# spraying stain on unfinished alder window frames



## girlspaint2 (Jan 30, 2013)

Ok, so we need to stain and topcoat over 150 unfinished wood window frames in this 17,000 sq. ft. house. The windows are already installed. The profile on the window frames would make it almost impossible to wipe so I think it'll be a spray (hvlp) and leave deal. Only trouble is, we've never sprayed stain before so are wary of uneven-ness and blotchy-ness due to improper spray technique and or the tendency of alder to accept stain unevenly. Does anyone have any suggestions on application technique and prep. Any stain product/brand suggestions? Topcoat suggestion? We were thinking of oil poly for it's durability and relatively low fume level.(compared to lacquer) Sorry about the long winded question.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

girlspaint2 said:


> Ok, so we need to stain and topcoat over 150 unfinished wood window frames in this 1700 sq. ft. house. The windows are already installed. The profile on the window frames would make it almost impossible to wipe so I think it'll be a spray (hvlp) and leave deal. Only trouble is, we've never sprayed stain before so are wary of uneven-ness and blotchy-ness due to improper spray technique and or the tendency of alder to accept stain unevenly. Does anyone have any suggestions on application technique and prep. Any stain product/brand suggestions? Topcoat suggestion? We were thinking of oil poly for it's durability and relatively low fume level.(compared to lacquer) Sorry about the long winded question.


That alot of windows!


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## EMINNYS (Nov 29, 2010)

It must be a glass house...lol


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

On of our main revenue streams is replacing windows, and as part of that we offer prefinishing or post installation finishing. 

I much prefer pre-finishing, but have been able to finish after installation as well. 

For hand wiping stain, we will go with General Finishes gel stain. The gel stain is easier to control than normal stain, both in terms of mess, and toning the wood, to prevent blotchiness. 

If you are going to spray the stain, then mask everything in sight, and still be prepared to deal with runs quickly. We have never sprayed the stain in an existing home, but we typically work in inhabited homes, I might be tempted to try it a home under construction though. 

We have sprayed the clear coat, both lacquers and water based poly. 
I prefer to use General Finishes poly. Sometimes I use a painting sub, and he prefers to use Kem-aqua water based lacquer from Sherwin 
Williams, when he is spraying in an existing home.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I am so so scared for you. I've done my share of painting and I tried spraying stain once and did not like it at all. Threw away all six doors and redid them. Do not spray a single window until you buy one and test it out. If you cant do this or wont do not spray them.

PS best finishing schedule given the current information - sand, mask, wipe on shellac on all wood surfaces, sand, tack, stain (general finishes gel is pretty good I also like old masters wiping stain), airless lst, lst, l (laquer sand tack).


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## girlspaint2 (Jan 30, 2013)

EMINNYS said:


> It must be a glass house...lol


I forgot a 0, its actually 17,000 sq. ft. instead of 1700. I'll edit that!


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## Mr. D (Jun 7, 2006)

start with a conditioner. that should help with the blotchiness.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

What type of spray equipment do you have, or what are you willing to invest in. This will answer whether or not you'll be spraying the stain.

Tom


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

girlspaint2 said:


> I forgot a 0, its actually 17,000 sq. ft. instead of 1700. I'll edit that!


Ok that makes sense now. :thumbsup: 
I couldn't figure out how you could have 150 windows in a 1700 sq. ft. house.


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## girlspaint2 (Jan 30, 2013)

tjbnwi said:


> What type of spray equipment do you have, or what are you willing to invest in. This will answer whether or not you'll be spraying the stain.
> 
> Tom


We have a Graco HVLP 4900 ProComp. (has a four stage turbine with an integrated compressor.) The integrated compressor allow the gun to be separated from the material cup with a short length of hose. Very convenient for tight areas.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

girlspaint2 said:


> We have a Graco HVLP 4900 ProComp. (has a four stage turbine with an integrated compressor.) The integrated compressor allow the gun to be separated from the material cup with a short length of hose. Very convenient for tight areas.


I had to look to see what tips were included, they list a number not a size. 

If I had to attempt this (for the stain part), I would install the smallest tip, run the gun at 3-4 psi and the pressure pot about 5 psi.

Get a piece of matching wood and experiment with how it goes. Make adjustments from there. 

I would use water based sanding sealer, instead of a shellac seal coat. You need to experiment with this also. Thinning may be required to get the stain to act properly.

I have sprayed stain often, most is SW spray wipe stain. 

