# Duramax or Cummins?



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Michaeljp86 said:


> Thats what I like about my cummins, its very easy on fuel if I stay off the highway. The downside is everything on the truck is cheaply built like the transmission cooler lines as thick as a pop can. And it will knock your teeth out if you hit a pot hole.


Ride much better than a leaf sprung solid front axle. 

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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

BattleBornNV said:


> Mine was the tranny. But that was completely my doing. I put it in the shop with 35 miles on it and had my performance guy start on the motor. The tranny took a beating. Ended up turning the underside of my truck into a salvage yard at a stop light brake boosting to race a new GTO. $6500 got me a suncoast and a billet torque converter.
> That truck put 930hp/1450ftlbs to the tires. If there was another weak link, I’m sure I would have found it. Maybe I got rid of the weak stuff early and saved the life of parts down the line?
> 
> Add:
> ...


Yeah, I definitely don't drive like that. :laughing: I'm an gear-jammer from before, so I ride easy. :thumbsup:



Delta


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Ride much better than a leaf sprung solid front axle.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


That's another thing that pisses me off. :wallbash: No one will put leaf springs up front anymore.  If folk can't handle driving a truck, then they shouldn't buy one. 




Delta


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> That's another thing that pisses me off. :wallbash: No one will put leaf springs up front anymore.  If folk can't handle driving a truck, then they shouldn't buy one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's like driving a hay wagon. Lol

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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's like driving a hay wagon. Lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


with steel wheels


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Off topic a bit, but I just saw a Titan XD with cummins diesel. I hate foreign trucks but this truck looks sweet, and a new king cab with the diesel looks to be well priced compared to the domestics.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Pearce Services said:


> Off topic a bit, but I just saw a Titan XD with cummins diesel. I hate foreign trucks but this truck looks sweet, and a new king cab with the diesel looks to be well priced compared to the domestics.


If I was to buy a new truck I would do like most guys and get a gas engine just because the the extra cost and all that emissions crap.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Pearce Services said:


> Off topic a bit, but I just saw a Titan XD with cummins diesel. I hate foreign trucks but this truck looks sweet, and a new king cab with the diesel looks to be well priced compared to the domestics.


They have been getting horrible reviews. 

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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Michaeljp86 said:


> If I was to buy a new truck I would do like most guys and get a gas engine just because the the extra cost and all that emissions crap.


Good friend just got a new 17 f350 CC 4x4 long bed, xlt, set up for gooseneck, 6.7 psd, 125k mile warranty, under 50k out the door. 

3.55 gears, getting 25mpg on the highway, 18 towing. 

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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Pearce Services said:


> Off topic a bit, but I just saw a Titan XD with cummins diesel. I hate foreign trucks but this truck looks sweet, and a new king cab with the diesel looks to be well priced compared to the domestics.


One of the things that makes the Cummins diesel so good, is the fact that it is an in-line 6. The Titan is running a V8. Doesn't have the balance of an I-6.



Delta


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

BattleBornNV said:


> I just traded in a ‘14 RAM 2500 with the 68RFE tranny at 104k miles. Turbo blew apart at 98k, covered by Cummins thankfully, then water pump supernova’d @ 101k. Tranny started slipping pulling my toy hauler at around 60k.
> The emissions system was to blame for the turbo. They said I didn’t use it “hard” enough. Guess I should have just kept the 5th wheel hooked up to it full time. Whatever.
> So now I have a ‘17 RAM 3500 with the AISIN tranny. It’s a MONSTER. I bought the super warranty and as soon as its expired the entire emissions system is getting deleted.
> Every diesel specialist I know has all but guaranteed 500k out of this truck once that is gone.
> ...


68RFE sucks, If I could turn back the clock I'd pay a little more for the Aisin.



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> That's another thing that pisses me off. :wallbash: No one will put leaf springs up front anymore.  If folk can't handle driving a truck, then they shouldn't buy one.
> Delta


Leaf springs don't perform better than coils, take a newer dodge with a coil sprung front and rear 5 link, they ride freaking beautifully. Heck, train cars use coil springs.



Pearce Services said:


> Off topic a bit, but I just saw a Titan XD with cummins diesel. I hate foreign trucks but this truck looks sweet, and a new king cab with the diesel looks to be well priced compared to the domestics.


