# What to do with crazy customers?



## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

At least once a year I end up doing work for a crazy customer. Coincidentally, it always happens to be people of a certain ethnic background. I don't know why it is but they always seem to complain a lot of and in the end I end up making nothing. Fuel and time being there for nonsense eat up my profits. 

I put together a gazebo the other day. Customer supplied and I just installed with my laborer. I get a call today and the guy says he is unhappy as I've missed screws. First thing I do is question him and he says yes, and I go where because I've put screws in all the spots that I needed screws. He says when he went to go install his light fixture in the gazebo he seen. I'm not saying it not possible that I missed maybe one or two as we are all human beings and do make error but he claims I've missed 20+ screws. On top of that he claims that he found them at his garage.

The only reason I do think he is saying this is because I was refusing to tap-con his gazebo to the ground. This is a pre-manufactured product and manufacturer states not to fasten to the ground without any other fasteners other then the spikes provided for grass. End of the day I had 4 tap-cons and I put them down 1 at each corner. 

I was able to swing the conversation a different way and level with the guy saying I will swing by and check it out just in case I did miss something. Then he says at the end "ohh and if you can bring a few of those screws and put at least one more at each corner it still wiggles right now". The bloody thing weighs a few hundred pounds there is no way it wiggles the way he claims it does. 

How do you guys deal with these type of customers? What warranties do you guys offer on stuff that people supply? Or better yet what kind of warranty would you offer for this situation?

I feel I'm in a damned if you do damned if you don't type situation as this guy is a good friend of a buddy of mine who does deliveries and gets me a lot of assembly jobs throughout the year, mostly gazebo's in the summer.

I'm not even sure if I should start screening my customer. I don't want to be one of those guys who doesn't work for certain type of people. It just seems these people are all like that. I'm not saying others aren't like that but in my experience it always seem to be them.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

You can only let them have 1 callback. During that callback let them know that is there only chance to complain and you will fix everything. And after that it will cost them for you to return.

If you don't communicate this you will be stuck in the "while your here..." loop.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

Driftweed said:


> You can only let them have 1 callback. During that callback let them know that is there only chance to complain and you will fix everything. And after that it will cost them for you to return.
> 
> If you don't communicate this you will be stuck in the "while your here..." loop.


This is a very good idea, I should start enforcing this. I thought about this last summer when I ended up in a similar predicament with an awning. However, I haven't done any awnings since.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

What puzzles me is how he came up with 20 missing screws. Since most of the screws are hidden, unless he started to take some of it apart and he lost a few. So he adding up the ones he lost plus the 12 more tap-con's he wants. 

Another question: Should I charge him for the additional tap-con's?

To be honest I have the tap-con's already paid for from another job, I have about 100 screws so using a few won't make me broke lol. I was thinking maybe to make up for the time?


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

You're lucky you only have one crazy customer a year. I got you WAY beat on that one :laughing:


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> You're lucky you only have one crazy customer a year. I got you WAY beat on that one :laughing:


I'd love to compare and contrast with your crazies. 

I have my normal crazies, which I can handle. The one's who don't make me not sleep at night. I got one guy who is a regular drunk and we clash all the time. 

Then I have these crazies that drive me nuts and end up making lose all the money I made from them in fuel.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Most of the customers who buy stuff like that and ask me to install it I tell them to go back to the big box store and get the experts there to install it. That's why these places have contractors. These products are never built right, always have bits missing and poor instruction, always damaged and always attract call backs. They just aint worth it.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

finish as fast as possible and get the hell outta there.. if its just a quote.. quote really really high


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

BCConstruction said:


> Most of the customers who buy stuff like that and ask me to install it I tell them to go back to the big box store and get the experts there to install it. That's why these places have contractors. These products are never built right, always have bits missing and poor instruction, always damaged and always attract call backs. They just aint worth it.


That's where I've messed up. I'm the contractor that one of the box store location (franchise) uses to set up their display models. So they refer me to customers when they ask for assembly. That's also where I met the guy who does deliveries. Then he started referring me when people would ask him for installs.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

woodworkbykirk said:


> finish as fast as possible and get the hell outta there.. if its just a quote.. quote really really high


He wants me to resolve the issue buy installing the so called missing screws and add more tap-cons at least one more per post.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Just gulp it up and start enforcing your new policy. Be the good, but not a sucker.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

What do I do if I leave and they are happy and then they call me again in a couple days saying same thing? I tell them its say 50 dollars (for example) for the return trip and they say well you didn't correct it last time and refuse to pay?

Tell them to suck a lemon and find someone else?


