# 220 where there was none before



## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

I am a flooring contractor in San Diego. I know very little about electricity, how it works or why it can hurt me if I poke it with a stick, I just know that it will. 
I am going to be taking on sanding jobs requiring the LÄGLER 'Hummel' Belt Sanding Machine. The link shows the technical data/ electrical specs. I am looking for advice on how to deal with the 220 requirements in homes without 220 outlets.
My preference is to convince my volt-deficient customer why hiring a local pro (anyone here from San Diego?) to connect a permanent 220 outlet is a brilliant idea. But I need a well-reasoned statement that conveys that message. Any ideas? What would you charge for such a job?
But, because that may not always be an option, I'd like to learn how to safely connect the 4 wires of the extension cord to the fuse panel. I watched a non-electrician get the piss shocked out of him while performing such a maneuver. Apparently it is a regular occurrence for him. I suppose he is content with the knowledge that he doesn't get shocked _every_time. Myself, I can not imagine a future which includes occasional electrocution.
So, is it practical to think a professional electrician, compensated for his time, might teach me how to safely connect the cord to the box? If you received such a call, what would you say? and charge?
Thanks in advance for the help.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

If anyone here tells you how to do this, I will PERSONALLY go to their and then YOUR part of the Country, put up my Dukes and Challenge whoever to an ass-kicking contest!!!

The answer to this Question could, if executed improperly, get you KILLED in an instant!


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> ...KILLED in an instant!


I appreciate your reply, MALCO! I bet the folks you want to thump are probably already burnt to a crisp. I'd save the gas and concentrate on the numbskulls in your area.
It was the idea of 'instant death', which you mentioned, that gave me pause in the first place. Perhaps foolishly, I was hoping to get affirmation on the idea that if an electrician can be taught how it is done, perhaps I could be taught how it is done.
It can be done, can't it?


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

dokuhaku said:


> I appreciate your reply, MALCO! I bet the folks you want to thump are probably already burnt to a crisp. I'd save the gas and concentrate on the numbskulls in your area.
> It was the idea of 'instant death', which you mentioned, that gave me pause in the first place. Perhaps foolishly, I was hoping to get affirmation on the idea that if an electrician can be taught how it is done, perhaps I could be taught how it is done.
> It can be done, can't it?


Simply and Easily without Pause or Reservation, it can be done ..............._.IF _you Truly understand Electricity and the "Fuse Box".

I am, by no means a Professional Electrician, but.......................

I do the sort of thing you speak of almost daily.


Ask someone at a Jobsite. They will show you.


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

*For the record*



MALCO.New.York said:


> If anyone here tells you how to do this...!


Perhaps I should clarify that I do not seek a fast 'n nasty, step-by-step instructional post from some Johnny NineVolt. Anyone who attempts such a thing can expect a quick and certain snap-kick, special delivery from MALCO and I.
Although, I will be many steps behind MALCO. He doesn't need my help.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

dokuhaku said:


> Perhaps I should clarify that I do not seek a fast 'n nasty, step-by-step instructional post from some Johnny NineVolt. Anyone who attempts such a thing can expect a quick and certain snap-kick, special delivery from MALCO and I.
> Although, I will be many steps behind MALCO. He doesn't need my help.


Just because I have a Bruce Lee AVATAR, does not make me he!

But I thank You for the compliment.


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> ...Ask someone at a Jobsite. They will show you...


I suppose I could. It sounds like the sort of path-to-knowledge that ends with me getting grr-GUH-zzzZZAGKK-ed. Maybe thats how this story ends and I need to deal with it. :mellow:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It would be pretty cheap to have someone come in and temp you an outlet just for the project. 
Tell the customer that you need the 220 for you to do your job.

They dont have a dryer or stove that is electric?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It would be pretty cheap to have someone come in and temp you an outlet just for the project.
> Tell the customer that you need the 220 for you to do your job.


COST should not be a part of the equation when a person's life is - potentially - at risk....but in the real world, cost is always a consideration.