I was really close to buying one until I read the reviews...and saw the price.



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> One of the things that makes the Cummins diesel so good, is the fact that it is an in-line 6. The Titan is running a V8. Doesn't have the balance of an I-6.
> 
> 
> Delta


Agreed, but the Nissan is a V8 Cummins, which apparently was made because the american market loves V8s.


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## Trimalot (Jul 18, 2015)

I have a 16 3500 ram and a 17 f350 both diesel The Cummins are great motors but the rest of the components on the truck are crap however I bought the ram simply because it was 10,000 cheaper then the ford and it would only be used as a work truck, if I had to do it over again I would of payed the extra and bought another ford, from what I've experienced there quality is superior to ram Chevy or GM, I'm not a brand loyal I've owed all 4 in 1 ton diesel platform


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

The coil springs allow for a much better turning radius. At least Ford and Dodge still have solid front axles. 

My 2500 Ram, is fully sissified with coils front and rear.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> One of the things that makes the Cummins diesel so good, is the fact that it is an in-line 6. The Titan is running a V8. Doesn't have the balance of an I-6.
> 
> 
> 
> Delta


Not to mention one head gasket, 6 injectors, all up to not on the side. 



Trimalot said:


> I have a 16 3500 ram and a 17 f350 both diesel The Cummins are great motors but the rest of the components on the truck are crap however I bought the ram simply because it was 10,000 cheaper then the ford and it would only be used as a work truck, if I had to do it over again I would of payed the extra and bought another ford, from what I've experienced there quality is superior to ram Chevy or GM, I'm not a brand loyal I've owed all 4 in 1 ton diesel platform


Im not a big fan of the ford because of the placement of the engine. Half of its up under the firewall where you cant get on anything and have to pull the cab. In the 90s GM had better quality then ford. A good friends a big ford guy. Has 9 trucks and you the frame flexes to much and if you park on a hump or put weight in the bed the doors may not latch. 

One thing I like about the cummins is you can still do a conversion to a bosch p pump and eliminate the electronics on the engine.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Popped the hood on anything lately? 

Engines are stuffed in there to have more cab room. That's what people want, that's what they give them. 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Popped the hood on anything lately?
> 
> Engines are stuffed in there to have more cab room. That's what people want, that's what they give them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Yeah the 6.7 Cummins is tight but nothing like the V8s.

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I gotta hand it to the Cummins....the remote start worked in -32 when I didn't plug it in.

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## Trimalot (Jul 18, 2015)

Inner10 said:


> I gotta hand it to the Cummins....the remote start worked in -32 when I didn't plug it in.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



That's pretty impressive, how much of a delay is it from the time you hit the button until in actually starts, I have remote start on my Ford and when it gets in the teens or below it has about a 10 sec delay from the time you hit the button to the time it starts, with the grid heaters in the rams I would think it would take a little longer I'm just curious because l I've kicked around the idea of having the dealer put remote start on my Ram


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## 51carpenter (Jul 4, 2016)

Cummins! I like the older, I drive an 02 and I miss my 96. The duramax are good if you only tow down the highway, that Allison tranny won't hold you back with a load if you're in the mountains trying to stay under 25mph or even slower. But on the highway it's great.

I got a 6 spd plus the jake break, it'll hold back a lot of weight, which is important to me when because a lot of jobs are off the beaten path. 

Mostly I drive a 1/2 ton chevy, only drive the diesel when pulling trailers. 


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Trimalot said:


> That's pretty impressive, how much of a delay is it from the time you hit the button until in actually starts, I have remote start on my Ford and when it gets in the teens or below it has about a 10 sec delay from the time you hit the button to the time it starts, with the grid heaters in the rams I would think it would take a little longer I'm just curious because l I've kicked around the idea of having the dealer put remote start on my Ram


Depends how cold, at -30 it's probably 15-20 seconds. If you plug it in its about 3 seconds. When you turn the key it comes up with a gauge that counts down as it says "preheat in progress".

It also has an electric heater in the air intake that cycles on and off when it's stupid cold. 

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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Pit in your bid on this baby.:thumbsup:

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1965-CHEVROLET-K20-PICKUP-212546

You don't actually need diesel do you??


