# Best mud for patches?



## LVMONT (Dec 24, 2018)

I'm still new to doing patches and skimming. I did a 6x6 wall patch with 20min hot mud. I hate hot mud because it dries out way too quick while I'm patching. I went out and bought West Pac, all purpose joint compound. I feel like I bought the wrong one and should of bought the green lid. Is the red top good for skimming and patch repairs with mesh? Or Is it better to go out and buy the green lid?


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

No you got the right one. all purpose joint compound is what you want for a basic repair.
20min mud is not easy to use.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

LVMONT said:


> I'm still new to doing patches and skimming. I did a 6x6 wall patch with 20min hot mud. I hate hot mud because it dries out way too quick while I'm patching. I went out and bought West Pac, all purpose joint compound. I feel like I bought the wrong one and should of bought the green lid. Is the red top good for skimming and patch repairs with mesh? Or Is it better to go out and buy the green lid?


After a few more under your belt, you'll want the hot mud. 20 min is plenty. fibafuse tape is good stuff.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

Try 40 or 90 minute to give you more time before it gets too hard to float. After more experience you'll love the 20 for patch work.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

20 minute can be tough. Sometimes it takes 20 minutes. Sometimes it takes 5.

We use the 45 minute. Gives us a little more time. After you have it where you want it, put a fan on it. Speeds it up a lot.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

builditguy said:


> 20 minute can be tough. Sometimes it takes 20 minutes. Sometimes it takes 5.
> 
> We use the 45 minute. Gives us a little more time. After you have it where you want it, put a fan on it. Speeds it up a lot.


in a heat wave it really kicks off quick. I never buy 20 min anymore. We just use 45 min only. I rather wait the extra 25 min than have the stress of mudding with like a madman. 

I also recall hearing that taping with 20 min can cause failure in adhesion of the paper. No call backs yet... 

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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

No one carries a bag of 5 minute any more?


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

All the real men are dead.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

From the guy that named himself Metro.. haha. 

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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

SmallTownGuy said:


> No one carries a bag of 5 minute any more?


I do guess that makes me a real man.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

You might not have used enough water if your 20 minute is going off too soon. :thumbsup:

20 minute should be fine for a 6x6 . Inches, right?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> You might not have used enough water if your 20 minute is going off too soon. :thumbsup:
> 
> 20 minute should be fine for a 6x6 . Inches, right?


X2. Cold water can also help.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I had trouble w/ 20min when first starting off, it just takes practice to move quickly. The 45min will give you that extra time so you're not rushing. Hopefully you have the paper/mesh ready before you mix the mud.


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## Idothat (May 19, 2018)

I use 90 min almost exclusively for hot mud . It gives enough time for me to mix, apply , and most importantly , time to clean tools . I usually don’t have just one small patch at a time . 

20 min can be handy for small patch jobs that need to be done quickly 
5 min ...no way


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

One thing about hot mud is it only has shelf life of 6 months. I don't do enough small patches to use a whole bag in year. 
Hit that 45min with a heat gun or heater and it turns in to 5 min mud. 
My method...
tape with yellow taping mud. No need to let it dry. Top coat with thick 45 min and heater. Once it firms up (not 100% dry) then top coat with green classic finish. I don't need to wait for it to dry and sand. I get it so smooth on my final coat no need. About a half hour total not including set up clean up. 
Could just use hot mud for it all but where's the fun in that. 
Any one talk to blacktop lately?

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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

i keep 5 min in the truck for single patches .if i am doing a wall i will get 20 or 45 .often follow up with a thin coat of regular mud ,depends . hot mud is faster to work with ,and stronger . doesn't sand well but it is hard .sticks well for me .i find the cure time is relative . sometimes cannot get it out of the pan fast enough sometimes it takes seemly forever .OP -you will learn how to use it .do it in thin layers . 

ever use one of thesehttps://www.warehousebay.com/Butt-Taper-Kit/productinfo/36-BUTTAPE/ .it works but i have issues with spraying the water ,runs onto the floor .often i do not want water on the floor .https://www.amazon.com/Mud-More-Mix...rds=drywall+mixer&qid=1563128109&s=hi&sr=1-11 .picked up one of these. makes a perfect mix .though if doing alot of patching it is a pain in the ass to keep cleaning between mixes .just is not getting used much yet .


