# What CT means (IMO)



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

silvertree said:


> Mike, you can build to perfection, but you probably don't do perfect work.
> 
> The first is an ideal, the second is a cage.
> 
> ...


I love myself, and I still build to perfection and it doesn't drive me crazy, it drives me to learn, to grow, to reach, to coach, to prod, to push.

And I like it. 

A lot.

I like to stand at the top of the heap, I love it when customers tell me we are f'n awesome, your guys are freak'n the best, your tile setter was fantastic. Stroke me baby, it's music to my ears. 

Why would that not be your goal, why bother getting out of bed if not?

Mediocrity sucks.

Remember Rain man - K-mart Sucks. 

Who wants to be K-mart?

And I really like it when the check gets deposited in the bank too. That's the best validation of customers agreeing with me.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Tinstaafl said:


> A) Client is happy.
> B) I wouldn't be embarrassed if the client told someone I did it.


That sometimes isn't possible to do with some budgets, this I am learning. 

I think aluminum conductors are crap but it looks like I have to join the crap electricians in order to make some money. 

This seriously irritates me.


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## HusqyPro (Aug 3, 2009)

rbsremodeling said:


> wtf are you talking about? :laughing:


What I'm trying to say is there's different types of construction.

Some are in trades where they provide shelter, a necessity, to people of all income brackets.

Others are in trades or markets where they provide luxury items. Things like custom decks, pools/spas, entertainment systems, outdoor living spaces, landscaping, luxury bathrooms, gourmet kitchens, water features, etc. Things that aren't necessary to basic shelter, but make a basic shelter more comfortable and beautiful.

Koi ponds are a luxury. For people with disposable income. Like Savile Row suits, Mercedes Benz sedans, Rolex watches, Gulfstream jets, yachts, etc.

When you're in the business of selling luxury items (like Koi ponds) you can't expect to be able to sell them to everyone. There needs to be a bar set. Those that can afford it get one, those that can't don't. You don't build cheaper and cheaper. It defeats the point of it being a luxury item.

It's like Ford. There's millions of them on the road. They're nice cars but they're not exclusive. Bugatti is an exclusive brand. A luxury item. If Bugatti build a car that competed with the Focus on price that would cheapen the exclusivity of the Bugatti brand.

It's the same thing with Koi ponds. Keeping Koi is a hobby for those with disposable income.

Better?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

In my Best Rain Man Voice: Yeah that Mike is bit crazy, yeah Mike's crazy.

Why do you need to be validated? Cashing a check validates you? 

Why would I need my ego stroked at 40?

Interesting comments posted by all to night, very interesting.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

mccarty.74 said:


> I don't think any of us do anything intentionally wrong. If you care enough to get on this site, after you've clocked out, you have a respect for your trade and and a desire to advance your skill set. Quite frankly, when I do post pictures of my work (can't do it yet) if nobody beats the hell out of me for my mistakes I'll be pissed. If everyone applauds my work, I'll develop a sense of complacency and if you can fool yourself into believing you're the BEST... well then you're totally wrong. The beauty of this site is that everyone tears into each other for the smallest imperfections and it betters you as a contractor or businessman. All hail CT.


Well said McCarty! :thumbsup:


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

silvertree said:


> Mike, you can build to perfection, but you probably don't do perfect work.
> 
> The first is an ideal, the second is a cage.
> 
> ...


Silvertree... you should write hallmark cards... 

I think I'm going to cry... :laughing:


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

rbsremodeling said:


> In my Best Rain Man Voice: Yeah that Mike is bit crazy, yeah Mike's crazy.
> 
> Why do you need to be validated? Cashing a check validates you?
> 
> ...



In my mind one day I'll be working for a GC like Mike because I strive to deliver the very best. I've worked for some bad ones while working for other people so I like to think I know what to look for in a GC but you never know until you do a job or two. But like you said it really all comes down to who's buying Ferrari's and who's buying Volkswagon's.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

ChrWright said:


> Silvertree... you should write hallmark cards...
> 
> I think I'm going to cry... :laughing:


I've been crying! When I hug my cp I am hugging all of you!
Huh?...
What?....
I'm sorry.....
What?........


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

silvertree said:


> Mike, you can build to perfection, but you probably don't do perfect work.
> 
> The first is an ideal, the second is a cage.
> 
> ...


Damn, 
another Minnesota poet. :clap::laughing:

:thumbsup:


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm not mediocre and I agree K-Mart sucks.

I play music, its a hobby now but I made a living doing it at one time. What is great about being a musician is the control you have over your elements, you always go for the perfect note, and you hit it. When you hit the perfect note its all yours, and then its gone.

You start the process all over again, you were just perfect, now your not.

Mike you build to perfection, you get pride, your tile guy gets pride and the customers love you and the value you provide.

Your not doing anything different than most of us here. Do you think I've never heard that from my subs and customers. I got over 35 years of it. Even when I was starting out I gave 100%. It was the least I could do and still be proud of my work. I also have done "Meatball Carpentry", a term I coined to describe what the budget allowed, I felt pride in that also and was praised for that work too. At first it embarrassed me, then I came to understand that I was exceeding peoples expectations when I wasn't meeting mine.

I think you deserve your pride, but your pretty hard on the guys coming up, the guys doing honest work to the best of their ability. They are as devoted and important as you.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

rbsremodeling said:


> In my Best Rain Man Voice: Yeah that Mike is bit crazy, yeah Mike's crazy.
> 
> Why do you need to be validated? Cashing a check validates you?


Cashing those checks validates that the business model and philosophy works, and works very well.



rbsremodeling said:


> Why would I need my ego stroked at 40?
> 
> Interesting comments posted by all to night, very interesting.


Cause I do. 

Do you know any professional sales people? I mean REAL salespeople. Guys who kill everybody else. You know those 20s out of the 80/20 rule. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the 4s. 

Here is the math so you know what I'm talking about.

Take 100, apply the 80/20 - take those 20 and then apply it again, you get 4.

Find yourself one of them that isn't just like me. You won't be able to do it.

They are all like me. That's why I am what I am. If you aren't one of those 4 you can't understand it. No way to when you are looking from the outside looking in.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> In my mind one day I'll be working for a GC like Mike because I strive to deliver the very best. I've worked for some bad ones while working for other people so I like to think I know what to look for in a GC but you never know until you do a job or two. But like you said it really all comes down to who's buying Ferrari's and who's buying Volkswagon's.



I agree with you about working for great GC's; I have worked for some and think I am one.

I treat everyone around me better than I probably treat myself. I am easily satisfied though

But he lost me on the money thing *only Pimps and Hoe's* think money is the be all and end all.

I don't want to be either of those


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

rbsremodeling said:


> I agree with you about working for great GC's; I have worked for some and think I am one.
> 
> I treat everyone around me better than I probably treat myself. I am easily satisfied though
> 
> ...


"But baby... ain't no one gonna take care of you like I do... That otha builder's gonna use you... he ain't got the love fo' you like I do..."


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

silvertree said:


> I'm not mediocre and I agree K-Mart sucks.
> 
> I play music, its a hobby now but I made a living doing it at one time. What is great about being a musician is the control you have over your elements, you always go for the perfect note, and you hit it. When you hit the perfect note its all yours, and then its gone.
> 
> ...


I have a name for "Guys doing honest work to the best of their ability" - fantastic potential employees or subs for me. And that's not meant to be condescending in any way.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ChrWright said:


> "But baby... ain't no one gonna take care of you like I do... That otha builder's gonna use you... he ain't got the love fo' you like I do..."


that's pretty good Dolemite:laughing:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

S Winklepleck said:


> Good point, but my stance remains. You're right, I'm new, and I've given the "offenders" if you will the benefit of the doubt as well. Like I said, if he's not "Pro" then he's arrogant for saying he is, BUT the point remains that the people doing the bashing are no better for their lack of constructive response. I just don't see the point of posting in a thread where someone asked for help if your post isn't going to be helpful.



i only read about a dozen posts
in that thread.
There have been plenty of the same,
there will be plenty more.
I think the problem you're 
overlooking there is, the guy
only started to do his research
before he began the project.
There were other products 
available, if he had done his 
due diligence.
Some of you guys have no idea
how much easier it is to find
and research products, applications,
and techniques than it was
just a very few years ago.
Kinda makes it a sin to just dip 
into a place like this, expect 
instantaneous answers, and
proceed blindly if you don't get
complete one stop information 
within 24 hours.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Cashing those checks validates that the business model and philosophy works, and works very well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_Glengarry Glen Ross?_


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

rbsremodeling said:


> But he lost me on the money thing *only Pimps and Hoe's* think money is the be all and end all.
> 
> I don't want to be either of those


Only people who don't have money think there is some mythical limiting financial earning range that you should fall into and if you're being substantially rewarded as a direct result of your hard work you are a pimp or hoe.


