# Customer wants to sue me!



## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

billthepainter said:


> Because you can't prove either way,that he didn't do it. If he fixes it to the best of his abilities then that's all he can do, and it shows he is a pro.


I agree that the op should just repair the chip. It's an inexspensive thing to do.If he does it before the HO gets really bent out of shape they will barely remember it and will only have good things to say.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Do you have a pic of the chip?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I agree that the op should just repair the chip. It's an inexspensive thing to do.If he does it before the HO gets really bent out of shape they will barely remember it and will only have good things to say.


Dunno, but they are demanding new countertops or a lawsuit, I think they are bent out of shape. Repairing it only says, I am guilty, but don't feel bad enough to replace. They will forever look at the repair and be pissed. They will tell everyone that he is careless and reckless when doing work.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they bad mouth him even if he replaces the countertops. Repair or replace it is what it is. They think he damaged it, is denying it and trying to get out of making it right.

OP, tell them you didn't do it and that there is no further discussion. Tell them if there was any doubt in your mind, you would have it repaired. Then walk away. One bad review makes not a bad contractor. Think of the can of worms you open trying to fix it or hiring someone to fix it. Line the trim ring up with the nick and show them that it was covered up by the ring.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Sounds to me like the HO is being a bit unreasonable-I would not spend a lot of effort trying to make unreasonable people happy.

I would offer to put a trim ring around it-not for free however.

If they keep it up with the talk of buying new countertops, tell them you are fine seeing them in court, as you feel you have done no wrong, and am being blamed for something that is not your fault. Politely with a smile.

I highly doubt they would ever go to court over it. I've never run into a similar problem, however people who demanded a new countertop or would be going to court...seems to be there are easier ways to deal with a small chip. I would be polite and professional, however I wouldn't hestitate to stop contact with them if they continued to be unreasonable. There are always good customers who will want you back to do work.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

carydodd,

The problem as you laid it out, is that you didn't inform the customer right away about the chip. Fairly or not, it is a he-said-she-said thing and the courts usually award any ambiguity to the HO. Simply put, the judge would ask you if it wasn't you, why didn't you inform the customer when you came across it? Good question... Any answer is going to come across as CYA...

From the HO's perspective, there wasn't a chip when you started and there was one when you were done... not an unreasonable assumption since you didn't let them know about the chip...

That said, I wouldn't immediately fold on this one. If it were from a screwdriver as the customer asserts, there would be a depression on the corner from where you lifted, not just a chip. 

What color is it? I mean, we are talking a 1/4" here... there are solutions to repair, but a color is needed first...


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## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

If it was my counter and I wasnt made aware of damage when discovered ,but after plummer was done I too would be pissed. Not to mention the outrageous bill to do it. Fix It. Im sure it can be fixed . Why did the sink get replaced in the 1rst place? Did it need replaced?


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

Judging by the lack of OP's participation in his thread I'm guessing that the HO used him as fill when he repaired the chip himself.

Not wanting to draw attention to himself and deed the HO will now never mention the contractor again, thereby rendering himself neutral in relation to the OP's reputation going forward. 

Good Luck
Dave


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## kcremodeling (Nov 8, 2009)

iDAHOchris said:


> Not to mention the outrageous bill to do it.


Why are you assuming it was an outrageous bill? 

I am assuming that he probably didn't charge enough given the circumstances that he is now dealing with.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

kcremodeling said:


> I am assuming that he probably didn't charge enough given the circumstances that he is now dealing with.


I would go further and assume he was one of the cheapest quotes and maybe charged cash deal no contract.:whistling

Good contract on that type of work should provide protection from this type of liability


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## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

kcremodeling said:


> Why are you assuming it was an outrageous bill?
> 
> I am assuming that he probably didn't charge enough given the circumstances that he is now dealing with.


 Dont all plummers charge alot?


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

iDAHOchris said:


> Dont all plummers charge alot?


thats cliche :laughing:.

I know a great plumber than charges 45$ an hour and thats decent.

If OP charged a lot he would have liability insurance to take care of this,no?


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## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

Posting it on this site and asking advice leads one to believe he may have scratched it, just 1 opinion.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

iDAHOchris said:


> Posting it on this site and asking advice leads one to believe he may have scratched it, just 1 opinion.



how do you figure that? That's what we do here..post things, share experience, headaches, problems,solutions.

his post doesn't imply guilt at all..seems very feasible the situation is exactly as he laid it out..

