# Sticky  Dust-Free Remodeling



## Journeyman T

I'm interested in any tricks (other than the obvious) for minimizing dust when remodeling. Does anybody have some?


----------



## dkillianjr

I usually plastic off the area and cover all floors inside if they are not getting replaced and cover the floors I have to walk on through the house. No zip wall yet, just masking tape and plastic lol. I also use a box fan to create a air pull out a window. And a good jobsite clean up with a shop vac during and at the end of the day. Ridged does make a little jobsite air cleaner, I have never used it so I don't know how it works, but if nothing else it makes you look good to the HO. 


Dave


----------



## neolitic

dkillianjr said:


> Ridged does make a little jobsite air cleaner, I have never used it so I don't know how it works, but if nothing else it makes you look good to the HO. Dave


Jet and DeWalt have them too.
I'm thinking about one for the near future.
I use some off-brand "third hand" type poles I got for @$19.
Saves a lot of time and tape with visqueen barriers.

Anyone got something really good for carpeted stairs?


----------



## frbsns

Zip-Walls are the only way to go. They are expensive about $600 a piece, but you can get them on e-bay sometimes for cheap. If you have a high-end customer that can get you more work or referralls and want to impress them, zip-walls are the only way to go. Also, if you have subs, make them clean-up everyday. My crews vacuum the site and get rid of the garbage every day.


----------



## bujaly

frbsns said:


> Zip-Walls are the only way to go. They are expensive about $600 a piece, but you can get them on e-bay sometimes for cheap. If you have a high-end customer that can get you more work or referralls and want to impress them, zip-walls are the only way to go. Also, if you have subs, make them clean-up everyday. My crews vacuum the site and get rid of the garbage every day.


Zip-walls??? I can't find that under an internet or Ebay search...
Is there a brand specific name or...


----------



## wireless

neolitic said:


> Jet and DeWalt have them too.
> I'm thinking about one for the near future.
> I use some off-brand "third hand" type poles I got for @$19.
> Saves a lot of time and tape with visqueen barriers.
> 
> Anyone got something really good for carpeted stairs?


I have bought this seran wrap type of plastic which sticks to the steps.


----------



## Tin Cup

We use an "air scrubber" that I own from doing mold remediation. Works great to creat positive or negative air pressure, has large flexible hoses to run out of windows, openings, etc. Kinda costly at $1500 but mine has paid for itself many times over. We still need to seal off areas with plastic but if you can control the air movement, you've won the biggest battle.

Also, we always use my nice powerfull triple filtered Hepa Vac, never a plain old shop vac. most shop vacs with dirty used filters vent out alot of small particles which eventually settle. $400-$500 for it but again has paid for itself many times over.

Most customers are impressed when we take the time to control the dust with this simple equipment. Even more impressed when we wear footies over our shoes.

Sunbelt rents this equipment, if you want a quick education check out their catalogue, kinda pricy to rent pricy when they add the new filters, that's why i just bought them. you can buy the "Zipwalls" from them also. Before you put the zipper on the plastic, don't forget to wipe the plastic with an alcohol wipe first so it will stick well.

Good luck,

Tin Cup


----------



## neolitic

wireless said:


> I have bought this seran wrap type of plastic which sticks to the steps.


That stuff is okay for a day or two,
Id like to find something that holds up for a second floor bath gut!
10-20 trips a day and not need to be replaced every day.
'Course I'd like Michelle Pfeiffer to come tuck me in tonite too. :thumbup:


----------



## Cole

bujaly said:


> Zip-walls??? I can't find that under an internet or Ebay search...
> Is there a brand specific name or...


http://www.zipwall.com/

IMHO - Every Remodeler Needs This


----------



## send_it_all

Carpet mask will work ok on stairs, but I usually vacuum the stairs really good first, then take my time putting the carpet mask down so as to tuck it into the corners really well.


----------



## neolitic

send_it_all said:


> Carpet mask will work ok on stairs, but I usually vacuum the stairs really good first, then take my time putting the carpet mask down so as to tuck it into the corners really well.


This stuff?
http://www.polytak.com/carpet_mask.shtml
Might be me but it was too narrow,
stuff got under it, and it moved around a lot.
Thinking about using regular vinyl runner, and holding it
with crown staples thru plastic caps?
(Like off of felt nails)


----------



## kevjob

We use the carpet mask no problem with demo days just replace after demo then after drywall. 

Trask makes the same poles with no plastic parts for 30.00 per pole I picked them up and use them every day and they can also be a third hand


----------



## fez-head

We bought our zip wall set and bag from Sherman Williams and they matched the internet price that I found online. It is well worth the money and looks impressive as well.

Ours proved its value when we had to cut in a 2'x2' projection window through a 12" block wall in the projection room of a movie theater. There where 12 movie projectors running along with all of the computers for high definition that go with them. As you can imagine dust was not an option on this one.

The Zip Wall, Rigid air cleaner and a large Shop Vac outside the barrier did the job. We had to cut for 4 minutes and then wait for the dust to clear for another 5 minutes. One of those air scrubbers sure would have been nice but we made due.


----------



## Tin Cup

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> We bought our zip wall set and bag from Sherman Williams and they matched the internet price that I found online. It is well worth the money and looks impressive as well.
> 
> Ours proved its value when we had to cut in a 2'x2' projection window through a 12" block wall in the projection room of a movie theater. There where 12 movie projectors running along with all of the computers for high definition that go with them. As you can imagine dust was not an option on this one.
> 
> The Zip Wall, Rigid air cleaner and a large Shop Vac outside the barrier did the job. We had to cut for 4 minutes and then wait for the dust to clear for another 5 minutes. One of those air scrubbers sure would have been nice but we made due.


