# Building Inspector/ Code Enforcement blues



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I was thinking we need a new thread on the BS we put up with from super intelligent building inspectors and code officials. Horror stories anyone? :w00t:


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

The Bldg. Dept. is getting 3 - 7 newbies. How's that for horror?

Just about the time you get the last batch broken in..........


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I was thinking about what ccs posted in relation to a county inspector not liking the new house wrap, since it didn't say a brand name he was OK with.

I will go head to head with an inspector after I found out the law will not protect them from their own stupidity. If I get a red tag, which I did last year, and I know I'm right and he is wrong, I go for it...lost time, damages, his ass...the works. Since I am in a small town, I can fight back...I would hate to be in California and let the house rot of old age before you even got to court to prove the idiot wrong.

The guy who applied for the job after the idiot left told me he didn't like what I did, and I winked at him and asked if his bond was valid. He took the hint and withdrew his application. Now we have a decnt inspector who is a retired builder...and a reasonable, nice guy. When he has an opinion, I listen because I respect him.


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## theman (Dec 25, 2003)

*Bld Inspector ?*

Josis

What is your definition :clap: of a good Bld. Inspector/ CEO

Someone you can work with, nice guy, fair, helps you out,
shows up when you call,easy to work with,looks the other way. 
a few thoughts 
or
someone who is suppose to enforce the state, local and national codes, by the way you are suppose to build to these same codes 

:clap:


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## R&S Exteriors (Aug 4, 2006)

theman said:


> Josis
> 
> What is your definition :clap: of a good Bld. Inspector/ CEO
> 
> ...


I don't remember Joasis saying anything about "*looking the other way*". I think his problems were with inspectors that didn't know what they were doing.

How about somebody who actually knows what the codes are and doesn't make it up as he goes. Someone who has been trained on the codes or at least how to read a book and not someone who use to be a "builder" but could not make it so he became a codes enforcer.

Somebody who has good people skills and not someone who shows up wanting conflict and inventing ways to get it.

Someone who is not a "know it all" and is willing to admit when they are proved wrong instead of someone who digs in their heels and refuses to admit when wrong.

I guess just someone who knows their job and does it professional.

There are many great Inspectors out there and there are more bad ones.


I take it from you post (the man) that you view your job as an adversarial one with the contractors. Can't an inspector be


> Someone you can work with, nice guy, fair, helps you out,
> shows up when you call,easy to work with


 and still


> enforce the state, local and national codes


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Here, a building inspector has to be a CBC. Why is a CBC a building inspector? The only reason that I can come up with is that he failed. Some rebel and raise H.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

If you guys look back on your jobs at the "requests" the inspectors make.... well, if your in a big enough town to have more than one anyhow... you will notice each month thier "nitpick" list changes to something new, but mirror each other. There's a mag that comes out monthly in most places that is sent to inspectors and talks about "new things" and code changes that may or may not be upcoming. Sorta sticks in thier brains.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

theman said:


> Josis
> 
> What is your definition :clap: of a good Bld. Inspector/ CEO
> 
> ...



I can't even imagine what you were thinking by suggesting we want inspectors to turn the other way. Fair and looks the other way doesn't even fit in the same sentence. 

Of course, we expect the codes will be enforced, and we build to better then code standards. My point of contention are the inspectors with very little true knowledge, or experience, and an overwhelming desire to pretend they really know it all.

If those reading this follow building practices and technology, you know the construction fields are changing quickly...with new building systems and methods every week it seems like. A city inspector several years ago held up construction of an ICF home since the code book didn't address it, even though an engineer was available, to explain what was going on. The contractor had to go to civil court and have a judge end the "red tag" stop.

So "theman", do you think contractors and builders should glad hand and kiss a little a$$ to the valued inspector? Do you think a building inspector is automatically right because they read a periodical magazine telling them new things to look for? Or maybe you think inspectors are far smarter then the professional engineer that designed the trusses I was using and the inspector red tagged me for?


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

joasis said:


> I was thinking we need a new thread on the BS we put up with from super intelligent building inspectors and code officials. Horror stories anyone? :w00t:


****


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

Actually, what would be more entertaining are the stories that building inspectors would have about:

Hack 'I can start right away' contractors

'Ex office worker'- wanna be contractors

Joe Home Owner - contractors

Etc..

add to the list.

