# Tools: Employee vs. Employer Responsibility



## Yianno (Dec 11, 2014)

I've worked for two larger companies in my lifetime and their rule of thumb was they supply all major power tools and specialty tools. We supply all the basic stuff. Now the owner of the second builder I was working for said one day it's out responsibility to supply everything besides miter and take saw cause they had 2 new ones. 

I think some tools should be provided by the employer and some by the employee to an extent. Myself I prefer to use my own tools, even when I am working as a company employee. I've had bad experiences using company tools, always seems to be a bad seed who thinks they know everything and go around like a police office and inspect how you are using a tool. 

I do have to say its fair to say if the employer wants you to supply your own skill saw or recip saw that they supply you blades . Or when your blades ruin they replace it, trade the crap one into your supervisor and they give you a new one. However, I do think its fair to say that if the employer makes you use your own they should replace it if something happnens to it on their site.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

if you're working at an office you don't bring your own computer. if you're flipping burgers you don't bring your own fryer. so why should I bring my own power tools to make someone else money? contractor is already making money on me and I have to increase his profit on me even more by clearing his tool overhead which he already gets a tax write off on and I don't?(i tried to write off my tools last year and my accountant said since I was an employee I couldn't)


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## A. Finelli (Aug 14, 2014)

I have one of everything just in case someone forgets their speed square, or tape measure, or hammer in the truck or at home, ect..., I don't require anyone to bring expensive tools, I supply them and when they wear out I'll get new ones, its part of my overhead charge and it's a write off plus those expensive tools make me money, the small tools help my guys make money. It's also been my experience that most guys have those tools that just "fit nice" in their hands and they'd rather use them anyway, that's on them, if their skilsaw breaks it's on them or if their drill batteries die it's on them since I supply everything they need. No one has a problem with it and it seems to work just fine. ~Anthony


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## Robinson1 (Mar 14, 2014)

Employees supply their own bags and basic hand tools. (Hammer, tape, speed square, cats paw, utility knife) I would prefer you have your own chisels, pliers, screwdrivers, tin snips, ect. 

I supply everything else. 

Exception to this is new hires, I'll loan them some stuff until they get their first paycheck. 

I've had guys that wanted to supply everything including extension cords and ladders. And I've had guys show up with tie on aprons and 12 oz hammers. I find that the guys somewhere in the middle are the best employees.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

EthanB said:


> It boils down to the agreement at hiring.


For the union guys it means what is in the contract, I've personally seen carpenters go and start another local because of squabbles over who is responsible for supplying anything at any given time.

I've also seen non union shops that basically treated their employees as subcontractors and expected them to supply everything except material.


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## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

We have ten carpenters on our crew. They all supply their own skillsaw. Two of the higher paid ones have their own nails guns because they prefer to bring in their own to ensure they don't get stuck with one of the older guns. The company (me), owns approx. 8 skilsaws of our own. We have two 8 1/4, two mikita left blade, and six wormdrives. If I had to supply all the saws I would have eighteen skilsaws. We have basically one nail gun per employee. If someone expects to get paid 20 plus dollars an hour and cant supply one two hundred dollar tool, they aren't much of a carpenter. We have about 100 grand in tools. I don't think bringing a skilsaw is too much to ask. We buy the blades ect. I have had employees in the past ask for a raise if they brought their own tools from home. This doesn't work for us. If the employee brought in a thousand dollars worth of tools, and you gave them a dollar raise, they have the tools paid off in about five months. Then you would be just losing money on the extra wages after that.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

muskoka guy said:


> We have ten carpenters on our crew. They all supply their own skillsaw. Two of the higher paid ones have their own nails guns because they prefer to bring in their own to ensure they don't get stuck with one of the older guns. The company (me), owns approx. 8 skilsaws of our own. We have two 8 1/4, two mikita left blade, and six wormdrives. If I had to supply all the saws I would have eighteen skilsaws. We have basically one nail gun per employee. If someone expects to get paid 20 plus dollars an hour and cant supply one two hundred dollar tool, they aren't much of a carpenter. We have about 100 grand in tools. I don't think bringing a skilsaw is too much to ask. We buy the blades ect. I have had employees in the past ask for a raise if they brought their own tools from home. This doesn't work for us. If the employee brought in a thousand dollars worth of tools, and you gave them a dollar raise, they have the tools paid off in about five months. Then you would be just losing money on the extra wages after that.


