# Student Painters?



## BC_Painter

cpp said:


> I'm with College Pro Painters and I have owned a Franchise for the last four years. I have had to deal with lead paint in the area's I have painted. I have always followed the OSHA standards for protecting homeowners and painters. With the new regulations that have come up College Pro made it a priority to get third party training and the EPA certifications for the franchise owners who had any houses in their area built 1978 or before.
> 
> PS-I went through the training in Feb and got my actual EPA cert in June



It's good to see the occasional student owner that takes initiative like that.

Like I said some of the owners are great, and I lucked out that I worked for a 5 year returning manager that did fairly well.

What are you going to do post CP? Wait out the non-competition agreement and then start something up yourself?


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## cpp

BC_Painter said:


> It's good to see the occasional student owner that takes initiative like that.
> 
> Like I said some of the owners are great, and I lucked out that I worked for a 5 year returning manager that did fairly well.
> 
> What are you going to do post CP? Wait out the non-competition agreement and then start something up yourself?


Thanks BC painter...I have continued to work with College Pro during my college years because of the skills I have been able to develop running a painting business. Everything from painting a house, to running financials, paying employees, customer service, marketing, sales...the list goes on and on. 

I like painting but I don't love it enough to do it for the rest of my life. If I did want to do it after College Pro I would look in the sister company Certa Pro Painters. 

For the future I actually want to own multiple businesses. I have different passions in different fields and I love working for myself. I have a couple other businesses I'm looking at starting but for right now College Pro is still challenging enough I have major personal growth every year. :thumbup:


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## cpp

Gough said:


> Interesting. The local College Pro outfit repainted the oldest house in my neighborhood earlier this summer, built in the '20. They clearly took NO precautions for LPB (RRP or OSHA), fall protection, or anything else. It was entertaining to drive by. They had a large crew on site, and it was like one of those pictures: "How many things can you see that are wrong with this picture?"


Gough-

I'm not sure of that specific situation or who that franchise owner may be but there are a few things I would like to ask. 

First: Were you able to actually go test the house for lead paint yourself?

Second: Are you sure it was College Pro Painters?

If you went through the EPA training then you have the ability to test for the potential presence of lead with the quick swab kits. If it was College Pro the franchise owner may have tested it and come back negative. Me personally if I had a house that old I would get a lead inspection service to come out and make sure. Maybe the siding was replaced since '78 or even before but never had lead paint?

As for my other question there are about 4-5 other painting companies around who use a college focus. College works, university painters, student painters, student works, etc... College Pro is the largest of all of them but we also sometimes take the flak from the poor work done by these other groups. 

Lastly, say it was College Pro and there was lead paint on the house, that specific franchise owner may have purely neglected to follow the rules. The company has training sessions that are required to attend before operating your business. He or she had the tools and knowledge to properly prep and paint a lead house. I hope this is not the case and knowing how seriously everyone takes safety I believe the other situations are more likely.


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## BC_Painter

cpp said:


> Thanks BC painter...I have continued to work with College Pro during my college years because of the skills I have been able to develop running a painting business. Everything from painting a house, to running financials, paying employees, customer service, marketing, sales...the list goes on and on.
> 
> I like painting but I don't love it enough to do it for the rest of my life. If I did want to do it after College Pro I would look in the sister company Certa Pro Painters.
> 
> For the future I actually want to own multiple businesses. I have different passions in different fields and I love working for myself. I have a couple other businesses I'm looking at starting but for right now College Pro is still challenging enough I have major personal growth every year. :thumbup:


One thing that I have learned over time that I will pass on to you.

My old employer also was thinking of getting out of the business once they were done with College Pro. He ended up buying a CertaPro franchise and he is doing fairly well for himself. There are certain issues however. They take a lot less of your money overall, but the minimums for royalties are MUCH higher, after the first year, it's around 40 thousand per year, and then climb for growth.

I've seen many CP outfits do well, but even more fail. The CertaPro "name" isn't necessarily worth all the money. I would ighly recommend you start a business yourself once the noncompetition agreement ends, and keep all the profits for yourself, with no contractual ties, and the ability to shutdown and leave when YOU want, not when your 10 year contract ends.

