# whole house painting - foundation color



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I need a common sense ruling on this. This is for a remodeled cape cod with addition. 

In the absence of discussing or specifying the color of the foundation for a house paint job, is it common practice to just assume it will be the same as the rest of the house? I just came home to our house, painted kind of a blue bordering on periwinkle (Ben Moore Arctic Ice), and the entire foundation was sprayed, too, which is fairly exposed as you walk to the rear of the house. Even my basement steps to the workshop are now Arctic Ice. 

How damned hard is it to make a call or text to confirm stuff like this?  I would have thought the basement stairway would have been left raw concrete, unpainted.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

sounds like an earl scheib special....:whistling:laughing:




some guys paint foundations some don't.

usually discussed prior to application.

paint the stairs....no way....


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

griz said:


> sounds like an earl scheib special....:whistling:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant the walls of the stairwell. Still seems dumb as rocks. These poured walls have the textured finish of the forms, so I'm triply p-ssed off.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Last thing I would do is assume that someone knows what I want nor do I assume what my clients want.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

so you evidently did not talk specifics before starting....

contract happen to speak to this?...:whistling


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

What does the contract say?...


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

griz said:


> so you evidently did not talk specifics before starting....
> 
> contract happen to speak to this?...:whistling


No, the contract didn't address the foundation being painted at all. We picked a house and trim color.

And of course nobody on the crew said " that doesn't look like it would be a good idea."


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

KAP said:


> What does the contract say?...


...pick a frickin color and it will be painted...something like that, probably.

Btw, this is small potatoes to the past 10 months and some of the stuff on this job. Some day I may write about it..if I can do so without reliving it.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> ...pick a frickin color and it will be painted...something like that, probably.
> 
> Btw, this is small potatoes to the past 10 months and some of the stuff on this job. Some day I may write about it..if I can do so without reliving it.


job from hell???....:laughing:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

griz said:


> job from hell???....:laughing:


You could say that. I'm trying to drag this crippled horse over the finish line.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> ...pick a frickin color and it will be painted...something like that, probably.
> 
> Btw, this is small potatoes to the past 10 months and some of the stuff on this job. Some day I may write about it..if I can do so without reliving it.


This is weird a contractor that pays other contractors to hack his own home?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

avenge said:


> This is weird a contractor that pays other contractors to hack his own home?


Ha. Don't get me started.


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

Even if you were planning to paint the foundation, don't paint it the same color as the siding.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

Foundation usually is a couple of shades darker than the siding. The idea is for it to hide dirt that splashes up when it rains.


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## Idothat (May 19, 2018)

Was the foundation painted before?
If not, then it wouldn't be painted just as a matter of course 

My guess is your painter didn't properly mask or shield the foundation when spraying the siding , then in a CYA move he painted the foundation


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Color? Jeez, they needed a masonry paint, not a siding paint. All that may have to come off, dependin on how it was primed.

If it wasn't called out, it shouldn't have been painted.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Color? Jeez, they needed a masonry paint, not a siding paint. All that may have to come off, dependin on how it was primed.
> 
> If it wasn't called out, it shouldn't have been painted.


Primed? I don't even think they cleaned it,and we had several texts with the owner and GC about that. Several months of clay spatter, and miraculously it was painted when I got home.

We texted the owner last night, and today the crew wasn't pleasant like the two previous days.

The original foundation was gray, btw, and that's about 1-2 feet height. 
With the addition, much more exposed.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Don't worry it can be primed after all the paint flakes off.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

MarkJames said:


> We texted the owner last night, and today the crew wasn't pleasant like the two previous days.
> 
> .



Not your house?


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## TheConstruct (Dec 8, 2017)

Big Johnson said:


> Not your house?


I think he meant the owner of the painting company


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Neat the shipyard, battleship gray was pretty common.:whistling


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> You could say that. I'm trying to drag this crippled horse over the finish line.


Should of just did it yourself. I built a 3400 sq ft under roof house for my family in 11 months, nights and weekends. 

My wife did threaten to call my best friend and hire him if I didn't get started though :whistling:laughing:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Should of just did it yourself. I built a 3400 sq ft under roof house for my family in 11 months, nights and weekends.
> 
> My wife did threaten to call my best friend and hire him if I didn't get started though :whistling:laughing:


In retrospect, agreed.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I only say that imagining me dealing with a dude building my house with my standards. Lol. Worse would be a remodel


MarkJames said:


> In retrospect, agreed.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Worse would be a remodel
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


That sums it up exactly.