this makes no sense. you have 8 saws but no one uses them cause they all have their own? then why do you have those 8? also its common sense that if there's 10 guys on a crew only 5 saws and 5 guns are being used since carpenters should work in pairs. oh, wow $20/hr?! how generous. and you're making $20/hr on each guy. or should be or you aren't charging enough. I have a saw in my truck and sometimes I bring it out if I want to, but if a contractor ever said I NEEDED my own saw I wouldn't work for that cheap scumbag. do you 1099 your employees as well?


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## SAcarpenter (Oct 10, 2008)

I have worked as a framer for fifteen years and only ever had to bring a pouch and basic hand tools. The company supplies one hard hat a year but we are in charge of safety shoes and glasses. If my boss decided to make us supply our own tools, i would quit on the spot. That is the worst way to conduct business with your employees I can think of. Other than making them all sole proprietors. 
Your basically taking a huge chunk of your expense a d moving it to profit and who cares about your employees.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

SAcarpenter said:


> I have worked as a framer for fifteen years and only ever had to bring a pouch and basic hand tools. The company supplies one hard hat a year but we are in charge of safety shoes and glasses. If my boss decided to make us supply our own tools, i would quit on the spot. That is the worst way to conduct business with your employees I can think of. Other than making them all sole proprietors.
> Your basically taking a huge chunk of your expense a d moving it to profit and who cares about your employees.


For many small framing crews up there. Having your own circ saw was always a requirement as a "carpenter". Personally I supplied everything else. Paid for repairs and blades. 

To me there's a big difference between being an employee and a good employed carpenter. But any discussion about that always devolves into the worker against the man...


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Texas Wax said:


> For many small framing crews up there. Having your own circ saw was always a requirement as a "carpenter". Personally I supplied everything else. Paid for repairs and blades.
> 
> To me there's a big difference between being an employee and a good employed carpenter. But any discussion about that always devolves into the worker against the man...


I wouldn't say that it is a requirement, but most experienced carpenters also have a decent set of tools. A lot of the go getters will also be the ones seeking out side work. As a boss, with several jobsites going, it is nice if a guy has an extra saw of gun available in a pinch. While I would never require them to bring them to work, it is nice if they have them in their truck, just in case. 

As far as making $20/hr off of each employee, that is downright hilarious. :laughing:Funny how employees think that we make so much more than we actually do.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Warren said:


> As far as making $20/hr off of each employee, that is downright hilarious. :laughing:Funny how employees think that we make so much more than we actually do.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: and :laughing::laughing::laughing: some more


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

Warren said:


> I wouldn't say that it is a requirement, but most experienced carpenters also have a decent set of tools. A lot of the go getters will also be the ones seeking out side work. As a boss, with several jobsites going, it is nice if a guy has an extra saw of gun available in a pinch. While I would never require them to bring them to work, it is nice if they have them in their truck, just in case.
> 
> As far as making $20/hr off of each employee, that is downright hilarious. :laughing:Funny how employees think that we make so much more than we actually do.


the framing crew I was on, our prices reflected a 50% profit margin(before taxes). obviously not making $20/hr on your lead guy, but you're making more on the lower guys and it should all even out. if you charge a customer say $75/opening to install windows and your $20/hr carpenter installs 2 in an hour you didn't just make $130/hr on top of him?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

asgoodasdead said:


> the framing crew I was on, our prices reflected a 50% profit margin(before taxes). obviously not making $20/hr on your lead guy, but you're making more on the lower guys and it should all even out. if you charge a customer say $75/opening to install windows and your $20/hr carpenter installs 2 in an hour you didn't just make $130/hr on top of him?


