# How do you respond...



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

It's been a little while, but I've told people, "That price is unbelievable! Call him right now and take it before he changes his mind! Call me if it doesn't work out." Some of those folks will call you back the next day with some story about how it didn't work out.

Those are generally the people who I think are BS-ing me.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

Usually these types of people are cheap, haggling PITAS. But in today's era of HGTV and DIY network they might actually think that is how things are done. Depending on how they behave towards you it might worth trying to educate them. Explain how it immediately turns tradesmen off of wanting to work for them.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

Depends.. If i have a chance to make some quick money and i have to drop a few bucks or dont get the job ill work with the customer. If i make $925 on a job instead of $1000 im fine with it. Better than making $0.00
I do agree its lame to show another contractors bid. It might happen once a year for me


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Ironically while reading this, I got a call from a homeowner who wanted me to quote some work because the quotes he got he thought were to high.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I am rarely asked to compete with another contractor's quote but I just went through this on a hardwood flooring job. They told me the other contractor's quote. I priced the materials and wondered why he was low. I asked them for specifics on the estimate They said it included "everything" I said "everything" isn't specific enough for me.

It turns out they were quoted the wrong flooring, left out needed molding and other labor costs. I got the job at my higher quote.

I normally just tell clients no thanks unless the other contractor's quote isn't that far off. Those times I want see their quote with specifics, almost always I find an error, something they missed or something they're doing in a manner i don't recommend.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

You can always ask then if they are willing to take home less money from work. :whistling


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Funny thread. As are all the "customer wants me to lower my price" threads.

On the other hand, its a sure sign the economy has recovered - because contractors now have customers to indignate their pride.

Negotiated prices go on everywhere: the car you buy, the cost of paint at SW... that fixer upper ranch. People never had any qualms about attempting to negotiate me down on a new home. 

It's the contractors fault to not anticipate that.

Never found it hard to say "Yup, that's my price - let me know so we can schedule."

It rolls off the tongue so easy.......


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm working on a 7day job where my bid was almost 10x what the other guys was for the same job. if they know you do good work they won't try and negotiate you down on price. 

The problem comes when they are new customers and your price is a lot more than the other bids they get. As someone said when there's such a big difference in price there should be alarm bells ringing. You wouldn't believe how many times I get called back to do the job right and tear out what the other guys did. Most times these guys total bids are less than my material cost alone.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I had a brief discussion with a guy who saw me doing work at a neighbor's house where I put up a nice cedar fence. He asked for a quote for his fence and during the discussion said something that's a 'money' flag to me. I took the next opportunity to state that I will NOT be the cheapest then added some more info re: quality and attention to detail and turned it around by pointing out the other work that he's had done is good quality.


Stand your ground. If there are difference in materials or labor, sell your quality (assuming you are) as the difference. I've had a couple cases many years ago and signed most of them by discussing what made my proposal better. 

good luck!


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Spencer said:


> Statistically a customer who is aggressive with you at the beginning on price is going to be that way the whole way through the job. I don't like dealing with that.
> 
> I'm spoiled. Being a one man show I can be pretty picky. I choose not to deal with it because I don't have to.
> 
> ...


I have been asked numerous times in the last couple months alone to submit a bid as several potential customers are "taking bids" on up coming jobs. My standard response is that I do not bid agaInst other contractors on jobs, it is never fair pricing as I include everything and there will be no cost changes or "up sales" unless it is a serious unforseen issue that could not be planned for. Additionally my quality of work speaks for itself and please call any previous customers. 

I tell people straight out I am not the cheapest, turn people away every few days as I am too busy...works for me. I have worked for penny pinchers before and hate every minute of it. They value the dollar over the quality of work, no way will they ever see the piece of art that you built them, they will always see how much it cost them.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Hell yeah I'd love to see the competitors estimates. Most are vague yet confusing. 


Why wouldn't you want to see the competitors offer and for how much?

I'm with NY Gutterguy I might drop my price up to $100 on a $1,000 job. Not because I am over priced, but because my time is worth at least that to drive over and meet them.

