# Stone Over Brick exterior



## SelectDecks

When applying stone veneer over brick (exterior of the home) can you simply scratch coat and go?? I know with block if it's been painted, sealed, etc we have covered in tyvex, then mesh, scratch coat, then stone.

This brick is clean/untreated in any way - what about cement board over the brick before the stone?

thanks for the help


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## dakzaag

If the brick is not painted or treated then you can stick the stone directly to it. You could screw wire mesh on if you wanted to be absolutely sure, but it would be overkill.


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## dom-mas

So long as the brick is sound nothing else is necessary.


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## stonecutter

Like the others said..no paint,sealer or bad brick. I'm doing a remodel on a fireplace right now that had horrible stonework that was stuck to the old brick. They used wire lath and anchored it to the brick. It was tough getting it off...if your stone is thin then a mechanical bond will be a good idea.

Think about using a acrylic additive to your scratch coat too.


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## Diamond D.

:rockon:

D.


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## aureliconstruct

pressure wash before then go for it.


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## NYCB

Personally I would bid it for anchoring lath. But I tend to overkill things.


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## JBM

Take the brick down and do a 4" stone veneer imo. It will look fudged around the doors and windows.


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## Tom Struble

i heard you had to lick it before you stick it:blink:


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## NYCB

JBM said:


> Take the brick down and do a 4" stone veneer imo. It will look fudged around the doors and windows.


Good point, for some reason in my head I was thinking of of a structural brick building.


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## Diamond D.

JBM said:


> Take the brick down and do a 4" stone veneer imo. It will look fudged around the doors and windows.


I can only guess that taking out the brick is not in the budget.

Brick mold and a good job should take the fudge off the doors and windows.

JMO,
D.


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## TheItalian204

Man why would anybody want lick and stick over brick :blink:

anyway you can definetly get away with it...appearantly masonry subtrades require only scratch coat over the top.

As above mentioned gentlemen,I would pressure wash,check for abscence of some DIY sealer,paint and point the loose joints if those exist.

Check manufacturer guide not to void the warranty if "stone" is man made.

If you budgeted, for peace of your mind use wire lath..

And use wire lath if its natural stone...its heavier and you dont want to take chances.


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## Tscarborough

The warranty on faux stone simply says the stone will not spontaneously crumble to dust within xx years.


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## NYCB

Tscarborough said:


> The warranty on faux stone simply says the stone will not spontaneously crumble to dust within xx years.


Just xx + 1 right :laughing:


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## TheItalian204

Tscarborough said:


> The warranty on faux stone simply says the stone will not spontaneously crumble to dust within xx years.


Which faux stone were you installing?

As matter of fact I can probably dissolve a piece of cultured stone in glass of cola overnight(ok,maybe over two)

But does that mean that OP has to void customer's warranty?


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## Tscarborough

Any issue he will have will not be covered by the warranty. They do not warrant that the stones will adhere, they do not warrant anything to do with water penetration, they do not, in fact, warrant anything other than the piece of concrete will remain a piece of concrete.

Manufacturers installation instructions are good and should be followed for the conditions under which they provide them. Just do not think that doing so provides any type of warranty.


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## TheItalian204

Tscarborough said:


> Manufacturers installation instructions are good and should be followed for the conditions under which they provide them. Just do not think that doing so provides any type of warranty.


Hm thats weird...I do agree with you that companies like to void ppl's warranties,however I did several installation where companies actually warrantied work/material and would provide free re-installation and material if those failed...

I happened to have several accounts with some cultured stone vendors around Winnipeg and I do install on fairly big scale for them,maybe thats why.

Either way..you gonna try that trick with glass of coke and piece of concrete?:laughing:


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## TheItalian204

And btw I am still wondering what "stone veneer" OP is talking about...clarification on whether he is talking about cultured stone or natural stone would be appreciated.

Plus I didnt know tyvek is appropriate for installation any sorts of masonry...even fake ones.


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## Tscarborough

Good thinset manufacturers will warranty pop-off, but if it comes from the stone manufacturer, you better read the small print.


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## Tscarborough

"I did several installation where companies actually warrantied work/material and would provide free re-installation and material if those failed"

Sorry, but you are mistaken if you think a manufacturer is going to warrant your work. Even if you are a certified installer, they will not guarantee your work.


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## TheItalian204

Tscarborough said:


> "I did several installation where companies actually warrantied work/material and would provide free re-installation and material if those failed"
> 
> Sorry, but you are mistaken if you think a manufacturer is going to warrant your work. Even if you are a certified installer, they will not guarantee your work.


Well truth is this is how they advertise it to customer...every masonry vendor here that sells faux stone advertises use of particular faux stone installers in area(they usually have a ready list).

Truth is they feed most of decent masons/brickies around here work year around and we kickback percent.

i warranty my own work so I am not really concerned about their warranties but if what you are saying is true(and i have no reason to doubt you) then I must say vendors are running sham.


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## Tscarborough

It is not a scam, simply read the warranty. They warrant that the chunk of cement will remain a chunk of cement. No more, no less, and all they are in reality responsible for.


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## TheItalian204

Tscarborough said:


> It is not a scam, simply read the warranty. They warrant that the chunk of cement will remain a chunk of cement. No more, no less, and all they are in reality responsible for.


True enough...now do they warrant that that particular chunk of cement will stay chunk of cement if you step away from their specificated installations...thats the question.


