# Handyman vs Contractor



## Tom R

the_turd_man said:


> But look im just telling flat out what handy man means here regardless of wether it angers you it shouldn't. It should enlighten your knowledge of trade terms by region.



I'm not angry at all.

And you repeating it over and over does not make it so.

I just don't think it's me that needs the 'enlightenment' here.

I'm speaking of HANDYMAN in the 'broad' (real) sense of the term.

It's you who are limiting it to 'East Gabip'.


----------



## ruskent

Out here in NJ, the people in the rich hoods have their own personally handyman. I've worked on 3 jobs in the last year where the homeowner had a carpenter/handman on the payroll. They'd do everything, tile, trim, paint, remodel etc. All 3 had the same guy working at the house for years.

They work alone so it takes them like 5 months to do anything. But it kinda made me have alot more respect for a 'handyman'. All three of these guys were extremely knowledgeable on so many different trade. Very smart guys.


----------



## fez-head

the_turd_man said:


> FLORIDA MIRRORS CALIFORNIA NOW........................................
> Keep in mind Contractors sitting on boards as board members enacting changes in the codes keeps the new guy out and competition sparse
> it creates a demand in the market which keeps profits up. Its a good system if you can break in to it.
> 
> But look im just telling flat out what handy man means here regardless of wether it angers you it shouldn't. It should enlighten your knowledge of trade terms by region. it means dope,laborer,floor cleaner,
> its sad I didnt make this like this it just is! Many of you are doing specialty contractor trades. Here you would be a specialty contractor
> not a handyman. do what you do here without the proper lisc its jail
> 
> You will never pull off windows,framing,decks,siding,with a handy mans lisc here. You would make the newspaper in police beat. Yes in many ways it sucks but it keeps people focused on 1 trade and standards very high. The money generated compensates for it nicely


That explains allot about your attitude toward Handymen. California and Florida are worlds appart than were I am from.


----------



## Tom R

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> That explains allot about your attitude toward Handymen. California and Florida are worlds appart than were I am from.



Yes, - - that's what it is, - - it boils down to what one's interpretation of 'handyman' is.

And although it may have seemed (especially to turdman) that I was singling him out here, - - it was just that he was the author of one offensive thread, - - and I wanted to finish out this whole 'handyman' demorilization issue that seems to so often take place around here.

I can understand turd's point (the whole Florida thing), - - but in general, - - I feel that people who feel the need to demoralize some trade other than their own are more than likely suffering some kind of major issues themselves.

One of those issues would be arthritis of the index finger . . .


----------



## fez-head

Tom R said:


> Yes, - - that's what it is, - - it boils down to what one's interpretation of 'handyman' is.
> 
> And although it may have seemed (especially to turdman) that I was singling him out here, - - it was just that he was the author of one offensive thread, - - and I wanted to finish out this whole 'handyman' demorilization issue that seems to so often take place around here.
> 
> I can understand turd's point (the whole Florida thing), - - but in general, - - I feel that people who feel the need to demoralize some trade other than their own are more than likely suffering some kind of major issues themselves.
> 
> One of those issues would be arthritis of the index finger . . .


Like I said earlier We can cry to ourselves about the problem of bad Handyman stereo types and derogatory comments or we can step up with other like minded men of virtue and integrity and do something about it. 

What we do is not rocket science - but most of us _(especialy here on this board and others) _take great pride in our reputation and the quality of service that we provide.

I love my work and am in this for the long haul. Tom is with me and I know quite a few of you others are also. :thumbsup: Don't just read derogatory posts about your workmanship and let it pass...speak up and nip it in the bud.


----------



## kevjob

I think as of late Handyman have gotten a bad name. Around here we have Handyman Matters, Handyman Connection etc... These comopanies will finish basements with no permits etc... So my point is a contractor is usually licensed for addtions, basements etc.. with a GC license. Now I have seen some handymen that could be contractors and some contractors that should be pushing a broom! In Denver they are one of only a handful of citites that have tests and interviews etc... but still nothing like California or Connecticut. I think every state should have a license for every trade for no other purpose to show the limitations with that license and have the same freaking code from city to city!:furious:


----------



## Tom R

Around here (next town over), - - we recently had a 'licensed' contractor put on a whole second floor addition without a permit.

He finally got busted when the next door neighbor (lady) went and complained to the township that she no longer had any sun in her back yard to lay in because of the neighbor's addition. Their first reply was "what addition"??

The job got shut down on the spot.

Point being, - - I don't think there's any 'one' segment of the trades (or should I say the poser's) that are breaking all the rules.

This guy was even licensed and was trying to put one over.


