# Building inspectors: what authority do they really have?



## greg24k

Rod B. said:


> Actually had that happen. Was installing windows at my home, had the proper permit, displayed properly, the whole bit. Rec'd a citation for not having the permit. Went to the village hall, had a few words with the building inspector (had had a few earlier run-ins with him, just didn't like his attitude!), showed him a copy of the permit that I made, and left. Two days later, on a Sat at 7 in the morning, there was all kinds of pounding at the back door; wife (in her nightgown), was alarmed, thought something was wrong, opened the back door (yes, she says she'll now never do that again). Anyway, it was the building inspector, who said "Can I come in?" and tried to push past her...she tried to block him, and at that point our 110 lb shepherd mix took great offense. Inspector left quickly. By the way, he'd opened our back gate, came in the yard, up the back steps, opened the back door to our enclosed back porch, to pound on the back door. Why not the front door? Not a clue.
> 
> Several years later, I found out, purely by accident, that the citation was still against me. Had to hire an atty to go into court to contest it. The building inspector had retired by this time, but still came to court "as a witness", if I remember correctly. The judge dismissed everything; old inspector was obviously pissed. I went back to work, came home at 7pm to find that all three outside water faucets at the house had been turned on full force, and had, from the look of everything, been running for many hours. I tried to file a complaint...so much for that. Notified the neighbors and our friendly mail lady to please watch the house; never has happened again.
> 
> A bit of a vendetta against me? Probably. But if he could've pressed the issue of access to the house, my guess is that he would've. Glad the dog was right there, and unhappy.


He is out of line, I would give that guy a beating and nothing he could have done afterwords.


----------



## tedanderson

> If they are knocking and you haven't got anything to hide...let him in


NEVER!

Having "nothing to hide" because you aren't doing anything wrong is what causes people to implicate themselves when they didn't have to. 

First of all, when someone comes to my door asking to come into my house, they are encroaching on my personal time and space. If I happened to be cooking, working on a project, having private moments with my family, assembling a ship in a bottle, etc. I will not be interrupted. 

Secondly, unless a crime has been committed, I don't owe anyone any answers as to who I am, what I have, or what I am doing at that particular point in time. While it's true that I have nothing to hide if I am doing nothing wrong, but that does not mean that I am obligated to explain myself or prove that I didn't break the law.

Back when I lived in a small locally governed community (roughly 600 homes), the local inspector knocked on my door. When I answered, he said, "I heard that a construction company is being operated out of this house! I need to come in and see. Are you the owner?" I really wanted to give him a piece of my mind and use a few choice words but instead I quietly said, "Have a nice day, sir." and closed the door.

I later learned that he was suspicious because when I got my license, I didn't have a commercial location and I used my home address as my business address. And I guess that Google references my company name and address back to the other. But over the course of a 3 to 4 week period the new inspector was going door to door entering the homes in the neighborhood and getting away with it simply because people didn't know their rights.

But typically, any time you give a gov't official the right to search your home, you are essentially consenting to being cited for any violation that is seen in open and plain view.


----------



## Chris Johnson

While I appreciate your comments and understand them I live a sheltered life from all the fear of big bad government (the building department). I know the building inspectors in my area from working close to home, so my response of letting them in is based on my personal knowledge of them sure there are a few I don't know but come on over...I want to know you, I'm friendly that way. My personal knowledge and friendship with the building inspectors gives me leniency on the job sites, so if the inspector is running late I can still pour concrete without waiting, etc etc.

So, based on my view, if they were knocking and I know my house is in order, come on in...want a cup of coffee while you are here?


----------



## HUI

In Indiana there is a state statute that allows a county to form a building Dept, inspector and so forth. At the bottom of this statue it states that a person building their own home for their own occupancy is exempt from this statute. 
Well about 12 yrs ago I tried it out. I build my own home. The only thing I subbed was the well being drilled and my kitchen cabinets. The building inspector tried to tell me I needed a building permit. I politely informed him of the law. He insisted I needed a building permit. I said "no sir I do not". So after going back and forth the inspector brought out his boss and I argued with him also. He finally gave in and said that it is true that you don't have to have a building permit but I did need a location improvement permit. So I said ok and proceeded back to his office to obtain one. The people that worked there had never herd of a location improvement permit so the head guy had to fill it out himself. 

