# Exterior Door Installation



## BoydS (Dec 7, 2006)

I'll try and answer your questions, and I aplogize for the long reply.



> Originally posted by *Patrick*
> _It comes down to what did you actually pay for, what does your contract say they are going to do?_


For the door installations they were to do everything except paint. So I expected a completely professional installation with them finishing it all out and I was left with only painting.



> Originally posted by *Home Serve*
> _Do you use these doors everyday? If so I'd make them take em out and put them in right. Hope you didn't pay? them_.


Yes, both doors are used daily. 30% down is all that has been paid to date.



> Originally posted by *Patrick*
> _Drop cloth????? No?_


No drop cloth was used on any of the door installations. The main one the ticks me off is when the patio door was installed. There was glass in the yard and on the carpet after the guy busted the windows out.



> Originally posted by *TimelessQuality*
> _Does the door seal when closed?_


Actually, they do.



> Originally posted by *neolitic*
> _Looks like a Lowes "Quality Installation"._


The installer did tell me that he used to work there before he got this job. I believe he should go back to work from them.



> Originally posted by *Patrick*
> _I wouldn't hold that against the installer. Heres a pic of a Therma-Tru Harvey sent me a few weeks ago. It CAME like this I made NO modifications_


And I was told by the company I am dealing with that these are quality doors. Guess I should have done more homework.



> Originally posted by *Patrick*
> _Thats clearly a PRE Hung Therma Tru, Most HD's have to special order Therma Tru's_


Yes, these are pre hung and the company I am dealing with stated they were to be ordered from Therma Tru. This company is quite established (not from HD nor Lowes).



> Originally posted by *wallmaxx*
> _Can't help you on this one._


Thanks for the contact, I may be calling him.

I contacted the company today and again told them of my disappointment with this installers work. They did apolgize and again stated that they would thake care of everything. The companys VP is now going to inspect the work. I know the exterior trim needs to be replaced, but what how woud ya'll correct the problem and with what materials..? What is the standard ..?

I've also uploaded pics on the patio door installation. My concerns here are several. Look at the hack job on the cutting of the brick, which has been left unfinished. The threshold is another issue. And of course you'll see more problems by viewing those pics. There is also a pic of the cable that was cut when the installer did the demo.

I really appreciate the help and want to be able to explain to this VP the corrections that need to be made to make things right. Thanks again.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

For the Record Therma Tru doors are VERY HIGH QUALITY doors. The problem lies with whoever assembles the door. Therma Tru sells the door frames and the slabs to a distributor who then assembles them and sells them to the contractor. I would also suggest finding out who the contractor buys his doors from and call up for a rep to come out and look, the rep will likely not be able to say anything about the install, but he will surely have some not so kind words for the contractor in private, and likely embarrass the hell out of the contractor.

Demand brand new doors and frames, DO NOT settle for them reinstalling what you currently have make them eat the cost. 

Why on earth would someone need to bust the glass out on a patio door? For fun????


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

I just now saw the patio door photos!

I agree, I would not let them try and correct what you have installed now, demand that everything be replaced new!

Keep us updated!


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

WOW I just checked out the Patio Door Pics, I would demand he do whatever needs to be done to remove every f'n spec of caulking that is all over your brick work. Stuff like this makes me sick, its such a disgrace. The sad part is I see homeowners all the time that accept this sorta thing as a standard install, and never bother to do a thing about it.


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## BoydS (Dec 7, 2006)

I would have thought that Therma Tru assembled their own prehung unit doors. If I understand you correctly, they do not. I will contact Therma Tru at their corporate HQ tomorrow to find a rep in this area. Thanks for that advice.

Actually the patio door glass wasn't busted. We had two 3050 windows (side by side) demoed and the new patio door installed. It was the broken glass from these windows.


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## buildenterprise (Dec 4, 2007)

Several of our ThermaTru pre-hung doors have been pretty badly assembled, such as sloppy hinge mortises, lockset holes that don't line up with the door, horrible margins around the door, etc. Patrick are you telling us that ThermaTru doesn't actually assemble their own pre-hung units, but sends them to a third-party millwork company? That's interesting, and it makes sense since I thought ThermaTru was a quality outfit too. I guess their rep is at the mercy of the hourly dope-smoker employee at the millwork shop.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

BoydS said:


> I would have thought that Therma Tru assembled their own prehung unit doors. If I understand you correctly, they do not. I will contact Therma Tru at their corporate HQ tomorrow to find a rep in this area. Thanks for that advice.


I doubt that they buy the doors direct from ThermaTru, More than likely your contractor gets them from a lumberyard or wholesaler, you want a rep from whoever the contractor buys from so they can see what kinda work he does


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

buildenterprise said:


> Patrick are you telling us that ThermaTru doesn't actually assemble their own pre-hung units, but sends them to a third-party millwork company?


