# Scared to talk to homeowner



## skarrlette (May 14, 2008)

Ok here is some background first off the economy is killing me partly because I am just starting out and don't have that big of a customer base so I am working way cheaper than I want to make ends meet. Then I am also trying to create a customer base and have NO EXP with prices and just found out that I got ripped off big time for that lack of exp. But now its at the end of the job and I need advice on how to tell a customer that I need more money without ticking them off I tend to be blunt. 

I need a nice way to get more money out of the customer without losing there word of mouth.

Please advise :sad:


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

skarrlette said:


> Ok here is some background first off the economy is killing me partly because I am just starting out and don't have that big of a customer base so I am working way cheaper than I want to make ends meet. Then I am also trying to create a customer base and have NO EXP with prices and just found out that *I got ripped off big time for that lack of exp*. But now its at the end of the job and I need advice on how to tell a customer that I need more money without ticking them off I tend to be blunt.
> 
> *I need a nice way to get more money out of the customer without losing there word of mouth.*
> 
> Please advise :sad:


 
Rob the customer.:thumbsup:


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

skarrlette said:


> Ok here is some background first off the economy is killing me partly because I am just starting out and don't have that big of a customer base so I am working way cheaper than I want to make ends meet. Then I am also trying to create a customer base and have NO EXP with prices and just found out that I got ripped off big time for that lack of exp. But now its at the end of the job and I need advice on how to tell a customer that I need more money without ticking them off I tend to be blunt.
> 
> I need a nice way to get more money out of the customer without losing there word of mouth.
> 
> Please advise :sad:


Bite the bullet, finish the work, get paid per the original contract. Learn from the experience and get out there and find more work. Don't ask the customer to pay for your shortcomings. You made a deal, now live up to it.


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## copusbuilder (Nov 8, 2005)

People can sense desperation. If you are getting word of mouth referrals from people that are getting a bargain then you are better off without them.

Think what they'll tell their friends, "Hey this guy works cheap and does good work." Your doomed.

Maybe it's not time to be on your own just yet?:sad:


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

If you want to give it a go, (getting more than agreed upon) the most important thing is to not be attached to the outcome, do not go in aggressive, do not be a hardass---simply be honest, tell them the truth, and maybe, you will catch a break. Above all, BE POLITE, AND WILLING TO WALK AWAY LIKE A GENTLMAN. G


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't know, without a legitimate reason for a change order to justify the increase, you're on thin ice. I've been there, and I always just pressed on and chalked it up to experience. Unless some added extra popped up at the client's behest that I might pad a little to compensate, oh well, live and learn.
Imagine this scenario: 
You go to a restaurant, order a nice big steak and the price on the menu is what you are willing to pay. You eat the steak. 
Right before you get the bill, the owner of the restaurant comes out and says: "Uh....that steak was a lot harder to cook than we thought it would be, we need to add $10 over and above the price you saw on the menu."

I'd be pissed. 
Good luck though, and remember, there is value in hard knock business lessons just like there is in dollars.


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## skarrlette (May 14, 2008)

He took advantage of situation a little he knew I did not have that much experience so partly I think that asking for more money should be understood by him due to the fact that he got a huge deal from me and he even told me what the other quotes were then I went in and did all this custom work for him. I just think he took a little advantage of the situation. He is good reference he will not tell others I was cheap and I even priced another job for him BUT I still fair that in the end there was not a fair situation.


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## precisionbuild (Nov 17, 2008)

skarrlette said:


> He took advantage of situation a little he knew I did not have that much experience so partly I think that asking for more money should be understood by him due to the fact that he got a huge deal from me and he even told me what the other quotes were then I went in and did all this custom work for him. I just think he took a little advantage of the situation. He is good reference he will not tell others I was cheap and I even priced another job for him BUT I still fair that *in the end there was not a fair situation.*


It's just business (has nothing to do with fair). Now for the hard part...accept and move on. You just got a good education better than from a good university. And you didn't have to pay university rates or sit in class all day.

I have made the same mistakes in the past. Guess what? I'm alot smarter now. And people wonder why we hate to give out pricing on here...


Bottom line. *YOU* accepted the price so it was most certainly fair. He didn't stick a gun to your head. You can ask him for more, but you would be wrong. Sorry to depress you.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Unless you did more work and additional scope of work for this customer, you do not have any legitimate leg to stand on to request additional funds.

If he asked you to do additional work and you did it, without advising him that there would be additional fees, you took that burden upon yourself.

Yes, he knows he got a deal. So what?

You agreed and you willingly did it. Should be the end of the story and a valuable learning lesson for you.

Don't worry. It won't be the last learning lesson you encounter.

