# anyone have tricks to stop tape from lifting up



## MarcD (Sep 18, 2009)

Hi i am curious I seem to have about this happen to me from time to time and it seems to be more on patches than on newly hung rock.

I will get a spot or to that lifts up. sometimes it doesnt lift up until paint. i usually cut into the side mud behind and re attatch and it seems to be fine. 

I knew a guy who used to dampen his tape before he put it up. but I really dont care for doing that and had it lift up on me after doing this.


Just wondering if there were any tricks or something i could pay more attention to, to make this a problem of the past.


Thanks everyone.


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm curious too. DONT worry rockers, anything more than a small patch, I sub out. 

But I have forever had the same problem and have listened, read, etc. with only slight improvement. (mud behind the tape, dont press it all out, don't overwork it, let it dry, etc.)

Any new tricks?


----------



## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

For patch work i carry around a role of self stick mesh tape, it never lifts, GMOD


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

genecarp said:


> For patch work i carry around a role of self stick mesh tape, it never lifts, GMOD


Gene, I've been using that too with pretty good results. However, it always requires just a little prouder application of mud. (I use 5 or 20 for the little bit I do). I would love to hear the "real secret" about applying tape without bubbling.

I'll bet the rockers are laughing at me.:surrender:


----------



## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I mainly do bathrooms so I do all my drywall work myself. After doing it for 20 years I still get the occassional spot. 
I use Sheetrock 90 to tape and I think in my case its when the mud has set up too much and I'm trying to use it. I have tried dampening the paper - I think it helps, but it is a PITA.
I have also tried a perforated paper tape and found that it would tear in the corners and lift!

As I said, I only get a few here and there. I normally catch it on the next coat of mud, cut it out, and fill it.

If there is a secret for eliminating it altogether,....love to hear it!!


----------



## AARC Drywall (May 11, 2008)

As I...mesh tape and pro set mud...for patchs that is the only way to fly.


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> I'll bet the rockers are laughing at me.:surrender:












:clap:


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't use paper tape on patches with quickset mud like 5 or 20, it sets too fast for the paper to absorb and bond. I will rarely use paper with 45 and 90 but it has to be on the wet side when you install it.

I sounds like your taping painted surfaces when patching. If so, the I recomend the use of mesh,not paper. 

You will learn from your mistakes, sometimes the mesh will lift at the overlapping corners and you will learn how to apply it ''thinking'' about witch way you will be applying the mud. This will help.:thumbsup:


----------



## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Anytime you have to tape use Durabond 20 or 45 make sure it's the Brown bag not the white bag carp, anytime I have to tape I use Durabond if it's a whole room I use 90 if it's a patch I will use 45 or 20 I have not had a problem with paper tape lifting in 24 years. one of the guys I use to work for back in 1984 he calls me:notworthy The King of Durabond cause he has seen first hand what I do with Durabond. I always use Brown Bag Durabond20,45,90 I would put it up against any Product out there, even Plaster cause Durabond is Harder then Plaster.

ROCK ON TEDDLEY NUGENT


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Yes, that's what has worked for us too. Fiberglass tape + Durabond (brown bag) on first coat!


----------



## rogerhattman (Jul 6, 2008)

Durabond with paper is great for repairs. I usually add extra PVA to the mix or apply to the paper (w/water). It sticks great with no bubbles.


----------



## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Here's some Duabond pictures I ran the crown using Durabond 90 the cornice moulding is cast moulding plaster.


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Gene, I've been using that too with pretty good results. However, it always requires just a little prouder application of mud. (I use 5 or 20 for the little bit I do). I would love to hear the "real secret" about applying tape without bubbling.
> 
> I'll bet the rockers are laughing at me.:surrender:


Bubbling is the wrong term, they are BLISTERS,,,, (glad i got that straightened out)

Blisters are caused by no mud behind the tape, and they often (most the time) don't show up till you apply the next coat. If you are haveing trouble with blisters in the corners, you are most likely applying mud to one side, then when you are applying it to the other side, the SIDE of your knive is removeing some from the first side, leaving you with a blister, just check it out and make sure that is not the problem.
Another thing that causes them is wipeing ALL the mud out from under the tape (wipeing TOO hard)

You asked for the REAL SECRECT,,, okay here it is,,,,, make sure you have mud behind the tape,,, it really is that simple,,, not always easy, but real simple!!!

mesh???? we won't go there,,, I wouldn't use mesh on my mother-in-laws house,,, okay??


