# My Friend and I Have Are Considering Starting a Painting Business - Sound Viable?



## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Hello Everyone - 

I've been perusing this board and searching on a variety of topics over the last few days. I appreciate how much knowledge y'all are willing to share to the mutual benefit of everyone involved.

I'm writing today to run an idea by you that my long-time trusted friend and I were tossing around about starting a painting company, and I was hoping to get some feedback. Here goes:

*BACKGROUND*: I believe between my friend (I'll call him Rob) and I we have very complimentary skill sets for this kind of business. 

Rob's background is in building maintenance (including a lot of painting) and HVAC repairs (commercial and residential). He's both good with people and good at doing high quality work and solving problems. 

My background is ~8+ years as a CPA, in which time I've built and sold two accounting firms from the ground up. I've dealt with a handful of contracting businesses, including my most recent stint as a contracted CFO of a rapidly growing homebuilder at which I helped them completely rework and drastically improve their cashflow, improve their margins, and implement systems. I've always done all my own marketing/sales and have learned how to do it well, get leads, convey value, close sales, etc. 

Between the two of us we know how to do good work, keep customers happy, bring in business, and make sure the money works. (Also, FWIW, we're both early 30's and have many working years ahead of us.)

That leads us to today: we live in an extremely rapidly growing area (North Idaho) and from everyone I've talked to, finding good subcontractors for builders is extremely difficult. Painting is something that (from my research) can be made into a scalable and profitable business when done right, and it's something that Rob has the skills to manage jobs and get them done right. 

*THE PLAN*: The basic plan as it stands now is for me to handle the generation of leads, close sales, oversee the finances & accounting, hand handle the other "general business" tasks. Rob would manage the team, oversee the jobs from start to finish, and keep the day to day operations of the business running smoothly. 

*QUESTIONS*: My questions to you are as follows:

Based on the information provided, what pitfalls do you see that could lead to this venture not being successful?
Based on my assessment and assuming we work hard, I believe we have a very reasonable shot of being successful and being able to grow this business to a valuable asset over the coming decade. Do you think that's likely?

That's about all. Thank you all in advance for your help in considering how to move forward. My life wouldn't be the same without kind strangers on internet message boards who were willing to share their wisdom.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

you and rob will not be friends much longer...:whistling

what do either one of you really know about painting?

waaaaay more to it than going to the big box store & buying some paint, rollers & brushes....


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

tree-fiddy


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

He has quite a bit of painting experience. He painted the inside of schools for a school district several summers all summer. He's also done a few odd painting gigs for friends and family, all of which were very impressed with his work.



griz said:


> you and rob will not be friends much longer...:whistling
> 
> what do either one of you really know about painting?
> 
> waaaaay more to it than going to the big box store & buying some paint, rollers & brushes....


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

SmallTownGuy said:


> tree-fiddy


Sorry, I don't understand...:blink:


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

> finding good subcontractors for builders is extremely difficult. Painting is something that (from my research) can be made into a scalable and profitable business when done right, and it's something that Rob has the skills to manage jobs and get them done right.


Starting at 'that' bottom is not financially scalable. Even the most efficient experienced painters have a hard time making much more than wages doing a good job. Have known three painters in three decades that tried. They all got a good head of steam on, got lots of work ran for a number of years 3-5 to only realize they'd never make any money in on top of total burnout. 2 were of families and seasoned experienced commercial and residential painting.

Look at a residential franchise like business model. Full on marketing and sales. Hire experienced painters and charge what you need to make money. Basically you and 'Rob' run the business and sell the chit out of every lead possible and might have a chance, if you bankrolled enough to get through start up.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen both in friendships and business.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I'd rather eat a bullet than start a painting business.

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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

I think that being a CPA is much more profitable than being a painter.

Painting is a competitive market. You're gonna have a hard time running the business structure you just described and competing with a one man show who's been painting for 20 or 30 years and can paint circles around you.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

DOITQ said:


> *QUESTIONS*: My questions to you are as follows:
> 
> Based on the information provided, what pitfalls do you see that could lead to this venture not being successful?


The hardest part is going to be finding labor. Painters are an interesting bunch to say the least. You need to find 6-10 or more of them to generate enough revenue to keep you and your friend paid. Trying to find 10 quality, reliable, productive painters who will work for cheap enough so you can make money might not be easy.

