# How do I explain this to my client



## fitful2u (Jan 22, 2013)

I am a GC in Phoenix AZ. I did a walk thru with my client the other day to inspect the finished drywall texturing. They found a large hump in the ceiling where my new board meets the existing drywall ceiling. Turns out the hump was caused by a low beam & strap. The defection was about 3/4" or more. My drywaller fixed the hump by cutting out the drywall at the beam & used mesh tape & hot mud right over the beam (no drywall there at all). The client is happy with how it looks now.

My drywaller charged me extra for this repair, but he client doesn't want to pay for it. He says it should have been done this way initially & is accusing me of charging him for work that should have been done right in the first place. Is he correct? Would a good drywaller have noticed this & done something different to begin with?


----------



## Ancient Rocker (Jul 25, 2009)

Not only should the drywall contractor have noticed it, but you should have too. Split the difference with your irresponsible DC and chalk it up as a lesson learned. Don't be surprised if his "repair" fails either.


----------



## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

I wouldn't pay you any more either. I paid you for a finished product...how many times it takes you and your drywaller to get it right is none of my concern.

And I'd be calling you when all that crap fell out of that gap too. If you're not willing to pay to do it right, then you can pay to do it repeatedly.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

fitful2u said:


> I am a GC in Phoenix AZ. I did a walk thru with my client the other day to inspect the finished drywall texturing. They found a large hump in the ceiling where my new board meets the existing drywall ceiling. Turns out the hump was caused by a low beam & strap. The defection was about 3/4" or more. My drywaller fixed the hump by cutting out the drywall at the beam & used mesh tape & hot mud right over the beam (no drywall there at all). The client is happy with how it looks now.
> 
> My drywaller charged me extra for this repair, but he client doesn't want to pay for it. He says it should have been done this way initially & is accusing me of charging him for work that should have been done right in the first place. Is he correct? Would a good drywaller have noticed this & done something different to begin with?


You are both to blame.(sort of) Who set the joist/trusses?? And whoever hung the board should have said something to somebody too. But then they loose money because somebody else screwed up. :sad::blink:

I've fixed hundreds of bad truss setting issues! String line all ceilings and fix as needed. You say it is ready to hang, then it better be ready or that's what you end up with.

Good luck and welcome to the site.


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

fitful2u said:


> I am a GC in Phoenix AZ. I did a walk thru with my client the other day to inspect the finished drywall texturing. They found a large hump in the ceiling where my new board meets the existing drywall ceiling. Turns out the hump was caused by a low beam & strap. The defection was about 3/4" or more. My drywaller fixed the hump by cutting out the drywall at the beam & used mesh tape & hot mud right over the beam (no drywall there at all). The client is happy with how it looks now.
> 
> My drywaller charged me extra for this repair, but he client doesn't want to pay for it. He says it should have been done this way initially & is accusing me of charging him for work that should have been done right in the first place. Is he correct? Would a good drywaller have noticed this & done something different to begin with?


That was your first free call back..When that mesh cracks you'll have another.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

fitful2u said:


> My drywaller charged me extra for this repair, but he client doesn't want to pay for it. He says it should have been done this way initially & is accusing me of charging him for work that should have been done right in the first place. Is he correct? Would a good drywaller have noticed this & done something different to begin with?


A 3/4" step between the old and new drywall? Yes, it should have been caught by framers and drywallers. How old and new gets blended together is something of a fundamental, especially on ceilings.

As for the fix, it may or may not be a cracking problem in the future


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

fitful2u said:


> My drywaller charged me extra for this repair, but he client doesn't want to pay for it. He says it should have been done this way initially & is accusing me of charging him for work that should have been done right in the first place. Is he correct? Would a good drywaller have noticed this & done something different to begin with?


Your client is right... he didn't pay for a bump... a 3/4" bump is obvious even to a newb drywaller..

Nor should you have to pay for it either... this one is on the drywaller... 

Let me as you this... if it was YOUR house, would you pay for it? Of course not... and neither should the HO, nor should you...

Is he going to reimburse you for the time you took to go back to deal with an un-happy client because of his work?


