# Client adding small jobs



## cdturner8725 (Aug 14, 2015)

I'm very new to contracting and only do small maintenance and repair. Lately I have been busy with make readies in a college town and have been stressing out. Now, my biggest client is starting to take advantage of me a bit by adding "small" stuff and expecting no additional charge because its "small". Overall it's not really a big deal and I go the extra mile regularly to make myself stand out but that's on my own terms.

How do I politely let them know this isn't okay? How do I avoid this problem in the future?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Just have to say it matter of factly, OK I can do that it will be x more dollars. Doing extras is cool if the relationship is reciprocal and no one takes advantage of good will. Unfortunately it doesn't usually work out that way. Good luck.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

You should have a contract for each job, even if it nothing more than a repair order.

This document will list the physical address, SOW, charges & terms.

There should be a clause that states something to the effect of:

Any work requested that is not noted in the SOW will incur an additional charge. 

Use the KISS principle....


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

A clip-board of change sheets is a good way to keep it simple and un-emotional. If the customer complains that you're nickel-and-diming them, suggest that the collect a bunch of changes together so that you can schedule better and give them a good price.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

Write out the change order(s) and list what will be involved, this should show how much is involved in even the smallest of projects, come up with a price for the clearly defined scope of work and have the client sign off on it or them.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Are you charging a flat rate for the apartments?


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Here's what will happen...work you aren't being paid for will keep you from completing work you need to get paid for....plus,they 'll expect to warrant the freebies too. Reign it in nicely, but fast.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

* The owner can make additions, deletions or revisions to the original scope of work. Once the owner decides to make a change, the builder produces a change order showing the additional cost or credit for the change. The change order is approved by the owner before the builder proceeds with the change order work. 

* Change order amounts are due immediately, upon signed acceptance of change order by owner.

Might want to change the lingo, but that is decent basic wording to put in a basic agreement regarding change orders.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

That's exactly right. Free doesn't pay...and what's happening here is likely to end up being a mess....I've been down this road....doing a little more than paid for is good business, but needs to be at your discretion.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

What the others said, keep blank change orders with you at all times. If it's something you can quote at a flat rate then write it and collect a check BEFORE you start the change. If it needs to be time and materials, then best to write it that way and bring the hourly rate to their attention the first time.

We collect for change orders up front because it delays the collection of the next progress payment. It's not underhanded. I'm actually 2 months behind on collecting the final payment for a job because I let the customer get too crazy with change orders. It's 5k or so. It's not a big deal because I have collected on those change orders as they happen. If I hadn't then I'd be out 5k plus another 8k on those change orders. THAT would be a big deal!


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

That boys, is both how and why its done. Cash flow problems are just a professional way of saying you are running out of money. 
Everyone needs to follow what Ethan just said and understand why he did it.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Umm. After Andy's comment I feel like I should say that cash flow is still my largest challenge as a business owner. I had just had three jobs finish within a week of each other(big no-no) and had fallen behind on billing as we were grinding out all that work.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

You have to talk to him in a language he will understand. 

Simply ask: Should I just start biding these jobs, with some fluff for when you have these add on's you don't want me to charge for? 

Say it like you mean it. Then pause for 2 seconds. Then smile. Then move on.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Did they actually tell you they expect them to be done at no charge? When they asked for them to be done is when you tell them it's an additional charge not wait till after the fact.

My customers are grown ups they don't expect free work.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Frank s got some experience for sure. I 've been there too Ethan, shoot, I stay in that shape half the time. Any contractor who says they don't struggle with money in my opinion is usually a liar, or doesn't have any to struggle with. Its a tough game, between customers,workers and suppliers out here. You guys keep fighting the good fight and doing good....really makes me proud to see guys that know how to operate.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

You need to have a talk with your client, without communication the relationship is doomed. I give out 10 percent of an annual contract in freebies every year, and my clients know it and love me for it because I still give them invoices for $0. You want their loyalty, so when some A-hole hack tries to lowball you they laugh in his face and send him on his way, because they know they won't be getting freebies from him! Most of the time the freebies are less than 10 minutes work anyways.

I just have a quick conversation with my clients if they try to start adding small crap. i let it accumulate, then finally I tell them "Hey man, all this little stuff is starting to add up. I don't mind scratching your back and going that extra mile, but that mile is turning into a marathon. Here's what I am willing to do though..." and just go from there. Alot of times, people just don't realize how much the little stuff adds up. And you will be surprised when you bring this to their attention. You are going to find out what type of client they are when you have this talk.

Now, yes alot of member here will balk at 10 percent just tossed out the window. But it's factored in from the day I give the flat rate bid for an apartment complex. 

Either way, you need to just have this talk (as uncomfortable as it may be) with your client and air it out. Good luck my man!!


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

We have all been down that road. Even after years in the biz I hang myself every once in a while.

You never want to hear your self say " Hey, no problem, I'll just roll a little paint before we do that. That little paint is probably 3 long days work. In the end I don't mind, but you need to keep those deals to a minimum. I actually would rather do something like that at my discretion than have a customer keep expecting tid bits.

You will always be chasing the big money as it will always be on the other side of the small things.

The other thing you can do is let them know you are more than willing to do a day or so of customer satisfaction freebies once the main job is completed and closed out.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Worst case is you can set it up so any change to the SOW is a new contract. You have to be paid up for everything you've done and close out the old contract before the new contract is signed and work rescheduled. That's an ahole approach, but it can make some sense at times. You risk losing the customer because you're difficult to do business with.