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## Tscarborough

Under what conditions would a chunk of concrete not remain a chunk of concrete?


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## TheItalian204

Tscarborough said:


> Under what conditions would a chunk of concrete not remain a chunk of concrete?


As I said...glass of coke and a piece of 3.50 a sq/ft cultured crap...tell me what happens...:laughing:

I can refer you to gentleman with 20 years of experience who left one of those in water barrel for 15 days...in period of time this concrete turned into dust.

All I am saying,if you are unlucky enough to come across defective batch after installing 100.000 stones your way and not by specification,you are liable for what will happen if that batch goes south after you installed it.

Manufacturer is not going to warrant chunk of concrete that you didnt install their way even if they knew its defective...nobody wants to pay.


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## Diamond D.

Tscarborough said:


> Under what conditions would a chunk of concrete not remain a chunk of concrete?


Sounds like, a glass of_ Coke_! :whistling:

D.


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## TheItalian204

Diamond D. said:


> Sounds like, a glass of_ Coke_! :whistling:
> 
> D.


There is another example mentioned above...simple element-water.

Sure you can argue that defects like those are rare but do they take away from your liability? They dont.

So you can go all life without getting a defect like that or you can get 3 of them.

I can refer you to gentleman you can email and ask what happened to him.

Exactly what I described...stone faded and started washing away couple of months after installation..He recieved material through vendor and known cultured stone producer that I am not going to mention under threat of this being reviwed over internet.

They voided his warranty because it was not installed by producer's specifications and he had to buy 2400 sq ft out of his own pocket...I dont think I would want to eat 50k.


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## Diamond D.

TheItalian204 said:


> Plus I didnt know tyvek is appropriate for installation any sorts of masonry...even fake ones.


I do believe,Tyvek, does make a product suitable for use with masonry.

But, only an idiot would use it between brick and scratch coat, wire or not.

JMO,
D.


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## TheItalian204

Diamond D. said:


> I do believe,Tyvek, does make a product suitable for use with masonry.
> 
> But, only an idiot would use it between brick and scratch coat, wire or not.
> 
> JMO,
> D.


Isnt it Typar that is appearantly appropriate?...

I would gamble on it being appropriate...with two layers of building felt over the top...


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## Tscarborough

As I said, they do not warrant the installation. Even if you follow their installation recommendations 100% and provide 100% perfect workmanship, they do not warrant that, and so will not provide for replacement. If they did, then they admit that they provided defective material and they will warrant that. I have seen some ugly faux, but very little to none that was inherently defective.


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## stonecutter

this thread is going to get ugly if wall ties are brought into the mix...:laughing:


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## TheItalian204

stonecutter said:


> this thread is going to get ugly if wall ties are brought into the mix...:laughing:


Esp if OP decides to claim he needs to use ties...well at least it will give us idea whether its real stone or cultured...lol


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## stonecutter

TheItalian204 said:


> Esp if OP decides to claim he needs to use ties...well at least it will give us idea whether its real stone or cultured...lol


I think you guys scared him off and he is now thinking about vinyl siding.


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## TheItalian204

stonecutter said:


> I think you guys scared him off and he is now thinking about vinyl siding.


No,OP,lol,come back...ok,at least refer yourself to BS 8298 as of 94 Design of stone cladding lol...

Thats if it natural stone it is :laughing:


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## Tom Struble

stonecutter said:


> I think you guys scared him off and he is now thinking about vinyl siding.


can you give him my number if he comes back?..kickbacks to everyone:thumbup:


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## Stone

> I have seen some ugly faux, but very little to none that was inherently defective.


I just looked at a 800 square foot manufactured stone job where the product was failing. I know the original installer and he does decent work and has been at it for 30 years. This was a cheap stone and it is falling apart after 3 years. The company's insurance policy (the company is apparently out of business now) is apparently going to pay for labor and materials to tear down and redo with another brand of stone. I bid it but I am not expecting this to turn into a real job soon because the lawyers are just now starting to get involved.


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## dom-mas

What products are you guy buying for $3.50/sqft. The cheapest I've seen is a bit under $5/sqft and it is interior only. oh and it is ugly although it does follow the latest weird pro-fit type design that lots of people are going for. Cultured stone and eldorado stone go for about $10sqft here.


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## TheItalian204

dom-mas said:


> What products are you guy buying for $3.50/sqft. The cheapest I've seen is a bit under $5/sqft and it is interior only. oh and it is ugly although it does follow the latest weird pro-fit type design that lots of people are going for. Cultured stone and eldorado stone go for about $10sqft here.


Eldorado is about 12 here...

I get contractor discount on some of exterior stuff...as cheap as 3.50 a sq ft...not the greatest brand but some people like it.


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## dom-mas

Yeah I get contractor discount too but nothings that cheap. Local company? I see on Kijiji that there's one around here that is advertising for reps/installers. I guess you buy into the company and sell/install. Not my cup of tea but there's some guys here who advertise as thin veneer only, Don't touch anything else.


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## TheItalian204

dom-mas said:


> Yeah I get contractor discount too but nothings that cheap. Local company? I see on Kijiji that there's one around here that is advertising for reps/installers. I guess you buy into the company and sell/install. Not my cup of tea but there's some guys here who advertise as thin veneer only, Don't touch anything else.


If you want I can ship some to Ottawa :laughing:..its ugly though..squares too...


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