----------



## fitful2u (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. as for who's to blame, it is an existing house there was no framer other than the original builder. The beam is part of a flat roof system with joists hanging off of it. Which is set on a block wall. I can't raise the beam without affecting the load or the roof above. I can't shave the beam without affecting the strength of it. 

I appreciate the opinions of weather it should have been caught at first or not. But if the beam couldn't have been move/ change I guess the only other option would have been to fur-out the joist near the beam. That would usually be done by a framer if this was a new build or an addition. Are you guys saying that this would be a common aspect of a good drywaller?


----------



## dreamzdecora (Sep 17, 2013)

Ancient Rocker said:


> Not only should the drywall contractor have noticed it, but you should have too. Split the difference with your irresponsible DC and chalk it up as a lesson learned. Don't be surprised if his "repair" fails either.


I believe this is the best way to do it....once we set the price - any client will hate to hear about Change Order cost.
I am sure you can talk with other party to split the cost, everyone needs job at some point of time. So no contractors would like to think that this will be my last job with you.


----------



## barry1219 (Oct 8, 2011)

Bottom line to me is..not who is right or wrong..that matters for future work..immediate concern is :
A) Customer is happy.
B) How much is this extra repair?
C) What % it is of total job cost ?
D) Did I tell sub to repair and we will figure out the cost later? or did sub call me and tell me all work was done and this is a surprise.


----------



## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

barry1219 said:


> Bottom line to me is..not who is right or wrong..that matters for future work..immediate concern is :
> A) Customer is happy.
> B) How much is this extra repair?
> C) What % it is of total job cost ?
> D) Did I tell sub to repair and we will figure out the cost later? *or did sub call me and tell me all work was done and this is a surprise.*


To me, this wouldn't be a problem. 

Sub was there, client saw the crap-azz work that was done the first time, sub said "no problem, it'll be fixed next time you walk in the room :thumbsup: " (not that patched with hot mud and mesh is what I consider "fixed", but none-the-less). 

Makes it look like the sub and I have a GREAT working relationship (no need to ask, just get it done), whether it's true or not, and it makes me look good to the client.

I'm happy, and I'll pay ya...no problem. BUT, go back and take the time to do it right so neither of us have to go back and deal with it again. And then I'll pay ya for the whole works. And next time, PLEASE do it right to begin with, knowing that payment isn't a problem....deal?


----------



## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Muds cheap. Float it out. Lol


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

KAP said:


> Your client is right... he didn't pay for a bump... a 3/4" bump is obvious even to a newb drywaller..
> 
> Nor should you have to pay for it either... this one is on the drywaller...
> 
> ...


We are not wall and ceiling levelers . I do agree with you though ..The D/C should have pointed out the issue before hang..
HELL....He went back !!and fixed the problem well enough to please the H/O.. Why not get it right from the go??


fitful2u said:


> Thanks for the feedback. as for who's to blame, it is an existing house there was no framer other than the original builder. The beam is part of a flat roof system with joists hanging off of it. Which is set on a block wall. I can't raise the beam without affecting the load or the roof above. I can't shave the beam without affecting the strength of it.
> 
> I appreciate the opinions of weather it should have been caught at first or not. But if the beam couldn't have been move/ change I guess the only other option would have been to fur-out the joist near the beam. That would usually be done by a framer if this was a new build or an addition. Are you guys saying that this would be a common aspect of a good drywaller?


NO!
If I half to carry in lumber and a skill saw. that makes me a carpenter!!!
Please tell me your not one of those truck aS$ G/Cs that sub everything out then expect the subs to do your job for you.
I don't mean to sound like a [email protected] fitful And I don't sweat the penny annie issues ..I'll take care of the ''leave it for the next guy'' BS to an extent. If I see something the G/C should have taken care of I will call him . AGAIN..We are not ceiling @wall levelers! Sheet rock goes with whats there.


----------



## AARC Drywall (May 11, 2008)

WOW!!!!
Why do we never have time to do things right, but always make time to do it twice?
The DC should be on the hook.....for all costs, and should be made to fix it properly...and not wait until it cracks...If it is fix'd now its considered pro active....not reactive...

just our 2c worth


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

GC is responsible for providing a flat/level/plumb surface for the drywaller unless specified otherwise. I wouldn't ask my DC to eat a repair due to bad framing.

