# Today was a good day.



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Brian, near as I can tell from that fuzzy attachment, it says nothing about why you would or wouldn't do it the way I suggested. I admit I haven't worked with VFDs, but I don't see why you can't put a switch to cut the input power anywhere you want to. Why would it have to be physically close to the VFD?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Tin,
VFD's are not as simple as you think... I am sorry about the picture quality on that diagram ( the"de-rating" factor to upload on kb size)

There is 220v single ph coming into the VFD, between that line and the VFD is where it is acceptable to install a mechanical breaker.

Then at the VFD you run a "shielded" line from the terminals for the remote control- now that line can not exceed the manufacturers specs as far as length. EX: the maximum length allowable on my Yaskawa J7 is 10' - this has something to do with the potentiometer that controls the speed of the machinery. This all depends on the manufacturer...

So lets say you mount the VFD in a central location and want to run several machines off of 1 VFD. keep in mind you can't exceed the VFD's amp limits.... as long as the VFD can run all the machinery (1 at a time) within it's parameters- then thats ok......
That RC line that is run from the VFD is used to control the VFD- if you have the run/stop programed to ramp up/ramp down and something goes wrong with the machinery this method of stopping the motor is not suitable and not safe IMO..
When you use the mechanical breaker or (Panic switch); which would be installed between the feed line and the VFD as I stated earlier, this would stop the machine instantly, other than the residual momentum of the machinery due to mass-ie band saw wheels,

So,
IMO- for safety...you need to have that mechanical breaker to actually shut down the VFD instantly.

What I have seen some WW'rs do with 1 VFD is have a designated outlet (out-feed- 3ph) from the VFD and they move the machinery to the area where the mechanical breaker is for the VFD and the controller is within range and at the machinery. I just don't like this setup - there are wires crossing over /not user friendly and just an accident waiting to happen IMO.

I have (6) 220v single ph receptacles in my shop and they are right at the machinery location. The VFD/Mech Breaker & controller are all permanently mounted on the machinery running only 1 machine at a time. This is the way most manufacturers of VFD's want this application run- and I understand why- some guys omit the mech breaker  which is not a wise move... because as I said ,,, that cuts the power to the VFD and will stop a ramp down cycle or what ever you have the VFD programed to do at that moment, from cycling....instantly

I realize it is more expensive having a VFD per machine...but it is well worth the investment to run these properly,with safety in mind...:thumbsup::notworthy


B.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> When you use the mechanical breaker or (Panic switch); which would be installed between the feed line and the VFD as I stated earlier, this would stop the machine instantly, other than the residual momentum of the machinery due to mass-ie band saw wheels,


Okay, so you're saying that switch will actually apply braking, rather than just cutting the power? I'm all for that. But I guarantee I could wire up a panic button to operate it from anywhere in your shop, safely and reliably.

I have no quibble at all about the other concerns you mention; obviously it's much more convenient if not downright necessary to have local control of speed, ramping and so forth. :thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Stupid dust collection.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Dust collection is not stupid. You are just to cheap to pay for good DC.:w00t: Why don't you go to one of those auctions and fight the Amish over it :laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Dust collection is not stupid. You are just to cheap to pay for good DC.:w00t: Why don't you go to one of those auctions and fight the Amish over it :laughing:


I think I got it figured out. I need one with about 1250 CFM.

Then I can add a cyclone to it for another 200 bucks and that should take care of it. Still have 700 bucks in it.

The amish just use their kids and some extra brooms.:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I would go 1600 cfm - Darce, you don't need all the bells & whistles now... just something that sucks...:blink: adaquatly.....:laughing:
I spent 300 on a dble bager 1600 and it works great- uses....220 single ph. i get plenty of draw out of it.... just saying,,,,

B.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I would go 1600 cfm - Darce, you don't need all the bells & whistles now... just something that sucks...:blink: adaquatly.....:laughing:
> I spent 300 on a dble bager 1600 and it works great- uses....220 single ph. i get plenty of draw out of it.... just saying,,,,
> 
> B.


Did you find that used?

I was looking at a new Penn State.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

used Darce...

B.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

PrestigeR&D said:


> tcleve4911 said:
> 
> 
> > I also noticed they had ribbons on them that said "Keepers":laughing:
> ...


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

no biggie,,,
this font crap screws initial meanings up all the time.....:laughing::thumbsup: 

B,:notworthy


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

Thanks for the reply.........


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Did you find that used?
> 
> I was looking at a new Penn State.


Darce,,

My buddy purchased the 2200 CFPM system from the same place I got the Oli & Amer -

here is what he got...
- Blower housing 3hp/3ph/2-bags/2-50 gal containers with built in casters on both/160' of 5" vine ribbed steel pipe tubing/11 elbows- including 5 reducers to 4" and 5 metal blast gates/ 30' of flex clear flex pipe.... everything for less than 1/2 of what your looking at in a new DC unit now...:whistling

B,


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I don't think it will fit in his garage Brian. :w00t:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

well,
I was using this for an example Lee,, Just think you get a better deal going used..I mean ...after all .... all it does is suck... no. i mean it sucks.....dam:shutup:.. it's just used to collect wood waiste...:laughing:... having some phrasing issues....ahhhhhh:laughing: 

B,:thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

...Just put it outside. :thumbup: Helps remove the smoke too.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Quit picking on my garage, it is 1500 square feet.

It does only have 8' ceilings.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Its bigger than one of my bays (1300), too bad I have two bays.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

........:










B,:shifty:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

What have I told you about popcorn Brian :tapping foot emoticon:


:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

OK.....:shifty:,,,,,,I'll knock it off.....:laughing: 

saw you guys closed humble servant.. I had a collection going... oh well...



hey Darce.... http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/2250556600.html
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/tls/2217255353.html 

B.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> OK.....:shifty:,,,,,,I'll knock it off.....:laughing:
> 
> saw you guys closed humble servant.. I had a collection going... oh well...
> 
> ...


I saw both of those. That is really a deal on the grizzly one, except it is 10hp.:laughing:

There is a place by chicago that has a bunch of 2 baggers around 2000 cfm's for 350-450 bucks.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Its bigger than one of my bays (1300), too bad I have two bays.



Too bad I could only use about 130 square feet of mine.:whistling

I should have called that show, Hoarders, let them deal with the mess.

I am making a pile that will be sold to fund a dust collector and possibly the strand wiring, conduit, distribution panel and 3 phase breakers.

Anyone want to buy a 4' claw foot tub?

I have so much cool crap, just too much.

CL here I come.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

they will do the job IMO... seriously... just try to be at 1600 cfpm and up- you can always update later if you like. I know right now that RPC is on the top of the list.. just trying to help you out....:thumbsup:

B.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> they will do the job IMO... seriously... just try to be at 1600 cfpm and up- you can always update later if you like. I know right now that RPC is on the top of the list.. just trying to help you out....:thumbsup:
> 
> B.



I just want to make sure it is big enough to expand a bit more first.

I know my planer will kick up the most chips so, it has to be big enough to keep up with it, by itself. You add in the few other machines and then a few invisible one's, it gets a little bigger in size.

I want good filtration too, I have been spoiled for the last few years on site and at home with my CT-22.

Mom is going to have to donate more money to the free shavings for horses cause.:whistling:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Horse crap + wood dust= $$$$$$$:laughing:

You are going to need blast gates Darce.... you run those all open and it will suck alright...:shifty: in it's performance :laughing: 

ahhh... if you want to run all your eqiupment on open DC lines....you need to add just 1 more "0" on the cfpm rating...Dixie 22000 CFPM monster :whistling

your gong to need to mount this next to your shop... ... I am sure the wife won't mind...:w00t::laughing::jester:

hey... the plus side... you can run some lines into the house and have a centeral vac system... it may suck the carpets right off the floors ... so i would be carefull :laughing:

B.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

That might be a bit much.:laughing:

I realize I will need blast gates. I want to run a 5" or 6" and then reduce to my machine drops.

I can rig them for the first few uses but, I know where I want to end up.

I am also leaving a bay open for assembly, loading and for her to park in, when my stuff is not in the way. 

Also space to work on a vehicle.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

ahhhhh,,, :jester:come on,,,,, would you expect less...:laughing: 

I was looking at the rpc's brand new10hp with a Baldor motor...$775.00 anything in your area...? you think you can round up a used unit? for 1/2 that...?

