# TPO roof looks bad



## Sam60 (Apr 29, 2006)

Ok so I needed a new roof on a small rental home I also own. Decided to contract this out since had a 16' x 16' low slope addition. About 12-2 pitch.
I really should have taken the time and just raised it to the correct pitch and shingle. To much going on at the time, so went with the recommendation or a roofer I have used before.

Rest of the roof job looks good. But the white TPO looks like crap even if you cant really see it from the ground.
Has on bubble in it that's about 3" by 36" and they installed over the old shingles. Is this even allowed?

Will meet with them Monday but want to know where I stand.
Rest of the shingled roof was stripped. This low area was about 12 years old and was 3 tab shingles over full ice and water shield. 

Thanks for suggestions


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Depends on whether you agreed to a layover or not. Also depends on whether the roof 1.had trapped moisture
2. if the roofer used a recovery board or any thing between the tpo and the shingles
3. Whether the roof was mechanically fastened or fully adhered. 

Personally I wouldn't lay tpo over shingles...i really don't like to layover at all because if it needs a new roof, it needs a new roof.

But a 3x36 bubble is hardly anything to fret over. The tpo will lay down. Sometimes the glue causes gassing and bubbles appear. They go away. 

Can you upload a picture? I want to see how they terminated it too on the edge.


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## Sam60 (Apr 29, 2006)

madrina said:


> Depends on whether you agreed to a layover or not. Also depends on whether the roof 1.had trapped moisture
> 2. if the roofer used a recovery board or any thing between the tpo and the shingles
> 3. Whether the roof was mechanically fastened or fully adhered.
> 
> ...




Did ask for a complete tear off. Also asked for and expected a contract before work started. A week later I call and leave a message after not receiving. Two days later I get a call they are on the job and already started. But I do have a receipt that said tear off.

What they did was glue directly over the 3 tabs. That is what looks like crap. Nothing between the shingles and TPO.

Edges do look good. Looks like they wrapped it over the edges and used about a 3" x 3" metal trim. 

I did call and they said they install it that way when people want to save some money. I explained what does that have to do with me. I asked for a complete tear off and a good job. Did not question the price. They gave a quote and I just agreed and said get it done as soon as possible. And to fax me a contract.

We will see what happens. But I am now wishing I had taken a day off from another Job I had going at the time. Then done the framing and sheathing to just raise the roof pitch.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

No contract = no pay...their fault for starting work without it....

How do you know there legit? Did you get copies of other paperwork (ins,comp...)

What are they gonna do, sue ya? Use the $$$ as the proverbial carrot to make them make it right. Don't pay for crap work.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Are you saying they folded the edges over and put an L-shaped metal Edge on? Does the metal go on top of the TPO or does the TPO go on top of the metal on the flat part? Also how did they secure the metal Edge and where are the fasteners?


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## Sam60 (Apr 29, 2006)

madrina said:


> Are you saying they folded the edges over and put an L-shaped metal Edge on? Does the metal go on top of the TPO or does the TPO go on top of the metal on the flat part? Also how did they secure the metal Edge and where are the fasteners?


Another look from the ground and the edging does look like more like a composite or fiberglass so not metal. 


Looks to be glued to the roof and the other side is attached to the rake board with steel white painted hex screws. Wished they had of at least used a painted stainless screw.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Can you take some pictures


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## Sam60 (Apr 29, 2006)

madrina said:


> Can you take some pictures


Have attached some pics after they came back out. I was not there at the time but guessing they did strip the old 3 tabs. But hard to tell.
But now has some type of backer board. I can tell by the large washer nails.

This site had a problem with my pics so click on link below
Thanks

http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/rayh781/library/


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Honestly, I really can't tell much from the pics. It doesn't look that bad. Screws are to spec... boot is to spec.. tie in looks ok. The fact that they came back out, ripped it off and gave you what you paid for says a lot. That roof will be all dirty and ugly in a few weeks anyway and u won't even see the bubbles, which by the way will come and go...

I wouldn't worry about it unless it leaks.


