# Just starting and already hate dealing with costumers



## BigReds (Feb 27, 2009)

This one customer had called me in to their office. I show up and she gives me a small list of things to fix at one of their properties. They buy homes and rent them out.

One thing on the list was to look into a light switch that when they (renters) turn on and off the light in their kid's room, they get a shock.

I immediately told her that she should get an electrician in for that.
2 reasons for saying that, is that 1. Old house using Knob & tube wiring.
2. I'm not an electrician. (but have knowledge and experience in electrical)

Her respond was, i don't wanna hear about hiring an electrician. So i said, i will take a look and see if it's something simple to fix.

That same day, i went and picked up the materials for the stuff on the list but did not pick up light switch as i don't know what kind of switch its using and or if it just needs to be replaced.

Next day i went to the house and did the repairs. I then asked the lady renting the place which room the light switch is shocking her. She shows me the room and says its not shocking, it just won't shut off the light. She then tells me there is also another switch that's not working.

I checked the light switch that wont turn off and find that its just the toggle switch that needs to be replaced.

I then check the 2nd switch and find that its a dimmer switch that had sparked on her and never worked again. When i checked, i noticed burnt marks on the neutral and that the neutral had no marret on it and that it just had HOCKEY TAPE rapped around it.

So i told the lady that i would be back next day with 2 new switches.
I go next day to install both switches, lady renting place tells me that to only do the switch in kids room because the owners don't want that 2nd switch fixed. So i did just that and left.

I gave the owner the invoice today and she complains about the travel cost on invoice. So i explained to her that i had to go to suppliers twice to get materials for the job. She argues with me and says that i should of just got to the house see what i needed and then go get the material. Saving 1 trip. So to make her happy i deducted $40.

Then she tells me that she wants the 2nd switch fixed and that she had told me that there was 2 switches to be fixed. According to the list she gave me, there is nothing saying 2 switches and it clearly only states to fix light switch in kid's room.

I went back today and replaced that 2nd switch. Invoicing her for it!!

How should i of handled that differently? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

Sounds like you did the right thing to me. Now lets see if she pays the bill.


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

I never reduce the bill. It states in my contract that they signed saying if they don't pay a lien will be placed on the property. After I remind them of this they pay.


----------



## BigReds (Feb 27, 2009)

naptown CR: Thanks, i hope so too. She did cut me a check today when i went to their office to do a repair, She needed her boss to sign the check. Her boss was out on lunch. I seen the check, i couldn't wait so I just told her to mail me it.

Cole82: It wasn't a contract job otherwise she would of not gotten away with it.


----------



## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Seems to me after you gave her $40 back she decided to use the extra cash to fix the 2nd switch.

Investors/house flippers = cheapskate client.

Been there done that...:no:

Good luck.


----------



## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Instead of invoicing her--make them pay for the work that day..works for me...


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Big Reds I would recomend that you start useing one.
Every job I do no mater how small is with a contract. I did a job where this ladies door automaticly locked as she shut it. She wanted me to change the door handle to one that didn't do this. When I went there I saw it had a selector button on the jam side. Pushed the button and was done. I had a contract for that 1hour minimum hourly rate. All I did was show up push a button and collect money.


----------



## Jordy3738 (Dec 11, 2008)

We must get paid for our time. It is very important to always have a contract with every customer in writing. 

No matter if it is only a couple of light switches, everyone needs to understand what they are responsible for.

If we don't cover ourselves with contracts people will always manipulate and try to pay less.

I even add in time for writing the contract, why not it's work right?


----------



## Virginia Built (Nov 8, 2007)

*I'll Second Darwin*

All the leads I've worked for investor properties and flippers basically ended up with me walking from the appointment declining to bid. All wanted to circumvent the code or use substandard materials to save money.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Get used to it and always CYA!

There are many resources on this site. Use them.


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)




----------



## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

That's hilarious........

What line item is that in the estimate...? I need to add it to mine.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

The difference between a successful Company and a Company that kicks some Royal Arse, is the ability to MANAGE the Customer. 

Learn how to "rise to the occasion" through listening and Diplomacy whilst retaining CONTROL of the situation at hand. 

The simplest way to achieve this is to KNOW THY OWN SELF and set personal standards that you are comfortable with. 

NEVER compensate, compromise or bastardize that which you believe to be important and true.

And lastly...........Real Estate persons of ANY caliber are the WORST clients. They think they know it all. They think they are superior. They think they are entitled. They think they own you because they are going to give you money.


----------



## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*Well said!*



MALCO.New.York said:


> The difference between a successful Company and a Company that kicks some Royal Arse, is the ability to MANAGE the Customer.
> 
> Learn how to "rise to the occassion" through listening and Diplomacy whilst retaining CONTROL of the situation at hand.
> 
> ...


I could not have made this more clear. They will give you more work than you can handle as long as you never make a profit. A good one is very rare.


----------



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

Cole82 said:


> Big Reds I would recomend that you start useing one.
> Every job I do no mater how small is with a contract. I did a job where this ladies door automaticly locked as she shut it. She wanted me to change the door handle to one that didn't do this. When I went there I saw it had a selector button on the jam side. Pushed the button and was done. I had a contract for that 1hour minimum hourly rate. All I did was show up push a button and collect money.


