# U-Shaped Kitchen Layout Ideas



## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

*U-Shaped Kitchen Layout Ideas - Sketch Updated!*

Gentlemen,

So I'm looking at a kitchen remodel and would appreciate help on one particular issue - layout.

Typical u-shaped kitchen with the sink under the window. The sink is the only thing that can't be moved. Other than that, clean slate. Kitchen area's about 12' (east wall to pillar) x 14' (north wall to south wall).

The thing I get stuck on is the fridge. I hate the way this big appliance creates hidden space behind it. That is, if you stick the fridge at the south end of the counters on either the north or south walls, then it encloses that section of the room behind it, creates a blind area.

But the east wall seems unsuitable for a fridge, and destroys the triangle. Corners are terrible.

Are there any greatnew layout ideas for this traditional kitchen that solves the "big fat sight-line blocker" problem?

Thanks.


UPDATE: Added a second sketch. First one was a gif and some people couldn't see it. New one's a jpg - crossin' my fingers.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Can't you post a plan or sketch or something?
A word description just doesn't cut it.

Andy.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Can't you post a plan or sketch or something?
> A word description just doesn't cut it.
> 
> Andy.


I posted a sketch. I see it when I visit this page. Do others not?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Nothing shows up.


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

Nothing here either, just your "text"


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Just so you don't feel crazy, it is there on my screen.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

Here it is...


U


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

KentWhitten said:


> Just so you don't feel crazy, it is there on my screen.


I tried FF IE and Chrome and can see nothing.

Maybe you can re-post it Kent?

Andy.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I see the problem. Bob, you uploaded the images to your profile photo album here on CT and linked to them in your post. However, the album is marked Private.

Mods have access, but no one else does.

I just changed the status. Everyone should be able to see the images now.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

bob_cntrctr said:


> The thing I get stuck on is the fridge. I hate the way this big appliance creates hidden space behind it. That is, if you stick the fridge at the south end of the counters on either the north or south walls, then it encloses that section of the room behind it, creates a blind area.


I don't follow, can you explain? How is the refrigerator creating a hidden space? It belongs on either the north or south wall.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> I see the problem. Bob, you uploaded the images to your profile photo album here on CT and linked to them in your post. However, the album is marked Private.
> 
> Mods have access, but no one else does.
> 
> I just changed the status. Everyone should be able to see the images now.


Thanks muchly.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I don't follow, can you explain? How is the refrigerator creating a hidden space? It belongs on either the north or south wall.


Yes, that would be my first thought too and the standard layout.

But - by "hidden space", I mean, imagine you're sitting in the dining room looking into the kitchen - the fridge blocks the view into the kitchen along the wall it's on. It's this big monolith sticking out from the wall, making the room seem smaller by blocking the sight-line along the counters.


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## Miss Brown (Mar 30, 2011)

I'd build a wall next to the door on the north side next to the door and tuck the fridge into that. Dishwasher to right of the sink, stove on the south side, thin rolling island in the middle, (mobile cutting board!) The fridge, if you put it on the south end will just make that post impossible to get around. Depending on aesthetics and these folks, I might try to add a bar between the post and the S. end counter top, but that may not be correct...haveta see it. Which way does the door swing? 

Hey, speaking of, how do you charge for layout advice? I spend a lot of time drawing floor plans for jobs, 1. because I like doing it, and 2. because H.O. doesn't know how and I want to get the work done....and I ahem, never charge them. But it's getting ridiculous, if I screw up my measurements, and the cabinets don't fit, guess who gets to pay for it? Haven't done that yet. Yet.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Here, maybe start with this. Print it out and show some measurements, then scan it and post.

Andy.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Miss Brown said:


> I'd build a wall next to the door on the north side next to the door and tuck the fridge into that.


I've used fridge panels before for just that purpose in other units. it hides the fridge, but still creates this big wall-like surface that blocks sight-lines to the counter.



> Which way does the door swing?


There's no door. Just a doorway.



Miss Brown said:


> Hey, speaking of, how do you charge for layout advice? I spend a lot of time drawing floor plans for jobs, 1. because I like doing it, and 2. because H.O. doesn't know how and I want to get the work done....and I ahem, never charge them. But it's getting ridiculous, if I screw up my measurements, and the cabinets don't fit, guess who gets to pay for it? Haven't done that yet. Yet.


Well, I have the great luxury of sort of being the client. I manage a host of rental units in mostly older buildings. There's almost always one or another unit getting this reno or that. This is one of those units, and the design is just part of my job.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

bob_cntrctr,

The first thing is as you can see from the re-draw below, your drawing is way off scale... 

There is really not enough info to help you here with a layout... 

If you could provide the following measurements...


