# A sad day for the brick industry.



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Just heard from a good friend today,he informed me one of my favorite brick producers,Old Va. Brick suspended operations and may file for bankruptcy.


I know several guys here have used them and liked them quite a bit.:sad:



http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/04/salem-brick-company-suspends-operations-furloughs-workers/


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

That sucks, manifestations of the disposable world we're living in. 

On a side note...I just quoted a thin brick veneer in which the materials where twice the cost of traditional brick


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Gee we did that project over the winter with their bricks. They were a touch soft, but a nice brick!


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

fjn said:


> Just heard from a good friend today,he informed me one of my favorite brick producers,Old Va. Brick suspended operations and may file for bankruptcy.
> 
> 
> I know several guys here have used them and liked them quite a bit.:sad:
> ...


 I hate to hear this. I haven't talked to anybody there in awhile. Maybe they can find a way to turn things around....


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## pritch (Nov 2, 2008)

Hard to sell bricks when there is no one to lay them.

(All I'm saying is that around here, we could probably put 500 brick layers to work tomorrow)


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Survival of the fittest. 

Bad for them personally, good for the marketplace which now has a slightly higher percentage of 'fit' vendors.

Bad or good for consumers?, IDK.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

GettingBy said:


> Bad for them personally, good for the marketplace which now has a slightly higher percentage of 'fit' vendors.
> 
> Bad or good for consumers?, IDK.





No,just the opposite,bad for the marketplace and consumers. Less producers means existing ones have less competition and better chances to manipulate pricing. Back in the day,every small town had a brick producer,then the conglomerates bought up the independents,shut the plants (thereby eliminating competition)and jacked prices through the ceiling. Have witnessed it first hand in my lifetime .


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Most of Canada would be a prime example of that. No small producers that i can think of anymore. Hanson and General Shale (various subsidaries actually) are the only real producers here. Everything else comes from you guys and in a very small amount ibstock from England.

I think most of you would be shocked by the price of brick here

Oh yeah, forgot about Jazbrick. SUM have you ever installed them?


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

I guess the 'fittest' vendors are those with monopoly power. Bad for consumers.

It may never turn around unless we are invaded. 
For sure a Corporatocracy or Kleptocracy is not going to protect the little people, and I don't know what fraction of these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Forms_of_government
will.

I heard that in WWII, NYC businesses were told to turn off their lights so the German U-boats couldn't use them as beacons. Which was a reasonable fear.
The businesses said, 'No' and No it was.
This example is where "individuals acting independently and rationally according to each's self-interest behave contrary to the best interests of the whole group" with very high stakes.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Did they run out of a clay body to produce, or just could not be competitive?


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The brick industry is an industry that has been faced with depletion of reserves, high energy costs, high production costs and inability to ship great enough distances to have a real market presence in.

The clay reserves determine the color and strength of the brick, so matching brick from other locations is very difficult, if not impossible.

It is a high energy product (low efficiency) from a manufacturing standpoint and everyone know what has happened to fuel.

Cement has gone up but not nearly as much, so concrete products (especially architectural concrete block) have taken a huge chunk out of the old brick markets and forced the small older brick plants to close the doors. Concrete products (block, pavers) have opened many new market products due to the manufacturing process that have made them more market stable.

Construction materials today is not for small local manufacturers.

Dick


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## tecpro-2 (Apr 22, 2015)

*A reply for the Clay Brick*

Remember guys, years ago you could only get clay tile pipes, then only clay type interlocking pavers, and clay roof tiles. 
Now there are options to purchase these items in Concrete, along with the Thin Brick.
Yes Concrete thin brick that has passed ASTM specs, and is PCI Compliant. 
Made in Hartland Wi.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Tscarborough said:


> Did they run out of a clay body to produce, or just could not be competitive?





My take on their situation,from reading the article,the new owner bought the company in 2007,just in time to participate in one heck of a housing down turn.


More than likely,if he is carrying any debt of any significance the juice got him.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

concretemasonry said:


> The brick industry is an industry that has been faced with depletion of reserves, high energy costs, high production costs and inability to ship great enough distances to have a real market presence in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The shipping long distances certainly is an issue.If by depletion of reserves you mean clay,that would be more difficult to accept,when this planet runs out of clay,where will we put our feet to stand.:laughing:


