# how do i price pointing brick???????



## USER8493893

I just got my first masonary job pointing brick. i got about 100 sq ft to do how the hell do i price something like that. i figure about 20 man hours am i way off ?? if you can help me it would great:notworthy


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## stacker

if this is your 1st job,i would price it by the hour.20 hours is probably a good ball park.is it all lower level work(8 foot or less)?will you have to build scaffold?all this needs to be taken into account.
i have a 2000 sq ft job to grind and repoint and i told the lady it would be by the hour and gave her an hourly price but didnt give her a time frame.


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## rbsremodeling

Take a tape and measure the LF of the brick joints and multiply by .60 Cents:thumbsup: Each joint individually


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## Tscarborough

How do you get a job without giving a price?


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## wtygart

I was having a conversation with a builder/home owner the other day on his house I am building and he was complaining that "the tile guy is 40 bucks an hour, the finish guy is 50 bucks an hour.....how much is a Mason worth?" he asked me


"As much as I can get" I replied:thumbup:


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## CJKarl

Tscarborough said:


> How do you get a job without giving a price?


Reputation :thumbsup:


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## USER8493893

Tscarborough said:


> How do you get a job without giving a price?


 cuz im good like that, or its an add on


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## plazaman

Tscarborough said:


> How do you get a job without giving a price?


happens to us all the time. Its the relationship you have with your customers. Many times we are called to start working, we ask for checks during work, and submit an invoice at the end for payment without client not even knowing the original amount before work.


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## Tscarborough

I don't know who is more insane, you or your client. Do you buy a car and wait for the first payment to see what the price is? Eat at a restaurant and just pay the bill when you are done? 

All I can see are issues and no advantages, unless you are doing simple service work.


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## USER8493893

Tscarborough said:


> I don't know who is more insane, you or your client. Do you buy a car and wait for the first payment to see what the price is? Eat at a restaurant and just pay the bill when you are done?
> 
> All I can see are issues and no advantages, unless you are doing simple service work.


wow, insane ?, you just dont see the picture here do you? The client is a repeat client who i was putting in a fire door for at the site of their new office building. I gave them a good price and they said they wanted me to repoint the brick wall, knowing i wont rip them off. that not how i roll and they know it. so the trust is there, i was just wondering how to price it fair. Trust and friendship with your clients is priceless you should try it.


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## Tscarborough

If you gave them a good price, why the question?


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## RAY MERCHANT

*Pointing price*

What ever you fell like your time is worth, 
one thing i noticed about people though, it seems like when someone needs there car fixed
and the mechanic gives them a price of 65 dollars and hour they don't blink a eye, but when your doing something like fixing there house to up there value and you give them a price of 85 dollars an hour they freek out, go figure.


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## stacker

i really hate it when a customer calls and says i need this done or that done,come and do it.never asking a price or anything.and even tho i dont rip them off i feel apprehensive when i bill them.did i charge to much,are they going to be pissed?i would much rather price a job then they tell me to do it.
i have only had one person get mad about a bill when i was told to do something and not asked before.and that was a 500 brick job,that was to be ready for me and it wasnt,it was located 25 miles from home.i ended up putting up the brick mold,putting on tar paper,and having to haul sand and cement to the job.so the one day job turned into two and i charged her 500.00,a dollar a brick.when she sent me payment she paid me 250.00 telling me she contacted another mason who told her my price was way out of line,yada yada yada.i sent her check back to her at her "summer home" telling her she must need the money worse than me and that unless she paid the full amount i didnt want anything.well she agreed with that and didnt pay me anything.
i seen the snotty little beach tonite at my class reunion.she never said crap to me and i didnt say crap right back.


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## fez-head

Shooter McGavin said:


> I just got my first masonry job pointing brick. i got about 100 sq ft to do how the hell do i price something like that. i figure about 20 man hours am i way off ?? if you can help me it would great:notworthy


We charge $5 a sq' for ground level work. Anything above 5' tall and of course chimneys go up quite a bit from there. Brick pavers are a PITA so we charge more for those as well. Settlement cracks are where the real money is at. This is all repair work by the way and never a full building.


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## USER8493893

Tscarborough said:


> If you gave them a good price, why the question?


just never mind there guy


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## raskolnikov

Tscarborough,
Step away from the van!

