# Kerdi / Wedi Vs. Traditional



## tenon0774

markpage said:


> My tile guy used a Kerdi drain on the last tile shower we did. I thought it was pretty slick.
> 
> What really constitutes a traditional shower install? I tend to embrace "new" technologies so the Kerdi-type system (sorry if it should be called something else) for walls and floors appeals to me, could be all the marketing they do...., but I am not at all opposed to learning something especially if there are real benefits to my clients.


Traditional shower install? :whistling

Depends on who you talk to:

There are guys here that still do hot mop pans all the way through guys that do Wedi/Kerdi/Schluter.

I like the PVC liners with a traditional mud floor on top. Having read a few entries of this post and some other posts, I like the idea of a "block" curb. For the walls, wonderboard or hardi.

...but this is the system that I know, without using the "magic red" or "magic green".

In my humble and honest opinion, I have not used a Kerdi/Wedi/Schluter system, yet;

So, in fairness, I will not "poo-poo" these systems. I will not recommend them either, because they are not "what I know".

I have some "opinions" about the system I use, which is more "traditional" than the K/W/S, system and have no problem discussing why...

...If you are interested.

This is the system "I would use in my house."

Do what you are most comfortable with. :thumbsup:

-Scott


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## markpage

Thanks Scott. 

I will use what I am most comfortable with, I am just trying to get a little education, to make my decision. 

What, in your opinion, is the advantage to the floor system you use over say a preformed foam pan? This is the type of discussion I am looking to have. Pros and Cons, so I can decide what I feel is best.

Thanks everyone for weighing in. 

BTW. Maybe my revised question should have been: What would you use on your own home that you plan to live in forever IF time and cost weren't significant factors. HA ha. :laughing:

I know what you mean about using leftovers, I save more stuff than I care to think about.


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## CO762

markpage said:


> Maybe my revised question should have been: What would you use on your own home that you plan to live in forever IF time and cost weren't significant factors.


Heck, that's an easy one--I'd fly in my bud from CA and have him build me a full mud one while I watch, drinking beer, throwing things at him.

In one building, I used red, green, and blue waterproofing, both red and green on one floor in one room. I like the black stuff and the white stuff, though not the smell so much. I need to get more flavors so I can come up with some great designs going.


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## KAP

Mark,

It comes down to cost vs. benefit and as a GC that is what's most important to you... the reason a lot of guys embrace kerdi/wedi/noble is it works as a system, is time-tested and you can be installing tile the next day after water test/inspections... With mud, you lose a week between the pre-slope, the membrane, the water test, the inspection, the mud base, and THEN you get to tile... the trade-off with the systems is that they cost between $400-$600 for the system... so as a contractor or GC, this directly impacts how many jobs you can perform in a year...

Both ways of doing it are fine... Last bathroom job we did was a hybrid... mud on the floor, and hydroban on the floor as liner and walls... hadn't used hydroban as a liner yet, but both the manufacturer and the inspectors said it was all good... something to consider, the systems come with a warranty from the manufacturer... mud is all you... In our case, we ARE the warranty, but if you are one of those guys who only offer a 1-year warranty on tile, the manufacturer warranty is a bonus for the customer...

Been doing bathrooms for decades, and have seen pretty much all the methods, although not all manufacturers... I am interested in trying Wedi next... but this was a transition for me, because we always did mud... I remember when green-board was used in showers and the concept of water-proofing was caulk in the corners... :laughing:

That said, if we were a full-time bathroom company there would be no question which we would do... mud simply takes longer so you can't fit as many jobs in a year, which costs YOU money... 

But being that we rarely do only one project at a time in a home, we make it all work schedule wise... 

Best of luck... 8^)


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## JHC

Wedi system is faster to rough in. A lot faster. Should be considered as part of the discussion.


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## GO Remodeling

WEDI has a lot of advantages. Lighter material means you can carry more which means less trips back and forth. It can be scratched without causing a leak. No build up in the corners. Makes niches a breeze. It's not gypsum based.It's faster to install so you get to start the next job sooner. Those extra days add up to more jobs that year.

I haven't used the pre-made bases yet. But I have used the pre-made curbs.


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## Dutchman Tile

from my experience I prefer mud walls over wedi or backerboard walls. I feel it provides a superior product with flatter walls and makes installing tile less complicated. It does take more time for the install but I believe in this weird business strategy of "quality over quantity". I embrace new technology when it works and wedi / backerboard work very well. I just pride myself on perfectly FLAT walls.

