# We've all been getting shocked by 170 vac



## RH-Electric (Jan 16, 2010)

All electricians know that 120 volts is the RMS voltage and that the peak voltage is actually 170 volts. I was thinking about this and it occurred to me that when you get shocked, your body does not take the square of the voltage, determine the mean voltage and adjust your pain response accordingly. No, your body feels the peak voltage.

Consider this, if I hit you with a baseball bat with 100 pounds of force, then again with 75 pounds and again with 50 pounds of force, does your body make a calculation that determines the mean force and create the appropriate sized bruise? No, of course not.

So, from now on, let's not downplay any electrical shocks we receive, let's be honest and say we've been shocked with 170 volts. if you find yourself part of a 240 volt circuit, you can now say you've received a 340 volt shock.

This concludes today's tailgate safety meeting, now back to work! :thumbsup:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

I was unaware that we were supposed to measure our shorts. 

120? 177? 220? 380? How about small, medium and large. That's probably all the accuracy we need.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

thom said:


> ...I was unaware that we were supposed to measure our shorts..., how about small, medium and large. That's probably all the accuracy we need.


Well some guys on this board may take the next size up.:whistling


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

169.705627484 volts to be precise.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Just stop touching live wires and you won't get shocked.....


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Just stop touching live wires and you won't get shocked.....


What about static electricity and lightning?


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

I hate getting Zaped! Hate it...............Dam it Hurt's.

The Worst time was nailing a Starter strip for Alum Siding, my boss nailed a Dryer 220 line - I saw a flash then found myself several feet from the House. Crap That Sucked!


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

RH-Electric said:


> Consider this, if I hit you with a baseball bat with 100 pounds of force, then again with 75 pounds and again with 50 pounds of force, does your body make a calculation that determines the mean force and create the appropriate sized bruise?


First thing is that you'd better make that 100 pounder a strategic one, or you ain't gonna get a chance for the others. :boxing: :laughing:

Consider this, my hands are so leatherized from construction work that I can grab a pair of wires carrying 120V RMS and have to squeeze to get a tickle. So my "live" skin actually sees LESS voltage. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> ..........Consider this, my hands are so leatherized from construction work that I can grab a pair of wires carrying 120V RMS and have to squeeze to get a tickle. So my "live" skin actually sees LESS voltage. :thumbsup:



Your leathery hands still 'see' the same 120 vrms. They actually _conduct less amps_.

But don't feel bad..... every 12-year old knows this.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Your leathery hands still 'see' the same 120 vrms. They actually _conduct less amps_.


The leather sees it, but as I said, the live cells/nerves--which are what really matter--see less due to the voltage drop across the resistance of the calluses.

12 year old salute: ------------> :001_tongue:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> What about static electricity and lightning?


Ok then shocked by 170...


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> The leather sees it, but as I said, the live cells/nerves--which are what really matter--see less due to the voltage drop across the resistance of the calluses.
> 
> 12 year old salute: ------------> :001_tongue:


Yeah, if you consider _each individual cell _a small load (and all those individual loads are in series) on the circuit, then yes each cell only sees a small portion of that 120vrms, divided up as per Ohm's Law.

OTOH, I don't think you'll say you install 119.4-volt lamps (as opposed to 120v) in your fixtures because the circuit conductors are indeed small loads which creates 3 loads in series.

Of course, the 12-year old will still know this. :clap:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Yeah, if you consider _each individual cell _a small load (and all those individual loads are in series) on the circuit, then yes each cell only sees a small portion of that 120vrms, divided up as per Ohm's Law.


No, not at all. I'm considering the entire agglomeration of dead leather-cells as a resistive layer which isn't truly a part of my living body. A pair of gloves, as it were.

The only meaningful part of the voltage and current (to me) is what makes it past the gloves. Unless of course, there's enough to turn the gloves to charcoal, in which case it's doubtful I'll be willing or able to continue with this frivolous debate.

I believe a 12 year old might be able to understand that. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> No, not at all. I'm considering the entire agglomeration of dead leather-cells as a resistive layer which isn't truly a part of my living body. A pair of gloves, as it were.
> 
> The only meaningful part of the voltage and current (to me) is what makes it past the gloves. Unless of course, there's enough to turn the gloves to charcoal, in which case it's doubtful I'll be willing or able to continue with this frivolous debate.
> 
> I believe a 12 year old might be able to understand that. :laughing:


EVERY cell, whether living or dead, is a load on the circuit.

