# efforensce



## herm (Sep 1, 2004)

what cleans it and how can i stop it, thanks any help would be great


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I am sick, what cures it?

Info, please. Color, hardness, location, and pictures.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Wasn't there just a thread about this?

efforensce = efflorescence


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

You mean this week?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> You mean this week?


http://www.contractortalk.com/f22/mispronounciations-etc-74391/


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I was thinking about adding it to the list as a variation of effervence.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I can't spell it without spell check. I can't spell anything without spell check, even when I know how to spell it.

At any rate, you have to have some info to even make a W.A.G.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tscarborough said:


> I can't spell it without spell check. I can't spell anything without spell check, even when I know how to spell it.
> 
> At any rate, you have to have some info to even make a W.A.G.


:clap::clap:


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

In the post linked above by Angus, Mud mentioned clean cmu.
My wife seems to think I have been viewing porn. A few nights ago, I was watching Pawn Stars in the lr. She was getting ready for bed and had that tv on. I was ready to go to bed if she was watching Pawn Stars. She is very hard of hearing when she removes here hearing aids at night. I have to speak a little louder if she cannot see my lips. Glad no one else was here. On my way to the bdrm, I asked her if she was watching the same program. She said what? I spoke louder just as I entered the room and asked her if she was watching *PORN STARS* too!* *

Sensory overload? :sad:


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## jshuatree (Feb 21, 2010)

been reading a book I got from the library title simply construction of 1899 or 79 [something like that] masonry ,carpentry, joinery ...it states that u wash with 1 part acid ..[keep in mind that we use detergent today so get that] to ten parts water. let that dry then apply hot linseed oil. let that dry then apply a drylock sealant have not tried this but I'm going to. guess I'll use a paint brush for application...oh yea sais u might have to repeat every 5 years or so like I say I just read this in a book I have no real world experiance with this yet ..I'll also get the book again and give name and author ... It was an architechtual college course book from that era.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

boman47k said:


> In the post linked above by Angus, Mud mentioned clean cmu.
> My wife seems to think I have been viewing porn. A few nights ago, I was watching Pawn Stars in the lr. She was getting ready for bed and had that tv on. I was ready to go to bed if she was watching Pawn Stars. She is very hard of hearing when she removes here hearing aids at night. I have to speak a little louder if she cannot see my lips. Glad no one else was here. On my way to the bdrm, I asked her if she was watching the same program. She said what? I spoke louder just as I entered the room and asked her if she was watching *PORN STARS* too!* *
> 
> Sensory overload? :sad:


As long as you didn't get cement all over the place.


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## Benny54 (Mar 9, 2010)

Mason'sSafe Solution works well


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## WARD (Nov 21, 2006)

jshuatree said:


> .it states that u wash with 1 part acid ..[keep in mind that we use detergent today so get that] to ten parts water. let that dry then apply hot linseed oil. let that dry then apply a drylock sealant


I would not recomend a sealant. The people I have talked to, that are in the know, say that sealing the surface will seal it inside causing you to never be able to get it all out. You would end up with a haze underneath the sealer. Also I have been warned by 75% of these people acid make the problem worse.
On a side note I have never been able to clean it off and it completely stay gone forever.


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

Angus explain me that you have a salt crystals to come to surface. Take a cotton pad, soak wet with distillate water and gently press on affected area. Change twice per day. Every time use new wet pad. Possible that after two weeks distillate water extract salt from stone/stucco/brick.


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## thin brick boss (Mar 10, 2010)

*eflorecense*

could be lime, or salts. water brings it out, evenually it stops if salt but lime needs prosoco masonry cleaner. If brick get wet again then it comes back. Sealer may cause spalling if lime or salts can't get out of the brick. Was brick a paver was it clear when you installed it is it a wall or paver. 

Need info to advise correctly.


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## jshuatree (Feb 21, 2010)

WARD said:


> I would not recomend a sealant. The people I have talked to, that are in the know, say that sealing the surface will seal it inside causing you to never be able to get it all out. You would end up with a haze underneath the sealer. Also I have been warned by 75% of these people acid make the problem worse.
> On a side note I have never been able to clean it off and it completely stay gone forever.


 thanx for that will not use the sealant going to try linseed next monday will tell u how it goes


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## GoToBrick (Nov 7, 2009)

wash it first then oil it...but that has to be redone from time to time....I remove it by supersaturating it and leave the water running on it a few days where you can...block is easy just put the hose in and continue filling for a few days....washes all the lime,calcium and other causes out


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

That is NOT an accepted practice for efflorescence. You will create way more than you will get rid of by adding more water to the wall than that required to remove the specific type of efflorescence you have.


