# Bright nails for exterior use?



## Grant9454 (Jun 29, 2013)

I was wondering if some of you guys could help solve my confusion here... Is it really okay to use non galvinized nails for things like cedar trim in exterior applications my boss has told me that it depends on wether or not you are nailing it into PT or not. But I always thought you used only galvinized or stainless for exterior applications?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Grant9454 said:


> I was wondering if some of you guys could help solve my confusion here... Is it really okay to use non galvinized nails for things like cedar trim in exterior applications my boss has told me that it depends on wether or not you are nailing it into PT or not. But I always thought you used only galvinized or stainless for exterior applications?


They won't corrode but they will rust... rust streaks


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

FramingPro said:


> They won't corrode but they will rust... rust streaks


Rust is a type of corrosion...


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Near the coast, I won't even frame without using at least an electro-plated galvanized nail. Anything in treated is minimum HD galvanized and anything exterior siding or trim is 316 Stainless Steel.


Inland, frame with brights, everything exterior is minimum HDG.


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## Grant9454 (Jun 29, 2013)

Okay guys thanks for clearing that up I didn't think bright nails had any sort of rust protection


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Grant9454 said:


> Okay guys thanks for clearing that up I didn't think bright nails had any sort of rust protection


Bright means uncoated...I think they have a light oil or wax coating just so they don't rust too bad before you open the box. :laughing:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Don't use galvanized on Cedar either.


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## Grant9454 (Jun 29, 2013)

Stainless would be the best for cedar?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Grant9454 said:


> Stainless would be the best for cedar?



Yes. If you are not going to use SS nails you might as well just use 8d sinkers. The result will be the same as using galvanized.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

griz said:


> Don't use galvanized on Cedar either.


Even stainless will streak/stain to some degree on cedar.


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## Grant9454 (Jun 29, 2013)

Do they make stainless steel fasteners for 15ga. Nailers?


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## Grant9454 (Jun 29, 2013)

And as for the streaking and staining will that be the grey color usually found on cedar or rust colored?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Grant9454 said:


> And as for the streaking and staining will that be the grey color usually found on cedar or rust colored?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Grant9454 said:


> Do they make stainless steel fasteners for 15ga. Nailers?


Yes. They will cost you more up front, but cost you less in the long run. Don't over think this, just use stainless.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Grant9454 said:


> Do they make stainless steel fasteners for 15ga. Nailers?


They're not cheap, especially the 316 grade, but it's all we use on exterior trim.

http://www.fastenerusa.com/products_c191778.html


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## Grant9454 (Jun 29, 2013)

Okay thanks guys! Guess I'll have to go try and find some stainless fasteners tomorrow hopefully some of the local yards will have them


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Grant9454 said:


> Okay thanks guys! Guess I'll have to go try and find some stainless fasteners tomorrow hopefully some of the local yards will have them


They absolutely should, just arch your back and hold your breath when you swipe your credit card. :laughing:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Grant9454 said:


> And as for the streaking and staining will that be the grey color usually found on cedar or rust colored?


Most Stainless will tarnish, more of a grey/black color. Cheaper grades of stainless have more iron in them and will stain more of a rust color.


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## Grant9454 (Jun 29, 2013)

I hate those purchases were you can feel the tears forming in your eyes


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Grant9454 said:


> I hate those purchases were you can feel the tears forming in your eyes


I hear that. Picked up a box of 1.5", a box of 2" and a box of 2.5" -16 gauge stainless gun nails. $300+ and maybe 6 pounds of nails?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

THW said:


> I know it wasn't directed at me but the ones I've seen have a coating, not sure if it's glue or what. They are labeled "bright" so that's what I've always called them. They definitely start rusting right away if left in the rain. And the head starts rusting the second you open the box...


I think we need some terminology here...

Bright - No coating
Common - Fat nail
Box - Skinny nail
Cement Coated - Coated in adhesive
Galvanized - Thin coating of zinc
Hot Dip Galvanized - Thick rough coating of zinc
Sinker - Coated box or common nail with textured head


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> I think we need some terminology here...
> 
> Bright - No coating
> Common - Fat nail
> ...


The other one we use alot is a double head, or scaffold nail, for form work. It's a Bright (no coating, so it can be removed easily) Common (Fat for heavy duty work where it doesn't matter much if you split the wood)


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## THW (Jun 19, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> I think we need some terminology here...
> 
> Bright - No coating
> Common - Fat nail
> ...


I guess I should have said there is no coating. I was specifically referring to gun nails. The stick nails seem to be slightly oily or something and that's the only coating I was referring to. Perhaps all these years I have imagined it and it is just the way the steel feels as it doesn't really rub off.

When hand nailing I use commons which are definitely brights as you describe them. Completely uncoated.

Either way, as far as the OP is concerned, I still stand by the fact that I prefer galvie (electro and dipped) or stainless for all exterior work.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

THW said:


> I guess I should have said there is no coating. I was specifically referring to gun nails. The stick nails seem to be slightly oily or something and that's the only coating I was referring to. Perhaps all these years I have imagined it and it is just the way the steel feels as it doesn't really rub off.
> 
> When hand nailing I use commons which are definitely brights as you describe them. Completely uncoated.
> 
> Either way, as far as the OP is concerned, I still stand by the fact that I prefer galvie (electro and dipped) or stainless for all exterior work.


