# By Brians Request, Mantel, Over Mantel



## Leo G

It is better. The upper section of molding needs to be wider than the lower section. It has to splay out. Going straight up makes it look boxy.


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## TBFGhost

? did you guys say it projected too much before? I am confused


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## nuwest

I like the latest version....I agree the FP should be the main focal point...
What program are you using? SU?


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## TBFGhost

Bigger crown...


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## TBFGhost

Sketch Up 8


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## TBFGhost

Here is the last one with a Cap on it to make it more wider...


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## katoman

TB I know this isn't easy, look at the pic I posted, the beam is supported by the columns. 

Myself, I would take that pic, reduce the "fatness" a little, and see if it will work for your situation. I know the fireplace is existing, yes? So you can't do whatever you want.

Your rendering is not "bad", just wondering what it would look like if you started from scratch using the pic as a starting point.

Seems to be overwhelmed by the wainscott, rather than being the focal point.

That's why there's architects. this stuff is not easy. At least you have a computer program to do it. I'm still drawing on a drafting board. :w00t:


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## TBFGhost

? All the columns are holding something up. The "Arcatrives" or whatever of the manel and over mantel are both sitting on top of the columns.... arn't they?

Its 12:24....time for bed. I can pick this up tommorrow. LOL

Thanks for the help guys.


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## Leo G

katoman said:


> Your rendering is not "bad", just wondering what it would look like if you started from scratch using the pic as a starting point.


He told me the same thing with my corbel pilaster question.

I think he just likes making more work for others :whistling


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## UpNorth

Try enlarging the upper architrave. You're almost there.


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## Tom Struble

buy a tv stand:thumbup:


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## katoman

Brian started this then he disapears? No drawings?

Oh, I forgot, he's working on those shaper profiles. :clap:


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## PrestigeR&D

*you can all....*










Kiss my......










I was just saying that it didn't look write to me.. just my opinion...  Man .. no offence to you TBF...:notworthy you do great work TBF.. keep it up:thumbsup: 


LEE,,,, would you mind getting that post up here.. sorry..I don't remenber that comment I made..,,,either .. that or I have become part of your hobby .......:shifty:


Katoman..... 

Tomarrow I have off.. and yes... I plan on getting that buttoned up.. work goes first.. everything else falls after.. hope you understand .. 


in the mean time..
I have a quate for you ..
Chris Farley.. 
SNL

..........." I wish you would be santa's little helper and .....SHUT YOU'RE DAMM CAKEHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!


:jester: 

B.


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## ApgarNJ

To me, they all look the same when you stand back and look at them. I think the top is too heavy. It's almost the same size as the bottom.

I'm not a designer though, I'm glad I don't get into too much designing. I can build things on the fly but have trouble putting them on paper. I like going off plans that someone else draws up. I don't have time to do design work.

Good luck.


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## Bjackson3

Try pulling the top columns in so that they are centered on the bottom ones, might help shrink the top and make it look not so top heavy. But then again maybe not, worth a shot though.


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## Dan_Watson

http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/flatscreen_mantelpiece.htm


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## PrestigeR&D

*Dan... AP....*

I just want you to pay attention to the announcers final comments.... if you have kids:no: (*adault language*) thanks Dan...sorry..:sad:






 

This about sums it up how you feel about this.....:laughing: but honestly,,, The American Vignola,,, that is one very good book about architecture..( for this period)something to start with.. ... it's in layman's terms:laughing: but seriously.. it is a very well organized book..:thumbsup:


B.


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## ApgarNJ

Brian, i've seen that video before, can't play it now with the kids in the room.

It's not that I don't care but if you really view a whole bunch of the sketches, they really all do look the same with just subtle changes.


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## Bjackson3

Oh and read the new TIC article a bout chair rail and maybe lower that wainscoting. Looks a bit too high.


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## PrestigeR&D

*exactly..,,,,*

I agree with you Dan.....:thumbsup: 

TBF had his sketches over at his other thread and then this small insert of a cartoonish like drawing in one of his responces... but with the idea of columns... "ROUND" columns...with a plinth and a cap block..... put that in your scethup TBF... .. ..check it out if you like.. IMO.. it flows.... 