In past years I find it to be more stable surface to mount grab bars for the elderly. Backerboar/wedi does flex more even when the wall is fully installed with tile. 

Reading from other post in this forum I have found that HOT MOP is mostly a So. Cal. thing. Hot Mop with deck mud is the only method I use for a shower pan.


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## srwcontracting

What are your guys thoughts mixing brands? I like wedi board, the noble pro base and Kerdi band for sealing the base to walls and then the wedi caulk for everything else


Could this even be allowed!!!

Just used the Kerdi board and shower pan kit. Didn't really like either one. The membrane for a pan just seems too thin


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## Ethos

srwcontracting said:


> What are your guys thoughts mixing brands? I like wedi board, the noble pro base and Kerdi band for sealing the base to walls and then the wedi caulk for everything else
> 
> 
> Could this even be allowed!!!
> 
> Just used the Kerdi board and shower pan kit. Didn't really like either one. The membrane for a pan just seems too thin


You've probably seen me harp on using a combination of Wedi / Denshield, but it really does work, is cost effective and is easy to install. Denshield is even easier to install than sheetrock, and Wedi is by far the simplest shower system (and also on the top-tier as far as waterproofing goes) to install. Wedi is also the most expensive, at $30 for a 5'x3'x1/2" sheet, that can add up. I use Wedi for the first foot above the shower, which is the limit to how far Wedi wants you to install the lowest screw, and then I transition to Denshield, which runs about $12 for a 5'x4'x1/2" sheet for the remainder of the shower. Using the Wedi sealant, I cover all of my seams and screwheads. I use Wedi for my niches, as the foam edge make for easier waterproofing than the powdery gypsum edge of Denshield.

Here are some photos of a few projects using this method.


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## GO Remodeling

I understand the reasons to mix materials but can't see using WEDI caulk as seam sealer. How would it stick along a powdery edge?


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## GO Remodeling

I used that combination recently for a tub wall with niche. I think a quick seal of the denshield edges and cuts with some AD might make a better seam. It would soak into the gyp core, IMO. Then you could apply the wedi sealant over the seam if you wanted.


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## GO Remodeling

FWIW, we would thinset the bottom 1/3 of shower/tub when I worked at a shop. Everything above was mastic. The lower part of the shower is the last to dry out so it made sense. However, I don't do it that way for myself. Now, I waterproof the whole thing and set with thinset.


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## Ethos

olzo55 said:


> I understand the reasons to mix materials but can't see using WEDI caulk as seam sealer. How would it stick along a powdery edge?


Good question!

That's why I use Wedi where outside edges will be exposed, like on niches. Before, it was a pain, because I'd have to clean the powder with a damp sponge and let it dry, then I'd have to work my Wedi glue all the way around and inspect for pinholes, basically treating it like a membrane system like hydroban or aquadefense. Often, that was a two-step process because there would be some small areas that weren't sufficiently sealted. Now I just go from the surface of the denshield to the waterproof edge of the Wedi. With a seam of Denshield, simply going from surface to surface is sufficient according to their own spec, and any waterproof sealant is fine, such as silicone.


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## bowtie

markpage said:


> BTW. Maybe my revised question should have been: What would you use on your own home that you plan to live in forever IF time and cost weren't significant factors. HA ha. :laughing:
> 
> .



Many 'systems' would give lasting results, the issue you will have with each is installation, the quality of the installer is the most important aspect no matter which way you go ...


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## GO Remodeling

bowtie said:


> Many 'systems' would give lasting results, the issue you will have with each is installation, the quality of the installer is the most important aspect no matter which way you go ...




Nothing like " installer error" to ruin a good system or heart transplant.


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## CO762

olzo55 said:


> Nothing like " installer error" to ruin a good system or heart transplant.


And a lousy grout job to ruin a great install.


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## alboston

I always wonder how flexible the Wedi sealed joints are. If there is some movement will that joint crack? I assume not. I feel more comfortable with the kerdi corners and joints.


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## Ethos

alboston said:


> I always wonder how flexible the Wedi sealed joints are. If there is some movement will that joint crack? I assume not. I feel more comfortable with the kerdi corners and joints.


Very flexible. It dries to a consistency similar to tire rubber, which allows for movement.


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## CarpenterSFO

...


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## skyhook

Dutchman Tile said:


> from my experience I prefer mud walls over wedi or backerboard walls. I feel it provides a superior product with flatter walls and makes installing tile less complicated.
> 
> Reading from other post in this forum I have found that HOT MOP is mostly a So. Cal. thing. Hot Mop with deck mud is the only method I use for a shower pan.


