# Home Owner supplied materials



## SDC (Jan 12, 2009)

While it is not my regular practice to do jobs with the home owner supplying some materials, I am looking to give a proposal on this bathroom. The HO is supplying the;
sinks
faucets 
vanities
toilet 
shower
(they bought the stuff thinking they would do it themselves).

I am looking to write it into my proposal that i am not responsible for warranty and or quality of the products, I will warranty the install, not the product. Also costs if there is a problem with the item, (parts missing, broken etc,)
Does anyone have a clause or wording from a contract/proposal that you would not mind letting me look at to copy some ideas.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

you can try looking here


----------



## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

This is common for me. I would never dream of picking out someones faucet,fixtures, or ammenities. 

I simply tell the HO to go to their favorite bath supply store and pick out what they want and give me model numbers for pickup, or have them get the items theirselves.

I will present them with options or samples/examples to help them decide what is right for them.

As for contract stipulations mine reads like so:

FIXTURES AND EQUIPMENT SUPPLIED BY OTHERS:

Fixtures are defined as: Toilets, Shower Glass, Faucets, Vanities, Sinks, Vainity Tops, Paper Hangers, Shower or Towel Bars.

Price includes the installation of fixtures only. All fixtures and ammenities to be supplied by home owner at home owners expense. 

Contractor shall not be responsible for fixtures and equipment supplied by others and losses due to theft, damage, vandalism, immproper shipping and packaging, etc. 

Fixtures and ammenities are not the responsibility of Adept Home Repair Services. Fixtures and ammenities must be purchased and stored by home owner.


----------



## SDC (Jan 12, 2009)

wizendwizard said:


> This is common for me. I would never dream of picking out someones faucet,fixtures, or ammenities.
> 
> I simply tell the HO to go to their favorite bath supply store and pick out what they want and give me model numbers for pickup, or have them get the items theirselves.
> 
> ...


I agree I would never pick them out for them, but I usually have them shop at a showroom I do business with. They can pick out what they want, within the allowances we set. The girls at the showroom know my markup, they will show the home owner list price, then their price (after my markup). 
Thanks for your help. I will use some of these clauses.

Thanks
Dave


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Have fun with that one. It'll be a gas when you open the vanity box and discover the kicked in side of the vanity or the missing drawer slide, then the counter top and you find out it's a 8" hole one and the faucet they bought is a 4" one. And of course as you're installing the faucet you'll find out the drain is plastic instead of metal since they bought it at Home Depot and you'll accidently cross thread it and have to go get another one, and of course then when you're hooking up the facuet you'll find out the special nut is missing because they bought the faucet from Home Depot and it was bought 2 weekends before by someone else who F'd up the install, stuffed it back in the box missing some parts and returned it and told Home Depot it was perfect and they put it back on the shelf, then you'll discover the shower valve they bought is IPS and you'll have to run to the store to buy some male threaded copper couplers, the toilet will be one of those fancy totos that they bought on Ebay, the seller gave them a good deal cause its missing some parts, plus they'll suprise it on you and you'll find out it's one of those kinds with the special adapters instead of a 12" rough and it takes 2 hours to install instead of 30 minutes, plus it will leak the first time you install it, cause it's not the same as a regular ole toilet, oh yeah don't forget to smile when you discover the vanity is a full face frame type and it installs against a wall with a doorway and when you pull the drawer out it will hit the door casing and only open 4 inches, it will need a filler strip which they don't have and you'll get to fabricate one and stain it on site, but of course then the premade Pegasus counter top (2nd one now) won't fit after you add the filler strip...

They will be great though and pay your double what you thought it would take you to do this easy job where the customer buys everything, but you have to spend double the time making everything work and waiting for them to get replacements.

... and other than that it will all be good.

:laughing:


----------



## SDC (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks Mike, I understand all those pit falls. I've been doing this over 25 yrs. I appreciate your concern, my price is well over 14K and they are supplying it all, if they take it great if not there are others to do. 
I was trying to attach a "Chief Architect" design I did on it to show how simple it is, but it would not take:sad:
BTW I do the entire Home Depot/Lowes routine just like you said to me I say to them.(a bit more tactful though) they actually went to a supplier, got some good moen stuff and Bertch vanities.


----------



## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

That subject came up today at my contractor ed class. The lawyer giving the class said "Make sure you separate yourself from the product by writing that the HO bought the stuff and you cannot warranty materials, also add the usual disclaimer about extra for trips ect.". But it sounds like you know that, so why the question? The lawyer went on to say it does release you from certain warranty issues if you word things correctly. He went on to say simple terms and have the HO initial your changes.