I personally see this situation as easily resolved..the new sink does not fit properly..it should be changed to a larger sink or the way it is set needs to be addressed..in doing this,the issue of the chip should disappear too.

Its very simple to say to the HO..listen..your sink does not fit here properly..It needs to be changed or worked out in such a manner..this in turn will cover the chip as well.

No way to know the opening would be too large until it was replaced.
And why the sink was replaced is of no bearing to the situation..it was changed because it was changed.

No one likes to be in these situations...but age and experience usually gives you thicker skin, more knowledge and less worry..doesn't make the headache go away..but you shouldn't lose sleep over it..

His biggest mistake was not pointing it out..then installing a sink that clearly doesn't belong in that opening the way it is..


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## Terrorron (Nov 7, 2008)

I've done quite a number of R & R's on drop in sinks over the years and the very first thing I do when pricing one is have the HO clean all of the crap out of the sink cabinet. Then I get flat on my back with a tape measure, inspection mirror, and a flashlight on my chest and _properly assess_ the existing situation. Then I give them their options in the form of a written proposal, based on what I found during the inspection. If they like what they see we sign a contract, they cut a deposit cheque and I book them into my schedule.

Isn't that how it's usually done?

In the case described by the OP? With a proper inspection, you would know that the chosen sink and the existing cutout were _incompatible _from the get-go. If the HO was still _hell bent _on using that particular sink, I'd first look for any work around options (with respect to a mounting ring) and if that doesn't pan out, write countertop replacement into the proposal. Probably wouldn't get the job either...but that's how it goes with some folks.

The OP did none of this...he opened the proverbial can of worms without doing his homework first. Not very professional, IMO. 

A cast iron sink hanging on an eighth inch margin? On a potentially water damaged substrate too boot? 

Oh yeah...that sounds like a good idea.:blink:


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## go dart (Dec 6, 2005)

Terrorron said:


> I've done quite a number of R & R's on drop in sinks over the years and the very first thing I do when pricing one is have the HO clean all of the crap out of the sink cabinet. Then I get flat on my back with a tape measure, inspection mirror, and a flashlight on my chest and _properly assess_ the existing situation. Then I give them their options in the form of a written proposal, based on what I found during the inspection. If they like what they see we sign a contract, they cut a deposit cheque and I book them into my schedule.
> 
> Isn't that how it's usually done?
> 
> ...


I've sold a bunch of sink replacments before. What in the world will laying flat on your back in the sink cabinet tell you? Inspection mirror? Theres usually 1/2" between the bowls and the cabinet side. If you can't cover the old trim then don't sell them a sink.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

I think the lack of reply from the OP to those who are trying to help is making me think there is more to this story than he originally let on...

There are solutions to his problem, but we can't help if no reply... :no:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree, but still an interesting topic of discussion.


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## tileman2000 (Feb 14, 2011)

It's only been a day...maybe the OP is soaking all this in. That or he's been dealing with the customer all day.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

And the moral of this story is as Terron said - do your homework.

The OP should have know the sink was too small to install in the first place. If it had been a larger sink the chip issue would be mute.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

katoman said:


> And the moral of this story is as Terron said - do your homework.
> 
> The OP should have know the sink was too small to install in the first place. If it had been a larger sink the chip issue would be mute.


That or had X-ray vision.:whistling:laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

OR......._this_ is the HO and they just want to find out other contractor's opinions :shifty:


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

All it takes is a few words in the contract " not responsible for any existing/or newly acquired damages during removal of existing material" :thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

greg24k said:


> All it takes is a few words in the contract " not responsible for any existing/or newly acquired damages during removal of existing material" :thumbsup:


For a sink swap? 

How come I never find myself in these awkward situations?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> For a sink swap?
> 
> How come I never find myself in these awkward situations?


Because you don't swap sinks in your line of work?:whistling


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

angus242 said:


> OR......._this_ is the HO and they just want to find out other contractor's opinions :shifty:



oooooh...I love a good conspiracy theory!


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Who did the damage, past or present?


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> For a sink swap?
> 
> How come I never find myself in these awkward situations?


I never been in this situations as well ( don't mean I shouldn't protect myself) I guess we're more fortunate then others.

With that said, there is HO out there who know how things work and look to nail someone who don't know any better, and its a sad thing that most of the time they succeed. 

