# Trowel & Error



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

After looking at this vid, I'd have to admit that I don't shimmy the tile back and forth to collapse the ridges. I mostly tap with a mallet and haven't had any problems. How about you folks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Way5bMh-eYg


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

As long as it's damn near impossible to pull it back up to check for coverage, and you do have full coverage, then you're good.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Notice the u-notched trowel? Towards the end they were using a euro large format trowel.

I’ve never done the dot and dab or pound in place. Always done the shake.

Tom


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

The u-notch seems like a good idea after all.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Yes but the question is why are you looking at how to's on Youtube?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

avenge said:


> Yes but the question is why are you looking at how to's on Youtube?


It popped up on the side of my youtube page, and I'm curious. Maybe the AI figured I need help. :laughing:


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

MarkJames said:


> It popped up on the side of my youtube page, and I'm curious. Maybe the AI figured I need help. :laughing:


I watch stuff on there occasionally, I don’t know everything and there are some real professionals who make videos. Manufacturers who demonstrate new products are also usually watchable.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Golden view said:


> As long as it's damn near impossible to pull it back up to check for coverage, and you do have full coverage, then you're good.


There can be full coverage at the edges and a hollow center and you can barely get the tile up. Trying to raise the tile your fighting the bond and the "suction" created by the void. I find it harder to raise tiles with hollows than near full or full mortar coverage. 

Anybody use the bucket trowel I see in a lot of the videos? I'm considering one, just not sure if it's better than the margin trowel. 

Tom


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The glass was a cool trick to see how the mortar reacted.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

For those who don't tile a lot but want a variety of trowels. 

http://www.barwalt.com/index.php/products/trowels/ultralife-trowel-system/

https://www.tiletools.com/product/b...rXt2o4VKvqMbd7WuLswAVxKUVlR6ccQEaAv95EALw_wcB

Tom


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## gowings (Nov 10, 2013)

I looked at that system. Yea me I'd have half of them in my big rubbermaid container because I was in a hurry and said i'll get those in there later.

I was looking at the grout bucket system. Anyone use those on a reg. basis. Me. Its 2-5 gal. pails and 3 or 4 sponges. Then change water 2 or 3 times.

Better yet someone make a tool to remove those pesky tile leveller clips that randomly don't snap off underneath. Always seem to have 3 or 4. I notice the guru Sal even had a few on his videos but didn't show how he removed them


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I use the Ramondi bucket. I like the big sponges with the handle on urethane grout. I do change the water often.

Tom


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## gowings (Nov 10, 2013)

tjbnwi said:


> I use the Ramondi bucket. I like the big sponges with the handle on urethane grout. I do change the water often.
> 
> Tom


Tom
How about on regular cement based grouts and 
say a glass 30 sq ft.Kitchen backsplash do you still use the bucket.
I just assumed those wash systems were for large jobs


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

gowings said:


> Tom
> How about on regular cement based grouts and
> say a glass 30 sq ft.Kitchen backsplash do you still use the bucket.
> I just assumed those wash systems were for large jobs


Yes, but I use their 5x11 instead of the 7x14. 

I like how dry you can get the sponge with the rollers in the bucket. It takes some getting used to, but worth the effort to figure it out. 

Tom


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

tjbnwi said:


> Yes, but I use their 5x11 instead of the 7x14.
> 
> I like how dry you can get the sponge with the rollers in the bucket. It takes some getting used to, but worth the effort to figure it out.
> 
> Tom


We haven't figured out how to get it dry...

The guys don't like to use it. What's the trick?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

It seems like yellow sponges from HD are harder to squeeze out than they used to be. I could use an upgrade. Anybody have a better option?

This looks the ones that I used to use and like.
http://www.lewiscontractorsales.com...MIpYiAgfW22AIVlLXACh0YUgAZEAQYBCABEgJNJfD_BwE

Or these....Hydra XL grout sponges.

http://www.contractorsdirect.com/Hydra-XL-Tile-Grout-Sponge


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> We haven't figured out how to get it dry...
> 
> The guys don't like to use it. What's the trick?


Get new guys...

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> It seems like yellow sponges from HD are harder to squeeze out than they used to be. I could use an upgrade. Anybody have a better option?
> 
> This looks the ones that I used to use and like.
> http://www.lewiscontractorsales.com...MIpYiAgfW22AIVlLXACh0YUgAZEAQYBCABEgJNJfD_BwE


I hear these are good, I've never used them. 

http://www.tools4flooring.com/ardex-t-7-square-grout-sponge.html

Tom


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm having a New Year's eureka moment right about now..."why do I still have these [email protected] tools" (sponges in this case).....

Ever get that feeling? :wallbash:

The grout on my basement floor a few weeks ago suffered a little bit from a bad sponge and a lousy helper. I blame myself. Thank goodness the grout was a similar color to the tile, so it looked like an effect. :jester:


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

can you tell me more about the Riamondi bucket Tom? Is it effective when using the single stage grouts (ie Flexcolor CQ)?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

AustinDB said:


> can you tell me more about the Riamondi bucket Tom? Is it effective when using the single stage grouts (ie Flexcolor CQ)?


That is the grout I use. 

I like the handle, separation of product in bucket, rollers to "wring" the sponge out. 

You still have to change the water often with the CQ. 

Tom


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I found some sponges from a local janitorial supply house. They are 2" thick and appox 4x7. They have sharp, square edges which I really like. I will get a brand for them. They work great for me on urethane. 

