# Patching without tape?



## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

I have to patch a couple of cracks in the ceiling of a retail store. I just opened the purchase order and noticed it had a budget cap of $200. I can't do a proper job for that figure. This is a regular client who pays very well, but this is not the usual person that I deal with at their head office. So, A) I'm not going to tell them to go screw themselves and B) I not going to tape plaster and paint for $200. 

I'll call them tomorrow morning and explain, but if they say "we don't want it taped, just patch it up and paint, no one looks at the ceiling", I would like to at least make it the best I can. 

What would you suggest? Two coats of sheetrock 20 and hit the area with the matched colour...........................................................I can't believe I'm typing this. I can't do this for $200.

Okay, how about this: a skim coat of epoxy and a top coat of paint.


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## aWorkaHolic (Oct 1, 2007)

Have you even considered what the root cause of the cracking is?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I'd suggest mesh tape, 2 coats of 5 min setting compound and a hair dryer.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

I just "rescued" a friend today who tried to do his bathroom by himself. He used some weird self adhesive tape from HD with holes in it that didn't bond AND he used blue lid to "bed" it.

Moral of the story is I pulled out all of his crappy tape, laid in new paper tape in the corners, coated it and then skimmed the entire bathroom in about two hours thanks to EasySand 20 mixed with very hot water and my friend's new found talent at using a hair dryer.

He was good with the hair dryer--not so good with the tape and mud!!!

So...Easy Sand 5 or even 20 and give it three coats. I've found a cheapy heat gun (versus a hair dryer) works amazingly well at hardenin up EasySand.


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## shed-n-deck (Sep 25, 2007)

Use spray adhesive on the back side of your tape and the area of the ceiling, and one coat it with spackle. Don't warrant the work.


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## outsidethelines (Oct 19, 2007)

I came across a situation where the homeowner did not want to spend too much money and was not too concerned about the cracks, so I used a caulk called Big Stretch. A little water makes it smooth nicely, so keep that wet rag with you and just don't go too thin. It is not perfect, and it shows a little, but you won't see the crack anymore and big stretch seems to be good for a while. Mostly, you'll just see a smooth line where there used to be texture. I really believe that if you spackle those cracks without tape, they will be back in a few months. My theory is that the more flexable the longer it will last. Just make sure you explain to the customer what it will look like. I don't recommend doing this as a habit. 

Or, another thing you might want to consider is how much work this person has sent your way in the past and how worth it it would be to make an exception based on the hope of future business with him.


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## eagleandbaby (Oct 13, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> I'd suggest mesh tape, 2 coats of 5 min setting compound and a hair dryer.


 
This is the best advise. If you don't tape it the cracks will come back. Use a hair dryer or heat gun. Use as little quick set as possible so you dont spend allot of time sanding. 

We charge a minimum of $180.00 for a drywall patch in a wall no bigger than around 12sf. Ceiling work is always more.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Chris G said:


> I have to patch a couple of cracks in the ceiling of a retail store. I just opened the purchase order and noticed it had a budget cap of $200. I can't do a proper job for that figure. This is a regular client who pays very well, but this is not the usual person that I deal with at their head office. So, A) I'm not going to tell them to go screw themselves and B) I not going to tape plaster and paint for $200.
> I'll call them tomorrow morning and explain, but if they say "we don't want it taped, just patch it up and paint, no one looks at the ceiling", I would like to at least make it the best I can.
> What would you suggest? Two coats of sheetrock 20 and hit the area with the matched colour...........................................................I can't believe I'm typing this. I can't do this for $200.
> Okay, how about this: a skim coat of epoxy and a top coat of paint.


Don't know how long, or wide, or deep the "cracks" are.
Not to say that this is "good practice" or my preference.....but
I had a commercial customer with a rush job, complete fubar. L shaped top came in at 3pm day before they "had to have" the room "finished" for a big deal meeting. Long - short, top had to be cut into the drywall to fit, wound-up with @ 5/8 gap the height of the back splash both ends. Caulk took care of the little gap along the top, but 5/8"?? I filled it with 2 coats of DAP "Fast 'N Fill" (Red Devil makes the same stuff--think Arch called it micro balloons--it's the one that feels like an empty tub), touched up paint @ 2hr later. I figured I'd take care of it on punch later --- bottom line it's still there 5 years later, and I'm the only one that notices.:whistling


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Holy cow...I'm blown away by the responses. Thanks guys.

I won't get to it till the end of the week but I'll let you know how it turns out. Hot water and 20 with old heat gun sounds good. I also have some epoxy and jar of micro balloons as you call them, (I use the West System http://www.westsystem.com/) but I'm not sure about the dry times on it.

