# Employees Accepting Work Co. is Bidding On



## mgams (Jul 26, 2005)

Wanted to get your thoughts. Work has been slow. Here is the situation. Employee “A” has an acquaintance that asks him if he could do a little work on his house. The employee looks at the work and tells the home owner it is too much work for him to handle and that the owner should go through the company. I, the owner, go look at the project and tell the home owner I will get back to him with a quote. Meanwhile, the home owner contacts employee “A”, and asks if he can give him a quote to start demolition. Without my knowledge, he complies, involves a second employee (B) and they begin working on the project I'm bidding on. By the way, the client gave me a twelve page scope of work outline which included the demolition.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Do you have any non compete clauses with your employees while employed by you? Are they doing it on their own time with their own tools?


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## stombaugh85 (Jul 23, 2012)

Get rid of them! If their going behind your back now they always will. Next they will be using your tools, materials, gas, ect. They have no loyalty or respect for you, then return the favor! :bangin: :hang: :no:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tough one. Maybe they were unclear of the situation? 

Normally, id say if a hand did side work around my back (never has happened) Id tell them to kick rocks

But, in this case, the guy brought you the lead. Id probably explain your stance on the situation and move on.

To be clear, I dont have a problem with my crew doing side work, I did when I was a carpenter working for others. Ill even lend tools from time to time. But I never took any work my boss would be interested in. 

I dont care what work my guys do after hours, but not for my clients or any other conflict of interest.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

An employer does not own an employee, especially if he is to slow to even give a quote for the entire job. This forced the potential client to look for someone to do a small part of the bigger job he refused.

Employee A should probably be get paid for referrals if the the company can respond quickly to leads with a quote and performance.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

mgams said:


> I, the owner, go look at the project and tell the home owner I will get back to him with a quote.


Guess it really depends on how long was the delay in providing the quote. If there was a long enough delay and you aren't keeping your crew busy can you blame them for trying to make a little money to take care of their own. You also did say they knew the HO and they sent the lead to you. 

After all if they are your guys they at least know how you like to do demos, or at least I would hope so, therefore you won't walk into any surprises after they finish should you get the job.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

concretemasonry said:


> An employer does not own an employee, especially if he is to slow to even give a quote for the entire job. This forced the potential client to look for someone to do a small part of the bigger job he refused.
> 
> Employee A should probably be get paid for referrals if the the company can respond quickly to leads with a quote and performance.


I agree 100%, an employer doesn't own an employee. 

And an employee doesnt own his job.:whistling If my policy is to not do side work, and they do, they are gone. Or any other infraction.

It happens to be that I dont have a problem with guys making some scratch working on their own time. I probably wouldnt work for someone who did.

My one issue with side work has been one guy who worked for a hack contractor on the weekends. I explained my issue with it, and that if he wanted to work for me he wouldnt be working for the hack. He said he understood, and complied. I hooked him up with a landlord buddy of mine. He makes more money for less time, and even had to buy an insurance policy, which I feel is important.


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## BTM Contracting (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't mind if my guys do work on the side, I did before I started BTM. As long as their side work doesn't affect me or my business, why should I care what they do? I don't own them. In your case, your man brought this to you and didn't have to. He should be rewarded for his initial loyalty, doing the demo? Hell I would have been gratuitous of that too!


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm in the same boat as Jaws and the others, if the guys want to get some extra income on the side... no problem, I too would and have lent tools for that purpose.

But you are in a grey area here. 

I'd sit down with your guys and figure it all out. If your quote took to long then it's your loss.


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## mgams (Jul 26, 2005)

It is a gray area. I do reward my employees a finders fee(% of the total job). I looked at the job on Wed. and they started on Thurs.


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## QCCI (Jan 28, 2013)

It can be a gray area, just have to let them know where you stand. I'm a firm believer that communication is paramount!

I personally don't mind some of my key guys doing side jobs, I think everyone does it. Hell I even give them one once in a while, if its something I don't want to mess with. It just can't interfere with their normal job. They usually rent a bobcat or concrete forms from me anyways, and pay me cash!! Lol so that's cool


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

If an employee did this to me, I couldn't see how this would be wrong due to the fact that this is technically his gig and his customer. He would be unofficially "subbing" it out to me with his referral. Had he simply taken on this job himself, I would have been none the wiser. 

Although for liability purposes I would have advised him that he should have taken on the entire job himself or let me have the entire job instead. This is a situation that can get a little sticky because the HO may decide to hold me liable for something that my employee did outside of the scope of my contract with the HO. 

e.g. He does the demo and inadvertently damages the plumbing in the process. Nobody knows that a pipe was damaged until the new work is done and the pipes are tested. Then it begs the question- did the pipe get damaged by my company or my employee's company? And to put a bigger wrench into the works, let's say that after we start doing the new construction and we find something that needs more demo work in order for us to do our work, who does the HO rightfully hold liable?


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## mgams (Jul 26, 2005)

tedanderson said:


> If an employee did this to me, I couldn't see how this would be wrong due to the fact that this is technically his gig and his customer. He would be unofficially "subbing" it out to me with his referral. Had he simply taken on this job himself, I would have been none the wiser.
> 
> I am licensed and insured. My employees are not.
> 
> ...


Very good point!


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## thezoo (Sep 13, 2008)

Surprised that employee A didn't touch base with you on the demo since he brought the work in. A simple phone call "hey, they want me to start demo, does $1500 sound right? Is it ok for us to do this?"


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## mgams (Jul 26, 2005)

I am too! Just don't understand the tought process. Maybe there wasn"t one.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't suppose I have a problem with what your employee did. He brought the customer into the picture in the first place. But you know your employee better than I do.