Flatter walls that are also PLUMB.
If a tile man builds his own pre-slope, has his pan hot mopped, knows how to install proper lathe and float walls, I'd say he can buld a quality shower that will last 50 years.


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## KAP

skyhook said:


> Flatter walls that are also PLUMB.
> If a tile man builds his own pre-slope, has his pan hot mopped, knows how to install proper lathe and float walls, I'd say he can buld a quality shower that will last 50 years.


That certainly is a benefit to a degree... but don't forget that styles change well before 50 years... and I've never heard of a 50-year warranty on a tile job... lol...


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## GO Remodeling

Only so many places require mud jobs. It's a great install. But fewer people will pay for that installation where it is not required. While it may last for 50 years, people move frequently and styles change before the service life of the installation ends.


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## CarpenterSFO

olzo55 said:


> Only so many places require mud jobs. It's a great install. But fewer people will pay for that installation where it is not required. While it may last for 50 years, people move frequently and styles change before the service life of the installation ends.


We've had a series of recent remodels that included bathrooms that were 30-40 years old, and one in the last year from the 50s.


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## GO Remodeling

A mud job is a great install. It could also be that only the properly installed ones lasted that long. Time will tell if the "modern" methods will last as long when properly done, too.


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## CO762

skyhook said:


> Flatter walls that are also PLUMB.


You forgot square.


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## CO762

KAP said:


> I've never heard of a 50-year warranty on a tile job... lol...


 It's all selling points....which are funny as most manufacturers offer a 10 year warranty anyway.


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## KAP

CO762 said:


> It's all selling points....which are funny as most manufacturers offer a 10 year warranty anyway.


Agreed... most tile guys offer 1-5 year warranties on their work... We offer 5-10 years depending on the tile job... We are the warranty in our case, so the manufacturer is a just another layer of protection, but anything you can do to sell it...


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## CO762

Then throw in mixing products from different manufacturers. I can't imagine stuff crapping out 5, 10, 15 years later. I mean seriously, what sort of science would be involved in doling out blame? 

For mfgrs, I've gotten bad product which I could tell right away or in cases of grout, the next day. 7 years later, the grout in one part of one joint cracks, and now forensics? Water damage? My experience in failures isn't the materials, it's the dumbass that did it--whether improperly done and/or using the wrong product for that application. 
How to warrant that? I dunno as there are a lot of DIY/HO/handymen/other tradespeople that do tile. There are even tile monkeys that can't set, can't layout, and don't do much else right either, but they've been doing it for longer than most people/mfgrs warrant their products.

I say carpet everything.


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## Ethos

olzo55 said:


> A mud job is a great install. It could also be that only the properly installed ones lasted that long. Time will tell if the "modern" methods will last as long when properly done, too.


Honestly, the biggest factor in most of these jobs is the foundation of a home. None of these systems will work well with excessive movement, regardless of how much people say they do. I guarantee you that if one side of a shower moves an inch over time due to a bad foundation, there isn't a system in the world that will stand up to that.


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## GO Remodeling

Ethos said:


> Honestly, the biggest factor in most of these jobs is the foundation of a home. None of these systems will work well with excessive movement, regardless of how much people say they do. I guarantee you that if one side of a shower moves an inch over time due to a bad foundation, there isn't a system in the world that will stand up to that.


True, maybe. There are more reasons than a foundation that could cause a failure.

Installer error is probably number one. Also, wrong materials for the conditions. Or point loads, wet framing lumber,improper fastening of framing,and wall materials, poor weatherproofing,improper insulation, plumbing leak, improper shower door installation......

It sometimes takes some detective work to figure out why something failed.


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## jarvis design

I've had the mis pleasure of ripping out a couple hundred mud jobs in the last 25 years. The majority of the walls were solid. I once ripped out a small bathroom with a "3 wall" 3'x3' shower, cast iron tub, and wainscot around the room 48"high. Took 4 swings with a sledge to put a hole in the wall...the size of the sledge!!
Took 2 guys 2 1/2 solid days.
That being said, the grout looked like crap (to be expected), and the shower..., well, it smelled! It had the typical (for this area) installation with a liner sitting flat on the subfloor. Mortar bed was saturated when we broke it up.
I have used CBU with Kerdi or Hydroban gor years and have no worries or concerns with either. I am now starting to use Wedi as I'm pretty impressed with it! My new venture is offering "well built" jobs in the least amount of time possible. Wedi helps accomplish this.


