# Removing Load bearing wall. LVL LOADS.



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Second floor joist spliced above....

_*"Beams? 
We don't need no steenking beams!"
*_


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## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

HO said his friend is an ironworker and that he would bring an I beam (8"). So the ball is out of my court . I personally think it's way overkill. But I don't have to worry about itanymore, just buttoning up.


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## Tim Garrison PE (Oct 22, 2009)

Hi All,

This is an excellent thread for many reasons. I've been told that if I would write a book on how to safely take out walls and parts of walls, I'd have a best seller. That WILL be the next book I write  Got to finish "Green Framing" first, though.

Anywho, here's some straight scoop on this issue.

Exterior walls must resist gravity (downward) load and lateral (sideways from wind and seismic). Punching holes in them affects both, so both need to be considered. Lumber yards are pretty good at the gravity side but not so much the lateral side. Therefore, you're gambling if you put your trust solely in them.

A note on what code requires. The '06 IBC says, to paraphrase, when you structurally alter an existing building you have to bring the ENTIRE AFFECTED AREA UP TO CURRENT CODE. That is a huge burden. I wouldn't trust anyone but a competent architect or engineer to bear that cross. And in matters of structural analysis, in my experience, competent architects are very hard to come by.

The size of the new beam has everything to do with the direction of the trusses and / or joists it supports. If on the gable end, the trusses are parallel and their applied load is very small; and if the floor joists above (assuming two stories) are also parallel, they don't apply much load either. So I'd expect a relatively small beam.

But the beam doesn't take any lateral load unless it's a steel beam welded to steel columns, aka "moment frame". So if you're using a wood beam, you're going to have to consider the wall panels that are left as heavy duty shear walls. Typically I'd expect those panels to be upgraded with holdowns, anchor bolts, new sheathing, and new connections at the top plate. But no one can estimate exactly how much of those things are required without running calcs.

So the bottom line is this. Before you take the job, educate the HO. Tell them that they're asking for something more substantial than a simple hole in the wall and new beam. Include some budget for engineering. For example, my cost for a project like this, if I was supplied lots of photos and a sketch or two would be $500 - $1,000. That might seem like a lot, but I'm taking a lot of liability. And also, it takes a lot of time coordinating a messy job like this, particularly when there are no Plans. 

When questions like this come up in the future, if you're interested in my take please feel free to alert me. I'm happy to provide my two cents.


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## freemason21 (Aug 5, 2009)

neolitic said:


> Second floor joist spliced above....
> 
> _*"Beams?
> We don't need no steenking beams!"
> *_


 wow that is one fancy custom jack :laughing:


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

neolitic said:


> Second floor joist spliced above....
> 
> _*"Beams? *_
> _*We don't need no steenking beams!"*_


I've seen some messed up headers but this one is a classic :no: Whoever did this had some imagination :laughing:


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