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## Sam60 (Apr 29, 2006)

madrina said:


> Honestly, I really can't tell much from the pics. It doesn't look that bad. Screws are to spec... boot is to spec.. tie in looks ok. The fact that they came back out, ripped it off and gave you what you paid for says a lot. That roof will be all dirty and ugly in a few weeks anyway and u won't even see the bubbles, which by the way will come and go...
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it unless it leaks.


Yes it does look a lot better now that it is installed on a flat surface.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

No offense, but I think it looks horrid. Are those wrinkles normal with TPO?

We were going to have 60mil TPO put on a carport that is very visible from the driveway. Is this what we should expect? Also, we will remove the torch down that is on there now, and under the torch down is car decking. Should wee cover the decking with 5/8" plywood before covering with a membrane? 

Is there a better membrane to use if I want a nice smooth job?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I did a home that got TPO. Those wrinkles come and go with the temperatures if I remember right. Sure looks a lot better than torch.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

I got lucky with the torch down we are replacing, as it looks perfect. Is there a way to lay down TPO and not have the wrinkles?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

BuilderBumm said:


> I got lucky with the torch down we are replacing, as it looks perfect. Is there a way to lay down TPO and not have the wrinkles?


I find the tar that oozes out of the seams of torch, repulsive! :laughing:


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

We covered the ooze with the same colored granules as the roof which makes them disappear.


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

BuilderBumm said:


> I got lucky with the torch down we are replacing, as it looks perfect. Is there a way to lay down TPO and not have the wrinkles?


Fully adhered instead of mech fastened


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

How would they do it fully adhered?


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

BuilderBumm said:


> How would they do it fully adhered?


You glue the membrane to the substrate instead of loose-laying it. Most upper end warranties require it. Not sure if that was a serious question or not, sorry.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

I was thinking at TPO "had" to be mechanically layed.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

I disagree. The cause of the bubbles IS from the fully adhered system. Either from the glue gassing or from the install when they laid it down they could've trapped the air. They may not have brushed(broomed) the roof. It's also possible that their was moisture or dirt that is keeping the membrane from adhering in that spot. 

Temperature will cause a mechanically fastened roof to wrinkle at times, but not bubble. 

Builderbumm, the carport is very visible from the driveway? Lol. 

And what is car decking?


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

madrina said:


> Builderbumm, the carport is very visible from the driveway? Lol.
> 
> And what is car decking?


The house is downhill from the main road, so you drive 'down' to the house. The carport rooftop and the roof top of the house is pretty much in your face - so it has to look nice.

Car decking is 2x6 t&g Douglas fir. https://tinyurl.com/hqngccj


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Oh ok.. Why don't you put a metal roof on it?  You could lay it right over what you have now and save yourself the tear off. Plus it would look a lot better for a lot longer.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

I looked at the tpo roof again on my computer vs my phone and you're right it does look like crap. I still can't decide whether those black marks are scuffs or scrapes. Also, what is going on right by the shingles? Did they use a term bar and only run the tpo up under the first shingle or is the pic just fuzzy? 
I saw some more bubbles I didn't see before also. Can you post your contract? Or tell us what the agreed install would consist of? That area is covering air conditioned living space correct? Is there attic space below? I'm curious as to how it's insulated.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

madrina said:


> Oh ok.. Why don't you put a metal roof on it? You could lay it right over what you have now and save yourself the tear off. Plus it would look a lot better for a lot longer.


I've thought about using metal, but the carport is only a 1/12 pitch, so I figured that metal wouldn't work too well. I would have thought that the rolled torch down would have to come off at least - wouldn't it?


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

No, just put battens over it. You'll never see it anyway and it will help to insulate the underside. You said it's torch down right? You'll never get that off the decking without destroying it anyway.. does the underside of that carport look like those pics you showed me on google? That's pretty. If it still looks like that, I'd leave it and throw some standing seam on it.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

Ok. Yes, the underside looks like that. It is nice looking and tough. If battens are applied, there will be a gap. Won't the standing seam bend & dent when walked on then? We could cover the top of the torch down with 5/8" or 3/4" plywood...


