# Garage/Shop Preparations



## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

My GF and I have purchased another home (not the one I was asking about a month ago - a different one in a LOT better condition) and will be moving at the end of March. The new house has a detached 16x20 garage that I will be taking over and making into my shop. I've already laid the ground work for this with her - I've told her all the decisions in regard to the house and what we do/don't do are all up to her but the garage is mine to do with however I see fit :cheesygri . So, with that being taken care of I have a few questions that I am looking for suggestions/advice from everyone here.

1. My biggest concern is security. The garage has a single garage door with a garage door opener, 2 regular entry doors at the back of the garage on either side and 2 large windows (back and side) about 36"x36", give or take. First thing I plan to do is add deadbolts to the entry doors, the kind that are keyed on both sides. The question I have here is what is the best thing for me to use to secure the windows - they're single pane glass and would be pretty easy to break into. I don't want to lose the light so what would be the best way for me to secure the windows, metal grills or something else?

2. The walls are framed with 2x4's and not insulated. What would be the suggested method of insulation/finishing the walls? I know I could insulate with fiberglass insulation and drywall but I was looking for alternatives. Keep in mind it will be a shop and the walls will end up having peg board, work benches and shelving along most of them.

3. Further to the insulating question. If I am going to go ahead with insulating the walls, I realize it would be a waste to not do the roof at the same time. The garage is open to the roof with loose boards laid over beams to make a makeshift ceiling/storage area. I don't want to lose storage space above the "ceiling" by closing it off. Will insulating the ceiling trusses be enough? Keep in mind I'm not winterizing it - I just want to keep it more comfortable to work in during the winter & summer.

4. Also, any tips, suggestions or ideas on how best to set up the shop. I realize everyone has their own preferences, it's just that I am working with a blank slate here and would love to hear ideas from others on how they have or would set up a shop if they had the opportunity I'm getting.

I am thankful for any and all suggestions for my questions above and I know pictures would help but I won't have the opportunity to take any until March 27th (the closing date).


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## jwatkins (Jan 5, 2006)

Definatly insulate that shop!! I bought my house last fall didnt insulate and was miserable all winter. This summer I insulated walls and ceiling and am loving it a comfortable 55*. I also have storage in my attic above so i just used wall insulatin r-19 i think. Isnt as efficient as other stuff but does the job good enough.

If you are planning on putting peg board up so you can hang stuff. I found out its best to figure out how much shelving peg board, ect youll need then put 7/16plywood where you need alot of support. I used plywwod for the first 8' then sheetrock for the last 2'. Worked out perfect for my shelves that are 2' below the ceiling.

Another big thing is build a bench thats TUFF. I made one of mine about 3' deep and about 42" off the groung with a 1/4 steel plate on top so it can take a beating. Hope that helps. GoodLuck:thumbsup:


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I'd make sure my TS, jointer, planer and lumber storage were in-line with the garage door. You want to be able to move everything right out of your truck and into/onto your equipment. Swinging a 16' piece of lumber, hitting everything in sight gets old.
My garage doors are wired to a dedicated light switch so the power can be turned off to them. After I know I'm in for the night, the power is turned off to the doors. 
I'd also go with plywood 8' up. I hate pegboard.
I'd also go with metal grates on the windows. My garage is attached and the entire dwelling is wired for home security. EVERY single door and window has a sensor along with a few motion and sound detectors. If I didn't have the security, the garage windows would definately have metal grates.
I'd run 220 out there...compressors, welders, etc.
A few 110 outlets on the ceiling is convenient.
Don't know how carried away you want to get, but if you plan on painting the floor, do it now with a quality expoxy/paint before any equipment gets in.
All kinds of other stuff, but I'm running late this morning.


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## kenvest (Sep 27, 2005)

attic space is nice...


