# Lead carpenter?



## vital151 (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi guys, I have a small remodeling company, and up until now we've been doing one job at a time, not subbing anything out except for the electric and plumbing. My guys would just use my tools. This year was very blessed for me and I have more work then I know what to do with. I want to form one more 2 man crew and have my current lead carpenter be in charge of it. My question is this... I pay him $30 per hour, what tools should I expect him to have besides the basic hand tools? Should he have his own miter saw, compressor, guns, table saw, etc? Advice would be greatly appreciated thanks in advance.

www.JerseyRemodeling.com


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

I supply all tools over $200 bucks. IF it is a unique tool I usually by it for them as gifts and give to them.

I set a tool budget of about 2-3K a year for 4-6 guys


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

> I supply all tools over $200 bucks. IF it is a unique tool I usually by it for them as gifts and give to them.


Yeah, something along those lines:thumbsup:


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Any job I have been on either union or not, it was just hand tools...Power tools wear out and that should be a contractors responsibility and cost. What next, you want him to supply materials too?...


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Don't know where your from, but around here $30 and hour would warrant him having circular saw, recip saw, drills/drivers and other basic power tools.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

PA woodbutcher said:


> Don't know where your from, but around here $30 and hour would warrant him having circular saw, recip saw, drills/drivers and other basic power tools.



30 bucks an hour and he shows up to work with a tape, pencil and coffee


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## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

JonM said:


> Any job I have been on either union or not, it was just hand tools...Power tools wear out and that should be a contractors responsibility and cost. What next, you want him to supply materials too?...


Well yeah, if they buy materials they don't waste as much.. :thumbup:

It was a nice thought.. 

Carpenters that came with power tools always left with power tools. They have their own, they respect them more. They wear out while working for me, I replace them. If they have no power tools, how they get to be good qualified carpenters? 
Compressor, nail guns, ladders, staging, wall brackets, ect, I always provide & insist they use mine. 
Basic power tools, battery or corded they should have by now. 
That is me and my requirement, each decide their own. I have always found most, good qualified carpenters or tradesman of any kind typically do have their own tools and prefer to use them. They just want them replaced if burnt out working for another, I agree with this as should be. 
I never had carpenter complain or even question this, with exception to a few I hired after th base closing aroud here that were union carpenters. 
They only stayed a few days so wasn't much of a problem. When they found out they had to climb on a step ladder without another person to stabilize it for them, or if they needed some lumber to cut or nail up and had to pick it up themself, and when we didn't use all the osha approved set ups for pump jacks or wall brackets or what ever, they left. :clap:
Especially when breaks weren't taken at set times, omg, unheard of. haha
But then again.. That was my only experience with union workers. The would run to me and I would say go see your foreman, just cause I am here it don't mean anyone by passes them. With me here or not, if their job, they run it. The foreman makes me money, I like his ways.. :thumbup:


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Burby said:


> Well yeah, if they buy materials they don't waste as much.. :thumbup:
> 
> It was a nice thought..


30 bucks an hour around here will get you a kid to go get his coffee....:laughing:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

i just left a lead carpenter position for a commercial company. i was getting payed **** all for a certified carpenter supplying my own tools and blades. wasnt getting reimbursed for blades, i was buying materials with my own money ( no on account purchases.....) 

is it unreasonalble to want a tank of gas payed for when picking up materials when being payed less than industry standard for a journeyman, wanting a tool allowance. this gc barely has any gear of his own, and what he does have isnt worth using, therefore the myself and the crew was all carrying their own power tools... is this unreasonable?


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

All Carpenters that work for me need to have their own circular saw, a drill, levels, squares, and the usual hand tools. Everything else like chop saw's table saws, sanders, and jig saws we supply. We buy the blades for their tools and replace things if one of the tools needs repair (excluding levels).


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Hey Jason, Do they have to keep their hands off your blue and green tools?


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Burby said:


> Carpenters that came with power tools always left with power tools. They have their own, *they respect them more.* They wear out while working for me, I replace them. If they have no power tools, how they get to be good qualified carpenters?
> Compressor, nail guns, ladders, staging, wall brackets, ect, I always provide & insist they use mine.
> Basic power tools, battery or corded they should have by now.
> That is me and my requirement, each decide their own. I have always found most, good qualified carpenters or tradesman of any kind typically do have their own tools and prefer to use them. They just want them replaced if burnt out working for another, I agree with this as should be.


