# Recessed Lighting Close to Framing



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

memetic said:


> . It's really easy once you get the hang of it. You just have to close it up before inspection.


 
Ahh the essence at lastAnd what do you think the fiire marshall will say when the house burns down and he finds 120 year old wiring with 1 year old wiring tied into it ? Do you think they cannot tell the difference between an old rubber and fabric insulation and a thermoplastic insulation? Even after a fire?


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

JumboJack said:


> And yet you asked a bunch of strangers for advise and you're still going to go ahead and do it wrong.
> 
> 
> Check out the big brain on memetic.......:laughing:


:thumbup::thumbup:



ChrWright said:


> Yes, I'm calling you a hack.... something I don't do lightly. You have no business performing this work--no matter who lives there.
> 
> You CANNOT tie new work to knob and tube. It's not permitted, nor is it wise. Yes, knob and tube can last a long time--but forever? There's a reason it's not in use any more--quite a few actually. Oh, but I'm sure you've worked in dozens of old houses and know all about that, right?... and performed electrical work for years and years... That's why you've come here for advice...
> 
> ...


Go Chris
I could not have saiD this better myself!
Besides YALE SUCKS AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

memetic said:


>


I know those EXACT lights. They are cheap-ass crap bought at Lowes. 4-pack for about $25. We just had to replace those same cans in a house last week. I could not believe how crappy they are. You look at them the wrong way, they bend. 

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=16059-47842-105851-028&lpage=none
with the added new construction kit. 

Good luck with those


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

It is the typical elcheapo syndrom of the HO/customer/do it yourselfer that thinks Blowes and Home Dopey are the cheapest and the best. You can buy a Progressive can with an IC rating for the same money and is far superior in strength and quality. You also have more options for trim but that will cost a little extra.


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## MacRoadie (Dec 9, 2007)

In all my years, I've worked with dozens if not hundreds of architects, the vast majority of whom knew the difference between IC and non-IC rated fixtures (and the appropriate installation applications for each). Licensed architects typically understand fire-resistive construction, the appropriate fixtures to be used in those assemblies, and the dire consequences of compromising said assemblies. It's ridiculously basic stuff.

Oh, and by the way, I too have a degree in architecture. Unfortunately, I must have missed the class on synergistic utilization of ignorance and arrogance in the built environment. Did they teach that in studio?


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

MacRoadie said:


> In all my years, I've worked with dozens if not hundreds of architects, the vast majority of whom knew the difference between IC and non-IC rated fixtures (and the appropriate installation applications for each). Licensed architects typically understand fire-resistive construction, the appropriate fixtures to be used in those assemblies, and the dire consequences of compromising said assemblies. It's ridiculously basic stuff.
> 
> Oh, and by the way, I too have a degree in architecture. Unfortunately, I must have missed the class on synergistic utilization of ignorance and arrogance in the built environment. Did they teach that in studio?


:clap::clap::clap::thumbup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

The fun has so worn off of these gag threads, please can't someone spam the plumbing forum instead?


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## Jim M (Jun 7, 2007)

Shouldn't this have been in the post about pompous arses?

I have closed posts in the DIY board for this disregard for safety.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Hey man im the master hack around here irate: Dont be coming on my this forum and taking away posts that that belong on my hack threads. Wondered why my thread went so dead :blink:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Hey man im the master hack around here irate: Dont be coming on my this forum and taking away posts that that belong on my hack threads. Wondered why my thread went so dead :blink:


 
BCC, meet handyman99..........:laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

480sparky said:


> BCC, meet handyman99..........:laughing:


 
:thumbsup:


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## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

*lights*

last year a HO brought me these beaming with joy on how much they saved. After I finally figured out how to use the springs to hold them in we eventually got them up (remodel types)after drywall. Putting a J-Box on top of the light with conductors mm's away ??? How the heck did that even get by UL label? I'm no rocket scientist but I think heat rises right? I refuse to ever install these pieces of crap ever again!


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## jethro (Nov 18, 2009)

Since you're obviously going top shelf, you should upgrade your service with an FPE or Zinsco to be extra safe. I believe since you're Yale fellow, you can probably afford a nice FPE split bus service.

Also, as an extra measure of safety, you should seal all the wood in the sealing with a good two coats of creosote.

Have to scoot, but I am imrest wiph yer edyoocashun.


Jethro


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## Zinsco (Oct 14, 2009)

memetic said:


> I have a Master's Degree from Yale.


.
.
This is perhaps the first time in history that a Yale grad, who works with his tools on, and is the last person in America doing Knob and Tube installations, and hangs out on construction forums has felt the need to post his academic credentials for all of us to see.

This is truly delicious. Let's all sit back and bask in the warmth of memetic's intellectual achievements. _A Master's degree from an ivy league college and he's swinging a hammer and trying to wire a recessed can_.

It may not be too late to get your tuition refunded. :laughing::laughing::laughing:
.
.
.


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## stars13bars2 (Feb 13, 2005)

Hey memetic, :no::no::no: 
MENSA called and they want their membership card back.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

How did I miss this one?
Big fun with a mental midget. (Oh sorry...Yalie)

The movie Arthur comes to mind.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Ok, macreferee steps in. Not that I like or care to install Commercial Electric recess lights model k-26 one little bit, but they are UL rated for NM-B romex cable in the junction box, which some here have a problem with. Please read 334.80. and then 334.112. NM-b is rated 90 deg c. Table 310.16 has romex in the 60 deg column but that is for determining ampacity, not the rating of the insulation. NM-B is rated at 90deg C, not 60 deg C. 

Now as to installing k+T into a Commercial Electric recess light model k-26 that is a code violation. K+T has a 60 deg or less rated insulation and is not allowed to be connected to any light fixture in a dwelling, when the fixture has been manufactured for use in the USA after the year 1987. So, the jist is ok for nm-b in those cheap ass crummy cans and they are listed for such. NOT OK for knob and tube to be connected to those crummy little cans, nor is it ok to install K +T into *any* new light fixture in a dwelling.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

memetic said:


> I am installing uninsulated recessed lighting in a bathroom and one of the lights is a couple inches away from one of the roof joists. It is actually the little box on the top of the can that houses the wiring. I know that the bulb side of the light is very hot, but what about that little box? I can post a picture if that will help.
> 
> Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.


Lets hope any advice will be much appreciated. Look at the paperwork that comes packaged with your fixture. It states that the fixture must maintain a clearance of 3" from insulation and 1/2" from combustible surfaces (wood). Further states: the mounting points (hanger arms) and trims are exempt from the 1/2" clearance. Nowhere does it allow the j-box to be closer than 1/2" from combustible surfaces or any other part of the fixture except for the two items I just mentioned. It also states "RISK OF FIRE" so if I was you, I would pay attention to the directions supplied. Move the light away from the joists.


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## Ohmy (Sep 10, 2009)

Question - can you install a remodel can in a wood ceiling? Does the 1/2" rule apply? What about recessed puck lights? 

I'm a personal fan of the 3" recessed lights pictured above. A couple years ago I bought 50 of them from HD with all sorts of cool trims for $2 a piece. That's trim, housing (if you can call it that), and lamp. Of course, they are a pain to install and its impossible for a HO to change the lamps. They look great in my basement and I have had zero issues with them. Knowing what I know about them now, I would not recondmend them to anyone. But I love mine and they look great.


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## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

*Prize*

Yes (if it's IC rated), No (if it's IC rated), I hate recessed pucks. Would I even install a 6" IC rated can up against a 2x10 No. 

Did I win a prize or something?


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