# When Does Employee "Side Work" Become A Problem?



## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Everyone here, I'm assuming, started their businesses, and built their clientel as well as confidence by doing sidework while working by the hour for someone else.

The side work I've done, I believe, benefitted the company more than it damaged it. I never used company tools,did work for,or even entertained the thought of working for one of my company's clients. 

I learned how to make decisions, bid jobs, and increased my knowledge of building in general. The experience I gained extracarricularly made me more valuable as an employee, in my opinion.

I'm not self employed, but the stress and responsibilities I'm now faced with make side work seem like too much hassle so I stopped. The illegitimate company thread led me to asking this question. Sidework is inevitable, but when is enough enough?


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

No. I did no side work. I had tremendous opportunity but I did no side work. I do not believe side work is inevitable. 

Full time Employees are forbidden from working for anyone else within the industries I service. It's part of the no-compete agreement. If they need extra money they can go work at McDonalds for example, but can't work for a competitor or become a competitor. 

My production manager was asked by his land lord the other day to patch the roof. He asked me permission and I said he could because it's essentially his roof leaking since he lives in the building. However in the same day a friend of his asked him to repair the roof on his office building. He brought out one of our estimators with him and the proposal came from our company. 

When do side jobs become too much? When they begin to interfere with their primary duties. Where do their priorities lie? If their goal is to start their own company then give them the nudge and fling them from the nest.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Total agreement with grumpy, in all regards including never did side work. 

Ideally I would rather be able to pay somebody a good enough living where they could spend their off time with their families and not working.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Its not inevitable, its just poor judgment. 

When is it OK for someone to work for someone else under the table, without insurance, a business lisence, or paying taxes on that money?

Its bad for everyone involved. I've given this topic more than a little thought over the years, but I keep coming to the same conclusion. Side work hurts everyone involved more than it benefits any one person involved. How can that be good?


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

It only becomes a problem if it interferes with their PRIMARY job, YOUR business.

THIS IS AMERICA! THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY! If a guy wants a big family or a higher education for a smaller one and is willing to work two jobs to realize his dream, I have all of the respect in the world for him.

I think that most of us fit into this catagory. We just work one job 16 hrs. a day and nearly 7 days a week.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

My loyalties have always been with my company, that's arguable based on my previous post. I think a lot of people forget the fact that they turn people away because they don't fit their style, price range etc..... How about requiring someone give up their garage for dedication to a contractors tool storage? There's so much work out there that contractors blow off because they don't see the $$$$ or isn't worth their time, they don't call back and never show. I used to get calls daily because local contractors wouldn't give them the time of day. 

I give you guys a lot of respect if you're paying your help enough to discourage side work and train them respectfully, but the wool is most likely being pulled over your eyes!


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

This isn't about 'keeping someone down' or 'taking advantage of someone by cherry picking the jobs', its about law and proper business practice.

If someone wants to work two jobs, fine, let them work two. I don't care. But side work by definition is not a second job. A job is something you are employed to do. Side work involves a contract of some sort, verbal or written, so you're not an employee, but an 'independent contractor". If you don't claim that income, protect your client with insurance and licensing where required, permit and have the work inspected, then you're not a law abiding person.

America is a nation of law. Since when is it OK to pick and choose what laws you will and will not follow? Since when is it OK to put another's person or property in jeopardy? That's called 'negligence.'

Since when is a lie by ommision, not a lie?

The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions. One might intend to do right by that old retired couple and give them a good deal on a new roof, but who pays for the permits, and the downtime when the building inspector shuts down the job? Who pays for the water damage because the tarp you put down blew off in a high wind and you didn't think it would so you didn't buy insurance?

How are you going to tell them the only way to pay for your medical bills is to sue them and their insurance company because you fell off their roof and broke your back?

Don't wave your flag or ***** because you have a garage full of tools instead of a nice bass boat. You chose the profession you're in. Go be a CPA if you want an empty garage.

Point is, it ain't right, and it never gonna be right. It might be "right now", but it will catch up to everyone if they do it long enough. Its just like a casino. You might win for a while, but play long enough, and the house odds will catch up to you.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

I think there is a fine line between what is acceptable and whats not. I have no proablem for an employee of mine to help his friend out with a project around his house for beer money, or someone else he has known for years.

I think it becomes a proablem when he is out their pickup up work from people off the street.

To tell your worker that he can't help his best friend since pre school re roof his house on a sunday is ridicoulous.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

I have no problem with what my employees do outside of work, and after 4:30pm. If they want to remodel thier friends kitchen, or finish thier sisters basement I don't care. I don't even care if they put in a new floor for the woman up the street. I DO care if they solicit to other contractors, or advertise thier services to the general public. My foreman, who i've known for over 25 years recently did a large remodel for his neighbor. He asked me if he paid for it, would I get a roll-off for him for his project, I didn't blink an eye. Now here is a man who has put in countless hours for me over the years without one excuse, goes the extra mile for me when I need him to, and even went a week here and there without a check way back when I had just started business(of course I paid him with interest as soon as I could). Would I do it for all my employees? No. Would I condon that behavior on a normal basis? Absolutly not. But if it's not interferring with my work day, or soliciting to take possible work away from me, I don't really care to much.