The customer OTOH would not get any more of my time.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

mgams said:


> I am too! Just don't understand the tought process. Maybe there wasn"t one.


Some people think very differently. 

Employees vs employers are a great example.

How slow are you and for how long now? I know how an empty wallet might change my thought process as an employee :whistling


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## country_huck (Dec 2, 2009)

mgams said:


> I am too! Just don't understand the tought process. Maybe there wasn"t one.


This probably most likely what's going on. 

Or the potential customer is playing both sides and again employee didn't use his though process


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## joethepainter (Dec 1, 2012)

mgams said:


> they begin working on the project I'm bidding on.


Gone.

I wouldn't turn in the bid either, at this point.

I am ok with guys doing side work, but it needs to be exactly that. On the side, on their own time, with their own tools, not interfering with MY work.


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## true north54 (Feb 4, 2013)

I had a boss awhile back that was dead set against any employee doing any side work. I understood to a point. But I seen him fire guys for working on an aunts deck. It got to be ridiculous. I moved on and move 180 miles away from where he was located. ( also my hometown ) I would go back once a month or so and see friend , family etc. I ended helping my best friend hang siding on one of his rental homes that my previous employer bid on. ( which I didn't know he did) my old boss got out of his truck and threw a fit. 
He later had a attorney get in contact with me about breaching his non compete contract that I signed. I told the attorney that I wasn't competing if I did it for free. Which was the truth. The attorney agreed and it was the end of that. I just couldn't believe the lengths this guy would go. He was a nut!! I understand not wanting guys working against him, but I no longer worked for him.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

tedanderson said:


> If an employee did this to me, I couldn't see how this would be wrong due to the fact that this is technically his gig and his customer. He would be unofficially "subbing" it out to me with his referral. Had he simply taken on this job himself, I would have been none the wiser.
> 
> Although for liability purposes I would have advised him that he should have taken on the entire job himself or let me have the entire job instead. This is a situation that can get a little sticky because the HO may decide to hold me liable for something that my employee did outside of the scope of my contract with the HO.
> 
> e.g. He does the demo and inadvertently damages the plumbing in the process. Nobody knows that a pipe was damaged until the new work is done and the pipes are tested. Then it begs the question- did the pipe get damaged by my company or my employee's company? And to put a bigger wrench into the works, let's say that after we start doing the new construction and we find something that needs more demo work in order for us to do our work, who does the HO rightfully hold liable?


I would think all of this would need to be handled in contract wording. Better yet it had better be handled in the contract. Also I would add any tasks/monies necessary to deem the demo complete and resulted in no damage to anything that is to be covered up during construction.


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

It really all depends on your relationship with your employee. I am a partner in a 2 man outfit so I haven't run into this situation personally, but we have a good relationship and I trust his work 100%. 

It's great he brought you the lead, especially because you said it's slow for you. As far as his thought process, I'm sure he thought since he brought you the lead he was doing the right thing, and when the HO contacted him again to do demo he thought he could grab some extra $$ before your company got a go on the project. 

What if your company doesn't get the bid? How big of a deal is the demo work at that point? Then it just comes down to an employee doing some side work you said you're ok with. 

It's all about communication in this situation. If you've had this talk with him before then it's a serious violation of your work policy. If not, have the talk and move on. 

As far as liability for his demo work coming back to you, I would make that clear in the updated contract. If he is going to do side work, he has to back it up and be held accountable if / when something goes wrong.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

true north54 said:


> I told the attorney that I wasn't competing if I did it for free. Which was the truth.


It's also non-compete if the HO seeks you out for work.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

mgams said:


> Wanted to get your thoughts. Work has been slow. Here is the situation. Employee “A” has an acquaintance that asks him if he could do a little work on his house. The employee looks at the work and tells the home owner it is too much work for him to handle and that the owner should go through the company. I, the owner, go look at the project and tell the home owner I will get back to him with a quote. Meanwhile, the home owner contacts employee “A”, and asks if he can give him a quote to start demolition. Without my knowledge, he complies, involves a second employee (B) and they begin working on the project I'm bidding on. By the way, the client gave me a twelve page scope of work outline which included the demolition.


 You should be talking to your employee about this, not some guys on the internet. Everyone's situation is different, and I wouldn't look for advice on here, but thats the way I handle things.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

It seems your question is less about side work in general than it is about this specific situation, yes?

Seems to me what you need is a conversation with your employee. I'm not at all clear that you have been clear with him what your preferences/needs are in this situation.

This may well be him not knowing the hows and whys of how you want/need to handle a situation like this, just talk to him.

To all those saying kick him to the curb; I have zero tolerance for an employee poaching my clients but this is clearly not the case here. I have zero problem with an employee getting side work *from their own leads*, BUT this employee brought *his* lead to his employer, so what are you all on about?

Talk to the employee about how to structure a split job, liability, timing, client interaction, etc, and both of you get on the same page and get that money off the table.


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## windygorge (Dec 6, 2012)

Sounds like the homeowner really never had intentions of contracting out anyways. He was agreeing with your employee to let you look at the place. But already had his mind made up and Then hired them anyways. Hope it works out for you beyond the wretched demo.


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

sounds to me like the guy was looking for a cheaper job or something to start with, thats why he went to your employee and not a licensed and insured company.
I never had a problem with employees doing side work as long as they dont come to work all tired out, and dont do any work behind my back on any of my customer's homes. even tho this customer came to him first.
I would still consider it going behind your back since you are bidding on the job. he should have at least given you a heads up about doing the demo.
I've lent my employees tools to do side jobs.. but as i said. i catch you once stealing work from me. you're gone!


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