# Carpet/Tile transition not under door; need your response



## kinimaka

Please look at the pictures below. I am trying to convince a gc that this is not a correct transition. I have told them it's wrong - the tile should not be seen when the door is closed. Tile was installed first, carpet after.

Please reply with your professional opinion. Thank you. 

- 1st pic is the laundry room, 2nd is the bathroom.


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## loneframer

I am always meticulous about laying everything out to transition at the centerline of the door. When the door is closed, you should not see floor transitions. I never trust any trade to know their business, if I am project manager, I lay out EVERYTHING.:thumbsup:


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## OCRS

Who are you trying to convince?


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## Home Work Pro

The transition should be at the door edge even with the inside of the stop.
Were the carpet and the tile installed at the same time? 
If this is a new carpet job and the tile was already there, then I could understand the carpet installer tucking up to it. 
Same situation with the tile.


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## kinimaka

We're in a dispute with a gc who thinks this is industry/workmanlike standard. We believe it's not from the many remodeled or newly constructed homes we've toured. 

** The tile was installed first, then the carpet. FYI, this was a whole house remodel. 

I don't want to get too sidetracked, just want your thoughts if this is standard for remodel/new construction. Thanks.


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## Home Work Pro

In a partial remodel, I could understand this happening. 
In a complete rehab with new flooring being installed in both locations, this shouldn't be acceptable. The tile installer went too far!


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## OCRS

What are you a consultant of ? You mentioned "we're in dispute...." , who else is the "we" ?


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## kinimaka

"What are you a consultant of ? You mentioned "we're in dispute...." , who else is the "we" ?" - OCRS

Really, are you trying to prove a point or something. This will be my last post regarding OCRS' instigation. Either answer the simple question I provided or move on. I am not here to argue who I am, who we are, or whatever. Does it matter? 

It's quite simple, either look at the pictures or move on.


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## Mike Finley

kinimaka said:


> I am not here to argue who I am, who we are, or whatever. Does it matter?


Yeah it matters, did you read what you agreed to when you joined?

I'm a consultant too, somebody asked me yesterday if the curly fries were good at Arbys. I consulted on them with em so I guess we are peers now. :laughing:

To answer your questions that looks absolutely beautiful to me, perfect in everyway, stupendous, the tile installer and carpet installer deserve a car a partner and a raise.


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## kinimaka

I am a consultant to a family that remodeled. We are in dispute with the contractor. We being my parter and I.

I answered your questions. Can you answer mine about the tile work?

Thanks.


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## kinimaka

Appreciate the sarcasm Finley. Always good to know people can be humorous and not serious all the time.


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## Warren

Sounds like they might need a lawyer. Or do they already have one??


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## Mike Finley

I would find out who installed the door backwards in the rough opening, and sue the crap out of em! Sue em 2 times just to be sure!

Sue em, sue em, sue em!!!!!!!! There's a recession on, squeeze em like a grape!


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## B_E_Const.

It is obvious the manufacture of the door should be sued too, oh not to mention the lumberyard that sold the door.... Am I going to far?


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## OCRS

Mike Finley said:


> I would find out who installed the door backwards in the rough opening, and sue the crap out of em! Sue em 2 times just to be sure!
> 
> Sue em, sue em, sue em!!!!!!!! There's a recession on, squeeze em like a grape!


 :laughing::laughing:


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## scuba

A good consultant will consult all the time. Before, during and after. What happened to the during?

Sounds like you may be a consultant lawyer.


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## SLSTech

Its not the floor layers fault - the doors were not installed properly - everyone knows that the door should split the transition between the 2 rooms

Oh & thats a $300 consultation fee - follow up charge is $450 an hour / min $300 charge

Paypal icon is on my site :thumbsup:


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## kinimaka

I'm actually a loan consultant. The house is my house. I figured I come on here and get honest answers from some contractors since I'm looking to become a consultant from the unfortunate events that happened during our remodel. That's why I joined this forum - I want to hear from the pros on what actually goes on and how to do it right.

My dad is a tile contractor that's been in business for over 25 years. He argued with the gc that it's not standard. Since he's my dad, I don't want to use his expertise since there is a conflict of interest. 

