# RE Agent asking me for my sub's contact info



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I've been lurking for a while and just joined the forum. Hello all.

I'm a handyman that gets a lot of business from a couple real estate agents. They trust my opinion, ability to solve problems, etc. of many types and call me for my trusted advice.

Today I got an email from her requesting the contact info of my electrician. Although he's not "mine", I use him a lot for projects (even at times for hers) and he's hard enough to get on my schedule. Her asking me is a red flag since recently the same agent started using my flooring guy directly, when I brought him in on one of my projects with her.

Earlier in the year, another agent started using my landscaper so that now's he's so busy I can hardly get him. Know what I mean? It's like I'm the pre-qualifier for them, and they seem to think it's ok. It takes so long to develop relationships you can depend on, and it doesn't feel right to jeopardize it by getting them on someone else's resource list. 

How would you respond to these texts asking for the contact info? She's good, otherwise, and I don't want to burn a bridge, but I think we need some clarity on how we do things.

Thanks much.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Easy, tell them no.

If they need to get a hold of them they can contact you. Ask your guy to tell her the same. If they want to deal with her directly there is nothing you can do about it.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Well...if you are a GC and your subs start going behind your back, then you should find someone else who isn't a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey ****.

As a handyman...dunno what the protocol is.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

How do you _really _feel about it? Don't keep it all bottled up. :laughing:


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

Ask them for their customer list....


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

It's proprietary information, and they have no real reason to ask for it. Nor do you have any obligation to provide it.


That, or just mess with 'em.... send 'em to Fly-By-Night Electric, or Cut-Corners Landscaping.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Or email 'em this helpful link: http://www.craigslist.org/


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Or, "I'd love to help you out. My referral fees start at $500......."


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

*tell them no*

Correct that I'm not a GC. Yet I have managed and coordinated subs in a less formal way on some larger jobs to get a house ready for sale, etc.

Also, it's clear to these agents that I am resourceful and bend over backwards to "get things done".

I think the agents want to have it both ways, and that's what I need to address in some non-confrontational way. I am leaning toward the direct approach, i.e. "My relationship with my electrician and other pros is that we work together on projects....it's not one where we refer to each other....and this is how I make things happen for my regular clients."

Also, I just got off the phone with my electrician. We're 100% on the same page with this. He didn't like it, either.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

He probably doesn't want to deal with a PITA RE


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> Correct that I'm not a GC. Yet I have managed and coordinated subs in a less formal way on some larger jobs to get a house ready for sale, etc.
> 
> Also, it's clear to these agents that I am resourceful and bend over backwards to "get things done".
> 
> ...



Thats a weird way to look at things....

If anyone on the street asks me for my electrician or plumber, hvac, ect... I will give it to them. Am I going to mark up a straight HVAC change out? :laughing: :no:

If some one calls about cabinet work or painting (I have inhouse carpenters and painters) I will go look at the project if I am interested. If not, I refer my cabinet guy and painting sub we use when we cant get to something. 

Why not? I want them to succeed and make money, and they always refer projects hat require a builder/GC. Thats why a few of my subs are my subs, they refer projects to me and I to them. 

I try and actively FIND work for my subs, not detain them.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

If somebody I do business with asks me face-to-face for the contact info to a trade I use - they got it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

To be VERY clear, I am not ok with a client going around me to use one of my subs. The sub would get fired, and the client too, after project completion. More a matter of mutual respect than financial. 

Only been an issue once. Usually the client calls one the subs for a small deal I wouldnt be interested in anyway, sub calls and asks if I am interested. Most of the time Im not. 

We leave our EMP subs info in the project folder with warrantys and product information at project completion. 

Do you expect a commission from the sub, or what?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I'd say, "Yeah, you can have it, but I have nothing to do with whatever happens between you and him." and that's one less person that I have to manage from here on out.

I understand the dilemma here. What often happens is that when the realtor deals with your guy directly, and things go awry, then they want to hold YOU accountable for their actions. They say, "Mark! I've been waiting all morning for the electrician! Can you get him on the phone and find out where he is?"

And as much as it may make me sound like a total jerk, I simply say, "sorry, I can't help you- It isn't my place to interfere with this particular situation. It would be different if you guys went through me but it wouldn't be fair to either of you to use my influence when you decided step outside of something that I established."


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I would say her asking for your second sub is not only disrespectful but out right rude. Its somewhat your fault because you supplied her the first one. 

You say your just a handyman but in reality sounds like your a gc so act like it. Just tell her you are happy to get her a proposal or set a meeting to look the work together.

Just think if something goes major wrong with her and your sub how is that going to affect your bottom line. Referring is a gamble which only makes sense when your being paid a vig. 

You spent time finding the right guys for the right jobs you are entitled to be compensated for your efforts..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I would say her asking for your second sub is not only disrespectful but out right rude. Its somewhat your fault because you supplied her the first one.
> 
> You say your just a handyman but in reality sounds like your a gc so act like it. Just tell her you are happy to get her a proposal or set a meeting to look the work together.
> 
> ...


