# What would you do



## HUDSONVALLEYEXT (Aug 29, 2006)

After 5 years I got my first customer nightmare story


We got a small job wash+stain small deck and fence. Paint 4 interior rooms. We got the job for $2,300 we power washed the deck and the fence the next day after getting the down payment of $900.00. This was on a Friday we told them we would "shoot" for the next monday for the staining. We were not able to make it there that monday or tuesday and we even called to tell them that. Tuesday night the wife called drunk screaming at us... she was ranting and raving we have a contract BLAH BLAH we are unprofessional etc. The next day we went there to start the interior painting they told us the staining was not a big deal do it at the end. We were only able to get one guy there for the first 2 days of painting the interior. This was not good enough for them. That friday we told them we would have 2 men there painting and we would be there at 8 and but we were not there on time and the wife called again screaming and yelling. They got there at 9 and busted butt all day long and got 95% done. We were suppose to go back tomorrow to finish but they called and said we can't come until Thursday. The husband was also saying he was unhappy with the job. These people are not going to let us come back to finish the job.

We are way ahead of the $900 they paid I say they owe about $900 more would you guys take them to court or take the loss?


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## Joewho (Sep 20, 2006)

As the painter, I'd do one thing.

As the CS man, I'd do something else.

As the painter, I'd call or stop over to try and talk with them about the job, identify their exact problems and resolve to make them happy. Of course, this is going to cost you money in the end.

As the CS man, I'd ask them to let us finish the job at a discount and maybe even give them something else for free. Of course, this is going to cost you money.

Sounds like you did not promise them a schedule in writing, and did not break your end of the contract. If this is true, it's your leg to stand on in court. Trying to point this out to the customer will probably lead to more arguement. However, if you can sit them down and say YOU made a mistake by not setting up a more specific schedule and would like to make them happy, they might go for it. 

More than once, i've run into the situations affected by alcohol. I always try to bend over backwards and if that doesnt work, sometimes the lein threat will. Otherwise, it's off to court. But, in court you need documentation that you did try to resolve the situation. Billing them for the partial balance fogs the picture, bill them for the whole balance based on their unwillingness to let you finish your contract. The judge will decide if you get partial pmt.

I try to stay far away from courts, no matter how richly they deserve it, I always feel bad about it, and you get a reputation of being court happy, especially where alcohol is involved. They'll tear you to shreds with words.


Hope this helps.

You know why people love dogs? Dogs make you feel like you're the only one in their world at that time. Do that with the customers. This is really why they are reacting.


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

Here's a thought....Have you tried following through with what you tell them you're going to do? I'm certain I've read somewhere that customers like that kinda thing. In that same book, I read that they dont like when you just fail to show up after taking a 40% down payment.


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

questions/comments:

-what day did you call to let them know you couldn't make it monday or tuesday? 
-so you made them upset and then promised them an 8am start and it turned into a 9am?

honestly, it sounds like this job was no big deal to you IMO and you always need to come through especially when you mess up and are given a second chance. 

It seems like they wanted it done right away, you didn't deliver that to them, they got upset, and now here you are....

So, I agree with Joe's overall idea here...make them happy-do whatever it takes. Make them feel like they are your only focus right now(which should have been your goal from the beginning). Get the job done well, get this resolved, get paid, and pack up.


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## HUDSONVALLEYEXT (Aug 29, 2006)

We told them wens, thurs, fri. The contract says nothing about the timeframe We only told them we would try to stop to stain on that monday. we did not set it in stone. 

My business partner told me to not go back after her first ranting phonecall. He told me they would keep finding reason not to pay us


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

You and your business partner should man up and go do the job that you took money to do. Apologize for being A-holes...(because you were), and finish the job you contracted to do. Just because you didnt say it wouldnt take you 6 months to do it doesn't mean that you can just go ahead and take that long. Any rational person would assume that once you start the job, you are going to work on THAT job diligently until it is finished. That is what professionals do. You are being THAT contractor. The one evryone has a nightmare story about. You cam in, took a rather large down payment, and pretty much abandoned the job (in the customer's eyes). DO THE RIGHT THING.


