# 4-Way Dozer Blade Functions



## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Well, I thought I knew everything, but now I'm confused. :confused1:

On a 4-way, what way does it tilt? Forward and back, or side-to-side tilt?

In other words, can you put one corner deeper than the other, or no?

I know I don't want a 6-way. I need something heavier-duty.


Thanks for any help.


Delta


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

IIRC 4 way is up down, left angle right angle; 6 way tilts side to side so you can angle the blade differently than the tracks.


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm pretty sure a four way is up/down and blade tilt.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

rustyjames said:


> I'm pretty sure a four way is up/down and blade tilt.


:blink:


Well, I know it's a blade tilt.

What I don't know, is it is forward/backward (top edge tilts toward/away from you), or side tilt ( right/left corners tilt up/down).

Delta


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

Last time I tried to figure that out, I went to youtube and searched Bulldozers for sale


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> :blink:
> 
> 
> Well, I know it's a blade tilt.
> ...


Tilt, as in the corners up and down. The other way we (at least in NJ) refer to as angle.


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## SouthonBeach (Oct 18, 2012)

4 way blade is up/down & left/right. No corner up or down adjustment. 
4 ways are made for heavy pushing. 6 ways are made more for finishing.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

rustyjames said:


> Tilt, as in the corners up and down. The other way we (at least in NJ) refer to as angle.


Well, that would explain a lot of my confusion. When I read "angle", on these heavy equipment forums or for sale ads, I'm thinking angle as in one top corner moves farther away, like on a DOT plow truck. I know you can get that function on a 6-way, so I was bum-fuddled.

Thanks.



Delta


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

SouthonBeach said:


> left/right.


Are you talking "swing"? As in the blade other than 90 degrees to the tracks?


Delta


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

in the seat, looking at the blade....

horizontal axis goes left right or up down on a 4 way.

six way either corner will tilt up or down also.

on a four way the angle that the tracks are setting can determines the tilt angle.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

O.K. Thanks, Griz. I think I got it.

So on a 4-way, you can "swing" the blade to move dirt to the right or left, but you couldn't ride the edge of a road and cut the ditch on the side like a grader, for example.

I think that's it.


Delta


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> O.K. Thanks, Griz. I think I got it.
> 
> So on a 4-way, you can "swing" the blade to move dirt to the right or left, but you couldn't ride the edge of a road and cut the ditch on the side like a grader, for example.
> 
> ...



yup...


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I just found this video on YT, and it's showing a "4-way" dropping the corners.

Is this a non-standard definition of 4-way?







Delta


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## SouthonBeach (Oct 18, 2012)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Are you talking "swing"? As in the blade other than 90 degrees to the tracks?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes swing. Like a snowplow. When you're pushing you can have material going off the left or right of the cut.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I just found this video on YT, and it's showing a "4-way" dropping the corners.
> 
> Is this a non-standard definition of 4-way?
> 
> ...


So I looked it up and it's both, 4 way is not a standard definition. What's important is the blade type, S/U/Angle/PAT.

PAT does em all. (6 way)

Angle can side cast materian but can't tilt to align the blade differently from the tracks. (4 way)

S/U/SU Blades can't side cast material but they can lift/drop one cylinder to change the cut angle differently than the tracks. (4 way and 2 way)


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> 4 way is not a standard definition.


That's the conclusion I was coming to. Reading guys explain it on heavyequipmentforums last night was just confusing me more.

By the way, what are S/U/SU blades?


Delta


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> That's the conclusion I was coming to. Reading guys explain it on heavyequipmentforums last night was just confusing me more.
> 
> By the way, what are S/U/SU blades?
> 
> ...


S is straight, U is U shaped so less material spills off the side. Su is in the middle.

Funny couple months ago I knew nothing about dozers but my Uncle just picked one up and we chatted at legnth about it.


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## Moxley-Kidwell (Jan 28, 2011)

4 way is up/down the entire blade and up/down on the corners. 6 way is the same but includes angle so each end of the blade will get closer or further away from the tracks like a snow plow.

The heavier dozers have what is called a u blade mostly just to push stuff out front and to keep material in from of the blade. 6 way blades are straight and allow material to easily slide off the sides.

If you are looking at a machine I would look for a 6 way unless you need a really big machine. Lot easier to grade with a 6 way. Whats it going to be used for?


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Moxley-Kidwell said:


> 4 way is up/down the entire blade and up/down on the corners. 6 way is the same but includes angle so each end of the blade will get closer or further away from the tracks like a snow plow.
> 
> The heavier dozers have what is called a u blade mostly just to push stuff out front and to keep material in from of the blade. 6 way blades are straight and allow material to easily slide off the sides.
> 
> If you are looking at a machine I would look for a 6 way unless you need a really big machine. Lot easier to grade with a 6 way. Whats it going to be used for?


I've looked at the 6-way, but I'm going to be using the machine for logging and stump pulling, so I need something a little heavier duty. I'm looking at either a D6 or D7. If it tilts, and I can re-cut the ditches on the roads at the ranch as well, that'd be a bonus.

