# Bathroom Ventilation



## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Not sure where to post, HVAC, Plumbing or Electrical so I ended up here.

I have a potential customer that wants a Panasonic exhaust fan. No exceptions! OK, then. But they also want it to come on automatically when the humidity rises to the appropriate level. As far as I can tell, Panasonic does not make a fan with a humidistat built in....only one that has a timer, which they don't want.
My question is, can an external humidistat be hooked up like this one:









While I don't think aesthetically it will look so great, if I can figure out a location for it that will still allow it to control the fan correctly, it's an option. Right?
Another option perhaps?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

If the customer must have a Panasonic brand fan and must have it be activated by humidity and Panasonic doesn't make one...............









What's wrong with Nutone? They sell more bathroom exhaust fans in a day then Panasonic does in a year! Tried and true technology too as far as the humidity controlled fan goes. A Nutone QTXEN110S specifically has technology built into it to not "trip" to false humidity which is a problem. 

Does that switch have that built into it?

When customers want a solution I offer them one I can stand behind. When customers try to shoe horn us into their solution, I make sure they understand I have nothing to do with this, other than installing what you are telling us to install. I make very sure they understand they are pushing this product on us, we have no experience with it and whatever problems that may come up will come up and the only solution will be their money to solve them.

My solution = here is your financial exposure.

Their solution = unlimited financial exposure.

I"d tell them in this situation we always install a Nutone QTXEN110S, we know the product and can stand behind it. It's designed to do what they want, has specific technology engineered for this purpose and most importantly, the sensor is at the ceiling where it should be. If they insist on a Panasonic Fan, I'd insist they engineer this whole fiasco and it's all their responsibility to figure it all out and tell me about it.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Mike,

I totally agree with you. I'm just trying to weigh my options before any design work is done. I was just wondering if the concept was viable. I haven't even spoke with my electrician yet either. Obviously, if it can't be done, nothing further to discuss. But if it is possible, I need to at least address the option.
I think once I get a design for them to SEE, they might change their tune. This job has around $10k in tile work alone. If they see a stupid white box with a dial on it smack dab in the middle of the tile, I have a feeling Broan/Nutone will be in the near future!
This is only the hall bath so I'm trying to keep them happy so we can talk about the master bath to be done afterwards! :thumbup:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Yes it's viable. It will work to some degree or another. But probably not to the expectations of the customer.

Again, why is there a demand to have a Panasonic fan only?


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Yes it's viable. It will work to some degree or another. But probably not to the expectations of the customer.
> 
> Again, why is there a demand to have a Panasonic fan only?



They are very quiet and someone who has one told them they are very quiet:thumbsup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm guessing a show on HGTV.....

Maybe Bob Vila was talking ventilation? Ya know his word is gold


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

rbsremodeling said:


> They are very quiet and someone who has one told them they are very quiet:thumbsup:



Well I'll give them a price on what they ask. However, if they are THAT into quiet, the Nutone Mike mentioned is actually QUIETER then the Panasonic.

Panasonic FV-11VQ3: .08 sones
Nutone QTXEN110S: .07 sones


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

angus242 said:


> Well I'll give them a price on what they ask. However, if they are THAT into quiet, the Nutone Mike mentioned is actually QUIETER then the Panasonic.
> 
> Panasonic FV-11VQ3: .08 sones
> Nutone QTXEN110S: .07 sones



Panasonic also has bunch of ads out in all the magazines touting there whisper quiet, "green" energy efficient models


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

rbsremodeling said:


> Panasonic also has bunch of ads out in all the magazines touting there whisper quiet, "green" energy efficient models


I'm sure it's something like that...green doncha-know :blink:


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

A fan that knows when it needs to be on and needs to be off and thoroughly dispenses with all the infoor air quality issue causing humidity is way greener than any dumb fan that uses a tad less juice.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

It was quite popular in the late 60's and early 70's to control both the bathroom exhaust fan and the range hood fan with a wall mounted humidistat. I still do that today, when the customer requests. People with teens like the ability to have the fan come on by itself and turn itself off when the humidity is cleared. Not all fans that decorators choose have a built in humidistat. The one I use is the Honeywell one. Tried and true for the last 40 years. 










EDIT... if you go that route, be sure to get a line voltage humidistat. I didn't look up the one the OP linked to, but my gut tells me that looks like a low voltage humidistat to turn on 24 volt HVAC accessories.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

angus242 said:


> I'm sure it's something like that...green doncha-know :blink:


Laugh!!!! There is not and can be NOTHING "Green" about an exhaust fan!!! Damn marketing!


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

http://customer.honeywell.com/Honey...ch/getliterature.axd?LiteratureID=95-5367.pdf


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Laugh!!!! There is not and can be NOTHING "Green" about an exhaust fan!!! Damn marketing!


Sure, unless Panasonic tells everyone their exhaust fan factory is run off of wind power. (Meaning they purchase electricity from their local power company at the higher rate that the power company charges for the 100 megawatts of wind electricity they produce, so that means they are using wind)


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Laugh!!!! There is not and can be NOTHING "Green" about an exhaust fan!!! Damn marketing!


In that case you would have no objection to not having an exhaust fan in your bathroom I take it? 

The very existence of bathroom exhaust fans is green. It is an indoor air quality issue. Mold spores in the air are decidedly ungreen. There are things we have been doing for many years that fall under what we now call green. 

If a fan regulates itself according to a room's relative humidity I would call that green.

I often suggest and (have my electrician) install bathroom fan switches that automaticaly run a preset amount of time after the switch is turned to the off position, or, if the fan is switched by itself I always try to talk my customers into a timer switch. I consider that green. 

On a totally different note, I've never used a humidity controlled fan, is there some kind of manual override? If not how do you get it to switch on before, during or after a very smelly but relatively arid pooh?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

There is an optional little nutone accessory you can purchase that gets pre-wired to the unit, then you do a normal install with a wall switch. The fan operates in auto mode and if you flip the wall switch on and off this little thing from Nutone will cycle the fan. Whatever you have set the fan to run for 20, 30, etc... minutes it will then run for and turn itself off again. (just one more reason why this Nutone fan would be the better option then trying to do a work-around.)

This fan is not for the timid, it also wants a 6 inch duct.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> This fan is not for the timid, it also wants a 6 inch duct.


I think all their QT fans (Quiet Test) take 6" ducts. That's most of what makes them so quiet. Same CFM's, but less velocity.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Panasonic FV-11VQ3 = 4"
Nutone QTXEN110S = 6"

So Panny = happy customer with their "green" fan, an ugly mechanical box w/dial on $10k worth of tile and my happy electrician

or

Nutone = A quieter fan with humidistat built in, customer that can't boast about their new (stupid) fan, nice tile job, my happy electrician and my happy HVAC guy.

I say buy a regular fan with manual control and tell your spoiled kids how to turn the fan on while showering! 

Rant over. I'll pitch the Nutone and see how badly I offend them.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

duplicate


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

One other thing to think about is that these fans need replacement parts from time to time. NuTone has 50 years of history of having tremendous parts support. I can get NuTone fan motors, blower wheels, or heating elements from the 60's with no problem. Often the same day or just a couple days. I'm not so sure about how Panasonic's gonna be. Their product line, as far as fans go, is sorta "weird" from an electrician's perspective. The finished appearance is nice, but I sorta like to sell tried and true.


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