# employees



## P construction (Jul 14, 2006)

What the [email protected]*^ is wrong with help
I swear some peaple don't want to do hands on labor 
6 peaple in 4 months. 
It's getting worst do peaple agree , I pay well not hard on them I just don't know 
Some think the grass is greener on the other side 
They don't see the behind the sceens what it takes to run a company 
but they think you don't work being the boss you just talk and drive from site to site and put the tool pouch on for 7 hrs instead of 9 we'll they don't see for those 2 hrs your running & dealing with things like a chicken with your head cut off.

Just really Pissed off today got to vent 

please join the frustration


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

Breathe in .....out......in.......ahhhh. It will be ok.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Welcome to the real world....I am still 2 guys short, and I also pay well...


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

So, why exactly are they leaving? Do you conduct an exit interview, either formally or informally? If you don't know exactly, you're going to continue to spin your wheels.


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

joasis said:


> Welcome to the real world....I am still 2 guys short, and I also pay well...



Then quit hiring midgets! :laughing: :laughing:


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## JPV123 (Sep 14, 2005)

Don't get me started on this. I don't get a chance for an exit interview because they just disappear. I never hear from them again. Here today gone tomorrow. I've had guys disappear and leave their tools. Some worked for a day or two then disappeared and never called to get paid (free labor). I pay well, I'm a nice guy, willing to give bonuses on certian jobs, I'm not to hard on them, and I'm flexible (to a point). They have a great opportunity since I'm a new company. Paid holidays, paid vacation after 6 months which I never had to give due to them leaving b4 6 months. I'm sure if we all had the right guys we could really build this business and make alot of $$$. It :furious: me up!!!


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## JPV123 (Sep 14, 2005)

And another thing:

WHY DON'T THEY [email protected]%&$NG CALL?? I never hear from them. At least call and tell me you quit. Then again maybe they are in jail or dead. Actually one guy did call. His first day he calls me to tell me his babysitter just arrived and he is leaving now (8am). I told him I will go to the supply house and pick up a few things then meet him on the job. Wow nice boss. first day late and the boss understands. well, I'm still waiting for him to show up. It's been about a month. I don't even bother calling them any more.


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## Paul Burns (Jan 17, 2006)

JPV123 said:


> And another thing:
> 
> WHY DON'T THEY [email protected]%&$NG CALL?? I never hear from them. At least call and tell me you quit. Then again maybe they are in jail or dead. Actually one guy did call. His first day he calls me to tell me his babysitter just arrived and he is leaving now (8am). I told him I will go to the supply house and pick up a few things then meet him on the job. Wow nice boss. first day late and the boss understands. well, I'm still waiting for him to show up. It's been about a month. I don't even bother calling them any more.


Do you have, and do you hire Hispanics? When we moved in that direction around 1994 or so, it changed our business for the better, BIG time, and has helped us as much as any single thing that we have ever done, or changed. 
We still hire all other races, including white Americans, but they almost NEVER last more than a few days, just like you are talking about.
With Hispanics it is just the opposite. They DEMAND work, and the only way they leave is if you don't treat them right, or you don't have enough work. It was a GREAT turnaround from the previous 12 years or so and ging through EXACTLY the same headaches that you describe.

Paul
p.s. A giant roofing salesman (biggest in the ocuntry I believe) told me last year that 98% of the roofs being install ed America today are done by Hispanic labor. I think the same will be, or already is in most other trades. They are already a big force in the painting and drywall trades, which I am most familiar with.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Xxxxxxxx

Edited


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Paul Burns said:


> Do you have, and do you hire Hispanics? When we moved in that direction around 1994 or so, it changed our business for the better, BIG time, and has helped us as much as any single thing that we have ever done, or changed.
> We still hire all other races, including white Americans, but they almost NEVER last more than a few days, just like you are talking about.
> With Hispanics it is just the opposite. They DEMAND work, and the only way they leave is if you don't treat them right, or you don't have enough work. It was a GREAT turnaround from the previous 12 years or so and ging through EXACTLY the same headaches that you describe.
> 
> ...


Is this your $2,500 secret? Everyone knows they work well for a lesser pay, even the legal ones work for less pay than they are worth. HOWEVER of all the ones I have worked with in previos jobs NONE even came close to having an eye for the quality I demand.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

RobertCDF said:


> ... of all the ones I have worked with in previos jobs NONE even came close to having an eye for the quality I demand.


