# Too good not to share



## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

To make a very long story short...here is one of my prospective clients. We haven't signed anything yet but since they had concept drawings for their reno & addition to their home, I gave them a rough break down on costs.

The next step is for them to sign with me for pre-construction services. Before they do...they said they have a "laundry list" of questions. I said "Sure, send them to me".

Well...they...were....not....kidding...:blink:

Please bear in mind...this is just for PRE-CONSTRUCTION. I break my jobs up into 2 phases: Pre-construction and Actual construction. That's 2 separate contracts. At pre-construction, I put together concept drawings, permit drawings, detail/section drawings, a SOW, transparent budget, bids from subs, committee of adjustments/zoning passes...aka the "design package". Whether we actually contract for the actual work or not is up to them/me. They can take the package and have it bid on by others...I don't care. 


I've had people ask me questions...but nobody ever wrote it all out and asked me to type the answers back...and it has to be in RED. :laughing:

Without further A-do :laughing:...





*Dear Peter,*

*Here are some questions that we have regarding the house renovation. We appreciate your time and effort in the pre-planning stage and look forward to your assistance in answering these questions. Please place your answers underneath the questions in red.*

*General Questions:*
1) Will you be using subcontractors on this project?
a.  If so, are your subcontractors licensed to work in these areas (such as plumbing, roofing, etc.)?
 i. *What is the average length of time they have worked for you?*
2) *How many jobs does your company have in progress right now?*
3) *What is the average number of jobs you do at the same time?*
4) *Do you have any other outstanding bids right now?*
a. If these turn into jobs, will our job drop to the bottom of the list?
5) *How do you manage your jobs on a day-to day basis?*
a. Who checks for quality, mistakes and progress?
6) *Who will be on-site and in charge of our home each day?*
a. *Will we have access to this person’s name, email and phone number?*
7) *Have you or your company ever been sued before?*
8) *Have you or your company ever sued anyone or filed mechanics liens before?*
a. What happened? Why the disagreement?
9) *What has been your best building experience?*
10) *What are your business ambitions?*
11) *What is the longest amount of down-time you experienced between jobs?*
12) * Who were your two best customers? Why?*
13) *Who were your two worst customers? Why?*
14) *Have you/your company ever caused/been involved in an accident that caused someone to receive hospital treatment or be hospitalized?*
15) *Do you plan to vacation during our job?*
a. If so, who will manage in your absence?
16) *Who are your top 3 material suppliers?*
17) Do you have public liability and property damage insurance?
18) Do you have workers’ compensation medical insurance?
a. If so, are your sub-contractors covered for the medical insurance
19) Have you ever worked on a project that is similar to our home?
a. If so, what were some of the main challenges that you faced during construction? 
b. And how did you time-manage the situation, and insure that you stayed close to the budget?
20) How would you handle a specific problem related to this project?
21) Could we have a list of 15 home references?
22) How and when do you clean up, particularly fine dust?
23) Does Nostco give written warranties?
24) To which professional associations do you belong?
a. *Do you attend regular meetings or hold an office within the association?*
*
*
*House Specific Questions:*
25) Could you start our renovation with the garage?
a. Could you start in the spring?
26) Will we have the opportunity to store our belongings in the basement while construction is going on?
27) Who would conduct our home inspection?
28) In regards to our roof, if we decided to slant the roof down, would that compromise the size of the garage? Are there any other options?
29) What are some cost effective ways that we could handle the entrance?
30) Do we require blueprints or building plans?
31) The attic entrance now resides in the master bedroom, is it possible to change that location?
32) Can you reposition the central vacuuming system into the garage?

*Spreadsheet Specific Questions:*
33) Were appliances included in the final price?
34) Line 157, Labour - $16,000
a. Please provide further breakdown of this labour
b. What is it referring to?
35) There are blank rows in the spreadsheet, are these services included in the project? If not, why? (example…Line 8-16 – Soft costs)
36) Are washroom facilities for your staff(sub-contractors) included in the cost?
37) Line 405, Toilets - $400
a. We will be reusing our existing toilets (2)
38) Line 84 - $4,000
a. We are removing the columns from the plans
39) Line 107, Stone Masonry - $5,000
a. Please describe what this entails
40) Line 146, Railing
a. What type of material will be used for the railing? 
41) Line 184, Bathrooms
a. Does this price reflect all 3 bathroom renovations from the plans?
b. We have decided to take the bathroom number back down to 2 (Plans will be re-drawn)
42) Line 210, Roofing - $3,500
a. Is this just for the garage roof?
43) Line 294, Drywall 
a. How much space will we lose in a room if drywall is applied?
b. Please describe a before and after scenario
44) Can you install a pre-fabricated shower stall and kitchen cabinets?
a. Will this affect the labour costs?
45) Line 338, Carpets - $2,000
a. We will only be using carpeting for the basement
46) Line 394, Plumbing - $3,000
a. Does this include internal and external pricing?
47) Line 456, Landscaping-Sub
a. What is this for?
b. We may have our own landscaper to the external landscaping 
48) We have calculated that roughly $40,500 of the project is going to labour costs, how can you assist in lowering this cost to suit our budget?

*Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. We look forward to hearing back from you.*
*Sincerely,*
*Debra and Kaeisha ***x*


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

Speechless... wow...


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

Doesn't sound excessive to me. Can you not answer any of them honestly?


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

wow, thats pretty thorough. They gonna make you take a drug test before work starts or give blood samples?


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

Most of the "General Questions" you should ask them back. Oh and get a SSN and credit score from them. Ask them how much they have in the bank(savings, checking, bonds, cds, etc):laughing:


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

question #48 :furious: isnt this why we should try not to do breakdowns for our customers. almost everytime especially in this economy thats exactly what there looking for to save at our expense

good luck


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## Deckem (Jan 27, 2011)

_ I would add about $10,000.00 as a communication charge, these type of customers will be calling you every hour with new questions. _
_What is this labour they keep refering too? Is this the French word for Labor????_
_Just some personal advise here, I don't mind customers wanting information, they should, but they are asking for somethings that are really none of their business._
_ References, our policy is three that are comparative, we respect our customers privacy and won't overload them unnecessarily._
_Best and worst customers.... there all good customers, nothing negitive_
_Lawsuits, not our policy to discuss, good, bad or indifferent_
_Suppliers, by having many stay competitive, but could be a good reference_
_Vaction schedule.. too personal, assuming you have qualified people to handle this project. Anything about you personell should be kept to the company's professional staff. _


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## MAD Renovations (Nov 18, 2007)

They are certainly doing thier due diligence.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

That's unreal.

You really need this one that bad? 

One customer like this would destroy any construction companies ability to manage any other projects at the same time. There one project with somebody like this will take up a companies time that they would commit to three projects at the same time. 

You might want to tell them, they have so many questions and you don't have the time it will take to answer all of these in writing, and tell them the normal procedure is for the client to sponsor a dinner meeting at Hashimoto and they can ask you all the questions they want from at that time.


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## charlie828 (Feb 22, 2009)

Some of the General Questions seem a bit excessive. 15 home references? Most of the rest seem OK. I usually wind up answering them verbally during discussions. I have a tendency to talk a lot and wave my arms around at the same time. Cuts down on e-mails. Just a wild guess, but by any chance are these folks attorneys? If they are, you will earn your money. Good luck.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Wow. Just wow.

Most of it seems pretty innocuous... But there are few in there that would give me cause to pause. 

If they're that thorough... are you sure you didn't mean to post this in Hard Hat?


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

jmiller said:


> Doesn't sound excessive to me. Can you not answer any of them honestly?


Are you serious?

Some of these questions are legitimate, some are out of line, many are just not called for. I don't have an issue responding to reasonable questions. You want me to give you FIFTEEN references? Do I have any other OUTSTANDING bids right now? What has been my BEST BUILDING EXPERIENCE? etc., etc., etc. 

Sorry Buddy, if you've got time to answer all these questions, you've got way too much time on your hands! 

I don't think there's any question as to where this is headed if this is already going on before any work gets started......

We all have DIY, Holmes, HGTV, etc. to thank for this!

I went and estimated 2 jobs today (both bathroom reno's). Both brought up Holmes on Holmes. The 2nd one mentioned she's now heard that she shouldn't be paying ANY money up front until the job is 100% complete because of all the contractor fraud out there. I spent awhile educating them, but I'll make sure my "extra / wasted time costs" are covered for sure.

I run a tight ship, above board, and completely legit. I stand behind everything (and plus) I do, but this is getting ridiculous.......:blink:Sheeeesh!:blink:


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## FHS (Apr 24, 2010)

Run Run Run ...dont Walk Run!

Nag nag nag, They are gonna be all over you thru the whole project.

I think you know how to proceed and have delt with people like this before, I know I have and thats why I wont do work for them. Most of the questions should have already been covered.

The breakdown in labor is kinda bs in my book. And personal questions are a bit too much.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Holy, where do you find these clients?

I honestly wouldn't know how to respond to that other than maybe change my phone number. :whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Hell, I missed the spot where you stated how much the fee was for this analysis...did you charge enough?


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## ExtremePride (Oct 27, 2010)

Sounds like trouble to me. The last contractor I worked for had a client ask questions like that. We did the job, but they were breathing down our backs the whole time. Good Luck


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

ChrWright said:


> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> Most of it seems pretty innocuous... But there are few in there that would give me cause to pause.
> 
> If they're that thorough... are you sure you didn't mean to post this in Hard Hat?


