# Drying out a rough frame, New Const.



## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

loneframer said:


> That's a good eye deer:thumbsup:


What do you call a deer that can't see..........


no eyed deer


What do you call a deer that's not moving and can't see.......



still no eyed deer




Bad huh?.............:no:


----------



## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

What would be better....(we haven't set any windows yet)....

to frame in a box fan @ the 2nd floor window RO blowing out and knocking out some of the rafter bay blocking with the furnace running in the basement. That way the hot moist air gets sucked out and venting? Or keeping the structure tight and just using dehumidifiers?

The house is already 75* insulated. ICF foundation, SIP panels. Only the rims joists and rafters are left.

Our original thinking was to hurry and get the structure sealed so it can dry out. Now I'm thinking (because it's already a tight house), we need to let the place vent.


----------



## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> What would be better....(we haven't set any windows yet)....
> 
> to frame in a box fan @ the 2nd floor window RO blowing out and knocking out some of the rafter bay blocking with the furnace running in the basement. That way the hot moist air gets sucked out and venting? Or keeping the structure tight and just using dehumidifiers?
> 
> ...


In my opinion, I would keep the place closed up to retain heat, but dehumidification is paramount.


----------



## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> When you get the dehumidifier*S* working you will be amazed how much water you haul out of that house.
> 
> I'll start the pool at 32 gallons.


I think it would be more than that just think about how much water is in drywall mud and paint and that is hardly an issue.
I would wait as long as possible to insulate, is it an attic space or vaulted?
If attic wait until every thing else is done.
It will cost more $ to run the heat but it will dry out


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

warm air will carry more moisture,
then the dehumidifiers can wring it out. :thumbsup:


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

bconley said:


> I think it would be more than that just think about how much water is in drywall mud and paint and that is hardly an issue.
> I would wait as long as possible to insulate, is it an attic space or vaulted?
> If attic wait until every thing else is done.
> It will cost more $ to run the heat but it will dry out


Your best course of action is to keep the place warm, circulate as much air across the sheathing you need dried out and run a few dehumidifiers to wring the the air dry.

I had to dry 7000 sq ft of commercial building out after a long wet winter in the Pacific Northwest. I pulled about 85 gals of water from that building before carpet.

We rented the gear from a fire restoration company. They were good at planning the attack too.


----------



## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

I worked on a job that developed mold during framing.

The HO freaked out so the contractor brought in a mold remediation co. to dry it out.

From what I can remember they pumped super dry air into the house,
the dry air would absorb the moisture before venting out.

It was really expensive and quite a process but it worked.

It was a condo project, so after that happened all the other HO's wanted their's dried out too.


----------



## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

installing a cieling fan or two would be nice to pull the air up and move it around.

working on a project right now that is an insurance water damage deal, every week a guy comes by from the fire water restoration company and checks the humidity of the house and records it. The insulation and drywall cannot be installed unless he says it's ok.

ps. I don't miss working in humidity of ny.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

fast fred said:


> installing a cieling fan or two would be nice to pull the air up and move it around.


Yep. I do that just to alleviate the 20° temp difference from high to low.


----------



## pappagor (Jan 29, 2008)

if you have a temp heat co call them they can heat it with dry air and be done in less then 3 day. call a com contractor to find out who they use. 
you might talk to your insulation guy about doing one inch of open cell to start with.


----------



## galla35 (Feb 27, 2009)

Id install a fan or hang a box fan  i never thought of that and get a few dehumidifiers running give it a few days and shell be nice and dry... Also keep it sealed tight for heating purposes


----------



## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Thanks to all!

I think the foreman and I just had this game plan in mind....The closed cell foam is an area that is relatively new to us and we're not as educated about building systems as we like to think.

We've been battling set backs, budget constraints, and scheduling all the while, so we were a little aggravated by yet another obstacle.

With 6' of snow since the beginning of Dec., and temps not getting above 25* in as long, we really were looking forward to having indoor work....and having work when the weather gets inefficient.we're forced to send guys home.:sad:

I appreciate all the input. We just need to be patient....We still have ALL the mechanicals to rough in (subbed), a lower roof to frame, windows, ext. trim and siding.

It's not like we don't have work, we just have to switch gears!

If our Insulation contractor can spray 1" open celled we'd be back on track! This project has been a great learning experience on many different levels!


----------



## PVC Trim Guy (Dec 3, 2009)

I believe the condesation on the bottom of the sheathing is caused by the warm inside air coming in contact with the cold surface and reaching the dew point. I always ice and water my entire roofs, usually with grace, but I always have soffit and ridge ventalition. The sheathing needs to be able to dry to one side or another. I good book to look at for advice is called "The Moisture Control Handbook".


