# Work Ethic



## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

I know this topic has been beat down and covered a million times, but I need to get this off my chest.

What is with the younger generation and their complete non-existent level of work ethic?? Started a new guy today. He's 22 years old (a year younger than me). By all means, he's a nice guy. No bad attitude, very respectful, does what he's told. As a person, I have no problem with him whatsoever. Multiple people I'm close with know him personally, and have nothing but good things to say about him.

But at work, he's next to useless. You can almost visually see what's happening in his head. He sees a task, knows it will require effort, _and literally has to work up the courage to perform said task_. Today I had him moving soil around into a series of raised garden beds we built. 

Watching him move dirt was the most painful thing I've ever witnessed. He maybe made one shovel every 20 seconds. After each rep, he'd look at the shovel, look at the pile, and stop in horrified awe at how much work he had left to do and how hard his task was. Come time to push the wheelbarrow, even worse. The idea of moving this heavy object seemed a fate only slightly better than death. Then after dumping the dirt, he'd take a breather to recover seemingly in agony at the "hard work" he was doing.

Yet the reasons for his horrifically slow pace were 0% physical and 100% mental. My sister has the physical strength to do was doing. The problem was the idea of doing hard work is actually frightening to him. Almost to the extent of a phobia. It paralyzed him to the point where he could barely function, and he had no mental ability to push through it to get the job done. The same can be said for a very large chunk of my generation.

I know most of us were brought up knowing that just because it feels uncomfortable or requires effort doesn't mean its ok to stop, or even slow down. But what happened?? All of a sudden the idea of doing something too difficult is so overwhelming that just seeing hard work is enough to throw someone into a near anxiety attack?

At 22 years old, he is by every indication of age, a grown man. Yet you can't call someone a man when they can't push themselves to get a job done just because it requires a little effort. It's a discouraging reality we have to live with in this current generation.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Ok, so?

I try to stay away from shovels.


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I saw the same thing when I was your age and I'd bet every other generation has seen the same. Go hire a 22 year old with a nagging wife, a baby and rent due and you'll see some fire in that belly. That guy's going to dig to China if he has to.

Nothing wrong with this generation, that kid just needs to go hungry for a bit.


----------



## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Ok, so?
> 
> I try to stay away from shovels.


You can say that. You've developed skills to apply yourself in roles that don't involve shovels. So have I. But I bet you've also put in a hard day's work to get where you are today.

Now let's say your a 22 year old kid. You have no skills, no real experience, and no other opportunities currently available to you. You can put in some work, make some money, and learn a trade that is going to let you have a rewarding career. The only catch is you have to break a sweat to do it.

Are you telling me you would throw away the one opportunity you have just because you have to push yourself a little bit? If it was me, I'd be busting my ass behind that shovel and proving that I'm willing to work hard and produce work involving more engaging tools than a shovel.


----------



## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Give him a reasonable time frame to do his tasks.

Gomer, I need these raised beds filled with dirt from that pile right there.
You have 30 minutes and then we need to move on to another task.

Do you have any questions? Good. Better get started.


If the task isn't completed, it gives you the in to talk with him and try to save (or not) his job.

My next door neighbor's kid is 18 and hasn't done any (nada, zip, zilch, zero) work at all. I doubt he will know the first thing about a shovel either if one comes his way eventually.


----------



## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

> If it was me


It's not....get used to it.


----------



## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I've worked with a few ex army young guys who had some really good hustle. They made every task a challenge. This one guy even kept setting his stop watch to track and improve his speeds.

Another young guy, probably about 19, in college. Academic type. Also had great hustle. Didn't like to stand around, so he'd always find something to do even if I was figuring out the next thing.

Another young guy production framing background. Great at that. Give him a challenge though like remodel framing and he ground to a halt. When there were 5 ways to do one thing he couldn't pick one.

You just have to find the right people. They are out there. The hardest thing is figuring out if it's worth giving the slow guy a chance. Confidence comes with experience. For some that takes a day or two, for some a month or two. Some never get it.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

You just have to find the right people. They are out there. The hardest thing is figuring out if it's worth giving the slow guy a chance. Confidence comes with experience. For some that takes a day or two, for some a month or two. Some never get it.[/QUOTE]


While I agree, figuring out which one you got can be an expensive transition. You like to at least see some kind of hint that he will eventually succeed. Watching what the OP described is just gonna make me get the paperwork in line to let the guy go. At some point during that day, he better either kick it into gear, or at the very least improve his attitude so that at least mentally he gets himself in a better place. I hate working with quitters.


