# Homeowner holding out final payment



## canadianwood (Jan 8, 2009)

Hi all, I am feeling a bit uneasy with the situation on this job.

A little background:

HO got hosed by a contractor in renovating his bathrooms. He paid this contractor 27K total to remodel his 2 baths and the guy absolutely destroyed the place, there were multiple MAJOR electrical, plumbing, structural problems. 

HO gets my number by referral, called me about a year ago. EVERYTHING had to go, restructure floor, repair hacked beams, etc. I didn't want the job because I _knew_ it was going to be painful for the HO to find out he got ripped by a hack and that it'll cost him double that to get it into shape again.

Fast forward to 3 months ago, I agreed to take the job based on these conditions:

-I'm not getting involved legally (HO is suing the hack)
-Cost plus (HO emphatically agreed that he wanted it all fixed)
-Everything must be gutted
-He sign a cost plus contract


Now, I gave him my final bill for 7K on Wednesday, he asked for a summary of all materials and labor hours, we agreed to meet today to trade a cheque for my papers. _ He was very good with payment up to this point. _

I talked to him today (Friday) and he explains that he doesn't want to pay until the job is done: we are waiting on glass shower doors and mirrors to be installed next week. However, I did not arrange the glass doors, he is paying the guy, I only provided the phone number.

Should I chill out and assume all is well?

Should I start preparing for the 'war'?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

You should have already prepared for 'war'. 

Got a contract?


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## canadianwood (Jan 8, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You should have already prepared for 'war'.
> 
> Got a contract?


Yes, have a contract.

I don't like to feel like I have to prepare for war with every client, I always get along good with them, including this guy...


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

I would at least give them the benefit of the doubt for a week, until as he said "'till the job is finished"
I am a sucker for believing in the general good of people, so far it has worked for me!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

canadianwood said:


> Yes, have a contract.
> 
> I don't like to feel like I have to prepare for war with every client, I always get along good with them, including this guy...


I guess that's why we're called _contractors_. Prepare for war, strive for peace.


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## nlgutters (Dec 18, 2007)

dave_dj1 said:


> I would at least give them the benefit of the doubt for a week, until as he said "'till the job is finished"
> I am a sucker for believing in the general good of people, so far it has worked for me!



I agree 

Don't start treating him like a criminal now.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> HO got hosed by a contractor in renovating his bathrooms. He paid this contractor 27K total to remodel his 2 baths and the guy absolutely destroyed the place,





> .... hack and that it'll* cost him double* that to get it into shape again.


 
He has been hosed once, the fix is costing nearly twice as much, and he has paid good until now. This far in the game, I think I would give him the benefit of a doubt, if it does not not drag out too long. That being said, I would not hesitate to file the proper papers to collect if necessary.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

If I understand correctly,you ARE done with the job and the HO has contracted with the glass guy for the doors/mirror. If that is true, it wouldn't seem you are involved and your contract should close out. Are you being paid additional fees associated with the glass guy? 

the only thing that comes to mind which may provide valid reasoning to him holding out, is that he (the HO) would like to know the glass guy is not going to say YOU screwed up and therefore can't install the glass doors resulting in additional cost...make sense?


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

It’s all about your contract, never allow either party to get ahead of work and payment schedule
*Article 5. Progress Payments*

*5.1* The Owner will make payments to the contractor pursuant to the attached construction draw schedule as work required by said schedule is satisfactorily completed. Owner shall make draw payments to contractor within *3* days after request by contractor. Should the owner fail to make payment, contractor may charge a penalty of *12%* annually upon the unpaid amount until paid.

*5.2* If payment is not received by the Contractor within *4* days after delivery of payment demand for work satisfactorily completed, contractor shall have the right to stop work or terminate the contract at his option. Termination by Contractor under the provisions of this paragraph shall not relieve the Owner of the obligations of payments to Contractor for that part of the work performed prior to such termination. Termination by Owner under the provisions of this paragraph shall not relieve the Owner of the obligations of payments to Contractor for that part of the work performed prior to such termination.


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## EES (Jan 4, 2010)

72chevy4x4 said:


> If I understand correctly,you ARE done with the job and the HO has contracted with the glass guy for the doors/mirror. If that is true, it wouldn't seem you are involved and your contract should close out. Are you being paid additional fees associated with the glass guy?
> 
> the only thing that comes to mind which may provide valid reasoning to him holding out, is that he (the HO) would like to know the glass guy is not going to say YOU screwed up and therefore can't install the glass doors resulting in additional cost...make sense?


I agree with this statement, and he has probably talked to other people who have advised him to hold off on the last payment until all the work is done. Unfortunetly he may be seeing you as a construction manager, and not a general contractor, and holding you liable for the glass guys satisfactory completion of the work. Especially if you put him in contact with him.


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## Taylor8 (Feb 17, 2010)

Considering what he's already been through, I think he's just waiting to make sure there aren't any unexpected problems. It sounds like you did a great job, took on a nightmare project, and really helped the HO out, so why not wait a week till everything is done then assert your need for payment. I'll bet you get referrals from this HO in the future.


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## canadianwood (Jan 8, 2009)

72chevy4x4 said:


> If I understand correctly,you ARE done with the job and the HO has contracted with the glass guy for the doors/mirror. If that is true, it wouldn't seem you are involved and your contract should close out. Are you being paid additional fees associated with the glass guy?
> 
> the only thing that comes to mind which may provide valid reasoning to him holding out, is that he (the HO) would like to know the glass guy is not going to say YOU screwed up and therefore can't install the glass doors resulting in additional cost...make sense?


