# replacing cast iron hw radiators w/ hot water baseboards



## nycphotography

I buy and renovate foreclosed duplexes to rent.

In one house, several cast iron radiators were stolen.

I'm planning to replace the missing ones w/ modern baseboards, but I have two questions:

First, a 6' baseboard radiator seems to have less BTU capacity than a 3' 4 row cast iron one. Can you point me toward the resources I need to figure out how to get the right capacity? (I can read and do math, links are fine, but a walkthrough on calculating capacity on baseboards vs cast iron would be helpful).

Second, if I need 6' of capacity but only have 3' of wall space, what do I do? Stack two 3' baseboards one over the other? Can I plumb them in parallel, or do I have to run a return line across from one to the other? (think a bathroom that had a tall narrow cast iron radiator).

Third, I know the remaining cast irons will have latent heat causing imbalances. How would I balance them w/ the baseboards? Or should I just replace all the radiators w/ baseboards since they're so cheap?

Thanks,
John


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## Jackpine Savage

nycphotography said:


> I buy and renovate foreclosed duplexes to rent.
> 
> In one house, several cast iron radiators were stolen.
> 
> I'm planning to replace the missing ones w/ modern baseboards, but I have two questions:
> 
> First, a 6' baseboard radiator seems to have less BTU capacity than a 3' 4 row cast iron one. Can you point me toward the resources I need to figure out how to get the right capacity? (I can read and do math, links are fine, but a walkthrough on calculating capacity on baseboards vs cast iron would be helpful).
> 
> Second, if I need 6' of capacity but only have 3' of wall space, what do I do? Stack two 3' baseboards one over the other? Can I plumb them in parallel, or do I have to run a return line across from one to the other? (think a bathroom that had a tall narrow cast iron radiator).
> 
> Third, I know the remaining cast irons will have latent heat causing imbalances. How would I balance them w/ the baseboards? Or should I just replace all the radiators w/ baseboards since they're so cheap?
> 
> Thanks,
> John


Been there done that. I'm not a heating guy, but the only way I could see it working is if you have two completely different zones for the two different types of heaters. 

Fill a cast iron radiator with hot water, and it radiates heat for a long time. A fin tube is stone cold in a short time. Completely different animals.


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## nycphotography

*Can anyone point me to a reference to help w/ sizing the baseboards using the cast iron as a reference?*

Looks like I'll be pulling the half of the cast iron that wasn't stolen and replacing ALL the cast iron w/ fin tube baseboards in both units (7 baseboards per unit). It's a lot cheaper than replacing the missing cast iron, and baseboards work great if sized correctly in a matched system.


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## Leo G

You can use a euro style radiator. They are tall like cast iron and might have the BTU capacity of them.


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## Leo G

These even look like cast iron but not as bulky. They have BTU listed

http://www.runtalnorthamerica.com/residential_radiators/column-r-radiators.html


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## rrk

I guess you already checked to make sure it is not steam heat, right?

The euro style like the Runtal are nice, there is another one who's name escapes me that I used to get from a place in N.H. That was also nice and cheaper than Runtal.


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## Morning Wood

Who the hell steals a cast iron radiator? Those things are so heavy. Buderus makes a panel radiator too. They're ok


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## nycphotography

The house is definitely hot water and not steam.

I guess I really need help reverse engineering the BTU capacity of the cast iron radiators, then from that I can size the baseboards.


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## UALocal1Plumber

I think you're giving yourself a headache for no reason. Pick up CI radiators to replace the missing units. Governale makes the common ones around here. They're similar in price to CI baseboard.

Copper baseboard may seem like a good idea in the rental unit, but they're subject to abuse and theft as well. Plus you'll never get the system to run well because the pipe and drops were designed for a certain BTU/hr in each area. there's no reason to mess with it.

Think of the labor needed to pipe in the new baseboard as well. Replace the radiators, you'll be done in 1 2 3.

Keith


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## nycphotography

For example, one radiator that was "almost stolen" is 24" tall, 5 rows, 22 sections.

This site says that's 3.0 x 22 x 170 = 11,220 BTU.

http://www.colonialsupply.com/resources/radiator3.htm

But a new baseboard says 330 BTU / ft. That means I need 34 FEET of baseboard?? 

Really?


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## nycphotography

UALocal1Plumber said:


> I think you're giving yourself a headache for no reason. Pick up CI radiators to replace the missing units. Governale makes the common ones around here. They're similar in price to CI baseboard.
> 
> Copper baseboard may seem like a good idea in the rental unit, but they're subject to abuse and theft as well. Plus you'll never get the system to run well because the pipe and drops were designed for a certain BTU/hr in each area. there's no reason to mess with it.
> 
> Think of the labor needed to pipe in the new baseboard as well. Replace the radiators, you'll be done in 1 2 3.
> 
> Keith


Really? I'll look for those this afternoon... 

any suggestions where to buy in NJ or E PA?


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## UALocal1Plumber

Just try a local plumbing supply. I don't know who's near you sorry.


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## nycphotography

I called Governale, they referred a couple local houses. Only one in NE PA is in Stroudsburg. When the time comes, I'll call OCS too. They both do CI, both in Brooklyn.

$350 to replace one stolen radiator. With 2-4 missing, it becomes an even wash between buying $1500 of radiators or buying $1500 baseboards. Or maybe $750 in baseboards and consolidate the iron from two units into one.

Guess I should just replace the CI to avoid sizing and design problems in the future. Thanks.



As an aside, I just checked scrap prices... they're worth around $20 in scrap iron. Gotta love a meth head. Wrestling 200 lbs of iron out of a house to get $20 (or less) for scrap, and doing $500 damage in the process.


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## nycphotography

Guess what I just found....

http://bed-stuy.patch.com/listings/kevin-richard-plumbing-heating-supplies

A huge warehouse of used radiators in Brooklyn... open 24/7.

That should help lower the cost of replacing them.


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## UALocal1Plumber

nycphotography said:


> I called Governale, they referred a couple local houses. Only one in NE PA is in Stroudsburg. When the time comes, I'll call OCS too. They both do CI, both in Brooklyn.
> 
> $350 to replace one stolen radiator. With 2-4 missing, it becomes an even wash between buying $1500 of radiators or buying $1500 baseboards. Or maybe $750 in baseboards and consolidate the iron from two units into one.
> 
> Guess I should just replace the CI to avoid sizing and design problems in the future. Thanks.
> 
> As an aside, I just checked scrap prices... they're worth around $20 in scrap iron. Gotta love a meth head. Wrestling 200 lbs of iron out of a house to get $20 (or less) for scrap, and doing $500 damage in the process.


Trust me, that **** will make you do crazy things.

Keith


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## Rich D.

Get used radiators.. i know that place in brooklyn as posted above


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