# fish eyes from water in air line. now what?



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I finished these doors and on my very last coat I was spraying on humid day and I ended up with fish eye looking light spots. I believe it was from water and oil mixture in the air line.

I need to fix it what do you recommend. Right now I am planning on trying to sand and re spray??????

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## BarryE (Dec 12, 2009)

latex? oil? Lacquer? How many coats? time between the last 2 coats

Fisheye is caused by silicone, wax, grease contamination. 

Could be pinholing or micro bubbles, could be your gun spitting... can't see much from your pics

either way the remedy is to sand down and repaint


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

If it was caused by silicone, you'll probably have to add fisheye remover to your topcaot. Fish eyes usually caused by silicone repelling the liquid around it. The solution is to add silicone to the finish to equalize the surface tension while wet. That's pretty much what fish eye remover is. Once a surface is contaminated, it's near impossible to remove the silicone completely, so the only fix is to add silicone to the finish.
Joe


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I don't know what you have there for equipment, but do you have a water separator there plugged in?

I had some minor issues with water droplets coming through and it was just laziness on my end that I didn't drain the water out of the reservoir. They look a little like fisheye, so maybe that is the case.

I actually have two of the air line filters now. First one to get most of the water and second to get the rest. Better safe than sorry.


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

That looks really strange, almost like an intended pattern in those pics. Maybe its the camera. 

Was that a clear that did that? 

I run a three stage dessicant to ensure clean air in the shop.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

BarryE said:


> latex? oil? Lacquer? How many coats? time between the last 2 coats
> 
> Fisheye is caused by silicone, wax, grease contamination.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response.

I'm guessing the cause is some oil from the compressor mixed with the water in the line. I'm not familiar with where silicone would come from?

What is pinholing or micro bubbles?

When you say sand down, do you mean just sand the clear topcoat or the whole thing down to the paint? (I was on my second coat and the first coat was fairly thick.)


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

JHC said:


> That looks really strange, almost like an intended pattern in those pics. Maybe its the camera.
> 
> Was that a clear that did that?
> 
> I run a three stage dessicant to ensure clean air in the shop.


You can't see the fish eyes in these pictures. It is bad when you have just the right light. You have to be looking across them with the light just right. Nevertheless, they aint gonna pass.

I was using a Ace brand poly-finish, clear, water based. My paint was a rustoleum flat black.

Please keep the thoughts coming guys. I'm 23 and need to learn more so this kind of stuff doesn't happen again. I really don't want to have to start over.


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## BarryE (Dec 12, 2009)

Spencer said:


> ...When you say sand down, do you mean just sand the clear topcoat or the whole thing down to the paint? (I was on my second coat and the first coat was fairly thick.)


You need to sand far enough to level the dimples.

pinholing is tiny holes in the finish, usually the result of trapped solvents, air or moisture while drying.




Spencer said:


> ...I was using a Ace brand poly-finish, clear, water based. My paint was a rustoleum flat black.


That's why I don't think it's fisheye. Is the rustoleum water based also?

The temptation when doors are laying flat is to load on the material while spraying. You said you had a thick 1st coat (I assume you mean the 1st clearcoat) and was applying the 2nd coat. 

Either the rustoleum was oil based and still curing when you applied the waterbased top coats causing the solvents to push up while trying to evaporate causing "pin holes"

or the 1st clearcoat was to thick and when the 2nd was applied the 1st coat wasn't cured enough. The gas bubbles try to escape by pushing up small “blisters”in the wet 
topcoat

Either way you need to level the imperfections and recoat. Hopefully you won't have to get into the color coat.

I'm curious what led to your choice of using rustoleum and Ace poly?


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Barry is dead on!:thumbsup:

Putting water based over oil base is a tricky deal any time. 
If you do it, you have to be sure all the solvents have evaporated off. Rustoleum makes good products, but is notorious for drying very slow. 

Like I said, Barry has the whole scenario right.
Joe


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

BarryE said:


> You need to sand far enough to level the dimples.
> 
> pinholing is tiny holes in the finish, usually the result of trapped solvents, air or moisture while drying.
> 
> ...


Your experience shows through your posts and I really appreaciate that you take the time to share what you know. You just gave me a ton of good info.

The rustoleum is oil based. Interestingly I sprayed the backs first. After the first coat they where fairly rough with little dimples I attributed this to not having them clean enough but looking back it could well have been that they had not fully cured. I lightly sanded and applied the second coat and they turned out fine. By the time I got around to the fronts the paint was probably fully cured.

You are also right about the temptation to lay it on thick being that I was spraying flat. I was probably putting it on to thick and need to dial down the volume to make sure the spray is gettin broken up good enough. 

I was spraying it thick enough that that you could see the white/milky color well. Does that sound to thick?

It was not my decision on what paint/clearcoat to use. I am the millman at a lumber yard and am following the lead of the owner who had a lot of years experience custom remodel work before he bought the business. We use what we stock in the store as that is what we can make money on from the savings. Would you have went a different route?


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## artiospainting (Mar 16, 2011)

LET DRY 72 hours SAND AND PAINT the water may leave a dimple. You mite end up sanding it all off. I dont see were the oil could come from. Unless you used a air sprayer and the oil was in the air compressor that's yously water.


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

What are you applying your finish with? I mean your whole set up?

Waterborne poly is a PITA to work with as any pro will tell you. Good thing is it cures enough to sand to a powder in a few hrs.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm using air compressor at anywhere from 20-40psi with a devilish sprayed. Is this a no no?????


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Sanded them down with 400 and re sprayed. Switched over to zar. I like it a lot better. No spots and a duller finish which I like.

Oh, and i cleared out my lines and compressor first


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