# HaHa: Home Depot antics exposed...



## Terrence (Jul 6, 2006)

Considering the experiences some of us have had at HD (whether working with them, or just buying), I thought you guys might enjoy learning that the news is on the story, and are turning up the heat. HD is going to probably be facing all kinds of lawsuits...

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/11128952/detail.html


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## HUDSONVALLEYEXT (Aug 29, 2006)

They told my mother in law $2,000 to install carpet in 3 small rooms. When they got to her home to install they changed the price to $3,000. I warned her about Home Depot


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

I'm keeping that link to show customers just in case any of them mention getting HD to quote against me!


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## Second Look (Jan 13, 2007)

What a PR fiasco. I see the makings of a class action suit.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Home Depot subs-out all their work to private contractors, no? If that's the case, this makes us all look bad. Not giving the customer what they have already paid for is really bad for business. 

This part about the price being too expensive is bull though. The entire industry is underpaid in my opinion. It's stories like this that makes us all look bad. Just like the stories of contractors going through customers refridgerators or whatever.


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

Maybe super Mike Holmes can take it up and devote a show
exposing these practices.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Magnettica said:


> The entire industry is underpaid in my opinion.


The market determines what we are worth, not some persons concept of what is correct. If you want a managed economy, you might find happiness in Cuba.

There are circumstances where pricing is beyond the control of the market for short periods (think the US auto industry). UAW members are paid substantially above market, and look what they have done to themselves and the US economy. In 1970 almost all cars driven in the US were American Made, today it's well under half.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

I hate HD

and I've said my opinions about them numerous times


but I have no sympathy or patience for any idiot that signs their contract ....

"But Home Depot - we trusted you" 


Please ...


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## Driftwood (Feb 15, 2004)

thank's ,you made My day!


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

This will have no effect on HD's business. They are a corporate machine with many methods for dealing with something like this. It will just go away. 

I agree with magnettica. This relfects poorly on all of us. 

The sad story is that there are tradespeople out there who are forced to work for Home Depot for whatever reason, (lack their own marketing skills for instance). I would bet that a lot of them are actually quite skilled, or at least were at one time. But being beaten down for miniscule wages can make a man do things he would not normally do, just to get by.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

George Z said:


> Maybe super Mike Holmes can take it up and devote a show
> exposing these practices.


George, Mike Holmes has a VERY lucrative contract WITH Home Depot. Why would he say anything bad about them?


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

Stone Mountain said:


> George, Mike Holmes has a VERY lucrative contract WITH Home Depot. Why would he say anything bad about them?


Did you see the Marketplace series on CBC?
Shouldn't Wendy Mesley have issued a disclaimer, 
before he was presented as a consumer advocate and a super hero?


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

George Z said:


> Did you see the Marketplace series on CBC?
> Shouldn't Wendy Mesley have issued a disclaimer,
> before he was presented as a consumer advocate and a super hero?


Why? None of the 13 contractors they taped were Home Depot guys. Just typical crooks.
Mike Holmes isn't perfect. He has plenty of issues as well, but they don't get publicized; the same way as Toyota manages to hide all its recalls, which add up to as much as GM. Toyota howeever has a bulletproff reputation, whill GM doesn't.
I watched 4 shows where Mikey made glaring mistakes on a deck, a porch, a rooftop deck, and on a fence project. When I wrote to the show,offereing free technical advice, I was told "thanks, but no thanks"


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## 1KingOfDrywall (Jan 14, 2007)

*I have BEEF with the HD......*

I hate when they tell a customer "What they should be paying" for labor affiliated with the producst theyare purchasing. I mentioned my story briefly in a prior post. I had a customer that for what ever reason decided to buy the materials and have them on the job before even taking quotes on the drywall. So obviously when I arrived he only wanted a quote to install and finish it. When I gave hime the price he laughed at me. He told me the Home Depot guy told him to"pay no more than $10 a sheet for labor"......LMAO 

In the end he called back, I got what I wanted...the money and the satisfaction. I had stated to him, if he could find any legitimate contractor to do it at that price.......I'd do it for FREE !!! PERIOD.
Home Depot employees are clueless. If any HD Rep. is seeing this...BAN YOUR EMPLOYEES FROM QUOTING PRICES!!!!:clap:


