# Insulating new foundation until spring



## squarehead (Jan 11, 2009)

Building a new 6000 SQ FT home in Northern Ontario Canada. Basement was poured in November and we are in the process of sheathing the roof now. We have had some pretty cold weather and I was wondering about the easiest way to protect the foundation from frost until spring. I am worried that running the zoom boom around will eventually drive the frost in and cause some problems. It is a remote location with no power so electric heat is no option. Any suggestions? Bales of straw?


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

You need some heat.
Insulatation by itself won't do it. All that will do is keep the wall colder for a longer period of time once it starts to warm up.
Sheet the floor and throw some heat in the basement to keep the *footings* warm.


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## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

I've got to figure this has been backfilled by now, no?


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Am I missing something here? The foundation was placed back in November and now you're worring about frost damage? Unless it's been really warm up there, I'd have to think if you haven't had any frost damage by now, you should be good. :thumbsup:


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Concrete freezes all the time, your only real concern is if the concrete cannot handle the weight of whatever equipment you put on it. As long as it had a reasonable amount of time to cure before freezing, it should be fine. Frozen or not, if you drive a big payloader on it, its going to crack. 

If you put a bunch of insulation on it, then the zoom broom or whatever the heck you have is useless anyway. Seems to me, you should get the walls and roof up and then let the heat of the ground do its thing. I know that pumping heat into an uninsulated shell is going to cost a bunch.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Poured the foundation in November and still no power??
We have often used straw, but we also will put heat down there when it gets really cold. We try to seal up the whole basement and either get one of those 200k btu propane heaters, or hang a temp gas furnace down there. The straw is a real pain to clean up later though.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Warren's got it !!

You better get both the straw and heat. Winter up hear is not done with us yet. :no:


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## squarehead (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks for all your responses.
Yes 80% of the foundation has been backfilled. 

Yes the foundaion was poured in Nov. There was "Heat" added to the concrete and it was wrapped with insulated tarps until it was cured.

Yes no power yet. Running off genny for saws and radio, Guns are all Paslode IM90 cordless guns. We are running 2 crews and currently building 5 houses. Day 13 on this one. 20 trusses left to set, build the front garage shear wall, lookouts, then on to the 180+ sheets of plywood on this 12/12 and then get the roofers in. Here is a picture day 10. We had a bunch of -30C weather mixed with yesterdays rain, now today snowing. Crazy weather up here in the great white north.

Yesterday in the rain, I laid out insulated tarps around the exposed foundation and spread out 30 bales of straw on top of them. (100+ loads of fill coming to bring site up to finished grade so not to concerned about clean up. Dozer will do that) My windows come tomorrow so I will get them in the basement ASAP and get some heat in there.


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## scrapecc (May 11, 2009)

jlhaslip said:


> You need some heat.
> Insulatation by itself won't do it. All that will do is keep the wall colder for a longer period of time once it starts to warm up.
> Sheet the floor and throw some heat in the basement to keep the *footings* warm.


 ??? Isn't mother earth a good source of heat?

I have seen frost thawed with just insulated concrete blankets. why not do a couple layers of them and let the ground keep itself heated.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

scrapecc said:


> ??? Isn't mother earth a good source of heat?
> 
> I have seen frost thawed with just insulated concrete blankets. why not do a couple layers of them and let the ground keep itself heated.


no heat around at -30 Celcius. any hole you dig gets froze up pretty quick.


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## kubie (Oct 19, 2008)

squarehead said:


> Building a new 6000 SQ FT home in Northern Ontario Canada. Basement was poured in November and we are in the process of sheathing the roof now. We have had some pretty cold weather and I was wondering about the easiest way to protect the foundation from frost until spring. I am worried that running the zoom boom around will eventually drive the frost in and cause some problems. It is a remote location with no power so electric heat is no option. Any suggestions? Bales of straw?



at least you got the front door in. lol


we drive a 25,000 lbs lift around all the time around the house here in WI and never had a problem. we build homes in the winter a lot, sometimes the basement floor is poured, sometimes not.

the only thing we had a problem with the frost pushing up a load bering wall and footing when we put the furnace in the basement and the floor wasnt poured yet.


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## scrapecc (May 11, 2009)

jlhaslip said:


> no heat around at -30 Celcius. any hole you dig gets froze up pretty quick.


Well It can be -40 Fahrenheit out and you can still prevent a hole from freezing up. earths temperature 4 feet below ground stays roughly 60 degrees f year round. 

Insulated properly with about an r8 value, the ground will provide the heat source. even if there is already frost. :thumbsup:


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Are you the framer or GC? Or the HO?

Maybe I'm just missing something, but your picture just does not indicate what you have been saying. You're saying that the house shown is 6000 SF? 180+ sheets? I just don't see where.

And why on earth are you putting up trusses with no front garage wall, but your front door is in and looks like you're ready to throw in a window, yet you say windows are coming tomorrow.

