# Pex or Copper



## chrisintroy

I am finalizing plans for my new house and have talked to severyl local contractors. 2/3 of them recommend Pex and the remainder would use copper. I understand all of the advantages of Pex over copper. But I am conserned about the longevity of it. what are your opinions on my Pex vs Copper debate.


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## Teetorbilt

I have seen catastrophic failure of polyethelene when exposed to certain chemicals. The tube walls were so weak that they would crumble with the slightest finger pressure, cleaning solutions or something else stored under the sink was the suspected cause.
Copper has been around for ages and gets my vote.


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## Moscow

Teetorbilt said:


> I have seen catastrophic failure of polyethelene when exposed to certain chemicals. The tube walls were so weak that they would crumble with the slightest finger pressure, cleaning solutions or something else stored under the sink was the suspected cause.
> Copper has been around for ages and gets my vote.


I would go with pex, that is all you see here anymore. The pipe is very tough I am wondering if your thinking of the old gray poly tub that was mainly used for trailer houes, know that stuff is bad. The testing I have seen on pex tells me that the pipe is really tuff and hard to damage. What I make the contractors do here is test the piping with 100psi of air. But, copper has been around for ever and works good. Pex in my mind is just as good if not better.

Justin


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## plumguy

Pex just got approved in MA. I've heard of a lot of good things about it on other forums but, no local experiences. I'm a hard sell so I'm with copper all the way until.....


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## Teetorbilt

I'm familiar with Qest polybutylene right up to the class action lawsuit. It seemed like a good idea at the time, hope that the same does not apply to PEX. I would feel better if it was polyurethane instead of polyethylene but then it would be 3 times the price. The whole idea is to save time and money, what is best is #3 on most peoples list.


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## mdshunk

I do several rehabs of my own each year. All of them have been refitted with PEX for speed of installation mainly. These are either flips or rentals. I don't care how long it lasts, because I won't own them long enough to find out.


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## Rich Turley

mdshunk said:


> I don't care how long it lasts, because I won't own them long enough to find out.


Wow!


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## reveivl

Any renos or new construction I do now, I use pex. The stuff is bombproof, Ive done thousands of crimps and have not yet (touch wood) had a drip. You can run it through stud walls with no joints, cut it easily, add pieces and subtract pieces, it doesn't require drying or even draining to be connected. It's true it hasn't been around as long as copper, but at one time copper hadn't been around as long as iron.


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## Bjd

In the intrest of this question I use both systems daily, both have there good and bad points. However if you are looking for good looks and repairable in the future with parts obtained from your local hadware store, then go with copper.
If you are looking for speed and are not too concerened with looks, as pex is inpossable to keep neet then go with it. However if you do intend to do any repairs and or upgrades to this system, you may have a problem with getting parts and tools to make such repairs, as if you are not certified to install most supply houses will not sell to you.
Also even the simple expation tool used for the installation is about $300.00,
add that to your shopping cart as well.

BJD


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## Moscow

Bjd is correct on the cost of the tools, as for the looks need to take so me pride in the work, I have contractors that put copper in very sloppy. I hound then and hound them until they install the pex or copper in a professional way. I think and I have seen that you can make pex look as good if not better then copper. 
The more pex is being used the more your going to find replacement parts and tool rentail, we have to hardwar stores that supply and rent all the tools you will need to do the job.
One last thing pex is quiter, you get hot water faster to the fixture, and the pipe will be around for ever.
faster dosen't always mean slopper.
Justin


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## Mike Finley

mdshunk said:


> I don't care how long it lasts, because I won't own them long enough to find out.


Holy crap batman!


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## mdshunk

Mike Finley said:


> Holy crap batman!


Calm down guys.... it's a recognized piping system that is 100% code compliant. It's not like I'm having a place piped up with bendy straws from McDonald's. There's a time and place for craftsmanship, and there's a time and place for business. Rehabs to flip are business.