Presentation should always trump a lower price.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Roofcheck said:


> Hell yeah I'd love to see the competitors estimates. Most are vague yet confusing.
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't you want to see the competitors offer and for how much?
> ...


If you aren't charging for the trip out there then your time is valued at zero to the home owner.


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## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

I recently had this happen 
Customer had two other quotes for a project, they were hoping I would come in less then the other two
Of couse, I was higher then the other two. They told me the other prices after I gave them mine
I said i could come in at a lower price if the sow would change
I was honest with them and told them that I don't feel the need to lower my price, I stay more then busy enough and sell quality with a guaranteed price on the job
The other issue we had was they wanted a full materials list for the job, I said no
I explained that if we both agree on a price for a completed project, it shouldn't matter how many boards or how much they cost to get the job done
They are buying a completed project per plan and specs, not individual boards
Guess I'll see what happens with it in the next few weeks


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

This just happened now. Looked at a nice size house today. Just emailed a price and he asked if I could match the other estimate he received from a local guy 

Difference of $300 on a $3500 job. Material is $600 and will take me and my crew about 5 or 6 hours max. I find it hard to believe that some of the guys on here wouldn't work with the customer to get a job where there is potential to put 2k in your pocket. No brainier for me. 


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I wouldn't. I hate people.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

NYgutterguy said:


> This just happened now. Looked at a nice size house today. Just emailed a price and he asked if I could match the other estimate he received from a local guy
> 
> Difference of $300 on a $3500 job. Material is $600 and will take me and my crew about 5 or 6 hours max. I find it hard to believe that some of the guys on here wouldn't work with the customer to get a job where there is potential to put 2k in your pocket. No brainier for me.
> 
> ...



Because some of us are so slammed with work where the customer pays what we are asking there's no point in turning down that work to take on work that pays less. I could understand it if you was having trouble pulling in work and needed to reduce your rates. I have had to a few times in the winter when I first started to keep the cash flowing.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

BCConstruction said:


> Because some of us are so slammed with work where the customer pays what we are asking there's no point in turning down that work to take on work that pays less. I could understand it if you was having trouble pulling in work and needed to reduce your rates. I have had to a few times in the winter when I first started to keep the cash flowing.



I'm totally slammed. 3rd best year out of 22 I've been in business. I'd put off one of my Regulars contractors for a day of so for 400 an hour for easy work. 


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I recently got this email from a HO asking if I could match another guys quote for a roof (I was at $6800). I asked to see his quote. The homeowner emailed me this from the potential contractor.

"We would be able to knock this roof out for $5,300.00. That's full roof removal down to decking. Ice barrier on entire perimeter, synthetic under lament, lifetime architectural shingle with a 30 yr limited lifetime warranty that's transferrable up to two times."

I responded by telling her that doesn't tell me anything and is obviously two different levels of products. Haven't heard back.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Because some of us are so slammed with work where the customer pays what we are asking there's no point in turning down that work to take on work that pays less. I could understand it if you was having trouble pulling in work and needed to reduce your rates. I have had to a few times in the winter when I first started to keep the cash flowing.


It's also different when its that much profit on a one day project or perhaps a half day.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

NYgutterguy said:


> I'm totally slammed. 3rd best year out of 22 I've been in business. I'd put off one of my Regulars contractors for a day of so for 400 an hour for easy work.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



But if you take the work your busy enough to fill that slot with your full rate instead of reduced rate! 

That's like me having a $35k kitchen booked in then a customer calls me to install a $30k and I do the $30k instead and let the other customer down for $5k loss. I doubt that $35k customer would hang about and wait another 6months for me to get there or I could piss of every customer already scheduled and put them all back.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

BCConstruction said:


> But if you take the work your busy enough to fill that slot with your full rate instead of reduced rate!
> 
> That's like me having a $35k kitchen booked in then a customer calls me to install a $30k and I do the $30k instead and let the other customer down for $5k loss. I doubt that $35k customer would hang about and wait another 6months for me to get there or I could piss of every customer already scheduled and put them all back.



I get it. But I'm only gonna be at this guys house for 5 hours. Nobody will miss me 


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Handy Craftsman said:


> The older I get the more I think I should at least explain why I won't work with them. Maybe educate them a little.


