# Are There Any Ethnicity Groups That You Will Not Bother Doing Business With



## tonyc56 (Nov 9, 2008)

For me personally Indians are by far the cheapest group of individuals I've ever dealt with. My last straw was with this Indian customer that just kept bargaining with me on price. So for chit and giggles I lowered by price by 99% and he still was bargaining with me...lol After that if I know they're Indians I don't waste my time anymore returning there calls. As far I'm concerned no more curry for me!


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Same exact way in England. They expect perfection on top of wanting it below your cost.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Usually have that problem Going to be dealing with a couple soon. We'll see how that turns out.


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## chewy (May 23, 2010)

Never do business with Indians.


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## baerconstructio (Feb 24, 2011)

Racism?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

People from Uranus, they're a bunch of aholes.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

baerconstructio said:


> Racism?


Errrrr?


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## Donnie D. (Feb 27, 2013)

same thing here guys


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## Okiecontractor (Oct 15, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> Errrrr?


I'm Indian...... Oh you mean India Indians.
The are cheap. Doing a hotel remodel right now. Guess who owns it.


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## chewy (May 23, 2010)

baerconstructio said:


> Racism?


So you will shed 25% off your bill and be back to fix "defects" free of charge for the next 5 years? Someones got to do it...


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## tonyc56 (Nov 9, 2008)

> Racism?


Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

I never stated Indians were an inferior race!!!!


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## baerconstructio (Feb 24, 2011)

chewy said:


> So you will shed 25% off your bill and be back to fix "defects" free of charge for the next 5 years? Someones got to do it...


No, my quote is my quote. If you don't like my price go with someone else.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

White people.


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## baerconstructio (Feb 24, 2011)

tonyc56 said:


> Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
> 
> I never stated Indians were an inferior race!!!!


Your thread says in the title are there ethnic groups you won't work with. Sounds racist to me.


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## chewy (May 23, 2010)

baerconstructio said:


> No, my quote is my quote. If you don't like my price go with someone else.


They will agree to your quote but will try haggle at the final payment and come up with a whole heap of bullchit defects they never mentionex until now.


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## tonyc56 (Nov 9, 2008)

> White people.


You racist...lol


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## chewy (May 23, 2010)

The Dutch.


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## tonyc56 (Nov 9, 2008)

> Your thread says in the title are there ethnic groups you won't work with. Sounds racist to me.


You obviously do not understand the definition of racism.

Again..

Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

I never stated Indians were an inferior race!!!!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The only time I ever had to threaten a lien is with an Indian. Went to here house took measurements for a small lattice patio cover with corbel tails. I told her I will have to submit this to your city and get permits which would include a small drawing. She jumped in an said "I'm an architect" I said great, are you going to submit your own plans? 
She said "yes". So she sends me the drawings by email and I asked have these been accepted by your city. She said yes. So we signed a contract and I ordered the materials. The lumberyard had to cut corbels on the tails. The day I was going to deliver her material because her son was going to paint it she says, I just talked to my city and they want 2x10 not 2x8 joists. 

Rut row! I said well you will have to pay extra for new material. I was able to get my lumberyard to cut 2' off that contained the corbel so the extra cost was about 200 bucks. But I was pissed because she said it was my responsibility as a contractor to have know the size of joists. I said you told me you were an architect and the city approved your drawing. As it turned out she lied to me and wasn't an architect. She tried not to pay me. All I had to do is send her a prelim notice and I got a check in the mail for the 200 bucks.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

cheap asses


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Race has everything to do with culture and the different ways people think.


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## chewy (May 23, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Race has everything to do with culture and the different ways people think.


No it doesnt, I have the displeasure of working with a white kid who even my black workmates say is a POS FOB coconut.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

The ethnic group that is difficult to make money off of is a group called poor people. It is comprised of the elderly, the struggling single people (whether elderly or not), the working poor. I did some work for a handicapper last week because my wife asked me to, and when it came time to pay, I told her that I would usually charge $180 and she could pay me what she could afford. She paid me $100, so I think I got off lucky.

Whenever I do something like this, I just figure from the beginning that I am doing a community service job. My reward is if they appreciate the work.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

chewy said:


> No it doesnt, I have the displeasure of working with a white kid who even my black workmates say is a POS FOB coconut.


I didn't say race has everything to do with being a pos did I? But it does, as a fact have a lot to do with culture. Especially if your native country is somewhere else.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I give anyone a price. We have lots of aisians and indians and foreign fairly well off types around here. The working class for the most part has got them in line of what to expect for prices. 

A very nice Asian lady did haggle with me quite well for a rather small job at her house. Because she was good at it, and her husband lacked the nads to do it himself, I did the job for her after knocking a couple bucks off. 

If the person humbly asks for my best price then I am more apt to knock something off. If some douche "ethnic" doctor asks me to knock a few grand off the price because he thinks I wont body slam him in his driveway, piss off.

In general anyone who appears arrogant, or doesnt give me even a nice weather we have today, they get a killer nuclear ass raping for a quote. Its not just your time that is being used up right now jerk off.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

tonyc56 said:


> You obviously do not understand the definition of racism.
> 
> Again..
> 
> ...


