# client wants to see labor and material costs



## birdog (May 15, 2006)

I just gave a bid for a exterior repaint job. Power wash,prep,2coats siding and trim,shutters front door, there will be 3 colors. This is a ranch house level ground,I will be using SW Duration on siding and trim and SW Super paint on the front door and shutters.The HO called and wants a break down of labor costs and material costs. He said you'll be there 2-3days and I replied no it would likely be 3.5 to 4. The house is about 2200 sp ft. I bid 3,200. I've never had anybody ask me to break a bid down. Have you guys ever had this happen to you? Should I just give it to him or say I see no reason to break it down this is the price take it or not. $3,199 for mat and $1 for labor HaHa. Just joking I would'nt be this brash with a client. ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS.


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

birdog said:


> I just gave a bid for a exterior repaint job. Power wash,prep,2coats siding and trim,shutters front door, there will be 3 colors. This is a ranch house level ground,I will be using SW Duration on siding and trim and SW Super paint on the front door and shutters.The HO called and wants a break down of labor costs and material costs. He said you'll be there 2-3days and I replied no it would likely be 3.5 to 4. The house is about 2200 sp ft. I bid 3,200. I've never had anybody ask me to break a bid down. Have you guys ever had this happen to you? Should I just give it to him or say I see no reason to break it down this is the price take it or not. $3,199 for mat and $1 for labor HaHa. Just joking I would'nt be this brash with a client. ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS.


Wants to see how much you are making

Tell him to get lost. It's a sign of worse things to come


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

He's gonna start nickel and diming you...I like your reply: $1.00 labour, go for it. Really, it's none of his business what you're making, give him the price and that's it.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

birdog said:


> $3,199 for mat and $1 for labor HaHa. Just joking I would'nt be this brash with a client. ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS.


um ok ... so he says "great - i'll go buy you the materials and pay you $1 for labor"


not the best punchline is it??


ive found a way to handle that situation ... and it hasn't been suggested on here (that I've seen) and it has worked so far.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

birdog said:


> ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS.


Don't make a big deal out of it, do you do this as part of the way you do business? If so give it to them. If it isn't the way you do business simply say so. 

_"That isn't how we do business, is that going to stop us from earning your business today, or should we carry on?"_

I would make it no more difficult or big a deal as that.

If they insist you can just thank him and leave or try to keep the process going by asking him: 

_"I've never ever had a customer ask me for any of that before, you're actually the first. Is there a reason why you need that?"_

We all get stuff like this from time to time, usually we have blown it out of proportion in our minds long before the customer even gets it all out of their mouth. We assume the worst when most of the time it's not even an issue. Sometimes people just got done reading something telling them "How to hire a contractor" and it said to do that. Once you question them about it, 99% of them will say something to that effect and move on. Asking them about it also reveals those 1% that you have to watch out for. It's always good practice to answer a question with a question in the selling phase.


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## Humble Abode (Mar 19, 2005)

dirt diggler said:


> um ok ... so he says "great - i'll go buy you the materials and pay you $1 for labor"
> 
> 
> not the best punchline is it??
> ...


What is it!?

The suspense is killing me....

Mike, 

You want a job in sales? You would have to relocate to Wisconsin! 

Good advice.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Years ago I was a partner in a business. We were both 'vice-presidents' while his wife was the 'official president'.

If one or both of us were getting beat up, we'd just say "We'll discuss the offer with the Pres." It bought us time to discuss the situation away from the client. In your situation we could just say, "The Pres. has a strict policy about that.".

The 'Pres.' could be a tough cookie even though she is a 'stay at home mom' and never had a clue as to what the business was about.:laughing:


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## Danahy (Oct 17, 2006)

If the HO wanted to know a breakdown of your labour, I'd say he was lookin' to help out possibly to cut costs. Looks like your HO either wants to know if he a) can get the materials cheaper, or, b) the worse case which is how much you are making.

I'd give him a higher labour cost, and lower materials cost. He'll either a) realize he can't get materials for less or b) think that you make too much. 

However you do it, stick to your price... You'll either get it or you won't.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

If you want to learn a lesson, break it down for him. It could be good or bad. Most likely bad. But you will learn from the experience. Sometimes touching the flame is the best way to learn how not to get burned.


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## PlainPainter (Dec 29, 2004)

Never ever ever never let a customer know your costs - do not break down anything for him. I do this on occasion when I need the money and I am able to put aside the fact the job is going to be one big pita!

Trust me - no homeowner under the sun who is a good client will ever ask to micromanage your business - they're just looking for leverage against you. If you do work for time and materials - always discuss your rates before anything is signed - and let them know they aren't going to see receipts - that is your business and nobody but yours!!!!

Unless of course you don't mind being their little biatch for the time being until the regular season comes up. But just be forewarned what this customer is about. They are already pita - that I wouldn't even bother doing anymore work in explaining things to them. They'll probably want to see if they can get the estimate lowered if they provide the materials. Or second guess your contractors rate. Just go on to the next customer - or be resigned that these are misery clients.

Happiness is a client that appreciates great quality for fair prices - and only wants to know who to make the check to. Even great customers that I have had in the past turned into pita - when some of their economic situations changed - and suddenly they were totally different people. Gone by the wayside are the days where people sucked it up and saved money until they could afford work done - not chisel contractors down to miserable rates that they can afford now!


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

tell him the cost of material if you want. In reality he will probably not hire you he is seeing how much money he can save by doing it himself.


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## 4thGeneration (Nov 23, 2006)

Ask him if you can see his household budget.

1.He is not paying your bills
2.He is not paying your taxes
3.He is not...