----------



## SDC (Jan 12, 2009)

silvertree said:


> That subject came up today at my contractor ed class. The lawyer giving the class said "Make sure you separate yourself from the product by writing that the HO bought the stuff and you cannot warranty materials, also add the usual disclaimer about extra for trips ect.". But it sounds like you know that, so why the question? The lawyer went on to say it does release you from certain warranty issues if you word things correctly. He went on to say simple terms and have the HO initial your changes.


Just looking to see how other people word their docs. Always looking for more info. It never hurts.


----------



## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Sell them a warranty for 10% above their cost. :thumbup:


----------



## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

I've done it and just put something like "No warranty on HO purchased materials".
I did a bath a few years ago and the women bought the faucet at Menards, so she calls me up 6 months later whining about the handle is stripped. I forgot that she bought it and finally asked"Didn't you buy that faucet"? She said yes and it felt so good to say, "I'm sorry but I can't warranty someone elses product". She got some guy to come out and the $50 she saved buying that faucet was burned up in the replacement, and then some.
It sounds like you got a good job waiting, I wouldn't worry about anything more than a simple clause explaining your position.


----------



## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

silvertree said:


> I've done it and just put something like "No warranty on HO purchased materials".
> I did a bath a few years ago and the women bought the faucet at Menards, so she calls me up 6 months later whining about the handle is stripped. I forgot that she bought it and finally asked"Didn't you buy that faucet"? She said yes and it felt so good to say, "I'm sorry but I can't warranty someone elses product". She got some guy to come out and the $50 she saved buying that faucet was burned up in the replacement, and then some.
> It sounds like you got a good job waiting, I wouldn't worry about anything more than a simple clause explaining your position.


I do a similar standard clause: no warranty on client supplied materials, etc... for the same reasons.


----------



## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

None of you should be Warrantying the materials...ever! You didn't build the stuff. Look at it this way; The Manufactures DO NOT warranty the install so why would you warranty the product? It really does not matter who bought it. 

Now, if the HO supplies materials, I'd add a clause in there for problems like others said. They bought an 8" OC faucet but needed a 4". If you can not put it in right then and there, you are making a second trip. If they bought the wrong size counter, wrong tub, etc. You need to have all that spelled out.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

FWIW, here's what my boilerplate contract spells out:




> 09. FIXTURES AND EQUIPMENT SUPPLIED BY OTHERS:
> a. Proposed price includes the installation of fixtures furnished by others, if fixtures are on job at time of electrical trim out. Fluorescent fixtures supplied by others shall be assembled, pre-whipped, and pre-lamped unless other arrangements are made prior do installation.
> b. Electrical Contractor shall not be responsible for fixtures and equipment supplied by others and losses due to theft, damage, vandalism, etc. are not the responsibility of *Code Electric*. Fixtures and equipment must be stored by others.
> 
> ...


 
So not only am I not liable for any warranty, I'm not responsible for it before I am ready to install it.

For instance, if a HO puts their light fixtures in their home tonight and I show up tomorrow and find them AWOL, it's not my problem.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

silvertree said:


> I did a bath a few years ago and the women bought the faucet at Menards, so she calls me up 6 months later whining about the handle is stripped. I forgot that she bought it and finally asked"Didn't you buy that faucet"? She said yes and it felt so good to say, "I'm sorry but I can't warranty someone elses product". She got some guy to come out and the $50 she saved buying that faucet was burned up in the replacement, and then some.


AND...

Here in lies the rub.

That customer loves you for that one. The tens of hours of great installation, customer service, the great quality work you put into it all washed down the frick'n toilet now over the stripped handle. 

When you install their crap and it breaks and you stand by your contract, all the good will goes down the toilet, they forget all the blood sweat and tears, all the work you did and will now only remember the stripped handle and the $100 you made them spend with who knows who showed up. 

*This is the rub. The only thing this woman will be telling her friends, family and neighbors is she spent $10,000 with you and you wouldn't fix her stripped handle.*

You can stand by your contract and throw it all away or eat it in the shorts and fix their stripped handle at a loss to yourself in order to preserve your referral.

The sh*tty outcome all started 6 months ago when you said yes to installing a customers crap from Home Depot.

(Not picking on you Silvertree, just using your situation as an example of the lose/lose situation this has the potential to turn into)


----------



## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

LNG24 said:


> None of you should be Warrantying the materials...ever! You didn't build the stuff. Look at it this way; The Manufactures DO NOT warranty the install so why would you warranty the product? It really does not matter who bought it.
> 
> Now, if the HO supplies materials, I'd add a clause in there for problems like others said. They bought an 8" OC faucet but needed a 4". If you can not put it in right then and there, you are making a second trip. If they bought the wrong size counter, wrong tub, etc. You need to have all that spelled out.