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## charimon

EthanB said:


> Is there any particular reason you are not consulting with your tile sub on this? Why would advice from a bunch of strangers be the thing that proves to you which construction method is better if you haven't heard anything that has influenced you yet?


Umm. Maybe because the strangers have no dog in this particular fight of his. Maybe he has read some discussions in the tile section and discovered that some of us know of what we speak. Just saying.

To the OP

For spec, get the Tcna manual and locate proper subsections and allow your subs to bid using either method as long as they build to standard.
just make sure the your sub is fully competent in the method chosen.


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## Hank B.

This is an interesting topic for me even though it's been done to death other places. These days I'm building full mud showers only. Its not really more time if you consider the big picture. Perfectly flat, plumb, squared up walls make the tile installation go much faster. When you can make every cut before you mix up thinset, spread an set. No tinkering, no scribing cuts, no wedges to make the horizontal lines from one wall to the next line up because if they are not plumb those joints can't truly line up without some sort of manipulation. 

This thread is about waterproofing though. With a full mud assembly, redgaurd, mega flex and fusion pro grout, I got a lifetime system warrantee from cbp. This pic is after the first coat of redgaurd. I spend far less time mudding walls than I would shimming planeing and furring to get even close. Plus I can take the extra 700$ I would have paid for Styrofoam and stick it in my pocket. If budget were an issue I could have gone pan liner/ poly and started setting the same day I floated the walls/ pan


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## Inner10

Hank B. said:


> This is an interesting topic for me even though it's been done to death other places. These days I'm building full mud showers only. Its not really more time if you consider the big picture. Perfectly flat, plumb, squared up walls make the tile installation go much faster. When you can make every cut before you mix up thinset, spread an set. No tinkering, no scribing cuts, no wedges to make the horizontal lines from one wall to the next line up because if they are not plumb those joints can't truly line up without some sort of manipulation.
> 
> This thread is about waterproofing though. With a full mud assembly, redgaurd, mega flex and fusion pro grout, I got a lifetime system warrantee from cbp. This pic is after the first coat of redgaurd. I spend far less time mudding walls than I would shimming planeing and furring to get even close. Plus I can take the extra 700$ I would have paid for Styrofoam and stick it in my pocket. If budget were an issue I could have gone pan liner/ poly and started setting the same day I floated the walls/ pan


Awesome, worst part is having to wait for the redguard to dry.


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## world llc

I have been using more and more Kerdi board. I would like to try the Wedi board, there is a supply house very close to me, but not sure i want to spend extra time on my jobs to learn a new product...


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## The Coastal Craftsman

Sod that. I will stick with WEDI board lol. I can be tiling within 2 hours with it. You should give it a go. Sure will save you back some work as well and you will be in and out much faster.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

world llc said:


> I have been using more and more Kerdi board. I would like to try the Wedi board, there is a supply house very close to me, but not sure i want to spend extra time on my jobs to learn a new product...


There's really nothing needed to be learned. Put thunder on floor, level base. Whilst that's setting up start measuring and cutting you panels to size. Put sealant on joints. Screws boards in place. Cover screw holes and start measuring you cuts. Make your cuts and by the time you laying tile it's already to start laying tile.


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## Inner10

BCConstruction said:


> There's really nothing needed to be learned. Put thunder on floor, level base. Whilst that's setting up start measuring and cutting you panels to size. Put sealant on joints. Screws boards in place. Cover screw holes and start measuring you cuts. Make your cuts and by the time you laying tile it's already to start laying tile.


Is there any real difference between them besides colour? Aren't they both waterproof foam boards?


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## The Coastal Craftsman

Inner10 said:


> Is there any real difference between them besides colour? Aren't they both waterproof foam boards?


There are a few differences. Time to install, materials they are made from, products used to seal the joints, price, ease of install. WEDI wins in all of them. Not many people in this area use either though. Tile over drywall with mastic is the most common method. 

Here's one I was doing yesterday.


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## world llc

the face and installation instructions are very different, and Wedi is ok as an underlayment where KB is not... 

I had to run out to Wayne Tile to get 20 sheets of 1/8" wedi for a thermal break on a heated floor (over slab) after learning Kerdi Board cannot be used on floor...

Also, Kerdi Board on ceiling has to be 3/4", so we just hardi and kerdi


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## GO Remodeling

I hear WEDI is much stiffer because of the cement outer surface.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

olzo55 said:


> I hear WEDI is much stiffer because of the cement outer surface.


It is a little stiffer.


