# Hardwood floor installation



## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

Does anyone have a link or can send me something that would show specs on prefinished hardwood installations? I installed a floor about a month ago and just got a call from the customer that was yelling at me about the 1st 3 rows having been face nailed along the wall. She says that that is the wrong way and completely unacceptable. I just need some literature to take with me tomorrow to show that's standard practice. And I'm not talking like every board is nailed. It's not excessive. She's overracting completely and I just want some back up. This is the same customer that told me that there should be no putty or nail holes in prefinished crown we installed on cabinetry. F ing people.


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## dkillianjr (Aug 28, 2006)

Hey Eric, 


Heres a PDF file I found over on bruce's website, maybe it will help you. Hey you can't have all normal customers:laughing:

http://www.armstrong.com/pdbupimages/190071.pdf


Dave


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

Thanks Dave!!


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

• Rip ﬁnal row to ﬁt and face-nail. If the ﬁnal row is less than 1″ (2.5 cm) in width, it should ﬁrst be glued to the previous
UNINSTALLED row and the two joined units should be face-nailed as one.

I like to use a color matched filler on the face nails in prefinished flooring.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

I hate the face nailing look, but what else can you do? Color matched putty helps and glueing the pieces down to the floor. But I think in the end you still have to face nail it. The few times I lay flooring I fill all holes. Most installers I seen around my area do not fill the holes and dont even own a MM or jamb saw. Just butt and go.


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## Hardly Working (Apr 7, 2005)

We recently went through this same issue. My boss had his regular guy put down a prefinished Brazilian Cherry and he faced nailed the Chit out of it. It looked like AZZ. Stair treads, bullnoses plain and simple piss poor job. His regular gig is un-finished hardwood. Had to bring in a second guy to make it right. He used a new hot glue gun with special sticks. We tested it on some scraps and it bonded them tight. He also used a Mohawk color match kit to fix what few nail holes were left. Cost the boss a pretty penny to make it right.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Its a touhg call and pre finish will alwasy get you called out on this as putty/color fillers neevr match perfect and hide them..

ideally, the first course you can finish nail to the back side of the boardx close to thte wall with glue under it..the next 2 courses can then be finish nailed through the tongues , again with glue under them..
you can then nail away with the nailer easily..

reverse the procedure for closing up the the far wall..

if you nail your first and last course correctly, they will most likely cover with trim..

rather than try to battle as you are both correct in essence...

just rip the course out where you can and repair them ..maybe split material vs labor cost..

bottomline if it doesn't look right, she is right..no?

if you can visibly notice nails from standing and looking..

in my opinion..its wrong...


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

18 guage to hold while glue dries. Smaller hole is less noticable


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## Hardly Working (Apr 7, 2005)

pinwheel said:


> 18 guage to hold while glue dries. Smaller hole is less noticable


I'll 2nd that. The first guy used a 15ga. He could have used a 20ga. shotgun it couldn't have looked any worse. That glue gun the 2nd guy used held the nose of the treads so tight that test piece tore the wood loose from the back of the board. 

Do you have a T&A supply near you? (No not that kind )


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

Gotta love the over thinkers. Here is a link. It's from Lumber Liquidators, but it specifically says to top nail the first 3 rows. Looks like some info that might help you. 

http://blog.lumberliquidators.com/l...ll-bellawood-prefinished-hardwood-floors.html


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

RhodesHardwood said:


> Gotta love the over thinkers. Here is a link. It's from Lumber Liquidators, but it specifically says to top nail the first 3 rows. Looks like some info that might help you.
> 
> http://blog.lumberliquidators.com/l...ll-bellawood-prefinished-hardwood-floors.html[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

This actually what LL write Rhodes...


actually have to give them a little more credit than i thought..