I don't care what the original framing was like. You contracted to do the ceiling and that means doing it right, unless specified otherwise. If there was no way to know that you'd need to add in furring strips and level out the whole ceiling before you got started then it could have been a change order, BEFORE you got into it. Doing it wrong and then trying to make it a change order after the HO complains will never fly.


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

When old meets new It's A PITA! If you want a top notch job! Rip it all out and start over with new. It's cheaper that way on EVERYONE! 

''It is what it is''...Never turns out as good as what it could have been!:whistling


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Drywall is only as good as the framing is. :whistling


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Maybe it's different in different parts of the country,

but around here in CO and in my very limited experience in Cali, the DC usually walks the job with me and notes if any significant issues for shaving shimming, (usually with chalk or a spray can,) and his boys will do the normal/minor paper shimming.....

and my guys would never just nail DW over any bad framing.

Must be different where you are..... who is responsible for paper shimming???????

Best


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Maybe it's different in different parts of the country,
> 
> but around here in CO and in my very limited experience in Cali, the DC usually walks the job with me and notes if any significant issues for shaving shimming, (usually with chalk or a spray can,) and his boys will do the normal/minor paper shimming.....
> 
> ...


On remodels, if I get a quote from my DC then it's before the space is stripped so it can be really hard to spot issues like this. I'm sure he figures for some shimming but not leveling an entire wall/ceiling.

3/4" is a bit more than paper shimming.


----------



## A-1 Interiors (Oct 12, 2011)

Should your drywaller be held responsible for ??? the roofers work ? the plumbers?
Other peoples lack of ability to see a potential problem before it happens?
My opinion (for what its worth)The board hanger should not be called in until the job is ready for him And fixing framing issues are not really in his job description.
Unless you pointed it out and agreed he would fix it . 
I hope it works out for you 
PS I hope he gave you a warranty on that repair job


----------



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

fitful2u said:


> That would usually be done by a framer if this was a new build or an addition. Are you guys saying that this would be a common aspect of a good drywaller?


Someone has to check it wether it's you, the framer, or the drywaller. But there's only one person responsible for making sure that it is checked, that's you. Neither the drywaller or framer knows how you are running the project, they are not going to know if you have someone else already checking that or not. There's lots of different ways you can go about it, you can have the drywaller check and make a list of everything that needs to be fixed, then have the framer fix it, and you being the GC double check it. Usually your drywall guy is more than happy to make a punch list for you if you ask him, it makes it easier for him too if the framing is straight. Which may or may not be a good idea asking, he can start getting too picky and tell you to fix stuff where you can't even fit a butt strip under the straight edge.

If this was new construction then whoever supplies the material plays a role as to who fixes things like that. As a framer I'm not going to spend time shaving down a bunch of crooked studs that the GC supplied for me, if I supplied the material then I would. If its an existing building then I'd say you should be the one checking the frame for missing backing, furring, ceiling drops, etc. That ceiling should have been furred down, now there's a good chance you'll have cracks. Better give him a good warranty on fixing cracks, because it's your fault.

I don't understand why you would even ask your client to pay for a mistake you made. If you went to the doctor and he operated on the wrong arm, would you want to pay him for that mistake? Put yourself in the customers position, you really need to have some integrity because you had none in this case. Your client already felt you were trying to scam him, he's not going to be giving you any referrals or repeat work.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

I guess the original D/C does not know what "float" means... 

I've yet to rock a house that had perfect framing... :laughing:

He saw the problem before, during and after the install... and could have done what he did afterwards to fix it in the first place...

IMHO, this is on the D/C...


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Maybe it's different in different parts of the country,
> 
> but around here in CO and in my very limited experience in Cali, the DC usually walks the job with me and notes if any significant issues for shaving shimming, (usually with chalk or a spray can,) and his boys will do the normal/minor paper shimming.....
> 
> ...


So your frame is off by a 1/4 to 3/4 ??? Is that what your saying??
Don't call me ! Call the Mexicans!