Now, if you think that he would go along with it, write up an additional work authorization for the minimum amount of additional materials and labor, per initial verbal authorization and see if he will sign that agreement.

He does not have to, but if he is fair minded and if you don't try to bump up the cost to make up for your bidding short-comings, he just may agree with "Some" additional charges.

The reality is though, that if you don't ask, you will not get anything.

If you do ask, you still may not get anything, and probably rightfully so.

Ed


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

skarrlette said:


> He took advantage of situation a little he knew I did not have that much experience


Welcome to the real world. Unless you can come up with legitimate costs that were over and above the original contract, you are screwed. Any thing you can collect is out of the goodness of the HO's heart. If you took him to court, what would you have to stand on ?


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

If I could get paid for the times life wasn't fair to me I could have paid for a degree from Yale. 
It hurts, but as others have said, you move on and learn from your mistakes.
What your telling us is you were not ready to run a business, now you are more ready.


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## Danahy (Oct 17, 2006)

Does "It's now at the end of the job", mean ur finishing up soon, punch list's to come? or You've actually finish'd completely? if ur done, then chalk it up to experience and move on, if your not, and you're gonna have to break every piggy bank, line of credit u own to see it thru, then be truthful, and blunt, but polite, and tell him where you're at. I'm assuming the quality is there, so it just comes down to the 'running ur business' part, which is where u want to focus on... You said he knows your new, so this shouldn't come as a surprise. You've also said that "He took advantage of the situation", and "I got ripped off big time", remember u said those things for a reason... they bother u.

When I was new, I used to eat my mistakes, but in hinesight, if I could go back, and that happen'd to me, phrases that come to mind are, .... I made a mistake, I under bid, I used every amount I could to do the best job I could, but now i'm at a point, where i can't afford it. I want to stay, and see this completed to your satisfaction. There were a few things that came up that I didn't anticipate (name a few), and should have included with the estimate. .... etc... etc.... the list goes on.

Maybe before hand (even if u don't use it), come up with a number that u think u should have charged for the project, and prepare to ask for even half if your nerves can get u to that point.

This is more than likely not gonna end up the way you had hoped, but there is a chance. What u take from this experience is worth more than any book imo

GL,


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

skarrlette said:


> Ok here is some background first off the economy is killing me partly because I am just starting out and don't have that big of a customer base so I am working way cheaper than I want to make ends meet. Then I am also trying to create a customer base and have NO EXP with prices and just found out that I got ripped off big time for that lack of exp. But now its at the end of the job and I need advice on how to tell a customer that I need more money without ticking them off I tend to be blunt.
> 
> I need a nice way to get more money out of the customer without losing there word of mouth.
> 
> Please advise :sad:


look at what you are saying first.
you blame the economy, we all are dealing with the economy, no exceptions. 
You say you are working for prices way cheaper than "you" want to. If this is so, imagine how much cheaper you are working than those in business with all the insurances & time put in learning. In essence you are taking away form those, during these hard times. Even if you have proper lisc & ins, low bidding is still hurting prices over all for all.
Then finally, you quoted a price then say "you" got ripped off. Ripped off would have to do with another quoting a price for you but still, you chose to perform the work at this price. So I fail to see how "you" got ripped off. 
Had you explained all upfront to the customer when you quoted the price, then maybe you would have cause to approach them. You offered them a fair bid, in your mind at the time. live with it & move on, lesson learnt as we all do. No matter how long in business, we all chance loosing money with each job for unforeseen reasons. The sooner you learn this the sooner you make money. :thumbsup:

Besides, one with far more experience probably could have taken the job for the price you did & walked away making a few bucks. Inexperience = more labor per job. 

If you ask for the more money it puts you at or close to the amount other's quoted, would them customers then not be encouraging that kind of business? 

Starting out is hell, but something we all go thru, the amount of hurt when beginning just depends on the amount of experience we each have when we venture out


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

silvertree said:


> If I could get paid for the times life wasn't fair to me I could have paid for a degree from Yale.
> It hurts, but as others have said, you move on and learn from your mistakes.
> What your telling us is you were not ready to run a business, now you are more ready.


Exactly. That's why experience, the real world kind, is so valuable. More so than money sometimes. Whatever happens, my guess is you won't let this occur again. 
Tuition paid to the School of Hard Knocks.
And I would venture a guess that every contractor associated with this forum has had a similar situation when they were first getting started. 
I certainly have.


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## billderboots (Mar 7, 2008)

Do you have enough money to finish the job professionaly? Its hard to show up every day knowing your working out of your own pocket.