I'm with Chris on this one, move it to HH.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Wow....



> 14) Have you/your company ever caused/been involved in an accident that caused someone to receive hospital treatment or be hospitalized?


No....not by accident....:laughing:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

no way, unless my kids were starving. And a "couple" also....I see nothing but trouble, including line 48.


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## wellbuilt home (Oct 22, 2007)

hay that isn't so bad , 
I answer most of those questions in my contract or at a construction meetings . 
Every one wants you to do some thing about # 48 :laughing: . 
Its really like my kinda job , Most guys wont even price a job like that , and the hacks couldn't keep up with the questions . 
If i have a customer like that i just call them before work 600 am and after work 800 pm and one call in the after noon. 
It takes 30 minutes and they get tiered of talking to me in a few weeks . John


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## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

Sometimes in an interview process people will ask questions that the specific answer to the question matters less to them than the manner and tone in which you answer. 

These people want to know that you have been doing this successfully for a long period of time and that you know what you are doing and can handle all situations. 

I would think out your answers and call and have a conversation with them. These people want some hand holding!


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I usually just tell the HO's that I've been doing this since puberty. But now every year I'm loosing some more brain cells and forgetting things. So hurry up and sign the contract before I forget who you are. :laughing:


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Heritage, Hit the button! :whistling


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## Main Street (Mar 26, 2009)

*Tough Client*

The list reminds me of a contractor friend who built a house for a doctor. The doc was fine, but his wife was never pleased. After completion, they had to replaster all ceilings because she said she saw lines in them, had to redo floors (wood) because they were not perfect and a thousand other things had to be reworked. 
It's tough money to make, but "it'll make you a better man" (if you survive the stress).
...and put it in the contract that they cannot watch DIY channel.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:blink:


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

carolinahandyma said:


> Sometimes in an interview process people will ask questions that the specific answer to the question matters less to them than the manner and tone in which you answer.
> 
> These people want to know that you have been doing this successfully for a long period of time and that you know what you are doing and can handle all situations.
> 
> I would think out your answers and call and have a conversation with them. These people want some hand holding!


this is true but they asked for the answers in "red" which means it would have to be written or typed. seems a lil much- i wonder if those questions are straight out of some book. "how to hire a contractor" for dummies:blink:


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

svronthmve said:


> Are you serious?/


are you even any good at what you do?

[quote}Some of these questions are legitimate, some are out of line, many are just not called for. I don't have an issue responding to reasonable questions. You want me to give you FIFTEEN references? Do I have any other OUTSTANDING bids right now? What has been my BEST BUILDING EXPERIENCE? etc., etc., etc. [/quote]
Or what. sit at home?



> Sorry Buddy, if you've got time to answer all these questions, you've got way too much time on your hands!


 oh, and you're the one on the forum!


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

J F said:


> :blink:


That's it? No humour?


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

That _is_ humor


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

48]We have calculated that roughly $40,500 of the project is going to labour costs, how can you assist in lowering this cost to suit our budget?

_Translation: It appears that you intend to make a reasonable profit for all of your hard work, but we have absolutely no intention of letting that happen._


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm pretty sure Heritage knows how to handle this one.

I know a roof is much more simple to explain the process of but I couldn't imagine even getting a more than 10 question list, much less a 50 question one with sub titles.

Yikes. Smack my thumb with a hammer now please.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

DuMass said:


> 48]We have calculated that roughly $40,500 of the project is going to labour costs, how can you assist in lowering this cost to suit our budget?
> 
> _Translation: It appears that you intend to make a reasonable profit for all of your hard work, but we have absolutely no intention of letting that happen._


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Heritage - for a small fee of let's say $15,000 I'll take them off your hands, but can't start their job till September.

Now THAT'S humour. :shutup:


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

wow... the "home specific" questions seem ok, and some of the general ones

but 15 references?? will you be on vacation while our job is in progress?

"Yes, there is a good chance I will be travelling somewhere far, far away, without my red pen."

I think they have been watching/reading too much holmes on homes


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Google this line: ". If so, are your subcontractors licensed to work in these areas (such as plumbing, roofing, etc.)?" and you will find where they got many of their questions.

Google some of the other questions and I'll bet the rest of the questions turn up.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Heritage said:


> To make a very long story short...here is one of my prospective clients.


:no:

That's a prospective employer, and as such, has the right to ask you those questions.

