# Ready Mix All purpose all the way!?



## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

So I was talking to a taper the other day. 20+ years experience, union guy. He tapes with Ready Mix All purpose for every stage to skim (Bed, 2nd, possibly 3rd...possibly 4th then skim, sand, done).

He was finishing a commercial unit next door to where I'm doing some work. 1st day he bedded, I went back the following day and I over heard him telling the client how he won't be taping the corners today as they haven't dried yet (from 24hrs before).

I've never head anyone taping all levels with all purpose. He paper taped the flats (nice), does clean work, 20+ years experience, and everybody I talked to says he's top notch. His reasoning was that when you bed, the last thing you want is air pockets behind the tape so most guys water down or mix their 90/45. Why? Just all purpose it (he didn't mix the all purpose either...from the pail to the hawk). He says all purpose has more glue/adhesive in it, which is ideal for bedding. Then he follows up the subsequent coats with the same up to sand.

Claims zero call backs.

He also says he doesn't use a box for commercial flats...only in residential.

What do you guys make of that?


----------



## antnepi (Aug 26, 2008)

I have never seen that before. Most guys use the purple boxes for all 3 coats and get all 3 coats on in 1 day.


----------



## SK Remodeling (Feb 8, 2009)

I think if that is the way he is accustomed to do it than its fine. Some of the first few jobs I did were done like that ...until I realized there was a better way IMO. I dont like to do it that way mainly because as you said it takes to long to dry, especially if there are heay ares you have to float. Depending on temp and humidity it can take a really long time. My finishing is usually small add ons, kitchens with new soffits or soffit removal, a few walls here and there...small finishing jobs. I mostly use 45 min easy sand because I can apply my first coat and it will be ready for another coat almost by the time im done with the first coat and have my tools cleaned. I never have a problem with bubbles or it not sticking.


----------



## antnepi (Aug 26, 2008)

Whenever we do any finish work we usually use 20 or 45. If we really need to get it done we will mix the mud with hot water.


----------



## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

when i get into the occasional drywall job i always use that ready mix for first coats when they are thicker

i know one sub that always does that as he doesnt like mixing and getting chunks

for some repair work over the next few weeks its all 45 min mix...but they are rentals and the money is really tight so cant afford lost time waiting for drying


----------



## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

well commercial construction uses alot of vinyl wall coeverings , no finished ceilings, i would use lightweight for beads atleast less shrinkage. plus the sanders must hate it.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

We tape then apply 2 coats of 20 minute. Then apply finish coat with topping, for easier sanding. This is fast and efficient. 

Some of our subs use all purpose box mud only. The more glue statement makes sense, but I cannot imagine waiting for mud to dry throughout three or four coats, way to old school.


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Heritage, That method is fine.
It all depends on how big the project is and how many tapers there are.

Here's our finishing schedule. 
*Repairs*= Hot mud 5,20 or 45 min
*Small finishing jobs=* First/second coat 45 min and third coat AP.
*Large finishing jobs*= Prefill with hot mud, first,second and third coat AP

-Paul


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Most all homes I've worked in have always been done that way. It gives you the best finish. We would allow 7-10 days to finish an average house. 

After the bed coat we are gone for a day or two while it is drying. Usually taping the next job.:shifty:

We don't just work on one job only you know.:whistling

All bucket mud is just fine.arty:


----------



## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

one of the last really big projects I worked on, which was a three story store front property with apartments in the back and top floor, the tapes finished the same way.

They were using the boxes though, i know that machine mud is different then the ready mix but it has similar properties no? (it is a drying compound not a setting?) 

but they didnt use a any setting compounds. however this same taping crew would use the setting type on smaller jobs.


----------



## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

In many years of commercial work and smooth wall finish, that is all I see. No hot mud, and generally all purpose everywhere. We figure five days to mud and sand a job.


----------



## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

all purpose shrinks to much as far as im concerned. unless ther are other brands out there im not familiar with that dont ... but the mud is also heavier so i cant see using it for all 3 coats ...