Maybe that's the secret? To become really successful, you need to cut your standards. I dunno... just thinking out loud.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Contractors who hire illegals should be EXECUTED . . . :whistling


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## Paul Burns (Jan 17, 2006)

RobertCDF said:


> Is this your $2,500 secret? Everyone knows they work well for a lesser pay, even the legal ones work for less pay than they are worth. HOWEVER of all the ones I have worked with in previos jobs NONE even came close to having an eye for the quality I demand.


Every person on every job gets paid exactly what they are WORTH regardless of race, religion, etc.. To date our highest one weeks pay was to ONE hispanic painter who EARNED $2300.00

That's basically how I job cost anymore. If the painters checks aren't for 1000.00 each or so, we probably have a problem. If they are, no problems, all gravy.

Paul


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Paul Burns said:


> Every person on every job gets paid exactly what they are WORTH regardless of race, religion, etc.. To date our highest one weeks pay was to ONE hispanic painter who EARNED $2300.00
> 
> That's basically how I job cost anymore. If the painters checks aren't for 1000.00 each or so, we probably have a problem. If they are, no problems, all gravy.
> 
> Paul


Have his SS number on file? Is it the same as the other 5 you have on file? Gads.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

No problem paying based upon the job and performace. In fact the best way of paying I think. Then you know EXACTLY what yours costs are. HOWEVER when given this kind of pay scale some people will just blow and go and it looks like crap. My work is impecable. I have personally inspected MANY other deck contractors work in my area. Usually with them present. I have not seen the same quality that I produce yet. (And these guys charge more than me. But that is due to the excesive advertising they do) I have worked with enough others in previous jobs (ALL races) and I have seen time and time again "close enough" "Cant see it from my house" and like. This is not ok and would get you tossed right away if you worked for me. Getting people that have the same eye for detail is very hard. I know only one... and that is my brother but he is on a framing crew right now that pays him more than I can pay him. So I cant steal him yet.


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## PainterPaul (Aug 17, 2006)

P construction, and others,

4 in 6 months… For what it’s worth, people are leaving for a reason. Blaming the employee is going to wind you up broke. Also, whether or not they see or understand what it takes to run a business is irrelevant to the extreme. Said in another way, your employees are a reflection of you.

Whatever the circumstances, you and you alone create your present and future, and whatever happens good or bad in your business, it is directly related to you and no one else. Either take the time to train these people yourself and let them know they are part of a team, or start working alone or get into another business.

As to hiring Hispanics because the average American isn’t capable… again, a huge window into the bosses attitude.


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## Paul Burns (Jan 17, 2006)

PainterPaul said:


> P construction, and others,
> 
> 4 in 6 months… For what it’s worth, people are leaving for a reason. Blaming the employee is going to wind you up broke. Also, whether or not they see or understand what it takes to run a business is irrelevant to the extreme. Said in another way, your employees are a reflection of you.
> 
> ...


I agree with MOST everything you say. I would recommend the book Gung Ho as far as employees go and how to handle them and your whole company.

I did not say that Americans are not capable. I stated that we hire ALL races, creeds, colors, etc, and from EXPERIENCE, Hispanics have PROVEN to be the best to date. That is data after 30 years!

We have STACKS/100's of testimonials with the painters names on each individual job. It is EASY to see WHO or where the painters origins are from.

Paul


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## Debookkeeper (Jul 23, 2006)

Paul Burns said:


> Every person on every job gets paid exactly what they are WORTH regardless of race, religion, etc.. To date our highest one weeks pay was to ONE hispanic painter who EARNED $2300.00
> 
> That's basically how I job cost anymore. If the painters checks aren't for 1000.00 each or so, we probably have a problem. If they are, no problems, all gravy.
> 
> Paul


Just curious - do you w-2 these guys and take out appropriate withholding taxes or 1099?


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

I would add my 2 cents however I just added another person to my terminated file today. I am going to have to buy cheaper Employee folders or re-use them after a while.


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

JPV123 said:


> And another thing:
> 
> WHY DON'T THEY [email protected]%&$NG CALL?? I never hear from them. At least call and tell me you quit. Then again maybe they are in jail or dead. Actually one guy did call. His first day he calls me to tell me his babysitter just arrived and he is leaving now (8am). I told him I will go to the supply house and pick up a few things then meet him on the job. Wow nice boss. first day late and the boss understands. well, I'm still waiting for him to show up. It's been about a month. I don't even bother calling them any more.


