# Looking for Electrical Remodeling Tips



## JHezlep (Oct 4, 2006)

For the past year and a half 90% of my business has involved residential additions. The only problem I have is these can be time 
consuming since half of the job tends to require fishing wire in existing walls, altering circuits in the attic etc... Any one who has leared a trick or two and would like to share Im all ears. Im allways looking at a way to becouse more efficient in my work.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

String and lead weight, and fish sticks. 

I dunno. Most of my work is old work and service, so it's hard for me to sort out what might be a trick that is unknown to others. There are definately different techniques and tools involved in old work. Smart Boxes are the best thing to have come along recently for old work.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

If there is some particular old work task in which you feel you spend too much time on, I'd be pleased to share my method with you to see if it is any faster than your current approach.


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## ATS (Jun 28, 2005)

There are times when the drywall saw must make it's presence known, of course there are many tricks to doing that correctly as well. Really, we could write a book here for such a general question.


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## itsunclebill (May 18, 2006)

If you are going to be successful doing work that involves remodeling and additions you really have to be creative. If you can't wander through a store and see several things that bring up a "wonder if I could use that to........" you're in the wrong end of the business.

Some of us have spent years in the business trying various ways to re-wire old victorian houses with pristine plaster walls that the owners don't want damaged. On one hand, I love to share information and show people how to do things. On the other hand I'm not the least bit interested in my competition finding out how I do some things - even resorting to staying after other trades leave so some electrician's plumber brother can' pass stuff along. I know several guys that operate the same way. We view what we know as another bag of tools .

So, as far as "borrowing my special screwdrivers" goes I'm probably willing to visit one-on-one about loaning tools rather than leaving the bag open for just anyone to grab something. The tools have, after all, taken years to accumulate and cost a bunch of money.


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## CE1 (Dec 30, 2005)

JHezlep said:


> For the past year and a half 90% of my business has involved residential additions. The only problem I have is these can be time
> consuming since half of the job tends to require fishing wire in existing walls, altering circuits in the attic etc... Any one who has leared a trick or two and would like to share Im all ears. Im allways looking at a way to becouse more efficient in my work.


Here is a test for you. I ran into this a while back. How would you get the romex feed to the receptacle from the basement?

You guys that know hold off for a while to see what answers appear. :whistling 


View attachment 3134


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

This diagram is confusing me. Is there really a 12X12 beam on the outside perimeter? I would have expected a sill plate there. Maybe I have not been in enough old houses.

Rob


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

If that floor joist is a 2x10 then the 12x12 would be like 30x40, the scale is way off. Is the 12x12 the sill plate? Is there a band/rim joist/board? Does the floor really go under the walls bottom plate and are the floor boards 2x material? Is it a solid 12x12 or a boxed in beam, wood or steel?

Anyhow I would put a hole in the location for the outlet, use a versibit to drill down and then drill to meet it in the basement. Pull the wire through and use one of those Smart Boxes mdshunk mentioned above.

I am in the Chicago area, everything is in conduit, I have never used romex but have gotten other cable through rough areas. The real challenge would be getting an outlet in there with conduit.


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## CE1 (Dec 30, 2005)

robertc65 said:


> This diagram is confusing me. Is there really a 12X12 beam on the outside perimeter? I would have expected a sill plate there. Maybe I have not been in enough old houses.
> 
> Rob


Yes there was. Whoever built the house many years ago set the 12/12's
on top of a fieldstone fondation then tonge an groved the floor joists into the 12 x 12's. Then but the flooring right on top of that.
Now back to the problem. :whistling


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> If that floor joist is a 2x10 then the 12x12 would be like 30x40, the scale is way off. Is the 12x12 the sill plate? Is there a band/rim joist/board? Does the floor really go under the walls bottom plate and are the floor boards 2x material? Is it a solid 12x12 or a boxed in beam, wood or steel?
> 
> Anyhow I would put a hole in the location for the outlet, use a versibit to drill down and then drill to meet it in the basement. Pull the wire through and use one of those Smart Boxes mdshunk mentioned above.


I agree with Mickeyco, only I 'd like to add that I would measure carefully and use a large bit to increase the chances of converging the two holes. 

Rob


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

This is a pretty real life example in the question that us sparky's in the northeast bump into pretty regularly. Quite often, the "sill plate" is a big azz hewn log and the foundation is several feet thick, with much of it protruding indoors. For a hint, I'll say that there are four possible solutions that I can think of so far, and none of them involve a "large bit".


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

How about some highly trained termites with gps locators and two-way radios.


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## CE1 (Dec 30, 2005)

mdshunk said:


> This is a pretty real life example in the question that us sparky's in the northeast bump into pretty regularly. Quite often, the "sill plate" is a big azz hewn log and the foundation is several feet thick, with much of it protruding indoors. For a hint, I'll say that there are four possible solutions that I can think of so far, and none of them involve a "large bit".


I will agree that there is more than one solution, but there is really only one because it is the one that I used and it worked. What I did was fairly easy to do because I have used many times before with good results. This is called "Experience". What might work well for me might not work well for somebody else.

Hint: sometimes you need to "think outside the box" for solutions. :detective: 


P.S. sorry about the bad, not to scale drawing. I had to go by memory in order to do the drawing. :bangin:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Mikey... In a house like this, you're very unlikely to find 2x10 floor joists. More often, they're so sorely undersized that I hate to drill bored holes in them to run wires through. I resort to running them on the bottoms of the joists on running boards.