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

Drop cords from the ceiling. Be sure to layout any saws, planners, etc so the work will flow between them. Try and make all tables the same height as your machinery as they can be used for supports between machines. Seeing you do decks make sure to setup lumber storage so it is easy to get to and near where you will use it first.
I'm jealous, fun setting it up. The insulation goes without saying. Dust collection is a nice thing to have. Maybe a skylight for natural light.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Thanks for the tips thus far. Keep them coming! :thumbsup:

A lot of the ideas given are things I was thinking of doing - the confirmation is nice to have. I plan on putting my two existing work benches on the side away from the garage door. Sounds like I'll be going with plywood over the insulation that way I don't have to worry about hitting the walls and putting holes in the drywall. Plus, the height to the existing "ceiling" is about 8' so I'll probably fore-go drywall altogether. I have a dust collection system I am going to recycle from my Dad's basement and an industrial size belt drive table saw (on wheels) that I cannot wait to get into the new shop.

Another question, about the power...

The garage has existing electricity - it's only a 15A circuit on 14/2 wire that runs to a couple of plugs, a couple of fluorescent lights and the garage door opener. I realize this isn't nearly enough power for what I need. Our short to long term plans for the house are to blow out the wall of the house closest to the garage and expand the house in the direction of the garage. We will either incorporate the garage into the addition or turn it and move it to the side lawn - we haven't decided yet. Anyway, back to my question. My eventual plans are to wire 220 to the garage with a separate 60A breaker. In the mean time would it be feasible/practical to put a dedicated panel with a 15A breaker between the wire coming into the garage and everything in the garage?

I ask this for 2 reasons: 1. I want to be able to reset the breaker when it trips as opposed to going all the way into the house and reset it and 2. I don't want to waste the time, effort and expense of running conduit and wire back to the panel when I'm probably going to change/replace this once we start renovations in the fall.

Thanks again!


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## RYANINMICHIGAN (Dec 9, 2005)

You will need a fridge, (at least I do) how about Rebar criss crossed over the window? Might be able to use bigger opnenings then mesh. The power situation kind of sucks. wont be running much at once until you get that fixed. Cool though I am planning my shop to build it in the end of July or August. 32x48 with radiant floor


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

For windows, eveytime I build a garage for a shop or car guy I always recommend using a slider style so it keep the window up and out of the way of benches and typical waist high beating with grinders and such. typical double hungs hang too low if it's an older taller style window.

Windows themselves, assuming these are older sinlge barn sash type units would be replaceing with some "bullet proof" lexan/plexglass, you can get it in about any thickness you deisre, 1" is more than enough to stop any would be baseball bat weilding thugs. Or you can go with windows that are hurricane rated. We recently did an security upgrade for a doctor and his wife-long story but the guy that stalked and damn near beat her to death after he raped her got out after a 17yr stint and they were nervious he may come back for vengence. Anyways, for all their windows/patio door we installed some very expensive hurricane rated units, they are supposedly capable of stopping a 2x4 shot at 150mph from 5', so it should be enough to stop/slow down the azzwipe and make enough noise that she has time to get into her safe room and call for help.

Definately plywood down low for durablity and ease for shelves/hangin things. You shop is small enough, to maximixe ceiling space install the poly chutes under the sheeting, finalize you wiring and have the sprayed on insulation installed. Better r value and allow you get gain alot of attic sspcae that way.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Just maybe a few 'room-saving' ideas I'll run by ya' here.

The first picture shows my cabinet saw, - - it's set just a few inches from the overhead door, - - that way the stock feeds OUTSIDE, - - there's also an overhead aluminum awning out there to keep the stock dry even if it's raining. Those 'out-feed' rollers (about $250) you see fold down against the saw when not in use and still allow the overhead door to close. I inserted the router set-up to get more use out of the extension table, - - and as you can see, - - I hooked on an auxiliary router fence to the saw fence to be able to use either/or with no set-up changes.

In the second picture you can see that my 13" surface-planer ships the wood right through the cut-out in the wall, which has a removable door, and also doubles as a mail/drop-off slot. I'll sometimes feed the wood through the planer and right onto the truck.

At the front of the picture, you can see the top of my 20" planer, which I can get away with having more towards the center of the shop, because I mainly use it for short-work, such as raised-panels and such.