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

KAP said:


> I guess the original D/C does not know what "float" means...
> 
> I've yet to rock a house that had perfect framing... :laughing:
> 
> ...


Would be nice to see a pic of the op's ceiling ? 

When is it NOT! The D/C's fault? :laughing: I could write a book on wood framing!!!


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Where is the GC that is supposed to be riding herd on this whole mess?


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Maybe it's different in different parts of the country,
> 
> but around here in CO and in my very limited experience in Cali, the DC usually walks the job with me and notes if any significant issues for shaving shimming, (usually with chalk or a spray can,) and his boys will do the normal/minor paper shimming.....
> 
> ...





EthanB said:


> On remodels, if I get a quote from my DC then it's before the space is stripped so it can be really hard to spot issues like this. I'm sure he figures for some shimming but not leveling an entire wall/ceiling.
> 
> 3/4" is a bit more than paper shimming.





A-1 INTERIORS said:


> Should your drywaller be held responsible for ??? the roofers work ? the plumbers?
> Other peoples lack of ability to see a potential problem before it happens?
> My opinion (for what its worth)The board hanger should not be called in until the job is ready for him And fixing framing issues are not really in his job description.
> Unless you pointed it out and agreed he would fix it .
> ...


*Kap, Ken , Ethan, A1.....*I think we're all sorta saying the same thing.... just with different fact situations... and maybe with regional customery differences.

If the DC walked, or speced out the job prior to exposure of the material framing issue... certainly he would not, IMO, be responsible for reframing issues or substantial furring out issues... however, he's wrong for a crew that has the attitude that there only job is no nail DW to existing studs, and try to go over a 3/4 lip.

They should have notified the DC and GC immediately and gone to other work or shut down, pending the GC Dc direction. I think the GC is respomsible for fixing framing, DC is responsible for taking down/redo anything that now needs shimming out.

Same issue if the DC walked the job when exposed and missed it... it's still a GC issue but the DC crew should never have just gone over it.

Either circumstances, (unforseen) or two parties honestly made a mistake (oversight).... I think reasonable parties would split it.

Just my opinion.

Maybe some parts of the country the DC just nails on studs as they are. But around here, they are responsible for for producing a satisfactory product with normal (not 3/4 transitions) "paper" shimming.

If there was a contract, perhaps these issues/understandings are written out.

Best
Peter
.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

blacktop said:


> So your frame is off by a 1/4 to 3/4 ??? Is that what your saying??
> Don't call me ! Call the Mexicans!


Blacktop.... I'm not sure what you meant.... but let me say the mexican crews around here would not have DW'd over that....

they would have said in broken English, we have a problem.... can you shave that, or we will have to substantially shim 5 joists back and extra time... and I would have made a decision and paid them for the extra work.

Would you sir have DW'd that.... and in your part of the country, are you responsible for any degree of shimming, or is your job solely to nail DW to studs as they are...and to hell with how it appears...????

Honest question...
Best


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

In Cali.... we were new in that part of the country, my son just simple asked the DC what he would do......

We had never seen the wet doug as in Co we use a KD SPF.

He was great.... as normal procedure came out for his contract price...pointed out and marked out some of our bad framing.... we fixed it.... his crews came back and paper shimmed as necessary.... and he produced a great product.

Around here, we don't have the shimming issue as much because of the KD SPF.... but the same principal applies.

Obviously there is not a distinct line as to degree of shimming (I guess we could say X # of paper shims or something), but a DC looks at what he's got a gives a bid premised on producing a satisfactory product.

When both a GC and a DC miss an obvious issue, I would think they both realized they had an oversight (f'up) and split it.

Best


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

fitful2u said:


> They found a large hump in the ceiling where my new board meets the existing drywall ceiling.


Where ever new meets old is the most likely place to have a problem. 9 times out of 10.

Whoever set the new trusses/joist is at fault. 8' straight edge or even a 6' level at time of setting would have caught this.

