# Service "bugs"



## lifestooshort81 (Sep 8, 2012)

Hi folks. Before I ask my question here, I just want to point out what I'm going to ask is probably going to get a lot of replies such as "hire a licensed electrician". I'm a licensed contractor but years ago i spent a long time working for a licensed electrician so I'm familiar with doing electrical work just as much as a license guy. That being said this is for my own home, not a customers or anywhere I can be liable except for myself.

I need to do a service change on my home. I want to upgrade to a 200 amp panel and therefor need to change the service entrance cable and meter pan. The only thing holding me up is how to bug the service wires without an expensive crimper that I would otherwise have no use for after this job. Are there other products out there I can use like a splice bolt for example I can use on 4/0 aluminum service cable? I know the "right" and best way to do it is with crimp bugs but I have seen guys change services with other means, albeit it may not be "code" but it worked. I just didn't see what actual device they used to splice the wiring. I've even seen one guy use a metal Romex connector. Ok that may have been a bit of jig-rig but as I said prior, it worked and still is I'm service. 

I'm sure what I'm asking is "against code" but I don't care about code as long as it will work and is safe! I'm not an idiot and take every precaution necessary. 

Thanks in advance!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

'Round these parts, that's the POCOs job. You sure don't want to go messing around with the service drop since there's nothing between you and Hoover Dam.

You may also invoke rules from the POCO as well as the local AHJ when you upgrade your service. So be sure to check with them before starting. A simple service upgrade can quickly become an expensive whole-house rewire if that's what the AHJ requires.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm just as handy as you in that respect, and I've replaced a number of services. But those crimps are POCO territory here too, and they won't do it unless you've had your installation passed by an authorized inspector. And that's something you should have done anyway.

If anything ever happens, you won't have any insurance and no legal recourse. :no:

Not to mention that you might give a whole new meaning to your screen name. :laughing:


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## lifestooshort81 (Sep 8, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> I'm just as handy as you in that respect, and I've replaced a number of services. But those crimps are POCO territory here too, and they won't do it unless you've had your installation passed by an authorized inspector. And that's something you should have done anyway.
> 
> If anything ever happens, you won't have any insurance and no legal recourse. :no:
> 
> Not to mention that you might give a whole new meaning to your screen name. :laughing:


Haha yeah I don't need to shorten my life any more than it may potentially be. LOL 

As for bugging being the responsibility of the power company I'm not sure how that goes here in Jersey. Maybe the electrical contractor I worked for did it regardless? He had the proper big crimper though; similar looking to a nicopress crimper. My understanding (and it's just that), the POCO only is responsible to the house. The service hookup is homeowner responsibility albeit 99.9% of homeowners would just call a licensed/professional electrician. 

As for safety, if your properly UNgrounded (on a fiberglass ladder) and even wear heavy insulated gloves you should be pretty safe...but that's why I'm not licensed...yet. There's always time to go that route. Electric has never "scared" me as long you understand and respect it! But that's just me  I changed my main panel a few years ago but that's simple respectively speaking. Kill the load, pull the meter and you're electrically de-energized inside. 

Anyway, thanks for the input!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

lifestooshort81 said:


> ......wear heavy insulated gloves you should be pretty safe...........


OK, so you're up on the ladder....... using a socket on the split-bolt on one of the hot wires......... and the socket handle touches the bare carrier of the ACSR.

Gloves ain't gonna do squat.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

lifestooshort81 said:


> I need to do a service change on my home. I want to upgrade to a 200 amp panel and therefor need to change the service entrance cable and meter pan. The only thing holding me up is how to bug the service wires without an expensive crimper that I would otherwise have no use for after this job. Are there other products out there I can use like a splice bolt for example I can use on 4/0 aluminum service cable? I know the "right" and best way to do it is with crimp bugs but I have seen guys change services with other means, albeit it may not be "code" but it worked. I just didn't see what actual device they used to splice the wiring. I've even seen one guy use a metal Romex connector. Ok that may have been a bit of jig-rig but as I said prior, it worked and still is I'm service.
> 
> I'm sure what I'm asking is "against code" but I don't care about code as long as it will work and is safe! I'm not an idiot and take every precaution necessary.





lifestooshort81 said:


> Haha yeah I don't need to shorten my life any more than it may potentially be. LOL
> 
> As for bugging being the responsibility of the power company I'm not sure how that goes here in Jersey. Maybe the electrical contractor I worked for did it regardless? He had the proper big crimper though; similar looking to a nicopress crimper. My understanding (and it's just that), the POCO only is responsible to the house. The service hookup is homeowner responsibility albeit 99.9% of homeowners would just call a licensed/professional electrician.
> 
> As for safety, if your properly UNgrounded (on a fiberglass ladder) and even wear heavy insulated gloves you should be pretty safe...but that's why I'm not licensed...yet. There's always time to go that route. Electric has never "scared" me as long you understand and respect it! But that's just me  I changed my main panel a few years ago but that's simple respectively speaking. Kill the load, pull the meter and you're electrically de-energized inside.


