# I am thinking hydroban



## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Next project will be tilling small (i think 4x 9) shower walls (three of them)...HO is handy and installed proper vapour barrer and blue drywall...

They are on budget and its filler for my weekends.

I tried looking this up on forums and came across one thread where arguement started between JW CO762 and nothing useful came out of that one.

Tried calling Laticrete,but both times they called back guy let the phone ring twice before he hung up(and before I reached the phone).

Anyway I know hydroban is not acceptable over the reg drywall in moisture prone areas.

Question:

Can I go with hydroban over the top of the blue drywall?

If this doesnt work I am planning to kerdi board it.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

no :no:


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

any elaboration for future reference if asked?


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

drywall is not acceptable in wet area's and even though it is a technicality (i.e. no longer a wet area) it is still a gray area and not addressed by tcna as an acceptable install nor by laticrete. Shluter is the only company i know of that is confident in the fact of this technicality that they are not only warranty ing an install like this, they are even suggesting it. a mfgs install and warranty will trump tcna guidelines with accountability that the install is to standard 

on a side note, do all these red lines mean my spelling sucks?


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

what red lines? :/


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

some kind of auto spell check in google chrome.... 


good luck with your install, don't let JW bully you around :thumbup:


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

yea I will post some pics...chrome auto spell check is sweet.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

HO is not handy. There is no reason to install a VB behind drywall. The VB is there is catch moisture that penetrates the substrate keeping it from entering the framing cavity. In this case, once moisture penetrates the substrate (drywall), it's all over.

Further more, if you put any type of membrane on the walls, you've just created a double vapor barrier on either side of the drywall. 

Have the "handy" HO use his skills to remove everything and install CBU w/o a VB and you can then use that stinky Hydroban.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

angus242 said:


> HO is not handy. There is no reason to install a VB behind drywall. The VB is there is catch moisture that penetrates the substrate keeping it from entering the framing cavity. In this case, once moisture penetrates the substrate (drywall), it's all over.
> 
> Further more, if you put any type of membrane on the walls, you've just created a double vapor barrier on either side of the drywall.
> 
> Have the "handy" HO use his skills to remove everything and install CBU w/o a VB and you can then use that stinky Hydroban.


I was asking...:laughing:

He insulated walls so vapor barrier is kind of necessity..i will rip it out and kerdi board it myself


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

TheItalian204 said:


> He insulated walls so vapor barrier is kind of necessity..


Actually, it's not. Like I said, the membrane you apply for waterproofing is the only VB you need. You can VB behind the non-wet walls.

My preferred setup is blow-in cellulose, CBU, AquaDefense of NobleSeal, tile.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

good point, angus... stay away from the VB sandwich, although i think in his region in canada it is required on exterior walls......

edit: i type slow and you addressed that....


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

TheItalian204 said:


> ...If this doesnt work I am planning to kerdi board it.


Budget

Kerdi Board

Have you seen the price of that foam board?

Drywall is a no go in showers. Period.

If you want to cover it with Hydro Ban I'm sure it will be fine. But why not just paint it with a good oil paint and use mastic. You could grout the same day!!! That would be cheaper. (I'm kidding of course)

As a pro being hired to build something it's on you to know the right way. If you go sideways to do the client a favour it can come back to bite you. If your sued you can not say "I was trying to help save them some money."

What does your local building inspector have to say about drywall in Winnipeg showers? I bet you he says no. 

Rip out the drywall and use Denshield if your on a budget. Use a 1/3 container of liquid on the screw heads and seams. Budget. And much better than drywall.

Above minumum code and approved by your city hall.

JW


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

32.99$ for 8 foot sheet of kerdi at 1/4 inch.

Thanks for replies guys,thats why I am here,I needed to make sure its not acceptable.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

TheItalian204 said:


> 32.99$ for 8 foot sheet of kerdi at 1/4 inch.
> 
> Thanks for replies guys,thats why I am here,I needed to make sure its not acceptable.