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## Jethroe (Jan 27, 2007)

It sounds to me like the wife is the whole problem here. I would only deal with the husband even if she is in the same room and make more eye contact with him and go over all of the details of the job with them. Look at the work that they aren't in compliance with and let them explain to you why they are unhappy. Fix the problem maybe paint was uneven or the coats had lap marks?? or maybe the masking tape was not caulked and it bled onto the trim?? Is it a perfect job? If not you will need to fix it if so then you are right and they are out to screw anyone that comes along impossible to please them because of his wifes alcoholism.
If you cannot resolve it then its time to threaten small claims by writing them a letter and tell them of your intentions of taking them there. Most times they will settle out especially if they dont have a leg to stand on. I hate to do it but I have done this more than once and they come through most times or ignore you to see if you are serious. If you can afford it follow through and dont back off. You dont need them as a reference anyways so forget about reputation and teach em a lesson so they won't try it again.


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## HUDSONVALLEYEXT (Aug 29, 2006)

We bid the job told them we had an opening for the week before mothersday. Two weeks later he calls to hire us... he tells us he took the 3 days off. We told him we would book him for those days. We never told him we would be done in three days.

5/4/07 we powerwash deck and house + get down payment tell husband we will "TRY" to stain on Monday or Tuesday we never made it there. Wife calls Tuesday night at 10 drunk swearing at us for not coming.

5/9 1 man painting interior day one
5/10 1 man painting interior day two 50% done

5/11 Myself and another painting going the next day. Wife calls before we get there telling us husband is flipping out and we should not even come. But we went there and painted all day got 95% done.

We told the wife Monday morning we would need 2 more hours. 

Today Husband called saying is unhappy about the work. Told us we can come back until Thursday... NO touch up have been done any where in the house. A customer should not ***** about anything until we hold our hand out for final payment. We did nothing wrong

The point im getting at is there are never going to let us finish they don't want to pay.

The interior is not done how can someone pick apart unfinished work. There are several things that need a quick recoat. So that means you can just call up a contractor and start talking **** when the job is not done.


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## Wolverine-Eric (Apr 9, 2007)

I get SO irritated when service people do not keep their appointments. I work really hard and long hours. It's just disrespectful to miss appointments or show up late. 

There is only one reason to have this kind of conflict. It's a lack of communication... and... respect. So many people these days are too self-centered to make a phone call or show up on time. 

Next, let's face it, if you tell a homeowner Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday... what do they hear? MONDAY! Certainly with 5 years of experience you already knew/know this. If not... ummm... 

Last, we are all bustin' your balls here a bit by acknowleding a few of your short comings on this one. However, it doesn't make it right for them to curse and come unglued. I can certainly relate to being SO frustrated with a contractor that I wanted to curse them... but didn't. 

IMHO, I think you guys need to make this job your TOP priority... get it over with... take your lumps (if you have to)... and... move on with lessons learned. 

Plan your work... Work your plan... EVERY day!


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## toddcla2002 (Apr 25, 2005)

To avoid this problem in the future. Besides your shortcomings....you may also need a better contract. If you'd like I could send you a copy of mine. I have a clause that says touch-ups will occur at the end of the job. That avoids the run around that you are getting. Good luck!

~todd


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

HUDSONVALLEYEXT said:


> A customer should not ***** about anything until we hold our hand out for final payment. We did nothing wrong


Here's the thing-

You DID do something wrong. It's not huge, but it has consequences that have become an issue here. You have to admit you did something wrong (if anything...not the greatest communication or making every effort to make these new customers feel taken care of to the utmost). We are all noticing (from what you've said) that there are flaws in your approach to this job. 

Put yourself in their shoes...go hand someone $900 and see how quick you want them to work. 

If you are worried that you'll go back and finish and they won't pay you, either sit down with them and explain to them what you did wrong and let them know you'll give them a discount to resolve the issue, but that you expect "xxx" final payment. Not finishing is not the greatest outcome and court (for this amount) is silly.


