# is this normal for an apprentice?



## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Take the boss aside after work and say, 

"Listen, in my psychology class, I learned that guys like you, who have to belittle others to make themselves feel good, have a personality disorder brought on because they don't love themselves. Why don't you love yourself? Is it because you are an absolute and complete a$$hole?":clap:


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## bert0168 (Jan 28, 2008)

Sounds like an a-hole.

Try this next time he starts to get in your face :thumbsup:


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## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

You're in a difficult place Ike. Some believe treating others like that is acceptable...builds character, etc. I'm not so sure.
I went through it during my late teen years. I thought about quitting but something kept me going. The foreman that I was having trouble with and I almost came to blows one day. I was done. I wasn't going to take his crap anymore and if I got my butt kicked, that was fine too.
He kind of left me alone after that day. I had lost all respect for him though. I saw how small of a person he really was that day. He had some carpentry skills but little or no people skills. Did he have a peronality disorder? Let the doctors to decide. 
I still see him once in a while and we are civil towards each other. He must be in his 70's now, with health problems. 

I guess it was one of those life events that can only make sense years later. 
Good luck
rj


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Kid --You have a jerk for a boss.

When he goes off like that just tell your self-"Thank god I don't have to live with that guy."

Also start looking for another job.--There are more good people in the world than jerks.


When I got my first carpenter job when I was 19 I had the ideal boss. 

The first day he said,"I know that you aren't getting paid what you are worth,but when you leave here you will be a carpenter.
If you make a mistake,I will tell you what you did wrong--tell you how to do it right--,and have you do it over..."


He was good for his word---I've always tried to be that kind of a boss.---Mike---


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Lift some weights. Get in shape. Eat properly. Your arms won't lock up. If they still do find a job you can handle. Pee on your own time.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

likeke34 said:


> idk what the heck... this happens all the time and it's stressing me out... i'm the only apprentice in my company and we got 2 crews of carpenters... both crews has one boss and one journeyman, and they toss me back and forth and it's like this with both crews... is this normal?


Awful funny how so many of ya identify with the kid & wanna stick up for him, but this paragraph stands out to me. Sounds like it's more than just one guy that thinks this kid is worthless on the jobsite. 

Kid, pretty good chance you're in the wrong line of work if that many people treat ya like this. What you consider hustling, most of us would consider lazy & slacking. 

Everyone's taking this kids side, based on his whining story, rather than thinking of it from the perspective of his co workers. I don't believe in talking down to someone for the sake of talking down to them, but we've all been around people like the storyteller & know how frustrating it can be to be trying to actually get something accomplished & the rookie's not carrying his weight & slowing the whole process down.

When I first started in the trades, I was the gopher. My job was the **** detail. Hump most of the materials where they needed to be & have them there before they were needed. Took more than my share of ass chewins for not doing my job, but with time & hard work, I gained the respect of everyone on the crew I worked for. Suck it up kid & keep after it if you really wanna be in this trade. Don't let your itty bitty feelings get in the way of doing your job & earning their respect.

God, what I'd give to be as strong again, as I was when I was the gopher running with a sheet of 3/4" plywood.:notworthy


BTW, when ya start getting cramps like that, you're not drinking enough water. Ya gotta keep hydrated, even if ya don't feel thirsty.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

That is not my method of breaking in an apprentice either. although on occasion I do find some who seem to go to the porta pot like 5 times a day, constantly on phone, lolly gagging, and general disinterest in what is going on. I usually try the screaming method for a while, but I have yet to see it work effectively. It usually ends up just stressing out both of us. My advice would be to see how this guy deals with everyone else. If he yells at everyone, he is just a screamer and always will be. If its only you and it continues for more than a few weeks, sorry my friend, but its probably you!


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

The more this industry encourages neanderthal behaviour, the longer it will stay as a last option for the young worker, somewhere just before prison.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Chris G said:


> The more this industry encourages neanderthal behaviour, the longer it will stay as a last option for the young worker, somewhere just before prison.



So, we just pat em on the ass & say, it'll be alright, we know you're doing the best you can? We'll go ahead & keep writing you a check, cause we know you need the job.:laughing:


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

solarguy said:


> Pee on your own time.