So no matter what I do and no matter how nice HO is, how big of a smile they have and how many gallons of coffee they want to make, lets not forget the fact that we have a business to run and that is why we have a contract to protect our interests. So when everything is OK, things are OK... but when something goes wrong, the sh^*t hits the fan and something that is old and worthless to you or me, turns out to be someones priced possession. 

So when I drop a dumpster on someones driveway, I will take pictures before and after, and I will have the HO sign a note, that they read and understand that if a truck breaks a sidewalk, nobody is responsible but them. If they want me move furniture, the same thing, and that goes with everything else.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Dunno, but they are demanding new countertops or a lawsuit, I think they are bent out of shape. Repairing it only says, I am guilty, but don't feel bad enough to replace. They will forever look at the repair and be pissed. They will tell everyone that he is careless and reckless when doing work.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they bad mouth him even if he replaces the countertops. Repair or replace it is what it is. They think he damaged it, is denying it and trying to get out of making it right.
> 
> OP, tell them you didn't do it and that there is no further discussion. Tell them if there was any doubt in your mind, you would have it repaired. Then walk away. One bad review makes not a bad contractor. Think of the can of worms you open trying to fix it or hiring someone to fix it. Line the trim ring up with the nick and show them that it was covered up by the ring.


I was refering to what I would have done to start with. The OP let the situation get away from him. Now that it has progressed I would do as has been said and stand my ground. My point was if handled differently it could have been a barely remembered hiccup in a well done job.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I was refering to what I would have done to start with. The OP let the situation get away from him. Now that it has progressed I would do as has been said and stand my ground. My point was if handled differently it could have been a barely remembered hiccup in a well done job.


Sorry, didn't sound like it to me.

"I agree that the op should just repair the chip. It's an inexspensive thing to do.If he does it before the HO gets really bent out of shape they will barely remember it and will only have good things to say."

It was all present tense.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Sorry, didn't sound like it to me.
> 
> "I agree that the op should just repair the chip. It's an inexspensive thing to do.If he does it before the HO gets really bent out of shape they will barely remember it and will only have good things to say."
> 
> It was all present tense.


I guess it's a good thing I clarified my statement then.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

when someones holding your money,I don't care what your contract says....you break it, damage it, scratch it...sneeze on it....if they got your money..they are in control.

most people will honor it and accept what is...but there are some that don't scare easily..


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

jamestrd said:


> when someones holding your money,I don't care what your contract says....you break it, damage it, scratch it...sneeze on it....if they got your money..they are in control.
> 
> most people will honor it and accept what is...but there are some that don't scare easily..


You wrong James, from the legal point of view, everything is about your contract and what it say... nothing else will matter. No matter how much money they hold and if you say you not responsible for something, and they sign the contract...if that something rolls down the stairs and breaks into a pieces, you are not responsible for it, and if they don't pay you because of that, they are in breach of contract.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

greg24k said:


> You wrong James, from the legal point of view, everything is about your contract and what it say... nothing else will matter. No matter how much money they hold and if you say you not responsible for something, and they sign the contract...if that something rolls down the stairs and breaks into a pieces, you are not responsible for it, and if they don't pay you because of that, they are in breach of contract.


That's bogus, a good lawyer will take your contract, tear it up and urinate upon the remains. Does a contact help? Absolutely. Is a contract a panacea for all problems that occur absolutely not.

I sure don't swap out sinks, but I do a lot of service work, and a small service call never has a contact involved. If I encounter a problem I snap a pic and contact the homeowner immediately. If I break or damage something I tell the homeowner and fix it. Simple.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> That's bogus, a good lawyer will take your contract, tear it up and urinate upon the remains. Does a contact help? Absolutely. Is a contract a panacea for all problems that occur absolutely not.
> 
> I sure don't swap out sinks, but I do a lot of service work, and a small service call never has a contact involved. If I encounter a problem I snap a pic and contact the homeowner immediately. If I break or damage something I tell the homeowner and fix it. Simple.


Then you better get lawyer to write up a contract that won't get peed on.


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## GPI (Jan 13, 2005)

At the moment someone threatens lawsuit, all working it out breaks down. 
If someone threatens to sue, i take it as "do as i ask or else". Which of course the one who is being threatened clams up or begs for mercy. Which neither is a good choice. 
A good covenant not to sue clause in a contract helps (mediation thru a third party) generally saves alot of headaches.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Then you better get lawyer to write up a contract that won't get peed on.


An impossible task.:thumbsup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I guess it's a good thing I clarified my statement then.


or changed it...:thumbsup::laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Then you better get lawyer to write up a contract that won't get peed on.


