# One more efflorescence question to add to the list.



## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

I get a call from my old boss and mentor. He was just picking my brain and I told him I would post up here. I have not seen any of the work, but I know the masons and they do very good work.

Here's the question.

One masonry company doing the veneer on the house, one masonry company doing the landscape stonework. As far as know both masons are doing the same style work.
One mason uses Type N, one mason uses Portland. The work with the Portland is efflorescing . 
Personally I would say our local sand and the stone itself would make more of a difference than using mortar mix or Portland.

Possibly the Portland guys work is getting more weather on it. 
I think one of the masons is Raskolinkov (forgive my spelling Duane)

Maybe he can enlighten us. I'll PM him and try to get him in here.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Portland/lime is more prone to certain types of efflorescence. Is it lime run (spot and/or "bird-****" trails) or blushing (general area efflorescence)?


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

The Portland guy is just using Portland and sand. One would think side by side the mortar mix would bleed more.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Is he using calcium in it?

Dunno if calcium causes it, all I came up with.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

If there is no lime in it then there is excess salt in the sand or he is using calcium as an accelerator. It could also be excess moisture behind the wall if they are retaining walls. Need more info and pics.


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

Karl,
I'm so surprised this showed up here 'cause I sorta thought I lived in this little vacuum. I'm guessing that it's the job I'm on based on the above info. I stopped using portland and sand a few years ago for my stonework and started using type n and there has been NO bleeding at all. I remember you commented that you had good luck and I followed suit. Since then I've yet to have any efflorescence rearing it's ugly head! You and I both learned from you know who, this is not what we learned and I think we both stepped out of the box. The other mason contractor on this job is very high end, I just feel the difference is in the mix! My work is not bleeding.

D.


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

what cement is he using ? quikrete?


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

At all!!!

D.


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

Type 2.

D.


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

This'll be cute, usually when I post the thread dries up. When I post about cooking on another site it's the opposite. I'm quite good at both, and I've been known to illustrate as well. Go figure!!!

D.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Type I/II or Type II?


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

T.
I believe it's type II. I'm almost sure. It's hard to keep track of what everyone else is doing. Unless it's Goldsworthy or Serra!

D.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Is there a diff in the composition of 1 or 2?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Yes, slightly. I was just more curious what was available. For example, here, of the 3 common portlands available, only one is a Type I/II, the others are all rated Type I.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

seems it depends on whats on sale when the suppliers buy cement. Sometimes Type I, sometimes Type I/II
There are slight differences. I know Type II produces less heat during cure. That's only an issue when pouring large structural stuff.
I think I also read that Type II will resist more corrosive environments.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Type II is sulfate resistant.


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## dbrons (Apr 12, 2010)

You guys are jogging my memory now. I had a notation on the plan for an elevator shaft , and escalator base I built last year at a mall in San Diego.

It required type two cement in the concrete for any of our work in contact with the ground. I had never heard of this and I called the concrete Co. and they said theirs was type 1/2 and met all requirements for type two. They had an engineers certification to that effect and my inspector had me get a copy of it for his records.

Just interesting in a way because the type two was supposedly more resistant to moisture. 

Dave


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*mortar*

From what i remember reading ,all gray opc have a slight chance for efflorescence,some brands more than others. I have not read the types 1-3 have any bearing on matter (that does not mean they do not). I have also read,the ONLY type of opc with no chance for efflorescence is the white,which i believe is only produced in Canada.


A matter worth looking into is if the material (masonry units) are in direct contact with soil and uncovered they may wick up salts ,leading to what is sometimes refered as new building BLOOM. Usually,it will go away on its own in less than a year.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

White is produced at 4 plants in the US (at least) Riverside CA, Lehigh PA, Waco TX, and someplace in FL. It is also made in Turkey and Mexico (at least).


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

T.
You're a fountain of information!!!

D.


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