Training is almost identical between the companies, so you know 95% of what the Certa training will teach you. If you are going to run multiple businesses, and painting is one of them, start your own. Most Certa owners that made it NOT their FULL TIME job for eyars failed horribly, or had a hard time transitioning into multiple businesses because of the volume requirements.

Hope my input helps. Certa isn't necessarily bad if used right, but you have WAY more freedom on your own, and get to keep the profit for yourself. Don't waste the money for the "benefit" of being locked in a contract with someone standing over your shoulder collecting a good portion of your overall profit just for using the name and marketing materials.:thumbsup:


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## Gough

cpp said:


> Gough-
> 
> I'm not sure of that specific situation or who that franchise owner may be but there are a few things I would like to ask.
> 
> First: Were you able to actually go test the house for lead paint yourself?
> 
> Second: Are you sure it was College Pro Painters?
> 
> If you went through the EPA training then you have the ability to test for the potential presence of lead with the quick swab kits. If it was College Pro the franchise owner may have tested it and come back negative. Me personally if I had a house that old I would get a lead inspection service to come out and make sure. Maybe the siding was replaced since '78 or even before but never had lead paint?
> 
> As for my other question there are about 4-5 other painting companies around who use a college focus. College works, university painters, student painters, student works, etc... College Pro is the largest of all of them but we also sometimes take the flak from the poor work done by these other groups.
> 
> Lastly, say it was College Pro and there was lead paint on the house, that specific franchise owner may have purely neglected to follow the rules. The company has training sessions that are required to attend before operating your business. He or she had the tools and knowledge to properly prep and paint a lead house. I hope this is not the case and knowing how seriously everyone takes safety I believe the other situations are more likely.


They had several College Pro signs posted on the job.

No, I didn't test the paint on the job, but I'm condfident that the job had LPB based on several factors. I've lived in the neighborhood since 1980 and the house had not had any major exterior work done on it in that time. I estimate the house as being from the '20s, with original siding. I've been painting houses in this town since 1973 and testing for LBP since the '80s. Until this year, I've never done an exterior repaint on a house that didn't have LBP. I can also make a pretty good prediction of the level of LBP based on the age of the house.

"...how seriously everyone takes safety..."? Really? I wish I'd taken some photos.


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## BC_Painter

Gough said:


> They had several College Pro signs posted on the job.
> 
> No, I didn't test the paint on the job, but I'm condfident that the job had LPB based on several factors. I've lived in the neighborhood since 1980 and the house had not had any major exterior work done on it in that time. I estimate the house as being from the '20s, with original siding. I've been painting houses in this town since 1973 and testing for LBP since the '80s. Until this year, I've never done an exterior repaint on a house that didn't have LBP. I can also make a pretty good prediction of the level of LBP based on the age of the house.
> 
> "...how seriously everyone takes safety..."? Really? I wish I'd taken some photos.



Up in Canada, we were never taught a damn thing about lead paint and it's hazards. All CP cared about was getting our volume up to maximize their profits.

I am sure it's different based on the General Manager of the area, how often problems have come up in the area, and the individual business owners. With the severe lack of training I saw first hand, I can't say I'm surprised that this happens. Sometimes things may be done right, but it's probably the exception rather than the rule.

( They also taught us to quote 1 coat and upsell a 2nd if it didn't look good, something I'd NEVER EVER do now )


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## cpp

BC_Painter said:


> Up in Canada, we were never taught a damn thing about lead paint and it's hazards. All CP cared about was getting our volume up to maximize their profits.
> 
> I am sure it's different based on the General Manager of the area, how often problems have come up in the area, and the individual business owners. With the severe lack of training I saw first hand, I can't say I'm surprised that this happens. Sometimes things may be done right, but it's probably the exception rather than the rule.
> 
> ( They also taught us to quote 1 coat and upsell a 2nd if it didn't look good, something I'd NEVER EVER do now )


BC, 

I'm confused were you a painter or a franchise manager and when? Sounds like there were some ethics issues of who ever you’re dealing with if in fact this actually happened but if that was the case I can be certain that person is no longer with the company. I guess everyone has their own experiences but if things were constantly not done right and safely the company wouldn't have survived the last 40 years.