There are some homes here in Buffalo that have this exact architectural element designed into the fireplace fesade... 


B.


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## Tom R

Maybe this will give you an idea or two to keep or toss??











Here's a page on it on my (ongoing) site, - - (click any pic to enlarge)

http://www.tr-built.com/fireplacesurround.htm


.


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## PrestigeR&D

*Thank you TOm..*

This is what I am refering to... I hope you don't mind.. but this is perfect.. this is what I am talking about.. the seperation.. .


nice work Tom:thumbsup: 

B.


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## TBFGhost

I told the GF what I want for x-mas


http://www.amazon.com/American-Vignola-Classical-Architecture-America/dp/0486283100


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## PrestigeR&D

*..........*

:thumbsup:....... like candy...  love that frikin book:thumbsup:


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## TBFGhost

PrestigeR&D said:


> This is what I am refering to... I hope you don't mind.. but this is perfect.. this is what I am talking about.. the seperation.. .
> 
> 
> nice work Tom:thumbsup:
> 
> B.


 

?????????????????????????????????????????????????:blink:

I have seperation...


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## TBFGhost

someone please enlighten me what I am doing wrong....


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## PrestigeR&D

*Tbf...*

I am not familiar with "Scetchup" can you do a (R) column on the mantel.. plinth.. cap.. ? 
I have CA XP... time..pacience.... I'll be here all night... can you throw something up we can look at? if it's not a problem? 

what are you doing wrong.. ? think about this... that mantel.. would you want anything sticking out beyond it from below? and why not? ..ahhhhhhhhhh.. here comes the rub.... all of the architecture from the vignola age was designed for a sense of power.. and this is really hard to explain....in Essenes the base is large.. well call that the "plinth" then the rise of the columns.. the pillar(column) is the symbol of strength... and then the Capitol is "proportionate" to that.. ie:smaller..not to for shadow the stability of the "Legs" and then the entabliture,,the "crown" on top.... hence........crown molding.. ..... this hole principle belief in this type of architecture has rhyme & reason... :thumbsup:


Thanks/...

B.


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## TBFGhost

Your talking Greek dude...I guess that is why you are so good with the classical structures.

And I am not a master at sketch-up. It just something I play with.


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## Mike Finley

TBFGhost said:


> someone please enlighten me what I am doing wrong....


Worrying about any of this, maybe? 


Go build it and get paid. Any customer will be wet over what you showed.

It sure as hell beats my 19" RCA black and white combo TV/VCR (beta max) that I have taped on the wall over my Amish Heat Surge


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## TBFGhost

Thank you for your kind comment and support mike. :thumbsup: :thumbup::notworthy
I am looking to increase my knowledge and this is a good project to do it with. I have alot of freedom with this one I don't normally have on others.


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## PrestigeR&D

*Greek....no I'm not...*

You threw up that snap of an entabliture.. you broke them down into their individual components.. thats knowledge TBF.. and you understand it.. ..:thumbsup: that (combined) is the entabliture...:thumbsup: and yes you do get it.. and I ain't speaking greek...
TBF..
you think I got this overnight......  no frikin way.. but that book~ best F"""ing book I have ever read....:thumbsup: it all comes together.. pretty quick....:laughing:

B.


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## TBFGhost

I do have a basic understanding that so much in what finish carpenters do is based upon Greek/Roman architecture from years past. I know there is a reason....I am just having a VERY hard time seeing where I am breaking those rules with that I built.... I am sure it is 100% "compliant" but I don't see anything that is sticking out screaming WRONG


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## PrestigeR&D

now your talkiin....... but this is like skipping class TBF...honestly.. there is some leway.. with the choice of profile.. that's why your probably uncertain about this... you sorta skipped a few rungs on the ladder IMO.. principles are the foundation to architecture ...... and that depends on the "era" what shortened my lesson up was the principles.. and in a flash TBF.. you can do anything that you want as long as you fallow some "guidlines" 

B.


