# How about those extras?



## Carolina Mason (Nov 13, 2008)

I charge for all the obvious extras such as Coin Corners, Jack arches, etc. But I have never charged for Gables, Schafolding up, steps, and Window Seals. I have just been flat $600 a thousand. But lately the Mexican Brick crew came into town in a big way at $400+ - but they charge extra for everything from what I understand. So how much for Gables, and the second level of schafolding?

My work is far superior to most other bricklayers in the area but the contractors don't seem to care about anything but the $200 or so a thousand savings even though my work almost never needs cleaning after the job. Seems the better we get the more critical the customers get. I had a contractor stand with his face on my wall eyeballing up the wall at my bond line. and it passed too! (OK that part was a rant, sorry)


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## bobcaygeonjon (Aug 30, 2007)

Carolina Mason said:


> Seems the better we get the more critical the customers get.


 
You know that is so true. It really burns me at times.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

Carolina Mason said:


> I charge for all the obvious extras such as Coin Corners, Jack arches, etc. But I have never charged for Gables, Schafolding up, steps, and Window Seals. I have just been flat $600 a thousand. But lately the Mexican Brick crew came into town in a big way at $400+ - but they charge extra for everything from what I understand. So how much for Gables, and the second level of schafolding?
> 
> My work is far superior to most other bricklayers in the area but the contractors don't seem to care about anything but the $200 or so a thousand savings even though my work almost never needs cleaning after the job. Seems the better we get the more critical the customers get. I had a contractor stand with his face on my wall eyeballing up the wall at my bond line. and it passed too! (OK that part was a rant, sorry)


welcome to the united states of mexico!i have the same problem here in my part of oklahoma.i charge 650.00 a thousand.mexicans are coming in and bricking houses for 300.00 a thousand.
i have always charged extra for coin corners,columns,bay windows,gables,and full masonry fireplaces.
i recently fell off the scaffold and broke my shoulder.i was to lay the brick on a new house my bro in law built.i told him i couldnt do it and to hire his mexican crew that did the last house he built.(in fairness to him,i was to brick that house also,but homeowners didnt want to wait.)a couple weeks ago i got to see this last house and the work the mexicans did.driving past at about 55 mph it looked good.it is when you stop and walk up to it,that he looks like hell.walking to the front door,right at eye level is a bow in the wall.i put my level on it and it's about 3/4 in.on the solider the split a brick to get it to work,and the joint is so tight a ball point pen couldnt strike it.most of the window sills do not slope away from the window,but are close to level or slope back.on one window,there is a split under the sill,it goes from 1 1/2 to 1/2 from one side to the other.
i had thought about hiring this crew to lay a couple houses that i have to do and sit back and make 350 a thousand off of them and not do anything.but my i have a reputation as a very good mason and would never put my name on any off their work.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

just got a call from a man who is building him and his wife a new house.i spent 1/2 hour on the phone with him one night when he called me at 10 o clock.he told me he was building a new house and wanted me to brick it.then i spent over 2 hours with him and his wife in their office going over plans and figuring his brick for him.at that time he promised me the job over the mexicans.now he called today and tells me he is going to hire the mexicans.i dont care,i am starting to get pissed off now.i will call INS this time to make sure every worker on that crew is legal.so far in the last year i have lost at least $75,000.00 worth of work to mexicans,who then go to western union and send their money back to mexico.
i better not say any more


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Stacker, I learned the hard way: No quantity takeoff is given until I have a contract in hand. Screw that! They will just use your numbers and the cheap ass "contractor" who can't even DO takeoffs.


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## Carolina Mason (Nov 13, 2008)

Who can we call that will check them out the same day? They work the whole family from 6yrs old and up so their jobs don;t last long. I lost an addition last week on a fri and rode by on sat. just for kicks and guess who was there. Between that type of thing and the market in SC in general I'm worried as hell about this winter. I have NEVER seen it like this.


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## Michael Olding (Aug 5, 2008)

Hey Guys... it's time to wake up and smell the roses.

Your government is flooding this country with the illegals to keep your prices down so that the big companies have a pool of available and cheap labor. After all they have to be able to eventually compete against China and India so it isn't going to change.

You should be looking at ways to use your mind instead of your brawn. 20 yrs from now when you drop back into this forum for a quick look, guys will still be wondering and complaining about how to compete with $300 per 1000 for brickwork that the Chinese will be charging then.


