# Client wants to cancel (Advice needed)



## JBMagi (Jul 5, 2008)

Back story,
Signed a contract for a small-med bath remodel back in Novemeber.
Scheduled to start Production in December to try to complete by the Holidays
Client had a hard time picking out the cabinets and asked to hold off on the start date
Client got worried we wouldnt be done by xmas and asked to start
Xmas came and went with the project mostly done but midding the long lead time items like cabinets
Just after the holidays got the body of the work done minus counters and a few other finishing items
Got swamped with snowpocolipse emergencies and had to put the project on hold to handle roofs colapsing and ice damming due to the massive snow load here in CT
Back on the project but client was dragging his feet in payments required to finalize the counter and a few other items
Now all products are ready for install tomorrow and I just received a letter requesting to cancel the contract. 

I would be ok with canceling upon receipt of payment for all materials and overages incured thus far. I emailed the client letting him know this but also advising against as we are so close to completion. 

Any advice on how to proceed should he refuse payment or continuation of the contract.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Written contract?

Does the contract have a termination clause?

1 more day and done? I would do all I had to finish, set up a face to face meeting and find out why he wants to cancel with only 1 day remaining.

lots of questions before we can give you answers.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

The other day we had the same discussion here, so I will make it short and sweet. I had a contract to do the same job, I took $1,500 deposit... same situation with selecting material, wasted 3 weeks or my time and money and they didn't pick anything, then the HO canceled the job. I gave them a choice: I will keep the $1,500 deposit for my time invested and let them out of the contract...but they wanted all the money back, and they filed the complaint with the BBB, and I filed Breach of Contract lawsuit , for the whole amount the contract which was for $8,400. The BBB complaint was thrown out, because I was in the right...They hired an attorney, and I settled for additional $2,500 dollars to drop the matter. The total amount paid was $4k...

If you have a legitimate contract, you have a case, if you don't have a legitimate contract, then you get nothing and if you take this matter to court and they get a lawyer, he will take you apart piece by piece. and you end up paying them back everything they paid you.

Good luck


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Pretty late in the game to just want to cancel.
IMO, your clients are ticked off the job is taking so long.
They will never see it as their fault for any delays.
Did you give a completion date in your contract or have a clause covering emergencies/inclement weather etc?


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

> Got swamped with snowpocolipse emergencies and had to put the project on hold to handle roofs colapsing and ice damming due to the massive snow load here in CT


If you put me "on hold" I would also put you "on hold". 
WTF does this have got to do with the bathroom? 

How many roofs actually did collapse? Is this the first time in history there was snow in CT? 

Mark


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## HomeSealed (Jan 26, 2008)

I agree with Mark and Greg... My guess is that you are in a bind here because one of two things: 1. You do not have a solid written contract with this client, or 2. You do have one, but you probably breached it by taking forever to get this project completed... If I am paying for work to be done, I expect to see someone there everyday until its done, unless your contract is spelled out differently. Snow,personal problems, etc are really no excuse.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

I gave you a scenario about the contract and I had to run out. Now I read the whole thing paying more attention to the detail. 

There is no excuse for delaying the job to begin with. Average bathroom remodeling lets say 7' x 10' full bath the turn around time doing direct replacement is 10 days give or take few days.

First you must indicate approximate starting date in the contract as a clause, 1 week prior your cabinets arrive. (you should know the turn-around time which is usually 3-4 weeks, custom jobs depends where from 4-6)

Day1 Demolition and framing and floor surface prepped and ready to be rocked and tiled.
Day 2-3 Rough plumbing complete, hardibacker installed or what ever else is used.
Day 4-5 Taping and painting.(right about now, you should be getting your vanity)
Day 6-7 Tiles installed and grouted. 
Day 8-9 Vanity, trim and finished pluming is completed.
Day 10 Paint touch up and final payment.

It sounds like the time you spend there, you could have done an addition.

Just be careful and don't screw yourself, because you could be in the Breach of Contract yourself.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Gotta agree with the guys on this one. There is something more here.

Signed up a 20k roof and insulation job this morning. One thing I made clear to the lady is that her job is the ONLY job going on once we get started.

How many days of this snow problem really affected you getting to this job?


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## JBMagi (Jul 5, 2008)

First an update on the current scene. The client called back last night after my polite email. I made sure to keep the conversation headed in a professional and polite direction. 30 minutes later we are back on track for completion. 
Now just for the sake of conversation....
The snow in CT was insane this year. Particularly my area of CT. I was called in to clear a massive assisted living facility that I have done a lot of work for. They had tons of doctoral damage from the weight and obviously were additionally concerned by the fact that the residents would not be able to evacuate in an emergency. There were numerous homes around here that had significant damage both structural and from ice damming. My crew and I worked 10-14 hours a day for 3 weeks straight on these emergencies. 

I do have a contract, and I think a pretty good one. I do have clauses for arbitration, emergencies/material shortages and availability, etc.

There is no time line in the contract, nor a termination clause. 