 
Good idea with the shop vac outside the important zone. you not only vented the vac outside you also created a little negative pressure inside your work area. i've done that when i could to save my hepa filters on large dusty jobs. its all about controlling the air pressure. simple but sometimes not easy.

Ever tried a "grab bag" for a job like you mentioned. Another trick from mold inspections. tape the grab bag to the wall with your tools inside, reach in with the gloves, do the work, seal it back up, close up the grab bag & all done. We used them when inspecting a medical facility once. Everybody was impressed even me.

I just saw my local big orange home improvement center selling a zipwall, i think it was in the plumbing section ???

Tin Cup


----------



## fez-head

I learned about negative pressure real quick when dust came billowing out of every small nook and cranny at first  Never heard of the grab bag but sounds like a good idea. 

We use a modified 7" grinder with a 12" diamond blade (with custom made blade guard) for masonry wall cutting. That thing gets pretty squirrelly sometimes and hard to hang on to - so it would probably jump out and eat up my grab bag and a few fingers with it


----------



## neolitic

Any one ever use this stuff?
http://www.dropcloth.com/cleanandsafe2a.html


----------



## Cole

neolitic said:


> Any one ever use this stuff?
> http://www.dropcloth.com/cleanandsafe2a.html


That looks pretty good.

I ordered a sample.


----------



## neolitic

Cole said:


> That looks pretty good.
> I ordered a sample.


Me too!
They're gonna think business is on the up-tick:laughing:


----------



## neolitic

Talk about timely.....
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...&pricetype=S&categoryname=MISCELLANEOUS JACKS
At that price I'm gonna add to the collection. 
I've had 4 of them for 5 years now, 
and they're doing just fine thank you.


----------



## Milhaus

Zipwalls are absolutely necessary. We get the four pack for around $250 each around here. I've used the carpet runners as well. Which I think are absolutely necessary as well. We slowly can change the mentality that remodeling is a rotten experience by taking these steps. 
Good ideas on creating negative airspace. 

mark


----------



## NC-SC GC

Zip Walls are $75.00 each and they are sold in a set of two for $150.00, you can buy a knock off style at Harbor Freight for $10.00 each.



frbsns said:


> Zip-Walls are the only way to go. They are expensive about $600 a piece, but you can get them on e-bay sometimes for cheap. If you have a high-end customer that can get you more work or referralls and want to impress them, zip-walls are the only way to go. Also, if you have subs, make them clean-up everyday. My crews vacuum the site and get rid of the garbage every day.


----------



## Tin Cup

used my air scrubber in a basement this week to Drylock the block. fumes were bad where we were working but homeowners just upstairs didn't smell any odor. ran the hose outside the basement window, created negative air pressure in the basement. besides using it for dustfree working, the odor venting is just a bonus.

Tin Cup


----------



## fez-head

Tin Cup said:


> used my air scrubber in a basement this week to Drylock the block. fumes were bad where we were working but homeowners just upstairs didn't smell any odor. ran the hose outside the basement window, created negative air pressure in the basement. besides using it for dustfree working, the odor venting is just a bonus.
> 
> Tin Cup


I'm going to have to get one of those. :thumbsup:


----------



## Tin Cup

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> I'm going to have to get one of those. :thumbsup:


 
I've used mine so many times for dust and odor. it really impresses customers. i didn't use it on Monday because i didn't realize how much mold/cat urine was in this basement. big mistake, we had a tough time and the homeowner caught within minutes of us getting into the cat urine. so today i kept asking if they could smell the drylock. not a bit. mine is 6yr old model from Abatement Technologies. looks like the new models are slick.

http://www.abatement.com/healthcare/construction_renov.htm

Tin Cup


----------



## Cole

NC-SC said:


> Zip Walls are $75.00 each and they are sold in a set of two for $150.00, you can buy a knock off style at Harbor Freight for $10.00 each.


Do they work the same way that the zip walls work?

I already have 4 sets of the zip walls and would like to get some more.


----------



## neolitic

Cole said:


> Do they work the same way that the zip walls work?
> I already have 4 sets of the zip walls and would like to get some more.


They do everything I would expect.
I got four from Wholesale Tool
5 years ago and use 'em for all kinds of stuff.
Harbor freight ones look just alike except for the color.
They aren't long enough for a 10' ceiling though.
I can figure a lot of work arounds for the $'s.


----------



## Brock

Man this post is making me think. For 23 years I have relied on impecable craftmanship and outrages customer service yet I don't go to any of these extremes to control construction dust. Shop vac and broom period...period. I let them know up front that they will need to change hvac filters and have their home detailed like their car after we finish, but because of this thread I think I might try some of this over the top remediation stuff. Smoke and mirrors brother! It makes the job look so much more important than it really is. Like space shuttle work or cancer lab work. I could virtually guarantee that not only will the customer be satisfied out of their mind with us but they will race to the phone to tell everyone they know about their experience with us. Of course my price will have to go up again for the four thousanth time to cover the additional cost. That's sux.


----------



## neolitic

:blink:..........
Naaah, I'll let someone else do it


----------



## kevjob

:boxing:


----------



## NC-SC GC

The Cheap knock off's are just as good, in fact maybe better because if they get damaged or "borrowed" I don't feel as bad.


----------



## NorthstarNC

What does Harbor Freight call their version?


----------



## Cole

NorthstarNC said:


> What does Harbor Freight call their version?


 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...&pricetype=S&categoryname=MISCELLANEOUS JACKS


----------



## Jason Whipple

We have several of these. They work very well and a great P/R tool!

