# Need advise on a gap filling problem



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

neolitic said:


> I am agnostic here.
> My first choice would be
> Taser the floor guy, and
> fill the gaps with strips
> ...


I like the idea.

HO is privy to this thread. I don't think they need any encouragement in that direction. She is heartbroken to say the least.

I'm in favor of the non sag Sikaflex with a backer rod. Tape the floor and cab parts. Maybe two applications.

The harder products, like bondo , I would be worried about them cracking away from the legs. 

That or find a fat chick. Werner, got any old girlfriends living out west?:laughing:


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

The Abatron is a different animal Gus.
If Bondo is like hard plastic,
the Abatron is much more like wood.
It is a micro balloon thing.
That said, caulk is probably
the best compromise.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I think the half-assed flooring guy should be figuring out some way to make his crap job look right.
> 
> That is one of the reasons I like the flooring down first.
> 
> ...





neolitic said:


> I am agnostic here.
> My first choice would be
> Taser the floor guy, and
> fill the gaps with strips
> ...


I went there earlier but it got no where!!:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Did the cabinets go in first so they could be painted in place?

If the flooring guy owned a MM he wouldn't have that problem.

Can you cut the feet off and add new ones?


I can send a good corn fed Indiana girl out west for you!!


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Not trying to be unkind, but the only reasonable way to have made those cabinets look like they're actually sitting on the floor would have been to do just that--install the flooring first. No way you can count on even one perfect cut, let alone that many.

I'd have to try caulk, but I'd tape, tool it and remove the tape before it sets up. If you let it set up first, odds are you'll leave little torn-off tails of tape here and there, which would be tough to clean up.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

It would take a seriously steady hand to get a perfectly straight cut at every point. 

Replace the entire floor with thicker boards and try again. :thumbup:


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> Not trying to be unkind, but the only reasonable way to have made those cabinets look like they're actually sitting on the floor would have been to do just that--install the flooring first. No way you can count on even one perfect cut, let alone that many.
> 
> I'd have to try caulk, but I'd tape, tool it and remove the tape before it sets up. If you let it set up first, odds are you'll leave little torn-off tails of tape here and there, which would be tough to clean up.


It has been my experience that when it comes to a prefinished floor, we are way better off installing the cabinets first. Not sure if you noticed but we could bury an elephant in a couple of those cabinets. They weighed at least 500 pounds or more. I don't want to bring those in the house on a finished floor. Installing any cabinet job is hard enough without being responsible for the floor.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

There are lots of inexpensive
new floor protection products
out there Gus.
It does make for a cleaner finish.


----------



## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

Hi Gus,
I'll go outside the box on this one.

If you cut the feet off at the bottom rail line, Can you reinstall a 1/2" or 3/8" thick piece so you end up with the feet visually recessed 1/4" - 3/8" from the face frame.

This would allow you to pre-fit and pre-paint the foot pieces and carry the line of the bottom rail around all the cabinets.

What it does is eliminates the flush condition of the stiles to the feet.

It might accent the foot detail....and no caulking.......:no:

Just a thought. ..Tom


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Gus,*

The damage has already been done, if the floor was going to be a full "field" application ,I would have put the cabinets in after the floor if they wanted the 90 degree transition with out any type of base/shoe molding, IMO . 
From a design aspect, I think it needs it a transition molding- to abrupt IMO. Yes the floor installer did a really bad job cutting straight, no doubt,, but, it is what it is now,, however- there are solutions. I think- even if the floor went in first, there are always imperfections, as far as being level, however minute it may be off, it all becomes evident when installing wall cabinets,, ie; molding, adds character,covers gaps- we have all been through it- show me a house that is perfectly square throughout and I will change my name to Sally:laughing:. :clap:
I think , based on the character of the room, style,,, and they want sharp angles,, install a narrow, rectangular kick molding , maybe 1-1/4"h x 3/8" projection that would keep the flow of the design , and not jeopardies the contemporary look,,, all sharp angles and a clean transition from floor to cabinets- ,,, IF it were me, I would discuss this with them ,it is not an eye pleasing transition , it looks unfinished to me Gus,and implementing that contemporary style molding would definitely do something to add the the rooms feel, It would look very nice and clean without sacrificing the contemporary look they wanted ,,, just a thought,, It looks "unfinished" that would be the first thing I would say if I saw that,, when is the molding going in???:whistling It looks unfinished:clap:

By the way----Kudos to you on the cabinets Gus- Very,Very, nice craftsmanship and attention to detail:thumbsup:

Brian


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Tape it off, Phenoseal adhesive caulk. You'll need three rounds if you want it to look straight. And then touchup paint. The only saving grace you have here Gus is the fact that they were painted on site. If it were a CV finish you'd be F'ed


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Gus Dering said:


> Installing any cabinet job is hard enough without being responsible for the floor.


