# Gutters. How long for one run?



## CrescentGutter

There's been an indirect inquiry sent my way but I've not been approached yet about a job for a very long run of gutter. 
A person has a building 210 feet long and is inquiring if it's possible for me to install one continuous length of 6 inch seamless. This far exceeds anything I've run off to date. 
Can it be done? Should it be done? What would be the best way if possible? I'm thinking it would be impossible to pitch it even with crowning at the midway point and it would have to be installed level with several downspouts. 
Although it appears that the job won't take place for quite some time, I'm curious to know everyone's take on this scenario in case it does materialize and come my way. 
All input is appreciated.


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## Grumpy

It CAN be done, but it should not be done. Anything over 80 WILL oilcan and buckle. we did a job last winter 86', I pushed it knowing what I was doing was wrong but figured "eh 6' won't matter" wrong we oil canned in two spots. Just a friendly remidner from God to stay on the right course and not be like every other joe hack out there. Now we have to cut the gutter at the oil can and install expansion joints. Problem is I should have done that in the first palce and I knew it, but now I get to pay for it.... grrrrrr!

You're going to have to hame multiple pitch points/crowns I don't like to put more than 40' to one downspout. I can stretch that to 60' if it's oversized. So you'll have a series of highs and lows in the 210' length of gutter.


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## Framer53

CrescentGutter said:


> There's been an indirect inquiry sent my way but I've not been approached yet about a job for a very long run of gutter.
> A person has a building 210 feet long and is inquiring if it's possible for me to install one continuous length of 6 inch seamless. This far exceeds anything I've run off to date.
> Can it be done? Should it be done? What would be the best way if possible? I'm thinking it would be impossible to pitch it even with crowning at the midway point and it would have to be installed level with several downspouts.
> Although it appears that the job won't take place for quite some time, I'm curious to know everyone's take on this scenario in case it does materialize and come my way.
> All input is appreciated.



The run is fine if you have enough outlets.

I have seen long runs before with numerous downspouts. I believe it is installed level as water will run to the outlets except for the last little bit.

How long is your gutter coil?


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## OldNBroken

Dunno about max length of run for light gage seamless. Rule of thumb we use is no more than 40' between downspouts and, as grumpy painfully found out, the long you go the more stress you will put on your metal.


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## CrescentGutter

Longest run to date has been 68' 4". Crowned at the center and spouted on each end. Not familiar with expansion joints, Grumpy. Never had to install one and my local supplier doesn't show anything like that in the seamless gutter section of their catalog.
I've seen it recommended to end cap where you want the joint and begin the next section with another end cap. From there you can fabricate your own flashing to cover the butted end caps. How is it done in the Windy City?
FYI I've got a 6 inch machine and use .032 coil. A 350 lb. roll will do about 600 feet.


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## Grumpy

You won't find gutter expansion joints at most gutter/dising suppliers. But many specialty sheet metal shops in my area can get them. http://www.guttersupply.com/p-Euro-Copper-Gutter-Expansion-Joints.gstml I am sure you can find them in K style too...


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## seeyou

CrescentGutter said:


> Longest run to date has been 68' 4". Crowned at the center and spouted on each end. Not familiar with expansion joints, Grumpy. Never had to install one and my local supplier doesn't show anything like that in the seamless gutter section of their catalog.
> *I've seen it recommended to end cap where you want the joint and begin the next section with another end cap. From there you can fabricate your own flashing to cover the butted end caps.* How is it done in the Windy City?
> FYI I've got a 6 inch machine and use .032 coil. A 350 lb. roll will do about 600 feet.


The way I've done expansion joints ( I think I got this detail out of the SMACNA manual ) is to slide one piece of gutter inside the other about 2-3". Install an end cap (hand made) on the inside of the inside section of gutter right at the end. Install a similar end cap about an inch away from the end of the inside piece of gutter to close off the outside section. Fabricate a loose fitting cap to cover the gap.


