# Sharkbites



## 3Kings Plumbing (Jan 2, 2008)

*sharkbites*

I mention to someone on here about a 4 unit apartment job I was doing. The H/O hired an GC to do the work (even the plumbing) But she fired him after seeing he wasn't doing a good job. This clown used pvc glue on what cpvc fittings he put together in the walls. I also counted 25 shark bite fittings through out his plumbing job. He used them to go from copper to cpvc. the part I loved the most about this clown, went from 3/4 copper reduced to 1/2 cpvc then 1/2 cpvc increased back up to 3/4 copper in about 6 places in the wide open areas.

I'm not the smartest man alive but I think this is why we have a Trade called PLUMBING and to do the trade we have to be STATE LICENSED


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

3Kings Plumbing said:


> I mention to someone on here about a 4 unit apartment job I was doing. The H/O hired an GC to do the work ...I also counted 25 shark bite fittings through out his plumbing job.


Those suckers are expensive. What a waste.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

FYI 

There code approved in the State of Oregon and can be concealed in walls.


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## JPF (Dec 20, 2006)

The only thing i have used them on is a totally exposed line......i also like to use the caps during demo on any supply lines for sinks/toilets, before install of new fixtures and valves. I couldn't sleep knowing there was some push on thing in an enclosed wall:no:.....:thumbsup:


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## ksensen (Apr 30, 2006)

I always carry a couple stocked on my truck. I typically use them for temporary work (which they are great for!) or repair work, especially copper lines where it is difficult/ impossible to sweat due to location or inability to fully drain the lines. Almost always this is in accesible areas but I have one at least 1 occasion used 1 in a concealed spot- really didn't sleep real well for a couple of days- they are code approved in our area. - On a side note they did completely save me (well building owner actually) thousands of dollars in repairs.- Situation was this: - piping from well to pressure tank ran under slab of a small office. piping was a material which I'm sure some of you old timers remember, but I can't even remember the name of anymore, Looks like 1" black plastic,(not poly) but it is just a little different. Pipe cracked about 2inches after it came through the slab. and was leaking. Went to supply house to find a coupling/adapter something. Supply house told me they didn't make the stuff anymore, didn't carry anything for it and that basically I was out of luck- thought they were just giving me a hard time, but they were dead serious. Their only suggestion was to try a 1" sharkbite. With no other options I gave it a try- it fit and 2+ years later seems to be holding up:thumbup:


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## Bjd (Dec 19, 2003)

I always will try the "Cutting Edge" products and have tried these fittings and to say they are a bad product is wrong.
They do work, and when installed right they do not leak.

If you do not like these dont use them, and you might as well drop the entire PVC line, as well as no hub, pex, compression, and flex lines, express press,and we will go back to the old way of lead and okum.

How many times have you either burnt a wall and or heard of guys setting home on fire from attempting to solder on extention stops?

I dont even bother to use them unless its spec for the project, just compression x compression works great.

BJD


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Bjd said:


> I always will try the "Cutting Edge" products and have tried these fittings and to say they are a bad product is wrong.
> They do work, and when installed right they do not leak.
> 
> If you do not like these dont use them, and you might as well drop the entire PVC line, as well as no hub, pex, compression, and flex lines, express press,and we will go back to the old way of lead and okum.
> ...


I use lead and oakum on a regular basis.


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## bknock10 (Apr 9, 2008)

mdshunk said:


> Sharkbites are for plumbers who don't know how to fix plumbing. :furious:


like everything else sharkbites were made for a reason, they should never be in your plumbing plan but that doesnt mean you will never need one.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Bjd said:


> I always will try the "Cutting Edge" products and have tried these fittings and to say they are a bad product is wrong.
> They do work, and when installed right they do not leak.
> 
> If you do not like these dont use them, and you might as well drop the entire PVC line, as well as no hub, pex, compression, and flex lines, express press,and we will go back to the old way of lead and okum.
> ...


Compression fittings Not allowed in concealed areas unless underground.And them ol boys burning crap need to improve thier skills dont they.


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## Herk (Aug 1, 2007)

Sharkbites are not "compression fittings," any more than Pro Press are. I have no problem with using them, and would far rather use one than burn a building down. (Not that I ever have . . .)

