# Ice and Water shield question



## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

This house obviously has insulation/venting issues, but it's six month old roof with ice and water shield over the drip edge allowed 15,000.00 damage when a freezing rain plugged the downspouts. 

I'll let the pictures tell the story, but in certain situations ice and water shield wrapped over the fascia, then drip edge, followed by another layer of ice and water is the only way to cover your butt.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

houses without overhangs are stupid...imo:cowboy:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

enforcer said:


> so that is why ice and water goes on first?
> also, i hear some guys say they start off by using a small strip of ice shield, maybe 6 inches and put that on first then drip edge. then again apply 3 ft of ice and water over the dripmedge?nthis make sense?


That's how we were advised to detail the roof edge. I guess the theory is that the situation seeyou described allows water to reach the raw edge of the plywood, get behind the facia etc... if not protected with a membrane.

I personally don't have a preference. In my experience we are usually more concerned about getting torn off and dried in so drip edge goes on after....

When we deal with ice dams causing damage there's usually a bigger issue than how the roof edge was detailed.

Just my $.02


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## welterweight (Nov 10, 2009)

where i am, we do the drip edge first. water never gets to the edge of the decking.. 
if you were to apply ice and water first, it better be in this sequence:
ice a water strip thats angled onto the fascia, the drip edge, then 3 ft of ice and water. cannot have ice and water only on the bottom of the drip, need to apply it over as well.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Ice & Water , Gutter Apron, Starter. Sort of like the following sequence in my mini display house for my home show. I have always done it this way and it is the way I was taught. Never have I had a problem and since a lot of my roofs get inspected by the manufacturer, they don't have a problem with how I do it either.

On a side note, of the untold amount of roofs I have done, I can only remember having rotten wood along the eave on a handful.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Tom Struble said:


> i don't know from nothing but whichever one of youse is not cutting back over hanging roof sheathing should be shot


You aren't just a kidding on that one Tom. Nothing worse then the sheeting hanging out and then the fascia hits it when you are installing it. Or when on the down sides the bootom edge of the sheeting is flush with the top of sub fascia and the top edge is hanging over  Specially when all they use is the 1" face drip edge.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Try getting a metal fascia installed when the roofer put the I&W over the edge and down onto the sub fascia under the drip edge.......


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

If one does NOT place I & W OVER drip edge, the drip edge is only 1/2 effective.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

MJW said:


> Try getting a metal fascia installed when the roofer put the I&W over the edge and down onto the sub fascia under the drip edge.......


Thankfully I have had to deal with that problem YET.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

MJW said:


> Try getting a metal fascia installed when the roofer put the I&W over the edge and down onto the sub fascia under the drip edge.......


then i would either try to pull the wood sub by pulling the nails then folding it up and peel the wood off the i&w,usually works,sometimes not:sadr just trim up to the bottom of the i&w,getting it under if at all possible

if i know gutters will go on you can caulk the top edge of the metal
..your absolutely right it is an issue


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

MALCO.New.York said:


> If one does NOT place I & W OVER drip edge, the drip edge is only 1/2 effective.


but if we let the I&W be the barrier the drip really only needs to do half it's job no Mark?


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## JWilliams (Nov 11, 2008)

i live in florida i dont have to worry about ice dams :whistling :laughing:


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

JWilliams said:


> i live in florida i dont have to worry about ice dams :whistling :laughing:


I think I would gladly deal with ice dams compared to some of the stuff you have in Florida :laughing:


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## Builttolast (Oct 16, 2011)

To be honest, around here its Drip edge THEN Ice/water (Most guys use 6ft of it - Ive seen some real A**holes use NONE - IMO they should be shot...) Then felt the rest of the roof.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I will gladly roof a home without any IW and I can promise you that the roof will be just as fine as it would've been with it.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I will gladly roof a home without any IW and I can promise you that the roof will be just as fine as it would've been with it.


What do we do before ice shield...I know there are situations that it will help with but it should not be required always. My house does not have it..never had any leaks or ice damning...


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## Builttolast (Oct 16, 2011)

I will not offend, however I will simply state - Ive seen some homes around here WITHOUT I/W and Ive had to fix the result. THEN AGAIN, if not done right even I/W wont save you if you roofed it wrong. FYI, I/W is however REQUIRED here if I remember correctly. I always use I/W on any structure that will have people LIVING in it. Code calls for it, I do it - Otherwise my name dont go on it and I dont do it.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I know it is easier to require it on everything than be selective but it is not necessary on all roofs. A steep pitch roof with a tall heal and good eave/ridge ventilation is very unlikely to form ice damns. I definitely get following your local code and would not promote going against it.


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## Builttolast (Oct 16, 2011)

Very true, like I said in the beginning I wasnt going to offend simply state:thumbsup:


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

We have I&W inspections here, can't lay shingles until it get's inspected. Every one does 2 rows because of the 3' past the exterior wall is code.

Cole


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## Builttolast (Oct 16, 2011)

We have the same one - 3 foot past exterior wall. Not everyone does it, but that IS the code.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Tom Struble said:


> but if we let the I&W be the barrier the drip really only needs to do half it's job no Mark?



I see your point!


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Cole82 said:


> We have I&W inspections here, can't lay shingles until it get's inspected. Every one does 2 rows because of the 3' past the exterior wall is code.
> 
> Cole


That's strange. It isn't code here yet but the manufacturers recommend two feet inside the warm wall. Still need two rows but in order to go three feet, you'd have to go three rows.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> That's strange. It isn't code here yet but the manufacturers recommend two feet inside the warm wall. Still need two rows but in order to go three feet, you'd have to go three rows.


I am pretty sure it's in IBC but could be wrong. I'll try and find it later. You guys have a lot of 3' over hangs? Most everything here is 16" over hangs.

Cole


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

A lot of 16 and 24


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Just had a chance to look it up. R905.2.7.1 it is required if the january average temp is below 25 degrees and must be at least 24" past the interior wall.

Cole


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

MALCO.New.York said:


> I see your point!


even with my hat on?arty::shutup:


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