# Young carpenter in need of advice



## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

So I'll start by saying I'm a 22 year old carpenter. I only have 2 years experience framing/finish and everything in between. I'm employed by a small but steady builder with our main focus being flipping houses. The work is steady but Im concerned I'm not in with the right guys. I love all aspects of carpentry work and working with wood, but flipping houses feels so unrewarding to me. I love building and refinishing decks, and would love it more if I was working for myself. Should I take a stab at doing my own jobs or continue on dragging myself to the site each morning?


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

I understand your predicament exactly.
The company I am currently with has some less than desirable practices, but they keep food on my plate...until recently.
The area I am in has had a very slow year for most companies, and we have recently hit a slow spot as well; which has led to the temporary layoff I am having at this moment.
I've wanted to go out on my own as well to help in the downtimes but very quickly realized that it's difficult to accomplish if you're not prepared.
First; do you have the experience required to tackle jobs on your own?
Second; do you have all the proper systems in place to legally perform work on your own?
If you can't positively answer either of these questions, I'd say jump ship with your current employer for one that provides gainful and meaningful employment and experience, get a mentor for your business, and start saving money for your start up costs.
Keep dragging yourself to site every day, do your best, get some more experience, and keep saving money in the meantime.


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

You're 22, hang out for a while. You will have plenty of time to run your own show later. It's not all it's cracked up to be, I promise. You have a steady check that doesn't involve crime or fry oil at 22, you're doing fine.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

You might want to explore your options with different jobs as an employee first. 

Its easy to get bored with one niche of carpentry working for one crew and feel like youre a pro (or nearly). 

Not saying that, wanting to work independently, you necessarily think you know it all, but theres a lot more to know than you realize.

Flipping tends to be a "quick and dirty" or "make it look good enough to get rid of" game. It might be cool to take a job working for a company that does nice, meticulous installations to see the other side of the industry.

There are also so many more things to consider when working independently, including billing&collection, disputes with clients, estimated quarterly taxes, insurance, licensing, bidding and pricing, contracts....


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

I helped frame and finish a 6 million dollar home on the ocean and I enjoyed that flipping homes seems like hack work to me. And I realize I am by no means a "pro".

I do know that I am a good apprentice if you will giving what I have to reference. I am always eager to learn. I ask lots of questions. I like to know why I am doing things not just how to get it done. I show up on time and everyday ready to work unlike most of my crew(including my boss)

But all that aside I know I'm not nearly prepared to take on the full responsibility of successful company. Just curious about some of my employers practices. He pays us as subs (10 99). Requires us to drive long distances with no compensation for fuel. He also asks me to use my truck for a lot of job related activity's which isnt a big deal, but to top it off he offers no benefits, holiday pay or time and a half for overtime. Is he taking advantage of me?


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

ECcarpenter said:


> I helped frame and finish a 6 million dollar home on the ocean and I enjoyed that flipping homes seems like hack work to me. And I realize I am by no means a "pro". I do know that I am a good apprentice if you will giving what I have to reference. I am always eager to learn. I ask lots of questions. I like to know why I am doing things not just how to get it done. I show up on time and everyday ready to work unlike most of my crew(including my boss) But all that aside I know I'm not nearly prepared to take on the full responsibility of successful company. Just curious about some of my employers practices. He pays us as subs (10 99). Requires us to drive long distances with no compensation for fuel. He also asks me to use my truck for a lot of job related activity's which isnt a big deal, but to top it off he offers no benefits, holiday pay or time and a half for overtime. Is he taking advantage of me?


 youre describing my first employer. He tried to justify 1099 and all that crap. Youre surely marketable to a better company thats going to take care of you and treat you more fairly. 

Exact same thing with this guy making guys beat up their trucks by offering $1 extra / hr and used them as main job vehicle. 

At one point he told everyone if they couldnt wait a few weeks to be paid, take theor last check and leave.

Worst part is, outside of work, i always liked the guy....

Get the fk out of there


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

ECcarpenter said:


> I helped frame and finish a 6 million dollar home on the ocean and I enjoyed that flipping homes seems like hack work to me. And I realize I am by no means a "pro". I do know that I am a good apprentice if you will giving what I have to reference. I am always eager to learn. I ask lots of questions. I like to know why I am doing things not just how to get it done. I show up on time and everyday ready to work unlike most of my crew(including my boss) But all that aside I know I'm not nearly prepared to take on the full responsibility of successful company. Just curious about some of my employers practices. He pays us as subs (10 99). Requires us to drive long distances with no compensation for fuel. He also asks me to use my truck for a lot of job related activity's which isnt a big deal, but to top it off he offers no benefits, holiday pay or time and a half for overtime. Is he taking advantage of me?