You obviously have a flawed definition of racism. Try this one:

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/Submit
noun
noun: racism
1.
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

How does this apparently educated group of professionals consider this an ok topic? Racial profiling on CT is not wht I'd expect from professional people.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

We know what the pretense of the thread is. I'll close it down if this erupts into a fight over race.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

baerconstructio said:


> Your thread says in the title are there ethnic groups you won't work with. Sounds racist to me.


Not work with, do business with. Frankly, every culture has it's take on how to do business. One or the other party has to adjust to the other culture's way of doing things (or possibly meet in the middle, but I haven't seen this happen). If a businessman chooses not to adapt to a culture's way of doing business, that's his choice, and there are definite business repercussions. 

I'm definitely not going to learn Hindi just to have a Hindi customer - that's not racist, that's just a choice. I'm also not to change my business / negotiation / customer satisfaction approach for each ethnicity. It isn't practical, it isn't desirable to me, and it isn't racist. 

You have an argument that this could be prejudice against an individual due to their ethnicity, but you didn't put one forth. On the other hand, I'm not particularly interested in dealing with people who believe I'm unclean, subhuman, or any of the other prejudices that may be brought to the table.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Some of the best proctologists out there make their patients think they smell like roses.

By the same token, there are clients that will gladly pay more for the same work (our point of view) when they "feel" like they got the best deal. We all know folks like these.

Let your materials cost be the bad guy..or gas costs...or the horror story of someone you know. Tell them how you really wish you could do it for even lower, if only for the higher cost of the quality materials. Ask them if they really want dollar store quality.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Okiecontractor said:


> I'm Indian...... Oh you mean India Indians.
> The are cheap. Doing a hotel remodel right now. Guess who owns it.


Mr. Patelle?


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## Okiecontractor (Oct 15, 2012)

donerightwyo said:


> Mr. Patelle?


Parimal Patel to be exact.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

I was trying to remember how to spell it


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

donerightwyo said:


> I was trying to remember how to spell it


My knee surgeon is Dr Patella


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## Okiecontractor (Oct 15, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> My knee surgeon is Dr Patella


Very fitting.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

hdavis said:


> Not work with, do business with. Frankly, every culture has it's take on how to do business. One or the other party has to adjust to the other culture's way of doing things (or possibly meet in the middle, but I haven't seen this happen). If a businessman chooses not to adapt to a culture's way of doing business, that's his choice, and there are definite business repercussions.
> 
> I'm definitely not going to learn Hindi just to have a Hindi customer - that's not racist, that's just a choice. I'm also not to change my business / negotiation / customer satisfaction approach for each ethnicity. It isn't practical, it isn't desirable to me, and it isn't racist.
> 
> You have an argument that this could be prejudice against an individual due to their ethnicity, but you didn't put one forth. On the other hand, I'm not particularly interested in dealing with people who believe I'm unclean, subhuman, or any of the other prejudices that may be brought to the table.


Nope your racist because you wont give them what they want. end off :thumbup:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Indians are amongst the smartest people I've met when it comes to education. There are lots of Indian engineers. It was explained to me once by an Indian. They said in their country construction workers are usually peasants that work for pennies a day. So it's hard for them to see us contractors as middle class Americans who deserve a wage the market demands. In India there are "haves" and "have nots" we would probably be in the "have not" corner in their country.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I have several Indian clients that are great, money is not an issue, never try to bargain, great to work for. I have looked at jobs for others evens some that are friends with my Indian clients, that I did not get the job because I would not bargain.

I was asked how it went by an older Indian client of mine after I went to his friends house. I told him the truth, not well they tried to get me to do work for free and change my price. 

He said that back in India they bargain for everything and everywhere and they still try to do it here. He told me not to worry, they will find someone cheaper and then enjoy complaining about the poor work that was done. 

Very similar to some Jewish people, they really enjoy the back and forth bargaining. One of my clients once jokingly told me to raise my price then let her bargain me down to the original price so she can feel better. She has been one of my best customers.

It never bothers me what ethnic background my potential clients have, I have more of a problem with occupations. Never work for airline pilots and be selective with engineers.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Indians are amongst the smartest people I've met when it comes to education. There are lots of Indian engineers. It was explained to me once by an Indian. They said in their country construction workers are usually peasants that work for pennies a day. So it's hard for them to see us contractors as middle class Americans who deserve a wage the market demands. In India there are "haves" and "have nots" we would probably be in the "have not" corner in their country.


That is what my client said also, 2 classes of people. Educated and uneducated, the educated would never think to work with their hands.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

rrk said:


> I have several Indian clients that are great, money is not an issue, never try to bargain, great to work for. I have looked at jobs for others evens some that are friends with my Indian clients, that I did not get the job because I would not bargain. I was asked how it went by an older Indian client of mine after I went to his friends house. I told him the truth, not well they tried to get me to do work for free and change my price. He said that back in India they bargain for everything and everywhere and they still try to do it here. He told me not to worry, they will find someone cheaper and then enjoy complaining about the poor work that was done. Very similar to some Jewish people, they really enjoy the back and forth bargaining. One of my clients once jokingly told me to raise my price then let her bargain me down to the original price so she can feel better. She has been one of my best customers. It never bothers me what ethnic background my potential clients have, I have more of a problem with occupations. Never work for airline pilots and be selective with engineers.


