# Whats with some guys?



## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

rbsremodeling said:


> I understand if you disagree with how I roll. Threads like these are not about agreeing but simply stating a point of view..
> 
> I strive to run my business a certain way and provide my customer with a certain level of service..
> 
> ...


It is the difference of Nordstrom or Ross they both have clothes, but the difference in service is unquestioning.


----------



## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Good subject.
> 
> Here is my take. I recently got an offer to subcontract from another roofing contractor who has too much work to handle. I accepted, got my regular prices and am doing 2-3 jobs per week for him now. When I am on his jobs, I hand out his cards and have his company sign in the yard.
> 
> ...


Same here. I used to have 4-5 sets of signs for my trucks.:thumbup:


----------



## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

I think a lot of this has to do with your trade as well. I am a carpenter; I can do doors, trim, crown, hardwood floors, cabinets, some framing. The list goes on. Most of the GC’s I work for are also carpenters. And I am better than a lot of them with finish work. They are framers, and I do finish work. My base and crown is cleaner and tighter, and I am faster than they are. 

However in this market, almost without fail all GC’s are doing their own millwork, they need the work, So do I but I have enough respect to walk in a house, and do what I am asked without sticking my nose in there business, this keeps us busy and I get a lot of loyalty. They have seen my work they know I can do it faster and cheaper, and cleaner. But if they will give me the cabinets I am happy, if they get busier, or they get really ornate work I will knock out the trim and handrail for them, if not I just build my cabinets. It is there job; it is there advertising and time. I respect that.

It seems to me like a lot of contractors think that this 1 job will make them rich, It wont, going to work every day and keeping the schedule full will.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

A guy I did a lot of business with, truss builder, decided there was nothing wrong with critiquing my install to the homeowner, who should not have contacted him directly anyway. 

I told the HO that cutting trusses was not acceptable...for a proposed stairway later....and not believing me, contacted the truss guy, who did not feel like he should talk to me before meeting the client at the new home. 

Needless to say, to date, the business the truss builder has lost is over 50k, and there is nothing he can do to get me back as a customer. 

Relationships with GC's are based on respect...mutual respect, and doing the right thing.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

This same thing encompasses other business relationships as well. A few years ago, I helped my mechanic build an addition on his house. The contract had everything called out, but we had an understanding that he would take care of a few items as he also knew some friends in the trades. Was working ok, til we were ready for drywall and we had a miscommunication about how the plumbing drains were run. The plumber was a friend of his, but was technically working for me. He did everything the way we discussed it and it passed inspection. Anyhow, the homeowner didn't like how it was done and withheld a portion of the money. Wasn't enough to justify pursuing in court, but I no longer take my 4 vehicles there. His friend, the plumber no longer takes his there either. So he has essentially lost thousands in business over a few hundred he saved.


----------



## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So if a customer asks me for a card, I have to ask the GC for _permission_? What am I, 5 years old?
> 
> Sorry... my company name, phone number & web site are slobbered all over my truck. You gonna tell me to take the vinyl off too?


Now, I'm curious. 

Do you charge a homeowner the same rate as you charge your GC?


----------



## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

Heritage said:


> "If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense (cents)"
> 
> The relationship between a Sub & GC revolves around dollars and sense. It could be a very symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship.
> 
> ...


*The HO is not your client, I AM your client.*

I think that pretty much sums up the discussion!


----------



## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So if I was your elec sub, and the HO called me to install a circuit for a big-screen TV..............?



I'd want you to say "...Great Mrs Jones. The way you'll get your best price and service will be to contact Jim and have him write up the service order. We'll co-ordinate our schedules and we'll get this thing taken care of for you right away. Do you have Jim's number handy, if not, I'll get it for you". 

If she says, "I was hoping to go direct to you to save money", you could say "Mrs Jones, you really won't be paying any more if you go through Jim. He does so much business with our firm that we pass on an incredible volume discount. Essentially, you will receive the same price if I dealt with you directly, or you went through Jim and I'd like to keep Jim in the loop on this because thats how we do business in our group. Jim takes care of the paperwork, permits, sales, design, etc...we do the work. It just works out bes that way". 

