# Pay a sub



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

jamestrd said:


> EthanB said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to thank you but I have a feeling that you might have just made that up.:blink:[/QUOTe
> ...


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## Tony Robins (Mar 14, 2014)

EthanB said:


> Ditto. I agree with pretty much everything but that. If the HO was really pissed off because he was actually inconvenienced somehow then I'd cough up a large discount. For adding a couple days to the project, I can't imagine eating the labor AND the materials. If he's a little disappointed then give him a 200-300 gift card to a swanky restaurant at the end of the project. The first, and most important, thing you need to give a customer when you screw up is an apology, not cash.



I agree. And seeing as the HO only appears to be slightly frustrated by it, giving him the job free of charge wouldn't have a significantly better affect than giving him a 50% discount.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

EthanB said:


> Ditto. I agree with pretty much everything but that. If the HO was really pissed off because he was actually inconvenienced somehow then I'd cough up a large discount. For adding a couple days to the project, I can't imagine eating the labor AND the materials. If he's a little disappointed then give him a 200-300 gift card to a swanky restaurant at the end of the project. The first, and most important, thing you need to give a customer when you screw up is an apology, not cash.


Ethan,
check your calendar. Remember it is MARCH and we are talking about a ROOF.

so Imagine it's March and I hire you.

Your sub tears off my roof--in MARCH in Wisconsin
and he bones the install so bad that the only way to really correct the situation-is to tear off the roof AGAIN in MARCH in WISCONSIN and replace the entire roof.

do you REALLY think coming to me like a three year old and saying " I am sorry" and then handing me a $200 gift card to Sizzler is going to make this right.

For Real?

In Fact- the customer HAS been inconvenienced to a LARGE degree and he has been placed at significant risk TWICE. the fact that he isn't screaming and hollering is besides the point.

A $200 gift card is INSULTING- it's dis-respectful, It completely under-plays the massive failure by the sub-and if I were the customer, the moment you pulled out that absurd gift card would be the moment your REAL problems began.

Ethan- I can't speak for anyone else here- I can only tell you what I would do.

For the majority of my career I did roofing work in a 10 block radius of my home. In virtually every case I knew the customers well-- they were family,friends, neighbors- people I had a close relationship with- or people who were close to those I had a close relationship with.........

If I replace a roof for someone I feel I have taken on a major responsibility- this roof protects their HOME- and all their worldly goods beneath it- it's where their children played and where their grandchildren come to visit--------------

If I do a roof for a customer I am going to do everything in my power to fulfill the trust the customer has placed in me and I would be ashamed to pull out that gift certificate.

Having said all that------------ it's only recently come to light that this customer is a landlord. I don't do work for landlords-so If I had known THAT bit of info. I would not have commented on this thread at all, because My background and perspective would be irrelevant to the situauton.

Best wishes,
stephen


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## BThomas (Apr 21, 2013)

Stupid question
How did you know there was only one course of I&W instead of two if the job was complete when you saw it? If someone was watching why was not anything said at the time. Other items you can see but ??
Just curious.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Stephen H said:


> Ethan,
> check your calendar. Remember it is MARCH and we are talking about a ROOF.
> 
> so Imagine it's March and I hire you.
> ...


 You are putting an awful lot of assumptions into this Stephen, as am I. Bam said it was a one day install and that the sub went back one other time to work on it. So, IMO, this situation can be handled pretty easily and without disrespecting the HO. It's one more day of work. We don't even know if the HO was home for the install. So if it were me, I'd be happy with the guy making the job right and having the integrity to tell me about it when I can't even see the darn thing from the ground. I'd be even happier if, a week later I got a nice note from the guy thanking me for my patience and taking me and my wife out to a nice dinner.

I'm not the HO so it needs to be gauged off his reaction. I've had customers who weren't even slightly bothered by large problems that need to be corrected and HO's who freak out because silicone in the shower is shiny.

I'm in business to feed my family. I really, really want happy customers. I haven't had a customer I couldn't make happy in years. Giving away the entire job cost has never even crossed my mind. If I wanted to give away $5,6,7k, it would be going to cancer research or the Humane Society.

My $.02.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

This is an income property for the homeowner. He has repeatedly told me how happy he is with how we are handling it and how responsive I've been to the problems. As I mentioned, he's been very kind and patient.

My saying the roof needs to be removed is most likely being over dramatic. 9/10 companies accept this kind of work around here, I do not. The main reason I think tearing off is easier is if he demanded that 6ft IW be installed as it is only 15 feet from ridge to gutter line. Removing the bottom 7 feet on a steep roof is quite the task but as mentioned he is fine with accepting $750 off the job just to avoid that.

I noticed IW wasn't installed from inside the attic. The sheathing is plank and approx. 1/8 gaps. I was able to see it wasn't on.


