# Most efficient way to lay architectural shingles.



## livingsoulsdie

I am currently working with one other guy & we do A decent amount of roofs per year. I have done a few roofs the way my co-worker likes to do it and thats to start in the center and we both go each way. I found that I hate roofing this way. Although it is pretty fast both people have to cut on the ends and each guy must lay the shingles perfect in order to get a straight line when you get up to the ridge (which rarely happens with the person I work with) . I found pre-cutting a shingle at 8" saving the waste and cutting another shingle at 16" saving the waste and a full shingle works very well. I figure out how many courses I will need and pre-cut all my starters while the other guy pops the lines & gets ready(If its a long roof I just cut 5 sets of starters at a time(25starters) ). One guy lays field while the other guys cuts & lays some field. Seems to move way faster and lines are perfect up to the ridge. 
Anyone else have a preferred method of laying architecturals most efficiently?


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## TimelessQuality

A feeder and a gunner and fly:thumbsup:


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## griz

TimelessQuality said:


> A feeder and a gunner and fly:thumbsup:



That's the way the hot shot pros do it around here.

That racking method may not be copacetic with the manufacturer...:whistling


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## donerightwyo

The gunner's gotta be screamin, "shingles, shingles".


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## JWilliams

i was taught you don't rack architectural shingles. three tabs yes but archs no. i believe on some architectural shingle wrappers it says something about they don't recommend racking...just did a 55 square over the weekend. i don't know the real name for the actually method for laying them but i call it stair stepping. someone correct me if im wrong.


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## FerrisHI

Stepping them is definitely the way we do them also...your going to create that zipper effect if you rack them...


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## MJW

Racking arch's will void your wind warranty.

We will start in a valley and go toward the rake, unless there is no valley. Then we start at the rake or hip and stair step. Same with 3 tabs, but haven't touched one in years.


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## kubie

TimelessQuality said:


> A feeder and a gunner and fly:thumbsup:


thats the way i shingle. i cant stand having to put the gun down and peel apart the shingles, thats why i have a person feeding me.


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## livingsoulsdie

kubie said:


> thats the way i shingle. i cant stand having to put the gun down and peel apart the shingles, thats why i have a person feeding me.


I understand. I just cant justify having someone get paid $20/hr just to feed shingles when we can both lay them semi-efficiently alone. If anything we should hire an extra hand as a feeder for the guy in the field.
Thx


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## kage

livingsoulsdie said:


> If anything we should hire an extra hand as a feeder for the guy in the field.
> Thx


this is what i do with a new guy..teach him at same time...before ya know it..another shingler is born..:thumbsup:


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## LCG

One guy builds the book and two more run the feild. We run 7rows then check for square. Chalk a line if needed then run another 15-20 rows depending on how the shingles are laying down. We stop short 4 rows from the dormer ridge and check for alignment, make adjustments and proceed to the top.

The guy building books should be your lead man. The guy cutting the other end should be the second best and the guy laying "field only" should be your new guy.

Run from the valley to the rake. The valley shingle should be dead center valley. We chalk an 8" line on the opposite side of the valley. The high corner of the shingle touches this line. This puts your shingle close to center in almost every valley. If your using valley metal then chaulk a minimum 2" line away from the center divider and start laying shingles.

Sounds like your lead man needs a lead man!


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## greg24k

On the roof I hope...


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## LCG

One by one works pretty well. So i have heard.


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## RandyB1986

This post cracks me up........how many years you been doing a decent amount of roofs?


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## livingsoulsdie

RandyB1986 said:


> This post cracks me up........how many years you been doing a decent amount of roofs?


About 7 years.

Why does this crack you up?


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## FerrisHI

Exactly how we do it...seems to work



LCG said:


> One guy builds the book and two more run the feild. We run 7rows then check for square. Chalk a line if needed then run another 15-20 rows depending on how the shingles are laying down. We stop short 4 rows from the dormer ridge and check for alignment, make adjustments and proceed to the top.
> 
> The guy building books should be your lead man. The guy cutting the other end should be the second best and the guy laying "field only" should be your new guy.
> 
> Run from the valley to the rake. The valley shingle should be dead center valley. We chalk an 8" line on the opposite side of the valley. The high corner of the shingle touches this line. This puts your shingle close to center in almost every valley. If your using valley metal then chaulk a minimum 2" line away from the center divider and start laying shingles.
> 
> Sounds like your lead man needs a lead man!


