# Why Canada sucks for supplies.



## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

So I need to put some snow guards on some polycarbonate roofed carports I built. They're a $1.10 ea in the U.S. Up here, from a roofing supplier, $15 ea. 

I need 40. That's $600 for little pieces of plastic. For that money, I could fly down to New York, have a burger, get a rub'n tug, buy a gun and shoot some people, pick up my little plastic things, fly back home and still be ahead.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

So what are you waiting for?


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## Sar-Con (Jun 23, 2010)

Yep, I was ranting about the very same thing earlier!

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/dewalt-12-inch-slider-hd-399-a-108108/


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Someones gotta pay for the free health care:laughing:

Just kidding guys. I really feel for you on the price differences. On the other hand it is what it is and everyone else up there is in the same boat.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Or how tools are soo much more expensive... so I go to amazon.ca .... they don't sell tools.... go to amazon.com ... .they do, they just don't ship to Canada....


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

I know the feeling
http://www.contractortalk.com/f22/makes-me-so-dam-mad-100437/index2/#post1228592


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## painterman (Feb 5, 2005)

Why don't you order them online and have them sent. Even if they get caught at the boarder it has to be cheaper than $15 a piece.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

Brutus said:


> Or how tools are soo much more expensive... so I go to amazon.ca .... they don't sell tools.... go to amazon.com ... .they do, they just don't ship to Canada....


they dont ship to us because their trucks cant drive in the damn snow you jinxed us with:whistling


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Brutus said:


> Or how tools are soo much more expensive... so I go to amazon.ca .... they don't sell tools.... go to amazon.com ... .they do, they just don't ship to Canada....


I buy tons of stuff from amazon and pick it up just across the border. $5-12 each time.

Tools are anywhere from 10-60% cheaper, and Amazon ships free on a lot of stuff.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Winchester said:


> I buy tons of stuff from amazon and pick it up just across the border. $5-12 each time.
> 
> Tools are anywhere from 10-60% cheaper, and Amazon ships free on a lot of stuff.


6-8 hour drive to the border for me... wouldn't work unless I am buying a lot of stuff.. I can't** fit that all into our 1 bedroom apartment.


**by can't, I mean Ms. Brutus wont let me. :laughing:


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## JWilliams (Nov 11, 2008)

just get you a nice usa contact and have them send you the stuff?


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Blame the french.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

Can you tell us a bit about the procedures you face when you import something?

I used to buy stuff from the UK, Italy, the Netherlands and the US when I was in Germany. The VAT was 15 % back then and I had to pay 3.8% import duty on the stuff coming from outside the EU. Of course I had to charge the VAT when I sold stuff as well.

I believe that there is no duty from the US to Canada and vice versa. Is this correct?

If you buy the stuff from the US, obviously you won't pay sales tax here, and have to pay your GST or whatever it is called when it comes to you. What is your GST now? Does it vary by province? Does the provincial come on top of the federal and the city or "county" or "school" come on top of that?

I guess I don't understand why you don't buy the stuff and have it sent to you. A friend in Germany used to buy stuff on the internet and have it sent to me and I would put it in the post or send it UPS to him. I guess this was because the firms he was buying from didn't want to deal with the shipment, or because he was evading the VAT and import duty that way.

Tell us how it works and why you're not importing directly.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

cleveman said:


> Can you tell us a bit about the procedures you face when you import something?
> 
> I used to buy stuff from the UK, Italy, the Netherlands and the US when I was in Germany. The VAT was 15 % back then and I had to pay 3.8% import duty on the stuff coming from outside the EU. Of course I had to charge the VAT when I sold stuff as well.
> 
> ...


I just paid duty on something I ordered from the states... 26$.

We have an HST. Harmonized sales tax here in NS. It's at 15%.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

We don't pay duty on stuff "made" in North America.

Stuff made in most European countries is little to none as well, I think. So if you're buying quality tools it is more than worth it.

Mostly just tax at the border.