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Captain Sheetrock

Thanks!

Whenever I have had the opportunity to do corners, they always turn out fine. Thanks for the correction about blisters-seriously I hate to sound like a HO. It's kind of like when homeowners call a three way switch a two way switch in my main trade.:laughing:

The blisters I usually have come up are only where the gap between the sheets is larger. I usually level out the seams with 5, then do something else for awhile.

I later come back and embed the tape in a pretty generous layer of pre-mix or 20. I dont push too hard on the knife because I know you can actually squeeze all the useful mud out. But I still sometimes get blisters.

Your work is an art, and I stay away from it whenever possible, but sometimes I have to do a quick fix. I appreciate your insight.:notworthy


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Captain Sheetrock
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


 
Try this,,, when I have a job where there are large "gaps", I mix some 20 min and pre-fill em, then I go about getting all my stuff unloaded and set=up, letting the 20 set,,, then tape. When your doing this sort of thing, you HAVE to let the pre-fill mud SET,, or your just pissing in the wind (Bob Dylan song). Here's another thing,, if you don't do it all the time, be sure and use a "soft, flexible" 5 or 6 (actully I'd recommend an 8") to wipe the tape,,,, I use a stiff knife, but I do know what I'm doing,,,, a soft one will give you a break, if you are unsure about how HARD to wipe.

That brings up another point,,, (cause I have had a few glasses of homebrew,,, I call it Obama-beer, but thats another thread!!) If you are not doing this all the time,,, PLEASE use "soft, flexible, blue steel knives" Stainless knives are great, in that they don't rust, but they are VERY UNFORGIVING and you need to use them ONLY after you know what your doing!!!

nuff said


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> Try this,,, when I have a job where there are large "gaps", I mix some 20 min and pre-fill em, then I go about getting all my stuff unloaded and set=up, letting the 20 set,,, then tape. When your doing this sort of thing, you HAVE to let the pre-fill mud SET,, or your just pissing in the wind (Bob Dylan song). Here's another thing,, if you don't do it all the time, be sure and use a "soft, flexible" 5 or 6 (actully I'd recommend an 8") to wipe the tape,,,, I use a stiff knife, but I do know what I'm doing,,,, a soft one will give you a break, if you are unsure about how HARD to wipe.
> 
> That brings up another point,,, (cause I have had a few glasses of homebrew,,, I call it Obama-beer, but thats another thread!!) If you are not doing this all the time,,, PLEASE use "soft, flexible, blue steel knives" Stainless knives are great, in that they don't rust, but they are VERY UNFORGIVING and you need to use them ONLY after you know what your doing!!!
> 
> nuff said


Thanks for the tips. One question I am unclear about-probably a trade specific term, and I will show my stupidity here and now.

When you refer to a soft knife, is that a plastic cheapo?

What kind of home brew-I'm THIRSTY!:drink:


----------



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

If I only have some patching to do, here it is - make a donut of regular mud ( I only use "machine mud" ) on your hawk. Then put some water inside the donut. Add to the water quick set plaster. Mix the plaster, then mix it into the regular mud.

When you apply this, it will finish like plaster does - no sanding required. It will 'go off' in about 15 minutes, depending on the mix proportions. I mix about 50/50.

When it starts to 'go off ' trowel it smooth. Think of it the same as finishing concrete, you need to be on it at the right time. With a little practice you will be doing those repairs in one coat, done.

ps. I had to practically strangle my plasterer 30yrs ago to get him to show me this trick. So don't be telling the hacks about this, please.

Enjoy :clap:


----------



## d's (Mar 16, 2008)

I'll put in my 2cents here...