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## CrescentGutter

Online research is showing that Alcoa makes a part OG25 expansion joint and that Mastic (still Alcoa) has a 6 inch gutter expansion joint. 
However they don't seem to be the easiest part to track down. 
As seeyou says, I've also found a PDF document that shows notching the lip back 2 inches and sliding one end into the other and sealing. This document also recommends riveting this area, so I wonder how it would be able to expand/contract?


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## seeyou

CrescentGutter said:


> Online research is showing that Alcoa makes a part OG25 expansion joint and that Mastic (still Alcoa) has a 6 inch gutter expansion joint.
> However they don't seem to be the easiest part to track down.
> As seeyou says, I've also found a PDF document that shows notching the lip back 2 inches and sliding one end into the other and sealing. This document also recommends riveting this area, so *I wonder how it would be able to expand/contract?*



Doesn't sound like it would. I've certainly never seen anything like that in the field. The expansion joint I described is less visually obtrusive than the "store bought" ones. Just looks like a joint from the ground.


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## Grumpy

I have an expansion joint like seeyou described on my condo building. They have 200' runs with one joint.


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## Tom Struble

some gutter guys will hang 2 separate gutters both end capped separated by about an inch,small pc of flashing over the end caps


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## Capital Gutters

*3 pieces*

I'd either do the end cap to end cap like was mentioned 

or

put up in 3 pieces with 1 6" overlap on each piece-cut the lip of 1 gutter 6" so the other can slide into it-make a caulk sandwich in between the 2 gutters-screw together securely and then caulk again-put a couple hangers at the joint.

Madison Roofing
Madison Siding


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## CrescentGutter

Thanks for all of the insights. Lots of good advice here. No idea if the job will materialize or come my way, but it's always nice to have options and the opinions of those more experienced in the field.


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## CrescentGutter

Just picked up a couple of jobs with semi long runs. One is a straight shot 70 footer and the other has separate straight 60 foot runs on a garage and a 54 run on a porch. I'd be crowning these and downspouting each end. 
Anyone have a recommendation on expansion joint spacing? Thanks!


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## Capital Gutters

You can put a 70' piece up as 1 piece no problem. I would start thinking about 2 pieces around 90' though I've done 110' as 1 piece. It depends too on how difficult the install is-trees in the way, tall building, etc. But 70' would usually be 1 piece.


Madison Roofing
Madison Siding


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## AAA Gutter

We have done up to 125 feet in 1 piece.

If you have enough downspouts, I would install as 2 pieces, endcap the ends and cover the joint with a piece of flashing. 

However, here is a source for expansion joints

http://www.gutterworks.com/catalog.html


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## CrescentGutter

Thanks for the advice, guys. As I didn't get a chance to check for any responses before I went ahead and installed the run, I played it safe did an expansion joint at the halfway point of the 70 footer. 
It did happen to rain this afternoon while I was working on the remainder of the job and things are looking like they're flowing in the right directions. 
I don't think I'll lose any sleep over throwing an expansion joint into a 70' run.



AAA Gutter said:


> We have done up to 125 feet in 1 piece.
> 
> If you have enough downspouts, I would install as 2 pieces, endcap the ends and cover the joint with a piece of flashing.
> 
> However, here is a source for expansion joints
> 
> http://www.gutterworks.com/catalog.html


I forgot to mention that this is one of those 4 sided, pyramid shaped roofs, so there are 4 outside corner miters, no end caps where the longest runs are. Seem to have gotten several jobs on this style roof this season. 
But where the joint is I went with the method suggested by seeyou. Doesn't look too bad at all. In the future I can see using either that method or the end cap method with probably equal success.


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## red_cedar

Seeyou's way is the way to do it. A similar method with loose fitting cap and formed pieces are used with built in gutters as well.


