# Windmills and Tesla generators



## KG007 (Oct 23, 2009)

Okay, this is a stupid question. I know flooring and cabinets, not electrical. Has anyone fooled around with a home or business windmill or Tesla generator?

Supposedly, one can build a small windmill or solar panel for $200-$300, though it sounds like you may have to scrounge some parts. I assume you get about 500KW to maybe 1000KW, from what I've read. But all these places seem intent on making money on "free energy" by selling you their information on how to build a windmill or solar panel.

I wouldn't mind spending $50 IF it worked and was clear. But the stuff I've read isn't clear. at least not to me, and not very detailed.

Larger windmill kits seem to be wildly expensive, $6,000 and going over $10K quickly. If the concept is relatively simple and the same, why couldn't one build a 3000KW or 10,000KW one for not a whole lot more than a $200 500KW one?

And to pretty much eliminate your electric bill, or at least 80%, what would you need to generate? 10,000 KW? And do you HAVE to have batteries? What I understand is you could generate more than you are using and the rest would be lost, or if connected into your electric utility wouldn't it be sold to them and go into the grid?

Last, I saw something about a Tesla "cosmic" generator (which wanted $50 for the plans). It gave a simple (for you guys) diagram that said would show a scale model of this with Radio Shack stuff costing about $2, supposedly generating enough power to charge a cell phone. Anybody know anything about this and is it practical?

Thanks for any information!


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

KG007 said:


> Last, I saw something about a Tesla "cosmic" generator (which wanted $50 for the plans).


Something like this?

http://www.teslacoverup.com/

Pure snake oil. You'll get _some_ electricity, but not nearly anything like they imply.

The biggest thing that your post leads me to believe you don't understand is that electricity production and usage is measured in power PLUS time.

In theory, a very tiny trickle-source of electricity could be used over a span of months or years to charge up a monster battery that would then let you use all of that accumulated energy in a relatively short time. The fully charged battery would be capable of providing enough power for just about anything in your house. For a day.

Obviously, that's not very practical.

You are not going to build a 500 KW/Hr windmill for $200. Not even 5 KW/Hr.

In general, what you save on your electric bill by building one of these things is going to take 10-20 years to pay for itself. There's a thread or two in the Green Building section of this forum discussing such things.


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## KG007 (Oct 23, 2009)

*Scale vs cost*

Your point about the amount being produced is part of my question. We can make something small and get a trickle. There are big commercial windmill farms "on the grid" producing usuable commercial amounts but at a relatively higher cost than coal, gas, nuclear, hydro, etc.

So, two of the implied questions were: 1) why is the cost per kwh so high on wind when there is no ongoing fuel cost and it looks a lot cheaper to build than a nuclear or coal plant?, and 2) why is there no in-between size that could be put on your average house and generate 30% to 100%+ of househod demand for a reasonable price?

What are the limiting technical and cost factors on a small unit? It looks like to me producing some blades can't be that expensive, so where is the big cost?

Thanks for any education on this.

P.S. Had seen or read about some what Tesla had done, but never heard of a Tesla "cosmic generator" until I started looking at this. What the heck is it even supposed to be?


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

If you'd like to spend countless mind numbing hours researching "Zero Point" energy, try this link.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/


Everything from Bedini Motor/generators to all of Tesla's patents, Stan Meyer's Hydrogen generator, all sorts of devices.

All free for your enjoyment.


Or this guy in Australia has a generator that looks viable.

http://magnets4power.net/


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## Sar-Con (Jun 23, 2010)

So, two of the implied questions were: 1) why is the cost per kwh so high on wind when there is no ongoing fuel cost and it looks a lot cheaper to build than a nuclear or coal plant?, and 2) why is there no in-between size that could be put on your average house and generate 30% to 100%+ of househod demand for a reasonable price?

What are the limiting technical and cost factors on a small unit? It looks like to me producing some blades can't be that expensive, so where is the big cost?


A. Wind doesn't blow all the time, so what's your back-up? Keep in mind that as a society, we do not accept rolling blackouts and intermitent power. So back-up has to be 100%

B. I don't know the exact size and number to provide 30-100% power for homes, but do you want to see 100's of mini windmills in your neighborhood? What a disturbance/eyesore.

b.2. Not to mention the unknown health hazzards due to the static energy these put off

b.3. Additional insurance to have power generation (at least liablity for having spinning blades 50-100 feet in the air on your property) would likely negate any savings. 

C. What you see is just the tip of the ice-burg. Huge concrete foundations must be installed to prevent the over-turning of the windmills. Not to mention new infrastructure to get energy to the grid.

