# Wood Foundations



## META (Apr 9, 2015)

fjn said:


> META said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting..
> ...


So, we need to look into comparisons between stainless and galvanized fasteners in low oxygen environments.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

META said:


> So, we need to look into comparisons between stainless and galvanized fasteners in low oxygen environments.




The trouble with galvanized in both of our field is that all it takes is to nick the coating off one spot and Wham,there is the ***** in the armor.

I often wondered at the logic of hitting the head of a galvanized nail with a hammer. The very spot closest to the weather now is left vulnerable.


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## META (Apr 9, 2015)

Theoretically, the bigger concern on wood foundations may be the lumber treatment and how it reacts to the fasteners, being in a perfect world, the outer vapor barrier should be keeping fasteners dry.

Regarding galvanized fasteners being compromised during application, that is also similar to the damage on GRKs, and other coated screws when being driven.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

fjn said:


> This is just one of several a good friend ,boat enthusiast and engineer shared with me.
> 
> https://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2016/august/not-so-stainless-steel.asp


Wow, great article, very informative.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Rio said:


> Wow, great article, very informative.


 


You know Rio; I found that article very informative and also very scary ! In the masonry field,stainless steel has been kinda projected as the belt and suspender approach for masonry anchors. It looks like in reality,it could be one of the least viable materials to use. 

As I previously stated,I would definitely classify an anchor embedded in mortar to be low oxygen.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

fjn said:


> You know Rio; I found that article very informative and also very scary ! In the masonry field,stainless steel has been kinda projected as the belt and suspender approach for masonry anchors. It looks like in reality,it could be one of the least viable materials to use.
> 
> As I previously stated,I would definitely classify an anchor embedded in mortar to be low oxygen.


I know, it really came as a surprise to me and now I wonder what, if anything, would be a belt and suspenders fastener?


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Rio said:


> I know, it really came as a surprise to me and now I wonder what, if anything, would be a belt and suspenders fastener?





Boy,you are not kidding.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

fjn said:


> Boy,you are not kidding.


Thinking maybe back to hot dipped galvanized?


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## META (Apr 9, 2015)

Kind of why we need to see some real world studies between the two, IMO.


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## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

fjn said:


> .... I found that article very informative and also very scary ! ....


Scary was the first thought I had too. I've been relying on stainless steel clamps and fasteners in underground (and other) locations for years. I'd hate to have to pull up a well because a clamp or foot valve failed (BTDT).


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I always used copper nails on wooden boats.

Double hot dipped galvanized nails will take a smooth face hammer blow without compromising the zinc. This, however, does depend on the manufacturer.

Every single grip rite galvanized gun nail I have used has poor adhesion of the zinc to the nail. It will shear off easily. Any exposed heads are easily compromised, if they weren't compromised when driven.

I don't think titanium would corrode, but who wants to buy titanium hardware.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Sisyphus said:


> Scary was the first thought I had too. I've been relying on stainless steel clamps and fasteners in underground (and other) locations for years. I'd hate to have to pull up a well because a clamp or foot valve failed (BTDT).


I ran into the stainless hose clamp, but the screw on it wasn't stainless issue. The screw rusted out in a year on a radiator hose.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> I ran into the stainless hose clamp, but the screw on it wasn't stainless issue. The screw rusted out in a year on a radiator hose.


yup. Seen that a bunch.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Stainless hose clamps below grade may or may not be a concern. Reason being,in other articles I read,the stainless will appear outwardly,to be intact,however,for lack of better description,it breaks down inwardly on let's call it a molecular level. That is the insidious reality the boating industry uncovered. The swivels for rigging along with the doohickeys ropes are wrapped around etc. look fine until.........they are not. From what I read regarding boats (I'm not a boater) years ago,bronze was the material of choice. Stainless displaced it because bronze needed polishing,stainless almost always "looked good ".


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## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

A local water system here had to dig up a lot of the lines because gear clamps failed, screws rusted out. Sad... I think it was just an oversight the 20 cents per clamp saved by not going "all stainless" wouldn't have mattered to the original contractor. 

I've seen both types of clamps (stainless screw & regular screw) mixed together in the same bin, I check the labels.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I haven't seen a wood foundation before but I'm curious. How do you level it if it's sitting on gravel?


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## META (Apr 9, 2015)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I haven't seen a wood foundation before but I'm curious. How do you level it if it's sitting on gravel?


The gravel bed needs to be level, or foundation walls are istalled on footings.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

META said:


> The gravel bed needs to be level, or foundation walls are istalled on footings.


How do you get a level gravel bed? We're talking +- 1/8" accuracy is what I like to see for height. It would be hard to do with a rake.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

KennMacMoragh said:


> How do you get a level gravel bed? We're talking +- 1/8" accuracy is what I like to see for height. It would be hard to do with a rake.




