# Sub issues



## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I don't care what his name is, just how bad of a betrayal it was....was he a long-time/often worker, or was this his 1st or 2nd gig with you? 

That's what I was curious about.


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

First yr with me.. I only expanded into paper this yr - got tired of turning that work away.. Hard to find a good worker in my area let alone one that is a skilled worker..

If I knew an illegal that spoke English I might concider putting one to work - concidering EVERY paper hanger ive interviewed came across as a con with their nose so far in the sky...

Their little dream will come crashing on them in the next yr im sure... as that type of work will decline and painting will increase, leaving all these fk sticks begging for work. =)


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Does he still have any open/active jobs going on with you now?

Either way, he's got to go!

Just make sure when the time is right, he finds out somehow that you are using another sub!


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

nope.. hes done right now. The rest of the paper work was scheduled for winter to keep us busy.. Guess hes not getn any xmas money - from me at least..

Good luck to him and his family :notworthy

But, overall - ive never delt with anything like this - guess I have been lucky up until now.

When I was thinking about it and initiated this thread - I was and still am :furious:

I for the life of me dont understand WHY someone would try to pull **** like that, even a dumb individual would know that pulling **** like that only benefits you in the short term and fks you in the end.

I know other contractors and painters - I ve already contacted one and asked if they had a decent hanger that wanted work.. We'll see what happens.. But yeah, hes not gettn anymore work from me. noooooo... and I will be nice as hell about this and act as if nothing happened...

Oh, trust me.. he will know Ive hired someone else... Im sure he will know the day I send the new guy out... This area is all about gossips... fkn dutch PA man... even the men act like females... big living soap opera hah

All i want is a guy that knows his job, does it and keeps mouth fkn shut... Hell a mute would be cool =) :shutup::shutup::shutup: lol


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## Jayrek (Sep 6, 2008)

If he is trying to take away your nickel, fire him. Forever. Period end.

However, I personally introduce my subs and have them give their cards to the customer. I inform the customer that *"this is so and so, they will be doing this and that, and if this and that has a problem please call him." *Have customers of mine hired them and not let me know?? Of course!! But for a job that pays $100 that I was not going to be involved with. If I got my fee I would have to spend my time for $20?? I would just tell the customer to call the sub anyway if I was asked about a small improvement. If a sub tried to take over the management of a project they might not make it off the site. (If I had an excavator handy....)


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I've always done the same thing.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

It sounds like the op and his sub are in the same line of work, so that makes a difference. 

If I was working on a carpentry project, I'm not having another carpenter who helps me hand his card out. :no:


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

Well, what really set me off was the fact that he was the one that came to me and said "They wanted my card and started asking me questions"... Thats all he said... SOO.. I asumed he was probing to see what I would say... and in turn he did get an ear full... We are both contractors, he is my sub, and when on my job sites he is my employee and isnt to represent his ****... He then said "oh oh I know I know, I dont bite the hand that feeds me"...

Second job - for same customer.. I hear the customer whisper to him (as I was taking equip out to my rig "Dont forget to get me your card!"...

He didnt mention anything to me at all on the second job.. He didnt say ****... BUT, he did stay behind to "shoot the ****" with my customers... However, before I left he gave me a price for the next phase of work.. and it was out of this world high...

At that point I knew something was up. So i snooped and found **** out... and ended up on here ranting my **** hahahahaha

I think he was paranoid about stabbing me in the back initally... And hearing from other sources how hes financially under the gun "lack of work ALL SEASON" - he was trying to stack somemthing up..

At any rate, I will kick him off of any future jobs and will not be calling him back.

I think this guy might have a problem with me anyways.. Theres an age difference.. Im 35 and hes pushing 50... I dont think he likes taking orders from "in his mind" a kid.

Kind of humiliating when someone younger than you, does better work than you, faster than you, and has his **** together eh? arty:

_I hope you old timmers dont take that personal, I dont believe all old farts look down on young entrepreneurs.. _


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## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

Kuba said:


> You old timers don't take that personal, I dont think everyone thinks that way .


You have a way with words....:blink:


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

There, i edited that for you personally! :thumbsup::laughing:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

This guy is an insecure prima donna. Who knows how much trash he has talked behind your back with the customers on this and other jobs.

As far as the kid thing, I think if you are over 30, there are no more age issues in this business. I sometimes take orders from GC's that are even younger than you, and if they make sense and are respectful, I respect them back and usually wish I could go back a few years and "be" them. I am guessing that is not the issue.

This paper hanger dude is probably insecure about his future and is the type who will say and do anything to get ahead without thinking of the reprocussions. You are the better man here.

