# PAPER CONTRACTOR versus BAGS ON CONTRACTOR



## bambambam (Nov 16, 2008)

Are there any contractors out there that are paper contractors who just want to work on the business end of home improvements?

I want to find out the best of business practices to run an employee based company. 

Can you share a little of your story of what works and what does not?

Thanks
BAMBAM


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Paper contractors Are a joke most of the time, If you become a paper contractor after grinding out 20 years with your belt on thats one thing, but to expect to run jobs and have an hornary bunch of tradesman follow you into battle, you have another thing coming. G


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

So your saying I need some muscles, scars, weapons and war experience before leading my men in to battle?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Let's go remodeling...............


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## spdtrx (Sep 10, 2009)

rbsremodeling said:


> So your saying I need some muscles, scars, weapons and war experience before leading my men in to battle?


 

It helps.:cowboy::tank::gun_bandana::gunsmilie:


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

http://







More like this


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

I'd rather be the money contractor - just the guy who collects all the profits after the job is done and paying the bags on contractor and paper contractor.

....wait, would there be any profit left? :sad:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

We've cleaned up ALOT of messes left behind by paper contractors that have no experience in the feild, just some "college courses" on construction management. I think....i KNOW it's much easier for guys like me/us that have paid our dues in the feild, made our contacts, forged our relationships across many borders to make it as a "paper contractor" later in time because we've actually been in the trenches and know what it takes in real life vs what some schmuck in a class room is telling you. It makes it easier to diagnois a job while bidding since there's a 1000 things we've run into and know what to look for/expect so we can foresee, bring to light possible problems in the future instead of throwing customers the never percieved well, "we have a problem" 

I know it can be done, i know other's do it, but i feel from a professional typically and initally founded on reputation it's much better to actually have a sound/strong foundation to start with since it makes building yourself up a much easier process. Truth be know after over 20yrs in the business and 17yrs offically on my own i've pulled back quite a bit on the acutal hands on unless its a phase i consider technical and i make it a point to be on site so i know i wont be getting concerned phone calls and materials/time wont be wasted 1 little bit by the crew pondering on the best way to tackle the situation, but even at that i do alot of barking vs sweating...though i still pay my dues everyday


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

You really need to know how to do the work so you can jump in if you have employee problems. That said, I think a business can run more efficiently with the head guy spending all his time scaring up business and making sure the job runs smoothly.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I have cleaned up many of tool belt wearing, I have 20 years in the field experience contractors messes as well..


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

My tool belt is like a yo-yo. I prefer it off but lately sales haven't supported enough employees to keep it off. And besides, it gets lonely.

One thing you have to know is your numbers and how many you need in the field to support your office. Then you just trade one job for the other and sell enough to keep it off.

Good Luck
Dave


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

i like paper contractors, its like having salesmen I never even had to hire.:thumbsup:
i have build quite a few ground up homes for paper pushers.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

you cannot run if you don't know how to walk.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Donald Trump seems to have done pretty well just putting deals together, the differences in being a contractor and being a commercial developer notwithstanding.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Paper contractors have always baffled me. How do they communicate with their project managers, clients, etc. when they don't know the difference between window casing and a hip rafter?
Are they just great BSers or what.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

I wouldn't mind being a paper contractor.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

I think if you could round up all the paper contractors in a group you could start sorting them into different subcategories. You would probably find that some are knowledgeable, some are not. Some would be upright and honest and some would be otherwise. Just like other groups of people you would find all kinds within the group.

They have a place in our industry. At a very basic level they are the salesmen that secure the job and hire tradesmen to complete it. Have you ever met a sub that is a sub because he doesn't like to deal with the customer? A paper contractor would provide a valuable service to these tradesmen.

Allen Edwards comes to mind. He builds high end homes for the wealthy using all subs for the work. Not sure, but I don't think he ever swung a hammer. But that doesn't prevent him from putting out an excellent product.

Good Luck
Dave


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

A good "paper contractor" sells the projects with enough profit to hire all the right experienced people...estimators, project managers, lead carpenters, good subs... :whistling

I'm not saying it's better to have next to no experience in the trenches, just that it can be done by an intelligent businessman.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

bambambam said:


> Are there any contractors out there that are paper contractors who just want to work on the business end of home improvements?
> 
> I want to find out the best of business practices to run an employee based company.
> 
> ...


I like your "trade" :laughing:


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between the 2?

Im guessing paper only sells the job and subs vs the contractor who actually does the worK?


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## Zinsco (Oct 14, 2009)

Randall Murray said:


> I have been called a "paper contractor" because I don't have any employees, I only use trade contractors, Does this make me a "paper contractor"?


You probably add value to the project by management and supervision and problem solving. Paper contractors basically just resell jobs and are seldom seen except to ask for checks.


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## Ohmy (Sep 10, 2009)

dvon104 said:


> It seems alot of the responses are from "sub-contractors".....I guess all G.C's would be paper contractors ...because I do not know a "GC" who wears a tool belt and pounds nails ...They hold the license and hire the subs (bag contractors)....its 2 totally different types of work ...


 There are lots of GC's that wear tools belts...they are called handyman who are over their heads 

The one good thing about this recession is its made it alot easier for us sub contractors. A couple of years ago, every handyman with a pickup truck fancied himself a GC and wanted us to go bankrupted with them.

Plus, all the good companies had trouble finding good help because any guy with half a brain was running his own show which meant that all the foreman were idiots. 

Nowadays all the companies left are good companies with money in the bank. All decent guys are back running crews and making jobs better for everyone. All the idiots are back at home depot giving crappy advice to unsuspecting home owners.

All is well.


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