----------



## Cole

Moved to Business


----------



## needthingsdone?

Cole said:


> Moved to Business


Maybe time for moving on to more important business!!!:laughing:


----------



## Tom R

needthingsdone? said:


> Maybe time for moving on to more important business!!!:laughing:


If you don't think this thread is important, - - feel free to start one that you think is.

And be assured I won't come on there just to say it doesn't fit in my miniscule scheme of things . . . :shifty:


----------



## Forry

This IS an important thread...I has a lot to do with pride, and personal identity, and having the work we do appreciated and not compared to hack work....Lot's at stake here.


----------



## fez-head

Forry said:


> This IS an important thread...I has a lot to do with pride, and personal identity, and having the work we do appreciated and not compared to hack work....Lot's at stake here.



:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## ruskent

Just by coming to this forum, i think it says alot about the person. I'd like ot belive that we only have respectable contractors here. If a guy is here that is a handyman, without a doubt my first impression would be that he is serious about his business and not one of those hacks we all hate.

I think most of us come here to learn and improve our businesses.


----------



## Tom R

ruskent said:


> Just by coming to this forum, i think it says alot about the person. I'd like ot belive that we only have respectable contractors here. If a guy is here that is a handyman, without a doubt my first impression would be that he is serious about his business and not one of those hacks we all hate.
> 
> I think most of us come here to learn and improve our businesses.



Right, - - very few, if any, 'hacks' would be frequenting a place like this.

Most of 'em would be much more concerned with looking for their next victim . . .


----------



## fez-head

Tom R said:


> Right, - - very few, if any, 'hacks' would be frequenting a place like this.
> 
> Most of 'em would be much more concerned with looking for their next victim . . .



To take it even farther - I think there are very few hacks anyway compared to the shear number of honest hardworking folks.

A few bad apples give the rest of us a bad name. If we don't nip it in the bud it starts to become the reality in peoples mind. 

As we all know peoples perception is often their reality.


----------



## woodmagman

*Pride in workmanship*

To take pride in ones workmanship does not mean the job was done correctly. Profesional certified tradesman are both prideful and educated in the job they are doing. Without the correct training any job can be cosmiticly outstanding, but under the surface, medaphorically speaky cracks are forming.
I would not let a very skilled, very qualified nurse set a broken limb for me. Now if I only had the choice between a skilled nurse and a physcial engineer, the nurse gets my vote hands down unless I want a calculation of night glow and it relation to space dabris then the engineer wins my vote.
We all have limitations, no matter how far we take our education. Pride should be a given, without it you will eventually hack.


----------



## Tmrrptr

"


JamesNLA said:


> Not sure about your area, but in CA there is no such thing as a licensed and insured handyman. There is no license for handyman work here, and no insurance company will touch you with a 10 foot pole."
> 
> James, this is bad info, and wrong.
> many municipalities require license to work in city limits.
> 2mil liability ins for handyman is abt $1200/yr
> 
> "I have seen a few things that these handymen do to peoples houses, and it's scary. Beyond horrible, beyond rigged, beyond hacked. "
> 
> I spend MUCH of my time repairing work done by various licensed contractors and could use all the adjectives u did...
> 
> Lets just say some of the stuff is unbelievable!
> 
> I SHOULD get paid MUCH more to do fixit work.
> 
> r


----------



## skyhook

the_turd_man said:


> no sir we dont do toilets. When you see sh!t flowing all over the supermarket parking lot you can say that half assed turd man was here
> when we screw up we screw up! thank goodness we dont screw up
> 
> theres halfassed people in every trade absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


A Plumber can show up 3 days late and still walk in under a veil of *palms and hosannas*. :notworthy


----------



## ISLAND HANDYMAN

the_turd_man said:


> A HANDYMAN IS NOT A CONTRACTOR SORRY NO CIGAR
> WHERES YOUR CONTRACTORS LISC CERTIFICATE SIGNED BY THE GOVENOR? Showing you passed all the states requirements to show you are a expert in your field upholding building codes?
> 
> A handyman is just that a handyman.
> Thats like saying the kid at the grill at buger king is a cullinary chef?
> 
> or the nurses aid cleaning bedpans has a p.h.d
> 
> Im not being rude I just cant stand when people say Im a contractor
> and they install birdbaths


YOU REALLY ARE A TURD MAN


----------



## Sonny Lykos

Woodmagman,that dryer vent you showed several posts back is nothing. It's ziltch.

I've been a GC for about 34 years. Since I sold my remodeling business to my sons in 1990 I started a new company just dong small jobs, many of which can be classified as handyman work. About half my customers are condo associations. About 1/4 of my jobs are repairing work done by "professional" trades men, and general contractors, like those in low, mid and high rise condos, and multi millions dollar homes. And I'm talking about every trade, not just carpenters. Although electricians and plumbers get my most respect.