:blink:
Thats crazy talk. 

Are you saying you'd expect a commission from your sub? 

As far as something going wrong, when you refer someone you arent responsible for that. If your subs are likely to f something up, why are they your subs?

I can see a vague point with some subs , but EMPs??? Are you seriously going to mark up straight electrical work, Matt?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Jaws said:


> As far as something going wrong, when you refer someone you arent responsible for that. If your subs are likely to f something up, why are they your subs?


If they ask you for a referral them maybe...(maybe)

But if they ask for your subs number to go around you so they don't have to involve you (and your upcharge) then no. Absolutely not. That is why you have the upcharge in the first place, in case something goes wrong and you have to deal with it.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> I've been lurking for a while and just joined the forum. Hello all.
> 
> I'm a handyman that gets a lot of business from a couple real estate agents. They trust my opinion, ability to solve problems, etc. of many types and call me for my trusted advice.
> 
> ...



I forgot to mention,_ excellent _paragraph spacing, my man. :clap:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Jaws said:


> ........... If your subs are likely to f something up, why are they your subs?..........



It's not that the sub may eff up... it's because the RE agent THINKS / BELIEVES the sub effed up.

Seriously... how many times have you done something 'by the book,' the way it's supposed to be and according to industry standards,........ and someone still fully thinks you're dead wrong?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Leo G said:


> If they ask you for a referral them maybe...(maybe)
> 
> But if they ask for your subs number to go around you so they don't have to involve you (and your upcharge) then no. Absolutely not. That is why you have the upcharge in the first place, in case something goes wrong and you have to deal with it.


I am not making myself clear. 

If i am doing a project and they ask to go around me :laughing::no: That is not happening. You would still be liable, at least in their minds, and you will still end up coordinating. 


If a client or someone I know asks for the name of a sub, to say add some recessed lighting change a toilet, Im more than happy to give them the number. If my plumber needs coordination for straight plumbing, he doesnt need to be my sub. If there is damage to drywall or tile, or they need a new vanity cabinet, guess who gets the work


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> :blink:
> Thats crazy talk.
> 
> Are you saying you'd expect a commission from your sub?
> ...


Easy big fella. 

Lets start here. Yes I mark up my subs. No I dont typically refer people because regardless of the legalities the brass tax is that your referral is a direct reflection of you. Example: If you refer a restraunt which has terrible food it makes you look as though you have poor taste.

Now there are exceptions of course but mostly it makes very little sense too me thats all. 

Furthermore Jesus himself could not avoid 100% of unforseen issues and ofcourse my subs are the best around..

Lastly, with regards to emps. I wrap some important bug out goodies in foil just in case.. :laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

480sparky said:


> Seriously... how many times have you done something 'by the book,' the way it's supposed to be and according to industry standards,........ and someone still fully thinks you're dead wrong?


Yeah, my parents were like that. Come home from cub scouts, trying to save lives, and all I got was _"blah,blah,blah,blah,blah, get me a beer..."_ :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Lets not get to far from the point at hand, this isnt jlc.. :laughing:

To be clear the op situation sounded too me like an attempt at the go around which is typical for the greesy realtor types. Go arounds dont fly with me...


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Kent Whitten said:


> Well...if you are a GC and your subs start going behind your back, then you should find someone else who isn't a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey ****.
> 
> As a handyman...dunno what the protocol is.


Don't hold back....say what you really think!

Wasn't that the Chevy Chase rant in Christmas Vacation?

Obviously you've met my ex wife.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Now if the client has a pita factor or their foreheads I have a list of subs ready and waiting.

My sub list is huge at this point from day in day out networking. I usually can find the right guy very quickly..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> It's not that the sub may eff up... it's because the RE agent THINKS / BELIEVES the sub effed up.
> 
> Seriously... how many times have you done something 'by the book,' the way it's supposed to be and according to industry standards,........ and someone still fully thinks you're dead wrong?


 It can happen. I trust my subs to do what they are qualified for. 

Other than someone complaining that the sub didnt show up on time, never been an issue. 

Some of our higher end clients ABSOLUTELY want us to "supervise" a tile roof repair or a HVAC change out. Usually because they dont live here and we have their keys and security codes.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Last time I referred someone to a customer it didn't go so well. Big personality conflicts. It got so bad that I had to become a mediator and ended up losing a client over it. If he would have worked through me, I could have kept it under control and everyone would have been happy.

I never give out my subs anymore.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

You guys know we're spiraling down into the whole sub/slavery thing, _yet again_, no?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

skcolo said:


> Last time I referred someone to a customer it didn't go so well. Big personality conflicts. It got so bad that I had to become a mediator and ended up losing a client over it. If he would have worked through me, I could have kept it under control and everyone would have been happy.
> 
> I never give out my subs anymore.


Yep. Heard that story over and over again..


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I didnt see that anywhere here Jay.. Nice emoticon though..


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Yep. Heard that story over and over again..


Some of these guys don't have the best "people skills" yet they are really good at what they do.

