# define hack?



## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

hey guys, 

we need to carify what a hack is too you. 

the way he works 

the work he does 

appearance?

his price?


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

*refusing to help*


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

Bait alert!


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## TrueBlueFlyer (Sep 26, 2010)

doesn't a "hack" have a negative connotation?

of course coming from transportation... "hack" is someone with a license, lol 

--Russ


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

Slang for coughing


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

A Hack:
An idiot who has no credentials, drives up to the job in an old Dodge sheetbox, dresses like a young thug with pants so large they could conceal 13 semi automatic weapons without notice, hat on sideways or backwards, T-shirt as long as an evening gown, rap crap blaring from their open Dodge truck windows, contents of the truck bed obvious they also do landscaping (AKA lawn mowing), cuts across the lawn rather then use the sidewalk, says hello by saying yeh man whatcha want, can not produce any references or pictures of past work, blurts out a price without even lifting a pencil or a calculator, demands cash rather then check, puts down and insults those who are licensed, insured and bonded because they are idiots spending all that money on a silly piece of paper..........deserves to be tarred and feathered and be a poster on the door of the Hack hall of fame of idiots.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

License, credentials what they wear or what they drive have no bearing on the term "hack" to me.

To me a hack has no concern about the work they do, only what they get paid. There are hacks that work to cheap and there are hacks that charge to much. They just simply do a terrible job and don't care.


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

PA woodbutcher said:


> License, credentials what they wear or what they drive have no bearing on the term "hack" to me.
> 
> To me a hack has no concern about the work they do, only what they get paid. There are hacks that work to cheap and there are hacks that charge to much. They just simply do a terrible job and don't care.




I'd tend to agree with the butcher :thumbsup:

It's all about the finished product, pride, personal standards, ethics......


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

A hack is someone who, against better judgement, knowingly delivers poor value to the customer.

Mike


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

I think PA is mostly right,

The hacks I know of, range in a lot of different area's.

They don't pay for any license, insurance, or any real overhead.

Some I know don't pay taxes, can't own a vehicle without the irs leining it.
Have a business card,....which definetly means they are in business. (the business is built around this card)

Don't do any type of improvements, to better themselves. In some instances,
I have seen them run HO's out of money working for ungodly hourly wages, then leave them high and dry when the job isn't finished.

And most importantly, can quickly under price any legitimate price, because all of the above doesn't apply to them. :no:

I forgot to add how arrrogant they are, they are definetly better craftsman than anybody else. (in their mind)

I can, and probably will go on. :shifty:


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

I no several that run around everyday with out a drivers license or auto insurance, too.

These guys will gladly sell jobs for 10-15 per hr., 
And I have had some sell roofs, then try and borrow my equipment. :no:

Nice try, but go buy your own. :w00t:


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> A hack is someone who, against better judgement, knowingly delivers poor value to the customer.
> 
> Mike


Mike, you defined it in one sentence. :notworthy


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## iHandy (Oct 10, 2007)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> A hack is someone who, against better judgement, knowingly delivers poor value to the customer.
> 
> Mike


In addition, I would add those who through ignorance deliver poor value to their customers. 

It is an aspect of being a professional to be aware of the limitations of one's knowledge and experience. Not knowing, itself, is not a problem. However, not knowing and not taking the opportunity to learn is a problem.

Cheers,


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## rotarex (Mar 31, 2008)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> A hack is someone who, against better judgement, knowingly delivers poor value to the customer.
> 
> Mike


that's actually a crook (mike)

a hack is someone who dont know any better and don't care to know any better License and un license, they do a job to make ends meet and thats that

usually drinks beer rite after work and sometimes during work


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i hack stuff...sometimes....:sad:


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Seems to _me_, that everyone has at some point (tired, or behind schedule, over budget, kids sick at home...ect.) stood back, looked at something, and said "good enough".


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## mikec (Jan 2, 2007)

A hack is someone who does crappy work plain and simple.
It could be that they don't care, or don't know any better.
I have seen hacks dressed like pros driving 50k trucks, and I have seen true craftsmen that are dressed shabby, and driving old rust buckets.

To me the term hack has no bearing on appearance, vehicle or insurance,license ect...

If a guy ( hack or not) is operating without license and insurance, he is a criminal.


