# Tile over Tile?



## ak_aiken (Oct 30, 2007)

I have a situation where a designer wants me to install new tile over existing tile, which I have never done and don't feel really comfortable with. From the surface the existing tile appears to have been installed well. All of the tiles are glazed, they are setting pretty flat and in plane with each other, no cracked tiles or grout lines, and has been installed for about 10 years. As for existing substrate the previous tile setter installed directly over the plywood subfloor which measures approximately 11/16" thick and is installed on 16" centers, (I have never installed over plywood myself having allways used hardiboard). Would any of you who are more experienced with installing over plywood feel comfortable with this situation? 

My gut feeling of course is to tear it out, but in trying to keep the homeowner and designers happy I was considering checking out products from Laticrete and Ardex to see if one of their reps were to approve the installation using all of their products, thus giving there complete system warranty. Any help or suggestions is appreciated.

Thanks 
Adam


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

ak_aiken said:


> I have a situation where a designer wants me to install new tile over existing tile, which I have never done and don't feel really comfortable with. From the surface the existing tile appears to have been installed well. All of the tiles are glazed, they are setting pretty flat and in plane with each other, no cracked tiles or grout lines, and has been installed for about 10 years. As for existing substrate the previous tile setter installed directly over the plywood subfloor which measures approximately 11/16" thick and is installed on 16" centers, (I have never installed over plywood myself having allways used hardiboard). Would any of you who are more experienced with installing over plywood feel comfortable with this situation?
> 
> My gut feeling of course is to tear it out, but in trying to keep the homeowner and designers happy I was considering checking out products from Laticrete and Ardex to see if one of their reps were to approve the installation using all of their products, thus giving there complete system warranty. Any help or suggestions is appreciated.
> 
> ...


Dont do it


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

i have had this situation in the past, there are products that will do the job, 99% of my tile or stone jobs are mud jobs, that being said, if a customer wants this done, and are assuming the risks, one of which is the original tile floor letting go, then go for it


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Customer is GOD!... Grant their wish BUT sign a contract clearly stated "you are NOT responsible for ... etc." on those customer's instructions, risk assumption & unrealistic tile settings, etc... to cover your ass. Take money, perform work, and run! (who care!?)


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

SelfContract said:


> Customer is GOD!... Grant their wish BUT sign a contract clearly stated "you are NOT responsible for ... etc." on those customer's instructions, risk assumption & unrealistic tile settings, etc... to cover your ass. Take money, perform work, and run! (who care!?)


The customer didn't demand that the new tile be set over old, it was the designer. He/she is probably trying to be a hero and get the job done on the customer's budget. I'm gonna guess that the customer just wants a tile floor that will last a lifetime. 

At the very least, you should explain that the existing floor was set on an inadequate substrate and adding tile to that won't help matters.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

That's not such good advice. Here's a post from Bill Vincent that sums up why that is a BAD idea:



Bill_Vincent said:


> Just walk. We had a conversation about this over to John B's last year. I said the same thing you did-- get it in writing. Dave Gobis, who provides expert witness in legal cases told us that's even worse than ignoring the problem, because by getting something signed off, it's clear proof that you, as the professional are aware that you're doing something that's not going to stand up to industry standards, and most judges, if it gets legal, will throw the book at you.
> 
> Your only choice--
> 
> Walk away.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Yes agree, if there are ALREADY similar court cases won, then I say --WALK!! (Note: If the designer want it, then designer SIGN/aware any agreement with HOs, NOT you!)


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## Norrrrrrrrrrrrm (Jan 20, 2007)

Would it be out of the question to get a jackhammer drill and bust the old tile up? If it is over plywood it should not be too hard with the right tools. Depending on size I would think around $500 bucks to do the demo.If they are hiring a designer, I think they can afford to the job correctly!


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## ak_aiken (Oct 30, 2007)

The more that I think about the situation, I keep coming back to the fact that I would never have done the project originally the way that it is done. Why would I stick my neck out and install over a floor that I wouldn't have done in that manner to start with. By the time that Labor and the more expensive materails would be used to go over the tile, I don't think that removing and starting over fresh would be that out of line from a price standpoint.

My concern at that point would be if I could get the plywood floor cleen enough to install backer board without creating waves or bumps in the floor.


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## ak_aiken (Oct 30, 2007)

Well I heard back from both Ardex and Laticrete and the answer from both of them was not to go over the existing situation, no surprise. I have explained the situation to the designer and am now waiting to see if the homeowner will agree to the additional demolition costs or not. We'll see.


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## Dareksons (Jan 6, 2013)

I'd rather not install tile on top another for warranty sake. However, I did it once, long time ago (I'm talking 12 years ago or so) and the floor is still there in very good shape. I had a chance to look at it recently when I was called for something else by the same customer. If you use quality mortar and pour some latex on the existing tile, it should last a good while. 
www.darekandsons.com


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