# many questions for a young and hungry contractor



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Little backround before hand. My father has been a jack of all trades as far as i can rember. Some of this work ive been around all my life. With a general contractor now. I know enough to get by BUT still need to learn alot. I take alot of pride in my work and still get excited everytime i see something awesome come out of my hard work

Here we go
1) do you need a gasket on the bottom plate for steel studs on concrete??

2) whats the best way to do a vally on a roof. Ive seen several but still a little timid to try it on my own.

3) after laying heardy board do you really need to take the joints or can you get away with it without. Yes joints are tight all around

4)door frameing 2 inches bigger all around or smaller?? Same for windows

5)paper faced insulation. Stapled to the face of the studs or the sides.

Im sure i will think of more


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Carpenter eyes said:


> 3) after laying heardy board do you really need to take the joints or can you get away with it without. Yes joints are tight all around


Are you talking about Hardie Board for floors or walls as underlayment for tile?


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

angus242 said:


> Are you talking about Hardie Board for floors or walls as underlayment for tile?


Both. What is used for what


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## BurdetteTrim (Jul 15, 2011)

4)door frameing 2 inches bigger all around or smaller?? Same for windows

As a rule of thumb you want to add two inches to the slab size of the door, not the slab and jamb. If is is a 3-0 door (36") you will want your rough framing to be 38" wide. The header height depends on whether it is a 6-8, 7-0, 8-0, etc. door, but 2" over is standard for height as well.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

The questions you are asking are very basic. I applaud your enthusiasm and wherewithal to ask questions. However, there are some things that need to be taught more than some internet Q&A before you become a contractor is a particular trade.

If you are not certain what CBU is used in what application, you need to do a lot more reading before moving forward. Get your mits on a publication called the TCNA Handbook. It will give you every method you will need to install tile in various applications. 

Furthermore, perhaps focus on one trade at a time as that will help slow the information overload you will be confronted with all of these questions you have.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

I no the basics of a little bit of everything. I want to make sure i do everything the right way. Any info on books or general advice is welcome.


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## 4 seasons (Jan 4, 2010)

You may want to think about some continuing education. You can only learn so much through the Internet or a book. Hands on is the way to go!
As far as valleys go, there are multitude of ways to do it that are acceptable. It depends on the shingle- 3 tab, architect, or a thick premium shingle that should have an open copper valley. Please elaborate.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

4 seasons said:


> You may want to think about some continuing education. You can only learn so much through the Internet or a book. Hands on is the way to go!
> As far as valleys go, there are multitude of ways to do it that are acceptable. It depends on the shingle- 3 tab, architect, or a thick premium shingle that should have an open copper valley. Please elaborate.


I do work with a general contractor for a living. Helper some jobs othet jobs more responsibility. Roofing wise we do arc shingles


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

I advocate trade schooling and continuing education. As for you dads experience. Great. However unless you are going to hire him full time relying on his experience as your experience is moot.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

JustaFramer said:


> I advocate trade schooling and continuing education. As for you dads experience. Great. However unless you are going to hire him full time relying on his experience as your experience is moot.


I dont rely on his experence but he has taught me a ton


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Carpenter eyes said:


> I dont rely on his experence but he has taught me a ton


So has my Dad and Grandfathers. However I don't start a sentence with that. That is telling of someones inexperience. Just so you know in the past when I came here to ask questions. I was confronted with hire a pro. So I went and took classes. So now I don't try to answer any questions like this. Only direct one on the right path. Unless you are my apprentice. The internet is full of people that are full themselves and sh!t. 

Cheers.:thumbsup:


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## BurdetteTrim (Jul 15, 2011)

Well said, and good advice Justaframer:thumbup:


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

I understand. This is why im adking questions though so i can be a real contractor when i grow up haha. As far as my personal experence goes about 2 years with my company. Learned alot from my co workers. Woudnt be where i am now with out them watching me mess up every now and then


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

Maybe some spelling lessons too.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

schaefercs said:


> Maybe some spelling lessons too.


Never my strong point. Ill be honest


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## 4 seasons (Jan 4, 2010)

Google "Certainteed master shingle applicators manual"
That manual will tell you how to shingle pretty much anything. Once again though hands on is the way to learn, books can just smooth out the wrinkles.
Good luck brother


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

if you get a job and your not sure you have enough experience to do it , hire someone on good money and do it with them and learn


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

2) whats the best way to do a valley on a roof. Ive seen several but still a little timid to try it on my own.

