# Anybody doing Roof Coatings, roll or spray?



## btymerenovate (Oct 22, 2007)

Anybody know about Cronklin Roofing Systems and their products? Has anyone used there products and made big money on the jobs like the marketing Reps say you can make?


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## tiny (Mar 10, 2005)

*coatings*

Check there website coatings can be a 50/50 thing theres always a cheaper guy.Where are you located in the detriot area?


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Acrylics are not a roofing system. Period!


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## Walason (Jan 7, 2009)

I was a Conklin guy for a few years. Now I use a solvent based butyl coating product. We do exclusive coatings in the western, NY area. Water based for your area is not the way to go due to the limited season. I have two small crews that can go year round with the coatings we use. We utilize a fabric reinforced installation that can replace or prolong the life of the existing roof system for as much as 14 years (and still going strong) with annual inspections and maintenance, which brings in new customers and more business. For my firm, coatings (and their respective systems) which are 90-plus % of our work have been VERY profitable. I can send you some info/links via e-mail of the products I use, if that would help. [email protected]


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

AaronB. said:


> Acrylics are not a roofing system. Period!


OMG Aaron, we agree on something!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap:


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Polyurea!


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

AaronB. said:


> Acrylics are not a roofing system. Period!


Acrylics are a coating if not installed with other accessories. An acrylic based bonding resin can be installed over the surface saturated with poly fabric, then coated with acrylic top coats. Alone any of the acrylic would fail, together it's a decent recovery system that so far seems to be working (knocks on wood). Although there are obviously some draw backs to acrylic, like needing a good slope and NO ponding water. In these cases go with a solvent based elastomeric in lieu of the acrylic. Plus solvent based is less particular about curing in the cold. 

Would I install an acrylic roof coating and call it a roof? No probably not. Maybe if we butyl taped or poly meshed all the seams and then coated the entire roof I could give a 2 year guarantee, maybe. 

Spraying will be faster than pouring. You should still need to back roll even if you are spraying. I don't spray (yet) because I fear over spray. 

Can you make big money? Maybe. It depends on the type of system and size of roof. For example a fully reinforced system with acrylics will typically require 2 or 3 visits to the site. Imagine a 12 square roof, working 3 half days to get it done. Alot of wasted time. For what I need to charge to make money on a 12 square roof, they are better off spending the extra $50 or $75 a square and letting me tear it off or recovering with single ply.


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

First of all, it should be the law that the words 'roof restoration' be used when referring to any type of coating product or system. They are designed to restore or prolong the life of an 'existing' system. I am a large advocate of restoring metal roofing systems (mostly in commercial instances due to the aesthetic appearances of dull white, grey, tan, or a very limited array of color choices), but only under certain specifications. The entire roof should be inspected to locate and mark any loose fasters, damaged or bent panels, rust areas etc. Once all of those items are remedied properly, we power wash and prime the entire area with a rust inhibitive primer. We require that all seams, both vertical and horizontal be either three coursed with elastomeric mastic and fiberglass reinforcement membrane or a butyl seam tape be used and coated with a brush coat of elastomeric mastic. All fasteners must be sealed with a nice hershey's kiss of elastomeric mastic as well as all roof penetrations and bases. Once prepped, two seperate even coats of coating are applied, the second coat being applied opposite to the first to ensure all holidaze are sprayed. Profit?? If you get your price you can make over 100% profit. The Problem!! As mentioned before, a lot of pickup and ladder contractors sell roof coatings for under $2.00 per SF (some even around $1.00) b/c they don't do the prep work that makes the system perform. The coating, itself is not designed to fix leaks....the prep work fixes the leaks and the coating provides lasting protection and energy efficiency. The biggest problem is that as we are rigged out with several thousand dollar machines, etc, to spray our roofs, this system can be put on by three guys with less than $50.00 worth of tools and a ladder. 

Agree with Grump in saying that roof restorations are not a 'roof', but a very solid option for restoring or extending the life of an existing roof if done properly. I would not build a $20 million dollar school and roof it by installing 1" Iso over the roof deck, taping the insulation seams, spraying a first coat, rolling fabric, and spraying a top coat. Good luck with that one!


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Which rust inhibitive primer do you use?

Who says that dull white grey or tan or a very limited choice of colors has anything to do with anything?

Yeah, I have about a hundred grand into my polyurea equipment and I can put on a full 3 gallon per square (48 mil) roofing membrane system to said metal roofing with a true zinc enriched rust inhibiting two part epoxy primer that can stand indefinite water soak (since polyurea is a true vapor barrier and is excellent under standing water) for the same price I can install a 3 gallon per square (27 mil) roof paint system (acrylic) for, and give it a 10 year Guarantee. (we would give more but why?) I can cross link any color with it and give the customer their desired look.

Yes, I would go to an iso board and guarantee it, even under standing water. Thats how polyurea rolls!


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Oh, we can do it in the cold too. As cold as we can humanly stand it.  Word!


