# Radiant electric under tile...



## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

Can anyone recommend a brand based on balanced price to quality for electric floor warming systems under tile?

www.rubycon.us
Ruby Construction LLC 
Lancaster Kitchen Remodeling
Lancaster Bathroom Remodeling


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

My TCA manual has a cost comparison chart for different floor coverings.
But as for a radiant heat system under tile then I don't know.
But, if it was my job I'd read the customer this:

Solar Benefits
Ceramice tile is an efficient solar collector, and one of the best floor coverings to install for that purpose. 
In the winter, tile stores heat during the day and slowly releases it at night, warming your feet. 
In the summer, tile defuses some of the sun's rays by absorbing heat. Then in the evening, ventilation carries the heat away, cooling the tile. 
Consider installing tiles around wall heaters and radiators, around wood stoves, and under skylights to achieve the greatest benefits. 
If you are installing tile primarily for solar heat benefits, the best substrate is a thick bed of concrete. However, even installed over plywood, tiles will store and emit heat to some extent. 

Value
Ceramic tile looks so good that many people consider it a luxury. Actually, it is very affordable. Many ceramic floor tiles are about the same price as vinyl flooring. In addition, tile will long outlast vinyl installations, making tile the more economic choice as a floor covering. 
A tiled countertop will cost more than a laminate one, but will be more durable. A tile countertop will be less expensive than a stone or simulated stone slab. 
Tiling a wall can be more expensive than painting or paper hanging. But because of its water resistance, tiles are more practical in wet areas such as shower walls, tub surrounds, and backsplashes. 
An important factor when weighing the benefits of tile against other products is the return for your money. Floors, walls, and counters covered with ceramic tile, marble, slate, and related tile products are generally associated with luxury living. Therefore an installation that looks professional will certainly add to the appeal and value of your home. 


Cupan Custom Tile and Paint
Charlotte, NC
(704)668-1386
www.CupanTileAndPaint.com


P.S. If you decide to print this please leave my Company name, location, contact info, and website in there.
Pretty please, with a cherry on top.


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

:blink:


www.rubycon.us
Ruby Construction LLC 
Lancaster Kitchen Remodeling
Lancaster Bathroom Remodeling


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

Just stick to carpentry young lad.

You know, Jesus was a carpenter. Or so they say.

By the way, I don't know how well you are with electrical applications, but there is a code you need to follow when installing your radiant heating to the wall. Are you, or do you have, a licensed electrician that knows code?


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

anyone who has any knowledge of the subject and a decent attitude care to post?

www.rubycon.us
Ruby Construction LLC 
Lancaster Kitchen Remodeling
Lancaster Bathroom Remodeling


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

We did 7 radiant heat jobs in 2007. (But hey, good luck today "orson")
We sub out the baseboard and shoe moulding work to a homeless guy. He's the only one I know who can remove shoe moulding (or quarter round) without breaking it and nail, punch, putty and paint it back together when the tile is done.
He never fills out his 1099s though, hope the government don't criticize him.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

There are two varieties of electric under tile radiant heat systems, which have their own unique methods of installation.

*Mesh Mounted*--wires embedded or attached to a mesh, membrane, or nylon netting. There are usually stock sizes you can choose from--or order a custom size by giving them a measured drawing. Some of these also come in rolls 18" or so wide that you criss-cross the room with, slicing the mesh between the wires to make your turns.

*Cable systems*--these you lay the wire yourself, criss crossing the floor and pinning the wires to your backer. You then pour a leveler up to just above the wires. These systems offer the most flexibility and best coverage--but are the most labor intensive to install.

I've installed NuHeat's mesh mounted products on 8 projects over the last 5 years. I am installing one next week in a master bath that was ordered in a custom layout. My cost was about $1200 for the stat & the mat. (The programmable thermostats are quite expensive--around $250 I think). The mat is about 1/8" - 3/16" thick. After it's set, you have to level the perimeter where the mat doesn't cover.

I've also layed a few cable systems. The wires are much larger diameter with these systems (the conductors are probably similar, but they have more sheathing). You'll end up pouring at least a 1/2" of leveler to cover everything and get a flat surface--so transitions are a definite consideration when you're choosing which system to go with. 

There's a great deal more to consider, but I'm presently headed out the door to get things going for the day. 

I'll try to post more later, or you can PM me if you have a specific question.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

I would level the whole mat, not just the uncovered mat.
You don't want tile resting directly on top of radiant heat.


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

I use NuHeat, used it in my own bathroom. Nice getting out of the shower to warm tile. I personally like the mats, I did a couple jobs with the wires, what a PITA. The mats go on so much quicker and nicer.


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

Thanx guys, I'll check that brand out firemike, the customer is a pita about labor dollars but will shell out the dough for materials so I'll probably go w/ the mats.

www.rubycon.us
Ruby Construction LLC 
Lancaster Kitchen Remodeling
Lancaster Bathroom Remodeling


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

MattCoops said:


> I would level the whole mat, not just the uncovered mat.
> You don't want tile resting directly on top of radiant heat.