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## Joewho (Sep 20, 2006)

In Hudsons defense, I say, he did tell them exactly what was going on.

If someone says they understand, usually you belive them. If he said he would be there later, but maybe able to get someone there on monday, it's not that hard to understand. And by giving him the downpmt., signing the contract, they say they understand AND agree.

Yeah, we all know they only heard MONDAY, but a deal is a deal.

I'd still do everything possible to correct the situation, but admitting an actual shortcoming should be done in a private anonymous situation.:whistling 

Saying he made a mistake by not being more specific or clear about the schedule is about as much as you can expect. In the back of her mind, she does know the deal. "He said monday!" No he didn't, he mentioned that he may be able to get to her sooner than promised. Among us, that's a shortcoming, in the real world, he did what he said. And more importantly, he did what he wrote and signed. That's no excuse to try and make him feel as crappy as she does every day. It's no excuse to rob him.

LOL, don't take them to court. She'll make the judge belive that you caused her drinking due to this situation.

I have go now. I must do a thorough self examination regarding my resentment against drunken ass customers. :-


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## painter14619 (May 4, 2007)

A six pack of Corona might do the trick! A peace offering maybe...put yourself in their shoes a homeowner takes off 3 days of work for what? to babysit your job. I would have questioned his decision to take days off of work and his reasoning. 4 rooms in 3 days? Are you a painter?

Sorry, my crew (3) does a full repaint in roughly 4 hours per room 2 coats. I think the customer has a right to be mad at you if these were average size rooms. 

For now, I would follow the customer's lead, go back on Thursday with my tail between my legs, and my crew right around the corner ready to sling shot in once you have smoothed things over. Have a conversation with them and listen to what they have to say. Their "issues" need to be heard, validated by you as genuine issues, and apologized for whatever they may be. 

I would go back knowing in my mind that I am going to do whatever it takes to smooth things over, finish the job, and collect more money on the job. If they say they are not going to pay, I would finish the job anyway to protect my name, take pictures, and take them to small claims court.


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## remodeling joe (Feb 21, 2007)

if you say monday, tuesday, or wednesday regardless of these non-specific dates to show; CALL the customer at least 2 days before showing with a SPECIFIC DATE AND TIME. AND BE THERE ON TIME!!!
PERIOD.!!
as for the drunk wife callin and cursing , i'd expect an appology when i'm finish the job. if not; never return.


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

painter14619 said:


> Sorry, my crew (3) does a full repaint in roughly 4 hours per room 2 coats


I hope you don't warranty your work painting like this. No offense, but painting 2 coats in 4 hours is not something I would be bragging about. And what about ceilings and trim in these "full repaints". What about caulk drying time? What about hole fill? 

I have a really hard time believing you mean full repaints of 2 rooms. 

But either way...you simply can't hand the paint warranty on to your customers.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

*Mr*

Sorry, my crew (3) does a full repaint in roughly 4 hours per room 2 coats.  
How can this be?? 2 coats in 4 hours:w00t:


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## fathersonfab (Apr 27, 2007)

I think what most people are saying here is, *Finish The Job*.
In my experience, NOTHING is worth the hassle and headache of disgruntled customers. They will call and harass you to no end. On top of that, your own guilt about an unfinished job.

_*My advice would be, Drop what your doing, get every man you have over to the house ASAP, and finish.*_ 

Your going to loose money on it anyway, you might as well get the monkey off your back and hopefully still have a happy customer. I've had to do it and it SUCKS, but the relief you feel afterwards makes it all worth. 

Sometimes, the WORST customers, give the BEST referals.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

I think dude is referring to full repaint per room, 2 hours... come back next day and 2 hours..... 4 hours. I could say the same, my crew could run ceilings, walls and trim in a standard size room about the same speed.