----------



## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> Thanks to all!
> 
> This project has been a great learning experience on many different levels!


 For the majority of *us *as well.:thumbsup:


----------



## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

When we showed up today things had dried out remarkably well....No condensation, and the powers that be OKed us to spray tomorrow.

We didn't test the roof deck, so I suppose i'ts arguable whether we're doing the right thing, but thanks again.


----------



## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

loneframer said:


> My first question is, what are you heating with? Propane will dump more humidity into the house. I believe Kerosene will as well. I'd suggest dehumidifiers if you want to pull the moisture level down.


Yes. Propane and kerosene are both hydrocarbons, and hydrocarbons always form water, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide when they burn. (Thank you college chemistry...) Is it a significant amount? I couldn't tell you.

I would suggest heating while forcing air outside (like a negative air pressure system during demolition) to remove the moisture. Either that, or use dehumidifiers as suggested above. If you've sealed up the house, that moisture isn't going anywhere just because you heat it up  You have to bring in new air from outside that is dryer to absorb the moisture, and then you have to blow it outside.


----------



## Insuranceclaims (Aug 31, 2009)

If you still need help, let me know.

It sounds like you have all types of structural drying issues, which without proper drying will lead to dry rot, mold, an unclean breathing environment and unnecessary demo and rebuild.

I have 16 years of restoration and insurance adjusting experience. Structural drying, including new construction, is a specialized field.

All framing needs to be properly dried and the Relative Humidity needs to brought to an acceptable level before any more construction is done.

There are issues with the OSB, the GRACE I&W, sheathing, wall framing and any sub floors.

If you still need help, let me know by e-mail or phone, and I will try to get you someone in your area ASAP.

I am currently in SW Florida, but I have contacts all over the country. Without proper drying methods, this structure has the potential to turn into a real headache.

Mark 
210-823-3864


----------



## grafcustom (Jan 9, 2010)

FYI: Quoted from Fundementals of Building Construction Fourth Edition, 

"The Moisture percentage at which wood will begin to mold or is capable of supporting mold growth is 19%... ideal moisture percentages for rough framing prior to finishing 7-9%... ideal moisture percentage for millwork, cabinetry, trim, prior to installation- 5% or less."


----------



## Burns-Built (May 8, 2009)

Hey WNY I know its probly to late but for future reference...

If you run around on the insulation forum you'll here different opinions but the under side of that sheathing should need to breathe. I suppose this is just strictly opinion but rip a 2x4 in half and nail it tight to the roof against your rafter. Rip 1/2 or 3/8 ply to run up the bay than foam it. You can even put 2" foam up against that lumber then spray over that. 

This way your sheathing can breath but the house is still sealed. So you would still need to get that moisture down but at least you could spay it, and still run the dehumidifiers.


----------



## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Burns-Built said:


> Hey WNY I know its probly to late but for future reference...
> 
> If you run around on the insulation forum you'll here different opinions but the under side of that sheathing should need to breathe. I suppose this is just strictly opinion but rip a 2x4 in half and nail it tight to the roof against your rafter. Rip 1/2 or 3/8 ply to run up the bay than foam it. You can even put 2" foam up against that lumber then spray over that.
> 
> This way your sheathing can breath but the house is still sealed. So you would still need to get that moisture down but at least you could spay it, and still run the dehumidifiers.


That thought hadn't even crossed my mind...If my thinking is right, with closed cell foam you can still add some ventilation...to go a step further (without losing 2"of rafter depth... we could rip .75x.75" strips to carry insulboard and foam to that. 

it would be a bit of extra work and we'd have to calculate how to get the proper r-value, but there wouldn't be any question about moisture on the roof deck prior to insulation.....I'll mention that, thanks!


----------



## grafcustom (Jan 9, 2010)

Burns, you are so smart!


----------



## wheeler (Feb 8, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> That thought hadn't even crossed my mind...If my thinking is right, with closed cell foam you can still add some ventilation...to go a step further (without losing 2"of rafter depth... we could rip .75x.75" strips to carry insulboard and foam to that.
> 
> it would be a bit of extra work and we'd have to calculate how to get the proper r-value, but there wouldn't be any question about moisture on the roof deck prior to insulation.....I'll mention that, thanks!


2" closed gets your vapor barrier and the hybrid systems usually call for flame-spread as opposed to paper backed. i like burn's approach. good luck, sounds like a bell-ringer.


----------

