# Carpet Laying Tips



## Bozzy (Feb 22, 2008)

Found this on the DIY Chat room, very amusing.

*Good tips to install a new carpet!!* 
If you want to install a new carpet then here is the procedure & some tips which can be helpful for you...

Start by vacuuming the old carpet to avoid breathing in all that dust, then cut up the carpet into strips which makes for an easier disposal. Remove the molding around the floor in order to take off the doors to have enough space to move the old carpet out and bring in the new one in. Pull the carpet off the tackless strips and start rolling it up in sections.


Remove all tackless strips and dispose of them along with the old carpet. Vacuum the floor to make it ready to receive the new carpeting. Start installing the new tackless strips around the border of the room; be careful not to install any at the entrance ways.


Leave a ½ space between the strips and the wall and make sure those tackless strips and securely butted against each other. Start laying the under pad strips down so that they overlap the tackless strips and make sure that they are butted snugly against each other, now start stapling the underlay along the inside edge of the tackless strips.


You will have to trim off any excess underlay along the inside of the tackless strip and seal the seams with some duct tape.
To begin laying the carpet start with a piece that overlaps the edge of the floor approximately four to six inches, this excess will be trimmed late on to allow the carpet to fit properly. Measure the room at it's longest point and add about six inches to that measurement then cut your section to fit that measurement.


Place a mark on the back of the carpet on both edges using this same measurement and join the two marks with a chalk line. Now fold the carpet over and cut through the backside of your carpet. When you have finished cutting the carpet place a piece of seaming tape on the floor underneath where they join and make sure that it lines up exactly in the center where they are joined.


Check to make sure that the adhesive side of the tape is facing up and use a seaming iron to heat up the adhesive and activate it, and then butt the edges together and seal the seams with a carpet roller. Now you will have to use that knee kicker that you probably rented to attaché the carpet.
Position the toothed end of the knee kicker approximately three inches away from the wall and push down with your keen into the padded end of the knee kicker. This action will allow the carpet to stretch over the tackless strip where the tacks will grab and hold it into position.


It is now time to change from the knee kicker to the carpet stretcher to finish the carpet installation. Position one end of the carpet stretcher against the wall where the carpet is already installed and place the other end of the carpet stretcher approximately six inches away from the far wall, then push on the activations lever to stretch the carpet over the tackless strip near the far wall.


Continue this action until the carpet has been fully installed, and remember to trim the carpet nearest the wall with a wall trimmer. Almost done, now use a stair tool, to tuck the carpet down into the gap between the tackless strips and the wall, and be sure and trim the carpet at the front of the doorway so that the edge is centered under the door, which should be in a closed position, and install the edge strips on the door.


One more step and you're all done cut any necessary vent openings and install the molding on the baseboards and that's it you are all done.
__________________


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

I could pick that apart.

The tackstrip gap to the wall or baseboard, should be the thickness of the carpet, but no greater then 3/8". It talks nothing about seams. The standard is 3" added to each cut, not 6", you can net fit the widths, if a selvage edge is not attached. Cushion should be stretched and then stapled. Taped seams is optional. It actually will show across traffic areas as the cushion is compressed over the years, the taped area does not, telegraphing the hump to be seen.... I could go on and on.


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## Demonseed (Jun 22, 2007)

They forgot to remind the DIY'er, to make sure the carpet is fuzzy side up.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

TIP #1, hire a good carpet guy


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

Ya, put a gold bar across a doorway in a multi million dollar home!!! See where that gets you!!:laughing: It might work in a trailer house, but not my house and definitely no my clients.


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## Mike Costello (Aug 1, 2004)

You call it gold bar....I call it seam sealer


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## kreed (Apr 23, 2008)

From some of the nearly-new houses I've seen, I don't think many of my local builders even know what a carpet stretcher is.


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## JerJer78 (Apr 30, 2008)

Remove the molding around the floor in order to take off the doors.

:blink:Whats you talkin 'bout willis???


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## jtpro (May 21, 2009)

JerJer78 said:


> Remove the molding around the floor in order to take off the doors.
> 
> :blink:Whats you talkin 'bout willis???


Makes sense to me as I've OFTEN ran into the problem of base trim interfering with the hinge pins!  Two thumbs up :thumbup: on the stretcher though MOST guys use knee kicks only because it's quicker. Although some guys are AWESOME with them VERY few have I seen can get a good stretch with them.( I'd rather save my knees for standing up!)

