# Windows 10 - Bite Me !!!



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

2 nights ago, came over to the laptop to catch up on Facebook and other social media gossip sites like CT.

It has that damned spinning circle of marbles going with a warning to DO NOT TURN OFF, update in progress, 0% completed.

3 hours later, it reboots and states "update ha failed, please wait while we restore you system - and get this it literally, actually the fck has this text symbol: 

I'm going- oh chit.

Miracle of miracle, Windows 10 manages to reboot finally, after another HOUR.

So now I'm pissed. Windows 10 Home - can't turn off updates.
Windows 10 Pro - can - but you can't upgrade to Pro when you have an OEM edition of Home installed - must do a wipe/fresh install - no I'm not going to give up all that time to do this. Unless:


Windows 7 was wicked fast, never gave me chit. 

So now I've got HP OEM Windows 7 Pro SP1.

Is anyone going to stop me from dual partitioning? I'm going to pull the trigger on something. Living this way is madness.


What about Linux? A live distro that works & feels like Windows 7?


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

I never went past XP, I got tired of keeping it working. Did many reinstalls but XP was pretty good, it's just that the registry accumulates massive amounts of garbage. I hear a lot of complaints about W10 especially the update deal.

I have used numerous linux distros and settled on Mint. There's different flavors for a desktop but Cinnamon seems the best and where their focus is. There isn't a lot of difference in use really. You click this that drag poke just like windows.

Hardware wise it recognizes everything I've plugged into it, Android tablet, drawing tablets, phone, etc. I use the file manager to move files to and from the phone, it's easier. I imagine windows does that too.

There is no registry to swell up or corrupt on you. All programs run on top of the kernel so even large programs install quickly. Then you just run them, no set up. They uninstall almost instantly and leave nothing behind.

Linux sucks for games though, although Steam solves that somewhat, but limited in selection for Linux. I haven't looked into it for a long while though.

Updates are when you want and what you want. I usually do them all and on this ancient laptop (Vista vintage) it takes maybe 10 minutes at the largest, which typically includes one of the two browsers. Plus you can use the computer when it's doing it. Seldom needs to reboot, even with a kernel update.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

RangoWA said:


> I never went past XP, I got tired of keeping it working. Did many reinstalls but XP was pretty good, it's just that the registry accumulates massive amounts of garbage. I hear a lot of complaints about W10 especially the update deal.
> 
> I have used numerous linux distros and settled on Mint. There's different flavors for a desktop but Cinnamon seems the best and where their focus is. There isn't a lot of difference in use really. You click this that drag poke just like windows.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Will go look for Mint/Cinnamon.

The idea of being in the middle of something and this happening is beyond rational.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Download and burn to a dvd as an iso image. Makes it bootable. Then you can run it, although slowly. And gives the option to install from the desktop. If you do, I would recommend selecting the update on install option.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

I said iso file, I meant iso image.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

RangoWA said:


> Download and burn to a dvd as an iso file. Makes it bootable. Then you can run it, although slowly. And gives the option to install from the desktop. If you do, I would recommend selecting the update on install option.


My intent is to run it live, see if I can adapt.
Downloading 18.2 now.


Which anti-virus do you recommend? (lol) I swear the a/v & "HP Assistant" is what sucks the life out of this machine.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

SmallTownGuy said:


> My intent is to run it live, see if I can adapt.
> Downloading 18.2 now.
> 
> 
> Which anti-virus do you recommend? (lol) I swear the a/v & "HP Assistant" is what sucks the life out of this machine.


I've never used an A/V program on any of the distros. I'm not sure they have any these days. They used to have Clam but I never tried it.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

RangoWA said:


> I've never used an A/V program on any of the distros. I'm not sure they have any these days. They used to have Clam but I never tried it.