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Job-Site-Air-Filtration-System/EN/index.htm

They go for about $100 each


----------



## kevjob

Jason W said:


> We have several of these. They work very well and a great P/R tool!
> 
> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Job-Site-Air-Filtration-System/EN/index.htm
> 
> They go for about $100 each


HD has these on sale for 69.00 each, just picked up 2!


----------



## Jason Whipple

Those bds!

I bought mine about three months ago for $99 st!


----------



## woodman42

Excellent thread guy's, I'm going to HF tomorrow.


----------



## NorthstarNC

Big thanks guys! 9.99 is a lot better then 110.00. Contractortalk.com pays off again!


----------



## angus242

The link provided by Cole (and the previous one) now goes to a 3.5 ton farm jack. Does anyone know what they were called so we can search by keyword on HF?


----------



## neolitic

angus242 said:


> The link provided by Cole (and the previous one) now goes to a 3.5 ton farm jack. Does anyone know what they were called so we can search by keyword on HF?


Hmmm, can't find them any more!
They have reeeealy weird ways 
to categorize!
Wholesale Tools calls them "power poles",
saw them there Monday for $19.95.
Maybe someone that just bought HF ones
can say what theirs are called.
AAAAAHA!
(brainstorm):laughing:
"Haul-Master"
95746-1VGA
"2-in-1 support/cargo bar"
$9.99 (on line).
:clap:


----------



## angus242

neolitic said:


> (brainstorm):laughing:
> "Haul-Master"
> 95746-1VGA
> "2-in-1 support/cargo bar"
> $9.99 (on line).
> :clap:


THAT WORKED!!!! On order.

THANKS!!!


----------



## neolitic

BCConstruction said:


> Right need some advice on how you guys deal with dust and plastic. I have been doing my own home for a while and had plastic sheating over the walls and floor to protect them. I thought i would try to tidy up to RRP rule regs and was coming across some problems. I tried to vacuum the dust on the floor but kept sucking up the plastic and not the dust, I tried to use a dust pan and brush but loads of dust was still clinging to the plastic. I then rolled up the plastic sheating and dust was coming out of it like it was a dust machine :blink: What do you guys do when you pull down all the plastic and how do you pull it down without the dust that is all over it going everywhere?? *The only way i think would have worked would have been to wipe down every sheat of plastic before i pull it down!! Which would have taken ages.*




*Bingo!*



bauler said:


> Where did you guys take your RRP training? I like in So California. I've asked around no one knows.


http://www.thecontractorcoachingpar...training/the-contractor-coaching-partnership/


----------



## Insuranceclaims

I agree with Tin Cup.

In addition to:

1) Zip poles and 6 ml plastic, plus zipper
2) Hepa vacuum
3) air scrubber with inside or outside filtering of air
4) clean as you go
5) sometimes Tyvek suits with elastic bands and hoods, plus rubber respirators (1/2 mask or full mask) and cartridge filters

remove all contents from shelvings by boxing and labeling and covering all other contents (furniture, wall pics, etc) with 4 or 6 ml plastic.......leave a lot of overhang so that dust does not float under the plastic.

....avoid the unnecessary cleaning of contents, which I have seen costs in the thousands.


----------



## HandyHails

This is the bees knees in smaller work areas. I know this doesn't meet lead requirements, but works well where this does not apply.










Here is the hose for it.










I use this all the time. Works great on fine and not so fine dust. I purchased to use when I resurface bathtubs and tile.


----------



## WestfallRoofing

*Its all about the Prep*

Its all about the prep. The more time you take in prepping a job, the less time it will take to clean up.


----------



## jackman

You'll never control all the dust but securing plastic to both sides of the doorways works well. Tape plastic along the top of each side and then tape one side jamb on one side of the door and opposite side jamb on the other side. Also, SHERWINN WILLIAMS sells "Sticky Pads" 24" x36" in packs of 50 that you step on when leaving the jobsite area. It takes all the dust and dirt off the bottom of your shoes.


----------



## ApgarNJ

I just got 2 sets of the Fast Cap 3rd hand sets. cheaper than zip wall, goes up 12', and holds weight. I can use them for more than just holding up plastic

I have been holding off but really need them. I think they are single best investment to make for any renovation work, lead or not. I have to see about an air scrubber next. just not in the budget. I plan on taping the entire perimeter of the plastic once the walls are up.

I have a job coming up where we have to separate a banquet hall at a firehouse to the rest of the area where we are working. 

needs to be 50' long and 12' high. that is why I bought two sets.


----------



## ApgarNJ

Why won't the Dri Eaz 500 that was shown several pages back work. 500 cfm in a small lead renovation type setting would work awesome. I know it might not be great for a huge room, or a whole house but for single room renovations/guts. this seems like it's a great solution.


----------



## Remodelor

If anyone's interested, I found this cheap Zipwall alternative the other day 

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-1-support-cargo-bar-66172.html

Beware, the reviews warn you to treat them gently as they are prone to breaking if you try to torque on the handle. For the money, if you baby them a bit, it looks like they'd be a nice deal. I've also read reviews from guys using them to hang upper cabinets, ceiling drywall and other heavy stuff without issue. Even the people that had them break seemed pretty chill about just ordering some new ones since they weren't expensive to begin with.

Side note: Apparently they go on sale for $10 a piece sometimes.


----------



## festerized

I just picked up a few from Home Chepo, only available online, there 8’6” verse the normal 12’ ones.


There cheaper than the 12’ but not as cheap as the one you posted


----------



## ApgarNJ

I believe you can buy EMT connectors to the FAST cap poles to make them taller. I just tried using mine on a 12' dropped ceiling, when fully extended that metal rod that extends is thinner and doesn't seem like it would bend, just not as sturdy as I wanted. I'm sure the zipwalls are even worse.