I'll take pix if I remember my camera.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

Mix the hot mud with the paint instead of water. Dont bother shutting off your truck or even putting on the parking break. You will be done in 20 mins


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Why would you use 20 min mud when 5 min mud is available? 5 min mud is considered patching compound. Be very aware that any residual moisture deep in the setting compound before you paint will cause your paint to eventually peal. 20 min mud means 400% longer drying time in a process that every minute counts. Not to slight you, but it never fails to amaze me how most people are their own worst enemies.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Why would you use 20 min mud when 5 min mud is available? 5 min mud is considered patching compound. Be very aware that any residual moisture deep in the setting compound before you paint will cause your paint to eventually peal. 20 min mud means 400% longer drying time in a process that every minute counts. Not to slight you, but it never fails to amaze me how most people are their own worst enemies.


I wold use 5 minute mud in heartbeat, but I've never seen it in Canada. The only way I know to get 5 minute mud is to use 20 with hot water.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Freak'n Americans are hordin' it all, I'd offer to trade you some for that good Canadian beer, but now they make your beer down here anyways


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

Chris G said:


> I have to patch a couple of cracks in the ceiling of a retail store. I just opened the purchase order and noticed it had a budget cap of $200.


Hey Chris,

I have found that maintenance companies pull that $100-$200 stunt all the time without even knowing what the work really entails. We have never had a problem doubling or tripling their figure after providing a detailed scope of work. 

If they won't budge then at least you got some good advice for asking. Hell I learned a few new tricks myself


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## Tmrrptr (Mar 22, 2007)

Finley is correct.
Too bad 5 min is not available for you.
Do not attempt to paint that 20 min 'til completely dry, 
usually next day... It does not seem to adhere as well as 5min.
If you try to paint while still wet it will suck off the lid
and be on your roller in chunks.
r


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## localtradesman (Oct 27, 2007)

*Drywall Guy Here....*

Hopefully the room is empty! Cut the crack out and clean it out. Fill the crack with 5 minute...pre fill in other words... Drop the room...tape off.... prep for paint.... now go back and 5 minute with paper tape....paint the ceiling.....apply twenty minute mud....mixed a little stiff or twenty minute won't dry in an hour all the way through....continue painting..... Apply finish coat and head to the nearest bar and come back in two hours..... Sand with a Radius 360 .....best on the planet.....Prime.....go for another drink to ease the pain..... Final coat it.....pack up and head to another bar to ease the misery of working for next to nothing.... Charge an extra 50 bucks for the next few jobs......or just tell him that you can't charge him such a low amount for this job....tell him its free for all the work he has given you in the past......:thumbsup:


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> Hey Chris,
> 
> I have found that maintenance companies pull that $100-$200 stunt all the time without even knowing what the work really entails. We have never had a problem doubling or tripling their figure after providing a detailed scope of work.
> 
> If they won't budge then at least you got some good advice for asking. Hell I learned a few new tricks myself


Thanks Jesse, your input is always a huge help. It's a junior maintenance coordinator I'm dealing with, so her boss may have only given her permission to authorize up to $200. Most maintenance coordinators I've dealt with have said they can authorize anything up to $500, beyond that it needs their supervisors' signature. 

And it's true, no one, (including me) knows what work the entails. I haven't been there yet and the head office has never seen it because they're 2000 miles away. Everyone is relying on some 18 year old teenager behind the counter to give a proper description:laughing: I've done 50 or so repairs for the chain this year, and it's always the same process. It's actually quite entertaining. 

Did I mention they want me to match paint colour? They have 200 stores all painted in the same colours and they can't find the colour codes :laughing: "That another trip for me guys, you could save yourself some money if you kept those codes on file"

I can't wait to see the cracks. I am so probably making a mountain out of a molehill.


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

Chris G said:


> Everyone is relying on some 18 year old teenager behind the counter to give a proper description:laughing: I've done 50 or so repairs for the chain this year, and it's always the same process. It's actually quite entertaining.


:laughing: Oh yes I have dealt with him/her also. :laughing: 




> Did I mention they want me to match paint colour? They have 200 stores all painted in the same colours and they can't find the colour codes :laughing: "That another trip for me guys, you could save yourself some money if you kept those codes on file"


Great point on the paint. We also save the specs for tile and bathroom partition hardware - but they are in my files not theirs  let the next guy figure it out like I had to if the don't call me for the project.


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## mj300 (Oct 30, 2007)

:thumbup:hello


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

The offending cracks! Apparently someone was a little rough with the access panel.

I cut out the junk, mixed up some 20 with hot water, filled and taped, then walked around the mall for 20 minutes. I forgot to bring my heat gun:whistling. When I got back it wasn't dry enough,(I guess the water wasn't that hot:laughing

Said I'd be back tomorrow. A thin second coat should dry quicker. Fast prime and top coat, (or two), should do it. 

I'll just explain to them that it will cost a little more. 

This is the biggest thread about the tiniest repair I've seen.

I would have liked to try out some of the other methods mentioned though..


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