# negotiation tips



## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Ok here's my tip,

Know what you're going to charge to begin with before you ever look at the work. For example, I have a square foot rate for refinishing - that's the price. Doesn't matter what they hit me with, whether its "What's your best price?", sharpen your pencil, my dog has cancer can you help me out whatever doesn't matter that's the price - it's right here on my price sheet and I don't make the rules I just follow them. 

Sounds simple, but you can't hold your ground if you haven't staked out your claim.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

Metro M & L said:


> I was reading the thread on free estimates and was thinking about finleys point about not giving estimate rannges. He was saying you're putting yourself in a poor position by allowing the customer to infer that a 7-12k bathroom will cost 7k.
> 
> So I have a question; is it better to negotiate down (it'll be 50k but if take out xyz it'll be 20k) or negotiate up? Are there customers that one approach will work better than the other?
> 
> ...


Let me flip the script on you a bit and play Devil's advocate. It doesn't really matter if you you give them a range, because the question is like asking how much is a new car going to cost? The answer is irrelevant it's the return question that matters.

What *kind* of car do you want. What if you don't see negotiating as a fight but as working with the client to get them as much of what they want within their budget, following your normal pricing rules? More importantly what happens when you get them to see that way?


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

moorewarner said:


> That's what I am talking about.
> 
> It seems to me that clients want solutions to their ailment, and often the solution is more/different than what they thought.
> 
> ...


I'm being honest when I say I don't know. So much of everything I do revolves around the initial conversation before I ever see a project. But I will say this.

In my initial conversation I need this prospect to talk about what happened and how it made her feel when it happened. Maybe it had an emotional connection because her husband had passed away and he built it for her as a anniversary gift. Or maybe It's a person who just bought the house and is glad it happened so they can cash in the insurance check and build something really cool and innovative.

The initial conversation is everything and tells me a lot about the person and the project. I always qualify but I can't do that until I hear the person talk for a while. How you qualify a customer also depends on the customer. 

So I guess I would answer by talking about HOW the fence blew over, I would get the person explaining in detail about the actual event. From there I would just listen and gently stear the conversation in a direction that allowed me to get to the heart of the matter.

Mike


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

heart of the matter: fence and wall blew over. how much to fix it like before :whistling


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## ccg (May 15, 2011)

*Negotiating*

I am certainly no expert on the matter of negotiating. However, one thing that has always worked for me is: 

Know what you want to settle for, ask form more than what you will settle for and negotiate down to that figure, and give the other party the feeling that they won the negotiation (even though they didn't).


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Restoring previously deleted post.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Understand and use it in your contracting business.

Here is the chart:










Abraham Maslow was an American humanistic psychologist, who created a hierarchy of a healthy human needs. Maslows theory is simple: Humans have levels of needs and they are constantly struggling to satisfy these. The needs start from the lowest, based on primary instincts, following by the safety needs, then 2 levels of higher needs that can be satisfied from interactions with others (Love/Belonging and Esteem), following by the highest level of needs which is Self-actualization.

As a Contractor negotiating with a customer, it is important to be aware of what needs do you actually satisfy, and to do it well.

Maslow's theory was that lower needs have to be satisfied first, before a human can move to a higher level.

I disagree in that as from my many years job experience in marketing and sales I've learned that the need for Love/Belonging and the Esteem needs are present on every other level of needs, except physiological.
IMO especially the Esteem need is present in every aspect of life, and it is the most powerful of all the needs based on choices.

Examples:

- if you can provide for your family with a roof above their heads and the food on the table (safety), it will also increase your self-esteem and confidence. The better you can provide for your family, the higher is your self-esteem.

- if you lose your job or your home, there is a great risk that you might get into depression caused not by lack of the job or the home directly, but by missing self-esteem connected to these

- if your child wants something that he does not realy need, like i.e. a new bike, and you would like to get him the bike, but do not have money, your esteem will suffer. It will bother you that your kid does not get what he desires, but it will also bother your esteem a lot - you will feel low self-esteem as a father.

- if you are loved, your self-esteem increases, same it gets hurt if you should be left or cheated on. If your friend is giving you approval, it will have influence on your self-esteem, same if he is criticizing you constantly, your self-esteem suffers and you start avoiding him. Most often we like people that like us, rarely like people that obviously dislike us - a food for thoughts. Actually there is a lot of self-esteem need going on in any love/friendship relation.

- even when you are on the highest level, and you act fully unselfish like Mother Theresa, you will still gain more self-esteem. You don't feel like sh*** when being on the Self-actualization level, you feel good about yourself and you need this feeling to continue.

I had a case based on Maslow's theory put into work in business as one of final college exams. At that point I already had about 10 years of marketing and sales experience behind me, so I wrote mostly based on my own experiences with customer relations. Studying Maslow helped me to put names on things that I had been doing for a while, and to better understand how I can improve customer relations. But the whole Maslow in business did not come to me from the books only, so this is not just a theoretical svada - been there, done that and went by Maslow's rules also for many years after college - simply because it works and because I believe in the power of satysfying the esteem need in business.