Except Jewish is not an ethnic group, it's a religion. It's not a race either.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Californiadecks said:


> Indians are amongst the smartest people I've met when it comes to education. There are lots of Indian engineers. It was explained to me once by an Indian. They said in their country construction workers are usually peasants that work for pennies a day. So it's hard for them to see us contractors as middle class Americans who deserve a wage the market demands. In India there are "haves" and "have nots" we would probably be in the "have not" corner in their country.


Tough nuggies. You're in America now. Pay the piper.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> Indians are amongst the smartest people I've met when it comes to education. There are lots of Indian engineers. It was explained to me once by an Indian. They said in their country construction workers are usually peasants that work for pennies a day. So it's hard for them to see us contractors as middle class Americans who deserve a wage the market demands. In India there are "haves" and "have nots" we would probably be in the "have not" corner in their country.


Thats all well and good until we pull up in our 50k trucks.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

Without exception, I don't do the following: offer discounts, drop my prices, haggle, sharpen my pencil, do favours.

Without exception, I don't deal with people that: ask for discounts, ask me to drop my price, want to haggle, ask me to 'sharpen my pencil" ask for favours.

I live in a province of Canada where legal matters are governed by the Civil Code and, in business, I follow it to the letter. 

I don't pay attention to the ethnicity or race, and I don't give a s!!t about other cultures.

Mark
( I am not racist, I hate everybody equally)


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Indians & old Italians are the cheapest. Jews will pay but everything is negotiable. There exception to all of course. I have a cars salesman friend who would confirm this. Lol. 
The nicest people of any ethnicity can become difficult when dealing with money.


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## Jeff G (Apr 5, 2010)

baerconstructio said:


> Your thread says in the title are there ethnic groups you won't work with. *Sounds racist to me*.


No, that would be prejudiced, or biased. To be a racist one must view themselves (or race) as holding the superior position over another ethnic group, or individual.

There are no sound reasoning to support a "racist" position. There may, however, be good reason to hold biases/prejudices, which may only infer problems with specific individuals, or specific cultures.

Most folks from India, Pakistan (and other nations in that region) at least that I've ever encountered, have all been very difficult to deal with in regards to pricing and value. 

More times than not, we base our prejudices on experience.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

My experience is you have to go through 10 Indians to get to one good one ready to sign, but when you get that one..its usally a home run.

big projects with big bucks.

it weird how you cant get the $2-3000 jobs but then get the $20,000..

so for me,, I admit having though like this,until I saw the pattern.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

My profiling is not ever racial. Not the ethnicitys like yall have where I am at. I tend to not take jobs where I see certain bumper stickers, especially political. Or at least I screen them more closely. Lol

For some reason I have been hired to do work for several people from Massachusetts. 4, to be exact. 

Wow. Got all four jobs, but those boys really like to poor mouth it. They spent a lot of time negotiating and figuring the cheapest route possible without sacrificing quality. They wanted good work, just didnt like the bid. Lol. All four basically called me a theif before they signed. Lol


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> My profiling is not ever racial. Not the ethnicitys like yall have where I am at. I tend to not take jobs where I see certain bumper stickers, especially political. Or at least I screen them more closely. Lol For some reason I have been hired to do work for several people from Massachusetts. 4, to be exact. Wow. Got all four jobs, but those boys really like to poor mouth it. They spent a lot of time negotiating and figuring the cheapest route possible without sacrificing quality. They wanted good work, just didnt like the bid. Lol. All four basically called me a theif before they signed. Lol


I work for a lot of openly liberal college professors, I live near Cal State Fullerton, and The University of Irvine. It sure is funny how much they try to talk me out of permits. But non-the-less they never balk at my price.


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## SDel Prete (Jan 8, 2012)

When someone tries to bargain with me it usually goes like this. The price for your job is $5000. Then they say " how's 4000?" Which is quickly followed by "how is $6000?" 

Long story short when someone offers to pay me less I offer to charge them more haha. I get many funny faces from them but then they see how it feels. From there I either get the job or not. Either way I don't mind. It's my price or goodbye.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

This thread is absolutely racist. Luckily it's as easy as not clicking on it. I think there are better things to learn on here.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

How so. It seems the question was asked from people who had bad experiences with people. When you do enough business with a diversified group of people you can come to your own conclusions. I would choose the word biased over racist.

Getting burned in the wallet tends to make you remember a lot of things. Having it happen several times in the same basic conditions gets you to lead to some conclusions that will make you change your business habits to keep your financials in the black.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

If you will not bother doing business with a certain race, that's racist. I didn't say it was wrong but to say it's not racist is foolish. To each his own.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

ArtisanRemod said:


> This thread is absolutely racist. Luckily it's as easy as not clicking on it. I think there are better things to learn on here.


Problem with this statement is it distracts and minimizes true racism that's alive and well in this country. This thread isn't any of that.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

It doesn't really boil down to race or an ethnic group.

Anybody can screw any of us anytime they want. Especially if they put on a good show in the early stages of the relationship.

The only thing that can help is experience, your gut feelings & the ability to read people. 

It also helps to have all your ducks in a row...:thumbsup:


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

griz said:


> It doesn't really boil down to race or an ethnic group.
> 
> Anybody can screw any of us anytime they want. Especially if they put on a good show in the early stages of the relationship.
> 
> ...