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## CE1 (Dec 30, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> How about some highly trained termites with gps locators and two-way radios.



Actually what you think is a 2 x 10 was a 3/4 round pole with a flat spot facing the bottom side of the flooring with an approximate size of a 4 x 4.
Also this house was at least 150-175 years old.


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## CE1 (Dec 30, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> How about some highly trained termites with gps locators and two-way radios.


Actually MICE work better. :thumbsup:


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

I've seen " 3/4 round pole with a flat spot facing the bottom side of the flooring with an approximate size of a 4 x 4" on house before as well as 3x5 joists, I just used the 2x10 arbitrarily. I was trying to get a better perspective between the lumber size, the first picture with the 12x12 kinda throws you off. 

Mdshunk, although I hardly run into them, I agree, I try to avoid boring holes in undersized old joists. Sometimes you wonder how those floors stay up, it's gotta be that old growth lumber.

I wouldn't drill the joists, but between them, you might even get from the top into the basement with a vesibit in one shot.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> I wouldn't drill the joists, but between them, you might even get from the top into the basement with a vesibit in one shot.


Maybe, maybe not. CE's giving you a huge hint in his last post (#16).


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

After the hint "MICE" I think I got it.

First you hire some highly skilled mice. 

Send one in to check it out








Send one in to drill








Send one in to clean up the mess








Then reward them with a glass of wine.









Done


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## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

Talk 'em into an outside recepticle as well.


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## RobertWilber (Mar 5, 2006)

reminds me of my mother's story about the guy who asks his wife why she cuts the legs off the turkey before she roasts it...
"I don't know, mom always did that ..." she says.
so she calls up mom ...
"Why do you cut the legs off the turkey before you roast it?"
"I don't know dear, grandma always did that ..." says mom.
so mom calls up grandma ...
"Mom ... why do you cut the legs off the Thanksgiving turkey before you roast the bird?"
"Why dear, we always had company for dinner at Thanksgiving, and a 30-pound bird wouldn't fit in that little oven with the legs still on ...."


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

Somehow I missed this entire post, like it grew overnight?

I got a tip; Don't drink the water in Mexico
And quit using my name Mickey


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Sparky Joe said:


> Somehow I missed this entire post, like it grew overnight?
> 
> I got a tip; Don't drink the water in Mexico
> And quit using my name Mickey


Be nice if both of you would quit using my oldest son's name :laughing: .


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

Which is it Sparky or Joe?

The name Sparky reminds me of that classic move 'Vacation'.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Sparky Joe said:


> Which is it Sparky or Joe?
> 
> The name Sparky reminds me of that classic move 'Vacation'.


Oops! I thought we were talking about the name Mickey. My bad :sad: .


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## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

mickeyco said:


> I just finished watching This Old House and at the end they showed a preview of next weeks show where it looks like they'll be addressing this issue, and from the preview it looks like a versibit.
> 
> On a side note, I'd like to ***** about the show and the show after it, Ask This Old House, who last week went out to help a guy with a "faucet problem" he had for 3 years where he couldn't get any water when he turned on the hot and cold simultaneously. Turns out the aerator was plugged, what type of idiot goes 3 years with a problem like that and doesn't check the aerator, and why was it on TV. Secondly I don't mind the "What is it?" segment, but could do with out the 3 stupid answers by the co-hosts, wish they would consolidate it into one stupid answer, say what it is and move on to something other than gardening. On a positive note they did use a ceiling fan rated box for a ceiling fan install. Back to This Old House, enough of the designers, decorators, and landscape designers, just show us the finished product and a little more carpentry, electrical, framing, plumbing, etc.
> 
> ...



I have not visit for a while. I don't see the best solution for that receptacle above the beam and stone wall? I have a solution of my own! I had gave a hint on it before.


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

mickeyco said:


> I just finished watching This Old House and at the end they showed a preview of next weeks show where it looks like they'll be addressing this issue, and from the preview it looks like a versibit.
> 
> On a side note, I'd like to ***** about the show and the show after it, Ask This Old House, who last week went out to help a guy with a "faucet problem" he had for 3 years where he couldn't get any water when he turned on the hot and cold simultaneously. Turns out the aerator was plugged, what type of idiot goes 3 years with a problem like that and doesn't check the aerator, and why was it on TV. Secondly I don't mind the "What is it?" segment, but could do with out the 3 stupid answers by the co-hosts, wish they would consolidate it into one stupid answer, say what it is and move on to something other than gardening. On a positive note they did use a ceiling fan rated box for a ceiling fan install. Back to This Old House, enough of the designers, decorators, and landscape designers, just show us the finished product and a little more carpentry, electrical, framing, plumbing, etc.



Boy talk about a rant on this old house.........

I enjoy the show and have both shows for the past 3 months on my computer (waiting right now for this weeks episode to be posted).

But I agree fully on how they dumb the show down so much my 8 year old feels like he has a chance building a house. 
I just watched last weeks episode and on "ask t.o.h." they spent 20 minutes teaching a couple how to mow their lawn. The biggest advice I received from the segment was "keep your lines straight because that looks nice"

Very frustrating.


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