# HO's kid throws out my yard sign!!



## Beanfacekilla (May 19, 2011)

If I had someone working on my house, I would let them place a sign. If my kid throws the sign away, we would both apologize to the contractor. I would never call that contractor again if he billed me for the sign. Maybe this is wrong, but I think that's the way most people would look at it. 

I agree with the other posters who suggested getting the cheaper signs. The HO has no obligation to put the sign in their yard. I really think that would hurt the chances of getting referrals or future work from that client. I just think it's kinda rediculous someone would even suggest billing the HO. Is 1 or $200 worth losing a customer? You really expect the HO to pay for that? 

Maybe the homeowner would want to "teach the kid a lesson", but I sincerely doubt it. It would just piss him/her off.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

I assume that the you left the sign behind at the end of the working day. 

You can't make the HO responsible for your property without their consent.

Mark


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## bernie (Aug 1, 2005)

I will add my 2 cents here ... did anyone think for a minute this kid
could be a 'responsible kid' and may have taken it upon himself to clean up the yard of stuff that was left behind. 

Kids have no sense of what stuff cost. Heck, most of our customers
have no sense of what this stuff cost.

If it were me ... I may grumble but I would definitely not make an
issue of it with the homeowner. You never know where your next
referral will come from.

But, for the sake of keeping this from happening again, on the next
job ask the homeowner to please make sure someone doesn't throw
your sign in the dumpster as they are not cheap to replace. 

Bernie


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

CarrPainting said:


> if I found out who stole my sign, id file criminal charges as well as file a small claims lawsuit. yes its a hassle, but, it would teach them a lesson.


You can't file a criminal charge. Only the DA can. The charge will be dropped if criminal intent can not be proven. The onus is on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that, the homeowners' son, removed sign, with intent of depriving you of something valuable. 

Chalk it up as a learning experience. *I* think its in your business interest to keep your face out of publicity through going to court over something silly like this.

If you decided to just put it up, they could counter that it was an unauthorized sign or offensive littering. 

Here's a case where a HO's own sign got him a letter from HOA about bylaw violation. I take it that if you erected a sign without a written consent and the HO got fined by the HOA, you will assume full responsibility for the fine, correct? 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/pu...outwitted-petty-HOA-over-playo?urn=nhl-wp4283

It seems to me that your sign was rather elaborate. Are you willing to sign that you will assume full liability from anything resulting from that sign? Perhaps kids plan in the hard all the time. If a neighborhood kid gets injured by your sign while playing in the yard and they sue the HO, and HO hands over the claim to you, you'll pay it right off, right?



researchhound said:


> When I do put one out, I avoid putting it in the median strip between the sidewalk and curb. These are often maintained by neighborhood association lawn care crews and they'll just toss them.


Good idea. That's actually considered public property. If it was ok for you to put it there, then it would be ok for anyone to put it there and there would be an influx of stupid signs popping up like "bad credit? no credit? no problem, call 1-800-###-####" that seem to get put up on bus shelters, utility poles, etc. So, in areas, you need a PERMIT from the city to place signs in that area.

I think anyone is free to remove them and if the sign was put up without a permit. If it was not so easy to remove one and someone called the city, someone might actually get billed for removal of nuisance sign.


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

Electric_Light said:


> You can't file a criminal charge. *Sure I can, I pick up my phone, call the police and tell them who took my stuff with out permission. In most states, thats called theft, and is thus illegal.*Only the DA can. The charge will be dropped if criminal intent can not be proven. *The sign was stolen from me...*The onus is on you to prove beyond reasonable doubt that, the homeowners' son, removed sign, with intent of depriving you of something valuable. *I was responding to someone elses comment about a contractor paying people to steal yard signs. In such an instance, if the owner of said sign, finds out who stole their property, yes, criminal charges can be filed.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 you dont need a permit to put up a yard sign around here, as long as its not 'permanent'

I wrote the sign off as a cost of doing business, there is no way I am going to bill the HO for the cost of the sign. The new sign, I had the following added 'DO NOT DISCARD. RETURN TO CARRIGAN PAINTING'

On the top and bottom in easy to read letters.

The neighborhood which this occurred is worth too much business for me to write off this customer with a bill.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

You can call the police, but that doesn't mean the DA will file a charge. The HO can say offensive littering and you had no permission to use the land as ad space. 

