# Boxing Butts



## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Does anybody else finish coat their butts and let dry before finish coating seams to eliminate having to cross-off your butts? If you haven't tried it you might want to once. My 2cents for the day.

Anybody else want to add a trick they have learned over the years?:cheesygri


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

When doing butts, do you run a ten down each side, then when dry run a twelve down the middle or back down both sides again?
We had a nursing home where we had a lot of light at end of walls, so we ran four boxes wide on each butt. Two wide on each side, then hit them three times on the alternating. Makes a forty plus wide butt, and flat.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

Brockster said:


> Does anybody else finish coat their butts and let dry before finish coating seams to eliminate having to cross-off your butts? If you haven't tried it you might want to once. My 2cents for the day.
> 
> Anybody else want to add a trick they have learned over the years?:cheesygri


Do you use Tape Tech tools? 
Do you follow your boxes with a knife?


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Say if the hollow side is on the left then I box down that side of the tape, maybe 1/2" past (onto the next sheet) so I cover the tape. Then I'll box to the left of that as close as I can get, then on the other side of the butt one time. So two on the hollow side and once on the other side. 
On final coat just reverse it.
I'll take pictures next time I box as I'm sure it's hard to imagine without seeing it with my explanation.

I've seen butts boxed several different ways and by no means am I saying my way is better than any other way but no matter which way you do it if you finish your butts first than when they are dry you box the seams than you save crossing off and get a great, low sand finish.


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Tim0282 said:


> Do you use Tape Tech tools?
> Do you follow your boxes with a knife?


Do you use Tape Tech tools? yes Do you follow your boxes with a knife? No, just keep my box adjusted and learned to do a clean job. Most of the time it takes me two+ strokes on butts for me to get it right without bubbles because box is on zero or one.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

We usually box butts with the 7" straight, bust them out with a 10" , then out again with a 12" by hand. We touch up with 90 to hit any bubbles.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Tim0282 said:


> When doing butts, do you run a ten down each side, then when dry run a twelve down the middle or back down both sides again?
> We had a nursing home where we had a lot of light at end of walls, so we ran four boxes wide on each butt. Two wide on each side, then hit them three times on the alternating. Makes a forty plus wide butt, and flat.


HOLy SHIMOLY-THAT'S A BIG BUTT:laughing:


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

I understand what you're saying on method of boxing your butts. So you are saying, also that your box man pays attention to the way the butt looks before he boxes it. Wow, that's a novel idea... thinking. Sorry, I vented for a second there.
Your method does sound good. Always good to hear how another does it. I will try the butts first, then the flats. Now do you run your angles after flats so you don't have to cut flat into angle? That makes sense like the butt, although we don't do it that way for some reason. Old habits.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> HOLy SHIMOLY-THAT'S A BIG BUTT:laughing:


Yepper and a flat one at that..


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Tim0282 said:


> Yepper and a flat one at that..


It's true-you really do need to bust them out that big or you can literally jump your bike over them.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

That was the first time I felt like I needed to go that wide, just had a window ten feet down the wall from every one of them. Light can be a killer at times. My butts look much better in the dark all the time...


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Tim, I do angles after the flats then the corner bead last. Just my 1,2,3 method and I'm not saying my way is better than any other mexican out there.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

Brockster said:


> Tim, I do angles after the flats then the corner bead last. Just my 1,2,3 method and I'm not saying my way is better than any other mexican out there.


Your 1,2,3 method? 
Your name doesn't really sound Mexican...


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

It seems every time I eat Mexican-I only have a number 2 method.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> It seems every time I eat Mexican-I only have a number 2 method.


Smooth move, I hope.

Are there Mexicans in Wisconsin? I would think it would be too cold.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

well-I don't add soap


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> well-I don't add soap


I don't either. It smells funny. They use more soap in mud that they do on their bodes.


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Tim0282 said:


> Are there Mexicans in Wisconsin?


In the last 5 or so years we've got an abundance of them. How many do you need? You can have them all!


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Up here in northeast Ohio-we are the monority


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> Up here in northeast Ohio-we are the monority


They do seem to be coming in droves. I have used them for hangers. A group of six will hang 300-350 sheets a day. 10 hours. Any day of the week. All screws and glue, no nails. And dead on boxes and never miss. Joints are tight and looks real good. 21 cents a foot. You can find them cheaper, but not worth the prefill. They will hang beads, scrap out and sweep for that.


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## Al Taper (Jul 10, 2007)

Tim0282 said:


> They do seem to be coming in droves. I have used them for hangers. A group of six will hang 300-350 sheets a day. 10 hours. Any day of the week. All screws and glue, no nails. And dead on boxes and never miss. Joints are tight and looks real good. 21 cents a foot. You can find them cheaper, but not worth the prefill. They will hang beads, scrap out and sweep for that.


 
Damn ,I want one or six. My guy dont do crap.


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Tim0282 said:


> They do seem to be coming in droves. I have used them for hangers. A group of six will hang 300-350 sheets a day. 10 hours. Any day of the week. All screws and glue, no nails. And dead on boxes and never miss. Joints are tight and looks real good. 21 cents a foot. You can find them cheaper, but not worth the prefill. They will hang beads, scrap out and sweep for that.


