# Nail gun vs. Hammer.



## FramingPro

i still hammer...well theres a reason for that. But i have developed good nailing rythms when i sheath floors and roofs i use 8d nails and 1 hit for each and just feed out. Walls i can't smash so i hold back


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## Tech Dawg

Holy crap Loneframer! My brother is a cop and u got more guns than him. Lol
Joe, I'm not a framer... just being the nuetral guy in this thread...
My compresser broke the other week and I had to hang crown the oldskool way but my customers liked that... if it breaks again ill just borrow one of loneframers


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## deckman22

mikeswoods said:


> I just measured my thigh--that's 20"--I don't think arm wrestling is a sport for me--:whistling


Hand banging will built up the same muscles used for arm wrestling. I came to Texas a skinny 145lb young man, but I could whoop my boss who went 210lbs. Pissed him off so bad he went to the gym & worked out for a month then came back for seconds. Told him he wouldn't last 10 seconds & he did not, never asked to arm wrestle again. :laughing:


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## mikeswoods

FramingPro said:


> i still hammer...well theres a reason for that. But i have developed good nailing rythms when i sheath floors and roofs i use 8d nails and 1 hit for each and just feed out. Walls i can't smash so i hold back



The crew I worked on in the early days used to have nailing contests--

Sink a 16d in the fewest strokes (no free hit to start it)

One guy consistently sunk 5 nails in 5 swings --that's nuts!:w00t:


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## carpentershane

FramingPro said:


> i still hammer...well theres a reason for that. But i have developed good nailing rythms when i sheath floors and roofs i use 8d nails and 1 hit for each and just feed out. Walls i can't smash so i hold back


You are 15 that is the reason for still hammering:laughing: Save your money and buy a gun and compressor


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## Warren

mikeswoods said:


> The crew I worked on in the early days used to have nailing contests--
> 
> Sink a 16d in the fewest strokes (no free hit to start it)
> 
> One guy consistently sunk 5 nails in 5 swings --that's nuts!:w00t:


Yeah, and in the old days we also used to have contests to see how may studs, joists, sheets of ply you could carry too. Also not the brightest idea. On the other hand, bragging rights gotta be worth something right?


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## loneframer

Tech Dawg said:


> Holy crap Loneframer! My brother is a cop and u got more guns than him. Lol
> Joe, I'm not a framer... just being the nuetral guy in this thread...
> My compresser broke the other week and I had to hang crown the oldskool way but my customers liked that... if it breaks again ill just borrow one of loneframers


 Crown in a customers home?

I recommend the Paslode Impulse, angled 16 gauge. I only have 1 of those, but I have 2 16 straight backups, as well as 2 18 gauge, that I like for stain grade trim.

As for the combustion odor, I purposely ask my customers if it's a nuisance. Most of them reply "What odor?"

Not dragging hoses through a furnished home increases productivity, while reducing liability. Win/win for the Impulse.:thumbsup:


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## FramingPro

mikeswoods said:


> The crew I worked on in the early days used to have nailing contests--
> 
> Sink a 16d in the fewest strokes (no free hit to start it)
> 
> One guy consistently sunk 5 nails in 5 swings --that's nuts!:w00t:


wait so he held it and then full power swing and moved his fingers at the right time or they were set and


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## Gus Dering

Quoted from an earlier post by Loneframer;

*When I got to run my first framing crew, I had 
1. wormdrive
2. extension cord
3.drill
4. reciprocating saw
5. level
6. framing square
7.toolbelt with basic hand tools

Framed a virtual butt-load of houses with nothing more 
* 



loneframer said:


> If all my guns are jammed and broke, or my compressors are not running, I will use my hammer. The possibility of all those planets aligning in unison is unlikely, at best.:thumbsup:


Did some tools fall off one of those trucks that you Jersey boys are always talking about?:laughing:


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## Tech Dawg

Ahhh, Gus, Jersey huh... I get it 
Wonder what happened to that stuff but when we become celebrities and do some impulse shopping, we seem to forget where we came from lol