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## GoToBrick (Nov 7, 2009)

that IS an accepted practice here but it could be due to the humidity here...I dont think I would try it in a dry climate area


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It is not an accepted practice anywhere in the world under any conditions for any type of concrete or clay masonry units. If I were called to look at a job to solve the efflorescence problem (like I am every week), and I found out that the masonry contractor was doing what you are doing, I would suggest to the owner and GC that you be run off the job after you tore down everything you had put up.

That is absolutely the worst possible thing to do to combat efflorescence and is piss-poor masonry practice in general.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm sorry I didn't mean to sound so harsh. The whole idea is to control the moisture in the wall. You should cover stockpiles, cover open walls, and yes, thoroughly wet any area to be cleaned to prevent the cleaner from being absorbed into the units. Other than cleaning, no water into open walls.


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## GoToBrick (Nov 7, 2009)

Been doing it for thirty years now with a very high rate of success, never had a complaint from corp. of engineers, home owners,gc's or inspectors. Sorry it didn't work for you when you tried it, but that doesn't entitle you to make piss poor comments on someone else’s advise...well unless it just so happens that you are God himself..in that case I would apologize


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I would never try that, I am telling you what the standards of the NCMA, the BIA, and every manufacturer of Brick and CMU tell you: Don't do that!


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## bytor (Jan 23, 2010)

http://www.masonryinstitute.org/pdf/612.pdf

Good info on efflorescence here


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## CONCRETE MIKE (Jan 11, 2010)

herm said:


> what cleans it and how can i stop it, thanks any help would be great[/qu If it is showing up on a basment wall you need to stop the water from getting inside your block. Need to know if it is on concrete, below grade brick or block or above grade. If you just treat the problem without solving it you will be wasting your time.


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## GoToBrick (Nov 7, 2009)

Tscarborough said:


> I would never try that, I am telling you what the standards of the NCMA, the BIA, and every manufacturer of Brick and CMU tell you: Don't do that!


 
I went back and read a lot of your posts in the forum and I have come to the conclusion that you are indeed an intelligent and well read person. But then I come back to see your last statement as quoted above, and all I can say is WOW!!! Why would you post something so arrogant and ignorant in a public forum? Let’s take a look at this from another view:

 The statement in part: “I would never try that" <----in other words you don’t have the slightest clue as to the validity of my advise, yet condemned it as if you did
 The statement in part: I am telling you what the standards of the NCMA" <----and the following is their statement

"NCMA is an association of producers of concrete masonry products, and suppliers of products and services related to the industry."
 From: http://www.ncma.org/Pages/AboutNCMA.aspx
Right or wrong do you honestly feel it is in their best interest to say "a through flushing with water might work"? No is the only answer here. They can’t sell you the water. They can only sell you overpriced chemicals that may or may not work. Unless you actually think they are out for interests other than their own. Nope, I can’t picture anyone being that gullable.Besides that they say so on the very same page:
*Mission** Statement*​_The mission of the National Concrete Masonry Association is to advance, protect and promote the common interests of its *members.*_​ 
:whistlingJust curious, you a member? Do you by any chance sell or in some way profit from these products?

Continuing on
 the statement in part:” the BIA"<----and the following is their statement
"The Brick Industry Association (BIA) is the national trade association representing distributors and manufacturers of clay brick and suppliers of related products and services"
 From: http://www.gobrick.com/html/serv.html
And again I will let them answer: *BIA's Mission

* BIA's mission is to increase the market share of clay brick and safeguard the industry

 and of coarse this part of the statement:” and every manufacturer of Brick and CMU”
Well I wonder where their monetary interests and loyalties lie....................