It may be possible for the OP to have an EC connect a temp 220 line as needed on a job-by-job basis....
"pretty cheap"? By whose standard?
Think about it..at least 2 trips, including drive time and actual work time...




WarnerConstInc. said:


> They dont have a dryer or stove that is electric?


I do not.

When I had my floors refinished....I am glad I wasn't here when they connected to my FPE main [all circuits were glass fuses]....they actually connected to the LINE side of the CB - their circuit was NOT protected at all.

Had they informed a 220v 30A line was needed, I would have made the request a reality ~ after all, I am a licensed EC in NJ.

But they didn't....and they were lucky no one got baked.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Celtic,

Slightly off topic, but have you ever seen these "you can get 3 phase power out of a single phase service panel" gizmos (control box and a motor)? We looked into one as an option a few years ago to run a big saw in our shop. Any experience with them?


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

I'll tell you how to do it arty:

Have an electrician build you:

A) A small, two space panel with a dryer cord feed and the proper recep and circuit protection for your machine.

B) Purchase a 240V gas generator.

C) Search online for a 240V *generator* powered by a 120V motor. It would be quiet :thumbup: SOMEbody must make one.

D) here's a 3000 watt 120/240 converter for only $120. Your unit says 2900 watts so it might be too much. Search _step up transformer_ for a larger unit.















I have seen guys use alligator clips on the line side of a panel for this type of work. Not the smartest thing I have seen.


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

*Whatever it takes, right?*



220/221 said:


> I'll tell you how to do it arty:...


Thanks for the information! 
"220/221" would be a great slogan for an EC. :clap:

or as a vanity license plate. Probably been done.


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Buy a generator...:thumbsup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Aggie67 said:


> Celtic,
> 
> Slightly off topic, but have you ever seen these "you can get 3 phase power out of a single phase service panel" gizmos (control box and a motor)? We looked into one as an option a few years ago to run a big saw in our shop. Any experience with them?


You can get 'em.
I installed one once...about 20 years ago...I think it was a phase convertor ~ or something :blink:
I could look [aka google] if you really need some info.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

JonM said:


> Buy a generator...:thumbsup:


...that's what I was thinking...or an inverter off the truck's engine.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Celtic said:


> You can get 'em.
> I installed one once...about 20 years ago...I think it was a phase convertor ~ or something :blink:
> I could look [aka google] if you really need some info.


We ended up moving to larger digs that had 3 phase. I do remember that, though, a phase converter. Still have that saw, too.


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

*Good point, well put*



JonM said:


> Buy a generator...:thumbsup:


Thanks JonM. I am starting to think it may be my only option. :whistling


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

A flooring guy with no electrical experience is NOT a good thing. 

You mean you have actually come across homes with only 120v services? I hardly ever see them and some of my area homes date back to the 1600 and 1700's. If there was a wiring system designed it was used around here at one time.

In fact I think I have only see three in my whole career.

For the ultra-rare times you might see a 120v only service, rent a generator.


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

*'Speedy Petey' everybody*



Speedy Petey said:


> A flooring guy with no electrical experience is NOT a good thing...


I must be the first case of a guy who ACTUALLY got by on his good looks. How else to explain 15 years in the trade with absolutely NO electrical experience? 



Speedy Petey said:


> You mean you have actually come across homes with only 120v services?...


I OFTEN see homes with only the following outlets:











Speedy Petey said:


> For the ultra-rare times you might see a 120v only service, rent a generator...


My friends call me Forest Gump due to all the ultra-rare events that seem to define my life. The quantity of homes I encounter without 220 outlets is staggering. It is the cross I bear.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

dokuhaku said:


> I OFTEN see homes with only the following outlets:


That in itself is not indicative of a 120v ONLY service.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Celtic, cheap for me around here would cost me like 125.00 bucks if I planned it right. For hook up and disconnect.

Way easier to just, oh nevermind.


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

*Please*



WarnerConstInc. said:


> Way easier to just, oh nevermind.