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## Teetorbilt

Straws are polypropylene. The charactristics are not much different than polyethelyenes.


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## mdshunk

Teetorbilt said:


> Straws are polypropylene. The charactristics are not much different than polyethelyenes.


True enough, but straws do not seem to have an ASTM standard number. :cheesygri Plus, they are not one of the eleven accepted water piping materials listed in IRC Table 2904.5.


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## Teetorbilt

md, I dealt in operational and prototype pneumatic and water hydraulic systems for 12 yrs. The failures were much more frequent from external sources. Absolute causes were never identified due to cost of evaluation. To save many projects, we went to polyurethane tubing.


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## Teetorbilt

md, I dealt in operational and prototype pneumatic and water hydraulic systems for 12 yrs. The failures were much more frequent from external sources. Absolute causes were never identified due to cost of evaluation. To save many projects, we went to polyurethane tubing.
I run copper to my icemaker.


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## reveivl

Bjd said:


> In the intrest of this question I use both systems daily, both have there good and bad points. However if you are looking for good looks and repairable in the future with parts obtained from your local hadware store, then go with copper.
> If you are looking for speed and are not too concerened with looks, as pex is inpossable to keep neet then go with it. However if you do intend to do any repairs and or upgrades to this system, you may have a problem with getting parts and tools to make such repairs, as if you are not certified to install most supply houses will not sell to you.
> Also even the simple expation tool used for the installation is about $300.00,
> add that to your shopping cart as well.
> 
> BJD


The crimping tool here costs about $240 and crimps both 1/2" and 3/4", the parts are available everywhere


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## CopperSmith

Copper!


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## wyoming 1

I'm glad we got that cleared up after 8 years with a one word answer


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## mbryan

wyoming 1 said:


> I'm glad we got that cleared up after 8 years with a one word answer


When the victory is that decisive a one word answer is all that it takes.


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## Squench

Looks pretty! It's a mechanical system not a beauty contest. I have seen copper leak due to faulty installation, but normally a bad copper joint will drip, but the pex failures I have seen have blown wide open. Split crimp ring and boom. I happen to think that on the hot side, condensation on the rings, coupled with the fact that plastics and polymers tend to expand and contract anywhere from six to nine times more than metals, is a reciepe for disaster. Just like quest pipe, it's not the _pipe_ it's the fittings. Being a plumber hooray for me job security, being a homeowner on the other hand...


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## jlsconstruction

Classic plumber


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## Tinstaafl

Squench said:


> Looks pretty! It's a mechanical system not a beauty contest.


If you can't see beauty in a well done mechanical system, you're not a "mechanic". :whistling


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## Squench

Yes there is a certain artistry in symmetry, but I tend to find my beauty elsewhere


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## dielectricunion

I'm having a lot of trouble deciding what plumbing system to install as well. I originally planned on copper; it looks a lot more professional and Ive always imagined it to be safer for drinking water. Its what I'm most comfortable running. I'm now considering pex because with some loose research, water quality in copper seems equally debatable. Having a hard time getting over how sloppy these plastic supply systems look. I need to abandon my anal retention and open my mind. I'm not a plumber by trade and this is for my own home. I'm a snob about copper without even having half the experience of a working plumber! I blame Chicago.


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## Oconomowoc

PEX ran in home runs is a great system and it looks great.

I'll design it for you if you want. Just write out the design on paper and snap a picture of it.


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## Driftweed

You know, if pex looks sloppy, it's the installers fault. Not the materials fault.

I actually use 90° fittings to eliminate bends, and staple like crazy (every other joist). As far as undersink goes, well if you cant bend rolled pex straight, you deserve ugly.


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## Oconomowoc

Like this


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## tyb525

Pex was designed to not need a lot of elbows. That's the point of it being flexible, to use less fittings and for better flow. Elbows, or any pex fitting, restrict the flow quite a bit.

It can be bent really well with a little heat.