2) Snap on the floor a chalk line connecting the two floor marks. While maintaining the expansion space, place the groove side along the starting wall and align the tongue side of the first row of boards on the chalk line. THE FIRST THREE ROWS MUST BE STRAIGHT.
(3)* Pre-drill and top nail the first row of boards only*. Hand nail the following rows until nailing machines can be used.
(4) Next, rack-out or lay-out the floor for best visual appearance and adjust before nailing the floor.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

I would never and will never glue any rows to save a few top nails. What you have done is eliminated the room for expansion by anchoring those rows. They need to be able to breathe. If a homeowner has an issue, it's your job to effectively communicate and educate why they are there. A floor is held together with nails, and part of a prefinished floor install is puttying the top nail holes. I use a wax pencil, or minwax putty with a dab of poly from a QTip. To eliminate some face nails, i sometimes shoot through the side tongue on the right side of each board. 
Nine out of ten customer issues can be resolved with some education.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

I should add that all of my top nails when starting a floor are hidden. they are covered by base, I also blind nail that row, then blind nail with my 15 guage till i can get the gun on it


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## SclafaniBuilder (Feb 18, 2011)

I reverse the tongue to go into the wall. Rip the tongue off of some boards and glue them in. Finish the last few rows with 16ga into the tongue. Then face nail the last row so the base covers it, it works 99% of the time, you should never see any nail holes, I believe the OPs last few rows were excessive and they should be fixed.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

I love reading alot of this stuff on here. Alot of it is completely incorrect, but I guess if the check cashed good enough.


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

Who in their right mind would face nail prefinished hardwood flooring that wouldnt be covered by a base or shoe moulding. I think youre boned on this one man. 

first row only and only in the 3/4" of the board against the wall. U have to come off the next three rows with shooting the tongue with your gun. then you can start hitting it with the flooring stapler. Otherwise u run the risk of pushing those boards around


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

ArtisanRemod said:


> I would never and will never glue any rows to save a few top nails. What you have done is eliminated the room for expansion by anchoring those rows. They need to be able to breathe.



this statement is completely false..dont know where you get that..

adhesives today are made to be elastometric allowing for normal expansion for solid or engineered.

because finish nails are being used for anchoring..as I said to cover by base in first course only. and through tongue.successive course are then finish nailed through tongue or blind nailed with some adhesive to ensure hold and not snap crackle pop or squeak..this is usually the next 2 courses...nailed and glued..until you can use you stapler/nailer..

not sure who your other posts are meant to be for..but I have been a flooring installer and finisher for 22 years... contracting for 17 years..NWFA accredited..completed courses.. and just alot of jobsite experience doing what is right and finding ways to avoid complaints..

if you can see nails from a standing position..it is wrong..and there are ways to avoid it.PERIOD

this isnt un-finish where filler and stains will hide it..


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

ArtisanRemod said:


> I should add that all of my top nails when starting a floor are hidden. they are covered by base, I also blind nail that row, then blind nail with my 15 guage till i can get the gun on it



this makes more sense but is contradictory..if you are top nailing 3 rows how can it cover by base?..

the first course only top nailed in position that the base or shoe can cover,...

maybe occasionally a 2nd course in random ares..but that's pushing it..

closing up to cabinets etc..can demand some more top nailing..but minimal..

adhesive is used as finish nailers are NOT adequate fasteners for a solid 3/4 floor..thats why we use special nails cleats and or staples..


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

ArtisanRemod said:


> I love reading alot of this stuff on here. Alot of it is completely incorrect, but I guess if the check cashed good enough.



I love reading you trying to correct good info with bad info.

Polyurathane glues will move with expansion. Bostik best, PL glues are made for just this application.

Last 2 courses can't be blind nailed.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

I was responding to the suggestion by Gary to glue the floor down. No mention was made of using construction adhesive up to that point. In my near20 years and a million feet of installing floors I've never glued the last courses of a prefinished floor, and I wont be starting anytime soon. I stand by my methods, and others are free to follow their own. I think I'll refrain from chiming in in the future, but will keep reading. Thanks


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

ArtisanRemod said:


> I was responding to the suggestion by Gary to glue the floor down. No mention was made of using construction adhesive up to that point. In my near20 years and a million feet of installing floors I've never glued the last courses of a prefinished floor, and I wont be starting anytime soon. I stand by my methods, and others are free to follow their own. I think I'll refrain from chiming in in the future, but will keep reading. Thanks



Come on man, put your big boy pants on & keep sharing your experience. We don't always have to agree on how we do things.

