# This is CRAZY..



## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

I found a ton of these fliers all over the road, Tell me what you think of this. I will not say the business name..


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

joe lawnmower wants to hardscape or office boy weekender


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

Please say the company name!:laughing:

That is crazy!


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

I think people that sign up for the annual contract wil be paying $499 for a couple of mowings. There is no way any clown/hack/vandal will stay in business averaging $16 per visit.

Whats the goin rate for paver installation?


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## LawnBoy6212 (Jan 18, 2005)

what an idiot.....someone should ask to see his pesticide license, too...


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

PressurePros said:


> I think people that sign up for the annual contract wil be paying $499 for a couple of mowings. There is no way any clown/hack/vandal will stay in business averaging $16 per visit.
> 
> Whats the goin rate for paver installation?


 anywhere from $13.00 to $20.00 Sq/ft we are at $16.00 Sq/ft


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Just a typical "teaser" advertisement with no details. Cheap advertising without the pretty girls. You will find these in every market

It says - "FROM" or "AS LOW AS".

Pretty obvious it is not a quotation or a price list, but it is a door opener.

He may get the opportunity to make a quote on the actual job.

Will you get an opportunity to bid?

Many of the people that will contact him may be the type you do not want to do business with anyway.


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

concretemasonry said:


> Just a typical "teaser" advertisement with no details. Cheap advertising without the pretty girls. You will find these in every market
> 
> It says - "FROM" or "AS LOW AS".
> 
> ...



I hate to say this but...that price is for Del Web Sun City one price for any size lot??? Talked to a few other LCO's and they were just laughing at it..


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

There is no going rate for paver installation.

Each job is completly different. I might be at 25 a sq for a curved walkway, but be at 9 bucks a sq for a wide open driveway,


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

ruskent said:


> There is no going rate for paver installation.
> 
> Each job is completly different. I might be at 25 a sq for a curved walkway, but be at 9 bucks a sq for a wide open driveway,


Ok???? Whats your point???? There is a going rate here for paver installs. 9 bucks a sq foot??? You can have them all..


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## NightScenes (Jan 11, 2006)

AG. I don't do that kind of work (lawn care) but I would say that at that price, for what he is offering, he'll get his money and be gone in no time flat!!


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

nightscapespaul said:


> AG. I don't do that kind of work (lawn care) but I would say that at that price, for what he is offering, he'll get his money and be gone in no time flat!!



Hello nightscapespaul, how is everything?? Well the best part about there flier is that most people will look at this and say yea right how can they do everything for that price and just throw it away. We have not lost one customer from this and my prices are high.. we do the job the right way and they keep coming back for more..


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## NightScenes (Jan 11, 2006)

Same here. I charge quite a bit more than everyone else for what I do but I do it right and retain all of my clients.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Always Greener said:


> Ok???? Whats your point???? There is a going rate here for paver installs. 9 bucks a sq foot??? You can have them all..


What are you trying to say? On wide open areas with LARGE square footage i have bid in the 9 bucks a square range. Doing a 100x100 square flat parking lot in a herringbone pattern is SOOO much different than doing a walkway, patio or pool deck.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> What are you trying to say? On wide open areas with LARGE square footage i have bid in the 9 bucks a square range. Doing a 100x100 square flat parking lot in a herringbone pattern is SOOO much different than doing a walkway, patio or pool deck.


how come???

what makes you go from $25 down to $9 


Only reason I can see is that maybe less cuts are required??? just wild guess though

im interested - hit me!


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Dirt- Here is the scoop.

On a 10,000 sq foot paver job, you hire our a excavating company or a asphalt company to do the prep work. They excavate and put down the base material with their vibatory rollers and graders in 2 days. On wide open areas, laying speed increases termendously. 4 guys could easily lay 3k sq feet a day. 


And yes there are normally less cuts on the larger jobs are alot of stright line cuts which are easy.

This is why anyone who uses a going rate for pavers is dumb.

