# Is OSB really any good ?



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Several months ago,i ruffled a bunch of feathers and touched a few nerves by stating OSB is junk. The response was expected. Here we go again.


FineHomeBuilding mag. 7/2013 page #84 Q+A by Scott Gibson.



Last paragraph AVOID OSB SHEATING IN THE FIRST PLACE

"Another strategy is to use plywood or diagonal-board sheating instead of OSB,along with a ventilated rain-screen gap between the siding and the sheating,FINEHOMEBUILDING,senior editor Martin Holladay says. Both boards and plywood are less susceptible to mold and rot than OSB. That's because OSB is made from fast-growing plantation-raised lumber that has a comparatively high proportion of sapwood. Sapwood's high sugar content causes Joe Lstiburek of Building Science Corp. to refer to OSB as "the spam of mold food" ".


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Go ahead and find any unanimous opinion regarding the "building sciences."

Fine Homebuilding mag isn't what it used to be either. I'm getting a little tired of month after month of issues about passive houses and "homes" the size of a tool shed.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> Go ahead and find any unanimous opinion regarding the "building sciences."
> 
> Fine Homebuilding mag isn't what it used to be either. I'm getting a little tired of month after month of issues about passive houses and "homes" the size of a tool shed.


Fine homebuilding is a green movement whore. We used to get good info from them. I canceled my subscription because I'm tired of reading about insulation.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

The plywood we get nowadays pales in comparison to what we got a few years ago. We use to use plywood 80% of the time, no matter the cost. In the last five years, that has probably flipped to 20%. The osb is consistent, and as long as it is covered quickly, remains flat. Plywood is very inconsistent. It can look good when you install, and then a short time later, start moving every which way.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I use OSB on the walls, been using 5/8 CDX on the roofs since I can remember. With the chit CDX I have been getting, Im switching to Adventech for the roofs. Still use 1 1/8 TNG for the floors, but may switch to Adventech there too.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

EricBrancard said:


> Go ahead and find any unanimous opinion regarding the "building sciences."
> 
> Fine Homebuilding mag isn't what it used to be either. I'm getting a little tired of month after month of issues about passive houses and "homes" the size of a tool shed.


I am tired of it too.

But, we have D/B 4 guest houses and two customs under 1200 feet in the last four years. My dad read Susan Susanka and he likes to design small to utilize space properly. 

I like big :laughing:


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Jaws said:


> I like big :laughing:


 That's 'cause you are from Texas:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

fjn said:


> That's 'cause you are from Texas:laughing:


Thats true :laughing:

But bigger house means more jack for me :thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

but it probably is more mold prone,but osb is less delaminating prone:whistling

solid wood planking on a new build? 

I'd like to see that:blink:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

If OSB was so bad when why do they use it for TJI's


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> If OSB was so bad when why do they use it for TJI's


:thumbsup: good point


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I use OSB on the walls, been using 5/8 CDX on the roofs since I can remember. With the chit CDX I have been getting, Im switching to Adventech for the roofs. Still use 1 1/8 TNG for the floors, but may switch to Adventech there too.


Holy chit man!! 1 1/8"??? That's like concrete!


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## FullerFramer (Feb 5, 2010)

There is no comparison to an Advantech or Dryguard type OSB subfloor. 180 day weather exposure guarantee you won't need to sand any joints. It goes together so easily as well. Diagonal board sheathing? Is that article from the '60s?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> Holy chit man!! 1 1/8"??? That's like concrete!


Been doing it that way since I started "screwing off" on my dads jobs as a teen. :thumbsup: 3" screws, Liquid nails, insulate between first and second floor.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Been doing it that way since I started "screwing off" on my dads jobs as a teen. :thumbsup: 3" screws, Liquid nails, insulate between first and second floor.


Damn son! And I thought I was ahead of the competition with 3/4" Advantech....


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> Damn son! And I thought I was ahead of the competition with 3/4" Advantech....


You probably are. Thats why I am looking at switching, as I posted earlier. Quiting CDX roof sheeting would of been like not using expansion clips to me a few years ago. Now, CDX is chit. 

I may try it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I bet its lighter to pack up to the second story......