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## cpp

Gough said:


> They had several College Pro signs posted on the job.
> 
> No, I didn't test the paint on the job, but I'm condfident that the job had LPB based on several factors. I've lived in the neighborhood since 1980 and the house had not had any major exterior work done on it in that time. I estimate the house as being from the '20s, with original siding. I've been painting houses in this town since 1973 and testing for LBP since the '80s. Until this year, I've never done an exterior repaint on a house that didn't have LBP. I can also make a pretty good prediction of the level of LBP based on the age of the house.
> 
> "...how seriously everyone takes safety..."? Really? I wish I'd taken some photos.


Obviously we are separated by some distance but if want to private message me more details on the location and approx date range I can forward the info on to the general manager in that area. College pro takes all safety violations very seriously. To me it doesn't sound like something a manager would do but any safety claim is worth looking into.


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## BC_Painter

cpp said:


> BC,
> 
> I'm confused were you a painter or a franchise manager and when? Sounds like there were some ethics issues of who ever you’re dealing with if in fact this actually happened but if that was the case I can be certain that person is no longer with the company. I guess everyone has their own experiences but if things were constantly not done right and safely the company wouldn't have survived the last 40 years.



I started the franchise manager training and left due to lack of training and support.

This was almost 10 years ago. I then worked a couple summers for a successful manager.

Even with the regional training sessions this kind of stuff had never been brought up. Lead's been known as dangerous for a long time, as far as safety goes we basically had ladders stuff only, because it was required for workers comp.


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## ModernStyle

College Pro is a joke. Certa Pro aint much better.
College Pro probably has it some place in their franchise agreement that they cant be held liable for RRP violations. SO they send the kids out and they make the money while they can and if the EPA catches some kid not following the RRP rule, well then the kid will have to pay for it. Hepa Vacs and such will add a pretty big expense to a college kid looking to make some summer bucks, and I am sure College Pro wont do much to make sure they actually have the equipment.


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## Landmark Prop

I know this post is pretty old, but I was a franchise manager for a student painting business in Canada. It wasn't College Pro, but a direct competitor where I live. They have a better name here than College Pro does, but not by much.

Our training was three days in class on bidding, paint failures and such, plus about half a day of painting a hallway at the head office.

In hindsight, I could've made more money in less time mowing lawns or working at a summer camp, but I did gain experience running a business and supervising a crew. The quality of my jobs was very good, but that is mostly due to me hiring an experienced painter to work with me and show me how to do it right, and almost nothing to do my training.

Anyone who says that they're not in business to earn a profit should not own their own business. Sure, providing a quality paint job is the most important thing to consider from a production point of view, but if all you want to accomplish is a quality paint job, then go work for a professional painter for a wage and leave the business owner headaches to them so you can focus on your exceptional paint job.

If you do want to earn a profit as a painting contractor, then the franchise method is not the way to go. Any pro will tell you that once you establish your own name as a good painter, you won't need to borrow a franchiser's name to get work.

The biggest knock I have is the royalties, and the non-compete period isn't any better. When is it in my best interest to pay someone 23% of my GROSS for the privilege of using their trade name and supplier contacts? Don't kid yourself into thinking that you're the boss once you sign the contract, you are now the franchiser's salesperson. They DO NOT CARE if you earn a profit, they just want you to keep booking work.

Here's how I made twice as much money in my second year by booking half the sales... I worked by myself on smaller jobs... tada... spending all my time driving around doing free estimates cost me a lot of time and money, but when I was working on production, our efficiency went up.

BOTTOM LINE: If you know nothing about being a painter you can do well as a paint franchisee if you remember that you get paid out of profit, but if you do know something about painting, then go work for a professional painter and learn the trade properly.