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

Holmes is a bigger idiot than Ty Pennington and discussing either on a forum such as this is a waste of time. They are in it for the bucks and fame and couldn't care less about the average consumer. The projects they portray and the methods and completion times are phony and misleading to the unknowing public. With charltans such as those guys around none of us have a chance in cleaning up our industry. Sears and Home Depot are challenged in courtrooms all across the country every day and that will never change. Nothing of any real consequence is being done about it and nothing will be. Hell Google the product "Stand and Seal" sold by Home Depot and see what you get. This product has killed people and ruined lives but there has been very little done about it. Why? 
CBS ran the story nationally a few times and now they too are mum. Why? Did somebody get to them?

I have personally attempted to draw the attention of national news programs to a few of these types of incidents and I have never had as much as a canned courtesy "Thank you for your comments" from any of these people. The sponsors are too big and money is lining too many pockets.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I really don't see how whatever Home Depot does unethically or stupidly has an effect on us or the industry.

Consumers are very used to big companies giving out bad service. Consumers are very aware of how smaller means more service, bigger means being lost in the shuffle as a number.

HD and any of us are not the same thing and I would wager that when push comes to shove consumers will lump HD into the big corporation label in their minds and very little if any connection will be made between *them *and *us*.

Marketing, marketing, marketing or branding, branding, branding... 

If you are small you sell your smallness and all the benefits that comes with it. Eventually you did such a good job selling your smallness you are now big so you change your tact and sell all the benefits that come with being big. 

It's all a game.


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## JMGP (Mar 29, 2005)

Chris G said:


> This will have no effect on HD's business. They are a corporate machine with many methods for dealing with something like this. It will just go away.
> 
> I agree with magnettica. This relfects poorly on all of us.
> 
> The sad story is that there are tradespeople out there who are forced to work for Home Depot for whatever reason, (lack their own marketing skills for instance). I would bet that a lot of them are actually quite skilled, or at least were at one time. But being beaten down for miniscule wages can make a man do things he would not normally do, just to get by.



No trade HAS to work for HD... you make your OWN choices... if a trade doesnt like the price that the depot gave them to perform the work... they dont have to do it...

BUT a trade that knowingly takes the low priced contract and cuts corners and hacks out a project just to make a few extra bucks... is a scumbag dirt merchant!!! There is no sympathy here....

HD doesnt reflect on how I do business... or anyone else who is honest!!!


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

it's like decorating your house with Walmart

(well, depending on what aisle you're on i guess:laughing: )


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

JMGP said:


> No trade HAS to work for HD... you make your OWN choices... if a trade doesnt like the price that the depot gave them to perform the work... they dont have to do it...
> 
> BUT a trade that knowingly takes the low priced contract and cuts corners and hacks out a project just to make a few extra bucks... is a scumbag dirt merchant!!! There is no sympathy here....
> 
> HD doesnt reflect on how I do business... or anyone else who is honest!!!


Perfectly said!


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> I really don't see how whatever Home Depot does unethically or stupidly has an effect on us or the industry.


 You make a good point...Reputation is everything. The more HD contracts with tradesmen who fail to show, over charge ext... the faster the word spreads and the less likely someone is to contract HD installs. It may even help our industry indirectly. TV shows and HD dumb down the tools and skills necessary to complete a quality remodel. DIYers only can handle so much until they're so frustrated they call us and are awed by the knowledge and efficiency, and professionalism displayed.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

boman47k said:


> .  Okay, that confuses me!
> 
> The consumer can and will more readedly put off building, homeimprovement, etc than buying fuel. With gas, the suppliers or *powers that be* will set the price to a greater extent than contractors ever will. Remember the fuel "shortages" of the seventies? Remember when the contractors of the country banned together and demanded more money for their services? Me neither. Folks have to work to get money to buy the fuel and everything dependent on the supply of fuel. thats everything. So yes, we will pay whatever we have to or can possibly pay for gas. Is it the same for the potential customers of contractors? Do they have to have their house painted now?? I'm with Thom on this one. I will do what I have to do. Not sure how you can have a market without consumers.