Agreed. 25 years in residential construction. I work for money. Not whites, blacks, Indians etc. If i get a funny feeling I make sure to have my ducks in a row and up the PIA fee. I don't care what color you are if your money is green I'm your guy.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Agreed. 25 years in residential construction. I work for money. Not whites, blacks, Indians etc. If i get a funny feeling I make sure to have my ducks in a row and up the PIA fee. I don't care what color you are if your money is green I'm your guy.


But if I'm constantly getting screwed by a duck, I'm going to start vetting ducks better.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> But if I'm constantly getting screwed by a duck, I'm going to start vetting ducks better.


Hopefully if you get screwed by a duck it will be a memorable enough experience you will not want to have again.....

Maybe keep an eye on anything with feathers...:laughing::laughing:


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> But if I'm constantly getting screwed by a duck, I'm going to start vetting ducks better.


Naturally. But to say that you don't do business with a particular race, which is the topic, is racist. I'm not saying it's wrong. You can work for people who's names end only in x if you want for all I care, but to not do business because of their race is by definition racist. I have no desire to argue with thick skulls, as I said, I should just cruise on by...goodnight.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Naturally. But to say that you don't do business with a particular race, which is the topic, is racist. I'm not saying it's wrong. You can work for people who's names end only in x if you want for all I care, but to not do business because of their race is by definition racist. I have no desire to argue with thick skulls, as I said, I should just cruise on by...goodnight.


Smart move


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Naturally. But to say that you don't do business with a particular race, which is the topic, is racist. I'm not saying it's wrong. You can work for people who's names end only in x if you want for all I care, but to not do business because of their race is by definition racist. I have no desire to argue with thick skulls, as I said, I should just cruise on by...goodnight.


So with that mind set would you also be classed as a racist if you dodged all groups of black people walking down the street because your worried you're gonna get knocked out? 

People have experiences with everything. I can't remember how many who have had bad experiences with Indians yet I can count on one had a few people who have had good experiences but to call someone a racist because they have had bad experiences is wrong. I my self have been locked in a house by a Indian couple who threatened me with wooden sticks. I have also seen more not pay their bills than pay their bills. I worked in London in the east end which is full of Indians. I have vastly more bad experiences than good so because I now no longer want to work for Indians I'm a racist!


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Robie said:


> I guess that throws screening a customer out the window.


I can usually tell within a couple minutes if somebody is worth dealing with or not.
These days I do a lot of freebie work ,especially for the veterans in my area.
Theres other people that think theyre really special on the other hand that I wont do work for no matter how much money they have.
Years ago i had some pompus ass call me from dundee(part of omaha)saying he was warren buffets neighbor and his ac wasnt working.
I told him warren buffet owed me money and hung up on him!:laughing:
Money doesnt make you any better than anybody else in my book,its what you do when you dont have that gets my attention anyway.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Over the years there have been a few threads about dealing with different ethnic groups.
So, when one has a bad experience with the same group discussed...one tends to stay away from dealing with that certain group.
Call it racism or old-fashion smarts...whatever. I call it being realistic about expectations.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

I had a bad experiance with taco bells chicken soft tacos a while back,tasted like it came out of a tuna fish can!
Has anybody else had problems with bad mexican food?:laughing:


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

plummen said:


> I had a bad experiance with taco bells chicken soft tacos a while back,tasted like it came out of a tuna fish can!
> Has anybody else had problems with bad mexican food?:laughing:


Do you keep ordering taco bell chicken soft tacos from the same joint?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

plummen said:


> I had a bad experiance with taco bells chicken soft tacos a while back,tasted like it came out of a tuna fish can!
> Has anybody else had problems with bad mexican food?:laughing:


No, but I once had some egg rolls that reminded me more of taquitos...:whistling


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Tried 2 differant locations over a 2-3 week period,they tasted nasty at both.
White guy worked at one location.maxican guy at other.
New posting:Are there any ethnic groups that you would not buy chicken tacos from?


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> I would go broke if I didn't do work for attorneys. My best customers are lawyers. I have one client who's the district attorney I won't say for where either. My wife and I go to there home for BBQs all the time. Thing with lawyers is they are not shy, and I appreciate that.


I worked for 4 attorneys in the last 4 months and doing a job next week an attorney.

all that talk is ridiculous..

there are scumbags everywhere..to refuse to work for a lawyer is stupid,,unless of course you are incompetent and destined to fluck the job up.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

plummen said:


> Tried 2 differant locations over a 2-3 week period,they tasted nasty at both.
> White guy worked at one location.maxican guy at other.
> New posting:Are there any ethnic groups that you would not buy chicken tacos from?


I didn't realize you could get Mexican food from Taco Bell...:whistling


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

plummen said:


> Tried 2 differant locations over a 2-3 week period,they tasted nasty at both.
> White guy worked at one location.maxican guy at other.
> New posting:Are there any ethnic groups that you would not buy chicken tacos from?


If I wanted quality Mexican food, I'd probably stay away from a Taco bell.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

When I was in the country club business, the top ten every month of late pays were attorneys.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Robie said:


> If I wanted quality Mexican food, I'd probably stay away from a Taco bell.


Well, that's very unfair of you Robie......


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Another good thing about Cali, you can get good Mexican food here!