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## Paintpimp (Nov 15, 2006)

*Different Twist*

Try this analogy and see if how you feel on the other foot. You got a small job, wash and stain small deck and fence and paint 4 interior rooms. (Sound familiar so far?):thumbsup: You pressure wash the deck and fence on Friday and need it to dry before you stain. You call the paint store and tell them you need the paint for the whole project delivered this afternoon. They said that they are swamped and cant deliver , they'll shoot for Monday. The paint store ran out of the stain you need.  It should be in on the next truck, they call you on Monday or Tuesday and say they can make the delivery yet. You get a little PO'ed by Tuesday night:furious: . You call up the paint store and start bitching that you had an agreement that the stain and paint would be there BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, you guys are so unprofessional. They said we can drop off the interior paint Wednesday. They drop off enough paint to be half done. They say, "Sorry, we ran out of the tint and could only give you half the paint you ordered. You work for two days. You still need the other half of the paint. The paint store tracks down the "truck". It will be here right away Friday morning and we will deliver to you at 8:00 a.m. You get to the job site and 8:00 comes and finally the delivery driver drops off the paint and gives you an excuse "couldnt find the address, traffic jam, needed gas":blink: You are 95% done and need just one more gallon. You call up the paint store and say you will come in and get the gallon of paint. They say "well we're closed weekends, Monday is Memorial day (store closed.) Tuesday and Wednesday are rainy (can't finish staining). You are so upset at the service you received. You have lost more than your $900 for the job and you want at least another $900 for the labor, should you take the paint store to Court? This analogy is exactly what YOU did to your customers.


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## HUDSONVALLEYEXT (Aug 29, 2006)

We finished the job today but they would not pay us. They said "they wanted it to be light out" for they can look everything over...My a**hole brother forgot to put 2 coats in the contract we ended up doing like 4 in some places.


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## pstorey (Apr 23, 2007)

great response pimp.


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## painter14619 (May 4, 2007)

Paint Pimp-

At the first notification of the paint store running out of paint why didn't you go to a different store? Use one of their competitors and tell them they lost your business because they could not provide service to you. There are only a few companies that deliver paint. I can't imagine that there is not a HD or Lowes around your area. Or if it is SWP they have a store within 20 minutes of eachother, why wouldn't you drive to another store that carries the same material? Seems silly that you would wait a week for material to come in, was it something specific you were waiting for?


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

painter14619 said:


> Paint Pimp-
> 
> At the first notification of the paint store running out of paint why didn't you go to a different store? Use one of their competitors and tell them they lost your business because they could not provide service to you. There are only a few companies that deliver paint. I can't imagine that there is not a HD or Lowes around your area. Or if it is SWP they have a store within 20 minutes of eachother, why wouldn't you drive to another store that carries the same material? Seems silly that you would wait a week for material to come in, was it something specific you were waiting for?


Your joking with this post I hope....you do know what an analogy is, right?


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## Dorman Painting (May 2, 2006)

I'd actually be embarrased if I were you, you simply didn't come thru on your word. The HO expected you to do what you told them, go over and finish it up and move on. Next time keep a solid schedule, scheduling is critical in this business.


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## SeanATL (Apr 6, 2007)

Dorman Painting said:


> I'd actually be embarrased if I were you, you simply didn't come thru on your word. The HO expected you to do what you told them, go over and finish it up and move on. Next time keep a solid schedule, scheduling is critical in this business.


Yeah, I agree. Sounds like this was a horribly managed job.

You can't make comments like "we said we would be there wed, thurs, and friday, but we didn't tell them we'd be finished then."

Obviously you weren't communicating well with the customer at all. Did you give them any kind of idea of the time frame of the job? Were they just suppose to know how long the job should take?

I can see their frustration and I would have been pissed too.

When people are spending $2,300 on something, you can't bull**** around with them about when you're going to be there, say you're going to be there at 8, but you don't show til 9, etc.....


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## Capella (May 17, 2007)

*Touch up clause*



toddcla2002 said:


> To avoid this problem in the future. Besides your shortcomings....you may also need a better contract. If you'd like I could send you a copy of mine. I have a clause that says touch-ups will occur at the end of the job. That avoids the run around that you are getting. Good luck!
> 
> ~todd


Hi, Todd. Would you mind sending me a copy? I'd like to see how you put the "touch up clause" in there. Thanks a lot! ddalton - at - capellasolutions dotcom


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## Wolverine-Eric (Apr 9, 2007)

Congratulation on getting through the job...