Setting compound can act like concrete in that if it dries/sets without enough moisture it will be weak and crumbly. When you tape with it and leave only a thin to no layer underneath - the tape will wick the moisture out of it and the mud will set without enough -> go all powdery -> no bond -> blisters. To keep this from happening; never wipe too hard, and *top coat the tape immediately*. By embedding the tape like this there will be less chance of it drying out and being weak. Has worked for me!

D'S


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Thanks for the tips. One question I am unclear about-probably a trade specific term, and I will show my stupidity here and now.
> 
> When you refer to a soft knife, is that a plastic cheapo?
> 
> What kind of home brew-I'm THIRSTY!:drink:


What I mean about a soft knife, is one that is "flexible",,, blue steel knives are "flimsier than stainless ones". If you buy a stainless, (specially from Blowes Or Homeless Depot) They have a shorter blade making it EVEN stiffer than a PRO stainless. 

Just put the knive against the wall, and push it(with your index), does it bow in the middle, if not its stiff,,, 

And the homebrew???? I call it Obama-beer, cause ,,,, well ya know,,, the economy,,, its $6 for 6 gallons,, its 9 1/2% alc,,, taste like a Bartles and James wine cooler.


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

d's said:


> I'll put in my 2cents here...
> 
> Setting compound can act like concrete in that if it dries/sets without enough moisture it will be weak and crumbly. When you tape with it and leave only a thin to no layer underneath - the tape will wick the moisture out of it and the mud will set without enough -> go all powdery -> no bond -> blisters. To keep this from happening; never wipe too hard, and *top coat the tape immediately*. By embedding the tape like this there will be less chance of it drying out and being weak. Has worked for me!
> 
> D'S


 
Good point, when I tape with "hot mud" I always, run over it again, as I am tapeing it,,,


----------



## stp57 (Dec 12, 2007)

If I have a stubborn tape I'll staple it down with 3/8" stainless staples. Problem fixed & they will never rust. For 10"x10" patches or less, I use metal plate/ mesh patches. I buy the large contractor packs at Lowes.
Steve



rselectric1 said:


> Gene, I've been using that too with pretty good results. However, it always requires just a little prouder application of mud. (I use 5 or 20 for the little bit I do). I would love to hear the "real secret" about applying tape without bubbling.
> 
> I'll bet the rockers are laughing at me.:surrender:


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks guys. I won't tell the hacks personally but anyone can view this site so they might find out.

I am now waiting with baited breath for the next time I need to do a patch.:thumbup:


----------



## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

rs, The thing about the hacks they don't care what the job looks like or how long it will last, most have the Attitude of "Hey can't see it from my house!":laughing: That's when you know:whistling so I could put out step by step and the hacks wouldn't listen cause they already know


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Thanks guys. I won't tell the hacks personally but anyone can view this site so they might find out.
> 
> I am now waiting with baited breath for the next time I need to do a patch.:thumbup:


 
Heres a great point to remember about patch work,,, when a HO asks you how long you been doing this,,,, LOOK at em, say "counting today?" then look away and and act like your counting,,,,,, really gets em fired up ,,,,hee hee

About knives, tho,,, You should probbly get some blue steel knives (they are easier when your getting the hang of it,, after you get done, wash them, I like to use a sanding block to wash em with, just throw the block in the bucket of water, and then spray them LIBERALLY with WD-40, then throw them in your tool box so they aren't exsposed to the elements, and they will last for years,,, I have a wall-board 7 that I use to wipe tape with,,, they quit making this knive in 76 and it still works fine,,, just got to learn how to take care of em)


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> Heres a great point to remember about patch work,,, when a HO asks you how long you been doing this,,,, LOOK at em, say "counting today?" then look away and and act like your counting,,,,,, really gets em fired up ,,,,hee hee


:laughing:

I actually did some minor prep work and painting when I was in high school, so I could say 20 years and not be lying. :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## MarcD (Sep 18, 2009)

Thank you everyone for your help on my (blistering) issues.
I think i need to be more gentle when i apply my tape, i usually put the mud on pretty thick and then i will knife it off with a lot of pressure next time i do some i will try not scraping it so hard


----------



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I figured out my tape blistering issues quite some time ago by experimenting; I had been pushing all the mud out from under the tape...that problem's been fixed. Did my best work a couple of weeks ago-ceiling fixed on third application early the second day...that's good for me 

question: what is the brown bag durabond and how does it differ from 'white' bag?


