# Like it or not, it's coming...



## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

srwcontracting said:


> Precision Floors, Correct me if I'm wrong, but you mentioned in a post on Wedi that you thought it was a waste of money to simply skip a step in the waterproofing procedure. I would imagine this system would be at least $300 more per shower project than doing it the standard kerdi way!
> Or is it because the name KERDI is on it that makes this system superior? (which I'm not sure If I'd disagree, if thats the case; really need to try it out myself)


Correct me if _I'm_ wrong, but you mentioned in that very same post that a 4x5 Wedi pan was $500....I'm pretty damned sure that the Kerdi board method will _still_ be quite a bit cheaper, using that as a bench mark....hell I get whole kits for a shower that size for less than that now.

Yeah the Kerdi name on it does mean something, as I am already familiar with and wholly trust Schluter products and philosophy. Not to mention the Kerdi board does not require penetration of the membrane to install. That's a big one for me.

Does the fact Wedi costs more and is not Orange make it superior 

If I also remember this was the gist of my posts in that thread


> Don't get me wrong, Wedi has some good products. I just feel like they are too expensive to achieve the same results.


Is that not true due to the introduction of Kerdi board?? I'll let you answer.


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## YesMaam27577 (Jan 15, 2010)

JazMan said:


> ......... We will see how is stacks up money wise to the alternatives. Are there any alternatives?........ :no:
> 
> Jaz


As others have mentioned, Wedi panels are one alternative. (I have no alliance with either company or product.)

About a year and a half ago, a HO/customer challenged me to significantly reduce the timing for a tile shower I was to build. Included in the challenge was a cash incentive.

On that same day, I found a local supplier that had a Wedi base and curb, and some Wedi panels. Second morning I installed the base, the curb, the drain, and the wall panels. That night I filled the base with water (for testing) and went home.

Third morning I started laying tile, using quickset thinset. And that afternoon I was grouting. On day four I cleaned up the haze and told the HO he could shower that evening.

And since the Schluter products are available in differing thicknesses, that would be a very good thing. Unfortunately, it will be (I'd bet) a few years before most local supply houses have the stuff in stock.


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

No arguement on the fact the Kerdi standard kits for a 4 x 5 shower is cheaper...(I would get a 4 x 4 kit and fill in the edges to make up the 12") I think the total cost on that is around $600. (wedi $1,150)

Angus - Is that floor in your pic the standard kerdi drain with the presloped foam pad underneath or is it a new one piece deal like wedi?


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

Nevermind angus, you mentioned what is was in an earlier post.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I will not speak poorly of Wedi because I'm not familiar with all their products.

However, I will say this in favor of Schluter products. They have been in production for over 2 decades and that amount of usage is something I feel very comfortable with. Also, if you've never attended one of their workshops, you should know their support with these products is unbelievable. They will train you with their products for free. They will even supply you with promotional materials. It's pretty hard to find a superior product.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I was in Centura this morning picking up and they were having a seminar tonight to introduce Kerri board.

I am looking forward to seeing it and will more than likely try it out.

I'm with Angus with regards to schluter. I think it is a very well run business that obviously spends a lot on r&d in addition to offering excellent "free" install courses.


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## Precisiongrout (Feb 17, 2010)

I am Kerdi Crazy where can I get some?


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Precisiongrout said:


> I am Kerdi Crazy where can I get some?


Try here.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Precisiongrout said:


> I am Kerdi Crazy where can I get some?


Won't be released until at least April.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Angus,Material costs?*

do you know what they are charging :sizes 
Thanks 
Brian


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

PrestigeR&D said:


> do you know what they are charging :sizes
> Thanks
> Brian



Pricing not released yet.

Thicknesses 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1", 1 1/2" & 2".

I don't recall dimensions. I know they said widths will be divisible by 16. Lengths looked to be 8'.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Right off, I can't see any advantage it would have over denshield. 
Will it be the same pricing as denshield or less?

I could see some advantage over making a foam bench though.
It'd be interesting to compare pricing of their material to make that bench vs. one of the prefab ones already on the market.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

It's completely normal to have doubts. The only real way to make an informed decision for yourself is to see it in person. 

Personally, I do see advantages. Actually, I feel there are at least 2 methods that are superior to using DensShield. Honestly, I see no reason to use DensShield at all. That's just me. But I have seen Kerdi-Board in person.

As previously stated, pricing has yet to be released.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

angus242 said:


> It's completely normal to have doubts. The only real way to make an informed decision for yourself is to see it in person.


What can I see in person that I won't be able to tell/see/realize from product literature/information? It looks like a type of foam board. The joints look like they have to be treated just like with denshield/cbu. Any cuts look like they have to be treated the same, such as in a soap niche. If one is concerned with waterproofing ability, denshield is just as waterproof as that kerdi. 

Like I said, the only advantage I see could be in building a bench, but there are premade benches/shelves/niches out there that are about butter and stick, so that may not be an advantage unless one want's custom dimensions.

