# Dishwasher install question for the plumbers



## not2late (Mar 31, 2005)

I remodel kitchens and in the course of this I sometimes end up installing the customers dishwasher. 

Here's the question; All the new model D/W's-except for the diswasher drawers-have the drain hose in a high loop mounted on the side of the outer shell of the tub. Do I still need a high loop under the sink (that's how I do it)? Or is it not needed? 

Just looking for the right way to do this. 

Thanks


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Read the directions...I do it anyway, becuase it is usually easier to just cut a notch in the top of a cabinet then to drill a hole.


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## XanadooLTD (Oct 6, 2007)

Doesn't matter, i would still do high loop under sink also. Keep smells down and garbage flowing.


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## ragstoriches (Mar 13, 2008)

*jack legs*



XanadooLTD said:


> Doesn't matter, i would still do high loop under sink also. Keep smells down and garbage flowing.


why not stop guessing and call a plumber for the plumbing before you kill someone or continue ruining the market for us all you jack of all trades are getting the customers used to sub standard work and now dont understand why the plumbers charges so much when some jackleg can do it


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## ragstoriches (Mar 13, 2008)

XanadooLTD said:


> Doesn't matter, i would still do high loop under sink also. Keep smells down and garbage flowing.


and for xanadoolittle you are double trapping a fixture that will cause a syphon and clear the trap of water therefore killing the trap seal


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

Hey Rags, 

Easy on the name calling, eh? Some of us Remodeler "jacklegs" do a better job than some of you specialists... The dude isnt asking how to rough in an entire house, it's a simple drain line for a dishwasher... 

At least he's here asking how to do it properly... The real hacks would just throw it together and change their phone number when the customer starts complaining.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*No license & charging for unlicensed work = real hack.*
*Picking a fight with plumbers in a professional plumbing forum over doing unlicensed work = brilliant.*
*DW compression ftg leaks and slowly ruins ceiling below...nasty trouble when ins co asks for the plumbers insurance.*

*Buyer beware.*


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## masterk (Dec 29, 2007)

Well Put Grumpy.
They Just Don't Seem To Understand That.
I Have Never Went To A Customers Home That Wanted To Install A New Kitchen And Offered To Be The Gc.


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## not2late (Mar 31, 2005)

Sorry guys, it seems I stepped on some toes here. 

Just to explain further. I never touch any plumbing inside of a wall. Moving drains, vents, supply, gas whatever. If plumbing needs to be done in a wall a licensed plumber does it. 

Did a cabinet tearout one time and while disconnecting the old sink the galvanized drain elbow disentegrated in the block wall. A licensed plumber fixed it. Not me. 

I had a licensed plumber repair my incoming copper water line where it had broken in the poured wall of my house in Denver. And no, I did not complain about the price. He was worth every dollar. I know my limits and that was digging the 4' deep hole for him.

I work in Arizona. Have never done a kitchen here with a room below it. All my work is on slabs. 

In my liability insurance I have a rider for appliance installs. Its extra and its worth it. Knock on wood I have not had to make a claim on it. 

I'm not a GC. Don't want the hassles. Just trying to make sure that everything I do is right. For the homeowner and myself.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*No hostility intended, but you're not paying a plumber for work that you're charging someone to do, then asking other plumbers advice on how to do it.*

*I just got off the phone with a landlord who refuses to pay my price, tells me an hour is too much time to charge and feels my price is too high...it's a 45 minute drive just to get there, gas is $4 a gallon and climbing.*
*I have a mental image of him getting "helpful" advice from some nice guy online who's a thousand miles away.*
*His business is profitable, yet he expects mine to be charitable.*

*Your business is also profitable, why would we offer advice to you so you can avoid paying one of us in the name of profit?*

*It's "just" a dishwasher...sure.*
*You do kitchens (baths?) for a living...how many dishwashers, basins, faucets, disposals & drains are you installing every year without license/insurance, yet charging it in your price?*

*I'm guessing the reason the DIY site was set up was so those of us who are professionals wouldn't have to get into nasty debates on semantics.*

*This is the link for that site...my guess is you'd have better luck there.*
DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *I'm guessing the reason the DIY site was set up was so those of us who are professionals wouldn't have to get into nasty debates on semantics.*
> 
> *This is the link for that site...my guess is you'd have better luck there.*
> DIY Chatroom - DIY Home Improvement Forum


:laughing: I won't let that happen. :laughing:

To not2late,

Code will tell you what you need, here it is required to hang the hose, failure to do so, fails the inspection.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> :laughing: I won't let that happen. :laughing:
> 
> To not2late,
> 
> Code will tell you what you need, here it is required to hang the hose, failure to do so, fails the inspection.