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

thom said:


> Some people drive Cadillacs, some Yugos. That means some people must build Cadillacs and some must build Yugos.
> 
> Sure, the guy building the Caddy is probably doing higher quality craftsmanship than the guy building the Yugo BUT, telling the Yugo client he can't have a car till he can afford a Caddy is arrogant.
> 
> ...


And what happens when they can't afford the Yugo?

Bob said it best.

Not everyone can have "stuff".

What happens when there isn't enough in the budget to do it right? Even on the absolute minimum end?

I turned down work last week, and God knows I need it right it now.

Why?

HO bought a high end property during the boom. Then the economy tanked. The property is worth about half what he paid for it. Still, it's $3M property. He lives out of state, so he's getting killed in property tax. The palce only has a guest cottage on it so far, so it's hard for him, especially in this economy, to rent it for enough to even caover the property taxes.

He currently has it on the market, and it will be a while before it sells. He called me for lawn maintenance. i gave him a price for full maintenance services: mowing, weeding, fertilizing, maintaining the flower beds and hedges. Told him tree pruning would be extra. LOTS of fruit trees and coconut trees on the property.

He didn't like my price, and asked me if I could just mow once a month for $xxx which was 25% of what I quoted him and that was still more than he "wanted to spend" and "you could trim trees and other stuff in the extra time you have after mowing sometimes". 

WTF? i told him that would be extra. He said something about some months the grass grows slower, so I should be able to mow faster, and that's where I would have extra (free) time.

I told him there was absolutely no way in hell that property could be maintained like that. He told me that he had someone give him a price for that.

I pointed to hime that the person that gave him that quote would:

1. Ignore the flower beds, hedges, etc...
2. Ignore the trees
3. Show with a farm tractor towing a shredder to mow his estate quality lawn as if it were a pasture. 

And finally, that if he went for that deal, his lawn would soon be looking apasture and the three + acres of beautiful lawn will be end up a hodge podge of weeds and various grasses within six months, further devaluing his property.

He still didn't get. He asked me if I would give him a price to just show up and mow once a month, nothing else. When I declined, he asked me why. I had to explain to him that people are going to see my truck with my name on it in front of that property while I'm working on it, and why that would not be good for my business.

So there's a little more to it than "working to the best of your abilities and following codes and doing it right" with the budget you've been presented.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

neolitic said:


> _Glengarry Glen Ross?_


No just Mike off his Meds :laughing:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

mccarty.74 said:


> EZ... MZ. Nobody is trying to insult you, intentionally. I'm a newbie, too, and it's about paying your dues. Nobody responds to 90% of my posts, and I'm okay with it. Look at their initiation date and realize that any jerkoff homeowner can register online and just assume to be part of the club. As with anything, you have to prove you belong. Patience is a virtue.


Hey, you only started 3 threads.
Got @ 39 replies in one, 59
in another, and.......
who knows where you can buy
yellow tin these days? :laughing:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

ChainsawCharlie said:


> .............


I told you,
I never read your posts. :laughing:


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

silvertree said:


> Tomorrows another day.












Damn it, I'm running out of tissue... :laughing:


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

mccarty.74 said:


> EZ... MZ. Nobody is trying to insult you, intentionally. I'm a newbie, too, and it's about paying your dues. Nobody responds to 90% of my posts, and I'm okay with it. Look at their initiation date and realize that any jerkoff homeowner can register online and just assume to be part of the club. As with anything, you have to prove you belong. Patience is a virtue.


There you go now you can say you have been quoted by a seasoned vet. Now you feel better? :jester:


HusqyPro said:


> People just don't understand what goes into landscaping.
> 
> Let's start with the equipment. If you're doing tree work too it's really big bucks. Hell my big ZTR cost $15,000. $800 for a string trimmer, hedge trimmers, it adds up fast. There's a tremendous amount of money tied up in equipment. Most of it runs on gas, all of it requires maintenance, it's all going to need replaced eventually.
> 
> ...


Yep Landscapers are even below painters on the pecking order.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

ChrWright said:


> Damn it, I'm running out of tissue... :laughing:



"Frankly my dear,....."
:laughing:


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> I may not be as good as you and know all the GREEK names for the greens but who cares... the plants and flowers all have tags I can read and decide if they need Full sun, shade, lots of water or to be left alone.



There's a little more to it than that. Do you know what disease or pests they are prone to? How about hardiness zones? Soil conditions...More often than not, the HO wants the landscaper to recommend plants. They'll point to the dark side of their house under silk oak tree and ask what they can plant there to help stop the erosion on the 30 degree slope. What do you recommend?

I'm not looking to argue with you Manny. Honestly. But a flippant comment like that is slap in the face to an experienced pro in their trade.

If I said "I can read a paint can and paint a house AND do it cheaper than you" to a professional painter, I'd be living in fear of a having a paint roller jammed up my ass.

Which leads to the question How can you do it cheaper than someone else?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Workaholic said:


> ..........
> Yep Landscapers are even below painters on the pecking order.


...and the painter always
screwed it up! :laughing:


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

neolitic said:


> "Frankly my dear,....."
> :laughing:


That'll be the eulogy for this thread when it finally gets put out of its misery... :whistling


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

neolitic said:


> ...and the painter always
> screwed it up! :laughing:


It is payback from all the sparky's. It runs downhill you know. :laughing:


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Yep Landscapers are even below painters on the pecking order.


Don't go thinking I didn't see that.

:ninja:


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

ChainsawCharlie said:


> Don't go thinking I didn't see that.
> 
> :ninja:


 Not you Charlie. :whistling


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Still? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissing%20in%20my%20cheerios


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## HusqyPro (Aug 3, 2009)

Charlie is the man. He's a landscaper in Hawaii. Other than billionaire play boy is there a better job on this planet? He gets to wear Hawaiin shirts to work, get some sun, and gets paid for it. After work he chills on the beach with an umbrella drink. Charlie is the man. All hail Charlie.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Work is nothing more or less than exchanging skills for money.

I did a job 4 years ago where I installed salvaged doors and made a French door for my customer. It was butt ugly and I couldn't get her to buy new stuff. It was a referral so I did the job.

2 weeks ago I get a call for about a 25K bath, decent job in Mpls right now. All because I did Meatball Carpentry job for this lady and made her happy.

Who reached a higher level of professionalism, the Meatball Carpenter who made a silk purse out of a sows ear, or the guy who delivered a showpiece with a generous budget.
Both the same in my opinion, if anything it took greater patience, understanding and skill to do the Meatball job.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Still? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissing%20in%20my%20cheerios


At least I didn't 
piss in the fish pond. :whistling


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

HusqyPro said:


> Charlie is the man. He's a landscaper in Hawaii. Other than billionaire play boy is there a better job on this planet? He gets to wear Hawaiin shirts to work, get some sun, see chicks in bikinis, and gets paid for it. After work he chills on the beach with an umbrella drink. Charlie is the man. All hail Charlie.


Yeah but can you imagine all those blackmale pics the Chinese have of him planting Mrs. Swanson in the reclining lawn chair out back near the pool?


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

MZ, I stand corrected, apparently they were insulting you. I wasn't but, Neolitic-Obama, said that we were insulting you so that's how DEMOCRACY goes. Sorry about your luck.


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

We must follow his lead.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

mccarty.74 said:


> MZ, I stand corrected, apparently they were insulting you. I wasn't but, Neolitic-Obama, said that we were insulting you so that's how DEMOCRACY goes. Sorry about your luck.


Could you explain
any part of that?


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

mccarty.74 said:


> MZ, I stand corrected, apparently they were insulting you. I wasn't but, *Neolitic-Obama,* said that we were insulting you so that's how DEMOCRACY goes. Sorry about your luck.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> That would have been today at 9:30 this morning when I walked on the job site and saw what a kick ass job my guys had done from the day before. Then again about 11:00 when my electrician was putting the finishing touches on his electrical and again at 11:30 when the plumber was wrapping up his excellent job he did for us in record time. Again at 2:00 after I met the glass company at different job site and got to see for the first time the awesome tile work the tile setters had completed the day before.
> 
> See, what you need to do is think logically.
> 
> ...


Mike, I'm just quoting you
so that he can see it. :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

mccarty.74 said:


> Neolitic, generally whatever you say goes without question. . It's really not a slight in your direction. You are a shepherd. I do not question your knowledge.


 See now you are catching on. when things are not fitting in exactly, force it. :jester:


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Neolitic, I'm not sure how I wronged you, but if you're calling me out I'm pretty confident in my own verbal abilities. If this is just part of the hazing process, BRING IT ON!


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> When your financial freedom comes at the expense of others... You could never "REST IN PEACE"!
> 
> May I ask you a question...seriously.
> 
> ...