For shingles, the best way is either closed cut, or open with kynar coated aluminum W metal. Avoid california cut, and california open valleys.

Some guys use copper, but asphalt cement eats it, and you've got to use copper nails or it will corrode.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Dude you need to stick with being on the tools as an employee with someone, probably for a few years. Trade schooling would do nothing but good as well.

Focus in one area, do it really well, then learn other stuff. IE learn how to frame, or drywall and insulation, then learn how to do backerboard for tile. If you try and go out on your own and do "everything" at once, by learning on the net.. while you will learn a lot, you don't want to "learn" on peoples homes. 

Stick with a GC where you will get the variety of experience you want. You can't learn everything overnight, and you never stop learning this stuff, I find. It's good to learn from different people too, the reality is that some people have better practices than others.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

edit


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## Master Mechanic (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree with BC. Find a niche that you like in the trade, find a good Contractor to work for and have him teach you to the point he can give you a punch list and you can complete the list with out much issue.

I would say 4-6 years of working for a Contractor will give you enough experience that you can start small projects on your own. 

Ps- spell check is your friend.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

I see what you are looking for...basic info...not the long lessons that most people on here are giving you...

so let me help you out a bit. 

No you do not need a gasket on the bottom of metal track...sometimes you will see it on framing detail on a set of drawings...but it is not necessary. And, when it is shown on a detail it is usually shown for sound attenuation purposes (use that term a lot...i did when i was learning...sounds great - "sound attenuation"). What i will do, however, is put a 3 or 4 foot bead of adhesive under any track that has a door on it. 

proper way to do a valley (and don't forget the "e" in valley next time) - thats way to broad of a questions. there are plenty of proper ways and only some fit certain applications. Be a little more specific and I will help you out. 

No you don't have to tape the joints on hardy bb when installing TILE. I defy any person to come out and said they had a problem with a tile install only because the substrate wasn't taped at the seams. Is it good practice to tape the seams...I would say yes. 

framing doors...when doing this use your head. If your framing is spot on then I would say the rough should be 3/8" wider than the combined jamb leg thickness. in other words if the jamb material is 1/2" then I frame it 1 3/8" larger. 1/2" x 2 = 1' plus the 3/8". so I frame a 32" wide door at 33 3/8". I find that if you frame it at 34" it is overkill and you are shimming the sh%t out of it. 

lastly, the paper faced insulation...you can really go either way with this. Butttttt, I like to staple it to the face because the screws from the drywall will go through the paper and help hold the insulation in place. 

Just my two cents. if you have any more questions then by all means ask me. 

I am a firm believer in that for some people schooling is not the answer. Try. try again. 

When I started out I had the advantage of being taught all of the major skilled trades by some of the best union workers in NYC. It was a luxury I was afforded by my father. The best bit of advice i ever received was simple and said time and time again...THINK! Every single move you make in construction is going to effect either your prior move or your next move (think about that statement). Plan things out in your head...And for every project you do, buy a 99 cent marble notebook and keep a journal on it...write everything down. EVERYTHING. 

Good Luck.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> I see what you are looking for...basic info...not the long lessons that most people on here are giving you...
> 
> so let me help you out a bit.
> 
> ...



Way to help somebody to fck someone's house.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

O thanks pal. Sorry for trying to get some answers


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

one last thing...the first house I ever built is in White Haven. Just saw that you are from Scranton.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> one last thing...the first house I ever built is in White Haven. Just saw that you are from Scranton.


Are you originally from White Haven? I'm a (part-time) river guide on the Lehigh.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

TheItalian204 said:


> Way to help somebody to fck someone's house.


nooooo...to help him ruin someone's home would be to offer him no help at all. i wouldn't recommend that he start underpinning someones home or remove any structural support from it. To me he seems like a kid that is hungry to learn. What is wrong with educating???


