# Thieving Bastards



## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Anyone else notice how almost all subs like to steal ****?

They always want to get paid before the job is even started and they always want more money before it’s done.

They all do shltty work and when you show them they always blame the sub before them, which is always BS. 

The list is endless but I’ll have to add more later.


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## Bull Trout (Dec 6, 2016)

sometimes the job feels more babysitter than anything else, sometimes you get a good group of subs and it feels like contracting


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Big Johnson said:


> They always want to get paid before the job is even started and they always want more money before it’s done.


Well garsh Buckwheat, how's that any different from recommended practice for a GC? 

Maybe you just need to vet your subs a bit better. :thumbsup:


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## Frank Castle (Dec 27, 2011)

:whistling


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

"Lying Bastards" with an emphasis on GC's (http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/lying-bastards-395698/), and now thieving bastards on the other end of the stick with the emphasis on subs,..

Who else is left?... :blink:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

KAP said:


> "Lying Bastards" with an emphasis on GC's (http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/lying-bastards-395698/), and now thieving bastards on the other end of the stick with the emphasis on subs,..
> 
> Who else is left?... :blink:


I think that's the point of this thread. :whistling :laughing:

Gonna go get me some popcorn. :thumbsup:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Big Johnson said:


> Anyone else notice how almost all subs like to steal ****?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You get what you pay for. If there's a problem with one sub it's more than likely the sub. If there's a problem with many subs it's absolutey a problem with you. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Hiring the lowest bidder?


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Tinstaafl said:


> Well garsh Buckwheat, how's that any different from recommended practice for a GC?
> 
> Maybe you just need to vet your subs a bit better. :thumbsup:


Those are the ones I either don’t hire or only use once. It’s been slim Pickens up here for the past few years. I have good ones but on every job I have to find some new ones. Either my old guy gets lazy, meets a new girl, gets a real job, moves or whatever. 


Btw, this was to counter cdawg boys thread. At least one guy out there picked up on that. My point is there are as many (probably more) bad subs out there as bad GC/builders.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Inner10 said:


> Hiring the lowest bidder?


Nope. But it my experience the highest bidder doesn’t usually want the job. When you get ~5 bids that are all around the same amount and the highest bidder is double, I think it fair to toss that one out. I know everyone on here would like for the highest bidder to be picked every time. 

I almost always hire a sub that I get a recommendation for or I see doing a job that I sneak in and check out.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

This thread isn’t looking for advice on how to hire subs.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Some holy rollers on here...


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Big Johnson said:


> Anyone else notice how almost all subs like to steal ****?
> 
> They always want to get paid before the job is even started and they always want more money before it’s done.
> 
> ...


Any of them have a favorite thing to filcH?

I had illegals try to take an entire lift of OSB once. They loaded up, sunk tires into muck, offloaded and trenched their way out.

Never saw 'em.

I think the way it works - there's always one guy on a crew that calls his hombres who are always set to swoop in and load up when a fresh load of material is dropped off.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Glad to see someone came out with a competing thread. Believe it or not, I actually agree that some subs are thieving sh--ts. In my area, they seem to be from a certain culture(s). I won't name those cultures, cus I want to avoid the Lib backlash and public hanging.

The actual reason I started my thread is because a large property management firm told me specifically on the phone that their payment check was mailed on the 20th of the month. It wasn't for the total amount of the invoices due, but it was close. 

Six days later, no check. Now I'm getting a little pissed off. They said that if I didn't get the check, have them stop payment on it and they will go through the process of issuing a new one. Well guess what, a day later the check arrives at our office, not our mailing address. And, it was mailed and post marked the day before. So, in other words, they lied. 

My experience with property management is less than stellar. Always late, some reason for not paying the whole bill, on and on. But then I thought, well.............who has screwed me the most out of all of our types of clients. By a large margin, it's been GC's. 

The GC's have either: Not paid, and, either I go after their bond or write it off as a loss. Or, I got to bug them about it until they finally give up and pay. 

