# How do you deal with unorganized builders and GCs?



## Gumphri (May 17, 2014)

We run into a lot of this. On one of the projects I'm on we went from install only to supply and install. Since the original quote was install only. I'm billing hourly for any time spent ordering and delivering material. If the GC wants to unload their job to me I'll do it, but, I charge for it. On another note I've been doing some install only millwork jobs from companies that I don't know, for GC's that I do. I'm about to get fairly ruthless on sub par countertops, and poorly thought out details. I can make a A product look A and sometimes a B product look A. But, send me a C product and if I don't think I can make it look A, you get on that plane and put it in yourself or rebuild it and do it right this time.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

Dealt with this with multiple different contractors in the past as a sub. Sometimes, I was forced to complete their job to begin mine. Sometimes, the materials were wrong and if I didn't deal with it immediately, it only meant a delay for me, not the GC. I've had guys who are never on site so as you all know, on many jobs the carpenters become site managers because their usually on site the longest so every HO, designer, verdor, bidding and acting sub all come up to you looking for answers. This can be one of the biggest time wastes of all, with the larger the scale the worse it can be. If you're hourly, it slows production and you may need to justify the lack of daily production. If you're contract, you either lose money stopping or all but ignore and you come off as a giant A-hole. Sucks either way.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I work for those same generals Matt. I got stories man!!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

And pics to prove it...if there are problems down the road I can show them I went way and beyond the call of duty.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

So an update on my frustrations.

Over a month has passed and I have done 5 more houses for this builder. They have supplied me with a lot of work so for that I'm thankful. However very little has changed since meeting with them over a month ago to come with a better system. 

I'm still fighting with their supplier to get layouts and tile sizes. He sends me to measure prior to anything being picked out and then when we are short on something later I get the blame even though all I submitted was rough measurements of the space. I told him how many linear feet of border we needed and he bought square feet and then freaked out when we had twice as much as we needed.

The project managers are worthless and are never on site. If I have questions they never know the answer and I have to call 3 different people and then just end up getting stuck making a judgement call on my own. 

I have submitted 11k in invoices for which I am being made to wait till they get draws. Allegedly I'm supposed to be able to submit prep work invoices with no delays but weeks have gone by without a check. They always pay but it just takes forever and keep throwing more projects at me which extends my ability to cover labor and material. 

Then one of the owners says on the phone that she has a list of things I need to "improve on". I'm always willing to improve my process or address issues. I am not personally at all the jobs at all times since I have two crews. Everything they mentioned is small stuff but they have been silent as to any complaints for months and then all of a sudden have a list. It's BS to me. There is no communication with any of their people and every other trade is just as frustrated. 

I want their business but I hate working for them. I'm supposed to meet with the owner again tomorrow to go over this list of issues and they have said they have an open door policy of there are issues they need to fix. Do I let them have it with a list of their incompetencies? Do I improve what I can and move on. Do I tell them to pound sand? They give me consistent work but at the same time hog my time which prevents me from growing my business especially since they want priority and their ability to schedule sucks. 

Sorry for the novel


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

If you think they would turn out a better product more efficiently if they improved communication why wouldn't you tell them?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Stevarino said:


> I told him how many linear feet of border we needed and he bought square feet and then freaked out when we had twice as much as we needed.


Let em freak! It's not your fault that he doesn't know the difference between linear and square. But overall having the exact number of ANYTHING is a rarity. People who think otherwise have never worked in construction. 

In our daily lives we always have leftovers. Food, gas, clothing, consumables, etc. Why should construction be any different.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I handle all materials and only can blame myself 

You should take control of placing the materials order.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

I got pushed off for a meeting. So I'll have to try to get them to meet next week. And I'm going to push for control of all tile materials. My personal jobs go smoothly because I handle materials and I advise the customer on selections and I'm the one aware of all layouts and designs from the beginning without having the customer speak to ten different people about their tile.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

Stevarino said:


> I got pushed off for a meeting. So I'll have to try to get them to meet next week. And I'm going to push for control of all tile materials. My personal jobs go smoothly because I handle materials and I advise the customer on selections and I'm the one aware of all layouts and designs from the beginning without having the customer speak to ten different people about their tile.


Jobs definitely go smoother when we, as subs, take larger shares of responsibility. Just be aware you'll likely get zero extra pay even though the GC is more than happy to have you meet with HOs instead of them spending their time doing it.


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

Stevarino said:


> I have submitted 11k in invoices for which I am being made to wait till they get draws. Allegedly I'm supposed to be able to submit prep work invoices with no delays but weeks have gone by without a check. They always pay but it just takes forever and keep throwing more projects at me which extends my ability to cover labor and material.


This would be my only discussion.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

I know this thread is old, but let me throw something out there . Stop and look at what's happening to you . Think. Here's the deal : First , you are getting pushed to show activity to excite the homeowner , and secondly , to motivate the lender or justify a draw . 

None of that means the job is ready , the money is lined up or anything . one of the best new construction subs I know does it this way.... He visits the job 2-3 times in advance, and carefully looks over every detail . once 100 percent of material is onsite and the job is ready for his phase of work, he comes in , sets up , and kills it.

I know some of you may be afraid you ll lose business and builders, but you are losing something more valuable ..time and money . Do this business ON YOUR TERMS . At the end of the day , results are what matter. You ll make more money and be highly respected.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

I appreciate your input I'm still wading through the garbage as we speak. Im trying to convince them to drop their flooring supplier and let me handle the tile materials so I can control my part of the job. Im sick of being shorted or told I have to drive an hour to pick up the materials that he shorted me. I have also been very clear on scheduling. I'm not showing up till its ready.


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## Stilist (Jan 16, 2015)

If you feel successful in doing managing job consider doing it for money. Fees for PM or site management. or CM could be more interesting than your current specialization. Plus you could always do some handwork for additional money if would you like.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Wow, Moscow. That has to be a first.


To your problem. add your waste percentage to the measure. Measure to next full foot.

But seriously, how do you schedule without knowing anything about the material? I would visit the job site and talked to the trades about when they will be out of your way and which areas will be ready first. 

Late money is a bigger problem, imo. You've got a business with a crew and cash flow is king. If they can't pay on time, get money down. You need cash flow or you have to pull off the job to get it.


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