Every home,addition and remodel should always have the plane of walls and ceilings checked...............ALWAYS.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> *Kap, Ken , Ethan, A1.....*I think we're all sorta saying the same thing.... just with different fact situations... and maybe with regional customery differences.
> 
> If the DC walked, or speced out the job prior to exposure of the material framing issue... certainly he would not, IMO, be responsible for reframing issues or substantial furring out issues... however, he's wrong for a crew that has the attitude that there only job is no nail DW to existing studs, and try to go over a 3/4 lip.
> 
> ...


If I have a plumber who runs into a joist in a bathroom that disallows for proper access for a trap and he "works around the problem", it becomes his problem, because he saw it, didn't notify anyone (including the GC), worked around it, and passed it off as finished...

I see no difference with the D/C...

The GC (and HO for that matter) is PAYING the D/C for his expertise... what's more, this was a fairly simple fix...

If it was one of my subs, I would simply ask him "you didn't see this problem BEFORE you sheetrocked and THEN tried to spackle over it?"...

Your dime... call it a stupid tax...


----------



## fitful2u (Jan 22, 2013)

Wow. First I just want to thank everyone for their feedback. I really do appreciate it. After reading everyone's comment, the one thing that is clear is that this is not a cost to pass on to the client.

As, for whose to blame, I will take my share of reasponsiblity. The area was conceiled in a soffit that was removed. But the DC should have walked the job & noticed it & brought it to my attention (again it may have been something I too should have noticed on my own) But certainly the hanger must have noticed it. But did not tell his boss or me. That is ultimately where the fault lies. The problem is that's not my employee. Then we start getting in more gray area. The DC should be reasponsible for his own crew right? Here are some pictures of the area


----------



## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

How you handle it with the HO and how you and the D/C handle it with each other, will say a lot about how well suited you are to this business.

I'd apologize to the HO for wasting his time REdoing things that should have been done right to begin with, then have a sit down over a beer with the D/C and come to an agreement about who owes who how much.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

One thing about remodels, there are multiple chances to flag a problem. Sometimes you can see it when you look it over before doing your quote. A lot of times you'll find it during tear out - somebody did something funky to cover it up. Then there is the framing check before drywall, the hanging crew, and the tapers.

There are lots of eyes on it before it gets painted - that's part of the solution and part of the problem. Everyone may think it's how it's supposed to be because others have already seen it. The GC and the DC have to own catching these problems and getting it right. Make sure your tear out crew knows to look for odd stuff and bring it to your attention. You can also do a quick grazing light inspection when you go look it over to put a quote together it may or may not show, but you'll catch some obvious framing issues that may need shimming, etc.


----------



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

KAP said:


> Your dime... call it a stupid tax...


I agree to some extent but I wouldn't call it being stupid and not seeing it. It takes time to check an entire house to make sure it's ready for Sheetrock. Spotting problems while you are hanging the sheet rock isn't always easy. Especially if you are the guy hanging its really easy to miss something that's even half inch off. It makes it harder to see when you are right there next to it, a lot of times you don't see it until you stand back. It's much easier to do a walk through before you start hanging to spot these problems.

I call it a planning problem when this gets overlooked. Two questions the drywall guy should ask the GC before he even starts is:
#1 will you check your studs for straight and do your shim and shaving or do I have to do that?
#2 how are you drying out the building to prepare for hanging?

The second one is important around here because apparently it's not done everywhere. We had a builder from Arizona come up who had never heard of drying in a building. I guess they don't have to think about that down there. But around here it's a problem if you're screwing Sheetrock to wet studs. These are things the builder should be on top of anyway, sometimes they are not, that's why you should ask. 

Strictly speaking, the drywall guy doesn't have to ask him that if its not spelled out in the contract. Yeah it's something he should do but he doesn't have to. If I work as a sub I try to think of anything the GC might over look and bring it to his attention, but it doesn't mean I'm going to catch everything and it doesn't mean I'm financially liable for catching everything he overlooks. If something is overlooked due to inexperience, it falls on the GC, not on the subs.


