# Mold growth on framing?



## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Hello all,
I am the GC on this house and also the Framer. This house is in Western Washington and, as the lot gets absolutly no sun throughout the day, the framing has been wet since I started framing in early October. The house will be roofed this week. 

There is minimal mold on the regular framing lumber, however there is significant mold on the underside of the osb subfloor. I feel that this is equivilent to an act of nature, the same as a tree falling through the house. However the HO asked me to pay half of any mold abatment costs . I refused, stating that I cannot control the weather, the sunlight (or lack of) that the home is exposed to or the mold spores that naturally occur in the air. Now I am wondering if I will be paid in full at the end of the month.

Has anyone delt with this issue before?


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

jhark123 said:


> Hello all,
> I am the GC on this house and also the Framer. This house is in Western Washington and, as the lot gets absolutly no sun throughout the day, the framing has been wet since I started framing in early October. The house will be roofed this week.
> 
> There is minimal mold on the regular framing lumber, however there is significant mold on the underside of the osb subfloor. I feel that this is equivilent to an act of nature, the same as a tree falling through the house. However the HO asked me to pay half of any mold abatment costs . I refused, stating that I cannot control the weather, the sunlight (or lack of) that the home is exposed to or the mold spores that naturally occur in the air. Now I am wondering if I will be paid in full at the end of the month.
> ...




Who purchased the lot?


Who drew the plans?


Who signed on the line?


Who built their Hopes and Dreams in the wettest Climate in the Continental US of A?



Nuff said?


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## precisionbuild (Nov 17, 2008)

Mold remediation is not hard or expensive. Do it yourself.


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## smadax (Oct 8, 2008)

jhark123 said:


> There is minimal mold on the regular framing lumber, however there is significant mold on the underside of the osb subfloor. I feel that this is equivilent to an act of nature, the same as a tree falling through the house.


Makes sense to me!

There are products that we use on old decks before we repaint, it's like an organic bleach specifically for wood products and it safely cleans all residue and mold. Fairly inexpensive because it's diluted in lots of water and works great, with little effort to apply.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Who purchased the lot?HO
> 
> 
> Who drew the plans?HO picked them
> ...


The rain makes framing fun:no:


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## Blast&Coat (Jan 15, 2009)

Tell him it will cost 2grand, let him pay you 1000 then go buy the cleaning stuff for 150 bucks do it yourself and make some more money if he is gonna be like that.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

jhark123 said:


> The rain makes framing fun:no:


I was close..........as per the wetness!!!!


As I said .........Nuff said?


and I do agree......Split the 'Cost" and do it yerself! At a MASSIVE Profit!


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## Msargent (Oct 30, 2008)

Power washer rental 50 bucks 5 gal empty pail free, 1 gal bleach, 1 box tsp, simple green 12 bucks. day to do it your self or crew or hire local painter to pwr wash done.GL


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Blast&Coat said:


> Tell him it will cost 2grand, let him pay you 1000 then go buy the cleaning stuff for 150 bucks do it yourself and make some more money if he is gonna be like that.


 
I am thinking this is a good way to go, anybody have any products you have used with success?


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## olyteddy (Oct 27, 2006)

Msargent said:


> ...1 gal bleach, 1 box tsp, simple green 12 bucks...


 That sounds like a good recipe to me. Cheaper than the '30 Second Cleaner' stuff they advertise, and pretty much the same ingredients.


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## rewrew87 (Dec 14, 2008)

Yeah man... he wants to screw you, so just turn it around on him. Do it yourself for cheap and charge him up the whazoo! :clap:


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

I have framed with 2 x 6 D.F. that came straight out of the lumberyard with black mold on it. Should that be mitigated too before the walls are closed?

Amnd for the original question, hey, you didn't do anything to cause that mold, or create the condition that did cause it. What, if thee's an avalanche tha's your problem too?

I like the $2000 split to $1000, actual cost $150 formula.
F 'em.


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## parts (Jan 28, 2009)

Do it yourself yeah take on that lawsuit alone heck your insurance company probably won't back you up unless mold remediation is in your policy. And yes they ask me every year when I renew


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*$13 million lawsuit*

http://www.moldinspector.com/mold-lumberyard-victory.htm

This is a link to a case settled for $22 million for mold on new lumber.

We do mold restoration and what you think is not important. It is what the jury thinks.

I think most mold remediation companies are crooks, but you can get sued for $millions by trying to avoid these crooks. You create your problem when you do not use the protocol that these crooks schemed and devised only so you better use them or get sued .

