# Propane prices



## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Are you guys seeing a sharpe increase in propane prices too? 2-3 weeks back was 2.99 gal, small bottle fill, today it is 3.79 and one place called was 4.61. Crazy that it has to go up so much . But guess they say it is because the oil fields are pumping oil in the lines now instead of the propane . Just what we need is another higher business expense to deal with. 

Guess need to start adding a surcharge to the job for that and fuel just like lot of places do.


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

We've had a lot of demand for all heating fuels, when you need it bad they stick it to you


----------



## Okiecontractor (Oct 15, 2012)

The prices went up to $4 here but they dropped yesterday back to normal. Maybe yalls will do the same.


----------



## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Okiecontractor said:


> The prices went up to $4 here but they dropped yesterday back to normal. Maybe yalls will do the same.


Well now that is an encouraging bit of news. :thumbsup:


----------



## stombaugh85 (Jul 23, 2012)

My supplier is only giving out limited quantities to customers. 200 gallon max. The news is talking about 4-6 dollars but I just got 200 gallons at 1.50.


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Guys around here are saying around $4/gallon. Thankfully, we contracted for our home & shop at $1.59. So far, Ferrellgas is honoring the contracts.

I will be getting the wood furnace hooked up to the shop next year & will be buying a new wood furnace for the house & getting it setup to run through my furnace.


----------



## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Here bulk propane and small bottle propane are to different prices. Use a fair amount to heat my work trailer and equipment during the winter.


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Randy Bush said:


> Here bulk propane and small bottle propane are to different prices. Use a fair amount to heat my work trailer and equipment during the winter.


I haven't even priced bottle fill. Had a 100# cylinder filled in the fall & it's still full. Got 3 BBQ bottles that need filled, but they're gonna have to wait till prices come back to normal.


----------



## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

I heat my house with propane. Last year was paying around 70 cents a litre. That's about $2.80 a gallon. Last month I got a bill for $720 for one month. It was $1.13 a litre. That's about $4.50 a gallon. I think I might be putting in a wood stove next year my self. That ridiculous. Ive heard its just a ploy to help get the xl pipeline approved. Don't know if it is true or not. Wouldn't put it past big business to pull a fast one to get something past. Here in Canada they have all but wiped out home heating with oil. We haven't built a house in 10 years that we installed an oil furnace. Insurance companies don't want oil tanks due to the high cost of a clean up in the case of a spill. Now that they have us all over the barrel so to speak, they can jack up the price.


----------



## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

They are high here from what I've read. 

I heat my house, water, floors, and shop with my wood boiler. 

Just got in from snowmobiling and I'm burning up, got the sliding door open.


----------



## catfish (Jul 19, 2007)

muskoka guy said:


> I heat my house with propane. Last year was paying around 70 cents a litre. That's about $2.80 a gallon. Last month I got a bill for $720 for one month. It was $1.13 a litre. That's about $4.50 a gallon. I think I might be putting in a wood stove next year my self. That ridiculous. Ive heard its just a ploy to help get the xl pipeline approved. Don't know if it is true or not. Wouldn't put it past big business to pull a fast one to get something past. Here in Canada they have all but wiped out home heating with oil. We haven't built a house in 10 years that we installed an oil furnace. Insurance companies don't want oil tanks due to the high cost of a clean up in the case of a spill. Now that they have us all over the barrel so to speak, they can jack up the price.


Why would the keystone xl have anything to do with it? Those tar sands are going to Houston and then to China.
The explanation I've heard is maintenance and some pipline breaks.


----------



## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

Possibly taking up all the shipping. I saw a thing that showed some guy in Texas. He said there was no shortage of propane, just no way to ship it. Said they were burning it off. They were having trouble shipping wheat because all the trains were hauling oil.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

We bumped from $2.46 to $3.94 in a matter of 20 days. Attended a neighborhood meeting regarding power outages on Friday - folks said they ere being limited to 150 gallons max delivery.

Rumors had it that mid-state thru Grand Rapids, prices had risen to or were approaching $6/gallon (ow!).