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## Tom R

I don't claim to be 'up' on entablature (and too lazy to look any up right now), - - but I'll try to use a few fancy words anyway.

That detail you're showing in post #48, where the _pilaster_ is projecting further out than the _pediment_, (IMO) is wrong for this application.

That detail (again, IMO) is only appealing (and as far as I konw, only used) when it's above eye level.


P.S. I haven't followed the whole thread, so I'm taking it that's how you intend it to look??


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## TBFGhost

Reading that book is REALLY hard reading...


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## TBFGhost

Tom R said:


> I don't claim to be 'up' on entablature (and too lazy to look any up right now), - - but I'll try to use a few fancy words anyway.
> 
> That detail you're showing in post #48, where the _pilaster_ is projecting further out than the _pediment_, (IMO) is wrong for this application.
> 
> That detail (again, IMO) is only appealing when it's above eye level.
> 
> 
> P.S. I haven't followed the whole thread, so I'm taking it that's how you intend it to look??


 
Thank you for a clear answer. I will change the sketch up...see if I like it and post...

EDIT: I don't feel like playing with sketch-up tonight. This will have to wait.


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## PrestigeR&D

*Tom...*

Come on.. man I am 46.. I am not trying to impress anyone with fancy words... but ... let me tell you this,.... I would LIKE to talk about architecture.,,, intelligently..  thats all I am saying.. 

You guys are brutal.....


B.


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## TBFGhost

Here is a smaller mantel I did a few months ago.... 

How does this one stand out?


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## Tom Struble

need a pic to see what the ancient Greeks did with their tv's:blink:


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## Tom R

PrestigeR&D said:


> Come on.. man I am 46.. I am not trying to impress anyone with fancy words... but ... let me tell you this,.... I would LIKE to talk about architecture.,,, intelligently..  thats all I am saying..
> 
> You guys are brutal.....
> 
> 
> B.



My apologies for any misunderstanding.

I was in no way referring to your (actually much appreciated) knowledge, - - I was just trying to make clear that mine is limited.

It's a polite way of giving myself a built-in excuse to be wrong . . . :laughing:


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## Tom R

TBF, - - that is really SHARP!! :thumbsup:


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## festerized

How about this :thumbsup:


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## Tom R

Absolutely BEAUTISSIMO on the skyscraper mantel . . . !! :thumbsup:


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## festerized




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## Tom Struble

thats scary:shutup:


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## festerized

It was a kit, a lot easier than it looks


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## PrestigeR&D

*Ok...*

As I promiced....just to give you some idea of what this book about...

Here are the first 2 pages... an introdution..( 1-1/2) pages... reverse them ...page is listed..it's worth reading in my opinion... 

click the page and then adjust your browser to view 300% ....

B.


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## PrestigeR&D

*Some more..*

page 5 & 6 the five orders.. and there a few more pages about that not shown



B.


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## PrestigeR&D

*last 2...*

page 7 continued from above.. and page 12 ...the Vignola order plate II .. 29 to give you some idea about the geometry 

best I could do as far as size to get them on here.. 200kb  




B.


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## Inner10

Interesting idea. Still after mounting countless TVs above fireplaces I love the look but can't stand looking all the way up to watch it.


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## katoman

Totaly agree with that, the fireplace should be above the TV. :thumbup:


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## Leo G

A little copyright infringement there Brian?


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## PrestigeR&D

*I thought about that Lee...*

but I was just trying to show a sample of the book.... if you thinks it should go. i'll get rid of it,,,, 

B.


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## Tom Struble

Gary Katz has this available for download...just sayin

http://www.garymkatz.com/ChartsDrawings/JeffBurks/theory.of.mouldings-LR.pdf


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## Leo G

PrestigeR&D said:


> but I was just trying to show a sample of the book.... if you thinks it should go. i'll get rid of it,,,,
> 
> B.


