# $1.00 raise



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

A guy gets a raise and complains about it. I had to check the date of this post to make sure it wasn't a 3 year old post, cause I could have sworn this was still December 7th 2008. Anybody read a newspaper lately?


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Anybody read a newspaper lately?


no, i haven't. I get all my news from the P&R section :laughing: seriously.


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## matt grisham (Aug 17, 2008)

Every body makes ther own deal in the begining, shoud no what to exspect, Noul you have to do the job , and your time will come


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## curiouscanuck (Dec 7, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> I had to check the date of this post to make sure it wasn't a 3 year old post, cause I could have sworn this was still December 7th 2008. Anybody read a newspaper lately?


Good point... for you Ja... That's another reason why it may be good to see if you would have options somewhere else. It might shed some light on why your present boss is holding back.

If your boss and the rest of the industry is anticipating survival mode when his current projects are wrapping up, maybe your hanging tough is the way to go... and sticking through the bad times with him could be a good foundation for a different relationship later on when things turn around.

Matt


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## RayContracting (Oct 25, 2008)

With 1/2 million jobs lost in just the last month alone, you should be kissing his feet and thanking him you still have a job. I would fire you just for bringing up the issue in this economy!


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## nailman (Sep 4, 2008)

From the advice i see here someone should tell his boss to fire him and hire 2 of the 1/2 million that just got layed off and pay them 5$ an hour each. Get 2 times as much work done. You know those DHL guys can swing hammers too, can't hit the nail or build a house but it sure sounds good.


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## Ivinni (Jan 11, 2008)

ja-builder said:


> Yup, I just received a dollar raise(that puts me at 13/hr). I am grateful for the offering, but thats just it, an offering. I have been working for my boss for 14 mo. now, and Ive had earlier experience before this. In the past 14 mo. hes taken 6 weeks of vacation, leaving me in charge. I get everything done even before the 40 hrs. And yes I then only get paid the hours I say I work (Im honest). I do not get benefits,vacation pay, nothing.
> We get a lot of work done in the usual week. I believe he makes buco bucks off me. How do I politey say "hey, Im worth more!"
> Please help!!! What is a carpenter making these days; I'm in the comercial end of construction, such as apartment high rises.
> Thanks-
> J:thumbsup:



Ja,

Someone already asked what you thought you were worth but obviously haven't had a chance to answer back yet. If you know EXACTLY what that answer is, I will be surprised. So before you answer, I have another question for you and if you know the answer to this one and have already shown that you know what it is, you will have no problem getting more money or starting your own business.

WHAT is it that makes you worth that much? (Beyond making sure that the expenses are kept at an acceptable level.)


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

No boss, in any trade, will fail to take care of one who makes him money..

If this is so, it will be by one who is just starting up a company and will not be in business long. 
Each time I fire someone, (or use to) they take their 15 mins of fame to tell me how great they are, how much money they could make me, ect ect. 
Each time, it offers me a smile, if you are so good, with the time I have been in business, why would I fire you, if anything of the above was indeed true? 

A good worker is always taken care of by his / her employer. Business is about making money. Part of operating a business is "knowing" the productivity of each worker, then all workers as a whole, working together as one. 

Worst thing one can do is say, "if i have more money per hr, I will work more. 

No you won't.. A person's work ethics are what they are, regardless of pay or anything else. :thumbsup:


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## Central Nova (Nov 9, 2008)

ja-builder said:


> Yup, I just received a dollar raise(that puts me at 13/hr). I am grateful for the offering, but thats just it, an offering. I have been working for my boss for 14 mo. now, and Ive had earlier experience before this. In the past 14 mo. hes taken 6 weeks of vacation, leaving me in charge. I get everything done even before the 40 hrs. And yes I then only get paid the hours I say I work (Im honest). I do not get benefits,vacation pay, nothing.
> We get a lot of work done in the usual week. I believe he makes buco bucks off me. How do I politey say "hey, Im worth more!"
> Please help!!! What is a carpenter making these days; I'm in the comercial end of construction, such as apartment high rises.
> Thanks-
> J:thumbsup:



I do the same work as you for around the same price. I know i am worth more, and so does my boss, and every 3 or 4 months he shows me his intentions are to keep me around by giving me a raise, or a nice new tool to expand my collection. Now, ive had offers to work for other companys, for around the same rate, without any of the hassles/headaches of project management. So why didnt i take any of these jobs? Because with my current role, i have the opportunity to learn a lot about estimating, writing quotes, dealing with lazy kids, and annoying ho's, skilles that will all prepare me for a few years into the future when i want to run my own. These things always end up costing the new contractor big $$ when they are first getting started, so if you are getting them working with someone elses $$ and good name, maybe you should think of that lower wage as paying your dues. Thats how ive been looking at it. Cant really say for you specific situation tho, cause i am slowly rewarded for all my hard work. If you dont feel rewarded by what you do, maybe you should do something else/ do it somewhere else?


