# Tile over hardwood floors



## JerseyJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I removed some tile which was installed over 1/4" plywood which was nailed only to hardwood floors. This area is very small at front door entry.i removed 1/4" ply as well. I plan to install tile in the same location. I relize removing hardwood would be the proper way but given the small area I think removing it would be more trouble. I'm thinking of gluing 1/4" hardie backer to hardwood before tiling. I usaully follow manufacture recommendations by using thi set but in this case thinking of using premium pl or no glue. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

JerseyJ said:


> I removed some tile which was installed over 1/4" plywood which was nailed only to hardwood floors. This area is very small at front door entry.i removed 1/4" ply as well. I plan to install tile in the same location. I relize removing hardwood would be the proper way but given the small area I think removing it would be more trouble. I'm thinking of gluing 1/4" hardie backer to hardwood before tiling. I usaully follow manufacture recommendations by using thi set but in this case thinking of using premium pl or no glue. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks



I will tell you how we did it at the tile shop I worked for. We'd staple flooring grade 1/4" or 3/8" plywood to the hardwood. Staples don't split the hardwood as much as nails. Be sure the staple doesn't go through the hardwood. Also, the hardwood can't be coming apart or peaked. Then we'd use keralastic/kerabond to set.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

I would pull it out. A few thoughts that come to my mind are that hardwood floors tend to move a lot, and they also start to come up as the move because of the way they are nailed.

Both of those are not anything I'd want under a tile assembly I put together.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

JerseyJ said:


> Any recommendations would be appreciated.


I recommend you get someone who knows how to properly install tile before you turn it into a sh*t show.:blink:
Ps...never repeat what you posted to a real tile installer.:no:


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Evan1968 said:


> I recommend you get someone who knows how to properly install tile before you turn it into a sh*t show.:blink:
> Ps...never repeat what you posted to a real tile installer.:no:


Meh. I've done similar in little vestibules, and I'm not losing sleep over it. I might put some Kerdi or Ditra down, but if it's a little 3x4 entryway without obvious reasons to expect movement, what's the fear? Especially if it's a small tile.

Heck, if it's a mosaic, you could probably trowel Bostik's best right on the hardwood and just lay the tile on top, and that **** show would probably last for 100 years.

Or do it Olzo's way.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

The ply or Hardi needs many screws/nails to hold and keep its tightness to "sound hardwood, thin set is for voids, however you want to prevent voids with a material that is non compressible is your choice.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Isnt the plywood skin just a bonding sheet at this point? I would thing you can sand off the poly and lay Ditra to float better. But Im not a journeyed tiler.

I do have a customer that has 16x16 tile over hardwood floor through kitchen and hallway. Nothing but a straight bond, I think I didnt do it but I can see the transitions. I dont see any cracks and its at least 12 yrs old.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

very few hardwood floors dont sqeak over time somewhere. Squeeking=movement.. somewhere.

You could run so me subfloor screws down over the joists and lock down the floor before you put down a layer.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Since when is cutting out a 25sf area of mechanically fastened hardwood a difficult job?? I could do my layout and cut that area out to full tile perfection, that would flush out perfect as well, in less than an hour. If that's not worth your time then you either are out of your depth, or didn't bid the job right. One hour of time takes it from looking like a handyman did it to looking like a professional floor man did it. Hell, I'd give that hour away to keep from putting my name on a turd..


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## JerseyJ (Jun 24, 2014)

Some of you guys crack me up. It ends up I'm taking the hardwood out and picture framing the oak. I will add 1/2" cement board and tile which will now be flush. My client has small a small budget which was why I was considering cutting a couple corners prior to my final dissuasion.


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## JerseyJ (Jun 24, 2014)

I also have to fein tool cut oak around stairs which were set on top of oak. It's not A quick one hour job but client is willing to go a little extra. Thanks for your replies. Some of you should be full time critics instead of tradesmen giving advice. Lol! What ever makes you happy


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

JerseyJ said:


> I relize removing hardwood would be the proper way but given the small area I think removing it would be more trouble. I'm thinking of gluing 1/4" hardie backer to hardwood before tiling. I usaully follow manufacture recommendations by using thi set but in this case thinking of using premium pl or no glue.


Read this again. These are your words. You know you're thinking of doing it wrong and you want people who take pride in their work and are professionals to tell you it's OK. Sorry - this ain't the everybody gets a trophy forum. You asked I responded. Then after the fact you change up your story and whine about criticism. Good luck with that.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

JerseyJ said:


> cutting a couple corners


What you were going to do doesn't even fall into that category. It was completely wrong from the start.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't like cement board, for floors, or walls actually. I would have used hardiboard, then a liquid or sheet membrane. What's under the hardwood?

I guess they are all concerned about the hardwood cupping which causes vertical movement, loss of bond, cracking, all the bad stuff.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> I don't like cement board, for floors, or walls actually. I would have used hardiboard, then a liquid or sheet membrane. What's under the hardwood?
> 
> I guess they are all concerned about the hardwood cupping which causes vertical movement, loss of bond, cracking, all the bad stuff.



Also that vertical movement then gives air pockets and lack of support for the tile.

Gluing the backer down is a particularly bad idea.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

I attended a NTCA trade talk at a local supplier yesterday. I asked him your question.

He took out his NTCA guide book and here's what it said, *Direct bond* is unacceptable to hardwood or strip flooring. It further states that if you overlay the hardwood with a thick mudbed that it would be ok. 

I mentioned to him how we did it at the tile shop I worked at. He stated that sometimes it works and sometimes not. What level of risk are you comfortable with?

You did the tearout of existing floor. Was it cracked or grout missing? If it looked good perhaps that installation method wasn't bad for that floor. For future reference, how did it look?


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I was going to ask the same about previous floor.

I briefly looked at the 2015 handbook and didn't really find anything about existing floors, was curious about sheet vinyl as well.

So the workshop, was Gerald Sloan and Mike Whistler there? Was it Dal-Tile sponsored? I wanted to go to one in Orlando, but work prevailed. Any Freebies to entice showing up?


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Mike W. was the speaker at The Tile Shop near me. I've seen Gerald at other events. They are both experienced and knowledgeable. I did walk away learning some new things. And TTS did a great food spread as well.:thumbsup:

They raffled off some products at the end of the talk. I got 40 sqft of Permat underlayment to try. Other products were Sun Touch floor warming mat, Noble value membrane, (3x) Back Butter Buddy, (2x) 10 bags of Tile Shop thinset and an additional 40sqft Permat.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

Very cool, gotta love the support from that company, locally round here nuthin. They are So out of the loop.


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## Evan1968 (Dec 5, 2010)

Tile Shop brand thinset you say? Might as well be a bag of sand.


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