or 7 I had chores to do. When I got a little older it was baling hay, shoveling out the calf pens, fixing fences, using all kinds of equipment, etc. All of a sudden you have all these peers who don't know what it is to work, and you're trying to tell them that it's not all that bad, in fact it makes you feel pretty good to get something accomplished, and they just look at you like you're nuts. Except for the other farm kids. They got it. Along with the idea of working as a team - depending on others and knowing they depend on you.

Bah. I could go on, but I need to go get something done.

-Jr.


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## JRSeifert (Apr 22, 2010)

cwatbay said:


> Each crop of psychologists, social workers, educators and political types stressed to parents and kids ---- that feeling good about yourself and protecting your "self esteem"--- was way more important than actually learning anything ( unless it was psychology, sociology, poly science or some activist cause ).
> 
> So now after 50+ years of this "social engineering" you have a new generation of young people (teens to twenty somethings) that have few if any skills in anything (trades, business, finance, ability to plan and set goals) ----- but they sure do feel good about themselves, and, have a false sense of accomplishment and confidence.



Aha! Yes yes yes. And I think that from a practical perspective, you and I may both agree that the best way to build self esteem IS to learn something practical that sets you above your peers. 

Imagine! Now you have a skill that people value, need, and praise you for when you do a great job, AND they PAY you for it! Plus, a REAL sense of accomplishment is way better than the false kind.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

rjconstructs said:


> If, it is because the Americans do not want to work and they cannot work because they are too fat and huevon, and think that the world must everything to them.
> 
> Babelfish.com, free language translator.


And there is the problem with free online translation programs.




> Yes, it is because the Americans do not want to work and they cannot work because they are too fat and lazy, and think that the world owes them everything


.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I started in my trade during the summers of high school. I started my own business at 23. I am now 25. I have no friends that have the work ethic I have. Heck, the only time I am not working is when I am wasting my time on here.

All my employees, except one are older than me. The younger ones generally do not make it and the one who is younger, reminds me a lot of me and I am sure he will become competition some day. I have gone through 3 young guys this week already.

A lot of homeowners are surprised when they find out my age. I think this is mostly because of knowledge. Not to sound cocky, but from these forums, seminars, and mostly on the job training, I know a lot of what I am talking about and how to get problems resolved. I believe this is why I am doing so well this year when others are struggling. 

I don't think age has anything to do with it much anymore. People of all ages are either going to be the Chiefs or the Indians. I decided the first day I got on a roof that I wanted to be a Chief by the time I was 30. I started 7 years early. Others like to be Indians. Problem with the older men who enjoy being Indians is that the majority of them are just like my generation ; lazy with no aspirations to become anything more in life.

The one thing I have working in my favor is that I am the youngest legitimate roofing company owner in the area. As the "old-timers" get older, they won't be doing as much work anymore. By the time other guys my age decide to get started in owning the business, I will already be established.


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## WilsonRMDL (Sep 4, 2007)

Im 24 and i cant seem to find reliable help my age. Hard to get respect from the older guys but once they see how serious i am theyre cool workin for me. Keep up the hard work


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

olligator said:


> ... I feel like 480 probably does sometimes when some mentally challenged 12yo asks what the black and white wires are...


Uh, 480 has just about the same reaction to any electrical question.


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## Cletus (Jan 7, 2008)

It currently doesn't make any sense for the younger generation to enter the construction industry. Compare unemployment across industries here: http://www.bls.gov/iag/home.htm. Why would the typical smart, hardworking person in their 20's want anything to do with the incredibly unstable construction industry? 

Many of those with any ambition are rightfully looking elsewhere for a career. What's left are a small number of people willing to put in the effort for a future in the trades, then all those who choose the industry due to the low cost of entry, and all the dregs who bounce around to whatever work they can get.

As far as the idea of the damn kids these days being so lazy, check out the average accumulated savings of people in their 50's and 60's. Check out the ages of the decision makers. As others have noted, people are a product of their environment and each new generation does the best they can with whatever steaming pile of poo they are given. Thanks baby boomers, you ruined it for everyone else. :biggrin:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

every generation since man started walking upright has always thought the generation after it is spoiled

i was told never trust anyone over 30:whistling


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Tom Struble said:


> every generation since man started walking upright has always thought the generation after it is spoiled
> 
> i was told never trust anyone over 30:whistling





With a VERY few exceptions, I don't trust anyone in a suit and tie.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Cletus said:


> It currently doesn't make any sense for the younger generation to enter the construction industry. Compare unemployment across industries here: http://www.bls.gov/iag/home.htm. Why would the typical smart, hardworking person in their 20's want anything to do with the incredibly unstable construction industry?
> 
> Many of those with any ambition are rightfully looking elsewhere for a career. What's left are a small number of people willing to put in the effort for a future in the trades, then all those who choose the industry due to the low cost of entry, and all the dregs who bounce around to whatever work they can get.
> 
> As far as the idea of the damn kids these days being so lazy, check out the average accumulated savings of people in their 50's and 60's. Check out the ages of the decision makers. As others have noted, people are a product of their environment and each new generation does the best they can with whatever steaming pile of poo they are given. Thanks baby boomers, you ruined it for everyone else. :biggrin:



At this point in our history, a construction career makes about enough sense as a career in manufacturing.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

Happy B-Day JR:thumbsup:


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

Doubleoh7 said:


> With a VERY few exceptions, I don't trust anyone in a suit and tie.