I plan on making 4' or 8' extensions out of EMT to fasten on the bottom for taller ceilings.

my next purchase is a negative air scrubber. I am not sure which one to buy the drieaz one is small and would be great for interior work in normal bedrooms, but for larger spaces, there are larger ones for not much more money. I'm afraid if I buy the 2000 CFM one that it'll be too large to take for interior work.


----------



## Ron Carpenter

*Dust free site*

Air filtration Units also known as (AFD's or air scrubbers) HEPA filtered Vaccums. Poly sheeting duct tape are the best ways to do it but are also costly to buy at first but the AFD's And Vaccums can also be rented in some areas. Zip walls are also a great tools as are the sticky pads that you peel off the top layer after it becomes soiled.


----------



## Paulie

ApgarNJ said:


> I believe you can buy EMT connectors to the FAST cap poles to make them taller. I just tried using mine on a 12' dropped ceiling, when fully extended that metal rod that extends is thinner and doesn't seem like it would bend, just not as sturdy as I wanted. I'm sure the zipwalls are even worse.
> 
> I plan on making 4' or 8' extensions out of EMT to fasten on the bottom for taller ceilings.
> 
> my next purchase is a negative air scrubber. I am not sure which one to buy the drieaz one is small and would be great for interior work in normal bedrooms, but for larger spaces, there are larger ones for not much more money. I'm afraid if I buy the 2000 CFM one that it'll be too large to take for interior work.


For tall ceilings I've just tacked together 2X's or something and made a impromptu knee wall. 

I think the neg. air is the key in containment. I have my homemade units, one for the small job, one for a whole basement or whatever. Once you get one you will probably start using it for much more. Your customers will love you for sucking out the fumes from painting or glue or whatever.


----------



## Ron Carpenter

There is a Company That build Air scrubbers in MI. (Areospace America) I have some units that are ten years old, they have several sizes.


----------



## kcremodeling

This is something I always try to get across to my clients. I think it is really good topic to blog about. if you do that sort of thing. 

Here is some of the stuff I put together...

Dust Free Remodeling Video

Dust Free Remodeling Kansas City


----------



## rbkoz

*Poor Mans Dust Filter*

I usually tape a cheap furnace filter or two onto a box fan. (Rip the front one off when it gets too bad.) If the dust is just from sanding drywall, or you know there's no hazard, I'll bang them outside to clean off the filter. Not a HEPA solution, or for hazardous situations, you need real filters for that (and I don't work in those sorts of situations), but for every day stuff, it works pretty well. Fairly cheap.

I keep meaning to build a box to extend the fan housing that I can slip filters into so I don't have to re-tape them on.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman

HandyHails said:


> This is the bees knees in smaller work areas. I know this doesn't meet lead requirements, but works well where this does not apply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the hose for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use this all the time. Works great on fine and not so fine dust. I purchased to use when I resurface bathtubs and tile.




You can purchase dust socks for them fan units. I used to use them in the UK and they worked really well. Not many places over here sell them but they can be found and you may even be able to find a 2 micron sock. I have even seen people use dust extractor socks fitted to fans that worked pretty well.


----------



## sbcontracting

I just purchased a used version of that fan - a little more industrial, and works great. 12" hose pulls ~ 3200 CFM. I had to grind off thinset in a bathroom and put up a peice of plastic on the door. It was dust-hell. The bathroom was empty of dust in 15 seconds after I stopped grinding off the thinset


----------



## HandyHails

I use it all the time. Make sure there is a way for air to get in to the bathroom. If it is sealed up too tight, it takes longer to get rid of the nonsense. Generally in a bathroom situation I'll leave the old door on and if they will get a new one eventually, I'll cut an inch off of the bottom. There are two sizes and the smaller 8" works well for small areas.

Drywall dust in a bathroom for example. Most of it goes out the window before it hits the floor. I'm also all about fabric painter dropclothes. Really nice to be able to fold it up and toss it out the window without having to track it through the house. I can often vacuum up the remainder of the mess without even clogging my vacs filter.


----------



## elementbldrs

Just a simple but useful tip my drywaller showed me they use on large hotel jobs...

instead of fighting the ultrathin sheet plastic dropcloths for containment or large scale masking (windows and doors) use your masking gun for painting to perimiter the area to be sealer off, the spray the paper with spray adhesive, then adhere the plastic sheet to the paper. Easy clean up!

Made dumb mistake of spraying wall then adhering plastic... oops couldnt get that plastic off!


----------



## dsweetser

Festool system.


----------



## JohnFRWhipple

*Vancouver - Dust Free Remodeling*










Plastic walls with zippers for doors. We start out on top of Ram Board and work up.










The Bedroom Entry

Here in Vancouver we set up these way for almost every job. The renovations that is...

JW


----------



## plazaman

those harbor freight stands actually work pretty well. I ordered 4 of them.


----------



## sbcontracting

I got burned this spring on a basement by a drywall contractor.

I had the HO convinced that dust could be managed with my fan. In fact it was - major demo, framing, concrete cutting/mixing, no problem.

Then the drywallers came along. They started on Fri but did not finish. I told them explicitly to turn the fan on Saturday to help with the dust. I even told the HO to do it. No one did. The HO came down and asked if they were going to turn the fan on. "No, it's not necessary." HO believed them.

Guess what?! Dust ALL over the main floor. 

Pissed me off to say the least. These drywallers were used to doing brand new construction in new homes where dust isnt really a concern for them. Bah.