I am sorry but this is wrong on many levels. And we wonder why the general public is skeptical and thnk of us as a bunch of A holes


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

naptown CR said:


> I am sorry but this is wrong on many levels. And we wonder why the general public is skeptical and thnk of us as a bunch of A holes



Every job has a "Trip Minimum"! So this is not wrong.

How should this have been handled differently????

For Free??? 1/2 price????


----------



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

naptown CR said:


> I am sorry but this is wrong on many levels. And we wonder why the general public is skeptical and thnk of us as a bunch of A holes


After re reading a minimum trip charge was in order. However will this be a repeat customer or a one time thing. Many times we lose sight of the long term for the immediate gain


----------



## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*It depends on whether you are the owner or employee*



naptown CR said:


> After re reading a minimum trip charge was in order. However will this be a repeat customer or a one time thing. Many times we lose sight of the long term for the immediate gain


As the owner, I am often willing to do a one-second job for free even when I have an hour of travel time, but I cannot expect an employee to drive around for free. The employee must charge the customer, or I have to pay the employee from my own pocket, plus the cost of gas, etc.


----------



## hbelectric (Oct 8, 2007)

For starters, you need to find a good electrician, plumber, HVAC guy etc...


----------



## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

Yeap all clients are not equall. Some are just not worth working for. Especially ones trying to micromanage you and tell you how to do your job to save her money. wtf


----------



## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

BigReds said:


> Edit: I charged her .94 cents for the switch


it cost you $1.05 to write 'switch......$0.94' on your invoice:whistling


----------



## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*That sounds reasonable*



BigReds said:


> I charged her $217.22. supply & install thermostat, Caulk kitchen sink and bathroom sink, replace washer to exterior hose bib and replace 1 light switch.
> 
> I deducted $40 off because she was arguing over the travel cost.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are being reasonable and at least you are asking for opinions. Every business has problems and as an owner we get paid to solve the problems. So, it helps to know you are getting paid to solve problems so you don't get upset with customers.


----------



## Handymanservice (Mar 1, 2009)

If you hate your customers, you're going to have a tough time in business. You have to decide to "love" dealing with your customers, even if you hate to. It is what you do now.

If you don't want to do that, take a look at Yellow Van Handyman, they handle all of the "business" side stuff and let you concentrate on just doing the work. It is a franchise and might make sense for you.

Hopefully you will start to enjoy working with people, it can be rewarding. All Realtor's, Property Manager's and Flipper's are not bad, I make a great living dealing with them daily. Just spend time building a relationship with them and be a resource to them, and they will treat you right.

Above all, always be professional, always charge for what you do, not what you don't do, and charge them full price.

I do not agree with one comment _"Never deduct, instead say you found something else, and you took care of it and if anything charge extra",_ but that is how that operation works, I base mine differently.

Keep learning and excel at this business, it can be good to you.


----------



## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

You may want to read an article on how to negotiate effectively.


----------



## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

mahlere said:


> can you expand this statement? *1200what ?* $? i'm guessing you don't do much service/handyman work:laughing:


 
*Dollars-USD*

minumum job is 1200. when i started in 1990 it was 250. for the hanyman division.


----------



## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Crock said:


> *Dollars-USD*
> 
> minumum job is 1200. when i started in 1990 it was 250. for the hanyman division.


ok...you have to elaborate more...what do you provide for $1200? 

say i need a door replaced...simple wood, interior....$1200?


----------



## Neilgal (May 2, 2009)

*Your answer is right on the money.*

:thumbsup:


MALCO.New.York said:


> The difference between a successful Company and a Company that kicks some Royal Arse, is the ability to MANAGE the Customer.
> 
> Learn how to "rise to the occasion" through listening and Diplomacy whilst retaining CONTROL of the situation at hand.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

mahlere said:


> ok...you have to elaborate more...what do you provide for $1200?
> 
> say i need a door replaced...simple wood, interior....$1200?


Yes, anything. Door knob, squeeky hinge, doorbell not working. I developed this technique about 20 years ago after I got tired of driving all over town chasing a buck.

What I do if the call is a "few items" then we simply say that we have a $1200 minimum on all jobs. If they don't want to drop the coin then we move on to the next call. Nice thing about it is don't have to start the truck and drive twenty miles to be told that they can't afford us.

If they want a door replaced...simple wood, interior, it is twelve hundred. This is our minmum for any job.