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## loneframer

Gus Dering said:


> Quoted from an earlier post by Loneframer;
> 
> *When I got to run my first framing crew, I had *
> *1. wormdrive*
> *2. extension cord*
> *3.drill*
> *4. reciprocating saw*
> *5. level*
> *6. framing square*
> *7.toolbelt with basic hand tools*
> 
> *Framed a virtual butt-load of houses with nothing more *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did some tools fall off one of those trucks that you Jersey boys are always talking about?:laughing:


 In my first year of framing, I earned the title of "The Mindless Backnailing Machine".

I was hand nailing 3K sq. ft. of sub-floor down with HD 8s on every building we framed, using a 28 Estwing.

After several years of framing with 2 guys who were very competative, I earned due respect.

Then we got a couple guns and a compressor.

We were some pretty bad azz dudes with framing hammers, but the guns put us over the top.

I won't go back to handnailing for my meals, but I'm up for some friendly competition of hand driving some 8s.:shifty:


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## FramingPro

loneframer said:


> In my first year of framing, I earned the title of "The Mindless Backnailing Machine".
> 
> I was hand nailing 3K sq. ft. of sub-floor down with HD 8s on every building we framed, using a 28 Estwing.
> 
> After several years of framing with 2 guys who were very competative, I earned due respect.
> 
> Then we got a couple guns and a compressor.
> 
> We were some pretty bad azz dudes with framing hammers, but the guns put us over the top.
> 
> I won't go back to handnailing for my meals, but I'm up for some friendly competition of hand driving some 8s.:shifty:


we should make videos and compare


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## WarnerConstInc.

I don't like hammers, my fingers always get in the way.


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## loneframer

FramingPro said:


> we should make videos and compare


 You first, Homie.:shifty:


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## Tech Dawg

Any of u guys ever shoot yourself or that annoying helper on the job? If Loneframer's from Jersey, he mighta shot a few people  JK


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## FramingPro

loneframer said:


> You first, Homie.:shifty:


you guys have sinkers, dammitt


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## loneframer

FramingPro said:


> you guys have sinkers, dammitt


 I have about 1/2 a bucket of 8D HD commons. I think I'll go warm up some.:whistling


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## FramingPro

loneframer said:


> I have about 1/2 a bucket of 8D HD commons. I think I'll go warm up some.:whistling


make your video first so you get some glory before i smoke you:thumbsup:


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## ohiohomedoctor

This site is consumed by achieved dinosaurs. The only thing we hand drive are trusses. First hand drive into top plate, then toe nail into truss. Then grab your gun or be left behind. Good luck keeping up!


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## katoman

Well, sad to say, I have a wood siding job booked for the spring. 3500 lf. it all needs to be hand nailed with the plastic protectors on your hammer.

Not really looking forward to the hammering part, but love the work.


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## Tech Dawg

This website is the best! Typically, the original poster has a simple question or statement and then it turns into a massive train-derailment


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## mikeswoods

FramingPro said:


> wait so he held it and then full power swing and moved his fingers at the right time or they were set and



That is right---no pre set tap--full swig with a waffle head---Kind of nuts


We were young and frisky in those days--the guy that was the constant winner was popular with the ladies--often came to work in the same clothes from the night before--
Happy but hurting!!!

We were young and stupid then---Mike---


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## FramingPro

mikeswoods said:


> That is right---full swig with a waffle head---Kind of nuts
> 
> 
> We were young and frisky in those days--the guy that was the constant winner was popular with the ladies--often came to work in the same clothes from the night before--
> Happy but hurting!!!
> 
> We were young and stupid then---Mike---


:blink:


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## loneframer

Tech Dawg said:


> Any of u guys ever shoot yourself or that annoying helper on the job? If Loneframer's from Jersey, he mighta shot a few people  JK


 Haha:laughing:

I've only shot myself with trim nails, nothing serious though.

I know guys who have shot themselves...lots of guys.