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## HUDSONVALLEYEXT (Aug 29, 2006)

He did not pay us the night we finished. There was nothing he could say it was flawless. The next morning I walked away with half of the final payment. They still owe $750 I am going to sue them I guess.

He keeps telling us he thinks the walls need another coat. We are on like coat 5. When my salesman sold them the job he told me we were going to have problems with them. I should have listened to him. These people are not from our area. The wife kept rolling her eyes she did not want to pay to get the house painted. Her husband is a building engineer and he paints but he "did not have the time to do it" himself.

As for the time frame thing we never tell people a set time we are always held of on other jobs. We finished only a few hours over what we told them.


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

are you really going to sue them for $750? 

...no comment


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## HUDSONVALLEYEXT (Aug 29, 2006)

yeah....its not for the money just the fact


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

The fact that you had an incomplete contract and nothing you say will fly in court unless the contract included everything (including a start and finish date and much more) is one thing. Typcially contractors give customers at least 1 month to fork over due money before even considering court because of the stigma and the hassle.

Here are the contract guidelines for Connecticut...don't know what they are for your area, but I'm sure they are similar

click http://www.baec.net/law_home_contractor.pdf

anyway...you seem like you just don't want to admit you did anything wrong...this attitude will only come back to bite you 

staying humble is a much more attractive trait than the opposite


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## sean26 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Help!*

I have operated a small-scale painting company in Hamilton Ontario for about seven years, and have found this forum very helpful on a few occasions. I am presently in a situation very similar to Hudson’s, with regard to a non-paying customer (although not as a consequence of scheduling problems). In my case, the conflict with the customer arose around the issue of colour selection. After having me test about five different colours on the walls of this home, the homeowner finally decided on Benjamin Moore’s ‘Bonaparte Red’, signed a ‘colour release’ clause in the contract, and gave the go-ahead to paint the room.

I don’t have the time or the patience to relay the BS my crew and myself had to endure at the hands this insufferable imbecile during the five days it took us to complete this humungous room. Suffice it to say that after having completed the job to perfection, this person refused to pay the balance owing on the contract – $3,400.00. The complaint? – The red ‘we’ had chosen for the room was too ‘orangey’. After trying (and utterly failing) to convince the customer that it might take a while to get used to this new bold colour (the room had previously been painted an insipid pink-beige), I reluctantly brought up the release clause in the contract, and offered to repaint the room at an additional cost. At the mention of the phrase ‘additional cost’ the customer flew into a rage, re-affirmed her decision to refuse payment, and told me to get the F out of her house (alcohol issues here, as with the case above). 

Now, I consulted this board looking for some constructive advice on how to recover the balance owing for this job. Hudson’s situation closely resembled mine, so I read through the posts hoping to find some input on how to deal with a no-pay. I could not believe the sanctimonious, self-righteous tone of most of the comments directed at poor Hudson! Have none of you guys ever had to attempt to reason with an irrational/alcoholic, non-paying customer? Are any of you responsible for paying employees other than yourself?

This customer (my customer) is clearly in the wrong – and I know that were I to take the matter to court, I would be awarded the balance owing on the contract. The problem is, I need the cash flow now – not in the year or so it would likely take to get this customer into small claims. I’m looking for input from anyone who has experience dealing with non-paying customers. Are there any psychological tactics that have worked for you? I’ve heard of ‘agencies’ that specialize in recovering bad debts for people in the trades. Has anyone on this board ever employed the services of such an agency? If so, how much can I expect to pay for this service?

Please excuse the desperate tone of this email, but I’m really at my wits end here. May has been a disastrous month for us, with one cancellation at the beginning of the month (for a $5,000 residential repaint), and now this no-pay. With the exception of two small jobs coming up next week, my next big job doesn’t start until June 4. I don’t think I’ve ever had such a slow spring in my seven years of self-employment. And I’ve certainly never had to deal with a customer who refuses to pay for a completed paint job. Help!!!


