# Certified Email



## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

Many years ago I realized a need to one day be able to certify an email. A method of being able to show in a court of law (if needed) that an email was actually sent from 1 party, to another party, the date and time as well as the text in the message. By having this email stored on a disinterested 3rd parties computer in a location you have no idea where it is at, it helps to prove the email was delivered as said.

In todays world, especially the construction industry, we need to backup everything we do. Everything has to be in writing and email is or has become the method of communication mostly used. It makes a perfect record of communication between 2 parties. In most cases this works fine. Just like it used to be sending a letter, in most cases, was all that was needed. In special circumstances we would send a certified letter for proof. This is needed for email also.

If you are sending an email and would like to have a backup on a distant computer, in the cc field of an email, send it to [email protected]. Usually within just a couple of minutes of sending your email you will receive an email certification notice in your email informing you of the sender, recipient, date, time, subject and message of the email. These certificates could prove valuable if the situation ever wound up in court. You can instruct that an email certificate also be sent to the recipient by adding 3 dots "..." to the end of the subject line. The recipient then receives the same email certification notice as you plus a copy of the actual email, date and time stamped, remains on the gmail server.

If you want to find out more about this handy tool just send an email to [email protected] and use only the word "information" in the subject line. This will instruct an information sheet on this service to be emailed back to you within just a minute or so. This is a free service and I'm not here just plugging it. Well, maybe plugging it because it is useful.

Even with trouble in the office with co-workers. It is best to try and keep communications between workers sent via email. Daily logs of jobsites can be emailed and certified. Sometimes just seeing the email address in the cc line is enough to change hearts.

:thumbsup:


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

That's a cool service, wish I had of read this thread 15 mins ago before sending out my last e-mail...


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I have been using email at the job I now presently work at to cover my butt. Owner came up to me yesterday and said he's getting tired of hearing these problems coming from my department. I said I have email to back it up that I took care of it and someone else did the bad deed. He wanted to see it and I sent it over and now, the problem is off my shoulders and I look better because of it.


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

framerman said:


> I have been using email at the job I now presently work at to cover my butt. Owner came up to me yesterday and said he's getting tired of hearing these problems coming from my department. I said I have email to back it up that I took care of it and someone else did the bad deed. He wanted to see it and I sent it over and now, the problem is off my shoulders and I look better because of it.


It always looks better for the person that has the forethought to cover themselves. [email protected] just adds an extra punch to your emails.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Some companies will freak out if you send internal company information to a 3rd party as this. 

You don't know what is on the other side of [email protected] and how it will be used.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

David, is this a side business of yours? 

Do you charge for this service?


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> David, is this a side business of yours?
> 
> Do you charge for this service?


It is a free service.

I don't know if I would actually call it a business. It is my email account and I have an autoreply setup on it to send out the notices and information. It requires no input from me. I don't do anything with the emails, they just sit there on gmails server. I have debated whether or not to immediately delete them but the actual emails are nice to have if ever needed.

Internal company information should never go beyond your firewall. As with anything, don't ever put information anywhere online that you don't want anyone else to know about. Most people would be surprised to know how many computers an email message passes through regardless of who you send it to and they all have logs.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Very interesting concept. But, unless you've had a lawyer sign off on the idea, I'm not really sure it would hold up in court. Still a great idea though. :thumbsup:


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Very interesting concept. But, unless you've had a lawyer sign off on the idea, I'm not really sure it would hold up in court. Still a great idea though. :thumbsup:


It sure helps in creating and backing up a paper trail that may be needed at a future date. It attaches it to a timeline that is independent of either party involved. Noone ever said this is a fool proof method to prevent you from ever getting exploited. It is a small piece of an overall plan.

Jobsite photographs are needed. A logbook helps. Company policies and procedures as well as a good safety program are just a few of the things needed to help protect you and your business. There is no one thing that will guarantee you anything but each piece helps.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Wouldn't it be the same if I opened up my 'sent' folder, and printed out the sent email? It shows to, from, and the time sent already. Not knocking your idea, but wouldn't this show the same thing?


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Wouldn't it be the same if I opened up my 'sent' folder, and printed out the sent email? It shows to, from, and the time sent already. Not knocking your idea, but wouldn't this show the same thing?


It is easy to manipulate your own computer to use wrong dates or to change the wording in emails. Having a copy on a third parties computer to backup the fact that your email was actually sent at the date you claim and that the wording has not changed is what this does.


