# Customers and unrealistic prices



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

fourcornerhome said:


> There is another side of the coin that's never addressed on CT.
> There are alot of people who simply don't have the money to pay for their repairs. What is the single mother working two minimum wage jobs with her leaking roof and rotted floor under the toilet supposed to do?
> The general advise here is it's the contractors fault that these people call you and that you need to market and sell yourself better.


And your point is?


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> Looks like they have all the tools and materials, I wonder why they can't do it themselves and save the $10/hr?


Maybe they tried to do it themselves, and they realized what kind of job it would be.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

I've seen worse ads. for a "lead carpenter" with his own truck and tools for $80\day.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

greg24k said:


> There is nothing new about this and we hear about this on this blog all the time.
> 
> With that said, being a professional contractor, WTF are you doing there in the first place looking to strap yourself into some BS job as this one.


Well to be perfectly honest I'm not a contractor I'm a union carpenter who does side work. I don't go out and advertise just by word of mouth. I occasionally search CL to see if I can pick up a quick job here and their. Believe it or not I have gotten 5 hardwood floor jobs, a kitchen, built an attached garage, and a deck of CL. All the customers paid in full upon completion, and if I ever had a weird feeling about them I just politely turned the job down


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## 98crewcab (Oct 7, 2013)

uhg...i have a few. as long as the three of them don't go crazy with taking advantage of my beneficence....I have no problem with it. Sometimes even come out of pocket for the one....she is 89 and has no family left she keeps saying shes gonna leave me her original 65 impala super sport......super sweet lady...



*sorry, was quoting "fourcornerhomes's" post on the 1st page....


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

ubcguy89 said:


> Well to be perfectly honest I'm not a contractor I'm a union carpenter who does side work. I don't go out and advertise just by word of mouth. I occasionally search CL to see if I can pick up a quick job here and their. Believe it or not I have gotten 5 hardwood floor jobs, a kitchen, built an attached garage, and a deck of CL. All the customers paid in full upon completion, and if I ever had a weird feeling about them I just politely turned the job down


I thought they referred to those guys as hacks and scabs?

Nothing directed towards you.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> This is all the result of kids being told that the only way to make a decent living is to go to college (Me being one of them kids). Cause and Effect. It tells everyone we do not value tradesmen, therefore they shouldn't get paid a decent wage. That very fact keeps many more skilled people out of the trades, leaving a labor shortage...meaning the price will go back up as more and more people realize the skilled workers are rare and only work for those willing to pay. I can't tell you how many people I work for that are frustrated with the lack of skilled tradesmen out there. Once they find you, they latch on for dear life and seek your approval for every other trade they need (recommend plumbers, electrician, painters etc etc)
> 
> Let these cheap asses get their cheap ass stairs....


We have very similar experience in the clients who call us.


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## TAHomeRepairs (Jun 18, 2012)

ubcguy89 said:


> Well to be perfectly honest I'm not a contractor I'm a union carpenter who does side work. I don't go out and advertise just by word of mouth. I occasionally search CL to see if I can pick up a quick job here and their. Believe it or not I have gotten 5 hardwood floor jobs, a kitchen, built an attached garage, and a deck of CL. All the customers paid in full upon completion, and if I ever had a weird feeling about them I just politely turned the job down


I don't know about where you are, but around here there are several things listed that require you be a LICENSED CONTRACTOR, not a journeyman carpenter. Sorry, kinda rubs me the wrong way, union guys always talking scab this and hack that, then doing illegal side work. 

I got a retired union carpenter neighbor, moved here from Massachusetts, now does all these "side jobs ". He says he shouldn't need to go through any licensing requirements, cause he's union certified. F*** that!! He wants to work here, he should be licensed and insured, not out undercutting those of us that play by the rules!!!

No offense, just sayin!


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

TAHomeRepairs said:


> I don't know about where you are, but around here there are several things listed that require you be a LICENSED CONTRACTOR, not a journeyman carpenter. Sorry, kinda rubs me the wrong way, union guys always talking scab this and hack that, then doing illegal side work.
> 
> I got a retired union carpenter neighbor, moved here from Massachusetts, now does all these "side jobs ". He says he shouldn't need to go through any licensing requirements, cause he's union certified. F*** that!! He wants to work here, he should be licensed and insured, not out undercutting those of us that play by the rules!!!
> 
> No offense, just sayin!


