# A Tree fell on my Outdoor Unit



## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

As you can see in the photo my condensor unit took a pretty good shot from a tree that fell yesterday. This is a 1996 vintage 4 Ton Goodman, 10 seer I believe. Is it possible to just change out the condensor on this or does the inside have to replaced as well? I think the line set is pulled off so all the refrigerant is gone. I have heard that the system can become cantaminated when this happens, is this true? Also if it turns out the inside and outside are replaced together what about the furnace. Can you just get an evaporator that will sit up on top like my current setup? I plan to call a local HVAC guy tomorrow, but was just wondering what you guys thought. I imagine the insurance co. will want to do it as cheap as possible.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Basic stuff to the ins. adjuster and any HVAC guy. If you're looking for a windfall here, don't. I'm sure that you have a deductible.

Contaminated in A/C usually means that water vapor (air) is in the system. A drawdown (vacuum) is SOP when dealing with a system that has been 'opened'

My Trane is just a few years old and looks just like yours only verticle.:w00t:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

No real worries about any permanent contamination, but he's going to have to draw a real good vacuum for quite a while to assure that the sealed system is thoroughly dehydrated. 

What worries me is how much the insurance company might be willing to pay, versus what it will take to do this job. If that condensing unit is trashed (which it may well be if the coil is messed up enough), they can't replace a 10 seer with a 10 seer anymore. There are new minimum requirements, which will involve changing the indoor coil to the same seer. I have a funny feeling, with nothing real to base it on, that the insurance company might pay for an outdoor unit but not the new indoor coil. Just a guess. Keep us posted. Worst case, they'll try to stand that piece of junk back up and say it's still good to use. I wouldn't stand for that if this happens.


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> Basic stuff to the ins. adjuster and any HVAC guy. If you're looking for a windfall here, don't. I'm sure that you have a deductible.
> 
> Contaminated in A/C usually means that water vapor (air) is in the system. A drawdown (vacuum) is SOP when dealing with a system that has been 'opened'
> 
> My Trane is just a few years old and looks just like yours only verticle.:w00t:


Yea I'm not expecting any sort of windfall here, I just want to make sure I don't get stuck with some mis-matched components that will cause my already out of control electric bill to be even worse come summer time. I'm just hoping to get it working atleast as well as it did before the tree fell, and I know there are many ways it can get scewed up. :no:


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

mdshunk said:


> No real worries about any permanent contamination, but he's going to have to draw a real good vacuum for quite a while to assure that the sealed system is thoroughly dehydrated.
> 
> What worries me is how much the insurance company might be willing to pay, versus what it will take to do this job. If that condensing unit is trashed (which it may well be if the coil is messed up enough), they can't replace a 10 seer with a 10 seer anymore. There are new minimum requirements, which will involve changing the indoor coil to the same seer. I have a funny feeling, with nothing real to base it on, that the insurance company might pay for an outdoor unit but not the new indoor coil. Just a guess. Keep us posted. Worst case, they'll try to stand that piece of junk back up and say it's still good to use. I wouldn't stand for that if this happens.


Yea, I can't imagine an HVAC guy would think it's a good idea to stand this thing up again. I won't stand for that either. The condensor coil is bent pretty bad. It's hard to see in this in the photo.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I would opt out, & pay the difference for an upgrade to a 12+ seer, with the old type freon. Your unit is 10 yrs old, & if you replace the inside A-coil you can go to a 3x coil...yours is most likely a 1x or 2x. A coils are only a few hundred bucks. If you stay with the old type freon, you can still use the old lower head pressure pump. The new high seer pumps using the new type freon, requires double the head pressure to operate, simply because the new freon doesn't work as well as the old. I just don't see how they can hold up as well as the old 1/2 head pressure pumps. I went through replacing my AC unit last summer, with similar decisions. I was told that the old freon will be available for at least 20 years.

