# SMoking on the Job?



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

How do you guys handle smoking on the job? I don't smoke and I've never had a smoker as an employee, but curious what is typical or what works for smoking policy? 

Do you allow a smoker to make his own breaks as long as he gets the work done?

Do you have established breaks or numbers of breaks like 1 in the morning, 1 in the afternoon?

Just let em smoke at lunch?

There are no smoker protections that I am aware of are there?


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

I'll post next week how XXXXX(large national company) deals with smoking in a client's home. My mother had them replace a furnace and she found ashed in her sinks. I think the smoking concerned her more than the water leaks all over the house and the basement flooding. Some big guy with their install department has to deal with her on Monday.

We do not currently have any subs that smoke and I would never hire an employee that smokes. It seems that some smokers are either smoking, thinking about smoking or suffering from the side affects of smoking.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

*Is this really an issue?*

A persons choice to be a smoker shouldn't have any effect on your choice to hire them. I am a smoker and both of my employees smoke. When dealing with this issue on a job site the rules are simple. DO NOT SMOKE in the customers house or business, don't smoke in the customers face, make sure your butts are extenquished, police all butts off of ground at finish of each days work and double check at end of job to be sure you removed all butts from the property at the end of the job.

The military uses this same technique. Although they take it to extreme and have you douse butt on your boot bottom then stow it in your pocket.


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## gt4674b (Jan 15, 2007)

Haven't implemented a policy yet, but we are considering a policy to prohibit all smoking during work hours. Of course, will have to check with the lawyer first. As far as I am concerned, I do not want any of my guys going into a customer's home smelling of cigarette smoke. We are being invited into someone else's personal space and should make no assumptions as to how they wish that space to be treated. Sure, some won't care but some will and I am not in the business of offending my customers, so why take the chance? 
If you have to have a nic fix, get the patch, start to dip, eat a tobacco leaf, I don't care...I don't think it is too much to ask to not smell like an ashtray when asking people to part ways with their hard earned money.

PS This is the opinion of an *EX*-smoker.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I thought it would be a given not to smoke in somebodies house.

What I'm asking is the time management aspect of it. (Smoking breaks)



> Do you allow a smoker to make his own breaks as long as he gets the work done?
> 
> Do you have established breaks or numbers of breaks like 1 in the morning, 1 in the afternoon?
> 
> ...


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

wizendwizard said:


> make sure your butts are extenquished, police all butts off of ground at finish of each days work and double check at end of job to be sure you removed all butts from the property at the end of the job.
> 
> .


Who pays for the time that it takes for these tasks? Hopefully not you or the homeowner. Might I suggest Skoal Bandits, they come in several flavors and they promote that you do not have to spit.

(Some sort of disclaimer that neither the author nor his company promotes the use of any harmful products that are known to cause cancer. Blah blah blah more legal stuff)


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## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

Non-smokers should be given an extra 2 hours for not wasting the company time and stinking up the place. I've seen foremen smoking off-site in the middle of the day and what kind of example is that? 

I was thinking of running my next ad with a "non-smoking shop" bit. Like, _"Plumber needed for somewhat busy, NON-SMOKING shop. NON-SMOKING shop offers paychecks that don't bounce, greedy NON-SMOKING owner, rich NON-SMOKING customers."_


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

Well, for that matter. Any business with employees must allow for 1 15 minute break in first 4 hours of an 8 hours shift, 1 30 minute lunch break in an 8 hours shift, and 1 15 minute break in the last 4 hours of an 8 hour shift.

As far as i know there are no smoker protection laws in enforcement anywhere.

I allow my employees to do what they need to do, within reason , as long as production stays on time and correctly done.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Smoke on my job and you will get a break, fg forever.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

wizendwizard said:


> Well, for that matter. Any business with employees must allow for 1 15 minute break in first 4 hours of an 8 hours shift, 1 30 minute lunch break in an 8 hours shift, and 1 15 minute break in the last 4 hours of an 8 hour shift.
> 
> As far as i know there are no smoker protection laws in enforcement anywhere.
> 
> I allow my employees to do what they need to do, within reason , as long as production stays on time and correctly done.


Exactly. Colorados aren't 15, they are 2 (10's) plus a 30 for lunch, but mandated as you have said. In the past we have seemed to skip those 10 minute breaks and just added them onto a longer lunch.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

Mike, just think of it this way. On one hand you have a great employee that smokes but gets very frustrated because he hasn't had a fix in 4 hours.

Do you take the risk of losing the employee just because he isn't allowed a smoke break every-so-often or do you allow him a short break?

I have never lost time on a job because an employee or myself had a 5 minute break to grab a smoke. And believe me, it only takes 5 minutes to smoke a butt.

Heck, my guys waste more time trying to find a dang tool then they do having a smoke. They are much less frustrated and able to focus on what they are doing if they aren't thinking, "Damn butthead boss won't let me have a smoke."

I appologize to all of the nonsmoking control freaks here that want to tell me what i can and can't do with my own body.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

Putty Truck said:


> I was thinking of running my next ad with a "non-smoking shop" bit. Like, _"Plumber needed for somewhat busy, NON-SMOKING shop. NON-SMOKING shop offers paychecks that don't bounce, greedy NON-SMOKING owner, rich NON-SMOKING customers."_


 
Is that sarcasm, or what???????? LOL :jester:


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

wizendwizard said:


> I appologize to all of the nonsmoking control freaks here that want to tell me what i can and can't do with my own body.


Hate to burst your bubble, but we don't give a flying f**k what you do *to* yourselves....we just care what you do *with* our time. Maybe it does take only 5 minutes to smoke a butt, but how many do you smoke during the course of a work day, a week, a year. It adds up.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

I dont let them smoke in a customers home, but they can smoke out on the scaffolding whenever they want. Most guys can lay brick and keep a smoke in their mouth without skippin a beat.

I however, dont smoke. Quit 9 years ago and it was the best thing I ever did.


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## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

Its just me and another guy at the moment,but in the summer when we had more guys they could smoke only if they went into the trailer or their vehicles. The only time you could smoke in front of the home owner is if we were sitting down with them after work hours and having a few beers or whatever and they smoked or said it was ok to smoke.

When we talked to our lawyer we couldn't not hire someone that smoked just becaused they smoked or stop them from smoking on their breaks. They said if we did we were opening our selves for lawsuits even though their are no smokers protection laws in effect there were other areas they could come after us in.