When you work with them for a long time, you know what to expect and do do they. It just doesn't always work out with the client. They hire you for your personality and your work. There are multiple reasons someone hires you. Why throw another personality into the mix.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Easy big fella.
> 
> Lets start here. Yes I mark up my subs. No I dont typically refer people because regardless of the legalities the brass tax is that your referral is a direct reflection of you. Example: If you refer a restraunt which has terrible food it makes you look as though you have poor taste.
> 
> ...


So if a past client called to have three recessed cans installed, you'd be interested in marking that up and over seeing it? I dont generally have time for that. Now if the client WANTS me to oversee it, sure. 

I get your point, but damn. If a contractor cant do his trade effectively.....


We mostly do remodels, so my subs are used to working with cleanliness and polish, and I dont think they would want to give a bad impression for me. Like I said, if there is something outside of their scope, Ill get a call. Hell, I got a $5,000 repair from an HVAC change out last year. More importantly, my HVAC sub has referred me to a lot of GOOD projects. 

My cabinet sub has gotten us some good jobs, too. I had thought about changing my service electrician at several points, because hes hard to schedule. But he gets us quite a bit of work. 


Not bagging on you, just a different way of looking at things.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

skcolo said:


> Some of these guys don't have the best "people skills" yet they are really good at what they do.
> 
> When you work with them for a long time, you know what to expect and do do they. It just doesn't always work out with the client. They hire you for your personality and your work. There are multiple reasons someone hires you. Why throw another personality into the mix.


My sentiment exactly. Now for good clients I have managed small all sub jobs at no cost before. Its better for me to handle it myself as a donation than risk something going wrong.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Thats a weird way to look at things....
> 
> If anyone on the street asks me for my electrician or plumber, hvac, ect... I will give it to them. Am I going to mark up a straight HVAC change out? :laughing: :no:
> 
> ...


I've referred a lot of work to other contractors 
and I have had a lot of work referred to me.

Every time someone turned on a customer to me, I'd
tell them I'd kick them back some bucks. Why not?
basically they acted as a salesperson for me.

I would not have a problem giving out someone elses
number for work, but if they didn't do the same for me 
at some point, I wouldn't do it for them anymore.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

skcolo said:


> Last time I referred someone to a customer it didn't go so well. Big personality conflicts. It got so bad that I had to become a mediator and ended up losing a client over it. If he would have worked through me, I could have kept it under control and everyone would have been happy.
> 
> I never give out my subs anymore.


I might sing a different tune if that happened.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I do most of my own electrical now. I pay myself what I used to pay our sub and place that income directly into my families vacation fund. I enjoy the electrical trade. I find time after hours when Im too busy during the day. 

One thing I have have to date been able to do very well is delegate in a manner where I am able to make time for myself to do what I feel is best at the time.. Some times that is work related sometimes not so much..

Is that far enough off topic for you guys? :laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> My sentiment exactly. Now for good clients I have managed small all sub jobs at no cost before. Its better for me to handle it myself as a donation than risk something going wrong.


I have done that as well. Depends on the client, sub and project.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I might sing a different tune if that happened.


My Dad used to tell me that the ability to learn from other peoples mistakes not just your own will set you apart from the general population that only truly learns by placing their hand on a hot iron..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I do most of my own electrical now. I pay myself what I used to pay our sub and place that income directly into my families vacation fund. I enjoy the electrical trade. I find time after hours when Im too busy during the day.
> 
> One thing I have have to date been able to do very well is delegate in a manner where I am able to make time for myself to do what I feel is best at the time.. Some times that is work related sometimes not so much..
> 
> Is that far enough off topic for you guys? :laughing:




We cant do electrical, plumbing or HVAC without a license here.....


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Jaws said:


> I might sing a different tune if that happened.


Yeah, I sure didn't expect that. I used to always help out people with sub referrals.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I have done that as well. Depends on the client, sub and project.


Exactly, and from what little information the op supplied us my advice stands. Realtors are a fickle bunch to begin with..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> My Dad used to tell me that the ability to learn from other peoples mistakes not just your own will set you apart from the general population that only truly learns by placing their hand on a hot iron..


My dad taught me to use good subs who I trust....

Never been an issue for him either....


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> We cant do electrical, plumbing or HVAC without a license here.....


Here it depends on the municipality. The guy who taught me much of what I know is a licensed electrician and a good family friend who helps me out from time to time..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Exactly, and from what little information the op supplied us my advice stands. Realtors are a fickle bunch to begin with..


:laughing: Im not a big fan of MOST realtors.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> My Dad used to tell me that the ability to learn from other peoples mistakes not just your own will set you apart from the general population that only truly learns by placing their hand on a hot iron..


My Dad used to tell me 'you're an accident 
waiting for a place to happen'.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Bunited2 said:


> My Dad used to tell me 'you're an accident
> waiting for a place to happen'.


Good thing you're in low voltage. :thumbup:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> My dad taught me to use good subs who I trust....
> 
> Never been an issue for him either....


