# Electrician told me $50 an hour and then tried to bill me $100 an hour



## englishdave (Apr 14, 2008)

How would you handle this one. 

I met an elecrician on a job a while back. Seemed like a nice personable kind of guy and efficient at what he does, so I got a card off him before I left.

I called him up to help me out with an electrical problem that I knew was half a day at most, he came along for 3 hours and charged me $180, and off he went. So far so good.

So I called him up again to come and look at some electical on a renovation that I'm on with. He had a look and we agreed on $50 an hour. He would put in a larger sub panel and run some cable etc...

He came over for 3 hours one evening, then 3 1/2 the following night and then he phoned me up this evening just as I was packing up to leave to say he'd be coming over again at 5pm and that he wanted $600 for the previous 2 trips? 

I'm not sure what kind of math that is 50x6.5=325 not 600. So I said erm hang on, whats that about? to which he says that he worked fast that night and it was late so he doubled his rate? :clap: (coming to the job late was his choice btw)

I said come on we said $50ph... to which he dropped the price to 400 which is still $75 over what we agreed on, I didn't argue too much over that, I just thought lets get it done and then throw his card in the bin. But after I hung up I thought about it and called him back up to say I didn't have time tonight so lets do it next week

To be honest I was ready to tell the guy to go shove his head up his ass. I can't believe the crap some people come out with. 

Would you get him over to do the last 5 or so hours or tell him to take a walk?


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## FHS (Apr 24, 2010)

Ok, the main question and answer is....did you have contract?

No=tough cookies.
Yes= What did the contract state?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Yes, your contract says what with him?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

FHS said:


> Ok, the main question and answer is....did you have contract?
> 
> No=tough cookies.
> Yes= What did the contract state?


Thats kind of a cheap generic response which is used over and over again. Just pay the guy and find a new one.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

OK, I've gotta NOT defend my fellow sparky on this one. If he agreed to a certain rate, then that's what it should be. It makes NO difference how fast he worked if he was on T&M. That's what quoted, fixed contract amount contracts are for. In that case, if he works faster, he makes more money per hour.

No Materials though?????

As far as finishing a job that he has already started though, I think you should let him do it.

Us electricians develop a plan and have very distinct reasons for running every single wire during a rough in. If you have someone come in after him to finish up, the second guy will waste a lot of time trying to figure out the first one's game plan, then make changes according to what HE wants, then salvage what was done. Been there and done that lots of times (as the second guy)

After that, I'd toss his info.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Thats kind of a cheap generic response which is used over and over again. Just pay the guy and find a new one.


While I agree with that all disputes can be settled by simply pointing to what the contract says.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> While I agree with that all disputes can be settled by simply pointing to what the contract says.


Dually noted. Its just over and over and over. The perfect contract would be the length of war and piece. In the real world everything else should be handled with respect, decency, educated discretion.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

A handshake is a contract. If you agreed to $50/hr that's what you give him. As long as he wasn't providing any materials.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I don't think an eight hour job done T&M would require a contract.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> Us electricians develop a plan and have very distinct reasons for running every single wire during a rough in. If you have someone come in after him to finish up, the second guy will waste a lot of time trying to figure out the first one's game plan, then make changes according to what HE wants, then salvage what was done. *Been there and done that lots of times (as the second guy)*


Me too, me too! :thumbsup:

I agree with Ron regarding the above. As for flat out dumping the guy, I think I'd have a come-to-Jesus moment with him on payday to see if we couldn't get something stabilized for a future relationship. If not, sayanora.

And for the pat answers, of course a contract is good. Where I come from, a handshake should be and usually is just as good.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Fifty/hour is Fifty/hour. How the hell do you know, (or him for that matter), how "fast" he was working? 

Does he have a speedometer strapped to his backside?


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I know a sparky who will work for $30/ hour. But he works at triple speed so.....


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Warren said:


> I don't think an eight hour job done T&M would require a contract.


Yeah unfortunately it does. Earlier this year a customer had miscellaneous repairs to get done to his house regarding roofing, windows, siding. Told him we would do it time & materials. 

