# Bidding Jobs



## schlagee (Nov 6, 2015)

Need some advice....


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## schlagee (Nov 6, 2015)

I set this up wrong, anyways....
Starting my own masonry business. It's been in the family for generations. Unfortunately after my grandpa taught all his sons the trade, the sons were all assholes to their kids and we had to learn everything growing up from watching or learning ourselves. Which is fine...until you get into the bidding part of things. I'm on my own now , part time for 3 years, this year, my 4th, will be full time. I've got a formula for bidding everything with brick, block, and stone, but I get lost when it comes to bidding tuck pointing jobs. There's only a handful of Mason's here in central WI, and we all get plenty of work. I get majority of jobs I bid. But I always miss out on tuck pointing jobs! The only advice I got from Pa was " figure out what you need to get paid per day, then multiply that by how long it will take" ....Which makes sense, but I never get the jobs! Must be bidding too high to be safe ( figuring for issues) Is there a formula you have for pricing these jobs? Thanks in advance fellas.
Any help, info, or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Bull Trout (Dec 6, 2016)

cost + time + OH + P

not worth lowering your price if you will end up loosing $


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Some people specialise in pointing and get faster than the average trowel at it, so can be a bit cheaper and still make money. Most of the lads I know who do this were not that good on other work. (who wants to spend every day pointing)
Average prices round here would be for rake out and repoint 
£40 per sq metre bucket handle finish, £60 weather struck and cut, £300 proper Tuck pointing.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Can you compete with a full time tuckpointer & caulker, and WHY would you want to if you are a decent new work mason?

Do you have the (OWN) the teleboom man baskets that you need to compete in this area?, if not how can someone renting a 200.00$ a day machine compete with the guy that owns two free and clear?

Run a night shift and pay double rent?:clap:

You could hire a Master tuckpointer away from the "big boys" that is tired of running a grinder 20+ hours week to teach your squad the basic production techniques. Hiring bonus, Pay raise?

Not getting a job you can't make money is a GOOD thing...

If you really think the future of your business is repair work, maybe donate a couple of small-medium jobs to a local church/ Not for profit as a write off... to learn on.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I typically don’t Chase reprinting work, even though I’m decent at it. I price it how many days x amount I want per day plus some materials which is minimal.

If I perhaps want a specific repoint, it’s usually a lime resto job and I talk dust control and the lime mortar process. I never let them think it’s a production in and out type job. It needs to be done by someone with experience. 

Sell dust control, safety, talk about the psi of the old mortar and the psi of the mortar you will use. 

I always talk process with people , possible inconveniences, how I’ll address it, protect floors, ect.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Maybe as infill jobs when you aren't busy with "new"work?

The new Silica OSHA rules really add to the costs of tuck- pointing legally in the USA.

The wholesalers of products used and the manufacturers of them often have information to help their customers... many of the techniques apply generally...


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## schlagee (Nov 6, 2015)

There aren't any full time tuck pointing outfits around here. It just falls in with the regular masons. I'm small scale. Residential. A one man show. So I'm talking about old brick farm houses, planters, etc. Not huge buildings. 

Thanks for all the info fellas! It's appreciated.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

JBM said:


> I typically don’t Chase reprinting work, even though I’m decent at it. I price it how many days x amount I want per day plus some materials which is minimal.
> 
> If I perhaps want a specific repoint, it’s usually a lime resto job and I talk dust control and the lime mortar process. I never let them think it’s a production in and out type job. It needs to be done by someone with experience.
> 
> ...





:thumbsup::thumbsup:


In other words,sell the sizzle before you sell the steak.:thumbup:


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

fjn said:


> :thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> 
> In other words,sell the sizzle before you sell the steak.:thumbup:


Lol I could be a pretty darn good masonry salesman I believe. It’s my favorite part of the job!


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Bobby flay and company always talk about depth of flavor. Building layers. Selling a job is our first shot at showing people the layers of experience we have. When I was under 30 I was in and out of appointments, yup I can do that , it’ll take however long , and tell them the price. 