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

If it voids the manufacturers warranty to fasten it to the ground using anything but the included spikes, it sounds like you have two options. 
1) do it how he wants, but get a signed waiver to release you of any warranty issues that may arise in the future. 
2) flat out refuse to fasten it any way not recommended by the manufacturer. If he wants it done that way, he can do it himself - again releasing you from liability. 
If he's anything like the crazies we've all encountered, he'll sucker you into doing it his way and then it'll come back on you when something fails or goes wrong.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

schaefercs said:


> If it voids the manufacturers warranty to fasten it to the ground using anything but the included spikes, it sounds like you have two options.
> 1) do it how he wants, but get a signed waiver to release you of any warranty issues that may arise in the future.
> 2) flat out refuse to fasten it any way not recommended by the manufacturer. If he wants it done that way, he can do it himself - again releasing you from liability.
> If he's anything like the crazies we've all encountered, he'll sucker you into doing it his way and then it'll come back on you when something fails or goes wrong.


The first thing I explained to him when he mentioned screwing it to the ground was the manufacturer states it is not to be permanently fasten to the ground and is for decoration and sun-shade purposes only. Its not meant to withstand the elements, highwinds/snowfall/severe rain. I showed him the manufacture book. His response: I still think you need to put a few down to hold it. 

I'm going to get a signed waiver, as yes it will void any warranty against the unit if it's found that it was bolted to the ground.

I'm really scared it going to come back and haunt me soon. Like I can guarantee that by Friday there is going to be another problem that he is going to want to me to go back and solve. 

It just sucks because I'm starting a basement tomorrow and I don't want to go there and spend half a day f-ing around with that gazebo.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

That is correct.

Ever order cable t.v.? See how the tech has you sign papers?

Same thing here. Have them sign some form of receipt that states customer is satisfied.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

Driftweed said:


> That is correct.
> 
> Ever order cable t.v.? See how the tech has you sign papers?
> 
> Same thing here. Have them sign some form of receipt that states customer is satisfied.


I'm going to look into it. Get something with duplicate papers. Those white-yellow or white-pink papers that show the imprint from one to the other.

Then if it comes back to haunt me I can say well you signed saying you are satisfied. 

I wonder if the print shop can do them


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

We are pretty lucky, most of clients seem to trust us. 

I did have one last year that was a nightmare. It was in the middle of nowhere, built a shop, sidewalk, replaced all the windows and trim in the house, new floors, granite in both bathrooms and kitchen, new appliances, new exterior doors. 

When we first went on the initial sales call (my dad and I both went as we didnt know who would be running the job and neither wanted to make an 45 miniute trip one way to re establish the scope if it changed hands before the sale. I knew I was going to do it because the old man usually runs stuff close to his house. 

He had a bad feeling right away. Dude isnt going to want to pay, dont waste much time. I disagreed. Just a working guy who wanted quality work done. 

Jobs started as only trim and paint, some drywall and counter tops. I told him in my initial scope we needed to get some PODS and move his furniture out, to much drywall and painting to leave it. He said he didnt want to do this, cant we just cover it. I told him for a whole house, this is not how I operate. Either the job will be done in stages, and we will move furniture to the other parts of the house. But either way you go, about the same price. The guy already said he was staying in his rv because of dust. He also added four windows tlin his office. 

He hem hawwed and said he was told we were used to working with polish in occupied homes, I trust you will take care of my stuff . Played my ego. I said ok. 

Long, long story short, he added the shop, sidewalk and floors as well as the rest of the windows. because he got a big commision. By that point we are already very much involved with the furniture covered. I made mistake #2 by not going ahead and moving it out . No furniture was damaged but I didnt add enough funds to cover moving it so many times and putting the plastic back. No matter what I did the furniture got dusty as hell. 

My painter also covered his deep freeze with plastic while it was running, and it went out. All his food went bad. I cleaned it out and said give me a bill for the food. He agreed. 

Because I actually trimmed it, I did a bunch of extras for materials because I wanted it to look right, and the stuff he didnt want to replace looked awful. Ego again, didnt want my name on it. 

He also got the windows installed basicly at cost because I was an idiot and did the first four pretty cheap because it was an add on to the scope and I wanted the job, take a day for one guy to knock those out. I couldnt very well raise my price to normal pricing after that for the rest.

AND I didnt mark up the appliances to get him to use my appliance vendor, which makes my job easier.

End of the job, he hands me bill for $325 for about $50 of food from his freezer, and brings up a miring in the finish of a tv in his office which he believes was my cleaning ladys solution. I said how about I reduce the bill by $500. He said cool. No way it was my cleaning lady, she doesnt use solvents on furniture. Her bill was also double normal for the job because of dust. 

So, a WHOLE BUNCH of rookie mistakes from methods to bidding, and totally mis read the guy.

Then he reffered us to two jobs, one which we got. He also said he wanted me to reside his house. I said sure. 

