# Truck & Tag vs. Hauler



## Duff (Apr 4, 2006)

It's been a while but I've been checking in perodically to learn and sometimes be entertained. Site is only getting better with time.

I'm finally going to retire from my civilian job with the Navy after 30 years on 2 March :thumbsup: and plan to put my CAT 416C to work in 2007 as part of my new career. I'll be advertising in our local paper and talking with contractors I know for any job leads. I'm fortunate that I can go slow and not have to be making money any time soon.

Here is a decision I've been wrestling with that I'd appreciate any of your thoughts on ... buying a dump and 20T tag trailer or finding a trailering company to haul my backhoe to the jobs as required. 

Eventually I will be buying but thought about holding off until I got some cash flow going. Given the cost of ownership of truck and trailer, registration, insurance, taxes and the fact that I'd need to go get my CDL Class A lisence ... makes expensing the cost of transportation look awful attractive. We also seem to have alot of dump trucks to sub out to for any material hauling if I needed that. The biggest down side seems to be freedom of mobility. Realize this approach is more often done for those that have big equipment not backhoes. Thoughts appreciated.
Duff


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## ctkiteboarding (Jul 10, 2006)

i can't express enough how nice it is to be able to get to and from jobs on my time table , thats the value , pure convienance, im kinda in between with my set up, my 12t is perfect for the TLB, but i hire out the larger moves, i will move up to a 20t this year


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## Cat385 (Nov 17, 2006)

It depends on how much you will be moving the machine. One good thing for you having a rubber tire machine you might be able to drive it from job to job if they are close enough. Your machine can also be moved with a pick up and gooseneck trailer. Do you have other equipment that will need to be moved? I guess the best idea would be to start off hiring someone until you get enough jobs to justify your own stuff.


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

I really couldn't imagine not having my own dump truck to pull my backhoe around.

With a backhoe you may have a lot of 1 or 2 day jobs so contracting the hauling out will get expensive, and if you have a dump truck you will have something else that can make you money. You could haul beauty bark, stone, etc. for homeowners.

When I got my first backhoe about 30 years ago, I had a 1976 Chevy C-60 flatbed that I pulled the trailer with. Wasn't very fast and slow on the hills with a 350 V-8 and 4 spd with split axle but it got me there. I very soon bought a old Forest Service GMC 5 yard dump truck with a huge V-6 and air brakes, still slow on the hills but it got me there and I could haul in some rock and dirt.

When we bought out first excavator a JD 690, we had to contract out the hauling. It gets expensive real fast, 150 for a short hop, 300 for a longer one, etc., and inconvenient. You start turning down jobs if they aren’t long enough to cover the transport costs, because transporting back and forth is about 1 days income, etc, etc. We eventually bought a Peterbilt tractor and Trail King detachable gooseneck low boy, which eventually brought us more money doing hauling for other people. And we did a lot of 1 day jobs like digging out some stumps, etc. for homeowners, and with out our own truck and low boy I would have missed out on a easy 500-700 for that day.

You should start out small and just get a 5 yard dump truck, and the trucks that have been built in the last 10 years or so are a lot better than what I started with. The newer ones have some nice diesels and tranny combo’s, etc. Unless you can find a good buy on a 10-12 yard dump truck.


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## fhdesign (Jan 17, 2007)

Duff,
I'm in the same boat, until you have a customer base or know more about what type of work you're going to have, it would be really tuff to know what kind of truck & trailer to buy. So I would hire out the moving, as long as you have reliable people in your area.
Jon


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Duff,

It's good to hear from you again. I'm glad things are progressing as you planned. About 26 years ago I made an attempt to get away from the construction business. It only led me astray for 2 years and right back into what I really liked doing. I didn't want to go back to the family business and moved 80 miles away which made that impossible.

Thinking how I would go back into the business I did a lot of number crunching and planning. One of the plans I worked through was buying a backhoe and starting off with just it. I have known 5 men who were 1 man, 1 type machine companies that I would say were successful. They had 3 things in common. 