----------



## AdRog

send_it_all said:


> Carpet mask will work ok on stairs, but I usually vacuum the stairs really good first, then take my time putting the carpet mask down so as to tuck it into the corners really well.


So, you guys don't use the 1X6 and tack it on top with 10 penny nails? Depending on the carpet pile you can also use 16 penny nails!:laughing::thumbsup::laughing:


----------



## Lavezzo Const

a dust free remodel doesnt exist! especially when drywall is involved. Whenever I order drywall, I also order 2 boxes of 2 mil clear plastic to go over EVERYTHING.

http://www.lavezzoconstruction.com


----------



## cthaley2000

For bigger projects we build a friction fit, temp 2x wall with sill seal behind the 2x's to protect the walls, ceiling and floor and then we staple 4 mil poly to the 2x's and then run lath strips around the sides to secure the poly and add a zipper door. Works well and doesn't need to be contently fixed and re sealed. For the stairs we lay down a runner and screw through lath strips into the corner of the tread and riser.


----------



## Frankawitz

I have been using a dust collector that they use in a wood shop this machine moves 1500 cubic feet per minute, I can leave a job knowing that all our dust was contained and the rest of the house remained dust free. I have been using this system for 15 years, I could show the EPA how to contain lead paint dust. :thumbsup:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Plastic walls with zippers for doors. We start out on top of Ram Board and work up.
> 
> The Bedroom Entry
> 
> Here in Vancouver we set up these way for almost every job. The renovations that is...
> 
> JW




Your zip wall looks alot better than mine...


----------



## GARConst11

I have read thru every single post on this site and I am so confused that no one has mentioned the Dustless Technologies Wet/Dry Vacs??!! These things are great, and can be found on Amazon for under $300! They are so good you don't even have to use drop cloths or the zipwalls everyone is talking about. They are the best point of origin system I have found, and the best vac I have found at going straight from dry to wet without messing the filter up. They have a HEPA certified vac too, cant recommend it enough!! Here is a photo of one of them:


----------



## GARConst11

Has anyone else tried a dustless vac like above photo? Any thoughts, just wondering what other contractors, or renovation experts think?? I know when I find a really good product I like to really get the word out!


----------



## sbcontracting

I like that for controlling spot-messes - or cleaning up. But nothing beats full containment and air evacuation. I can`t see a vaccuum beating that.

I must admit though, I`m sick of changing filters on my rigid shop vac every time the drywall bag gives out, or my guys suck up a whack of dw dust without the liners... I`ll chk this thing out.

M


----------



## JohnFRWhipple

Plastic Zip Walls.

Zipper Doors

Ram Board

Large Fan

and Hepa Filters are keys for dustless renovations

You can make a renovation dustless and we often leave a clients home cleaner when we are done a renovation than when we started.

It's taken the care and the time to do all the steps. Changing out poly. Cleaning the filters. Repairing holes in plastic wall. But the biggest thing to monitor is the air flow from inside the job site.

One day having the window open in the "Bubble" helps and with say a kitchen window open a crack helps bring air through the home and out the window in the "Bubble". The next day or even after lunch the wind can change and the fresh air window is actuallly pushing on the "Bubble".

We monitor the poly like a sailor watching his sails. If the sail is pushing us into the non-bubble zone we drop the tools and try a few more options. If the sail is pushing into the work zone that is ideal.

Tying a large fan over a window really helps to create negative pressure in a "Bubble".

JW


----------



## Paulie

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Plastic Zip Walls.
> 
> Zipper Doors
> 
> Ram Board
> 
> *Large Fan*
> 
> and Hepa Filters are keys for dustless renovations
> 
> You can make a renovation dustless and we often leave a clients home cleaner when we are done a renovation than when we started.
> 
> It's taken the care and the time to do all the steps. Changing out poly. Cleaning the filters. Repairing holes in plastic wall. But the biggest thing to monitor is the air flow from inside the job site.
> 
> One day having the *window open* in the "Bubble" helps and with say a kitchen window open a crack helps bring air through the home and out the window in the "Bubble". The next day or even after lunch the wind can change and the fresh air window is actuallly pushing on the "Bubble".
> 
> We monitor the poly like a sailor watching his sails. If the sail is pushing us into the non-bubble zone we drop the tools and try a few more options. If the sail is pushing into the work zone that is ideal.
> 
> *Tying a large fan over a window* really helps to create negative pressure in a "Bubble".
> 
> JW


Jdub, I agree with all but the open window and large fan. 

Since I was trained years ago in abatement(I know RRP & dust free isn't the same) it kinda was drilled into me not to open windows or use fans. The idea of having complete control in containment is paramount. The variable of outdoor wind direction is not controllable therefore should be avoided. Now I agree with ya that you can create great neg air by what your doing, it's just that it's not controllable and if you are doing abatement, if the wind changes directions you can contaminate the whole house. 

You are way ahead of 90% of the remodelers in this town at least as most don't do 1/2 of what you are doing. Your site looks A+. 

I just have been taught to eliminate all variables if possible in containment or "the bubble" as you call it and to me open windows are a no no. But that's just my .02.


----------



## JohnFRWhipple

Paulie - love the fan.

What is one of those worth?

I have tried renting them before but the ones I have been renting stink. Not in function but in smell.

That would be much easier.

Way to raise the bar. :clap:

Here is my version of your rig; :laughing:


----------



## Paulie

You the man. :thumbsup:

Love ingenuity!!