I got $1300 of tools a few weeks ago and paid 12% tax at the border, no duty.
Buying the same stuff in Canada would have cost around $2000 + 12% tax.

So I saved $700 and it cost me 3 hours + gas, but since I filled up my tank in the USA I saved a ton on gas too. :laughing:

Even if you buy stuff and get it shipped over the border, you'll end up paying brokerage fees just for the company to bring it across. For example last time I did that with UPS it cost me $80 on top of the tax and duty for "brokerage fees".


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I imported a lot of my tools back to Canada from the US, tools I took to the US when I moved there in '04. When I went to the US no problem, didn't pay a dime, brought them back and paid import fees and HST to the tune of $5600.00.

Guess what I'm claiming on my taxes this year


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i was going to scrap these,your welcome to them Chris we can get a burger and you can bring your gun but you can forget the rubntug:no:


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

sounds like the hst in Nova Scotia is 15% and 12% in Vancouver.

The $80 UPS charges doesn't sound too bad if the stuff is worth something.

The first time I imported stuff into Germany from the US, I did all the paperwork myself and paid the government myself. I think it is important to do stuff yourself so you understand how it is done.

You might spend more than $80 doing it yourself the first time if it is being transported by a transport company.

After my first container, I worked with something like a customs broker and they only charged me something like DM 60 back then for the whole deal, and gave me like 30 days to pay the bill, which was for 3.8% and then 15% VAT. It was a 40' container, so it was a chunk of change. I couldn't believe that they gave me 30 days to pay. I don't know if they had the same agreement with the gov't or not, but I used them again and again after that.

Another thing which used to be very important was your HST number, which I think was "harmonized system of tariffs". This was "harmonized" so that a widget was the same throughout the world. You first wanted to look at your product and determine if it was a widget or a gizmo or a whatyamajig. If the rate on widgets was 3.8% and gizmos were 12%, then you wanted it to be a widget if at all possible. What this means is that you would submit the paperwork as a widget, not just have it show up at the border and have the gov't decide it was a gizmo. This was very important, because once a ruling was made, it was done.

Anyway, it seems to me that you guys having trouble should hook up with supply firms across the border and your troubles will cease. It's difficult to believe that this need hasn't been exploited already.

Do you guys let yourselves get fleeced on electronics as well, or are they more competitive?


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

cleveman said:


> Do you guys let yourselves get fleeced on electronics as well, or are they more competitive?



I have a 19" TV from the 90's and a record player... If I ever decide to upgrade.... I'm screwed :laughing:

This laptop is my only modern tech item. And I got it on sale at Best Buy for $380. From what my buddy told me (tech guy at a Canadian Best Buy competitor), it was a pretty darn good deal.


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Since I moved to US about 6 years ago, I can afford to buy the best of the electronics in reasonable price,I was only able to watch in Canada..


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Munanbak said:


> Amazon.ca sells tools now
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/Home-Improvement/b/ref=sa_menu_atools7?ie=UTF8&node=3006902011
> 
> or just go to amazon.ca then click 'tools and building supplies' on the left


Those are no deal


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## Mountain Top (Nov 19, 2011)

Winchester said:


> I don't see how price of items is linked to health care. That's us getting fleeced by retailers.
> 
> It's us getting fleeced by the government in taxes that pays for the health care.


I'm sorry, WHAT? :w00t:

No, what you see is THE RETAILERS getting fleeced by the government to pay for your health care.

How, on God's green earth, could a retailer get away with charging $15 for a part that costs $1.10 right across the border? 

Taxes, that's how. 

After reading this thread, I think I found my next business. Running black market building supplies up to Canada! I could retire in a year!


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Mountain Top said:


> I'm sorry, WHAT? :w00t:
> 
> No, what you see is THE RETAILERS getting fleeced by the government to pay for your health care.
> 
> ...


So can you tell me what taxes Canadian retailers pay? You seem to have all the information.