Look at a new high efficiency pump & A coil, using the old freon, with low a head pressure pump, with a near state of the art efficiency, & proven long life. I also think the deductable would be minimal if you went this rout.
Joe


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

This is a local company that has an excellent, informative web site, with pricing info:
http://www.thecomfortzone.com/heating_air_conditioning/heating_cooling_products/cooling/

Check out the A coils. The newer ones have triple level coils, increasing the efficiency. I believe you can get up to a seer 14 with the R-22 refrigerant.
The variable speed blowers are also very nice.
Joe


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## snapperhead (Jul 3, 2006)

once the freon vents out and the systems goes atmospheric then the outdoor conditions fill the exsiting system.how about a pix in the upright position on that condenser...try to free wheel the condenser fan blade.the oil in the compressor picks up moisture during this state the liquid line dryer has to be replaced with new condenser and freon.if the compressor is a hermetic see if you can get a scroll one much cheaper on the electric bill.the inside can just stay the same with all the work outside even with a new condenser changeout.even if the A coil must be updated to match a more efficant condenser the coil can be slipped out to change..then maybe a supply fan to boot.if the tree just knocked the condenser over and the lines snapped and blew the charge with the coil intact and the condenser clears the housing you miight not need to change anything and let the insurance cover the repipe and the recharging by a good company.i have seen commercial systems loose major charges over the winter,and take a good RE-VAC,new dryers and oil changes and never had problems ..it all concerns who doing the repairs


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

snapperhead said:


> once the freon vents out and the systems goes atmospheric then the outdoor conditions fill the exsiting system.how about a pix in the upright position on that condenser...try to free wheel the condenser fan blade.the oil in the compressor picks up moisture during this state the liquid line dryer has to be replaced with new condenser and freon.if the compressor is a hermetic see if you can get a scroll one much cheaper on the electric bill.the inside can just stay the same with all the work outside even with a new condenser changeout.even if the A coil must be updated to match a more efficant condenser the coil can be slipped out to change..then maybe a supply fan to boot.if the tree just knocked the condenser over and the lines snapped and blew the charge with the coil intact and the condenser clears the housing you miight not need to change anything and let the insurance cover the repipe and the recharging by a good company.i have seen commercial systems loose major charges over the winter,and take a good RE-VAC,new dryers and oil changes and never had problems ..it all concerns who doing the repairs


The insurance co. sent a so called Direct Repair contractor out yesterday to take a look at it. The tech seemed to me to be the same type of contractor an extended warranty co. would send out. He suggested changing the A-coil as well as the condensor. I looked up his company name and could find no record of it what so ever. Im waiting for his estimate. How much you want to bet the only brand option he can offer me is Goodman? I'll wait for his estimate, but so far I see red flags. I'm glad he wants to swap out both the inside and the outside, but I heard him talking to his partner about what A-coil to match up with what condensor and it seemed that he was trying to decide which of three coils he has back at the shop may work. My main concern is a good match. His main concern seems to be unloading a A-coil he's stuck with. :furious:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

robertc65 said:


> My main concern is a good match. His main concern seems to be unloading a A-coil he's stuck with. :furious:


....the plot thickens.

Keep us posted. This is interesting. Insist on model numbers when they do offer a proposal, and research them to make sure they're a decent match. To go for the kill, collect copies of his insurance.


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## AngusII (Dec 3, 2007)

You need to get your own contractor who you trust. Insurance companies cannot force you to use their contractors. (Unless I misunderstood and it is a home warranty type situation.) I have done insurance work in the past for my clients. I usually have to fight with them a little bit but I have never had an insurance company not pay me for what I did.

Gary.


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

mdshunk said:


> ....the plot thickens.
> 
> Keep us posted. This is interesting. Insist on model numbers when they do offer a proposal, and research them to make sure they're a decent match. To go for the kill, collect copies of his insurance.


