# Ditra installation question



## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Hi guys, 
I have this client that he wants me install slates on his patio.The patio sits over mostly occupied space and concrete subfloor.
I am a wood floor guy, but I installed slate in a interior octagonal room where it meets the wood flooring for the same client last year. I do it occasionally for some clients.
So they are pleased with my work, after some research I have decided to use Ditra under the slates.
But there is a need for a solution where the slates meets the walls.
The exterior walls are natural stone and have positioned just about 1/2" higher than concrete subfloor. The concrete has sloped for water drainage already.
Ditra asks Kerdi-Band along floor/wall edges and extending the tiles/slates to the wall like baseboards.Dilex-exe and Rondec/Jolly combination.Client and I have agreed that will not look right.
I appreciate input of anyone with experience with this issue.
Thanks
this is NOT the actual job pic but walls looks like this;of course there is no flooring in actual job.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Why was Ditra the choice? 

My problem with Ditra for exterior is you are to use unmodified under the Ditra. How many unmodifieds can you find that have a guarantee for freeze/thaw conditions? Sure it may not freeze in Austin but can you say never? Never ever?

Why not spec Hydro Ban? 
http://www.laticrete.com/architects/products/waterproofing/productid/7.aspx

Double coat in corners and up the wall. One product. Done.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I always use keribond kerilastic and epoxy grout.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Can't use Keralastic under the Ditra.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Can't use Keralastic under the Ditra.



Did I say I used Ditra?:whistling

I had to scarify 2 porches because of sealer.

Those are not fun machines to use.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Did I say I used Ditra?:whistling


Uh, no. I suppose not.

However, the OP was considering Ditra for a reason, that's why I asked.

Waterproofing? Crack isolation?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Uh, no. I suppose not.
> 
> However, the OP was considering Ditra for a reason, that's why I asked.
> 
> Waterproofing? Crack isolation?



You talking to me?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> You talking to me?



Nope. Trying to figure out why Ditra is being spec'd.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I did my front porch here in Ontario a couple of years ago. I poured concrete on top of the existing 4x4 step (to level it, and yes, I corrected the problem as to why it went wonky!), I also poured another pad beside it, covered it all with ditra (with kerdi band) and laid 12x24 porcelain tile on top with epoxy grout to finish it off. Looks the same today as when I put it in. I'm pretty sure I used Lat 317 with some keralastic to set the ditra, then 317 to set the tiles.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

With the recent posts of guys having Ditra "fail", I will stand by my comment that you should _not _use modified under Ditra over concrete. 

I understand there are guys that have their own "secret" methods but if you're doing an install for a customer outside over a slab, consider using Laticrete Hydro Ban. It's designed for this application. Works. Warranty in place. :thumbsup:


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Thanks for your comments.
Angus, I just know that I need to use something for waterproofing because the patio is over occupied space and have a crack which is filled now.( I was 100% sure I would get a response from you when I posted-thanks)
I said Ditra because my quick research showed that and I was also knew that I can get better advise in here from experienced pro's. Once or twice a year freezing happens in Austin as well.
I don't care Ditra brand, I just want the job done properly.I appreciate your recommendation. I will look into Laticrete Hydro Ban,but I'm afraid I will still have an issue finishing at the walls. 
How do I need to finish the wall edges?
Sam


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

astor said:


> How do I need to finish the wall edges?
> Sam


Hydro Ban.


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Wow, this Laticrete Hydro Ban is cool, it is like Bostik's MVP4 (Moisture Vapor Protection-liquid plastic membrane that dries when it is spread over any surface within short time)for hardwood floors that I use sometimes.Way easier and cost effective!
Looks like Hydro Ban is used a lot in pools, since it is liquid and thin, I am guessing I may not need use baseboard tiles in this project. Any input?
Can someone tell me why spreading with trowel used in some cases.I can see it will ended up with thicker coat, any advantage of that? also in that case if second coat is required.
Thanks


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

astor said:


> I am guessing I may not need use baseboard tiles in this project. Any input?


