# Sale Value of a business- experienced answers only please......



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

I know that there are many ways of figuring the sale value of a business, but I am looking more specifically for a formula to get a basic sale value of my remodeling business. 

I have kept good records for the past year, so I have an Income statement, I can make fairly accurate business plans, as well as look aheads. I can write up a balance sheet and find my net worth, but I am looking specifically for a generally accepted formula for the sale value.

I am not looking to sell, but rather offer a partnership to someone. In my mind, there are 2 basic fair ways to do this. The first way being they pay me 1/2 the sale value of my business, and enter as full partner, working equally and work up over time to drawing an equal salary as thier contributions become more profitable.

The other way I was thinking of offering is if they made an investment directly in the business equal to my current sale value- therefore doubling the value of the business, and expanding the business substantially. Then enter as a full partner, again working equally, and working up to drawing an equal salary.

The first one puts cash in MY pocket now, but doesn't neccesarily benefit the business financially in an immediate fashion. I don't need the money personally, that isn't why I am considering this. 

The second way, probably with some alterations, and some negotiations of terms- is what I would prefer to offer because I would like to grow the business faster and I don't do debt.

Any good advice or feedback from people with serious business experience is greatly appreciated.


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## SpecBid (Feb 24, 2012)

Why would someone pay full value for something, to only own half of it ? And STILL need to work their way to equal status. The only way I would do a deal like that is if I own 100% of the business, and hire you as an employee to help run it. Furthermore, if you're not in a situation where money is a factor, why take on a partner at all ? That opens the doors for unwanted stress. Maybe take on an investor, to get some growth capital, and work out an equity stake. Look for ways to diversify your business in other areas of the industry, that would interest an investor. That way, you retain autonomy, and have the money needed to grow, while still calling all the shots.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> I am not looking to sell, but rather offer a partnership to someone. In my mind, there are 2 basic fair ways to do this. The first way being they pay me 1/2 the sale value of my business, and enter as full partner, working equally and work up over time to drawing an equal salary as thier contributions become more profitable.
> 
> The other way I was thinking of offering is if they made an investment directly in the business equal to my current sale value- therefore doubling the value of the business, and expanding the business substantially. Then enter as a full partner, again working equally, and working up to drawing an equal salary.
> 
> ...



First question is why are you interested in offering a partnership to someone? Let me tell you from personal experience, those don't work, even if it is a close family member.

Your first idea makes more sense (not much) than the second one. Why would I pay you half of what you value the company at if I do not draw an equal salary immediately?

The second part - What do you think your current sale value is worth? As mentioned above. Why would I pay you 100k for a business you value (would sell for) at 100k if I only get 50% of the business? That doesn't make sense. It would make sense for someone just to buy out for that price and take over completely.

I think the real reason you are thinking of this is for the money. What you need is an investor or a loan.

Let's say I was an investor. Why would I want to invest in YOUR business. What do you have to offer me? If I give you the 100k you want to "expand" what are you going to do with it? At your current yearly company profit level, how long would it take me to see that money back?

Sort of like the show the Shark Tank. Show me how much money you profit a year, then I will figure out how much money I should offer you and what percentage of the company I should own.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

It's real simple. If you were to die what's your company worth?

If you owned a factory it would stay running, in construction the company normally dies.


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

I have experience here. I started a business with my best fiend out of college. At first it was fine but then problems started to arise quickly. We decided that it wouldn't work long term and I allowed him to buy me out. Because we were great friends we were able to salvage the friendship. Otherwise we would have went our separate ways for good.

As others have said above, if its capital you seek to grow, then look for an investor. I just don't believe in partnerships.


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## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

I have sold a contracting business and have direct experience with this. Your best bet is to get an outside third party appraise the value of your business. An accountant can do this or a business broker.

In the case of my business a business broker examined my past three years of financial statements and determined the value of my former company.

It is hard to sell this type of business as typically the owner is so actively involved in the success that as Oconomowoc points out if the owner dies so does the business. It doesn't have to be this way and someday I am going to write a book about how to sell your contracting business/succession planning. There are a few very workable solutions than simply hanging up the tool belt. However, they take planning well before you plan on retiring or selling.


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## CSB (Nov 17, 2007)

There are a ton of different ways to perform a business valuation and there's no exactly science to it. Take your average sales for the past three years and divide it by three, or use net multiplier method, or ???

Your best bet is to gather up your finances and take it to a professional who has experience in small construction business valuation.


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## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

CSB said:


> There are a ton of different ways to perform a business valuation and there's no exactly science to it. Take your average sales for the past three years and divide it by three, or use net multiplier method, or ???
> 
> Your best bet is to gather up your finances and take it to a professional who has experience in small construction business valuation.


Well said. There is no exact science to this.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

I can tell you my Dad has bought and sold numerous manufacturing companies and the KEY, absolute KEY is to have a business where everything is done per a system. Systems are recordable, you can verify everything and show results on paper. That is where the value is..

If profit is the result of uncle Louie telling you how to create value then it has no system. If profit can be shown in a manual or procedure and it's documented there's value in that. The valuation of a business is easy as pie.

People who buy and sell companies understand this. The goal is to create systems.

Systems replace people. It takes the value away from one man who holds all the cards.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

There are business valuation analysts that can be hired to calculate the number for you. I know my accountant has a partner that specializes in that area. Then you have a certified third party number.

If I were to buy half of a company I would expect to receive half of the profits. Sure, the partner's salary should be commensurate with their contribution but the profits should be proportional to investment.


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Looks like you are kitchen remodeler.
Next step is open a KITCHEN AND BATH showroom and expand the customer base. Investor or silent partner would work better rather than 50% partnership IMHO.
To run a showroom adds more stress due the overhead, some micro management etc.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

carolinahandyma said:


> .......
> In the case of my business a business broker examined my past three years of financial statements and determined the value of my former company.


You would need at least the 3 years to show anybody
(as stated above) and in those 3 years the profit
would need to be going North in most of those 3 years
and especially in the last year.

IMO, if you are looking for a faster mode to acquire 
funding for expansion, etc I would look at incorporating.
This way you can distribute shares and retain control,
50/50 partnerships are the worst way to try to do it.