Standards, timing, scheduling, lack of communication...the whole thing has been a cluster---. Heck, I'll even add knowing how to tarp an open house. Ridiculous.


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## artinall (Aug 14, 2007)

Outside belly strap about the foundation - is that a separate trim color between foundation and upper siding?

I'm picturing a bright old, cheap...blue-lapel suit.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Different textures can make the same color look different. IE: foundation concrete wall meeting up to smooth siding (painted the same color). There's not much of a contrast in color, but enough to make it not look cheap.

They painted the concrete steps too, as if it was a foundation wall, with the same paint? Shame on you, and them, for not specifying. Was the price right?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Caslon said:


> Different textures can make the same color look different. IE: foundation concrete wall meeting up to smooth siding (painted the same color). There's not much of a contrast in color, but enough to make it not look cheap.
> 
> They painted the concrete steps too, as if it was a foundation wall, with the same paint? Shame on you, and them, for not specifying. Was the price right?


How the hell is it the client's fault dude? It is his Builders fault alone


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## Harber (Jul 22, 2018)

Jaws said:


> How the hell is it the client's fault dude? It is his Builders fault alone


Mostly agreed, except we're talking about a client who's a contractor, so you'd think he'd know to specify f'ing EVERYTHING.

Regarding the actual job, I agree that it should have been discussed before. I've had jobs where we made a diagram, because they had siding, foundation, stucco all over the place, mixed up. When you paint a Victorian house 3 different colors, we do a colored mock up and have the client sign it. Always specify everything.

Regarding fixing it, if they used the same paint and didn't prime, you could probably blast it off...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Harber said:


> Mostly agreed, except we're talking about a client who's a contractor, so you'd think he'd know to specify f'ing EVERYTHING.
> 
> Regarding the actual job, I agree that it should have been discussed before. I've had jobs where we made a diagram, because they had siding, foundation, stucco all over the place, mixed up. When you paint a Victorian house 3 different colors, we do a colored mock up and have the client sign it. Always specify everything.
> 
> Regarding fixing it, if they used the same paint and didn't prime, you could probably blast it off...


As a Builder I can't see myself ever hiring a builder, but if I did I damn sure wouldn't be doing his job for him or I would fire his ass.

He can specify it and if it's wrong he can f****** fix it. LOL

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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Jaws said:


> How the hell is it the client's fault dude? It is his Builders fault alone


Should have used Angies list.


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## Harber (Jul 22, 2018)

Jaws said:


> As a Builder I can't see myself ever hiring a builder, but if I did I damn sure wouldn't be doing his job for him or I would fire his ass.
> 
> He can specify it and if it's wrong he can f****** fix it. LOL
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Agreed, responsibility is a part of the gig, but OP didn't specify and some people do want their foundation so the guy made a call. You can't really say he's wrong if nothing was specified. So the guy might suck, but he didn't technically do the job wrong.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Harber said:


> Agreed, responsibility is a part of the gig, but OP didn't specify and some people do want their foundation so the guy made a call. You can't really say he's wrong if nothing was specified. So the guy might suck, but he didn't technically do the job wrong.


If nothing is specified, it doesn't get done, period. If you paint it, you're responsible for unpainting it. If painting it ruins it, you bought it.

That's real world, subs paid out thousands in damages on a job I was on.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Caslon said:


> Should have used Angies list.


You might want to stick to plumbing. :jester:


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## artinall (Aug 14, 2007)

hdavis said:


> If nothing is specified, it doesn't get done, period. If you paint it, you're responsible for unpainting it. If painting it ruins it, you bought it.
> 
> That's real world, subs paid out thousands in damages on a job I was on.


 Absolutely. Not to mention the fact that foundations typically don't get painted. The painting may have eliminated the future possibility of masonry texture.

Big question now is: have painters been paid?

Might want to think twice about having that same "crew" attempt to fix. My guess is they'd want to walk anyway.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> You might want to stick to plumbing. :jester:


Jack of all trades chiming in on the painters forum. At least when i stray from my trade, I ask humbly on a something that isn't my trade. Jack of all jack says, I do it all! Those that do painting as their main trade appreciate your handymans input too. What is it you do, again?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Caslon said:


> Jack of all trades chiming in on the painters forum. At least when i stray from my trade, I ask humbly on a something that isn't my trade. Jack of all jack says, I do it all! Those that do painting as their main trade appreciate your handymans input too. What is it you do, again?


