# The School of hard knocks. What I've learned while running my business



## jake04892

NYgutterguy said:


> Thanks for your service. Mean not very cause to do it right and legit it will be tough not giving the business your full attention in the very beginning
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I realize it will be a little more difficult but Im willing to put in the long hours. My schooling is online so I can do that at anytime and im off work by 230.
I know it will be a tough


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## NYgutterguy

Done by 230 so I guess your not installing Windows now as your job ? 


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## m2akita

jake04892 said:


> I realize it will be a little more difficult but Im willing to put in the long hours. My schooling is online so I can do that at anytime and im off work by 230.
> I know it will be a tough


Are you planning on supplying the labor yourself or would you sub that out? Might be a good idea to start an entirely new thread with your question. Lot of info to give to your question.

There are a lot of older threads related to your question. Try using the search function, read a number of those, and then maybe post your question in another thread.

Good Luck.


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## Eco 2

This is awesome information, Thanks for putting it out here. Seems very timely for our company we have been struggling with trying to take that step of having guys on the job that are qualified that can do the work and myself looking and bidding the jobs.


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## lawndart

Building a local brand. Here's my last truck finally getting vinyl wrapped. I can't tell you the success I've had locally from driving around with these over the last few months.

Notice the new website matches?

http://www.themenwithtools.com/


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## JBM

I thought you did floors. Either way looking great!


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## lawndart

JBM said:


> I thought you did floors. Either way looking great!


Sold the old company last year JBM. I'm now chasing larger window and remodeling projects with the new company. 

I've built a solid local brand within 6 months driving these trucks around town. 

People here recognize the new company. When I advertise it's much more effective and people almost always tell me "I see your trucks everywhere" when I ask, How did you hear about us?

Wrapping the trucks are a significant investment, however it might be the best money I've ever spent in marketing. Even better than a website!


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## NYgutterguy

lawndart said:


> Sold the old company last year JBM. I'm now chasing larger window and remodeling projects with the new company.
> 
> I've built a solid local brand within 6 months driving these trucks around town.
> 
> People here recognize the new company. When I advertise it's much more effective and people almost always tell me "I see your trucks everywhere" when I ask, How did you hear about us?
> 
> Wrapping the trucks are a significant investment, however it might be the best money I've ever spent in marketing. Even better than a website!


I agree..Nicely wrapped trucks like that in an area as populated as staten island and NJ right next to it will get a serious amount of eyeballs. Have two cube vans that i lettered up 15 years ago and hear same thing about seeing trucks all over. Looks good:thumbup:


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## JBM

lawndart said:


> Sold the old company last year JBM. I'm now chasing larger window and remodeling projects with the new company.


How would you roughly value a business to put it up for sale? Cashflow, net cashflow, whats the multiplier? Ive been wondering if building local businesses to sell are worth the headache? 



> Wrapping the trucks are a significant investment, however it might be the best money I've ever spent in marketing. Even better than a website!


Say it aint so!


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## TEnglish14

As a green business owner this is really insightful. I'm just starting to get my name out more now with business cards and Facebook. I did a lot of research and am finishing up all the paper work now. It certainly is going to get stressful the next few months working full time and estimating jobs on the side as well as working jobs after work and on weekends. But if all goes well I can make the leap come spring to just go full time. 

Thank you for the advice! :shake:


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## lawndart

*The School Of Hard Knocks. What I've Learned While Running My Business*



JBM said:


> How would you roughly value a business to put it up for sale? Cashflow, net cashflow, whats the multiplier? Ive been wondering if building local businesses to sell are worth the headache?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Say it aint so!



Me and my lawyer put a value on the existing business by taking 2 years of profits (Net and salary) and applied a multiplier of 2 plus the value of the equipment and real estate that came with it.

Construction businesses generally have a multiplier of 1-3. In my case, my business had a contract to install for a national retailer which accounted for 60% of the total revenue. Hence the reason for the multiplier of 2. The buyer technically bought the contract, customer database, website, equipment, building and the custom CRM built for my company.


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## AGullion

Very good thread . Good insight .

It breaks my heart to watch businesses fail for self imposed reasons . 

Here are a few things I think have helped us :

Keep your hands off the working money . All you are doing is stealing from yourself.

Run a clean job . Nothing impresses a client much more than a a clean and organized job in progress.

Put it in writing . Doing jobs, changes and work on a verbal understanding will bite you sooner or later . The price , what's included, what isn't , the draw points , all are critical elements of the deal. 

Do what you say you will. This alone will pretty much guarantee success in any endeavor.

I like what he said about the customer is not always right . Get that in your head.
Businesses that live by that creed are normally selling a $2 item, like a hamburger. One of the best things anyone can do to learn to survive is to learn to recognize people that are bad to do business with ....when you do that , you will almost automatically find your ideal client profile at the same time . When guys tell me they don't have a client profile ....that concerns me. It usually means they aren't aware ...which is pretty scary.