When has a distributor of ANYTHING missed an opportunity to raise prices?

Consumers Energy assures us that they will have the new natural gas lines in place this June-July - the`same ones promised back in 1985.

So, we shall see...

Oh, and GM will be offering their CNG pickup come May, so I may be up for one of those!:thumbsup:


----------



## Donohue Const (Dec 31, 2011)

Fall fill here was about $1.40 and a couple a weeks ago it was over $5.50
Back in the $3.50 range now


----------



## ChimneyHill (Apr 10, 2011)

Last year was about 2.50 per gal. Our last fill up 2 weeks ago was 3.80 per gal


----------



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

One way that I try to skin the cat regarding propane is to own my own 1,000 gal. tank. Here are some of the benefits ownership provides,first it allows me to shop out multiple suppliers,second the 1,000 gal. tank entices a provider to be willing to travel a touch further than usual. I do 99.9% of my heating with wood,the propane is only for hot water and the cook stove. Lastly,with that large of a tank I can take advantage of most companies summer fill program,then I'M good for over two years.


----------



## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

fjn said:


> One way that I try to skin the cat regarding propane is to own my own 1,000 gal. tank. Here are some of the benefits ownership provides,first it allows me to shop out multiple suppliers,second the 1,000 gal. tank entices a provider to be willing to travel a touch further than usual. I do 99.9% of my heating with wood,the propane is only for hot water and the cook stove. Lastly,with that large of a tank I can take advantage of most companies summer fill program,then I'M good for over two years.


You're a smart man.

I don't heat with propane, but if I did I'd install a 1,000gal tank as you did and own it. It's the only way you can beat the billionaires running the show at their game.


----------



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I heard talk of supply issues on natural gas supply in Dover, DE. Is that happening elsewhere in the northeast?


----------



## kubie (Oct 19, 2008)

over $5 here

back in dec we payed around $1.20


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

fjn said:


> One way that I try to skin the cat regarding propane is to own my own 1,000 gal. tank...... Lastly,with that large of a tank I can take advantage of most companies summer fill program,then I'M good for over two years.


We "owned" a tank for about 2 hours on an newly purchased income property 3 years ago.

But I have a question: Besides the fact that whatever propane distributor you use will insist that they provide the (certified) regulator, have you ever been given any guff about tank certification?


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

CO762 said:


> Your point would be valid....if the distributors were sitting on anything but empty tanks.
> 
> Natural gas comes from canada and they had a pipeline issue, but since then it's been fixed. The gas wells in CO/WY are being fought by the democrats. Propane is a rural thing because there's not enough density for anyone to run natural gas lines to, it's cost prohibitive. This is where your local small propane business or co-op comes in. They fill their truck, then go from house/farm to house/farm and fill the propane tank in the yard.
> 
> ...


I dunno, I'm thinking you are interchanging "distributors" with mom & pop dealers.

We currently use a mom & pop operation running out of my grandparents home town of Otisville. They have to drive 20 miles from their yard to mine. Most decent people I've ever dealt with.

Formerly, we bought from Northwest Energy - which was HUGE - and which is now owned by Suburban - the HUGEST. They have to drive 3 miles to my place. They are a dealer, and they also DISTRIBUTE.

Now to see if we are on the same page: Last week, 1.3 MILLION gallons were shipped by rail to Marysville MI. This explains why we have to sit for 15 minutes each day as 70-80 rail cars pass thru downtown Lapeer.

Somehow, that mop & pop outfit gets their propane - via 18 wheeler. 
Mom & pop charges a fair markup.

It is the DISTRIBUTOR, who takes on those millions of gallons, and it is the DISTRIBUTOR who can be found setting price to whatever they feel the market can bear.

http://www.dailypress.net/page/cont...tate-reps-talk-propane-shortage.html?nav=5003



> and last week more than 1.3 million gallons of propane were delivered via rail to storage facilities in Marysville, Mich.





> "*A lot of the propane dealers are required to pay cash upfront now with the supply shortage*," said Nyberg. "This program is meant to be available to propane dealers who could use that loan assistance to purchase more propane and get it to the end user.