Yes. And what he's doing is illegal. 

Find a new place of employment. 

After you do that, you can kick around the idea of calling the labor board on him. If and when you go on your own, this guy will be your "competition" in a sense. It would help even the playing field if he's doing things on the up and up.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

EC:

Where are you located? A lot of guys on this site, including myself, are always looking to hire guys like yourself. You are caught in the 1099 trap like a lot of young guys in the trade. Don't stay stuck there. You also have no protection for a job site injury. Start looking for a job as a real employee. You may not get Holiday pay or medical benefits, but you will have the overtime requirement and coverage by Workers Compensation as well as Unemployment eligibility.


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm in the Boston area, I would love to start somewhere new, but I'm sure if I left for a new job my boss would give me a ****ty reference. I'm his go to guy as of now and because my crew is on the older side and most have back problems I pick up a lot of the slack so I could see him being a bit spiteful about it


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

ECcarpenter said:


> I'm in the Boston area, I would love to start somewhere new, but I'm sure if I left for a new job my boss would give me a ****ty reference. I'm his go to guy as of now and because my crew is on the older side and most have back problems I pick up a lot of the slack so I could see him being a bit spiteful about it


He ain't gonna take care of you when YOUR back goes out. 

Easier said than done, but get out now.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Yeah, get out of there. I imagine in the Boston area there has to be some good carpenters to work for.

Ask around at the lumber yards. They probably know people who are hiring.


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

See if you can catch on with Tom Silva. You might learn something from him. And maybe even be on TV


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

Who's that lol


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

JR Shepstone said:


> See if you can catch on with Tom Silva. You might learn something from him. And maybe even be on TV


man, thatd be wicked pissah


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

ECcarpenter said:


> Who's that lol


Whaaaat? You gotta start watching TOH on Saturdays...


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

*Who is Tom Silva*

http://silvabrothers.com/

^^That's his company^^^

This is his website http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/

Here is his tv show WHICH HAS BEEN ON FOR 35 YEARS http://video.pbs.org/program/old-house/


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

ECcarpenter said:


> I'm in the Boston area, I would love to start somewhere new, but I'm sure if I left for a new job my boss would give me a ****ty reference. I'm his go to guy as of now and because my crew is on the older side and most have back problems I pick up a lot of the slack so I could see him being a bit spiteful about it


who says you need a reference? go on craigslist and call about any carpentry jobs that sound good. the sooner, the better. but there's no way you're ready to go out on your own after 2 years. you'll drown.


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

Most all want some sort of reference and resume. And the ones that don't may be worse situations than the one I'm in. I know its worth a shot to find out.
Also I didn't mean to come off as 
arrogant by asking if I should go out on my own. I know I dont have the knowledge to go out and start framing new builds for customers, I was thinking more along the lines of re decking some porches. Or building small simple decks. Im well aware its not a smart move just feel stuck in mediocre job


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

references and resumes don't mean anything. if anything, the more fluffed out a resume is the more full of **** a guy usually is. just call whatever ads have phone numbers listed and shoot the bull with the guy then show up and put your money where your mouth is since that's all that matters anyway.


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

I almost want to leave my area all together every new build out here is garbage. Ultra simple. wide open floor plan vinyl siding and windows. A 3 bed 2.5 bath will run u 750k


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

Although there are crews out here that do amazing work as well. Guess its just my boss


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

Make a resume if they want one so bad. Google some stuff and see how to do it. 

If they want a reference, give them a previous employer other than this guy. And when they ask why you didn't list him, tell them he's not doing things how he should be and you want to do better. 

You'll know they're halfway decent if they agree he's a jerkoff. Maybe they'll even feel some empathy for you and your situation, knowing you know how thing should work, and maybe they'll even offer you a job.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

asgoodasdead said:


> who says you need a reference? go on craigslist and call about any carpentry jobs that sound good. the sooner, the better. but there's no way you're ready to go out on your own after 2 years. you'll drown.


I went out on my own after 2 years. It was a mess at first, but I've finally got a pretty good handle on it. I've made plenty of mistakes, been taken advantage of, but I learned from it all and have myself in a pretty good position. But if I were to do it all over again, I would have stuck it out as an employee for another 5 years or so.


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

aaron_a said:


> I went out on my own after 2 years. It was a mess at first, but I've finally got a pretty good handle on it. I've made plenty of mistakes, been taken advantage of, but I learned from it all and have myself in a pretty good position. But if I were to do it all over again, I would have stuck it out as an employee for another 5 years or so.