I also thought duct tape went out in the early '90's and was replaced with pad glue along with sometimes stapling the seam on a wood sub floor.

And what about checking the stretch with the .25 "snap back" rule? or how about depending on the quality of the carpet that within 6 months (when the carpet relaxes) you might have to do a re stretch?

I like the Step 1: Hire a PRO! as the saying goes...."You can pay me to do it right the first time or.....you can pay me DOUBLE to fix your FK UP!:laughing:


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## jtpro (May 21, 2009)

Oh and "Tackless strip"? never heard of it. If the old TACK strip is in good condition why remove it? and don't forget the angled tacks go TOWARDS the wall!!!!! :laughing:


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

Good for a laugh, if not so sad. Makes me wonder why I have thousands invested in tools and countless hours in training.


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

jtpro said:


> Oh and "Tackless strip"? never heard of it. If the old TACK strip is in good condition why remove it? and don't forget the angled tacks go TOWARDS the wall!!!!! :laughing:



When tackstrip first came out, it was called tackless, because you no longer had to use tacks to hold the carpet tight and stretched, leaving dimples in the face around the perimeter. The term spitting tacks, comes from the carpet industry.


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## mack9110000 (Aug 24, 2006)

Floordude said:


> The term spitting tacks, comes from the carpet industry.


In the UK that would be the upholstery industry,many of the older carpet fitters,I knew, were upholsterers by trade.I can remember those guys with a mouthful of tacks (jimsies) and a magnetic hammer.I'm happy to see the end of those *good* ol days.:hammer:
mack.


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## [email protected] (Apr 3, 2009)

now you are bringing back memorys,

Wilton Royal (the original company) used to teach fitters to lay a line of chalk around the perimiter, lay the carpet into the chalk to get a edge line then cut one inch above the line to allow turn & tack after sealing all the cut edges

In some old stately homes that were preserved and opened to the public, in order to preserve the historic value of the home i did fit carpets that required them to be turned & tacked and i also used pin & socket. hand sew seams and also hand sew Bull nose steps. all in body width carpet.

makes my fingers sore just thinking about it


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## ScaryLari (Jul 7, 2009)

Yah you never want to remove the tack strip esp in concrete i been i a few basements I had to ardex then glue and nail the strip back in place because some homeowner wanted new lol.

and to say to leave it 1/2 in away from the wall well lets just say i hope u like bubbles depending on the carpet of course. 

And best thing said was hire a good carpet installer.


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## floorme (Jun 25, 2009)

uuummmm.... not sure what to say, tape the seams if the pad has a moisture barrier. DO NOT take up good tack strip. Call me when you need the job done right...


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

mack9110000 said:


> Floordude said:
> 
> 
> > The term spitting tacks, comes from the carpet industry.
> ...


 They were also called, spit tacks.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

floorme said:


> uuummmm.... not sure what to say, tape the seams if the pad has a moisture barrier. DO NOT take up good tack strip. Call me when you need the job done right...


 How do you cut your seems?


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

Carpet seams? Row cut or straight edge. Depends on the carpet.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> Carpet seams? Row cut or straight edge. Depends on the carpet.


Good I hope you realize that every time you cut your seam, you have to go back and re-tape the pad, unless your touch is so good and the material allows such, right?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Addendum to my above post. 

Unless you are using a straight edge.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I'm just glad that they said to vacuum the carpet first. Nothing is more disgusting than having your hands and knees covered in dried toe-jam and nail clippings.

:no:


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## Lunicy (Dec 24, 2004)

What is this, the stone age? Seaming iron? Come on, gorilla duct tape will work just as good.

LOL


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## Lunicy (Dec 24, 2004)

Yes, lord knows you wouldn't want to inject humor into a site full of contractors. 

The op was a DIY article, which was picked apart on the 1st page. We wouldn't want do go "full homeowner" style and use the proper tools like a seaming iron or kicker now would we.


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## Lunicy (Dec 24, 2004)

You know who said:


> You offered nothing that pertains to what I have written. Run along child.



Yea, basically why I stopped coming to this site 10 years ago.

