# Hiring an older carpenter?



## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

I would hire him for his knowledge and experience.

Speed isn't as important to me as knowledge of the trade and
craftsmanship.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I doesn't matter what the business is, around here it's the older guys that think they know better that are problems.


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## Mr Knucklehead (May 31, 2014)

You probably cannot afford an "older" carpenter who can provide solid business advise and help jump start your business.


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

hdavis said:


> I doesn't matter what the business is, around here it's the older guys that think they know better that are problems.


So, you would rather young, guys ? who don't know AS much ?
But want to make more than you ?


I always figured the Older guys know how thing should be. Yes, they're are some that want a Slow elderly ride to retirement. But. I like 
skill RATHER THAN SPEED.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

jaydee said:


> So, you would rather young, guys ? who don't know AS much ?
> But want to make more than you ?
> 
> 
> ...


I think that skill almost always ends up equaling speed as well. Experienced guys do not look like they are balls to the walls at all times. But, you come back an hour later and a lot got done and correctly. That is the real trick. A lot of younger guys do a good job of looking busy, but I will take the smart older guy every time.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Warren said:


> In my youth, I often was in charge of a crew where almost everyone was older than me. I probably wouldn't like it in the future if the shoe is on the other foot. I would be a good asset for training new guys, but no way could I take orders from someone a lot younger. I guess that makes me a hypocrite.


I have run guys who were older than me since I started running guys. It is always rough getting to know one another, and getting them to see the situation, but it dont take long. I still talk to a lot of the older guys that were on my crew when was doing commercial. 

I would think it would be hard for the long time guy to work for me as he has known me since I was 8 years old, but its never been an issue that was noticeable. I mean he is almost like an uncle. I went into his house when I was 23, he lives alone, and there was a news paper clipping of me standing over Boernes QB when I was 16 next to his dresser. 

I think it depends on how the employer treats their employees. Other than a few "know it alls" I have never had an issue managing a good hand, old or young. A good employee. Lol. 

My brother is almost 28, he doesn't seem to have any issues either. He is very laid back though. 

I hope I never take orders from anyone ever again, but if I do, it wouldn't bother me if they were younger I dont think.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Warren said:


> I think that skill almost always ends up equaling speed as well. Experienced guys do not look like they are balls to the walls at all times. But, you come back an hour later and a lot got done and correctly. That is the real trick. A lot of younger guys do a good job of looking busy, but I will take the smart older guy every time.


Yep. 

My dad hasnt bagged up in more than 4 years for a paying job ( he works on cabinets in the shop every now and again if he feels like it) , and when we were trimming his new house recently, we worked seperate, and he seemed kinda of slow to me. He was never slow in my memory. 

He got a lot done, and his scrap pile was almost non existent. Work was tight as ever, and no screw up pieces that I saw.

Experience and systems, good combination.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I would hire an "older" guy for sure if his attitude was good. A real seasoned carpenter with a team player mindset would be a great asset. I don't want speed, I want accuracy and the job done right. Actually an older guy that doesn't want to go out on his own could prove to be the perfect employee.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

but don't old guys smell funny?


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

First off I find this a bit of an insulting question as if there's no members here at or over 50. I'm 56 and can probably have **** done before you even figure out what you're doing.

There are older guys out there in their 50's that act like they're in their 90's. Years they've been doing it doesn't always equal experience. The issue I have is it sounds as if you have no idea what you doing and you need someone with knowledge to "jumpstart" your business. If that's the case you'd better pay him good and treat him with respect, don't expect him to physically work his ass off if he's teaching and/or babysitting.

Most older guys don't mind working for someone younger, if he gets paid accordingly, if he can get the project done either his way or the proper way. What they don't like is taking orders with unrealistic expectations from anyone who are merely no nothing hacks.

With that said I don't care if you're older or younger just keep my babysitting to a minimum and I don't want to have fix your work.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> but don't old guys smell funny?


Lol..hell I smell funny some days!


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

Tom Struble said:


> but don't old guys smell funny?


not really

that's ben-gay and prune juice,, :laughing::laughing:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I sorta glanced through this thread.....

Hiring a really experienced FOG Carpenter can really open your eyes.

You will have to realize by default he is going to run the job or walk.

Be patient, watch & listen...

He may or may not have a speed sq. Likely he will have a frame square & know how to use it.

Leave your ego in the truck & be prepared to hump lumber on command...:thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

jaydee said:


> So, you would rather young, guys ? who don't know AS much ?
> But want to make more than you ?
> 
> 
> ...


