# WTF?



## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

I was looking at cars again for the ole lady and she, as well as I, have always been under the impression that a used vehicle will always take the initial hit. Was trying to talk her into palisades again. A new limited at a local dealer goes for about 47k. Pretty damn spendy but, exact same model with 6k miles and two years older, goes for 51k. This seems absolutely insane.

Just one more thing I'd never think I'd see in my lifetime. Past two years have been full of first times...


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Simple supply & demand at work. With no chips available, no new cars available.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

And now some cars that are available are 3-5000 over list price


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

I know a couple guys who have found vehicles online by shopping different dealerships in other parts of the country. One buddy, bought online & the dealer drove it to him & he paid airfare home for the salesman. Might be worth shopping that way.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Unless my vehicle was totaled or would cost too much money to make it safe to continue driving, buying a new or used vehicle in this market wouldn't be on my list of things to buy.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> Simple supply & demand at work. With no chips available, no new cars available.


Right, which us why this is upside down. With so few new cars you would think new and used would at least reach parity in inflation, year over year. But they don't. The new car technically should have risen more then the one that was manufactured at scale in 2019 in a booming economy. Their are many more of the 2020 vehicle then the 2022 vehicle but the 2020 increased in value so much that it is now worth more then the more rare vehicle.

It's weird.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

Robie said:


> Unless my vehicle was totaled or would cost too much money to make it safe to continue driving, buying a new or used vehicle in this market wouldn't be on my list of things to buy.


The old one is getting pretty rough. Only 7 years old but gone through 5 years of elementary school that's 30 miles away and a 200lbs sow. I made a pretty sizable mistake by not buying at the beginning of the Pandemic. Can't win'em all, I guess.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Just hang in there. Things will change. Used car inventories are heading up. Same for homes, supposedly.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> Just hang in there. Things will change. Used car inventories are heading up. Same for homes, supposedly.


Hope you're right. Around here houses still sell for more then asking pretty much as soon as they go up. Wild times.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Deckhead said:


> Right, which us why this is upside down. With so few new cars you would think new and used would at least reach parity in inflation, year over year. But they don't. The new car technically should have risen more then the one that was manufactured at scale in 2019 in a booming economy. Their are many more of the 2020 vehicle then the 2022 vehicle but the 2020 increased in value so much that it is now worth more then the more rare vehicle.
> 
> It's weird.



That's because one is available for purchase (in limited supply) & the other can't be had because it's missing a key component. Wait till the chips become available & they're available, they'll also be selling way above sticker price & the supply will be depleted in short order since so many plants have throttled back.

I'm just glad I bought my new truck 2 years ago. I can afford to wait a few years. Was supposed to trade in my 2010 truck, but decided to try selling it myself instead to replace what I pulled out of savings for the down payment. Here we are 2 years later & I still haven't sold the other truck. With the shortage of used dependable trucks available, I'm kinda glad. At least I know what I've got in that truck. Wife is still giving me crap for not selling.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Deckhead said:


> Hope you're right. Around here houses still sell for more then asking pretty much as soon as they go up. Wild times.



And for that reason, it makes sense to go ahead & buy a new truck & keep driving what you've got till the new one comes in.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> That's because one is available for purchase (in limited supply) & the other can't be had because it's missing a key component. Wait till the chips become available & they're available, they'll also be selling way above sticker price & the supply will be depleted in short order since so many plants have throttled back.
> 
> I'm just glad I bought my new truck 2 years ago. I can afford to wait a few years. Was supposed to trade in my 2010 truck, but decided to try selling it myself instead to replace what I pulled out of savings for the down payment. Here we are 2 years later & I still haven't sold the other truck. With the shortage of used dependable trucks available, I'm kinda glad. At least I know what I've got in that truck. Wife is still giving me crap for not selling.


That's what I'm saying though. The new one is available. It's on the lot. So is the used one on a website. Both are available for purchase and the used one costs more.


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

I like this guy. Day(s) in the life of a car salesman. His whole lot inventory now 3 cars...


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Deckhead said:


> That's what I'm saying though. The new one is available. It's on the lot. So is the used one on a website. Both are available for purchase and the used one costs more.


No clue then. Might still be worth exploring out of state options & see if they'll drive it down to ya.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

There's no way I'd buy a used vehicle right now. You're better off buying new, waiting for what you really want and trading it in on a new one when available. I saw it happening when getting my wife's car in July. The chip shortage will likely continue into 2022.

