# Side vs Back Connection



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> ............Most of the suburbs also write NM out of the NEC. I can't think of one that allows it.........


I am of the opinion that AHJs that just write something out of the NEC should submit a proposal to the NFPA explaining why they believe it to be unsafe.

Or is there something about the Chicago area that makes NM unsafe? Like corrosive properties of the air? Or their gun laws?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

480sparky said:


> I am of the opinion that AHJs that just write something out of the NEC should submit a proposal to the NFPA explaining why they believe it to be unsafe.
> 
> Or is there something about the Chicago area that makes NM unsafe? Like corrosive properties of the air? Or their gun laws?


Probably the gun laws, can't shoot the rats.

Indiana wrote out AFI's for a few cycles. Other things they write out/alter are primarily administrative. 

Tom


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Irishslave said:


> Seems a straight stripped wire whether backstabbed or clamped seems better than looped around a screw.....I was always taught "bends" in the wire create heat.


Whoever taught you that is more than likely an idiot.

I've replaced dozens and dozens of burnt, yes burnt, receptacles, solely because they were back-stabbed. It was a chitty connection to begin with, and over time, temperature variation makes them work loose, they heat up even more, and they fail.

Just replaced about 8 of them last week in a commercial building, because they were failing. When I removed them, one completely disintegrated in my hand, because it was so charred. 


Delta


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Whoever taught you that is more than likely an idiot.
> 
> I've replaced dozens and dozens of burnt, yes burnt, receptacles, solely because they were back-stabbed. It was a chitty connection to begin with, and over time, temperature variation makes them work loose, they heat up even more, and they fail.
> 
> ...


I've seen more burnt up wire nuts, it's not the design of the termination it's fools that don't use them properly.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> I've seen more burnt up wire nuts, it's not the design of the termination it's fools that don't use them properly.




What is the proper way to use a wire nut then?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Morning Wood said:


> What is the proper way to use a wire nut then?


Instructions are included.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Morning Wood said:


> What is the proper way to use a wire nut then?


Around here everyone uses the Ideal CanTwist, greatest wire nut to ever grace god's green earth. They will do everything from 2x #22 to #8 and #10. But you routinely see 5 or 6 #14 under one nut, which it wil hold, just not well, and you can't get a good twist on a bunch that big. Or you have a nic on a wire, you nut it up, cram it in a box tighter that a nun's snatch and get a compromised connection.

But where I see it the most is with stranded to solid wire connections. Either they were not lined up square when the nut was twisted on and the stranded part bird cages and is barely holding on by a thread, or they over twist the nut and cleave the strands of the wire causing a weak connection.

Where I really see em smoked are with high voltage electric thermostats, like those for baseboards where a substantial amount of amperage passes through the crummy wire nut connection causing it to overheat.

All in all push connectors and wire nuts are really not great conections, but they are perfectly safe if they are done right. There are just too many handymen ringing wires when they strip them, over twisting wire nuts, stripping wires too short/long for push connectors, overtorquing barrier strips, using incorrect stakon connectors, sh!tty crimpers etc. etc.


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## Mr_Stop (Aug 15, 2016)

Here's some video's from Ideal:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/48jZSagzZo0

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZbOn50yFl3o

https://www.youtube.com/embed/U6XtsamEZ2c


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## Mike-B (Feb 11, 2015)

Naming conventions differ but from my supplier I can specify back wire receptacles. Back wire is not back stab. Back wire is push the wire in the back and it is retained by a side plate. 

They are more expensive than a regular receptacle with back stab and side screws. 99% of our wiring is stranded THHN. It's a bit quicker to back wire a ton of receptacles than have to crimp staycons on them all. Not sure if it's cheaper in the end but it's my preferred method.

With solid wire I'm fine with using the cheap receptacles but side wire only. 

I'm not a back stabber. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Mike-B said:


> Naming conventions differ but from my supplier I can specify back wire receptacles. Back wire is not back stab. Back wire is push the wire in the back and it is retained by a side plate.
> 
> They are more expensive than a regular receptacle with back stab and side screws. 99% of our wiring is stranded THHN. It's a bit quicker to back wire a ton of receptacles than have to crimp staycons on them all. Not sure if it's cheaper in the end but it's my preferred method.
> 
> ...


Why do you crimp connectors onto the stranded wire?

Tom


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## Mike-B (Feb 11, 2015)

tjbnwi said:


> Why do you crimp connectors onto the stranded wire?
> 
> Tom


On a regular receptacle your option is back stab or wrap. Don't like to back stab any wire. Don't like to wrap stranded wire. So we either crimp yellow staycons forks on and terminate to the side screws or buy the more expensive back wire receptacle with the side plates.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Mike-B said:


> On a regular receptacle your option is back stab or wrap. Don't like to back stab any wire. Don't like to wrap stranded wire. So we either crimp yellow staycons forks on and terminate to the side screws or buy the more expensive back wire receptacle with the side plates.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


If the device wont accept back load, I start strip of the insulation about 1.5 inches from the end of the wire, expose 3/4" of conductor leaving the insulation on the conductor. Wrap the expose area around the screw and tighten, leaving the insulation as a tail. 

Tom


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> If the device wont accept back load, I start strip of the insulation about 1.5 inches from the end of the wire, expose 3/4" of conductor leaving the insulation on the conductor. Wrap the expose area around the screw and tighten, leaving the insulation as a tail.
> 
> Tom


Same here. 

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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

overanalyze said:


> same here.
> 
> Sent from my sm-t310 using tapatalk


+1 .


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## Mike-B (Feb 11, 2015)

tjbnwi said:


> If the device wont accept back load, I start strip of the insulation about 1.5 inches from the end of the wire, expose 3/4" of conductor leaving the insulation on the conductor. Wrap the expose area around the screw and tighten, leaving the insulation as a tail.
> 
> Tom


Understood. We've done it in a pinch and it works just fine. Just not our SOP.

We have a lot of inefficient methods. I still have guys lacing with wax string. We are in the cellular communications field.

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> If the device wont accept back load, I start strip of the insulation about 1.5 inches from the end of the wire, expose 3/4" of conductor leaving the insulation on the conductor. Wrap the expose area around the screw and tighten, leaving the insulation as a tail.
> 
> Tom


That doesn't fly with me, stranded wire gets a ferrule or a stakon.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Side wrap was all we had in the military in the 70s so it was how I learned. But the back wire/side screw method is much quicker to connect and disconnect and looks to be just as positive a connection so it's no contest for me.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Morning Wood said:


> What is the proper way to use a wire nut then?


#1 Strip wires 1 and 1/2" 

#2 twist wires together with pliers 

#3 trim wires for depth of wire nut 

#4 twist on wire nut


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Whoever taught you that is more than likely an idiot.
> 
> I've replaced dozens and dozens of burnt, yes burnt, receptacles, solely because they were back-stabbed. It was a chitty connection to begin with, and over time, temperature variation makes them work loose, they heat up even more, and they fail.
> 
> ...


That was my off handed way of getting a professional response. Truth be told I've never backstabbed. I've always thought it was "cheating"


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