# Advice on a New Hire



## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted on here a few months back looking for advice on making my first new hire. Needless to say it took me a couple of months to get around to making a decision and hiring someone.

Here's the situation: new hire is from the corporate world (never did manual or skilled labor), hired because of his (seemingly) sincere and intense passion to learn a trade as well as all around good initial vibes.

Been with me not quite two weeks. Half the time he is on time, and I mean right on time, if we start at 7:30, he is pulling in at 7:30. The other half he is 5-10 minutes late. Never packs his lunch - always goes out. Texts often on his phone when he thinks I am not looking. Does not hustle to get things, carries only one or two items, etc.

I have stressed and over-stressed the importance of being on time. Advise him to pack lunch to save money and time. Told him a few times to leave the cell phone alone.

Overall, he is mediocre. Shows a slight promise in an ability to be trained, but uncertain if he has the drive, desire or knows the time he needs to put in to do it. 

Problem is I am swamped with work, really need the extra hands. Sometimes I feel like I need him more than he needs me (could this be right??). Do I let him go? Try and find a replacement, then let him go? Go extra hard on him hoping he learns his lesson and mans up or goes home?

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

If he is pulling in at 7:30, in my book he is late.
Work means working, not sippin your coffee, getting your tools out, finishing your phone calls, etc.

YOUR FIRED! Plenty of good help available in times like this.


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

State the rules - enforce the rules

The only time a cell phone should be in anyones hand, it had better be to call me, or your answering an emergency call

Can him, & search for someone else - with the way most places are a quick help wanted add will flood you with calls
Make sure you list all your expectations up front to all new hires & see what they think - they hem & haw, better to know up front


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## westernexplorer (Jun 24, 2009)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Posted on here a few months back looking for advice on making my first new hire. Needless to say it took me a couple of months to get around to making a decision and hiring someone.
> 
> Here's the situation: new hire is from the corporate world (never did manual or skilled labor), hired because of his (seemingly) sincere and intense passion to learn a trade as well as all around good initial vibes.
> 
> ...


Well, since I'm not a dog eat dog canbal like some on this site, you may not like my answer.

The texting is just a way of life now.....all these kids do that.

As far as being later, he needs to be on time and his lunch is his business, unless he is bumming money from you for lunch.

I say, if he is on time and is willing to learn, honest, trustworthy....then the 30 or 60 minutes a day you lose in texting or walking slowly is far better than having a guy who never brings a phone and runs, but when you turn your back, he steals you blind.....

I'm happy if I can get 6 good hours out of someone in an 8 hour day, with lunch and breaks, bathroom stops.
The other thing is, what are paying the guy...? Lets be realistic guy.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

I was upfront with the rules from day 1. I admit that the day to day operations (being on the jobsite everyday) prevent me from always noticing and enforcing them.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

He's getting $12/hr with option of medical after 90 days.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Any advice would be appreciated.


If you start at 7:30 and he pulls in at 7:30 HE'S LATE! Make him start at 8:00
If he shows up at 7:35 tell him to sit in his car till 8:30 He just lost an hours wages.
If he's messing with his phone when he should be working... GO SIT IN THE CAR FOR 1 HR
As long as he's back on time from lunch...Cool but if he's late make it a Loooong lunch. Sit in the car!

I know a lot of you guys hate CraigsList but Go on craigslist and get you someone who WANTS to work. Either in the JOBS section or look in the houshold services for a HANDYMAN... I'm just a CL handyman because I can't find guys like you who NEED a good worker with skills.


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## rwa (May 6, 2009)

Just because you are considering it at such an early stage tells me there is only one question. Not if you are going to fire him, but when? Get it over with before it cost you.


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## BillD (Jun 9, 2008)

Fire him! I would have sent him packing the first week. If he had any experience or motivation I might say try and get him to tow the line, but it appears he does not so why bother.

Bill


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

If you're a small company, there's no reason why you can't have a team full of superstars. It just takes sorting through the rabble to find them.

I'd replace him. Sooner than later.

If you want to light a fire...send him home the next time he shows up late. Give him a "decision day" to think about if he really wants to work for you.

In the end though, he's shown you his true colors. He doesn't fit the program and the longer you wait...it's just that much longer before you find your next superstar. As was said, it's a buyers market for employers right now...especially if you offer steady work and benefits.

