# Automatic tool question. Need an opinion.



## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Ok, Here we go....Automatic taping tools. This question gets asked about once a week. So, I'll ask for this week. Someone else can get it next week.

I only do small jobs. A room or two. I run into a few jobs a year that are over 100 sheets. Those I hire out. It's always been a pain. Finding someone that has insurance and does quality work. Then getting them to show up when they say they will. I could go on about different issues, but it doesn't matter. I've decided we'll just do it ourselves. I've had enough.

I'm not going into the drywall business. It's not for me. I am going to buy the tools. I feel I need to, to keep the project moving at a reasonable pace. I realize subbing out is the best, for me, but it's not working out. I realize I could do 100 sheets by hand, but I'm not going to.

Here is my question. Does anyone have experience with Level5 tools? They are cheaper than all of the other brands. Usually this automatically means no, for me. In this case, I'll probably only do between 300 to 400 sheets per year. Would they hold up, for that amount.

I have read every review I could find. Reviews here. Reviews on Drywalltalk.com. Even reviews from random websites. Keep in mind, it's tough to search for Level5 drywall tools. You will get thousands of hits on Level 5 finish. 

If someone could give me a little insight, someone who has actually used them, I would appreciate it.

Right now, I'm thinking they would be similar to Ryobi tools. Plenty good for a homeowner, but not going to last for the professional, using them on a daily basis.
But, I'm not going to use them on a daily basis.

I appreciate the help. I also apologize, in advance, for disrespecting Ryobi tools. I know that will be coming. That's my opinion though.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

It sounds like you might be overthinking this decision and trying to outsmart the market. If they were getting awards, wouldn't they mention it on their site? 

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/best-automatic-taping-tool-set-3523/


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

They talk their tools up pretty good, on their website. Like they all do. I was just hoping someone has used them and would have some input.

Honestly, I think they will be fine, for the limited use I will give them.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

builditguy said:


> They talk their tools up pretty good, on their website. I was just hoping someone has used them and would have some input.
> 
> Honestly, I think they will be fine, for the limited use I will give them.


Unrelated, but I just saw a review of a popular "fair price" sawmill and the reviewer trashed it and detailed several annoyances. That review came to mind with your post.


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

builditguy said:


> They talk their tools up pretty good, on their website. Like they all do. I was just hoping someone has used them and would have some input.
> 
> Honestly, I think they will be fine, for the limited use I will give them.


What all are you planning on getting? Just corner tools and boxes or a bazooka? Did you make a list of everything you are planning on getting and compare prices between a decent brand and the level5 brand? Just remember that if level5 is harder to use and doesn't leave as good of finish as another brand it will end up costing you more in the long run since it will take you longer to use and get decent results. This is one thing I would spend a little more dough on. Even for the limited use you describe they will be paid for in one or two jobs since you are keeping all profit in house instead of subbing out the finishing. Finishing isn't fun to me so it's worth it to me to spend a few extra bucks to not have cheap tools and make the job go as fast and easy and get the best results I can.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

platinumLLC said:


> What all are you planning on getting? Just corner tools and boxes or a bazooka? Did you make a list of everything you are planning on getting and compare prices between a decent brand and the level5 brand? Just remember that if level5 is harder to use and doesn't leave as good of finish as another brand it will end up costing you more in the long run since it will take you longer to use and get decent results. This is one thing I would spend a little more dough on. Even for the limited use you describe they will be paid for in one or two jobs since you are keeping all profit in house instead of subbing out the finishing. Finishing isn't fun to me so it's worth it to me to spend a few extra bucks to not have cheap tools and make the job go as fast and easy and get the best results I can.


That is a good point. Cheap tools drive me crazy and here I am thinking about buying some.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I really like my Better Than Ever drywall tools. Cut my drywall tape time in half with the greatest time saving being the corners, both inside and outside. 

https://www.btetools.com

Planex and CT33AC makes sanding a breeze also.

One other thing, if you find yourself doing a lot of floating to blend areas get the Magic Trowel. 

Tom


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> I really like my Better Than Ever drywall tools. Cut my drywall tape time in half with the greatest time saving being the corners, both inside and outside.
> 
> https://www.btetools.com
> 
> ...


By magic trowel do you mean the squeegee thing?


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

platinumLLC said:


> What all are you planning on getting? Just corner tools and boxes or a bazooka? Did you make a list of everything you are planning on getting and compare prices between a decent brand and the level5 brand? Just remember that if level5 is harder to use and doesn't leave as good of finish as another brand it will end up costing you more in the long run since it will take you longer to use and get decent results. This is one thing I would spend a little more dough on. Even for the limited use you describe they will be paid for in one or two jobs since you are keeping all profit in house instead of subbing out the finishing. Finishing isn't fun to me so it's worth it to me to spend a few extra bucks to not have cheap tools and make the job go as fast and easy and get the best results I can.


I realized I didn't answer this very good. I was in a hurry.

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Full-Set-Dry...ie=UTF8&qid=1489531540&sr=8-3&keywords=level5

I'm sure they aren't nearly the same quality as an expensive set, but I will be doing very limited amounts.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> By magic trowel do you mean the squeegee thing?


I assumed he meant the squeegee thing.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

builditguy said:


> I assumed he meant the squeegee thing.


Looks like it works well with the drywall spoon.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> By magic trowel do you mean the squeegee thing?


Yes, the squeeze thing. 

Thin mud, roll on. trowel in the same direction you rolled the mud on. It works really well, I was pleasantly surprised.