We build slabs here, unless its a walk out basement, so always a second floor. Staging is a SOB.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

We use 5/8" osb with clips for roofs. Most guys are using 1/2". Slabs are commercial and even then we still do crawl spaces sometimes...most houses are basements.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> We use 5/8" osb with clips for roofs. Most guys are using 1/2". Slabs are commercial and even then we still do crawl spaces sometimes...most houses are basements.


I hate 7/16 OSB on roofs. Flexs to much. 

I know, you damn yankees and your frost lines :whistling:laughing:


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I hate 7/16 OSB on roofs. Flexs to much.
> 
> I know, you damn yankees and your frost lines :whistling:laughing:


Lol..I know. We have done walkouts before that had 12' basement walls...3 under ground and 9 above!


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> Lol..I know. We have done walkouts before that had 12' basement walls...3 under ground and 9 above!


Wow. :no: Another ball game there. 

Basement here is walkout on a hill, like on a lake. Footings with ICF or block for the basement walls.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> If OSB was so bad when why do they use it for TJI's


Because it is within the building "envelope".

And therefore not exposed to "condensation", or "sweating"... :whistling

I don't know, man...

I've used both, I've been around long enough to see 5 ply T&G, de-laminate, AND OSB swell.

The T&G that the lumber yards are being provided now, is not the plywood I grew up with.

The OSB has been getting better, and the plywood has been getting worse: IMHO.

Better resins, to hold the chit together, the T&G we're using for a subfloor addition, right now, "jumps into place".



I think this may be a case of the "older guys" making comparisons based upon "the older" products. (Thanks FHB!) 


Lstribek, Gibson, and the other guy.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

overanalyze said:


> We use 5/8" osb with clips for roofs. Most guys are using 1/2". Slabs are commercial and even then we still do crawl spaces sometimes...most houses are basements.


I recently did an addition where I used 5/8" T&G Zip Roof Structural 1 panels. That thing was solid.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

EricBrancard said:


> I recently did an addition where I used 5/8" T&G Zip Roof Structural 1 panels. That thing was solid.


Wow! Was the t&g a pain on the roof or easy to install?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

overanalyze said:


> Wow! Was the t&g a pain on the roof or easy to install?


It was a pain.... Thankfully, this was only and 8 pitch roof. Most of my new stuff is 12/12. The T&G was delivered by accident. I just wanted regular edge stuff, but since it was there, I said why not. It was over trusses 16" OC.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh yeah..you could land a helicopter on that setup! I definitely prefer clips but only on 2' o.c. 16" o.c. doesn't need clips.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> Oh yeah..you could land a helicopter on that setup! I definitely prefer clips but only on 2' o.c. 16" o.c. doesn't need clips.


Why wouldnt it need clips? They are for expansion.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm still trying to get a feel for what roofing panel I want to use. The T&G was overkill. I had a real small roof tie in for a 6x12 bump out that I used 1/2" Structural 1 zip roof on. That seemed to be plenty solid.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

tenon0774 said:


> Because it is within the building "envelope".
> 
> And therefore not exposed to "condensation", or "sweating"... :whistling
> 
> ...


I also have been around since before OSB. The first OSB was absolute chit, I believe it was called waferboard


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Why wouldnt it need clips? They are for expansion.


They are usually used for stiffness on longer spans. You can space panels for expansion without them.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> I also have been around since before OSB. The first OSB was absolute chit, I believe it was called waferboard


I didn't say BEFORE OSB,

Sorry,

I shouldn't have done that to a seasoned guy...

I'll just sit in my corner and be quiet, for a change.

:drink:


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Why wouldnt it need clips? They are for expansion.


We just space with a nail. Very rare we do 16" o.c. Mostly trusses here.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> We just space with a nail. Very rare we do 16" o.c. Mostly trusses here.


Nice trick :thumbsup: 

Ill remember that one


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

EricBrancard said:


> They are usually used for stiffness on longer spans. You can space panels for expansion without them.


:thumbsup: 

Never tried it, I will look into it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

We don't use those clips either, we use a nail. I wouldn't even know where to get them


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

They may be special order.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

tenon0774 said:


> They may be special order.


I can get 7/16", 1/2", & 5/8" all day long at three suppliers for sure.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

tenon0774 said:


> They may be special order.


The box stores should have them on the shelf. My lumber yard stocks them as well. They are fairly common.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> The box stores should have them on the shelf. My lumber yard stocks them as well. They are fairly common.