Yes, Every Therma-Tru door that you see in home depot, and most lumber yards on the east coast comes from BROSCO (Brockway-Smith Co) www.brosco.com Other dealers, like Harvey Industries, whom we buy our doors from, assemble them themselves. There are also some high end lumber yards with their own door shops, Those are the ones that tend to have higher quality. Most of the large operations, are all computer controlled, Supposedly, (what my sales rep says) The process is so automated, no human actually works on the door, its all done by automated machines. (he was unable to explain how we received a door with the lock holes bored at different heights on the slab from the frame, they gave us a new door though)


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## buildenterprise (Dec 4, 2007)

We get our ThermaTru doors from a lumberyard that has their own millwork shop. I am curious as to whether or not they assemble the units. I will call them tomorrow to find out. BTW, I think your sales rep smokes crack-the build quality of our pre-hung units leaves ALOT to be desired.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

buildenterprise said:


> I think your sales rep smokes crack-the build quality of our pre-hung units leaves ALOT to be desired.


I don't think its the crack, I think hes just naturally flaky. I have been generally satisfied with Therma-Trus from Harvey, The REALLY NICE thing about them is they offer painting service. $150 they will paint the door in the shop in a spray booth, 10 standard colors, or any color you can come up with for an added fee. They guarantee the finish for 10 years The door then comes all wrapped up in foam, OR they will send you the frame, with a dummy slab, and when you are all done with construction, they send out the painted slab all wrapped up to be swapped with the dummy slab.


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## buildenterprise (Dec 4, 2007)

Patrick said:


> I don't think its the crack, I think hes just naturally flaky. I have been generally satisfied with Therma-Trus from Harvey, The REALLY NICE thing about them is they offer painting service. $150 they will paint the door in the shop in a spray booth, 10 standard colors, or any color you can come up with for an added fee. They guarantee the finish for 10 years The door then comes all wrapped up in foam, OR they will send you the frame, with a dummy slab, and when you are all done with construction, they send out the painted slab all wrapped up to be swapped with the dummy slab.


The pre-painting option is a really nice extra. I like the fiberglass ThermaTru doors in general. We installed a double outswing 8' high French door last month-that was a bear to get in but it sure looks sweet. It came pre-finished in khaki.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Any particluar reason they have wood below the sills as opposed to concrete formed and poured? When I worked in tract we always had to go back after the brick was finished and form up and pour the sills..much better look than that crap.


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## BoydS (Dec 7, 2006)

> Originally posted by *Patrick*
> _I doubt that they buy the doors direct from ThermaTru, More than likely your contractor gets them from a lumberyard or wholesaler, you want a rep from whoever the contractor buys from so they can see what kinda work he does_


I meant to call ThremaTru HQ today and ask about reps in this area, but didn't. Good point on asking the contractor, I'll do that and see what they say.

I like that pre-painting options, but it was not offered to me. Sure wish it was, because I would have jumped on it. I did ask, but this company said that option is not available. The doors however did come with a kit of the color we specified.



> Originally posted by *Chris Johnson*
> _Any particluar reason they have wood below the sills as opposed to concrete formed and poured? When I worked in tract we always had to go back after the brick was finished and form up and pour the sills..much better look than that crap_.


Chris, I'm glad you brought that up, because that is another one of the issues we have with the installation. It was specifically told to us by the project manager that concrete would be poured at the sills. Just another problem to be resolved.

I did get a call from the company today and the lady that resolved the electrical problem was wanting to know more about the issues we still had with the door installations. I went in detail about the problems we have with each door. When I got to describing the issues related to the patio door and mentioned the brick work, she stated that a brick mason will most likely be needed to finish that work. I told her thank you. She was very understanding and said in the end you'll be pleased.

I really appreciate the feedback, thank you.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

BoydS said:


> I like that pre-painting options, but it was not offered to me. Sure wish it was, because I would have jumped on it. I did ask, but this company said that option is not available. The doors however did come with a kit of the color we specified.


You are confusing two things, The doors you have a stainable doors, that came with a therma-tru stain kit. NO ONE offers the doors prestained any more. Therma-Tru used to offer them prestained for a huge $$ upcharge. They no longer do so you have to do the staining yourself with the kit they provide. Painting is another thing, This is offered NOT by therma-tru but by the companies that assemble the doors. Not very many companies offer this service. Harvey is one of the only ones I know that does.