I apologize if some you contractors on here got defensive with my post. I figure a gc who fails building, electrical and plumbing inspections shouldn't be trusted with his word on what is "standard". Which is why I posted the pics and my question. 

Thank you Home Work Pro and loneframer for your quick honest answers. I guess I'll have to accept the other sarcastic remarks since I'm not a contractor and am not educated in that area. Our remodel gone bad is one reason I want to become a consultant. Not saying I am one, just want to become one. I've read many helpful and educating posts here on contractor talk. It's too bad I couldn't get the assistance I was hoping for. Oh well. Cheers.

- it would be naive of me to not expect sarcasm, so commence mr. smart guys, I mean you like to laugh at your own jokes anyway. :laughing:


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## SLSTech

kinimaka said:


> I'm actually a loan consultant. The house is my house. I figured I come on here and get honest answers from some contractors since I'm looking to become a consultant from the unfortunate events that happened during our remodel.
> 
> My dad is a tile contractor that's been in the business for over 25 years. He argued with the gc that it's not standard. Since he's my dad, I don't want to use his expertise since there is a conflict of interest.
> 
> I apologize if some you contractors on here got defensive with my post. I figure a gc who fails building, electrical and plumbing inspections shouldn't be trusted with his word on what what is "standard".
> 
> Thank you Home Work Pro and loneframer for your quick honest answers. I guess I'll just have to accept the other sarcastic remarks since I'm not a contractor and am not educated in that area. Our remodel gone bad is one reason I want to become a consultant. Not saying I am one, just want to become one. I've read many helpful posts one here. It's too bad I couldn't get the assistance I thought I would. Oh well. Cheers.


Ok - why couldn't you have placed that info up top & asked straight up. You were given quite a few chances & you skirted the issue. You can tell when someones trying to sneak something past you in your field correct? Do you think were any diffrent or just not as smart? Honesty is the best medicine

FYI - original quote is shown, not the edited one the HO did while I was typing


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## kinimaka

SLS, I apologize for not being up front from the beginning. That being said, do you think the job is standard? In the end that's all I truly want, an answer to my question. Thanks.


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## SLSTech

kinimaka said:


> SLS, I apologize for not being up front from the beginning. That being said, do you think the job is standard? In the end that's all I truly want, an answer to my question. Thanks.


It should be hidden under the door - now, trying to repair it will be costly & not as good as the original. (i.e. carpet seam in the doorway - not good) If you have tile left over & some carpet remnants that will help if its all gone, now your getting into different batches, etc... 

Are the doors normally opened or closed? With all that being said, as the paying customer - it should be done correctly or an agreed upon deduction should be arrived at. FYI, there is a sister site to this one called diychatroom where many of the pros on here also answer questions. This board is strictly for the pros to unwind & talk shop


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## kinimaka

Got it. I'll put it over there since I don't want to ruffle any feathers. Thanks again.:thumbsup:


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## scuba

You're such a nice guy SLS.

It's almost funny when the honesty comes out.

I have to give this guy some credit for fessing up, most never come back.

Greg


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## jarvis design

It goes to show, Honesty is the best policy!!

And to be honest, your transition should be hidden under the door


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## Floorwizard

The fact is I agree with one of the posts above. If both floors were laid at the same time then it is unacceptable...period.
We all know this.
However if the tile was existing, then it should look the same as before.
If the Tile was laid and the carpet was too short to stretch to the new tile, then the best job was done possible.

It's just a fact that seeing the floor on the opposite side of a door is not standard practice...period.
Only good excuse is that it was unavoidable....

was it unavoidable?


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## kinimaka

It could have been avoided since the tile went in first. We wanted the gc's sub to cut the tile and move it back, problem with that is he started from the back of the room so the tile at the door was already cut short (see pic below), so there would have been around an inch and a half piece when you opened the door.

On another note, thanks fellas for answering my questions. I posted the same topic on DIY chatroom in flooring. (I haven't posted enough to provide the link)

Thanks again!:thumbup:


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## Floorwizard

> It could have been avoided since the tile went in first.


That doesnt quite explain it.

Was the carpet new and installed after the tile?
Was the carpet existing as was longer, but then cut back to fit the tile after the tile was installed?


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## WarnerConstInc.