Lending institutions are/will require you put up equity,
I have yet to see a full partnership work out (except
for Steve Jobs, Wozniack, etc).

There are strict rules for getting VC and Angel
Investor money these days and most likely a 
qualified one would want a large percentage, but
even then you really have to prove future
profitability.

I incorporated a venture, things can happen pretty
quick and you can sell percentages of interest in
small chunks at $2K, $4K, $6K, or more very easily.

Plus, in case things go to pot (no play on the State 
of Washington), you and your personal assets are 
protected.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

SpecBid said:


> Why would someone pay full value for something, to only own half of it ? And STILL need to work their way to equal status. The only way I would do a deal like that is if I own 100% of the business, and hire you as an employee to help run it. Furthermore, if you're not in a situation where money is a factor, why take on a partner at all ? That opens the doors for unwanted stress. Maybe take on an investor, to get some growth capital, and work out an equity stake. Look for ways to diversify your business in other areas of the industry, that would interest an investor. That way, you retain autonomy, and have the money needed to grow, while still calling all the shots.


I specifically asked for experienced advice because of answers like this. Please re read the post, maybe you will get it, but I will explain.

First it may clarify things a bit to reveal that it is my brother to whom I am considering making this offer.

If he invested 100% of the value then we would both have equal portions invested. $x + $x equals $2x. I already have my portion (x) so he invests an equal amount (that would be x again.....in case you aren't following) and we would then both own equal portions of 2x (a business worth twice what it is now)

When I say invest in the company, I don't mean pay me and I pocket the money. I have worked long and hard to make this what it is. In the 50% option, I would pocket the cash.

There is a difference between profit and salary. If you don't know that, you have no clue about business. While we may both have equal investment we would not have an equal contribution to the continued profitability of the company. So while we would both have equal rights to the assets and profit, his salary would be equal to his contribution, as would mine.

An invester is going to want a % without doing any of the work, and yes, they would want a say in how the business is ran. You say you noticed its not about money.......... Why the hell would I want an investor?

I am considering making this offer because he currently works for me, but he needs to make more $ if I want to keep him on my crew. He can get jobs elsewhere that pay 2 to 3 times as much as I can afford to pay him.

If he where to make an investment in the company, we could expand, and he could make a lot more.

Once again, I don't need the money, this not simply a scheme to raise profits.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BradingCon said:


> I have experience here. I started a business with my best fiend out of college. At first it was fine but then problems started to arise quickly. We decided that it wouldn't work long term and I allowed him to buy me out. Because we were great friends we were able to salvage the friendship. Otherwise we would have went our separate ways for good.
> 
> As others have said above, if its capital you seek to grow, then look for an investor. I just don't believe in partnerships.


How did you decide how much it was worth in order to sell your half?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

It more or less sounds like you need to raise your prices so you can pay your brother more if that's what this is about. It makes no sense to make him a partner just so he can make more money.

Trust me, partnerships don't work, especially with brothers.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

EthanB said:


> There are business valuation analysts that can be hired to calculate the number for you. I know my accountant has a partner that specializes in that area. Then you have a certified third party number.
> 
> If I were to buy half of a company I would expect to receive half of the profits. Sure, the partner's salary should be commensurate with their contribution but the profits should be proportional to investment.


Thanks for the advice. Definetly sounds like ishould get an outside appraiser.

Atleast someone here knows the difference between profit and salary.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> It more or less sounds like you need to raise your prices so you can pay your brother more if that's what this is about. It makes no sense to make him a partner just so he can make more money.
> 
> Trust me, partnerships don't work, especially with brothers.


You don't know how much this guy can make elsewhere. I can't raise prices that high unless we have a little more to offer.

He travels as an industrial welder and pulls 7 12's plus per diem and double overtime at 
$30 an hour or more. You do the math.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> You don't know how much this guy can make elsewhere.


Okay, so then you're willing to reduce your income by half?


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Okay, so then you're willing to reduce your income by half?


Sorry, I edited while u where posting. No, I am not willing to reduce my income, that why we would have to expand to keep him on and making the $ he needs.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> Sorry, I edited while u where posting. No, I am not willing to reduce my income, that why we would have to expand to keep him on and making the $ he needs.


I understand but what makes you think that by him just injecting cash and becoming a partner that you'll be twice as busy?

Do you currently have enough work to keep multiple crews busy? What will be his role in the company compared to yours? If he likes the money he is making, why is he switching jobs? Does he have the experience in the trade to make $30 an hour.

I'm not trying to be a pain but I've been there with a brother as a partner.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> Thanks for the advice. Definetly sounds like ishould get an outside appraiser.
> 
> Atleast someone here knows the difference between profit and salary.


That really is the only way to do it, it would remove
any doubt down the road in either of your minds if
one or the other thought they ripped themselves off
in the long run.

There are business appraisers that specialize in 
valuation and I'm pretty sure they're reasonably priced.
A business valuation company can also (or at least
should be able to), provide and set up all the legalities, 
docs, etc.

It really would have been a bit more informative if in
the original post you mentioned the investor was/is
your brother. Me personally wouldn't want my brother
anywhere within 10' of my operations, but maybe you 
have a different relationship.

Brings to mind the day way back hearing this guy 
yelling at the shop next to ours "someone call the 
police my brother's stealing my boat"
While his brother was hooking his boat up to his own 
truck and yelling back at him "it's 1/2 mine F' head".

Wasn't about to get in the middle of that cat fight.

:cool2:


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> .........
> I'm not trying to be a pain but I've been there with a brother as a partner.


ewwww....you're going to make me have bad dreams.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I understand but what makes you think that by him just injecting cash and becoming a partner that you'll be twice as busy?
> 
> Do you currently have enough work to keep multiple crews busy? What will be his role in the company compared to yours? If he likes the money he is making, why is he switching jobs? Does he have the experience in the trade to make $30 an hour.
> 
> I'm not trying to be a pain but I've been there with a brother as a partner.


