# Limited slip differential



## zaneroni (Dec 14, 2015)

Hi
I'm very new to this forum but have been reading it for a while.
I do small remodeling/ carpentry / handyman work and have started this business about 3 years ago.
The dodge caravan was getting smaller and smaller so I finally broke down and decided to purchase a full size 2002 Ford E150 club wagon that I will remove the seats and build some shelves in it.

I live in Minneapolis and most of my work is with in 10 miles. After being used to AWD and 4x4 I'm a little skeptic about driving a RWD in the snow. Someone suggested to add a posi traction / limited slip differential they said it will improve traction dramatically. 

I thought I'd turn to you guys and hopefully I can get some hand on advise if its worth the expense to add it on. It will cost close to a grand, which is almost what I paid for the van!
Thanks


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

Not sure I can see that is worth doing. Once you have that van loaded up you may get around just fine. 
There are plenty of legit reasons for needed 4 wheel drive but to be honest normal road driving rarely is one of them anymore, the highway dept's do a fine job of keeping roads drivable. Of course you are much further North so you would know better for what you need. 
Welcome to the forum.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

The truck I have now has posi and there is no comparison to 4wd or awd. I'd go a winter without and see how it does.

You will miss AWD/4WD regardless.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Yeah a LSD ain't gonna do much unless at least 1 wheel has traction. It's more a case of 4wd is the only option if you have snow covered roads you need to drive around on. I even changed tires this winter as I was even having trouble with 4wd in the hills with current tires.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I wouldn't compare the cost of the van to the cost of an upgrade.

I wouldn't make the investment until I find myself in a situation where I wish I had it.

I got a 4x4 thinking that it would keep me profitable but I realized that when the weather gets bad, everything around here shuts down. My 4x4 is a nice truck but it doesn't get me out of traffic jams nor does it make the GC's and other trades show up to the site just because I can make it there.


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## zaneroni (Dec 14, 2015)

You are all making very good points, thanks for the feed back. I guess a good set of winter tires and loading her up can make a difference. 

Someone told me the other day, if the weather is so bad, simply take the day off until they clear the roads. Good point. ;-)


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

I would not spend that money to do that. I would buy a set of cable or regular chains and carry with. Plus once you get the thing loaded your traction will improve. LSD does not replace 4x4 or AWD. My daily drive is a dually with LSD It get around pretty good ,but once I lose traction and brake loose can still be stuck until I cable or chain up. Another thing about LSD is once you brake loose it can kick the rear of your rig sideways and cause problems there. I would give it a winter and see how things go.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The factory locker in my GM'S is so good I rarely need 4wd. Only if I am actually stuck. 

The ford's lsd is and always was a joke.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The factory locker in my GM'S is so good I rarely need 4wd. Only if I am actually stuck.
> 
> The ford's lsd is and always was a joke.


I don't know about that, think mine does a pretty good job of doing what it is suppose to.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

From the 70s through the 2000's every ford I have owned, driven or towed with has a poor LSD. 

The GM's are fantastic, to the point of not needing 4x4 until you are really stuck.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> From the 70s through the 2000's every ford I have owned, driven or towed with has a poor LSD.
> 
> The GM's are fantastic, to the point of not needing 4x4 until you are really stuck.


Well everyone has their own opinion, I am quit satisfied with my Ford and can say the same thing.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It's not really an opinion when I have driven a dozen or more of each kind of truck though.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

The concept of the LSD is pretty simple when you are stuck. Either it transfers the power to the wheel with more grip or it don't. 99.9% of the time they will unless they are faulty or worn out. In this situation there's not really a better or worse. Your tires will play a bigger part than the diff it's self when both wheels have similar traction.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's not really an opinion when I have driven a dozen or more of each kind of truck though.


To each his own.:whistling


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> The concept of the LSD is pretty simple when you are stuck. Either it transfers the power to the wheel with more grip or it don't. 99.9% of the time they will unless they are faulty or worn out. In this situation there's not really a better or worse. Your tires will play a bigger part than the diff it's self when both wheels have similar traction.


The LSD is worthless compared to a locker.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The formidable Detroit locker, been in GM Dana 70's and corporate 14 bolt rear ends for decades. 

I am amazed what my 78 dually can go through.

I had a 94 f 350 dually that would get stuck on a dry dog turd backing down a hill.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The LSD is worthless compared to a locker.


Both are worthless if you have no grip. I see just as many people here stuck on my neighborhood hill with lockers as i do with LSD. I my self get stuck on that damn hill every year. This year a new version of my current tire come out. Meant to be way better in the ice and snow. Wife's car will run circles around my truck on same road as she has performance winter tires now. Even with a AWD system as advanced as Quattro if you ain't got traction you ain't got traction. No diff will help you no matter how good it is. 

Being on a back road with mud holes everywhere then yes the locker will work wonders and a LSD will get by. Snow and ice are different animals.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Nothing compares to good tires. I've seen hundreds of examples of 2wd vehicles with studded or stud-less snow and ice tires (like blizzaks) doing what AWD/4WD vehicles with all season tires couldn't do.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Learn how to drive. I can creep up an icy snow covered hill with out engaging 4wd 9 out of 10 times.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Learn how to drive. I can creep up an icy snow covered hill with out engaging 4wd 9 out of 10 times.


And when that 1 time comes around you will be stuck and a old woman in her front wheel drive prius with a open diff will come right by you because she running the right tires.