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## GreenW00D (Aug 2, 2007)

what it is not easy to do is change the header info routing info. Personally I would never send email to an unknown third party. If it really important you can pay for these services through a financially backed company. There was a law passed last that states that companies must archive all internal email for a certain period of time. There is a company called watchdog that has equpment to do this. There are also several online services available that act as email proxy's.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2692400


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

GreenW00D said:


> what it is not easy to do is change the header info routing info. Personally I would never send email to an unknown third party. If it really important you can pay for these services through a financially backed company. There was a law passed last that states that companies must archive all internal email for a certain period of time. There is a company called watchdog that has equpment to do this. There are also several online services available that act as email proxy's.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2692400


That article is talking about companies involved in federal litigation so it can be used in discovery. I have this email account for myself and just put it here in case anyone else wanted to use it. It has worked well for me but it hasn't been tested by a court either.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

GreenW00D said:


> what it is not easy to do is change the header info routing info.


Sure it is.. how do you think spam works? 


A number of years ago I wrote a small SMTP daemon in Perl for a project I was doing. It was quite easy to do.

You can use telnet as a mail client if you really wanted to.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

Ive been doing that for years. You simply CC your own e-mail address. That way you get a copy of the e-mail sent to you and it shows the date and time that you sent it and who you sent it to. Or if you want to make it more complicated set up a second e-mail address that all your e-mails with get CC's to


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

No way does any of my email go through a third party unless they are listed on the NYSE and have disclosure and usage contracts.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

PressurePros said:


> No way does any of my email go through a third party unless they are listed on the NYSE and have disclosure and usage contracts.


Your email, passes unencrypted through many systems around the internet. That's how the internet works. Network, talking to network, talking to network.

If you were really paranoid about the content of emails and wanted to make absolutely sure that the only person who viewed it was the intended recipient, use encryption.


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

If you are sending a demand email or confirming a color selection or something like that, I seriously doubt that anyone but you gives a rat's ass about the content of that letter. It sure isn't some form of proprietary secretive information in most cases. If it is then standard email over the internet is the wrong place to be sending that data anyway.


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## Ken512 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Scam !!!!*

I don't know where this information came from, but this appears to be a scam. Someone has opened up an account on gmail using this address to harvest email addresses. Nowhere on googles website do you see this listed as a real service, I advise everyone not to send anything to this address.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Just had to join and point that out eh?



Ken512 said:


> I don't know where this information came from, but this appears to be a scam. Someone has opened up an account on gmail using this address to harvest email addresses. Nowhere on googles website do you see this listed as a real service, I advise everyone not to send anything to this address.


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

Ken512 said:


> I don't know where this information came from, but this appears to be a scam. Someone has opened up an account on gmail using this address to harvest email addresses. Nowhere on googles website do you see this listed as a real service, I advise everyone not to send anything to this address.


Try reading the thread. It is my email account and I just posted it in case anyone else might want to use it. Nowhere have I even tried to get anyone else to use it, just posted it. I use it. It doesn't matter to me if you or anyone else uses it. Like I said, it was put there in case anyone else would like to use it.

I am not scamming anyone and have more to do than try and think up schemes to harvest email addresses. If you don't wish to use it fine but there is no need to call or even insinuate that I am a scam artist. You have nothing to base that on other than you having not read this thread and realizing I had already said that was my email account.


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## Dansbell (Jul 28, 2007)

The concept of certifying an email is interesting. I wouldn't expect an e-mail to hold up as a legal document in court. There may come a time when it will, but I do not believe the courts see it as such now. The return receipt request is the closest argument you can really make that someone actually received your email. Even if you receive a cc of the email you sent, you can not guarantee it was received by the recipient of the actual e-mail. I know a fax is considered a legal document. You can print a confirmation page that will show that the fax was received. It would be interesting to see how the courts view the difference.

That said, I think email is a great tool and important business record. It may hold up as well as your personal daily notes would. Much like a phone conversation it is an effective communication tool. If you need to have a legal standing for a document you better send it certified mail or have your customer sign a document stating they received it.


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## Ken512 (Nov 7, 2006)

I didn't realize that you said it was your account, since that appeared nowhere that I see in your original post. It appeared from your first post that you were telling everyone to use this address that would appear to be a google sponsored service. I apologize for not seeing your other post were you explain it was your account. Had I seen that I would not have accused you of being a scammer.