And finaly:"tell you: Don't do that!"
The king of England said that to Columbus, England shouted it at the founding fathers, and then there is Rosa Parks, Dr. King, JFK, FDR and many others who were told that because it didn’t serve other interests.
Now don’t get me wrong there is probably some valuable info out there, but very little of it is unquestionable fact, in fact, I believe history has taught us it is better to question than to lie down under the thumb of oppressing "opinions"
Besides............It ain't Rocket Science unless you are building rockets.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

As a manufacturers representative, it is my job to solve issues in a way that references the applicable standards. Every organization and manufacturer dealing with masonry, as well as the technical standards of independent testing organizations say that you are wrong.

To paraphrase: You know better than the thousand years of accumulated wisdom of masonry practices, as well as every single bit of research done by industry groups, testing labs, and manufacturers.

OK, Sir, all I can tell you is that doing something wrong for 30 years certainly doesn't make you right.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Let's get the reason efflorescence occurs on masonry clear. Efflorescence is the salt/impurities left behind on the face of a wall by water escaping the wall. As Tscar stated there are many ways to try to prevent efflorescence like covering stock piles and covering walls and wall cavities during construction to keep water out. 

Filling a CMU with water to "flush out" the efflorescence is like throwing wood on a fire to put it out. I doubt the water coming out of your hose is 100% purified so you are just adding to the problem. Even if it was it would not be a good idea.


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## jshuatree (Feb 21, 2010)

yea I agree its common knowledge that u don't put more water on it for several days ..hate to be the ho paying for that OUCH....but u might be right gtb it could very well be a conspiracy desighned by the man to keep us down and broke :2guns:ANTARCHY AAAAAAAAAAA ..by the way do u pick up your mortar joints at the brickyard or do u have them delivered on the truck????


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

It sounds like it would work under the right conditions. There are too many variables to make a blanket comment. Much easier and safer for the manufacturers to say no. Something I might try on my own wall that I would never do professionally.


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## jshuatree (Feb 21, 2010)

if that worked the rain would have gotten rid of it on alot of places I know about and n.c. has the same kinda environment as us hot and humid thats as ridiclus as what i said about the joints I'd say oh boys a decent bricklayer but but its just a constant in the industry it does not move...the world is round fellas


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## Burns-Built (May 8, 2009)

I have never heard of filling a wall with water and flush the salts out of it. But hey to each his own. All i am saying is i would never do it or know no one who does.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

It would have to be fresh water with no salts. Isn't the top usually closed off anyway?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

You will never wash out all the salts, no matter how pure the water and how long it runs. The water itself is what causes salts to dissolve, and as the water leaves the unit it carries them to the surface where they are deposited when the water evaporates.


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## solarguy (Feb 14, 2010)

I can't argue what I don't know. Apparently it has worked for at least 1 person using 1 product. I'll take the man at his word. Doesn't mean it would work for all people or other products.


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## ContrBob (Dec 11, 2009)

*Efflorescence*

Efflorescence can be caused by water leakage or moisture from atmospheric humidity.

The white powdery substace you see are mineral deposits from lime or calcium leaching out of the masonry and crystalizing as it dries.

Diluted muriatic acid helps loosen it so it can be removed. Wire brushing also works. 

If you rule out water leakage, then consider buying a basement dehumidifier to reduce the humidity level. Here's a site with efflorescence info and basement dehumidifier info.

If its not leakage, you can seal the walls on the inside to protect them from absorbing the condensation caused by high humidity. Remove the efflorescence first though.


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## JD3lta (Nov 22, 2009)

TSCARborough, is contrBOB right? That's how I roll, what he said.


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## CONCRETE MIKE (Jan 11, 2010)

Tscarborough said:


> You will never wash out all the salts, no matter how pure the water and how long it runs. The water itself is what causes salts to dissolve, and as the water leaves the unit it carries them to the surface where they are deposited when the water evaporates.


 :thumbup::clap::notworthy


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## CONCRETE MIKE (Jan 11, 2010)

Also if you don't stop the cause (the water seeping in) you can cause a problem with the drylock or other material you may place on the wall. The material will fail!!


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

There are 3 main types of efflorescence:

Powdery white (lime types).
Scaly hard white (calcium types).
Brown/green (maganese/vanadium salts).

Each are caused by different minerals/salts and each require a different method to remove. As noted above the first step is to ALWAYS solve the moisture problem that is the root cause for any of the three.


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