# Outside spigot question.



## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I installed 2 new spigots that are attached to an outside shower control.
I couldn't get the one on the right tightened past 3 o'clock and had to back it out in order for it to get to 6 o'clock, where it should be.

I taped and used pipe dope on the threads. Even backed off, nothing leaks but the entire spigot turns when you open and close the handle.

Is there a cure for this...will time solidify things? 

Thanks.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Pipe dope will harden, but teflon tape stays slippery. I think it will keep turning.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Tough to tell, but you may be able to get the extra quarter turn with a tap and die and possibky a file. Otherwise, I think you're looking at a washer and straight pipe dope.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Never thought about a washer.

Thanks!


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

use a little less tape forget the washer


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I've had some bad luck in the past with these threaded plumbing fittings. I used to use just tape and tighten hard...leak.

Switched to dope...tighten hard...leak.

I asked around and a few plumbers said they use both. Today was the first time I tried both and it didn't leak...but it didn't line up either.

The one on the left was perfect. Just another little "umph" and it was at 6 o'clock. The right one wouldn't budge past 3.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Chances are decent that if you bought another one, it would not have stopped at 3:00.

..and you might even be curious enough to try, as I was. (it worked for me, but not the same brand)


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Dope softens the plastic so avoid it there unless separated by tephlon.

I guess it's more or less tape. I know anytime I fight black pipe for alignment tightening multiple pieces at together instead of once at a time is much more cooperative. Maybe a nipple in between?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Why did you use tape and dope? It's one or the other. I like teflon tape for plumbing. If you don't get the position you like you wrap more tape. Otherwise you use dope, tighten to the position you want and let it dry.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Like I said, I've tried both alone and have leaks. Not all the time but enough to piss me off. Two plumbers at the plumbing supply house I use said they use both...wrap with teflon 3 wraps, then slather on the dope uniformly.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Thought you needed to let the pipe dope dry overnight before pressurizing. Which is why I use teflon tape. Never heard of using both.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Leo G said:


> Thought you needed to let the pipe dope dry overnight before pressurizing. Which is why I use teflon tape. Never heard of using both.


Never heard of letting in dry. It's used to fill air gaps and as a lubricant.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Just did a little research and apparently, using both is pretty common....on metal parts.


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## mrcat (Jun 27, 2015)

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-442-...ocphy=9005626&hvtargid=pla-569426699239&psc=1

This stuff is the shiz for sealing problem threaded joints.

I had a damaged fitting on my outdoor boiler, where I could only get a couple threads engaged, used this stuff, and it's been holding fine for 10 years.

I also used it on a hydraulic cylinder with a damaged fitting, I'm a big fan.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Robie said:


> Just did a little research and apparently, using both is pretty common....on metal parts.


Not that it's right. I figure many keep trying stuff until it solves the prblen, then they're locked on it for good.

It's like seeing a guy dope a flare fitting...you can't tell him anything once it worked for him.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> Not that it's right. I figure many keep trying stuff until it solves the prblen, then they're locked on it for good.
> 
> It's like seeing a guy dope a flare fitting...you can't tell him anything once it worked for him.


A few of these comments were from plumbers.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Robie said:


> A few of these comments were from plumbers.


I used to question plumbers when they deviated from the proper methods. I don't do that anymore, and sometimes it turns out I was probably right..but I keep quiet out of respect. :shutup:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

It's pretty common to use both, but I only do it on gas fittings. I've never used both for water. Never needed to.  

Gas/air molecules are smaller than water molecules, so that is why sometimes a system will not hold test pressure, yet does not leak water. Hence the use of both for gas.

For what it's worth, when both are used, the teflon tape goes on the male threads, and the dope goes on the female. :thumbsup:

If it's bottoming out before it's tight, there is most likely something wrong with either the female or male fitting. It's not supposed to do that.

You should not depend on dope hardening to hold a fitting. The best pipe thread compounds are non-hardening. It's not designed to hold loose fittings by hardening up.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Neither pipe dope nor teflon tape is about making the seal. It's only an anti-seize so you can tighten the fitting enough to get the proper thread on thread seal.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> It's pretty common to use both, but I only do it on gas fittings. I've never used both for water. Never needed to.
> 
> Gas/air molecules are smaller than water molecules, so that is why sometimes a system will not hold test pressure, yet does not leak water. Hence the use of both for gas.
> 
> ...


rector seal....:thumbsup:

as it is known on site as....rectum seal...:laughing:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Golden view said:


> Neither pipe dope nor teflon tape is about making the seal. It's only an anti-seize so you can tighten the fitting enough to get the proper thread on thread seal.


I'm a bit skeptical on that claim. "True fact"?


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Golden view said:


> Neither pipe dope nor teflon tape is about making the seal. It's only an anti-seize so you can tighten the fitting enough to get the proper thread on thread seal.