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## Ghostbeard

seeyou said:


> The way I've done expansion joints ( I think I got this detail out of the SMACNA manual ) is to slide one piece of gutter inside the other about 2-3". Install an end cap (hand made) on the inside of the inside section of gutter right at the end. Install a similar end cap about an inch away from the end of the inside piece of gutter to close off the outside section. Fabricate a loose fitting cap to cover the gap.


Thats the way i instruct my Contractors.

Another is to endacp (Standard endcaps) both gutter ends, space gutter 3" from each other, and flash an apron up top. But this method doesn't look as aesthetically pleasing.

Another necessity, is the type of hanger to use. Wrap-A-Round Hangers and T-Strap to roof methods will allow gutter to float. hidden Hangers and Spike/ Ferrule method pins it down, and may cause oil canning.

Our experience with long runs, any seams will tend to split apart, regardless of rivets or zip-screws. would recommend the SMACNA expansion joint or continuous run, but a 210' run would require a few extra hands and ladders.


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## CrescentGutter

Grumpy said:


> It CAN be done, but it should not be done. Anything over 80 WILL oilcan and buckle. we did a job last winter 86', I pushed it knowing what I was doing was wrong but figured "eh 6' won't matter" wrong we oil canned in two spots. Just a friendly remidner from God to stay on the right course and not be like every other joe hack out there. Now we have to cut the gutter at the oil can and install expansion joints. Problem is I should have done that in the first palce and I knew it, but now I get to pay for it.... grrrrrr!
> 
> You're going to have to hame multiple pitch points/crowns I don't like to put more than 40' to one downspout. I can stretch that to 60' if it's oversized. So you'll have a series of highs and lows in the 210' length of gutter.


Ok, I have to ask Grumpy. What exactly is "oil canning"? A buckle or folding up of the gutter in one spot?
As far as my original question about the 210 footer, that never came to pass. However I did an estimate yesterday with one run of 82 feet. I explained to the customer and the home builder that it should probably contain an expansion joint at the halfway point. They didn't seem thrilled by the idea. Bad enough that they're adamant about having a single 3x4 downspout on a run that long because there's a drainage area at that end of the home in this housing development.
For what it's worth I install 6 inch gutter at .032 thickness.


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## Mrman

Hey guys. I tried forever to hunt these things down as I needed 2 for a job with a 50 ft run on each side. 

There are a couple websites that offer these Alcoa 5" neoprene expansion joints but they want a premium. 

Locally, they are $40 each and online they are selling for $30 each shipped. 

I found a 12 pack and have 10 remaining if anyone is interested. They work with 5" K style aluminum gutters.

Will sell $12 each with free shipping. Send me a private message if you are interested.


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## CrescentGutter

Wow, that was an old thread! I've since put up thousands of feet of gutters. Amazing how foolish you feel about questions you asked way back when! :whistling
I don't claim to be a wizard by any means. But I definitely know a lot more, have more equipment and get things done a heck of a lot faster than when I started out.


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## CdnTrougher

We have successfully installed a 225' continuous 5" piece with no oil canning. 

Oh, and that was with a crew of two. =)


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## Roofcheck

CdnTrougher said:


> We have successfully installed a 225' continuous 5" piece with no oil canning.
> 
> Oh, and that was with a crew of two. =)


I didn't believe the first part and sure as [email protected]$ don't believe the second.


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## CdnTrougher

Roofcheck said:


> I didn't believe the first part and sure as [email protected]$ don't believe the second.


Lol

I invite you to come to Lloydminster, AB and I will show you first hand. =)


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## Roofcheck

How tall are you? I'm asking as I'm 6-5 and holding a 70' piece of 5" .032" over my head both ends are close to touching the ground. 

Roughly 35 feet between me and the end and say your partner is up the gutter another 35 we are now 140 feet. You still have 85 feet to deal with. 

I know I'm awesome, I'm sure you are as well but man I gotta ask how you did it?


