# KERDI BOARD loookkkk



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

you do tile Angus? huh... learn something new everyday here :drink:


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## Aaron Tritt (Feb 4, 2011)

I am flying out to Schluter tomorrow. Hope to learn a some stuff. I am mostly interested in their ideas about the kerdi board that can be curved for round tile applications (columns, wave face tub decks, etc.) 

I haven't used the Kerdi board as of yet, but Custom made a foam board that was awesome to work with. It saved my time, lungs, and effort for an additional cost of only $.15/ft! Easily saved with cost of labor.


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

Aaron Tritt said:


> I am flying out to Schluter tomorrow. Hope to learn a some stuff. I am mostly interested in their ideas about the kerdi board that can be curved for round tile applications (columns, wave face tub decks, etc.)
> 
> I haven't used the Kerdi board as of yet, but Custom made a foam board that was awesome to work with. It saved my time, lungs, and effort for an additional cost of only $.15/ft! Easily saved with cost of labor.


Ya, I tell you what it's so nice not breathing that hardibacker dust anymore! That chit would stay in my lungs and I'd be hacking all the time! I'd say it's worth it's weight in gold, but it costs more than that!


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Running over Kerdi Board.
> 
> What happens when you run over 1/2" cement board and Hydro Ban?
> 
> ...


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

Tried the Kerdi board today.......I really do not like it. Wedi IMO is a much better product. It was really flimsy stuff and I hate using un-modified thin set. Dries up quicker and tile doesn't stay in place as well. And on top of that it was $73 bucks more for a tub surround. $233 for 80 sqft. 

It's a bad pic.....but the one thing I did get from it was, I plan to use the seam tape around windows from now on. ( a better way than smearing the caulk all around it.)


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Haven't used the Kerdi board yet, but I have used the Wedi system and I like it a lot. That said, it is pretty expensive, and it can sometimes be hard to justify the cost of it on certain systems.

I use Wedi exclusively for tiled shower pan systems, and for that it is wonderful. I typically only go up a foot however so that I have a good seal around the base of the shower pan, and then I transition to Denshield after that and seal my seam like I would from one Wedi panel to another. For a tub surround like that, I'd just go with Denshield and 100% silicone to seal seams and screwheads or a urethane sealant like SikaFlex 220. 5 sheets of Denshield: $55. 2 Tubes of Sika / Silicone: $15. It's every bit as effective at waterproofing as either of the foam boards, and the only downside is it's heavier. The way I see it, that's quite a bit less than a full Wedi system easily, and when you're doing 20-30 bathrooms a year, it adds up.

By the way, the 2" Wedi board for shower seats is pretty sweet as well. Just make side and back supports that go to the pan, and glue it all together.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

WHATS WITH THE DOG PROFILE PICS... :rolleyes
HAHAHA!


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

Remodelor said:


> Haven't used the Kerdi board yet, but I have used the Wedi system and I like it a lot. That said, it is pretty expensive, and it can sometimes be hard to justify the cost of it on certain systems.
> 
> I use Wedi exclusively for tiled shower pan systems, and for that it is wonderful. I typically only go up a foot however so that I have a good seal around the base of the shower pan, and then I transition to Denshield after that and seal my seam like I would from one Wedi panel to another. For a tub surround like that, I'd just go with Denshield and 100% silicone to seal seams and screwheads or a urethane sealant like SikaFlex 220. 5 sheets of Denshield: $55. 2 Tubes of Sika / Silicone: $15. It's every bit as effective at waterproofing as either of the foam boards, and the only downside is it's heavier. The way I see it, that's quite a bit less than a full Wedi system easily, and when you're doing 20-30 bathrooms a year, it adds up.
> 
> By the way, the 2" Wedi board for shower seats is pretty sweet as well. Just make side and back supports that go to the pan, and glue it all together.


Were do you even get den shield? I keep hearing about that stuff. I do think for a Tub surround wedi or Kerdi board is a little overkill. I do a lot of recessed niches though, an just think that's the best way to go.
I usually am the highest bidder because of that though. And the price seems to go up every time I get it


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

srwcontracting said:


> Were do you even get den shield? I keep hearing about that stuff. I do think for a Tub surround wedi or Kerdi board is a little overkill. I do a lot of recessed niches though, an just think that's the best way to go.
> I usually am the highest bidder because of that though. And the price seems to go up every time I get it


Call your local tile suppliers. Someone will likely carry it. Here in KC, you usually have to be a contractor with an account at a supplier to get your hands on it. It's basically sheetrock imbued with fiberglass and coated with a waterproof layer on one side. They sell it in 1/2"x5'x4' for walls, and 1/4"x4'x4' for flooring. If you put in on the floor, you are supposed to thinset it down and screw or use roofing nails every 6". I like it because it has the same waterproofing qualities of foam board, cuts like sheetrock and is very cost effective. Usually goes anywhere from $10-$15 a sheet. 

It also does work well for niches, but you have to work your sealant on the cut edge to kind of remove the loose gypsum dust. If you can get a solid layer of sealant from one coated edge to another, you should be good.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

they got denshield at every box store around here for miles.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

*Denshield and Liquid*

Denshield Tub Surounds are quite common here as well. A few builders I work for swear by it. Some Denshield and some liquid and your good to go for most tub surround projects.