He's a good guy, good legal history and good client, but when it comes down to judge jury and an upset client with a barrel of money I haven't a doubt in my mind it will get torn up. All it takes is a good lawyer to show that the client did not fully understand the contract he signed and its over.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> or changed it...:thumbsup::laughing:


Take it how you like.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

OK, I have lunch & drinks for ten guys.....

One post wonder...:no:

No contract was involved...

Low bid low baller trying to make a quick buck....

Who in their right mind would think you can replace a sink, mounted in a Hoody Ring & replace it with a top set. Experience would tell you that the counter top will be discolored at the very least under the ring.

1/8" supporting the sink....:no:

Sorry but this reeks of someone that has seen one too many Saturday morning shows...:whistling:laughing:


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

carydodd said:


> I got paid 70% of the job. Lowe's paid my company $150 for the installation. And I got 70% of that. Yup, not worth doing the job, that's why I don't install for them anymore.


If you are doing the job for lowes-I don't understand why they would not have directed their complaint for lowes to deal with-I had thought that was the standard way that works.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Greg, look at some past cases involving contracts that were torn up, mostly on the ground that the person that signed the contact did not fully understand the terms and conditions. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here but history shows that good lawyers rip up contracts, waivers and other pieces of paper. Now many cases have been won by contractors because of their contracts, but as I started it is not a panacea.


I agree with Greg and Inner10 on contracts. I had a signed contract on a job that went to court. I lost a good amount of money because I did not state that treated wood shrinks. I assumed that everybody knows this, or really didn't care. I know now that if I get bad vibes off the person to run away. I also have added the condistions of the wood and what possiable changes they will go though to my contract. 

Also I learned too late that this guy was a professional suer and this was how he made his living. So in the end I was going to most likly lose because of my inxperice of these types of people. I learned a good lesson on this one and probley will prevent me from being taken again like that.

someone else said too that the courts look at the contractor as the person who should make it right. Since this person is the most knowledgable person doing the work. Something I now think about.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

BC Carpenter said:


> If you are doing the job for lowes-I don't understand why they would not have directed their complaint for lowes to deal with-I had thought that was the standard way that works.


I almost became a installer too. But the prospect of 1 -4 new customers a day, and make sure they are happy, i decided that I want to stick with bigger jobs, with less customers.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Gary H said:


> I almost became a installer too. But the prospect of 1 -4 new customers a day, and make sure they are happy, i decided that I want to stick with bigger jobs, with less customers.




I wonder what they pay....probably make more working on your own jobs


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

I didn't read all 7 pages of comments, so forgive me if someone already said this. In the first place, you are definitely not responsible for replacing all the countertops in the house, regardless if the material is no longer available. It's like getting into an accident and the body parts aren't available. You don't have to buy someone a new car. You don't even have to buy new body parts, used ones are acceptable. 

You are only responsible for the damage that is proven to be your fault. I would think at the most you would have to pay them a cash settlement of the piece that was damaged, if you are found at fault. Besides, there are plenty of countertop repair companies that can fix it. That's the most I would offer.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

About $75 per door. Thats for a 36''. The extras are where the money is to be made. such as sill replacement and wraps. But most people want cheap, so that is rare that you will get rich. The other thing is that you have to go to the store to get the door and then to the customers house. Where I live its a drive to the store, and then a drive going the opposite way from where I am. I think for some people its a good deal and they can make a good living. But for me it is too much extra stress for little pay back.

Also they keep 10 to 50 percent of the job so they have power over you to go back and fix the door if something goes wrong. And you don't get that cash back untilm one year after you stop installing for them. Minus fees for holding the cash. Somewhere I still got my paper work with all the details.


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## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

jamestrd said:


> CaryDodd,
> 
> lastly, call your agent and get some feed back on it..
> if your insurance co thinks you are not responsible, they will NOT pay the claim.


Seeing as I am an insurance person, I felt it necessary to add a P.S. to this comment.  Regardless of whether your insurer thinks you are responsible or not, if the damage is an insured peril, they will supply their lawyers and take care of the defence costs.

