# Trough drain as a barrier free shower?



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Is it possible to use one of those trough drains to make a barrier free shower if you put it in the entrance to the shower and sloped the shower from back to front so it was high in the back and sloped down to the drain at the threshold?

Anybody done this?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Absolutely!

Although not sure about an inspector's view.

Also, I'd waterproof the entire floor too.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The general concept has been used for centuries in Europe and Asia because of the basic type of traditional (concrete) construction. - These are generally referred to as "wet rooms" and are bathrooms and kitchens where water is present in wide amounts because the clean-up, a sanitation is much easier.

Usually, they have sloped floors with center drains and some have troughs at entrances or to separate areas of high water use. - In India, it is common to see apartments built with 2 waste water systems (gray, which is sinks, showers, etc and for water conservation/watering gardens and separate"black" system destined for transport to the treatment system). It raises the cost, but makes sense depending on the labor rates and ecological situation. In China, I saw an $8000 Japanese automatic (go, wet, wash, rub and dry) toilet that had a valve that directed the discharge into different discharge systems.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Why not put the trough in the back against the wall?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

angus242 said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> Although not sure about an inspector's view.
> 
> Also, I'd waterproof the entire floor too.


Yeah, I'm wondering how the inspector would feel about it since it violates code, probably have to give him a call.

I wouldn't waterproof the entire floor, that would not be in the budget and I'm not interested in a wet room design. Probably water proof a foot or so outside the threshold though.



concretemasonry said:


> The general concept has been used for centuries in Europe and Asia because of the basic type of traditional (concrete) construction. - These are generally referred to as "wet rooms" and are bathrooms and kitchens where water is present in wide amounts because the clean-up, a sanitation is much easier.
> 
> Usually, they have sloped floors with center drains and some have troughs at entrances or to separate areas of high water use. - In India, it is common to see apartments built with 2 waste water systems (gray, which is sinks, showers, etc and for water conservation/watering gardens and separate"black" system destined for transport to the treatment system). It raises the cost, but makes sense depending on the labor rates and ecological situation. In China, I saw an $8000 Japanese automatic (go, wet, wash, rub and dry) toilet that had a valve that directed the discharge into different discharge systems.


Not interested in doing a whole wet room. Just considering a cost effective method of getting a zero threshold for the shower for a wheel chair to role in without cutting down joists to lower the floor in the shower.



Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> Why not put the trough in the back against the wall?


That would mean having to cut joists to lower the floor in the rear of the shower to lower the floor to the drain to get the slope.

The idea of the trough drain at the front is you can raise the floor to the rear. Much easier, cheaper, and possible versus not possible.

Has anybody actually done one? I admit it does give me a bit of a reservation when you're basically designing a shower to empty out into the rest of the room.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Yeah, I'm wondering how the inspector would feel about it since it violates code, probably have to give him a call.
> 
> I wouldn't waterproof the entire floor, that would not be in the budget and I'm not interested in a wet room design. Probably water proof a foot or so outside the threshold though.


Can't upgrade to some Ditra for the floor? How about a bucket of Hydro Ban? Come on, Mike. _You _can sell the upgrade!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

You're right, a simple install of ditra would be a compromise to partially water proof the area. 

I was thinking more grandly in regard to really waterproofing the room. (you know, like for a total failure of this thing where the water is running all over the floor and as soon as it hits the walls, if you haven't made this a wet room, the water is going to do damage once it runs off the ditra at the edges.

Good suggestion on the ditra it would be a cost effective way to gain some partial water proofing.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Mike,

If you take it one little step further, a $40 roll of Kerdi-Band does give you 2" of waterproofing around the perimeter (& Ditra seams). Then the only area of suspect is the door out of the bathroom. 

That would be a truly 100% waterproofed floor.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

You're right again on that, but once the water hits a doorway you're toast. (I attached the layout.)

Still wouldn't hurt to kerdi band along walls up to door ways, every little bit helps, but in this case the master closet is right next to the shower.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Yeah, that's a very tough call. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable putting the drain in that location with the closet so close unless you tiled the closet too. 

Hey, upgrade to heated tile closet flooring.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Mike, I think you'll be fine. Are you going to do the whole main floor with Ditra? maybe make it so the closet area under the ditra is slightly higher. If tiled correctly and sloped you'll be fine. The water is going to drain out fast into that trough drain. a lot more grate area than a simple 4" round drain most showers do and they don't backup unless there is a clog. If this trough backs up, they have other issues and I'm sure the would stop using the shower before it filled the room and overflowed out the door.

Ask Whipple. I think he's done a few of these or at least researched it. 

I still say go for it and take pics!