Mike sounds pretty picky to me. (My kind of guy)
You don't keep good help around very long if there is not some sort of pat on the back from the boss every now and then.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Well, I can't "Quote" you while I have you on ignore...

As far as "Under the table goes" I don't work under the table. My wife and I keep track of every job, every penny every mile. If the HO doesn't claim it, thats not my problem because I will! As far as Licenses and insurance goes. What the hell is it to you Jumbojack. I'm not working on your house! And my insurance is my business... 

I've mentioned before that I WAS AN INSURANCE SALESMAN...No, (TOP OF THE LINE) Insurance salesman.... Ya think maybe I know a thing or two about the subject? Ya think maybe I got some insurance on even some off the wall possibilities? 

As far as linces go... What licenses are going to lie and say you have? It's usually the ones who don't have something that always want to prove someone else doesn't have it... It's called "DISTRACTION!"

Speaking of DISTRACTION ... What does CT mean to you?!


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

HusqyPro said:


> Good one.
> 
> So Charlie are you going to regale us with stories of landscaping in Hawaii? The idyllic sunsets, beautiful people on the beach, what your favorite pattern of Hawaiin shirt is, what your favorite umbrella drink is, so on and so forth.
> 
> In my mind your life is like Hawaii 5-0 with a weed eater.


You know those plant guides that say things like "grows 10-12 inches/year, mature height 5-7 feet?

Well over here, it's about 3-4 inches/month 30ft maturity.

Philodendrons...Housewives put them in macrame and are so proud of them when they trail along at 8 feet or more....

Pffftttt....I've swung from 100 foot philos with 12 inch diameter.

This month, with our rain and sun cycles, you can literally watch the grass grow. Some lanes I'm doing after just five days.

Can you put an umbrella in a rum and coke?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

mccarty.74 said:


> Neolitic, I'm not sure how I wronged you, but if you're calling me out I'm pretty confident in my own verbal abilities. If this is just part of the hazing process, BRING IT ON!


I am genuinely confused.
Really man, I don't know 
what I did to upset you.
That is the honest truth.


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## HusqyPro (Aug 3, 2009)

I would like to thank all the contractors that are registered and *pay their taxes*. Without taxpayers like you I probably wouldn't be alive today.

When I had my heart attack in Antarctica it probably cost Uncle Sam a few million to save my life.

First I had to flown off the ship in a USCG helicopter to McMurdo Station.($$)

At the station hospital they had state of the art equipment to restart and stabilize my heart. ($$$)

Then I had to be loaded back on the helicopter and flown to the Ross Ice Shelf airfield. ($$)

From there a Air Force C-130 flew me to Christchurch New Zealand along with a doctor and 2 nurses. ($$$$)

I stayed in the hospital there for a few days before my condition worsened and I had to be Life Flighted to Sydney Australia. ($$$$)

I stayed in Sydney for almost a week and had some minor surgery done. ($$$$$)

Then Uncle Sam sent a Life Flight jet from San Diego to Sydney to fly me to the Navy Hospital at Honolulu. ($$$$$)

Stayed at that hospital over a month and had open heart surgery. ($$$$)

Then a Life Flight jet took me to the Navy Hospital in Bremerton WA for 3 months of physical therapy and recovery. ($$$$$$)

So paying taxes might suck. But those tax dollars saved my life, if you guys hadn't paid into the system then the money wouldn't have been there to save my life. I wouldn't be here typing this to you all.

So thanks a lot guys. I mean it. Bravo Zulu to all you taxpayers.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I like to think of Charlie usually in two ways.

Number one is tip toeing gleefully with a pair of prunning scissors, through his private "hemp" farm which is hidden in the far back overgrown corner of a property he maintains for some rich mainlander.

Or riding around in a red Ferrari with Higgins swearing and shaking his fist in the driveway at him.


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Why ignore anybody? If you can't fend for yourself you will never last on this website.... or a jobsite.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

mccarty.74 said:


> Why ignore anybody?


I thought the same thing. Even if you don't like someone then you might miss out on something they will contribute later on. It is not like you are face to face with that person. Its like the radio.... don't like it turn the knob. If you don't like the poster..... scroll down faster.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> I like to think of Charlie usually in two ways.
> 
> Number one is tip toeing gleefully with a pair of prunning scissors, through his private "hemp" farm which is hidden in the far back overgrown corner of a property he maintains for some rich mainlander.
> 
> Or riding around in a red Ferrari with Higgins swearing and shaking his fist in the driveway at him.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> That would have been today at 9:30 this morning when I walked on the job site and saw what a kick ass job my guys had done from the day before. Then again about 11:00 when my electrician was putting the finishing touches on his electrical and again at 11:30 when the plumber was wrapping up his excellent job he did for us in record time. Again at 2:00 after I met the glass company at different job site and got to see for the first time the awesome tile work the tile setters had completed in the steam shower the day before.
> 
> See, what you need to do is think logically.
> 
> ...


...Yeah, I'm sure you actually PAT ANYONE ON THE BACK... You are self centered and egotistical, all you care about is the money, You've proven that by what you say and how you present yourself. I'm not the only one who has seen it, thats why you get the comments and questions you do. Look at your life and see if you like what you see... I don't like what I see in you But I can sleep well and live with myself because I never use other people... Unlike you I have a conscience. Thats why I left the Insurance Business. It cost me a whole different way of living but I sleep well, Do you?

Damn...Lets SOT take the sillyness to the chat room so no one else has to see us misbehaving, You guys bring out the worst in people.

WHAT DOES CT MEAN TO YOU? Answer the Q or STFU!


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Well, I can't "Quote" you while I have you on ignore...


Obviously you want to converse, so cut the ignore BS. You have us on ignore, yet you respond. What's the point of ignoring then?



> As far as "Under the table goes" I don't work under the table. My wife and I keep track of every job, every penny every mile.


Keeping track and reporting-apples, oranges.



> If the HO doesn't claim it, thats not my problem because I will!


 They don't necessarily have to. You say you do...OK then. 



> As far as Licenses and insurance goes. What the hell is it to you Jumbojack. I'm not working on your house! And my insurance is my business...


I was the one that brought that stuff up. And it matters to EACH AND EVERY INSURED AND LICENSED CONTRACTOR OUT THERE.

You run w/o insurance and something goes drastically wrong. Who'sd going to cover 6-7 figures worth of liability? It's bull **** like that that gives the legit guys a bad name and casts a negative light on contractors in general.



> I've mentioned before that I WAS AN INSURANCE SALESMAN...No, (TOP OF THE LINE) Insurance salesman.... Ya think maybe I know a thing or two about the subject?


I used to sell tobacco. I have extensive knowledge of tobacco and tobacco laws. But I don't sell it anymore. And guess what-I DON'T HAVE ANY TOBACCO! It doesn't matter what you used to do. It's what you you are oing now, and HOW you are doing it.



> Ya think maybe I got some insurance on even some off the wall possibilities?


if you say do, that's good enough for me. If I hire you, you better be prepared to prove it.



> As far as linces go... What licenses are going to lie and say you have?


I wouldn't claim to have something I don't. If I tell you that I have licenses for landscaping and tree trimming and removal, it's because I have those licenses. 



> and It's usually the ones who don't have something that always want to prove someone else doesn't have it... It's called "DISTRACTION!"


Well, I don't have an electrical license, but if I hired an electrician who claimed to be licensed, , I would ask to see it. Not to prove he doesn't have, but just to make sure that I am protected if something goes wrong. It has nothing to do with distraction.



> Speaking of DISTRACTION ... What does CT mean to you?!


Charlie Talk!!:laughing:


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Neo, in # 81 you quoted my post stats. Something about that doesn't sit right with me (I already crossed this bridge with JumboJack, and it turned us enemies sooner than it should have). I've not set out to be the advesary of anyone on here, but once challenged I respond accordingly.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

I want to offer my appologies for how I'm behaving... Again, Some folks just bring out the worst in people.

MY APPOLOGIES!
CT ROCKS!


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

ChainsawCharlie said:


> I was the one that brought that stuff up. And it matters to EACH AND EVERY INSURED AND LICENSED CONTRACTOR OUT THERE.
> 
> You run w/o insurance and something goes drastically wrong. Who'sd going to cover 6-7 figures worth of liability? It's bull **** like that that gives the legit guys a bad name and casts a negative light on contractors in general...


That is the one thing that many are overlooking.It is a big deal and it is hurting our industry.


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

ha friggin ha!!! contractor talk... nothing like it... bunch of fat head blow hards getting their rocks off by blowin spew at any one who'll listen. That's why i got on here... to show that i enjoy what i do, i think im king sh*&t at most everything i do. I wanna be proven wrong so i can take your skills and apply them to my self and become better than everyone else i know. And for what reason? To be the best. Yeah, there's always better, but who wants to really compare measureing sticks with me? C'mon fellas whip em out....didnt think so.