I've been sheeting roofs for years and the last time I used a clip was when OSB first came out. I just space with a nail and have been for 15 or so years. Why do you need that clip I just don't understand. I definitely don't have an inspection problem without them.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I've been sheeting roofs for years and the last time I used a clip was when OSB first came out. I just space with a nail and have been for 15 or so years. Why do you need that clip I just don't understand. I definitely don't have an inspection problem without them.


It helps unify the sheets between rafters or trusses on 2' o.c.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

griz said:


> I have seen, not involved, a few roofs sheathed with 7/16" OSB without the 4' butt being spaced blow up.
> 
> After all the dust settled contractor was held liable for not installing OSB per Mfg. specs. Which included 8d nail spacing on short axis.


My neighbor's house had that, was just fixed last week after 20 something years. You could see the end seams through the dark shingles bulging up, could see exactly where the sheets started and stopped.

The first OSB was called Aspenite if I remember correctly


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Is the worry sagging between rafters? Don't seem to have that issue either. Maybe it's for a snow load.


Somewhere I've got pics stashed of a tearoff I did in the U.P. The OSB sagged between many trusses and telegraphed right through to the shingles - no H-clips, not a one.

Every roof I've every seen here in MI has clips (and no, I don't go around checking to see if every builder uses them). Wouldn't allow one without them - even if it weren't code (referring to the 2006 IRC).

When we did condos, had to switch to fire-ply - I could see the stuff sagging from ground level, so H-clips have been used there too.

Even if they aren't prevalent in your area, I wonder if they see more use in Northern Cali?


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

Have only ever clipped 7/16" roof decking. 1/2" and 5/8" never got clips. Just spaced with a nail. 

I've built my fair share in Michigan also, and in my experience, clips were not the norm.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

CarpenterSFO;1777691 One of the "partners" of Joe L's company BSC (i.e. companies who give him money) is Huber said:


> That is a real interesting concept and a very distinct possibility, can you share that data with the group ?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

How are you geeting away with 7/16 on a roof? 1/2" gets clips, it is for the integrity of the sheet, you step wrong or toss a bundle of shingles on that joint and you might end up in their bedroom. 

5/8 T&G makes for a nice roof deck. 

Butts need a nail space.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

We can still use 7/16 on the roof here. I don't think I have put that on a roof in ten years though. When I built my home (18 years ago) I used it on the roof. Didn't know any better back then. I will get a good look at it in the next year or two when I put on new shingles.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The old cheap houses around here had 3/8 ply on them. Then they delaminated and were just about a death wish to walk on.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The old cheap houses around here had 3/8 ply on them. Then they delaminated and were just about a death wish to walk on.


Oh yeah! There was one builder in our area that put up a lot of small homes and apartments in the 70's. All are 3/8" ply. Talk about cheap! The best are the ones someone put 3 layers of shingles over the thin ply. That will make you feel for rafters to walk on.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> One of the "partners" of Joe L's company BSC (i.e. companies who give him money) is Huber, the maker of Advantech and Zip sheathing. Him I don't blame - you don't bite the hand that feeds you. FHB on the other hand might mention that in the world of journalism that essentially makes him a paid spokesperson for Huber





fjn said:


> That is a real interesting concept and a very distinct possibility, can you share that data with the group ?


No one's hiding it: it's right on their web site: http://www.buildingscience.com/partnerinfo/atw-partners


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

overanalyze said:


> Oh yeah! There was one builder in our area that put up a lot of small homes and apartments in the 70's. All are 3/8" ply. Talk about cheap! The best are the ones someone put 3 layers of shingles over the thin ply. That will make you feel for rafters to walk on.


Yep, walking on a roof like that is unnerving - even if it's actually sound, it feels as if ever footstep is going through. And on some of the smaller roofs I've been on, back when they were built, it was all in the name of saving $20.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> How are you geeting away with 7/16 on a roof? 1/2" gets clips, it is for the integrity of the sheet, you step wrong or toss a bundle of shingles on that joint and you might end up in their bedroom.
> 
> 5/8 T&G makes for a nice roof deck.
> 
> Butts need a nail space.