You don't really have to explain anything. When they call you back offering to pay your price, chances are that they've had all of the education that they need.. and it came at a very hefty price.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> It's also different when its that much profit on a one day project or perhaps a half day.



That's exactly why most contractors won't discount their price. He's clearly making a good return on that job even with a discount. I'm sure 99% of his work ain't priced with them kind of margins to work with. 

I have priced jobs 2-3x higher than I would normally so I didn't get them. Some accepted my price but I still told them it would be X amount of time till I could get there and they would be coming after other paying customers. There's no way I would have discounted that price and jumped them ahead of other customers. 

Now if I could do that job in half a day I would just go in on a Saturday and knock it out but I still wouldn't discount it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I always tell them I can't lose money just because the other contractor is.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I think it matters on the time frame. If it was three or four days work for 3500, no way. If it is one short days work, no problem.

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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> But if you take the work your busy enough to fill that slot with your full rate instead of reduced rate!
> 
> That's like me having a $35k kitchen booked in then a customer calls me to install a $30k and I do the $30k instead and let the other customer down for $5k loss. I doubt that $35k customer would hang about and wait another 6months for me to get there or I could piss of every customer already scheduled and put them all back.


You can't really compare full kitchens to gutter jobs. ...that's not even apples to oranges, more like apples to beans


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

*How Do You Respond...*



A&E Exteriors said:


> You can't really compare full kitchens to gutter jobs. ...that's not even apples to oranges, more like apples to beans



Not sure if that was put down or not but Depends on the gutter business. The last ten working days I've grossed 28,000. Material cost was little over $7000. Me and two guys 


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

NYgutterguy said:


> Not sure if that was put down or not but Depends on the gutter business. The last ten working days I've grossed 28,000. Material cost was little over $7000. Me and two guys
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But you're not just a gutter guy. You're the nygutterguy on the very top of your game.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

SamM said:


> I wouldn't say I wouldn't work for them. It can be a red flag for sure, or I can just be someone who was taught to do that by a friend or family member (or HGTV. I've seen advice like that on different websites too).
> 
> I would start by going over the competitors quote to find out why I'm higher. Are we comparing apples to apples?
> 
> ...


It's not my job to do the due diligence for the customer. They have both quotes, they can make the comparisons. If you waste your time trying to save these kinds of clients you are missing those that are willing to pay your asking price and understand your value.

I am often tempted to ask for the other guys quote, but that quickly fades when I look at the stack of upcoming jobs as well as the stack of quotes I need to get out or visit.

Upcoming jobs:








Quotes:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

NYgutterguy said:


> This just happened now. Looked at a nice size house today. Just emailed a price and he asked if I could match the other estimate he received from a local guy
> 
> Difference of $300 on a $3500 job. Material is $600 and will take me and my crew about 5 or 6 hours max. I find it hard to believe that some of the guys on here wouldn't work with the customer to get a job where there is potential to put 2k in your pocket. No brainier for me.
> 
> ...


Why didn't you quote it $300 less to begin with? That's what I don't understand. Did you not need that money? I need everything I quote, otherwise I wouldn't quote it. If you can't justify it, it shouldn't be included in your price in the first place.

The problem with lowering your price is you confirmed what the client suspected, that you were no different than the other guy, but just wanted to make a few extra bucks off him. He will go on to tell his buddies how he didn't let that gutter guy pull one over on him.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Why didn't you quote it $300 less to begin with? That's what I don't understand. Did you not need that money? I need everything I quote, otherwise I wouldn't quote it. If you can't justify it, it should be included in your price in the first place.
> 
> The problem with lowering your price is you confirmed what the client suspected, that you were no different than the other guy, but just wanted to make a few extra bucks off him. He will go on to tell his buddies how he didn't let that gutter guy pull one over on him.


That's not true. There's jobs I couldn't done just fine by quoting it 5 grand cheaper. Doesn't mean I should've.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Roofcheck said:


> Hell yeah I'd love to see the competitors estimates. Most are vague yet confusing.
> 
> 
> Why wouldn't you want to see the competitors offer and for how much?
> ...