You can not tile over 1/4" Kerdi Board unless it is fully set on a solid substrate. Something like 1/2" cement board.

3/8" Kerdi Board flexes like a mother on 16" centers.

1/2" Kerdi Board flexes too much on 16" centers.

Green EBoard.
Wonder Board.
Hardi Board.
Cement Board.

then waterproofing. Bullet proof.

Or just set the poly over the tub and install cement board. Skip the waterproofing and tape the seams. That's cheap. And code approved.

Just don't use drywall.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

lol I ve never used drywall as is(ok,thats a lie,first one I did for my buddy in his basement,I did use drywall)...:whistling:

But I will rip it out and assess as I go...could get lucky...12" studs would be nice.

But all in all CBU is definetly an option...together with hydro ban obviously...I am on budget,but its a small job and I am not too concerned materials affecting my rates....


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Rip out. Cbu @ $10.00 per sheet, 
1 gallon of Hydroban @ $75.00 you'll be covered and your budget handy HO will have a shower that will last way more than one year..


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dang, that stinky stuff _is_ expensive. 1 gal of AquaDefense = $45.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

On sale !


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Dang, that stinky stuff _is_ expensive. 1 gal of AquaDefense = $45.


If I could find it I would buy it...buddy brought some from WI.

Love the product,inquired,need to order a month before hand and price is jacked up.

So if had to use definetly AquaDefence>HydroBan>RedGuard


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

TheItalian204 said:


> If I could find it I would buy it...buddy brought some from WI.
> 
> Love the product,inquired,need to order a month before hand and price is jacked up.
> 
> So if had to use definetly AquaDefence>HydroBan>RedGuard


Redgaurd here $90.00/ gallon


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

my next will be HB because they claim 2 hour dry to flood!

i have used AD and it is great stuff

i have used red guard only on walls


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

world llc said:


> my next will be HB because they claim 2 hour dry to flood!
> 
> i have used AD and it is great stuff
> 
> i have used red guard only on walls


2 Hour flood test - no way.

First you need to coat your walls, burn the product in well and hit the entire surface. This dries so fast we don't count it as a step. Then we hit the entire surface right away with another coat.

That dries overnight. Then the second coat gets the mesh.

That dries at least overnight - then flood test.

No sense rushing these steps. Not if you plan to flood test your work.

You are not doing yourself any favours apply the product on two quick.

I have not noticed a difference in dry times between Aqua D and Hydro Ban.

I get less "Smell Complaints or comments" with Aqua D vs Hydro Ban but they both have the Polyimer Smell to them.

JW


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

lati sais 2 hours, and i should have had them elaborate.... we can assume after total color change of final coat.

not that you would, but just knowing you could

maybe a JW basement experiment?


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

world llc said:


> lati sais 2 hours, and i should have had them elaborate.... we can assume after total color change of final coat.
> 
> not that you would, but just knowing you could
> 
> maybe a JW basement experiment?


I flooded out over 14 gallons of Hydro Ban. Re read your spec sheets, you see that 2 hours refers to the second coat. Not the first.

I always use the reinforcing mesh and this further slows the cure times.

Hydro Ban is a great product, but rushing this process is a mistake.

JW


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Groutface,I was talking about AquaDefence,dont like redguard.it creates association with home depot.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

> Main Application – LATIcrETE®
> Hydro Ban™
> (See Illustration 3 and 5): Allow any pre-treated areas to dry to the touch. Apply a liberal coat of liquid^ with brush or roller over
> substrate including pre-treated areas. Flash membrane up over pre-treated coves and corners, so such areas have two layers of liquid. Let dry to the touch, approximately 1–2 hours at 70°F (21°C)
> ...


this is in the install instruction pdf


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Just calling like I see it.

Mock up a test before you go all in.

If your in a rush skip the reinforcing mesh, this is what slows down the cure times.