BTW, since it seems important to share our years of experience, I've been in the flooring game for 17 years & in the construction business for 27 years.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

ArtisanRemod said:


> I love reading alot of this stuff on here. Alot of it is completely incorrect, but I guess if the check cashed good enough.



you cant go making a comment like this,,leaving it out there for anyone to assume what you meant or whom you meant it for..

a remark like this you should refrain from..that comment screams you guys don't know Sheeeitt ..

top nailing 3 rows is not correct and is excessive and compromises a pre finished look.. from the experience you claim to have, i don't know how you can see it any other way.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

jamestrd said:


> you cant go making a comment like this,,leaving it out there for anyone to assume what you meant or whom you meant it for..
> 
> a remark like this you should refrain from..that comment screams you guys don't know Sheeeitt ..
> 
> top nailing 3 rows is not correct and is excessive and compromises a pre finished look.. from the experience you claim to have, i don't know how you can see it any other way.


 I never said that i top nail 3 rows. show me where i did. "Claim" to have experience? Why would I lie? Relax dude. Like I said, I'll go back to flooring in real life, I'm not cut out for debating technique on the internet. Ciao


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## parquetselvon (Mar 15, 2011)

you are totally right jamestrd / pinwheel / Bastien1337/
Here in Belgium, don't ever put a nail in a prefinish timber flooring, never, never,
I use wooden wedge along the wall while placing the first 3 rows with glue of course. EricK, I got a friend like you here in Belgium, he so called himself remodeling expert, but screwed up severals jobs, laying and sanding too, where I had to go to repair his mess. Well he is a JACK OF ALL TRADE BUT MASTER OF NONE, I respect people like jamestrd /pinwheel / they are MASTERS OF ONE TRADE;

QUESTION
When laying a floating wooden floor, do you nail the first 3 rows, or you just put wedges againt the wall?


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

parquetselvon said:


> you are totally right jamestrd / pinwheel / Bastien1337/
> Here in Belgium, don't ever put a nail in a prefinish timber flooring, never, never,
> I use wooden wedge along the wall while placing the first 3 rows with glue of course. EricK, I got a friend like you here in Belgium, he so called himself remodeling expert, but screwed up severals jobs, laying and sanding too, where I had to go to repair his mess. Well he is a JACK OF ALL TRADE BUT MASTER OF NONE, I respect people like jamestrd /pinwheel / they are MASTERS OF ONE TRADE;
> 
> ...


Where else but the internet wonderland can one assume another is a master craftsman having never seen their
work.

To answer your question, I top nail and blind nail the first row. The top nails are in the first 1/2" of the board (using a 15 gauge finish gun which apparently isn't suitable lol), to be covered later by the baseboard. I stand by my statement that i use top nails in a prefinished floor. If sometimes will use a 16 gauge through the top. All of this really depends on the wood, the location, the amount of light, the customer etc etc. My experience the direction I go. If you angle your finish gun as you shoot it, and place the nail in a spot with certain grain if you can, the hole is difficult to see at standing height when puttied and finished. Certainly not unsightly.
Its good to see you guys have good luck with your methods, thats what counts.


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

if the floor is a nail down floor, i nail it down lol. Top nail, blind nail first row. If i can wedge the wall i will so i can get on the stapler faster, usually soft touches for a couple rows. 

I dont usually glue the first row, but i dont see anything wrong with that. i'll glue the last row in if its a small rip.


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## parquetselvon (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, here in Belgium, we glued completely the floor on concrete screed. I'm having an ecological issue with some clients for the moment. I would like to learn more about the best subfloor to put on a concrete slab / best way to fastened the boards, staple or nail, type of gauge/ I do not have any knowledge about that. I'm sure you guys will be able to help me. In fact the way you work is more ecological than us, because I use for 1000 sqft (100m²) + - 300 pounds of glue.I would like to give an alternative of your system. Best subfloor on slab, I can't nailed, screwed the subfloors on the screed, because there are so many heating pipes, water pipes, electrical stuff underneaf the concrete screed. What best to do?