Side note: I stopped by a job that my biz. partner had set up for doing the Drywall. A re-habbed house....OMG.:blink: 
There was a 'General Contracting company' doing the 'work' there. I stopped by because my biz partner had said that these guys are green and don't seem to have a clue. They had said =-allset for the sheetrock.  Sure enough, we had to 'nicely' go through the house and show them all the additional work that they had to do, to be ready for sheetrock.
Pathetic, you should have seen the puppy dog blank looks on their faces. 2 guys...partners in 'business'. I know that they don't have any kind of license. They were clueless, but walked around like the big cheeses. I don't even see how they could've passed a permit on it. They had a lawn sign out front: XXXX Construction - "New homes, additions, remodeling....". More like: Walking lawsuits....


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Ok Atlantic....you got one there! If our code enforcement was more strict, I know a lot of guys who would blow it on day one. My neighbor across the street has been watching too many "flip this house" type of shows and are currently loosing their tails on a house they bought to flip...and lo and behold, the state inspector came by and clued them in on a few things...like you cannot do plumbing and electrical work on anything EXCEPT your own, occupied residence. Then the state guy goes to see our local guy and asks why he isn't on the job...and finds out our town has no remodeling codes......oh boy.


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## fox builders (Jul 26, 2006)

*inspectors*

here in MA we have inspectors for everything of which we should.
We have come across a few bad ones over the years but in small towns in NH that we have worked in one guy inspects everything he doesn't even have a back ground in construction only what he reads this guy I have no respect for and his lack of knowledge has cost a few h-o money by signing off on some real bad work my sister being one of them. No I don't work for family.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

I'm afraid the quality of inspector's might be directly tied to the salary most places are willing (or not willing) to pay for qualified candidates. 

I think its really odd that some small communities have no objection to paying $50-100K a year for principles and administrators for their schools, but won't even consider paying more than $10-$12 dollars an hour for qualified building code inspection officials to inspect the construction, repair, or additions to those schools.

More money doesn't always mean more quality, but it can mean more qualified candidates.


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## HUMMERHUMMER (Apr 8, 2006)

If most contractors would take time to review the code, installation procedures and Supervise their jobs, you wouldn't need building inspectors.(This is not intended for you "the perfect contractor")Most problems come down to supervision and having a qualified individual supervising. I know that we all make mistakes(including inspectors) and sometimes it's hard to accept mistakes, but the public (owners) deserves a good job.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Speaking for myself, the few things I've gotten dinged for over the years were not mistakes. They were items that I never knew about. I consider myself to know more about my trade's codes than many, but still, "you don't know what you don't know", if you know what I mean. :blink: The role of inspector as teacher is appreciated by me.


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## HUMMERHUMMER (Apr 8, 2006)

yet the role of the inspector is not to teach. It's to inspect. Many contractors get use to calling for inspection and letting the inspector do the punch out. I'm sure all (most) contractors have a Building Code just like the inspector yet many get use to building a certain product and when faced with a different scenario will apply the same techniques, just because they have done it that way for 20 years.


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## sheeter (Sep 28, 2006)

I agree with HUMMERHUMMER, many builders never study the specifications or installation procedures recommended by the manufacturers. If all the trades would research the products that they used and installed them per the manufacturers specs, they would never be sued for liability or be turned down on an inspection. I have yet to see a residential builder install TYVEK brand house wrap per the specs. Granted that I have only built ten houses in my construction career, I have built high rise buildings all over the US and Puerto Rico and I see a lot working out of town. Recently, in SC, I saw a vinyl siding crew installing siding on OSB with no house wrap behind it.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

> Many contractors get use to calling for inspection and letting the inspector do the punch out.


I've been accused of that but when you have more than 60 inspectors and a local code that states each inspector has the final word on interpreting the code, I just wait to see what each has to say. 

I recently got involved in a moving an existing home 35 miles. Electric, plumbing, and hvac were total redo's to current code. That part was simple. The building. I requested and was willing to pay for a pre-inspection on the structure by the inspector for that area. They said they could not do that so I spoke to the inspector several times and he stated that the structure had to be brought to current code. 

Ok I have a 100 year old house that was approved by the building dept to be moved. I have a lady that paid $35000 to move this thing. I have a structure with ungraded lumber, no insulation, single pane windows, and on and on and on. The only way i knew of to bring this to current code was to level it and start over. So we reluctantly called for inspection as it stood.... The inspector passed it the first time without any list at all. I was in shock for the rest of the day.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Rob 53 said:


> We fired/let go a guy one time and he came back a few months later and the Building Inspector. Never held a grudge though. He really shouldn't have been an inspector back then but now he is going on 20 years.


