# Installing vct tile over durock



## mikecarsy (Oct 2, 2013)

Is it okay to tile vct over durock, for a busy grocery store?


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## mski (Apr 4, 2013)

I guess it would be all right as long as the durorack is properly installed and fastened down. (assuming it's over a wood floor?)
The bevel channel is meshed in with floor leveler. The butts will cause a hump in the VCT if meshed and leveled.
You use proper VCT glue spread and after installing use a 100 lb roller and roll the whole floor.
If possible let the VCT tiles acclimate for about a week before installing.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I wouldn't risk the imperfections. You really want a surface that is as flat as possible with VCT


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I wouldn't do it. Aside from the imperfections from joints and screws, what happens when a point load occurs near any of the butt ends? It's going to break up.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

mikecarsy said:


> Is it okay to tile vct over durock, for a busy grocery store?


Why the Durock? moisture problem?

TnT & Ethan have some pretty valid concerns.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Mike, Have you ever installed VCT? If not then definitely hells no!


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I would say absolutely hell no, point load as above, pallet jacks, moisture etc.
I've got about thirty pictures of the stuff not holding up on a solid slab let alone a product with voids within its mix.
Here's a Dollar General where they moved aisles( bread was bogo free)
Seriously your open and you let your customers walk on this?








It will crack, the VCT is not strong enough to distribute the weight.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

Always follow the manufacturers installation requirements.


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## mikecarsy (Oct 2, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Mike, Have you ever installed VCT? If not then definitely hells no!


Yeah, always over luan. The store owner and GC are insisting this is the way they want to go.

What if I put luan over the durock and then VCT?


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

What's going on with substrate for their reason to use cement board? What's the layout? I'm picturing a big city old building. If the square footage is small(affordable) most grocery stores are going to vinyl(LVT , solid) plank or squares around the water areas due to breaking up/cracking and a feed for mildew growth.


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## Johnny_5 (Apr 24, 2014)

mikecarsy said:


> Yeah, always over luan. The store owner and GC are insisting this is the way they want to go.
> 
> What if I put luan over the durock and then VCT?


Get paid in full up front, and get a warranty waiver signed by all parties and their lawyers.

I've seen a grain of sand look like a goddam mountain under a VCT tile in no time at all. The irregular surface of the durock will telegraph right through in time and make the floor look like an orange peel, but maybe that's the look they are going for?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

mikecarsy said:


> Yeah, always over luan. The store owner and GC are insisting this is the way they want to go.
> 
> What if I put luan over the durock and then VCT?


Luan is thin and flexible. I don't think it would be enough to get the floor as flat as you really need it.

Unless I didn't have enough money to put food on the table or clothes on my kid, I would walk away. It is clear that the store owner and GC are clueless as to the products they want installed and the best way to install them.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Luan is probably worse, the maintenance on VCT with stripping and mopping will get into the "wood" and delaminate it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> Luan is probably worse, the maintenance on VCT with stripping and mopping will get into the "wood" and delaminate it.


Another good point.

My suggestion to the OP is to decline the project. As I stated before, the owner and GC don't have a clue and the OP is obviously not comfortable with the situation.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

Run, Forrest, run.


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## ccoffer (Jan 30, 2005)

This seems like some sort of trick question.

VCT is a very tender flower. She has neither rigidity nor flexibility of her own. She's pretty much a coat of really thick paint in 45 sq ft box form.

Durock is made for a different product and for a very specific reason. Load bearing has nothing to do with the equation. I'd no sooner put vct over durock than I would put travertine over a "good" rebond pad.


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## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

If the store owner and GC insist on doing this, and you just absolutely need the work, I would switch to 1/2" Hardi instead of durock. 1/2" hardi has a relatively smooth surface compared to durock, as well as being a denser cored material. Might handle the load better. Not sure what you're going to do about material joints though. The hardi needs to be spaced and then taped and filled, which will create humps on all the joints unless you skim the entire floor back level.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

So this is *EXACTLY* in my field of expertise. 