Totally understood. Some day I'm going to perfect a method of making omelets without breaking eggs, and then all of my clients will be happy and I'll be set. :thumbsup:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Leo,,,*

ahhhhhh,,,,,,,,- I don't know about that bud,,, floor movement, expansion & contraction,,, that may look good now , but ,as you know- that floor "will" move- the outcome- just somthing to consider,,,,,, I don't know if this has any 'BEARING" on this:whistling:whistling ,whoops,,, sorry LEE:laughing:
Brian


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Tinstaafl said:


> ..... Some day I'm going to perfect a method of making omelets without breaking eggs, and then all of my clients will be happy and I'll be set. :thumbsup:


Ronco has an ap for that!


----------



## woodtradesman (Apr 23, 2008)

Is that oil base paint on those cabinets? It will be hard if not nearly impossible for your painter to touch up if there is tear-out on the legs and if the paint is oil. On the other hand the painter should be fine if excessive tear-out is absent, he can caulk like a champ and only touches up the gaps themselves and minor scratches on the legs. 

Thin backer-rod with quality caulk followed by a good hand at touch-up seems to be the best compromise that I can see here.

What does the GC have to say about this?


----------



## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Did he use a sawzall or a cordless beaver?
> 
> 
> .:laughing:


 

HAHAHA nice one


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Gus,*

Come on,,,,,,,,,,,
Gus, if you get a cabinet job and the floor is already installed , your not going to take the job in fear of the floor,,?????, It's not a big deal, I use Polly Matt's, I could drop my 22 oz estwing on it and no damage to the floor, pretty slick,,they roll up , throw them down,, it's no big deal, floor is protected, all is well:thumbsup:. 
Don't get pissed at me Gus- OK, I just don't understand why some of you choose to put the cabinets down before the floor-I never did. You are asking for more problems, It is just a hell of a lot easier to do the floors first ,,,,,then cabinets, less time, less mistakes,,etc,,etc,. I haven't damaged any floors as a result of protecting the floor, as long as you take the precautions - it's all good:thumbsup:

Brian


----------



## woodtradesman (Apr 23, 2008)

I windup doing add-ons and retrofits more often then not so have become very well acquainted with ramboard


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> *Gus,*
> Come on,,,,,,,,,,,
> Gus, if you get a cabinet job and the floor is already installed , your not going to take the job in fear of the floor,,?????, It's not a big deal, I use Polly Matt's, I could drop my 22 oz estwing on it and no damage to the floor, pretty slick,,they roll up , throw them down,, it's no big deal, floor is protected, all is well:thumbsup:.
> Don't get pissed at me Gus- OK, I just don't understand why some of you choose to put the cabinets down before the floor-I never did. You are asking for more problems, It is just a hell of a lot easier to do the floors first ,,,,,then cabinets, less time, less mistakes,,etc,,etc,. I haven't damaged any floors as a result of protecting the floor, as long as you take the precautions - it's all good:thumbsup:


Very well said, I agree...

Unfortunately the "ifs and buts" are great for the next install but doesn't help solve the current problem. Now I don't know jack freaking beans about installing cabinets or floors so I should probably just keep my mouth shut.

Would any of you floor installers actually be able to make a perfectly straight cut and have this look clean if you did the floor install?


----------



## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

I have had really good results with this,

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=142&SubcatID=23

I simply will. not. use. caulk. on wood as a filler. It doesn't seem to hold it's shape, it's nearly impossible to work the shape. It's not sand-able.

Just won't do it.

Neo's suggestion is more in line with what I would go with. I consider the above in that vein though obviously a different product.

With the above product you could fill in the entire depth of the gap and sand to the point where the original break was invisible. I have "replaced" small missing sections of trim where with steady knife work and sanding you can't find the patch at 3".

The only caveats I see with above product are,

1) it has less strength than a true filler/epoxy/bondo, but not sure it will come into play here (seems like it depends on the construction/weight distribution of what you built).