:laughing: Just a little of this, a little of that. 

I'm one of the most humble guys I know. Very humble. Probably top 10% in humility. :thumbsup:


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Forget my last...I had some drinks. Weekend and all. What were we talking about? Oh ya. Foundation being sprayed the same color as the siding 3' above it and if it should have been painted different. I addressed that earlier.

The steps being sprayed along with the foundation wall, hehe.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Caslon said:


> Jack of all trades chiming in on the painters forum. At least when i stray from my trade, I ask humbly on a something that isn't my trade. Jack of all jack says, I do it all! Those that do painting as their main trade appreciate your handymans input too. What is it you do, again?


You don't have to be listed as a painter to be able to paint, especially these days because most painters suck.

I do remodeling but was strictly a painter for over 20 years I can paint circles around most painters with 10 times the quality. The painting industry has become a sad joke.

I still have to do my own painting so that the end result of all my hard work doesn't look like finished crap.


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## Idothat (May 19, 2018)

avenge said:


> You don't have to be listed as a painter to be able to paint, especially these days because most painters suck.
> 
> I do remodeling but was strictly a painter for over 20 years I can paint circles around most painters with 10 times the quality. The painting industry has become a sad joke.
> 
> I still have to do my own painting so that the end result of all my hard work doesn't look like finished crap.


My story is much the same

Painted for many years , now do remodels etc

It always amazed me that painters that I hired , that supposedly had 5,10 or more years of painting experience , didn’t know jack about the trade

Sadly the same is true for most of the trades

When I signed up on this forum , I debated with myself about even admitting to being a painter

In the end , I decided , that it was nothing to be ashamed of

In fact I’m proud to be amongst the best of that trade


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Caslon said:


> Exactly. I'm a plumber or carpenter or whatever and I have a job to paint someplace. Tell me how.
> 
> Easy fix. Hire a ****ing painting contractor.


....and deal with their quirks. Just like what started this thread...the company is a painting contractor.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

I'd be pissed.




MarkJames said:


> I need a common sense ruling on this. This is for a remodeled cape cod with addition.
> 
> In the absence of discussing or specifying the color of the foundation for a house paint job, is it common practice to just assume it will be the same as the rest of the house? I just came home to our house, painted kind of a blue bordering on periwinkle (Ben Moore Arctic Ice), and the entire foundation was sprayed, too, which is fairly exposed as you walk to the rear of the house. Even my basement steps to the workshop are now Arctic Ice.
> 
> How damned hard is it to make a call or text to confirm stuff like this?  I would have thought the basement stairway would have been left raw concrete, unpainted.





MarkJames said:


> I meant the walls of the stairwell. Still seems dumb as rocks. These poured walls have the textured finish of the forms, so I'm triply p-ssed off.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> ....and deal with their quirks. Just like what started this thread...the company is a painting contractor.


Alright. True. Next!

Every quarterly CA. contractor newsletter. There's a list 2 pages long listing contractors who've had their license revoked for this reason or that. Some painting contractors on that list.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Idothat said:


> Was the foundation painted before?
> If not, then it wouldn't be painted just as a matter of course
> 
> My guess is your painter didn't properly mask or shield the foundation when spraying the siding , then in a CYA move he painted the foundation


bingo


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

MarkJames said:


> I'm glad you seem to really take pride in your workmanship.
> 
> The problem with almost all professional painters is they seem to have or develop shortcomings (and little cheats) that drive the rest of us nuts. Every painter has them, and it's our game to roll the dice and figure them out for each painter. The git-er-done mentality seems to drive a lot of it. It's not unlike other trades in that regard, but when it's the decorating, or "icing on the cake" for a finished product, it's especially aggravating. The list of b.s. is very long. Is it the prep? Is it the primer (or lack of)? Is it how they protect and care for the rest of the house? Where did they overspray...maybe on your new stairs?
> 
> ...


Markjames, no offense, but after reading this post, if you were having issues with this remodel pretty much all along, and being a contractor yourself, and apparently with a viewpoint of painters above that makes you weary of "all professional painters" and their practices, why didn't you hammer down the details of the contract to avoid this in the first place? Not saying they're not responsible, but you're also not a typical HO...

As is stated on all the different parts of the forum, communication between the contractor and customer is the key to a successful relationship...

