# court ordered seizure of my assets



## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I have a question, perhaps others have been through this as well. I have not paid on a few credit cards for over a year, due to drastically reduced income. One of the credit cards has a court order that they pasted on my front door (why can't they just send it in the mail?) It gives them the right with a Sheriff to take anything of value, however certain things are exempt. It is not clear in doing my research what they could actually take or not take. I'm in Michigan. I have a truck, but owe just about what it is worth, and the same with my house. I have no other assets. Fortunately I haven't lost anything else, and I'm still hanging on. Does anybody have solid information on what they can take?

P.S. Let me add that American Express is the scum of the earth, and they broke many laws in trying to collect money from me. I advise everyone not to carry American Express because if you ever run into financial trouble, they will be the first to sue you.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

You failed to pay your credit card according to the terms you agreed to so the credit card company is scum?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Isn't American Express not even a Credit Card? I thought that the bill was to be paid in full each month.

It takes two to tango. Many CC companies are predatory, but they do have a responsibility to their stock holders and their good customers to get their money back.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Why are you here? Talk to an attorney, not us.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Isn't American Express not even a Credit Card? I thought that the bill was to be paid in full each month.
> 
> It takes two to tango. Many CC companies are predatory, but they do have a responsibility to their stock holders and their good customers to get their money back.


They have various cards available. Including regular CC services. They as well as other CC sevices have cut lines of credit. 
I personally have one that closed up with no notice. This affected my credit score by 35 points. It has taken 6 months to get that back.


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## Ben of Hyde (Jan 3, 2010)

Sorry to hear. Your situation is happening across all of the US, millions of people will default on their Credit Cards in the years to come, this will add to the misery already felt.

it's just a bad situation to be in, if there's no work, there's no money. Unless you are spending foolishly or not actively looking for work i feel for those with the same problem.

Good Luck.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm here because I'm a GC without any money to pay an attorney, and I know hundreds of thousands of tradespeople are going through the same exact thing. AA is scum because they knowingly break laws on the books by threatening, using abusive language, and every other trick they can think of. Fortunately I knew my rights and hung up on them, some other (many) poor elderly lady somewhere gets suckered into paying them and then ends up losing her house. This is a well known tactic by American Express and other collection agencies, and it is against the law. Other CC companies who contacted me followed the law. Please only answer if you are helpful or can answer the question.:thumbsup:

ps thanks ben, I'm starting to see some action on the bid front.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

abacab said:


> Please only answer if you are helpful or can answer the question


When one posts on a forum, especially about a subject as (no pun intended) charged as this one, one should expect to hear the other side and to take some heat, as well as to receive advice. To complain about your treatment here is naive.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Ben of Hyde said:


> if there's no work, there's no money.


There's work, so there's no excuses.



Ben of Hyde said:


> Unless you are spending foolishly or not actively looking for work


I would say that this is the situation at hand.

Somewhere along the line, it became acceptable to be irresponsible. Like it's the fault of someone or something else.

It's called accountability and responsibility. You become an adult when you take full responsibility for the things that happen to you.

And FYI, this is the best advice you will get. You just don't like hearing it.

It's called......the facts.


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## catfish (Jul 19, 2007)

abacab said:


> I'm here because I'm a GC without any money to pay an attorney, and I know hundreds of thousands of tradespeople are going through the same exact thing. AA is scum because they knowingly break laws on the books by threatening, using abusive language, and every other trick they can think of. Fortunately I knew my rights and hung up on them, some other (many) poor elderly lady somewhere gets suckered into paying them and then ends up losing her house. This is a well known tactic by American Express and other collection agencies, and it is against the law. Other CC companies who contacted me followed the law. Please only answer if you are helpful or can answer the question.:thumbsup:
> 
> ps thanks ben, I'm starting to see some action on the bid front.


If you know the law, then why are you asking here.? Probably the notice of seizure is required to be served by LEO. BTW, that costs another 150 or so.


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## Ben of Hyde (Jan 3, 2010)

the *FACT* is millions of people are unemployed and looking for work, and things can go south on good people.


I don't own a credit card, I don't have a truck payment, I have great health, I bought into my house at a good price and didn't re-finance. 

and I'm finding it hard to make ends meet right now, I wasn't irresponsible and I'm not saying ill go under, all i'm saying is these arent normal times right now and good people are getting caught in the fallout.

