# Bidding a job



## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I bid an exterior paint job the other day and I got an email today that said, 
Please send me the proposal with the following breakdown:

1. Materials Costs and number of gallons

2. Labor Costs

3. General conditions costs

4. Mark up and profit
best regards, homeowner

I've never had a homeowner ask me to break it down like this and I'm not sure if I should. It sounds like someone wanting to know how to bid their own paint job to me. I may be completely wrong. any opinions?


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

Trust your gut.................


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Tell them no.It's none of their business.

How you do that is up to you.....



summithomeinc said:


> I bid an exterior paint job the other day and I got an email today that said,
> Please send me the proposal with the following breakdown:
> 
> 1. Materials Costs and number of gallons
> ...


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Inform the homeowner that the information is proprietary. You will surely get nit-picked on every line item with customers like this.

If you don't have a signed contract, the time and energy gathering this info for them can only to be used against you: either to beat you up on your price, or to negotiate with _another_ contractor.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

That's simply not how it works unless you are on cost-plus. Someone needs to dig up that video that 480 posted a few months ago about this very thing. I can't find it, but it shows how ridiculous this type of request is.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Tell them that before you do that, you need to qualify them and see their tax return!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Simply put, what they're asking for is not 'public information'. If you don't want to provide them with that information, they can either hire you based on the price you give them or they can find someone else who's willing to waste their time 'complying' with ridiculous requests.​


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

Ask if they have bought anything at all in any form of shop recently. Unless they're completely off the grid making clothes out of bamboo & weeds and eating cow pats for breakfast, I'm sure that will be a "Yes". Did they ask the retailer what their profit margin was & do they recall being drop kicked out the door???

A lot of my clients are outdoors types or similar so I can let them know that the $450 ski jacket they have on their hanger cost $35 to make and that bottle of diet coke they just drank cost a few cents ;-) I always educate this type of client on the steps required so by the time we get to price they realize it's more involved than they envisaged. I never discuss price on the 1st visit for anything other than a quick repair job. However I also follow up very promptly with the estimate so I am still fresh in their mind.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Simply put, what they're asking for is not 'public information'. If you don't want to provide them with that information, they can either hire you based on the price you give them or they can find someone else who's willing to waste their time 'complying' with ridiculous requests.​


I'm wondering if I should just put a link in my email for that video? Think he would get it? I was speachless when I got the email from him. It was like wtf? I'm glad I'm not the only one to think so. I'll probably send a polite no thanks, wish you well with your project, blah blah blah......


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> I'm wondering if I should just put a link in my email for that video? Think he would get it? I was speachless when I got the email from him. It was like wtf? I'm glad I'm not the only one to think so. I'll probably send a polite no thanks, wish you well with your project, blah blah blah......



Simply provide them with your price. You don't need to explain any more than that.

When I drive down the street and see a gallon of gas for $2.89, I don't go in and ask for a breakdown... 'How much does the gas cost you? How much are state & federal taxes? How much is your markup? What's your margin? What's your profit? How much is your overhead on each gallon?"

Same thing for a loaf of bread in the grocery store. It's 1.89. End of discussion.


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## SAW.co (Jan 2, 2011)

Explain to them that you are selling a finished product for an agreed upon price & payment schedule. 
Probably they have been watching too much Homes on homes! 
I HATE THAT GUY:furious:


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## macatawacab (Jan 1, 2009)

The old story about George Washington goes like this;

As a boy, George was asked by a neighbor to fix a gate. George did the work and left a bill asking for $ 1.00 for the work done.

The neighbor saw George and said, "George, I know that you could not have spent more than 4 cents on nails to fix that gate. And now you want me to give you a dollar for the work. You need to give me a itemized bill before I pay you."

George gave him the following bill;
Nails = 4 cents
Knowing where to put the nails = 96 cents
Total for work 1.00 dollar


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

i would walk from it...only down hill from here


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

macatawacab said:


> The old story about George Washington goes like this;
> 
> As a boy, George was asked by a neighbor to fix a gate. George did the work and left a bill asking for $ 1.00 for the work done.
> 
> ...


