# A real life drama....



## Milhaus (Feb 11, 2007)

Okay, so I just tried to type this freakin soap-opera and it's too long. Too many bullsheet variables. So I'm going to try to simplify because I could really use some constructive criticism here. Here you go. 

I have a friend who moonlights plumbing work on the side of his day job as a plumber. He has the home owner pull the permit and on he goes. 

I worked with him in the past on some jobs, but last I knew he wasn't doing any more side jobs. Which was good because since then I realized why I can't as a licensed contractor, make a habit of working with subs who aren't licensed themselves. 

Fast forward a month or so, and I get a referral from this plumber's WIFE for some friends of theirs. The referral folks call, I meet them, discuss the plans for two bathroom remodels, and work up an estimate. Customer never mentions using my friend the plumber at all. 

The day before I'm scheduled to meet with the customer, I see this plumber friend of mine at the bar. It is mentioned that he was supposed to do the plumbing all along - that's why they gave me the referral. 

I don't remember half of the conversation, but to avoid an unnecessary argument at the bar (which was a b-day party for a friend of ours and NOT where I do business) I say we'll see how it works out because I have already worked up the estimate, and who knows whether I would even get the job. It left a bad, bad taste in my mouth. It was never mentioned prior to this that he was intending to do the plumbing work on this job. 

The next day, I talk to the customer, they want the price knocked down a bit with different material choices. NO mention of the plumber friend. So I work up another estimate (which is delayed by the holidays and all sorts of other things). I set up another meeting with them. The customer asks at this meeting if my friend the plumber is going to do the plumbing. I say no, I can't as a licensed contractor work with unlicensed plumbers. That is not how I run my business. They say okay. I get a signed contract with them a couple days later and a scheduling check and guess who calls. My friend the plumber. He's all pissed off because he gave me a referral in the hopes that he would get a side job out of it, and now he's not going to get the work.

I tell him it's bull**** because last I heard he wasn't doing side jobs, and I already had the estimate worked up when he told me he wanted the job. AND he never once called me in the month and a half in between to see if he was included. I tell him I'll call him back. 

I've already talked with the plumber I was planning on using, so I'm stuck there without potentially damaging my word. I've got a signed contract to NOT use my friend, but he's telling me the homeowner is his friend and the homeowner wants to use him for the plumbing. 

I sit on for the night, and get a call from him the next day saying that HE called the customer and they want him to do the plumbing. Boy, talk about lighting a fire under someone - I about flew through the roof.

I proceed to try to explain the differences between being a licensed contractor and doing side work, but he can't hear it. I proceed to explain loudly that I can't believe he called my customer behind my back after I had a signed contract with them, but he thinks it's okay. Continuing in a relatively loud voice, I tell him that he is backing me into a corner where I have no choice. He doesn't understand. So I tell him it is bullsh!t and hang up. 

I talked with the customers tonight and explained the situation from my perspective, with reasons as to why I can't (as a licensed contractor) take this job using an unlicensed plumber - friend or not. And tell them that I have only two options in how to proceed (along with numerous apologies for the situation). 

In order to not damage their relationship with our plumber friend, I will refund their scheduling check completely if that is what they want to do. They both get massages form the plumber's friend's wife. I don't want anything relating to this situation to interfere with the final opinion of my business or our work. Or I continue on with the signed contract and proceed as planned, but I cannot use our friend the plumber. I left the decision to them. 

What would you have told the customer? 

And yes - still too long. What a mess.

mark


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## Tin Cup (Nov 22, 2007)

Romeo to Tin Cup "Look, boss, I only got one rule. And that's never bet money that you don't have on a dog race with an ex-girlfriend who happens to be a stripper. "

next action depends on what is more important to you. business or this friend. the plumber's wife isn't a stripper, is she ?

Good luck. 

Tin Cup


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

This one thing I know... If they want you to go ahead with the work and use your plumber, he'd better do a darned perfect job. You know it's going to get picked to pieces by your "buddy". :laughing:


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Hand them back their check and walk away.