One story that I know to be true and know both guys involved, happened about 10 years ago.

Two guys who have worked together for years.

After a winter coastal storm, they were on a framing job. Charlie was on his way up the ladder and Chuck decides to steady the top, because it's icy on the deck.

Chuck has the gun in his hand, finger on the trigger. Charlie ascends to the top, hits the bump safety with the top of his head and takes a 3 1/4 framing nail right on the crown.

Chuck was beside himself, trying to get Charlie to sit down. Charlie had no idea there was a nail in his skull.

I saw the news story on the local network news. I had worked with both guys about 8 years previous to the accident.

Charlie was in a hospital bed, fully coherent, with no sign of brain damage. They showed an X-ray, clearly indicating that the nail was embedded all but 1/4". 

From what I recall, he stated that he had five children. That's a lucky dude, if you can call taking a nail to the head lucky.


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## katoman

Nick - don't try that. You need your fingers for the rest of your life.

Not sure how many Lone's got left.:laughing:


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## FramingPro

katoman said:


> Nick - don't try that. You need your fingers for the rest of your life.
> 
> Not sure how many Lone's got left.:laughing:


i never hit my fingers with a waffle face, with smooth its everyother hit


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## deckman22

mikeswoods said:


> That is right---no pre set tap--full swig with a waffle head---Kind of nuts
> 
> 
> We were young and frisky in those days--the guy that was the constant winner was popular with the ladies--often came to work in the same clothes from the night before--
> Happy but hurting!!!
> 
> We were young and stupid then---Mike---


I can still drive a 16d in one stroke thru a 2x4, not the way you might think tho, I had a little trick. It cost me a 6 pack to learn than trick, but won plenty more back later. 

If no one knows the trick I'll explain it later.

Oh yea, I'd use a 16oz. hammer.


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## FramingPro

deckman22 said:


> I can still drive a 16d in one stroke thru a 2x4, not the way you might think tho, I had a little trick. It cost me a 6 pack to learn than trick, but won plenty more back later.
> 
> If no one knows the trick I'll explain it later.


with a nail gun?


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## loneframer

FramingPro said:


> make your video first so you get some glory before i smoke you:thumbsup:


 *Smoke me?*

Granted, it's been about 10 years since I speed hammered anything.(Shut up Toms truble):laughing:

It's like riding a bike bro, I'll never forget how. It just might take me awhile before I can polish my tricks.:whistling

I need to get my hammer and safety glasses from the job before I try power nailing anything. I ain't tryin' to be blind.:laughing:


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## vos

please explain.


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## FramingPro

vos said:


> please explain.


yea please


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## loneframer

katoman said:


> Nick - don't try that. You need your fingers for the rest of your life.
> 
> Not sure how many Lone's got left.:laughing:


 I have all of them, just can't feel much with the ones on my right hand.:laughing: Got some nice waffle prints on my right thumb, below the nail. I've peeled that back more than once.:whistling


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## loneframer

deckman22 said:


> I can still drive a 16d in one stroke thru a 2x4, not the way you might think tho, I had a little trick. It cost me a 6 pack to learn than trick, but won plenty more back later.
> 
> If no one knows the trick I'll explain it later.
> 
> Oh yea, I'd use a 16oz. hammer.


 Poke the nail through a rag or a piece of cardboard and situate it so it's perpendicular to the side of the hammer head. Palm the head of the hammer, flat in your hand.Take your best swing. Seen that done a time or two.


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## ohiohomedoctor

Years ago I shot myself in the hand while nailing studs to the bottom plate laying on the third floor deck, the foreman slapped me in the back and had me cutting rafters on the ground the rest of the day. This being said, if we were hand nailing we would of still been on the first floor, and I would of been sent home since rafters wouldn't of been necessary yet. Hand nailing is crazy, kind of like cracking your model T. 
The day after shooting myself in the palm I picked up the gun and kept working/learning. Guns are the only way to go. 