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## iHandy (Oct 10, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> Seems to _me_, that everyone has at some point (tired, or behind schedule, over budget, kids sick at home...ect.) stood back, looked at something, and said "good enough".


"good enough" does not equal "hack"

Good enough is good enough, and might just be a suitable level of execution. 

I know that in my case, good enough is not good enough. I'm happy when the work is overdone. But that's my standard because I can and I take pride in my work. Again that's just me and sometimes good enough is actually good enough.

Unless good enough means something other than good enough...

... I tend towards the literal


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

Super interesting thread, and I enjoy reading all of it, 
I think everyone has something good to state, especially when discussing such a subject. :thumbsup: 

My opinions are based solely on alot of the things I see around me, 
I agree a lot of people "I" would consider hacks are indeed criminals.

I too have seen legitimate, big name companys that do super crappy work, and/ or hire illegals. 
Drink beer on site, leave cans in HO bushes. :blink: (another list that could grow large quickly)


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i put my empty vodka bottles in tree limbs:shifty:


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

tomstruble said:


> i put my empty vodka bottles in tree limbs:shifty:


out of site, out of mind :laughing:


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> Seems to _me_, that everyone has at some point (tired, or behind schedule, over budget, kids sick at home...ect.) stood back, looked at something, and said "good enough".


Materials - $49.95
Labor - $125.00

Seeing the look on the HO's face after muttering, "OOPS! Oh well, it will look fine from my driveway" - PRICELESS!:clap:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Statistics on "Hacks"

77% drive trucks more than 12 years old 
17% drive cars, bicycles, or not at all.

46% are admitted alcoholics
41% deal with denial issues

64% have prepaid cell phone plans
28% use moms phone

81% have been in business for less than 1 year
17% don't know what year it is

73% charge less per job than than industry standards
27% charge tree fiddy per job because they heard it here and don't understand sarcasm


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i can't seem to believe anyone that tells me how good they are,but i do believe it when other people tell me how good someone is,my brain must not be wired right:sad:


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

Being a craftsman does not necessarily mean being a businessman.

If you look at it from the perspective of skill alone, as a craftsman, you could have zero business sense, show up drunk and leave drunk, look like a slob, cuss and spit the whole time...but put out some truly amazing work of craftsmanship. Craftsmanship has only to do with skill/knowledge/experience of a particular trade.

A "hack" craftsman is someone that doesn't have the skill/knowledge/experience of a particular trade to be able to deliver to the minimum acceptable standards of that trade OR does have the prerequisite requirements but for a number of reasons does NOT deliver work to minimum acceptable standards.

A hack CONTRACTOR on the other hand, is everything that doesn't have to do with the actual, physical trade specific portions of work. This includes:

-License, Insurance, coverage, ect.
-Not presentable, clean and well groomed.
-Not professional in dealing with contracts, rules and regs.
-Doesn't pay employees/subs
-Steals money, doesn't finish work
-Drinks on the job
-Sends a poor image of "contractors" in general.
-etc.

Being a hack at one doesn't mean you're a hack at the other, necessarily.


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

What does my mom’s cell phone have to do with anything:blink:


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

Ha Ha, I pay for my moms cell phone,...where does that rank? :laughing:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

#one son in my book:notworthy


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

CCCo. said:


> Ha Ha, I pay for my moms cell phone,...where does that rank? :laughing:


It means your mom's a HACK!:w00t:








I kid I kid, please don't kill :laughing:


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

a hack as you call them is someone who has no respect for his work or his clients he only has respect for money , they usually have the gift of the gab and know how to talk their way out of tricky situations with clients , also know how to bully a customer for payment . but these hacks always seem to be busy because when it comes to pricing customers only want the cheap price they dont respect our trades so these customers deserve what they get also a hack has little skill and no morals as we say here " a jack of all trades a master of none "


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

some of us just don't know no better:no:


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

remember if there were no cheap customers there be no hacks


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

Sólo porque espeako spanglish en el trabajo no significa que soy un hack, homie ok? :thumbsup:


I will venture to summarize this thread by stating that "hack" is a state of mind more than anything else. People that are hacks know that they're hacks, though they may not even admit it to themselves.