No.


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## SAcarpenter (Oct 10, 2008)

Texas Wax said:


> For many small framing crews up there. Having your own circ saw was always a requirement as a "carpenter". Personally I supplied everything else. Paid for repairs and blades.
> 
> 
> 
> To me there's a big difference between being an employee and a good employed carpenter. But any discussion about that always devolves into the worker against the man...



You're right, there absolutely is a difference between just an employee and a good employed carpenter. That is all up to them though, it has nothing to do with who should supply tools and equipment. I do have most of my own tools and occasionally I'll use them at work, but again, thats my choice. 
Our company is looking to expand/upgrade as well. We are looking to get 2-3 new trucks and a skytrak. Should i supply that too?


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

asgoodasdead said:


> the framing crew I was on, our prices reflected a 50% profit margin(before taxes). obviously not making $20/hr on your lead guy, but you're making more on the lower guys and it should all even out. if you charge a customer say $75/opening to install windows and your $20/hr carpenter installs 2 in an hour you didn't just make $130/hr on top of him?


He does all this with no supervision? Did I have to spend anytime bidding the job? What about my other costs such as WC, GL, Unemployment, Fica, Payroll, etc? What How does he do the other 7 hours that day?


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

yes there's obviously other overhead costs. but you're still making good money on him. if you weren't, you'd fire him.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

SAcarpenter said:


> You're right, there absolutely is a difference between just an employee and a good employed carpenter. That is all up to them though, it has nothing to do with who should supply tools and equipment. I do have most of my own tools and occasionally I'll use them at work, but again, thats my choice.
> Our company is looking to expand/upgrade as well. We are looking to get 2-3 new trucks and a skytrak. Should i supply that too?



Capital equipment is a different animal and using that as equivalent to circular saws, nail guns ect not relevent


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

circular saws and nail guns are production tools used to increase production and make money for the contractor. i'll hand nail all day if the contractor doesn't provide a nail gun.


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## pl_silverado (Oct 19, 2014)

Everything is provided where I work, clothes, boots, hand tools, power tools, consumables.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

asgoodasdead said:


> circular saws and nail guns are production tools used to increase production and make money for the contractor. i'll hand nail all day if the contractor doesn't provide a nail gun.


Or we could just send you home early if the guns or compressor break down. I see the employee/employer relationship as a partnership. I have their best interests in mind as well as my own. I appreciate when guys can go to their truck and bring out a tool that we either broke or forgot. When things are busy, this is especially important. When things get slow, we tend to remember the guys who were team players.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

yes, I've brought my own tools out when I've wanted to or the supplied tools have failed. that's different than a contractor demanding I provide my own on a daily basis.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I supply my own hand tools, belts, and full combo kit (drill, impact, circ saw, sawzall). I can supply enough tools to trim a house but that's not my responsibility. I do occasionally bring in tools if the company tools break down but that's short term.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

asgoodasdead said:


> yes, I've brought my own tools out when I've wanted to or the supplied tools have failed. that's different than a contractor demanding I provide my own on a daily basis.


That's great you're willing to help out, when you feel the need.


Kind of cold to go from supplying to demanding employees supply own tools. Typically underlying issues with care of owner supplied equipment.

Obviously in a new hire situation you have the choice to not take the job or negotiate fair compensation for 'use' of your tools. 

As Warren said it's a team situation for most 'contractors'. If it's not and one is a good carpenter, time to find better employment.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

We supply everything except nail bags and basic hand tools. They take our trucks to the site (although if I was a framing contractor I wouldnt use company trucks) so they cant get their saw out if one breaks. 

When I was coming up in the trade, everywhere I worked outside of commercial you brought your own stuff. I had everything from an air compressor and nail guns and a sliding compound miter saw by the time I was 19. By the time I was 21, I had multiples of most everything and a home made welding trailer with a welder and torch. It seemed to reflect in my pay. 