That is a good question,however,a gravel base is all you get with Superior Walls pre-cast concrete foundations also.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

A Plate tamper/vibrator.... a shovel, the 2x8-10- 12" treated mud sill.

Tamp rock, set plate, check level, Similar to screeding concrete bases, Repeat as needed, Drive in rebar elevation pins, avoid drain tiles, screed to pins, don't molest pins, or recheck as needed.

I'd "tea bag" the rock in clayey soils to add decades of flow through the tile and rock and reduce earth movement/settlement.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> I actually get to have my say, critics or no.
> 
> As for wood foundations and pilings, pilings are used for foundations all the time. If they're wood pilings, it's a wood foundation. Simple stuff. It's how and where wood is used that makes a difference.
> 
> I think only a few here have worked with PT exterior plywood, marine plywood (no PT), and just plain old plywood with exterior rating in marine applications. That's some practical experience.


Back to plywood again, are ya?

In other words, you have no practical experience with foundations, wood or otherwise. Just lots of Air Theory.:no::laughing:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Other than stone, brick, block, poured concrete, floating wood and padstone? No, no experience.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Other than stone, brick, block, poured concrete, floating wood and padstone? No, no experience.


right....


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Let me just throw this into the argument.
About 10 years ago I bought 6X6's rated for direct burial and used them to build wife a raised garden bed.
Last year there was a huge nest of ants coming out of the ground along side one of them.

I went to dig up some of the ground to pour ant chemicals on them.

When I hit the side of the 6X6 that was below grade the shovel went right into it. It was all starting to rot and the ants were nesting in it.


Found a tag on one of the 6X6's that said "Lifetime Warranty".

I googled the company to contact them and they had declared bankruptcy. So, what happens if the company that supplies your wood cheats and then goes bankrupt?


Now just to be fair, I read somewhere months ago that around CT, RI, or MA, there was bad concrete that went into a massive amount of poured foundations. So I guess if the pressure treating company can cheat, so can the concrete company.


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## META (Apr 9, 2015)

My brother in law had the same thing happen to some big box treated lumber he used to build raised garden boxes. Was junk in a couple years.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> Let me just throw this into the argument.
> About 10 years ago I bought 6X6's rated for direct burial and used them to build wife a raised garden bed.
> Last year there was a huge nest of ants coming out of the ground along side one of them.
> 
> ...


 

Well,unlike the wood failure surprise down the road,each and every truckload of concrete could be tested at independent labs.,to insure the concrete meets the required design parameters. Most commercial jobs require it and I highly recommend it for residential work as well. Doing so,will catch a problem BEFORE you pile a quarter of a million dollars worth of labor and material on top of a defective foundation.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> Now just to be fair, I read somewhere months ago that around CT, RI, or MA, there was bad concrete that went into a massive amount of poured foundations. So I guess if the pressure treating company can cheat, so can the concrete company.


It was the aggregate IIRC, something about it having some mineral in it that reacts over time and degrades the integrity of the concrete. So it wasn't even the concrete company cheating, but an unforseen problem that nobody had experienced before and so didn't even know to test for. 
If I got that wrong, please correct me!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Most of the PT lumbet I see in big boxes is junk, and all the local yards witches to the same cheap source. Anything good is a special order now.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Wood meant for wood foundations has a very high level of the older good CCA stuff and must be specifically stamped for use in wood foundations. It isn't anywhere close to the crap the box stores sell.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

SPG said:


> It was the aggregate IIRC, something about it having some mineral in it that reacts over time and degrades the integrity of the concrete. So it wasn't even the concrete company cheating, but an unforseen problem that nobody had experienced before and so didn't even know to test for.
> If I got that wrong, please correct me!




That sounds right. So then it wasn't a concrete company cheating.
Thanks for that.

Feel sorry for all those homeowners though.


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## prorabnn (Aug 16, 2019)

Good day. I saw your argument. In the photo there are 2 buildings. Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Nizhny Novgorod, year of construction 1866 and Alexandria Column in the city of St. Petersburg, year of construction 1834. Both of these structures stand on a wooden foundation. For the foundation, oak logs, previously soaked in water, were used. The foundation was made of oak. It is better to connect logs with a wooden dagger (in the photo). In Russia, it’s cheaper to make a foundation of concrete. 1 cubic meter of concrete costs $ 50; a cubic meter of oak is approximately $ 200. Convenience and durability on the concrete side.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

If it's cheaper to make the foundations for those beautiful reasons out of concrete why do you think they were made out of wood?


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## prorabnn (Aug 16, 2019)

Rio said:


> If it's cheaper to make the foundations for those beautiful reasons out of concrete why do you think they were made out of wood?


when they built a church and a column, concrete and reinforcement were not invented. currently cheaper and easier to build from concrete


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the oak log foundation detail.:thumbsup:


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