Ever see Tropic Thunder, with Robert Downey Jr.? Solarguy, don't go full retard.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

pinwheel said:


> So, we just pat em on the ass & say, it'll be alright


That patting on the ass might work at your job site, but not around here. You treat them fairly, show them haw to do their job and what is expected. If they are on the phone all day, or lolly-gagging, or not getting it done, you set them straight. A calm ass chewing is a thousand times more effective than blithering ranting. And the reason the entire company acts like that, is because it is tolerated at all levels of the company.

The OP may be at the wrong company, or in the wrong line of work. He needs to figure it out. And if the managment of his employers thinks his is a bad fit, they need to run him


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Ever see Tropic Thunder, with Robert Downey Jr.? Solarguy, don't go full retard.


I think he was the guy they busted in a downtown motel room. No, I never saw the movie. Ever hear the song
" Charlie Brown"?
Nothing is more annoying than a guy going pee when you need something done. I learned to control myself in kindergarten. You do it during recess instead of playing. That on top of constantly dropping your hammer, I'd send you to the other crew as well.
When you are young, all you have is hustle. You need to use it. Cut back on the beer at night, if that's a problem. It dehydrates you causing cramps, makes you pee a lot as well. You need to be an athlete. Have you ever seen them stop a football game so somebody can pee?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

solarguy said:


> nothing is more annoying than a guy going pee when you need something done. I learned to control myself in kindergarten


*tmi*


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

If you are truly busting your hump and you are getting it from both crew's it sounds like you are getting what they call in the Army "bent" or in civilian terms hazed. You don't say how long you have been on the job but I am going to guess its not a long time. Odds are high that they are trying to see if you will stick with it or if they can run you off. Repeat the following in your mind each time you start to get stressed:

1. I don't mind because it doesn't matter
2. The only easy day was yesterday
3. Not dead, can't quit

And realize that they are trying to bend you to see if you will break. Don't give them the satisfaction. Its a mind f*** plain and simple. The only way to win is not to buy into the drama. Hard to do at your age but something you need to learn.

If it continues much past the 3-4 month mark then its really not a case of them trying to bend you and its a case of them either being just a bunch of prick's who have watched too much reality TV or they don't want you there and don't have the minerals to sack you. At that point confront the screamer(s) in private and in calm tones explain to them that you are an apprentice, don't know from nothing and would like them to "help you understand" what you can be doing better so you are not constantly screamed at and treating like you are on a bad reality tv show. If they scream at you after this then go find an apprenticeship somewhere else. 

In my own experience its best to criticize in private and compliment in public. Meaning that if one of my guys is slacking or not carrying his weight then I take him aside and calmly point out what is expected of him. If one of my guys does a stand up job then in front of everyone he gets praised. 

As to the piss problem... Carry a large soda Gatorade bottle or milk carton.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

That was perfect advice, except you forgot



tbronson said:


> As to the piss problem... Carry a large soda Gatorade bottle or milk carton.Fill it up, and when they are not looking, replace the contents of their thermoses


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

There's many view points to every story. I noticed there were no mention of any favorable aspects of this job, the boss or other crew members. 

The boss probably knows you are just a temporary employee in a position that could be filled by anyone and your greatest value to him being the possibility that you WON'T file some frivilous work comp claim for an arm cramp ...like the guy before you.


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> That was perfect advice, except you forgot


HAHAHAH! I was going to add that but refrained! He should only do that if/when he realize they are a bunch of wanna be DI's who watch too much TV.

Funny story. That actually happened to a buddy of mine. He was in SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape) school because he was a "Naval Aviator" (Naval Aviator being a special term for those who's feces smell like flowers and fart rainbows and unicorns far above those who actually work for a living and hump all day). 

You are supposed to have "little victories" to keep your morale up. For example not grabbing your pant legs when you bow to the camp guards etc. 

During the program one of the instructors hands him a coffee pot and tells him to go get water. He thinks its a part of the program and he and his fellow prisoners piss in it. During the AAR/Debrief as they were going over the "little victories" portion he raises his hand and explains what they did... 

*EVERY* instructor turns pale! The instructor who handed him the pot didn't realize that he hadn't told him that it was "for real" and not part of the program!


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

everyone has an opinion...you know what that means.

regarding the boss, I bet he's not making any money and stressed out about the jobs and laying his crap on you. I've had helpers who have been as dumb as a box of rocks and I felt stressed because it took so much of my money making effort to find things for them to do. I've also talked with guys who thought they were good but when I saw them in action they crappy workers. The good ones have initiative and jump in doing what they've seen the other guys doing.


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

72chevy4x4 said:


> everyone has an opinion...you know what that means.


