# 240 for a welder



## farmerkev (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm not the best with electrical so I'm thinking somebody here will have more info on my problem. I have a Hobart 175 wire feed welder I'm putting in the garage, it's a three prong plug and the outlet is a matching 3 prong 240. When I plugged the welder in the breaker tripped, it's a 50 amp breaker, and it's a 30 amp welder. I replaced the breaker in case it was no good, still happened. The outlet has the two hots on the proper lugs and a white neutral on the center lug. There's a bare ground wire that's just sitting in the receptacle. I tested outlet and it does get a proper 240v of power, and the welder has also been tested at a welding equipment repair shop, so I know it works. I'm assuming my issue involves the ground wire that goes nowhere. Any help?


----------



## Meadow (Dec 1, 2014)

Something is pulling excessive current. What is the NEMA designation of the plug and receptacle?


----------



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

Sounds like you've most likely got the wiring mixed up - if it trips as soon as you power up.

Also, a 3 wire plug you described should have two hots and a ground, not neutral. That shouldn't be causing the problem, but fix it anyway.

Check your connections on the receptacle, and the plug to welder if you wired that and hasn't been tested. 

Make sure there's no short circuiting between terminals - ex: if wire was stripped too far back, crammed into box, and is contacting hot to grounded metal box.


----------



## farmerkev (Sep 30, 2011)

Meadow, not sure what that would be.

dielectricunion, what's the way of fixing that?


----------



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

The receptacle/outlet should have 3 screw terminals and one will most likely have a G on it. Be sure this is connected to the ground wire and the two hot legs are connected to the other two terminals.

I'm assuming you're using a 3 wire cable to connect the outlet? Should be easy with the colored insulation to ensure your two hots are on the two hot terminals. 

And I'm sure you're using a dual pole breaker and not two individual, since you say replaced the breaker?

Double check the connection of plug coming out of the welder.

I did a service call at an appliance rental shop that had 220 tripping and it was their dryer plug wired all wrong.

If theres no mistake there, I'm not sure what it could be, seeing that you oversized your breaker.


----------



## farmerkev (Sep 30, 2011)

Could there be a problem if the hots are reversed?


----------



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

No, as long as each hot is on a separate leg, it doesn't matter


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Have you done anything with the welder since having it tested? Switched the polarity, for example? Dropped it off the tailgate? 

I can understand the electricians' absence from this thread. Once you've ID'd yourself as being "not the best with electrical" it seems like any sort of encouragement will just put you in harm's way.


----------



## farmerkev (Sep 30, 2011)

I could understand the lack of answers due to my level of knowledge as well. I'm not new to electrical but I don't want to nor will I do anything I'm not unsure of or feeling unsafe about. The welder was brought in and tested after it didn't work in the garage and nothing's happened to it since. It's not my welder and I don't know much about them. The welder I have can run on gas or use flux core wire. I believe this reverses the polarity of the welder. Sounds like I should try switching the welder over to flux core and see if there is a difference.


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Any chance you have a hot & neutral wires switched at the breaker?

or at the receptacle?


----------



## farmerkev (Sep 30, 2011)

griz said:


> Any chance you have a hot & neutral wires switched at the breaker?
> 
> or at the receptacle?


Well the hots are red and black, neutral is white. Coming off the breaker is black and red.

And as far as having an electrical short or something major wouldn't the breaker flip immediately, not wait till on plugged in the welder?


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

farmerkev said:


> Well the hots are red and black, neutral is white. Coming off the breaker is black and red.
> 
> And as far as having an electrical short or something major wouldn't the breaker flip immediately, not wait till on plugged in the welder?


Did you run the wires?

If not for peace of mind tone them out.


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

As Dielectric said ............forget neutral.......there is no neutral in 240.....only in 120.....the only reason you see a neutral used in, for example a 240 dryer or range circuit is for the clock and timer on the unit.....which is 110........an equipment ground is run making this install a 4 wire plug.......... 

I suspect if everything else is OK.....your welder is pulling more than 50 on start up


----------



## farmerkev (Sep 30, 2011)

So when this was wired they used 4 wire in what was suppose to be a three wire situation?


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

You have the owners manual?

http://www.hobartwelders.com/service/owners-manuals/


----------



## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

This _is_ on a 2-pole breaker, right?




Delta


----------



## farmerkev (Sep 30, 2011)

Correct. It is on a two pole breaker.


----------



## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Well, it's the kind of thing that if I was there, it'd prolly take me less than 5 minutes to figure out if it was a wiring issue, or a welder issue, but it's a bit more difficult to explain over the World Wide Interweb.

You could start by taking apart the male plug on the welder, and making sure that the wires are correct.

Then you can TURN OFF THE BREAKER, and take apart the receptacle, and make sure it's wired properly.

Then you could turn the breaker back on, and check the receptacle with a DMM.

You could try plugging in a different 240v load, and seeing if that trips the breaker.

You could try plugging the welder into a different 240v outlet.






Delta


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Kev, electricity is usually pretty simple in the way it works, it's like plumbing: supply and return, etc., keeping that in mind, you can usually figure out the cause of most problems with a few tests.

You can put a meter on the welder to see if you're drawing more than 50 amps. I believe you said it's rated at 30, so while highly unlikely, not impossible.

You plugged your welder into another receptacle to eliminate the welder from a possible cause.

Why don't you plug another piece of equipment into your "problem" receptacle and see if the breaker trips.

I would do those two first.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Irishslave said:


> As Dielectric said ............forget neutral.......there is no neutral in 240.....only in 120.....the only reason you see a neutral used in, for example a 240 dryer or range circuit is for the clock and timer on the unit.....which is 110........an equipment ground is run making this install a 4 wire plug..........
> 
> I suspect if everything else is OK.....your welder is pulling more than 50 on start up



There is no large amp draw turning an welder on. Once you start welding, yes. Plus his breaker is oversized to begin with.

His wiring is messed up, either the recept or in the panel. 

In this case, I agree the neutral is not needed. A lot of 240V single phase stuff requires a neutral now, they have stopped putting control transformers in many things.


----------