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Robie said:


> Over the years there have been a few threads about dealing with different ethnic groups.
> So, when one has a bad experience with the same group discussed...one tends to stay away from dealing with that certain group.
> Call it racism or old-fashion smarts...whatever. I call it being realistic about expectations.


Oh you crazy americans,heres picture of me at work before I retired.
Soon I move to carmel california and live on beach,maybe sell sea shells to tourists like you!:laughing:


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Your point?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

plummen said:


> Oh you crazy americans,heres picture of me at work before I retired. Soon I move to carmel california and live on beach,maybe sell sea shells to tourists like you!:laughing:


Huh?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I would imagine he his saying he knows what it is like to be stereotyped.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

plummen said:


> Oh you crazy americans,heres picture of me at work before I retired.
> Soon I move to carmel california and live on beach,maybe sell sea shells to tourists like you!:laughing:


Imagine that, a Plumber....:whistling:laughing::laughing:

dam turd herders....:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Jaws said:


> I would imagine he his saying he knows what it is like to be stereotyped.


I would say that if he was successful and retired...he got over it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Robie said:


> I would say that if he was successful and retired...he got over it.


He didn't make a big deal out of it. Kind of goes with his posts in this thread. He does not seem to be for stereotyping/profiling whatever. Maybe thats his reason.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

griz said:


> Imagine that, a Plumber....:whistling:laughing::laughing:
> 
> dam turd herders....:laughing::laughing::laughing:


He probably made 1,100,000 a year because there are 2 of them.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> I worked for 4 attorneys in the last 4 months and doing a job next week an attorney.
> 
> all that talk is ridiculous..
> 
> there are scumbags everywhere..to refuse to work for a lawyer is stupid,,unless of course you are incompetent and destined to fluck the job up.


You qouted the wrong post. I refuse work to whoever I dont like. Period. I have plenty of work with out working for a profession that makes its living looking for loopholes. 

Yes im prejudiced against big city attorneys. The couple I have been contacted by were douche bags.

I posted directly after that and said I do a lot of work for local small town attorneys.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Jaws said:


> He didn't make a big deal out of it. Kind of goes with his posts in this thread. He does not seem to be for stereotyping/profiling whatever. Maybe thats his reason.


That may very well be...and that's fine.

The bottom line for me, and this is more of what I see socially than personally, is that....we all are supposed to overcome our prejudices regardless of real-life experiences. 

I'm just not going to fall into the PC trap of being forced to feel a certain way about some-thing or some-body because some-one else thinks I should.

Hypothetically....if I read posts over the years about dealing with red-haired protestants, and I have a bad business deal with a red-haired protestant...chances are, I'm going to shy away from dealing with red-haired protestants.

If someone else thinks I'm a bigot, let them deal with the red-haired protestant. If my business starts to suffer or I hear great stories about red-haired protestants, I change my plan.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Robie said:


> That may very well be...and that's fine. The bottom line for me, and this is more of what I see socially than personally, is that....we all are supposed to overcome our prejudices regardless of real-life experiences. I'm just not going to fall into the PC trap of being forced to feel a certain way about some-thing or some-body because some-one else thinks I should. Hypothetically....if I read posts over the years about dealing with red-haired protestants, and I have a bad business deal with a red-haired protestant...chances are, I'm going to shy away from dealing with red-haired protestants. If someone else thinks I'm a bigot, let them deal with the red-haired protestant. If my business starts to suffer or I hear great stories about red-haired protestants, I change my plan.


It's the same problem with why the TSA is shaking down little old ladies at the airport, but letting the 27 year old middle eastern walk on by.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Californiadecks said:


> It's the same problem with why the TSA is shaking down little old ladies at the airport, but letting the 27 year old middle eastern walk on by.


PC...working hard to make you feel bad and make the problems worse.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Robie said:


> That may very well be...and that's fine.
> 
> The bottom line for me, and this is more of what I see socially than personally, is that....we all are supposed to overcome our prejudices regardless of real-life experiences.
> 
> ...


Not disagreeing. 

You asked what his point was. That was my take.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

JBM said:


> He probably made 1,100,000 a year because there are 2 of them.


Thats one of the other plumbers, hoss :laughing:


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> That is deeply disturbing!!


I didn't used to look like that until some contractor posted in another thread about how he just parks under the canopy at HD in the loading zone to do his shopping, because he's eventually going to come back out and load! :laughing:


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

africans and rumanians, jesus, go squeeze water out of them rocks
the germans are deceiving little basturds too.
the UK' people try to get you drunk, then screw ya, i don't like working for them .
Them Italians are the worst bunch thou, they take pride in sticking it to ya


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

brunothedog said:


> africans and rumanians, jesus, go squeeze water out of them rocks the germans are deceiving little basturds too. the UK' people try to get you drunk, then screw ya, i don't like working for them . Them Italians are the worst bunch thou, they take pride in sticking it to ya


I have to ask Dog, do you have any favorites?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Almost 8:00 a.m. There or 0800?


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> I have to ask Dog, do you have any favorites?


I love working for the Chinese people, did a couple jobs for a corporations employees, and one gave me more than I asked.

And the russian mafia, bad ass dudes that throw money at your feet.