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## dvon104 (Jun 23, 2007)

A hack is.....
.99 sqft painter on craigslist (includes paint yeah, right)....
the guy who thinks he "made 500.00 a day" but dosent have a clue about OVERHEAD....
the guy that furnishes a HO a copy of a certificate of insurance that he let lapse because he did not pay the premiums but says in ad .."fully insured"
but to me the worst ...the guy that comes out to give a bid to a HO and measures nothing and figures nothing ..just says "give me a copy of your lowest bid and I will take 10-15% of his price "guaranteed" and he is my insurance certificate....and the HO's are doing it ...bastardos


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

darr1 said:


> remember if there were no cheap customers there be no hacks


:blink:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Well, so far, although not in all posts, the majority of the expressed opinions of what comprises being a hack seem to be whatever the person doing the judging deems apropos.

Many of the incidences of labeling seem to have little to do with legitimate evaluations or seem to even be based in reality.

I'm especially fond of the reasoning that underbidding me makes someone a hack. As I see it, all that makes the other guy is competition whose price I can't (or won't) beat.

Driving a paid-for truck that enables him to bid less than someone making $300 a month truck payments (with the associated higher insurance premiums) also seems to indicate "hackness". Now that's really stretching for a conviction.

"Attitude makes him a hack." Really? Have we looked around a little? Attitude is everywhere. You don't even have to look beyond the computer screen in front of you to find it in buckets. :laughing:

The hack's prices aren't up to industry standards? Might that actually be that "Prices should be up around what I feel they should be."?

There have also been a lot of honest, legitimate evaluations expressed here. In my opinion, those are the ones addressing desire and concern about doing good work, and standing behind it.

No license makes him a hack. Well, that does put him in violation of laws we've allowed to be passed, but it honestly says little about the quality of his work or his craftsmanship... just that he is perhaps opposed to some pretty oppressive government intervention that we accept and choose to operate under.

An interesting note is that this country was founded upon resistance to, and refusal to adhere to, oppressive government intervention. The founding fathers would have been seen as political hacks in their day.

So it kind of seems like a hack is not much more than the person we choose to call a hack.

Jus' sayin.......


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Well said, Willie.

Personally, my definition of a hack is "anybody but me." :jester:


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Willie T said:


> Well, so far, although not in all posts, the majority of the expressed opinions of what comprises being a hack seem to be whatever the person doing the judging deems apropos.
> 
> Many of the incidences of labeling seem to have little to do with legitimate evaluations or seem to even be based in reality.
> 
> ...













:laughing::laughing:


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> A hack is someone who, against better judgement, knowingly delivers poor value to the customer.
> 
> Mike


 i think a hack wouldn't know better and wouldn't have better judgment... just try with limited knowlege to bandaid a situation


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

world llc said:


> i think a hack wouldn't know better and wouldn't have better judgment... just try with limited knowlege to bandaid a situation


 
The last hack i worked at a house with really did think his awful work was good quality. After numerous f-ups and really bad quality of work he had the cheek to say to me that its hard to find good quality contractors like him anymore!! :blink::shutup:

This is after the customer got me to look over the work and tell her if the quality of work was normal lol. 

If making holes through cabinets for water and electric with a hammer , hitting cabinets into place with massive metal hammer, screwing them to wall with 1" long screws, cutting holes in the just laid hardwood that were in the wrong place, leaving black finger and hand marks all over the ceiling and walls, cuts as much as half inch out on end fill panels and using my tools without asking is normal then yes he done a great job.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

CCCo. said:


> out of site, out of mind :laughing:


i do the same with empty import beer cans at xmas time... didnt go over so well the first time at my folks place:jester:

oops wrong quote, i was reffering to toms vodka bottles


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## Five Arrows (Jan 30, 2010)

*To Hack or not to Hack that is the question*

Hamlet 3/1
To be, or not to be: that is the question: _(Hackiness that is)_
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, _(Or from the high and lofty among us of whom I count myself... lofty not high)_
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, _(Shall I truely post how much should I charge?)_
And by opposing end them? 
To die: to sleep; No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation _(At least they can bury me in the truck)_
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come _( I dream about someday being a real contractor)_
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, _(or of this thread)_
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns _(and you thought they just had to deal with old trucks_)
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear, _( I don't know what a bare bodkin is but if it fits in a bikini I'll take a look)_
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death, _(Oh well)_
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have _(they aren't talking about Vegas are they?)_
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; _(now that's some serious heady stuff)_
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry, _(I see that they were self employed_)
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons 
Be all my sins remember'd. _(Oh the guy must have been married)_


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Five Arrows said:


> Hamlet 3/1
> To be, or not to be: that is the question: _(Hackiness that is)_
> Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
> The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, _(Or from the high and lofty among us of whom I count myself... lofty not high)_
> ...