B,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Darce...
I know this is long.. but for your own edification - read this- very good read for RPC-:thumbsup: 

B,



Many quality used industrial machines are available at attractive prices that have 3 phase electric motors. Most residential homes do not have access to 3 phase electric power at a reasonable price. If the home shop builder decides to use these machines they must either replace the 3 phase motors with single phase motors or find a way to use the single phase power at their house to run them. This article explains how to build a rotary phase converter that will convert your single phase 220 VAC electric power to 3 phase 220 VAC to power your industrial machines. 

Safety should be your first concern and any electrical wiring should follow your local electrical code. That being said, some typical wire sizes, overload, and short circuit protection methods will be described to get you started. Also, the metal frame of the motors and your machines should be grounded. This safety ground normally does not conduct any electricity. It is present in case a current carrying conductor accidentally touches the metal frame. This provides a low resistance path for the electricity to flow instead of going through your body to earth ground. 
There are two basic types of phase converters on the market which will allow 3 phase motors to run using single phase input to the converter. These types are referred to as static and rotary. The static converter is basically only a start circuit that once the motor starts, disengages and lets the motor run on single phase power. The disadvantage of this method is that the motor winding currents will be very unbalanced and the motor will not be able to run above about two-thirds its rated horsepower. The rotary converter provides current in all 3 phases and although not perfect, will allow a motor to provide all or nearly all its rated horsepower. If the motor has a service factor of 1.15 to 1.25 then you should be able to use full rated horsepower. The service factor can be found on the motor nameplate and is usually abbreviated S.F. The reasons that the electric power is not perfect are very technical and can include small amounts of voltage and current imbalance as well as the phase angles between phases not being perfect. The voltage and current balancing is straight forward if you have access to a voltmeter or preferably a clamp-on type ammeter. But even if you don't have these meters, using the approximate values of run capacitors specified in this article the currents should be close and you will be able to get nearly full horsepower from your 3 phase motors. 
The terminology used to described the phase converter parts needs clarification. The rotary part of the rotary phase converter is a standard 3 phase electric motor called the idler motor. It is called this because typically it has no mechanical load connected to its shaft. Since applying single phase power to a 3 phase motor will not start it rotating, a means to start the idler motor turning near rated speed is necessary. This can be done in several ways. A pull rope can be used, a small single phase electric motor can be used, or a start capacitor can be used. If the mechanical means are used, power to the idler is not applied until after the motor is spinning and the rope or power to the single phase motor is removed. To balance the voltages and currents in the 3 phase output a pair of run capacitors can be used. A disconnect switch is required by most local electrical codes for each piece of equipment. If a plug and receptacle is used to connect power to the equipment, this meets the disconnect requirement. Overload protection is required for each motor.


This can be built-in to the motor or provided separately. Check the motor nameplate, if it does not say built-in overload protection, then it must be supplied separately. Typically, a thermal overload relay and a magnetic contactor are used for controlling the motor. The magnetic contactor is a heavy duty relay for turning motors on and off. It is designed to handle the high starting currents of motors. There are also mechanical (manual) contactors available with thermal overload protection as part of the switch. 


For the purpose of this article the two wires carrying the single phase 220 VAC power will be called lines 1 and 2. These are connected to terminals 1 and 2 of the idler motor, respectively. The wire coming from the third terminal of the idler motor will be called line 3. 


To build a rotary phase converter follow the general schematic shown in *figure 1.* The single phase 220 VAC input is brought in on lines 1 and 2, labeled L1 and L2 in figure 1. Time delay cartridge fuses are used for short circuit protection. 1R-1 and 1R-2 are the main contacts for the magnetic contactor (power relay.) The coil for this relay is denoted 1R. The run capacitors are wired between lines 1-3 and lines 2-3. The overloads are part of a thermal overload relay with a normally closed contact labeled OL-1. This contact will open if any overload is tripped. Opening this contact disables the flow of current through the 120 VAC control circuit deenergizing the coil 1R. The idler motor terminals are labeled T1, T2, and T3. The start circuit uses relay 2R and its contact 2R-1 to connect the start capacitor across lines 1 and 3 while the start push button is held in. In the control wiring, the auxiliary contact of relay 1, labeled 1R- X, maintains power to the coil 1R after the start push button is released. The 3 phase output power is connected after the main contacts (1R-1 and 1R-2) so that power from lines 1 and 2 are not connected to the output unless the phase converter is running. 
A simpler alternative, which eliminates the separate start circuit and also eliminates the set of run capacitors between lines 2-3 is called a self starting phase converter. This design is discussed later in this article. 
Choose the wire size based on the current that will flow in the wire. Table 1 can be used for guidance and is based on 3 phase, 220 VAC motors and 125% of motor nameplate current. Use only copper wire with a minimum size of #14. It is acceptable to use larger wire than listed in table 1. 
*Table 1.*
Minimum suggested wire sizes. Motor Motor Wire HP Current Size ---- ------- -------- 1/2 2.0 #14 3/4 2.8 #14 1.0 3.6 #14 2.0 6.8 #14 3.0 9.6 #14 5.0 15.2 #12 7.5 22.0 #10
If a run of wire longer than 50 feet is used such as from the circuit breaker panel to the phase converter, choose the wire size to keep the voltage drop in the wire less than 3 percent. Remember to add the currents of all devices that will draw power from this feed wire. Table 2 can be used for guidance and is based on copper wire.

*Table 2.*
Minimum suggested wire size for low voltage drop. Current Length of wire in feet: Amps 60 90 120 150 180 210 5 #14 #14 #14 #14 #14 #14 6 #14 #14 #14 #14 #14 #12 7 #14 #14 #14 #14 #12 #12 8 #14 #14 #14 #12 #12 #12 9 #14 #14 #12 #12 #10 #10 10 #14 #14 #12 #12 #10 #10 12 #14 #12 #12 #10 #10 #10 14 #12 #12 #10 #10 #10 #8 16 #12 #12 #10 #10 #10 #8 18 #10 #10 #10 #8 #8 #8 20 #10 #10 #10 #8 #8 #8 25 #10 #10 #8 #8 #6 #6 30 #8 #8 #8 #6 #6 #6
Selecting the idler motor is the first step. It should be a 3 phase motor rated to operate at the line voltage and frequency that is available, normally 220 VAC, 60 Hertz.

The phase converters tested here were wye (star) wound. Some motors are delta wound. Many motors have more than 3 leads so that it can be wired for more than one voltage. Dual voltage wound motors typically have 9 leads as shown in *figure 2.* Check the motor nameplate, if for voltage it lists 220/440 then it can be wired one way for 220 volts and another way for 440 volts. If you are not sure, disconnect all wires and measure the resistance between wires and compare to figure 2. The same motor would have the amperage listed as 15/7.5 meaning it will draw 15 amps when connected for 220 VAC and 7.5 amps when connected for 440 VAC. The speed rating is not important; from 1100 to 3600 RPM are all fine. The higher speed might produce slightly better phase angles, but the lower speed is generally easier to start. Ball bearing motors are recommended rather than motors with sleeve bearings. 


If the motor has oil cups it is a sleeve type bearing, if it has grease fittings or no fittings at all it is a ball bearing type. Spin the motor to be sure the bearings are good. Also, when buying a used motor connect an ohmmeter between each lead and the frame to verify that no short circuits are present. That is a sign that the insulation inside the motor is defective. For guidance, the cost of a used 3 phase motor of 2 horsepower or less should be about $20; for larger motors use about $10 per horsepower. The horsepower rating of the idler motor should be the same or higher than the largest 3 phase motor that you will use. If you have equipment that starts with the motor loaded, such as an air compressor, then 1.5 times the motor horsepower would be recommended. 


The start capacitor should be rated for at least 250 VAC. The inexpensive electrolytic type can be used. If the idler motor is 1 horsepower or less the more expensive oil filled type used for run capacitors can also be used because the small size is not too expensive. The self starting phase converter uses the same set of oil filled capacitors for both starting and as run capacitors. The electrolytic type will lose capacitance over the years and therefore should be purchased new. It can be identified by the round, black, plastic case. The microfarad rating should be chosen by the horsepower rating of the idler motor. Since the idler motor is started without a mechanical load, the size is not critical and for guidance anything between 50 and 100 microfarads per horsepower will work. The larger rating will bring the motor up to speed faster and draw more current while starting. A 220- 250 VAC, 270-324 microfarad start capacitor sells new for about $15. 
The run capacitors are optional. The converter will work fine without them, however you may only be able to get about 80% power from your 3 phase motors due to low current in the third line. The run capacitors are commonly rated for 330 or 370 VAC. The oil filled type must be used. These are rated for continuous AC duty while the electrolytic type are not and could explode. The oil filled type will not loose capacitance over the years and therefore can be purchased used or surplus.