This kerdi stuff seems like a much better marketed nobelseal.
What are the advantages it has over nobelseal?



> Honestly, I see no reason to use DensShield at all. That's just me.


what did you use before kerdiboard?



> But I have seen Kerdi-Board in person.
> As previously stated, pricing has yet to be released.


Are you a manufacturer's rep for schluter? Or one of their distributors?
I like their strips, but it seems as though the rest of their products are getting to be like avon/amway MLM.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

CO762 said:


> What can I see in person that I won't be able to tell/see/realize from product literature/information? It looks like a type of foam board. The joints look like they have to be treated just like with denshield/cbu. Any cuts look like they have to be treated the same, such as in a soap niche. If one is concerned with waterproofing ability, denshield is just as waterproof as that kerdi.
> 
> Like I said, the only advantage I see could be in building a bench, but there are premade benches/shelves/niches out there that are about butter and stick, so that may not be an advantage unless one want's custom dimensions.
> 
> ...



Yeah, because we are getting sooo wealthy off of educating you 

If you like the band, what's not to like about the rest of it? There are so many people out there that wish to be skeptical, just for the sake of it. No other reason than to be a pain in the ass :laughing:

If you don't see the benefit, don't use it, plain and simple. Those of us that do, attempt to let everyone else know, so they don't have to find out things the hard way. Now I'm an Amway rep . (actually on second thought, that's fine. Amway has some high quality niche market stuff, as well)

Have fun refusing to learn about anything that will make your life easier or more productive, just so you can be the 
"cool guy" who doesn't drink the koolaid.

_Some_ Koolaid is good. :thumbsup:


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

PrecisionFloors said:


> If you don't see the benefit, don't use it, plain and simple. Those of us that do, attempt to let everyone else know, so they don't have to find out things the hard way.


I don't....but am open to it. I sometimes use ditra, but that's rare as that seems to be more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. I'm not trying to be cool---because I already am.  
However, I've not heard anything as far as on verticals how kerdi is any better than denshield. I have read where "there's no reason to use it [denshield]", but I have nothing to weigh that against other than faith/belief.

The people being told to use kerdi on, say the shower walls with a plastic pan, aren't given any reason as to why other than it's "waterproof", something I've not heard of been a big issue on verticle homeowner shower walls and if so, denshield has the same waterproof quality as kerdi, but I'm sure at far less the cost. So if they are putting up a substrate (drywall let's say), why not just do it once and put up denshield instead of doing it twice?

I guess I'm being the "non believer" here because I've not seen anything of substance as far as a reason for using kerdi/ditra. Who knows, mebbe I'll learnd the benefits of kerdi over, say, nobelseal...other than a corporate school and networking/internet marketing support


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## StoneHorseTile (Dec 8, 2008)

CO762 said:


> I don't....but am open to it. I sometimes use ditra, but that's rare as that seems to be more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. I'm not trying to be cool---because I already am.
> However, I've not heard anything as far as on verticals how kerdi is any better than denshield. I have read where "there's no reason to use it [denshield]", but I have nothing to weigh that against other than faith/belief.
> 
> The people being told to use kerdi on, say the shower walls with a plastic pan, aren't given any reason as to why other than it's "waterproof", something I've not heard of been a big issue on verticle homeowner shower walls and if so, denshield has the same waterproof quality as kerdi, but I'm sure at far less the cost. So if they are putting up a substrate (drywall let's say), why not just do it once and put up denshield instead of doing it twice?
> ...


Im neither a non-believer, nor a kool-aid drinker. I tend to stick with things I know work, so I'm "slow" to move on new products. (see polybutelene) 

I don't use Denseshield because it makes my skin itch, either from an allergy, or because it's a fiberglass composite. AS far as I'm concerned, Denseshield and EasyBoard are inferior product. I'm leery of using anything on shower walls (or floors) that I can push my pinky finger through. Same with Kerdi or Wedi. I've never used either, although I might someday. I wouldn't put it down because I've never used either. However, if it's similar to EasyBoard, forget it. There's no tensile strength, whatsoever. If someone fell into a wall built with EasyBoard, it would very easily collapse. The question I have is- what strength does/will Kerdi walls have? Is it comparable to PermaBase, Wonderboard or Durock?


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

Kerdi Band is used to waterproof the seams right. It's installed with thinset. Thinset is porous and permeable by water is it not?


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

MattCoops said:


> Kerdi Band is used to waterproof the seams right. It's installed with thinset. Thinset is porous and permeable by water is it not?


We've been over this, Matt. It has been proven, due to the fleece, the wicking, or capillary action if you will, only extends approximately 1/2". 2" of coverage should offer plenty of insurance


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Have you used it yet Matt? What about you guys Stonehorse & 762? I understand your skepticism, I do. However, it's pretty damned tough to dispute a product you haven't even used, yet thousands have, and have had no failures with. I mean by all means....prove me wrong.


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