Let's try not to jump all over people with out knowing all the facts.


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## maverick17 (Sep 15, 2006)

framerman said:


> There's work, so there's no excuses.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the truth.

I have a good friend who is in a similar boat. In 05-07 he was making close to $100k a year, but that was due to tons of available overtime. He spent like he made $130k. Along comes 08 and 09 and now it's the banks fault for giving him that much credit on cards, and for his cars.

My problem with him is his refusal to get a second job. He was working 60-70 hours back in the day, but now will not, since it would be for $10-12 an hour, it "just isn't worth it."


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## KellyD&B (May 4, 2009)

abacab said:


> some other (many) poor elderly lady somewhere gets suckered into paying them and then ends up losing her house.


How is having to pay back money that you owe being suckered in? Did you think you could just keep it?


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Ben of Hyde said:


> the *FACT* is millions of people are unemployed and looking for work, and things can go south on good people.
> 
> 
> I don't own a credit card, I don't have a truck payment, I have great health, I bought into my house at a good price and didn't re-finance.
> ...


The FACT, Ben, is that there will NEVER be normal times, nor have there ever BEEN normal times. The world is not the problem. 

You are in the vast majority group that is negative, pessimistic, glass half empty.

Unemployment is 10% +/-
Employment is 90% +/-

9 to 1 odds in favor of work, yet you will still respond to me that I am somehow misguided.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Attitude-*

I like the way you think Framer dude and you're will not to give up:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## jaymc (Dec 13, 2009)

sorry to hear you are in trouble...
but you spent money you did not have!!! and now they want it your upset!!

what if it was your client that was due you this kind of money would you not try all you could to get it back..


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## mattsk8 (Dec 6, 2009)

framerman said:


> The FACT, Ben, is that there will NEVER be normal times, nor have there ever BEEN normal times. The world is not the problem.
> 
> You are in the vast majority group that is negative, pessimistic, glass half empty.
> 
> ...


Actually the MI unemployment rate is 14.1%. I'm not an optimist or a pessimist, I'm a realist. Whether your glass is half empty or full depends on whether you're drinking from it or filling it.

That 14.1% also doesn't account for the majority of the construction field because most subs can't collect unemployment. It also doesn't account for people who's unemployment has already expired and still they have no job. Time's are tough over here for sure. I have plenty of friends in construction and in plenty of other fields that are desperate.

Not saying people weren't irresponsible, they were for sure. Everyone is mortgaged. But he's not the first guy I've heard say that about AA. A guy I know agreed to w/ AA on a payoff amount, AA got it then denied agreeing. Not saying his decision was bright, he should have got it writing. But to me that's welching and makes them as criminal as the person that didn't pay.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

I had a run in with Amex in 2001. My plant had closed and I got laid off. The maintenance department credit card - which got paid through accounting, never through me - was forgotten in the shuffle of the lay offs and plant closing. It took me and my former employer a year to get Amex off me. They got ROUGH. 

The card had my name, then below it the name of the corporation. All of the bills got mailed to the plant. All I ever did was write a report each month on spending. I never even saw the bills. When I left, no one went through the mail. I should have cancelled it myself, but I was full of piss and vinegar at the time with getting laid off. Two lessons I learned - never put your name on an employer's CC, and if you leave a company, make darn sure in writing what the agreement is on who picks up the ball on things like correspondence and CC's after you leave, especially if the place is getting shuttered. 

I'd be proactive, in your case, but I think that train left the station.

Call somebody at SCORE . org, you should be able to get some free advice on what the best path is. I'll bet you a sandwich they tell you to get a lawyer.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

jaymc said:


> sorry to hear you are in trouble...
> but you spent money you did not have!!! and now they want it your upset!!
> 
> what if it was your client that was due you this kind of money would you not try all you could to get it back..


I would not break the law to get it.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

KellyD&B said:


> How is having to pay back money that you owe being suckered in? Did you think you could just keep it?