A new 50 microfarad run capacitor might cost $50 while used or surplus only $7. It can be identified by the metal case and oval shape (sometimes rectangular or even round.) The purpose of the run capacitors is to balance the voltage and current in the 3 phase lines. One set is connected between lines 1 and 3. The other is connected between lines 2 and 3. A set may be needed because if more than about 50 microfarads are needed, two or more separate capacitors must be connected in parallel to obtain the desired value. The best way to size these is by trial and error using a clamp-on type ammeter on the 3 phase lines while the 3 phase motor is running. For perfect balance each set may be a different value. For guidance or if perfect balancing of the currents is not needed, the microfarad rating can be estimated by the horsepower rating of the idler motor. Using equal capacitance of 12 to 16 microfarads per horsepower should result in a satisfactory balance. 
<A href="http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/fig3.html">







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The effect of the run capacitors on voltage and current in the 3 phase lines is shown in *figure 3* and *figure 4.* In figure 3, a 3/4 horsepower idler motor needed about 18 microfarads between both lines 1-3 and lines 2-3. In figure 4, a 5 horsepower idler motor needed about 70 microfarads between the phases. This idler was best balanced with 80 microfarads between lines 1-3 and 60 microfarads between lines 2-3, although 70 microfarads between each was only slightly worse. 
<A href="http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/fig5.html">







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During the current balancing tests the 3 phase motor was only turning the spindle on the lathe, no metal was being cut. This was to obtain a repeatable, albeit small, load. Table 3 shows the current balance using various run capacitors. 
The self starting phase converter uses capacitance between only one phase (1-3) instead of using 2 sets as recommended here. The result of trying this with the same 5 horsepower phase converter is shown in figure 5. The balance of voltages and currents improved compared to no run capacitors, but not as well as putting capacitance between both lines 1-3 and lines 2-3. In either case, as a side benefit, the single phase current draw which includes both the phase converter and the load motor power consumption will also be reduced dramatically as shown in figure 6. When no 3-phase motors were operating and only the idler was running, the single phase current without run capacitors was 14.8 amperes and with the run capacitors it was only 4.4 amperes as shown by the triangles in figure 6. This 70 percent reduction in current is impressive, but due to the change in power factor the actual power consumption only changed from 379 watts to 295 watts or 22 percent. 
*Table 3.*
1/2 HP lathe motor turning spindle only. Single Phase Line Three Phase LinesAmps Volts pf Watts ----- Amps ------ Capacitance Line1 Line2 Line3 pf Watts 1-3 2-317.22 246.2 0.16 685 2.37 2.42 0.43 0.45 289 0 015.85 246.7 0.16 627 2.27 2.33 0.59 0.43 279 10 1010.13 246.6 0.22 545 1.91 2.09 1.29 0.39 279 50 50 8.67 246.2 0.26 557 1.83 2.06 1.52 0.37 279 60 60 7.15 245.6 0.29 512 1.68 2.00 1.72 0.32 240 70 70 7.13 245.6 0.29 504 1.81 1.88 1.76 0.32 249 80 60
To assure that the size of run capacitors would not be far off while cutting metal, a couple data points were taken at a spindle speed of 130 RPM and a feed rate of 0.004 inches/revolution while turning down the diameter of a piece of mild steel. The original diameter was 1.850 inches. The first cut of 0.030 reduced the diameter twice that to 1.790. The second cut of 0.060 started from the 1.790 diameter and reduced it to 1.670. Table 4 lists the results which show a balance similar to when the same capacitance was used and the spindle was not cutting metal. 
*Table 4.*
60 microfarads between lines 1-3 and lines 2-3. Single Phase Line Three Phase LinesAmps Volts pf Watts ----- Amps ------ Line 1 Line 2 Line 3 pf Watts8.67 246.2 0.26 557 1.83 2.06 1.52 0.37 279 Spindle only8.71 247.1 0.26 565 1.83 2.08 1.53 0.40 303 0.030 inch cut8.85 247.1 0.30 648 1.90 2.18 1.58 0.50 387 0.060 inch cut
There are two relays shown in the schematic in *figure 1.* The number 1 relay is the main power relay and should have a motor horsepower rating suitable for the idler motor size. These are often referred to as magnetic contactors. It has two main poles to switch the 220 VAC single phase lines and an auxiliary set of contacts used to latch the coil of the relay energized when the main contacts are closed. The idler is shut off by pressing the stop button which opens the circuit to the coil causing the contactor to open. The number 2 relay is used to connect the start capacitor to the circuit. A relay is used so that the high starting currents do not go through the push button. A motor rated relay can be used or if a current rated relay is used select it to carry at least 2 times the nameplate current. The actual current depends on the size of the start capacitor and can be estimated using the following equation. 
i = 2 (3.14) (frequency) (voltage) (capacitance)/10^6 i = 2 (3.14) ( 60 ) ( 220 ) ( 300 )/10^6 = 24.9 amps
Electrical codes require a disconnect for each piece of equipment. The disconnect switch (or plug) separates all current carrying conductors from the line voltage. For 220 VAC single phase systems this is 2 wires (a 2 pole switch), for 3 phase systems this is 3 wires (a 3 pole switch.) Since the phase converter is supplied with single phase power it can use a 2 pole disconnect or 2 of the 3 poles of a 3 pole switch. Each piece of equipment using the 3 phase power should also have its own 3 pole service disconnect. Many of these have fuses as part of the switch and are referred to as fused disconnects. For motor applications this is helpful since the motor overloads do not sufficiently protect from short circuits like fuses do. The use of time delay, cartridge fuses are common with motor circuits. Some local codes allow the use of the branch circuit disconnect or circuit breaker as the service disconnect for the equipment if it is within sight of the equipment. The disconnect of the phase converter can often meet this requirement in home shops. 


The idler motor is started first and typically left running while the 3 phase motors in the shop are turned on and off as needed. More than one motor at a time can be operated and each running motor will act as a phase converter for the others so the total horsepower running can be 2 to 3 times the idler motor horsepower. If a manual switch is used instead of a magnetic contactor, then the push button to engage the start capacitor must be held in before the manual switch is turned on. When the idler motor starts (about 1 second or less) then the push button for the start capacitor is released. 


Commercial vendors of static converters allow using the static converter to start an idler motor so that several motors can be run at the same time. However, some of these commercial units use voltage or current sensing relays to engage the start capacitor. If a motor near the size of the idler (which the static converter is sized for) is started, the start-up current can drop the line voltage for a fraction of a second and result in the start capacitor engaging. This can overload the static converter since other motors are running. The design recommended here does not have this limitation since the start capacitor is only engaged when the operator pushes the start button.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

continued...


*Self Starting Phase Converter*

A self starting phase converter is simpler and less expensive than the converter shown in *figure 1.* A self starting schematic is shown in *figure 7.* However, the current and voltage balance in the 3-phase output varies more with load so that some unbalance is present at loads other than the one for which capacitance was selected. 
For many shops the small amount of unbalance is acceptable and most commercial rotary phase converters are the self starting type. Inside one commercial 2 horsepower rotary phase converter was two 30 microfarad capacitors in parallel, this is effectively 60 microfarads. Since only two wires went between the capacitor bank and the motor, these must be connected across only one phase. In a 3 HP converter of a different manufacturer, three 40 microfarad capacitors were used (120 microfarads total.) 



For the simplest converter, without a separate start circuit, using 25-30 microfarads per idler horsepower between one of the input lines and the third (generated) line will provide an acceptable phase converter. Too little capacitance and the idler either will not start, or it will start very slowly. Since the time delay fuses typically used for motor short circuit protection will allow some amount of over current for starting for about 5 seconds, it is recommended that enough capacitance be used to start the idler faster than that. Excess capacitance will cause the 3-phase voltages to exceed the input line voltage, especially when the idler is not loaded. Tables 5 and 6 show the voltages with various capacitance for a 5 HP and a 3 HP phase converter, respectively.