To be fair, I had to go back and give some serious thought about who the worst payers are, that is how I got the list. Maybe if more than 2% of our jobs were residential, the HO's would be higher on the list. 

This thread I have is not real serious, most of our work is with GC's and 99.9% of them are just like us, pay their bills on time and we all get along.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> You get what you pay for. If there's a problem with one sub it's more than likely the sub. If there's a problem with many subs it's absolutey a problem with you.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


You damn sure don't always get what you pay for, Mike. That was about the dumbass statement of the year for anyone on the Forum:laughing: I doubt there is a man here who cannot give a story about paying top dollar for something that they got screwed on

Yes it helps to be willing to pay top dollar, but some trades and some areas are just not going to be the best business guys or the most reliable on timeline. Same thing for suppliers. Probably depends on where you live and how much volume you're running. I honestly believe a big part of the reason tract builders have not made it out here where we are at is they would have to bring everything including their suppliers and subcontractors with them from the big city to keep up

The best and most expensive Subs are two to four man crews, and many of them cannot handle doing the amount of work a midsize contractor will need them to do along with their other work. 

The bigger subs are missing all the quality control that the smaller subs have.

If you have multiple subs your quality and flow on the job wont be consistent. 

We decided to do less work after two years trying to fix ****ty business practices. I also went to Houston for my glass guy, 4 hours away, he is more than happy to come up here for the amount of glass we give him, and he is actually 10 days faster than the turnaround for a local guy, who my family has used since the 1950s. I don't give a s*** about sentimentality when you are messing with my wallet and my other sub-contractors wallets. I also helped a buddy open a flooring store by making a bunch of calls to other builders to switch to him, flooring stores here suck complete ass

My Golden Rule is don't ever waste my f****** time. I do not waste yours and if I do I will pay you for it without questions asked. I may have a reputation as a dick with some subs but I guarantee I can have one as being a fair and fast payer and someone who does not bicker over charges. I can name off three times last year I paid a sub extra without being asked because the job was held up due to selection issues to a designer. I earn my reputation, I expect the same from the men who work with me

If someone messes something up and costs me some money they are not going to go straight to my s*** list on a 99% basis, if they waste my time more than once they will be gone as fast as I hired them.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Btw, in 10 years i dont think i have ever had a sub steal anything. Worst i can remember is drywall guys or painters using subs tools thinking they were mine


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Jaws said:


> The best and most expensive Subs are two to four man crews, and many of them cannot handle doing the amount of work a midsize contractor will need them to do along with their other work.
> 
> The bigger subs are missing all the quality control that the smaller subs have.
> 
> .


True statements. I miss a lot of work that I could have because not willing to put all my eggs in one or two baskets. But I am able to know whats going on with all our projects and know damn well there is no thieving.

Also, if there is a problem, or screw up, I know about it immediately and inform the customer before it becomes an issue.


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## bwiab (Mar 17, 2006)

Most subs screw themselves by not reviewing the plans, assuming every job is the same and signing a contract that holds them accountable for all work in the plans. Assuming they value the integrity of a contract...Doesn't help me one bit either way.


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## bwiab (Mar 17, 2006)

My buddy does GC for insurance claims. Labor market is so tight right now he and roofing foreman saw a roofer loading brand new rolls of underlayment into his truck. Roofer says, " you want me to fire him?" My buddy says, "Nah... just make sure he's here in the morning..."😂


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

It's funny how being the first to pay is one of the factors that consistently gets you loyalty from subs in both performance and schedule... 

From my experience, the GC's who jerk subs around on getting paid or not having materials on hand just cause themselves headaches... the subs will either increase their prices with a PITA factor or put them on the low priority list... then they have to find other subs...

For some reason, people really like getting paid... making sure materials are on hand before a sub shows up and bringing a check while simultaneously checking progress, some subs for the subs ( :laughing: ), etc. goes a long way to greasing the wheels...


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