I would, if for at least aesthetics only. Not sure how you'd finish it otherwise.




astor said:


> Can someone tell me why spreading with trowel used in some cases.I can see it will ended up with thicker coat, any advantage of that? also in that case if second coat is required.


Yes, you want to do _minimum _2 coats. The down-side or "weak link" with liquid membranes, to me, is the chance of not getting enough coverage and/or pin holes. You need to really be cautious with the minimum MIL thickness recommended. 3 coats in corners is _not _a bad thing :thumbsup:


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

angus242 said:


> I would, if for at least aesthetics only. Not sure how you'd finish it otherwise.


The natural stone on the walls, just like the pic above.It has deep grout lines and a bit more than 1/2" above the subfloor.The HO does not want the slate attached to the walls. The subfloor is already sloped,what are the chances of getting water through there, top is mostly open.
I will post actual job site pics tomorrow.





angus242 said:


> Yes, you want to do _minimum _2 coats. The down-side or "weak link" with liquid membranes, to me, is the chance of not getting enough coverage and/or pin holes. You need to really be cautious with the minimum MIL thickness recommended. 3 coats in corners is _not _a bad thing :thumbsup:


I dont mind applying 3 coats over the whole surface, question is if I spread with V notch first and flatten like the video shows and apply 1 or two with roller makes better or no difference.
Thanks


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

astor said:


> The natural stone on the walls, just like the pic above.It has deep grout lines and a bit more than 1/2" above the subfloor.The HO does not want the slate attached to the walls. The subfloor is already sloped,what are the chances of getting water through there, top is mostly open.


I understand. You still need to address the corner and apply as high as is recommended. Not sure if you will be able to mask the Hydro Ban on the wall then.



astor said:


> I dont mind applying 3 coats over the whole surface, question is if I spread with V notch first and flatten like the video shows and apply 1 or two with roller makes better or no difference.
> Thanks


I'd hate to say that using a particular method will absolutely always achieve the same result. I'm not a fan of the trowel because there's no room for error. Press too hard with a trowel and you could have made an error. I prefer a roller or brush.


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Thanks Angus, I really appreciated, I think I can apply as high as possible, maybe 3-4 coats around the parameters of the area and float test before.
I also like to use Keralastik over this, will that be ok?
Even I have not used before but it sounds like Epoxy grout is also right choice?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Yep, Kerabond + Keralastic is my favorite modified combo! Excellent stuff!

Epoxy grout is an excellent choice. And while I will get some flack from other members by saying this, for a first time user, it can be a bit difficult to install. But that's about the only negative thing I can say about it (well except some are allergic to it too).

I prefer to use QuatrzLock urethane grout by Star Quartz. It's still relatively new to the market place (4 + years) but I have had _excellent _results with it. Similar, if not better stats than epoxy and super easy to install (no allergies). Spread about 4 sq ft & wipe. If you're careful with your spreading/wiping, you can get away with a single cleaning. I also feel they offer a better color palette. 
http://www.starquartz.com/grout.html

Either way, you can't go wrong!


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Astor----I am tiling a shower floor today that is protected with HydroBan----

This is my first experience with the product. I must say--It's easy to apply--dries quickly--and looks like what you need for the work you are planning.

I've got it sold on the next job too. This HydroBan will be used a lot on future jobs.--Mike---

The epoxy grout is not bad to use--nice open time---Have plenty of sponges--save a couple of new ones for the final wipe---Plan on throwing them away at the end of the job---M--

This whole post could have been summed up by saying,"Angus is right,listen to him."


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

that starquartz looks awesome. i'm going to try that. i love that it's already mixed. how hard it is to get off if you miss any spots. i'm thinking about ceramic tiles that are made to look like stone but not stone. all those little divits but they aren't really holes like you'd find in real stone tile. 
How well does it keep from job to job if you had an offwhite color or common grout color to reuse, or can you buy small quantities and throw the rest out for each job?


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