The lathe used to put a load on the converter for the tests in tables 5 and 6 has a 1/2 HP motor; the drill press used has a 3/4 HP motor. As more 3-phase load was applied, the voltages across lines 1-3 and 2-3 were reduced as shown in the tables. Also shown in tables 5 and 6 are the times the idler needed to start. Compare *figure 4* and *figure 5* and decide if the improvement in output balancing is worth the extra effort of a separate start circuit which is required if equal capacitance is connected across both lines 1-3 and 2-3. 
*Table 5.*
5 HP self starting idler. Start Time 3-Phase Voltages Seconds L1-L2 L1-L3 L2-L3120 microfarads: 2.6 247.1 262.8 238.7 No load 246.9 255.4 231.0 Lathe 247.1 251.0 227.2 Lathe & Drill press130 microfarads: 1.6 246.9 264.8 243.7 No load 246.6 258.6 234.8 Lathe 246.2 253.7 229.8 Lathe & Drill press150 microfarads: 1.0 247.9 270.3 253.6 No load 246.6 263.2 244.0 Lathe 247.8 259.2 238.8 Lathe & Drill press
*Table 6.*
3 HP self starting idler. Start Time 3-Phase Voltages Seconds L1-L2 L1-L3 L2-L3 50 microfarads: 0.8 245.6 249.4 225.0 No load 245.6 239.0 220.0 Lathe 70 microfarads: 0.8 245.5 260.4 238.7 No load 100 microfarads: 0.6 246.1 277.7 256.1 No load 245.9 262.5 245.6 Lathe 245.6 255.9 236.6 Lathe & Drill press120 microfarads: 0.6 245.5 288.0 265.7 No load 245.7 270.3 254.9 Lathe 245.3 261.5 245.9 Lathe & Drill press
I would like to thank all those who sent me information on phase converters. I hope this article summarizes the information in a usable format. I believe the test data provides some much needed quantitative information to help sort out fact from fiction. 

Jim Hanrahan


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

:blink:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

what Lee....:shifty::laughing: 

I know it's long... but there are some great guidlines in there....you just have to have pacience... I have read it 4 times already... it starts to sink in after a while...you just have to designate some time upstairs for it...:laughing: 

but seriously... great read ...IMO...:shifty::thumbup: 

B.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

See, I told you so.


The idler motor is started first and typically left running while the 3 phase motors in the shop are turned on and off as needed. *More than one motor at a time can be operated and each running motor will act as a phase converter for the others so the total horsepower running can be 2 to 3 times the idler motor horsepower.* If a manual switch is used instead of a magnetic contactor, then the push button to engage the start capacitor must be held in before the manual switch is turned on. When the idler motor starts (about 1 second or less) then the push button for the start capacitor is released.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I swear to god...you like nothing more that to shove my shortcomings up my -







,:laughing: well...I am learning as I keep reading about RPC's and speaking to reps......... start pulling it out Darce.:laughing:..and it's going to get stinky .......:laughing: 

ahhh,,
yes.... welcome to the gray area....... 

I spoke to Jay from http://www.americanrotary.com/ his ext: 101 

technically speaking- he said yes you can, but here is the rub....

EX:If you run a 5hp DC & a 5hp air compressor off a 10hp RPC- that DC is running at full load-cont - you are at the limit on the RPC and are at the MAX, however if you run that same 5hp DC ,a 5hp TS and a 5hp jointer- this is not the same load on the RPC because the TS & jointer are not running at full load-they will run at 1hp (at idle)before you start feeding lumber in it...so that leaves you with 3hp remaining for use until that load increases depending on how hard the motor is working to cut the material..and are they being used at the same time. As jay stated -"it all depends on the load of the machinery being used at the same time on the RPC"........
So there is a large gray area....so you are correct that you can run more than what the RPC is rated for ,,,,however you can't exceed the limitations on the RPC at full load, so I wasn't incorrect about that- it's a catch 22- 

well....I hope you enjoyed the shoving.....:laughing: but you just might have to pull some out cause it all depends on what your running and loads on the RPC vs time....:shifty:


shove on! :laughing: 

B,:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

How many things can I use at one time? :laughing:

I said it was all about how hard the motor is to start. 

I am looking for a 2-3hp collector, that honeyville and all the piping sold for 450 bucks. Too bad it was 6'6" tall without the barrel and bottom stand.:laughing:

I may get desperate and buy a cheap one and play shuffle the hose for a little while. Get what I want set up and sell off the little one.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I did it for a decade.

After a while, shuffle the hose becomes clean out the stuffed tablesaw.. :laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

WarnerConstInc.;1147261[I said:


> *]How many things can I use at one time? *[/i]


 
Right...right...right..... I know Darce..... just educating myself on RPC's - it's actually a very interesting mechanical & electrical combination .......I am just thinking of stepping it up a notch......:shifty: it's the German in me....:laughing: 

There was a newbie over at OWWM bashing the RPC to death.... he dislikes RPC's so much that he decided to start a thread about it...... needless to say... it's been locked... disinformation like you would not believe... http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=91816 .

hey- feelin good:thumbsup: worked in the shop today-







I am not supposed to.....:shifty:but it was talkin to me......:w00t: - it feels great!!!:thumbup: just coated the outfeed table -light duty..

on a sidenote, hope this all comes together for you soon.....:thumbup:

B,


----------



## CJ21 (Aug 11, 2007)

Nice finds.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

yea... they sure are CJ,,,,:thumbsup: 

paciently waiting for Darce to get things powered up .......play all of these at once.....:whistling

such as this-



 
and this-



 

What were you saying....:blink:- I can't hear you....:laughing:


B.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Man, that is a sweet sound, isn't it.

Once the baby goes to bed, my ass goes back to cleaning the hell hole commonly known as my garage. 

I am just glad it is only 1500 sq/ft because I could only imagine the amount of crap I would have if is was 3000 sq/ft.:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

,












B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

At least you are not eating popcorn again.:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

......."Until the pictures come!"  "can't dive in to the white fluff".... ..........









B,:shifty::laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Sorry about all the delays.

I got tied up in a couple jobs and have been trying to clean and re-arrange/organize my entire shop/garage.

I had 1400 sq/ft of mess. All those things you have laying around because some day you were going to get around to using/doing it.

Well, the time has come to do it. I had stuff leaned everywhere, more then you could imagine.

I have been clearing the walls, insulating and drywalling as I go. I had a couple windows laying around for a couple years I was going to put it. I put those in. I had a door and storm door I had been meaning to put in, well it is going in. 

I have to wire a switch and light for the back side of the garage and run my 220 line for my dust collector and then I can insulate and rock about 30 more feet of wall.

I need to build a shed/play house and see about a fence with a lean-to roof on it down the length of the back side of the garage, all 58'.


----------



## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

I guess it was one of those days for you warner, but you just reminded me about my list - 200 amp for the house and finnish my elect in the garage,& sheetrock, build shed 22x16 off the side of the garage, 110 feet of fencing ..........:sad:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I am finished for the night. All this extra crap and I am out of 12-2, need a double box, switch and outlet cover, flood light and bulbs. I want to plug that in and see how loud it is in there.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

RPC control panel was just ordered. I ran my DC circuit today, added a window and door to the back of the shop, added a new flood light by the back door and window. Still need to put the storm door on the new to me door, do a little more insulating and hang some more rock.

I may go down and drag 3 table saws home tomorrow.:whistling


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I may go down and drag 3 table saws home tomorrow.:whistling,,,,:notworthy:notworthy


Drag away!!!!!,,,,,,:laughing::notworthy AWSOME- love the rough talk ARN lingo!!!!!!!!!:clap: :notworthy:laughing:

B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I may go down and drag 3 table saws home tomorrow.:whistling,,,,:notworthy
> 
> 
> Drag away!!!!!,,,,,,:laughing::notworthy AWSOME- love the rough talk ARN lingo!!!!!!!!!:clap: :notworthy:laughing:
> ...



Hey, I got paid and I could use a couple table saws.:laughing:

Remember, the PM 66's are a 2 for 1 deal and I just felt bad for that old Unisaw. Too bad a damn motor cover will cost me twice what I would pay for the saw.:laughing:

I thought dragging was the technical term anyways.:whistling


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

definitely a successful hunt Darce:thumbsup:,,,, drag,mucker,rig,rucker... what ever it takes,,,,:laughing::laughing::thumbsup:


B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Well not quite the ones I was going for but, too good of a deal to turn down.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

NIce! ....and no details......