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## BattleBornNV (Jul 27, 2017)

Trimalot said:


> That's pretty impressive, how much of a delay is it from the time you hit the button until in actually starts, I have remote start on my Ford and when it gets in the teens or below it has about a 10 sec delay from the time you hit the button to the time it starts, with the grid heaters in the rams I would think it would take a little longer I'm just curious because l I've kicked around the idea of having the dealer put remote start on my Ram




I usually start mine with my phone instead of the fob. It’s been single digits here for a few weeks and it’s about a 10-15 second delay during pre heat. Not plugged in. 


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Powerstroke


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

TimNJ said:


> Pit in your bid on this baby.:thumbsup:
> 
> https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1965-CHEVROLET-K20-PICKUP-212546
> 
> You don't actually need diesel do you??


no room for the wife and kids


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Michaeljp86 said:


> no room for the wife and kids


The bed is open...

Tom


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

tjbnwi said:


> The bed is open...
> 
> Tom


Ive already got 2 trucks like that and there is always to much stuff back there and no room for them :laughing:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Michaeljp86 said:


> Ive already got 2 trucks like that and there is always to much stuff back there and no room for them :laughing:


Seeing as you have two already, this one will be a perfect family vehicle.

Tom


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Powerstroke


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Michaeljp86 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Avl4w_orws


God forbid you need a specialty tool..is this the best you have?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

A&E Exteriors said:


> God forbid you meed a specialty tool..is this the best you have?


Yet, he designed and patented a tool...

Not sure which tools he's referring to, I can think of only one specialized tool I need on my truck. 

Tom


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tjbnwi said:


> Yet, he designed and patented a tool...
> 
> Not sure which tools he's referring to, I can think of only one specialized tool I need on my truck.
> 
> Tom


Injector cup removal?

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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

A&E Exteriors said:


> God forbid you need a specialty tool..is this the best you have?


There was a lot more to that video then just that. Watch it again and pay attention. Its the way they are designed that I dont like. Like needing to pull the entire cab off for certain things. I like working on my own truck so not liking how things are designed is a big thing. I like my GMCs, the dodge I dont like either but I wanted that engine. 

He talked about the bearing on the driveshaft and how GM you just slide it apart and slide a new $30 bearing on. Where ford welds the shaft together so you have to spend $500+ on a whole drive shaft. I had mine go bad on my GMC and had i changed out in 20 minutes and never changed one in my life before. 

One of my best friends will probably have a ford gravestone. He loves them and its all he will drive. Hes always working on them yet will call everything else junk in the world. Thats his opinion, I dont see it that way. So far Ive liked GM the best. Thats my opinion, owning a dodge didnt change that.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I agree that Ford's are more difficult to work on, this from owning GMs and Ford's from the 70's up. Trucks only. Although my wife's 08 Impala is a ***** to work on. 


I agree having to take a cab off is dumb, but it is quicker than trying to do it from the engine bay. Buddy has it down to about 4 hours R&R on the cab. 

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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Take the cab off and bam, your engine is on its own stand. Lot of stuff yo can get away with jacking it up a couple inches


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Trimalot said:


> That's pretty impressive, how much of a delay is it from the time you hit the button until in actually starts, I have remote start on my Ford and when it gets in the teens or below it has about a 10 sec delay from the time you hit the button to the time it starts, with the grid heaters in the rams I would think it would take a little longer I'm just curious because l I've kicked around the idea of having the dealer put remote start on my Ram


Tried it this morning -10F and it took about 20 seconds.


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## Trimalot (Jul 18, 2015)

Inner10 said:


> Tried it this morning -10F and it took about 20 seconds.



Its averaging about 10f here in southern Indiana right now and every morning for the past week the service exhaust system message comes on and then goes back off within 5 min when it warms up and now the engine light came on for low exhaust gas pressure it's going to the dealer on Monday glad your not having any trouble with yours, this thing is starting to give me flashbacks of a 07.5 duramax I had with the first generation of emissions equipment never could get it to run great once it started having problems


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It doesn't have the power of a new one, but not having any emissions on the old 7.3 is great. 

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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It doesn't have the power of a new one, but not having any emissions on the old 7.3 is great.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Ive got a 6.5L turbo diesel with a mechanical injection pump 4in straight pipe and a p pump cummins with a 4in straight pipe. No electronics :thumbsup:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

DAMN IT!!!!!!!

