# Need advice on collecting payment for labor



## Flooring Wife (Apr 18, 2011)

Hello everyone!

I am looking for some suggestions or advice. Here is my problem:

We are a floor covering tile setters. Subcontractor! I got a call from my employer to handle a basic removal and floor installation. Given a strict deadline that involved working 24 hour days. During the demo process, we discovered concrete floor was uneven etc. This was mentioned to my employer who said, " do the best you can". So on I went with my work. 

Finally job was completed, the GC on site NEVER once complained, or said anything was wrong with my work. On the contrary he also kept pushing to continue so we could ensure to meet the deadline. At the completion of this project, the GC SIGNED OFF on the completed work form with no additional comments, concerns, questions nothing!

Now my employer is refusing to pay me stating that the original customer (ABC company) is not pleased with the work saying "bad tile job" too much lippage. Employer has now made a decision without even talking to me, to replace entire job.

My questions is this:

How can I escalate and pursue this so that I can collect what I am owed. 


If anyone has been in a similar situation or has any advice they want to share I would appreciate it! 


THank you!


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

What does your contract say? Did you get anything signed where you indicated that the floor wasn't level and there would be lippage? 

If you took the job without signing a sub contractor agreement outlining the scope of the project, nothing in writing that in your expert opinion the sub floor needed some attention or there would be lippage - and got it signed by the GC to "do the best you can,".... then you are SOL.

If there is too much lippage.... then it _*IS*_ a BAD tile job and needs to be re-done. And you won't have a leg to stand on in front of the judge, because you have nothing in writting. All he sees are pictures of a bad tile job. Nothing in writing where you were told to proceed without making the necessary repairs to the sub floor first.

Good luck collecting a dime on this one. Call it a lesson learned.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

Follow up.... the completion certificate (I'm assuming you have a copy) might help you a little bit, but not much IMHO. All it probably says is the date the job was completed and the fact that it was completed. Likely not much more.... I suppose you could argue that if they weren't happy, they shouldn't have signed off on the thing, but I still don't think you have much of a leg to stand on with this one. The pics of all the lippage are gonna doom you I think.


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## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

What is lippage?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

The contractor should have all aspects of the job written within. That way, there is no doubt to whether a contract was successfully fulfilled or not.

For each trade, there should be a scope of work sheet. For example, here's what I have for my drywall guy:
"All drywall work will be expected to be to no less than The Gypsum Association GA 214-90 level 4 finish"

For tile, I like to use TCNA methods for each job I perform. When there is an exact specification listed, it's kind of hard to dispute the results. Either they are within spec or they're not.

Unless you have some kind of contract or specification sheet you were to follow, you are kind of left out to dry. Maybe threaten with legal action to see what the come back is.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

rjconstructs said:


> What is lippage?


The height difference between two installed tiles. The higher tile creates a "lip".


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

When I was a tile guy back in the day I had one gc that would slide a credit card around the floor checking for lippage. What a dik


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## Flooring Wife (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks for the picture angus. It gave me an idea. 
I should have mentioned that my employer called me and gave me an address where to start the job. That is it, there is no paperwork on this. Nowhere does it give specifications of any kind. I do have a contract with my employer regarding errors and it clearly says that both parties (him and myself) will reach a mutual agreement regarding repairs or replacements. In this case he never once gave me a chance to complete a punch list or fix anything further. I think I may need to hire a lawyer on this one!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

My buddy Mike could collect it....


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

employer pays you period!!!, at least min wage and over time past 40hrs that is the law!, now are you a subcontractor or employee ?, as a subcontractor you have no employer, if and how you get paid depends on your status. contractor=contract ?.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

sunkist said:


> employer pays you period!!!, at least min wage and over time past 40hrs that is the law!, now are you a subcontractor or employee ?, as a subcontractor you have no employer, if and how you get paid depends on your status. contractor=contract ?.


He said in the very first post that he was a subcontractor....


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

School of hard knocks. Bet you'll never do that again.