It's not the cash, its what we would spend it on. More equipment to handle more employees, more marketing....... I am still simply toying with the idea, so I haven't worked out the fine details, and I haven't even talked to him about this yet. 

I need more info to make the decision to even open the conversation, so here I am.

My thoughts is after I train him to do what I do onsite, I will do more of the business side as well as continue hands on until I am too busy with the rest, anything past that is speculation at this point.

He can do journean level work, once I communicate my ideas to him, he can ussually make it happen. I am more design and number concious, he is more nose to the grindstone.

He likes the money, but not the travel of his current work.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> I specifically asked for experienced advice because of answers like this. Please re read the post, maybe you will get it, but I will explain.


A little less attitude in your remarks will probably get you better responses in general. The answer he gave was appropriate to the question so not sure why you dumped on him.





> First it may clarify things a bit to reveal that it is my brother to whom I am considering making this offer.......
> 
> I am considering making this offer because he currently works for me, but he needs to make more $ if I want to keep him on my crew. He can get jobs elsewhere that pay 2 to 3 times as much as I can afford to pay him.
> 
> ...


Several questions that come to mind that will help shed more light and allow for better help to you......

1) How is taking your brother on as a partner (who already works for you) going to make any more potential expansion possible? Is he not contributing all he presently can skill-wise to grow the business? If he isn't, why not? If he is, what difference will his money make?

2) If you can't now afford to pay him what he's worth, your statement "that it's not about the money", isn't really true. Either you need the money or you don't. Which is it?

3)How is he going to come up with money to invest? Is he independently wealthy?

4) If he can go elsewhere and make 2-3 times more money, why doesn't he? 

5) What do YOU bring to the business benefit-wise that HE values that he can't get by working elsewhere? Why would he want to be in a partnership with you?




As was mentioned above, (and I like lots of others here, have previous experience with partners and family members in business) encourage you NOT to do it. It RARELY works out! 

Everyone thinks they will be the exception to the rule.......

Almost everyone finds out that they are not!

Edited: sorry, some of the things above were answered while I was posting.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

svronthmve said:


> A little less attitude in your remarks will probably get you better responses in general. The answer he gave was appropriate to the question so not sure why you dumped on him.
> 
> Several questions that come to mind that will help shed more light and allow for better help to you......
> 
> ...


That guys answer was pretty arrogant, ignorant, and overall not what I was asking. Sorry if he's your buddy.

My brother has the money or atleast a good portion of what he would need to invest.

I think I answered the rest of this probably while you were typing.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

So no one has had or knows of successful business partnerships? 

How many companies are called xname bros or xname and sons, Or xname and yname company.

Idk if any of this is even gonna happen, just doing a theoretical analysis for now.

How to put a $ number on my business was the question.

Get an outside evaluation from a professional is my answer.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I guess I don't get it. You're looking at doing all this before you even have enough work lined up.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I guess I don't get it. You're looking at doing all this before you even have enough work lined up.


I have about 6 months of work lined up as we speak. Where did you get the idea I don't have work lined up?

And again, if we get more equipment, we can market more, and we can hire more employees and grow as we need. That's where the increased revenue would come from in order to pay two owner saleries.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> So no one has had or knows of successful business partnerships?
> 
> How many companies are called xname bros or xname and sons, Or xname and yname company.
> 
> ...


An outside appraiser absolutely ridiculous unless you are a large company. This is construction not AT&T offering an extra million shares. Any halfway decent accountant with experience could tell you in minutes what to do.

As far as partnerships working? Hell yeah, most big companies are partnerships in fact partnerships are almost required for successful growth. But two things about this are unique, first is in construction partnerships are rare. What's the point of a partnership in a little company. 

Second, construction people aren't exactly executive types where you often find partnerships. 

Partnerships are often best served by companies who bring in people who are seriously valuable to growth and refuse to work for a paycheck. Great people want skin in the game or they go elsewhere. 

Does your partner bring value that's hard to come by?


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> An outside appraiser absolutely ridiculous unless you are a large company. This is construction not AT&T offering an extra million shares. Any halfway decent accountant with experience could tell you in minutes what to do.
> 
> As far as partnerships working? Hell yeah, most big companies are partnerships in fact partnerships are almost required for successful growth. But two things about this are unique, first is in construction partnerships are rare. What's the point of a partnership in a little company.
> 
> ...


I know there are several ways to evaluate the sale value, and
I know there are formulas using numbers from the balance sheet and income statement, just don't remember what they are or wich one is relevent to a service type company.

My brother and I just jive like no other when we work together. Hows that saying go? The total is greater than the sum of the parts........

And he will go elsewhere if he can't make more money. That not a threat he has made, its just a fact of life.

He is only helping me now cuz he us between jobs and wants to stay home for the holidays before he hits the road again........... And I need the help. He doesn't need this as a j.o.b.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

ryanshull said:


> So no one has had or knows of successful business partnerships?



Not over a long term and certainly not with out the 'Systems'-two way understand and communication, Occonomwoc speaks of. He speaks the truth.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

I guess to make it clear, I WANT to make this offer, I don't NEED a partner. I am turning a profit and growing at a slow but steady pace as is.

What I am saying is he and I work off eachothers strengths.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Go to the dog pound.

Adopt one of the critters you fall in love with...:thumbsup:

Bar none the BEST partner you will ever have....:thumbup::thumbsup:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Would it make more sense for him to become an employee for let's say $20 a hour? Otherwise how long will it take for him to profit on his 100k investment?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Mind if I ask how many employees you currently have?


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> Mind if I ask how many employees you currently have?


I have gone through a few here and there, but 2 is kind of a standing number. One journeyman level and one apprentice. The phone is currently ringing off the hook, and I have had to let several jobs get away when they aren't willing to wait. I don't have enough equipment yet to handle many more than that. 

I hire several day workers when it comes to demo.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Would it make more sense for him to become an employee for let's say $20 a hour? Otherwise how long will it take for him to profit on his 100k investment?


I don't know if it would even be 100k........ I really have no.idea what the investment would be....... Still working on figuring that one out.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Maybe net worth would be the number to use, or at least start from, but I have worked my ass off to build a name, contacts, systems that work....etc etc. I have paid my dues and gone hungry (not literally) when I lost money or had to make big purchases.

