# Illegal Immigration



## NJ Contractor (Nov 12, 2016)

Tom M said:


> What has happened is a direct result of the loss of manufacturing. I grew up there were a dozen or so contractors in town, in each trade.....everyone knew who the other was and laborers were someones brother or cousin.
> 
> 
> Now there are dozen contractor on every block and everyone is trying to find someone cheaper to do something so the market is flooded with all types of non professionals undermining legitimate business. Chronic bad information being passed around too.....then the enormous volume of products on the market everyone that has to research before hand.
> ...


I have been in business since 1997 and when I started the company there were maybe 5 contractors in my area, now there are literally hundreds. There were 3 designers, now every stay at home Mom with an instagram account has opened a design business...the market is saturated and HGTV is doing us all a disservice. 

My recommendation for the illegal immigrant labor problem is to charge the immigrants an entrance fee, say $5k. Give them a tax id number and charge a 5% immigration tax on top of the standard payroll taxes, until they are able to become a citizen. To enforce this, make stricter laws, with large fines to combat the hiring of illegals without a tax id. :thumbsup:


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

NJ Contractor said:


> Oh ok I feel better now sending the insurance company $14,400 a year for 2 perfectly healthy 40 something year olds...


A minimum of 90% of that $14,400 has to go to pay for care. It’s genius really if you’re the author of Obolacare. Make a provision in the law that basically forces the insurance companies to negotiate against themselves so the they can keep hiking rates to raise their profit, eventually causing the private health care system to implode. It took the insurance companies a few years to get their groove but now they have it, in 5 years you’ll be paying $25,000/yr.... or more. Mark my words.


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## NJ Contractor (Nov 12, 2016)

Big Johnson said:


> A minimum of 90% of that $14,400 has to go to pay for care. It’s genius really if you’re the author of Obolacare. Make a provision in the law that basically forces the insurance companies to negotiate against themselves so the they can keep hiking rates to raise their profit, eventually causing the private health care system to implode. It took the insurance companies a few years to get their groove but now they have it, in 5 years you’ll be paying $25,000/yr.... or more. Mark my words.


And we will be forced to buy it because it will be considered a tax and we will have to pay a fine if we don't...


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Idothat said:


> Around here (Virginia) the first foreign workers I saw were picking apples in the valley in the 70's. Next time I noticed them picking tomatoes in Hanover county, later in the 70's.
> 
> Then by the mid 80's started seeing them working tobacco in southern Virginia
> About this time they started to trickle into painting and drywall in the Richmond area
> ...



I remember back in the '70s my sister got a job at a pizza place. She had to take the orders because the guys only spoke Italian.
Then the place closed. Immigration raided the place along with a couple other of the places they had.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

tgeb said:


> They don't need to speak "the" language, there are so many here and everything is printed in 40 different languages...even the election ballot.
> 
> There are agency's here in my local that cater to the illegals, probably get tax payer money to keep the doors open.


My grand parents were Polish immigrants and my grandfather never could speak English.
My wife's grandparents were Italian and her grandmother never spoke English.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TimNJ said:


> Because in my state at least, where the average salary for cops is $100,000, I'm paying that already, then they snag work under the table. I'm not paying an illegal $100,000, then they work under the table.
> And they are just as illegal in what they are doing as the illegal immigrant.


Illegals are criminals by crossing the border illegally. They often have to buy fake IDs in order to work. So that are also criminals just to work. While firemen and policemen may do side work more often than not they aren't doing anything criminal to work so that's how it's worse.

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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> I remember back in the '70s my sister got a job at a pizza place. She had to take the orders because the guys only spoke Italian.
> Then the place closed. Immigration raided the place along with a couple other of the places they had.


I bet the pizza was really good.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Illegals are criminals by crossing the border illegally. They often have to buy fake IDs in order to work. So that are also criminals just to work. While firemen and policemen may do side work more often than not they aren't doing anything criminal to work so that's how it's worse.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Um, it's criminal to work under the table.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

TimNJ said:


> Um, it's criminal to work under the table.


Everybody understands that, it’s just that the illegal alien is already breaking the law before he contracts illegally. It’s sorta like the criminal who uses a firearm in the act of another crime, it adds to the severity of that crime. 

I’m actually with you though. Government employees should be held to a higher standard, especially those who take an oath. Going out and doing illegal contracting is corruption. They are doing it because of the position of authority they hold and are confident there will be no repercussions because of it. Pretty much the definition of abuse of power. Not much different than a congresswoman taking payoffs.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

NJ Contractor said:


> I have been in business since 1997 and when I started the company there were maybe 5 contractors in my area, now there are literally hundreds. There were 3 designers, now every stay at home Mom with an instagram account has opened a design business...the market is saturated and HGTV is doing us all a disservice.
> 
> My recommendation for the illegal immigrant labor problem is to charge the immigrants an entrance fee, say $5k. Give them a tax id number and charge a 5% immigration tax on top of the standard payroll taxes, until they are able to become a citizen. To enforce this, make stricter laws, with large fines to combat the hiring of illegals without a tax id. :thumbsup:


New Jersey is all about the public unions and illegals. They don't give two ****s about the taxpayers themselves. We are not part of their team.

