# Softener using too much salt



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I've got a new softener installed in my new house. All new plumbing system.

Water tested at 80 ppm. Set it up according to what the softener manual specified.

Its just me and my wife and we have a high efficiency washer. I'm using 8-40 lb bags a month. This seems like way way to much. My in laws have 12 people in their house and they don't go through that much salt.

Sound way off to you?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Spencer said:


> I've got a new softener installed in my new house. All new plumbing system.
> 
> Water tested at 80 ppm. Set it up according to what the softener manual specified.
> 
> ...


What type of unit? Is it sized right? Are the settings right? 80 ppm doesn't explain what's required. Is it set to regenerate based on usage or days? Fleck head? Clack?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

FYI: 80 ppm is not considered that hard. That's only in the neighborhood of about 4-5 grains per gallon. It's probably set really high, salt usage should be extremely limited.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Model is Pentair Autotrol 400 series

I was wrong. My water is 45 grains. 3 PPM Iron

96,000 grain softener

Control has the XS salt cam that doubles salt usage because of the large size.

Currently set at:

Hardness - 60
Capacity - 80
Salt setting - 15

Sorry for the delayed response, I'd still appreciate any insight.


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## toluene_hawk (Jan 7, 2013)

Will this help?

System using 
more or less salt 
than regenerant 
setting.

a. Foreign matter in 
controller causing 
incorrect flow rates.

a. Remove brine control and 
flush out foreign matter. 
Manually position control to 
brine/slow rinse to clean 
controller (after so doing 
position control to "purge” to 
remove brine from tank).


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks hawk. I want to make sure I have it set correctly first, see how much I'm using then re-evaluate. At this point I'm not even sure I have it set correctly. When I get some time I'm going to try and call the company who made it and see what they say.

Two people using 320 lbs of salt/month can't be normal.

Any idea if me settings look correct???


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Your softener is incorrectly sized and 3ppm of iron will ruin it.

Mike


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Oconomowoc said:


> Your softener is incorrectly sized and 3ppm of iron will ruin it.
> 
> Mike


Mike, help me out with a little more info.

I know its oversized. Guy who put it in thought that he should go big because "we would have a lot of kids." Not sure what he was thinking but its to late now.

How will 3 ppm ruin it. What would you recommend to combat the iron?

Any idea if my settings look right? I hope to call the company that sells the controller tomorrow and see what they say.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Spencer said:


> Mike, help me out with a little more info.
> 
> I know its oversized. Guy who put it in thought that he should go big because "we would have a lot of kids." Not sure what he was thinking but its to late now.
> 
> ...


Never ever ever EVER oversize a softener like that. You really are doomed with this.

Max iron in that softener is 1 pom of diluted iron. You need an Iron Curtain. Period. 

If you want treated water and do it efficiently you need a "system" designed for it. I wish I could help you and as most know I would happily help you but the system is just bad.

And, about the response on the "head". That's simply not true, it's not a head that fails but rather the injector. If it's not the injector check the brine float. Although I doubt that's the issue.

Call a water treatment company and have them test the water. My test kit is over $200 and most people use a cheap one. Get it professionally tested and have him try and dial in the system you have.

You are on borrowed time.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Is it set to recharge on gallons used or days? Big difference. With only two people I'd be inclined to set it up on a days cycle.

What is you grains of hardness set at?


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Oconomowoc said:


> Is it set to recharge on gallons used or days? Big difference. With only two people I'd be inclined to set it up on a days cycle.
> 
> What is you grains of hardness set at?


It is set up to recharge on gallons used. I am wondering if it would be better to set it up on day also. We are having a problem with sediment (new well). I installed a rosco filter before the softener. I was having trouble with the sediment actually stopping the turbine that measures the usage. Could still be very fine sediment jacking with things, haven't had any problems since I installed the filter.

Current settings are:

Hardness - 60
Capacity - 80
Salt setting - 15 (because of the size it uses the XS "extra salt" cam which doubles it to 30.)

An iron curtain will run me what, about $500?

Thanks for all your help.


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## Madmak (Aug 17, 2013)

My Kinetico Mach 4040 uses 20kg of salt every 1.5 to 2 months for a family of 4. Great unit!


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Spencer

Let's take this in steps ok. 

Your first priority is to remove the float assembly in the brine tank. Clean it.

Your second priority is to locate the injector and spool and remove them. Clean them. In fact, put it on bypass and remove everything for cleaning. The ports on a softener are tiny, about .030" on that injector.

If you have sediment and it ran through the softener we can't make progress here until we know everything is clear. Often times when customers have issues like this the injectors are the first thing I check. So don't worry about using salt just now, let's protect the unit and make sure it functions as intended from the factory.

Do that and get back to me......


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

I've been sitting here doing some math a few different ways. It's tough because that system you have is not correct.

Anyhow, do an experiment and give it a salt setting of 6 and change the regeneration cycle to 7 days. This will be our benchmark and what we will start with.

Go to Ace Hardware and buy a hardness kit, it's crappy but it will be close enough.

Next. Manually run it through a regeneration cycle. On days 4, 5, 6 and 7 check the hardness and record the data. If you manually regenerate it it will happen tonight at 2am. I.realize going from 15 pounds to 6 seems like a major jump it is NOT! 

Report back to me.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Oconomowoc said:


> I've been sitting here doing some math a few different ways. It's tough because that system you have is not correct.
> 
> Anyhow, do an experiment and give it a salt setting of 6 and change the regeneration cycle to 7 days. This will be our benchmark and what we will start with.
> 
> ...


I'm on it.

I'll see what I can do. Stay tuned.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Spencer said:


> I'm on it.
> 
> I'll see what I can do. Stay tuned.


Spencer, what we need to do here is learn the habits of both you and your wife as it concerns water usage. What we are dealing with here is an oversized unit for two people and to.compound the matter we are trying to deal with an excess of diluted iron. It's an interesting problem really and quite fun to figure out. Our issue here doesn't apply to a chart......so don't bother looking at one ok.

What we need to do Spencer is tweak this system over time trying to optimize with what we have. Basically, we need to find that sweet spot where we don't burn through too much salt and don't reduce the life of the softener in the process. This is the balance that ALL softeners deal with. 

Oddly enough, a majority of people who have a SW system either burn too much salt or not enough and in both situations they waste money. They either waste money in salt or waste money in premature failure of the softener. Why? Because 99% of the installs are not set to ideal conditions. Why? Because at the time of install the installer sets it (total guess) and never returns. The home owner is afraid to touch it or thinks they run on magic.......and again, we find systems that are never really optimized.


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## MAULEMALL (May 16, 2010)

I got nothing to add ..Just wanted to say You Rock Ocono...


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## ameliasaws (Apr 30, 2020)

Oconomowoc said:


> What type of unit? Is it sized right? Are the settings right? 80 ppm doesn't explain what's required. Is it set to regenerate based on usage or days? Fleck head? Clack?





Spencer said:


> I've got a new softener installed in my new house. All new plumbing system.
> 
> Water tested at 80 ppm. Set it up according to what the softener manual specified.
> 
> ...


Yes, 8 bags a month is too much, should be 2 bags max


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## natestar (Dec 11, 2020)

ameliasaws said:


> Yes, 8 bags a month is too much, should be 2 bags max


Your post was just in time. Poor Spencer has been through 800+ bags of salt since asking his question 8 years ago in 2013.


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## cyrus799 (3 mo ago)

A average household of four typically uses 40–50 kg bags of salt per month when you consider the number of bags that can be consumed. Depending on the water's hardness and the household's consumption patterns, this amount may change.


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