# Energy Efficient lighting? Lighting specialists?



## CNC (Mar 29, 2006)

Is anyone using alot of, or specializing in lighting retrofits? Mainley energy efficient stuff? CFL, LEd, and Flourescent conversions? Curious if anyone is using this Green craze to market new services in electrical. Not that i think energy effcient stuff is a new craze, just becoming more popular in my area. There is alot of very cool stuff out there for lighting, just wondering if anyone is trying to push or specialize in energy efficient lighting? 
I have googled alot, and have found really cool stuff you dont see anywhere, LED floods with 50,000 Hour life. I have done alot of LED retrofits on traffic signals, just dont think its gotten to much to the consumer, other then CFL's for lighting. I guess its on the same line with solar, energy audits, and so on, anyone do this stuff?


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## CNC (Mar 29, 2006)

come on its friday, you guys should be off work!


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## hbelectric (Oct 8, 2007)

I don't bother even bidding on retrofit projects, those are reserved for the companies who don't know how to do electrical work.


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## wireless (Nov 2, 2006)

hbelectric said:


> I don't bother even bidding on retrofit projects, those are reserved for the companies who don't know how to do electrical work.


I don't think it is the trade knowledge that is missing it is for sure the business knowledge missing.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

CNC said:


> Is anyone using alot of, or specializing in lighting retrofits? Mainley energy efficient stuff? CFL, LEd, and Flourescent conversions? Curious if anyone is using this Green craze to market new services in electrical. Not that i think energy effcient stuff is a new craze, just becoming more popular in my area. There is alot of very cool stuff out there for lighting, just wondering if anyone is trying to push or specialize in energy efficient lighting?
> I have googled alot, and have found really cool stuff you dont see anywhere, LED floods with 50,000 Hour life. I have done alot of LED retrofits on traffic signals, just dont think its gotten to much to the consumer, other then CFL's for lighting. I guess its on the same line with solar, energy audits, and so on, anyone do this stuff?


I've been involved with an energy management company for the last 7 years on and off doing mostly fluorescents and hid's and mostly large school districts and some military bases. If you walk into a school district and tell them you can give them better, brighter, cooler running lights, and get rid of the haz mat pcb ballasts, the smell of cooking and the dripping tar, and those coulpe of buzzer that seem to be in every classroom, and it won't cost them anything and in fact they will get a sizable check back in return it's a pretty easy sell. Most of these places have an energy manager on staff so they have a good understanding of how it works. Most jobs of any size have probably already done the t-8 thing but there is probably plenty of places to cut kw's and save dollars. Our biggest kw cruncher was the 4 lamp to 2 lamp troffer conversion with new centering brackets and a reflector.... In my state no license is required to change a ballast.


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

hbelectric said:


> I don't bother even bidding on retrofit projects, those are reserved for the companies who don't know how to do electrical work.


HB is right on this one unless you pay your guys nothing.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Get inline with the PoCo and it can be VERY, VERY profitable.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Bkessler said:


> HB is right on this one unless you pay your guys nothing.


Everything i know about retrofiting is performance based contracts and piecework. The work was usually nights and very boring. Our guys usually made 2 or 3 times DB wages. 3 1/2 nights a week was our normal workweek.


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## Waco (May 22, 2008)

I recently retrofit a kitchen remodel with can lights using dimmable fluorescents and LED pucks. I worries about both of them, but they turned out great! The LEDS give a good, adequate light to the countertop and the ceiling lights were excellent in brightness and color. Sure sold me!

That job had a basement where it was easy to install the low voltage transformers feeding counter switches for the LEDs.  I haven't decided how I might handle such a setup on a slab-floor application. Maybe use one of the cabinets over the refrigerator for receptacles or install receptacles near the service panel and feed the low voltage out with #14 NMC.

Problem is, low voltage is sensitive to voltage drop over distances.


