# Labor skilled/unskilled.....



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

It is a HUGE problem out here.

Even the bad guys are busy.

Skilled guys, no matter the trade are in high demand.

Many guys are offering bennies, incentives & percs to keep guys on....

Radio & newspaper ads are prevalent recruiting guys....

and to make matters worse... there is a tremendous amount of prevailing wage work out there....

Just for some perspective journeyman trade guys are $65++ to them plus fringes.....

Little guys are having a tough time competing......

and on top of all this material is going nuts.....

earth to scotty...scotty please come in & beam me up...:whistling:thumbup:


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Journeymen making $150k a year. Wow.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Costs me $65 an hour to get the mower fixed.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

hdavis said:


> Costs me $65 an hour to get the mower fixed.


Yep. This is why I keep thinking I need to raise my rates again. I show up with 10,000 dollars in tools and a mower guy has 200 bucks in wrenches. And honestly, mower repair is something a 16 year old kid could do.

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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

hdavis said:


> Costs me $65 an hour to get the mower fixed.


Cost me $400/hr at the dentist yesterday for a routine cleaning.


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

griz said:


> It is a HUGE problem out here.
> 
> Even the bad guys are busy.
> 
> ...


 Folks need to earn big bucks in Cali cuz homes ain't cheep, gas ain't cheap, insurance ain't cheap, and do not forget the state tax, in Cali I felt I was earning for 2 me and the state.

Finding good help has always been hard the problem these days people tend to look down on the trades, we are not shown much respect and at times I feel one step up from a used car salesman, we have no mentor programs here to teach the young the skill set needed.

I bet you could find all the skilled help you ever needed if you played video games for a living.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Costs me $65 an hour to get the mower fixed.


High yes but you're talking shop rate vs Griz talking wages.


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Costs me $65 an hour to get the mower fixed.


 Back in the early 80.s I had a guy go nuts on me because our labor rate was $27.50 hr to work on high end euro cars, he asked if I thought I was a doctor, I told him no they get to bury there mistakes.


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## Caleb1989 (May 26, 2018)

sunkist said:


> he asked if I thought I was a doctor, I told him no they get to bury there mistakes.



Ahh yes, the old “what do doctors and foundation men have in common?” punchline . Well played sir 

Okay griz, that sinches it, I’m raising my rates 🤙



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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Golden view said:


> High yes but you're talking shop rate vs Griz talking wages.


This is the cheapest one around, and also the best.

Still, if I'm not making close to it, I ought to stay home and fix my own damn mower.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

hdavis said:


> This is the cheapest one around, and also the best.
> 
> Still, if I'm not making close to it, I ought to stay home and fix my own damn mower.


If you're like me, you could pay the $65 one hour shop minimum.

Or, buy $200 in the wrong tools, tinker for 3 hours, and then break it.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Golden view said:


> If you're like me, you could pay the $65 one hour shop minimum.
> 
> Or, buy $200 in the wrong tools, tinker for 3 hours, and then break it.



I never run the shop minimum. If I can fix it in less time than it takes to get it to the shop and get it back, I'll just fix it as a time saver.

It doesn't take much for tools, and I already have them all.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I bill out at 125.00 an hour.

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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

hdavis said:


> Costs me $65 an hour to get the mower fixed.


On a PW job many guys make better than that per hour....


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I bill out at 125.00 an hour.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


For what? That’s almost what my plumber bills at.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Big Johnson said:


> For what? That’s almost what my plumber bills at.


For everything I do. Millwork, on site work, machinery repair and rebuilding work. 


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

This might be a little off topic, but figured being talking about skilled and unskilled might fit in. Anyhow Was have daughter's bf help me just a little today. Ask him to cut me a piece of siding 90 1/4 in long , pretty soon comes back and ask me which is the 1/4 mark. So handed him a tape I bought by mistake that is marked out in 1/8s. Tell him right here. And he claims to have experience in framing , siding and such. Kind of had to laugh to myself. Think the trades are in big trouble if this is what we are looking forward too.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Randy Bush said:


> This might be a little off topic, but figured being talking about skilled and unskilled might fit in. Anyhow Was have daughter's bf help me just a little today. Ask him to cut me a piece of siding 90 1/4 in long , pretty soon comes back and ask me which is the 1/4 mark. So handed him a tape I bought by mistake that is marked out in 1/8s. Tell him right here. And he claims to have experience in framing , siding and such. Kind of had to laugh to myself. Think the trades are in big trouble if this is what we are looking forward too.


Well he knew where 90 was so that would be considered skilled.


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

My electrician took a desk job for a big company teaching new apprentices. He still fits me in when he can because we been working together for years and most of my jobs he can put in a few hours after work or a Saturday and take care of whatever I need. 

He was telling me that they accept pretty much anyone with a pulse that "wants" to be an electrician. Said a good percentage of these kids/guys that are hired and sent to him can't read a tape measure or don't know the basics of electrical or construction. I just can't believe that these kids want a job in a trade and by age 18 don't have a clue how to read a tape measure. So it's pretty safe to assume they have never cut a piece of wood or anything to length before. Never layed out anything before. I understand people go down different paths and have different interests and learn different things. But I'm sorry, if you want to be in a trade you probably should at least know how to read a tape by the age of 18.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Ill take a skinny jean wearing, never seen a tape measure, flat bill cap wearing millineal all day over a puss who has skills. I'll teach them skills. I'm sick of the pusses, drag their feet, slump their shoulders and act like they took a sedative. Square your ****ing shoulders up, speak from your chest and don't mumble and move your ass! You don't make money dragging ass!