Never heard of anyone using 7/16 we use 1/2 all the time, without clips with no issues and have been doing this for as long as I can remember. and that's since OSB came to the market. we use a nail for spacing. Sometimes we use 5/8 when it's requested. I worked for the biggest framing companies in S. Cal, they never use clips.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Cant get 1/2" OSB here. Only 7/16 or 15/32


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Cant get 1/2" OSB here. Only 7/16 or 15/32


15/32 :yes:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I hate lumber companys. They keep churning out thinner and chittier lumber.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Only 7/16 or 15/32


15/32 16/32 220-221 what ever it takes..... 

1/2" OSB SPECIFICATIONS (Home despot)
Actual product thickness (in.) 0.47 (15.04/32" to be exact)
Actual product width (in.) 47.938 
Assembled Depth (in.) 0.451 in (Before real moisture expansion)

12mm = 0.472441" rounds up to .47" single product for standard and metric

....220-221 or what ever it takes :laughing: you say catsup I say whattaburger condiment of the gods LOL


Ever had lunch on a cold day sitting on a lift of warm OSB? Fresh from the mill.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Texas Wax said:


> 15/32 16/32 220-221 what ever it takes.....
> 
> 1/2" OSB SPECIFICATIONS (Home despot)
> Actual product thickness (in.) 0.47 (15.04/32" to be exact)
> ...


Potato, pototo


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Cant get 1/2" OSB here. Only 7/16 or 15/32


We get 15/32. Actually, since (almost) all our dimensional and composite products in MI come from Canada, I think mebbe everything is metric with "closest to" fractions marked on 'em.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

The only time I've ever seen mold grow on osb is when the roof or wall leaks and its not discovered for a long time. In all the years I've framed out in the pouring rain in the Northwest, I never saw mold on osb. I only saw mold when someone left lumber sitting outside right next to a puddle. Saying osb is junk because its susceptible to mold doesn't make any sense, sounds like you're expecting the house to have leaks. Besides that, whenever you have prolonged water damage you're going to have to do a mold remediation anyway, plywood isn't going to stop it.

As for finehomebuilding, I quit trusting that magazine when I read an article of a guy cutting rafters by hooking his tape to a 12" speed square he had clamped to the board. I guess he never thought of hooking his tape to the other side like everyone else does? Trade magazines I find hard to trust because no one can reply to them like you can online. JLC used to have a section in the front where they would print letters from people who disagreed with things from the previous magazine. Thats o.k but I'd prefer to read articles online where people can write and correct something that isn't right.


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> How are you geeting away with 7/16 on a roof? 1/2" gets clips, it is for the integrity of the sheet, you step wrong or toss a bundle of shingles on that joint and you might end up in their bedroom.
> 
> 5/8 T&G makes for a nice roof deck.
> 
> Butts need a nail space.


SOP in production residential or multifamily work for 7/16" on the roof with clips. We generally push people toward 5/8" OSB. 

Not a fan of plywood. The last time I used CDX on a roof it was warped, out of square garbage. :no:


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

The zip panels can be had in 7/16, 1/2 and 5/8. Prob a few other sizes as well. I've been using 7/16 for the walls and 1/2 or 5/8 for the roof. That small addition I did I used the same 1/2" panel for walls and roof - no sense in switching panels on something so small.


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## 3926 (Dec 7, 2005)

jlsconstruction said:


> If you put a ladder rack on it I give you props


I only had enough room for the beer rack :whistling


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

cranbrook2 said:


> I only had enough room for the beer rack :whistling


Are you going to share :drink:


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## Rob1954 (Jun 22, 2010)

Sabagley said:


> I would say, for pain and suffering. I would not want to do it. No thanks.
> 
> Rob, just curious, how common of a practice is soda blasting for mold?


Blasting with soda is commonly used to clean the surfaces after the mold has been killed with biocides. It isn't a good idea to spray the mold spores all over the structure with a blaster.

Most blasters won't do mold remediation because of the licensing and liability. But many remediation companies will use soda or co2 to clean up after treatment. Nothing wrong with that when knowledgeable experts are involved.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

We're not allowed osb anymore by hurricane code. Advantech is sweet sub-floor after we learned about the use of gold edge. Sat under a bunch of masons blocking second floor and they used as platform needless to say tons of mud sweat and rain. Way worried about what was going to look like after, but it was still spot on. Great stuff.

As for original poster saying world doesn't like our buildings the world also classifies mud huts as "masonry". I spent quite a bit of time in Europe and yes the buildings are mostly masonry but you would get arrested for talking bad about a tree. They are not efficient with building in Europe, but they do use masonry.