It's all about getting the best use of the space you got, - - 'cuz I don't care how much it is, - - It's never gonna be ENOUGH!! :no: 

Good Luck with it.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Tom R said:


> Just maybe a few 'room-saving' ideas I'll run by ya' here.
> 
> The first picture shows my cabinet saw, - - it's set just a few inches from the overhead door, - - that way the stock feeds OUTSIDE, - - there's also an overhead aluminum awning out there to keep the stock dry even if it's raining. Those 'out-feed' rollers (about $250) you see fold down against the saw when not in use and still allow the overhead door to close. I inserted the router set-up to get more use out of the extension table, - - and as you can see, - - I hooked on an auxiliary router fence to the saw fence to be able to use either/or with no set-up changes.
> 
> ...


 Hey Tom,
Nice shop and very nice equipment.:thumbup: You really know how to use all that stuff? :laughing: I don't recall seeing a fridge in there, how do you keep the brew cold? :blink: Jeesh with all those toys out there I bet Mrs Tommer has to go out there every once in a while and drag you into the house by your ear.:laughing: :laughing: See Ya!:jester:


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

Hey Tom,

Where did you get that roller table on your table saw? I have a similar sized workshop and am in the process of reorganization. I like the holes in the walls for the outfeed tables too.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

jmic said:


> Hey Tom,
> Nice shop and very nice equipment.:thumbup: You really know how to use all that stuff? :laughing: I don't recall seeing a fridge in there, how do you keep the brew cold? :blink: Jeesh with all those toys out there I bet Mrs Tommer has to go out there every once in a while and drag you into the house by your ear.:laughing: :laughing: See Ya!:jester:


Thanks, Joe, - - yeah, I think the thing that kills her the most is when she comes out there to get me and spots some new equipment that wasn't there yesterday.

She just tells me to save some room for a BED out there!!


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Thanks for the visuals Tom. I won't have quite that much space or that much equipment for that matter. Also, it will be a work in progress. At first I'll just be moving over my existing stuff plus bringing the cabinet saw up from my Mom's place. Seeing your wall cabinets did give me a thought though. We're going to be gutting the kitchen and bathroom in the new house so I'll recycle the old cabinets into the shop.

At first, my biggest concerns are the security, insulation and power issues, oh and the FRIDGE :thumbsup:


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

KBKConstruction said:


> Hey Tom,
> 
> Where did you get that roller table on your table saw? I have a similar sized workshop and am in the process of reorganization. I like the holes in the walls for the outfeed tables too.


Hmm, - - tryin' to remember. Let me get back to you on that, - - I'll definitely let you know.

I do remember they ran around $250, - - and they'll fit most, if not all, saws. 

Basically, you just gotta drill a few holes in the back of your cabinet for attachment. Just takes a little extra playin' around to line 'em up perfect, - - they need to be set dead-on with the plane of your table, - - in both the up and the down position, - - because even in the down position, one row of rollers is being used. But once they're set, - - they don't 'move' on ya'.

They real sharp, they 'release' with just a push with your foot.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Here ya' go, K, - - I can't get the URL to work, - - but if you just go to Amazon.com and do a search on 'outfeed rollers', it'll come right up.


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## [email protected]&R (Jul 26, 2005)

That 15A circuit is not gonna do much with the shop lights on it too. If your gonna cover the walls with plywood why not install a $50 100Amp workshop panel. Just run the service overhead and make sure its bonded. Total cost depending on the house panel wouldnt be more then $200 or $300 and it would all be reuseable after the remodel/addition. Just my 2 cents.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

Tom R said:


> Here ya' go, K, - - I can't get the URL to work, - - but if you just go to Amazon.com and do a search on 'outfeed rollers', it'll come right up.