Many contractors go by Maslow's rules in their negotiating strategies even without being aware of it - they know the clue is to make your customer feel good about himself, which is Maslow's theory put into work.

Now I do not claim that using Maslow's rules is the only right way to negotiate, close the deal or increase the order. There are many other ways and if they work for you, stick to those.
But I do claim that Maslow put into work really works and that if you always have on mind what are you actually offering, it will help you to negotiate successfully without compromizing on your prices, and in many cases also increase your sales.


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Restoring previously deleted post.

Examples from this thread on Maslow and satisfying the Belonging needs (friendship), and the Esteem needs (self-esteem, confidence, respect by others):




Calisota said:


> I have an identity that is laid out for clients as Design-Build and extremely detail oriented on the front end of projects that I portray as much as possible during my proposal pitch.





Mike's Plumbing said:


> The fact is I made him feel like a winner. /.../
> 
> I just let him talk and don't say a word, the entire time I'm taking notes picking up on things he is worried about. /.../
> 
> ...


 


JBM said:


> Make a Friend. The rest will come.





Hmrepairs said:


> Show them the dream and how you can make it happen, price will become secondary. /.../
> 
> Or give people a true compliment. Not just "Nice house". Be specific. /.../
> 
> ...





Mike's Plumbing said:


> Sales is not selling, it has nothing to do with it.





Mike's Plumbing said:


> Well, the golden rule of personal communication is people want to feel good right? ask them questions that allows them to talk about them selves. /.../
> 
> Remember, your competition is busy pretending there something there not, trying to be bigger than they actually are. They are busy talking about themselves and totally ignoring the customer right in front of them.
> Now here comes Rod, your the listener. It's a no brainer. The customer is thinking _"This guy is fricking the greatest guy ever"_





moorewarner said:


> It seems to me the real negotiation isn't about price and scope it's about negotiation a better connection with your clients.





Mike's Plumbing said:


> If you were framing a house were they really looking for a framer or were they looking for something else? When a customer called the electrician for a service changeout were they looking for a changeout or were they looking for something more? /.../
> 
> Remodelers....the last thing they do is sell remodeling.
> Mike





moorewarner said:


> They want to feel good, and feeling good isn't dependant on (necessarily) the job you do (initially). It's (all things being equal) dependant on the relationship.
> 
> What does a client value more a new toilet or a sense of being honoured, respected, looked out for? There is really no comparison between the two.





moorewarner said:


> What if you don't see negotiating as a fight but as working with the client to get them as much of what they want within their budget, following your normal pricing rules? More importantly what happens when you get them to see that way?


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Restoring previously deleted post.

In contracting business, what is that "thing" that a contractor is actually selling? The home construction/improvement is what he is doing, but what he is selling, is Esteem - confidence, self-esteem, respect.


Examples:

- a bachelor that can't stand looking at his old fashion kitchen and wants some super modern glossy lab looking cabinets isn't doing it because his kitchen doesn't meet its purpose - he is doing it to feel better about himself

- a person remodeling his house isn't doing it because it is impossible to live in that house - it is to feel better about oneself as somebody who is living in a nice house

- a HO remodeling his pool and getting a lot of decorative elements isn't doing it because the water in the pool will get better - he is doing it out of desire to feel the confidence of having a nice looking pool

- a HO changing laminate floor to hardwood isn't looking for better walking experience - it is about the confidence and higher self-esteem comming from having hardwood floors and not "just laminate that looks like"

- a HO upgrading his windows while there is nothing wrong with the old ones, except from they are old, doesn't need new windows - he needs the confidence and the self-esteem connected to having new windows

- a single that decides to remodel his home while still suffering from the break, isn't doing it because home remodeling is the most important thing on his mind right now and an immediate need - he/she is doing it to compensate for lost self-esteem connected to being loved with self-esteem that will come from having new remodeled home

- a lady that wants to remodel her bathroom, but doesn't quite know what she wants, and btw she apologizes for the mess in her living room (which you didn't even notice) is a real "golden eg", because what she really wants is to change something in her life, she needs it all from the Esteem shelve and if you listen to her carefully and present her for an esteem increasing dream in a right way, you might end up remodeling the whole unit

- extreme example: Nicholas Cage and many other "stars" and their downtrips to hell because they couldn't apart with all the properties and items that were directly connected to maintain their self-esteem. I say no more, but if you were working on their properties, there wouldn't be negotiations - the only thing that would matter would be getting them the best and how do you treat them, making sure you don't step over their self-esteem with an inch. Some will call it: greed, but greed is also struggling for high self-esteem, achieved through money and manifested through money.


So whatever your contracting services are, if they are not of emergency type (safety), it comes down to selling Esteem. When the contact with a customer is established and there is time for negotiating, remembering what you are really selling, and also remembering which of your own needs you are satisfying, will help you develop the right attitude toward the customer and enjoy the benefits.


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Restoring previously deleted post.

Let's take it from the moment you are about to negotiate your prices with a potencial customer. The initial contact is there and your goal now is getting the job to your prices and maybe even increase the order and your profit.