Nah :whistling


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## Inner10

> Totaly agree with that, the fireplace should be above the TV. :thumbup:


I laughed hysterically when I read that...but it would look unique to have a small fireplace above a big TV with a huge mantel around it. :laughing:

Here's a few shots that I have on my phone...my neck almost hurt installing a few of em.


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## Snobnd

festerized said:


> How about this :thumbsup:


I like that one, has a nice ballance...:thumbsup:


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## Leo G




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## PrestigeR&D

*that's nice Lee...*



Leo G said:


>


 at least you don't see the TV, I don't know why but I personally don't like a TV installed over a fireplace..I guess I am just stuck in my old ways... but.. hey.. everyone has there own ideas... it actually starts to get uncomfortable watching it...IMO. I like that Link you threw up Tom "Gary Katz" ... :thumbsup:

B.


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## Inner10

> at least you don't see the TV, I don't know why but I personally don't like a TV installed over a fireplace..I guess I am just stuck in my old ways... but.. hey.. everyone has there own ideas... it actually starts to get uncomfortable watching it...IMO. I like that Link you threw up Tom "Gary Katz" ... :thumbsup:


I love the look but its no fun to watch. I had a client who purchases hi-res digital artwork and has it stream to each TV when the TV isn't in use....that way your TV above your fireplace is now art. :thumbup:

Mount up a thin TV with a picture-mount or a premier WTFM and it doesn't look like a TV anymore:










Or put your artwork in-front of the TV and use a motorized panel:

http://www.motivateddesign.com/tv-lift/art-and-panel-tv-lifts/


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## WarnerConstInc.

Flat screens get hot enough the way it is, seems reasonable to stick them over a heat source.

I would not make it 10 minutes looking up like that to watch the tv over the fireplace.


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## TBFGhost

It all depends on the room that it is in. The very last two I did the TVs were at a good height for the room....

In fact, the vest last one...the paint grade one, the firebox got lowered.... Nothing like re doing the fireplace to accomidate the TV


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## peter dan

Hi All,

I think designs are too good. But it will be more effective for viewers if we can have an isometric view rather than only front view of the mantel. 

Regards


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## Inner10

> It all depends on the room that it is in. The very last two I did the TVs were at a good height for the room....


Bedroom or family room? If the floor is level the only thing that changes the viewing height is the furniture and personal preference. 

Even that being said unless I'm mounting above a high cabinet, fireplace etc. 90% of my livingroom TVs are mounted 48" to the center of the screen. Bedroom TVs are 65" to center; but have more variance.


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## PrestigeR&D

*opinions aside.....*

on TV or no TV above a fireplace..

TBF posted this in respect to the design aspect... the stacked look of 2 FP's is the problem..IMO.... how can you design this without it looking stacked.... that's the chalange... 

B.


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## PrestigeR&D

*Jmo......*

Lets get that over with write away... JMO...
Nothing to do with the workmanship...at all...:no: 
I thought of a few details that could be changed on this TBF and yes it would be an additional cost to accomplish this.... however.. the presentation is something that clients may not be able to visualize.. and is a great selling point to be able to show them , all you have to do is put it together... and of coarse they have to be willing to pay for it to get this type of architectural implementation crafted. 
I just think it's a matter of lining things up a little more.... and what I did was my own idea.. take some.. leave some.. all I am saying to get some flow moving with design... 
You do great work TBF.. honestly..:thumbsup: I am not just saying that....and I want you to succeed and be successful and wish nothing but the best for you..  
We are talking about design... and implementation of architectural elements and designs.. that's it.. nothing more.. nothing less.. 
please don't be offended.. OK :notworthy nothing to do with you.. 

If you look at Frank Lloyd Write. He was a very contemporary Architect for his time. Personally.... I think his designs are incredible but not my style...square this... square that.. sharp corners.. but yet the way he put it together had a flow to it.. everything for the most part had some symmetry and balance.. a real nice "Flow" from one area to the next. 
One thing I do admire about his designs were the leaded glass work... just incredable... :thumbsup: 

Well.
Just my thoughts... anyone else have any thoughts or ideas on how to finally break the mantel over mantel appearence... knock your socks off...




B.


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