Like so much in life, when enough money is thrown at a a problem, it miraculously goes away.

As far as natural gas goes, Michigan is ranked 12th nationally in production capacity, and in terms of storage/transport, we lead the nation. And we are something like 17th in crude oil!

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mpsc/reports/energy/energyoverview/


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Most "mom and pop" suppliers here buy their fuel on consignment therefore the supplier sets the price and they collect a X amount per unit. Too much risk paying the going rate to fill your tank and loosing your shirt when it drops in price.


[never thought I'd say this] You canucks are lucky that you don't have our government. You have energy that you can harvest for domestic use and also, for export. We're stuck with "conservation", so our price trend line is intentionally skyrocketing and our supply is intentionally becoming constricted.

It'd be funny if americans started to emigrate to canada. I could see it. I'd probably wind up in calgary.


----------



## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I dunno, I'm thinking you are interchanging "distributors" with mom & pop dealers. We currently use a mom & pop operation running out of my grandparents home town of Otisville. They have to drive 20 miles from their yard to mine. Most decent people I've ever dealt with.


If it's Hamiltons, you're correct. They are great to deal with. 

The one year I burned propane they brought out a tank and minimal fill in horrible weather. 

I just needed enough gas to get me by until I got my wood boiler running. 

I have since referred them to customers around my area and people farther south. They deliver and give great prices. 

I'm about 50-60 minutes from one of their yards.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

rex said:


> If it's Hamiltons, you're correct. They are great to deal with.
> 
> The one year I burned propane they brought out a tank and minimal fill in horrible weather.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup: Yup, them's the ones. All my neighbors have switched to them now, and we all regard Hamilton's highly.

Fuggitabout the price, they are just decent people.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I dunno, I'm thinking you are interchanging "distributors" with mom & pop dealers.


There's only the manufacturer and the end user. Everything between I view as a distributor, so there can be a few different ones. To me, the only difference in distributors would be wholesale vs. retail as there are some people that are in retail distribution that can bypass a layer or 2/3 of distributors and buy right from the manufacturer/producer.

I'm not familiar with the energy sector, so I don't know if there are any price breaks relative to volume purchased. But the market demand for that commodity has skyrocketed due to, well, winter, so all pricing goes up. The biggest problem to civilization and "progress" is a certain political ideology that has forced artificial shortages on the market in an effort to create the behavior outcome they demand.

I understand the volume differences between rail and truck, but at the same time, your local mom/pop can't afford rail, don't have the facilities, nor the consumption. It's the same reason why small town hardware stores don't buy a boxcar full of nails.

The propane shortage in MN/WI/MI was due to a pipeline breakage or something wasn't it? And that's been fixed? Not a good time for that with record cold.

So what are you saying exactly? This is all some plot by someonen? 
?


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

CO762 said:


> [never thought I'd say this] You canucks are lucky that you don't have our government. You have energy that you can harvest for domestic use and also, for export. We're stuck with "conservation", so our price trend line is intentionally skyrocketing and our supply is intentionally becoming constricted.
> 
> It'd be funny if americans started to emigrate to canada. I could see it. I'd probably wind up in calgary.



Conservation's not the right word. Environmentalist & conservationist are not the same thing. Conservation actually believes in harvesting resources.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> Conservation's not the right word. Environmentalist & conservationist are not the same thing. Conservation actually believes in harvesting resources.


Hey....I'm trying not to p*ss anyone off by mentioning the political reality.
Want to keep this in the GD section.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

CO762 said:


> So what are you saying exactly? This is all some plot by someonen?
> ?


No.

I'm saying mom & pop dealers buy from the distributor.

When you are shipping 1.3 million gallons a week to a single point, that "point" is a distributor.

"We", meaning Michigan, have the largest storage and transport capacity of all 50 states - so we are well able to meet "Demand".

But the distributor sets the price, based on "perception" of availability.

*And when has anyone ever seen a distributor pass up an opportunity to raise prices?*

It's neither good nor bad - just supply and demand.

And its the same whether its propane, gasoline, or Velveeta cheese.