Threads like he's done , if guys will read and learn, can really save some heartache . He nailed it at the start ....its not a game ....you better do whatever you have to do to get it done and make it work, or you can lose everything you have . The stress can ruin lives, marriages and lead people to suicide.

You can have fun, laugh , treat people well, do great work, have a life , and be proud 
of who you are what you do....and still make a buck .


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## Geronimo

I've been a full time accountant and have been running a part time handyman business. I have recently passed my CSL exam and received my license. I have decided to go into construction full time. I think the hardest thing for me is to find a focus. There are too many opportunities out there and sometimes you just want to do it all. Anyone have the same issue? How did you decide what business to get in to? 


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## AGullion

Yes, that is a challenge. Go with your passion and interest s are, you ll need all you have in your heart to do this.


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## Spencer

Geronimo said:


> I've been a full time accountant and have been running a part time handyman business. I have recently passed my CSL exam and received my license. I have decided to go into construction full time. I think the hardest thing for me is to find a focus. There are too many opportunities out there and sometimes you just want to do it all. Anyone have the same issue? How did you decide what business to get in to?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Usually you have to start out doing multiple different things but usually you will find that your business will naturally take direction towards what you are good at and what you love doing.


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## sailfish27

Geronimo said:


> I've been a full time accountant and have been running a part time handyman business. I have recently passed my CSL exam and received my license. I have decided to go into construction full time. I think the hardest thing for me is to find a focus. There are too many opportunities out there and sometimes you just want to do it all. Anyone have the same issue? How did you decide what business to get in to?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it's a tug of war between your heart and your wallet. I personally like the money from doing handyman work but if I have to be extremely neat and work around a lot of furniture, homeowners etc. I'm not a happy camper. I love working outdoors but I don't know if I could make as much doing production work like siding, roofing etc. So I think you have to strike a balance between your comfort level and where the money is. 

One important thing to consider is help. For 2 years I had a guy that was very good at the things I hated doing. If I had an inside painting job, for example, I would simply drop off my helper and let him tackle the whole job rather than subject myself to what I consider torture. The ability to delegate allowed me to capture profitable jobs that I would probably pass on if I had to accomplish them alone.


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## Geronimo

A lot of people in the industry say to go with what has the biggest margins but i just want to do something I enjoy doing. I think I will try a bit of everything and delegate my least favorite tasks onto people who do well with it or actually like doing it. 


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## DonBigote

AGullion said:


> Yes, that is a challenge. Go with your passion and interest s are, you ll need all you have in your heart to do this.


I used to think this too, but now I think it's not so simple as that. If your passion leads you to a fulfilling career, that's great! Problem is, some people are passionate about doing stuff that doesn't pay very well. 

As much as possible, I try to align my working passion with profit. Having delighted customers, being able to support my family, taking time off work, trying new experiences, preparing to retire... those more than make up for sometimes doing work I'm not initially passionate about.

An internally motivated person can learn to love almost anything he chooses to do. A while back, I caught a strong whiff of sewage while a guy was pumping out a temporary toilet on a jobsite. I asked him how he could deal with such a chitty job. He grinned and said, "That's the smell of money." Saw that guy a few more times and noticed that he always hustled like a real pro showing pride in his work. I doubt that he followed his passion into that job, but I respect him for the way he did it.

A guy named Cal Newport writes about this more clearly than I do;
"Matching your job to a preexisting passion does not matter. Passion comes after you put in the hard work to become excellent at something valuable, not before. In other words, what you do for a living is much less important than how you do it."
--excerpt from "So Good They Can't Ignore You", http://calnewport.com/books/so-good/

Not trying to argue, just stating an alternate view.


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## lawndart

DonBigote said:


> I used to think this too, but now I think it's not so simple as that. If your passion leads you to a fulfilling career, that's great! Problem is, some people are passionate about doing stuff that doesn't pay very well.
> 
> As much as possible, I try to align my working passion with profit. Having delighted customers, being able to support my family, taking time off work, trying new experiences, preparing to retire... those more than make up for sometimes doing work I'm not initially passionate about.
> 
> An internally motivated person can learn to love almost anything he chooses to do. A while back, I caught a strong whiff of sewage while a guy was pumping out a temporary toilet on a jobsite. I asked him how he could deal with such a chitty job. He grinned and said, "That's the smell of money." Saw that guy a few more times and noticed that he always hustled like a real pro showing pride in his work. I doubt that he followed his passion into that job, but I respect him for the way he did it.
> 
> A guy named Cal Newport writes about this more clearly than I do;
> "Matching your job to a preexisting passion does not matter. Passion comes after you put in the hard work to become excellent at something valuable, not before. In other words, what you do for a living is much less important than how you do it."
> --excerpt from "So Good They Can't Ignore You", http://calnewport.com/books/so-good/
> 
> Not trying to argue, just stating an alternate view.