Ain't it the truth!! Sounds like a fair policy to me.:thumbsup:


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Hey Jason, Do they have to keep their hands off your blue and green tools?


Yeah, those don't go in the field at all, unless I want to use them. I just leased a 1200 sf shop in Manchester though, and I will let one or two of the guys use them there. For the most part, they are off limits! I also don't let them touch my stabila levels or my laser level.

I just bought them a nice, new 13" Dewalt table top planner for the job site. In one weeks time they burned up the belt and tore off the skid plate Needless to say they heard from me about that!:furious: They will soon be given my hand me downs instead of new stuff whenever I can manage it.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

I expect my guys to have all their own hand tools. As far as power tools go, I'm flexible. If you don't have your own cordless drill and circular saw, what kind of a carpenter are you?

I provide table saw, chop saws, compressors, nailguns, etc..
I also provide bits and blades and sharpies to the guys as they need.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

Winchester said:


> I expect my guys to have all their own hand tools. As far as power tools go, I'm flexible. If you don't have your own cordless drill and circular saw, what kind of a carpenter are you?
> 
> I provide table saw, chop saws, compressors, nailguns, etc..
> I also provide bits and blades and sharpies to the guys as they need.



sharpies could kinda get expensive in an annoying sorta way, i know myself its better off having the worker supply something like that because i know from my own experience they go missing so easily, or the guys are taking them home for their own use. dealt with that prior to entering carpentry.

as for drill bits, the guy should have his own bits but if a job is going to burn up alot of the same bit. should have twist bits, and spades along with some countersinks for finish work.

what i was stating in my earlier post though, i was using my own table saw, my own chopsaw, compressor, nail guns, etc. and no reimbursement for repairs or blades...


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## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

JonM said:


> 30 bucks an hour around here will get you a kid to go get his coffee....:laughing:


If full time 30/hr will get me with every tool needed to build a house here. Part time or by my self custom work 40 and up.


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## BigLou (Jan 30, 2008)

I expect my leads to have a full complement of tools. In addition to their hourly wage, they get a tool allowance to acquire or replace tools. $25 per month, accumulates, and no cash value. They submit a receipt for a tool, they get reimbursed if there is a balance available in their tool allowance.


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## nadonailer (Nov 15, 2005)

They should have: skilsaw, recipro saw compressor and nailgun. Plus all basic hand tools and cordless drill, levels, etc...


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

woodworkbykirk said:


> sharpies could kinda get expensive in an annoying sorta way, i know myself its better off having the worker supply something like that because i know from my own experience they go missing so easily, or the guys are taking them home for their own use. dealt with that prior to entering carpentry.


I have a couple boxes of them at home.

Give them each a couple sharpies (a fine tip and regular tip) and then they get used to using them and how wonderful they are.

Let them lose them or bring them home, whatever and then forget to bring it to work.

Don't replace it for a few days, or a week or so. If they don't go out and buy their own after this, when you do replace it, they will take better care of the all-important sharpie!


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

In my area $30 an hour for a carpenter is unheard of. I ran a framing crew for $20 an hour and I supplied only my hand tools. $20-$25 is the max rate here. 

From personal experience I would expect a $30 an hour carpenter to have all the tools he needed to complete a job except for the occasional specialty tool.

I guess I am probably just jealous and bitter, it would probably be in your best interest to own the tools yourself and treat the carpenter as a regular employee. Tools are a tax write off anyways and if your carpenter leaves you will still have the tools to support another crew. 

If I supplied my own power tools at $30 an hour I would probably feel very bitter when one broke one your job and I had to come out of pocket to replace it.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Hey Custrel PM me. I know hardware. I am working for Turner now doing finish.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Hey commercial rates are 35.39 in W. WA were you located?


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

JustaFramer said:


> Hey commercial rates are 35.39 in W. WA were you located?


Vancouver, so SW-WA/OR rates.

We're an AGC member, so right now there is no new contract for 2009, so we still pay the 2008 rate.

AGC wants a wage roll back though. It will be interesting to see what happens.


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

JustaFramer said:


> Hey Custrel PM me. I know hardware. I am working for Turner now doing finish.


how do I do that? Haven't done sent a PM/IM/whatever since AOL came out! :w00t:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

custrel said:


> Vancouver, so SW-WA/OR rates.
> 
> We're an AGC member, so right now there is no new contract for 2009, so we still pay the 2008 rate.
> 
> AGC wants a wage roll back though. It will be interesting to see what happens.


