# Illegal immigrant entitled to workers' comp



## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

Not sure how I feel about this. I mean, the company probably paid premium on his wages, so he is due his compensation. But then there's the whole illegal thing to get past.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130104/NEWS/701049915/1685#court-illegal-immigrant-entitled-to-workers-comp



LINCOLN — David Gutierrez was left physically unable to work after his foot was run over by a forklift on the job at Omaha's Quality Pork International packing house in August 2008.

Trouble is, he was not able, legally, to hold a job at the meat plant. Gutierrez was the false name assumed by illegal immigrant Ricardo Moyera when he used purchased documents to land the job in March 2007.

In a case that went to the Nebraska Supreme Court, Moyera's employers argued that they should not have to pay an estimated $2 million over the rest of the worker's life to cover his lost wages and medical costs.

On Friday, the Nebraska Supreme Court ruled that Moyera, despite being an illegal immigrant from Mexico, is entitled to workers' compensation payments through his employer for his on-the-job injury.

It was the first time the high court has held that illegal immigrants are protected by state workers' compensation laws. The decision adopted and expanded a similar ruling made by the midlevel Nebraska Court of Appeals in 2009.

Written by Judge William Connolly, Friday's opinion followed the lead of other courts across the country. Those courts have reasoned that excluding workers in the U.S.

illegally from disability benefits creates a financial incentive to hire illegal immigrants and gives scofflaw employers an advantage over competitors who follow the law.

“This is an issue that's been rumbling and rumbling for years,” said Moyera's attorney, Michael P. Dowd of Omaha. “This is the first time it's been pushed to the point where we're going to decide this issue.”

Dowd said an increasing number of his clients are Spanish-speaking immigrants — from Mexico as well as from Cuba, El Salvador, Guatemala and elsewhere. He said those workers often are vulnerable to serious injury because they take dangerous jobs others won't accept. Many, such as Moyera, speak no English.

No tax dollars were directly at stake in the case. Workers' compensation benefits are financed by employers, who are mandated by law to carry workers' compensation insurance. The system is intended to limit employers' liability while providing injured workers an avenue for quick resolution of their claims.

In fact, Dowd argued that the ruling could save taxpayer expense by requiring the company to foot the bill for Moyera's injuries instead of leaving him to seek indigent health care.

“This decision really protects the taxpayers by maintaining the burden and the cost on the employer, who is the one deriving benefits from the worker's labor,” he said.

The lawyer representing the company was out of the office and unavailable to comment Friday. Officials with the company also declined to comment.

Dowd said Moyera is married and the father of three children born in the United States.

The forklift accident, which occurred when he was 29, broke several bones in Moyera's foot and led to reflex sympathetic dystrophy, a painful nerve disorder. He also suffers severe back and hip pain and must use a cane to walk. A mutually agreed upon rehabilitation expert concluded that Moyera had lost 100 percent of his earning capacity as a result of the injury.

Moyera's approximate benefits would include $333.88 per week for lost wages during his remaining life expectancy, plus $987 per month for his pain medication and about $2,000 per year for other medical expenses, said Dowd, who estimated the total cost to the company at more than $2 million.

After the injury, the pork packinghouse assigned Moyera to a light-duty janitorial position that enabled him to elevate his foot when it swelled. But in May 2010, after the company's personnel manager audited employment files, Moyera was fired for lack of proper immigration documents.

Attorneys for the packing plant challenged a Workers' Compensation Court finding in Moyera's favor. They pointed to a 2005 Nebraska Supreme Court ruling that illegal immigrants are not entitled to vocational rehabilitation services because they are not employable in the United States.

The attorneys contended that benefits for a permanent loss of earning power also should depend on an employee's ability to obtain lawful employment. Moyera had no earning capacity to lose, they argued, because his lack of English and his immigration status would prevent him from getting a new job in this country.

The high court, however, made a distinction between vocational rehabilitation and disability compensation. Connolly wrote that vocational rehabilitation services, intended to help a worker move into a new career, are triggered when a workplace injury prevents an employee from returning to the same job or a similar one. If a worker's immigration status makes him ineligible to return to work, the Workers' Compensation Court cannot order retraining for a different career.

In contrast, the court said, disability benefits reflect that the work-related injury prevents the employee from working in the United States or elsewhere.

The court also noted that the language of state workers' compensation law says it applies to “aliens” without a specific requirement that immigrants be in the United States legally.