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

The fact that the husband is an engineer speaks volumes. They are notorious for being know-it-all control freaks...I've heard several stories about problems with them.


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## rws (Nov 26, 2004)

Right in there with doctors and lawyers


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

sean26 said:


> I have operated a small-scale painting company in Hamilton Ontario for about seven years, and have found this forum very helpful on a few occasions. I am presently in a situation very similar to Hudson’s, with regard to a non-paying customer (although not as a consequence of scheduling problems). In my case, the conflict with the customer arose around the issue of colour selection. After having me test about five different colours on the walls of this home, the homeowner finally decided on Benjamin Moore’s ‘Bonaparte Red’, signed a ‘colour release’ clause in the contract, and gave the go-ahead to paint the room.
> 
> I don’t have the time or the patience to relay the BS my crew and myself had to endure at the hands this insufferable imbecile during the five days it took us to complete this humungous room. Suffice it to say that after having completed the job to perfection, this person refused to pay the balance owing on the contract – $3,400.00. The complaint? – The red ‘we’ had chosen for the room was too ‘orangey’. After trying (and utterly failing) to convince the customer that it might take a while to get used to this new bold colour (the room had previously been painted an insipid pink-beige), I reluctantly brought up the release clause in the contract, and offered to repaint the room at an additional cost. At the mention of the phrase ‘additional cost’ the customer flew into a rage, re-affirmed her decision to refuse payment, and told me to get the F out of her house (alcohol issues here, as with the case above).
> 
> ...


 
Ontario was pretty good when I lived there, if you are having trouble getting paid, don't use small claims, it is slow, if you have a regular lawyer have him place the lien, mine never charged me up front for this, he always added his fees to the lien, plus his cost to remove, this $ 3400.00 should now cost the owner about 5k +/-, 80% of these people pay within days of getting a lien, their lender is notified, it just gets messy, and if this doesn't work, next time you file your GST return this job has a deduction as non payment of a tax (Rev Can wants it's money) you need to show just cause and the debtor, they will follow up for their 7% plus fees.


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

Sean...you might want to make a font change...I'm blind now. You're situation is quite different from Hudson's. You seem to have done everything correctly and just had an unreasonable A-Hole for a customer. In Hudson's case, although he ended up making good (sort of) the damage was done. Contractors have a bad name because of all the stories about taking down payments and not showing up to do the work. Homeowners start out from the get-go with their guard up suspicious of all of us, so it's no surprise that when he failed to follow through with the work, their fears were confirmed. I'll admit that they overreacted a bit, but their anger was somewhat justified. I take my hat off to him for attempting to make it right, but the damage was done. If we have your whole story, the customer you're dealing with is just a freakshow. Your only recourse is to start with a lien, and follow through to a lawsuit if it comes down to that.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I was working a job with my uncle once, he arranged the job and never does contracts. Anyways the H/O keeps asking us over and over what happens if somebody refuses to pay, I asked if everything was looking good and he says yes everything looks great, but he still keeps asking.
Finally my uncle, who sometimes makes me wonder about his sanity, tells the guy that if the customer doesnt pay then we remove all the paint. The guys laughs and asks how would we remove paint, my uncle,who resembles Charles Manson, looks at the guy and says " we burn it off". The H/O never asked us again, and to this day I am not sure if my uncle was really willing to burn this guys house down or not.
I have only threatened a H/O once, we had a contract but the guy kept wanting extras, like instead of just repainting his front door he wanted me to strip it to the bare metal and reprime it first. I kept telling him that the contract he signed gave a detailed list of everything I was goning to do and stripping the door was never mentioned and would not be done with out an extra charge to him. So then he tells me if I dont do it that he wont pay me and that it would cost me more to sue him then it would be worth. So I take out my phone and take a picture of him, then I call my brother and tell him I have a guy who wont pay me and that I am sending him his picture and address, my brother has no idea what the hell I am talking about at this point. then I tell my brother "yeah just do what you did last time" and I hang up. I then start packing up my stuff and loading my truck. The H/O goes in the house then comes back out with his wife and they both say that they are sorry and that I am doing a fine job and that sometimes they get a little too picky on things and that they want me to finish the job. So I call my brother back and say never mind then hang up. The rest of the job went great and I got paid what I bid plus the wife tipped me $20 extra and told me lunch was on her that day. My brother stopped by that night and wanted to know what the hell was I talking about on the phone, but once I explained he thought it was funny and now tells people he handles my collections.