Hey Rob, who was that anyway?


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

HUMMERHUMMER said:


> yet the role of the inspector is not to teach. It's to inspect.


Yeah, no kidding, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm on top of my game, and smarter than many. I'd talking about truly oddball things. I might get 2 red tags a year, and they are for really odd things. The inspectors are all to happy to explain, and I appreciate that. Plus, when you mix old work with new work on the same job, there's a lot of grey area that is up to interpretation.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

RobertCDF said:


> Hey Rob, who was that anyway?


I'll pm you.


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## sckeeth (May 11, 2006)

Out here in calif. we have building and city inspectors. When I built my house we had to put a horse trail in front, what a friggin joke, the city inspector is in charge of that They made us take it out and recompact the dg three times to a 95% compacition rate!!!!!!!! It's a friggin horse trail for goodness sake it had to be better than my final grade in my yard. The problem is that these inspectors sign everything off and then another inspector inspects there inspections. Talk about a giant pain the a--!!!!! I argued with him about it several times I said the damn horses run up and down steep rocky hills on the city trails and you want this flat trail to be better than there crappy asphalt patch jobs that sank three inches 20 feet from where the horse trail is, his response is "yea they don't inspect that". What a bunch of nancy's so afraid to make a decision on there own, and be realisitic.


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## thill (Oct 2, 2006)

*Most inspectors are OK, BUT....*

Guys in business for the long-term always try to do work they will never have to go back to. They use smart, proven methods and materials, and they don't mind suggestions.

In my opinion, most inpsectors are A-OK and deserve a lot of credit. It is a difficult job they have to do. But every once in a while there is one who thrives on his ability to cause chaos or throw his weight around.

One Maryland inspector had a terrible reputation, and I drew his card building in a certain neighborhood. He started making up stuff! I listened carefully, and then asked him WHY. Half the stuff had a logical reason, surprisingly, but he then qualified them as "suggestions." The other half kind of disappeared under scrutiny.

I stayed friendly, followed his suggestions, and found that some were good, and some were bad. When he came back, we had animated conversation, and I explained my findings to him. He thanked me for the "hands-on" experience and taking the time to talk to him. Worked out great. Not perfect, but a decent working relationship.

I found out later, that the respect I showed him saved my bacon. Was told countless horror stories of guys who argued with him, and how he ABUSED his power and cost them thousands trying to fight him.

Later, I had him do something like this to me. He failed an inspection, (Due to NO snacks in the work trailer, that day!!!) and then went on VACATION!!! His super refused to get involved, so a foundation sat for A MONTH! He came back, called me and gave my job the green light, with NO EXPLANATION!

I took it and said nothing, but now there is ALWAYS fresh coffee and little debbies in the trailer. Half the time he takes a big handfull and does little or no walk through. My respect for him is much lower. He knows we work hard to do good work, and is abusing that knowledge.

Inspectors who have a power or insecurity thing going are NOT doing anyone a service. I want an inspector who does just that. Not just eat doughnuts and drink coffee, and get abusive if he doesn't like you.

Most inspectors are A-OK in my book, but there are some exceptions...

-TH


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

thill said:


> In my opinion, most inpsectors are A-OK and deserve a lot of credit. It is a difficult job they have to do. But every once in a while there is one who thrives on his ability to cause chaos or throw his weight around.Inspectors who have a power or insecurity thing going are NOT doing anyone a service. I want an inspector who does just that. Not just eat doughnuts and drink coffee, and get abusive if he doesn't like you.
> 
> Most inspectors are A-OK in my book, but there are some exceptions...
> 
> -TH


My point exactly! The good ones are fine, the bad ones leave a taste in your mouth, and it ain't cherries!


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## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

Teetorbilt said:


> The Bldg. Dept. is getting 3 - 7 newbies. How's that for horror?
> 
> Just about the time you get the last batch broken in..........


Can relate to that. Since Hurricane Katrina many of the inspectors have gone back to "working" as they can make three times more in the private sector . The new guys always seem to have to impress you with their authority or knowledge of some completetly trivial point. We have always built with a "no violation" goal and never have trouble getting flagged with legitimate issues. It is a nuisance for a few jobs, but we just placate them on the stupid requests, and they come to recognize that our jobs are going to be clean, and their egoes don't get bruised.


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## nadonailer (Nov 15, 2005)

Just failed a final for the back bedroom not having a smoke detector! Why is that ridiculous? 

I was doing a kitchen remodel!