The only issue I had was I wanted to get my temp electric hooked up. I called the electric company to do this and they said it had to be inspected. So I called the inspector and he informed me that because I did not get a building permit that he legally can not enter my property to inspect. So the electric company did the inspection and hooked me up. I did not have any building inspections whatsoever. The only other inspection I had to deal with was the septic and that is through the health Dept here.


----------



## superseal

Having over 50 AHJ's within a 15 mile radius and 30 years in the trades, you meet all kinds of characters. Some aggressive and willing to let themselves in and some not. 

Also, around here code enforcement is usually a different job than BI, although closely linked in the same dept. You mess with one and you mess with them all. 

Had one local CEO stop me while I was Jackhammering a set of steps and walkway. Big fat dude...never got out of his car, simply rolled the window down and asked if I had a permit. I said, it's in the window, he said, "wrong answer, that's an old permit." Feeling pretty good about myself, I said, "yea, call Mary (the helibeast ) at the office and ask her." We'll it looked like he lost 20 lbs. in the blink of an eye and after confirming the permit was valid, was very apologetic. 

Actually, after he got his fat azz out of the car to apologize, he looks at the amount of work and asked why I got a permit? :blink:"You don't need them for steps and anything under 5 blocks"...So i say, "why did Mary charge me $160.00 then." He said, "I don't know."

Quite pissed off at this point, I march into the office with vengeance and asked why i was charged a permit fee when I was just informed one was not necessary. Shes says "let me call the building inspector and find out," (remember, she's the one who charged me), I say, "please do so". 

So I hear him in the background on the nextel system and he's saying,"why?, whats he want?, a  refund?, just tell him it requires a permit", and she said, "he's standing right here and would like to meet with you". Man, the phone went silent, but he agreed to meet with me 2 days later at the job, 9 am.

I get there 5 min. early and the customer is standing in front of the house, jobs done, I say, "where's he at?", She said, "he was here at 8:30 and said the job looked great. I said, "he mention anything about the permit?," She said "no". 

I never did tell her what happened and since I already wasted a ton of time, just let it slide. 

I guess the moral of the story is simply, Don't fear the inspector as much as the helibeast behind the counter :jester:


----------



## Irishslave

Know what you are doing. Never exhibit fear. you'll never have a problem


----------



## greg24k

Except Jehovah's Witnesses on Sunday no Building or any other inspector, knocked on my door, unless I called them.

Even if your railing are falling off, of something on the house is not up to code, they don't come over unless they have a reason for it or like Chris said in a smaller town and you a contractor they might stop by to say hello... other then that no matter whats there, unless of course its causing unsafe public environment they will never bother you... because everything else on your house, falls under grandfather law provisions unless you making a change.


----------



## rosethornva

greg24k said:


> Except Jehovah's Witnesses on Sunday no Building or any other inspector, knocked on my door, unless I called them.
> 
> Even if your railing are falling off, of something on the house is not up to code, they don't come over unless they have a reason for it or like Chris said in a smaller town and you a contractor they might stop by to say hello... other then that no matter whats there, unless of course its causing unsafe public environment they will never bother you... because everything else on your house, falls under grandfather law provisions unless you making a change.


That may be true in small towns and/or your neck of the woods, but it is not true in the big cities. 

Some of these building inspectors are drunk on power and have so very little knowledge of the building codes. I've heard them make stuff up because they don't really know the code, but they think I'm some dumb girl who doesn't know any better. 

I'm not impressed with some of the building officials I've dealt with. Those who can, do. Those who can't, INSPECT ( and get a cushy job at city hall with all ensuing benefits).


----------



## Chris Johnson

Well I live and work in a city of close to 3 million people, almost 6 million with the surrounding area. I agree some inspectors are drunk on power, they are usually the new guy who didn't make it as a tradesmen and feels spurned, just stroke his ego, he gets over it in a short time, I don't disrespect him I let him know I need his eyes too, nobody is perfect and we can all miss something. Again know which fights to pick.

Most inspectors are decent guys, easy going and can tell if a contractor is trying to pull the wool over his eyes, those are the guys they give a hard time to, and justifiably so.