What about trust in somebody with skirt?


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Resta said:


> What about trust in somebody with skirt?



If she is attractive, I tend to make the mistake of trusting her. DOH!


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## bigdifficultme (Feb 28, 2006)

Saturday Iam going to help my younger buddy with a frame. He started his company when he was a junior in high school. Now at the ripe old age of 26 his company has been around for 10 yrs.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

cwatbay said:


> This thread really involves a much larger discussion since it hits on so many levels and on so many topics from education, to parenting, to the economy.
> 
> I am going to try and narrow down my thoughts without sounding like a fruitcake writing a manifesto. I can only speak about my little corner of the world here in Northern CA, but I do think it covers most of the US.
> 
> ...





Thanks for the insightful post. Kids need to be taught that the world needs ditchdiggers too. There ain't no shame in that. Hard work should be rewarded.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Interesting take 007. I am a gen X guy, and think that this generation (don't know what their title is) has it pretty tough. Things in the schools have changed drasticly. It is easy to be left behind, and if you aren't very athletic, pretty, or gifted in some way, you are easily passed over. I am sure it's always been like that, but more so today than any other time.

Also, this generation has a lot of single moms and absent dads. Then, there is the potty mouth thing and drugs in front of the kids. What the heck? As a kid, we swore, and I am sure the adults did as well. But, very rarely did we swear in front of each other. Not so today. 

Want to complain about the kids today, well, look at their predecessors, it's not like we as a whole are showing such a great example.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Learn a trade or go to college thats what I was told. 
Alot is being missed from the hard work and forsight needed to see something through. Good and bad its what builds charactor and real values.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

flashheatingand said:


> Interesting take 007. I am a gen X guy, and think that this generation (don't know what their title is) has it pretty tough. Things in the schools have changed drasticly. It is easy to be left behind, and if you aren't very athletic, pretty, or gifted in some way, you are easily passed over. I am sure it's always been like that, but more so today than any other time.
> 
> Also, this generation has a lot of single moms and absent dads. Then, there is the potty mouth thing and drugs in front of the kids. What the heck? As a kid, we swore, and I am sure the adults did as well. But, very rarely did we swear in front of each other. Not so today.
> 
> Want to complain about the kids today, well, look at their predecessors, it's not like we as a whole are showing such a great example.




I think what it all boils down to is that we are a society in decline. This thread is just a discussion of the symptoms. Look at Mexico and you will see America's future.


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## DuFast (Dec 15, 2010)

21 and love the buisness been doing it since I was 14.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

excellent post

1) you wonder why mexicans are all over the trades, some of the only people who want to work hard and learn something new everyday.

2) I have lots of visable tattoos, if potential customers want to judge me because of them, that is fine, I don't need your business. 

3) When I see "kids" eating chips all day, soda, smoking etc, I almost feel sorry for them, I always want to say come see me in ten years I wanna see what you look like. Because I know they are going to be a mess. Meanwhile I'm eating soy beans and fresh fruit and figs all day at work and they think I'm weird, yet my health is excellent for almost 40.

4) I don't know what happened to me but at age 14 I got a farm labor job and then remodeling work. I was super stoked to have those jobs. Always had money while my friends were asking mom and dad for cash.


The best is just this week the electrician pulls up to the job and we start talking out in the driveway, of course we're yelling, I ask how busy he is and he's turning down work, I tell him I'm doing the same and I need help Sure enough this girl next door says her friend is looking for work, I try to be nice, alittle bit later this kid shows up and I waste fifteen minutes talking with him. Typical bs.

I've got plenty of help but everyone seems to have some sort of limitations. 

The bottom line is yes I'm looking for help, I'm looking for a guy that can do everything drywall, framing, tile, cleaning, demo, trim, show up to work, track their tasks, have tools, on and on. But there is barely anyone out there that can cover all the bases. i'm willing to pay top dollar for this person but they are a rare commodity. 

The other option is I'm looking for a kid who will work for 10-12 bucks an hour and is willing to learn. Almost impossible again.