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Carpenter eyes said:


> O thanks pal. Sorry for trying to get some answers


I like that you seem like a real go getter. However, have you thought about the things you don't know? I assume you are an honest upstanding person. That means you will warranty your work..Right? So my question is how will you warranty a roof when you don't know how to cut a valley, the valley leaks, ruins the ceiling, all the furniture, carpet, subfloor, and oh it was a two storey so x2. Even if you are an honest upstanding person how do you afford it when you are just starting out? I doubt your insuranse will cover it ,,,Because you arent qualified. If you care about your customers educate yourself in the right way to do things. By educate I mean hands on experience. Just my 2 cents


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Carpenter eyes said:


> O thanks pal. Sorry for trying to get some answers


Listen let me tell you a small story.

My father always wanted me to play football in NFL...ever since I was 6 he would be sending me to all sorts of prep camps and etc but it was not meant to be because I am only 5' 11" and I had no access to better football education like kids in States did.

So i got into soccer. I played till I was 19 and almost signed professional contract playing for Fiorentina FC (in Calcio A)...I had talent and worked hard just at some point some of my very close people adviced me not to.

Till today I am biting my nails that I did not do what I wanted to...Should ve,would ve,could ve...

I worked with/watched my relatives on masonry jobs since I was kid but not every one gets this luxury...so when I went to get my ticket it was easier for me than for average Joe.(hint: i am talking about advantage of experience,even if not on tools). I will still stick like a leach by guy with 30 years of experience to show me new tricks and new ways. Never stopped learning.

Listen,where I am taking this...I am not trying to put you down. But when I did not know something so elementary I would try to find information rather than ask somebody because I would get laughed on.

I am not trying to put you down,I am trying to tell you that if you dont have the drive to research you dont have drive to succeed. I still mess up myself sometimes(mainly because english is not my first language so I get smacked in the face with OSB being called particle board and vice versa) but I would never ask a questions like those on CT talk.

You will recieve similar type of response from pretty much anybody here. Its not enough to just ask several questions,you need hands on experience. 5-6 years of of it if you want to be GC,do a little bit of everything.

Wise man said once: "more I know more I realise I know nothing"

Sure I could answer to your questions but wouldnt that be easy life?(not like answers are not available on internet). I bet you did not even care enough to check old threads around here. I would be taking away your drive to learn on your own. And if you dont have that you won't succeed.

I hope you get what I am saying.
Good luck to you.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> I like that you seem like a real go getter. However, have you thought about the things you don't know? I assume you are an honest upstanding person. That means you will warranty your work..Right? So my question is how will you warranty a roof when you don't know how to cut a valley, the valley leaks, ruins the ceiling, all the furniture, carpet, subfloor, and oh it was a two storey so x2. Even if you are an honest upstanding person how do you afford it when you are just starting out? I doubt your insuranse will cover it ,,,Because you arent qualified. If you care about your customers educate yourself in the right way to do things. By educate I mean hands on experience. Just my 2 cents


Ive done roofs, just not valleys. Usually a more skilled guy does that. Ive saw him do it several ways. No idea why he does it each way. As for my work, i do stand behind it 100%. If i make a mistake i am man enough to admit it and fix it


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> Are you originally from White Haven? I'm a (part-time) river guide on the Lehigh.


Born and Raised in Brooklyn NY. Spent all of my summers at my parents house in Penn Lake...The Lehigh kicked my butt many times when i was younger...lollll. I now take my kids to the house for fun and relaxation. 

My dad was born in Brooklyn too and spent his summers as a kid up at the lake.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Carpenter eyes said:


> Ive done roofs, just not valleys. Usually a more skilled guy does that. Ive saw him do it several ways. No idea why he does it each way. As for my work, i do stand behind it 100%. If i make a mistake i am man enough to admit it and fix it


I believe you. But my question is do you have the insurance to back you up for all the trades you mentioned? Again I'm assuming but I doubt you have several hundred thousand laying around to spend if you f*** up a roof. Again it's not just the roof but the contents...Sure you can admit you messed up and fix the roof...what about the rest?


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

i agree with some of the posts that followed my original response. but again, I am assuming that you are level headed enough to bite off only what you can chew. 

Start small and grow...and ASK QUESTIONS...that is how you gain knowledge. Ask them here...ask them on the job. Just don't be one of those people that asks the same question 20 times...that will get me annoyed and get you sent out for coffee numerous times during the day.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> I believe you. But my question is do you have the insurance to back you up for all the trades you mentioned? Again I'm assuming but I doubt you have several hundred thousand laying around to spend if you f*** up a roof. Again it's not just the roof but the contents...Sure you can admit you messed up and fix the roof...what about the rest?


