# fuel



## raydlr (Mar 23, 2012)

With fuel prices going up its getting a bit costly traveling up and down to job sites..... Big headache is when the employee asks for the employer for fuel to travel to and from work..... What to do?


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

If you want to be nice split the cost with them. If you want to be an A hole fire them. If it is a long commute I would throw them a bone if they are worth it.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Let them ride in the company trucks. If they want to drive themselves that's on them. If the company requires them to drive their own vehicle then that's a negotiation point.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I've been on the short end of that stick, and it sucked. Build a fuel allowance into your bid and give the guys enough to compensate. If you don't, you are lowering their pay through no fault of their own.


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## Contractor Joe (Sep 28, 2011)

raydlr said:


> With fuel prices going up its getting a bit costly traveling up and down to job sites..... Big headache is when the employee asks for the employer for fuel to travel to and from work..... What to do?


Really just depends on how good the worker is.. If he is a stud and worth it, it might be in your best interest to keep him enticed by either splitting it with him or paying... Your call.


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## Diablo View (Apr 10, 2011)

I let one of my guys fill his tank once every 2 weeks. I get the write off and it keeps money in his pocket. He appreciates it and I appreciate his hard work so we are both happy.
He never asked for gas money I just gave it to him. 

One of my other guys asked for gas money and he was soon replaced .Go figure


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## Durn210 (Jan 2, 2009)

I had to downsize my truck from a 3/4 to a half ton, and both my employees have trucks that get lousy mileage so some personal responsibility is necessary for them. They can buddy up but they would have to make the time allowances so maybe a sit down with all employees would be a good idea to discuss options rather than supplying gas without question. Offer some bonus time to compensate.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

I make my boss anywhere from one to two grand profit in a five day work week, not too mention (tooting own horn) I leave the customers with a condifident smile on their face, something he has not had with any other employee in his 7 years as a business owner.

He had better pay for my gas. He does. One tank a week, no questions asked.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Durn210 said:


> I had to downsize my truck from a 3/4 to a half ton


guess you're raking in the cash on the big savings with that decision :thumbsup:


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I have always had my help ride with me, plus I have a ranger so I get about 20 to 25 miles to a gallon, plus I have to drive 60mph to get that saving in gas. But when it comes to help it's good to give them a couple bucks for gas.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I pay pretty decent wages

I pulled the union agreement and modified it slightly, more fair I think

It reads employee must drive X miles from city hall, pay is so much per mile after that. I changed it to X miles from their house, everyone seems happy so far...and Canada is about $ 1.00/gal. more than the US currently


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## oaks renovation (Jun 16, 2007)

My guys meet me at my shop and we all ride together to take advantage of the HOV lanes, saves me time and my guys money. If we need to split and its a long haul for them I will pay for gas.

I like the idea of paying for a tank of gas for them and taking a write off.:thumbsup:


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## Noprofit Ltd. (Aug 31, 2011)

oaks renovation said:


> My guys meet me at my shop and we all ride together to take advantage of the HOV lanes, saves me time and my guys money. If we need to split and its a long haul for them I will pay for gas.
> 
> I like the idea of paying for a tank of gas for them and taking a write off.:thumbsup:


Isn't that fraud?


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

Noprofit Ltd. said:


> Isn't that fraud?


I don't know if it's fraud, but it's not the way it's supposed to be recorded.

The standard mileage rate would probably offset the gas price if the employee is required to use the vehicle. Record keeping is the real issue.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Doc Holliday said:


> I make my boss anywhere from one to two grand profit in a five day work week, not too mention (tooting own horn) I leave the customers with a condifident smile on their face, something he has not had with any other employee in his 7 years as a business owner.
> 
> He had better pay for my gas. He does. One tank a week, no questions asked.


Well, he used to pay for my gas. I quit today.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Doc Holliday said:


> Well, he used to pay for my gas. I quit today.


Why did he reverse himself?


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

jb4211 said:


> Why did he reverse himself?