I bet you're a real peach on the worksite.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

A carpet cleaner is being used by the manufacturers, to make the carpet breakdown and have wrinkles much faster then should be. What is that process, if you have a brain.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Some cleaners claim to take out pet stains and the smell. Why is it that they don't know what they're talking about?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Cleaners don't know what they're talking about, because all they do is clean the surface of the carpet. They know nothing more than that.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

It's kind of funny, the cleaners pretend to be inspectors of carpet installers work, when the cleaners don't even understand what's going on in their own business. 

It's so funny how carpet companies sell what they do with a straight face, just as carpet cleaners do what they do. 

I have to wonder if carpet cleaners across the whole of the United States don't understand or are they just pretending not to understand?


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Inspectors are trained and certified, just like any other type trades, don't bundle.

Saw your profile, I'm currently in Citrus, you?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> Inspectors are trained and certified, just like any other type trades, don't bundle.
> 
> Saw your profile, I'm currently in Citrus, you?


 It depends on who trains them, wouldn't you think? 

Ask any of those claim to control and license, to explain the Roberts method of installation. 

Mr. Roberts was the one to design the tools and the method for installing carpet in its present form.

Countless times I have asked installers and cleaners on the net, to detail the Roberts method of installation and to date, and not one of them can.

I am in Duval County.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> Inspectors are trained and certified, just like any other type trades, don't bundle.
> 
> Saw your profile, I'm currently in Citrus, you?


 Why don't you contact the CRI, The carpet and rug institute or the CFI, The certified flooring installers and ask either of those bodies, to explain the Roberts method of installation. 

So far, all the CRI or CFI can detail, is a one room install.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> Inspectors are trained and certified, just like any other type trades, don't bundle.
> 
> Saw your profile, I'm currently in Citrus, you?


 My real name is Jim Ryan. I claim to be at least one of the smartest installers or should I just say one of the smartest people in this industry. I'm claiming king of the mountain, displace me if you can. 

That is a challenge to all within the CFI, including Jim Walker and all in the CRI which is I don't know who and anyone within the IICRC. 

The mills are the ones that are backing these organizations. Without their money there would be no CRI, no CFI and no I I CRC. All of them owe their allegiance to the mills, against the lowest man on the totem pole, that being the carpet installers.

The following was presented by Jim walker and the CFI. They set up a test whereby those taking the test were to use a wooden board and a piece of carpet with which they used a row cutter to cut the same and then to put it together. The only problem is or was, that when you put pressure down on the blade, it bites into the wood, which draws the blade and the row cutter off-line. How is it that the entire certified flooring installers leadership, didn't understand that? 

This is what was told to me on the Internet at one of the websites that I used to talk on. 

After I have embarrassed the CFI so many times, they stopped me from talking on all the other websites that are supposed to be for carpet installers. Those sites are for the mills and the retailers, so they could garner all of the information from the installers, in an effort to adjust how the carpet is made and how better to control the installers, as if the retailers we're not totally dominating the carpet installers for a lifetime already.

The only problem is, that we are not allowed to say on the net what that dominance consist of, because it will always be scrubbed from the net, as has been proven so many times before. 

So the mills are making the carpet to break down under certain conditions, just like the car industry and others. However, this kind of thing and it's teaching, teaches the children who are just coming into this Industry , that everything is done in the name of the bottom-line. When something goes wrong, it is the fault of the lowest man on the totem pole and guess who that is. 

So what are American children being taught? 

Obviously carpet cleaners don't understand their part in all this or if they do, they don't say anything. 

I thought this was supposed to be a Christian nation. Do Unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Did you know that Newton and Einstein were wrong in a great many ways? 

Faster than the speed of light

New science by Jim Ryan

The only thing faster than the speed of light, is the speed of sight. Science claims that the speed of light is the fastest thing in the universe. Science is dead wrong. Dial a huge telescope in to see a galaxy 13.5 billion light years away and then have a person walk up to the telescope look in the eyepiece and he/she is going to see it immediately. 
Stand inside your house at say 12 midnight with no lights on anywhere around you, step outside and look up into the sky. You will see every star possible in that night sky immediately, dependent on the direction that you look. The star Deneb can be seen with the naked eye and it is between 14 thousand and 7,000 light years away, according to science. You will see that star in the blink of an eye.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> Inspectors are trained and certified, just like any other type trades, don't bundle.
> 
> Saw your profile, I'm currently in Citrus, you?


By the way, why don't you ask the CFI, the CRI and the IICRC, where a carpet job begins and let us know. Thank you


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

You know who said:


> The only thing faster than the speed of light, is the speed of sight.


