# TX hill country stucco



## Willin (Aug 20, 2012)

'Splain to me the pros and cons of what I think is typical there, that being scratch-brown-finish-paint, versus a color-in Santa Barbara job, which I believe is scratch-brown-finish1-finish2, both finish1 and finish2 being colored.

Relative costs? Durability?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Very seldom do people request colored stucco anymore. Stucco, Loxon, two coats of Con Flex or Super Paint, rolled and brushed. A good paint job, even in this harsh sun will last around seven years before it begins to fade, many last as long as 10. The problem is most dont do a good paint job with good elastomeric primer that will flex and shrink with the stuccom

Eventually, it all gets painted anyway, when the stucco fades.

On repaints for stucco we Lexel the cracks, to seal it up.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

I do not think I have ever seen new stucco painted. Always a colored stucco. Then again 95% is EIFS now.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

Scratch, brown, color coat........... when one wants a new color, new color coat; no peeling, flaking, etc. to deal with and when it's the first time around everything's already set up for it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Rio said:


> Scratch, brown, color coat........... when one wants a new color, new color coat; no peeling, flaking, etc. to deal with and when it's the first time around everything's already set up for it.


Probably a better way to do it, just not a common practice here. My dad did a few like that.


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## Willin (Aug 20, 2012)

Saw a number of newish houses, maybe up to 4 y.o., near Kerrville, all stucco done the no-paint two-thin-coats-color-in "Santa Barbara" way, trowel burns creating the nicely variegated look one sees when done this way. Like Venetian plaster inside.

Everything I saw in Kendall, Comal, and Bexar counties, same scale and value in housing, all of it was painted.

Seems to me if you are representing your style as Spanish colonial, Tuscan, Mediterranean, or old settlement German, you oughta do your stucco color-in, instead of painting it like some fast-food box store.

But I still wonder, at what cost premium does one get this more genuine look? I guess it's better to "ask the builder."


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Willin said:


> Saw a number of newish houses, maybe up to 4 y.o., near Kerrville, all stucco done the no-paint two-thin-coats-color-in "Santa Barbara" way, trowel burns creating the nicely variegated look one sees when done this way. Like Venetian plaster inside.
> 
> Everything I saw in Kendall, Comal, and Bexar counties, same scale and value in housing, all of it was painted.
> 
> ...


I guess it depends on your outlook. 

I am primarily a remodeler, when I add on to a home that has painted stucco, it gets painted stucco, which is most. The older lake homes need to be painted anyway, and it is included in my bids using the above stated products. I have some nice work we did more than 8 years ago on Apple Head I can show you, still looks great.

I like to think my work is better than your average fast food restaurant, but every one has their own opinion :thumbsup:

The last time I remember including colored stucco in a bid was in '11, my dad did the bid. We didnt get it, but I can look at what the qoute was and figure up the cost difference between colored and painted. 

Kerrville/Frddricksburg have some high end homes, and some old school custom builders, father south you go from there, the more competitive the market and cheaper the housing. 

If a client asked for or an archy spec'd colored stucco Id include it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I didnt want to open a can of worms, but I have been taught, as most builders here, that paint seals it up better. A lot of older stucco here leaked from cracks, the heat and humidity cause the framing to swell and contract, causing cracks. If you use an elastomeric paint and caulk it moves with the stucco and doesnt crack easily. Also, stucco, much like white rock stains easily from rain splatter, and the stains dont come out.

I was under the impression that colored stucco was actually higher, but I texted my dad, he said it was cheaper, here anyway. 

Not saying im right, just how I was taught. My dad was taught by grandpa to caulk lap siding on houses up tight..... we all know that isnt right. Luckily my dad reads, as do I. 

Id be interested to hear what others thoughts on colored stucco and my issues with it are. Especially from a hot and humid climate.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I am putting this over a scratch coat http://www.umaco.com/sites/umaco.com/files/pdf/data/Finish-Coat 2013_0.pdf, which is going over a block wall. It will be colored tan.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Stucco cracks. Plan your water barrier correctly and build it to spec and it isn't a problem. Do a crappy stucco job and it leaks. That is when paint is applied, and it hides the problem for a few more years.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

JBM said:


> I am putting this over a scratch coat http://www.umaco.com/sites/umaco.com/files/pdf/data/Finish-Coat 2013_0.pdf, which is going over a block wall. It will be colored tan.


Thanks for the info :thumbsup:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tscarborough said:


> Stucco cracks. Plan your water barrier correctly and build it to spec and it isn't a problem. Do a crappy stucco job and it leaks. That is when paint is applied, and it hides the problem for a few more years.


I use drain wrap, have never had a single leak for any finish exterior we ever installed....

I also flash, caulk and install everything so that water never touches my building wrap....

So your saying even good stucco doesnt crack in our climate? 

I take you information at face value because of your posts and the fact you live and practice your trade here. Just asking questions. 

Maybe I should get with you for a better stucco man. You know any you would recommend and be sure they wouldnt have cracks?


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

With traditional stucco, the paper is the water barrier, the stucco protects the paper. That means all the details at all the penetrations need to be done just right. Water will easily penetrate and run within traditional stucco. 

The elastomeric finishes change the way the system works. With an elastomeric finish the finish on the stucco is the water barrier. 

