# Why aren't we getting paid?



## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Have you considered sending lien law information with your second statement? Sometimes being reminded that not paying in a timely manner can wind up being more of a pain in the butt than doing with a few less DVD rentals this month.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Double-A said:


> Have you considered sending lien law information with your second statement? Sometimes being reminded that not paying in a timely manner can wind up being more of a pain in the butt than doing with a few less DVD rentals this month.


Liens are in the contract. No need to put them in a statement, IMO.

Instead of DVDs, maybe they both could give up the $9 triple-chocolate mocha lattes every morning.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Its not a matter of "have you passed this information on to your client", but more a matter of, "what have you done for me lately?"

What I'm getting at here, is a gentle reminder that non-payment has consequence beyond the simple non-payment. We've found that simply restating what should be known to all parties is sometimes all it takes to keep things civil and cordial.


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## SeamlessGutters (Mar 11, 2009)

The reason for not getting paid has almost nothing to do with the lack of credit or money. Usually a homeowner is not going to get work done unless they have the money for it. 

The reason for this trend is the growing sense of entitlement in the minds of people in this country. 

The people in this country are changing. It use to be you could do work for a hand shake and feel comfortable. That is because people had values and respect. Lately, there has been a group of people in America that believe they are OWED everything. This means, if they can get it free from the government, why pay? why work? 

This country use to embrace the entrepreneur, but now, he/she is a evil money hungry jerk who doesn't need our money because he or she is already rich and we are not as well off as him/her. That is the mentality that is going to destroy this country in my opinion. 

And lastly, Contractors no longer have the working capital they need to take on work, but at the same time, cannot turn it down. And the homeowners don't pay them so it trickles down right back to the homeowners. 

Recently I had a homeowner give me a check for $25 less then the state $600. When I asked why the check was for less, he said it was because he was going to refer me to a friend and that is worth that much. I just said Whatever and took it and left. What a joke. If his friend calls I am telling him to get ******.


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## Bergstrom (Mar 14, 2009)

480sparky said:


> But... what is the *real* reason we don't get paid? I'm not looking for excuses you've gotten from non-paying customers, I'm after the real reason they just don't feel like paying up. (I hope that made sense)
> 
> I have my own theories why we have to spend so much time and effort chasing down our money, but I'd like to hear more.


I think the real reason is that "Bad Credit" (AKA not paying bills) has lost the stigma it once held to the point it is now almost a virtue. Fewer and fewer people feel a heartfelt obligation to pay their debts and in some cases are pervertedly rewarded for it. :thumbdown


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## SeamlessGutters (Mar 11, 2009)

Hey Bergstrom, 

I still have your bit from when I put the gutters on your shed! 

(remember me? I live down the road) 

Hahah


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## CScalf (Dec 18, 2008)

Tiger said:


> Treble damages in Illinois are for NSF checks, not Stop Payment. There are also rules about the damages. I believe you have to give them 30 days to make good on the check.



It applies to stop payment checks as well, just finished up in court and got treble damages for a case where the customer pulled the stop payment thing.
Not sure about the 30 day thing, I know my lawyer said blah blah letter sent, blah blah, no response, blah blah, try to get service to them, tried 3 times, no response, published in paper, no show to court, blah blah, went to court proved the case to the judge, bam default judgment.


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## jimmys (May 1, 2009)

Recently I had a homeowner give me a check for $25 less then the state $600. When I asked why the check was for less, he said it was because he was going to refer me to a friend and that is worth that much. I just said Whatever and took it and left. What a joke. If his friend calls I am telling him to get ******.

Boy, unless you really needed that check I wouldn't take it. There's been times I would have, and the arguing is worth a lot more than $25, but having your butt burned like that rankles for a long time. The guy's got ME mad just thinking about it...
I might have left too, now that you mention it - sounds like a p***ing contest with a skunk.
Jim


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

jimmys said:


> Boy, unless you really needed that check I wouldn't take it. ..........Jim


I agree. I would have written "VOID" on the check and handed it back, stating there's nothing in our contract about a requirement to buy leads from the guy.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

I would take the $575, and continue to bill for the additional $25 each 15 days.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

dirt diggler said:


> I would take the $575, and continue to bill for the additional $25 each 15 days.


Sometimes, a sneaky customer will know that if they write "Paid in full" on the memo line of the check and you cash/deposit it, by law you are then paid in full.


