# Turns out i suck at taping and mudding



## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

I always subbed out finishing Sheetrock. But I decided to try at my house tying new ceiling Sheetrock into plastered ceiling. I freaking suck at it. Slow. Using 20 min working time mud. Urgggg. It's going to turn out fine. But I believe I will get someone else to do next time


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Smithanator said:


> I always subbed out finishing Sheetrock. But I decided to try at my house tying new ceiling Sheetrock into plastered ceiling. I freaking suck at it. Slow. Using 20 min working time mud. Urgggg. It's going to turn out fine. But I believe I will get someone else to do next time


But it's so much fun! I don't think anyone picks it up the first time... Or the second.


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## onthelevel (Apr 6, 2011)

Or third.:laughing:


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

onthelevel said:


> Or third.:laughing:


I can comfirm that first hand. :laughing:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Smithanator said:


> I freaking suck at it. Slow.


Easy to fix this - work faster:thumbsup:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

It takes a while to learn, don't give up! My fourth or fifth try I think I got it down pretty good. People like to give up too easily, think of it as a challenge.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I'd start with 45 or maybe slower if you're just learning.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

It takes 4 or 5 years every day to become journeymen caliber.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Smithanator said:


> I always subbed out finishing Sheetrock. But I decided to try at my house tying new ceiling Sheetrock into plastered ceiling. I freaking suck at it. Slow. Using 20 min working time mud. Urgggg. It's going to turn out fine. But I believe I will get someone else to do next time



Screw the Hot mud. 

Best to use general purpose out of the bucket, especially for the first few times. Easier to work with more forgiving. Has some push back on the knife and doesn't sand like easy sand light weight. 

Yes taping is stupid easy right? :no:


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Texas Wax said:


> Screw the Hot mud.
> 
> Best to use general purpose out of the bucket, especially for the first few times. Easier to work with more forgiving. Has some push back on the knife and doesn't sand like easy sand light weight.
> 
> Yes taping is stupid easy right? :no:


Listen to T-Wax. Biggest part of the reason you're having a hard time is because you are using the wrong mud. Hot mud way harder to work with and a PIA to sand. If you are using 20 you are shooting yourself in the foot and guaranteeing a crappy/miserable job right off the get go.

Get a bucket of general purpose (green lid) for your first two coats. Then use topping compound (blue lid) for your third/final coat. It is lighter weight and sands really nice. If you take this advice it will go 10x better.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Another vote to nix the hot mud & use GP out of the bucket.

Odds are you are also using too much mud per application & over working it.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

If you're just starting, there's a good chance your tools don't have the right curve to them for the stiffness of what you're using. This isn't a big problem with trowels (they can get messed up, but not as easily), but there is no knife I've seen ready for use as bought. I've also seen knives that no matter what you do, the darn thing always goes back to some odd shape.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

My only comment on hot mud vs premix is hot mud if mixed by directions tends to be pretty stiff. I use trowels for any stiff stuff. The curves on all my knives are set for thinned premix.

I use LaFarge medium weight a lot.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

griz said:


> Odds are you are also using too much mud per application & over working it.


Griz mentioned this probably because EVERBODY makes these mistakes at first, until they learn to control how much mud goes on and where.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Let's see pics!

Guys who tape for a living are doing 100,000s of feet a year, and they aren't very good after the first 100,000.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Smithanator said:


> I always subbed out finishing Sheetrock. But I decided to try at my house tying new ceiling Sheetrock into plastered ceiling. I freaking suck at it. Slow. Using 20 min working time mud. Urgggg. It's going to turn out fine. But I believe I will get someone else to do next time


Get a power sander. Beats sanding the mud off by hand. I avoided muddying as much as I could. I sucked at it. But since no one wants to do a job under 50 sheets I had to learn. Now I'm up there with the best of them. Very little sanding now. Just practice , practice , and practic.


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## onthelevel (Apr 6, 2011)

*Tips*

Now that we teased you a bit, here are the most useful beginner's tips I learned.

