# Collections...yes!



## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Griz, Davis...and many more...remember way back when I was going through the Apartment saga? Well I turned that prick over to collections and he hired an attorney, no biggie, we have attorneys too, and today the owner prick had his attorney call and offer to settle... 

Lol. Get this... After the owner prick intentionally flooded his building out and tried to pin my insurance for $200,000+..

After he burned me on the last payment for 16,000
After he stole all our tools while we were at lunch AND asked to borrow our ladder, never returned it and then denied having any recollection of it..
After he told me to meet him on site and then had his office staff call the cops on me while he had his maintenance guys take all our material and lock it up (for himself)
After he breached the contract 100 different ways and made my life hell for 6 months!... this stupid dumb mf offered to settle w me for 4,000 (collections gets 2000) if i agreed to give him a 5 year workmanship warranty from the date of payment! Hhhhhaaaa. 

Is he freckin unbelievable or what? 
I told my collections guys H×÷+ F×+÷ NO!! Are you kidding me? DON'T EVER EVEN CALL ME WITH THAT BS AGAIN. BYE!!

It's been 2 years! God only knows what those roofs look like now with all the people he let's up there! Even if they were in perfect condition, I wouldn't EVER!! put myself in a position where that prick could burn me again!

So my collections guy is like wanting to use the warranty as leverage... I said, ya better find something else to use dude, I can't do it. 

Seeing that im only going to get half of what they collect.... does anyone have some strategies they can make me privi to?? 

I'd just as soon sue him for the lost profit on the entire contract which was 525k (total contract price)

No skin off my back, what's lost is already behind me and gone in my head so I don't mind waiting.


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## charlie828 (Feb 22, 2009)

And people think being a contractor is the road to riches… Stick in there and good luck.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

If you already have a lawyer, why do you need a collections person? Am I missing something?...

a 1/3 for a lawyer is better than half for collections who, as you can see, are after their interests... only reason to involve a collectins person is is they are buying the debt from you at a discounted price and they have to worry about collecting... 

In attempting to settle, the debtor has admitted he owes you the debt and is trying to get out of it for as little as possible...


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Did you run a criminal background check on him? It seems like he's pretty practiced as a scammer.

Like a lawyer friend of mine told me, watch out, there's a lot of snakes in Dallas...


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

Did you at all put a mechanics lien on the building(s). I currently am dealing with a condominium association and management company for money we are owed.


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## 1985gt (Dec 10, 2010)

Some people know how to work the system like this. Some times large dudes with lots of tattoos and baseball bats gets the point across pretty well.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

At 6'7" and close to 300 lbs I will offer my services to help collect.
But only if bail money is ready when it is needed


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

> bail money is ready when it is needed


Or you'll be looking for some young slender guy you can put your arm around and call honey. :laughing:


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I really hope you do okay in the end. 
There should be jail time for A- holes like that. 
It really shouldn't be able to drag on like that. 
Lawyers suck, unless you need one.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Stay with the lawyer, & go to court. Don't ever settle. In Indiana if the amount is more than $6000 (small claims threshold) then you can collect legal fees. Then the lawyers start foaming at the mouth, as they can really have a payday.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KAP said:


> If you already have a lawyer, why do you need a collections person? Am I missing something?...
> 
> a 1/3 for a lawyer is better than half for collections who, as you can see, are after their interests... only reason to involve a collectins person is is they are buying the debt from you at a discounted price and they have to worry about collecting...
> 
> In attempting to settle, the debtor has admitted he owes you the debt and is trying to get out of it for as little as possible...


Nope, an attempt to settle almost always calls it "nuisance money" for you to go away. It isn't any admission to guilt. Any Lawyer worth his salt will put this in the language.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> Nope, an attempt to settle almost always calls it "nuisance money" for you to go away. It isn't any admission to guilt. Any Lawyer worth his salt will put this in the language.


Not when there was a contract to begin with that they are in breach of and for work they want a warranty on...

The debtor has admitted he owes you the debt and is trying to get out of it for as little as possible...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KAP said:


> Not when there was a contract to begin with that they are in breach of and for work they want a warranty on...
> 
> The debtor has admitted he owes you the debt and is trying to get out of it for as little as possible...


That might be, but if there's a settlement the guy will have language that says the settlement isn't an admission of nothing. I've had many settlements and every single one had that language in it. I believe it's sop. So offering a settlement doesn't necessarily mean he owes you anything, it could very well just mean he wants to end the litigation. People settle all the time for money even though they really don't owe it, simply because it's more expensive to fight. That will certainly include language that says it's not an admission of wrong doing.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> That might be, but if there's a settlement the guy will have language that says the settlement isn't an admission of nothing. I've had many settlements and every single one had that language in it. I believe it's sop. So offering a settlement doesn't necessarily mean he owes you anything, it could very well just mean he wants to end the litigation. People settle all the time for money even though they really don't owe it, simply because it's more expensive to fight. That will certainly include language that says it's not an admission of wrong doing.