And like anything, there are proper ways to do it. There is a tool that will cut a bevel in pipe to keep from tearing the O-ring. It is also a depth gauge and you can use it to mark the pipe to assure full insertion.

I've never seen where they've been approved by the company for Polybutylene, and if someone knows otherwise, I'd like to know it, too.


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## arconstruction (Feb 21, 2008)

*Shark bites are for home owners*

Lol i cant believe my eyes , the death of a trade is in plain sight , between Pex and shark bites my 3 yr old can now be a plumber.... 

Thank god my town does not let you use them at all !!! , 

Shark bites can only be used in accessible areas and only by a non skilled HO or a fat lazy plumber my god be proud of you trade or ill have to start glueing my framing not nailing...lol:clap::clap::clap::clap:


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

i used 2- 1/2" couplings today tired every thing i could not to.....replaced a roman tub valve from below...... horrible spot i had to crawl on some shelves fit my self between a cluster of copper and pvc through a tiny hole couldnt even get a swazall in there to open the hole old fiberglass insulaton all over basiclly laid in it.....it was hot i was sweating like crazy im 6'3 225 and dont bend the way i needed to....i was able to fab up every thing but the last two connections.could of sweated it with a long hook and my torch taped to a stick and burnt my face so i opted for some shark bits......not a ideal fix bit it worked didnt leak and im home drinking beer


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## netucho (Mar 25, 2008)

*Sharkbite*

I Only use sharkbite for temporary aplications ie. I will be changing it soon while other trades get their stuff done. Say I have to cap a line, but will come back to tie that line somewhere. I don't know if I trust sharkbite fot permanent aplications.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

JamesNLA said:


> I confess I used one once. I enjoyed it at the time, but felt pretty bad the next morning. I took an extra long shower and drank my coffee slowly so I could ponder what I had done. Would I do it again? I don't know. It might have been a one time thing...but every now and than I find myself thinking about it. I mean, who's it really hurting anyway?


A friend of the family bought a custom home in Yosemite. The builder used a great electrician but cheaped out on the plumber who used Pex and Sharkbite, the small amount of sweating he did was sub-standard at best. I found a leak that had dripped for 5 years. Created carpet damage, black mold, dry rot, termite damge, etc. It was thousands to repair one leak. I would not trust the system for another 5 years but she is in no financial condition to repipe.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

skyhook said:


> A friend of the family bought a custom home in Yosemite. The builder used a great electrician but cheaped out on the plumber who used Pex and Sharkbite, the small amount of sweating he did was sub-standard at best. I found a leak that had dripped for 5 years. Created carpet damage, black mold, dry rot, termite damge, etc. It was thousands to repair one leak. I would not trust the system for another 5 years but she is in no financial condition to repipe.


 
Well....I bet a few beers that the leak was installer induced. It doesn't take long to see if a guy/crew knows what they are doing.

Going the shark bite way is by far much more expensive than just sweating pipe. There is an old timer around my parts that will do an entire home (either new or repipe) with shark bites. I passed by him on the way into my supply house one day, he had a 2'X2'x1' cardboard box LOADED with sharkbites. I did a double take and asked my counter guy, what he was fuking up this time. Told me he is piping a new spec house and doesn't solder anymore....unreal, but legal. 

I think SB are an alternative but it is just one of usually atlease a few. I have found a place for them in my jobs that I have more or less created a cookie cutter process for my tankless installs. I have not implimented it because while it would save the HO money on the job...if it lets go, it's my ass. And I am not willing to save a HO a few bucks and put myself at greater risk with a product that I do NOT fully trust. That said, I have done a few tests...rather crude but still a test. took a few SB's on a 1" pex line and filled it to my house pressure...bout 85. sealed it up qand beat the sheet out of it. I slammed them on the ground, beat it with a hammer (trying to get the brass to crack) and rolled it over and over again. Not one drop came out.Sure it cost me 60 bucks in fittings and a half hour I can never get back, but I have a little more confidence in the product after the fact. Now, I am no SB engineer, nor do I know what tests are better than others, but it was just my silly little attempt at making myself feel better about using them.