You have to keep track of what the dealers are getting in transit, to reserve it you have put down a non refundable deposit before the dealer has possession.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Robie said:


> Unless my vehicle was totaled or would cost too much money to make it safe to continue driving, buying a new or used vehicle in this market wouldn't be on my list of things to buy.


No brainer for me. Just cost me 400 a month to my super to drive his personal because he didn't like pur spare and I got free use of a brand new f350 diesel dually for 75k miles and 2 years. Wasn't much of a relative difference in cost to get a more upgraded version brand new with a 10 speed tranny, 12" screen, leather etc... SWB this time. Just gotta wait six months 😆


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

avenge said:


> There's no way I'd buy a used vehicle right now. You're better off buying new, waiting for what you really want and trading it in on a new one when available. I saw it happening when getting my wife's car in July. The chip shortage will likely continue into 2022.
> 
> You have to keep track of what the dealers are getting in transit, to reserve it you have put down a non refundable deposit before the dealer has possession.


My truck is ordered in my name, no deposit. When It gets here if I don't like it I don't have to take it


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Jaws said:


> My truck is ordered in my name, no deposit. When It gets here if I don't like it I don't have to take it



...because they know they can tack on another $4K and still sell it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Robie said:


> ...because they now they can tack on another $4K and still sell it.


 If I don't buy it yes, he will make more money


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Jaws said:


> My truck is ordered in my name, no deposit. When It gets here if I don't like it I don't have to take it


That's custom ordered which most dealers in the past would still want a deposit depending on what you're ordering. I was speaking of dealer orders. Personally I've never had to put a deposit down and wouldn't.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Leo G said:


> What happened to losing 30% as soon as you drive it off the lot?


Chicom19


I’m hearing new cars are going for $5K over sticker and the dealers are forcing you to finance through them even if you want to pay cash. They make more on financing than they do on the sale. Same with extended warranties.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Leo G said:


> What happened to losing 30% as soon as you drive it off the lot?


That's only if you turn around and want to sell it or trade it back in to a dealer.
Bend over.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Leo G said:


> What happened to losing 30% as soon as you drive it off the lot?


One of my subs got 1500 more for his 50k mile used truck than he paid new for it


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I always liked the Tahoes, Suburbans and Expeditions - had a great deal on 2 year old king ranch Expedition with 14k miles from a client when we bought my wifes car, nope. She hates big vehicles. Bought a new Explorer with Limited package. 

I hate it, but it's paid for, she will drive for 4 more years and oldest daughter can drive it. Maybe I can talk her into a bigger ride then but I doubt it 

A new top of the line explorer was 20k less than a lesser model expedition when we bought that one a couple years ago


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

After 2 or 3 years old the values drop significantly up here probably because of rust. Even right now.

In normal times new car dealers don’t even want them after ~5 years.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Jeez. Just looked mine up. I think I could get 25,000 on a 2010. Would get me out from under it. Then I would have zero debt.

Never really liked it. Uncomfortable, clunky front end.

I have around 80,000 miles. Might get 28,000. Paid 30,000 4 years ago I think.

Only problem, is I would want a 2000ish 3/4 ton Suburban as a work rig to pull the trailer. Those are sky-high now, so replacement would be a no go.

Could keep driving the 2001 Superduty and use the savings to refresh it.

Hmmmm... decisions, decisions...

Probably my only chance ever to get out of the Chevy and its massive payment.

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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My son bought a brand new 4x4 Tundra fully loaded and about a month after he bought it the dealer called him and offered him more than he paid for it if he'd sell it back to them.


Mike.
*___*


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Deckhead said:


> Well, we bought one. 2022 Palisade with the goodies. Paid $1000 more than a 2 year old one with 15k miles.
> 
> Crazy times. We bought it off the truck. There was like 12 new cars on the lot. We pick it up tomorrow, had to wait on post delivery inspection.


SEL, SE, or Calligraphy?


Mike.
*___*


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

Calidecks said:


> SEL, SE, or Calligraphy?
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


SEL leather.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Calidecks said:


> the dealer called him and offered him more than he paid for it if he'd sell it back to them.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


Including sales tax? ST can add quite a chunk to keep changing cars.


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## pzeiler (Apr 2, 2010)

Deckhead said:


> The old one is getting pretty rough. Only 7 years old but gone through 5 years of elementary school that's 30 miles away and a 200lbs sow. I made a pretty sizable mistake by not buying at the beginning of the Pandemic. Can't win'em all, I guess.


Don't call your lady a sow. 
Good thing she doesn't read this.

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## Djea3 (Jul 6, 2020)

Leo G said:


> There is now way in hell it's possible to have a carbon free power grid by 2025. IMPOSSIBLE.