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## Tin Cup (Nov 22, 2007)

after thinking about it, the most professional way out of it now it to give the plumber's wife, i mean the stripper a commission for the referral. sounds like she already had her hubbie's side job money spent.

or walk.

Tin Cup


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Mark, I thought I was the only one that got stuck in the middle of this type of BS. You did what you had to do, It's your license. 

I just reread your post, what I originally post isn' relevent. (nevermind)


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## beachremodlr (Jan 14, 2008)

Sounds like you made a fairly reasonable decision about allowing the customer to decide how things would proceed. I also think that your reputation is probably still in decent standings w the HO, but I would make sure, that if you continue with the job, there is no more drama on the way that would involve or be passed onto the HO. Your there to solve their problems and bringing yours onboard may cause your ship to sink, as far as they are concerned. Professional decision to not use your (unlicensed) friend, unprofessional to bring a problem of yours, to their environment. Backing out could lead to no more referals (proving your workmanship and professionalism to the HO - if they allow things to proceed - could turn into more work. If they don't get to see your work, after having drama follow, sounds like a negative from the HO's persprective.
Only my opinion.
Good Luck
Friends and Business rarely mix well for long.:shutup:


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## beachremodlr (Jan 14, 2008)

Tin cup may have been through this and knows the best way out. Pay the girlfriend, she'll take care of his issues


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Maybe you might have had a clue
what's up from the source of the
referral. (But then I'm usually the 
last one to read the memo myself)
Sounds to me like this is starting bad
and has real potential for disaster.
I doubt that the plumber,or his wife,
will ever go quietly into the good night.
What ever they/you decide,
good luck.


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

Here is what I have done in the past. (Keep in mind that my state does NOT require the plumbing or electrical work to be performed by someone licensed in that specific trade.) I do, however, have to use licensed subs for insurance reasons. If your state is different, disregard this.

I have a friend who is a knowledgable electrician, yet unlicensed. I asked him what he would price the job at. Let's say it was $1,000. I hired him as my employee so he was covered by my w/c and paid him $25 per hour. (I get a big w/c discount when the pay exceeds $23). He reports 40 hours on his time card and claims 9 dependants on the w4 so he takes home most of the money. We agreed that we would deduct w/c and payroll expenses from his end and it worked for us on that one job.


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## Dale S. (Jul 11, 2007)

Give them back the money and walk away. My license is not worth the risk of using the unlicensed guy. I know plenty of contractors who have had to answer to their insurance carrier regarding using unlicensed subs and it was NOT fun.
dale


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Milhaus said:


> What would you have told the customer?
> 
> And yes - still too long. What a mess.
> 
> mark


"I'm sorry, but there seems to be a conflict of interest here that I'm in no position to correct. The reasons are many, but suffice it to say, they are all beyond our immediate control.

I'm afraid our company can not help you out on this project. I can recommend xyz contractracting, or abc contracting, / I can't recommend anyone that would be suitable for your specific needs.

Best of luck with your upcoming project,

Milhaus Custom Thing-a-ma-bobs"


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## Milhaus (Feb 11, 2007)

Man, I've been wanting to type this post for two days; this is good. 

My customers are college professors - one of the markets I want to be a part of in a bad way. I take them to be intelligent people. When I explained the potential negative impacts to my business because of this, they understood it pretty well. But, I did get a pretty confrontational "WHY?" from the wife when I first said I wouldn't be using my buddy.

HO also told me tonight that this buddy of mine was over yesterday to take measurements. Whatever his reasoning, he really wants this job!!!! GOD! It drives me crazy when I can't understand what the f6ck people are thinking. He doesn't have the subs to get the work done, unless he wants to do the tile/electrical himself. Maybe he is trying to set up his business and he's really that upset about not getting to work with them. I've told him in the past if he would go out on his own, I'd send all my work his way. 

Anyway, I did end the conversation well.