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## dielectricunion

Where the lines terminate to fixture valves (ie 1/4 turn lav cold), is it common to use some sort of rigid stub out with valve? How about exposed stubs like toilet?


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## Oconomowoc

Like this....


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## tyb525

Around here pex is brought all the way out of the wall, don't really see those copper stubouts.


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## dielectricunion

You guys normally see cpvc glued or crimped for water supply? Was in my neighbor's basement and he has cpvc crimped to brass barb fittings or something similar.


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## MarkJames

Do rodents like to chew on pex? Just wondering, since we recently had one in the house that chewed through the dishwasher drain hose. (I had left a basement window (no screen) open for a couple weeks - oops)

My pex story is this: Client with a brand new house where a pex riser under a pedestal sink popped out of the stop valve. They were only in for a couple weeks when it happened. So they ripped out one floor's worth of hardwood, plus a fair amount of the drywall in the finished basement. Strange thing is the water was on for about 3 months before it happened. Sure, it seems to me like a compression connection that wasn't tightened sufficiently, but the plumber was experienced. I figured maybe the floppiness of the stop valve (even when clamped to the stud) also may have had something to do with it.


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## Oconomowoc

This came up at a plumbing convention once. Mice chewing through PEX was a very rare thing. 

On a new home I wouldn't worry about it at all.


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## tyb525

You can practically tow a truck with a properly crimped pex fitting, so it sounds like something else. And I've seen them leak before from a crooked crimp, but not literally blow off..


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## rex

Any monkey can run pex. Takes skill to make it look good.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

I one cut a pex ring of a fitting and it didnt leak or pop off. If I gripped both sides of the fitting and bent the pipe it would leak. With the ring on there it ain't gonna leak at all.


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## Oconomowoc

BCConstruction said:


> I one cut a pex ring of a fitting and it didnt leak or pop off. If I gripped both sides of the fitting and bent the pipe it would leak. With the ring on there it ain't gonna leak at all.


Quality PEX like Wirsbo brand has a memory. Cut the ring and the PEX will go back to original I.D......and leak like a mofo.

.....which, is why Wirsbo expansion system rocks. The O.D. of the Wirsbo fittings are larger than the original I.D. of PEX vs crimp fittings. The two fittings are different.

Most people use that red and blue stuff, not nearly as quality as Wirsbo or Uphonor.


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## The Coastal Craftsman

I ain't used much if any of the systems to be honest. I would use it in my own place but I do like copper. It just takes so long to install and ain't cheap. 

I will have to look into the other types of pex when I build our new house.


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## dielectricunion

Ive already bought a bunch of 10' copper but I'm tempted to try PEX... buy all new tools and fittings though. Already have plenty of solder, flux, copper. Will people here in central Indiana frown on copper when we go to sell this place? Its cpvc land out here. And I'm planning on running all EMT electrical. I know that's stupid, but aside from my time, its really not much more expensive. And I like it. Future electricians doing work on the house will think I was a jackass for it but whatever.


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## rex

I only use white pex, just looks better.


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## dielectricunion

May be an emerging market for designer PEX for those exposed applications... NFL team logo, candy cane striped, crystal clear (with algae inhibitor), sesame street for home runs passing through the kids playroom... think about the possibilities


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## dielectricunion

rex said:


> I only use white pex, just looks better.


Maybe the pipe I saw that was crimped was white PEX, but I swear it was printed CPVC


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## Driftweed

new tools for pex?

Get the $75 crimpers at home depot, you should already have the pipe scissors...


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## dielectricunion

Oh, not bad. Someone once made some comment to me about PEX and all these system specific tools you need to gear up with


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## tyb525

All pex has a memory, you can kink it all up, then heat it up to a certain point and it will go back to being round. Supposedly it will be just as strong, but I wouldn't risk it. Just goes to show how resilient it is. 

