# customer cancel's work at last minute



## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Had a frustrating day today.

I have had this job scheduled for a past customer, we did his kitchen and two bathrooms and living room in his upstairs recently. While we were doing the upstairs he and his brother in law completely took apart the basement. (he just bought the place)

when the upstairs was done and everything was said and done, he said he was interested in getting us to do the basement.

I have been working there on and off for the past couple weeks getting it through the framing inspection and vb/insulation inspection, bringing in my buddy on subcontract basis to work with me. I had confirmed everything with the HO and my guy that we will be finishing the basement from here. 

My contract is pretty basic, and has been [email protected] for all work done ,with payment schedules, the reason being that the HO couldn't make up his mind about anything in advance to give a proper fixed price for the work, bit of a gong-show, however the work done so far went smoothly. The bulk of the material: drywall, doors, etc is already on site, paid for by HO before we were even brought into the picture. We are clear on payment for work that has been done to this point, no issues there.

Now that we are ready to board and tape he is asking me for a quote specifically for the drywall hanging and finishing alone, and that he is getting other quotes. We were set to start monday. He says he wants to continue with us but wants to get other quotes before it goes ahead. as I think this basement is a bit of a bigger job than he had thought.

I don't have a problem with him getting other quotes, and giving a fixed price for the drywalling, however I do have a problem that it's at the last minute, when we've been planning this for weeks and i've turned down other work, like WTF? If it was two weeks ago it would have been different. The work is good that we've done, no complaints of any kind. After we've been getting him through inspections and waiting to get through all the inspections.

I'm just pissed off, wondering how others would handle it before I respond to him. I actually should have seen it coming as I saw him cancel on some painters at the last minute and go for a cheaper (immigrant) deal.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

I'd give him the names of some drywall subs that you know are fast and similar in price to yourself.

You know that this customer is impulsive and not the best---If you want to finish up the rest of the work get past this hurdle.

---Mike---


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

Either T&M isn't going the way he planned/expected or he thinks you're not that good of a drywaller and for what he's paying you he can find professional drywallers that will do it better/faster.

He's not really qualified to assess those things, but if that's how he feels then that's how he feels. Whoever said the world is fair?

If in your T&M contract you specifically had drywalling the basement in the SOW, then I'd say you have a legitimate grievance.

If you didn't...it's hearsay.

As upset as you are, you have to conduct yourself with dignity. What I would do is probably talk to him and say:

"Look Mr. X, we had an agreement to start this work on Monday under T&M. From the onset I tried to work with you, you didn't have your ducks in a row so I gave you T&M to accomodate YOU. The work we did for you...are you happy with it? Good, so why do you want to change things now? 

I gave up 3 other jobs to book you in on Monday because I figured we're here now, we're helping you out, you've been very nice to us, no point in skipping out mid-stride in developing a relationship. Now you're asking me for a fixed price on something we agreed would be T&M, and you're getting other quotes on Sunday when we're supposed to start on Monday. I want to work with you but I could have been on another job on MOnday. An agreement is an agreement and I hate to bring it to this point because I like you and want to work with you but I can't work with someone that doesn't honour an agreement. I'm sure that's not really you, maybe you're just anxious and I understand that. 

I'll give you a fixed price but we're either starting on MOnday or I have to take another job. I'm sorry, but my company has a schedule and right now you're not respecting that."

Let the chips fall where they may. IMO, that approach is still accomodating while preserving some back-bone.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

You should tell him that it would have been nice if he could have planned ahead because now your schedule is screwed up. Tell him in a nice way that your are disappointed with him basically


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

I hate it when customers do that crap. They leave you running around trying to fill that day. Customers wonder why you have to charge what you do to cover overhead. I explained to one recently, that i schedule a week out. By tuesday of that week, its all messed up. Either customers changing things up, materials not coming in or the money wasnt there. So, its not like everyday is 9-5.

You can bet thou, if he is doing this now, he will do it again. So, its either try and get the drywall as t/m or watch some other dude work on it. If he brings in someone else, I would be done with the project.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

it's not so much a fixed price that gets me, it's that he is leaving it open to bidding at the last minute. Or saying "i've had two drywall companies give me quotes" this is a day and a half before we are set to start boarding, all of our tools are on site, he has made no mention of this before.

he has said that he wants to keep using us, so the more I think about it the more I think he is trying to put a little pressure on me to give him a good deal, so whatever I will just give him a price with some profit built in and let it fall where it will. Really not much I can do other than that.

I might do a lttle side note explaining that we had scheduled everything to accomodate him, and that this at the last minute really screws everything up, and now I have to explain to my partner that I brought in, sorry there might not be any work that i've been promising for the last 3 weeks

anyways, its good to see other's take on it, thanks for the input


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I'd take a different angle on this.