Would i dare put a listing in the paper? No because I'll waste 30 hours of my time interviewing idiot after idiot. I used to do that and it was a nightmare. Problems I ran into were: I don't have a car, can I get money right away I need some, they bring their girlfriend, mom, whoever to the job to help them interview, thye have tools but don't, they say everything you don't want to hear in the interview. That's my favorite.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

fast fred said:


> excellent post
> 
> 1) you wonder why mexicans are all over the trades, some of the only people who want to work hard and learn something new everyday.


 Because you want them to know 5 trades that take time to learn and you want to pay 10-12 an hour. There is a lot more to hanging drywall than throwing up random pieces and finishing is an aquired skill. Tile shouldnt even be on that list or framing its not just nailing wood together or glue tile. Thats one of the problems in the industry.

You think its so easy a novice can do it.

I think we we ask our youth to break their azz for 10 and hour and they can make that at a department store with guaranteed hour and climate control, the choice is a no brainer.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

fast fred said:


> Meanwhile I'm eating soy beans and fresh fruit and figs all day at work and they think I'm weird, yet my health is excellent for almost 40.


Yup, you're weird. Check back in about 25 years and let us know how that worked long term for ya. :laughing: :thumbsup:


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## catfish (Jul 19, 2007)

Tinstaafl said:


> Yup, you're weird. Check back in about 25 years and let us know how that worked long term for ya. :laughing: :thumbsup:


Well, he can't crap, and when he does it smells like a cowpatty.

Eat like a bull, be a bull. Eat like a chicken, be like a chicken.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i love reading how the young guys think the younger guys are worthless makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside:laughing:


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Beanfacekilla said:


> I think most people around your age just haven't fully matured yet.


You know, thinking about this, I think this is becoming a viscous cycle in western culture. In my experience, people tend to rise to whatever challenge and opportunity we are given. Look at in on the large scale. Many people call the WW2 generation the greatest generation, but I have no doubt that if we were faced with a similar crisis, we would also rise to that level. It's just that we live in times of relative peace and stability, and have become complacent. It doesn't mean that if a huge crisis happens, we're just going to sit around helplessly.

Today's society, in America, treats anyone under 25 like they're "just a kid", and so most young people behave immaturely as a result, simply because it's what's expected of them. They behave immaturely, and then society looks down on them for it. If you look at other cultures, like Japan for instance, the young folk are given opportunity and responsibility at a young age, and they rise to the occasion by being hard working and responsible for the most part. I am a big believer that the higher the expectations and opportunity given, the better the performance.

Today's generation is also fed a fairy tale about how if you work hard, you'll get ahead. That's how society works, they say. Still, it takes so much more than that. Luck is a huge factor in getting to a comfortable spot. Making the right friends is important too. Nobody on this forum got to where they are today without a little help or advice from someone else. As they watch their bosses make huge sums of money, buying themselves unnecessarily nice trucks and taking their families on vacations 3 times a year, but then turn around and say that "your performance just doesn't warrant a small raise right now", then they get bitter and stop caring. Honestly, to be a good employer is such a rare quality in people, but they end up doing well in the long run. They get the best workers, and those workers don't let them down as a result, keeping them successful even through hard times.

To answer the OP's original question: no, you're not the only one who gives a damn. Be glad that so many don't, because you will succeed where they cannot. If you truly are what you claim, and aren't just hyping yourself up, then you will probably be a boss someday. Just don't take that resentment of others with you if you can. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that to be a good leader, you must be able to see beyond the surface of a given situation and learn to understand all aspects. Your labor isn't going to be the brightest or the most responsible folks in the world. Still, it's best to try and find common ground with them if you can.


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## DuFast (Dec 15, 2010)

fast fred said:


> excellent post
> 
> 1) you wonder why mexicans are all over the trades, some of the only people who want to work hard and learn something new everyday.
> 
> ...


I can do all that.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

DuFast said:


> I can do all that.








You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition's given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you? And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed; pure West Virginia. What is your father, dear? Is he a coal miner? Does he stink of the lamp? You know how quickly the boys found you...all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars...while you could only dream of getting out...getting anywhere...getting all the way to the FBI."


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## Ragebhardt (Apr 25, 2010)

This whole thread makes me want to sing John Lennon's song "A Working Class Hero":laughing:


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

doubleoh7 said:


> you know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition's given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you? And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed; pure west virginia. What is your father, dear? Is he a coal miner? Does he stink of the lamp? You know how quickly the boys found you...all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars...while you could only dream of getting out...getting anywhere...getting all the way to the fbi."


wtf are you talking about? Jaw


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

jawtrs said:


> wtf are you talking about? Jaw


Is this coincidence, or are you back on the case? If so, goody-goody.


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

jawtrs said:


> wtf are you talking about? Jaw


Silence of the lambs quote.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Doubleoh7 said:


> Is this coincidence, or are you back on the case? If so, goody-goody.


