# JLC February Issue Has Wedi in shower



## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

He routs out channels for pex radiant pipes in 2'' foam sheets that where install on the floor . It seems like a great idea for a 2 in one process . No need for mud jobs or under sheeting pipe installs . May just have to try this out on a job on day .


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Was that only the shower? Otherwise, I'd have an issue raising the floor height >2".


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

On all bathroom floor .


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Great concept. I don't see how that would work in a real house. Step up bathroom?


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

Wood have to see your entrance's height to see if it could work . They went with it to match wedi's prefabricated shower base to have flush floor .


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

2" increase...I cannot fathom how that would work. 

I'm not saying anything bad about Wedi or the concept. But even a mud job is only 1.5" thick. 2" would not work unless the bathroom floor framing was altered or the entire rest of the house was raised.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

It is an addition that is framed lower than the existing and adjacent room


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Well, there ya go :laughing:


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

What about if you use 1'' or 1 1/2 '' wedi with rout out for pex . Dont now what wedi says on how much depth you can use .


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

The foam won't help radiate the heat like a cementitious material would. Sure, if might help hold the heat from hitting the subfloor some, but your heating would be uneven and would most likely be felt as strips on the tile. 

I would think, at most, 1/4" under the pex and then build your floor.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

angus242 said:


> The foam won't help radiate the heat like a cementitious material would. Sure, if might help hold the heat from hitting the subfloor some, but your heating would be uneven and would most likely be felt as strips on the tile.
> 
> I would think, at most, 1/4" under the pex and then build your floor.



What about the size of rout in foam would that help say 2'' wide slot .


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Radiant heat does just that, radiates. If you insulate on 3 sides (encase in foam), you are not allowing the heat to disperse throughout the entire substrate. I suppose, eventually, the heat will flow through the tile but I still believe you will have hot spots felt on the tile directly under where the PEX is located. 

There is a reason most installations are recommended to be encased within a cementitious material.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

angus242 said:


> Radiant heat does just that, radiates. If you insulate on 3 sides (encase in foam), you are not allowing the heat to disperse throughout the entire substrate. I suppose, eventually, the heat will flow through the tile but I still believe you will have hot spots felt on the tile directly under where the PEX is located.
> 
> There is a reason most installations are recommended to be encased within a cementitious material.




Just thinking out loud . . .:detective:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Nothing wrong with that!


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Was that only the shower? Otherwise, I'd have an issue raising the floor height >2".



Angus lots of our projects end up with raised bathroom floors. Not all my clients are in need of barrier free homes. They like barrier free showers and some times that makes a raised bathroom floor.

We normally address it with a custom wood transition.

Like this.




























I made this one on site with left over hardwood flooring. Looks great.

The elevation changes is around 1 3/4" and feathered out over about 5". I like returning the transition around the jamb and when there is casing cut the wall casing to match.


As for Wedi on the floors - 2" over radiant heat pipe??? :laughing: Are they trying to trap the heat in the floor? Sounds like an advertising issue like the Kerdi Board project in Fine Home Building. Give a guy a ton of product and watch him us it for everything... :laughing:

I'm liking the data on the Wedi board but would only use it I think for steam shower builds where we have exterior walls to deal with. If We had a time constraints or multiple job at one build I may also look into it. 

JW


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> As for Wedi on the floors - 2" over radiant heat pipe??? :laughing: Are they trying to trap the heat in the floor? Sounds like an advertising issue like the Kerdi Board project in Fine Home Building. Give a guy a ton of product and watch him us it for everything... :laughing:
> JW



The radiant heat pipes are on top .


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

On top - got it

Then what?

I found it hard getting any solid advice for a similar project that had similar groves cut into a radiant panel board

I believe it needs to be topped with a slip joint and a full mortar bed 

A flexible mortar like Grani Rapid I think would offer up the best protection from mortar fatigue but topping with an inch and a half of reinforced mortar bed would be bomb proof

Then anti fracture or waterproofing

Tough install 

Will have to check it out. Is the article online?


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

http://jlconline.com




Check it out its on there site .


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## Ethos (Feb 21, 2012)

I also imagine Wedi foam would insulate to the point of making the system less effective. I would imagine the R value of even 1" of that closed cell foam would equal about 3"-6" of mortar and tile, as stone typically has very little R value, but I could be wrong.

I love the Wedi pans though. They create very little opportunity for error, and you can have a pan set in about an hour if you know what you're doing. The material is light and easy to work with. And while it's expensive, unless you charge nothing for labor, the difference between a Wedi pan and a mud pan is negligible to your overall cost. Yeah, you'll make less for your labor, but since it increases your speed, you can get more done and make your customers happier. Plus, they claim that it has a much lower failure rate than traditional rubber lined pans.

That said I worked for a company that didn't train some of its guys on Wedi and there were failures. The 2 failures I saw came from different causes. The first failure was from letting the sealant skim over. They put the sealant down, and then went to cut their piece, and stick it on. As a result, the foam-foam sealant bond was compromised. The other failure I saw was where they didn't put thinset on the back of the pan, only the floor. They also mixed the thinset too dry, or let it skin over before setting their pan. In addition to this, they didn't walk the pan and set some weight on it for overnight. The pan didn't leak, but the homeowner didn't understand why his shower floor was flexible and bouncing when he moved around on it. Both were replaced by Wedi-certified employees and didn't have further issue. After that $8000 headache, they made Wedi training mandatory. :laughing:


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