# Helix



## pschieuer (Mar 10, 2011)

What's everyone's thoughts on using helix micro rebar? Anyone here ever use it? Is it worth the expense? We have about 75 yards of concrete worth of footings for a new house project to pour before Christmas that we're planning to use it on, so was just looking for some opinions and insight. Thanks.


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## pschieuer (Mar 10, 2011)

http://www.helixfiber.com


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Beats me. If it's expensive why switch.? Especially for a residential footing.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Those would be nice to shoot out of my cannon.


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## pschieuer (Mar 10, 2011)

Why switch? Because you can achieve a far superior product in less time for about the same cost. I'll post some comparisons when I get back to the office later. The stuff was originally developed for the military to build blast and seismic proof facilities. It's amazing stuff. Check into it.


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## pschieuer (Mar 10, 2011)

Here's an interesting article:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/20/helixsteel-certified-idUSnPnDEttVtz+164+PRN20140220

Reinforcement bar will be a thing of the past.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

pschieuer said:


> Why switch? Because you can achieve a far superior product in less time for about the same cost. .


Then why are you asking?


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

pschieuer, After 5 months still a convert, Wow that will refute thousands of years of experience that any metal inbeds lower the service life of masonry---See Parthenon at Atheans... brass clamps thermally fail after a few hundred years, steel/iron clamp rust pop stones they are used on in a few decades...

Fiber addititives lower the need for stirupps, but don't eliminate the need for long bars to provide cheap tensile strength, @ 600.00$ a ton 60KPSI steel is a lot cheaper per Kip of tensile strength then 70$ a ton 60 PSI concrete..... 

Study up on confined stress and come back to share your insights please.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Pschieur,scroll down a bit on this site to the heading Metal Block -Ties http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/constructiontechniques.htm


It shows some metal in-bedded in ancient stone work that worked quite well.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

One of the manufacturers has told me Helix is doing the engineering for their product in ICF forms to reduce/remove rebar. I haven't tried it yet but am interested, as I understand it doesn't effect the cost, but easier to pour walls with no rebar so saved labour costs.

It's still hard for me to wrap my head around this.


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## pschieuer (Mar 10, 2011)

Not only is doing the engineering, but HAS DONE engineering. There has been thousands of tests done independently from helix with zero failures. I'm personally pouring the ICF basement walls of a 10,000+ sqft complete ICF home with helix and NO rebar tomorrow. Our footings were 80 yards with not a lick of rebar. The only bar on this entire project is at the cold joints and stress points over the openings. The only reason we use it at the stress points is simply because its not cost effective to put enough helix in the entire wall just to get the strength needed at only a few select spots. 

True, rebar has been working for thousands of years, but how naive and limiting is it of us as contractors to say that just because its worked for so long that there just simply cannot be another alternative that just might work better? This stuff has been very widely used over seas on huge commercial and industrial projects and in the 10 years or so its been on the market they have had ZERO failures. Can you say that about rebar? The evidence and the science is all there to back this stuff up, are you willing to look at it?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm willing to look at it and will look at it again.

Realize I have 2 backgrounds, I spent 5 years in California from 04-09 and I asked a few times about it out there and no engineer was willing to allow me to eliminate rebar for this product.

Couple weeks back one of my ICF manufacturers was giving me updated information on what Helix is doing. So I can only suggest using the product, I am not the engineer for these projects and most engineers do not like to change something after they have done their final design that is stamped and approved.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

pschieuer, micro-reenforcement has its place, but has OSB replaced Microlams? or quality veneer plywoods?

Your non oreintated iron is going to out perform steel placed where its needed? Where is the dog bone/ bar bell ends to develope full tension over more of the length of the fibers? where are the Macro fibers?

How tire friendly is a garage slab? Salt resistance on a parkinging ramp, Are YOU betting a Professional Career on every job?

It appears special PPE would be needed during even clean up after pouring, let alone during Demo...


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## pschieuer (Mar 10, 2011)

When finishing a slab the fibers act as an aggregate and drop below the surface of the concrete when you work up a paste. Its used for parking lots, driveways and floors all the time. In fact, on this house we're doing now, all the basement floors will be stained concrete with helix in it. Also, there's a parking lot at Lite-form, an ICF manufacturer that is a big proponent of helix, that is poured 2" thick with 2" of EPS under it to control frost. This parking lot is full of cars and trucks daily, has been for a few years now and doesn't have a crack in it. Another example is Australia. They pour lots of roads and interstates with it. No rebar. This house we're doing now was all engineered specifically for helix. Has a Missouri stamp on it. I'd say he's willing to bet his career on it.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Amen, brother! I'll sin no more....

What do they call the autobohns down under? whatever, any salt or frost action between droughts and floods and fires?

If your helix products can eliminate potholes in roadways, I'll join the mania.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

pschieuer said:


> Here's an interesting article:
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/20/helixsteel-certified-idUSnPnDEttVtz+164+PRN20140220
> 
> Reinforcement bar will be a thing of the past.


Setting aside for a moment the more important debate about the merits of the product - that's not an "article". It's a press release, written by the company.

What is the cost difference? Not company PR, but someone's real-world experience.


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