Looks to me that the tile guy thought the door was going to open the other way, out swing, then it would have been fine.


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## 3rdFloorDesign

Here is the answer:

Transitions should always be hidden under the door. Tile always gets installed first. Even if on the rare occasion where the GC screwed up :whistling, and the carpet goes first then the carpet would be left long and finished off to the tile after the tile is done.

The Tile guy cut his tile too long. 

Solution? Tile guy re cuts his tile, and carpet guy has to add a small seam so the carpet meets the transition.


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## floorinstall

*Tile transition*

The standard is to have the split 1/2 way under the door. You should not see the flooring of one room from the other when the door is shut. You can correct the problem by cutting the tile back with a angle grinder and installing a marble threshold under the door. This would also entail seaming the carpet at the threshold to extend into the doorway.This is defiantly the fault of the tile setter. I do a lot of tile installations before the doors are hung and i always have the G.C. layout which way the doors are to swing and set tile to the required distance to be under the door.


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## M&GConstruction

i agree, install a marble saddle.


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## fixitpete

Two pages of replies. I get the fact that he's not in a trade... that aside, saddle will solve the problem. You could even work the bottom of the saddle so no modifications would be needed to tile or carpet.

Good luck.


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## [email protected]

The problem you have now is, 

1, the tile guy put his tiles too far through the door, this was not picked up by the GC or yourselves or the carpet guy.

2, The carpet guy should have seen this and not finished the carpet as he did, he should have left extra and got the GC/tile guy to recut his tiles.

3, as the GC it is his job to oversee all the work being done, the problem is did the GC arrange/employ both the tile guy & carpet guy or did you contract anyone of them. If you contracted anyone of them then the GC cannot be liable for the actions of people he did employ on site.


Two ways to solve this, 1, cut the tiles back and replace all the carpet in that area (no join near the door) 
2, cut back tile & carpet to equal distance on both sides of the door and fit a extra wide feature transistion strip

I would also suggest if you are planning to become a consultant in flooring/building/reno's you get trade skills & experiance first, know one will treat or respect you as a consultant unless you have spent many years on sitre first


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## Floorwizard

Good points.
I would expect nothing less from a Prosource employee.

CarpetOne reprenting here...


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## Javier559

The tile installer went to far out, its something that should have been caught before the carpet was installed. It is a standard thing to end the tile at the center of the door if he didnt know that i would be worried of what else he didnt know. if you can live with it then leave it if not you can always have the tile installer cut the tile back 2 inches, stone it and then have the carpet installer try to stretch the carpet to it. If he cant stretch he might be able to seam a little piece of carpet to reach the tile. :thumbsup:


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## TopFloor

flooring should meet other flooring at the centerline of the closed door. :turned:


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## jhark123

Since you are in Seattle, I'll offer my services. I.E. cut back tile and bring in a carpet layer to stretch/seam up to the tile


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## Anti-wingnut

Just looking at it, did the door get changed from a pocket door to an in-swing? Maybe the GC didn't tell the tile guy. Or maybe the whole problem is the fault of the home-owner. Maybe their decision was not timely.


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## TimelessQuality

It looks like the stops are f'd up on the door.  (look close)

Could replace the stops/move hinges to move the door out:thumbsup:


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## JungleJoe

what the heck, i'll add my 2 cents too....tile guy went to far,BUT the carpet guy should have seen that and saved a seam right there,because 8 out of 10 times, that being a high traffic area, the seam will come loose befor its time...........Jody


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## FatTire

*Honest opinions?*



SLSTech said:


> Ok - why couldn't you have placed that info up top & asked straight up. You were given quite a few chances & you skirted the issue. You can tell when someones trying to sneak something past you in your field correct? Do you think were any diffrent or just not as smart? Honesty is the best medicine
> 
> FYI - original quote is shown, not the edited one the HO did while I was typing


I randomly came across this thread and I can't believe what I read here. SLSTech offers the snapshot that embodies every homeowner's fear of and distaste for contractors: that his or her "profession opinion" varies depending the person with whom he is speaking. I mean, come on. It's a no brainer. Transitions occur under the centerline of the door. Period. A simple question was asked, and more than one person here based their "profession opinion" on what he or she thought of the person asking the question. That's gross. You're just giving homeowners legitimate reason to continue to be suspicious of contractors. I thought there was some movement away from contractors treating their customers like idiots, but I don't see that here. What I DO see is lots of room for improvement. I look forward to seeing that improvement because I don't like having to continue to get over that burden for every new client I meet - a burden imposed by those who perpetuate this yester-year prejudice.