B,:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

When I get home I have another surprise.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Its not green WTF!!!


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I had to blow this up Lee,,, I knew I saw something...Darce is putting his "revised" makers mark on apparently..:shifty::laughing:


B.:shifty:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I can paint it if you want.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

where's the surprize.....







  





B,:shifty:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The 7.5 hp idler motor I got.

Pictures to follow, the girls are getting ready to go out and help me.

The Powermatic is a PM 66 and made in 1990, not quite an OWWM but, oh well.


----------



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> RPC control panel was just ordered. I ran my DC circuit today, added a window and door to the back of the shop, added a new flood light by the back door and window. Still need to put the storm door on the new to me door, do a little more insulating and hang some more rock.
> 
> I may go down and drag 3 table saws home tomorrow.:whistling


Have you loaded any dumpsters with your junk yet? :whistling:whistling:w00t:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm just :jesterarce,,,, can't help the joking... I'm loosing it over here... last time I hit a power switch on my machinery was when I got even with that evil Table saw.......:laughing: 

Take your time,,,,:notworthy


B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Here are a couple shots:

First is the PM 66.It is a 5hp 3ph, 52" fence, and was made in 1990.

Second is a brand new 7.5hp 3ph GE motor, part one of my RPC.

I will get somethings moved around tomorrow and start getting pictures of things set up.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Sweet Darce..that is a great cabinet saw...:thumbsup: things are starting to fall in place....:thumbup: nice motor.....

B.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I worked 12 hours Sunday and only spent a few hours in the garage over the weekend and I was sick today.

I did get a little done in the garage, I promise there will be pictures tomorrow.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

did you buy this yet? 

https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=ht...-Contractors-First-Aid-Systainer.aspx&h=144dd

I am pre-ordering the carvex. I called my local dealer today, I hope they are one of the dealers that can place an order for them.

the cordless won't be out until the fall. I am a corded man when it comes to a jigsaw.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You can put a track on it. Who the hell cuts a straight line with a jigsaw?


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Leo G said:


> You can put a track on it. Who the hell cuts a straight line with a jigsaw?


I don't care about that part. i like the radius attachment to the barrel. i've been due for a new jigsaw for years. I want to see the carvex in person, but I couldn't make it to JLC. I wonder if you can return the 30 day thing if you do the pre-order, darcy?

The bosch is also going to be used with the coping foot on it, eventually.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> You can put a track on it. Who the hell cuts a straight line with a jigsaw?


You do if you need a straight 4"+ deep cut.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> I don't care about that part. i like the radius attachment to the barrel. i've been due for a new jigsaw for years. I want to see the carvex in person, but I couldn't make it to JLC. * I wonder if you can return the 30 day thing if you do the pre-order, darcy?
> *
> The bosch is also going to be used with the coping foot on it, eventually.



Yes, that does not make a difference.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> did you buy this yet?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=ht...-Contractors-First-Aid-Systainer.aspx&h=144dd
> 
> ...


Are there supply's in that to re-attach a severed arm?:whistling:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You plan on putting your hand behind the blade again?


----------



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

90 dollar first aid kit. hmmmmmm i can build my own for alot cheaper. not sure I'd care if locks into the stack of systainers. I want a wall mounted big one for the trailer. i have a small kit in the truck. cabinet is something I'm adding on this summer.


----------



## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

Leo G said:


> You can put a track on it. Who the hell cuts a straight line with a jigsaw?





ApgarNJ said:


> I don't care about that part. i like the radius attachment to the barrel. i've been due for a new jigsaw for years. I want to see the carvex in person, but I couldn't make it to JLC. I wonder if you can return the 30 day thing if you do the pre-order, darcy?
> 
> The bosch is also going to be used with the coping foot on it, eventually.


No whistling?
I do without a track. :whistling
The splinter guard, circle cutting... Are the big things. Finish off a cut...

I missed JLC too!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> You plan on putting your hand behind the blade again?


No but, I can not be too sure of myself all the time.:whistling:laughing:

I have many machines that can eat me now.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

1st day in the shop for Darcy....


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

B,


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Whaaaaaat........


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Stop it Leo, you are freaking Brian out.:laughing:

I got 5 doors put up for the start of my wainscoting, I had a bunch of old doors that were not much good any more.
I figured I could screw them to the wall horizontally for a wainscoting, plus it helps keep the bottom of the drywall from getting beat up.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Panel doors?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Panel doors?


Yes, most 4 panels. I had to group the sizes together and break them some how. It will look kind of cool, if I ever get around to putting a cap on them and some base boards at the bottoms.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Uuuuuugleeeeeee 


:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Better then throwing them away.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

So today was really a good day.

I took the doors down, cut them up and burnt them. Turned out Leo hurt my feelings and I could not deal with it.:sad:

Progress today, I am regaining floor space and trying to move some machinery into position and get tuned up.:clap:

I was able to turn on my first piece today, my dust collector. The guy I bought it from threw in a couple extra fabric bags. 

I forgot that they were laying on it when I first turned it on an of course one fell down and got sucked into the impeller.:whistling:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Sorry about the crappy picture's, my small Sony camera takes horrible pictures. Few more:






The last one is for Leo.:furious::laughing:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You'z gonna need a lot more lighting in that place.

That fairy is gonna kick your azz.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> You'z gonna need a lot more lighting in that place.
> 
> That fairy is gonna kick your azz.



What I need is a ceiling but, that will have to wait a while.

I said the exact same thing about the lighting when we started moving stuff around tonight.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Think T8 or T5. A bunch of 48" 2 tube fixtures will light that place up well. I have a few T8 shoplights I got from the orange borg for about $20 ea that work very well and will start as cold as zero degrees and become flicker free in less than a minute. Quiet too. That means more electrical too.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

your going to have a real nice shop there Darce....coming together,,:thumbsup:

On a side note I have seen that same fairy flying around here on CT on various threads ,,,, who is the fairy....:blink: it looks like a mans face........:blink: am I missing something,,,,,:blink:



B,


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That's my ugly mug Brian. Gus's son was so kind as to steal my mug and put it on that transvestite fairy body. Remind me when I go out to Kali to smack Gus upside the head.:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

get out----- it looks real :w00t:- your freekin me out lee,,,,,,First the wrist cut off pic,,and then you buzzing around in a fairy suit.... I don't know what to think anymore......





B,:laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

His legs look great in the picture, don't they?:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:laughing:.......:w00t:





B,


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Sawdust fairy. Put a board under your pillow and I will come by late at night while you are asleep and bash you over the head with it. :w00t:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Sawdust fairy. Put a board under your pillow and I will come by late at night while you are asleep and bash you over the head with it. :w00t:



:laughing::laughing::laughing:

You going to leave me a dollar too?:whistling


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

.....


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> You going to leave me a dollar too?:whistling


Hell, after I render you unconscious I'm gonna quaff your wallet. :whistling





:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Hell, after I render you unconscious I'm gonna quaff your wallet. :whistling
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey, you leave my old lady out of this.....:shifty::laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

She's ready to pop. I want nothing to do with her.?/\/\<><>


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So how are you running the power to your machines Darce, overhead? 

B,


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Fairy power


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:laughing:- is that where you come into the scene Lee,,,,,:laughing::laughing::laughing:


B,


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

yea,

I wouldn't put a PF on the TS Darce.....Lee is right. Unless you plan on doing repetitive cuts day after day.... I can't see it being of any use and it will get in the way. Shaper- yes.... but the TS-:blink::no: 

B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

All I plan on doing with that saw is ripping lumber.

I seriously doubt that a sheet good will pass across that table saw.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

That may be your thoughts now Darce but I can see that getting in the way-honestly. I am assuming you will be using the rail system you have to sheet goods now, but you may change your mind since you have that nice Cabinet saw now.... 
So I read you had the 7.5 3/ph started, did you use the rope method to get it up and running? 

B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> So I read you had the 7.5 3/ph started, did you use the rope method to get it up and running?
> 
> B,



The only thing I got started was the DC. Then it ate one of the bags.:whistling

I was going to go work today but, I still have a horrible sore throat.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah Brian, I will break down sheet goods with my TS-55. Way easier on me then man handling them through a table saw by myself.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I don't think so. For cuts like 94" sure, but normal 24x34 1/2" cuts for lowers and other cabinet stuff - no way. Too slow.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> I don't think so. For cuts like 94" sure, but normal 24x34 1/2" cuts for lowers and other cabinet stuff - no way. Too slow.