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## SubwayGuy

on this topic I'm just going to link to another post of mine which pretty much says it all as for my views on the topic (not just college pro but ALL "student painter" schemes):

http://www.contractortalk.com/f44/college-pro-83452/index2/#post998575


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## Youcanpaintit

Student Painters have ruined many large painting companies that have been around for years. I personally can't stand them, besides half of them can't paint and it's only the guy at the top who is making the big money. It's this......outsourcing is to china, as cheap quality is to Student Painters.


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## EclipsePainting

I was with College Works Painting for 3 years. The operation is legitimate if you take it seriously and can manage a crew of painters, unfortunately 99 percent of the people who take on the job cannot sell, hire, or manage employees. I did it in Pennsylvania. My painters were PHENOMENAL and our clients loved us. My Freshman year I made about $20k. My sophomore year I ran a larger business and made around $45k. However, you must understand that College Works Painting hires more than 200 kids in Pennsylvania each year and at the end of the Summer there are about 30 kids left from the original 200+ students they hire...Why?...because running a painting business is difficult! They don't emphasize that very much before they hire you. Out of the 30 kids left at the end of the Summer, about 4 are profitable and the other 25 or so made no money. College works takes 40% overhead on every job, not 40% of your profit, 40% of your jobs...so what ever is left over is yours to keep after their overhead, paint, and materials...so people who think college painters is cheap, they aren't, they price well above the industry average. 

Any more questions about it you can ask me.

Thank you.


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## WisePainter

ModernStyle said:


> WisePainter wasnt here so I did what I thought he would do.:whistling


hey now.

I in no way advocate recreating anything I may or may not do, I am a trained professional who has devoted his life to the endeavor.

unless of course you have excellent legal representation on a retainer.


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## mc handyman

I have had no personal experiance with College Pro Painters or any business of their likes but I can say I have an opinion. The majority of college students are looking to define their identity. With joining a business team like CP/SP they are equipped with a vehicle that will help them establish their identity.

They have the oportunity to join a team. They can create brotherhood, gain leadership skills, and establish character and work habits that they otherwise would not. Infact, many students decide to associate with the "in" crowds and follow the "norms" of the university and campus. That is, they choose to binge drink, attend lavish college parties, skip class due to hangovers ect, ect...

So the real question you should be asking is do you wish to see your son develop the characteristics of a leader, gain valuable skills even if they are not pertaining to his or your view of his future? Although the monetary compensation for the students work seems to be bare minimum, would it not make you proud of your son if he does something that will actually benefit him vs the ways of a typical college student?

College students do internships all the time and for little to no pay. How would this truly be that much different? They are gaining valuable work experiance working with a performing group to develop effective communication, time managment, and a valuable referal basis for his future whatever that may entail. I don't think it is a scam. Just because they are not payed well does not make it a scam. If that is a scam then quite everything is a scam in my opinion. Honestly, the biggest "scam" in our nation today is the social security program. It would make Charles Ponzi himself roll in his grave. Everything can be viewed as a scam. Your church, your government, your place of work. There is always a man on top that reaps the rewards for the work that others have sown.

In my own opinion, your son is going to college. Yes? This is where he needs to begin to define his future. His mother and father can not hold his hand forever. He is a fledgling but don't catch him everytime he falls.

Thanks for reading my novel!:clap:


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## WisePainter

mc handyman said:


> I have had no personal experiance with College Pro Painters or any business of their likes but I can say I have an opinion.


This is where I stopped reading...


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## mc handyman

WisePainter said:


> This is where I stopped reading...


:thumbup1: That is pretty cool "Wise"Painter! Would you like a cookie?






Ignorant ...


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## WisePainter

mc handyman said:


> :thumbup1: That is pretty cool "Wise"Painter! Would you like a cookie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignorant ...



Honey, "ignorant" is admitting you know nothing about a certain topic up front, then posting a novel length opinion on said topic.

never again approach me making eye contact with your head higher than mine...evar.