...They all stink 



> regarding the boss, I bet he's not making any money and stressed out about the jobs and laying his crap on you. I've had helpers who have been as dumb as a box of rocks and I felt stressed because it took so much of my money making effort to find things for them to do. I've also talked with guys who thought they were good but when I saw them in action they crappy workers. The good ones have initiative and jump in doing what they've seen the other guys doing.


Then why not sack them? I have had my share of rocks. You get three strikes with me and a chance to earn back each strike. First one is verbal, second one is in writing, third one is "improve in this amount of time by doing these things or you are out". I have to do that because of The People's Progressive Democratic Socialist Workers Paradise of Kalifornia labor laws. 

Absolutely no reason to suffer idiots. 

Furthermore another important lesson I learned was that you complain up. Meaning that my guys ***** either to me or the foreman if there is one on the job, my foreman bitches to me, and I ***** to my boss, and my boss bitches at the ceiling. However my boss doesn't ***** to me and I don't ***** to my guys or my foreman. So even if I am having a particularly s*itty day I *NEVER* take it out on my guys.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

likeke34 said:


> I just need to know if what i'm experiencing as an apprentice is normal because every day i come home just stressed out and can't stop thinking about work. Every day at work i'm busting my @ss off, all sweaty and exhausted and my boss is in my face screaming, "what the hell is wrong with you!" or "HURRY UP! C'MON!" and it's for things that i just can't help most of the time...
> 
> for example, today he left a shovel on the gradall and told me to grab the shovel (i didn't know where he put it). so i took a quick glance around for it and he immediately yelled, "it's on the damn gradall!" so i looked at the gradall that the journeyman who works with me is driving and not even 1second later my boss started screaming really loud, "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU! HUH?!"
> 
> ...


I think your boss may just be an *******, I am not easy to work for but I don't yell and scream at my guys.

I will talk to them about issues I have with them, if they don't learn to do it the way I want it done, they get fired or laid off.

Construction work is not easy, but it sounds like you are doing what it takes to be a good employee, you can try talking to your boss, but it may be a waste of time.

Learn what you can, get some experience and start looking for another job.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

We had a guy we called Manic Mike.
He was always on the move, hustling , jumping in, grabbing this, yanking on that, putting that away before we're done, nailing off before we're braced on & on & on......
Just a huge amount of wasted energy and motion.

Most of it was because he thought moving fast meant production.

What we learn in this business is efficiency.

Think ahead, think safe & think about the big picture.

When they're yelling at you, think about all of us here rooting for you!!:thumbup:


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

I was Hired by A Frenchman to do Framing for a assisted living home, big ass project, his kid "Rocky" was the foreskin on the job- 3 crews and I was on his crew.

He would wait until I got to the end of the building - up on a ladder - top of the plate....ect Then it was HEY>>>>> get over here - get me this or that- fetch this - pick up this at the top of his voice.:sad:

This went on for several weeks ( Rocky was a big guy a few years older) any way I was in the same situation.

Well I did everything asked of me and - showed up early - got on the deck 5min before the other guys DIDN'T matter.:no:

Well the other guys asked my why I didn't tell him off?? I need the job and experience! (but that stuck in my mind)

We were on the 4th fl framing the gables, HEY......get me some 2x4 NOW..... I bring 12 up a 40' ladder and go back to work
I get to the top of the ladder Hey.... get me some 10 d nails..... down I go.....back up ......and back up the ladder (&^&^%_)
HEY..... now I need some 8 d nails ??? I say rocky .... why the hell didn't you tell me before?? JUST GO GET THEM!!!!!

(ARRRR) k .... I get to the top of the ladder with the nails and ask...... Do you need anything else?? he just looked at me and went back to doing what he does NOTHING! He was standing on a 14 by 20 bump out looking down at his father on the Lull.

before I got back to the top of the ridge board .....HEY I need some 6 d for the plywood....... Now we did need the nails and we were going to start to cover the rafters but come on .......... Down I go - back up I come - before I get to the top I here him laughing with his guys........................ Enough:furious:...... that is it............ I threw the box ( yes a 50 lb box) and it busted open on the floor BEFORE he could say pick it up ............. my pouch was off and I was walking toward him with my 32oz Estwing in hand - Rocky you are going off this roof one way or another just say one word......one..... comeon ,,,,, say it....... I could tell by the smell he shat his pants.