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Where else but the internet wonderland can one assume another is a master craftsman having never seen their
> work.
> 
> To answer your question, I top nail and blind nail the first row. The top nails are in the first 1/2" of the board (using a 15 gauge finish gun which apparently isn't suitable lol), to be covered later by the baseboard. I stand by my statement that i use top nails in a prefinished floor. If sometimes will use a 16 gauge through the top. All of this really depends on the wood, the location, the amount of light, the customer etc etc. My experience the direction I go. If you angle your finish gun as you shoot it, and place the nail in a spot with certain grain if you can, the hole is difficult to see at standing height when puttied and finished. Certainly not unsightly.
> Its good to see you guys have good luck with your methods, thats what counts.



Jason,

this isnt the way your your point came across at first..

your subsequent remarks furthered the confusion.and came off with condescending.

and how did i know you would be back for more?.:laughing:

glue under the boards ensures a good hold for the first few that will be finish nailed..and yes top nailing the first row to cover by trim has been said from the beginning.
Finish nails and nailers are not recommended fasteners for solids..i know we are talking one row..and sure you can use it..we use them too..but a little glue goes a long way..much longer than a finish nail and reduces the amount of top mails needed..
this helps the first few and last few..

beats they way I first learned of pre drilling and using screw nails..right to 2nd to last course..then top nail..

when we do pre-finsihed..there are no visible nails..


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

parquetselvon said:


> QUESTION
> When laying a floating wooden floor, do you nail the first 3 rows, or you just put wedges againt the wall?



wedge the wall...you can use the material itself against the wall or cut 
a jig or guide..

closing up just use little angle wedge cuts to hold while glue dries is gluing..if click lock obviously your done..


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Where else but the internet wonderland can one assume another is a master craftsman having never seen their
> work.



your no stop and its obvious why you cause your own confusion..
your too busy trying to being sarcastic rather than actually reading..

the guy said MASTERS OF ONE TRADE...not master craftsman..
and its obvious why..because you promote yourself as a remodeler..not a flooring installer, contractor etc..and since we are talking wood flooring it is even more specific..

which Pin and I are specialized in..


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

parquetselvon said:


> Yes, here in Belgium, we glued completely the floor on concrete screed. I'm having an ecological issue with some clients for the moment. I would like to learn more about the best subfloor to put on a concrete slab / best way to fastened the boards, staple or nail, type of gauge/ I do not have any knowledge about that. I'm sure you guys will be able to help me. In fact the way you work is more ecological than us, because I use for 1000 sqft (100m²) + - 300 pounds of glue.I would like to give an alternative of your system. Best subfloor on slab, I can't nailed, screwed the subfloors on the screed, because there are so many heating pipes, water pipes, electrical stuff underneaf the concrete screed. What best to do?



selvin...

im not sure how things are done there..but the slab over the pipes and wires should be thick enough that you can fasten to.

structurally it would have to be to support weight and load..but for some reason it truly isnt..you can float the subfloor..

Here you can take a 3/4 " thick CDX and rip it down to 3 16" panels.
stagger them and lay the floor right across with a moisture barrier underneath like a 6 mil plastic 

nail the floor directly to the plywood strips..this is a much newer approach. 

a more traditional approach is to lay 1st 1/2" layer parallel to the walls loosely over a vapor barrier..you can even add a sound deadening foam underlay as well.

you then fasten a 2nd layer of 1/2" (sorry dont know millimeters)
on a 45 degree angle using 1/2 x 3/4 staples and GLUE..

you can then install your floor and nail across this with 11/2" nails or staples over some felt or similar paper underlay.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

you can also supplement the 2 1/2" layers with 2 3/8" layers or one layer first layer 1/2" and 2nd 3/8 if there are height concerns.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

parquetselvon said:


> you are totally right jamestrd / pinwheel / Bastien1337/
> Here in Belgium, don't ever put a nail in a prefinish timber flooring, never, never,
> I use wooden wedge along the wall while placing the first 3 rows with glue of course. EricK, I got a friend like you here in Belgium, he so called himself remodeling expert, but screwed up severals jobs, laying and sanding too, where I had to go to repair his mess. Well he is a JACK OF ALL TRADE BUT MASTER OF NONE, I respect people like jamestrd /pinwheel / they are MASTERS OF ONE TRADE;
> 
> ...