Give the kid a break...When was the last time you saw a kid like this take on a job that had the potential downfall of "several hundred grand" for leaks in the valley of a roof. Getting a little too ridiculous no?

I could do a valley with empty PBR cans and not cause several hundred thousands of dollars in damage.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Im takeing on decent sized jobs. Nothing to crazy though. I dont have the skills or bank to move up yet.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> Give the kid a break...When was the last time you saw a kid like this take on a job that had the potential downfall of "several hundred grand" for leaks in the valley of a roof. Getting a little too ridiculous no?


John(If you dont mind me calling you that),are you serious?!

Leak roof (INCLUDING from valley) can result in potentially damaged 

a)Shingles(because improperly installed)
b)Framing,sheeting,insulation(IN ATTIC)
C)Framing,Sheetrock and inner insulation
D)Electrical
E)Mold Remediation
F)cosmetical(taping,painting)
G)Warped hardwood,laminate,cracked tile etc.

Is that not 200k worth of renovations?!


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

TheItalian204 said:


> John(If you dont mind me calling you that),are you serious?!
> 
> Leak roof (INCLUDING from valley) can result in potentially damaged
> 
> ...


It really depends on the house and how long the leak goes undetected.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> Give the kid a break...When was the last time you saw a kid like this take on a job that had the potential downfall of "several hundred grand" for leaks in the valley of a roof. Getting a little too ridiculous no?
> 
> I could do a valley with empty PBR cans and not cause several hundred thousands of dollars in damage.


really? How? What kind of houses do you work on? Here is my thinking. Roof/sheathing..Insulation..Ceiling/ drywall/ paint...contents...what about the baby grand that happens to get water damage?...Flooring/ subfloor..Another ceiling... Another floor. More contents...And ya think HO's won't try to get every penny they can? Ok maybe only 50 thousand.. I doubt it but ok... Does he got it? I doubt it.. And without experience I doubt he has the insurance to cover it. Am I Still ridiculous?


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> It really depends on the house and how long the leak goes undetected.


Obviously,but arent we looking at bigger picture?

Look what I am trying to say,is that installing valleys for roofers is like installing masonry wire for masons.

If you dont know how to do it,means you are not ready to be on your own yet.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> It really depends on the house and how long the leak goes undetected.


Thank you Dan.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

summithomeinc said:


> really? How? What kind of houses do you work on? Here is my thinking. Roof/sheathing..Insulation..Ceiling/ drywall/ paint...contents...what about the baby grand that happens to get water damage?...Flooring/ subfloor..Another ceiling... Another floor. More contents...And ya think HO's won't try to get every penny they can? Ok maybe only 50 thousand.. I doubt it but ok... Does he got it? I doubt it.. And without experience I doubt he has the insurance to cover it. Am I Still ridiculous?


I beat you to it

And obv insurance is not going to cover unlicensed guy who does not know what he is doing.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Carpenter eyes said:


> . I dont have the skills or bank to move up yet.


My point exactly.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TheItalian204 said:


> I beat you to it
> 
> And obv insurance is not going to cover unlicensed guy who does not know what he is doing.


I type slow..lol


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Carpenter Eyes, please don't be turned off by some of the negative guys here. There is a wealth of information you can learn on this site.

You guys should back off a bit. He is working for a GC. Read. He's looking to expand his knowledge. That's a good thing.

I suppose you guys were born with the knowledge you have, right ?

Carpenter Eyes - I'll answer any direct question you have. My knowledge and the things I've learned over 40 yrs. are not mine to keep, but should be passed on.

You'll do fine. :thumbup:


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

This is a ridiculous thread. Can we please close this and move on to the next waste of time...there is a ton of useful information and some really great questions on this site. Let's put some effort into threads that matter.

My thought process being this doesn't sound like a person asking serious questions.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

TheItalian204 said:


> John(If you dont mind me calling you that),are you serious?!
> 
> Leak roof (INCLUDING from valley) can result in potentially damaged
> 
> ...



John is fine thank you. 