Unless it contains the words "without prejudice" it doesn't release them...

I'm surprised to hear you say you've had many settlements. I thought you didn't have trouble collecting your money?... :blink:

.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

madrina said:


> Seeing that im only going to get half of what they collect.... does anyone have some strategies they can make me privi to??


My recollection is you wouldn't be able to prove some of this stuff in court, like stealing the tools and ladder. If you could, you could do some of those in small claims as separate actions. It has to be worth your while, though.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Collections usually works on a no win no fee policy, and although i would have liked to sue him, i couldnt afford to spend any more money or time on it at that point. I think once I collect on the money he owes me, I will then sue him for breech of contract. My attorney says I'm entitled to collect the profit I would have made on the job had it been completed, but there might be some underlining factors there that we havent discussed. 

Framer, I'm going to need you to send me a picture of said 6'7" 300 lb frame... uhh..it's for the HR department or something. Its required before hire. I'm not opposed to settling out of court and this case would surely be a candidate. 

1985, yes. He is a crook and this type of fvckary is all part of his master plan so ive learned. It's a game to him, to use the smaller companies, have them undercut eachother to get the best price and then screw them hoping they won't retaliate. Either because they can't afford to or don't know how to. Anything under 50 grand is almost not worth fighting for...being a civil matter and there is nothing legal in place to enforce payment even if you do win, you could spend 30 grand chasing 50 and still may not see a dime of it. That would be where framer comes in. 

Davis, No, i probably wouldn't be able to prove he stole our tools... 

Kap and cali, i think the laws vary from state to state and I do believe in Texas it's an admission of guilt...BUT I'm not sure. That just sounds familiar. I don't doubt they could word it differently in the paperwork, but why would anyone pay something they didn't owe? 

Regardless, I'm not going to settle for any less than he owes and I'm not going to extend any warranty past the original time frame outlined in the contract. And even that I won't do without inspection first. But really, screw this guy. I'm not doing any inspection until I get paid first.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Red cedar. Yes and no on the lien.. I started to, but there are a lot of rules and time frames you must adhere to or your lien is not valid. I didn't want to mess it up over a technicality, so I hired a company to do it for me and they would have messed it up, had I not read up on the time frame part of it, so that kinda pissed me off that they were that careless and I told them to beat it. 

So no lien has been filed and I kind of forgot about doing that until you mentioned it, but it's too late now because I hired the collections co. To handle it.


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## 1985gt (Dec 10, 2010)

madrina said:


> 1985, yes. He is a crook and this type of fvckary is all part of his master plan so ive learned. It's a game to him, to use the smaller companies, have them undercut eachother to get the best price and then screw them hoping they won't retaliate. Either because they can't afford to or don't know how to. Anything under 50 grand is almost not worth fighting for...being a civil matter and there is nothing legal in place to enforce payment even if you do win, you could spend 30 grand chasing 50 and still may not see a dime of it. That would be where framer comes in.


A few years ago this happened to us. On going repairs on a slum of a building, We knew there was going to be problems when he started recording the time the guys showed up and left (elevator access and he had the only key ) We found all this out when the first bill came. Boss man says the time is recorded from the time they leave the shop till they return, just like any other repair. Offers to settle for 75% of the labor just to be done with it, this was going on for months. Still no payment and then no return calls to the lawyers ect. Lawyers start looking in to him, yep we were sure not the first and not the last basically no recourse since we would have been so far down the list for all the liens against his properties. Small claims isn't worth the hassle, not like they will actually in force it. 

Fast forward to this past year, working on his neighbors building that is attached, middle of a area they are trying to upgrade to bring in more people no access except one two/three stall deep parking spot behind the buildings. I show up to check on the guys work pull up behind the my guys truck who was blocking a car there. Just so happened to be Mr. Jackballs car. He comes out throws a major tissy fit yelling and screaming about that's his spot. I let him know that unless he paid his bill our trucks would be sitting there, since I figured the 10+K he owed us is part owner of his parking spot if not more. Threatens to call the police and goes in side. No police no other word from him. Stupid punks


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

Framer, I'm going to need you to send me a picture of said 6'7" 300 lb frame... uhh..it's for the HR department or something. Its required before hire. I'm not opposed to settling out of court and this case would surely be a candidate. 

I am not quite as old as Griz, but I am close to the same size.

Us oldies can be huge and intimidating.
I am not into selfies.......


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

KAP said:


> Unless it contains the words "without prejudice" it doesn't release them...
> 
> I'm surprised to hear you say you've had many settlements. I thought you didn't have trouble collecting your money?... :blink:
> 
> .