That's not correct with Nuheat. The mat is thinset to the backer, and the tile is thinset directly onto the mat.

You do have to level the perimeter where the mat doesn't cover, however.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

Are you sure the products you are using are made OUTSIDE of the US of A?


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

orson said:


> Can anyone recommend a brand based on balanced price to quality for electric floor warming systems under tile?


 
The brand skips my mind right now but the last few jobs I did came from Johnstone Supply. They were the matt type install and went really easy. Just remember to keep testing them for continuity as your working so you don't get too far ahead of yourself it you break a wire.


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

MattCoops said:


> We did 7 radiant heat jobs in 2007. (But hey, good luck today "orson")
> We sub out the baseboard and shoe moulding work to a homeless guy. He's the only one I know who can remove shoe moulding (or quarter round) without breaking it and nail, punch, putty and paint it back together when the tile is done.
> He never fills out his 1099s though, hope the government don't criticize him.


 
Do you proof read the stuff you write before you post? If so, does it make sense to you????? Cause how we got to homeless guys and 1099's from radiant heat is baffling me.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

How men go from contractors to typist boys is bothering me too brother.
Work hard. Play hard. Think smarter.
Expect the unexpected.
Escape Hell.

Now that my work day is done, I'm gonna go take my dog for a walk and shoot that Buck I seen roaming in my woods.

Boys carry pistols. Real men hold weapons.
"Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire..."
With that magazine of one round, [email protected]


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## Sportbilly (Oct 4, 2006)

Evidently I'm not the only one who has trouble following this. 

"Oh wait, I know nothing about what you're asking, but did you know elephants can walk on twigs without breaking them?

Well, I know a lot about what you're asking about, but I'm not going to tell you.

You don't follow me? Then you just go about your business as you were, I know what I'm talking about, and that's what matters."


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

"Frankenstein never scared me...."


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

"Marsupials do..."


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

"Cuz they're fast....."


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## fletcher.tile (Feb 13, 2008)

*Heating mats*

Hi orson. I've used nuheat and suntouch. I know that suntouch is significantly cheaper, but the nuheat is a more solid installation in my opinion. The leads with suntouch can be very thick, and installing over mesh while trying to burn thinset into underlayment is impossible. Use Nuheat if you can. I'd recommend mixing your thinset fairly loose when installing the pad itself. For the tile, skreet the floor not the tile itself, just make sure to skreet in the direction of the wires so you don't cut into them. Have a multimeter handy to check for continuity when you're done. Let me know if you decide to go suntouch, I may be able to help.

- Kel


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

If anyone cares, I install the cable systems from Warm Tiles. The tile guys hate cable systems, so I hear, since they have to slather on a leveling coat over them before they can tile. I don't know anything about that, however.

For the record, I've never subbed anything out to a homeless guy as far as I know.


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

Yeah, I checked with the tiling sub and he said basicaly no extra charge for mats but a SF upcharge for cable sytems, I think I'm gonna stick with the mats. Thanx for all the input folks, I'm gonna look at NuHeat and Warmly Yours as a backup.

www.rubycon.us
Ruby Construction LLC 
Lancaster Kitchen Remodeling
Lancaster Bathroom Remodeling


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## tdavis (Feb 1, 2008)

*Warm tiles---*

I agree with MD. the cable systems from warm tiles are great. 

The first one you do SUCKS. after that they are a cakewalk. I use a narrow crown stapler and their attachment pieces and it works great. just don't let that cable get out of hand. I string a piece of conduit between ladder rungs and roll it out as you go, pay attention to the marks on the wire and where you are in the space you are heating. 

Have MD rough in the wires and then make the connections and you are golden.


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## Bill_Vincent (Apr 6, 2005)

The very first system I ever installed was Warm Tiles. It was for an electrical contractor, and he SWORE I could install right over the wires and just add thinset. WHAT AN ABORTION!! He was happy with it. I stopped tiling after two courses, cleaned up the tiles, and thinset, and ended up pouring SLC first. I don't know if it was just my first radiant installation, or the fact that it went so badly, but it was also my LAST over cable heat installation.

orson-- as for systems, when it comes to Warmly Yours, there are several systems that are almost exactly the same. Warmly Yours, Suntouch, Laticrete's Farenheat System, and I forget the name of it, but there's a system at Costco that also looks exactly the same, and although I can't speak for the others, it was brought up in another forum that's predominantly homeowners that I go into, that someone did a little research, and found out that both the Costco system and Suntouch have the same parent company, so good chance they ARE the same system. Pricewise, I'd say your best bet will probably be the Farenheat system. Although the mats will cost you about the same as the other systems, one thing that Laticrete does differently is that they only offer the programmable control, instead of having a baseline control (which pretty much amounts to an on/ off switch), and then the upgrade. The good part is they sell the programmable control for the same price the others sell the baselilne, so you can offer an "upgraded" system for less money.

Something to look into, anyway.


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