:blink:


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## cssconstruct (Jun 19, 2006)

What Jay is talking about are the inspectors that go "I know this is okay, but I think it might be better this way." Somebody mentioned earlier about builders changing with the times, when I think it is the other way around. With all the new products that come out, we see the products and use them before the codes dept knows some of these products. I had run ins with the county over the type of house wrap I used. I used a brand that was new to the area, and the inspector had never seen it, thus we had some unneccesarry paperwork that followed. An inspection should not be(although I know it is) an inspectors wish list. I don't mind an honest issue we all miss some things, but please no more of the, "I'm not sure about this." What do you mean your not sure? I know it is okay so by God you SHOULD know it's okay, you're the inspector!


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## jwaldman97 (Sep 22, 2006)

nadonailer said:


> Just failed a final for the back bedroom not having a smoke detector! Why is that ridiculous?
> 
> I was doing a kitchen remodel!
> 
> :blink:


Section R104.2 of the 2003 IRC (got it right in front of me)

Applications and permits.
The building official shall receive applications, review construction documents and issue permits for the erection and alteration of buildings and structures, *inspect the premises for which such permits have been issued* and enforce compliance with the provisions of the code.


I've gone around and around with a building inspector about this before. You can not inspect what was not permitted. That would be like going to inspect an outside water line replacement and fail the contractor/HO for not having one 36" exterior door that goes to the outside. BTW....I was a building inspector at the time.

It seems that most building depts adopt the ICC Existing Building code, but have never read the darn thing or knows where/how it's applied.

Yeah, as an Inspector, I've gone into remodels and have made suggestions/recommendations to bring a few things up to code that I saw, but had no right to fail them for any. It wasn't permitted work.

Plain and simple. Inspectors are NOT GOD. I never thought I was GOD. Some love the POWER. I took the position as a way to see that builders build safer, not to throw some imaginary weight around.

I still do inspections, as third party. Keep my ICC certificates up to date and my membership. I bagged the City job and went back into the electrical field. I make a heck of a lot more money......*and I don't have the friggin politics. :thumbup: *


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## jwaldman97 (Sep 22, 2006)

cssconstruct said:


> What Jay is talking about are the inspectors that go "I know this is okay, but I think it might be better this way." Somebody mentioned earlier about builders changing with the times, when I think it is the other way around. With all the new products that come out, we see the products and use them before the codes dept knows some of these products. I had run ins with the county over the type of house wrap I used. I used a brand that was new to the area, and the inspector had never seen it, thus we had some unneccesarry paperwork that followed. An inspection should not be(although I know it is) an inspectors wish list. I don't mind an honest issue we all miss some things, but please no more of the, "I'm not sure about this." What do you mean your not sure? I know it is okay so by God you SHOULD know it's okay, you're the inspector!


In defense of the Inspector.....(not really)....it's time consuming enough to try to keep up to date on all the code changes (ICC does do cycle supplements), let alone keep up with all the trades' new "items". 

But, there's always the internet to find info on new items. Some inspectors use the info highway and some wish to remain ignorant. :whistling 

I'm always surfing.


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## jwaldman97 (Sep 22, 2006)

thill said:


> I want an inspector who does just that. Not just eat doughnuts and drink coffee.....
> -TH


I had to fail an inspection once. It was a late in the day inspection and the General already had the next crew lined up for first thing in the morning. He really needed to be able to continue his schedule. What he had to do to pass inspection was going to take a few hours and my shift was over. 

Because I felt that I was NOT out there to make anyone's life miserable, I agreed to "show up" for work early the next morning and stop by on my way to the office. I told him to have doughnuts.

He did. The work he had to do to pass was done. He passed and only had 1/2 hour down time.

What most inspectors/building officials forget is the fact that their salaries are paid by the public (contractor/homeowner, whoever) by way of permit fees and that they are not only an authority figure and I give them that respect, but a public servant as well.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

doesn't matter ...

codes, officials, permits, etc.

all forms of taxation, sooner or later


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

ooops


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

ooops


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

jwaldman97 said:


> In defense of the Inspector.....(not really)....it's time consuming enough to try to keep up to date on all the code changes (ICC does do cycle supplements), let alone keep up with all the trades' new "items".
> 
> But, there's always the internet to find info on new items. Some inspectors use the info highway and some wish to remain ignorant. :whistling
> 
> I'm always surfing.


A poor excuse for anyone in the trades would be no time or limited time to stay current with all information out there. I would expect a building inspector to know the code book front and back, and not pull something out of his ass as law. 

