# Home owner wants 90,000 different quotes and keeps changing things



## BuddySteinle (Mar 11, 2016)

so this customer is the most ADD person I have ever met. he keeps adding and subtracting and adding and subtracting. wants 7 different quotes 7 different ways for every single things. the guy send me 10 emails a day he's driving me nuts. 

I almost wanna just tell him to find quotes from other contractors to do the additional work but then #1. ill have to deal with other contractors and the mess that goes along with that and #2. he will still have me constantly deducting or changing what I'm contracted to do based on what type of suggestions he gets from this other guy.

I don't know what to do with him its taking all my time just running around and spending time putting together an average of 6 variations for every little thing and then a week later he comes up with a new bright idea.

Ill give an example

HVAC: has a boiler with radiators, wants a quote to keep boiler and add ductwork and ac unit
then wants a quote to take out boiler, remove radiators, patch floors and install a furnace,
then wants a quote for a split system 
then wants a quote for baseboard heaters
then wants a quote to have the chase running on the outside of the house
then wants to check the prices like 6 different manufactures and all the different bells and whistles like I'm some human auto construction dictionary with every single frivolous price variable auto calculated in my head at the drop of a dime

all this comes today in 6 different emails within 3 hours


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Tell him you are going to start charging for the time it takes to quote.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

One sky-high price: $10 grand.

Everything cost ten grandish. Your welcome:thumbup:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Have you got any happy jobs you can post about?

You know - for a change of pace?:thumbsup:


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Just ignore the emails- by tomorrow he'll be back to wanting the original quote.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Wonder how long it will take to pick the paint colours?


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## Gatorgrizz27 (Nov 1, 2015)

jlhaslip said:


> Wonder how long it will take to pick the paint colours?


Lesson I learned from my buddy in the business. When an indecisive female HO would ask him what he thought about paint, he used to reply "I don't know ma'am, it's your house, I'm just here to make it the way you want it."

After realizing that they would hold up the job for a month or more trying different paint colors or deciding, he now just picks the first one that he thinks won't look like crap with the rest of the house and tells them that would be his recommendation. Jobs get done much faster now and everyone is happy. :thumbsup:

Sounds like your guy could use a dose of pushing some particular recommendations on him. Pick the options that you would prefer to install and you think he would be satisfied with and sell it...


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## BuddySteinle (Mar 11, 2016)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Have you got any happy jobs you can post about?
> 
> 
> 
> You know - for a change of pace?:thumbsup:



Lol I hear you man 


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## BuddySteinle (Mar 11, 2016)

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> Lesson I learned from my buddy in the business. When an indecisive female HO would ask him what he thought about paint, he used to reply "I don't know ma'am, it's your house, I'm just here to make it the way you want it."
> 
> After realizing that they would hold up the job for a month or more trying different paint colors or deciding, he now just picks the first one that he thinks won't look like crap with the rest of the house and tells them that would be his recommendation. Jobs get done much faster now and everyone is happy. :thumbsup:
> 
> Sounds like your guy could use a dose of pushing some particular recommendations on him. Pick the options that you would prefer to install and you think he would be satisfied with and sell it...



This guy is one of those internet Google machines. He will research for hours upon hours and it pulls him in 20 different directions then on top of that call 20 different people meticulously taking notes. It's like he never shuts off. I don't know how he works 


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I give an estimate for free (range of numbers) and then charge for design work. This sounds like design work. Charge for your time.


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

You check your email too often. Start checking (or pretending to) once a day.


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## Bearded Wonder (Jan 21, 2011)

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> Lesson I learned from my buddy in the business. When an indecisive female HO would ask him what he thought about paint, he used to reply "I don't know ma'am, it's your house, I'm just here to make it the way you want it."
> 
> After realizing that they would hold up the job for a month or more trying different paint colors or deciding, he now just picks the first one that he thinks won't look like crap with the rest of the house and tells them that would be his recommendation. Jobs get done much faster now and everyone is happy. :thumbsup:
> 
> Sounds like your guy could use a dose of pushing some particular recommendations on him. Pick the options that you would prefer to install and you think he would be satisfied with and sell it...


