# Old home baseboard receptacle install.....



## toddgotfish (Nov 21, 2005)

i am buying a home built in the 50's and re-doing the entire electrical system....
instead of installing new plugs standard height, i thought about putting them in the baseboards.i know that will take the cutting , but when i'm done , the wall 2x4 will be right there and easy to drill thru , drop my wire and go to the next. 
anyone ever used the flex bits for wall swithes, saw one one , but dang 55 bucks sounds like a lot. also have cat 5 for phones and rg6 for catv and i would not have to install a box for them ....what do you guys think???


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Installing receptacles in the baseboard is fine, and to code. In fact, it is often desirable in historical renno's. Use a RotoZip to cut neat holes, and you'll make quick work of it. Drill and Sawzall is another choice, just not mine. For baseboard recs, I use metal boxes with "ears". Each ear has two screw holes. Use a #4 x 1/2" wood screw in each ear, and the box will be held in tightly. This saves you from using expensive old work boxes, which often don't work out for baseboard recs anyhow. 

I have the flex bits, but hardly ever use them. They do have a place for certain tough situations, but most rewires will never require their use. For what you're gonna do, you don't need one. Drill a hole from below, through the bottom plate of the wall. Drop a string with a small weight (fishing sinker, hex nuts, etc.) down the switchbox hole. Fish up in the drilled hole from below with a piece of stiff wire with a bent hook, and drag out the string. Tape the romex onto the string and wire away...


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## toddgotfish (Nov 21, 2005)

thanks ...
i'm one of those cost effective elecs, i just use a regular nail on and rip the nail holders off the sides and just screw the box directly to the floor plate. i have some of the comm. rings for phone and catv.i kinda figured just drilling down the attic plate would be just as good as the flex bit , but they make it looks so easy with those things. gotta get my attic stairs installe first. 
which size cans are you putting in kitchens these days. my kit is small so i thought i'd go with 2x2 fluor in middle and 4 four inch cans in corners ...
thanks again ....:thumbsup:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

toddgotfish said:


> thanks ...
> i'm one of those cost effective elecs, i just use a regular nail on and rip the nail holders off the sides and just screw the box directly to the floor plate.


That's a bold-faced, jumping up and down, red flag waving 110.3(B) and 314.23(B)(1) violation. Cost effective or no, it's flatly not permitted. 



toddgotfish said:


> which size cans are you putting in kitchens these days. my kit is small so i thought i'd go with 2x2 fluor in middle and 4 four inch cans in corners ...


That's a design issue, that I try to stay out of. I see 6 or 7 inch cans going in most kitchens, with 4" cans going in the higher end jobs.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

I always wondered about Smartboxes with regard to this.
Does 110.3(B) let you get away with violating 314.23(B)(1) when using these boxes??
I would think not, but a lot of folks use them regularly.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Speedy Petey said:


> I always wondered about Smartboxes with regard to this.
> Does 110.3(B) let you get away with violating 314.23(B)(1) when using these boxes??
> I would think not, but a lot of folks use them regularly.


I use Smart Boxes liberally, but not for this application. Arlington has their version out now called the "One Box", who's clamps I like a lot more than Smart Box. I havn't had an inspector ever bat an eye about the 314.23(B)(1) issue related to Smart Boxes, but I know it is an issue in other parts of the country. They're manufactured specifically for this use and are UL listed, so I'm using them. Running a few drywall screws in the side of a regular zip box is, without a doubt, a §110 and §314 violation. If Todd feels the overwhelming need to do so, I'd encourage him to use Smart Boxes instead. They're only about a buck a piece, wholesale.


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## toddgotfish (Nov 21, 2005)

you mean , its better to use a pop in box , vs. a nail up with screws securing it to the stud itself. this is a new one on me . man i always liked the solid mount from the screws vs. that pop in junk. so when i go into a house that needs upgrade from a single gang box to a three gang , i should actually go find a 3 gang pop in and , keep in mind the security on one side is compromised due to the closeness of the stud, i should use it anyway?????
i know i know ....code. bbut whats the deal???
did the pop in manufacturers make it to the last code update convention????:biggrin:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

toddgotfish said:


> you mean , its better to use a pop in box , vs. a nail up with screws securing it to the stud itself. this is a new one on me .


Hey, I don't write the rules or even particularly defend them. But, they are the rules we all have to live by. I suppose you have your work inspected, don't you?

And, no, you don't need to use a 3 gang pop in. You could gang three metal boxes and use madisons. You could use a 3 gang smart box. You could bash the wall open and mount a nail on. There are a variety of 3 gang old work (aka 'pop in') boxes available. Some suck, and some are pretty good.


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## toddgotfish (Nov 21, 2005)

i need to get paid for my work....somehow i don't think bashing the wall in to mount a box is going to look to good. i'm no drywall expert you know. where this job is located there will be no inspection. it is my own personal home , so cost is not the objective. i have a preference of which one will perform the best to me. i would much rather have a couple screws in a box , than madisons anyday, hey , i got big fingers.......JMHO


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Md*

What are those one thing called. SAy like you wanted to mount a outlet box on a wall. You cut out the whole them you could use this thing that looks like a battle ship to secure it so you didn't have to nail. Its like a thin piece of metal about four inches long not that wide and you wedge it inbetween the right side of box and the drywall. Then you fold over the two things inside the box and do the same thing on the other side and the box isn't going anywhere. They look like a battleship. I just don't no what there actually called.:thumbup:


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

747 - Madison clips. I call them Oscars...for obvious reasons. 


Todd, who said anything about "bashing the wall in"???
You have to cut the same hole regardless of what box you put in.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Speedy Petey said:


> Todd, who said anything about "bashing the wall in"???
> You have to cut the same hole regardless of what box you put in.


I said that, in a sort of tongue-in-cheek manner. I was simply trying to state that there are several options besides using a pop in box.


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