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## A2Zcontracting (Jun 15, 2019)

All depends on the size of your patches and the schedule you are working with. Taping i always use hot mud and paper tape for anything bigger than small patches (outlet holes and such). If a patch needs less than a full pan to fill it then 5 or 20 minute will let you tape and skim a second coat in under an hour. Also, hot mud doesnt shrink so its much better for backfill and taping. If its a larger job with lots of scattered patches or large patches then 40 minute is good and easier to work with and do second coat. Dont be afraid to water down the mud a bit for your skim coats. Also, keep in mind that if you are using the same bucket of water to mix and clean your pan and tools then that dirty water that has a bit of hot mud in it is gonna start speeding up the set time on later batches of mud. After a few pans your 20 minute mud is gonna be 10 minute!

Also, having a good little mud mixer that fits inside your pan can really help speed things up when youre mixing alot of hot mud. Quickly mixes to a smooth consistency without wasting time and energy. I also like to mix a small bucket of 45 or 90 minute to skim a large area of patches with a few pans worth of mud at once.

Only thing i hate using hot mud for is top coats and texture. I dont know why it says "easy sand" on the bag cuz it definitely doesnt sand easily! Only advantage is it can be wetsanded or sponge sanded same day which works when you have small patches that you want completely done same day or you are doing a hand texture. Otherwise, i will do my final topcoat at the end of the first day with TnT and leave a fan on it so the next day i can roll in, do a light sand and spray texture. 

If you have plenty of time on a job red dot will do pretty much everything from tape to texture, just keep watering it down as you go and it will spread smoother for skim and topcoats. I always keep hot mud, all purpose and/or TnT and paper tape around and do a ton of patches with them, ussually on a pretty tight schedule. I find mesh tape to be too lazy, too bumpy and not as strong. At least with paper tape even if you sand all the way down to the tape it wont ruin a patch.

What exactly are you ussually coming across? Just 1 or 2 little patches? Like old outlet holes or recessed medicine cabinet holes and mirror mastic damage? Or jobs where you are putting a couple sheets of new drywall at a time?

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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

A2Zcontracting said:


> All depends on the size of your patches and the schedule you are working with. Taping i always use hot mud and paper tape for anything bigger than small patches (outlet holes and such). If a patch needs less than a full pan to fill it then 5 or 20 minute will let you tape and skim a second coat in under an hour. Also, hot mud doesnt shrink so its much better for backfill and taping. If its a larger job with lots of scattered patches or large patches then 40 minute is good and easier to work with and do second coat. Dont be afraid to water down the mud a bit for your skim coats. Also, keep in mind that if you are using the same bucket of water to mix and clean your pan and tools then that dirty water that has a bit of hot mud in it is gonna start speeding up the set time on later batches of mud. After a few pans your 20 minute mud is gonna be 10 minute!
> 
> Also, having a good little mud mixer that fits inside your pan can really help speed things up when youre mixing alot of hot mud. Quickly mixes to a smooth consistency without wasting time and energy. I also like to mix a small bucket of 45 or 90 minute to skim a large area of patches with a few pans worth of mud at once.
> 
> ...


Not familiar with the term TnT . good write up ,good info .


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## goneelkn (Jan 9, 2010)

A2Zcontracting said:


> If you have plenty of time on a job red dot will do pretty much everything from tape to texture, just keep watering it down as you go and it will spread smoother for skim and topcoats. I always keep hot mud, all purpose and/or TnT and paper tape around and do a ton of patches with them, ussually on a pretty tight schedule. I find mesh tape to be too lazy, too bumpy and not as strong. At least with paper tape even if you sand all the way down to the tape it wont ruin a patch.
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


Try Fiberfuse instead of paper.


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## A2Zcontracting (Jun 15, 2019)

JFM constr said:


> Not familiar with the term TnT . good write up ,good info .


TnT is "Texture &Topping". Its a lightweight, premixed mud that spreads very smooth and shoots easily out of a hopper. Very easy to work with but it takes a while to dry. Its far too light for taping and has much less glue than all purpose. Also, it shrinks a bit when it dries, but it is great for skimming over patches and for your final coats because it sands very easily. A little 220 grit sandpaper is all you need to clean it up and get a super smooth finish.

Around here its a white box with black print. Not sure if its a regional thing though.










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