1. Width and Depth of Frig (make and model would be best)
2. Distance from East Wall to Door to family Room
3. Distance from South Wall to Pillar
4. Sink base size
5. Window Size
6. Distance from South Wall to right of Window
7. Distance from North Wall to left of Window
8. Size of Pillar (circumference)

Without this info, the obvious design choice to me would be the north wall in a Refrigerator Cab (better to look at the side of a cab, than the side of a frig or behind it). The reason is when you walk into a room, your eyes track to the farthest distance. If you place the Frig on the South wall, you now have two vertical dimensions to visually absorb when you walk into the room and considering the window location, which will not be moved, you would also be cutting off the natural light into the room. Coming into the room from the Door to the Family Room your eyes will track to the light coming from the window, which is closer to the south wall, thereby bringing the light across the room and de-emphasizing the Frig Cab and the Pillar as you walk in.

More info the better to be able to help you...


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Here, maybe start with this. Print it out and show some measurements, then scan it and post.
> 
> Andy.


Wow - you've got way better layout software than me. Apparently there are better things than MS Word.

But I don't want to drag anyone into actually designing this layout for me - as much as I appreciate the offer.

Really I'm trying to focus on the specific aspect of it dealing with fridge placement. That is - a fridge is just a big honkin' obelisk that blocks the view if it's anywhere except a back wall.

If it goes on either the north or south walls, then it blocks the sight-line from the dining room, creating these "dead" spaces behind them - long sections of counter space blocked from view - and it makes the space seems smaller. If you're trying to create an impression of spaciousness - which we're always trying to do with rental units - you want to leave things as opened up as possible.

But with the sink already on the back wall of the U, the fridge does pretty much have to go on the north or south walls. So I'm looking for design tricks that make it "seem" like the fridge isn't actually blocking the view of anything.

Really I'm grasping for the magic bullet that allows me to avoid doing the inevitable. Or ways to circumvent the laws of physics.


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## Miss Brown (Mar 30, 2011)

> Well, I have the great luxury of sort of being the client.


Well in that case, that will be 1,200. :thumbup:

Can you scoot the doorway over? No, thought not.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

KAP said:


> ... the obvious design choice to me would be the north wall in a Refrigerator Cab (better to look at the side of a cab, than the side of a frig or behind it). The reason is when you walk into a room, your eyes track to the farthest distance. If you place the Frig on the South wall, you now have two vertical dimensions to visually absorb when you walk into the room and considering the window location, which will not be moved, you would also be cutting off the natural light into the room. Coming into the room from the Door to the Family Room your eyes will track to the light coming from the window, which is closer to the south wall, thereby bringing the light across the room and de-emphasizing the Frig Cab and the Pillar as you walk in.


Barring the physical law circumventing magic bullet I was grasping for, this kind of layout theory is *extremely* helpful. Thanks. If it has to be on one of those wall, beter to choose the best position based on this kind of design theory.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

bob_contractor,

The other aspect to remember is based on your drawing, when walking towards the North Wall from the South, the Door Opening to the Family Room also takes a bite out of the monolithic feel of the fridge because your eyes continue into the family room. Not to mention it is offset.

The opposite is not true.. Because of where the Door to the Family Room is, when you enter the room from that door, you will be looking at not only a Pillar but a fridge directly in your line of sight.

P.S. - whenever considering placement of a Frig, you should also always try and make sure there is a counter surface next to it for loading and unloading...


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Like Andy said, you have to show dimensions,i.e from the corner to the window trim, window size, from the corner to the doorway,etc... without knowing that, its meaningless.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Another option would be to put the range in the upper right corner on a 4 degree angle and put the fridge across from the family room door. If you block out the angle behind the range you can still do a storage alcove above it. Corners are usually a waste but this way it would become active surface.

I personally like the fridge within two steps of the sink.


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## CSinMa (Mar 4, 2012)

as a cabinet designer/maker, I would place the DW on the left side of sink (to close to oven if both doors are down) and I gotta say "I'm not feeling good about the location of the ref".


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Anyone ever seen a fridge installed in a corner?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

bob_cntrctr said:


> Anyone ever seen a fridge installed in a corner?


In rental properties :laughing:


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Since bob_contractor didn't provide the dimensions, I took about 20-30 minutes and laid out the room using best guesstimate on scale from what was provided by OP in a U & L-shape (see below). Considering where the pillar is located, it seemed to call for a clipped corner so you did not have to walk around it. although the clipped cab & shelf are not necessary, it is better to look at that the side of the cabs from the Dining Room. 

Being that this is for a rental, I would go with the one on the right, as there is less investment involved, yet still provides plenty of counter and storage space, negates the monolithic feel of the frig as an issue as well as follows the stove to sink to dishwasher to frig flow, and puts the dishwasher between the two areas which use it the most as well as keeps the doors from surrounding appliances from crowding. The island is there as an added "extra" but not a necessity. Also leaves plenty of room on the family room wall for a phone station...

For rentals, you are better off focusing on the "wow" factor... D/W, microhood, island, garbage, cutlery dividers, drawer bank with replaceable parts for future maintenance... IOW, things they would LIKE to have... makes for better long-term rental. I would also recommend glass cab doors for the Upper Corner Cabs... opens it up visually especially when near a window... 

Being a rental, my guess is they will use Stock or Semi-Stock cabs, so the designs were based off 3" increments... Of course, this would have been alot easier with the actual measurements...