And My best clients are farmers, thems poor people don't have you do the work if they don't already have the money to pay you, and while your working for them, its salami, vino, and prosiuto every day, all day


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

"its salami, vino, and prosiuto every day, all day"

that's the only thing worth reading in this entire brain dead thread


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

Italians

I've never had good luck working for them or with them. They nit pick about every little thing and change their minds all the time. I've never made a decent wage working with them.


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## joeh20 (Jan 4, 2012)

I helped a young GC on a home makeover for a woman that owns the oldest Greek restaurant in town. A real PITA to deal with. I told the guy when he was putting the Estimate together that she would b!tch, gripe and complain about every invoice. He wanted to bill by the week and told him no, way, he needed to get material money and then finish it and get paid and get gone if he wanted to do it all. 

She was notorious for screwing people from food vendors to her own wait staff. No one would even bid on her work. This guy needed the work and she knew me for over 40 years, so I helped out. I helped him write it all up to get all his materials and all his labor in his first material draw, she thought she was not even paying for all the material. He had his final bill a full half of the total bid, and she started in on him. It didn't look like I wanted, You took too long. The floors don't match like I expected. I'm going told you so. He calms her down and gives her 25% off the final payment she buys it and pays up. He made more on that job than any he had that year, by letting her think she won. 

We were in her restaurant a few months latter, I said watch this, I took my bill up there and told the girl taking money that I wasn't going to pay the whole bill, that the steak wasn't as good as I thought it should be and that the baked potato was old and cold and the salad wasn't fresh. The GC was standing by me going what's wrong with you, a second later the owner lady comes out and says, you owe nothing and tears the check up. I walked back to the table and put a $20 bill for the tip and out the door we go. 

It ain't who wins, it's who think they won that matters.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

joeh20 said:


> I helped a young GC on a home makeover for a woman that owns the oldest Greek restaurant in town. A real PITA to deal with. I told the guy when he was putting the Estimate together that she would b!tch, gripe and complain about every invoice. He wanted to bill by the week and told him no, way, he needed to get material money and then finish it and get paid and get gone if he wanted to do it all.
> 
> She was notorious for screwing people from food vendors to her own wait staff. No one would even bid on her work. This guy needed the work and she knew me for over 40 years, so I helped out. I helped him write it all up to get all his materials and all his labor in his first material draw, she thought she was not even paying for all the material. He had his final bill a full half of the total bid, and she started in on him. It didn't look like I wanted, You took too long. The floors don't match like I expected. I'm going told you so. He calms her down and gives her 25% off the final payment she buys it and pays up. He made more on that job than any he had that year, by letting her think she won.
> 
> ...


Great story, and it points out that understanding how your customer is accustomed to do business can change how you have to do business.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

In the last 2 years, if I did not work for Jewish, Indians, Italians, or the extremely religious, I would be doing less than half the volume that I do. 

Plain and simple....I will work with anyone that I can communicate with. If I can not understand them and they can not understand me, then I walk away. No sense in doing a job that is doomed for lack of communication. 

This can be due to poor english or can be due to not being able to "connect" with them, their ideas, or their methods.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Robie said:


> That may very well be...and that's fine.
> 
> The bottom line for me, and this is more of what I see socially than personally, is that....we all are supposed to overcome our prejudices regardless of real-life experiences.
> 
> ...


 funny-reading through this thread, I was going to use the red headed analogy myself.

also interested that you used the protestant angle. I was thinking that myself.

up untill 2008-2009 almost all of my business was with Catholics. My work was focused within a 10 block radius of my house, the local catholic church was the center of community life for my customer base and I am very comfortable dealing with catholics- particularly at a certain economic level.

but since 2009 we have covered 5 counties in order to specialize in one aspect of our trade and that means I regularly deal with a MUCH wider range of backgrounds than I used to-and the economic level I deal with is MUCH higher than previously.

absolutely no reflection on you robie

but what really comes across to me reading a lot of the posts in this thread----is---- how insecure a lot of guys are operating outside their comfort zone. guys will gussy it up- blame the other party---pretend someone else is to blame----------- but to me what it looks like is weakness---a lack of "game"----- poor business skills and a shockingly low self confidence level . Basically they sound a lot like me prior to about 2009.

Best wishes all,
Stephen


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

Can anyone explain to me, why Chinese people are the worlds worst drivers?

It's because you can blindfold them with a piece of dental floss!


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

Living and working in NYC, I get the opportunity to deal with all the groups mentioned in this thread. Although some groups are harder to deal with, I've been screwed by all types. Bad customers come in all forms.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

Before I forget-
I would like to describe an experience I had this past summer dealing with an indian couple

both people were doctors.

the first project we did early in the summer and I needed to have some roof tiles custom made to repair their home. we also needed to rent a man lift to do the job in a practical fashion. the job would have taken much longer without the lift and been riskier and more expensive. without the ability or inclination to have the roof tiles custom made the job would have been impossible.

We then arranged to come back in late august to do some more repairs---agin needing to rent a man lift and do some pretty tricky work with hard to locate materials.

through the whole process- the 2 doctors could not possibly have been nicer. 

they were polite and friendly

I only met the wife in person once- but we spoke on the phone several times-she was always at work during the day

the husband was always at home,coming and going during the day

Yes, they asked a LOT of questions-and they asked the same questions over and over and over-a lot of the same questions EVERY time we met/talked.