Yes, my job is finished, no I'm not involved financially with the glass guy. I might have to hold fort for a week and play nice, give him the benefit of the doubt.

I have to agree with whats been said so far, although I am not involved with the glass guy, the HO is looking at me to ensure the job is complete, down to the glass doors. 

I am just a bit leary that he's going to complain about something else after the doors are in... I guess I'll have to cross that bridge if/when I get to it.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> the HO is looking at me to ensure the job is complete, down to the glass doors.


Strange situation if he is holding yuo responsible for something not in the scope of work covered by your contract. The glass people are sure not going to want to correcting them if you something done that is not your way. This is wrong regardless of how many times he has been taken to the cleaners. I think I might have to let him know in no uncertain terms, I have nothing to do with the glass. If I understand this correctly, you have fully fulfilled your contractual obligation and should not have to wait for the glass guy, lawn boy, mechanic, etc.. I'm thinking he is a little confused as to your part in this project. I feel like he may have good intentions but is wrong on this.
I think I might have somehow ask him what part of my contract have I not completed, and if he is holding me responsible for the glasswork.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

canadianwood said:


> Yes, my job is finished, no I'm not involved financially with the glass guy. I might have to hold fort for a week and play nice, give him the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I have to agree with whats been said so far, although I am not involved with the glass guy, the HO is looking at me to ensure the job is complete, down to the glass doors.
> 
> I am just a bit leary that he's going to complain about something else after the doors are in... I guess I'll have to cross that bridge if/when I get to it.


Could you tell us the rest of the story?

Doesn't make sense to me that the customer believes he has any right to not pay for your work if your work is done.

There is more to this based on you saying this :



> the HO is looking at me to ensure the job is complete, down to the glass doors.


If there is no more to the rest of the story I would be absolutely pissed at this point and the homeowner would be sure to know it, there would be threats of legal action, court and liens.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I am starting to lean towards Mike's logic on this. 
I would be wondering who has been kicking the money out for this work. If he paid the first time, and as you say, the fix is costing twice as much, I'd want to know he still has the money to finsh paying the third time so to speak. Bad things happen to good people, but he should not be passing the buck onto innocent people trying to fix his problem and making a living in the process.

You did say you had a contract right? No mention of glass in it right? If this is the case, I do not understand how he can justifiably hold you up if you are finshed with the scope of work laid out in the contract, no matter what he has been through with others.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I think I'm gonna try this idea.

Take my truck to the mechanic for an oil change. "Jim, I'm not gonna pay you until I get the gas tank filled up next week........"

Empty my cart at the checkout of the grocery store. When the clerk tells me the total, I'll just say "Plastic, please. And I'm not going to pay for this food until it's cooked and sitting on my table."

When my cable bills comes next time, I'll just drop a note in there saying "Sorry, I'm still making payments on my 92-inch plasma. Once it's paid for, then I'll include a check."


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## canadianwood (Jan 8, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Could you tell us the rest of the story?
> 
> Doesn't make sense to me that the customer believes he has any right to not pay for your work if your work is done.
> 
> ...


The story:

I gave him the number for my glass guy, thats it. He arranged C-TOPS and all the bath fixtures. I brought in my company, plumber, electricians and a drywaller, everything was documented and inspected. I don't know what other background I can give.

In my opinion, he feels vulnerable from the last guy who skinned him and I think he feels the need to throw some weight around. He is relatively intelligent and understands that by dangling the carrot in front of me, I'll be calling the glass guy Monday morning to put pressure on him to get that stuff in.

A bit more background to this story is that he is very litigious: 
He is suing the original contractor (I would too) and is also involved in some other disputes that will end up in court. He isn't a lawyer or judge but needless to say, he isn't afraid of legal actions, leins, etc. Hence, by him not fearing litigation, a big part of my arsenal is gone, I don't have any 'legal' recourse that'll scare him but usually works on most people (i.e. liens, small claims court, etc)--The threat of legal action is usually very convincing for most folks.

I agree with what people have said so far about my contractual obligations have been fulfilled and thus, payment is due. I will bring this to his attention on Monday. 

I am prepared to call the lawyer next week as well, although I don't want to go that route. But its better than my father's method of going to the door with a couple of his meathead Polish friends. On second thought, my father has never had anyone holdout on him....


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## canadianwood (Jan 8, 2009)

boman47k said:


> I am starting to lean towards Mike's logic on this.
> I would be wondering who has been kicking the money out for this work. If he paid the first time, and as you say, the fix is costing twice as much, I'd want to know he still has the money to finsh paying the third time so to speak. Bad things happen to good people, but he should not be passing the buck onto innocent people trying to fix his problem and making a living in the process.
> 
> You did say you had a contract right? No mention of glass in it right? If this is the case, I do not understand how he can justifiably hold you up if you are finshed with the scope of work laid out in the contract, no matter what he has been through with others.


He's got the money. He has 2 new trucks outside, a new car, a $50K hotrod, a custom chopper and another house. I am pretty sure he can scrounge up $7 K from somewhere.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

canadianwood said:


> He's got the money. He has 2 new trucks outside, a new car, a $50K hotrod, a custom chopper and another house. I am pretty sure he can scrounge up $7 K from somewhere.


:laughing::laughing:

You've seen his toys. Now ask to see the money.

Toys are not near as impressive as disposable cash, imo.


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## Taylor8 (Feb 17, 2010)

canadianwood said:


> He's got the money. He has 2 new trucks outside, a new car, a $50K hotrod, a custom chopper and another house. I am pretty sure he can scrounge up $7 K from somewhere.


That many toys and he's not afraid of calling his lawyer, is he a hells angel?


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