# sink draining to slow



## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

All new plumbing has been installed.apparently there was a problem venting the kitchen sink (windows and obstructions),so the plumber puts an island vent in downstairs with a p-trap in the basement. My freind calls me over and asked if i could help install the new sink ,the problem is the waste line coming out of the wall was too high,so it needed the p-trap to drop the height to connect the tail piece to the sink.The sink is draining way too slow, i'm assuming too many traps now?. I guess the only fix is to break open the wall under the sink base and cut the waste line down lower and install a 45 and just remove the trap under the sink?


----------



## The plumber (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm not really getting the image in my head, but a drain should never be double trapped. The trap needs to be under the sink and I do not know why there would be a trap in the basement. If you could post a picture it would help. Did this not get inspected?


----------



## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

Our plumber Bruce showed us this method of island venting recently.
Does your vent look like this?
island vent


----------



## Herk (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm not sure what you're talking about. An island sink doesn't have a trap under the floor.

Island Sink (illustrated)

(edited to add: Whoops, A.W. beat me to it . . .)


----------



## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

Herk said:


> I'm not sure what you're talking about. An island sink doesn't have a trap under the floor.
> 
> Island Sink (illustrated)
> 
> (edited to add: Whoops, A.W. beat me to it . . .)


Ah ha. It certainly don't look like that! What the heII was this plumber thinking. There is a p-trap under the floor and its vented ,the pipe comes up behind the sink base and in. I'll try and get a picture tomorrow. Looks like its all wrong from those pictures.


----------



## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

the only time I have seen traps under the floor is for tubs and showers. You sure that was a plumber and not a handyman?


----------



## The plumber (Jul 5, 2007)

If it is trapped under the sink and then 90s down that is an s-trap and it's illegal due to the trap sucking vacuum that it creates. There should be a sanitaty tee in the wall that the trap arm/sink drain goes directly in to. Above this san-t there needs to be some form of a vent like an island vent or studor vent. I prefer the island vent.

I would ask to see that license


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

A fixture that is double trapped will become airbound, and drain painfully slow.


----------



## aWorkaHolic (Oct 1, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> A fixture that is double trapped will become airbound, and drain painfully slow.


Wouldn't installing a stuedder(sp*) valve help relieve that??


----------



## The plumber (Jul 5, 2007)

aWorkaHolic said:


> Wouldn't installing a stuedder(sp*) valve help relieve that??


Why not just rip it out and do it right? It would be hard to install a studor vent between the traps to relieve the pressure, plus it is frowned upon to put a studor vent that far beneath the flood level rim of a fixture if you put it in the basement


----------



## aWorkaHolic (Oct 1, 2007)

The plumber said:


> If it is trapped under the sink and then 90s down that is an s-trap and it's illegal due to the trap sucking vacuum that it creates. *There should be a sanitaty tee in the wall that the trap arm/sink drain goes directly in to. Above this san-t there needs to be some form of a vent like an island vent or studor vent.* I prefer the island vent.
> 
> I would ask to see that license


 I didn't read your first response, that is what I envisioned.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

This "S" trap, covers those suckers that trap and then sweep back down through the floor? I've had a few women that had their "designers" sell these thing to them.


----------



## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

The plumber said:


> Why not just rip it out and do it right? It would be hard to install a studor vent between the traps to relieve the pressure, plus it is frowned upon to put a studor vent that far beneath the flood level rim of a fixture if you put it in the basement


I'm beginning to see those Studor vents in some very wrong applications. I saw a garage full bathroom with nothing but Studor vents. They were terminating in the wall....the walls weren't rocked yet. The gc said that there would be openings in the wall...yeah right.

I did the small and quick repair and got the heck out of there. I wouldn't give the customer a receipt and demanded cash because I didn't want a paper trail to that abortion.

In a another Studor vent example, it was venting a full bathroom in a cabin. The Studor was located in the basement, a good 5' below the fixtures.

Someone ought to complain about Studor vents....


