# How do you guys find help and or pay for employees



## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

NYgutterguy said:


> How much is your comp bill for the two owners? Rate not $$
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not 100% sure. We have a helper as well. I know we have 3 or 4 different classifications. We track our time and get a better rate for cabinets, trim, and our graphics installation work vs GC/Framing type work.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I did not read posts d all your posts as you write like you are being paid by the word.

You have to figure labor at what the local talent can/will perform not what you can do or think they should do.

Biz partner who cheats....probably not much else to say....

Maybe you need to chase smaller jobs and be a 1 man crew...

and fish in a different pond....

Probably best for you to bag up & go to work for someone else for awhile...


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## ERIC1122 (Jun 12, 2017)

griz....Hate often?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

ERIC1122 said:


> Hate often?


No hate involved.

Just an extremely realistic evaluation of your situation.

The only jobs I lose money on are the ones I do for my wife....:whistling


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## ERIC1122 (Jun 12, 2017)

You know nothing about my situation griz other than I asked for help/advice to learn to grow my business. Today was my first day posting here and found that some dont actually want to help just try to put others down and get less competition in the business. Its ok cause I will be building big stuff pretty soon, as I have already done in 3 years what some only wish. So keep hating Griz..... The world is all twined together (Particle entanglement) and you will only get hate back. I will use this forum for what its for..... I will try to help other licensed contractors and stop replying to haters like you. So to all that will hate on my post now and in future posts......I just wont give a SH&^% and just wont reply to any negativity......because I want to be building towers in my life and dont have time for negativity. So have a great life.....


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

ERIC1122 said:


> You know nothing about my situation griz other than I asked for help/advice to learn to grow my business. Today was my first day posting here and found that some dont actually want to help just try to put others down and get less competition in the business. Its ok cause I will be building big stuff pretty soon as I have already done in 3 years what some only wish. So keep hating Griz..... The world is all twined together (Particle entanglement) and you will only get hate back. I will use this forum for what its for..... I will try to help other licensed contractors and stop replying to haters like you. So to all that will hate on my post now and future posts......I just wont give a SH&^% and just wont reply to any negativity......because I want to be building towers in my life and dont have time for negativity. So have a great life.....


Dude you are the Hater!!! Griz is just being real.. you can't take reality!!! Griz is the most kindest person I could ever know. Getting to cali to meet him and others is on my bucket list.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

try some sandpaper in the shower instead of that lanolin soap...:laughing:


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## ERIC1122 (Jun 12, 2017)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Dude you are the Hater!!! Griz is just being real.. you can't take reality!!! Griz is the most kindest person I could ever know. Getting to cali to meet him and others is on my bucket list.


Telling someone to hang it up.....someone that is doing ok (I'm not losing money) on their first post..... that's your idea of constructive criticism? Nice.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

griz said:


> try some sandpaper in the shower instead of that lanolin soap...:laughing:


:blink::blink:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

ERIC1122 said:


> Telling someone to hang it up.....someone that is doing ok (I'm not losing money) on their first post..... that's your idea of constructive criticism? Nice.


Please quote where he said to hang it up:blink: you seem to read into things that aren't there?? Are you a chick:no:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

ERIC1122 said:


> Telling someone to hang it up.....someone that is doing ok (I'm not losing money) on their first post..... that's your idea of constructive criticism? Nice.


According to your initial post you're not doing "okay". You said you'll be building big stuff pretty soon. So what's the problem? Waiting for cheaper help? Go do it and buy your Bentley.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

ERIC1122 said:


> You know nothing about my situation griz other than I asked for help/advice to learn to grow my business. Today was my first day posting here and found that some dont actually want to help just try to put others down and get less competition in the business. Its ok cause I will be building big stuff pretty soon, as I have already done in 3 years what some only wish. So keep hating Griz..... The world is all twined together (Particle entanglement) and you will only get hate back. I will use this forum for what its for..... I will try to help other licensed contractors and stop replying to haters like you. So to all that will hate on my post now and in future posts......I just wont give a SH&^% and just wont reply to any negativity......because I want to be building towers in my life and dont have time for negativity. So have a great life.....


