# gas vs diesel



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

What do ya got, why did you get it and what made you buy it. 

Im thinking of makeing the switch to a diesel. I currently drive a 94 f150 with a 5.0. Best mpg i could get is around 14-16 babying it.

I know a diesel is around the same mpg plus alot more power to haul and tow whatever i need. 

Thoughts and opnions please and thank you


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I've been thinking of this too. However yesterday my mechanic friend told me that oil changes are often around $100, other maintenance much more and the cost being a few thousand more doesn't really add up to any savings.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Only reason I didn't get a diesel was the initial purchase price.


----------



## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

I really like my 05 dodge with the cummins. Gets over 20mpg highway, hauls ass and pulls like a freight train.


----------



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I've been thinking of this too. However yesterday my mechanic friend told me that oil changes are often around $100, other maintenance much more and the cost being a few thousand more doesn't really add up to any savings.


Ive red that they go from 3-7k before oil needs to be changed


----------



## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

Carpenter eyes said:


> Ive red that they go from 3-7k before oil needs to be changed


I change my oil (synthetic), filter and fuel filter every 8000km. Thats a bit over kill especially since I use synthetic but it costs me about $120 to do myself. Most guys do 10,000km +/- with dino oil


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

I switched from diesel to gas this year and glad I did. It saves me a ton of money.
I don't miss 5gallon oil changes and $175 filters.

Cole


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Cole82 said:


> I switched from diesel to gas this year and glad I did. It saves me a ton of money.
> I don't miss 5gallon oil changes and $175 filters.
> 
> Cole


Is there a big difference of mileage when towing?


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Is there a big difference of mileage when towing?


I had an f450 with 12' flat bed. It got 8mpg empty and 7mpg towing anything over 10k. The problem is we work in a wide area and driving 50miles each way every day for work gets expensive. 

The gasser drops to 10mpg towing but is better than the diesel empty. Have had the gasser for 8 months now and has saved me on average of $1200 a month between fuel maintenance and insurance all being cheaper.

Cole


----------



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Cole82 said:


> I had an f450 with 12' flat bed. It got 8mpg empty and 7mpg towing anything over 10k. The problem is we work in a wide area and driving 50miles each way every day for work gets expensive.
> 
> The gasser drops to 10mpg towing but is better than the diesel empty. Have had the gasser for 8 months now and has saved me on average of $1200 a month between fuel maintenance and insurance all being cheaper.
> 
> Cole


Thats a real lot of truck


----------



## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Rarely does it add up to savings over the life lf the vehicle. If you're towing 30% of the time, then it might.


----------



## pizalm (Mar 27, 2009)

Buying a diesel for fuel savings is not a going to save you any money. Everything on the truck will cost more money than a gas job. I have an f350 the mileage is pretty good for what it is, 17 mpg with a 6" lift and big tires, but its not saving me any money over a smaller truck.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The big issue is them being over priced in the used market with 200k miles on them. No way do I want to pay 14k for something with that many miles. Oh sure, the engine may last longer but not all the other parts.


----------



## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

The only diesel I would buy is a pre-2008 model. The newer ones cost much more to operate long term,
$100-$350 oil changes although every 10K miles
many more computers ( mine has 13 )
have to use special low ash oil or problems with EGR valve happen
needs DPF fluid every 3k miles
idling is very bad for diesels now
DP filter will need to be replaced at about 150k cost $3000-$5000

The only reason I bought my sprinter was because of it's size and the fuel mileage was almost double previous truck. If someone makes a gas version same size I will get that when this one reaches the end of the warranty

I like to see the the guys with the big empty f350's idling away all of the time when the owners don't realize that they will be having problems later on.


----------



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

pizalm said:


> Buying a diesel for fuel savings is not a going to save you any money. Everything on the truck will cost more money than a gas job. I have an f350 the mileage is pretty good for what it is, 17 mpg with a 6" lift and big tires, but its not saving me any money over a smaller truck.


Thats why im asking. I know the very basics about diesels but not enough to commit


----------



## pizalm (Mar 27, 2009)

If a 94 f150 is getting the job done for you right now and you see no big changes on the horizon a newer half ton is going to be enough truck for you.


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I have both. But ill never buy another gaser.


----------



## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

I went from an 2006 GMC 2500HD diesel to an 2011 GMC 3500HD gas. I regret it everyday. The gas doesn't have the same towing capacity as the diesel and the fuel economy is horrible. 
I have an entire post about it "Fuel Economy" I am trying to figure out a way to improve the mpg.
My next truck will be a diesel. I heard Dodge and GM will be coming out with a half ton diesel within the next year.


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

If you carry heavy loads most of the time...

or if you are constantly towing heavy stuff....