----------



## Ancient Rocker (Jul 25, 2009)

We rockers are sometimes put in a precarious position in these situations because way too many subs are insulted to have their work being "criticized" by an unskilled drywall hanger. It has happened to me countless times about irregular framing, electricians not using enough staples, bath tubs not level ad nauseum. Some subs appreciate it, but I'm flabbergasted by how many times I've been told it will be fine.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Yup, messengers sometimes do get shot:sad:


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Blacktop.... I'm not sure what you meant.... but let me say the mexican crews around here would not have DW'd over that....
> 
> they would have said in broken English, we have a problem.... can you shave that, or we will have to substantially shim 5 joists back and extra time... and I would have made a decision and paid them for the extra work.
> 
> ...


 We don't use nails
What's a paper shim?:blink:



fitful2u said:


> Wow. First I just want to thank everyone for their feedback. I really do appreciate it. After reading everyone's comment, the one thing that is clear is that this is not a cost to pass on to the client.
> 
> As, for whose to blame, I will take my share of reasponsiblity. The area was conceiled in a soffit that was removed. But the DC should have walked the job & noticed it & brought it to my attention (again it may have been something I too should have noticed on my own) But certainly the hanger must have noticed it. But did not tell his boss or me. That is ultimately where the fault lies. The problem is that's not my employee. Then we start getting in more gray area. The DC should be reasponsible for his own crew right? Here are some pictures of the area
> 
> ...


The D/C should have caught that eye sore. I can only imagine what it looked like in person . That was an easy, on the spot fix would have taking no more than 10 min to scab it.


----------



## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

This is precisely why I think it's vital to use only the best subs. Any and all of my subs know what kind of job i want to deliver to my client. Any and all issues are brought to my attention. I would not be happy if my drywaller buried this issue and it would be on him to fix it.


----------



## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

Keep the dry wall guy happy, You will be calling on him soon!!


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Blacktop.... I'm not sure what you meant.... but let me say the mexican crews around here would not have DW'd over that....
> 
> they would have said in broken English, we have a problem.... can you shave that, or we will have to substantially shim 5 joists back and extra time... and I would have made a decision and paid them for the extra work.
> 
> ...





blacktop said:


> We don't use nails
> What's a paper shim?:blink:



Blackop... *It was meant as an honest question..... I guess you don't want to answere.*

(I don't happen to nail drywall either....but whether we nail or screw or glue has nothing to do with this thread issue.)

Is "paper shim" a regional/strange term... if so it's the standard 1.5 inch wide x 3ft cardboard shim you buy either by a 100 or 2000.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

blacktop said:


> So your frame is off by a 1/4 to 3/4 ??? Is that what your saying??
> Don't call me ! Call the Mexicans!


Blacktop.... We may be saying the same thing.... I just don't know whether you are saying you would ignore it as a DW'aller and callin a Mexican crew....

Guys.... I'm not afraid to say it, (and I dislike saying it), but quite honestly the mexican/south american subs I sometimes/often use do a very respectable job... quite often better/superior
than the american crew that is driving a 40K F250, about to be reposessed, and ready to file BK.

The truth is bitter sometimes....but I have some excellent subs that are not native american.

Have at me...


----------



## Ancient Rocker (Jul 25, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Blacktop.... We may be saying the same thing.... I just don't know whether you are saying you would ignore it as a DW'aller and callin a Mexican crew....
> 
> Guys.... I'm not afraid to say it, (and I dislike saying it), but quite honestly the mexican/south american subs I sometimes/often use do a very respectable job... quite often better/superior
> than the american crew that is driving a 40K F250, about to be reposessed, and ready to file BK.
> ...


It should not be too difficult to find "very respectable'. I set my standard Waaaaaaaaaaay above that.


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Blackop... *It was meant as an honest question..... I guess you don't want to answere.*
> 
> (I don't happen to nail drywall either....but whether we nail or screw or glue has nothing to do with this thread issue.)
> 
> Is "paper shim" a regional/strange term... if so it's the standard 1.5 inch wide x 3ft cardboard shim you buy either by a 100 or 2000.