Sent to two guys there. Should've took 6 hours but homeowner changed things, wanted this done, then that so it took 9 hours.

I sent him an invoice for 18 hours and receipts for materials. He called, said invoice was wrong and that the guys were only there for 9 hours. I told him I know and that's why he was billed for 18 hours and I had to explain it to him. Luckily the contract clearly said time and materials at XX per man hour.

I got the check two days later.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I disagree Bam. You just had an uneducated homeowner there. Not to mention, this isn't a homeowner/ contractor dispute here. It is contractor/subcontractor. Both guys should understand the normal procedures here.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Yeah unfortunately it does. Earlier this year a customer had miscellaneous repairs to get done to his house regarding roofing, windows, siding. Told him we would do it time & materials.
> 
> Sent to two guys there. Should've took 6 hours but homeowner changed things, wanted this done, then that so it took 9 hours.
> 
> ...


Whats the xx for you? Im running at $45.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Where I come from, a handshake should be and usually is just as good.


That or email correspondence. (That you actually save :whistling)

Most jobs less than 3K or so, I try to document via email. If in person, I have them sign off on an estimate that states the terms, and then a handshake.

The biggies all require a contract. Mine is 7-12 pages long depending on the scope.

The initial expense of having an attorney design my invoices, estimates, sub agreements, and contracts has evidently paid off since I have very few problems in this regard.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

A verbal contract is a contract, if someone tells me 50 bucks an hour and then give me a bill for 100 bucks an hour...guess what I'll still only pay you 50 bucks an hour.

:thumbsup:


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

So what is it? 50/ for half speed, 100/ for full speed?


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Have him finish and give him a check for 50$ an hour. He can cash it or not. Problem solved.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Tell him to slow down then.


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## barry1219 (Oct 8, 2011)

Had a buddy who was a plumber ask me for work..I had a commercial job come up and I gave him a call. Converted a dentist office to an urgent care facility..nothing major for him to do except cap about 20 water lines because each office/cubicle had a sink and fixtures for the tools a dentist needs. We do a walk through and I tell him flat out " I have $500 budgeted for this part of the demo & I will have all drywall removed in the areas to be capped"...he says " that is $50 an hour..if it takes me more than 6 hours I am doing something wrong"..I said ok and you have access all weekend.

 Late Friday I get a call asking me if I am keeping the rugs in the offices by my plumber buddy...because he only turned off one main line and this was 2 units combined into one office space...which means he started to cap lines while water was on in half the office space. Not a huge deal I said..accidents happen & the rugs will dry and be steam cleaned before opening. He calls me Sunday evening to tell me he will be done for me to proceed as scheduled Monday. I said good.
Get in Monday the garbage cans for the area we were demo'ing had at least 18 empty beer bottles in them. I had him come up to see me after he was done with work that Monday night to settle up with him and he explains that he had to get someone in to help him finish on time and I would need to add 3 hours for that guy. I said no I don't, you need to adjust your hourly rate to pay him out of your end. He said but you wanted it ready for Monday. I said you have access all weekend and you agreed it was 6 hours work that I was paying you for 10 at $50 an hour for. He started to get upset. At which point he said I had $170 extra in materials he needed to do the work. Again I said that is not my end. We walked to job and you said there was no material needed except for about 20 1/2" caps. Literally $12 worth of material if that.

Anyway I can see he is getting upset, partly because I feel that it is something I encounter from time to time. The part where they figure you are making so much $$$ on the job or their work and you can afford it or something. This was a friend mind you and we had a longer personal relationship than business relationship previous to this. I can see that this is not going to end well and internally make a decision to pay him all he said he asked for. 
I write out a check for $670 and tell him that covers the job plus materials and he can pay his helper out of that. He looks confused and I said even though we agreed to $500 and you are not the GC you accepted a job as a sub and you agreed to complete the job for that price. I did not change anything requested, you exceeded any material budget you stated you needed, you left beer bottles on the job ( I don't care if he drinks or not just don't leave it for everyone to think I do or my guys do), you flooded 2 office spaces as well. I have every right to dock your pay if I wanted to as a customer would to me if I ran my end like you run yours. 
I also want you to know that you will never work for my company again. We are still friends and that was 4 years ago. He actually called me last week to let me know that he is on his own now ( not working for a plumber) and would appreciate another chance to work for me. I said I will see what I can do ( not going to happen).


