# Electrician with a shot gun!!



## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

We do alot of remodels and updating work which involves old plaster walls. Often because the new area has updated electrical, the client wishes for some updates in other, older parts of the house. Our electrician punches holes the size of grapefruits all over the place,smashing through wood lathe with his hammer, and "cutting" channels at shin height!! The patch work keeps us (the carpenters) and the painters busy for hours!! I always tell him to work as if no one was coming behind him, "Act as if we are not here!!!". He works for the company, not a sub so he doesnt get back charged. Any one with the same or sim. problem???


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

D.Foster said:


> We do alot of remodels and updating work which involves old plaster walls. Often because the new area has updated electrical, the client wishes for some updates in other, older parts of the house. Our electrician punches holes the size of grapefruits all over the place,smashing through wood lathe with his hammer, and "cutting" channels at shin height!! The patch work keeps us (the carpenters) and the painters busy for hours!! I always tell him to work as if no one was coming behind him, "Act as if we are not here!!!". He works for the company, not a sub so he doesnt get back charged. Any one with the same or sim. problem???


Time for a new electrician.


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

K2 is right, if he is that poor and inexperianced (ie lazy) of an electrician he needs to go, unless he is one of those $15 an hour ones that the company loves to keep around because he is cheap.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I rewire a heck of a lot of old houses and very rarely do I have to cut extra holes. I say the electrician is an idiot. He's trying to make a new work job out of old work.


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

Yes it is alot of extra work. And the awkward thing is that he is a good friend of mine, I dont want to bash him, I just want to know if anyone has had to handle something like this, and how they did. Apart from saying what i have already said to him,...repeatedly.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

D.Foster said:


> Yes it is alot of extra work. And the awkward thing is that he is a good friend of mine, I dont want to bash him, I just want to know if anyone has had to handle something like this, and how they did. Apart from saying what i have already said to him,...repeatedly.


keep track of the time for repair work for a couple of weeks...correlate it to $ and give it to someone who has a clue...

it may work out cheaper to have him bash holes and you fix it...he may be told by the higher ups to do this...i don't know..

or, they may not realize all the extra money he is costing them for repairs...


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

This may sound crazy but here goes. 

He probably has never been *shown *the process of what it takes to patch the holes he cuts.

He has never been *taught* how to cut a hole correctly to make it easier for the wall to be patched.


everyone will say it common sense but you will be surprised that a lot of guys just don't know


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## Bob Mariani (Nov 28, 2008)

with over 35 years of electrical remodeling experience, I can assure you that this is not necessary. Best way is to explain this to the responsible party. The total costs of this electrical work must be looked at as a complete task. Electrical, carpentry, plasters/drywall, cleanup and painting. Make a new contract with electrician that includes all costs. He can sub it out, not bid, fix it all himself or learn better ways to do things. Actually he is smart and not spending more time to accomplish his task. The dumb one here is the GC or homeowner.


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

One time, had a new plumber come into a new frame to do his rough in, (his grandfather was an awesome plumber & this guy worked his whole life with him, the grandfather was getting near retirement & asked if would give his grandson the job, no problem).
He called & said he had called in his rough in inspection, he was putting in for his draw. I went to do a walk thru to see if all was ok. 
He had cut so much framing, headers, beams, band beams, what ever made his job easier, including drilling a 4" hole thru an lvl. 
I walked back to my truck, got my 32 oz Estwing & knocked out every pc of plastic where he had drilled thu what he shouldn't have, called him & said he needed to come to the site, plumbing turned down due to leaks, bring your grandfather with you as well to walk thru a few things. 
When they both walked in, Mike, the one who did the plumbing rough in was floored with amazement, the grandfather looked around and just began laughing his azz off. The grandfather said I told you son, no shortcuts here.
After that we did become pretty good friends as well as he learnt to respect the work of others. At least on my jobs he did. :thumbup:
Sometimes one has to do as one does for the other to learn, --=shrug


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

mahlere said:


> keep track of the time for repair work for a couple of weeks...correlate it to $ and give it to someone who has a clue...
> 
> it may work out cheaper to have him bash holes and you fix it...he may be told by the higher ups to do this...i don't know..
> 
> or, they may not realize all the extra money he is costing them for repairs...


The only higher ups are me and one other who pays the bills, and estimates.
But that is a good idea about adding up the labor price to repair the damage.
He is working for half the price of an outside sub. but i dont think the time for the repairs is ever budgeted in to the jobs we do,and i agree that is a mistake on the estimating end.