I would like to think that is all worth more than a little shop full of tools and a pickup truck.

I invested in tools, but if he does this, he would be investing in a fairly well established business.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

I know you probably don't care but the company is only worth whatever the tools and equipment will bring on auction day. Companies your size are a dime a dozen. It only has value to you. Asking your brother to purchase blue sky just seems wrong.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

donerightwyo said:


> I know you probably don't care but the company is only worth whatever the tools and equipment will bring on auction day. Companies your size are a dime a dozen. It only has value to you. Asking your brother to purchase blue sky just seems wrong.


Believe it or not that is helpful information, and is taken well into account.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> You have it backwards here. I don't have a need to expand now. I am happy with what it is and the pace at which I am growing. I only need more employees and equipment if he is going to stick around and take on a leadership role and a owner salary. I don't need him to get more employees, I need more employees to have him.
> 
> Your point of view is very selfish, I think RhYs why you can't wrap your mind around this concept.
> 
> Sorry if this sounds rude, but you are confused because you aren't thinking out what I am saying. Re read my posts I have written all this at least once.


Oh lord, I could've sworn I read posts where you were turning down work because you dont have the equipment! You don't have the equipment because you don't have the money because you don't have the equipment.

Until now you've never said you are happy with where you are. You said the opposite.

What is your TRUE reason for wanting to work with him then?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Or...

Charge him 1/2 the assets + 6 months pay. Put the money in the account and that will pay until the transition of the new company dynamic takes shape. Now you have a great partner and the funds to float it.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Oh lord, I could've sworn I read posts where you were turning down work because you dont have the equipment! You don't have the equipment because you don't have the money because you don't have the equipment.
> 
> Until now you've never said you are happy with where you are. You said the opposite.
> 
> What is your TRUE reason for wanting to work with him then?


He doesn't need a reason. He wants what he wants. Thats up to him


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

svronthmve said:


> Just to clear it up, I have no personal knowledge of the guy I quoted.
> 
> And in my opinion, you're the only one on this thread who's coming across as arrogant and condescending in replies. You might want to make note of that.
> 
> There's a lot of your statements that don't jive with each other. My personal opinion is that people have been very patient in offering you their thoughts. You've poo-poo'd ALMOST everyone here who's given you credible & experienced advice. You obviously have your mind made up. Apparently you just came here to validate your own conclusions.


Maybe I made the question too complicated. I am simply seeking a way to fairly offer an investment that would make him full partner. I am not sure what doesn't jive.

Yes, I have my mind made up to extend the offer, that is appearant. What I am looking for is a fair way to do that.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> Finally....lol


I am not sure why you agree with that but cool! My point is getting across. What you are wanting to do is no different than a loan, it just shows up differently than if borrowed from a bank.

I was close with my brother and excited to be in business with him. I wish one of us would've took a different job because now Christmas wouldn't be so awkward.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> Maybe I made the question too complicated. I am simply seeking a way to fairly offer an investment that would make him full partner. I am not sure what doesn't jive.
> 
> Yes, I have my mind made up to extend the offer, that is appearant. What I am looking for is a fair way to do that.


Take your last three years of net profit. Add them together. Divide by two and have him pay you that for 50% ownership.

Done.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Oh lord, I could've sworn I read posts where you were turning down work because you dont have the equipment! You don't have the equipment because you don't have the money because you don't have the equipment.
> 
> Until now you've never said you are happy with where you are. You said the opposite.
> 
> What is your TRUE reason for wanting to work with him then?


No, you have assumed the opposite. Read the posts. It's exhausting, I know.

I answered that question earlier. You need to read the posts again. Look for the Nswer. I can't beat it into the ground anymore.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I am not sure why you agree with that but cool! My point is getting across. What you are wanting to do is no different than a loan, it just shows up differently than if borrowed from a bank.
> 
> I was close with my brother and excited to be in business with him. I wish one of us would've took a different job because now Christmas wouldn't be so awkward.


It's not even remotely the same thing as a loan.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ryanshull said:


> No, you have assumed the opposite. Read the posts. It's exhausting, I know.
> 
> I answered that question earlier. You need to read the posts again. Look for the Nswer. I can't beat it into the ground anymore.


Yeah I give up. I wish you luck with it. Family partnerships are hard. If he's older, he will have a hard time taking orders from his younger brother. If he's younger, he will be sick of being pushed around by his big brother. Your mother will get involved in everything and eventually, it all becomes very stressful.

Then one day things will end and then a few years and tens of thousands of dollars later, you'll be where you started today.

Sorry if I sound bitter. Lol.

I'll be interested in hearing what you do.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

I take it you guys all only slept for 6 hours last night after spending the evening on ct , only to wake up and get right back on........... What is wrong with us?


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Yeah I give up. I wish you luck with it. Family partnerships are hard. If he's older, he will have a hard time taking orders from his younger brother. If he's younger, he will be sick of being pushed around by his big brother. Your mother will get involved in everything and eventually, it all becomes very stressful.
> 
> Then one day things will end and then a few years and tens of thousands of dollars later, you'll be where you started today.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you had such bad luck with your experience, I am sure that creates a heavy bias towards not doing this at all.

Thanks for the feedback and enduring my confusing thought process.


----------



## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Yeah I give up. I wish you luck with it. Family partnerships are hard. If he's older, he will have a hard time taking orders from his younger brother. If he's younger, he will be sick of being pushed around by his big brother. Your mother will get involved in everything and eventually, it all becomes very stressful.
> 
> Then one day things will end and then a few years and tens of thousands of dollars later, you'll be where you started today.
> 
> ...


That's your family Bamm, not everybody elses. Granted, family and partnerships are always risky but seems we don't know anything about his family it's irrelevant.

Take a look around, over he years it's amazing how many family owned businesses I've run into. A family owned business is the backbone of America. It's never easy but what is?


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Oconomowoc said:


> That's your family Bamm, not everybody elses. Granted, family and partnerships are always risky but seems we don't know anything about his family it's irrelevant.
> 
> Take a look around, over he years it's amazing how many family owned businesses I've run into. A family owned business is the backbone of America. It's never easy but what is?