Yeah, I was kidding. That's one of the strong points of Linux above all else - its not bothered by malware.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

And that's why I got Win7 Pro with my new laptop. Updates are turned off. When I want them, I'll update manually.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I've been playing with this thing for the last month or so; came with Win 10 Pro pre-installed. You can turn off some of the updates, but some will happen no matter what you do unless you cut off internet access. It's almost ridiculous how often that thing phones home.

I'm actually kind of liking Win 10 after getting all of the options set the way I want (killed Cortana right out of the box). Still not ready to switch over to it as my main machine though.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076D2B8FB/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

I almost went the mini route when I built my htpc. Parts were too tiny and they cost more so I went up a size.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

This is no BS:

As I posted the last message, W10 said my file manager stopped responding - end program. 

Then it rebooted. Said "instaling updates". This apparently the failed update from before.

At 10:30 AM, it booted to the desktop said "Creators Update".

Yeah, now chrome barely runs, and my file manager is trashed.

I'm using the "Creators" name in vain on this happy horsechit.


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## GregB (Jan 8, 2016)

HP Computers - not the consumer junk - actual Computers, still mostly ship with Windows 7 Pro. We are using HP Workstations for all but the lightest office use and they have only about 10% of the models shipping with Win10. That is still far higher than the maximum percentage that ever shipped with Win8.
I just added two more Z2 Gen 3 workstations. My new personal unit is item Z2D61UT, which is E3-1245v5 16Gb 512Gb Z-Turbo NVidia M620 which will run 4 monitors. $1300. I added an additional 5Tb HD for local pics and videos.
Windows 10 is a joke for a real business.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Windows 10 works fine for me.

No problems so far.

I like it.

Andy.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Windows 10 works fine for me.
> 
> No problems so far.
> 
> ...


When it was brand new, W10 was... OK.

Home Edition is just plain bad - no control over what happens.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Never use the Home Edition of any system.

I haven't had any trouble with 10 either.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

GregB said:


> HP Computers - not the consumer junk - actual Computers, still mostly ship with Windows 7 Pro. We are using HP Workstations for all but the lightest office use and they have only about 10% of the models shipping with Win10. That is still far higher than the maximum percentage that ever shipped with Win8.
> I just added two more Z2 Gen 3 workstations. My new personal unit is item Z2D61UT, which is E3-1245v5 16Gb 512Gb Z-Turbo NVidia M620 which will run 4 monitors. $1300. I added an additional 5Tb HD for local pics and videos.
> Windows 10 is a joke for a real business.


What's the difference between consumer and actual computers? Video cards can be added if you need four monitors. Linux has has multiple workspaces for many years, with two monitors I had eight virtual monitors with open programs.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Yeah, you can pay a premium for high grade hardware, but the majority of "real businesses" run with the same stuff or actually lower grade than the youngsters' gaming machines. 

Where the rubber meets the road is in the software. In that sense, Win 10 is a fail with its arbitrary updates that despite the best intentions can easily break something that worked perfectly in a previous iteration.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Yeah, I was kidding. That's one of the strong points of Linux above all else - its not bothered by malware.



Mint has vulnerabilities.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Mint has vulnerabilities.


Are those vulnerabilities being exploited?

The effort for malware is towards Windows, and as time goes on, Apple.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Are those vulnerabilities being exploited?
> 
> The effort for malware is towards Windows, and as time goes on, Apple.


OSX will grow if Microsnot keeps it up. I'm sure every system has some vulnerability, some more than others obviously. But I haven't run across a problem in 6 years so far. 

One of the key differences is MS decided to keep things user friendly so people can simply install whatever with no fuss. Linux doesn't allow any installs unless you give administration permission with your password.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

RangoWA said:


> OSX will grow if Microsnot keeps it up. I'm sure every system has some vulnerability, some more than others obviously. But I haven't run across a problem in 6 years so far.
> 
> One of the key differences is MS decided to keep things user friendly so people can simply install whatever with no fuss. Linux doesn't allow any installs unless you give administration permission with your password.