Wow, sounded familiar but couldn't place it. Don't see the connection though. JAW


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## kcremodeling (Nov 8, 2009)

Most of the guys my age, got their first shot working in residential new construction. I'm 28 and don't know anybody in my line of work that is much younger than me. When residential construction died, the remaining positions became scarse. Companies were able to hire guys that already had experience. It really seems like there is now a shortage of younger guys that know what they are doing and are willing to work hard to get it done. 

Another thing to consider is the fact that most carpentry and general construction positions have not gone up in pay in the last 20 years. $10 hr doesn't get you as far as it did in recent past. In comparison to many other industries, construction just doesn't have a whole lot to offer. Many guys currently in the industry are forced to stick it out because it is all they know. It is much easier to walk away from something if you are not deeply invested. I really don't blame the younger generations for not having much interest in pursuing our industry. This will likely persist until there is an extreme shortage of skilled tradesmen causing wages to finally increase.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

kcremodeling said:


> Most of the guys my age, got their first shot working in residential new construction. I'm 28 and don't know anybody in my line of work that is much younger than me. When residential construction died, the remaining positions became scarse. Companies were able to hire guys that already had experience. It really seems like there is now a shortage of younger guys that know what they are doing and are willing to work hard to get it done.
> 
> Another thing to consider is the fact that most carpentry and general construction positions have not gone up in pay in the last 20 years. $10 hr doesn't get you as far as it did in recent past. In comparison to many other industries, construction just doesn't have a whole lot to offer. Many guys currently in the industry are forced to stick it out because it is all they know. It is much easier to walk away from something if you are not deeply invested. I really don't blame the younger generations for not having much interest in pursuing our industry. This will likely persist until there is an extreme shortage of skilled tradesmen causing wages to finally increase.




Supply and command.............


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## Austin B. (Oct 6, 2010)

I've had similar problems when approached for apprenticeships/young hires to fill positions. Back in the day, working was better than not working no matter what you were making because you were learning and gaining valuable experience... this would pay off in the end. Nowadays it seems kids want to be payed well to begin with without knowing anything or having the cumulative knowledge years of experience will temper you with.

If I am looking at hiring a 22 year old... I will look at their level of motivation above anything else. A motivated kid will go above and beyond to learn. If he's never had an opportunity to work in the field but has done stuff on his own (without pay) and I can see he truly wants to learn and listen, I will pick him above a kid that seems cocky and has a year of experience.


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Austin B. said:


> If he's never had an opportunity to work in the field but has done stuff on his own (without pay) and I can see he truly wants to learn and listen, I will pick him above a kid that seems cocky and has a year of experience.


That's refreshing to see. Too many employers want crazy amounts of experience for jobs these days, without every hiring on the entry level. Go to craiglist or careerbuilder, and every position wants 5 or 10+ years of experience in that particular field...


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Remodelor said:


> That's refreshing to see. Too many employers want crazy amounts of experience for jobs these days, without every hiring on the entry level. Go to craiglist or careerbuilder, and every position wants 5 or 10+ years of experience in that particular field...



There are so many people out of work that I bet they can get what they want.


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

I think that's a huge reason behind it. It's really sad too because many employers are getting a great deal on experienced people, and currently we're seeing many companies hold on to record profits because of it. They've cut their work force and pay. Since you can't just cut someone's pay severely, they just fire them. They take someone making 50k a year and replace them with someone who's just as qualified for 30k. 

And because of this trend of fire and hire, the market is flooded with people needing work. With so many people out of work, there's no big demand for products that would warrant more hiring, but by taking austerity measures, many companies are still showing profits. An even bigger problem is that there is a trend of holding onto money in the form of cash. It's really a bad recipe, because that money is being saved, not invested. By hoarding instead of hiring and investing, many companies are contributing to the recession, and possibly setting up for another bubble to burst as more and more people run out of unemployment to claim and government stimulus comes to an end.

So yeah, I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like there could be some more trouble on the horizon.


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## Jp1991 (Aug 13, 2011)

Finakat- I completely agree with you. There is a lack of true young professionals in the industry. I am 20 years old and have worked for my father, who is a gc, since I was 15 years old. My father is old fashioned and has taught me to take pride in my work and to be motivated. Most guys my age don't want to be involved in the type of work that I do. The ones that do give it a shot often are scared away by the hard work. Four months ago I broke my leg and ankle and have been out of commission since. My father did not even attempt to find a replacement because it was not worth the aggravation. It is a shame that more guys from our generation don't have the ambition to make it in this field. It's good to know that other young guys have a similar opinion because sometimes I feel like I am the only one that feels that the our generation is really lagging compared to past generations.


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

I just mentioned my best helper ever, over in introductions.

So this being the "Horrible Helper" thread, I must rant.

I won't lump all 23 year olds in one pot...
BUT, this kid I had a few days last week.