At that point you have to know the following:

- You are going to sell Esteem

- You are satysfying your own Safety need (job and food on the table). This is not your show and your goal is not to impress and override the customer, but to satisfy his needs. If you at this point are focused on your own esteem needs, you will most likely lose that customer.


(When there is an emergency situation - a pipe leaking like hell, a flood, a roof blown away - the negotiating part shrimps or isn't present. The customer is in a very vulnerable situation and he has neither time or nerves to run around comparing prices, so you can say that you are in charge of pricing here. But watch yourself: if you get temptated to take advantage of his situation and overprice your services, it will hurt your business. When the problem is fixed and the safety is re-established, he will have the need to tell EVERYBODY about the horror and who fixed it and how much did he charge. With or without other people's suggestions on your high price, he may start to compare it to others and once he figures out you screw him on price, he will give you a lot of bad WOMM. And we all know that a bad WOMM is twice as powerful as a good WOMM. At the same time if you fix the problem fast, well and do not overprice it, you might get much more work from this customer - always look at a customer as a door opening but not necessary closing after one job is finished).


Here are some "Maslow put into work" ideas. They have been working well for me visiting stores and dealing with owners, and I hope they will work in your contracting business as well:


- if the job is bigger, try to not give any price over the phone, say you would like to take a closer look at customer's improving needs together with him, and try to get an appointment at his place.

- Be on time, otherwise you show lack of respect. If you are running late, make a call and explain you will be late and when you will be there. By calling and explaining you are scoring before you show up, because again you show respect. Make sure you do not say you will be late because you are still working on someone elses project - that will make the customer feel less important, bad score. If you are stressed, take a deep breath and try do not let the stress to shine through in your voice. Remember, your customer does not care about your stress or any other of your issues so do not expect him to understand. At the same time do not show up too early - if you force people to run out of the shower or disturb them eating dinner, you got a pissed customer to deal with even before you start and your score goes down. People expect you to be there when agreed and to respect their daily schedule.

- Free estimates: most people don't know the full meaning of free estimate. Many think of free estimate as some brief numbers for materials and labor. Do not turn down a customer that is asking for free estimate, because he might be one of those. If they ask for detailed specification of costs, you may for example call it project designed estimate - it will sound more reasonable to charge for something like that, and will make the customer feel important by receiving an estimate designed especially for his project.

- When you are at the customer's place, remember it is his place. It is not just a home - it's his home and a very special place for him. As a contractor you will be shown to private areas of his home that he does not normally show to people, like his bedroom or master bath. Respect it and never ever throw any bad comment about his home, neither use the word "typical", like i.e. "Yeah, these are typical cabinets from the 80's" - for your customer nothing about his home is typical, it is his special place to which he has an emotional connection, nobody wants to be described by others as "typical".

- Giving a compliment (the floors, garden, the dog, etc.) is good as long as you really mean it and do not overdo. If you overdo, people will sense it and your honest respect may become questionable in their eyes.

- When you see the project and get the price question, do not throw out any numbers. Instead ask more detailed questions like i.e.: Would you like granite countertops here? Tell the customer about benefits of having granite tops, as well as the hassle of keeping these clean, but mention also good cleaning products on the market that make it easy. Even if you were already told over the phone they want granite, ask again - because they will most likely tell you not only about the countertops, but also mention something else, to which you can suggest some solution increasing your job volume. Just listen and make notes. Like Mike said, pick up their concerns, and also desires. High score on the esteem: you show deeper interest for their project, you cooperate with the customer on finding solutions, and you let them talk. They have been waiting for you and thinking/talking about their project, they want to talk about it, so as @*Hmrepairs *said: Just ask, then SHUT UP and LISTEN


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Restoring previously deleted post.

- Now when got as much information as possible and established customer's trust in your sincere interest in his project and your desire to bring him a lot of esteem, it is time to present the customer for various solutions based on his needs and preferences (which might change very fast once shown something better). Here it is important to start from the best as far as materials and solutions. Do not worry about customer's finances, do not worry that you are wasting your time by presenting something he can't afford, because how would you know? It is a common failure for sales people that they often tend to worry for customer's pocket, or they judge customer's finances by the car, the clothes etc. Nothing more wrong than that, a customer may surprise your - maybe they got some money and decided to spend it on remodeling, maybe their esteem need get satisfied by a beautiful kitchen and not by a fancy car, you never know. Always start from high shelve and watch the reaction. A little body language: if a customer is scratching his head or wrinking his face, means he does not like the price, but can afford it, his esteem need is thinking. If he is looking around, avoiding looking at you and says nothing, he probably can not afford it and his esteem need is threatened - then you move to a lower price shelve (the next one, not to the bottom) and the art is doing it in a way that won't make the customer feeling bad about himself. You can start with i.e. something like: "There is some other very nice, good quality solution that costs less, but will make your kitchen great. How about if we...?" (notice all the positive words used in one line, plus using the word "we" - from this moment you are working together on his project). Remember you are selling esteem, so make sure you dont blow it by making the customer not feeling great about himself.