Sorry

Good luck


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Flooring Wife said:


> ...there is no paperwork on this. Nowhere does it give specifications of any kind. I do have a contract with my employer regarding errors and it clearly says that both parties (him and myself) will reach a mutual agreement regarding repairs or replacements. In this case he never once gave me a chance to complete a punch list or fix anything further. I think I may need to hire a lawyer on this one!


I feel bad that this has happened...BUT....maybe a few tips on contracts and scope of work might be in order before you do any more work as a subcontractor.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> When I was a tile guy back in the day I had one gc that would slide a credit card around the floor checking for lippage. What a dik


Hey now....:whistling


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Kidding. Kidding.

I do check drywall with a straight edge and work lights......


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## Flooring Wife (Apr 18, 2011)

angus242 said:


> The contractor should have all aspects of the job written within. That way, there is no doubt to whether a contract was successfully fulfilled or not.
> 
> For each trade, there should be a scope of work sheet. For example, here's what I have for my drywall guy:
> "All drywall work will be expected to be to no less than The Gypsum Association GA 214-90 level 4 finish"
> ...



:thumbup:
Is there a specifications book or manual for floor, tile coverings. It would be nice to have just for my records, something that could stand in court.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

So, op....are you an *EMPLOYEE* or a *SUBCONTRACTOR*? You keep mentioning *"my employer"*...normally you'd be talking about a *GC* if you were a *subcontractor*.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

J F said:


> So, op....are you an *EMPLOYEE* or a *SUBCONTRACTOR*? You keep mentioning *"my employer"*...normally you'd be talking about a *GC* if you were a *subcontractor*.


Yeah I'm confused subcontractors don't typically have employers...

How bad was the job? Got pics?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I got pics of "lippage", let's all be thankful I restrained myself from posting them. :laughing:


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Flooring Wife said:


> Is there a specifications book or manual for floor, tile coverings


TCNA is the bible for tile setting. 


> The 2011 TCNA Handbook for Ceramic, Glass, and Stone Tile Installation is a guide to assist in clarifying and standardizing installation specifications for tile. Each installation recommendation, or method, requires a properly designed, constructed, and prepared substructure using materials and construction techniques that meet nationally recognized material and construction standards.


http://www.tileusa.com/publication_main.htm


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

J F said:


> So, op....are you an *EMPLOYEE* or a *SUBCONTRACTOR*? You keep mentioning *"my employer"*...normally you'd be talking about a *GC* if you were a *subcontractor*.


The OP seems to be avoiding the question.


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

CompleteW&D said:


> He said in the very first post that he was a subcontractor....


he all so says employer in his first post!, he can not be both!, but this poor guy is geting 1099'd?, and does not know the difference?, lets see up coming posts.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> When I was a tile guy back in the day I had one gc that would slide a credit card around the floor checking for lippage. What a dik


Thanks for the idea! :thumbup:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

jhark123 said:


> Thanks for the idea! :thumbup:


No problem. You will get what he got, a bill high enough to assure the job paid enough to Garuntee there was no lippage to the 64 th.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

I had a GC come in and take his boots off and slide his feet around as he walked on the tile. We always said" Here comes the mummy!"


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

If it's a bathroom, some lippage is acceptable. Gives the bare feet something to hang on to.


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## Ethos (Feb 21, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Kidding. Kidding.
> 
> I do check drywall with a straight edge and work lights......


My self test is my 2' cast iron aluminum level. It has hard corners on it, so if I can't freely slide it from one tile to the next, it's too much lip and I have to adjust.

I'm really wanting to get a set of those Tuscan levelers to try out for my next big tile job.


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## jcmconst (Apr 7, 2009)

Sorry, but i just disagree with everyone here, i think you have to react much faster when someone say "do the best you can"


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## jcmconst (Apr 7, 2009)

I mean, you have to say "ok, i will do my best but there are some extra work involved, will you pay me for it?" and then is your choice according his response, you can add that for free just to save your reputation or you can quit and let someone else deal with the issue. I m telling you what i would do or better what have i done my whole life (28 years on bussines). How big is the loss? I mean if the GC didn t give u tha chance to fix it or discuss about it should be a small job, im guessing. If it was a big one sorry for you, but things get worse when GC call someone to replace what you ve done. Good luck


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