# pine and others for exterior trim



## 415moto

Anyone have any beef or opinion with using pine or other similar softwood for exterior trim, woodwork or other outside fascia type cladding?

Generally we go for PS or redwood for the most part, sometimes vinyl trim for outside work. But now and then a HO will want to use pine (cheaper:whistling ). We back prime the wood as well, and nail 'er up. With exterior paint and full coating, ya'll think its good, bad, same?


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## Bradracer18

In my opinion, and I don't have much experience here......but I don't like wood showing, for one it always needs attention(paint,etc)....and especially pine seems to rot out.


I like, as you said vinyl or steel wrapped wood....


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## Joasis

It has been done this way for a hundred years....and if given maintenance, like painting when needed, will last a hundred I am sure. Pine is never my first choice for trim, but it is done all the time on less expensive homes.


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## Mr. D

i think you should be just fine. I've pulled apart rotten cedar almost as many times as i have rotten pine. maintenance is the key.


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## Bradracer18

yes maintenance.......but, unless that is what they want......then do it a better way......which requires basically no maintenance.


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## 415moto

(above the PS meant to say PT, as in pressure treated)

I figure we frame houses all the time with doug fir and often theyre exposed to rain and nature, with only paint to protect it (eaves, soffits, etc)..and they do OK for the most part.

Paint and coverage really is the key to longevity aint it. Ive seen so many houses were we pull stuff apart and often the portions left to neglect and no paint are the areas that failed and rotted.


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## Teetorbilt

Cedar will outlast pine 3 to 1 for exterior trim HERE.


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## cmwacasey

for what it is worth in texas.i have learned that cedar post grown in west texas last substantially longer than post grown in the east.as a side note, post on this website last longer than???----??????help me out i am not sure.


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## Downeast

Pine trim is used most all of the time here on Cape Cod . On all homes rich and poor. Some will use cedar. Allot of it is pre primed now.


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## dougchips

PFJ is popular around here, it comes primed, people never paint it and the joints show. I have been quilty of writing on the trim "needs to be painted or it will fall apart" and showing the customer.


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## Downeast

dougchips said:


> PFJ is popular around here, it comes primed, people never paint it and the joints show. I have been quilty of writing on the trim "needs to be painted or it will fall apart" and showing the customer.



Fortunatly its not finger jointed yet. 1x3 may be, but not the larger stock.


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## dougchips

HD and LWes sell 1x4,5,6,8,10 in 16' lengths, you have to pick through it some of the joints are real visible.


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## Downeast

dougchips said:


> HD and LWes sell 1x4,5,6,8,10 in 16' lengths, you have to pick through it some of the joints are real visible.



Thanks I wasn't aware that they were. Local lumber yards are still good.


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## gregg9375

I have been using APP (Advantage Pine Prime) for the past 14 years. The product is finger jointed and primed all four sides. When properly installed and kept away from the dirt it will last a very long time. Wood is a renewable source, plastic is not.


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## TBFGhost

Finger joint Pine is fine for exterior use IF its rated for exterior use. 
There is a difference between it and normal PFJ. IIRC the exterior stuff is treated with something to resist rot and insects.

I won't use any PFJ other then WindsorOne Plus Protected.... Go to the windsor one site and they will tell you the difference between WindsorOne and Plus Protected. You also have to do more then just back prime. You MUST MUST MUST prime ALL six sides...that means front, back, top, bottom and end cuts. But that goes for any wood trim. 

I have seen boards where there was no end priming and ones where they were. The ones without primer on all six sides started to crack and check 1 year later, the others looked brand new still.


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## WarnerConstInc.

cypress if you please


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## loneframer

Don't forget Miratec as an option.

I've seen it used on several homes along the coast with great results.:thumbsup:

http://www.miratectrim.com/


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## LEVELBEST

loneframer said:


> Don't forget Miratec as an option.
> 
> I've seen it used on several homes along the coast with great results.:thumbsup:
> 
> http://www.miratectrim.com/


:clap::clap::clap:

Miratec sure looks like it would fall apart if it gets wet, but it doesn't seem to bother it at all. I've had some stacks of Miratec lay in a driveway for several weeks, uncovered and during several rains, and it looked like it had just been delivered the day I installed it.


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## loneframer

LEVELBEST said:


> :clap::clap::clap:
> 
> Miratec sure looks like it would fall apart if it gets wet, but it doesn't seem to bother it at all. I've had some stacks of Miratec lay in a driveway for several weeks, uncovered and during several rains, and it looked like it had just been delivered the day I installed it.


The first time I saw it, I thought it was simply a Masonite type product. The difference is the resins used in the manufacturing process. I've gone back to jobs that were 4-5 years old and the material was solid on the end cuts, as well as the edges.


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## gregg9375

You are right the cut ends need to be primed in order to protect the wood. Some have told me that regular paint will work, not true. Primer is a seal and is not pores like regular paint. APP is an exterior product. If the exterior for the home is to be stained, then I would go with ceder not redwood. I have also used Plywood Lam, and Harty Plank.


