# Am I stuck paying for this



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

I had to rent a 20-ton hoe with a hammer on it demo a 24" foundation.
Night work, so equipment was delivered late in the day. Sent 2 of my guys to go receive it since it was at a mall and foot traffic is heavy.

Take a look at what they brought me. The flat part of the tip was measured just shy of 3" x 3", literally flat.
Decided to try it out and of course it did not work.
Talked to them the following morning to sharpen it or replace the bit and went to bed.

Argued with them after getting up that their tech went out there and there's nothing wrong with the machine or the hammer.
Said they didn't have an extra bit to replace.
I said can't you just sharpen it and get me by tonight. "no, but we ordered a new bit but it won't be here for another 3 days, and besides, that machine is too small for the job"
So I said last time I rented this machine, I demo'd a 5ft thick crane pad in 2 days. The machine is more than capable!
"Well, that's how it's supposed to be",
Well, when you buy a new bit, does it come flat from the manufacturer? There has to be a point on it so it can slip past the rebar and keep going!
"I spoke with my tech and he says there's nothing wrong with it"
I told them his tech was crazy, and he's crazier for believing him, blind leading the blind!
Tried it again that night, and it just wasn't working so I told them to come get their POS as it's cost me enough money, not to mention possibly screwing up concrete guy's schedule if demo doesn't get done.

Ended up getting a komatsu 140 with a hammer from another company and finished the job with the smaller machine.

After the job was done, I called them and told them don't send me a bill because I'm not paying it. Your equipment did nothing but cost me money.

Just got a bill the other day for 2300 bucks. Unbelievable.

It is, however, our fault that my guys received it without inspecting the hammer, or letting me know about it.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Not your fault. It isn't as if that happened overnight, it was obviously delivered like that.

Not suitable for use.

Success with the smaller Komatsu and good hammer pretty much seals it. Get pics of the Komatsu hammer just in case.


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

My mistake, it was a volvo.

Pretty normal wear for a used bit, but the tip was still effective. Worked circles around the other one.

I was actually in denial for a bit that they would say to me what they did.
They ain't no johnny-come-lately in the rental industry. Starts with a U.....


----------



## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Nothing wrong with that bit, it’s for tamping. lol


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

8 don't think there us any question you received it in unacceptable condition, they can't really claim you ruined the hammer.

Their guy didn't catch that the tip was no good, either. You caught it, let them know, and they did nothing. It should have been ready to go when it arrived. 

There's a good chance they already knew it was no good, and rented it to you any way. Probably have the hammer on order.

I wouldn't pay.


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Sunbelt may be a lot of things but I call them with a legit complaint, my bill always gets adjusted.
I'll be calling the salesman back to argue, but I already know where they stand. 
You would think it's easier to just make a customer happy, then it is to find new customers.
I, for one, am done. Too many other guys vying for my business.


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

2,300 bucks? What was the rental rate?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeStanton (Sep 24, 2008)

I would not pay and raise hell until you get to upper staff. That's unacceptable and with night work can cost a fortune. If it's the company I'm thinking just keep yelling until you get what you want. I flipped out on them years ago as a lift a rented died (oh we can have a new one there in 3 days). Nope, I got one with 2 hours and a discount once I got to the right people.

The salesman are slimeballs and don't give a rat's ass. Tough spot, I wish you luck my man.


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Rental rate was too damn much.
They wanted to charge me for 2 days. 995 for the hoe and 815 for the breaker per day.
Plus taxes and fees.


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

JoeStanton said:


> I would not pay and raise hell until you get to upper staff. That's unacceptable and with night work can cost a fortune. If it's the company I'm thinking just keep yelling until you get what you want. I flipped out on them years ago as a lift a rented died (oh we can have a new one there in 3 days). Nope, I got one with 2 hours and a discount once I got to the right people.
> 
> The salesman are slimeballs and don't give a rat's ass. Tough spot, I wish you luck my man.


Night work is the worst! 
But I'm used to it as a demo guy, with all the dust and noise, have to work off-hours sometimes.
Some of these GCs sit there and question your costs, but one little thing goes wrong and your whole night is shot. Can't get a tech out there, nobody answers their phones, etc (and understandably so). So you gotta make sure you pad your number a bit more. 

My hydraulic hose guy is a godsend. Answers his phone 24hrs and can get there within the hour. He's not cheap at 3am tho.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Simple resolution to whether or not it was suitable to work with for your application... take a pic of a new bit, next to the one that was provided... machine rental is useless without the parts that make it work... 

Add to it, you contacted them right away, and they said they were going to order a new bit, and the onus is on them... if you want to make the point clearer, send them a bill for down operations due to their rental not having the equipment necessary to operate for the purpose of the rental...