- Found a great example on visualization of a positive potential experience, based on Maslow. It is about how you present for a customer what he will be getting, how do you wake up customer's positive feeling about himself by getting something great. You can see it for yourself how it will look when ready, right? The goal is making your customer to imagine it as well. It is the "Show them the dream..."  

The example is a research done in 82 when introducing cabel TV.
_One group of homeowners was presented with the following advertising copy: *“CATV will provide a broader entertainment and informational service to its subscribers. Used properly, a person can plan in advance to enjoy events offered. Instead of spending money on the babysitter and gas and putting up with the hassles of going out, more time can be spent at home with family, alone, or with friends.”*_

_The second group was presenting with a different version of ad copy: *“Take a moment and image how CATV will provide you with a broader entertainment and informational service. When you use it properly, you will be able to plan in advance which of the events offered you wish to enjoy. Take a moment and think of how, instead of spending money on the babysitter and gas, and then having to put up with the hassles of going out, you will be able to spend your time at home, with your family, alone, or with your friends.”*_

_The homeowners who received the first appeal subscribed at a rate of 20 percent—about average for the people in the neighborhood who hadn’t received any appeal at all. _

_The homeowners who received the second appeal, however, subscribed at a rate of 47 percent—over twice that of the rest. The people who imagined themselves enjoying the benefits of cable TV could visualize the benefits, and their desires were stirred by the activity._

Source: http://www.insideblackbox.com/?p=1111


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Restoring previously deleted post.

- be prepared, have some nice prospects on you with jobs you have done. Sometimes it can be hard for people to decide all the details, finish and everything at once. But when they see something beautiful you have done, they may very much just say: "I want it just like this one" - time saved, money earned. Even if you don't seal the deal that day, I would recommend to leave these of the photos that you see they like. The customer may take a roundtrip with other contractors, he may even get better price offers, but your photos are lying there, before his eyes, and he knows you can give him that esteem for sure, so he may very much come back to you because of the promise of esteem he can see through your photos - happened to me many times. Still happens, now I give free test classes on Sundays from time to time, so people can imagine themselves getting more of it (...so here you are, sitting in the comfort of your home and learning language with your exclusively private teacher... it is expensive like hell, but look what you get, and you deserve your own private teacher... imagine THAT) yup, I am not selling my skills during these test classes - I am selling esteem, the confidence and self-esteem of being somebody that has his own private teacher. One hour given as free sample -100 hours sold. Worth it? Very much so 

- During the negotiating it is also good to be aware of your own body language. If you are tensed or deffensive, it shows, you cross your arms or stand there with your hands in your pockets, or there is an impatient tone in your voice - people pick up these negative signals instinctively. They might even not know it, what was that thing that made them feel uncomfortable about you. Try to not think of your own esteem needs during the negotiating. If they say something you might find a kind of insulting, let it pass. Relax, laid back, don't rush them up, imagine the situation as the most pleasant right now, and the person in front of you as a potential contributor to the food on your table - what is to not like about it? You will get your price and get the customer or you won't, but you have made the customer feel good about themselves and they will remember you as a great guy.

- Do not get into negotiating your labor prices. Negotiate labor volume or materials used. You are professional, selling high quality self-esteem, not a flea market seller.

- If after all the above the meeting gets to a dead point - the customer hasn't still made up his mind, leave him with the prospects of your work for about one hour, no more. Pick them up after one hour. That will give the customer time needed to confront his esteem needs by himself, or to talk it through if it is a couple. Give them just enough time to absorbe the figures and to visualize how much great confidence they will get for it. And in many cases enough time for the woman to explain the man that yes, that is what she wants and that she deserves the esteem dream that was just presented for them.
I've tested it and figured out that one hour is the optimal time for "same day decision". If they are still not sure or turn you down, leave some of the best prospects and make sure to mention it was a pleasure to meet them. They might be back 

Hope you will find some of it helpful. The good part about Maslow is that you do not have to lie or use cheap tricks, you can be yourself and honest and still make people feel great about themselves. There is no one winner of the negotiating - both parts win something.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Holy crap, it's notthis complicated and you don't need to carry a chart in your pocket.

Every person has practiced negotiations since you cried in your baby crib to be picket up by tired parents. For most of us that's 40 plus years of practice. Truth is, we are who we are at this point. Be kind, honest, and sincere......the rest takes care of itself.


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

You are right, Mike, deleted the whole boring crap.

Btw They say it is getting better, +.4 in construction in April, compared to March, according to an article at Comcast yesturday.


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## Calisota (Apr 15, 2011)

Ewa said:


> You are right, Mike, deleted the whole boring crap.
> 
> Btw They say it is getting better, +.4 in construction in April, compared to March, according to an article at Comcast yesturday.