Where do you get off associating me with a friend of yours that's "screwed up several jobs?" First of all I have always nailed the 1st - 2nd row. Second this was a boarder and inlay so there was more than just one wall that got it. I spoke with client calmed her down. My mistake was I used minwax putty that seemed to lighten up after a while. I am going back with a match from Mohawk using a wax putty stick. All is good. Thanks for all the input!


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

Holy crap. Glad you got a satisfactory resolution Eric K. Not sure what I learned here except Jamestrd could give my ex wife a run for her money in the arguing department:laughing:


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Some urethane adhesives can harm more than benefit, they dry out and may prevent wood to expand(like PL 200, 375, 400). I suggest using PL Premium only which stays somehow elastometric. 
Now PL Premium Fast Grab is available, I love it.:thumbup::clap:
I totally agree with james and others, use minimal visible nails, fill them with colored caulk, I use ColorFlex, which has over 100 colors to choose.


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

Eric K said:


> Where do you get off associating me with a friend of yours that's "screwed up several jobs?" First of all I have always nailed the 1st - 2nd row. Second this was a boarder and inlay so there was more than just one wall that got it. I spoke with client calmed her down. My mistake was I used minwax putty that seemed to lighten up after a while. I am going back with a match from Mohawk using a wax putty stick. All is good. Thanks for all the input!


Im glad you got your resolution. Im still unsure of why you'd need to face nail down anything that wasnt the first row. Youd have plenty of area through the side or end to blind nail the inlay. 

You have any pics?


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

When I go back ill snap a few when I go back to finish. Waiting on handles for built in we did also.


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

We install 500 - 600K square feet of nail down flooring per year. James, and Pinwheel have it right. We blind nail, and glue the first row. The last two rows are glued, while the last row is also wedged, pre-drilled, and hand nailed under the base molding. You will never see a top nail on any of our jobs.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

astor said:


> Some urethane adhesives can harm more than benefit, they dry out and may prevent wood to expand(like PL 200, 375, 400). I suggest using PL Premium only which stays somehow elastometric.
> Now PL Premium Fast Grab is available, I love it.:thumbup::clap:
> I totally agree with james and others, use minimal visible nails, fill them with colored caulk, I use ColorFlex, which has over 100 colors to choose.


PL premium & bostiks best is all we stock in the trailer.


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## parquetselvon (Mar 15, 2011)

Sorry ErICK, I just gave an example, but surely did not want to associate him with you, thing which is impossible to do without having seen your site work. Excuse me for that misunderstanding


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## parquetselvon (Mar 15, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> selvon...
> 
> im not sure how things are done there..but the slab over the pipes and wires should be thick enough that you can fasten to.
> 
> ...


Is it possible to hava an idea of the CDX product, if you can rip it to 3/16", it must not be too large, 
Yes, the screed must be at least 50mm (2inches over the pipes), but unfortunately in some areas we have less, fixing into those screed is very risky. We do have multiplex pannel, but without tongue and groove, use it once, it was a nighrmare, got to sand all the links to level it. We do have OSB, but not good to nail in.Use osb for glued installation. Here we have SENCO and Bostich represented in Belgium, you guys are used to those nailers or staplers, could you give me the best to buy, the gauge etc...


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

parquetselvon said:


> Is it possible to hava an idea of the CDX product, if you can rip it to 3/16", it must not be too large,
> Yes, the screed must be at least 50mm (2inches over the pipes), but unfortunately in some areas we have less, fixing into those screed is very risky. We do have multiplex pannel, but without tongue and groove, use it once, it was a nighrmare, got to sand all the links to level it. We do have OSB, but not good to nail in.Use osb for glued installation. Here we have SENCO and Bostich represented in Belgium, you guys are used to those nailers or staplers, could you give me the best to buy, the gauge etc...


CDX is rough grade plywood.. No tongue n groove... Not 3/16. three 16 inch strips.. They are 4ft x 8ft sheets of plywood cut into 3....understand?


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> PL premium & bostiks best is all we stock in the trailer.


The new look throws me off tho...but i love me some pl.....pl everything!