Double thumbs up on this. My boss is a master at this, and I don't know if it's a learned skill or one you're born with, but it's a good one to have.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I would explain that the project is escalating its course from a free estimate to commissioned design time. I would push for a letter of intent with a scheduling deposit of 1 grandish and an agreement on hourly design fee that is invoiced daily... see what happens then.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Tell the man," you only ONE free quote per remodel, everything else is a change order with a minimum of $100.00/ 1% fee whatever is greater, plus whatever the Sub needs to generate the window shopping prices....

Refund the Quote charges If and when the customer pays in full for that change order. One change order a day, no change order on credit.....

Only one set of quotes per house: Its the standard of the trade.

Rent him an old RS Means Price guide.

Get the quotes and BILL for them, the behavior will most likely stop...

You can't afford to spend all day teaching your customer how to bid work. Or piss off all of your subs with Zombie Quotes.

Explain to your customer that he is exhausting the $ and time that you'd normally use to manage his original work and its warranty claims.

bring this SS Titanic to shore, collect every $ this snake owes you and document every phone call, Email, smoke signals etc....get permission to record every meeting, I can't remember S^&t, so I tape record okay?....Always have a witness in the room....

Did you Vet this clown for civil laws claims... etc...:sad:


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Gatorgrizz27 said:


> Lesson I learned from my buddy in the business. When an indecisive female HO would ask him what he thought about paint, he used to reply "I don't know ma'am, it's your house, I'm just here to make it the way you want it."
> 
> After realizing that they would hold up the job for a month or more trying different paint colors or deciding, he now just picks the first one that he thinks won't look like crap with the rest of the house and tells them that would be his recommendation. Jobs get done much faster now and everyone is happy. :thumbsup:
> 
> Sounds like your guy could use a dose of pushing some particular recommendations on him. Pick the options that you would prefer to install and you think he would be satisfied with and sell it...


I always bring a previous job into it. Something like, "We usually use an off white. However, if you want, we can go with an off white with just a tinge of brown, Marshmallow, or a tinge of blue, Skylight Mist, etc. Or I tell them I am fond of Art Deco pastels. That one usually gets them to pick a color, unless they like Art Deco, then I get to pick it.

I really don't think people realize how long a bid takes. Especially a remodel bid with various subs. I now my subs would humor me for a while, then they would just tell me to figure it out and get back to them. They don't have all day to figure all the various choices either. It can take a whole day just to put together one simple bid, let alone a changing, swaying bid where you don't even know where to aim.

The way I deal with this situation, is usually go to a T&M contract. Let him know, the money will usually work out in his favor, as you aren't covering your rear on every quote because you don't know where to go with it. It is the truth, and it will make your life and his much easier. You know he will be making changes as you go, and this way he can make them, you do them and no one gets burned.

"like I'm some human auto construction dictionary with every single frivolous price variable auto calculated in my head at the drop of a dime" That pretty much sums up what he is thinking. It's pretty common.


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## colevalleytim (Mar 1, 2008)

He's scared. Probably terrified of doing the wrong thing or getting ripped off. 

Sit down with him and try to get to the bottom of the issue.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Your guy needs to hire a consultant. OR you can offer to charge him a consultation fee of $150/hr. But without any kind of solid plan, you can't give this guy a quote.


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## BuddySteinle (Mar 11, 2016)

All very sound advice. Let me ask this question, because I feel like this is where it will go, what if he says "OK I'll just get free quotes from other contractors until I figure out what I want and go with one of them" ? 


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

BuddySteinle said:


> All very sound advice. Let me ask this question, because I feel like this is where it will go, what if he says "OK I'll just get free quotes from other contractors until I figure out what I want and go with one of them" ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then you have just met Joe Average Customer.

And you aren't doing your job as a contractor.

Your job is to meet & greet, glad hand, give a ball park and QUALIFY that customer. Anything beyond the "Oh about tree-fiddy" requires work.

We get paid for doing work, yes? So they put some money on the table for your troubles.

When you go to the Doctor and say "What's wrong with me Doc?" - do you go out the door free or does he/she charge?