Excellent post. 

When I started out as a young pup banging nails and working hard everyday I knew that one day I would own and operate my own business. I kept my head down and my eye on the prize.

My passion then and now has been about making lots of money not the actual trade.


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## Texas Wax

DonBigote said:


> An internally motivated person can learn to love almost anything he chooses to do. A while back, I caught a strong whiff of sewage while a guy was pumping out a temporary toilet on a jobsite. I asked him how he could deal with such a chitty job. He grinned and said, "That's the smell of money." Saw that guy a few more times and noticed that he always hustled like a real pro showing pride in his work. I doubt that he followed his passion into that job, but I respect him for the way he did it.


Heard that most simply put as " Do what you love or learn to love what you do." It's as simple as that. Or be miserable in your crappy job. Misery and the incredible self sacrifice of just showing up for your crappy job?always get you promoted.


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## Roofworks

Excellent read and very good points!


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## lawndart

Almost 2 years later and I've learned so much more. However, the most important, thing is still hiring the best people and creating systems/processes for your business.


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## EarthwiseScott

...Man, I'm there right now. You know, at that point of realization you described when your daughter turned 7. I've been working to find a way to turn that corner for a long time now. Reading this was very inspiring, thanks again.


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## Bearded Wonder

Good thread. I just listened to The E-Myth and man it was extremely paradigm changing for me. Changed my perspective majorly, broadened my scope, helped me see the big picture. I recommend it for anyone who isn’t one of those lucky few who just seem to be born with the knack for making money and being successful. 


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## shrodenas

Interesting post. Thanks.


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## Ohio painter

Lots of great comments here. 
The school of hard knocks - just last week i found myself tested on a project that went wrong. An epoxy floor job that turned out disappointing, to me and the customer. He wasn't happy and neither was I. I could have blamed the paint store, the rep, and whoever else. But none of that fixes it, i wanted to walk away but obviously i couldn't. 

The customer didn't want excuses. I owned the problem. 

A wise person once told me "You are not remembered for the problem but what you done about it." 
You have to pay for your education - it is never free. Well last week my education was expensive.


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## MeanWeen

Nice post, lots of good info. Few things that help me.

1. Be honest and fair with Clients and Subs. Don’t be a pushover but be fair. Always be able to go into any situation knowing you have nothing to hide, might not always be correct but always be acting for good of project.

2. Have enough capital in the bank for the project you are working on to go sideways and your business not fold.

3. Pay your subs right away. They usually need it, always appreciate it and will come when you need them.

4. Have a foot in residential and commercial. Both very different, and takes a bit of work. They are very independent of each other in both the volume of work and margins. You should know where the money currently is.

5. Keep a low overhead and be flexible in both your ability to ramp up or down. From what I see, a head office of 3 people should be able to handle over 10 mill a year including estimating, accounting, site management.

6. Respect your employees and treat them fair. Make sure they have proper tools etc.

7. Make sure your site is clean, organized and materials are there.

8. Don’t skimp on material, can be used on next job and costs way more to stop because your out.

9. Don’t go crazy on material.

10. Know when to back your client with the consultants and vice versa.


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## lawndart

MeanWeen said:


> Nice post, lots of good info. Few things that help me.
> 
> 1. Be honest and fair with Clients and Subs. Don’t be a pushover but be fair. Always be able to go into any situation knowing you have nothing to hide, might not always be correct but always be acting for good of project.
> 
> 2. Have enough capital in the bank for the project you are working on to go sideways and your business not fold.
> 
> 3. Pay your subs right away. They usually need it, always appreciate it and will come when you need them.
> 
> 4. Have a foot in residential and commercial. Both very different, and takes a bit of work. They are very independent of each other in both the volume of work and margins. You should know where the money currently is.
> 
> 5. Keep a low overhead and be flexible in both your ability to ramp up or down. From what I see, a head office of 3 people should be able to handle over 10 mill a year including estimating, accounting, site management.
> 
> 6. Respect your employees and treat them fair. Make sure they have proper tools etc.
> 
> 7. Make sure your site is clean, organized and materials are there.
> 
> 8. Don’t skimp on material, can be used on next job and costs way more to stop because your out.
> 
> 9. Don’t go crazy on material.
> 
> 10. Know when to back your client with the consultants and vice versa.


Great advice, but #4 isn't for everybody IMO. Commercial work is risky and there are other ways to add revenue.


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## Seasons

A great read. Would be great help to kids looking to get into the business in the future for an insight on how it goes. 

________________________________
Seasons Contracting LTD
Vancouver BC
www.seasonscontractingltd.com


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## MHElectric

Wow dude. I know this is a 6 year old thread, but it’s got some amazing advice here. Big shout out to all you guys who took the time to pass your knowledge from years of experience around!


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## JBrzoz00

Solid advice. Thanks for posting this.


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