Your time is worth paying the customer to drive over and meet them? That doesn't make any sense what so ever to me.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> That's not true. There's jobs I couldn't done just fine by quoting it 5 grand cheaper. Doesn't mean I should've.


What is not true?


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

I have no set price. I look at every job and come up with a price based on how quick I can get it done or how may pricker bushes I'll have to crawl through or it might be a great neighborhood to get into etc.. The third price was 4700 so I actually was the middle guy price wise. 

3 estimates will usually be all over the board price wise. My friends who have 4 salesman and a larger company are always more. The guy with just a helper will be usually less. I'm often in the middle 


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

NYgutterguy said:


> I have no set price. I look at every job and come up with a price based on how quick I can get it done or how may pricker bushes I'll have to crawl through or it might be a great neighborhood to get into etc.. The third price was 4700 so I actually was the middle guy price wise.
> 
> 3 estimates will usually be all over the board price wise. My friends who have 4 salesman and a larger company are always more. The guy with just a helper will be usually less. I'm often in the middle
> 
> ...


But you set the price and when you did so, didn't do it by throwing a dart at a board with prices on it. You calculated what you needed and wanted to make.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

TNTSERVICES said:


> But you set the price and when you did so, didn't do it by throwing a dart at a board with prices on it. You calculated what you needed and wanted to make.



After all these years I still hear "oh nice you're cheaper than the other estimates" or "how can you be so much more than the other guys". Maybe one day I'll figure it out lol


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> But you set the price and when you did so, didn't do it by throwing a dart at a board with prices on it. You calculated what you needed and wanted to make.


I understand where he is coming from.

Give the $300 off and still make a few thousand dollars for a half/full day or don't give anything off and never have that opportunity to make that money from that same homeowner again.

It isn't like you're knocking 10% off a job that is going to take multiple weeks and coordination with multiple subs.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> What is not true?


I don't necessarily need everything I quote. I want it but that doesn't mean I need it. I try to bid the job for as much as I can and still get the job. I have a minimum amount I need but it's not necessarily the price I quoted.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I understand where he is coming from.
> 
> Give the $300 off and still make a few thousand dollars for a half/full day or don't give anything off and never have that opportunity to make that money from that same homeowner again.
> 
> It isn't like you're knocking 10% off a job that is going to take multiple weeks and coordination with multiple subs.


I guess I don't. Makes it look like you were gouging and didn't need the $300.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't necessarily need everything I quote. I want it but that doesn't mean I need it. I try to bid the job for as much as I can and still get the job. I have a minimum amount I need but it's not necessarily the price I quoted.


Need and want are not really different. They are all about perspective. You don't need anything but Food, Shelter and Water, beyond that everything else is a want.

But if I want to live a certain life style, I need the price I charge.

I want to give vacation time, sick time, new trucks, office, wharehouse, sales office, 6 months reserve, and so one, but need to charge $***X.XX to achieve those.

I bid a job for exactly what I want and need. I can't and won't do it for less unless they reduce the scope.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Need and want are not really different. They are all about perspective. You don't need anything but Food, Shelter and Water, beyond that everything else is a want.
> 
> But if I want to live a certain life style, I need the price I charge.
> 
> ...


I bid a job for the most I can and still get it. That's usually a lot more then I need. It has nothing to do with what I want. I want a gazillion dollars for each job. I need enough to keep the doors open and survive. What I bid it for may and probably will be neither.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> I bid a job for the most I can and still get it. That's usually a lot more then I need has nothing to do with what I want. I want a gazillion dollars for each job. I need enough to keep the doors open and survive. What I bid it for may and probably will be neither what I need or want.


I see both sides, I really do but I bid for what the job costs, not what I want to make. Never thought of it like that, I figure it as this is what it costs the business to do this job, I make x amount because I own the business and work for it but the figure I gave is what I value the job at in my experience. I do not drop prices a bit because it is what I value the job at and granted that can be subjective but it is what "I" feel it should be. Good enough for me I guess...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

brhokel606 said:


> I see both sides, I really do but I bid for what the job costs, not what I want to make. Never thought of it like that, I figure it as this is what it costs the business to do this job, I make x amount because I own the business and work for it but the figure I gave is what I value the job at in my experience. I do not drop prices a bit because it is what I value the job at and granted that can be subjective but it is what "I" feel it should be. Good enough for me I guess...


