# painting paneling



## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

I have a panelled house I have to paint. I would pull the panelling, except then I lose all the moldings. also, there is extensive surface raceway wiring on top of the panelling that I would have to pull and reinstall.

so the short version is that the paneling is going to get painted.

NOW, the question is... CAN I skim coat it without taping it? If so, then I can fill the grooves and sand out quickly and cheaply.

If not, then the skim coating is going to be a major production that I will avoid. At which point I'll just (zinsser 123 prime and) paint over the paneling and leave the grooves as style lines.

So... if I just mud up the grooves without tape... how bad would that be, really?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Are the seams covered with strips ?


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Seems to me if you went through the trouble of filling and/or taping the grooves taking down the paneling would be a better option. I certainly wouldn't tape them, if there's any movement at all the mud will crack and fall out especially at the seams.

I would paint it as is or take it down.


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## mnld (Jun 4, 2013)

Prime it, then caulk any gaps that show. Then finish paint. you'll be surprised how nice it looks. The caulking is key. Do a good job of that and it makes all the difference.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

doh! acrylic painters caulk for the win!

I can probably plaster the grooves, then caulk the joints.

I'll try one wall and see how it turns out (in time, materials, and results).

Thanks for expanding my horizons!


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

blacktop said:


> Are the seams covered with strips ?


If they are, I'll be pulling them.


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## Joe thehandyman (Jul 2, 2010)

I've filled grooves in paneling many times with good success.

Sometimes its more about what else you have to remove to get the paneling off than the wall prep ( baseboard heat, finished trim , ETC)

Joint compound shrinks too much. Use 45 or 90, two coat and then sand, prime & paint

Testing on 1 wall is a good idea.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

There is a product made to go over paneling similar to wallpaper. It's made to be painted though. I'm sure a wallcovering store could help with locating it.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

Joe thehandyman said:


> I've filled grooves in paneling many times with good success.
> 
> Sometimes its more about what else you have to remove to get the paneling off than the wall prep ( baseboard heat, finished trim , ETC)
> 
> ...


Right, when I said "mud em up", I meant easysand 45 or 90. I never use bucket mud on anything... except maybe a 3rd or 4th finish coat. I don't think I've bought one bucket of mud in the last 2 years.

So in your experience, 45 or 90 won't fall out of the cracks?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

agcinc said:


> 45 or 90 won't fall out of the cracks?


Bucket mud would have a stronger bond to bare wood. (More glue)... if you use hot mud...just add a little white glue to the mix.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

blacktop said:


> Bucket mud would have a stronger bond to bare wood. (More glue)... if you use hot mud...just add a little white glue to the mix.


How much white glue per water? half and half? 25% glue/75% water?

Is that viable, or should I find the acrylic bonding additive?

Can I mix one brands additive with another brands quick set?

gurg.


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## mnld (Jun 4, 2013)

Just buy some white Elmers or titebond and add about a cup to a bag of setting mud. Sticks like you wouldn't believe.
I buy it by the gallon, pretty cheap that way.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

agcinc said:


> How much white glue per water? half and half? 25% glue/75% water?
> 
> Is that viable, or should I find the acrylic bonding additive?
> 
> ...


Blacktop can give you his recipes. White carpenter's glue I'll use maybe 5-10% in the water. For high strength / flexibility / high bonding I use Durabond with 25% acrylic admix in the water - Acryl 60, but any will do.

Yes, you can mix these different additives with any hot mud.


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

I have done it before on 1/4 wood paneling with good results.If it's the old 1/8" Masonite stuff I would not even mess with it.It will cup and bow on you just from the moisture in the primer and paint. nless attached very good.Paneling is pretty vague word.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

mako1 said:


> I have done it before on 1/4 wood paneling with good results.If it's the old 1/8" Masonite stuff I would not even mess with it.It will cup and bow on you just from the moisture in the primer and paint. nless attached very good.Paneling is pretty vague word.


Its 1/8 paneling (probably plywood and not masonite as it's old stuff).

From what I've seen the paneling is solidly attached. it doesn't have bowed areas where it's pulled away from the wall. But I will inspect again carefully before starting.

I planned to prime and let it dry well first... as that can serve as a partial moisture barrier.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Blacktop can give you his recipes. White carpenter's glue I'll use maybe 5-10% in the water. For high strength / flexibility / high bonding I use Durabond with 25% acrylic admix in the water - Acryl 60, but any will do.
> 
> Yes, you can mix these different additives with any hot mud.


No recipe really. I just pour the glue in the water till I think It's about right then add my powder. You would think adding glue to hot-mud would cause It to turn quicker ..But IME ..It gives you a little more time Before It sets . I use the Gorilla wood glue .

To be honest ...I hate hot-mud!!! I only use It where needed. 
I hate mixing It. Carrying all the water it takes. Cleaning the buckets and tools .The way it reacts when running A/P over top of It !! It's a pain in the ass!! But I use a lot of it!! Only when and where needed.



I was thinking about this thread today ...The OP May be on to something here... If I could hang all my 8' walls with cheap wood paneling then just caulk the seams and fill the grooves ...I could save tons of time !!!:laughing: I'd make a fortune!!!:thumbup: Hell! It would probably turn out better than some of this chitrock I finish out.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

hdavis said:


> Blacktop can give you his recipes. White carpenter's glue I'll use maybe 5-10% in the water. For high strength / flexibility / high bonding I use Durabond with 25% acrylic admix in the water - Acryl 60, but any will do.
> 
> Yes, you can mix these different additives with any hot mud.