Personally I smoke,but during work I use the bandits or if I do have a smoke I go to the trailer or my vehicle. And then when I'm done I field strip it and put the butt in my pocket(which really pisses the wife off when she washes my work clothes and finds them in the washer).


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Mike - maybe this will address your OP


figure a cigarette takes 5 minutes to smoke - 

figure an actual smoke break can turn into 15 minutes pretty easily (especially when there's two guys talking)

most smokers probably have one every hour.... in an 8 hour day ... it wouldn't be hard to LOSE one man hour for every time they stop and smoke.

Now ... they're already losing an hour just by lunch.

Think about it - TWO hours down the drain.

Oh - plus that "morning break" around 10 AM

A typical workday (9-5) is really not that long.



I don't mind someone smoking at all if they can keep working. It's the "stop and stand" that I don't like and won't tolerate.

I myself smoke. Yes, it does cut down my own productivity. But a lot of what I do (manual labor-wise) is "get in/get out" - so there's plenty of down time (i.e. going from one job to the next)


All flames extinguished when clients come within 20 feet - doesn't matter if only took one drag..... 


I'd make someone eat the cigarette if they smoked in a clients home. How rude, disrespectful and ignorant


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> I thought it would be a given not to smoke in somebodies house.


I smoke.


It IS a given you do NOT smoke in a customer's home...if it's an existing comm./retail project, you follow the rules set in place (in NJ, no smoking).

New work...we try not to burn the place down.

One job I did, the GC asked that we not smoke in the house...it was a total gut job SFH remodel...No problem. My guys will usually follow my lead - if I'm going out for a smoke...so are they....and I have no argument. 
Some of the guys know "code"...when I saw "Hey Joe, go check if the meter is spinning"...he knows it's a smoke break. 

None of my guys have ever asked if they can go for a smoke...probably because I smoke - probably too much.

If the job is new...you smoke whenever....unless there is a clause in the contract forbidding it.





Mike Finley said:


> What I'm asking is the time management aspect of it. (Smoking breaks)


It takes 5 minutes to have a smoke.
Of course, you must work a lot more in a given hour than smoke.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

Smokers stink!!!

I don't appreciate the smell when they go to the same supermarket as I do. I have nothing to say about it since it is their right to do as they chose.

You can even tell by the smell when a person's spouse smokes. The more non-smoking laws there are, the more obvious a smoker is.

That is their problem, not mine.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Are you all telling me that you would pay a laboror an extra bonus not to smoke and then you would critisize and punish an experienced carpenter??
I cant figure this bull! What the hell is the difference? My men smoke, BUT NEVER in the coustomers home, nor on the property. Always in my vehichle only. further more thats what the hell is wrong in this so called USA. EVERYONE thinks everyone else has to be a carbon copy of everyone else. Come on people, if thats the case why dont we all move to another country where eveyone has to be the same because thats what the government wants. We are supposed to live in the USA, makes me wonder some time. I dont care if my men get **** faced drunk, smoke pot or whatever (On their own time) as long as they can do what they are getting paid to do. It dont take that long to light up, and for that matter it only takes about 15 seconds to light up. If you do the math and they smoke one cig an hour then thats 2 minutes per day, 10 minutes per week. Come on, if your carpenter or laborer is not worth that little bit then you should had let him go from the get go. The things I hear on this is exactly why I do not work for anyone. I am not a robot. Sheesh. I never ask my men to do anything I would not do myself. Sorry everyone, but I pretty much leave my crew alone, god, they take breaks most part of the day, but I'll never trade them for the world. I let them do their thing and youd be amazed at how much they get done. They blow all my estimated times away, always finishing in 2/3 the alloted times (Even the ones based on the national estimator). So if you can not let them smoke while they work (Dont stop, keep going) then bottom line, you dont need them


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

All the surrounding municipalities here have no smoking by-laws that prohibit smoking in a work area. This can actually be extended to a company work van, or a construction site.

I know a lot of new home buyers have actually complained to their builders about trades smoking in their houses during construction, and one builder actually started posting no smoking signs.

I just wish they would do it on mine.. A number of houses I am working on right now the paint is going up.. and a lot of the guys are smoking. It's gross.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

abp said:


> Are you all telling me that you would pay a laboror an extra bonus not to smoke and then you would critisize and punish an experienced carpenter??
> I cant figure this bull! What the hell is the difference? My men smoke, BUT NEVER in the coustomers home, nor on the property. Always in my vehichle only. further more thats what the hell is wrong in this so called USA. EVERYONE thinks everyone else has to be a carbon copy of everyone else. Come on people, if thats the case why dont we all move to another country where eveyone has to be the same because thats what the government wants. We are supposed to live in the USA, makes me wonder some time. I dont care if my men get **** faced drunk, smoke pot or whatever (On their own time) as long as they can do what they are getting paid to do. It dont take that long to light up, and for that matter it only takes about 15 seconds to light up. If you do the math and they smoke one cig an hour then thats 2 minutes per day, 10 minutes per week. Come on, if your carpenter or laborer is not worth that little bit then you should had let him go from the get go. The things I hear on this is exactly why I do not work for anyone. I am not a robot. Sheesh. I never ask my men to do anything I would not do myself. Sorry everyone, but I pretty much leave my crew alone, god, they take breaks most part of the day, but I'll never trade them for the world. I let them do their thing and youd be amazed at how much they get done. They blow all my estimated times away, always finishing in 2/3 the alloted times (Even the ones based on the national estimator). So if you can not let them smoke while they work (Dont stop, keep going) then bottom line, you dont need them


I'm not on either side of this argument. But what always strikes me when I read replys like yours is that you're really as big a Nazi as the anti smoking Nazi.

You're hitting it right on the head when you say:


> The things I hear on this is exactly why I do not work for anyone. I am not a robot. Sheesh.


Which is the point. You're free to run your company as you wish, just as anybody else is allowed to run theirs as they see fit. We aren't all robots or carbon copies, you're exactly right. Every company has a company culture. It might not be a fit for everybody. You're companies culture is your companies culture. It's not wrong nor right, just like anybody else's isn't either.

So don't be a smoking Nazi. That's as bad as those that you rant against. Can you see the irony of ranting against somebody else's forced policies when you have forced policies of your own?

