# doing first commercial tile job need help. PLEASE



## Houston's (Nov 30, 2006)

I am bidding on 1000sf of floor tile (prob. 18x18)and 560sf of wall tile in the restrooms. All of the tile is going to be layed stright and the wall tile is going to the ceiling.

Its going to be an auto shop, what is your thoughts on texture of the tile?

thinking of doing this tile on the floor. the 00700 color
shawfloors.com/ceramic-flooringDetails/$2.00_-_2.49/Brown/Ceramic_Tile/Rock_12_CS287-00005

and this on the walls the 00300 the dark one in the color menu
shawfloors.com/ceramic-flooringDetails/$2.00_-_2.49/Brown/Ceramic_Tile/Rock_12_CS287-00005

Thanks Houston Redmond
Baton Rouge la

http://www.houstonsbrservices.com/

:notworthy


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I am doing a large truck service center job in a couple of weeks. Sounds like the same kind of situation. I am doing a bathroom on the main level, a lunch room, change room, and bathroom on the 2nd level. Also doing the stairs leading up to the 2nd level. Using 13x13 tile on floors, stalls, behind urinal, and for a shower. 
The gc of this project specified a glazed porcelain tile - matte finish with some texture. 
Because it is a garage with mechanics walking around with wrenches sticking out of their pockets, we discussed using a through colour porcelain tile- in case any were chipped by falling tools. In the end they stuck with their first choice.

More importantly - is this a new garage or existing? 

The project I will be doing is existing and the concrete slabs have been painted - although most of the paint is gone. As you can imagine, their is a lot of oil and grease in the concrete. I included in my price a fair bit of prep time. Scraping paint, degreasing the floors, running a floor machine over the surface to rough it up.
We are (at the gc's request) also going to prime the concrete prior to tile installation.

The other thing I suggested was to use an epoxy grout vs. sanded.
The gc and customer liked the idea - just not the extra cost!
Going to use Mapei Opti Colour (for the first time)

Good luck with your bid. Just remember (if I may say) I probably got this job more for the fact that I explained to them what needed to be done to ensure a good installation. They had 2 other prices on the job - both guys didn't utter a word about how they would prep the surface, what type of materials they would use, etc. Both guys were cheaper than I was.


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## Houston's (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks for some more ideas!!!
yes, it is a new building.:thumbup:


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

That doesn't look like a very good tile to me, and in a commercial job.

Jaz


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

Jaz did you notice the "glaze hardness" of that tile, they say it is a 
"6"? I don't know that I've ever seen glaze hardness referred to in advertising. Are they stating the "PEI grade" when they say glaze hardness?


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## Houston's (Nov 30, 2006)

He is wanting to keep it around 1.00 for the tile. I can get it for 1.14.
this is going in to the office and waiting rooms.
he is cheep.. 
What is a good sf. labor for this?


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

Bud Cline said:


> Jaz did you notice the "glaze hardness" of that tile, they say it is a
> "6"? I don't know that I've ever seen glaze hardness referred to in advertising. Are they stating the "PEI grade" when they say glaze hardness?


Hey Bud, they are using the MOH scale with 10 being the hardest (diamond). A 6 would be OK for residential light to medium use, but for commercial I believe the minimum is 7 or 8.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

Since when is the MOH's Scale used to describe ceramic tile? Why use it in advertising? Hell the general public isn't that educated on the subject to begin with.

I ain't buyin' that suggestion so far. Where does it say that 6 represents the MOH's scale?


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## R&D Tile (Apr 5, 2005)

http://www.ctioa.org/reports/fr75.html

http://www.cwtile.com/selectingtile.htm

Moh’s Hardness scale
The Moh’s scale is slightly different to PEI Ratings as it usually relates to unglazed tiles. It measures surface hardness (scratch resistance). The Moh’s scale is 1 to 10. The scales' increments are common minerals or compounds to allow easy reference, for example on the Moh’s scale:

1. = Talc
2. = Gypsum
3. = Calcite
4. = Fluorite
5. = Apatite
6. = Orthoclase
7. = Quartz
8. = Topaz
9. = Corundum
10. = Diamond

An unglazed tile cannot have a PEI classification since there is no glaze to test. A glazed tile will have a PEI rating, but can also have a Moh’s classification e.g. a typical PEI III tile may have a Moh’s hardness of 7+ the same hardness as Quartz (which is harder than steel, meaning that if a steel implement is dragged across a glazed tile which is rated PEI III or higher then the tile will not scratch, the steel will wear instead.)