Most of the time walkways are the most expensive per a sq, then patios/pool decks, and then driveways and other large areas.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Dirt- Here is the scoop.
> 
> On a 10,000 sq foot paver job, you hire our a excavating company or a asphalt company to do the prep work. They excavate and put down the base material with their vibatory rollers and graders in 2 days. On wide open areas, laying speed increases termendously. 4 guys could easily lay 3k sq feet a day.
> 
> ...


hmmm ...

just cuz im tonights Saturday Night Loser ... let me do the math (guesstimating)


ok ... 10,000 sq. ft. ... at $9/sq. ft.

90,000 gross

sub-base of stone (21-A?) - what, 6 inches???
can't remember what thickness of sand is ... oh well for now


Excavation/Prepwork

full day w/ loader to remove topsoil and spread/grade stone
half day with vib. Roller
hmm ... how do you screed the sand on such a large area??? (anyways, moving on)

Pallet of Cambridge or EP Henry (is that the right name) - around what? $400 


Pallet yields what ... 100 sq. ft. ???


So ...

1 Day Loader - $1,200
1/2 Day Roller - $600 (wild guess)
275 tons 21/A - $6875
150 tons washed sand - $4,500 (educated guess on quantity)
Pavers - $40,000
Total Materials = $53,175

Let's pad this 10% for math error = $58,492


At $9/ft. - if 4 guys can lay the pavers in 4 days, 2 days in prep

roughly $30,000 gross profit in a week



hmm ... not a paver guy ... i am off somewhere ... paver cost perhaps??? (if a pallet was $700 ... i'd be sunk ...)



but ... if I'm right ... Monday morning I'm getting into pavers:laughing:


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

ok here is the price break down...

10k sq feet.

Pavers = 2 bucks a square foot for the cheapos that would be used on a job this size.

pavers = 22000 with tax/deliver
base 12in = $5500
sand 1in = $800
edging and spikes =$1500
geo textile = $700
joint sand =$400
Taco Bell lunches $315

Total material = Around $32,000

Labor for soil excavation and base installation =

30 tri axles of dirt trucked out plus 420ish yards of base installed 25k

So we are around 55k is material and hired labor.

Now most likely 5 days laying pavers, 1 day cuts, and 1 day clean up.

So 7 days. 4 workers. 8 hours a day. 224 man hours $156 an hour..

When its all said and done it proably works out to 75 a hour since the guys will all be dead the following week and not be able to work!

Honestly, larger paver jobs like this go for way less then 9 bucks a square even in my area.

Large jobs go extremly fast.

To put things in perspective i am figuring 8 days to lay 1400 sq of bluestone (identical thickness) around a pool with 3 guys. This is start to finish, minus excavation.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> ok here is the price break down...
> 
> 10k sq feet.
> 
> ...



ok - to summarize ...

we've got about a $6/ft. project cost
and a $3/ft. gross profit


now here's where i lose you

i didn't include hauling off topsoil (20-25 loads) --- but if I did, I'd only have about $5,000 in that

where do you get $25,000 from ...

im hung up on that


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

ruskent said:


> What are you trying to say? On wide open areas with LARGE square footage i have bid in the 9 bucks a square range. Doing a 100x100 square flat parking lot in a herringbone pattern is SOOO much different than doing a walkway, patio or pool deck.


I guess I can see your point????But I don't lower my price just because it's an easier job..I like to make extra money because business insurance ,gas, health insurance and workmen's comp and everything else, don't change there rates because I do a job for less money..


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

dirt diggler said:


> ok - to summarize ...
> 
> we've got about a $6/ft. project cost
> and a $3/ft. gross profit
> ...


Honestly i am just pulling numbers out of my arse. I have never dealt with any thing more then 3k sq feet.

That price was for all the excavation, installing 425ish yards of base, compacting and grading it perfect. This is subbing all this out.

Maybe it would cost less. I do not know what a company would charge for that, i was just estimating.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Honestly i am just pulling numbers out of my arse. I have never dealt with any thing more then 3k sq feet.
> 
> That price was for all the excavation, installing 425ish yards of base, compacting and grading it perfect. This is subbing all this out.
> 
> Maybe it would cost less. I do not know what a company would charge for that, i was just estimating.