“We agree that the ordinary meaning of 'aliens' is broad enough to include both legal and illegal aliens, with or without work authorization,” Connolly wrote, endorsing the Court of Appeals' reasoning. “Moreover, if it was the intent of the Nebraska Legislature to exclude illegal aliens from the definition of covered employees or workers, it could have easily included a modifier doing so in the statute, but the Legislature did not, and has not, done so.”

Contact the writer: 402-473-9581, [email protected]
Copyright ©2013 Omaha World-Herald. All rights reserved. This mat


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

3........2..........1.......... Basement!


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

In Rome they couldn't crucify or lash a citizen, just the non citizens. I suppose in 5 years he couldn't have gotten citizenship? Even while his case was pending, in a show of good faith? :whistling


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

He should be suing the employer that illegally hired him..not wc


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

How is it possible for him to lose 100% of his earning capabilities?

He can sit down and do an assembly job with his hands. It's really not the fault of the company for getting duped by the illegal. That's called being scammed and it happens all the time to people who are looking out for it. They've become good at scamming and that is how they work the system.

I figure this guy needs to have a fatal accident in the near future.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

If he spoke English he might be more aware of safety issues,understood
his trainer,and been able to read the sign about putting his foot where
it shouldn't have been in the first place.

I always wonder how a couple local guys explain how to do something to
their non English speaking employees,then leave them alone on a job
with a HO he can't communicate with.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

yea..i guess your right


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

oldfrt said:


> If he spoke English he might be more aware of safety issues,understood
> his trainer,and been able to read the sign about putting his foot where
> it shouldn't have been in the first place.
> 
> ...


Sometime I wish the a$$hole carpenters couldn't speak english, for the bs its cost me.:whistling


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Leo G said:


> I figure this guy needs to have a fatal accident in the near future.


Are you serious?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

He crossed the border illegally.

He lied to get the job.

He was dumb enough to get his foot under a forklift.

He gets a lawyer to say he has lost 100% of his earning potential, another lie.

He is going to scam this business for wages the rest of his life, including after retirement age which he wouldn't have been working there anyway as most labor jobs don't come with a pension.

His life was to scam and lie his way through.

People get what they deserve. And he doesn't deserve a free ride.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

I would never wish death upon a human just because they were unfortunate. I'm glad I'm not you.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

yea! go get em!
He only lost 100 % of the job he was doing. He can still work. There are *****loads of jobs out there should one apply himself and get off the socialism they are vying for.

Lets say he got a job @ a company that sold internet products, or an seo dude, or any internet based business. Only need your hands and and you mind. 

So if he got carpel tunnel from typing could he get another 100%


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

Anti-wingnut said:


> I would never wish death upon a human just because they were unfortunate. I'm glad I'm not you.


One must differentiat the difference between a human and a parasite. The human born with the problem, human.
Parasite that lives off the problem and refuses to better himself, parasite.

Death on this earth is the destination, life is the journey, parasitical life brings death to those who try to make a difference, by dragging down the living with overtaxation.

You and me pay and pay and pay for subsidized crap, that wasn't in existance 100 years ago.

Should we keep having to paying for parasites we will ourselves not have this very country as we know it.


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## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

Maybe you could hire him Wing nut. You could probably get him for half price since he's damaged goods.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Falsifying identity documents? Should be enough to get it thrown out of court and the illeagal deported.










The employer and goverment should file forgery and fraud charges against the illeagal.:thumbsup:


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

This dude is a human being first. He got hurt, on the job. He should never have been hired for legally. The WC was paid legally and there to aid the Human being in getting his ankle repaired. That is all right and correct, not even the dumbest idiots deserve to go through life with an injury like that, if there are means to 'help'. Wishing him harm-not so positive in my book, although understandable.

After that he's here illegally. He's been outed as being here illegally. By of all things, the legal profession (speak volumes of the inane nature of this aspect of the legal system) - DEPORT HIM


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Nothing in the article showed me that the employee was a burden on the system. It may be the case but it wasn't in the article. Taxes were paid if he was on the payroll. I also don't think that he should be denied WC if he was hurt on the job. That rewards the employer. In my experience the employers aren't the victims, they usually know they have undocumented workers. If you show me otherwise in this case then my opinion would change.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Leo G said:


> People get what they deserve. And he doesn't deserve a free ride.


While this may be true and I agree with, three kids would be without a father.