----------



## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

antnepi said:


> I have never seen that before. Most guys use the purple boxes for all 3 coats and get all 3 coats on in 1 day.





antnepi said:


> Whenever we do any finish work we usually use 20 or 45. If we really need to get it done we will mix the mud with hot water.





ohiohomedoctor said:


> We tape then apply 2 coats of 20 minute. Then apply finish coat with topping, for easier sanding. This is fast and efficient.
> 
> Some of our subs use all purpose box mud only. The more glue statement makes sense, but I cannot imagine waiting for mud to dry throughout three or four coats, way to old school.


I guess when you come in and do 3 coats in 1 day, get paid and go on to the next one, you never get to see the hot mud come off in big flat chunks. 
The mud, adhesive needs to soak in and bond to the substrait. I might even wet the walls with a sponge if the weather is warm enough.
I use all Ready Mix, All purpose, all the way. :thumbup:


----------



## Jackpine Savage (Dec 27, 2010)

I had a taper on a job once that never used hot mud of any type. The job had 6 x 6" chunks of rock notched out for beam hangers, and he just filled 'em with premixed mud. He was also the most perfectionistic taper I have ever met, though it took him awhile to get a job done.


----------



## Willy is (May 20, 2010)

Whatever works I suppose, but that would not work for me.

The fact he can't do his work because he is waiting for mud to dry; that tells you something. If there were crews of other people waiting for him to finish his job it seems like there could be lots of people waiting for mud to dry......

....needlessly. Time is money for him and if he disrupts other workers schedules it can be a big deal.

I understand the issue of applying mud that may be going off may not have a good bond; that's valid.

On the other hand the bucket mud that sets by drying out can let go of paper when it re-wets; after a toilet overflows, a leak otherwise occurs or _even_ in the process of subsequent taping or painting. (and then you are doing a repair and are back to waiting again)

I think that the hot set mud may hold at times where the slow set may let go.

willy
--------------------------------------------
(edit) I was responding to this; 


Heritage said:


> 1st day he bedded, I went back the following day and I over heard him telling the client how he won't be taping the corners today as they haven't dried yet (from 24hrs before).


----------



## Jackpine Savage (Dec 27, 2010)

Willy is said:


> Whatever works I suppose, but that would not work for me.
> 
> The fact he can't do his work because he is waiting for mud to dry; that tells you something. If there were crews of other people waiting for him to finish his job it seems like there could be lots of people waiting for mud to dry......
> 
> ...


Yeah, the guy was frankly a nut. Nice work, but major OCD issues. 

You run into those guys that don't or won't get the time-is-money thing. Kind of reminds me of the farmer that was holding a pig up to an apple tree so it could eat apples. When the salesman told him that he could save a lot of time if he put the pig in its pen and pick the apples for it, he responded "what's time to a pig?".


----------



## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

hot mud can set up but it doesnt mean thats its dry ... so its not always the time saver people say it is.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Everybody is always in a hurry once the drywall is up.Seems they are always behind schedule and want you to make it up for them.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

From observation I'd say most drywallers around here just use box mud for everything. Less time mixing I suppose.

Except one old guy I recall mixed hot mud with a few big scoops of box mud.


----------



## Willy is (May 20, 2010)

My situation is different from production dry wallers. Quite often in doing small repairs or multi day operations I have to focus on getting in, starting and finishing a lot of small operations; demo, rock, mud, sand, prime topcoat, sometimes with trimming and other operations. On occasion people are using the rooms right before I show, and in the case of bathrooms, sometimes that evening. Each new day of work may mean a repeating tarp and plastification routine. Comparing it to new construction is apples to oranges.

