# Re-paint steps...How do you other pros do it?



## bobbyacro (May 11, 2008)

vandyandsons said:


> you boys from KY must know something about this business that big city boys like me don't.
> 
> *I guarantee that my perfect masked lines where the wall meets the baseboard look exponentially better than your freehand lines at the same location.*
> 
> ...


Never understood this, if you can tape a line you can paint it. Why not be more efficient and just paint the crap? Youre right though, cities are the only market where people want painting done quickly, most of the people I talk to out here in the country want it to take as long as possible. Chicago cant even make pizza right, cant imagine their paint jobs. 80 grit?????????? Do you think these guys are painting with a old shoe on their rollers?


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

I have had several guys come from Chicago to here and Paint for me. Most of them do want to use tape on everything just like this thread goes, I was never able to convince them tape was not needed on these things but in the end they no longer work here.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

I could definitely see if you are protecting trim from over spray or splatter from a roller, how this would help, but it would be a tape machine with paper added, not just "tape".


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

The same old arguement has been going on for years. Simple: If the customer wants to see tape on their baseboards thats what they get, they're the ones writing the check. I'm sure most all of us can cut a straight line. Either way the customer wants to see it, it makes no difference to me. Time is never an issue when it comes to protecting surfaces and belongings, and the cost of a roll of tape and masking shouldnt affect your margins if you bid it right.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't mask every job but when I do the time it takes to mask seems to speed up the paint time. Kinda like a washout.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Big Shoe said:


> I don't mask every job but when I do the time it takes to mask seems to speed up the paint time. Kinda like a washout.



Time = Money


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

It is funny when I hear guys say tape is too expensive, I dont get it. I include everything in the quote, if I was painting an exterior and using a helicopter instead of an extension ladder it would not cost me a dime, it is all in the quote. If an HO isnt going to hire me because I had to charge an extra $50 for 10 rolls of tape then that is not someone that I would want to work for.
I include everything in the price, from wear and tear on brushes and rollers, to gas to get to and from the job. Sometimes I cant come up with a price on site because of this, so I guess I am lucky I dont live in KY or Mr.Mike would steal all of my work.
My method is pretty much the same as the OP, I do spot prime any patches before painting though.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Time = Money


 
Wow! That's kind of profound for a Sunday morning Wise.


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## Kayb2 (Mar 1, 2009)

Hi everyone

My name is Kay and I'm a tapeaholic. I used tape on a job once or twice. I just couldn't help it. Please help me.


Now, where are the cookies???:tt2:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

ignoring the differences re: taping, I do it different. Complete all the rolling and cutting at the corners/ceiling/walls, then trim then cut the walls into the trim.

I use a high gloss enamel on the trim and allow it to dry about 2 hours before cutting in the flat wall paint. Once the gloss is dry it takes two coats to cover with the flat but if I cut in while the enamel is tacky it takes one coat. 

As for tape, I use it to measure the job. My preference is fat max.


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

bobbyacro said:


> Never understood this, if you can tape a line you can paint it. Why not be more efficient and just paint the crap? Youre right though, cities are the only market where people want painting done quickly, most of the people I talk to out here in the country want it to take as long as possible. Chicago cant even make pizza right, cant imagine their paint jobs. 80 grit?????????? Do you think these guys are painting with a old shoe on their rollers?


i thought you left us for greener pastures? 

i don't think you are qualified to chime in on any tecnique related posts. 

dude, you painted a bedroom. i did more high end work last week then you have ever done or ever will.

stick with flooring sales.


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

Mellison said:


> Vandy,
> Just a diference in opinion
> Don't get your panties in a bunch.
> NYC is pretty big as well and I have never seen painters here use tape for this purpose.
> ...


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> I have had several guys come from Chicago to here and Paint for me. Most of them do want to use tape on everything just like this thread goes, I was never able to convince them tape was not needed on these things but in the end they no longer work here.



Mr. Mike,

Why don't I believe you?:sad:

Maybe because guys don't leave a market like Chicago to go be a "pro" in Hoot'n'holler Kentucky.

