# Help, I hired a drinker



## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Sounds like you should review your hiring practices. While "Breathing" is a requirement for a new hire, it's not a qualification. Guy comes in, plays you, and still has a job. How's this going to end up to your benefit?

Maybe the guy is capable of performing to your expectations, maybe not. So far you've allowed him way too much leeway. You haven't really said what his job is (sounds like basic labor), but it sounds like he doesn't much respect the job or you.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Hiring practices are strained as of late. If you’ve got a lot of high quality folks itching to do demolition labor in your neighborhood, send them my way.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

I haven’t been played, as far as I can tell. Guy said he would do better and he has. That’s the object behind reviewing performance.

The benefit to me will be if my faith in his ability to get his **** together yields me a reliable, loyal worker. If he doesn’t figure it out, he’ll be gone. I’ve had plenty of worse applicants in my Indeed inbox.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Well now it’s ****ing with my head so I fired him and his roommate.

Now hiring.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

reggi said:


> Well now it’s ****ing with my head so I fired him and his roommate.
> 
> Now hiring.


I've fired a whole crew twice. 

Talk about burning the candle at both ends 😆


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Jaws said:


> I've fired a whole crew twice.
> 
> Talk about burning the candle at both ends 😆


I kept one so he can tell the tale.


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

Booze addled brains just don't work right. Though there are exceptions.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> That's why I keep it small, I have no patience with drama.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk


Yep, more bodies is more personalities and more drama. 

My old man and I were at a Remodelers Advantage roundtable in New Orleans and I took growth and scaling roundtables and my dad took a couple Legacy roundtables that discussed succession - he walked out of the second and said we'd already passed where they were talking. He sat in on one of mine I couldn't make as I was in a accounting seminar, and a friend of mine through RA and Builder20 whose a builder in another state was in there. He said the facilitator asked asked my dad (to engage him in the conversation, he was just sitting there all stoic and chit) how did you know when it was time to hire and grow sir? 

He didn't hesitate and said if it was just my show I'd of stopped growing when I ran out of sons. They seem to want to take it a bit further so you should ask them 😆

He's not built for drama either lol. 

When we left that convention he said that gal (Victoria Downing) sure has a sure fire way of making money, 6k a year, and then you pay her a profit to rent a hotel and set up some dinner and then put contractors in rooms to talk among themselves 😆


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Pounder said:


> Booze addled brains just don't work right. Though there are exceptions.


It catches up eventually


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

Lot's of people drink and smoke. Some are good employees and some are a pain in the rear.
You have hired one of the latter and it's time to cut him from the herd.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Mr Latone said:


> Sounds like you should review your hiring practices. While "Breathing" is a requirement for a new hire, it's not a qualification. Guy comes in, plays you, and still has a job. How's this going to end up to your benefit?
> 
> Maybe the guy is capable of performing to your expectations, maybe not. So far you've allowed him way too much leeway. You haven't really said what his job is (sounds like basic labor), but it sounds like he doesn't much respect the job or you.


Tough to hear, but I appreciate your advice. Guy’s gone. It sucks to put a guy out of work when you know he’s struggling, but them’s the breaks.

Cheers.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

My brother is finishing a patio cover for someone in home hospice- kidneys and liver failing.

Construction worker, years of drugs and drink. Body is failing.

51 years old. Two adult children, two preteens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Actually you did him a favor he doesn't even realize yet.


Mike.
*___*


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## Gene Murray (Jul 21, 2021)

W


reggi said:


> I picked up a new guy last week. First day was Thursday. Uneventful. Friday, I told him to take a break and offered to let him run the ac in my new F550 and chill for a few while I ran the lull for a few.
> 
> I looked over at him a few times while I was driving and he’s got the truck running, ac on, door wide open, and he’s sitting on the seat with his legs on the running board, playing with his phone. I think, “Goodness this guy is too old to not know how AC works.”
> 
> ...





TxElectrician said:


> That's why I keep it small, I have no patience with drama.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

Fishindude said:


> Lot's of people drink and smoke. Some are good employees and some are a pain in the rear.
> You have hired one of the latter and it's time to cut him from the herd.


