# Bond Beams Every 4 ft.



## bshuford (May 7, 2012)

I am building a 16ft high split face block building. Plans show a bond beam every 4 ft. around building. Do I have to stop and fill bond beam every 4ft. or can I fill it from the top.


----------



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

how would you fill the bond beam (beam ie horizontal) from the top without filling all the cores. Or do you mean the cores are grouted every 4' (vertical, way more likely). Answer, depends on the specs. I find it easier to grout every 3 or 4 courses, that way i know their full


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It is normal to grout every 4-6 foot anyway unless you have a high grout specification. I assume that you have vertical as well as horizontal grouting to do?


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Ive brought in the pump guys every beam course when ive done tall walls or multiple story buildings, but it was normally every 8 feet or whatnot.


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

masonry


----------



## bshuford (May 7, 2012)

So it is best to grout every 4 courses and then fill then bond beam. Will grout have to cure before moving on to other courses. Can i use type s morter to fill. And will building inspector have to inspect evvery course & bond beam. Thanks for all help.


----------



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I don't get it. when you refer to a baond beam do you mean a course of hollow block with rebar laid in to it and grouted? If so then it needs to be grouted before any other block are laid on top unless they are also part of the bond beam. I've never laid a bondbeam at anything but across openings or at the top of a floor level and I try to hit that and have it grouted before the end of the day so it is partly set by the morning. I've always used Type S but you'll have to look at your specs. I've worked on jobs though that the the bond beam was grouted and fresh block were laid on to in the same day. the mud was the same consistency as the mud used for laying up so it didn't effect the stability of the wall at all.

I don't do a lot of block work though


----------



## bshuford (May 7, 2012)

Our plans have bond beams every four ft. . I have only seen bond beams at top but these are at every 4 is that unusual. They do have rebar. Will inspector have to inspect each bond beam.


----------



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I doubt. Take pictures if you're nervous. Sounds like serious overkill to me.

An inspector could also tap on the block every 4' and listen whether it's full. I've seen inspectors do that at the bottom of walls.


----------



## bshuford (May 7, 2012)

We think its overkill also we are going to talk with eng. to see if he can change plans. Thanks for fast response.


----------



## regsigmon (May 8, 2012)

vertical fill with #5 Rebar every 2 feet & Bond Beams with 2 #5 Rebar every 4 feet horizontal


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

bshuford said:


> So it is best to grout every 4 courses and then fill then bond beam. Will grout have to cure before moving on to other courses. Can i use type s morter to fill. And will building inspector have to inspect evvery course & bond beam. Thanks for all help.


You are in way over your head I'm afraid.


----------



## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

You can keep building the day after grouting. There is no such thing as the fictitious 28 days (except for laboratory test samples). The grout is not carrying much vertical load and the construction loads are minimal.

According to the specifications, the grout must be 8" to 11" slump (soupy) without any very course aggregate (3/4" max.) to insure that it fills all voids and surrounds the rebar. The block will absorb the excess water, pull it out of the mix and make a good bond. That is the reason high lift grouting is becoming so common, especially on heavily reinforced walls. There are rates that grout can be brought up, so pumps are valuable to allow multiple different grout lifts in one grout pour.

For vertical grouting, it is good to keep a fresh surface on each lift to allow it to work in stages. Top off the top of the grout pour an hour or so later because of the consolidation and water absorption.

High strength grout is not necessarily good, just as arbitrarily grouting a wall full is not good. Mortar is not good for grouting. Many engineers will put a maximum strength allowed on grout at 2500 or 3000 psi.

If you are lucky, you may be in an area that makes units designed for efficient grouting ( 2 webs at 8" o.c. with open ends or half cores) and not the archaic and heavy, knuckle busting 2 core block with flush ends. Well aligned webs do not have the ledges to hang up the grout and allow web bedding to contain the grout where desired and eliminate was and leakage.

bshuford - I suspect you have a design engineer with a background in designing in seismic areas or justs wear a belt and suspenders. How thick are the block walls for the 16' high walls (8", 10", 12", 14" or 16"?)