You either adjust your system to your people or adjust your people to your system. If they won't adjust, it's a problem. If you adjust your system to your people, you keep changing your system. That's a problem too. In the end, it boils down to what problems you choose to live with.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

griz said:


> I sorta glanced through this thread.....
> 
> Hiring a really experienced FOG Carpenter can really open your eyes.
> 
> ...


This is probably what the OP needs, but that's a guess.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I can name a few old guys in this thread and on this forum id hire and let be my boss :whistling:laughing:


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Let's face it guys. On the roller coaster of life, 50 is the part where you're still screaming but you can see the bottom.:whistling


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## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

I would be nervous about hiring somebody that age, if somebody is in that age group and doesn't have steady employment or run his own show, there must be a reason. I'm not saying don't do it, but I would definitely make sure to have a probationary period to determine wether or not it's going to work out.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

RiverBG said:


> I would be nervous about hiring somebody that age, if somebody is in that age group and doesn't have steady employment or run his own show, there must be a reason. I'm not saying don't do it, but I would definitely make sure to have a probationary period to determine wether or not it's going to work out.


I have known a number of FOG's that are EXTREMELY experienced and have absolutely NO DESIRE to work for themselves. They make an extremely good living.

They go home at quitting with NO responsibilities...:thumbsup:


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## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

griz said:


> I have known a number of FOG's that are EXTREMELY experienced and have absolutely NO DESIRE to work for themselves. They make an extremely good living.
> 
> 
> 
> They go home at quitting with NO responsibilities...:thumbsup:



But are they looking for a job? I find most of the older carpenters around here that are experienced and good employees, are not looking for a job, they have one.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

RiverBG said:


> But are they looking for a job? I find most of the older carpenters around here that are experienced and good employees, are not looking for a job, they have one.


They get pissed off....

Get hired by a young wipper snapper and tell him to FO....

They want change and a challenge

So you've never been looking for a job?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Warren said:


> I would be a good asset for training new guys, but no way could I take orders from someone a lot younger. I guess that makes me a hypocrite.


Perspective from the old guy end:

I was like that from about 35-50, give or take. But these days I've gotten over that and what matters is whether I respect you and your basic understanding of the craft--and that includes you being willing to go along with what my experience says is the best way to get a job done, or at least discuss it rationally.

But in the end I have no problem with doing it your way if it makes any sense at all. It's your money, not mine.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> ...But in the end I have no problem with doing it your way if it makes any sense at all. It's your money, not mine....


The FOG's I know will NOT do it your way if it is fvcked up or makes no sense.

They will just make a call and go to the next job...

Remember, I am talking about an honest to God REAL Journeyman carpenter. They are few and far between and if you get one they call the shots, for a reason. They will make you money if you lose the ego.


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## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

griz said:


> They get pissed off....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess I'm the whipper snapper. :laughing: 

I have one employee and he is 54, he agreed to come work for me when I left my previous company to start out on my own. I always respect him and his opinion, and he works out great. 

That being said I see most people on there fifties who respond to help want ads have some sort of issue. Most good employees that age can make a couple calls and have a new job before the tell the old boss to FO. 
But that's just my humble opinion.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

You can, I use guys over 50 for employees. But know their limitations, they usually have a bad memory and will have a hard time following instruction. They also tend to be anti-technology. This day and age it takes just a few seconds to pull out your cell phone and write yourself a note if you need to remember something. But they didn't grow up with cell phones so they refuse to do that, which means you have to be the one constantly reminding them of things. And sometimes they can be slow, they might have injuries which will limit them, or they'll just move slow. 

But that's always been a problem with construction. If they've been around enough to know everything, then they get old. If they're young and energetic then they will probably need someone with them all the time to show them what to do. We can't master the trade when we're 25 unfortunately.


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## bbgcarpentry (Apr 11, 2009)

B's

You are out of your mind 50 you have the whole package experience strength and smarts.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I know a 65 yr old FOG that will show you stuff on your cell phone you had no idea it could do.

Now get him to your laptop or desktop and he will make your head spin.

FOG's are few and far between. If you are production framing, not your best choice.

Got a bastard house, or one w/a multi pitch/ridge roof just get out of the way.

They are not for everyday run of the mill work. They can and will do it but you are wasting their talents. The most important thing is for the boss to lose the ego. This guy has forgot more than you have....


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

KennMacMoragh said:


> You can, I use guys over 50 for employees. But know their limitations, they usually have a bad memory and will have a hard time following instruction. They also tend to be anti-technology. This day and age it takes just a few seconds to pull out your cell phone and write yourself a note if you need to remember something. But they didn't grow up with cell phones so they refuse to do that, which means you have to be the one constantly reminding them of things. And sometimes they can be slow, they might have injuries which will limit them, or they'll just move slow.
> 
> But that's always been a problem with construction. If they've been around enough to know everything, then they get old. If they're young and energetic then they will probably need someone with them all the time to show them what to do. We can't master the trade when we're 25 unfortunately.