I agree with the rest of your points though.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Let's be real. Many of those big companies are clearly aware of the employees immigration status. Heck, they probably go about helping them get through the paperwork thing. They are just looking for an excuse to get out of their obligations.

Quit hating on the illegals, and step up your own game


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

So I wonder what he will teach these kids of his.

That coming over as an illegal greatly helped him, and that they should think this way.

That getting hurt on the job as an illegal will get you a free ride for your entire life?

I feel sorry for the kids for having a father that would break all kinds of laws to make his living. I don't blame him for trying to feed his family. But, there are many ways he could have done so legally.

1st and foremost would have been to come here legally with the proper documentation. Not slink across the border and dupe a business with falsified documents to hire him.

I guess you can look at it two ways.

He is a dedicated family man that will go to any lengths to feed his family.

He is a criminal.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

This guy is illegal. He has NO rights here.

Why does he deserve anything? He doesn't. Other than a predetermined sentence in a cold prison followed by a seat on a government funded plane ride for him and his cane.

If we (citizens) break the law we go to jail and our children are without their parent, this should be no different. 

I think this is all bullchit. He gave forged documents, that's illegal. He doesn't deserve to be here working or living in the first place. 

No our system to get here legally isn't perfect but so what? You file and wait like your supposed to. Try a work visa.

Again, he has NO rights. He should get NOTHING. 

NOTHING except a swift kick back to wherever he came. His country's issues are not OUR problem. 

Hearing gross injustices like this really pisses me off


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

What would happen if I had a fake driver's license, fake license plates on my vehicle and a fake set of insurance documents AND I got into a car accident?

During the investigation, I would be the one in trouble whether I was at fault or not.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Leo G said:


> He is a dedicated family man that will go to any lengths to feed his family.
> 
> He is a criminal.


I choose the former.

I'm not pro illegal immigrant, but I blame our screwed up gov more than I do the man trying to better his life. Try imagining yourself being born to different circumstance & think of the lengths you would go to improve yours & your families lives. I know you would think of me as a criminal too.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

pinwheel said:


> I choose the former.
> 
> I'm not pro illegal immigrant, but I blame our screwed up gov more than I do the man trying to better his life. Try imagining yourself being born to different circumstance & think of the lengths you would go to improve yours & your families lives. I know you would think of me as a criminal too.


But you would do that all with the risk of going to jail, or being penalized financially. Nit be rewarded with financial stability for life. 

There is an obvious difference whether people choose ti acknowledge it or not.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

People always tend to think in terms of these outrageous financial awards as some one elses money. 

It's not, its yours and my money, being ripped out of our hands by higher insurance rates, greater cost of doing business etc. 

Once people start to realize this, the attitude will change. Till than we will have bleeding heart liberals with the massive giveaway attitude so prevelant in this country.

Maybe when he gets his check he'll qualify as one of the evil few in this country who make over 400k, and have to have BARACK redistibute it for him. 39% + state and local taxes and his attorney will get 1/3

Than he'll have to get his other foot run over.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

SSC said:


> But you would do that all with the risk of going to jail, or being penalized financially. Nit be rewarded with financial stability for life.
> 
> There is an obvious difference whether people choose ti acknowledge it or not.


I was addressing Leo's question, not the entire debate. I challenge all of you to ask yourself that question, what would you do for you & yours if you were born into a different set of circumstances beyond your control. It's easy to pass judgement from this side of the border. It's easy to take for granted all we have, while looking down our noses at those who were born to different circumstances.

I have huge respect for those working hard & making sacrifice to better their own lives. Hell, this country was founded on these very principles.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

pinwheel said:


> I was addressing Leo's question, not the entire debate. I challenge all of you to ask yourself that question, what would you do for you & yours if you were born into a different set of circumstances beyond your control. It's easy to pass judgement from this side of the border. It's easy to take for granted all we have, while looking down our noses at those who were born to different circumstances.
> 
> I have huge respect for those working hard & making sacrifice to better their own lives. Hell, this country was founded on these very principles.


That's all well and good and I have respect for those men and women as well...those men and women who do it LEGALLY. 

Not the quick, easy, illegal way. That's why their called illegals in the first place.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

killerdecks said:


> Your missing the point about fraudelent papers the worker had.


If that is the point, more blame should be placed on the emloyer. As someone mentioned, the fact that the guy did not speak English, does raise a red flag.

