# Hot Mud



## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

I searched for Hot Mud in here, I though we discussed it before, but can't find it. So I'll bring it up again.

I do a lot of patch work/repairs. I need to figure out how to make Hot Mud so I don;t have to make so many trips back for a small job. 

Is there a way to make this using either the Blue or Green Lid mud? ie: Can I add plaster to the mix and if so how much do I add.

Or do I have to mix it from scratch?

Whats the dry times I can expect from doing this?

Thanks


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

I use sheetrock brand lightweight setting type joint compound in 5 min set 20 min set 45 min set and 90 min set.
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-sheet...-setting-type-joint-compound--pi-1378703.html


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

DuraBond45 Or 90 if you're not so gutsy.


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

In my parts, it is sold in powder form in bags labeled for different working times...5 minute, 20 minute, 40 minute, and 90 minute. Just mix with water in amount you can use in that working time and go. I have a drywall sub that does an entire bathroom with 5 minute. I can't even mix that stuff before it starts going off. I find 5 minute almost unuseable...lol


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

neolitic said:


> DuraBond45 Or 90 if you're not so gutsy.


 
I used to use durabond 15 years ago. cant sand it though. You still need a topping compound if you need to sand.


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## Rich Turley (Apr 9, 2005)

Used 5 min today on two patches. Painted them just before leaving. Had other stuff to do in the house while waiting for it to dry.

Rich


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

send_it_all said:


> In my parts, it is sold in powder form in bags labeled for different working times...5 minute, 20 minute, 40 minute, and 90 minute. Just mix with water in amount you can use in that working time and go. I have a drywall sub that does an entire bathroom with 5 minute. I can't even mix that stuff before it starts going off. I find 5 minute almost unuseable...lol


Not _ALMOST_, for me:blink:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

A W Smith said:


> I used to use durabond 15 years ago. cant sand it though. You still need a topping compound if you need to sand.


True, but I aint all that impatient either. My finisher can leave the stuff so I don't need to sand, if he's in the mood.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

So it looks like I just need to can the can and start mixing my own stuff. I am pretty good with my knives and don't usually need to sand as much as feather out the edge for a seemless look. But I typically do three coats on the walls and 4 on the cealings. So if I could do 2 with the fast stuff and one when I leave, that would be ideal. Then O could come back the next day and finish it up. 


Thanks for the explanations.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

You can use 5 min if you only mix a mud pan at a time. perfect for kitchen remodels where outlets are moved and you need to hang cabinets or paint that day. You can speed the setting time of the slower set mixes two ways. use hot water. or use the dirty water you cleaned the setting compound off your mixing tools with. When i set up for a hot mix job I use three pails. One to mix the mud in. One filled with water to clean the mixing paddle in. and one to hold the *clean water* in to mix with the compound. For the very small batches use a large sponge to add water with. you will almost always get the proportion right. Oh I also clean the mixing pail after every batch.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

Digger1799 said:


> Is there a way to make this using either the Blue or Green Lid mud? ie: Can I add plaster to the mix and if so how much do I add.


Are you asking if you can mix ready-mix joint compound in with mixed Hot Mud (durabond) ??? 

If you are asking this, the answer is an emphatic NO. It throws the pH WAY off. Spikes it up around 12. 

And do NOT mix slaked lime into hot mud either. BTDT, and it also spiked the pH so that even latex would not adhere well. I even tried Diamond Veneer in with Durabond and had poor adhesion of paint. (these were all tests in my own home, no harm no foul) [don't ask me why Durabond can not be mixed with Veneer plaster - they are both gypsum with some lime. Personally I think I did something else wrong, but I ain't gonna experiment on a job]

Get the 90 min hot mud and mix it sloppy and work fast. Keep the room cool (or at least the trough you mixed it in)


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

neolitic said:


> True, but I aint all that impatient either. My finisher can leave the stuff so I don't need to sand, if he's in the mood.


Durabond and mesh tape is great for repairing plaster cracks though because it is tough like automotive bondo. lightweight compound is too soft and fragile.


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## Tmrrptr (Mar 22, 2007)

I use Westpac Fast set 5 Lite, here in CA. I only buy 5min. 18lb bags 7 bucks.

Others use 20min... I don't like it.
45 or 90min??? never use them.

But I;m a t/u guy. Lots of repairs and patches.

I'll do a small room with fast set and mesh tape, but any more than that it's regular boxed mud and paper tape. Paper tape IS superior!