Mike Holmes is an idiot. In theory,........ he is still an idiot. nobody screws an entire structure, shearing would create an inevitable disaster. Nails are king, when applied with a gun. I can frame an entire home before Mike Holmes gets his battery charged. 

I like the part about compressors and cameras, so true. That guy makes me boil.


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## TNTRenovate

Give me a gun any day!


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## Tech Dawg

Kato, did you ever cross paths with Mike Holmes?


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## Gough

I remember the first nail guns that I saw: it was in the early '60s in a pallet factory in N. Illinois. The nails were tube-fed from an overhead magazine of some sort, I can't remember the detail, but the nails came down in a clear plastic tube into the business end of the gun. What really impressed me was that it didn't matter if the nail was right-side up or not. The gun would even shoot it through oak if it was head-first.

I also remember that the early guns for construction had proprietary nails, and that was where the mfg. made their money. Some of the early companies, like SpotNails, IIRC, would give you the gun if you bought a pallet of nails. The widespread standardization of fasteners was certainly a boon to the construction trades.


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## Heritage

I like this guy's approach...and you're sure to get paid by the client :laughing:


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## katoman

Tech Dawg said:


> Kato, did you ever cross paths with Mike Holmes?


No, lucky for him. Most here know I'm not a fan.

Mike has done a lot of good showing the public the pitfalls of hireing hacks. For that I tip my hat to him.

My beef with Mike is that he goes on about hireing licensed tradesmen, when he himself is not. Here in Ontario and the rest of Canada we have a license for Carpenter. He never promoted that.

Without going into a lot of detail, Mike Holmes is technically supposed to have his license to swing his hammer. I find it demeaning to the trade of carpentry.

Strictly my opinion. If I ever meet him I will call him on it. I have on his web site, got reamed by the "I love Mike" members.


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## mk5065

I would like to keep my elbows working!!


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## JumboJack

A "tighter cleaner frame"...WTH does that mean?:blink:


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## Tech Dawg

That's funny, I saw one episode where he was fixing a basement blotch, and it rightfully was but he went on and on about the bad plumbing and plumbing code... he fixed a pipe with a fernco then buried it in cement. It works but not exactly code,(here anyway). Ferncos are only supposed to be used when accessable and I think its somewhere in the ipc but whatever... he can do what he wants cuz Home Depot says so.


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## SAW.co

loneframer said:


> I have all of them, just can't feel much with the ones on my right hand.:laughing: Got some nice waffle prints on my right thumb, below the nail. I've peeled that back more than once.:whistling


Good one, I consider my left thumb to be a grave little solder. Its ben hit more times than I can count. Usually on a cold cold morning:thumbsup:


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## deckman22

loneframer said:


> Poke the nail through a rag or a piece of cardboard and situate it so it's perpendicular to the side of the hammer head. Palm the head of the hammer, flat in your hand.Take your best swing. Seen that done a time or two.


Nope. Not a nailgun either. 

A 16oz. hammer, a 16d nail & a 2x4.


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## mk5065

SAW.co said:


> I feel like I'm the last carpenter to believe the hammer makes a tighter cleaner frame than a gun. I use nail guns to hang shear & roof sheathing things like that but when it comes to framing its all about the hammer. Sure it will take a little longer that doesn't bother me. I admit one of my favorite tools is my SENCO finish pro I wont trim without it.
> Does anyone agree or am I the last of my kind:hammer:


I love to hand nail but I also have to make money. I wish I could do this for fun but making money changes that!:w00t:


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## Tom Struble

katoman said:


> Well, sad to say, I have a wood siding job booked for the spring. 3500 lf. it all needs to be hand nailed with the plastic protectors on your hammer.
> 
> Not really looking forward to the hammering part, but love the work.


 
why have to be hand nailed Katoman?


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## SAW.co

vos said:


> please explain.


Thats like hiring a guy who told you he is a carpenter but when he shows up late for his first day & says " ware do you keep the hammers & will I need my own tape measure?" Thats only happen to me once:blink:


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## katoman

deckman22 said:


> Nope. Not a nailgun either.
> 
> A 16oz. hammer, a 16d nail & a 2x4.