Just cause code says I canuse them and bury them inwall, doesn't mean it's a good idea.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

JamesNLA said:


> Well....I bet a few beers that the leak was installer induced. It doesn't take long to see if a guy/crew knows what they are doing.
> 
> Going the shark bite way is by far much more expensive than just sweating pipe. There is an old timer around my parts that will do an entire home (either new or repipe) with shark bites. I passed by him on the way into my supply house one day, he had a 2'X2'x1' cardboard box LOADED with sharkbites. I did a double take and asked my counter guy, what he was fuking up this time. Told me he is piping a new spec house and doesn't solder anymore....unreal, but legal.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Since the demise of the unions and apprentiship programs the quality of workmanship has been on a steady decline. All this new crap is cheaper because it's made in third world countries by people who work for pennies on our dollar. Copper is going through the roof so water heater supply lines are more expensive than the braided SS. Natually the adverage shopper is going with the least expense.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Ironic, this topic came to mind yesterday as I did a Delta single handle repair.*
*Not one piece of rubber I pulled out of that handle didn't turn my hands black.*
*The valve was 15 years old, which ain't so bad, because we all know how easy Delta's are to repair.*

*I imagine what happens to the O-rings in Shark bites within that time frame.*
*It's one thing to have a leaky rubber flapper, faucet washer, or valve...another altogether when it's on a water main under constant pressure in a ceiling or wall.*
*I've also noticed they leak when you put lateral/sideways pressure on the fittings. (I wouldn't suggest installing a valve anywhere near a sharbite...not without strong bracing at least.)*

*Makes me wonder, if they leak that easily with pressure..how much wear & corrosion does it take before those O-ring seals give up?*

*For the high cost per fitting, I'd just as soon use standard compression fittings and rest easier knowing the seal is mechanical instead of a less than 1/8" strand of rubber under continual pressure.*

*In 20 years, who knows?...maybe I'll be in the same category as the guys that moaned about PVC for drainage some 60 years ago.*

*Or maybe I won't be yanked into some huge class action suit like the guys that were involved with PB just a few years ago.*


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

The o-rings inside the sharkbites are the same type as the ones used on the tail piece of the sloan flush valves out there, and I seen some pretty old ones and they have not leaked from the day they were installed.

I see it this way as long as there is no movements along the seal of the o-ring it should last for years on end.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

SB makes ball valves though. I put a few in my house here. Every once in a while when I walk past my WH I will jiggle the pipes a bit. Trying to get it to leak. Nothing so far.

I will use them for transitions. Which reminds me... you guys who are totally against this type of fitting... how do you transition from a 1/2 OD PB pipe to PEX or whatever you are connecting to? I cannot find? I use a plastic SB type fitting. Makes me cringe like crazy but unless I have a better option I have no choice. I console myself that at least it's better than the crap I am replacing.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

RTI has a special fitting that goes from PB to pex, crimp it on and your ready.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

For 1/2 OD Ron?

If so, where can I find them?

I don't even own a 3/8" crimper but would buy one if I needed to. (If I ever get back into service big time in this area I will have to get one. Lots of 3/8" PEX around here. Ugh!)


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

There made for 1/2" and 3/4" slips into pb/quest pipe, that gray stuff thats out there.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Right. And I stock 4 of each of those sizes in my PEX bucket. Get them from my local supply house or Barnett.

But I keep running into 3/8" (1/2" OD) PB on mobile homes. That's where I am using the SB type fittings. There used to be a 3/8" PB x PEX adapter like you showed on the market. Can't find any though.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Don't think there is a transition fitting for 3/8", I always take it back to where the 1/2" begins, most MH here 1/2" stubs to just under the sinks, on real old MH you find 3/8.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> The o-rings inside the sharkbites are the same type as the ones used on the tail piece of the sloan flush valves out there, and I seen some pretty old ones and they have not leaked from the day they were installed.
> 
> I see it this way as long as there is no movements along the seal of the o-ring it should last for years on end.