I charge for my decks what the market will pay. There's a minimum but that's never an issue. If I'm crunching numbers to find out my costs to bid a job imo I'm bidding way too close for comfort.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> I charge for my decks what the market will pay. There's a minimum but that's never an issue. If I'm crunching numbers to find out my costs to bid a job imo I'm bidding way too close for comfort.


I do want to add there was a time I was using job cost to determine a quote, but I don't use that anymore. I leave a lot of money on the table like that.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I bid a job for the most I can and still get it. That's usually a lot more then I need has nothing to do with what I want. I want a gazillion dollars for each job. I need enough to keep the doors open and survive. What I bid it for may and probably will be neither.


My point is most of everyone's bid is a want and not a need, but you still need to bid that number to get what you want. I am just not willing to sacrifice what I need to bid to get what I want out of life.

How many jobs this year did you lower the price to get the job?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Need and want are not really different. They are all about perspective. You don't need anything but Food, Shelter and Water, beyond that everything else is a want.
> 
> But if I want to live a certain life style, I need the price I charge.
> 
> ...


So I have a kitchen and bath remodel job that you bid at 90k, with a 40% gross profit on it.

I call you and say "Rob, I really like what you're company offers and I like you. I had another guy come in at 86k. If we can meet in the middle, I'll sign the contract and get you the deposit right away."

Would you turn down the job?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Example. If I can make great money selling decks for 30 bucks a s.f. But there's enough people in my market that'll pay 45 per s.f. to keep me busy, I'm going to charge 45 all day long. 

Notice I didn't say "the going market price" I said enough to keep me busy. So if it gets to a point I'm not getting enough work to stay busy. ( and I think it's because of my high prices ) then I might lower my price accordingly.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> My point is most of everyone's bid is a want and not a need, but you still need to bid that number to get what you want. I am just not willing to sacrifice what I need to bid to get what I want out of life.
> 
> How many jobs this year did you lower the price to get the job?


It's rare I even consider it. If I do it's not because I needed to. Honestly I'm considering it right now, but it's because it's a *****'n job and it looks fun and easy. I was seconds away from sending in my blanket response to someone asking me to lower the price. So I'm going against my own policy and considering it.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> Example. If I can make great money selling decks for 30 bucks a s.f. But there's enough people in my market that'll pay 45 per s.f. to keep me busy, I'm going to charge 45 all day long.
> 
> Notice I didn't say "the going market price" I said enough to keep me busy. So if it gets to a point I'm not getting up enough work to stay busy. ( key words here "and I think it's because of my high prices") then I might lower my price accordingly.


You might be right, I have never looked at what the market would pay, it's always been this is what it costs. I might be leaving money behind but I really don't like doing that. Maybe it's because I haven't done enough to figure that out, cause I have bid way too close and even lost my ass on jobs. See, I might be able to learn new things, lol.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

brhokel606 said:


> You might be right, I have never looked at what the market would pay, it's always been this is what it costs. I might be leaving money behind but I really don't like doing that. Maybe it's because I haven't done enough to figure that out, cause I have bid way too close and even lost my ass on jobs. See, I might be able to learn new things, lol.


There's no such thing as what you should make, imo, it's what can you make?


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

What is fun (kind of) is when the customer doesn't want a bid, they just want you to do their job because of previous jobs you have done for them or your reputation. On one right now which this was the case, a month in I explained we needed to sit down and talk money because this was getting out of control and I did not want to shock them with bill at end. Hit them with a stupid number, all good, paid 50% immediately and are still constantly adding in extras which they are gladly paying. Kind of nice, might be a decent Xmas for the kids.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

brhokel606 said:


> What is fun (kind of) is when the customer doesn't want a bid, they just want you to do their job because of previous jobs you have done for them or your reputation. On one right now which this was the case, a month in I explained we needed to sit down and talk money because this was getting out of control and I did not want to shock them with bill at end. Hit them with a stupid number, all good, paid 50% immediately and are still constantly adding in extras which they are gladly paying. Kind of nice, might be a decent Xmas for the kids.