I got it, nailing into the endgrain. :clap:


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## katoman

tomstruble said:


> why have to be hand nailed Katoman?


Pre painted nails to match the siding. You can all laugh I'm sure, but I've allowed 4 weeks, 2 carpenters to install. 

Maybe not enough time. :shutup:


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## Brutus

woodworkbykirk is in the blue hard hat.... just sayin'.


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## FramingPro

deckman22 said:


> Nope. Not a nailgun either.
> 
> A 16oz. hammer, a 16d nail & a 2x4.


pre drill or gas wax them melt a bar of wax in gas and pour it on a keg of nails


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## Heritage

FramingPro said:


> pre drill or gas wax them melt a bar of wax in gas and pour it on a keg of nails


 
:blink:

Eaaaaaaassy Macgyver!

You better hope Al Qaida doesn't monitor this forum.


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## katoman

That's better :devil:


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## Tom Struble

maze sells painted 15deg ringshanks...just sayin i understand where your coming from:thumbup:


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## katoman

Tom, who is maze? Can you provide a link?


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## woodworkbykirk

jebus, brutus beat me to posting that pic... that was taken in 2005 when holmes was in halifax to shoot a bunch of tv adds promoting apprenticeship in 2008 i wrote and passed the ip exam as for holmes, he isnt certified i can prove it, in 2007 he was supposed to be in my 3rd year apprenticeship class and was a no show.

as for hand nailing. ill do it when i absolutely have to, when either we only have 2 hoses run and i cant plug my gun in or if its just not convienent to run a line. the last time i did any serious nailing was on a 9500 sq ft custom when the compressor burnt out sheathing the floor. memory serves correct i was filling both sides of my pouch every 30 minutes or so and it wore me out


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## Tom Struble

http://www.mazenails.com/catalog/coilated15.php

i used the painted on a on a prestained vertical fibercement panel

really all they do is spray paint them the color you want,now i would just paint them myself


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## Joe Carola

katoman said:


> Well, sad to say, I have a wood siding job booked for the spring. 3500 lf. it all needs to be hand nailed with the plastic protectors on your hammer.
> 
> Not really looking forward to the hammering part, but love the work.


I had to do the same thing about 10 years ago. Those plastic protectors lasted 5 minutes because the nail head rips them apart. Have you used them before, if so, and they worked maybe they are different compared to 10 years ago.


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## Tom Struble

look at Kirky

now thats a man:tongue_smilie:


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## woodworkbykirk

oh god..... calm down there tom:ban:


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## katoman

Joe Carola said:


> I had to do the same thing about 10 years ago. Those plastic protectors lasted 5 minutes because the nail head rips them apart. Have you used them before, if so, and they worked maybe they are different compared to 10 years ago.


I know, they last longer than 5 minutes, but they do wear out. I've also got touch up paint in case I run out of caps and resort to bare hammer.

Always thinkin' ( just add another two days to the job for nail head touch ups ):laughing:


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## katoman

tomstruble said:


> look at Kirky
> 
> now thats a man:tongue_smilie:


I don't think that sounds the way you intended. :whistling


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## deckman22

katoman said:


> I got it, nailing into the endgrain. :clap:


Must not be any texas framers on here tonight, surely one of them would know the trick. 

Here's how you do it. 

Take your 16oz. hammer & lay it flat on a sawhorse, now take a 16 penny nail putting it with the head on the side of the hammer head so the point is sticking up. Pick up a 5' or so 2x4, slam it down on the nail. Drives it flush in one wack. 

Now that you won a 6 pack off your buddy you bet him double or nothing he can't do it if you pick out the 2x4. No need for a piece of oak, just give him a 6" block. :laughing:


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## Tom Struble

well it sounds like an awful lot of work for a sixer:whistling


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## jmiller

you're comparing a joke /trick worthy of posting here to a six pack of beer. Lowballer!