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## marc (Mar 18, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> It only becomes a problem if it interferes with their PRIMARY job, YOUR business.
> 
> THIS IS AMERICA! THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY! If a guy wants a big family or a higher education for a smaller one and is willing to work two jobs to realize his dream, I have all of the respect in the world for him.
> 
> I think that most of us fit into this catagory. We just work one job 16 hrs. a day and nearly 7 days a week.



What if it's your customer that asks him to do a side job. Do you think that's OK. When your customer refers you do they tell their friends, neigbors and co-workers to call you or do they say.........."call so and so. He does all the work and he's way less expensive"

JUST A THOUGHT.

If one of my employees is working on the side, I need to wonder where he got the job. If I need to wonder about that sort of thing he will not be an employee any more.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I had a salesman back in 1999, and I found out from one employee, that he was taking some of the estimates I sent him out on and bidding them as side jobs. 

As soon as I found out about it, I told him that he had just fired himself. First, I gave him an opportunity to explain what his version of the story was, but he knew he was caught red handed and didn't even offer any reasoning.

I wonder how many thousands of dollars I lost, just because he did not want to bid the jobs at the set price.

Ed and eddie


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## Jack's Building (Jan 31, 2007)

Working for my clients- Never. 
Some work over the weekend, I do not have a problem with. However if it is causing them to be less productive while working for me we need to talk. If one of the guys wants / needs some extra money I would not attempt to force them to MacDonalds, or some other non trade related business. They are in this business because they like it and it is the feild where they make the most. If you expect to keep good workers you have to have some give and take. 

My 2 cents on the matter. 

Jack


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## Ted W (Jan 7, 2007)

I did some temporary fill-in work for a custom stair company early last summer, on the payroll but still a temp position. When first dicussing my work and responsablities the owner said that he allows all his employees to do side work, even use company tools and the company shop during off hours, as long as they don't compete with the company. I personally had no interest in side jobs, but most of their permanant employees made substantial extra income this way. It didn't seem to affect their performance, probably because they handled their side work as professionally as their full time. In short, it seemed to be a good thing for everyone involved. The workers were more loyal to the company because it gave them access to the shop and tools, they never had to worry about money, and the company paid enough that they didn't have to do the side work. Of course, if they didn't perform well on the full time job for any reason, they would be out the door in short notice.

I don't have employees but if I did, I wouldn't try to dictate what they did on their own time. As long as they deliver optimal performance from 7:30 to 4 and don't mess with my customers, their off time is their own business. However, they would not be allowed to borrow company tools.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

From my perspective, if an employee wants to be honest with me about a side job for family, I will allow them to use the compressor and nail guns and other tools on the weekends. If it is just some acquaintance, or neighbor, I would expect them to turn the job over to the company and I will write up the contract which they will recieve the commission for.

One legal warning though. A friend of mine became a partner at a competing company. His personal attorney asked him to do a roof for the attorneys mother to pay off a portion of the DUI legal fees he incurred. The friend did the job with the company trucks and equipment, even though the company had no written or verbal authorization of the side job. Their were problems with the job and since my friend had very limited assets, the company he worked for was brought in as a party to the lawsuit for the damages. They actually had to pay out funds due to the action taken. 

Boy, does that suck.

Ed


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## dwest (Feb 1, 2007)

The way I see it is the guys that work for you are always gonna get offered a side job from someone they know or a freind of a freind. So to try to prevent them from going out and bidding the job I let everyone I hire know that for every job lead you bring to the company and we get that they will get a nice commision on top of there reg. pay. Kinda keeps the guys honest and they seem to like the bennys more knowing the whole crew is helping on the job rather than them going it alone.


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

The moment a guy thinks he is capable of handling side jobs is the moment he will begin stealing jobs from you. I have had employees of subcontractors offer to do side jobs. I decline them and call the owner of the company. Its never okay in my opinion.


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

Grumpy said:


> No. I did no side work. I had tremendous opportunity but I did no side work. I do not believe side work is inevitable.
> 
> Full time Employees are forbidden from working for anyone else within the industries I service. It's part of the no-compete agreement. If they need extra money they can go work at McDonalds for example, but can't work for a competitor or become a competitor.
> 
> ...


 
interesting grumpy, makes me wonder how a tradesman could sign their skills away, ... is this contested at interview, all my guys are at will employees

ray


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## whop455 (Mar 8, 2007)

In my opinion, side work becomes a problem if the job is just too big for one or two guys to handle in a weekend. I went though 8 years of learning this trade, so who's to say I can't make some of my own money on the side. If it's a small job, most contractors anymore over estimate, having more expenses to cover than a "weekend contractor".


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

whop455 said:


> In my opinion, side work becomes a problem if the job is just too big for one or two guys to handle in a weekend. I went though 8 years of learning this trade, so who's to say I can't make some of my own money on the side. If it's a small job, most contractors anymore over estimate, having more expenses to cover than a "weekend contractor".


 exactly, if in fact they even bother to bid the job. All of my calls come because no one will return theirs! Any side work I've ever done has been so far out of contractor range they felt helpless and felt I was their last resort. I've done them more as a favor than for money.


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> It only becomes a problem if it interferes with their PRIMARY job, YOUR business.
> 
> THIS IS AMERICA! THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY! If a guy wants a big family or a higher education for a smaller one and is willing to work two jobs to realize his dream, I have all of the respect in the world for him.
> 
> I think that most of us fit into this catagory. We just work one job 16 hrs. a day and nearly 7 days a week.


yep. My thoughts exactly. I tell my crew almost everyday that they should be my future competition.


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