Correct, we do not warranty products, but we do get the call when a product fails. So to clarify, my disclaimer gets me off the hook for product failure and replacement costs.

Mike, you bring up a good point, and its a losing deal when you look at it that way. This particular person learned something and I hope she understood my point, but she probably did not. Loser for me. And I have been the good guy and that got me nothing either. A lot of what we do is a judgement call based on how were feeling at the moment.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I only bring up the contract lose/lose thing, cause to me that's where it ends up being if you pursue it on small items. 

For me it's just there to protect us from the big A-hole, not the normal customer. Just the one that you've lost all benefits from already, the lunatic that it's just a matter of how painful will it be in the end type. For the normal person, we always default to eat it now.

That's a good point in regard to who warranties what (Manufacturer's warranty)

In a perfect world shouldn't the manufacturer pay the labor to replace it? I've never pursued it, when I get a call we just do what it takes to rectify as quickly as possible. About the worst I've been put in is a bad cartridge hear or there, and we just eat the costs of getting it put in as quickly as possible.


----------



## ottagosoon (Nov 4, 2008)

I try and steer away from installing owner’s items but not to say I haven’t installed owner’s items. I have a lot of owners call and say they bought a door from home depot and want me to install it. I kind of wonder why they just didn’t get home depot to install it when they were buying the door. They have the install price right there with the door price.
But I will tell that I add in the cost of those owner’s items to be install by me just to add the markup value of those items to my estimate then back out their material value. If I can do one door install and markup the labor and material why should I do the same job and just markup the labor? It is basically the same job they should be worth the same. So did the owner really save any money buying his items? Not with me he didn’t.:w00t: YEA ME:clap:


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

*Thanks to Sonny for this wording*

I use this in my contracts....

X -Owner Supplied Materials and/or Labor 

A - Materials supplied by the owner often create scheduling and guarantee problems 
and are therefore generally frowned upon in our industry. Should you elect to 
supply materials, they will be exempt from our guarantee and may, at our 
discretion, void the guarantee of related work if failure occurs. All owner supplied material is expected to be furnished on date required by contractor and fully assembled, otherwise you will be charged for assembly labor unless otherwise 
stated in this contract. Should owner supplied material be defective or not to acceptable standards as determined by Pearce Services, prior to or after installation, owner will be charged for any time wasted by our employees or subcontractors and their employees for rework, or delays if they have to wait for your procurement of a replacement unit or parts of the unit. 

B - Labor supplied by the owner will be subject to the same conditions as stated above for owner supplied material. In addition, should work to be performed by the owner cause delays in the work we or our subcontractors are to perform as part of this contract, you may, at our discretion, be charged for the time if we or the 
subcontractors cannot work on another project elsewhere for any reason. 
If owner supplies any of his/her own labor for any aspect of this project, 
regardless if minor or significant, owner is not to be considered an 
employee of general contractor or his sub-contractors and as such, is not 
covered by either workers compensation or liability insurance. Therefore, 
owner is acting on his/her own and is not acting under the direction or control 
of the contractor, or responsible to the general or sub contractors. 

C - Delays caused by the above will be added to the allowable schedule 
and will hold contractor harmless for those delays.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> ......*This is the rub. The only thing this woman will be telling her friends, family and neighbors is she spent $10,000 with you and you wouldn't fix her stripped handle.*.....


Which is easily avoided by 1). telling the customer at the beginning of the project that you will not warrant their supplies, 2). telling the customer when you install their product that you will not warrant their supplies, and 3). telling the customer that you will not warrant their supplies when you submit your final bill.

This can be accomplished by either verbal (not se great) means, or be written means on an invoice (preferred method). Both would be better.

If it's in your contract, you submit at least 2 invoices, and you verbally tell the customer about the warranty issue, then they've been informed no less than six times. If they don't get it after six times, maybe they shouldn't be your customer.


----------



## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

SDC said:


> While it is not my regular practice to do jobs with the home owner supplying some materials, I am looking to give a proposal on this bathroom. The HO is supplying the;
> sinks
> faucets
> vanities
> ...


I have a clause in it, but you should also write it on the face of the contract, wording on the face is more important than fine print on the back.

It looks like you are in a unique situation, spell out very clearly what will happen when parts are missing, they don't work for whatever reason etc.

If it is missing a minor part or cost a little bit of time, I wouldn't hammer them, but let them know you did them a favor and ate some additional work.

these people may turn out to be great clients and appreciate your efforts more than other people since you are bailing them out.


----------