Your original post detailed some glaring issues that are obvious to people who have been around a while and have not only lived through it but have also helped others with the same or similar issues along the way...

Not liking the responses is not the same as hating... people are taking their time to offer you free advice on a forum you said you've frequented for years before joining... members are made up of business owners and employees from all over the world (although primarily in the USA), and although I could be mistaken, I don't see anyone responding from Clearwater, FL or even FL for that matter, but CA, OH, IL, NYC, etc. so no-one is "putting you down" because they want "less competition"... 

The fact of the matter is you are deluding yourself with a classic misunderstanding / misapplication of business...*1.* Over the past 3 years, you've been losing money ever since you got you CRC...

*2.* When it comes to employees, you say you can't afford to pay them an increase because of the 40% tacked on... 

*3.* You say you can't afford subs because you are "having a seriously hard time finding licensed guys at reasonable rates."

*4.* You yourself (and I assume your partner) are making peanuts for all your running around.

*5.* Your wife is unhappy that you're not making money, but losing money, after 3 years. It sometimes takes guys even longer to realize why and accept it as you seem to be having trouble doing. Add to your guys not giving you the production you need due to some lack of incentive, you've already said you're underbidding. 

*6.* You consider your pay the "profit" as opposed to what you pay your company so the reason you get peanuts is you're getting what's left over after EVERYONE ELSE has been paid as opposed to calculating your pay as part of Labor or Overhead in your estimates. This way, the COMPANY absorbs any production shortfall or benefit, not you personally. One of the reasons there is profit.

*7.* You can't afford to incentivize your guys with a decent wage (and lost your lead because he had to pick up work on the side to make ends meet), you can't afford licensed subs because you've determined that ALL their rates are unreasonable, you can't afford to pay yourself more than peanuts... All this despite the fact that you say you're charging a "fair" price while simultaneously having too much work...​*What do you think this all adds up to?* 

There have been MULTIPLE posters alluding to and telling you outright what one of your main issues is (and is a symptom of a bigger one), but if you're not going to listen and only hear what you want to hear when others are taking their time to respond, perhaps you should put your pride aside and just ask your GC friend with the Bentley... 

If you aren't going to change what needs to be changed going forward, your alternative is a continued future of losing money which will just be exacerbated on larger projects... better to learn that on smaller projects or while working for someone else... hence Griz' remarks...

And losses on steroids ain't gonna' make momma' happy... :no:

And if momma' ain't happy?... :whistling


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

Yep, no hating here, just a dose of reality from a bunch of guys who battle in the trenches. Experience is king. IMO, good skilled workers can make a very decent living, punch in, punch out and get paid. OTOH guys running their own biz are humping at things 24/7, have the potential for much bigger returns but also run the risk of going belly-up.

Some guys are better suited to run their own biz. Others are better suited to just be a worker. I've done both. Find your spot in the sun.

And don't forget... it's OK to pound down a 6 pack a beer at night and work the next day but never take a single toke a weed on a worknight. That loco-weed is dangerous stuff ! Alcohol is safe. <wink>


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

kirkdc said:


> Yep, no hating here, just a dose of reality from a bunch of guys who battle in the trenches. Experience is king. IMO, good skilled workers can make a very decent living, punch in, punch out and get paid. OTOH guys running their own biz are humping at things 24/7, have the potential for much bigger returns but also run the risk of going belly-up.
> 
> 
> 
> Some guys are better suited to run their own biz. Others are better suited to just be a worker. I've done both. Find your spot in the sun.




My brother and I were partners originally and he's just not the business owner type and it only lasted a couple of years. He went on his own and never made any money and ended up with me 15 years ago. 

He's One of the hardest workers I've ever seen and has missed work only a few times in all these years that he's been my right hand man. He looks at some jobs, does the ordering, deals with some of guys we sub for, the mechanic and of course makes sure every install goes up flawlessly. 

I pay him very well and he's content. Company truck, credit card, full salary 35-40 hrs a week max. He had some of the right attributes to run his own business except for Lack of heart for starters.