The only thing I care about is the speed that my invoices get paid.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Jim's been showing his ass on the internet for as long as it's been here Mike. He's wasted untold amounts of bandwidth on his chest thumping "I'm the smartest installer known to man" circle jerk since the old fcimag board and on every flooring related forum since. He's accomplished absolutely nothing. He gathers steam and runs head on into the brick wall anyway though - give him points for tenacity at least. What's the definition of insanity again....


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

What's the market share of carpet now anyway? What was it 5 years ago? What will it be next year? See a trend by chance?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

The above two respondents are retailers, pretending to be carpet installers. It's normal for the carpet retailers to pit each carpet installer against every other carpet installer, by pitting them one against the other for first crew second crew third crew fourth crew and so on.

I would also point out that neither Ted nor precision ever speaks to the subject, they simply use name-calling and innuendo.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

well..that's what we prefer around here


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Jim's been showing his ass on the internet for as long as it's been here Mike. He's wasted untold amounts of bandwidth on his chest thumping "I'm the smartest installer known to man" circle jerk since the old fcimag board and on every flooring related forum since. He's accomplished absolutely nothing. He gathers steam and runs head on into the brick wall anyway though - give him points for tenacity at least. What's the definition of insanity again....


Then why don't you prove your point right here in front of everyone? Pick a topic and state your position, if you're able.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Buy everything that is said and done, the only people paying the price are the installers and the consumers.

Gosh, I'll bet your parents are really proud of you.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

..just go away..we already have enough mountain kings..


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

But then there would be no one to speak for the carpet installers and the consumers.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Tom Struble said:


> ..just go away..we already have enough mountain kings..


 If you sell the consumer 100 yards of carpet, how many yards of padding do you sell them? If we were to look at your records, from everything that I have had to deal with, it would show that you charge the consumers for 100 yards of pad and 100 yards of carpet and yet, you only send out 90 yards of pad with the 100 yards of carpet, meaning you have already stolen 10 yards of pad money from the consumer. Ever since 1971, I have had to take the Paperwork from the company that I worked for to the consumer and the company always told me that if they happen to have ordered too much carpet, that I was to tell them that it was a roll balance that the carpet company purchased from the mills, even when that was an out and out right lie.

We were told by all of the carpet companies to bring all the pad back and all of the carpet back to the shop. Many times there was a whole roll or more of padding that was brought back to the shop, even though the consumer paid for it, according to the paperwork. 

Stop pushing or you may hear things you don't want to hear.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Tom Struble said:


> ..just go away..we already have enough mountain kings..


 There were maybe five or six posts or maybe a few more when I came here on this entire website for carpet. All of a sudden there are a whole lot of posts on here. Did you make that happen or did Percision make that happen or Ted?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Tom Struble said:


> ..just go away..we already have enough mountain kings..


 The only reason you three post here, is to try to defend what cannot be defended, only you don't know that or you are too ignorant to understand that, which is it? 

Not one of you has spoken to the subjects that I have raised.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

Jim Walker is no longer part of CFI.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> Jim Walker is no longer part of CFI.


Kind of strange, the Mills used Jim Walker to get the CFI started, the CRI, the IICRC and more.

Did they just kicking to the curb in or did they give a reason?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> Jim Walker is no longer part of CFI.


The CRI was the fore-runner of the controlling interest, for the sake of the Mills and the retailers.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> Jim Walker is no longer part of CFI.


Whoops, my mistake. The letters in my above post that say CRI, should have been CFI. Certified flooring installer.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> Jim Walker is no longer part of CFI.


 I would have to point out that most of my career was spent in Tampa Florida, even though I worked in Texas, Colorado and 2 others


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

Jon Namba is now running CFI. I don't know Namba. I knew walker well enough to dislike him.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> Jon Namba is now running CFI. I don't know Namba. I knew walker well enough to dislike him.


If you want to know who John Namba is, ask him to detail the Roberts method of installation.

Ask all of those who claim to make the rules and certify installers, if you want the truth.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

rusty baker said:


> Jon Namba is now running CFI. I don't know Namba. I knew walker well enough to dislike him.


 All of today's installation tools, dictate the installation procedures, according to Mr. Roberts and his method of installation. 