if someone wants their house painted and they call 20 guys, and all the contractors are charging $10,000 for the job, guess what, the customer will pay $10,000.

we've trained people that there is always a cheaper price out there.

i don't disagree that some people will choose not to have it done. 

but, when you have people in the same industry, in the same market, charging anywhere from $25 to $250 an hour, how can you expect the customer to be willing to pay a better rate to you? 

now before you talk about price fixing, etc, i've spoken with hundreds of contractors across the country, and one thing i've learned-

when we figured out our actual costs of doing business, we were all between $70 and $90 per _*man*_ hour.... that was 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

smaller companies had lower overhead, bigger companies larger, but when broken down per man hour, we all fell into that range.

so why don't we all charge what we need to? because we have a misguided notion that the customer won't pay it. but in reality they will.

so, you can operate in fear of failure mode, or you can operate in striving for success mode, the choice is up to all of us individually.


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## john elliott (Oct 23, 2005)

mahlere said:


> so, you can operate in fear of failure mode, or you can operate in striving for success mode, the choice is up to all of us individually.


The choice of mode is indeed up to us, but the market will decide whether or not it wants our product at the price we are demanding.

The economic law that applies is- as the price goes up so the demand goes down. 

John


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

And what about the issue of the requirements being so low allows every Tom, Dick and Harry to be a contractor. Lots of guys here are totally against licensing ("what, because I have a license from the state, that means I'm a contractor now, and haven't been for the last 20 years?") Lots of guys here are totally against permits ("Just a tax generating scam"). 

Face it, until a 4 year degree is required to become a contractor it's going to attract the lowest tier of our work force because the bar to entry is so low anybody can do it, *(for a little while)*, and that's the key right there. Anybody can do it and be a miserable f**k up and keep pulling everything downward for a little while.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Mahlere, back to economics class for you. And a rap on the knuckles with a ruler.

The market is comprised of all buyers and sellers. 

You don't seem to remember the late '70's early 80's. Mortgage rates hit 24%. If you wanted any work at all, you worked cheap. Most tradesmen looked for work outside the trades. Unfortunately, there was little work anywhere. At that time, the market said you weren't worth much. If your rate was $15 per hour, you got few, if any hours. If your rate was $8 and you were competent, you probably got some remodel and repair work, maybe a consistent 40 hours worth. The guys who charged full rate were full-rate-unemployed.

Years ago I was remodeling a restaurant. Talking to the plumbers helper, I learned he was a talented welder. He worked on the Alaska pipeline. On the pipeline he made $40 per hour. He believed he was worth $40 per hour as a welder. He wouldn't weld for less. As a welder in Albuquerque, he was unemployable. The market just wouldn't support $40 per hour for a welder, no matter how good he was. To him (certainly not to me) it made sense to work as an $8 per hour plumbers helper rather than lower himself to be a $15 per hour welder. Note, these are true, but mid 1980's prices.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> To him (certainly not to me) it made sense to work as an $8 per hour plumbers helper rather than lower himself to be a $15 per hour welder.


Good example of sticking to your guns when the market will not support you demands.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

thom,

are you really my dad in disguise? you sound like him.

why don't we just go back to the depression of 1929 for examples....

look at the current data...

let me put it this way...
if in order for me to buy a house, who's sale price is determined by the "market", i need to make $1500 week in salary.

if in order to pay for my health insurance, who's sale price is determined by the "market", i need to make $1200/month extra

if in order to buy my van, who's sale price is determined by the "market" , i need $500/month extra

if in order to pay my insurance, who's sale price is determined by the "market", i need $500/month extra

if in order to pay for gas for my truck, who's sale price is determined by the "market", i need $400/month extra

etc, etc, etc.

my point is, if my hourly cost is determined by the market prices for the things that I need to purchase to provide this service, the market can and will support my price.

in other words, I have to charge $80/hr for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, because of the cost of everything i need to purchase to provide my service, then the market has determined that I can be paid $80/hr for it.

