# Hot Water Boiler Problems



## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

I have a customer with a weekend house with chronic boiler issues. The boiler is a 7 year old oil fired Burnham (model#LEDV2-TBI)steel boiler with a Carlin 60200-02 Interrupted Ignition oil primary. It has a taco circulator controlled by 3 zone valves. Two valves are for heating zones and one valve for the indirect water heater.
The boiler keeps tripping off and has to be manually reset. Last year it tripped off, the pipes froze and caused $65K in damage to the house(which is why I'm here now.).
Now there is an alarm with a low temp sensor and a Water Cop to shut off the water in case of a leak so future damage can be reduced or eliminated.
I'm working there during the week and the boiler functions fine. with the thermostat set at 68 degrees. There are no malfunctions.
Last week with the holiday, I didn't come up and the temperature was set at 55 degrees. When I got here Monday the temps were at 47 degrees and the boiler had once again tripped. It went back on with a push of the reset button, but this isn't a solution.
This happened numerous times last year and the service company "changed the nozzle and adjusted the boiler settings". Again and again. I don't think they have a clue.
Any insight as to the problem?
Thanks.
Ron
Added: Beckett gun AF11 150


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Is their only one boiler operator in your town?If you touch the system then you own it,that's a helluva liability,and in most areas it is illegal unless you have a operators license,like mine.


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## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

threaderman said:


> Is their only one boiler operator in your town?If you touch the system then you own it,that's a helluva liability,and in most areas it is illegal unless you have a operators license,like mine.


I'm confused by the response. I have no experience with boilers, so I have no intention of attempting a repair. But I would like to be able to understand the trouble shooting process.
There are other oil companies in the area, but changing operators does not mean the issue will be diagnosed properly. There are currently 3 stickers from 3 different companies on this 7 year old boiler. The house has had three owners in that time frame. The current owner has owned it for two years and has this issue for the whole time. According to the neighbor, the previous owner had the same problem(different oil company)but since they lived there full time, the issue was only a minor inconvience.

Ron


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

If you have to press the reset button on the burner, the problem is likely due to ignition. You need to check to see if you are getting the correct spark, and check to make sure that the oil delivery is good. Most likely, something must be amiss in one of those areas. It is impossible to say on-line what the problem is, but that is what one should check. Obviously, as Joe said, once you start working on the thing, you are going to be liable, so I wouldn't touch anything except the reset button. But you already know this. I hope this helps


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## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

I realize online troubleshooting is optomistic at best. I figured listing the components might elicit a response as to any experience the pro's had with them. The last service guy(10/28) had an issue with the Carlin Primary. Said he didn't like them because they were not as reliable as say the Honeywell units. The guy who did the seasonal tuneup in July said the Beckett AF11 150 burner was not one of Becketts' better guns.
I guess I'm grateful the thing even works at all!
We'll see what the service guy today finds.
Ron


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Have you ever checked the quality of the fuel oil it self?
Years ago a friend had set up service contracts and realized that when people bought their oil from a certain company his phone rang off the hook with problem calls. He started taking samples from every service call and they all had water in them.


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## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> Have you ever checked the quality of the fuel oil it self?
> Years ago a friend had set up service contracts and realized that when people bought their oil from a certain company his phone rang off the hook with problem calls. He started taking samples from every service call and they all had water in them.


Tim, two other houses in the area(big open field in upstate,NY) have the same oil delivery company and have no issues.
Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Ron


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## nhmaster3015 (Sep 6, 2008)

It's either an ignition problem (transformer, electrodes)
a control issue (primary or cad cell)
Oil pump (coupling, pump, nozzle, filter, strainer, oil line and the oil itself)
Or a motor problem (motor, wiring, mechanical ) Or it could be an electrical problem (switches, breakers) Or a combination of any or all of the above including improper set-up or a draft and chimney problem. That's why we go to school and learn the trade. You can't troubleshoot the problem because you don't have the background and training. I find it very hard to believe that there are no qualified service tech's in the area. multiple stickers on the unit could simply mean the owners didn't like the bill. If you are the G.C. then either find a good professional or put the ball back in the homeowners court before it becomes your problem.


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## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

nhmaster3015 said:


> It's either an ignition problem (transformer, electrodes)
> a control issue (primary or cad cell)
> Oil pump (coupling, pump, nozzle, filter, strainer, oil line and the oil itself)
> Or a motor problem (motor, wiring, mechanical ) Or it could be an electrical problem (switches, breakers) Or a combination of any or all of the above including improper set-up or a draft and chimney problem. That's why we go to school and learn the trade. You can't troubleshoot the problem because you don't have the background and training. I find it very hard to believe that there are no qualified service tech's in the area. multiple stickers on the unit could simply mean the owners didn't like the bill. If you are the G.C. then either find a good professional or put the ball back in the homeowners court before it becomes your problem.