It sounds like the company is going to take care of you. Its sad to say, but sometimes these large companies that sub out 100% will take on not so good subs and never really catch on to their quality of work until someone actually takes the time to complain. Seriously some people would have accepted this job!! Thats why I always inspect EVERY job that I sub out, even if its a sub I have known for a very long time.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Patrick said:


> For the Record Therma Tru doors are VERY HIGH QUALITY doors. The problem lies with whoever assembles the door. Therma Tru sells the door frames and the slabs to a distributor who then assembles them and sells them to the contractor.


I don't think Therma-Tru is any better or worse than other door companies. Here in NJ, REEB is the millwork co that assembles the doors. Wether it is HD, Lowes, or local yard, REEB supplies them all. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you get a bad one. 
A few years ago I went to a newer development. The house was 4 years old and the bottom of the jamb was rotted out. This was a Therma-Tru door. I told the HO to contact Therma-Tru about their 10 year warranty. Therma-Tru told them the warranty was only on the door slab itself and not the entire unit.
Personally I hate Therma-Tru because their sizing is off. 99% of the prehung doors measure out 81 1/2" frame height and Therma-Tru measures 82 1/8". Their door almost never fits the opening so the customer has to pay $100 cut charge.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> A few years ago I went to a newer development. The house was 4 years old and the bottom of the jamb was rotted out. This was a Therma-Tru door.


I dunno about then, but today, they have composite sills, and have "frame defense" jambs, which protect the lower 6" of the jambs


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## hiteams (Nov 23, 2007)

My take is that this was a bargain hunting job. Homeowner was looking for a low price and got what he paid for.

Not saying this is wrong to do, but low price usually equals low quality.


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## Dustball (Jul 7, 2006)

hiteams said:


> My take is that this was a bargain hunting job. Homeowner was looking for a low price and got what he paid for.
> 
> Not saying this is wrong to do, but low price usually equals low quality.


Apparently you didn't read the posts.


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## hiteams (Nov 23, 2007)

Dustball,

I may have missed the post where it mentioned how much he spent for labor to install 1 exterior door.

What was it? Was it $100 labor .... $200 labor ... $500 labor ... $1000 labor? If it was $100, then it's not a bad job for the price.


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## BoydS (Dec 7, 2006)

The VP of the company came out to do his own inspection this past Saturday. As we went though the "walk thru" I brought up the issues I had wih each door. At first he defended the company and the installer, but as he could visually see there were many problems. He was very reluctant to admit to anything wrong with the installations. Then I ask .. "Would you accept this as a professional installation if were installed in your home..?" He balked at that and did admit there would need to some changes. He basically agreed to correct the problems.

Fast forward to today. A new crew came today to rework the front and carport door exterior trim. I will be posting some new pics of their work tomorrow. I will say that I am satisfied with the rework that was done on the carport door. There are still a few issues with the front door, although minor.

The patio door exterior trim and brick work was not addressed today, but will be once the brick mason arrives. The company has agreed to redo the brick and trim it out in a professional manner. It was explained to me that the finished job will be very professional and eye appealing.



> Originally posted by *hiteams*
> _I may have missed the post where it mentioned how much he spent for labor to install 1 exterior door._
> 
> _What was it? Was it $100 labor .... $200 labor ... $500 labor ... $1000 labor? If it was $100, then it's not a bad job for the price.What was it?_


The amount of money that was charged for installation was never mentioned. However, I did state that I paid alot of money for this project. As for the labor cost I feel that it would be inappropate to disclose that cost. But I will say that I did pay top dollar for installation and would expect a quality work for that amount of bucks. There was no "bargain hunting", because I was willing to pay major bucks with a company that would offer me a lifetime warranty instead of a fly by night outfit. I demand quality work and if it takes that company 2, 3 or 4 times to do the job correctly then thats their problem.

Happy holidays and thanks again for the feedback.


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

Thanks for the update!

Please post some updated pics when you can!


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## coastalcc (Dec 30, 2007)

Am I taking crazy pills or is that exterior case Plywood???


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## BoydS (Dec 7, 2006)

I've uploaded a few more pics. I realize that I need to do a better job of labeling my pics and will do so soon. These recent pics are of the carport door and the patio door. Please note that when viewing these pics there has been no painting, that's on my nickle.

I am satisfied with the final carport door installation. IMO the last guy that was here did a darn good job of correcting the mistakes of the previous installer. He spent quite a bit of time to make it look appealing. Basically, all the trim that was previously installed was removed and new trim (brick molding) was installed. 

The patio door trim is still not complete, but at least the brick masons arrived and reworked that area. The brick mason stated that it was a good thing I kept some of the old brick, as it would be almost impossible to match it if I had not kept some. I thought the job they did was pretty darn good. We now await the installer to come back out and redo the trim. All of the PT wood trim will be removed and replaced with brick molding. This won't happen until sometime this coming week. 