Get home from trip to visit "my girls". Notice oil leak under front of truck----oil cooler seals.

Now to decided whether to replace the system or just the o-rings. 

Damn-it...

Tom


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

cummins is a great engine, but that means you gotta buy a dodge.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

The new diesels just aren't worth it. I could have got the same truck I have but the v8 cummins and it has less payload but more towing. The fact it's slower, same size, runs colder, needs DEF additive, only adds about 1 mpg highway and 2 city, has more expensive parts, fuel, and nonsense emission controls... It's a no brainer. There is no upside in most of them.

The emissions has made the beauty of "fuel, plus air, plus compression = explosion" into some nightmare of events that have to happen. They were simple, they were beautiful, they were fun to wrench on... Now it's a mess. I still miss my 6spd '06 Cummins dually. Can't complain though, I don't need that much truck.

If for any reason I buy another diesel it will be an '06 or earlier before the nonsense started.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

I'm not a fan of diesels in general as they are wimpy when it comes to cold starting and IMO it dont matter what brand name you buy. You can get just as much pulling power out of a gas engine. I had a Chevy pickem-up with a 454 Vortec engine and that sucker could pull and haul anything with ease. 

Plus I hate the smell of burning diesel and the clackety engine noise as well. Repairs? Have a seperate credit card to pay for all the chit that goes wrong.. as none of it is cheap.

Diesels are for big hauling rigs and I never understood why they were introduced to "little trucks." 

GM/Chevy is King.IMHO.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I've been giving this a lot if thought lately. My 7.3 is paid for, so it will probably need replacing eventually.

I'll probably go gas 1 ton next time around. I love the 454, not sure what the big gas engine is now. Besides, everyone wants a diesel, so prices are lower.

I definetly won't go Ford diesel next time. Anything I can afford is in that timeframe of crap engines and emmision deletes. I just want it to run. Even my 7.3 had a bunch come work done just after I bought it. It's been reliable since, but on my gassers, I just run them.

Ford or Chevy, not sure. I've had mostly Chevy gassers.

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Deckhead said:


> The new diesels just aren't worth it. I could have got the same truck I have but the v8 cummins and it has less payload but more towing. The fact it's slower, same size, runs colder, needs DEF additive, only adds about 1 mpg highway and 2 city, has more expensive parts, fuel, and nonsense emission controls... It's a no brainer. There is no upside in most of them.
> 
> The emissions has made the beauty of "fuel, plus air, plus compression = explosion" into some nightmare of events that have to happen. They were simple, they were beautiful, they were fun to wrench on... Now it's a mess. I still miss my 6spd '06 Cummins dually. Can't complain though, I don't need that much truck.
> 
> If for any reason I buy another diesel it will be an '06 or earlier before the nonsense started.


Diesels trucks cost thousands of dollar more, gasoline trucks cost you your man card.

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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Diesels trucks cost thousands of dollar more, gasoline trucks cost you your man card.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Don't need a truck to be a man. 

Anyone who does, wasn't one to begin with, and still isn't with a truck.



Delta


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Diesels trucks cost thousands of dollar more, gasoline trucks cost you your man card.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Dude c'mon lets be honest here. I went from grinding out 12 hr days in unbareable humidity, cutting things and drinking black lumberyard coffee to mostly 8 hr days typing on a computer, drinking mochas and dropping the kids off at school.

I lost my man card a year ago:laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Deckhead said:


> Dude c'mon lets be honest here. I went from grinding out 12 hr days in unbareable humidity, cutting things and drinking black lumberyard coffee to mostly 8 hr days typing on a computer, drinking mochas and dropping the kids off at school.
> 
> I lost my man card a year ago:laughing:


I envy you.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

If you are going to keep until the frame rots an HD truck with a gasser is ok.
But if you plan on selling after 6 or 7 years the diesel will bring in a ton more on resale.

My '09 Chevy if it was a Duramax would be worth about $11,000 more.


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## BattleBornNV (Jul 27, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> If you are going to keep until the frame rots an HD truck with a gasser is ok.
> 
> But if you plan on selling after 6 or 7 years the diesel will bring in a ton more on resale.
> 
> ...