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman

GARConst11 said:


> I have read thru every single post on this site and I am so confused that no one has mentioned the Dustless Technologies Wet/Dry Vacs??!! These things are great, and can be found on Amazon for under $300! They are so good you don't even have to use drop cloths or the zipwalls everyone is talking about. They are the best point of origin system I have found, and the best vac I have found at going straight from dry to wet without messing the filter up. They have a HEPA certified vac too, cant recommend it enough!! Here is a photo of one of them:


I had the hepa version of that vac. It did work very well going from wet to dry and it was a good price but it had one major issue. No anti static hose. All the dust stuck to the hose and I would get static shocks from it about every 5 seconds when it was being used. Took it back and got a festool after some recommendations and didn't look back. The festool vacs are far far better than the dustless tech vacs and ain't much more money either.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Paulie - love the fan.
> 
> What is one of those worth?
> 
> I have tried renting them before but the ones I have been renting stink. Not in function but in smell.
> 
> That would be much easier.
> 
> Way to raise the bar. :clap:
> 
> Here is my version of your rig; :laughing:


That's what I do but have a dual fan setup and a single fan for different job types. You can buy fans with a dust sock that goes on the end of the hose. They ain't cheap but they work very well. We used to use them when cutting out concrete for heating pipes. They can move some arius amounts of air.


----------



## sbcontracting

Ok now that fan must've garnered you a few jokes! 

I try to sell the HO on dust free remodelling IN the house - not outside the house as well! ;-)


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman

sbcontracting said:


> Ok now that fan must've garnered you a few jokes!
> 
> I try to sell the HO on dust free remodelling IN the house - not outside the house as well! ;-)


Ours was about 1/4th the size of that one above but the best thing is the fan and filter sock are left outside and you just pipe it up with the flexy duct to where ever your working. You could cut a chase about 8th away from the duct and it would still suck it all into it. They ain't cheap though.


----------



## sbcontracting

I have something pretty similar - it`s 3400 cfm, 12 inch hose - I try to have it outside, but the hoses are only 25 feet long and pretty bulky. Not a great solution for winter either, it sucks ALL the warm air out of the house  I usually put it in a window where I`m working and cut a peice of hardboard around to fit the window frame. 

I tell people that it`s the compromise - dust free or lower heating bill. I don`t have any form of sock on it to collect the dust blown outside though. That`s a nice option to have. 

Mine was used, it`s loud and cost me about 5 bills for one 25`hose and the blower. I wouldnt mind getting a second hose.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Too Hot to Sleep :yawn:


No AC?


----------



## TBFGhost

Remodelor said:


> If anyone's interested, I found this cheap Zipwall alternative the other day
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-1-support-cargo-bar-66172.html
> 
> Beware, the reviews warn you to treat them gently as they are prone to breaking if you try to torque on the handle. For the money, if you baby them a bit, it looks like they'd be a nice deal. I've also read reviews from guys using them to hang upper cabinets, ceiling drywall and other heavy stuff without issue. Even the people that had them break seemed pretty chill about just ordering some new ones since they weren't expensive to begin with.
> 
> Side note: Apparently they go on sale for $10 a piece sometimes.


I had them, used them a few times and tossed them in favor of Zip Wall.

My advice is to make the poles more non slip. The hard rubber they use allows the poles to slip out easy, Kids can knock them over in no time.

Also, when you extend the pole out, it clicks into a detent and then you tighten down a knob. After that you start using the caulk gun type lever/rod to extend it the rest of the way and "lock it down". But that first extention has a tendency to pop out of detent, again causing the pole to fall. You can fix this by extending it and then driving a small sheel metal screw into it.

Overall for $140, you can get a Zip Wall set-up that blows the doors off HF. I now have 2 sets of Zip-Wall

http://www.amazon.com/ZipWall-ZipPo...=UTF8&qid=1378636730&sr=8-1&keywords=Zip+wall


----------



## kubie

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-portable-ventilator-97762.html

so how would you hook up a filter to this?


----------



## Pat789

With or without kids i would never use marble! i agree 1000% . Quartz is so good - and the new patterns they are coming out with are fantastic. Not sure about the pricing or quality of the new brands that are coming out. anyone ever try them? i always use ceasar stone or cambria


----------



## svronthmve

kubie said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-portable-ventilator-97762.html
> 
> so how would you hook up a filter to this?


Build a box to hold a furnace filter (whatever size you want. I made mine to hold a 16x20.)


----------



## contractorgal

*Tricks to control dust (especially when lead dust is present)*

I was very concerned about lead dust when renovating a customers' older home that had traces of lead paint. In addition to the much discussed and suggested zipwall system, I would highly recommend purchasing a lead ready kit from Builders Site Protection. http://buildsitepro.com Not only did it have a lead testing kit, but many items I needed to control dust and to protect me as well. I did have to purchase plastic, tape and the zipwall system separately but they carry everything and will match pricing. You should also use a negative air scrubber to keep dust from blowing outside your plastic enclosure. Purchase extra primary and secondary filters as they are cheap. The Hepa filters are pricey so you want to keep those clean as long as possible by regularly changing the less expensive filters! I found this out the hard way.


----------



## Roseann

*Industrial Dividers*

You can use industrial dividers to section off areas. Floor sweep, anchor straps with d-rings, and custom grommets will allow you to attach to pretty much anything. Our company uses an industrial grade, fire retardant vinyl... and since it is pretty durable, you can re-use it in other areas and job sites. :thumbsup:


----------



## smpcarpentry

u know I am surprised that know one has mentioned the fast cap third hand it is like the harbor freight idea only 100 times better when I was looking for a dust barrier I looked at zip wall and the third hand and decided that zip wall seemed a little cheap? or flimsy? don't get me wrong I still see where I could and would use it just the third hand is also a bit more versatile and has a real nice door system for extended set up and use but for quick jobs zip wall would be fine


----------



## bbgcarpentry

svronthmve said:


> Build a box to hold a furnace filter (whatever size you want. I made mine to hold a 16x20.)


do you have a photo of your set up.you place the ventilator in a box with a cut out for the filter ?