Teaching is one thing but, when it takes 10 hours with a helper, to get the same thing accomplished, as it took the day before in 8 hrs., by yourself, something is wrong.

he couldn't pick up a 5 gal. bucket full of sand.
He couldn't pull the barrel of the mixer to dump into the wheel barrow.

That was supposed to be his main function. Which I ended up doing anyway.
We were relaying a flagstone walkway, with about a 3" bed.

I really tried to teach him, how to use a shovel.
You think doping the stones is easy. :no: Not for him.

How about cleaning up? I had to clean everything he "cleaned".
I admit I am a little anal about cleaning the tools, but maybe not so much now, in one day the shovel, hoe and wheel barrow have aged 10 years.

I could go on, but i will spare you. :clap:

No brains. No braun.
I gave him a chance.
But, three days... Your outta here!

I really hate paying extra to work more.

Rant off.

Thanks, 
D.


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

"paying extra to work more" - That anecdote is all too familiar. 

I think many guys on here share the view that if the youngsters' attitude is in the right place, we can deal with a lack of skills. With the right attitude, the skills will come. I mean, we all had someone give us a chance when we were getting started, right?

At this point I've been going through people trying to find anyone that has a half-decent attitude. There's a few out there, but they're a rarity anymore. If the new guy is a lazy turd, no amount of reasonable motivation will make that lazy turd work, short of a bullwhip and a cattle prod. Suprisingly, having a legal job in a period of 13+% unemployment is not appreciated, but considered to be a God-given right by these turds. 

I won't even give them the 3 day trial period anymore 2~3 hrs max, and they're gone if their attitude sux. If I don't see the right attitude, then the people have gone from being people to be lead, to people to be managed. They are commodities with low value, and will be treated as such. When the usefulness is gone, they are gone. The term "rented mule" comes to mind.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

olligator said:


> "paying extra to work more" - That anecdote is all too familiar.
> 
> I think many guys on here share the view that if the youngsters' attitude is in the right place, we can deal with a lack of skills. With the right attitude, the skills will come. I mean, we all had someone give us a chance when we were getting started, right?
> 
> ...


This is why I work alone or hire skilled subs if the project requires it. It is too frustrating to watch someone struggle with basic skills that should come from common sense or effort.


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

who cares it leaves more work for you.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

Doubleoh7 said:


> You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition's given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you? And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed; pure West Virginia. What is your father, dear? Is he a coal miner? Does he stink of the lamp? You know how quickly the boys found you...all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars...while you could only dream of getting out...getting anywhere...getting all the way to the FBI."



DON"T GOT CHEEP SHOES BUDDY $200 dollar redwings

and oh-yeah my grand daddy was a coal miner too bad he died of black lung disease, life's a *****

so eat me


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I've had it with helpers. Fired my labourer last week for having a smart mouth and poor attitude. He'd been with me a year.

Now it's me and one other carpenter. I'll sweep the floor myself. I'm faster than he was anyways.

I'm not going to hire anymore idiots who just want to put in their 40 hrs and get a pay cheque. You need passion for what you do.


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

fast fred said:


> excellent post
> 
> 1) you wonder why mexicans are all over the trades, some of the only people who want to work hard and learn something new everyday.
> 
> ...


THEY BRING THEIR GIRLFRIEND BAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

at my full time job, the boss does something, you should try it out as it weeds people out before they even get an interview.

my boss will take applications, call them and say "you have to work for 1 full day for free, you wont get paid" he tells me some people refuse right then on the phone, and about another half dont even show up for the trial day. 

not me i had no problem doing that. let me show you what i can do! i might suck at an interview, but my work ethic might change your mind.


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

Doubleoh7 said:


> At this point in our history, a construction career makes about enough sense as a career in manufacturing.


 thats why i quit and found a stable job driving trucks. the other problem i found is contractors are so ready to cut the throats of help that you step the wrong way you're gone. but my situation works great, it leaves me plenty of time to work for myself, i'm not reliant on working for myself to make ends meet, the money is great because its all profit, all my overhead and then some is paid for by my full time job plus i have an apartment in my house that pays the mortgage, all my tools are paid for, i work out of my jeep cherokee. one day i will have a nice pick up truck maybe a shop? who knows who cares i just like money and using tools


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

nosecondchance said:


> THEY BRING THEIR GIRLFRIEND BAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
> 
> at my full time job, the boss does something, you should try it out as it weeds people out before they even get an interview.
> 
> ...



Why would I want to work for a boss who will deliberately go against state law and make someone work and not pay them.

As many have said, it takes a few hours to see what they are capable of. Let them work the 1 day or even a partial day and then let them go. There are many good workers out there that have ethics. And not being compensated for a days wage falls under and ethical guideline.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Over the years we have hired and fired lots of people. At this point we can usually tell in the first week if someone is going to work out. We prefer to hire married guys with kids. This dynamic seems to work since family typically translates into stability and a drive to succeed. Some of our best employees just needed to tools to succeed, which we provide and everyone consequently wins.