Just some thoughts...


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

KAP, all I can say is, wow. Above and beyond the call of duty. Really appreciate the time and effort.

As I posted above: "...I don't want to drag anyone into actually designing this layout for me ... I'm trying to focus on the specific aspect of ... fridge placement."

But your sketches are much appreciated.

Yes, the first one is pretty much the standard that immediately comes to mind - but, suffers from, as you put it "monolithic feel of the frig as an issue".

The second idea - putting the fridge back in the corner directly addresses this issue, but at the cost of 5 feet of counter space.

Which leads to an idea - maybe I take that optional island and turn it into a penisnula stuck to the wall at the family room door. It preserves counter and under cabinet space without blocking any sight lines. I couls see it being functional too - a place to sit things on their way into the family room...


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

bob_cntrctr said:


> KAP, all I can say is, wow. Above and beyond the call of duty. Really appreciate the time and effort.
> 
> As I posted above: "...I don't want to drag anyone into actually designing this layout for me ... I'm trying to focus on the specific aspect of ... fridge placement."
> 
> ...


I'd rather do that than watch TV... :laughing:

The penninsula would be a hindrance to the room and break up the flow as well as create a corridor effect. You have to walk around it to get to the frig...

This is for a rental... how much counter space do you think they need? The one on the right, has 17' of useable counter space, and if you add the island, 20'... not to mention 3 sections (4 if island)... if it is a high-end rental, stagger the heights...

BTW, with the island, it provides a load-set area...


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

KAP deserves a thumbs up for his effort and time spent to help a stranger but fellow human being as well as fellow contractor. Bob I don't mind either helping out. I use 20/20 which is of course the premier kitchen design software. If you wish to provide some of the items everyone is requesting I would also be happy to offer my generous assistance. I can also give you full 3D drawings to your email. I enjoy doing it. 

Just scribble out where you would like the major items. The fridge in the corner is just fine and in fact preferred. Give me your budget too but I can only draw it in Merillat, Quality, Kraftmaid or Kitchen Kompact as that is what's in my 20/20 catalogs because that's what I carry. The codes or nomenclatures can be easily cross referenced to any brand for your convenience.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

bob_cntrctr said:


> Which leads to an idea - maybe I take that optional island and turn it into a penisnula stuck to the wall at the family room door. It preserves counter and under cabinet space without blocking any sight lines. I couls see it being functional too - a place to sit things on their way into the family room...


The peninsula would totally eff up the flow and end up being a dumping ground for mail and other crap. My $.02, of course.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

EthanB said:


> The peninsula would totally eff up the flow and end up being a dumping ground for mail and other crap. My $.02, of course.



I disagree...it would fit in perfectly with a everyday working family...:thumbsup:

Peninsula gives kids & everyone else a place to put daily stufff...:thumbup:

Sometimes you just need some clutter to live...:laughing::whistling:thumbsup:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

griz said:


> I disagree...it would fit in perfectly with a everyday working family...:thumbsup:
> 
> Peninsula gives kids & everyone else a place to put daily stufff...:thumbup:
> 
> Sometimes you just need some clutter to live...:laughing::whistling:thumbsup:


Just not as much on shows like Hoarders :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> Just not as much on shows like Hoarders :laughing:


Early morning or late night?


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

bob_cntrctr said:


> KAP, all I can say is, wow. Above and beyond the call of duty. Really appreciate the time and effort.
> 
> As I posted above: "...I don't want to drag anyone into actually designing this layout for me ... I'm trying to focus on the specific aspect of ... fridge placement."
> 
> ...


Bob,
If you put Ref in the corner, make sure to use a filler so you don't have a problem with the door.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Jimmy Cabinet said:


> ...I would also be happy to offer my generous assistance. I can also give you full 3D drawings to your email. I enjoy doing it...


A really kind offer, thanks - but I think I'm going to stop at this point. I just wanted to see if there were any new and great layout ideas for making fridges less intrusive. Didn't mean to drag people into designing for me.

Thanks again.

And thanks all for your time.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

greg24k said:


> Bob,
> If you put Ref in the corner, make sure to use a filler so you don't have a problem with the door.


That's a good point Greg... I assumed he was doing face-frame and not frameless... but it also comes down to which frig he buys...


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

bob_cntrctr said:


> I just wanted to see if there were any new and great layout ideas for making fridges less intrusive. Didn't mean to drag people into designing for me.


When you start discussing layout idea's it's inevitable that the whole design comes into play... 

Best of luck... 8^)


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

bob_cntrctr said:


> A really kind offer, thanks - but I think I'm going to stop at this point. I just wanted to see if there were any new and great layout ideas for making fridges less intrusive. Didn't mean to drag people into designing for me.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> And thanks all for your time.


Has anyone mentioned fridge drawers yet?


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Gus Dering said:


> Has anyone mentioned fridge drawers yet?


No... but that's a mighty expensive proposition for a rental...


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

KAP said:


> No... but that's a mighty expensive proposition for a rental...


 I'm aware of that. But its the only idea I have that has not been shot down already.:laughing:


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