Try out the Green EBoard if you get a chance.

When you find you can score and snap with a simple straight razor and it is as solid as cement board you will be hooked.

Fire Rated.

Eco Friendly.

Low defelection between studs.

It seems rare these days we even get to make the choice - often that choice is all ready made by the builder.

JW


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Did you guys see this Kerdi Board install in a commercial steam shower.

Turns out it was an installer error (if you believe the second hand report from John Bridge). And that the Kerdi Board was installed to close to steam line (the back side of the Kerdi Board). It is impressive that Schluter is onsite helping this guy out (again if you believe second hand reports). 

I bet the fix is something like this. 

Remove Kerdi Board.
Install Cement Board.
Install Kerdi.
Tile.

I bet the fact that he could carry 10 sheets of backer board at a time is not looking like such a good idea right now. Gives you that warm fuzzy feeling, eh boys? I wonder why the TTMAC specifies cement board for steam showers.

Maybe the installer should have used blue drywall and then Kerdi. I bet that is a better system that this new foam board.... Not that that is approved system either.

Steam Pipes can be wrapped with a high heat insulation - perhaps this step would have prevented that failed Kerdi Board steam shower renovation.



http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=100497


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I agree with what the others said. Seam pipe was essentially on the corner and therefor the affected/melted area essentially took a heat bath for who knows how many hours a day. Who ever designed that shower was a moron. Spec foam then point steam right at it.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I agree with what the others said. Seam pipe was essentially on the corner and therefor the affected/melted area essentially took a heat bath for who knows how many hours a day. Who ever designed that shower was a moron. Spec foam then point steam right at it.


But really Kerdi Board is suppose to handle steam showers. In a commercial steam unit in Germany I believe the Perm requirements are 0.10. What is the Perm rating on Kerdi Board? 0.75 or 0.50??? Noble Seal TS is 0.05.

I wonder if the Kerdi Board was wicking water from the back side? There was some input as to the board going overtop of a cement wall. Perhaps the issue was condesensation in this thermal void that lead to the destruction of the backside?

You can see how much the installer trusted the Kerdi Board to begin with. A little Aqua D to help things out. I hope the setter doesn't loose his shirt on this project.

I wonder if anyone read the instructions that came with the steam unit?

JW


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

The perm rating does not do anything for how much heat it takes to melt the board.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

The wedi tech that comes out to me was telling me that the kerdi board has a layer of paper at a certain point in the construction that make it susceptible to mold. I didnt pay much attention to the other bad points he said about the kerdi board but the wedi system for me has been fantastic. It ain't cheap but it goes it so quick and is so strong. The sealant they supply has also got to be the best I have ever used.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Lets accept this as fact - since we are really just reviewing their thread. Look at the damage to the left of the steam line. That board is not melted it is saturated with water and the MDF (special reinforcing layer) is separating.










Once wet you can peel the MDF right off the foam.

I made some test boats from them. They leaked.



















This testing is a good year old and right after the Kerdi Board came out. I find it odd that asked "How old the board was?" I wonder why he is asking this. Paul had some issues back when he promoted is Kerdi Niche method.

Look at the testing that follows this post. Little boats like I made showing that some orange cloth and MDF is waterproof. The funny thing is these men show controlled tests. Had any of them used even a hint of thinset on that board it would have wicked up and then failed.

The Kerdi Board is waterproof I think from the glue. Once any water hits it the mdf becomes one giant wick for water to migrate.

So again looking at the damage. How could the steam line melt Kerdi Board that far away. There is no way, and I'm sure this is not the first and last picture we see just like this one.

JW


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Here is some new pictures from Utah. Rod is a master setter and very familar with the proper use of Kerdi Board. He is finding that the MDF layer is separating from the foam....

I'd have to say this board needs some new designing. 

Perhaps they can remove the paper and orange cloth and replace it with Kerdi. Then change out the foam and replace that with cement board. :laughing:

What a concept. An approved cementious backer board covered with a waterproofing membrane. Of course you need to be strong enough to carry cement board up some stairs. 

Tip of the ice berg boys. 

JW

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=100497&page=2


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## Ethos (Feb 21, 2012)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Here is some new pictures from Utah. Rod is a master setter and very familar with the proper use of Kerdi Board. He is finding that the MDF layer is separating from the foam....
> 
> I'd have to say this board needs some new designing.
> 
> ...


I'll throw my hat in the ring for Wedi. The slurry on the surface is just a modified thinset with fiberglass mesh across it, so I doubt it would have this issue. Since the Kerdi surface is fleece/cloth based, it doesn't seem to hold up well to moisture and heat combined.

I would be interested of any failures for that product however in such an applicaiton.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

So the links are gone but not the laughs over on the friendliest for....

OMG is this a funny thread.

"No the paper is waterproof"

"No the foam is"

"So the water goes through the paper to the foam"

"It was old stock"

"Maybe new stock"

LOL. What a **** show.


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