I'm actually working on a project right now that technically we don't even have a permit, it was issued for one type of house and we are building another type!! Since however I do structural and everything I do is engineered the inspector has let me proceed while the revised permit is being reviewed and approved about a 6-8 week process around here. 

You don't get that freedom slamming the door in their faces at your own house telling them to come back with a court order.

I also believe a lot of it has to do with attitude and personal demeanor on your own part as well. If you come off with an attitude you will receive one right back. And these people can make your life and livelihood a hell if they want or they can make it easy and simple...I choose option #2.


----------



## CarrPainting

I ask not because I had a run in, but to not only expand my own knowledge base but for others to expand theres as well... Now what about Fire Marshals? Same deal with them as well?


----------



## greg24k

rosethornva said:


> That may be true in small towns and/or your neck of the woods, but it is not true in the big cities.
> 
> Some of these building inspectors are drunk on power and have so very little knowledge of the building codes. I've heard them make stuff up because they don't really know the code, but they think I'm some dumb girl who doesn't know any better.
> 
> I'm not impressed with some of the building officials I've dealt with. Those who can, do. Those who can't, INSPECT ( and get a cushy job at city hall with all ensuing benefits).


Rose, I agree with you... but I was only making a reference to them coming and knocking on the door with out a reason whats so ever.

I would think in the big cities, there is less chances them coming and knocking on the door unless you have a dumpster or a 50 story crane set-up and someone called it in.

Take Brooklyn for instance I know people who did the whole house remodeling done in and out, complete tear out, existing basements dug out to provide head room for another apartment, add a floor, etc... jobs that lasted for a year and if there is no complains, nobody is coming... because they have 1-2 guys to cover the whole Brooklyn.

In Jersey little different, here you got townships and each has its own Mayer, police force, and building department. Some towns are 5 blocks each way and a town next to it could cover the inspections, or someone comes in part time, some towns which are bigger could have 1-3 building inspectors... Even then they don't knock on doors unless there is a reason.


----------



## Seasons

As Greg said, they would need a probable cause to inspect the property. As we all know the sites can get pretty noisy so neighbours might be complaining. Also if trucks or trailers are parked on the street the neighbours could get upset.. you never know! Just make sure you have your permit. 

_____________________________________
Seasons Contracting LTD
Vancouver BC
www.seasonscontractingltd.com


----------



## KAP

Seasons said:


> As Greg said, *ALMOST 8 YEARS AGO *they would need a probable cause to inspect the property. As we all know the sites can get pretty noisy so neighbours might be complaining. Also if trucks or trailers are parked on the street the neighbours could get upset.. you never know! Just make sure you have your permit.
> 
> _____________________________________
> Seasons Contracting LTD
> Vancouver BC
> www.seasonscontractingltd.com


:laughing: :laughing:

JK... happens to most new posters... :whistling


----------



## 91782

I see dead people...


----------



## jproffer

MikeGC said:


> Anyone can refuse access to a CEO.
> 
> Then they have the option of getting an administrative search warrant based upon probable cause which has a much lower burden to get than a criminal search warrant.
> 
> If a valid search warrant is issued, you must let them in or risk arrest.
> 
> For rental property probable cause is created simply with the passage of time, the general condition of the surrounding area and the end use of the structure.
> 
> For unrented single family homes occupied by the owner no probable cause exists for those reasons listed above
> 
> 
> 
> *With the utmost respect Leo
> 
> this is incorrect. Renting purchases the tenancy right of quiet enjoyment which includes the right to keep out tresapassers.
> 
> Landlords have zero right to grant permission to any trespasser once they "temporarily sell" the right of quiet enjoyment to a tenant until such time as the tenancy ends.*





MikeGC said:


> I dont think its funny and in my view the law disagrees with you.
> 
> *You lose the right to inspect the private rented areas of a rented premises without permission from the tenant while the right of quiet enjoyment is transferred by lease except for exigent circumstances.*
> 
> You can not enter a rented premises unless you have permission from the tenant or exigent circumstances (which will be heavily scrutinized by law enforcement and the courts) even if permission is granted in the lease it can be revoked at any time despite an otherwise binding lease. *The 4th amendement guarantees that.*
> 
> Many misinformed landlords are under the false impression they can legally go into the private home area of a rented premises to inspect. That includes the rented premises of our largely helpless elderly parents, our inexperienced, less assertive children in their first apartment and special needs tenants.
> 
> There are plenty of annoying, uncooperative, time wasting, damage causing idiot tenants but there are also plenty of landlords that disrespect the privacy of their tenants rented home.
> 
> These landlords get arrested for criminal trespass despite their misunderstanding about their property rights. They are almost always wrong asserting the rights similar to those you claim.
> 
> Id cite the laws and cases you are not yet familiar with but thats not the point of the OPs thread and I already provided a reference to the institute for justice that litigates these types of cases.
> 
> Laws that required a landlord to provide access to rented premises have been declared unconstitutional because THE LANDLORD DOES NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT TO GRANT PERMISSION TO SEARCH ONCE THE UNIT IS RENTED.
> 
> Not funny at all really.


I can only speak for Illinois, but here goes.....

1. Renting "purchases" the right to use the property, correct. However a LL doesn't lose rights to enter property that they own. I can (and sometimes do) enter property, with 24 hours notice to the tenant, for an inspection of the property. 

I.E.- They haven't torn anything up...haven't let a water leak go without telling me...haven't left their dirty dishes in the sink for 3 months while the bugs have a party. I certainly CAN and do inspect for any reason I want, or for no reason at all....with the legally required 24 hours notice. 

And therefore, any person I want to bring with me, including govt. officials, are not trespassers, but they are MY guests in MY property.



2. Speaking only for IL, but you are wrong. As I said, all I have to do is give 24 hours notice and I can enter "their" property, which by the way is my property, for any reason..."exigent" or not. If the tenant isn't home, I can still go in. They had notice, they had their chance to be there when I came in, they didn't....tough chit.



3. The 4th amendment protects you from searches/entry/etc by the government, not by your landlord. If you come to my house, I can require that you let me pat you down...I can require that you let me search your wallet/purse/whatever...if you don't want to allow that, you can leave, but I can require it in MY own house. If 4A was upheld between private parties, that would be illegal....I assure you, it's not. It's kind of a DK move, but it's not illegal.


----------



## Leo G

Last post in this thread is 2011.


----------



## jproffer

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

I didn't even notice  . Well then, forget what I said....however true it may be lol.


----------



## Leo G

Well I saw Kent's response and he hasn't been here in forever.


----------



## 91782

Leo G said:


> Well I saw Kent's response and he hasn't been here in forever.


Yeah, he's around tho.


----------



## Leo G

I still talk with him.


----------



## heavy_d

I was fixing a wall for a client that had water damage from a leaky chimney. (Fixed already). The inspector came knocking because he saw a bag of insulation in the garage (door was open). Technically I suppose I needed a permit due to touching insulation but it was a straight up replace with new VB. Nothing structural. 
I refused him at the door and boy did he get in a huff. We let him leave voicemails (quite threatening) and dragged it out until the work was done, then made a deal with his boss (a woman) that she could come and inspect herself. 

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


----------



## rrk

In NJ then can enter home, I had it done twice in 30 years 
Both times no permit was needed


----------



## Stunt Carpenter

Inspectors have the biggest egos of anyone I have ever met. I had one two years ago where I build a deck and a fence on a house. I built the deck first and then call for inspection while I was onsite building the fence. 

Got an inspection report emailed to me saying the deck failed. I call the inspector to see when he inspected the deck. Took a 15min phone call to get him to admit he inspected the wrong deck a few blocks away. When he did show up I think he only said “Hello” and “Passed” before leaving.


----------



## GCTony

Like others; I've had a few inspectors with an attitude but not much different from dealing with our snowflake electrician sometimes. Generally they are just doing their jobs, enforcing the building code. We never argue with a inspector. They can be your best fiend or worst enemy. If we disagree with them we simply ask nicely. "would you show me that in the code book." If we still don't agree we let him know we'll contact his office for a second opinion. It's business, never personal. 


Regarding an inspector entering your home unauthorized, I don't know for sure but I would say no but that's a question for a Lawyer. 


Now Fire Marshal. On an out of town job, I had an Fire Marshal who had a side arm (Glock 21) and asked him about it. It don't know if it was BS or not but he explained, in that county of Virginia, fire marshals and fire inspectors are considered law enforcement. For me that means he has the rights and restrictions as a police officer. No access without permission or warrant.


----------