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

buildpinnacle said:


> roof it by installing 1" Iso over the roof deck, taping the insulation seams, spraying a first coat, rolling fabric, and spraying a top coat. Good luck with that one!


I did something like that with a cement board and had some very bad failures. It was cement board, taped seams with fabric faced butyl tape, coat, then re-coat. The tape failed and some how tore through the coating. Since it was a warranted system, the manufacturer went out and repaired it. I'm donw with that spec!


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

AaronB, a good quality zinc chormate or zinc oxide, IMO, will generally suffice depending on the oxidation present. I have grown to like a rust inhibitive primer manufactured by Roof Guardian in coastal areas. 

Insofar as the ponding capabilities of these systems, I have been told and sold that pitch for years and have yet to find one that can withstand ponding water. We have never used Polyurea, so maybe it is the one. I would be interested to know if you have a system that has been susceptible to ponding water (3/4" or more standing water for more than 48 hrs at at time by definition of most mfg's) for several years and how it performed. How long have you been using the product and what is your oldest application. It's not pushed much around my area. At all, actually, but we are always interested in superior products. 

I guess I'm old school. I'm a *******, I guess. Good old mopped base, plies, and granulated cap sheet for me....if I'm not feeling nastalgic and thowing down four plies with gravel. I've restored thousands of squares of flats with elastomeric systems, but would never use one as a roof by itslef.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Pinnacle, you don't think the solvent based stand up pretty well to standing water when applied at about 3 gal per square, plus 2 gal of acrylic bonding resin to bond the sebs to the existing roof? That's 5 gal of material per square, the SEBS has so far stood up for in at that application rate.


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> Pinnacle, you don't think the solvent based stand up pretty well to standing water when applied at about 3 gal per square, plus 2 gal of acrylic bonding resin to bond the sebs to the existing roof? That's 5 gal of material per square, the SEBS has so far stood up for in at that application rate.


My response to that is simple. It seems to be an over spec to for a product that 'may' work well and withstand ponding water, etc. At the price to put that system on, I can install a well designed modified bitumen system energy star rated or a 60 mil TPO that I know will perform as expected and the TPO is the ONLY roof system that will not be affected by the ponding water. Not disagreeing with you, Grump, b/c I don't know the answer. I would have to see several roofs that have sustained the issues we are discussing with these products installed for over ten years. Albeit, that would be a monster cool roof system.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

buildpinnacle said:


> My response to that is simple. It seems to be an over spec to for a product that 'may' work well and withstand ponding water, etc. At the price to put that system on, I can install a well designed modified bitumen system energy star rated or a 60 mil TPO that I know will perform as expected and the TPO is the ONLY roof system that will not be affected by the ponding water. Not disagreeing with you, Grump, b/c I don't know the answer. I would have to see several roofs that have sustained the issues we are discussing with these products installed for over ten years. Albeit, that would be a monster cool roof system.


You can not install your preferred modified bitumen or TPO because... A) they are already at their maximum number of layers allowed by code. B) They do not have it in the budget for a tear off, but they need somethign major now. C) They wish to depreciate 100% of the roofing expense in the first year instead of ammortize it over 29 years. 

Would I prefer to recover with TPO? Absolutely and that's what we are pushing in these scenarios, but we don't always get what we want and sometimes have to do what the customer wants. 

That roof system I mentioned above I can do for an installed cost of about $4 a foot on a large open job. Materials are about $160 a square. With a 6 year guarantee. It is labor intensive, and Aaron's polyurea would require less visits to the job, however I expect the materials cost much much more and the polyurea equipment certainly does cost about 10x more.

The manufacturer I primarily work with says I am too expensive LOL. They claim my competitors do it for 1/3 less, but one of their biggest non-union companies just went out of business temporarily. I wonder why...


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Poolyurea has been in service for nearly 30 years. It is a true vapor barrier. It withstands indefinite watersoak. The rig and all needed equipment cost nearly 100k. I can install a 48 mil standard system for about 3.50 a foot. Cool roofing in this proctuct line will cost yhou about 4.50 a foot.


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## lucas (Feb 22, 2007)

Acrylics can be useful but they're simply not waterproof. They are a "water-resistant" reflective coatings. Great if you live in, say, Arizona.

There are solvent-borne coatings available that will withstand reasonable (if it's a lake in really needs to be drained) ponding water with a 20 - 24 dry mil two coat material cost of less than $75 without the need to invest tens of thousands in equipment. They are not a roof. They are simply a new waterproof and corrosion resistant surface. 

Most commercial roof systems, including TPO, most PVC and modifieds, are essentially factory applied coatings that incorporate a reinforcement. It is possible and often practical to do the same in the field with fluid applied coatings and a reinforcement but it will normally be cost prohibitive unless the roof is exceptionally inaccessible, has numerous penetrations and equipment obstructions or the reinforced system is used only on certain portions of the roof that have issues.


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## ncrouse (Mar 12, 2009)

*Coatings are by definition decoration*

A layer of a substance spread over a surface for protection or decoration; a covering layer.