In addition, some of my work includes repairing work done by handymen. So there is not a single category in our industry that is NOT void of those who do not take pride in their work, regardless of the price they were paid.

To eliminate people thinking or referring to me as a "handyman" my sign includes the tag line "Professional Execution of Small Projects." My rates re from around $86 y over$135/hr depending upon the risk and skills needed.

Remember, tradesmen and general contractors, like races, fathers, mothers, husbands, doctors, etc. do span both extremes as far as integrity and competency. Likewise, prima donnas exist everywhere. And by the way, I have never considered myself a "professional" of any trade, and have no problem telling people. Besides, what I or you or anyone else thinks of them self is moot. All that's important is what we represent in our customers perception, whether it's a GC or private party.


----------



## IHI

DavidC said:


> There is nothing wrong with being content and having your bills paid. My area is very rural and most of my business is repeat and referrals. Many of my colleagues would say the same.
> 
> One day a supplier was telling me about a well known contractor that has an excellent reputation and was always busy, but came in very worried. Too old to do much different, too young to retire. The problem was that he was outliving his customer base and didn't remember how to get new clients. He had become content. I can't say how he's doing today because I haven't seen him around in awhile. Hopefully he was able to recover.
> 
> Cocoa Cola and cable TV started in bigger markets and eventually found it's way to the rural areas too. Contractors marketing their services may follow suit someday.
> 
> If times do change in your area will you just watch the other guys fall one by one and follow suit? Maybe wait until it's too late?
> 
> An open mind can be a refreshing as a summer breeze.
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave



I see it as this:
I keep a tight ship so if i ever have to jump ship for whatever reason i have very minimal obligations to fullfill prior to getting off.

I see our industry taking a huge nose dive soon. Every day, week, month, year people are getting more and more hostile to us in the trades, negative media has them so brainwashed we're trying to screw them, telling them how the job should be done, billed, etc...it's becoming unrealistic.

Media is flooding the airwaves with all these ridiculous home improvement shows with mega editing while they bring professionals in to do an aspect but magically edit our fellas out so it appears these fake as hosts and HO's did the work, so now the public think, jeez, that's easy, we could do that.

People are forever being dumbed down about what a good job actually is, and with money being stretched further than ever, product quality going down hill along with the pricing, people are now too used to getting crap so long as it's a low price since it's still gotta be better than what we have now right? 

Economy is being media fueled that times are hard, people are trying to take advantage of all these hungry contractors hoping to secure a job that may buy them time for something larger to come in...forcing contractors to tread water instead of making headway hoping the big one comes soon.

Hacks are learning now more than ever people will go for low prices over quality so long as your a good talker, can fake like they know what theyr'e talking about so they're screwing the rest of us by doing work under the table, on the side instead of legally

The up and coming generations dont have smarts enough to bank money, nothing like the old generations we're dealing with now that area slow dieing off, so these new kids dont have the money saved since their idea of a budget is "how many minimum monthly payments can we afford" so trying to sell to them is like trying to sell ice to an eskimo.

SO- I'm not a gloom and doom sorta guy, i try to stay as optimistic as possible, but with all these things going on around us, pretty soon you have to wake up and smell the coffee, things wont be getting any better anytime soon, luckily i'm in a position to fall back onto many different career paths if i have to/want to, so this is why i'm not worried because i know no matter what, i'll be fine, i dont know how to fail/quit, i just adapt and move along trying not to skip a beat. I'm only 34, only been a general contractor for 12 years but have expereinced so much in such a short time, have watched and learned by other's mistakes. I dont and wont claim to know it all, but i do know when my way stops working/bringing in leads/money, i'm out and will move onto the next venture, simple as that, but i've laid the path that allows me many outs in industries that seem to always need workers, supervisors. I'm not a salesman, never claimed to be, so i cant high pressure sell, and refuse to learn how to..it does'nt work with me. Same with marketing, i have no desire to hire sales pukes that over promise stuff because they dont know what they're talking about, i'm not going to drag the rock solid reputation I/my guys have busted our humps to earn for sake of trying to pack in as many new customers as possible to fill a void.

I'm open minded enough to sift through the BS and try to utilize things that can make us more efficent, but too closed minded to ever sell myself out for sake of trying to land more jobs outside my inner circle. I've got far to large a network going on all sides (not just past clientel) to think i'll ever be starving unless i start over promising and underdelivering.