The question is preposterous. 

It's too soft. It's not remotely smooth enough. It's not a good surface even to patch over with an approved cementitious floor patch one needs for resilient flooring. 

So........NOTHING of positive value would be added in ANY context with this suggested underlayment. 

It's so far from appropriate I'll go as far as saying the mere suggestion stinks of CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE. 

We have contractor's licenses in some states and other certifications for construction trades BECAUSE of pathetic, retarded, malicious imbeciles who concocted this scheme. All over the country hundreds of billions of dollars of FAILURE destroy the value of businesses and homes for the sheer lack of basic competence in what is..........essentially simple stuff. 

So let's ask ourselves WHY. I'll tell you why. They priced out the correct methods. Professional, expert contractors submitted bids and instead of accepting these approved methods they want to SCAB in the VCT for the cheapest price that they THINK they can get away with. 

It's everywhere in every aspect of the construction trades. As professionals we need to recognize these clients and RUN. Then come back 6 months to a year later and *LAUGH OUR ASS OFF. 
*

END RANT HERE


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## ccoffer (Jan 30, 2005)

WTF?

Either way, it's going over a dumpster fire of a substrate. No backer board is a suitable substrate for vct. No backer board can sustain any point load at all hardly. Wasn't this a grocery store? Geez, talk about building a fresh six foot manure sub. Yum.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

ccoffer said:


> WTF?
> 
> Either way, it's going over a dumpster fire of a substrate. No backer board is a suitable substrate for vct. No backer board can sustain any point load at all hardly. Wasn't this a grocery store? Geez, talk about building a fresh six foot manure sub. Yum.


They just have no idea.........yet they have opinions.


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## [email protected] (Nov 17, 2014)

Thank you.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Mike, I spent 34 years in that oppressive heat and humidity. But my wife is from Spokane, and she wanted to come home. I love it here.


I agree, the Humidity is insane, and then trying to work thru it / in it, took me till 45 to say BS I'm waiting till fall/winter to work outside the house.


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## [email protected] (Nov 17, 2014)

Three months of nice weather and Hot. It's 32 here, and feels good. If you ever get backed up or in a bind, I know some really good installers in Melbourne that will travel for the right price.


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

Has anyone deduced why they want to put VCT over Durock?


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## [email protected] (Nov 17, 2014)

It doesn't make sense, but I would guess as a moisture barrier. Somebody saw or heard about doing this, and ran with it. I've had the pleasure of installing a lot of VCT over quick Crete and would have loved to have a moisture barrier, but the GC said do it. And I said sure...sign this waiver. I've been trying to remember every even hearing of someone doing this or even considering myself, but I got nuttin.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

JR Shepstone said:


> Has anyone deduced why they want to put VCT over Durock?


There's only a few possible scenarios. 

I'd bet they got a few bids from legit flooring companies for a proper treatment and are trying to cheap out. 

I've seen that scenario a thousand times. 

To FIX bad floors in a supermarket is pretty damn expensive when compared to a cheap VCT budget. Often they get backed into a corner both budget wise and in terms of a schedule. 

They have neither the time nor the money to do it right, in other words so now they will try to find someone to do it.........wrong.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I still haven't, I thought we BS'd a bit for a pass time tile the op came back and answered some questions.


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## ccoffer (Jan 30, 2005)

_"It doesn't make sense, but I would guess as a moisture barrier. "_

How the hell does that follow? Durock is a sieve.

This whole thing is nuts.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

ccoffer said:


> _"It doesn't make sense, but I would guess as a moisture barrier. "_
> 
> How the hell does that follow? Durock is a sieve.
> 
> This whole thing is nuts.


I'm pretty sure that he meant that was their thinking not his. It's obvious from his other posts he knows better.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I called USG and talked to Doug in technical, he said no to Durock but their fiberboard product would be acceptable. He also said portland patch doesn't stick too well but the latex modified thinset works, their website has some specs I didn't write down one was cb399, other was cb347?


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