I said break down. I will probably do a final dimensioning on the small parts with the table saw. 

I will not run a full sheet through it though. The TS-55 lets me stack and cut several sheets at a time too.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That is how I break down sheets. Pick it up rip it at 24" and then the sliding sled with an outfeed helper and cut to size. Easy Peasy.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Idler motor is going back. I need to get a 10hp or a high efficiency 15hp.

I had a long conversation with the company that I am getting my control panel from and he said that a 15hp high efficiency would cost me the same to run as the 7.5hp I got.

Damn it!!


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So your getting a 15hp now???? 
Word to the wise: You better check the AMP on the breaker for your 220 line vs what's stamped on the spec badge on the motor your buying Darce....and also the Ga of wire that your running, or what Ga wire is currently there to make sure your not tipping the scale.....if your amperage draw is to much.. you could have trips - or worse..........

B,


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Leo G said:


> That is how I break down sheets. Pick it up rip it at 24" and then the sliding sled with an outfeed helper and cut to size. Easy Peasy.


 
:notworthy I totally agree Lee... it is a piece of cake with the outfeed table Darce...you'll see....:shifty:


B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Exchanged the 7.5 for a 10 hp. Cost me a little gas, a little time and 20 more bucks.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

just watch your amp factor Darce......


B,:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It will run off a 40 amp circuit.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

You think you have problems...welcome to the "Prestige Pig Shop". I went in the shop today,,, started to try and get things a little organized...and I thought I would try to move the lathe a little further down,,,,, ah.... not happening. I am still worried about my finger.. getting it dirty.. start an infection.... ahhhh,, it's not worth it....meanwhile my shop in disarray , at best,,,, and it's making me sick that I can't work on it yet.....

So I have been going in there almost every day...start putzing around thinking ,

" I can't do that" ,ah,, "and I can't do that",,, "but wait" ,ahhh- "no- I can't do that either"  " 

walking back out,slamming the door, and getting absolutely nothing accomplished and then I come back here and start talking with you guys,,, it's like ground hogs day every day here... I have been doing the same thing day in and day out for 5 weeks....I'm loosin it!!!!!:w00t: I did sell some projects though-:shifty:

And what kills me is I need to get the shop done before I can start my next project.....ahhhhhhhh 2 weeks ago "the move" ,,, my plans were kiboshed because of weather , but mostly because of me, I need to fabricate/weld some wheel bases for the jointer & band saw... so that's what my brother is going to do for me...:thumbsup: hopefully this weekend to at least get that done...well see,,,,don't hold your breath...

So .Anyways.....
I share you frustration, maybe for not the same reason, but delays none the less..... it sucks! :shifty: 

B,:notworthy


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

the line is seperate from the DC and on it's own circut/w breaker at the box.?


B


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> the line is seperate from the DC and on it's own circut/w breaker at the box.?
> 
> 
> B


For the RPC?

The DC has it's own 30 amp 220 volt circuit. The DC motor is a single phase.

The RPC will have it's own 40 or 50 amp circuit that will be about 15' of #6 or #8 wire.

I think I am going to cobble together an enclosure so I can set the Idler outside the shop.


Yes Brian, your place is a mess.:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Here is the guy building my RPC control panel: http://elimiaindustrial.com/

Talked to him a few times today and he helped me understand why I should go with a 10hp. 

He also refunded my $$ for the 7.5hp panel and split the difference in cost between the 7.5 and 10hp.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Darce.... 



"Shut ....your dam cakehole" .:whistling





 

B,:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Nice unit, I was looking at the 10hp,, is that one your getting...?

B.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Nice unit, I was looking at the 10hp,, is that one your getting...?
> 
> B.


Yup, the 10hp control panel. 

He backs it with a 10 year warranty on all the components, and provides a nice wiring diagram and good customer service over the phone.

I will do a better review of it when it shows up next week.:clap:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So where did we leave this ....I have plenty of..  

So... do you have to get that engineering instrument out and put this together......




B,:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I am still getting some of the stragglers out of the shop.

Right now there are 4 complete wall mount tank toilets sitting in my living room as they make there way to my basement.

I am trying to figure out what my options are on a 3 phase distribution panel and making a list for some surplus breakers.

My control panel is going to ship out on monday and should be here on Wednesday or Thursday.

Plus I have been annoying my electrician to death. 

I have to put up a small wall rack to store my trim collection on and I am trying to figure out if I want to store my lumber there too or make a rack in another location.

Tomorrow I have to go sand some metal railings and fix some drywall cracks. I am taking my assistant with me, who just happens to be my 5 year old daughter.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Things are moving around and I finished regaining the last bit of floor space that I had to clean up.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

B.:shifty::laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Still cleaning and organizing. I have 5 days to finish things in the house before baby #3 shows up.

I think I have finally located a place for my table saw, now to figure out the planer, jointer and shaper.

RPC control panel is supposed to show up tomorrow, I will be posting some pictures of that.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The jointer goes to the left of the saw. The rotation of the cutter head should be the opposite of the sawblade rotation. The center of the jointer at the start of the tablesaw. Make it about 5' away. The planer goes to the left of the jointer, the rotation of the cutterhead should be the same as the tablesaw and opposite of the jointer.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> The jointer goes to the left of the saw. The rotation of the cutter head should be the opposite of the sawblade rotation. The center of the jointer at the start of the tablesaw. Make it about 5' away. The planer goes to the left of the jointer, the rotation of the cutterhead should be the same as the tablesaw and opposite of the jointer.



That makes them all in a row for the most part.
If I want to be able to cut 12' lengths I have to set my tools length wise in the space. Garage is 26' deep and 59' long.

The 26' way would limit my lengths unless I opened garage doors. I don't want to have to open a door to preform a task.

Setting it up like that Leo, while trying to take advantage of space behind the saw for an outfeed table/work surface that would multitask as a work surface as well.

I don't want to leave a big empty space if I don't have too.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

My shop is 25' wide


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I see that I am going to need to make a couple lumber carts now too.

I can set them up like that. My DC would be just to the right of the TS and about 5' short, along the wall.

ok, I think I can deal with that and still be able to use the garage door on that end.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

It makes for good work flow. The jointer is a good center when you are using solid stock if you don't have a straight line rip saw. I buy my stock either in the rough or skip planed so I need to face it. 

So you rough cut it to length, bring it over to the jointer. Face the stock. At this point you can usually tell the way the grain is going in the wood so you don't mill against the grain. You face it and put it on your cart so the orientation is the same as it came off the jointer. You push the cart to the planer and insert the wood into the planer without the need to reorientate the wood. You flip the board over end over end and put them on a cart. The you put the wood through the planer once again to final thickness without the need to reorientate the wood. Push the cart back to the jointer and square the edge, make a 180 and push the board through the tablesaw so you don't have to put it down and pick it back up again. You have your stock flattened, jointed and sized to width. Only thing left is cut to length. I do this on the TS also using a sled.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I am going to be using RS and skipped planed for the first project I have.

I will also be doing a bit of hose shuffling for little while, I can't afford to set up hard lines yet.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

..........:whistling





B,:shifty:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Whatta you whistling about now Brian???? :whistling


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

,,,,,,,,,nothing....:whistling:laughing: notice anything new....:whistling:laughing:









B,:thumbsup::laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

As promised, the RPC panel has arrived.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:thumbup: COOL!!!!!!!







So are you assembling the power plant this weekend Darce? 





B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> :thumbup: COOL!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, going to get the Mr. Juicer hooked up to the Flux Capacitor.:laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo got that Moak.:whistling:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Get the damn thing out of the doorway Brian.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

B,:shifty::jester:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

On a serious note Lee... I couldn't set my shop up like that..I would like to but it's not feasible. The TS is in the middle... and everything else is on the outside walls... you and Darce have the room to have options......I don't so I have to have most of my machines on HD Castor's. I am taking the Castor's off the Lathe but the jointer and both BS's are getting Castor's If I need to pull them out... I like your set up.....and the reasoning behind it.. :thumbsup: 






B,:thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Always a road block.

I wanted to get the RPC juiced up tonight but, I refuse to pay what they want for #6 wire at HD.

I will have to go to the supply house in the morning.

I will also have to re-think where I was going to install the RPC panel and 3 phase panel.

The #6 wire will cost me a fortune, #6 stranded to feed the panel is cheaper then running a long run of #6 NM.

