# natural thin veneer



## natural1 (Aug 30, 2007)

I have done a fair amount of stone laying recently with type s and latex additive, specifically laticrete. In my opinion the glue makes it stickier. So I do not see a problem with a stiff mix with latex additive. You may, however, need to butter the backs of the stone for best results.

If you are stacking the stone from the bottom up, is sliding really an issue using thin set? I've tried using thinset on faux stone and the stone would not stick well but we were trying to lay it from the top down.


----------



## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Well, it's not faux stone I'm dealing with. It's sawn natural stone. The other issue the tile guys brought up is that most thinset is only rated for 12# per sq. ft. This stone weighs in at 16 or so.


----------



## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Ask your tile guys the max weight of adhered veneer. Also ask them how type s has more adhesion than thinset. Does the extra aggregate help? You've received some good advice here. I'm sure you want the best job, but no matter how many times you ask you're gonna get the same answers.


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

16# is over what is considered to be an adhered veneer. For faux, it is 11#, for thin stone it is 14# per SqFt. What is your backup, and will you be able to throw in some corrugated wall ties?


----------



## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> 16# is over what is considered to be an adhered veneer. For faux, it is 11#, for thin stone it is 14# per SqFt.
> quote]
> What is your source for this. Everything I've found says 16 or 18. I could install ties, but this stuff is marketed as adhered veneer. This stuff (sawn natural veneer) is all over the place these days, and there is no way most of it is under 14#/sq.ft. At 1"-1.5" thickness, that would put weight at 112#-168#/cu.ft. Most stone around here runs 160-180/cu.ft. Obviously there's no way to be exact. (For example, thin veneer with mortar joints would count as 10% lighter than drystack style, as the mortar does not count.) I think that the thinset limitations are warranty related, and don't necessarily have anything to do with actual adhesion limits. I'm sure that in the real world, thinset is far more capable of carrying weight than type S, just by virtue of being able to cure completely under these conditions. I'm also sure that mortar manufacturers do not cover these thin veneer situations with any kind of warranty, making the point moot. I personally think that adhered veneer is not masonry, that is expectations of long life, inherent stability, etc. are not realistic. But... this is what the people want. (end of rant).
> My point in all this is to try to see how others see this stuff. I do think I've gotten good advice here, and I'm not taking that likely. I'd like to provoke discussion. What's the best way. Is there a better way. etc. etc.
> ...


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Here is a cite from 1997 Masonry Codes and Specifications from the Masonry Institute for the overall adhered veneer:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0a...hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result

For the faux, I have to rely on manufacturer literature, which will of course be biased to what ever they can produce, which is less than 12# per Sq Ft.

I considered how to mechanically attach your stone today in a practical and cost effective manner, and if asked I would recommend against it. 

As for backbuttering, it is recommended by all specifications. A possible idea would be to butter with a slurry instead of the mortar.


----------



## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks for the link, I haven't see this one yet. Is there any other specs regarding weight per sq. ft. that you know of?


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

There is one for various backups, but I can't cite it offhand.


----------



## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks everyone for your help. We are in the midst of this job. We've had to stick with buttering each stone, as most advised.:thumbsup: We are using a mortar called Stonehold, by Italcementi, who also make Brixment. It is polymer modified mortar mix, and I couldn't recommend it more for this application. Much stickier and better initial bond than S type.

As it turned out, the most challenging part of this job is the scaffolding, not the stone work. It is, without doubt, the most extreme building site I've worked on. I would post some pics, but I'm afraid the safety types would be on my a$$. I'll try to get up some pics of finished product after a while.


----------



## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Alright... Im doing a larger saw cut natural veneer job, and Im still in the dark on what was decided. 

Do I scratch coat with thinset, let it dry, then butter each stone with thinset? Or do I scratch, then butter with thinset, and stick to wall while scratch coat is still wet?


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

One thing I can tell you is that scratch, mortar bed, and thin sliced natural stone does not work. I am involved in a redo of 9000SqFt where at least half has fallen off the wall.

Contact your local Laticrete salesman, and ask if has any copies of, "Direct Adhered Ceramic Tile, Stone and Thin Brick Facades", by R.P. Goldberg, AIA, CSI available. He gave me a couple of copies, and it has some very good information on the subject.


----------



## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

I'll have to look into that. Meanwhile, scratch first and let it cure. Definitely give a modified mortar a try. I'm using "stonehold" by Italcementi.


----------



## eekie34 (Jun 14, 2008)

I use stonehold as well. Never a problem.


----------