As for this particular situation, unfortunately, I do not see this as being covered by a standard insurance policy. Damage to the immediate area that is being worked on by a contractor is a standard exclusion on liability policies. Only damage to areas other than that being worked on would be covered. Example: You are working on the sink plumbing and the pipe bursts sending water all over the place. The damage to the pipe won't be covered. The water damage to the room's carpet and furniture would be covered. In this case, whether you are considered responsible for the chip or not, it is too close to the area you were working on to be insurable. Sorry, you're on your own on this one. It is not an insured peril and your insurers won't help you with a defence.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

Astrix said:


> Seeing as I am an insurance person, I felt it necessary to add a P.S. to this comment. Regardless of whether your insurer thinks you are responsible or not, if the damage is an insured peril, they will supply their lawyers and take care of the defence costs.
> 
> As for this particular situation, unfortunately, I do not see this as being covered by a standard insurance policy. Damage to the immediate area that is being worked on by a contractor is a standard exclusion on liability policies. Only damage to areas other than that being worked on would be covered. Example: You are working on the sink plumbing and the pipe bursts sending water all over the place. The damage to the pipe won't be covered. The water damage to the room's carpet and furniture would be covered. In this case, whether you are considered responsible for the chip or not, it is too close to the area you were working on to be insurable. Sorry, you're on your own on this one. It is not an insured peril and your insurers won't help you with a defence.


So as contractors how do we protect ourselves in this type of scenario? Granted in this situation the monetary costs being discussed are minimal but there are countless scenarios and customers that could escalate costs into bankruptcy realm and it appears the insurance so many of us rely on would leave us twisting.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

r4r&r said:


> So as contractors how do we protect ourselves in this type of scenario? Granted in this situation the monetary costs being discussed are minimal but there are countless scenarios and customers that could escalate costs into bankruptcy realm and it appears the insurance so many of us rely on would leave us twisting.


Ask your insurance guy for every type of insurance possible, get it in writing, then if you get sued and insurance refuses to cover it sue your insurance broker through his errors and omissions insurance. :laughing:


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Ask your insurance guy for every type of insurance possible, get it in writing, then if you get sued and insurance refuses to cover it sue your insurance broker through his errors and omissions insurance. :laughing:


The only problem with that is he would probably take all the money he made off me and hire somebody else to come in and remodel his kitchen.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> Greg, look at some past cases involving contracts that were torn up, mostly on the ground that the person that signed the contact did not fully understand the terms and conditions. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here but history shows that good lawyers rip up contracts, waivers and other pieces of paper. Now many cases have been won by contractors because of their contracts, but as I started it is not a panacea.


I'm not trying to get into pissing contest with you, I'm just trying to make you understand that the law is the law and contract is a contract.

If what you saying is true, then you should move...because if you live in a place where laws, contracts and wavers are being throwing out... then you're fu*^ed, because it just don't make any common sense for this being true and you cannot conduct business, any business.

With that said, when a person signs a contract, the BS story I "Didn't understand what I was signing"...don't work, unless you're underage to sign a contract, unless you have medical proof that you not playing with a "full deck" (and that is questionable), or someone put a gun to your head to sign something...the contract is fully enforceable and no lawyer(don't care how good he is) will kill it...


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Gary H said:


> I agree with Greg and Inner10 on contracts. I had a signed contract on a job that went to court. I lost a good amount of money because I did not state that treated wood shrinks. I assumed that everybody knows this, or really didn't care. I know now that if I get bad vibes off the person to run away. I also have added the condistions of the wood and what possiable changes they will go though to my contract.
> 
> Also I learned too late that this guy was a professional suer and this was how he made his living. So in the end I was going to most likly lose because of my inxperice of these types of people. I learned a good lesson on this one and probley will prevent me from being taken again like that.
> 
> someone else said too that the courts look at the contractor as the person who should make it right. Since this person is the most knowledgable person doing the work. Something I now think about.


You didn't lose because of the contract, you lost because you inexperienced and don't know any better and came to court unprepared. All you had to say that Wood naturally expands and contracts with seasonal changes and in the surrounding conditions i.e humidity, etc and to a lesser degree the temperature... This movement cannot be stopped and is considered to be act of God.

This is why, this never required to be included in contracts, i.e new home construction,additions, and anything that have to do with wood or wood structures, because of the natural causes. 

In addition you should always have a paragraph in your contract stating "Contractor is not responsible for any deviation or variations in color or material..." and that would cover any aspect of the work you do and any material that you use.