Dump him, make sure that he knows you are aware of his scheme, and move on.:thumbsup:


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

*Kind of humiliating when someone younger than you, does better work than you, faster than you, and has his **** together eh? arty:

You old timers dont take that personal, I dont think everyone thinks that way - only my sub. *

No offense taken.
I just finished a project for some young know it all, acting GC,who doesn't do anywhere near a good job.(no offense to you young guys)

There was plenty more work there to be done,but I would have felt underhanded going to HO's to get any.
Even in these scarce times,and under this particular circumstance,it just isn't right.
If you don't have any integrity with your co-workers,you won't have any with your clients,and it will eventually become evident to everyone you deal with.
He's digging his own grave,too bad it's on your dime!


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

When its all said and done and the smoke clears.. I will throw the next grenade (so to speak) :jesterr wmd lol

You cant **** with us Italian contractors and get away with it LOL... We invented the concrete soap box! hahahah.. JK for the record I would never do anything violent!! Im smarter than that - a broke nose lasts a month, a broken rep lasts forever!:thumbsup:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Kuba, it's not a non-compete agreement.

It's a sub-contractor agreement. In it you say something along the lines of:


> Communication & Notice
> All communications between Sub-contractor and Homeowner, designer or architect shall be via Rocky Mountain Bathrooms, Inc. Sub-contractor is not to solicit Contractor’s customer (homeowner) for additional work. We (Contractor) are your customer. The homeowner is our customer. Additional requests for work outside the scope of work that you have been hired for are to be referred to Contractor. Sub-contractor shall furnish Contractor with periodic progress reports oral/written as required by Contractor, including status of material, equipment and manpower.


However, the days of handshake deals are over if you expect to stop this. You have to get a signed agreement on every job. Yes it takes a little more work, but that is the price you pay.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Good post Old Fart. I agree.

What has happened sometimes on some of the remodels I have GC'd is that a sub will come to me and say that the HO asked him about doing extra work. (Specific trade like plumbing, painting, etc.) If it is unrelated to the scope of what I am doing I usually say GO FOR IT! 

It makes them more loyal subs. However if I found out that one of them was bidding work where I was the procuring cause of the lead, I would blast them off.


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

I finally get around to adding a profile pic and it isnt working - but it is on the CP page... weird..

Oh Oh, I know exactly what you're all saying, and I am very clear with anyone that works for/with me...

This guy is obviously thinking Im an idiot, and/or he is in $$ trouble and trying to rake in anything he can...

I think his priorities are foul... There is no doubt in my mind hes trying to move in on my market... THeres more, but like i said, ima wait till the smoke clears to drop those bombs... I dont know if this guy frequents this site or not :shifty: 

If he actually used some speed and shut his mouth and actually WORKED he might be worth some money... 

My bad for over paying and trusting this guy... Its not 100% his fault... 

You cannot keep a rat from taking the cheese if you leave it on the table, right?

I will ditch this a hole, hire another and then write this one off as my fault.

Good reality check in these ruff times tho, if I must say so myself....


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

haha... I have 8 jobs lined up for next spring already (not including the rest of this yrs interiors)... My sub has nada!!!

Hope he survives the winter :laughing:

 doosh


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Atta boy sport!:laughing:

Just kidding. Keep on doing what you're doing!:thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

cant have the sub soliciting work from your customers thats stealing
but you shouldnt represent the sub as your ''employee'' as you have refered to him a few times thats lying


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

ok lets get technical.. haha


No hes not an employee, but in a professional setting - in retrospect a sub is a rep of your company and should conduct him/herself accordingly...

reference of him being an employee was just my own "thing" and no I do not introduce him as an employee... Hes introduced as my Wallpaper Sub...

I prep everything - all he has to do is hang and go.... couldnt have it any easyer as a hanger!

I do it that way so that I can cut down on time (lackies dickn off with paper removal) in addition to freeing me up to bounce to the next job.

Im not going to pay a doosh 50 $ hr to take down wallpaper... Actually, i dont trust anyone to do that HAHA... there, i said it


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

You pay them by the hour?


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

Could be true. My Grandpa started his own company earlier than later because of this same issue. The builder was happy of how my Grandpa handled the crew and how well the workmanship was on "His" jobs. My Grandpa was a country boy with a booming laugh and the ability to make everyone like him. The builder told him if he went into business that he would hire my Grandpa and fire his boss. One week later Papa was a paint contractor and the other guy had to move on over. It does suck, but it happens all over. Same goes for painters. He trained many painters that started their own company as did his Dad in his own paint company. 

His Dad trained this guy up and he started this company.

http://floridapaintco.com/default.htm


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> You pay them by the hour?


Hangers in my area refuse to be paid by the roll.. They all have the same excuse "Every room is different and cut outs take more time"

If you dont pay them by the hr, then you're at the mercy of them giving you a whole high estiamte. That also means they want to go out and look at every job before hand etc... waist of everyones time and money...

Dont know why paper hangers think their something special... Prep and Paper removal takes more skill than hanging it. but whateva

Its just funny to me that the hangers in my area think they're worth as much as a business lawyer... 100$ hr... HAHAHA... I think Ive been generous paying 40- 50...

I will just train a kid to do it, paper isnt hard if you KNOW how =)... Im sure some kid would appreciate having a job :thumbsup:


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