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## skillman

Wedi is really a great product for shower area waterproofing protection . The cost my be little more but the time to start tile work Starts almost right away . I do think if they lower price per sheet a lot more people would use it . And carry 36" curbs to would help . So don't have to buy 48" .


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## GO Remodeling

I do think if they lower price per sheet a lot more people would use it . And carry 36" curbs to would help . So don't have to buy 48" . 


I agree! They could take over the market if they dropped the price 15-20%. :thumbsup:


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## CarpenterSFO

BCConstruction said:


> Not many people in this area use either though. Tile over drywall with mastic is the most common method.
> View attachment 91785


It never ceases to amaze me. Looked at a bathroom yesterday. Travertine over drywall with mastic, in a shower. Caulked with acrylic caulk. Mould everywhere. Owner's had it recaulked a couple times, is pretty sure that it just needs a better caulk job. I'm going to give it to one of my guys as a side job, letting the customer know there's no warranty at all, and they should expect to call me for a new shower in the next year.


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## Hank B.

Biggest problem isn't waiting for the redaurd to dry its waiting for the mud to dry. But wedi products aren't available in my corner if the world, and to do that same shower with schluter products would have cost me 600$ more. So what does the extra time for drying matter when your getting paid 300$ per day for it. On that job I got paid to sell another. 

I'm not saying my method is best, but as far as picking a one system to tile them all I feel mud to be the most versatile. I'm contemplating using a sheet product instead of liquid from now on to eliminate the waiting period. bonus of mud is one could notch it out to eliminate build up. I let y'all know how that goes next time I sell a shower.


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## srwcontracting

Hank B. said:


> This is an interesting topic for me even though it's been done to death other places. These days I'm building full mud showers only. Its not really more time if you consider the big picture. Perfectly flat, plumb, squared up walls make the tile installation go much faster. When you can make every cut before you mix up thinset, spread an set. No tinkering, no scribing cuts, no wedges to make the horizontal lines from one wall to the next line up because if they are not plumb those joints can't truly line up without some sort of manipulation.
> 
> This thread is about waterproofing though. With a full mud assembly, redgaurd, mega flex and fusion pro grout, I got a lifetime system warrantee from cbp. This pic is after the first coat of redgaurd. I spend far less time mudding walls than I would shimming planeing and furring to get even close. Plus I can take the extra 700$ I would have paid for Styrofoam and stick it in my pocket. If budget were an issue I could have gone pan liner/ poly and started setting the same day I floated the walls/ pan


That is impressive hank, but I can carry 3 sheets of wedi in one trip and have pan and walls done in a couple hours and then tile base before the end of the day

I can't see you getting that done and ready to tile in less than 2 days and at least 8 hours of work

I'll make up that $700 in another little job during the week


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## srwcontracting

BCConstruction said:


> It is a little stiffer.


I've used the Kerdi board for 2 different showers. And I think it sucks compared to wedi. It costs me $110 a 4x8 sheet compared to $88 for KB
It is rediculus foam can cost so much!


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## Inner10

srwcontracting said:


> That is impressive hank, but I can carry 3 sheets of wedi in one trip and have pan and walls done in a couple hours and then tile base before the end of the day
> 
> I can't see you getting that done and ready to tile in less than 2 days and at least 8 hours of work
> 
> I'll make up that $700 in another little job during the week


Mud when business is slow...wedi when busy.


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## Hank B.

I hear you srw, but what if you have to shim/ plane studs, square up walls, wet wall an absolute framing travesty? would you still get that board up in 2 hrs? I floated them walls in 3. pan took 40 min. course I had to put up lath, and scratch coat the day before. but most of that day was spent moving the drain (bath tub conversion). while I was waiting for the mud to dry to receive redgaurd I did a 400ft tile job over greenskin and sold another. didn't really lose any time.


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## world llc

srwcontracting said:


> I've used the Kerdi board for 2 different showers. And I think it sucks compared to wedi. It costs me $110 a 4x8 sheet compared to $88 for KB
> It is rediculus foam can cost so much!


interesting... 

im surprised that they would differ enough to prefer one over the other

also, i figured Wedi would be cheaper than KB


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## The Coastal Craftsman

world llc said:


> interesting...
> 
> im surprised that they would differ enough to prefer one over the other
> 
> also, i figured Wedi would be cheaper than KB


Wedi is cheaper than kerdi for me here. I ain't looked at prices lately buti think some of my wedi stuff went down in price. I will find out tomorrow. Going to pick up some more boards for a job.


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## gowings

Not to did up an old thread but *WOW*. I was reading up on shower membranes and Wedi etc. I priced it out at over 165.00 for a 4x8-1/2" sheet.