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Central Nova said:


> I do the same work as you for around the same price. I know i am worth more, and so does my boss, and every 3 or 4 months he shows me his intentions are to keep me around by giving me a raise, or a nice new tool to expand my collection. Now, ive had offers to work for other companys, for around the same rate, without any of the hassles/headaches of project management. So why didnt i take any of these jobs? Because with my current role, i have the opportunity to learn a lot about estimating, writing quotes, dealing with lazy kids, and annoying ho's, skilles that will all prepare me for a few years into the future when i want to run my own. These things always end up costing the new contractor big $$ when they are first getting started, so if you are getting them working with someone elses $$ and good name, maybe you should think of that lower wage as paying your dues. Thats how ive been looking at it. Cant really say for you specific situation tho, cause i am slowly rewarded for all my hard work. If you dont feel rewarded by what you do, maybe you should do something else/ do it somewhere else?


You seem to be a pretty smart young? man. Nice to learn on someone eles $


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## woodbutchr (Jul 31, 2007)

If ya could but a man for what he's worth & sell him for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be rich!


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

THINKING about how much i earn/and how much i vacation = BAD EMPLOYEE


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> A guy gets a raise and complains about it. I had to check the date of this post to make sure it wasn't a 3 year old post, cause I could have sworn this was still December 7th 2008. Anybody read a newspaper lately?


That's what I thought.
If I'm guessing your age right, 
all you have ever known are the easiest,
fattest times that I can remember.
Maybe time to put down the _Maxim_
and pick up the newspaper.
Last I checked there are more people 
being laid off than being hired, more
established companies going under,
than new ones prospering.
In a few months, $13 an hour may 
sound like a pretty good deal to you.


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

genecarp said:


> THINKING about how much i earn/and how much i vacation = BAD EMPLOYEE


Nope it equals a successful business man that deserves what he was earned


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

CrpntrFrk said:


> Please don't post like that again. That was too close to sounding like 3rd party Bill.:laughing:


 Ouch! Yuck, You're right...that sucked, thanks for pointing that out.


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

woodbutchr said:


> If ya could but a man for what he's worth & sell him for what he thinks he's worth, you'd be rich!


I can't resist this one...how do you "but" a man..?(maybe I shouldn't ask)
Sorry Butcher, that's a funny typo!:laughing:


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

DecksEtc said:


> Look at the other thread, ja-builder is a "business owner" in that one


 Then this is horseshirt and not worth a reply.


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

ChainsawCharlie said:


> I told a boss one time "You can't keep treating employess like that. I'm going to make enough money to buy this company and make you the janitor."
> 
> His response-"It's good to have that kind of ambition. I truly hope you do make enough money to buy this company. But you won't make that kind of dough here, and I don't want to stand in the way of your dreams. You're fired."


 :clap::laughing:


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## Ivinni (Jan 11, 2008)

Central Nova said:


> I do the same work as you for around the same price. I know i am worth more, and so does my boss, and every 3 or 4 months he shows me his intentions are to keep me around by giving me a raise, or a nice new tool to expand my collection. Now, ive had offers to work for other companys, for around the same rate, without any of the hassles/headaches of project management. So why didnt i take any of these jobs? Because with my current role, i have the opportunity to learn a lot about estimating, writing quotes, dealing with lazy kids, and annoying ho's, skilles that will all prepare me for a few years into the future when i want to run my own. These things always end up costing the new contractor big $$ when they are first getting started, so if you are getting them working with someone elses $$ and good name, maybe you should think of that lower wage as paying your dues. Thats how ive been looking at it. Cant really say for you specific situation tho, cause i am slowly rewarded for all my hard work. If you dont feel rewarded by what you do, maybe you should do something else/ do it somewhere else?


Learning how manage the job:

expenses
workers
customers.

I see somebody has it right.


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm aware of a whole factory full of window-making employees in Chicago who think they aren't making what they're worth right now.