I can do a passible lob grading a road with a skid steer , so a dozer will be even better.

Thanks for the assistance.


Delta


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I've looked at the 6-way, but I'm going to be using the machine for logging and stump pulling, so I need something a little heavier duty. I'm looking at either a D6 or D7. If it tilts, and I can re-cut the ditches on the roads at the ranch as well, that'd be a bonus.
> 
> I can do a passible lob grading a road with a skid steer , so a dozer will be even better.
> 
> ...


Can you easily rent a grader for roads? Water bars are important to the road system. Road maintenance is a constant battle against water damage, at least in wet conditions, which is where the trees grow best.

Are you planning on skidding logs with the dozer? (If so that is going to be slow going vs a wheeled skidder that can move far more rapidly for faster turns.) You can walk the trees out to a deck like location with the feller buncher.

Why pull the stump? Blow that sucker up! More fun :laughing: 

HUG THE TREE before you cut it :thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I've looked at the 6-way, but I'm going to be using the machine for logging and stump pulling, so I need something a little heavier duty. I'm looking at either a D6 or D7. If it tilts, and I can re-cut the ditches on the roads at the ranch as well, that'd be a bonus.
> 
> I can do a passible lob grading a road with a skid steer , so a dozer will be even better.
> 
> ...


Get a 6 way with a telescopic push frame.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

A six way on a D-6 or D-7 will be plenty tough enough for logging and stump removal.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> Can you easily rent a grader for roads? Water bars are important to the road system. Road maintenance is a constant battle against water damage, at least in wet conditions, which is where the trees grow best.
> 
> Are you planning on skidding logs with the dozer? (If so that is going to be slow going vs a wheeled skidder that can move far more rapidly for faster turns.) You can walk the trees out to a deck like location with the feller buncher.
> 
> ...



I might buy an old grader. I've seen them for 5 to 8 grand for an older one. It would work fine for a couple times a year. 

I'll use the winch for pulling logs up. It's more of a selective cutting, along with some of the trees coming up some pretty steep slopes. There is also a fair amount of general grading that will be done, for a variety of reasons.

I'll be pulling stumps in areas where future construction will take place.

Where in NorCal are you? I'm up in Humboldt.







tgeb said:


> A six way on a D-6 or D-7 will be plenty tough enough for logging and stump removal.


Do they make them? I've never seen a 6-way on anything bigger than a D4.


Delta


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Well, if the Mods are OK with it, I'm gonna kind of turn this into a general Dozer question thread.

I have a lot of operating hours under my belt, but mostly with excavator, backhoe, loader, tele handler type stuff. I haven't run ton of road-building or logging type machinery.

So I'm getting conflicting information on the elevated sprocket/Hi-Drive system. Some say that it'll throw the track on steep slopes while turning in reverse and some say the Hi-Drive increases traction. Every tracked skid-steer I've ever used had a Hi-Drive, and I've done some pretty fancy maneuvering with them. A skid-steer ain't a D7, though. :laughing:

So what are some opinions on Hi-Drive vs. conventional?



Delta


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Do they make them? I've never seen a 6-way on anything bigger than a D4.
> 
> 
> Delta


I don't know, I haven't been around a big dozer in quite a few years. :laughing:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

tgeb said:


> I don't know, I haven't been around a big dozer in quite a few years. :laughing:


Well, I was wrong. I just found one on MachineryTrader. 2000 something D7 with a 6-way. I think in the later models, you can get them. 

Prolly out of my price range, though. :laughing:

I'll probably end up going for an older D6, with a 4-way, and an even older grader for the roads. 



Delta


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I might buy an old grader. I've seen them for 5 to 8 grand for an older one. It would work fine for a couple times a year.


Makes more sense to get a 6 way then buying a broken down old grader, that we will call the money pit. I would recommend renting one if needed. It will take a decade to recoup the costs otherwise. 



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I'll use the winch for pulling logs up.


So you will be hand cutting trees on steep slopes? Risky business! I would assume some of those trees are massive. There is a lot to know about logging. Please be careful, my uncle was killed logging while skidding logs cross slope in the winter. My cousin wound up with over 400 stitches from a kick back. Winch cables are extremely dangerous. The list of friends and family injured or killed logging is extensive. 

As of last week we finally got a line logger in to log some of our steeper sections where a feller buncher can't go. We had a fire rage thru in 2015, fortunately only taking out 600 acres of trees, but there wasn't a line logger available, so we wrote them off as a loss. Blued pine is worth nothing, and dead timber is bad for bark beetle infestations; we loose :sad:



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> It's more of a selective cutting, along with some of the trees coming up some pretty steep slopes.


Do you know Forestry? I have been learning for most of my adult life and still don't know enough. We employ a Forester to help us run the logging outfit, mark trees, deal with permitting, road maintenance, and all the other hassles. We are a Certified Tree Farm, so eco logging aka selective is the right way to do it. Leave the biggest trees for propagation, taking only what is good for the land. None of this horrible clear cutting crap! 