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## skillman

gowings said:


> Not to did up an old thread but *WOW*. I was reading up on shower membranes and Wedi etc. I priced it out at over 165.00 for a 4x8-1/2" sheet.


 Wedi is a great product. The savings is in the labor . You can tile same day .


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## TNTRenovate

gowings said:


> Not to did up an old thread but *WOW*. I was reading up on shower membranes and Wedi etc. I priced it out at over 165.00 for a 4x8-1/2" sheet.


That's retail. I pray $93 for a 1/2" sheet of Kerdi Board from my tile supplier.


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## dsconstructs

I don't know the price of 4x8 in Wedi, but the 3x5 is $35. I'll find out about the larger sheet later this week as I have a 4x4 shower coming up in a couple weeks.


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## charimon

The cheapest way to get Materials is to buck up your $600 ($500 if you know who to go through) and join the NTCA. in addition to the great training and resources there is the $1800 worth of Manufacturer Vouchers they send you. Getting a 230% roi is like Gold.
https://tile-assn.site-ym.com/

It is even better when you win the Schluter door prize at the local event.
32x60 Kerdi kit with drain.

I do a lot of Hybrid showers. Durock walls, mudbed, kerdi drain, cinder block or kerdi curb. Hydraflex waterproof walls, Kerdi shower floor. I find this to be the most flexible choice for me. Greg and Corey from Schluter have been making a strong case for consistently running with one system.


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## TNTRenovate

charimon said:


> The cheapest way to get Materials is to buck up your $600 ($500 if you know who to go through) and join the NTCA. in addition to the great training and resources there is the $1800 worth of Manufacturer Vouchers they send you. Getting a 230% roi is like Gold.
> https://tile-assn.site-ym.com/
> 
> It is even better when you win the Schluter door prize at the local event.
> 32x60 Kerdi kit with drain.
> 
> I do a lot of Hybrid showers. Durock walls, mudbed, kerdi drain, cinder block or kerdi curb. Hydraflex waterproof walls, Kerdi shower floor. I find this to be the most flexible choice for me. Greg and Corey from Schluter have been making a strong case for consistently running with one system.


I just joined NARI, NTCA will be next.


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## Tom M

Anyone mix products like Wedi board for walls and PVC Oatey liner for basin?

Wondering if you can rabbit out the foam for the liner.


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## dsconstructs

Yes you can rabbet the Wedi panels. We were shown to do that for using over a molded shower pan or tub, to fit down over the tiling flanges.


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## jengebretson

dsconstructs said:


> Doing another Wedi this month. And going to another Wedi workshop later this month. I was told they have some new things out, one of which is a base for zero threshold. Apparently it's lower on the edges than the Fundo pan and is made to go on top of joists, though you need to fill in between the joists blocking and plywood flush to top of joists. Too bad I didn't find that out a couple weeks ago, I installed two of the ARC Tuff Forms for a customer. The drain changes would have been simpler.
> 
> I still don't have pricing for 4x8 sheets since Daltile doesn't stock them, they don't want to have to stock the larger size. Too bad on this next one since it's a 4'x4' shower and will be using 3'x5' panels.


Wedi 4'x8'x1/2" sheets from my local supplier is around $93 a sheet and 3'x5'x1/2" is $42 a sheet. Kerdi 4'x8'x1/2" is $73 a sheet. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## jengebretson

TNTSERVICES said:


> I am kinda rethinking Kerdi Board. Compared to Wedi it's a joke with all the Kerdi band and having to deal with the corners. Wedi looks like a winner. The pans easily integrate. You can integrate ARC pans with ease.
> 
> Anyone's thought on Denshield? I've used it a few times and liked it. I was considering sealing the ends like Wedi does and just going that route. Consistent product and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.


I also like that the core of the Wedi is waterproof, as long as you don't puncture all the way through the foam, you are still waterproof. All the kerdi band, kerdi inside corners, and kerdi outside corners are a pain. This project would have been time consuming with Schulter














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## goneelkn

How long before you can tile with Wedi sealant?? Just did a surround with Go Board and Sika 1A and it took three days to cure.


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## Tom M

Wedi is advertised as same day.


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## jengebretson

goneelkn said:


> How long before you can tile with Wedi sealant?? Just did a surround with Go Board and Sika 1A and it took three days to cure.


You can water test after 2hr of cure time as per installation instructions. Typically you can tile around the 30-45min after installation. Skin time is very quick with the Wedi sealant. I usually install the boards, do my tile layout, and by the time I am done with layout I can start setting.