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## parquetselvon (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes I catch you, no need tongue and groove then, will give this a try, they use it here in timber house construction. thank you jamestrd. 

http://www.aerfast-fastening.com/products.asp?language=fr&productgroupid=5&subgroupid=2483

which one to choose, well it's in french, one is manuel, the other is with air

or

http://www.bostitch.com/default.asp?TYPE=CATEGORY&CATEGORY=FLOORING+STAPLERS

http://www.bostitch.com/default.asp...&PARTNUMBER=MIIIFS&SDesc=Flooring+Stapler+Kit

which is the best buy?


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

parquetselvon said:


> Yes I catch you, no need tongue and groove then, will give this a try, they use it here in timber house construction. thank you jamestrd.
> 
> http://www.aerfast-fastening.com/products.asp?language=fr&productgroupid=5&subgroupid=2483
> 
> ...


Get the bostitch MIII


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## adamsb (Aug 25, 2005)

Around here in Central Texas, most of our pre- finished goes on concrete so you can't nail it anyway. If I get the chance to glue to plywood I would nail just a starter row with brad nailer to hold it still where I can continue job without the floors moving on me. Very minimal nailing though.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

[QUOTE="Eric]yelling at me about the 1st 3 rows having been face nailed along the wall. She says that that is the wrong way and completely unacceptable. I just need some literature to take with me tomorrow to show that's standard practice. [/QUOTE]
It is? I've never nailed flooring that way. I use my standard 15g nailer and shoot through the tongue whenever I can't fit the flooring gun in there. 

If you go to lumberliquidators.com you can print out a PDF of the installation specs of any flooring. You should read the manufacturers specs anyway before you install a floor.


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## parquetselvon (Mar 15, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> Get the bostitch MIII


The M111 FN or the M111 FS

I'm sorry for being out of subject.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

parquetselvon said:


> The M111 FN or the M111 FS
> 
> I'm sorry for being out of subject.


I think the FS is better .fires staples..i think it is more reliable


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## parquetselvon (Mar 15, 2011)

Does the FS model with staples work well in exotical wood, such as wenge / ipe / kempas . Seeing the brads with the FN models with teeth, seems to hold better ?


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Where else but the internet wonderland can one assume another is a master craftsman having never seen their
> work.
> 
> To answer your question, I top nail and blind nail the first row. The top nails are in the first 1/2" of the board (using a 15 gauge finish gun which apparently isn't suitable lol), to be covered later by the baseboard. I stand by my statement that i use top nails in a prefinished floor. If sometimes will use a 16 gauge through the top. All of this really depends on the wood, the location, the amount of light, the customer etc etc. My experience the direction I go. If you angle your finish gun as you shoot it, and place the nail in a spot with certain grain if you can, the hole is difficult to see at standing height when puttied and finished. Certainly not unsightly.
> Its good to see you guys have good luck with your methods, thats what counts.


We do the same and have never had a problem. We have about 1400 sq ft coming up in a month that will be installed like this.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Jdub2083 said:


> We do the same and have never had a problem. We have about 1400 sq ft coming up in a month that will be installed like this.


Exactly.. And most of the experienced guys here posting never had a problem with their methods and shared them. 

But actually using Manufacturer and NWFA guideline and proven methods. 

But hey.. We were just lucky our checks cleared and that we had "good luck

You know "i'm not exactly sure what I learned here " either

Give me F'n break.... 
.


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> Exactly.. And most of the experienced guys here posting never had a problem with their methods and shared them.
> 
> But actually using Manufacturer and NWFA guideline and proven methods.
> 
> ...


I'm not doubting any other methods of installation or saying my way is better at all. I'm sure gluing the first row or two is fine. I've just never done it that way. I was just giving my insight on the fact that that I do it the same way as him and have yet to have an issue. There's plenty of ways to skin a cat. 

