# ungauged slate tips



## Aaron Tritt (Feb 4, 2011)

I was wondering what kinds of tricks anybody has for installing slate. Also, what kind of sealer do you prefer?

I like to set slate as tight as possible (obviously to a grid). I normally end up picking each piece up 2-3 times to ensure that the majority of the tile is as flat to the next one as possible. 

After the tiles are dry, I tape and mask off the room, get out the grinder and cut each grout joint straight and even. This is the only tile I use a 3/16" joint for. Everything else is 1/8" or less...

Then I get out a hammer and chisel and knock off all unacceptable lips.

I hear that a lot of people seal their slate before the install, but I never do.
When I am grouting I do one or two passes over the surface of the slate with a sponge to act as a grout release. It works very well, and I have no issues cleaning the grout excess off the surface. Of course smaller sections than ceramic at a time...

After a couple days, I use either stonetec impregnator pro or enhancer pro depending on the customer's style.

Do other guys out here go through that much effort? I know I have seen a LOT of sloppy looking slate installs..


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Guess it all depends on the where you get your slate tile from and the quality of the manufacturer. Generally I take a little time and sort the tile by thickness and start w/ the thickest tiles first so I can built up the rest for a more even finish. I seal before I grout any natural stone although usually only 1/2 hour or so before I grout and I wet before I grout. Spacers stay in the truck for slate.

I must admit I've only had 2 customers who were dead set on slate. I usually talk them into something a little nicer to work w/ like travertine.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

One day you guys will finally grow out of all that crap!


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## TileWizard (Jan 14, 2011)

ungauged slate sucks. but it can be done. i will use a 1/2" trowel and as we say "put that **** in". i have ground some joints out because they can get pretty bad and out of square and also knocked of bad corners. i dont bother trying to set my slate joints close, this is on case where i will do a 1/4" joint so i dont get screwed down the line some where.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

I was going to comment that - "un gauged slate is not intended for thin set installations". 

Then I realized this is the professional forum, so really no need to get into it.

Jaz


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Generally outside when tying an existing slab into a new patio or pathway.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> I was going to comment that - "un gauged slate is not intended for thin set installations".


That comment kind of threw me a curve for minute.

I suppose in the days of ungauged slate that was about one inch thick and more and came in wooden cribs I would agree. But with today's home center slate tiles that comes in a cardboard box, thinset is the only way I'll deal with that stuff. It isn't square, it isn't all the same size or even close, and the gauge variance is ridiculous. It's cheap, people seem to like it, I install it, but I won't fuss with it like those other guys talk about above. It is what it is and the customer takes what they get, wafers and all. The end.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Bud Cline said:


> It isn't square, it isn't all the same size or even close, and the gauge variance is ridiculous. It's cheap, people seem to like it,


And I have no idea why they like it, but I guess that's the "art is in the eye of the beholder" or something. But I don't think they realize all the sharp gradients in even semi-gauged.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

slate is natural. It is supposed to have a variance.. nothing is perfect in nature. I love the look and feel. Have a bunch I am doing in my own home.


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## Aaron Tritt (Feb 4, 2011)

I agree. Slate can be a beautiful looking flooring option.

Sure, it has variances that are outrageous compared to other stones/tiles as far as thickness, color, unevenness, goes. 

I still think that some care and pride in my installation is important. Not just shuck it and tell the customer what you get is what you get. Homeowners have the ability to just trowel the floor and set a tile in the mud. I have seen it. It is bad.

I realize that my effort and dedication to quality may seem excessive, but I charge for it. My slate install price is much higher than any other tile that I install.

No need to be a smart Jaz. We are all here to learn and help better our industry's reputation. I worked for a company for years and we always used thinset without a failure.

I want to make sure that what I offer is actually the best that there is. Sounds like with my dedication and maybe medium set mortar it will be.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Gauged and honed slate is always an option too.


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## Aaron Tritt (Feb 4, 2011)

gauged and honed slate is one of my favorites


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

A lot depends on where it comes from. I have 2 colors we've used a lot of from Brazil that come to me as perfect as any porcelain in thickness and squareness.