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

CO762 said:


> Hey....I'm trying not to p*ss anyone off by mentioning the political reality.
> Want to keep this in the GD section.


I'm actually in agreement with you, just correcting the wording you chose. I'm a conservationist & don't like being associated with the description you gave in the other post.:laughing:


----------



## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Within a month prices went from 2.46 to 4.97 and then back down to around $3/gallon.
That's not a shortage. That is price gouging. They all know it and they all knew it was coming.
This is from a mom and pop dealer who I have worked for and have bought from for over a decade.
Ask the drivers. They know.


----------



## Foxit (Mar 2, 2013)

The HD near me tank exchange fill the 20 pound grill tank with 15 pound of propane to keep thier price looking good. A sticker on the self serve kios states so.


----------



## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

baerconstructio said:


> http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/CompareFuels.aspx
> 
> I was just looking at their coal gun last night. Looking to build a 4400 square foot shop to heat it with. I can get anthracite coal for about $60 a ton delivered.
> 
> So if I looked at it right 1 cord of oak would be about 240 gallons of propane.


I followed your link, and I came up with the following for home needing to produce 48 million btu/month and not considering efficiency (wood stove might be 85% efficient, propane furnace might be 92% efficient, coal stove I don't know):

2 cord wood/month=48 million [email protected]$200/cord delivered $400
524 gal propane =48 million btu @$3/gal delivered $1572
1.714 tons ant coal=48 million btu @$60/ton delivered $103

If I can heat the home with natural gas for $150/month, I'll go with that and not worry about carrying coal and feeding a stove and the same with the wood.

But the lesson to be learned here, is why do people use propane? I can understand why you want to have it at 30 cents/gallon. But when the price goes to $1.50, why don't you just install an electric water heater and range and heat with wood or coal?

Another point of interest is how do you get this coal for $60/ton delivered?

I have often thought that if a guy could concentrate on communities on rail lines, he could go into those communities and sell them a coal stove and get it installed and deliver bricks of coal on shrink wrapped pallets and put them up close to the door of the house somewhere and give him a hod. Give him 12 tons of coal to cover 6 months and charge him monthly and go back and pick up any leftovers in May and credit him back.

Obviously this will not work in Suburbia, but there are plenty of small towns on rail lines where people have tried burning pellets, corn, wood, everything and that stinky coal may be just the ticket. 

The key is to get a cheap supply, stoves that can burn it, and packaging (bricks, hods, and shrink-wrapped pallets) and have the stuff delivered to distribution points along rail lines.

My Menards will make a delivery with a boom truck or a donkey truck for $50 within about 30 miles of their store if I buy $1000. I could buy 12 tons of coal on shrink-wrapped pallets in October and have it set on a patio behind my house.


----------



## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

Apparently, people are working on delivering natural gas like propane. http://www.oscomp.com/could-natural-gas-be-delivered-by-truck-like-propane/


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

That would be good if they can figure it out. Propane is OK, but it's sort of the only option for mainstream people living in areas that aren't served by ng pipelines. There's a need, as this thread shows. 

A lot of people are using those wood boilers, but that can create a smell/haze. The best non traditional option I've seen are those wood pellet stoves. I think the fuel for that is about $200/ton.


----------



## baerconstructio (Feb 24, 2011)

cleveman said:


> Another point of interest is how do you get this coal for $60/ton delivered?
> 
> http://www.centercoal.com/price.asp
> 
> ...


----------



## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I used your quote of $60/ton delivered for anthracite. I think Lignite has less BTU's /ton but those prices from ND in your link are pretty low and attactive. I don't know what stoker coal is. I suppose lump coal is just however the hell it comes. 

It would be nice if some formed bricks were available, which would stack nicely and could be carried in a hod and not make a big mess. I think I was told in Germany that one of these bricks would burn all night.

What do you mean about the quotes being wrong?

I used to heat a 2000 sq ft house with about a wheelbarrow/day and I figure 16 wheelbarrows/cord, so 2 cords per month. Then I converted those BTU's over to coal and propane.