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## TBFGhost

Yeah, PRIMER the ends. I use Zinsser Cover Stain. Thick, Sticks like crazy, drys fast. Spray cans are the hot ticket. They are a fast, no mess application...

Ever used that "End Cuts" primer? The stuff that looks like shoe shine daubers? Its lasts about 2 days and the foam dauber dries out...once that happens its toast as the dauber falls apart when you try and use it again.


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## gregg9375

The Zinsser works the best, I have used that other stuff. I ended up going back to Zinsser. When trimming around doors and windows, I like using PL caulking at the ends (after primer) for a better seal, works great on miter ends.


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## gregg9375

This Wed I will triming around a few exterior doors. Someone used 2x4 DF (no primer), looks like a hack job. I will be using APP S3S for the project, the re-sawn side will be facing out.


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## mudpad

In my brief career working for a high end home builder/ remodeler, we used clear douglas fir for all exterior trim. 

Don't know how it held up, cause like I said, that career was brief. 

As far as my own house, I used #2 white pine. Back primed and primed at the joints. I keep it painted, and the gutters cleaned out, and it still looks great after 16 years.


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## Tom Struble

i saw this product at jlc

http://www.bodyguardwood.com/


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## TBFGhost

mudpad said:


> In my brief career working for a high end home builder/ remodeler, we used clear douglas fir for all exterior trim.
> 
> Don't know how it held up, cause like I said, that career was brief.
> 
> As far as my own house, I used #2 white pine. Back primed and primed at the joints. I keep it painted, and the gutters cleaned out, and it still looks great after 16 years.


 
Exactly my point. Yes, cedar is better but simply to waste such a limited natural resource on something like exterior trim is a shame. Pine can be used and it will hold up, but you need to apply it correctly. I find that nine times out of ten, rotting trim on homes is caused by faulty installation and most people just blame it on the wood to cover their lack of skill/knowledge.


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## TBFGhost

tomstruble said:


> i saw this product at jlc
> 
> http://www.bodyguardwood.com/


Biggest thing I want to know is how it holds up to carpenter bees...they are what always seems to eat at the trim around here.


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## Tom Struble

30 year warrenty on rot,decay and insect damage

they will suppy replacement boards,pay for removal and replacement,re putty ,re caulking and top coat


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## world llc

pine has been used over hard woods forever mainly because it's soft and tools easily. look at any old home, pine clap board, fir framing, syp floors (white pine in even older homes)

obviously electric and the skill saw has changed the way we work with wood and science has given us miratec and azek.... however, old historic homes 100, 200, even 300 years old that have been maintained are just as solid (if not stronger) than new homes.

pine is great stuff, just make sure you prime it with a premium primer

i no longer use zinzer after learning about all the drying agents they put in the cover stain and how it causes a weak bond. did an exterior about 9 years ago and got a call about 3 or 4 years later about some of the paint flaking and some of the ends splitting. an old school painter at the paint store i was telling the story at explained to me that with oil, the faster the dry, the weaker the bond! also true with painting latex in direct sunlight... asking for future failure.


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## Bweikel

Look at bodyguard products all pre primed pine from new Zealand.

"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." -- Alice Walker


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## redwood

we've used the bodyguarded New Zealand pine, and it looks great. Only time will tell if it's what is cracked up to be. First siding project is about 3 years old, and still looks great.


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## Bweikel

redwood said:


> we've used the bodyguarded New Zealand pine, and it looks great. Only time will tell if it's what is cracked up to be. First siding project is about 3 years old, and still looks great.


We use there products all the time even when it's not bodyguard it's another brand of the same design. 

We also use it for trim, soffits, facia you name it.

Did have trouble with the siding once on a project few years ago working for a GC but I think it was due to the method of rain screen they had us install.

"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." -- Alice Walker


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## PrestigeR&D

You know,
Your going to paint it, so why not by a 4x8x3/4" Azak - if you do the value vs cost and throw in some logic, it will never rot,you can paint it any color under the rainbow, all you have to do is rip it to size-10-15 min per sheet, - just something to think about.... I pay $175.00 for that. at around $7.00 for a 4"x 8' x 3/4" of SP x 12 , you come up with $84.00 + TX it's around $90.00 , now you have to season the board with some primer- the entire board, then paint them. With Azak there is no moisture to push the paint out. The paint will last longer , doesn't require a primer and you get a nice clean look when completed. 
So your client is saving $90.00, but spending more on the preparation and maintenance later on. So you give a higher price for your product using Azak but the results and performance are not even close when you take everything into account....
Just a thought...

B, :thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble

because Brian ,azek ain't all it's cracked up to be and in long lenghts there is way too much movement,i would never use it again for facia,crown ect..wood properly flashed and protected with a high quality finish can last just fine

now for window/door trim or other short lenght details in exposed locations azek or miratec is the way to go


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## world llc

it is not recomended to paint pvc dark colors...


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## Bweikel

I'll have to look into the azek not big around here never seen it but I hear it come up alot on CT.

"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." -- Alice Walker


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