Now, smoke em if you got em.


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## Big Bob (May 30, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Exactly. Colorados aren't 15, they are 2 (10's) plus a 30 for lunch, but mandated as you have said. In the past we have seemed to skip those 10 minute breaks and just added them onto a longer lunch.


Sure glad this is in the past as WC carrier will burn you for non enforement of required breaks..... You will get to pay for it all..


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Any smoker that thinks they are entitled to go have, 2, 3, 5, or 10, 5 minute smoke breaks are a dumb as they are for smoking in the first place. Smoking is not part of your job requirement and is not a skill and you are not entitled to get paid for it. If you work for me and you are a smoker and I find one butt on the ground or you walk away and take a 5 minute smoke break, you gone.

You can smoke 20 packs for all I care on your coffee and lunch break. Anyone who tries to argue with me over that must have to much smoke in their brain. There are plenty of people who want to work. If your a smoker and you get a job and your boss doesn't let you have 5 or 10 minute smoke breaks and you're willing to loose your job over it because for some insane reason you think you're entitled to get paid for smoking, then you are simply an idiot.

I have nothing against a smoker as a person, I do however have something against them when they think they're entitled to take breaks and get paid for it. Forget about all the dirtbag smokers who throw the butts on the ground, in the street, dump their ashtrays in parking lots as if that's alright also. Last addition I framed, the plumbers through their butts on the new addition deck after the existing walls were taken down and the whole house was wide open. Brilliant!!!


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Is smoking any different than frequent bathroom "breaks"?


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> Is smoking any different than frequent bathroom "breaks"?


Yes, everyone has to go to the bathroom, you have no choice. You don't have to smoke, you choose too. No excuse


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## Forry (Feb 12, 2007)

Huh... I've got one guy, a quality experienced lead carpenter who smokes. He's seems to have an appropriate sense of whats ok and whats not... If he's outside, he's not shy about a few puffs while running a saw, or unloading some tools or what not. Not a problem for me. Another guy, wants to be just like the lead does about the same thing, but you can tell he's more interested in the cig, not the work. Somehow one's ok and the others not. I smoke, but I'm shy about it. I walk around the corner or something and get embarrassed about it if a client catches me, so I tend to be a little more discreet. Gonna can the young guy soon I suppose. Nice kid but his priorities are all screwed up...


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## odleo (Nov 9, 2006)

I am a smoker, I take two breaks and a lunch. Sometimes I smoke but most time I do not. If I am going between jobs. I will have a smoke or two. Usually I work alone, but have had help on some jobs. They all known there is no smoking on the job site. If they must have a smoke they can go to their car. I also let them know if they are not on their lunch or break I am not going to pay them for the time they are smoking.


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

We are all entitled to our own vices; cigarettes are just the legal form of heroin. It is not the fact that it makes your home and car smell like crap or maybe even be the cause of an occasion ditch or mattress fire. It impacts our heath care to a degree that millions of dollars are going into research for lung and respiratory problems. I think giving someone the time to enable their addiction of smoking would be equivalent to killing a beer or two before noon…:laughing:not going to happen. And like all addicts, they will find a way to get the fix when they need it, and if it is on my dime, so be it, but spend to much of my money for me and job security will be a thing of the past…


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## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> I thought it would be a given not to smoke in somebodies house.
> 
> Well, one would think that is just common sense, but I can tell you from experience that it isn't so.  And it is always the same guys, from the same subs on every job.
> 
> ...


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## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

I have one rule --SMOKE AND TAKE PRIVATE PHONE CALLS ON YOUR TIME NOT MINE.:thumbsup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

PARA1 said:


> I have one rule --SMOKE AND TAKE PRIVATE PHONE CALLS ON YOUR TIME NOT MINE.:thumbsup:



Someone dropping a deuce of "your time" must really piss you off :laughing:










Is that a bagel in your pants or are you just happy to see me?


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

"I've been thinking about this, Mr. Hand.....If I'm here, and you're here, doesn't that make it OUR time?


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## Mr. Green Genes (Nov 22, 2007)

dougchips said:


> We do not currently have any subs that smoke and I would never hire an employee that smokes. It seems that some smokers are either smoking, thinking about smoking or suffering from the side affects of smoking.


I think he's asking about tobacco.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

wizendwizard said:


> A persons choice to be a smoker shouldn't have any effect on your choice to hire them. I am a smoker and both of my employees smoke. When dealing with this issue on a job site the rules are simple. DO NOT SMOKE in the customers house or business, don't smoke in the customers face, make sure your butts are extenquished, police all butts off of ground at finish of each days work and double check at end of job to be sure you removed all butts from the property at the end of the job.
> 
> The military uses this same technique. Although they take it to extreme and have you douse butt on your boot bottom then stow it in your pocket.


I was in the service ,early 80's, and my pockets are full of butts.:laughing: 30 year habit for me,unfortunately.With my employees,when I use help, I consider it a lack of character if they don't work extra hard/catch-up after taking a smoke break other than the required break times.And I pretty much agree with wizards statement.Myself,I chew nicotine gum if I can't smoke when I have the urge.Just my 2 cents.


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## Hamburgjl (Nov 21, 2007)

Try to set aside the emotion for a minute and look at the business end. . A pack a day smoker spends about half his awake hours on the job, thats 10 smokes. A smoke break is more than 5 minutes, lets say 6. ( come on though, by the time you take off the tool belt, go outside, smoke, get back, and gear up to pick up where you left off, its at least 10 minutes.) 60 minutes per day in "unproductive" time. OK, 3 smokes are breaks and lunch. That leaves 7 smokes per day on the job, or about 45 minutes. 200 working days per year equals 150 man-hours. If the burdened cost of labor is $30 for a skilled carpenter, thats $4,500. a year in non-billable time, vs. a non-smoker. Those are the facts. Thats why the non-smoking business owner is asking himself and us the question, there's a lot of money at stake. 

Plus, what example does it set for the non-smokers on the crew? It either makes for bad feelings or the productivity of the whole crew is being dragged down.

Just doing the math, we should be asking the smoker for an extra 45 minutes of unpaid labor per day to make up for it. 

