# Backcharging!



## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

My painter is pissing me off. 
He tells me he's the best painter around and he charges like he is.
I pay this guy $1.50 a ft more than I'd have to pay any other painter. So you'd think he'd take care of me. You'd think the work would be perfect. You'd think he'd always be there on time and never miss a deadline. Right?

Well the truth is the opposite. He's always late, I give this guy 2 weeks notice and he'll milk a job forever. Takes an eternity to do 2-tone! he tries to talk me into letting people move in and THEN he'll do the touch up (cause he's slow as hell). He loves to tell me how good he is and in his defense he does put 2-3 Coates of finish on. 
Anyway- this house I'm on now, he sent guys he had just hired and they massacred it. I mean runs everywhere, overspray all over, paint all over the hardwood floor and tile, complete abortion. These HOs were supposed to move in tomorrow. Painter is on a another job (park service work that pays better) and sent same crew of retards today to try and fix what they did last 5 days. This is a 1600 ft house and there been on it about 7 days now. I've put about a roll of tape on the wall marking spots for fixing. 

So what's an appropriate amount to fine for each day beyond deadline? I was thinking $250


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Wow, sounds like a DB.

What was your arrangement with him as far as a finish date?
Have you "spoken" with him about the urgency?
How has he done on previous jobs?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, especially if there is a balance due.


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

He's a good guy, I'd even say we're friends but he has an inflated sense of his worth for sure. 
His eyes are filled with dollar signs from this park work and I'm tired of paying for "A" and getting "B" or C 
I fired my last painter for less than this.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Ninjaframer said:


> He's a good guy, I'd even say we're friends but he has an inflated sense of his worth for sure.
> His eyes are filled with dollar signs from this park work and I'm tired of paying for "A" and getting "B" or C
> I fired my last painter for less than this.


Time for the Ninja to get "nasty" with him then.

Backcharging someone is akin to punching them in the face unless they really really deserve it and have been warned.

Sounds like you need to make a strong phone call tomorrow.


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Wow, sounds like a DB. What was your arrangement with him as far as a finish date? Have you "spoken" with him about the urgency? How has he done on previous jobs? The squeaky wheel gets the grease, especially if there is a balance due.


I told him what his window was with plenty of notice, I explained the need to finish because of the closing date, He's do a a good quality job but I wouldn't call it perfect (he would).

Problem is I'm a nice guy and don't fly off over mistakes so I take a backseat to others that do. Even though I pay better than anyone else- half up front, remainder day they finish. No one ever waits to get paid from me.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Ninjaframer said:


> He's a good guy, I'd even say we're friends but he has an inflated sense of his worth for sure.
> His eyes are filled with dollar signs from this park work and I'm tired of paying for "A" and getting "B" or C
> I fired my last painter for less than this.


I hear you. The first couple years I used the current painter I used rolls of blue tape and stood on his neck day in and day out. Now he does me right, but I have to ride him like a green bronc to get the jobs finished on time. Its a constant battle. 

We have one in house guy who does cabinet finishes and touch up on big jobs and paints the little jobs. I cant imagine having to sub a small addition or remodel.


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Time for the Ninja to get "nasty" with him then. Backcharging someone is akin to punching them in the face unless they really really deserve it and have been warned. Sounds like you need to make a strong phone call tomorrow.


I have pretty much decided I'm going elsewhere for my painting. I have one more house he has to do- he's friends with the HOs but after that I'm switching to the amigos a friend/ fellow contractor recommended. He stresses me out more than any other sub, delays every project, I can't take it anymore.


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

Jaws said:


> I hear you. The first couple years I used the current painter I used rolls of blue tape and stood on his neck day in and day out. Now he does me right, but I have to ride him like a green bronc to get the jobs finished on time. Its a constant battle. We have one in house guy who does cabinet finishes and touch up on big jobs and paints the little jobs. I cant imagine having to sub a small addition or remodel.


Exactly! 
I have Saddle sores from riding this guy. I've had to stay at the job till 1am or later to make sure he finishes so the HO's can move in the next day on most every house he paints


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

That sucks...painters can make or break a job. I would definitely have a honest conversation as to why your changing painters with him and then still charge him.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Nate,

What you are describing is liquidated damages.

Unless these are called out in your contract it is doubtful you will get them.

Back charges are actual costs or compensation for damages that you can document via, liquidated damages charged to you, bills for repair or re-doing documented unsatisfactory work.

Ends up being a fuster cluck.......

Take a breath & work through it.....

This ain't nothing compared to a 2.5m city hall job...:whistling:laughing:


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

No but it's frustrating none the less 
I guess what's so frustrating is that we're talking about little POS 1600 ft freakin houses! I mean WTF! Just paint the shiz!


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Ninjaframer said:


> No but it's frustrating none the less
> I guess what's so frustrating is that we're talking about little POS 1600 ft freakin houses! I mean WTF! Just paint the shiz!



Yes sir.....

But all the client wants, no matter what money or size job is involved, is to be finished on time and on budget.....

I'm more of a magician than a Contractor with the number of rabbits I've pulled out of a hat....


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Ninjaframer said:


> we're talking about little POS 1600 ft freakin houses!


No, 1600 sq ft palaces that WILL be done on time. 

Ride that painter like Zoro.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Jaws said:


> No, 1600 sq ft palaces that WILL be done on time.
> 
> *Ride that painter like Zoro*.


Heck no... notice I did not type around the filters....:laughing:

ride that painter like a Brahma Bull, make him sweat and get the gold buckle....:thumbup::thumbsup:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

griz said:


> Heck no... notice I did not type around the filters....:laughing:
> 
> ride that painter like a Brahma Bull, make him sweat and get the gold buckle....:thumbup::thumbsup:


Them dang filters....:whistling:laughing::no:


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

pay him in full and then fire him....i wouldnt take any $$ away....it will give you a reputation in the industry....i keep track of problem GC's from stories i hear....even if theres another side to the story he will be spreading his version to everyone


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## MSLiechty (Sep 13, 2010)

griz said:


> Nate,
> 
> What you are describing is liquidated damages.
> 
> ...



we regularly work on $2500/ day LQ's It requires riding my guys like a bike sometimes!


ML


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Dont $hi on the painter until the last job is done. He may not show up or cause further heart ache. Then nothing, wait til he calls you looking for work and then tell him what you think.

If hes one of those guys who only have enough cash for the next week you might tell him every day hes late you will pay him a week later.


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

Ninjaframer said:


> My painter is pissing me off.
> He tells me he's the best painter around and he charges like he is.
> I pay this guy $1.50 a ft more than I'd have to pay any other painter. So you'd think he'd take care of me. You'd think the work would be perfect. You'd think he'd always be there on time and never miss a deadline. Right?
> 
> ...


As others have said, I think its best to pay him in full and move on. 

Do you give him any other notice than the 2 weeks? Maybe a heads up at a month out would help him be able to schedule your jobs better. Everybody is very busy here and I am scheduling subs 4-5 weeks out for remodeling jobs.

Do you still have to get the electric and mech subs in to do final or does the painter have to remove light fixtures, hvac grills, switch covers, etc?


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Shows up late
Pushes the deadline to the extreme last second
Cost way more than competition
Inflated ego

Time to shop him out and let him know you are very serious about replacing him if he doesn't get his act together.


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