This forum is supposed to be for pros. We should all act like it.


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## Anti-wingnut

You're simplistically blaming us FatTire, for the guy fishing for answers a "consultant" should know. Furthermore, we still do not know who is to blame. The transition is wrong, but:
1) Did the HO change the swing of the door after floor install?
2) Did the HO change from a pocket door after floor install?
3) Did the flooring guys ask the GC where the transition should be?
4) Did the GC give the wrong answer?
5) Is the GC an idiot?
6) Are the flooring guys idiots

Is this argument with the GC about what is wrong, or who should pay? In my first two scenarios, the HO should pony up. In scenarios 3 - 5, it comes out of the GC's pocket. Number 6, a floor guy pays to fix his screw up.

We don't know, and some of the hostility towards to OP is due to his fishing for an answer.

Weren't AV guys like the total dorks in High School?


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## Longghairr

*Everyone is at Fault*

Everyone involved is at fault. I have been in the trade for over 30 yrs. I always make sure to find out which way a door swings when there is just a raw opening, usually marked on the framework. A pocket door consist of totally different frame work than a swing door. Anyone who is in the know, would know this. I, myself, have seldom seen a bathroom door swing to the outside. Carpet guy should have ran carpet long until problem was solved. Problem with that is ,now days people are hired for cheap and don't want to come back, and really don't care. Bottom line, everyone loses. That's the shame of the construction bussiness now days, no one cares, they just want thier money!!! Even if the GC didn't hire the crews, it;s still his responsibility. That is what he was hired for. So glad I don't work in or around that area of the world.


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## Longghairr

*Just One Question*

My question is? Why is a computer/ a/v tech even in this site. My suggestion to you is, get in the trades for about 30 yrs and then give your opinion on professionalism. I ran the last computer genius out of my office because he didn't have a clue about his own trade, I finally figured it out and fixed the problem myself. We have enough problems right now just finding work. If anyone here is unprofessional, it is you. I don't think this site is set up for DIY people to get info. I might be wrong. I'm in the trade for money, not to tell weekend warriors how to do it!!!


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## Anti-wingnut

Longghairr said:


> Everyone involved is at fault. I have been in the trade for over 30 yrs. I always make sure to find out which way a door swings when there is just a raw opening, usually marked on the framework. A pocket door consist of totally different frame work than a swing door. Anyone who is in the know, would know this. I, myself, have seldom seen a bathroom door swing to the outside. Carpet guy should have ran carpet long until problem was solved. Problem with that is ,now days people are hired for cheap and don't want to come back, and really don't care. Bottom line, everyone loses. That's the shame of the construction bussiness now days, no one cares, they just want thier money!!! Even if the GC didn't hire the crews, it;s still his responsibility. That is what he was hired for. So glad I don't work in or around that area of the world.


You may not believe this Longhair, but I actually agree with this 100%. There had to have been multiple times when this screwup could have been caught and rectified. It was not. A lot of people missed the boat. The trades have a problem, too many people only see their task, and do not see the whole. Some of that is a language barrier, and some of it is due to incomplete training. Too many younger people see construction as a job, and only a job. There still are young people who want to be craftsmen, but they are not encouraged to the degree they should be.

With your knowledge and attitude, you would be a welcome addition up here


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## Longghairr

*Thanks For The Kind Words !!!*

Thank you my friend. I see this everyday. I miss the old school days. Language barrier in Fla has gotten out of hand, but that still is no excuse. It's a shame, for everyone involved, hopefully it gets better. My deal is, If I won't live with it in my house, it is unacceptable!!! That's just me.