2) with whatever type of filler you use Gene's comment about floor movement. As Neo said, I think you could solve that with laying painters tape under the feet before filling to prevent bonding to the floor and then after filling undercut the tape slightly to remove, re-tape and paint. If you wanted an extra bit of insurance to make sure the filler doesn't bond to the tape/floor how about giving the top side a light dust of say WD-40 before putting it down? I would expect that to interfere with pretty much any filler's bonding action.

I really wouldn't consider not filling in this instance, seems the natural route (espescially if trim is out of the question).

That CrackShot above (I also use Bondo/other wood fillers in other situations where there is an issue of rot or high strength requirement) I have been able to observe in situations up to five years later and it holds up great. It is what I use in place of caulk for general wood filler in doors windows, trim seams/damage and all nail hole filling. It has phenomenal shaping and sanding characteristics.

Hope it helps Gus, good luck. I know which ever way you go you will get a result that ends up invisible and makes the HO happy as a clam.


----------



## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

My vote is for either a white shoe molding(1/2x3/4) or one to match the hardwood. I don't think this would ruin the aeshetics at all. If you can convince the HO of this I think it would be your best bet!


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Cabinet scribe would look decent.

Not cutting the cabinets would have looked really good.

Where in the hell is Gus?

Why did he spell advice wrong?


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Inquiring minds, indeed....:shifty:


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Cabinet scribe would look decent.
> 
> Not cutting the cabinets would have looked really good.
> 
> ...


Yes he did.

I was wondering if scribe would be the answer. Since nobody mentioned it until now, I was keeping quiet. Sometimes you have to do that to hide uneven walls.

I've never ever installed cabs without the floor being done first. So this is an interesting thread to me in case I ever have to.


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

I agree caulking would not be the best way to go.It is bound to shrink and or crack eventually.
How about making a shim to fill the void and then finish with bondo?If you will not have a problem getting the finish to match I think that would work.
The shim will keep things from moving so it should keep the bondo from cracking.


----------



## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

PrecisionFloors said:


> You bet. There are instances where my Supercut are invaluable, this is one of them. A Japanese tooth blade would make perfect cuts with no tear-out. The hardwood guy probably cut those with a jamb saw set too high, with a worn out blade.



+1 on the Jap flush cut saw, if you need it razor tight, she is your ticket. 

Seems like that corner would have taken some work with any thing but a plunge cut. if the SuperCut really will cut flat and level to a blades width seems like would have been the easiest.

The Bosch works well when you have less of a need for razor precision, short stroke, I find it very useful in many situations.

http://www.tylertool.com/bos16powhanw.html

Still looking forward to seeing how tight the SuperCut gets.


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Mulimaster with a nice sharp blade would have taken care of business.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

JumboJack said:


> Mulimaster with a nice sharp blade would have taken care of business.


I do believe,
that horse has done left the barn....


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*no molding???*

you guys think that looks finished??????? whats the big deal? incorporate a base small kick profile??? I just don't get it? it looks UNFINISHED-period,, If anything it would enhance Gus's work:thumbsup:
Brian


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

neolitic said:


> I do believe,
> that horse has done left the barn....


I know but with someone mentioning a Japanese pull saw I had to give a shout out to my homie the Multimaster...WoopWoop.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> you guys think that looks finished??????? whats the big deal? incorporate a base small kick profile??? I just don't get it? it looks UNFINISHED-period,, If anything it would enhance Gus's work:thumbsup:
> Brian


It still needs to skins under the cabinets, he already said that.

It is the feet that is the problem.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

JumboJack said:


> I know but with someone mentioning a Japanese pull saw I had to give a shout out to my homie the Multimaster...WoopWoop.


I said MM in my first post.:whistling


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I said MM in my first post.:whistling


I don't read your posts......:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

JumboJack said:


> I don't read your posts......:laughing:


Don't treat me like MZ!!:laughing:


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

JumboJack said:


> I don't read your posts......:laughing:


:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*so what is the problem....*

Warner,, I understand ,,,, what i am saying is fallow the profile.... , seriously, skin. no skin ,,,does not ,matter,, they are all 90 degrees ,,there is no side projection that protrudes beyond it's footing,,,, IT IS WRAPABLE SOLUTION in relation to the face of the feet, continue the profile all the way around - that would look awesome- a small profile kick,, 
,,,, IT IS RESOLVABLE Warner,,, He said it is out of the question, that is the HO speaking apparently,, I don't know - but to me - it would only enhance the look:thumbsup:
Brian


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Pwi


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I bet they like the clean lines. I would probably be happy with a 1/4"x2" scribe around those feet but, I bet the HO won't.