WOW!
I love the _"I don't care if it's code as long as it's safe"_ mentality. :no: 


In MOST areas the tap-on IS the responsibility of the utility. Some areas allow the contractor to temporarily make taps and the POCO comes by after inspection to do it permanently.

Many areas also do allow qualified and approved contractors to do the taps when all the proper safety procedures are followed and the correct taps are used. 
Contact your POCO to see what the case in your area is. 
Also, I'd check to see what the fines/penalties are for doing it illegally or incorrectly. 

If you are considering a service upgrade without the proper permits and inspections IMO you are out of your mind.


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## pruane (Jul 2, 2006)

In Jersey my guys do it all the time. After inspection you call PSE&G and wait 3 weeks for them to come and either change the drop or put their connectors on it. My guys use hose clamps and tape. works great.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

A long time ago in a land far far away, well maybe right here in Albuquerque...

At one time we would do service changes, including disconnect/reconnect ourselves. Of course we would permit the job, the inspector would inspect it, then the POCO would come replace our split-bolt connections with their crimp connections. The rules are less flexible today. Only the POCO may cut and only the POCO may reconnect the service cable. 

We really can't cheat today. The meter reader will notice the meter seal has been cut/tampered and turn us in. The POCO will send a service guy out who will call the Electrical Inspector and....................


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

It's our responsibility up here. We put on temp. connectors. You call the POCO and they come out to put the crimps on. Usually takes a week or so.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Sometimes, temp connections never get changed.


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## lifestooshort81 (Sep 8, 2012)

For what it's worth this is my home that's the only reason I'm not concerned with "code". 9/10 times and sometimes 10/10 the code IS the right and safe way. Other times local jurisdictions have inspectors that have a bug (no pun intended) up their derrière and want it done "their way" for whatever reason. I know in NJ the code (regardless of the NEC) can change from town to town. I know the penalties can be steep for unpermited work but that's the only stupid risk I'd take. 

As far as the Romex connectors go maybe that was what the contractor was doing? Using them as a temp and having the POCO change them out. I wasn't there for any kind of follow up. 

So what would be so wrong with just duct-taping the wires together??? Haha just kidding :::rolls eyes::: and as far as the meter reader goes, mine must be blind since I cut my tamper tag years ago to change the panel and it's still cut LOL but now that I say that I'll probably get a phone call this week from the POCO! DOH! 

Thanks!!!
Al


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

lifestooshort81 said:


> For what it's worth this is my home that's the only reason I'm not concerned with "code"......


Then you sell this home. And someone gets on an internet forum saying, "I just bought this house, and I don't know what this Bozo was thinking when he cobbled this up, but it's crap and I gotta clean it up!"..........


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

As others have stated these connections are most normally up to the utility company and some crews are very fussy about it. Here in my area i have gotten to know the crews well and they often give me H-taps and covers along with many rolls of tape. So when i call for a disconnect/reconnect i ask how their schedule looks for the day and if they mind me reattaching to get the power on that much quicker. Most often they have no issue and come back to check my work when they get the inspection notice and work order to reconnect. What i and the line crew have run into is the district super is on a power trip and often does not send out the work order for reconnect right away leaving the HO without power for 1-5days. This is why i bought my own crimpers and H-taps and have worked with the line crew to do it if need be. But, i never do it without inspection and at least some communication with the line crew so i know the feeder will be large enough and they know it is live when they arrive. I have been told to use split bolt connectors or crimp barrels if need be but they prefer H-taps and is what i stick with.

As far as safety goes? You can never be too safe and even if there is no load on the line you will still get an arc when connecting. That right there tells me anything can happen and proper gear should be worn. Those guys are not in fiberglass buckets on a fiberglass boom wearing PPE with sun/safety glasses and helmets for fun or look cool. 

This job should be left to the line crews as much as possible and as 480 stated there is nothing between you and the power source, no breaker, no real fuse. How many amps do those transformers put out anyway? Has to be in the thousands correct? I have seen up to 6 homes on one transformer before and they were all new homes with at least 200 amp services. Something i have never asked the line crew.