Also I do fully agree the project was way over schedule and this is not entirely the clients fault. I originally estimated 3 weeks as it was a larger bathroom and had a number of major changes and detailed trim and tile work. 

Now with this additional info and just for the sake of conversation whay should I have done if this continued going south.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

JBMagi said:


> Back story,
> Signed a contract *for a small-med bath remodel* back in Novemeber.
> Scheduled to start Production in December to try to complete by the Holidays
> Client had a hard time picking out the cabinets and asked to hold off on the start date
> ...





JBMagi said:


> First an update on the current scene. The client called back last night after my polite email. I made sure to keep the conversation headed in a professional and polite direction. 30 minutes later we are back on track for completion.
> 
> Now just for the sake of conversation....
> The snow in CT was insane this year. Particularly my area of CT. I was called in to clear a massive assisted living facility that I have done a lot of work for. They had tons of doctoral damage from the weight and obviously were additionally concerned by the fact that the residents would not be able to evacuate in an emergency. There were numerous homes around here that had significant damage both structural and from ice damming. My crew and I worked 10-14 hours a day for 3 weeks straight on these emergencies.
> ...


Bluff Called, which was it?


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

So you could not spare a guy or two to continue the bathroom...

I am curious about your clause re: availability. Would you mind sharing?

I think you should accept any offer of cancellation. 


Mark


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## Bythenumbers (Mar 3, 2011)

Classic case of lack of understanding of contract law. Some states won't allow civil law suits under 10k, instead you go to small claims. Unless they are saying that you committed fraud, then in that case they "threatened" to sue you and you in turn settled. Every state has different laws on what your contract can and cannot contain, that is why it is best to carry plenty of insurance, the right insurance, and have an attorney look over and or write your contracts


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

The snow here was brutal. From December 26th to the end of January it totaled close to 6'. Seeing that the op is pretty close to my location, I can tell you we had a "snowpocolipse" this winter in the Northeast.


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

I would just try to get things done and get paid up. Keep it out of the courts, doesnt look like it would turn out well. If those cabnets are custom, i hope you are holding a deposit on them. If they do cancel, return cabnets is stock, if not use deposit. But if your upside down on the whole deal, just either finish or take a loss.


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## JBMagi (Jul 5, 2008)

OK for "bluff called" sorry for being a little unclear. The last post was done quick from my smartphone while waiting for a meeting. I meant on the larger end of the spectrum.


Yes i would be happy to share the clauses I mentioned. When in the office today I will look them up and post.

I was not able to spare a guy or two as I had to hire on a number of additional guys for the roofs.

Also everything looks like it is back on track. The counter is fabricated and will be installed tomorrow morning with me, the electrician, and the plumber doing the final touch ups right after.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

I am glad things worked out for you.

Mark


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

greg24k said:


> I gave you a scenario about the contract and I had to run out. Now I read the whole thing paying more attention to the detail.
> 
> There is no excuse for delaying the job to begin with. Average bathroom remodeling lets say 7' x 10' full bath the turn around time doing direct replacement is 10 days give or take few days.
> 
> ...




tiles installed and grouted same day? how many guys are on a job like this.

are you using all speed setting materials? 

where are you curing times for anything.... drywall, grout...thinset?

what water proofing methods are you using in the tub surround?

when do you seal any of that grout 

you tiled the entire tub surround and floor the same day?

you caulked all inside corners aswell?

If you are taping and painting same day, you haven't removed all the drywall prior to construction

does the old drywall need updating, is the old drywall moldy, how would you know?

is there proper insulation?

did you offer sound insulation?

vapour barrier?

does electrical need to be changed

does this include installation of tub as well

I think what you described here is very quick and does not depict accurately what a traditional bathroom remodeling entails. 

I find it hard to believe that any tile layers is doing whole bathrooms with grout and sealer same day for floor and wall.

thats one hell of a crew you must have


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

I have done 8x14 in 10 days, it just depends on the materials being used. 

Shower and floor tear out day 1.
Reset tile day 2,3,4.
Bead board on all non wet walls day 5.
weekend
Paint, grout day 6.
Trim, seal (rushed that), install fixtures and toilet day 7.
Touchup and final payment day 8.

Day 8 would technically be day 10.


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## HomeSealed (Jan 26, 2008)

Bastien1337 said:


> tiles installed and grouted same day? how many guys are on a job like this.
> 
> are you using all speed setting materials?
> 
> ...


If you actually read his post, you'd notice that allowed 2 days for each item he mentioned, not one (ie:not laying tile and grout same day,etc).... I normally don't feel the need to defend other guys, but wth is the point of your attack here? Did you expect him to offer a full detailed scope of work? I'd imagine that it was simplified for the sake of this discussion. Further, it been awhile since I've done interior remodeling, but a couple weeks doesn't seem out of line for a typical bath remodel.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Bastien1337 said:


> tiles installed and grouted same day? how many guys are on a job like this.
> 
> *I don't know what you talking about, you must read the wrong post.*
> 
> ...


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