# Is it too late to apologize...too late?



## Pae_lands (Apr 10, 2016)

To the moderators of this forum.

My apologies for posting a "frowned upon" topic... now I know. Im.looking to learn as much as I can from this forum and I guess this is a good way to start lol..

I appreciate linking me to the thread regarding estimating and bidding, there were some helpful tips there. 

We've been in buisness 5 years this July (trying to not be the 90%) and stand by that model when estimating any of our landscaping jobs. T&M + overhead + profit = job cost. 

I also understand prices change based on specific job variables (location, site access, site conditions, saftey, weather, species of tree/plant, the list is endless and im ready to learn them all!) As well, prices vary from company to company depending on a number of variables that affect their particular overhead ie. location, rent (Hawaii is as expensive as it gets) etc..

I guess what I was trying to get outta that post was just an idea on pricing from other contractors regarding our particular situation. I know how long it took us and what we are ready to charge and am not at all looking for an "easy way out".

I personally think its easier to run the T&M equation when bidding jobs than it is to ask other contractors what they would charge..

But there were a couple variables I am not used to dealing with that we came across on this particular project...

1) Existing utilities crossing proposed trench.

and

2) Having a "general" idea, but not knowing exactly where utilities intersect.
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.
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1) Would yall only tack on the extra unskilled labor time it took to manually expose the existing lines? 

2) Would yalls price increase for assuming the liability of breaking any existing utility? (Id think so, but again not sure)

3) If we were to break a line, would we be responsible for the cost to repair?

4) Or would that fall on the GC for not knowing where the lines were?

My answers: yes, yes, no, yes.

Lmk if my post is still a frowned upon topic. I'm here to learn! Lol

Thanks for any help!


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey, we'll take apologies all day long even if they're not called for. :laughing:

Excavation isn't my field, but what seems obvious from over here is that you need to lay out your pricing before the work actually commences. In a situation such as yours, with multiple unknowns, there are basically two ways to go.

One way is to figure the worst case scenario and give a fixed quote based upon that. Of course, that's likely to bring you in way high compared to other contractors.

The other is to give a "base rate" for the known work involved (digging, with an out for running into huge boulders and whatnot), with a T&M allowance for locating the utilities and working around them.

I think the latter is more likely to give you a fair-sounding quote, as well as being more fair to both the client and yourself.

Unfortunately, since in your case it sounds like you've already done the work without those negotiations ahead of time, I'd say you probably ought to have a sit-down with the client, propose a number based upon T&M, and... take what he's willing to give you.


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## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

1. Yes to an extent. It shouldn't take terribly long to locate a untility as long as your one call is done.

2. No because we hand dig around utilities so we dont break them

3. Yes. You broke it, you fix it except in the case where the locates are wrong

4. As long as your one call is done all utilities should be flagged and painted except for anything private such as a phone line running from one building to another. Your locates only focus on what the utility company owns which are mains and service leads. Anything added after is considered private and will not be located with a one call


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

1. We charge extra (depending on trench depth, material, ect) for the average time to find a utility. Ex: base price for job based on hours to put in, plus 30 minutes for 2 laborers and a hoe to find and safely dig around.

2. No, the way I see it, you're there to be a responsible, safe excavation contractor. You can't be hitting gas lines, elect lines, ect every time you dig. 

3. Like mentioned before, return everything as it was when you started, you broke it, you fix it. Keep in mind the cost of fixing utilities, and pray you never hit fiber optic. 

4. Sounds like it was a private facility? Or did you not call miss dig? Every time we dog, even if we are ripping only a foot into the ground, we call to get utilities marked. It's free and can save you a tons of cash. Once again, you're still responsible for the utilities. Only time you'll get away with it is when they are marked wrong.


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