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## Tom M

Racking verse stepping again? NO PLEASE


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## JWilliams

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooooooooo


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## pro exteriors

Not sure what its called so maybe someone has already said this method. We shingle with 4 guys, 2 feeders and 2 gunners. One group starts the stagger by cutting 6" or whatever it comes out to, we do it so every piece gets used. The second group starts a few min later and runs about half the roof over right to left. The feeder sets the shingles in to The stagger at about a 60-70 degree angle, the top right corner of the shingle goes under the course it will be lining up with and bottom right corner over the course that it will overlap and lays them like that all the way up the stagger so the gunner doesn't have to wait even a split second to be handed a shingle. Gunner puts his gun on the course below in hi his right hand then with the left you grab the left side of the shingle and pull it down until you feel it lined up correctly then nail it. We rarely chalk lines unless its getting two sections to line up above a dormer or something, take the extra time to get the paper straight then there is no wasted time snapping lines. That description may have been confusing, I can take some pics if anyone is interested in seeing how it looks. That also allows the feeder to get 15-20 rows ahead and freer them up to grab nails, caulk or whatever and allows the gunner to do nothing but nail as fasthe can.


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## pro exteriors

pro exteriors said:


> Not sure what its called so maybe someone has already said this method. We shingle with 4 guys, 2 feeders and 2 gunners. One group starts the stagger by cutting 6" or whatever it comes out to, we do it so every piece gets used. The second group starts a few min later and runs about half the roof over right to left. The feeder sets the shingles in to The stagger at about a 60-70 degree angle, the top right corner of the shingle goes under the course it will be lining up with and bottom right corner over the course that it will overlap and lays them like that all the way up the stagger so the gunner doesn't have to wait even a split second to be handed a shingle. Gunner puts his gun on the course below in hi his right hand then with the left you grab the left side of the shingle and pull it down until you feel it lined up correctly then nail it. We rarely chalk lines unless its getting two sections to line up above a dormer or something, take the extra time to get the paper straight then there is no wasted time snapping lines. That description may have been confusing, I can take some pics if anyone is interested in seeing how it looks. That also allows the feeder to get 15-20 rows ahead and freer them up to grab nails, caulk or whatever and allows the gunner to do nothing but nail as fasthe can.


Sorry for the horrible spelling and grammar, trying to type too fast on my phone.


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## MJW

What's all this talk about using a chalk line? We use one to put on the hips and that's about it for shingling.


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## BamBamm5144

No chalk lines


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## CUT2XStillShort

I think we have a 20 year-old bottle of chalk around here somewhere...


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## sunkist

gotto say it smooth side down,


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## Nick R

Forgive my ignorance, but what is racking referring to?


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## BamBamm5144

Nick R said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but what is racking referring to?


Installing shingles Vertically


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## JWilliams

ahh finally sold 3 more metal roofs and some flat.. hopefully no more shingles for awhile! :clap:


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## LCG

BamBamm5144 said:


> No chalk lines


WOW, your soooo good! Some of us just can't see straight enough to run a clean line I guess. I'll have to work on my free hand.

Oh thats right. We haven't run mulitiple crews in multiple states at the same time. We are not currently strung across 2 states and all of our installers are created equal in their abilities in running straight courses. 

Oh yeah, all of our new hires come skilled and have more roofing experience than me. They all come as skilled as you guys don't they! Lets not forget that every home is framed square. We haven't ever roofed a home that was 7" out of square from eve to ridge. 

I must be roofing the wrong way to be scorned for going the exta mile and requiring chaulked lines every once in awhile. 

I'm going to take the chaulk line's away from our crews and refuse to use them, forever.

Im positive our quality is going to be better than it already is. My motto of "The only thing I expect is perfection." will finally be attained.

