# Estimate material cost for rough-in



## UpNorth

A story and a half house, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, laundry room, will be built over a 4-foot depth crawlspace. Here is my rough-in estimate for cost of materials. Where am I wrong, and what am I missing. The power is run to the barn already, and will run an additional 60 feet underground to get into the new house.

Wire, including service in from barn: $2,000
Workboxes, related hardware: 250 (total 81 openings)
Panel, breakers: 250
Can lights (no trim): 150
Bath vent fans, duct: 300
Smoke, CO detectors 150
Misc. 150

Total: $3,250


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## Sparxx

Does that estimate include labour? I find using estimating software and then adjusting the cost to reflect the particular job a good starting point. 
If you don't have it I believe it's the National Electrical Estimator 2011 (US version). I'm fairly certain there's a free trial.


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## greg24k

Let's see...Hmmm


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## ohiohomedoctor

You are not even close, arc fault breakers will exceed your budget for panel and breakers alone. Staples, wire nuts, and oh yeah, about $6000 in labor.

http://www.ohiohomedoctorremodeling.com


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## 480sparky

AFCIs? GFCIs? Only three smokes? TR receps? $3 per opening for boxes & devices means no dimmers, 3- and 4-ways. Permits & inspections? Insurance?

I gotta tell ya.... this looks exactly like a HO's math.


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## UpNorth

Who says I need AFCI breakers?

This estimate is for the rough-in only. No switches, no receps, no devices of any kind are included.

I might be a little low on my panel and breakers number, but not much. See attached for an idea. Panel including some of them, $165. Twenty more 120s @ $4 and two more 230s @ $13. I'll raise my $250 to $300.

And (oh, yeah!) labor is free, 'cause it's by me. See, I'm a poet, and I didn't know it.

No contractors are licensed here, nor are they required to do so. A friend who owner-built and did all this will advise and assist if required. His job included his two new buildings, with a three-phase power feed due to the machinery requirements in his ultimate cabinet shop with large stationary power equipment.

_I gotta tell ya.... this looks exactly like a HO's math. _And it is, by a HO that does not intend to hire a pro, and does not need to. This ain't rocket science.


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## Speedy Petey

UpNorth said:


> Who says I need AFCI breakers?


The NYS Resi code and the NEC, that's who! 
Unless of course you will be ignoring those and are not getting anything inspected. 






UpNorth said:


> This ain't rocket science.


This continues to be one of the stupidest statements EVER regarding electrical work. 

Sure, any hack can nail up boxes and string cable. But it takes someone who knows what they are doing, and someone who cares about doing it right, to do a proper job. Which one are you???


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## Speedy Petey

You wanna know the accurate way to price the material only for a rough-in? 
Buy all the material plus extras. Use what you need and return the rest, just like every other DIY home depot customer. The subtract receipt two from receipt one. THAT is your material cost.:whistling


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## 480sparky

UpNorth said:


> ............
> 
> _I gotta tell ya.... this looks exactly like a HO's math. _And it is, by a HO that does not intend to hire a pro, and does not need to. This ain't rocket science.


If it's so easy, let's see you rough it in in two days. By yourself. No 18-hours days, either. Alone, get it done in 16 hours.









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## UpNorth

My last build was just before this new code took effect. 

NY is now saying, _Section J608.4, Ground-fault and arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection, states: Ground-fault and arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection shall be provided on newly installed receptacle outlets as required by Section RE3802.

_And thus, the estimate is increased by $800 to now include AFCI breakers. Total rough-in materials now estimated at about $4K.

The local BI cannot inspect electrical, and to do the final for a CO, requires that the sparky work be inspected by one of the independent pros that do that. The same guy that did my friend's very-professionally-done house plus shop plus warehouse plus guesthouse will inspect this, and his fee for doing so is not included in this rough-in-materials cost.

Rocket science is rocket science, and requires years of study and field work. Think aeronautical engineering at the Ph.D level. Residential wiring can be learned from a book from the library, and in a little less time. Relax, we'll get this done just fine. And all the plumbing, too.


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## 480sparky

UpNorth said:


> ............
> 
> Rocket science is rocket science, and requires years of study and field work. Think aeronautical engineering at the Ph.D level. Residential wiring can be learned from a book from the library, and in a little less time. Relax, we'll get this done just fine. And all the plumbing, too.


Just remember.......... *you* are the one that's going to be living in it.:whistling


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## Speedy Petey

UpNorth said:


> The local BI cannot inspect electrical, and to do the final for a CO, requires that the sparky work be inspected by one of the independent pros that do that. The same guy that did my friend's very-professionally-done house plus shop plus warehouse plus guesthouse will inspect this, and his fee for doing so is not included in this rough-in-materials cost.