You can bet Im adding $450 to that bid, if I bid it.


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

So far I have only had one that really gave me issues. It was a bathroom remodel and she picked everything out with me and then went on vacation. When she returned she said everything was great except that the fiberglass tub and surround we installed was not white but biscuit. A) she bought it at HD and had it delivered to site. B) it was white. Long story short I had to have Home Depot come out to site and tell her that it is the white model she ordered. Then, she cut me a check but was still not entirely happy.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

The scariest nightmares are often cloaked in wet dreams..


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Crazy customers? Do what you have to to finish their job and then RUN! The best advice is to never take the job in the first place. But sometimes the crazy doesn't come out until you're in too deep.

I just recently had one. 4 month project. 3 1/4 months all was great. 3 weeks of insanity. I finished everything I was contracted to do and did so with self respect, even through all the BS.

That client recently emailed me asking me to quote additional work for them. :no:


Regarding the OP's client. The advice about charging for BS warranty work is legit. I've got it in my contract. Paraphrased, it says I'll come out to check out a warranty claim, if it's BS, I reserve the right to bill for my trip. Also, for me to come out a second time costs a trip charge when the initial claim was BS.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

I understand. I'm the same way. And I've been there with similar clients who I've let ruin too many weeks of my life. I've had to learn that some people are just plain crazy. And that it is no reflection on me or my work.

Just try and focus on the bigger picture. Let's look at your current situation. You were hired to build a gazebo, which you built, according to the manufacturers specs. You're proud of your work and you know that you did what you were supposed to. Now your client complains about some details that are not part of your scope (i.e. not part of the manufacturer's install instructions).

How is that a reflection on you or on your work? Simple answer, it's not. You did what you were supposed to. Dude needs something to nitpick about, and a person like that WILL find something to nitpick. So you've done nothing worth worrying over. Now it's time to let it roll off your back. :thumbsup: :drink:


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

JR Shepstone said:


> Did it ever occur to him that maybe there were "extras"? As in whoever packed the bag on a Friday just threw in two handfuls to be safe and headed out to happy hour?
> 
> I don't think I've ever assembled something and not come away with pocket parts.
> 
> :thumbup:


I've done enough of this model gazebo, this would be the third year doing this model, to know if there are extra screws. They come like in a vacuum seal package, 3 kits. It could be possible that they have started to provide extra screws are some RTA furniture come with 1 or 2 extra hardware pieces. However, when I was done I had none left over. I was even using my own washer because they give crap washers that have 2-3 stuck together.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

RemodelGA said:


> I understand. I'm the same way. And I've been there with similar clients who I've let ruin too many weeks of my life. I've had to learn that some people are just plain crazy. And that it is no reflection on me or my work.
> 
> Just try and focus on the bigger picture. Let's look at your current situation. You were hired to build a gazebo, which you built, according to the manufacturers specs. You're proud of your work and you know that you did what you were supposed to. Now your client complains about some details that are not part of your scope (i.e. not part of the manufacturer's install instructions).
> 
> How is that a reflection on you or on your work? Simple answer, it's not. You did what you were supposed to. Dude needs something to nitpick about, and a person like that WILL find something to nitpick. So you've done nothing worth worrying over. Now it's time to let it roll off your back. :thumbsup: :drink:



I like your answer dude! It's straight up honest and the truth! Thx


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

workingintx said:


> I WAS JUST thinking about this topic today. Great timing.
> 
> We were refinishing an entryway (door, 2 sidelights, and transom) for this customer. I get there at 7am as agreed and the guy slams open the door and tells me to get started. I politely tell him that I needed to go over paperwork with him before I start. He says "whatever" and we proceed. As part of the paperwork process I let him know of possible results once we leave at the end of the day. One possible result was that while the doorway would look great, if he touches the wood, it may feel rough after a day or two as it dries. I told him that this was due to the 100% humidity in the air and the fact that the wood would soak up the water in the air as we removed the existing stain and finish. We would cover it in warranty if the roughness bothered him.
> 
> ...


Wow, good for you for not cold cocking him. Especially after he charged across his lawn and came at you. This might be the craziest HO story I've heard.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

renov8r said:


> At least once a year I end up doing work for a crazy customer. Coincidentally, it always happens to be people of a certain ethnic background. I don't know why it is but they always seem to complain a lot of and in the end I end up making nothing. Fuel and time being there for nonsense eat up my profits.
> 
> I put together a gazebo the other day. Customer supplied and I just installed with my laborer. I get a call today and the guy says he is unhappy as I've missed screws. First thing I do is question him and he says yes, and I go where because I've put screws in all the spots that I needed screws. He says when he went to go install his light fixture in the gazebo he seen. I'm not saying it not possible that I missed maybe one or two as we are all human beings and do make error but he claims I've missed 20+ screws. On top of that he claims that he found them at his garage.
> 
> ...