*If memory serves, HO's can do their own work in your state as long as they pull permits.*
*Dunno 'bout AZ, too lazy to look, but I don't think he has permits pulled.*


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *If memory serves, HO's can do their own work in your state as long as they pull permits.*
> *Dunno 'bout AZ, too lazy to look, but I don't think he has permits pulled.*


Yes HO are allowed to do their own work here, they allow appliance installers the set the DW, but they are not allow to make the plumbing connections, thou some do, but enforcing the code is always a problem, all we can do is let HO know if there is a leak and and if was caused by a no licensed plumber they could be SOL.


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## MAD Renovations (Nov 18, 2007)




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## not2late (Mar 31, 2005)

Not trying to beat a dead horse. And sorry for changing the threads direction.

Say as a licensed plumber you get a call to go install a new dishwasher. Do you take a licensed electrician along to make the electrical connection? How about putting the cord on a new garbage disposal? If you do use a licensed electrician and add your own charges plus the electricians what would this end up costing a homeowner?

These are legitimate questions and I'm not being a smart guy. But if I had to guess I would say that the majority of you plumbers would make these simple electrical connections yourself. Be honest here. And if you do wouldn't you be in violation of working outside of the scope of your license?


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

not2late said:


> Not trying to beat a dead horse. And sorry for changing the threads direction.
> 
> Say as a licensed plumber you get a call to go install a new dishwasher. Do you take a licensed electrician along to make the electrical connection? How about putting the cord on a new garbage disposal? If you do use a licensed electrician and add your own charges plus the electricians what would this end up costing a homeowner?
> 
> These are legitimate questions and I'm not being a smart guy. But if I had to guess I would say that the majority of you plumbers would make these simple electrical connections yourself. Be honest here. And if you do wouldn't you be in violation of working outside of the scope of your license?


*They are legitimate questions...*
*Kill the circuit and reconnect new DW's & disposals are fine without a permit.*
*To run new electrical for one from the service requires an electrician...I have my electrician on speed dial.*
*I have him do boiler circuits/CO dectors, ALL new electrical...anything code won't allow...and I try like crazy to sneak in the low voltage 24v boiler stuff too...I hate wiring, he hates me for that...in a lucrative kinda way.*

*I'm still guessing you don't pull permits.*


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Just want to point out one thing, I guarantee the guys that do appliance installs for Sears and Best Buy are not licensed to do anything but maybe drive.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

If new or remodel knowing there is electrical work getting done, I always tell HO to let Electrician do connections, on repair/service work, I do the connections.


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## not2late (Mar 31, 2005)

I'm a sub. 90% of my jobs are cabinet replacement in the same place. Different finish, heights etc. Walls aren't opened, just new paint. If there is new sink placement, range, electrical upgrade- all this is done with licensed plumbers and electricians. As I said earlier-I'm not a GC- Any permits are pulled by HO or electricians and plumbers.

And I understand that you don't need a permit to replace these appliances. 
My question though is doesn't that put you at a liability risk making these electrical connections? I'm just talking the cords for the D/W and garbage disposal-not the more serious work of pulling new circuits.

Those electricians earn their money in those blistering hot attics out here. They deserve all the money they can get.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

When we replace electic water heater we disconnect and reconnect the power, even thou we are not licensed to do so, there is never a problem with the building department about this, we draw a permit for heater install, gets inspected and passes, nothing is ever said how the electric was disconnected or reconnected, it is common practice to do this task. There is risk factors involved, if it caused a electrical fire, (heaven forbid), our insurance would probably laugh at us and say it is you ticket, cover it, it's a chance we take. Remember this is something we encounter almost everyday, where as for you, you don't encounter it that often. So you have to ask yourself that one question, do you want the liability?

When I enter a home and it's a dishwasher, I will always ask who makes the electrical connection, if asked will I do it, I say I can but I'm not an electrician, most of the time the HO will tell me he can do it and that relieves me of the liability.


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