I was leaving a large grocery store yesterday that was being remodeled in the breezeway they had done some drywall mudding. (something like a bench?!)? the temp, being about 15 foot from the electronic door at 5 pm was probably about 40-45 degrees. I saw that many people had walked by, it looked as though one person had sat on the mud covered bench, and then when other people noticed that it was wet (from the butt print left in the mud), they had to touch it....... just to see if it was _still wet_. LOL; it was. 
It may yet still be. There's a place for everything. My point was the guy mentioned by the OP hat to wait 2 days to work his corners. That wouldn't work for me in many situations; other times I'm sure it would be no big deal.

willy


----------



## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Sir Mixalot said:


> *Large finishing jobs*= *Prefill with hot mud*, first,second and third coat AP


 Well , When I say prefill with hot mud, I'm just talking about filling any gaps larger than 1/4", broken corners or any miscuts around boxes (we usually don't have any of these though) :whistling.
-Paul


----------



## Mudshark (Feb 12, 2009)

Heritage said:


> So I was talking to a taper the other day. 20+ years experience, union guy. He tapes with Ready Mix All purpose for every stage to skim (Bed, 2nd, possibly 3rd...possibly 4th then skim, sand, done). What do you guys make of that?




From what I have learned over on Drywall Talk, many tapers do it this way. Seems lots of times their local supplier only supplies All Pupose so thats what is used.

In order to embed paper tapes with air drying drywall compound (as opposed to hotmuds) you need a mud that has glue in it. The All Purpose is meant to satisfy the requirements of a finish coat as well as a taping compound. It does not have as much glue in it as taping mud which is made specifically for sticking tapes and beads. 

I use taping mud for taping and finishing mud for finishing. For small jobs All Purpose will work but is a comprimise at best.


----------



## Probity Drywall (Mar 2, 2012)

I belive beadex warrenty requires taping mud for bedding. I 3 coat with finishing and complete a house every 4 days


----------



## Robinson_Cnst (Jan 5, 2012)

Some people refuse to change. I worked with painters who think all mud was the same, and had no idea what hot mud was. All different muds have thier purpose, some people just don't even learn what it is. 

Anyone who would mud an entire job using one kind of mud, IMO needs to go back to drywall school. I have a saying I like to use. It doesn't matter how long you been doing it, doesn't mean your doing it right.


----------



## iDAHOchris (Feb 11, 2012)

Yup:thumbsup:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 9, 2011)

My current drywall sub only uses premix. The one before him would use 20 first 2 coats, final with premix. 

The last guy had way more imperfections in the final product. The also made more of a mess. The current sub is cleaner, and provides a near flawless job consistently. Much cleaner jobsite as well. That's why he the current sub.

I use 20 on small repairs to get the repairs done in a day.


----------



## JMC1981 (Aug 27, 2011)

oldrivers said:


> hot mud can set up but it doesnt mean thats its dry ... so its not always the time saver people say it is.



Uh, how do you pack tubs, large gaps, or anything else of that sort and expect it to dry faster than durabond / hot mud? In fact, you aren't supposed to coat around tubs / showers with anything but durabond / hot mud. Even if you did coat a tub / shower with joint compound you would be waiting a week for it to dry. 

The adhesive argument works. In fact, if you're using No-Coat or a product similar to that for your corner bead and or any off-angles it specifically calls for you to use joint compound and not durabond / hot mud for this reason.


----------



## Probity Drywall (Mar 2, 2012)

I've seen hot mud shed because it does't bond as good as premix taping mud. Sometimes I use it in bathrooms because it is more mold resistant than premix. As a taper in calgary I attempted to hot mud the first coat, but the sanders always managed to burn through the finish coat and expose the dencer hot mud undercoat. As a supervisor I notest a delayed shrinkage trend with my hot mud tapers. Inevetably I gave it up because I didn't want to deliver more water and numerouse materials.


----------



## Probity Drywall (Mar 2, 2012)

I prefill with synko 90. Any one seen swelling or bonding issues with this? Maby confill or a fibre reinforced fast set would be better?