This is what will happen. You touch the mold without using the phony baloney protocol, equipment, containment, etc., and you will be sued for spreading mold and cross-contamination. You may be even sued by neighbors for spreading mold spores to their homes. Your customer is going to go brain-dead due to mold that is harmless and he won't be able to function sexually. You are going to have a hard time proving that he can and you may not be able to prove that he was impotent before you installed the lumber.

It is a Catch-22. This is what I would do. Find a company that sprays new construction with a mold inhibitor. Maybe you have seen their ads. They usually give something like a 10 or 25 year guarantee. Can't remember.

Here is the better part. Sell this treatment to your customer as a treatment and not as a cure. If the customer refuses to pay for the treatment, tell the customer that you must document your recommendation. This will help to protect you if your customer refuses your recommendation.

Drop the ball in the customer's lap, pass the liability to the treatment company, and mark up the treatment for a great profit.

CYA - Get everything is writing. Document everything you do. Take pictures. Make the customer accountable for their decisions. Get signatures, or don't do anything until you do get the problem resolved and a signature.


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## Balian (Sep 20, 2008)

Did you explain to the owner, that by framing in the winter time, you run the risk of something like this? Mold, warped wood etc.

If not, write it into the next contract, and have the owner initial/sign right beside the waiver.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

look into a product called Shockwave for treating the mold. It's diluted and sprayed. Use a HEPA vacuum to remove the mold.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

it is highly recommended to remove the neutralized mold-killing it is not enough. Hence, the vacuuming part is important!


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*I could not find a HEPA vacuum*



72chevy4x4 said:


> look into a product called Shockwave for treating the mold. It's diluted and sprayed. Use a HEPA vacuum to remove the mold.


I went to to Super Duper a large supplier of mold remediation equipment and they said there is no such animal as a HEPA vacuum. They told me to get a Shop Vac and buy a HEPA filter at Home Depot. Is there a vacuum made specifically for mold that has a better design?


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

pcplumber said:


> I went to to Super Duper a large supplier of mold remediation equipment and they said *there is no such animal as a HEPA vacuum. *They told me to get a Shop Vac and buy a HEPA filter at Home Depot. Is there a vacuum made specifically for mold that has a better design?



There is no such Animal.

*H*igh *E*fficiency *P*articulate *A*ir (filter) describes the Filtering Media.........NOT the sucking device!!! (.3 Micrometers...or...0.3 μm)

Not unlike *HEGA*.




As for the Sucker...........Look in to a "Bio-Hazard" unit!


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*Thank you.*



MALCO.New.York said:


> There is no such Animal.
> 
> *H*igh *E*fficiency *P*articulate *A*ir (filter) describes the Filtering Media.........NOT the sucking device!!! (.3 Micrometers...or...0.3 μm)
> 
> ...


Thank you very much.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Balian said:


> Did you explain to the owner, that by framing in the winter time, you run the risk of something like this? Mold, warped wood etc.
> 
> If not, write it into the next contract, and have the owner initial/sign right beside the waiver.


Trust me, it's already written into my basic contract template.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Just to give everyone an update... The mold remediation contractor they hired came to the jobsite to look at the problem. They asked him a bunch of leading questions: Is this unusual in new construction? No, I see it all the time in houses framed in the winter What could have been done to prevent this? Nothing. Etc, etc. So, after he reafirmed my position they stopped asking me to pay for the work. I got payed and they seem like happy clients. However, I am going to be on guard for the rest of the project


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

I made some consulting money when a contractor did a bad job that required the drywall to be torn out, remediated and replaced.(2200 sf home). Before he got done, the mold came back and everything in the interior had to be removed again and replaced, including the tile floors, lightweight concrete, bathroom tile and dry wall and many kitchen and bathroom cabinets. After the first problem he was still sloppy about protecting storing materials. - Some people think they know it all.

It was an open and shut case to look at and evaluate and since he was the contractor that had total control, it was his responsibility (and his insurer possibly) since he tried a cheap quick and dirty DIY approach and never looked for a mold analysis or considered and expert. After a $750,000 loss he is out of business. He also designed the work and did not use anyone else. A bad deal, but the house was not usable or livable.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

where was the moisture coming from that made the mold come back again and again?


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

jhark123 said:


> Well, actually the Olympic mountains in W.WA are the wettest climate in USA, were 2nd:thumbup:


Mt. Waialeale. Kauai, Hawaii, USA.

Average annual rainfall: 462 inches. Your 3rd.:clap:

Record is 762, I believe.


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