1.They were very good, very good at what they did. They knew the work they did thoroughly. Their operating skill was fine tuned with the peice of equipment they owned. They knew the machine they owned as to it's ability and the mechanic's thoroughly.

2. They were curious, innovative and honest people. Most were not known to be nice or friendly but each one would help everyone they knew in anyway they could. Even competitors.

3. None of them owned a truck and trailer to move their equipment. They all owned a 2 or 3 of that 1 type of equipment. 

Duff I went through all of that only to point out if you are going to be doing this for another 10 to 12 years? Maybe weigh the cost of owning and operating a truck and trailer and the hasseles. Against a possible second machine. A second machine that can be moved while one works. Diversify with attacments and buckets that fit both machines. Become very good at what you do. Give great customer service. There are so many contractors that are giving up on the TLB for excavators that would hire a conpetent subcontractor when the need arises. 

Just a thought. Good Luck on your endevours!


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

Cat385 said:


> Your machine can also be moved with a pick up and gooseneck trailer.


 

I think that would be pushing the limit no? His machine is over 22,000 lbs. At minimum he would need a something larger than your typical 1 ton truck. 

As KGMC stated, having a Dump Truck to tow with will be very useful. If you want to start small you could easily get away with a F-550 or 650, but if you are wanting to grow this business you might end up with an excavator. I fould that a F-750 6 wheel dump w/air to the rear @ 33,000 gross was sufficient to pull a Cat 315 on a 20 ton tag. And having that 8 yd. dump was great. I was always able to get my material when I needed it, but even better, I could haul away dirt, rock, demo from a job or pick up a few yards of blacktop to patch a road or driveway cut I made.

There are some great deals out there on Used Dump Trucks and once you have it, you can also advertise to move equipment, deliver topsoil, gravel or what have you. Don't shy away from a 10 wheeler if you come across a good deal, but I would stay away from a tri axle until you need to start moving a lot of material or have very big equipment. 

Larry


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## Duff (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks Nick for that perspective and everyone else for their thoughts. Thinking through these types of decisions with input from others who "have been there" is so helpful. Its is amazing how beneficial these message boards are.


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## Driftwood (Feb 15, 2004)

*In n. ca. Nationwide auctions*

GOOD used 22ft. tag trailers go for $3 to$4000 each month.

these are 12 to 14 ton .plenty of capacity for a hoe


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Duff, 

Let me say again good luck and Happy Retirement. 

Your not that old are you? Any questions PM me if you want. Your not that far away? I can maybe get Joe to do a road trip?


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## Cat385 (Nov 17, 2006)

Digger1799 said:


> I think that would be pushing the limit no? His machine is over 22,000 lbs. At minimum he would need a something larger than your typical 1 ton truck.
> 
> 22,000 is the max weight for a 416E. Yes It would be borderline. It was just an idea if he already had a 1 ton. The dump and tag is the best way. It still comes down to having the jobs.


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## 4theroc (Jan 28, 2007)

Hey if u need a dumptruck, I got a 1991 topkick dumptruck with 31,000lb gvwr its got a 3116 cat diesel ,electical hookups for the trailer. It doesnt have air hookups. ITs got 78,000 miles on it. If you want to look at it go to the tools for sale forum on here i have picture's of it.


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## ctkiteboarding (Jul 10, 2006)

heres a pic of the stepup im looking at to be able to pull a 20t tag,

i dont want a triaxle , mostly because maneuverablity and cost, 

with something like this you you can haul your machine and grow into a 15t excavator as well as move other guys stuff 

im a believer of getting as large a piece of equipment as possible , i always seem to end up needing it 

good luck :thumbsup:


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## 4theroc (Jan 28, 2007)

was that truck used to haul asphalt? thats a real short wheel base. easy to manuever to. LOoks like a 12 foot body on it


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Cat385 said:


> I guess the best idea would be to start off hiring someone until you get enough jobs to justify your own stuff.


I agree. License, tags and insurance are not cheap. Wait until you get your business growing and have steady money coming in.


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## Duff (Apr 4, 2006)

Nick, hell I'd travel west to meet the notorious jmic/denick duo!  