Fortunately my sister is an invasive species specialist, and we have been working to keep the land semi clear of some nasty plants, and insects. The Oregon Department of Forestry has been using our land as a basis for the last 25 years, and they were happy to certify us as a tree farm. Right now "certified" doesn't mean much but hopefully in the future the sustainable practice pays off. 



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> There is also a fair amount of general grading that will be done, for a variety of reasons.


6 way! Those water bars in your area are going to be VERY important. Lots of rain. Carry a shovel and while touring be prepared to stop and hand dig them if needed. Water bars will keep a road from getting taken out. 



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I'll be pulling stumps in areas where future construction will take place.


I haven't done trees of your size, but we did take out a cherry orchard. We found hitting them with the blade a few times usually worked, and if not we turned around and used the ripper on one side, then went back to using the blade to push them out. 



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Where in NorCal are you? I'm up in Humboldt.


Our home is in the North Bay, but our farm is in Eastern Oregon. Our Forester is headed to SoCal via 101, so I told him to visit "Tall Trees", as there is nothing else like it. He went to school there in Humbolt, but never visited that grove, and to me who lives near some of the large redwood groves they just doesn't compare, not even Lady Bird grove. Of course Lost Coast Brewery is on the tour list


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Well, I was wrong. I just found one on MachineryTrader. 2000 something D7 with a 6-way. I think in the later models, you can get them.
> 
> Prolly out of my price range, though. :laughing:
> 
> ...


All of the 6 way blades with telescopic push frames seem to be in the past 25 years.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> All of the 6 way blades with telescopic push frames seem to be in the past 25 years.


That's what I'm finding. And that they are kinda out of my price range.



Peter_C, good info there, thanks.

I have several personal friends, and a few acquaintances killed in logging accidents. Our project is a quite a bit smaller, as the ranch was logged about 40 years ago, and then basically left. It needs a ton of remedial work, and most of the trees are smaller, like 36" diameter average. Still, caution must be exercised. 

I'm not a forester, I'll just be the equipment operator on the project. And as an EMT, the unofficial safety supervisor. :smile:

Delta


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Our project is a quite a bit smaller, as the ranch was logged about 40 years ago, and then basically left. It needs a ton of remedial work, and most of the trees are smaller, like 36" diameter average.


Eco logging can allow a 10-20 year cut rotation. Although the trees won't be 36"  If you got redwoods that is a whole other ballgame.

I am not familiar with timber markets in Cali, but carefully watch the timber futures. Profits are thin, and holding the logs on deck for a few months can make a big difference. Also pay attention to government funded programs for things like thinning. The gov will also assist with putting a stewardship plan together, which can include a grazing plan, water plan, etc. These days letting livestock wander around water sources is frowned upon.


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## SouthonBeach (Oct 18, 2012)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Well, if the Mods are OK with it, I'm gonna kind of turn this into a general Dozer question thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My understanding of the hi-drive is it was made to keep the final drive train out of the muck and crap. 
Will it throw a track doing fancy maneuvering, that's probably going to depend on the condition of the rollers and rails more then anything. 
Just look Cat is really the only one with hi-drive dozers. 
Hi-drives weight more then their comparable counterparts, so yes you'll have increased traction. 
You'll also have more cost rebuilding the undercarriage on a Hi-drive.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> Eco logging can allow a 10-20 year cut rotation. Although the trees won't be 36"  If you got redwoods that is a whole other ballgame.
> 
> I am not familiar with timber markets in Cali, but carefully watch the timber futures. Profits are thin, and holding the logs on deck for a few months can make a big difference. Also pay attention to government funded programs for things like thinning. The gov will also assist with putting a stewardship plan together, which can include a grazing plan, water plan, etc. These days letting livestock wander around water sources is frowned upon.


Well, I posted this the other day, but I see that it didn't show up.

The logging I'm doing is very small scale, as logging operations go. All the timber will be milled on site, and used for timber-frame Ag buildings, on the ranch.

I would love to get a later model D7, with a 6-way, that was also beefy enough to pull stumps, but those are starting to get out of my price range.

I'll be pulling stumps in areas where construction will take place. There is a lot of remedial pasture rehabilitation, and general cleanup work around here.



Delta


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## gober_john (2 mo ago)

4 way and 6 way! I would always want a 6 way over a 4 way. You can steer the dirt the direction you want it to go with a 6 way. You can hog with either. A good finish hand that knows what they are doing will want a 6 way.


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## JFM constr (Jul 26, 2014)

Thankyou for sharing . very busy ,what a property .


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## Fourthgeneration (Jul 25, 2021)

HIgh drives allow rear suspension, longer sprocket life, track?
terrain following track /under carriage = power to ground, at added cost for more parts, more ground clearance? allows crap to fall off track before pinching in sprocket, and rerouted from return idler.
Cat selling 175,000th memorial series of D-5-6-7 High drives made since 1985 now D8 with high drive option...
I'd consider using a mid sized back hoe for cutting ditches or a 2 machine unit, dozer and rented Hoe.
More joints = more slop as it wears, and far less resistant to operator 'errors'
but in a way the 6 way is a LOT more easier to operate in tight areas and for low skill users


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