I can't have a smoker on the job. I'm a hard core nicotine addict and just a scent of smoke wakes up the 800 pound gorilla on my back. I'd be up to a pack and a half a day within a month. The personal cost of quitting was way to high to risk going back.
Everyone has their kryptonite, smoking is mine.


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## Gene Murray (Jul 21, 2021)

reggi said:


> I picked up a new guy last week. First day was Thursday. Uneventful. Friday, I told him to take a break and offered to let him run the ac in my new F550 and chill for a few while I ran the lull for a few.
> 
> I looked over at him a few times while I was driving and he’s got the truck running, ac on, door wide open, and he’s sitting on the seat with his legs on the running board, playing with his phone. I think, “Goodness this guy is too old to not know how AC works.”
> 
> ...





TxElectrician said:


> That's why I keep it small, I have no patience with drama.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk


WTF??


Gene Murray said:


> W


re drinker on job. WTF? Pay this guy money owed and tell him to hit the road. Can’t believe you put up all that nonsense. You need to lose him like a bad habit. Slowing the whole operation down.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Gene Murray said:


> WTF??
> 
> re drinker on job. WTF? Pay this guy money owed and tell him to hit the road. Can’t believe you put up all that nonsense. You need to lose him like a bad habit. Slowing the whole operation down.


Well, he's been gone for hours now. He wasn't actually drinking on the job...

Thanks for the sage advice.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Hey Reggi,

I appreciate the difficulty finding hires for work that not a whole lot of folks are even willing to consider, but that's the work you are doing so I guess you have to do your best t figure it out. Hopefully the labor pool will provide better next time.

When I said you were getting "played", it was just a reference to the circumstance. He was getting away with doing things his way. He was playing with a much looser set of rules than you liked. That's all. So now he's gone and you will suffer some by being short handed. I suspect your suffering would have been worse should you have kept the dead wood around. If your only potential hires are like this one, I guess that puts you in a pretty tough spot. I wish you the best.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Reggi, I am a moderator that has gone a bit into the shadows herein the last couple years and only do behind the scenes work like nuking spammers etc. here anymore but I have to say that your sense of humor makes me laugh at least twice a week. 

As far as the drinker thing, some can be what is called a functioning alcoholic for years without detection except for the slight waft of smell in the morning but do great otherwise. Doesn't sound like it applies in your case.

Again, I enjoy your posts so keep them coming!


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Mr Latone said:


> Hey Reggi,
> 
> I appreciate the difficulty finding hires for work that not a whole lot of folks are even willing to consider, but that's the work you are doing so I guess you have to do your best t figure it out. Hopefully the labor pool will provide better next time.
> 
> When I said you were getting "played", it was just a reference to the circumstance. He was getting away with doing things his way. He was playing with a much looser set of rules than you liked. That's all. So now he's gone and you will suffer some by being short handed. I suspect your suffering would have been worse should you have kept the dead wood around. If your only potential hires are like this one, I guess that puts you in a pretty tough spot. I wish you the best.


I suspect I only got defensive at your choice of words because they were true and I hadn’t realized it yet.

It’s sometimes hard for me to be objective about hiring/firing criteria when I’m dealing with a real person that I get along with, not some hypothetical laborer.

I appreciate you taking the time to put in your $.02.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Robie said:


> My biggest regret for a few reasons is not joining the military and spending 20+ years at it.


I thought for sure I would be a lifer. 20 years started sounding really long, really quickly. But some guys love it and I respect that.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

reggi said:


> I thought for sure I would be a lifer. 20 years started sounding really long, really quickly. But some guys love it and I respect that.


20 years has been a blink of an eye but yes, when you are young, it seems like a lifetime.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Robie said:


> 20 years has been a blink of an eye but yes, when you are young, it seems like a lifetime.


Well, it sounds even longer when you’re sleeping in the dirt and making 2 grand a month.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I thought you liked excitement?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Our strong saftey is now a CWO in the Marine Corps, he was enlisted until a while back. He's doing 30. Our tail back retired this month as a master sergeant in the Marines, 20 years. He said his wife is fed up or he'd go for 30. 

Our 20 year reunion is this weekend


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

reggi said:


> Well, it sounds even longer when you’re sleeping in the dirt and making 2 grand a month.