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## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

Would it be possible to build the shower with a regular center drain pitched as usual and then having the trough just being a barrier?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

ApgarNJ said:


> Mike, I think you'll be fine. Are you going to do the whole main floor with Ditra? maybe make it so the closet area under the ditra is slightly higher. If tiled correctly and sloped you'll be fine. The water is going to drain out fast into that trough drain. a lot more grate area than a simple 4" round drain most showers do and they don't backup unless there is a clog. If this trough backs up, they have other issues and I'm sure the would stop using the shower before it filled the room and overflowed out the door.
> 
> Ask Whipple. I think he's done a few of these or at least researched it.
> 
> I still say go for it and take pics!


The closet is existing hardwood flooring, no changes there. Just dealing with the MB.




bhock said:


> Would it be possible to build the shower with a regular center drain pitched as usual and then having the trough just being a barrier?


To do that you'd have to build the shower as usual which makes the permiter all around the highest point, all sloping to the center drain, this would not allow for a roll in at the door way.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Mike,I think that the door drain will be fine. A while back(6 months?) there was a handicap bath post showing that exact set-up.

I tried to sell that on a big barrier free shower that I finished a couple of months ago---$700+ for the drain was not in the budget--or needed as the bath was on a slab and the floor was getting cut up any way for drains.

I think that drain looks like a great money saver for the situation that you are in.(nice slick look,too)

Do take Angus's suggestion about HydroBan or Ditra---If the user is in a wheel chair the floor will get wet--

I did that bath floor with HydroBan just for grins. Also added a floor drain a couple of feet outside of the shower.

I'm hoping to get a few more handicap jobs from that bath.----Mike---


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## jhammer7 (Nov 19, 2009)

*shower room*

I remodeled and re-tiled a 8x9' shower room last summer with a similar set up. 

There was already a large 1"1/2" threshold into the room that served as the curb. The shower was in a corner with a 4x4' schluter pan and the rest of the room had a small pitch toward the drain area. Additional ditra, kerdi and a small mosaic in the middle allowed drainage to the primary drain area. 

I'll try to find some pics.

J


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Mike, you can leave the closet alone, and still try and slope the tile ever so slightly upwards so if any water did drip outside the drain it wouldn't run towards the closet/wood.

I'd ditra the whole floor and like angus said, kerdi band the perimeter.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Mike, have you seen Delta's zero threshold shower bases?

http://www.deltafaucet.com/landing/zerothreshold.html


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

*Channel Drain at entry*

Hi Mike.

Don't know how I missed your posts and pictures here. Your layout is ideal for a curbless shower and channel drain shown as drawn.

Which way do your floor joists run? Can you over lay that and spec the waste and vent locations?

An even safer option would be to install a 5' channel or 2 smaller ones end to end on the opposite wall. I have flood tested Kerdi into a standard drain and my testing with Kerdi Fix and others these tie in's are rock solid.

The entire room will need to be waterproofed with an entry drain and if you can get the finished grill level with the underside of your subfloor. With 1/2" ply, cable heat, grade, Ditra and Kerdi (or equivalent) in the wet-zones you will built up your grade. I like to level it out at 2" - 2 1/4". 

Take care around your Water Closet flange and set this trough a Kerdi sheet with some Kerdi fix. On two of my projects we chose a wall mount to take it right out of the picture.

If you plan to add a door remember to record the height needed to remove the drain grill for cleaning. 

In all of my projects I have had to mill a custom transition between 1/2" and 1 1/4" to achieve this look. With more fore thought in framing members and beam sizes & locations these looks can be seamless. In the renovation end it's give and take. All my clients love their barrier free spaces and the design suits both traditional and contemporary looks. If you can install a second fail safe drain under the vanity this would give everyone a little extra piece of mind. This is code it seams in Australia and many European cities. I plan to alter my own en-suite to include this second drain and will do so on my own accord as my inspector did not require it and has passed my rough in to date.

Good Luck.

Let me know if you need anything else. I have close up pictures of all four tops drains right now. Call me anytime (604) 506 - 6792

Good Luck.

Can't wait to see the finished job. All your projects are so polished...


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

*French Drain*

You can install a french drain with a grate over it. If that's what you mean to a "trough" similar to what plumbers install afront of garage doors to prevent water from entering towards the inside.

You'll have to remove subfloor, and do a bit of plumb work. There may be an inspector needed to check out any joists that need cutting into (if necessary).


Or, you can mud the entire bathroom floor and find a suitable place to drain water. You'll probably have to do a bit of door shaving and make a custom threshold sloped to adjacent floor covering. May be a great upsell opportunity as well. :thumbsup: ("We can even continue with tile in here. Do you like this tile in here too, or should we look at some other designs fo this area?")

Or, you can install a glass enclosure which is watertite at the base with a collapsable rubber dam at the shower door opening.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

*One concept for your shower.*

Mike here is one concept.

How wide is the shower?


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