(p.s. Canadian corporate income tax rate is *half* of what the US corporate income tax is)


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## Mountain Top (Nov 19, 2011)

Winchester said:


> So can you tell me what taxes Canadian retailers pay? You seem to have all the information.
> 
> Nope, no clue. But I do know basic economics. There is no free lunch, somebody has to pay for your health care. And yea, eventually it does end up being you.
> 
> No way can a retailer gouge you like that and get away with it without the governments ok. And why is that? Follow the money. I'll wager most of it is going in the governments pocket.


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

Mountain Top said:


> I'm sorry, WHAT? :w00t:
> 
> No, what you see is THE RETAILERS getting fleeced by the government to pay for your health care.
> 
> ...


and ireland


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Mountain Top said:


> No way can a retailer gouge you like that and get away with it without the governments ok.



They can and do. 
the government does not set prices

I had a long talk with a mom and pop tool shop. He reminded me of the rule of capitalism, the price is determined by what the market will bear. The prices will eventually even out, the world is shrinking and people realize they have been getting screwed.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Chris Johnson said:


> Those are no deal


they do have some things that HD, Rona or Kent and the local yards don't carry, though.

That milwaukee spade bit set looks nice. And 10$.... The Stiletto stuff is no good deal. Im about to venture into the bosch section... see how this goes.

Bosch spade bit set on for 14$.... that's a pretty good deal. I saw those today at HD and they were selling for about 6$ a bit. I already have the 1-1/2" bit (thanks to joe the pro!)


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

The prices we pay is not to cover our health care. We pay income and sales tax for that kind of stuff....



Mountain Top said:


> Nope, no clue. But I do know basic economics. There is no free lunch, somebody has to pay for your health care. And yea, eventually it does end up being you.
> 
> No way can a retailer gouge you like that and get away with it without the governments ok. And why is that? Follow the money. I'll wager most of it is going in the governments pocket.


Okay genius, I give up. You obviously know more about Canadian taxes and business than I do.


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## Mountain Top (Nov 19, 2011)

hughjazz said:


> They can and do.
> the government does not set prices
> 
> I had a long talk with a mom and pop tool shop. He reminded me of the rule of capitalism, the price is determined by what the market will bear. The prices will eventually even out, the world is shrinking and people realize they have been getting screwed.



No, that's not what I meant. The government is not setting the price. They are forcing the merchant to charge $15 for a $1 part by taxing it so heavily. It wouldn't matter if the part was 1 or 5 dollars. The tax would be relative.

Capitalism would be somebody discovering that a merchant is charging $15 for a $1 part, and then undercutting that price by a dollar, figuring he is still making $13 on that part.

And so on until it got down to the going rate, which should be $1. If nobody is doing that, then there is either price fixing going on, or it has to sell for $15 because of the tax burden set upon the merchant by the government.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

grrr, still dont have my bosch bit...although i did get two of the lennox hole saw... one from here and one through fine homebuilding :clap:


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## Munanbak (Jan 19, 2011)

Chris Johnson said:


> Those are no deal


And not even close to the selection... give it time, give it time


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Munanbak said:


> And not even close to the selection... give it time, give it time


Until it has Occidentals, I won't be too impressed... :laughing:


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## Wood_Smith (Jul 9, 2009)

Brutus said:


> Or how tools are soo much more expensive... so I go to amazon.ca .... they don't sell tools.... go to amazon.com ... .they do, they just don't ship to Canada....


Brutus-- they must be listening to you!- check this out:
http://www.amazon.ca/Home-Improvement/b/ref=sa_menu_atools7?ie=UTF8&node=3006902011
It says it's in testing (beta) stage, but finally they will be doing it. :thumbsup:


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Mountain Top said:


> No, that's not what I meant. The government is not setting the price. They are forcing the merchant to charge $15 for a $1 part by taxing it so heavily. It wouldn't matter if the part was 1 or 5 dollars. The tax would be relative.
> 
> Capitalism would be somebody discovering that a merchant is charging $15 for a $1 part, and then undercutting that price by a dollar, figuring he is still making $13 on that part.
> 
> And so on until it got down to the going rate, which should be $1. If nobody is doing that, then there is either price fixing going on, or it has to sell for $15 because of the tax burden set upon the merchant by the government.