Of course it does not include material. In NYS, electrical contractors, or "independent pros", DO NOT do electrical inspections. Approved third party electrical inspection firms do.






UpNorth said:


> Rocket science is rocket science, and requires years of study and field work.


That's funny. So does electrical work. :w00t:

The rocket science comparison is still uber lame.

Oh, and BTW. That book you got from the library was probably recalled due to improper and dangerous information. Just sayin'. :whistling


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## Speedy Petey

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10104.html


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## UpNorth

I should have said, "the same guy that _inspected _my friend's work."

Yeah, my friend, not an electrical pro, who did all his wiring himself.

You guys are almost as bad as plumbers. An over-the-top sense of self-worth, and quick to pull the nasty trigger on a property owner seeking to self-build. As if we're all incapable neanderthals. 

Lighten up. You coulda been a rocket scientist if you'd sat in the front row, instead of sitting in the back, throwing spitballs. You've absolutely no idea of how capable of doing this we are. Our electrical inspector will be consulted before we plan out our details and go to ordering materials. 

We are just trying now to budget out our costs, thus the question here on this forum.


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## 480sparky

UpNorth said:


> ...........You guys are almost as bad as plumbers........


Yep, plumbing is easy...... cold on the right, shït runs downhill..... that's all there is to it!




UpNorth said:


> ....... Our electrical inspector will be consulted before we plan out our details and go to ordering materials. ............



This statement right here blatantly shows how inadequate and unprepared you truly are... thinking an inspector is going to assist you in preparing a material list and laying out your work. How absolutely laughable.

Did the Chamber of Commerce do your load calculations for you? Oh, wait...... have you done a load calc?


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## Sparxx

My father has been an aeronautical engineer for decades and has a great appreciation for the vast knowledge that is required in my trade to service all sectors of industry. 
I wouldn't belittle your profession (whatever it may be), but it scares me you're doing an electrical install when you're incapable of doing a proper quote for a simple R/I - nevermind the actual wiring AND in accordance with the NEC. 
Maybe someday one of our fellow tradesman will get to post your work in the WTF? Picture Post....


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## 480sparky

Sparxx said:


> ...... Picture Post....


This work for you? :laughing:








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## Sparxx

You pulled the image right out of my mind 480!!! :laughing: 

Just read your last post Hack...I sat where I damn well pleased and it didn't seem to have any adverse effect on me getting my masters in ME or my degree in ID. I think your comments regarding "self worth" are misplaced - ever think people take pride in their careers and find it offensive when people as evidently ignorant as yourself make snide remarks?!


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## 480sparky

I want to build a deck, so I composed a material list.

2x4s, 2x6s, 2x8s, 4x4's....ah, $400 sounds good.
5/4 decking........ $300.
Nails & screws...... $75
Misc........ $50.

Sound right?

------------------------


I'm going to convert a large closet into a half bath, so I need:

1 toilet...........$50
1 vanity.........$100
1 top..............$75
1 faucet..........$25

Did I miss anything?

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I'm going to remodel my kitchen next week.

Lessee, I'm thinking $2000 in cabinets, $1000 should cover the countertops, new appliances,...... $1500 should get them.

Anything else? Oops..... I forgot $10 for screws.


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## Sparxx

480sparky said:


> I want to build a deck, so I composed a material list.
> 
> 2x4s, 2x6s, 2x8s, 4x4's....ah, $400 sounds good.
> 5/4 decking........ $300.
> Nails & screws...... $75
> Misc........ $50.
> 
> Sound right?
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> I'm going to convert a large closet into a half bath, so I need:
> 
> 1 toilet...........$50
> 1 vanity.........$100
> 1 top..............$75
> 1 faucet..........$25
> 
> Did I miss anything?
> 
> ----------------------------
> 
> I'm going to remodel my kitchen next week.
> 
> Lessee, I'm thinking $2000 in cabinets, $1000 should cover the countertops, new appliances,...... $1500 should get them.
> 
> Anything else? Oops..... I forget $10 for screws.


damn you 480!!! I just cracked open a nice cold one and now it's all over my desk...:laughing laughing laughing: 

you forgot drawer handles and a mirror for the bath, about $5


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## shesaremonclus

my whole point in this tread was that someone said that it would cost $12000.00 to wire this 3 bedroom house and that the OP was way off with his $3500.00 mat. quote. Some contractors here are two use two high end jobs with high end prices that they have lost track with real america where we use to work, build andmanufacture for a living. And that a two man crew does not need two bill 1200 to make a good living you dont have that much overhead with just 2 people pleas be realistic


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## [email protected]

shesaremonclus said:


> so this drywaller is going to leave a whole house to come and hang my 12 sheets and he will doit for less than i can dont thinks so and not better maybe a little faster. Specialty trade are not se up for small jobs period


 Your smoking something bud. Ive come in and framed two walls in a bathroom remodel while the sparky was pulling up to run the plugs and the drywaller was unloading the few pieces of rock. Job size means nothing when it comes to professional trades. That drywaller will be in and out in a day. How many days of you mucking up tape joints and not being able to match textures because you dont have all the experience will it take? I wont even attempt to patch a door knob hole in drywall, I call my drywaller and he deals with it and it comes out perfect in a tenth of the time. Its what he does everyday all day and I ll pay all day long for professional experience.