In closing, "free energy" is not cheap, as peopole are led to believe.


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## KG007 (Oct 23, 2009)

*Mind numbing? That's me!*

Many people say I already fit that discription!

Actually, unless it sounds pretty viable to build a home windmill economically and easily, that I can knock out in my limited spare time, I'm trying to avoid the mind numbing. Thought some people here could tell me how difficult and costly it would be to try one out.


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## KG007 (Oct 23, 2009)

*Valid points*



Sar-Con said:


> So, two of the implied questions were: 1) why is the cost per kwh so high on wind when there is no ongoing fuel cost and it looks a lot cheaper to build than a nuclear or coal plant?, and 2) why is there no in-between size that could be put on your average house and generate 30% to 100%+ of househod demand for a reasonable price?
> 
> What are the limiting technical and cost factors on a small unit? It looks like to me producing some blades can't be that expensive, so where is the big cost?
> 
> ...


A. Wasn't talking about being off the grid 100% of the time 100% of the usage. Was asking about the practicality/cost issue of generating 30% or more of household use. As I've read and talked to people, excess production, it any, can be sold back to the utility company and they pay you for it. Practically speaking, I don't see this as big money, or any money, but it says tapping into the existing utility companies is being done for anyone generating power.

B. Actually, I live in the country. But I see no problem if every house had a small windmill on it if it was practical and didn't create a lot of noise. Farms have had windmills for running pumps, etc. for century's. And many houses already have a "turbine" or windmill on them. The exhaust vents on most houses have spinning turbines and you can buy one at Home Depot for $12. Are they practical for generating electric? Probably nothing over a trickle. That's why the question - does one have to have a 6' or longer blade to generate enough power, and how much wind do you need for larger blades?

B.2. First I've heard of any danger from static energy hazard from blades 50' in the air. Are they putting off ANY static electric? If so, why haven't we worried about it with commercial windmills or the windmill on the farm in Kansas where Dorthy got blown over the rainbow?

B.3. Doubt any insurance companies would even know about it or have thought about it. Same question - if it is a big issue how did those pesky Dutch people and farmers get away with it all these years? How big a hazard can it be? We've had TV towers, mocrowave towers, chimneys, and big moving mechanical things called cars. If you have plastic blades and they come off, first it isn't very well built, and second, what is the risk of a light blade doing real damage?

C. Already have a "huge" TV antenna sticking up next to my house. If I put say 3' plastic blades on it should I expect the vibration to take it down? Have a barn where an 8' pole could be put on it - will it take it down? I've seen a video where some guy is using a small windmill in the desert on like a 3/4" plumbing pipe probably 30-50' tall, hinged pivoting pipe base set in a concrete plug, and nylon ropes for guy wires. Generating enough to run a radio and some small electical equipment out in the middle of nowhere. (Maybe close to Eustace and Murrial.)

Energy is already getting INTO the grid from these things by electric companies buying it and adding a second meter to your house. I don't know the details, that's why I'm asking.

Look, the question isn't CAN it be done - it already is being done and has been for years. The questions are is practical to do one for home that might be a kick for a small project, cut the electric bill enough to pay for it in a few months, and prove to my wife it can be done. If it can be done on a large commercial scale, though at higher cost, the question is can it be done on a modest scale at a reasonable cost?

I worked for a utility as a kid and my father worked for it for 40 years. We have some of the cheapest rates in the country. But look at all the cost a utility has. Huge generating plants, huge regulation, huge costs in developing the delivery system, huge costs in maintaining 24 hour service.

A home system would have what? 100' feet of wire? No requirement of having to meet peak loads? No requirement of producing anything at all if the wind isn't blowing or a part is broken? No environmental impact or regulation to meet? 

The idea of huge wind farms doesn't seem practical. I gather you can't get the production you can from coal plants or other type plants, and they are part of the grid with all the other issues just mentioned. Why would you put them in the ocean - don't have enough engineering and maintenance problems already? And electric utilities, for what they give you, are CHEAP. (You want to live without electricity?) And I'm the farthest thing from an environmental tree hugger. (Trees make good floors and cabinets.) 

But I'm not an electician and gather there are some technical issues, which no one has yet explained, about why spending a weekend or two wouldn't end up with some practical application for a few hundred invested.


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## 65535 (Jan 16, 2011)

The most economical way to harness free energy is solar, BUT it's not free just the energy. You'll need to invest thousands in the solar cells the battery bank and the load control circuitry that allows you to tie it into your house supply.