http://blogdg.ctl.ca/2011/09/dont_blame_the_higher_price_of.html

read this. Sorry Mountain top, your mistaken



> Jim Saunders, a practice leader at consultancy Pricing Solutions in Toronto made this refreshingly honest statement. “It’s really about what the consumer is willing to pay.” Thank you Mr. Saunders for telling it like it is. For many years, the Canadian dollar was well below the U.S. dollar in value. Canadians have become accustomed to paying more for American made goods.


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## Wood_Smith (Jul 9, 2009)

A big part of the problem is the scale of population. Canada is about 1/10 the size of the U.S. Go to a factory and say "how much per unit for 1000 
widgets?" Then say "Ok, how much per unit for 10,000?"
I'll bet there will be quite a difference right there.
The government makes retailers pay 5% GST (Goods and Services Tax) on materials for resale, but the retailers can get that back. They charge the consumer Provincial Sales Tax (unless a province has a harmonized (combined GST and PST) which they submit to provincial government.
Confused? Me too, and I live here!


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Wood_Smith said:


> A big part of the problem is the scale of population. Canada is about 1/10 the size of the U.S. Go to a factory and say "how much per unit for 1000
> widgets?" Then say "Ok, how much per unit for 10,000?"
> I'll bet there will be quite a difference right there.
> The government makes retailers pay 5% GST (Goods and Services Tax) on materials for resale, but the retailers can get that back. They charge the consumer Provincial Sales Tax (unless a province has a harmonized (combined GST and PST) which they submit to provincial government.
> Confused? Me too, and I live here!


It's still cheaper to cross border shop in the states. Including taxes.

If the dollar stays on par, the Canadian retailers will either lower prices, or go out of business.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

hughjazz said:


> It's still cheaper to cross border shop in the states. Including taxes.
> 
> If the dollar stays on par, the Canadian retailers will either lower prices, or go out of business.


Not for woodsmith, there. :no:

They make him pay to LEAVE the island.... :whistling:


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Wood_Smith said:


> A big part of the problem is the scale of population. Canada is about 1/10 the size of the U.S. Go to a factory and say "how much per unit for 1000
> widgets?" Then say "Ok, how much per unit for 10,000?"
> I'll bet there will be quite a difference right there.
> The government makes retailers pay 5% GST (Goods and Services Tax) on materials for resale, but the retailers can get that back. They charge the consumer Provincial Sales Tax (unless a province has a harmonized (combined GST and PST) which they submit to provincial government.
> Confused? Me too, and I live here!


I agree, our population and large land mass plays a part in the higher prices. Also less competition to drive down prices.

It has nothing to do with government, taxes, or health care.

There are people here who are trying to make it something it isn't.

1 part scale, 1 part logistics, and 1 part gouging


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

Equllibrium may never be reached, because it is ever-changing.

One of the most elusive of the four things (there are four, right?) to get perfect competition is perfect knowledte. A seller has to know that he can get $10/bushel for his corn, or he'll sell it for $2.

Likewise, the consumer must know that he can get that tool or auto part for 80% less somewhere else.

Secondly, it must be worth his trouble.

All these Canadians and one Irishman are telling us how expensive stuff is, but only a handful are doing anything about it.

The black market comment from the guy in the US is good. The gray and black market becomes quite a factor when there are market abnormalities in play.

It would be interesting as hell to see what would happen if the presidential candidate Cain or whatever his name is was successful and got a 9% national sales tax in place. Can you imagine what the price of used cars would do?

And people would stop writing invoices for everything overnight and begin taking cash under the table.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Winchester said:


> I agree, our population and large land mass plays a part in the higher prices. Also less competition to drive down prices.
> 
> It has nothing to do with government, taxes, or health care.
> 
> ...