Salvation has finally arrived...


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## wnc viking

I hate the way racking looks it shows so bad


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## BamBamm5144

LCG said:


> WOW, your soooo good! Some of us just can't see straight enough to run a clean line I guess. I'll have to work on my free hand.
> 
> Oh thats right. We haven't run mulitiple crews in multiple states at the same time. We are not currently strung across 2 states and all of our installers are created equal in their abilities in running straight courses.
> 
> Oh yeah, all of our new hires come skilled and have more roofing experience than me. They all come as skilled as you guys don't they! Lets not forget that every home is framed square. We haven't ever roofed a home that was 7" out of square from eve to ridge.
> 
> I must be roofing the wrong way to be scorned for going the exta mile and requiring chaulked lines every once in awhile.
> 
> I'm going to take the chaulk line's away from our crews and refuse to use them, forever.
> 
> Im positive our quality is going to be better than it already is. My motto of "The only thing I expect is perfection." will finally be attained.
> 
> Salvation has finally arrived...


That's comical.

Who is running multiple crews across two states?

Personally, all of my guys have been trained from within and the foreman and I were both trained from the same guy. We also don't have guys just sit and "feed" shingles. I prefer the time being taken to install them properly rather than quickly and improperly especially since most of our roofs have the possibility of being inspected by the manufacturer.

You also said you chalk lines every 5th row and 20 courses. Why not run the felt straight? Seems like it would save time.


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## BamBamm5144

Forgot to mention, nothing wrong with using chalk lines.


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## LCG

We run crews on commercial projects in three states.

We run a minimum of 6' of ice guard along the eves or 2' beyond the interior wall. Whichever is greater. Paper, whats that! We run titanium udl and weave the valleys. 

We are certified Malarkey for our shingle line. IB, Fibertite, and Carlisle for our commercial lines. 

Look if you want to take the time to run perfect paper then I commend you on that! I don't... Wyoming has what you may call "variable wind". Meaning between 20mph and 60 mph in a matter of seconds. Getting the paper on is a chore in and of itself. Chaulking lines far easier than dealing with straight paper.

I honestly thought you were promoting total free hand. Honestly I could free hand most roofs if I installed them myself. I to belive that the roof is in the underlayment. I'm just not as picky on straight underlayment. UDL never lays perfectly flat anyway.


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## MJW

LCG, what are you saying? You have incompetent installers, so you use tools and materials to make up for their short comings and lack of experience?
Doesn't that just slow down your best guys and slow the entire process?


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## LCG

No,

What I am saying is using an F'ing chaulk line is not a sin.

Bragging about not using one is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. 100% of the roofers I know who don't use chaulk lines have crooked runs.

Don't let what you do know get in the way of what you dont know.


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## Tom M

I prefer lines but I also can do straight runs with out.

What I do is run 2 horizontal rows at a time so I stay straighter over 6ft than 3ft. This helps alot because many roofs have humps and waves so without lines things can go a little wild.


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## RandyB1986

I caught one of the guys on our crew using his finger as a rule to run starters up the gable, in front of the homeowner! Like his finger is same size as every other guys. I got so mad I threatened to fire the entire crew. They have a tape and chalk box in that pouch for a reason, and it just takes a minute.

I despise some short cuts. Such as no cut valleys, metal over box vent holes instead of new decking, eterna bond for counter flashing, notching around dishes instead of removing and installing box, etc.


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## kage

RandyB1986 said:


> I caught one of the guys on our crew using his finger as a rule to run starters up the gable, in front of the homeowner!.


1 knuckle all the way..always do it this way and NEVER have had a problem..and if hes the only one doing that side...big deal!!


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## kage

chalk lines on our crews are for beginners..


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## bluebird5

RandyB1986 said:


> I caught one of the guys on our crew using his finger as a rule to run starters up the gable, in front of the homeowner! *Like his finger is same size as every other guys.* I got so mad I threatened to fire the entire crew. They have a tape and chalk box in that pouch for a reason, and it just takes a minute.
> 
> I despise some short cuts. Such as no cut valleys, metal over box vent holes instead of new decking, eterna bond for counter flashing, notching around dishes instead of removing and installing box, etc.