Got your reading glasses on?
No, he didn't pay me this weekend. I talked to him yesterday right after my power steering pump went out and asked him to wire me some money. Turns out he needed to "cash a check" to be able to do so. Say what? Where's all the money, the tens of thousands you have been making? Oh that's right, your drunk as pshycotic wife who fired me a few months ago stole it all, again. 

Regardless, he said it would have to wait until this morning and now, expectedly, he won't answer his phone. 

Not the first time he's done this. 

I've never stolen a dime from this jackass yet I know for fact he has from me. I've tried to turn the other cheek but this is just old. I've sold many jobs of which in the end when I asked about them he said the customer didn't want to do. Well guess who has those customer's phone numbers? I've called said customers and my boss was at their home right then and there doing the job. I've called other ones, following up and the jobs, trying to sell them for certain and they've told me that my company has already done the job, even named my boss as one of the guys at their home when it was being done. 

We're talking thousands of dollars.

Again, I've said nothing of it to my boss, just swallowed it and kept going as I still have been making decent money but enough is enough. I'm in my prime and damn good at what I do. I don't need to be screwing around any longer with a small time mom and pop show who lie and steal from their own employees. 

I left one final messege this morning, telling him I quit, that I'm tired of the **** and I've had enough.

Jackass still hasn't called back.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

It's actually sickening how easily he believes himself. I'll ask about a job,what happend to it and that I want to follow up on it and he'll go on a rant about how no one wants to spend money or how no, it wasn't him or our company that did the job and yet I always find out it most certainly was. I track down every aspect of the job, from the purchase orders, dates, even to who called it in to the exact amount paid. And sure enough, it's always to my company. 

But, no, it wasn't him or no, no one wants to spend money. 

Screw that, I'm done. I've turned down four job offers in the past two weeks as things were going good or so I thought. And me being the nice guy knew my boss has no other help, none who knows what in the hell they're doing at least. 

I'm still employed sub contract for another company who is keeping me somehwhat busy so money is still coming in. I'll be good.

Rant over.


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## Diablo View (Apr 10, 2011)

Noprofit Ltd. said:


> Isn't that fraud?


So you are 100% honest on every write off and every dollar earned ?
As we all are :laughing:


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## Noprofit Ltd. (Aug 31, 2011)

Diablo View said:


> So you are 100% honest on every write off and every dollar earned ?
> As we all are :laughing:


Actually, I am. I don't make enough to even need to cheat. Hence, the name. I've done a few jobs where my gas bill was higher than my profit! Recessions suck...but I'd rather keep my chops up than sit at home .


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

If a guy has a truck that he is willing to occasionally carry stuff for me, he got paid extra. I would have him pick something up maybe once a month and I would pay him an extra $1/hour. Of course that's when gas was cheap, today it would be an extra $2.50/hour. 

Saving a buck or two an hour on good employees is just dumb.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Noprofit Ltd. said:


> Actually, I am. I don't make enough to even need to cheat. Hence, the name. I've done a few jobs where my gas bill was higher than my profit! Recessions suck...but I'd rather keep my chops up than sit at home .


Odd, id rather go poor sitting at home then by working on a job site.


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## Noprofit Ltd. (Aug 31, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Odd, id rather go poor sitting at home then by working on a job site.


Work skills are like anything, use it or lose it. Plus, you keep in shape, which is important. You get the aches and pains not from the work, but stopping .


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Noprofit Ltd. said:


> Work skills are like anything, use it or lose it. Plus, you keep in shape, which is important. You get the aches and pains not from the work, but stopping .


And all your referrals expect you to work for next to nothing... Bad idea, you're hurting yourself and others in the industry.


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## shelf guy (Mar 18, 2007)

I will give my guys an extra $20 here and there, as well as buy their lunch half the time. My main guy drives 30 miles each way to my shop every day. I dont mind helping him out, as much as he has helped me out.


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## Noprofit Ltd. (Aug 31, 2011)

RobertCDF said:


> And all your referrals expect you to work for next to nothing... Bad idea, you're hurting yourself and others in the industry.