The other day Golden View was saying he has no problems getting young guys who want to work.... I bet that's in small numbers. Try getting a dozen or 15. Good luck. I can keep 6 - 8 but 4 are over 40 and ones 54. The 54 year old works harder than any of the young guys except the site super. I got triggered so many times I almost fired three of them setting up a driveway last week. 3 are worth one. 

Go back and read my post from 6 years ago they said the same as you but I wasn't trying to run a bunch of guys. 

Ill take less guys and do less work and the pusses can go stock shelves or something.

Then one dude complains the older guys don't treat him right and are standoffish.... OH POOR ****ING BABY. GO GET IN YOUR SAFESPACE! 

They don't like you because you act like a *****!


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Pompanosix said:


> Last one I was one, the elevator guys made around 65ish. Hell even the guy running the crane (500t I think)) with a wagon was making less than 50. Those were the rates, at least. Don't know if his company was paying him more than that.




65 probably on the check for elevator mechanics they make good money.....prevailing wage for them would be far greater....probably 95ish 






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## RLH_CT (Sep 1, 2017)

Windycity said:


> $42 or so an hour on the check plus benefits (health/welfare, pension etc) puts the total at around 80 so billable is 100 to 125 an hour
> 
> I don’t think making 80k a year on the check is all that unreasonable in today’s world


My mistake, I thought you were talking $80 an hour straight time, plus benefits. $42 check rate is not unreasonable money - that's about what the union operating engineers in Santa Rosa area are making. Hard to live in northern California, or Chicago, on less than $75K. Can't begin to imagine how CaliforniaDecks does it on $50K!


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> My wife an I pay all our bills for 50k a year. And we are in Orange County.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


 you can't compare a senior citizens bills to a guy who has children who still have tuition and college and soccer camp and bandcamp and cheerleading camp in football camp excetera :laughing::whistling

By your age your house is paid for your kids are out of college and paid for, you're paying cash for cars. That takes out about another $50,000 in bills right there:laughing:

I would not venture to say what is a good living in California, but I would say a good living cost about 40% more for a Tradesman right now than it did when I started 18 years ago. A guy could have the same stuff for about 40% less.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> you can't compare a senior citizens bills to a guy who has children who still have tuition and college and soccer camp and bandcamp and cheerleading camp in football camp excetera :laughing::whistling
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You don't think we struggled at one time in our lives? It wasn't always easy. We paid our dues. We were young once too you know????


Mike.
_______________


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> We were young once too you know????
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________




I’m not buying it, you were born old. 

Mikes baby pic.:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> You don't think we struggled at one time in our lives? It wasn't always easy. We paid our dues. We were young once too you know????
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


well sure. Absolutely 

Maybe I did not express my thoughts well, but that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Expenses of someone who is retired or near retired, are not the same as someone in their prime. My point is your living expenses are not indicative of a normal families living expenses in the same locale. Right? 

Also a big difference between surviving and thriving. Any career or not offering money above surviving it's not going to attract Talent. 

Most people I have met from California, a bunch, say it is a lot cheaper here fwiw.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> well sure. Absolutely
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Agreed but it can be done. We started out just like the ones today. Just like anything in life. How much effort you put into things makes a huge difference. There's always greener pastures elsewhere. However I can make much more money than it cost me because I can build decks all year around. I can imagine not to many calls for a deck come in when it's 20 degrees out.


Mike.
_______________


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Californiadecks said:


> Agreed but it can be done. We started out just like the ones today. Just like anything in life. How much effort you put into things makes a huge difference. There's always greener pastures elsewhere. However I can make much more money than it cost me because I can build decks all year around. I can imagine not to many calls for a deck come in when it's 20 degrees out.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________



I know deck builders who don’t have much to do at least 4 months out of the year. Not good. I usually keep busy all winter unless I have an outside job and it gets ridiculously cold (like single digits) and snows a lot. I’m not making money shoveling snow half the day so I stay home.


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## Caleb1989 (May 26, 2018)

Growing up in Western Washington, we would frame in the rain and sometimes snow all winter long. I can remember my nail pouches being full of water to the brim. 

Here in CA, all work stops at the first few drops.


-Caleb

John 3:16


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

The crews and companies I worked with coming up in the trades would all work through all weather... No choice really. 
One learned to dress appropriately, or spent the day miserable. 
The only time I can think that we had to shut down was when we had a crane on site and the wind picked up substantially, and held throughout the afternoon, and there was nothing else to do except crane work. 

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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I couldn't imagine working everyday without shorts and tee. 


Mike.
_______________


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

i've worked in heat, rain & snow.

first consideration was health and safety...

heat could end the day pretty quick...

rain if it was a down pour and everyone sloshing around in puddles was a good time to quit.

snow...1" on the top plates go home....

rain & snow the misery factor played a big part in how long we worked.

if your soaked to the bone in rain gear & cold production goes away pretty quick.

snow sorta the same thing....

wind can end a day before it starts depending on what one is doing....


go home healthy and live to fight another day...


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I look back at the conditions we've worked in the past. 9 feet of snow, weeks and weeks of pouring rain until the flower beds start to float away, miserable 110 degrees and humidity, 18 degrees and trying to cut j-channel, icy logs while climbing up to drill pins in, roofing in heavy coveralls. Turning on the lights of the trucks to light up the front of a building so we could finish siding at 10 at night.

Not much chance I would do much of that now... I say as I finish up my day on the third job of the day at 8:30. However, that is better than last night's 10:30 Painting exterior doors with my rocket light.

Someday I will have it figured out. I do try and avoid the rain these days, and I have dodged most of the heat this year.

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