We're all guilty of assumption. And we shouldnt judge too harshly. But judge certainly, that's how we all benefit and learn. Sounds as if someone tossed somebody a tounge lashin for bein a hack, i hate a hack. I want to whip hack witha board and a rusty nail. A hack to me is a fella that shorts the customer... If you're doing that you need a beatin, now dont you? Don't do it. Just dont friggin do it. Give the customer what they want, as long as it's right and safe, but dont half ass sh*%t to save your self a buck. Yeah, i'm a perfectionist too. Nothin wrong with that. Just ask my customers. Sometimes a job doesnt measure up to what i call perfect and it friggin eats a hole right thru me. I havent done a perfect job yet either. But i have a fine eye, when i finally do... you bet i'll sure tell everyone about it. Until then we owe it to ourselves to do the best we can and preserve the reputation of the freelance handyman. Shotty contrators especially GC's can bite my arse.... cheap skate crooks. i have more skill in my little finger nail than they'll ever have the chance to even learn, but since i can't bare to cheat any one i can never ascend to that position and become a whole home builder. I dont make enough money in this little town to get started. I can do the work, i got no capitol to move to that level. Any good GC's around Cullman, Al looking to partner up and take this thing to new heights? i have a portfolio that will make your mouth water. I've done prettier stuff than you'll ever see in magazines. Still i only can make around 40k a year here. But the folks are good, the work is honest and i sleep on a good conscience every night. Can i get an amen? Keep it rough and forsake any pleasantries. A real contractor should be able to handle the heat, a real man should be able to admit he's wrong too. They're only words, tho you cant take em back, they still wont matter in 100 years anyway. I love shop talk. The dirtier the better. that gives the day a comedic relief for me. Now go fetch me that board before i use this one to split yer dome. Great sharing, you guys, beautiful teamwork you guys, how about a group hug?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

mccarty.74 said:


> Neo, in # 81 you quoted my post stats. Something about that doesn't sit right with me (I already crossed this bridge with JumboJack, and it turned us enemies sooner than it should have). I've not set out to be the advesary of anyone on here, but once challenged I respond accordingly.


Okay, that makes 
some kind of sense.
I was just pointing out that 
people *had* in fact responded
to your posts.
You made some reference to
being ignored 'cause you're new.
That didn't seem like such a 
shaggy response to your threads.
It wasn't a challenge...
more like an attaboy. :laughing:
Cool?


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## HusqyPro (Aug 3, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Financial freedom.
> 
> I'll be dead a long time, so I'd really like to be able to attain financial freedom with enough time left to concentrate on another phase of life.
> 
> That's all.


Kind of what I'm after. Enough money coming in that I don't have to work.

What I'd like is to own several rental properties. Nice ones. I don't want to do the slumlord thing with low income housing.

Moscow and Pullman are good towns to own rental property in. UofI and WSU. Lots of guest professors for a semester or two.

There's a really great property management company in Moscow. Team Idaho. They'll handle all the renting on any properties I own for a percentage.

The houses I'm looking at buying to rent cost north of $150K. They'll rent for $1200+ a month. Even with Team Idaho taking a percentage, and the ex-wife taking 16.8% I'd still do well if I had enough of them.

Right now I'm putting money away for one. I figure buying one for cash is best. I don't want payments every month.

That's more or less the plan. I'd like to grow the landscaping biz to the point I own 10 or more nice rental properties.

After that, I'm buying an RV. Going to spend my days traveling the US and Canada. Seeing all the sights I can. Visiting CT members jobsites with bratwurst and beer.

I actually have my dream RV picked out. The Conquest SuperNova 6400.

http://www.conquestmotorhomes.com/products/supernova/supernova-home.htm

40 feet of luxury motorhome complete with gas fire place. Sweet.

Anyway that's my dream.Now pick it apart and tell me I'm a fool you heartless bastards. :laughing:


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

WTF? 1st, Nathan makes a girly forum. Then we get all touchy feely, huggy, huggy and then the thread with the peer group stuff? You guys turning gay on me? Not, that, that is wrong or anything if that's your thing but I'd just like to know, to see if I should leave or not?!

Not to be totally against this new 'area' you're experimenting in, I just painted my new workshop PURPLE! Now, I may just qualify to join the new in ranks.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Alrighty!!.. Get back to work everyone!.. I had enuff of recent CT's old soap operas & Oprah's new daily drama Queens!! LMAO... :whistling:no: :laughing:


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

modernstlye, you sir, i like. I would imagine that you are a great business owner. Your beliefs are like mine. The dollar amount of the job is not as important as the satisfaction of the owner of the home. AS far as Being "real" you are on the right track. Keep at it, small jobs are just as important as big ones. Sometimes a smaller job under the belt is worth more in referrals because so many guys think they have to hunt only the big jobs and turn away small/odd jobs. My experience is that the cheap fixes that make a home owners life go on are the one's that get them talkng about how glad they were someone finally showed up and fixed their problem. That guy being me with a smile on my face and a few bucks in my pocket. The economy has me fixing toilets and swappin water heaters. Mostly for old folks. Gotta love our old folks. Ge especially good to them. Thaey are carrying me right now. I work cheap as piss for them too, i make no bones about telling them either... I dont work at this price for just any one i tell them. And i dont. Poor as i may be i still do some work for free. All i can really. Those jobs mean the most to me. Give back. If you believe in God and the whole bit as i do... it's important to give back.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

21gun said:


> Poor as i may be i still do some work for free. All i can really. Those jobs mean the most to me. Give back. If you believe in God and the whole bit as i do... it's important to give back.


I just made a door for a *BIG* church in Flint, Michigan. All nice wood inlays with little hidden items waiting to suprise the unsuspecting. When lo and behold some old fart minister painted it green! 

2 months of work shot down by an old fart!:shutup:


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Cdat said:


> I just made a door for a *BIG* church in Flint, Michigan. All nice wood inlays with little hidden items waiting to suprise the unsuspecting. When lo and behold some old fart minister painted it green!
> 
> 2 months of work shot down by an old fart!:shutup:


Man, that would cheese me off. 

My last job I had to order some shutters to replace the old smashed ones on the house. All I could get was cedar, $600 worth of beautiful, hand made cedar shutters, and I painted them green within minutes of unpacking them.:shutup:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Cdat said:


> I just made a door for a *BIG* church in Flint, Michigan. All nice wood inlays with little hidden items waiting to suprise the unsuspecting. When lo and behold some old fart minister painted it green!
> 
> 2 months of work shot down by an old fart!:shutup:


He must not have gotten to
the part about,
"I once was blind, but *now*
I see...." :sad:
Too bad.


----------



## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

If he was a paying customer, I'd not care but since this was out of the little bit of kindness I have in my cold black heart, it 'irked' me a tad bit. Made me want to go and kick a puppy.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> None of us should worry about what anybody thinks except our customers themselves, they are what should matter most, making them happy. I couldnt give a crap less about what anyone other then the customer thinks, their happiness is my goal, and thats what being a quality contractor means to me.


My town is a small town and most all the contractors around here know each other. Same goes for most all the people that live here. So yes I want my work to be the best that is offered. When someone comes to another contractor who does not do that certain line of work or that is too busy at the time I want them to refer me. That happens alot in this small town.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

Hey dickweed next time when you quote me quote the whole fing thing. 

Must be nice to live in areas where you can pick and choose your jobs and have ppl with endless money. I dont know how many times we've been on jobs that were screwed up by someone else and the homeowner says "the monies almost gone do the best you can to make this work for now". Is it done right everytime? Nope but what are you to do, not work at all? That might be great for some of you but i cant make it happen. So be it call me a hack or whatever you want but sometimes you can leave a job that might not be done to the perfect spec. As long as its safe and the homeowner understands it might not be a long term solution whats a person to do?

By quoting a select part of a post you can really change the tone and meaning of something. We do everything we do to code and beyond. There is never a time when we leave a job thats in danger of causing personal injury or property dmg. Have you ever had the pleasure of working for a senior citizen on a fixed income who got completely hosed by some fly by night band of gypsies who sold em used windows advertised as new? You cant replace em with new they already spent half a years income on junk. All you can do is caulk em up try and fix the trim that they raped during install while saving these ppl as much as you can.

I know some of you looking down on your pedastal are gonna say "Rawr they should have to pay, charge what a jobs worth and do it right" Huff puff and your ego inflates even more and you pat yourself on the back. But whatever none of you have seen my work and you'll prolly never see my work so you'll make judgement on something you dont deal with or understand. In 15 years ive had at most 2 unsatisfied customers.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

jkfox624 said:


> Hey dickweed next time when you quote me quote the whole fing thing.
> 
> Must be nice to live in areas where you can pick and choose your jobs and have ppl with endless money. I dont know how many times we've been on jobs that were screwed up by someone else and the homeowner says "the monies almost gone do the best you can to make this work for now". Is it done right everytime? Nope but what are you to do, not work at all? That might be great for some of you but i cant make it happen. So be it call me a hack or whatever you want but sometimes you can leave a job that might not be done to the perfect spec. As long as its safe and the homeowner understands it might not be a long term solution whats a person to do?
> 
> ...