As far as looks go, as long as it doesn't look like a cat puked it up and it's not hanging down all over the place, who cares? Reasonably straight and organized, anything more is wasting time. Maybe a monkey could do it, but that doesn't make it a bad product. A monkey could run PVC/CPVC too.


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## EricBrancard

dielectricunion said:


> I'm having a lot of trouble deciding what plumbing system to install as well. I originally planned on copper; it looks a lot more professional and Ive always imagined it to be safer for drinking water. Its what I'm most comfortable running. I'm now considering pex because with some loose research, water quality in copper seems equally debatable. Having a hard time getting over how sloppy these plastic supply systems look. I need to abandon my anal retention and open my mind. I'm not a plumber by trade and this is for my own home. I'm a snob about copper without even having half the experience of a working plumber! I blame Chicago.


My plumber uses a combination of PEX and copper. Off the boiler or water tank is copper piping until it reaches the joists. Then the PEX is drilled through the joists, not clipped to the bottom. Once the bays are insulated, the PEX is not visible in the basement. 

Sinks are mostly stubbed out with copper. Anything that requires strength and straightness is done with copper. If done correctly, a PEX job can be just as clean as a copper job, cleaner considering the pipes are not clipped to the bottom of joists. 

PEX system used is Wirsbo. I actually have the tools for Veiga for doing my own odds and ends, but my plumber prefers the Wirsbo connections. I feel equally comfortable with either system.


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## dielectricunion

I suppose any system can be installed cleanly and professionally. I've seen lots of copper installs that look like a pile of sh"t, I'm just in shock since moving to Indiana, seeing the CPVC and Romex strewn about the basements. I think for some reason homeowners and hacks feel more comfortable working with plastic? They're not fooling anyone!


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## Driftweed

dielectricunion said:


> I suppose any system can be installed cleanly and professionally. I've seen lots of copper installs that look like a pile of sh"t, I'm just in shock since moving to Indiana, seeing the CPVC and Romex strewn about the basements. I think for some reason homeowners and hacks feel more comfortable working with plastic? They're not fooling anyone!


I hear ya on the cvpc thing. I'm down in e'ville and it retarded the amount of it down here. I did maintenance on rentals and would just wait till winter and let pex sell itself.


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## tyb525

Yeah, mostly every house we work on has plumbing and wiring run all over the place haphazardly. It must be an Indiana thing.


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## Daveylad

I would recommend copper! 

We have been using plastic pipe here for about 25/30yrs the more I see of it, the more I prefer copper. It's been around long enough for some problems to come to light.

One of the main problems I see is "suction leakage" on heating systems. This is a situation were it has been found that air can be drawn into the system through the walls of the plastic pipe, causing the pipe to coke up and the radiators to rust through in just a matter of a couple of years, due to oxygen content entering the system. A few years back manufacturers brought out a special "barrier pipe" which contains a extra layer in the pipe wall to prevent this from happening, but from what I see it's still a problem. I know a development all done with barrier pipe and every house has a problem with rads and boiler/furnace continually rusting through.

I have come to the conclusion that plastic is weird stuff that we don't fully understand, give me copper and brass any day.

Plastic disadvantages:-

Suction leakage
Degrades over time, going brittle
Cross threads easily 
Push on fittings - push off with frost
Splits / cracks with high pressure or water hammer
Degrades when in contact with sunlight


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## huggytree

there are all different brands and grades of Pex

I use Uponor Pro Pex which is A grade pex ....most use B grade pex

there are only TWO makers of A grade pex....Uponor(wirsbo) and Rehau

I use 100% Uponor fittings and stubouts...which gives the customer a 25 year warranty.....if the plumber is cheap they will mix and match some Sioux chief fittings to save $$....this screws your warranty

I haven't don't a new house in copper in 4 years....I haven't even seen one.....copper is pretty much dead...I wouldn't even want to do it anymore....pex is so much nicer/easier

Pex is quieter and less expensive

make sure you know all the details on the pex...brand name/grade/fittings.....if they are using my system id choose Pex over Copper any day


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## huggytree

whatever you do don't use CPVC...its junk....after 6 months it gets brittle...it no longer cuts...it shatters


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## Oconomowoc

huggytree said:


> whatever you do don't use CPVC...its junk....after 6 months it gets brittle...it no longer cuts...it shatters


Only the cheap stuff. Flow guard gold has been around a LONG time and it's just fine. I cut in to it weekly and after 15+ years shows zero signs of being brittle.