When people don't have knowledge of their rights, and they are threatened with being thrown in jail (which can't happen, but these people lie all the time)and the little old lady gives up her money that she has set aside for her mortgage or food, and then is thrown out on the street, what the credit card company did was illegal, they can be sued and damages awarded to the lady. This almost never happens because the little old lady doesn't have the resources or stamina to pursue it, and the CC companies know it.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm a Ramsey fan, even if I don't care for his politics. I own his book and follow it too a T, although it took me awhile to get there. I got into such deep do-do because I was so concerned about my credit rating I took on more debt to keep it initially. That was a huge mistake. With the money I have made since then, I probably could have settled all those debts for a reduced amount.

Stonelayer, I don't have any toys. I did when I was a kid, but when I was about 23 I decided that any "toys" wasn't worth the energy, time and money that I had to put into them. I took up some activities that don't require money or that only require one time fee each time you go (and therefor your not paying when you have no money), but even those things that require a fee (golf, sking) I haven't done in years. I've found over the years I really like the simple life, and I don't smoke, I don't have a tv, don't drink or do drugs, I don't play the lottery, but then I never have in my life. I do enjoy camping, hiking, and walking my dogs.

TimNJ I did go to court, met with their attorney, the judge was not present, she only swore me in, then we went to a back room. Nothing was said to me about a judgement both times I went to court, the first time my bank accounts were seized. I was never told this was coming. Fortunately I didn't have money in there for my food, mortgage, and heat. If it had, I'd be in bankruptcy right now, and none of them would have gotten anything, including my mortgage company as my house is worth less than half of what I paid for it. The house on the corner which is comparable to mine sold about the same time as mine 4 years ago for 110,000, was sold to the bank recently for 28,000 and they turned around and sold it for 43,000. The neighborhood has really gone to pot, and nobody want to live in this neighborhood anymore.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

You know guys, there is no reason that everyone hasn't learned from the last boom....the next time you have a lot of work in front of you, pay the bills, in full, rat hole money, and whatever you do, end your relationship with CC companies. 

I maintain my accounts with my suppliers, and do not have a balance on any credit card. I know it is a tough nut to bust, but if you get out from under the killer interest and minimum payments, it is like a new day. 

BTW......I bought a clavinova for my little girl.....and a couple in front of me bought one as well...I paid a little over $200 less on a 2k purchase by using cash, and negotiating....the other couple paid by cc and didn't get a break, plus paid for delivery as well.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

This thread isn't mine, although I posted in sympathy.
It just seems in the last 3 years I have not been able to catch a break. Absolutely nothing seems to go my way, including trffic lights being in sync on a long striaght run dowm a main street.
If I buy a product, it breaks. If I plan on watching a particular tv show, the satelite goes down. If I have a repair done on my plow, it breaks down after 1/2 hour of work.
My insurance company promised me snow plow insurance in writing, then reneged AFTER I got my contracts.
My first quote for insurance was $47,000, which we eventually got down to $15,000, but the finance was put through (without my approval)so I have to pay $3000/month instead of $1300 (it's only for 5 months, but if I DON"T come up with $3000, my insurance is cancelled)
I had NO sales at all in November, for the first time ever in 30 years.
And on and on. Just nothing breaks my way.
On the othe hand, a friend of mine who owns a deck company fell into a deal 6 months ago and now he's swimming in money.
Maybe things will get better.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

What do you need that much insurance for? health or business? I had to drop my health insurance, didn't make financial sense anyway when I have no money. My business insurance is only $50 a month. I've had some similar strings of bad luck, $7000 in truck repair bills over a year, and then kidney stones and a job that went South. I've always considered myself an upbeat positive and lucky person, but when it hits you, it all comes at once. I went through a period of depression for a couple of years which led up to all this, and was partly the reason I was not ready for Mr. Murphy. I thought I would go out of construction entirely for a long time, just couldn't enjoy the work. Then I started making new plans and got excited about a non-profit organisation I was starting, and then it was like majic, and I found myself enjoying every minute of work, even doing crappy dirty work. After that I continued to experience even worse situations, most notably the failure of my initiatives to drum up more work, but yet my spirits remain high.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Stone Mountain said:


> Maybe things will get better.


Things will

In business determination always wins over talent. :thumbsup:


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## cjaccardi (Jan 21, 2010)

credit cards are one of the most dangerous things to own really, unless you , nah even if you are responsible and good with money avoid them unless you can pay in full each month. I would take out a loan first before a credit card, and they are scum , yes borrowed the money but they knew the risks of lending money to you , they collected their interest , and they collect their interests on everyone. Didnt american express change their status to become a bank so they could take government handouts because they couldnt pay their bills, but unfortunately we are not to big to fail.

