# Covering asbestos floor tile



## snabin (Apr 17, 2015)

Hey everyone, new to this forum. I have a question that I was hoping would have a somewhat simple answer, but no such luck. I'd like to begin by stating that I am by no means a flooring expert. I am an electrician by trade and I've worked around enough asbestos to know it's bad news, but I'm no expert with that either. 

I am buying a house and close next month, and one issue I have is there are asbestos floor tiles in the basement. We have considered getting it removed, but like most people we found the price to be too high so we are going to plan B.

We decided to floor over it, but the problem is the tiles are chipped and broken in one room, so it's a very uneven surface. I'm thinking now of using a leveling compound to level the floor and then vinyl tile over it. But then I thought why not just concrete over it and paint it to save some money. It is a basement after all. 

Reading further, the common theme I saw was to have a "barrier" between the asbestos tile and the new flooring. With that said, would it be a smarter idea to stick with the original plan of tiling over it? I'm not against a few extra dollars if it means my family will stay safe. 

I would be so happy if someone could help, even a little. I'm unsure of the exact dimensions but one room is approx 20'x10' (utility/laundry room) and the other is approx 8'x8' (workshop). Thanks for hearing me out!


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

What state? Covering it only delays the inevitable and adds to the problem. RFCI has recommended practices for your state. 

So moisture vapor up through slab,which is most likely is not good. Breathable material such as carpet allows the moisture vapor to be controlled by hvac/de humidifier. Problems occur when this moisture is blocked by say vinyl tile, laminate, adhesives, paint.

Bonding to a slab is also an issue, and the cutback as well. There are things you can do, though they are specific and pricey. Don't do anything till you fully understand what your doing to avoid throwing away money. 

Porcelain is my only recommendation. Even that should be determined to be feasible.


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## ccoffer (Jan 30, 2005)

The whole asbestos scare is crap. If you're freaked out about it, pour a bucket of water in the floor and then go to town. If it's really asbestos tile (vat) it will probably come up like its just laying there dry. Cutback doesn't last forever.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Some very good information in posts #2 & #3....:thumbsup:


I have to agree that covering it up just delays the inevitable...

and that there is a lot of hype about the dangers of VAT....


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## snabin (Apr 17, 2015)

Mike, I'm sorry but could you dumb that down a little for me? I'm a little confused as to what you're saying so lamens would help. There doesn't appear to be moisture (if that is what you're saying). Also, why porcelain if you don't mind me asking? All I've heard of people doing is vinyl, mainly because it is thin, so it doesn't create a big lip from the adjacent room. My wife has a picture of the actual floor, but I happened to find a picture online that looks identical to the tile we have, just to give you an idea what I'm working with. And the tile in the workshop is ripping up all over the place.


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## Dave in Pa (Oct 10, 2009)

I am not a flooring guy, BUT~ If the floor is lifting, you have a moisture issue, that tile is 20+ years old, if it was lifting way back then, there would not be any left!!!

To cover over OLD, LIFTING tile is a problem. You need a good base to glue to! And to put carpet in to "cover" the asbestos, IN MY OPINION is bad!! The fibers can be moved by walking, and air movement through the carpet, and get air borne.

And to put down a laminate floor/ with a vapor barrier ONLY traps the moisture BELOW the surface, then you can/will get mold, or the smell of the musty stuff! 

I have removed lots of them, and in my OPINION only, they smell/slimy/and smells like S*#&! It DOES get real gross under the floors we do pull up!


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Dave in Pa said:


> I am not a flooring guy, BUT~ If the floor is lifting, you have a moisture issue, that tile is 20+ years old, if it was lifting way back then, there would not be any left!!!
> 
> To cover over OLD, LIFTING tile is a problem. You need a good base to glue to! And to put carpet in to "cover" the asbestos, IN MY OPINION is bad!! The fibers can be moved by walking, and air movement through the carpet, and get air borne.
> 
> ...


That's a PASSIONATE response, there DAVE!!! Relax! 

[Edit: I'm not a floor guy, either....but did this a couple different ways over the years]

If it were me, I would one of these depending on how lazy I felt:

1) If I'm really lazy, I patch it, then put down carpet.

2) If it's solid, I might patch the bad parts and tile over (ceramic, porcelain, whatever) with good thinset. (The less lazy method.)

3) Or, if I felt more ambitious, I would remove it myself. Two step process: First, wet it, let it sit and the tiles will pop right up with a floor scraper. Shovel it, bag it, trash it. Keep it wet and wear a mask. Next thing to do is scrape the cutback off (warning; don't track that oily black stuff around - be prepared to toss your shoes. Tile it.

4) If you're really anal about it, follow #3 by using soy gel solvent to remove it. That's a one day job with boots, bean-e-doo, a bunch of sawdust, then their recommended neutralizer. (It's really nice to have a floor drain to do all this)


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

ccoffer said:


> The whole asbestos scare is crap. If you're freaked out about it, pour a bucket of water in the floor and then go to town. If it's really asbestos tile (vat) it will probably come up like its just laying there dry. Cutback doesn't last forever.


If they "primed" the floor with a 50/50 kerosene/cutback primer applied with a mop, came back the next morning and applied the cutback with a 1/16" notch and rolled ASAP with a 100 lbs roller------GOOD LUCK popping that up. 

water won't touch it if it was done "to specs" from back in the day. 

The picture the guy shows looks more like asphalt tile. But it could be VAT. What would help loosen the bond would be a very high alkalinity in that old pour. That's actually what eats/dissolves the old cutback where it was applied thin without primer over a dusty, nasty old basement floor. Yeah, I done that too. 