Sucks you're dealing with this though and hope it works out to your liking... :thumbsup:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

KAP said:


> Markjames, no offense, but after reading this post, if you were having issues with this remodel pretty much all along, and being a contractor yourself, and apparently with a viewpoint of painters above that makes you weary of "all professional painters" and their practices, why didn't you hammer down the details of the contract to avoid this in the first place? Not saying they're not responsible, but you're also not a typical HO...
> 
> As is stated on all the different parts of the forum, communication between the contractor and customer is the key to a successful relationship...
> 
> Sucks you're dealing with this though and hope it works out to your liking... :thumbsup:


The long and short of it is: our own due diligence led us astray, combined with busy schedules and chomping at the bit to get the project scheduled. We had a couple other contractors flake out, since we were being specific about certain things like roof line, etc. With these guys, "no problem, we've done plenty like that", and we did look at a similar project to ours that they were doing. Also, they scaled up this year, but without adding enough labor. That's been my observation, and was confirmed by a couple of their guys.

I would never do it again, but it seemed like a good idea at the beginning.


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## sparehair (Nov 21, 2008)

Idothat said:


> I understand your frustration but, the fellow you describe here is no painter


Then most painters aren't painters.

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## Idothat (May 19, 2018)

sparehair said:


> Then most painters aren't painters.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


It must bad out there now days ,lucky for me painting is limited to a small part of my work now.


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## artinall (Aug 14, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> The long and short of it is: our own due diligence led us astray, combined with busy schedules and chomping at the bit to get the project scheduled. We had a couple other contractors flake out, since we were being specific about certain things like roof line, etc. With these guys, "no problem, we've done plenty like that", and we did look at a similar project to ours that they were doing. Also, they scaled up this year, but without adding enough labor. That's been my observation, and was confirmed by a couple of their guys.
> 
> I would never do it again, but it seemed like a good idea at the beginning.


 Yes but there is also a common sense factor. And not to defend you, MarkJames. But you simply don't paint an unpainted foundation and the walls of a stairwell? Non-masonry paint?

In a contract, it is not practical or advisable to spell out every potential exclusion. If you happen to point out one, and omit the next in-line, it can obligate and get you in trouble...

I only specify exclusions for what might be considered, "included" by some customers, according to widely accepted or debatable common sense standards.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

A lot of painting contractors get screwed by submitting a bid, getting it accepted by the GC, then the GC goes on to completely screw up the times you're to come in and do your part. A GC is supposed to have a neat and tidy schedule when subs are to come in and do their work. They adhere to that schedule with regards to vital trades such as plumbing and electrical and framing, but then flake out on their scheduling of painting work. I've found re-paints to be more profitable and less a hassle and less a risk than dealing with GC's.

Another funny is a GC's finish carpenters doing less than professional work and thinking..."The painters will fix it." :laughing:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> ...
> I would never do it again, but it seemed like a good idea at the beginning.


So have you decided on what to do about it? The painted foundation I mean ?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> So have you decided on what to do about it? The painted foundation I mean ?


Yup, we had it repainted a light gray on their dime....

...so the professional decided to overspray onto my basement steps by about an inch on every step. I wasn't really up for a battle (I'll power wash them later), but I played the worried homeowner on him instead, until he said he's clean it up. Made him look like a butthead in front of his helpers, and he had to get down and scrub it. "Isn't that supposed to be masked first?! Are you sure it will clean up? Oh my....what happened there? Oh my goodness....(pause for more effect)....oh my...."


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> Yup, we had it repainted a light gray on their dime....
> 
> ...so the professional decided to overspray onto my basement steps by about an inch on every step. I wasn't really up for a battle (I'll power wash them later), but I played the worried homeowner on him instead, until he said he's clean it up. Made him look like a butthead in front of his helpers, and he had to get down and scrub it. "Isn't that supposed to be masked first?! Are you sure it will clean up? Oh my....what happened there? Oh my goodness....(pause for more effect)....oh my...."


Good for you.:thumbsup:

Feels good to be a PITA customer, din it ?


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> Yup, we had it repainted a light gray on their dime....


Lighter color than the siding? No big deal if no dirt nearby splashes up on it. Foundation walls are usually colored darker than the above siding. 

Actually, a 3' high rough concrete foundation wall next to the start of the smooth house siding looks fine if they're painted the same. The reason being that different textures make the same color look slightly different. Pleasingly so.


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