Most family owned businesses only have one family member as the owner. That member then usually hires a child of theirs and their spouse does office work.

I dont know if a family owned business has let's say, 4 owners all with 25% ownership, all doing the same tasks. Too many chiefs.

My wife does office work for me. I could consider myself a family owned business. 

The problem with construction partnerships is that there is often a lack of set job tasks for each individual. They each try to do all tasks and it doesn't work. In my case, it was clearly defined but even that doesn't work when one stops doing their tasks completely while collecting a paycheck.

Partnerships require a lot of trust, especially since everyone listed as an owner gets access to the bank account and company credit cards.


----------



## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Oh yeah, that isn't worth anything. I basically had to start my company two years in a row. No one cares that you went hungry. Owners go hungry trying to make their dream happen, that's part of the business.
> 
> No one cares about your contacts unless they are continual purchasers of your service and not you yourself. If you weren't there, would they still buy from your company?
> 
> ...


This post right sums up what a construction company is worth, in the real world view.:thumbsup:


----------



## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

No, I disagree. I know right in town probably 30+ family companies where ownership is shared. That's very much the norm Bamm. That's a big assumption you're making that has no grounds for fact. Of course a 'majority ownership' is completely a different thing. 

I would estimate more than half the manufacturing companies in town are family owned with shared ownership. 

When you took your brother on as a partner how old were you? Probably in your teens or very early 20's. At that stage of life business is looked at through a completely different lens than say a 40-60 year old man who's mellowed out and seen life a little.

Also, family ownership for many grew up in with families that owned a business so most don't start from scratch. 2nd or 3rd generation businesses have children born surrounded by business knowledge of family partnerships.

Although I still agree that a partnership in construction is less than ideal it can work if the owners are mature and can put ego aside. In construction that's rare. Lol


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

I have actually been considering this for a long time. And have been trepidatios for all the reasons you mention. My cousins had a falling out when the family oil delivery business was handed to them and after several years the one who was doing all the work wanted to buy the others out........so I have seen it go bad.

but as of current, I have an arm in a sling, and he came to help at a very low wage just to make sure my business stays together and my family gets fed. He shows a lot of interest in leadership, and he is a craftsman. You just can't hardly teach true craftsmanship ( or as I like to call it......giving a chit...)

I M able to do considerably more than I thought I could with my arm in a sling, but he has really stepped up and shown that he can do this work well, he has a lot of good ideas, and we just work well as a team. Actually I had a couple issues on the current job that I have been dreading dealing with, and when it came time to do it, his lightbulb just turned on. Like I said earlier, the total is greater than the sum of its parts.

One thing that comes to mind as far as price is that he should make 10 to 12% or more on his investment on top of drawing a salary for his hands on work. I could come close to figuring that out using my income and tax statements.........maybe. I started from nothing, so even as small as my business is, it has been exponential growth.

Any thoughts on that method of calculation?


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Gary H said:


> This post right sums up what a construction company is worth, in the real world view.:thumbsup:


So essentially, "the business" has no value. Just net worth.
Yeah, so that would basically be net worth. If he invested an amount equall to the net worth of the business, that would be fair.

Again, that money doesn't go in my pocket, it goes into the business essentially doubling its worth.

I have probably just been over thinking it.


----------



## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

From my experience and through observation, the main problem with partnerships like this is that one person always ends up feeling like they are doing more work then the other for equal pay. This causes resentment and tension. 

It's not that I don't think p ships can work, because I know they can, but the issue above has to be addressed and tasks (job descriptions, expectations) must be clearly defined beforehand.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Oconomowoc said:


> No, I disagree. I know right in town probably 30+ family companies where ownership is shared. That's very much the norm Bamm. That's a big assumption you're making that has no grounds for fact. Of course a 'majority ownership' is completely a different thing.
> 
> I would estimate more than half the manufacturing companies in town are family owned with shared ownership.
> 
> ...


Mike- I think that's well presented.
Bams experience is certainly valid- but it's also extremely limited and biased on this topic.

when I look around me here I see many businesses doing well like this- if you know where to look- heck , I even forgot to mention Florists( my wife worked in one)- they are often multi generational family operations.

when you are brought up in it-it's a completely different animal- but most of them have CLEAR CUT AREAS OF RESPONSIBILITY---which all parties involved respect.

the garage builder I mentioned-one brother was in charge of sales and another brother handled the actual construction in the field with he and his son strapping on tools every day- the old man had general "Emeritus" status which basically had him drinking coffee and causing trouble in the office( he also did some sales and ordered materials.)

the roofing supply house?- the old man was the founder,one son ran the warehouse, one son ran deliveries, one son was in charge of stroking contractors, going to HBA meetings, seminars etc., an aunt handled bookkeeping, some of the nieces and granddaughters were counter staff

they all had(have) their areas of responsibility
in my case both of my sons will ultimately be involved and each will have partner ship interests- but they each will have their own areas of responsibility which they already understand and respect-after all they each have different skill sets etc.
in no case do I see 2 guys basically doing the same thing-all these cases involve somebody operating in their owns sphere of influence to mutual advantage
stephen


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BradingCon said:


> From my experience and through observation, the main problem with partnerships like this is that one person always ends up feeling like they are doing more work then the other for equal pay. This causes resentment and tension.
> 
> It's not that I don't think p ships can work, because I know they can, but the issue above has to be addressed and tasks (job descriptions, expectations) must be clearly defined beforehand.


Several have been saying this, so I am taking it as gospel. Have our roles well defined, systems in place, possibly a buyout clause, and have it all in writing.

Good stuff.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I never talk to anyone, ever.. :laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

When would you have the time to talk to "real" people? :blink:


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

J F said:


> Yeah, but most people aren't forthcoming with their personal financials like everyone in your town. :whistling


I never said they were, but ownership itself is common knowledge in a small town. 

Whatever works for you though, this conversation is becoming lame. Maybe it's not the town but the type of relationships people have.