OH!!! That's why I smell. :blink:


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## jmacd (Jul 14, 2009)

thats a good post!


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

so...poetic:blink:


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I have my own personal opinion, and others have theirs. I guess in a not so eloquent way to put it, a hack would be someone who just doesn't give a rat's ass what it looks like.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Someone say my name?


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

Only one way to deal with hacks:clap:


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## mikec (Jan 2, 2007)

Heritage said:


> Being a craftsman does not necessarily mean being a businessman.
> 
> If you look at it from the perspective of skill alone, as a craftsman, you could have zero business sense, show up drunk and leave drunk, look like a slob, cuss and spit the whole time...but put out some truly amazing work of craftsmanship. Craftsmanship has only to do with skill/knowledge/experience of a particular trade.
> 
> ...



Very well said sir.


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## Flacan (Aug 28, 2007)

These are my observations about Hacks:

More often than not, a Hack is someone who doesn't know that he/she is doing poor quality work. 

Often, a Hack has more confidence in himself than a non-Hack.

The average Hack has less overall intelligence than the average a non-Hack. 

Many times a Hack's behavior is influenced by upbringing and lack of education.

Often, a Hack knows how to talk the talk (may even have above average verbal intelligence, and can be real charmers), but doesn't know how to walk the walk.

Sometimes they just need to buy reading glasses, so they can actually see what they are working on...I've actually run into this with someone.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

The guy in line in front of you who has 2x8's, a bag of concrete, some romex, a bunch of PVC pipe, and a helper stupid bitching about how bob should be doing so and so.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

jmiller said:


> The guy in line in front of you who has 2x8's, a bag of concrete, some romex, a bunch of PVC pipe, and a helper stupid bitching about how bob should be doing so and so.


You should have said hello. Didn't know it was you behind me :thumbsup:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I still love the judgement calls on appearance.

A few years back, I was visiting a friend at his rather large paint store. We saw an old, homeless looking guy walking past. Tom asked me if I knew who he was. I didn't.

He said, "He's my landlord. He owns this building, and most of the others for three blocks along this street."

That multi millionaire would have been seen as a hack by many of us.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> You should have said hello. Didn't know it was you behind me :thumbsup:


I was too busy bitching about Jim to my boss.


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

CCCo. said:


> I think PA is mostly right,
> 
> The hacks I know of, range in a lot of different area's.
> 
> ...


I know several hacks who are licensed and properly insured.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

*Heating Hack on Craigslist*

"need baseboard heating that can run off the furnace. need it for 2 rooms i have finished in customers basement. also need 2 thermastats and the thing that connects to the furnace i think circulaters.":whistling


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

world llc said:


> i think a hack wouldn't know better and wouldn't have better judgment... just try with limited knowlege to bandaid a situation


I love great stuff!
You don't know how many leaks I've fixed with that stuff. 
:jester:

seriously, the term "hack" gets thrown together with terms like illegal, not by-the-book, and cheap. To me, they have nothing to do with a person whom performs hackery. though, They are often present. 

My definition is: a person who performs sub-standard or unsafe work. This work is not discussed with the customer, as far as being "for the money." 
example: contractor takes a job for $1000, but to do the job right would cost $8000. They perform the work skipping vital parts (no house wrap, flashing, etc) and do not inform the customer that's what they're paying for. 
Or a person who charges the right price and does the same improper installation. 
A person who builds a deck without joist hangers, similar strong-ties, and uses Sheetrock screws to assemble. 
These are just a few examples...


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Everyone other than CT members, GMOD


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

Business men/woman use the term far to often as part of their sales pitch.

In some cases it actually makes them an hack, because they try so hard to make themselves look better than the other guys that they end up giving half/stretched truths.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

yup, Genecarp...

There are currently 64,868 non-hacks here... and 1 hack.

Feels kinda weird.