:notworthy: <------ you


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## mc handyman

WisePainter said:


> Honey, "ignorant" is admitting you know nothing about a certain topic up front, then posting a novel length opinion on said topic.
> 
> never again approach me making eye contact with your head higher than mine...evar.
> 
> 
> :notworthy: <------ you


 
:thumbdown:<------ you

You never told what kind of cookie you wanted.:w00t:


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## WisePainter

mc handyman said:


> :thumbdown:<------ you
> 
> You never told what kind of cookie you wanted.:w00t:



If I had a penny for every thumbs down I've recieved from 20 years of posting on teh netz (BB's back in the day)...you know the rest.

No cookie thank you (treats from strangers issue), however thunderous applause that is way excessive in duration works though.

As a matter of fact I actually burned a cd with a continuos loop of exactly that to listen to as I drive around, after I "get some", or when I am feeling a bit "blue"...Sherwin Williams blue #6508 to be exact.


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## mc handyman

WisePainter said:


> If I had a penny for every thumbs down I've recieved from 20 years of posting on teh netz (BB's back in the day)...you know the rest.
> 
> No cookie thank you (treats from strangers issue), however thunderous applause that is way excessive in duration works though.
> 
> As a matter of fact I actually burned a cd with a continuos loop of exactly that to listen to as I drive around, after I "get some", or when I am feeling a bit "blue"...Sherwin Williams blue #6508 to be exact.


YOU KNOW WHAT!!! YOU ARE ....

















GOD!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
I had to give in...


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## WisePainter

that was my nickname back in high school...


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## Dfnoboy

Some background on me... I've been painting houses with my dad and his friend for three years. Last year, I signed up as a college pro franchisee. So, 2 years independent experience, 1 year with College Pro.

Anyways, College Pro is a good company. If you're considering joining them as a franchisee, just know that it's all on you. You're being thrown into a company management position, and they will not hold your hand. They will train you and guide you, but the rest is up to you... You can lead a horse to water, but not make him drink.

To anyone who is thinking of working for College Pro as a painter... you need to be interviewing your boss as much as he is interviewing you. These are college students, most of which have little or no experience leading a work crew, OR painting houses. Don't work for them if they seem irresponsible, because they will be the ones responsible for your paycheck. This is just common sense, but after reading around the net, I feel like I have to say it anyways.

To anyone considering hiring a College Pro franchisee to paint your house... it's the same as the above paragraph. Only hire them if you feel they will do a good job. You should be evaluating whoever is going to paint your house anyways; college student or contractor, you should be asking them tough questions. If you get ripped off, or they do a bad job, just remember that YOU HIRED THEM. You had every chance to find out if they were responsible.

bottom line: The situation will only be as good as the franchisee can make it. The franchisee is responsible for 99% of the job, so the blame (or praise) should lay with them. 
This also goes for people who want to WORK for College Pro as a franchisee. It's up to you how good a job you do. 

The first post in this thread, with the kid complaining "I had to do all the marketing and find all the jobs myself"... LOL! Duh, dude, and you knew this before you signed any contract. It's like no one knows the value of hard work, or even responsibility.


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## Steve Richards

Thanks for the info.

Nice first post!


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## CarrPainting

I worked for a painter a few years ago who subbed under certa Pro... this was the deal at that time from what my boss told me...

CertaPro takes 52% of the job right off the top. Provides you with 2 gallons of paint. You have to carry atleast $1,000,000 in liability, and sign an agreement that you assume all responsibility for every job you take on as a sub... Read: NOT a Franchise....If those 2 gallons dont make it, you must buy the paint out of your remaining 48% using their account at the paint store.

So you lose the tax write off... you must hire your own crew, and hopefully make it happen. My former boss couldnt make it happen. On top of that, nost of the jobs he was given, were outside the normal range, Like remember going 20 miles one way to the job site... it was a botched deal... Ill never allow my company to submit to that bs...

On the flip side of that coin I have seen College Pro work... and have seen the other subs certpro uses, talk about a bunch of hacks...So far this year I have done two college pro jobs... repaints... they prepped nothing. primed nothing... caulked nothing... glazed nothing... their idea, from what I seen, is to caulk = flood crack with paint and call it done... how these people even get paid is beyond me.


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## Langpony

Two days training for all aspects of the painting business. Draw your own conclusions.