In all honesty, I am "another former smoker"


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I smoke and a few of the guys do as well, we work outdoors, I don't care if a guy is smoking while he's working, but if I see a guy standing there jaw jacking, cigarette or not, he get's the rest of the day off without pay, after three times he's got no more job. Depending on the size of the foundation we have a few 5 gallon buckets around for butts and garbage, don't leave a mess on the site. Once the roof is on, no smoking inside the structure.

On a side note, I heard rumor the other day that on some commercial site in my area they installed a 'smoking area' where the guys went on there break and lunch to indulge in the habit, kinda reminds me of high school.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Hamburgjl said:


> ....a year in non-billable time, vs. a non-smoker.


???
How did the hours become "non-billable"?

On a T&M job, every second not turning a screw is unpaid?


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

Nicotine is a powerful stimulant. Any time smokers take smoking is more than offset by the fact that they are more productive under the influence of nicotine. 








​


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

L. B. Condulet said:


> Nicotine is a powerful stimulant. Any time smokers take smoking is more than offset by the fact that they are more productive under the influence of nicotine.


 I agree with you most of the time, but this one is a stretch. Show me the scientific study that proves this. 

By the same logic, should I be looking to hire a bunch of tweekers so I could really kick ass?


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## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

I can see getting angry if they are taking time to smoke if its not during a break(unless they can keep working and do it),but if they are on break you have no control over what they do atleast here in ohio. Trust me I know first hand. One of the guys I started out painting for fired a guy for smoking out in his car on a break. Well needless to say they guy sued for wrongful termination and ended up pretty much owning the company after that.


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

Camarodude, down here in California, we're an "at will" state, don't need a reason to fire somebody. I once had a tweaker on the crew, he would just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and on the second day I couldn't take it anymore.


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## T.GUTIERREZ (Nov 22, 2007)

Just Get A Job Clock&have Him Clockout And In For Smoke Breaks As We All Do For Lunch Cause It Can Add Up At The End Of The Year.just Ask The Job Clock Company.


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## C.C.R. (May 19, 2006)

*Smokers Suc/*

I would never hire a smoker. From when I was working for another company, they think they have the right to take a smoke break whenever they want. They smell, they smell up the work trucks, they smell up the HO house. why hire them? Chew is a differant story, I find it less offensive, (I don't chew or smoke) but as long as they keep track of their bottle and a cap on it, I see nothing wrong with chew. But smoking,? You can't get away from it. FXCK THE SMOKER, they have NO rights, on my jobs!!


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> How do you guys handle smoking on the job? I don't smoke and I've never had a smoker as an employee, but curious what is typical or what works for smoking policy?
> 
> Do you allow a smoker to make his own breaks as long as he gets the work done?
> 
> ...


i dont hire smokers.


but I have had a few in the past work for me, they usually start the morning with a fresh new pack of smokes, at the end of the day look how many they have smoke, and deduct 10 min for each one that is gone, lol


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## Hamburgjl (Nov 21, 2007)

Celtic said:


> ???
> How did the hours become "non-billable"?
> 
> On a T&M job, every second not turning a screw is unpaid?


"Unproductive" would have been a better choice. That does raise the question though, who is the better value for their customer, the non-smoker or the one who charges for 45 minutes a day of time spent not working?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Hamburgjl said:


> "Unproductive" would have been a better choice. That does raise the question though, who is the better value for their customer, the non-smoker or the one who charges for 45 minutes a day of time spent not working?


The better value is the person who produces the most in a given time frame - smoker or not.


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## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

> Camarodude, down here in California, we're an "at will" state, don't need a reason to fire somebody. I once had a tweaker on the crew, he would just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and on the second day I couldn't take it anymore.


Thats why I said here in ohio. Here bout the only reason you can fire someone is if they are stealing from you. I know a guy that fired a guy for not showing up to work on time. He fired him and got sued and lost for wrongful termination. Like I said here bout the only time you can fire anyone is if they are stealing from you and even then who knows what could happen.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

fftopic:



camaroman2125 said:


> The #1 guideline to success is you must be in business for yourself. When you work for someone else, you sell your time at wholesale to your employer, who then re-sells it at retail to the customer-----J. Paul Getty


(Sorry for the angry face....the happy ones were sold out)


That is a helluva quote :thumbup:


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> The better value is the person who produces the most in a given time frame - smoker or not.


Let's say that you're a smoker and you inconsiderately take 45 minutes a day for smoke breaks not including coffee and lunch. Now the guy next to you doesn't smoke and takes no breaks. You produce the same amount as the guy next to you. That means that you're beating your boss for 45 minutes a day of non performed work and your boss is stupid enough to pay you for that because you can produce a lot more without wasting 45 minutes of smoke breaks that you're not entitled too.

Do you think smokers are entitled to smoke breaks and get paid for it? It''s a yes or no answer, not what you can produce compared to the guy next to you. He might not be as experienced as you or you're getting paid more anyway. Even if you have the same amount of experience and getting paid the same, if you're taking 45 minutes of smoke breaks and producing the same as the guy next to you, then you're boss should fire the other guy or stop your smoke breaks and pay you more money.

No matter what way you look at it, you're beating your boss for the time you take for smoke breaks instead of putting the time to produce. It's just plain common sense. How can anyone argue that?

One more thing, my old boss smoked and my friends father smoked and they did not stop for one second to have a break, they kept working and cutting rafters and walking up ladders with the cigarette in their mouths, but never walked away and took off their pouches like a bunch of idiots to go smoke.

These guys are in their own business and know that time is money. The don't have the mentality like an employee does that thinks he can just walk away and get paid for smoke breaks. they don';t know what it's like to run a buisness and watch their employees waste time and cost them money.

This whole issue is ridiculous and many arguments start over this. he people who start the arguments are the smokers who try to defend smoking and also the non smokers who say that all smokers are guilty. I'm not saying all smokers are guilty, it's the ones who have no regard to taking smoke breaks and think they should get paid for it and also the dirtbags that throw there butts all over the place and throw them out the window of their car.

Anyway you look at smoking, it's disgusting, rued and smells and is bad for you and you have no argument and can't give one reason to justify smoking.


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## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

send_it_all said:


> I agree with you most of the time, but this one is a stretch. Show me the scientific study that proves this.
> 
> By the same logic, should I be looking to hire a bunch of tweekers so I could really kick ass?


