# Wetbeds?



## Nick1001 (Nov 4, 2012)

I was wondering what mix everyone was using for their shower floor wetbeds? I've been using a 3:1 mix of sand and portland cement. This is the way I was taught but it wasn't from anyone that was a true tile installer. I'm doing my first one for my own company and want to make sure it's the best mix and that I shouldn't be adding anything else. Thanks in advance.


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## be the builder (Dec 13, 2009)

I don't think many do thick beds these days with all the new pre-sloped and waterproofed products out there. Schluter and noble seal to name a few. But when I do make my own I was doing 4 to 1 extra dry. If I had to make my own now I would just buy the pre bagged version sand mix they usually sell at Home Depot.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Wet beds ?

Isn't that what babies do


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Quickrete Sand/Topping Mix....pre-mixed, readily available, inexpensive. Proper curing is strongly recommended. 

I haven't found that any of the pre-sloped pans work exactly as I want with my showers. i never seem to be building within their standard dimension tolerances.

I think a lot of guys here use stuff like Mapei 4to1 Mud Bed Mix.
I have wondered why....being that it costs like $15/bag as opposed to around $5 for Quickrete.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Sand topping mix is 3/1, I think so an extra shovel of sand makes it a little more porous. Don't forget your pre-slope under the membrane.


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## Nick1001 (Nov 4, 2012)

Floormasta78 said:


> Wet beds ?
> 
> Isn't that what babies do


What do you call them? That's all I've heard of around here.


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## be the builder (Dec 13, 2009)

We just call them mud beds or pans when using pre fab


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## ee3 (Feb 10, 2006)

ANSI STANDARDS/TCNA Guidlines--1 to 4


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Yep 4:1 if the sand is dry and 5:1 if it's soaking wet :whistling


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## Ceramictec (Feb 14, 2008)

Nick1001 said:


> I was wondering what mix everyone was using for their shower floor wetbeds?


Laticrete "Floor Mud 209"

on occasion the Sakrete sand mix.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

As ee3 noted the spec is 4:1 for showers and 5:1 floor normal floors. But I've seen guys mix floor mud very lean to make it easier to work with. 7:1 is not a good plan.



superseal said:


> Yep 4:1 if the sand is dry and 5:1 if it's soaking wet


Huh, that doesn't sound right to me. A shovel of damp sand is much more than a shovel of dry sand. The spec always says to use damp sand. So if the spec says 5:1 it means damp sand, if it's dry your mix is too rich.

Jaz


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

I use portland and clean sand anywhere between 4:1 to 5:1.
Quick tip: start with less water and add as needed, check the mix by grabbing a handful in your palm,should not break or leave any residue in your palm when squeezed. If it stays like an egg and no cement on your palm, it is ready to go.:clap:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

JazMan said:


> As ee3 noted the spec is 4:1 for showers and 5:1 floor normal floors. But I've seen guys mix floor mud very lean to make it easier to work with. 7:1 is not a good plan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Much more what??? Sand or weight?

always more sand per volume dry then wet - Just stick a damp bucket of sand in the garage for a couple months and you'll see the volume difference.

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae196.cfm


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## Nick1001 (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks guys. Hopefully I'll be posting some pics in the next couple weeks. My plumbers killing me on his price so I'm waiting on two more estimates.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

Superseal,

Weight has nothing to do with the directions of how to gauge sand. Sand and cement are always measure by volume not weight.

A shovel of damp sand contains more sand than a shovel of dry sand, sometimes by 2x.

Your reference to the amount of sand in a bucket is not relevant as the amount of sand has not changed since it was placed in the bucket.

*Percentage of moisture in the sand: Moist sand will pile higher on the shovel because it clings together more than dry sand. Again, dry sand will not fill a shovel as high as moist aggregate.

* I already knew that but quote taken from; http://www.stuccoguru.com/resources/article.cfm?articleID=B-05250&resourceID=1

Jaz


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

JazMan said:


> Superseal,
> 
> Weight has nothing to do with the directions of how to gauge sand. Sand and cement are always measure by volume not weight.
> 
> ...


I think you mean the amount of sand is more compacted when it gets wet, it is true; fill a bucket with dry sand to the top and add water, the sand will get sink into bottom, creating more space on top to add more sand. water helps the sand get compacted more than the air.
superseal:A bucket of wet sand left a couple of months left undistrurbed won't show any difference on volume if the sand was compacted (pressed) before, the moisture will evaporate and the sand will stay just "well compacted".
with shovel we just make the dry sand fluffy.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Nick1001 said:


> What do you call them? That's all I've heard of around here.


Carpenter  [I hope that's allowed to say here...]

I think wet beds are the same thing as poured pans...what people call pans that aren't tile and stone tradespeople. Some folks wet set mud beds as in some cases, it's a great thing to do.

I use to use quikrete's bagged stuff with the play sand bagged stuff, but found the consistency not there. The prebagged mixes are overpriced for anyone skilled in mudwork and not into foam/plastic. You can get premixed mud, but places will want you to purchase in 4K pallet plus quantities, so they mix it to your spec's. 

If you don't know the spec, just buy whatever you can already bagged from wherever and use that. It'll work for ya.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

superseal said:


> Much more what??? Sand or weight?


all rocket science aside what does a cubic foot of sand weigh?  (100lbs if anyone cares).

This isn't rocket science. Take some cement and mix it up with some sand, say one shovel of cement to 3 shovels of sand. I've had pallets of cement inside with dump trucks of sand dumped outside on the ground. Mix it and go. If it's winter, bring it in and thaw it, then mix it and go. If you need to adjust it, then do it and go--I mean how much mud can you mix at one time?

It also depends upon what type of sand it is/where it came from, and how it was manufactured. Sand isn't sand and if it is, the job is either small or you're good enough to make it work--though there may be quite the b*tching surcharge.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> I think a lot of guys here use stuff like Mapei 4to1 Mud Bed Mix. I have wondered why....being that it costs like $15/bag as opposed to around $5 for Quickrete.


There must be something to the prebagged stuff--I think with some, it's ease of not having to mix, with others, I dunno. Laticrete I think has kevlar strands in it. Going to buy a handful of custom's bedding mortar and try it for a small room I have to do. That's $15/bag, so it must be something more than sand and cement. In custom's book, it says to start out w/3 gals of water and mix to a smooth, paste consistency (can use a drill w/mixing paddle). Ouch...maybe I won't.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

It is true that there is something more in the bags than just sand and portland. There is a lot of diesel fuel in there that you are paying for, and dry storage.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

:laughing: And other people's salaries.
The lightweight has me curious and can't find anything on max bed thickness.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Couldn't find that mortar at HD today, so got a bunch of quikrete's topping mix and play sand. Yup, there were pretty large, angular rocks falling out from the bag as I loaded them into my truck. Going to pour a bag through a sieve and find out exactly what's in it, aggregate wise.
Could be the infamous (by me) fence post concrete tile mix. Judging by the looks of the little I saw, each bag comes with jagged pea sized gravel so you can use them around your weep holes. Pretty smart on their part :thumbup:


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