# Is he fired or did he quit?



## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Had a guy mouth off to me today. It was 3 PM and out of nowhere says-"Can I have my check-I gotta go!"-So I say where? -Your side job? I ask you to work 8 hours a day. When we were slow you begged for hours. Now you won't even stay to work ? He starts calling me a F-n *** and retard. I take a breath hand him his check and wish him luck with his side job-hope it keeps you busy. He says F--- you and drives away. This happened before and I took him back for some reason. Can he collect unemployment off me? It's pretty sad when you feel you don't have control of your own business and no respect from employees. By the way, any tapers in Northeast OHIO looking for a job? Send me message.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Wouldn't finish his shift and left cursing out the owner? If thats not quiting I don't know what is! 

No reason to give him another chance, *EVER!*


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

That's my thought right now. Would like to take a bat to his head though.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

move on, forget it,


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

don't give it a second thought, just let it roll off your back, and find a reliable employee to replace him.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

You need to document it. As an employer that deck is stacked against you. If he does not come back to work, You can let it rest. After a week if he did not come back I would send a certified letter to his house informing him that because he did not show up to work he is terminated. If he comes back you have to sit him down with someone else present and discuss what happen and formally fire him for what he did. I know it sounds like a crock but trust me you want to document it for the future, trust me I have been there.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Document and get witness statements if you have any...what goes against you is giving him his check on the spot, unless you have a record of paying on the end of the week. 

BTW, there would never be another chance, no matter what the excuse. I am getting way to stove up and old to really get with it, but my guys still think I would...they may say things like that behind my back, but they won't say it where I can hear it.


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## Warmsmeallup (Apr 2, 2008)

I'm not just going to suggest it, you MUST document it. If he shows up on Monday and you haven't documented it (providing, of course, he's legal employee) he's still your employee. Was anyone else there when it happened to witness it? "Request" them to sign a letter.

Do you have a "Company Policy" that they signed showing what their vacation time, sick time, personal time, work clothing etc..is? That's required by law too. If you don't have one, they can go to the state and claim that when they quit. they had 2 weeks severence, 2 weeks vacation and sick time coming when they quit. If you don't have something to prove otherwise, the state says "it's what the employee "understood" the policy to be", instead of reality. I had one try that on me. I didn't have a policy that she signed, but it was posted. Someone was watching over me because, while she still worked for me, I bought a new digital camera and took a picture of hert at her desk. Guess what was on the corkboard behind her head!? I had to go to court to fight her damand though. It almost cost me $4800.

DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

I really appreciate all of the responses. My daughter was born last week and it's a little hectic around here right now. Now I have to deal with this. Like my wife was saying- "Would you ever even think about saying those things without expecting to be gone?"


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

CrazyTaper said:


> Had a guy mouth off to me today. It was 3 PM and out of nowhere says-"Can I have my check-I gotta go!"-So I say where? -Your side job? I ask you to work 8 hours a day. When we were slow you begged for hours. Now you won't even stay to work ? He starts calling me a F-n *** and retard. I take a breath hand him his check and wish him luck with his side job-hope it keeps you busy. He says F--- you and drives away. This happened before and I took him back for some reason. Can he collect unemployment off me? It's pretty sad when you feel you don't have control of your own business and no respect from employees. By the way, any tapers in Northeast OHIO looking for a job? Send me message.


 
Sounds like he quit to me to go into business for himself. Therefore, he can't collect unemployment if he quit


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

joasis said:


> Document and get witness statements if you have any...what goes against you is giving him his check on the spot, unless you have a record of paying on the end of the week.
> 
> BTW, there would never be another chance, no matter what the excuse. I am getting way to stove up and old to really get with it, but my guys still think I would...they may say things like that behind my back, but they won't say it where I can hear it.


I always pay on Fridays, 1 week held. This guy isn't very bright. I asked for his sanding pole back from his truck-and he told me -"Try and take it-see what will happen." He obviously had to sand his side job today. I purchased the pole for him. I turned around and walked away. I'm not a confrontational person. Although I do feel a weight off my shoulders.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Brickie said:


> Sounds like he quit to me to go into business for himself. Therefore, he can't collect unemployment if he quit


Good luck to him. 3 years in drywall finishing won't make you a pro. He must know more than me.


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## Warmsmeallup (Apr 2, 2008)

Nevermind..it's just sticks and stones..


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

CrazyTaper said:


> Good luck to him. 3 years in drywall finishing won't make you a pro. He must know more than me.