----------



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

Crock said:


> Yes, anything. Door knob, squeeky hinge, doorbell not working. I developed this technique about 20 years ago after I got tired of driving all over town chasing a buck.
> 
> What I do if the call is a "few items" then we simply say that we have a $1200 minimum on all jobs. If they don't want to drop the coin then we move on to the next call. Nice thing about it is don't have to start the truck and drive twenty miles to be told that they can't afford us.
> 
> If they want a door replaced...simple wood, interior, it is twelve hundred. This is our minmum for any job.


not doin much handyman stuff eh


----------



## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Crock said:


> Yes, anything. Door knob, squeeky hinge, doorbell not working. I developed this technique about 20 years ago after I got tired of driving all over town chasing a buck.
> 
> What I do if the call is a "few items" then we simply say that we have a $1200 minimum on all jobs. If they don't want to drop the coin then we move on to the next call. Nice thing about it is don't have to start the truck and drive twenty miles to be told that they can't afford us.
> 
> If they want a door replaced...simple wood, interior, it is twelve hundred. This is our minmum for any job.


how's that work out for you? seriously? phone quote, $1200....


----------



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

BigReds said:


> How should i of handled that differently? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


I assume you bid on time and material? Don't include travel time on the invoice. Charge her for it, just don't write it in there. I can see how looking at travel time on a bill could irritate someone. 

Write down what you did and the time it took you to complete everything, think of travel time as being part of the tasks that you did. But tell her before you start that you charge by the hour which includes going to the store and getting materials, you can say you usually like to make two trips. You get what you know you're going to need first, then you make a second trip later for everything that was unexpected. I usually plan out what I need during the day, then go to the store the next morning before I arrive on site. That way it only takes a little extra time and shouldn't be noticeable to them.


----------



## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

mahlere said:


> how's that work out for you? seriously? phone quote, $1200....


Very well, I have been using it for 20 odd years.I started the min at $250 and raised it incrementally over the years.

It's similar to spraying for crabgrass. We have a certain breed of customer that we want to service and if you don't meet the criteria we want to know right away. This is a good way to find out.

If you get busy sometime try it. Their response will open your mind up to a world of possibilities you never dreamed existed.


----------



## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Crock said:


> Very well, I have been using it for 20 odd years.I started the min at $250 and raised it incrementally over the years.
> 
> It's similar to spraying for crabgrass. We have a certain breed of customer that we want to service and if you don't meet the criteria we want to know right away. This is a good way to find out.
> 
> If you get busy sometime try it. Their response will open your mind up to a world of possibilities you never dreamed existed.


yeah, i'll give it a shot when I get busy....

what do people get for $1200? 1 man? 2 men? a whole herd?

if they have 5 items that take 5 man hours, is that covered by the $1200? or would there be an increase for the extra 4 items?


----------



## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

mahlere said:


> yeah, i'll give it a shot when I get busy....
> 
> what do people get for $1200? 1 man? 2 men? a whole herd?
> 
> if they have 5 items that take 5 man hours, is that covered by the $1200? or would there be an increase for the extra 4 items?


One master carpenter and one skilled helper. 1 day. Anytime i think it is more involved than a day job, they will get a free estimate from me before anything else.

I don't advertise handyman, I don't want handyman, but I wont turn down a $1,200 day. Plus it's nice not to have to cordinate a big job once in a while.


----------



## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Crock said:


> One master carpenter and one skilled helper. 1 day. Anytime i think it is more involved than a day job, they will get a free estimate from me before anything else.
> 
> I don't advertise handyman, I don't want handyman, but I wont turn down a $1,200 day. Plus it's nice not to have to cordinate a big job once in a while.


so essentially, you are charging for 2 men for a day, and telling your customers to have a list ready...i can understand that...

out of curiosity, out of 240 normal working days in a year, how many handyman days are purchased at $1200 each?


----------



## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

Avoid real estate management customers. they are almost always *** holes who will try to pick your pocket every time your back is turned.


----------



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

mahlere said:


> so essentially, you are charging for 2 men for a day, and telling your customers to have a list ready...i can understand that...
> 
> out of curiosity, out of 240 normal working days in a year, how many handyman days are purchased at $1200 each?


ooh ooh tell us please please


----------



## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

mahlere said:


> so essentially, you are charging for 2 men for a day, and telling your customers to have a list ready...i can understand that...
> 
> out of curiosity, out of 240 normal working days in a year, how many handyman days are purchased at $1200 each?


Not many because it's used to weed out undesirables. The rest are usually up sold over the phone. Typically the call will start as something like three window sills rotting for example. I will tell the customer that we have a minimum charge of 1200 but it would be a better value to go ahead and replace the three windows. At that point I get all kinds of prequalifying info out of them and I am into selling them an entire door and window job.

Remember, I don't want the 1200 ticket, but we get a few. Our average job is in the 15-20k range. I use the price to find out if the person is a remodel spender or just a patch person. We don't want to work for the patcher upper cust.

Now many guys look for the 100 or 200 dollar ticket. My mortgage and OH won't allow that. I would have to service 20 of those calls a day and use 10 per hour hands to do the work.


----------



## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

i can understand your method.....


----------



## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

A W Smith said:


> Avoid real estate management customers. they are almost always *** holes who will try to pick your pocket every time your back is turned.


LMAO! These are the roaches of society.


----------



## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Handymanservice said:


> *If you hate your customers, you're going to have a tough time in business. You have to decide to "love" dealing with your customers, even if you hate to. It is what you do now.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I couldn't have said it better!:notworthy:thumbsup:


----------

