# The new DOT Regulations



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

As some of you know, I had my first exposure to the DOT as a contractor, and it wasn't pretty. 

At the job site yesterday, the safety guy that works for our customer said the rules, "they are a changin', and to get set" 

Oklahoma, depending on how you read the rules, allows you to have a single vehicle weighing no more then 26k, and have it under both a private tag, and standard driver;s license. We have always assumed we can run out pick-ups and trailers within reason, to the same 26k mark.

No longer. Any vehicle engaged in any commercial work, meaning a contractor with a ladder in a trailer, or anything that doesn't look like a farm vehicle, is now subject to the rules of commercial operation. 

If you have signs on your truck, or do not, and have a trailer that has a pair of axles, and the DOT decides to have a look, you are busted. We now have to have a DOT number, commercial tags and insurance, and comply with all regulations for any combination of truck and trailer with a gross weight of over 10,000 pounds. 

My one ton with steel flat bed weighs close to 9,000....by itself. 

Now, for the best news? It is up to a faceless someone at the state level to explain what they want, and then you have to hope you get a DOT guy who is on the same page.  And...you want these rules in writing? Good luck. 

Anyway boys, this isn't about safety, it is about revenue, and screwing the laws down to create another stream of income veiled as "protecting the public".

*Check your state laws and then see if you meet the loads and laws as they apply. *


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

How hard is it to get a DOT number? I heard it's a lengthy process.


----------



## Timo (Nov 22, 2006)

Any vehicle registered over 10k must comply with DOT regs. 

Any vehicle or combination whose registration exceeds 10k must show DOT number and the operator must have DOT physical card. 

Any vehicle or combination not exceeding 26k can be operated on a standard DL. But over 10k must comply with DOT regs - at the very least physical card and DOT number.

DOT is mostly concerned with vehicles of commerce. They typically do not apply to motorhomes/RVs.

The requirements listed above have been enforced for at least ten years in our local jurisdiction.


----------



## FGCC (Mar 1, 2012)

Getting the numbers is not the problem, it's being on the road 100% legal that is the problem. You have to re-read the rules a dozen times to figure them out, and when you think you have them straight, someone comes along and tells you otherwise; it all depends on how someone interprets them. I bought a new dump truck back in 2003, and it stays parked in my shop most of the time for "safety" reasons. It has about 30,000 mi on it, and looks like it just came out of the dealership, but it's safer to keep it parked when I can do without than worry about getting tickets. I try to pull my equipment with my F350 diesel pick up when I can, and use a dump trailer or container for light demo. The last thing you need first thing in the morning when you are headed out to make a living, is being hassled with scales and tickets.


----------



## FGCC (Mar 1, 2012)

Timo said:


> Any vehicle registered over 10k must comply with DOT regs.
> 
> Any vehicle or combination whose registration exceeds 10k must show DOT number and the operator must have DOT physical card.
> 
> ...


...and I believe any trailer over 10,000 GVW requires a class A CDL, regardless of truck GVW; at least that is how I understand it on certain days. :confused1:


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Timo said:


> Any vehicle registered over 10k must comply with DOT regs.
> 
> Any vehicle or combination whose registration exceeds 10k must show DOT number and the operator must have DOT physical card.
> 
> ...


Re-read what you just posted, and explain the logic. So now the state is interested in whether you have a physical card? Up to 26k has been the rule here for a long while, the exception being air brakes. 

Now.....I have held a commercial driver's license since 1979....when 18, in Oklahoma, we could get a commercial, allowing us to drive intrastate. 21 to go interstate. In 1991, when Oklahoma adopted the CDL program, I complied, and obtained a class A CDL. 

I am educated, hold a few Federal licenses, and understand the Department of Transportation as well as any layman does, and probably better then 98% of the clowns out there "enforcing" the rules. 

With the CDL program, and supposedly "standardization" of the rules, we now have the FUBAR nonsense in place now. In the original form, the DOT was supposed to regulate the interstate transportation of goods across America.....not across town. Your local department of public safety is supposed to determine whether your vehicle is safe, or roadworthy. 

The "career" law enforcement specialist that hammered me the other day did not understand how the Prodigy brake controller in my truck worked.... :blink:. Why as part of the anti skid system, it doesn't lock the wheels up for a "dry slide" to prove to his satisfaction the brakes worked. He actually had to get in the passenger side and let me roll down the road to see that yes, the trailer brakes work with the truck brakes.  