----------



## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I live in Silicon Valley, California. Most 20 somethings here are living in Mom's house, playing computer games and waiting for the $100,000 Facebook job to come knocking at the door. 

If you've been raised by "new age" parents, and, had them tell you, your whole life, how special, entitled and different you are, plus never having to worry or break a sweat about having mom and dad get you everything you ever wanted.........what would you expect.


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

You want to drive yourself to drink go talk to the younger generation....

Very few are interested in learning anything that they can make a living at. Manual labor, getting dirty or going home tired are not tasks thet consider doing.

Now play video games or text on the phone, all day long....

They feel they are owed a living and don't want to work for anything...

Student aid, welfare & growing dope pay too well, require virtually no physical effort and leave plenty of time for the cell phone....

and parents ARE WAY TOO PROTECTIVE and willing to underwrite their kids lazy ass lives.....


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

EthanB said:


> I saw the same thing when I was your age and I'd bet every other generation has seen the same. Go hire a 22 year old with a nagging wife, a baby and rent due and you'll see some fire in that belly. That guy's going to dig to China if he has to.
> 
> Nothing wrong with this generation, that kid just needs to go hungry for a bit.


Yes sir! A Whif ..Couple of kids ...And a big bank note should set him straight real quick !!! Throw in two car payments .And some doctor bills along with the vet bills. [kids gotta have pets!] It won't take long before before he turns into a Hustler !! :laughing:


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

cwatbay said:


> I live in Silicon Valley, California. Most 20 somethings here are living in Mom's house, playing computer games and waiting for the $100,000 Facebook job to come knocking at the door.
> 
> If you've been raised by "new age" parents, and, had them tell you, your whole life, how special, entitled and different you are, plus never having to worry or break a sweat about having mom and dad get you everything you ever wanted.........what would you expect.


I see the same chit over here . Don't even get me started ! 

My BIL thinks he's the most intelligent human that ever lived ! But hasn't left home since birth ! And never will ! He's 40! How sad is that? 

Every time I see the boy I want to punch him In the face .. But!!! I love his Sister!


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Some people are not cut out for manual labor, big deal.


----------



## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

Should have gotten him to dig a few holes for deck posts. the whole shoveling loose dirt into a wheelbarrow would look allot more appealing.


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Some people are not cut out for manual labor, big deal.


True that! But When I have to clean out my Father In Laws gutters While his own able bodied son has been a bum for 40 years seems to piss me off a bit!...A bunch!!!


----------



## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm gonna agree with Ethan on this. All eras are the same. Often people will do only what is required of them.

Hockey, you're the same age as the kid with no hustle. Clearly the younger generation is fine if you catch the right ones.

My grandfather told me a great story from his father's(my GGF) farm. Back some time in the late 30's they had a young hand that was routinely found passed out from drinking the fermentation from the bottom of the grain silo with a length of rubber hose. He was the greatest generation.
Go ahead, tell me again about the kids today.


----------



## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Some people are not cut out for manual labor, big deal.


You're missing the point.

It has nothing to do with manual labour. It's about not being mentally strong enough to push through something that's hard.

This guy couldn't move lose dirt from point A to point B. Let's say down the road he takes a job in sales (clearly the construction biz isn't going to work out for him). Now what if his future wife gets sick, has to stop working, and now it's on him to support his family. Are you going to tell me that buddy who got overwhelmed at the task of shovelling dirt is going to be able to man up, grind it out, and get his numbers up so his family can eat? That requires a lot more mental strength than shovelling dirt.

Call me crazy, but the ability of my grandfather's, and even parents' generation to "suck it up and do it" seems to be fading fast. Everyone runs into adversity in some form or another weather it be something as complex as losing a loved one or as simple as a large pile of dirt that needs to be moved. Being able to push through adversity is 100% a mandatory trait to live a successful life.

