# Square footage and costs.



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

This is a sore topic with me...the misconception about what is the basis by which we construct new homes. 

It is common, at least in this area, for realtors to use "heated or conditioned" sq/ft, and then add the garage, for a total frame number. 

I was recently accused of failing to give "full disclosure" of what I consider to be an accurate sq/ft basis. The sq.ft on a house plan means little to me, because the basis by which I calculate sq.ft is the footprint of the building envelope. And...if there are extensive roof lines or porches that cover a few thousand feet, then obviously, this needs to be factored in. 

A customer with a new home plan that says 2400 sq.ft, but the actual footprint is more like 3800 expected to pay only for the conditioned space, or what they thought is the industry standard. Well.......I haven't heard of anyone building for free yet, or free materials. 


So how do the rest of you guys in the new home or custom home trade actually define the basis by which we build?


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

what if the 'standard' for that size house is a two car garage...what happens if the builder/HO wants a three car garage? 

sorry-no other pertinent information since I'm a 'remodeler'.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

A very sore subject with me also. The question is usually phrased "What's the average cost for a home". Well take 3 different groups of people and all will have a different idea of average. Suppose one set of well heeled folks thinks an average home cost is $600-700/sq ft. Then maybe the next guy thinks $200-3000sq ft then the poor guy that it will break the bank to pay $100/sq ft. When folks who are looking at the lower end of the spectrum always seem to assume the average house comes w/6 panel solid oak doors & jambs w/stain grade trim, base & crown. Custom made cherry kitchen cabinets and granite counter tops. I gave up on sq. foot pricing many years ago. I figure anyone who asks is just kicking tires anyways & I don't got any vehicles for sale.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Excuse me while I rant. From a framers standpoint, I've had builders and HO/GCs try to get me to discount stairwells from square footage, or calculate room dimensions instead of footprint.

If you don't want to pay me for the stairwell, I will frame over it and deck it, faster than I can lay it out and structure it properly. Then you can get someone else to frame it for free. Open foyers are the same thing. More labor involved to make it right, but they want to pay less for it.

Anyway, yeah, I know where you're coming from.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

were currently dealing with the same sorta thing, framing a custom 5000 ft house, the ho is trying to say we would have the thing framed up in 3 weeks which we never said, wants it to be done cheaper and faster. however we have 4 engineered tall walls built out of lvl, 3 are 2x8 the largest one is 2x10 lvl which is a wall of glass.

we can do it faster which will be cheaper however its not going to be nearly as strong or square


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I routinely get asked how much it costs per ft² to wire a house. I can't buy my material by the ft², so there's no way to calculate it. 

What the HO wants in the house has a major impact on my cost. Do they want Code minimum, or do they want to go hog-wild? I can wire a 2Kft² house for 8 grand, and I can wire a 2Kft² house for 80 grand.

I can buy a Kia for ten grand, or I can buy a Ferrari for a quarter mil, but they both still only have four tires. So how much per tire does it cost to build a car?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

I always had to work with sq ft pricing whichever side of the fence I was on. Number crunchers and realtors just seem to think that way.

Bidding, I got around it by either working up a realistic number on a single house and simply dividing it by the total (conditioned AND unconditioned) square footage.

Or... this way:

Groups of homes or subdivisions usually got broken down into three or four classifications of the developer's representative floorplans.... basic simple homes, and grouped homes that got progressively more intricate or complicated. Each group usually got a jump of about $80 sf over the previous cheaper price group, and was about the same amount less than the next more expensive group.

That is a less than desirable way to price your work, but we're in Rome where the Romans mostly all think sq ft. If you break the groupings down intelligently, you usually come out OK.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Willie T, you are correct.:notworthy I was thinking more towards the custom stuff.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

griz said:


> Willie T, you are correct.:notworthy I was thinking more towards the custom stuff.


Cookie-cutter tracts are easy to figure for a ft² price when they all get Hardiplank siding, vinyl in the kitchen and berber everywhere else, Formica c'tops, etc.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Surprisingly, I found over the years that if you could get past the realtors, most home buyers of pure custom jobs seldom asked the square footage price. They had already invested enough time and money with architects, designers, and engineers to get those sets of bid plans they handed you to know better.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Cookie cutter tracts. That's cute.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

480sparky said:


> ...Cookie-cutter tracts...


Always thought that was a Calif. term.:laughing:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Willie T said:


> Surprisingly, I found over the years that if you could get past the realtors, most home buyers of pure custom jobs seldom asked the square footage price. They had already invested enough time and money with architects, designers, and engineers to get those sets of bid plans they handed you to know better.


Yup. I can't seem to say much right anywhere tonight.
Gonna go to bed before I embarrass my self anymore.:whistling


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

griz said:


> Always thought that was a Calif. term.:laughing:



I use it often, so it will remain in our lexicon after Califunky falls into the ocean.


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## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

joasis said:


> .
> 
> A customer with a new home plan that says 2400 sq.ft, but the actual footprint is more like 3800 expected to pay only for the conditioned space, or what they thought is the industry standard. Well.......I haven't heard of anyone building for free yet, or free materials.


square footage under roof.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

bhock said:


> square footage under roof.


Yes, in many custom homes, you HAVE to figure "under roof", not just from exterior walls. Often some of the most intricate gingerbread is in the soffit and fascia area. Some entryways can resemble a small home, in and of themselves.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

So the this "extra" 1400 square feet is all in roof? Or is there a garage. I remember builders not wanting to pay full sq ft price for the garage. Which I never liked.


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## key-ok (Oct 25, 2010)

we always work by the hour. saves alot of headaces.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*the tri angle method*

The first thing i do when asked by a"potential" client what something will cost to build is as follows. I draw a tri-angle on paper and label each point with one of these words GOOD,FAST CHEAP.I then explain when one goes out in market place to consume goods and/or services you get to pick two points . If they argue they want all 3 i walk, no run. That way they can not waste any more of my time. If they pass that first one and are still pressing the cost topic, i say close your eyes and imagine you are at your front door. As you reach to open it what does your grab,a 350 dollar baldwin lockset,or a $30 quickset? Ithen explain i need the answers to about a 1000 other questions just like that & then we will both have a real good idea what this dream of yours will cost to materalize.


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## Sar-Con (Jun 23, 2010)

Most realitors and developers work there budgets by the sf - it provides them with a common denominator for analysis and dertimination of value.

As a sub, it's best to know what your numbers range from, so when asked the question you have an intellent answer. Always qualify your perameters, such as: the footprint of the enclosed, conditioned space - no deductions for openings such as stair cases. Other qualifications can include the quality of materials, site conditions etc.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

480sparky said:


> I routinely get asked how much it costs per ft² to wire a house. I can't buy my material by the ft², so there's no way to calculate it.
> 
> What the HO wants in the house has a major impact on my cost. Do they want Code minimum, or do they want to go hog-wild? I can wire a 2Kft² house for 8 grand, and I can wire a 2Kft² house for 80 grand.
> 
> I can buy a Kia for ten grand, or I can buy a Ferrari for a quarter mil, but they both still only have four tires. So how much per tire does it cost to build a car?




That's just silly.


Buying a Kia, that is. :jester:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

VinylHanger said:


> That's just silly.
> 
> 
> Buying a Kia, that is. :jester:


Why you can get two for ten grand. :laughing:


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