You can mask the glass with Cling Cover;

http://www.trimaco.com/clingcover.php

The only way you will get this to work is be willing to waste some material and practice. Until you're comfortable with your technique do not do the windows.

Tom


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I dont think the op should do this job. Seems way out of her league. Lets do the math .
how do I use an hvlp + giant mansion with stain grade windows = lawsuit


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

Honest answer, I wouldn't even do this job...your question scares the hell out of me and I've been around the game for a long time. MANY problems exist, the two biggest being the sheer number of windows that you're dealing with and the fact spraying stain is a mess in any situation, especially on new windows. I would run for lower hanging fruit, this fruit's just a little to high for you and most IMO. 

Now, IF I chose to do it, it would be contingent upon several things. First of all, the money would have to be what I WANTED, no in between, this sounds like a classical lose your shirt and pants type of deal. Second, I would want to know exactly what my system was going to be going into the job, not second guessing everything I was doing. I guess if you had a crew of three-five decent painters, you probably could do them by hand instead of spraying and still make out ok because even when spraying, the masking time will eat you up. 

I'd run from it if I could but if it's all you've got going, I totally understand.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Call a cabinet refinishing co. to do the work, they are experienced in on site refinishing. I do some cabinet work for one co. and have seen what they can do, which is unbelievable. 

They have done some onsite finishing for me when the finish has to be just right. They mask it, seal it, tone it, lacquer it a few times and done. They only use toners, sometimes Mohawk spray can toners. Grain is not a problem since it is sealed first. They even have bleached dark areas of the wood to even it out, then toned it, always perfect. 

Told me never to use water based stains if time is a factor, adds extra step when grain raises.

Masking would take forever I think.


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## girlspaint2 (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm not scared of the masking. We just finished lacquering 50 in-place stain grade windows on another large new home with our graco hvlp sprayer. 3 coats too, and it wasn't a big deal. (Just drove all the other trades out while we did it due to fumes)! 

After some experimentation today wiping versus spraying stain on scrap alder, I think spraying is definitely the way to go....so much more even and consistent. The stain seemed to flash adequately when thinned by half so I got several light coats on to build and deepen color very quickly.

What pre-coat to use is one of our big questions now. Shellac, off the shelf conditioner, mineral spirits, tupentine, denatured alcohol rubdown, or even, as one of our trim carpenters suggested, thinned down wood glue! Some of the stain colors (there are several) are supposed to be very rich and dark and I am afraid of sealing the wood too much so that it won't accept enough stain to deepen the color enough. Just need a good medium to open the grain and verry lightly seal to help prevent blotching.

We will be experimenting with our alder scraps to excess so we know exactly what it will look like before touching a window frame!


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Well I'll be...:no:


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Go to the Homestead Finishing Products site, check their forum or even call Jeff Jewitt. You should definitely get the right answer there, and he/they can answer all your questions.
http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/jewitt.htm


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

I'd love to see pics of your finished work, you're ahead of me on the stain part of our jobs if you can do what you're describing and make out good. Staining/Poly work has really skipped a generation of painters because 90%++ of all new homes in my area are painted trim...stain went out in the early 90's or so. 

Alder does stain good, my bedroom set is alder wood and I stained/polyurethaned the Cali King sleigh bed, two nighstands and dresser. My spray job on the furniture is ok, got some runs I don't care for but did it with an old airless in uncontrolled conditions. Still a gorgeous bedroom set.


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## Mountaindew (Jan 13, 2013)

You got this! Doing all the right research, asking all the right questions, it's not like it's your first pony ride. Just like the old saying"it's all in the prep". Don't run, don't hide, just making money!


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## not2late (Mar 31, 2005)

If I can put in my two cents here. 

Having built and finished more Alder cabinets than I can count here's what works for me. I've tried preconditioning with cut shellac and also used a few other premade conditioning products. Stain then was wiped or sprayed. Results were only satisfactory. Not great. Always some blotching, areas that wouldn't take stain etc.. these were not big box store stains either. 

Out of desperation on a particularly troublesome job I tried a quart of General Finishes water base dye stain. Poured it in the spray gun and gave it a try. Using a CapSpray 95. No preconditioning, just a 220 sanded Alder panel. The results were amazing. No blotches. An even finish that had been, for me, impossible to obtain. The stuff dries almost immediately. You can control the depth of color by the amount of coats. No more waiting for stain to dry overnight before the waterbased top coats. 

Anyway, this works for me and has taken out all the anxiety when finishing Alder and Maple.


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