Did that include combat pay?


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Robie said:


> Did that include combat pay?


You mean tattoo and stripper allowance? No, I can’t remember but it was more.

I left because I had a feeling I had got what I would get from it. Haven’t looked back on the military per se but I do miss living with a rifle and taking living one minute to the next. There’s no rush quite like bullets cracking over your head. If I could’ve stayed in that state, I’d be doing it still. But the depression hits hard when the stimulus is removed.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

reggi said:


> You mean tattoo and stripper allowance? No, I can’t remember but it was more.
> 
> I left because I had a feeling I had got what I would get from it. Haven’t looked back on the military per se but I do miss living with a rifle and taking living one minute to the next. There’s no rush quite like bullets cracking over your head. If I could’ve stayed in that state, I’d be doing it still. But the depression hits hard when the stimulus is removed.



*“There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at with no result.”*

― Winston Churchill


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Interesting...

*A Guide to Combat Pay in the United States Military*
*The military provides bonus pay for dangerous work*









•••


BY 
ROD POWERS
Updated January 21, 2019
As of 2018, a military member assigned to or deployed to a combat zone receives bonus combat pay (officially called "hostile fire" or "imminent danger pay"), at a rate of $225 per month. It is in addition to their regular pay rate.

Being assigned to or working in a combat zone also triggers a tax advantage in some locations. Congress and/or the president can designate combat zones as "Tax Exempt" areas.

Earnings received while in these combat zones are not subject to federal tax withholding.

*Rules for Military Hazardous Duty Pay*
This exclusion is unlimited for enlisted members and is limited to the maximum enlisted pay amount for officers and warrant officers. If you spend a single qualifying day in the combat zone, your pay for the entire month is excluded from taxable income, and you receive $225 in combat pay for that month.

Any other bonuses and special pay you receive will also be excluded from federal tax withholding if you earn them while in a combat zone. For example, a reenlistment bonus is excluded from taxes if the member reenlists in the same month in which the member also served in a combat zone.

Since there is no limitation on amounts excluded for enlisted members, the entire reenlistment bonus would be excluded.

As another example, an officer's flight pay would also be excluded from taxable income, but only up to the point which basic pay and the flight pay do not exceed the maximum enlisted pay amount.

*Hazard Pay and Other Allowances*
In addition to imminent danger pay and the tax exclusion, some areas qualify for a special monthly allowance called hardship duty pay. Military members with dependents also receive a Family Separation Allowance (FSA) of $250 per month any time they are away from their families due to military orders for 30 days or longer.

Finally, members in a combat zone are authorized to deposit up to $10,000 (per year) of their pay and allowances into a special savings account that pays a guaranteed 10 percent interest per year.

This program was established during the Vietnam era and then phased out at the end of the Vietnam War. However, it was revived in 1991 during the Gulf War, and the program still exists today.

In addition to the combat zones listed below, personnel stationed in Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are eligible to use the tax-free program if they are supporting combat operations in Afghanistan, even though they are not physically in Afghanistan.

Here are the currently designated combat zones- for members of the U.S. military as of 2018.

*Countries in Designated Combat Zones*

Afghanistan
Albania
Bahrain
Djibouti 
Iraq
Jordan 
Kosovo
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Lebanon 
Oman
Pakistan
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Serbia/Montenegro
Somalia
Syria 
Tajikistan
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan 
Yemen 

*Bodies of Water Considered Military Combat Zones*

The Persian Gulf
The Red Sea
The Gulf of Oman
The part of the Arabian Sea that is north of 10 degrees north latitude and west of 68 degrees east longitude
The Gulf of Aden
The Adriatic Sea
The Ionian Sea north of the 39th parallel









A Guide to Combat (Imminent Danger) Pay in the United States Military


Members of the military assigned or deployed to a combat zone receive a monthly bonus. They're also entitled to tax breaks while in a combat area.




www.thebalancecareers.com


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

My nephew the sniper was offered 80k tax free to do a 3rd tour but turned it down. He's trying to become a cop.


Mike.
*___*


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

reggi said:


> Jaws, I found a pic of you repoing a white SUV back in the day.



