# What the worst electrical safety issue you have seen?



## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

pulpfiction32 said:


> anyone used those new in wall splices i saw them in the supply house the other day how can they be legal


Are you referring to a flying splice ?


----------



## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

skyhook said:


> Are you referring to a flying splice ?


Not exactly...









http://www.smarthome.com/7104.html

Something like that item.


----------



## w6ire (Jun 15, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> Thanks for that tidbit. Surely you know that electricians are prima donnas? Consequently, if you want to puch me or something "unexpected" like that, PM me and I'll give you my home address. :laughing: I'm a real man too. I'm not as much wound up as I simply don't tolerate incorrect information very kindly, particilarly from someone who operates in California.
> 
> The switch location in the photo is NOT a wet area, or many other building code matters related to wet areas would have come into play.


I don't know what "puch" means, but here in California no electrical inspector would approve that installation. Go to iccsafe.org and post the pic there and see what real electrical inspectors would do.

I do know that electricians are prima donnas, and as a prima donna I can't tolerate you having an opinion contrary to mine.


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

Wire6.....Relax guy.
Don't take being incorrect as a personal attack. MD is probably one of the most knowledgeable electricians you will ever have the privlidge of communicating with. And deep down he does like guys from CA!!!LOL

As for your topic, it will pass. I have seen worse pass. If it didn't pass, a code site would be requested and the inspector would be wrong. That switch is clearly out of the "wet" area. It's a crap install, but a legal one. 

Myself and many others have challanged MD on a number of issues related to electrical (and other trades) and he is almost always correct. Yeah, it gets annoying after a while but his info is sound.
If you really want to make this site work for you, ask him in detail to explain why it's legal, and how it would have needed to be to not be legal.
Just my .02


----------



## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

w6ire said:


> I don't know what "puch" means, but here in California no electrical inspector would approve that installation. Go to iccsafe.org and post the pic there and see what real electrical inspectors would do.
> 
> I do know that electricians are prima donnas, and as a prima donna I can't tolerate you having an opinion contrary to mine.


:yawn:

MD is somebody you want on your side unless your an idiot!













maybe you are!


----------



## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

w6ire said:


> ... here in California no electrical inspector would approve that installation. Go to iccsafe.org and post the pic there and see what real electrical inspectors would do.


Unless these inspectors you speak of are using some other set of rules not contained within the NEC, the install is 100% legitimate and passes NEC code with flying colors.


----------



## bobelectric (May 6, 2007)

skyhook said:


> My neighbor is a nuclear electrician. On his home, he had a breaker weld itself to the bus bar. He was standing in a puddle of water trying to remove it from the live 100 amp panel with a pair of pliers......


 Is a nuclear electrician superior to any other elecrtician?


----------



## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

"Is a nuclear electrician superior to any other elecrtician?"

Probably not, but he would apparently be less conductive.


----------



## JCardoza (Jun 21, 2007)

I was doing the drywall on a job once and the power CO came out and switched the house over from the temp to the main panel... Without any breakers in the panel (except for the main) without any cover etc... (But that's all normal for our area for some dumb reason.) Any way I carry a spare breaker for reasons such as this and so I went to snap it into the panel and bumped the main ground wire before I turned off the main breaker. Well apparently the main ground wire had never been connected and was just hanging loose in the panel because it swung over and hit the hot terminals. Good thing I was wearing a full spray suit mask and gloves, because I got showered in molten metal! Melted all into my hat and suit... I'm sure they had to replace something. Several of the terminals were toast. Maybe the electrician will be more carefull next time... Maybe.
:blink:


----------



## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

JCardoza said:


> Any way I carry a spare breaker for reasons such as this
> 
> 
> Maybe the electrician will be more carefull next time... Maybe.
> :blink:


LMAO..sure...blame the electrician.

You're lucky you're not dead.

See quote below VVV


----------



## SmithBuilt (Jan 25, 2007)

Someone had install gas installed at a house I worked on today. The electrician had to install a new outlet for the logs. He had run it outside the house along the wall about 50' of uf wire. Maybe secured it in 5 places, and 4 of those were zip ties to a gas line for the logs. Obviously no permit.

I ask the homeowner about it she, had us redo all of it.


----------



## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

bobelectric said:


> Is a nuclear electrician superior to any other elecrtician?


I'd like to think they are, but from skyhook's post it would appear they might be a little dumber.


----------



## househelper (Mar 20, 2007)

reveivl said:


> "Is a nuclear electrician superior to any other elecrtician?"


Yes. They glow in the dark.