It's my opinion that people from my generation, moreso than the ones preceding me, are weak, easily broken, and crumble upon the first sign of adversity.


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Age doesn't make a man.


----------



## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

thehockeydman said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> It has nothing to do with manual labour. It's about not being mentally strong enough to push through something that's hard.
> 
> ...



What you are speaking about is gumption with a heavy dose of constitution. 

(trying to type this on a tablet with SwiftKey is like trying to drive a spike with the end of a 2x4)

Sorry for teditorial, but it seemed fit.


----------



## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

I hired a 19 year old 3 years ago. He didn't last a month, no motivation, moved slow, and didn't catch on to repeated tasks. 

Hired him again about 3 months ago. Totally different guy. A few years at dead end jobs made learning a trade a lot more appealing. He is at the shop at least 10 minutes early every day, understands attic work and ditches are in his job description, and has pretty heavily invested in tools.

I've hired and fired some 40 year olds that wouldn't get the second chance.


----------



## tony1964 (Jun 2, 2015)

That's why I don't have any employees!


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

thehockeydman said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> It has nothing to do with manual labour. It's about not being mentally strong enough to push through something that's hard.
> 
> ...


I am not missing any point. 

Shoveling dirt is not adversity. 

Amazing that you have already determined that he won't be able to support his possible sick future wife because he sucked at shoveling some dirt.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

thehockeydman said:


> Call me crazy, but the ability of my grandfather's, and even parents' generation to "suck it up and do it" seems to be fading fast.


It hasn't gone anywhere. The great majority of any generation does what _needs_ to be done. That's part of our hard-coded instinct for individual and species survival--we wouldn't be here if our ancestors didn't have it.

Individuals' definition of "need" can vary pretty widely, and I can guarantee mine is different from yours. I figured out quite a while back that yours is pretty much irrelevant unless it takes food out of my mouth. Till that happens, I ain't gonna worry about it.


----------



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm 28. Hired a lot of older guys that aren't worth anything, hired a lot of younger guys who aren't worth anything.

I've found the sweet spot to be those who are married with kids and a mortgage or rent.


----------



## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

Next time, grab a shovel that's significantly smaller than the one he is using and race him. Don't expect folks to follow your example if you fail to lead them. More than likely he has never been taught HOW to work. You're his boss, role model and employer. Find a way to motivate him. If a warm body shows up to work every morning, I assume poor performance is due to my poor management.... until proven otherwise.


----------



## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Motivation by obligation. Even the bible says..money answereth all things. Its wild out here....guys not knowing how to handle a job.


----------



## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

thehockeydman said:


> I know this topic has been beat down and covered a million times, but I need to get this off my chest.
> 
> What is with the younger generation and their complete non-existent level of work ethic?? Started a new guy today. He's 22 years old (a year younger than me). By all means, he's a nice guy. No bad attitude, very respectful, does what he's told. As a person, I have no problem with him whatsoever. Multiple people I'm close with know him personally, and have nothing but good things to say about him.
> 
> ...


When I started in construction it was my dad that got me the job in the same shop he worked in all his life. 

I knew I got the job because of him, but I wouldn't keep it because of him. 

The regulars worked me hard, and so did my dad. Every journeyman wanted me on the jobs because they knew I was making my own name and not living off his. Also, I loved at home with no rent, no bills, etc


----------



## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

That's a beautiful example of a parent making sure you had the opportunity and then letting you prove yourself .


----------



## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

Quality_PTG said:


> When I started in construction it was my dad that got me the job in the same shop he worked in all his life.
> 
> I knew I got the job because of him, but I wouldn't keep it because of him.
> 
> The regulars worked me hard, and so did my dad. Every journeyman wanted me on the jobs because they knew I was making my own name and not living off his. Also, I loved at home with no rent, no bills, etc


I told my wife just the other day that my boys will hate working for me. They will be pushed hard and get no special treatment. 

It would be a disservice to them to do it any different.


----------



## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

SamM said:


> I told my wife just the other day that my boys will hate working for me. They will be pushed hard and get no special treatment.
> 
> It would be a disservice to them to do it any different.


Exactly. Once the owner forced me on one of my dad's jobs he had be Palm sanding block walls for 6 months. Just me keeping 6-8 journeymen going 7 days a week.