Naw, this is Jaws:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Big Johnson said:


> Naw, this is Jaws:



🤣🤣🤣

Unfortunately not that exciting lol


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## krowraven7 (Nov 12, 2014)

*those types are like carrying around a bucket with a hole in it .NEVER AGAIN FOR ME.*


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Fishindude said:


> Lot's of people drink and smoke. Some are good employees and some are a pain in the rear.
> You have hired one of the latter and it's time to cut him from the herd.


There's drinkers and there's DRINKERS.

I'll have a beer or two on the weekend or on a Friday so technically I'm a "drinker".
But that's a long shot to the guy that's buzzed by 7, and passes out drunk a few hours later every night.

We had a couple guys over the last year we had this problem with.
One recently was very much like OP's guy but probably was 20-30 years older.
He lasted about two weeks then we had to cut him loose.

Had another about a year ago that was the "functional" (mostly) type. Clean cut, hard worker, did quality work, very likeable.
After a month or so he started slipping. Would call in, or have an AWOL day. It was about once/twice a month so not all the time.
But when he was here he was 100% and we are perpetually short on people so we kept him.
When COVID hit we had no idea what our business was going to be like.
Things were looking like they'd be slow so we laid him off.

Turns out things were better than fine and we had a decent year despite everything.
And this year, is this year, you all know how it is right now.

Even though we're desperate for people we haven't brought him back on, we figured out it's not worth it though that may change.

It sucks finding people right now. Wages are rising fast in other industries, our costs are going up. We we do find people we're lucky if they make it a week.


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

I’ve had guys in the past that downed a 6’er before 7 a.m. much less p.m. On the road had no choice on tight government jobs

Mike


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Just reminds me of the house I call piss house, because every morning the guy would be out there with a beer having his morning pee on the side of the house.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> Just reminds me of the house I call piss house, because every morning the guy would be out there with a beer *feeding the bushes and killing the bugs *on the side of the house.


FIFY...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Some of you sound like yall hang out at the ice capades 

Without giving it much thought I can name 5 carpenters on one hand and five contractors who are legitimately alcoholics who are on time and working hard everyday, a couple of the contractors produce more work than 5 small contractors. It does not affect their work they are seasoned drunks. Lol.

I know a framing contractor in passing that is litterally the guy whose in a drunken stupor 6 days a week by 9 pm and he's on the road at 6 am. He's too production based for me but he runs a tight ship as far as getting 

One of my subs I suspect is about the same 

Chitty way to live imho, but it's not my business, and as long as they keep their obligations and their work is tight doesn't affect my dealings with them


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Kingcarpenter1 said:


> I’ve had guys in the past that downed a 6’er before 7 a.m. much less p.m. On the road had no choice on tight government jobs
> 
> Mike


I know what you meant to say, but if you read it just right, sounds like you’re saying on tight government jobs there’s no time to get your beer in so you gotta pound them in the am before work lol.


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

When the h/o comes in & wants to check out his new cabinets just installed, not pretty when he finds a cold beer in there. Happened on 1 of my clients’ house. If they are drinking before they show up, they are drinking while they are there. Just sayin’ 

Mike


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

Kingcarpenter1 said:


> I’ve had guys in the past that downed a 6’er before 7 a.m. much less p.m. On the road had no choice on tight government jobs


Had no choice w/the help. Thanks Reg

Mike


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Jaws said:


> Some of you sound like yall hang out at the ice capades
> 
> Without giving it much thought I can name 5 carpenters on one hand and five contractors who are legitimately alcoholics who are on time and working hard everyday, a couple of the contractors produce more work than 5 small contractors. It does not affect their work they are seasoned drunks. Lol.
> 
> ...


HA! You're not wrong.

I've ran across plenty of guys that were high functioning alcoholics. I could care less what people do on their time as long as it doesn't affect their work.

One problem we have is allot of the tradesmen left our area or changed careers in the 2008 crash. It's been slim pickings for a long time.
The good ones have their pick of work.
Also we have now have company trucks so we HAVE (insurance) to care a bit more thatn an outfit where the workers have their own rigs.