He's just a punk piece of crap. Post an ad in the Help wanted forum here. You'll have no problem replacing him.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

I have seen a case just like this. UC states it must be documanted in his payroll file. Classified as Violent, Aggressive behavior.
Quit without notice. (Demanded pay and left jobsite.)
Self terminated. (Left Jobsite before end of work day.)
Disrespect and Insubordination.(write him up to document and make him sign if he shows back up for work.)

Questions they are going to ask you if he files for UC. 

Did he quit or was he terminated? 
Was further work available for employee before his aggressive behavior?

If he shows up for work on monday, he can say you terminated him. 
(you can mention to him if he does, "After your behavior on Friday I assumed you were aware that you quit.)

If he doesn't show up then he officially quit.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

I had a guy that turned out just like the one you speak of. I could almost see the daily change in his attitude for about the last ten days of work. He blew his stack in front of a customer when I wasn't there. I found out about it and let him go. He inflated his hours for the last week and I called him on it. He said "don't f with me if you don't want problems, I have your customers names and I'll call them!"

Come to find out, he was offered a better paying job and suddenly felt that I was cheating him. The nice part of this is when I ran a help wanted on CL a few weeks ago, he ended up replying to it.:laughing: I guess what goes around comes around!


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## buildenterprise (Dec 4, 2007)

> The nice part of this is when I ran a help wanted on CL a few weeks ago, he ended up replying to it.:laughing: I guess what goes around comes around!


That's so awesome, don't you just love karma?


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Some of these people just don't realize that a 'better paying job' goes well beyond just it's face value, - - it also has to be lived up to . . .

Way back when me and a buddy were both getting a carpenter job at the same time for the same guy, - - my buddy bragged all that night that he had talked the guy up $2/hr more than I was getting.

Only trouble with that, was, - - he got 'let go' at the end of the first week, - - I was there for six months, - - 'til I left of my own accord . . .


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

I know I can be crabby alot. I really felt that I offer alot of extras most contractors don't. I gave him $18 an hour after only three years. Yes-he showed up on time-but the bitching was constant. His dad is a union concrete guy and I'm sure he's putting stuff in his head. I drive to the jobsites if they are over 25 miles, I gave him $1000.00 X-mas bonus the three years he was here, a week paid vacation. I also spot them hours when we are slow. I know this sounds like I'm trying to justify myself-I know I treated him fair.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Any clue what caused him to go off like this?


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

I think he had already planned at the beginning of the day that we had two jobs and he thought we would be done by 3. Hey-it didn't work out. Sorry.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Jason W said:


> Any clue what caused him to go off like this?


Yeah, he got a side job for $20.00 an hour for the weekend....:hang::hang: He thinks he's struck it rich...part of the dumb masses.

J


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Guys like that don't look past today, if they have $ 20.00 in their pocket they figure they are doing good. 

What state are you in? One thing I will say about CA is we are an at will state, he walked off the job before the end of his shift, that's quiting, document it and when his request for unemployment comes in dispute it.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

J F said:


> Yeah, he got a side job for $20.00 an hour for the weekend....:hang::hang: He thinks he's struck it rich...part of the dumb masses.
> 
> J


The same guy works for me, hes been siding a dormer for $200 for about a week


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

when he shows up for work on monday have a replacement on the job.tell him that you took it that he quit when he wanted his check early and left without finishing the day.if he starts any crap have him escorted of the job with instructions not to return.make sure that all his tools(if any)are there and given back to him at that time.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Taper,

You know this guy, do you think he might come back Moday?


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Certified hot head. Has always had temper problems.


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

When they quit, I give them a tablet and ask them to resign on the paper. If they refuse, write on the tablet that they refuse to sign. They will usually sign the refusal to sign.

I had a guy who quit. A few days later he reconsidered, and thought he got fired. He filed. I wrote my side, complete w/invoices and receipts that showed I was out of town when he claimed he was fired. I sent the information package to the state agency. They said I had to give him the same information. I took it to him, he refused to accept the package. I tossed it on his front lawn, and left. I did have a witness that I tried to deliver the package. An hour later, the state agency called and said he withdrew his claim. Six monthes later he filed again. I had to send the information to the state employment agency again. I also enclosed a note that told them next time, my attorny would handle the matter, including my charges to them to prepare and send the information package. The case was dismissed and never filed again. 

I have had the employment agency allow claims, then tell me they did not even read the papers I sent in to them. 

Tell me again how the government helps small business.


