# Kreg for Stairs and stringer fastening



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

A Builder friend of mine was asking me if I ever heard of a stair stringer made from 5/4" lumber and treads/risers fastened with Kregs. 8' span, no center stringer. looks very nice but a bit light on structure. Inspector said it looks suspect.

Any one ever see this? would you trust it?


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Nope. Would not use Biscuits either.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Pearce Services said:


> A Builder friend of mine was asking me if I ever heard of a stair stringer made from 5/4" lumber and treads/risers fastened with Kregs. 8' span, no center stringer. looks very nice but a bit light on structure. Inspector said it looks suspect.
> 
> Any one ever see this? would you trust it?


So relying entirely on screws to hold up the treads? :no::no:


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Leo G said:


> So relying entirely on screws to hold up the treads? :no::no:


They also glued them, but the strange thing is that the treads are glued and screwed up from under the stringer, not bearing on the stringer at all.

I was just thinking maybe someone saw this before and there is an actual way to make this proper, Not that I really expected any positive take on this.

Thanks


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

No matter how you slice it, a 5/4 tread spanning 8 feet is gonna sag.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Supported by a 7" riser it won't sag that much. If it's pocket screwed into the stringer with no other support than glue, it will eventually fail.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Leo G said:


> Supported by a 7" riser it won't sag that much. If it's pocket screwed into the stringer with no other support than glue, it will eventually fail.


But even a little sag is gonna stress out those screws. The back of the tread is gonna be attached to the riser also, just thinking about the stress on the 1/2" or so bottom of the riser attachment makes me cringe.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Am I reading this right? A tread, spanning 8'?

There is a riser. But come on 

Surely I'm misunderstanding. 


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

builditguy said:


> Am I reading this right? A tread, spanning 8'?
> 
> There is a riser. But come on
> 
> ...


stringer spanning 8' from floor above to a landing, but the tread is spanning 36" from stringer to stringer


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

A stringer made from 5/4 doesn't have the modulus of elasticity to resist the force or tension applied to it. In plain English...fail


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I'd say 95% of stringers are made from 5/4 or less.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Pearce Services said:


> would you trust it?


It depends on who built it.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

only place ive seen pocket screws used on a set of stairs in regards to a riser is to fasten the ends of the riser into the skirt board to keep that joint tight


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Leo G said:


> I'd say 95% of stringers are made from 5/4 or less.


Certainly where we live they are. But they are also nailed into every stud on the way up, so the span really isn't an issue.


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## bcook19791 (Aug 24, 2016)

I've never built a stringer out of anything but a 2X12


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

bcook19791 said:


> I've never built a stringer out of anything but a 2X12


The only place I've ever seen a 2x12 stringer for an interior set of finished stairs is on the internet. I didn't even realized that people built stairs out of framing lumber and then nailed finished treads to the top of them.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Just the basement stairs, but no finished treads, more 2x stock.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

EricBrancard said:


> The only place I've ever seen a 2x12 stringer for an interior set of finished stairs is on the internet. I didn't even realized that people built stairs out of framing lumber and then nailed finished treads to the top of them.


This is almost shocking to me. I've framed hundreds of sets of stairs with 2x12s. I'm trying to recall the last time I've demoed or even seen a 5/4 staircase, can't think of even one. 

The shocking part is we live in adjoining states. We're not talking different build practices between Alaska and Louisiana.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

MattK said:


> This is almost shocking to me. I've framed hundreds of sets of stairs with 2x12s. I'm trying to recall the last time I've demoed or even seen a 5/4 staircase, can't think of even one.
> 
> The shocking part is we live in adjoining states. We're not talking different build practices between Alaska and Louisiana.


I normally don't even see 5/4. It's usually 1x poplar with the treads and risers routered in and then wedges are glued in underneath to tighten everything up.

Basically everything around here is done like this:









That's just the first picture I found on google. I'd have to see if I have actual pictures from jobs.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Leo G said:


> Just the basement stairs, but no finished treads, more 2x stock.


We don't even do that for basement stairs anymore. Drop in pine staircase built the same way as the rest of them except with 5/4" stringers.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

EricBrancard said:


> I normally don't even see 5/4. It's usually 1x poplar with the treads and risers routered in and then wedges are glued in underneath to tighten everything up.
> 
> Basically everything around here is done like this:
> 
> ...


So the poplar doubles as the skirt board as well. Also, this system doesn't allow for a middle stringer. In Connecticut, do they ever require the 3rd in a 3' staircase?

Do you also use 5/4 or 1x stock on exteriors as well?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

MattK said:


> So the poplar doubles as the skirt board as well. Also, this system doesn't allow for a middle stringer. In Connecticut, do they ever require the 3rd in a 3' staircase?
> 
> Do you also use 5/4 or 1x stock on exteriors as well?