Anyone can learn to use fast set... I had to! There was no choice, to be competitive.
r


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## Tmrrptr (Mar 22, 2007)

*been there*



A W Smith said:


> You can use 5 min if you only mix a mud pan at a time. perfect for kitchen remodels where outlets are moved and you need to hang cabinets or paint that day. You can speed the setting time of the slower set mixes two ways. use hot water. or use the dirty water you cleaned the setting compound off your mixing tools with. When i set up for a hot mix job I use three pails. One to mix the mud in. One filled with water to clean the mixing paddle in. and one to hold the *clean water* in to mix with the compound. For the very small batches use a large sponge to add water with. you will almost always get the proportion right. Oh I also clean the mixing pail after every batch.


A W Smith has been there!

I mix a box at a time, and use milk jugs for water supply.
And I DO clean out my mud box every time.

I apply mud sparingly. Easier to fill a valley than sand down a mountain.
I hate sanding and breathing the dust.
Fastset Lite does sand easily, but my goal is to maybe hit it with a sponge just a little, then a minimum of pole sanding to feather the edge.
5min has qualities the other fast setting mixes don't have...
And I fully agree with him on hot water, or dirty water!
r


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

I have found that if I need to sand, I will spray the area with water and hit it with a sanding sponge then go over it again with my knife...no dust.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

Festool makes a great sandless sander.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

daArch said:


> Festool makes a great sandless sander.


I know you meant Dustless. 
but that sounded funny


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## aWorkaHolic (Oct 1, 2007)

I can't believe no one mentioned......

When you mix fast set mud, only mix what you can apply. Or you'll spend more time cleaning the mud pan and waisting material then actually applying it on the walls.


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

aWorkaHolic said:


> I can't believe no one mentioned......
> 
> When you mix fast set mud, only mix what you can apply. Or you'll spend more time cleaning the mud pan and waisting material then actually applying it on the walls.





send_it_all said:


> In my parts, it is sold in powder form in bags labeled for different working times...5 minute, 20 minute, 40 minute, and 90 minute. Just mix with water in amount you can use in that working time and go. I have a drywall sub that does an entire bathroom with 5 minute. I can't even mix that stuff before it starts going off. I find 5 minute almost unuseable...lol


 Someone did.


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## aWorkaHolic (Oct 1, 2007)

lol, all you said was you couldn't use it. Here's tip, use cold(Ice in the water bucket helps) water to retard the chemical reaction. It will buy you time to apply it.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

A W Smith said:


> daArch said:
> 
> 
> > Festool makes a great sandless sander.
> ...


thanks, I did. It was late and after the game, my tongue got in front of my eye tooth and I couldn't see what I saying


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## banctecbobn (Dec 30, 2005)

Anyway to slow up the drying time on the 90 minute stuff????

How much time does the ice cold water add to the workable time??????

I like the advantages of hot mud (sticks the tape good, sets hard, and little shrinkage) but I'm slow at taping. Seems I spend a ton of time cleaning tools and buckets with every batch. 90 minute seems to only work for about 30 minutes before becoming unworkable. Only use the hot to set the tape, use dark blue lid for the second and top coat. Wish I could find 180 or 240 hot mud.


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## kgphoto (May 9, 2006)

Mix your hot mud in 1 , 3, or 5 gallon buckets depending on how much you need and how fast YOU can apply it.

Then dump it on a hawk and clean the bucket immediately, will take 15 seconds or less. Us the hawk till the mud load is gone and then wipe down with sponge, another 5-10 seconds. Mix the next batch.


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## raven2006 (Dec 19, 2006)

I mix 20 min with multi purpose mud all the time. Just a little bit tho..it takes a little longer to actually dry but it sets up in 20 min so you can put on another coat. I don't care what they say, straight 20 min mud is almost impossible to sand properly, I always do the last coat with regular mud


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

banctecbobn said:


> Anyway to slow up the drying time on the 90 minute stuff????
> 
> How much time does the ice cold water add to the workable time??????
> 
> I like the advantages of hot mud (sticks the tape good, sets hard, and little shrinkage) but I'm slow at taping. Seems I spend a ton of time cleaning tools and buckets with every batch. 90 minute seems to only work for about 30 minutes before becoming unworkable. Only use the hot to set the tape, use dark blue lid for the second and top coat. Wish I could find 180 or 240 hot mud.