This isn't rocket science.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

It must be the "small town" thing, where everyone knows everything about everyone. Never had a chance to live in a small town, but would like to...I love knowing everyone's business.

Now quit pouting Mike, you've been rather sullen lately. :whistling


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Oconomowoc said:


> This isn't rocket science.


Thank goodness. Physics 3 was about the threshold for my wit


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I gave up after that addition/subtraction crap.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

J F said:


> When would you have the time to talk to "real" people? :blink:


In between running my business and raising a family. :whistling


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

J F said:


> I gave up after that addition/subtraction crap.


I believe you..


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Thanks. :thumbup:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

No problem Jay. You ever need a reality check just let me know.. :scooter:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Most family owned businesses only have one family member as the owner. That member then usually hires a child of theirs and their spouse does office work.
> 
> I dont know if a family owned business has let's say, 4 owners all with 25% ownership, all doing the same tasks. Too many chiefs.
> 
> ...


This is the key. You cant have everyone doing the same job, always. 

My dad and I partnered up when he was a start up. He is not a networker, never has been, never will be. He is a very talented and seasoned builder and designer. I expressed a desire to start my own gig (I was a commercial super) and he pitched me the idea of working with him. I declined. 

But, I weighed the possible pro's and cons. I had some capitol and credit, and experience in my trade, but certainly not enough to do so comfortably. BUT, I didnt have any business systems or infrastructure. 
I had no desire to be a bookkeeper, my mother is a very experienced office manager and was the company bookkeeper. Pretty appealing :thumbsup: I also wouldnt of been able to afford a bookkeeper. 

I also realized he was a far superior builder, and there was an obvious mentor ship: value there. 

Cons for me, your working with your dad. Not really a big con, not like Im digging ditches for him like high school. But what about individualism? Would I be second tier? Not really a big worry, because of his Pros.

For him, I was a young, very hard working , ambitious barn stormer who would be more than ready to work my azz off to get what WE wanted. More money, obviously, but also to build a brand. He knew I would dig networking. 

So we went to work together. He had three weeks of work, and gross sales volume was low.

He mentored me in every capacity, as a builder and businessman. I will never be able to explain my gratitude for that mentorship, and the mentorship I still get. I am proud to say we rarely argued, and never bitterly, even though we are both strong willed men.

He turned out to be right, I have been elected to four boards of Directors, including treasurer of a local chamber, current president of our HBA, and a director in our statewide Texas Association of Builders. 

Because of the networking, and his incredible skills as a builder/ designer, and my fledgling but competent skills as a builder, we have increased sales by nearly five hundred percent in 4 years. :thumbsup: 

Hopefully my brother will be a partner in the future. 



We are very rare in my experience. I dont know many family partnerships that work, or partnerships period. We work because we have different skill sets and like skill sets, and do whatever needs to be done. 

We work because neither needs to feed their ego at the expense of the other. 

We work because we fall over our selves making it fair for the other guy financially. 

We work because BOTH parties are competent. 

It wouldnt of worked if he had had a very established business, I needed to be a part of building it.

Number one thing though, for any partnership, including ours, is there has to be enough money for both to meet their financial goals. It is imperative.


Some partnerships can work, but it takes work, and there need to be a reason for the partnership, like opposing strengths and mutual respect. 


Good luck :thumbsup:


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Thank god someone put a stop to the last two pages of drivel:thumbsup::laughing:

I mean I like Jay and Matt, but sometimes I think they need there own "Private" section.:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

donerightwyo said:


> Thank god someone put a stop to the last two pages of drivel:thumbsup::laughing:
> 
> I mean I like Jay and Matt, but sometimes I think they need there own "Private" section.:laughing:


Im usually in on that drivel :laughing::thumbup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

donerightwyo said:


> Thank god someone put a stop to the last two pages of drivel:thumbsup::laughing:
> 
> I mean I like Jay and Matt, but sometimes I think they need there own "Private" section.:laughing:


Here we go _again_....


What's everyone making for breakfast tomorrow? :whistling


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I never talk to anyone, ever.. :laughing:


Nice not talking to you, let's get together
and not talk again sometime.

BTW, hate Facebook couldn't care less what's
going on in anybody elses life. I accept friend
requests, but that it.

But, hey that's me.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

J F said:


> Here we go again....
> 
> What's everyone making for breakfast tomorrow? :whistling


Steak


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

What time? :whistling


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Bunited2 said:


> Nice not talking to you, let's get together
> and not talk again sometime.
> 
> BTW, hate Facebook couldn't care less what's
> ...


You should see my Facebook page. Just about every post I make is a joke and it's one sentence. Facebook is crazy, never seen so many cat lovers and people posting photos of food in my life. It's like an unmanaged mental ward.


----------



## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

j f said:


> what time? :whistling


6:00


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:laughing: Unmanaged mental ward.


I'll be there at 6:15, medium-rare please


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

J F said:


> Nah, I just stopped takin' 'em. :thumbup:



Does SWMBO condone this action?...:whistling:laughing::laughing:


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I like the whole amazon Christmas thing.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

griz said:


> Does SWMBO condone this action?...:whistling:laughing::laughing:


She did just ask me what I was in here chucklin' about. :laughing:

Good call, Griz. :thumbup:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

What swmbo dont know, she soon will.. You had better get to swallowing Jay..


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Why is it my problem that she has to be up by 6:00 for work tomorrow a.m.?









Women...sheesh.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> What swmbo dont know, she soon will.. You had better get to swallowing Jay..


:blink:


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> What swmbo dont know, she soon will.. *You had better get to swallowing Jay..*


Oh oh, that don't sound good....:whistling:no::laughing:


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Repercussions are in the works. :whistling


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> What swmbo dont know, she soon will.. You had better get to swallowing Jay..




Private room Pleeease:thumbsup:


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

J F said:


> Repercussions are in the works. :whistling


:laughing:


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> You had better get to swallowing Jay..


Just what I said when I proposed. I'm just romantic like that.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

J F said:


> Just what I said when I proposed. I'm just romantic like that.