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## ja-builder (Nov 21, 2008)

Hmm.. Okay, thanks for all of the advice (specially curiouscanuck and pinnacle). I am grateful for this site, I really enjoy all the feed back from others from all over the nation. Not all people can be calculated to be the same here though. And yes...I understand the economy sucks...and yes I am thankful for my job... but no I will not wait for it to turn around!!! I have things to do other than wait for people to "change" this mess. 
What do I think I am worth........20/hr. At least then I could get my own health ins. and help out the savings for my "new" baby. Oh, yeah wait. I dont think Ill get to see him born because I have no vacation pay, and I can't afford to take a day off. Maybe Ill find state monies huh.
Why Do I think Im worth more....thats a touchy subject. I believe there is a lot to be shown to others (more hands-on) then to just spew out some words. But I just know that my existence on this earth should be able to get paid enough to have and raise a good family. 

Thanks-
J


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

Funny thing about life, is that it has an uncanny and cruel way of usually giving one exactly what he/she deserves.

Wow, that really hurts.


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

ja-builder said:


> Hmm.. Okay, thanks for all of the advice (specially curiouscanuck and pinnacle). I am grateful for this site, I really enjoy all the feed back from others from all over the nation. Not all people can be calculated to be the same here though. And yes...I understand the economy sucks...and yes I am thankful for my job... but no I will not wait for it to turn around!!! I have things to do other than wait for people to "change" this mess.
> 
> *Glad to hear it*
> 
> ...


My .02 above - good luck


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Okay J, let's back up a bit and take a look at your original post and break it down. I'll try to explain why you've gotten some of the negative responses that you did.



ja-builder said:


> Yup, I just received a dollar raise(that puts me at 13/hr). I am grateful for the offering, *but thats just it, an offering*.


Saying this completely contradicts you saying "you're grateful" and comes off as sour grapes and makes you appear as though you're whining about it.




ja-builder said:


> I have been working for my boss for 14 mo. now, and Ive had earlier experience before this. In the past 14 mo. hes taken 6 weeks of vacation, leaving me in charge. I get everything done even before the 40 hrs. And yes I then only get paid the hours I say I work (Im honest).


Complaining about your boss' vacation again comes off as sounding whiny and juvenile. I would venture to say that you have no idea how many hours of work your boss puts in outside the time you see him on a work site. A typical day for myself starts at around 5:30/6:00 a.m. and usually doesn't end until at least 9:00 p.m. You may only see him around a work site for a few hours a day but I suspect you may not have a full understanding of how hard/long he works.



ja-builder said:


> I do not get benefits,vacation pay, nothing.
> We get a lot of work done in the usual week. I believe he makes buco bucks off me. How do I politey say "hey, Im worth more!"
> Please help!!! What is a carpenter making these days; I'm in the comercial end of construction, such as apartment high rises.
> Thanks-
> J:thumbsup:


I would have to assume that benefits were not part of your compensation package when you accepted the job. If so, and I suspect this was the case, you really have no right to complain about it. No one forced you to take this job - sorry if that comes off as harsh but the world is not a walk down a garden path.

Now, with all that said, if you truly think you're worth more then sit down with your boss and approach your situation rationally and maturely and explain yourself with concrete examples to support your position. I doubt you'll get bumped to your target of $20/hr overnight but perhaps you and he can come up with a plan to get you to that number in a reasonable period of time. If his answer is "there's no way you're getting that kind of pay any time soon", or something to that effect, then at least you know where you stand.

FYI, drop your stance that he's "making buco bucks off you" - that's the way business works. If he and his company didn't make money then you'd be making $0/hr, because you'd be out of a job. I'd wager a bet that he started out making a LOT less per hour than you do now.

I truly hope this helps.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Best thing you could do is stop being a whiney puke. Start by going in tomorrow and quitting. Next go get your job at $20 an hour or more. If you land it you might be right about what you are worth. If you land it and keep it you were right. 

There is nothing like going out and swinging the bat and putting one out of the park, it beats the hell out of sitting on the bench and telling the bat boy how much you are worth to the team day in and day out.


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## copusbuilder (Nov 8, 2005)

As I recently explained to my brother, business is the art of human manipulation. I exploit my employess as much as I can. When they kick their heels I throw them a bone to keep them happy.
I treat them well, but only well enough.

Very few succeed and prosper working for others, unfortunately self employment is not meant for everybody.

Look after yourself, no one else will


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## MMC73 (Aug 31, 2008)

I started out in this business working for my grandfather for $5 a day to earn pocket money. It takes a long time to become efficent and it requires a lot of hard work, from the bottom up. Unless someone is willing to hand you a business welcome to the real world. In this economy most folks are happy to be busy read some of the posts from other contractors. If you know you are worth more go out and get but don't begrudge someone you are working for the ability to take vacations and make money off of your back, that is after all why you were hired.