Fact is the employer was aware of the immigration status, and false papers, but turned a blind eye. They have been known to throw the batos under the bus, and something should be done about that.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> I was addressing Leo's question, not the entire debate. I challenge all of you to ask yourself that question, what would you do for you & yours if you were born into a different set of circumstances beyond your control. It's easy to pass judgement from this side of the border. It's easy to take for granted all we have, while looking down our noses at those who were born to different circumstances.
> 
> I have huge respect for those working hard & making sacrifice to better their own lives. Hell, this country was founded on these very principles.


It is easy to take for granted what we have. I believe we all do it daily. We can also have compassion for a man trying to feed his family. But he doesn't need to do it here, when he has his own country to work hard in. America is the land of opportunity, but it's not supposed to be the land of "feel sorry for everybody that sneaks in here". I agree that whatever surgeries he needed should have been paid by the company. That's their punishment for not digging deeper into their new hires. But now he needs to be deported. He is not our problem anymore. God knows we have enough legal citizens sucking on the govt tit, we don't need anymore illegals doing it too!


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

Texas Wax said:


> This dude is a human being first. He got hurt, on the job. He should never have been hired for legally. The WC was paid legally and there to aid the Human being in getting his ankle repaired. That is all right and correct, not even the dumbest idiots deserve to go through life with an injury like that, if there are means to 'help'. Wishing him harm-not so positive in my book, although understandable.
> 
> After that he's here illegally. He's been outed as being here illegally. By of all things, the legal profession (speak volumes of the inane nature of this aspect of the legal system) - DEPORT HIM


Yes, this is an interesting case. The most important thing is that he is a human.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

pinwheel said:


> I was addressing Leo's question, not the entire debate. I challenge all of you to ask yourself that question, what would you do for you & yours if you were born into a different set of circumstances beyond your control. It's easy to pass judgement from this side of the border. It's easy to take for granted all we have, while looking down our noses at those who were born to different circumstances.
> 
> I have huge respect for those working hard & making sacrifice to better their own lives. Hell, this country was founded on these very principles.


I wouldn't take on more than I could handle, like not having 3 kids if I can't support them... legally... 

To those of you who feel "he's just supporting his family"... do you advocate robbing banks to "feed a family"? How about stealing YOUR tools so he can pawn them to "feed a family"?


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I can tell you I know how hard it is to get a work visa here. My brother in law moved here from Scotland to marry my sister. They didn't follow the correct procedures when they did that and it was a huge pain in the ass for them. As well as it cost them a bunch of money. But he did it the right way and waited to get a work visa before getting a job. It took over a year. Then he took the first job he could, which was a real crappy low paying job. He worked hard and found a better job. Now he has had many raises and been offered a promotion. All done legally. It can be done. It's not easy, but it can without false documents.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

RobertCDF said:


> I wouldn't take on more than I could handle, like not having 3 kids if I can't support them... legally...
> 
> To those of you who feel "he's just supporting his family"... do you advocate robbing banks to "feed a family"? How about stealing YOUR tools so he can pawn them to "feed a family"?


Exactly. Illegal is illegal.

He shouldn't get a dime. He needs to get thrown out of here by the collar.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

RobertCDF said:


> I wouldn't take on more than I could handle, like not having 3 kids if I can't support them... legally...
> 
> To those of you who feel "he's just supporting his family"... do you advocate robbing banks to "feed a family"? How about stealing YOUR tools so he can pawn them to "feed a family"?


Going on the "legal" route is easier said than done. Like the bible, it's quite difficult to abide by all the rules. So, may he that is perfect, throw the first stone.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

What does the Bible say about enriching ones life at the expense and hardship of others.


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

so if someone offered you a settlement like that you wouldn't take it right. 

you'd say oh sorry sirs but my papers aren't exactly right so i'll go back to mexico and live at a level of mere subsistence. 

i doubt it...


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

pinwheel said:


> I choose the former.
> 
> I'm not pro illegal immigrant, but I blame our screwed up gov more than I do the man trying to better his life. Try imagining yourself being born to different circumstance & think of the lengths you would go to improve yours & your families lives. I know you would think of me as a criminal too.


So you choose to reward the criminals and persecute the law abiders.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I think we need a real leader to put these fema camps to work for the american citizen..

Ill bet they all go home after the first 60 mins expo.. :whistling


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

pinwheel said:


> I was addressing Leo's question, not the entire debate. I challenge all of you to ask yourself that question, what would you do for you & yours if you were born into a different set of circumstances beyond your control. It's easy to pass judgement from this side of the border. It's easy to take for granted all we have, while looking down our noses at those who were born to different circumstances.
> 
> I have huge respect for those working hard & making sacrifice to better their own lives. Hell, this country was founded on these very principles.


