# Panasonic EYC142B vs Makita LXT



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> here is a good read about one kind of brushless motor.
> 
> 
> http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/C12review.pdf


How is that a good read?

Please explain this:



> To circumvent the losses of the brushed motor, Festool incorporated a brushless DC motor2 into the new C12 drill. The electrical connections to the windings are permanent, and don't suffer from the inefficiencies of constantly connecting and disconnecting as the motor rotates.


and then!



> The heart of the C12 is the revolutionary EC-TEC brushless motor. This isn't just your run-of-the-mill motor. This is a permanent magnet, remotely commutated, 3-phase, AC motor. This is the same type of motor used as servo motors in robotic systems where high torque, high speed, and extreme durability are crucial.
> So just how unique is this motor? Well, if you mechanically turned the motor, it would generate a 3-phase, sinusoidal AC output; just like industrial diesel-electric generators do. (Do not attempt this.1)



^^ Hmmm 

Everything is going DC brush-less, even washing machines.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> A common misconception about variable speed tools is that the speed is controlled with a variable resistor, like the dimmer of a light switch. This doesn’t work well for motors for two reasons. First, is because energy is wasted pumping current through the resistor. The second reason is that whatever power that is not being used by the motor has to be dissipated by the resistor. This means that the battery would be providing full power at all times, regardless how slow the motor is turning. This would be like driving your car with the gas pedal pressed all the way to the floor, and trying to drive at the speed limit by constantly pressing the brake pedal.


Sounds like your electrical engineer doesn't even know how a dimmer works let alone a cordless drill. :laughing::laughing:


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I havnt seen a resistor used to control motor speed since my first ever tamiya clodbuster. Anyone remember there mechanical speed controls. Boy they were the thing to have back in the day. 









But anyway they did use AC induction motors on a few things here and there but like you say DC brushless is the way everything is moving from Electric vehicles to washing machines and rc cars. Both are very similar and sometimes the AC brushless are even referred to as DC brushless. But the tech for DC have way advanced over AC versions. Speeds controls are extremly advanced on DC brushless motors.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Both are very similar and sometimes the AC brushless are even referred to as DC brushless.


The reason people do that is because those DC motors used an electronic control module and the incoming current looked similar to AC, picture a graph with horizontal lines above and below the X-axis like this: _-_-_-_- (assuming they were the same length). Instead of a smooth sign wave like AC; although the current in a way "alternates" it is still DC.

Absolutely a common misconception. 

DC motors are used in washing machines now because of their near unlimited speed. Look at MAXUSA's 400PSI compressor, its only a matter of time until they all go this way.

I think the long and the short of it is the brushless motor is the future of cordless tools, no argument about it. I do not think that it is the be-all and end-all.

I'm not saying the C12 isn't the best drill out there, it probably is; but that "review" is nice and detailed, but its a joke that it is practically comparing the C12 to a brace and bit.

BC, as an aside I still get my friend riled up when I bring up the time I decided to take his Tamiya RC car for a spin, had the mechanical speed control stick and ran it down the stairs.:laughing:


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> The reason people do that is because those DC motors used an electronic control module and the incoming current looked similar to AC, picture a graph with horizontal lines above and below the X-axis like this: _-_-_-_- (assuming they were the same length). Instead of a smooth sign wave like AC; although the current in a way "alternates" it is still DC.
> 
> Absolutely a common misconception.
> 
> ...


 
I have had every rc i have ever owned go out of control. There's nothing worse as they move so dam fast you cant stop them until they hit something and break into 100 pieces.


----------



## Phillip Marsh (Oct 4, 2009)

Don't expect the best cordless drill for cabinets to also be able to take on a deck job. I use a compact 18v Bosch on cabinets and light duty driving but for decks I always grab the DeWalt DCD970 which at 650 inch pounds of torque outpowers our Makita LXT drills or any other for that matter. The compact types or the ones with the 1/2 sized battery packs save a pound or more of weight and fit in tight spaces more easily but quickly crap out on heavy load jobs like driving deck screws. 

I did a 2000 sq. ft. deck with Ipe and the drilling and screw driving was all done with a single DCD970 battery charge. I had tried a Makita BDF452 and it died after less than 10 minutes of use on the Ipe on an earlier job which is why I started researching what was available. The DeWalt had no problem even when I was cutting 4-3/8" holes in the Ipe for flush mount deck lights.

With lithium-ion batteries the drills have a harder time on high torque applications as the circuitry that protects the battery from overheating limits the true available power. You will not notice this on small drilling jobs like with a cabinet installation but you definitely will if you are cutting 4" dry vent holes or 6" tankless heater vents in siding. For the heavy duty jobs a high torque drill makes a big difference and even though it may weigh a pound more it is what I know to use and finish whatever job I start. 