WWMHD?





























(what would mike holmes do?)

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*write but*

forget the mistake- act like it never happened-- IT LOOKS TO RAW-PERIOD! What Gus's client opts for???? but regardless of the mistake - from a design aspect- it is definitely a contemporary design, it is "NOT" out of line to "add" a continuation of sharp right angle design in this situation at the base and would not hinder the aspect and style. currently- it is unfinished with out them in place and appears naked - it's meerly a benefit and an eye pleasing transformation from floor to Gus's fine work,,,, I just want to know what you guys think,, how many times have you gone into a contemporary house and "not" seen base molding installed- irrespective of style,,,,, what do you think??:whistling
Brian-


----------



## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

woula shoulda coulda

My ideas are good , Gus..

Tell me different, please


----------



## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> This is of a "ultra" C O N T E M P O R A RY style and a plinth is not part of the design aspect,, all sharp angles - simple and clean - less protrusions, the better and keep it simplistic with sharp angles in nature,,,, nothing from the Vignola,
> Brian


I think you need to crack another pint, I almost understood that one.

:w00t::laughing:


----------



## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

If that idea is out, I'd square off all the screw ups cutting them no higher than I have to, glue strips of wood in, sand and repaint. Is it just the columns or are the end panels screwed up too? The columns wouldn't be too terrible to fix but the end panels would be a pain in the ....


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Clif,,,,*

I want you to think back,,,,,,,,Chris farley,,,,,,,SNL,,,,," Mom, I wish you would be santa's little helper and SHUT,,,,,,,YOUR DAM,,,,,,,,,,,Cakehole"- :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:
Thanks Clif:thumbsup: Talk with you Sunday Boss,,, I gota get off of here,,,,
Brian


----------



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Tape both sides and use "solarseal" caulking, a few applications, use stiff knife to smooth flat, paint. solar seal will flex and never crack, sticks better than silicone yet is paintable. i love this stuff for almost all my caulking applications. it also comes in a lot of colors.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> What about the night at the gentleman's club?
> 
> Gus should have to pay for that, it is a business entertainment expense.:laughing:


Thank you for mistaking me
for a gentleman. :clap::laughing:


----------



## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

neolitic said:


> Thank you for mistaking me
> for a gentleman. :clap::laughing:


 I made the same mistake, till I saw you dropping F-bombs over at the crazy site.:whistling


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

loneframer said:


> I made the same mistake, till I saw you dropping F-bombs over at the crazy site.:whistling


And this shocked the Jersy kid? :shifty:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

neolitic said:


> Thank you for mistaking me
> for a gentleman. :clap::laughing:



Strip club does not sound quite as classy.:laughing:


----------



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm not trying to take the easy way out by saying caulk but if done right and a great painter you'd never see shrinkage, cracking etc. it would look clean. I don't see how putting shims of wood under and filling/sanding is going to be any better. wood filler has a better chance of cracking with slight floor movement than solarseal does. i've never seen that stuff get hard or brittle or crack. if the right guy does it, you won't ever know. everyone is focused on it now because it's the center of attention. once the rest of the job is finished, no one walking into that home will ever know.


----------



## Ashcon (Apr 28, 2009)

Gus if you recut the feet so they were equal thickness, could you rip some thin strips of floor material and slip them in flush or 1/32"inside the front edge of the feet. That way it will look like the floor meets the legs. Then you can install your toe kick. I have not had to do this but I do believe this solution would pass even with some of my toughest customers. :thumbsup:
Good luck hope all works out well.


----------



## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

neolitic said:


> And this shocked the Jersy kid? :shifty:


 FnA:thumbsup:


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

When I saw Gus's very first post in this thread, the very first thing that came to mind was a silly wisecrack about using caulk as a band-aid fix. I thought of it as silly because this is a relatively high-end job, and as such doesn't deserve a Joe Sixpack fix if there's any reasonable way to avoid that.

There are several ways to salvage the situation "properly", some of which have been mentioned here. But they would be quite time-consuming and expensive relative to the real-life impact and importance of what's really a minor cosmetic flaw. I seriously doubt that any of the homeowners' guests are going to get down there with a magnifying glass to discover and criticize a small oops-patch.