*Heck, I'll humbly go as far as to say you're prolly right.*
*But when Sharkbites cost about the same as a compression fitting, I'd just as soon take the extra minute to tighten and use compression if I don't wanna solder, or lines are wet.*
*Water treatment chemicals & mineral content is what makes or breaks the way it reacts with rubber, seeing that some O-rings hold up doesn't mean they all will.*

*If the Sloan valve were to leak, it's not likely to damage anything major where there are usually tiled floors with floor drains where they are, if a coupling or tee in a ceiling leak...thats a whole new ballgame.*


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

I agree with you GP, I'm not a fan of o-ring seals on a pressure line, as far as the pro-press system it counts on an o-ring for the seal, and depends on the compressing of the copper pipe and fitting to keep it movement free, as with all systems, pro-press is not time proven, there maybe a CLS against this down the line, we just never know what will happen.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> The o-rings inside the sharkbites are the same type as the ones used on the tail piece of the sloan flush valves out there, and I seen some pretty old ones and they have not leaked from the day they were installed.
> 
> I see it this way as long as there is no movements along the seal of the o-ring it should last for years on end.


Depends on the chlorine content of the water as to the life of any rubber part, chlorine rots rubber quite well. A lot of water heaters get replaced in Chicago because people thought the tank was leaking, when it was actually the rubber washers in the flex lines they used to connect it that were the culprit.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Depends on the chlorine content of the water as to the life of any rubber part, chlorine rots rubber quite well. A lot of water heaters get replaced in Chicago because people thought the tank was leaking, when it was actually the rubber washers in the flex lines they used to connect it that were the culprit.


:laughing::clap::w00t:

*Code here...NO flexies on water...unless yer the happy homeowner doing what Harry Home Depot suggests.*


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> :laughing::clap::w00t:
> 
> *Code here...NO flexies on water...unless yer the happy homeowner doing what Harry Home Depot suggests.*


Why not?

I suppose no flexible gas supplies either? (I refuse to hard pipe gas connections unless I am dealing with the big stuff.)


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

22rifle said:


> Why not?
> 
> I suppose no flexible gas supplies either? (I refuse to hard pipe gas connections unless I am dealing with the big stuff.)


*I just realized how rediculous that looks...rephrased...no flexies on water heaters - gas or water. tipping hazard.*

*The usual faucet feeds, toilets, gas stoves, dryers are fine - no more than 36".*
*Anti-tips are required on stoves.*


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *I just realized how rediculous that looks...rephrased...no flexies on water heaters - gas or water. tipping hazard.*
> 
> *The usual faucet feeds, toilets, gas stoves, dryers are fine - no more than 36".*
> *Anti-tips are required on stoves.*


Here's how I look at it. Say we ban all flex connectors on WHs. Now we are depending on a gas line and a water line to support the unit. That scares me a lot more than a flex line does.

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to require a WH restraint than to ban flex supplies?

(I know you have to do what you have to do. I am just talking here.)


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

22rifle said:


> Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to require a WH restraint than to ban flex supplies?


Code required here on all tanked water heaters.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

22rifle said:


> Here's how I look at it. Say we ban all flex connectors on WHs. Now we are depending on a gas line and a water line to support the unit. That scares me a lot more than a flex line does.
> 
> Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to require a WH restraint than to ban flex supplies?
> 
> (I know you have to do what you have to do. I am just talking here.)


Some places require both.

I really don't have a problem hard piping water heaters, but I also rarely have to put them in.


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Code required here on all tanked water heaters.


Do you think code should require it?

I kinda do but am open to opposing thoughts.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

22rifle said:


> Do you think code should require it?
> 
> I kinda do but am open to opposing thoughts.


*In Cali, I wouldn't install a heater without restraints or flexies for the obvious reason....heck, I'd use the longest flexies I could.*

*Put to some thought, if a five year old decides to climb a 30 or 40 gal, the hard pipe would at least help keep it from tipping...more so than flexies.*

*Do I think restraints a good idea, sure.*

*I'd certainly get some odd looks from inspectors on new installs, not to mention the fact that there are no local products made for that purpose here that I know of.*


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

If your in a EQ zone, sure it's required, and should be, I think it should be required under all codes IMO.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

Every single tanked heater I have done has been strapped. Straps must be anchored into studs. The straps are NOT to be tightened to the point where the straps are very taught. I installem them just past finger tight as I don't want to have my straps interfering with natural expansion. That said, these straps have made me bloody on more than one occasion. I am no HVAC guy, nor am I very good with sheet metal. I don't wear gloves when I work (unless I am clearing lines) and I have sliced my paws up. I have found it's a good idea to not be around me when this happends as I have a pretty foul mouth and bad attitude when I cut myself.


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