I go well beyond the call of duty MTN. More than I should at times!
Most all my work is new homes . I sub out the hanging on the new construction . In fact you got me thinking today. The hangers start on a 1900 sft 2 story with garage tomorrow . I set up the scaffold in the foyer and garage this evening then gave the house a good walk through looking for areas that could use your paper shims...I will say a few pipe protectors could use a shim [maybe] I know the framer Iv'e worked behind him since we were kids . He's always within 1/6 on his frame .. I'll make a vid of the home tomorrow If you like . I'll be honest about it, with close ups of the joist hangers /protectors ..etc. I don't mind:thumbsup: ...Be glad to do It just to hear your input @ opinions 

'Most' of the renos /additions/basements I hang myself. I feel these jobs need a Hanger/finisher . 

BTW.....Don't ever call me Sir!!!:no:


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Blacktop.... We may be saying the same thing.... I just don't know whether you are saying you would ignore it as a DW'aller and callin a Mexican crew....
> 
> Guys.... I'm not afraid to say it, (and I dislike saying it), but quite honestly the mexican/south american subs I sometimes/often use do a very respectable job... quite often better/superior
> than the american crew that is driving a 40K F250, about to be reposessed, and ready to file BK.
> ...


01 silverado 200 k miles. I could sub out to cheaper / faster hangers and make more money!!!!!!!! But I won't!:no:


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

blacktop said:


> I go well beyond the call of duty MTN. More than I should at times!
> Most all my work is new homes . I sub out the hanging on the new construction . In fact you got me thinking today. The hangers start on a 1900 sft 2 story with garage tomorrow . I set up the scaffold in the foyer and garage this evening then gave the house a good walk through looking for areas that could use your paper shims...I will say a few pipe protectors could use a shim [maybe] I know the framer Iv'e worked behind him since we were kids . He's always within 1/6 on his frame .. I'll make a vid of the home tomorrow If you like . I'll be honest about it, with close ups of the joist hangers /protectors ..etc. I don't mind:thumbsup: ...Be glad to do It just to hear your input @ opinions
> 
> 'Most' of the renos /additions/basements I hang myself. I feel these jobs need a Hanger/finisher .
> ...


Bubbi....(Hope you understand that's a southern compliment) We are saying the samething.... I agree... just typo communications issues:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Best Peter


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Ancient Rocker said:


> It should not be too difficult to find "very respectable'. I set my standard Waaaaaaaaaaay above that.


Ancient.... I respect your attitude.... you probably just do very high end.... I don't and am just being honest...

"Very respectable" to me means comprable to a CO 500 to 1 M type home, a Cali 1 to 2 M type home. an Iowa (don't really know that market) maybe a 300-600K home.

I'm glad your standards are Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond that, and I/m sure you do not build to lesser properties. Some of us do.


----------



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Bubbi....(Hope you understand that's a southern compliment) We are saying the samething.... I agree... just typo communications issues:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> Best Peter


It's Bubbah. :laughing:


----------



## Ancient Rocker (Jul 25, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Ancient.... I respect your attitude.... you probably just do very high end.... I don't and am just being honest...
> 
> "Very respectable" to me means comprable to a CO 500 to 1 M type home, a Cali 1 to 2 M type home. an Iowa (don't really know that market) maybe a 300-600K home.
> 
> I'm glad your standards are Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond that, and I/m sure you do not build to lesser properties. Some of us do.


I expect a drywall job to be the same no matter what kind of price the house is. I usually do small jobs now, but I have never hung for high end contractors.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Ancient Rocker said:


> I expect a drywall job to be the same no matter what kind of price the house is. I usually do small jobs now, but I have never hung for high end contractors.


Ancient.... Again I do respect your attitude and attention to quality.... 

"Very respectable" to me means apropriate to the property/job....

I guess I do recognize varience in quality (for my customers/myself)...

I honestly don't expect the same quality work (AND COST) for instance in a garage that's getting firetaped verse a LR vaultceiling with extensive view windows that's going to show any wave....

..... the same degree of perfection for corners in a clothes closet that's getting shelving say verse the ridge lines of an inverted hip in a first floor kitchen....

.... an expanse of show wall in a custom that's going to be untextured verse a ceiling in a $800/month rental that's going to be popcorned...

Seems to me that's really what a customer wants.... although not to say some customers may require a 3 coat fully finished quality garage...

Best.......

Peter


----------