That's a good lesson, and the decades he spent developing that list for you deserves to be rewarded in dollars from time to time.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Here it depends on the municipality. The guy who taught me much of what I know is a licensed electrician and a good family friend who helps me out from time to time..


I am not an electrician by any means, but my dad is good at electrical. Statewide, you cant even add a receptacle without a licence


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> That's a good lesson, and the decades he spent developing that list for you deserves to be rewarded in dollars from time to time.


:no: We changed almost all subs when I became a partner, some due to pricing, some to complacency, some to retirement. These are my contacts. Just the HVAC and cabinet guy are the same. 

We get our money from our trade, GCing. Good subs are as loyal to us as we to them.

Like I said , they refer us constantly


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I am not an electrician by any means, but my dad is good at electrical. Statewide, you cant even add a receptacle without a licence


Too close to California I suppose.. :laughing:

My wife is a huge Cowboys fan which is annoying as hell. Looks like we are flying out to a game next year, yeah...


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> :no: We changed almost all subs when I became a partner, some due to pricing, some to complacency, some to retirement. These are my contacts. Just the HVAC and cabinet guy are the same.
> 
> We get our money from our trade, GCing. Good subs are as loyal to us as we to them.


I have a core group too. We are very very good together. Thats what it takes. The right faces in the right places..

Ill bet cleaning house made you real popular at the friday football games for awhile..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Too close to California I suppose.. :laughing:
> 
> My wife is a huge Cowboys fan which is annoying as hell. Looks like we are flying out to a game next year, yeah...


Hopefully they have a new coach and QB by then...:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I have a core group too. We are very very good together. Thats what it takes. The right faces in the right places..
> 
> Ill bet cleaning house made you real popular at the friday football games for awhile..


Is what it is. Needed to be done. Electrician was the toughest one.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Did someone say Broncos?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I have a core group too. We are very very good together. Thats what it takes. The right faces in the right places..
> 
> Ill bet cleaning house made you real popular at the friday football games for awhile..


My old man started this company in 08, he was a PM for a builder for 8 years. I came on in 09, wasnt exactly a booming operation...

There was a certain unspoken conflict of interest between us and the builder he worked for as far as the subs. That was part of it.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

How are things in Texas, Jaws?

My old group wants to get together and do a 130 unit subdivision in Houston, by the medical center. They want me to go for a couple of years, but I am not convinced yet. The land is already tied up.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

skcolo said:


> How are things in Texas, Jaws?
> 
> My old group wants to get together and do a 130 unit subdivision in Houston, by the medical center. They want me to go for a couple of years, but I am not convinced yet. The land is already tied up.


I heard Houston is doing good. Here it seems to of slowed down, hopefully not for long. 

Sounds like a good project.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Now for the flip side of the OPs question.

Suppose I got a call from a RE agent, asking who I would recommend to install some replacement windows, or build a sunroom, or remodel a kitchen.

Should I just tell 'em I don't hand that information out? :whistling


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Now for the flip side of the OPs question.
> 
> Suppose I got a call from a RE agent, asking who I would recommend to install some replacement windows, or build a sunroom, or remodel a kitchen.
> 
> Should I just tell 'em I don't hand that information out? :whistling


That is my point.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Jaws said:


> I heard Houston is doing good. Here it seems to of slowed down, hopefully not for long.
> 
> Sounds like a good project.


We've done three of them together, about 400 units, so I know what to expect. I really like new construction, but it's been slim pickens around here for a few years. I was doing a lot of scrapes after the group split up, and that isn't coming back anytime soon, so this looks like it might be fun for a change.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Now I've given out the information and I haven't.
> 
> 
> If I get a call for let's say, a small gutter job, I refer them to my subs directly.
> ...


Well now, that's a perfectly reasonable approach.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

This is a great thread... I am learning lots


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

skcolo said:


> I don't just pass out numbers anymore.


Me either, I just put them on the walls at Home 
Depot, Lowes and Orchard.

'For an adequate time call fill in the blank 408-555-1212'


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

LNG24 said:


> ...... NEVER did that nor would one of my subs entertain the idea of going on a job without me. .......


So, you keep your all subs busy 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year?


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Kent Whitten said:


> Exactly. That's my ring tone too :laughing:


Why am I not surprised.
___________________________

I think ev1 here has missed the overall point that 
the OP referred to himself as a handyman, not a
GC. Almost all the postings talk about his people as 
being subs, he never even mentioned he was/is 
licensed.

I hope he does well, but I think he may just be a
Craigslist cruiser, not an actual Prime Contractor.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> This is a great thread... I am learning lots


:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

How was the trip, Matt?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Dbl post


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

What happens when you give out a subs number, or a referral? What's the worst possible thing that happens as it concerns damaging your business? What are you afraid of? Enlighten me.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks like the overall point is that the OP shouldn't care if this realtor wants a number for an electrician. Realtors and Landlords are at the absolute bottom of the food chain for a contractor or handyman. Some are really nice, loyal and great to work with but the majority are always looking to save 3 dollars.
The OP should aplaud this realtor for openly trying to steal his subs instead of go behind his back :laughing: (keep your enemies close, eh?  )

As a GC, I think Id be a little more open to handling everything through me if its an ongoing, positive relationship. A handyman shouldn't really give a crap :thumbsup: or his truck would say, "General Contractor" on it...