The biggest gut check is the initial purchase. If you can buy and have equity, that will carry for the next few trucks. 
I got sick buying my ‘06 brand new for $50k.
Traded it in on my brand new ‘14 that was $66k, got $20k for the ‘06 w/165k miles on it. Net $46k
Traded the ‘14 w/104k miles for the brand new ‘17 that was $78k, got $28k for the ‘14.
Net $50k
Math works out.....Loaded ‘17 for $50k before negotiation. Ended up financing $43k. Net -$3k
Still own my 97 1 ton V-10 RAM manual. Has 245k miles on it (second motor, lost first at 48k under warranty) it has rails in it for 5th wheel hitch and can pull my toyhauler just as easy as this Cummins. At 4mpg.  vs 12-13


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

What you put out for the diesel in extra cost at purchase you end up getting back at resale.
So, there wasn't really an extra cost.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

BattleBornNV said:


> The biggest gut check is the initial purchase. If you can buy and have equity, that will carry for the next few trucks.
> I got sick buying my ‘06 brand new for $50k.
> Traded it in on my brand new ‘14 that was $66k, got $20k for the ‘06 w/165k miles on it. Net $46k
> Traded the ‘14 w/104k miles for the brand new ‘17 that was $78k, got $28k for the ‘14.
> ...


Looks like $1100 a month for the last 11 years.

Net 50k+46k+50k=$146k / 132 months.


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## BattleBornNV (Jul 27, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> What you put out for the diesel in extra cost at purchase you end up getting back at resale.
> 
> So, there wasn't really an extra cost.




Exactly. 


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## BattleBornNV (Jul 27, 2017)

Golden view said:


> Looks like $1100 a month for the last 11 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Net 50k+46k+50k=$146k / 132 months.




I wouldn’t recommend someone taking a payment that large. 
06 paid off in 5 years. 4 years no payments. 
Highest payment I’ve made personally is $691 per month, and it’s this truck I have currently. 2.6% @ 72 months. 


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Deckhead said:


> Dude c'mon lets be honest here. I went from grinding out 12 hr days in unbareable humidity, cutting things and drinking black lumberyard coffee to mostly 8 hr days typing on a computer, drinking mochas and dropping the kids off at school.
> 
> I lost my man card a year ago:laughing:


You are living the dream Rob


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

BattleBornNV said:


> I wouldn’t recommend someone taking a payment that large.
> 06 paid off in 5 years. 4 years no payments.
> Highest payment I’ve made personally is $691 per month, and it’s this truck I have currently. 2.6% @ 72 months.
> 
> ...


So with interest, it's cost you a little more than $1100 a month on average for 11 years.


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## BattleBornNV (Jul 27, 2017)

Golden view said:


> So with interest, it's cost you a little more than $1100 a month on average for 11 years.



Not exactly. You would have to divide the months once I stopped paying on the 17. You preloaded $50k on the calculation. 

06 was $678 month, 1.9% 60 month term. 
Paid off. $40,680 (put $12k down) waited until 9/13 to buy 2014 model. 

2014 was $685 month, 2.1% 72 month term. 
Paid 37 months. $25,345
Did not pay off. Traded in 12/17 for a 2017

2017 is $691 month, 2.6% 72 month term. 
Paid 1 payment of $691 so far. 

$66,716 total payments
98 total months
$680.77 average. Including interest. 


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

BattleBornNV said:


> Not exactly. You would have to divide the months once I stopped paying on the 17. You preloaded $50k on the calculation.
> 
> 06 was $678 month, 1.9% 60 month term.
> Paid off. $40,680 (put $12k down) waited until 9/13 to buy 2014 model.
> ...


That's more like it. Right, I preloaded the $50k.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Reseal kit arrives tomorrow.

Tom


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> Reseal kit arrives tomorrow.
> 
> Tom


I remember when I worked on vehicles.




I don't miss those days.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> I remember when I worked on vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Easy peezy----nothing to it.

No special tools were required to work on my Excursion.

Tom


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Im debating what to do with my cummins. The p pump 12v is a monster when you get on it. Its also very easy on fuel. I have a tractor with a 354 perkins that Ive been thinking about a cummins swap. Ill probably rebuild the tranny unless I can find a junk truck with a manual and convert it to a manual trans.


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