# Question on block lintel



## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

I have this set of plans, and normally I dont do commercial, but I'd like to start expanding a bit, and start doing more of this. 

The blueprint here has a call for block lintels 8x18, and shows what looks like an I beam of sorts to be used? Am I seeing that correctly? They are for openings for a car wash.


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## QCCI (Jan 28, 2013)

Yep, looks like W8x18 I-Beam lintel. Typically on commercial projects the mason will not include the cost of lintels in your bid. You will install them but not furnish them. The steel fabricator/supplier will furnish all steel on the project....lintels, bollards, embeds, structural, joists, decking, etc

If the lintels are over a certain weight, then the iron workers will install


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

W8X18 is a steel beam term.

I don't quite know what to make of the detail as shown, it makes no sense.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Thank you for the quick response!


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

tgeb said:


> W8X18 is a steel beam term.
> 
> I don't quite know what to make of the detail as shown, it makes no sense.


Same to me.


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## QCCI (Jan 28, 2013)

It is very typical for overhead door opening. There may be another page with lintel details. But most likely it will have a plate welded to it at the bottom.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

It would be so much easier if people used precast beams up north.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

That is a very common detail. Couple ways this detail can go depending on the steel. The height and width of the steel and if there is a flange welded to the bottom. 
Assuming the steel is 8" tall. And you're using regular CMU. Order some 2" or 3" block, depending on what will fit. Lay the block on each side. If using a decorative block and depending on how many you need. Cut the block into slabs.
If the steel is 16" talk double your order. If it is 12" tall. Lay one course of the slabs on either side and a course of KOBB upside down for the second course. Also be aware that there is mostly likely Nelson studs welded to the top to add additional reinforced cells above the opening.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

JBM said:


> It would be so much easier if people used precast beams up north.


Traditional precast isn't readily available is very long lengths in many areas. Around here 144" is the longest length stocked at yards. I've used the precast bond beams in 24' lengths but they had to be shipped from the DC area. Steel is readily available and not hard to work with.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Also if there is additional reinforced cells above the opening. Pay particular attention to isolating those cells so that the grout does not run into the beam and blow out block.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Brickie is spot on. Flashing these details can be critical as well.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

NJ Brickie said:


> Traditional precast isn't readily available is very long lengths in many areas. Around here 144" is the longest length stocked at yards. I've used the precast bond beams in 24' lengths but they had to be shipped from the DC area. Steel is readily available and not hard to work with.


Of coarse, thats the problem , its not available. It is so much easier to pop them in.


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## cdkyle (Jul 12, 2009)

NJ Brickie said:


> That is a very common detail. Couple ways this detail can go depending on the steel. The height and width of the steel and if there is a flange welded to the bottom.
> Assuming the steel is 8" tall. And you're using regular CMU. Order some 2" or 3" block, depending on what will fit. Lay the block on each side. If using a decorative block and depending on how many you need. Cut the block into slabs.
> If the steel is 16" talk double your order. If it is 12" tall. Lay one course of the slabs on either side and a course of KOBB upside down for the second course. Also be aware that there is mostly likely Nelson studs welded to the top to add additional reinforced cells above the opening.


We call those "soaps." You will have to lay those one day, then let them set overnight before grouting. Usually, we would lay one course of the soaps, the turn a bond beam upside down for the second course. Still allows access for grouting.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Ask the architect/engineer to review the drawing and consult with his Masonry "Rabbi" 
That detail is ca ca.

Ungrouted soaps on the W beam, # 5 bars 2-4" above W-beam, Nelson studs as needed drive on.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

JBM said:


> Of coarse, thats the problem , its not available. It is so much easier to pop them in.


Can a precast lintel be engineered at 20'+ lengths and still be easy to pop in? I'm only guessing, but I would imagine very long lengths would increase the height and width. I'm wondering what the pounds per foot would be compared to steel. Does the ease of using precast go away at very long lengths?
I do prefer using precast for most openings. But I think it has it limitations.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

cdkyle said:


> We call those "soaps." You will have to lay those one day, then let them set overnight before grouting. Usually, we would lay one course of the soaps, the turn a bond beam upside down for the second course. Still allows access for grouting.


Letting them sit overnight is ideal. But not always possible and there are ways around it.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

NJ Brickie said:


> Can a precast lintel be engineered at 20'+ lengths and still be easy to pop in? I'm only guessing, but I would imagine very long lengths would increase the height and width. I'm wondering what the pounds per foot would be compared to steel. Does the ease of using precast go away at very long lengths?
> I do prefer using precast for most openings. But I think it has it limitations.


17'4" are popped in for garages down south without much fuss but 20 foot length not too sure about. 

But for commercial 10 foot bays it would be so much easier and a better final product me thinks.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

NJ Brickie, NEVER seen the soaps grouted or re-bars place inside soaps on a W-Beam. Would you weld Nelson studs to both sides of the bottom of top flange & the top of the top flange for bonding?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Soap it in, soft joint above.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

JBM said:


> 17'4" are popped in for garages down south without much fuss but 20 foot length not too sure about.
> 
> But for commercial 10 foot bays it would be so much easier and a better final product me thinks.


I was thinking about this a little more. I haven't run into very many situations where having longer (20'+) would be a useful option. The larger opening are mostly on exterior walls. Which is a decorative block or has a veneer 90% of the time.


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