500 gal of propanes seems like a lot to heat a 2000 sf home. I priced it at $3, but I think if a guy was smart enough to buy ahead, he would get it for 1.50. But that would still be $750/month.

I figured 48 million btu's per month and propane has 91,600 btu's per gallon. Really comes out to 524 gallons, so I gave them a break.


----------



## intersound2005 (Jan 1, 2014)

Where can I buy coal for $60/ton? Anthricite here in central michigan is 325/ton undelivered. It just not worth it to pay that much.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

cleveman said:


> But the lesson to be learned here, is why do people use propane? I can understand why you want to have it at 30 cents/gallon. But when the price goes to $1.50, why don't you just install an electric water heater and range and heat with wood or coal?


Human nature. Most of us are inherently lazy and those of us that do go overboard are the exception. Most just use a single source because they have better things to do with their time than make redundant things. Same thing can be said as why most homeowners don't have a generator in their garage. Once they get burned, they (sometimes) work on redundancy for any future events.

Why they don't do anything now? I dunno, but I imagine between b*tching, some are doing something about it. Pain is a great motivator.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

OK, finished shovelling the driveway (again) and quickly searched and found this:



> Problems:
> 1. unusually high demand
> 2. Late last year, the Obama administration approved a plan by energy company Kinder Morgan Cochin LLC, to reverse the flow of a 1,900-mile pipeline and use it to transport to Canada gas produced from hydraulic fracturing in Texas in 2015.*It supplied 40 percent of the gas available in the Midwest. Suppliers have said that pipeline now operates only intermittently, but it is fully operational, according to Kinder Morgan officials. It supplied 40 percent of the gas available in the Midwest.
> 3. suppliers have discovered a new market hungry for natural gas in Europe, and have in the last year or two increased their exports, according to Steve Sargeant, vice president and general manager for Lakes Gas Company, a propane supplier with offices in Northfield.
> ...


Looks like he's concerned about kerosene? NG?
Funny, but their "war on" coal energy and greenies saving a snail (hydro electric) may, well, quoting "make energy prices skyrocket". That's the electricity.

I think they are also going after wood burners for their emissions too.

May have to burn dung pretty soon.

Rolling blackouts? Brownouts?


> Indianapolis Power & Light said it came close to its all-time high electric generation peak-load on Tuesday, reaching 2,850 megawatts at 8 a.m. That was just short of the all-time high of 2,971 megawatts reached on Jan. 16, 2009.
> http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...prices-cause-indiana-to-take-action-/5040321/


----------



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

According to the guy I talked to at alternate energy Anthracite is a hard coal. He stated the only two known places in the world it is found is Pa. and Russia. It supposedly is very clean burning. I do not know if there is a huge difference in the B.T.U.s compared with other types. There sure is a huge difference in price though. He stated picked up at a Pa. mine $150,at dealer $240 a ton. Soft coal at S.Indiana mines is $53 a ton loaded on your truck.


----------



## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Just saw a customer's bill...the propane delivery guy said they'll only deliver 100 gallons here currently, and that was at $4.50/gallon+taxes (the total bill was $485!) The customer said it was high but they told him that before they came!


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

> But the lesson to be learned here, is why do people use propane? I can understand why you want to have it at 30 cents/gallon. *But when the price goes to $1.50, why don't you just install an electric water heater and range and heat with wood or coal?*


I am real sure this varies by region, but historically, in this area, cost to heat water always went from cheapest to most expensive in this order:

natural gas
propane
fuel oil

Approx 15 years ago, when this place was remodeled, we took out the fuel oil furnace and woodstove (built by yours truly, super efficient), and went to hi-efficiency propane furnace and all propane appliances.

We did that in part, because the cost of a delivered cord of wood had risen IIRC, from $45 to $120, and even though its cheaper again, no one around here is interested in cutting and stacking wood any more - we got OLD, we don't like the constant dusting (wood boilers weren't as common then), I insist on gas for cooking range, the fast recovery of gas heaters, and did I mention we are getting OLD?