The break-away controller wasn't attached. The trailer was built before break-aways were installed. Didn't matter to this Einstein. In the end, 12 warnings on the ticket, 2 citation offenses for fines, and $425 later. 

So...any of you guys with a driver's license have a heath card? Just asking. I have a CDL, but if you read carefully, I have to have an office to hold a DOT number.....I office from home. Read the regulations..and see how this makes you feel.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

If any vehicle over 10K needs a DOT number, then how does U-Haul get away without having one on the side of their trucks? I notice all of the other rental truck companies have them.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

You can always do what I guy I know does, Put a little kitchen and toilet in his box truck to meet state RV requirements, registers it as an RV.


----------



## kubie (Oct 19, 2008)

tedanderson said:


> How hard is it to get a DOT number? I heard it's a lengthy process.


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/forms/r-l/MCS-150-Instructions-and-Form.pdf


----------



## mehtwo (Nov 14, 2010)

Well I hope it's a while before it hits New Mexico.:whistling I guess I'm a little ahead of the game since I already have my CDL and a health card.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have been told different answers each time I call the DMV or VDOT about DOT numbers. No one has a clear answer. Based on the DMV website as long as I don't go interstate on my travels I don't need a DOT number even though I'm over 10k lbs. they make it so hard to understand that even they dont understand it.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

All contained in the www.fmcsa.dot.gov/ .... in other words, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.....and there lies the tale. 

We are not motor carriers, we are hauling our materials or equipment, and the expansion of the rules to bring added income from another sector of the economy that cannot fight back.


----------



## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> I have been told different answers each time I call the DMV or VDOT about DOT numbers. No one has a clear answer. Based on the DMV website as long as I don't go interstate on my travels I don't need a DOT number even though I'm over 10k lbs. they make it so hard to understand that even they dont understand it.


That's my understanding too. Intrastate commerce no dot number needed over 10k GVWR/GCWR. Interstate, dot number needed. Some states require dot numbers regardless. Mass does not yet but I was told it would eventually. Over 10k GVWR truck you need- dot physical card, fire extinguisher, wheel chocks, reflective triangles, first aid kit. Anything else? That's what I have for my 11k pickup.


----------



## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

tedanderson said:


> If any vehicle over 10K needs a DOT number, then how does U-Haul get away without having one on the side of their trucks? I notice all of the other rental truck companies have them.


When I was moving my family from Seattle to Maine, we rented a 30'(?) Ryder truck. S. Dakota had signs for 6k gvw to stop at the weigh station. I was like "6k? That's a 3/4 ton truck" 

I thought no way that meant me. Well, it did....and the state trooper was not too happy I passed a weigh station. Not quite like Jays outcome, but damn he was making my life a misery. 2 hours later, after all the inspections and drug searches, I was able to continue on my way. 

The big thing here in Maine is the brakes on dump trucks. Huge fines.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

*And if this isn't enough: 
* I guess they want to create some more revenue, and make some of us either comply, or give up the CDL. I am really starting to hate some aspects of the loons that create these laws. Bet they cannot show any benefit to anyone, except justify why they get a paycheck. 

New Medical Certification Requirements: A Guide for Commercial Driver’s License (CDL) Holders
Print this page Print 
Related Links

State by State Instructions
CDL - Medical Certification Requirements (FAQs) 



Note: Starting January 30, 2012 and no later than January 30, 2014, all CDL holders must provide information to their SDLA regarding the type of commercial motor vehicle operation they drive in or expect to drive in with their CDL. Drivers operating in certain types of commerce will be required to submit a current medical examiner’s certificate to their SDLA to obtain a “certified” medical status as part of their driving record. CDL holders required to have a ”certified” medical status who fail to provide and keep up-to-date their medical examiner’s certificate with their SDLA will become ”not-certified” and they may lose their CDL.

For specific State by State requirements for drivers and information related to how a State is handling the Medical Certification requirements, and to determine who to contact for additional information, click on the following link: http://www.aamva.org/aamva/DocumentDisplay.aspx?id={687D99D3-FFB5-4B76-BD6F-F5EF54728BE0


----------



## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

BCConstruction said:


> I have been told different answers each time I call the DMV or VDOT about DOT numbers. No one has a clear answer. Based on the DMV website as long as I don't go interstate on my travels I don't need a DOT number even though I'm over 10k lbs. they make it so hard to understand that even they dont understand it.