You are so correct. First off carbon footprint means LITTLE TO NOTHING. The entire idea was to have a carbon exchange and create a profit industry that could point to ecology, however there is no proven relationship overall. I could go into the entire set of causes and reasons but it is irrelevant.
The ONLY way to minimize fossil fuels usage and maximize environmental gains is to utilize nuclear power. The US is no longer building nuclear power plants and when they try (like Florida did) they find they no longer have engineers that can do it. They fail and then charge the users for the failure instead of making the shareholders eat the loss.
If anyone wants to know more I could spend a couple minutes, but it makes no difference, it is all about $$$ and control and to make a political cause out of pseudo-science.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Oh they are dedicated.
And I believe manipulating the supply chains. To make the math better.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Apples and elephants. What is the connection between a verified technology and research into unknown technologies. An the "govt" is spending 5 billion/yr in research vs the people spending 5.7B/week. How is that a comparison other than both use $$. And you can tell how clueless he is saying you fill up every 10 days and a car tank holds 13 gallons.

And you can tell this was a while ago because he said fuel was going down when it is no where near going down. Still trending up and past $3.25/gal now.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

If Co2 is such a horrible pollutant....Why have they not banned dry ice and soda pop? ?


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Co2 is been found in decay trees and under ice melt so let's cut the bull


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## Fourthgeneration (Jul 25, 2021)

tgeb said:


> If Co2 is such a horrible pollutant....Why have they not banned dry ice and soda pop? ?


No CO2 = NO Plants = NO Animals = NO People = ZPG nutt jobs/ people haters


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

__





The Grand View: 4 Billion Years Of Climate Change | The Resilient Earth







web.archive.org


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Tom M said:


> Co2 is been found in decay trees and under ice melt so let's cut the bull





tgeb said:


> If Co2 is such a horrible pollutant....Why have they not banned dry ice and soda pop? ?


Ok I’ll take the bait and scream into the wind.
Co2 is not a poison to the human body, it has built up in the atmosphere causing climate change.
Co2 is captured in plants and released back into the atmosphere when it decays. One of the problems when the frozen tundra melts is that the ancient frozen plants allow their captured carbon to be released adding to the carbon in the atmosphere.
Co2 naturally is released by volcanoes, in some ground waters, hot springs,etc.
There are a bunch of other green house gasses if you wish to google them.
We need Co2 for plants to grow, and to put fizz into your soda pop. It’s just that there is to much since we burn so much fossil fuels for our current way of life. 
Just because it was cold or hot today is not climate change, that’s weather, long term averages is what is looked at and the way things are going without change is bad for humanity in the long run.
Our planet has been in a sweet spot for our lifetime but it will not be for long without the changes being worked on now. 7.8 billion is the current population of the world.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

This planet has been going through an inexorable process of change for billions of years, and that will no doubt continue for billions more. The idea that we momentary human fruitflies can significantly impact that process during our brief eye-blink of existence within the grand scheme amounts to nothing but hubris.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Our planet has been in a sweet spot for our lifetime but it will not be for long without the changes being worked on now. 7.8 billion is the current population of the world.


What is the optimum temperature for planet earth?


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Much less a hundred year of industrialization. The " ice age" happened without man's influence


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Our curiosity drives us to the "why", "how" and "can we". It's a good thing but not a concrete conclusion to all of our thoughts.


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

Tinstaafl said:


> This planet has been going through an inexorable process of change for billions of years, and that will no doubt continue for billions more. The idea that we momentary human fruitflies can significantly impact that process during our brief eye-blink of existence within the grand scheme amounts to nothing but *arrogance*.


Fixed that for ya.


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Maybe this has something to do with the problem.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Robie said:


> What is the optimum temperature for planet earth?



It may very well not be the same as is optimum for humans to exist on her surface.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Ok I’ll take the bait and scream into the wind.
> Co2 is not a poison to the human body, it has built up in the atmosphere causing climate change.
> Co2 is captured in plants and released back into the atmosphere when it decays. One of the problems when the frozen tundra melts is that the ancient frozen plants allow their captured carbon to be released adding to the carbon in the atmosphere.
> Co2 naturally is released by volcanoes, in some ground waters, hot springs,etc.
> ...