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## Holman

Heritage said:


> I screw everything :shifty:


I've been known to screw for hours:jester:


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## jmiller

I should NOT have wandered in here, 'cept for the fact that I mostly hand nail when i do shingle. I grok the rhythm.


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## Tom Struble

Holman said:


> I've been known to screw for hours:jester:


 
:huh::glare:that's impossible:no::001_unsure::shutup:


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## loneframer

tomstruble said:


> :huh::glare:that's impossible:no::001_unsure::shutup:


 Is not.:no:


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## Tom Struble

well what are we talking about? over a couple of months?yea i guess i could see that during baseball season:thumbsup:


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## loneframer

tomstruble said:


> well what are we talking about? over a couple of months?yea i guess i could see that during baseball season:thumbsup:


 Paxil.


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## SAW.co

This thread has gotten a little off topic but man is this ever good entertainment & to think i've wasted all that time on Face Book...This is even better than hang'n out at the bar on a rainy day...:drink::drink::drink:


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## deckman22

jmiller said:


> you're comparing a joke /trick worthy of posting here to a six pack of beer. Lowballer!


Back when I was framing top hands made 10 bucks an hour, not many would spring for case bet, ha.

If you think that's lowballing, I saw a framer shoot a soffit staple into his leg over a case of beer bet. Shot himself, pulled it out with some pliers & said go get the beer.


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## Dirtywhiteboy

Heritage said:


> I screw everything :shifty:


 
I’m a little more discriminating on what I screw:whistling


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## TimNJ

SAW.co said:


> I admit on large jobs the gun is rolled out every day & ready for apps like that.
> 
> by the way I use a Vaughan 19oz. smooth face always have. I have a 20" forearm & I never lose arm wrestling
> Thats 20" around, not long not that I would brag or anything:tank:


20" Forearm?? That I would have to see. I'm 6' 180lbs and after reading that I measured my thigh at the widest part and my thigh is 20". That was measured with a cloth tapemeasure too not my steel Stanley.


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## TimNJ

Back on subject, I prefer hammer, but only on trim work. When I am trimming I like to be able to "feel" that the nail went into something and didn't deflect off the edge of a stud.
As for framing, gun. Sheathing...definitely gun!!


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## stp57

A couple of years ago, I converted my dad's two car garage into a three car garage. I used all deck screws to frame it, mainly because of my inexperience. If I made a mistake then I could easily disassemble something.
The roofer's loved it when they tied in the roof because they could loosen the rafters & shim them to get the best transition. They made me look like a pro, so I can't complain.:thumbsup:
Because I framed into an existing structure, I probably reduced the risk regarding the shear factor?
Steve


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## Michaeljp86

Me and my dad built a 12x24 addition on a rental house. We tore part of the hip roof off to make it a gabled end. It was alot of work and we only hand nailed it. I wish we had a nailgun then, I bet it would have saved atleast one day, probably more.


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## Joe Carola

Michaeljp86 said:


> Me and my dad built a 12x24 addition on a rental house. We tore part of the hip roof off to make it a gabled end. It was alot of work and we only hand nailed it. I wish we had a nailgun then, I bet it would have saved atleast one day, probably more.


Think of comparing hand nailing to a gun and comparing a hand saw to a circular saw. Bottom line is that it's not even worth a conversation hand nailing vs gun nailing because people who hand nail like to by choice. A hand nailed house compared to a gun nailed house will end with the same quality results just like hand nailing trim compared to gun nailing trim.......same quality results.


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## Michaeljp86

Joe Carola said:


> Think of comparing hand nailing to a gun and comparing a hand saw to a circular saw. Bottom line is that it's not even worth a conversation hand nailing vs gun nailing because people who hand nail like to by choice. A hand nailed house compared to a gun nailed house will end with the same quality results just like hand nailing trim compared to gun nailing trim.......same quality results.


I wouldnt even want to think about a hand saw.:no:


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