At one point in july/early august they went back to India for 5 weeks-we talked a lot about that.

the husband told me a bit one day about how common roof tiles are in India and how they are made and distributed there as opposed to the comparative rarity here in Ohio.

Both times the husband paid me in full with zero hassle right there on the spot. Yes, they did ask some questions about money- but they well understood what they were getting, the difficulties/costs involved with providing the required tile pieces etc.

they really appreciated the fact that I at age 51 was working each day with my sons---and that my father had worked with HIS father in a similar line of work-and that my grandfather had worked with my great grand father much the same way.

they were interested to see that some of the actual tools we were using-had been my grandfathers-and that we were also using other tools that exactly matched what my grandfather had used.

also interestingly- the house had been built about 28 years ago. from my perspective it's a new house because most of our projects date from the 1880's to the 1920's rather than the mid '80's.

the guy who built the house was an older guy who built it with his own hands using 2 helpers- that's it. From what I can tell those 3 people did EVERYTHING with no subcontractors.

Part of what we did was correct some mistakes the builder had made 28 years ago, due to the fact that he was operating ,in many cases outside his area of expertise----- site building skylights/botching the flashing etc.

It may be a case of "live and learn"------ my 2 indian doctors may well have treated the original builder quite differently than they treated us------ I really don't know- but I would say that we would happily work for them again at any time,
stephen


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Californiadecks said:


> Another good thing about Cali, you can get good Mexican food here!


How could you not?:laughing:


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## Jeff G (Apr 5, 2010)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Naturally. But to say that you don't do business with a particular race, which is the topic, is racist. I'm not saying it's wrong. You can work for people who's names end only in x if you want for all I care, but to not do business because of their race is by definition racist. I have no desire to argue with thick skulls, as I said, I should just cruise on by...goodnight.


So, you get to define the definition of "racist" for the rest of us? Which, I might add, is contrary to the contemporary definition of exactly what racism entails. You may want to consult a Webster's for better illumination.

If nothing else, this thread serves a a warning to those contractors whom may be unaware of certainly trends within ethnic groups. In particular, trends that have the potential of affecting business margins. Furthermore, whether or not you realize it (could be due to the fact that you've never experiences such), these things do happen, and can be associated with particular ethic groups. Now this doesn't mean that automatically every person that's an Indian (or whatever ethnicity) is going to fall in line with the above description regarding being difficult to deal with concerning money. We cannot universally lump everyone into one big pile and simply say, "stay away from these folks!" 

The SIMPLE fact is: every one of us should know our numbers, know what it takes to stay in business (License, insurance, office supplies, phone, equipment, etc), what it cost to produce a job (labor, materials, specific job costs like porta-potty, etc), and know our markup and profit that would apply equally to ALL jobs we produce. Once we have all this figured out and readily available, our price is our only price we can come up with if we want to remain viable. There is no fudging, no reduced rate, etc, because what we need to get for our work is based upon our actual numbers that is required to stay in business. Any deviation would subsequently result in going out of business. 

Therefore, in my humble opinion, the crux of this thread is to serve in pointing out, to anyone that will listen, that there is certainly a trend going on here (and has been as long as I can remember, and I started in this line of work in 1976), which honestly doesn't apply universally (my experience, however, and others as well, tells me it is fairly common). But common sense (logic) should tell everyone of us just that.


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## Live_oak (Jul 22, 2013)

I find this thread really disturbing and distasteful, and yes, it crosses the borders into outright racism. At least I'm not alone in expressing these sentiments. And if I were a potential customer, it would be even more disturbing to me to find out that my money wasn't "good enough" to pay someone with, simply because of what my background might be. If you're going to judge, judge the individual an ******* rather than labeling every single individual with the sins of others.

People, it's just business. If you do your job by estimating the job correctly, having a well written contract (THAT is the biggie), and performing the job to the best of your abilities, it doesn't matter who the customer on the other side of the transaction might be, as long as their check clears. It doesn't matter that they ask you to lower your price. You say no, or you don't take the job in the first place. It's not _personal_ on their part to attempt to haggle. Just as it's not personal on your part to not haggle. Don't be "insulted" and take it personally and generalize one customer's specific behaviors to others that might look or talk similarly. 

You'd be doing your business a disservice, and you're also injuring yourself to take on that type of mental insult to your ego. Really, that's what a lot of the complaints that I see in this thread seem to be more about than anything else. "How dare someone question my bid or treat me in any way that implies I'm not their social equal?" We live on a large globe, and business is conducted in many different fashions around that globe. Adapt. Laugh yourself all the way to the bank instead of becoming personally offended that they didn't treat you like you were the fount of knowledge for all things construction. Don't let your lack of personal self esteem turn _you_ into the ******* contractor that too many homeowners generalize negative things about. That's also feeding a negative stereotype. 

Be a freaking professional. A businessperson.

If they are just too much of a PITA for even a good sized PITA tax, gently laugh at the poor SOB whose business isn't successful enough to be able to have the freedom to turn down their job. That's the whole point of being an _independent contractor_? Right? You get to set your own rates and hours. If someone who wants you to do a job and can't deal with either, then you move on to someone else who can deal with your parameters. Regardless of race, or ethnicity. 