I told them "returning the check was not a big deal. I can get more work. No matter how this project ends up, I would like an opportunity to work with you again because I'm interested in long term relationships with my customers. It benefits both you and me. You have 100 friends that are either going to hear good or bad about this project. That's a lot of people that I could potentially work with or not. And you don't have to learn how a new contractor operates every time you do a project." 

That's not too bad for a rookie. 

I'm going to sleep on it. I hate this drama crap. Sabotage by the wife-intentional or not, it always happens with her. 

mark


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## Milhaus (Feb 11, 2007)

> "I'm sorry, but there seems to be a conflict of interest here that I'm in no position to correct. The reasons are many, but suffice it to say, they are all beyond our immediate control.
> 
> I'm afraid our company can not help you out on this project. I can recommend xyz contractracting, or abc contracting, / I can't recommend anyone that would be suitable for your specific needs.
> 
> ...


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

The more I think about it, the better it sounds. Quick and easy. And then kick myself for the next couple weeks figuring out the schedule. 

mark


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

While I totally agree that you should walk (or run) away from this one, I can somewhat understand your plumber friend's point of view.

I totally agree that you should not be using unlicensed subs, but in his mind that wasn't an issue in the past and unless I read your post wrong he wasn't aware that you had come to that conclusion.

I did see that you said he wasn't doing any sub work, but I would have probably at least talked to him about the project and your new sub "approach" because:

#1) He's a friend
#2) He referred the clients..._his_ neighbors
#3) He's done plumbing work for you in the past

Like I said, I totally agree with you not using unlicensed subs, but I can see where he might have been thinking "perfect side job...right next door...even if I'm not doing side jobs too often any more".

J


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## Milhaus (Feb 11, 2007)

Jf - I appreciate the opinion. I can agree to a certain extent. I think I have some responsibility in this. Minimal but it's in there. I should have clarified with my friend what my take on this was after we spoke at the frickin bar. I didn't think it was my place because he/or his wife didn't let me know to include them up front. Watch it blow up now. This is a months worth of work that I was counting on. But, I still don't feel good about it. 

The customer is not his neighbor, just a friend. You're right that he didn't know that I had come to this conclusion, but last I knew he told me he wasn't doing any side jobs. That was our last communication on this subject. So I took that to mean, I'll call you if anything changes. 

In my mind, you don't give referrals with strings unless those strings are clarified. By the time I knew he wanted anything to do with it, I already had an estimate put together with my time, and my plumber's time already invested. Sure, there are ways around it, but it's principle more than anything. 

I have a track record littered with problems with the wife. At this point, after already giving the HO a couple options, there is no problem returning their check and washing my hands of this, are there? We have a signed contract, but even after talking with them I'm still not 100% comfortable proceeding. 

The HO still allowed the plumber friend to come over after I spoke with them to take measurements. So their not being 100% honest about the situation with him. I'm sure they are trying to salvage their relationship, but if they are not willing to say No, we need to let this situation air out now, why would they not let him interfere later? 

I'm leaning towards Double-A on this the more I think about it. 

mark


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

I agree with Double A.

In your situation, as Double A stated, the primary issue is (that is contributing to the mess) is simply = Conflict of Interest.

Take the high road, thank them for the opportunity. Explain again, that is nothing personal against them, or your plumber friend, that it is simply your "business policy". I would not recommend any other company. I'd just walk away.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

At least you have a good attitude about it all Mark. 

As far as totally walking away (which I would do), I would think that you could just draw up a one page agreement stating that both parties (you and homeowners) have agreed to cancel the orginal contract and all deposit money is to be returned.

I have no idea how you make everyone happy in this situation...I would just bow out as professionally as possible and try to explain to your buddy your viewpoint and see if he can understand...if he cant, so be it, at least you tried.

J


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## Milhaus (Feb 11, 2007)

That's what I'm going to do JF. I can't for the life of me get by this. It's eating my lunch, and I haven't even eaten yet.

Thanks for the validation.

mark


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## Milhaus (Feb 11, 2007)

Anyone have a cancellation contract I could snag? Or specifics that should be on it? I'll check the file swap.

mark


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