# Pre formed shower systems.. By laticrete



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I wouldn't mind more info on these products.


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Rob-- ask and you shall receive.   

http://www.laticrete.com/contractors/products/new_products.aspx


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Bill I'm guessing the benches are good to go for a steam shower?

IS there any issues with the Laticrete benches in a steam shower setting?

JW


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

John, shouldn't the Hydroban take care and address that issue of excessive moisture plus a epoxy grout like spectralock will address mold issues


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

John, why WOULD there be? Hell, most of the steam showers I've done, the benches were woodframed. Whatever the base of the bench, it's isolated from moisture, anyway.


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

Next laticrete needs fabric water proofer (like kerdi, noble, dal seal, ect.) There liquid water proofing products aren't allowed in a steam shower are they. I asked a laticrete rep about this and he said you could use hydroban in a steam shower, but you needes to put visqueen behind it which is some kind of plastic I guess. Wouldn't that create issues though if vapor got through the hydroban and trapped between it and plactic?


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

No, because there's a vapor barrier on only one side (it can also be 6 mil poly) I've already mentioined this several times to Henry, though. not a fabric. That's been done already. They need a rollable or trowelable membrane that's got a low enough perm rating that it would qualify as a vapor barrier (like Hydroment's Ultraset)


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Bill,
Is Laticrete still going to warranty a job if you use a different companies drain? Right now I have a quote out for a custom L shower with a custom fabricated QuickDrain USA linear.. it will be made to a size that noone offers.
Also, do you know if their shower curbs are going to be a longer run? so that a 5' shower will not have a seamed curb??


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Todd, that's something you want to ask Henry.
[email protected]


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Bill_Vincent said:


> John, why WOULD there be? Hell, most of the steam showers I've done, the benches were woodframed. Whatever the base of the bench, it's isolated from moisture, anyway.


Bill I'm just thinking out loud. With a Hydro Ban Steam Shower you need poly behind the backer board then cement board and then Hydro Ban.

I was wondering at what stage the bench goes in and how you waterproof it.

If it is a closed cell foam I'm thinking it is both water and vapour tight.


My last bench I built out of plywood and Green EBoard with some plywood as well. I'll be wrapping the bench topically with Noble Seal TS so no issues there.

I would like to see a sheet membrane from Laticrete as well. That would be a winning ticket to finally have one company making both a roll on and sheet membrane. Hmm I think Wedi does this all ready but they don't make setting materials...

:no:

Todd your Proline instal says to waterproof the shower with a topical waterproofing material. It does not say which one. :thumbup:

Josef is a very clever man....


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

I disagree. About 8 months before Hydroban came out, Henry invited several local contractors for dinner and then a brainstorming session to see what it was that they all wanted in a waterproofing membrane. At that time, I'd been using Kerdi for a couple of years for steam showers, but before that, I'd used the old formula of Hydroment's Ultraset. I liked the idea of a seamless installation.... just not the fumes it produced! My sister was one of the contractors invited to that dinner. That afternoon, she called me and asked me if I had any suggestions. I told her to tell Henry to give me a trowelable or roll-on waterproofing with a low enough perm rating so as to be good for steam showers. And then Hydroban came out. The very first seminar that Laticrete had up here, that was the first question out of my mouth, and of course, you all know the answer. I haven't stopped bugging Henry since, right up to an email I sent him the other day, and I'll be mentioning it again when I see him on Tuesday. I don't like sheet membranes. Kerdi's probably the best I've seen, but I don't like the idea of seams, period. I'd much rather the seamlessness of a liquid applied membrane, which is one of the reasons why I'm so keen on this Laticrete shower system.


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

I like this, and would rather use a liquid membrane. Just hope everything works as well as the alternatives on the market do. I would love to one stop shop at my laticrete dealer.


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

installing a HydroBan bonding flange drain on a project I'm doing this week.
looks great in my hand. drain goes in Monday.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Hell yea Brian... Did you email Henry ?


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## heathwwilson (Jan 31, 2012)

Do drains like that work with pvc pan liners out of curiosity and how do they adjust does it screw in or is it the snap and lock


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Brian does the drain have any approval markings on it?

I just searched the IAPMO website and Laticrete does list these new drains yet.