You own up to sidewalk? Are you kidding? Check property records, I guarantee you not.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

researchhound said:


> Really? Can't imagine a HO agreeing to allowing a contractor to put up a sign with that stipulation. What if someone else takes it? Is the HO still on the hook for it?
> I always feel that the HO is helping me out by letting me put up a sign - I never feel it's my right. I ask if I may put one up and then make sure I get back and pick it up no longer than a week after the job's finished. I don't expect the HO to have it in their yard until they get tired of it and have to dispose of it themselves. Inconveniencing a customer like that seems like a good way to lose their repeat business, or worse, their referral.
> When I do put one out, I avoid putting it in the median strip between the sidewalk and curb. These are often maintained by neighborhood association lawn care crews and they'll just toss them. I make sure to put it in the yard of the owner and then not right up next to the sidewalk - too tempting for kids to whack at it as they go by.


i didn't say i did it:no:

i hate seeing all those signs you guys put out everywhere anyway


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## researchhound (Sep 5, 2010)

TS - I realize you didn't say you did it and I don't believe I responded that way. My questions were simply rhetorical ones about what would happen to the HO if they did sign off to something like that in the contract. Personally, I'm not a huge fans of the signs myself and I think many HOs aren't either. Another reason I ask. Still, if the signs are well done, in good condition, placed well (straight and level - not just stuck in the ground any old way), and aren't left there forever, the offensive factor is minimized.
_"Here's a case where a HO's own sign got him a letter from HOA about bylaw violation. I take it that if you erected a sign without a written consent and the HO got fined by the HOA, you will assume full responsibility for the fine, correct?" _. HOAs rules are something to consider. Another reason I always ask the HO.
EL - The meridian strip (between the sidewalk and the curb) is public property but (at least here) up to the sidewalk is private property and that's where I will place my signs. One time, about twelve years ago, we were trying to sell a house. We lived in the country and I placed a for sale sign with an arrow out near the entrance to the road leading back to our neighborhood. About a week late the sign disappeared. I called around and found that the state highway crews had taken it because it was in a public right of way. I was told I could likely retrieve it by going to the state highway depot located in our city. When I got there there was a pile of signs (mostly realtors) about five feet high by twenty wide. Apparently the highway workers were busy little fellows (or bored). My sign wasn't impeding anyone's view of oncoming traffic and wasn't a hazard in any other way. It was simply not where it should have been. Lesson learned.


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

The area between where you lawn ends at the sidewalk, to the street is considered 'public' property. As such, say you have a tree growing there, the town or city, can cut down that tree with zero compensation to you. They have done so in the past because its technically their tree. However, if said tree, loses a branch in a storm and crushes someones car, the tow/city will often decline responsibility.

Its like, as a HO you dont actually own the property but its your responsibility to remove snow from the sidewalk, mow the grass between the side walk and the street, and pay out of your own pocket for any repairs needed for said sidewalk...


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## vancouver dave (Apr 30, 2011)

When we were kids in England we used to go on sites after all had gone home and kick the fresh brick walls down.
One time we found the starter handle for the dump truck, fired it up and had a riot pushing walls over with it!
Oops :whistling


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

rblank said:


> I'll play devils advocate for a sec, did you ASK to put up the sign? I've had guys put them up on my projects and tossed them myself for various reasons.


it's in my contract to have a sign for the duration of the job. if you throw it out i may just add it onto the bill.


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## researchhound (Sep 5, 2010)

vancouver dave said:


> when we were kids in england we used to go on sites after all had gone home and kick the fresh brick walls down.
> One time we found the starter handle for the dump truck, fired it up and had a riot pushing walls over with it!
> Oops :whistling


*Hooligans!*


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Tell us a little more about the context of the situation - was this during a project? A day after the project was complete? A month after?

I've got the same setup as you with the 24x36 signs with custom welded frames. However, we also have a clause in our contract that allows us to keep the yard sign for the duration of the project. So if the HO's kid were to throw it away during construction, he'd owe me a day or two's work as a laborer. If it was a week or two after the job was complete, then that sign was destined to be tossed.


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## researchhound (Sep 5, 2010)

RemodelGA said:


> . However, we also have a clause in our contract that allows us to keep the yard sign for the duration of the project. So if the HO's kid were to throw it away during construction, he'd owe me a day or two's work as a laborer. If it was a week or two after the job was complete, then that sign was destined to be tossed.