No offense, but that is complete BS. I found your effort outstanding. What a complete waste. Simple for 1 man does not indicate simple for all. You should re-consider the value of what you have to offer. I'm glad I read it before you trashed it.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Negotiating is what I have mastered above all things and it's something I look forward to every day. The interaction with customers is what's it's all about.
> 
> As far as tricks etc, I will give you a perfect example on a job that I closed this morning. The initial contact started on Friday with a phone call.
> 
> ...


Mike, I like you.... But my friend, reading all this... There should be a sequel made to "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and they should name it "Two Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" :laughing: 

I don't know who lost their mind here...you, by dumping all that on the guy... or him not hanging up the phone on you :no:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Ewa said:


> You are right, Mike, deleted the whole boring crap.
> 
> Btw They say it is getting better, +.4 in construction in April, compared to March, according to an article at Comcast yesturday.


That's just insane, why the hell would you delete something you wrote just because I said it wasn't that complicated? If you believe in something than stick to your guns. This is a forum and it's full of opinions, never delete a post because somebody else makes a comment. Especially when the comment wasn't directed at you personally. 

I don't feel it is complicated and Maslow was also trying to deal with problamatic patients with serious mental issues. Were just contractors trying to run a business.

Google the phrase "maslows basement" then do some homework on he guy.

As a contractor the best thing we can do is be ourself, in truth, that was the whole point of Maslow and why he created that chart. One of Maslows largest points was the battle to actually be ourself, that was his whole premise. An example would be a contractor pretending to be a multibillon dollar company when they are really only a one man shop. Understanding Maslow and his chart we realize quickly that the real problem is the contractor and his fear of being small. Why is that? Well, according to Maslow the contractor that lies about the size of the company by displaying false impressions has deep rooted issues called "self". Be yourself IS the whole point of Maslow.

I'm more upset that you erased your post however, what does Maslow say about that? 

As far as comments made to me about my opinion. Well, It's a forum an I'm just being honest. I suppose I could lie and just give kudos but the fact is this is how I see it. Whould you respect me more of i lied? I might be wrong and I might be right but at least with me you get my honest opinion. I wont erase my post because somebody else made a comment, I won't do it because I believe in what I write. 

This is a forum not a child day care center, if anyone can't handle opposing opinions (the very basis of quality conversation) then go pound sand or buck up and write your own solutions if you have any.

Ewa, I have a lot of respect for you when you believe in what you write. Take Maslows advice and be yourself, that means keeping what you wrote and fighting for it tooth and nail.

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

greg24k said:


> Mike, I like you.... But my friend, reading all this... There should be a sequel made to "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and they should name it "Two Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" :laughing:
> 
> I don't know who lost their mind here...you, by dumping all that on the guy... or him not hanging up the phone on you :no:


The customer is a funny and cool guy. I felt it coming and went for it. If a customer calls me and wants to be serious then I will play Mr Serious. I don't know, I just roll with it when It comes.

The one thing I can say is I being myself and customers like that also. When a customer can talk to somebody they know is just being real than it about as perfect as you could ask for, it's an ideal situation.

As far as that customer, we are great friends now, in fact, it gets much much better business wise.

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I find it funny this thread is on negotiating......look what happened.:laughing:


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## Rod B. (Apr 13, 2011)

Ewa said:


> You are right, Mike, deleted the whole boring crap.


Then re-post it, please. I just had time for a quick read, wanted to go back and take my time with what you said, maybe print it out for future reference; trying to reorganize my game plan a bit, and some of the points you made rang very true with me. Please re-post.


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## Repairman615 (Jan 10, 2011)

*Millions to the person taking unwanted goods, making them have value.*

Ewa,

l was impressed with your posts. I had a chance to skim over it then needed to get back to the bath reno... 

If you came up with that from your head I know it would be hard to carbon copy, however, I was very impressed with your effort. I was surprised sad to see that your posts were deleted and discarded as "crap".

...I was "brightening" a home for a realtor. He asked if I wanted any of the "crap" the tennants left in the garage. At the time I was vending at the Nashville Flea Mkt. with stuff had collected / made. I called it Junk. Any rate I did not need any more stuff but there were two figurines that appealed to me. Fourht Sat came around and 25 mins after I set these out at the Flea Mkt. A man came by and b-lined for them. He carresed them as he held them and he almost was shakey. When he asked how much I told him $250. 
He said "For the Pair?". 
I said " Each."
We aggreed on 450.

Originally I was going to sell these for $30/pr.

I wish I would have kept these and found out before hand they were Meisson and worth about 2-3k for the pair.

One mans junk...

Jeff


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Sorry Guys, I will write it again during the weekend, no problem.

Just had to think it through once again and do some research, to make sure that I am not trying to push through stuff that works in Europe, while here it might be a big time BS.

No, the individual's hierarchy of needs is pretty similar and grounded in the genuine human nature.

