# "Generally trusted" Tool brand? or thoughts on DeWalt...



## Lizzie (Mar 6, 2011)

Is there any brand of tool that is generally trusted for durability at a reasonable cost for commercial use? I have been using DeWalt but a few of the tools I have from them have either been not performing up to par or have broken while the crew is using them. I don't really think they are being abused, but I am wondering if I should switch over or look at some other brand. Most recently one of my 18v cordless drills broke while the guys were removing some sheet metal, I don't think it is a year old yet. It ticks me off to buy a tool that does not work, but now in reverse mode the drill will release the bit under pressure. Is this just a piece of junk or is this a user fault? I have not really used other brands too much except for Bosch which I generally haven't had problems with, so if anyone has any good reviews for other brands I'd love to hear them.

I deal mostly with concrete and demo work, and then a little bit of various trades (roofing, plumbing, additions/remodel). I take good care of my tools but I need something that can handle the job...


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## goneelkn (Jan 9, 2010)

Just do a search, and read the arguements. Everyone has their own thoughts on whats best. I dropped Dewalt a few years ago having the same problems as you.
I went to Makita and very happy with them.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

You will find plenty of posts about dewalt problems. I wouldn't touch their cordless range at all anymore. They are targeted towards HO's now more than ever. They are always slow to release new tech onto the range and quality is getting worse each year. 

Stick to bosch, makita or pannasonic. I would go with makita as they have a massive range of tools that work with the LXT batts, advanced batt tech, plus when you got a few batts, body only prices most of there tools are cheaper than buying body only ryobi tools.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Demo and concrete I think you would be looking at hilti


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

I second that Kent.:thumbsup: IMO Hilti is one of the tougher commercial geared tools. They have a fleet management service. Alot Of the large commercial companys use it around by me. 

Here the link check out.

http://www.hilti.com/holcom/page/module/home/browse_main.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-8725


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Is there any brand of tool that is generally trusted for durability at a reasonable cost for commercial use?


No company makes the best of everything, it really depends what you are looking for.



> Most recently one of my 18v cordless drills broke while the guys were removing some sheet metal, I don't think it is a year old yet. It ticks me off to buy a tool that does not work, but now in reverse mode the drill will release the bit under pressure.


Sounds like a bad chuck, if its under a year take it in for warranty. No tools are guaranteed not to break. 



> I second that Kent. IMO Hilti is one of the tougher commercial geared tools. They have a fleet management service. Alot Of the large commercial companys use it around by me.


I love their hammer drills and guns but I'm not sold on the cordless tools.

"Fleet Management" is a lease program but they pay for all repairs and replace your tools with new ones every year. If you have an abusive crew its a fantastic idea from both a taxation standpoint and a productivity standpoint. For me personally its not worth it to pay 30 bucks a month to lease my cordless drill set.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

For the price of 30$ a month your better off just buying a new set every year! The fleet managment only really pays off if your have a couple hundred tools out in the field...


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> For the price of 30$ a month your better off just buying a new set every year!


Not really, when a cordless drill driver set is 550 new...and you are paying per month and writing off the entire amount...as opposed to laying down 550 then depreciating it for the life of the tool. 

Why do you think the government leases so many buildings?


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## DuFast (Dec 15, 2010)

I got the new milwaukee m18 line and love it and have zero complaints.


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## Mike- (Aug 20, 2011)

Bosch for me!!!


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

Here we go again.

I feel you need to shop around for any particular tool to find the one that works best for you. All tools have their strengths and weaknesses.

As far as DeWalt goes I have stated before that I never have had the problems with my DeWalt tools that others on this forum have had. I have many DeWalt tools and they are all great workhorses for me. When purchasing a new tool I always consider them in the line up.

As mentioned do a search and you will find tons of arguments on both sides of the subject.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

CrpntrFrk said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> I feel you need to shop around for any particular tool to find the one that works best for you. All tools have their strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> ...


The issue is its more negative than positive for dewalt. their cordless tools are exspensive for what they offer. i can count on one hand the people i have heard say good things about dewalt in the last 8-10 years. yet i have lost count of the amount of people not happy with them. even the dewalt rep said their cordless range is not targeting contractors as much as they used to. the moneys in HO's buying the tools. They let people down with the XRP sets and then the nano tech sets. Now they have finally got a set with specs like the others had 6-7 years ago.


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## Mike- (Aug 20, 2011)

I will go and say the DW24000s tile saw sure is highly praised. For what is worth, dewalt batteries are now that of Makita according to the Dewalt rep. It took a few years to get back where everyone has been for a few years. 