And ya know... after living both sides of the boarder.... I still would choose Canada... (preferably NS), over anywhere else. High prices and all. :thumbsup:


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## Mountain Top (Nov 19, 2011)

hughjazz said:


> http://blogdg.ctl.ca/2011/09/dont_blame_the_higher_price_of.html
> 
> read this. Sorry Mountain top, your mistaken



:surrender: :surrender: :surrender: :surrender: :surrender: :surrender:

I read the article in the link you provided. I can't tell if I'm wrong, but I'm sure confused. :confused1:

I can't get my head around the OP and the price of that snowguard. Here's the link to the product he is referring to.

http://www.snowguards.com

The only way it makes sense to me is if the guy quoted him a price on the wrong model. The plastic ones are 1.10 (US dollars) and the bronze ones are $9.99. That would be understandable.

But to claim that a part that goes for a buck in the states is $15 across the bordor seems a bit odd, to say the least.

Anyway, I'm done. I heard a rumor that there are some cold beers left in the fridge, so I gotta get back to it. :drink:


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## Wood_Smith (Jul 9, 2009)

Brutus said:


> Not for woodsmith, there. :no:
> 
> They make him pay to LEAVE the island.... :whistling:


True, Brutus, our bridge does have a toll. But in all fairness, when we had to take the ferry, we paid the same toll (well, inflation has increased it over the years, but when they switched from boat to asphalt, it was the same). Back then, when we had a gazillion tourists here in summer, there could easily be a 4-5 hour wait for a boat. Imagine being a big rig trucker getting paid by the load, and not the hour?
Also, at the other end of our small Island, you pay $65 for the ferry, the bridge is $43. So, what you do if you want to experience the boat ride is come across it in Nova Scotia (no toll booth on that side) and leave on the bridge where you pay the $43.
And look at British Columbia- to go from the mainland to Vancouver Island, it's $75 one way for a car and two passengers!! You can cram as many people in your minivan on our bridge and still pay $43 two ways!
Every sit on a ferry boat with 200 hungry, cranky passengers with crying kids? :no:


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## Build Elect (Nov 1, 2011)

Excuse my ignorance but, what the heck is the purpose of a snow guard. We don't have a need for such things here in New Zealand as it doesn't get that cold.


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## Mountain Top (Nov 19, 2011)

Build Elect said:


> Excuse my ignorance but, what the heck is the purpose of a snow guard. We don't have a need for such things here in New Zealand as it doesn't get that cold.


I'd be willing to trade houses with you for the next 6 months, so you can get some first hand experience with the heavenly experience of snow & ice. Your beer would never get warm!:thumbsup:


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

darr1 said:


> if you want to know expensive come to ireland , a milwaukee sliding 12 inch chop saw will set you back about 1400 euro


You can buy a Festool with all the accessories for that here.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

remove bad link


:thumbdown


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

hughjazz said:


> http://www.sears.ca/product/hitachi-16-gauge-manual-floor-nailer/609-000885392-NT50YF
> 
> Canada
> 
> ...



Sears link just takes ya to their homepage.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> No, that's not what I meant. The government is not setting the price. They are forcing the merchant to charge $15 for a $1 part by taxing it so heavily. It wouldn't matter if the part was 1 or 5 dollars. The tax would be relative.


This statement is so Il-informed its not funny. Its funny American's are quick to stomp on the health care system because it costs so much, when the US spends more of their GDP on health care than Canada does. 

We get hosed because of buying power and middle men. 

Most products I can't buy direct from the US I have to order through a Canadian Agent and pay and extra 30%. A good example is an automation company that will remain nameless, I order product direct from them in SLC, pay american prices, shipping, tax duty etc. Then they decided to increase all prices in Canada only by 15%, but they will cover duty and to return product I ship it to a local shipper instead of SLC. Well the duty was never more than 2%...so effectively Canadians just get hosed.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

sorry about that guys

Hitachi manual flooring nailer


In canada at sears $369

In usa at amazon $169

exact same tool


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

hughjazz said:


> sorry about that guys
> 
> Hitachi manual flooring nailer
> 
> ...


