# Still charging for estimates?



## Cmpletehomeserv (Jan 12, 2010)

Interesting thread a few pages back... http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/update-charging-estimates-28662/

Is anyone still charging for estimates? Obviously, a large remodel would require either an architect's drawings or if you "design-build" you will charge for working prints, but does anyone charge for estimating say... a 10,000 or under bathroom remodel? (which I do alot of!) 

Thanks!


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

I just STARTED charing for estimates about 2 weeks ago :thumbsup:

I always thought "can't be done, not in this economy, not in this market, not with this competition, not with the mis-information horse fed to consumers, etc. etc."

Then I pulled a 180. Completely changed my attitude towards consumers/the way I run my business.

So far, had about 6 inquiries. 5 of them declined. 1 of them agreed, did the site visit, signed the contract by end of week.

Now all the valuable work I've done over the years finally has value BEFORE they even sign the contract. I've always been picky for with whom I work, now I'm picky about who I'll even speak to/visit their home.

Thanks Mike Finley, Gred Di, and all of you other proponents for charging. :notworthy

Like old ladies throwing themselves at the alter, I'm calling out "Hallaluja...I see the light!":laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Heritage said:


> I just STARTED charing for estimates about 2 weeks ago :thumbsup:
> 
> I always thought "can't be done, not in this economy, not in this market, not with this competition, not with the mis-information horse fed to consumers, etc. etc."
> 
> ...


That's awesome to hear, keep thinking this way and it keeps getting better and better. Pretty soon you'll be convinced this economy is great! Anyhow, congrats!

Mike


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I would like to see it implemented for everyone, not just a select few. I haven't done it yet, still have that gut wrenching feeling of losing work because of it. I'm not in the position to do it financially, but I will have to one day to wear the big boy shoes.

The more that do, the more accepted it will become. It will start a trend soon when the word gets out.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I can't charge for bids, being a supplier, but I do require that potential customers invest some of their own time before I will invest mine.

For example, if you want a price on more than one product or option, it ain't happening on the phone unless you are already a customer. Send me a written request (email, text, or fax) with quantities and project information, and I will have your quote back to you within an hour or 2.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> That's awesome to hear, keep thinking this way and it keeps getting better and better. Pretty soon you'll be convinced this economy is great! Anyhow, congrats!
> 
> Mike


:blink:

If you were my sub and I told you that 40-60% of the time the jobs I sent you to would be a lot shorter than anticipated AND you would not get paid for them, would that make you happy?

What's the difference between that scenario and not charging for estimates? What's wrong with making your services highly valued? Valued people & services get paid for their time. 

Or maybe you could sit around, do things for others for free and wait for the economy to return to the over-bloated mess it was 5 years ago. :no: The economy is not going to be like it was a few short years, maybe ever again in our life times. It's a new age and you need to adapter, not wait. If you choose to not charge for your time, that's fine. I'm not so sure why you feel it necessary though, to knock those who do get paid for their time.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Still charging, still working and I am pretty busy... 

My monthly estimate fees usually cover my advertising and gas cost every month..


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## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

I'm kinda flirting with the "how much" taboo here. But, since most people do this for free anyway. Can I get away with it?

If you don't want to put a dollar amount... how do you arrive at the fee. Hourly, Flat Fee, Percentage, Subjective?

Believe me I'd like to do it, I've only seen one person try charging for an estimate (electrician) ... never seen him since :blink:.

Do you get any negative reactions?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

There are companies where I am getting 200-1500 bucks for an estimate.. 

Non- refundable..


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Qualified leads cost money. Trust me, as a 20 year sales guy, I know what the cost of leads can be and should be. You are going to pay for them one way or the other, either upfront for someone else to generate them for you or for you to spend the time to do so yourself. Your time and expertise is your value, the reason you are able to generate income over the cost of materials and labor. Don't waste it.


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## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

rbsremodeling said:


> There are companies where I am getting 200-1500 bucks for an estimate..
> 
> Non- refundable..


RB, your' a design-build. Is this for an estimate? or for a well put-together proposal. 

Jeez, I'd be happy getting $20 for an estimate. That would be enough to discourage the true bottom-feeders. I'd be afraid I'd insult someone, and shoot myself in the foot.

If I had to do drawings and have the customer pick my mind for hours at a time, I'd charge. (Not to say, that I have never been dupped in the past).

What I'm wondering is... do you guys charge for the initial meeting? and how do you arrive at a fee? Are you using this to vet the prospect or trying to truly get paid for your time?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

If I was a contractor doing remodels or upgrades, this is how I would work it:

The first question would be, "Do you have plans and material specifications?".
The second, assuming the the answer to that one was "No", would be, "Are you prepared to provide a deposit to get your ideas on paper?"
Assuming the answer to that was "No", I would thank them for calling me and please consider me in the future when the project was a little further along.