The real contretemps here is more a matter of principle than practicality. In reality, caulk would work just fine, and anyone who didn't know it was there and looked closely for it would never know the difference.

If the principle must be satisfied regardless of cost, who's going to pay? I think I could make a good case for laying the burden upon any one of the parties involved. I could also make a case for everyone sharing it.

I vote to caulk it and move on.


----------



## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

ApgarNJ said:


> I'm not trying to take the easy way out by saying caulk but if done right and a great painter you'd never see shrinkage, cracking etc. it would look clean. I don't see how putting shims of wood under and filling/sanding is going to be any better. wood filler has a better chance of cracking with slight floor movement than solarseal does. i've never seen that stuff get hard or brittle or crack. if the right guy does it, *you won't ever know*. everyone is focused on it now because it's the center of attention. once the rest of the job is finished, no one walking into that home will ever know.


Caulk as a filler is my personal pet peeve so I am gonna chime in here.

Caulk is a sealant, it's not a filler, wood or otherwise. It's proper use is exterior doors and windows, showers and sinks places where a weather or moisture barrier is needed. I'm sure other use cases could be made where it may be the best choice available.

However it is unsuited, by it's nature, as a filler. It does *not* give you results "you won't ever know". It just doesn't.

Most guys I run into use caulk as a filler, they almost to a man claim how good it will look when they are done and some who are good produce results that don't draw the eye. But looking like the original wood following the plane or curve or corner of what is being filled? unable to be detected when you *are* looking for it as opposed to standing 6' away and glancing around the room? I don't think you know anybody that can give you that, I just don't think it's possible.

I have seen plenty of guys who claimed it and all have failed.

If you want "results" that are as "good" as the standard that seems to exist out here use caulk, hey it's fast and cheap. But the only way you won't be able to tell it's not there is to not look very closely.

Caulk is not tool-able, except in a primitive fashion.
Caulk is not sand-able, what it dries as you are stuck with.
Caulk is not build-able, it works only in a recession.
Caulk is not stable, it is flexible by design and will not resist deformation.

Catch some of Resa's plaster work here on the site. Though he is using plaster or some variant the qualities of that material are the same qualities you want in a wood filler. Caulk, any kind of caulk, ain't it.

I offer all of the above simply in the pursuit of great work and I don't mean to imply that you don't do great work. I am just offering my opinion on why caulk is a poor choice to achieve excellent results.

I expect to take some hits for this post, let em rip.


----------



## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> When I saw Gus's very first post in this thread, the very first thing that came to mind was a silly wisecrack about using caulk as a band-aid fix. I thought of it as silly because this is a relatively high-end job, and as such doesn't deserve a Joe Sixpack fix if there's any reasonable way to avoid that.
> 
> There are several ways to salvage the situation "properly", some of which have been mentioned here. But they would be quite time-consuming and expensive relative to the real-life impact and importance of what's really a minor cosmetic flaw. I seriously doubt that any of the homeowners' guests are going to get down there with a magnifying glass to discover and criticize a small oops-patch.
> 
> ...


Having said all that I said above, in this context, I can see how (minus the possibility of the HO's looking at it from 6" and letting it gnaw at them and thus disturb what should be complete satisfaction at what looks like a great job on Gus's part) this might be the solution to choose. 

During daily living I agree it won't be very noticeable.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

How about glazing compound for window panes. It is soft, pliable, paintable, doesn't shrink and will become hard over time. It bonds to wood but won't bond to the finish on the floor.

I like UGL glazing compound. But recently I can't find it and DAP 33 is what I use. I don't like it as much. It is gooey.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

All of which is why I suggested
the Abatron.
It is made to fill wood.
It bonds to wood.
It doesn't shrink (in fact it swells a tad.)
It can be tooled.
It can be sanded. 
It can be shaved and "worked."
It is about the same hardness 
as wood.
It isn't Bondo, except in the minds
of folks who know no better.

Other than that, there isn't 
much to recommend it.


----------



## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

neolitic said:


> All of which is why I suggested
> the Abatron.
> It is made to fill wood.
> It bonds to wood.
> ...


