# Time to look for a new trade?



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Dgr999 said:


> Being more capitalized won't make my phone ring though. Rig or no rig is not the issue when there's two weeks without a call.


 because you have no reputation or any real stake in the local market.


and are unwilling or unable to chase any sizeable work.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

griz said:


> Dgr999 said:
> 
> 
> > Being more capitalized won't make my phone ring though. Rig or no rig is not the issue when there's two weeks without a call.
> ...


Yeah you're right about that. I have no builders.

But there's also the homeowner/service side of the business which is pretty big or Angie'slist/ha/etc wouldn't even bother with it. Being that I'm top of page one Google with most + best reviews I definitely have a stake in that side.

I just need to figure out the right way to capitalize that market since I don't have a quarter million laying around to get a bunch of rigs and start foaming apt complexes or subdivisions


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

Speak of the devil, just had a air seal request come through.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

It sounds like people need education to help get you business. Take a look at SLSTech's website, it's a great educatiin source and sales tool.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

hdavis said:


> It sounds like people need education to help get you business. Take a look at SLSTech's website, it's a great educatiin source and sales tool.


Thanks, I'll give you a thumbs up or whatever it's called when I can figure out how to do that from my phone


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't use it as a sales tool, really, and I wirk almist exclusively in really old houses. I use a Fluke Ti25 thermal imager to identify the things which actually will guve the best return for the customer.

Uf I wanted to make insulstion retrofits by life and needed ti get leads bad enough, I'd consider giving free thermal checks. They're normally around $400 here, and it takes me around an hour to do one. Nobody wants to pay that.

I've also considered charging $1 per pic, with no analysis. May not be a bad way in the door for you, and make $50-100 for an hour's worth of work.

Used Ti25s run $1-2k


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Dgr999 said:


> I've done all forms of advertising and in the end the majority of calls come from organic google search. *The problem is only 30-40 people per month search for "insulation contractor" between the two mid size cities I show up in*. So* not many apples to pick off this tree.*
> .





Dgr999 said:


> *Yes, you are right on about the under capitalized part. *
> 
> *I don't actively market to gc's *at least until I had one year under my belt. The reason being is that while I can handle the work, most are net30 and I don't feel comfortable putting it all on the line to wait on my checks just yet...





Dgr999 said:


> As far as fiberglass goes, *I'm the 2nd cheapest of 4 serious companies. *Most 3-4 blow/week companies buy from the supply house. The big national chain company that works for *nationwide builders buys from manufacturer*, and *they charge almost double my rates* on attic blows. And *I'm very happy with my margin*..





Dgr999 said:


> *Being more capitalized won't make my phone ring though.* Rig or no rig is not the issue when there's *two weeks without a call.*


Your answers are in your own posts... After re-reading your posts above with the relevant text highlighted, you don't see the issue here?

Another quick question which will also add clarity... do you pay yourself out of the "profit" after everyone else has been paid?


When you go two weeks waiting on the "phone to ring", what are you doing during that two weeks?


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

hdavis said:


> I don't use it as a sales tool, really, and I wirk almist exclusively in really old houses. I use a Fluke Ti25 thermal imager to identify the things which actually will guve the best return for the customer.
> 
> Uf I wanted to make insulstion retrofits by life and needed ti get leads bad enough, I'd consider giving free thermal checks. They're normally around $400 here, and it takes me around an hour to do one. Nobody wants to pay that.
> 
> ...


I currently do a thermal check for free. I used to run blower door + thermal tool, but now I just use thermal tool or even sometimes a plain old temp guage if you use it carefully.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

I'm thinking of charging to come look at houses at this point. I drive 80 miles to pull and replace trim or sheetrock, crawl thru attic etc all for them to never open the quote.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

One guy I know joined every single facebook group that held a professional related or personal interest. He'd join in on the discussions of composting, remodeling, or whatever, and made sure he came across as likeable. He got his name out there and at least a little reputation. He actually got a lot of leads that way. Didn't cost anything but idle time.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

KAP said:


> Dgr999 said:
> 
> 
> > I've done all forms of advertising and in the end the majority of calls come from organic google search. *The problem is only 30-40 people per month search for "insulation contractor" between the two mid size cities I show up in*. So* not many apples to pick off this tree.*
> ...


