# Cinder block walls (footings?)



## Justin Urias (Aug 27, 2013)

I saw a picture on line of a cinder block wall being built

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...QpSrkM&ei=xgscUsLYAcP6qgHr5oD4BQ&ved=0CAEQsCU

Does this wall not have a footing? Were cinder block foundations built back in the 30s, 40s, 50s that didn't have footings?

Just curious


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Yep they were.

Did a two story addition at my brothers house with full basement and when we excavated we found 12" cinder block laid right on hard clay. Once they came out of the ground they switched over to 8" and created a nice place to put your beer whilst shooting pool :thumbsup:

No settlement or cracks were apparent and the house was built in 1920,...full two story with large attic


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

BTW. I believe that wall in your pic has a footing. Your just seeing droppings all over it.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

superseal said:


> BTW. I believe that wall in your pic has a footing. Your just seeing droppings all over it.


That's what it looks like to me

And it's a c.m.u. (concrete masonry units) not cinder blocks.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

and before concrete block was available, brick were laid right on the clay. Rubble foundations are common as well. That may be a northern european thing. They would just stack up a bunch of rocks and put a sill plate on top and build something.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

cleveman said:


> Rubble foundations are common as well. That may be a northern european thing. They would just stack up a bunch of rocks and put a sill plate on top and build something.


I work on more houses with stone foundations then cmu. Usually an 8x8 sill plate that doubles for a rim joist.


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

It is sitting on a trench footing as mentioned earlier.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> That's what it looks like to me
> 
> *And it's a c.m.u.* (concrete masonry units) not cinder blocks.


Obviously you don't go back to far do ya? Did you ever see a real cinder block?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

superseal said:


> Obviously you don't go back to far do ya? Did you ever see a real cinder block?


No I don't, yes I have, and did you click the link. Those are cmus


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I was referring to the "cinderblock" foundation from 1920 we underpinned


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

superseal said:


> I was referring to the "cinderblock" foundation from 1920 we underpinned


I was referring to the op :laughing:


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The one in the op looks like it done well. It is probably for a split entry home with 4' of masonry and floating floor slab inside.

The 10" block are very unusual since they are really not much cheaper and the entire thing could have been done with 8" block, since the loads from a two story (actually 1 1/2) home is low. They had all the block laid with the mortar bed on the top and used fill top block for the top course and used 10" L corners for a good corner.

I would guess the footings are 20"x8" since those are very common for both 8" and 12" basements. The mortar droppings and cutting are always there, but I knew a few contractors that spread a little sand on the outside top of the footings after the first course was laid in order to be easier to clean in case someone wanted access for some waterproofing a little later. It looks like it was done by a contractor that did it his way, never had to quote a basement by itself and put in a basement for floor plans given to him.


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## jar546 (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm in the probably a trench footing club of opinions.


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

I'd bet my left nut that its' sitting on a trench footing, at least it sure looks like it is.

I've never seen caps here with handholds before. One part of me thinks it would be a good idea, but the other part thinks I spend way too much time and mud trying to butter those handholds shut all the time........:laughing:


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The handholds were put there for handling/wrestling the heavy block into place. Many block producers do not like to make them. Very few are mudded at the handhold.

The solid top portion (usually 1"-2" thick) is there to close off the core area and meet some code requirements. - Mainly, they keep the debris out for the contractors (dirt, scraps and beer cans) and from kids (cans, rocks, etc.) at night. Especially important if the footing is wanted to be kept clean for control of the drainage below the interior slab elevation.

Because off the odd 10" wall, I first though of WI as the location, but few WI block are quite as light as the photo. All "L" corners are tough to make square, level and not warped because of the warping during curing (not symmetrical).


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

concretemasonry said:


> The handholds were put there for handling/wrestling the heavy block into place. Many block producers do not like to make them. Very few are mudded at the handhold.
> 
> The solid top portion (usually 1"-2" thick) is there to close off the core area and meet some code requirements. - Mainly, they keep the debris out for the contractors (dirt, scraps and beer cans) and from kids (cans, rocks, etc.) at night. Especially important if the footing is wanted to be kept clean for control of the drainage below the interior slab elevation.
> 
> ...


Actually, the OS corners look very similar to what we use here, but the stretchers look much heavier, almost like 2 hour block...........

We do use quite a few 10" here, mostly for 11 courses or less, as they're easier to keep from racking than 8", and we can pour less pilasters per code with 10's. We also use them in certain applications where we need a 2" slab ledge on the interior, a 2" stoop ledge on the exterior, and a 6" block for the stud wall in the middle, just as an example.........


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The blocks in the photo was made with a mold that incorporated a mortar bed on the face shells and a "hand-hold" on the webs. It does not add much to the weight and helps in the handling of the block. Also less mortar slop with thinner face shells.

Those block are laid "upside down" from the way they are made, so you do not see any core block marks at the webs.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Always enjoyable laying block in a trench like that.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The small deep trenches can be a mess.

You sure have to be quick and get the excavation, footings and a couple courses of block in a day or two if there is rain possible.- Same speed for winter construction where you can use the heat Mother Nature stores in the ground.


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## Carpetecht (Jul 11, 2021)

Justin Urias said:


> I saw a picture on line of a cinder block wall being built
> 
> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/commonwealth_brick/4675787410/&h=0&w=0&sz=1&tbnid=CoaY9asChfq9iM&tbnh=194&tbnw=259&zoom=1&docid=oK0fclfZQpSrkM&ei=xgscUsLYAcP6qgHr5oD4BQ&ved=0CAEQsCU
> 
> ...


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