(and suspicious)


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Jimmy Cabinet said:


> A Hack:
> An idiot who has no credentials, drives up to the job in an old Dodge sheetbox, dresses like a young thug with pants so large they could conceal 13 semi automatic weapons without notice, hat on sideways or backwards, T-shirt as long as an evening gown, rap crap blaring from their open Dodge truck windows, contents of the truck bed obvious they also do landscaping (AKA lawn mowing), cuts across the lawn rather then use the sidewalk, says hello by saying yeh man whatcha want, can not produce any references or pictures of past work, blurts out a price without even lifting a pencil or a calculator, demands cash rather then check, puts down and insults those who are licensed, insured and bonded because they are idiots spending all that money on a silly piece of paper..........deserves to be tarred and feathered and be a poster on the door of the Hack hall of fame of idiots.


 
Jimmmmmmmyyyy.....Jimmmmmmyyyyy.........are you possibly reflecting on your recent past experience??:laughing:


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## atrawlings (Feb 9, 2009)

One of my employees has been with me for ONE year. ONE year in construction. 

He has decided he is ready to build a home for himself and has started.

He is a decent helper by day. A hack by night.

Seems to me a hack is someone who is simply over their head but does the work anyway.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

> Seems to me a hack is someone who is simply over their head but does the work anyway.


Seems about right, except they often don't recognize they are over their heads.
Performing tasks at lower standards than what is generally acceptable by the majority of tradesmen is a sign of a hack.


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

1. To cut or chop with repeated and irregular blows: hacked down the saplings.
2. To break up the surface of (soil).
3. 
a. Informal To alter (a computer program): hacked her text editor to read HTML.
b. To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization: hacked the firm's personnel database.
4. Slang To cut or mutilate as if by hacking: hacked millions off the budget.
5. Slang To cope with successfully; manage: couldn't hack a second job.
v.intr.

LOL this is a fun thread! I just finished up a big trim job where the GC had a beater van- it ran! mostly. but!!! his work? excellent quality. Very good problem solver. He did say to me that he didn't need a 50k truck to do his job, and from what I saw I agree, the HO was really happy with the reno.

appearances can fool ya sometimes.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

genecarp said:


> Everyone other than CT members, GMOD



I suspect we have our fair share of them here. Both under and overpaid.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i'm under


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

tomstruble said:


> i'm under


Me too sometimes, and sometimes overpaid:whistling It all works out at the end of the year...or seems to anyways.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

I'm over 





















:w00t:


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## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

Heh, I just finished hacking two bathrooms in one day. 

Took on sub work doing over a couple bathrooms in a hud division. Tore out two baths and sheetrocked in one day. The walls were homasote, we only tore out what we had to, left the rest. No plastic was put up. GC soldered the pipes himself, I could twist the pipes around in the socket when he was done.

Mold everywhere. No effort to clean it up. Sheetrock was thrown up, not even fire taped where it's to be hidden. square seams against tapers. 1" gaps. No permits.

At 5 O'clock GC is standing behind me fuming about what's taking so long. I told him it's not that it's taking so long, that's the problem. It's that it's not even close to being done right. I took him off guard, I was far more steamed then he was.

I'm not going back. I don't work that way. I have no intentions of even getting paid. It was the biggest hack job I've ever seen by far. My only regret is finishing the day, I knew enough to walk after the first hour.

I left my trailer home, filled the cab of my truck with basic tools. GC said he'd have everything we needed. :w00t: BS, I think this guy would bang nails with a shoe, as opposed to buying something. 

Times are slow, but I'll feel better riding the couch, till my own job starts back up Thursday.

Funny, when I walked through the door, first thing my wife said to me was "Bad day?". I'd say, I wanna puke.


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

Jaf your fired!
If you want your pay you need to finish, I have no idea what I’m typing right now
It sucks that a hack gets the work & he has to hire a professional to do the work for him and when the work is not being completed as fast as the video he watched the night before, the hack builder gets upset.
I too have been in that position, more than ounce, it sucks. Do what I do, hand the HO a business card explain this guys is a hack. Leave and hope they call you for the repairs


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## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

Yeah, I can't even believe it. I was thinking of this thread on the way home. I don't like the term "hack". It's derogatory, just adds more fuel under the trades. After today though, I can embrace it for a bit.

This GC has been slow for the past couple years. I've used his guys occasionally on my jobs when I needed help. The past month, I've been slow and have helped him on a few jobs. I worked on my first trailer, and my first HUD job. I also mentioned on another thread about this guy free hand notching a stud filled with nails, with my $85 12" blade. (earlier that day, he wanted to know, why I didn't bring the compound slider with the $125 blade). Unbelievable. Today took the cake though.