----------



## JoeStanton (Sep 24, 2008)

The only people I've found cheap at 3 a.m, I've had to see a doctor later. Rental equipment should be top notch, that's what you pay for. I would go to the office and raise hell, I do well yelling until I get what I want. $500 would be the best I would pay for that pos. Not sure if they have a Herc rental around you but they have been good.

I would also get a salesman if you do enough business with the rental co.


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

JoeStanton said:


> The only people I've found cheap at 3 a.m, I've had to see a doctor later. Rental equipment should be top notch, that's what you pay for. I would go to the office and raise hell, I do well yelling until I get what I want. $500 would be the best I would pay for that pos. Not sure if they have a Herc rental around you but they have been good.
> 
> I would also get a salesman if you do enough business with the rental co.


The volvo 140 I got was from Herc. They were waaaay more helpful.

These other guys had been hounding me for almost a year to do business with them. I had demo'd 2 crane pads in the summer with a 200 excavator, and all went well. I was going to gradually give them more business, until this happened. 
But yea, I don't have a long history with them.

The other thing that was strange was when I called the salesman to complain, almost all his answers were "I gotta call my office". Maybe he was a new guy. When I call my sunbelt guy bitching, it's his call and it gets solved with him.


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Pompanosix said:


> Rental rate was too damn much.
> They wanted to charge me for 2 days. 995 for the hoe and 815 for the breaker per day.
> Plus taxes and fees.


Jeez. Those are typical weekly rates around here.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

VinylHanger said:


> Jeez. Those are typical weekly rates around here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Had money in it so I'm ok paying for it, so long as it works.


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

I've had the hammer itself needing nitrogen recharge, wouldn't hammer worth a sh!t!.

If you were doing slab work 8 inches or thinner, that blunt point would work if attached to a good hammer



Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

dayexco said:


> I've had the hammer itself needing nitrogen recharge, wouldn't hammer worth a sh!t!.
> 
> If you were doing slab work 8 inches or thinner, that blunt point would work if attached to a good hammer
> 
> ...


I actually had small section of sidewalk next to the foundation that also needed to come out. That is the only thing that hammer could break.
Not that I needed it for the sidewalk. The 320 could peel that sidewalk like a banana.

Sux because it was actually a really good hammer, hoses didn't hop or bounce.
And it was mounted on a JD 200 with less than 1k hours.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

So what happened?


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

Pompanosix said:


> I actually had small section of sidewalk next to the foundation that also needed to come out. That is the only thing that hammer could break.
> Not that I needed it for the sidewalk. The 320 could peel that sidewalk like a banana.
> 
> Sux because it was actually a really good hammer, hoses didn't hop or bounce.
> And it was mounted on a JD 200 with less than 1k hours.


If you were doing slab work and it wasn't going, I'd have more of a tendency to blame the hammer itself and not the point.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


----------



## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Not sure about the legalities, but I'd tell them to stuff that bill where the sun don't shine, and never use them again. You want that money? Sue me for it. "Yes your honor, the equipment they delivered was non-functional, they wouldn't rectify the situation, and I had to get another one elsewhere - which cost me X downtime" Make sure it's all documented in as much detail as possible.

Also might be a good time to phone your attorney and see what he says.


----------



## Djea3 (Jul 6, 2020)

I Agree, BILL THEM FOR ALL DOWN TIME INCLUDING EMPLOYEE WAGES AND OVERHEAD. IF YOU LOST BONUS FOR EARLY COMPLETION, CHARGE THEM THAT AS WELL.
Then let the music play on. Either they will sue you or you can sue them, or use the credit with them in rental. 
Do not let them bill you without responding with a bill of our own, be sure and add YOUR PERSONAL time as well as your men's time at your management rate.


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

KAP said:


> So what happened?


Thanks to all for all the good advice.
Here's what happened:

Evidently, while I was up in Blue Ridge in Oct, the bill was paid even though I told them I was going to fight it. Sux coz it took away some of my leverage. 
After getting back, had another talk with my salesman and they kept sticking to their story! 
Asked for contact for district manager and they took their time getting it to me so I went online and started looking.
Took me a while but finally found a contact for the SE Regional VP
To his credit, he was a lot more receptive, apologized, and promised me he'll make it right.

An hour later, the district manager called me and offered full credit.


----------



## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Woo Hoo! That's great news. I had a crappy day today and this cheered me right up. 🤓

Good for you to chase it down and hold the line. 👍


----------



## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

JoeStanton said:


> I would not pay and raise hell until you get to upper staff. That's unacceptable and with night work can cost a fortune. If it's the company I'm thinking just keep yelling until you get what you want. I flipped out on them years ago as a lift a rented died (oh we can have a new one there in 3 days). Nope, I got one with 2 hours and a discount once I got to the right people.
> 
> The salesman are slimeballs and don't give a rat's ass. Tough spot, I wish you luck my man.


This. Keep going until you talk to the right person.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Pompanosix said:


> This. Keep going until you talk to the right person.


See post #22...


----------