480Sparky, looking at this approach....do you see how this could solidify your construction group as the superior group to deal when it comes to remodeling? Can you see that you are building up the GC to be an important element in your business, even though it's "just a circuit for a television". The goal isn't to sell one circuit, it's to create the lifelong relationship with that GC, with ALL OF HIS CLIENTS. It's even more powerful if you get a call from someone that you did five years ago. If you exhibit that relationship, combined with that loyalty, the clients will think "I'm working with the greatest construction group in the entire state. No one stays as tight as these guys!"


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

jimAKAblue said:


> .............. He does so much business with our firm that we pass on an incredible volume discount. ...........


But that's not how rbs operates.



rbsremodeling said:


> Why would you have to cut your price for me??
> 
> Give me your quote and I do the rest, I don't need price cuts or favors your price is what it is..........


Do you really think the homeowner is dumb enough to think that hiring a GC just to add a circuit is gonna save 'em money? Besides, no GCs here do any paperwork for this other than billing. No pulling permits, no sales for a stinking circuit, no design as that would be my territory.......

What value are you adding?


----------



## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> But that's not how rbs operates.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's going to be hard for you to understand the value that a GC offer's their clients if you won't look at the bigger picture. 

Right now, I'm a GC. I happen to specialize in roofing and the restoration that accompanies that in hail storm ravaged areas. I'm also a roofing subcontractor for other GCs who aren't specialty contractors. I give the GC's a healthy discount. They essentially can make a nice chunk of change on my work. 

I look at it this way. I know the costs and efforts associated with GCing. When I'm out there pricing to the homeowners, I sell at retail. When I sell to a GC, I sell at wholesale. He sells my services at retail...the same price that I would. 

Why would I drop my price for the GC? Or, depending on how you look at it; why would I raise my prices for a homeowner? Its a simple matter of economics. I don't need to "sell" my services to the GC. He's a repeat customer, worthy of volume pricing, and front of the line service. He's out there SELLING MY COMPANY! Why wouldn't I give him a big reward.....I reward ALL my salespeople!

Why would I charge more to the homeowner? Well...each sales appointment takes me 3 hours.....and that's if I lose the sale. I'll spend more time on the successful sales. I might need 3 opportunities for one sale. The closing ratios are much different for wholesale and retail opportunities. Then, there is the advertising budget. I don't need one for the GC....he's a customer for life.

No one "owns" anyone but basic business synergy is important and it can be either enhanced or destroyed with each client encounter. As a sub, you can build up your GC's and be willing to acknowledge their worth, or you can view them as a useless "middleman" and wonder "...what value do they add?". 

I know which type of sub I like to work with and I know what type of sub I am.


----------



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I understand what sparky is saying and for an electrician, I see no issue why a GC would have a problem if after the big job was done, the homeowner hired him back to do some additional electrical work if that is all that was being done. this happens all the time to me and it's not a big deal, if anything it's less trips and paperwork for me to deal with, why run the cash through my business and waste my time. I'd rather have the customer call the electrician or plumber directly if they have addition work once my company is done with whatever we are doing. I get asked all the time, do you think your electrician can put in some dimmers for us upstairs or in my kids rooms or whatever. I give them his card or number and say go ahead and call him, he'll bill you directly. Saves me time and running around and I just made money on their job, I don't need to gouge them by marking up an electricians bill on a small job like that.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

*Let's crank it up a notch.*

OK, so you built a $4mil house for Joe and Jane Homeowner a few years back. This morning, Joe calls you up and says he has a light out. You naturally respond with something like, "Oh, gee, sorry about that. Let me call Sparky and see when he can get out there and take care of it."

Joe says, "No, this isn't at the house. It's at the store. One of the parking lot lights doesn't work."



Or, Joe tells you they have a jog switch on a screw-driven auger at the plant that times out too early. The first-shift maintenance crew looked at it, but they can't troubleshoot the VFDs at a component level. While it still works, it takes extra time for someone to hit the switch manually to complete the process step, which slows production down and ultimately costs money. Joe wants to know if your electrician can get it back up and running properly.