Can I thank this more than once?? I see ALOT of this where I am. 

It costs so much more to do this legal. It's unfair how guys do things the wrong way.


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## QCCI (Jan 28, 2013)

TAHomeRepairs said:


> I don't know about where you are, but around here there are several things listed that require you be a LICENSED CONTRACTOR, not a journeyman carpenter. Sorry, kinda rubs me the wrong way, union guys always talking scab this and hack that, then doing illegal side work. I got a retired union carpenter neighbor, moved here from Massachusetts, now does all these "side jobs ". He says he shouldn't need to go through any licensing requirements, cause he's union certified. F*** that!! He wants to work here, he should be licensed and insured, not out undercutting those of us that play by the rules!!! No offense, just sayin!


I hear ya there! That's the reason I got out of residential 15 years ago. I couldn't compete with the union carpenters doing side jobs for $20 bucks an hour cash on the weekend, with no insurance, licensing, or anything. They would slam up a house on one weekend or maybe two and steal nails from the company they worked for during the week, plus use their tools!


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Hehe...I love that you can price very similar jobs at very similar prices, customer A freaks out about how far out in left field the price is and customer B asks why it's so cheap! Perspective I suppose, yeah?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Next time you see or know of a union guy retired or not doing any side job picket the site and use a huge rat as well...let's see how they like it, can't believe a union guy would take food off your table doing things the wrong way.


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok, since we're hijacking this thing, what about a big union guy having non-union crews doing stuff on their own home??? I love asking why...it always comes down to price...duh!


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

TAHomeRepairs said:


> I don't know about where you are, but around here there are several things listed that require you be a LICENSED CONTRACTOR, not a journeyman carpenter. Sorry, kinda rubs me the wrong way, union guys always talking scab this and hack that, then doing illegal side work.
> 
> I got a retired union carpenter neighbor, moved here from Massachusetts, now does all these "side jobs ". He says he shouldn't need to go through any licensing requirements, cause he's union certified. F*** that!! He wants to work here, he should be licensed and insured, not out undercutting those of us that play by the rules!!!
> 
> No offense, just sayin!


For my own protection I do carry General liability insurance and I am licensed through the state as a GC. I'm doing absolutely nothing illegal, I pay taxes on my money made also. I play by all the rules.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I occasionally surf CL to pick up a few cash jobs. I came across an ad looking for a carpenter. Here is the ad


If everything is done legit, then why the need for "cash" jobs?


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Warren said:


> I occasionally surf CL to pick up a few cash jobs. I came across an ad looking for a carpenter. Here is the ad
> 
> If everything is done legit, then why the need for "cash" jobs?


You beat me to it.


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## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

ubcguy89 said:


> For my own protection I do carry General liability insurance and I am licensed through the state as a GC. I'm doing absolutely nothing illegal, I pay taxes on my money made also. I play by all the rules.


Sounds Like some BS back peddling to me


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

ubcguy89 said:


> For my own protection I do carry General liability insurance and I am licensed through the state as a GC. I'm doing absolutely nothing illegal, I pay taxes on my money made also. I play by all the rules.


Liability insurance doesnt protect you, it protects the homeowner. Sane with licensing.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Metro M & L said:


> Liability insurance doesnt protect you, it protects the homeowner. Sane with licensing.


Protects everyone all the way around and yes I may do a few cash jobs but I'm not here to debate ethics I'm here to talk about trades


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Anderson said:


> Sounds Like some BS back peddling to me


you mean backpedaling...


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

not sure where he lives, but here in NJ union journeyman carpenters make $90k a year plus OT and benefits.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

fourcornerhome said:


> There is another side of the coin that's never addressed on CT.
> There are alot of people who simply don't have the money to pay for their repairs. What is the single mother working two minimum wage jobs with her leaking roof and rotted floor under the toilet supposed to do?
> The general advise here is it's the contractors fault that these people call you and that you need to market and sell yourself better.