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## Roofcheck

CdnTrougher said:


> Lol
> 
> I invite you to come to Lloydminster, AB and I will show you first hand. =)


Is that Alabama?


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## CdnTrougher

I agree with you that using normal techniques would be utterly impossible when attempting a feat of this nature. But rest assured it was just the two of us and a little ingenuity. 

Did I also mention that this piece had to go 25 ft up?

AB is Alberta.

I will eventually tell you how we did it but I want to see if anyone can deduce how we did first.


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## Roofcheck

Got any recent pics of it? Sudden temperature changes cause those oil canning and I've seen in on 50, 60, and 70 foot pieces. I'd like to see that successfully standing up to time. 

Like they say here in CT... Pics or it didn't happen.


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## CdnTrougher

This is the building.


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## Morning Wood

CdnTrougher said:


> I agree with you that using normal techniques would be utterly impossible when attempting a feat of this nature. But rest assured it was just the two of us and a little ingenuity.
> 
> Did I also mention that this piece had to go 25 ft up?
> 
> AB is Alberta.
> 
> I will eventually tell you how we did it but I want to see if anyone can deduce how we did first.


Ladder brackets. Just kept bumping them up one rung at a time?


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## CdnTrougher

Morning Wood said:


> Ladder brackets. Just kept bumping them up one rung at a time?


No. I will give you a hint though, you can use one piece of machinery. But only two guys.


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## stombaugh85

CdnTrougher said:


> No. I will give you a hint though, you can use one piece of machinery. But only two guys.


Raise the gutter machine up to fascia height. Easy breezy !! :clap:

What did I win ???????


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## CdnTrougher

stombaugh85 said:


> Raise the gutter machine up to fascia height. Easy breezy !! :clap:


Using what? Machine weighs probably 800 + lbs. Saying you could get it up that high, how do you control it coming out of the machine or place hangers? Or stop it from buckling after you spot out 25 ft? Lol.


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## Texas Wax

??????????
Run it off, and lift starting on one end to the other in 20' sections, using twine. Keeping the tailing end down so that the gutter stresses. Just enough to keep it solid. No different than carrying 40' sections by yourself. having gutter hangers/spreaders/stiffeners in place help too.
??????????????

LOL I saw a 5'2" dude hang a 40' section on a second story eave...Standing on the roof. LOL His helper (son) was afraid of heights LOL


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## stombaugh85

CdnTrougher said:


> Using what? Machine weighs probably 800 + lbs. Saying you could get it up that high, how do you control it coming out of the machine or place hangers? Or stop it from buckling after you spot out 25 ft? Lol.


You raised the machine with that end loader in the pic and shot that gutter on top the roof. Then you slid it down in place !! :clap:


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## CdnTrougher

You are so close but no. That loader only reaches 16 ft up. I also don't think we would be able to shoot it onto the tin roof and slide it into place without catastrophic failure. 

But very close.


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## stombaugh85

CdnTrougher said:


> You are so close but no. That loader only reaches 16 ft up. I also don't think we would be able to shoot it onto the tin roof and slide it into place without catastrophic failure.
> 
> But very close.


 raise the gutter machine with a scissor lift , one guy running the lift slowly and the other screwing in place as you go. :clap:


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## CdnTrougher

stombaugh85 said:


> raise the gutter machine with a scissor lift , one guy running the lift slowly and the other screwing in place as you go. :clap:


Scissor lift is correct but you can't screw until the piece is completely made. Lol 

There is so much more to it than just placing a machine into a scissor lift I assure you but it can be done.


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## stombaugh85

CdnTrougher said:


> Scissor lift is correct but you can't screw until the piece is completely made. Lol
> 
> View attachment 96518


Risky ! . . .As long as the site is real level. My luck I would get 3/4 the way and the lift would go into safety overide. Anything over 2 degree difrerence usually trips all the lifts I ever ran. The slightest slope at that height . This is something I would attempt thou. Good job!


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