Not sure if I follow, I know those are some problems, being put in a nutshell : 1: audience and 2: capital (if I want to be a sub)

My pay comes after all expenses, and budget set for 1 week material costs. I pay myself min wage at the end. 

In my downtime I work on building backlinks to my site so it can rank in future cities or looking for odd jobs to fill gaps so I can pay rent.

Also the big guy charges double in the hopes they don't get pulled off a subdivision to do it, once in a blue moon they'll land a retro. Raising my sq ft price by .10 would put me as the highest priced (other than them).

So what it boils down to for me, at this financial point in time is audience. I can't get the money to grow until I get more interest, and that's what's hard. People love to show off a new kitchen but not a new attic lol


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

hdavis said:


> One guy I know joined every single facebook group that held a professional related or personal interest. He'd join in on the discussions of composting, remodeling, or whatever, and made sure he came across as likeable. He got his name out there and at least a little reputation. He actually got a lot of leads that way. Didn't cost anything but idle time.


You da man


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Dgr999 said:


> Not sure if I follow, I know those are some problems, being put in a nutshell : 1: audience and 2: capital (if I want to be a sub)
> 
> My pay comes after all expenses, and budget set for 1 week material costs. I pay myself min wage at the end.
> 
> ...


There's a lot you seem to be missing in your own words... Not criticizing you, trying to get you to think deeper about it...

If you're the 2nd cheapest of 4 serious companies, don't have 3-6 months of Capital Reserves and/or Emergency fund, are paying yourself minimum wage out of the "profit" after everyone else is paid at the end of the job (and I assume they made more than minimum wage) yet you are "happy with your margins", while the national guys are scoring hits in your market at TWICE what you charge, what does all that information tell you?

Profit is not what you pay yourself, but what you pay your company to be able to develop Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund / Equipment purchases... what you pay yourself, including loaded costs (i.e. - taxes, SS, health insurance, retirement, etc.), should be accounted for under Labor just as you would account for someone you employed... 
*L**abor -* what you pay yourself, employees and includes loaded costs described above plus any targeted bonuses and/or benefits you'd like to pay yourself... 
*O**verhead -* annualized and variable costs (i.e. - insurance, WC, 
*M**aterials -* Materials (indluding an accounting of consumables which are often overlooked) plus mark-up to cover costs of ordering, handling, delivery and delivery labor, etc.
*P**rofit -* is calculated as a percentage of the above three and is set aside to develop things like Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund / Equipment purchases and put you into a position to broaden your market...​Your Hourly Rate (how long you expect the work to take) will be comprised of Labor and Overhead costs... then add Materials and Profit... keep these separate... if you find you are not accounting correctly for how long it takes, until you have it solid, multiply the number of hours you estimate times a factor of 1.25...

Where you are at right now, based on your posts, you will always find yourself in rob Peter to pay Paul cycles because being in a position to have to pay yourself minimum wage out of the profit at the end of the job, instead of a salary that is part of the mix, what happens if something goes wrong? Mr. Murphy is an EXPERT at making that happen when you can least afford it...

Putting all your eggs into the internet basket and waiting for calls works for some industries... but reputation, willingness to get out there and press the flesh is what will drive relationships... you've already identified you can't rely on the one market... seems to me you already know you have to broaden your market to include GC's / Builders...


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

KAP said:


> There's a lot you seem to be missing in your own words... Not criticizing you, trying to get you to think deeper about it...
> 
> If you're the 2nd cheapest of 4 serious companies, don't have 3-6 months of Capital Reserves and/or Emergency fund, are paying yourself minimum wage out of the "profit" after everyone else is paid at the end of the job (and I assume they made more than minimum wage) yet you are "happy with your margins", while the national guys are scoring hits in your market at TWICE what you charge, what does all that information tell you?
> 
> ...


If I charged national company xyz rates I would have had landed 10% of the jobs. Sure, I may have been able to convince some little old lady, that a 10" cap of fiberglass in her attic is $4000, but I'd rather be homeless before I go to those tactics. Those are not their standard prices and I understand that when factoring my prices. I was within 10 cents of everyone before I knew what everyone was charging. My price is my price. 

And yes I understand profit and loss. But if I don't land a job until next year I'm not going to be able to keep dipping into the cookie jar. I'd just have to cut my losses.