What is a TWEEKER? Is that someone on speed or someone who is trying to quit smoking?:evil::evil: :laughing: *GO COWBOYS!:thumbsup: HAPPY TURKEYDAY*


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Joe Carola said:


> Let's say that you're a smoker and you inconsiderately take 45 minutes a day for smoke breaks not including coffee and lunch. Now the guy next to you doesn't smoke and takes no breaks. You produce the same amount as the guy next to you. That means that you're beating your boss for 45 minutes a day of non performed work and your boss is stupid enough to pay you for that because you can produce a lot more without wasting 45 minutes of smoke breaks that you're not entitled too.


What that means is the other should get canned for being a slacker.
The boss is stoopid enough to hang onto a non-smoking load because he smells good.
The OTHER guy is beating the boss for 45 minutes...not the smoker :thumbsup:


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> What that means is the other should get canned for being a slacker.
> The boss is stoopid enough to hang onto a non-smoking load because he smells good.
> The OTHER guy is beating the boss for 45 minutes...not the smoker :thumbsup:


I'll make it simple for you. Do you think a smoker who takes 45 minutes a day for a smoke break instead of working should get paid for it, yes, or no?

Do you think that taking 45 minutes a day for smoke breaks is taking away from 45 minutes of producing work?.............wait a minute, that's just common sense now isn't it!


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## Flacan (Aug 28, 2007)

We had a guy on the job this week (advisor from Europe, who helped with setting up a large building that didn't come with any drawings) who 
lit **** all day long. He also worked harder than just about anybody else. 

I don't smoke, but I've seen 2 types of smokers: workers and slackers. 

I think each case should be considered by itself - we are talking about people, not about a different species.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Flacan said:


> We had a guy on the job this week (advisor from Europe, who helped with setting up a large building that didn't come with any drawings) who
> lit **** all day long. He also worked harder than just about anybody else.
> 
> I don't smoke, but I've seen 2 types of smokers: workers and slackers.
> ...


Did the guy take his pouch off and stop working and walk away for 5-10 minutes every time he smoked?

I've never once had a guy stop working and walk away to smoke. That would never happen. All I would have to do is ask for help doing something and the guy is 50' away smoking. That would be the end.

Every worker is not the same and don't have the same pace. You can have a guy that can produce walls faster than the guy next to him, but the guy next to him lays the walls out and marks everything on the house and lays out rafters. The guy who frames the walls can't layout or knows how to lay out a rafter. The guy who's laying out the rafters and laying out the plates is producing in ways the other guy can't.

The guy who can produce fast gets special privileges and is allowed to take 45 minute breaks? Makes no sense. The 45 minutes should go into producing work. This smoker might be a machine and no one can keep up with him, so therefore Celtic would have to fire his whole crew.

Celtic is a perfect example of a smoker who defends this. So I guess in his mind smoking is an acceptable part of a job requirement and must be some kind of skill and not be questioned. Anyone who pays smokers 45 minutes or 10 minutes a day to smoke is an idiot in my mind.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Joe Carola said:


> I'll make it simple for you. Do you think a smoker who takes 45 minutes a day for a smoke break instead of working should get paid for it, yes, or no?
> 
> Do you think that taking 45 minutes a day for smoke breaks is taking away from 45 minutes of producing work?.............wait a minute, that's just common sense now isn't it!


How about the guy that drops 3 deuces a day?


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> How about the guy that drops 3 deuces a day?


Can you explain that?

I'll ask you this again, can you answer it, or are you going to avoid the question again?

I'll make it simple for you. Do you think a smoker who takes 45 minutes a day for a smoke break instead of working should get paid for it, yes, or no?


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

Celtic said:


> How about the guy that drops 3 deuces a day?


 
By choice?


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

Celtic said:


> How about the guy that drops 3 deuces a day?


His name is Andy, and he works for me. It drives me up a f'n wall. And for the record I think I am way within my right to say "NO you cannot drop deuces in the customers toilet" 

It DRIVES ME CRAZY sometimes even 4 times a day. Is there not something wrong with this? I mean I know litterally **** happens, but this many times a day every day.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

Patrick said:


> His name is Andy, and he works for me. It drives me up a f'n wall. And for the record I think I am way within my right to say "NO you cannot drop deuces in the customers toilet"
> 
> It DRIVES ME CRAZY sometimes even 4 times a day. Is there not something wrong with this? I mean I know litterally **** happens, but this many times a day every day.


 
does Andy work in mountain lakes NJ? cause every single job up there i see a porta john. dunno if its a town requirement or not. If Andy is in a porta john hes only making sure your getting your moneys worth in the rental,


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Joe Carola said:


> Did the guy take his pouch off and stop working and walk away for 5-10 minutes every time he smoked?
> 
> I've never once had a guy stop working and walk away to smoke. That would never happen. All I would have to do is ask for help doing something and the guy is 50' away smoking. That would be the end.
> 
> ...


Back down Joe... 

You are also ASSUMING your perfect little non-smoker has:
- no family issues...a divorce will muddle the mind longer than 45 minutes
- no financial difficulties...a guy having HIS house foreclosed on gives a rat's ass about the house he's building for someone else
- no legal issues....the DUI case will eventually come to fruition
- etc etc etc 
..and blah blah blah.


This is the real world...next you'll want to bag guys for farting too frequently and stinking up the place :laughing:


Just in case you couldn't see the beginning of this thread from your soap box:



Celtic said:


> I smoke.
> 
> It IS a given you do NOT smoke in a customer's home...if it's an existing comm./retail project, you follow the rules set in place (in NJ, no smoking).
> 
> ...


That'd be: post #*17*

Before you fall off that soap box....read the laws:


> *Employment discrimination*
> An employer shall not refuse to hire, discharge, or take any adverse action against an employee because that employee does or does not smoke or use tobacco products, unless the employer has a rational basis for such actions which is reasonably related to the employment. Note: the Senate Labor, Industry, and Professions Committee statement specifies, "It is not the intent of the Legislature that the provisions of this bill have any impact on the terms and conditions of employer sponsored health or life insurance plans, including the right of such plans to differentiate between smokers and nonsmokers with regard to the amount of any employee contributions or copayments." NJSA 34:6B-1 through 2.
> Maximum fines: (1) $2,000 for first offense, $5,000 for each subsequent violation; collectible by the New Jersey Commissioner of Labor and enforced by the Commissioner of Labor in a summary proceeding. NJSA 34:6B-4. (2) An employee or prospective employee may file a complaint within one year from the date of the alleged violation in a court of competent jurisdiction and may be awarded an injunction, compensatory and consequential damages, or reasonable attorneys' fees and court costs. NJSA 34:6B-3.


http://www.njgasp.org/d2b_det.htm
Your man 50' away could nail your balls to a cross for firing him.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> How about the guy that drops 3 deuces a day?