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## steex

I redid my house in CPVC about eight years ago. It's 95% Flowguard Gold except for one or two sticks where the store ran out and I had to substitute something cheaper. It works great and was easy to work with and I've had no problems with it. 

I replaced the old copper because it was so packed full of iron that it could barely flow. The plumbing was probably as old as the house, which was built in the late 30s, and we have nasty well water. When you looked through a section of 1/2" pipe you would see a cross section that you couldn't even get a pencil through. Plus the CPVC was cheap enough that I redesigned the system with all home runs to a manifold that I made up out of 1" and 3/4". My pressure vastly improved and I get hot water much quicker to most of my fixtures now.

The best thing about it was that the scrap copper more than paid for the new materials. People gave me some crap about it being hackish or that it won't last, but it's lasted so far and if anything happens I can repair or replace it easily. If I was doing it today I would use PEX for all the same reasons that I chose CPVC, but I have no complaints about it.


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## dielectricunion

Insulate hot water lines in CPVC and PEX same as copper?


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## Oconomowoc

dielectricunion said:


> Insulate hot water lines in CPVC and PEX same as copper?


No.


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## Oconomowoc

Personally, I don't think copper is that great. 

Personally, and this is my opinion after experiencing 1,000's of service calls I would select PEX as the best. Homeruns.


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## Golden view

dielectricunion said:


> Insulate hot water lines in CPVC and PEX same as copper?


They require it in AK. Ground water at 35 degrees, plastic can condense and drip inside walls.


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## EricBrancard

Oconomowoc said:


> Saw this today on a water heater swap.


Wow. That is atrocious.


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## Gary H

EricBrancard said:


> Wow. That is atrocious.


I think that could pass in a tight crawel space but never in a basement.


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## builditguy

I'm not a plumber. I do hire plumbers on a weekly basis and have significant input on plumbing decisions. 
For me, I always go with the plumber's recommendations. Seems like pex has been the recommendation for any new runs. Tying into existing plumbing always seems to go to copper.
As a builder I prefer pex. I also prefer a single run to each faucet. I realize a single run is not the most cost effective, but that's what I like.
With copper there is a joint at every turn and at least every 10'. With pex there is a joint at the manifold and a joint at the faucet. 
Let's say you have 10 soldered joints between the beginning and the end of the run. That's 10 chances of a leak. It is extremely rare to see a leak, but it can happen. Usually the ones I see are when a plumber forgets to solder a joint. 
With pex, that would be 10 less chances.
How long it will last is unknown to me. We would like to think it will last forever. Who really knows until the time comes when we realize it doesn't. I do know soldered joints on copper won't last forever. I've seen them corrode and fail in houses 40 - 50 years old. Probably the water reacting with the solder.

As far as cost, I don't know what copper is per ft. I think I have seen it for about $9 per 10'. Not sure. I did see pex (Menards version) on sale for .23 per ft.
The crimping tool was about $85 for one with jaws for 1/2" to 1" pex. Also at Menards.


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## Oconomowoc

So today I'm actually tearing out PEX and installing copper. It's FUBAR. I'll post photos when I arrive.


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## dielectricunion

Oconomowoc said:


> So today I'm actually tearing out PEX and installing copper. It's FUBAR. I'll post photos when I arrive.


Yeah I'd like to see some pix of PEX gone wrong. Always being in cities where copper was code, I still haven't seen any PEX systems.


