# abusive customer has a call back



## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

huggytree said:


> Found the letter
> 
> it ends with
> 
> ...


Giving money back is like admitting you did shoddy work. I would go look at it, hand him a sky high bid and hopefully, never hear from him again.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So much information is lacking here and throwing this out for everyone to see is not a wise choice IMO,,,,,





JMPOV ,



B,


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

the price i charged for the work was very fair......it also includes a trip to bid on the project too....on small projects i typically add $150 to the job just to bid it...its hard to make up for the bid on jobs under $1,000

what i actually made on the project or how much an hour i made means nothing...that's a flawed way to look at it...the job was bid by a set price...not T&M

anyways i got 3 emails back from him....now he said the pipe is actually pitched the opposite way he said the other day.....and on his last email he says i still owe him 4 hours labor...

i wrote him a check for $875 and told him not to contact me again

i lost sleep 6 months ago with his hate letter and now ive lost sleep for 2 nights and stressed out for 3 days....its no longer worth $875 to me

i think getting 1 of these customers a year is pretty damn good......i deal with 400 customers a year......1 out of 400 is amazing to me.....this year its actually been 2 bad ones.....(the other guy wanted me to warranty something that was 1.5 years out of warranty and threatened to call the local tv news)

from the info the customer has told me im pretty sure its not my fault...it appears that his septic system has sunk....which i think most likely means its getting washed out from a leak further down stream....i think he's in for thousands in repairs.

i found out he's also an engineer....it sounded like i was going to be to blame no matter what i said, so why bother going there


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## 98crewcab (Oct 7, 2013)

Im sorry bro.....nothing to do now but move on.


end thread....


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Between you and the other plumber who wants to fight house wives im beginning to think its the plumbing business.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

huggytree said:


> the price i charged for the work was very fair......it also includes a trip to bid on the project too....on small projects i typically add $150 to the job just to bid it...its hard to make up for the bid on jobs under $1,000 what i actually made on the project or how much an hour i made means nothing...that's a flawed way to look at it...the job was bid by a set price...not T&M anyways i got 3 emails back from him....now he said the pipe is actually pitched the opposite way he said the other day.....and on his last email he says i still owe him 4 hours labor... i wrote him a check for $875 and told him not to contact me again i lost sleep 6 months ago with his hate letter and now ive lost sleep for 2 nights and stressed out for 3 days....its no longer worth $875 to me i think getting 1 of these customers a year is pretty damn good......i deal with 400 customers a year......1 out of 400 is amazing to me.....this year its actually been 2 bad ones.....(the other guy wanted me to warranty something that was 1.5 years out of warranty and threatened to call the local tv news) from the info the customer has told me im pretty sure its not my fault...it appears that his septic system has sunk....which i think most likely means its getting washed out from a leak further down stream....i think he's in for thousands in repairs. i found out he's also an engineer....it sounded like i was going to be to blame no matter what i said, so why bother going there


If you are content with it then great. I was going to suggest a few things so it won't happen as often in the future.


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## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

If you haven't sent the check out, tear it up!!!

Lets get this straight. A guy causes you days of anguish and sleepless nights so you figure you should reward him by sending him $850?

I see that as an admission of guilt.

Your Honor, he sent me a full refund. He knew the job he did was wrong. Now I need a whole new septic system because he worked on this drain and it leaked and undermined my tanks. 

The tank was fine before or he would have told me that I needed a tank. 

Even if you never hear from him again, all you accomplished was to reinforce in his mind that contractors don't need to be paid. That screws all of us. 

Just in case someone hasn't heard me say it yet. 
NEVER RETURN MONEY. 

Besides, as you stated, your price was fair. A job costs whatever you and your client agree its worth. You didn't have a gun to his head. 

Bob


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## chew (Apr 5, 2012)

huggytree said:


> the price i charged for the work was very fair......it also includes a trip to bid on the project too....on small projects i typically add $150 to the job just to bid it...its hard to make up for the bid on jobs under $1,000
> 
> what i actually made on the project or how much an hour i made means nothing...that's a flawed way to look at it...the job was bid by a set price...not T&M
> 
> ...


The only way you should have gave him any money back is if you did something wrong.

You should have checked out the problem preceded from there.

I doubt the tank settled recently. The bottom of the tank is at least 6ft. in the ground & it has cast iron pipe run to it, so it probably been in the ground at least 10 years.

There are thousands of mid-seam tanks in the ground that are leaking & they are not settling.


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## chew (Apr 5, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> I would think it would be well worth the mess to prove it. I mean, yo would only shoot another man if your life was in danger of being killed so the result of not shooting would mean you would be dead. If the result of shooting is to remain alive vs being killed I would have no problem going though the agony of proving it.
> 
> Unless of course, a person shot another man when your life wasn't really in danger.
> 
> If you left the gun at home wouldn't you be dead?


In my case yes, because I would have been dead.

But I have never been in situation wear a customer made me in fear for my life where I would be justified in shooting them.

Though a few have made me want to shoot them .