 
Ive never had 90 min go off in half an hour. But I have had it take 2 1/2 hours. I suspected there was something in the local tap water. are you using clean water? if you dont let it slake a bit and mix it again sometimes a batch that is not thoroughly mixed will start to get a bit stiff. when it actually goes off in your pan you will know because the consistency will become that of oatmeal. 

another thing I stopped using a hawk and trowell almost 20 years ago. I use stainless mud pans and knives. I have a holder for my pan and tape that clips on my belt. The holder will speed things up. 
http://www.tooldogs.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=MT-MP228


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

raven2006 said:


> I mix 20 min with multi purpose mud all the time. Just a little bit tho..it takes a little longer to actually dry but it sets up in 20 min so you can put on another coat. I don't care what they say, straight 20 min mud is almost impossible to sand properly, I always do the last coat with regular mud


You mix setting with drying ?? (ah, I see from your previous posts you do this often).

There is a paper hanger in Atlanta who says he has tested the pH of patches with this mix and he got readings of 12 and higher. This level of alkalinity not only "burns" wallpaper, causes saponification of oil paint, but SERIOUSLY degrades adhesion of waterborne paint. 

Please test the pH of your dried surfaces to make sure you are not creating HUGE problems for those who follow you. 

thanks

-Bill


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

daArch said:


> You mix setting with drying ?? (ah, I see from your previous posts you do this often).
> 
> There is a paper hanger in Atlanta who says he has tested the pH of patches with this mix and he got readings of 12 and higher. This level of alkalinity not only "burns" wallpaper, causes saponification of oil paint, but SERIOUSLY degrades adhesion of waterborne paint.
> 
> ...


Also. Doesn't it even say on the pail specifically NOT to mix it with other products?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

A W Smith said:


> Also. Doesn't it even say on the pail specifically NOT to mix it with other products?


That little bit on the label has always scared me off of even trying the dish-soap-to-prevent-bubbles-in-the-corner bead deal. What can I say, I'm a sucker for instructions not written in hieroglyphics.


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## raven2006 (Dec 19, 2006)

I have seen my walls after they were painted many times and definately no problems. Most of the time I put a layer of regular mud on top, but even when I haven't no problems. You don't have to add much, about 2 handfuls of 20 min to half a bucket of all purpose. It goes on so much smoother and easy to sand. i've tried the soap in the mud too, works great!


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

Raven, 

I called USG about this today and you could hear the guy wince. the best he could say was, "we do not recommend this"

I would SERIOUSLY reconsider mixing products until you know the chemical reactions between all the ingredients. Unless of course you've earned a degree in chemistry and at minimum know the difference between Plaster of Paris, Gypsum plaster, and calcium sulphate, and the path to go from calcium carbonate to calcium hydroxide

I've heard of people mixing Portland cement with plaster thinking it's OK since they both contain lime. This is a BIG no no for those who know.


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## outsidethelines (Oct 19, 2007)

I have gotten to the point that I can float spackle in one to two coats so that it is tight enough that I hardly have to sand at all. However, I was told recently that it is best to do at least two to three coats so that it will be strong enough or hard enough or something. It was some guy at Home Depot. I mean obviously if I am spackling over a deeper hole or something, I can understand that, but I was just talking about floating some areas where the old paint split leaving long paint fissures. You know, like what you see in bathrooms sometimes where it almost looks like the paint shrunk on the walls and ceiling. Anyway, is there any reason one should add more if you get it the first time? When I am spackling over the fiberglass tape (wall cracks), I can get it in one to two coats also. Do I really need more if it looks good the first time? I swear, after it is primed and painted, you cannot even tell there was anything there. 
BTW, I have never heard of or ever tried 5 min. mud. I stick with the 45 and use lukewarm water. Does the dry time affect the quality of the product? In other words, would 5 min. be denser than 90 min?


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## Builtbybeck (Feb 2, 2006)

*sanding alternative for Durabond*

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to share that I've made a lot of quick one trip patches with setting type mud very quickly. I tape the joint or hole with the really fast setting stuff. As soon as it's fairly hard I mix a new batch and spread it as close as possible, then when it's almost set I wet it with a spray bottle and start smoothing and feathering with a wide knife. You can just keep repeating this letting the surface almost harden then wet it and smooth it more until your satisfied. The last one I did this way was ready to paint in about an hour! I would say it's more a plastering technique than drywall but it works.


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