We lost one of our most reliable guys who did our property management/handyman work because of the damn truck. Turns out he was a TERRIBLE driver. We got several calls on him from random people, have never had ANY call on any other driver since we got trucks. He had all kinds of hard stop and hard cornering alerts. Ended up poisoning the work relationship and it was over.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Speaking of Ice Capades

We had a young guy a couple months ago who came in on his first day to do his paperwork and all that.
He kept asking "do you do paint grade or stain grade?". I kept telling him "it varies, depends on the job".
He was so fixated on that. He kept asking the project manager who interviewed him the same thing and got the same answer.
Kept wantting to know "do I need a paintbrush?".

He didn't last much more than an hour, once he met the super and said "I won't paint" he got a "then it's not going to work out" and got booted.

He might have been the best finish guy around but he wasn't even willing to prove himself. We're not anywhere near big enough to have guys that specialized "high end finish carpenter".
He needs a huge company or maybe to work at a cabinet shop.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

DeskJockey said:


> Speaking of Ice Capades
> 
> We had a young guy a couple months ago who came in on his first day to do his paperwork and all that.
> He kept asking "do you do paint grade or stain grade?". I kept telling him "it varies, depends on the job".
> ...


I feel you, no place for divas, but the big fella doesn't paint either. Never have never will. No brushes in my truck when I was a hand or a contractor 

My dad hated that chit, I didn't paint for him either when I was in high school. No drywall mud or finishing either. I've hung thousands of sheets but only done one patch lol

My brother and dad are both awesome finish guys. 

Always more appropriate tasks for me, I prime steel on my own personal projects but not paint. Been subbing paint out on my personal home since I was 22 or so. What can I say, I'm a diva 😆

Fwiw I have a few hands I wouldn't let paint a barn or touch up siding, im.one of those 😆


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I actually went to quit a job when I was 19, was working for a builder and he wanted us to paint some siding. Or his super did. I told him I didn't paint and he told me to take the long walk, I would have to. His boss said put on the deck joists though 😆


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

DeskJockey said:


> HA! You're not wrong.
> 
> I've ran across plenty of guys that were high functioning alcoholics. I could care less what people do on their time as long as it doesn't affect their work.
> 
> ...


Yep company trucks take a different turn, we have several. Guys have to park them at the shop at night. 

I am generally the one that gets called in for flipping somebody off or if they won't let me over I just go over anyway. Lol.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

There's a pretty big painter up here that hires people who lost their drivers license. Sends a van around to pick up the crew every day. Those guys tend to work hard, and dib''t last if they don't.

Just like everybody else.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Jaws said:


> I've fired a whole crew twice.
> 
> Talk about burning the candle at both ends


Me too, I may have done it 3 times

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> There's a pretty big painter up here that hires people who lost their drivers license. Sends a van around to pick up the crew every day. Those guys tend to work hard, and dib''t last if they don't.
> 
> Just like everybody else.


That's one way to control the schedule...


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Jaws said:


> I feel you, no place for divas, but the big fella doesn't paint either. Never have never will. No brushes in my truck when I was a hand or a contractor
> 
> My dad hated that chit, I didn't paint for him either when I was in high school. No drywall mud or finishing either. I've hung thousands of sheets but only done one patch lol
> 
> ...


I get that, you gotta know what you will and won't do AND what your guys are capable of.

The funny thing was we have a painter and that guy probably would not have had to paint.
And we recently got our foot in the door in a really high-end community here in town. Had just outfitted a wine room with solid oak racks and trim.
If he was even half as good as he though he was he probably would have been a great guy to have.

Good story on "not letting" certain hands touch certain things:
We removed a couple cabinets in our office that had nice maple trim.
Our guy was tasked with shortening the trim. I saw him mark the material WITH A SHARPIE and he cut it and put it in with a 3/16" gap in the miter.
Obviously he was "paint grade" guy lol.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

DeskJockey said:


> Our guy was tasked with shortening the trim. I saw him mark the material WITH A SHARPIE and he cut it and put it in with a 3/16" gap in the miter.
> Obviously he was "paint grade" guy lol.


I don’t get it.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Fat sharpies are for pvc fittings.....