----------



## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Celtic said:


> LMAO..sure...blame the electrician.
> 
> You're lucky you're not dead.
> 
> See quote below VVV



Why am I not suprised that this guys a sheetrocker?

By the way, whats up with the power company juicing up a panel without a final service inspection (or did the inspector not see that the neutral conductor wasn't tied in)? Whenever I do a service in new construction I almost always leave one circuit breaker controlling one GFCI receptacle beneath the panel so the sheetrockers don't have happen what happened to this guy.


----------



## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Today I saw a white "positive" tied into a breaker, and the black "negative" tied into the neutral buss.


----------



## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

A.W.Davis said:


> :yawn:
> 
> MD is somebody you want on your side unless your an idiot!
> 
> ...


yeah! if we're gonna rumble, he's got your back...:laughing: wtf is this? high school?

No offense to MD, he's a smart guy who either knows alot, or is good with google, but if wasn't here....then what?

FTR...I like marc's answers...i especially like when he misses his meds and gets mean...then it's funny. :rockon:


----------



## skeeter (May 18, 2007)

To many scary instances to list them all, but heres 3 1) Grandma gets shocked in the nursery visiting here new grandchild because the supposed licensed electrician didn't think to bond to building steel on a 480 to 208VAC transformer. :blink:

2) I found all sub panels in a new building bonded to neutral.

3) Same job I opened a gutter with neutrals all tied together for 2 to 3 circuits for each phase.


----------



## skeeter (May 18, 2007)

JCardoza said:


> I was doing the drywall on a job once and the power CO came out and switched the house over from the temp to the main panel... Without any breakers in the panel (except for the main) without any cover etc... (But that's all normal for our area for some dumb reason.) Any way I carry a spare breaker for reasons such as this and so I went to snap it into the panel and bumped the main ground wire before I turned off the main breaker. Well apparently the main ground wire had never been connected and was just hanging loose in the panel because it swung over and hit the hot terminals. Good thing I was wearing a full spray suit mask and gloves, because I got showered in molten metal! Melted all into my hat and suit... I'm sure they had to replace something. Several of the terminals were toast. Maybe the electrician will be more carefull next time... Maybe.
> :blink:


:wallbash:
you prove the point that drywallers have no business in an electrical panel. And shame on the electrician who left a panel wide open to get turned on like that.


----------



## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

well I don't know if this is scary or not- but  we are currently buying a house, 19 yrs old. We hired a house inspector- he found a 60 amp breaker on the "main" and a 100 amp breaker on the "sub" this seems backwards to me somehow- we are hiring an electrician to fix this- 
also what do you guys think of "trane" (spelling might be wrong) we have to replace the furnace (gas) and we were thinking of a heat pump type of thing, one of our friends recommended a "trane" brand.

thanks 

Mac.


----------



## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

JCardoza said:


> I was doing the drywall on a job once and the power CO came out and switched the house over from the temp to the main panel... Without any breakers in the panel (except for the main) without any cover etc... (But that's all normal for our area for some dumb reason.) Any way I carry a spare breaker for reasons such as this and so I went to snap it into the panel and bumped the main ground wire before I turned off the main breaker. Well apparently the main ground wire had never been connected and was just hanging loose in the panel because it swung over and hit the hot terminals. Good thing I was wearing a full spray suit mask and gloves, because I got showered in molten metal! Melted all into my hat and suit... I'm sure they had to replace something. Several of the terminals were toast. Maybe the electrician will be more carefull next time... Maybe.
> :blink:


POCO here will not install the meter without a panel cover. A temp outlet is also required for service inspection. (residential)


----------



## JCardoza (Jun 21, 2007)

skeeter said:


> :wallbash:
> you prove the point that drywallers have no business in an electrical panel. And shame on the electrician who left a panel wide open to get turned on like that.


At this point I won't mention that I worked as an electrician's assistant for a while... :whistling 

What? No it's not like that! I quit! Really! They offered me more money to stay and I quit anyway! LOL 

Hey I've had to play with a lot of electrical panels in my drywall career if the electricians would always leave a couple 120v outlets (and an occasional 240 would be good) we drywallers would be more than happy to stay out of your panels! :thumbsup:


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

Recently I went to pull out an aircooled condenser that had a 208v 200amp three phase disconnect fed in conduit from the main lugs of a distribution panel, upon further inspection, I found a pull box that they bugged a 120v fed from one leg for an outlet on the roof. The neutral was just lugged to the pull box.