D.


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## Tscarborough

Sure thing, Shooter.


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## Udeb

*A good pointer*

I know the thread was posted in 2008 but for anyone wondering how to price a pointing job, a good proffesional pointer should be able to complete 100 sqft or close to it in 1 day so you either charge by the foot or by the day. Bids can be from $3 to $10 a square foot depending on grinding, replacing brick ect... Remember it might take 2 days to cut out 100sq but one day to point it good luck!!!


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## dom-mas

How can you get a job without giving a price?? It's a common thing called cost plus. Materials plus labour. I rarely give a price on restoration. Who knows what you're going to find once you start opening the can of worms. I can give an "estimate" focus on estimate, but not a price.


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## ohiohomedoctor

dom-mas said:


> How can you get a job without giving a price?? It's a common thing called cost plus. Materials plus labour. I rarely give a price on restoration. Who knows what you're going to find once you start opening the can of worms. I can give an "estimate" focus on estimate, but not a price.


I would say you not giving a solid price on restoration works means you probably dont get much restoration work. Everyone wants a price. The only people who get away with not providing an estimate are plumbers and electricians which means they win every time. 

:canofsmilewormsopened:


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## dom-mas

50% of my work is in restoration. Cost plus is a very valid form of pricing. Someone asks "how much to repair this section of my stone foundation" 80% of the foundation is below grade, how can you give a price? How much of that foundation needs rebuilding as opposed to just repointing? You could give a fixed price but it would be the worst case price. I explain that to people and they usually accept the cost plus rate. It's either that or you gouge with extras. When I worked for a large company they would never give prices either, they would only give "estimates".

If you've ever dealt with mass stone masonry you'll have an idea of what the can of worms is.


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## NJ Brickie

dom-mas said:


> How can you get a job without giving a price?? It's a common thing called cost plus. Materials plus labour. I rarely give a price on restoration. Who knows what you're going to find once you start opening the can of worms. I can give an "estimate" focus on estimate, but not a price.


It is called time and material or T&M work. Cost plus refers to a type of contract that a GC enters into with the owner. It means total cost of construction plus a percentage.


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## dom-mas

right sorry, I know masonry better than business.


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## mikeym

USER8493893 said:


> just never mind there guy


Lol the guy was actually asking valid questions. I had to take 1 minute of my time and make a profile to tell you that. Please dont be stupid and ignorant and reread his questions and what u found offensive about them lmao. Let me take a wild guess.. your business is probably doing REALLY bad...


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## stonecutter

mikeym said:


> Lol the guy was actually asking valid questions. I had to take 1 minute of my time and make a profile to tell you that. Please dont be stupid and ignorant and reread his questions and what u found offensive about them lmao. Let me take a wild guess.. your business is probably doing REALLY bad...


Interesting first post. You realize the OP started the thread over four years ago and never replied right?


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## JBM

Its ok dom, as long as you dont do" this job is costing me plus", youll be fine.


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## dom-mas

ha, I tried that style once. I didn't like it. Seriously though I do think that T&M is a very valid form of contracting. Not for most jobs but for the ones that have too many unknowns it's the only way I roll. In fact I had a T&M contract this year that basically said work at an hourly rate until the money is gone. There were so many random things to do that it would have been crazy to try and add them all up


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## raskolnikov

I'm happy to give a number on something that's spelled out. I never give a firm number on retro and discovery. I was burned too many times when starting out, now it's a guesstimate till we get to when the real work begins. Call me chicken, I've just seen too much half assed work that makes my help and I cringe.

D.


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## NYCCONTRACTOR

No price and contract prior to start? OMG you guys would have no work here in New York.


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## Tscarborough

They would have plenty of work, they just would not get paid for it.


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## hdavis

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I would say you not giving a solid price on restoration works means you probably dont get much restoration work. Everyone wants a price. The only people who get away with not providing an estimate are plumbers and electricians which means they win every time.
> 
> :canofsmilewormsopened:


That's what can happen when they want YOU to do it. Trusting you'll do it right and not rip them off


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## brhokel606

hdavis said:


> That's what can happen when they want YOU to do it. Trusting you'll do it right and not rip them off


Exactly right. I have quite a few regular customers that have told me what they wanted done and said to just bill them when done, no discussion at all about price. They trust me, know I am not going to rip them off and love my work. Makes you feel good with customers like this.