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> How was the trip, Matt?


The trip was great! We had a lot of fun. I wrote a brief synopsis on the Gatlinburg thread. Over all we as a family really enjoyed it. I just got home. I am happy to be home.

I would recommend Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge as a great family destination to anyone with kids who love the outdoors. 

Thanks for asking John!

On a related note. Buying a very nice quality matress for your home has a tendancy to make you a finicky sleeper and causes cheaper mattresses to really do a number on your back. Cant wait to jump into MY bed tonight..


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> The trip was great! We had a lot of fun. I wrote a brief synopsis on the Gatlinburg thread. Over all we as a family really enjoyed it. I just got home. I am happy to be home.
> 
> I would recommend Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge as a great family destination to anyone with kids who love the outdoors.
> 
> ...


At least you weren't sleeping on the floor at your mother-in-laws house... :laughing::blink:
I can't wait to get in my bed tonight...


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Tech Dawg said:


> .......As a GC, I think Id be a little more open to handling everything through me if its an ongoing, positive relationship. A handyman shouldn't really give a crap :thumbsup: or his truck would say, "General Contractor" on it...


Exactly


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

All this talk about subs has made me hungry.

I don't mind giving out my subs names, as I don't need them that often and they send work my way. The only ones I won't give out are the ones who do the same work as me. Concrete guys who do dryrot work, or roofers who also do windows and doors. That's protecting my business.

Of course, once they are on my job, I would expect them to have enough sense not to undercut me, or snake work from me. That works both ways. If I do a shower door for a contractor and the customer asks me to install windows, I'll call the GC and discuss it with him. That's just fair and good networking practice.

You can't get anywhere without a good network. I even have some real estate folks in mine. The horror.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> The trip was great! We had a lot of fun. I wrote a brief synopsis on the Gatlinburg thread. Over all we as a family really enjoyed it. I just got home. I am happy to be home.
> 
> I would recommend Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge as a great family destination to anyone with kids who love the outdoors.
> 
> ...



:thumbsup:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm very fortunate to have Tin as an electrician for me because he's very old :wheelchair:
I would openly refer him with no issues because he wouldn't want to steal other work because he's too old to handle it by himself :wheelchair:

:laughing::laughing::wallbash::blink:


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Tech Dawg said:


> As a GC, I think Id be a little more open to handling everything through me if its an ongoing, positive relationship. A handyman shouldn't really give a crap :thumbsup: or his truck would say, "General Contractor" on it...


I can't agree or disagree with this, I just don't understand it. Nothing about this makes sense unless I'm missing something.

A Realtor is in the business of selling or listing what's legally known as "real property". They are NOT a GC. 

So what does a positive ongoing relationship look like? A Realtor recommends contractors to the HO or the potential buyer. That's what they do. So where does that statement fit in to this picture? It doesn't make any sense to me and I deal with the top local Realtors weekly, daily in fact. 

A Realtor can recommend individual subs and they can recommend a GC or even both. That is the end of the relationship, if a Realtor is involved with a project past that point than I would seriously question doing business with that Realtor and I would call the Realtors association because it's illegal. Brokerages have strict laws against this.

Furthermore, hiding a subcontractor is ridiculous because this is 2012 and I can go visit google and find any contractor I want. It's not a secret. Not only are they easy to find in about 10 seconds but never before in history have we had the abundance of contractors like we do now. The supply is endless.

So from the GC end of things I still have to ask what is the real damage if you give out a number? Are you afraid you might miss out on a cut? A piece of the pie? Lol

Does a GC require a cut if the Realtor just needs an electrician to recommend for say a service change out? If that's the case than to that I say that particular GC has a crappy business. If a GC needs to rely on a cut for something like that then that means they either have no work or have such a crappy business the business can't get work on it's own merits. Which of course, brings me back to my original statement that the GC has no competitive advantage and it can't bring value to the table.

In my world I only do business with top GC's, top Realtors and top customers. 

1.) A real GC has value the company offers value continually, they don't need to scalp on everybody because they have an abundance of work. They don't think small, they think big, they think of strenghthening a business rather than "what they might miss". A top GC recognizes they need top subs and when the recommend top subs it strengthens the business. It fosters demand and fosters a reputation for a quality business. 

2.) A good Realtor understands he/she makes money selling property and they don't get involved in GC/sub affairs. They recommend the best and foster relationships because they know reputation is everything in the residential business.