Tom


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## TimberlineMD (Jan 15, 2008)

I was in the same boat as you. Years ago I purchased a low price set of 'tools' (Finish-Pro). Found out they were a 'knock-off' of the Goldblatt.

You will find that in order to use whatever you buy, you will spend many hours learning to use them the right way. These tools do not 'just work'. 

After you gain the necessary 'tool experience', you'll love what they can do.

My 'cheap set' does everything I need it to do. I see that 'Level5' is being sold by 'All-Wall'. Based on that I would buy them.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I got a chance to use Tape Tech finishing knives today. 

Get the 24" instead of the Magic Trowel, easy to handle, produced a glass finish.

http://www.tapetech.com/products/Premium-Finishing-Knives

Tom


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## B.Johnson (Sep 17, 2016)

builditguy said:


> Keep in mind, it's tough to search for Level5 drywall tools. You will get thousands of hits on Level 5 finish.


If you enclose your search in quotes, you will only get results for the exact phrase (Using Google, I'm not sure about other search engines).

"Level5 drywall tools" only gave me 6 hits, and a suggestion to search for "Level 5 drywall tools"


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## Mike-B (Feb 11, 2015)

I was in Bon Tools over the fall. I picked up their version of the magic trowel. I gave it a test run while skimming a bathroom ceiling. It left little waves all over the place. I did a 5'x5' area and gave up on it.

I found it works just fine as a knockdown knife in closets.

I've read good reviews on those tape tech knives.



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## GeorgeBatesGB (Jul 4, 2017)

builditguy said:


> I realized I didn't answer this very good. I was in a hurry.
> 
> Something like this:
> https://www.amazon.com/Full-Set-Dry...ie=UTF8&qid=1489531540&sr=8-3&keywords=level5
> ...


Not sure if it's the exact same kit but you can find them here: http://www.gypsumtools.com/brands/level-5/plo-level5.html


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

builditguy said:


> That is a good point. Cheap tools drive me crazy and here I am thinking about buying some.


Don't overthink it... Just tack the price difference into the cost of the anticipated projects... just like you would if you didn't have any tools... :thumbsup:

The stress of having to worry about cheap tool performance or making up for it's deficiencies are melted away when you get the right tool for the job and pass the cost along the line to your customer...


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

KAP said:


> Don't overthink it... Just tack the price difference into the cost of the anticipated projects... just like you would if you didn't have any tools... :thumbsup:
> 
> The stress of having to worry about cheap tool performance or making up for it's deficiencies are melted away when you get the right tool for the job and pass the cost along the line to your customer...


Yeah! Right! :whistling


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I didn't update this. I always thought I should have. I ended up having my gall bladder removed. Had to sub out the last drywall job. The good that came out of it, is that I won't make that mistake again. Here are the problems I had with this particular sub.

After calling me every week for 2 months, wanting work, he was a week late.
The job should have taken 4 days. It took him 8 days. Some days he never showed up, when I called, he said, "I was in there early, it was too wet to work."
The quality was extremely low. I had to spend at least 3 days patching his work.

This put us way behind. Worked long days, every day of the week, for 4 weeks. Didn't make the deadline. The owner commented on the quality of the drywall.
I really thought it was going to cost me another job. A really good job. When they showed me the job, they brought up the drywall. I told them I would do it myself. I think that eased their concerns.

If I could find a good sub, with insurance, I would always go that route. It's not happening. Finding a good sub for anything, with insurance, is getting harder and harder. 

So, long update. Haven't bought any tools. Have a smaller but good job bid. If I get it, I will definitely be buying some tools. 
Still having a hard time embracing the Level5. They may be great, but I just can't get over the price. Just can't be the same.


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

builditguy said:


> I didn't update this. I always thought I should have. I ended up having my gall bladder removed. Had to sub out the last drywall job. The good that came out of it, is that I won't make that mistake again. Here are the problems I had with this particular sub.
> 
> After calling me every week for 2 months, wanting work, he was a week late.
> The job should have taken 4 days. It took him 8 days. Some days he never showed up, when I called, he said, "I was in there early, it was too wet to work."
> ...


Have you made a list of what you want and how much level5 brand would be vs say Columbia or another good brand? 

Skip the price aspect and just get the good ones. You may not do enough drywall to think you can justify them. But you do from what you said. You will speed up your jobs considerably going semi auto and if you don't sub out jobs anymore because you can do them yourself faster you will be saving all that money. So yes there is a decent initial cost but you will be very happy the first time you use them. 

I had this discussion the other day with someone about a track saw. He said he couldn't justify the price of one. I said the same thing for years until I took the plunge. I regret not doing it right away. These tools are expensive but because of time savings and quality they pay for themselves very fast. 

Where in Missouri are you? I recently moved to Iowa due to wife's work and am currently retired. Stay at home dad deciding what path I want to take for work, if any. If it's not too far I would come down for the day or two with my tools and let you use them. I have corner tools and a few others. Don't have boxes or a bazooka but you would get the point from just using the corner tools since they are what takes the most time. Im pretty bored not working here so it might be fun. And I guarantee that after using them once you will have zero problems ordering whatever you need. I personally ordered stuff for inside corners first since those are the biggest issue. Then ordered outside corners and some other stuff. I placed a decent order for each drywall job I got. My next order would be for boxes but since I'm currently retired not sure if or when that will be. Let me know where you are and maybe we can hook up on your next job.


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