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> This may sound crazy but here goes.
> 
> He probably has never been *shown *the process of what it takes to patch the holes he cuts.
> 
> ...


He has been shown the ways, suggested 3" hole saw, tracing a 4x4 block so that they are all uniform size holes. If the holes are even needed.
But you are right, the obvious to me is not to him. When i suggested a flex bit to drill a hole in the top plate of a wall,.. he had not considered it!!


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

Bob Mariani said:


> with over 35 years of electrical remodeling experience, I can assure you that this is not necessary. Best way is to explain this to the responsible party. The total costs of this electrical work must be looked at as a complete task. Electrical, carpentry, plasters/drywall, cleanup and painting. Make a new contract with electrician that includes all costs. He can sub it out, not bid, fix it all himself or learn better ways to do things. Actually he is smart and not spending more time to accomplish his task. The dumb one here is the GC or homeowner.


I would not call leaving a path of destruction,that i don't plan on fixing a smart thing. He is never rushed unreasonably and he has all the needed tools. I see your point though, but if he ever went to do work on his own the client would need to hire another crew to come behind him.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

D.Foster said:


> He has been shown the ways, suggested 3" hole saw, tracing a 4x4 block so that they are all uniform size holes. If the holes are even needed.
> But you are right, the obvious to me is not to him. When i suggested a flex bit to drill a hole in the top plate of a wall,.. he had not considered it!!



Then the next step is to have him patch his own holes. 

Let him actually see why the holes need to be as neat and well executed as the rest of the work being performed.

Have him actually patch 3 or 4 holes 2 crooked ones 2 well cut ones


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

rbsremodeling said:


> Then the next step is to have him patch his own holes.
> 
> Let him actually see why the holes need to be as neat and well executed as the rest of the work being performed.
> 
> Have him actually patch 3 or 4 holes 2 crooked ones 2 well cut ones


Good idea,..I may even buy him a couple joint knives!!:w00t:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I dont' get it, who is his boss? Who is running the company? He is an employee without a boss? How does an employee get to do whatever the hell he wants?

Are you his boss? Are you the owner? Why is it anymore difficult then this is the way to do it or there is the door?

If you aren't his boss or the owner, why don't you go to the owner or his boss and explain to them about how much money he is costing the company?


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

The obvious question is what the hell kind of professional electrician doesn't understand the importance of making these holes correctly? And why is he being allowed to keep doing it wrong?


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

> The only higher ups are me and one other who pays the bills, and estimates.
> But that is a good idea about adding up the labor price to repair the damage.
> He is working for half the price of an outside sub. but i dont think the time for the repairs is ever budgeted in to the jobs we do,and i agree that is a mistake on the estimating end.


(I only quoted this comment, but any would do...)

Either you are lost or I am. Why is he working for half the price of 'an outside sub'? Outside what? Is he in house or not? Pretty much it sounds like you're getting what you pay for. Do the math... is it cheaper for you to repair this bobo's damage, or hire someone competent who doesn't create the damage? You don't make it clear whether you are in charge or not, if you are then you balance your friendship with this guy against what he is costing you, if you are not in charge then tell someone who is if you care, or keep quiet.


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

reveivl said:


> (I only quoted this comment, but any would do...)
> 
> Either you are lost or I am. Why is he working for half the price of 'an outside sub'? Outside what? Is he in house or not? Pretty much it sounds like you're getting what you pay for. Do the math... is it cheaper for you to repair this bobo's damage, or hire someone competent who doesn't create the damage? You don't make it clear whether you are in charge or not, if you are then you balance your friendship with this guy against what he is costing you, if you are not in charge then tell someone who is if you care, or keep quiet.


He is "in house". The frustrating thing about where i work is that im givin a semblance of authority, over the other carpenters and helpers. But when it comes to the "in house " sparky, he is kind of his own entity. He does get bitched out by the "boss", and it doesnt always seem to help. Like i said too i have spoken to him too before i "back doored" him by goin to the boss. I think you are the one lost, cause everyone else seems to get it,..no offense. Cost analasys is def a good idea, but ithink it is a pride thing where someone making just as much as i am can be sooo careless so often. I have nothing further to say. Thanks everyone


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## D.Foster (Sep 13, 2008)

I hope that maybe sheds some kind of light on Finleys ?'s too.


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Sounds like he is providing job security for you guys...:thumbsup:


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