And as the framer, why is it your responsibility to worry about the foundation? Or spread straw? Or worry about the foundation freezing?

And Paslode's? Why not a gas powered compressor?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

framerman said:


> Are you the framer or GC? Or the HO?
> 
> Maybe I'm just missing something, but your picture just does not indicate what you have been saying. You're saying that the house shown is 6000 SF? 180+ sheets? I just don't see where.
> 
> ...


He's in Canada, Eh?


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## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm looking at those trusses above the garage and wondering why not rafters? That seems like a lot of space "wasted"....is this me, or is this common in the real world....I'm thinking a dormer on that and you've got a nice little space....


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Rockmonster said:


> I'm looking at those trusses above the garage and wondering why not rafters? That seems like a lot of space "wasted"....is this me, or is this common in the real world....I'm thinking a dormer on that and you've got a nice little space....


 I've been framing for 25 years. I could count on one hand the truss roofs I've erected.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

scrapecc said:


> Well It can be -40 Fahrenheit out and you can still prevent a hole from freezing up. earths temperature 4 feet below ground stays roughly 60 degrees f year round.
> 
> Insulated properly with about an r8 value, the ground will provide the heat source. even if there is already frost. :thumbsup:


We often have trouble digging that 4 ft hole in these parts. Rock.
And frost goes deeper than that here. I understand what you are saying, too. On the other hand, according to the original poster, they have no power, ergo, the inside of the basement is cold, therefore, the top of the inside footing, although 8 ft underground, is exposed to freezing conditions. We run into that all the time. He needs heat. Period.

*edit*

just reviewed the image above. Borrow power from a neighbour. Offer to pay their Hydro bill for the month.


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## squarehead (Jan 11, 2009)

Framerman- I am the GC not the HO, You are seeing the back of the house, there are 3 lifts of roof ply, 3 full lifts of shingles, and 30 bundles of starters. That works out to about 180 sheets. Space is very limited on this site. I am going to stick frame the front garage wall because there is no room to build it on the ground and stand it. It is a shear wall, plywood inside and out, with many PSL's LVL's, and it is 24' tall. The front door and the bow window were delivered in the first load and installed to get out of the way before the 2nd load comes on wednesday., I am responsible for the foundation on this one because it is a modified turn key and is a trial for the company I am building for. Generally with the company I build for the HO is responsible for the foundation and they are considered the contractor.Then it is not covered by the New Home Warranty Program because the HO is building their own house. and finally I use cordless paslodes because I hate dragging air lines.

Rockmonster- I didn't design the house. The engineer did. I agree it is alot of wasted space.

Jlhaslip- I would normally borrow power from a neighbor but the neighbor isn;t to happy about this new house going beside his and is a real PR.


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## scrapecc (May 11, 2009)

jlhaslip said:


> We often have trouble digging that 4 ft hole in these parts. Rock.
> And frost goes deeper than that here. I understand what you are saying, too. On the other hand, according to the original poster, they have no power, ergo, the inside of the basement is cold, therefore, the top of the inside footing, although 8 ft underground, is exposed to freezing conditions. We run into that all the time. He needs heat. Period.
> 
> *edit*
> ...


Wow, 8 feet huh. I would want no part of that. Maybe use a thawzall to defrost, then cover with blankets to keep the frost out. 

Good luck and stay warm!


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

OK, I'll answer the question. Get the propane company out there pronto with a big tank and hook it up to the portable pot type heaters. They run without electricity. Get some guys to close in every hole to the basement.

And you may want to check your picture since what you say still doesn't make sense. That's the garage on the right and the entry door to the left. That makes it the front.

I just don't get some of the concept. You call up the lumber yard and say "hey, send out the PT plate, my I-Joists, Advantech, 2x6 plates, studs, header stock....and oh, don't forget my front door and bay window"


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## squarehead (Jan 11, 2009)

No framerman you're wrong. the waterfront side is the front of the house. I don't deal with a lumberyard. this is a Viceroy Custom Home, the materials are all delivered as a package usually all at once. It was split into 2 "loads" because of site space issues.(Actually 4 sets of trains, because I know that next you will say that I'm lieing & all that material couldn't come in two loads) All lumber,sheathing, roofing, windows, insulation, and hardware (Except my Paslode nails) comes at once and I put it up.


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## fishin_magician (Nov 25, 2010)

squarehead I can back every thing your saying . I built manya viceroy! You have to be pretty inventive at times. Things are not always straight forward. Site conditions ,weather and sorting the package can be the hardest part of the job . The guy that never uses trusses has me scratching my head.. in my neck of the woods, i've been framing for 25 yrs and cut very few roofs . all i can figure is the industry here has figured truss=fast and insulation requirements of r40 require rasied heel of 12" at top plate to ensure proper insul/ventillation.


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