I wouldn't

JW


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Just calling like I see it.
> 
> Mock up a test before you go all in.
> 
> ...


I don't think I would go the min. Just saying acording to them it can be done

I wish I had some to test, alls I gots is some AD, RG, and some I think its called hydro barrier?


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Just calling like I see it.
> 
> Mock up a test before you go all in.
> 
> ...


Hey John, do you think it necessary to use the mesh tape that goes with the product or could you use green mould resistant meshtape? I'm using mapei hpg and that say to get a keralastic tape I think.....


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I think standard mesh tape has too big of holes in it for the liquid. You Canucks have access to any FibaFuse?


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

angus242 said:


> I think standard mesh tape has too big of holes in it for the liquid. You Canucks have access to any FibaFuse?


Who makes it? I usually use thinset, tape then waterproof after, but I heard,I think it was you saying to embedd it in the waterproofing.....wanted to try it!


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Saint Gobain...http://www.sg-adfors.com/Brands/FibaTape/FibaFuseDrywallTape

Our local box stores carry most of their tapes.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Saint Gobain...http://www.sg-adfors.com/Brands/FibaTape/FibaFuseDrywallTape
> 
> Our local box stores carry most of their tapes.


I've seen the logo somewhere I may have a roll......thanks again.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Groutface said:


> Hey John, do you think it necessary to use the mesh tape that goes with the product or could you use green mould resistant meshtape? I'm using mapei hpg and that say to get a keralastic tape I think.....


Mapei has a mesh for the HPG and it looks like stucco mesh on the 3' rolls. The Mapei product is a hair thinner than regular stucco mesh.

JW


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Groutface said:


> Who makes it? I usually use thinset, tape then waterproof after, but I heard,I think it was you saying to embedd it in the waterproofing.....wanted to try it!


Works a lot nicer than coating with thinset first......much thinner no "hump" on tapeline used redgaurd this time ,nice stuff.........thumbsup


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

angus242 said:


> Dang, that stinky stuff _is_ expensive. 1 gal of AquaDefense = $45.


Of course, Mapei doesn't offer to cover the shower for 25 years, either.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Bill, I just kid with Orlando.

I have never said a bad word about Laticrete. Although, at 15 years warranty for AquaDefense, it's not such a bad deal!


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm gonna try your aqua d tomorrow Angus. I will see how hard it it to get off my fingers when I'm done and I'll tell you if its as good as hydroban. lol.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

bluebird5 said:


> I'm gonna try your aqua d tomorrow Angus. I will see how hard it it to get off my fingers when I'm done and I'll tell you if its as good as hydroban. lol.


Your going to like it. We have used Gallons of each (Hydro Ban and Aqua Defence). The Aqua Defence does not smell as much as Hydro Ban but goes on darker for sure.

There is a big difference in coverage rates. Aqua Defence is requesting a 22 mil total coverage while Hydro Ban is wanting 15-22 mil per coat.

I find that three coats is needed for each product to get a good coverage rate. Did you get any of the MapeBand? This product rocks and makes an incredibly strong inside corner.

JW


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

No john. Not gonna do the mapeiband. It kinda defeats the purpose of using Aqua D instead of Hydroband it you got to buy something to go with it. The only reason i'm using the Aqua D is because its cheaper. I taped all my seams with and applied thinset so there are no gaps anywhere. Thought i had a pic of the finished product, but guess not. I also added another sheet of 3/4 ply on the original subfloor. 

I'm trying out the Latictete drain for the first time too. I like everything about it execept that the grate is 5 inches instead of 4. I got it for 82 bucks so I am happy with the price. 105 for the Schluter drain. I am gonna cut some 12x12's down the same size as the grate. But I like that it adjust be screwing instead of pushing the grate down to level like the schluter. I mean if you were done with the shower and someone stepped on the drain and pshed it down too low, How would you ever raise it back up flush with the tile?


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