They are anti-business, pro-government and believe if they create enough of their own they could socially engineer changes in this state even though there's no way to pay for it they believe they can get socialism right where others have been wrong in the past.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

If you can't out do a moonlighting Cop or even a sleep on the clock most days "Pro" fireman, maybe you need to upgrade your work product?

Worst case, just film the public servant sleeping on the clock...


Ask the HOs who PAYS when Cheap Charlie falls off his ladder @ Their house?


Illegal alien workers aren't going to disappear without first several thousand criminal employers doing time and paying large fines.


I think don't the scum the hire or use indirectly alien illegal labor ought to be deported un-till they are convicted on three separate acts of using illegal present workers....

Stock companies that have over 50 % of entry level labor illegal workers need to have their businesses Closed and all assets forfeited under the RICO Act....All meat-packers....most drywallers, about 30% of masonry companies, concrete, factory farm labor.....


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Big Johnson said:


> I bet the pizza was really good.


Pizza everywhere in NJ is really good or they will be out of business quickly


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

The government should only have a few jobs, one is to secure the border.


Dont tell foreigners to come here and we'll pay your food, housing and education but if a citizen hires you we'll punish the business. 



I knew of dudes that had real ID's through motor vehicles or simply shared legal documents among their hommies.....how many battles can the business guy take.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Tom M said:


> The government should only have a few jobs, one is to secure the border.
> 
> 
> Dont tell foreigners to come here and we'll pay your food, housing and education but if a citizen hires you we'll punish the business.
> ...


They have work visa's for a reason, and there's nothing wrong holding companies accountable in ensuring they have not expired and if they continue to employ them after they do... companies are hosed if they're not insured or licensed, including fines, etc. why should this be any different?

When we pick and choose which laws to follow based on convenience, laws lose their meaning...

Personally, I think that's been the plan all along (being undone from within) but another subject altogether...


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## Idothat (May 19, 2018)

I could fix illegal immigration tomorrow 
All I'd have to do is hire a bunch of illegals 
As soon as I do, the government would have the biggest crackdown in history


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Kinda' sums it up...
*Immigration raids in Nebraska, Minnesota target businesses... * https://apnews.com/f2332b8cec5a4fb6...aids-in-Nebraska,-Minnesota-target-businesses
*
"The focus of the operation is unusual in that it targeted business operators for arrest. Most immigration raids have targeted workers suspected of being in the country illegally.

“The whole investigation was initiated, basically, because we knew that these businesses were cheating these workers and cheating taxpayers and cheating their competition,” Cormier said."*​


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I stand by my statement you let Millions not some people Millions abusive system in flood markets to put people out of business then turn around and punish the people trying to stay competitive.


It's like 10 times worse than Uber and the taxi and limousine Commission. Uber at least these people I think or paying taxes on the money even though they're not paying commercial insurance or anything else.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Friend of mine owns a manufacturing business, when he hires people he cannot question the documents supplied to him or he gets a letter from a lawyer and a local immigrant organization. The only way he can stop them is when they compare paperwork every so often they see the same names, addresses and SS#s, they they all get fired because he has no way to tell who is who.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TimNJ said:


> Um, it's criminal to work under the table.


What's your point since it has nothing to do with my point or contrary to anything I said. Of course it's illegal to work under the table. But it isn't just as illegal since an illegal alien is a criminal by entering here illegally. Then they are committing more crimes with fake ID's or working under the table.

They are legal citizen of this country. Big difference when you say they are just as illegal.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> What's your point since it has nothing to do with my point or contrary to anything I said. Of course it's illegal to work under the table. But it isn't just as illegal since an illegal alien is a criminal by entering here illegally. Then they are committing more crimes with fake ID's or working under the table.
> 
> They are legal citizen of this country. Big difference when you say they are just as illegal.



The point was that there was an insinuation that cops and firemen working under the table was wink, wink, nod, nod, ok, but a Mexican or Central American was wrong.


They are both just as wrong as the other.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> The point was that there was an insinuation that cops and firemen working under the table was wink, wink, nod, nod, ok, but a Mexican or Central American was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No they aren't both just as wrong. Someone that illegally enters our country to work under the table is worse than someone that doesn't. Then when they steal someone's identify it becomes felonius, HUGE difference in which one is worse. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Californiadecks said:


> No they aren't both just as wrong. Someone that illegally enters our country to work under the table is worse than someone that doesn't. Then when they steal someone's identify it becomes felonius, HUGE difference in which one is worse.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________




I agree

Someone who is working a second job for cash can simply report the income at the end of the year and then they are doing nothing wrong

A person who is here illegally is not in the same category. They can pay tax on it but they are still here illegally and can still be arrested and deported 


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> No they aren't both just as wrong. Someone that illegally enters our country to work under the table is worse than someone that doesn't. Then when they steal someone's identify it becomes felonius, HUGE difference in which one is worse.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


And on top of that send the money their earn outside the US economy while simultaneously use the services that are supposed to be reserved for citizens of the country...