But I agree, never see it used on boxes of tile or in advertising a tile, just the PEI rating.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

They use the MOH scale rating of 6 when they are embarrassed to give a PEI rating. Six is fair at best. May be OK for your kitchen, but a commercial installation? 

Hey window guy, protect yourself and the client, don't install junk. If you're licensed, you should have learned that it is your duty to use products and methods that are proper for the intended use. 

Believe me this tile is JUNK! IMO. $1.14 YIKES! :no:

Jaz


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

JazMan said:


> They use the MOH scale rating of 6 when they are embarrassed to give a PEI rating. Six is fair at best. May be OK for your kitchen, but a commercial installation?
> 
> Hey window guy, protect yourself and the client, don't install junk. If you're licensed, you should have learned that it is your duty to use products and methods that are proper for the intended use.
> 
> ...




This is called mis specified product.

It would fall back on the architect, GC or Home Owner. Who ever specified that tile.

The tile setter is responsible for installing it to standard, not specifying.

My take is to BID it high, look them in the eye, and watch them buy.. Or find someone else cheaper.


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## Houston's (Nov 30, 2006)

I think i will pass this up.. The guy has a lot of money but he said he wants the tile on the lower end of $1.00.:sad:


Floordude im with you on that one.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

People that want to buy cheap tile like that are often the first to blame others if the tiles wear out prematurely, cracks, are difficult to maintain or off size, out of square etc. Since he probably frequents the box boxes, he now thinks a $1 is average for tiles? 

I can picture this tile in my mind. It's made from a brown or red bisque, fairly porous light weight, probably made in Brazil, Columbia or there abouts? The manufacturer sells it for about $3-$3.50 a m2 fob their plant? Add freight, duty and a few other costs and it's sold real cheap. Why? Because that is all it's worth. Good quality stylish porcelains start at about $12-16.00 per m2 at the factory in Italy, Spain, Portugal. 

It sounded to me that Houston was searching for the tiles and proposed these. Maybe not? Regardless, makes no sense to pay someone to install cheap $1 tiles. 

Jaz


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## Houston's (Nov 30, 2006)

Nope going cheep just makes the job harder on me.. and yeah i think it is red..lol

Have yall ever had any problems with masterblend thinset and schluter kirdi?:blink: The masterblend never cured 





JazMan said:


> People that want to buy cheap tile like that are often the first to blame others if the tiles wear out prematurely, cracks, are difficult to maintain or off size, out of square etc. Since he probably frequents the box boxes, he now thinks a $1 is average for tiles?
> 
> I can picture this tile in my mind. It's made from a brown or red bisque, fairly porous light weight, probably made in Brazil, Columbia or there abouts? The manufacturer sells it for about $3-$3.50 a m2 fob their plant? Add freight, duty and a few other costs and it's sold real cheap. Why? Because that is all it's worth. Good quality stylish porcelains start at about $12-16.00 per m2 at the factory in Italy, Spain, Portugal.
> 
> ...


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

Houston, 

Thanks for the PM, lets continue here. 

From what I understand you used masterBlend to install Kerdi to your 'mud' shower floor right? You then install the floor tiles over the Kerdi with the same thinset, right? So, you say it didn't set up? HUH. Old thinset is my first guess.

Jaz


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## Houston's (Nov 30, 2006)

it is on the wall. Did not even get to the tile part, it would not bond to the kerdi. I used the schluter shower pan.
the masterblind was 10 months old.(from stamp on bag)


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## Houston's (Nov 30, 2006)

Ok guys! I sold him on a high traffic porcelain tile.. They claim it is the 2nd to strongest.
Thanks for schooling me:clap:


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