While tools arent a part of the equation, attitude reflects in pay on our crew. Not everyones Christmas bonus will be the same next Friday.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

I supply all of my own tools; from basic hand tools to power tools, and I am using my own vehicle for transporting them. 
I don't supply shovels or rakes, etc... 
I'm just about fully equipped to handle most renovation carpentry and trimming tasks. 
Should I be compensated for this? 
The new company I work for does have most of the tools, but they are not always available if someone else is using then on another job, and I prefer to use my own anyways.


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

I've never seen someone get so butt hurt about a 100 dollar tool in my life


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## Lugnut1968 (Dec 11, 2014)

I supply all the tools/equipment for the folks I use. I have had people in the past who also bring their tools in because that is what they like to use. When they do that I ask them to make sure their name is on them... and all of my major tools have my company name engraved on them. Never really had a problem with "employee theft" thankfully, but then again my crew is usually less than 5 folks.


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## SAcarpenter (Oct 10, 2008)

schaefercs said:


> I've never seen someone get so butt hurt about a 100 dollar tool in my life



I'm not just referring to a single saw here. ( although the OP was just asking about a gun and saw so yes $300 or so isnt that much) I'm talking about an employer requiring an employee to supply all their own tools. For me that list adds up to thousands 

A guy that worked for us recently quit and works for a remodeler who requires all tools be supplied by the employees. He does give a$500 annual allowance and did pay for some of the guys start up tools ( i think it was a cordless kit) but that doesn't go very far

For the record, I'm not offended at all by anyone's comment. I'm just arguing for the sake of discussion


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## Lugnut1968 (Dec 11, 2014)

SAcarpenter said:


> For the record, I'm not offended at all by anyone's comment. I'm just arguing for the sake of discussion


Glad to see there are folks like this around here. It's going to feel like home :thumbup:


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

SAcarpenter said:


> For the record, I'm not offended at all by anyone's comment. I'm just arguing for the sake of discussion




I wasn't referring to you


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## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

asgoodasdead said:


> this makes no sense. you have 8 saws but no one uses them cause they all have their own? then why do you have those 8? also its common sense that if there's 10 guys on a crew only 5 saws and 5 guns are being used since carpenters should work in pairs. oh, wow $20/hr?! how generous. and you're making $20/hr on each guy. or should be or you aren't charging enough. I have a saw in my truck and sometimes I bring it out if I want to, but if a contractor ever said I NEEDED my own saw I wouldn't work for that cheap scumbag. do you 1099 your employees as well?


Quite often if you are doing high roofs, you cant have enough saws or guns. Nothing like passing a gun up and down trying to frame a high wall. Its not unusual when filling in bastard valleys to have three saws at one cut station. Two set at different angles, and one set square. 8 1/4 saws I supply as I don't expect people to supply specialty tools. As far as making $20 per hour, we have guys that make far more than that. My point was if you make more than that and cant supply a cheap saw, you aren't much of a carpenter. Sounds like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today. Leave your saw in the truck.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

sounds like you're not much of an employer if you can't supply a cheap saw. do you go for coffee and make your guys chip in for it too?


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

I think it's not quite as black and white as some people are making it. When I was an employee, my boss supplied all air and power tools. This made sense. I'm there to make him money, so it should be his tools that get there wear and tear, not mine.

That being said, I owned most of the essential tools for framing. And on occasion, when one of the tools broke or my boss had to take the trailer to a different job for the day, I had no problem with using my own tools for the day while my boss took his tools elsewhere. Obviously he left me whatever he could, but if I have the choice between using my bosses POS backup Skill Saw with a dull blade, or my own Skill Saw that goes through lumber like a hot knife through butter, I'm going to use my own tools. While obviously this isn't part of a formal agreement, I think it's fair to expect a lead hand to have enough tools to get the boss out of a jam, on occasion.