My Grandfather owned the largest roofing company in NYC for over 40 years...was going on roofs until 3 days before he died. I started roofing for him in the summer when I was fifteen. I was given a truck...with a column stick shift...and a bunch of material and told where to go. I learned as i went a long. That "way" isn't accepted anymore, I understand that, but again, we have a kid that is aspiring to better himself in the very same line of work that we have made a life doing. I am all for helping him out.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

At this moment I think this is a valuable thread. Some guys here are killing the whole point of this site.

It is about young guys trying to learn more. I for one am willing to teach rather than just bash someone to boost their own ego.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Alwaysconfusd11 said:


> This is a ridiculous thread. Can we please close this and move on to the next waste of time...there is a ton of useful information and some really great questions on this site. Let's put some effort into threads that matter.


I think all questions are good questions and it's not a waste of time. Just simply trying to say I don't think the OP understands his liability.If I have come off as rude I do apologize. However I firmly believe a person has a responsibility to their customers. To know how to do the job they are doing and to warranty it if it fails.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

katoman said:


> At this moment I think this is a valuable thread. Some guys here are killing the whole point of this site.
> 
> It is about young guys trying to learn more. I for one am willing to teach rather than just bash someone to boost their own ego.


Kato I dont agree with you. I left him a whole post full of my life experiences.

I did not try to bash him and I did not recieve either positive or negative response on what I wrote from him,mainly because I think kid might have an ego problems.
I was not trying to bust his balls(as a matter of fact you know I am not that type of guy).

I was trying to give him an advice. He might be nice guy,he might be the guy who wants to learn...but he is also the guy who said this about his GC.:



Carpenter eyes said:


> I dont rely on his experence but he has taught me a ton



My verdict is this kid might think he knows it all..I was like that...until they made me lift some buckets of mud up n down the ladder whole day at +30 C


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

I am not bashing anyone. I'm young and almost completely self taught. I have asked a lot of questions on here, some of which I am sure were elementary for a lot on here.

I just find it odd that some threads get shut down immediately and some go on like this, even though they both scream DIY or a joke. 

I guess I'm just cynical and with this being the Internet and all...


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> John is fine thank you.
> 
> My Grandfather owned the largest roofing company in NYC for over 40 years...was going on roofs until 3 days before he died. I started roofing for him in the summer when I was fifteen. I was given a truck...with a column stick shift...and a bunch of material and told where to go. I learned as i went a long. That "way" isn't accepted anymore, I understand that, but again, we have a kid that is aspiring to better himself in the very same line of work that we have made a life doing. I am all for helping him out.


sir,power to you.

Me and you come from families with trades background.

But even if I did not come from that type of family,I would first go to library and research before I would ask.

No,that was not my ego,that my drive.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> really? How? What kind of houses do you work on? Here is my thinking. Roof/sheathing..Insulation..Ceiling/ drywall/ paint...contents...what about the baby grand that happens to get water damage?...Flooring/ subfloor..Another ceiling... Another floor. More contents...And ya think HO's won't try to get every penny they can? Ok maybe only 50 thousand.. I doubt it but ok... Does he got it? I doubt it.. And without experience I doubt he has the insurance to cover it. Am I Still ridiculous?


Are you guys serious? I see that the kid lives in Scranton Pa. He is looking for some simple info...some tricks to the trade. In my life I have probably failed as much as I have succeeded but my successes are due in part to help from others. 

Furthermore, I would NEVER hire a contractor that actually believed that (before appropriate action) two hundred thousand dollars worth of damage could be caused from a leaky valley.

To cause that kind of damage you would have to leave the sheeting off of the roof during a nor'easter.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> Are you guys serious? I see that the kid lives in Scranton Pa. He is looking for some simple info...some tricks to the trade. In my life I have probably failed as much as I have succeeded but my successes are due in part to help from others.
> 
> Furthermore, I would NEVER hire a contractor that actually believed that (before appropriate action) two hundred thousand dollars worth of damage could be caused from a leaky valley.
> 
> To cause that kind of damage you would have to leave the sheeting off of the roof during a nor'easter.


No,we might not be serious about that,but you have to agree that possibly taking on side gig without common knowledge of installation of valleys is *ridiculous*


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

i agree with katoman 100%. It is not only the fact that you offer up good information and helpful hints. It is also the manner in which you do it. Thumping your own chest while telling the kid cease and desist is not entirely helpful. 