----------



## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

All young adults need a job that requires them to be at a certain place at a certain time everyday and answer to an adult....ideally non family


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Ok, so?
> 
> I try to stay away from shovels.


Me too, but I couldn't avoid it this weekend. Had to help my neighbor build fence around the ground he sold me for my shop.

That worst part, I'm ashamed to say, I let a 75 year old man outwork me.


----------



## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

My niece married a guy long on effort and academics, short on implementation. He offered to do some yard work while they were staying with us and my wife assigned him a dead bush to remove. Twenty minutes later her yard tool is dead and the bush is still standing, but I'd give him an "A" for effort anyway.

It took him seven years, but he earned a PhD in biophysics. If you want a Chia pet on the roof of your truck that converts sunlight to fuel, he's your man. Yard work, not so much. He's looking for a job.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

You might want to ask the guy if he's taking any meds.

I have a similar situation with a 20-year-old that I hired on a part-time basis. He has the physical strength to do anything I need him to do but any task that is somewhat difficult or impossible he wants to know if there is some sort of tool or machine that can do it. :blink: Apparently he didn't get the memo that tools and machinery replaces people, thus he'd be out of a job.  The guy is always looking for an opportunity to sit down every possible moment and spends most of the time scratching his head trying to figure out how I could better do something other than making him do the old fashioned heave-ho.

But anyhow, one day we were sitting down having lunch and he told us that he takes 4 different medications. He said, "I have A.D.D., I have a mild anxiety disorder, I'm bi-polar, I have trouble staying focused, and I'm pre-diabetic.' :blink:

Personally I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong with this guy other than the fact that someone put all of the ideas in his head that said otherwise. I think that as a child growing up, his mother took him to the doctor to get him a prescription every time he acted-out or misbehaved. Age 12 turns into 16. Then 16 turns into 20 and he still thinks like a kid who takes meds without knowing the reason. 

So in addition to being told that they are special and being rewarded for a half-effort and allowing them to quit when things get difficult is only part of the issue. the other part is not having had a swift kick in the rear to cure the series of behavioral issues. I need to have a serious disucssion with this guy to find out if he thinks that he really needs all of that medication or if he's just going through the motions.


----------



## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

I'm about to take a risk on a 20 year old. Kid I've been riding with at the skate park. Energetic, cocky, obviously works hard at riding. We'll see how he is at work tomorrow


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

The reality: Going to work as a shovel operator ain't at the top of career choices for anybody in any generation.

I hate doing that sh*t my own damned self. But I'm a competitive SOB. You put somebody next to me doing the same, and I will do more than him, every time.

Flip side: You put somebody next to me shoveling, he'll be doing nearly as much as me by the end of the day - or you'll be asking me "What did you say/do to make him walk off ?"


----------



## Sabagley (Dec 31, 2012)

illbuildit.dd said:


> I'm about to take a risk on a 20 year old. Kid I've been riding with at the skate park. Energetic, cocky, obviously works hard at riding. We'll see how he is at work tomorrow


20 isn't a kid. If he's 20 doesn't have a job and hangs out at a skate park, don't be too surprised when he doesn't put it all out there for you.


----------



## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Sabagley said:


> 20 isn't a kid. If he's 20 doesn't have a job and hangs out at a skate park, don't be too surprised when he doesn't put it all out there for you.


Whatever happens wont surprise me either way. I've known him about 4 years. Remember him getting his license. He's been on his own so its 50 50. 
Heck I'm 44 and hang out at the skate park.:laughing:


----------



## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I had a labourer, same age as me, that complained that about shoveling and said that he came here to learn carpentry not dig holes. I said everyone starts out digging holes. Then he says I want to do important things, this is BS! I said how can I expect you to handle the big things if you can't handle the small ones. I'm here right now, digging the same holes and I'm a carpenter. If we needed the help the boss would jump in here with us and help. You need to earn your keep and if you show you can handle the menial tasks then we will consider you for training. He still didn't get it.

He didn't last long. Thought he should start at the top with no marketable skills.


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

We must all go through a rite of passage, and it must be physical, it must be painful, and it must leave a mark.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Anyone who refuses to dig a hole is either very good at what they do or they aren't good at doing anything. 