The stringer is the skirt board. No middle stringer required. I've seen 42" and wider done like this. They are rock solid.

Here's how it goes. When the house is being framed, the stair guy will come out and mark header locations, landing heights, angle walls and blocking. They then manufacture all the parts in the shop and after drywall they come out to the site and install. 

By exteriors, do you mean deck stairs? If so, those are just done with 2x12s.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

It's like they think this is crazy. It's the way it's been done for decades. Can't imagine using 2x stock to make a finished staircase.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

From the pic you can tell the stringer is the skirt. For exteriors, I did mean decking or porch stairs.

Leo, don't think you guys are crazy just surprised things can be different in such close proximity. I'm sure this is a classic case of alternate build paths achieving the same desired result.


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## bcook19791 (Aug 24, 2016)

EricBrancard said:


> I normally don't even see 5/4. It's usually 1x poplar with the treads and risers routered in and then wedges are glued in underneath to tighten everything up.
> 
> Basically everything around here is done like this:
> 
> ...


That is a cool way of doing the stairs. A cool thing about this forum is learning how things are done in different parts of the country. Where I'm from we cut stringers out for 2X12's (usually three stringers) and put a skirt board on the end if needed. (usually the treads but to a finished drywalled wall. I like your Idea and will have to try it sometime.


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## bcook19791 (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm assuming you make a jig to plow your dados? Does one have to be made for each set of stairs. I'm really interested in learning more about your way of building stairs.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

bcook19791 said:


> I'm assuming you make a jig to plow your dados? Does one have to be made for each set of stairs. I'm really interested in learning more about your way of building stairs.


I certainly can't take credit for that style of stair building. It was being done that way before I was born. I don't personally do stairs (interior stairs anyways), I sub it out to stair builders. There are jigs you can get for doing it that way, but I think most of the bigger shops use some sort of automated router to knock out the stringers.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

replaced this tread from an 1890's house..5/4 stringers


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## keith mathewson (Nov 25, 2007)

A "housed stringer" search of Youtube will show a vast difference in regional approaches.

Steve Guenzel has a video up and does a good business doing cnc routed housed stairs in Philadelphia. In my area he would starve, nearly all are cut 2x12's.


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## Justin Huisenga (Apr 10, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> The stringer is the skirt board. No middle stringer required. I've seen 42" and wider done like this. They are rock solid.
> 
> Here's how it goes. When the house is being framed, the stair guy will come out and mark header locations, landing heights, angle walls and blocking. They then manufacture all the parts in the shop and after drywall they come out to the site and install.
> 
> By exteriors, do you mean deck stairs? If so, those are just done with 2x12s.


Common here too. Simple set get walk through the front door already assembled and dropped in. More complicated ones get pieced in from shop fabricated parts. 

In addition to the routed stringers there's usually a tongue cut in the back of the tread that slips into a dado in the lower face of the riser and a tongue at the top of the riser that slips into a dado at the nose of the tread. The strength is all in the interlocking joinery.

The only failures I've ever seen are from the old glue drying out and the wedges falling out of the housed pockets. Modern glue pretty much solve that problem.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Leo G said:


> I'd say 95% of stringers are made from 5/4 or less.


OK right. I was assuming the OP meant exterior stairs. Interior finish goods is another matter. After reading this thread Dadoed staircases are entirely different....those are left to you purest finish chippy's 

Since they are Dadoed, the finished look is way tighter. I redact and bow to all you east coast old world craftsman


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I do work for a 3rd generation stair builder once in a while. I never gave much though about how far the 5/4 tread, 1x riser can span I mentally would have thought 5-6. Specially since the code requires 300# / SI that needs to be stiff.

Out of curiosity Im going to ask him next time I see him.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Huh. And here i thought that was just a specialty thing. I didnt realize you guys out east did every stairway that way.

I think a few years ago wallmax put up a video on how to frame stairs that demonstrated the way stairs were done around here in the west.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I don't think I have ever seen a shop fabricated set of stairs in my area. All are built from 2x stringers. I would like to see the jig used to route the shop fabbed units. It has to have some adjustability for different rise/run configuration.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I haven't seen a real stair jig in some time now. I don't think you can buy them anymore. I've seen some newer fangled ones, but not the old cast iron type. Now a lot of stair shops have a stringer CNC.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I figured most are done on cnc now. I have done a few finished wood stairs off of 2x stringers. Certainly not a fast process bit still a very solid way to build them.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

We are 90% housed stringers. My old timer has all of the jigs hanging on the wall. 


The amount a saw dust in that building is incredible. The FD must not pop in.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

There are dedicated machines just for routing the stringers. Some are a bit too long for the bed of a cnc. 

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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)




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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Here is one. 

http://www.irsauctions.com/popups/b...ction=S7PWGU16XQRA23LAR2QYS58EVZRY0D&id=20947

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