# Basement stairs outside



## Dave in Pa (Oct 10, 2009)

Might be putting in a basement entrance with a pre-cast stair unit, and a "billco" type door. I have never done this before, and was wondering about the pro's and con's of it? Anything to look out for and hints will be greatly helpful! And please don't say to hire someone, I have been in the trades for 30 + years, just never done this! And this is for my own home. Thanks, dave


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Do you have frost to content with? I.e what is your code for footings below grade? That now becomes below the slab at the bottom of your walkout, you must also underpin the existing house wall in the area too.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

How do you put a footer under that?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Haha good question, I've never seen one like that, it wouldn't work in my area


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

It will work as long as you have a concrete foundation. If you have 8" block it might work if you have poured cells with steel. If hollow then I would have a mason build a bulkhead and frame some steps in it.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

It works with CMU foundation also, this was done with 12" block. The structure is bolted to the foundation and there is a support installed to hold it in place and back-fill when ready. Very simple.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

CMU that isnt poured?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Are you not insulating it somehow? Assuming it's not conditioned space what is preventing frost heave?


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Chris Johnson said:


> Are you not insulating it somehow? Assuming it's not conditioned space what is preventing frost heave?


No, there will be insulated door installed in the basement and you don't need anything else.

Chris, let me add that you will have your typical perimeter drainage around the foundation in new constructions, and if you doing this to existing house without perimeter drainage, putting clean stone under it would be a good idea.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

JBM said:


> CMU that isnt poured?


All you have to do is fill first two cores from the opening with mortar.


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## AmeliaP (Apr 22, 2007)

> Might be putting in a basement entrance with a pre-cast stair unit, and a "billco" type door. I have never done this before, and was wondering about the pro's and con's of it? Anything to look out for and hints will be greatly helpful! And please don't say to hire someone, I have been in the trades for 30 + years, just never done this! And this is for my own home. Thanks, dave


We work on these and around here (high water table) water infiltration is usually the biggest issue. Sometimes it's ground water and sometimes water getting in from the surrounding grade or roof.

Home value can be effected if it's a full basement. That probably depends on the area, but, for full basements here it used to be (might still be IDK) that the appraisers considered the basement value higher with indoor stairs with no door.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

I've never seen anything like that.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

greg24k said:


> No, there will be insulated door installed in the basement and you don't need anything else. Chris, let me add that you will have your typical perimeter drainage around the foundation in new constructions, and if you doing this to existing house without perimeter drainage, putting clean stone under it would be a good idea.


I've just never seen that setup. Here even on existing houses, we have to get the base below frost, or at a minimum do similar to a shallow footing detail with insulation.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Chris Johnson said:


> I've just never seen that setup. Here even on existing houses, we have to get the base below frost, or at a minimum do similar to a shallow footing detail with insulation.


Here the same thing, the footing needs to be bellow frost level. Every house with a basement (even crawl space or slab) your footing will be bellow the frost line (36" for most of the region, some places a little deeper). 

In the old days you would do a bilco door entrance and steps with block, then you buy just the hatch and you set on top of the block.

Now they make this all as one structure, it saves allot of pain in the a$$. You make a 40" opening in the foundation wall when you doing block, you tamper the soil on the outside, you make a 45 degree slope on the ramp in the front of it, tamper that also, and set the unit, attach it and you back-fill.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

TimelessQuality said:


> View attachment 115839
> 
> 
> How do you put a footer under that?





You do not have to. Finehome Building ran a detail several issues ago. They showed the frost protection being addressed with rigid foam insulation,similarly to a shallow frost free foundation would be.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Just a P.S, while the precast bilco is handy,the stairs feel more like a ladder than stairs to me. I would go the poured in place route if it was my home.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

fjn said:


> You do not have to. Finehome Building ran a detail several issues ago. They showed the frost protection being addressed with rigid foam insulation,similarly to a shallow frost free foundation would be.


Now that makes sense to me

I envisioned the frost lifting this thing from the shallow side (top of stair) and pushing the foundation wall into the basement


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

around here the precast company does the drilling , installation and bolting it to the foundation. All we have to do is install the bilco kit.

If your doing the install, seal the living "ship" out of it.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

jaydee said:


> around here the precast company does the drilling , installation and bolting it to the foundation. All we have to do is install the bilco kit.
> 
> If your doing the install, seal the living "ship" out of it.


Here also Jay, all you need is a hole and an opening, they will do the rest, attach it and seal it.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Relax guys :laughing: you don't need foam around it, you don't need waterproofing around it you don't need anything... as a matter a fact the say to keep waterproofing 10" away from the opening.

All you have to do is back-fill and temper the soil as you back-fill and this thing is not going anywhere, no heaving no nothing.


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