----------



## AGullion

Fast cap dust door..awesome


----------



## EverVac

I always Made a point to mask over Cold Air Returns as well.


----------



## AGullion

Dust Free remodeling? Ha. That's like too much fun. Ain't know such thing.

People will forgive some dust, but they won't forgive not caring or not trying.

And being clean matters, especially to women , who are normally clean, and have to clean the house you are ripping apart.

Zipwalls aren't a good value ...get the harbor freight blue poles, 3 mil 10x25 plastic from wal mart and take the savings and buy fastcaps ' dust door its really impressive and works.

My favorite trick is 1/8 hardboard , basically Masonite , from Home Depot ...it really , really protects floors and can be used over and over .


----------



## AGullion

Know such thing...lol


----------



## m1911

AGullion said:


> Know such thing...lol


I "KNOW" lots of things...
and I know not to buy anything from Harbor Freight...


----------



## KAP

AGullion said:


> Know such thing...lol


The first one wasn't enough?... :whistling :laughing:

You didn't even correct it on the second... :w00t:


----------



## AGullion

The blue poles from harbor freight crush the small diameter pokes from zip wall.

I found that at on this site, on the "harbor freight tools you actually use" thread.

The only better pole is fastcaps 3rd hand, and it's almost overkill it's so well made .


----------



## AGullion

I need some coffee and English lessons.


----------



## tjbnwi

I always supply the dust for free. People like getting things they're/there/their not charged for. 

Truly the dust is free...

Tom


----------



## AGullion

This man is a genius. I have found my hero. I love it dude!


----------



## AGullion

I will say this....we all think we know a lot, and we do...and like to get on here and sound smart....but you can also get on here and learn, save time, and money.

Someone posted they buy blue poles at harbor freight , and I 've seen what happens to things that I set up and leave, like poles, so I went and took a look....and thought , wow, these are great ...harbor freight, hmmm, who would of thought?

I have no problem hauling a festool tracksaw, domino, of1400 ,an rotex in the same trailer with harbor freight blue poles.

Also, I want put a $20-25 hour finish carpenter on a $12 an hour demo. Make the cost fit the project, spend where it matters and save where you can.


----------



## overanalyze

The Fastcap magnetic doors are awesome!

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


----------



## Caleb1989

You can buy canvas drop cloths with rubber bumps all over. Especially made for covering stairs and not have it slip around. Saw it at the big orange.


----------



## AJobDunWell

Journeyman T said:


> I'm interested in any tricks (other than the obvious) for minimizing dust when remodeling. Does anybody have some?


It's impossible. 
There are environments where dust contamination has to be avoided but for your average remodel, you will spend more time and money on equipment setting up and breaking down any dust seal. If you have a picky client you're better of vacuuming their floor at the end of the day, than trying to preempt the complaint. Most people don't think about the added equipment/set up/break down time as it relates to a project day vs the inconvenience of a little drywall dust, or a wet footprint on the entryway tile.

I had a clients wife a couple months ago leave me a note on the door while I was hauling tiles from the drive to a bathroom I was working on (had tarps down but the door being close behind me while I was moving tile inside cause a ripple and pulled up another corner and i left a little wet boot print on the floor, just wet no mud). Some people just aren't happy unless they are unhappy.


----------



## SPG

AJobDunWell said:


> It's impossible.


Maybe, but you have to at least try. I take a more measured approach. I always tell the client that it's going to be messy, but that we'll do what we can to keep the mess contained. Make some effort. Put up the dust walls. Use a vac. Is it going to be perfectly clean? No, but a reasonable HO will see that we at least tried to keep it clean and they won't get that upset over a little dust or dirt here and there. 
Contrast that approach to the window replacement guys I just followed... They cut the aluminum windows out with no attempt to contain the metal shavings. Knuckleheads brought a magnetic sweeper, but surprise! Aluminum doesn't come out of the manicured grass with one of those. They hacked out the drywall around the windows and dropped it on the hardwood floors with no drop cloth. Guess what kind of review the HO gave them after that.


----------



## AJobDunWell

SPG said:


> Maybe, but you have to at least try. I take a more measured approach. I always tell the client that it's going to be messy, but that we'll do what we can to keep the mess contained. Make some effort. Put up the dust walls. Use a vac. Is it going to be perfectly clean? No, but a reasonable HO will see that we at least tried to keep it clean and they won't get that upset over a little dust or dirt here and there.
> Contrast that approach to the window replacement guys I just followed... They cut the aluminum windows out with no attempt to contain the metal shavings. Knuckleheads brought a magnetic sweeper, but surprise! Aluminum doesn't come out of the manicured grass with one of those. They hacked out the drywall around the windows and dropped it on the hardwood floors with no drop cloth. Guess what kind of review the HO gave them after that.


You are completely right. I cover my traffic area with tarps, I keep whatever closed as closed as I can. If I'm making dust in an accessory room I just close the door. 
Only a couple times have I had a ceiling repair in a vault kitchen, or den. I've made bubbles and have a little 3" fan and some ducting to pull dust out. If your just cutting a couple holes a paper bag taped under where you're working will save you a little dust cleanup. 

The aluminum windows... well they shouldn't have had to cut them out... but yes they should have thought about metal shavings. I have projects with food carts every so often and i just have to clean up my construction debris the owner has their next shift do the sanitation.

I have never had a client say that I didn't do everything in my power to keep the dust down. I am saying a LOT of people complain about things(usually the clients wife). 
But I have been looking at a dust barrier systems for an upcoming project, it wouldn't be an every project thing, but if the clean environment is required it can be.... almost done.


