# Ever have A problem with boozed up help



## brewster62 (Mar 10, 2007)

I've been A subcontracter for 20+ yrs. now and can't seem
to find help that does'nt want to get boozed up every other 
day. and if you do find good help they like to work for you long enough to know it all and then go out on there own.
iI usaually pay the help pretty good depending on there experience. Some thoughts from fello hangers about this 
subject would be interesting ':furious: :furious: thanks'


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=19426 see post #3.

A few years ago I had one of my best guys turn to the bottle and he began producing poor work. I read the AA book, followed the advice and let him go. He joined up with AA and called me as part of his 10step process to apologize for his wrong doings.


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## brewster62 (Mar 10, 2007)

yea well the guys I've had work for me would'nt want help .
some of them even blowed there whole checks on drinking
from the time they leave work till whenever
and then wanna borrow money to run on to get back 
and forth to work.


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

I have seen allot of them drinking on new construction but it is even more amazing how many drywallers smoke crack on the job. They will even offer it to other trades _(who are not crack smokers)_ on site.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

DougChips,

That would have been his 5th step, making amends. The 10nth step deals with taking a daily inventory.

I have donated alot of time to assist once good acting people who have strayed off the moral path due to alcohol and addiction disorders. The biggest thing to do as an employer, is to read the AA book, and especially the chapter, which relates to the employers. The main body of the text, not including the stories in the rear, is only 164 pages and I would recomend any one who has to deal with addictive people and especially employees and friends and family, to read through it thoroughly.

As an employer, do not "Enable" the person by picking up the pieces for him when he has screwed up. No bail. No loans. Indifference to the consequences works best for me. I no longer have any problem employees with these problems, as Jesse and Brewster stated, it destroys otherwise good human beings. 

Ed


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

I was a friend of Bill W.


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## taper71 (Dec 5, 2006)

I am a friend of Bill .W. . I had the problem of finding good help also. I was lucky that when I learned I insulated boarded and taped . I am lucky now that with the market the way it is in Edmonton That I can just tape and I don't really need any help . I am also way privaledged that I was able to teach my wife how to tape and now we make a killing because the money stays in the familly. I really do feel bad for my former employers because I know now what I used to put them through. It is a sad fact that there are so many talented sick tradesmen out there.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I've been a friend of Bill W. for some time now. I remained involved since March of 1994. (Coincidentally, right after I was up to 27 full/part time employees). I have found alot of information about the subject and last year sponsored 2 workshop seminars. The attendance at the 2 combined was over 250 participants. 

The members told me it was phenonomouly successful, as most workshops they attended had only 10-15 attendees, and now 1 year later, I am being requested to assist in hosting another series of topics. I put together 2 very informative booklets on "Seeking Spirituality" and "Sponsorship" if any body would like to e-mail me for an upload to your actual e-mail address. We turned the humorous corner with the sponsorship workshop by putting on a skit parody of "The Dating Game". I could include my script for that as well. It is free for anyone who could put the information to good use.

Forget the PM, because I don't usually go through and delete the old ones, PM pack rat I guess. *You can e-mail me directly at rightwayroofing at juno dot com* at work and rightwayroofing at sbcglobal dot net at home, (I prefer the work address, unless its urgent)*. Stay in touch if you want to. *

PWG, you used to be a friend of his or do you still know him?

Ed


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Ed, I still know of him. My gig wasn't AA, it was NA. Same principles applied. I was given the opportunity to go to meetings or spend some considerable time behind bars. Not a hard choice. (I consider myself lucky that I have always been business minded; I was a seller, not much of a user) I learned a lot, and still apply some of those values today. I still have a beer or cocktail occasionally, but the rest of the stuff is strictly off limits. Now I need to find a Nicotine Anonymous group, and I'll be set.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Yeah, a judge gave me an option many years ago as well. I only wanted to go to find out the right answers to say, but that darned osmosis thing crept in and changed by ways for the betterment of anyone around me. 