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## Bulldog77 (Jan 31, 2009)

In NJ the only a licensed electrical contractor is allowed to disconnect and reconnect services up to 200amp for JCP&L area. I am have done the same in PSE&G area. 
A D&R number needs to obtained from JCP&L. This lets them know that the seal will be broken , work will down and in our case an upgrade.
The D&R number has to put on the permit application.
The electrical inspector sends in the cut in card after inspection with the D&R number on it.
IN PSE&G area the meterpan is supplied by the utility. In order to get the meterpan the issued electrical permit has to be shown.


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## lifestooshort81 (Sep 8, 2012)

Bulldog77 said:


> In NJ the only a licensed electrical contractor is allowed to disconnect and reconnect services up to 200amp for JCP&L area. I am have done the same in PSE&G area.
> A D&R number needs to obtained from JCP&L. This lets them know that the seal will be broken , work will down and in our case an upgrade.
> The D&R number has to put on the permit application.
> The electrical inspector sends in the cut in card after inspection with the D&R number on it.
> IN PSE&G area the meterpan is supplied by the utility. In order to get the meterpan the issued electrical permit has to be shown.


Nice information. Who knows by time I actually am able to have the time I may have an electricians license. I am looking into it. I'm just a home remodeler right now but that was to pass time and make a living. I've always loved electricity, wiring and working with it. 

Anyway, for those out there what think I'm just another jerkoff homeowner I'm not touching the service. I'm too busy working. It was merely a thought and I like to learn. There's a chance down the road I'll do it myself but we'll see. I already have a building on my property sans permit and zoning approval so I don't need any other issues. Pulling a permit might be a safe bet. 

Anyway thanks for the information. Happy 2013 and stay safe!


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

woodchuck2 said:


> ...... How many amps do those transformers put out anyway? .........


Older resi-area transformers: up to 10,000. Newer ones: up to 22,000.

Look at a breaker. It will say either 10k or 22k.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

lifestooshort81 said:


> Hi folks. Before I ask my question here, I just want to point out what I'm going to ask is probably going to get a lot of replies such as "hire a licensed electrician". I'm a licensed contractor but years ago i spent a long time working for a licensed electrician so I'm familiar with doing electrical work just as much as a license guy. That being said this is for my own home, not a customers or anywhere I can be liable except for myself.
> 
> I need to do a service change on my home. I want to upgrade to a 200 amp panel and therefor need to change the service entrance cable and meter pan. The only thing holding me up is how to bug the service wires without an expensive crimper that I would otherwise have no use for after this job. Are there other products out there I can use like a splice bolt for example I can use on 4/0 aluminum service cable? I know the "right" and best way to do it is with crimp bugs but I have seen guys change services with other means, albeit it may not be "code" but it worked. I just didn't see what actual device they used to splice the wiring. I've even seen one guy use a metal Romex connector. Ok that may have been a bit of jig-rig but as I said prior, it worked and still is I'm service.
> 
> ...


You don't care about code? The NEC is the minimum standards for things to be safe. Also how did you even pull the meter if your not a licensed electrician? I don't know many POCOs that allow homeowners to be pulling meters and tieing in services for good reason.


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## lifestooshort81 (Sep 8, 2012)

realelectrician said:


> You don't care about code? The NEC is the minimum standards for things to be safe. Also how did you even pull the meter if your not a licensed electrician? I don't know many POCOs that allow homeowners to be pulling meters and tieing in services for good reason.


Before you ridicule me for not doing things "to code" it properly please go back and read the ENTIRE thread including posters replies and my follow ups. You'll see You are misinterpreting what I originally said.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

lifestooshort81 said:


> Haha yeah I don't need to shorten my life any more than it may potentially be. LOL
> 
> As for bugging being the responsibility of the power company I'm not sure how that goes here in Jersey. Maybe the electrical contractor I worked for did it regardless? He had the proper big crimper though; similar looking to a nicopress crimper. My understanding (and it's just that), the POCO only is responsible to the house. The service hookup is homeowner responsibility albeit 99.9% of homeowners would just call a licensed/professional electrician.
> 
> ...


That's what most DIYers think. When you are up on that ladder you have to be focused on a lot more than just standing on a fiberglass ladder and shocking yourself. You have to worry more about arc faults more then you do shocking yourself. Remember the bare neutral/messenger wire will always be in your face. And when you say "heavy insulated gloves" you probably think these









:laughing::no:


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

lifestooshort81 said:


> Before you ridicule me for not doing things "to code" it properly please go back and read the ENTIRE thread including posters replies and my follow ups. You'll see You are misinterpreting what I originally said.


You flat out said "i don't care about code". I didn't misinterpret anything.

Code is the minimum safest way to do things.


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