Like I told another guy, I learned this business in one of the biggest 2 shops in the country. 

at over $40,000,000 per year in annual sales....maybe you can learn a thing or two from them about making money like I did

....and they mask base.:thumbup:


no doubt, you can do it your way and surely make it look good. If you are nearly as successful as you represent yourself, you probably do great work.

If you want to be faster and optimize your efficiency, try it my way.


Logic: Is it faster to only cut the walls in sharp, or to cut both the walls and trim in sharp too?:whistling


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> Mr. Mike,
> 
> Why don't I believe you?:sad:
> 
> Maybe because guys don't leave a market like Chicago to go be a "pro" in Hoot'n'holler Kentucky.


Not sure why you don't let me state that the state of Kentucky is not a union over run state like Chicago. How many non union shops do you have in Chicago around 20? and how many is here like 800 and only like 4 union shops. 


You worked for a company that does over 40 million a year, I doubt very seriously that they ever did repaints on high end houses, thats more like a blow and go company that uses tape.

I have never seen or heard of a picket line against painters in Louisville.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> Logic: Is it faster to only cut the walls in sharp, or to cut both the walls and trim in sharp too?:whistling


I paint my trim and get a little on the walls, then I laser line the wall paint to this. The base is done last and with the little bit of wall paint I cut on to it I will now create a straight line with the base paint.

Your doing all this and using tape, I don't understand.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Wow! That's kind of profound for a Sunday morning Wise.


It took some doing, this morning was turbulent.



vandyandsons said:


> i thought you left us for greener pastures?
> 
> i don't think you are qualified to chime in on any tecnique related posts.
> 
> ...



Hey, I got dibs on hammering bobby!


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> I paint my trim and get a little on the walls, then I laser line the wall paint to this. The base is done last and with the little bit of wall paint I cut on to it I will now create a straight line with the base paint.
> 
> Your doing all this and using tape, I don't understand.



Did you say "laserline" a trim line over the baseboard to which you cut the wall paint along?

wtf?

I have been trolled, the point goes to you Mike.

:sad:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> I paint my trim and get a little on the walls, then I laser line the wall paint to this. The base is done last and with the little bit of wall paint I cut on to it I will now create a straight line with the base paint.
> 
> Your doing all this and using tape, I don't understand.


Real painters dont need no stinkin' lasers!


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

I think that the "laserline" is more of a figure of speech. 

Kentucky hasn't discovered lasers yet.

It must be faster to cut the walls sharp at the ceiling, brush the base in semi sharp splashing ever so slightly onto the walls, cut the walls back into the base sharp (laserline), then finally recut the base sharp (laserline) back into the walls.:no:

Your right Mike, that does sound faster and more productive than only cutting the walls in sharp at the ceiling line and at the vertical trim locations.:thumbup:

The shop I was trained at which shall remain nameless, does about 5-10% of it's sales in high end residential repaints. Thats a meager $2-4 million only in high end repaints.

Most shops in Chicago and the Chicagoland area are non-union believe it or not. Some of them are even profitable and are represented by some contractors on this site.

I was union trained over a 3 year apprenticeship. Thourough training in prep, brush & roll, spray, specialty spray, drywall finishing, faux, wood finishing, safety etc...

I know down south where the "pros" handle their business, y'all think that unions are bad, but in my neck of the woods where we don't marry first cousins, unions are quite the pros.

Mike, i think what yo do works for you, nd I know what I do works for me so we may have to agree to disagree.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> It must be faster to cut the walls sharp at the ceiling, brush the base in semi sharp splashing ever so slightly onto the walls, cut the walls back into the base sharp (laserline), then finally recut the base sharp (laserline) back into the walls.:no:



Complete Room:

Paint Ceiling bringing some ceiling paint down on to the wall roughly 1/2 inch.

Paint all wood work except baseboards. Running a little trim paint on to the wall roughly 1/2 inch.

Cut in the walls up to all trim except the base using no tape or fired and leave a line that is so perfect you would think we used a laser. Run some of your cut wall paint over the lip of the baseboards.

