# Rough in Plumbing



## maccam (Jan 1, 2008)

I was a plumber in California for many years we would rough the plumbing in on new homes with a set of plans after the floor joists were rolled and top out the house after framed. I now live on the east coast and notice here they go in and plumb the whole deal after it is framed. They crawl out the whole underneath stuff like we had to do on remodles. WTF is the deal with that east coast plumbers? Do the carpenters run the whole show?


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Time to up the cost for that rough-in. It's BS if you ask me.


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## maccam (Jan 1, 2008)

When I explain to a plumber here how we did it by walking the joist before the sub floor goes down they stare at me with a glazed look and smirk like I am some damn fool.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

You may have a point there, but I doubt that you have time to reform the entire eastern 2/3 of the country.:no:


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## te12c02w (Jun 1, 2007)

Here in Wyoming The plumbers don't come on the job to rough in until the house is closed in. Except for underground of course. I never knew there was another way.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

The reason is the project manager try to control costs down by outlining which steps or project tasks to complete in sequences so to minimize labor hour charges for the whole project. They also try to minimize the unnecessary disruptions of works by other trades all mixed together in one phase, and also minimize those required mini-inspections and their long waiting for the inspectors to come regularly to continue or not.:thumbsup: The results are projects gone quicker, cost effective, and work efficient!.. Now, row houses are built so fast.. no wonder our economy sucks with plenty of them still sit UNSOLD!!..


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

I'm so glad to live on the west coast where where the carpenters know how the plumbers rough. What a nightmare for all the plumbers on the east coast. Sorry your carpenters don't have a clue over there.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Truth of the matter is, in the great westward migration many tradesmen 
were subjected to mountain sickness, 
oxygen deprivation as they crossed the Rockies and again in the Sierra.
Thus the guys who arrived on the coast were already brain damaged
And unable to remember the proper methods of home construction.
Plumbers were the most susceptible to this condition.:laughing:
:jester:


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## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

It may be that the weather in the eastern half dictates that the house be dryed in as fast as possible and no one else should get in the carpenters way till then. At least thats the way it is here in Alabama. Inless its on a slab ive never heard of any other way. Sense i also do the plumbing i make it easer on myself before laying the floor joist by leveling and raking smooth the ground under the house to get rid of the rocks and concrete scraps. Then after house is dryed in i lay down a 6 mil poly vapor barrior over the entire area before plumbing. The hvac contractors thank me for it too.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

dlcj said:


> It may be that the weather in the eastern half dictates that the house be dryed in as fast as possible and no one else should get in the carpenters way till then. At least thats the way it is here in Alabama. Inless its on a slab ive never heard of any other way. Sense i also do the plumbing i make it easer on myself before laying the floor joist by* leveling and raking smooth the ground under the house to get rid of the rocks and concrete scraps. Then after house is dryed in i lay down a 6 mil poly vapor barrior over the entire area before plumbing. The hvac contractors thank me for it too.*


Just good practice. 
Add 3-4" pea gravel before the visqueen, 
and you're on the way to the vapor barrier/crawl insulation package 
that all of us should be doing.
Then you have to go in and clean out the scraps and trash 
from plumbers,hvac, and sparkys before you put in your insulation.
I think that you and Selfcontract have hit most of the points for doing it
the "Right Coast" way.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

dlcj said:


> It may be that the weather in the eastern half dictates that the house be dryed in as fast as possible and no one else should get in the carpenters way till then.


:laughing: Like it never rains in Oregon.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

By framing the entire house in one shot, all trades can now come in instead of all of them waithing for you, then the framers again.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

maccam said:


> I was a plumber in California for many years we would rough the plumbing in on new homes with a set of plans after the floor joists were rolled and top out the house after framed. I now live on the east coast and notice here they go in and plumb the whole deal after it is framed. They crawl out the whole underneath stuff like we had to do on remodles. WTF is the deal with that east coast plumbers? Do the carpenters run the whole show?