Don't waste time wringing your hands over why a promising young man won't take hold of such a good opportunity. I've put up with more than my share of so-so guys over the years to know that things aren't going to get any better with him. It is what it is.

There's a superstar out there that will make your life soooo much easier... Now go find him. (or her :thumbsup

_"Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." _--*Heraclitus*


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

As for Craigslist... 

Two of my carpenters came direct from CL posts and they are absolute termites. They work hard, are dependable, and my clients love them. (and both are over the age of 30 if that tells you anything :whistling.)


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Posted on here a few months back looking for advice on making my first new hire. Needless to say it took me a couple of months to get around to making a decision and hiring someone.
> 
> Here's the situation: new hire is from the corporate world (never did manual or skilled labor), hired because of his (seemingly) sincere and intense passion to learn a trade as well as all around good initial vibes.
> 
> ...


 oh boy. You are a masocist aren't you? :laughing:

Listen, a corporate kid's only way he is going to get it is if he gets stuck on a deserted island and has to learn to fend for himself. Gets totally broke down and built back up.

I absolutely refuse to hire guys who haven't been in the trades. There is no substitute for somebody that has been abused, made fun of been hazed and treated like a bag of dirt by a construction crew and they have slowly grown and gained skill. Those guys know what construction is about and how it works.

Those corporate boys are ridiculous. They have no clue what real work and never likely will.

You're nuts to waste your time with this kid. Get rid of him and find somebody with trade experience. There is no substitute.

When I hire somebody I put in big letters must have XX amount of construction crew experience - if you were a house flipper, that doesn't count, if you helped out your uncle billy that doesn't count, if you fixed up your own houses you lived in, that doesn't count! 

You'd be amazed how pissed some of them get trying to justify how experienced they are, but you put them toe to toe with a guy who has construction crew experience and it's like Mike Tyson getting into a ring with Tiny Tim.:laughing:

Your corporate boy will never measure up. He's from the land of mommys and daddys taking care of him, from the land of the X-box, not construction.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Mark, after being in the 'swamped' boat for a while, I sucked it up and accepted mediocre workers BUT tried to run the show as often as possible. Production without me versus with me was night and day difference-so I would often spend the first 4-5hrs w/ the slow crew and then jump to the next job where a more skilled worker was taking care of business. 

My recommendation would be to clamp down on what's important regarding rules and use him for what he is, your paycheck. Profit's not going to be as good, but you'll bide time whilie you activley search for another laborer. I say don't let the first guy go until the second guy pans out. I hired a guy who lasted for 3 days before he confessed he couldn't hang with the physical work (older guy). For $12 an hr in the surrounding Philly area, you're getting a laborer. 

best of luck!


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> I absolutely refuse to hire guys who haven't been in the trades.


I hired a college kid for the summer as a laborer-I know his family so there are ties there. No experience with construction or remodeling, but he'll do all right in life. After teaching him what to do, he keeps up on it and moves on to the next thing. I turned around one day wondering where he was, he took the initiative to cut the rebar for the upcoming next step without the experienced guys telling him to. Point being, either a guy wants to or he doesn't want to, work that is. 

In my experience, the go getters, hustlers, guys looking for a better way, those are the ones using you because one day they'll start their own crew/business :thumbsup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

He's a goner...bye-bye...c'ya...adios...whatever suits you. I can't even _imagine_ pulling that crap...and right after you've started a new job on top of it....


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> If you start at 7:30 and he pulls in at 7:30 HE'S LATE! Make him start at 8:00
> If he shows up at 7:35 tell him to sit in his car till 8:30 He just lost an hours wages.
> If he's messing with his phone when he should be working... GO SIT IN THE CAR FOR 1 HR
> As long as he's back on time from lunch...Cool but if he's late make it a Loooong lunch. Sit in the car!
> ...


Yeah and most of those Craigslist guy's are not too concerned with working for someone that has workers comp...


Till they fall off a ladder.:whistling


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## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

I tell every one the rules the first day . 
I will watch them for one week .
On Day 6 I start enforcing the rules . 
Talking on the phone , smoking , drinking coffee, pissen me off . Gets them the rest of the day off . 
show up late ! (Go home)
I pay on Monday so most guys show up . If they aren't there they don't get payed until the following week . If you don't like it ( Quit ) .


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

wellbuilthome said:


> I pay on Monday so most guys show up . If they aren't there *they don't get payed until the following week*



Is that even legal ???