The third world country's that i went on missions too asked us to help them lay block. The block were 4"X6" brittle as hell and put together with river sand, clay and some portland and very inconsistently done. Not a piece of steel to be found in any verticals and no such thing as poured cavities.

So yeah, maybe 70% of the world is masonry but telling me that some Europeans don't like the way our houses are built i really don't care. When they say we build fragile, tell them to change France first, they can't seem to find their ass with both hands when it comes to building for defensive purposes... One last point the reason i can build how i want is BECAUSE this is America even though every year we get a little closer to building the dark dismal compounds you desire.

Wood here is stronger than masonry when tied together correctly, so the next time you get the bullchit question why we build our houses so fragile tell them "ya know, i don't know, ask a carpenter". As a mason you should be.more than willing to go to Honduras, Belize, Panama and the list goes on and on where they build "masonry" houses but when a hurricane (cat 2 hits) all of la ceiba is wiped out, or you could tell us in those fragile framed houses here in Florida that when that same storm hits we lose a few shingles. 

But what do i know I'm not in the majority so I'm just stupidly going on experience and not some damn book that makes the rest of the world feel good by making us silly mean guys with red white and blue underwear. Save America... Kick a hippy...

Out.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Deckhead said:


> Wood here is stronger than masonry when tied together correctly, so the next time you get the bullchit question why we build our houses so fragile tell them "ya know, i don't know, ask a carpenter".
> 
> Out.




Thank you for the option to ask a carpenter. I'am just curious and need a carpenters insight.

If your quote is correct (I do not doubt you) could you please tell me why we build our hospitals,schools,court houses,prisons,banks, and heck,even bunkers and bomb shelters out of masonry??


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

fjn said:


> Thank you for the option to ask a carpenter. I'am just curious and need a carpenters insight.
> 
> If your quote is correct (I do not doubt you) could you please tell me why we build our hospitals,schools,court houses,prisons,banks, and heck,even bunkers and bomb shelters out of masonry??


If by masonry, you mean STEEL and concrete. They sure don't build them with the methods in the "hope for architecture" link.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

fjn said:


> If your quote is correct (I do not doubt you) could you please tell me why we build our hospitals,schools,court houses,prisons,banks, and heck,even bunkers and bomb shelters out of masonry??


But, you blasted most of the carpenters that responded to to your first thread, touting OSB is crap, and why aren't builders using 1x6...x8, or plywood material for the racking strength for walls?

...and you summarily ignored most of the posts, because it did not "fit" into your way of building.

That's how they did it back then!?


Look man, I went through that.

As a carpenter and as one who "glommed" onto the old ways, in my apprenticeship through the trades, I have learned many things.

I have ALSO learned, to let go of some of the "perfectionist" ideas about building, go. I was a plywood, guy. Right up until the point when the plywood wasn't the same plywood I was building with 10 years ago. So, by you're reasoning, I need to adopt the 1x6 as my sheathing material?

Have you seen a 1x6, lately?

Can you get a 1x6 that is "more stable" than the plywood or OSB that is on the market now?!

I can tout the "glue" market has come "leaps and bounds" from what it was, back when OSB was in its infancy.

That might not matter, to you.

What I CAN tell you is adhesives, are not the same as they were, 20 years ago.

If you want to build houses with timbers, and wood pegs, more power to you. There is a market for that. (The lumber is not virgin timber, felled on the owners property, but its available.) There is also a different skill set, for that type of work.


We don't manufacture single pane windows, with lead weights in the sashes, anymore. We only "re-glaze" single pane windows for restoration work.

I have a real hard time, justifying your position, based on what I know.

Your posts have been interesting to read, up to and including the archy post about old building techniques, and how they have served many for so long.

What I will say, is most of us work with our clients, within the constraints of a budget, and provide a top notch service, for that budget.

To come out and blast OSB, across the board tells me one of two things:

1) You are young, and don't know what I'm talking about yet,

OR

2) You are on the "restoration" path.

If you are on the restoration "path", please read what I have posted...