I had that same conversation with my 20 year old employee who didn't want to climb through attics and crawl spaces to pull wire. He said that he thinks he might be better at hooking up the wires in the control panel and programming the system. When I explained to him that the position has already been filled AND every single person on the crew has been through the crawl space before, he had the nerve to ask if I would make one of the other guys pull the wire since they had no problem doing it. :blink: 

So after playing out the next scenario in my mind of me beating the guy down, putting him in the hospital, getting arrested, going to jail, meeting Big Tiny, getting passed around to each one of Big Tiny's friends, and having traumatic flashbacks for the rest of my life, I politely dismissed him for the day. 

:laughing:


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

tedanderson said:


> Anyone who refuses to dig a hole is either very good at what they do or they aren't good at doing anything.
> 
> I had that same conversation with my 20 year old employee who didn't want to climb through attics and crawl spaces to pull wire. He said that he thinks he might be better at hooking up the wires in the control panel and programming the system. When I explained to him that the position has already been filled AND every single person on the crew has been through the crawl space before, he had the nerve to ask if I would make one of the other guys pull the wire since they had no problem doing it. :blink:
> 
> ...



I would nick name him Bubble Boy! But that's just me! :whistling


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

tedanderson said:


> Anyone who refuses to dig a hole is either very good at what they do or they aren't good at doing anything.
> 
> I had that same conversation with my 20 year old employee who didn't want to climb through attics and crawl spaces to pull wire. He said that he thinks he might be better at hooking up the wires in the control panel and programming the system. When I explained to him that the position has already been filled AND every single person on the crew has been through the crawl space before, he had the nerve to ask if I would make one of the other guys pull the wire since they had no problem doing it. :blink:
> 
> ...



Where I used to work, I eventually became the guy that does the hiring. My first hire was sight unseen, and behaved exactly like your guy. His first task was to move 300 studs from the lumber pile to the inside of the house. He had the gall to ask me, "Why don't we all carry these, and it will go much faster?. The only thing that went faster was his termination that same day.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I set up 4 flights of scaffolding today, took it down, set it up again, took it back down and then humped it back up the hill to my trailer 

I decided to quit early after that.


----------



## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

We made nicknames for the labourers. 

Buttercup, Gucci, Nancy. 

If you got a nickname, you knew you were on the way out.


----------



## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

My earlier post was ragging on 20 somethings that feel entitled, special and hoping for more hand outs from mom, dad, business, society, the government and so forth. 

But just yesterday we started on a project. The other guy helping owns a firm in the sunny, seaside, city of Santa Cruz, CA. Home of University of California Santa Cruz....who just happen to turn out more highly educated dolts than any other campus (Berkeley might be a close second). But the university is not my story. 

So my pal hires a 50 something guy, part time to start, to help out on jobs. This guy has something close to 20 years experience with another firm, but is out on his own, while he wife has a "real" job and basically is the bread winner of the family. 

So this guy fits the mold of the hippy dippy alarm guy. Basically his experience is just doing pre-wires for housing developments. Well, out here, the large housing development has gone away, and, this guy no longer works for the firm that had him. Although the owner of the firm says this guy was great and had a lot of knowledge. 

Well Mr. Great and Knowledgeable showed up for the job interview with dreadlocks (he's a white guy, 50+ years old), surfer dude T-shirt and sandals. He mentioned toward the end of the interview that he doesn't do "good" first interviews. What??? This is your first interview !! and you know you don't do so well, so you show up like this !!!

Well, my pal hired him anyway just to try him out. Guess what ? The dude doesn't like wearing company shirts....doesn't like working 5 days a week.....doesn't like getting up early to go to work.....doesn't like going out of town for work.....doesn't like rules and regulations that "hinder" his life style and self expression.............BTW....him and his wife tried going into the organic bagel business (like every other person in laid back Santa Cruz) and it flopped....like a dead bagel. 

My only connection with this is that my pal and his hippy dippy worker dude were both supposed to show up at 7am Monday for a project of mine. My pal shows up alone and not in a good mood. He said that the "dude" called him up Sunday night and said he couldn't make it to work because he hurt his back staining his deck.....and he had to take a couple of days off to go see his holistic new age chiropractor to get his back fixed, his aura readjusted and his chakra straightened out. 