----------



## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

Putty Truck said:


> I'm beginning to see those Studor vents in some very wrong applications. I saw a garage full bathroom with nothing but Studor vents. They were terminating in the wall....the walls weren't rocked yet. The gc said that there would be openings in the wall...yeah right.
> 
> I did the small and quick repair and got the heck out of there. I wouldn't give the customer a receipt and demanded cash because I didn't want a paper trail to that abortion.
> 
> ...


I'm right there with you putty , I see that all over studor vents in the attic and the whole system either revented into 1 studor vent or each vent have a studor on it.


----------



## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

nywoodwizard said:


> All new plumbing has been installed.apparently there was a problem venting the kitchen sink (windows and obstructions),so the plumber puts an island vent in downstairs with a p-trap in the basement. My freind calls me over and asked if i could help install the new sink ,the problem is the waste line coming out of the wall was too high,so it needed the p-trap to drop the height to connect the tail piece to the sink.The sink is draining way too slow, i'm assuming too many traps now?. I guess the only fix is to break open the wall under the sink base and cut the waste line down lower and install a 45 and just remove the trap under the sink?


CAN I SE YOUR PLUMBING LICENSE PLEASE?:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

Here's what it looks like ,the pipe leading off the trap goes to the sink upstairs,the other goes to the vent stack,i can see its going to be a mess to fix,kitchen is complete with granite tops.The cabinet back would have to be cut open to make the proper repairs,from the look of the photos i've seen.


----------



## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

forgot the picture ,here it is


----------



## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

why would you need to open the cabinet back? Just drill two holes in the floor inside the cabinet and then through the sub floor and install a new drain and vent loop. abandon and cap off the inaccessible pipe behind the cabinet.


----------



## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

A W Smith said:


> why would you need to open the cabinet back? Just drill two holes in the floor inside the cabinet and then through the sub floor and install a new drain and vent loop. abandon and cap off the inaccessible pipe behind the cabinet.


pardon me,i just took to many dummy pills today :w00t:
i guess i was just thinking cosmetics. the cabinet its stepped out 4" off the wall,i was just considering removing the back, installing the new piping where it can't be seen and just put a new back in. But if my knucklehead friend don't mind i'll do it thru the floor of the cabinet. thanks


----------



## The plumber (Jul 5, 2007)

The damage is done so the easiest fix without demo would be to get rid of that trap below the floor. Throw a sanitary tee with a riser coming up after the trap under the cabinets and put a studor vent as high as you can get it under the sink. Or you can cut out the back of the cabinets and run an island vent. I would do the island vent, but I figured Id give you another option.
I do not see any primer on those pipes either.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Plumber---
Earlier you said somewhere that "S" traps are illegal? This "S" trap, covers those suckers that trap and then sweep back down through the floor? I've had a few women that had their "designers" sell these thing to them.


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

neolitic said:


> Plumber---
> Earlier you said somewhere that "S" traps are illegal? This "S" trap, covers those suckers that trap and then sweep back down through the floor? I've had a few women that had their "designers" sell these thing to them.


A straight "S" trap is a natural siphon, if you install a "P" trap with a minimum of four inches of horizontal run, it is no longer an "S" trap.


----------



## The plumber (Jul 5, 2007)

neolitic said:


> Plumber---
> Earlier you said somewhere that "S" traps are illegal? This "S" trap, covers those suckers that trap and then sweep back down through the floor? I've had a few women that had their "designers" sell these thing to them.


They are illegal in all states that I know of. They do still sell them though. I have seen brushed pewter s traps at home depot that are very attractive, but can't be installed here legally. Makes no since to me why they sell them. I guess it can be compared to the gas station selling crack pipes and bongs in a glass display. Legal to sell, but not legal to use as intended


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

The plumber said:


> They are illegal in all states that I know of. They do still sell them though. I have seen brushed pewter s traps at home depot that are very attractive, but can't be installed here legally. Makes no since to me why they sell them. I guess it can be compared to the gas station selling crack pipes and bongs in a glass display. Legal to sell, but not legal to use as intended


Good, cause I've been telling them we can't put them in. Seemed like it would over ride the vent--and make a big PITA for floor tile among other things. Two of them were for those "furniture" type vanities with the ball & claw legs and all?
Anyway, I haven't _:thumbup:_ been lying at all!


----------