Does that mean going to the bathroom? Are you for real?



> :
> Originally Posted by Celtic View Post
> Is smoking any different than frequent bathroom "breaks"?


Yes, everyone has to go to the bathroom, you have no choice. You don't have to smoke, you choose too. No excuse

That was your first post to me about going to the bathroom. How can you seriously compare going to the bathroom to smoke breaks? You really can't be serious!!!

Did you know that every human has to go to the bathroom and it's not by choice????

Did you also know that smoking is not a bodily function, and it's something you do by choice????

I've read some crazy excuses and comparisons from smokers about trying to justify smoking, but comparing bathroom breaks to cigarette breaks is the most insane and irrational one of them all.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Joe Carola said:


> Can you explain that?
> 
> I'll ask you this again, can you answer it, or are you going to avoid the question again?


It's taking a dump, dropping the kids off at the pool, a CRAP!
WTF?



Joe Carola said:


> I'll make it simple for you. Do you think a smoker who takes 45 minutes a day for a smoke break instead of working should get paid for it, yes, or no?


I'll make it simple for YOU...read #17 again...and again...how ever many times it takes until you can comprehend the words written.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Patrick said:


> ... I think I am way within my right to say "NO you cannot drop deuces in the customers toilet"


You can't drop a deuce in someone else's porcelain! :laughing:
(I agree with you)


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> Back down Joe...
> 
> You are also ASSUMING your perfect little non-smoker has:
> - no family issues...a divorce will muddle the mind longer than 45 minutes
> ...


All, nonsense. I'm talking about people who stop working and take 10 minute cigarette breaks 5-6 times a day, not everyones personal life or family issues. So are you trying to say people who take these smoke breaks are smoking because of personal life/tragedies and family issues? That's nonsense. That's how you justify smoking?

You reached real far on that one. So tragic things that happen to people cause them to smoke? Nonsense. If that was the case I'd be smoking 5 packs a day. Lost my father and sister, I never smoked once in my life.



> This is the real world...next you'll want to bag guys for farting too frequently and stinking up the place


Again, I'll say it slowly, these are bodily functions and every human has them, they are not by choice. Smoking is a choice. Someone who wants to fart next to me on purpose and has no class, that's his choice, he can go out if the room to do that, but it's a bodily function and has to be done. If my 96 year old grandmother did it by accident, it's not a problem, it's still; a bodily function.

I sympathize with anyone who has tragedy in their lives and would do anything to help them, but that's not the case for all smokers. Maybe the one who had a tragic even happen to them start smoking but that's not what we're talking about.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Joe Carola said:


> Originally Posted by Celtic View Post
> Is smoking any different than frequent bathroom "breaks"?


If you're going to quote me...quote me...don't add your own op/ed to bolster your opinion.

I asked a question...I did not exercise my question as an opinion.
You, sir, exercised that option.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

Most points being made, is just about how it is.

I smoke, I smoke when I want. And it is a bit different for me. I plan on my smoke breaks. I DO NOT sit on my duff and light up. I'm either cleaning a bunch of fittings, or SOMETHING that needed to be done, that allows me to go to the truck and enjoy my death stick while not missing a beat. THe guys I work with don't smoke but I have worked with guys that think it is their God given right, that once an hour they get a smoke break. Bags off, few sips of a drink and than it's 5 minutes of bliss for them. I won't stand for that crap. Even on this repipe I just finished, I think I smoked 4 or 5 smokes the entire time I was there. THere were home owners home....with their kids...and I had ALOT of work to complete. How bad would it look if I was lighting up all day on their property? I find that rude and unprofessional. My habit should not infringe on someone elses space. I had no problem going a house down...either on the phone or making my daily goals list. ANd I gotta say, I did feel a little better having only smoked a handful come quiting time. 

As far as this bathroom vs. smoking breaks, I think if someone needs to take a crap more than twice on a job, they got issues. However just imagining an employer barking at one of his guys for crapping too much is just grounds for a lawsuit. A suit that employer would probably lose his azz in!!
However canning a guy for smoking too much or taking too much time to smoke is totally an accecptable reason to fire him. It doesn't matter if he is smoking, on the phone, running errands, going to meet a friend with benefits (I used to do that!!) or smoking. If your getting paid cash for the work, do the work. It really is common sense to me. Just you guys wait, till our CA anti smoking laws come your your towns. Newest one? No smoking in public beaches and parks. Sidewalks in Santa Monica are also off limits.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> It's taking a dump, dropping the kids off at the pool, a CRAP!
> WTF?


WTF?? Never heard of dropping a deuce before. Must be soemthing you made up. So, am I d!ck for not knowing?





> I'll make it simple for YOU...read #17 again...and again...how ever many times it takes until you can comprehend the words written.


I don't have to read post #17. It's all your other posts after that that I'm talking about.



> Is smoking any different than frequent bathroom "breaks"?





> How about the guy that drops 3 deuces a day?





> I asked a question...I did not exercise my question as an opinion.
> You, sir, exercised that option.


You keep comparing going to the bathroom and taking deuces to smoking. I wonder where I got my opinion from. Maybe you take 3-4 deuces a day along with your cigarettes as your sitting on the bowl and enjoying a nice smoke, who knows it sounds like fun for you.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

Celtic said:


> Quote:
> Employment discrimination
> An employer shall not refuse to hire, discharge, or take any adverse action against an employee because that employee does or does not smoke or use tobacco products, unless the employer has a rational basis for such actions which is reasonably related to the employment. Note: the Senate Labor, Industry, and Professions Committee statement specifies, "It is not the intent of the Legislature that the provisions of this bill have any impact on the terms and conditions of employer sponsored health or life insurance plans, including the right of such plans to differentiate between smokers and nonsmokers with regard to the amount of any employee contributions or copayments." NJSA 34:6B-1 through 2.
> Maximum fines: (1) $2,000 for first offense, $5,000 for each subsequent violation; collectible by the New Jersey Commissioner of Labor and enforced by the Commissioner of Labor in a summary proceeding. NJSA 34:6B-4. (2) An employee or prospective employee may file a complaint within one year from the date of the alleged violation in a court of competent jurisdiction and may be awarded an injunction, compensatory and consequential damages, or reasonable attorneys' fees and court costs. NJSA 34:6B-3.
> ...