Traditional stucco has a richer more mottled appearance, elastomeric is a very uniform color and appearance. 

Elastomeric is probably a bit more expensive, a bit better at protecting the building, does not look quite as good.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

Traditional stucco with paint is the absolute norm here. All paint companies have their own products that work very well with the stucco. We use Dunn Edwards paints with their F stop primer. 

I truly believe geographical location has a lot to do with acceptable applications and given our hot dry climate I sleep very well at night knowing a high quality paint job is on top of the same quality stucco.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I am saying all stucco cracks, but if the detailing is done correctly it is not an issue. When the detailing is not done correctly, the stucco cracks, water intrudes, and rot ensues.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tscarborough said:


> I am saying all stucco cracks, but if the detailing is done correctly it is not an issue. When the detailing is not done correctly, the stucco cracks, water intrudes, and rot ensues.


My point is, all stucco cracks. As a builder, I want to not ever count on my substrate.:thumbsup:

I acknowledge painted stucco doesnt look as authentic, but imo, two coats of elastomeric paint with an elastomeric primer ensures a good sealed up exterior :thumbsup:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Question for TScar and Jaws

One of the standard finishes for stucco is an elastomeric that comes in a 5 gallon bucket and is applied with a trowel. The color comes in a small jar, 1 jar per bucket, is mixed in on site with a mixer on a drill. 

This elastomeric finish is considerably more expensive than two coats of latex paint. Typically it is used on top of "Western One Coat" brown coat. This is a base that is a single application. The product is a mortar with glass fibers in it with only sand added on site. 

I have always believed that this is a more reliable finish than two coats of paint. It seems to crack less, certainly it seals as well or better than paint. 

The question is, do you believe two coats of elastomeric paint does as well as a single coat of trowel on elastomeric?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

There are two kinds of stucco, stucco that's cracked and stucco that's going to crack.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

thom said:


> Question for TScar and Jaws
> 
> One of the standard finishes for stucco is an elastomeric that comes in a 5 gallon bucket and is applied with a trowel. The color comes in a small jar, 1 jar per bucket, is mixed in on site with a mixer on a drill.
> 
> ...


Never used it, always used 2 coats of elastomeric paint over elastomeric primer. 

I am checking into it though :thumbsup: Thanks for the information.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

The building paper or house wrap is the drainage plane. If you're counting on paint to keep the water out, count on leaks.

If you're painting over stucco you want to apply a paint that 'breathes', one that will allow the water vapor to pass through the paint. Otherwise it can be trapped between the back of the paint and the stucco and it can cause all sorts of problems.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Rio said:


> The building paper or house wrap is the drainage plane. If you're counting on paint to keep the water out, count on leaks.
> 
> If you're painting over stucco you want to apply a paint that 'breathes', one that will allow the water vapor to pass through the paint. Otherwise it can be trapped between the back of the paint and the stucco and it can cause all sorts of problems.


Use drain wrap and the paint and primer I stated above. Never had a problem, most of the houses we work on are rock and stucco.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> There are two kinds of stucco, stucco that's cracked and stucco that's going to crack.



Silpro or Umaco applied onto masonry only cracks when the masonry does. 

I could do a brick or block veneer, wall, building-whatever and stucco it and it would last forever and will be waterproof.


I will snap a picture of the side of a block walled garage I sponged off in 86'. Still looks perfect. Silpro for the win.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

If you want to use an elastomeric, check the elongation rating. As a rule, an elastomeric coating (trowel applied) will have a better rating than an elastomeric paint no matter how many coats you apply.


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

Rio said:


> The building paper or house wrap is the drainage plane. If you're counting on paint to keep the water out, count on leaks.
> 
> If you're painting over stucco you want to apply a paint that 'breathes', one that will allow the water vapor to pass through the paint. Otherwise it can be trapped between the back of the paint and the stucco and it can cause all sorts of problems.



The house wrap alone does not create a drainage plane. The first layer of house wrap is purely sacrificial as the masonry will bond/adhere to it. Pulled of plenty of stucco where the Tyvek lettering is imprinted on the back of the stucco. A proper drain field consists of 2 layers of wrap/paper. You put 2 layers and then some sort of rainscreen or drainage wrap. Keene rainscreen is what we use. It has a mesh layer which prevents stucco from getting in the webbing or the hives which create the drain plain and positive air flow. Now you have an actual air space between masonry and house wrap. As far as color goes we add it to the mix or use prebagged, but I think the prebag stuff is terrible


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

Ohteah said:


> The house wrap alone does not create a drainage plane. The first layer of house wrap is purely sacrificial as the masonry will bond/adhere to it. Pulled of plenty of stucco where the Tyvek lettering is imprinted on the back of the stucco. A proper drain field consists of 2 layers of wrap/paper. You put 2 layers and then some sort of rainscreen or drainage wrap. Keene rainscreen is what we use. It has a mesh layer which prevents stucco from getting in the webbing or the hives which create the drain plain and positive air flow. Now you have an actual air space between masonry and house wrap. As far as color goes we add it to the mix or use prebagged, but I think the prebag stuff is terrible


That's right and per code out here it's two layers of building paper. Where it's rainier an actual rain screen is a really good idea also.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Stucco sounds like a real nightmare. Glad I don't do it. Thin veneer is enough of a headache


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