If you were to take a poll on this forum and ask what are the choice go to tools- chances are pretty high that Dewalt will be near the bottom. They R not what they used to be.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mike- said:


> I will go and say the DW24000s tile saw sure is highly praised. For what is worth, dewalt batteries are now that of Makita according to the Dewalt rep. It took a few years to get back where everyone has been for a few years.
> 
> If you were to take a poll on this forum and ask what are the choice go to tools- chances are pretty high that Dewalt will be near the bottom. They R not what they used to be.


Thats what i find crazy. i love the tile saw, thickness planner, angle drill, belt sander, tile lazer but the cordless tools just aint ever impressed me. when ever im in lowes the only people i see looking at them are HO's they are drawn over to them because of the color and then they leave with a 5pc set! i think they think because they have the biggest display and have seen contractors like Mike Holmes use them they think they are the tools to have! :blink:


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## Mike- (Aug 20, 2011)

BCConstruction said:


> Thats what i find crazy. i love the tile saw, thickness planner, angle drill, belt sander, tile lazer but the cordless tools just aint ever impressed me. when ever im in lowes the only people i see looking at them are HO's they are drawn over to them because of the color and then they leave with a 5pc set! i think they think because they have the biggest display and have seen contractors like Mike Holmes use them they think they are the tools to have! :blink:


Haha. That is so true. " well if Mike Holmes and Brian Bauemler use them, they must be top of the line" !!

For any Dewalt fans out there- don't get me wrong. They do make some pretty good corded tools but cordless not so good. 

Dewalt trends. Good cordless and now not so good
There scms used to be excellent and now not so much. 

From contractor approved now to DIY/Ho approved.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

bosch, makita and older style hitachi hands down. i am slowly switching all my tools to bosch. ive only had a couple very very minor issues with my bosch gear and they stepped up and took care of me no charge and then some. 

dewalt and milwaukee are almost on the same par nowadays... i owned the newer milwauk compact drill and it was a lemon 3 months after i bought it i was having a several problems with it.. they wouldnt do anything for me either.. on top of that ive used a few of hte same drill elsewhere had the same problems with them such as the clutch wearing out very on in the tools life

as for hilti, its definitiely built to last. my only 2 complaints about hilti are 1) the price, 2) the magazine style p.a.t's they always misfire, ive used several of hte magazine style p.a.t's and they all had issues with misfiring... sent them in to get serviced only to get it back and its still doing the same thing 

the single fire ones where you load each nail work great but their slow


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

DeWalt crapped their pants a long time ago. They are more hype then anything right now. They are still riding the wave they created years ago. People will think DeWalt is great and buy it b/c of what it used to be. The same is true of other things like FRAM oil filters. WAY back when they used to be great...now they are pure junk when you look at tests that compare oil filters.


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## Krankworks (Oct 14, 2011)

I'd go with Bosch any day. I have yet to have any break downs and I own thousands of dollars in Bosch tools. I'm at the point now where I don't even shop around I just go and choose the bosch one. A bit more money but well worth it.


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## valleyman (Dec 18, 2007)

What is up with all the different voltages Dewalt is offering? In lithium (not counting the subcompact) they have 18, 20, 28 and 36. It gives me the impression they're struggling to get one right.


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## Mike- (Aug 20, 2011)

Krankworks said:


> I'd go with Bosch any day. I have yet to have any break downs and I own thousands of dollars in Bosch tools. I'm at the point now where I don't even shop around I just go and choose the bosch one. A bit more money but well worth it.


I hear you on that one. Only my pneumatics are Paslode&Max. Other than that, Bosch has really never let me down in any regard. They are such well designed and durable tools.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

woodworkbykirk said:


> very true about festool, ive been considering selling my house and living out of my truck so i can afford a festool ball cap let lone the kapex
> .... scary when my house is worth a respectable chunk of change


Buy the Kapex and they will give you the ball cap free! :clap:

Now your thinkin', aren't you?



EmmCeeDee said:


> I think it goes without saying there has to be a cost / benefit analysis here. In my experience for most power tools you have an entry level / HO brand, then for about 50% higher cost are the "pro" brands, and then for 50% - 100% more are the Festool and Hiltis.
> 
> You do get what you pay for, mostly. Most contractors agree that first jump in price buys you significantly higher reliability and performance. For the second jump, personally I am not convinced there is a corresponding increase.
> 
> Of course, there are those who swear by their Festools who have much more experience than me. I certainly hope one day I will be in a financial position to find out if they are right.


I just bought my first Festool last week, a Trion jigsaw.

