# surface prep alternatives



## crazycarpenter (May 23, 2010)

Let me start off by saying that I'm not a professional painter and don't claim to be. However, I have done many painting projects over the years and I'm pretty skilled at it. 

So I've been re-siding 2 sides of a house for a family friend. In addition to siding it, she wants me to do the painting too. I honestly really need the money right now, so I agreed to do it. She is the cheapest, most obnoxious person I've ever met and most contractors would run away from people like her. She's always complaining about price, so as a personal favor to her I agreed to do the job for $600 (supplies provided by her) which I know is way below the going rate . It's a small ranch house so it probably will only take 2 days for me to do by hand (4" brush, not spraying).

Now to get to my surface prep question... In the past I've always power washed to get the surface clean for painting. How important is it to have a very clean surface before painting? Because I'm getting paid so little for the job, I don't want to go through the trouble and time consuming task of power washing. The siding that I haven't replaced isn't very dirty, but could be a little cleaner. Could I just take a broom to it and brush any remaining dirt off? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks. 

oh yea I forgot to mention the the siding is grooved cedar shakes. not sure if that makes any difference.


----------



## CarlW (Feb 2, 2006)

This is actually sort of a difficult question to answer because nobody will want to come right out and say that it is okay to paint over dirt. The power washing will remove the surface dirt that may deter adhesion of paint and that is why we do it. It's not always feasible of course though to power wash, so when it is not I will dust off with a dust brush or use a sanding block to loosen the dirt and then dust it away. Hand dusting is never going to be as effective as a good washing though IMO because sometimes you end up just pushing the dirt around and not removing it entirely. Even a quick wash with the garden hose may even be better. All that said, modern day acrylics adhere pretty darn good so if you paint over a little bit of dirt, it may actually stick long term...just don't go telling anyone that I said this. The big thing to consider is that if it is worth the risk to saving a few bucks? If the paint massively peels, then that could be a real headache down the road.


----------



## doncando (Mar 27, 2010)

It really depends on how dirty it is. My own house is a ranch with a hip roof and a 2' eave all around. It gets pretty dirty and the rain does not remove it since it rarely gets hit directly. I wouldn't consider painting without washing and I don't even think that a powerwasher does a good enough job. I used a bucket of soapy water, a bristle brush and a hose.

On the other hand, my brother has painted his bi-level with striated cedar shingles several times without any prep at all. There is no peeling at all. His shingles are fully exposed to the elements and don't seem to accumulate much dirt.

By the way, consider using a roller and then back-brushing. It may save you a lot of time.


----------



## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

I'd pay the price to do it right. If she's a difficult customer, she might notice that you aren't prepping correctly, and demand a discount / siding replacement. Sticklers like that usually look up how to do it themselves online first, and step one of ANY repaint job is cleaning the surface, usually with an actual cleaner mixed in.

Modern paints are very good, and can usually adhere to difficult surfaces, but what concerns me more is that you're dealing with a tough customer.


----------



## shesbros (Jun 15, 2005)

You would be better off power washing and doing absolutely no primer than you would be not power washing and doing a great job prepping. Without exception power washing is THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE PAINT JOB. Period.


----------



## crazycarpenter (May 23, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the feedback.


----------



## BMAN (Aug 21, 2006)

Well, According to new RRP EPA rules powerwashing is illegal unless you have a way to capture the water and flush it down the toilet (unless its a newer house built after 1978) So now you have a reason not to power wash it. So get your mist bottle out and manually sand the house with a wet sand paper and then vacuum the whole surface of the house with your new $600 hepa vacuum. Oh wait the whole job only pays $600.


----------



## BMAN (Aug 21, 2006)

As far as power washing being the most important step, we stopped power washing ten years ago as it raises the grain too much. We have always done a 100% palm sand on our houses eliminating all surface contamination. Now with the new rules we are using hepa equiped sanders and the we really do vacuum the house as we always did, now just with hepa.