Just to finish off my rant. I can't believe how this is possible on a HUD job. I know little about the workings of HUD jobs, but I thought they were stricter then normal. There's a property management company over the GC ( I met these people, what a joke), then the HUD requirements, and supposedly a building inspector. RRP? :laughing: . I can't believe in the end, I'm paying for this hackery out of my taxes.

If I don't collect my head by tomorrow, I'm going to seriously nuke this guy's pride. To hell with getting paid.


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

Go for it Jaf

AKA Duke Nukem


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

thats too bad jaf, 

i just can't think why someone would want to be called a hack myself.

i have a buddy who has his own biz, i don't know how he does it, he keeps working though.

he is doing his own kitchen, he asked for my habitat for humanity price, i never answered his call lol. i went over after i knew he was underway.

dam i forgot my camera, i was busting his ass pretty hard. what a hack and he trains them like that too.

how about a jack stud isn't long enough so i will use a rat to gnaw on a new one in place.

when they took down a ceiling, it had signs of water damage from the tub leaking, his fix was to put a cool whip jug in place to catch the drip hahaha


i said to him when he gets a job if he calculates the drip to tell the homeowner, your gonna need a salad bowl at the rate your tub is leaking.

i actually had him laughing hahaha

you can't even shame them into some talent haha


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## mehtwo (Nov 14, 2010)

*hacks are ignorant*

A hack also makes fun of you if you suggest the right way to do a job. Unfortunately, I've worked for a few. It seems like they got their licenses out of Cracker Jack boxes.:laughing:


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## mattsk8 (Dec 6, 2009)

Jaf said:


> Yeah, I can't even believe it. I was thinking of this thread on the way home. I don't like the term "hack". It's derogatory, just adds more fuel under the trades. After today though, I can embrace it for a bit.
> 
> This GC has been slow for the past couple years. I've used his guys occasionally on my jobs when I needed help. The past month, I've been slow and have helped him on a few jobs. I worked on my first trailer, and my first HUD job. I also mentioned on another thread about this guy free hand notching a stud filled with nails, with my $85 12" blade. (earlier that day, he wanted to know, why I didn't bring the compound slider with the $125 blade). Unbelievable. Today took the cake though.
> 
> ...


I installed a couple kitchens and did a bunch of trim, 'refinishing' hardwood flooring, and some other odds and ends for the same thing a while ago. Times were tough so I took it. First I got hammered on my pricing. Then- let the bewilderment begin!

First we go to HD and buy the absolute cheapest (and I mean cheapest) cabinets and countertops we could find (pure garbage). 

Then, the guy from the property management place was heating one of the houses w/ a propane heater that was setting on an ash hardwood floor that I was going to refininish for him. I'm there working on the kitchen when... "I smell something burning." Sure enough, propane heater burned about a 12x12" spot in the floor. I tell him I can find some ash but it'll take a bit. Nah, oaks close enough. Just cut out the burned spot (make sure it's a nice straight sqaure!) and replace it w/ oak! Whatever, I did then gave the floor the quick 'refinish'! The property management guy told me it was the nicest house they owned!!

I could go on and on about these houses!

So in summary, I'm a hack as long as I'm getting paid and everyone's good w/ it :whistling!

As far as the alchohol on the job goes, I had this tile guy... Never seen anyone so meticulous while laying tile. Takes him a little longer but his jobs are always phenominal and he's cheaper by quite a bit than most of the other tile guys out there. After the first couple jobs he did for me I found out he finishes his first pint of vodka by like 12:00, he would mix it w/ one of those energy drinks (and he generally didn't get there till like 9:00)! I actually hired him to do more knowing that but he does great work at a very respectable price!


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

everybody gets thru theyre day in different ways hahaha


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## deckandpatio (Nov 8, 2010)

A hack is someone without a license. Someone that does not warranty work. Somebody that puts the bottom dollar over customer satisfaction.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Jaf said:


> Yeah, I can't even believe it. I was thinking of this thread on the way home. I don't like the term "hack". It's derogatory, just adds more fuel under the trades. After today though, I can embrace it for a bit.
> 
> This GC has been slow for the past couple years. I've used his guys occasionally on my jobs when I needed help. The past month, I've been slow and have helped him on a few jobs. I worked on my first trailer, and my first HUD job. I also mentioned on another thread about this guy free hand notching a stud filled with nails, with my $85 12" blade. (earlier that day, he wanted to know, why I didn't bring the compound slider with the $125 blade). Unbelievable. Today took the cake though.
> 
> ...