----------



## fez-head

Handymanservice said:


> Originally Posted by *Jesse Kirchhoff*
> _Lately I have even provided concierge service for my busy clients arranging plumbing and HVAC appointments for them. I know it sounds silly but I will sure do it at my regular hourly rate with a smile._
> 
> _*I can't do this out here, Sky is correct*_



Things are a *lot* more laid back here and there are no price limits what so ever. My company was a remodeling company *before* I was a Handyman and now that I am building up a good "drug free" and respectable crew we are slowly getting back into remodeling again. Just like Rory said a good mix of remodeling and handyman work is a damn good combo. 

I hear those same type of restrictions are heading this way from your part of the country though Chuck. When they do we will follow the Law - until then we are already following the law.


----------



## fez-head

IHI said:


> No need to, since we dont advertise and our clients are from our "inner circle" they call us for most everything they dont want to do/cant do on their own anyhow. Depending on what it is they need done, i either continue to take care of them or i forward names of guys in the trades that we work with and are trusted to take care of them. i have and i'm sure most GC's have no desire to be the general publics "Bi.ch" chasing all over town for peanuts.


What's with the hostility?  I know all about the small town "inner circles" and "clicks". Where I'm from it was 30 minutes just to get to town and you did *everything * yourself. Pretty much every grown man I knew while growing up worked construction and was a completely self sufficient *Jack-of-all-trades*. They taught that same self sufficiency and COMMON SENSE to their Boys. 

Where I'm from if something broke by god you fixed it yourself and fixed it right. If you didn't know how to fix it right then you called on a neighbor - who most likely worked for a contractor in the city - *"General Contractors" *where not even considered. Real men knew how to do *many* jobs and did them well. Handyman and Jack of all trades where not dirty words and were just the norm.


----------



## IHI

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> What's with the hostility?  I know all about the small town "inner circles" and "clicks". Where I'm from it was 30 minutes just to get to town and you did *everything * yourself. Pretty much every grown man I knew while growing up was completely self sufficient *Jack-of-all-trades* and they taught that same self sufficiency to their Boys.
> 
> Where I'm from if something broke by god you fixed it yourself and fixed it right. If you didn't know how to fix it right then you called on a neighbor - contractors where not even considered. Real men knew how to do *many* jobs and did them well. Handyman and Jack of all trades where not dirty words.


Handymen and jack of all trades are also the leading causes of the why's and how's codes have been established. Lots of guys thought they knew, but had no idea...same mysterious thing still happens today, strange.....:whistling


----------



## Tinstaafl

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> Where I'm from if something broke by god you fixed it yourself and fixed it right. If you didn't know how to fix it right then you called on a neighbor - who most likely worked for a contractor in the city - *"General Contractors" *where not even considered. Real men knew how to do *many* jobs and did them well. Handyman and Jack of all trades where not dirty words and were just the norm.


Considering the economy, I wouldn't be too awfully surprised if we see a noticeable percentage of the population returning (or at least attempting to) to those values. And although I currently make my living by doing that sort of work for others, I feel that would be a good thing. 

This country was built on independent self-reliance, and abandonment of that value leads to a rather uncomfortable and relatively fragile co-dependence.


----------



## fez-head

IHI said:


> Handymen and jack of all trades are also the leading causes of the why's and how's codes have been established. Lots of guys thought they knew, but had no idea...same mysterious thing still happens today, strange.....:whistling


*You are absolutely correct *-*GC's don't cut corners or do hack jobs* - it was the small handyman that ruined the reputation of the *entire* construction industry....if it wasn't for us there would be no NEED for codes. 

It was so very strange indeed.......and mysterious! I was so naive - thank you for explaining.


----------



## DavidC

IHI,

You can say what you want about our industry diving, and hard times economies. These are part of the cycles we go through over and over.

Many people will watch the home improvement shows and think they can do it themselves. Some will try and do alright. Some will start and realize it's hard. Those will eventually call us. 

The media is always telling us that the glass is half empty and driving it home. Our clients have half full glasses or they wouldn't be spending.

Some people have always been receptive to dumbing down while others have been receptive to smarting up. For example, I'm finding quite a number of folks that are using the internet and becoming smarter consumers that are not swayed by lowest pricing and won't accept poor quality. There always have been all different kinds and the supply seems to be good still.

Nearly everyone that posts on these forum admits to having hacks in their area. Again, nothing new to the business here. As always there will be people to hire them, they do serve a market segment like it or not. Some may hire them unwittingly and not be duped again, others accept what they get because it was cheap enough after all.

I also think that every generation looks at the preceding generation and sees old fashion, looks at the next generation and sees young fools. I'm from a large family and can look at a good sampling of my next generation and see plenty that have learned to be successful and plenty that live pay check to pay check. Again, all kinds of different folks. 