IAPMO certificates for these products are listed;

9235 Laticrete Water Proof Membrane
Laticrete Contractor Grade WPM
Laticrete HYDRO BAN
Laticrete HB One
LATICRETE® Hydro Barrier

Is there a certification in the box?

JW


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

didn't look, call your Laticrete rep


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Lol.. You're too sensitive to questions Brian..


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Sometimes it depends on the purpose behind the question.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Ceramictec said:


> didn't look, call your Laticrete rep


Didn't look.

Don't know.

Or Don't care?

If that is a new primary shower drain which it is. It needs a stamp and an IAPMO certification.

The Kerdi Drains have the letter in the box. The certificate can be printed of the IAPMO website. I have found none.

Where is the drain made? Does it say?

JW


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Bill_Vincent said:


> Sometimes it depends on the purpose behind the question.


Purpose behind the question is to install a drain that is approved and not install something not approved.

I would imagine that a company as large as Laticrete would not be shipping non-approved drains but experience has taught me sometimes these new products are quick to be released with not so much testing behind them.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to call a flood test and have my plumbing inspector say "Where is the approval stamp on that drain?" 

Bill where is your drain? What about Orlando? Did he not get one?

Maybe Brian got one because he doesn't flood test his showers.... :laughing:

Kidding Brian.

JW


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Didn't look.
> 
> Don't know.
> 
> ...





JohnFRWhipple said:


> Purpose behind the question is to install a drain that is approved and not install something not approved.
> 
> I would imagine that a company as large as Laticrete would not be shipping non-approved drains but experience has taught me sometimes these new products are quick to be released with not so much testing behind them.
> 
> I sure as hell wouldn't want to call a flood test and have my plumbing inspector say "Where is the approval stamp on that drain?"


do you think Laticrete would make a drain and not have a certification ?

there not out for the public yet. some are doing what you call......."Beta Testing"

you want more info? wait until it comes out or call Laticrete. the literature I have is for my eyes only :thumbsup:


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## tileman2000 (Feb 14, 2011)

Ceramictec said:


> do you think Laticrete would make a drain and not have a certification ?
> 
> there not out for the public yet. some are doing what you call......."Beta Testing"
> 
> you want more info? wait until it comes out or call Laticrete. the literature I have is for my eyes only :thumbsup:


Thank you, Mr. Bond. :laughing:


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Brian will you use any of the fleece reinforcement to lap the drain to mud bed tie in?

What about roughing up that flange? It looks slick - we use plumbers emery cloth to rough up all liquid membrane connections to our linear drains and closing drain connections.

Wish I had one to Beta Test

Bill did they send one to you?

JW


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Not yet. As for roughing up the drain, there's no need. Hydroban will stick to it just fine. John, what's making you so skeptical about the drains that you're doing everything to can to discredit them without coming right out and saying it? As for R&D, you know damn well that Laticrete leads the industry, and they won't put a product on the market that doesn't EXCEED the spec they're trying to meet. 

So what's the problem?


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

Bill_Vincent said:


> As for roughing up the drain, there's no need. Hydroban will stick to it just fine.


what he said ! :thumbsup:

HydroBan also doesnt require a fabric.
although some use it, I might use it only at the floor/wall cove.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Bill_Vincent said:


> Not yet. As for roughing up the drain, there's no need. Hydroban will stick to it just fine. John, what's making you so skeptical about the drains that you're doing everything to can to discredit them without coming right out and saying it? As for R&D, you know damn well that Laticrete leads the industry, and they won't put a product on the market that doesn't EXCEED the spec they're trying to meet.
> 
> So what's the problem?


No Problem.

Bill I'm looking forward to the drain release and you can bet I'll install them. Just asking questions getting my ducks in a row. 

To me roughing up the surface makes perfect sense and would increase the surface area for the Hydro Ban to bite to.

JW


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

It certainly wouldn't hurt, but it's not necessary, either.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

In getting ready to use the niches.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Bill_Vincent said:


> So what's the problem?


Laticrete didn't stamp "JW APPROVED" on it.:no:


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Evan1968 said:


> Laticrete didn't stamp "JW APPROVED" on it.:no:


LOL

That would have been nice. But I would have settled for a cUPC or a CSA engraving as well.

I did email Henry about my concerns over their tile top drain and flow rates. Will see if Laticrete's tech department can find out why this airlock issue comes up.

