# Vent Free Fireplace



## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

My wife wants to install a vent free natural gas fireplace in our living room. 

Her parents plan to buy the insert as an early Xmas gift and were looking at lowes/HD. I will build the mantle. They sell complete kits for about $5-600. Looking around online, it seems most units sell for triple the cost. 

What's the deal with the kits from lowes? Are they crap? Is there any ANSI codes I should be looking for? 

I know nothing about these units so any guidance would be great. 

Thanks


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Do you understand how ventless units work, exactly what that means?


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## nickko (Nov 11, 2012)

they are not vent free you are simply venting them into the house. that is why they have safety equipment on them to shut them down if they sense carbon monoxide or lack of oxygen. i think they should be outlawed. they stink and can cause moister problems in the house because they use indoor air for combustion and leave behind all the moister that was in the air.
if i walk into someones house and they are burning one i can tell right away. run away from them!! my local fireplace dealer wont even sell them

nicko


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

I do understand the downsides of vent free. As you pointed out, moisture and CO2 are the obvious concerns. 

What odor so you speak of? Is it a soot or gas smell? I know know one person with a vent free unit, but never noticed. Are all of these units plagued by this or only during a inefficient burn? 


I could possibly make a vent work, if they aren't too deep. Can any of the vented units have a negative pitch on the line, so I can run the vent through the basement below?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

The effect for everything - heating value, humidity, smells - is as if someone left the burners on a gas stove turned on. If you place the unit in an existing fireplace and open the damper (in order to reduce the humidity), the net heating effect will be negative - you'll lose more heat up the chimney than you'll gain from the gas appliance.

No, you can't run a vented unit fireplace down and through the basement.

I'm not a fan of the ventless units - if you want the occasional flickering flame, try the alcohol rings or something similar.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

You know this, but just to be clear, you're getting the contractor's view here, not the homeowner's view. Those are two very different things.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I have a customer who has one and I would not take it if they paid me to. The smell is real bad and the humidity skyrockets once it is on.

If you are in the house for a long period of time you can't smell it but once you enter it you really notice it


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

How tightly constructed is the house. A tight house should never have a ventless under any circumstance. No matter what safeties it has. If its loose construction. As in you see the curtains moving when the wind blows, they're okay. Think of a ventless fireplace like driving in your car with a hose ran from the exhaust pipe into the car and driving down the road with your windows open.


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## philcav7 (Jan 15, 2009)

It's not tight at all. 1931 balloon framed, no insulation(soon to be dense packed), no vapor barrier, windows are tight. 

I'm waiting on a quote from a local fireplace shop for power vent and direct vent options. 

Afterwards, I will discuss options with the wife. I may move the location of the fireplace. 

Thanks


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Power vent? You talking about a f.p. with a blower within, or power exhaust? I like the inserts. They heat a living space real well, and provided that you install said f.p. on an outside wall, they are great. 

I would stay away from a vent free f.p. unless outdoors and going for some type of ambiance around a gathering area. We all like to save a few bucks, but vent free is not the way to go about. If set on a lower cost fireplace, probably could find one at a Re-Store, or something second-hand.


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## JackP23 (Jan 1, 2013)

No to Vent free under any circumstance. We have them in our home (new construction 2007). They are unusable. Trust me on this. Just don't do it. They'll be the first thing to go when we remodel. 

______________
Mike


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I put one in my living room when I built my home in 2004. I wish i hadn't. It gets used once or twice a year. The odor & humidity are real byproducts. Spend the money on a vented unit or do an electric decorative unit.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Is this for real? I've never heard of these ever before. While you're at it throw one of these in too.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I lived in a basement apartment heated only by ventless gas heaters for a few years and I don't think they're that bad so long as you're not in a tight envelope. 

That being said, I definitely wouldn't recommend them to anyone in a normal situation. Modern forced air furnaces are 90+% efficient and can be very easily vented


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Morning Wood said:


> Is this for real? I've never heard of these ever before. While you're at it throw one of these in too.


Ha! I had something similar to this many years ago...it was a box filled with water, which caught excess lint (in theory) and expelled the humid exhaust air from the dryer (electric in my case, no fumes) and put it into the cold, dry winter air in my home...let's just say after about 2 minutes of running the walls in the entire house were dripping and the thing never got used again...


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## Dr Heat (Dec 25, 2008)

I have a dryer divert-er that I made for my dryer it's nice only open in the winter. I can use all the humidity I can get in the winter. Remember these are only for electric dryers.

As for vent-less fire place lets be real they work fine in the right location Garage heater, family room porch. They are not meant to be a primary heat source. I use one in my central hall to heat the whole house in the event of a power failure. I live on a farm the house was built around 1889.

A vent-less would never be my first choice I have several customers who use them so I work on them often usually ignition problems. Never smelled anything or had humidity issues.


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## miillersickness (Mar 15, 2012)

After reading through this thread i feel obligated to post. Ive had a napoleon 36" ventless natural gas fireplace with blower in my house for 2 years. My house is air tight with aprox 1600sf of living space. This one unit is all i have used to heat my house since it has been installed. For the first 24 hours of operation each year there is a distinct smell. After that all is normal, absolutely no smell. My heating bills are lower than they have ever been. It costs about $45 a month to heat my house. For me personally i have not seen any problems with ventless fireplaces. Let the flaming begin.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

After 24 hours, you get use to the smell.


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## nickko (Nov 11, 2012)

miillersickness said:


> After reading through this thread i feel obligated to post. Ive had a napoleon 36" ventless natural gas fireplace with blower in my house for 2 years. My house is air tight with aprox 1600sf of living space. This one unit is all i have used to heat my house since it has been installed. For the first 24 hours of operation each year there is a distinct smell. After that all is normal, absolutely no smell. My heating bills are lower than they have ever been. It costs about $45 a month to heat my house. For me personally i have not seen any problems with ventless fireplaces. Let the flaming begin.


You live there so you are probably used to it. How many times do you walk into someone's house and it stinks but they don't smell a thing?
When I walk into someone's house and they are burning a ventless fireplace I can spot it like a bad toupee. 

Nicko


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## miillersickness (Mar 15, 2012)

I agree I probably get used to that smell, but do I care? You can't deny their efficiency. As far as being safe I do have several carbon monoxide detectors through out the house just in case but they have never been tripped. Just my 2 cents guys


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

miillersickness said:


> I agree I probably get used to that smell, but do I care? You can't deny their efficiency. As far as being safe I do have several carbon monoxide detectors through out the house just in case but they have never been tripped. Just my 2 cents guys


Standard CO detectors don't alarm until the CO level is in the range that harm occurs in a few hours. So you could be slowing causing damage to you and your families health, that won't show for years.

You could have 25 PPM of CO in your house, and the alarm won't go off.
http://www.brkelectronics.com/faqs/oem/what_levels_of_co_cause_an_alarm

http://www.stopcarbonmonoxide.com/files/CO Levels_Risk Chart.pdf


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## miillersickness (Mar 15, 2012)

When my health starts failing ill let you guys know.


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## bob hutson (Mar 16, 2013)

I installed one several years ago as a back up. The added moisture in the house was unreal! I didn't know what the deal was till another contractor I was working with told a customer about the water issue,I still have it but only as a back up for a polar vortex. I wouldn't put one in a house again.


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