Cliffs notes : agreed to price
buddy screwed up
overcharged me
paid him his money
told him to never expect more work from me
still a buddy..just not as close.


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

everything has been pretty much stated so ill add my two cents...punch him in the face.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

blackbear said:


> everything has been pretty much stated so ill add my two cents...punch him in the face.


Nice


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

barry1219 said:


> Had a buddy who was a plumber ask me for work..I had a commercial job come up and I gave him a call. Converted a dentist office to an urgent care facility..nothing major for him to do except cap about 20 water lines because each office/cubicle had a sink and fixtures for the tools a dentist needs. We do a walk through and I tell him flat out " I have $500 budgeted for this part of the demo & I will have all drywall removed in the areas to be capped"...he says " that is $50 an hour..if it takes me more than 6 hours I am doing something wrong"..I said ok and you have access all weekend.
> Late Friday I get a call asking me if I am keeping the rugs in the offices by my plumber buddy...because he only turned off one main line and this was 2 units combined into one office space...which means he started to cap lines while water was on in half the office space. Not a huge deal I said..accidents happen & the rugs will dry and be steam cleaned before opening. He calls me Sunday evening to tell me he will be done for me to proceed as scheduled Monday. I said good. Get in Monday the garbage cans for the area we were demo'ing had at least 18 empty beer bottles in them. I had him come up to see me after he was done with work that Monday night to settle up with him and he explains that he had to get someone in to help him finish on time and I would need to add 3 hours for that guy. I said no I don't, you need to adjust your hourly rate to pay him out of your end. He said but you wanted it ready for Monday. I said you have access all weekend and you agreed it was 6 hours work that I was paying you for 10 at $50 an hour for. He started to get upset. At which point he said I had $170 extra in materials he needed to do the work. Again I said that is not my end. We walked to job and you said there was no material needed except for about 20 1/2" caps. Literally $12 worth of material if that. Anyway I can see he is getting upset, partly because I feel that it is something I encounter from time to time. The part where they figure you are making so much $$$ on the job or their work and you can afford it or something. This was a friend mind you and we had a longer personal relationship than business relationship previous to this. I can see that this is not going to end well and internally make a decision to pay him all he said he asked for. I write out a check for $670 and tell him that covers the job plus materials and he can pay his helper out of that. He looks confused and I said even though we agreed to $500 and you are not the GC you accepted a job as a sub and you agreed to complete the job for that price. I did not change anything requested, you exceeded any material budget you stated you needed, you left beer bottles on the job ( I don't care if he drinks or not just don't leave it for everyone to think I do or my guys do), you flooded 2 office spaces as well. I have every right to dock your pay if I wanted to as a customer would to me if I ran my end like you run yours. I also want you to know that you will never work for my company again.
> We are still friends and that was 4 years ago. He actually called me last week to let me know that he is on his own now ( not working for a plumber) and would appreciate another chance to work for me. I said I will see what I can do ( not going to happen).
> Cliffs notes : agreed to price
> ...


 Paragraphs are our friend.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

I hate that kind of BS, so as RS said you are pregnant with the guy, he knows you all now have a dispute over pay, if you have him finish I suspect you will get to experience his slow speed. 

Say what you are going to do and then just fricken do what you said. Why can't folks just follow the rules and skip the drama.


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## 20 and Out (Apr 11, 2010)

:laughing:


blackbear said:


> everything has been pretty much stated so ill add my two cents...punch him in the face.


:laughing:


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

I had a plumber try that on me once, I told him to get fugged with a big smile on my face :thumbup:


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## Satman40 (Mar 14, 2011)

So when he finishes the job give him $25.00 an hour and tell him he was working a little slow...must be getting tired or old.... you had no problem paying him extra when he did production....:whistling

Turn about is fair play.....Kiss my grits...:clap:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

moorewarner said:


> Paragraphs are our friend.