I still stand by the fact that sending copies of all of your emails to an unknown third party is a terrible idea, and you have no way of knowing who is receiving them or what is being done with them. It serves no purpose since this would never hold up in a court of law. All you can prove is that you sent an email to another party, but your ISP could provide the same record to prove that. Email is a one way communication, there is no way to prove that someone received an email, the technology just doesn't work in that fashion.


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## Ken512 (Nov 7, 2006)

BuildingHomes said:


> Just had to join and point that out eh?


Actually I've been a member for as long as you have, I have just never posted before. I am fairly new to the construction field so I usually don't have much to add to the discussions on this site. However in this case I have a long history of working in the IT field in and around email services, so this particular thread caught my attention.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Ken512 said:


> However in this case I have a long history of working in the IT field in and around email services, so this particular thread caught my attention.


Me too. What turned you into a flooring contractor? Indian outsourcing?


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## Ken512 (Nov 7, 2006)

BuildingHomes said:


> Me too. What turned you into a flooring contractor? Indian outsourcing?


Pretty close, past two places I worked for outsourced all their IT work. Construction was the only other thing I had experience in.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

this sounds too phishy. I.E. phishing scam.


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

BuildingHomes said:


> Your email, passes unencrypted through many systems around the internet. That's how the internet works. Network, talking to network, talking to network.
> 
> If you were really paranoid about the content of emails and wanted to make absolutely sure that the only person who viewed it was the intended recipient, use encryption.


Right.. networks owned by universities and large companies. No offense meant to the guy that started the thread. Testing the waters for a new business is a good thing. I'm just giving you an idea of what kind of trust factor the majority of internet users will have.. I get enough SPAM as it is. So, like I said, no third party gets my email, my customer's email, or any information about bids or otherwise. There is just way too much info to harvest.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

PressurePros said:


> Right.. networks owned by universities and large companies.


And small companies, and small countries, and large countries, and your own government. Mostly it's the senders and receivers computers that you need to worry about as there are so many compromised PCs around the world that can easily bounce email anywhere without the operator being aware.


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

Let's say this is an example email...

Mr. Smith, This is to confirm the color "Misty White" for the color of the countertops.

or

Mr. Jones, It has been over 30 days since we last billed you and still no sign of any funding. Please contact me.

This is the type of emails I use this for. I don't discuss bank balances or illnesses in the family or trade secrets. I bet people are standing in line to find out that Mr. Jones didn't pay his bill. Some things should never even be typed in online much less sent in an email. What I use this for is generally job related and I am not giving away any secrets. If anyone besides me and the recipient have any interest in these emails, they must sure be some sad and pathetic people.

I get a lot of spam myself and from my experience, it isn't who I send emails to that has caused it. Most times it comes from a company I have purchased something from. Sometimes even from their own particular company. Office Depot was sending me 2 emails a day. When I asked them to stop they told me it would take 6 months to get it out of the system. I told them it would be 6 months before I made another purchase from tham. If someone wants your email address, they can get it.

Some of the IT folks that made themselves known, correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe that I am. Part of an email header is an expiration date and time. That is so the email will delete itself after a certain amount of time. I don't believe an email always stops at the recipients email address. If this is the case then all of our email addresses are all flying around anyway. Anyone who wants this information bad enough can get it. I am sure with the right equipment and internet connection, this information would be available.

Anyone here can do this same thing by opening your own account on a different server. Chances are you can open an email account on your own isp's server. You can probably even get the same name, [email protected] or even [email protected] and do this same thing. The only thing you might not be able to do is have it send an email confirmation automatically. You would have to physically forward the email from that account. If it is your own ISP then it will be on the same server, just a different location on the drives.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

DavidNTX said:


> Part of an email header is an expiration date and time. That is so the email will delete itself after a certain amount of time.


Email headers have become full of junk in the last 8 years.

RFC822, A3.1 defines that the minimum required headers for an email are: 1) From: 2) To: 3) Date. And none of these have to be accurrate. 

Everything else is dependant on your email client interpreting it. If it doesn't know what it is, then it is ignored.

Microsoft has greatly exploited this with their Exchange system. All the meeting appointments, calendar dates and such that you can send to other people are just regular emails with some extra headers. Outlook recognises these headers and interprets the emails differently.


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