Even _11-year-olds_ know that. :thumbup:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> EVERY cell, whether living or dead, is a load on the circuit.


Ah, but the thread isn't about getting loaded. Even a 10 year old could tell that from the OP. :no:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Ah, but the thread isn't about getting loaded. Even a 10 year old could tell that from the OP. :no:


You are correct. It's about _being_ a load, whether one or many. 9-year-olds can comprehend that much.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

:laughing:

Say goodnight, Dick. :thumbsup:


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## RH-Electric (Jan 16, 2010)

Good night, Dick.


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

As an apprentice out in Cali, I reached into a 4sq box with the nose of my wire strippers in an effort to single out a circuit and pull it from the box for some reason or another. 

It was at a hospital remodel and voltage was 277 

I got lit up pretty well, those little teeth on the nose of my Kline strippers bit right through the insulation :bangin:


So with this enlightenment of voltages, what did I get zapped with?

I felt like a MILLION bucks after getting zapped, felt like I had been pumped with a straight shot of adrenalin. I was "charged" for about 30 min. But my Foreman sure **** his pants, it had been his recommendation to check the box, and I had agreed that I knew it was live.

Talk about blind leading blind:w00t:



Edit- --- I was working for Berg Electric at the time.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Aaron Berk said:


> ..............So with this enlightenment of voltages, what did I get zapped with?..............


391.74 volts (peak).


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I was caught up on 230v over in England once for about 10 seconds. Burnt the crap out of my wrist. I leaned over into a washing machine and got a dead short between the live and negative and could not move away from it. Felt the buzz real good that day. Lucky I'm not dead but I had the machine tilted up on rear legs and machine feel back towards me and I then disconnected from the cables. Worse feeling was being fully aware what was going on but not being able to move. Worse feeling ever. I then grabbed my 6 cell mag light and smashed my boss around his head for turning the power on whilst I was working on the machine. Twat :furious:


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## rotarex (Mar 31, 2008)

The worst shock is by salt water rock holding tank, I been shock many times by 110 and I giggle, the same 110 in salt water from a broken circulation pump feels like some one ran over your hand with a truck


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

For the record, here's the RMS and Peak voltage of common US systems.

RMS..... Peak
120.....169.71
208.....294.16
240.....339.41
277.....391.74
480.....678.82
600.....848.53


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## TimPa (Jan 26, 2010)

not to be a smart a$$, but zero volts happens twice a cycle as well, just as often as peak. i've always considered the rms to be the ac potential most equal to it's dc counterpart in the ability to do work (power).

you have raised an interesting discussion!


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

TimPa said:


> not to be a smart a$$, but zero volts happens twice a cycle as well, just as often as peak.


So on average, we're getting shocked with zero voltage. :jester:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> So on average, we're getting shocked with zero voltage. :jester:


Yep. :thumbsup:


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## TimPa (Jan 26, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> So on average, we're getting shocked with zero voltage. :jester:


actually, _average_ is more like 108.1 vac. (play on words there)


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

That's only the average of half a cycle. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

TimPa said:


> actually, _average_ is more like 108.1 vac. (play on words there)


Nope. Average all the voltages on a sine wave and you end up with 0 volts.


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## TimPa (Jan 26, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Nope. Average all the voltages on a sine wave and you end up with 0 volts.


i was referring to rectified full wave, unfiltered, average = peak x .637. i didn't think it was very funny either (play on words there).


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

TimPa said:


> i was referring to rectified full wave, unfiltered, average = peak x .637. i didn't think it was very funny either (play on words there).


Rarely do electricians deal with rectified AC systems, though.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Rarely do electricians deal with rectified AC systems, though.


That's just because once I've gone over it, there's no further need to call an electrician. It's been rectified. :whistling


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## PacificElectric (Aug 27, 2010)

well I laugh at 120,170,270,340 etc... I have leatherhands too and don't feel too much from the zap. 
What does bother me though is leaving strips of skin on edges of panels cans and metal boxes and then a bloody trail all over the office desk underneath me because I didn't realize I was bleeding.
It makes me feel so bad when I see the office people at the verge of passing out after seeing a little blood.....


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

PacificElectric said:


> It makes me feel so bad when I see the office people at the verge of passing out after seeing a little blood.....


I tell them "We don't just work for our clients, we _bleed_ for them!"

Usually gets a chuckle.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> I tell them "We don't just work for our clients, we _bleed_ for them!"
> 
> Usually gets a chuckle.



I always say, "If you ain't bleeding, you ain't working!"


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