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## shesaremonclus

ubenhad4 said:


> Your smoking something bud. Ive come in and framed two walls in a bathroom remodel while the sparky was pulling up to run the plugs and the drywaller was unloading the few pieces of rock. Job size means nothing when it comes to professional trades. That drywaller will be in and out in a day. How many days of you mucking up tape joints and not being able to match textures because you dont have all the experience will it take? I wont even attempt to patch a door knob hole in drywall, I call my drywaller and he deals with it and it comes out perfect in a tenth of the time. Its what he does everyday all day and I ll pay all day long for professional experience.


 
you dont know how to do it cause you never tried maybe you do know but who knows. So if you only had to patch 4 Knob hole in a project you would call a drywaller for that and he will come out and doit and it will be worth every penny because you did not have to get your hands dirty. plus youd would be able to call him in the morning and he will be theire in the afternoon after his estimator came in and gave you a quote for 500.00 remenber the estimator need to make a % if its a 200.00 job hes not going to see you


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## shesaremonclus

remember there is a time and a place for everything and its up to you to figure it out. You are only limited by your self and your attitude


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## shesaremonclus

480sparky said:


> Time to post _the list_ again.
> 
> 
> *Business Cost List*
> 
> *Building*
> Building
> Warehouse Space
> Trash Removal
> Lawn Care
> Snow removal
> Upkeep & Repairs
> 
> *Office Expenses*
> Computers
> Stationary
> Copy machine
> Fax machine
> Forms
> Printing
> Software
> Office Equipment
> Computer maintenance
> Files
> Postage
> Office supplies
> 
> *IT*
> Internet service
> Email accounts
> Web site
> -Initial creation
> -Updating
> -Maintenance
> GPS services
> 
> *Benefits*
> Vacation Pay
> Holiday Pay
> Uniforms
> Uniform Maintenance
> Unemployment
> Bonuses
> Incentives
> Retirement Plan
> Christmas Party
> 
> *Taxes*
> Property Taxes
> Tangible Taxes
> Pay Roll Taxes
> Income Taxes
> Sales Tax
> 
> *Training*
> Management Training
> Office Training
> In-House Training
> Tech Training
> Mfg. Training
> Training Equipment
> Safety Training
> Update classes
> License testing
> 
> *Insurance*
> Building Insurance
> Liability Insurance
> Employee Insurance
> Life Insurance
> Business Insurance
> Workers Comp.
> 
> *Utilities*
> Gas
> Electricity
> Telephone / Fax lines
> Internet Service
> Toll Calls
> Telephones
> Pagers/Cell Phones
> Radio Maintenance
> 
> *Vehicles*
> Vehicle Maintenance
> Ladder Racks
> Interior bins
> Fuel
> Truck Signs / lettering / vinyl
> Tires
> 
> *Financial*
> Accounting
> Loans
> Tax Preparation
> Interest
> 30+ Day Receivables
> Bank Charges
> 
> *Travel*
> Hotel
> Meals
> Airline / vehicle
> 
> *Unique to the electrical trade*
> Permits
> Licenses
> Bonds
> Inspections
> Trade Association
> Subscriptions
> Memberships
> Dues
> Retainers
> Safety PPE
> -Lock-out/Tag-out kits
> -Fall prevention harness
> -Arc-flash clothing
> -Hard hats
> -Safety glasses
> -Hearing protection
> 
> *Tools*
> Company Tools
> Safety Equipment
> Ladders
> 2-way Radios
> Test Equipment
> Replacement Parts
> Parts Storage
> Damages
> Tool Replacement
> Job site storage
> 
> *Misc.*
> Trips to Supply House
> Theft
> Uncollected Money
> Collection fees
> Unbillable Hours
> Commissions
> Call Backs / Warranty work
> Shortages
> Bad Checks
> Delivery
> Credit Card Sales
> Drug Testing
> 
> *Legal *
> Legal advice
> Law Suits
> Incorporation / LLC fees
> 
> *Advertising*
> Marketing
> Business cards
> Signs
> Radio / TV
> Newspaper
> Flyers / brochures
> Material Purchases
> Inventory
> 
> *Labor*
> Wages
> Salaries
> Dispatcher
> Answering Service


 I bet I have a question you will not answer 

How many employees do you have and what is your gross labor sales per year


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## Tinstaafl

All right, boys.


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