1)Most important is don't let the mud get all the way to the edges of the knife. Wipe of a good inch off each side. Otherwise it smears past edges and leaves a ridge. 
2) Keep the mud at the tip of your knife. Not too much either, and once it starts sliding down towards the handle too much, reload knife and start again.
3) Every little while (depending on mud, humidity, temp etc.) when the knife gets a little crusty, wipe it clean with a damp sponge.. Otherwise u get little boogers that leave streaks when you pull the mud across.
Cleanliness is Godliness with mudding.
4) Most new mudders put it on too much and too thick. They usually put an obscense amount of mud on the wall. 
5) When u start with the beginner bucket mud, thin it out a little even on the taping coat. And each coat after usually gets a little thinner.
Mix it well with some water til it's very smooth. Make sure there's no chunks

That's a few important pointers that'll help.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

I hate chunks. You lay the most perfect mud only to see a line down the mud. Then you have to decide do I try again or leave it and catch it the next day.


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## onthelevel (Apr 6, 2011)

Gary H said:


> I hate chunks. You lay the most perfect mud only to see a line down the mud. Then you have to decide do I try again or leave it and catch it the next day.


I only like chunky women, Not mud. :jester:

I'll scrape the mud off the wall if you get chunks then clean the knife and quarantine the suspect mud. Scrape it to one part of pan where you keep the chunky stuff. 

Also lots of times with bucket mud if it isn't pretty fresh you'll have to scrape a layer off the top. I like to add a couple cups of water on top of the mud bucket and it keeps it fresher. Keep the bucket sides clean too. And the plastic on top of the mud don't let get crusty. 
Sponge off the sides etc.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

You've got to learn to bury those chunks.


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## SouthonBeach (Oct 18, 2012)

20 minute mud is insane for learning how to tape and finish drywall. Get premix like everyone else has said. If you insist on hot mud get at least 90


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

onthelevel said:


> Also lots of times with bucket mud if it isn't pretty fresh you'll have to scrape a layer off the top. I like to add a couple cups of water on top of the mud bucket and it keeps it fresher. Keep the bucket sides clean too. And the plastic on top of the mud don't let get crusty.
> Sponge off the sides etc.


I used to do that. Mainly I scrape the sides as I go, and cover with painter's plastic pressed onto the mud. I'm getting lazier and lazier....


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Gary H said:


> I hate chunks. You lay the most perfect mud only to see a line down the mud. Then you have to decide do I try again or leave it and catch it the next day.


My father was a taper for 37 years. We always called them (chunks) goobers.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> My father was a taper for 37 years. We always called them (chunks) goobers.


I call them hitchhikers.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Call it all SNOT 

flick 'em like boogers with your knife or finger.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

griz said:


> Odds are you are also using too much mud per application & over working it.


:thumbsup:Odds are.
The thing for a beginner to remember is that it's always easier to come back and add more, especially with hot mud, rather than put on too much and have to knock it down.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

It seems to me most beginners don't use enough mud. But I'm talking remodel work mud and tape where you tend to need more mud with transition to existing walls or skim coating.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My father taught me it's better to put too little mud on and hit it again then crown it with too much build up.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> My father taught me it's better to put too little mud on and hit it again then crown it with too much build up.


 I think either way can be a problem. If you put on too much it can shrink and create cracks, will take longer to dry, and create more sanding. If you put on too little, it really won't hurt anything except you'll have to spend another entire day adding another layer of mud to cover up the dings, something that should have been taken care of the first time. I try and teach guys not to put too much or to little on, focus on putting on the correct amount the first time.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

What are you having trouble with? Keeping the mud on the hawk instead of the floor?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I agree with what everyone else is saying about using small amounts and building it up. That's pretty much how I learned how to control the knife. 

Take a little dab of mud, scrape it on like you are buttering bread and then drag the knife over the joint to scrape off the "excess". The first 2 or 3 coats won't look that great but because you are adding mud to build up the low spots, it will start to take shape on the 3rd and 4th coats. 

At this point in my career, I use the 5 minute hot mud because I don't have the patience to wait a half a day to do a recoat. At the same time, I'm spreading it on very sparingly so I am not worried about it being perfect. By the time I get the 3rd pass going across the joint, it's 80-90% of where it needs to be.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I call the chunks [email protected]#@#$%%^$^F#$%^^&&%$#%%##'ers. 

No less than 45 here for walls. 20 is for a quick repair or patch. Tape runs aren't perfect, second smooths it out, third I usually use a premix topping and it turns out decent enough.