Now I take my time, comment on one thing you see you like, talk about kids, the weather, gotta spend a few minutes , at least a total of 10 talking about anything but masonry.

A sales guy used to tell me MAF, make a friend first, then talk business.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

JBM said:


> Lol I could be a pretty darn good masonry salesman I believe. It’s my favorite part of the job!





 You may have missed your calling. Trade in your trowel for an order pad.:clap:


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## schlagee (Nov 6, 2015)

JBM....thanks for the advice. You're spot on too.. I find myself trying to get in and out alot of times, But even in the last year, been taking a bit more time to talk to the potential customer . 
And one thing I have noticed more is that when I am more personable with them, rather than just talking shop, they seem to feel more comfortable, and it seems like alot of times, they don't even get another bid from a competitor. Like you said. Friend first, then business. Thanks again.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

fjn said:


> You may have missed your calling. Trade in your trowel for an order pad.:clap:


I need to find a middle aged guy who hates people and just wants to do masonry!


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

schlagee said:


> JBM....thanks for the advice. You're spot on too.. I find myself trying to get in and out alot of times, But even in the last year, been taking a bit more time to talk to the potential customer .
> And one thing I have noticed more is that when I am more personable with them, rather than just talking shop, they seem to feel more comfortable, and it seems like alot of times, they don't even get another bid from a competitor. Like you said. Friend first, then business. Thanks again.


When you take your time it says , I care about you.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Just make sure you and your customer Know the meter IS RUNNING while you are "bonding" and Building "trust"...

40 minutes yakking for a 4 hour patch job puts me into working for less then normal wages....

An hour with a school board member that just issued 40 million$ of new school bonds is an investment opportunity.


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## schlagee (Nov 6, 2015)

4th Gen.....
I know exactly what you're saying too. When I was a kid tending for my grandpa and later for my dad, I saw both sides. Grandpa would be courteous, but all business. Dad would talk a customers ear off and waste a good part of the day sometimes! We all are just built different I guess. I try to take a half to a full day, (depending on how many calls) to just take care of looking at jobs and meeting potential customers. I try to do it on Saturdays and bring my son so he can get involved as well. It's all got to get done, just have to find the time.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

schlagee said:


> There aren't any full time tuck pointing outfits around here. It just falls in with the regular masons. I'm small scale. Residential. A one man show. So I'm talking about old brick farm houses, planters, etc. Not huge buildings.
> 
> Thanks for all the info fellas! It's appreciated.




Around here it’s either tuckpointing and restoration work or mason contractors. Most bricklayers are horrible tuckpointers and most tuck pointers a horrible brick layers. 


The two tuck pointers that I have working for me I would never be able to compete with them as how fast they are. They can go 4 feet long on a bed joint with one swipe using a hawk and backfiller. We were doing a large tuck pointing job one time and Billy was getting more work done than me and another bricklayer combined, he is literally faster than 2 of us! 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Networking is a vital part of business, especially in medium to smaller markets where most of the players eventually know most of the other players, Spending with a lot of time with some one not likely to ever be a repeat customer, not so much.

Who you know and who "knows" you can get you jobs: What you know and do gets the jobs finished and paid for....

Treat everybody with respect, but you want to fish(spend time and money) where the "big""fish"$ are.

As with anything keep honest records and assign the costs to the actual Job that accrued them_as an employee, you need to be paid for your time, even if your company is "losing" money. As a business person you need real data on what your gabbing is costing the business.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

With stuff that I don't really enjoy (repointing, block work, stucco, most small repairs) I use the bid it high and let it fly approach.

If I get it, then we get to have steak dinner when the job is done, and if I don't. No big deal I can go pour concrete instead.

Honestly, I wasn't making any money using the going rate or competitive rate on anything, and thought about quitting a few times because of it. Price it at what you need to make a comfortable living, and if someone undercuts it, let them have it, they won't be your competition for too long.


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