Keep talking, eventually you'll say something believable.

But seriously, thanks for hiring from the soup kitchen - its good to know there are people willing to lower their standards and use only the lower end of the labor pool...
:laughing::laughing:

...now who hid my damnbed walker agin?:jester:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

One of the main reasons I started my own company is because I like things my way. Although I was a lead for a really cool framer. I have to say that because my old Foreman hangs out on here but silently. :laughing: I'm 50 and never work as hard as the younger guys but get a hell a lot more done. Then again maybe that's because I have assistants. :laughing:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

This thread is starting to remind me of the story about the old blind guy going to his VA appointment getting mugged. After taking a couple hits, the guy told the kid "Man, you aren't going to like what happens next". Ex Special Forces, you can guess the rest.

The point being is:

There is NO substitute for experience.

It isn't what you don't have, it's knowing what to do with what you DO have that counts.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> I'm 50 and never work as hard as the younger guys but get a hell a lot more done. Then again maybe that's because I have assistants. :laughing:


Or maybe you're lazy, and don't want to put out more effort than is needed to get it done:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

hdavis said:


> There is NO substitute for experience.
> 
> It isn't what you don't have, it's knowing what to do with what you DO have that counts.


Wise words. Very true. :thumbsup:


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

hdavis said:


> This thread is starting to remind me of the story about the old blind guy going to his VA appointment getting mugged. After taking a couple hits, the guy told the kid "Man, you aren't going to like what happens next". Ex Special Forces, you can guess the rest.
> 
> The point being is:
> 
> ...


It reminds me of the old and young bull standing up on a hill, looking down on some new heifers the rancher just bought. Young bull says " let's run down there and get us one of those" old bull says "no, let's walk down there and get 'em all"


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Or the old guy who had a belly out over his belt - Son, when you have a fine set of tools, you put a roof over them:whistling


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

One of my best guys was over 60 years old . He knew he stuff and was fit for his age . But died of lung cacner last year . Haven't found anyone to replace him .


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## EPAYNE (Jul 21, 2011)

Joasis said:


> Generally speaking, old guys do not work well for young guys. Lots of opportunity for resentment, as temperament can be an issue.


True, I started my business at 18. Starting out older employees, Subs and even clients did not take me seriously. I am 26 now with 7 employees. Three are over 50 and respect me, just takes time


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

skillman said:


> One of my best guys was over 60 years old . He knew he stuff and was fit for his age . But died of lung cacner last year . Haven't found anyone to replace him .


One of the best builders [G/C] I ever work for or worked with . Passed last year . My dad worked for him 30 years or more . I worked for him 6 years before he passed ... Fred Moore was a true builder ! At 78 he was still the man running the show .. Up on the stages .. Up on the roof , Not a damn thing passed by him without him knowing about It ! A TRUE hands on Contractor ! I miss Fred! He would always say when we pulled up on a job .. '' Hey ya Boys ! ya'll gonna do something for me today??


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## Mr Knucklehead (May 31, 2014)

You would be very lucky to get somebody in that age range mid 50's+ who is skilled, experienced and has their health. Somebody like that will run circles around 25yr-olds all day long.

That age range is the end of the baby boomers, the generation raised under one flag, the US Flag, the generation raised by WWII and Korean Vets, the generation when every kid addressed an adult first by saying Mr. or Mrs., the generation when the democratic party was not diluted by socialists, the generation that will work and not cry about getting wet, cold, or not taking a long lunch. 

Sorry kids, but you don't have the same work ethic as us older guys, you can't because you were not raised by the same standards. Some maybe, ( I won't paint you all with the same brush) because your parents may have instilled our work ethics. 

I'm sure there are lots here on this forum that fit that bill and if they hung up their tool belt to go work for another company they would be expected to be compensated handsomely. But company's are not willing to pay what they are worth so they continue to run their own show and will just fade away.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

I have hired "older" guys, who have been at it for many years, and it can be challenging. I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, and let him do it his way, but, when the end product doesn't look so tight, or, you want them to take extra steps, they can get testy. It's easier to tell a younger guy, how you want something done.


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## nailomatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Oh, absolutely. No problem. Friend of mine ... his father is over 70 years old and still helps with roofing. His father carries shingles up ladders. 

But it's the knowledge that helps the most. You can't beat all of that experience. Young guys make mistakes that can be avoided. 

Surgeons don't go in practice right after school. Too much to know. I think it's the same with construction. 

There's lots of incredibly smart young people in this industry. You should be able to find someone who needs help and has an open mind to learn! 

Have fun!


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