I was going to say the same thing and decide to scroll down. Thanks for beating me to it.

Barry I didn't read your post because it lacked paragraphs. Insert some spacing and I'll give it a second shot.

Thanks!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree with Ron, and I am not kissing his butt. He is a Sparky and knows what he is talking about. A few years back I was helping an electrician with a similar situation, and it was a nightmare. Cost the GC thousands to get it all sorted out. Pay the guy the $400, have him finish and be done.

Now you know why he is asking before he finished, got you by the huevos.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Well here lies the big problem with T&M unless all the terms are set up front. You said he was on the job 3 hours one night, and 3.5 on another. 6.5 hours, right? How much time did it take him to get to the job from his shop? While not discussed, it could be his policy to charge travel.

For less then a full day, I have to charge travel time, or a service call fee - whatever you want to call it. If the guy is legitimate and carries all his insurance, and charges 50 an hour, only for hours actually on site, he is not even making wages when all is said and done.

I would always prefer to work on a set price over T & M, that way there are no misunderstandings.


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## Satman40 (Mar 14, 2011)

We bill for travel time, and clean up time.....but we do not charge extra if we work fast...that is BS....


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Satman40 said:


> We bill for travel time, and clean up time.....but we do not charge extra if we work fast...that is BS....


I agree, BS charging to move faster. 

When a new guy comes on and eventually gets to the part where it's time to train him in the art of understand what you are worth, I explain that you don't charge less because you can "do it faster". You charge more because you are:

1) A professional trained to complete the task the right way
2) Can expedite the project in an efficient manner
3) Has experience that enables quick and precise execution when problem solving unforeseen issues

All of these can equal a faster on site time, but instead of in relation to one's own work, speed it is comparable to others that are not as qualified as you.

He should have charged more per hour, and better yet, like TX said, charged for the job. I have had several panels replaced and sub panels installed by my sparky and never has he charged me by the hour. I get a verbal quote and he has always stuck to his word. There was even one instance that I knew it was taking him longer than he had planned and since he was also paying another guy I knew that he was not making the money he planned. I paid him an extra $100. He refused it at first, but had not choice when I told him I only had one check with me and that I had already filled it out.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

This business has too many of this kind d of people who think like this.

Offer him what you agreed too and tell him to take it or leave it


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

Pay him the $50 per then wave bye-bye. Once had a father & son carpenter team who agreed to repair some gutters and wood fascia for an agreed to and signed price. After the fact, the dad calls me at my office to say his bill was several hundred higher than he had agreed to. After reminding him of our agreement (he did nothing more than what was agreed and no material costs) he said he was coming to my office with a baseball bat to bust my skull open after he was finished undoing the repair work he had done.

After I reminded him that the customer was the (then) Hennipen County Sheriff and that his threats to both harm me and undo the repairs on the Sheriffs house would probably land him in jail - he slammed the phone down and hung up on me. After Dad hung up on me, the son, who was a 6' 5" big, dopey galoot came storming into my office (bat less) and wanted to get into it with me. I called his dad back and put the big dummy on the phone so Dad could enlighten him.

He left...Next morning the dad, who at this point was sure he was going to jail, called me nice as could be and all apologetic saying he had re-read the agreement and was fine accepting WHAT HE HAD AGREED TO and would I pretty please have his check ready for pick up later that morning.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

I think you handled it perfectly. 

I've been there a few times, it's best to pay the extra money and keep moving on. For a few bucks the guy is out a lot of future work (he's an idiot).


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## Sam60 (Apr 29, 2006)

Tell him if he cant make and honor a simple agreement you cant work with him.
Ask him if he charges less than the $50.00 if he works slow. Since he can charge more when he works fast.

Find someone honest even if it cost more.


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## Tower (Nov 3, 2011)

Where do you find a licensed electrician willing to work for $50/hr?


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## Splinter hands (Aug 31, 2011)

Ill just add piss in his coffee when he is not looking :whistling:laughing::laughing:


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## Electricmanscot (Feb 6, 2005)

What did you expect from a guy that said he charges fifty bucks an hour? He's obviously not too bright. :laughing:


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