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Carolina Mason said:


> My work is far superior to most other bricklayers in the area but the contractors don't seem to care about anything but the $200 or so a thousand savings even though my work almost never needs cleaning after the job. Seems the better we get the more critical the customers get. I had a contractor stand with his face on my wall eyeballing up the wall at my bond line. and it passed too! (OK that part was a rant, sorry)


Critical customers along with a good inspector allow me to do better work and be competitive. I love the "assholes" that want it done right. The critical generals that everybody complains about, they're the ones that will have everything ready for me when I get on their job. :thumbup:


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## bobcaygeonjon (Aug 30, 2007)

stacker said:


> i had thought about hiring this crew to lay a couple houses that i have to do and sit back and make 350 a thousand off of them and not do anything.but my i have a reputation as a very good mason and would never put my name on any off their work.


 
But if you did hire this crew and supervised them properly do you still think they couldnt turn out good enough work for you to put your name to?


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

more than likely i could.but you know as well as i that getting them to do the quality work will be hard to do.not only the language barrier,but also the style of which they lay will have to be addressed.i think it would be a challenge,and would love to try it,but not on a high dollar house.:no:


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## shake up!!! (Nov 15, 2008)

Carolina Mason said:


> Who can we call that will check them out the same day? They work the whole family from 6yrs old and up so their jobs don;t last long. I lost an addition last week on a fri and rode by on sat. just for kicks and guess who was there. Between that type of thing and the market in SC in general I'm worried as hell about this winter. I have NEVER seen it like this.


 I agree im near amish country and when they are hiring mexicans. Lets just say life is just a little harder. If your here legaly no problem. But when our leaders say there here to do the jobs nobody wants to do i totaly disagree. and now im going have to wash dishes.


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

stacker said:


> just got a call from a man who is building him and his wife a new house.i spent 1/2 hour on the phone with him one night when he called me at 10 o clock.he told me he was building a new house and wanted me to brick it.then i spent over 2 hours with him and his wife in their office going over plans and figuring his brick for him.at that time he promised me the job over the mexicans.now he called today and tells me he is going to hire the mexicans.i dont care,i am starting to get pissed off now.i will call INS this time to make sure every worker on that crew is legal.so far in the last year i have lost at least $75,000.00 worth of work to mexicans,who then go to western union and send their money back to mexico.
> i better not say any more


I'll say more. I'm in Southern California and I have never seen it as bad as it is now. Illegal Latinos have virtually flooded the business here and everything bad that can happen from that IS happening. 

I have reported literally dozens of bootleg projects being done by illegals and about the same number of subs who have blown smoke up my arse about how good they are and then have sent two 19 year old 
illegal non-English speakers to the site to perform the work. 
And as I understand, the GC can be on the hook for some of that responsibility if the site gets busted. But apparently, that's not anything to worry about, these mopes seem to have immunity granted by the ACLU or whatever bleeding-ass foundation that seems to stand behind this country getting ruined by border-runners.

I hope this doesn't happen, but if a terrorist cell ever gets a nuke or something like that across that practically undefended border with Mexico, then maybe we'll see an improvement. Mexifornia is a book that is no joke.

Yeah, I know, socio-political rant, possibly (definitely) off topic, certainly not politically correct. Tends to happen when you've served in the U.S. military, defended the freedom we have, and then seen your business get denigrated by people who break the law just by being here and the government doesn't seem to want to play hardball to stop it. 
Let 'em Habla Espanol all they want, just make it south of San Ysidro.


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## Carolina Mason (Nov 13, 2008)

Well guy's I wish I was the Lone Ranger on this but sadly it looks like we're all rowing in a full boat. I say we vote in a Mason into Congress!:thumbsup:
I really was thinking of starting a blackball website listing any business that choose cheap illegals over hard working AMERICANS! Probably wouldn't do much good, but if I was to tell XYZ Co. Hey you see your name listed on that Site for Companies that don't support americans? It might just hit a cord with them.MIGHT And as far as they are only taking the jobs Americans don't want, not one person has asked me if I want my job! I love IT! And Want IT! Does anyone know someone that has said Hey I don't want my job give it to a illegal that needs it please. BULL


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## Carolina Mason (Nov 13, 2008)

_*Originally Posted by stacker*_
*i had thought about hiring this crew to lay a couple houses that i have to do and sit back and make 350 a thousand off of them and not do anything.but my i have a reputation as a very good mason and would never put my name on any off their work.*

Go ah_ead, train them to be good. Then you'll be adding to your problem 10 time over. I understand needing income while your down but find some american to give you a hand if at all possable._


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

I've worked alongside illegals that I had great respect for as masons. Mind you I would never hire them. I've also called immigration on others. Not only was it a hassle it also brought no results.