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## vital151 (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey I need a good lead guy, if you want come down here and I'll give you a try at $20 per hour.


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## Mike(VA) (Jan 9, 2008)

Ja, listen to Mike.....but remember, the best time to look for a job is when you already have one. Don't quit your day job until you have a new one and don't look for a new one while on your day job. 

One point to think about since you want to start your own business is get better educated. Your complaint that the boss makes all this money and takes all this time off tells everyone that you don't have too much of a clue as to what it takes to run a business. You said he makes buco bucks off of you however, if you knew what it takes to run a business, you wouldn't be complaining that he makes money off of you, you would be trying to emmulate him. 

I am sure most of us who own (or have owned) our own businesses have been where you are. We spent half of our time dreaming about what it would be like to be our own boss and the other half thinking about how to go about it. Could it be that you have deminished your own value to your boss because you aren't giving him 110%? 

(Retorical questions). Do you know all about his personal life? Maybe he takes all that vacation because his wife makes decent money or he has family obligations that require his time. Point is, you don't know everything and don't understand everything. 

You could have made your point by saying that while the boss is away, he left you in charge. Instead, you coupled that with the fact he takes 6 weeks vacation and makes buco bucks off of you. That sounds a lot like you are bitching about what he does not looking at what you do.

Give me 110% while you are here, and when it is time to go, we both can look back and say it was a good run.


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## WilsonRMDL (Sep 4, 2007)

Trust me man, deal with it for now and things will come around. My daughter was born on Nov.1st, I got laid off on Oct.31st, I was told it was for 3 days, its now going on a month and a half. I make $19/hr doing commercial millwork installation, I also run my own business doing remodels etc. Since the economy is so great right now I've settled for $14/hr with a real estate investor who has been flipping 1 house per month and has the money to keep going. I started out in a cabinet shop for $6/hr working for a guy who made it known he had $1million in savings, you have to remember that everyone starts at the bottom, dont get mad about your boss making money and paying you a small amount of it. I'm sure he was in your shoes when he was coming up in the ranks, I'm sure he's also lost money on some jobs that he's still paid you your hourly rate. So like the others have said, dont burn your bridges. This guy might pay less, but he keeps you busy. As far as not being able to see your baby born because you dont have vacation pay? Take a few days off its not gonna kill you or your boss. Is losing $104 worth missing your child being born? If you want to start your own business go for it, but $20/hr running your own business is a joke, you'll learn that with overhead and insurance, all the running around you do to get work, etc. That $20/hr will turn into about $6. I'm not trying to be a dick with this response but I know how it is and I've always thought the same way. Be glad you have a ton of work at $13/hr, and if you do move on and things might fall through, that guy will still be willing to give you a job for all the hardwork you put in for him.


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## Mellison (Aug 3, 2008)

My grandmother had a saying: You can't count someone else's money.
It was true 50 years ago and it is still true today.


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## ja-builder (Nov 21, 2008)

Wow, thanks guys(or ladies too?).
Thanks for all the great feedback, this is what I've been looking for. Some "real" stuff and "keep your head up" stuff. I didn't start this thread to sound like a "whiny puke" like someone had said. Just trying to understand and learn from others. I really am learning from this, again thanks everyone! I will keep this thread updated, if anyone wants to keep tabs on where I am headed.(next stop..hopefully forward or even up the ladder
oh yeah, hey vital151 where are you located? No let downs writing here!!
Thanks
J-


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

ja-builder,

In my experiences, when hourly employees start concerning themselves with when the boss goes on vacation or whether the boss is making to much money off of them, something in your attitude has soured. You wouldn't be thinking this way unless number one you're jealous, number two you recently overheard a homeowner or saw a homeowner hand over a large amount of money to your boss and that pissed you off. Your job is not to think about money or where your boss vacations at, it's to perform the labor necessary to accomplish the job. That's what he's paying you for, you don't supply the tools, insurance, advertising, paperwork, and I'm sure you're not meeting with John and Susie HO at 7 in the evening to discuss their future project. All of these important business functions takes time and money and is the exact reasons your boss is entitled to those vacations and the big paydays. 

Now, if you're ready to tackle the above mentioned requirements of running a successful business, then quit moaning and get the capital to start your own gig. I also didn't mention all of the tasks and skills required to run a successful business, those are just the tip of the iceberg IMO. I'll bet you're making exactly what you're worth....


