# Full service masons



## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

How many of you guys offer full service masonry?

I know quite a few guys locally whom might do brick, block & flat work but not really finish stone or stucco.
Some do, just curious.

I cant find any true skilled masons in my age group that I can build a relationship with. A couple guys I know whom are real good I seldom get to work with becasue we get priced out of everything. They are also a few years out from retiring. It sucks.


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

In my experience, few masons do everything. The basic categories around here seem to be..
-Brick and block: normally a mason will specialize in one or the other, but there is much crossover and blockwork has been replaced by poured concrete for many applications.

-Stonemasons: very few do anything else. I will do brick and block when it's for backup to my work. Also, I do stone flatwork and occasionally brick pavers. I normally only pour concrete when it's small footings (like for a column.) Additionally, most other mason trades claim to do stonework but I have my doubts. Also, cultured stone is a whole different trade.

-Stucco: Most of these guys will also do cultured stone. Also there is minor crossover between this and sheetrock/plaster. There are also the pool plasterers.

-Concrete: Often divided by flatwork only, and companies that also do formed foundations. The difference seems to be who has invested in the formwork. Concrete overlays seem to be their own trade.

-Tile: This is the trade I started in. Most tile guys do nothing else. Sometimes you will see general flooring guys that do hardwood and vinyl too.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I know. The stucco & cultured stone guys tend to be linked. I have a very skilled journeyman mason who will do block, footing and some stone veneer.

Seems like we see lots of know it alls these days who claim to do lots of trades. Lots of bad veneer work.


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## wazez (Oct 25, 2008)

I was told that a brick block mason does not make a good stone mason.

I have tried stone...turned out ok but was not able to get used to the fact that the joints should not be level:laughing:

Lick and stick I would like to try sometime but everybody does it and I can not compete with on price.

We lay brick and block and footers for our block. I feel more equipment = more overhead therefore I have not invested in flatwork equipment except for a few trowels. I would be interested in hearing from someone that has been able to do both successfully with a small crew (4-5 guys).


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Because of the nature of our rural community, I get asked to do quite a bit of variety. 

I turn down most flat work or sub it out, I know a guy with a framing/building crew that does pretty good flat work. He won't take on big stuff, but small stuff he does a great job.

If a project involves mortar, I will consider it. I find it tough to compete in the lick and stick department. Way too many guys who slap it up like spagetti and collect their check on the way out. 

I do offer maintenance and restoration services as well. 

Full service anything seems to have gone the way of full service gas stations...only if you look real hard are you likely to find one.:laughing:


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Generally speaking I'm like Dakzaag and do anything that involves mortar. Walling for the most part, stone (natural and artificial), block (mostly commercial) and brick (I'm not much of a brick layer, I can make wages but not much more except for repairs where I'm generally faster than most). I don't do stucco, concrete (except to pour footings for my own work) or tile but I really don't consider them to be masonry, but their own trades. I also do cultured stone but my price is 50% higher than the tile setters or the stucco guys so i don't do a lot. 

Full service? depends on what that entails


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

wazez said:


> I would be interested in hearing from someone that has been able to do both successfully with a small crew (4-5 guys).


My main competition in the town I'm in does it all with a crew of between 2-10, in my opinion none of them very well.


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## wazez (Oct 25, 2008)

dom-mas said:


> My main competition in the town I'm in does it all with a crew of between 2-10, in my opinion none of them very well.


That's why I have held back....do I do everything mediocre or do one thing well.:thumbsup:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Adhered veneer is just the finish coat of stucco, so that belongs to them. I see brick/block guys and rock guys but not much mixing, although most stucco or rock guys will lay block if they have to as backup.

Concrete, especially flatwork, is a whole different field, and other than a footing here or there most masons I know leave that to others.


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

Tom M,
I apprenticed with CJKarl in the eighties with the best mason in the area. Stan did it all and shared all his knowledge with us, his students. He always said that if you do it all and don't limit yourself to brick and block/ stonework you would always be busy. My mentor spoke the truth and I know Karl is in the same boat. It takes a certain type of artisan to ply all of the above, it can be done with the right approach. Wazez, myself included I'm a crew of 5, 3 masons, an apprentice(more than that , he just won't pony up 'cause he's afraid his work won't measure up. He's as as good as my third as far as detail and just needs the time on the line to fine tune it.) And my main man Everett, who I would be lost without. He told me 20 years ago he didn't wan't to be a mason and yet he's telling my guys exactly how to do it 'cause 'ya gotta keep the boss and the clients happy. We do and I think it's 'cause we do it all and I have a great crew!