I believe like the others posting here. You have to make it happen get done and learn from this.
Im sure everyone of us reading this can recall the same scenario in our own business. now once i did have customer years ago i approached and told him honestly I missed some things on my end and went in too low and I humbley asked if he could help me out some. but i made it plain that no feelings would lost if he stood his ground. He told me he would sleep on it. so i showed up the next morning not knowing if i made out or not and went straight to work. He came out several minutes later with a check in hand. it was only for about 1/3 of what i needed to come out even, but none the less he made this effort i was grateful. Not all HOs are gonna be this way but being honest and letting them know you made a mistake is a step in the right direction but dont hold your breath or hard feelings.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Ho furnush mat's? If so, I don't think I could ask for more, if you are a one man show and are only losing on the labor side.

Not long ago, I worked 5 partial days for $500 with 28 mile round trip each partial day. I think about it now, and I think I could have done that little project with a lot less miles involved and got more done with less partial days. I think I actually got paid close to what the job was worth, maybe.

Same thing with some cabinets. My inexperience cost me a lot of extra time.
But, the extra cost to me was only my time and fuel, so there was no asking for more.


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## skarrlette (May 14, 2008)

Yes the job is done except for a very minor detail and the homeowner even let me price another job and said "don't underestimate it" But there are no guarantees I have the job. I did not want to underbid the current job as much as I did it was just lack of experience in knowing what the right price was going to be due to only doing this for short period. Now its a hard pill for me to swallow and I don't want to swallow it he is giving me good references.

I am just going to take someones advice and explain the situation nicely and tell him that if he doesn't want to give extra thats fine with me after all this I don't want to lose his word of mouth.

Sometimes I feel I have to give a lower bid to get the job because I don't have my phone ringing off the hook yet and it sux eating [email protected]#$. To start up this biz did you guys have to bid lower to est a customer base? What did you do when no one was calling and you had to pay bills you can't just throw out high numbers??
:"


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

skarrlette said:


> Ok here is some background first off the economy is killing me partly because I am just starting out and don't have that big of a customer base so I am working way cheaper than I want to make ends meet. Then I am also trying to create a customer base and have NO EXP with prices and just found out that I got ripped off big time for that lack of exp. But now its at the end of the job and I need advice on how to tell a customer that I need more money without ticking them off I tend to be blunt.
> 
> I need a nice way to get more money out of the customer without losing there word of mouth.
> 
> Please advise :sad:


Way to take money from the pocket of someone who knows what they're doing. :thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

No, your reputation, aquired skills, assortment of quality tools, and knowledge will get you the high prices. YOU know what YOU can do and how quickly YOU can do it. Therefore YOU should be better off at YOUR estimating and pricing points. Suck ass, be nice if that doesn't work may I suggest a little hat sauce for your crow?


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

skarrlette said:


> Yes the job is done except for a very minor detail and the homeowner even let me price another job and said "don't underestimate it" But there are no guarantees I have the job.


Live and learn like the rest of us did. I'm sorry but you've got to suck it up. This guy sounds like he's trying to help you out. You said above, he told you "don't underestimate"

I will finish what he did not say. "......like the last time"

You've got to be selling your abilities to do it right. Do not....I repeat...DO NOT use the excuse "I am inexperienced"

You will be getting the same result every single time. You will be everyone's *****. 

Sell your positive features to customers and tell them why. You've got some homework to do. Get it down, sell yourself, promote yourself.


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## mikec (Jan 2, 2007)

I would just finish, collect and learn from it, as was said before, you made the deal.
Now not to hijack your thread, this reminded me of something that happened thanks giving day.
I went to my sisters house for the holiday, as I pull up I notice the home across the street is in the middle of being roofed(ladders with ladder jacks, and a plank set up on the back). I see the front is done, the back is up about 4 courses or so. The contractor is doing what we call a but and run, roofing over the top of the original shingles. Now I know these people are old friends of my brother inlaws father. Also I've done enough roofing in my life to know this roof is in the 20 square range. So after dinner the phone rings, its the HO whos having the roof done. They want to talk to bro inlaws dad to thank him for recommending the roofer. At first, I'm a bit pissed, but the job is kinda far from me so whatever. Now bro inlaws dad gets off the phone bragging how some guy gave them a price to tear off at just over 7k,but"my guy told them he was screwing them, and they didn't need to do that", so he's re roofing for 3k. I nearly sh!t. 30 year archs,20 or so square around here equals about 2k. So I speak up and say something doesn't sound right, this guy can't be insured and on the up and up. I am promptly told he IS ON THE UP AND UP,AND HE ALWAYS PAYS HIS 3 GUYS CASH! So whatever, even after a few grey gooses I'm not gonna argue with a 70 year old italian mason. Ok skip ahead a few days. I get a call from my sis. She is laughing telling me the neighbor called her. The guy finished the roof, went to get his check, and told her he messed up the price bad! But he's not asking for anymore money, it was his mistake. Now the HO tells my sis, "i'm gonna pay him more becaus I don't want any trouble". I nearly sh!t again. LOL


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

skarrlette said:


> He took advantage of situation a little he knew I did not have that much experience so partly I think that asking for more money should be understood by him due to the fact that he got a huge deal from me and he even told me what the other quotes were then I went in and did all this custom work for him.