Oh yeah I heard that. I worked for Perrot for 10 months up here in Bellevue till June. I know their core Portland guys aren't happy about that.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

custrel said:


> how do I do that? Haven't done sent a PM/IM/whatever since AOL came out! :w00t:


You can PM through the site. It's more or less just a site only email. I was going to send you one but you have it disabled. You will have to go into user cp in the blue bar towards the top.


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## jtpro (May 21, 2009)

:laughing:


IaContractor said:


> You guys are kidding right?!
> 
> I have been a carpenter my entire adult life and a general contractor owning my own business since 1989 in Iowa.
> 
> ...


First off my fine Iowegian friend , this thread started on "11-29-2008" . I doubt he can afford to be paying that now and second look at where you live and where he lives. I used to be your neighbor to the west(hence Iowegian pretty sure ya'll know that's what we jokingly refer to ya'll as:laughing and the cost of living is WAY different.

(Using here as an example)I don't know the "exchange rate" (if you will) now but 10 years ago when I moved here, in Nebraska a 5 bedroom farm house with an acre around it rented for about $200 a month here a 2 bed 1 bath apartment STARTED at $650! Last year I was working in Miami and was renting a POS studio apratment for $750(no oven or stove)! I was making $52,000 SALERY paying about a $1,000 per month living expenses and worked weekends as needed.

$18 around here at this time is a PHENOMINAL wage.Tell your guys they are lucky to be working for a fair employer! A few years ago KEN/DALE( a well known GC in Jax was paying their SUPERS only $18 an hour and had to have ALL their own tools to run the site and the big items Miter and tablesaws,compressor,guns etc. were community property for ALL the leads/journeyman and apprentices to use!!! Now(due to the "plague") since employers can pick and choose JUST to get a $10 apart. maint. job you need to be HVAC certified!!!:sad:


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## rick0913 (Jun 7, 2009)

Guys let's face it A GOOD lead man who makes you money and leaves customers satisfied is worth whatever it takes to keep him from becoming competition. If the man doesn't want to use his own power tools is it really a big deal? I once told a guy I prefered he use my nailguns because I was always replacing plastic parts on his (mine seemed to take more abuse w/out damage). He said he prefered to use his own. I let him w/the understanding that I would only be responsible for normal wear i.e. o-rings drivers and such.
My point is everyone is different and a good lead man should have a little say in what goes on on his jobsite. By the way; of course you supply your crews with all bits and blades!


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## Double616 (May 18, 2010)

Wages will change across the country depending on the cost of living. We all know that. Respectible lead carpenters with a career in carpentry use thier own tools because they "know them". No matter what tools they own.

The business owner should cover the expense of blades and repair with the consideration of an allowance if new tools are necessary.

So whats the big question then. I have read the thread.........What about the truck???

Should the company provide one or the lead carpenter provide it? If provided then should there be a perdium for the fuel?

I use my own truck, I carry both his and my tools, I pick up materials under his account at the lumber yard and I travel to two jobs a day mostly in the same township. All of our work is rather close. Is it reasonable to expect him to cover fuel cost on a 06 diesel?? Diesel is expensive!!


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Double616 said:


> Wages will change across the country depending on the cost of living. We all know that. Respectible lead carpenters with a career in carpentry use thier own tools because they "know them". No matter what tools they own.
> 
> The business owner should cover the expense of blades and repair with the consideration of an allowance if new tools are necessary.
> 
> ...


Ah yeah and what about insurance. I am sure you are voiding your insurance coverage when you are doing commercial business in you vehicle. 
Wear and tear on a vehicle as well as gas should be covered in a mileage scheme.


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## Double616 (May 18, 2010)

I did call the insurance agent and he said there was no problem with using the truck for work. I am still a little worried though because I don't understand the insurance game but for now I will take his word for it.

Yes the insurance is an expense and so is the maintenance. I just spent $500 on brakes, inspection (just safety since the truck is registered 10,000lbs) and turning of the rotors.

So the only questions is now what would be a fair mileage number. I'll have to go back to last years records and see what I spent on the truck and then I will be able to come to a more realistic number.

Thanks!!


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