Same thing I found on ebay. Thanks for the help Tom. I'm orderin mine ASAP. :clap:


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

[email protected]&R said:


> That 15A circuit is not gonna do much with the shop lights on it too. If your gonna cover the walls with plywood why not install a $50 100Amp workshop panel. Just run the service overhead and make sure its bonded. Total cost depending on the house panel wouldnt be more then $200 or $300 and it would all be reuseable after the remodel/addition. Just my 2 cents.


You know Ken, I never did think about running the wire overhead - Doh! I was just thinking about all the work to trench for conduit. The space between the house and the garage is really badly laid interlock that looks to have been there for a long time. Also, because this area is going to be demoed when the addition goes in.

I like the idea of a 100A panel but the house only has 100A service and we wont be in a position to upgrade the panel right away. The most I think I'll have room for is a 60A panel to the garage. So, this begs the following questions...

What gage wire do I need to run to the shop for a 60A panel?

The main panel is at the far end of the house, about 40-50 ft. from the garage. Do I run conduit along the outside of the house to the closest corner and then up the side of the house to get to the right height before I span the distance between the house/garage?

Is it okay for the wire that spans the space to be exposed i.e not in conduit?

If I can collect all the right info, I'd be doing all of the grunt work as far as running the conduit, wire, panel, etc. and then just get an electrician in to do the hook-ups so I pass the inspection.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

KBKConstruction said:


> Same thing I found on ebay. Thanks for the help Tom. I'm orderin mine ASAP. :clap:


Good, - - you'll be happy you did.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Tom/KBK - you two thread hijackers start your own thread! LOL


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## [email protected]&R (Jul 26, 2005)

I like the idea of a 100A panel but the house only has 100A service and we wont be in a position to upgrade the panel right away. The most I think I'll have room for is a 60A panel to the garage.
Get a 100 Amp panel and swap the main breaker out for a 60 Amp. This would allow you to mount the full 100 Amp panel and swap it back later when you do the underground for a 100Amp. You are already set for an upgrade like this.

What gage wire do I need to run to the shop for a 60A panel?
You could use 4AWG it would be oversized but that works here. Then pull it down for remodel and stuff it in the conduit when your ready. Or for 60Amps you would need 6Awg wire.

The main panel is at the far end of the house, about 40-50 ft. from the garage. Do I run conduit along the outside of the house to the closest corner and then up the side of the house to get to the right height before I span the distance between the house/garage?
Thats how I have to run it here with local codes. Have to use rigid conduit and have it 16 feet min above finished grade.

Is it okay for the wire that spans the space to be exposed i.e not in conduit?
The wire does not have to be in condit for the span from the house to the garage.

It may sound like a pain but it's only a 1/2 day job. You need to check local codes though.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Ken, do you mean 16 inches above finished grade? 16 feet would be above the peak of the roof...


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

DecksEtc said:


> Tom/KBK - you two thread hijackers start your own thread! LOL


Uh-oh, - - BUSTED!! :whistling


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

Tom, 

You know what hes talkin about?? Not me :whistling  hehe


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## leiffearn (Feb 11, 2006)

I'd use 8 gauge. I would pull it through conduit the whole way. Go rigid outside and then transfer to flex when you get into the attic. Save yourself some work and get bigger conduit than you need just to make the pull easier. Get a flush mount sub-panel so you can tap into it in the future to modify your shop. 
Any wire in the attic can be Romex. If it is not protected behind drywall and is exposed to the weather or living space it needs to be in conduit. 
I think you can by 8-3 Romex if you need it.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

leiffearn said:


> I'd use 8 gauge. I would pull it through conduit the whole way. Go rigid outside and then transfer to flex when you get into the attic. Save yourself some work and get bigger conduit than you need just to make the pull easier. Get a flush mount sub-panel so you can tap into it in the future to modify your shop.
> Any wire in the attic can be Romex. If it is not protected behind drywall and is exposed to the weather or living space it needs to be in conduit.
> I think you can by 8-3 Romex if you need it.



Thanks for your advice about the wiring Ken & leif.