Mike, Maslow's conclusion on being true to yourself means that trying to meet higher needs while the lower are not satisfied yet, may and often does create an inner conflict - the higher needs can not compensate for the lower if these are being neglected. 
Like if somebody that has just lost his job and his income, means his safety need is in a danger zone, tries to compensate for it by spending his savings on home upgrades, the confidence won't last cuz disturbed by still missing safety.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I understand what your driving at but remember that Maslow had a goal that differs from a contractor. We advertise, spread word of mouth and obtain prospects. I prefer to have a bulk of my business come from referrals because it's just a better customer. From a contractor standpoint we can't get too concerned over Maslow in my opinion. Once I qualify I have to come up with a number for the job and that number is non negotiable. The only thing left in my opinion comes down to likability. If a customer likes me and I have a great reputation in the community they are more apt to choose me as a contractor once I qualified them........and of course referrals are easiest to qualify.

For me negotiating is the easiest part. You once said my marketing is classified as "accidential marketing" but nothing could be further from the truth. Everything I do is calculated to a T and when it comes time for a customer to make a decision all the hard work I do to build relationships and take part in the community pays off big time.

Maslow is a hot topic at psycho wards, I know because my wife is an accountant at the number one psych hospital in the country for there specialty. At the company functions Maslow is often brought up in conversations and most psychotherapists totally dismiss his theory's. Actually, if you do some research on him you will discover his theories have a lot of holes.

Regardless, Maslow does bring up some interesting and valid points. But again, as a contractor, relating and decifering Maslow is a little out of place compared to professional psychotherapist and there patients.

Over the years I've had the pleasure of meeting some unbelievable salesman and all of the top salesman I have met are experts at being genuine human beings who are great at making people feel good. 

My opinion anyhow.

Mike


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Had an interesting one today. Guy is late for estimate appointed by him by 40 minutes(meanwhile I am down half a pack of smokes in disgust,because i have other place to be in).

Finally rolls in in his SUV with his mother. From looks of it,in his 20s(officially admitted to be 28 when i was leaving).
Seems like one of those rich kids who got 100k job and now landed himself 300k house with lots of problems.

Conversation:

Hero: Hi,I am Gabe,owner of G&R Apex,here to give you estimate on your house
Villain: Oh hi Gabe,my wife told me about you,lets take a look at the house,my name is Jakub

We started from roof and after I saw it, I said to myself "no way this is less than 10k job by itself"

Hero:
-Well seems like shingles been installed long ago,see how they curl up? I also took a look at your attic seems like your plywood is rotten to **** and damage is over 60% so we will need a permit for that one

Villain: Well I was thinking maybe you can just patch stuff up and drop the shingles without the permit
Hero: Well honestly Jakub, I am registered company with liabilities and I am not going to eff around with city's laws
Villain: Ah oh,well lets take a look inside.

After that villain goes on a rant explaining to me what he wants done and how he is short on money (driving 80k SUV and having 250k house,in my mind he must want his Uncle Frank's amateur baseball team's co-player's cousin to do the job). 
After he shows me everything,he goes to re-assure me that he will measure area of flooring he wants my company to do and area of painting on ceilings.

On the way out,I promise to get back to him with estimate(in my mind around 22-25k by then: hardwood floors,roof,carpet,paining,taking out not load bearing wall) and stresses that I look young.
I am kinda offended so I say:
-Well I guess its a compliment and roll out.

He promised to get back to me asap with area and building plan so I can get everything calculated.

Only re-assurance I got is that he said I had most impressive references/"brag book pictures" available,so I assumed he might finally "put on the table(put cash/signature) down" as my flooring labourer Marco says.


Still though...does it look like I did smth wrong?
Wondering if yes, what did I do wrong?


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Over the years I've had the pleasure of meeting some unbelievable salesman and all of the top salesman I have met are experts at being genuine human beings who are *great at making people feel good*.


And that proves Maslow's point exactly - the need that is right after physiological needs like food, sleep and breathing, and the safety needs like a roof above you head and your health - the very next one is the need for friendship/belonging/making buddies with others (which meeting you are scoring at  ) and the esteem - the need for feeling good about oneself - vide: self-esteem, confidence, respect by others. Notice: these 2 levels of needs get satisfied by other people or THINGS. The highest level: self-actualization, comes from within you and does not depend on other people's approval.

Now bring it to contractors or anybody offering services or products that are not an immediate need - where are you on this chart, which of the needs do you satisfy? A new kitchen has nothing with safety to do, and even less with the physiological instincts. Why do people chose to remodel, to improve and make their homes more pretty, more comfortable?
Why do they most of the times end up buying more expensive cars, properties etc. than the price they had on mind before they started to look at these "candies"? 
You do not need a car to many hundred thousands dollars to bring you from A to B. Same you do not need a house with 4 baths and 5 bedrooms if you do not have a big family, so why do they purchase big, expensive houses? You can be in only one room at the time anyway. It is the "I WANT IT" need. Why? 
Because it makes them feel good about themself and that is a real need, and the strongest one based on choices.

How do contractors can benefit from being aware of these strong esteem needs?
Same way as you do, by satisfy these 



(BTW Maslow has been mostly criticized for setting sex as one of the primary needs, as it is proven people can live without ergo "he must have been wrong". But he didn't mean sex as a need for pleasure - he was thinking of a primary procreation instinct; the need for intimacy is according to him first on the love/belonging level, which difference seems to be overlooked by many).