Anyone know anyplace in NEPA or Long Island that stocks any brand of acrylic admix? The idea of calling 40 places and trying to explain what I'm looking for just does not appeal to me. Ideally someplace around WilkesBarre that's open on Saturday mornings.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

blacktop said:


> No recipe really. I just pour the glue in the water till I think It's about right then add my powder. You would think adding glue to hot-mud would cause It to turn quicker ..But IME ..It gives you a little more time Before It sets . I use the Gorilla wood glue .
> 
> To be honest ...I hate hot-mud!!! I only use It where needed.
> I hate mixing It. Carrying all the water it takes. Cleaning the buckets and tools .The way it reacts when running A/P over top of It !! It's a pain in the ass!! But use a lot of it!! Only when and where needed.
> ...


And when they turn up the stereo it will buzz like a riced out Civic rolling by. lol


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

agcinc said:


> And when they turn up the stereo it will buzz like a riced out Civic rolling by. lol


I cant hear it from my house!:whistling :laughing:


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

I still remember those old paneling nails.I hated those things.Estwing use to make a plastic cap to go on their trim hammer heads so it didn't beat up the painted head .They didn't work to good.Showing my age now so I'll shut up.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

mako1 said:


> I still remember those old paneling nails.I hated those things.Estwing use to make a plastic cap to go on their trim hammer heads so it didn't beat up the painted head .They didn't work to good.Showing my age now so I'll shut up.


And you had to paint the studs black where the seams broke. ?:laughing:


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

Only if you used the really cheap stuff.At least I'm not alone here.Makes me feel a little better.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

60s paneling is still the best.:laughing:


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## mnld (Jun 4, 2013)

hdavis said:


> 60s pant suits are still the best.:laughing:


Fify!!


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

agcinc said:


> Anyone know anyplace in NEPA or Long Island that stocks any brand of acrylic admix? The idea of calling 40 places and trying to explain what I'm looking for just does not appeal to me. Ideally someplace around WilkesBarre that's open on Saturday mornings.


Maybe Probuild down in wilkes barre? I haven't found anywhere with a deep selection of drywall supplies.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

I finally found SikaLatex at the orange big box and I'll be adding it to USG easysand 90.

Its sold in diluted gallons for $12 which is close enough to concentrated gallons for $35 that get mixed 3:1 with water. 

I'll report back on results once I've used it.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

philcav7 said:


> Maybe Probuild down in wilkes barre?* I haven't found anywhere with a deep selection of drywall supplies.*


I can't even find Strucolite in NEPA / S / WB. Truly unbelievable, considering how many old plaster houses are around.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

OK, So time for the an UPDATE.

Used the SikaLatex ready to mix gallons with EasySand 90.

First, the stuff is just hateful to work with. It's like mixing plaster into thinned down paint to give it volume. (Which open my mind to other possibilities that can be useful when patching a wall with texture to it, but I digress).

It's touchy to mix... to thin, too thick, too thin, to thick, ok that will work.

It's even touchier to work. Getting too thick in my mud tray. I started putting only one trowel in the mud tray (it wasn't setting up in the bucket) and eventually I ended up sprinking water in my mud tray and continuously retempering while I worked. The stuff dries on the tools while working, and take an vigorous scrubbing to get off. Ended up having to full scrub the mix the bucker, tray, and knives for each batch, and had to mix small batches to keep it from setting up. Ugh.

now as to the results... I am just floored. I found seams in the panelling that were floating over open space w/o a stud. That panelling was stiff, like 3/16 masonite with almost full 3/32" grooves, so it wasn't flapping in the wind... but still even knifing the mud the panels would flex. I was thinking, there's no way this is going to work, I'm goung to have to tape at least these 2 or 3 joints.

But when the first coat set up and I was second coating it... this stuff had bonded and fixed the panels to each other, and I honestly think it's going to hold them in place. Unbelievable.

No now the big question is... how does it sand and fininh? I'm afraid its going to be s*** to sand and i'll end up top coating with regular mud just so I can get a sanded finish. I'll find out in a week or two when I get back to take the next step.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

agcinc said:


> No now the big question is... how does it sand and fininh? I'm afraid its going to be s*** to sand and i'll end up top coating with regular mud just so I can get a sanded finish. I'll find out in a week or two when I get back to take the next step.


I don't know about EZsand, I usually am using the additive with Durabond. With Durabond, don't bother trying to sand, just take a carbide scraper (I use a 2" one) and scrape the high spots off, then AP to finish. EZ sand should also be closer to trying to sand a primed surface, but let us know - I've never tried it. 

With the modified Durabond, a lot of times the coat won't crack, but you can have adhesion failure. I've seen it pull oil based paint off the wall at a joint. Eventually the thin layer will fail with further abuse, since it isn't being supported any more.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

FWIW, I've tried brushes, scrub sponges, and 3M green pads for clean up. My favorite is the 3M.


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## agcinc (Apr 1, 2015)

Final Follow up...

the stuff doesn't sand... its like sanding paint. but topping with AP and sanding worked great. The walls finished out remarkably well... you walk into a room and if you really look you can make out some vertical pattern, but if I really cared I could have primed, top coated, and then primed with a slight texture (ie rolled on primer thickened slightly with plaster)... but really the results are shocking.

Thanks for the tips guys! The latex addmix really did the trick.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

agcinc said:


> Final Follow up...
> 
> the stuff doesn't sand... its like sanding paint. but topping with AP and sanding worked great. The walls finished out remarkably well... you walk into a room and if you really look you can make out some vertical pattern, but if I really cared I could have primed, top coated, and then primed with a slight texture (ie rolled on primer thickened slightly with plaster)... but really the results are shocking.
> 
> Thanks for the tips guys! The latex addmix really did the trick.


Glad it worked out for you!:thumbsup:


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I would have just painted it. You better use those peal and stick picture hangers. I can visualize the cracks popping if you try to pound a nail into it.


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