# Help me with a photo? I need FLAT roof hail damage photo.



## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Anyone got a photo of hail damage on any flat roofing membranes? I am writing an article to give to my customers explaining what hail damage is, how to inspect for it, how it affects the roof and how to protect themselves against the storm chasers.

However I have no photos of hail damage on flat roofs. Anyone got any?


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## contractorjay (Dec 22, 2009)

why are you writing an article for your homeowner? if he isnt your customer, dont bother giving a free survey. number one rule in sales.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

One of the links from reports done by Haag Engineering has photos of flat roof damage, but my Favorites Folders contain over 4,000 links so it might be next to impossible for me to find easily for you.

I'll try for you though.

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

contractorjay said:


> why are you writing an article for your homeowner? if he isnt your customer, dont bother giving a free survey. number one rule in sales.


In this case when I wrote the article, it was for a previous customer. I was writing him a letter so he could better understand how the hail may have affected his property. I then reforamatted that letter into an informative article to distribute to the public. Writing the article will accomplish multiple things, including bringing in leads since it will be propogated with the various search engines. In addition It will educate the general public, and an educated consumer is my best customer. 

Here is the article... I need to add photos. I have some I pan to resize and add today, however I still need flat roof photos... http://reliableamerican.us/articles/roof-hail-damage.html 




Ed I can't use anything that is copywritten unfortunately. I could easily steal a photo from the internet, but after having multiple people stealing my photos, logos, web page layouts etc.. I know how it feels.


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## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

Very well written article! Wish I could help with the pictures.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Great article Grumpy.

If you dont mind, I think I would change the first line where you say beware of Storm Chasers. Not everyone will know what a Storm Chaser is. Perhaps a change to describe it, maybe something like be aware of companies who come in right after a storm otherwise known as Storm Chasers.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I may have some pics of hail damage to flat roofing. More than likely it would be granulated roll if it makes any difference.


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## 232323 (Mar 31, 2008)

Very well done, Grumpy. This belongs in a full-page ad in every local newspaper that is hit by a damaging hail storm. It's now on my favorites list. We have all seen what damage the storm chasers can do in a short period of time.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

dougger222 said:


> I may have some pics of hail damage to flat roofing. More than likely it would be granulated roll if it makes any difference.


Dougger, that'd be perfectly fine. Thanks much.


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

Grumpy is good at that stuff. Grumps, if ya ever feel a desire to move to N. Idaho....I HATE dealing with customers!


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Renegade LOL, who knows what the future holds.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Grumpy, that's a very nice and well written insurance process. Out of curiosity do you recomend meeting with adjusters or do you like when they inspect and the home owner hands over the adjusters estimate?

BTW, I'll dig through my hundreds of pics of hail damage to find some of flat roofing. Also would you want some pics of the 5/25/08 Lino Lakes hail damage? This is the most damage I've ever seen in person of hail damage.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Yeh any pics would be nice. What I have is very basic. I'll PM you my email address.


My PERSONAL prefrence is to not meet the adjusters. I don't want to get into an argument and push someone off a roof. Since you don't have to accept their first offer I personally prefer to review their notes and find their mistakes. Normally what I do is meet the customer without the adjuster. We discuss what the customer wants. Forget like repalcement. However I do explain to the customer that what we are discussing is an upgrade and the insurance company is only going to pay for like replacement. At that time I factor my proposal for what we discussed. I give them the same price I would if they pay or the insurance pays. It doesn't matter to me, I know what I need to make money on any given job.

At that time if the customer decides they want to hire me to do the job, I will take off my roofers hat and put on my adjusters hat. I will then review the adjuster's notes, measurements, and line items they may have missed. Seeing enough of these now since 2001, I have gotten pretty good at knowing the line item names without having xactimate. Sure I might be missing some lines I have never seen before but so what. I'll give the customer a call back, let them know how much additional I think I can get them. I won't tell them specifics but will hint at a few things. I'll tell them if they want I can argue with their adjuster for them, they usually agree, I tell them to call the adjuster and ask the adjuster to contact me. I also tell them that I'll get them this extra money for free, but that I will need a commitment since the conversation and documentation necessary to get the extra funds from the insurance company may take many hours to prepare. If they are serious about hiring me, they will sign my contract. If not serious then they whine and cry and we can go our seperate ways. Sure I'd save some time if I got a contingency agreement signed up front, but that's not how I roll. I aint' sleezy.