I picked up my tools, went down to see the boss to let him know I quit, then left. :clap:

BUT that was not the end I got called by the big boss 2$ more an hour and I will work with my bosses brother.....(who did not like his nephew) I learned more for that guy about building then most I have worked for. Timing is everything:thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

3 possibilities.

1. You are in fact useless and arn't working hard enough, yet you think you are...like those people on American idol that can't sing but think they are the next Perry Como.

2. Your boss was born an a$$hole and tries hard everyday to achieve the epitome of a$$holdome (ok so I made that word up but you get the idea).

3. Its a hazing ritual, once you suck it up hard for a few more weeks he will lay off you and you will be one of the boys. This is kinda standard in most industries to give a baptism of fire.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Some guys aren't worth yelling at. Some guys are. When he stops yelling, then it's time to worry.


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

I love fairy tales! Tell some more!


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## dodgerfan175 (Mar 17, 2010)

I had my fair share of screamers, since I started running my own crews I like giving the screamers on other crews a hard time, especially the carpenters.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

solarguy said:


> Some guys aren't worth yelling at. Some guys are. When he stops yelling, then it's time to worry.


Good Point:thumbsup:

Wear your earplugs....................


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## Vilasman (Feb 22, 2010)

One thing you may want to realize is this. Your boss is yelling at you and being hard on you. If you get to the point that you can actually live up to his expectations you will be very good at what you do. But more importantly when it is your company and your work is your reputation and your work is what is standing between you and a check that you need to pay your rent, car note, pampers for your kid and the other needs of life...
Knowing that you can walk into a project and complete it so well that no one can find fault with it...(not so much that there are no faults, just no one can find them) and walk out and get paid and handle what you need to handle, that is a good feeling.

I somewhat work for grumpy dirty old man who was a pain 20 years ago when I started as an electrician. Now he gives me the work that He dosent want to try to figure out or has gotten to old to try to deal with.

Son, respect is earned. Respect is earned by not just doing everything that your teacher has done in conditions as bad as what they have done it, but doing it better/faster/ in a more innovative way.

Lastly, catching hell as an apprentice, some say it dosent build character.
Well getting ribbed is not that much different from having a customer standing over your shoulder questioning every move you make, or dealing with a bored inspector whose purpose in life is to fail your work, or having to justify why your price is so high to a GC, or in my trade, electric, having to fix something under pressure.

I am not saying I agree with it,but I think the experience serves me well.


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

No-one never ever lift up voice on me. Everything is in your eyes and attitude. 
And you can carry :2guns: or 12" knife in your pocket:laughing:


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

:drink::drink:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Resta said:


> No-one never ever lift up voice on me. Everything is in your eyes and attitude.
> And you can carry :2guns: or 12" knife in your pocket:laughing:


I told a guy "not to look at me in that tone of voice" once. We both just burst out laughing.


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

Sometime I say " I love you too":w00t: - it works better then a cold shower.:laughing:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Sometimes you just have to laugh it off.....

by glueing his pencils into his belt, or lifting the cover of his chalkbox and knotting the string inside, stick a tab of foam tape on the inside of his tape hook....:whistling


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## likeke34 (Dec 9, 2009)

thanks, i've read every single post and as to the peeing problem, it's not really a problem, i don't go even go 2X during work it's just in that case i was shocked cuz i waited til i seen my journeyman sitting on the gradall doing nothing and the boss was just walking around so i thought it was the perfect time...

i found some things out about this boss i'm working with... apparently there are people in my company (laborers) who refuse to work with him but they've been with the company for many many years so they can get away with it, i know i can't... also the other crew has been telling me some horror stories about him... 

also, the other crew's boss was his apprentice for 10+yrs and i can see it... the other boss is like a toned down version of him... what i don't get though, is if they hated it so much (they tell me how unreasonable he is and how he yells too much), then why do they act the exact same way to me... they're like dr jekyl and mr hyde... they'll be nice and calm one second then out of nowhere they're screaming profanities at me, and the things they say seem personal...

i vaguely remember a while back my other boss saying that only the strong survive and i need to pay my dues... i've been with them for half a year! the journeyman on my original crew said he'd be better off laid off then working with the boss i'm with now, but yet he goes and does the EXACT same things to me that he later told me was done to him...

for example, i made another thread about him putting a square up to my cuts and getting pissed cuz they were off just slightly under 1/16" (for forming)... he told me that the boss i'm with now was ridiculous cuz he'd do that to him for forming when it didn't matter (i don't think he remembered he did that to me when he told me the story)...