The Earth is going to do what it's going to do and man will be powerless to stop it. It's a money grab. To think the govt will take your taxes and fix this problem is ludicrous. Since they fixed so many of our other problems with trillions of tax dollars like poverty and homelessness, things they can actually control.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

We have been coming out of the little ice age since the 1700s. And we will continue to have temps raise on Earth until something big in the atmosphere or oceanic currents change abubptly. It's happened before and it WILL happen again. The Earth will continue to warm until this happens and then it will cool until the Earth is once again covered mostly in ice. It will be 10's of thousands of years or longer before this reaches the peak, or minimum depending on how far out you want to look.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

This is also if the Sun doesn't chuck out a huge CME that destroys the Earth or it's protective magnetic shield.

Speaking of magnets. The magnetic poles are moving and weakening. If as has happened before the magnetic poles shift there will be a period of time (1000s of years) where the Earth doesn't have a magnetic shield to protect the Earth from the suns harmful radiation and everything on Earth will die because the atmosphere will be stripped from the planet and the surface baked by UV radiation.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Always remember one of our politicians thought Guam was going to tip over
They are the last people that should be giving advice


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Yep, screaming into the wind. Sigh.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Tinstaafl said:


> This planet has been going through an inexorable process of change for billions of years, and that will no doubt continue for billions more. The idea that we momentary human fruitflies can significantly impact that process during our brief eye-blink of existence within the grand scheme amounts to nothing but hubris.


Yes, From a materialistic perspective, man has always greatly overestimated his impact and influence.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

WBailey1041 said:


> Fixed that for ya.


Ummm..


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Like Robie and Leo before him has always asked. What temperature is the earth supposed to be? Until you can answer that you certainly can't tell me what it's not supposed to be.


Mike.
*___*


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?


The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.




climate.nasa.gov






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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

correlation is not causation.


Mike.
*___*


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The govt funds studies and the people who do them will find what the govt wants to fund. Otherwise if they don't they will be out of a job.

You see how that works? This is how all govt studies go. They always find what the govt wants or they lose their job. And if the study is negative they find new people to conduct the study who will find what they want.


Just look at our current situation with the "pandemic". There are thousands of doctors that say the opposite of what the govt wants to be heard, so the govt silences them.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Well escalating growth in population is a huge concern by the same people sponsoring the green new deal and zero carbon footprint. ZERO. Gates openly says vaccines are a way we can curb population growth. With all thats going on politically its no wonder people are refusing the jab. Sharyl Attikson has been all over the testing problems and female menstrual cycles being eradicate after getting the shot.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Can someone explain to me how carbon credits work?

I'm thinking....if someone pays someone else a lot of money, that person can release a lot of carbon into the atmosphere....and because they paid money, that carbon is okay.

That can't be right....right?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

There are so many carbon credits to be had. Company A has 1000, company B has 200. Company B is going to go over there limit this month so they purchase some from Company A. There are suppose to be a finite limit to how many carbon credits there are allowed in a specific time period.

So if everyone follows the system only so much carbon can be released. But you know that you can buy more carbon credits from the govt. And they'll let you because if you give the govt money it's fine to release more than your allotment.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Half-fast Eddie said:


> Well ... apparently you’re part of the problem, not part of the solution.
> .


I'm assuming you don't drive a carbon dumping vehicle? 


Mike.
*___*


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Mesilla Valley said:


> I think that one answer would be cold enough to keep the polar icecaps and the permafrost frozen. We’re past that point already.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Permafrost has thawed on 3 separate occasions during the last 27,000 years.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Robie said:


> Permafrost has thawed on 3 separate occasions during the last 27,000 years.


And 27k years is small potatoes in the scheme of things.


Mike.
*___*


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Robie said:


> Permafrost has thawed on 3 separate occasions during the last 27,000 years.










Again, quoting work by the scientists that are raising the alarm about the current situation.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Again, quoting work by the scientists that are raising the alarm about the current situation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will you believe a scientist that refutes that finding? For every scientist that says yes there's one that says no. 

It all boils down to which you choose to believe.


Mike.
*___*


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Actually it’s about a 1,000 to one.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Big Johnson said:


> High 60° and low 50°


State your facts. I think the temp of a normal Earth is more like a hot tropical area. Lots of plants, CO2, forests, temps in the low 90s upper 120s.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Screaming in the wind a little more.
> I found the NASA study for you, do you want individual or other scientists that are not government backed, there are 100’s of those if you care to look.
> The climate accords are to unite the world in a global solution including China’s power plants.
> Climate credits are something that I agree are pretty stupid. It’s a accounting practice imposed on a pollution problem.
> ...