Actually, I will never do that. Never. My prices are high, I'm not going to give them any opportunity to get upset after I've done the job. Not only is it illegal which means they would legally owe me nothing without a contract, they need to know beforehand so they can opt out if they want.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

brhokel606 said:


> What is fun (kind of) is when the customer doesn't want a bid, they just want you to do their job because of previous jobs you have done for them or your reputation. On one right now which this was the case, a month in I explained we needed to sit down and talk money because this was getting out of control and I did not want to shock them with bill at end. Hit them with a stupid number, all good, paid 50% immediately and are still constantly adding in extras which they are gladly paying. Kind of nice, might be a decent Xmas for the kids.


Another thing about this. If I hit them with a high number without ever giving them a heads up then it could be considered taking advantage of them. If I give them a high number before I start that's different. 

It was when I really changed my mindset is when I started making a good living. 
My concerns are now "I wonder if I charged too much?" Instead of "I hope I charged enough". 

Huge difference there.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> So I have a kitchen and bath remodel job that you bid at 90k, with a 40% gross profit on it.
> 
> I call you and say "Rob, I really like what you're company offers and I like you. I had another guy come in at 86k. If we can meet in the middle, I'll sign the contract and get you the deposit right away."
> 
> Would you turn down the job?


I would never have a kitchen and bath remodel with a gross profit of 40%. And If I did bid it that high it was for good reason. Either there was a PITA factor or I was too busy to really want to deal with fitting it in. Either way I wouldn't take the deal. As I said before, I don't play the price game. No need to.

If I am reduced to just a price war, I haven't done my job. I should have sold my value and why I deserve the whole ask. Why would the customer want to meet half way? Because they know that I am the better choice and now just want to save a few bucks. Well, I want to make those few bucks. I see that they are the ones that are losing me over a few thousand, not the other way around.

Since I have taken this attitude towards my price, I have never been busier. I don't need to worry about trying to negotiate based on price.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I would never have a kitchen and bath remodel with a gross profit of 40%. And If I did bid it that high it was for good reason. Either there was a PITA factor or I was too busy to really want to deal with fitting it in. Either way I wouldn't take the deal. As I said before, I don't play the price game. No need to.
> 
> If I am reduced to just a price war, I haven't done my job. I should have sold my value and why I deserve the whole ask. Why would the customer want to meet half way? Because they know that I am the better choice and now just want to save a few bucks. Well, I want to make those few bucks. I see that they are the ones that are losing me over a few thousand, not the other way around.
> 
> Since I have taken this attitude towards my price, I have never been busier. I don't need to worry about trying to negotiate based on price.



And that folks is what a stellar reputation will get you...:thumbsup:

and why I emphasize it so much.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Example. If I can make great money selling decks for 30 bucks a s.f. But there's enough people in my market that'll pay 45 per s.f. to keep me busy, I'm going to charge 45 all day long.
> 
> Notice I didn't say "the going market price" I said enough to keep me busy. So if it gets to a point I'm not getting enough work to stay busy. ( and I think it's because of my high prices ) then I might lower my price accordingly.


That's market pricing, not price based sales. If you lower your price based on market price that is a necessity to stay in business. People won't pay what they won't pay. We are talking about when the market will bare $45 and you are being asked to accept $30. Whey would you accept $30 when you are busy at $45?

I know people will say that I can't stay busy at $45, but that may be simply do to market ignorance. I was market ignorant at one point. I thought my market was the only market and I priced accordingly. When I was encouraged to raise my prices to break out of my market, I was skeptical and hesitant, but I tried it. There was a bit of a correction lull when I did so, but that was to be expected. I was losing my old clients while collecting new and better ones. After a period of time I was swimming in great well paying clients. And after a period I did it again. I lost a few more but opened up a huge market, one that I never dreamed was out there.