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

Again, an ace carp can make a bad painter look good. Don’t work the other way

Mike


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Kingcarpenter1 said:


> Again, an ace carp can make a bad painter look good. Don’t work the other way
> 
> Mike


No mistakes get past a good demo guy. Might take thirty years but…


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Me too, I may have done it 3 times
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


Good to see you back Andy. How's the new gig going?

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Funniest/saddest drunk story I have...when I was 20 or so I would pick up a guy every morning. Every day after work we would stop at the liquor store. I would get a single beer, and he would get a pint of whiskey and a coke.

By the time I dropped him off, about 20 minutes, the pint and a sip of coke would be gone.

One day he told me he had to quit, couldn't go on like this, drinking everyday and working.

Next morning went to pick him up, he asked what are you doing here, I told you I had to quit!

Few years later I heard he had got drunk on his mother's porch, fell off onto a farm implement and died.


Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk


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## Ed Corrigan (Jul 18, 2019)

hdavis said:


> Just reminds me of the house I call piss house, because every morning the guy would be out there with a beer having his morning pee on the side of the house.


GET OUTTA MY YARD!!!

😂😂😂


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## Djea3 (Jul 6, 2020)

reggi said:


> Or tell him, bro, you need to get squared away real fast. His roommate works for me too so that’s going to be awkward.


First, you have a LEGAL ISSUE. If he comes to the job with alcohol in his system (i.e. hungover from a really long night) and you allow him to work that is on you altogether. Hungover means UNSAFE, unsafe means harm to property and persons. Do NOT allow it at all. ZERO TOLERANCE.
When I say that I mean, if you know and or believe the guy is unsafe then take him for a blood test. If positive and above your state's zero threshold then terminate immediately. Tell all other employees that he is NOT allowed on any job site and to call the POLICE if he arrives.

I am not the boss on any job site and not the job super, but I have made it clear that any weed or alcohol on the job and I will oder those persons off the job site PERSONALLY. I tell the super the reason is I WANT TO GO HOME TO MY WIFE AND FAMILY UNINJURED and do not with to be a WITNESS to property damage due to inebriation. The Supers KNOW that I am right and will uphold it if I make it happen. The reason: they become PERSONALLY LIABLE if they allow it. I have even sent subcontractors' employees from the job. I will do it again as well.

SO, what do do now? First write a COMPANY POLICY that defines zero tolerance on the job, this includes X times tardy or no show in Y days and includes any Saturday and or Sunday assignments that you made = TERMINATION. Second, inebriation on the job = instant termination. All job injuries and or property damage = drug/alcohol test. Doctor's Excuse, after 2-3 days required to return to work. MUST call in within X minutes of shift if calling sick or late. Failure to do so= TERMINATION.

Make a smoking policy. Smoking only allowed during tear out and rough in operations, once drywall up, no smoking EXCEPT AT BREAK AND LUNCH. No smoking in any company vehicle (this is state law in general across the USA). All butts POLICED at all times (that does not mean tossed into the hollow of a block wall) ( I am a smoker and follow this no issue, including field stripping to assure no fires)
Include VAPING policy. (I vape until paint, once final coat of paint is on no vaping).
Smoking does not give extra break time.

Today your legal issue is that you allowed him to work after termination. Now you have re-hired him and have not given written reprimand. This creates a legal issue for you and also a workmen's comp issue as well as unemployment insurance issue. You need to get YOUR stuff together because this is more serious than you think as far as your company.

What to do today? Sit down and WRITE HIM UP with written reprimand and warnings. Tell him in writing that he is on PROBATION and that any violation WILL result in termination. Ask him to sign the copy you have. If he will not that is OK and legal. Just note on YOUR COPY "employee refused to sign, date and time" File it. Then if he breaks the rules or warnings, TERMINATE IMMEDIATELY AND IN WRITING. DO NOT STATE A CAUSE IN WRITING, but keep a copy with date and time. Stating cause can create an entirely different legal issue. Your attorney will thank you for leaving that open and letting him deal with unemployment department later.

Anyone who declares they are an alcoholic fall under different rules and you need to consult your attorney before writing anything. Certainly IF you write something you have to include a plan that meets ADA minimums.

In the future make sure you have full written policies for all those you help through employing them. I hope this helps. Good luck.