Yea it is interesting. I did not know this direct repair deal was getting so popular with the insurance companies. They sent out a restoration company who is also a general contractor to look over the damage and report back to the adjuster. The adjuster will see no more than photos. The contractor says they do all their own work except for electric and HVAC. They did tell me I'm under no obligation to use their services and their estimate was generated using a 3rd party estimating tool which most insurance companies utilize. So far the general contractor / restoration company seems pretty good. I'll wait to see what the HVAC guy comes up with. I just have visions of this guy duct taping some fabricated metal box on top of my furnace with a mis-matched coil jammed inside of it.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

robertc65 said:


> I'll wait to see what the HVAC guy comes up with. I just have visions of this guy duct taping some fabricated metal box on top of my furnace with a mis-matched coil jammed inside of it.


I don't have to visualize that, myself. I've seen such things live and in person.


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## AngusII (Dec 3, 2007)

Oh the insurance companies love the direct deals. It is just like the warranty companies. They hammer the contractor on price and tell the contractor it is worth it because of the advertising and increased customer base you get for "free" but eventually the contractor gets tired of working for "free" and either cuts every corner they can, try to up sell policy holder or they quit working with the insurance company. The price these direct deal guys are working for is what the insurance company uses to try and tell me what the market rate is for my work. I just tell them I charge what I charge and the customer already signed a contract with me and there is basically nothing they can do about it.


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## meterman98 (Mar 15, 2008)

*wind blown unit*

If you`re system is a 10 seer syst. and the outside unit is replaced the evap. coil should be replaced also.There is a new, well (kind of new) law now that brought the minnimum seer available up to 13 seer.That air handler in your pic.looks like a gas furnace but I don`t see any vent pipe,gas furnaces are a little less as critical they are straight cool.A heat pump syst. is more critical about mis- matching seer.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Railman said:


> This is a local company that has an excellent, informative web site, with pricing info:
> http://www.thecomfortzone.com/heating_air_conditioning/heating_cooling_products/cooling/
> 
> Check out the A coils. The newer ones have triple level coils, increasing the efficiency. I believe you can get up to a seer 14 with the R-22 refrigerant.
> ...


Look at his lowest price guarantee.I hate the big guys like this that probably pay thier guys less so you can have the best price.Thier cut-throats,under-bidding everyone.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

threaderman said:


> Look at his lowest price guarantee.I hate the big guys like this that probably pay thier guys less so you can have the best price.Thier cut-throats,under-bidding everyone.


I don't know about that but they are incredibly organized, have happy experienced workers, great communication, & great service. They also do the highest volume rework jobs in our city. They just have their act together! They redid our gas furnace about 5 years ago, & recently redid our AC outside, & inside A-coil. I'm very pleased with them, & the equipment.
Joe


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Railman said:


> I don't know about that but they are incredibly organized, have happy experienced workers, great communication, & great service. They also do the highest volume rework jobs in our city. They just have their act together! They redid our gas furnace about 5 years ago, & recently redid our AC outside, & inside A-coil. I'm very pleased with them, & the equipment.
> Joe


 You know as well as I that if they're getting every job that they are low-balling the rest of the contractors.There is no need to be that greedy or cut-throat,but it is good you had a nice experience with them.


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

*Update to my Tree Saga*

I want to say that at this point that I think I had the wrong impression of the original contractor. All though my job is has not been done yet due to insurance co. delays, I have had a few dicussions with this AC guy and he has instilled more confidence in me. He has suggested that we replace my current Coil and Condensor with a Heat pump while leaving the original furnace in place. He wants to use a Trane 13 seer unit and control it via a VisionPro 8000 stat/controller. I was wanting a dual fuel option for a long time, but I had thought you had to change out the furnace and all. I did not know about fossil fuel kits or the VisionPro. My original impression of this guy was that he would not be able to obtain anything but a Goodman, but I was wrong. I can't comment on his work yet, but he'll be doing the install on Thursday. 

Rob


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