3.) A top customer is one who recognizes there's value in both a GC or a sub and each has it's place. Any deviation from this is either a poor customer or a situation where so little value was had by the GC they realized they simply don't want them. Whos fault is that?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Seriously though.. this thread doesn't really call for uber long posts... 
Most Plumbers and Electricians are always very busy so as a GC, I'd think that if I had a strong relationship with those workers, they would appreciate that I can go look at the job, take pictures and other detailed information and get them on the schedule without the hassle of them dealing with the realtor separately. 
There is a lot to be said for a GC or even a Handyman that can provide that value. If they can't provide that value and service, then they should pass the name or number and be done with it


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Tech Dawg said:


> Seriously though.. this thread doesn't really call for uber long posts...
> Most Plumbers and Electricians are always very busy so as a GC, I'd think that if I had a strong relationship with those workers, they would appreciate that I can go look at the job, take pictures and other detailed information and get them on the schedule without the hassle of them dealing with the realtor separately.
> There is a lot to be said for a GC or even a Handyman that can provide that value. If they can't provide that value and service, then they should pass the name or number and be done with it


You don't need to read long posts. This isn't Russia.

But for the new guy who is reading this thread it matters more than he could possibly fathom.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> Seriously though.. this thread doesn't really call for uber long posts...
> Most Plumbers and Electricians are always very busy so as a GC, I'd think that if I had a strong relationship with those workers, they would appreciate that I can go look at the job, take pictures and other detailed information and get them on the schedule without the hassle of them dealing with the realtor separately.
> There is a lot to be said for a GC or even a Handyman that can provide that value. If they can't provide that value and service, then they should pass the name or number and be done with it


I agree, and offer that service to people who want to pay me for it. Otherwise, here is the guys name and number, tell him I referred him. If you need anything else, let me know.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Since the OP is a handyman, why wouldn't he give out the information?
> 
> It isn't like the subs phone numbers he would be giving out would actually be in competition with him right? An electrician isn't going to do handyman jobs, either is a plumber, framer, etc.


Exactly.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

To the OP, I care more about your business than you could possible understand. I want you to succeed.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Wow, not cool bro.
> 
> There are handymen who are pros, and dont cut grass.
> 
> Just not where I live..... :laughing:


Hey, I edited my post and added 'oops'.

I seriously thought the OP was long gone and the 
thread went haywire with him long gone.

My Bad.

I'll say 10 Hail Mary's tonight.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> To the OP, I care more about your business than you could possible understand. I want you to succeed.


I know you mean well Mike but that is a little creepy.. :laughing:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> I have no idea what that link is but it's a childish attempt at some ego driven purpose. If you don't like my posts than don't respond. I don't really care, my post isn't for or about people who are sensitive.
> 
> My job is to offer advice based on experience. Every day new contractors put out a shingle and are clueless. It's our job as contractors to guide them in a way that makes sense. If you lack the knowledge or the experience or the drive to do so then go watch the Simpsons.
> 
> ...



I don't call you childish for speaking your mind... How many times will I get personal attacks from ya?? This is the second thread that you call me childish and refer to me as stupid. 
Sometimes I make a crack about the long posts, but who hasn't?? It was a joke bro, but I do think the responses couldve been more simple for the OP so sorry if I offended you.
If you do have a problem feel free to call me. My number is in the sig line when you link to my website:thumbsup:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I know you mean well Mike but that is a little creepy.. :laughing:







:rockon:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Please dont drag me into it Todd...


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Please dont drag me into it Todd...


Into what?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

You and Mikes lovers quarrel... :laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I know you mean well Mike but that is a little creepy.. :laughing:


:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Bunited2 said:


> Hey, I edited my post and added 'oops'.
> 
> I seriously thought the OP was long gone and the
> thread went haywire with him long gone.
> ...


:thumbsup: :laughing:


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I know you mean well Mike but that is a little creepy.. :laughing:


Creepy? Ever see a best friend lose his home and his family all because he lost his business? All because he was blind to the reality that's construction? I have and he committed suicide. But that's not really why, that just iced the cake.

My best friend is a V P of a bank. You would be amazed at how many contractors are on the verge of collapse. Even the guy with the fancy trucks and fancy websites and the fancy signs where you'd swear he's got the world on a string probably is on the verge of collapse. I've seen it and I've been part of it. 

And then one day I found myself in the same position and asked myself how the he## it came to that. That was the day everything changed. 

Yes, I do care, I care about anybody who is a contractor and God forbid they would ever go through what I did. If I can reach out to just one single guy, just one guy with a family he's trying to support than SOB I will. I'll write posts so frickn long it's a gosh dam encyclopedia if I have to. I'll go as far as pushing a job to the next day and working with someone who actually cares....who listens. I've been through hell and back and somehow I survived. 

Caring is what this world is about. What else is there?

Ya know, I had strangers care about me once. I was totally Phucked and to be honest I didn't deserve help. I was down to $7 dollars on a Monday and no gas. Each day Monday -Friday I received cashiers checks from strangers each and every day. Somebody was responsible for that, somebody who decided to put me first sent me checks anonymously. Why? I wouldn't of written me a check. Lol

So where does that leave me? I clawed my way back but this time I look at life through a different lens. So yeah, dam right I care. It's personal for me.

My posts are long but is that really bad? I can be a jerk, I have a very short fuse for stupidity and ego. Ego, is how I failed so I know the damage that causes.