Yeah, vulnerabilities are way down on my list of concerns. Having the OS decide it will do what it wants when it wants - leaving me unable to do the task at hand is way UP on my list.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Yeah, vulnerabilities are way down on my list of concerns. Having the OS decide it will do what it wants when it wants - leaving me unable to do the task at hand is way UP on my list.


I had the same issue with mine last year right in the middle of a big estimate I had to give out. Had updates turned off, but it still tried to update and could not complete update. I now had a very large paper weight.

I went to the other team and did not look back, so far so good


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

ALL OS's have vulnerabilities. The reason windows is attacked more is there are more windows machines. the MAC has the same issues, but hackers don't care much to go after them because of the lack of machines to attack compared to windows machines.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Leo G said:


> ALL OS's have vulnerabilities. The reason windows is attacked more is there are more windows machines. the MAC has the same issues, but hackers don't care much to go after them because of the lack of machines to attack compared to windows machines.


Yes they all do, my issue was when MS did the updates even though I chose not to update. Let me decide when to update, if I want to stay in 2010 let me.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

One of my big beefs was the vicious hardware/software upgrade cycle. More memory, bigger hard drives, faster cpus to keep up. y

I was a beta tester for Memphis, named Win98 when it was released. Even spent a day in a campus lab in Redmond with my computer and plotter. Everything worked up until the last couple of releases, then I had to replace two peripherals, a scanner and printer I believe.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I had a lot of expensive fun back in those days. I ran 5-2-2-1 timings a lot OCd.


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## GregB (Jan 8, 2016)

RangoWA said:


> What's the difference between consumer and actual computers? Video cards can be added if you need four monitors. Linux has has multiple workspaces for many years, with two monitors I had eight virtual monitors with open programs.


HP used to be pretty clear about the difference between Computers and Consumer Electronics. Two different divisions with different phone numbers and different tech support, warranties, etc. It is less clear now that HP has separated into HP and HPE. Silly the real computers are still part of HP instead of going with the servers into HPE. 
A consumer store like Best Buy, Office Depot, Office Max, etc. is NOT authorized to sell Computers, only Consumer Electronics. Apple wouldn't authorize Best Buy to sell their computers either. The last actual storefront that had both HP authorizations was CompUSA, who was also authorized to sell Apple. When CompUSA closed Apple put a small Apple Store with Apple Employees in many Best Buys. They eventually trained enough people that it seems Best Buy can sell Apple Computers. 
Consumer Electronics is designed to sell one at a time to home users. They need a high markup since it is a lot of work to sell ONE unit. The business units bought properly actually work out about the same price. 

Business units have a stable platform so that a business can buy quantities over a year or so and have the same units to support. Warranties are 3 years instead of one. Drivers and Firmware are released for years. Some of the HP Workstations running CNC equipment have been in service for 10 years and had firmware updates just a couple years ago. Consumer electronics is designed to toss after a year or so. 
Interesting that you can buy actual Computers online from places like BestBuy.com and it will be shipped from Ingram Micro directly to you. Somebody is assuming if you buy it online, you are responsible for making the correct choice.
Unix/Linux is great but I wouldn't want to deal with it on the desktop with its limitations. We ran our main database on Oracle on Linux for a long time but were finally forced to change to MS when the software vendor only would support Oracle on Windows Server. That Epicor system works perfectly today on SQL 2012 on Server 2012. 
We ran a number of small field offices on ClearOS server/firewalls (Linux) and it always worked great.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

GregB said:


> HP used to be pretty clear about the difference between Computers and Consumer Electronics. Two different divisions with different phone numbers and different tech support, warranties, etc. It is less clear now that HP has separated into HP and HPE. Silly the real computers are still part of HP instead of going with the servers into HPE.
> A consumer store like Best Buy, Office Depot, Office Max, etc. is NOT authorized to sell Computers, only Consumer Electronics. Apple wouldn't authorize Best Buy to sell their computers either. The last actual storefront that had both HP authorizations was CompUSA, who was also authorized to sell Apple. When CompUSA closed Apple put a small Apple Store with Apple Employees in many Best Buys. They eventually trained enough people that it seems Best Buy can sell Apple Computers.
> Consumer Electronics is designed to sell one at a time to home users. They need a high markup since it is a lot of work to sell ONE unit. The business units bought properly actually work out about the same price.
> 
> ...