There are very few "coatings" that have survived the test of time. The acrylics continue to forge the market, largely due to their inexpensive nature and easy clean-up. let us not forget that acrylics are a water-based paint, and therefore are water-resistant at best. No acrylic will withstand ponding water....period.

I agree with the boys from Ill. Polyurea is the best "coating" product on the market at this time. The advancements made in the pliability and cold crack characteristics provide a wider range of applications. But, the answer is in the details. The coatings industry is still lagging behind in enforecement of good roofing practice. They, as a whole have not adopted, nor enforced NRCA standards for wall flashing or penetration flashing. That is where the industry will succeed or fail. If they continue to allow their foam contractors to spray and do whatever they please...the reputation will follow the path of PUFF, and I am a fan of sprayed polyurethane foam systems, in the right place, and installed in the 15 days alloted every year...in my neck of the woods.

Most "coatings" are chemical formulations that have been developed to provide restoration, or to extend the life of a roof. They require research and field tests, largely to "get the hang of application". They also require a very good applicator, consistant and one that has had many hours of spray time, or application time, if they are rolling the product on. We have found that the primer is the foundation for success or failure.

Good luck....call or email if you need help!

Norm :thumbup:


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## rc-construction (Nov 7, 2007)

I sometimes use Conklins products if the job calls for it. It is what it is. There are lots of companies whith nearly the exact same system and materials.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

AHA! But Polyurea is the only true vapor barrier in the market, making it of the same grade as a high quality PVC. It IS a roof. Right to the substrate, baby!

But youre right, one MUST know what one is doing to tackle this system. Once you get it, nobody can beat you. Its more of a field applied membrane system. Seamless, strong, flexible, and resilient.... POLYUREA!


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

...


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## roofpro350 (May 20, 2008)

AaronB. said:


> AHA! But Polyurea is the only true vapor barrier in the market, making it of the same grade as a high quality PVC. It IS a roof. Right to the substrate, baby!
> 
> But youre right, one MUST know what one is doing to tackle this system. Once you get it, nobody can beat you. Its more of a field applied membrane system. Seamless, strong, flexible, and resilient.... POLYUREA!


This post started out asking about coatings roll or spray and we ended up with all type of roofs that range from $1.00 to $4.50 and more, you can install a good conventional roofing system with insulation fill at these costs. Me I like to roll, safer but not faster, be sure to power wash.


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## lucas (Feb 22, 2007)

I've seen polyurea fail - all on metal. It just couldn't take the movement. It isn't a cure all and it's not a roof. It's a roof if you can apply it directly to insulation or plywood and get a minimum of 10 years with a factory warranty. That is not available for polyurea because it would never work.

BTW. I can but down a butyl base and get zero perms. Also numerous polyurethanes will do .002.


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## lucas (Feb 22, 2007)

ncrouse said:


> A layer of a substance spread over a surface for protection or decoration; a covering layer.
> 
> There are very few "coatings" that have survived the test of time.
> 
> Norm :thumbup:


You've obviously never seen a roll coating operation (i.e. a roofing plant). There is nothing "decorative" about it. Coatings can be decorative, protective or both. Whomever wrote your dictionary obviously knew nothing about coatings.


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## Gombido (Jan 30, 2014)

http://Quest-cp.com Liquid applied ROOF systems are real. Check roofnav.com 

Technically SPF systems are liquid applied systems as well. QCP has several "coating systems" with class 1 roof system approvals. believe it. I do over 2 million in new and re roof installations each year.


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## lrissler (Feb 16, 2013)

btymerenovate said:


> Anybody know about Cronklin Roofing Systems and their products? Has anyone used there products and made big money on the jobs like the marketing Reps say you can make?


We have been installing Conklin roofing since 2007 in addition to our other construction. We have just decided this year to make the full switch to commercial roofing and roof restoration coatings since it has a much larger profit margin than installing metal roofing, shingles residential work.(unless they are insurance claim jobs!) Plus I don't mind not having to buck shingles and metal around. I've never had any issue with the coatings but I've mostly used there poly-urethane modified acrylic coating. I will note that it does not do well if you have ponding water. But if the roof is up to code that isn't an issue. I believe international bulging code requires 1/4" slope per ft but as long as you have positive drainage it will work fine.
There is alot of prep work, if that isn't done correctly you may as well let the coating in the drum! 

There's a time and a place for coating systems it isn't a miracle product as some portray it.
There's definitely a growing market for roof coatings as more people are seeing the benefits. Plus some of the larger cities are requiring roofs to be white to reduce the heat in the city. I smell opportunity!!


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## Amite2015 (Aug 6, 2014)

the thicker the shingle, the more value you are going to get for your buck while they last. Not to mention that a 30 year shingle ( which I recommend for 99% of the homes I re-roof, is going to be a prettier application and save you some cash compared to the thinner 3 - Tab.

Amite
http://www.NYSunrise.com


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