What kind of jobs did u do at first


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

ECcarpenter said:


> What kind of jobs did u do at first


A lot of small stuff. Mostly drywall and repair stuff, then I started picking stuff up off of craigslist for a while. I picked up a couple jobs for homeowner gc's which sucked. 

Then I got in a with a real estate agent who does a lot of flips. I ended up doing a lot of work on his personal home soon after that, and got a ton of referrals from him. He gives my name out a lot when he sells houses now which is pretty nice. I don't work on his flips anymore because I'm too expensive for that these days.

Starting it like that has been rough though, I'm still learning and growing. I'm really trying hard to get myself into the high end market in my area now. It's kinda tough because so much work comes through referrals, and most of my client base isn't in that market right now.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Move to New Jersey, I'll hire you. Unless you talk like you're from Fall River. There's no getting around that. Saaaaahrry.


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## j_sims (Jul 5, 2007)

Yes I think you should keep dragging yourself to jobsites for a while longer. Maybe not with the same employer...but stay employed. Doing side jobs would be a plus, As long as it doesn't interfere with your job or you "future boss". (don't want to step on any toes)
Not only for the experience, but it's the perfect time to make either mental notes or write them down on how long a particular task takes you. A database of that will be invaluable when you do decide to kick off on your own.

Wouldn't hurt to get knowledgeable about business during that time. Either by night school or just reading (if your disciplined).

Start a Business savings account NOW. I wish I would have had at least 6 months to a year of operating expenses.

Read, read, read industry magazines, books whatever! 
AND last but not least stay tuned to C.T. !!! :thumbsup:


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Jump on with an established remodeling company.

The problem solving skills you will develop from that experience will be much more rewarding and one step closer to going out on your own.

X2 with silva bros.

If you can get an interview with them, don't hesitate.


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

Haha don't think that's a realistic option but I wouldn't


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Get an online membership to fine homebuilding and journal of light construction, that way you have access to all of their back issues. Lots of good knowledge there. I wouldn't bother with an actual subscription to fine homebuilding anymore, but the online database is nice.

And yeah, side jobs and start up capital are a great idea. I started out on a shoestring budget and was terrified of going broke for years...


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## JAH (Jul 27, 2014)

ECcarpenter said:


> I'm in the Boston area, I would love to start somewhere new, but I'm sure if I left for a new job my boss would give me a ****ty reference. I'm his go to guy as of now and because my crew is on the older side and most have back problems I pick up a lot of the slack so I could see him being a bit spiteful about it


F- your boss...

We do most of our work in the Sudbury, Concord, Lexington area. Any decent employer will at least make a attempt to help you with fuel because his crappy crew is not prepared. The 10-99 thing is a tell tale sign your boss is a douche.
Around here we are going strong into the winter months. At this point in time and through the winter I have unlimited OT. My employer is begging me for extra hours. 
If I were in your shoes I would find a quality remodeler and work with him for a few years. Then think about a start up.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

Contact this group and let them know you want to attend a meeting and network with remodelers. http://www.bragb.org


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

JAH said:


> F- your boss...
> 
> We do most of our work in the Sudbury, Concord, Lexington area. Any decent employer will at least make a attempt to help you with fuel because his crappy crew is not prepared. The 10-99 thing is a tell tale sign your boss is a douche.
> Around here we are going strong into the winter months. At this point in time and through the winter I have unlimited OT. My employer is begging me for extra hours.
> If I were in your shoes I would find a quality remodeler and work with him for a few years. Then think about a start up.


If there's ever an opening let me know I live in maynard


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## JAH (Jul 27, 2014)

ECcarpenter said:


> If there's ever an opening let me know I live in maynard


"Only in Maynard" :laughing:
There is a lot of good builders and remodelers with nice projects around you. Finding a good job should not be hard.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

ECcarpenter said:


> Haha don't think that's a realistic option but I wouldn't


You're gonna have to " splain that one, Lucy."


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

tenon0774 said:


> You're gonna have to " splain that one, Lucy."


Getting an interview with Silva bros.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

ECcarpenter said:


> Getting an interview with Silva bros.


No, I got that.

Why don't you think that's realistic?


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## ECcarpenter (Oct 23, 2014)

I figure a company like that has limited space for inexperienced carpenters


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

ECcarpenter said:


> I figure a company like that has limited space for inexperienced carpenters


Never know, unless you ask.

Another entrepreneurial lesson, free of charge.


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## Tylerwalker32 (Jun 27, 2011)

ECcarpenter said:


> I figure a company like that has limited space for inexperienced carpenters


 I've seen where they take apprentices and teach them. And I emailed them once about a job, the got right back to me. Things didn't work out but he all they can say is no.


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