NASA Hahahahaaaa. Govt x 1000. They have been estimating remote weather stations by using heat sink areas as references nearby. They fabricate evidence. The govt wants to promote an agenda and by using govt agencies they can do it easily.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Mesilla Valley said:


> I think that one answer would be cold enough to keep the polar icecaps and the permafrost frozen. We’re past that point already.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why? At several points in history there was no ice anywhere and the land masses were much smaller because they were under water.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Actually it’s about a 1,000 to one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because the govt promotes the agenda they like and refuse to publish data that doesn't promote their view. No way is it 1000:1

Stop believing the govt. They have an agenda. They lie to you to push it.


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## Half-fast Eddie (Aug 21, 2020)

Calidecks said:


> I'm assuming you don't drive a carbon dumping vehicle?
> Mike.
> *___*


That was a joke mike. And for the record, i’m driving my popular science predicted nuclear powered flying car.


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Leo G said:


> Why? At several points in history there was no ice anywhere and the land masses were much smaller because they were under water.





Leo G said:


> Because the govt promotes the agenda they like and refuse to publish data that doesn't promote their view. No way is it 1000:1
> 
> Stop believing the govt. They have an agenda. They lie to you to push it.


So instead of believing NASA or the scientists I know or the scientific literature I’ve read I should believe Leo. . I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings by not buying into your anti science agenda.

Yes the earth has been completely covered by water many times in the past. There were also very large dinosaurs in the past. You might pick up a geology book sometime if it interests you.
Yes I’m screaming into the wind again.



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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Yes the earth has been completely covered by water many times in the past. There were also very large dinosaurs in the past. You might pick up a geology book sometime if it interests you.
> Yes I’m screaming into the wind again.


A trite response.
Those very large dinosaurs roamed the planet exponentially longer (both times) than hom0 sapiens have. We are literally 1/10th the blink of an eye...planet history wise as they were.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You didn't hurt my feelings. I just feel sorry that you believe this BS that they are telling you.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Can't even say h o mo these days.

My God.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

H-O-M-O​


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

lol


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Leo G said:


> You didn't hurt my feelings. I just feel sorry that you believe this BS that they are telling you.


Same, sorry that you believe what ever you believe.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Same, sorry that you believe what ever you believe.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, I haven't followed every post, but did you ever answer my question about what is the ideal temperature of the planet is supposed to be? Is that a temperature that can sustain human life?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Do I believe in global warming? Sure. I can see it happening around us over the 60 years I've been on this Earth. Do I think man is causing it? Nope. Do I believe man has a small part in it, sure - we do our part. Do I look at the history of the Earth, yep. Do I see patterns - yep. Do I know we are still coming out of an ice age - yep. Is it going to continue to get warmer? Of course, we are coming out of an ice age.

Does the govt want to tax the crap out of us so they can lower he CO2 and reduce the temperature of the Earth. They want the money, they are incapable of doing the latter.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That might work.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

You will have no choice and be happy 










Ford Announces Blue Oval City for Tennessee - The News Wheel


Ford announced a total $11.4 billion investment that result in the Blue Oval City campus in Tennessee and BlueOvalSK Battery Park in Kentucky.




thenewswheel.com


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

So they going to have to buy all those battery components from china?


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Looks like another Solyndra but using Amazon to funnel the loses.
Obama territory if course..... Illinois








EV maker Rivian files to go public


Electric vehicle startup Rivian, which started deliveries of its R1T pickup truck in September, released its filing to become a publicly traded company in the United States. The S-1 document filed Friday with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission does not include terms for its offering...




techcrunch.com





Of course if they eliminate the Fossil field options they set the stage to bubble Gump shrimp. Then in ten years those losses just look like accounting


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Leo G said:


> So they going to have to buy all those battery components from china?


https://media.ford.com/content/ford...lead-americas-shift-to-electric-vehicles.html Looks like Ford is making their own. Tesla has bought out Panasonic at its battery plant. The start ups will be buying for a while. The rock crawling of the rivian is pretty cool to watch. Not really a pickup, more like the Gladiator from Jeep.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Where do they get the Lithium. US has no mining


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

Large mines in South American, Peru or Columbia if I remember right. Global supply chain is hard to get around. Bunch of new battery designs in the works using different materials. Be interesting to see what comes out of the research and makes it to production.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Leo G said:


> Where do they get the Lithium. US has no mining


Planet Theta Zeta in the Verubin nebula. I also hear there’s a little clinging on to Uranus.


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## Fourthgeneration (Jul 25, 2021)

Big Johnson said:


> Planet Theta Zeta in the Verubin nebula. I also hear there’s a little clinging on to Uranus.


Lithium is recyclable: Butt it is a dirty business.....

In the trade cling is always spelled with a K......on.....


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