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


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## gowings (Nov 10, 2013)

tjbnwi said:


> I hear these are good, I've never used them.
> 
> http://www.tools4flooring.com/ardex-t-7-square-grout-sponge.html
> 
> Tom


I use these exact ones.
They hold up well and the square edges are a plus.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> After looking at this vid, I'd have to admit that I don't shimmy the tile back and forth to collapse the ridges. I mostly tap with a mallet and haven't had any problems. How about you folks?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Way5bMh-eYg


I found the video interesting and informative.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

avenge said:


> Yes but the question is why are you looking at how to's on Youtube?


This video is not just a how to video. It was produced by the NTCA (National Tile Contractors Association). It's one of the best videos on the how and the why on setting tile.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

gowings said:


> I looked at that system. Yea me I'd have half of them in my big rubbermaid container because I was in a hurry and said i'll get those in there later.
> 
> I was looking at the grout bucket system. Anyone use those on a reg. basis. Me. Its 2-5 gal. pails and 3 or 4 sponges. Then change water 2 or 3 times.
> 
> Better yet someone make a tool to remove those pesky tile leveller clips that randomly don't snap off underneath. Always seem to have 3 or 4. I notice the guru Sal even had a few on his videos but didn't show how he removed them


For one, keep your work clean, but when they do occur you just use a pair of needle nose. Keep the pliers away from the tile and wiggle like a loose tooth.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

gowings said:


> I use these exact ones.
> They hold up well and the square edges are a plus.


They don't play nice with Flexcolor or some urethanes. They are great for cementous products.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> This video is not just a how to video. It was produced by the NTCA (National Tile Contractors Association). It's one of the best videos on the how and the why on setting tile.


Didn't even watch the video but yes the only ones I run across that are worth watching are from manufacturers, etc.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

gowings said:


> Better yet someone make a tool to remove those pesky tile leveller clips that randomly don't snap off underneath. Always seem to have 3 or 4. I notice the guru Sal even had a few on his videos but didn't show how he removed them


I find they don't break cleanly if there is to much mortar around the leg. I scrape the mortar away with a dental pick, push sideways on the leg and it pops off. 

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I save the sponges that come in the Flexcolor bucket. I do wish they were a little larger. Other than that they're great for clean up.

Tom


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## Bedfordboy116 (May 11, 2014)

tjbnwi said:


> Get new guys...
> 
> Tom


Hey now....


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> We haven't figured out how to get it dry...
> 
> The guys don't like to use it. What's the trick?





tjbnwi said:


> Get new guys...
> 
> Tom





Bedfordboy116 said:


> Hey now....


You haven't been here long enough to know/understand the dynamic between Travis and I. I'm sure he got it.

Tom


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## Bedfordboy116 (May 11, 2014)

tjbnwi said:


> You haven't been here long enough to know/understand the dynamic between Travis and I. I'm sure he got it.
> 
> 
> 
> Tom




I got it. Just messing. I do think it was useful for cement grout on floors, which we were still doing back when we got that bucket. Never could get it as dry as a normal sponge, but it didn’t seem to be an issue. However now that we almost exclusively use urethane, we use microfiber sponges/rags. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Bedfordboy116 said:


> I got it. Just messing. I do think it was useful for cement grout on floors, which we were still doing back when we got that bucket. Never could get it as dry as a normal sponge, but it didn’t seem to be an issue. However now that we almost exclusively use urethane, we use microfiber sponges/rags.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Making enough for you to join us for dinner....

(I'm slow, remembered after I reread your name...sorry)

Tom


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## Bedfordboy116 (May 11, 2014)

tjbnwi said:


> Making enough for you to join us for dinner....
> 
> (I'm slow, remembered after I reread your name...sorry)
> 
> Tom


If you weren't 14 hours away....wife says no anyway


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Bedfordboy116 said:


> If you weren't 14 hours away....wife says no anyway


Bring the wife.

Tom


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

I didn't watch the vid. When I lay tile I butt the tile up tight to the others and then gently push down and away to open up the grout space. This keeps the thin-set from smooshing up into my grout line and sets the tile. It makes for a real nice clean lay and I dont have to keep cleaning out the joints.


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## Bedfordboy116 (May 11, 2014)

tjbnwi said:


> Bring the wife.
> 
> Tom


Good luck swinging that...


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

OK, I went back and watched the vid..IMO too much of that shimmy-shimmy stuff is going to ooze thinset all over the place and make a big mess. Just a gentle slide against the grain is suffice... just like they showed using the piece of glass.

But as I mentioned I like to butt the tile tight against the others, lay it, then slide and push it to keep grout space clear.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

kirkdc said:


> OK, I went back and watched the vid..IMO too much of that shimmy-shimmy stuff is going to ooze thinset all over the place and make a big mess. Just a gentle slide against the grain is suffice... just like they showed using the piece of glass.
> 
> But as I mentioned I like to butt the tile tight against the others, lay it, then slide and push it to keep grout space clear.


Gentle doesn't get the air out and to achieve 85% on non wet areas and 95% in wet areas you have to release the air. And it won't ooze thin set if you do it properly. That is what the proper trowel size does. It only allows the right amount of mortar to collapse the ridges and fill the voids. :thumbsup:


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

double post.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

"firm" may be a better word. The consistancy of the thinset factors in as well. And I often pluck a tile off to check adhesion. I should have mentioned trowels too. Yes, size matters.


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