One of the idiots hired by our town red tagged a new construction job because the windows weren't code....(3/0-3/0) and I asked him to show me...he said it was my job to keep up with what is legal, he wasn't in school, so if I think I need to see it, I could find it. I nearly beat him back to town hall and with my code book (BOCA '96 at that time, the city adopted IRC shortly after) asked him to show me again...I had it bookmarked for these things...he refused again. So I showed him my reference, and said unless he could show me something new, I would hold him ( a contracted inspector) responsible for any damages....his story changes...said he was quoting ICC....I said whatever..and my ret tag went away...he was gone a few weeks later, but I stood my ground with this clown. There is a lot more to the story, but he really thought he was God. What he was showing everyone was those who can do, those who can't become inspectors.


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## jwaldman97 (Sep 22, 2006)

joasis said:


> One of the idiots hired by our town red tagged a new construction job because the windows weren't code....(3/0-3/0) and I asked him to show me...
> 
> .....What he was showing everyone was those who can do, those who can't become inspectors.


I think after our city had adopted the ICC codes, the window egress was one of the hottest items. Code specifically says measurement of "NET OPENING". Rough opening meant nothing to me....

The second comment ..... well I see what you're saying, but those of us who do know and become inspectors....well some of us aren't so bad.


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## jwaldman97 (Sep 22, 2006)

Rob 53 said:


> She comes out to one of my jobs one day to inspect the septic system. Basic leach field with 3 -150' trenches with pipe and rock. So she goes into the trenches and pulls out this 8" level and starts futsing with it so I asked her what she does with that level? She says she checks to see if the trenches are level. (150' long 1-1/2 in rock). So she showed me. You plop it down on a couple of rocks and move it around until it reads level. She said that's the way all the inspectors do it. I thought no wonder the installers don't like her..
> 
> Next day i bought her an eye level and showed her how to use it.


Up North we use to install septic systems, most of them were sand mounds. THere was only ONE time that an inspector ever double checked the level of a bed. He pulled up on the site and got his laser out. Mine was still set up, but he wanted to use his own.

Of course we passed, but he did make a comment about some just can't manage to make a level bed.

I was just pretty impressed that he went through the trouble to set his own up.


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## kandmenterprise (Oct 5, 2006)

*nightmare on inspection street*

I worked for a company about 10 years ago that fired a Superintendent over some kind of disagreement. about 2 weeks later we were on a jobsite waiting for an inspection and here comes that super that had been fired. None of us had any problems with him and talked to him for about 20 minutes then the new super told him that it might not so good if the inspector came in and he was on the jobsite since he didnt work for the company anymore. He said oh thats o.k. i am the new inspector and you failed, have a nice day. This idiot then turned and left. The new super called the office and let them know what had happened. The general super got on the phone to the inspection dept. and they could not tell him why we had failed because there were no reasons on the form. long story short 4 re-inspections at $125 each and a lawsuit and the county had to reimburse all fees and attorney fees. The moral of this story most inspectors are idiots that have very little actual experience in the fields they are inspecting and if you piss one off you are at their mercy. Be careful.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

kandmenterprise said:


> most inspectors are idiots that have very little actual experience in the fields they are inspecting and if you piss one off you are at their mercy. Be careful.



That's b/c they could care less. In fact, you're right, many do not even know the first thing about what they're looking at sometimes.

Permits, again, are a form of taxation. Yeah, they might be to "check up" on unscrupulous contractors --- but the gov't figures any problems will be between the contractor and client

TAXATION TAXATION TAXATION

******************

BY THE WAY

I've never heard of someone applying, interviewing, and starting a government job in 2 weeks ...


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

kandmenterprise said:


> The moral of this story most inspectors are idiots that have very little actual experience in the fields they are inspecting and if you piss one off you are at their mercy.



That's a mighty broad statement, - - I've met plenty of good inspectors.

Actually, - - pecentage-wise, - - I'd say I've run into more bad contractors than bad inspectors.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Tom R said:


> That's a mighty broad statement, - - I've met plenty of good inspectors.
> 
> Actually, - - pecentage-wise, - - I'd say I've run into more bad contractors than bad inspectors.



Sheesh!! You guys sure are hard t' get a rise out of sometimes . . . :laughing:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Tom R said:


> Sheesh!! You guys sure are hard t' get a rise out of sometimes . . . :laughing:


Shrug... What's to argue about. When you're right, you're right.


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