# Job was easier than expected. Customer asking for a reduction in price?



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Maybe regional, I dont know. The realtors here are DBs for the most part. Lazy, incompetent and disrespectful. The ones I have encountered want a patch job for low prices and say your "prices are ridiculous" or you are looking down your nose when you dont want to put a band aid on a machine gun wound. I dont do patches, if I do a repair I do it right.
> 
> They also generally want a free estimate for fixing up a house that is about to sell or be purchased. Like i have said before, I will look at a job and give an honest ball park for free. To generate a scope of work, a bid ect.. they sign a PSA and pay me. Why realtors think that doesnt apply to them I dont know :no: I actually only do PSAs for larger projects or one that takes some time to bid and write a scope. A roof replacement, siding, windows, ect... no. Remodel, yes. But if i was to bid a roof for a realtor I would do what TNT said. Pay me, sucka.
> 
> Like I said, its probably regional. Too many realtors here.


I realize I generalized there, im sure there are some good realtors here.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I realize I generalized there, im sure there are some good realtors here.


There are a few gems...


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

If mine sells my house for what she thinks she can, she will be one of them...


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> He did replace plywood.
> 
> 
> 
> But that was my point. Sell the project and not the material. Never say replace 12 sheets of plywood. Say repair subfloor replacing bad plywood as needed.



We're making the same point. :thumbsup:


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> If mine sells my house for what she thinks she can, she will be one of them...[/QUOTE
> 
> Same here.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

to the O. P.--- as pointed out by others---- you can avoid this problem in the future by adjusting how you write your proposals.

for example---- when we were doing asphalt shingle re-roofs- one of the lines on the proposal would read " replace up to 10% of the roof decking. "

which means anywhere from 0-10%. If we replace nothing--- there is no change in price. If we replace 10% there is no change in price. As a practical matter we NEVER charged extra even if we went over 10% ( rare)

another example.- one of the jobs we did this week involved replacing 52 obsolete concrete roof tiles. these tiles haven't been made( as far as I know) since the 1930's. I tracked down a stash of them from a salvaged project 3 states away---- had them crated up and shipped to me. My original proposal read( among other things)

" replace approx. 45........" I actually bought 80 tiles and transported them to the job site----we used 52---and several others were damaged in transit.

Internally --- I figured we would be working on-site anywhere from a full day to 2 full days to do the job. In fact--- the job went like a dream and we were on site only 6 hours. the price was STILL EXACTLY what I originally proposed and the customer paid on the spot.----we aren't charging the customer by the hour.

3rd example--- another job this week. simple job---- I internally figured a certain amount for materials and a certain amount for labor and gave a lump sum price. We ran into some un-forseen conditions---which I SHOULD have forseen---and used 150% of my budgeted labor--- too bad for me--- my price is EXACTLY as originally quoted---- although I could very easily have up-charged.

it is VERY rare for me to encounter "un-forseen" conditions----after all, that's what the customer is paying me for---- to "for-see" the un-expected and know how to handle it. In the future I will better account for this- this particular customer would have been delighted to pay additional $$$$$. I chose not to charge it.

stephen


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## gastek (Mar 29, 2011)

Take this job as a lesson learned, adjust the bill accordingly but going forward you need to change how you bid jobs as well as any contracts you use. It protects you and the HO. It sucks that you have to take less $$ but you did do less work. 

Lesson learned.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Like others have said don't put something like replace entire top layer and bottom layer of plywood.. put "replace subfloor where needed"

Sometimes for example on a rot repair job I'll put "remove and replace up to 36 sq ft of sheathing"

Sometimes it's one sq foot, sometimes it's the full 36.. I still charge the same. And customers can't say anything because I worded it to my favor.

One thing I stand behind is honesty. In my area and trade there's not much of it and people hate remodeling and contractors because of it.. thinking there total rip offs.