The power companies don't like you pumping 110/220 into your lines without disconnecting from the grid because you risk electrocuting one of their guys.

Basically you can do it, but to spend a few hundred in a weekend messing around is liable to get you hurt/killed and you'd be better of saving I to pay for your utilities cost.

An inverter to tie your DC generated electricity into your 110V AC house requirements will run you hundreds alone. $$$


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## Sar-Con (Jun 23, 2010)

KG007 said:


> A. Wasn't talking about being off the grid 100% of the time 100% of the usage. Was asking about the practicality/cost issue of generating 30% or more of household use. As I've read and talked to people, excess production, it any, can be sold back to the utility company and they pay you for it. Practically speaking, I don't see this as big money, or any money, but it says tapping into the existing utility companies is being done for anyone generating power.
> 
> B. Actually, I live in the country. But I see no problem if every house had a small windmill on it if it was practical and didn't create a lot of noise. Farms have had windmills for running pumps, etc. for century's. And many houses already have a "turbine" or windmill on them. The exhaust vents on most houses have spinning turbines and you can buy one at Home Depot for $12. Are they practical for generating electric? Probably nothing over a trickle. That's why the question - does one have to have a 6' or longer blade to generate enough power, and how much wind do you need for larger blades?
> 
> ...



Sure it can be done. I never said it couldn't. But Like Seinfield said if the "shortcut" were easy it would just be "the way". There was a time and place for windmills, pump towers, etc because there was no other option. 

I think you will find alot of new forces working on your tv antena when you attach blades that are meant to caputre the winds energy and turn it into power:shutup:

The problem with free energy is that is costs too much to be viable at this time. This cannot be understated. In Ontario, electrical rate are expected to double in the next couple of years, mostly due to the huge investment into wind and solar. This investment is to "save the earth" and not our pocket books. In ten years we'll know if it was a workthwhile journey, in the mean time, my bet is on no.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i don't think alot of that is true,but you will definitely be seeing more alternative power sources whether installed by individual homeowners
or cooperatives


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Take a look at these (also notice the Lowes logo on the top of the page)

Home Wind Power Generators

Home Study Wind Power Generation


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

100 A service gives you 24 kw.

If your monthly elec. bill is $100/mo then the system would pay for itself in 10 years if the installed cost is $12K. With maintenance costs included the installed price would have to be less than $12K.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

well thats assuming your electric bill is going to stay at 100 bucks a month:no:


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> well thats assuming your electric bill is going to stay at 100 bucks a month:no:


Yeah, 
http://www.examiner.com/nonpartisan...ur-electric-bill-50-percent-with-green-energy
where's Nancy Reagan's astrologer when you really need her??:sad:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i'm an Aquarius now:sad:


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## Sar-Con (Jun 23, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> i'm an Aquarius now:sad:



All this time my wife has been telling me she's a piscies, even had the tatoo. Turns out shes really an aquarius...can't believe after all these years, I should have known:w00t:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Well if you want to go there, I'm an Aries. Cantcha tell?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

you know they added a sign? i used to be a pisces:sad:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I myself would like to build a hydro set up. I have a customer that lives off the grid that powers his camp with a battery pack that is recharged off a 8k guardian. He has a good size brook that feeds the pond behind his home and he owns just under 500acres of property. I have spoken to him about using the water from the brook and he seemed interested in my idea. I am thinking of going up stream 400-500' and damming up the brook using PT 6"X6"s and putting in a rubberized liner. Then using 4" pvc pipe i can run down to the camp and construct a 8'-10' diameter water wheel out of PT plywood. I am thinking of using an older truck 4spd tranny as a gear box, if i use that output of the tranny as the input then the tranny input will become an overdrive. I figure the amount of water going over the wheel and the water wheels size will give tremendous torque and will be more than plenty to spin the tranny fast enough to spin a generator head. I was thinking of a 10k generator head from Northern Tool. If the RPMs are not high enough then a second tranny could be put in place and give more gears selections for a more desired RPM.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

I have been trying to figure out some designs for wind energy at home. I just need to buy materials and get to working. The deal with wind at home is that you have to have enough wind, Kansas is extremely windy, but you have to deal with objects that take the power away from the wind. So unless you can get it ~60' in the air.. you will have a hard time getting much of anything out of it.. that is unless you can figure out a way to capture the air lower to the ground.. which is what I have been working on. Taking wind speed readings at my place, different places around my place.. to see if there is some corridor of wind that I can take advantage of. This stuff is fun!


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