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I am real sure this varies by region, but historically, in this area, cost to heat water always went from cheapest to most expensive in this order:
> 
> natural gas
> propane
> ...


I'm half your age and the only involvement with heating my house I want to deal with is setting the thermostat to a comfortable temp and leaving it there.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

fjn said:


> According to the guy I talked to at alternate energy Anthracite is a hard coal. He stated the only two known places in the world it is found is Pa. and Russia. It supposedly is very clean burning.


Wyoming coal (powder river basin) is very low sulfur compared to coal from back east, about 1/3 as much IIRC. The NG exploration of WY and CO are also great sources of gas. Both are subject to constant lawsuits by liberal/progressives and since 2008, not approving leases on govt land (which are large areas out west).

The problem we have is purely self inflicted--we have an artificial constriction on supply of the energy we use. This goes for all types of practical, economically feasible energy to include, ng, propane, coal, hydro-electric, and crude oil--including the lack of refineries to make different grades of fuel from the crude (due to lawsuits and the epa).

The energy that we don't harvest in our own country is our own fault.
As energy is a fungible good, energy that we don't allow into our country, or make more difficult/costly to do, will go elsewhere. This is why our fuels are going to europe and asia--while we sit here and b*tch about not having any.

In a free country, the populace gets the governance they deserve.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I insist on gas for cooking range


Just because you've gotten old, that doesn't mean you are uncivilized.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

CO762 said:


> Just because you've gotten old, that doesn't mean you are uncivilized.


:thumbsup:

Yah, until we lose power, and realize that that fancy stainless steel range with dual ovens has a snap-snap-snap burner igniter & depends on 110v...

...and there's no matches in the house - no even a ciggy lighter

...but then genius arrives in the form of remembering my propane torch also has a built in igniter - and we are saved.

:no::no:


----------



## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> I'm half your age and the only involvement with heating my house I want to deal with is setting the thermostat to a comfortable temp and leaving it there.


The American Dream


----------



## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

CO762 said:


> A lot of people are using those wood boilers, but that can create a smell/haze.


Correct, but a properly operating wood boiler creates virtually no haze or smoke, the exhaust is clear. 

That being said, we all know not everyone will maintain their burner like they should, so it will smoke. I wouldn't advocate a wood boiler in town, but in the country where there is a little more space, I think they are great. You can heat your house, your hot water, and even your pool with them.

Not recommended for those who don't like to work for their heat though.


----------



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I love going down to my 80 degree wood furnace room...toasty. 

Makes the work worth it when you can get home and crank it up to 76 on a cold day and know you aren't getting raped by the energy company. I cut my own wood so all I have in it is what i takes to cut/split it.

I do see what Eric is saying. Time is money and when you can be making your hourly rate, screwing around with wood doesn't make sense.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> ...but then genius arrives in the form of remembering my propane torch also has a built in igniter - and we are saved.


 I use those for fire roasting my veggies.

Just think of the hits all the non homeowners are taking that use propane.
How many forklifts run on propane? There's a whole lotta hurt out there.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Spencer said:


> Time is money and when you can be making your hourly rate, screwing around with wood doesn't make sense.


And throw in the material costs as some places wood is very very cheap while in others, no. A lot of rural people also sell split wood because there's a lot of woods around while someone in say, south dakota is SOL.


Depending upon the area, wood pellet stoves are popular because they're a byproduct and that fuel is metered out very efficiently. Senior citizen lady down the road has lived here for generations and she has a garage full of wood scraps the pallet company delivers and stacks for her--for free.
Sometimes it pays to live a good life.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

CO762 said:


> I use those for fire roasting my veggies.
> 
> Just think of the hits all the non homeowners are taking that use propane.
> How many forklifts run on propane? There's a whole lotta hurt out there.


One of the options a homeowner usually has, is to "contract" with a supplier for a given 1-2 year period, which locks in the price, and also puts them on automated fill schedules.

So, while signing a contract in September to buy all my propane at $2.60 a gallon may be more than the cash price of $1.90 at another dealer, it would also be a helluva lot cheaper than the $4.50 cash price during the recent "Shortage".