Way easier to just what?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I was going to say do it my self. But I didn't


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

*dokuhaku everybody!*



dokuhaku said:


> I must be the first case of a guy who ACTUALLY got by on his good looks. How else to explain 15 years in the trade with absolutely NO electrical experience?
> 
> 
> I OFTEN see homes with only the following outlets:
> ...


You completely misread my reply.

I said "_...with ONLY 120v services_". Read the words individually; *only*, *services*.

Showing me 120v wall receptacles is useless. How does that at all relate to the service entering the house??? 

The fact that you often see homes without 240v *receptacles or circuits* also is meaningless. In areas where nat gas is prolific this is very common.

Like I said, many floor guys have to enter the electrical panel and install breakers for their equipment. THIS is why I said it is not a good thing to not have at least the very basic electrical knowledge. 

If you do not use breakers in homes without 240v receptacles or circuits I wonder how you did get by for 15 years. How do you power your equipment then?


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

*hither and yon*



Celtic said:


> That in itself is not indicative of a 120v ONLY service.


Thank you Celtic. I am not sure why Speedy Petey took it in that direction but your attempts to right my sinking thread are appreciated.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

dokuhaku said:


> Thank you Celtic. I am not sure why Speedy Petey took it in that direction but your attempts to right my sinking thread are appreciated.


There comes a time for EVERY sinking vessel when a Scuttle is only remaining and appropriate decision!!!


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

Above all, thank you for taking the time to consider my post and offer an answer. 


Speedy Petey said:


> Showing me 120v wall receptacles is useless. How does that at all relate to the service entering the house???.


I do not know how it relates to the service entering the house. I am not an electrician. 



Speedy Petey said:


> The fact that you often see homes without 240v *receptacles or circuits* also is meaningless.


Is it? I don't know. I know very little about the electrical workings of the modern home. I believe that the requirements of the big sander are such that the common 2- 3-prong outlets I often see, besides having the wrong shape, cannot supply the appropriate power by which to run it. In the spirit of my post, I was sure that addressing the absence of '240 receptacles' reinforced my plight. 




Speedy Petey said:


> Like I said, many floor guys have to enter the electrical panel and install breakers for their equipment. THIS is why I said it is not a good thing to not have at least the very basic electrical knowledge.


I understand where we got off track. I have always installed prefinished products. My equipment consists of table saw, drill, miter saw, jamb saw, sawzall... items which have the 2- or 3-prong configuration 



Speedy Petey said:


> If you do not use breakers in homes without 240v receptacles or circuits I wonder how you did get by for 15 years. How do you power your equipment then?


I may not have been clear. I will soon be taking on sanding jobs that require 240 receptacles. At that time, I wonder what my best plan will be for supply power to equipment that needs the 240 receptacles, when the home hasn't any.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Ah ha. I see as well. 
I was also not clear. When I referred to flooring guys I was assuming floor re-finishers since you posted an image of that floor eating monster.
I should have been clearer by specifically saying refinishers. Those are the guys who are always looking for that 30A 240v line.

I think we are on the same page now and we are OK. :thumbsup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

dokuhaku said:


> Thank you Celtic. I am not sure why Speedy Petey took it in that direction but your attempts to right my sinking thread are appreciated.



LOL :laughing:


On three...everyone LIFT


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Celtic, cheap for me around here would cost me like 125.00 bucks if I planned it right. For hook up and disconnect.


IF planned right....now I don't KNOW what your area looks like, nor the OP's...but in NJ, it would be probably be at least 2 hour ordeal between traffic, no parking and the complimentary parking ticket :thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Just have to get past the dogs that gaurd the meth labs.


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## Buck25 (Jan 30, 2009)

erp, mispost

Is there a way to delete a post so I only look like a little bit of an idiot?


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## dokuhaku (Sep 15, 2008)

Buck25 said:


> Is there a way to delete a post so I only look like a little bit of an idiot?


Too late :w00t:


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Buck25 said:


> erp, mispost
> 
> Is there a way to delete a post so I only look like a little bit of an idiot?



Way Too LATE!


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