So he showed you the quotes from the other companies and you saw that you were going to come in a lot cheaper.. Did this not set any flags off for you?

You've just bought, paid for, and received an education in estimating. 

Learn it. Know it. Live it.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

you have my sincerest sympathies and condolences...i think that customer should be ashamed of themselves....taking advantage of you like that...if i were you, i'd march up to that customer and demand that they pay me more money...afterall, it's only fair that they pay what the job is worth...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

theres an old saying sometimes you eat the bear ,sometimes the bear eats you


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Learn it. Know it. Live it.

Sounds like a Nike commercial


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## Tim's Toolbelt (Dec 20, 2008)

Sounds so familiar. I quoted a 'Pottery Barn' type entertainment center for a customer. Looked at everything and asked what I thought made sense. Took me 50% longer than I expected, but I gave a quote and didn't feel I could ask for me. I will and have never underpriced myself again. I now prefer to buffer in a little more and come out under estimate if anything.

Bite the bullet and learn from it. It's a good thing it is only 1 job.


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

mikec said:


> Now bro inlaws dad gets off the phone bragging how some guy gave them a price to tear off at just over 7k,but"my guy told them he was screwing them, and they didn't need to do that", so he's re roofing for 3k. I nearly sh!t. 30 year archs,20 or so square around here equals about 2k. So I speak up and say something doesn't sound right, this guy can't be insured and on the up and up. I am promptly told he IS ON THE UP AND UP,AND HE ALWAYS PAYS HIS 3 GUYS CASH! So whatever, even after a few grey gooses I'm not gonna argue with a 70 year old italian mason. Ok skip ahead a few days. I get a call from my sis. She is laughing telling me the neighbor called her. The guy finished the roof, went to get his check, and told her he messed up the price bad! But he's not asking for anymore money, it was his mistake. Now the HO tells my sis, "i'm gonna pay him more becaus I don't want any trouble". I nearly sh!t again. LOL


 
Ahhh....the ole underbid the legit contractors gig, followed by the poor whoa is me crap


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

genecarp said:


> If you want to give it a go, (getting more than agreed upon) the most important thing is to not be attached to the outcome, do not go in aggressive, do not be a hardass---simply be honest, tell them the truth, and maybe, you will catch a break. Above all, BE POLITE, AND WILLING TO WALK AWAY LIKE A GENTLMAN. G


If you really want to give it a go, follow Genecarp's advice.

I worried about setting my prices too high when I started. I decided to learn what others were charging in my area and made my price list competitive, but not cheaper. Smart people shop for contractors in that competitive range. It then becomes a selling game- I must convince the customer that hiring me will be the best choice in accomplishing their goal.

Of course, one day I will have the experience and the reputation to back up a significantly higher price...:whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

So what exactly was the scope of work and what was the "contract" amount? There was a contract, right?

What was your experience prior to starting your own business? (both trade and business experience)? 

You can learn an awful lot by spending some days/weeks/months reading on these forums and others like it. 

Read ALL the business posts on these types of forums. Some good info will get through to you eventually and at least hope you learn from the mistakes/fu's of others. 

It's pretty hard/expensive to have learn _everything_ the hard way.

J


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

skarrlette said:


> Ok here is some background first off the economy is killing me partly because I am just starting out and don't have that big of a customer base so I am working way cheaper than I want to make ends meet. Then I am also trying to create a customer base and have NO EXP with prices and just found out that I got ripped off big time for that lack of exp. But now its at the end of the job and I need advice on how to tell a customer that I need more money without ticking them off I tend to be blunt.
> 
> I need a nice way to get more money out of the customer without losing there word of mouth.
> 
> Please advise :sad:


The short answer is: YOu eat it. It's not the customers' fault. You messed up. 

Next time if the project changes you need to address those changes immediately with written change orders. 

If you messed up a bid you eat it. Next time, get your subs and suppliers to bid it before you bid it.