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## Bluepenguin (Apr 3, 2008)

outlaw said:


> I think that some people believe that it is too much trouble for you to pursue. What it cost you to pursue is sometimes less than what they owe.
> 
> 
> > I completely agree with this. But we're clamping down this year and going after all delinquents. I think it's a huge hassle to go through court for less than $1000, but a registered letter and warning that a collection agency will be forthcoming may just do the trick...


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## wireless (Nov 2, 2006)

480sparky said:


> Sometimes, a sneaky customer will know that if they write "Paid in full" on the memo line of the check and you cash/deposit it, by law you are then paid in full.


Cross it out and write partial payment!


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## insane (May 27, 2009)

The balls people have amases me. If you live up to your end of the agreement, the customer needs to live up to theirs, period. 
Presently I have a customer who is a gc, been doing his work for 20 years. Long story short, shorted us $ 3100 on final payment for a 130,000 job.
He has never played this game in 20 years. Basically he forget to bring a change to the owners attention, and said it was our fault for not making him sign a change order and would not go back to home owner for the money. Settled for $2500. That was over a month ago and still waiting for the money. This has been
going on since january. I no longer have patience for this crap.

Tim


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

wireless said:


> Cross it out and write partial payment!


and have them sign next to it!!


great tip Sparky --- I didn't know that. Now that I think about it, most clients I've ever had a problem with actually DO write that


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

wireless said:


> Cross it out and write partial payment!





dirt diggler said:


> and have them sign next to it!!


They must initial the change. Otherwise, you are changing a financial document without consent. That may constitute fraud.


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## insane (May 27, 2009)

You know, I think its a lack of respect from the customer. Nothing p#@%es me off more.
Hey that felt pretty good!!!!

Tim :furious:


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

CScalf said:


> It applies to stop payment checks as well, just finished up in court and got treble damages for a case where the customer pulled the stop payment thing.
> Not sure about the 30 day thing, I know my lawyer said blah blah letter sent, blah blah, no response, blah blah, try to get service to them, tried 3 times, no response, published in paper, no show to court, blah blah, went to court proved the case to the judge, bam default judgment.


Good to know! What did you publish in the paper?

In 25 years I've only had one NSF check. When I called them it turned into a negotiation for less payment, like maybe the check bounced because they weren't happy with the work? 

I had a very nice talk with the right person at my bank. She suggested I redeposit it near the end of the month when they might have more money in the account. She even called to see if it would clear. I recall getting a call from the deadbeat because when my check cleared some other checks bounced & they were on their way to Vegas. Now how could someone have money for Vegas but not their contractors?


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

480sparky said:


> Sometimes, a sneaky customer will know that if they write "Paid in full" on the memo line of the check and you cash/deposit it, by law you are then paid in full.


I think you're wrong in most cases. What is written in the memo line of a check does not alter the original contract. Check with your lawyer. Mine says, "Balderdash!"

I ain't no lawyer, this ain't legal advice. A check is not a contract, its a financial instrument by which funds may be conveyed. Does writing "Paid in full" on a dollar bill change the terms of the contract?

The most that can happen is when the amount owed is in dispute. Payment schedules and signed change orders make it quite difficult to say that the actual amount due is in dispute.


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Double-A said:


> I think you're wrong in most cases.* What is written in the memo line of a check does not alter the original contract. *Check with your lawyer. Mine says, "Balderdash!"


I believe it does not change the wording and payment schedule of the contract; however, when a judge sees 'paid in full", that could mean nothing else but just that--bill is satisfied. Could be wrong, but I learned that on 'People's Court':shutup:


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*It is extorion!*



Darwin said:


> I believe it does not change the wording and payment schedule of the contract; however, when a judge sees 'paid in full", that could mean nothing else but just that--bill is satisfied. Could be wrong, but I learned that on 'People's Court':shutup:


I think writing 'Paid In Full' on the check when the job is not paid in full could be considered extortion. When a customer writes a statement on a check that you don't like cross it out, or write a counter-statement on the check. I don't think a judge would make a decision in favor of the customer.

Why we are not collecting money from our customers? This is my favorite saying:

"The wheel that squeaks loudest gets greased first."


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

pcplumber said:


> I think writing 'Paid In Full' on the check when the job is not paid in full could be considered extortion. When a customer writes a statement on a check that you don't like cross it out, or write a counter-statement on the check. I don't think a judge would make a decision in favor of the customer.
> 
> Why we are not collecting money from our customers? This is my favorite saying:
> 
> "The wheel that squeaks loudest gets greased first."