I am by no means an expert at this. I just do what works for me, and what works for me is not usually the main stream way of doing things. So far the adjusters haven't been too argumentitive so I must be doing something wrong  LOL but I have gotten a few customers no less than $1,000 more than the original insurance estimate. One other thing I should point out. I expect to get paid direct from the customer when the job is done. No waiting 90 days, and I explain that to the customer as well that if they can't afford to pay me they better tell me now so we can work out some kind of payment plan because I'll be pissed if we finish the job and I can't pay my guys.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I was discussing a job with one adjuster and he said he didn't want to discuss line items. I asked why not, since he missed a few line items. He started to point out a few things that he felt he was being generous by paying for. I explained that I too didn't want to discuss line items but I could not do the job for what he was offering and that we needed to get to a cetain dollar ammount and that I didn't care what the line items were. 

As it turns out he forgot the dumpster, and since he didn't understand the code was short of the ice shield and vents. In addition he excluded the permit. His argument was that he was heavy on the siding and did not take out for the openings (windows). I explained to him that I already did the math both ways and that if he did want to take out the openings, he would then need to add 10% waste and that he'd actually have to pay more. I also explained that I had no problem with anything he had quoted on the siding. When I said this he simply gave in, no longer wanting to argue. He paid me for a 30 yard dumpster even though I only need a 10. However the extra 20 yards will offset my labor costs that he said were too high. He also paid for the additional ice shield and vents.


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

A few examples


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

A few more


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

And a few more


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

I can go all day.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Wow those are perfect. I have never seen a flat roof so badly beat up by hail, then again I don't live in TX. Thanks!


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> Wow those are perfect. I have never seen a flat roof so badly beat up by hail, then again I don't live in TX. Thanks!


These are OKC 5/16/10. 2 3/4" to 3" hail and the widest swath of large core hail I have ever seen in my years. I just dug through a few recent files to grab these. If I can get the time, I will try to put together an album or portfolio of good strikes on various roofing surfaces. The gravel pic is after I swept back the blow out I noted to show the bruise. If you can get to the roof before subsequent rains it will look like a herd of horses has run across the roof. These areas are hail divots. Take a whisk broom and brush back several. On large hail, you will see similar to the pic. You may even see fresh asphalt turned up in the divot prior to sweeping that the stone dislodged and 'blew out'. If the hail is smaller, you will want to look for fractured imbedded aggregate or driven aggregate that may have been driven into the asphalt or innerply. Lastly, a good strike can be sampled 12"x12" min., frozen, and disected through the strike. Upon extreme magnification you will see the fractures in the innerply asphalt thus disrupting it's ability to shed water. These fractures will wick moisture, trap it, and will expand as that moisture freezes and opens the fissures up more and more over subsequent freeze-thaw cycles. I love gravel roofs because they are denied 90% of the time and by the time I show up the client has nothing to lose and I can ensure they will assign me the project in writing. They are always a long fight but they usually have no competition from my peers. Catch 22.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Abc


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

say whaaaat?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

3 year old thread


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

I was sleep texting... that's my story. 

How the hell did it pop up as a new msg on my ph... I'm just going to erase it before anyone else sees it.

Come on guys.. cover me. We will pretend it never happened.


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## Sabagley (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm going to tell everyone


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

It sure is nice to see Grumpy again---


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

mikeswoods said:


> It sure is nice to see Grumpy again---


Grumpy is entirely out of the business now.


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## LeeFowler (Nov 3, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Grumpy is entirely out of the business now.


Is he doing something else these days?


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

He is presumed to be living a happy life so I hear..


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## 1985gt (Dec 10, 2010)

From what he said, yes. Done roofing and moving on to a more enjoyable business venture. If he puts half of the effort he did in to roofing he will do very well. Miss the guy though.


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## LeeFowler (Nov 3, 2012)

Well good for him. I read these forums long before I ever joined and he was one of my favorite posters.


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## 1985gt (Dec 10, 2010)

Yeah I got to know him a bit over a couple of years. Good guy for sure. The roofing industry is a tough nut crack, glad he got out.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

1985gt said:


> Yeah I got to know him a bit over a couple of years. Good guy for sure. The roofing industry is a tough nut crack, glad he got out.


At least one of us is smart enough!


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