Many of my current value structure can be found through the teachings of either program. As far as I know, all of the step programs start out with the same premise, but the grandfather of all of them is the basic initial thrust for them. There seems to be a better structure and viability from the 1st program since the frequency of meetings seem to be maintained more fervently.

Ed


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

ProWallGuy said:


> Ed, I still know of him. My gig wasn't AA, it was NA. Same principles applied. I was given the opportunity to go to meetings or spend some considerable time behind bars. Not a hard choice. (I consider myself lucky that I have always been business minded; I was a seller, not much of a user) I learned a lot, and still apply some of those values today. I still have a beer or cocktail occasionally, but the rest of the stuff is strictly off limits. Now I need to find a Nicotine Anonymous group, and I'll be set.



"I was a seller, not much of a user"-----look at your avator!

It is nice that you and Ed can share your stories, If the light bulb goes off in one members head the thread is worth its weight in gold.


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## cnydave (Mar 11, 2007)

"Hi, I'm Dave...alcoholic ect."

Theres not a drug or drink ever invented that I've never abused in my past. Don't want to get into "war stories"...

Ed the roofer nailed it in his last paragraph...j remind yourself you have no control over others thoughts or actions. We all r different.


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## 1KingOfDrywall (Jan 14, 2007)

*In the first post I Read "Ever other Day" right??*

That aint so bad.......most of them are every day all day (& night).
I got a few of them....lol
I have my " A-Team"....which is a crew of non smoking,non drinking weight lifters.
Than I got "The B Team".....my bad boys......lol
The ones you don't put on the job unless its a new construction home with no windows and everything is "nailed down" to the floor.....lol
I tell the homeowners stay outta there when they're working. Hell....one guy chews and smokes ...AT THE SAME TIME !!.....LMAO:no:
My friend.......your situation is like looking for an crocodile that you can keep as a pet......*On a serious note, I got 1 conclusion (I personally use this one) I tell my guys upfront "if you miss 1 day on this job, you just forfeited any money I might have owed you". Heres how I work it. Be on them hard to get a good 1 to 2 days or 16+ hours into the job. remind them, "if you don't show...you lost all that money".......trust me it works.*


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I've lost two salesmen to drugs. 

I found an empty carona bottle on a roof once while doing a pre-warranty inspection with the foreman of my sub crew. When I pointed it out he shrugged it off and said something to the effect that "that's just the way it is." They haven't done a job for me since.

Drugs and alcohol are somewhat par for the course in this industry. I hate to say it but to some degree we have to figure out how to operate around it. For example if someone gets married I don't schedule work for that crew for a few days. Pretty much production shuts down for a day or two after a holiday.

I don't mind if a guy gets sauced up after work is over, so long as he is in the next day and operating up to standards. I do mind if they bring it to work and that is cause for immediate 2 week suspension minimum according to the drug and alcohol policy in my employee handbook.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

> Be on them hard to get a good 1 to 2 days or 16+ hours into the job. remind them, "if you don't show...you lost all that money".......trust me it works.


I don't know where you're from, but if you try that in IL you'll see how well it "works". YOU will be in jail. That's theft. They are owed money for work already completed, period. If they work for 3 days and decide they don't want the job anymore, you still HAVE to pay them for the 3 days they worked.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I seriously no longer have that problem at all with any employees.

One guy, who is a very good and fast shingler, who was the forman about 4 years ago, was being snitched on by one or two guys via inuendo at first and then full fledged accounts of drinking on the job.

I had a discussion with the guy about it and he flat out denied everything. No proof, so no consequences. I borrowed someone elses car so I could monitor the job several additional times when they were not expecting me around, with binoculars. I saw him go down and drink out of a paper bag, but that is still not proof.

I confronted him with my suspicions, and full denial once again.

The crew thought I was going to intentionally let it slide, because they felt there word was proof enough. 

Finally, I used the other car and arrived on the job when my spidey senses were tingling and discovered him with the paper bag with a beer in it on the roof. I thanked him for relieving me of the responsibility of me not having to fire him, since he knew the consequences, he had just fired himself.