 I can tell you about HUD Jobs. Many times the inspectors are on the pad. I worked a large one back in the late 80's. I never seen so much grift. Laborers on different payroll to circumvent prevailing wage. Someone was stealing all the thermostats after HVAC would complete units. I was foreman on the job so I had to deal with all the s88t. Super comes to me and says we have problem with the carpet guys (too expensive) overcharging on materials etc. I make a suggestion to buy the large rolls from the mill and hire 2 flooring guys on the payroll. How are we going to handle such big rolls? I said you got 2 dozen guys here cart it to the parking lot, cut off what you need for the week, put the rest in storeroom, Oh yea, thanks Tim What do they do? Overbuy by 3 large rolls since they have it in the budget and trade them for 3 new chevy small blocks in the crates. That was the last time I ever wanted to brainstorm for or help anybody. There's more, much more but you get the idea when it's your tax dollars no one's accountable Oh yea one more thing when job was done I get a survey from HUD in the mail wanting my input I threw it in the trash


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

deckandpatio said:


> A hack is someone without a license.


You must be from Florida. :laughing:

Licensing has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of one's work or ethics. In many areas, including mine, no license at all is required for general contracting.


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## RPMs (Nov 13, 2010)

license or not, a hack/butcher is someone that covers his mistake with caulk. and still thinks it looks good.

they do not know any better.(sad). i worked with a guy that could not get his cuts any where close, he said he didn't know how.

i spent some time showing him several different ways to use a square. he went right back to just making it fit, and caulking up the gap.


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## fourcornerhome (Feb 19, 2008)

A hack is someone who uses customer tools, rather than bring his own, then defends the practice on a builders forum.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It's the guy that put those windows in that other thread.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> A hack is someone who, against better judgement, knowingly delivers poor value to the customer.
> 
> Mike


I disagree, some of them actually think it's the best work ever.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

fourcornerhome said:


> A hack is someone who uses customer tools, rather than bring his own, then defends the practice on a builders forum.


Is this true? Does someone here actually do this?


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Joe Carola said:


> Is this true? Does someone here actually do this?


Hey, I used a customer's screwdriver once :clap:


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

Joe Carola said:


> Is this true? Does someone here actually do this?



Maybe a hack...

But, I'd call him a hoser. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


No offense to you guys north of the border. 


D.


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## Five Arrows (Jan 30, 2010)

Anybody that bid against me!


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Five Arrows said:


> Anybody that bid against me!


:laughing:

I'd add to that anybody who does something differently than I do!


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

my builder buddy is a bonafide hack, nice likable guy though, so he is always working hahaha

he built his kitchen this summer, all summer hahaha he is slow, so he calls me to trim it out,

when ya build a custom kitchen it should fit right????????????? hahaha i had to move this cabinet there and this one here and here are my trims i don't know where they go?????????/ hahahaa

i wasn't there 5 minutes when i asked who did the rock, i knew it wasn't him.

i asked if the tape pop was extra , where do you see that, i figured you would see it hahaha dont tell my wife wtf.

if and when i go i will get pics hahaha


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## deckandpatio (Nov 8, 2010)

FRAME2FINISH said:


> my builder buddy is a bonafide hack, nice likable guy though


He's not going to like you if he ever reads this post.


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## deckandpatio (Nov 8, 2010)

fourcornerhome said:


> A hack is someone who uses customer tools, rather than bring his own, then defends the practice on a builders forum.


Are you possibly referring to somebody on this forum?:w00t:


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## stp57 (Dec 12, 2007)

A hack IMO, can even be licensed, if they know the right way to do something but choose not to do it anyway, or they refuse to learn the correct way because they have skated by this long, so why change now.
Hacks notoriously try to make one tool do the whole job, so that they won't have to go back to the truck, or (egads!) have to purchase another tool.
Steve


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

deckandpatio said:


> He's not going to like you if he ever reads this post.


 naw he knows i tell him all the time, today even whenhe called about what to do with his countertop hahaha 

i went over there and its like i designed it, every color i have in my house they have , even used the same wood i chose to build theyre stairs hahaha

he is kinda smart lol


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