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## Jethroe (Jan 27, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> The guys laughs and asks how would we remove paint, my uncle,who resembles Charles Manson, looks at the guy and says " we burn it off".
> 
> 
> > Hilariouse!! I think thats totally funny! Lets keep on smarting off to dumb obnoxiouse customers and maybe they will get the message worldwide!!!


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## Wolverine-Eric (Apr 9, 2007)

sean26 said:


> I have operated a small-scale painting company in Hamilton Ontario for about seven years, and have found this forum very helpful on a few occasions. I am presently in a situation very similar to Hudson’s, with regard to a non-paying customer (although not as a consequence of scheduling problems). In my case, the conflict with the customer arose around the issue of colour selection. After having me test about five different colours on the walls of this home, the homeowner finally decided on Benjamin Moore’s ‘Bonaparte Red’, signed a ‘colour release’ clause in the contract, and gave the go-ahead to paint the room.
> 
> I don’t have the time or the patience to relay the BS my crew and myself had to endure at the hands this insufferable imbecile during the five days it took us to complete this humungous room. Suffice it to say that after having completed the job to perfection, this person refused to pay the balance owing on the contract – $3,400.00. The complaint? – The red ‘we’ had chosen for the room was too ‘orangey’. After trying (and utterly failing) to convince the customer that it might take a while to get used to this new bold colour (the room had previously been painted an insipid pink-beige), I reluctantly brought up the release clause in the contract, and offered to repaint the room at an additional cost. At the mention of the phrase ‘additional cost’ the customer flew into a rage, re-affirmed her decision to refuse payment, and told me to get the F out of her house (alcohol issues here, as with the case above).
> 
> ...


Collections agencies usually take 1/2... A letter from an attorney might get results... OR... you could send them letters in really small font to hurt their eyes... Then... they might like the red better!


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## DPainting (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm going to out and say this but you should have listened to your salesman...especially if you trust his word and he gets to know people by first impressions. 

If I'm faced with an unreasonable possible customer I evaluate what are the major flaws with them and then decide if its worth it to get involved. Otherwise I'll just price them high and refer another painter if they don't like my price. 

On another note I'd tighten up the completion and duration of a job in the contract. Its saves for any hassles in the end.


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## painter14619 (May 4, 2007)

Sean 26-

Take this to heart... I do not purchase paint any longer. In fact, I tell my customers that they need to purchase their own paint and if they buy the cheap stuff I will need to charge them more because it takes more coats to cover. Especially in your situation with women homeowners who are always right, there is no arguing with them. have her purchase the paint she wants for the correct color and repaint it if possible to get her to pay. 

Customers that do not pay in NY are subject to having a lein put on their personal property or house through the court system. Also, it is a matter of public record for other contractors to see for future reference, assuming they choose to do their homework.


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## sean26 (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks for all the helpful advise. 

The more I deal with this client, the more I think that there are mental health issues at work here – not just an unreasonable customer. Fortunately, this woman’s daughter got wind of the situation, and called me last week to apologize for her mother. She all but begged me not to take the matter to court, offering instead to act as an intermediary between her mother and myself. I filled her in on the conditions of the contract and the amount owing and she promised to get back to me last weekend. However, having not heard a word from the daughter since our talk, I suppose my only option is to attempt to put a lien on the property. If this doesn’t work, I’m screwed. I’ll keep you informed on the progress of this case. Thanks again for your input.


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## Eric S (Feb 12, 2006)

Looking bad once. EX: being late probably goes over ok with the clients. It's the repitition of problems that have added up to this nightmare. I would make sure no more excuses would precede the completed job being realized and would also do what I needed to to make this situation it's best. If your company has upset only one client during a five year span you are doing very good.