idk... it seems in my company the journeymen have this mentality that there needs to be yelling and only the tough survive... but the things they say seem personal and they've been working together for so long and i'm the only new guy so idk what's normal for them and what's not


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## likeke34 (Dec 9, 2009)

oh, and i know that i'm not the very best apprentice ever, i'm very inexperienced, i'm as green as they come but i do take initiative and try my best... i bought the 3 dvds made by larry haun on framing and i've watched them over and over... every paycheck i buy a new tool... i do hustle at work and the electrician in my company even told me that it's good the way i hustle...

technically i suck cuz i don't know squat atm... but they yell at me for stuff that has nothing to do with actual work... 

like when i first had to work with this boss... he told me where the place was and that i'd find it if i stay on the main road... i got to work half an hr early just be sure i find the place and as i was driving around i get a phone call and he's screaming at me telling me, "what is with you! pay attention next time! you passed the place!" and he hangs up... half an hour early now... and i swear, i'm not making this stuff up! my other boss laughed and told me he knew i was in trouble because he got a call half an hour before work asking for my number...

you cannot mishear anything with this boss... today, there was a gradall running on one side and the generator on the other and i could barely hear him so i asked him what the last thing he told me was and he started yelling at me like i was retarded... when he tells you something, you need to get it the first time or he'll chew you up...

the old crew taught me stuff so i took the yelling... they'd take the time to show me something and if i messed up, then they'd yell and i felt they got carried away with it... but with this boss, i'm not learning anything and he's always yelling so it makes it harder to tolerate...

the other day he told me to go to a different job site so i did... 5min before work he wasn't there so i called him up to ask if he wanted me to wait there and he was pissed saying he wanted me to help them load stuff to bring to the site i was at, but he TOLD ME to go to where i was first thing in the morning...

:sad:


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## curtis fulton (Jan 29, 2010)

sounds like your boss is un happy , so thats why he screams , and then again he could just be breaking you in to, just to see what your made of , i dont agree with his methods , just stick with it and youll be ok , when i ran a crew i new what my guys were capable of , so i didnt yell they learned by their mistakes and such , it when it they do it more then once well thats when i got a little pi$$y but just stick wiht youll be fine


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

My first few day's on a job site I was a little miffed that my boss didn't say please when he asked me for something......I got over it real quick.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I must say you are going through a little bit more than the hazing that is expected to occur after reading your last 2 posts. This guy sounds over the edge on the hazing ritual that normally occurs.

Keep your feelers out for new opportunities and jump when you feel the time is right.

These types however are (as much as it sucks to go through it) actually are providing you with the thick skin you need to succeed in this business and make a go of it on your own eventually.

Hang in there buddy! As I said before, DONT take anything he says personally. Be the better man!:thumbsup: You'll remember him in about 15 years, when you are long gone from his crap-- fondly. Just wait and see.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

If your description of events is accurate then you are NOT working for a professional outfit, you are working for a bunch of ass-hats. 
Some may know a thing or two so learn from them as you can then get out when you can. 
Others here seem to think this is a NORMAL bit of fun that they are poking at you but it is not. It sounds like a bunch of hapless, miserable, scared, nut-less wonders that want to impress their knuckle dragging, mouth-breathing, wanna-be R. Lee Ermy Gunnery sergeant [email protected]&%-tard boss. 
They are too scared of and unsure of their abilities as real carpenters to leave this turd behind to take a risk and go out on their own. 

Have a nice day.

Andy.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Ever see Tropic Thunder, with Robert Downey Jr.? Solarguy, don't go full retard.


:laughing::laughing::clap:


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

First one has to look inward. Confidence comes from knowing your abilities even if they are limited. Many people don't realize that they don't know anything or try to bluff through. My comments were harsh because nobody should be babied. It does them no good.

Some bosses just suck. Some jobs suck. What you have to remember is that it's all temporary. Right now the economy is bad and you just have to suffer through it. Feel lucky you have a job. Learn what you can so when another one opens up you can switch. I have been where you are. If you have a wife and kid, you are stuck and they know it.

Some bosses are picky. I'm picky. I don't want a cut off by a 16th. even if it's only a concrete form. When the concrete guy comes in, everything is exactly right for him. It makes his job easier. I don't like a super who isn't picky. You will learn much more in the end.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Ever see Tropic Thunder, with Robert Downey Jr.? Solarguy, don't go full retard.