Dickweed here.

Did you not read the title? Those three letters at the end mean;
In My Opinion
What you just posted has happened to all of us. To say that it has not would be a lie. Also we all have to make some of this at least a little about ego or else we all would do sh!++y work. There has been jobs when money has been lost just to do it right. Now you and alot of people will say "Must be nice", well the answer is "no" it is not nice. You lost some money. It flat out sucks. But to feel great about the job you did is priceless. On top of that you will know no matter who sees it they will be pleased with it. So the long term is you make even more money for going the extra mile. 

I am sure you are very good at what you do. I am no way questioning anybodies abilities. I am saying on a Pro site, the correct way should always be the first way. If it is communicated that that way can not be accomplished due to whatever reasons then other methods should be discussed. 

Once again this is all in my opinion.

Dickweed out.:thumbsup:


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

21gun said:


> Just realized the screen name and photo combo for Darwin.... You one of those aint no Jesus guys? Do i have a good joke for you... Interested? should we go to another forum or are we cool here?


Nawwww. I am a Christian--full fledged. Been in the church since a youngsta


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

jkfox624 said:


> Hey dickweed next time when you quote me quote the whole fing thing.
> 
> Must be nice to live in areas where you can pick and choose your jobs and have ppl with endless money. I dont know how many times we've been on jobs that were screwed up by someone else and the homeowner says "the monies almost gone do the best you can to make this work for now". Is it done right everytime? Nope but what are you to do, not work at all? That might be great for some of you but i cant make it happen. So be it call me a hack or whatever you want but sometimes you can leave a job that might not be done to the perfect spec. As long as its safe and the homeowner understands it might not be a long term solution whats a person to do?
> 
> ...


 

Well, post some pics then. It aint that hard. Most of us here are here to help, share and learn. Count to 10 dude. It will be OK.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

21gun said:


> modernstlye, you sir, i like. I would imagine that you are a great business owner. Your beliefs are like mine. The dollar amount of the job is not as important as the satisfaction of the owner of the home. AS far as Being "real" you are on the right track. Keep at it, small jobs are just as important as big ones. Sometimes a smaller job under the belt is worth more in referrals because so many guys think they have to hunt only the big jobs and turn away small/odd jobs. My experience is that the cheap fixes that make a home owners life go on are the one's that get them talkng about how glad they were someone finally showed up and fixed their problem. That guy being me with a smile on my face and a few bucks in my pocket. The economy has me fixing toilets and swappin water heaters. Mostly for old folks. Gotta love our old folks. Ge especially good to them. Thaey are carrying me right now. I work cheap as piss for them too, i make no bones about telling them either... I dont work at this price for just any one i tell them. And i dont. Poor as i may be i still do some work for free. All i can really. Those jobs mean the most to me. Give back. If you believe in God and the whole bit as i do... it's important to give back.


 You should of quoted where you were misquoted so i could find the dang post.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> You should of quoted where you were misquoted so i could find the dang post.


I was thinking the same thing......:blink:
I don't think it was in this thread....


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

The original quote that started this thread is a quote from one of my posts in HZ's pond thread. By leaving out the first 2-3 sentences of the original it completely changes the context of what was said. But instead it was made to seem that i go on every job and say "**** it im not doin it right, the homeowner doesnt care, so be it". Instead it was in response to HZ's stupid pond issue where he inherited a mess that the homeowner wanted a bandaid applied. I put the whole original quote as the second paragraph in 169, i figured ppl would of recognized the majority of it but notice the difference in it.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

jkfox624 said:


> The original quote that started this thread is a quote from one of my posts in HZ's pond thread. By leaving out the first 2-3 sentences of the original it completely changes the context of what was said. But instead it was made to seem that i go on every job and say "**** it im not doin it right, the homeowner doesnt care, so be it". Instead it was in response to HZ's stupid pond issue where he inherited a mess that the homeowner wanted a bandaid applied. I put the whole original quote as the second paragraph in 169, i figured ppl would of recognized the majority of it but notice the difference in it.


If it makes you feel any better I don't think anyone figured out who he was quoting...


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

JumboJack said:


> If it makes you feel any better I don't think anyone figured out who he was quoting...


nor really cared - he was making a point & not calling you out on it

FYI - full quotes or not, posts can still be misconstrued based on how one is reading them. Relax & have another one :drink:


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

I did not post the posters name because I was not targeting that poster.(jkfox624) It just happened to be the last post I read that I felt I wanted to say something about the general topic. 

So to jkfox624 this was not directed towards you. Sorry if I offended.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

Np i just saw something i wrote that wasnt fully quoted and i took it as a personal attack.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

jkfox624 said:


> The original quote that started this thread is a quote from one of my posts in HZ's pond thread. By leaving out the first 2-3 sentences of the original it completely changes the context of what was said. But instead it was made to seem that i go on every job and say "**** it im not doin it right, the homeowner doesnt care, so be it". Instead it was in response to HZ's stupid pond issue where he inherited a mess that the homeowner wanted a bandaid applied. I put the whole original quote as the second paragraph in 169, i figured ppl would of recognized the majority of it but notice the difference in it.


 
You know, I guess I'm the only guy on here who can read, cause I keep hearing this over and over again. That entire thread had a defense of contractors having to do the best of a bad situation, based on the example of MZ and his koi pond that the homeowner only wanted a band aid applied.

WTF is the malfunction?

I went back for myself just to make sure it really wasn't me that had missed it, but there isn't a single instance of anything stating the homeowner wanted a band aid applied.

When I point out that MZ is a hack loser cause of his bull sh*t hack techniques the defense is oh poor mz inherited a mess and the homeowner only wanted a bandaid...

You're full of sh*t. Go read the entire post. Nowhere did I see any mention of the homeowner saying this. All you have is MZ apply a bull sh*t hack attempt at fixing something based on nothing more then your typical handyman technique of I did it at my house!

Go read the thread and find any instance of MZ being asked to just hack the job up temporarily. It doesn't exist and that's exactly why he's a loser hack.

Here read it for yourself -

Hack - bullsh*t who knows nothing about concrete -


> Pond was built by a Driveway crew. They Poured it, Shaped it and forgot it! It needed to be slow cured with wet cardboard and wet down at least twice a day for about a week.


More hack bullsh*t who knows nothing about pond building or concrete


> I suggested I coat the pond with about 3 coats of thin-set Thats what I did to mine 5 years ago and have seen no cracks or leaks at all then again I cured mine correctly.


More hack bullsh*t from someone who knows nothing about dryvit


> I also considered coating it with clored DRYVIT but don't know if it would be safe for the fish being that it's a synthetic flexible stucco compound. Don't know if it would release chemicals into the water later.


More hack bullsh*t


> I whipped out my camera and snapped a few shots of the before pond. HO says they (Driveway guys) came back and "fixed the cracks" Um...Mortar is not how you "Fix the cracks"!


More hack bullsh*t


> Ok so I say "Before we start messing with this stuff we need to seal the pond!" HO says it (IS) sealed.... I said "No, thats fresh concrete and you will loose a lot of water if I don't at least put a coat of FLEXBOND on it." FYI it's a flexible thinset
> 
> I win! we go to HD and get 4 3" pipes, a pile of rubber elbows and connectors, A bag of FLEXBOND, 4 bags of El-Cheapo Thinset,
> 
> ...


And finally


> HO bought but I gotta use it because "His friend" recommended it and he spent about $1200 on just the fall and the pump.


A homeowner dropping $1200 at the drop of a hat for a pump doesn't sound like a homeowner with no money who just needs a quick cheap fix or bandaid.

What we have is a handyman running the show. The homeowner is relying on a professionals expertese to solve his problem. MZ brings the solutions to the project and no where do I read him prefacing his 'solutions' with -

Just so you know this isn't going to be a long term solution, this is just a bandaid.

No it's quite the opposite.


> I was the "POND GUY" at a National pet store and the only difference here is, I did use a liner on my pond but it's under the concrete which I coated with FLEXBOND thinset and in 5 years since I built it...


And I'm sure this is how he sold this poor homeowner a load of goods - with I was the "Pond Guy". 

And this is JT's reply in the pond thread :


> Must be nice to live in areas where you can pick and choose your jobs and have ppl with endless money. I dont know how many times we've been on jobs that were screwed up by someone else and the homeowner says "the monies almost gone do the best you can to make this work for now". Is it done right everytime? Nope but what are you to do, not work at all? That might be great for some of you but i cant make it happen. So be it call me a hack or whatever you want but sometimes you can leave a job that might not be done to the perfect spec. As long as its safe and the homeowner understands it might not be a long term solution whats a person to do?