I've got a crew just like yours but I also ask them to cut all butts back, you know, V them. 
I also use a white crew when I can but they are usually stoned out of their minds so it's hard for me to hire them.:sad:


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## drywallet (Feb 26, 2007)

Exactly! Why is that. They sit around get stoned and wonder why the mexicans have all the work?


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## mseneker (Dec 22, 2007)

*Not all butt-joints are equal!*

Not all butt-joints require the same amount of mud and therefore one should not make a practice of running them all the same way. Ask the guy who textures your ceilings. He can tell you.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

drywallet said:


> Exactly! Why is that. They sit around get stoned and wonder why the mexicans have all the work?


I have had those hangers for too many years. I wish the white guys would work as good, but they would rather hang enough footage to get another high. Too bad...


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## Tradesman (Jun 22, 2007)

*Back-blocking*

Anybody tried back-blocking butts? I tried the RockSplicer a couple of years ago and was instantly hooked. In case you are unfamiliar, back blocking consists of installing a device (several different designs) behind the butt joints which are set BETWEEN framing members. The RockSplicer is a 6" x 53" x 3/8" piece of mdf with a 1/16" deep x 5" wide groove down its length. This leaves a 1/16" x 1/2" leg on either edge. When you screw the butt down into the center of the groove, it pulls it down slightly making it just like a tapered edge. Then you can tape it as you would the straights. You wind up with a totally flat surface that is unafraid of back-lighting. Countertops and trim all fit tight and everybody is happy. It is an extra expense (RockSplicers cost me a little over $4.00 each with shipping) but on the job I am currently hanging (about 5000 sf of rock) it is an upcharge of about $200.00 bucks total, which comes out to only $.04/sf. Well worth it, imho.


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Tradesman, we do that on larger commercial jobs except we use 1by4's.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

Brockster said:


> Tradesman, we do that on larger commercial jobs except we use 1by4's.


By larger, do you mean a real commercial job. Or just one that pays?


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## Tradesman (Jun 22, 2007)

Brockster said:


> Tradesman, we do that on larger commercial jobs except we use 1by4's.


So, Brockster,

Do you just put a 1x4 behind the butts or do you modify the 1x4 in some way? The point of the RockSplicer is that it basically turns a butt joint into a tapered joint which can then be finished in whatever way the straights are. I have run across some old methods of achieving a similar result with 1x lumber, but they're pretty time consuming.


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

We just cut a bunch of the cheapest 1by4's available. It does not bevel the edge but it's cheap. We really only do this on large commercial walls. 
But I do have the hangers 'V' cut the butt joints and I durabond prefill to get a clean butt. 
I might use your method if I had a level 5 finish with lots of natural light and the customer was willing to pay, otherwise the way I do my butts I don't have any problems.
Why not just make your hangers shim back a couple of studs on each side of the butt and save tons of money? It's old school but damn it is nice to finish correctly shimmed butts and much cheaper than 4 bucks per butt.


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## Tradesman (Jun 22, 2007)

Brockster,

Shimming the studs does give a tapered joint, but you still don't wind up with a flat surface; you have a 32" bump for counters and trim to fit around. A granite backsplash, for instance, really likes a flat surface to mount to and the only way I have found to do that is by back-blocking with one of the products available. I haven't found that the extra 100-200 bucks on a whole house prices me out of the market, particularly when it is a better looking job. To each their own, though.


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

Tradesman said:


> Brockster,
> 
> Shimming the studs does give a tapered joint, but you still don't wind up with a flat surface; you have a 32" bump for counters and trim to fit around. A granite backsplash, for instance, really likes a flat surface to mount to and the only way I have found to do that is by back-blocking with one of the products available. I haven't found that the extra 100-200 bucks on a whole house prices me out of the market, particularly when it is a better looking job. To each their own, though.


No doubt the counter top guy absolutely loves you and finishing butts with that product is easy and comes out looking nice. But then again, how many framers find the straightest studs and crown them for the kitchen to make life easier for the cabinet crew? Not many around here anyhow. Sure, it's an excuse, but you also taught us there is a product out there that makes finishing butts foolproof. BTW, you too can use the system I use for finishing them so you save from crossing off and will make life easier.:thumbup:


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## Tradesman (Jun 22, 2007)

Actually, Brockster, I do most of my work for a custom home builder, who is also a good friend of mine. Since I work several trades, while the houses are being framed, I'm a carpenter. Then, when the time comes, I do the drywall (hang and finish). Then it's back to carpentry, installing trim, cabinets, floors, etc. After that, I also do the painting. So, yeah, we do like flat walls. I'm trying to get everybody to crown the studs but some slip by. Oh, well. Keeps me working, anyway.

By the way, what is "crossing off"? In 25 years of drywall work I haven't heard that term. Is it a Wisconsin thing?


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

When you box the seams and then the butts you end up needing to fill (with mudd by hand) where the two meet to fill the void. Also where you ran the angle box over a seam you get that line that should be filled before sanding. That is what we call cross-off and would love to hear what others call it.

This just the way I have done butts and if anybody have tips to share then I'm all ears.


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## dryrocker27 (Dec 2, 2007)

Brockster-We box the wall seams first and then box the sides of butt joints. we then go back and hand fill the void that you mentioned. We have done the butts first and let them dry if we tape the house out fast enough to do the butts before we leave. 

We refer to the line left in the seam from the angle head as "THE GROOVE"


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