We are swept to the side , threaten abused, etc you shouldve really called a attorney when you had them calling you , if it was for business though I do not know what you can do , but if the credit cards were for consumer uses then you have a lot of protection

I do not understand this post though because credit cards are unsecured loans and the follow rules apply :
Credit card debt is an unsecured loan; so basically, a credit card company cannot legally take any physical assets from you. A physical asset would be your home, car, stocks, bonds, or anything that you own that has a tangible existence. However, a credit card company can go court and win a judgment against you, which may lead to you having a wage garnishment attached to your wages. So in the long run, defaulting on a credit card debt can cause you to lose a portion of your income, which is an asset. However, this unique situation would vary according to your credit card provider.

please explain I never heard of credit card company being able to take possessions of your stuff


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Things will
> 
> In business determination always wins over talent. :thumbsup:


I'd rather be lucky than good any day. Luck comes from playing the game. If you don't play - you'll never be lucky. "Determination", "Play the game" same thing. Get in - get it done - get paid (from my IBM training).:thumbsup:


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

Good luck Stone Mountain. You're a good guy. I always valued your opinions here, and still do, despite your unfortunate circumstances.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

cjaccardi said:


> please explain I never heard of credit card company being able to take possessions of your stuff


I don't know if they still have it, but at one time, not that long ago Sears had a paragraph on their receipt that basically said they could repo the merchandise you bought if you you didn't pay your CC bill.
I hate to throw gas on your fire abacab, but AmEx is the only card I use just because it forces you to pay in full. It is like having a 30 day account without having to set one up at each individual supplier. I use AmEx for everything except gas and food.


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> I hate to throw gas on your fire abacab, but AmEx is the only card I use just because it forces you to pay in full. It is like having a 30 day account without having to set one up at each individual supplier. I use AmEx for everything except gas and food.


My Amex card buys all materials, supplys, and even pays the business bills. Me and my family enjoyed an all inclusive 10 day trip to Aruba recently because of the 750,000 points I earned last year.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

There are different kind of American Express Cards, yours is similar to most of my local contractor accounts. I'd still rather use a debit card with rewards than deal with American Express. They really are scummy, and not just because I had a bad experience. You'll find a disproportionate amount of complaints from both customers and merchants about American Express, and Dave Ramsey calls them the scum of the earth more often than any other card (he frequently says they are the worst of the bunch). I also found that about 1/4 of the places i visited don't take American Express. If it wasn't for our damn government, they would be out of business.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I hate having loans of any kind although in order to have big purchases you do need them. I had a credit card problem but once I had them all paid off, I havent touched one in over two years and if I do, its a 6 months no interest card at Menards that I pay off before that 6 months becomes do.

By the time I have my home paid off, I am paying the bank more than double what the loan was for. I could nearly be in a million dollar house by the time this is paid off. 100 dollars of my personal car payment just goes right to the bank, to pay someones salary.

This sums it up best.

Thomas Jefferson said in 1802 
'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered..'


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## Choscura (Jan 20, 2010)

I'll add my two cents here.

Every business has an operating cost: every business has a defined amount of money that it takes in order for the business to work. Some businesses have very low operating costs (eg, Walmart- this is why everything there is so cheap), some businesses have very high operating costs (EG, most hospitals).

If you don't know the operating cost of your own business, you are being irresponsible. If you aren't figuring in the cost of all the payments you need to make into the default operating cost, you don't know the operating cost of your own business- and are being irresponsible. If you aren't paying off the debts that you have agreed to pay, you are being even more irresponsible. The debts are more important than your feelings, your quality of life, and your house. You agreed to this when you signed the contract for the money, in whatever form it took.

To come here, now, and try to get our sympathy because of your own irresponsibility is beyond irresponsible. It is unacceptable. To show us your case and assume we will take your side just because we have the same job description is also unacceptable. You were in control of your own assets. Nobody took your card from you and spent money on things that you didn't want. You bought the things yourself. You knew what the agreement was for your card- this was also your responsibility- and you bought everything anyway.


