# 240 3 phase?



## 4319hendrie (Apr 19, 2006)

This is defiantly out of my area but hopefully one of you can help us out. We have this outlet in the shop and have no clue what type of power it is. We need 240 v 3 phase to power a machine, and are not sure if this is 240 or 480 3 phase. We are holding off on ordering the machine until we know for sure, and haven't had a chance to get anyone over to look at it. Can anyone tell ju


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

4319hendrie said:


> This is defiantly out of my area but hopefully one of you can help us out. We have this outlet in the shop and have no clue what type of power it is. We need 240 v 3 phase to power a machine, and are not sure if this is 240 or 480 3 phase. We are holding off on ordering the machine untill we know for sure, and haven't had a chance to get anyone over to look at it. Can anyone tell just by looking at this?
> 
> <a href="http://s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj285/4319hendrie/?action=view&current=IMG_0429.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj285/4319hendrie/IMG_0429.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


 
I think you will need to check it with a meter. I believe there is only 208 or 480 three phase, no 240 any longer.


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

According to the marking tape you have 240V single phase.

The white tape indicates neutral. The black and red would be 120V each, 240 (or 208) between them.



You really need to *check with a meter* and/or follow it to the source.






> I believe there is only 208 or 480 three phase, no 240 any longer.


Sure there is. Maybe no new installations but lots of existing.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Sure there is 240v. 

I would definitely check the actual voltage with a meter as well.

I think you would know if you have 480 in the building. Check the rating of the disconnect as well.


What do you need this for? What is the load? This is just as important as the voltage.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

I question whether that white is a neutral. Switching a neutral is a no-no unless all the circuit conductors are also disconnected, such as this disconnect, but it is still a HIGHLY questionable practice.

Maybe someone with some pin-and-sleeve experience can shed some light here.


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## 4319hendrie (Apr 19, 2006)

*Load*

This is going to be used to power an AC/DC inverter in order to give us DC to power a DC Motor Drive for testing purposes. The Inverter runs off of 240 3 phase and can draw up to 100 amps. We just need to figure out if this is 480 or 240.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

4319hendrie said:


> The Inverter runs off of 240 3 phase and can *draw up to 100 amps*. We just need to figure out if this is 480 or 240.


DRAW up to 100A??? Are you aware of th size circuit you will need for this. 
Like I tried to say, "3-phase" XXX volts is only HALF the equasion. The actual draw is just as important. 
Those wires don't look like 1/0 to me. 

I STRONGLY suggest you get a qualified electrician in there to help you. This is no place to be messing if you don't know what you are doing.


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## 4319hendrie (Apr 19, 2006)

I can guarantee there will be no messing around, certainly not with this voltage and load. There are certainly a lot of variables and we need to talk with an electrician. I am just trying to get a feel for what is going on here. Thanks for your help so far.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

NO problem. 
Seeing as this is obviously a commercial seeing I'd really not want to see anyone get hurt or burn up a likely high-dollar machine.


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## Thomp (Feb 11, 2008)

That receptacle is pin and sleeve. You probably need help.


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

you need an electrician


Pin and sleve stuf is expensive and usally not in stock , but sometimes graingers has it it 

Most equipment is 120/208 3 phase, Bee careful your source isnt a 120/240 3 phase open delta wild leg b orange:laughing: better known as the bit*h bank with the ba*tard phase ,put some 120 on the wild leg once and you will never do it again.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Hard to tell the voltage from this chair.


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## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

wrenchman said:


> I think you will need to check it with a meter. I believe there is only 208 or 480 three phase, no 240 any longer.


We just installed a new 240v 3 Phase last year. Why a delta over a wye, don't know. Was kinda a waste in my opinion. There really wasn't much 3/P equip.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

fridaymean said:


> We just installed a new 240v 3 Phase last year. Why a delta over a wye, don't know. Was kinda a waste in my opinion. There really wasn't much 3/P equip.



The only reason (and correct me if I'm wrong), for using a delta set up is for loads like 3-phase motors that don't require a neutral. And with the wye set up 120 volts is available because of the neutral. Wye is more practical because it delivers 1ø and 3ø.


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

An 120/240 3 phase 4 wire open delta will give 120 you as long as you dont tap b phase.


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## 4319hendrie (Apr 19, 2006)

I am told by an electrical engineer who looked at the pictures that we are talking about 230volt grounded B phase. Does that sound right?


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Could be. There has got to be a reason that center phase is taped white.

I must say, an EE is not who you should have looking at this. Most EE's have very little experience in the "construction electrical" world. They can tell you where the electrons are going and how fast, but not how big of a wire you need to carry 100A at 240v 3phase.
You are in the right place right here.


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## frenchelectrica (Sep 26, 2003)

I hate to be rude to the OP i stronly get your ase and get a electrician have him verify the voltage and phase set up.

it possiblty a delta system or corner grounded system as well [ hard to say ]

for the pin and sleeve connector hard to say unless the model number is stamped on the pin device then i can able tell what amparage it is both 60 and 100 amp verison is very simuair in size wise but the pin it have diffrent diamaiter.

the pin and sleeve have litte odd set up the way it work the ground pin will first make or last break before the phase conductors will be and some case the housing is a ground also.

Merci, Marc


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## 4319hendrie (Apr 19, 2006)

Alright guys, thanks again, I think I have gotten about all I can get off of this post... Time to get a sparkey in there to look at it.!


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## Sidewinder (Apr 17, 2008)

Looks like a 3phase 240V with B grounded. This type of service is used strictly for 3 phase machines. If you test between all phases you wiil get 240V. If you test phase B to ground, you will get no voltage. This system is used so people will not use this for lighting circuits or general receptacles. Hence, 3 phase machines only!! 

Thats what it looks like, but without being there to test it, cannot be sure!!
:thumbup:
Oh, and A phase to ground is 240V and C phase to ground is 240V by the way.


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## Sidewinder (Apr 17, 2008)

cmec said:


> An 120/240 3 phase 4 wire open delta will give 120 you as long as you dont tap b phase.


Yeah, but this is a 240V 3 wire system. It wiil not give you 120 volts on any phase!!


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## AMA D-MAX (May 5, 2008)

great decision call your local licensed electrician to check this thing out.:thumbup:


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