I have seen too many people get in trouble, because they have a gun & do something stupid like pointing it at someone.

If you got to pull it out it's time to use it.


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

I gave him his money back because

1. he hates me....why do I want to be in his house and deal with him again
2. I found out he's an engineer----he's got it in his head the proper way things should be done.....with NO real world experience (this was the biggest reason)
3. he gave me info on what was happening and then the next day said the exact opposite thing was happening
4. he started bringing up again how I still owe him 4 hours of labor...he was not going to be satisfied with me until I dug it up and proved it was not my fault....looking through the pipe and poking around wasn't going to be enough
5. I believe this will get him to stop and move on

I think he will find the new plumbing bids will be more than mine
I also think when he starts to complain about my work many of the other plumbers will not give him a bid...they will see he's a problem customer

the fitting was 1/8"off through a rubber coupling.....and hes complaining about it...nothing will make this guy happy and I need him to go away

sending him $875 doesn't admit my guilt....he makes him forget about me and I think its the only way he will move on...he's probably been thinking about me every day for 6 months

I am confident the issue isn't my fault...so any future legal problems are most likely 0
ive never had a fernco leak on me.....and the type of leaking he's talking about is more like pouring....he thinks everything that goes down his drain is ending up in his sump crock....it means that something is broken completely....at the worst my fernco is dripping once every 30-60 seconds....he admitted it was ponding around my fernco...if its ponding its not leaking......it sounds like his septic has dropped.....most likely its being washed out...sewer water is following it back to the house

does this reinforce this guy being a *sshole? yes....will he do it again with the next contractor? yes....I have a brother that complains about every contractor that's ever been in his house.....a few have been my recommendations.....he's never happy with one of them...always a problem or a complaint......this bad customer of mine is the same as my brother,but worse...he's an engineer and has it in his head how things should be done....when its not done his way then its wrong

ive always thought that there needs to be a Angies list for customers....somewhere where contractors can rate homeowners. some customers are thieves and some are never happy/complainers.....it would be nice if they got a bad reputation just like bad businesses do


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

It should of included a letter that states the money is being returned as "nuisance money only", and is not an admission of wrong doing. Insurance companies do it all the time. It really is called "nuisance money". That's a legal term. Simply put he may now say you made the problem worse and had to pay more money to have someone correct it.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

chew said:


> I have seen too many people get in trouble, because they have a gun & do something stupid like pointing it at someone.


Or someone notices you have one concealed, and they call the police saying you threatened them with it and here's your truck description.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> Or someone notices you have one concealed, and they call the police saying you threatened them with it and here's your truck description.


Yep, now you lose your right to conceal.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

So you sunk time and materials, get no money and still have liability for the work he says you did. I'd never do that, but that's just me.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Yep, now you lose your right to conceal.


And get to have the thrill of a felony stop as a known armed suspect

People have been shot for less...


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> It should of included a letter that states the money is being returned as "nuisance money only", and is not an admission of wrong doing. Insurance companies do it all the time. It really is called "nuisance money". That's a legal term. Simply put he may now say you made the problem worse and had to pay more money to have someone correct it.


That is a great point:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

I dont think you've heard the end of this huggytree. Returning the money is almost certainly viewed as an admittance of doing the work incorrectly by the customer. I'm willing to bet you will be sent the bill from the next contractor.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

huggytree said:


> 2. I found out he's an *engineer*----he's got it in his head the proper way things should be done.....with NO real world experience (this was the biggest reason)


I had to explain to another engineer 3 weeks ago that by simply installing a 20 amp receptacle, he will not get that 5 extra amps. He was baffled and didn't believe me, and proceeded to argue. I guess he thought that the receptacle would let in that 5 extra amps, even though the circuit is on a 15 amp breaker.

Huggy, I hope this doesn't come back to haunt you as an admission of some type of guilt. Keep us posted.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

LPE is what counts in the engineering world, and I doubt he has one covering residential plumbing and septic systems.


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

hdavis said:


> So you sunk time and materials, get no money and still have liability for the work he says you did. I'd never do that, but that's just me.


the work I did is pretty small...there isn't much liability there....its not like I ran the whole septic system...its just ONE joint 3' from the house

even if the leak is my fault its not damaging anything...its just leaking 3' from the house and running down the block into the sump crock

my gut says this will end it.....I think I understand this type of customer...he's nuts, but not nuts enough to send me a bill for future repairs.....he will simply use the $$ I gave him to redo the project

giving him his $$ back = he won....its want he always wanted....he wanted to WIN.....and now he has

don't see giving $$ back as any admission of guilt...that doesn't even make sense.....I spent 1/2 a week going back and forth with multiple emails per day...each one getting worse and worse

he will know why I did it.....just to get rid of him and move on

he won, he will go away.....I ended my short email to him with 'please never contact me again'...on the memo part of the check I should have put THANKS FOR THE ORAL SEX


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

Need to install software on all member computers. If you start a thread and never give a conclusion it posts daily reminders on your computer until you post how it ended.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

Battering Ram(huggytree). Any conclusion to this ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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