Most, if not all painting companies start from a one man show. One guy has low overhead, only has to close 1 lead a week, and has full control over quality. Slowly add to that, and he may have success.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I had an excellent flatwork guy who became a CPA. He was moving in the right direction.


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## Stryker1-1 (Dec 25, 2017)

I quickly see Rob realizing he is doing most of the work while you handle the books.

This type of endeavor usually ends up with one party feeling like they are doing 90% of the work.

If he is an HVAC guy why not do HVAC?

There are a lot of things I have done for family and friends. I've changed out p traps for family doesn't mean I'm going to start a plumbing business.

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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I think that being a CPA is much more profitable than being a painter.
> 
> Painting is a competitive market. You're gonna have a hard time running the business structure you just described and competing with a one man show who's been painting for 20 or 30 years and can paint circles around you.


Thanks for the feedback. It is much more profitable (being a CPA that si), but I can tell you from seeing the finances of many businesses that two people with complimentary skill sets can create more value together than one person who's a "craftsman" at his trade.


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Stryker1-1 said:


> I quickly see Rob realizing he is doing most of the work while you handle the books.
> 
> This type of endeavor usually ends up with one party feeling like they are doing 90% of the work.
> 
> ...


I would also be doing sales, and if I do say so myself, I'm quite experienced and good at it! Sales people are highly paid and add a lot of value, and he sees this. I can bring in leads and close them no problem. I have 10+ years of experience and I'm much better at that than I am at accounting.

Re: why not HVAC? Good point. We're open to doing anything that we can do and do well. He services a lot of HVAC maintenance contracts that I think could also be a profitable business.


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

avenge said:


> Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen both in friendships and business.


Clear expectations and good partnership agreements that account for all contingencies when things go "south" are the key to making these things not a big deal if things don't go as hoped. I've seen this happen too many times as a CPA to not plan for it.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

DOITQ said:


> Thanks for the feedback. It is much more profitable (being a CPA that si), but I can tell you from seeing the finances of many businesses that two people with complimentary skill sets can create more value together than one person who's a "craftsman" at his trade.


Valid, but without a good team and some good leads it's hard to hit the ground running. Think of how much business you will need and how many guys you have to capitalize on to keep a fulltime sales/paperwork guy and a full time site manager paid.


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Golden view said:


> I had an excellent flatwork guy who became a CPA. He was moving in the right direction.


Some people can handle the cube life, some cannot. My hats off to those that can.


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Inner10 said:


> Valid, but without a good team and some good leads it's hard to hit the ground running. Think of how much business you will need and how many guys you have to capitalize on to keep a fulltime sales/paperwork guy and a full time site manager paid.


Yes, it's a lot. At 20% margins after materials, labor, overhead (before owners' salaries) we'd need 17 jobs/month at an average job of $3k to pay us each 60k/year. I'd need to generate 50 leads/month if I can close 1/3 of them. That number shrinks to 11 if one of them is a new construction on a nice house that generates $17k. 

(I should also add that this area is absolutely booming with new construction and good subs are hard to find.)


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Golden view said:


> The hardest part is going to be finding labor. Painters are an interesting bunch to say the least. You need to find 6-10 or more of them to generate enough revenue to keep you and your friend paid. Trying to find 10 quality, reliable, productive painters who will work for cheap enough so you can make money might not be easy.
> 
> Most, if not all painting companies start from a one man show. One guy has low overhead, only has to close 1 lead a week, and has full control over quality. Slowly add to that, and he may have success.


I agree 100%. It's super hard to find labor here. I moved to the area a few years ago, and labor is plentiful where I come from. I plan on recruiting both here and there and using moving bonuses as an incentive and part of bonus will be contingent on staying for 1 year.


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I think that being a CPA is much more profitable than being a painter.
> 
> Painting is a competitive market. You're gonna have a hard time running the business structure you just described and competing with a one man show who's been painting for 20 or 30 years and can paint circles around you.


In my experience, one man shows are great in terms of quality, but are often booked far in advance and take much longer than a business that is meant to scale.


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## DOITQ (Jul 8, 2018)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> No thanks. :no:
> 
> It's that kind of attitude that is destroying the trades right now. And society in general.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying this. This is exactly why I would like to be in a different business. Pushing paper and filling out government forms in a florescent lit temperature controlled office all day leaves one feeling stiff and sallow. I'm not saying that working outside is a picnic either. But actually building things is much more appealing to me than filling out tax returns.


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