I will say to the good>better>best / is the best worth it comment EmmCeeDee, it really is a matter of, IMO, additional benefits beyond a really well made tool. Dust collection, if you are doing work in inhabited homes is hard to accurately value. The whole systainer thing can seem like overpriced boxes or a way to save yourself a bunch of trips to the van, day in day out.

It's hard to put a value on what a great tool brings to your day, day in day out, but when you divide the extra cost of the bonuses over the years of the tool it comes down to pennies.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Hell, I want to buy a second Kapex. Keep one in the trailer/truck and the other in the shop.

I was going to buy an Omga but, the Kapex is a bargain compared to one of those.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Hell, I want to buy a second Kapex. Keep one in the trailer/truck and the other in the shop.
> 
> I was going to buy an Omga but, the Kapex is a bargain compared to one of those.


Thanks, :thumbsup: now when I am ready to get my Kapex I can show my girlie one of those and say "well that is what I really needed, but I decided to economize and get the Festool instead. You are right honey we do need to save up for that blah blah you were telling me about." :laughing: :whistling


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

omga??? what is that like $679,599


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

woodworkbykirk said:


> omga??? what is that like $679,599


http://www.omgainc.com/productfamily_detail.php?cid=2&sub_id=0&pid=11

If you trick it out, you can wrap up about 6k in one.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

nothing like a 225 lb miter saw. :thumbsup:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

$ 4000 saw, and $100 per trip to the chiropractor... sounds like hell of a deal


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

After being a long time makita fan I have to say they ain't a spot on festool. The more I use the tools the more I'm impressed by them. I'm finding out stuff my festool tools do even after owning them for a while. They are just so slick and nice to use. It's like driving a chevy then getting into an Audi.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> After being a long time makita fan I have to say they ain't a spot on festool. The more I use the tools the more I'm impressed by them. I'm finding out stuff my festool tools do even after owning them for a while. They are just so slick and nice to use. It's like driving a chevy then getting into an Audi.


How many times have you taped something to avoid splintering? The festool jigsaws come with little rectangle plexiglass splinterguards. You cut into them with the blade you are using and viola! splintering solved.

I mean how many seconds/minutes/hours will just this one little feature save over the course of a year or two or three? For me if it is just a few then the tool paid for the difference in price already. The tool company that is putting this kind of thought into their tools, and I bought the crappy old model :laughing: to run the Collins coping foot, is the company I want my kit from. :thumbsup:

The new model is even more fly. That's the kinda shyte I'm talkin' about.

I loved my Bosch barrel jig compared to my old D-handle DeWault but the blade deflection is not so hot, and the base for setting angles is a little sloppy.

I think it is fair to say that Festool is to Bosch as Bosch is to Ryobi. Bosch is a quantum leap over Ryobi in power and reliability with added features but Festool is a quantum leap over Bosch in fit and features with added power and reliability. (this is a generalization for illustration purposes, no need to come to the defense of your respective favorite brand, just trying to articulate a point)

Yeah, it's worth it, if your work is.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

see, any saw looks like a deal compared to that omga.

it would be nice to have one for the shop though.


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## Brendan_Cregg (Oct 23, 2011)

Every tool guide i've bought in the past three years rate dewalt's cordless right in the middle tools and large corded tools such as thickness planners or routers at the very top. 
In my experiences these tool guides have proved to be very good resources. 
The only rating i have dissagreed with was dewalt 18 volt impact drivers witch i very much perfer to any other brands. the only problem ive had with them is the chargers seem to keep dieing!!

Has any one bought the 20v dewalt cordless tools???


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

It would be nice to have a shop...


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## Redliz75 (Jun 23, 2011)

Something is wrong when Dewalt is selling their products at the same price or chaeper than 10 years ago.


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## Brendan_Cregg (Oct 23, 2011)

oh ooops i guess every ones moved on to festool and miter saws. In this case botch takes it with there axel glide thing. its great because i need half the space to operate it. i can use a 12 inch in a more cramped space than a regular 10 inch. festool's 10 inch looks descent but is the price really worth the lighter weight???


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## Brendan_Cregg (Oct 23, 2011)

Redliz75 said:


> Something is wrong when Dewalt is selling their products at the same price or chaeper than 10 years ago.


could you elaborate? cause that dosnt seem like a bad thing. should we be paying more for the same products 10 years later?


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## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

Makita is the best brand I have found for price and quality. You can buy more or pay less, but finding the one that does well for the price is what most of us look at.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Brendan_Cregg said:


> oh ooops i guess every ones moved on to festool and miter saws. In this case botch takes it with there axel glide thing. its great because i need half the space to operate it. i can use a 12 inch in a more cramped space than a regular 10 inch. festool's 10 inch looks descent but is the price really worth the lighter weight???