Totally unrelated to the thread or the fact that MZ was running the show as the expert and he knows nothing about what he is doing.

Thinset is not a waterproofer and it isn't structural.

The customer never asked for a cheap bandaid.

The customer has plenty of money.

The only time MZ ever mentions a bandaid is after that post ran out of control, he was exposed in his techniques, did some research again and then posted the bandaid comment to cover his ass.

And all of this created this thread which personally I find quite ironic.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Do they have a Rite aid in Colorado? :laughing:


----------



## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

Damn you guys jump right back into this crap after 24hrs without missing a beat.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Workaholic said:


> Here Mike let me quote that for you so he will be able to see it.


 :laughing:

Thanks. Can't wait for his next vomit of mentally distrubed excuses.:whistling


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Jesus H. Christ!!!

Finley, how's the weather up there on your high horse?

Agreed though, mz didn't try very hard to actually find a proper solution, kind of just winged it. He went with the HO to buy crap at the depot.

The part that he really failed in is: He does not know any better, not about ponds, but about really making a decent living.
He has admitted that he is an hourly employee for the ho. That is not really cool.

It used to take me 8-10 hours to R&R a patio door. When I was too dumb to know any better I thought that was a killer day for 250 bucks.
Now it takes about 3-4 and starts out at 500 bucks on up. See I learned some things, bought some tools (not at a flea market), did it numerous times. 

What mz cant figure out (at least to me), if he really has some skill and knowledge, he should be killing doing small handyman crap.
Swapping faucets/toilets/garbage disposals/ easy dumb crap, that is where a guy like him could and should bank.

Unfortunatley, I dont think he is ever going to be smart enough to realize that maybe he has some more potential.

Finley, dont be a dick man. We got your point like the first 75 or 80 times.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Whatever. I'll clear the air as often as I like as long as somebodies going to spread more dis-information.

This entire thread is a result of the 1st one. The first one nobody seemed to have actually read anything MZ wrote.

I'll tell you the irony for me is how often the word "Quality" is meaninglessly thrown around by every contractor in the world. They put it on their trucks, on their business cards on their websites and throw the word around with every customer. 

Then between these 2 threads there are no less then 20 instances of people defending intentionally not delivering quality.


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

ah ha!

CT forum members:
:chinese:
pressing the "thanks" button in the lower right hand corner is _very powerful_ ..


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Darwin said:


> ah ha!
> 
> CT forum members:
> :chinese:
> pressing the "thanks" button in the lower right hand corner is _very powerful_ ..


wtf? :blink:


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

I believe the person hiring MZ knew MZ is not a pond guy. If that's true then no problem.

In regards to platitudes like quality, experienced, factory trained ect, yup, all old cliches we've heard a million times before. Meaningless.

Today I got to act like a pro, I had a bath in the high 20's range and had to tell the homeowner I could not guaranty a 5 week finish date because even if all went well perfect I don't order certain glass doors until the tile is up. Hinged 1/2" glass over a tub.

They are going away for the winter and between getting the permit and custom vanity, top and glass chances are 50/50 I go over 5 weeks from today. They shelved the job till spring. I really would have liked to fill that slot.

So what's a pro?
Many things in tandem.

Could I have forced a sale? Yes, most likely. Would it have been professional?

Its not only good installs that make a pro.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I am tired of the fighting so I am just gonna travel from town to town and underbid all you a$$h0les.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> I am tired of the fighting so I am just gonna travel from town to town and underbid all you a$$h0les.


How can you under bid your buddy?
You'd have to work for tortilla chips in Texas then.:laughing::laughing:

Sorry Mz, you gave us all too much info on yourself.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I got some salsa so I can work for chips.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

modernstyle said:


> i got some salsa so i can work for chips.


new york city????!!!!!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

CrpntrFrk said:


> new york city????!!!!!


 
You see what you started buddy?

Salsa is what CT means to Modern:laughing::laughing::laughing:

<-----one more, better save it.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Where's the TinMan?


Somebody bring in the Flyin' Monkeys!



I want more flyin' monkeys damnit. :sad:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

CT to me is spending the better half of my night reading a 10 page thread and absorbing every point of view.

If only dirtdiggler added his comments could this thread have been any better!

Thanks....


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

*My customers rock!*



ModernStyle said:


> None of us should worry about what anybody thinks except our customers themselves, they are what should matter most, making them happy. I couldnt give a crap less about what anyone other then the customer thinks, their happiness is my goal, and thats what being a quality contractor means to me.


Today I stained a fence with my airless and a small roller for the drips & runs. I was at the HO's house for about 2 hours longer than normal because I stained his rear porch railings with rags (Too much stucco and concrete to mask and it was too windy to spray that close to the house on a porch thats 11' in the air.









When the customer got home he quietly inspected my work (He thought I didn't see him looking at his gate hardware and the Rock pillars in the corners looking for overspray or where things had been "taped") I guess he liked that I took his gate completely apart to spray it and I even touched up the bolts with an artist brush and black TESTOR paint...I guess he also liked how there was not a speck on any grass, stucco, rock or concrete.

















I don't tape hardware if I can remove it. I use drop cloths even on grass, I use drop cloths for carpentry work too. I always carry 12' painters plastic to every job it's not only for paint, it works for dust too.

My point you ask?.... 

Customer paid me my price and popped out an extra C note and said "Good job!" and then asked me for about 5 business cards.

My Customers are always happy.
Which make me happy.
Extra CA$H, Mammas happy!
Mammas happy...Everyones happy!


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

jtpro said:


> Some people choose to ignore if they feel the drama leads to less productivity or knowledge sharing.


Sure, XYZ123 will have an occasional good post but if I have to read about 20 of XYZ123's useless comments, to me it's not worth waiting for XYZ123 to finally pich in...Easier to just put XYZ123 on ignore.

"XYZ123" meaning whoever is doing it and doing it to me.

I gotta admit tho, when I POP-in and forget to LOG-in. sometimes you guys are pretty funny... But it gets old if there isn't some help attaced to it.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> You should of quoted where you were misquoted so i could find the dang post.


Yeah, I want you to re-quote the mis-quote so I can quote you on your quote of the mis-quote and then be re-quoted myself!

It was quote confusing!


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

MZ, that's good work and everybody knows it. Finley's still going to give you **** for it. But don't go into shutdown mode (the ignore list) over it. Mike and Bob were right about the Koi pond. You did it to the best of your knowledge, it just so happens they're more experienced in that particular aspect. I said it last night and I'll say it again, if you believe you're the expert in every trade, you're just full of **** or full of yourself. This site is a form of checks and balances to keep everybody's head on straight. I, personally, couldn't have done the outstanding job you did on that deck so when something like that comes my way I'll be sure to look in your direction for advice. Take your lumps and give them right back.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> MZ is a hack loser cause of his bull sh*t hack techniques
> Go read the thread and find any instance of MZ being asked to just hack
> Hack - bullsh*t who knows nothing about concrete -
> More hack bullsh*t who knows nothing about pond building or concrete
> ...


You're a jerk who lets other people work while you sit in an office collecting money. You think you're better than everyone but you're a low life and you keep telling us how perfect you are yet your pictures on your website say otherwise... YOU'RE THE HACK! You're company's work is average at best! If you like I can put the pictures of your work up and show everyone how your guys just start in a corner and let the tiles fall where they may.

And you say "hack" so much... You should try robitussin! I'm really worried about your health...

I bet you buy an 80" TV and then show it off to your underpaid workers... You know what they're thinking?
This A-hole is buying expensive crap when I'm living in a Sh!t hole on what he pays me!

I've worked for A-holes like you and will never again!
I've said it before and I'll say it again...

THIS "HACK" HANDYMAN CAN RUN CIRCLES BY HIMSELF AROUND YOU AND YOUR WHOLE CREW WHEN IT COMES TO TILE WORK, CARPENTRY WORK, AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU PROFESS TO DOING SO PERFECTLY.

Love always,


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Oh, and don't discredit 20 useless comments from XYZ123. They're, generally, humor-based and you're not going to get that level of comedy from the wife and kids.


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

MZ, for God's sake a quick quip is worth a thousand angrily spewed words. Rule #1, as far as mccarty.74 is concerned, don't take this **** to heart. And don't burn bridges because you never know when someone could be an asset.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Whatever. I'll clear the air as often as I like as long as somebodies going to spread more dis-information.
> 
> This entire thread is a result of the 1st one. The first one nobody seemed to have actually read anything MZ wrote.* They read it, they just didn't feel the need to pick it apart like you did.*
> 
> ...


Yet, you (MIKE FINLEY) still don't deliver "quality"

How's it feel to have me do to you what you and JumboJack do to me?