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

Leo G said:


> Why would I want to work for a boss who will deliberately go against state law and make someone work and not pay them.
> 
> As many have said, it takes a few hours to see what they are capable of. Let them work the 1 day or even a partial day and then let them go. There are many good workers out there that have ethics. And not being compensated for a days wage falls under and ethical guideline.


you gotta sign a paper acknowledging that you are working for free and its a trial day. they dont push you hard, my supervisor even said its more to see if the people will just show up. most who do show up get hired. 

the point of doing the no pay weeds out people who arent serious i think. either way, i'm not saying what to do just saying what my boss does and it seems to work. my boss is a very good guy. i have a very flexible schedule, if im sick he pays me for my time out, if i need to take a couple days off i never lose my pay check at all. in november i got very sick and was out for 2 weeks straight and he paid me for all the days out, it was during thanksgiving and he also paid me holiday pay. he's a good guy and takes care of his people. he's just had so many people come in, smash up trucks, lose customers, do all sorts of dumb stuff. anyone serious about the job will have no problem working for a day with out pay if their serious and confident.


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Over the years we have hired and fired lots of people. At this point we can usually tell in the first week if someone is going to work out. We prefer to hire married guys with kids. This dynamic seems to work since family typically translates into stability and a drive to succeed. Some of our best employees just needed to tools to succeed, which we provide and everyone consequently wins.


while im not married or have kids i have a house and i tell you when i bought my house it changed my work ethic real quick!


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

nosecondchance said:


> you gotta sign a paper acknowledging that you are working for free and its a trial day. they dont push you hard, my supervisor even said its more to see if the people will just show up. most who do show up get hired.
> 
> the point of doing the no pay weeds out people who arent serious i think. either way, i'm not saying what to do just saying what my boss does and it seems to work. my boss is a very good guy. i have a very flexible schedule, if im sick he pays me for my time out, if i need to take a couple days off i never lose my pay check at all. in november i got very sick and was out for 2 weeks straight and he paid me for all the days out, it was during thanksgiving and he also paid me holiday pay. he's a good guy and takes care of his people. he's just had so many people come in, smash up trucks, lose customers, do all sorts of dumb stuff. anyone serious about the job will have no problem working for a day with out pay if their serious and confident.


You cannot sign your rights away. If you work, you get paid.

Sounds like you have an exceptional boss. Nice of him to give you the sick time the way he does. But is still doesn't make it any less illegal to have someone work for you and not pay them.

Also, what happens if that person gets hurt on the job, are they working for you? Are they covered under WC


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## roofer up north (Apr 14, 2011)

well... you take God out of the schools...


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

Leo G said:


> You cannot sign your rights away. If you work, you get paid.
> 
> Sounds like you have an exceptional boss. Nice of him to give you the sick time the way he does. But is still doesn't make it any less illegal to have someone work for you and not pay them.
> 
> Also, what happens if that person gets hurt on the job, are they working for you? Are they covered under WC


you know im not sure. im glad i took whatever risk i did. i have a hard time he's blatantly breaking the law its a legitimate truck company, the town and state is up his a$$ as it is. and in my liberal state they would destroy him if he was actually breaking a law. his father is extremely rich, i'm talking top 1% of the population rich. he has lawyers on call, so again i doubt he has done something illegal... but who knows.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

In the last 6 months I've hired/fired 7 general labourers.

For everything from stealing, talking on the BB all day long, wearing their Ipod while working, lazy, cheating their hours, etc.

The 8th one I kept. But he's not normal. He's got some sort of mental condition, along the line of Aspergers. Without getting into it, let's just say other than general labouring he's pretty much unemployable.

Even as a GL, he once tried to move a 600V live line by himself :blink:

So I have to really watch him.

Very few kids nowadays take construction seriously. By and large...I don't blame them either. As employers, we promise the GLs that they are apprenticing. Mostly, that's a bunch of BS. We just need a mule to sweep the floors, take out the garbage and move materials around.

How many times do you need to sweep a floor before you can say you're really good at sweeping floors? How many boxes do you have to move before you can say you're an expert box mover. And then...so what? But we expect undying loyalty, strict observance of OUR rules/regulations, while exposing them to all kinds of dangers that could seriously hurt/kill them. 

So anyone with any IQ, would at the most GL for 3 months just to get their feet wet then move on and either get into some apprenticeship program or sell themselves as an apprentice to another company. So we get the bottom of the barrel then wonder why?!

Most of us are idiots being where we are as owners anyways. Most of us could probably take a 9-5 and make more money. Most of us are too stubborn to realize it. Most of us want to sell that dream to a bunch of kids then get pizzed when they don't see the end result as being as glamarous as we think we are. Most of us need to put things in perspective.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Heritage said:


> Most of us are idiots being where we are as owners anyways. Most of us could probably take a 9-5 and make more money. Most of us are too stubborn to realize it. Most of us want to sell that dream to a bunch of kids then get pizzed when they don't see the end result as being as glamarous as we think we are. Most of us need to put things in perspective.