The fuel cost is what they all cry about and want you to believe.Read the free down load book Sixty Years A Brick Maker by Crary,written in the late 1800,s. With a totally inefficient scove kiln he states it took 300 lb. of coal or 600 lb. of hardwood to fire 1M brick ! Do the math and compute those B.TU.s to gas or oil,or the current price of $53.00 for a ton of coal and that excuse just went out the window. Furthermore,the largest state of the art brick plant sits on over 400 acres of clay and gets its fuel from the methane gas from the landfill literally across the road ! T.Jefferson crunched the numbers for us,to produce a million brick,it takes one foot of clay extracted from an acre of land. That brick plant I speak of is in S.W. Indiana. Also,not even getting into the deeper shale deposits,strictly talking alluvial clays (almost always a perfect blend of clay and sand) one deposit extends 20 miles on either side of the Mississippi river 200 ft. deep going from Memphis Tn. to New Orleans La.. Running out of resources does not seem likely.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

tecpro-2 said:


> Remember guys, years ago you could only get clay tile pipes, then only clay type interlocking pavers, and clay roof tiles.
> Now there are options to purchase these items in Concrete, along with the Thin Brick.
> Yes Concrete thin brick that has passed ASTM specs, and is PCI Compliant.
> Made in Hartland Wi.






What you say is accurate,however,what is also accurate is that clay products age gracefully with time and take on a patina of their own. That is is contrast to a concrete product that the cement paste wears off quickly,exposing the motley look of the aggregate while the original sheen dissipates. That is why most concrete paving producers advocate periodic sealer application. Who wants to sign up for that mess ?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Unless a plant runs out of clay body, there are only a couple reasons for it to close. The main one is the age of the plant. Old plants can not match the efficiency of a modern plant, at every stage from mining through the pug mill to the actual production of the plants and the firing process.

The other reason is simple competitive pressure where the conglomerates buy up the small plants and shut them down in the name of efficiency.

Concrete products are not really the same market, other than on the very low end.


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## tecpro-2 (Apr 22, 2015)

*Concrete Thin Brick*

Yes that is the common thought of the concrete products produced through the years, that the cement paste would break down, but now with better additives and the process in which we manufacture, the units are very dense. 
Most of the cementitious products out there are subjected to vehicle traffic or salt degradation. 

We here at Tec Have made some very necessary changes to our products with mix changes so not to have these common items occur.

We did our freeze thaw testing that showed our product is very sustainable and did not break down. We completed over 300 cycles to accomplish our testing!

Funny thing is that the cultured stone out there is concrete based as well, and people are using it like crazy, and going on high end homes. 
Definitely making a statement here, not looking to get beat up! (but it is true).

We have had been at trade shows that we have shown our products and tenured clay brick competitors have asked why we have clay product in our booth, and then we bring them in closer and they realize that it is actually concrete. They are amazed, that we accomplished the look. 

Our product is a champion and performs well and look real, and should not be considered low end. We are very competitive, and bid regularly against the Clay Thin Brick market.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I was talking about brick, not fake stone. Concrete brick is low end.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

there is an Olive garden we goto and their sign by the road is all faded (cultured stone) from the salt and sprinkler and whatnot. Putting cultured stone on a high end house does not make the cultured stone a high end product. Its trash, no matter where you stick it.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

JBM said:


> there is an Olive garden we goto and their sign by the road is all faded (cultured stone) from the salt and sprinkler and whatnot. Putting cultured stone on a high end house does not make the cultured stone a high end product. Its trash, no matter where you stick it.





:thumbsup:


It never made any sense to me to buy an artificial,imitation,pretend anything, thinking you will save a few nickles. In 99.9 % of the time,the cheaper substitute will need replacing in a relatively short time. Where is the saving then ? An excellent book that discusses this very issue on most every building material is Traditional Construction Patterns,written by Steve Mouzon. I highly encourage getting that book from a library,it is well worth the read.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I dont even bid cultured stone. Its just not where I want to go.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Not what I want to do either but on a cold winters day I'll put that stuff on any fireplace I can find.

As an aside. Cutured stone is almost on par for me price wise as most natural stones, natural thinstone is more expensive for me to install than the full bed stuff


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

There may be some light at the end of the tunnel. Old Va. Brick Co. has been bought at auction. I hope they figure out a way to make it work.




http://www.roanoke.com/business/new...cle_8de32826-6144-5bca-818f-e89d2c2dcb15.html


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Only a glutton for punishment would want to run any smoke stack industry in the socialist peoples republic of the United States.

Coal, even at less than 1/3 the cost of Natural Gas is pretty much forbidden as being anti-Green by various Eco-commies(Watermelons, green outside, socialist pink inside) in the Obama administration.

Running out of shale.....:laughing::laughing::laughing:
200+ years of coal.....

many an old brick shale Pit/pond ends up as a "new" water feature R.E. development.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> many an old brick shale Pit/pond ends up as a "new" water feature R.E. development.


Home for Great Crested Newts here, over 30,000 at the last count.
http://www.quarrylifeaward.com/site...dyle_nature_reserve-whittlesey_brickworks.pdf


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