There are a few other differences...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Windycity said:


> I agree
> 
> Someone who is working a second job for cash can simply report the income at the end of the year and then they are doing nothing wrong
> 
> ...




If they are paying tax on income they have stole someone's identity. That's a felony. 


Mike.
_______________


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TimNJ said:


> The point was that there was an insinuation that cops and firemen working under the table was wink, wink, nod, nod, ok, but a Mexican or Central American was wrong.
> 
> 
> They are both just as wrong as the other.


There was no insinuation. You may have inferred it, but the was nothing in my statement that said that they are doing is okay. My point was to refute your argument that it was just as bad. It isn't.

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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

There's something to be said for both sides of the argument. 

Our justice system has a graduated set of penalties that in theory correspond to the egregiousness of given illegal acts. 

OTOH, there is no such sliding scale (or shouldn't be) when it comes to ethics/honesty/morality. You either have them or you don't. A "white lie" is still a lie. In that sense, I say hang 'em all.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> If they are paying tax on income they have stole someone's identity. That's a felony.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


So is illegally entering the country. 

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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> So is illegally entering the country.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk




I think we've all worked under the table at one time. We all haven't snuck into a country illegally, stole someone's identify and worked under the table. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Take right or wrong, legal or illegal, licensed or not licensed...out of the equation.

If the job wasn't up to snuff...who would you think would face the music and make it right...the illegal or the fireman?


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> There's something to be said for both sides of the argument.
> 
> Our justice system has a graduated set of penalties that in theory correspond to the egregiousness of given illegal acts.
> 
> OTOH, there is no such sliding scale (or shouldn't be) when it comes to ethics/honesty/morality. You either have them or you don't. A "white lie" is still a lie. In that sense, I say hang 'em all.


When you apply sanctuary to non-citizens putting them above the actual citizens, the penalties become mute...


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Californiadecks said:


> If they are paying tax on income they have stole someone's identity. That's a felony.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________




Sometimes yes, however they could file and pay income tax using a Individual Taxpayer Identification Number or ITIN without the need to falsely use someone else’s identity 


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

KAP said:


> When you apply sanctuary to non-citizens putting them above the actual citizens, the penalties become mute...


Which is totally irrelevant to the point of my post, and misspelled as well.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> Which is totally irrelevant to the point of my post, and misspelled as well.


 In addition to morals. etc., graduated penalties was the theme of your post... I agree they're irrelevant when they're not applied...


Don't know what was misspelled, but I blame auto-text... :laughing:


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

To TimNJ: @ post #60: Working with out insurance or payroll taxes = double wrong. Working in another Nation without permission is a Crime, just being there is a Crime with out a visa....

Conflating illegal alien labor crimes with native labor criminal acts is silly in my opinion, and is a sophomoric argument.:blink:

The problems might be remotely related, but illegal alien invasions can be 99% solved with enforcement of existing Laws.


Illegal alien invaders are like bullets, criminal firemen and Police Moonlighters are just internal cysts to our Nation's Body.....


P.S. bringing your family along with you as you smuggle yourself illegally into a foreign Nation IS CHILD ENDANGERMENT, yet another aggravating crime.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Sigh...

Irrelevant does not equal "mute". Moot perhaps, but that doesn't address the more important (IMO) issue of ethics/morality.

I'm done here.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> Sigh...
> 
> Irrelevant does not equal "mute". Moot perhaps, but that doesn't address the more important (IMO) issue of ethics/morality.
> 
> I'm done here.


OH MOOT!... :laughing:

I didn't say irrelevant = mute/moot... 

That would be your incorrect conflation...

My use of moot was in response to your graduated penalties perspective which I thought was pretty clear... you can feel free to argue with your own stated perspective but the point that graduated penalties are moot in light of sanctuary is quite relevant...


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Sadly, most Americans confuse Immoral with Illegal.

Faith based world views are rightfully excluded from the political square during healthy eras of US history.

Our nations intentional failure to educate all competent citizens on basic political history and entry level economics will doom our land to an unstoppable collapse into Tyranny and Dark Age of Misery.

Multi-Culturalism Failed in The Tower of Babel Story (A too Big to Succeed project). It is failing in the USA, France, and every where else they are suffering it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Windycity said:


> Sometimes yes, however they could file and pay income tax using a Individual Taxpayer Identification Number or ITIN without the need to falsely use someone else’s identity
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




How do they pay social security? Need a number. 


Mike.
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