# terminating contract



## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

....


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## rotarex (Mar 31, 2008)

unless the workmanship is absolute garbage then they can sue, if there is very minor issues that can be touch up then i wont worry about it, i know when clients want to bargain in the end, they usually find all sorts of nonsense to complain about, and this usually happens in renovations and not new installation as new is all plumb and square, older renos every thing is not.

so my advice is learn from this, rember the mistakes and make a new contract
the downfall is, if your only a GC and don't do any of the work your self then you don't know what to add to the contract


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

You just learned a valuable lesson.

Scope work: 

1. Repair 145 SQ FT of ceiling in living room.
_Please note: repair area may not match existing ceiling, an optional cost of $ 3mil. To replace entire ceiling_

2. Install 1 mil. FT of 5 5/8” molding crown molding

_Please note: Relocation of return vents not included: Crown molding must be notched around the return air vent _

Remember; always look for potential problems and state options in your scope of work to cover your arse


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

keoni1978 said:


> ...So, I signed a contract for a little over $10k and the job consists or water damage repair work. The problem started when my drywall guy did a piss poor job of preparing the ceiling. They didn’t spend enough time sanding it down so there are lines showing after the spray the texture. I do take full responsibility for it and did send my guys back out to try to repair it but it still doesn’t look right.
> 
> You should have caught this before the drywall crew was done.
> Very important to have daily supervision. It is admirable that you are taking responsibility for it. Now follow thru & fix it.
> ...


 
I do not believe you can just cancel a contract because things aren't going your way. Perhaps a sit down with thw owners & discuss how you can reasonably finish the job to their expectations. If you come to an agreement PUT IT IN WRITING & everybody sign.

As far as your attorney goes, get a new one. Someone who understands/knows construction & contract law.


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## DPCII (Mar 14, 2010)

griz said:


> *I do not believe you can just cancel a contract because things aren't going your way.* Perhaps a sit down with thw owners & discuss how you can reasonably finish the job to their expectations. If you come to an agreement PUT IT IN WRITING & everybody sign.
> 
> As far as your attorney goes, get a new one. Someone who understands/knows construction & contract law.


If you have a termination for convenience clause you can. Why contractors and customers alike to not insist on one is beyond my comprehension.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Already lots of good advice here. Bottom line is you lost control of the site and the HO. As the general that's your job.

So, live and learn, hope it turns out ok for you. My approach is always that my clients best interests come first. That means you need to be on top of everything, all the time.

That's what they hire us for.


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## dprimc (Mar 13, 2009)

I think the biggest lesson here is that once one thing goes wrong, you can bet the customer is going to be looking for others.

I'd sure look a lot closer at everything after seeing a broken chair and a ceiling with lines.

Getting the chair and the ceiling fixed is great, but what is going to stay with the client is the fact that the ceiling had lines even after trying to fix it, and the chair was broken to begin with. 

Granted, stuff happens. Sometimes you can do everything right and something still goes wrong. You do your best to fix it, but you have to know that clients impression may be damaged, and that, unlike a chair, cannot just be repaired or replaced for a few hundred bucks. 

I guess I don't understand how you can walk away 'canceling the contract' if the ceiling still isn't fixed???? Did your contract state that you will try twice and if it isn't right then you're done and get payment or that you will substitute some free casing work for a low quality ceiling repair?

Fix the issues or get someone in who can. Walking away is a cop out and will ruin any chance of repairing the contractor/client relationship you already severely damaged.


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

The work is not absolute garbage. Ive tried to work things out with the HO but the husband is being extremely difficult. They wont give me a chance to fix the imperfections, instead they want it done all over again even the perfect part of the ceiling. I do not wish to just walk away but the husband wants to argue about everything.

I believe in going the extra mile to please the client but they are pushing too hard. 
Most of the time I do get my hands dirty but I got stretched out too thin with 3 job sites. Ive definitely learned from this and ultimately I am responsible for it thats why I feel obligated to give them their money back


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

The husband being extremely difficult - this is a tactic to get money.


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

couple of pictures. You can see the 2 lines on the ceiling and the crown cover a bit of the vent boarder


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Some reason the crown is not finished? 

I would never run crown over the return. Lower the return.