The downside is you are committed to a contract, you end up sitting on and paying for more fuel in the summer than you want to (how about we use that $1200 to pay for new tires on the beater?).

But after this winter, between propane prices, power outages, busted (and expensive) propane furnaces and warm morning stoves, and busted generators, I am seriously rethinking how I want to fade in my twilight years.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I am seriously rethinking how I want to fade in my twilight years.


Ain't most of us. I moved for a variety of reasons about 5 years ago.
A lot happier now, better off and more stable. We as a nation are on our predictable, downhill slide and as things become more interdependent, less and less will be in our personal control. That's my brain fart.


----------



## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

Another thing to keep in mind is that soon, depending on your location, there will be more ash trees for firewood than you can shake a stick at.

That time will start this summer in Iowa and the word is that there will be no open burning allowed. If you want to cut down your own trees, there will be no control over what you do with the wood, other than you can't transport it out of state.

The municipalities are going to chip it ALL up into some size which guarantees that the bugs are killed as well. I'm not sure why it is important to kill the bugs since they will be everywhere anyway. Then they will have to pay to have the chips hauled off to landfills and pay the landfills to take the chips.

I mention this because I think there will be more ash firewood available than you can shake a stick at, and all for free. If you have a place where you can store wood and tarp it, you could build an 8' high fence around your property, 4' wide.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

cleveman said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is that soon, depending on your location, there will be more ash trees for firewood than you can shake a stick at.


We are about 8 years into the ash borer problem. If you look around my area, where we have a lot of woodlot and fence row type standing trees, it honest to God looks like a war zone. It is also the primary reason why we have had 27 power outages in the last year, IMO.

If a oak or maple tree dies standing, it may be 6-10 years before it starts dropping major branches. This ash wood - 2 years, and it rots enough to bust off at the main trunk. Behaves more like sumac than a hardwood.

It heats well, but it is very much a different wood than oak.


----------



## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

CO762 said:


> It's his business and he can do whatever he wants. This is what I mean when I say propane dealers aren't some large, faceless group of greedy old men wanting to cause pain on everyone and get every last time out of ever person. Most are like these people:
> 
> http://www.koppyspropane.com/about.php
> 
> ...



You must not have AmeriGas near you.
Hard to believe.


----------



## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

On 2/11 I paid 3.99 gal.

I heat my first floor in slab radiant with a Tarm wood boiler.
I use propane for H/W and heat on my second floor.


----------



## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

TimNJ said:


> On 2/11 I paid 3.99 gal. I heat my first floor in slab radiant with a Tarm wood boiler. I use propane for H/W and heat on my second floor.


You have a wood boiler and don't have it hooked up to your water heater?

Heater must be in a bad spot to pipe to?


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I pay 13.00 to fill my tank. I usually fill it twice a year, depending on how much I BBQ.


----------



## apkole (Mar 18, 2006)

Just took delivery of 95 gal @ 3.33. We use propane for hot water and cooking. Heat comes by way of a Harmon PF100 pellet furnace, plumbed into our existing HVAC system. We made this move about 2 1/2 years ago . . . no regrets. Takes about 7 - 8 ton @ $200/ton for the heating season. 

Our propane supplier was proposing the usual 11 mo budget plan, but the total was looking at $4500/yr. Admittedly, we purchased this energy hog, built in '92, with cathedral ceilings, large casement windows, bay window, patio doors, and five holes, er, ah, skylights . . . 

At the time of purchase, I figured about a 2.5 year pay back on the unit cost, install and cost of pellets. I remain convinced of the decision we made . . . so long as my 60 year old body is able to navigate stairs to the basement and heft the 40 lb bags. Pellets are purchased during the summer months on an early buy program, and stored in the mechanical room within a few fit of the furnace. 

I considered wood, as we heated with it in the farmhouse I was raised in. However, we also had 50 acres of wood lot with oak, maple, cherry among the species. A forester was engaged to manage the lot. With no ownership of such a piece of property, and not wanting to face the wood harvesting and processing requirements, a somewhat easier path was taken.

So far . . . so good . . .


----------