Then get a Diesel.

But the initial cost, oil changes & repairs are way more than gas.

Also not everyone can work on the diesels...

well that goes for a gasser also....:laughing:


----------



## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

Everyone is saying the oil changes are expensive. I put synthetic in all my vehicles. The oil changes for both the diesel and the gas truck are about $100 and I get them done every 6,000 miles. Which for me is every other month.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

JT Wood said:


> And the 6.9



I can't believe I forgot the old 6.9. I had one of those gutless wonders too.:laughing:


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I can't believe I forgot the old 6.9. I had one of those gutless wonders too.:laughing:


me too. It got 18 mpg though, and it fogged for mosquitoes too :laughing:


----------



## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

superseal said:


> I bought a new 2012 Superduty 6.2 gasser last November



what kind of MPG are you getting?


----------



## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Ninjaframer said:


> Mine has the crappy stock non LCD display, give me the run down on the display you put in.


Avic Z150BH 2013 flagship model :thumbup: This thing rocks, and rolls, and just about everything else. 

Did the backup cam too!

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-Z150BH


----------



## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I think I get around 15 on the highway and 11 around town...My dodge really sucked the fuel at 7/8mpg :blink: and I'm always loaded

I betcha I could get her up higher on a long freeway trip though.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

superseal said:


> I think I get around 15 on the highway and 11 around town...My dodge really sucked the fuel at 7/8mpg :blink: and I'm always loaded
> 
> I betcha I could get her up higher on a long freeway trip though.



my neighbor can get 15 at 55, 10 in town and 7 towing. 

That is horrible for a new vehicle. I can get that with a 78 gmc dually with a big block. ok, not the 15 unless one adds an overdrive tranny.


----------



## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

I love having a diesel. Having the power then when you need it is worth every penny.


But what I am seeing is everyone throwing around mpg numbers, then comparing to gasoline. Have you looked lately at the actual gallon cost at the pump on diesel vs. gas... Unless you are comparing premium... Itscnotvapp
Ed to apples.


----------



## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

I have a gas and used to have a diesel. I regret switching. I get 9.5 mpg. All my expenses for the truck have been truck related not engine related. And you guys with those wimpy house payments- I'm jealous. We are over 2k/month on our mortgage payment.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> my neighbor can get 15 at 55, 10 in town and 7 towing.
> 
> That is horrible for a new vehicle. I can get that with a 78 gmc dually with a big block. ok, not the 15 unless one adds an overdrive tranny.


I don't think that's bad considering he carries 17 ladders 12 umbrellas and a fully stocked bar back there.


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

elementbldrs said:


> I love having a diesel. Having the power then when you need it is worth every penny.
> 
> 
> But what I am seeing is everyone throwing around mpg numbers, then comparing to gasoline. Have you looked lately at the actual gallon cost at the pump on diesel vs. gas... Unless you are comparing premium... Itscnotvapp
> Ed to apples.


Gasoline $3.29
Diesel $3.89 
As of yesterday had to buy diesel for the scissor lift. Still makes Makes Gas win any way you look at it in my case.

Cole


----------



## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Cole82 said:


> Gasoline $3.29
> Diesel $3.89
> As of yesterday had to buy diesel for the scissor lift. Still makes Makes Gas win any way you look at it in my case.
> 
> Cole


That's my point. How can someone say this diesel gets this mpg and my gasser gets this. It's not comparable price wise.

Still love my diesel though. Admittedly, a tundra I'd on my hit list though. Need the city driving/parking capabilities.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The point is, the oil burners are trying to justify having and spending more on an oil burner, by saying that the better mpgs makes it worth it. 

I have said bull the whole time. Extra cost of engine, fuel, maintenance and repairs are not worth it. It will not even out.


----------



## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Master_wa said:


> I prefer gas because it cheaper than diesel and also helpful for environment.


Gasoline is cheaper than diesel currently, but I do not understand the last part of your statement. Please enlighten us less informed peeps...:blink:


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Diesel is cheaper then gas some times. It goes back and forth.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> Diesel is cheaper then gas some times. It goes back and forth.


Diesel is cheaper here now but they flip flop.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It has been at least 50 cents a gallon more here for a long time, sometimes a buck more.


----------



## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It has been at least 50 cents a gallon more here for a long time, sometimes a buck more.


I don't get it- diesel is a less refined product than gasoline. How can it cost more?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Supply and demand. Demand for OTR deisel is not close to gasoline.


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Ninjaframer said:


> I don't get it- diesel is a less refined product than gasoline. How can it cost more?


I think they are comparing it to 87 octane.


----------



## SDel Prete (Jan 8, 2012)

Ninjaframer said:


> I don't get it- diesel is a less refined product than gasoline. How can it cost more?