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## tyb525

Haven't heard of pex not being allowed. The plastic pipe itself will last a few years short of forever as long as it isn't in the sunlight. Nothing in the water can touch it, but it's the brass fittings that can corrode like copper. Even then, it would be easy to replace a fitting, because there is almost always some slack to work with.


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## Oconomowoc




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## Oconomowoc

Built 2002. Uponor components. Every valve frozen solid. Adapters leaking.

Mission. Replace with copper and make it normal.


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## tyb525

Wonder if they get anything from the uponor lawsuit


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## Oconomowoc

Here's how I fixed it.

Cut it out and start fresh. It had no trim so that's where I started.

ALWAYS drill 1-3/8" holes. These were small so knock ins didn't work.

Use suspension clamps.

Trim ears off so it fits under chrome trim.

Mount with 1/2" screws so as not to pierce PEX.

Roll edges of trim with screwdriver shaft so it doesn't cut PEX.

Regroup. Come up with a plan.










Dishwasher


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## Oconomowoc




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## dielectricunion

Nice. So that is a hammer arrester? I assume i should stub out all my valves with air chamber above if i dont use hammer arresters? Ive heard guys claim that air chambers are a waste of time (talking copper supply lines specifically) but i always use them. Since Ive never run pex i wasnt sure if that will be necessary.


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## tjbnwi

Air hammers are not required in Indiana. 

Tom


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## Oconomowoc

Shock arrestors on PEX? Do the math. Lol


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## Daveylad

Another cause for concern for me with plastic pipe is the growth of bacteria in areas were water can stagnate such as dead legs or plastic piped fire sprinkler systems. I am sure there must be a risk of legionella from such situations when the water is eventually released, but good old copper has natural antibacterial qualities. 

The way I see it plastic of what ever type is derived from oil which in turn comes from dead sea creatures and is therefore an organic compound which naturally wants to decompose.

Were as copper is an element dug from the ground non organic which is happy to sit there doing its job for many years. Granted certain things attack it like acid water but that can attack plastic also.


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## Golden view

Oconomowoc said:


> Shock arrestors on PEX? Do the math. Lol


They do that here in Tacoma. Dumb.


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## tyb525

Daveylad said:


> Another cause for concern for me with plastic pipe is the growth of bacteria in areas were water can stagnate such as dead legs or plastic piped fire sprinkler systems. I am sure there must be a risk of legionella from such situations when the water is eventually released, but good old copper has natural antibacterial qualities.
> 
> The way I see it plastic of what ever type is derived from oil which in turn comes from dead sea creatures and is therefore an organic compound which naturally wants to decompose.
> 
> Were as copper is an element dug from the ground non organic which is happy to sit there doing its job for many years. Granted certain things attack it like acid water but that can attack plastic also.


Pex has been used in hydronic radiant heat systems since the 60's.

The brass fittings in a pex system are antimicrobial, if that means anything. Brass contains copper and so is also antimicrobial. In an old copper system, the pipe walls most likely have a layer of minerals and organic deposits on them. This prevents the water from directly contacting the copper, so the antimicrobial properties don't really have any affect.

Plastic really doesn't decompose. Look at landfills. Copper corrodes, I have seen that many a time.

What I don't understand is the lack of complaining about PVC DWV. Why not cast iron for that, or copper, if plastic is so bad?


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## Oconomowoc

tyb525 said:


> Pex has been used in hydronic radiant heat systems since the 60's.
> 
> The brass fittings in a pex system are antimicrobial, if that means anything. Brass contains copper and so is also antimicrobial. In an old copper system, the pipe walls most likely have a layer of minerals and organic deposits on them. This prevents the water from directly contacting the copper, so the antimicrobial properties don't really have any affect.
> 
> Plastic really doesn't decompose. Look at landfills. Copper corrodes, I have seen that many a time.
> 
> What I don't understand is the lack of complaining about PVC DWV. Why not cast iron for that, or copper, if plastic is so bad?