Its up to you if you accept it and cash it. Then it becomes 'paid in full'.


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## SeamlessGutters (Mar 11, 2009)

Yeah, The guy was drunk, annoying, and honestly, I really wanted to knock him out. But being the owner I really just cant. 

$25 dallors. Oh well, I got a big copper job next door that he has nothing to do with. I think counting the money as a drive by his ****ty ass little house will be satisfaction enough. 

My biggest problem is small contractors. My big generals are picking up so I basically called them all today and told them they have 1 week or I am handing it all over to my collections agent. You should have heard them crying and whinning. And this is after I have to listen to about how much money they make all year. They don't have the working capital to do what there trying to do and treat us subs like there little credit cards. Its a Freaking joke. I am done working for these jokesters.


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## Mitch M (Dec 4, 2006)

As I was looking through the threads I saw this and I read it as "Why aren't we getting laid?" I then started having all kinds of thoughts like headaches, kids in the next room, parents home, .... And then I said wait a minute that cannot be right. I went back and saw that it was paid not laid.

Well so much for that thread.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Mitch M said:


> As I was looking through the threads I saw this and I read it as "Why aren't we getting laid?" I then started having all kinds of thoughts like headaches, kids in the next room, parents home, .... And then I said wait a minute that cannot be right. I went back and saw that it was paid not laid.
> 
> Well so much for that thread.


Well, there's that problem too.







But that's a whole other thread!


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## SeamlessGutters (Mar 11, 2009)

So here comes round two. 

I have this big contractor who I know as a ton of work, lots of salemen... Anyway, He has a job that some other gutter guy flaked on..Big Job... 450+ feet. So i tell him I will run out and check it out. I tell him the price he says that sounds about right, when can you do it. I told him that I can get it done tommorrow I just need a signed work order sent over. He was like, well I will see if I can get one over but i might not be able too. 

I get home and guess what? No work order. 

My honest hunch on this company is that they are completly legit but I have a feeling that they are tight on cash. I think he isnt sending something over beucase he is plannign on putting off payment for a while. Why is there gutter guy flaking out? Anyway, I decided that tommorrow morning before heading out I am going to go over there (on the way to the project) and have him sign off. At least if he won't sign I am saving myself a ton of trouble. Chances are everything will go well! 

These are the miserable precations we have to take right now for a little job!


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## CScalf (Dec 18, 2008)

Tiger said:


> Good to know! What did you publish in the paper?
> 
> In 25 years I've only had one NSF check. When I called them it turned into a negotiation for less payment, like maybe the check bounced because they weren't happy with the work?
> 
> I had a very nice talk with the right person at my bank. She suggested I redeposit it near the end of the month when they might have more money in the account. She even called to see if it would clear. I recall getting a call from the deadbeat because when my check cleared some other checks bounced & they were on their way to Vegas. Now how could someone have money for Vegas but not their contractors?


I believe it was just a summons to court. Stating the when who and why. I never actually read it, my lawyer handles all that stuff for me.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I try to keep it simple - I either get a deposit, or a cheque when the job starts, I inform the HO up front that I don't finance jobs, and a lesson learned the hard way - I never let anyone get into me for more money than I am willing to loose. ( like a weeks' pay )


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## mgimbrere (Jun 9, 2009)

*getting paid*

I hate to loose trust in people, but when it comes to billing I have had to loose some of my idealism. I bought a laptop, a printer, and an inverter and I keep them in my truck. Small jobs get invoiced immediately, all larger jobs have a payment schedule as part of my contract. ALL jobs over $1,000.00 get contracted. The computer and printer were paid off with the first few "extras" that I was able to document and collect for right on the jobsite.
In reality though it is probably my ex-army ranger partner who intimidates people the most!


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

SeamlessGutters said:


> So here comes round two.
> 
> I have this big contractor who I know as a ton of work, lots of salemen... Anyway, He has a job that some other gutter guy flaked on..Big Job... 450+ feet. So i tell him I will run out and check it out. I tell him the price he says that sounds about right, when can you do it. I told him that I can get it done tommorrow I just need a signed work order sent over. He was like, well I will see if I can get one over but i might not be able too.
> 
> ...


He wants you to install 450+ feet but he might not be able to fill out a work order. That looks promising. Maybe he'll tell you something like "Trust me, you'll get paid".


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