My guess is do to transportation of goods. Like huge barges and big rigs. They use a crap load of diesel so maybe they figured they could make more profit from it. 

Just a guess


----------



## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I drove gas for many yrs and now i drive diesels and love them. The D-Max's all come with the Allison tranny and i will argue all day long it is the toughest tranny out there. All D-Maxs come with the G-80 rear locker too, big difference in traction in the winter especially of you do a lot of towing/plowing. Oil changes and filters, yes they do cost more but i run mine an average of 18-20k on the oil using full synthetic. The air filter gets replaced every spring and the fuel filter when it begins to lose power under load. The diesel does cost more to purchase, but is designed to last much longer than the gasser and holds its value much longer. Engine repairs? Yup, more expensive but try to find a truck that has a good reputation for reliability. Keep the truck stock and it will last longer too. For the Fords i would either buy an older 7.3 or the new Scorpion but nothing in between. Last yr of the 7.3 was 2003, the scorpion came out in 2011 so Ford had 8yrs of crap diesels IMO. Dodges, just cannot beat them. The Cummins is a time proven engine. Some had injector pump issues, head gasket issues but that was about it. D-Maxs? I would only buy an LBZ for the best pre emission engine and tranny combo. The only real problems with the LBZ was the EGR system. The 04-05 LLY generation were good trucks too but some had overheating issues and only the 5spd Ally.

If your going new look into the eco-boost for towing and gas mileage, the GMC/Chevy 5.3 get 18-20 mpg and the new Dodge Hemi is now getting up to 21-23mpg and has gobs of power. Do some test driving yourself, see what you like and how it fits in your budget. Myself i am sticking with diesels as i tow all the time and i like the fact i have no tranny worries or issues when plowing.


----------



## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

I just bought a 2013 jetta diesel I should have done it years ago.
I still need my truck at 15 mpg but not every day.
Job walk thrus dropping of bids comuting to the office. And I even carry a technician case and a set of cordlesses for the odd job. Or I lock up the tools on site and use the 40 mpg car for the rest of the week.


----------



## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Ninjaframer said:


> I don't get it- diesel is a less refined product than gasoline. How can it cost more?


They get less of it out of the refinement process. In simple terms, there's less diesel in crude.


----------



## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Supply and demand. Demand for OTR deisel is not close to gasoline.


That's the opposite of supply and demand.


----------



## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Master_wa said:


> I prefer gas because it cheaper than diesel and also helpful for environment.


Diesel is better for the environment as far as CO2. More work per unit of CO2 released.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Golden view said:


> That's the opposite of supply and demand.


No it's not you are both failing to consider that there is both a supply side and demand side of supply and demand. Therefore you are both wrong.:thumbsup:


----------



## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

Ninjaframer said:


> I don't get it- diesel is a less refined product than gasoline. How can it cost more?


Diesel cost less then gas for years, until. The government put higher refinery standards on it. They took more of the sulfur out of it. This caused the product to be handled more which caused the price to increase. Now with less sulfur it ran worst in conventional Diesel engines. It caused injectors to fail. Then the government said the exhausted from these rough running trucks needs to be cleaner. So in 2008 they put reburners on the trucks. The trucks sucked! So in 2011 most of the manufacturers introduced a completely new engine with a diesel exhaust fluid system. 
Now they run better and cleaner and cost a hell a lot more to own.

Remember diesel is a byproduct of the gasoline refining process. They originally designed these engines to run on peanut oil. Then they discovered it would run on the waste oil left over from making gasoline.

Diesel is much better for the environment then gasoline.

I will now step off my soapbox.:clap::clap:


----------



## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

Ninjaframer said:


> I don't get it- diesel is a less refined product than gasoline. How can it cost more?


The pump price is largely determined by the allocation of a barrel of crude. Last I heard, 43% of the barrel was to be refined into gasoline and between 11-13% into diesel. Those % are based on natural supply and demand. If more people started driving diesel vehicles, specifically cars, the cost at the pump would be cheaper than gas, probably significantly...


----------



## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

DEF systems have been in diesels since 08 or 09. Along with the Diesel Particulate Filter which is a problem along with EGR problems. DEF while $7 gallon lasts me 3k miles ( 2 gal). The newer low sulfur diesel seems to burn cooler causing incomplete combustion causing the need to add DEF (urea ) to be added to heat up the DPF during regeneration to burn away the soot. 
EGR valves are getting sooted up from idling below 1500rpm and using the wrong oil. 

I think you would need a cost per mile to really see which one is best, the 300k mile lifespan with the diesels is long over. Considering the replacement costs of all the associated parts at 150k it does not make economic sense.