I was just tired of relying on the unreliable. When you have a job with someone else you rely on them for your livelyhood. And if they want to let you go the do. And then you are stuck.

In the cabinet making field when the work is there it is fine, as soon as it got a bit slow they would start laying guys off. After one to many rounds of that I got tired of them expecting you to have total commitment to them but they can discard you as they please. They reprimand you for being 30 seconds late but think nothing of laying you off without any notice. 

I got sick of it one day and decided the only one I could rely on is myself.


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

Leo G said:


> I was just tired of relying on the unreliable. When you have a job with someone else you rely on them for your livelyhood. And if they want to let you go the do. And then you are stuck.
> 
> In the cabinet making field when the work is there it is fine, as soon as it got a bit slow they would start laying guys off. After one to many rounds of that I got tired of them expecting you to have total commitment to them but they can discard you as they please. They reprimand you for being 30 seconds late but think nothing of laying you off without any notice.
> 
> I got sick of it one day and decided the only one I could rely on is myself.


thats exactly why i said screw construction. but only after being out of it for a year i cant stop! i love doing it, so i figure i will just go out on my own, see where it leads. if anything i'm making extra money but if it turns into a real business then awesome!

i enjoy making the customer happy, i enjoy the challenge of winning jobs, being trusted with peoples homes, to the point my last customer gave me a set of keys so if her new tenant needs anything i can go in and take care of it. it truly is rewarding. it can be a massive headache but its enjoyable.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I have a set of keys from a client from the beginning of the job. She won't take them back. She wants me to have them just in case. I took care of an emergency problem while she was out of state and since then she just wants me to be able to get into the house just in case.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

I feel like its an overall lack teaching the value of earning by working hard. This starts at home while someone is still young. This doesnt mean that when a kid grows up they will have a great work ethic because everyone has free will and their own mind..even if it is a weak one in some cases. Overall, it seems like the people whos parents and grandparents lived through the great depression are the ones that inherently developed a roll up the sleeves and work hard mentality. Sure there are plenty of schleps from this generation too...but there has been a drastic decline in worker ethic since then. Like I said, I feel it starts at home..where everyones core values take shape.

I want my boy to be different than what is typical nowdays. To understand there is no shame in hard work and to feel the satisfaction from a job well done. He is only 4 but he loves to work..he helps me when he can and I try to be patient. We try to get him involved and he loves to learn. I`m not saying we are the perfect parents but who is. I just think if value and ethics were treated the way they were in the past then the current workforce wouldnt suck so much. We sure wouldnt want him to turn out like the losers described in this thread...and I`ll bust my butt to make sure he doesnt.


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## dprimc (Mar 13, 2009)

Heritage said:


> So anyone with any IQ, would at the most GL for 3 months just to get their feet wet then move on and either get into some apprenticeship program or sell themselves as an apprentice to another company. So we get the bottom of the barrel then wonder why?!


You make a really good point Heritage. I was fortunate to work for guys that took the time to teach me along the way when I was younger. I swept as many floors as I needed to, but was learning along the way.

Some guys think they deserve the world and that you are supposed to teach them everything, but aren't worth the time to train in anything. If they can't remember what you teach them, why spend the time? They are only good for sweeping, hauling trash, etc, but the guys that want to learn, and pick things up when you teach them, become too valuable to have sweeping for very long.

In high school, I worked for a company that started every employee with 'hell week.' Mine lasted two days. I got put on another job with one of the working owners and was resented by several other laborers.

As business owners, we have to give the new guys a chance to learn and grow, realizing that some will never be more than sweepers and haulers. 

We have to sift through to find the true gems. The ones that pay attention and think about process. They grab the tool you need next, or have something handy because they know it it is needed. They remember how you did something even though it was on a different job a month ago. Those are the guys you'd take the time to teach about everything you know. The rest may get tired of sweeping, but let them find another industry that better takes to their apathy, laziness, and indifference.


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## dprimc (Mar 13, 2009)

Stonecutter, I agree 100%. If my sons grow up with this entitlement mentality, I will feel like I failed as a parent.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

I have a kid who could build a computer from a transister radio and a potato, but after 5 years, he still doesn't know how to mark a 90 with a framing square, let alone why. 
where is that frustrated emot?