Nonetheless, I am using the old "I told you so" on my pal right now. As it was, the project went fine with just two of us.


----------



## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

pinwheel said:


> Me too, but I couldn't avoid it this weekend. Had to help my neighbor build fence around the ground he sold me for my shop.
> 
> That worst part, I'm ashamed to say, I let a 75 year old man outwork me.


He's probably sitting at the coffee shop talking about the damn kid that can't keep up with him.


----------



## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

Many years ago, i think i was about 17,I was hired as a labourer. 
We were building a fairground. 
I was tasked with covering a culvert with gravel. 
I wanted to show the supervisor that I could work hard. 
Shovelling gravel like a madman, impressed with myself. 
The super says, you remind me of a dog taking a [email protected] 
Expending a lot of energy, and getting [email protected] all accomplished. 
He then taught me how to shovel properly. 
I've never forgotten that lesson. Still makes me laugh
He was later my instructor at a heavy equipment college. 
Took me aside and said, it's just as easy to be ten minutes early as it is to be ten minutes late. 
Another good lesson. 
What can I say, I was a slow learner. Haha


----------



## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Here's the problem : For about 50 years, we ve told our brightest young people to go to college and make something of themselves . At the same time , we abandoned the concept of directing , developing and insuring future tradespeople . 

Teachers told challenged students they would "dig ditches". ( heavy equipment operators do quite well....)

We developed a negative view toward blue collar work as a culture .

As Mike Rowe said, " We have been so busy filling the corner office, we forgot to train someone to build it." Well said.

Now we are left with a bunch of dopeheads to build our houses .

The upside is , if you are clean, sober and dependable , have good trade skill and can manage money , and ..I repeat... and aren't afraid to work, you will do well out here. Also, you won't have as much competition. ....these guys aren't going to take your work away. You can't even give it to them.

These guys aren't burned out....they aren't even lit !!! 

Every website, nationwide, every contractor is so fed up trying to develop a team to serve his clients . the shortage of technical knowledge is critical ...we have guys that know nothing and don't want to know anything . They want a check, no stress and an easy day. 

My advice: Don't let them bring you down. Say no.. Reward the good ones , sell and schedule smart and make it happen .


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

....


----------



## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

I ll add this ....I hate it for all of us. I'm passionate about what we do .... I want the best for my clients, my employees and my family . I am constantly working to save my company from its own employees.... And I have some great folks ....but waste, mistakes , bad attitudes, rework ....it can kill you .

Here is one more thing ...you don't die out here usually from one big goof......YOU DIE THE DEATH OF A 1,000 CUTS. And that's slow and painful.

Stand tall, do good work, charge accordingly, be specific in your contracts and collect what is owed and when its owed. Be a person of your word, return calls, put it in writing , show class. 

Be nice , but more importantly, be professional. Keep it business.

And as hard as it is , when people aren't performing , let them know . Show them , write down the days objective , then come back and check how they did. Review it. Teach them to work ahead .


Also, if you leave one crew , don't tell them where you are going or when you will be back.... Keep them on their toes ...also they ll warn crews at other jobs to get busy , you are heading that way. You don't have to be a bear , but stay on top of your work .


----------



## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Dude I've seen that picture of your trailer a dozen times by now is it your signature or something?


----------



## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I am not missing any point.
> 
> Shoveling dirt is not adversity.
> 
> Amazing that you have already determined that he won't be able to support his possible sick future wife because he sucked at shoveling some dirt.


You do seem to be missing the point because it has nothing to do with shovelling.

To you, me, and I'm sure everyone else on here, shovelling dirt is not adversity. It's a menial task that we tend to avoid if possible. But if either of us were put into a situation where for some reason we _had_ to shovel, or do some other menial task, it would get done. Not doing so just means you're incredibly weak-minded. And for someone who's weak-minded, shovelling becomes adversity.

I stand 100% by my sick wife conclusion. This guy shows up eager to work and *needing* the money. The first "challenge" he came across was a pile of dirt. In his mind, the challenge was too much for him and he was incapable of completing such a daunting task. If you've ever competed in a sport like wrestling, you know what it means to see someone "break." Yesterday, I saw this guy break on the end of a shovel. 