----------



## SPG

AJobDunWell said:


> I have never had a client say that I didn't do everything in my power to keep the dust down. I am saying a LOT of people complain about things(usually the clients wife).


Yep. That's why it's good to head them off at the pass. Tell them it'll get dusty. It'll get dirty. We'll do our best, and then sometimes you just need to make a little extra show of it to keep them happy. ...then they'll just complain about where you parked your truck.


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Here's a trick I came up with years ago for making plastic dust containment bubbles when doing ceiling repairs or texturing.:thumbsup:


----------



## Zen life

if cutting stone, have someone stand next to you with a vacuum to suck up the dust as you cut.


----------



## Zen life

if you cut a lot, you can rent a local shop or yard and pay a monthly fee, and not care about any dust at the job site.


----------



## Dan_Watson

AJobDunWell said:


> *It's impossible. *
> There are environments where dust contamination has to be avoided but for your average remodel, you will spend more time and money on equipment setting up and breaking down any dust seal.* If you have a picky client you're better of vacuuming their floor at the end of the day, than trying to preempt the complaint.* Most people don't think about the added equipment/set up/break down time as it relates to a project day vs the inconvenience of a little drywall dust, or a wet footprint on the entryway tile.
> 
> I had a clients wife a couple months ago leave me a note on the door while I was hauling tiles from the drive to a bathroom I was working on (had tarps down but the door being close behind me while I was moving tile inside cause a ripple and pulled up another corner and i left a little wet boot print on the floor, just wet no mud). Some people just aren't happy unless they are unhappy.


Absolutely incorrect and I feel bad for your clients. There are numerous ways to protect your clients home or business. Vacuum after? Do you borrow the client's vacuum? 

I can't tell if you are joking or not.... But there are clients that expect us to protect every surface, keep their space clean, and their family safe. There is a product or tool available to do it and we use them. So do our subs. 

Carpet shield, jamb protectors, ram board, air filtration, negative air pressure, liquid mask, fastcap or zip doors and walls, protection tapes, tools with dust collection/specialized cutting and drilling tools, dust extractors, wet saw tents, booties, wash your drop clothes or use disposable when needed, temporary doors, temp floors, and the list goes on.


----------



## overanalyze

You are in someone's home when remodeling...not a job site. You have to treat it differently and better!!


----------



## Tom M

My current reno has been impossible to keep clean. I have plastic on everything in half the rooms and poled off plastic for the living room but the owner, although has moved out come in and out ruffling the plastic and not really being tidy going back. Plus the constant traffic through the outdoors cutting wood, mixing mud and tile work......just a bear. I also have a negative air pressure exiting a damaged chimney flue so even though I have plastic blocking that room and cardboard over the fireplace it still steadily pulls my plastic into the room.

Hey Andrew did you abandon the "CleanBuild" thing? If I recall you bought one.


----------



## madmax718

If your plastic is being sucked in, your not setting up barriers right. It should hold up. They have magnetic self closing ones if you go in and out often, and zipper ones for the few times a day uses. They are pricey given their one time usage (you get a few more uses by using duct tape) but could solve your issue.


----------



## overanalyze

Tom M said:


> My current reno has been impossible to keep clean. I have plastic on everything in half the rooms and poled off plastic for the living room but the owner, although has moved out come in and out ruffling the plastic and not really being tidy going back. Plus the constant traffic through the outdoors cutting wood, mixing mud and tile work......just a bear. I also have a negative air pressure exiting a damaged chimney flue so even though I have plastic blocking that room and cardboard over the fireplace it still steadily pulls my plastic into the room.
> 
> Hey Andrew did you abandon the "CleanBuild" thing? If I recall you bought one.


Nope still have it and use it. It has about 2000 hours on it. About due for a new Hepa filter. It really helps with dust and the customer loves seeing that we use it to help keep their home cleaner. I have had 2 projects now where the cleaning lady said how impressed she was by how clean things were.


----------



## 91782

Dan_Watson said:


> Absolutely incorrect and I feel bad for your clients. There are numerous ways to protect your clients home or business. Vacuum after? Do you borrow the client's vacuum?
> 
> I can't tell if you are joking or not.... But there are clients that expect us to protect every surface, keep their space clean, and their family safe. There is a product or tool available to do it and we use them. So do our subs.
> 
> Carpet shield, jamb protectors, ram board, air filtration, negative air pressure, liquid mask, fastcap or zip doors and walls, protection tapes, tools with dust collection/specialized cutting and drilling tools, dust extractors, wet saw tents, booties, wash your drop clothes or use disposable when needed, temporary doors, temp floors, and the list goes on.


I would never make it in your world.


----------



## rrk

SmallTownGuy said:


> I would never make it in your world.


That is the biggest difference between new construction and remodeling


----------



## Dan_Watson

SmallTownGuy said:


> I would never make it in your world.


Completely different environments. Especially some of the commercial work we do while the businesses are open.


----------



## hdavis

Working in an occupied area that has to be kept clean and be available for daily use like a bath is a great teacher, especially if you have to demo a ceiling with loose insulation above.

Honestly, it's faster to keep it clean and dust free than clean up every day, IMO.


----------



## tjbnwi

I hate messy job sites. I'm now in a new construction environment where the other trades are beyond slobs. I avoid going to the site when others are there it is so bad.

The new project supper who came from the remodel end of construction is really putting his foot down on this. It is getting better. 

Tom


----------



## Juan80

If every sub keeps they’re stuff clean,it’s easier for the rest to follow and a lot better work area.
Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------