Then when the walls are dry paint the stinking base, your little bristles should leave a crisp line along the wall. 

And since we keep going on about this tape, why is there ever a need to use tape on a whole room repaint.:w00t:



> Mike, i think what yo do works for you, nd I know what I do works for me so we may have to agree to disagree.


Yes I do great work, and I am pretty positive you do as well. It will be Ok if we agree to disagree on this and a few other things I am sure we can find something else to agree on in the future.


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## Schmidt & Co (Jun 2, 2008)

bobbyacro said:


> Never understood this, if you can tape a line you can paint it. Why not be more efficient and just paint the crap? Youre right though, cities are the only market where people want painting done quickly, most of the people I talk to out here in the country want it to take as long as possible. Chicago cant even make pizza right, cant imagine their paint jobs. 80 grit?????????? Do you think these guys are painting with a old shoe on their rollers?


Can't make pizza right? Them is fighting words!


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I learned from a old timer(Ray Howell 48 years Painting, Union Contrator) and we always used oil base paints and we also cut in first that's the rule of oil,drywall was all primed with latex, all the trim was preped enamel under coated and ready for finish paint, we would roll out the ceilings let it set up then back roll, the same was done for walls, after we rolled out walls a cut in guy would come behind the guys rolling and lay the base off, then we would paint trim the next day all oil base enamel semi gloss, the only time we used tape was if you had cabinets right next to trim, but most of the time you had better be free handing it, cause Ray didn't believe a Painter needed tape for cutting in. So I learn to cut in straight lines, can still do it today.:thumbsup:


www.frankawitz.net


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

Mr. Mike said:


> Complete Room:
> 
> Paint Ceiling bringing some ceiling paint down on to the wall roughly 1/2 inch.
> 
> ...



That is the exact sequence we use.
It is fast and efficient (we make money)
The lines are just perfect. We even guarantee straight lines in our proposal.


> _Lines between different finishes and colours will be true and sharp._


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Painters are our new plumbers....We need more spin off threads.


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

meh, I tape my baseboards only. 
I do so in order to protect the baseboard from roller spatter, _*not*_ to create a "straight line". How on earth does one not see the value of applying 1 1/2" tape along the bsaeboard in order to prevent the inevitable spatter?


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> That is the exact sequence we use.
> It is fast and efficient (we make money)
> The lines are just perfect. We even guarantee straight lines in our proposal.


I make the prospect visualize the straight lines, I always point at the ceiling and trim and say at the same time, when we get done you will have very straight crisp lines every where, this house will become a show room. Do you have any questions before we move on to your pricing?

Chicago does make great pizzas, I drive 5 hours away to come eat them at a moments notice. I do know the painters are not moving here for a painting job :w00t:, they always have a reason like family or what have you. We have a lot of folks from Chicago here in Louisville and a lot of Louisville folks living in Chicago we are like family. I don't know why Louisville is so much smarter and Chicago thinks they know everything but it makes for interesting conversations.:clap:


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Complete Room:
> 
> Paint Ceiling bringing some ceiling paint down on to the wall roughly 1/2 inch.
> 
> ...


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> meh, I tape my baseboards only.
> I do so in order to protect the baseboard from roller spatter, _*not*_ to create a "straight line". How on earth does one not see the value of applying 1 1/2" tape along the bsaeboard in order to prevent the inevitable spatter?



Easy Wise,

We all know you don't need tape to get a crisp line.:notworthy

I mask my base for the same reason....but I do like the line it leaves too.


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

vandyandsons said:


> Mellison said:
> 
> 
> > Vandy,
> ...


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Easy Cap,
Pull in the horses. I think there was some confusion here early on. They are all confused. We are doing it all right here in KY. and Canada this trade must of started in Chicago and if you do what you always did you will get what you always got.


It is faster to tape than to paint! 100% sure of it! However if you are going to be painting the base boards taping them is overkill. :w00t:


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

easy hillbilly,

i thought we put this to bed yesterday.

before you get all crazy patting yourself on the back, 2 man days in one room is nothing spectacular. 

besides, i call BS on 2 counts-
1) Did you really apply 3 coats on the base in 12 minutes?
2) No splatter or fine sprinkle on your base?

on a one day rush job, I would have to cut in the trim too but i dont like doing it that way.

have fun french kissing your cousin Jed


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Vand,

Do you have any Kentucky in you?