If the answer to the first was, "Yes", then I would be happy to bid their project.
If the answer to the second question was, "Yes", then I would be happy to meet with them and develop their project at a refundable rate upon contract signing. If they did not go with me, I would give them full rights to any plans and specifications developed upon payment of the deposit.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

The proposals are well put together.. 3-40 pages in length

Kitchen, bathroom, basement, additions, whole house remodels etc.

that fee is simply for the estimate minimal if any design work, usually just a floor plan


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Heritage said:


> I just STARTED charing for estimates about 2 weeks ago :thumbsup:
> 
> I always thought "can't be done, not in this economy, not in this market, not with this competition, not with the mis-information horse fed to consumers, etc. etc."
> 
> ...


 
I am a little confused. *1* out of 6? What was your closing rate before you started charging for estimates? If it was say 1 out of 4, who is to say you didn't lose one job and could have closed *2* out of 6? Does the one estimate charge override the odds of maybe having landed 2 paying, profitable jobs?


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## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

I agree people need to charge for what your describing. I've been sucked into doing design work for free, and then having the project delivered to someone else. I still get the process muddled somewhat, but I'm getting better at it.

I could see where it would be nice to get a fee for the initial contact, and like I mentioned, I've seen one guy try it. The reaction was what I'd fear would happen if I tried it. Fee wasn't paid, and he was thrown from consideration. 

Once while shopping for a truck, salesman wanted a deposit from me, before he'd even discuss prices. My reaction was the same, I went elsewhere. In my day-to-day it's hard to come up with examples where I'm charged for "looking" to buy. But driving to meet with customers who you know, even on the way there, probably aren't seriously realistic... blows. Just the way it is for now.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Heritage said:


> Thanks Mike Finley, Gred Di, and all of you other proponents for charging. :notworthy


You're welcome. It's a tough pill to swallow the first time, but once you get a taste, you realize just how good it tastes.

I just opened the mail and found a check for $500 waiting for me.:clap:

I probably scared off six or seven leads this week. So be it. If I had to run around like a maniac to possibly get one contract out of them, it's not worth it statistically. I'd rather be really on my game for the people willing to pay for my expertise up front and make it count.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

When you utter the words I charge for estimates, the person on the other end of the phone has to believe you mean it..

It is new and shocking for them, if you sound like a meager mouse they will pounce all over you..

Try it out on every other call, go over the objections, write them down and come up with rational explanations for them.. 

What do you have to loose, wasted time and gas chasing leads of people that don't respect your time or profession?


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> :blink:
> 
> If you were my sub and I told you that 40-60% of the time the jobs I sent you to would be a lot shorter than anticipated AND you would not get paid for them, would that make you happy?
> 
> ...


I agree, I think it's smart to put your value high, market it, and pull the right customers towards you. Once I figued this out I finally started making money. The customers that wont pay are probably not the ones you want anyhow.

Your right about the economy some people are actually trying to wait it out for it to return. 

Mike


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

I do mostly boiler replacements and upgrades.

$250 fee for consultation and proposal, and my customers get a heat loss survey and roster of materials. This fee is refunded towards a job they go ahead with. If they choose not to go with the job, they paid for the heat loss and get something of value for that.

If someone is personally referred by an existing customer, I reward that person with a waiver of the $250 fee. . . but I sure as hell let them know that they're receiving something of value for a significant discount. It's how I encourage word of mouth, not by kicking back to the referrer, but by rewarding the person who is referred. It eliminates a situation of questionable ethics. 

Anyway, for a large commercial service job, usually I'll look at it for free just because I know that we're usually the only vendor their using. The estimate fee is just there to prevent people from wasting my time.

Hope this helps

Keith

PS the $250 doesn't come close to matching a billable hourly rate for the amount of time a salesperson has to do the consultation, walk through and heat loss survey. The customer is still getting a great deal. Just breaks it even if the person doesn't want to go ahead with the project.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

boman47k said:


> I am a little confused. *1* out of 6? What was your closing rate before you started charging for estimates? If it was say 1 out of 4, who is to say you didn't lose one job and could have closed *2* out of 6? Does the one estimate charge override the odds of maybe having landed 2 paying, profitable jobs?


That's completely NOT my approach/attitude towards doing business.

I try to explain it to non-GC's and they all think I'm out to lunch.

If I was a plumber/electrician/painter/HVAC tech, etc...my main focus would be on volume. Set systems in place, wash, rinse, repeat.

I try to explain, being a GC whose main demographic is in the minority, it's a completely different animal. I'm on a job site from anywhere from 1 month to 1+ years (90% of the time).

I don't care about HOW MUCH work I'm doing.

I care about WHAT kind of work I'm doing, and for WHOM. I'll take a professional HO, who values my time (because he/she values his/her time) and has a long list of family/friends who are like minded that gives me ONE job over 10 riff-raffs anyday.

Remember when your momma told you "careful who you hang out with? birds of a feather flock together...etc.". 

If I have 10 clients that are successful/value their time/mine/value quality/don't see my company as a commodity, I'm miles ahead than if I was to have 100 deadbeat former clients on my roster.

Think long term, plant, & water the seed.

So my point wasn't "HEY look, I closed 1 in 6".
It was "HEY look, I got rid of 5 tire kickers without wasting any time AND managed to find a client that agreed to pay the fee. Now that client and I are onto a GREAT start, and I was able to set the tone of how business will be handled for the remainder of the project. That is almost priceless"

If you're not a GC, you may not get that last part but I'm sure most of you will.:thumbsup:


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