I'll be using the rigid conduit for the run on the outside of the house. There will be no conduit or wire in the attic - I have to span a distance of about 15 ft. or so between the house and the garage. The reason I don't want to bury it is because it is a temporary solution until the house renovations take place. You see, the garage may or may not stay where it is and could possibly get moved. Ken answered my question though about the span.

So, what is it guys, 6 gauge or 8 gauge?


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

I'd think the 8 is just fine, - - but for the minimal price difference goin' 6 is the obvious choice, - - a shop never ends up takin' LESS juice than you think, - - only MORE!!


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Thanks Tom. Besides, it's not like I can take the 8 back when/if I need to change to 6 :cheesygri


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## [email protected]&R (Jul 26, 2005)

Yeah Id use the 6AWG. That way you can go underground later when you move/change the garage and use the same wire for the perminate service. When its overhead its easy to change. When you go underground it gets a bit harder. I would over size it then at least your ready for future needs.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

[email protected]&R said:


> Yeah Id use the 6AWG. That way you can go underground later when you move/change the garage and use the same wire for the perminate service. When its overhead its easy to change. When you go underground it gets a bit harder. I would over size it then at least your ready for future needs.


6AWG it is then! The main reason for me going overhead between the house and garage is so I don't waste the time/effort of burying conduit when I'll be moving it in 6-10 months. About the possible moving of the location later, will I be code compliant if I have an extra 20-30 feet of cable that is coiled up inside the garage before I hook into the sub-panel? Considering that 6AWG isn't cheap, I'd hate to have to pull out what I installed and pull new wire when the time comes for extending the run...

I'm also going to oversize the conduit so I can run wire to the addition when the time comes.


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## [email protected]&R (Jul 26, 2005)

DecksEtc said:


> 6AWG it is then! The main reason for me going overhead between the house and garage is so I don't waste the time/effort of burying conduit when I'll be moving it in 6-10 months. About the possible moving of the location later, will I be code compliant if I have an extra 20-30 feet of cable that is coiled up inside the garage before I hook into the sub-panel? Considering that 6AWG isn't cheap, I'd hate to have to pull out what I installed and pull new wire when the time comes for extending the run...
> 
> I'm also going to oversize the conduit so I can run wire to the addition when the time comes.


I don't see how coiling it up could hurt anything as long as its out of the way. Im not sure about being code complient though. I never ran into that situation. The only time I remember needing to do that was commercial and we coiled it into a large hoffman type box.


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## redwing510 (Jan 28, 2006)

Nice shop Tom! The top of your 20" planer looks exactly like ours, what brand? Our shop used to be a tavern (my parents owned) complete with walk-in cooler, who needs a frige?:laughing: One problem though, you must not have many bugs where your at to leave those doors open all the time! We've got mostiqutos the size of humming birds in the spring! But anyways Deck, the overhead elec. sounds like the way to go here, make sure you put plenty of outlets at the front of the benches as opposed to the back of the benches so there ain't a bunch of sh*t in the way. Also if you have the room, a 4' x 8' (or longer) work platform about 26" to 30" off the floor with power outlets around it for working on cabinets or putting together your kids bike , etc. w/o having to bend over so much ro reaching to high. We've got some pull out drawers on it also for storage of fasteners, fillers, etc. I guess a good ? would be what do you plan on doing in this shop? Oh, have many air supply connections at all work stations. Blah blah blah:thumbsup:


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

redwing, I'm going to have the absolute maximum number of outlets I can install on whatever service I end up running to the shop. Good idea about being at the front of the benches - the thought didn't occur to me!

I'm not sure yet if I'm going to have the room for a low platform bench like you suggested. It would be nice but I haven't completely mapped out the space yet. Currently I have two 4'x8' work benches but I am likely going to move them to the back of the shop when I take the soon to be old cupboards/countertop from the kitchen and move them into the shop. As for the main use of the shop, I don't do a lot of cabinet work. Aside from the household work I use it for, I use the shop to mainly do a lot of my prep work for the business. I try to do all my custom balusters, trellis work, arbors, planters, benches and the like in there - and of course, storage! When I have rain days, I do as much pre-work in there as possible.