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## jcalvin (Feb 1, 2008)

genecarp said:


> If you want to give it a go, (getting more than agreed upon) the most important thing is to not be attached to the outcome, do not go in aggressive, do not be a hardass---simply be honest, tell them the truth, and maybe, you will catch a break. Above all, BE POLITE, AND WILLING TO WALK AWAY LIKE A GENTLMAN. G


 
This is exactly what I done when this happened to me. Remember, YOU figured the bid, YOU accepted the work, now YOU have to deal with it. When I handed in the final bill, I explained to the HO what happened politely and assumed all responsibility. The reason I did this was largely to prepare the guy not to expect a similar bid down the road should he need more work done down the road. I don't think that he felt sorry enough for me to add a little to the check, but, I did establish a trusting relationship with the HO that has in turn lead to more work.

This is probably not the only time this will happen. Just remember to make darn sure you are willing to work for what you say you will.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

jcalvin said:


> This is exactly what I done when this happened to me. Remember, YOU figured the bid, YOU accepted the work, now YOU have to deal with it. When I handed in the final bill, I explained to the HO what happened politely and assumed all responsibility. The reason I did this was largely to prepare the guy not to expect a similar bid down the road should he need more work done down the road. I don't think that he felt sorry enough for me to add a little to the check, but, I did establish a trusting relationship with the HO that has in turn lead to more work.
> 
> This is probably not the only time this will happen. *Just remember to make darn sure you are willing to work for what you say you will*.


 
Good point. *Trust (customer) + Respect (customer) + Commitment (contractor) = Ladder 2 Success!!!*


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

dokuhaku said:


> If you really want to give it a go, follow Genecarp's advice.
> 
> I worried about setting my prices too high when I started. I decided to learn what others were charging in my area and made my price list competitive, but not cheaper. Smart people shop for contractors in that competitive range. It then becomes a selling game- I must convince the customer that hiring me will be the best choice in accomplishing their goal.
> 
> Of course, one day I will have the experience and the reputation to back up a significantly higher price...:whistling


Good point; in this case the HO assumed a risk in dealing with a contractor who lacked experience. The outcome could have easily went the other way.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

BTW I want to add that you should build good will with the customer. Personally me if I screw up I'll casually drop that fact in a conversation "Well it took alot longer than we thought but that's not your problem. We wanted to make sure it got done right anyways!" "Well we needed more material but don't worry about it, I have a guy picking it up right now and I'm not going to charge you for my mistake."


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Grumpy? Are those hints hoping the ho will offer more to help cover, or are they just to let the ho know you are manning up and will not take extra?


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

No those hints are NOT hoping the home owner will add anything. I am under the distinct fundamental that you never give anything away for free and when you do you might as well get something out of it. In this case by telling the customer, you are getting good will. In your words, "maning up". 

To be honest we have enough profit in a job that even if we make a screw up, we won't lose money. We just won't make as much as we should have. In addition we re-measure every job before the material gets ordered so we should know about most screw ups before they get ordered and scheduled. Even though, mistakes sometimes happen. 

One guy once told me that he intentionally tells the customer that they made a mistake and fixed it, weather that be true or not, just to build that good will with the customer. He swears by it, but I feel that it's playing with fire, not to mention flat out deception.


One guy once told me he was in this situation and paraphrasing this is what he said to the general contractor... "I wanted you to know that we made a major mistake on the bid. We did the job right and will honor our warranty. You are under no obligation to pay me anything more than we previously agreed, but if by chance when the job is all done and closed out and you have a little extra profit left over you could maybe throw some my way, I would be very appreciative." He claims the GC bumped him up to the next lower bid, although I could never see that being true. However he is very trustworthy and if he says it, I beleive it, I just have never ever met a GC who would do this, ever. This guy I am referring to does in one year's revenue more than I have done in my career so far, just to give you a little background. They are a very large commercial roofing contractor.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

skarrlette said:


> *
> the economy is killing me
> I am just starting out
> I am working way cheaper.
> ...


Everything looks worse in black and white.
BTW, I have paid extra when guys came to me and say they underbid, only because I knew what the right price was.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> No those hints are NOT hoping the home owner will add anything


Grumpy, I was not calling them hints. I was asking if they were hints. Just thought I might clarify that. As it is, they are not hints. Imo, they are statements that attest to your integrity and ability to price a job where you will not get hurt enough to really feel any appreciative pain.

"Appreciative paint"? Sounds like an oxymoron, but you know what I mean!


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## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

Don't worry you will have many years to make the money back . A Deal is a deal . You should figure the cost of fubar per year . It like over head . I add 2% to my contracts to make up for loss. Some ones has to pay and its not going to be me . :thumbup: John


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## hbiss (May 23, 2007)

Just think, you'll make it up by not having to pay taxes this year because you lost money.

-Hal


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