I'd rather be able to invest in a piece of equipment now and then, rather than a tv, paying myself good consistent salary. My number one priority is making sure there is max money in the company account, because if there is no company then what's the point of it all.

I started the business with less than $2000 back in May. No credit, no full time employees, just rental trucks, equipment, etc. Bare bones. Bought a box truck two months later, blower last month. If I would have waited for an "emergency fund + 3 months capital reserves + truck + blow machine + foam rig + money to back a months worth of sub work" well...I'd be waiting a pretty long time.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

Just remember I started with $2000. I would have failed in a week booking out a bunch of sub jobs. Any given house material + labor your looking at $900+ material and labor. Multiply that by three jobs a week for a month you're looking at $10,800 minimum to even get my feet wet.


----------



## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

There ya have it...did you quit your job with $2k in your pocket and the thought of 'hey, I'll make fat cash blowing insulation'?? 

The truth is, being in business yourself is hard crap. Not having a customer base before being out on your own is harder. Heck, I'm in a roaring economy area and have been around the remodeling industry my entire life and still wonder if I'm gonna make a profit at the end of this year or now. That said, I do have cashflow coming in and out and bills are paid at the end of the months. It took me not taking pay for a year and banking it all so that those reserves were built up. 

Honestly, it sounds like you've got some ambition but a lot of down-time...likely enough down-time to have a part time job with someone else in a complimentary business that may be able to help feed your business until you have some steady work. A new construction builder that feeds you a regular business is going to be what you need...Retrofit insulation guys don't get tons of referrals, I can't think of the last person I had ask me if I knew someone to blow insulation in their attic or air seal something...instead it's normally part of a larger project I take on and I'll call my insulation guy. We add on to the house built in 1950, I'll often get them to remove the old insulation in the attic so it's all equal...


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

mstrat said:


> There ya have it...did you quit your job with $2k in your pocket and the thought of 'hey, I'll make fat cash blowing insulation'??
> 
> The truth is, being in business yourself is hard crap. Not having a customer base before being out on your own is harder. Heck, I'm in a roaring economy area and have been around the remodeling industry my entire life and still wonder if I'm gonna make a profit at the end of this year or now. That said, I do have cashflow coming in and out and bills are paid at the end of the months. It took me not taking pay for a year and banking it all so that those reserves were built up.
> 
> Honestly, it sounds like you've got some ambition but a lot of down-time...likely enough down-time to have a part time job with someone else in a complimentary business that may be able to help feed your business until you have some steady work. A new construction builder that feeds you a regular business is going to be what you need...Retrofit insulation guys don't get tons of referrals, I can't think of the last person I had ask me if I knew someone to blow insulation in their attic or air seal something...instead it's normally part of a larger project I take on and I'll call my insulation guy. We add on to the house built in 1950, I'll often get them to remove the old insulation in the attic so it's all equal...



I didn't quite think I was going to get rich, but I didn't think I'd already be buying equipment either. The job I was at was spreading hours thin, so it was sink or swim. 

And your advice is exactly what I was thinking, if it's slow in September, I can only imagine what October will be like. So winter job >> come back in the Spring swingin and hopefully pick up a builder here and there.


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

It is usual for subs to be paid after the job, but it also is pretty common for a builder to help a good sub out. Most builders I know would front the materials for a full house job, or to get you started on their development.

Look for the small guys. The 4 or 5 houses a year types who prefer working with a select crew. Sure, it won't keep you going, but it will get you into a new group of folks.

Honestly though, I'm still a bit confused as to what you actually do. Full insulation job? Just retro air sealing? Putting a seal under the framing?

You've mentioned all those things. I can't imagine a standard customer ever calling for an air sealing job. Maybe that's why you don't get calls. It's just not a priority in your area.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Dgr999 said:


> If I charged national company xyz rates I would have had landed 10% of the jobs. Sure, I may have been able to convince some little old lady, that a 10" cap of fiberglass in her attic is $4000, but I'd rather be homeless before I go to those tactics. Those are not their standard prices and I understand that when factoring my prices. I was within 10 cents of everyone before I knew what everyone was charging. My price is my price.
> 
> And yes I understand profit and loss. But if I don't land a job until next year I'm not going to be able to keep dipping into the cookie jar. I'd just have to cut my losses.
> 
> ...