Thanks for your tips! :thumbsup:


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## Woodcrafter74 (Oct 5, 2005)

*New Workshop*

Time to resurrect this thread, I get my new 14x24 shop this week. I know it will be too small, but it's the biggest I could fit. 

I need to trench about 80' for power from the house to the shop. This is probably a stupid question, but it's not possible to run water lines in the same trench is it? Based on other recommendations here, I'm of course going to be insulating and then running plywood up the walls. I'm leaning away from rock on the ceiling, any real negatives to peg board on the ceiling, or what other options are there to hide the insulation. 
Finally, how much power does a kegerator pull? :whistling


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

I don't know what the code is on that around your way, - - but I don't see any problem with running water and electric in the same trench, - - maybe someone else knows for sure . . .

I'm not big on the pegboard on the ceiling idea, though, - - seems like a haven for bugs 'n such to nest in and out of, - - how about a drop ceiling if it's flat, - - or if it's raked go with a solid surface like 1/4" Launne or somethin'.


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## oldgoat (Aug 18, 2005)

When I built my shop I had given thought to running some water out there, but if I remember right they said I couldn't run it in the same trench. It might be a difference in local codes though also. A local contractor or inspector should be able to tell you for sure if you can or not.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

With the low price of 1/2" OSB these days ($5.98 at Lowes), I think I'd go with that for the ceiling and walls.


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## karma_carpentry (Aug 7, 2005)

I just got through outfitting a 20x20 small shop.

I thought about wall surfaces, and finally went with sheetrock, primed it white and the hung 3 horizontal ledger boards all around. It's a good compromise between smooth white for light reflectance, and also being able to drive nails and hooks for tools. I just don't like pegboard.

On the electrical, there was a 14-2 supply to the garage, and I use that for lighting only. I have 4 lighting 'zones' -- two general overhead and two for workstations. I ran a 12-2 UF (underground feeder) for the tools circuit. Some may say it's underpowered, but it's fine for me. I use one tool at a time, so 20A is fine. Put 2-gangs with 4 receptacles at 18" height every 6 feet, and above the workbench.

Just don't have lights and tools on the same circuit. You don't want to see the lights fluctuate every time you switch on the table saw.

I insulated with fiberglass R-13 all around. Yeah, it's not to code. Shhh.

Built a nice workbench by laminating 17 2x3's with Titebond III glue and 5 threaded rods. It's a really nice feeling to have a thick solid slab of wood for a primary workbench. Next time I'd use 2x4's.

For security, I used double casement windows so they have a divider in the middle. I have yet to put some bars across each pane.

I have the router table, bandsaw, and jointer clustered together, and the table saw 'floats' around as needed. Crosscut saw against one wall. 20x20 is a little small but it's been working.


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## Woodcrafter74 (Oct 5, 2005)

Nice input guys, the peg board idea is gone. 

I have an electrian coming this week and I'll ask him about the electric/water in the same trench. 

Karma, good point on making sure the lights/tools on a separate circuit. I think I'm going to be putting 6 4' double fluorescents, I'm not sure if that's overkill, but I'd rather have too much light than not enough. 

I'm also going to put in a air filtration system. I have a dust allergy and I want something to help catch what the dust collection system misses. Anyone buy one of these off the shelf? There was a decent plan in one of the latest issues of Workshop magazine on how to make your own.

Thanks again.


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## karma_carpentry (Aug 7, 2005)

Woodcrafter74 said:


> I think I'm going to be putting 6 4' double fluorescents, I'm not sure if that's overkill, but I'd rather have too much light than not enough.


For my purposes, I need a lot of light sometimes, but other times I want low light and just a spotlight where I'm working, so I wired only one light directly. For the other three 'zones' I wired receptacles in the ceiling controlled by the wall switches - that way I can plug in clamp lights or fluorescent troffers or whatever - and I ended up rearranging the lighting several times until I got it working for me. Just a thought. If you hardwire it, you're stuck with whatever you thought would work before you started to really use it.


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