In addition, if your court system allows lawyers to win cases like this... you better start adding this to every contract "Drying lumber, either naturally (air drying) or in a kiln is the process to lower the moisture content to the surrounding environment. For much of the United States, the minimum moisture content of thoroughly air dried lumber is 12% to 15%. Kiln dried hardwood will usually be less than 10%." :laughing:

With that said, every contract would be a book with a 100 of scientific explanations what to expect from each material being used and how that material will interact with adjacent material, etc. which just don't make any common sense

Like a said before and I will say it again...Contracts its about common sense, and they should be clear and very easy to understand for both parties...


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## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

r4r&r said:


> So as contractors how do we protect ourselves in this type of scenario? Granted in this situation the monetary costs being discussed are minimal but there are countless scenarios and customers that could escalate costs into bankruptcy realm and it appears the insurance so many of us rely on would leave us twisting.


The view of the insurance industry is that damage to property being worked upon is an uninsurable peril. The reasoning is that unqualified and lousy contractors who do shoddy work should not have access to compensation through their insurance policy. Competent contractors who do not make mistakes do not need insurance for their work. Incompetent contractors should carry the costs of making their bad work right as part of their own business expense (and hopefully go out of business).

Granted, accidents and mistakes do happen, and resultant damage can be claimed. Like the example I gave before re water damage; or for example, a roofer doing hot torch accidentally burns down the building. The value of the building is covered, less the roof that he was working on. He will have to pay to fix the area of the roof that he was hot-torching himself.

I respectfully suggest that the answer to protecting yourself from unscrupulous customers lies in the wording of your contract and your work practices. As many others have already written in this thread, a well-written contract is worth its weight in gold and immediately pointing out any unexpected issues that could be blamed on your work is good practice.


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## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Ask your insurance guy for every type of insurance possible, get it in writing, then if you get sued and insurance refuses to cover it sue your insurance broker through his errors and omissions insurance. :laughing:


:laughing: I'm laughing with you on that comment. I am a broker and do not work for an insurance company. To be honest, there are many days I hate the insurance companies. :laughing:

My job as a broker is to try to explain the current insurance system so that people can make informed decisions on what risks they want to transfer to insurance and what risks they want to keep for themselves (self-insuring); plus trying to find the insurer with the best pricing for that particular client of course. 

You will never find a qualified insurance broker willing to put in writing, or even say out loud for that matter, that "you are insured for everything". This does not exist. Every insurance policy has exclusions and even the term "All Risk" is a misrepresentation because "all risks" are never covered. I know the insurance industry is disliked and that is actually one of the reasons I visit these forums, because I want to help inform and set straight some of the misunderstandings of how insurance truly works. :thumbsup:


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## carydodd (Mar 12, 2012)

Had to pay for half of the new countertops. Lowe's paid the other half. Cost me $1000. Could've been worse I guess. Learned a lot of lessons on this job.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

carydodd said:


> Had to pay for half of the new countertops. Lowe's paid the other half. Cost me $1000. Could've been worse I guess. Learned a lot of lessons on this job.


You went to court over a grand?


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

I would be very nice! Then I would ask permission to bring in an other pro for a second opinion, with the offer that he may have a reasonable solution. It is not reasonable for the HO to expect all new counter tops at no charge. The second opinion might be useful if you can not settle them outside a court room. I have had the odd HO look high & low for some reason to avoid the bill! I am not saying these ones are, but I always suspect. If you did no damage, you should not cave on the issue. I would tell them their chances in court are not great. A judge in a case of mine, said "The courts always apply a rule of reasonableness." It is reasonable to expect to discover hidden problems when changing fixtures. It is also reasonable to expect the replacement have approximately the same area of coverage as the item removed. The HO demanded that area be exposed by a lip that could not cover the area of the old sink. They share a huge amount of responsibility. So long as the damage really does not extend beyond the old boundary.
An aside:
It seems these people were none to bright. They purchased a different size sink and want it in the same space and expect it to fit properly...?!? 1/8" and heavy cast iron? How long can it hold under ware?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Underware.. :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> Unfortunately, way too often that's like saying the alleged victim has to prove you're the rapist.


The alleged victim does have to prove your the rapist in this country. Your innocent until proven guilty.


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

I was sued by an Ho for leaving a mess after he locked me out with my tools locked in. It was a nasty business. He just did not want to pay. He kept offering me half of the contracted price. I put a contractors lien on his place and he sued me in return. The judge was great. The HO complained to the judge about the mess. The judge said" it simply looked like work was being carried out." The HO said, "yes but she just left it like that." The judge then let go and bellowed, "Well, you locked her out! What was she supposed to do?" (I WON, no contest)


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