I've had settlements with insurance for other things, not that I fought them they always have language.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

madrina said:


> so guess what. I've made my decision.


And???? Did I miss it?...


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

i asked my attorney if I could sue for breach of contract on the entire contract (of which I can collect only the profit I would have made and he said yes. I said should I? and he said Susan, if you are going to sue, sue for everything you can get because there will never be a day when you sue for 100,000 and they want to settle for 130,000.

Hes right. Maybe that will make him rethink the whole thing. This is about to get ugly and costly. So now for the funding.. Speaking of... I better get back to work! 

Ps, Can I redeem my points for cash?? lol


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

...Collections...No!

My experience was that the collections company owned the debt once I signed with them. If I sued with my own lawyer they would take half the proceeds.

Anyway, this thread reminded me of Ed The Roofer. This is a quote from a Nov 5, 2010 post of his:


*As stated by someone else already, don't count your chickens before they are hatched.

It usually takes a long time to go through the entire court process and even then, if you win, often times the judiciary follows what is commonly known as, "The American Rule", regarding each party being responsible for their own legal expenses, even if you have some version of a clause accepted in your signed contract that states that.

I just finished up a 3 1/2 year long case regarding $ 22,000.00 and when all was said and done, even though I was awarded a 100 % victory, the amount I recieved was around $ 10,000.00 and that took 3 1/2 years to get from the time we did the job.

Sometimes it's better to take what you can get, within reason and concentrate on current and future projects, rather than hope for a full meritous victory and always referring back to the past. You know, "A Bird In The Hand....." as they say.

Good Luck,

Ed*


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## DBBII (Aug 28, 2008)

I've done some consulting work over the years for some attorneys. If you really press them (and since I was working for them, they were a little more honest), you are crazy to go to court over anything less than $100,000. The attorney fees will eat you alive. Will you get them back? Maybe. But, the attorney is going to want money as they go along. Can you afford to finance, say $50,000 in fees?

Before you say I'm crazy and it doesn't cost that much, remember the attorney is working on a time and material basis at maybe $300 an hour. They typically bill in 1/10 of an hour (6 minutes). You have no real way of verifying the hours. 

So, the attorney has to review all your documents. Remember, a lot of this is paper, not who said what. You do have some documents, right? This is not a "he said, she said" thing. 

In most cases, the absolute worst witness is an eyewitness. There had better be something else to hang your hat on.

Now we are going to prepare Interrogatories. Then Request for Admissions. Then discovery. Then the other side is going to do the same thing that you will have to respond to (with your attorney). 

Now, chances are good the Judge is going to require mediation. Remember, Judges really don't want to try every case. They want most to settle. 

Mediation. A couple of days for your attorney to prep. Mediator fees (they don't work for free -- parties split the cost). A day of mediation. Maybe a second day a month or so later.

Let's say you are rich enough to pay for all this junk and you still want to go to trial. Do you really want to put your case in the hands of 6 people that really aren't smart enough to get out of jury duty? If any of them had ever had dealings with a contractor, chances are they really think they got overcharged for whatever it was that they had done. You are at a disadvantage.

Finally, if (and that's a big if) you win, is there anything to collect? Chances are the apartments are in some kind of an LLC. He could, for example, mortgage the property to himself. You would end up second behind the first mortgage. Yes, it's to him, but it's a different company.
(I speak from the voice of experience on this one).

I believe I recall you said this was over about $20,000. Your only real chance was a lien, but you said that never got done. That's poor business. While hard to accept, you are better off to write off the money rather than spend more trying to chase it. You also have to factor in the amount of your time this will take -- time that you could better spend in your business.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

DBBII said:


> I've done some consulting work over the years for some attorneys. If you really press them (and since I was working for them, they were a little more honest), you are crazy to go to court over anything less than $100,000. The attorney fees will eat you alive. Will you get them back? Maybe. But, the attorney is going to want money as they go along. Can you afford to finance, say $50,000 in fees?
> 
> Before you say I'm crazy and it doesn't cost that much, remember the attorney is working on a time and material basis at maybe $300 an hour. They typically bill in 1/10 of an hour (6 minutes). You have no real way of verifying the hours.
> 
> ...


Good info right there.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Yep. I agree.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Got a call today from an asset liability investigator. He said he was conducting an investigation for a lawsuit that was about to be filed against me. I just started laughing and asked him how i could help. He asked me what kind of car i drove, where i banked, where my office was, where i was at present and i said, im on a job. he said what job. i said a roof job. he said yeah where? i said wylie. he said whats the address? i said what difference does it make? none of your business. then i thought he said is it a permanent job? and i said NO ITS A ROOF JOB and then he said so do you make it a habit of not pulling permits on your jobs? and I said what? and he repeated himself and i just hung up on him. 

but i listened to our convo again when i got home and he asked me was it a permitted job.. lol btw. yes all my calls and text get recorded and backed up to an email account and BOY DOES THAT COME IN HANDY! LOVE THAT APP call record and sms backup. 

so he is supposedly trying to either A find out if its worth it to sue me, B find out if he can sue me and win by default in the event that he can out spend me C trying to scare me and D beat me to the punch of filing a lawsuit


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

so does anyone know what rights this asset liability investigator has or what all he can inspect? I office out of my home at the moment, can he come here? Im an llc... arent my personal belongings off limit.?