If you sense and worried inspector, come up with plan and get him to agree to it, unless he wants to work a lot. I have seen complexes of 10 to 15 - 20 story partially grouted apartment buildings built using 6" partially reinforced block and designed according to U.S. codes with liberal allowances on inspection and sampling that were proposed by the contractor (who also hired the engineer).


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Dick you will appreciate this one. I got a call from one of my commercial masons today, the engineer specified high early strength portland for the grout.

I do see specifications around here for 4-6' horizontal bond beams, normally on national specs (like Dollar General), smaller archy firms doing cookie cutter specifications around the country.


----------



## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

Back in the day we would grout at 16' regularly. But if you aren't going to use a pump, you will want to keep it manageable.....as Dick mentions, the grout will need to be loose to flow. You don't mention vertical grout cells, but I'm guessing you have those as well? If they're every 4', you should get good coverage on all horizontal steel as long as the grout is the right slump. Dom, you can easily get the grout to flow through the bond beam, whether you use bond beam paper, or just use U blocks to block off non-grout cells......


----------



## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> You can keep building the day after grouting.


Dick, just to clarify, are you saying he would need to let the grout set overnight before laying additional courses, or are you saying grout and continue to lay the same day?

As for the grout itself, I highly doubt you'll get away with using Type S. The strength isn't the only factor either. Around here at least, it's very clear that NO LIME what-so-ever is to come in contact with the rebar........


----------



## JD3lta (Nov 22, 2009)

idk but i'll throw my 2c.. if it's the case of core filling than I'd weigh heavy on yes


----------



## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

all commercial building i have been on have called for vertical cells poured every 4foot and horizontal bond beams every 4 foot also.vertical,most time call for 2 number 4 rebar while bond beams call for 2 number 5's.
we have always poured both verticals and bond beams at the same time,ie when we get to the bond beam.most times you are scaffold high when you get to this point,so we will build scaffold and stock and go on after the pour,depending on the time of day.i have seen a few buildings where they tried to wait and pour it all after the walls have been built and a strong wind knock the building down.


----------



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Type S here has no lime in it at all. Just portland and plasticizers. Bond beam paper. never seen that. But again I don't do much block. I've only been on a handful of commercial block jobs.

With all these bond beams every 4', are you also using block lok? It seems to me that the heavy use of bond beams may let you get away from block lok and still put you at the 0.0002% cross sectional area for steel


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

The different items in a CMU wall serve different purposes. Block lock, assuming you mean horizontal reinforcing, i.e. ladder/truss wire, does not serve the same purpose as horizontal and vertical rebar reinforced poured cells. Both are required for single wythe reinforced masonry wall systems.


----------



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Maybe that's the issue. We're in a seismic zone 4 which is moderate but there are no real natural disasters in Ontario (except winter)


----------



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Here's some reading scroll down to the part that talks about ladder truss reinforcementhttp://www.compactdynamics.com/taunt_foundations-1.html


----------



## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

try that again http://www.compactdynamics.com/taunt_foundations-1.html 


specifically

*Ladde**r-Type Joint Reinforcement Is Better than Truss-Type *
Joint reinforcement can be used instead of bond-beam units that contain horizontal bars. This type of reinforcement consists of two horizontal, parallel wire rods connected by cross ties (drawing, facing page). The reinforcement is placed between courses of block or brick, and the side rods get embedded in the mortar. The cross ties may go straight across or zigzag; these cross ties are called ladder and truss types, respectively.

Since the article uses all imperial measurements I'll assume that it isn't a Canadian firm


----------



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*wire*

While we are on the subject discussing joint reinforcement. For those interested NCMA TECH. NOTE 12-02B explains the difference between ladder type and truss type joint reinforcement. It also explains the correct usage of them both. For there are appropriate times when one should or should not be used.


----------