Money is green. And it's stupid to limit it's presence in your pocket for any other reason than actual personal safety. So what they treat you like dirt and won't invite you to their daughter's cotillion? A large check usually salves those bruised feelings. If you take everything so personal that it won't, then you aren't as good of a businessperson as you think you are.


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## Jeff G (Apr 5, 2010)

Live_oak said:


> I find this thread really disturbing and distasteful, and yes, it crosses the borders into outright racism.


How so? Being politically correct (which is what I infer as your motivation; however, I may be misunderstanding you) is a far cry from actual racism.



> At least I'm not alone in expressing these sentiments. And if I were a potential customer, it would be even more disturbing to me to find out that my money wasn't "good enough" to pay someone with, simply because of what my background might be. If you're going to judge, judge the individual an ******* rather than labeling every single individual with the sins of others.


If anyone is doing that, then it is on their own head to account for their decision. No one else should force another person to comply with with some relativistic notion that would result in harm of either themselves, or another person, period. We all must understand what good business ethics entails, which would certainly not encompass pointing an accusatory finger at a specific culture that, in turn, lumps everyone in that culture into one big pot by stating they all are guilty of ........

What ever happened to common-sense?

Moreover, what you've described is not at all my take on the intentions of the OP. The crux of this thread was to discuss the reasons why we have concluded that there is something to some cultures predominately acting in specific ways. I would venture a guess it would be closely akin to say, someone in our culture raised up during the depression whom now has a proclivity to save practically anything and everything they perceive as having value (in short, they hardly every throw anything away). These things such as this are learned and vary from one culture to another based upon experiences/environment.



> People, it's just business. If you do your job by estimating the job correctly, having a well written contract (THAT is the biggie), and performing the job to the best of your abilities, it doesn't matter who the customer on the other side of the transaction might be, as long as their check clears.



No one is disputing that, at least as far as I can tell.



> It doesn't matter that they ask you to lower your price. You say no, or you don't take the job in the first place. It's not _personal_ on their part to attempt to haggle. Just as it's not personal on your part to not haggle. Don't be "insulted" and take it personally and generalize one customer's specific behaviors to others that might look or talk similarly.


Haggling is one thing, but withholding payment is quite another, wouldn't you agree? If anyone detects a pattern that is applicable to a certain group of folks, shouldn't the astute business person take note of this? Not to merely announce to the world the evils of said group, but to reflect on this pattern for any future endeavors. This is the crux of what this thread infers. Some folks, can and do take it too far and potentially get into their own biased views, and even racism. I just don't see the latter just yet. Perhaps I'm wrong and you could point it out where I might have misunderstood.




> You'd be doing your business a disservice, and you're also injuring yourself to take on that type of mental insult to your ego. Really, that's what a lot of the complaints that I see in this thread seem to be more about than anything else. "How dare someone question my bid or treat me in any way that implies I'm not their social equal?"


Perhaps, but wouldn't that require somewhat exhaustive knowledge on our behalf if we make a claim to know the true motivations of others? It may, however, "seem" as such, but can we know this without doubt when we merely assume. In other words, what reasoning are we using to come to our conclusions, particularly "truth claims"?



> We live on a large globe, and business is conducted in many different fashions around that globe. Adapt. Laugh yourself all the way to the bank instead of becoming personally offended that they didn't treat you like you were the fount of knowledge for all things construction. Don't let your lack of personal self esteem turn _you_ into the ******* contractor that too many homeowners generalize negative things about. That's also feeding a negative stereotype.
> 
> Be a freaking professional. A businessperson.
> 
> ...


Once again, I do not perceive this is the crux of this thread, i.e., bruised egos, being offended, etc. It has, in my view, been about the propensity of certain ethnic groups to possess the mindset of acting in an unethical manner regarding business transactions. Nothing more, nothing less. As Robie alluded to: it is based upon reality, not conjecture.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Live_oak said:


> I find this thread really disturbing and distasteful, and yes, it crosses the borders into outright racism. At least I'm not alone in expressing these sentiments. And if I were a potential customer, it would be even more disturbing to me to find out that my money wasn't "good enough" to pay someone with, simply because of what my background might be. If you're going to judge, judge the individual an ******* rather than labeling every single individual with the sins of others.
> 
> People, it's just business. If you do your job by estimating the job correctly, having a well written contract (THAT is the biggie), and performing the job to the best of your abilities, it doesn't matter who the customer on the other side of the transaction might be, as long as their check clears. It doesn't matter that they ask you to lower your price. You say no, or you don't take the job in the first place. It's not personal on their part to attempt to haggle. Just as it's not personal on your part to not haggle. Don't be "insulted" and take it personally and generalize one customer's specific behaviors to others that might look or talk similarly.
> 
> ...


Does that mean banks are racist to black people because the majority of them have bad credit so the banks won't give them credit. We run a business that needs to make money. Some people and some cultures are a nightmare to work with. Not all of them but some of them. If we had a system for contractors in place where we could figure out who the bad ones are and the good ones are like a credit score then it would be much easier for us but we don't so you either make that judgement call and decide for your self if they are gonna be a good customer or you use past experience. If you just decide a certain culture is bad then that's racist but if you find from experience dealing with a certain type if person that they are a nightmare your gonna dodge that culture. Its not racism.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The end


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