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## Longghairr

Anti-wingnut said:


> You may not believe this Longhair, but I actually agree with this 100%. There had to have been multiple times when this screwup could have been caught and rectified. It was not. A lot of people missed the boat. The trades have a problem, too many people only see their task, and do not see the whole. Some of that is a language barrier, and some of it is due to incomplete training. Too many younger people see construction as a job, and only a job. There still are young people who want to be craftsmen, but they are not encouraged to the degree they should be.
> 
> With your knowledge and attitude, you would be a welcome addition up here


Thanks again!!! If the pute/ a/v want's to learn something this weekend, we will be in the Keys. He can drop by for more info on professionalism.


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## Mike Costello

Thank you for that excellent advice mr computer guy


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## loneframer

The project manager is at fault, period. If the GC was managing the project it is his fault. When I am acting as PM, every detail is my responsibility, no matter what. All terminations are marked on every opening. If the tile guys are on site, I will explain all details. If there is a language barrier, I will lay out the tile/flooring myself and oversee them until I feel comfortable walking away. Finishes are everything to a homeowner. They live with them day to day.:thumbsup:


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## Floordude

If there is a language barrier, ICE is called immediately!!
NO illegals on my jobs, period!!! NO way in hell!!!!


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## bobbyacro

FatTire said:


> I randomly came across this thread and I can't believe what I read here. SLSTech offers the snapshot that embodies every homeowner's fear of and distaste for contractors: that his or her "profession opinion" varies depending the person with whom he is speaking. I mean, come on. It's a no brainer. Transitions occur under the centerline of the door. Period. A simple question was asked, and more than one person here based their "profession opinion" on what he or she thought of the person asking the question. That's gross. You're just giving homeowners legitimate reason to continue to be suspicious of contractors. I thought there was some movement away from contractors treating their customers like idiots, but I don't see that here. What I DO see is lots of room for improvement. I look forward to seeing that improvement because I don't like having to continue to get over that burden for every new client I meet - a burden imposed by those who perpetuate this yester-year prejudice.
> 
> This forum is supposed to be for pros. We should all act like it.


How about you take some pictures of the job this consultant has a problem with, walk into a flooring companies place of business and ask them to help you with some free advice. How do you think that would workout? I am new to flooring sales and work for a REAL CONTRACTOR, so im right on the edge of being able to post here, but I respect that these people have put in decades of learning the trade and want to have a place just for pros. You shouldnt come into this forum acting the way you did, treating them like 5 year olds, telling them how to play nice. The directions and rules are clearly laid out, and if "someone" could follow directions this problem would not have happened to begin with.

Im new to flooring sales, I explain this to everyone I attemp to do business with, and for the most part its not a problem because I take my time and make sure I get it right the first time. A home owner pays a consultant to know everything that they dont, making the consultant accountable for problems like this. Also, the only people who deserve second chances after lying are family and close friends, no brownie points for fessing up after it was your only option left to get what you wanted from these people.


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## Longghairr

loneframer said:


> The project manager is at fault, period. If the GC was managing the project it is his fault. When I am acting as PM, every detail is my responsibility, no matter what. All terminations are marked on every opening. If the tile guys are on site, I will explain all details. If there is a language barrier, I will lay out the tile/flooring myself and oversee them until I feel comfortable walking away. Finishes are everything to a homeowner. They live with them day to day.:thumbsup:


You basically repeated my response. Wish you were here in Fla. You could do all the hard work for me, while I sit in my truck!!! We need more PM's like you down here!!! If a Herring Bone pattern, on a 45, is the deal, can I depend on you for the lay out??? Please move to Fla. We need more men like you.


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## [email protected]

Is it possible to lock this post now as the subject has being dealt with and the extra comments are getting out of hand and are becoming pointless.


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## Anti-wingnut

[email protected] said:


> Is it possible to lock this post now as the subject has being dealt with and the extra comments are getting out of hand and are becoming pointless.


I don't think they are, and I do not think the heavy hand of locking is warranted. Ian is not obligated to look at every post


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## J&I_FLOORING

*Not that hard to fix.*



kinimaka said:


> We're in a dispute with a gc who thinks this is industry/workmanlike standard. We believe it's not from the many remodeled or newly constructed homes we've toured.
> 
> ** The tile was installed first, then the carpet. FYI, this was a whole house remodel.
> 
> I don't want to get too sidetracked, just want your thoughts if this is standard for remodel/new construction. Thanks.


