# Gable end collapses.



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

AAC being the light weight block?


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> AAC being the light weight block?


It is.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> AAC being the light weight block?


Yep. The stuff floats in water which is weird.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Depending on the grade, type of AAC, the strength is also different in different directions depending on the orientation when the "loaf of bread" is oriented before slicing. The processes vary wildly and they can produce different densities depending on the market. That is why the use standards are different everywhere and most are non bearing except for 1 and 2 story structures.

Most use a non-conventional mortar (for the U.S.) and much thinner mortar joint.

They can float or the cheaper types will sink, but the product is fascinating in its variable properties.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I've never seen or heard mention of them except on this site


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

AAC is generally a European product that has been used for decades. Europeans (like most of the world) look on wood as inferior/temporary construction, so AAC, hollow clay tile, brick and concrete block are preferred. Many of the plants producing AAC are located adjacent to large power plants and can use the waste heat and fly ash along with other local materials (ground silica sand, cement, lime, aluminum powder depending on the process) and produce a very stable lightweight building material on a 24/7 basis, but is essentially a solid block with strength and insulation properties that can be controlled. It can be cut with a hand saw, but it has no cores or way to pick it up or handle it easily.

A few plants, based on European processes, were built, but it was like swimming upstream because of the American preference for lightweight stick construction since we had to find a use for the trees when they were cut down to clear land in the old days.

The AAC plants are very sophisticated and almost identical through out Europe and some of Russia. When I was in Russia at a plant, someone asked me if I wanted to see the grinding ball mill, I said "I know where it is because I was in identical plants in Poland, Czech Republic and Germany". The Finnish/Swedish plants are somewhat different.

It is just a different construction material that has been used successfully in many areas.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

Is the YTONG or something like that one brand in Germany?


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*aac*

Aac block producers:http://www.toolbase.org/TechInventory/TechManufacturers.aspx?ContentDetailID=690


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

Inner sting.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

cleveman -

Ytong is a German company that has been involved in some plants in the U.S. They are heavy on their name recognition, support and good technical support. They even sell saws and the thinset type mortar used and everything is delivered in yellow poly with a big YTONG printed on the packaging. In other words, they sell a building system and not just a product.

Hebel(sp?) is also another German company. I think both companies produce wall panels. I saw some (from a Hebel plant?) in FLA that were used as interior partitions in homes. They were set after the trusses were set and the house was dried in. That shows the light weight of the wall panels that can be finished with joint tape and a skim coat.

Most of the European systems are not branded, but the products are virtually the same since the products can be made/wire cut in different shapes and sizes.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*house*

Mason builds own home with aac blocks.





http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-01-13/business/0601130218_1_insulation-blocks-minimum-wood


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The problem frequently involved in all masonry construction (brick, block, AAC, etc.) is how the wall works after it is built. That on top of the proverbial question - "Does mortar hold masonry units together or keep them apart?"


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

fjn said:


> Mason builds own home with aac blocks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting link but no pictures.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Dick you may know this. I was on a job in england where they had a machine that pumped a resin type stuff between the bricks as they laid them. bascily replaced the mortar and was meant to be much stronger and faster. never have seen or heard about it since then. it was on a government project for a school.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*pics.*



lukachuki said:


> Interesting link but no pictures.







Here you go!



http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...QMzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iwgGAAAAIBAJ&pg=6360,8781516


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

fjn said:


> Here you go!
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...QMzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iwgGAAAAIBAJ&pg=6360,8781516


Those aren't color!


 
Just bustin yo chops.

Thanks Man!


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

lukachuki said:


> Those aren't color!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Here,use these, :laughing::laughing:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cra...gX4sIH4Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=613


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## pappaking (Jan 31, 2013)

*Canopiesuk canopy carport collapse*

Hi All.

I saw this on the news and found your posts on Google.
The canopy carport is made by canopiesuk Ltd.
There is nothing new about these collapses.
If you search Google for COLLAPSED CANOPIES or
COLLAPSED CARPORTS you will find safety warnings sent to the schools
and many images of theses collapsing.
Here are some of the modes of failure.
The GRP cantilever beams fail my snapping.
The steel brackets bends and or snaps.
The wall fixings fail in tension. 
The outer and sometimes the inner wall collapse due to the overturning effect.
100 of these canopies in the uk have failed from wind and or snow loading.