Also learning to drive dont give you traction. You could be Collin Mcray if you dont have traction you cant magically increase your driving skill to make more traction. The only thing that will help is better tires or chains or snow socks


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Learn how to drive. I can creep up an icy snow covered hill with out engaging 4wd 9 out of 10 times.


That's a good point too. Don't let your tires spin. Traction is gone then.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Golden view said:


> That's a good point too. Don't let your tires spin. Traction is gone then.


Exactly. 

I think some guys need to experience a Detroit locker though.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Golden view said:


> That's a good point too. Don't let your tires spin. Traction is gone then.


Yet some say spinning the tires is the correct way as it clears the tread of material so that you can get more traction. There's no right or wrong way to drive on snow, ice or mud. Each situation will require a different driving technique. On steep hills like my neighborhood you cant even move an inch without spinning the tires so you just gun it and hope for the best. Coming down the hill is the worst part though. Going up it is pretty easy compared to going down. That's a pukka up moment each time it snows here.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

For the cost, it is not worth it to upgrade your van. I used to run my 2wd open diff with studded snows, rarely had a problem unless snow was really high. I ran my chevy k2500 in 2wd most of the time, as the LSD in the rear was great. I even chained up once when we had like 2 feet of snow, and didnt need 4wd. 

i'd much more worry about stopping.. than moving. Moving and all is great. But stopping is much more important in my book. No locker/lsd will decrease your braking distance. And in a 2001, your lucky if you have ABS. So good winter tires I think are a must. Just take em off before the weather gets warmer.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

1) Narrow tires with aggressive tread. These can b e all weather radials - not a big deal.
2) Keep a load on. 
3) Larger diameter tires, but usually this takes the width in the wrong direction.


I've driven all winter in Idaho with bald cheapest bias ply tires available, no posi, and never got stuck.

News flash - you can plow all winter with all weather radials in a 4WD with no posi. You can even plow light stuff in 2WD. Just driving, most of the time you can drive in fairly deep snow (6-12") in 2WD, no posi. Going up a slick hill, it's going to be 4WD unless you have a locker.

Big difference between 4WD and locker is if it breaks loose, 4WD goes for the ditch, locker just the rear starts sliding. Have a 4WD break loose going down hill, and you're in for a wild ride.

That's my experience. My GF was a commercial plow truck operator, and she'd say the same (but she would never run bald tires).

Get some tires, and get your load worked out. The rest is all driving.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

On the truck i run all seasons as i ain't got the room to store multiple sets of rims and tires but they are Pirelli Scorpian Verde All season plus which should be way better than my old scorpian ATR's here's hoping. They wont be perfect in every aspect but will be good enough for a truck.

On the car i run 3 sets of rims and tires
19's with Performance winter tires Pilot Alpin PA4's
19's with Summer tires Pzero,s
20's with Summer performance tires Pilot Super sports

Not a cheap way to do it but way better than running an all season where there's always a compromise in safety.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

madmax718 said:


> i'd much more worry about stopping..


Same here. Working ABS is a big help. If you have ABS and it doesn't work or doesn't work right, it can keep you from being able to stop on a slippery downhill.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

See, I don't like abs.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have rarely had ABS come on. On my mother in laws crappy Durango that things ABS would come on in the dry pulling upto lights. It was annoying more than anything. It's again a situation of **** tires though. good tires ABS rarely comes on. Even under emergency braking I have not had it come on in my truck. Coming down that hill at my house though is the only time it really comes on in the winter and it's best that you don't even touch the brakes and just roll past my road and slow down on the flat at the bottom then turn around and go back up the hill into my road. It's comical watching all the people going up and down the road though when it snows here. Guys with jeeps are the best. Them things are awful in the snow and ice.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

ABS is good for people who panic and lock up the tires, or people who don't panic but don't understand the concept. 

Really good ABS is rare, but it can probably beat the best driver because it'll brake each wheel individually and keep all tires spinning.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Of course, I'm out of the loop now. A million miles in Alaska until 2012, but now I live in the land of the rain.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

My experience with an 08 E-350 with good tires and a lot of weight in the back is that if you get on some ice or dense packed snow that is semi ice a 1" bump will hang you up...give the tires a few rotations trying to get out and your screwed. 

Keep a tow strap at all times and have a few buddies with 4x4's.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

ABS is bull****.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ABS was banned in most motor sports as it gave the drivers too much of an advantage. There's no denying it helps 99.9% of drivers on the road. If it can help F1 drivers who are some of the best drivers in the world it can help any of us lot too. Kind of like traction control. It's hard to be better than electronic driver aids and it's the reason almost anyone can get into a modern car like the Nissan GTR and compete with world class drivers but there's no replacement for a pro driver. None of us are pro drivers though so ABS is gonna be helpful more than not. Most people wouldn't know a wheel has locked up until after you are out of control.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Sure.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

If ABS bothers people so much perhaps they should learn to drive and get some advanced driving lessons on brake control. It's fairly easy to not have it activate every time you stop. Most important thing again though is good quality tires.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't need my vehicle to drive for me. 

I wish I could had time to video the new f150 that smashed into a truck and shoved it back 20 feet when it was auto parking in front of the hardware store last week.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It was some funny ****.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I don't need my vehicle to drive for me.
> 
> I wish I could had time to video the new f150 that smashed into a truck and shoved it back 20 feet when it was auto parking in front of the hardware store last week.


Well that cant really be blamed on the truck. That's user error. The trucks system to park is extremely reliable. It uses the sensors to know how far it is from the other cars and curbs when turning but it still requires the driver to use their brakes.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, it was 100% the truck.

It gunned the throttle and shoved the parked truck back.


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