----------



## crazycarpenter (May 23, 2010)

BMAN said:


> As far as power washing being the most important step, we stopped power washing ten years ago as it raises the grain too much. We have always done a 100% palm sand on our houses eliminating all surface contamination. Now with the new rules we are using hepa equiped sanders and the we really do vacuum the house as we always did, now just with hepa.


As far as power washing is concerned, if you're not careful you can definitely raise the grain. I've done it a few times and just turned down the pressure and it's worked out great. I just found out my pressure washer has bit the dust, so that's not an option for this project. 

These are grooved cedar shakes, so sanding isn't an option. I'm actually starting this project tomorrow so what I've decided to do is spray down the surface with a garden hose and then I'm going to take a wide, medium density bristle brush and scrub it down then rinse. I'm pretty confident that will work nicely. There's no paint peeling so the new stuff should go on nicely. 

Like I said before I'm a carpenter, not a professional painter and I'm just doing this as a favor. What's a decent exterior paint that I can get for around $30/ gallon? I've only painted 2 houses within the last 5 years and I've used Behr Premium solid color stain, and Valspar. Those have both held up well so far, but I've heard mixed reviews on this forum. Thinking Ben Moore or Sherwin this time... any recommendations for those brands? I'm sorry, I'm sure this has been another post just lookin for a quick answer though.


----------



## BMAN (Aug 21, 2006)

Oh yes, I missed the grooved cedar fact. We use a wire brush. if its not peeling the a detergent wash to remove any oily residue shuld be fine. Even the Biodegradable clorox will work fine.


----------



## doncando (Mar 27, 2010)

crazycarpenter said:


> As far as power washing is concerned, if you're not careful you can definitely raise the grain. I've done it a few times and just turned down the pressure and it's worked out great. I just found out my pressure washer has bit the dust, so that's not an option for this project.
> 
> These are grooved cedar shakes, so sanding isn't an option. I'm actually starting this project tomorrow so what I've decided to do is spray down the surface with a garden hose and then I'm going to take a wide, medium density bristle brush and scrub it down then rinse. I'm pretty confident that will work nicely. There's no paint peeling so the new stuff should go on nicely.
> 
> Like I said before I'm a carpenter, not a professional painter and I'm just doing this as a favor. What's a decent exterior paint that I can get for around $30/ gallon? I've only painted 2 houses within the last 5 years and I've used Behr Premium solid color stain, and Valspar. Those have both held up well so far, but I've heard mixed reviews on this forum. Thinking Ben Moore or Sherwin this time... any recommendations for those brands? I'm sorry, I'm sure this has been another post just lookin for a quick answer though.


I like your prep plans. I think a bristle brush works better than a power washer. Thow a little TSP in your wash bucket for better cleaning.

As far as paint brands... I think Behr gets a worse rap than it actually deserves but I can't tell you whether or not it's the equal of Ben Moore or Sherwin Williams. If I was painting a customer's house, I would use a brand, such as either of those 2, that was known for a quality paint. I wouldn't buy big box paint simply because if there's a paint failure issue in the future, you don't want to wonder (or worse yet, have your customer wonder) whether or not it was due to an inferior product.


----------



## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I use tsp and bleech, scrub it with a long handled scrub brush and rinse it off with a garden hose. Seems to work great. Never cared much for power washing, especially if it is wood.

P.S. read the directions on the paint, this last job the paint said specifically not to use TSP. found out after I finished, but so far no harm.


----------



## doncando (Mar 27, 2010)

abacab said:


> P.S. read the directions on the paint, this last job the paint said specifically not to use TSP. found out after I finished, but so far no harm.


I don't suppose they said why not. I just can't imagine that there's a "special" paint out there that is incompatible with a TSP-washed surface while all other paints are just fine. I'm going to guess that they were concerned about consumers getting too much TSP exposure (like getting it in their eyes) rather than it not being a good prep method.


----------



## BMAN (Aug 21, 2006)

If you are looking for a less expesive paint that holds up as well as SW Duration then try the Duramax at Lowes. Its great, I have used it for customers trying to save a little and it does a great job at $20 less a gallon for the same properties. Only downfall is it sets up fast so wash your brushes often or they will get heavy and hard fast!!


----------