Every single so-called inspector, can be beaten in a court of law with nothing more then asking them for the installation procedures, according to the Roberts tools and methods of installation, if that person is smart enough to be able to outline those procedures.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Me, a retailer. That's hilarious. You know nothing of what you speak, in regards to who or what I am. A lot of what you say is absolutely true Jim. Your delivery, however, leaves a metric ****ton to be desired  Just go away. Again, what have you accomplished in all your years of chest thumping?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Me, a retailer. That's hilarious. You know nothing of what you speak, in regards to who or what I am. A lot of what you say is absolutely true Jim. Your delivery, however, leaves a metric ****ton to be desired
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely nothing, because no one will take the challenges and the law doesn't care.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Me, a retailer. That's hilarious. You know nothing of what you speak, in regards to who or what I am. A lot of what you say is absolutely true Jim. Your delivery, however, leaves a metric ****ton to be desired
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a company called precision flooring. If you're not the owner, why are you using that name?


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

There are several companies all over the country with that name dumbass. Why is it any of your concern? I'm using the name because it's the name I did business under in VA when I first joined this forum. I'm now incorporated in FL with a business partner. Precision is also in that name as well. What exactly are you trying to insinuate genius?


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

A simple search of my posts would give you a very articulate picture as to what I am business wise, and what I primarily install (not retail as you stupidly assumed). Instead, your arrogance and laziness has lead you down a path of being dead wrong. I wonder how many times that's happened....


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

You know who said:


> Did you make that happen or did Percision make that happen or Ted?


Hey... leave me out of it. I was just expressing my paranoia about strange people's foot-rot byproducts in the carpeting. My last carpet guy had to reschedule because he developed a fungal infection in his beard. I hate to think where he last pulled up old carpeting.
:blink:


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

tedanderson said:


> You know who said:
> 
> 
> > Did you make that happen or did Percision make that happen or Ted?
> ...


Do you know what seven dust is?


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

You know who said:


> Do you know what seven dust is?


Gettingby, is that you?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

heavy_d said:


> You know who said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what seven dust is?
> ...


 It's kind of funny that none of you were using this website until I came along. It sat idle for quite a long time.

Can any of you keep a website going by yourself and if so why haven't you done it here already? 

Did you know that in the 60s and the 70s, women used to sprinkle sevin dust around the edges of the walls, to kill the bugs and when carpet installers would come in and take the carpet up, as they pulled the carpet up off the tack strips, they were breathing that seven dust in. 

Did you know that there are many more chemicals used for bugs around the walls that we breathe in as we take up the old carpet? Do you know that every time we sweep the floor after a construction project all the things that we are breathing in? I have COPD and a mass on my right lung. Two of my friends in the carpet industry died from such. I know A couple of more installers that are having a harder time breathing. 

There were several types of cleaners that the government outlawed, that carpet installers were using for years. They were cancer-causing agents. 

Every time we cut the carpet and move it very fine particles from the nap float through the air and as we are moving along we are sucking them down into our lungs. 

There is a lot of asbestos in our trade. Do you know why OSHA was never there to protect us, just as the law was never there to protect us from shady dealings by certain entities?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Can any of you detail how long a stretch will last in carpet and if so, how do you tell? Some of you want other websites have said that you guarantee the stretch for 10 years.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Darn talking text phone. It's a blessing and a curse.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Have any of you noticed anything new about seam tape and the glue for glue down carpet?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

You know who said:


> Do you know what seven dust is?


No. I can't say that I know anything about the other six dusts are either.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

tedanderson said:


> You know who said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what seven dust is?
> ...


 Well, you did imply that you were a retailer, so I can understand.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Since there seems to be nothing that those of you that are here care to discuss on this website, do you expect other people to talk to you about this on other websites? 

If so, that means that you really don't like this website, you just come here to get new information that you didn't have, so you can go somewhere else and pretend that you have new things to offer.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

tedanderson said:


> You know who said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what seven dust is?
> ...


 Retailers don't know very much about carpet installation, that's why they are retailers. The Mills don't know anything about the carpet installation, because they make carpet. When the Mills made typar backing and all the trouble that came from that, doesn't that suggest that the mills are ignorant in what they do, depending?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

You know who said:


> Well, you did imply that you were a retailer, so I can understand.


No. You don't understand. I never claimed or implied anything of the such. In fact I happen to be an electrician and I hardly work with anything lower than 18 inches.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

By the way, from everything that is said and equally so, what is not said, inspectors of carpet do not understand carpet very well at all. 