I had a guy last summer do the same thing.:blink: 

All gun-ho during the interview, then no show.

I stopped trying to figure it out. JUST TAKE CARE OF YOUR GOOD ONES and they will take care of you.:thumbup:


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## Paul Burns (Jan 17, 2006)

Debookkeeper said:


> Just curious - do you w-2 these guys and take out appropriate withholding taxes or 1099?


Yes, most are treated just like any hourly employee.

Lately, we have started usings subs also. Lately meaning he last few years.

Paul
p.s Loved your post about the what the future holds!


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

P Construction, just curious, are the guys you are hiring young (say early twenty's). Wondering because there seems to be a real problem happening in both the States and Canada. The young people don't seem to have a clue what a work ethic is and don't realize that sometimes you have to break a sweat to make a living. All I know is that most of us Forty year olds (or older) on this forum are still willing to jump on a jackhammer or sling drywall to get the job done. Young guys these days have been pampered too much and don't realize what a hard day of work is (although there are exceptions - so don't jump on me you young guys who have a clue) :laughing: !!!

The GC I work for has supplied me helpers from his Business Furniture division and I've gone through about twenty guys before I found two that were actually willing to carry drywall or help me dispose of demolition debris (most of the others found an excuse to cut the day short). The one guy just wants the hours and the other actually wants to learn about the renovation/building aspect of the business and he's my favourite as far as helpers (he's always asking questions and wants to learn and has a great attitude)... A guy like that I'm willing to teach and appreciate him for his efforts to learn and work hard... They seem few and far between these days!!!


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## P construction (Jul 14, 2006)

theworx said:


> P Construction, just curious, are the guys you are hiring young (say early twenty's). Wondering because there seems to be a real problem happening in both the States and Canada. The young people don't seem to have a clue what a work ethic is and don't realize that sometimes you have to break a sweat to make a living. All I know is that most of us Forty year olds (or older) on this forum are still willing to jump on a jackhammer or sling drywall to get the job done. Young guys these days have been pampered too much and don't realize what a hard day of work is (although there are exceptions - so don't jump on me you young guys who have a clue) :laughing: !!!
> 
> The GC I work for has supplied me helpers from his Business Furniture division and I've gone through about twenty guys before I found two that were actually willing to carry drywall or help me dispose of demolition debris (most of the others found an excuse to cut the day short). The one guy just wants the hours and the other actually wants to learn about the renovation/building aspect of the business and he's my favourite as far as helpers (he's always asking questions and wants to learn and has a great attitude)... A guy like that I'm willing to teach and appreciate him for his efforts to learn and work hard... They seem few and far between these days!!!




Yes they are young 
with the same attitude that most are saying already to go in the interveiw set ready to go. Quote me if i am wrong but i feel these guys after one week of hard work out in the blazing heat with water brack as needed, the reality of (work ) sinks in and that is the issue and the problem


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## PainterPaul (Aug 17, 2006)

Paul,

Sorry, I could have worded that differently. I think the reason it came out that way is because of the context of the thread, which is more or less: “can’t find any good help these days”.

I have nothing against Hispanics who work hard. I have nothing against people who hire Hispanics… so long as they are legal that is. And they don’t have to be illegal to charge a little less and work harder, either.

The subject of illegal workers is another, very charged matter and people (myself included) get emotional. So I apologize.

Paul


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

They also don't seem to have the respect to even inform you that they will not show up or just don't show up for work one day and you never see them again??? That's like us signing a contract to do a job for a customer and schedule a start date (after they've taken the time and picked you over three other contractors) and you don't show up or at least call. It makes me a bit nervous as to where our future lies with the good attitudes and ethics many young people lack these days.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

theworx said:


> They also don't seem to have the respect to even inform you that they will not show up or just don't show up for work one day and you never see them again??? That's like us signing a contract to do a job for a customer and schedule a start date (after they've taken the time and picked you over three other contractors) and you don't show up or at least call. It makes me a bit nervous as to where our future lies with the good attitudes and ethics many young people lack these days.


Well I can see one upside to the lazy young generation we have right now... They wont be your competition. Now once the old guys that dont "need a license" "or insurance" "I have 900 years experiance" die off we will be able to raise our prices even more.