Ceiling is unacceptable. Scrape it all down, re-mud as required, prime and re-spray the whole area.

Sorry, unacceptable workmanship.


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

Some reason the crown is not finished? 

waiting for the flex

I would never run crown over the return. Lower the return.

what return? thats the vent not a return

Ceiling is unacceptable. Scrape it all down, re-mud as required, prime and re-spray the whole area.

I know the ceiling is not up to par and I dont mind fixing it but they want me to scrape the entire ceiling even the perfect part which counts for 2/3 of it

Sorry, unacceptable workmanship.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

I would be complaing too. Surely you don't believe that is acceptable.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

keoni1978 said:


> what return? thats the vent not a return


You know darn well what he meant.

If you don't want to be critiqued, don't ask for advice and post pictures on the internet.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

vent/return, whatever. Lower it.

Your attitude may be part of the problem.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

And yes, scrape the whole thing, you can't match popcorn ceilings.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

You should have known the crown would hit the vent grill and whatever solution you came up with in agreement with the HO goes into the SOW.

I know it seams like a really anal thing to do ... "Where the thickness of the crown interferes with the location of the vent grill on the South wall of the kitchen, the crown shall be coped..."

But you know how long it took me to type that? 10 seconds.

Any debate? :no:

As for the ceiling, even from the picture it looks off. It looks like there was a thickness variation between the old and the new drywall...maybe lath/plaster and drywall? I dunno...but it doesn't look smooth and honestly my first instinct would be a re-do as well...that looks like a lot of "feathering".

Also remember in contracting, it's not always about "who's right". Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and go a "little" out of your way to please a client. That doesn't mean "bend over"...it means sometimes, use your discretion and even if the HO is wrong but it's a small concession...make it. 

And if you're in the wrong...fix it. Deosn't matter how much you lose.

Oh...and....don't spread yourself too thin. Ever. 

You're a better contractor tomorrow for making these mistakes today :thumbsup:


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm not arguing or denying anything. I dont mind being critiqued thats why I'm asking


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

TxElectrician said:


> I would be complaing too. Surely you don't believe that is acceptable.


not at all


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## DPCII (Mar 14, 2010)

i know this is a contractor site and all, but based onthe responses, I am going to say that the issue is not with the HO on this one.


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

I somehow missed the popcorn ceiling. 
I would have never agreed to nor should anybody agree on repairing pop corn ceilings.
The rule of thumb around here is replace all or nothing
I’m wondering if the HO knew that and you didn’t?
Could HO be playing you a fool by asking for a repair knowing it couldn’t be done?


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

its knock down not popcorn and no, the home owner didnt try to trick me. my guys f'ed up simple as that.


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

Open the ceiling up, shove your subs in there then sealer up!


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

DPCII said:


> i know this is a contractor site and all, but based onthe responses, I am going to say that the issue is not with the HO on this one.


I'm a little confused, am I coming off as if I'm not taking any responsibility? I offered to fixed the crappy area but they want the whole ceiling redone again. I'm simply asking for opinion and advice not to blame anyone


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

festerized said:


> Open the ceiling up, shove your subs in there then sealer up!


wish I could


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## dprimc (Mar 13, 2009)

"I believe in going the extra mile to please the client but they are pushing too hard."

According to who? He has a broken and repaired or replaced chair and a crappy looking ceiling and a partially covered vent.

Not much you can do about the chair other than fix or replace. If the crown / vent specs weren't included in the contract or a change order, move the vent and consider it a lesson learned.

As far as the lid goes, you already tried to repair it. I'd ask for the whole thing to be done too!!! How many cracks at it are they supposed to give you????


IMHO you lost a lot of your bargaining power when the chair was damaged and most if not all of the rest of it when the lid wasn't fixed on the second try.


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

dprimc said:


> "I believe in going the extra mile to please the client but they are pushing too hard."
> 
> According to who? He has a broken and repaired or replaced chair and a crappy looking ceiling and a partially covered vent.
> 
> ...


the lid wasnt the problem after the install and I even check with the husband during and he ok'ed it. They started complaining about it after the ceiling deal. 