Ok ... I'll revise my estimate (my pavers were twice as expensive as yours)

$22,000 in pavers... (they must be cheapies)

1 Day Loader - $1,200
1/2 Day Roller - $600 (wild guess)
275 tons 21/A - $6875
150 tons washed sand - $4,500 (educated guess on quantity)
Pavers - $22,000

Total = $35,175

Now - for about 400 loads of topsoil to get hauled - lets say about $5,000

so, roughly $40K in costs


$4 material
$5 gross profit ....

im in a hurry now gotta run ...


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Let me get this rite. In 1 day with 1 loader you will excate all that dirt and install all that base?


And then you are going to grade it with no more then a 1/8in height varation over 8 feet, pitched all correctly with just a loader?!?!? Your going to need a grader to get that larger of a area graded perfectly!


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Let me get this rite. In 1 day with 1 loader you will excate all that dirt and install all that base?
> 
> 
> And then you are going to grade it with no more then a 1/8in height varation over 8 feet, pitched all correctly with just a loader?!?!? Your going to need a grader to get that larger of a area graded perfectly!


i'd like to ... but let's go ahead and add another day

hell, at $5/ft gross profit on a 10,000 sq. ft. job - i'll buy you a Honda Accord if it makes you happyarty:


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

It doesn't matter what the square foot pricing would actually be on a large job. But do you atleast see why larger areas are prices differently?


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> It doesn't matter what the square foot pricing would actually be on a large job. But do you atleast see why larger areas are prices differently?


sh*t ...

im getting into pavers tomorrow

heheh:shifty: :laughing:


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Honestly, some guys would come in and bid the job 1 dollar a square for labor.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Honestly, some guys would come in and bid the job 1 dollar a square for labor.


good


let em bleed to death from being unable to pay their own health insurance


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Hey i don't have health insurance yet!


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Hey i don't have health insurance yet!


hack















you NEED to get it now ...


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Hey i don't have health insurance yet!



One of the benefits of marriage!


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

Where did this thread take a turn?? :laughing:


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Is this the longest thread in the landscaping section yet?


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

yes it is....:thumbup: :clap:


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## ckc (Dec 22, 2006)

it also depends on location and soil conditions... I'm outside of Philly and average between $15-22 per sq ft for pavers. 60 miles away in Jersey they average between $9-15 per sq because they are all sand and install base different for the most part. Just my 2 cents...


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ckc said:


> it also depends on location and soil conditions... I'm outside of Philly and average between $15-22 per sq ft for pavers. 60 miles away in Jersey they average between $9-15 per sq because they are all sand and install base different for the most part. Just my 2 cents...



oh yeah - you're right
that could be true too. ....

i bid (the above) with 6" base....

what if it'd have to be on 24" of base?? idda been sunk


doesn't matter ... someone went and did it for $1/ft anyways:laughing:


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

I did it for 12inch of base since i assumed it was a vehicular application!


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

don't forget to sell the topsoil & sod on the way home


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

looks let rusk/matt just took ya to school dirt lol..
where not in our basement forum... this is matts house lol


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

This is actually one of the first times i ever posted in the landscaping section! I do not even regular read this section!

I spend more of my time in the business section.....trying to figure out how to run a biz!


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

POOLMANinCT said:


> looks let rusk/matt just took ya to school dirt lol..
> where not in our basement forum... this is matts house lol


Whos house???? :no:


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## NightScenes (Jan 11, 2006)

Man, I'm glad I don't do landscape or hardscape!! I'll stick to my lighting of the "scapes".


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

nightscapespaul said:


> Man, I'm glad I don't do landscape or hardscape!! I'll stick to my lighting of the "scapes".


LOL ..Yea this is the darkside.. I should see the light soon...:laughing:


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

POOLMANinCT said:


> looks let rusk/matt just took ya to school dirt lol..
> where not in our basement forum... this is matts house lol


took your mom to school:laughing: 


back to the safety of the pool/spa forum:shifty:


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## Always Greener (Dec 22, 2005)

dirt diggler said:


> took your mom to school:laughing:
> 
> 
> back to the safety of the pool/spa forum:shifty:



Lets play nice guys...:laughing:


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