:laughing::laughing: I love it.


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## mnjconstruction

LCG said:


> We run crews on commercial projects in three states.
> 
> We run a minimum of 6' of ice guard along the eves or 2' beyond the interior wall. Whichever is greater. Paper, whats that! We run titanium udl and weave the valleys.
> 
> We are certified Malarkey for our shingle line. IB, Fibertite, and Carlisle for our commercial lines.
> 
> Look if you want to take the time to run perfect paper then I commend you on that! I don't... Wyoming has what you may call "variable wind". Meaning between 20mph and 60 mph in a matter of seconds. Getting the paper on is a chore in and of itself. Chaulking lines far easier than dealing with straight paper.
> 
> I honestly thought you were promoting total free hand. Honestly I could free hand most roofs if I installed them myself. I to belive that the roof is in the underlayment. I'm just not as picky on straight underlayment. UDL never lays perfectly flat anyway.



You weave arch shingles valleys????


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## FerrisHI

Why measure anything??? just eyeball it... Get rid of the calculators and just do it in your head...the chalk lines are there to make sure you get it straight... We snap lines on every roof and my guys are very skilled...


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## kage

FerrisHI said:


> Why measure anything??? just eyeball it... Get rid of the calculators and just do it in your head...the chalk lines are there to make sure you get it straight... We snap lines on every roof and my guys are very skilled...


Why measure?? because it would be dumb not too..
just eyeball it?? you can on some stuff ..
no calculators?? so..cant you multiply and divide??
chalk lines so your straight?? yea on hips and valleys maybe..
whether you use a line or not isnt what makes you skillful..


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## Stephen H

we use chalk lines all the time.

I imagine it comes from starting out years and years ago laying 3 tab shingles and snapping a line every 10 inches( every other course.)

Years later we still snap lines every other course,only now we do it every 11 inches for dimensionals.

frankly I can't imagine NOT using chalklines- it only takes a few minutes per roof and it saves so much more time.

We rarely work and easy walker-almost all are scaffold jobs with numerous valleys,dormers,chimneys- lots of tie ins to make etc.

current roof is OLD----it's a hip roof with about a 3" sag in 16 feet along the ridge-an L shaped addition on the back that is about 2" out of square in about 5 feet and so forth.

BTW- I generally use the "knuckle method" to run a soldier course up the rake for dimensional shingles- in that case a chalk line will often be less effective.----- if the rake has a banana in it a chaqlk line may give you a perfect reveal top and bottom and ZERO or Less than Zero reveal in the middle of the rake------or if the banana runs the other way you can have a 2" reveal in the middle.- the knuckle method keeps the soldier course quite // with the rake, despite the banana and typically no one will ever know the fly rafter is that far out of wack.

also-snapping lines means you can do a lot of things out of sequence and still make perfect tie ins etc.

Best wishes,
stephen


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## kubie

we used to snap every 11", not now

we wasted bundles of shingles that way. we now snap 11 1/8, 22 1/4, 33 3/3, 44 1/2 ect, we can make up 1" in 8'

may not seem like alot, but on long runs, you will be surprised on the amount of shingles you save.

i think i snap lines out of habit, keeping the 4 tab hearthsteads straight(i hated putting them on)


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## FerrisHI

Do they not have sarcasm up north...Oh i can multiply and divide...but when it comes to my money i use a calculator because i'm not perfect...




kage said:


> Why measure?? because it would be dumb not too..
> just eyeball it?? you can on some stuff ..
> no calculators?? so..cant you multiply and divide??
> chalk lines so your straight?? yea on hips and valleys maybe..
> whether you use a line or not isnt what makes you skillful..


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## kage

FerrisHI said:


> Do they not have sarcasm up north...Oh i can multiply and divide...but when it comes to my money i use a calculator because i'm not perfect...


I agree..i was just sayin..


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## schaefercs

Never heard the term knuckle method before. Anyone care to share a quick explanation?


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## kage

one knuckle..one inch


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