# deep joist notched help!!



## benooo (Feb 19, 2009)

I am currently on a job and in one of the ensuites the floor joists have been notched and the building inspector has come round and told us they need to be changed as they are to deep. if this is true we have to destroy half of the house is there anyway that the joist can be repaired legitamatly because taking down all the walls seems a bit extreme!! there is no structual weight on the beams it is just supporting toliet sink shoer and person whos in there. please help!!


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I don't know if the inspector will buy it ,but we have done repairs with laminating 3/4 plywood scabs on either side of the joist. Depends on the size and location of the notch too.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

First floor?


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

benooo said:


> I am currently on a job and in one of the ensuites the floor joists have been notched and the building inspector has come round and told us they need to be changed as they are to deep. if this is true we have to destroy half of the house is there anyway that the joist can be repaired legitamatly because taking down all the walls seems a bit extreme!! there is no structual weight on the beams it is just supporting toliet sink shoer and person whos in there. please help!!


How deep did you guys butcher the joists?

was it in the end third or the middle third?

You can not cut, drill or notch anything in the middle third of a joist or rafter.

Putting plywood on the sides will not help.

Can you post a picture?


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

You're leaving out a lot of information. Sometimes you can and sometimes you can't. I always forewarn the HO that once we rip up the floor we might run into that problem and you have to leave yourself an allowance or clause in the contract.

Most contractors patch it by sistering 2x onto the sides, or like the previous person said, plywood can also work.

But if the notches are too big then patching is a hack job. Once you get past a certain point that joist has little structural integrity, especially if the notches are more than 2" from the top or bottom. The floor will deflect past the acceptable rate, your tiles will crack, etc.

Most of the time you have to sister full span. Remember, at the end of the day if the inspector says replace it you're either replacing it or show some calculations from your engineer proving why the alternative will work.


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## RayGoerdt (Nov 13, 2008)

ful length sistering sounds like the best way, but again, not really enough info provided and pics would really help.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Even if you have to sister full length, why would you have to take down walls? Cut a one foot wide slit in the ceiling along the length of the joist, (or to the next joist if the drywall is nailed right to the joists) going from room to room if necessary, without removing any walls. There's most likely a central beam and the joists are only half the width of the house so you can usually, with a bit of playing, slip one up in there. Then patch up your holes.


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## benooo (Feb 19, 2009)

thanks for replys i will try and get some pics of it they are in last third of the joists it should be 25% of the joist its roughly 28%-30% so its only a few mm but he still wants it changed


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## jcalvin (Feb 1, 2008)

It is going to be hard for us to tell you what the inspector will allow. Each one if different and you will need to make sure that your taxes are paid up, you remove your shoes when you walk into his office with your head hung, and ask the king of the construction world what he would accept. If his advice is suitable to you and you are comfortable letting your business name ride on that then just do it and be happy he isn't a pain.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

bob_cntrctr said:


> Even if you have to sister full length, why would you have to take down walls? Cut a one foot wide slit in the ceiling along the length of the joist, (or to the next joist if the drywall is nailed right to the joists) going from room to room if necessary, without removing any walls. There's most likely a central beam and the joists are only half the width of the house so you can usually, with a bit of playing, slip one up in there. Then patch up your holes.


I'm having a hard time visualizing this.

Let's say the bathroom is on the second floor.

It's located directly in the middle of the span of the joists. Let's say the width of the bathroom is 5' and the joists are spanning 15', so you have 5' on either side.

Let's say on one side the joists are sitting on the outside wall plate, and on the other side they are lapped across a load bearing wall and on the other side is another 10'.

So how would you handle this?


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

benooo said:


> thanks for replys i will try and get some pics of it they are in last third of the joists it should be 25% of the joist its roughly 28%-30% so its only a few mm but he still wants it changed


What Building code does your are follow?

International code allows 25% depending on the location, you can put a piece of steel on the joists.

Take some pictures and get some accurate measurements.

Find the applicable code, and discuss it with his supervisor before changing the joists.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

benooo said:


> I am currently on a job and in one of the ensuites the floor joists have been notched and the building inspector has come round and told us they need to be changed as they are to deep. if this is true we have to destroy half of the house is there anyway that the joist can be repaired legitamatly because taking down all the walls seems a bit extreme!! there is no structual weight on the beams it is just supporting toliet sink shoer and person whos in there. please help!!


Loneframer gave you a good solution, put 3/4 inch plywood from both sides, glued and bolted with carriage bolts it is an approved repair. I was doing code violation repairs in the basement that was done without permits, the guy who did the drop ceiling, put the grid to high, and couldn't fit 2 by 4 lights, so the Ahole notched the bottoms of 9 joists on a 15'4" span to make them fit. I drew the repair drawing and had an Architect sign off and write a letter. You might want to do the same. If you cut the joist up real bad, you might want to sister another joist. See what works best in your situation. If you post a few pictures, it will help.

Good luck


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

benooo said:


> I am currently on a job and in one of the ensuites the floor joists have been notched and the building inspector has come round and told us they need to be changed as they are to deep. if this is true we have to destroy half of the house is there anyway that the joist can be repaired legitamatly because taking down all the walls seems a bit extreme!! there is no structual weight on the beams it is just supporting toliet sink shoer and person whos in there. please help!!


Is there an Architect on the job? If so ask him for a solution in writing. If there is no Architect you can take some of the advice given here and ask the Inspector if it's alright. If not, you have to do what he says.

Floor joists that are notched don't always have to be changed, you can sister next to them or repair them different ways depending how bad they are and what is above them.

If there are wires and pipes running through them sistering can be costly. If that is the case adding plywood, glue and screws might work depending on the situation. Bolting 2x4 or 2x6 on both sides of the joist might work. Gluing and screwing 2x4 or 2x6 across the length of the bottom might work. You have options. If you don't have an Architect on the job to give you an option in writing, you can run them by the inspector and see if he might accept one.


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

Heritage said:


> I'm having a hard time visualizing this.
> 
> Let's say the bathroom is on the second floor.
> 
> ...


It's certainly possible to imagine arrangements that would make it impossible to do what I suggest. But it's equally possible the situation will allow it. The devil is in the details. 

Maybe he's got 12' joists running east-west, and from west to east on the ground floor under the bathroom he's got a 3-foot closet, a 4-foot corridor, a 5-foot half bath and a 12-foot family room. You slice the ceiling beside the joist the full width of the house and slip the new joist in from the family room. Do lots of measuring first to be sure there'll be room to fenegle the joist in. If the new joist is the exact same height as the notched one, you'll have to round opposite corners to be able to flip it up against the joist once it's in.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Have you every seen these or something else along these lines?

http://metwoodstore.com/ucrepair/joist-chooser










I looked into them one time a while ago, they have passed some codes but they have to pass the building depts local adoption of the codes, I had no luck with them because the building dept wasn't comfortable with them, but that doesn't mean you building dept would feel the same way.

I remember calling the company that produced them and they sent me the engineering and code adoptions but it did me no good in the end, but that doesn't mean it would be the same results for you.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

the rounding of the inside top corner is key.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

bwalley said:


> How deep did you guys butcher the joists?
> 
> was it in the end third or the middle third?
> 
> ...


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## jcalvin (Feb 1, 2008)

Cdat said:


>


uh....I think that you can only notch 25%...not leave 25%


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

Cdat said:


>


 You jackin' my portfolio pics?:furious:


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## bob_cntrctr (Jan 30, 2008)

People should be able to sue for damages for work like this.


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