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## pappaking (Jan 31, 2013)

*Collapsed canopy carport and wall*

Hi All.
Hi all
I saw this on the news and found you posts on Google.
The canopy carport is made by canopiesuk Ltd.
There is nothing new about these collapses.
If you search Google for COLLAPSED CANOPIES or
COLLAPSED CARPORTS you will find safety warnings sent the schools
and many images of theses collapsing.
Here are some of the modes of failure.
The GRP cantilever beams fail my snapping.
The steel brackets bends and or snaps.
The wall fixings fail in tension. 
The outer and sometimes the inner wall collapse due to the overturning effect.
100 of these canopies in the uk have failed from wind and or snow loading.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

why are they allowing them to be used still?


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Its not the canopy per se'. Its the wall. A wall should be able to support a piece of tin even with a massive snow load of 2 inches....


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

but the canopies aren't attached to the wall, just the veneer.


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## pappaking (Jan 31, 2013)

*canopy collapse on gable end*



JBM said:


> Its not the canopy per se'. Its the wall. A wall should be able to support a piece of tin even with a massive snow load of 2 inches....


I can assure you that the wall is not the cause of the collapse. If you search collapsed canopies on Google you will see many collapsed canopies in the uk. Or search collapsed carports. If you check the met office uk reports of wind and snow you will appreciate that the cantilever canopy will have had drifting snow on it. Basic structural engineering will tell you this. 100’s have failed. 100’s more will.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

He's right that there's more of them.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

And they're all just attached to the veneer by expansion bolts?

Do they not have 4x4's in the UK? or steel posts?


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## pappaking (Jan 31, 2013)

*collapsed canopies in the uk*

A 20mm dia expansion bolt in average face brickwork will give a tensile pull out load of 11KN (1.08 tons). According to the fixing manufacture specs. On site testing give load of over 20KN. The problem is the over turning effect of the cantilever load. This make the brick bond fail. 1000,s of these cantilever canopies have not failed due to being correctly designed and installed. In many cases the manufacturer provides removable snow posts which can be fixed on in the event of a forecast of snow, this turns the snow load into an axle loading (up and down) whist still giving the advantages of no post the rest of the time. Many carports and canopies in the uk have posts, many of which have failed. It’s just a case of good and bad in the same contracting industry.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh, yeah, if the carport anchors simply pulled out and the carport fell it would suck, damaging a car maybe even hurting someone, I guess the possibility of killing someone. But causing the veneer the veneer to come crashing down is way worse. 

Having posts that come down in case of snow is good, but it means that a homeowner is responsible for making sure to extend them. If someone is on vacation, or someone buys the house and isn't made aware, or if someone just doesn't do it because they think, bah that's not needed, then the posts are useless. At the least these things should have a 45 brace back to the house that attaches better than 1/2 way to get rid of the hinge effect or have permanent posts to the ground. Homeowners shouldn't be responsible for making sure that walls don't come crashing down


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

pappaking said:


> I can assure you that the wall is not the cause of the collapse. If you search collapsed canopies on Google you will see many collapsed canopies in the uk. Or search collapsed carports. If you check the met office uk reports of wind and snow you will appreciate that the cantilever canopy will have had drifting snow on it. Basic structural engineering will tell you this. 100’s have failed. 100’s more will.


I agree the canopy was not installed correctly, but you mean to tell me it is acceptable to you to have a brick veneer attached to a block wall that falls over due to a couple inches of snow on a small canopy?

No, the engineering on that gable was bad, the blocks needed to be poured, with steel. How else would a gable end like that stay up? A couple nails into the framing lol.....:no:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

JBM said:


> I agree the canopy was not installed correctly, but you mean to tell me it is acceptable to you to have a brick veneer attached to a block wall that falls over due to a couple inches of snow on a small canopy?
> 
> No, the engineering on that gable was bad, the blocks needed to be poured, with steel. How else would a gable end like that stay up? A couple nails into the framing lol.....:no:


The thing is i have never seen a gable end come down without a canopy on. I guess they were never designed to handle such a load.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Until this ive never seen a gable end pop off. That could have killed someone.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

The 4 inch block/cavity/brick is a common construction method on housing here. I have seen a few come down in wind, especially in the hurricane of 87. I have seen a few come down on site before they were even finished.
Nowadays the walls are strapped to the rafters like this, which has mainly stopped the problem.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I remember that Hurricane. It created a lot of firewood in Germany. How often do those come along? Can't say I've seen or heard of anything like that before or since.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

They don't come very often round here. Did make a lot of work in the trade though.
This was the famous weather forecast from Michael Fish that he never lived down. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqs1YXfdtGE
That night we had the worst storm for 300 years.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

We like that British humor here-"he was naked from the shirt tails down with a stick of celery up his arse."

I remember all the piles of nice beech logs, and they were spraying water on them to keep them from rotting or to keep the bugs out of them. I think they were still doing this in the early '90's. Of course you couldn't give the wood away. Entire forests were laid down. People stored enough firewood under tarps to last them for 20 years.


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