I would likely do what he did. But then when I got caught I would be considered a criminal and I would know that.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

flashheatingand said:


> If that is the point, more blame should be placed on the emloyer. As someone mentioned, the fact that the guy did not speak English, does raise a red flag.
> 
> Fact is the employer was aware of the immigration status, and false papers, but turned a blind eye. They have been known to throw the batos under the bus, and something should be done about that.


A that point it pretty much comes down to the law. If he has his (illegal) papers and they check out through the system then what are you gonna do. It makes him legal. And if you don't hire him based on you thinking he is illegal yet he has his papers then you are in violation of discrimination.


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

here is more stuff that's coming down the pipe:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...firm-to-pay-2-million-to-feds-for-3569643.php

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/AidAbetUnlawfulSec8USC1324.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304868004577378042369495780.html

it's all over the web. 


ok i take back the generalization.... I shouldn't be so Archie Bunkerish


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

CITY DECKS INC said:


> here is more stuff that's coming down the pipe:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/AidAbetUnlawfulSec8USC1324.html



Seems they have all kinds of rules for the existing citizens but says nothing about the illegal that broke the law.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

CITY DECKS INC said:


> ok i take back the generalization.... I shouldn't be so Archie Bunkerish


I do get your point:thumbsup:
The Chinese and Koreans over here learn to do very fine work







.............................................Meathead:laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Leo G said:


> but says nothing about the illegal that broke the law.


We can't be raciest now  can we:blink:


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

Leo G said:


> Seems they have all kinds of rules for the existing citizens but says nothing about the illegal that broke the law.


nothing for the law breakers just a fat fine to the employers. it seems that are targeting 10+ employee based companies. 


but this is cool: if link does not work google e-verify i have not checked it but i think it might be the only real time access portal in determining status. 

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> We can't be raciest now  can we:blink:


i guess a lil wouldn't hurt....:laughing:


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

There are many things consumers are passionate about and are willing to pay extra for. For example, certified humanely raised poultry, fair trade coffee, sustainably produced products and so on.

Many people here strongly advocate for American made products. Now its time to advocate only hiring GCs who do not permit illegals and prohibit subs from bringing illegal alien employee on the project. GCs can help by adding illegal alien prohibition clause when soliciting for subs. 

This is boiler plate language for a lot of government projects. Whats needed is appeasing to legal labor conscious population and popularize the inclusion of this into boilerplate language for residential and commercial projects.

"contractor attest that contractor shall not knowingly utilize the services of an illegal immigrant in the performance of this contract and shall not knowingly utilize the services of any subcontractor who will utilize the services of an illegal immigrant in the performance of this
contract"

Then, something like this shouldn't happen. 
http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-sue-a-contractor-for-having-an-illegal-alien-583052.html

popularizing E-verify among all new companies and gaining social acceptance could have a great impact on preventing further encroachment of illegal alien into work force. Once its common enough for smaller businesses, the contract can be tweaked to only hire subs who use e-verify.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

CITY DECKS INC said:


> I find that the mexicans I come across don't have the ability to multi trade or bounce around. They suck at any type of finish work even after doing with them a doz times. and I'm talking about basic window trim and base.
> They are good at general labor set up break down clean up, site and ground work and demo. But getting them to fussy finish work or any angles task that uses there head just does not work. Good for simple repetitive work . Give them something that requires the use of the brain and forget about it. That's my 2 cents.


Truth is fioish work is tough for many. At least the "batos" do a good job in regards to the labor. It's hard to find a "legal" who will give 100% in a job that isn't fun or interesting.


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## heeler007 (Dec 6, 2012)

*Brother-n-law looses 7yr. business do to illegal*

Not sure if its a fed. or certain states law. Apparently in Okla., my brother-n-law found out the hard way; upon a illegal shot self in eye with frame gun & turned into w/c. Not only did w/c drop him, fine him, fed. border patrol catches wind; an after days of investigation, paperwork, and even acquireing supposably legal SSC, visa, diver lic., only 2 of his 2 / 6 man crew was actually legal. Needless to say; after it was all said and done, and tens of thousands dollars fined per employee, state, fed., and w/c fees & fines. He files bankruptcy, sales off years of accumlated assets, including their property, home. Now; lives in old trailer house, farm hand, fighting to establish enough credit to provide 2 sons transportation, and funds for schooling & into college.
Mean while; within a few months 2 of his acquired visa permitted mexicans was able to get credit to purchase all his trucks, trailers, tools, equipment, plus some new equipment and my brother property and took over his long time client acct. W.T.F.


