# Piers for foundation repair



## medusa (Dec 13, 2005)

I think this is the best area to post this:

Existing foundation, slab, tri-story house foundation slopes 6".
Clay soil, near water.
Two estimates:

First:
hand dig tunnels, install 90 piers around/under house-6' O.C.
"House will not even be resting on soil, it will be resting on piers."
Ultra piles sections are pressed down hydraulically into soil to engineered "resistance".
(half the cost is hand digging/backfilling the tunnels)
Lifetime/transferable warranty.

Second:
install 24 piers around 3 lower sides house, mud pump or grout pump into void left from raising foundation/slab.
Piers pressed down hydraulically into soil to engineered "resistance."
10 year/transferable warranty.

First estimate is three times the second.


House is 25 years old, all the houses in the area have piers except this one, all were built on, or had elephant piers retro-installed, they still are moving a little, which is acceptable, considering the area/soil.

Anyone in the retro-pier/fountation leveling business on this site that I can talk with?

thanks, Wayne


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Get a 3d estimate :thumbsup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Anyone around you do helical piers?


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## medusa (Dec 13, 2005)

3d estimate, good idea, waiting on two return calls.

Haven't found anyone who does helical piers yet.

Down in South Texas, Corpus Christi area, tough finding some things down here.


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## HUI (Jan 21, 2011)

I would look for helicals alsoa


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

man, am glad we don't have soils problems like that here...real estate is cheap...crappy ground? buy another piece of property.


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## aghdonmc (Mar 30, 2010)

We sub this work out, and it is for elevation purposes, not for leveling but what you described in the first estimate would be considered standard practice around here. However, just to make sure are you trying to level the house, or merely prevent it from sinking?

I have some concerns with the second plan, namely how much faith the company places in the slab and footings. Seems like an awful lot of tension to be placing on a slab, especially one with three stories above. It also seems like you would still have differential settlement when 3/4s of the home rests on piers, along with additional loads from the mudjacking. 

The house sounds like it should have had piles from the start, therefore making number one the winner in terms of longevity. Even without the lifetime warranty it is a solid yet costly plan. 

Just from my experience in dealing with these companies remember to include moving utilities, most likely plumbing. These companies often leave out these costs in there initial estimates.


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## medusa (Dec 13, 2005)

Yup, trying to level the house as well as stablize it.
Both subs claim that the jacking process while installing the piers will "level" the house "to the extent it can be" without damaging the structure above.

The first guy states: "the house will not be resting on the soil anymore, so soil expansion/contraction will not be an issue, the house will be resting on the piers", make sense to me, 20, 30, 40 feet deep, the soil should be more stablized.

The second guy states the house will be resting on the jacking mud/grout that fills the void.

Yup, I like the first guy's idea/method/design much, much better, but....3 times the cost, not sure it's worth it.

All the other houses in the area have elephant piers, most installed when the houses were built, some after, they all move.

Thing is, looking on Google Earth history, this area was huge gullies, backfilled with who knows what, so soil borings are not valid, since 10 feet away, the soil is different, so the elephant piers "designed" to the soil....no wonder they aren't working for the other houses in the area.

I moved from Kalifornia, Santa Clara County, bay mud, contraction/expansion; the houses move there, and then they really moved at times .

Heck, Mamma Nature is boss, we can't beat her, just try to work with her, so
I don't mind the house "flexing" some, and of course the price difference is attractive.....but....you get what you pay for....

Still checking on finding helical pier contractor(s), sounds like a great, less expensive method.

Thanks gentlemen.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

aghdonmc said:


> ...It also seems like you would still have differential settlement when 3/4s of the home rests on piers, along with additional loads from the mudjacking....making number one the winner in terms of longevity.


:thumbsup:


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

medusa said:


> ...I like the first guy's idea/method/design much, much better, but....3 times the cost, not sure it's worth it.


What is "3 times the cost" as expressed as a percentage of the property's current market value? If it's 15% then the cheaper solution is 5% of the property value?


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

I third Helical Piers...


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## imesser82 (Jan 27, 2011)

its sounds like grout piles might be a cheaper option. we drill down to bedrock around the house and install casing. then pump high pressure grout on top of the bedrock and pull the casing out pumping in stages as we go. effectively building grout piers under the house that extend from bedrock to the bottom of the slab. you could also compaction grout the area of poor soil to tighten up and stabilize the immediate area and even gain some lift, if that is the intention. google geotechnical services and see if there are any in your area. we see alot of poor soil compaction, sinkholes, and caves in east tennessee where i am so i know what a pain this problem can be. hope this helps.


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## assets444 (Aug 20, 2010)

That sounds like a do-over to me. You probably are in the correct subform. Maybe an excavator, loader, and truck are needed for this job. Good luck!


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## medusa (Dec 13, 2005)

Pipeguy: "What is "3 times the cost" as expressed as a percentage of the property's current market value? If it's 15% then the cheaper solution is 5% of the property value"
"3 times the cost", is just about 15% as expressed as a percentage of the property's current market value, once some piers are installed and the house is leveled....I did get the place for a lower than "market value", well aware of the foundation problem, had engineering report, one repair estimate for elephant piers, and soils report done prior to purchase.
Spending even the 15%, (the first higher/better/more involved work done), the place should be valued similar to other houses in the area.

The main culprit in this house settling was/is a city 30" storm drain that ran right next to the house (within 15') that failed 10 years ago, the city re-routed the line further away from the house then. It has since failed again one year ago, and then again four months ago. Watching the city make repairs has been very entertaining...while their contractor was repairing the storm drain, (the same contractor, actually the same foreman that made the repairs one year ago), they damaged the high voltage electrical line adjacent to the trench, and while that was being repaired, that contractor damaged the city's sewer line, and while that was being repaired, the city damaged the Verizon line, true story.

I've built a dry creek bed/swale (landscaped so it looks pretty nice) that will handle more water then the city's storm drain line, so when their line fails again, the water will be carried even further away from and around the house.

imesser82: Not sure if there is any bedrock, and if there is, how far down.
Everyone in the neighborhood has the same/similar problem, most have had elephant piers installed, and they don't seem to be the best solution, all that have had it done still have more than "normal" settling.

Really having a tough time getting a helical pier install estimate, does not seem to be the norm around here, Arredondo Group is in Austin, and San Antonio, but won't/doesn't come down here.

Got several calls/emails out there, waiting on responses back.

I posted awhile back about pool being unlevel, and rather than try and raise/level that, I've decided to partially backfill to lower (3') depth end, and then place above ground pool inside inground pool, lot, lot, less expensive.
Plus all the movement, that keeps causing leaks in supply/return lines will not be a factor, as re-routing lines between sides of new and old pool, will make them accesable, and not subject to ground movement.

I find it much easier, more enjoyable to "work for myself" on my own place, then selling it, rather than work on someone else's house.
But my next project will be from scratch, no more remodeling, found a lot 20 miles north of here, up the coast, should be even more fun than fixing an existing house.

Thanks for the input/suggestions,
Wayne


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