You sound like the guy's boss. No, more like the second screamer who complains about the first screamer.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Ouch. That really hurts coming from the guy prancing around the job site, holding himself, saying "I must not pee pee, I must not pee pee".


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*been there, done that,,long time ago-*

Don't let it bother you, seriously,, as long as your doing your job and your trying - that's all you can do, as far as his mouth, stop knee jerking to it- don't take it "personally" - he sounds like a real A'' " hole" - get as much experience as you can- you sound like you really want to do well, so - let it roll off your back, and just do your job-:thumbsup: If it were me, and I saw that you were trying and putting in 100% , I would teach you with some dignity and give you the respect, as long as you deserve it,, there is no reason to be treated like that, you won't learn anything that way- screamers,,,,,,ahhhhhhhh, if you mess up, you may deserve it, but it doesn't sound that way from what you are saying- keep your chin up and move on, sounds like your boss has some issues and they are not yours:thumbsup:
Brian


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

I sense alot of projection. I get some whiney responses to my demeanor on the job. If you don't say please and ask some employees what they feel every two minutes they get their feelings hurt. It's probably normal because they haven't been out of the nursery long.


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

loneframer said:


> Sometimes you just have to laugh it off.....
> 
> by glueing his pencils into his belt, or lifting the cover of his chalkbox and knotting the string inside, stick a tab of foam tape on the inside of his tape hook....:whistling


You sir are a very mean man. I laughed so hard I scared the other people here. Thank you!


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

I started out on the biggest ******* crew you could imagine. The kind of crew where the know nothing know it all's wanted you to do it their way and if you have a better way to avoid their common sense mistakes then keep it to yourself. I had seen the owner/lead man get into fist fights on more than a few occasions with different employees. There was a lot of yelling and cursing headed towards not only the new guys but some that had been there for years too.

I didn't get yelled at very often. I took the initiative to stay ahead and learn the best I could. I worked hard and always tried to impress.

I have been on both sides, there are more than a few occasions where we have tortured some dummy that either didn't fit in with the dynamic of the crew or was a useless sack. If an employee really is trying and has potential then the hazing should be cut back.

If what you say about your work ethic is true, I would punch that dude right in the mouth and quit. It wasn't until I began working for a different company that I realized the ******** were teaching me wrong. I thought I knew my way around a home until I began working with quality craftsmen.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Ouch. That really hurts coming from the guy prancing around the job site, holding himself, saying "I must not pee pee, I must not pee pee".


Actually I'd be pissing by the foreman's truck. It does happen. How often does it happen? You don't get paid to pee. To the extreme, I've had guys first thing in the morning wipe out an outhouse, making it impossible for others to use. All the while getting paid for it. Other than a medical problem, there is no excuse. No, I don't hold myself because I have to pee. I just like doing it.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Your fixation on your employees pooping and peeing is disconcerting


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

likeke34 said:


> also, the other crew's boss was his apprentice for 10+yrs and i can see it... the other boss is like a toned down version of him... what i don't get though, is if they hated it so much (they tell me how unreasonable he is and how he yells too much), then why do they act the exact same way to me... they're like dr jekyl and mr hyde... they'll be nice and calm one second then out of nowhere they're screaming profanities at me, and the things they say seem personal...


They act that way because it was done to them therefore they do it to you. And/or because the "culture" of the company allows and encourages this. If the chief monkey does it then all the other lower rung monkey's will follow suit. 

As to making it personal... It's only personal if *YOU* let it become personal. If you realize that the guy(s) are a$$clowns and let the words just roll off your back then you win and they loose. If they get a rise out of you or force you to quit then they win. 

Here's a trick. Every time the screamer screams picture him doing it wearing a pink teddy from Victoria's Secret and stiletto heels or whatever else you need to picture to make yourself laugh on the inside and realize that what I said to you in an earlier post applies... "I don't mind because it doesn't matter." Trust me you can do this and you can make it through this. 



> i vaguely remember a while back my other boss saying that only the strong survive and i need to pay my dues... i've been with them for half a year! the journeyman on my original crew said he'd be better off laid off then working with the boss i'm with now, but yet he goes and does the EXACT same things to me that he later told me was done to him...


Read what you wrote one more time. Key words being PAY MY DUES and DOES THE EXACT SAME THINGS TO ME THAT HE LATER TOLD ME WAS DONE TO HIM. That means that you are going to get bent by him and everyone else just like they got bent. You are paying your dues. 