But who's picture was on the dollar?


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

SAW.co said:


> Explain to them that you are selling a finished product for an agreed upon price & payment schedule.
> Probably they have been watching too much Homes on homes!
> I HATE THAT GUY:furious:


Fortunately I can do that now...There have been times when business wasn't as good....When I worked for less than I should have.


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## ltd (Nov 26, 2010)

no dont do it consider your self lucky if that's not a red flag than i dont no what is .politely tell them you are now booked solid and are not taking on any new work .something better will come along


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## Repairman615 (Jan 10, 2011)

I am not sure if it is me, but I would really like to see that YouTube vid.. Could someone please repost the link.
(edit: I see it now...it was me.)

I am a thrifty shopper...always looking at the price here vs there. Subconciously searching for the best deal. I ask for discounts from time to time...try to negotiate sometimes.

If I can't get a discount, alot of times I buy anyway...didn't hurt to ask.

Knowing that about me, I see the irony in myself because I agree with most here on the topic. Well, now anyways...see starting out a few years ago I didn't know this and tried to account for every dollar in my bid when asked (Knowing damn well I pulled a number out of the air:whistling). The obvious happend, after that and I learned "_that felt uncool_". For crying out loud, I did not even know about O&P then so that wasn't even in there and they still felt like I was making too much, but the truth is they were getting deals as I was going around like a hack for peanuts.

Now the way the email sounded was:

Slave,
I own you, you will do the following.
You have 2 minutes to make me happy.
Get going and stop when I say.

Call Me Master
...Master
(insert Bird-Finger Smiley)

Maybe I am a little sensitive, but the email was too forward and direct. Especially to assume they have a right to this.

So to sum it up, I do not give line items on fixed price bids due to experiance. I do tell them the price will not change and I will do all in the scope...etc.
The risk is on me to complete the job to make money.

shorter post next time.
Keep up the good work fellas! :thumbsup:


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

Time to move on to the next customer; that one is going to be nothing but a PITA. Don't be rude however; explain what your company policy is and take it from there.


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## Florida11 (Dec 22, 2010)

Repairman615 said:


> I am not sure if it is me, but I would really like to see that YouTube vid.. Could someone please repost the link.
> (edit: I see it now...it was me.)
> 
> I am a thrifty shopper...always looking at the price here vs there. Subconciously searching for the best deal. I ask for discounts from time to time...try to negotiate sometimes.
> ...


Good post. I too think there is proper etiquite and a fine line in between negotiating and coming off as a complete ***********. An example that comes to mind is when I was helping a friend in their industrial roofing business a few years ago. ..

I was down in Cincinati and there were two other trucks full of guys on their way to stay as well. This was to be a two week venture, so I wanted to get some nicer accomodations. After calling around on rates at hotels, I figured why not try the nice Sheraton there, and see what their rates were ($120 per night). With 2 weeks, and 3 rooms needed, I did the following...

I first asked the lady on the phone if there were any discounts available for what we needed. She said sure $100 per night. Then I talked with her a bit and joked around, and said could you do $80, because if you could then we got a deal, but I was cool with her and she liked talking with me. The key was I was genuine and completely being myself, not trying to be somebody. Anyways, she ended up hooking it up for $80, and I'm sure if they were busier it wouldn't have happened, but it did.

Those other crews along with the guys I was with were quite surprised. We all had to have our trucks w/trailers valet parked the entire stay as well. That was a site to see.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

So I emailed the guy back and told him that is not how I was used to bidding and that I wasn't going to break it down like that. Anyeay the reply I got was this:
Jeremy,

I have been in construction for over 20 years and I get GMP contracts with a CSI 34 division breakdown on every project that I bid on.

Sorry that you have a different method of working than the standard.

It might be standard to him but it's never been standard to anyone else for a simple exterior paint job. So I replied sorry we can't come to an agreement I wish you well with your project. I had to google GMP contracts and CSI 34 division breakdown. I was giving him a guaranteed price. He's the kind that I don't want his business anyway. Too much of a PITA.


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