As the supplicant seeking work, it is your choice as to how many of those questions you are willing to answer. :thumbsup:


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## carpentershane (Feb 9, 2009)

Wouldn't it have been easier to ask:
What is your name?
What is your quest?
What is your favorite color?

and Can we get it done cheaper?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> 13) *Who were your two worst customers? Why*


Mr. and Mrs. ******** Asked too many unnecessary questions.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

i wouldn't even bother with this one. just move on.

how many line items do you put on your spreadsheet? 

I don't break down my jobs that much. I can't imagine giving someone that many line items to pick apart.

i describe what we are doing to do in detail, each aspect of the job. and give them a price with allowance that are built in. if they want to do the job, that is the price. I very RARELY break it down into what costs what. other than fixtures and other finish materials that they have to choose.
etc.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Wow. I stopped at like question 20. I must be a hack.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

I just got in and sent her this email:

_Hello Debra,_

_First and foremost I would like to thank you for considering Noscto Construction for the proposed work to your home. I read over your attachment of questions and quite frankly I do not feel that we can meet your expectations. At this time, we respectfully decline to answer the questions and would like to excuse ourselves as prospective contractors for the project. Please accept the consultation, site visit, preliminary plan review and line item preliminary transparent budget as our gift._

_It was very nice meeting you and your family and I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your proposed project._

_Regards,_
_Peter _

I really didn't want to go into the "actual" reasons as to why. They wouldn't understand and think I'm an egomaniac attacking them or putting them down rather than what it should really be...a wake up call. Some people are just not worth it...they'll do what they set out to do no matter who says what, so let it be I figure.

BTW, I met these people at the fall home show and before I really buckled down, dug my spurs in on the "no free site visits/estimates/appraisals". I figured I could help them...not the first time I've been wrong.

I don't share everything I see...but this one was one out of left field and literally "Too good to not share" :laughing:

Man oh man...some people's kids huh?

"Bob the contractor"....:laughing:....what a guy that guy! I thoroughly enjoyed everyone's spin on this, that's some funny stuff right there fellas!:thumbsup:

With everything we all go through...at least we can laugh it off at the end of the day.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Sounds like a wise move.


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## JMP (Feb 20, 2011)

*Questions*

Nevermind


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

Bastien1337 said:


> *
> do you volunteer at church? *yes I do but its the church of Satan and I need to build the stage where we do our virgin sacrificial rituals. I missed last months one because I was working on job but I heard it was blast. The sausages came out well.
> *
> *


That was so funny all I can do is go to bed now. Cheers and Thanks.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Well done Heritage :thumbsup:


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## assets444 (Aug 20, 2010)

I have a couple of clients like this... They are the best advertising our company has EVER had. :whistling

When their family and friends here that we can work for them... they know we can work for anyone.

_*Disclaimer* you better have your contract in order to handle these types of clients!_


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

jmiller said:


> That was so funny all I can do is go to bed now. Cheers and Thanks.


:thumbsup:


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

Heritage said:


> I just got in and sent her this email:
> 
> _Hello Debra,_
> 
> ...



good for you, im interested to hear the follow up as I am sure there will be one.

we have the questions posted here so many times that the next time they google search them this page will probably come up.

yikes


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

It's very smart not to list "why" in an email. I'm willing to bet they go to bed wondering though.:laughing:

Mike


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Heritage,

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted. At least for you, it appears, reason prevailed!

As I've read all these posts, I just continue to be amazed at what (some) people will put up with and accept as reasonable and legitimate.

Oh well, I guess it takes all types to keep the world spinning and balanced!:notworthy


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## rallen (Sep 19, 2010)

I all about customer services but that makes my head hurt.


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## sbcontracting (Apr 22, 2010)

Are these two from the beaches by any chance? 

I'm sure you could have searched the internet for answers to those questions - might have even found the master list that the contractor who wrote the initial questions might provide to his clients.

Still - a classy response to a ridiculous request. Good on you.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> It's very smart not to list "why" in an email. I'm willing to bet they go to bed wondering though.:laughing:
> 
> Mike


mike - you know i want to click on your link but it wont let me:sad:


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

As you said near the beginning, Heritage, the "normal" amongst customers is changing. I have been in business for 32 years. The 20 and 30=somethings today, as compared to the same ages 20 years ago, have an incredible feeling of entitlement and have learned to expect miracles in your service. Nor do they accept excuses. Weather, traffic, late suppliers, whatever: all my fault, according to the client. But then, G-d forbid you ask for payment as soon as you're done. Seems you're supposed to wait a few days.
Many of them also seem to expect you to pay them for the priviedge of working for them.
What's worse is our potential exposure to the internet. Make one mistake and all of a sudden you are on Anie's List, or a blg somewhere and when potential clents google you it comes up. 
It's becoming harder and harder to do the work and get paid.

Oh, and for you Americans out there, "labor" is spelled "labour" in Canada.
So is "Colour", Metre" and a few others.
Even our money looks different.


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