# can i skim over bad walkway



## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

Michael Olding said:


> Excellent point lukachuki and I couldn't agree more.
> 
> Give the customer WHAT HE WANTS after you explain to him WHAT HE NEEDS.
> 
> ...


 If a man wants a hotdog instead of a steak and you sell food would you refuse the sale because steak is better? I used to get hung up on this all the time, but now not so much.

Inform the HO, write good contracts and give them what they want and/or are willing to pay for. If you don't your competitor will.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I had a contractor call me today to ask what kind of epoxy to use between a pool wall and decking that had separated. His plan was to fill the joint with epoxy, re-lay the flag and hope for the best. I told him the right way, but I am 90% sure he will not do it. My last words to him were, "Don't warranty your work if you do it like that (epoxy)".

I am not of the opinion that there is good, better, best for any given company. Among companies, sure there is. You have to decide what category you want your company to be in: Good, Better, Best.


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## tazmanian (Jul 22, 2010)

i do beleive that when dealing with people you have to give them options........especially when dealing with their money. like when offering cabinets......you have pressboard, ply, and solid, good better and best......i think it is the same with even simple fixes...........everyone has to go crazy in their own way.....that is why baskin robbins makes 31wonderful flavors...........:thumbup:


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Tscarborough said:


> I had a contractor call me today to ask what kind of epoxy to use between a pool wall and decking that had separated. His plan was to fill the joint with epoxy, re-lay the flag and hope for the best. I told him the right way, but I am 90% sure he will not do it. My last words to him were, "Don't warranty your work if you do it like that (epoxy)".
> 
> I am not of the opinion that there is good, better, best for any given company. Among companies, sure there is. You have to decide what category you want your company to be in: Good, Better, Best.


Let me clarify a bit.

This conversation gets a bit complicated because it is so easy to confuse the issues. There are aesthetic good, better and bests and structural good, better, and bests. On the aesthetic side is where most of my HO conversations take place. Lady do you want gray concrete, integral color, acid stain, stamped, or a real stone patio? I don't think anyone would have issues offering a customer these options and their various price points. It's good to offer both hot dogs and steak, just make sure both of them are all beef.

As I see it the problem begins when contractors such as ourselves compromise on the structural side whether its new construction and/or remediation. In the example Tsc brings up, the contractor is playing with fire by charging to rearrange the chairs on the HO's Titanic. As TSC said, it is when making these type of judgement calls that determines what kind of company we want to be. I would agree even though it sounds like i'm talking in circles because of my brick expansion joint trick. I only offer the brick trick when the situation calls for it and I think it will work, otherwise its usually rip out and replace. The truth is generally speaking, when it comes to structural recommendation there should only be one option and that is Best. 

Right now I have a guy who is trying to talk me down on price for doing a brick veneer over block retaining wall. To me the decision is easy, and i'm willing to lose the job because I know that you don't cut corners when it comes to building this type of retaining wall. Nobody wants an expensive sidewalk. The point is, that when it comes to dealing with building things right, and recommending solutions for structural issues we should act the professional and only give solutions that will work. This is where the rubber meets the road when it comes to deciding what kind of company you or me or we want to be.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Just to be clear, I am not talking about offering Formica, Corian, or granite, I am talking about will last until you collect the check, may last for a month or a year, or is done the right way.


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## Michael Olding (Aug 5, 2008)

You know I have always pushed my limits and boundaries as a contractor with untested ideas, different approaches or new techniques. Honestly some didn't quite work out quite like I had planned and I paid for it because I replaced it and took care of the problem. 

Having said that there are also many situations in which a customer doesn't want a complete rebuild, they don't want to replace an entire driveway or patio, they usually doesn't want to strip the front of her home of poorly installed 'lick and stick' that's failing with water infiltration issues or more common in my area, replace the 60 - 80 year old stone retaining wall that is starting to lean and bow. 

Would replacement be the recommended path? Many times it is BUT... it is not my money to spend. My purpose is to consult and provide options not make the decisions for my clients. 

Are there times I walk away? More than you care to know... but not always... as long as I know the customer has a clear understanding of what the alternative solutions are and the expected longevity of the repair recommendations. Sometimes the customer is just looking for some peace of mind for a few years until they get the next big bonus, or that new raise they are expecting... then they can 'do it right'. Who am I to judge whether they are right or wrong.

One other point of this 'structurally sound' stuff. If this was true then why is everyone and their brother across this country throwing up 'glue on stone' like there's not tomorrow? I do lots of repairs and I see plenty of 30 year old installations that are faded, spalling and leaking with rotting sheathing and framing... hardly what one would call durable.

I'll tell you why. Some people can't afford any more. That's right they don't have the money to build with real limestone or real stone masons, hardly a new idea. I know these types of conversation can get real sticky and I don't mean to raise any hackles. 

Truly though if Ford wanted to they could build a truck to last 50 years but there would be few with the money who could afford buy it.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Just remember that when and if it goes to court or arbitration YOU are the pro and should have known the "fix" wouldnt last and you might end up replacing that 17 yr old walkway on YOUR dime.

Food for thought.

i have Ho tell me on 1920's baths with 2 inches of concrete on walls and 4 inches on floor how they dont think it is neccessary for a full gut, my reply is simple. 

Are you a professional contractor? No, well I am and that is my professional opinion. :clap:


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## Raywill49 (Jul 30, 2010)

Please take the time and give them your recommendations (and why), and the options (in final proposal form) in writing. Review it very carefully and insist they intial/sign each proposal as accept or reject. When the half ass job goes bad in 3 years, they will be calling you.

For all you baby boomers: "Pay me know or pay me later" 

SOAP BOX MOMENT: We are professionals, but are percieved as one rung higher than used car salespersons. The perception difference maker is a professionally presented proposal. No one can complain, you will set the tone for the job and gain more repeat buisiness when you establish expectations early, communicate clearly, and over deliver. 
Off the soap box now.


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