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## trptman (Mar 26, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> I know I can be crabby alot. I really felt that I offer alot of extras most contractors don't. I gave him $18 an hour after only three years. Yes-he showed up on time-but the bitching was constant. His dad is a union concrete guy and I'm sure he's putting stuff in his head. I drive to the jobsites if they are over 25 miles, I gave him $1000.00 X-mas bonus the three years he was here, a week paid vacation. I also spot them hours when we are slow. I know this sounds like I'm trying to justify myself-I know I treated him fair.


sounds like you are very fair. heck, (if I lived a bit closer) you sound like the kind of guy I'd want to work for. Well, that is ,until you discovered that while I'm pretty good at drywall finishing, I'm probably way too slow.:laughing:


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Government agency's are self serving, & usually aren't there to do the right thing. Government agency's want all the work they can get. Unemployment departments aren't interested in fewer claims, or less money going through their department. If we had 100% employment, they'd be out of a job! 
This applies to most govt jobs!

By default, the employer is always the bad guy with unemployment departments. They are suppose to serve the public, but most often only serve themselves. From my experience, logic & fairness has little to do with it.
Joe


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

CrazyTaper said:


> Had a guy mouth off to me today. It was 3 PM and out of nowhere says-"Can I have my check-I gotta go!"-So I say where? -Your side job? I ask you to work 8 hours a day. When we were slow you begged for hours. Now you won't even stay to work ? He starts calling me a F-n *** and retard. I take a breath hand him his check and wish him luck with his side job-hope it keeps you busy. He says F--- you and drives away. This happened before and I took him back for some reason. Can he collect unemployment off me? It's pretty sad when you feel you don't have control of your own business and no respect from employees. By the way, any tapers in Northeast OHIO looking for a job? Send me message.



It would appear that he quit. Wait and see if he files for unemployment. If he does, report to unemployment and tell them he quit. Unemployment should set up a meeting between the two of you and then they'll make a decision on the benefits. I went through a similar situation and got my benefits.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

he was neither fired nor did he quit. At this moment, unless something else has happened, he is still an employee.

If he comes back, you will have to decide what you want to do. In many states, you can fire him for the actions you posted. Some will probably stand behind the employee.

If he doesn't come back, I would take the actions one of the other guys gave with the certified letter stating if he does not return to work by such and such day you will accept his actions as a voluntary quit. You shouldn't have to do that but it will help cover your ass.

The thing is though, if he does return, unless you have a contract with him (which I am sure you don't) you can play with him. You can make him wash your trucks, clean your toilets, just about anything. You can also cut his hours. I would cut them to just above the limit to where he would earn little enough to claim unempluymet (most states allow you to claim if you do not earn a certain amount yet are still employed)


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## wellbuilt home (Oct 22, 2007)

In NY state that guy quit . I never had a problem with the state. Im getting old but we mite have been rolling on the deck . That would piss me off.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

I know this goes back a little, but you don't wait. If he does not show up for work without calling in sick, he has quit, BUT it must be documented as it happens or that night at the latest. 

Either way, If he Quit or Not, does not make a difference to you NOR your Unemployment. See, ya can;t be collecting that while doing side work. Even if you fire him! 

If fact, since he is a jerk. I'd officially fire him and then get some video tape of him working after he files for unemployment. They offer it as evidence to the state for Fraud. Thats worth some time behind bars and restitution


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## master mason (Feb 9, 2008)

A man was walking through the woods one winter when he came apon a snake.The snake says to the man "Mister,Mister please pick me up for I'm freezing to death".The man says to the snake " But if I pick you up, you will bite me".The snake replies "But I promise I won't bite you".So the man picks up the snake,puts him under his coat and continues walking.After the man walks a while,the snake bites the man, and he throws the snake to the ground.The man then says to the snake"You promised not to bite me".The snake then says to the man"You knew what I was when you picked me up".
Crazy is what crazy does. You new what he was when you rehired him.:w00t:


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

*Update: He Wanted His Job Back-wow*

Well he text messages me like I'm 16 years old and says I gave his job away. One of his buddies is a finisher too and recently lost his job-so I scooped him up, and he's as happy as can be. I'm sure this stewed in the idiots stomach all weekend when he heard about it. I'm also pretty sure he checked out the classifieds in the Sunday paper and realized that anybody without much expierience in anything else and only a high school diploma-there's not much out there, and he didn't realize how good he had it. So I call him back just to get this all straight. I said "You cussed me out and threatened to beat the crap out of me-Did you really plan on coming back?" He says-" I never said I quit."-But, CAN I STILL FILE FOR UNMEMPLOYMENT? I GAVE YOU 3 GOOD YEARS. IT'S THE LEAST YOU COULD DO."- YOU QUIT-I'LL FIGHT IT. YOUR ACTIONS ARE ALREADY DOCUMENTED AND I HAVE A WITNESS. YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO AND SO WILL I. GOODBYE. I FEEL LIKE A NEW MAN TODAY FOR FINALLY STANDING UP FOR MYSELF. THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE FOR THE SUPPORT-I KNEW THIS SITE WAS GOOD FOR SOMETHING! I'LL KEEP YOU POSTED ON THE OUTCOME.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Good for you man! Good for you!:clap:

Add: Tell him he can keep your sanding pole as a nice parting gift!:laughing:


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Congrats....