It's the schmuck that doesn't grasp this concept and lowers the market bar to $50. Now he has created a false market. He has just created a gap of $30/hr that needs to be made up somewhere. It still costs me $80/hr, so what do I do? compete on price? cut corners? skip some non-essential items like health insurance?

Get rid of the misinformed and watch the market be willing to pay a higher rate for all of our services.


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## john elliott (Oct 23, 2005)

mahlere said:


> Get rid of the misinformed and watch the market be willing to pay a higher rate for all of our services.


Absolutely. Any thoughts on how to achieve this? 

Even if it could be achieved, though, there is still the concern that the market would, instead of paying the extra, simply do without the services that it felt it could no longer afford.

For instance the stuff that I sell, new kitchens, is certainly something that people can do without, and in fact many do, they simply continue with the kitchen that has served them OK for the last 20 years. At the moment I am surviving because there are enough people who choose to be able to afford my offerings. I'm fairly sure that that is not going to be the case in the next year or two, so I am finding ways of being able to offer something less expensive but which will still pay me OK.

John


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

john elliott said:


> Absolutely. Any thoughts on how to achieve this?
> 
> Even if it could be achieved, though, there is still the concern that the market would, instead of paying the extra, simply do without the services that it felt it could no longer afford.
> 
> ...


 :notworthy 

I appreciate a good pep talk now and then, but I have to wonder how many are willing to give up their toys that they "slave" for now in the name of a grassroots revolution by the countries' impoverished contractors. I remember growing up, it seemed non of the trades made a lot of money. There are still too many ppl that are and/or willing to work for yesteryears wages. Reality is this will always be, imo. Regaining ground lost would be.... doubt if many of us would be here to see it. Flame away.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Mahlere, you say you need $80 per hour to make it. $50 per hour will destroy you and the market. Currently, the top 10% make $95,000 annually yet you think that's not enough. You seem to think a tradesman can't live on $100,000 annually. You're living in some bizarre world where tradesmen can't possibly make it even if there income is in the upper 10%.

Around here, tradesmen don't earn in the upper 10%. If they do where you live, it's a strange place for sure.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

thom said:


> Mahlere, you say you need $80 per hour to make it. $50 per hour will destroy you and the market. Currently, the top 10% make $95,000 annually yet you think that's not enough. You seem to think a tradesman can't live on $100,000 annually. You're living in some bizarre world where tradesmen can't possibly make it even if there income is in the upper 10%.
> 
> Around here, tradesmen don't earn in the upper 10%. If they do where you live, it's a strange place for sure.


Thom,

did you feel the breeze as my point flew right past you?

forget the numbers, they are hypothetical.

my point was, in order to pay the market rate for all the things i need to live, I need $x per hour

I hold that this $x amount holds true within a few points to contractors across the country.

if contractors who haven't learned their costs charge $x-$30, they have now set the bottom of the market.

without those contractors, the bottom would be $x/hr.

the market would pay that bottom rate of $x/hr.

that was my point. we have created an unrealistic and artificial bottom of the market. we've done it too ourselves. we've taught the people that we aren't worth anything.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

John,

imagine if the market for your work was double what it is now, you would only have to do 1/2 as many jobs for the same money (relatively)

the problem is that many other items, products, services, etc, have doubled in cost in the past few years, we just haven't kept up with the times.


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## NickofTime (Mar 12, 2007)

I was inquiring because I thought I was the only one getting a discount from HD but I am getting a bigger discount than the 2% and I think it's because Lowe's is being built in my neighbourhood. We've got 2 HDs fighting for my business now. One of them won't even offer me 2% or anything for that matter where the other one is offering more than 2%. And that's the same company. Go figure.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Mahlere, I challenge your assumptions.

Companies don't have the same costs everywhere. Some pay wages much higher than others. Some drive more expensive trucks. Some have higher efficiencies built into their systems.

A few guys working below market price will not reduce the market price. The market price is determined by the least efficient/most expensive company that can stay busy in a specific market/time. Any higher and you just won't find work/will be out of business, and no longer a factor. Any lower and the buyer gets a deal. 