The plain and simple is if you were not already engaged in marketing then your circle would be empty, no one would know you had a service to offer. Your level of workmanship, customer service, reputation, etc. is your marketing. Your marketing or your phone wouldn't ring.

And every time you sign a contract with a customer you have made a sale. You are the sales puke in your company. 

You do seem top equate marketing and sales with the dark side of our industry. It just aint so. Back to the different folks idea, some of us will market our business and chase sales so that our business' can prosper during changing times and some of us will cut and run while blaming everthing else.

You may well be content and secure for now and hats off to you if that's the case. But if you refuse to learn to navigate in a changing world that will be short lived and you may well be better off in a different career choice. Best of luck to you either way.

Good Luck
Dave


----------



## IHI

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> *You are absolutely correct *-*GC's don't cut corners or do hack jobs* - it was the small handyman that ruined the reputation of the entire construction industry.
> 
> I am so naive - thank you for setting me straight. :thumbsup:


So in your eye's, how elese should i "term/lablel" these men that worked 9-5's at a factory, then after work performed tasks for cash on the general publics dwellings? These "jacks of all trades"? I call them handymen, they're not working under the same legal constraints we as contractors are (in SOME locations) so to all the area's where no licsencing is required to obtain building permits, no bonding, heck, do these area's even require insurance?? you might as well throw the label handyman out the window since now there is no difference between them-a guy with a truck, hammer, and saw fixing steps for Mrs. Olsen who's husband passed away and a "general contractor".

I've already agree that just because somebody holds a licsence does'nt make them and their work perfect, there's hacks in all trades. But the difference is contractors that are in and running professional businesses have to obide by checks and balances...aka building permits. There's far too many good ole boys that do stuff because, "that's the way my dad, uncle, grandfather" did it and we've never had any problems. 

Well, the fact of the matter is, there has'nt been a problem yet, and just because those under sized headers have'nt failed, undersized joists have'nt failed, undersized rafter have'nt failed YET does that still mean it's a good way to do things??? Codes are established both from modern day testing to failure from manufactuers and also many past practices reveling their ugly faces down the road due to people being hurt/killed, structure collapse, etc.... With GC's and permits, we're forced to have other's look over our shoulder to ensure we're building to the latest and safest practices for our customers....with handymen and mis informed homeowners, they are literally free to do what they want, right or wrong because they're not bound by the same check and balance system we are.

Again, i have no problem with anybody doing a job so long as they do it right, my problem is after YEARS of redoing some shadey azzed work, there's too many that think they know, but have no idea.:no:


----------



## IHI

DavidC said:


> IHI,
> 
> You can say what you want about our industry diving, and hard times economies. These are part of the cycles we go through over and over.
> 
> Many people will watch the home improvement shows and think they can do it themselves. Some will try and do alright. Some will start and realize it's hard. Those will eventually call us.
> 
> The media is always telling us that the glass is half empty and driving it home. Our clients have half full glasses or they wouldn't be spending.
> 
> Some people have always been receptive to dumbing down while others have been receptive to smarting up. For example, I'm finding quite a number of folks that are using the internet and becoming smarter consumers that are not swayed by lowest pricing and won't accept poor quality. There always have been all different kinds and the supply seems to be good still.
> 
> Nearly everyone that posts on these forum admits to having hacks in their area. Again, nothing new to the business here. As always there will be people to hire them, they do serve a market segment like it or not. Some may hire them unwittingly and not be duped again, others accept what they get because it was cheap enough after all.
> 
> I also think that every generation looks at the preceding generation and sees old fashion, looks at the next generation and sees young fools. I'm from a large family and can look at a good sampling of my next generation and see plenty that have learned to be successful and plenty that live pay check to pay check. Again, all kinds of different folks.
> 
> The plain and simple is if you were not already engaged in marketing then your circle would be empty, no one would know you had a service to offer. Your level of workmanship, customer service, reputation, etc. is your marketing. Your marketing or your phone wouldn't ring.
> 
> And every time you sign a contract with a customer you have made a sale. You are the sales puke in your company.
> 
> You do seem top equate marketing and sales with the dark side of our industry. It just aint so. Back to the different folks idea, some of us will market our business and chase sales so that our business' can prosper during changing times and some of us will cut and run while blaming everthing else.
> 
> You may well be content and secure for now and hats off to you if that's the case. But if you refuse to learn to navigate in a changing world that will be short lived and you may well be better off in a different career choice. Best of luck to you either way.
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave



Potatoe/Pototoe I understand what your saying and i think we agree from different angles on things. Every business has to adapt or they get left behind, otherwise we'd still be driving model T's around, but the one thing that stands above all since the beginning of business is customer service, more so now than ever in this busy life wwe all live filled with voice messaging, and automated robot voices on the other end of the phone wanting telling you to push buttons for service So if nothing else, i see this as our niche, even long after a sale, we're there for them and people like to know no matter what happens, good or bad, we're their assurance policy, so maybe that's our key to success?? if so, i dont plan to change it, and i dont see people ever getting tired of knowing there's soembody they can acutally count on no matter what.


