# Copper Pipe, Pin Holes , is it happening by you??



## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

I've installed thousands of feet of copper pipe in south Florida , soft and hard over head and in the ground roughs never ran across or saw any problems other than a leaking fitting or a drywall screw in it , I moved up to northwest Florida 2 years ago and opened my business last year I get at least 2 calls a month from one end of the county to the other end for leaks in copper pipe they all have been pin holes in all them it seems that all of them been on the cold supply side ,has anyone else seen this problem in their area of the country , any ideas what might be causing it ?



Try to send these jobs overseas !!!


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

It has to do with the PH of the local water supply. It is a well know and documented phenomenon. This is very common on wells.


----------



## Dustball (Jul 7, 2006)

I remember seeing this question on an old show of Ask This Old House.

Here's their answer-

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvprograms/asktoh/qaarticle/0,16588,1212564,00.html



> For instance, flux—the acidic paste used in soldering—react with copper if the pipes stand idle for a long period after installation. This kind of trouble typically crops up near fittings and in cold-water pipes because hot water is better at washing flux away.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

The areas that you mention have a high sulfur content in the water and it doesn't seem to like copper pipes. We have the problem here too, mostly in older homes. Electricians bonded into the copper plumbing 'just like we do it up north' without realizing that our ground is mostly all old beach and full of salt. Salt attracts water and the water table is commonly only a few feet down. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the rest.


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Simple solution, use type L copper or switch use pex.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Cross linked polyethelene will also break down when exposed to certain chemicals.


----------



## tzzzz216 (Dec 25, 2005)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Simple solution, use type L copper or switch use pex.


Ron, I was of the same thinking up until today when i found for the first time a leak in L copper . Thanks for your reply and others who replied to this post.


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Wow, L is some heavy duty copper, you might need to do some homework and find the best alternative/s for high PH levels in the ground.


----------



## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

teeter are theses chemicals you are refering to,found in our water supply.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I never found out the exact source but cleaning agents were highly indicated. I've only seen it twice but you could, litterally, crumble the tubing in your hand. Polyethelene is cheap crap IMHO.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

cmwacasey said:


> teeter are theses chemicals you are refering to,found in our water supply.


I was wondering what breaks down PEX too. I do know that it is not UV resistant, so if left out in the sun it will get brittle. They make gasoline cans from polyethylene. 

From my old college chemistry book: "...polyethylene is insoluble in all solvents and is resistant to the action of most reagents, other than strong oxidizing acids..." 

This makes it pretty bullet-proof in my book. Plus, PEX includes an anti-oxidant in the polymer to resist the oxidative degredation of hot water on the pipe. It will be interesting to learn exactly what does effect PEX, other than UV light.


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Nice to know there is more then just me on here that thinks Pex is good and not just some crap.


----------



## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

pin holes in copper,crap polyethylene,galvananize corrodes,cpvc is not good.what are we going to do?water damage business is looking good.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

md, your problem is that your old college book is old and you ain't getting any younger either.:laughing: 

I currently purchase my tubing from here http://www.newageindustries.com/ there are charts there that explain the differences between PE and PU. Since switching to PU, I have had 0 failures but it costs much more.

As far as what caused the failures, I'd like to know too. It sure ruined the PE.


----------



## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

teeter I think I will go with the pe.if they start running gasoline in my water pipes,I want it to corode---faster the better.


----------



## gitnerdun (Nov 1, 2006)

Back to pinholes..........Here in SW FL I was getting at least 1 call a day for a pinhole below slab (slab leak) last year. This past few months it has slowed to 2 a week. The majority of these calls are in homes less than 10 yrs. old and almost every one is on county water. My house is 50 yrs old never a slab leak and was on a shallow well for 40 yrs, go figure. I have repaired leaks in copper less than 2 yrs old. All of these are Type L.

Speculate all you want about flux, sand, shells, electrolisis, poor install, thin pipe, recycled copper, dumb southerners, whatever...........it has all been a hot topic among homeowners and plumbers. 

Repipes are as easy to sell as raincoats in the rain. People are repiping before the first leak. There are many plumbers that only do repipes and just name their price. People are/were panicky enough to pay whatever just to get on the long waiting list.

Leaks are not choosy about what nieghborhoods either, from 100k to multi-million $ houses.

The epoxy-liner guys are having fun too, with all the island fixture, marble floors, and fancy wallpaper houses. 

I am just 1 plumber who works by himself and doesn't advertise other than a phone# in the yellow pages. People weren't asking "how much" they were saying more like "we need you to repipe now!".

Last year I sold a few whole-house carbon filters to some regulars and they have had no leaks. Made a difference? Don't know for sure.

After 9-11 Is when this all started to happen, I think the local Government started to add more chlorine to the water to be safe than sorry later. I am not one of those paranoid people, so don't go there.

So you guys who don't have to spend a couple days a week on your knees hammering up concrete should be thankful. PEX is a gift to re-piping and is the better pipe for us here. You all should consider the fact that a homeowner or handy-man cannot get parts or work on a Wirsbo Pex system. Fewer fittings, flexible, and now water hammer. You an look at a connection tosee that it was installed properly. You can't do that with a glued joint. 

There it is in a nutshell, but it's not all that bad here in FL. It is 60 degrees this morning the sun is shining and I am going fishing, saltwater of course, that is where the bigones are.:clap: Bob


----------



## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

thanks bob--well written good information from someone working out in the feild.


----------