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i had a kid trying to text his girl friend while we were both moving a 30' pic around the househe didnt last the day


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Celtic said:


> Is that even legal ???


There are a certain number of days before someone has to legally be paid for their work. If he is within those days, probably is. Not sure if the laws are the same there, though.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

custrel said:


> LIke the idea of a 'decision day,' to serve as a wake up call; it might work. At least your conscience will be clear if he doesn't change his behavior.
> 
> Employees can be like kids at times. They'll push the boundaries to see what they can get away with - intentionally or not- and once you let a couple of things go - showing up late, screwing around with phones & ipods - they'll start taking advantage in other ways. Longer breaks, leaving early, etc. etc.
> 
> It could be you have been too lax with this guy, and he's just kept sliding downhill because he can. It could be the guy doesn't like his job. You can tell him what you expect from him - ready to work at the appointed time, no texting, more hustle - or you'll be forced to look for a replacement; and maybe he'll change, but usually what you see is what you get with employees.


I think he got the ultimate decision day. Hopefully he'll "decide" to apply himself a little better for his next boss.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

This has been an interesting read:laughing::laughing:

Don't know you MZ (other than a few other uhhhh, odd posts:whistling), but think you may be one of them there generation "y".....First thought after thanking someone and then find you contraditing them the very next post.

As for Fast Fred, you can take my scraps as long as you take from the right pile and I'll even pay you to pile them in your beater.:laughing: I do keep some things, but don't have room for all the things that I would "like" to keep so in the trash they go.

Agree with Mike over the tripping over the dollar to save the dime mentality.....Really pisses me off. MY money, let ME make the decision. Your money, you can make the decision until your cheap tool, or cheap option costs me money or customers.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

"Decision Day" (D-Day?)

I have used this on a couple of occasions though not in several years. Mixed results. One guy thanked me the next day, saying he used the day to get caught up on some things. Some guys just get angry and quit. I agree though, usually by this time the writing is already on the wall. These situations always seem to occur when work gets really busy


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Posted on here a few months back looking for advice on making my first new hire. Needless to say it took me a couple of months to get around to making a decision and hiring someone.
> 
> Here's the situation: new hire is from the corporate world (never did manual or skilled labor), hired because of his (seemingly) sincere and intense passion to learn a trade as well as all around good initial vibes.
> 
> ...


Hes playing you as a fool man... Ive been through enough employees to know a good one when i see one..

First of all you have failed him by NOT laying down the law and telling him what is expected from him BEFORE HE HITS YOUR JOB SITES FOR THE FIRST TIME>

Second, if you do not inform they will run all over you. If they are doing those things now, think of what hes going to be like later on..

I would get rid of that guy after you have a talk with him and he doesnt change his ways...

#1 no cell phone use on the job less its job related
#2 Being to work at 7:30 when work starts at 7:30 is BEING LATE. (if it turns 7:30 and your pulling in I cant exactly hand you things to load onto the truck now can I" - stress work ethics
#3 Time is paid based on work - so unless you are working you;re not on the clock.
#4 IF dont like it, leave


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

ChrWright said:


> I think he got the ultimate decision day. Hopefully he'll "decide" to apply himself a little better for his next boss.


Ha ha. Yeah.

Realistically, I'd give the guy one chance unless he was a rock star. The second time he showed up late, I would have had to let him go.

But I'm lucky that I don't have to hire anyone so far who I haven't worked with personally, or who has a reference from one of my current employees, and therefore has established a good rep.

Then again, I don't pay $12/hour so...


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## midsouth (Jul 30, 2009)

Kuba said:


> #2 Being to work at 7:30 when work starts at 7:30 is BEING LATE. (if it turns 7:30 and your pulling in I cant exactly hand you things to load onto the truck now can I" - stress work ethics



The only thing i disagree with as far as your post goes. 
I never have understood this mentality! Your company only wants to pay starting at a certain time, im not going to get there until you SAID TO be there ya know.

Although i often show up 20 minutes early because i love my job, i dont see why someone would be expected to show up earlier than when they were told to be there. Old timers rules i guess, but sorry guys this is what i meant by kids being "smarter" these days, theyre not working for free and i guess you can call it lazy if you like, thats just how it is. 

If you want them there at 7:25, then tell them work starts at 7:25, pay them to start at 7:25, then make sure they are there at 7:25. Its only fair. 

Then again you have your lazy bums who if told to be there at 10 would show up at 10 after 10 just to take advantage. Thats a different ball game.