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

madrina said:


> so does anyone know what rights this asset liability investigator has or what all he can inspect? I office out of my home at the moment, can he come here? Im an llc... arent my personal belongings off limit.?


He can investigate all he wants... without a court order, you don't have to supply anything...

.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

madrina said:


> so does anyone know what rights this asset liability investigator has or what all he can inspect? I office out of my home at the moment, can he come here? Im an llc... arent my personal belongings off limit.?


I have never heard of a liability Invesigator before, wish I could help.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

And the tarball starts....


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## RacerX780 (Mar 22, 2010)

KAP said:


> He can investigate all he wants... without a court order, you don't have to supply anything...
> 
> .


+1,000.

Do not provide him with any answers.... 

If this were to go to court, they might file a motion to get you to provide that info... which even then, you could refuse to answer... wait until the judge orders you to do so. 

Anyone can ask anything of anybody... it doesn't mean you have to provide the answers. 

Just from reading the thread - I think I would take the $4k, have them sign papers saying this concludes the entire matter from now until eternity, and be done with it. (I forget the exact wording - I'd have to look up my files) 

While it would suck that they would get away with this - I don't think I would want to deal with this for months on end. Too much stress. 

IMO.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah I know but don't forget I only get 2 of the 4 grand. That makes it hard to swallow. And i looked up the asset and liability guy that supposedly was hired to investigate and couldn't find anything. No company exist under that name no pi licenses no bbb accreditation nothing.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Look at me like a member of jury. 
Verdict - you are guilty of damaging owners property by insufficient temporary waterproofing. I’m not both by stories of phone falling in water and Mexican cutting yours tarp at purpose. You do not have case, no even close.
I do not know what will other jury members say, ask them.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

If you do work you are owed money. Period. When progress payments are not made, work ceases. Period. And for the last freckin time, this guy has never tried to blame me for ANY THING that was damaged in that flood. PERIOD. IF HE THOUGHT FOR A SECOND THAT HE COULD HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT, DONT YOU THINK HE WOULD HAVE!


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

It is what it is. Look at all the stuff he is billing me for, all this petty little crap, he has made ten accusations.

1. Repair work on 2 buildings I never worked on
2. Repair work on a chimney 2nd floor unit 3 floor building. Clearly not the roof.
3. Leak caused by missing tile on the mansard. I didn't work on the mansard
4. A tear his maintence staff caused when replacing an Hvac unit ironically they had to fill pitch PAN and the only time a pitch pan needs to be refilled is when you break the seal usually when you replace an HVAC unit.

Before he said it was 
1. Overcharge square footage. bull I have aireal measurements
2. A refund on items he did not pay for
3. A thermal image he ordered received and had explained to him, then decided he no longer needed once he had the information it contained
4. Tarp construction and removal he asked me to put up and signed a contract agreeing to the price. 

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE WORK I DID! Out of all that bullcrap he has ZERO PROBLEM with my roofs.

There has not been one leak in any of the buildings I put a new roof on. 

Even if there were, no payment rendered, no warranty exists.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Ooo. After all this time...silence..and suddenly the collections guy is calling me with some important info I have to hear about this case. Can't wait to hear what it is... lol


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

madrina said:


> Ooo. After all this time...silence..and suddenly the collections guy is calling me with some important info I have to hear about this case. Can't wait to hear what it is... lol


Maybe they found his body in a freezer?


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

madrina said:


> Ooo. After all this time...silence..and suddenly the collections guy is calling me with some important info I have to hear about this case. Can't wait to hear what it is... lol


Keep us updated and good luck.


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

RangoWA said:


> Maybe they found his body in a freezer?


They might soon.

Apparently he filed a lawsuit against me. The collections people want me to send then a letter saying I reject his $4000 offer. Do I have to do that? I need to terminate my contract with them. They are probably the ones who got him to sue me. Lol. I don't trust them at all. 

Time to go find an attorney.


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## JBBS (Jan 17, 2008)

Is Vericore one of the collections agencies involved by chance? I had the pleasure of dealing with them this year. My attorney promptly shoved their collection charges up their @$$.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## madrina (Feb 21, 2013)

Heeey jbbs! No that's not the one i used. But they are all one in the same. Lessons learned.


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