It depends on what your state rules say, even though the DOT number is federal. In Washington you have to have a DOT number even if you never leave the state. The main reason is because they want a easily identifiable number on your truck for the public to identify your truck or company.


----------



## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

This has been in place here for years, probably at least 6-8 years actually.

You failed to mention what's typically the most expensive and cumbersome requirement of all of the DOT rules: Yearly vehicle and trailer inspections. The cost for inspection isn't terrible, but correcting "excessively leaking oil lines, etc..." can add up quick...........:whistling


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

And people wonder why we have to charge so much.


----------



## apkole (Mar 18, 2006)

As a matter of fact, I do have my medical card. Upgraded my DL to a chauffeur license also. In Michigan my understanding is that a CDL is not required for my 3/4 ton pickup and dump trailer combo. Agree that the cheap part of the mech inspection is the fee . . . Working toward becoming compliant but know that being pulled over is automatically a revenue positive for the state and/or feds no matter how diligent in crossing t's and dotting i's. On the advice of the officer flying a desk and answering the phone, DOT numbers are on the trailer, as they are not needed unless towing. Of course, the Sooper Trooper I spoke with at the local fuel station says the law points to the tow vehicle as the required number display. Sure would be nice if information and enforcement was standardized . . .

Had a friend whose employee was pulled over . . . dump truck, trailer, skid steer, the works. Held up for over an hour, including a trip to the local scale house to prove weight compliance with equipment ratings. No infraction found . . . initial complaint was 1 mph over the 60 speed limit. The (female) officer was VERY frustrated . . .:laughing:

I agree with Joasis . . . it's all about the Benjamins . . .


----------



## Timo (Nov 22, 2006)

I agree with most here that it ultimately is about the collections. The first DOT shakedown I paid for was close to ten years ago, cost close to $500.00 and included chargeable offenses that included unsecured cargo. The unsecured cargo was dirt in a bobcat bucket. The inspector thought that the dirt in the bucket could become dislodged in a collision and cause damage.

The most recent encounter was last year and was under $60.00. Two of Marylands finest invested close to one hour to collect $60.00. I'd say thats a losing investment on their part.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

There's a lot of contractors or I should say hacks around here that have for farm use on their vehicles. I'm not sure how they get away with it but I see a small number of them on sites all the time. I guess that's one way around these stupid laws.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

It really, really pisses me off royally to have to comply with the new rules to keep my CDL. I seriously think they are getting out of hand with this. 

So now, I get to pay for a medical card.....last one I bought was $125 or so....and get a DOT number....paperwork and all, $350 or so....plus commercial insurance rating for my one ton....that will leave a mark. Plus inspections. Plus their stupid little audits and compliance BS. 

But on the other hand, I will be all set to go a 'truckin', next slow down. I will be damned if I give up my Class A......so pass the added expenses along with every other cost we get.


----------



## Timo (Nov 22, 2006)

Joasis said:


> It really, really pisses me off royally to have to comply with the new rules to keep my CDL. I seriously think they are getting out of hand with this.
> 
> So now, I get to pay for a medical card.....last one I bought was $125 or so....and get a DOT number....paperwork and all, $350 or so....plus commercial insurance rating for my one ton....that will leave a mark. Plus inspections. Plus their stupid little audits and compliance BS.
> 
> But on the other hand, I will be all set to go a 'truckin', next slow down. I will be damned if I give up my Class A......so pass the added expenses along with every other cost we get.


I understand your pain but I hope that it is not as bad as it appears at first blush. We get our med cards at a branch of the local hospital - $60.00. DOT registration with the Feds requires a credit card to receive (to help keep the process legit) but we paid nothing for the number itself. Commercial insurance is fairly inexpensive here and probably is a good thing to have. 

Inspections happen only on motor driven units over 10,000 pounds. You can do them yourself and after the first one, they go fairly smoothly. 

Audits are more of a paperwork deal and compliance comes pretty easy.

I post all of this not to make light of your situation, but to let you know that others have been through it and you can make it too. The experience I have is in Maryland but the program is fed based and I find it hard to belive that other jurisdictions are radically more stringent than Maryland.

Oh, and it has nothing to do with CDL, the DOT fiasco usually catches those of us that purposely try to stay under CDL limits.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

My point was and is this: It is not about safety, it is about income. 

So what if it costs me $1000 a year? The larger point I am driving at is another fee...another few percent from my pocket to theirs. Dollars add up, and like every other fee, tax, surcharge, and other BS story they come up with, it is simply another revenue stream for a needless state/fed agency. 