----------



## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

JCardoza said:


> Hey I've had to play with a lot of electrical panels in my drywall career if the electricians would always leave a couple 120v outlets (and an occasional 240 would be good) we drywallers would be more than happy to stay out of your panels! :thumbsup:


If someone offered us some money to supply the devices, we would 

If you want to roll the dice, who am I to stop you?


----------



## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Recently I went to pull out an aircooled condenser that had a 208v 200amp three phase disconnect fed in conduit from the main lugs of a distribution panel, upon further inspection, I found a pull box that they bugged a 120v fed from one leg for an outlet on the roof. The neutral was just lugged to the pull box.



*RED TAG!*

Violation of article 250.6


----------



## jrclen (Jul 10, 2007)

Just recently I got a call to bid a remodel on a tavern. Over 1/2 of the building had been completely removed to the floor level. I walked into the basement with the new owner and found the floor covered with water from a recent rain. Loose runs of romex were laying in heaps all over the floor. The owner tells me to be careful because the wires are all "hot." It seems what the demo guys did was disconnect the home runs after shorting them out to trip the breakers. Then they shoved the wires back down into the basement and let them fall. Then they reset all the breakers, not knowing which one did what, so the power would be on in the part of the building still standing. So the energized wires are laying in puddles of water in the basement. Nothing is marked in the 200 amp panel and the wiring looks like spaggetti. All the romex is stapled to the bottom edge of the floor joists. The code violations start at the panel and radiate from there. We just started having inspections and permits here a year ago so we find lots of hack work like this. Stepping over the live wires in the water was kind of exciting.


----------



## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> Stepping over the live wires in the water was kind of exciting


First, why would anyone do that? Then, how can you step in a puddle with live wires in it and not get zapped?


----------



## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

Not the worst, perhaps, but just gutted a bathroom in a house today, found 1 buried junction box, 1 buried switch(!), and 1 buried receptacle, all live, all k&t. Arrgggh!

Then found the hack who had done the previous work had run new vents in for the plumbing, drilled a 2" hole in the side of the 4" iron main vent, stuck in a piece of 1-1/2" abs, and, get this, duct taped it on! Arrgggh! Arrgggh!


----------



## jrclen (Jul 10, 2007)

boman47k said:


> First, why would anyone do that? Then, how can you step in a puddle with live wires in it and not get zapped?


Why would anyone do what? The shoddy demo work, or enter the wet basement? Be careful where you step and have good work boots. The crew who did the demolition work were a fine bunch of derelicts. To many drugs and to much yukon jack will do that. But I bet they worked cheap.


----------



## frenchelectrica (Sep 26, 2003)

yeah i did see few place as well some are so shroddy and i did work on one commercal building the building owner did all the wiring himself i say  and i asked him did you pull the permits and have this place inspected ? he say no i try to save extra bucks 

i say no way i get permits first and charge him extra to remove tons of junks above the ceiling grid d#$% i cant belive the mess it took me 3 days to just sort out and remove unneed mess plus removed hidden breaker box what the owner wont tell me and i found it :w00t:

Merci , Marc


----------



## HallisseyDesign (Jul 6, 2007)

I got the best. I found a secret panel on a flip house. The previous own decided to steal power. I am assuming a he did it so he tapped the inbound lines to the meter with 6 GAUGE wire not 3. He ran 2 lines to a box with the old glass fuses. I can't think of the name for them- The ones were you need to put the fuse link back in them. Well lets put it this way I will bring you fine people pictures tm:furious:! Tomorrow is going to be a long day of soldering and replacing a 200 amp box in a house. It will have 2 200 amp boxes!:thumbup:


----------



## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

> Tomorrow is going to be a long day of soldering


   Did I miss something???


----------



## HallisseyDesign (Jul 6, 2007)

firemike said:


> Did I miss something???


Haha read my post. You can solder 2 lines together in a box and heat shrink them together and it will pass code in IL, I am pretty sure it will pass in other states Cali for one. The old owner decided to make connections in the 200 amp box with wire nuts. He didn't even tape them. So today I got to turn off the box and start fixing the wiring rats nest. I got half way through it today, I managed to solder 40 lines together and have another 15 to go tomorrow:clap:. It has been fun, I need dinner!


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

firemike said:


> Did I miss something???


It's still legal to solder your connections, as long as they're twisted together first. Then, you have to insulate them at least with a thickness at least equal to the wire's insulation. It can be a superior connection, when properly done. It's just time consuming, is all. A single layer of heat shrink normally won't fly, unless you're using super-thick heat shrink. It takes at least 3 layers to get the same buildup and dielectric strength as the conductor insulation.