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

So ja, what are others performing the same tasks as you, in a similar sized business earning? Geographical location is extremely important when trying to determine cash value. 

I would be less concerned about time on the job as actual activities on the job. You think a CEO getting paid $12 million gets started at $13/hr and then gets a review after a year and a raise to $12 mil? Of course not. Any given job has a range of pay that is appropriate for the knowledge and ability that come with the employee and time on the job does not change that.

If you are worth $20/hr and the job you are doing justifies it and this guy won;t pay it, then go elsewhere to somebody that will. Just realize that you may not be worth as much as you claim to be or your abilities do not justify the pay you expect. You may not find anybody else willing to pay you what your believe you are worth either.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I remember about 9 months ago when I was hiring I had all these F**King IDIOTS! showing up wanting $25 hr minimum. This was just about in the beginning or middle of the time new construction was taking a hit and there were tons of MORONS pouring out of new construction, getting laid off, fired or whatever. I was a little bit less experienced and knowledgeable then and I figured, well if everybody keeps telling me they want $6-$8 more an hour then what I thought I should be paying then I must be the one that needs to refigure the pay rate. 

Long story short I hired over the course of 3 months probably 8 of these MORONS. And keep in mind these were the ones who got hired, they made it past all the screening, interviewing ect... for the 8 I actually gave a shot I probably meet with 30 and looked at 150 applications.

Most of these guys were experienced and were running crews and all the rest. They wanted to be lead carpenters, but they wanted to be more leads then carpenters. I think they thought construction means 7 hours a day in the trailer ordering subs around. 

I remember about in the middle of this as I was becoming more and more wary and tired of it all I asked one of them before hiring point blank - are you sure you are ready to get dirty? You've been running a crew, this is not carrying around a clip board... he swore up and down he wanted to get away from the daily supervision aspects and get into the working part of it again. He lasted 1 day. The next morning he called me and told me I guess you were right.  He was just one story. I loved the guy who didn't wear bags, told me he hasn't worn them in 20 years.  Or they guy who got defeated by the auto-colated screw gun. I came in to find him trying to get it off the sub-floor, he had actually screwed the tip of the gun onto the subfloor! I'm not kidding.

Bottom line is all these prima-donnas went to the way side. I finally hired a guy at the wages I thought I should be hiring at, not at $25 an hour. He works hard, acts like man not some kid who thinks he should be owning the company after a year. He's seen it all, done it all and worth every penny.

I just wonder now where all those new construction prima-donnas ended up? Probably worked a few jobs at lower wages in construction after months of being told no to their $25 hour demands, and are now out of the construction business, probably assistant managers at Dairy Queen. 

This probably comes across as bitter, but it's really not, it's more about frustration as an employer.

Finding employees who are actually worth what they think they are is the hardest part. If a guy was actually worth $25 /hr then that would be great, problem is they are rare. So many of those guys rode the new construction boom gravey train (and good for them, I have no problem with somebody making a good living) so far that their expectations are out of wack now. They have to understand that their employer doesn't print the money they use to pay their paychecks, that money comes from customers. 

I remember one guy who wanted $45 an hour. He was working for himself and figured that was about right.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

> but no I will not wait for it to turn around!!!


:thumbsup:

Way to go, I like your attitude. Employers and GCs will always try to bleed you dry, that is the nature of the beast.

Incidentally, it does not take $40K to $50K to start a contracting business, a cell phone, a couple of business cards and drive are sufficient.

Good luck.

Mark

"You don't get what you deserve , you get what you negotiate."


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

MarkNoV said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Way to go, I like your attitude. Employers and GCs will always try to bleed you dry, that is the nature of the beast.
> 
> ...


not needing 40k?

what about tools?

a truck?

a place to do business?

an attorney (if you are smart, you will glue yourself to his hip)

material purchasing money?

money for you to live on until the big dough starts rolling in?

40-50 is a very low estimate of what might get you going. You could easily spend 2, 3, 4, times that and still run tight.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

MarkNoV said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Incidentally, it does not take $40K to $50K to start a contracting business, a cell phone, a couple of business cards and drive are sufficient.


How much does it cost?


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Celtic said:


> How much does it cost?


I started with $30,000 and it could have been more. If he would look at the overall picture and try to compete with a legitimate contractor he would understand.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

am I the only one who gets excited when the boss or contractor says they're too busy to be around the job today? am I the only one who gets really happy when they say their going on vacation for a week or so. I can't think of anything better I even walk them to their truck and wish them the best time in the world because I know I'll be having one. 

the less the boss is around the better the job is!!!


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