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## hrdwrkr (Aug 11, 2015)

ive run into the same situation acouple of times..it was a big basement remodel..then the homeowner started the 'since your here' routine..at first i didnt mind.. a tp holder here a patch in the ceiling there...but then it started to add up...long story short when i was 'confronted' by the man of the house "i cant believe your charging me for this little stuff" I rebuttled with " listen , I dont go to your place of business and ask for freebies.....hes a lawyer


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Well said. One of the tricky things is how subtle it can happen.


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## bernie (Aug 1, 2005)

AGullion said:


> Here's what will happen...work you aren't being paid for will keep you from completing work you need to get paid for....plus,they 'll expect to warrant the freebies too. Reign it in nicely, but fast.


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Agree with this 100%. 
They will keep adding small stuff as long as you are willing to do it for free. When you do "change order" forms ... and show a charge, they will knock it off.

Bernie


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

I'm rereading Micheal stone's "markup and profit" and just hit the section where he talks about this. Love his answer. When the customer asks you to look at some little thing just say "sure thing! Let me grab my estimating sheet and a change order first!"
Says it in a way that's polite but firm and hard to argue with.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

That's a great book, it points out it is mostly our own behavior that makes or breaks us


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

cdturner8725 said:


> I'm very new to contracting and only do small maintenance and repair. Lately I have been busy with make readies in a college town and have been stressing out. Now, my biggest client is starting to take advantage of me a bit by adding "small" stuff and expecting no additional charge because its "small". Overall it's not really a big deal and I go the extra mile regularly to make myself stand out but that's on my own terms.
> 
> How do I politely let them know this isn't okay? How do I avoid this problem in the future?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


The ole ...Oh while your here !!! I love those!
:laughing:


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## BRShomerepair (Jun 28, 2015)

I've been there before, and had to have that talk. As other have said, the more you can communicate this stuff in a professional, non emotional manner, the easier it is.

I had that happen a couple months ago, had a guy hire me for some aspects of his condo reno. Before long the little stuff he was asking for was turning into hours (on a three day quoted job). So I just told him, hey ***x, this extras weren't in the scope of work I gave that quote for. I am happy to do it for you right now while my table saw and tools are all set up, but it's going to be at this much per hour over the original quote.

He was fine with that, as most people are reasonable I find. But somehow they just "forget" to offer you more $, or ask how much more $ it would be to take care of the other stuff while you are there. 

One thing that really helped me was understanding that I am in business to make a profit, and to pay attention to how much profit I am making on every job, and make sure as best I can to be making a profit. So as soon as you think you may be losing even a small amount of $, time to have that conversation, and put into writing what you need to. There is a balance between doing a little extra to get referrals (like ten minutes), and not making what you deserve on a job because the client took advantage of your generosity.

That same guy called me today actually for more work to be done, so don't be afraid to speak up for what you deserve.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

One sub told me one time ..."hey man , I'm as honest as the day is long....but if its more work...its more money !".


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

"My Biggest client...." You've become a 1o99 employee with zero benefits and now you are giving kickbacks to keep your paying work?

That is insane, Get more customers, so you can walk away smiling.
Don't become a one customer business, they'll take advantage every time they can.

Tell mr. Piggy that your bookkeeper/insurer requires you use the new forms with add-ons /change orders, or bill T&M instead. 

Come work for me for full time with part time pay and no benefits.:whistling


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

blacktop said:


> The ole ...Oh while your here !!! I love those!
> :laughing:


Reminds me of a line I heard somewhere. What are the four most expensive words in remodeling: "While we're at it". :laughing:


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Pinwheel said this " If you have the money, I have the time."

One of my favorite quotes.


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## TylerThePainter (Mar 26, 2015)

cdturner8725 said:


> I'm very new to contracting and only do small maintenance and repair. Lately I have been busy with make readies in a college town and have been stressing out. Now, my biggest client is starting to take advantage of me a bit by adding "small" stuff and expecting no additional charge because its "small". Overall it's not really a big deal and I go the extra mile regularly to make myself stand out but that's on my own terms.
> 
> How do I politely let them know this isn't okay? How do I avoid this problem in the future?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


That's the hard part of working for your self.

telling people "NO!"

The best way to do this is just say "Yes, I can do that for you, but it will be an additional $***.XX."

Don't let anybody push you around. You give them an inch they will take a mile.


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## TylerThePainter (Mar 26, 2015)

mikeswoods said:


> Pinwheel said this " If you have the money, I have the time."
> 
> One of my favorite quotes.


Exactly, nothing for free!

You can't go into home depot and say "ok well i bought a circular saw... can I have the blades for free? Oh yeah, I also need safety glass's, some wood, gloves, and pencils for free, thanks."

The clients are paying for your TIME... thus if you deliver 'small' extra's for no additional fees then your giving away your service for free.

Its your clients way of trying to STEAL from you. Don't let him get away with this. Hes trying to walk all over you...

This isn't a charity. You need to pay your bills... "That will be an extra $100.00"


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## TylerThePainter (Mar 26, 2015)

EthanB said:


> What the others said, keep blank change orders with you at all times. If it's something you can quote at a flat rate then write it and collect a check BEFORE you start the change. If it needs to be time and materials, then best to write it that way and bring the hourly rate to their attention the first time.
> 
> We collect for change orders up front because it delays the collection of the next progress payment. It's not underhanded. I'm actually 2 months behind on collecting the final payment for a job because I let the customer get too crazy with change orders. It's 5k or so. It's not a big deal because I have collected on those change orders as they happen. If I hadn't then I'd be out 5k plus another 8k on those change orders. THAT would be a big deal!


Did you complete the job already?...

If so you should collect your money pronto. 
I require all payments be made immediately on the completion of work.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Here's what I tell people...we are done, grab your contract and tell the check # and I ll mark it paid in full and note the check # on the invoice.


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