So if you have an opportunity to maybe refund a bit of money, even if it's not the full amount, do so. It will show honesty and u can almost gurantee they will call you with more future work.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

That top layer is usually a piece of cake. I would charge twice as much for that bottom layer considering I would need to cut around partitions and deal possible glue. So a job like this is a bonus. You can give a real discount & earn respect while hitting a good margin.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Construction is also a proffesion not outsourced over seas. The way to restore the trades are to put the public back to work and let the pool of workers shrink so stand outs can excel.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

But it is outsourced through over the border :laughing:


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

*Be Honest*

I believe "honesty is the best policy." But you have to live with yourself, not me. And when you have a reputation of being honest, whether you adjust your bill up or down, the H.O. will understand and still be happy. 

It's happened to me where I under-priced the material on a complicated design. When I approached the H.O. about it, they didn't hesitate to write me another cheque to keep the job going. Now they want me back in the spring to do more work and have given me many referrals.

Give the H.O. back the money they want. You can always recoup it on another project or two and like many have said, reword your estimates and contracts to keep things in your favour. You're not ripping anybody off. You're just preventing headaches down the road.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I would never go back to a customer and ask for money for anything but an actual unforeseen circumstance. If I under priced something on a complicated job it's all on me. That's how contractors get a bad rap.


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## Elyrain (Dec 17, 2007)

I think it comes down to if you think they will refer another job or client to you. if so it should be well worth $500. If not keep the cash and don't expect them to talk you up or refer anyone.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

It's proof that we are all trying to just earn a legitimate living with a little profit along the way so that's why so many would want to readjust the numbers. It's the scars of being beaten down all the time that some don't want to give it back when it goes our way. 

Just today I am being haggled with over many big sheathing extras, 16 sheets worth, flashing issues and other stuff. All well covered in the contract, discussed and told do whatever needs to be done . Even after highlighting it an asking him if understands the cost. He is trying to get me to deduct 700.00 mind you he tried to add other work but I refused at this time since there was already extra. 

Of course it's becoming a problem. I said would you have felt better if I cut corners or shoe makered it because I didn't think you would have paid me correcttly? It doesn't matter. As far as he is concerned I was paid a premium in comparison to what else he could have done.


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## Piers40 (Nov 4, 2009)

*Job Easier Than Expected*

I seem to specialise in the opposite: looks simple and find a quagmire!

That's where the "good will" aspect pops up. If I'd quoted $800 and it looked more like a $500 job - then why not discuss it with the client and come to an arrangement. Time and materials will be lower.

Presumably you got the job because you were either cheaper or had a good reputation. I've had a couple of jobs like this where the client was reluctant to the the insurance company to task!

I'd always go for the Good Will tick where possible but a good dialogue with the client never hurts.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

It is very simple...job description determines the outcome of this. "Repair and replace subfloor as needed" for a fixed contract price then there is no refund. "Tear out and replace plywood and particle board" a credit is due if you didn't replace any plywood. 

We used to do very detailed line item estimates and billing. It ends up being a pain trying to explain all those details to a client. 

We mostly do very detailed s.o.w. with budgets clearly listed and lump sum totals. Things are much simpler now.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

Ethically: refund. 
Legally: depends on contract. 
It is admirable to eat extra costs. To me, if you don't charge for replacing joists on one job then charge for not replacing the subfloor on another, it's not "right". "Steal from Peter to pay Paul."

I usually price Repair or prep work by the hour. I estimate the hours and if it takes more or less time then the price is adjusted. My motto is to be fair to each individual customer; to charge appropriately for my time.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

William James said:


> Ethically: refund.
> Legally: depends on contract.
> It is admirable to eat extra costs. To me, if you don't charge for replacing joists on one job then charge for not replacing the subfloor on another, it's not "right". "Steal from Peter to pay Paul."
> 
> I usually price Repair or prep work by the hour. I estimate the hours and if it takes more or less time then the price is adjusted. My motto is to be fair to each individual customer; to charge appropriately for my time.


Ethically? Are you kidding? It's called win some lose some. Why do contractors feel guilty winning one?


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Option #1 complete the scope of work

Option #2 discount the contract based on a lesser scope of work, but get a signoff on this to include the agreed upon discount and a release that you are not responsible for the performance of the plywood not replaced.

You, as a professional, have informed them that the remaining plywood is in good condition, now you own it and any mold that may be on it. Let them accept the risk of leaving it, but also the reward for not replacing it. 

You did tell them initially that all the plywood needs to be replaced, and they believed you, if that is not true, you can not justify charging them for that portion.


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