I waited all weekend for the outcome, kinda like waiting for next weeks CSI episode.

Fight him on the Unemployment Insurance...for what it's worth you have our backing


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## knothole (Feb 24, 2006)

CrazyTaper said:


> Well he text messages me like I'm 16 years old and says I gave his job away. One of his buddies is a finisher too and recently lost his job-so I scooped him up, and he's as happy as can be. I'm sure this stewed in the idiots stomach all weekend when he heard about it. I'm also pretty sure he checked out the classifieds in the Sunday paper and realized that anybody without much expierience in anything else and only a high school diploma-there's not much out there, and he didn't realize how good he had it. So I call him back just to get this all straight. I said "You cussed me out and threatened to beat the crap out of me-Did you really plan on coming back?" He says-" I never said I quit."-But, CAN I STILL FILE FOR UNMEMPLOYMENT? I GAVE YOU 3 GOOD YEARS. IT'S THE LEAST YOU COULD DO."- YOU QUIT-I'LL FIGHT IT. YOUR ACTIONS ARE ALREADY DOCUMENTED AND I HAVE A WITNESS. YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO AND SO WILL I. GOODBYE. I FEEL LIKE A NEW MAN TODAY FOR FINALLY STANDING UP FOR MYSELF. THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE FOR THE SUPPORT-I KNEW THIS SITE WAS GOOD FOR SOMETHING! I'LL KEEP YOU POSTED ON THE OUTCOME.


:thumbsup:


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

Best of luck to ya but I see trouble down the road with this. Things were too ambiguous on his part for you to claim he quit. Hopefully he is so dumb he will tell the UI office he quit and that will be it.

If he claims you fired him, I believe it will be up to the state to make the call. In some states, I am sure this would not DQ the kid. In others, it would.

Stay tuned for the next episode of 

"stoopid kid needs a job".


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

I bet the rest of your crew appreciates their job a little more now too = Respect!


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Well played


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

Where did you get those clapping hands, not the smiley, just the hands?


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

*Update #2*

I get the papers today stating that this guy wants his unemployment benefits. The reason being- "Lack Of Work". What a bunch of crap. That's why the two other guys and I are slammed now and working late. Can this happen. I will fight this to my grave to prove I'm right! HELP.:furious:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

When you do the telephone conference call, do not ever directly address the ex-employee. Be nothing but respectful and polite, state the facts, and let him talk himself out of benefits.

I have done, jeez, a lot, and never, ever, paid unemployment when I fought it.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

Fight the unemployment and let them know he walked off the job and quit before the end of work day, demanding his check.

He's just trying to abuse the system and work under the table and collect unemployment.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

MattCoops said:


> Fight the unemployment and let them know he walked off the job and quit before the end of work day, demanding his check.
> 
> He's just trying to abuse the system and work under the table and collect unemployment.


Im in 100% on that!


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

I filed for unemployment for the first time in my life last year. I can tell you the burden of proof is definitely on the person claiming unemployment. From what you've described on this thread I can pretty much (99%) guarantee you have nothing to worry about. The other posters on this site have given you some excellent advice on how to deal with this - simply be the professional that you are. You came to the right place with this problem.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Just to verify-I am not a prick that would deny unemployment to an honest, hard working guy with a family. I understand when money is tight and bills need to be paid. This guy just shouldn't have gone about it the way he did and I don't feel I should be responsible for his ineptitude. Thanks to everyone-I'll keep you posted.


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

Don't let the unemployment agency know he walked... Do it like this!!! On all the paperwork they send you explain he still has a job if he would just show up and you need him and he just hasn't shown up so you thought he quit, if he shows up tomorrow I can put him to work.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

What if he calls my bluff? I'm screwed.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> What if he calls my bluff? I'm screwed.


Yea, don't do that since he's already called to get his job back.

Stick to your guns!