:laughing::thumbup::whistling


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Plus, I told her Matt would explain his technique.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

_Oh yes I did!_


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Funny the difference a comma can make, huh Matt? :laughing:


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

donerightwyo said:


> Seriously though Ryan could we be any further service to you?


I think you've done enough. lol.

I'll let you know how it goes next week........then over time as it plays out as far as contracts , exit strategies, and what the initial deal is if we agree on anything at all. He may just scoff and not be interested, but I have a feeling he will be.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

She married you so it will probably take me aloooong time to explain it to her...


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Thanks for the update, Ryan. Now skedaddle...unless you have something germane to post to the _recent_ conversation. :laughing:


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> She married you so it will probably take me aloooong time to explain it to her...


:laughing::laughing::thumbup:


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> I think you've done enough. lol.
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes next week........then over time as it plays out as far as contracts , exit strategies, and what the initial deal is if we agree on anything at all. He may just scoff and not be interested, but I have a feeling he will be.


We're here for ya man, glad we could help:thumbsup::laughing:


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Bunited2 said:


> I am truly sorry and I will say another 10
> Hail Mary's tonight...that's 40 for the day.


_
weak_


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

J F said:


> :laughing: You already knew what you did and didn't want to hear when you first posted the thread...nice try. :thumbup:
> 
> Your sense of humor did get better though, kudos.


I didn't want to hear my business is worth basically squat, but that's the conclusion I came to. 

I think my op had to much info that wasn't really relevent to the question. So I got feedback on everything from family relations to interpersonal communication, exit strategies (which was actually helpful) and somehow this banter.

Lesson learned. Keep it short and to the point for simpletons like...........well ......I will keep it civil since you are borderline doing so.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

You were doing so well...


----------



## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

One night my GF is there when I'm on FB
and I have like 248 friends, she say's 'who's 
that?' and 'who's that?' and I said 'I don't know 
they just invited me'...then she said 'what,
to the party in their pants?'
.
.
.
Obviously, only friended people I knew after
that.


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

All my FB friends are duck faced cleavage chicks.


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

ryanshull said:


> I didn't want to hear my business is worth basically squat, but that's the conclusion I came to.
> 
> I think my op had to much info that wasn't really relevent to the question. So I got feedback on everything from family relations to interpersonal communication, exit strategies (which was actually helpful) and somehow this banter.
> 
> Lesson learned. Keep it short and to the point for simpletons like...........well ......I will keep it civil since you are borderline doing so.


Pretty sure we just got insulted....:no::laughing::laughing:

Dam, just trying to have a little fun...at someone elses expense...:laughing:


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

12 pages in one day:clap::clap:

Ryan can be proud of that.:thumbup:


----------



## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> I didn't want to hear my business is worth basically squat, but that's the conclusion I came to.
> 
> I think my op had to much info that wasn't really relevent to the question. So I got feedback on everything from family relations to interpersonal communication, exit strategies (which was actually helpful) and somehow this banter.
> 
> Lesson learned. Keep it short and to the point for simpletons like...........well ......I will keep it civil since you are borderline doing so.


Dude, you are the company...make it happen.

Also, seriously consider incorporating.

Look into it.


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

J F said:


> You were doing so well...


It's just banter there big guy. Didn't mean to hurt your feelers,


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

_Definitely_


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I _will _be expecting my proper credit for the last few pages, when it's handed out. :laughing:


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

ryanshull said:


> It's just banter there big guy. Didn't mean to hurt your feelers,


No hurt feelings here......:laughing::laughing:

I'm just laughing too hard...:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:


----------



## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> All my FB friends are duck faced cleavage chicks.


If they have cleavage going on, how do you
know they're duckfaced?

You need to get your priorities straight.


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

J F said:


> I _will _be expecting my proper credit for the last few pages, when it's handed out. :laughing:


What happened to your boyfriend?



Must of had to go prep for the big day of shopping.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ryanshull said:


> It's just banter there big guy. Didn't mean to hurt your feelers,


I am the_ king_ of banter. 





















...and also the jester of repartee. :laughing:


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Bunited2 said:


> Dude, you are the company...make it happen.
> 
> Also, seriously consider incorporating.
> 
> Look into it.


Leaning more towards LLP.

Same benefits, less tax burden.

I'm not sulking, I am making it happen.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

donerightwyo said:


> What happened to your boyfriend?
> 
> 
> 
> Must of had to go prep for the big day of shopping.


He got pissed that I wanted him to teach his technique to my wife. Wtf?


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Realizing tbat you're worth nothing can be liberating. Own it and then do something about it. Without a partner would be nice when you actually become worth something so you dont have to split it..


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ryanshull said:


> I'm not sulking.


You are _so_ sulking.


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Bunited2 said:


> If they have cleavage going on, how do you
> know they're duckfaced?
> 
> You need to get your priorities straight.


It's hard to miss.

My first **** chick friend request just had a pic of her arse In jeans leaning into the backseat of a car.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ryanshull said:


> *twitching*


:blink:





















*not caring*






























:laughing:


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

*twitching _more_*





























*_way_ more*


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

J F said:


> :blink:
> 
> *not caring*
> 
> :laughing:


Ouch. Of all the mean things...........


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Ok I don't get it. 

I'm out.


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

donerightwyo said:


> Ok I don't get it.
> 
> I'm out.


Ya, me too


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

So...how much in equipment do you need to buy? I'm talking dollar amount? $10k...50k...100k...250k?

You never actually replied to those questions umpteen pages ago.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)




----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

J F said:


> So...how much in equipment do you need to buy? I'm talking dollar amount? $10k...50k...100k...250k?
> 
> You never actually replied to those questions umpteen pages ago.


Was that you that asked?
Sure I did, I said I don't have the numbers yet, but in order for him to draw an equall salary we would have to essentially double our work load....... Which means double the employees, and nearly double the equipment and marketing.


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

ryanshull said:


> Was that you that asked?
> Sure I did, I said I don't have the numbers yet, but in order for him to draw an equall salary we would have to essentially double our work load....... Which means double the employees, and nearly double the equipment and marketing.