----------



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

72chevy4x4 said:


> question: what is the brown bag durabond and how does it differ from 'white' bag?


Brown dries harder than plaster and is not meant to be sanded. I use it for first coats.


----------



## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Brown dries harder than plaster and is not meant to be sanded. I use it for first coats.


 
Many many years ago I was doing a bathroom and the customer asked if I could sand and finish coat some drywall in the basement that had been started about a year earlier. Whoever had done the tape coat used Durabond 90 and overfilled - a lot - there was probably an 1/8-3/16" of mud slathered on the joints - man what a PITA to try and finish!!


----------



## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

hmmmmm, a good drywall taper can use just about any mud and not have tape fall off. somemuds just lasts longer than others but if its falling off i would say the last thing would be the mud causing it.


----------



## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

*Dry wall tapping tip*

If you can find some of Zissner's Guardz - Damaged Drywall Sealer pick up a gallon.

We tape and board most of our bathroom projects and to make them bullet proof we first tape our joints and let them dry out. Next day we give the paper tape a coat of Guardz. Any loose seams blister on the spot and with a razor the tape can be reset with the Guardz.

The best thing about this technique is on the final sanding if you sand to far the guardz has sealed the tape and it doesn't fray very much.

Zero call backs since we started this in our bathrooms do to steam lifting the paper tape.

I believe other companies call their product wall paper repairer or something like that.


----------



## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

these type problems are no real deal if you have any time under your belt. what the hell was the qu3wstion again???


----------



## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> Heres a great point to remember about patch work,,, when a HO asks you how long you been doing this,,,, LOOK at em, say "counting today?" then look away and and act like your counting,,,,,, really gets em fired up ,,,,hee hee
> 
> About knives, tho,,, You should probbly get some blue steel knives (they are easier when your getting the hang of it,, after you get done, wash them, I like to use a sanding block to wash em with, just throw the block in the bucket of water, and then spray them LIBERALLY with WD-40, then throw them in your tool box so they aren't exsposed to the elements, and they will last for years,,, I have a wall-board 7 that I use to wipe tape with,,, they quit making this knive in 76 and it still works fine,,, just got to learn how to take care of em)



blue steel flexes the best. Too bad the SS ones don't.


----------



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Either mesh tape or quick set pretty much guaranties no blisters. I find Silverset 40 is really sticky, you'd have to screw up pretty bad to get any blisters. Otherwise, if you're using paper tape with regular cold mud, a few things that have messed me up is waiting too long before applying the tape, giving the mud time to dry out. Or having the heat turned up while mudding. Or not putting enough water in the mud, or no water, taking it right out of the box which is dumb. Besides that, I think it's just experience, like everyone else was saying.


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

nEighter said:


> blue steel flexes the best. Too bad the SS ones don't.


 
Thats why I posted it like I did,,, SS is for them what know what thier doing,,, if your not there yet, PLEASE use the blue steel ones,,, just clean em real good,,, rust will screw a knife up real gutt


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Either mesh tape or quick set pretty much guaranties no blisters. I find Silverset 40 is really sticky, you'd have to screw up pretty bad to get any blisters. Otherwise, if you're using paper tape with regular cold mud, a few things that have messed me up is waiting too long before applying the tape, giving the mud time to dry out. Or having the heat turned up while mudding. Or not putting enough water in the mud, or no water, taking it right out of the box which is dumb. Besides that, I think it's just experience, like everyone else was saying.


 
True, but then again mesh tape garuntees CRACKED joints. 

The topic is blisters,,, that supposes tape,, One of two ways to go here,, learn to tape and avoid blisters,, or use mesh and not have a problem with blisters, but be assured that your joints will crack,,,,, Oh well, at least they won't blister


----------



## Muddauber (Nov 2, 2007)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> If you can find some of Zissner's Guardz - Damaged Drywall Sealer pick up a gallon.
> 
> We tape and board most of our bathroom projects and to make them bullet proof we first tape our joints and let them dry out. Next day we give the paper tape a coat of Guardz. Any loose seams blister on the spot and with a razor the tape can be reset with the Guardz.
> 
> ...