If you go to blowes and buy a box of 16's you are probably getting CC, cement coated. That is what is generally (and should be) used for permanent framing. Drives easier and stays cause the glue heats up when you drive them.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

mudpad said:


> If you go to blowes and buy a box of 16's you are probably getting CC, cement coated. That is what is generally (and should be) used for permanent framing. Drives easier and stays cause the glue heats up when you drive them.


For some reason coated sinkers are nothing but a fairy tale around here, just spirals and commons.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> For some reason coated sinkers are nothing but a fairy tale around here, just spirals and commons.


Must be a Canuck thing. Us hillbilly ******** like driving skinny nails with waffle heads and glue that heats up when you drive them and then sets so you can't pull the damn things out, even if you want to.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

mudpad said:


> Must be a Canuck thing. Us hillbilly ******** like driving skinny nails with waffle heads and glue that heats up when you drive them and then sets so you can't pull the damn things out, even if you want to.


Ever try to pull a fat spiral?


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Ever try to pull a fat spiral?


Yea, you have to rotate as you pull.:thumbup::laughing:


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> I think we need some terminology here...
> 
> Bright - No coating
> Common - Fat nail
> ...


Not technical in definition.... but a good description...*Thanks*:thumbsup:

You're thin coated galvanized is often refered to down here as *electro *galvanized.... much less galvanized coating.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

So you guys never seen Green Vinyl Sinkers?...:whistling

Them and CC Sinkers about as common as sunshine out here...:thumbsup:


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

griz said:


> So you guys never seen *Green Vinyl Sinkers?.*..:whistling
> 
> Them and CC Sinkers about as common as sunshine out here...:thumbsup:


Griz... honestly did not get it..... Green Vinykl sinkers??????

Joke I missed... or a product I don't know....


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Griz... honestly did not get it..... Green Vinykl sinkers??????
> 
> Joke I missed... or a product I don't know....


No joke, they are the real mccoy....


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

For commons, ASTM recognizes only zinc coated and cement coated. That little bit of glue on it still gets it classified as a "bright":

"
TABLE 16 Type I, Style 10Common NailsA

Note—Aluminum alloy wire, stainless steel or steel wire, (bright, zinc coated or cement coated), altered or T-head, diamond or chisel point, round smooth or deformed shank, as specified. For use with mechanical drivers.
"


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Griz... honestly did not get it..... Green Vinykl sinkers?????? Joke I missed... or a product I don't know....


They have a green vinyl coating on them that is actually glue. When you shoot them or hand drive them the glue heats up and supposedly liquifies and when dry it holds itself in.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> They have a green vinyl coating on them that is actually glue. When you shoot them or hand drive them the glue heats up and supposedly liquifies and when dry it holds itself in.


Just sorta like the tan glue I guess.


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## steex (Feb 19, 2013)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> You're thin coated galvanized is often refered to down here as *electro *galvanized.... much less galvanized coating.


Most electro galvanized nails say on the box that they aren't suitable for exterior use.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

steex said:


> Most electro galvanized nails say on the box that they aren't suitable for exterior use.


This is from Portland Bolt 

Hot-Dip Galvanizing vs Electrogalvanizing (Zinc Plating)

Question: How does hot-dip galvanizing differ from electrogalvanizing?

Answer: Hot-dip galvanizing is a process of applying a protective zinc coating by dipping product in bath of molten zinc. Galvanizing is a favored method of protective coating due to its low cost, ease of application, and long maintenance-free service life. Generally applied at 830 to 870 degrees, the zinc will bond with the steel. It is the most common outdoor protective coating in use. When used on bolts, due to the thickness of the zinc coating, all galvanized nuts must be tapped oversize.

Zinc plating or electroplating is a process where zinc is applied by using a current of electricity. It is a thinner coating than hot dip galvanizing making it unsuitable for outdoor applications. Its advantages are its brightness and uniform color making it more aesthetically appealing.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

griz said:


> So you guys never seen Green Vinyl Sinkers?...:whistling
> 
> Them and CC Sinkers about as common as sunshine out here...:thumbsup:


Nope, we have box, common and spirals, but I rarely see box nails on a construction site.


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## THW (Jun 19, 2013)

All the strip and coil framing nails I've seen are HDG. Same goes for coil siding nails. But 15ga and 16ga and 18ga finish nails and staples I have are electro galvanized. 


I assume it's nearly impossible to dip a nail that small, still fit it in a glued strip, and shoot it from the same gun that shoots brights or stainless of the same size. Unless you reduce the thickness of the steel to the point of excessive loss of strength. 


Also roofing nails are electro galvanized.


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## Bencouver (Sep 17, 2009)

mudpad said:


> You mean a bright as in a steel nail with no coating? Or do you mean a common coated, with the glue coating?


bright as in steel nail with no coating for hand nailing. i think a lot of the coil nails are coated but not galvanized. it is very common to see the black streaks running down the side of houses being framed in the fall and winter.


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