If anyone out there has a big case concerning carpet and you want information to be able to beat these inspectors, contact me here.

I guarantee you, I can beat them .

If the problem is not with the carpet installer or the inspector, then it has to be a problem for the mill.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Nowadays, it is rarely the fault of a carpet installer. That is easily provable. The retailers the inspectors and the Mills always make that claim, so that the consumer will have someone to blame and yet the consumer is still having to pay for the problems caused by other entities or at least one other entity.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

What are the causes for carpet to wrinkle?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

How can carpet installers prove that today's seam tape is much inferior to that of the 80s and 90s?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

There is one very particular setting where carpet should not be directly glued to the floor. Can anyone of you so-called installers tell us what that setting is? Can any inspector tell us what that setting is?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Addendum to my above post. By the way if you do a moisture test in the settings, it will look like it is great for glue down carpet. 

How little the industry and inspectors really know.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

It's OK, you carpet installers, retailers, inspectors and those that claim to certify the industry, can come here for new things to consider and it won't cost you anything.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

You know who said:


> There is one very particular setting where carpet should not be directly glued to the floor. Can anyone of you so-called installers tell us what that setting is? Can any inspector tell us what that setting is?


 This is an addendum to my above post. On those floors in that one particular setting, you should never glue down tile, marble or wood floors.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

You know who said:


> Do you know what seven dust is?


..no..but i do know what sevin dust is..know what bag worm is?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

What one material is going to create and ever increasing problem for the floor covering industry and in how many ways?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Tom Struble said:


> You know who said:
> 
> 
> > Do you know what seven dust is?
> ...


Does that have something to do with carpet?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Me, a retailer. That's hilarious. You know nothing of what you speak, in regards to who or what I am. A lot of what you say is absolutely true Jim. Your delivery, however, leaves a metric ****ton to be desired
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You installers and retailers and owners of those websites, hate me. It's understandable, I bring new thinking to this industry all the time and y'all have nothing to offer other than what you copy and paste from other people. 

Instead of learning new things, all you do is hate what you do not have, so all you do is offer nonsense. You don't speak to the subjects and you make light of whatever is said. If I'm wrong, why don't each one of you tell us one new thought that you have brought to this industry, for the sake of the industry, the consumers and other installers? 

Let's just hear one new thought that you have brought to the science of installation, unless you have nothing in all of these years. I believe it was you that claimed to be on FCImag starting back in 1998 or 1999. Back then they were only a few installers on the website and not any from the general public that any of us knew about. Of course Steve Simonson made the claim that the website did not start operating until about 1999 or 2000. He said that because of all the information that I offered to begin with but then l erased all the work that I had put on his board. I later went back to the board, because he asked me to come back and speak again, which I did and which he promptly copied everything that I wrote and he shared it with the Chinese, so that he could get a foot in with them. Once he copied everything that he wanted, He banned me from the board, kept all my information and then claimed that A great deal of information from the board was lost.

99% of carpet installers have less than a 10th grade education. How much do you think a 10th grade educated man can offer? How much can college educated kids offer? How much can scientists offer? 

Discussing things always leads to more information. However because of how this industry has treated me, I will not give the answers that I know for sure and can prove. I will only ask the right questions.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Thanks Paul, replying from maybe thirty posts ago, I read maybe 10 more, I had a feeling this was this persons (Jim Ryan) state of mind. I haven't delved into the details of what all is going on here in this thread or if it's a matter of importance. I am aware thanks to you Paul of the word troll. In Internet speak, I got no time for that but if there is legitimate talk of a matter, I'm willing to learn, I also know a ****load, and I will gauge your knowledge, it will only help increase mine, I will also call bull**** on you if I see fit. I'm pretty busy so I'm not stalling and I only have this app on the randomly checked I pad. Cheers!


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

By the way, I am always learning new things. Even after 45 years of being on the floor, I'm still installing I'm doing repair work I'm a consultant and a private inspector. Because I get to go back on thousands upon thousands of jobs doing carpet repairs and mostly because of animals, I've learned that psychology, by what they do and in all of the unique settings and all of the new people that I meet and do work for.

To make my point that I have learned a lot of animal psychology from all of these unique settings, those that study animals in the wild claim that big cats mark their territory with their urine, but they never said anything more than that. I have added to that knowledge base by saying that each Pride not only marks their territory with their urine, but they do so with their feces. However there urine and feces also Mark danger zones for the Cubs, such as drop off's thorn bushes and other such things. 