If it is the 1st response, then:

...anyone that claims to be a "vegan" and wears Birkenstocks, is an idiot.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I also have been around since before OSB. The first OSB was absolute chit, I believe it was called waferboard


You are a dinosaur then. You probably remember drywall with the circles and diamonds on it, Yankee screwdrivers and maybe even a bit brace:laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Irishslave said:


> You are a dinosaur then. You probably remember drywall with the circles and diamonds on it, Yankee screwdrivers and maybe even a bit brace:laughing:


I've only been around since 1983, and if OSB was around I don't think it was being used for struct 1 shear wall. I remember it being called waferboard though.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> You are a dinosaur then. You probably remember drywall with the circles and diamonds on it, Yankee screwdrivers and maybe even a bit brace:laughing:


You forgot:....

Miter box w/a backsaw

Carpenter carried a tri-square

Carpenters had really good SHARP handsaws....:thumbsup:


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I've only been around since 1983, and if OSB was around I don't think it was being used for struct 1 shear wall. I remember it being called waferboard though.


I'm old fashioned. I resist everything new until it's performance is proven. That said the advantec was or is about the best stuff out there when it comes to weatherproof. Plywood by its cross sectional, cross grain composition is always going to be stronger than OSB, just like a microlam. TGI joists suck, I know the fire dept hates them because they go quick


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Irishslave said:


> I'm old fashioned. I resist everything new until it's performance is proven. That said the advantec was or is about the best stuff out there when it comes to weatherproof. Plywood by its cross sectional, cross grain composition is always going to be stronger than OSB, just like a microlam. TGI joists suck, I know the fire dept hates them because they go quick


I've never heard of a building failure because they used OSB, or TJI's


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I've never heard of a building failure because they used OSB, or TJI's


Me either but this stuff is still relatively new. Dimensional lumber has stood the test of time. I'm thinking it's all based on cost and resource availability. I'm glad I have regular floor joists in my house, Downside? It was built in the 70's and I don't think they believed in using glue on the subfloor. I have so many squeeks though the burglar won't get far


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> I'm old fashioned. I resist everything new until it's performance is proven. That said the advantec was or is about the best stuff out there when it comes to weatherproof. Plywood by its cross sectional, cross grain composition is always going to be stronger than OSB, just like a microlam. TGI joists suck, I know the fire dept hates them because they go quick


Just making a point here, not fighting or arguing....But

An older structure with diagonal 1x sub-floor, 1x wall sub sheathing, 1x or spaced sheathing on the roof and then add Cedar shingles or shakes
and you have a tinder bomb....:no:


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

griz said:


> Just making a point here, not fighting or arguing....But
> 
> An older structure with diagonal 1x sub-floor, 1x wall sub sheathing, 1x or spaced sheathing on the roof and then add Cedar shingles or shakes
> and you have a tinder bomb....:no:


But at least it's structurally stable, and renaissance compliant. :whistling

(maybe not seismic code compliant...)

:whistling


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

tenon0774 said:


> But at least it's structurally stable, and renaissance compliant. :whistling
> 
> (maybe not seismic code compliant...)
> 
> :whistling


If you ever read "The Very Efficient Carpenter" by Larry Haun he talks about how bad 1x sheathing is. He said Carpenters used to all have scared up legs from walking on that chit and suddenly hitting a knot hole and the shards would cut up their legs. He said once plywood came out it was the biggest revolution in his day.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> If you ever read "The Very Efficient Carpenter" by Larry Haun he talks about how bad 1x sheathing is. He said Carpenters used to all have scared up legs from walking on that chit and suddenly hitting a knot hole and the shards would cut up their legs. He said once plywood came out it was the biggest revolution in his day.


I have, I was sarcastically continuing my rant...

:whistling:thumbsup:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

tenon0774 said:


> I have, I was sarcastically continuing my rant...
> 
> :whistling:thumbsup:


It took the legend Larry Haun being mentioned to make you come back around didn't it? ......:thumbsup: :clap:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Irishslave said:


> You are a dinosaur then. You probably remember drywall with the circles and diamonds on it, Yankee screwdrivers and maybe even a bit brace:laughing:


Really? I didn't think I was old but I remember wafer board very clearly too.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

we called it Aspenite back in the before times


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## IrishAsh (Aug 2, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Been doing it that way since I started "screwing off" on my dads jobs as a teen. :thumbsup: 3" screws, Liquid nails, insulate between first and second floor.


I do it this way myself only diffrence is I clamp every eight boards tight and fix wit coil nailer with 2x 50mm ring shank nails per board per joist.....