 If the tile was set first and it was done by an artisan contractor seperate from the carpet installer then it lays at fault with the tile setter. The tile setter should have known to stop any transition under the door so that it is a hidden transition. Sorry about your experience. The tile setter should have no problem taping and grinding a straight edge under the stop for a cleaner transition. The carpet installer, depending on if he/she installed with a stretcher or kicker may have enough stretch left in the carpet to trans into the tile. If there is not enough stretch an easy fix is to take some rem carpet make a small seam and cut to fit.


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## q&aflooring

who ever put that tile in should either pay for that or offer a discount to whom evers site it was the caprpet guys are cool they just cut to it theres no fixing that good luck my guy!


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## q&aflooring

ok sorry yes you can fix it im sure there is enough pull in the carpet left but you cant just pull from the doorway for if you do soon or later you will have a buckle in the carpet you have to pull the whole wall up toward the door or even reset the whole peice then cut your tile UNDER the door


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## Kent Whitten

q&aflooring said:


> who ever put that tile in should either pay for that or offer a discount to whom evers site it was the caprpet guys are cool they just cut to it theres no fixing that good luck my guy!


Thread is a little old, but I'll debate with you.

Tile guy screwed up, but his liability is only to cut to under the door, that's all. Pay for nothing, discount nothing...only fix, which is 5 or 10 minutes with a grinder.

Whoever gave the carpet guy (GC/Supe/HO) the go ahead is the one responsible for the major fix.


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## bwalley

kinimaka said:


> I'm actually a loan consultant. The house is my house. I figured I come on here and get honest answers from some contractors since I'm looking to become a consultant from the unfortunate events that happened during our remodel. That's why I joined this forum - I want to hear from the pros on what actually goes on and how to do it right.
> 
> My dad is a tile contractor that's been in business for over 25 years. He argued with the gc that it's not standard. Since he's my dad, I don't want to use his expertise since there is a conflict of interest.
> 
> I apologize if some you contractors on here got defensive with my post. *I figure a gc who fails building, electrical and plumbing inspections shouldn't be trusted with his word on what is "standard". Which is why I posted the pics and my question. *
> 
> Thank you Home Work Pro and loneframer for your quick honest answers. I guess I'll have to accept the other sarcastic remarks since I'm not a contractor and am not educated in that area. Our remodel gone bad is one reason I want to become a consultant. Not saying I am one, just want to become one. I've read many helpful and educating posts here on contractor talk. It's too bad I couldn't get the assistance I was hoping for. Oh well. Cheers.
> 
> - it would be naive of me to not expect sarcasm, so commence mr. smart guys, I mean you like to laugh at your own jokes anyway. :laughing:


A General Contractor subs out electrical and plumbing so it is hard to hold that against the GC, what did he fail on the builiding?

As far as what is standard, there is no set in stone standard, it can be done the way he did it, but when I do a remodel transitions end up under the door, but that is my personal preference, if it was important to you that the transitions be installed a certain way, it should have been on the plans, the specs or in the contract.

As far as assistance, you aren't going to get help from contractors to go bash another contractor on a issue of personal preferance.

How are you going to become a consultant when you don't have any experience?


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## Danz

Have you ever watched hgtv? I think you're supposed to use 3 in thick doors. just kidding, don't wanna hurt any feelings. But seriously what do youthink is standard practice? Maybe yo can go to home depot and buy some beautiful floor to floor transition seems...


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## kevjob

he is back, back, back, back, back, gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:clap:


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## Danz

Don't you watch hgtv? You're supposed to use 3in doors. Just kidding! Don't wanna hurt any feelings! booohoo! Seriously, what do you think is standard? Hey maybe you can go to home depot and buy some beautiful transition seems and have a pro contracor install them. You can do it we, Can help!


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## Danz

loneframer said:


> The project manager is at fault, period. If the GC was managing the project it is his fault. When I am acting as PM, every detail is my responsibility, no matter what. All terminations are marked on every opening. If the tile guys are on site, I will explain all details. If there is a language barrier, I will lay out the tile/flooring myself and oversee them until I feel comfortable walking away. Finishes are everything to a homeowner. They live with them day to day.:thumbsup:


 Right on! A GC & or PM. should have it together or every one suffers...


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