You never know. That's my experience from a lifetime of doing pretty much ONLY resilient floors for the most part. 

You never know. 

Then again YEAH! Wet it down and take an idiot stick to it. If it's stuck down like hell ---------then let's talk about Plan B.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

If the tiles are down SOLID enough there are various "slip sheep" membranes like Halex brand Versashield and Altro Everlay that will separate your resilient or carpet install from a DIRECT BOND to an existing problematic condition. 

These are both great products. You DO have to prepare beneath the slip sheet properly as you'll need a smooth, clean, solid substrate. That should be pretty easy. 

Find the spec sheets online for the above mentioned product to narrow down the choices of flooring that will work in your basement. 

Carpet in a basement? 

Whatever.


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## snabin (Apr 17, 2015)

Dave, there is no moisture. The tiles are not lifting, they are chipping and crumbling, I guess from wear and tear. I suppose that's what scares me the most. If it was contained I would just leave it.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

BKM Resilient said:


> If they "primed" the floor with a 50/50 kerosene/cutback primer applied with a mop, came back the next morning and applied the cutback with a 1/16" notch and rolled ASAP with a 100 lbs roller------GOOD LUCK popping that up.
> 
> water won't touch it if it was done "to specs" from back in the day.
> 
> ...


Point taken. But it it was done anywhere around Arlington, VA it'll come right up.


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## snabin (Apr 17, 2015)

Yes BKM, it's asphalt


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

snabin said:


> Dave, there is no moisture. The tiles are not lifting, they are chipping and crumbling, I guess from wear and tear. I suppose that's what scares me the most. If it was contained I would just leave it.


Really Mr. Snabin? 

*NO* moisture in a basement? That's as likely as me playing shortstop and batting leadoff for the Pittsburgh Pirates this season. What you mean is you haven't stepped into an inch PUDDLE of water. Moisture exits besides in oceans, rivers and puddles. It's in the air. It's in the earth. It's in you concrete. I promise. 

There IS moisture PASSING THROUGH the asphalt tile, especially at the seams. It brings caustic salts with very high alkalinity to the surface. THAT is what's dissolving the adhesive and disintegrating the asphalt tile. I promise. 

Still, if it's minor just wet it down, scrape, chip loose crap and vacuum or mop up any smegma and proceed as directed above. The slip sheets I've described are designed EXACTLY for this reason. Without ever having seen YOUR basement I know what it looks like, feels like and *smells* like. You do realize that MANY MANY billions of square feet of asphalt tile were glued directly to concrete? There are right ways and wrong ways of doing things. You're going to tap around with a hammer. If it's hollow sounding BURST that **** out ASAP. 

Easy Peasy.


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## snabin (Apr 17, 2015)

I totally understand there is moisture everywhere, especially in basements. However, the foundation is sound and they have never had moisture issues. That's my only point. And I do appreciate your direction to remove the tile, but I have zero interest in messing around with asbestos. That's what this whole project is all about. Call it a bandaid or whatever, but I have no interest in putting myself at risk for tiles, and I have even less interest in paying thousands to have people remove it professionally.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

snabin said:


> I totally understand there is moisture everywhere, especially in basements. However, the foundation is sound and they have never had moisture issues. That's my only point. And I do appreciate your direction to remove the tile, but I have zero interest in messing around with asbestos. That's what this whole project is all about. Call it a bandaid or whatever, but I have no interest in putting myself at risk for tiles, and I have even less interest in paying thousands to have people remove it professionally.


OK, no big deal. Look into those products I mentioned. They'll get you through the night Sir.


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## snabin (Apr 17, 2015)

I appreciate the help BKM


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Ok moisture vapor- doesn't really apply to every day people. But in the flooring industry it creates hundreds of Millions in failures yearly.

Moisture/water in slabs from the mix causes failures of adhesives when flooring is placed over top and is trapped.

Moisture moves, just not to California lately. It shouldn't be trapped but allowed to be controlled movement.

Right now, your vinyl/tile breathes, vapor is moving up through slab.(I'm assuming, due to no barrier under slab or breached/deteriorated?) and into air. Solid vinyl is less permeable, trapping moisture which will probably be some kind of issue.

Maybe send a sample to Western Analytical Lab to test it and adhesive to confirm asbestos. Some people don't care about asbestos, it's us in the industry that will suffer the consequences, normal folk won't breathe enough of it. Silica as well that we breathe, they may race to the finish line in my body to see which one wins. Plenty other things in life to worry about.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

I had 9"x9" asphalt aspestos tiles throughout my whole house UNDER the nasty, nicotine saturated. brown, shag carpet. 

Burst all the **** out and threw it in the regular trash cans. 

*LEGAL* and logical. But is it safe?

Think I'm worried about the health consequences? Yeah, sure. After SANDING and tearing out about ten hundred zillion, billion square feet of asphalt and VAT I'm really sweating over the 946 square feet in my own home. You can just imagine.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah, I guess you just add it to the tally. 

Snabin, I don't know if you've read about it, but it's kinda hard to get that in the air to breathe just sitting on the floor. Busting it up gets it airborne.


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## snabin (Apr 17, 2015)

Mike, yes I did read that, but my worry is that the tiles are broken up now. So all I can picture in my head is a little bit of dust kicking up every time I walk by, or the cats getting at it, or even worse, my future children being exposed. Maybe I'm being over dramatic, but I'd rather that than have potential health risks. I think you have a good suggestion and I will just send it out to be tested. Maybe it isn't even asbestos after all (but I think it may be)


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