OK, just so I have this straight, you want me to attempt to schedule a plumber to be on site when the carpenters are done hanging the joists to do about three hours worth of work, since he can't do more than stub up till the deck is done and the rest of the frame is complete? And then I have to pay his time to travel to another job while burning gas in a company truck, to do maybe three hours worth of work there, if I even have a another job for him to go to that day?

Nope sorry, not happening.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> OK, just so I have this straight, you want me to attempt to schedule a plumber to be on site when the carpenters are done hanging the joists to do about three hours worth of work


A plumber like as in one? Three hour? Sorry to burst your bubble, but doing an underfloor after the joist are rolled is not going to happen with a plumber, as in one. Even if it was a one bath single level, it will take longer then three hours.

Sorry.


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

I have never seen it done that way either, unless it was a slab. We have always got it framed and covered so the plumbers don't have to work in the rain. And even if the floor joists are rolled and not covered with plywood, you still have to crawl around down there, and this would be worse if it is raining.

For myself and the other trades I also have a nice crawl space. I make sure the foundation walls are a litle higher so there is more room, then clean the ground up, spread sand, and then cover with the VB. When crawling down there you don't need knee pads the sand is so cushy. And for the plumbers I also put in the waste pipe under or through the foundation so they don't have to dig it. And also since I am the one who is hooking up to that waste pipe outside, installing the clean out, and am the one who is installing the septic. I put the waste pipe under before the framing has started and when I am putting in the foundation perimeter drains and running the water line from the well into the house.


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## maccam (Jan 1, 2008)

Well that East coast plumber attitude is why I do not do plumbing here and got my contractors license here, so get on you belly fools and get it done, lmao.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

maccam said:


> Well that East coast plumber attitude is why I do not do plumbing here and got my contractors license here, so get on you belly fools and get it done, lmao.


 I'm not sure where you're located,but most new homes here have a full basement and are an easy access for plumbers so there is not a need to have to crawl around on your belly.
If the new homes you work on do have crawl spaces,than it's up to you to be waiting at hand to get your rough-in done while the joists are open, if you can stay out of the framers way.
If you can communicate your need to the builder to have the access before the plywood is laid down,I'm sure he will try and schedule you in,but you can't expect the framers to stop and wait because they're getting paid by the sq/ft. 
It's all in the attitude on your approach.I've left floors open for plumbers on remods,because I can move on to other aspects of the job and would gladly agree to making it easier for any trade,provided they work with me and understand my scheduling needs also.
Each trade is there to make a living so if you can come up with a viable course of action that works for both trades,you'll gain more respect than just bashing a particular mode of construction.
Be part of the solution,not the problem.


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## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

what oldfrt said.. plus if there pipes sticking up through the joist everywhere dont the framers have to cut around all that mess slowing them down considerably? Not that i would do it but some framers around here would cover them up just for spite.


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## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

The few houses that I've framed have been here in Oregon - flat lots have foundation stem walls about 2' high. Plumber roughs in after joists have been rolled and framers pre cut holes for stubs before dropping decking. Lifting walls that have the bottom plate all notched up is annoying. I wouldn't want to be a plumber trying to rough in after framing though - no light, no space, dragging your pipes down the access hole which is stuck in the back of a closet - what a nightmare.

Hopefully the majority of East Coast houses have taller crawl spaces than the houses I've worked on. I understand the production points made about not cutting up the work and letting each trade go whole hawg when their turn comes.

I like oldfrt's line though... Be part of the solution, not the problem.

Mac


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

maccam said:


> Well that East coast plumber attitude is why I do not do plumbing here and got my contractors license here, so get on you belly fools and get it done, lmao.


I've never seen this sort of an act....maybe it had something to w/all the different a-holes you worked for....who is the a-hole? You or the arrogant prick that had you get 'er done?

:laughing:


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## AbeBarker (Jan 3, 2007)

You have to get used to the cluster.


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

maccam said:


> Well that East coast plumber attitude is why I do not do plumbing here and got my contractors license here, so get on you belly fools and get it done, lmao.