Can any of you tell us how these residential settings and tame animals teach these things?


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

You've been off your meds for a while now, huh? This behaviour is typical of someone with a disorder.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

heavy_d said:


> You've been off your meds for a while now, huh? This behaviour is typical of someone with a disorder.


 With COPD, heart disease and a mass on my right lung, the only thing I take for it is albuterol. In dealing with so much while having to work, it might be nice to have a happy pill. However, any medication reacts differently on every person and with all of the side effects, I'm not a good candidate for anything else, I have enough to deal with. Besides, I don't like doctors and I don't like pills. Well, maybe a happy pill once in a while wouldn't hurt, but then I would have to pay a doctor and then pay for the pills on top of everything else I have to pay for in this condition.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

You know who said:


> You installers and retailers and owners of those websites, hate me.


We don't hate you. We hate gum stuck on carpeting.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

heavy_d said:


> You've been off your meds for a while now, huh? This behaviour is typical of someone with a disorder.


It seems you have carpet installers confused with plumbers and electricians that can afford private healthcare. 

After carpet installers pay for a helper, supplies, gas, tools, truck, phone, insurance and all the other incidentals, they might walk out of there with a whole six dollars an hour. 

How is it that the government was able to claim that carpet installers could be workers comp exempt? 
Since when does the government tell so-called subcontractors, how they can avoid paying for something that everyone else has to pay for? Then tell us why. 

Doesn't the government say that we all have to have healthcare? How many carpet installers would not want to have workers cop in case they got hurt? Do you know how much Worker's Compensation costs in this trade?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

If a carpet installers "back" goes out on him, instead of having insurance to take care of that, our industry gets to dump us on Social Security. If our lungs go out on us from all the stuff we have to breathe, our industry dumps us on Social Security. Our industry also gets to avoid paying for any Social Security, any overtime pay or anything else like that. 

The carpet trade has done that since 1971 that I can prove. The carpet trade is the only one where subcontractors were not on the same page as the retailers. However, by all else that you say, I'm sure that you would not understand those implications. 

Maybe a happy pill would be OK once in a while, if I could afford it.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

In my above post where I say that carpet installers were not allowed to be on the "same page" as the carpet dealers, I meant, in the "Yellow Pages." That means that the retailers got together and bribed the CEO of the Yellow Pages or someone very Highup in the Yellow Pages, just as the retailers got together, forming associations and bribing a few in Congress, to look the other way while they took everything that they wanted from the workers and customers, in a myriad of ways.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Since judges and politicians own carpet companies, there will be no way to get justice for the worker in America, in this industry.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

In my above post I should've said some judges and politicians, instead of a blanket statement.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Because the carpet installation industry that has offered to the carpet cleaning industry, the right to judge carpet installers, in essence they are controlling the carpet cleaning industry to a degree. Is that what the carpet cleaning industry would want for itself? I don't think the cleaning industry knows what's going on.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

At least I hope that the carpet cleaning industry doesn't know what's going on.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

The carpet installation community, that being those who control and that being the retailers, don't judge us because they know what's going on and it would be too hard for them to look us in the eye and say that we are at fault, when they know we aren't. That's why The retailers gave over the inspections to carpet cleaners, because cleaners don't really understand what's going on. I would hope that the cleaners would wake up and choose not to be part of this theft by the retailers.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Tell the IICRC, CFI and the CRI, that I am here to defend what I claim.


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

If carpet installing pays so low, why did you stick with it? Seems like a poor choice, no pun intended.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Maybe now some people will understand why I was kicked off of the sites for carpet installers. As soon as I posted a lot of what I had to say, it was immediately scrubbed. 

At least 90% of carpet installers across the US are controlled by retailers. They set the prices, they set the times and they set the jobs.

The retailers do all kinds of little tricks, so that they and the few that they bribed in Congress will not be held responsible for calling most installers, subcontractors. Buy everything that is said and done, 90% of the so-called subcontractors are not subcontractors, they work for the retailers. 