Shooting from the hip I would say around 20k and continued folding of the profits back into expansion.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

OK, how about some rough $ #'s of what kind of equipment you need to grow:

Scenario 1)

Scenario 2)

Scenario 3)

Scenario 4)

You seem to be avoiding any kind of real $ #'s and I'm not sure why. It's not like they're set in stone. 

So, what's up?


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ryanshull said:


> Shooting from the hip I would say around 20k and continued folding of the profits back into expansion.


20k for what? Tools? A vehicle? Where did you come up with the 20k?


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

What do you own in tools right now? Vehicles? What kind of dollar volume are you doing with them? What would you do with $x to build/expand your business?

These questions are just the _very start_ of what you need to know. And what anyone who is trying to help you needs to know.


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

J F said:


> 20k for what? Tools? A vehicle? Where did you come up with the 20k?


Ok I'm back in:clap:

But seriously, you think after 8 pages of **** references he wants your advice:laughing::laughing:


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

He might benefit from it.


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

J F said:


> OK, how about some rough $ #'s of what kind of equipment you need to grow:
> 
> Scenario 1)
> 
> ...


Just avoiding looking stupid cuz I haven't thought out the numbers yet.

My net worth around 20k, so that's my contribution.

His match:

5k in hand and power tools to onsite use

He has a truck, but 6k for an outfitted trailer

A service we could offer more of is in house cabinet building. I rent a small shop and am partially outfitted, but need more space and machinery. Possibly a showroom.......

Somewhere between 7k and $infinity in equipment, and double my rent for a larger place.

Another 2k to get word out.....marketing.

I have a small stash I could fold on as well.


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

There you go, excellent. :clap:

That's the stuff that needs to be known.


----------



## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

I also do concrete countertops, but I have to create a market in this area for it cuz there isn't one. No one here has heard of it, if they have, they haven't seen it.


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

For what it's worth I think Jay might know a thing or two. Let him help ya.:thumbsup:


----------



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Don't take this the wrong way, but basically you two would be starting a new business, as there's really nothing of value (again, no offense, just the truth) in your current biz.

This is a brand new biz venture. Yes, you've done some things, but the cold hard reality is, it is worth zero dollars.

It now makes more sense to me why you would consider your brother as a 50% partner.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

ryanshull said:


> I also do concrete countertops, but I have to create a market in this area for it cuz there isn't one. No one here has heard of it, if they have, they haven't seen it.


Great, another _potential _source of income.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Still trying to decide which of these gets
the 'Gold' and which one gets the 'Silver':



ryanshull said:


> Every time my phone
> bleeps the little notification, I eagerly open cf hoping
> for the answers to my prayers and here you goobers
> are burnin it up.....


OR



J F said:


> Thanks for the update, Ryan.
> Now skedaddle...unless you have something germane
> to post to the _recent_ conversation. :laughing:


May actually be a tie.



:cool2:


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

:laughing:


Bunited2 said:


> Still trying to decide which of these gets
> the 'Gold' and which one gets the 'Silver':
> 
> 
> ...


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

I don't make big decisions quickly, I try to get all the facts first, that's why I inquired with y'all, and this time it appears the nay sayers were right.

It's been a while since I worked side by side with my brother. When he is there and he is working, its great, but it seems the alcohol has won with this guy. He left me hangin Monday, so we didn't get what we needed done this week, so we decided to work Saturday. 

The stuff I have left on this job I can't do with my arm in a sling, so at this point, I am really relying on him and the helper. He texts me at 2:30 in the afternoon Saturday "where are you guys?". Ummmmm since you didn't show up on time SIX HOURS AGO we gave up on ya, brother.

I am grateful he came to help me in a time of need, but needless to say I have withdrawn my offer of partnership, and am putting an ad out for his replacement.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

You're welcome...


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> I don't make big decisions quickly, I try to get all the facts first, that's why I inquired with y'all, and this time it appears the nay sayers were right.
> 
> It's been a while since I worked side by side with my brother. When he is there and he is working, its great, but it seems the alcohol has won with this guy. He left me hangin Monday, so we didn't get what we needed done this week, so we decided to work Saturday.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that, man. I think you should go it alone:thumbsup:I had a 50/50 partner just out of college, won't ever happen again:no:


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

BamBamm5144 said:


> You're welcome...


.............And you probably thought you were talking to a brick wall.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

donerightwyo said:


> I had a 50/50 partner just out of *colloge*


Did you get a degree in spelling at colloge?


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> .....
> I am grateful he came to help me in a time of need, but needless to say I have withdrawn my offer of partnership, and am putting an ad out for his replacement.


Better you had found out sooner than later.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Did you get a degree in spelling at colloge?


Obviously not!:thumbsup:


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Bunited2 said:


> Better you had found out sooner than later.


For sure.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

So Ryan....a 12 pack of Natty light woulda solved this ***t right off the bat? :blink::blink::blink:


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

J F said:


> So Ryan....a 12 pack of Natty light woulda solved this ***t right off the bat? :blink::blink::blink:


Probably a case.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ryanshull said:


> Probably a case.


 Natty Light.

Miller Lite , Shiner Bock, Heinikein, Sam Adams, ect

Lifes to short for Natty Light. I make hog bait with Natty Light:blink:


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Natty Light.
> 
> Miller Lite , Shiner Bock, Heinikein, Sam Adams, ect
> 
> Lifes to short for Natty Light. I make hog bait with Natty Light:blink:


I'm not much of a beer guy myself, but budwieser would be my choice.

Crown an coke if I have a choice......


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

ryanshull said:


> ...Crown an coke if I have a choice......



Wow, what a way to ruin a good Coke...:laughing::laughing::whistling


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Unfortunately , I love beer. 

Luckily , my wife is not cool with me drinking everyday.:thumbsup::no:

Also, unfortunately, GRIZ got me liking Henessee.

New Years will suck. :laughing: Between finishing a PITA project by friday for a terrific client, negotiating a merger between my HBA and another, and not having a day off between Thanksgiving and Xmas has me drinking a lot more :laughing:

Deer season may pass me by


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

griz said:


> Wow, what a way to ruin a good Coke...:laughing::laughing::whistling


:no::no::no:


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