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## goneelkn

Thanks that sounds better than 3 days. Go Board is $22 for a 3 x 5 and is waterproof through the core.


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## overanalyze

goneelkn said:


> Thanks that sounds better than 3 days. Go Board is $22 for a 3 x 5 and is waterproof through the core.


I have used the GoBoard. It works well. The only thing that bothers me is it isn't a part of an entire system. No help from the manufacturer if you would have problems. Still will use it though.


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## goneelkn

overanalyze said:


> I have used the GoBoard. It works well. The only thing that bothers me is it isn't a part of an entire system. No help from the manufacturer if you would have problems. Still will use it though.


Yeah your thread got me to use it. Thanks. I did not like waiting the 3 days for cure time though. I used the Sika 1A. I'll try the Wedi sealant next time for setting at least the next day or else mortar and mesh then liquid. Have you tried anything else??
Can't beat the price, though would be nice if they came out with 4 x 8's.


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## Tom M

How are you treating foam core ends? Like what you would have with a built in seat.

Spackling over the cells with the sealant?


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## TNTRenovate

Wedi is a closed cell foam.


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## jengebretson

Go Board core is Polyisosyanurate. Wedi is Extruded Polystyrene. Extruded Polystyrene is better for wet environments. Polyisosyanurate can absorb and hold quite a bit more water than Extruded Polystyrene. 

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## Mr_Stop

Bumping an old thread...

I'm considering switching over to using a foam board based system like Kerdi or Durock Ultralight. Currently I'm using Durock CBU with mud preslope/slope/curb, pan liner and liquid applied waterproofing. 

On a shower I'm quoting it looks like about an extra $300 or more in material over my current CBU system. If I switch, I plan to still use a mud slope rather than the foam shower pan.

In your experience, are the labor savings enough to offset the increased cost of these systems (How much time do you think you save)? How much does it reduce your install timeline? Any drawbacks, besides cost, vs the CBU method?


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## tjbnwi

Due to the flood test on the pan, I'm not sure you'll be ahead time wise. 

I like Kerdi board, I have no issues with banding the seams and screws. Some people prefer the sealant method Wedi uses.

One trick Travis relayed to me was, wrap some Kerdi band around your hand. Slide it off your hand, cut with scissors. Saves time. 

With Kerdi there is also the modified/un-modified requirement.

Tom


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## Mr_Stop

tjbnwi said:


> Due to the flood test on the pan, I'm not sure you'll be ahead time wise.
> 
> I like Kerdi board, I have no issues with banding the seams and screws. Some people prefer the sealant method Wedi uses.
> 
> One trick Travis relayed to me was, wrap some Kerdi band around your hand. Slide it off your hand, cut with scissors. Saves time.
> 
> With Kerdi there is also the modified/un-modified requirement.
> 
> Tom


I was wandering about the flood test thing. Schluter recommends at least 24 hours of set-time before flood testing so that would be a setback. With my current method, I can install the liner after the preslope is sufficiently cured. However, I have the added steps of having to notch the studs with the liner. Kerdi board should also go up a bit quicker and I can probably get it to waterproof faster. I also don't have the second mud slope to install. But, yeah, probably a wash to short savings in timeline. Maybe a bit more in labor savings?

Seems like Wedi might have a slight advantage in the timeline savings.

Yes, the modified/unmodified thing seams like a pain.


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## CPMKW

Mr_Stop said:


> Bumping an old thread...
> 
> I'm considering switching over to using a foam board based system like Kerdi or Durock Ultralight. Currently I'm using Durock CBU with mud preslope/slope/curb, pan liner and liquid applied waterproofing.
> 
> On a shower I'm quoting it looks like about an extra $300 or more in material over my current CBU system. If I switch, I plan to still use a mud slope rather than the foam shower pan.
> 
> In your experience, are the labor savings enough to offset the increased cost of these systems (How much time do you think you save)? How much does it reduce your install timeline? Any drawbacks, besides cost, vs the CBU method?


In my mind, you are missing out on the biggest time saving but not doing a full system and sticking with the mud pan.

I will mud pan some custom sizes still but it is rare.

If you go kerdi, would you use kerdi membrane/drain on the pan?

I am now a wedi guy for almost every install. A standard 36x60 shower, three walls tiled, can be installed before lunch. That is pan, drain, walls, sealant. I take a lunch break and start laying tile in the afternoon. One guy, no helper.

That is a perfect scenario where the walls are already square and plumb and the pan doesn't need to be cut to a custom size.