----------



## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I would say you answered your own question when you said he was Union, they are shown how to do it so they get more HOURS, All Union Jobs cost more and you always have set backs for one reason or another time delays and cost over runs:laughing:
Also most tapers are non union so they have to get the job done faster at a lower price. You get under bid means you have to do it faster. with union work your given enough time to do a good job and your told to take your time cause you need to collect those Hours
So now you see all drywall being done by Mexican crews who don't get a 1/4 of the pay a union worker gets, yet they come in and blow the doors off the slow crews, who end up in the unemployment lines.:no:


----------



## Probity Drywall (Mar 2, 2012)

No union in Alberta. Edmonton is Top 5 most afordable place to live in Canada. Home sick mexicans with no intention of staying = low production & low quality.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I prefer to use premix for everything, if the particular situation is compatible. Less time mixing, cleaning, and it's a less costly product. On the other hand, I'll also use Durabond for a complete taping job, and leave it ready to paint (no sanding). Adhesion issues I solve with some acrylic modifier, but that does slow drying. My answer is how I do it depends on the specific situation. If I have the time, premix is a cheaper product and takes less man-hours.


----------



## JMC1981 (Aug 27, 2011)

Still wondering how anyone packs tubs with joint compound. Seems like the drying time would take days if not weeks.


----------



## Probity Drywall (Mar 2, 2012)

What do you mean by packing tubs? 
Are you talking about filling the nailing flange on a fibre glass tub?


----------



## JMC1981 (Aug 27, 2011)

hdavis said:


> I prefer to use premix for everything, if the particular situation is compatible. Less time mixing, cleaning, and it's a less costly product. On the other hand, I'll also use Durabond for a complete taping job, and leave it ready to paint (no sanding). Adhesion issues I solve with some acrylic modifier, but that does slow drying. My answer is how I do it depends on the specific situation. If I have the time, premix is a cheaper product and takes less man-hours.





Probity Drywall said:


> What do you mean by packing tubs?
> Are you talking about filling the nailing flange on a fibre glass tub?


No, I'm talking about filling the entire tub with joint compound .... yes I'm talking about filling the nail flange. Also, joint compound can become soft again with enough water which is why you're not supposed to use it around tubs where water will be in constant contact.


----------



## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

Whatever works for him I guess as long as the quality and speed are competitive. When I heard he was "union", I discounted most of his process anyway.


----------



## Probity Drywall (Mar 2, 2012)

Around here its standard to have at least one row of tile. It is filled with thinset by the tile guy. Never been asked to mud tight to it. Again no union here just peice work


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

JMC1981 said:


> No, I'm talking about filling the entire tub with joint compound .... yes I'm talking about filling the nail flange. Also, joint compound can become soft again with enough water which is why you're not supposed to use it around tubs where water will be in constant contact.


Hot mud, mesh tape, leave a gap and final with thick latex product.


----------



## JMC1981 (Aug 27, 2011)

hdavis said:


> Hot mud, mesh tape, leave a gap and final with thick latex product.



Well, we are based out of Maine, we work in the surrounding states as well. Most of your average sized new houses have a stand-up shower / tub. No tile around the rub. The cheap and hack wat to do it is to hang the sheetrock over flange all the way to the tub and flat tape it. The end finish looks like trash. Thus, we pack the tubs with easy sand 90 (hot mud), mesh tape it, hot mud it again, and finish with another tight skim. I see no way to do this with premixed (joint compound).


----------



## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

JMC1981 said:


> Well, we are based out of Maine, we work in the surrounding states as well. Most of your average sized new houses have a stand-up shower / tub. No tile around the rub. The cheap and hack wat to do it is to hang the sheetrock over flange all the way to the tub and flat tape it. The end finish looks like trash. Thus, we pack the tubs with easy sand 90 (hot mud), mesh tape it, hot mud it again, and finish with another tight skim. I see no way to do this with premixed (joint compound).


We do it the same way here! :thumbsup:



> No, I'm talking about filling the entire tub with joint compound .... yes I'm talking about filling the nail flange


Bahaha! That friggen cracked me up. Had a good laugh at that one! :laughing:


----------