*

OMG! *Now I can finally say that " I've heard it all." :notworthy


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

Muddauber said:


> *OMG! *Now I can finally say that " I've heard it all." :notworthy


I felt that way,, but last year after I had hung a job,,, the HO came in the day I was tapeing it and said,, "I see your done hanging ,,, I guess its time to start PASTEING it" ........

I said,, 
thats right mamn,,,, what else could ya say ????


----------



## Muddauber (Nov 2, 2007)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> I felt that way,, but last year after I had hung a job,,, the HO came in the day I was tapeing it and said,, "I see your done hanging ,,, I guess its time to start PASTEING it" ........
> 
> I said,,
> thats right mamn,,,, what else could ya say ????



:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Done a church addition a few years back. One of the church ladies walked in and asked, when are you going to *DOO-**** the ceilings?:w00t:


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Captain Sheetrock ROCKS!

I say so, and when I was out drinking with Angus today, he said the same thing.:thumbsup:


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I still don't get the mesh causes cracks thing? I've been to busy to try that sawhorse test,to try to pull two pieces of rock apart with mesh and one with paper.
As soon as I run out of work I'm going to try it.

Time to get turkey cooking.:clap:


----------



## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

I like to add a little water to my mud, and let the tape sit on the mud and spread the next seam then wipe the the previous tape. I always push the tape into the mud with my 6"knife. This is the way the frenchies taught me.
I have been taping for 28 years and still have a few blisters here and there - Sh*t happens - I just cut the tape at the blister, add mud, and smooth over.


----------



## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Captain Sheetrock ROCKS!
> 
> I say so, and when I was out drinking with Angus today, he said the same thing.:thumbsup:


I thought I recoginized you guys!!!!! I was the guy running back and forth to the bathroom (I drink light beer,,, I don't really like beer, I just like to pee alot)

But seriously,, blisters are just a thing,, not the end of the world,,, heck when I was learning they used to call me "Bennie the Blister" We all get a blister from time to time, if its in a butt, just cut through the tape above the blister, flop it back add mud then flop it up again,,, If its in a flat (and the HO is not around, just staple it down and cover over it) 

I find that the toughest area to git er right is in the angles and corners,,, when your learning, you will find yourself pulling mud off the first side as you apply mud to the second side


----------



## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Heard wood glue works too. But you still need to hide the incision so still need to skim over.


----------



## MeatBallDryWall (Aug 28, 2008)

I worked for a guy 17 years ago & his answer to a blister was... "Cut it open & let the air out" :whistling Needless to say he isn't in business anymore & at that time he had like 20+ years hanging & finishing. :whistling So that just goes to show that some people are idiots no matter how much experience they have. 


arty:


----------



## Baron (Nov 23, 2009)

I've been taping since high school and that was so long ago I forget where that was.....Never put on more taping mud that you can immediately cover as it skins over if put on too thin or for too long of a time especially in very hot dry days. Always fill large voids with durabond before mudding as the newer muds are terrible for staying wet under thick spots and then re-wetting when a new layer is put over them.

I have had as many lifted seems from expansion movement in houses with Fibertapes so I stick with the paper finding the fiber isn't really much of an improvement to me.

I generally use in small rooms, durabond to fill holes and voids, easy sand for the fist two coats in same day and finish with pre mixed USG. Outside corners with durabond always as I can build them fast and they dry harder. Level of durabond with trowel when it is damp and still not completely hard makes next coat very easy and no sanding.

Bubbles I generally find come from too little a base coat, too much squeezed out or too much put on and it skinned over enough to cause a poor bond. 

Still occasionally I air head it, put on more mud than I can get covered quickly and I get a bubble at painting. Sucks at that time but I usually can remember why it happened when I see where it is.


----------



## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

there are a few reasons tape can blister so it really cant be answered unless you actually see each one to determine why .... example, taping over a wall that had wallpaper and the clay/ glue was not removed adequitely.. can most certainly cause it . there is no 1 reason for it..


----------