Problem with asking for opinions is that in most cases you are getting feedback on a circa 2006 drill and a lot has changed in the past 3 years. I don't think Bosch or DeWalt or Milwaukee even produced a lithium-ion drill back then. Having been burned in the past with still serviceable drills that I could no longer find batteries for I long ago resolved never to buy a tool where I could not get a new battery just by going down to my local lumber yard or Home Depot. 

With our use of the new Blue Boar universal cutters and their hole saws for stucco and brick veneer we have learned that a 600 in. lb. 18 volt cordless drill can easily take the place of our 11 amp stud drill. Using a 450 in. lb. drill is only going to smoke the drill and waste a lot of time.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I never seen or heard a dewalt cell of 2.4ah out run a 3.0ah of any brand let alone the makita cells. Sounds like the Makita cell was not charged. You get quite a bit more run time and available TQ from the makita's because of the extra available amps. Dewalt started using that UWO bull crap figure so that they can no longer be compared to other brands. Reason being is they were dropping behind other company's with speed and TQ. Dewalt took far to long to redesign there tools are are in need of a new line. The XRP are dated drills now and just adding a li-ion cell to old drill don't make it better. They should have bought out li-ion tools back when everyone else did. Not 4 years later.


----------



## WestwoodHomes (Jan 18, 2010)

Just my opinion here I have the makita BTD144 impact driver with the brushless motor and it is really a nice gun. I was in the market for a second gun as I am a bit of a tool junkie and cant bring myself to use my C12's on decks and outdoor projects. Anyway I was in the local Hilti store recently looking for a laser and saw there combo kit and couldn't resist, especially with the warranties they offer. So far it has been the best combo kit I have had and I have tried them all. I have put both the drill and the driver through the paces the last few weeks and both have outperformed anything else I have had. I have used the drill to drill through everything from marble to a 5-1/2 treated microlam, that was just for fun with a 2-1/2" forstner bit just to see if it would, and it did with no problem. I have also installed about 300 1-1/2" x 2 1/2" lags in some outdoor stair stingers with the driver and it never flinched. 

I don't know how they will hold up over time but right now I am impressed

Here is the kit I got, a little pricey but I think well worth it.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> I don't know how they will hold up over time but right now I am impressed
> 
> Here is the kit I got, a little pricey but I think well worth it.


I have the same one, 1 year later one battery died under warranty. 2 years later gears wore out on the drill and it was not worth repairing so the replaced it, warranty covered it by a week. A month after that the impact driver wore out, broke the rotor and let the smoke out; it was also not worth repairing and I had to pay the repair cost limit of 155 bucks.

So after a little over 2 years that set has cost me about 800 dollars. I now have a new drill and a new impact with a 1 year old and a 2 year old battery. To say the least I'm not all that impressed for the premium I paid.

Please don't kid yourself on the warranties, Hilti offers the best service going but not the best warranties. I must admit, all 3 parts that died were replaced in 3 days...but I still had to drive there 3 times on 3 occasions. 

I use my impact and drill A LOT but it does not have the power of an 18V set. No ifs ands or buts about it; it performs well but it will not knock boots with the 18s. (although it is smaller and lighter I was only talking a power comparison)


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

The repair centers play a big part in the quality of the warranty. My makita dealer will change out broken stuff while you wait. I have never come across one dealer that would do that with any tool brand. I'm sure there are some more around like him but it's very rare. Never asks me for receipts and most of my tools i have taken to him i didn't even buy in the US. Ain't seen him for a few months though as my stuff has been doing really well.


----------



## JKBARR127 (Jan 13, 2010)

dont have experience w the panasonics but i will say i love my makita lxt's.


----------



## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

I have used both the panasonic and makita . 
The belt hook on the Panasonic is much better.
The box and bags are better . 
The makita is not junk either and the other tool are nice. 
I think the Panasonic is over priced but i have 7 sets .


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

wellbuilthome said:


> I have used both the panasonic and makita .
> The belt hook on the Panasonic is much better.
> The box and bags are better .
> The makita is not junk either and the other tool are nice.
> I think the Panasonic is over priced but i have 7 sets .


 
You like their belt hook? I thought they were possably one of the worst type of belt hook i ever tried. Thats something they really need to change. The Makitas versions are basic but they are strong and work very well. 

What makes the panny bags and boxes better? Never really paid any attention to them both. To be honest i aint even seen a panny tool since moving from the UK.


----------



## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

The pony hook holds on my hammer hoop real well , i can hang a framing hammer with the drill and impact and its fast to change from one to the other . 
The boxes are square and they have space for bits and accessories , best of all they fit in my weather guard EX large aluminum truck boxes and they are the same size as the Stanley plastic storage boxes . 
I buy most tools on amazon and get the drill impact flash lite set with a great bag all the tools fit and the inside . The bag is lite gray so i can see the dam tools .
I dropped the impact 60 feet onto a concrete walk and it exploded into 5 pieces I bought a new case from M&M tool and reassembled the tool and it worked fine , Nice fix .
I would buy the pony just for the belt hook alone. John


----------

