# basement framing



## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

im finishing my basment right now 2x4 framing and my buddy that is framing and drywalling says its not nessarcy to insulate the walls....10" poured walls

every basment finish ive ever done that i can rember im pretty sure they have insulated the outside walls...

what do you guys think want to do it right but dont want to spend money that i can use on other things


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

yes on insulation


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## finehomes (Feb 4, 2007)

Your buddy is nuts. Insulate for sure.


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## pbranam (Jan 7, 2008)

insulation is a must R-13


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

yes, insulate but correct me if I am wrong, you have to leave an air gap between the wall and insulation to avoid condensation, is that correct?


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

USP45 said:


> yes, insulate but correct me if I am wrong, you have to leave an air gap between the wall and insulation to avoid condensation, is that correct?


yessir:thumbsup:


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

Yes insulate with an inch air gap between the wall and studs. It's cold up there.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Thats what I thought. Even here in VA I keep an air flow behind it just to help keep it dry and avoid mold.


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

thats kinda what i thought just didnt want to second guess him.....i will tell him that my old lady insisted that we insulate that will save me from looking like i dont trust his judgement......thanks


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

is visqueen needed first.....i see so many different ways of doing things im not sure what is right


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

from what I gather you can have the concrete spray foamed, or use plastic on the back of the studs to hold the insulation off the walls.


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

USP45 said:


> from what I gather you can have the concrete spray foamed, or use plastic on the back of the studs to hold the insulation off the walls.


I always just loosely shoot on 15lb felt. It still allows air to get to the concrete through the overlaps and holds back the insulation. Poly on both sides of the studs isn't good. It actually traps condensation between the 2 layers and soaks the insulation.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

I was referring to plastic on just the studs backside. (Not mine:laughing


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## finehomes (Feb 4, 2007)

Here in utah we put the insulation in and then a plastic vapor barrier. Pretty dry climate here though. Probably should check and see the proper way to do it in your area.


Sam


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

Actually vapour barrier is to protect the insulation from moisture from within the house.

Sh_t! I forgot to do the quote thing again.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

OCRS said:


> Actually vapour barrier is to protect the insulation from moisture from within the house.
> 
> Sh_t! I forgot to do the quote thing again.



Man, how many times must I say it. 
GREEN BUTTON!
*G* for get the green button
*R* for remember the green button
*E* for enough about forgetting the green button
*E* for engage the green button
*N* for never forget the green button

*B* for button that is green
*U* for u should click the green button
*T* for time to remember the green button
*T* for to click the green button
*O* for Oh my goodness! lets not forget the green button
*N *for never forget the green button

get it, got it, good:laughing:


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Its mandatory IRC N1102.1.5 Basement Walls.

Habitable space within a basement shall be insulated in accordance with Table N1102.1. When insulating basement walls, the required R-value shall be applied from the top of the basement wall to a depth of 10 feet below grade or to the top of the basement floor, whichever is less.




rex said:


> im finishing my basment right now 2x4 framing and my buddy that is framing and drywalling says its not nessarcy to insulate the walls....10" poured walls
> 
> every basment finish ive ever done that i can rember im pretty sure they have insulated the outside walls...
> 
> what do you guys think want to do it right but dont want to spend money that i can use on other things


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

USP45 said:


> Man, how many times must I say it.
> GREEN BUTTON!
> *G* for get the green button
> *R* for remember the green button
> ...


I was waiting for that:laughing:.


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

just a suggestion: since a vapor barrier is a good idea but (imo) a vapor barrier against either side of the studs is not, glue t&g polystyrene to the foundation walls which serves as the vapor barrier, then leave an airspace to the studs and then insulate w/ R13 batts. Just my .02


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

OCRS said:


> I was waiting for that:laughing:.


bet you wont forget anymore huh



orson said:


> just a suggestion: since a vapor barrier is a good idea but (imo) a vapor barrier against either side of the studs is not, glue t&g polystyrene to the foundation walls which serves as the vapor barrier, then leave an airspace to the studs and then insulate w/ R13 batts. Just my .02


Now that sounds to me like a winner.:thumbsup:


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## pfloyd (Feb 28, 2008)

OCRS said:


> Actually vapour barrier is to protect the insulation from moisture from within the house.
> 
> Sh_t! I forgot to do the quote thing again.


 That all depends on the climate your in. Sometimes the opposite is true. Its ultimate purpose is to provide a thermal break and a surface for condensation to occur. Better moisture on plastic than wood.

But hell, they still havent figure it out perfectly yet. You look at the old houses that had NO vapour barrier and they didnt have mold. 

The problem is making things airtight and then the inevitable breach somewhere will let water in and it cant get out. Up here thousands of condos built in the 1980's and 1990's are being torn apart and redone. It wasnt moisture from the inside, I can tell you that .


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

pfloyd said:


> *That all depends on the climate* *your in*. *Sometimes the opposite is true*. Its ultimate purpose is to provide a thermal break and a surface for condensation to occur. Better moisture on plastic than wood.
> 
> But hell, they still havent figure it out perfectly yet. You look at the old houses that had NO vapour barrier and they didnt have mold.
> 
> The problem is making things airtight and then the inevitable breach somewhere will let water in and it cant get out. Up here thousands of condos built in the 1980's and 1990's are being torn apart and redone. It wasnt moisture from the inside, I can tell you that .


Just found this map.


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## pfloyd (Feb 28, 2008)

Yeah. That map nails it. Up here in the rainforest however, the old houses haven't gotten moldy, they had NO VB, they could breathe. I dont understand why it changed in the 70's for the worse.

One thing I still dont understand about vapor barrier is it should be where cold meets warm. On an exterior wall with insulation you would think that would not be on the inside of the insulation, but somewhere in the middle, right? One side of the insulation is warm, the other side is cold. The thermal break should be in the middle.

The ultimate would be two thinner batts with plastic in between.


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

Their idea of a cold climate is interesting. They aren't really addressing the reality of US middle atlantic climate: The winters get cold and the summers get hot an muggy as hell. I think I'll just stick to my own method and have an air space next to the vapor barrier. :thumbsup:


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