And we don't haul for hire...

So....our clients pay the added expenses, just like every crackdown on "safety" and increasing fuel costs take more and more trucks off the road, all of us, and grandma and grandpa all pay more for their groceries, since as the cost of freight climbs, the actual motor carriers are not footing the costs..they pass them along. Just like we will. 

And everyone who sees a half ton pickup pulling a small flatbed trailer hauling something they shouldn't, just to avoid DOT, think about what happens when they are in an actual accident. Lets say kids are killed.....and it will happen. Then the feds will say everyone who drives a pickup or van will get the commercial treatment also. 

Funny how money fixes all these issues, isn't it?


----------



## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Every thing you are going through Joasis we went through about 5 years ago. I agree 100% it shouldn't apply to us that are just hauling our own materials and equipment to the job site. IT's just a light duty truck not an 18wheeler. 

It has been 5 years since I was pulled over by the DOT and it wasn't pretty. I have noticed less Light duty trucks pulled over lately but we see a Dot car at least once a day.

Cole


----------



## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Kent Whitten said:


> When I was moving my family from Seattle to Maine, we rented a 30'(?) Ryder truck. S. Dakota had signs for 6k gvw to stop at the weigh station. I was like "6k? That's a 3/4 ton truck"
> 
> I thought no way that meant me. Well, it did....and the state trooper was not too happy I passed a weigh station. Not quite like Jays outcome, but damn he was making my life a misery. 2 hours later, after all the inspections and drug searches, I was able to continue on my way.
> 
> The big thing here in Maine is the brakes on dump trucks. Huge fines.


Was this just outside Rapid City? I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to us that are more local:laughing: You wouldn't believe the pounds of drugs that get stopped on I-90 coming from Oregon, Washington. Got to have some reason to pull them over.:whistling


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

The DOT guy actually asked me as he was turning me loose, why I tried to "lie" to him.....I asked him how he came to that conclusion? He said that me having a CDL meant I was fully aware of the law, and that I should know better....he swiveled his laptop around and showed me my profile. All of my pilot's ratings, Complete DL transcript,. and that I am married to an Oklahoma peace officer. My background including the last citation I ever got several years ago. He wasn't impressed by me playing "dumb" to his interrogation. 

I simply asked him if he thought he was making a difference in highway safety, and he said nope...just doing his job. I told him, in as friendly a way as I could, that what he put me through for no reasonable cause is why the public feels about law enforcement as they do. 

I don't think the Einstein understood.


----------



## wnc viking (Aug 4, 2011)

A few weeks a go. A dot Guy was standing on the side of the road a flagging down deisel pickups a dipping there tanks to see if they had used off road deisel.


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Keep gettin' ready folks. If dufus gets another 4 years, this BS will skyrocket even further!


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> There's a lot of contractors or I should say hacks around here that have for farm use on their vehicles. I'm not sure how they get away with it but I see a small number of them on sites all the time. I guess that's one way around these stupid laws.


Around here, you have to have a farm and you can only drive it something like 15 miles from the farm. Inspection procedures are greatly reduced, so it's much much cheaper to keep it on the road and you dodge a lot of other regulations. I don't see any on construction sites around here, but trucks for snow plowing would be good candidates in these parts.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

wnc viking said:


> A few weeks a go. A dot Guy was standing on the side of the road a flagging down deisel pickups a dipping there tanks to see if they had used off road deisel.


I remember a couple years back a guy who was running homemade biodiesel got nailed. It's something like a $10,000 fine.

With all the stuff happening and getting worse, I' guess I'll check into exemptions for RVs and farms. I came extremely close to buying a 32' Pace Arrow to use as a mobile shop this past spring, just couldn't bring myself to do it due to fuel consumption. Maybe I should have done it after all. Having a kitchen, shower, and toilet with on board generator isn't a bad thing:laughing:


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

hdavis said:


> I remember a couple years back a guy who was running homemade biodiesel got nailed. It's something like a $10,000 fine.


How would homemade biodiesel get them flagged on a roadside inspection? It's not really any different color than regular diesel. It certainly doesn't have the red dye that off road does.

I could understand them questioning lack of road use taxes being paid...that's an iffy area here in ny that no one can seem to get a straight answer from the tax dept on. We have a family member who runs french fry grease...that's how I know.