It is supprising that it takes so many efforts from this company to correct things. One of the masons stated that the company has gotten so large that their quality control has gone down hill. He also stated that most folks would just accept the first installation and not bother with getting it corrected. This company adverstises a quality job, but that will only happen if you make enough noise and complain. I feel that this company has ripped folks off in the past and once my job is done, I will have to think very hard about giving them as recommending them for anyone in the future. 

More to come.....


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## Ranger1 (Feb 15, 2008)

*Hack Job*

AHHHHH.....I love to see this!! It all boils down to quality and PRIDE IN YOUR WORK!!!! when I complete a door install, or whatever, i HAVE THE HOMEOWNER LOOK EVERYTHING OVER BEFORE I GET TOTAL PAYMENT. I ask, "are you satisfied with the quality of work I have done here?" I actually had a lady call me last week to complain that her door knob came loose. i installed the door months ago, it was only a mile away, so i went and tightened it for her. I asked, "is everything else o.k.", she said "yes". As I was taught in tech school and college, "IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, WHEN WILL YOU FIND TIME TO DO IT RIGHT THE SECOND TIME!" THIS IS VERY TRUE FELLAS.... Sorry, just my 2 cents, sorry about the crappy install. If you already paid, good luck gettin' them to come back man!:no:


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## sneakersmagee (Mar 8, 2008)

The fact that you did not disclose the price of installation tells me that you probably didn't pay as much as you problably should have. Alot of home owners I deal with think that a few hundred dollars for a door installation is highway robbery. Not knowing you but just from looking at your post, where you submitted hundreds of pictures to try and prove your point tells me that you are one of those who think that everything is over priced and you ultimately got what you paid for.


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

Why wasn't the exterior trim covered with aluminum capping? It looks like someone had fun with the caulking gun. How do the doors operate? In one of the pictures of the front door the reveal looks wider by the latch. Do they close tightly against the weather striping? Do you see and daylight coming through on the inside of the door, particularly around the schlego (sp)? pad

The carport door is off centered in the opening. Did they originally just double stack 2 pieces of brick moulding on top of eachother?


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

In the picture below did they forget to remove that 3/8 plywood underneath the threshold It would explain why the brickmould is up in the air. Take a look in the right hand corner underneath the threshold.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

That pad under the trheshold may have been needed to lift the door. I run into this problem all the time when people add layer upon layer to their floor and the next thing you know the door is dragging on the flooring. If you're lucky you can lift the door for clearance, if not then the customer pays for cut charges on height for the entry door and storm door.


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

:thumbdown is the only thing that comes to mind.




lawndart said:


> In the picture below did they forget to remove that 3/8 plywood underneath the threshold It would explain why the brickmould is up in the air. Take a look in the right hand corner underneath the threshold.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Unbelievable!


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

That's a pretty rough looking install there. Strike plates mortise is terrible. Casing miters are bad. Then they slap caulking all over everything to hide their mistakes. Used to call putty "carpenter in a can." Looks like they need to invest in a blade that is actually sharp. They must have hired a beaver to make the cuts.


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## 98mustangguy (Sep 6, 2007)

Not to bash any nationality but did they appear to be mexican?


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

when i caulk like that , i use clear


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

98mustangguy said:


> Not to bash any nationality but did they appear to be mexican?


Why, do we Americans and Canadians have an on exclusive crappy work? I thought NAFTA settled all that. 

After all, every package you pick up these days has instructions in three languages so they can completely ignored by any North American.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

BKFranks said:


> Used to call putty "carpenter in a can." .


And here's another one "Caulk and putty, carpenter's buddy"


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## go dart (Dec 6, 2005)

as far as the machineing of the door thats usually done at a local mill shop. ours has never sent us anything looking like that. bad bad deal all around.


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## fredIII (Jul 24, 2006)

that was pretty bad, i also noticed that the baseboards were stained, but the door casings were painted ?


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## TRC (Oct 19, 2004)

I definitely agree....horrible install. At least at lowe's someone would have come and inspected your complaints immediately and would have sent a new installer who could do a lot better. These days in my area most of the lowe's guys are very good and have a lot of experience. They weeded out the bad ones finally. 

Also, I too have had a lot of quality issues with therma-tru and other brands. I use Harvey now for therma-tru (they're relatively new in nj) and have had much better results. Seen hinges on backwards and upside down from Reeb!


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Shoddy work is all I can say-and I would hate to pay for it ! They are not installed right. The brickmold should fastened back on to the jambs,as the they don't look right open ended, just one of whats wrong here...........I would want it to be re-done. 
GUESS I GOTTA LOOK AT DATES ON THESE POSTS-------DUH ???


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

DEC 2007 & yes its bad


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