I have not tried to do anything with the lid yet.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

keoni - tough crowd tonight :laughing: 

I'm sure you are learning your lessons after this one. Set your standards high, never let the HO say "it's ok" You make that call. If you strive to do flawless work then the HO will have no compaints.

I tell clients I do top drawer work, nothing else. And yes, it's expensive.

By doing that I'm actually making my life easier, no room for compaints.


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## dprimc (Mar 13, 2009)

keoni1978 said:


> the lid wasnt the problem after the install and I even check with the husband during and he ok'ed it. They started complaining about it after the ceiling deal.
> 
> I have not tried to do anything with the lid yet.


Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just really confused????

In your original post you said, "I do take full responsibility for it and did send my guys back out to try to repair it but it still doesn’t look right."

Am I missing something??? Sounds to me like done bad. Fixed bad. And now the problems with the HO.

If they are wanting you to fix the whole lid without giving you a chance to repair the bad area, that's a bit different, although I think it would be worth it to just do it all and try and be done with this before it spirals any further out of control.


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## keoni1978 (Mar 24, 2009)

Oh man all the different names got me confused as well:laughing: yes, crappy start, crappy repair. They didn't spend enough time sanding/preping. She won't give me a chance to fix the bad area first but want me to do the entire lid again. I'm not opposed to it but its the domino effect that pulling everything else into it. I.e. crown, jambs. They basically want me to rip down the crown and redo the whole thing.


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## FremontREO (Sep 30, 2009)

Not excusing the imperfections and mistakes but: was this thing completely dried down to acceptable limits before rebuild commenced? Seen it many times like this when water damage claims was not sufficiently dried by a drying company. Did you take moisture readings before startng work?


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Re: ceiling repair. If you're talking about the ceiling you posted the pic of, yes, you need to re-do that whole area.

Go into the site with a professional manner. Evaluate what honestly needs to be re-done. Stand your ground on items that meet "your high level of workmanship". 

Tell the HO what you will and what you will not re-do. Be polite, but firm in your position.

That's what I'd do. Last chance, good luck.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Keoni - if it's any consolation, the clients I do work for, if I did anything like that I would be gone. No cheque, no second chances.

I don't think you'll get another chance to fix it after this one.


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## jimmys (May 1, 2009)

If you went in now, fresh, to bid the work remaining, what would you propose to do? Lower the vent, remove/replace the crown, new layer of drywall over existing, tape and finish, paint, clean up. That's where you're at now - I'm afraid that's what you'll have to do, for free. 
Sucks too it's in their kitchen where they get to stare at it every day. I'd offer the full repair, in writing, where they sign a contract that says that's what you'll do and they'll finish paying you. You could negotiate for the [previously] undamaged portion, but I advise suck up the whole lid yourself and call it a lesson.
Sad but true.
Jim


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Once the 'seed of doubt' has been planted it's hard to recover....


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

You definitely need new drywall guys. That just plain sucks. I am not a great drywaller either, but I would never expect that to pass as nice or even "acceptable". Being busy is no excuse for that. If you are so busy that things get out of control like that, you need to take on fewer jobs.


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Fix it.....sounds like a good experience learning job! 

Next time:

1- Manage customers expectations verbaly and in contract. Such as "you know i can get a 80-90% match if I just repair this spot. Is that ok? If not I can scrape and repair it all and it will look brand new for $x) Then put in contract.

2-Manage your subs/employees better. Don't pay the subs unless the work is acceptable. Check on progress often. Don't let them texture unless you ok their sand job.

3-Quality workmanship is a must. You obvoiusly know this was all poor workmanship so why did you pass it off to the HO as done??

4- Picky customers suck! Learn to deal with them or screen beforehand.

My advise is to pull off the crown, scrape,fix,and retexture the ceiling, repaint, figure out a solution for the crown/vent, and pay for the chair. 

Unfortunatly, you will lose money and time on this job and probably never receive another job or recomendation from this. But probably cheaper than a lawsuit!

Good luck!


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*I'm sure there will ..*

be more comments coming...........









B,


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Keoni - you do know you have to pay for all this advice you're getting, right?:w00t:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

$35/word is the going rate. Lest see. 1, 2, 3, 4, ......... :w00t: yer screwed :laughing:


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