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## Tscarborough

.....


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## jb4211

Tscarborough said:


> I don't know who is more insane, you or your client. Do you buy a car and wait for the first payment to see what the price is? Eat at a restaurant and just pay the bill when you are done?
> 
> All I can see are issues and no advantages, unless you are doing simple service work.


This is obviously knowledge that was learned through experience. Why do done people refuse to consider great advice from someone more experienced. 

I think you made excellent points and gave great advice. There is more of a chance of things going poorly when you operate this way than things going well. I had to learn that lesson the hard way. But, to my defence, I never had anyone give me such good advice prior to.

Pricing should always be made definitive before any work is stated. Regardless of the about of money you want for the work, the client should know ahead of time. And, I believe in contracts: have the agreement in writing. Clear, precise ready to understand contracts saves relationships and friendships.


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## jb4211

USER8493893 said:


> just never mind there guy


I wonder how his business is doing now.
Probably well if he humbled himself and took your advice.


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## jb4211

brhokel606 said:


> Exactly right. I have quite a few regular customers that have told me what they wanted done and said to just bill them when done, no discussion at all about price. They trust me, know I am not going to rip them off and love my work. Makes you feel good with customers like this.


It does. I've been there.
But, please take the advice and hammer out the pricing details with every customer. It's not worth risking the relationship.

I've worked for very rich and the not so very rich. I've learned the hard way to make pricing clear prior to starting. I paid the price by losing two friends. (I didn't learn the lesson the first time.) 

Some people don't value the skill of a tradesmen. I do. Some people will think nothing of paying a doctor or lawyer hundreds of dollars per hour. How many when to school to enter that business for no other reason than to make lots of money. Good tradesmen have honed their craft their whole lives. It's in their blood. No one enters the trades to make a bundle of money. There are easier ways.

I hope I made some sense. Hard to make a point like this using my phone


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## dom-mas

I'll stand by T&M for restoration work every time. I do dozens of them each year and in over 10 years have only had one sour grape. Since then I have seen them out and about and they understand well why doing T&M was the only option at the time. They felt ripped off at the time but after getting similar work done @ fixed price and getting raped by the extras that weren't mentioned as a possibility they saw that my price ultimately was very fair and understand why it was the best option

Oh and no one said anything about no contract, just not a fixed price contract.


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## Tscarborough

T & M is not the issue, there is a price there, it is just not a discrete sum. Do the work and we will talk about price later is a different animal altogether.


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## brhokel606

jb4211 said:


> It does. I've been there.
> But, please take the advice and hammer out the pricing details with every customer. It's not worth risking the relationship.
> 
> I've worked for very rich and the not so very rich. I've learned the hard way to make pricing clear prior to starting. I paid the price by losing two friends. (I didn't learn the lesson the first time.)
> 
> Some people don't value the skill of a tradesmen. I do. Some people will think nothing of paying a doctor or lawyer hundreds of dollars per hour. How many when to school to enter that business for no other reason than to make lots of money. Good tradesmen have honed their craft their whole lives. It's in their blood. No one enters the trades to make a bundle of money. There are easier ways.
> 
> I hope I made some sense. Hard to make a point like this using my phone


I agree and understand to a point. You also have to know the customer, it does not work for everyone and I have had quite a few say just bill me but i still do a bid, you know with that repeat customer that there might be a problem so you make sure they understand. But there are a few that know exactly what a great tradesman costs and have absolutely no problem paying what they ask because they have zero worries about their credibility and skill. They trust you 100% and if there was ever a discrepancy, which I have not had, it would be worked out.

I know it might not make the best business sense but sometimes I trust my gut on it. If I had to eat the labor for instance or even some material because there was a problem, then it was my fault for not bidding and I would not argue about it. 

It would be yet another business lesson learned, LOL.


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## dom-mas

Tscarborough said:


> T & M is not the issue, there is a price there, it is just not a discrete sum. Do the work and we will talk about price later is a different animal altogether.


Do the work and we'll discuss price later has worked for me as well. small jobs only, usually just a day or 2, and only for good previous customers. I use it when the job is either far enough away that to look at it and estimate it would raise the price significantly or when it's a real rush job, for whatever reason


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