My father had same issues and never really made money. I keep things pretty simple and organized and am little anal about my business. It's always been my baby. Some guys like you said are much better suited to just be a worker. Some days I even wish I were that guy. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

ERIC1122 said:


> You know nothing about my situation griz other than I asked for help/advice to learn to grow my business. Today was my first day posting here and found that some dont actually want to help just try to put others down and get less competition in the business. Its ok cause I will be building big stuff pretty soon, as I have already done in 3 years what some only wish. So keep hating Griz..... The world is all twined together (Particle entanglement) and you will only get hate back. I will use this forum for what its for..... I will try to help other licensed contractors and stop replying to haters like you. So to all that will hate on my post now and in future posts......I just wont give a SH&^% and just wont reply to any negativity......because I want to be building towers in my life and dont have time for negativity. So have a great life.....


You keep asking for advice and then try and work you responses around the good advice you are getting. Then you call out the one guy who probably knows more about what you want to do then anyone here.

That kinda makes you a d!ck.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## dbbii2 (Apr 27, 2017)

I've worked in the Tampa Bay area now for about 20 years. Everything right now is crazy. The only way you get ANY help (forget about competent help) is to go steal them from someone else. How do you steal them? $$$$!!

Yes, if you bid a job a while ago, but it didn't start for whatever reason (think commercial), you are probably in trouble. Your costs are going up.

OP mentioned he and his partner are WC exempt. That's a business decision on him. My insurance guy said do NOT contract with anyone that has an exemption. If they get hurt, I'm going to end up paying for it.

Concerning the comment about the Pinellas County Licensing Board, our local newspaper did a number of stories about them a month or so ago. Let's just say that they are independent, and there is no oversight. Let's see, the Executive Director "retired" and the Board is out of money since they have no way to collect fines.

The whole Florida licensing thing is really screwed up for some trades. Think things like drywall, flooring, painting, carpentry. There's no State licensing for certain trades -- it's all local and some localities don't do much of anything. It's somewhat buyer beware. There's a reason some homeowners go to Home Depot.

I get a kick out of the guys that say Licensed, Bonded, Insured. There's no definition to most of this -- bonds in particular. 

Anyway, right now lousy carpenters are getting at least $20. There's no such thing as a 40 hour week either.


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## JoelSollen (Dec 28, 2016)

Go out and buy the book "Markup & Profit" by Michael C Stone. Read it and re-read it. Then apply it, it will change your world. Our small company has doubled our volume in three years and drastically increased our profit at the same time. 
Lastly, the problem is seldom more than a simple mindset change,ie are you working for a paycheck or are you operating a legitimate business? If you desire the latter, then get out of the paycheck mindset.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

VinylHanger said:


> You keep asking for advice and then try and work you responses around the good advice you are getting. Then you call out the one guy who probably knows more about what you want to do then anyone here.
> 
> That kinda makes you a d!ck.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Way to go VH... you scared him away... :jester: :whistling :laughing:


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

My job here is done.

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## Bull Trout (Dec 6, 2016)

Okay guys, enough of messing with Eric, 

Eric, 

You obviously need to lower your prices. 
Lower prices helps you land larger jobs, it is not as evident on smaller jobs, saving 20% of $50,000 is only $10,000, that will not get the attention of the customers you want. Saving 20% of $500,000 is $100,000, that kind of savings will get the customers attention, how do you think they got enough money to pay for the $500,000 project? not by paying full retail. 

Your customer will be happy from the get go, you saved them $100,000, and who cant complete a $500k job for $400K? Losers, thats who, with that $400k you can afford to hire at least 4 guys at $15/hour and if you promise them a bunch of work, and tell them about the benefits of not having taxes come out of their (and your) check they should gladly work on a 1099, you will save all the insurance money too. Guys who are smart enough to make all that extra money, GET $#it DONE! they know to keep the gravy train rolling they need to produce!! 

Its not win win, it is WIN, WIN, WIN!!! Customer wins! Employee wins! and most importantly YOU WIN!! 

Ignore all the raise your price stuff these guys are throwing out, we all like to mess with the new guys a little, and sometimes we actually start to believe that higher prices are in everybody's best interest.


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