No, hurting myself is selling my vehicle and tools instead of making a few bucks on a job , so I can pay the rent. Then I'm screwed. At least when the economy picks up again , I will have stayed afloat on my own , kept all my tools, and am still in shape and ready to make better money, along with everyone else.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Noprofit Ltd. said:


> No, hurting myself is selling my vehicle and tools instead of making a few bucks on a job , so I can pay the rent. Then I'm screwed. At least when the economy picks up again , I will have stayed afloat on my own , kept all my tools, and am still in shape and ready to make better money, along with everyone else.


And when all your customers keep saying "But you only charged John and Susan $85 for that repair, why are you trying to rip us off for $110?" 

If you don't make money on a job how are you paying rent? You even said gas was MORE than profit. Sounds to me like you should find a job (rarely do you lose money when you're an employee) till the economy recovers.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Doc, if you love what you do and love going to work everyday, it's not work.

It seems more and more business owners are becoming A-Holes for one reason: greed. I hope I never drink that kool aide, I honestly do. I'd rather struggle and live paycheck-to-paycheck then become the type of person that would step on the heads of "friends" just to get ahead.

I admire your courage and hope everything works out. They say as one door closes another opens.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Last month I had a damn near nervous breakdown, no work and didn't want to be like my boss. Now I know I'm sifferent, better than that, like yourself.
The world is our oyster to cook and eat at our convenience.
Thanks bud.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Shame on us for being able make some money to stash away. Shame on us.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Doc Holliday said:


> I make my boss anywhere from one to two grand profit in a five day work week, not too mention (tooting own horn) I leave the customers with a condifident smile on their face, something he has not had with any other employee in his 7 years as a business owner.
> 
> He had better pay for my gas. He does. One tank a week, no questions asked.


Unless you are doing all the behind the scenes work, and risking your neck and your livelihood your reputation, you aren't making him nearly what you think. Unless it was discussed and agreed upon there is not "better" anything. You are replaceable. :thumbsup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

jb4211 said:


> Doc, if you love what you do and love going to work everyday, it's not work.
> 
> It seems more and more business owners are becoming A-Holes for one reason: greed. I hope I never drink that kool aide, I honestly do. I'd rather struggle and live paycheck-to-paycheck then become the type of person that would step on the heads of "friends" just to get ahead.
> 
> I admire your courage and hope everything works out. They say as one door closes another opens.


I don't think it's greed, you do realize the cost of everything is going up. It is costing me more today to make the dollar I bid out two months ago.

A little more empathy for those of us who are keeping our nose to the grind stone and sacrificing our family time so others can show up M-F 8-4 and collect a pay check.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

If you do not want to pay for the extra gas/fuel for jobs further away at least offer them free lunch. You may find free lunches are cheaper than paying everyone gas/fuel and at least they will feel some incentive to come to that job.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

My understanding is that an employee can claim mileage on their taxes if the location to the job is further than the location to the office.

Basically if the office is 10 miles from the employees home and the job is 20 miles away, they can claim 10 miles or each way.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Unless you are doing all the behind the scenes work, and risking your neck and your livelihood your reputation, you aren't making him nearly what you think. Unless it was discussed and agreed upon there is not "better" anything. You are replaceable. :thumbsup:


As is he. Try me and see who's better, of which I meant I'm honest and damn good. He or no one holds a candle to me uless I let them. This trade is full of impotence when it require at the least Viagra's equivelence.Guess my testosterone level?


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Unless you are doing all the behind the scenes work, and risking your neck and your livelihood your reputation, you aren't making him nearly what you think. Unless it was discussed and agreed upon there is not "better" anything. You are replaceable. :thumbsup:


And yes, I am msking him even more than I or you know.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Bud, this isn't hourly framer work which I can also as I have done with my eyes wide shut. This is a daily spreadsheet of science and commision and like I've said, I'm good in all areas. I make him lots of money while earning the company respect of which it hasn't had much of prior, ever.


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## Noprofit Ltd. (Aug 31, 2011)

RobertCDF said:


> And when all your customers keep saying "But you only charged John and Susan $85 for that repair, why are you trying to rip us off for $110?"
> 
> If you don't make money on a job how are you paying rent? You even said gas was MORE than profit. Sounds to me like you should find a job (rarely do you lose money when you're an employee) till the economy recovers.