He grabbed his roofing hatchet, and said, "Hey, Ed.....Do you want to get into a fight with me?", while we were all still on the customers roof. I said no, not at this time, since I do not deal with former employees in that manner. I told him if he wanted his check, I was going back to the office to make it out for him that minute, but he could only pick it up from me, not the secretary. When he was alone with me, he was not as boisterous, and actually was moderately humbled and didn't quite apologize for his threats, because that would not have been macho, but the innuendo was there.

3 years and 4 years later, and he was looking for his job back, and I told him we were staffed just fine. Had he gone through any rehab procedures my thoughts on the matter may have been different.

BTW, the guys all know from that day on, know now what real proof and the reality of consequences are. And, that I will stick to what I told them would happen.

Ed


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

I just celebrated 15 years clean with my family on friday. For 8 years I was *on everything but skates*. Overdosed twice, spend time in jail,spent most those years as a seller just to support my habit, worked piece work for guy who was also a junkie, luckily though I had a forgiving father who let me come to work for him,but he didn't know I was using as much as I was, he thought I was just working for an addict and "experimenting". It wasn't til later that it became obvious I was using due to my pale complextion and daily actions. But At least when I went back to work for my father I wasn't using all day(though i'd sneak in a snort of something when I could,no shots or smoking though), however it cut my sales in half..it was a hard road to go down. Coming from first hand experience, you can't control them, you can't make them stop, and you can't be an accessory to thier habit and give them handouts when they blow thier money. I sponsor 3 guys, one that has been back and forth for 3 years now. He can't make it past 4 months he says, I say "no, you don't want to make it past 4 months". It is something they have to *want* to do, not something that will be forced on them. He just cleaned up again, and is in a recovery house. I told him, if he goes out again and uses, I won't be his sponsor anymore. My sponsor did it to me, and his sponsor did it to him. Most guys with serious addictions don't have anything to lose in the first place. So sometimes you have to give them something to lose, a friendship, a love, something that they consider important in thier lives.

As far as further employment...you have to make that decision. However if it were me, i'd give them the heave-ho.


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## vwovw (Mar 9, 2007)

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> I have seen allot of them drinking on new construction but it is even more amazing how many drywallers smoke crack on the job. They will even offer it to other trades _(who are not crack smokers)_ on site.


never seen crack on the job...but i've seen the hangers hanging out in the shower doing meth.:thumbsup: nice. 
I haven't had any problems with drinking on the job. just showing up hung over and worthless. I just send them home and tell them to call me in a few days. I only have 1099 subs working for me. I can't fire them or tell them how to do their job. But I can tell them were good for now I'll call you when I can use you again.:furious: If they are really needed on the job... then i tell them that this job only pays $**.00 an hour. or i'll tell them this job doesn't pay hourly it only pays you such amount when correctly finished.
I had a guy that was always hungover or missed mondays. When payday came I would just happened to get drunk and forget to write him a check. then blow him off for a few days.


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## Paul B (Mar 10, 2007)

I am a General Contractor and I mean no disrespect to anyone. I use several different plumbing and electrical contractors and never have trouble with drug or alcohol. It seems like every drywall person I use has a problem. Why do you think that is? I even questioned them about it, they don't have a reason why but they do realize it.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Reason being is because it is easier for a user to get into a job that does piece work(I.E. drywall,framing,roofing,) anything that has to do with production. Jobs that need require more technical skills, won't hire anyone that is a user of any kind. 

I do not employ anyone with a habit of alcohol or drugs, and everyone submits to a drug test prior to employment, and random times throughout the year. However I know my men pretty well and I know in my heart of hearts they don't use. They may go out and have a couple beers on a friday or something, but no one on my payroll is a hard-core user of any sort. However i've seen it in so many companies, either still drugged up or hungover from the night before, or gettin high or sauced while at work. 

But that is why. Production companies don't usually care(not saying they all don't) as long as production is being produced, and alot of times those companies pay cash daily for thier labor, which is good for the users because they can go out and get what they need. Alot of users won't work for a legitimate payroll company for that same reason, because they have to wait for thier money til friday.


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