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

If he calls your bluff,(you know he won't) which you and I know the employment agancy only cares there is a job for him, which will deny his unemployment, make his job a living hell and definitely cut his hours. You only need him an hour a day, right? to pick up trash, wash your truck, clean the porta potties on jobsites and cut your grass.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

In NY and Vermont, if you drop his hours to a certain amount, you pay partial U/I. *I think I remember the OP is from NY.

He has stated that this guy does want his job back; in a previouse post.

*Add: And this is just one of many examples of why it's important to PUT YOUR LOCATION ON YOUR PROFILE!

(Hint for CrazyTaper:whistling)


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

The manner in which he quit was threatening, and you have witnesses. There is no way he should be able to draw benefits from unemployment. Fight it all the way. I would feel sorry for anyone being out of work with kids to feed, but he did it, you didn't.


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## Tin Cup (Nov 22, 2007)

many, many years ago, in my corporate life, i fired a guy after he pushed me too far. nothin til six months later. we got notice there was a claim. company owner hooked me up with his attorney to fight it. at the hearing the guys wife was there, but not him. we asked why he wasn't representing himself. answer "he died a couple of months ago".

Wow, said ok., finished the hearing, we won, i felt like a heel. if we'd know, we'd probably never fought it for any reason. 15yrs later i still wonder sometimes how i could have handled the entire situation better.

Tin Cup


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

joasis said:


> The manner in which he quit was threatening, and you have witnesses. There is no way he should be able to draw benefits from unemployment. Fight it all the way. I would feel sorry for anyone being out of work with kids to feed, but he did it, you didn't.


I still do not see it as the guy quit. He _asked_ for his check (presumably it was payday as crazy had his check right there) and said he had to go. Well, if I have a doctors appointment, I'm going to say the same thing.

This is where i believe crazy may get caught in this. The guy did not quit but crazy hired a new worker and told the guy he didn;t have a job anymore.

It all depends on where you stand but that looks like crazy fired him to me. 

the state will make their determination. Just so you'all don't think I support the worker, I don;t. I believe crazy had just cause to fire him but everybody wants to play the "he quit" game. That, I think, is going to be the problem in this situation.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

nap said:


> I still do not see it as the guy quit. He _asked_ for his check (presumably it was payday as crazy had his check right there) and said he had to go. Well, if I have a doctors appointment, I'm going to say the same thing.
> 
> This is where i believe crazy may get caught in this. The guy did not quit but crazy hired a new worker and told the guy he didn;t have a job anymore.
> 
> ...


Nap, I think you missed something. 

The guy said to Crazy, "Give me my check, I gotta go." 

Then when he was asked to continue working in a reasonable fashion he stated, 

"GIVE ME MY CHECK YOU F**KING ***, I HAVE TO GO!" 


This was at 3pm he was designated to work until 5 pm (this is an assumption as it was never clarified.)

He left without authorization from the boss. 

This will clearly fall under the heading of violent behavior and willfull separation in the U.C. claim.

Guy talks to me like that he better hope to make it off the job with his life. Much less his job.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Situation: 25 yr. old male with 25 yr. old female recently married with 6 mo. old unexpected delivery. Why am I the heel in all of this. My business is another child to me. I have a 4 yr. old and a new born myself. I had to rid the cancer from the clubhouse. If he wouldn't have quit first, I would have fired him within 3 months. This post may be re-directed to another forum-but I feel a need to vent here-The "employee" came to work for me 3 years ago right from the prep lines of "OUTBACK"-steakhouse. He was making $12hr.prep cook. I oferred him the job at $13-promising a $1.00/hr raise every 6 mo.$18/ hr is pretty good on my standards if you ask me.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

wizendwizard said:


> Nap, I think you missed something.
> 
> The guy said to Crazy, "Give me my check, I gotta go."
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is my situation. He left before his shift and he threatened me-he quit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

CrazyTaper said:


> Had a guy mouth off to me today. It was 3 PM and out of nowhere says-"Can I have my check-I gotta go!"-So I say where? -Your side job? I ask you to work 8 hours a day. When we were slow you begged for hours. Now you won't even stay to work ? He starts calling me a F-n *** and retard. I take a breath hand him his check and wish him luck with his side job-hope it keeps you busy. He says F--- you and drives away. This happened before and I took him back for some reason. Can he collect unemployment off me? It's pretty sad when you feel you don't have control of your own business and no respect from employees. By the way, any tapers in Northeast OHIO looking for a job? Send me message.