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## BThomas (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks Bam
I don't know that I would be able to tell there was no I&W though a 1/8 gap but I am not a roofer. The reason I questioned it was that I have a customer that had ice damning two years ago and a lot of interior water damage. I did all the interior repairs and a roofing contractor was supposed to add I&W to the entire roof over this room ( Maybe 2 square at most ) . I received a call from them the other day that the same thing happened in the same area and I question if the I&W was ever installed by the roofing contractor two years ago. I don't believe they would have had the repeat problem if if was installed. I plan on removing a section of the roofing to check and was curious if there was another way to check.
Bill T


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

EthanB said:


> You are putting an awful lot of assumptions into this Stephen, as am I. Bam said it was a one day install and that the sub went back one other time to work on it. So, IMO, this situation can be handled pretty easily and without disrespecting the HO. It's one more day of work. We don't even know if the HO was home for the install. So if it were me, I'd be happy with the guy making the job right and having the integrity to tell me about it when I can't even see the darn thing from the ground. I'd be even happier if, a week later I got a nice note from the guy thanking me for my patience and taking me and my wife out to a nice dinner.
> 
> I'm not the HO so it needs to be gauged off his reaction. I've had customers who weren't even slightly bothered by large problems that need to be corrected and HO's who freak out because silicone in the shower is shiny.
> 
> ...


 Ethan,
you have not read the facts Bam presented.

Original install was 8 hours.

At the time of Bams posting 4 men had already worked 5 hours on repairs.
Bam estimated there were 8 MORE hours of repairs left to go.
and further, Bam reported he was having problems getting the sub back to do the remainder of the repairs

this is not a situation where somebody had to come back for a few hours to tweak a few things----- the time spent on "repairing the situation has exceeded the original install---and any way you slice it, the "repairs "are dragging on for days.

I appreciate that Bam is trying to handle the situation in the way he feels is best. I have always felt he is a decent capable guy.

I believe my way would have been much more effective, though.

I am not a religous guy- but I do believe that I should treat my customers the way I would want to be treated. Bams customer has been boned by the Sub--and Bam is valiantly scrambling to salvage the situation.........
however- if a contractor insulted me the way YOU are suggesting- they would have a real problem on their hands.

A gift card??? REALLY? after THIS night mare??????????

Hey Bam- I do wish you the very best and I know you can not wait for this mess to be in the rear view mirror.

think positive,
stephen


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> EthanB said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to thank you but I have a feeling that you might have just made that up.:blink:[/QUOTe
> ...


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> jamestrd said:
> 
> 
> > Dr. Phi.....I mean Dr.James.... Thanks, I think you are on to something, perhaps besides tangible you might want to consider personal also?
> ...


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> MTN REMODEL LLC said:
> 
> 
> > Mountain.. Thanks for the thanks.. I was tossing and turning all nite over this shiz nit..
> ...


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I am meeting the HO tomorrow morning to get a final take on all issues.

How long is a fair amount of time to allow the sub to complete the repairs before I do it myself and back charge?

He has started a large new construction roofing project that I assume will take at least a week to complete.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I would call him up and tell him to get a guy or 2 there tomorrow. Otherwise a guy or 2 of your crew will be there and it will end badly for him.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

EthanB said:


> jamestrd said:
> 
> 
> > You know I was joking, right? I must have used the wrong smiley.
> ...


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I am meeting the HO tomorrow morning to get a final take on all issues.
> 
> How long is a fair amount of time to allow the sub to complete the repairs before I do it myself and back charge?
> 
> He has started a large new construction roofing project that I assume will take at least a week to complete.



I think 3 days is fair..gotta give him time to work it out..


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

You can't blame it on your subs. You hired him. You are responsible.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Stephen H said:


> Ethan,
> check your calendar. Remember it is MARCH and we are talking about a ROOF.
> 
> so Imagine it's March and I hire you.
> ...



Dude you are trippin..i feel sorry for your boy playing little league..

insurance covers what you just spoke of..the contractor and HO cover the rest.
HO hires on what criteria he sees fit..contractor does job..its botched..contractor fixes job..PERIOD
contractor performs or doesn't according to price structure,

that price structure dictates the rest of the performance or warranty.


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## Tony Robins (Mar 14, 2014)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I am meeting the HO tomorrow morning to get a final take on all issues.
> 
> How long is a fair amount of time to allow the sub to complete the repairs before I do it myself and back charge?
> 
> He has started a large new construction roofing project that I assume will take at least a week to complete.


The sub made a commitment to your project and he should see that it gets done before moving on to another job. If you two do have a good personal relationship (as I believe you have) then he should be prioritising this job above everything else, and that's without considering his professionalism... sorry, alleged professionalism. 
Anyway, I hope it all works out for you, but don’t let your personal feelings for him interfere with your professional decision.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

How did it pan out with homeowner and getting sub back there .


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## Catpaw (Jun 12, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Legally, do you have to pay a subcontractor if the terms of the agreement were not met by the subcontractor?


Legally?

Depends on who has the better paper trail. Start documenting.


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