Celtic,

Where does is say that I can't fire a guy if he walks 50' away from the job and stops working for 10 minutes and has a cigarette? Where does is say that? Where does it say that I have to allow an employee and pay an employee for cigarette breaks? I'm talking about cigarette breaks, not coffee and lunch.

Where did I ever say that I would never hire a smoker also? I never said that. I can however fire anyone in the state of NJ that I live in if they stop working on my time and smoke a cigarette.



> An employer shall not refuse to hire, discharge, or take any adverse action against an employee because that employee does or does not smoke or use tobacco products, *unless the employer has a rational basis for such actions which is reasonably related to the employment.*


Employee who stops working on my time for 5-10 minutes is a rational reason to be fired. Smoking is not part of the job and taking time off from the job to smoke is not acceptable. There are no laws that say that an employer has to let employees have smoke breaks and also get paid for them.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Celtic said:


> How about the guy that drops 3 deuces a day?


I would say that is a medical condition that should have been told to the hiring person because that's a load of crap:laughing:

When I was running my crew, I didn't care how much they produced, if they had a cigarette running, they would not be producing their value at the moment they are sitting there puffing or lighting. If you "catch up" later, then quit, work as hard as you do when you were "catching up" or harder and then get paid more. Simple economics will earn you thousands more each year.

But that's another thread. If you smoke, then there better not be any butts on the jobsite, in can, on the floor, out on the lawn, stuck down a plumbing pipe....anywhere. It's disrespectful to the people you are working for. You have your window on breaks of 10 minutes, fine...in your truck and keep it there. That also means the awful stench you emit too, so bring some deodorizer for your fingers and breath because you work around me and smell like that, whether you realize it or not, you just violated my work space with your habit.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

Maybe i can settle this..... NON-SMOKERS. Hire only nonsmoking workers and work for ONLY nonsmokers.DO NOT infringe yourself on smokers period.

Smokers hire smokers or nonsmokers. Work for ONLY smokers and those that don't mind smoking on property as long as it is stipulated that smoking is allowed in smoking areas, when not impeding production.

Some people got so angry about this little blog they forgot to mention the HO'S that smoke!!

I wonder if the smoking customers, that some of these nonsmoking jokers in here, would say to what THEY would do if a worker smoked on the job....
i wonder how long these same jokers would keep their contracts or leads if they knew of this attitude.....

I'll grant you 1 thing...... non of these nonsmokers would ever work in the home of an RJ REYNOLDS owner or employee!!!


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

wizendwizard said:


> I'll grant you 1 thing...... non of these nonsmokers would ever work in the home of an RJ REYNOLDS owner or employee!!!


That would be like asking a non-smoker to eat soup from an ashtray...:laughing:


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## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

> That is a helluva quote


Thanx celtic. I think its totally true.


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## Mitch M (Dec 4, 2006)

This is my policy which by the way I just handed out about a month ago in the new employee handbook that was blessed by my attorney.

*Smoking*

Smoking in the presence of customers is prohibited. Smoking is prohibited in all Company buildings, Company vehicles, and on job sites. Smoking must be confined to designated outdoor areas and cigarettes must be properly disposed of in ash receptacles. Of course, smoking is prohibited in all areas where paint and flammable materials are present.

I do not like smoking. I grew up around it and I swore that when I got older I would not be around it if I had any control over the situation. That being said, I have heard all of the excuses: I need to go get a tool, need to go the john, gotta have a smoke, (well you get the idea).
I had one guy that smoked that expected everyone to stop work so that he could get a cig. He does not work for me. I lost enough time with him.

As for the breaks, my understanding that NC only requires a break every 8 hours. I will try and find it. I do however, allow a 10 minute break in the morning and afternoon and 1 hour lunch. They get paid for the breaks.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

*Smoker Nazi's*

Guy's...i think these non-smokers are so frustrated they might bust over this subject!!

Mike was simply asking for a middle ground guideline on how we handle smoking on the job.

These people that are focusing on the dime for dime waste of labor time is ridiculous!! I bet their poor employees don't even get a turkey or ham gift certificate at the holiday's!! I also bet they expect that sweet bonus at end of job, but wonder how many of them pass that bonus on to the employees.
I am willing to wager that they won't even admit that the guys deserve the whole amount of the bonus, since they did the majority of the work.
I am reminded of a famous line from Charles Dickens "A Christmas Carol." " And be here all the earlier the day after!"

Do you find that smokers are a lot nicer, more focused, and less stressed than non-smokers?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Joe Carola said:


> WTF?? Never heard of dropping a deuce before. Must be soemthing you made up. So, am I d!ck for not knowing?


If I called you a dick..that would merely be my opinion.
If you want to put words in my mouth (so to speak) - go right ahead....my opinion may be more than justified.
Stick around...I may teach you a thing or two :thumbsup:






Joe Carola said:


> I don't have to read post #17. It's all your other posts after that that I'm talking about.


Which all seem to be questions....not statements...not opinions....simply questions. 









Joe Carola said:


> You keep comparing going to the bathroom and taking deuces to smoking. I wonder where I got my opinion from. Maybe you take 3-4 deuces a day along with your cigarettes as your sitting on the bowl and enjoying a nice smoke, who knows it sounds like fun for you.


There are a great many things in life that I take pleasure in doing.
Would you like to discuss them also?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Let's try this again for those in the back row that can't see the blackboard:



Joe Carola said:


> I've never once had a guy stop working and walk away to smoke. That would never happen. All I would have to do is ask for help doing something and the guy is 50' away smoking. That would be the end.