Ohio i would think there would be a abundent amount of labor in that state. Its my understanding Ohio is hurting.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

CrazyTaper said:


> Situation: 25 yr. old male with 25 yr. old female recently married with 6 mo. old unexpected delivery. Why am I the heel in all of this. My business is another child to me. I have a 4 yr. old and a new born myself. I had to rid the cancer from the clubhouse. If he wouldn't have quit first, I would have fired him within 3 months. This post may be re-directed to another forum-but I feel a need to vent here-The "employee" came to work for me 3 years ago right from the prep lines of "OUTBACK"-steakhouse. He was making $12hr.prep cook. I oferred him the job at $13-promising a $1.00/hr raise every 6 mo.$18/ hr is pretty good on my standards if you ask me.


I do not think you are the heel in this. I just think you may end up getting hurt because of how it happened. I would hope not but I can see how it could easily happen.

One thing everybody must understand is we are only hearing one side of the story. Almost everybody relates a story that shows them in the best light. It is natural to do so. I am simply trying to show you what the UI office may be seeing, especially since the only info they have to date is the ex-employee.

So, no, I am not missing anything. A little untruth to the UI office can explain eveything this guy did and he may very well have done so. The problem is you will have a hard time disputing his rendition of the story, especially since you had a new employee before the new week. You new he was gone and if the ex states he did not quit and had no intention of quitting, it wil look like you fired him.

If I just found out my kid or wife was seriuosly injured, I would be saying exactly what the kid said. I have to go. If it is serious, you may not get an explanation due to my mind not being "on the job" but already with my kin.

As he stated, I never said "I quit". 

That is where I believe you would benefit anyway. Rather than trying to pussyfoot around with this "He quit" bs, I would simply tell them I did fire him because he was insubordinate, abandoned his job, and was threatening. The fact you claim he quit will minimize, or even negate any of that as support for your position. Noneof that is important if you claim he quit. It is extremely important if you fired him.

this statement right here is very telling of your position and belief of the situation:



> I had to rid the cancer from the clubhouse.


so, did you rid yourself of the cancer or did the necrotic limb fall away as all dead tissue will?

pay is irrelevent as well. It does not have anything to do with the situation at hand.

the thing is, you say he claimed he was fired/laid off due to lack of work. You will be telling them that is not true, you have plenty of work. What are you going to tell them as to why you seperated from him? He quit? You fired him? In either case. why?

So, by your current position, you are going to say he quit. He says he didn;t. So, based upon that and since you did replace him and there is no position for him, he is now, by default, correct that there is no work for him. Point- kid.

This is your thing but I suspect the UI office will accept his story that he did not quit. The actions of all show otherwise as long as he has the slightest of justification for leaving.

best of luck to you. I do hope you prevail as you should. The thing is the real world just doesn;t respond logically sometimes.


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## Timster (Feb 1, 2006)

CrazyTaper said:


> I know I can be crabby alot. I really felt that I offer alot of extras most contractors don't. I gave him $18 an hour after only three years. Yes-he showed up on time-but the bitching was constant. His dad is a union concrete guy and I'm sure he's putting stuff in his head. I drive to the jobsites if they are over 25 miles, I gave him $1000.00 X-mas bonus the three years he was here, a week paid vacation. I also spot them hours when we are slow. I know this sounds like I'm trying to justify myself-I know I treated him fair.



I learned the hard way that employees do not appreciate bonuses, paid health coverage, or raises; at least everyone that I hired in a business I owned outside of the skilled trades... I would give a nice bonus, and they would all call in sick on Monday.

Screw em'.

By the way, all the drywall owners I know are total Alpha-dogs, totally in control of their pack; really nice guys, but you get the sense they might kill an employee if they feel like it. 

I love drywall contractors. Their employees are some of the best people I have met; sorry you had this experience.

I remember I got a shock flashlight and tricked the drywall contractor into getting shocked. Seriously, this shock flashlight, felt like a 120v shock, honestly, and I get them all the time, unfortunately.

Drywall contractor then grabbed the shocker, and held onto it and wouldn't let go; said he and his buddies would get drunk in Mexico and grab onto a shocker thing to see who could hold on the longest; then he ran off with it and shocked one of his guys; he screamed so loud... Then he chased me (the GC on the job) all over the units; yes I screamed too. :w00t:

He shocked everyone of his guys before he was happy. His guys love him, too. Great rockers.

Good times.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

nap said:


> So, no, I am not missing anything. A little untruth to the UI office can explain eveything this guy did and he may very well have done so. The problem is you will have a hard time disputing his rendition of the story, especially since you had a new employee before the new week. You new he was gone and if the ex states he did not quit and had no intention of quitting, it wil look like you fired him.
> 
> If I just found out my kid or wife was seriuosly injured, I would be saying exactly what the kid said. I have to go. If it is serious, you may not get an explanation due to my mind not being "on the job" but already with my kin.