I was speaking with one of my suppliers and was told a few days back that it was the room below the bottom of the tile top and the drain surface that is an issue. I have a new drain with more room and little nubs or hair catchers that help break up the water and speed things up. We'll see.

cUPC


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## StoneTooling (Sep 12, 2011)

They are code approved:
http://www.stonetooling.com/Laticrete-Hydro-Ban-Bonding-Flange-Drain-p/70.52200.htm

Look under benefits section to see ASME and CSA codes it adheres to.


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> I did email Henry about my concerns over their tile top drain and flow rates. Will see if Laticrete's tech department can find out why this airlock issue comes up.


umm yeah :shutup:


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

Laticrete flange drain installed last Friday, mud bed done and floated mud with thinset.
bed dried throughout the weekend and we painted the walls & floors today with HydroBan.
no flood test just to drive JW crazy.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Ceramictec said:


> Laticrete flange drain installed last Friday, mud bed done and floated mud with thinset.
> bed dried throughout the weekend and we painted the walls & floors today with HydroBan.
> no flood test just to drive JW crazy.



Brian that is not enough time for a mud bed to dry out. If you use a traditional 4-1 mud bed with a thinset skim coat you should wait 2-4 weeks before Hydro Banning it.

If you use the 3701 fortified mud bed I'm told you can cover it in as early as three days. Not two. :blink:

When you cover a mud bed to early with a liquid waterproofing like Hydro Ban (Aqua D included) they blister as the trapped moisture below tries to get out. This shows up on about hour 24-48 of a flood test.

Perhaps the dry times are different compared to Florida and Vancouver but I have seen first hand these water blisters and many setters online as well.

Next time use 3701 and do that prep on Thursday.

JW


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Brian that is not enough time for a mud bed to dry out. If you use a traditional 4-1 mud bed with a thinset skim coat you should wait 2-4 weeks before Hydro Banning it.
> 
> If you use the 3701 fortified mud bed I'm told you can cover it in as early as three days. Not two.
> 
> ...


Yeah Brian...what were you thinking!? 10 lashes with a crusty grout float for you! Bad setter,bad setter!


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

So when are these laticrete systems supposed to be on the market?


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

April 1st.. Yea Brian ,20 knocks to head with a full roll of Ditra ..


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm having a hard time seeing what is going on in this pic posted by FM78. 

Is there a drop in the foundation for the shower? That is, if the shower floor is (relatively) level with the floor adjacent (where the WC goes), how was any slope developed otherwise?

Thing is, I have a small shower coming up in a new construction build (54" x 72") that I would like to keep the shower floor fairly close to the adjacent bath floor (but still have a curb at the shower entrance).

What amount of drop in the monolithic slab would you recommend (2", 3" or what?) 

I hope this makes sense.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Hi TX , ate you asking how is it possible to have a slope and still be level with the tile and the drain?. 
Sorry, I didn't major in English studies.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Ceramictec said:


> Bill,
> some guys mix their mud way too wet. from looking at Johns pictures he is one of them. I would never mix my mud like wet concrete. it would take 2 weeks for the moisture to leave. I make mine on the very damp side and have no problem painting it in 2-3 days.


Brian you would think that is the case but if you actually read my posts you would realize I use Mapei's Mapecem Pre-mix Fast Setting Screed Mortar. It cures out faster than the Laticrete deck mud and can be topped with Mapei's Aqua Defense in 24 hours. Two days sooner than 3701. Part of the reason I prefer it. There is no faster setting product I know of. I still give it three days and have yet to test out first hand the 24 hour data.










Here is the link so you can look it up. You should use a Mag Float since it's quite sticky and it is quite wet but starts kicking in about 40 minutes to shape.

Did you see this video. Check it out this is only 1/8" - 1/4" thick over shiplap. Reinforced with diamond lath.


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## Clark Bilston (Jan 24, 2012)

That is exactly why I stopped showering with my hammer.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Clark Bilston said:


> That is exactly why I stopped showering with my hammer.


I'd like to see Brian do that with his dry-pack.

What is sad is that this method of installation is no longer OK in the big picture. Now it seems that your only allow the products like Ditra or Spider Web in that type of set up.