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

*e-verify*


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

draw and quatrer em all, in trafaglar sq


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

Leo G said:


> Seems they have all kinds of rules for the existing citizens but says nothing about the illegal that broke the law.


Laws and more laws. It would be nice to see less laws for once.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That all they know how to do. They think that we hired them to make more laws and if they don't we'd fire them. At this point I'm ready to fire each and every single one of them. Starting right at the very top


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

heeler007 said:


> Not sure if its a fed. or certain states law. Apparently in Okla., my brother-n-law found out the hard way; upon a illegal shot self in eye with frame gun & turned into w/c. Not only did w/c drop him, fine him, fed. border patrol catches wind; an after days of investigation, paperwork, and even acquireing supposably legal SSC, visa, diver lic., only 2 of his 2 / 6 man crew was actually legal. Needless to say; after it was all said and done, and tens of thousands dollars fined per employee, state, fed., and w/c fees & fines. He files bankruptcy, sales off years of accumlated assets, including their property, home. Now; lives in old trailer house, farm hand, fighting to establish enough credit to provide 2 sons transportation, and funds for schooling & into college.
> Mean while; within a few months 2 of his acquired visa permitted mexicans was able to get credit to purchase all his trucks, trailers, tools, equipment, plus some new equipment and my brother property and took over his long time client acct. W.T.F.


I don't get it, the employers provided "legal" documents and your brother-in-law still got ambushed? Something doesn't seem right. It's not our job to do a thorough investigation. If "Juan" gives a s.s. card with the other valid id's that are requested, your brother in-law followed the law. And, he should take this mess to court. Perhaps the drivers license or other id was expired? something doesn't make sense.

As for the credit thing, although it may be upsetting to you, nobody is entitled to a loan. Somebody chose to take on the risk, and it's none of our business. I remember talking with a car dealer, and the conversation had to deal with Mexicans. He stated that generally speaking, Mexicans are very good with paying off their loans. Far more reliable than the white folks. 

Wait, did you say that the visa immigrants bought his property, trucks and client list, after all this mess? This is starting to sound like quite the tall tale.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

DWB do you have another pic of Hallie?


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

:whistling:thumbup:


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

heeler007 said:


> Not sure if its a fed. or certain states law. Apparently in Okla., my brother-n-law found out the hard way; upon a illegal shot self in eye with frame gun & turned into w/c. Not only did w/c drop him, fine him, fed. border patrol catches wind; an after days of investigation, paperwork, and even acquireing supposably legal SSC, visa, diver lic., only 2 of his 2 / 6 man crew was actually legal. Needless to say; after it was all said and done, and tens of thousands dollars fined per employee, state, fed., and w/c fees & fines. He files bankruptcy, sales off years of accumlated assets, including their property, home. Now; lives in old trailer house, farm hand, fighting to establish enough credit to provide 2 sons transportation, and funds for schooling & into college.
> Mean while; within a few months 2 of his acquired visa permitted mexicans was able to get credit to purchase all his trucks, trailers, tools,
> equipment, plus some new equipment and my brother property and took over his long time client acct. W.T.F.


While I sympathize with the bil's troubles, a $10 pair of safety glasses could have prevented the whole mess.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

Which is exactly why you want to get mutiple liscences in multiple names, you can transfer assets, and keep on moving.

Good business is to have the assests of 1 company in the name of another. Around here it cost $65.00 to open new companies, it can be done through you accountant.

Whistling and smily's are not considered pics.:sad:


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

killerdecks said:


> Which is exactly why you want to get mutiple liscences in multiple names, you can transfer assets, and keep on moving.
> 
> Good business is to have the assests of 1 company in the name of another. Around here it cost $65.00 to open new companies, it can be done through you accountant.
> 
> Whistling and smily's are not considered pics.:sad:



Seems shady as hell and a way to weasel from accountability and borderline money laundering.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

In order to survive here more than a few days, you have to find work. That means someone (an "employer") paying the illegal (the "employee") wages.

All of this starts and stops with nothing more difficult than this:
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD



> U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.
> 
> E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.


Getting mad at "illegals" - when it is your neighbors and fellow business owners who fail the most basic responsibilities seems foolish to me.


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