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## Angel SA (Jun 28, 2008)

We have a power shortage in SA so most installations require energy efficient lights. Its quite norman to fit a whole house / business with florecent and compact florecent. As a lot of dwellings has generators for power cuts, you need as little strain on your supply as possible as most can only afford small units.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

until LED's come down in price a LOT, their use will be limited to those that have green hearts _and_ big green wallets. While they are proved to be energy savers, their initial material costs are quite prohibitive.

The traffic light situation is one of the few that is easy to justify the costs. Energy savings are actually a lesser benefit than maintenance cost savings, although should not be discounted. Since the life of an LED traffic signal is so much greater than that of the typical incandescent, the man hours used to change the lights is the greatest cost of use. This quickly abates the cost of materials when using LED fixtures.


The one thing not mentioned is investigation in tax incentives for installing energy efficient lighting. There is a method of relating a lighting retrofit to a direct tax savings if done properly. This is obviously above any energy cost savings and results in a faster realization of savings for "going green".


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

I've heard of led traffic lights having problems in certain sunlight angles or at least more so than incandescents. I know at least the city of Aurora CO had these issues a few years ago. Accidents, deaths, and lawsuits come to mind when messing up traffic lights.


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## Jim M (Jun 7, 2007)

I am trying a PAR 30 LED bulb that uses 3 watts. The cost at the supply house was $15 not the $50 from the on-line places.

I don't think it is bright enough even though it had something like 30 leds and the color is too blue. I don't remember the color temperature of the bulb. Will post later.


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## CNC (Mar 29, 2006)

I have been reading a lot about LED stuff, they have some pretty neat stuff out there, i think having the knowledge about the stuff, for home owners would be great. Im in he process of trying to slow down my meter at my own house with different products. I think the fact that an LED last so long, will out weigh the cost, not to mention how much less power they use, your right about the color spectrum, thats what im waiting to figure out.


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## CNC (Mar 29, 2006)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Get inline with the PoCo and it can be VERY, VERY profitable.


i have heard thing like this, the rebates, and so on, doing just retrofits?


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## EnergyConscious (Feb 12, 2015)

*Lighting Retrofits*

CNC,

I specialize specifically, in the business of commercial lighting retrofits. Not sure what your question specifically is. But basically it comes down to a good payback. When you are in a state that offers good incentives I typically see that if you can get somewhere in the 2 year payback plus or minus. The jobs start to become really enticing for a building owner when they are saving money in 24 months and the lights should last 10 years. Especially if their building's lighting was installed 25 years ago.

Biggest problem is getting people to believe that you are not selling snake oil. Its hard for people to believe that incentives come from electrical companies. It's like saying shell oil is going to pay you to upgrade your car to be more fuel efficient. However, when the incentive check clears they usually come around. 

New to the forum, hello to everyone.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

EnergyConscious said:


> can get somewhere in the 2 year payback


That's pretty good. I've heard a 10 year payback is a typical 'investment horizon.'


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## EnergyConscious (Feb 12, 2015)

*energy savings*

If I were selling big real estate deals that would work. But when you are selling a project dependent on energy savings it's almost certainly a No-Go at 4+ years. However, if the owner is looking to upgrade the interior more for looks and energy savings is just a perk it works just fine. Also, exterior parking and street lighting can be a longer payback cycle as well. That is when maintenance savings really comes into play. 

All that being said, I have never seen a project go over a 5.5 year payback. The savings from LED is really pretty good no matter what you are starting with. Those KWH add up quick.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

2
4
5.5
10

this small sample of four without weighting the numbers gives ~half the people going for between 4 and 5.5, "the interquartile range." Excel may give a different more accurate answer for this range.

More data is better data! 

Here's my weighting with 8 samples and using your numbers, but I'm guessing 

2
4
4
5.5
5.5
5.5
5.5
10

gives an eyeball IQR of 4 and 5.5 for this distribution. Again!

Sodium vapor or solid green light gives the most lumens/watt but who wants yellow or green light?


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