 
Most guys that can't cut it in one trade or another end up as "remodlers" a nice name for handyman.

Remodler, sure I can change that wallpaper for ya lady


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

wrenchman said:


> Most guys that can't cut it in one trade or another end up as "remodelers" a nice name for handyman.
> Remodeler, sure I can change that wallpaper for ya lady


Easy there big fella.


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

I have worked in many states and as soon as you say your from jersey they want you to start tomorrow. I think that says alot about how things are done in the old garden state.


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## maccam (Jan 1, 2008)

wrenchman, the only thing I cut now is a check to the subs when they get their job completed, now get back under the house and clean up your mess, hahahaha.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

BuiltByMAC said:


> The few houses that I've framed have been here in Oregon - flat lots have foundation stem walls about 2' high. Plumber roughs in after joists have been rolled and framers pre cut holes for stubs before dropping decking. Lifting walls that have the bottom plate all notched up is annoying. I wouldn't want to be a plumber trying to rough in after framing though - no light, no space, dragging your pipes down the access hole which is stuck in the back of a closet - what a nightmare.
> 
> Hopefully the majority of East Coast houses have taller crawl spaces than the houses I've worked on. I understand the production points made about not cutting up the work and letting each trade go whole hawg when their turn comes.
> 
> ...


Wow did not know I had a neighbor here in Eugene, yep you don't see basements here, there few a far between.

Plumber are in before electricians and before Heating and AC.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

I've said it before,
framers
plumbers
tinners
sparky
LV/telecom.
Least flexible first, most flexible last.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

wrenchman said:


> Most guys that can't cut it in one trade or another end up as "remodelers" a nice name for handyman.
> 
> Remodeler, sure I can change that wallpaper for ya lady


Even guys like me who are a licensed GC? I apprenticed evey trade in anticipation of becoming a remodeling gc but i guess my gc license just makes me a glorified handyman :laughing::thumbsup:


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## A Good Plumber (Jan 7, 2008)

In California the reason we do the underfloor piping before the subfloor is put down is because an underfloor inspection of all trades work is required and not many inspectors like crawling all areas of the home to inspect each trades work.


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## essrmo (May 2, 2007)

new construction gc sets up everything beforehand., plumbers are there before the foundation goes in and they schedule accordingly. remodel is what it is.


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

kevjob said:


> Even guys like me who are a licensed GC? I apprenticed evey trade in anticipation of becoming a remodeling gc but i guess my gc license just makes me a glorified handyman :laughing::thumbsup:


 
You apprenticed every trade??? How many years did that take? Exactly what do you consider _every_ trade?


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

hvac plumbing, eletrical from when I was 16 till 26 My dad was a GC and I worked for all his subs for usualyy ayear or two at a time, cheap labor for them and invaluable experience for me, any other questions?


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

kevjob said:


> hvac plumbing, eletrical from when I was 16 till 26


 So you didn't finish any apprenticeships then?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

kevjob said:


> hvac plumbing, eletrical from when I was 16 till 26 My dad was a GC and I worked for all his subs for usualyy ayear or two at a time, cheap labor for them and invaluable experience for me, any other questions?



I don't think a year or two qualifies as "apprenticeship".


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

the point is not every gc is some idiot with zero knowledge of the trades, I did the time on job so i could help my subs be ready for everything and make everything ready for the, I am the type if the job isn't ready will make it ready for you whatever I need to do then only viable way for to do that is to know everyones trade.


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## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

*Charlie Dont Surf!*

*SOMEDAY THIS WAR IS GONNA END.:w00t:*


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## RopeaGoat (Sep 21, 2007)

*What?!? Rough a house w/out using the Hole Hawg, Lennox 1-Tooth saws, nor the Sawzall?!? Next you'll tell me I can't cut out the door jams or modify the stairs to move my tubs or showerstalls into the 2nd floor baths! If I can't ruin good carpentry what's in this trade for me? :confused1:*


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