Saying that I love this work would be an understatement. I always said that if I hit the lottery I would still be swinging a hammer. I love the smell and sound of something be built: fresh cut pine, saw's humming - love it.

If money weren't an issue I'd hire great contractors and my company would work for free for those less fortunate and in need: vets, the elderly, single moms, etc. NOT THOSE FOOLS DRIVING A CAR THAT'S WORTH MORE THAN THEIR HOUSE EITHER - THAT EXPECT EVERYTHING AND APPRECIATE NOTHING.

But, until that day arrives I need to make a living. But I have done - and continue to do - too much work for free to those who couldn't afford it to remember. But, those jobs are not put on the calendar but done when time permits.


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## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

asgoodasdead said:


> not sure where he lives, but here in NJ union journeyman carpenters make $90k a year plus OT and benefits.


Around here union guys are making 70-90... If they're making less than that they are spending several weeks of the year not working collecting employment insurance cheques.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

NCMCarpentry said:


> Around here union guys are making 70-90... If they're making less than that they are spending several weeks of the year not working collecting employment insurance cheques.


around here journeymen still get $35/hr on unemployment. it's ludicrous.


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## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

asgoodasdead said:


> around here journeymen still get $35/hr on unemployment. it's ludicrous.


Thats nuts I think here unemployment caps out at $500 or so a week after tax


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

Which is still a ton of money for sitting on your ass.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

all you big time contractors talking down the poor, 
your racist. 

this is a job for my kid, summer job to learn how to do steps. 

its a job like any other, and she didnt say anything about being skilled, ya just gotta do her steps


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## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

brunothedog said:


> all you big time contractors talking down the poor,
> your racist.
> 
> this is a job for my kid, summer job to learn how to do steps.
> ...


13 steps though man... I agree with you to an extent but trusting a kid to figure out how to build something like that could turn into a safety issue fast. Say 7" steps x 13 that's nearly 8 feet high.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

the kids gotta learn somewhere, where else but on a cheap job for cheap clients.
plus I would stop by and give him a starter, and explain a bit how to handle the situation,


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

asgoodasdead said:


> around here journeymen still get $35/hr on unemployment. it's ludicrous.


Could you please back up that ridiculous claim with some facts?

Looks to me like $600/week is the cap for New Jersey. One of the highest in the nation, but a far cry from what you posted.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

Warren said:


> Could you please back up that ridiculous claim with some facts?
> 
> Looks to me like $600/week is the cap for New Jersey. One of the highest in the nation, but a far cry from what you posted.


I took the test back in January and asked a friend who's a journeyman what the rates are. he said $42/hr for journeymen and claimed unemployment pays $35. Then again, he also said he's never gone on unemployment in the 6 years he's been in cause his company is super busy.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

asgoodasdead said:


> I took the test back in January and asked a friend who's a journeyman what the rates are. he said $42/hr for journeymen and claimed unemployment pays $35. Then again, he also said he's never gone on unemployment in the 6 years he's been in cause his company is super busy.


Yeah I can't see the DOL paying out that rate. :laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

ubcguy89 said:


> I find it hard to believe nobody here ever worked for cash. You never did side work, I'm a guy trying to make don't like it kiss my ass. I'm going to keep doing side work, and trust me I'm not the guy doing work for $20 an hour. I bid my jobs off man hours and materials. Am I a rat? No, I employ myself and only union labor. Have I ever gotten on here calling you rats? No we all gotta eat at the end of the day


340 posts......

Another 660 and doors swing open into another world......:whistling


If someone says they never do cash deals - they are lying within thier words -Period!


People choose to put halos on to make them appear like "Mr. Rodgers"....

Maybe if they keep it going long enough, it becomes reality to them,,,,,,,:blink:



Ah.....


That's all I am going to say......



I live in the real world.....sometimes here.....people fly around with wings.....little angels......


Please...


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Pres, you know Fairies have wings too. Those flying around could be fairies


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I have a couple customers who pay me with "benefits". 