You're missing the point entirely... but if you're own words followed with detailed comments delving into them in more depth don't demonstrate it to you, then it sounds like you've got it all figured out... 

There's lots of avenues you can explore... contacting your supply house and/or other yards and finding out who is the biggest purchaser of the materials you install and contact to sub, getting your name out to GC's / builders literally by going to jobsites and asking questions, developing relationships with other subs who know know the former, subbing for your previous employer(s), etc. All while still trying to service the RESI market...

All of it takes time... you've been in business a couple of months... but it's going to be difficult to get there with your current MO... you're not the first one to start a business on a shoe-string... most everyone has been there... but every new business is different as to when they eventually come to realize if they aren't taking a steady salary WHILE paying their company an profit to develop what's needed to run a business long term... this board is FULL of examples of comments "I wish I realized I wasn't charging enough earlier"... but sometimes, you actually have to go through it...

Being the 2nd cheapest, the nationals selling at TWICE your price, paying yourself minimum wage after everyone else is paid out of the "profit" as opposed to paying your company, etc. you don't seem to realize you're not charging enough to be in business because you apparently think doing so is akin to ripping off little old ladies as opposed to finding the number that supports your business... :no:

ALL money that runs a business comes from the customer... if they're not paying enough to support your business, there is only ONE place it ends up coming out of, and you're experiencing it first hand now... 

YOUR pocket...


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

VinylHanger said:


> It is usual for subs to be paid after the job, but it also is pretty common for a builder to help a good sub out. Most builders I know would front the materials for a full house job, or to get you started on their development.
> 
> Look for the small guys. The 4 or 5 houses a year types who prefer working with a select crew. Sure, it won't keep you going, but it will get you into a new group of folks.
> 
> ...




Retro:
>Air Sealing (attic floor with foam kit, gun foam, foam board, or combination)
>Blown Fiberglass
>Insulation Removal
>Duct Sealing
>Vapor Barrier (crawlspace)

New Construction: 
>Insulation - Blown, Batt fiberglass typically
>Air Sealing (as far as builder wants me to go with it, typically would be bottom, plate, penetrations, and maybe post sheetrock top plate for max tightness).


I worked at 2 volume companies and 1 retrofit company and these were what was on the menu. 

You don't need to type in "attic air sealing company to find me" though, I'm listed as an insulation contractor, and I typically tell the customer all I offer over the phone, or they see it on my site.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

If you're having ti soend a lot if time traveling and quoting to get no response, maybe setting uo to be abke ti routinely generste a quite and cintract in the spot would help. 

Some people on here will do a one call close, meaning they shoot to walk out with a signed contract the first time they go to look.

It takes some training, and I don't know how the sales pitch is handled. There is at least one thread on this. Roofers may use it more than other trades.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

KAP said:


> You're missing the point entirely... but if you're own words followed with detailed comments delving into them in more depth don't demonstrate it to you, then it sounds like you've got it all figured out...
> 
> There's lots of avenues you can explore... contacting your supply house and/or other yards and finding out who is the biggest purchaser of the materials you install and contact to sub, getting your name out to GC's / builders literally by going to jobsites and asking questions, developing relationships with other subs who know know the former, subbing for your previous employer, etc. All while still trying to service the RESI market...
> 
> ...


Good info, but you're still way off with the price thing. Being 2nd cheapest puts me in the middle of my market. Top of my market is $1.00, bottom is .85- .90. National guy is $2.00 for the hopes someone will bite. I'd rather stay in the median and keep my here and there jobs. I couldn't open a gas station at double the going rate and win, could I? 

Out of 35 customers this summer
If I went to .70/cents I would have maybe landed 4 extra customers over the summer.
If I went to 1.20/ I would have lost at least 10. 

This may be my first year in business, but not my first year bidding jobs. Currently .90 nets the most. Last year it was .70 before fiberglass shot up. $1.20+ people start to not call you back or even open the quote.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

KAP, I will start approaching GC's though. I just always heard my past employers whining about checks not coming or them not answering the phone is why I've been hesitant. Don't want to make this little bit I've built go poof into thin air.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

Maybe it's the area I'm in but the builders that have approached ME, have been pretty flaky. I had one tell me about 3 houses he had going up, told me to come baffle one he had about ready to go and he'd meet me, show me the rest of them, and give me a check to start. Thought it was kind of odd since we'd only spoke over the phone. 

