# Masonry chimney on new EPA fireplace?



## GregWCIL (Apr 1, 2008)

On new construction, the fireplace dealer quoted dual-wall stainless chimney at an outrageous price. The fireplace is setting on concrete supported down to the footings and will have a real stone exterior all the way up. My stone mason subcontractor suggested he install a clay tile chimney instead of the stainless? I think it would be cheaper.

This is an EPA certified low-emission fireplace which may have higher combustion temps than a masonry fireplace. Does that affect the chimney material choice?

Thanks,
Greg


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## Hearthman (Oct 28, 2008)

*factory chimneys*

You cannot modify listed fireplaces, chimneys or terminations. You can install a listed EPA certfied fireplace/ stove hybrid and use a copper version of a clay pot that is tested and listed for that particular model fireplace if it is one of the HHT models such as the Quadrafire 7100i, Heatilator Constitution or Heat & Glo Northstar. They are all essentially the same fireplace all built at the Quad plant in Colleville, Wa, with separate branding of these HHT brands. Therefore, all three have been tested and listed for use with their specific copper pots that look identical to some on the web but in fact have specific internal differences. This maintains the warranty and listing. 

If you put a clay pot over any air cooled chimney, you defeat the primary cooling system and will burn the house down. If you try to install a terra cotta clay flue lining, you will burn the house down. 

Factory built fireplaces use very specific chimneys that are tested and listed for use with that model Fp. They have specific starter collars where it attaches to the Fp and specific termination caps. You cannot modify any of these. 

FYI, terra cotta is an obscolete building material that should be banned. It is rarely if ever properly installed and even so, it fails miserably, which is why the codes require cleanouts---planned failure. Under ASTM C-315, there is no temperature testing for flue tile---none! That's because they know it will fail. Compare that to a listed stainless steel chimney that has passed three chimney fire conditions of either 1,700F for regular fireplaces or 2,100F for woodstoves and EPA fireplaces.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Hearthman said:


> You cannot modify listed fireplaces, chimneys or terminations. You can install a listed EPA certfied fireplace/ stove hybrid and use a copper version of a clay pot that is tested and listed for that particular model fireplace if it is one of the HHT models such as the Quadrafire 7100i, Heatilator Constitution or Heat & Glo Northstar. They are all essentially the same fireplace all built at the Quad plant in Colleville, Wa, with separate branding of these HHT brands. Therefore, all three have been tested and listed for use with their specific copper pots that look identical to some on the web but in fact have specific internal differences. This maintains the warranty and listing.
> 
> If you put a clay pot over any air cooled chimney, you defeat the primary cooling system and will burn the house down. If you try to install a terra cotta clay flue lining, you will burn the house down.
> 
> ...



That's awesome Hearthman, I think you're going to become very popular around here.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Not with me. You can keep your crappy metal fireboxes that MIGHT last 20 years. I will stick with 100% masonry ones, since I have seen 200 + year old ones (and read of 400 year old ones) that have been used constantly for the entire period with no more maintenance than a cleaning every couple of years.


It is much easier to screw up a techno fireplace install and burn down the house than it is with a masonry one, and if constructed properly for heat, the masonry box is as good or better than the metal one.

Kind of like the difference between synthetic stucco and cementious.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

(But I agree with him about mixing the systems. No Bueno por nada, that.)


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Aw Jeez, I went and looked at the models he listed. I was wrong. I thought he was talking about something else entirely. He is talking about zero clearance boxes with refactory panels, i.e. Walmart fireplaces.

You may as well get one of those "fireplaces" with a holographic flame and turn up the central heat.


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

What kind of pipe did they quote and what was the price?

Was it the SL300 air cooled pipe or the DuraPlus.

How much pipe do you need?

I know the Duraplus pipe is more money, but I don't think it could be more expensive than a masonry chimney.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

The flue itself is more expensive per LnFt, but the required wrap and labor is much less. If you want a cheap fireplace stick with the zero clearance, but please be sure and install it exactly as per installation instructions, with no substitutions or deviations.


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## GregWCIL (Apr 1, 2008)

*Thanks for the information*

Thank you all for the information--especially Hearthman. 

The pipe specified is ICC brand, Excell model, 7 in. dual-wall, insulated pipe--not air-cooled. It is specifically specified for the RSF brand fireplace.

Part of the reason I asked about a masonry option is that there will be a cement block chase all the way up to support stone veneer above the roof line. 

Also, homeowner wants to explore possibility of adding a masonry fireplace on the back side of the ICF wall where this RSF fireplace sits.
The wall in question is an exterior wall. 

One fireplace would be for inside the house in the winter. The other would face an exterior concrete deck and be for spring/summer/fall use. They would be separate but the two chimneys would share the same stone-faced chase. (Clear as mud?)

Thanks again. We will definitely stay with the stainless pipe for the first unit. 

Greg


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