----------



## Tinstaafl

IHI said:


> Again, i have no problem with anybody doing a job so long as they do it right, my problem is after YEARS of redoing some shadey azzed work, there's too many that think they know, but have no idea.:no:


IMO you're way too focused on the label, rather than its actual definition. True, due to lack of licensing in most areas, just about anyone can *call* himself a handyman. Obviously, that doesn't automatically make him actually handy, in the true definition of the word.

But neither does it automatically make him an incompetent hack, as most of your posts I've read imply if not state outright. There's just no need for such vituperative scorn here, since (as far as I can tell) most of our members who wear the title of "Handyman" do so with pride and integrity.

Those who are of the hack persuasion seldom last long enough to do serious damage to the rest of us. Lighten up.


----------



## Tscarborough

IHI, I am somewhat that way after doing it for 20 odd years in the same place; everyone knows us, been here 33 years, etc. I asked the AR secretary to run an inactive customer report a couple of months ago when it first slowed down (we inactivate them after one year of no activity). There were close to 200 good customers that I have not spoken to for more than a year, and I have already gotten sales from 30 of them without any effort other than a phone call to say hi.

You rely on passive sales at your peril.


----------



## Handymanservice

*There's just no need for such vituperative scorn here, since (as far as I can tell) m*

Remind me to look that up, what a bad a$$ word.

I look at Jesse and the way he is building his company and the standards he has set (written codes of ethics, operations manual, dress code, Insurance, License, professionally lettered company vehicles, video recording by technicians to clarify problems to accompany bids to corporate headquarters - I could go on) and nothing says "Handyman" in the manner that IHI uses it.

My company shares many of these same philosophies and operates in a similar manner. The thing about IHI's opinion is that it doesn't represent a businessman's opinion. I'm glad you (IHI) are content and ready to run if business get's bad, arid you can't make money. It is always good to have an exit plan from your business, usually a 34 year old would not be thinking of an exit unless they were a sports millionaire.

Contractor is a bad word these days, I think the term Handyman is at least a step up in the publics opinion. I still want to get my GC license, I will not change my company name, the way we operate or the jobs we normally do, but I will look into doing bigger jobs with an additional crew.

The way the industry is, we should all try to help each other be the best "Contractor" we can be so we can turnaround the negative image.

It's a lofty goal....


----------



## CoxContracting

I would have to agree that there are a lot of handyman companies out there that have no business doing some of the things they do, But with that said there are also handyman services out there that have more knowledge than some GC. I have seen this issue go both ways. With the way the market has been my Company has been taking on a lot of handyman jobs. When I saw that this was a major market in our area I started advertizing for it. Now does that mean I do not need to do anything that involves the safety of the client? I now list myself as a Handyman in our area because houses are not being built at all. We manage a lot of rental property now along with remodeling and home repair. I have the license needed to perform anything a GC can do. I guess it all depends on the area that you live in.


----------



## shesaremonclus

I dont call my self a handyman although I am, but rather call my buisness a home repair buisness. The problem here is that GC with their pens and paper and cell phone just want to call a sub for everything and charge a premium above their subs prices. They should focus their efforts on building homes, additions and remodels etc. They need to be aware that their is a need for home repair specialist. I do home repairs every day some days I'm at 10 different jobs, I get these jobs done before a GC can go out and do an estimate. I can asure you that when I leave the job that I was call out for it's done right. Here is a list of what I did for a property manager yesterday most GC will not give this job the time of day but still dont what a "handyman" to do or think is capable of.

Exterior
Replace light fixture at front enterance and rear of house
Replace front door

Living Room
light switch at outlet missing
left window needs tension clips
middle window needs repair

front bedroom
door need hinge repaired
storm door needs latch

kitchen
replace missing broken vinyl tiles
cap stove gas line
repair door to sink base cabinet

hallway
install smoke detector

back bedroom
fix window frame and lock mechanism
top storm window pane missing

bathroom
remove debris from sink cabinet
recaulk tub
install shower curtain pole
repair ceiling drywall
fasten light fixture
replace outlet with GFCI

basement
repair last step
cover 2 juction boxes
remove debris from floor
caulk around windows
replace outlet to washer with GFCI
cap off floor drains
water line for washer needs to be affixed
window missing
install missing/broken light fixtures

According to what some people have said here to get this done the H/O will have to call a CG (that will not waste his time with such a low cost project) which in turn since he is not a "jack of all trades" will call his subs which will be most like a carpenter, electrician, plumber, flooring contractor, drywall contractor, painter and house clening service since none of these trade will want to remove the debris and sweep the basement.