Never said I wasn't making a profit, just said gas to do one cost as much. That profit equals what I would make working for someone else, almost. I am in Canada, gas is more up here. If I was an employee , what would I say for references? Been self employed the last 5 years? Yeah, employers love that, someone who will split as soon as you find something better. Do I just pull up to a job with a van full of tools and ask to be an employee??? Right. Use some common sense....

As far as referrals, I always offer them, but no one ever makes the calls.. I show them pics of my work and 90% of the time I get the work based on that alone . Not happy at just getting by, but I make my own hours and am INDEPENDENT. What don't kill you makes you stronger...


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## Noprofit Ltd. (Aug 31, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> My understanding is that an employee can claim mileage on their taxes if the location to the job is further than the location to the office.
> 
> Basically if the office is 10 miles from the employees home and the job is 20 miles away, they can claim 10 miles or each way.


That's right! That's why the employer shouldn't be able to claim it.... Fraud.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

If the employer pays for gas, the employee has a different rate that they are aloud to claim. If the employee gets gas money and still claims the full mileage rate, they are the ones committing fraud not the employer.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Tech Dawg said:


> That was mean... :blink:


The dood asked for it and like I already knew what was coming, his true colors came flying out, all name calling like a, well, little girl. And I'm going to"invest" in that? If he thinks I have one iota of respect for him after that well he's got another thing coming. He can kiss my you know what where the sun don't shine. Him, his house, his wife, his nice truck, his company and his five employees. Collectively, that's a lot of butt kissing. 

Anyways, I had my fun last night. It's over.


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Seems we got a bit carried away in here last night.:blink:

Lets keep in non-personal, guys. 

I won't send any warnings yet, but if it carries on, there will be some PMs sent.


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## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

I understand and in all honesty I wanted to apologize to everyone else who had to read that. It was fun, don't get me wrong, but I'm done with it.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Well I just dropped $92 on 23 gallons.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

$41 for filling up a ford Escort.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

100$ for about 20....$1.32 a liter.


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## Dmitry (Aug 23, 2010)

I park my truck with tools on the jobsite and commute in my Civic, that's about 30$ a week.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Dmitry said:


> I park my truck with tools on the jobsite and commute in my Civic, that's about 30$ a week.


My customers would throw a fit if we parked our trucks and left them in their driveway during the job.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

shanekw1 said:


> Seems we got a bit carried away in here last night.:blink:
> 
> Lets keep in non-personal, guys.
> 
> I won't send any warnings yet, but if it carries on, there will be some PMs sent.


All I can think of was this:






when I read your post. Your Avatar is awesome!


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Ford ranger. 70$$


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Deal with it. Good grief. If you can't afford extra gas, don't go gallivanting around.


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## Dmitry (Aug 23, 2010)

BamBamm5144 said:


> My customers would throw a fit if we parked our trucks and left them in their driveway during the job.


It's mostly new construction so there is plenty space, when it's addition there is usually a spot for my van with tools.
Employees have no reason to have gas guzzlers and they usually don't.


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

I would tell them to move closer to work.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

I make my employee buy gas for my work truck.

And pay for oil changes every 5000 miles.

He buys my lunch on Wednesdays.

And a six pack every Friday.







Not really, but it makes about as much sense as the rest of this thread.
Employee drives to shop, takes company truck from here.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> I make my employee buy gas for my work truck.
> 
> And pay for oil changes every 5000 miles.
> 
> ...


 :laughing::laughing:


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

Dmitry said:


> It's mostly new construction so there is plenty space, when it's addition there is usually a spot for my van with tools.
> Employees have no reason to have gas guzzlers and they usually don't.


I remember a trim carpenter that parked his van right in the garage on the condos we framed. Out of site and no walking in the snow to get tools.


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## MSLiechty (Sep 13, 2010)

how far are we considering? Most of our installers have a 50-80 mile drive each way. did a muvico theater 2 years ago and it was 90 miles each way, had 8 guys on it no one got free fuel, they just all carpooled.