My RO 150 is a blessing for sanding these days. Quick, no dust. A few seconds and I'm done. Last coat needs very little.

My sore shoulder is my biggest problem now.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

VinylHanger said:


> ...My RO 150 is a blessing for sanding these days. ...


Ditto that.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Smithy.... I'm exactly same boat as you.... sub any tapeing/finishing I can... but on small jobs it's not practical.

I feel for you....

He11... I'm so slow..... GP is hot mud to me...:thumbup:

There is great advice above..... It's just repeated practice.... at first you have to actually think about it as you're doing it.... think about pressure on your blade.... being smoth with your pull/wipe... etc etc...

gradually you get a little better with practice.

WOW though, you kinda started hard.... ceiling with 20 minute.

Good luck.... Guess I won't see you this year at the Tapeing Nnationals... bucause I sure won't be there.


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

Thank you all for the advise. I was literally pulling my hair out. I cut tape out once because of bubbles and redid . I am sure I messed up taping plastered seem to new Sheetrock. Guess I should have Either shimmed it down or scraped plaster side. I had to stop last night was so mad and frustrated back at it tomorrow. My wife is not happy about kitchen being out of commission. I did it because a, I need to practice somewhere b ,a slow time at work this time of year and c just spent $350 for plumber to put in drain


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

I would send pics. But it's embarrassing. Should I start from scratch Tom sand all mud off. And reapply mud premixed mud ?


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

If its humped and too high..... yes..... and hot is tough sanding.

If it's not high..... just second/third coats tapered out.


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> What are you having trouble with? Keeping the mud on the hawk instead of the floor?


Uh. Yes and my shirt hair ect. Lol


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

Define too high


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

Smithanator said:
 

> Define too high


Stand your knife up on the factory tapers and look for light. If there's still light between the tapers, you're good. If you can wobble your knife them you have a high point.


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

I think I have to sand before final coat. That ok right? As long as I shop vac real good after?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

You should sand between all coats. Knock the dust off the wall and final.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You should sand between all coats. Knock the dust off the wall and final.


Yep, because your at least going to have one lap mark.


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## D.E.P.S. (Aug 3, 2013)

My wife and son are both sweeet finishers. I have seldom ever had to sand or knock the edges off their work before final coats. My work? .....YUP :laughing:

Never hurts to sand between coats if the work is a little jagged. I think it is smart.

I do not like vacuuming drywall dust. The dust will find every nook and cranny inside the unit you are working in. I use soft bristle brushes and brooms. They work very well.


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

So I am a little worried. I was sanding final coat 1 am. And stupid me no eye protection. Lots of dust in eyes . Woke up this morning and there is this bubble thing on bottom of eye ball. Pretty sure nothing in there. Think some rock dust cut my eyeball. Has this ever happened to you guys? Oh and btw it turned out pretty good especially for a rookie.


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

I guess I just need someone to say its going to be fine. It doesn't really hurt anymore


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

Guess I should find goggles for little bit of hand sanding I have left


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Smithanator said:


> Guess I should find goggles for little bit of hand sanding I have left


You know that if you're into pre-mixed (i.e. not hot mud/setting type) you can "sand" with a wet sponge, either a sheetrock sanding sponge or a plain sponge. Whether it makes sense depends on how much you have left, the finish you need, etc. If it's a small area, sometimes working with a sponge then final touchup with sandpaper will work.

Any sander with a vacuum attached - pole sander with vac attachment, or orbital with vac - will save you a lot of mess and time cleaning up.

Wear breathing protection, too, even if it's only a paper respirator.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Smithanator said:


> I guess I just need someone to say its going to be fine. It doesn't really hurt anymore


Your eyes will be fine, as long as the gypsum worms didn't lay any eggs.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Your eyes will be fine, as long as the gypsum worms didn't lay any eggs.


That is just cruel...:whistling


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

No eggs. So I guess Iam good. Ya I wore my wife dr. Mask Lol That all I had on hand


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)

Be kind. I have a couple spot not great. But good. ( I think) for rookie. Ps don't tell me to sand more plastic is down and floors are moped


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## Smithanator (Feb 18, 2013)




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