Grrrrrrrr.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

What did they want per ft$? what is the total length?











B,


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Leo - nice shop :thumbsup:

It would be a really nice shop if you PRIMED THE DRYWALL


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> What did they want per ft$? what is the total length?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where I wanted to put it, is about a 40' run from the main Panel to the RPC panel. That would have cost me 140.00 bucks at the home despair.

I will hit the supply house tomorrow to figure out my options.

If it stays close the main panel, I will have to buy myself the remote off/on control for it.:laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

katoman said:


> Leo - nice shop :thumbsup:
> 
> It would be a really nice shop if you PRIMED THE DRYWALL



It is not his drywall, therefore Leo would never do such a thing.:whistling:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

There is about 3000 sq ft of sheetrock. It is not mine and now that the shop is full there ain't a chance in hell it's happening.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I can fix the paint problem.....:whistling the picture, that is......:whistling:laughing: 


I planted the Moak in Lee's shop.....:sneaky2::laughing: not the greatest... what you want... I did it with paint...:laughing:

B,:jester::shutup::laughing:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Leo G said:


> There is about 3000 sq ft of sheetrock. It is not mine and now that the shop is full there ain't a chance in hell it's happening.


WHAT :w00t: Just get the spray gun out.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Went on a little road trip today to Toledo, Ohio for a hunting trip.
> 
> What was I hunting? Well, old cast iron wood working machinery.
> 
> I bought an Oliver 144-8D, 8" jointer and much to my surprise, as I thought it was already sold, a 18" Delta Wedge bed planer.


at school we have the same ones i think, i was using them today:whistling, they look the same atleast


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> That would have cost me 140.00 bucks at the home despair.


I'd eat my hat if you saved that much more at a supplier...for 40 feet that is.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> I'd eat my hat if you saved that much more at a supplier...for 40 feet that is.


I will let you know.:whistling


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I moved the table saw to where I am pretty sure it will go.

I moved the jointer beside the table saw, leaving 4' between them.

I wrestled the planer over by the jointer and decided to get it close to the opposite wall of the table saw, due to the giant motor that hangs off the side of it. 

I am not real sure how I feel about it. I will keep fiddling with it tomorrow and take some pictures. 

I guess I need to get to the point of just trying it and see what I think.

I have not found a spot for the shaper yet. I dont think I need more then about 9' of infeed and outfeed for it.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Shapers go up against the wall. If you have a few of them you put them on wheels and pull the one you are using out 2' and it clears all the others.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Shapers go up against the wall. If you have a few of them you put them on wheels and pull the one you are using out 2' and it clears all the others.



That is the problem, I am out of wall space. 

The one whole long side of the garage, 59', is all garage doors for the most part. I dont want to block the one's at each end but, I guess I can deal with blocking the 16' in the middle.

Maybe I put the DC in the wrong place.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

Wheels!
:laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't really want to keep anything on wheels. It would give me too much temptation to move stuff all the time.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

All my stuff is on wheels and it basically stays put. But it is very nice to be able to push down on a lever and move the machine easily. Do it, do it, do it......


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> So did you test it out Darce...?
> ...


I really wanted to hook up something and turn it on but, I want to wire up my machines the right way first before I try and do some work.

I may have to push the jointer over there and wire it in the panel just to see.

I may be having that kid today too. Went back to the hospital at 5 am. She had contractions all night and did not sleep.

We are waiting on the surgeon to get done with church ( total BS if you ask me, which they did I told them)

Need to get my shaper flipped back over too, it is now 100% complete.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Darce...
I hope all goes well with the wife and the baby....:notworthy:thumbsup: Sometimes "timing" doesn't always work in our favour.... I am sure your wife and you will be relieved when the delivery is over....:thumbsup: 


B,:thumbsup:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Apparently Mother Nature thinks the cooking has been completed.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Lee,
You definitely have a way with words.....:notworthy:laughing::laughing::thumbsup: I am glad that part is over for you and your wife Darce - Cheers.,..:thumbsup: now the next "phase" begins....- whoops....bad choice of words...:notworthy:laughing: I meant stage.... ahhhhhhh,,,,,,


B,:shifty:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I just got to get the 3 phases to them.:whistling:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You got 3 kids now, one to hold each phase. :w00t:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I was able to get some good progress done this week even with a pesky new-born.:whistling:laughing:

I am putting the finishing touches on my out-feed table, buttoning up my shaper and just getting some of my Festool's set up
at a work station. Hopefully I will have some 3 phase breakers and a panel show up this weekend, for almost nothing.:clap:

I will take some pictures tonight and get them up.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I was able to get some good progress done this week even with a pesky new-born.:whistling:laughing:
> 
> I am putting the finishing touches on my out-feed table, buttoning up my shaper and just getting some of my Festool's set up
> at a work station. Hopefully I will have some 3 phase breakers and a panel show up this weekend, for almost nothing.:clap:
> ...


So what's all the work for?

Are you transitioning from remodeling to millwork and cabinetmaking?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

CookeCarpentry said:


> So what's all the work for?
> 
> Are you transitioning from remodeling to millwork and cabinetmaking?


Pretty much, at least setting myself up so I can try and focus on just custom one-off things that are hard to find.

There is no one left in my town that is reliable to do this kind of work.

I sold some custom reclaimed oak railing inserts, some custom case work, a bar, a couple stand alone pieces and there are quite a few things on the horizon that should come to fruition. 

Plus, I really don't want to tear anything apart anymore. I hate demo work.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Didn't get as much done as I wanted to but, getting closer.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I swear I will never be done cleaning and organizing.

Planer is now set in it's position, I moved the jointer around a little and got it where I want it. Made a bigger space between it and the table saw.

I wanted to take pictures but, not until it looks like less of a mess.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Well!!!!!
"I'm trying to picture that in my head..... " "now the planner is there..." ....."and the jointer has been moved around a little bit over there...." ........... "it's becoming more visual as I concentrate",,,,,,,,"but still blury.... "




B.:shifty::laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Well!!!!!
> "I'm trying to picture that in my head..... " "now the planner is there..." ....."and the jointer has been moved around a little bit over there...." ........... "it's becoming more visual as I concentrate",,,,,,,,"but still blury.... "
> 
> 
> ...



I am going to send you an extra special picture.

By the way, I really don't think I like that fence on that table saw.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Take the damn pictures. My shop is probably messier than yours on its "clean days"


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I am going to send you an extra special picture.
> 
> By the way, I really don't think I like that fence on that table saw.


What fence?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Why?:blink: whats up?:blink:

B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The stupid Beismeyer one.

Tomorrow I will take some pictures. I spent a good part of the day fixing rotten garage door trim and a couple rotten studs.

All that for 6' more finished wall space, which is where my planer was going.

I am ordering some UHMW for the faces but I am having issues figuring out how to mount a vertical feather board on it.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

What do you need the featherboard for?


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The stupid Beismeyer one.
> 
> Tomorrow I will take some pictures. I spent a good part of the day fixing rotten garage door trim and a couple rotten studs.
> 
> ...


Is that what you're talking about?
I must be missing something on the feather board. Buy a benchdog featherboard, router out with a t-bit (or whatever it's called keyhole...), and maybe If you're feeling really ambitious then put in a t-channel. 
They sell all that stuff at Rockler and other places.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> What do you need the featherboard for?


To hold down a bunch of 1 7/16" rips I will have to make.

I am getting this to replace the plywood and laminate faced, fence faces:

http://www.ptreeusa.com/uhmwproducts.htm


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm not familiar with your fence, but if it was a solid material like cast. Make a stationary hole with a titanium drill bit and use a t-nut set up.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

William James said:


> Is that what you're talking about?
> I must be missing something on the feather board. Buy a benchdog featherboard, router out with a t-bit (or whatever it's called keyhole...), and maybe If you're feeling really ambitious then put in a t-channel.
> They sell all that stuff at Rockler and other places.



I was thinking I was going to have to put a t-track in the uhmw so I can mount something like that.

I am replacing the old beat up fence faces on my 54" beismeyer fence on my pm66.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I just use the man clamps, my hands. If I need a featherboard it is usually to keep stock up against the fence, so it is clamped down to the table.

But you are correct, if you want a table hold down, the beisemeyer fence isn't going to do it for you unless you use a hold down on the far end.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> I just use the man clamps, my hands. If I need a featherboard it is usually to keep stock up against the fence, so it is clamped down to the table.
> 
> But you are correct, if you want a table hold down, the beisemeyer fence isn't going to do it for you unless you use a hold down on the far end.