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## custom patios (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, I know, socio-political rant, possibly (definitely) off topic, certainly not politically correct. Tends to happen when you've served in the U.S. military, defended the freedom we have, and then seen your business get denigrated by people who break the law just by being here and the government doesn't seem to want to play hardball to stop it. 
Let 'em Habla Espanol all they want, just make it south of San Ysidro.[/quote]


RANT??!! i dont hear ranting, I hear a true AMERICAN voicing as he should. 
I have to say besides the illegals, its the white trash  that hire them illegals that are in my crosshairs!! Greed of money for these lazy white trash :furious:!! I hire nothing but hard working white workers and it has become more and more difficult to find a white man who wants to work hard and be a skilled craftsman. whats up with that!! 
I say stand up, support the minutemen and join the good fight. I'm tired of losing work to low balling scum, and working harder and longer to earn less.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

tkle said:


> I've worked alongside illegals that I had great respect for as masons. Mind you I would never hire them. I've also called immigration on others. Not only was it a hassle it also brought no results.


i too have worked along side some good mexican masons.but it was on a job where we were all being paid the same(or close to it),and they were legals.i dont have a problem with the legal mexicans.its the illegals,i have a problem with.if they were legal how can the drive 150 miles to lay a house for 300 a thousand and pay taxes,unemployment,insurance.....hell i can barely do it at 650.00 and not have the drive.

last year in oklahoma we our state passed some of the toughest immigration laws in the nation.but i have yet to see any change.they only change made was a group of bleeding hearts forced the author of the bill back into bankruptcy court to challege an 11,000.00 loan he made his campain.

monday i am sure there will be a crew of mexicans in town bricking four houses that i bid.i even cut my price on that bid due to the fact all the house were in a line and i wouldnt have to move equipment.but they still got the bid.


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

stacker said:


> i too have worked along side some good mexican masons.but it was on a job where we were all being paid the same(or close to it),and they were legals.i dont have a problem with the legal mexicans.its the illegals,i have a problem with.if they were legal how can the drive 150 miles to lay a house for 300 a thousand and pay taxes,unemployment,insurance.....hell i can barely do it at 650.00 and not have the drive.
> 
> last year in oklahoma we our state passed some of the toughest immigration laws in the nation.but i have yet to see any change.they only change made was a group of bleeding hearts forced the author of the bill back into bankruptcy court to challege an 11,000.00 loan he made his campain.
> 
> monday i am sure there will be a crew of mexicans in town bricking four houses that i bid.i even cut my price on that bid due to the fact all the house were in a line and i wouldnt have to move equipment.but they still got the bid.


I have no problem with hard working men doing what they need to do in support of their families. I do have a problem with low balling sh!t slingers citizen or not.


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## Carolina Mason (Nov 13, 2008)

Well this brings me back to the origanal question. If they ar 300+- a thousand do they charge for things that us at 5 to 650 a thousand don't? Gables, Steps, hell maybe even wall ties!:shutup:

Also are we just noticing the pinch of illegals worse becouse of the bad housing market? Work is just slim picking with the same amount of brick layers.:blink:


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

When you bid a flat per thousand price or per square foot price, you are really wrong. What happens then is that you get the tough jobs with the hard, costly stuff to build. When you look back, your costs seem high, so you just change your sqaure foot price, causing you to be uncompetitive on staright work without the extras. You must know your costs and charge for the unusual or extras since that makes sense to most people.

Maybe someone is smarter and adding for the extras (which makes sense if it is a real bid), instead of taking the easy way out and going per thousamd or per square foot.

If people look at prices, they look at what they think and blindly compare the base costs. - Then you just get the jobs you are too low on because your sf price is a little high and do not have a chance on the ones that give you some work and cost to improve future bidding and pricing.

A sharp immigrant has an advantage since they can speak and understand at least two languages (you probably only know one) and know when to say they do not understand.

If someone is willing to work too cheap, you just have to point out the differences and loopholes in the pricing and make the customer realize what you offer. If it is a "flipper" or a short term owner, there is little you can do except not wasting any more time.


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