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I understand. For me at least, it's in my nature and I don't and never needed a chart to figure this out. That's my only point Ewa. I like who I am and that makes me confident in myself and without any hidden agenda I can approach any customer with and feel good doing it.

Keep in mind that to place a chart on people and accept it as the standard defacto solution is seriously obtuse. Every single person that I have met in my entire life has been 100% different than the next. Again, for me personally I don't need a chart to tell me anything because I know who I am and I'm confident that the human race works best when pure honesty is at the table. It's gotten me far in life so I continue to be me, nothing more nothing less.

But like I said earlier, some of what Maslow says makes sense but he was very wrong on many things.

Mike


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Nobody said that satisfying the esteem need means lying to people - rather the opposite, it is confronting people with their own desires.

When a person calls you to ask for a plumbing job on his bathroom and you end up remodeling the whole room to much higher price by getting him "at ease" as you described, would you consider yourself as dishonest? 


A chart or a line, it does not matter, names are just agreed symbols - Maslow's chart is actually very simple and easy to understand, it is not a fancy psychological svada.
People are different in many ways, that is true, but at the same time they are very alike in their needs, the difference is mostly in manifesting and performance of these.


Here is a good one:

_Maslow's theory remains a classic because rather than looking at psychology as strictly the study of the mentally ill, his theory was based upon healthy persons. And being one of the first humanistic ones, it has its share of flaws._

Quote source: http://www.nwlink.com/~Donclark/leader/leadhb.html


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> But like I said earlier, some of what Maslow says makes sense but he was very wrong on many things.


I agree, he was wrong on generalization and not breaking up the levels to sub-levels and parallel levels. If the chart was made by our times' behavioral psychologists, it would have 1500 levels and a manual following


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Ewa, post the Maslow chart you had. I'll take that and give you some examples of how things change and examples that were given to me by psychologist that works with my wife and why Maslow missed the mark. This has become an interesting conversation.

Mike


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## Calisota (Apr 15, 2011)

A Flow chart may be necessary. I like this thread.

I think we're lumping too many categories into one bag. All sales are not equal. Let's consider all the missing information from the direction of this discussion.

Referrals vs Cold Calls

Repairs vs Improvements 

Solo Shot vs Competitive Bid

Affordability vs Financed Investment
For example: Less than 25k vs Greater than 75K 

Information gathering is crucial. All the personal skills mentioned previously, aid in the speed and efficiency required to give your best when required. Negotiation is not a necessity in many contractor's approach to soliciting sales, `The number is the number '. But that does not address why the prospect shouldn't just call someone else. Some aspect of "salesmanship" will be in play for running a successful company. A combination of circumstances; referral/repair/solo shot/ and affordability, can all be sold with the least amount of "salesmanship". They can also be lost by taking it for granted.

Negotiation isn't just about the price. It's about the prospect choosing you or your company. 

Do I believe that Mike's methodology, and implication of simplicity, translates to sales of full home remodels where the investment is significant? No. Is the skill set he refers to a crucial and valuable personal asset in closing a deal? Yes.

The level of psychology being referred to is only relevant to the given circumstances of a particular sale. "Knowing" people. Reading people. Listening and steering the conversation to gain information, are real skill sets. Without information, you are handicapped. I think a remedial learning of Maslow's chart or Marston's DISC assessment is important to learning how to read clients, steer conversation, and tailor your proposal. There are sales and marketing "gurus" that have Buyer classifications as well that may be more understandable for some. "Being yourself" precludes learning about others. Getting comfortable with who you are is part of your toolbox, but won't close a deal by itself. I strengthen Mike's comments by suggesting it should be the foundation of all necessary skill sets. 

So a real question is; in what situation does one feel the need to be "competitive" ? There is no skill required to name your price and leave. I'm choosing to interpret this thread as negotiating for a client's business amongst my competitors. Of which, price may need to be a chess piece.

Part of the "Tips or Tricks" may be more postings of current experiences and how they played out.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Sure, here is an example from this week.

I bid on a basement bathroom again where the floor needed to be cut etc. He also added a kitchen in he basement and laundry facilities. 

When it was all said and done I gave him a number and he was in shock as to how much the total was. Well, first off it started out to be a small 3,500 project but when I was there he kept adding and adding and adding more and more plumbing.

Now, I have done work for him for a number of years so we have a good relationship. A couple days go by and I call him.

Turns out he called two other companies to get a bid after I pried it out of him. He then told me I was just two dam high priced.

OK, What would you do? All of us here have run into this so it's nothing new but I ended up with the job and my price didn't change. I start on Tuesday.

Before I answer lets think his through. What would you guys be thinking in your head when the long time customer said you were just too high priced?

Like I said I did get the job and I never ever change my price for anybody. I don't want to say the answer yet because how I got it was not what you think, and it wasn't because of my sales ability. It's also not because I'm Superman.