The lowbal can only set the price when there are enough that they can satisfy the demand. This then is the market price. They are no longer lowbal, they are at market.

The high priced guy will be out of work if there is not enough demand to employ him at his price. 

Think of this as a thermometer with the low price at the bottom, the high price at the top. The guys will be employed, from the bottom up, until you hit the temperature/market line. If the demand relative to the supply grows, that line goes up. If the demand relative to the supply shrinks, that line goes down.

No one makes the market, we all, as a group, do. That includes the workers, the companies, and the consumers.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

thom,

i'll be honest with you, i stand by what I said. I realized that attempting to really explain it over the internet is too difficult for me. but as a recap.

the low priced guy (the one charging below his cost) sets an artifically low perceived bottom of the market

if the market prices for the items i need to run my business dictate that i charge a certain price, no matter how high it seems, that means the market can and will support it. after all, this is the same market that supports the prices on the items that I have to pay for (insurance, trucks,office space, etc)

yes, i can live like a pauper (used trucks, no health insurance, no vacation, etc) in order to reduce my OH to unrealistic levels, so that I can meet the perceived market rate.

while my research is by no way scientific, it's a real sampling of electrical contractors from NJ to California.

too many contractors don't know the market rate for real. They know bits and pieces, from which they come up with their pricing. right or wrong.

if you determine your costs, you determine your life.

if you let the market determine your costs, the market determines your life.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

HD carries the GC license, 1million self insured bond and provides a security blanket for the H/O. They hire only contractors who are dully licensed and insured. If the sub doesn't perform, they are out and HD will make it right. A few years ago HD changed the Ca. law to allow GCs to do jobs requiring less than 3 trades (1 or more) for that I commend them. 
So why is the media scum harping on them ?


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## Hobroom (Jan 30, 2007)

ha! that's funny to see someone mention Mike Holmes on here.

What is the story on this guy anyway? Why does everyone think he's such a super hero? I don't get it.

You see him punching drywall holes with his fists and wonder how many times he's hit a stud, or one of those hidden junction boxes, doing that :laughing: Oh well, at least he knows how to use a voltage tester..

Just remember kids, "a screw is better than a nail anyday" :no: 



Stone Mountain said:


> Why? None of the 13 contractors they taped were Home Depot guys. Just typical crooks.
> Mike Holmes isn't perfect. He has plenty of issues as well, but they don't get publicized; the same way as Toyota manages to hide all its recalls, which add up to as much as GM. Toyota howeever has a bulletproff reputation, whill GM doesn't.
> I watched 4 shows where Mikey made glaring mistakes on a deck, a porch, a rooftop deck, and on a fence project. When I wrote to the show,offereing free technical advice, I was told "thanks, but no thanks"


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

Mikey must employ an army of defenders. You should visit his website forums sometime. Be careful not to criticize Mikey or they will send you nasty emails and quickly ban you from participating in their forums. Mikey by-the-way doesn't participate in his own forums, he leaves that up to his flunkies - Mikey is an arrogant low-caliber no-talent idiot as far as I'm concerned. His show should be called "Holmes the Hack".


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## hrscammisa (Mar 9, 2007)

Home depot is only as good its contractors. In are area the subs for them are all hacks a bunch of no brain no talent idiots. But thats all we have here I'm not kidding thats it them and one rip off lumber yard. I deal with one person at the pro desk and thats all. So I know my sh-- will be right. and I get a great price on my stuff like when osb droped to 5.25 a sheet she called me and told me about it.so I could stock up got 3 bunks.Had A gal call last night for cabinets she said HD was bad I said no the installers were the problem they were the ones telling every one when they would be there and never show and when they did it was sh-- work.


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## bcf (Mar 20, 2006)

Bud Cline said:


> Try calling them on the phone. See how long it takes to talk to someone that can help get things straightened out. You are placed on hold for long periods of time, calls are dropped, you are vollied back and forth between reps until your connection just dissappears.
> 
> These people know exactly what they are doing.


Sounds like the  DMV!