Basically it takes three things to be called a subcontractor and they are control of your truck and tools, control of your time and control of how much you charge. Since the retailers control 90% of the installers and the installers have no way of telling the general public that they are being cheated to death, the law doesn't care and the news media doesn't care and I've been to 4 attorneys and one mayor which I confronted in a town hall meeting, for which the mayor said there was nothing he could do and he didn't know anyone that could do anything. Oh yeah there was a judge and or judges family and an ex-mayor and present City Councilman, that own carpet companies that I know of. How many lawyers judges and city Council people or mayors or even higher, across this entire nation that own carpet companies? Then one would have to ask themselves why they own carpet companies and that would be because, they can take so much, because the retailers got together and formed associations, that way they could threaten all the carpet installers as well as bride a few in government not to look at this industry. That's why there was no OSHA there to protect us from all the chemicals and all of the construction dust, that does great damage to the lungs. How is it that carpet installers have to clean up all of that fine dust created by all the other trades, on new construction.

How is it that carpet installers breathe in all of those deadly chemicals that kill bugs, chemicals we have been given to use by this industry and are, were, very harmful to humans, while not one entity in the whole of the US told installers to be careful of these things? 

Towards the end of our lives, when our bodies are ravaged and our lungs starving for air, we get to go on Social Security and maybe get between $235 and $800 a month to live on, which we have to pay for co-pays incidentals food housing And whatever taxes they want to levy on us.


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

heavy_d said:


> If carpet installing pays so low, why did you stick with it? Seems like a poor choice, no pun intended.


 17-year-old boys know nothing of subcontract or contract law. 17-year-old boys are what this industry hires, because they have very few choices other than being a gas jockey, a carpenter or something like that. Just because the young man chooses to do a very difficult trade, because he likes it, doesn't mean that anyone has the right to steal from him, especially not the government that claims justice for all in America. 

I didn't know of these things for the first 25 years, until a guy told me what it meant to be a subcontractor.

If you were a carpet installer, you would not be asking these questions. You would just be mad as hell that all of this has been stolen from us and our children. 

There is no excuse in the land of plenty, whereby does in charge are allowed to steal from those that work for them and we work a lot harder than 90% in this country. You try waking up at 6:30 every morning being to the shop by 730 being on the job by 8 o'clock, move a whole house full of furniture out hang all the drapes, Mark and pull all of the doors, lay out somewhere around 120 to 140 yards of tackstrip around all the walls, cut them and nail them all down within a quarter inch of the wall, striking those nails over 1600 times within a quarter of an inch of the wall with that hammer or drilling and pounding in terrazzo pins, over 1000 times in terrazzo floors. If you're lucky enough to have wood floors, that's a whole lot easier. 

Once those things are done then we get to start cutting the carpet, installing the pad, cutting all the seams, heat seaming them all together and As each carpet company vies to get the work, they make the carpet installer do more and more and more seam work by ordering less and less carpet, so the carpet customers will use the cheapest carpet company, while the carpet companies rely on our top-of-the-line work, to get them more work. Then we were taught to me kick in the entire house, trim at all and talk it all, cut off all the bottoms of the doors because most way back in the 70s and early 80s were not cut for carpet, but rather hardwood floors, then we got to hang all the doors back, take all the curtains down carefully, clean up all the trash vacuum the floors load everything on the truck then we get to go home grab something to eat fall in bed and get up and go the next day and do that year in year out, in the residential industry. By the way we also have to move very heavy furniture on a consistent basis, as well as pianos.

In the commercial industry we get to do most all of that except for we don't have to move furniture but yet we have to install a lot more carpet and we have to sweep all those floors with all that dust entering our lungs. 

Why does a man do any job? Just because I like to work hard so that I can stay strong for a lifetime, does not mean that the retailers should be able to steal from me and it's not only the retailers it was the help of Congress or at least a few in Congress. It now comes down to where the cleaners like the IICRC, The CRI and the CFI and more are you helping to rob us even more and judge us, when they have no right.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

You do realize that I am the same person who sent you a couple of private messages, right?


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## You know who (Nov 2, 2015)

Warren said:


> Can we possibly get this back on topic?
> The name of the thread is "carpet laying tips"
> 
> You have offered very little in that regard. If you want to start a new thread titled "Rants from a disgruntled carpet installer", feel free. I will then move all of your posts to that thread.


 I'll tell you what Warren, I will give the industry something new for free, if you give your input first. 

The subject is tacktrip. Tell us what would you do to better tackstrip and why?


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Thread closed.

If any member feels that there is any value in the last several pages of this thread, please PM me so that I can reopen it. Maybe I am just misreading things.


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