I can just imagine how long it will take the GC to go and finish this and how much it will cost the H/O.

GC and Handymen both need to realize their place in the construction buisness and admit that both are an important part of the trades.


----------



## fez-head

Handymanservice said:


> Remind me to look that up, what a bad a$$ word.
> 
> I look at Jesse and the way he is building his company and the standards he has set (written codes of ethics, operations manual, dress code, Insurance, License, professionally lettered company vehicles, video recording by technicians to clarify problems to accompany bids to corporate headquarters - I could go on) and nothing says "Handyman" in the manner that IHI uses it.
> 
> My company shares many of these same philosophies and operates in a similar manner. The thing about IHI's opinion is that it doesn't represent a businessman's opinion. I'm glad you (IHI) are content and ready to run if business get's bad, arid you can't make money. It is always good to have an exit plan from your business, usually a 34 year old would not be thinking of an exit unless they were a sports millionaire.
> 
> Contractor is a bad word these days, I think the term Handyman is at least a step up in the publics opinion. I still want to get my GC license, I will not change my company name, the way we operate or the jobs we normally do, but I will look into doing bigger jobs with an additional crew.
> 
> The way the industry is, we should all try to help each other be the best "Contractor" we can be so we can turnaround the negative image.
> 
> It's a lofty goal....


I like the way you talk :thumbup:


----------



## gallerytungsten

*Hack vs. Craftsman*

A lot of this back & forth of Handyman vs. Contractor (etc.) doesn't accomplish all that much. What you want to call yourself is more of a marketing decision. What counts is the quality level you can deliver.

That's what separates the Hack from the Craftsman.


----------



## IHI

Handymanservice said:


> The thing about IHI's opinion is that it doesn't represent a businessman's opinion. I'm glad you (IHI) are content and ready to run if business get's bad, arid you can't make money. It is always good to have an exit plan from your business, usually a 34 year old would not be thinking of an exit unless they were a sports millionaire.


I look at it like this, i've seen far too many vendors fail, far to many established businesses fail for all sorts of different reasons, so IMO if a person is not thinking long term about everything and putting items in place as a plan B, C, D they're asking for trouble. Look around you, i'm sure there are probably establishments that have been staples in communities for generations that are now closing the doors for whatever reason...s..t happens, fact of life; i just opted to lay a foundation for myself that should i ever be faced with that situation, it's no skin off my teeth, i look back and will be able to say i gave'r hell, time to move onto the next adventure, and the best part- i walk away clean, no loose ends, nothing to hold me back or hold me down. I've learned ALOT of very expensive lessons to date which have steered me to the way i now do things, anybody that has'nt been through the school of hard knocks, i envy you and wished i lived in that type of world, but i learned long ago, you look out for #1 first and foremost because nobody else gives two craps about ya:no:

You fella's keep focusing on the bad, i've stated numerious times know i respect anybody that does a great job and does things the way they should be, i stated numerious times, licsences are'nt the final say in that that person will do everything 100% correct 100% of the time, it comes down to our own morals, it's that simple. I'm just happy our towns we work in require us to be licsenced so these factory job by day, moonlighters by night have a harder time getting/doing work they have no business doing. FWIW, we do alot of piddly jobds, they make nice fill in work waiting on this or that, it's a great fill in to keep the guys busy, we dont make enough to say it a good niche that i would create a sub-division to go after on it's own, but i never intended to do odd ball jobs either, just too much running back and forth getting this or that for this job, that job, and the job after that; and since time is money i prefer to look at bigger jobs and make bigger money with less running is all, be on a jobsite for 4 or 5 days and bank $4-5K after overhead is met vs putting 20hrs behind a windsheild chasing parts for 20 hours worth of work, just does'nt jive with me for some reason.


----------



## skyhook

gbryant1 said:


> Just because they have a contractor license does not mean that they are better at what they do than us lonely handymen. I just installed cabinets in a kitchen and noticed there was a two inch difference from the floor to the ceiling on every wall. This was a two inch lean outward.....This house was built by "a top notch contractor". I noticed a lot of other things that should not have been done by the contractor but kept my mouth shut. Please don't put down the handymen just because you need something to mouth off about. Everyone has there faults.