Now go earn your pay.


----------



## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Just curious, so I am throwing out a few questions before I weigh in:

1. For the guys that do not operate like rbs - how much of your business is from GC's and how much is from Joe Homeowner?

2. For the subs - if you do offer a volume discount, and want to share, how much is it (i.e. 20% off, 5%, etc)?


----------



## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

I believe RBS is talking about his clientele, not one-time or first time customers. These are repeat customers that continually pour money into their homes and property that look to him to manage their ideas & needs. This is not the same as doing a one-time re-roof or a service call.

So RBS....good for you. You have a niche in your area and you have devoted yourself to a family of customers. 
DC / Maryland area has a lot of over-wealthy hoity toitys that need that high-end Property Management Nurturing that you are providing. 

Trust me...not everyone can do it.:no:


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

rbsremodeling said:


> I agree.
> 
> My contention is if I hire someone to work for me on a project, I expect them to not hand out their cards or angle for work..
> 
> ...





480sparky said:


> So if I was your elec sub, and the HO called me to install a circuit for a big-screen TV..............?





rbsremodeling said:


> Somebody is getting their ass kicked for not informing me..





480sparky said:


> Why should I inform you?





rbsremodeling said:


> I want to be informed because I ultimately want control of the interaction my clients have from me and my subs..
> 
> You may think it is control issue, but like I said I develop relationships that grow over time with my homeowners and I nurture them.
> 
> ...





480sparky said:


> Are you saying now YOU must be the one to supply them the TV, and sub a low-volt sub to install the HDMI and RG6, and contract with me to install the circuit? You want to charge them for your hiring an interior designer to tell us where to mount the TV?
> 
> How about the furniture they're getting for the family room in the basement? You want your cut of that deal too?





rbsremodeling said:


> Yes everything.. I position myself to offer all of that.. The service may or may not have a mark up on it. That depends on a few factors, but yest the whole shebang is mine..
> 
> I had a guy pay me to schedule carpet being installed in his house..





CookeCarpentry said:


> Just curious, so I am throwing out a few questions before I weigh in:
> 
> 1. For the guys that do not operate like rbs - how much of your business is from GC's and how much is from Joe Homeowner?
> 
> 2. For the subs - if you do offer a volume discount, and want to share, how much is it (i.e. 20% off, 5%, etc)?


It wouldn't be a volume discount. It would be an advertising discount. Because he knows you and your work you can advertise less. You no longer need to convince the client that you are the right person for the job. The GC says I have an electrician to do the work. If they trust the GC then you are a shoe in. All you have to do is show up. In my book, you don't have to make the sale, you didn't need to have an advertisement and you don't have to deal with the client, just the GC. So there are three things that would normally cost you money that can be taken out of the equation. The burden is on the GC. And as long as he does his part it is worth it

The problem comes when you have to tale with the client (in detail, wasting your time) about little things like what appliance or fixture they should use. The GC should have this covered and all you should be doing is the task at hand.

So, essentially you are not giving the GC a discount. He is doing some of the work you would normally have to do.


----------



## Itrimit (Aug 28, 2013)

480sparky said:


> OK, so you built a $4mil house for Joe and Jane Homeowner a few years back. This morning, Joe calls you up and says he has a light out. You naturally respond with something like, "Oh, gee, sorry about that. Let me call Sparky and see when he can get out there and take care of it."
> 
> Joe says, "No, this isn't at the house. It's at the store. One of the parking lot lights doesn't work."
> 
> ...



Boy talk about grasping at straws. I fully expect your next post to have something to do with rewiring the international space station.


----------



## BFD (Jan 31, 2014)

Holy post from the dead. Good read though. The mentality of some people is amazing.


----------



## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Itrimit said:


> Boy talk about grasping at straws. I fully expect your next post to have something to do with rewiring the international space station.


A little uncalled for since you have zero clue as to the massive width of knowledge Ken has.

Bringing up a nearly 4 year old thread says you are just browsing around with not much else to do except try a little trolling and see who bites.


----------