I would bet anything that the skim coat of Mapecem with diamond lath is twice as strong as Ditra any day.

What are the foam based like to work overtop of? Are they able to be struck with a hammer? I don't like tiling over anything I can't kick or beat on with force. :laughing:


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

:blink:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Brian, don't worry. I think John is just letting out a bit of pent up aggression.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

JW said:


> I don't like tiling over anything


Your not a tiler....remember?


> I just like the prep work and the design.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> I would bet anything that the skim coat of Mapecem with diamond lath is twice as strong as Ditra any day.


I don't see any relationship between the two. I'd not do the prior and don't like the latter is about the only thing I can see.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Starting a job on Tuesday. Can't get anything quick enough except for finpan niches :sad:
I made my own and cost me $12 bux for some 3/4" foam and a tube of kerdi fix :clap:


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

That's some smart thinkin Todd! :thumbsup:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Evan1968 said:


> That's some smart thinkin Todd! :thumbsup:


Learned that one from me good buddy Angus. I was lookin at $90 bux for 2... The alternative was $32- doing it this way and I got enough foam for at least 3 more niches :rockon:


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Todd said:


> I made my own and cost me $12 bux for some 3/4" foam and a tube of kerdi fix


HOLY CRAP!! Is that a niche or a coffin?!?!?!?


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> I made my own and cost me $12 bux for some 3/4" foam and a tube of kerdi fix :clap:


Paint them some color, stamp them with "TD Enterprises", and sell them for $70. Give me a cut of each sale and I'll even go to all the tile boards and promote it. :thumbsup: 
$10 per unit sold should do. :laughing:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Bill_Vincent said:


> HOLY CRAP!! Is that a niche or a coffin?!?!?!?


:laughing:
The big one is actually for my friend that is DIY,ing her own shower. She does all my digital shower designs for me and does a great job so I treated her to a free niche. I may be adding another shelf in there somewhere. The other 2 that I made are for a job this week.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Todd - Why not add some custom LED lighting into those niches?

How does the Hydro Ban bite to the stryofoam?

How long do you let the KErdi Fix dry before covering it with Kerdi Fix?

JW


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## Clark Bilston (Jan 24, 2012)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> I'd like to see Brian do that with his dry-pack.
> 
> What is sad is that this method of installation is no longer OK in the big picture. Now it seems that your only allow the products like Ditra or Spider Web in that type of set up.
> 
> ...


Just poking fun. I have no experience in the area! Just thought it was funny to smash tiles. :thumbup:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Jdub,

Here at Alone Eagle Remodeling aka TD Enterprises we spend excessive time and research for every one of our custom premade niches! The kerdi fix is applied and a large format tile sits on top of the niche for 2 hours to keep pressure on the foam board while to create a powerful chemical bond. Afterwards, the fabric is applied with HydroBan, dried and another thin coat is applied. All of our custom niches undergo a 79 hour flood test to ensure a perfect watertight application for our clients :laughing::laughing::thumbup:

(How was that...?)


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Actually the HydroBan bites to it very good. That foam is basically the same as the pink foam used for other companies niches and the kerdi fix does glue them together very nice


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Tech Dawg said:


> Jdub,
> 
> Here at Alone Eagle Remodeling aka TD Enterprises we spend excessive time and research for every one of our custom premade niches! The kerdi fix is applied and a large format tile sits on top of the niche for 2 hours to keep pressure on the foam board while to create a powerful chemical bond. Afterwards, the fabric is applied with HydroBan, dried and another thin coat is applied. All of our custom niches undergo a 79 hour flood test to ensure a perfect watertight application for our clients :laughing::laughing::thumbup:
> 
> (How was that...?)


I want pictures. :laughing:

That's funny. Kerdi fix takes a while to cure when sandwiched between too waterproof sources. Something like 1/8" per day. Not that I make niches like that but if I did I would use the Kerdi fix on the outer edges and then the hydroban on the inner edges. This way the Kerdi fix can fully cure out.

Then I would flood out all wall assemblies for 72 hours. LOL

JW


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

I'd flood em for a month, just to be sure.


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

finished grouting the flat pebble shower floor today and snapped these shots for Henry R, Laticrete & my Florida Rep. :thumbsup:


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

Very nice!