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Aspenite is/was osb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriented_strand_board


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## wnc viking (Aug 4, 2011)

I remember it being called aspenite and waffer board 25+ years ago . That stuff would get wet and would swell up


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

rrk said:


> Aspenite is/was osb
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriented_strand_board


Aspenite was not OSB originally, Weyerhauser marketed it as waferboard. By definition, waferboard does not have any special orientation of the wood wafers. That's not to say they don't market OSB today under the same trademark.

http://construction.zibb.com/trademark/aspenite/29258655

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waferboard


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

The last answer got the guy $5,000,somebody must have thought it was the correct one. Hey! do not kill me I'm just the messenger.





http://www.city-data.com/forum/house/835849-plywood-vs-osb.html


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

fjn said:


> The last answer got the guy $5,000,somebody must have thought it was the correct one. Hey! do not kill me I'm just the messenger.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What answer?


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

I have alwasy hated MDF as well, but we did use some MDF molding in the basement and I am impressed with it. It held up very well to a flood. It has a very smooth almost plastic like paintable surface. I was surprised. However it does tend to ding and scratch very easily. For molding I will stick with wood in any area that I care about the long term appearance. But if you cannto afford wood, MDF is not a bad alternative. 

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/hous...ubfloor-roofing-engineered.html#ixzz2VDgtghoe

The way I have interpreted your threads about OSB, it seems odd to me, that you would use this particular thread: :whistling

http://www.city-data.com/forum/hous...ubfloor-roofing-engineered.html#ixzz2VDgtghoe

...as a reference for your....


...never mind.

...sarcasm.

...well played. :jester:


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

tenon0774 said:


> Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/hous...ubfloor-roofing-engineered.html#ixzz2VDgtghoe
> 
> The way I have interpreted your threads about OSB, it seems odd to me, that you would use this particular thread: :whistling
> 
> ...





It would seem much less odd and much more apparent if you read the last post on page #1 written by Coldjensens 12-09-2009.


It appears his answer garnered him $5,000, the green square in the upper left side of his post speaks to that effect.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

fjn said:


> It would seem much less odd and much more apparent if you read the last post on page #1 written by Coldjensens 12-09-2009.
> 
> It appears his answer garnered him $5,000, the green square in the upper left side of his post speaks to that effect.


What is your last post on page 1 may not be everyone's last post on page 1


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> What is your last post on page 1 may not be everyone's last post on page 1





If that is the case,then the post by Coldjensens 12-09-2009 is the best directions I know how to give.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

fjn said:


> It would seem much less odd and much more apparent if you read the last post on page #1 written by Coldjensens 12-09-2009.
> 
> 
> It appears his answer garnered him $5,000, the green square in the upper left side of his post speaks to that effect.


And? You are just showing me the opinion of another no-name, no-face, no-background guy on the internet from 3+ years ago like it actually means something. 

Instead of posting links to about.com, city data and books writen by art majors, how about some first hand info and personal expirience?


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## one cut (May 3, 2013)

griz said:


> After all the dust settled contractor was held liable for not installing OSB per Mfg. specs. Which included 8d nail spacing on short axis.


Does the Mfg. actually specify using an 8d for spacing, as I understand it, an 8d can be made in any diameter.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

one cut said:


> Does the Mfg. actually specify using an 8d for spacing, as I understand it, an 8d can be made in any diameter.


Read this, it's a Canadian version but the same in the U.S.....

We used an 8d sinker, never had a problem....:thumbsup:

http://osbguide.tecotested.com/pdfs/en/tm422.pdf


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## one cut (May 3, 2013)

Thanks, good link, I will have to read it later as it is a huge document.
I wasn't trying to be a d-bag, i was just curious if there was an actual spec'ed out measurement for the gap between sheets.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Why wouldnt it need clips? They are for expansion.



The clips are not for expansion they are for board spans. Check out 2003 IRC Table R503.2.1(1), as referenced in Chapter 8 (Roof & Ceiling Construction), specifically, Section R803.2.1.

They are required when using 7/16" or 1/2" on a 24" truss span... If you use 5/8" or you have 16" OC span they are not required. The clips strengthen the panels so you do not have weak points at joints.


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## essrmo (May 2, 2007)

one cut said:


> Does the Mfg. actually specify using an 8d for spacing, as I understand it, an 8d can be made in any diameter.


it ain't rocket science.


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