One again, to the OP...any questions you have should be brought to the attention of this forum. Sift through the responses and use the better answers to better yourself.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> Are you guys serious? I see that the kid lives in Scranton Pa. He is looking for some simple info...some tricks to the trade. In my life I have probably failed as much as I have succeeded but my successes are due in part to help from others.
> 
> Furthermore, I would NEVER hire a contractor that actually believed that (before appropriate action) two hundred thousand dollars worth of damage could be caused from a leaky valley.
> 
> To cause that kind of damage you would have to leave the sheeting off of the roof during a nor'easter.


I think maybe I have used the wrong example to get my point across... To the OP .. Please consider your liability and how you will cover that liability. It is a HUGE part of being in business.I really meant no disrespect with my posts and I hope you didn't take it that way. So how would you take care of a leak if it caused damage to more than just the roof? for example ceiling, wall, carpet? My point is are you prepared for these things. Not to be rude. But because these are things I have dealt with and I wish someone would have pointed out these things to me.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

TheItalian204 said:


> No,we might not be serious about that,but you have to agree that possibly taking on side gig without common knowledge of installation of valleys is *ridiculous*


you said it best yourself..."a side gig."

something to put some extra coin in his pocket. Like I said earlier in this thread...I doubt he is going to be undertaking projects that are going to put anyone in harms way...If I am wrong then I am sorry.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

the funniest thing of allllllll????????

All of this talk and still no one has given the kid a sure fire way to do valley's....LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

I also apologize if I came across abrupt...heres link to what I meant by my initial post to the OP...
I am done talking about this and if you think that asking bunch of strangers questions like he asked is easier than typing in 4 words to get 1.900.000 results then I must be having a bad day and should not be getting involved into debates.

*Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings.*


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> the funniest thing of allllllll????????
> 
> All of this talk and still no one has given the kid a sure fire way to do valley's....LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL


why didn't you?


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> why didn't you?


I will now...but I originally started in here to help the kid against a bunch of people who were taking him to task for asking questions.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TheItalian204 said:


> I propose renaming the site to DIY2.com.
> 
> Kid's stories do not add up,he has no respect for his own GC,he has no desire to learn,yet you are eager to answer all his questions.
> 
> ...


Please tell me how he disrespected his boss or showed no appreciation?


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> Please tell me how he disrespected his boss or showed no appreciation?


Saying he does not rely on his boss' experience...

I may be wrong about him, I really dont care, but I have seen his kind...his kind just cost me 3000$ on customer's house thats neglecting fact how much do ppl like him cost me in a long run by underbidding my prices.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TheItalian204 said:


> Saying he does not rely on his boss' experience...
> 
> I may be wrong about him, I really dont care, but I have seen his kind...his kind just cost me 3000$ on customer's house thats neglecting fact how much do ppl like him cost me in a long run by underbidding my prices.


 Just a hungry kid looking for some info, imo


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

yeah reading the original post he doesn't say anything about bidding jobs tomorrow. Not sure why I had that idea as well- anyways, nothing wrong with asking questions.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Holy blow up from a few questions. I seem to have caused a roit here. Like i said, small to medium jobs that im 100% sure i can handle. Never said anything about doing massive jobs. You guys showed me for asking questions.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Carpenter eyes said:


> Holy blow up from a few questions. I seem to have caused a roit here. Like i said, small to medium jobs that im 100% sure i can handle. Never said anything about doing massive jobs. You guys showed me for asking questions.


 If you don't mind me asking, what jobs do you believe you are ready to handle on your own? As side jobs?


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

If you are doing even small jobs for people-You may want to look into liability insurance, even if its doing some painting and baseboard-you never know when s&it happens, for your own good. You'd need to register a company first (sole proprietor is fine for small stuff, one man show)

You can have this for part time moonlighting stuff too, costs about 50 bucks a month probably for what you'll do..worth it IMO

edit-That is for around here anyways, don't know what you need for in terms of a license in your area, if it's required for smaller stuff. This is stuff that would be good to look into.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

I can handle drywall, mud tape, some trim, minor frameing, tile, pergo install, really general handyman things

I will admit im horriable at plumbing and electrical. Also havnt really had the hands on time yet


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Im not looking to take over my town one house at a time. Just lookin to do a bangin job and pay the bills


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I agree with what BC says. Just don't take on anything you don't feel you can handle. It takes time. Keep learning from where you're working.