I would let him know that you will come look at the missing screws. If you actually missed something you will fix it for free. If he is mistaken and wasting your time you will have to charge him for the trip. Twice your hourly rate seems appropriate. 

Let him know you do not wish to attach the structure to the ground as he is requesting. Let him know it is an administrative headache because of the paper work you will be having to produce for him to sign that states he is assuming responsibility. Because of the work and paper work you will have to charge him a large amount. 3.25 times your hourly rates sound about right. Be kind, helpful and professional but make the experience profitable for yourself. Have him pay you in advance if he wants to move forward with the addition fasteners on the corner. 

Don't be afraid to be the guy that turns customers away that seem like a headache. If you value your time you have to avoid these people. If you work for them it needs to be T&M I bid almost all of my jobs. I have three customers that I will only work for on a time and material bases. I track my time talking to them, planning the project, driving, shopping, and every thing else associated with the job. If I wake up at 2:00 am and cant sleep for a half an hour because they are stressing me out they will see a charge on the bill for lost sleep (I made this part up). These customers have nothing but terrible stories form previous encounters hiring people because every one ends up frustrated with them. They never complain about price and are happy I take the time to work with them.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

probationa = professional


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

So fella's I went to the guys house this morning and he takes his ladder and goes up and shows me where he wants me to look at. I go up on the ladder and look at it and he I see which holes and I proceed to tell him screws don't belong there and that they are most likely hanging holes from when they paint them at the factory. I cannot and will not put any form of screw in those hole as they are such an angle that they will just rust and water will for sure be able to get through and rust the whole frame. He asks me if he could zip-tie them and I says to him sure he do that. He was hoping I had some ties in the van, but when he asked me if I had any I just lied to him I said "I'm not an electrician nor a tele-communication contractor so I do not keep any of those things In the van as I have no use for them". He told me he will do it and then he's like can you put at least one more screw down to the pillar. Again I told him I'm not supposed to but I will do it is against manufacture specification, he then tells me how his old gazebo lasted 12 years bolted to the ground. Bolted my bum, it was held down by 8 screws (#8 x 1"). I made him sign a waiver saying I do not take any liability for any future damages that may arise due to it being bolted down. 

After everything was done I got a good handshake, and a nice thank you and telling me he has some small jobs he wants to call me for.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

renov8r said:


> After everything was done I got a good handshake, and a nice thank you and telling me he has some small jobs he wants to call me for.



:laughing::no::jester::blink:


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Well played my man, well played.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I had a client that was a diabetic with low blood sugar. 

Electrician was contracted to trench the cable wire to the mechanical room. Cable company arrives right after they move in and can't find the wire. I get a phone call and tell them where the wire run as best that I can remember but call the electrician because it was in his contract not mine.

Electrician says it was my responsibility not his...so the HO calls me back and I say I'll swing by later that day. I get there...no wire to be seen...homeowner freaks out on me, yelling that I've screwed him and everyone is bleeding him dry, get the fvck out etc...he was frothing at the mouth and wouldn't stop yelling nonsense. His wife is physically holding him back begging him to calm down.

After his wife gets him to leave the room and relax the cable guy arrives. We find the wire outside but not inside. I cut a hole in the drywall in the basement and I find the cable wire the electrician had run. Low and behold it's a single sheild copper RG59...no damn good. I tell the homeowner if I had run the wire a) I would charge for it and b) it would have been the correct wire.

Long story short the cable guy and I ran a new wire, trenched it and I got an apology from the HO. Never heard back from the electrician...but they have a lousy enough reputation here anyway. :laughing:


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

Driftweed said:


> Well played my man, well played.


Thanks dude!

I just hope he never ever calls again, not even for something small. Well a big thing maybe I'll make an exception. 9/10 the people I put gazebo's together for never call back for anything else. I always leave a few cards behind just in case, even though I know majority of them go to the trash. However, a few jobs have come from putting up gazebo's and awnings.


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

Do any of you charge the 20% azzhole tax? You can put up more if you get enough money. I had a job a couple of years ago that I made an adjustment on the azzhole tax, I bumped it to 30%. And that was barely enough.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

fireguy said:


> Do any of you charge the 20% azzhole tax? You can put up more if you get enough money. I had a job a couple of years ago that I made an adjustment on the azzhole tax, I bumped it to 30%. And that was barely enough.


I call it the PITA factor & it included in the bid...:thumbsup:


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## bob hutson (Mar 16, 2013)

dont let the $ of a big job suck u back in they
are just bigger pains from the same idiot..


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