I have both them saws. I can tell you now you don't want to be doing anything but rough framing with the Bosch. I have a list of complaints about the Bosch and the more I use it the more problems I find. 

I thought it was gonna be a much better saw than it is. But it seems that no thought has gone into it at all.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> I have both them saws. I can tell you now you don't want to be doing anything but rough framing with the Bosch. I have a list of complaints about the Bosch and the more I use it the more problems I find.
> 
> I thought it was gonna be a much better saw than it is. But it seems that no thought has gone into it at all.


Maybe you should write a CT review on it?


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## mbobbish734 (Apr 28, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Maybe you should write a CT review on it?


I'd read it. Go Ryobi!


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Maybe you should write a CT review on it?


i will get some pics up and a review later on today if i get time.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> I have both them saws. I can tell you now you don't want to be doing anything but rough framing with the Bosch. I have a list of complaints about the Bosch and the more I use it the more problems I find.
> 
> I thought it was gonna be a much better saw than it is. But it seems that no thought has gone into it at all.


 
I can tell you now all I use mine for is finish work. 

Dead square cross cuts, all detents are firm and lock dead on, 45 degress is 45 degress. Deck is flat, fence is flat and in plane, bevel cuts are all straight and not dished. Powers through everything and anything I give it. miter and bevel scales are easy to read, upfront controls, as alwayss, are super nice. Not sure what else you can ask for.


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## Redliz75 (Jun 23, 2011)

Brendan_Cregg said:


> could you elaborate? cause that dosnt seem like a bad thing. should we be paying more for the same products 10 years later?





It costs more to do business than it did 10 years ago. Eveything costs more. It tells me we are not getting the same product 10 years later if it is the same price.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> I can tell you now all I use mine for is finish work.
> 
> Dead square cross cuts, all detents are firm and lock dead on, 45 degress is 45 degress. Deck is flat, fence is flat and in plane, bevel cuts are all straight and not dished. Powers through everything and anything I give it. miter and bevel scales are easy to read, upfront controls, as alwayss, are super nice. Not sure what else you can ask for.


im not saying it cant do the cuts. it just takes way longer to get stuff done with this saw. its accurate but its not accurate working fast which the kapex is.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> im not saying it cant do the cuts. it just takes way longer to get stuff done with this saw. its accurate but its not accurate working fast which the kapex is.


? really? Care to explain. I sometimes get the feeling some Festool guys get a placebo effect going. It must be that much better, it cost that much more. I am sure the KAPEX is a very nice saw, but you can do the work just fine with other high quality saws out there. At this stage of the game is it WAY more about the person using the saw then the saw itself. We are not comparing the KAPEX to the Kobolt slider...

I am not here to say the Bosch is better then the KAPEX, but to say the Axial glide is junk and not worthy of anything but framing is absurd.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> ? really? Care to explain. I sometimes get the feeling some Festool guys get a placebo effect going. It must be that much better, it cost that much more. I am sure the KAPEX is a very nice saw, but you can do the work just fine with other high quality saws out there. At this stage of the game is it WAY more about the person using the saw then the saw itself. We are not comparing the KAPEX to the Kobolt slider...
> 
> I am not here to say the Bosch is better then the KAPEX, but to say the Axial glide is junk and not worthy of anything but framing is absurd.


Let's put it this way. My makita was a better saw than the axial glide so no it's not a placebo affect at all. I have explained before why I'm not happy with the saw. Even Bosch called me to explain why some of the things are the way they are. A few of the rings I don't like are. Lack of laser. Yes you can use the saw without a laser but some cuts where the pencil line is at the back of the piece take 3-4 cuts over 1 with the kapex or makita, way to much kick when the saw starts as it has no soft start. When this kick back starts then you lift of the trigger you then trying to stop the brake from kicking the balde back into the piece your cutting. I'm getting used to this but it's not right to have to deal with that ach and every time you cut. The outfeed supports get stuck on the stand clamps and end up ruining my hands to to get them out. The bevel adjustment is clunky and a nightmare to adjust for very small increments. The material clamp looks like it was off a HF saw. The gimped cut capacities at certain angles are silly for a 12" saw. The weight of the saw is mind boggling. It's just way way heavier than it needs to be and is def not a good saw for doing work in someone's home because you can't get the dam thing through door ways and up stairs without taking out stuff on ya way. The handle is a in an awkward position compared to my makita and kapex but again I'm trying to get used it it but it never feels right as I'm also using the kapex a lot and it feels so nice. There's just zero comparison between the kapex and axial glide. That's without going into detail about what the kapex can do better on things like depth stop cuts, out of square corner cuts, dust extraction ect ect. The feature list of the kapex is 5x the Bosch.