I can see what you are saying, but the language used negates the argument. If I were an employee, and I was notified there was a problem at home, I would tell my boss I have to go....if he didn't like it, he would be speaking to my back as I headed out the door. Demanding his check also negates your argument...if your wife or child were injured, you would take time to worry about a pay check? 

I realize you are simply playing the "devil's advocate", but without witnesses, taper has this won, simply because the guy left early, as reflected by the paycheck, which was not "customary", and can be proven to have another job. 

I know laws differ from state to state, but if I fire someone, I have 24 hours to pay them. 

I'll add this thought as well....I am getting a little old for drama and theatrics on my job sites...if this guy called me the names he called taper, he would never have a job from me again, and if he went nose to nose with me, he might have to consider a detour leaving the job site. Anyone who takes that kind of abuse is only asking for it to be worse "next time".


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

joasis said:


> I'll add this thought as well....I am getting a little old for drama and theatrics on my job sites...if this guy called me the names he called taper, he would never have a job from me again, and if he went nose to nose with me, he might have to consider a detour leaving the job site. Anyone who takes that kind of abuse is only asking for it to be worse "next time".


 
Exactly, another point that should be mentioned. For anyone else who may go thru this situations benefit is this. Not only did this former employee NOT show due respect for the "boss", he did it in plain sight of other employee's and possibly The project owner. With this being the case, if this situation is left alone and Crazy allows the U.C. to be awarded for any reason, his authority is severely underminded in the eyes of other employees.

Nap, I give you an allowance on the bit about only knowing 1 side of the story. Thats as far as I am going to see your point. Disrespect of an owner by employees should never be tolerated. PERIOD. 

The subtle nuances of U.C. claims can cause any businessman to cringe at the thought of it. What are these nuances? Anyone have the U.I. qualification handbook? 

If you FIRE an employee unjustly the claim is automatically issued. If the employee QUITS, under any circumstances where work was still available the claim will be denied. Or there will be a disqualification period. 8 weeks to 13 weeks usually or earnings equal in the amount of the previous quarter.

IMO, NO employee that shows violence or disrespect for administration should be allowed U.C.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

A problem at home, involving a spouse or child is a whole nother story. Like I stated- I'm not a prick, and I felt I could never even raise my voice to this guy because he was a hot head. Asking just simple directions caused him to get all heated up if it wasn't something he "WANTED" to do, or a task he felt wasn't his. (cleaning tools, getting water, loading up the trucks). He text messaged, (LIKE A 16 year old), one of the other guys this week and stated that he had always hated the job and felt like he was in prison. I never thought I would get this much feedback from this site-Thanks again everyone.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> A problem at home, involving a spouse or child is a whole nother story. Like I stated- I'm not a prick, and I felt I could never even raise my voice to this guy because he was a hot head. Asking just simple directions caused him to get all heated up if it wasn't something he "WANTED" to do, or a task he felt wasn't his. (cleaning tools, getting water, loading up the trucks). He text messaged, (LIKE A 16 year old), one of the other guys this week and stated that he had always hated the job and felt like he was in prison. I never thought I would get this much feedback from this site-Thanks again everyone.


If he hated the job, WHY did he expect to be able to come back?

See now he's trying to cause desention in the ranks. If he can get the other employees on his side and to leave you then you lose some of your documentation. That sucks!!!


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

In Oklahoma, an employer starts the UI rate at around 3%...no claims for 2 years, it goes down to 1% or so....in this state, a lot of claims are disputed on this basis alone...it costs money to you later if you have even one claim. 

I think I said it bofore, and in a lot of other threads...document everything....if he does file, and you dispute the claim, I bet money he won't show up, and if he does, have copies of everything, including proof of hours typically worked by all your employees, showing that lack of work is not an issue, but walking off the job is. 

I cannot believe this thread has went on like this, over a simple matter. Had I been in your shoes, I wouldn't have lot one minute of sleep over worrying and wondering what a POS like this creep would or could do.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

> joasis;424142]I can see what you are saying, but the language used negates the argument. If I were an employee, and I was notified there was a problem at home, I would tell my boss I have to go....if he didn't like it, he would be speaking to my back as I headed out the door.


but not everybody responds to things as you do. As well, we need to understand we only have crazy's point of view here. I have rarely seen a confrontation that both sides were in agreement of the facts.