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

How much walking are you going to be doing up there?


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Also be mindful of how much Xtra weight that thing can hold.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

They have to go up there to clean off their roof a couple times a year, and to futz around with their wood stove wind deflector from time to time. Not a lot of walking around, but you know how people don't think about what they are doing many times, until they've messed something up. I like to make things as bullet proof as possible so we don't get complaints down the road.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

I see. Well standing seam is pretty durable but I understand your concern. Why give them the opportunity.. maybe tpo would be best. Put a recovery board on top of the torch down and then mechanically fasten the tpo.. no worries with that set up..


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

madrina said:


> Put a recovery board on top of the torch down and then mechanically fasten the tpo.. no worries with that set up..


Except the tpo tends to look bad. Does Duro Last wrinkle like tpo?


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

BuilderBumm said:


> Except the tpo tends to look bad. Does Duro Last wrinkle like tpo?


Emmmh.. i can't really say. I haven't watched one over a period of time. It's not going to wrinkle that bad. Probably not at all if you mechanically fasten it and there's no trapped moisture underneath with no way for it to escape. I think with the set up you have now, with the substrate exposed to the air, you won't have any problems. It needs to move a little bit with the building tho. How big is this thing anyway. 

Duralast is going to be a waste of money on a car port. Your #1 concern is asthetics, not longevity or functionality. And you can wash the tpo off every day of the week with fresh water if you want. Once or twice a year (on a cloudy day) get some tpo membrane cleaner or alcohol or some solvent and go wipe it down. Big sponge works best. Membrane cleaner evaporates fast. Ps wear gloves. 

60 mil overlay w recovery board will run you 
$60 -100on labor
And roughly 150 give or take on mats


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

The carport is only about 400 sq'. Longevity is a concern because replacing a membrane system up & under a standing seam metal roof down the line is a hassle. I've considered a metal roof on the carport, but the pitch is only 1/12. The contractors say it'll work as do the roofing manufactures - but it seems awful flat to me for standing seam. 

WE are going to cover the top of the carport in 5/8 plywood if we lay down a membrane. Doubt we will do plywood if we do standing seam.

Longevity is also a concern because the owners have had the place in their family for almost 150 years and they like to build thing to last. Certainly not the move out within 7 years mentality, that's for sure!


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

I prob should have worded that differently.. of course longevity is a concern for any project, I just meant asthetics determining the course of action here. Pretty much any roof will do, but you want a pretty one. 

Maybe use r panel if standing seam isn't what you want. Cheaper and you could put that right over the modified hand not use any decking at all. You'd buy those end pieces that fit the shape of the panel and fasten them right in the existing roof. R panel is more durable and less likely to dent laying on top of the modified. 

You can buy those panels painted too.

Here ya go. Anything else I can do for you? Lol. After this one advice is $300 an hour and decision making is $500 per decision.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

Thanks!


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## SouthonBeach (Oct 18, 2012)

When you say torch down is it straight to the roof deck or is a base sheet been nailed first then a torch down cap sheet? 
If you want it looking good, go with standing seam. Seal the seams and you shouldn't have any worries down to a 1/2"/12" slope.


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## BuilderBumm (Apr 27, 2016)

SouthonBeach said:


> When you say torch down is it straight to the roof deck or is a base sheet been nailed first then a torch down cap sheet?
> If you want it looking good, go with standing seam. Seal the seams and you shouldn't have any worries down to a 1/2"/12" slope.


I don't know how that torch down was applied. When you say 'go with standing seam and seal the seams' do you mean 'mechanically double lock' the seams?


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## SouthonBeach (Oct 18, 2012)

BuilderBumm said:


> I don't know how that torch down was applied. When you say 'go with standing seam and seal the seams' do you mean 'mechanically double lock' the seams?




When you do the seams of the panels you put a bead of Geocell or butyl tape between the two pans. 
Snap lock standing seam you run a bead of Geocell (or your similar favorite) in the female side of the snap lock. Makes it about as water proof as you can get.


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