----------



## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

I realize that it is still legal in many places, I just didn't know anyone did it anymore because of all the reasons you and MD said. A real PITA. I see what you are doing now, when I read your original post, I took it as you were removing the old "secret" panel, substituting a junction box, and feeding that from the new 200A panel to pick up the circuits. I was just thinking that why solder the joints in a junction box when wirenuts would surfice... I get it now! (It's been hot, guess the brain is a little slow...)


----------



## HallisseyDesign (Jul 6, 2007)

firemike said:


> I realize that it is still legal in many places, I just didn't know anyone did it anymore because of all the reasons you and MD said. A real PITA. I see what you are doing now, when I read your original post, I took it as you were removing the old "secret" panel, substituting a junction box, and feeding that from the new 200A panel to pick up the circuits. I was just thinking that why solder the joints in a junction box when wirenuts would surfice... I get it now! (It's been hot, guess the brain is a little slow...)



Haha no problem. The secret box is going to be gone tomorrow, if the new owner wants it then well he can get another guy in there that will not know about it! My hands are not going to be on it! Yea I also need to replace the 100 amp panel because the old owner back fed the box, from the secret panel he had a 50 amp dual pull wired to another 50 amp dual pull on the 100 amp box. The 100 amp box was already powered by the 200 amp box. He decide to turn the on and started a fire in the 100 amp box by back feeding it! :furious: Stupid people!


----------



## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

No wonder he started a fire, sounds like he back-fed himself so many times he probably ended up with a 480/277 system by the time the electricity got to an outlet. :laughing: Just kidding, but I know what you mean. It is scary to think what else he might have done there, and what he has done to other peoples houses...


----------



## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> That's always been legal, and is still legal today. For instance, the picture below shows a legal install:


There is lots of leeway for intrpretation by individual inspectors about switch locations in bathrooms, as many small bathrooms are just not physically able to get distance between devices and shower or tub, but I have not seen blatantly dangerous stuff like this get by. The inspector would never get to pass judgement on something like this anyway, because my electrician would not locate such, and if he did, I would have him relocate it long before an inspection was called.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

troubleseeker said:


> There is lots of leeway for intrpretation by individual inspectors about switch locations in bathrooms.


No, realisticly, there is not. The code is clear. Any other enforcement activity, lacking local amendments, is abuse of power and subject to legal action.


----------



## HallisseyDesign (Jul 6, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> No, realisticly, there is not. The code is clear. Any other enforcement activity, lacking local amendments, is abuse of power and subject to legal action.


What I have figured out with inspectors is most of them have no clue. It is a old dog and they can't learn new ways of doing things or that one way somebody frames will actually be stronger. Stupid stuff like that- well look at the home inspector I got- he missed the free power and free cable that the house is weird on. The inspector had to of been drunk when he went to this house!:clap:If any of you are inspectors I love you:notworthy:no:


----------



## lbwireman (Dec 26, 2006)

Marc
Would that the "code were clear". Unfortunately, as with the law, there are "grey areas, subject to interpretation". I have immense respect for your knowledge of the code and your personal ethics (I've admired your posts for quite some time, now). However, I have to say on this one, I wonder which is more important, the letter of the law (code) or the spirit. Technically, you are absolutely correct but from a common sense POV, does this installation seem wise to you? Bearing in mind that the NEC is the minimum of what's acceptable, not the highest standard? All due respect, even if I am a CA electrician (Lic., Certified).


----------



## fullerbuilt (Dec 14, 2009)

Anyone use those wagos. What do you think of them seems a bit like backstabbing to me!
But they do seem handy to just plug a new load out of a junction without removing tape or wirenut or anything.


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

daisy542 said:


> Did you know that the rubber stamp artist Angela Cartwright is the same person who played Brigitta in "Sound of Music?" That is one of my all-time favorite movies.


Daisy, Welcome to CT (I think)

Based on the limited info on your profile and the fact that this is your first post here, I have a feeling you are in the wrong forum.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

daisy542 said:


> Did you know that the rubber stamp artist Angela Cartwright is the same person who played Brigitta in "Sound of Music?" That is one of my all-time favorite movies.








 




rselectric1 said:


> Daisy, Welcome to CT (I think)
> 
> Based on the limited info on your profile and the fact that this is your first post here, I have a feeling you are in the wrong forum.


I'll bet a nickel he/she is here to advertise koozies.


----------



## newenergy (Mar 5, 2008)

One time I was laying down head first across a steep (35 deg or so) array of solar panels on a second story roof making an adjustment while someone held me by my ankles. Or are we just talking about dumb things that other people did?


----------