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## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

Celtic said:


> Is that even legal ???


 I'm not even sure if its legal or not ? But Ive been working the same way for 30 years . I guess they could break my balls for there check but then they would be looking for a new job one way or the other . I believe if you would like to get payed you should show up for your check. there is no reason to miss work with out a call.


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## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

jtpro said:


> :thumbup: Good Idea IF you have otherwise GOOD employees with BAD after hours practices.:whistling
> 
> Worked for a medium sized company who had Sat. show up problems so they implemented Wed. paydays. Only sucked for the first week. When you budget for 7 days or when an employer pays every 7 days Mon-Mon Wed-Wed Fri-Fri it's ALL a week.
> 
> It's Fked up when you have to do stuff like that though. Back in the day I was a HARDCORE partier. If I choose to go out and get wrecked the night before than I damn well better be able to get up the next day for work. When I did call in sick they knew it was for real and not the brown bottle flue!


 To tell you the truth I spent many a night sleeping in the sand pile at the job , so there was no way i could be late for work. :thumbup:


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## Kuba (May 3, 2009)

midsouth said:


> The only thing i disagree with as far as your post goes.
> I never have understood this mentality! Your company only wants to pay starting at a certain time, im not going to get there until you SAID TO be there ya know.
> 
> Although i often show up 20 minutes early because i love my job, i dont see why someone would be expected to show up earlier than when they were told to be there. Old timers rules i guess, but sorry guys this is what i meant by kids being "smarter" these days, theyre not working for free and i guess you can call it lazy if you like, thats just how it is.
> ...


Not my point -Point was... If work STARTS at 7:30 and someone is pulling up at 7:30... then they're not working until 7:35... the time it takes them to get out, get their **** together, finish their coffee, ask whats going on for the day.... sigh..I agree, I wouldnt want to show up early to stand around not being paid, however thats a leadership issue... If guys are expected to BE at work by 7:30, that is different than work STARTS at 7:30... Set-up is working.. if you roll up to the job at 7:30 and fly out with your bags or brushes in hand... lol... fine... but you know as well as I do that showing up on the minute is poor work ethics and it has nothing to do with being paid or not...If "young" guys want to be paid from the second they show up until the second they leave.. Then how about docking their fkn ass for cig breaks every 15m...How about a smokem if you gottem policy and have a punch hard on site.. Punch out the second you leave to smoke and punch back in when you're done...I personally dont get down on guys for being late.. **** happens man, we all know that.. Weight the pros and cons...The problem is larger than 1 person that pulls that ****... Once everyone else sees this crap they tend to think its ok.. Its like a disease.Communication is better than threats. Id personally just tell the guy that "We operate as a team and begin work at 7:30 - come prepaired to work, we cant all stand around waiting for 1 person to get ready - its just not acceptable on this crew"An effective method - I worked for Sage Construction when i was 19 down in AZ building condos... Every morning our crew showed up 5-10m early to roll out as fast as we could, then we would stop and finish our coffee and shoot the ****... After our BS meeting we would hit it hard as hell and go balls to the wall till lunch. Guys that want to show up on the min by the hr have backwards work ethics; normally feeling underappreciated and they want to squeeze you for every second they work (money + respect).
Guys that feel as though they are really apart of a TEAM look forward to work each day be cause they RESPECT their friends!


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

wellbuilthome said:


> I pay on Monday so most guys show up . If they aren't there they don't get payed until the following week . If you don't like it ( Quit ) .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While I agree a phone call is a respectful and courteous course of action, it is not a requirement.
Holding a man's pay hostage is not the appropriate response for the man's callous attitude and could very well be illegal:



> *How often must employees be paid?*
> New York law requires that all private sector employees, except for those who are employed in an executive, administrative or professional capacity and earn more than $600 per week be paid in a timely manner. Manual employees must be paid every week, and the wages for any week's work must be paid not later than seven days after the end of that week. Clerical and other employees must be paid at least twice a month. Commission salespersons must be paid their wages and commissions at least once each month, and not later than the last day of the month following the month in which the wages and commissions were earned.


http://www.oag.state.ny.us/bureaus/labor/rights.html


While you may have some comfort is acting in this fashion for the past 30 years ~ does that make it right?
Legally?
Morally?


Sounds like it's a "my way or the highway" operation you got going on over there.....maybe some guys don't call off just to piss you off.
I know I would :laughing:


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