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Sweet Jesus you don't even want help do you? Well... crash and burn my friend...crash and burn!


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

mccarty.74 said:


> MZ, that's good work and everybody knows it. Finley's still going to give you **** for it. But don't go into shutdown mode (the ignore list) over it. Mike and Bob were right about the Koi pond. You did it to the best of your knowledge, it just so happens they're more experienced in that particular aspect. *MIKE NO, BOB YES!* I said it last night and I'll say it again, if you believe you're the expert *(PROFESSIONAL) *in every trade,*(NOT EVERY TRADE Don't exadurate my words)* you're just full of **** or full of yourself. This site is a form of checks and balances to keep everybody's head on straight. I, personally, couldn't have done the outstanding job you did on that deck *(PORCH?!)* so when something like that comes my way I'll be sure to look in your direction for advice. Take your lumps and give them right back.


Will do! but you may want to consult someone like Modern, He's the Painter... I'm just a HACK (Gulp) taking a swig of robitussin.


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Take a few minutes and another stab at "EXADURATE." And see "this is where that asset comes in handy," I'm cool with you so I suggest you go to dictionary.com


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

Or Al Anon.













:jester:


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Charlie, that's unfair, only because I was not the first to suggest it.


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## S Winklepleck (Jul 31, 2009)

is this stupid thread still going?


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

*I'm just being goofy!*



S Winklepleck said:


> is this stupid thread still going?


I know Huh?

I mistakenly took Mike Finley off ignore and he brought out the worst in me.

SORRY GUYS!
I try to quit but he just keeps pulling me back in.

Now tell me you wouldn't put him on ignore if he was saying all that crap about you?

I like how jealous he is of me. Makes me want to rub my bald head on his fuzzy belly.


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## S Winklepleck (Jul 31, 2009)

It goes both ways. You two antagonise eachother. If you're confident in your abilities and secure with yourself, it really shouldn't matter what people say. Defend the facts with more information. If you were wrong, take the advice, with a grain of salt if you must, and learn. If a response isn't constructive, ignore the response. You've done a decent enough job keeping your head down for a lot of this, and I think some of these clowns need to go spend time with their families instead of wasting so much time passing judgement on people they're never going to interract with outside of this forum. But they're gonna do what they're gonna do. Take from the forum what you can. Contribute what you can. The rest is pointless banter.

I'm pretty sure Mike's crews do great work. Mike's job is to oversee them and ensure that their work is top notch, not to do the work himself. He put his time in as the manual labor, now he opperates as the brains of the outfit. That's what we should all be striving for, cause some day your body just won't be able to keep up anymore. I have a lot of respect for him for where he is and what he's done. I've also lost a lot of respect for him for his childish insults and elitist mentality. 

Let's grow up, shall we? Enough with the bickering. Both sides are to blame for the massive flare up of highschool drama and penis measuring. WHO CARES! Help, contribute, ask for advice, show off your work, and keep it CIVIL. I'm probably the youngest guy on this forum and I'm appalled at you old men's behavior :shutup:


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## mccarty.74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Ah, Winklepleck you're killing me. And to think I offered you a low-paying dead-end job in paradise? The back and forth exchanges are 75% of the fun here. First and foremost, it is a professional resource, but after that it's entertainment.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

S Winklepleck said:


> Let's grow up, shall we? Enough with the bickering. Both sides are to blame for the massive flare up of highschool drama and penis measuring. WHO CARES! Help, contribute, ask for advice, show off your work, and keep it CIVIL. I'm probably the youngest guy on this forum and I'm appalled at you old men's behavior :shutup:


Get used to it sonny because that is part of this forum. Some don't like it but if you can't hack a little bit of being poked fun at, maybe you need to go elsewhere, like the little girlies room. What we have here is a bunch of men that own businesses. That means a lot of men with pride and egos. That means a lot of swaggering and strutting and cussing. Same as going to a football game or a weekend party. Just venting and blowing off steam. 

Now, when you grow some hair around your gonads you can tell me how to behave but until then, Go to your room!

:whistling


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

rbsremodeling said:


> wtf? :blink:


wrong thread..sorry, buddy.


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## jtpro (May 21, 2009)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Sure, XYZ123 will have an occasional good post but if I have to read about 20 of XYZ123's useless comments, to me it's not worth waiting for XYZ123 to finally pich in...Easier to just put XYZ123 on ignore.


That was my point basically as I've seen you explain something to that effect at times. 

Nice stain job.:thumbup: I prefer solid stain on my home outdoor wood projects.
Never understood why some people like leaving it bare and the "aged look". 

I like the fact about using drop cloths and plastic NOT JUST for painting. 

I always felt that a little time with property protection saves headaches in the long run.:clap:


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

i came into this all a bit late i guess, but non the less here's my 2 cents.....

Mike you sure took alot of time to quote all that last post, says to me you feel pretty strongly about this guy in one way or another. Sounds like you're on a mission to call him out. 

Pond guy, you're defending too much. If you're not a hack tell that f&&$cker to piss off and go on... if he has added info that can help you to do a better job, take the advice.... if he's here just to pick u apart, tell him to screw off and go on, some guys have bigger mouths than Pe'Pe's, they try to make up for what they lack in bed and at work with their 
c%$ck sucker.

Stiil, i am coming back to this thred often... i am not amused, but still enjoying seeing all the input. The bickering over what he/she said quotes and all is pretty dull for me, but when others chime in and offer sage advice i find it bonding and rather amicable. I'd love someone to stand up for me some times. I may start my own topic on a not so similar topic to see if i can achieve the level of interest this thread has generated.... this is some good reading. 

I say take take the gloves off and get some airline tickets and a ring some place and duke it out and put it on youtube. NAh, then the thread would fizzle out... the thread's more long lasting than a 3 1/2 second fight...keep the verbal thrashing.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Today I stained a fence with my airless and a small roller for the drips & runs. I was at the HO's house for about 2 hours longer than normal because I stained his rear porch railings with rags (Too much stucco and concrete to mask and it was too windy to spray that close to the house on a porch thats 11' in the air.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me guess?

Behr? 

:laughing:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Good job. 

Good job on the C-note too. You probably get that alot. When a homeowner is basically paying what they think is a professional, rates that are on par with what they pay the neighborhood kid to mow their lawn a percentage of them will start feeling guilty and drop a c-note on you.

It's kind of like dropping a bigger tithe in the ole church collection plate to releive that guilty feeling after you've done something wrong. :w00t:

I think you found your calling as a painter. Do you have a van?


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> You're a jerk who lets other people work while you sit in an office collecting money.


If you think that is what a GC does all day then you really do know NOTHING about construction or running a business.....NOTHING!


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## 21gun (Aug 4, 2009)

i guess i dont fully understand what this thread is about, so what does 

CT (imo)

have to do with? CT means contractor talk. Its in general discussion and basically just a bunch of back and forth about nit pickin on what everyone has to say about anything..... but if i got outta hand, my apolog.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

To me CT means that I can have an addiction (CT) without worrying if I am going to destroy my liver, teeth, nose, lungs, brain cells or marriage. All while being entertained by some of the most wicked funny SOBs it has been my pleasure to (kind of) meet.

Andy.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> Let me guess?
> 
> Behr? *Sherwin Williams Oil Base Deck Stain (HOA RULES)*
> 
> ...


*Um... Everyone knows I have a "Beat Up Ole Chevy Blazer (With a broken window)*

I think he does want me to rub my bald head on his fuzzy belly!

TRUCE?!


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

21gun said:


> i guess i dont fully understand what this thread is about, so what does
> 
> CT (imo)
> 
> have to do with? CT means contractor talk. Its in general discussion and basically just a bunch of back and forth about nit pickin on what everyone has to say about anything..... but if i got outta hand, my apolog.


NO WAY... CT is just like a Construction Site.

A Couple of guys talkin crap about each other and everyone else egging em on for the entertainment value.

If it's not Mike and I , it's someone else... I think it's just more fun to pick on the guy who picks back... Usually me.

All in fun no harm intended to anyone.... C'ept maybe Mike. ha ha

I got a real Q for Mike but I gotta start a (NEW THREAD)


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

I know I get stuck in the basement and probably miss a lot, - - but why does it seem like everyone is always attacking the MZ dude?? 

Never mind, I'm probably starting a war.

Anyways, - - he seems pretty entertaining to me, and just tryin' to fit in.

No one can be expected to get attacked all the time, and not answer back.

Lighten up a little, - - if everyone was the same we'd be content to just talk to ourselves all day (which I myself already do but still ain't content) . . . :shifty:


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

He's got the post count now so hopefully, they can take this to the basement and we can watch a real fight go on. Not this sissyboy slapping stuff.:thumbup:


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Cdat said:


> He's got the post count now


Whats all this "POST COUNT" nonsense... If the posts are all one line garbage they mean nothing. My count is getting up there but sad to say a lot of my posts are me defending myself or acting goofy like everyone else.... Huh? something just hit me like a ton of bricks... 