> idk... it seems in my company the journeymen have this mentality that there needs to be yelling and only the tough survive... but the things they say seem personal and they've been working together for so long and i'm the only new guy so idk what's normal for them and what's not


[/quote]

You are the new guy. Welcome aboard Boot. Plan on being a Boot/Rookie/F'ing New Guy/Worthless Know Nothing Retarded One Eyed One Armed Lazy *****bird for a while. Its just how things are done sometimes. 

Yes it sucks, yes it shouldn't be that way, yes we would all treat each other with mutual respect and kindness. And I would like a pony and a Mermaid. Sadly neither of us will get what we want.

You are facing several years of scut work, crap work details, and "low man on the totem pole work" as you gain the hours you need to move from apprentice to journeyman. You don't have to like it, you just have to do it.

You may find that after a year the hazing stops. Were I you I would plan to stick with this for another 18 months regardless of the beating you are taking. At that point you will have been at it for 2 years which will show that you're not some flake but actually stuck with it and tried to make it work then start looking for another opportunity. 

Do this by telling yourself that in 18 months you will be done one way or another with this and that you can do 18 months standing on your head because after dealing with this any other job/crew will be gravy in comparison. 

When you do start interviewing DO NOT talk about what an a$$hat your boss was or how you got screamed at. Talk about how you don't think you are moving forward in your career in terms of learning what you need to know to be the best you can at your trade and that's why you are talking to Joe's Garage Door and Carpentry Company because you heard that Joe is The Man when it comes to good OJT for people like you who are willing to bust their butts to do a good job and want to learn. Sure it might be total BS but it puts you in allot better light than coming off as someone who bad mouths their boss.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

_oops double post_


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

_



also, the other crew's boss was his apprentice for 10+yrs and i can see it... the other boss is like a toned down version of him... what i don't get though, is if they hated it so much , then why do they act the exact same way to me... 

Click to expand...

_Probably by the same psychological mechanisms that drive abused wives to smack the kids, or abused children to torture the dog, or those that suffered abuse as children to abuse their children when they (?) grow-up. 

If everyone at the company has been there years and years, you probably need to hit the road ASAP


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Your fixation on your employees pooping and peeing is disconcerting


As is your fixation on me.


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## CStanford (Feb 5, 2010)

likeke34 said:


> I just need to know if what i'm experiencing as an apprentice is normal because every day i come home just stressed out and can't stop thinking about work. Every day at work i'm busting my @ss off, all sweaty and exhausted and my boss is in my face screaming, "what the hell is wrong with you!" or "HURRY UP! C'MON!" and it's for things that i just can't help most of the time...
> 
> for example, today he left a shovel on the gradall and told me to grab the shovel (i didn't know where he put it). so i took a quick glance around for it and he immediately yelled, "it's on the damn gradall!" so i looked at the gradall that the journeyman who works with me is driving and not even 1second later my boss started screaming really loud, "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU! HUH?!"
> 
> ...


I worked as a rodbuster for a guy like that when I was about 20. I finally whipped his ass one day - broke his jaw and fractured his left occipital. I spent four months in jail for it back in the 1980s. 

Know what? I'd do it all over again. With pleasure.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Actually I'd be pissing by the foreman's truck. It does happen. How often does it happen? You don't get paid to pee. To the extreme, I've had guys first thing in the morning wipe out an outhouse, making it impossible for others to use. All the while getting paid for it. Other than a medical problem, there is no excuse. No, I don't hold myself because I have to pee. I just like doing it.


Your kidding right?

There is no excuse for taking a dump on company time? :laughing:

Have you ever tried to work while having to take a leak or pinch a loaf? Its so distracting that you can't possibly work any prudence or efficiency!


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Your kidding right?
> 
> There is no excuse for taking a dump on company time? :laughing:
> 
> Have you ever tried to work while having to take a leak or pinch a loaf? Its so distracting that you can't possibly work any prudence or efficiency!


Maybe they should start selling "depends" undergarments for construction workers who are not allowed to leak or drop deuces on company time.:laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

LoL 

Seriously, I would take a lot of yelling screaming and abuse but I'd draw the line at not being able to drop a load...or else I'd be on the dash-board of the truck beside my letter of resignation.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

There's nothing like the sight of feces and urine running down the side of your leg to impress a homeowner. They love that stuff!


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Inner & Chris :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

It builds up on company time... and it comes out on company time...


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