Life's challenges are a hell of a lot harder than moving dirt. If that's enough to break him, I don't see how he could function in the face of real adversity.


----------



## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

For everyone saying I should've gave him a time frame, lead by example, etc, believe me I tried.

First thing I tried was to show him what it looks like to do it right. He said he couldn't go that fast. I said I wanted the pile gone in an hour. He came no where close.

I even went over and asked him if he wanted to quit. He begged me to let him keep working. I told him I needed him to work faster. He kept saying "I'm sorry." and "I'm really going as fast as I can."

In truth, I don't think he was lying. Like I said, he's a good person. I genuinely believe he thinks that's as fast as he can work because he doesn't have the mental strength to push himself any harder.

I do believe that social trends and technology have enabled many of my peers to grow up living a life where they never once had to push themselves. This separates my generation from previous ones. For these reasons, I stand by my original conclusions.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

thehockeydman said:


> You do seem to be missing the point because it has nothing to do with shovelling.
> 
> To you, me, and I'm sure everyone else on here, shovelling dirt is not adversity. It's a menial task that we tend to avoid if possible. But if either of us were put into a situation where for some reason we _had_ to shovel, or do some other menial task, it would get done. Not doing so just means you're incredibly weak-minded. And for someone who's weak-minded, shovelling becomes adversity.
> 
> ...


I look at that pile of dirt as a solution to my challenges and not THE challenge. That challenge is paying my rent and eating.


----------



## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> I look at that pile of dirt as a solution to my challenges and not THE challenge. That challenge is paying my rent and eating.


Agreed. Either way you look at it, no grown man should be mentally broken at the prospect of shovelling dirt.

The damn pile wasn't even that big...


----------



## Framer87 (Dec 27, 2014)

Youngin' said:


> I had a labourer, same age as me, that complained that about shoveling and said that he came here to learn carpentry not dig holes. I said everyone starts out digging holes. Then he says I want to do important things, this is BS! I said how can I expect you to handle the big things if you can't handle the small ones. I'm here right now, digging the same holes and I'm a carpenter. If we needed the help the boss would jump in here with us and help. You need to earn your keep and if you show you can handle the menial tasks then we will consider you for training. He still didn't get it.
> 
> He didn't last long. Thought he should start at the top with no marketable skills.


I think I might have hired that same guy... for 14 1/2 hrs


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I've noticed the young bucks that regularly visit this site are the kids we all would like to have work for us. Everytime I start thinking we are all doomed and I read Posts from youngin', extremmtnbiker, etc, it gives me hope. It's a daunting thought to think this generation will be taking care of me when I'm old and senile.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Some people are not cut out for manual labor, big deal.


I know when I was younger I didn't want to do manual labor. Especially for someone else.


----------



## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

hockeydman,
you are too young and close to the situation to have correct perspective on it......

I will be 53 this summer---so I have watched ---- for over 30 years each new batch of 21 year olds come and go.......

nothing has really changed--- it is the same now as it was then.......

some people are mature at age 15
some at 20
some at 25

some never grow up--- I have a sister who is nearly 60---who never left home. she graduated college---and instead of taking a professional job which was easily available to her at her employer at that time----she took a low level clerical job instead---worked 25 years and retired.
never left home, never started her own life, never married, never raised a family, never bought a house--- never progressed beyond where she was at 16 ( though she has managed to go bankrupt TWICE)

I could go on and on---but basically 21 year olds today are not much different than we were 30 plus years ago.--- they have grown up with a few more toys and gadgets than we did---and they have a few less opportunities than we did--- but they are basically the same.

also--- one of my sons got married last october. at the wedding reception one of his buddies got pretty drunk and came up to me and said " I want to thank you for everything you taught me.--- remember when I worked for you a couplle months about 6 years ago??????? I know I wasn't a very good worker back then--- but you taught me so much........" and then for about 10 minutes he went on to repeat all these things he claimed I told him---things I said, lessons imparted------ ."
Of course I didn't remember doing anyof it--- but apparently working for me,briefly was a formative moment in his life ( he was 18-19 at the time)

so, just do your best ,set an example, teach when you can and keep moving forward.
it will all work out.
stephen


----------