This person has been a customer of mine for 25 years. I will get this problem fixed if I have to go through the Columbia County directory oil company by oil company to do it. The problem is finding a person who can diagnose a problem that happens intermittently.
Last night I set the thermostat back to 55 degrees to see if the problem could be recreated. At 6 am this morning I went down to the boiler and found it had tripped. Service tech arrived here an hour later. He found scoring on the nozzle that had been changed on 10/28 and the settings on the nozzle assembly set incorrectly. They were set for a different Beckett gun, not the AFII 150. 
We'll see tonight if this was the issue.
The point of this exercise of gathering information is to be able to ask questions pertinient to the issue. I find it beneficial to the outcome of a problem to be able to speak with the individuals involved. Because ,to date, left to there own devices, they have not preformed well.
Ron


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## skymaster (Oct 23, 2006)

Ron: I am going to get me butt reamed here cause "I am not a professional" however; I just went thru this Hell with my Weil Mclain that has the same Carlin controller. Changed,nozzles,controls, inline fliters, every damn thing that could be disconnected and still SAME problem as yours. SOLVED IT the damn boiler was partially plugged with soot!!!!!!!! With that Carlin control you have a pre and Post purge control and 15 sec test at ignition. It is super sensitive to back pressure, CLEAN THE BOILER It cannot hurt ya and may just solve the whole issue.Good luck:laughing:


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## spheatandair (Dec 3, 2008)

I think sky master had the right idea. Check the flue pipe and even the burner chamber. The unit must have proper air and fuel in and also exhaust out! I am not sure how things work where you are but the suppliers (gas or oil) usually dont pay the techs as well as HVAC co's I have worked for so you just have to keep trying to find a properly trained tech. You might try the manufacture web site for warranty dealers or service centers in your area.


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## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

skymaster said:


> Ron: I am going to get me butt reamed here cause "I am not a professional" however; I just went thru this Hell with my Weil Mclain that has the same Carlin controller. Changed,nozzles,controls, inline fliters, every damn thing that could be disconnected and still SAME problem as yours. SOLVED IT the damn boiler was partially plugged with soot!!!!!!!! With that Carlin control you have a pre and Post purge control and 15 sec test at ignition. It is super sensitive to back pressure, CLEAN THE BOILER It cannot hurt ya and may just solve the whole issue.Good luck:laughing:


The service guy(Monte) was here in July to do the seasonal tuneup. He was at it for almost 4 hours. Seems the lower baffle tubes were almost sealed in place due to less then stellar service in the past. 
But, and this is a big but, it only trips at a lower thermostat setting of 55 degrees. If it was dirty,wouldn't it be an issue at all thermostat settings?


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## spheatandair (Dec 3, 2008)

when it is running more the flue might stay warm allowing the exhaust to have the pattern to allow it to vent better. I battled one for three differnt trips in the rockies around Boulder, Co. and finally installed new injector, proper allenment, cleaned the fuel soaked residue from the burner compartment, then found the elbow right behind the unit had 2" of build-up. I Dont have a ton of experance on oil burners but it is worth checking.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

not sure if this is of any value-I have an oil furnace and had an odd problem of it not firing in the middle of the night. tried all sorts of things and no good. finally, filed down the electrode tips and the contacts between the electrode holder and the ignition transformer. It hasn't tripped offline since that time and before that fix, was doing so regularly for a week.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

I'm not sure if this is of any help but i have a gas boiler that has to be reset if there is any negitive draft on the flu pipe. So if I go over in June and do a little work on the place and turn on a few fans for whatever reason, come September the boiler won't fire. Took me a few years to get this.


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## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

Monte, the service tech came by here yesterday morning after another ,"no heat" call and pulled out the nozzle and made adjustments to these and to a barrel adjustment on the side of the gun.
I set back the thermostat to 55 last night and woke up this morning to a non tripped boiler and temps of 55 in the house. So maybe we have a solution. It's about 15 degrees warmer outside today then it was yesterday, but it's nice to have a possible solution at hand.
I appreciate the time you guys took for the suggested solutions.
Thanks.
Ron


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Does this place have above ground or underground tank and how old is the tank?


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## Ron6519 (Jan 26, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> Does this place have above ground or underground tank and how old is the tank?


The tank is inside and the heating unit is 8 years old. The house was built in 2000.
What I've gathered so far is that a direct vent/intake system should have a CO % in the 12-12 1/2 range. The tuneup indication shows 11 1/2% from July. Monte, the service tech had this bicycle pump like device with indicator paper he would check as he adjusted the boiler. He'd stick it in the stack. I'm guessing that was the CO measuring instrument. I'll call him and ask him what the final setting was.
Ron


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## DOMBUM (Apr 2, 2010)

*Flue & chimney*

Hi, Check the flue & chimney, I have found a few objects partly blocking the flue into chimney & chimney itself.


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## EES (Jan 4, 2010)

Hopefully he's got it fixed by now!!!:laughing:


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## MRDSERVICES (Nov 11, 2010)

*boiler tripping*

the problems i have found with repeated tripping all came down to the cad cell not seeing enough light. some burners have a updated burner tube available to let mor light hit the cad cell. it used a clear material like on some boiler inspection windows. Burnham sent me a new burner tube free for one boiler i was having trouble with. It is alway good to check with the manufacture they usally know their product and what problems have come to their attention.


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## fitter (Nov 25, 2010)

That thar bicycle pump you speak of is only for checking smoke, not CO%. No one should be working on your boiler that does not have a combustion analyzer kit with them,on site and using it after every adjustment. This is B/S if they are not. This boiler reset you talk of is for the primary control,right? and not a high limit?


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