There are some of us who went to college, served an apprenticeship, continued our education and worked in the trades for decades. Then there are others who only studied enough to pass the exam, then went out claiming to know what they were doing, grabbed some jobs and now feel qualified to call themselves experts. Which would you rather have build your house?


----------



## fez-head




----------



## Handymanservice

skyhook said:


> There are some of us who went to college, served an apprenticeship, continued our education and worked in the trades for decades. Then there are others who only studied enough to pass the exam, then went out claiming to know what they were doing, grabbed some jobs and now feel qualified to call themselves experts. Which would you rather have build your house?


I couldn't agree more. This is a quality comment!


----------



## fez-head

**** it lets Jam!


----------



## Handymanservice

IHI said:


> I look at it like this, i've seen far too many vendors fail, far to many established businesses fail for all sorts of different reasons, so IMO if a person is not thinking long term about everything and putting items in place as a plan B, C, D they're asking for trouble. Look around you, i'm sure there are probably establishments that have been staples in communities for generations that are now closing the doors for whatever reason...s..t happens, fact of life; i just opted to lay a foundation for myself that should i ever be faced with that situation, it's no skin off my teeth, i look back and will be able to say i gave'r hell, time to move onto the next adventure, and the best part- i walk away clean, no loose ends, nothing to hold me back or hold me down. I've learned ALOT of very expensive lessons to date which have steered me to the way i now do things, anybody that has'nt been through the school of hard knocks, i envy you and wished i lived in that type of world, but i learned long ago, you look out for #1 first and foremost because nobody else gives two craps about ya:no:
> 
> You fella's keep focusing on the bad, i've stated numerious times know i respect anybody that does a great job and does things the way they should be, i stated numerious times, licsences are'nt the final say in that that person will do everything 100% correct 100% of the time, it comes down to our own morals, it's that simple. I'm just happy our towns we work in require us to be licsenced so these factory job by day, moonlighters by night have a harder time getting/doing work they have no business doing. FWIW, we do alot of piddly jobds, they make nice fill in work waiting on this or that, it's a great fill in to keep the guys busy, we dont make enough to say it a good niche that i would create a sub-division to go after on it's own, but i never intended to do odd ball jobs either, just too much running back and forth getting this or that for this job, that job, and the job after that; and since time is money i prefer to look at bigger jobs and make bigger money with less running is all, be on a jobsite for 4 or 5 days and bank $4-5K after overhead is met vs putting 20hrs behind a windsheild chasing parts for 20 hours worth of work, just does'nt jive with me for some reason.


$h!t, I can't believe I am going to say this, but I *actually agree* with most of what you say in this post. Since my first post here, I have not found a "common" thread I could agree on with you. Am I evolving?

Seriously IHI, your delivery may not always suit me, but I feel what you are saying,I will be more openminded when reading your posts in the future. Oh yeah, good luck with the Dyno test.


----------



## Handymanservice

Jesse, you are the you tube man:thumbsup:


----------



## IHI

Handymanservice said:


> $h!t, I can't believe I am going to say this, but I *actually agree* with most of what you say in this post. Since my first post here, I have not found a "common" thread I could agree on with you. Am I evolving?
> 
> Seriously IHI, your delivery may not always suit me, but I feel what you are saying,I will be more openminded when reading your posts in the future. Oh yeah, good luck with the Dyno test.



:laughing::laughing: And i agree with what many have stated here i seem to be going back and forth with, it seems we've all been dancing around the same fire saying the say thing but interpreting it differently? :laughing: hard to believe that being the internet and all:whistling:laughing:


----------



## rbsremodeling

Wow I can't believe no blood was shed. 

You guys handled it all civil like.



* Bunch a wimps*


----------



## neolitic

Kumbaya~Lord~Kumbaya...............

:laughing::clap::laughing:


----------



## DavidC

rbsremodeling said:


> Wow I can't believe no blood was shed.
> 
> You guys handled it all civil like.
> 
> 
> 
> * Bunch a wimps*


I was thinking for moment that maybe I should call in a plumber for back up. :>)

Good Luck
Dave


----------



## rbsremodeling

DavidC said:


> I was thinking for moment that maybe I should call in a plumber for back up. :>)
> 
> Good Luck
> Dave


Or at least a painter them sumabitches been cranky lately. 

They are ready to crack heads over in the paint forum


----------



## fez-head

rbsremodeling said:


> Or at least a painter them sumabitches been cranky lately.
> 
> They are ready to crack heads over in the paint forum


Lets go screw with em


----------



## hvaclover

HOLY HORSE MANURE!

Handyman vs Contractor.... ain't even going there...rather face all mods int he world before I walk that radioactive mile


----------