----------



## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I just purchased a 2013 Dodge Ram Hemi.
6000 km later I am getting 16.4 ltr per 100 k. City and some hiway combined.
It will do much better on the hiway alone but that is not real life.
It translates to roughly 14.8 mp us gallon.
I rarely tow, and could not justify the need for a diesel,
Although I would like to have one with a really loud exhaust, and park it next to my neighbours house and let it run for a day or two. :devil2: :laughing:


----------



## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

One thing I want to add... the lifespan a truck, especially a work truck, is a lot more than just the engine. My diesel has 130,000 and is an '04 F250... motor is surviving, but body, suspension and interior aren't gonna make it another 130,000.


----------



## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I hope to be retired before I hit that kind of mileage. 
When this is paid for....:thumbsup:


----------



## TAHomeRepairs (Jun 18, 2012)

elementbldrs said:


> One thing I want to add... the lifespan a truck, especially a work truck, is a lot more than just the engine. My diesel has 130,000 and is an '04 F250... motor is surviving, but body, suspension and interior aren't gonna make it another 130,000.


How so? I just traded my 2002 silverado with 332,750 (which pist me off as I wanted to see all threes)@185 k did a tranny, about 215k did a fuel pump, about 230 needed an alternator. 

Somewhere inn there swapped a battery. Others than that, no issues. Only reason I traded was tranny went out again. Couldn't spend 2500 on a 3k dollar truck. I towed right at its weight limit alot, it didn't like it. 

If the tranny would've held I would still be driving it. Mechanically it was fine, this was a gasser. Drove straight never needed an alignment, brakes were fine, regular oil changes, keep it greased etc.


----------



## lifestooshort81 (Sep 8, 2012)

Carpenter eyes said:


> What do ya got, why did you get it and what made you buy it.
> 
> Im thinking of makeing the switch to a diesel. I currently drive a 94 f150 with a 5.0. Best mpg i could get is around 14-16 babying it.
> 
> ...


For what it's worth and I haven't read they each an every other reply but I have a 96 f250 power stroke diesel. Same body as your 94, diesel powered and mine happens to be a 4x4, super cab and long bed. With 165,000+ miles on the motor/tranny I was averaging 18 sometimes more MPG. My mileage has gone down in the last 2 years BUT I think I actually have a fuel leak I can't seem to prove. I also haven't devoted more than 2 minutes to looking for it since I don't drive the truck much. 

As an older ford truck and diesel enthusiast, I personally would suggest finding a 96-03 f250 or 350 with a 7.3 liter powerstroke diesel. If you need 4x4 stay away from the 250 as their front axl uses a twin traction beam/independent suspension and are not easy to keep aligned. Look at ANY 4x4 f250 of this vintage and you'll see the front wheels are always canted in, front tires irregularly worn, et.al. F350 4x4's don't have this problem since they use a solid front axl. 

the 7.3 power stroke is an amazing powerful, reliable and easily tuned motor. After 03 ford started using the 6.0 power stroke...with tons of reported issues. Stay away. 

My next stint is to start making bio-diesel and burning it in my rig! 

Good luck. Hope this helps.


----------



## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

I loved the mid 90's Fords. They are unstoppable.


----------



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Update: not looking for any new diesel. I dont want a new truck. I did find a few diesels used in my budget. Sence i work on all my own stuff none of that is an issue. Just nothing worth my time yet

I did find a 99 f250 with the 7.3. 410k miles. Ive never seen anything with that massive milage


----------



## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

Carpenter eyes said:


> Update: not looking for any new diesel. I dont want a new truck. I did find a few diesels used in my budget. Sence i work on all my own stuff none of that is an issue. Just nothing worth my time yet
> 
> I did find a 99 f250 with the 7.3. 410k miles. Ive never seen anything with that massive milage


In that case I'll mention that for both the dodges and fords the manual transmission seemed to hold up much better than the auto.


----------



## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

Carpenter eyes said:


> Update: not looking for any new diesel. I dont want a new truck. I did find a few diesels used in my budget. Sence i work on all my own stuff none of that is an issue. Just nothing worth my time yet
> 
> I did find a 99 f250 with the 7.3. 410k miles. Ive never seen anything with that massive milage


That 7.3 is a million mile motor if it was well maintained. The one thing I would look at is the frame. Those frames are week in the center and tend to bend where the cab meets the bed.


----------



## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

superseal said:


> Avic Z150BH 2013 flagship model :thumbup: This thing rocks, and rolls, and just about everything else.
> 
> Did the backup cam too!
> 
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/GPS-Navigation/AVIC-Z150BH


I had to get one- I got the 550bch and back up cam. Had em do the overide so it plays movies while in drive. Thing is sweet.


----------

