# Sump pump



## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Yep, the multi talented SS also does pump installations and service 

This customer complained of loud banging and vibration when the pump kicks off and this particular one runs quite a bit,...that's actually an understatement if I may add as I observed it running once a minute when I was there to inspect it after recent rainfalls. 

Needless to say, the existing installation is a little sloppy and the pipe is strapped haphazardly causing a lot of movement when the check valve slams shut.

Just recommended we change it out with a fresh, quieter unit and change out those hangers that are rubbing on the joist. Also provided a klunkless check valve on this install just to be safe.

Pipe run goes underground to a large dry well so the configuration will remain the same.

Wasn't even raining today and this sucker was going off every four minutes 

Usually I'll just set the pump up at the shop, check valve, union and drill the weep so shes ready to drop in when I get to the job. 

In and out on these calls :thumbup:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

For those who like specifics,... Little Giant 6EN-CIA-SFS sump/effluent pump, 3000 [email protected] 5ft lift, 22ft max, Watchdog klunkless check valve and I always stick a union inline for easy removal.

I isolated the hanger bases with rubber and the first time she sang, it was music to my ears. Very quite music that is. 

Customer called me when she got home and loves the new the sound - probably even get some sleep tonight she said :thumbup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

superseal said:


> ...Customer called me when she got home and loves the new the sound - probably even get some sleep tonight she said :thumbup:


Hope your "customer" isn't your wife hoping to sleep tonight...:whistling


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Why on earth would anyone put the check valve as high up as that old one is??


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

mstrat said:


> Why on earth would anyone put the check valve as high up as that old one is??


First thing I mentioned to her and she swears she called a master plumber who installed the pump.

I'm thinking he was just too old to bend down anymore :laughing:

Yes, a high check valve will cause excessive cycling and premature pump failure so it's hard for me to understand as well :thumbsup:


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Install the check on a 45° angle and it will never make a sound.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I like those hangers.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Does these check valves hold the water in the remaining vertical pipe? I thought they slowly bleed enough to relieve pressure but prevent the short cycling. Is that the case?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Tom M said:


> Does these check valves hold the water in the remaining vertical pipe? I thought they slowly bleed enough to relieve pressure but prevent the short cycling. Is that the case?


Yes, a properly working check valve should seal tight so water always remains in the vertical pipe above. A simple tap of the fingernail on PVC and you can tell if its holding water or empty.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

superseal said:


> Yes, a properly working check valve should seal tight so water always remains in the vertical pipe above. A simple tap of the fingernail on PVC and you can tell if its holding water or empty.


Why not put the check valve outside of the pit?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Why not put the check valve outside of the pit?


just makes sense to keep it low as possible,...less back flow.

Some guys I know attach it right to the pump/male adapter. I like to leave a little room so my air lock relief hole stays above float level.


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## Widdershins (Dec 29, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> Why not put the check valve outside of the pit?


It really should be installed outside of the ejector bucket to facilitate maintenance and replacement.

A Plumbing inspector would fail this installation if it was permitted and inspected.


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## Widdershins (Dec 29, 2013)

superseal said:


> Yep, the multi talented SS also does pump installations and service
> 
> This customer complained of loud banging and vibration when the pump kicks off and this particular one runs quite a bit,...that's actually an understatement if I may add as I observed it running once a minute when I was there to inspect it after recent rainfalls.
> 
> ...


Are you allowed to pump groundwater into the Sanitary Sewer or Storm Sewer? It's been my experience that pumping into a drywell just returns the water to the ejector pit in a matter of hours.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> It really should be installed outside of the ejector bucket to facilitate maintenance and replacement.
> 
> A Plumbing inspector would fail this installation if it was permitted and inspected.


I only mentioned it because I installed a new one last month and the directions on the pack the check valve came in said to put it outside.

School of rtfm strikes again.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Widdershins said:


> It really should be installed outside of the ejector bucket to facilitate maintenance and replacement.
> 
> A Plumbing inspector would fail this installation if it was permitted and inspected.


I've never been failed an inspection in my life on a sump pump configured this way and I've done hundreds for the local housing authority all under permit.

Doesn't make sense to me from a maintenance stand point either given the crock lid is always removed during a maintenance call. The union however, always gets install above the crock

In terms of discharge, not legal around here to discharge storm water into sanitary or street. All new homes must have stamped plans for retention/seepage pits to retain all storm water from downspouts, storm drains, etc...


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I guess I should mention retrofits on existing homes don't need retention pits,...the general rule is no more than 3 ells on the discharge pipe and exiting a min. of 10 ft from the property so as to not flood other properties.

Not a perfect world however and we do get some complaints on very active pumps.

One inspector made me move the discharge pipe on one problem job we had 3 times due to excessive discharge. On the third move, water still found it's way to the sidewalk and street and was literally welding car tires to the road during the winter months. 

Finally the town gave up dealing with all the complaints and spent nearly 250K on street drainage and located the discharge pipe directly through a new street inlet which tied into the closest storm sewer approx 300 ft away.

True story I swear :thumbup:


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## Widdershins (Dec 29, 2013)

superseal said:


> I've never been failed an inspection in my life on a sump pump configured this way and I've done hundreds for the local housing authority all under permit.


Groundwater dispersal probably doesn't fall under Plumbing in your neck of the woods.



> Doesn't make sense to me from a maintenance stand point either given the crock lid is always removed during a maintenance call. The union however, always gets install above the crock.


 It's pretty rare that I remove the lid of the vessel unless it's a pump call -- Then again I'm mostly dealing with Zoeller cast iron effluent pumps (which are pretty much bulletproof) on sewage ejection systems.



> In terms of discharge, not legal around here to discharge storm water into sanitary or street. All new homes must have stamped plans for retention/seepage pits to retain all storm water from downspouts, storm drains, etc...


Your treatment plants probably don't have the capacity for groundwater. Ours don't either. When possible we pump it to the Storm Sewer system -- If that isn't possible it's suppose to daylight out to the street. I recognize of course that daylighting out to the street isn't recommended in areas of the country where winters are extreme.

Your installation is a damned sight better than the original. I do have one suggestion, though. You might want to consider installing a solvent weld full port ball valve just above your union. Doing so will allow you to service the pump or check valve w/out having to drain down the water in the vertical riser.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Your suggestion is valid and I normally do on heads greater than 10 ft.

Maybe I'll make it a standard...thanks again!


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

superseal said:


> Your suggestion is valid and I normally do on heads greater than 10 ft.
> 
> Maybe I'll make it a standard...thanks again!


You can buy PVC combination check and ball valve that glue right on, they have a built in union on them.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> You can buy PVC combination check and ball valve that glue right on, they have a built in union on them.


I'll have to look those up,...thanks!


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