Not being smart here...why not just use Vaseline then?


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> I'm a bit skeptical on that claim. "True fact"?


Well I've been wrong many times before. But my understanding is npt is an interference fit. Not to say pipe dope or teflon tape doesn't help fill in minute voids.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

griz said:


> rector seal....:thumbsup:
> 
> as it is known on site as....rectum seal...:laughing:


:thumbsup:

My favorite.

And all this time I thought I invented "rectum seal". :laughing:

Guess not.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Golden view said:


> Well I've been wrong many times before. But my understanding is npt is an interference fit. Not to say pipe dope or teflon tape doesn't help fill in minute voids.


Apparently you are right. Also, I just learned to never use teflon tape on pvc threads...it can lead to over-tightening and stripping the threads...not necessary.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Robie said:


> Not being smart here...why not just use Vaseline then?


No idea, squeezes out too much compared to whatever's in pipe dope? I know that a 1/2" bolt can have something like 12,000 pounds of clamp force, so a 1/2" pipe thread can probably have some pretty strong squeeze between those threads.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> Apparently you are right. Also, I just learned to never use teflon tape on pvc threads...it can lead to over-tightening and stripping the threads...not necessary.


That I definitely did not know.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Golden view said:


> Well I've been wrong many times before. But my understanding is npt is an interference fit. Not to say pipe dope or teflon tape doesn't help fill in minute voids.


It is a tapered (NPT) interference fit. The pipe dope or teflon tape does seal and lubricate the joint. 

Think of the threads as a continuous trough, it nothing more than a circular continous line. The dope/tape interrupts the ability for fluid to flow through the trough. 

Assemble some air fittings without sealant, even with the tapered fittings made up tight, you'll have a leak. In this case air is the fluid. Better yet, try not using sealant on a vacuum system---good times.

My favorite dope is Leak Lock.

Tom


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

> Think of the threads as a continuous trough, it nothing more than a circular continous line. The dope/tape interrupts the ability for fluid to flow through the trough.


That's what I thought it was for...plus lubrication.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> Apparently you are right. Also, I just learned to never use teflon tape on pvc threads...it can lead to over-tightening and stripping the threads...not necessary.


I use teflon tape on PVC NPT treads all the time. Never had an issue with stripping the threads. Do not use petroleum based dope on PVC.

Don't forget when working on building gas lines---yellow teflon tape.

Tom


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

X2 on teflon tape over PVC threads.

Most plumbers I see use it also.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> I use teflon tape on PVC NPT treads all the time. Never had an issue with stripping the threads. Do not use petroleum based dope on PVC.
> 
> Don't forget when working on building gas lines---yellow teflon tape.
> 
> Tom



I stripped one. I'm sure I could strip PVC threads without the tape, though.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

thread sealant is intended to fill the tiny void at the "v" shape at the bottom of a thread called the "root"....

down to earth ME explained this to me one day.....

sometimes you just gotta go with the flow.....


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> I use teflon tape on PVC NPT treads all the time. Never had an issue with stripping the threads. Do not use petroleum based dope on PVC.
> 
> Don't forget when working on building gas lines---yellow teflon tape.
> 
> Tom


I've used tape on pvc threads without issue, as well (and probably will continue). That comment was a just a "share" from a plumbing mod on another thread, and I guess it makes sense.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

griz said:


> thread sealant is intended to fill the tiny void at the "v" shape at the bottom of a thread called the "root"....
> 
> down to earth ME explained this to me one day.....
> 
> sometimes you just gotta go with the flow.....


Nicely worded, there.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Do you guys "grease dab" the threads (only the threads, not the ends) on compression fittings? I read somewhere that it was done to reduce the chance of feeling you snugged the nut down enough...when you haven't.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

I’d just swap out the offending parts with new. I’ve Never had this happen, always been able to get that extra 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 turn if needed. I’ve done quite a bit of black pipe.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> I've used tape on pvc threads without issue, as well (and probably will continue). That comment was a just a "share" from a plumbing mod on another thread, and I guess it makes sense.


No, it does not make sense. 

All threaded fasteners have a torque to yield ratio, don't exceed it and life is good.

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> Do you guys "grease dab" the threads (only the threads, not the ends) on compression fittings? I read somewhere that it was done to reduce the chance of feeling you snugged the nut down enough...when you haven't.


I use PTFE on the threads. Again, because you've changed the friction coefficient it is easy to over torque the assembly.

Tom


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> No, it does not make sense.
> 
> All threaded fasteners have a torque to yield ratio, don't exceed it and life is good.
> 
> Tom


I would call that ratio "feel", so it makes sense if the feel of snugness is different for different materials. But maybe it's a plumbing myth afterall.


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