Alright Doc, get with the program.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Then you have just met Joe Average Customer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do if you do bad ass trim work :whistling


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## SavannahReno (Aug 18, 2015)

VinylHanger said:


> I always bring a previous job into it. Something like, "We usually use an off white. However, if you want, we can go with an off white with just a tinge of brown, Marshmallow, or a tinge of blue, Skylight Mist, etc. Or I tell them I am fond of Art Deco pastels. That one usually gets them to pick a color, unless they like Art Deco, then I get to pick it.
> 
> I really don't think people realize how long a bid takes. Especially a remodel bid with various subs. I now my subs would humor me for a while, then they would just tell me to figure it out and get back to them. They don't have all day to figure all the various choices either. It can take a whole day just to put together one simple bid, let alone a changing, swaying bid where you don't even know where to aim.
> 
> ...


I was very recently having the same issue as the OP. Customers were all over the place. After the second full estimate I offered to do the work at T&M and shared some examples of how this should work in their favor. I was also smart enough to let them know it could go the other way.

They accepted the T&M offer yesterday. I agree with the others that this is a good option in situations like this.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I did a t & m remodel a few years back. Make sure you collect monies owed weekly; Im glad I did. If you dont and they get a bill for *** instead of x then x then x you are more likely ti encounter selective memory syndrome.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Metro M & L said:


> I did a t & m remodel a few years back. Make sure you collect monies owed weekly; Im glad I did. If you dont and they get a bill for *** instead of x then x then x you are more likely ti encounter selective memory syndrome.


For sure. After a week or two, things that were of dire importance and cost didn't matter, suddenly become not really worth paying the whole cost. 


Things like a hand texture was a must, however, after thinking about it, we should have sprayed it, so I'll just pay for that. Or if some repairs took a long time, they tend to forget the wailing and knashing of teeth it took you to fix it once everything is covered up and wonder what took so long. Weekly is a must. At least until you have a trusting relationship.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

An analogy would be buying airline tickets, the closer to takeoff, the more $$ the seat costs and the fewer options remain on the table. Or like a car at the dealership, you can't change the color now....

You must expose the Customer to the principles of CPM, and use some type of Gnatt charting to keep track of deadlines for all Critical Path Points... Penalties/charges and added time must be accessed or you'll end up broke building the "perfect house" over a two year period the customer can't afford to pay for, and NO ONE else wants to buy either.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

BuddySteinle said:


> what if he says "OK I'll just get free quotes from other contractors until I figure out what I want and go with one of them" ?


I'd be willing to bet that none of them will be as patient as you and the guy will eventually be calling you back.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Recently had the same issue. Customer wanted the work bid about 6 different ways. I bid one section of the project and told them we would see where this estimate took us.

They didn't hire me for the work, but they didn't hire anyone else either.

As for time and material. Big fan. Not only have I had good luck with it, I think the customers have gotten the best deal. It's nice to have those jobs sometimes. Never had an issue with payment. Apparently a lot of small bites is easier to accept than one big bite. I have been billing every 2 weeks. Almost always get a check within a couple days.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

It is funny how people look at the same amount differently. I had one customer who had no problem writing one big check with everything paid up front. 5 figure checks. However, doing weekly T&M job would make them get all antsy and stressed out asking questions about everything, even though in the end it saved them a bunch of money. Most folks are the opposite. 

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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

At some point,possibly much earlier on, (depending on fact he has or has no beard) I would have to tell him, "man,you are lucky you don't have a beard,'cause if you did,you would not get a wink of sleep,you would be constantly tossing and turning,worrying whether you would fall asleep with your beard sticking out of the covers or out of them"


Your minutia wears me out,I'M out of here.


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## gordonreese (Mar 21, 2016)

Start charging him a rate for your time as others have suggested. Explain to him that your time is valuable and that you can't be spending so much time discussing his changes. Either he will continue doing what he's doing and pay you for your time, or he will stop with the peanut gallery and you win either way.


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## Plans by Marcy (May 12, 2016)

*Do you have a website?*

I kept running into this type of thing too. I sometimes find myself half way through a drawing, then my customer wants to make changes, so I posted some terms on my website, leaving room to adjust quoted prices of my drawings plans once I begin a set of plans. Some changes require several hours to alter, so you have to be fair to yourself as well as your client. Having a few guidelines in writing keeps the peace.

If a client doesn't know what they want, I will sometimes work by the hour until we've hammered down a plan they like, then quote them a fixed price for turning those ideas into permit plans. Each client is an individual and sometimes you just gotta go with the flow. 

Full disclosure up front in regards to prices and revisions, creating added work on your part might save you a few headaches, depending on how your work. It usually works for me. :whistling


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