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

thom said:


> Mahlere, you say you need $80 per hour to make it. $50 per hour will destroy you and the market. Currently, the top 10% make $95,000 annually yet you think that's not enough. You seem to think a tradesman can't live on $100,000 annually. You're living in some bizarre world where tradesmen can't possibly make it even if there income is in the upper 10%.
> 
> Around here, tradesmen don't earn in the upper 10%. If they do where you live, it's a strange place for sure.


HAHHAHAHHAA


Thom ... around here ... you are *POOR* if you are making less than 100K


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## Hobroom (Jan 30, 2007)

That's a coincidence you say that. A friend of mine is a member on that forum and he was telling me not long ago that they kicked this guy off for saying the name of a company who hired him. Apparently the rule is on that forum you're not even allowed to talk about the names of companies that haven't actually been on the Holmes on Homes show and are okayed by Holmes himself. can you believe that?!?

The thing that I read is that the public image of Holmes and Home Depot is supposed to be him helping to clean up their install department. I guess they're admitting they have a problem.  no sh*t



Bud Cline said:


> Mikey must employ an army of defenders. You should visit his website forums sometime. Be careful not to criticize Mikey or they will send you nasty emails and quickly ban you from participating in their forums. Mikey by-the-way doesn't participate in his own forums, he leaves that up to his flunkies - Mikey is an arrogant low-caliber no-talent idiot as far as I'm concerned. His show should be called "Holmes the Hack".


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

boman47k said:


> :notworthy
> 
> I appreciate a good pep talk now and then, but I have to wonder how many are willing to give up their toys that they "slave" for now in the name of a grassroots revolution by the countries' impoverished contractors. I remember growing up, it seemed non of the trades made a lot of money. There are still too many ppl that are and/or willing to work for yesteryears wages. Reality is this will always be, imo. Regaining ground lost would be.... doubt if many of us would be here to see it. Flame away.


Have to agre with you. As a new business, I'm working much cheaper than I'd like to be just to get my name and work out there. (probably my bad for not doing more advertising) I'm making a living, but sure ain't making money. I understand this and I really don't want to be the lowballer, but want to continue making my living. I started last year on my own and am still realizing what my "real" overhead is and as I do my rates are going up. As a new business I took my loss last year and probably will again this year, I knew that going in. Until I establish a customer base and a reputation for doing quality work for a reasonable, but not cheap rate, I'll have this. Bad thing is, in the rural area I'm in, everyone with a hammer and pickup is a contractor......back to the licensing, permits and inspections, they would do the trade wonders if they were actually enforced in this area. JMO


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## AbeBarker (Jan 3, 2007)

After reading this entire thread, I didn't see much of anything said about the products Home Creepo sells.

Wood Srews... Marked up soft metal that will snap if the pilot hole is 
not bored to just a fraction of a multi-milimeter smaller than the screw diameter.


Power tools... Last two circular saws I stupidly purchased from them 
both had fences that wouln't sit at a perfect 90 
degrees perpendicular to the saw blade.


A "Rockler" employee once told me he cross 
referenced the model numbers of the power tools
his store sells with the model numbers of the
tools Home Depot sells and found they match 
but Home Depots had several 0's added to the
end of the model numbers.
His theory is Home Depot pays respectalble names
like Dewalt or Porter Cable to put a case over a 
tool that was fabricated by another more inferior
company.

2x4s Growth rings that havn't hit puberty.
Plywood "Diluted glue between the layers

They mostly sell Masonite doors. Crap


My point is they sell inferior products. The more I use them the more I realise they only sell ****.

And in my area all the young men from the hinterlands of Rio de Janiero are loading up the carts.

They are open late at night and on weekends. thats the clincher for me.


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## Tonkadad (Jun 22, 2005)

mahlere said:


> thom,
> 
> i'll be honest with you, i stand by what I said. I realized that attempting to really explain it over the internet is too difficult for me. but as a recap.
> 
> ...


Wow dude, I see the light. Your analysis is so brilliantly simple, thanks for keeping at it. It took me awhile to get my brain around what you were saying.


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## North Country (Jan 14, 2006)

"if you determine your costs, you determine your life.

if you let the market determine your costs, the market determines your life."

AMEN


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