That's certainly why I liked your suggestion, (I might even prefer it to my own). :thumbsup:


----------



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

He was looking for a FIX, aside from tearing it all out and doing it the right way, he's got a few options. I don't use caulk as a filler Warner, but I was simply saying for gaps as small as he has, it may work, looks like most of them are less than 1/8". moulding is out of the picture. he's left with less and less options. I totally get what you are saying and I believe it but faced with this situation he's gotta make the right decision.
most fillers will crack over time and separate from the flooring and you will see a messy edge as this happens over the years. it may look good when done but not down the road

Glazing compound will eventually crack and not bond with a prefinished floor. 
the bottom line is that the flooring guy is a hack and didn't use the proper tool. he should not be paid for his services until he makes it right for the homeowner/contractor.


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Under normal conditions this would be a no brainer, easy procedure.

We bring in these aircraft carrier cabinets over a sub floor and muscle them into place, scribe them, muscle them back to the floor and cut them, muscle them back on the wall, slide them to their final resting palce and screw them off. Leave the legs a little long for the *unknown* thickness of the flooring.

Trim carp hangs doors and casings (also leaving the legs long), painter does his thing, stone guy does his, sparky trims out....... Qualified flooring installer comes in and trims off all the leg elements to a 1/16" or less and slides his flooring under it all.

Trim carp comes back and installs his base. Nice guy that he is, pops Gus' precut toe skin on for him while he is right there.

Painter comes back and fills the nail holes in all the base and toe skins. Very carefully he caulks the small gap at all the door jambs and leg elements on the cabinetry. Puts his top coat on the base.

HO moves in. 


You can draw this up where the floor goes in first. But that was not how this team drew up the game plan. The only reason this is an issue is that it seems as though the flooring installer needs a lesson on how to do what *he* said he could do.

It is also my opinion that this area between flooring and legs needs to be *sealed* with a quality caulk. After all who can't envision the housekeeper slopping a "damp" mop into these corners on a semi regular basis? I say sealed for a reason. I didn't say filled for the same reason. If we had our 1/16" we wanted, there would be a chance that I never saw this place again. 1/16" properly sealed and top coated is a beautiful thing even under close inspection.

I have a phrase that I use quite often. "The easy way is hard enough". I never use it as a way of justifying a short cut or passing a problem on down the line. I use it as a humorous way of saying lets do what is the fastest, most efficient way of achieving our collective goal while considering everyone's scope of work.

I can't draw up a game plan for new construction where everyone's interests are better protected than the above scenario. But that is not to say another team would have gone a different direction with better results given the outcome we are faced with. But I will still lobby for the same game plan on the next one.

All that said, if this was my house, I would take a list of the quality caulking products to the painter and ask him what he thought about using anyone of them. If he flinches at the use of caulk I would move into Neo's idea and talk that one out. Regardless, I would find a course of action with the painter. If he felt he needed more money to *seal *the larger than expected gaps, well, lets just say the flooring guy would be happy to do his part.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Wow what a mess that flooring guy made of them lol. What on earth did he use to do that and why would you even attempt do it knowing that you cant do it without the proper tools. I would be having words with this flooring guy and getting him involved with the repair decision with the customer.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I think your flooring guy had one going while was laying that floor.

Did he by chance have glaucoma?


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Wow! I think you........ :shutup:


----------



## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Gus did the right thing by leaving the feet further down because the floors are never perfectly level, especially in older homes. so I get why he had to leave the feet longer because they were the only parts not getting a toe kick or moulding added later. seems as though the main base cabinets were set on 3/4 ply, so the flooring guy shouldn't have had to cut back at the toe kick.


----------



## jamesclerie (Mar 6, 2009)

how about cutting the bottoms so you have a uniform gap lets say 1/2 inch and add a bead detail to fill the gap


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> Gus did the right thing by leaving the feet further down because the floors are never perfectly level, especially in older homes. so I get why he had to leave the feet longer because they were the only parts not getting a toe kick or moulding added later. seems as though the main base cabinets were set on 3/4 ply, so the flooring guy shouldn't have had to cut back at the toe kick.


At a boy.:clap: 
Now you are up to speed. There are a lot of times when we are instructed to install the boxes before hardwood and there are no feet that reach the floor. In those cases the same 1/2" toe skin is applied after and it drops down on the hardwood, covering the gap between the hardwood and out toe assembly.

Another 8 pages and anything is possible.:laughing:



jamesclerie said:


> how about cutting the bottoms so you have a uniform gap lets say 1/2 inch and add a bead detail to fill the gap


We shall see if the HO's want any type of profile added at this time. I seriously doubt that will be the first shot at it though.