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## catfish (Jul 19, 2007)

nosecondchance said:


> thats why i quit and found a stable job driving trucks. the other problem i found is contractors are so ready to cut the throats of help that you step the wrong way you're gone. but my situation works great, it leaves me plenty of time to work for myself, i'm not reliant on working for myself to make ends meet, the money is great because its all profit, all my overhead and then some is paid for by my full time job plus i have an apartment in my house that pays the mortgage, all my tools are paid for, i work out of my jeep cherokee. one day i will have a nice pick up truck maybe a shop? who knows who cares i just like money and using tools


So you are not really a contractor, you are a guy that works some construction yourself for extra money. You don't know how to run a business, you have no idea about overhead and profit.

Probably no GL and WC either. In other words, a bootleg contractor. 

Any body else think this? This is a contractor site.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

nosecondchance said:


> thats why i quit and found a stable job driving trucks. the other problem i found is contractors are so ready to cut the throats of help that you step the wrong way you're gone. but my situation works great, it leaves me plenty of time to work for myself, i'm not reliant on working for myself to make ends meet, the money is great because its all profit, all my overhead and then some is paid for by my full time job plus i have an apartment in my house that pays the mortgage, all my tools are paid for, i work out of my jeep cherokee. one day i will have a nice pick up truck maybe a shop? who knows who cares i just like money and using tools


So, none of that is going to pay for taxes, insurance or licensing and fees.....:whistling


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## nosecondchance (Aug 11, 2011)

Leo G said:


> So, none of that is going to pay for taxes, insurance or licensing and fees.....:whistling


 :whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Just felt like I should post in this thread to add a little positivity.

I'm in Jersey, one town over from the OP, working hard every day for a company with another young guy who also works his butt off every day.
Let's try hard not to be catastrophists. Instead, give me a business card if you run into me so I know there's one other guy in the Clifton/Montclair area I can call when I need a reliable crew to help on a project.

If there's a shortage of hardworking young tradesmen in North Jersey, we can charge $700 to hang a door!

Cheers! See you on Rt. 3 at 6am tomorrow!


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Easy Gibson said:


> Just felt like I should post in this thread to add a little positivity.
> 
> I'm in Jersey, one town over from the OP, working hard every day for a company with another young guy who also works his butt off every day.
> Let's try hard not to be catastrophists. Instead, give me a business card if you run into me so I know there's one other guy in the Clifton/Montclair area I can call when I need a reliable crew to help on a project.
> ...


I dont think it is being catastrophists as it is being realists. Also, it was noted that there are good, hard working young tradesmen around... I even know a few myself. Unless I missed the point, the thread is more about how the majority of younger peoples attitudes regarding working in the trades is terrible. If it wasnt a valid point, I dont think there would be many posts that say there is a problem. 

Keep up the hard work...maybe others will follow your lead!


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## Spratley (Apr 14, 2008)

When my grandpa starting in construction, he worked his butt off all day for $2/hour. Nowadays you can't seem to find good help for 3 to 4 times that much. Kids these days . . . . .


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Spratley said:


> When my grandpa starting in construction, he worked his butt off all day for $2/hour. Nowadays you can't seem to find good help for 3 to 4 times that much. Kids these days . . . . .


And you shouldn't be able to. The value of a dollar in the 50's alone was about $8 in today's money if you look at an inflation chart. Only a complete loser or down on his luck fool would take a hard labor job for minimum wage. General labor in this business, ideally, would be at least $10-$12 an hour to start, seeing as it's hard labor where it's expected you learn new skills, and you're working in a moderately dangerous environment. A cashier typically makes $8, requires less skill and less effort in a climate controlled environment where the job is a set distance from home making the commute predictable.

Owners these days...


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## catfish (Jul 19, 2007)

You can get a job in Destin, FL at McDonalds for $10 an hour.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

Funny stuff happened yesterday.

I got a phone call from some friends that asked where they could get a laborer to do some yard work. They had a kid lined up and he bailed on them. So I call up my mexican network and provide them with a solid day laborer who works hard all day at a fair wage and is fully covered with insurance. No BS. 

Then later on I put the rubber gloves on and wipe down kitchen cabinets, the whole time thinking that I have much better things to do. But by the time I get somebody in there, show them how to do it, supervise them and watch them take 2-3 hrs to do it I could have done it all myself in 1hr.


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

i have all my kids work for me, my stepsons left for out of state to be with their dad, that didnt work out to well for them.but they both came back and worked they just choose to let the state supplement what they don't earn and cry poor me the blues.

my girls all know how hard it is to work in a skilled trade, they all made 15 bucks an hour and went on to do their own thing,they all bought their own cars and i matched what they saved, atleast they know what it takes to make a buck.

i realize this pic looks like a state job with everyone standing around but were in the planning mode. one is planning on shooting nails and the other is thinking of her new blazer, but they are up there hahahaha


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## catfish (Jul 19, 2007)

One son has worked with me since 12 years old. Hard work makes them at least THINK abou going to college.

He did go to school and played a few years of pro BB before getting injured, getting a job and going back to school.

The other one knew he didn't want any part of hard work. Strait A student and full scholarship to UF.


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