Oh yeah, Union scab or rat fink thingy, grrrrr.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

WWWAAAAAAAAHHHH! All you big time contractors harping on a guy who isn't taking any of your business. He says he gets his side work from CL. Now if you're established is that really taking jobs from you? There is more than enough business for every sized outfit, if you're good. Its one less phone call or email for an estimate request you'll never even have to deal with. Who cares if he's union. That puts him at a disadvantage as it is. No offense to the OP, but we all know how unions work. Go do your side work and when you learn enough you'll either be legit or do something else for a living.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Quad Racer said:


> WWWAAAAAAAAHHHH! All you big time contractors harping on a guy who isn't taking any of your business. He says he gets his side work from CL. Now if you're established is that really taking jobs from you? There is more than enough business for every sized outfit, if you're good. Its one less phone call or email for an estimate request you'll never even have to deal with. Who cares if he's union. That puts him at a disadvantage as it is. No offense to the OP, but we all know how unions work. Go do your side work and when you learn enough you'll either be legit or do something else for a living.


I am not trying to be legit or do anything else. Am I the best wood framer, no. Give me metal studs, drywall, millwork, casework, accoustical ceilings, I'm willing to go pay for pay against any of you. I know you are all huge big time contractors pulling million dollar jobs left and right, and I'm taking massive amounts of work from you. Fact is most of you would kill to be in my position, but since your either in a right to work state, or never got the opportunity you treat a 25 year old kid like **** for trying my ass off to make a few extra bucks so I can afford a down payment on a house. I have no desire to to "steal your work" but I do have a desire to make money. Say what you want but I work my ass off. I know you all say union guys don't work, but I hate to say that ain't the case. Trust me I'm not the guy that goes out picketing, but after getting treats like this from all you big shot contractors you can politely blow me.


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

...and to think, this all started with a $10/hr CL ad that someone probably actually bit on, someone who needed some work to buy their children some food...


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

ubcguy89 said:


> I am not trying to be legit or do anything else. Am I the best wood framer, no. Give me metal studs, drywall, millwork, casework, accoustical ceilings, I'm willing to go pay for pay against any of you. I know you are all huge big time contractors pulling million dollar jobs left and right, and I'm taking massive amounts of work from you. Fact is most of you would kill to be in my position, but since your either in a right to work state, or never got the opportunity you treat a 25 year old kid like **** for trying my ass off to make a few extra bucks so I can afford a down payment on a house. I have no desire to to "steal your work" but I do have a desire to make money. Say what you want but I work my ass off. I know you all say union guys don't work, but I hate to say that ain't the case. Trust me I'm not the guy that goes out picketing, but after getting treats like this from all you big shot contractors you can politely blow me.


Do they handle you with kid glove on union jobs?

When I was 25, I go abused to no end on jobs. Toughened me up real fast. If you can't take a little hazing on these boards, how you gonna survive the long haul in const?

As far killing to be in your position? Why would I want to go back to being an employee rather than owning my own company?


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

ubcguy89 said:


> I am not trying to be legit or do anything else. Am I the best wood framer, no. Give me metal studs, drywall, millwork, casework, accoustical ceilings, I'm willing to go pay for pay against any of you. I know you are all huge big time contractors pulling million dollar jobs left and right, and I'm taking massive amounts of work from you. Fact is most of you would kill to be in my position, but since your either in a right to work state, or never got the opportunity you treat a 25 year old kid like **** for trying my ass off to make a few extra bucks so I can afford a down payment on a house. I have no desire to to "steal your work" but I do have a desire to make money. Say what you want but I work my ass off. I know you all say union guys don't work, but I hate to say that ain't the case. Trust me I'm not the guy that goes out picketing, but after getting treats like this from all you big shot contractors you can politely blow me.




Dude you got me pegged wrong. Sure I work for myself. I don't even have a helper Though. I do every single solitary thing on my projects. Most of the guys on here would think I'm a hack because I don't hire out to all the trades. The fact is most of their "great" tradesmen send the new guy or other idiots to do the jobs for them. I have 100% customer satisfaction and have had since 2001. During a so-called bad economy. You'll not get any respect from me for being union but I aint gonna hate on you for working hard. I cut my teeth finishing drywall commercially on a crew that finished several hundred sheets a week so I know all about the metal studs and acoustic ceilings you can have all of it. I wish you the best of luck I wasn't picking on you, well other than being union. lol


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