Work up your number, get it too him immediately and explain to him that you have other jobs backed up and can start them at any time.

Should he choose to delay the job, he will go to the bottom of the work order pile and will be given the same courtesy as your other customers, in the order in which the contracts were signed.


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## MikeGC (Dec 6, 2008)

Even tho he is 100% wrong, making him feel like an idiot or defensive with logic isnt going to work IMHO

I would suggest letting him know that you turned down other work to stay available for him and you always put customers first but have to consider how to fill your schedule last minute if he chooses another contractor. 

Tell him you thought things were going well up to this point and ask him directly if he thinks the same.

I would not say "you this" and "you that" and "you suck." It doesnt work. It backfires.

In my view the amount of money he has spent is starting to shock him into this knee jerk reaction,. Its emotional so attacking him with logic aint gonna work.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

It is not the customers' fault that they cancel at the last minute, waste our time getting free estimates by the handful, or pressure us for a good deal.

It is the our fault for not charging a commitment fee, for giving free estimates and dropping our prices by ridiculous amounts.

BTW the line:"my buddy on subcontract basis to work with me." speaks volumes.

As contractors, we can't expect customers to respect us if we don't respect ourselves.

Mark


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Actually this one turned out pretty well. I gave him a quote and expressed to him politely that he has put me in a hard place seeing as I had turned away work and lined up a good carpenter.

Turns out he did have some reservations about the [email protected], and figured he could get a better price with a quote. He said my quote was a couple thousand over the other one, and that I was welcome to requote.

I told him my price was a good price for a quality job and that I would be by to pick up my tools tomorrow. He came back by saying he would like to hire me for the job, at my price. :thumbsup: I also have a seperate contract additional to this one for furring strips and some other prep that is needed. So in the end I should enjoy a healthy profit off this job, much more than I was making with the [email protected] setup.

so looks like what started as a negative ended up as a positive.

btw the reason I am "subcontracting my buddy" is because i'm fairly new at being in business for myself and am not at the point of having full time employees, this job is larger than usual. I am more comfortable bringing in help on a contract basis, other guys who work on their own as well. I'm just not at that point yet.

I dunno, I don't see what's wrong with subcontracting a qualified carpenter to help me out, a guy I know does good work and gets done in a day what needs to be done, better than hiring someone off the street who may or may not be a benefit to me.

anyways, thanks again for input.


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

if it doesn't work out, take the building permit with you, and have it cancelled.


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## bender_dundat (Feb 20, 2011)

Lesson learned. I'm not sure how I could conduct business without a contract and a scope of work. Plus a deposit to schedule the work. There are a lot of ways to lose money and lost opportunity costs are one of them (although hard to quantify until you have a situation like this).

I'd give the guy an estimate but tell him you're scheduling other work and should he choose your crew to do the basement, you'll schedule him in when time allows. And move on.


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

I would make sure there is a deposit on the drywall work.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Rob PA said:


> I would make sure there is a deposit on the drywall work.



yep, learned the hard way (almost) about leaving yourself open to getting ripped off.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

bender_dundat said:


> Lesson learned. I'm not sure how I could conduct business without a contract and a scope of work. Plus a deposit to schedule the work. There are a lot of ways to lose money and lost opportunity costs are one of them (although hard to quantify until you have a situation like this).
> 
> I'd give the guy an estimate but tell him you're scheduling other work and should he choose your crew to do the basement, you'll schedule him in when time allows. And move on.


 

yeah definitely a bit of a wake up call, never had this kind of situation come up but i'd definitely like to avoid it in the future, not good for my bloodpressure.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I can't say that someone who is this impulsive has ever been a client of mine. But, we always have a detailed scope of work with timelines, progress payments and deposit requirements as part of our project estimate. 

Knowing what I know about human nature and behavior, I might not have taken this job. The guy sounds flighty and really price conscious, especially if he was trying to do some of the work himself. 

Anyway, it's good that you had a one on one with him and worked it out. 

I plan and schedule up to three months in advance, so every project has it's dates, along with some padded time for unknown delays or hold ups. 

Still though, I let people know that other projects are coming up and they need to make decisions by a certain date, otherwise we are off on another project. 

Without a solid written and signed commitment, I don't turn down work to accommodate someone that can't or won't make up their mind. Its that old "bird in the hand" thing.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

loneframer said:


> I'd take a different angle on this.
> 
> Work up your number, get it too him immediately and explain to him that you have other jobs backed up and can start them at any time.
> 
> Should he choose to delay the job, he will go to the bottom of the work order pile and will be given the same courtesy as your other customers, in the order in which the contracts were signed.


That's exactly how we handle deals like this. I make sure they know we're busy & highly sought after & put the urgency on him, whether I've actually got other work or not.


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