Just joking, thanks for posting.


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## willworkforbeer (Mar 7, 2009)

vandyandsons said:


> *Step 2*) Vigorously stick sand


I dint read this whole thread but stick sand? On a repaint? What?


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

willworkforbeer said:


> I dint read this whole thread but stick sand? On a repaint? What?


I want my finish to be free of boogers that are in the current finish left over from the previous painter...or more likely the HO.
Quick swipe to knock it all smooth.


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

Yes sand the base and dust it off and then paint it.

I use a duster and some may use a stick cloth both should be ok.


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## StefanC (Apr 14, 2009)

willworkforbeer said:


> I dint read this whole thread but stick sand? On a repaint? What?


Absolutely, takes 5 minutes a room.


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## Riverside Paint (Sep 16, 2006)

Cut and roll ceiling

Cut and roll walls

Paint trim

2" blue tape always applied to base prior to rolling walls

we mostly do high end repaints, use deep base colors roughly 30% of the time. taping baseboards is a time saver. it takes no time, and it looks way better than when we dont tape baseboards. 

one specific reason i like to tape baseboards is because i like to run the roller alllll the way down the wall, i actually bounce the cover off the top of the base. after a room has been rolled, i have a trade mark finish technique that im afraid i cant share with the class but rest assured, its pretty damn slick and impossible to achieve without using tape.


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## StefanC (Apr 14, 2009)

Whiz roll the edges....


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Vand,
> 
> Do you have any Kentucky in you?
> 
> Just joking, thanks for posting.



:laughing::laughing:


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

Mr. Mike said:


> Yes sand the base and dust it off and then paint it.
> 
> I use a duster and some may use a stick cloth both should be ok.


I think we were referring to sanding the walls actually. Ya know, a sanding head screwed to a rolling pole or something of the like. You know what we're talking about.

I agree though Mr. Mike, trim should be sanded and dusted before painting.


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

vandyandsons said:


> easy hillbilly,
> 
> i thought we put this to bed yesterday.
> 
> ...


I dont think I said 3 coats in 12 min. I think I said 12 min for a coat but I guess us hillbilly's expect people in Chicago to know how to read. Call bull**** all you want, I didnt see any spinkle anywhere I guess Im just a pimp like that. Besides I am 3 coating the base anyways and NO it doesnt leave big bumps you crazy ass "prima donnas"


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## vandyandsons (Dec 23, 2008)

If you refer back to your initial response, you said that you painted the base in 12 minutes. You stated later in said response that you 3 coated the base.

I used my powers of deduction and figured that you 3 coated the base because you wrote that you did.

Pimp, I can read just fine. You do, however, struggle to express yourself through the written word.

Cap, you have your way and you make good time at it. I have my way and also make good time at it. 

ps. In this equation, would the primma donna be the one who masks his base off when possible, or the one who brags about freehanding it?


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I never realized painters were so feisty! I just put in 500 lf crown molding and other trim upgrades in a 2200 sq. ft. home. The painter they hired is apparently "top drawer". He started prep work, just as we were finishing up. He sanded every inch of all the walls with a 5" palm sander. I was impressed how smooth the walls came out. We usually just use a pole sander. But his way produced a superior job. Oh, and he doesn't tape anything, his cut work was flawless, and did the baseboards last. As a side bar, he uses Sico paint, seems real good.


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## Paul Painter (Apr 23, 2009)

*Tape??*

Tape makes a mess..the only time I use tape is when Im masking a job and getting it ready to spray!!


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## ClosetPro (Apr 29, 2009)

"To tape or not to tape - that is the question."


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## WisePainter (Sep 16, 2008)

ClosetPro said:


> "To tape or not to tape - that is the question."


Coke or Pepsi 
Burger King or McDonald's
Mac or PC

_Those_ are questions...


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