Someone calling you in a drunken state and bitching you out lends to the likelyhood that your client is not the best of clients to deal with anyway.

On the money side:

Do what you can to get all that you can and deserve while it is still profitable to do so. I think that over this kind of money a person tends to lose more by going to court than they would to move on to a better job to do.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> I was working a job with my uncle once,..... he thought it was funny and now tells people he handles my collections.


That is friggin' awesome!

I hope to never be in that situation (burning the house down to get the copper back) ...but the phone thing is a riot. :thumbup:


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## Flikka (Feb 22, 2006)

Dang I had a response just about done and bang!! It's gone and I've got to get to a job site......good thing I didn't tell her what time I'd be there. 

Sean,

I'm sure you know this but just in case....in Ontario you have 45 days from vacating the job site to issue a lien on a property and then another 45 days to perfect the lien which is forcing the property into a sale situation. No home owner is going to let that happen over $3,400. If you do not place a lien within the 45 day constraint you will only have small claims court as an option. I would be concerned that the daughter may be aware of this as she is now involved but you haven't heard from her for a week. Once the lien is in place and they receive notice I'm sure you'll get your money quickly. I'm sure this is something you could do yourself too save some money but a letter from a lawyer stating the lien is in place might receive quicker results.

On a personal note, I currently have Bonapart in my living room and love it. I don't find it an orangey red at all....compared to Rapture it is a bit I guess but as you already told her she may need to live with it for a while. 

Cheers
Mary


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## DesPro (Nov 2, 2006)

If all traditional collection methods fail, you could try this approach .:laughing:


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## Riverside Paint (Sep 16, 2006)

HUDSONVALLEYEXT said:


> After 5 years I got my first customer nightmare story
> 
> 
> We got a small job wash+stain small deck and fence. Paint 4 interior rooms. We got the job for $2,300 we power washed the deck and the fence the next day after getting the down payment of $900.00. This was on a Friday we told them we would "shoot" for the next monday for the staining. We were not able to make it there that monday or tuesday and we even called to tell them that. Tuesday night the wife called drunk screaming at us... she was ranting and raving we have a contract BLAH BLAH we are unprofessional etc. The next day we went there to start the interior painting they told us the staining was not a big deal do it at the end. We were only able to get one guy there for the first 2 days of painting the interior. This was not good enough for them. That friday we told them we would have 2 men there painting and we would be there at 8 and but we were not there on time and the wife called again screaming and yelling. They got there at 9 and busted butt all day long and got 95% done. We were suppose to go back tomorrow to finish but they called and said we can't come until Thursday. The husband was also saying he was unhappy with the job. These people are not going to let us come back to finish the job.
> ...


Sounds like you were more interested in collecting cash than working (on their project). Also sounds like youve done everything in your power to make them angry. I wouldnt go back if I were you.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

The way I see it you handed the Customer a Magnifying Glass when you took their money and just power washed, cause they had all weekend to look at the job you started. then when you didn't show on Monday well the glass got bigger then by the time you did get back there well the glass was very large and anything that they spottted drunk or not just made it all bad for you. I would return and offer the couple a nice Dinner at the better resturant in your area, Sometimes a Free Dinner can change peoples opinons, In 27 years in the trades I have seen my fair share of the All them Dollars and No F$#@in Sence, But you handed them the Magnifying Glass and once it's out it's pretty hard to change it.
Oh Modern your Uncle is my kinda guy I think me and him would get along great, I like to use the one were I tell customer who gets like that, I have this buddy who's 6'5" about 280lbs and he's got to be the meanest Black man I know and he just hates to hear I'm having a hard time collecting money's. and he always likes helping me out, cause I always pay him good. LOL well believe me they change their tune real quick.


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## DelW (Jul 7, 2005)

I have a buddy that does landscaping, he had a customer keep asking him "what would you do if I didn't pay" He went to his truck and got a jug of Round Up (grass killer) and told him he would write FU in his lawn...
He got paid:laughing:


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