As far as people taking offense at me? And as far as being a bit abrasive? Yeah, I certainly can be and it's not my intent but I'll be dammed if I'm gonna let another person come between me and another business owner trying to make it and help his family.

I have a long ways to go before I give up helping and if I can't do it here I'll do it someplace else. Makes no difference. If I'm abrasive then tell me, I have thick skin.

That's all I have to say about that.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> You and Mikes lovers quarrel... :laughing:


I have alot of respect for the fella.. I don't understand why he decsends me as stupid and childish:blink:
Guess I'll go back to being a lurker since I'm not allowed to express an idea or two:no:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

*Thanks*



Oconomowoc said:


> To the OP, I care more about your business than you could possible understand. I want you to succeed.


Hey, thanks. My first day and you know how it goes. I can take a few lumps. Nothing personal.

To answer your question of "what would happen?" if I happen to give out the number, it would likely be what has happened in the past. Then I have to replace that resource with another in my core business which is quoting and addressing a long "to do" list with a tight timeframe. In addition, I'll be tripping over my resource on the same job, i.e added hassle, no leverage.

If I am going to take the time up front to walk a property with an agent, seller, etc, and give "rough numbers" to do x, y, and z, to prep a home for sale, then I expect a piece of it for my time since I'm not getting a consulting fee or anything like that. It's a quid pro quo relationship. Maybe that's not the best way to do things since I add built-n expectation for performance early on, but that's what I do. 

I mentioned my flooring guy. I got him involved in a couple jobs, yet now have to work around his schedule of dust, drying poly and all that, yet somehow I end up being the point man for the agent to meet the deadline, move-in date, whatever..


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> I have alot of respect for the fella.. I don't understand why he decsends me as stupid and childish:blink:
> Guess I'll go back to being a lurker since I'm not allowed to express an idea or two:no:


:no:

Come on, bro, let it go.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> Creepy? Ever see a best friend lose his home and his family all because he lost his business? All because he was blind to the reality that's construction? I have and he committed suicide. But that's not really why, that just iced the cake.
> 
> My best friend is a V P of a bank. You would be amazed at how many contractors are on the verge of collapse. Even the guy with the fancy trucks and fancy websites and the fancy signs where you'd swear he's got the world on a string probably is on the verge of collapse. I've seen it and I've been part of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for referring to me as stupid again... I appreciate it Mike:blink:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Jaws said:


> :no:
> 
> Come on, bro, let it go.


Let what go John??? Mike constantly refers to me as stupid and childish...
Last I checked, I was a 33 year old Grown man with a wife and 3 great kids, a home and the American dream of owning a business in the Home Improvement field. I am proud that I have a Highschool and College edjucation and that I have worked hard to be where I am at... does that make me childish and stupid, John???????????????????????


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> Let what go John??? Mike constantly refers to me as stupid and childish...
> Last I checked, I was a 33 year old Grown man with a wife and 3 great kids, a home and the American dream of owning a business in the Home Improvement field. I am proud that I have a Highschool and College edjucation and that I have worked hard to be where I am at... does that make me childish and stupid, John???????????????????????


Of course not. 

I just never have read him saying that other than this thread. If he does, I understand your position. 

In all your posts Ive read, childish and stupid never crossed my mind.

I think he was saying he felt your post was stupid. I do that all the time with people on this forum whos posts I respect. 

Just dont want to see you guys have a rift beyond a tift. :no:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> Let what go John??? Mike constantly refers to me as stupid and childish...
> Last I checked, I was a 33 year old Grown man with a wife and 3 great kids, a home and the American dream of owning a business in the Home Improvement field. I am proud that I have a Highschool and College edjucation and that I have worked hard to be where I am at... does that make me childish and stupid, John???????????????????????


Can I do the blink face from my phone?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Of course not.
> 
> I just never have read him saying that other than this thread. If he does, I understand your position.
> 
> ...


Rift beyond Tift:laughing: I like that saying...
I have no issues, I'm just waiting for him to not have any:thumbsup:


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Dont take any of this chit personal
> 
> Flush this thread and go check the forum out next visit, bud.
> 
> ...


Didn't see nothing all week. Home now from the hunt and it was a bad hunt.

I'm going coyote hunting though, that's for dam sure. They have decimated the deer heard. (That's my excuse anyhow)


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> Didn't see nothing all week. Home now from the hunt and it was a bad hunt.
> 
> I'm going coyote hunting though, that's for dam sure. They have decimated the deer heard. (That's my excuse anyhow)


Yeah, to many yearlings.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

You can hunt Sundays? :blink: Maybe it's our Blue Law stuff, but we have never been able to hunt Sundays.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Kent Whitten said:


> You can hunt Sundays? :blink: Maybe it's our Blue Law stuff, but we have never been able to hunt Sundays.


Yes. It ends 30 minutes before dark in Sunday evening.

Then blackpowder starts.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Kent Whitten said:


> You can hunt Sundays? :blink: Maybe it's our Blue Law stuff, but we have never been able to hunt Sundays.


Dawn to dusk from first Saturday in November to mid January.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Jaws said:


> ........
> When I was doing commercial, they didnt even want to replace ceiling tiles they removed.