Went and did the baffles. He never showed up. I called him, he said he was going through a tunnel. No tunnels in our area?? Then he blocked my number. I guess he thought he got away with getting $20 in baffles? I don't know, just been through some odd characters around here.

But I'm still not against doing sub work, just don't want to get screwed.


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

hdavis said:


> If you're having ti soend a lot if time traveling and quoting to get no response, maybe setting uo to be abke ti routinely generste a quite and cintract in the spot would help.
> 
> Some people on here will do a one call close, meaning they shoot to walk out with a signed contract the first time they go to look.
> 
> It takes some training, and I don't know how the sales pitch is handled. There is at least one thread on this. Roofers may use it more than other trades.


Yep that is the best tactic. I actually do that most of the time and it works very well. Most of the ones I loose is because they mistakenly call me (think they have no wall insulation but really do, ac going out, etc). Nothing you can do about those.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Dgr999 said:


> Good info, but you're still way off with the price thing. Being 2nd cheapest puts me in the middle of my market. Top of my market is $1.00, bottom is .85- .90. National guy is $2.00 for the hopes someone will bite. *I'd rather stay in the median and keep my here and there jobs.* I couldn't open a gas station at double the going rate and win, could I?
> 
> Out of 35 customers this summer
> If I went to .70/cents I would have maybe landed 4 extra customers over the summer.
> ...


If $.90 or $1.00 does not support your business, it's irrelevant... you need to charge what YOU need to be in business and look for the customers that can support it...

You're casting your line at everyone right now (i.e. - thinking everyone is your customer - they're not) looking for a bite and happy to get sunny fish, which will give you a snack, instead of fishing in the holes where the trout are that'll give you a meal... 

Think of it this way... if everyone you contacted would contract with you but only for $.50, would you do it? Hopefully not... that's how you need to approach the number you actually need to be in business long-term... Define what you need to be in business long term, and if that number is $1.00 or $1.20 in your formula, THAT'S the number you won't go below... I'd encourage you to learn it now, while you're starting out... otherwise, a lot of time and money can go out the door until you do...

But if you think about it, you just saw this in your own post... it went from $.70 to $.90... how is it the fiberglass company can get you to pay THEIR increased costs, and you pass it along to the customer, but you balk at getting the same customer to pay YOU enough to support YOUR business?... Everyone else is getting paid, correct? THINK about it...

You've seem to have convinced yourself that PRICE is the defining factor... that is a retail mindset... It doesn't matter your industry, people generally buy based on *Company*, *Product*, *Service *and *Price*... in that order... the more work you do on the first three, the less important the last is...

Why do you think the nationals not only charge TWICE what you're getting but GET TWICE what you're selling? Because it's what they need to be in business and they make more money going after the customers that can support their business... otherwise, if you're MO were a successful MO, why wouldn't they follow your model and get more business by being the 2nd cheapest?... 

The sooner you get out of the mindset that you're "ripping old ladies off" by charging what you NEED to charge to be in business (which, BTW, serves all your customers interests as well), the better off you'll be... 

Consider this... right now, you're the only one not making the money you need in your MO to the point where it supports your business' needs... everyone else is getting paid and you're doing the work and bringing THEM the business... does that sound fair to you?


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

Just so I got this straight. The price should be the variable dependent on what I "need to be in business"?


----------



## Dgr999 (May 13, 2018)

Not fighting ya here, just tell me if I'm on the right track. So let's say I need $200k a year to stay afloat. And I project on getting 50 jobs. I should make the total amount of those jobs equal a minimum of $200k right?


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Dgr999 said:


> Not fighting ya here, just tell me if I'm on the right track. So let's say I need $200k a year to stay afloat. And I project on getting 50 jobs. I should make the total amount of those jobs equal a minimum of $200k right?


If you want to stay afloat... are you in business to stay afloat?


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

It wasn't until I didn't need the work to survive that I actually started making real money. This is also when the lightbulb came on as to why. 