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## Djea3 (Jul 6, 2020)

Jaws said:


> I will say the dealership I have bought last 3 of my trucks, 3 crew trucks, inlaws truck and 2 of my wifes cars from, my salesman is the top salesman in that auto group,


The next time you purchase a truck DO NOT SEE THAT SALESMAN. Instead write to 5 or 6 dealerships with the exact vehicle you want, down to instruments and paint etc, all equipment. Address the letter on company letterhead to the "fleet sales manager" BY NAME and TITLE. Ask for bids from each. They will bid.
Then go talk to that same salesman. I bet you will beat his numbers by 2-10K. I did this twice and saved 4800 the first time and a little more the second. That was on a +/-20K vehicle each time.
BTW you can also give them your credit reports with the RFQ and ask what they will do for finance after getting your bank's numbers. This way you can beat your salesman out completely and or beat him down below the fleet sales price. Remember, the fleet sales manager is tagging your purchase onto other larger companies deals!


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

TxElectrician said:


> Good to see you back Andy. How's the new gig going?
> 
> Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk


Finally wrapped up my personal projects last week.

I got delayed because I had to completely redo a small entry landing that a sub did on a job I sold for the company....looked like a 6 year old built it.. wall of shame material honestly..

Anyway, I took it easy the past couple days but full time estimator/ PM starts tomorrow. Hopefully I can knock a few sales down in the next couple weeks and get my close rating up a bit now that it has my full attention. 

It was a rough last couple months juggling it all....I finally accepted the fact that I just am not capable of putting in the hours and amount of effort that I used to be. 



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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Maybe you guys might have better luck in your trades but around here with masonry good luck finding one that is not a drinker 

It’s either somebody that doesn’t speak a lick of English or their drinkers

LOL


David


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Djea3 said:


> No smoking in any company vehicle (this is state law in general across the USA).


Say WHAT?!?


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Windycity said:


> Maybe you guys might have better luck in your trades but around here with masonry good luck finding one that is not a drinker
> 
> It’s either somebody that doesn’t speak a lick of English or their drinkers
> 
> ...


Window cleaners nationwide are the worst.

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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Window cleaners nationwide are the worst.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


I bet! 

The railroad had some window washers that came out occasionally and they definitely looked a little shady 


David


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

Djea3 said:


> First, you have a LEGAL ISSUE. If he comes to the job with alcohol in his system (i.e. hungover from a really long night) and you allow him to work that is on you altogether. Hungover means UNSAFE, unsafe means harm to property and persons. Do NOT allow it at all. ZERO TOLERANCE.
> When I say that I mean, if you know and or believe the guy is unsafe then take him for a blood test. If positive and above your state's zero threshold then terminate immediately. Tell all other employees that he is NOT allowed on any job site and to call the POLICE if he arrives.
> 
> I am not the boss on any job site and not the job super, but I have made it clear that any weed or alcohol on the job and I will oder those persons off the job site PERSONALLY. I tell the super the reason is I WANT TO GO HOME TO MY WIFE AND FAMILY UNINJURED and do not with to be a WITNESS to property damage due to inebriation. The Supers KNOW that I am right and will uphold it if I make it happen. The reason: they become PERSONALLY LIABLE if they allow it. I have even sent subcontractors' employees from the job. I will do it again as well.
> ...





reggi said:


> Well now it’s ****ing with my head so I fired him and his roommate.
> 
> Now hiring.





reggi said:


> I kept one so he can tell the tale.





reggi said:


> Tough to hear, but I appreciate your advice. Guy’s gone. It sucks to put a guy out of work when you know he’s struggling, but them’s the breaks.
> 
> Cheers.





reggi said:


> Well, he's been gone for hours now. He wasn't actually drinking on the job...
> 
> Thanks for the sage advice.





reggi said:


> Lol @ paying with a case of 10 ten high.
> 
> Fired him yesterday. Today has been nice and stress free. Ready for a whole new week.
> 
> Thanks.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

Djea3 said:


> First, you have a LEGAL ISSUE. If he comes to the job with alcohol in his system (i.e. hungover from a really long night) and you allow him to work that is on you altogether. Hungover means UNSAFE, unsafe means harm to property and persons. Do NOT allow it at all. ZERO TOLERANCE.
> When I say that I mean, if you know and or believe the guy is unsafe then take him for a blood test. If positive and above your state's zero threshold then terminate immediately. Tell all other employees that he is NOT allowed on any job site and to call the POLICE if he arrives.
> 
> I am not the boss on any job site and not the job super, but I have made it clear that any weed or alcohol on the job and I will oder those persons off the job site PERSONALLY. I tell the super the reason is I WANT TO GO HOME TO MY WIFE AND FAMILY UNINJURED and do not with to be a WITNESS to property damage due to inebriation. The Supers KNOW that I am right and will uphold it if I make it happen. The reason: they become PERSONALLY LIABLE if they allow it. I have even sent subcontractors' employees from the job. I will do it again as well.
> ...


So you're not a boss on any jobsite then proceeded to tell a bunch if boss's on jobsites what to do?

You seem like some kind of exceptionally special snowflake.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

At no point in my career would I of ever let anyone not my boss "order me off a jobsite", you'd be the one leaving if it was one of us lol, 17 year old ditch digger to home builder. I worked plenty of times hung over as a kid too, pure as driven snow by 10 am sweated that evil out. Lol


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Djea3 said:


> The next time you purchase a truck DO NOT SEE THAT SALESMAN. Instead write to 5 or 6 dealerships with the exact vehicle you want, down to instruments and paint etc, all equipment. Address the letter on company letterhead to the "fleet sales manager" BY NAME and TITLE. Ask for bids from each. They will bid.
> Then go talk to that same salesman. I bet you will beat his numbers by 2-10K. I did this twice and saved 4800 the first time and a little more the second. That was on a +/-20K vehicle each time.
> BTW you can also give them your credit reports with the RFQ and ask what they will do for finance after getting your bank's numbers. This way you can beat your salesman out completely and or beat him down below the fleet sales price. Remember, the fleet sales manager is tagging your purchase onto other larger companies deals!


Nah he's my salesman because he's got best prices. I drive two hours to get the vehicles. My wofes 2019 Limited explorer was 40k brand new, I have two 2019 F250 4x4 crew cab gasser SXTs I paid 35k for, a 2017 same model was 31k brand new,, a 2019 F250 Lariat Diesel 4x4 we paid 58k for out the door, brand new. Good luck finding better prices than that. Good luck

I did buy my personal truck in Gainesville from another dealership- I always sdo due diligence and I got a brand new f350 dual wheel 4x4 diesel SXT chrome package for 50k even, put a bed cover, ranch hand grill gaurd, Tesla screen, Katskyn leather, B& W 3 ball and goose neck hitches, Weather techs in for another 5k. 100 bucks says you couldn't beat that with a bull whip 

He is just building two 2022 trucks for me in the computer in a couple days , f350 3:73 rear end, 4x4 ultimate Lariat 6.7 10 speed tranny, midnight blue : fleet side and dual wheel. I'll post order sheets when I get them 

I dont haggle, stuck with the salesman who got that. You bring up msrp to me I'll walk out and never come back


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

When you see advertisements stating....$10,000.00 below MSRP, you know they have an awful lot of room to play with.
Even when they start talking "our invoice price"...they are still lying through their teeth to you.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Robie said:


> When you see advertisements stating....$10,000.00 below MSRP, you know they have an awful lot of room to play with.
> Even when they start talking "our invoice price"...they are still lying through their teeth to you.


Chitty industry, full of jack legs 

I can't imagine selling anything like most try to sell cars


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Jaws said:


> Chitty industry, full of jack legs
> 
> I can't imagine selling anything like most try to sell cars



Either can I.
When the business changed, I got out.
I was lucky enough though to be a part of a dealership that really did treat the customers and the staff well.
It started as a Hudson dealership back in the 30's and was passed down to the gentleman I worked for. He treated people the way he wanted to be treated.
His son took over (silver spoon syndrome) and that was the end of that.
It was all torn down and is now a CVC pharmacy.
The son is raking in $13K per month for lease money.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

I like the truck salesman I have. No games, just the price. Have turned several buyers onto him and I think most have been pleased.

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