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## jacobb30

*Find the right people*

I am just finishing up my first year of Student Painters, and thought I'd come back and look at all of the negative reviews that I saw before I began, to see how they compare to my experience.

Some companies are worse than others. Some division managers, district managers, branch managers, and painters are worse than others. That's understandable, you're not going to get the exact same experience everywhere. These are the kind of people that don't last even going into the summer, for a reason. Just as a ballpark, in the state of Michigan for Student Painters, there were 60 students who were at winter training, and I believe there are only around 18 left. It's survival of the fittest.
I did run a $100,000 business at 19 y/o. I did profit over $20k to help pay for college. I did satisfy every single customer to meet what the expectations of the job were.
For the 40% royalty charge, I received EPA training (which I'll be certified now for awhile), insurance, warranty, full executive, VP, Pres. and even CEO support. My painters received as much training as anyone could need to paint siding, trim and windows (anyone with good work ethic is more than capable of doing a high quality exterior paint job, given the right leadership). There is a full staff at the corporate office an hour from my branch, which are always there to help me and answer any questions that a homeowner might have. I learned more about sales, marketing, and recruiting than I would have in a beginners business class, along with a great looking resume.

My advice to homeowners - give the manager a shot. Take the free estimate, give them an hour of your time, and you will be able to gauge what kind of business they are running. Listen to their presentation, look at references, find out more about their painters. In the end, it comes down to three things - expectations, communication, and price. If the price is right for exactly what he/she says they will do, and can visibly show that they've done it before, you will come out happy in the end.

Advice to painters - make sure you will be happy with working long hours. If the manager is smart, you'll work 4 days a week, averaging 10 hours a day, getting in a full paycheck while still having a three day weekend for your summer. If you can't deal with the heat, time commitment, or just straight up aren't being treated right, then 100% it's not worth it. But you can make a significant amount more than minimum wage if you work hard, and again, under the correct leadership. I know that all of my painters made way more money this year than they ever have before, or would have anywhere else in the area that was hiring.

Lastly, college kids interested in business - think about how much you are willing to do not only in the summer, but in the semester leading up. Going home on the weekends to recruit and cold call in the snow, make sales before you even know who is going to be painting for you, and then go back to school for class Monday morning isn't for everyone, especially since you don't see your first commission check until you actually start producing (obviously). It is hard at times, but the key is to set it up so that your business works for itself and you just have to be the smiling face on the cover to gain credibility. It takes perseverance and a lot of commitment. There are people that spent 6 months working on their business and barely made minimum wage, and there are others that put up numbers even the higher ups in the company barely make. It's a risk with a lot of reward, including free cruises, dinners, unlimited pizza, sporting events, and new friends.

I'm sorry to everyone who had an awful experience with college kids painting in your area, I even know my competitor has not exactly been doing the most quality work. 

Long story short, if the right person is in your area (especially if it's Michigan), it is a very good experience for everyone involved.


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## Big Johnson

jacobb30 said:


> I am just finishing up my first year of Student Painters, and thought I'd come back and look at all of the negative reviews that I saw before I began, to see how they compare to my experience.
> .



Was it anything like this:


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## 91782

jacobb30 said:


> I am just finishing up ....
> Long story short,


I cut out the fluff


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## MarkJames

Hiring them for an exterior paint job would be about as bright as getting major vehicle work done from "Student Car Repair".


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## Idothat

Years ago, when I worked as a painter at a fairly good sized company, they would hire college kid as helpers. By the end of the summer, some of them would be good helpers
I was glad when they went back to school...didn't have to redo all the prep work


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## avenge

Last time I saw college painters they were doing the wrong house. Painters suck, college painters really suck.


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## Idothat

Hey, I resemble that remark


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## Idothat

Once had a guy answer an add I had for "painter"
Me: do you drink?
Him: nope
Me: do you use drugs?
Him: never touch the stuff
Me: do you have a drivers license?
Him: sure do
Me: can't use you
Him: why not
Me: because, you can't be a painter. You don't drink or do drugs and you have a drivers license


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