D.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Yup, Kaufmann Masonry LLC for all your masonry needs. ;-)

We do,do it all. About 75% stone, but I can figure out how to do just about any masonry related work.
Done some really nice brickwork. Serpentine walls, recessed Herring bone panels, arches.
LFT, large format tile, limestone and gaged Vermont slate.
Demo and repair /rebuild chimneys, steps and walls.
Historical restoration.
Pavers and driveway aprons.
Soapstone fireboxes.

Starting to sound like an add here.

I even just accepted a job to hammer our a 20x20 garage slab and repour it. I'll probably hand trowel it.

My only advise ........never cut corners on the project ......and always stand behind your work. If you can't /don't take pride in your craft, find another line of work.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Duane and I are lucky to be in a fairly affluent area near the shore and the CT River.
I'm sure he's doing what I'm doing and pretty much NEVER the same thing twice.


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

CJKarl,
Are we as good as our mentor? I certainly know I am as far as stonework. Modular I feel safe to some extent based on my recent buildings, brick and stone. I guess I'm just feeling the pinch at just turning 50 and realizing that my teacher will be 64 this January and could probably still kick our asses laying brick. Correct me if I'm wrong.

D.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I've always pledged that a wide swath of knowledge and abilities is where I wanted to be. Never felt comfortable specializing in one thing as the human mind and body are capable of so much more. 

In addition, nothing worse then waking up one day to find your specialty being fazed out and nothing to fall back on.

Downside to it is you simply have no life with all the time needed to achieve these goals :laughing:

I knew I shoulda just been a cop


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

superseal,
Based on what just happened here, I'm happy to be a mason! My heart goes out... I had to call my son after I heard just to hear his voice!!!

D.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

No doubt, FR's in Sandy Hook have their work cut out for them and police work is a dangerous job. 

Truth is, ever since the age of 7, being a LEO was my 1st. choice for what I wanted to do when I grew up.

Heartfelt condolences to all those families :sad:


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

raskolnikov said:


> CJKarl,
> Are we as good as our mentor? I certainly know I am as far as stonework. Modular I feel safe to some extent based on my recent buildings, brick and stone. I guess I'm just feeling the pinch at just turning 50 and realizing that my teacher will be 64 this January and could probably still kick our asses laying brick. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> D.


Me and my guy John did a stone job with him this summer. He can be fast with the stone, but not so exacting at times.
Judging by some of his brickwork I've seen and helped him on many years ago, I'd say he's still got me beat on that.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

raskolnikov said:


> superseal,
> Based on what just happened here, I'm happy to be a mason! My heart goes out... I had to call my son after I heard just to hear his voice!!!
> 
> D.



How old is Walker now? Karl III just turned 16. In drivers ed. LOOK OUT WORLD!


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## stonepro (Jul 30, 2012)

Just saying that this is a bit of a loaded question based on which market you find yourself working in. Personally, I work the residential,and seem to stay busy by keeping myself on the job, as opposed to saying that someone should call up another co. I mean there was a time when chimney sweeps wouldn't repair or cap, and I wouldn't sweep. That's not so much the case any more. As far as flatwork, I only pour for the builders that I work with often. If I'm building a chimney, doing the front steps, pouring the floors, and laying a walkway, why wouldn't I drop a price on the retaining wall or tile work if they want to keep me around? To be honest, I'd rather do the grade work than say, call johnny to do that, next thing you know he's pouring the floor, and someone's telling me that they thought I didn't want to!


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I know what you mean and thats the thing, the fewer people I involve the better. I understand the repetitions of certain things are vastly different as well as our efficency.
A few guys I know wont touch chimneys' anymore or go upon the roof.

I know guys in the chimney sweep/liner industry that are now doing the masonry. The work is lousy and I know they are not skilled masons. They take on steps too.


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