In short, the boss should supply tools for every day use. As an employees skills and responsibilities grow, so should his ability to function independently. Guys at this level _should_ also be paid appropriately for their value :whistling.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

thehockeydman said:


> I think it's not quite as black and white as some people are making it. When I was an employee, my boss supplied all air and power tools. This made sense. I'm there to make him money, so it should be his tools that get there wear and tear, not mine.
> 
> That being said, I owned most of the essential tools for framing. And on occasion, when one of the tools broke or my boss had to take the trailer to a different job for the day, I had no problem with using my own tools for the day while my boss took his tools elsewhere. Obviously he left me whatever he could, but if I have the choice between using my bosses POS backup Skill Saw with a dull blade, or my own Skill Saw that goes through lumber like a hot knife through butter, I'm going to use my own tools. While obviously this isn't part of a formal agreement, I think it's fair to expect a lead hand to have enough tools to get the boss out of a jam, on occasion.
> 
> In short, the boss should supply tools for every day use. As an employees skills and responsibilities grow, so should his ability to function independently. Guys at this level _should_ also be paid appropriately for their value :whistling.


Great attitude!:clap:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

As a tool junkie, it warms my heart to see employees with tools also. I have given thousands of dollars worth of tools to several employees over the years to help them build up their collections. Typically, at Christmas, a tool gift card in addition to a cash bonus is given.


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## SAcarpenter (Oct 10, 2008)

thehockeydman said:


> I think it's not quite as black and white as some people are making it. When I was an employee, my boss supplied all air and power tools. This made sense. I'm there to make him money, so it should be his tools that get there wear and tear, not mine.
> 
> That being said, I owned most of the essential tools for framing. And on occasion, when one of the tools broke or my boss had to take the trailer to a different job for the day, I had no problem with using my own tools for the day while my boss took his tools elsewhere. Obviously he left me whatever he could, but if I have the choice between using my bosses POS backup Skill Saw with a dull blade, or my own Skill Saw that goes through lumber like a hot knife through butter, I'm going to use my own tools. While obviously this isn't part of a formal agreement, I think it's fair to expect a lead hand to have enough tools to get the boss out of a jam, on occasion.
> 
> In short, the boss should supply tools for every day use. As an employees skills and responsibilities grow, so should his ability to function independently. Guys at this level _should_ also be paid appropriately for their value :whistling.



Exactly the way I operate!👍


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## SAcarpenter (Oct 10, 2008)

Warren said:


> As a tool junkie, it warms my heart to see employees with tools also. I have given thousands of dollars worth of tools to several employees over the years to help them build up their collections. Typically, at Christmas, a tool gift card in addition to a cash bonus is given.



It feels like I've given thousands of chalklines away. Maybe not dollars though


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

Warren said:


> As a tool junkie, it warms my heart to see employees with tools also. I have given thousands of dollars worth of tools to several employees over the years to help them build up their collections. Typically, at Christmas, a tool gift card in addition to a cash bonus is given.


it warms your heart cause it lines your pocket. and the tool gift card gets spent on tools they're gonna use working for you so you make even more.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

asgoodasdead said:


> it warms your heart cause it lines your pocket. and the tool gift card gets spent on tools they're gonna use working for you so you make even more.


I think its more of a heart warming thing to see an employee who cares enough about his trade to invest in it.

I don't purchase roofing nail guns are the hoses for their guns (I do have multiple hoses that get used though). When I did buy the guns at $200-300 a piece, it was surprising how quickly that added up and how much I ended up replacing them. Then one year I thought to myself "a roofing gun is the most important tool for a roofer to use these days, anyone serious about the trade will have their own."

I was right. It was no problem finding guys with their own guns. Turns out its expected around here.

Everything else I own multiples of but still seems like the guys prefer their own drills when needed.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

When I had a bigger crew I bought all the tools for everyone except hand tools and a cordless drill. I always had a spare cordless or two but liked the guys having their own because out of everything I supplied these got beat up the most.

I ran into the problem of respect for tools. So I assigned them their own tool. It was their respinsibility. If a tool broke I was cool with it and paid as long as it wasn't because something was left in the rain or something stupid. The lead loved this. Every morning a line to oil up the guns, the lead had them taking care of stuff. Never actually had to make any of them pay for anything and when I let them all go I sold them "their" tools cheap.


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