Mike.
_______________


----------



## Bull Trout (Dec 6, 2016)

hdavis said:


> One guy I know joined every single facebook group ..........
> 
> Didn't cost anything but idle time.


and a little piece of his soul


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Bull Trout said:


> and a little piece of his soul


People scrambling can't afford one...


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Said this just last week: "I didn't get into this business to live poor".

First said it 40 some years ago when I decided to change into my home building clothes.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

KAP said:


> But if you think about it, you just saw this in your own post... it went from $.70 to $.90... how is it the fiberglass company can get you to pay THEIR increased costs, and you pass it along to the customer, but you balk at getting the same customer to pay YOU enough to support YOUR business?... Everyone else is getting paid, correct? THINK about it...


...............


----------



## Idothat (May 19, 2018)

This site should charge for for the information here 

It’s that good


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Dgr999 said:


> Not fighting ya here, just tell me if I'm on the right track. So let's say I need $200k a year to stay afloat. And I project on getting 50 jobs. I should make the total amount of those jobs equal a minimum of $200k right?


Believe me, you aren't the only one who has gone down this path. You are one of the lucky ones who is getting this advice early on. 

Most of us, me included have struggled with pricing. And still do. However, as counter intuitive as it sounds and feels, charging more seems to get you more customers. Up to a point of course.

Sure, I could be the guy who does home repairs for 35 dollars an hour. I would be always busy and would probably get by if everything goes smooth. However, for example if it really takes me 50 dollars an hour to keep afloat and get a bit ahead, at a minimum, all I am doing is spinning my wheels at 35.

Now you know it takes 50 to make it, but then charge 65, you now move into a situation where you can breathe a bit and not stress the rain days, or weeks. You are able to take time to figure your next move without being in a panic, and your customers will feel it as well.

This isn't to say that things don't go wrong, jobs don't go sideways and you occasionally end up working for free. But free at the higher rate is easier to survive than free at the lower rate where you were starving anyway.

All prices have been changed to protect the innocent and occasionally dumb.

I've been there. Sitting waiting for the phone to ring. The more you wait, the less it seems to ring. Work begets more work. I think it is just due to the fact you are out in public and making contacts. Even the smallest one can turn into something.

Another thing while I drone on, most weatherization guys around here also do windows and doors. That would be a good way to expand your services and stay in the same general field.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Dgr999 said:


> Not fighting ya here, just tell me if I'm on the right track. So let's say I need $200k a year to stay afloat. And I project on getting 50 jobs. I should make the total amount of those jobs equal a minimum of $200k right?


If you think you need $200k to stay afloat, based on what you've said, you need $240k. 20% after everyone including you have been paid.


----------



## sparehair (Nov 21, 2008)

I started out to be a landscaper. The money sucked and the license was harder to get than a gcs license.

So I started painting. I did a little tile. I ended up doing a hardwood floor refinish. I got a call to refinish 50 apartments. Didnt know how to do it but saying no wasn't an option. Made better money than I ever had in my life. Then I did apartment maintenance and went into a lot of debt because my prices were to low even though revenue seemed high, profit was non existant. This whole time I called myself a painter. 

Tried to market painting for five years. Could never make money at it. Lots of competition. Unpredictable project lengths and outcomes. 

Towards the end I started to invest in flooring equipment and build a marketing program for floors. The phone started to ring. Bought more gear. Phone rang more. I honed my craft and built a reputation. 

You are asking good questions and I can tell you will be successful. You have no excuses and are looking for answers. But the right question is WHETHER this is the best product for me to be selling? Can I achieve my goals selling this product, with this marketing, with these employees, in this location? You have to be adaptable to the market and realize that you are building a set skills that will be useful across different trades. The business side. Selling, marketing, executing, hiring, firing and CASHING CHECKS.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## sparehair (Nov 21, 2008)

hdavis said:


> If you think you need $200k to stay afloat, based on what you've said, you need $240k. 20% after everyone including you have been paid.


Rule of thirds. As a one man show with part time help my sales have varied from 75k to 350k. I pretty much always take home about a third of revenue, of which about a third goes to taxes.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

sparehair said:


> Rule of thirds. As a one man show with part time help my sales have varied from 75k to 350k. I pretty much always take home about a third of revenue, of which about a third goes to taxes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I mentioned "Rule of 3" before. It applies to so many things.


----------