----------



## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

svronthmve said:


> How would homemade biodiesel get them flagged on a roadside inspection? It's not really any different color than regular diesel. It certainly doesn't have the red dye that off road does..


I think that you cant run it in business trucks only private cars and pickups. Could be wrong though.


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Gary H said:


> I think that you cant run it in business trucks only private cars and pickups. Could be wrong though.


I could see them making a stink about that!


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

svronthmve said:


> How would homemade biodiesel get them flagged on a roadside inspection? It's not really any different color than regular diesel. It certainly doesn't have the red dye that off road does.
> 
> I could understand them questioning lack of road use taxes being paid...that's an iffy area here in ny that no one can seem to get a straight answer from the tax dept on. We have a family member who runs french fry grease...that's how I know.


If you take off the gas cap and it smells like french fries, it's probably not road use diesel. It's the state and federal road use taxes the guy was summonsed on, as I understand it (actually, it was a state beef, not federal, but the feds could do it as well).


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Gary H said:


> I think that you cant run it in business trucks only private cars and pickups. Could be wrong though.


This was a private car. Nobody is safe from the tax man...


----------



## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I have been argueing with cop friends about this the last couple yrs about this. I have used several examples to baffle them and in doing so i even proved to a couple that they themselves are at risk since some of these guys are contractors on the side. One example was the new Ford F-150 Ecoboost that is rated to tow over 11k on the hitch. So, if you are a contractor driving a 1/2 ton truck then you take a chance of needing DOT numbers and can be out of class on your license when towing more than 10k. Then, my second argument i got several of them on. Lets take a Ford F-250 Powerstroke CCLB with a Fisher 9.6' V-plow. Truck itself weighs over 8k lbs and another 1050lbs for the blade. You put 6 men inside going to the job each weighing 200lbs and that truck is now over 10k lbs, then put a 6'X12' landscaping trailer behind it with an ATV. This truck still has an empty bed and a very small load on the hitch but is lettered for the business, where does that class license fall for here in NY? Is this truck doing anything any different than a HO taking his buddies to hunting camp other than being lettered?


----------



## Timo (Nov 22, 2006)

woodchuck2 said:


> I have been argueing with cop friends about this the last couple yrs about this. I have used several examples to baffle them and in doing so i even proved to a couple that they themselves are at risk since some of these guys are contractors on the side. One example was the new Ford F-150 Ecoboost that is rated to tow over 11k on the hitch. So, if you are a contractor driving a 1/2 ton truck then you take a chance of needing DOT numbers and can be out of class on your license when towing more than 10k. Then, my second argument i got several of them on. Lets take a Ford F-250 Powerstroke CCLB with a Fisher 9.6' V-plow. Truck itself weighs over 8k lbs and another 1050lbs for the blade. You put 6 men inside going to the job each weighing 200lbs and that truck is now over 10k lbs, then put a 6'X12' landscaping trailer behind it with an ATV. This truck still has an empty bed and a very small load on the hitch but is lettered for the business, where does that class license fall for here in NY? Is this truck doing anything any different than a HO taking his buddies to hunting camp other than being lettered?


Commerce is the difference. Old fellow retired and sold his furniture store. Bought an old school bus and converted it to a camper. Drove all over creation, nary a DOT care in the world. 

Got bored with the life of travel so gutted the school bus again, went to the local mattress factory, stuffed his bus full of mattress seconds and hit the flea market trail. Wasn't long until the bus was for sale. Parked due to DOT requirements. 

True story.


----------



## Timo (Nov 22, 2006)

woodchuck2 said:


> I have been argueing with cop friends about this the last couple yrs about this. I have used several examples to baffle them and in doing so i even proved to a couple that they themselves are at risk since some of these guys are contractors on the side. One example was the new Ford F-150 Ecoboost that is rated to tow over 11k on the hitch. So, if you are a contractor driving a 1/2 ton truck then you take a chance of needing DOT numbers and can be out of class on your license when towing more than 10k. . . .


For commercial purposes;
You will be out of class if your truck and trailer together are rated or plated at a combined total over 10,000 pounds. 

This is based on the USDOT. Not too many states are likely to loosen the requirements.


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Not sure about your DOT regs, but here once listed commercial you need to do the daily circle checks, keep a log book, etc.

Also with personal vs. commercial insurance, here you can have a claim issue should something happen and the vehicle is used for mostly for commercial purposes.

A lot of guys run around in pickups with lettering on them and plates with a little red sticker that says primarily for personal transportation...fools they are


----------