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## csv (Aug 18, 2009)

I still like Dewalt tools. Out 5 years of having 18v stuff I haven't had any issues that warrant complaining about quality. Their corded tools have fared just as well. I also have had good success with Makita and Ridgid.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Let's put it this way. My makita was a better saw than the axial glide so no it's not a placebo affect at all. I have explained before why I'm not happy with the saw. Even Bosch called me to explain why some of the things are the way they are. A few of the rings I don't like are. Lack of laser. Yes you can use the saw without a laser but some cuts where the pencil line is at the back of the piece take 3-4 cuts over 1 with the kapex or makita, way to much kick when the saw starts as it has no soft start. When this kick back starts then you lift of the trigger you then trying to stop the brake from kicking the balde back into the piece your cutting. I'm getting used to this but it's not right to have to deal with that ach and every time you cut. The outfeed supports get stuck on the stand clamps and end up ruining my hands to to get them out. The bevel adjustment is clunky and a nightmare to adjust for very small increments. The material clamp looks like it was off a HF saw. The gimped cut capacities at certain angles are silly for a 12" saw. The weight of the saw is mind boggling. It's just way way heavier than it needs to be and is def not a good saw for doing work in someone's home because you can't get the dam thing through door ways and up stairs without taking out stuff on ya way. The handle is a in an awkward position compared to my makita and kapex but again I'm trying to get used it it but it never feels right as I'm also using the kapex a lot and it feels so nice. There's just zero comparison between the kapex and axial glide. That's without going into detail about what the kapex can do better on things like depth stop cuts, out of square corner cuts, dust extraction ect ect. The feature list of the kapex is 5x the Bosch.


 
Sounds like way more personal preference stuff to me. I have used my Axial glide to make depth stop cuts...and out of square corner cuts...yeah that little angle finder you have for the KAPEX is cool, but a digital miter finder works just as well plus has many other uses. Maybe your just upset that you spent $800 on a saw that you really didn't need seeing you already have a great saw. I just find some of your issues unfounded...


To each their own, but your claims are biased and untrue IMO. I also owned the Makita LS1016L....two of them, both went back...mostly for personal preference and some blade wobble.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> Sounds like way more personal preference stuff to me. I have used my Axial glide to make depth stop cuts...and out of square corner cuts...yeah that little angle finder you have for the KAPEX is cool, but a digital miter finder works just as well plus has many other uses. Maybe your just upset that you spent $800 on a saw that you really didn't need seeing you already have a great saw. I just find some of your issues unfounded...
> 
> 
> To each their own, but your claims are biased and untrue IMO. I also owned the Makita LS1016L....two of them, both went back...mostly for personal preference and some blade wobble.



I know I'm spoilt with the kapex for sure. It's an unmatched contractor/shop saw for it's price. I was just expecting the Bosch to be much better than my makita. I had the LS1013FL which was rated as being a better saw than the newer LS1016L so this could be why you like the Bosch over the makita but i miss myold makita. I just expected more from the Bosch. I love it for framing decks though. It sure can tear through the lumber fast and I don't mind smashing the odd 2x12x16 into it and just keep working. If I done that to the kapex I would spend 20mins making sure I didn't knock it out.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Two years of hard use and I have yet to have to adjust anything on my Kapex.

I stopped being nice to any tool a year or so ago, I treat them all the same.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> I know I'm spoilt with the kapex for sure. It's an unmatched contractor/shop saw for it's price. I was just expecting the Bosch to be much better than my makita. I had the LS1013FL which was rated as being a better saw than the newer LS1016L so this could be why you like the Bosch over the makita but i miss myold makita. I just expected more from the Bosch. I love it for framing decks though. It sure can tear through the lumber fast and I don't mind smashing the odd 2x12x16 into it and just keep working. If I done that to the kapex I would spend 20mins making sure I didn't knock it out.


Biggest problem with tool reviews...once you get to a certain point everything is just personal preference, they are all capable machines. I watched the Amish doing cab work with an old Hitachi C10FS and the newer Hitachi C10FSH. Two different guys, two different saws and both made perfect cuts and made it look easy while doing it.

I know a cabinet maker who works for a high end company and all they have is the 8 1/4" Hitachi sliders in their shop with some C10FS for field work. The saws are old and well used, but the guys are still super accurate with them. If you look at reviews, Hitachi always comes in at the bottom for not having gizmos and gadets, but every cab maker I know or seen uses them.

Anyway, this thread has gone off topic.....so lets get back to the DeWalt bashing....:jester:


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