Wedi is almost double the cost of a Kerdi kit (using membrane not foam board). But I save the time to install drywall, followed by membrane and kerdi band. I was slow doing kerdi and always found I had too much build up in the corners after laying the band.



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## tjbnwi

If your using Kerdi sheet, don't band the corners. 

Run the starting wall sheet 4" onto the adjoining wall. Set the adjoining wall sheet 2" from the corner this gives you the required 2" overlap. Pre-formed corners at the base. Done. 

Kerdi board, Kerdi base, on a 32x60 shower, ready in about 4 hours. 

I used Schluter All Set on my SIL's shower. It's a modified and worked well for everything including the glass tile. 

I have done one complete Wedi shower, was not thrilled with using the sealant. 

This week I priced a 72x72 Schluter kit-$725.00, priced just the 72x72 Wedi base (they don't make a 72x72 kit), $1325.00.

Tom


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## CPMKW

Yep, I have wrapped around corners with kerdi membrane. Still need to band from the floor sheet to the walls. And then the inside preformed corners. 

I know it is possible to do it fast and easy, it just wasn't possible for me. 

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## tjbnwi

CPMKW said:


> Yep, I have wrapped around corners with kerdi membrane. Still need to band from the floor sheet to the walls. And then the inside preformed corners.
> 
> I know it is possible to do it fast and easy, it just wasn't possible for me.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Floor sheet I cut 4" large, nip the corners, j roller to "seam" the 2" per side fold, install.

Tom


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## CPMKW

I get it and I have done it. But when laying a smaller tile on that series of overlaps (floor/wall/preformed corner) I found to be a pain. It is strange, but I found the mm add up.

No issue with a larger format tile.

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## Mr_Stop

If going this route, I'm pretty set on using the Kerdi-Board (or equivalent) rather than a sheet membrane. I would use the Kerdi-Membrane on the pan.

For the Kerdi pre-made shower tray, does the shower have to be perfectly square with the drain centered? Mine is pretty close to square (~57 1/2"), but the drain is slightly off center due to floor joist interference.

Corner build-up is a concern for me as well. I get that with CBU's /liners and it can make installs a bit more finicky. I like the idea of Wedi in that regard.

So, it sounds like you have moved to one of these systems. Are your clients paying more for this? Or, have you found that you're making up the increased cost in labor savings?


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## CPMKW

Customizing the floor pan is easier with kerdi.

Center your pan on the drain and cut the sides to fit your space. If you need to extend your pan, just do it like a mud bed.

With Wedi you are pretty much stuck buying extensions and wasting a lot of expensive materials if you have a lot cutting down to do.

My price would be a pretty similar from a traditional shower (preslope, liner, mud pan, CBU with plastic VB) to a Wedi shower. I never once sold one though... I have only been at this for about 8 years and started with kerdi, switched to Wedi about 4 years ago. 

I have sold some hybrid setups, mostly for custom sizes. A combo of mud pan, kerdi drain and membrane. Aqua D on CBU walls... Cost (to customer) was usually within $200 of wedi. Sometimes higher and sometimes lower.

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## Mr_Stop

CPMKW said:


> Customizing the floor pan is easier with kerdi.
> 
> Center your pan on the drain and cut the sides to fit your space. If you need to extend your pan, just do it like a mud bed.
> 
> With Wedi you are pretty much stuck buying extensions and wasting a lot of expensive materials if you have a lot cutting down to do.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


So for extension, just mix up some mud and pack it into the void?

How do you adjust for the difference in height? Do you float a thin layer of thinset prior to applying the membrane?



CPMKW said:


> My price would be a pretty similar from a traditional shower (preslope, liner, mud pan, CBU with plastic VB) to a Wedi shower. I never once sold one though... I have only been at this for about 8 years and started with kerdi, switched to Wedi about 4 years ago.
> 
> I have sold some hybrid setups, mostly for custom sizes. A combo of mud pan, kerdi drain and membrane. Aqua D on CBU walls... Cost (to customer) was usually within $200 of wedi. Sometimes higher and sometimes lower.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Interesting.


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## tjbnwi

Mr_Stop said:


> So for extension, just mix up some mud and pack it into the void?
> 
> How do you adjust for the difference in height? Do you float a thin layer of thinset prior to applying the membrane?
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.


There should not be a difference in height. Use the pan to guide the screed. 

Cover the entire pan with Kerdi. 

Tom


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## tjbnwi

For some reason I couldn’t attach a photo to the previous post. 

Tom


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