I have to make a couple hundred rips in old oak, 1 1/4" thick just over 1 1/4" wide. I just wanted to set the fence to the right of the blade and put boards through it. 

I guess it is just me and a push stick.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I swear I will never be done cleaning and organizing.


Of course not, you've got 3 kids!!!
And a wife! Everythings going to take 5x as long. :whistling



WarnerConstInc. said:


> I was thinking I was going to have to put a t-track in the uhmw so I can mount something like that.
> 
> I am replacing the old beat up fence faces on my 54" beismeyer fence on my pm66.


You lost me with the letters and numbers. 
:whistling 
:thumbsup:


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

If you don't like my ideas. You can make your own and clamp it to the fence (as Neo suggested). 
:whistling

About the, um t-track, :jester:


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I have to make a couple hundred rips in old oak, 1 1/4" thick just over 1 1/4" wide. I just wanted to set the fence to the right of the blade and put boards through it.
> 
> I guess it is just me and a push stick.


Bolt on a power feeder? I would think you'd have to remove a wheel to get it to work on narrow stock.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

J.C. said:


> Bolt on a power feeder? I would think you'd have to remove a wheel to get it to work on narrow stock.



Feeders are on my wish list for right now.

I want a couple but, I need to get these things working and making money.

Right now they are more like a hole that I am throwing money into.:whistling


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Right now they are more like a hole that I am throwing money into.:whistling


Yeah, at times, it seems like a lot of things are like that. :blink:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Don't get discouraged Darce.... you'll be a happy saw dust maker when it all finally comes together... :thumbsup: IMPO... I would see where the "production" side goes before you start mounting a feeder on that TS. The Shaper... that makes a lot more sense-:thumbup: 


B,:thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I got most of my conduit run yesterday and I am going to go get some ducting for my DC today.


----------



## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Don't get discouraged Darce.... you'll be a happy saw dust maker when it all finally comes together... :thumbsup: IMPO... I would see where the "production" side goes before you start mounting a feeder on that TS. The Shaper... that makes a lot more sense-:thumbup:
> 
> 
> B,:thumbsup:


I didn't mean to buy a feeder just to leave mounted on the TS. If he had one on his shaper he could just mount it onto the table saw for a couple hours to get everything ripped. Once you have the holes drilled and tapped, it's not too hard to get it swapped over. It can save a lot a work.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

That's it, it is all for sale.:furious::whistling


----------



## avguy (Feb 8, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> That's it, it is all for sale.:furious::whistling


I'll give you $10 US.
:clap:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> That's it, it is all for sale.:furious::whistling


What...did....you....do.:blink:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

avguy said:


> I'll give you $10 US.
> :clap:



Shipping will be about 10k though.:whistling


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> What...did....you....do.:blink:



I am tired of working on it. Tired of setting up stuff, running conduit, ordering parts, laying out my duct work, working on something I still can't use.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Well you can't use it until you finish working on it.


<DUH>


----------



## avguy (Feb 8, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Shipping will be about 10k though.:whistling


I'll bring my own truck and fork.
Your shipping quote seems a bit high.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Well you can't use it until you finish working on it.
> 
> 
> <DUH>



I am just tired of it. 

I want to do it the right way so I don't I have to keep messing with it and redoing it. 

Plus I know how I am.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I finally got to turn on my shaper for the first time last night. 
It is 70 years old and purrs like a kitten.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Has your wife given you permission to talk again? :laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Not yet.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I don't think she ever will.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I need to get my DC hooked up, that jointer makes a pile of sawdust in a hurry.:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Oh,,, Easters over........:sneaky2: now , where were we,,,,,:whistling











B,:shifty::laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, the pile was not quite that big.:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

where's the video of the 144 having lunch on some sorry ass piece of mishapped wood.........







. 

B,:shifty::laughing:


----------



## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

nice, i like to make saw dust, i think i would just shred wood for days and days:w00t:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I am not ready for a video yet. I need to get everything set up a working right before I take a video Brian. I am too self conscious.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I will be installing the dust collection piping tomorrow.

Have to order two more blast gates and a section of 4" hose for the TS.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

5" hose with a 5"-4" reducer would be better.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> 5" hose with a 5"-4" reducer would be better.


I can do that then.

Everything else will be hard piped in 6" 26ga. metal ducts.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

4" is very restrictive.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

4" restrictive????? :blink:
Lee,
I am using 4" to my "dial in a dust chute" and I am getting very good draw from it(1600cfpm unit). I run my planner and there is no dust, nothing. There is a formula out there for DC systems and if you go to large and long with the main feed you start to loose your draw according to the amount of CFPM. 
I helped tare down the DC pipes over at intershape with John Hulley- what a mess! He was running 6" on the mains , the amount of dust and debris sitting in the duct work was bad. There was about 1-1/2 of saw dust laying in there on the above main feeds, Dave was kind of shocked to say the least so I think his unit was a little underpowered at 2200CFPM for the way he had it set up. 

What's with the imaginary saw avatar????:blink: 

B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

From what I have read, it seems 6" is about the best for a small DC set up.

My main trunk line is about 40' total and I will have several blast gates to isolate each machine. There isn't much price difference between the 6" 26ga and the 4".

I will have under 300 bucks in all the 6" fittings, pipe, 5" flex and the extra couple blast gates. I don't see a good reason to reduce the 6" inlet on my DC to a 4" for my main trunk. My planer and jointer have 6" outlets on them anyways.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

As long as it works good Darce, My unit came with a 6" directly from the turbine unit with a reducer to 4" and that was right form the factory...


B, no emotioncons....:sad:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> As long as it works good Darce, My unit came with a 6" directly from the turbine unit with a reducer to 4" and that was right form the factory...
> 
> 
> B, no emotioncons....:sad:


Mine has the 6" piece that has 3 4" inlets on it that fits into the 6" bell opening.

Says in the manual you can hook 3 4" hoses up or run a 6" trunk line with it. I may look at 6" pvc since I keep reading it flows better since it is so smooth. I might blow up though.:whistling:laughing:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You want to maintain 4000 ft/min in all trunks. 4" will only allow 350 CFM, most planers require 500 CFM. Go here

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/staticcalc.xls

You need Excel.

This is Bil Pentz's work pad for getting the right amount of CFM to your ports.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

PrestigeR&D said:


> What's with the imaginary saw avatar????:blink:
> 
> B,



The new site won't support my old Avatar with was my moving saw.

I am not a happy camper.


----------



## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Leo G said:


> The new site won't support my old Avatar with was my moving saw.
> 
> I am not a happy camper.



nice :laughing:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Darcy is in an awesome mood today.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Darcy is in an awesome mood today.


Awesome Leo.:laughing:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Like, totally :thumbup:





:laughing:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Darcy has suckage!!! :clap:

He has hooked up his planer, jointer and tablesaw to his collector. 

'Bout frik'n time.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Darcy has suckage!!! :clap:
> 
> He has hooked up his planer, jointer and tablesaw to his collector.
> 
> 'Bout frik'n time.



Major suckage.

It is awesome!!


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:thumbsup:


Now start making some money with it , :shifty::laughing: 



I'll tell you what really "Sucks" No more emoticons :sad:... speaking of sucking......





B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Now start making some money with it , :shifty::laughing:
> ...



I suppose it is about time for pictures and a video tour now, huh?:whistling


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:thumbsup:




B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

All I can say is, dust collection is AWESOME!!


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

Congratulations. :thumbup: Did you get to start making anything with them yet?


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

Are you going to refer to your dust collector as Mega Maid? 





:laughing:


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I suppose it is about time for pictures and a video tour now, huh?:whistling


lets start the shop video tour thread:thumbsup:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

.............:thumbup: 





 


B,:shifty:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I took pictures.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/my-almost-done-shop-97992/


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Good lord, I need to hire someone to empty the bags on my dust collector.

The horse's at mom's house will be happy.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I like my cyclone. It has a canister with wheels. I roll it about 50' and dump it in the back into the mulch piles. Ready for another 55 gallons of dust.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Small video tour:


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## DrewD (Jun 10, 2007)

Wow, hilarious commentary "cold beer, there's jesus". Just before you said it's a mess I was thinking it.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Music to my ears...... Awesome Darce.:thumbup::clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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