So in short just leave the price with him and tell him you have to get to other jobs that are contracted and ready to paint. Tell him to keep you in mind for his project and leave it at that. These people would think it was rude if you asked to see a break down of what his house is worth right?

Thats it. Give him a cheap price with a 6% interest on the total sale of his house because you should market to him the increase in value of his house due to the quality paint job he will be getting. Tell him not only does he get protection, he also gets projection (others see the results of the new colors and quality) which adds curb appeal and reslae value along with increase in home sale profits.


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

birdog said:


> I just gave a bid for a exterior repaint job. Power wash,prep,2coats siding and trim,shutters front door, there will be 3 colors. This is a ranch house level ground,I will be using SW Duration on siding and trim and SW Super paint on the front door and shutters.The HO called and wants a break down of labor costs and material costs. He said you'll be there 2-3days and I replied no it would likely be 3.5 to 4. The house is about 2200 sp ft. I bid 3,200. I've never had anybody ask me to break a bid down. Have you guys ever had this happen to you? Should I just give it to him or say I see no reason to break it down this is the price take it or not. $3,199 for mat and $1 for labor HaHa. Just joking I would'nt be this brash with a client. ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS.


2200 sq ft house, for $3200, thats a good price, ya got me beat, I could not do it for that price.

How bad do ya want the job?:no:


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## Rickb1959 (Mar 7, 2007)

birdog said:


> I just gave a bid for a exterior repaint job. Power wash,prep,2coats siding and trim,shutters front door, there will be 3 colors. This is a ranch house level ground,I will be using SW Duration on siding and trim and SW Super paint on the front door and shutters.The HO called and wants a break down of labor costs and material costs. He said you'll be there 2-3days and I replied no it would likely be 3.5 to 4. The house is about 2200 sp ft. I bid 3,200. I've never had anybody ask me to break a bid down. Have you guys ever had this happen to you? Should I just give it to him or say I see no reason to break it down this is the price take it or not. $3,199 for mat and $1 for labor HaHa. Just joking I would'nt be this brash with a client. ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS.


 
Tell him you need to run a credit check on him also. And that you need some references on him. And be thankfull when he runs you off.


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

Workaholic said:


> tell him the cost of material if you want. In reality he will probably not hire you he is seeing how much money he can save by doing it himself.


c'mon....I've never met a HO that wanted to tackle their own project like this, especially if they want a quality job--that's why they call us

I personally would not give up my breakdown...I dont know exactly what I'd say to avoid it, but my pricing and such will never be seen by my customers :no:


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

I had this come up once... this is what I said....

After my taxes, insurance, liscense, truck, phones, rent, advertising, phone book ads, cards, sunderies such as rags, washing those rags, brushes, sprayer, ladders, uniforms and gas... the materials are 621.23 and the rest covers .. well, three days of work. Need that in writing?


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## Danahy (Oct 17, 2006)

Brushslingers said:


> I had this come up once... this is what I said....
> 
> After my taxes, insurance, liscense, truck, phones, rent, advertising, phone book ads, cards, sunderies such as rags, washing those rags, brushes, sprayer, ladders, uniforms and gas... the materials are 621.23 and the rest covers .. well, three days of work. Need that in writing?


ditto this.... and actually now that I'm thinking about it, only tell him verbally if you're going to tell him anything... Otherwise the competition may get there hands on your estimate breakdown. Put it in writting, if the HO is happy with your explaination (see slingers pitch above), and commits to the job... Once committed, then put anything you want in writing. 

Just explain what you're going to do, and what products you'll use, and give him your price. Let him do the leg work of comparing prices...


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

Brushslingers said:


> I had this come up once... this is what I said....
> 
> After my taxes, insurance, liscense, truck, phones, rent, advertising, phone book ads, cards, sunderies such as rags, washing those rags, brushes, sprayer, ladders, uniforms and gas... the materials are 621.23 and the rest covers .. well, three days of work. Need that in writing?


I agree also with this statement but you wash your rags ??  I have a hard time taking time to wash my drops! I just bought a 50lb box of rags the other day that should keep me going for a while.

I wouldn't break down my price, maybe for a repeat customer that I know will use me know matter what.


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Heh, ya I do... old habit, oil rags get tossed, latex gets washed.


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## remodeling joe (Feb 21, 2007)

sounds like a pita to me...... when the HO starts with that sort of b.s. that means their not worth working for. i'd tell the HO that's not how i handle my business, if you want my services either sign on the dotted line or please find someong else.


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## goodbiz (Aug 19, 2007)

Most of the replies were nice and good, but you have to remember that in some states the customer has the "right" to ask for a breakdown! If you're bounded by these legal provsions, you must comply to providing the breakdown. Nonetheless, your breakdown would document "your charges" on contracted items, not your actual costs. Moreover, in some commercial accounts, or gov. contracts (I know does not relate to your issue here) the workers' wages must be revealed. 

With this type of customers, I usually say: "NEXT"!


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

goodbiz said:


> .... you have to remember that in some states the customer has the "right" to ask for a breakdown! If you're bounded by these legal provsions, you must comply to providing the breakdown. ....


What State would require a breakdown for a resi job???

Even if you are "bound" by these alleged laws..."NO" and walk out the door is always an option.


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## sjm (Sep 15, 2006)

Just tell the HO no problem,You will give him a breakdown right after he fowards you his last years tax returns.

Simply put how you come to your final numbers are of no concern of his....he either likes your price or he doesn't and judging from him wanting you to give him a breakdown,means he doesn't and he wants you to sharping your pencil.....politely tell him thanks but no thanks,you never have done business like that and your not gonna start now.


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