> Demanding his check also negates your argument...if your wife or child were injured, you would take time to worry about a pay check?


as posted by crazy, he didn't "demand" his check.
from the first post:


> -"Can I have my check-I gotta go!"-


Is that demanding? Not even close. His statement of "I gotta go" also tends to make me believe there was no anger at this point. We don;t even know when payday is or paytime. Crazy could have been standing right there with the check in hand for all we know and the guy may have said something that might have been missed that crazy should have known why this guy was leaving.

The whole thing sounds a bit contrived on crazys part. The guy wants his check, has to go "somewhere" and when crazy responds, the guy goes ballistic. Not saying there aren't guys out there like that but crazy's rendition just does not make any sense to the escalation.

as to the exapmple of the wife or children, well, that was merely an example. I can give many reasons for why he left but the fact is, I have no idea as to why and I am not privy to the details of the conversation leading up to this exchange.



> I realize you are simply playing the "devil's advocate", but without witnesses, taper has this won, simply because the guy left early, as reflected by the paycheck, which was not "customary", and can be proven to have another job.


we'll have to simply disagree on this point. I find it far from a sure thing,even with the additional comments. 



> I know laws differ from state to state, but if I fire someone, I have 24 hours to pay them.


not sure what this has to do with anything. 



> I'll add this thought as well....I am getting a little old for drama and theatrics on my job sites...if this guy called me the names he called taper, he would never have a job from me again, and if he went nose to nose with me, he might have to consider a detour leaving the job site. Anyone who takes that kind of abuse is only asking for it to be worse "next time".]


I don;t neccessarily disagree with you. I do not believe any boss should be subjected to what crazy was but by his own admission, he knew the guy was like this and took him back. I look at that as acceptance of this guys demeanor to some extent.

I would have fired him and I gave acceptable and justifiable reasons for doing so. The problem is crazy is claiming to not have fired him but claiming the guy quit.

I believe terminating the guy would have prevented all of the problems. If crazy had simply said," look, you have a job now but if you leave early, you are fired" would have conveyed the point clearly and crazy would not be experiencing all this angst. Nobody formally quit and nobody formally got fired, there was simply another guy standing on the kids baker. That looks like a default termination to me.

best of luck to ya crazy. You are in the right when you get to the bottom of everything. I just hope it doesn;t become a lesson you had to pay for.

let us know how this thing ends up.


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## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

IVE followed this thread , had a similar situation ,Best way Ive found to handle a situation when an employee gets outa line is give him 10 days off discipinary action and tell him come back in 10 days to talk about his job, they usally dont come back, and that constitutes quitting:laughing: when he sighns up for unemployment comp.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

no input, just reading, but nap...i like your style, you've explained yourself well.

j


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

J F said:


> no input, just reading, but nap...i like your style, you've explained yourself well.
> 
> j


Fair enough nap. I also like your style. Would you mind representing me during the phone deposition? For a small fee, or a backrub?:w00t:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I wish you well Crazy, you seem like you're going at this in the right way... (give us a hint on your given name though...I get away with J, because I'm... Jay.

J (Jay)


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## GSE (Aug 24, 2007)

"GIVE ME MY CHECK YOU F**KING ***, I HAVE TO GO!" 

That is eniough for me, I would not care un employment or no unemployment, the trash mouth moron, would be finished, i would not want him anyone near or around any of my employees, or customers, let him find a job in the mud with the pigs, where he belongs.


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

Is there a record for most replies to a post? -Do I win a prize for initiating the post? :laughing:


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

J F said:


> I wish you well Crazy, you seem like you're going at this in the right way... (give us a hint on your given name though...I get away with J, because I'm... Jay.
> 
> J (Jay)


In time guys. I have been on the site for a while and have made some horrendous posts in the past. My respect for the site has grown enormously over the past few weeks and I wouldn't want to incriminate myself.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

CrazyTaper said:


> Is there a record for most replies to a post? -Do I win a prize for initiating the post? :laughing:


LOL, I'm sure there isn't, but you're not even close to having the most replies from 1 thread. I've seen 1 with 17 pages of posts.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

J F said:


> no input, just reading, but nap...i like your style, you've explained yourself well.
> 
> j





CrazyTaper said:


> Fair enough nap. I also like your style. Would you mind representing me during the phone deposition? For a small fee, or a backrub?:w00t:


 
thanks guys. I rub enough folks the other direction enough, it's nice to get the pat.


and did you say _backrub_??:w00t:


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## CrazyTaper (Oct 9, 2007)

*Update!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3*

I WON! I WON! I WON! CRAZY TAPER WINS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHA, WOOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WON MY UNEMPLOYMENT CASE!!!!!!!!! THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!! DRINKS ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Congrats.


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