I have seen some varieties of slate that were completely unacceptable for any use within or without the home. Softer, surface slates are prone to chipping and spalling, and home center varieties are usually a mixed bag--like a box of chocolates. :laughing:

Cutting in your grout joints after installation probably yields a great result--but I can't imagine doing that in an interior, occupied space. The mess must be horrendous. I'd be curious to see a piece you'd chipped the high spot off of--I can't imagine that not being noticeable unless the material was really wavy and rough. 

It's hard to avoid some degree of re-setting with even a well guaged slate. The irregularity, as mentioned, is part of the look and character of the material. (And definitely something to set expectations on when it is selected.)

That irregularity in size and squareness can be a royal PITA. Our usual spacing is 1/8"--with some areas being up to 3/16" strong as we jockey and cheat the pieces to fit. It's usually best to set full rows at a time with a straight edge on one side, pull the straight edge and cheat the individual pieces to split the differences in squareness. Really wackey pieces get set aside for cuts.

As for slate being unsuitable for thinset applications--I've installed around 20,000+ square feet of it in that way over the last ten years, in dozens of homes I continue to build in and service, without a failure. So I'm not sure what the passive aggressive shot at the forum being "professional" is all about. If there's a spec somewhere that indicates slate shouldn't be put down with thinset, I'd be very interested to see it

We seal before grouting in every case, but since switching to epoxy grouts we've moved away from using any acrylic/surface sealers. The chemicals in the epoxy strip them away and make it look like hell.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Two projects with slate from about 8 years ago, same house:

http://www.wrightworks.net/2004/cherry-and-slate-kitchen-remodeling-butler-tarkington/
http://www.wrightworks.net/2004/slate-master-bath-remodel-in-butler-tarkington/


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Since we're talking all things slate, has anyone worked with Vermont slate? I have bid a few projects with honed Vermont slate but they never came to fruition.


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## Aaron Tritt (Feb 4, 2011)

I only use that technique for really textured slates. Sometimes a tile will break incorrectly and one will have to be torn out and replaced before grouting.

Here is a link with some pictures of HD multi color (poor quality slate) I have installed with the technique I talked about at the beginning.
http://www.customexpressionsllc.com/Untitled-1.html


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Aaron Tritt said:


> I only use that technique for really textured slates. Sometimes a tile will break incorrectly and one will have to be torn out and replaced before grouting.
> 
> Here is a link with some pictures of HD multi color (poor quality slate) I have installed with the technique I talked about at the beginning.
> http://www.customexpressionsllc.com/Untitled-1.html


Nice work. :thumbsup:


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

I prefer gauged slate but have installed alot of ungauged. I knock down the high corners on ungauged with a stiff putty knife like AAron. It all blends together. The real out of square get put aside like Chris does. And, I don't cut the joints but after seeing the look, I might consider doing that if I can keep the dust down to an acceptable level.

There is a "cool" factor to the natural clefts and high and low spots that some people like. In a few installs, I've come across ferns and small fossilized shells on the surface. Those get put in a prominent place to be admired.

Vermont slate is very dense. Higher cost factor. High end. The ones I've put in were very regular in color. I prefer the look of multi color slates though.


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## Leafan (Aug 10, 2010)

Any of you guys lay out the floor before actually setting the tile. I did one bathroom all slate. The floor was unguaged allot of variance. So I actually layed out the whole floor (dry) and shifted and played with the tiles (color & thickness) until I was happy. Then I numbered them. Then laid them. 

I know it was allot of extra work. But it looked great in the end. Oh and I also managed to have the toilet and bedet nice and flat on the floor. Lol


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Leafan said:


> Any of you guys lay out the floor before actually setting the tile. I did one bathroom all slate. The floor was unguaged allot of variance. So I actually layed out the whole floor (dry) and shifted and played with the tiles (color & thickness) until I was happy. Then I numbered them. Then laid them.
> 
> I know it was allot of extra work. But it looked great in the end. Oh and I also managed to have the toilet and bedet nice and flat on the floor. Lol


Nice work. Camera phone? :whistling


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