When you install those pebble floors.....do you have trouble fitting together. I 'm on my second shower floor with a similar tumbled stone that I'm constantly pulling stones out to fit tightly together.
Could be just the china crap I'm buying?


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

:laughing:


Tech Dawg said:


> Jdub,
> 
> Here at Alone Eagle Remodeling aka TD Enterprises we spend excessive time and research for every one of our custom premade niches! The kerdi fix is applied and a large format tile sits on top of the niche for 2 hours to keep pressure on the foam board while to create a powerful chemical bond. Afterwards, the fabric is applied with HydroBan, dried and another thin coat is applied. All of our custom niches undergo a 79 hour flood test to ensure a perfect watertight application for our clients :laughing::laughing::thumbup:
> 
> (How was that...?)


 
Do you sell cars too?


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

srwcontracting said:


> Very nice!
> 
> When you install those pebble floors.....do you have trouble fitting together. I 'm on my second shower floor with a similar tumbled stone that I'm constantly pulling stones out to fit tightly together.
> Could be just the china crap I'm buying?


I was doing the same. it's all made in China. 
some had gaps when locking them in and some hot, so I pulled them and fit a new one in. I was tying to be too precise when installing this and after the second row I said  and dropped them in fast and it looked the same....lol


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Pretty sweet, Brian! :thumbsup:


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

The drain looks great. Great strainer design. 

Is there a lip on the perimeter of the drain or is the grout just a little low in the bottom right there Brian?

What we have noticed with our linear drain installation is that the grout needs to be a hair higher than the drain lip - or it tends to hold back water and soap bubbles.

Might be you just need to touch up the grout and fill in that corner.

JW


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

HahahHa ! .. 
Oh my !,.. John is not gonna let Brian get away that easy.. Lol !


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

It's a shadow from the light. 

Install tile one day and you'll find out


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Maybe a data/install sheet on how to properly grout is needed in this situation? JW,want to find one,read it and re-post it for us DIY'rs to learn from?

....and what Brian said....


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Shadow ?. There's so much light in there, vampires would not dare walk in that shower..


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

Wow. Just effing wow.


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

I know Bill. Winners huh? :laughing:


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Nice work Brian. I am seeing more and more requests for the sliced pebbles. They look great and you dont need 14 bags of grout to fill them in. :laughing:


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Not in a FLAT area. in fact things seem smoother..


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> The drain looks great. Great strainer design.
> 
> Is there a lip on the perimeter of the drain or is the grout just a little low in the bottom right there Brian?


John, 
the grout is actually HIGHER then the drain grate and when my guy pulled the tape off it made the line you see. if you look closer you can see the grout is higher and cut off.

when your able to go out a buy one on April 1st and see the drain you'll see what I mean. make sure you tell the tile pros that install the tile to keep the tile a little higher then the top of the drain grate.


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

kevjob said:


> Nice work Brian. I am seeing more and more requests for the sliced pebbles. They look great and you dont need 14 bags of grout to fill them in. :laughing:


yeah I hate the look of the round pebbles grouted. :blink:


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

The grout is higher!

I wouldn't think your crew would slip up. Had to give you a "chirp" - wouldn't be right if I didn't.

I got my drain pre ordered threw Donny at Centanni Tile here in Vancouver

Love the Strainer design

Looks sharp

JW


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

John, one can only hope to be as perfect as you.

Some day.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm going to try some .. free of charge.. ohhhh !!


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Bill_Vincent said:


> John, one can only hope to be as perfect as you.
> 
> Some day.



ahh shucks Bill. Thanks :thumbup: That was such a nice thing to say!

Here is what I'm talking about. These setters where told by me to leave the tile higher than the linear drain so that once grouted the grout would be a hair higher than the drain. 

If not these little lips are like dams that hold back soap bubbles and water and make a great looking floor look not so great in a years time.

I like this floor tile but a mosaic with three different thicknesses of tile in one sqaure is a bad call for a shower floor:whistling

JW


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Floormasta78 said:


> I'm going to try some .. free of charge.. ohhhh !!


Did you get them? Henry said he would send me samples as well but so far in Vancouver - I got nothing. I'm not holding my breath for a sample and have Donny on stand by.

In Vancouver you can call Centanni Tile to pre-order the drains is you want. Say hi to Gloria for me.


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