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

_


theworx said:



P Construction, just curious, are the guys you are hiring young (say early twenty's). Wondering because there seems to be a real problem happening in both the States and Canada. The young people don't seem to have a clue what a work ethic is and don't realize that sometimes you have to break a sweat to make a living. All I know is that most of us Forty year olds (or older) on this forum are still willing to jump on a jackhammer or sling drywall to get the job done. Young guys these days have been pampered too much and don't realize what a hard day of work is (although there are exceptions - so don't jump on me you young guys who have a clue) :laughing: !!!

Click to expand...

_


theworx said:


> When we were their age we used to walk to work 20 miles (uphill)
> while carrying the tools in our backs in freezing temperatures....
> 
> I have no problem with young workers.
> ...


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## Paul Burns (Jan 17, 2006)

PainterPaul said:


> Paul,
> 
> Sorry, I could have worded that differently. I think the reason it came out that way is because of the context of the thread, which is more or less: “can’t find any good help these days”.
> 
> ...


If this is directed at me, thank you! Real men apologize, admit when they are wrong, and even cry sometimes. Oh, and I will even have a quiche from time to time.

Thanks again,
Paul


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## supercrew (May 15, 2006)

Good thread to rant on....:furious: i also think the 20somthing generation lacks in the work ethic field...i started with this NEW company with 7 "laborers/wannabes" to train all 20ish white male americans...the lack of motivation, inability to retain knowledge, failure to follow instructions and the lack of respect they give makes my hope for our future fade a little everyday....

guy #1....week 2 "still" building exterior walls on a cutup custom. i see "joe" completely nailing down the second sheet of obs on the wall. i ask "u square that" he says (like its some kinda game)"no"......im like WTF joe, this is ur 3rd wall today and the 3rd time ive had to make sure you squared it...rip it off....joe doesnt take constuctive critisism well...joes gone...

guy #2....i needed 2 boards, each a different lenght....8 cuts and 1,237 acorns on this tree later, i get my boards...moe just carries boards now...

guy #3......buildin a baby gable on the ground....larry nails the lookouts on....3/4-2" off the x on the sister truss...larry why did you even bother to put the x there???? 

curly and shemp are smart...just lazy with a lackadaisical additude...:whistling 

laural and hardy got sent to the concrete crew...:clap: 

i have no experience with illegals nor do i want any....but i did once watch a crew of 7 mexican/??? roofers shingle a 3,000 sq/ft house in 7+ hours....(all gabled)....no breaks and a 20 minute lunch which they heated over a can of sturno:laughing: 

BTW...all great opinions here and the GF says shes tired of hearin mine to go tell someone else... 

and to set matters straight....supercrew refers to the f-150 i drive...


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## willbone3 (Apr 2, 2006)

Tom R said:


> Contractors who hire illegals should be EXECUTED . . . :whistling


:notworthy :gunsmilie: :tank: :ban: :hang: :2guns: :gun_bandana:


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## bevs (Apr 29, 2006)

Thats why I work alone. I don't make real big money, like some of you guys say you do, but I don't have all the problems either. I paid good too. Even picked one guy up at home, and dropped him off in the evening. Called in sick to often. Some people just do not want to all work the time. Bookkeeping is a lot less complicated too. To each his own. As far as the other part of this forum, If I said what I felt, I'm sure it would be edited!


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## PainterPaul (Aug 17, 2006)

Paul Burns,

Yes… directed specifically to you. 

Thank you for the cordial responses.


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## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

What do you guys consider paying well.......I am 21, and used to frame for a while.......I work very hard.....am proud of my work(don't like to do it the wrong way....or the "fast way", if you know what i mean)....I'm an old farm boy, so I know how to hurry and how to work hard......I'm also pretty smart, and pick up on things.....I was the one laying out walls for the houses with the foreman(after a month of working there, and having no prior experience)......and, I was getting paid 9 bucks an hr.....no benifits, not even OT.......just wondering if I was getting short changed or what......


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Bradracer18 said:


> not even OT.......just wondering if I was getting short changed or what......


Yep, not paying overtime is illegal for hourly employees. You not only were getting short-changed, but you were being robbed.


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## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

ah thats a bummer.......yah I was hourly......I mean we worked probably 10-12hr days......all week.....for months......darn......


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Send him a thank-you note. Folks like that ought to know when they've been busted.


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## ProPaints (Sep 7, 2006)

Sounds like your working family members to me.


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## parkway2328 (Jul 4, 2006)

Hire a union contractor. Total pay and benefits = $72.00/hr and the job gets done right the first time


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## bevs (Apr 29, 2006)

Thats a big Amen parkway


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