Just curious - To what extent would you actually go after a HO's kid or the HO if this happened? When you say the sign would be destined to be tossed after being there a week after the job was complete does that mean it's now an expendable sign whereas during the job it's worth enough money that you'd pursue the issue? If you have a clause allowing you to have the sign up for the duration of the project, is there something in the contract giving the HO redress for you leaving it there beyond that time? For instance would you now owe him or her some extra days of labor? 
I don't intend this email to be perceived as combative in nature - I really am interested in how this works for you.


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

the HO called me this morning... and apologized for his son tossing the sign, and asked what he owes me for a new one. Being that I dont want to lose him as a client, or possibly get a neg from him with his neighbors, I told him not to worry about it... But he persisted. So I said that I had already ordered a new one, and the sign costs $150. He told me 'Well Mr Carrigan I will not let you off the phone until you agree to allow me to pay you for the sign' :blink: I said 'Ok' well hows $50' He said, "i'll tell ya what, Ill send you a check for $75' I told him $50 would be fine, but he persisted.

I was a bit peeved at first, but in the whole scheme of things its really peanuts and small potatos. I realize some of you live and work in neighborhoods where these signs are an annoyance however around here a nice sign (not a crappy one) is acceptable use of advertising and people generally dont mind.

The sign was up for 4 days after the job was completed. I had told the HO I'd be back for the sign in a couple of days. I had gone by there earlier in the week to get it but didnt see the sign, and didnt have my phone with me. So I went back there the next day. And thats when I caught Jr. :whistling


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

If it was during construction and the kid admitted to it, I would give him 3 options. #1 - he pays me fair value for the sign. #2 - he repays me in labor the fair value for the sign. or #3 - I bill his parents and he can work it out with them. 

If it were after construction was completed but prior to the final walk through which usually happens 1-3 days after construction depending on everyones schedules, then I would look for payment for the sign (options #1 & #3) as the contract hasn't been fully satisfied - we typically don't receive the final payment until the final walk through. 

If the sign was left after the final walk through - I would prefer if the HO removed it and set it off to the side and contacted me about what to do about it, but in all reality, that's not going to happen, and if you left it there after the final walk through, you should assume it's as good as gone.

So to answer your question in a legalistic manor, during the course of the contract, the sign has every right to be there as much as my job box or materials to be installed. However, after the contractual obligations have been fulfilled, the sign is no longer protected by the contract clauses and I then have no right to go after them for discarding it.

It also depends on what happened with the kid and the sign. My answers are based on the pretense from the OP that the kid did it maliciously or to mess with the OP. If it was an honest mistake and they're good clients, just stick a new sign out front and ask them not to toss this one. If they're nickel and diming you to death, bill 'em for it.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Kids are so stupid, he should have just lied and said someone stole it and this mess never would have happened. :laughing:

I think the kid honestly didn't realize he was doing anything besides cleaning the contractors trash off his parents yard.


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## researchhound (Sep 5, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> I think the kid honestly didn't realize he was doing anything besides cleaning the contractors trash off his parents yard.


A kid actually trying to help his parents clean up? Now that's funny! :w00t:


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## Acres (Feb 12, 2011)

> Live and learn, Buy printed corogated plastic ones. I picked up 50 of them from big daddy signs for 650 shipped to my door.


Signsonthecheap.com my friend.. 

I put signs in peoples yards I don't even take care of, well near there yard and the neighbors yard. That way they have to meet up and discuss who's sign it is to throw it away. Usually buys me at leasst a couple extra days. Mostly entrance yards to neighborhoods, stop signs etc those type of places.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

Winchester said:


> it's in my contract to have a sign for the duration of the job. if you throw it out i may just add it onto the bill.


What if the said property owners' over-ruling HOA bylaws prohibit such signage?



Acres said:


> Signsonthecheap.com my friend..
> 
> I put signs in peoples yards I don't even take care of, well near there yard and the neighbors yard. That way they have to meet up and discuss who's sign it is to throw it away. Usually buys me at leasst a couple extra days. Mostly entrance yards to neighborhoods, stop signs etc those type of places.


IMHO you're crossing the line of criminal trespass and dumping. Do you want someone coming onto your property and erecting junk on there or come over to your shop and throw things in your dumpster?


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