Why? I'll show you why.....


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## tyb525

I have seen pipes just like that, in copper and cast too. Galvanized is almost guaranteed to be clogged and leaking by the time we get to it.


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## tyb525

Here is why plastic doesn't break down from organic compounds, for those who feel like reading.

http://m.livescience.com/33085-petroleum-derived-plastic-non-biodegradable.html


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## Oconomowoc

Yeah, it's funny. Everybody complains how plastic takes 2 trillion years to decompose but some cities/ states claim cast is better. 

Truth is, it's union driven. They really don't care about quality or cost. Biggest illusion ever.


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## steex

You know who I really feel bad for is old timey plumber's helpers. They were the ones who had to carry all that cast drain pipe around.


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## KillerToiletSpider

Oconomowoc said:


> Yeah, it's funny. Everybody complains how plastic takes 2 trillion years to decompose but some cities/ states claim cast is better.
> 
> Truth is, it's union driven. They really don't care about quality or cost. Biggest illusion ever.



Cast iron doesn't burn, nor do you have expansion/contraction issues with cast iron that you do with PVC on buildings over ten stories.

But I have always preferred doing jobs that require caissons drilled a thousand feet deep and tower cranes a thousand feet tall.


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## Oconomowoc

KillerToiletSpider said:


> Cast iron doesn't burn, nor do you have expansion/contraction issues with cast iron that you do with PVC on buildings over ten stories.
> 
> But I have always preferred doing jobs that require caissons drilled a thousand feet deep and tower cranes a thousand feet tall.


If we are worried about the plumbing burning I'd say we have bigger issues.

99.99999% of the country uses plastic. Unavoidable fact.


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## KillerToiletSpider

Oconomowoc said:


> If we are worried about the plumbing burning I'd say we have bigger issues.
> 
> 99.99999% of the country uses plastic. Unavoidable fact.


Burn an entire city to the ground one time, and they go nuts with the code. All the electric here has to be in pipe as well.


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## dielectricunion

Daveylad said:


> Another cause for concern for me with plastic pipe is the growth of bacteria in areas were water can stagnate such as dead legs or plastic piped fire sprinkler systems. I am sure there must be a risk of legionella from such situations when the water is eventually released, but good old copper has natural antibacterial qualities.
> 
> The way I see it plastic of what ever type is derived from oil which in turn comes from dead sea creatures and is therefore an organic compound which naturally wants to decompose.
> 
> Were as copper is an element dug from the ground non organic which is happy to sit there doing its job for many years. Granted certain things attack it like acid water but that can attack plastic also.


I give you a C for creativity!


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## tyb525

Almost nothing in the water can hurt pex, and if something in the water is bad enough to damage it, you'd have some major health problems to deal with.


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## Daveylad

dielectricunion said:


> I give you a C for creativity!


You were being kind to me. 

Should have been C for Crock of S**t


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## Daveylad

I may have missed the mark with my 'organic breakdown' theory, but plastic sure does degenerate for some reason or other, it may not decompose away to nothing in a landfill, but it only has to loose some of it's properties to go weak and make it unsuitable for the job it was designed to do, like carry water under pressure.

Have a read at this and see what you think.

http://www.hdpeoxidation.com


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## EricKay84

*PEX for long life*

No brainer - PEX is best over copper for long life.
Wont corrode from mineralized or acidic water, or water with bad PH.
Wont corrode from stray electrolysis.
Takes freezing in a stride!:clap:


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## ASMCHICO

*Pex and Rats*

My crew has been installing a mix of copper & pex for about 6 years. My preference is copper, but pex is the norm in our market. Here is the first Pex failure that I have seen myself. Everyone agrees that the problem is the Rats, not the Pex. But why risk it? Going forward, we will continue to use Pex, but will probably use copper in obvious rodent susceptible areas.


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