For what its worth, the oak floor in my house was put down in 1960, and was face nailed for the first three rows. It took me about a year after we moved in to notice. :laughing:


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Jdub2083 said:


> I'm not doubting any other methods of installation or saying my way is better at all. I'm sure gluing the first row or two is fine. I've just never done it that way. I was just giving my insight on the fact that that I do it the same way as him and have yet to have an issue. There's plenty of ways to skin a cat.
> 
> For what its worth, the oak floor in my house was put down in 1960, and was face nailed for the first three rows. It took me about a year after we moved in to notice. :laughing:


I down with that... Unfinish a different snimal but still avoidable.. Just not as crucial for appearance


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Any of you guys ever use a face nailer that shoots 2" cleats?

I've got one in my trailer that I can't remember the brand. Face nailing with it & using a good color match filler makes the nail holes almost invisible in prefinished floors. The ratcheting system on it's not working right & I've been too lazy to fix it, so I haven't used it in a while, but it used to come out on nearly every job.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

pinwheel said:


> Any of you guys ever use a face nailer that shoots 2" cleats?
> 
> I've got one in my trailer that I can't remember the brand. Face nailing with it & using a good color match filler makes the nail holes almost invisible in prefinished floors. The ratcheting system on it's not working right & I've been too lazy to fix it, so I haven't used it in a while, but it used to come out on nearly every job.


U talking about the portable palm held? Loads one at a time?.. Powernail makes it


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

I had one of those black Powernailers. It was a long time ago, and I think mine was a one shot, non ratcheting. Striped a few walls with that thing lol...


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

jamestrd said:


> U talking about the portable palm held? Loads one at a time?.. Powernail makes it



No, it's a manual floor nailer that takes T nails. It's not made by powernail, just can't remember the brand name. It's got a ratcheting pawl so you can hit it multiple times to drive the nail. I'll pull it outta the trailer tomorrow & snap a pic.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Found it. It's a porta nail model 402, with a face nail shoe.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

pinwheel said:


> Found it. It's a porta nail model 402, with a face nail shoe.


i think i know it but never had one..just the conventional powernailer/topnailer.

power nailer makes a palm held one shot pneumatic nailer for just the conversation we had in this thread..you can blind nail right up to the second to last row and then it shoots nails close enough to the wall to cover by trim..

it shoots cleats...downs side one nail loader..but i think you can load fast enough..haven't tried it yet


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

jamestrd said:


> i think i know it but never had one..just the conventional powernailer/topnailer.
> 
> power nailer makes a palm held one shot pneumatic nailer for just the conversation we had in this thread..you can blind nail right up to the second to last row and then it shoots nails close enough to the wall to cover by trim..
> 
> it shoots cleats...downs side one nail loader..but i think you can load fast enough..haven't tried it yet


So you're saying let the second to last course float and nail the shoe covered edge of the last course?


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Metro M & L said:


> So you're saying let the second to last course float and nail the shoe covered edge of the last course?


no....it nails through the tongue on 2nd to last course..then nails last close enough to wall to cover by trim..

bottomline is finsih nails are not recommended fasteners for solid flooring.
yes they work..but this is why i also use glue..to ensure hold and unnecessary noises/squeaks in time.

give me a standard manual Powernail topnailer and i can take it 2nd to last course all day.

but not at proper nailing angle.

just grind groove at seam of face plate and body at bottom if nailer by
driver pin.

this now sits on edge of board.. a swift shot swing( white mallot to be sure) and send the nail home..

bottomline..there are many ways to do it, but visible nails should be avoided at all cost.

even unfinished.. in fact..the top nailer method i mentioned is better suited on unfinished materials..

I've been in the biz for over 20 years..ive worked for, with and employed some amazing company in my day...


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Guys, I know this is an older thread but I can not figure something out. Everyone is saying glue down with PL. How are you gluing to a vapor barrier? I'm waiting to finish the last few courses on a pre-finished floor till I hear back. Really don't want to face nail it...


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> Guys, I know this is an older thread but I can not figure something out. Everyone is saying glue down with PL. How are you gluing to a vapor barrier? I'm waiting to finish the last few courses on a pre-finished floor till I hear back. Really don't want to face nail it...


Look in my tiger wood question thread. 
Pin recommended cutting back or placing the vb back a couple of rows and gluing direct to the substrate.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

So with the PL premium, I assume this is the tubes of it. How much glue and what pattern would I be wanting to lay down?


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