So how would you guys handle this? Would you simply say "OK, good luck wig your project" and move on? I ALMOST did that out of frustration. Good hing I didn't because his is a real good money maker.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Oh, I should mention something very critical here. Of all the past customers in my data file he is the most perfectionist of any customer I have ever done business with. The reason why he likes me so much is because he knows I will leave the job dead perfect and not leave a single crumb behind, no sign that I was even there. So I had this knowledge in the back of my head while talking to him on the phone.

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Ewa, use the Maslow chart and tell me What happens next.


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Here is the chart, before later additions:










Since this is a negotiation tips thread, I am thinking mostly of the "seal the deal" situations, when the door is open and it is time for negotiations. And by negotiating I do not mean discussing your prices back and forth, but rather how to get the job (the customer relation) without compromizing on your prices, and how to increase the order while keeping the customer happy and cooperating with the customer rather than pushing like a "used cars seller" 

I do believe Mike, that your "People buy from those they know, like and trust" mantra works, if you have been in business for many years, and the demographics are mostly local people that have also been there for generations, and everybody knows that Mike is the plumber, Joe is the carpenter and Tom is the butcher and it has been like this as far as they can remember. But I have hard time to imagine how that should work in millions of people cities where most of these people come from somewhere else (i.e. Florida).


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Mr 204, when people go on and on about how they cant afford something, I give them a price that would shake Donald Trump. People who really cant afford it have that deer in the head light look and often times only hint at being broke. I am nice to them


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Ewa said:


> I do believe Mike, that your "People buy from those they know, like and trust" mantra works, if you have been in business for many years, and the demographics are mostly local people that have also been there for generations, and everybody knows that Mike is the plumber, Joe is the carpenter and Tom is the butcher and it has been like this as far as they can remember. But I have hard to imagine how that should work in millions of people cities where most of these people come from somewhere else (i.e. Florida).


What works is not kissing their rear ends but emanating such confidence that you relay to the customer that you dont really need their work, but you would like it. If you dont get it, thats ok, you have another 100 appointments to goto. You cant be straight armed because you dont need their work, you will give the best darn job you can, because you didnt get negotiated down to nothingness.

Most of the time people need to slow down on appointments, move slower, talk slower, look people in the eye. The alpha male actually does these, be the alpha of your trade, own your market, get $$


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

The "know, like, and trust" does not take time, that's wrong. But before I explain why lets work through the customer issue according to Maslow hey?

You see, the reality is a Maslow chart only works to understand something AFTER the story is all complete, not during Ewa, that's been my point all along. When you on the phone and a long time customer said I was too high priced and he got oter bids Maslow doesn't exist. After i land the job and get paid we can sit down and talk about how Maslow and his chart fit into the picture but during the phone call I need to make a decision on what to do.

Seriously Ewa, how does Maslow help me finish the deal, get the job, overcome high price, etc etc. Maslow doesn't belong in a negotiation thread.

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Oh, and Ewa, I've been in my new business now since December and really didn't get started until late Feb early March in my new location where I don't know anybody and hoave zero advertising. I'm pretty busy but not quite where I want to be. "Know, like, and trust" can happen immediately if you understand word of mouth and how to foster it.

I'm writing a free book on a blog here on the forum outlining to the exact T my entire marketing strategy. You will eventually understand and will have a whole new appreciation about word of mouth and how to spread it.

I just get too many PM's and phone calls talking about this subject so I decided to just write about it. But it is immediate, been doing this for a long time and learned from the best in he business.

Mike


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> When you on the phone and a long time customer said I was too high priced and he got oter bids Maslow doesn't exist.


He does exist then, very much so.
Maslow is knowing, understanding and satisfying the esteem need before, during and after.

The customer has to know how much of the esteem he gets for that price, and he can even get more esteem if he adds this and that, his satisfaction will be great because based upon confidence and self-esteem need that is satisfied.
A price by itself is a number, which might seem low or high, it is relative and depending of how much esteem is in the package to that price, and if the customer knows about it.


I will write the whole ballade again today, so we have gripable points of Maslow put to work to discuss. 

Mike, could you please do an experiment? Please take a look at TV commercials (not the pharma, cuz they run on the safety need), think of very known slogans that stick to products and services you use yourself, and see if you don't find Maslow in all of them? I do.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Your not answering the question Ewa, pretend you are me on the phone (and don't be a smart a$$, lol) what would you say and then apply it to Maslow for direction. Do this and I will tell you what happened. When your on he phone talking to a real person you have to act NOW not later. What would you say?

Mike


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## Ewa (May 18, 2011)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> "Know, like, and trust" can happen immediately if you understand word of mouth and how to foster it.


WOM is Maslow too. In your case it is marketing yourself as the one that is a friend, someone you like and that LIKES YOU (love/belonging/friendship), and whom you can trust - not on keeping secrets, but on pleasing you and satisfying your confidence need.

Looking very much forward to reading your book 

I am certaine I can learn a lot from it, at the same time getting stronger and stronger feeling that we are talking about the same, and the difference is mostly semantic, how do we name things.

In fact I do believe that Maslow with his simple humanistic rules is closer to you than many other "analyze to death" theories.


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