I'm 51, no spring chicken but I've kept myself in pretty good shape. It will be, God willing, another 15 years before I retire, retire. That's what the wife's plan is anyway.

My CAT weighs 7 t. I mentioned getting a 20 t trailer in case I added a small excavator (ie CAT 312 which is 15 t) to the "fleet".:whistling 

There are good advantages to both ways on this. A big factor is finding a reliable hauler and whether or not I can get jobs that keep me in one place for a little while. When you crunch the numbers, expensing hauls vs. costs of ownership ... it is an interesting exercise. I like the idea of focusing on the piece of equipment I'm most interested in.

The other constraint on me for a little while is that I do not have my CDL Class A (I've had a Class B). Anyone pulling anything over 10,000#s has to have one, correct?
Duff


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I'll throw my coins in. 

I started with a TLB in 1986, I drove it to and from MANY job sites. If it were a long distance I would hire out. The rental companies here will move any machine, their guys are experienced, have the keys, know how it is to be loaded and secured. They have insurance and are not all that expensive.

I purchased a small dump truck in 1988 then a trailer in 1989, so I went almost 3 years moving around that way.

I will say it is much more convenient to have my own trucks and trailers. I charge a mobilization fee which is worked into the price of my jobs. The amount charged does not  usually cover all the expenses involved with the move, it's more of a "break even" thing than a money maker.

I would say your best bet is to locate a couple sources for moving the equipment for you. More than one source will give you an option if the other can't get it done for what ever reason.

Find out what it will cost you to have them handle the moves, and build that into your pricing.
As your business grows and you get some funds in the bank and a customer base, then start thinking about investing in trucks and trailers.

As far as the CDL goes, you can drive a strait truck under 26,000 lbs. on the standard license, but anyime you through a trailer into the equation that is more than 10,000 lbs. you must have a CDL-A.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

What kind of jobs are you looking at doing? If you doing jobs that are atleast 1 day, you could proably manage using a hauler. I know there are some guys that will just move equipment between 5pm and 7am. If there is one like that in your area it could work out great for you. Now if you are only doing half day jobs, it might not work as well.

Matt


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## ctkiteboarding (Jul 10, 2006)

yea thats my biggest issue w /the hired moves , the 1/2 1 day job for 800 or so , you cant really drop 400 on moving fees and justify doing the job for 30 ,40 per hr 

if the budget does not allow for you to get a small dump ,like the one i posted or even abit smaller ,
then you have no choice 
but if you are able to invest and get your truck trailer ,the by all means do,

get the class A and grab up as many small jobs for the TLB as you can,

excavation means heavy equipment ,the guy with the right tools will get the jobs and make more profit , bottom line ,

thier is nothing like seeing another guys truck/trailer loaded with cln equipment matching colors etc. that makes me want to get my ship tighter ,
professinal image goes along way esp. in the dirt business


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

Duff said:


> My CAT weighs 7 t. I mentioned getting a 20 t trailer in case I added a small excavator (ie CAT 312 which is 15 t) to the "fleet".:whistling
> 
> The other constraint on me for a little while is that I do not have my CDL Class A (I've had a Class B). Anyone pulling anything over 10,000#s has to have one, correct?
> Duff



When you are ready to look at an excavator, you should look at nothing smaller than the 314/315 so you can dig a typical foundation. Anything smaller is a waste as you Already Have the backhoe that would work just as good. My 33k lb 6 wheeler with a 6spd tranny and a 225hp cat was capable of moving a 314 with no problem unless I was on a huge hill, then ot just went a bit slower. 

I really found that in my area I was able to find quiet a bit of work with my dump truck. I stockpiled all my dirt and I would advertise for Sand & Gravel, Topsoil and Fill For Sale. I used the local gravel pits as my supply yard. If your still slow with the dump, Advertise for Rubbish Removal or hook up with a local Landscape supplier to assist with their deliveries. Pass your name around and you will really start getting calls. Around here, I know more guys with just Dump Trucks who make their living just hauling materials. With a maching and a truck, you should be able to pick up quite a bit of work. But until you are comfortable, slap a plate on the backhoe and drive it from job to job.


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