ML


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

i pay mileage if it is 1 mile from the shop. They drive to the shop, then they are paid from that point on. till they get back at night


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> i pay mileage if it is 1 mile from the shop. They drive to the shop, then they are paid from that point on. till they get back at night


That's the way the government makes us do it, and if they are going directly to a job site you pay the mileage over X, X being the distance from their primary residence to the shop.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I didn't read all the threads here. If I'm doing an out of town job should I charge half my travel time, (one way) plus a miliage fee for the vehicle? And if so, how much per Km?

Right now I just charge from the time I leave home until the time I leave the job. That more than covers my fuel, but not much for the wear and tear on the truck, let alone my time.

Thanks.


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

I pay mileage and hourly time at full rate from when they leave the shop to the job. If they go straight home after work, I just pay the mileage, if they are coming back to the shop I pay hourly as well. If we are way out of town 100m+ I pay mileage and the cost of a hotel for the night 75$, if they want to go home and drive back in the am it’s on them. Then I pay mileage and drive time for the last return trip.

Drive time if they are the on freeway can come out to close to $70 when all mileage is factored in.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> I didn't read all the threads here. If I'm doing an out of town job should I charge half my travel time, (one way) plus a miliage fee for the vehicle? And if so, how much per Km?
> 
> Right now I just charge from the time I leave home until the time I leave the job. That more than covers my fuel, but not much for the wear and tear on the truck, let alone my time.
> 
> Thanks.


You can charge whatever you want, it's your business.

If you have an employee pay him the tax rate:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/pyrll/bnfts/tmbl/llwnc/rts-eng.html


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

I don’t know what the mileage rate is ca is always fiddling with it somewhere round $.57 mile. Acct takes care of it guys just submit record.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Drive time if they are the on freeway can come out to close to $70 when all mileage is factored in.


Yup, great if you are an employee driving a smart car!


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

true, i try to keep my guys close to home. If not i add it to the bill.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks guys. I've got a project that's a 2 hr. drive. I have just been charging for the 2 hrs (that's one way). I'm not so sure the client will be receptive to me also charging for miliage.

It's 120 km. at $ .50 /km. that's another $60. one way. I feel I should be charging it but.........

If I'm the customer - "what? I have to pay for you to sit in your truck driving for two hours, plus a miliage charge? "

Just looking for opinions, thanks.


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

its your choice on how to handle it, i dont. All our bids are fixed, they never see the breakdown. It is just worked into overhead, and job cost.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Thanks guys. I've got a project that's a 2 hr. drive. I have just been charging for the 2 hrs (that's one way). I'm not so sure the client will be receptive to me also charging for miliage.
> 
> It's 120 km. at $ .50 /km. that's another $60. one way. I feel I should be charging it but.........
> 
> ...


I put a line item for "drive time" which is labor rate + 15 bucks...but I rarely work outside of town...just for jobs at client's cottages and such.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

katoman said:


> If I'm doing an out of town job should I charge half my travel time, (one way) plus a miliage fee for the vehicle? And if so, how much per Km?


That's a pricing question. Whack!

Answers can be all over the map. Service guys usually have a minimum charge that covers travel plus X time on site. 

It's a little more complex for folks like us, even working T&M as you do. I know guys who charge their time from leaving the shop until returning. Others charge one way. I don't know anyone who specifically bills for mileage.

It still comes back to simple math--what it's costing you vs what you need to make.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks Tin. I didn't mean it as a pricing question. I know the going rate up here is about $.50 / km. 

I agree, it's whatever you can get for it. Just trying to balance between getting what I should be getting vs the customer freaking out on me. :laughing:

I'll probably leave it the way it is.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

katoman said:


> Just trying to balance between getting what I should be getting vs the customer freaking out on me. :laughing:


I do know what you mean. I wrestle the same bear all the time.

Working locally, my hourly rate gives me enough cushion (usually) to skip billing for the commute altogether. If the job is well out of my normal area, I'll dicker with the client for either a fixed trip charge per day or a higher hourly rate. They usually go with the fixed charge.


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