That's ridiculous. When we did wiring not only would we
replace all our tiles, but sometimes others left open even 
by other trades that were left open (within reason).

I also always taught the guys I was working with, always
use the back of their hands to remove and replace.

And if they broke a tile go straight to the facility Mngr 
(or whoever) straight up and tell them you broke a tile
and if they have another one to replace it with. facility
mngrs love the honesty and quality and would usually
say that's ok one of my guys will do it, thanks.

Not replacing tiles after opening them, is like not 
flushing the toilet when they're done.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Bunited2 said:


> That's ridiculous. When we did wiring not only would we
> replace all our tiles, but sometimes others left open even
> by other trades that were left open (within reason).
> 
> ...


These idiots always broke the corners or turned the tiles the wrong direction. :blink:
Or had dirty hands and got stuff all over them. 

Better just to tell them to stack them and let the carpenters do it. I wasnt the GC, wouldnt tolerate it if I was. :no:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Jaws said:


> These idiots always broke the corners or turned the tiles the wrong direction. :blink:
> Or had dirty hands and got stuff all over them.
> 
> Better just to tell them to stack them and let the carpenters do it. I wasnt the GC, wouldnt tolerate it if I was. :no:


Gotta love dirty fingerprnts around every receptacle and switch....Amazing how I can put plates on and never have the same smudges...lol.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

I decided, after reading this thread, that not only am I going to pass out my subs numbers, but pass out the numbers of their family members as well.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

skcolo said:


> I decided, after reading this thread, that not only am I going to pass out my subs numbers, but pass out the numbers of their family members as well.


:laughing:


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## A-1 Interiors (Oct 12, 2011)

J F said:


> I forgot to mention,_ excellent _paragraph spacing, my man. :clap:


Grammer cop lol


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

skcolo said:


> I decided, after reading this thread, that not only am I going to pass out my subs numbers, but pass out the numbers of their family members as well.


I'd like to build a 3 car garage.. Could I have all your subs info so I can deal with them directly? And their family too, so I can allways get them when I need em... Thanks..:thumbsup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Lion Hunter (Apr 5, 2012)

Give her the number of a Craigslist hooker transvestite


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Jaws said:


> THAT is intelligent thinking.
> 
> We do cabinet modifications for our appliance supplier and install bug systems for one of our subs sometimes for the same reason.
> 
> Who buys bug systems at 100$ a nozzle and expensive appliances? Rich people. My crew shows up in logo'd hats and Polos and and trucks, and we have the potential to gain a new client.


Uhmm- what's a bug system????

is that a southern thing???
Seriously- I got no idea what that is.
stephen


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Stephen H said:


> Uhmm- what's a bug system????
> 
> is that a southern thing???
> Seriously- I got no idea what that is.
> stephen


Probably a southern "on the lake" thing. 

Its a pump system that you install nozzles into the soffit of the home. It mists an organic bug system that gets rid of all bugs and spiders. Systems are generally $8,500 - 30,000.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

jeez- I can't believe I read through that whole thing-what a soap opera!
highly entertaining, none the less.

not that it matters- but in my opinion Matt is entirely correct about the no-referrals.- I don't entirely find myself in line with his reasoning- but we arrive at the same position 

Jaws- I used to operate as you do-happy to make referrals, if I could- but no more.
Lived and learned-as, I imagine a lot of the folks who no longer make referrals have done.

My neighbor is a landscape contractor-and he gets a real boner out of being the kind of guy"who knows a guy...." He LOVES networking and making referrals- I imagine Mike the plumber is the same kind of person ,to a certain degree--------- but I aint that kind of guy-so basically, no referrals

I have 3 people, actually whose name I give out- the landscaper, a stone mason and a guy who does plaster repair- and I really super screen those referrals---really,REALLY screen them. Most people-even excellent customers- I won't give those numbers to.

Best wishes,
stephen

BTW- yes, landlords and realtors are the scum of the earth.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Probably a southern "on the lake" thing.
> 
> Its a pump system that you install nozzles into the soffit of the home. It mists an organic bug system that gets rid of all bugs and spiders. Systems are generally $8,500 - 30,000.


 learn something new every day!


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Stephen H said:


> jeez- I can't believe I read through that whole thing-what a soap opera!
> highly entertaining, none the less.
> 
> not that it matters- but in my opinion Matt is entirely correct about the no-referrals.- I don't entirely find myself in line with his reasoning- but we arrive at the same position
> ...


And restaurant owners


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I've had good experiences with restaurant owners but that is during the construction of the restaurant. When you tile them, they love you and give no problems because typically tile makes the whole job!

BUT, working for a restaurant owner in their own home, I've found to be very very different :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

In a fairly ironic turn of events I reffered both my hardwood floor guy and my drywaller today. Both for jobs that need to be done before Christmas and for long time repeat clients. 

After this spiralling thread of doom all bets are off. Anybody can have anybody phone number. :laughing:

I might even organize my google contacts and make all the pertinent notes then publish it in google drive..


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