I guess the POST COUNT does matter since about 95% of the posts are silly anyway!
What about profile visits... I got a crapload!
Nevermind!
PS: I still got you on ignore...But my list has been cut in half lately...Even Mike F is off ignore...WOW huh?


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## ChainsawCharlie (Jan 16, 2008)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Whats all this "POST COUNT" nonsense... If the posts are all one line garbage they mean nothing. My count is getting up there but sad to say a lot of my posts are me defending myself or acting goofy like everyone else.... Huh? something just hit me like a ton of bricks...
> 
> I guess the POST COUNT does matter since about 95% of the posts are silly anyway!
> What about profile visits... I got a crapload!
> ...


There's a special place you can go when your post count hits 250.

It's a great place to escape all the BS up here.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Yeah, it's called the politics section, where we argue with (and like) brick walls. :whistling


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## jtpro (May 21, 2009)

Tom R said:


> Yeah, it's called the politics section, where we argue with (and like) brick walls. :whistling


SOOOOO basically like the open forum but with a view? :laughing:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> *Um... Everyone knows I have a "Beat Up Ole Chevy Blazer (With a broken window)*
> 
> I think he does want me to rub my bald head on his fuzzy belly!
> 
> TRUCE?!


I wish I could comment on what you said, but I can't see what you write cause I have you on ignore.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> I wish I could comment on what you said, but I can't see what you write cause I have you on ignore.


 :laughing:


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

ChainsawCharlie said:


> There's a special place you can go when your post count hits 250.
> 
> It's a great place to escape all the BS up here.


 
Could someone enlighten me or is it a secret?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

paulie said:


> Could someone enlighten me or is it a secret?


Paulie, you are too nice a guy
to wallow in the cellar.
Don't go to the_ Dark Side_. :no:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

paulie said:


> Could someone enlighten me or is it a secret?


I was thinking the same thing myself.... then I looked...It's the Politics and Religion page.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

neolitic said:


> Pauli, you are too nice a guy
> to wallow in the cellar.
> Don't go th the_ Dark Side_. :no:


It's cool Darth. Maybe your right, ignorance is bliss.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

paulie said:


> It's cool Darth. Maybe your right, ignorance is bliss.


If you go to the "Off Topic Non Trade" 
forum there will be a new option there.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

neolitic said:


> If you go to the "Off Topic Non Trade"
> forum there will be a new option there.


 
Thanks Neo. :notworthy Went there real quick, looked at the new option and came back to the light. 

No use for that fight.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

paulie said:


> Thanks Neo. :notworthy Went there real quick, looked at the new option and came back to the light.
> 
> No use for that fight.


See?
I knew you were too nice a guy. :laughing:


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> I wish I could comment on what you said, but I can't see what you write cause I have you on ignore.


Ok with a french accent..

Ah, Touchet Monseur Finley, Thouchet!

Ok in English GOOD ONE!


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Ok with a french accent..
> 
> Ah, Touchet Monseur Finley, Thouchet!
> 
> Ok in English GOOD ONE!


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

http://www.contractortalk.com/f10/resurfacing-tile-ugh-62816/

CRICK IT!


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I say you 2 guys just get a couple of socks, fill them with penny's and beat the hell out of each other. 
Now that I think about it I should start settling my differences with people like that, imagine the look on you insurance agents face when he raises your rates and you lean down and take off a sock and dump a bunch of change into it, and smack him in the head with it.
Your wife makes a nasty meal, off comes the sock. Long lines at thr grocery store, off comes the sock.
This could work.


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## jtpro (May 21, 2009)

ModernStyle said:


> Now that I think about it I should start settling my differences with people like that, imagine the look on you insurance agents face when he raises your rates and you lean down and take off a sock and dump a bunch of change into it, and smack him in the head with it.
> Long lines at thr grocery store, off comes the sock.
> This could work.


Use a small magazine and a billy club leaves only internal bruising.:whistling
Beating them on the bottom of the feet also works.


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## Workaholic (Feb 3, 2007)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> http://www.contractortalk.com/f10/resurfacing-tile-ugh-62816/
> 
> CRICK IT!


 LOL shameless plug. I think people are just deciding to give you and your threads a wide birth.:laughing:


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> LOL shameless plug. I think people are just deciding to give you and your threads a wide birth.:laughing:


Hit the nail right on the head.....:laughing:


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> I say you 2 guys just get a couple of socks, fill them with penny's and beat the hell out of each other.
> Now that I think about it I should start settling my differences with people like that, imagine the look on you insurance agents face when he raises your rates and you lean down and take off a sock and dump a bunch of change into it, and smack him in the head with it.
> Your wife makes a nasty meal, off comes the sock. Long lines at thr grocery store, off comes the sock.
> This could work.


_THAT'S_ the Modern we know and love!!:laughing:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

ModernStyle said:


> I say you 2 guys just get a couple of socks, fill them with penny's and beat the hell out of each other.
> Now that I think about it I should start settling my differences with people like that, imagine the look on you insurance agents face when he raises your rates and you lean down and take off a sock and dump a bunch of change into it, and smack him in the head with it.
> Your wife makes a nasty meal, off comes the sock. Long lines at thr grocery store, off comes the sock.
> This could work.


There you go.
A real "solution oriented" man.
Thinking outside the sox! :clap::laughing:


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> LOL shameless plug.


Thats not a plug, I need answers and need em quick!

This time I am asking for help before I say what I was planning to do and get kicked in the HACKYSACK!

If I was to say I was going to sand with 1000 grit wet/dry (Not the recommended steel wool) then Clean it with KRUD KUTTER then rinse and do it again 3 times total then wipe it down with mineral spirits then wipe with tack rags and begin spraying it with epoxy paint at 60 lbs through my conventional sprayer....Doh!

Ok it was a plug.

Little Richard told me to tell you...








SHUT UP!


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Thats not a plug, I need answers and need em quick!
> 
> This time I am asking for help before I say what I was planning to do and get kicked in the HACKYSACK!
> 
> ...


Call a handyman.He should be able to tell you how to do it..They usually know how to do everything....
Oh wait...never mind....


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

neolitic said:


> Paulie, you are too nice a guy
> to wallow in the cellar.
> Don't go to the_ Dark Side_. :no:


Yeah. Those guys down there are...odd...


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

*Fyi...*

Mr-T said to tell you








I pitty the fool who MZ ignores!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> I say you 2 guys just get a couple of socks, fill them with penny's and beat the hell out of each other.
> Now that I think about it I should start settling my differences with people like that, imagine the look on you insurance agents face when he raises your rates and you lean down and take off a sock and dump a bunch of change into it, and smack him in the head with it.
> Your wife makes a nasty meal, off comes the sock. Long lines at thr grocery store, off comes the sock.
> This could work.


 
We used to do that in my buddy's basement growing up. One guy got the sock filled with change, turned the lights out and proceeded to run around and beat the crap out of someone untill you said Goat.

Lots of black eyes involved in that game.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Mr-T said to tell you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MZ and Bob must have kissed and made up....


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> We used to do that in my buddy's basement growing up. One guy got the sock filled with change, turned the lights out and proceeded to run around and beat the crap out of someone untill you said Goat.
> 
> Lots of black eyes involved in that game.


We would throw darts at each other as hard as we could. We also came up on a couple pairs of boxing gloves somehow. I couldnt box at all at the time, I was small and used to fighting dirty. After awhile nobody would box me because I would hit them in the junk, trip them, tackle them, poke in the eyes and any thing else I could do to get an advantage. Finally one of the guys who had boxed a little before showed me a few things, so I did box a little cleaner, but if I was getting my clock cleaned I would still resort to a kick to the groin.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN (Jun 7, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> We used to do that in my buddy's basement growing up. One guy got the sock filled with change, turned the lights out and proceeded to run around and beat the crap out of someone untill you said Goat.
> 
> Lots of black eyes involved in that game.


Anything changed since then?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

We also had bottle rocket wars and several other really dumb dangerous games we used to play.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> We also had bottle rocket wars and several other really dumb dangerous games we used to play.


Roman candles were better


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

WTF did I ever say to tick you off? Man, you have some serious issues to deal with. You know, they have stuff to help people like you now.

I found the reason you're so upset with the world MZ. Hey, it was a long time ago. Let it go...


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Mr-T said to tell you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All pretty good fellas from what I know of them here on CT.
How could you ignore Malco?
I don't think I have ever read anything of his that would make someone want to ignore him.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

MZ-HANDYMAN said:


> Anything changed since then?


 
Now the stupid games involve something with an engine.

Have not played goat in a few years, dont seem to heal up as fast as I once did.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> Roman candles were better


I forgot about those!!


----------