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## laxdad (Jul 22, 2009)

i don't believe the orig poster ever asked anyone to pass judgement on his situation. cc companies plan for and expect that BK's will happen, that cards will go into collection etc. the reward far outweighs the risk to them. and no one cries the blues for them. 

i have friends that have really been in dire straights over debt the last few years. and many walked away, as i would have in the same situation. they paid who they could, but ultimately got out from under as much as possible. some others saw it as their responsibilty to pay every cent back. 

i myself have always paid in full, but as a business owner things happen. markets expand and contract, and it's anybody's guess what the next month will bring. i have had 3 very successful businesses. the second one was VERY lucrative for about 4 years. the 5th year we broke even. 6th did better... and the 7th we had to begin paying savings monthly to stay open. the eighth year - became a decision to either use cards and home equity to cover down months. and i did it for about six months but couldn't stomach it any longer. 

my business partner saw me as a quitter and weak and we decided to part ways. still good friends. long story short, he dug a hole in the following 6 months that he may never get out of (his own words).

usually all of these things form a perfect storm and more than likely, the business owner (like we did) continues to think that we'll have that good stretch to make up for this mess. the good stretch doesn't come for long enough or soon enough... and there you are living off cards. 

i wish you luck, and can honestly tell you that we all need to learn from this latest 'humbling' and this too shall pass


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

laxdad said:


> i don't believe the orig poster ever asked anyone to pass judgement on his situation


This is a discussion forum. So when you post anything, you are asking for it to be discussed, and judgements therein will be forthcoming


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

Everyone sees everyone else's problems in 20/20 vision. I have seen the error of my ways and I am and have been in the process of doing everything in my power to correct them. I have not once complained here of my treatment or expected anyone to agree with me. I came to contractortalk for advice and to turn my situation around. I could have bailed on all my debts a year ago, but I'm choosing to stick it out and repay them. That I can only do when more than enough income comes in to pay more than just for food, lights, and the mortgage. I'm thankful for my situation because it will change me forever, in the same way that the Great Depresssion changed our Grandparents or Great Grandparents handling of money for the better. I hope others can learn from my mistakes and irresponsibility of the past.


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## laxdad (Jul 22, 2009)

Anti-wingnut said:


> This is a discussion forum. So when you post anything, you are asking for it to be discussed, and judgements therein will be forthcoming


 
well sure, it's an internet forum. i understand that. but, it doesn't lend much to the orig posters quest. which to be honest doesn't really have a ton of info. we can assume all kinds of stuff in every direction. 

his attorney should be giving him the info. and hopefully he has one that understands chapt 7 and 13. 

i would have just continued to not post at all, but the chest pufferey is just getting a little silly. things happen. and the notable is usually not good news


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

laxdad said:


> well sure, it's an internet forum. i understand that. but, it doesn't lend much to the orig posters quest. which to be honest doesn't really have a ton of info. we can assume all kinds of stuff in every direction.


Like they told Jack Nicholson in the end of "China Town"; it's Chinatown (the internet) Jake, it's chinatown


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## cjaccardi (Jan 21, 2010)

either way i feel really bad for you , I hope it all works out . Sometimes you just got to pray and hope.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

laxdad said:


> i myself have always paid in full, but as a business owner things happen. markets expand and contract, and it's anybody's guess what the next month will bring. i have had 3 very successful businesses. the second one was VERY lucrative for about 4 years. the 5th year we broke even. 6th did better... and the 7th we had to begin paying savings monthly to stay open. the eighth year - became a decision to either use cards and home equity to cover down months. and i did it for about six months but couldn't stomach it any longer.
> 
> my business partner saw me as a quitter and weak and we decided to part ways. still good friends. long story short, he dug a hole in the following 6 months that he may never get out of (his own words).
> 
> ...


Bingo. Exactly what happened to me. Things were going great until fall 2007. Then the breaks stopped coming, I made a few incorrect decisions(stupid really, in retrospect), trusted the wrong people, and suddenly, "POOF", it was all gone. I sunk tons more money in when I shouldn't have and now I'm reduced to ...well, I don't know what.

To the originator of this column, I sympathise. For the cc to come after you though, they had to have gotten a court order, and they had to give you some notice. You probably just ignored it, like me. I suggest you get all your affairs together, and either go to a credit counselor to negotiate with your creditors, or go to a trustee in banckruptcy. Either way, there is help out there.


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