WarnerConstInc. said:


> I think your flooring guy had one going while was laying that floor.
> 
> Did he by chance have glaucoma?


:laughing::laughing: Nice come back 

When I met the flooring guy while we were starting our install, I got the impression that he himself was going to be installing the floor and cutting the legs was a no big deal kinda thing. Now I wonder if he had someone from the hydroponics field helping out. Northern California has quite the agriculturally diverse labor pool ya know.:whistling


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

jamesclerie said:


> how about cutting the bottoms so you have a uniform gap lets say 1/2 inch and add a bead detail to fill the gap


It helps to read the thread.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

At least I now understand how
you and Leo get away with those 
"leggy" toe kicks. :notworthy
All of the ones I've dealt with
were flush with the base, so that
if one lands in a low spot, I have to
make all the rest short.
It's good to know someone allows 
for the scribe rater than ass-umes
the floor is perfectly level.
Makes a difference when the cabinet maker
is gonna be the installer....


----------



## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

Looks like every option has been voted out
I will chime in anyway

If this were my house_ I _would..

1. Quarter round would already be installed

2. Install toe kicks. Wrap legs with 3/4 inch square material maybe 2" tall? you would have to cut a few pieces to pick a good height( Make legs look beefy)

3. Caulking or filling would achieve the look I think you and the homeowner are looking for
No matter how this is done I believe it to be temporary
and needing maintenance

That is exactly what I would have expected from a flooring sub I was not already familiar with

Good luck


----------



## Bencouver (Sep 17, 2009)

i would use bondo. i have had to do this on door jambs before. i like to drive the floor down by driving little MDF shims under until the floor is tight to the subfloor. that way you know it won't crack when somebody steps near it. you leave the shims long so you can tool them off with a nice sharp chisel. they also provide the backing for the bondo. in fact its not really backing because i keep the shims snug to each other and use wood glue. it ends up being a solid piece. the bondo is just for filler. i also like to shave the bondo down with a brand new olfa blade just after the bondo kicks off but while it is still plasticky. it carves very nicely. be careful not to scratch the floor sanding the bondo. sometimes your best off not to sand the bondo but just do the best job you can with your olfa and then fine tune it with spackle. either way there is a solution but this one has worked flawlessly for me and anyone with some good finishing skills could pull it off i'm sure.it is time consuming though but you can make it perfect with some effort. i would stay away from caulking. it will just make your nice cabinets look cheap and be a mess to cleanup after you figure that out.


----------



## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Bondo


----------



## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

What ever came of this?


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I've never used this product, but I did hear and read a lot of good reviews:
http://www.castlewholesalers.com/BIG-STRETCH-White-Caulking-10-5-Oz-.html


----------



## covaltleveling (Aug 13, 2010)

*Gap Fill*

I suppose you could tape off the upper and lower edge to perfection and then caulk the gap with a poly joint sealant. You would have to do a perfect job and the paint to match... It still may not please the homeowner.

If the floor had not been installed I was going to recommend a self leveling floor underlayment to level the subfloor and leave just right reveal for the wood flooring to flush out with the cabinets.

photos/job looks great otherwise! good luck on this,

Covalt.....


----------



## claymation (Aug 11, 2010)

Just curious how you fixed it and if the HO was satisfied with the results... thanks.


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

I had to drop by there recently and it has not been fixed and no one has moved in yet either. 
They have been busy dealing with other priorities for some time. I'll post up when they make a move.

I have some new photos in the camera though. I'll dig them out and get back.


----------



## MarcD (Sep 18, 2009)

only idea I could think of is to rip some thin strips of laminate, tap these with some glue into the gaps. putty sand and repaint. May have issues with cracking in a few years but outside of shoe cant think of anything.

Very nice looking cabinets btw good job. Was surprised to see prefinished flooring with that caliber of cabinet.


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)




----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Did you edit the blue tape handles out?

Looks real nice Gus.


----------



## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Did you edit the blue tape handles out?


I was using those on another job so we didn't have them available for this one.:laughing:


----------



## claymation (Aug 11, 2010)

Gus Dering said:


> I was using those on another job so we didn't have them available for this one.:laughing:
> 
> View attachment 34956


sweet pulls. What was the budgeted allowance for those?!


----------