> *Employment discrimination*
> An employer shall not refuse to hire, discharge, or take any adverse action against an employee because that employee does or does not smoke or use tobacco products, unless the employer has a rational basis for such actions which is reasonably related to the employment. Note: the Senate Labor, Industry, and Professions Committee statement specifies, "It is not the intent of the Legislature that the provisions of this bill have any impact on the terms and conditions of employer sponsored health or life insurance plans, including the right of such plans to differentiate between smokers and nonsmokers with regard to the amount of any employee contributions or copayments." NJSA 34:6B-1 through 2.
> Maximum fines: (1) $2,000 for first offense, $5,000 for each subsequent violation; collectible by the New Jersey Commissioner of Labor and enforced by the Commissioner of Labor in a summary proceeding. NJSA 34:6B-4. (2) An employee or prospective employee may file a complaint within one year from the date of the alleged violation in a court of competent jurisdiction and may be awarded an injunction, compensatory and consequential damages, or reasonable attorneys' fees and court costs. NJSA 34:6B-3.
> 
> ...


When your man that is 50' away from you gets bagged, what will be your defense. 
He was smoking your honor.

...and the man will simply state that he was heading off to the truck to get some more widgets and lit a smoke for the walk.

Even if the judge ruled in your favor...what have you won?
An all expenses un-paid trip to court perhaps w/legal representation and a parking ticket as an added bonus?
I guess you showed that disgusting smoker who was boss!

You should be thanking me for bringing that little blurb to your attention instead of getting all combative with me.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Don't think so, I call BS. If an employer states that he does not want you smoking on the job, he can do whatever he pleases if the employee smokes on the job. He broke company policy. 



> An employer shall not refuse to hire, discharge, or take any adverse action against an employee because that employee does or does not smoke or use tobacco products


That statement is not talking about smoking DURING work, it is talking about in general, a smoker or non-smoker in every day life. I can refuse to hire someone based on the fact that if they are a smoker and I am supplying their health insurance. It is a fact that smokers are more apt to lose work, die earlier, get sick more.

It has been taken to court and won in places of employment, public buildings, restaurants....almost everywhere, that people who smoke around others are causing them harm. Even the tobacco industry has admitted this.

If you're framing and have a cigarette lit and you're cutting a rafter, where's the cigarette? In your hand? In your mouth? Either place can cause a distraction to the work actually being performed. Smoke in the eyes, not having a grip on the material you are cutting.

It's unhealthy, it's dangerous, it's addictive, it costs a ****load of money to smoke, you lose years off your life, you infringe on others, the worst kind of littering, start roadside fires.....how many other plain and obvious things do you need to realize that smoking is just a waste of life?


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Let's keep it civil.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

framerman said:


> Don't think so, I call BS. If an employer states that he does not want you smoking on the job, he can do whatever he pleases if the employee smokes on the job. He broke company policy.


You better dam well better be sure that "policy" is in writing AND the employee has been given a copy AND has signed receipt for same.

EDIT:



framerman said:


> That statement is not talking about smoking DURING work, it is talking about in general, a smoker or non-smoker in every day life. I can refuse to hire someone based on the fact that if they are a smoker and I am supplying their health insurance. It is a fact that smokers are more apt to lose work, die earlier, get sick more.


Not in NJ ...you can't.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Teetorbilt said:


> Let's keep it civil.


I though it was civil ???

Nothing wrong with a spirited debate is there?


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Lost my Sister (49) and my Dad (75) *this *year. Both were lifetime smokers and died from smoke related illnesses. :sad:


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## Hamburgjl (Nov 21, 2007)

skyhook said:


> Lost my Sister (49) and my Dad (75) *this *year. Both were lifetime smokers and died from smoke related illnesses. :sad:


Thats terrible Skyhook, I'm sorry for your loss.


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

See what you started, Finley? :boxing:

This is worse than religion or politics.


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## fci (Dec 11, 2006)

*Smokers waste time*

I avoided this post but after awhile I had to throw my opinion into the mix. I prefer not to employ smokers. They are as statistics show less productive than non smokers. If you add up all the 8 minute breaks an habitual smoker needs throughout the day x 52 weeks a year times how many smokers there are in the country, it cost companies billions of dollars a year in lost production that for some reason the employer gets stuck paying and of course then passes it on to consumers (us). Ever drive by an office building and see at least 5 or 6 people out smoking? Who is paying for that? Don't get me started on how we (non smokers) pay increased insurance premiums as a result of the smoking related claims. 
My customers hate it when a smoker shows up on the job or when they come home to find cigarette butts in the gardens and butts stubbed out on the driveway. 
What really pisses me off is that cigarette companies add so many addictive chemicals that make it so hard for any person to quit the habit and our goverment allows it to happen. 
What is even worse is when a pregnant mother pulls up beside you and is puffing on an idiot stick. Bad news every where you turn.


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## PressurePros (Jul 3, 2006)

I am not pro or anti smoking. I could care less what anyone else does to their body but c'mon. You anti guys are being overboard. You are implying that a non-smoker works at maximum output, consistently for an entire workday. Not a minute is wasted telling a joke, going back to the truck for a part or tool, callin the wife or girlfriend on the cell, or standing back and just clearing their head. Thats not reality. Measure work in output, performance and pride in their work, not your personal preference as to whether a guy or girl smokes. 

My policy is smoke breaks, back at the vehicle, out of site to homeowners every 1.5 hrs as long as they let their team leader know they are going. Make any calls you have to and bring something back to the truck when you go. No smoking in the work area, period. I think it looks incredibly low class to have a butt in your mouth while you are working.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> I think it looks incredibly low class to have a butt in your mouth while you are working.


Worse than that is the schmuck who TALKS with a smoke in the mouth....that annoys me.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Ah... where did these days go???


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> My policy is smoke breaks, back at the vehicle, out of site to homeowners every 1.5 hrs


Seems like they would be thinking about the next break more than concentrating on the task at hand.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

Mike where did you get that picture of me? hahaha:laughing:


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

> You are implying that a non-smoker works at maximum output, consistently for an entire workday. Not a minute is wasted telling a joke, going back to the truck for a part or tool, callin the wife or girlfriend on the cell, or standing back and just clearing their head.


All people do that stuff, smokers and non-smokers alike.....but then the smokers take their breaks that they "deserve" on top of all that.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I won't allow it anymore. the guy who just left me about 8 months ago, he smoked and could still work but it probably looked bad to customers. so i now won't allow it while working and must be done on lunch break only which is the only real break of the day. it's about getting the job done. smokers don't DESERVE any extra breaks because they are addicted to something and can't quit.


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## Hamburgjl (Nov 21, 2007)

jproffer said:


> All people do that stuff, smokers and non-smokers alike.....but then the smokers take their breaks that they "deserve" on top of all that.


That is exactly the point JP


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