What I know now is that there is several more layers before I reach the top and that is what I have my sights on. I don't have time to go backwards. I don't have time to start looking at price based projects.

I go in asking budget questions from the first phone call. If my bid was with in their budget I better damn well be able to meet and overcome their objections. I better be able to correct the error in their thinking, and if I can't, I failed somewhere along the way. I failed at reaching them or understanding their needs and true budget.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> It's rare I even consider it. If I do it's not because I needed to. Honestly I'm considering it right now, but it's because it's a *****'n job and it looks fun and easy. I was seconds away from sending in my blanket response to someone asking me to lower the price. So I'm going against my own policy and considering it.


But there is more value in it than just getting the job. I have bid lower on projects that I knew would grow me as a contractor and as a person. I took them to add to my portfolio so that I could reap the benefits of it on future jobs, or I just wanted to work with someone, but it was never at their request. It has always been my initial offer, not their counter.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

brhokel606 said:


> What is fun (kind of) is when the customer doesn't want a bid, they just want you to do their job because of previous jobs you have done for them or your reputation. On one right now which this was the case, a month in I explained we needed to sit down and talk money because this was getting out of control and I did not want to shock them with bill at end. Hit them with a stupid number, all good, paid 50% immediately and are still constantly adding in extras which they are gladly paying. Kind of nice, might be a decent Xmas for the kids.


I had one a few weeks ago. I was called on a referral to investigate a leak from a bathroom. They had several plumbers and contractors out previously to investigate and charge them serious coin to do so. None could locate the problem.

I came in and quoted them fixing the leak issue as well as what I have long defined as an estimate (a range of numbers). In this case I quoted her $25-$31k for the master remodel. Not a huge project, but a good one. She called me a few days later and said, what do I need to do to get you here to fix this leak and what to sign and give you to get on your schedule for the master.

She was willing to give me a check with little details on her bathroom. We had only one meeting and because of my rep, she wanted me. She didn't care about price.

Those are the customers I am willing to spend time with and cultivating. They have friends!!!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> But there is more value in it than just getting the job. I have bid lower on projects that I knew would grow me as a contractor and as a person. I took them to add to my portfolio so that I could reap the benefits of it on future jobs, or I just wanted to work with someone, but it was never at their request. It has always been my initial offer, not their counter.


I agree! I would take another look at my business model if I was leaving behind dissatisfied customers. But in 13 years of getting reviews on a leading manufacturers website I've never had anything but 5 stars. Not to mention the referrals. Those reviews are all real too. They get the card about 2 weeks after completion with their warranty package in the mail. Don't get me wrong I'm a review whore, I tell my customers right out of the gate I'll do whatever it takes to get 5 stars from them. 

The other thing that's nice about having plenty of money in a job is the fact you can bend over backwards to make things perfect for the client without a bucket full of extras to tag them with or stressing on the money. Make damn good money, and going to work is fun no matter what a pita the job is. Imo it's a win for everyone. 

The motto I live by is "Always under promise and over deliver"


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That's market pricing, not price based sales. If you lower your price based on market price that is a necessity to stay in business. People won't pay what they won't pay. We are talking about when the market will bare $45 and you are being asked to accept $30. Whey would you accept $30 when you are busy at $45?
> 
> I know people will say that I can't stay busy at $45, but that may be simply do to market ignorance. I was market ignorant at one point. I thought my market was the only market and I priced accordingly. When I was encouraged to raise my prices to break out of my market, I was skeptical and hesitant, but I tried it. There was a bit of a correction lull when I did so, but that was to be expected. I was losing my old clients while collecting new and better ones. After a period of time I was swimming in great well paying clients. And after a period I did it again. I lost a few more but opened up a huge market, one that I never dreamed was out there.
> 
> ...


Everything is put in perspective, my intentions are to wind down, maybe get to a point I'm only doing mobilhomes where I can have a crew do without me on site. So in essence I want to go backwards "a little bit". I'm hoping to be completely done in 9 years or less. I'll be 60. I actually had plans to be done already, but college tuitions and life events delayed that. But I've got my eye on the ball now. I hope!


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