I get 157.49 at amazon:laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TimelessQuality said:


> I get 157.49 at amazon:laughing:


This is AMAZON.CA

List Price: CDN$ 449.00
Price: CDN$ 370.36 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping. Details
You Save: CDN$ 78.64 (18%)

Temporarily out of stock.
Order now and we'll deliver when available. We'll e-mail you with an estimated delivery date as soon as we have more information. Your account will only be charged when we ship the item.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.ca. Gift-wrap available. 

We're not in Kansas anymore :laughing:


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

hughjazz said:


> In usa at amazon $169
> 
> exact same tool





TimelessQuality said:


> I get 157.49 at amazon:laughing:





Inner10 said:


> This is AMAZON.CA
> 
> List Price: CDN$ 449.00
> Price: CDN$ 370.36
> ...


All I did was looked at his links..
.
Just pointing out that the price that Hughjazz got from USA AMAZON was different from KANSAS USA AMAZON..

I know amazon.ca is what you guys have to pay


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> All I did was looked at his links..
> .
> Just pointing out that the price that Hughjazz got from USA AMAZON was different from KANSAS USA AMAZON..
> 
> I know amazon.ca is what you guys have to pay


Yeah that was my point. :laughing:

Hugajazz pointed out that Amazon.com was a fraction of Sears, you showed that its even LESS in Kansas and I showed that Amazon.CA is ever higher than SEARS. :thumbup:

Further proving our point that:


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Good point


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

TimelessQuality said:


> All I did was looked at his links..
> .
> Just pointing out that the price that Hughjazz got from USA AMAZON was different from KANSAS USA AMAZON..
> 
> I know amazon.ca is *what you guys have to pay*


Screw that I don't. I buy my stuff in the U.S.


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## JT Wood (Dec 17, 2007)

Hey I am going to Vegas next monday,


Have you guys ever brought a tool back on the plane?


Like a flooring nailer for instance?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Hey I am going to Vegas next monday,
> 
> 
> Have you guys ever brought a tool back on the plane?
> ...


Not a flooring nailer, but two years in a row I put a free screwdiver I got from CEDIA in my carry on, both times they let it through in the US but both times it was confiscated at Pearson airport when I had to get a connecting flight from Toronto to Ottawa.


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## cairnstone (Oct 26, 2008)

Mountain Top said:


> No, that's not what I meant. The government is not setting the price. They are forcing the merchant to charge $15 for a $1 part by taxing it so heavily. It wouldn't matter if the part was 1 or 5 dollars. The tax would be relative.
> 
> Capitalism would be somebody discovering that a merchant is charging $15 for a $1 part, and then undercutting that price by a dollar, figuring he is still making $13 on that part.
> 
> And so on until it got down to the going rate, which should be $1. If nobody is doing that, then there is either price fixing going on, or it has to sell for $15 because of the tax burden set upon the merchant by the government.


We have way less government influince on pricing here than in the US I believe. For that part it could be a supply and demand thing. Or it could be just plain priced wrong. For many goods we have regional distributers that add there percentage to the cost of goods. This is one of the reason many goods are way more in Canada. Another reason in the past was almost all our goods were imported on a 70% dollar. This has changed now but there are still slow moving goods that have not been repriced.


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## cairnstone (Oct 26, 2008)

I bought some stuff from Cabellas I think it was. They had one Canadian location and a .ca website. My order came from the US and I got nailed with the standard UPS fees for a tune of 50 bucks. Like others have said we get to pay more for everything but we get to call areselves Canadians and don't have to pretend like some people south of us do.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> I bought some stuff from Cabellas I think it was. They had one Canadian location and a .ca website. My order came from the US and I got nailed with the standard UPS fees for a tune of 50 bucks. Like others have said we get to pay more for everything but we get to call areselves Canadians and don't have to pretend like some people south of us do.


Get an account with UPS or a broker, I rarely pay more than 10-15 bucks + tax.


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