# 2nd Flr DECK over living space



## royceGC (Jan 8, 2010)

Hi to all! New member here...
I need to build a 2nd story deck in NY over an existing living space as part of a new 2nd Story addition to the house.
I would have preferred to use a product like Deckrite but the home owner wants a plank deck.

It is a 1 story house with a covered porch attached which has been converted to Living Space...appr. 8' x 12'
The house will receive a 2nd story with a new 2x12 floor joist system.
The covered porch space will have the deck above off the Master Bedroom.
I am looking for advice on how to construct the 2nd floor deck with a typical deck floor (5/4 x 6 Pressure Treated or Trex), allow water to drain off, and remain watertight to the living space below...within the 2x12 floor joist height.
ANy help is appreciated and thanks in advance.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

It's not going to happen within the space you mentioned. For a plank look over a habitable area do a sealed deck top with the planks set on top.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

"PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR PROFILE, AND CONTINUE TO THE INTRO PAGE AND TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOURSELF AND YOUR PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE, THANKYOU AND WELCOME TO CT, GMOD

PS, Why not have the architect draw it with the second floor plans?


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## royceGC (Jan 8, 2010)

The architect who drew the plans is not well versed in these matters...nor am I. I have done a lot (a very relative term) but I have not done a 2nd Floor deck over living space in my admittedly short career as a GC. 
In defense of the architect (as well as myself) one can go a very long time in this business without coming into contact with certain aspects of the building trade. I guess it depends on the path your business takes, which is not always in your control.
There is no shame is saying that you do not know something...but there is in pretending to know everything. I definitely do not know everything and learn new things daily. 
I thought that I would gather new insight into this issue by coming here and drawing upon the experience of others who have gone before me. And even here I expect to receive a variety of opinions and options on this matter.
So, I was headed in the direction RIO described, but I had questions regarding which deck surface to put down and how to attach the sleepers to that surface.
I was thinking:
Tapered 2x8 ceiling beam over the first floor (2" taper over 9')
3/4" ply sheathing
Watertight membrane
Sleepers tapered in reverse 
Decking

My issues are:
Adhering the sleepers to the watertight membrane
Facia and Rim Joist that will allow drainage out from in between the sleepers
Post attachment for the railing

Any insight into these techniques would be greatly appreciated. Yes, I know that this the architect's job, but he doesn't really know and I'm not about to walk away from a job because of it. The better path, I believe, is to get educated before I sign the contract.
Thanks again for any help.


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## Aframe (Mar 24, 2008)

Royce, I think you are headed in the right direction. 
How is the deck portion set up on the house? 3 sides open? Let the sleepers float on the membrane. Run the rail posts through to the roof framing or you may be able to embed some anchor points into the membrane roof then tie into them with the deck frame. Keeping some space at the bottom of the ribbon/rim joists will allow for water flow.

The exact details will need to be worked out to fit your job/codes. Go look at other similar projects and you should be able to piece together the details you need.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I have worked on many homes with waterproof decks, some over living space and some to cover other decks. The most popular system is a fiberglass mat/resin system. The other system I am somewhat familiar with is a poly urethane/urea sprayed on system. Both have been done as a walkable surface and are available in a rainbow of colors. Any sleeper type deck system should not be attached permanently, so that maintanance and repairs can be performed easily. The systems I mentioned should be coated periodically to keep the UV protection intact. I have been aware of fiberglass decks for over 20 years and poly decks for at least 5 or 6.


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## royceGC (Jan 8, 2010)

Loneframer...very impressive. Oh how I wish this guy would let me do a membrane/walkable surface. But after I try 2 or 3 times to change a customers mind and they still won't budge, I quiclkly give up to keep the customer.
Aframe, I think you got me even closer...If if float the sleepers, I can hold them down with a top-side teko at the house/thin end of the taper, and with strapping or tekos at the outer edge. I still may need a hold-down at the center or there may be bounce. I suppose I could align the sleepers with the ceiling jopists below and run a strap from one up to the other. i would have to coordinate that with the membrane installer.
Sorry....thinking out loud.
If I leave space at the bottom of the rim joist for drainage, I could run a screen strip to let water out and keep anything from entering. It would have to be decorative.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Here is the way to go, construct the system as if it will be a fibreglass roof system, Forget ripping sleepers, rip the actual 2x12 joists in the deck area and teco to a ledger, decide which way you want the water to run, i am picturing a 2 sided open deck area. Set your posts through the deck and sheath with 3/4'' cdx. Next make appointment with kevin from LI Fibreglass, the morning he is scheduled, go over surface with second layer of 3/4'' marine plywood, this will ensure a clean surface for him to work with. Let him glass it to finish surface. Now you are water tight, next lay out 2x2 sleepers directly on top of glass surface, apply 2 layers of I&W shield to the bottom of the rips, this will cushion the surface between the wood and the glass. Run your evergrain or whatever on top of your sleepers with 1-5/8'' screws. This is the only way i would go, your customer has a traditional deck with the dependability of GLASS underneath... NOTE, notch out the bottom 4'' of the posts as they come through the deck surface. This relief will allow the glass to come up, wrap around the post, and remain flush with the 4x4 surface, now when you drop a post sleeve over the 4x4 it will not bind at the bottom. GMOD.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

This is a close up of the fibreglass coming up the wall and over a diversion curb, there is no neater way i know of to treat a deck above living space detail. GMOD


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

Gene
How many layers and what fabric are you using for the glass work also what type of resin, a polyester, vinylester of epoxy?


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

naptown CR said:


> Gene
> How many layers and what fabric are you using for the glass work also what type of resin, a polyester, vinylester of epoxy?


 
Nap, i will get brands for you from my installer. The fabric is reg looking glass mesh. As far as # of coatings, first trip is base coat with fabric set, second coat is final, If deck will be glass as finished surface, color is added to resin at the final coat. Most cases i like to tile over glass, so instead of adding color we add a sand to resin, this gives the deck teeth to accept thinset and tile , GMOD.


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## royceGC (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks, Gene.
What is holding the sleepers/decking down against lift, bowing, warping?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

ive seen a few of those,some installers want to install the underlayment themselves

funny but most of these companies are from coastal areas,may be cause of the boatyards there


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

royceGC said:


> Thanks, Gene.
> What is holding the sleepers/decking down against lift, bowing, warping?


Just cull out the bad pieces, if 2x2 is going to go, it will usually let you know pretty quick, also the weight of composites and even reg 5/4 decking will hold the system down, depending on the site conditions you may need to pull the decking up in the future for cleaning so consider this when designing the system, also finish off the edges with decking mat rips to hide the 2x2 buildup, Good luck i am a big fan of these type of built in 2nd floor decks, GMOD


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

tomstruble said:


> ive seen a few of those,some installers want to install the underlayment themselves
> 
> funny but most of these companies are from coastal areas,may be cause of the boatyards there


 The products required to do these types of decks are more readily available in areas prone to heavy boating. In some areas, companies that apply the polyurethane/urea product may be easier to locate. The poly product stays flexible whereas the fiberglass is not. In some cases of moisture problems due to poor ventilation, the fiberglass will fail due to expansion of the substrate. I've seen this on some rooftop decks where airflow is limited. The mat will split along one or more seams. I haven't seen this issue with the poly applications.


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