I'm sure that was true in the 90s but all grades of computers are available to consumers, including businesses. They sell high end gaming machines in retail outlets, no way they are substandard for business applications. If a vendor doesn't sell software for anything but Windows it has nothing to do with the computers but everything to do with the software company. My design/plotter driven software only runs on XP, what does that mean? Nothing. It was all about market share. Has nothing to do with brands. I keep that machine around just for that.

It was all a closed system in '90 when I got into it but quickly went turn key since that's where the money was. Linux was always open source and a very small user base but that's got nothing to do with brands, computers or superiority. If one needs a specific OS for specific software it is what is is. 

In my opinion HP sucks software wise, installing printers is like installing an OS and tends to stomp on everything else. I had a HP color laser from before getting into Linux but it was always a pain to install, and BIG. No one else seems to need that. 

I'm just not buying the HP commercial computer hype. They're just computers and you can get low end or high end or build them like I have for the last 27 years.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

urThis is probably a little arcane, but here goes...

There used to be a definite distinction between workstations and PCs. Workstations were either HP or Sun, running their proprietary versions of Unix on proprietary processors.

Looking ahead, HP decided they could kill off their OS development, kill off their processor development, and kill off their US support, replacing it with an Indian call center reading canned scripts.


This was all a plan to follow the Dell model. Intel architecture, and MS OS, cheap support.

The cheap support was a real problem, because you have trained system administrators with software and hardware support contracts totalling in the hundreds of thousands a year to millions a year getting asked something stupid, like try to reboot it.

Equipment buys shifted over to Sun, their main rival in the workstation space. The Itanium slip and eventual underperformance accelerated the shift away from HP.

Regarding Oracle, they bought Sun, so you can run Oracle using Sun's version of Unix.

When I refer to workstation, the systems I'm talking about have 8-50x the ram you'd have on a home system. Heavy duty design, simulation, etc.


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## PaulFalls44 (Dec 11, 2017)

Even if you know a lot about Linux, most programs like Microsoft office have troubles using it. Stick with Win7 If you like it more, I personally enjoy win10. Just buy an extra hard drive and dual boot it. IT would only be like $40 for the drive and you already have the OEM


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

At 7:34 AM, Windows 10 is going to force another update on me.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Just in time to get no work done for the day after it crashes your computer at 8:06 am


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

PaulFalls44 said:


> Even if you know a lot about Linux, most programs like Microsoft office have troubles using it. Stick with Win7 If you like it more, I personally enjoy win10. Just buy an extra hard drive and dual boot it. IT would only be like $40 for the drive and you already have the OEM


You don't need to know a lot about Linux these days. If you can install Windows you can install Linux. If MS Office is a must then sure you need Windows. LibreOffice is full featured, maybe not as good, I don't know but if you can use one you can probably use the other.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

Windows 7 user here. No reason to upgrade. 

Facebook ? No freakin'thanks. It's the "New TV" with added soap operas and drama which keep people addicted to using it (while driving, walking, eating dinner, etc). And all the selfie addicts duck-lipping away. Damm..whats this world coming too ?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Leo G said:


> Just in time to get no work done for the day after it crashes your computer at 8:06 am


That's what happened the last time. It appears Windows is waiting to pounce on me - has not started the update. Waiting for me to reboot like I often have to because the web browser fracture memory.

Was the whole point of getting the faster processor, more ram, and an actual video chip - just so this wouldn't happen.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I just have to restart the browser when that happens. My version of Firefox has a huge memory leak. It crashes when it uses 56 GB.


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