Ya, it can get a little heated here sometimes. But good guys here, we'll help you as best we can. :thumbsup:


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

ok, so you are looking to bid jobs then..well just don't get over your head, and don't end up being a "I work for cash" handyman, for various reasons..

anyways feel free to ask questions on stuff you are curious about..


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Carpenter eyes said:


> I can handle drywall, mud tape, some trim, minor frameing, tile, pergo install, really general handyman things
> 
> *I will admit im horriable at plumbing and electrical*. Also havnt really had the hands on time yet


Then please don't try and get better at it on an unsuspecting customer.


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## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

katoman said:


> I agree with what BC says. Just don't take on anything you don't feel you can handle. It takes time. Keep learning from where you're working.
> 
> Ya, it can get a little heated here sometimes. But good guys here, we'll help you as best we can. :thumbsup:


Always.

Im not to worried, they call it think skin for a reason :thumbs up:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

JumboJack said:


> Then please don't try and get better at it on an unsuspecting customer.


Where is the fun in that?


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

JumboJack said:


> Then please don't try and get better at it on an unsuspecting customer.


Correct, always tell the HO before hand that you don't have a clue as to what you're doing. :laughing:


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

katoman said:


> Correct, always tell the HO before hand that you don't have a clue as to what you're doing. :laughing:


preferably *before* you get the job :laughing:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

TheItalian204 said:


> preferably *before* you get the job :laughing:


*NO* When you're half way through it. That way it's hard for them to fire you. :whistling


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Tile being general handyman thing really cracked me..I wonder what angus has to say about this.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

katoman said:


> *NO* When you're half way through it. That way it's hard for them to fire you. :whistling


Lol I politely disagree,that way its *easier* to get fired *without pay :laughing:*


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

katoman said:


> *NO* When you're half way through it. That way it's hard for them to fire you. :whistling



Yes, they will start to worry when you make a 4th trip to the supply store...in two hours


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

never once said he shouldn't be a contractor. Said he probably needs a bit more experience before going out on his own, judging by the questions he was asking and the wide range ofthem. Whether he likes to hear it or not, this will do nothing but be a positive when he goes out on his own-for him and the folks who he does work for. This is advice for him, not bullying or anything else.

I was told the same thing when I was younger (by my father), and eager to be a handy guy doing jobs for people. It probably saved me a LOT of headaches, and opened my eyes to how much i did not know.

The other side of this too is that the OP is asking all trade questions as to what it takes to be a contractor. We can help him to showing him there is a lot more to it than just the work itself, starting with liability, contracts, warranties, bookkeeping, ESTIMATING-Big one that the better you are the easier your business will be,etc.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

BC Carpenter said:


> never once said he shouldn't be a contractor. Said he probably needs a bit more experience before going out on his own, judging by the questions he was asking and the wide range ofthem. Whether he likes to hear it or not, this will do nothing but be a positive when he goes out on his own-for him and the folks who he does work for. This is advice for him, not bullying or anything else.
> 
> I was told the same thing when I was younger (by my father), and eager to be a handy guy doing jobs for people. It probably saved me a LOT of headaches, and opened my eyes to how much i did not know.
> 
> The other side of this two is that the OP is asking all trade questions as to what it takes to be a contractor. We can help him to showing him there is a lot more to it than just the work itself, starting with liability, contracts, warranties, etc.



BC thanks a lot for this post.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> i have a brilliant question for you...and this is totally off topic of what the op was looking to gain from starting this post....buttttt, what were you doing in construction at age 10? No really, what were you doing as a construction worker at the age of ten??? I am dying to know


 Not to throw it in your face, but I checked on an addition we are building this morning. The masons 12 year old son was shoveling sand into wheel barrows for his dad and uncle. No he is not an illegal. Maybe yall are just soft in New York. Lots of middle school kids helping playing gopher/laborer for their dads during the summers and on an occasional Saturday, down here.That masons kid will provably start linebacker as a sophomore for the varsity 
because he will be stronger and tougher than his contemporaries.


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## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

jawtrs said:


> Not to throw it in your face, but I checked on an addition we are building this morning. The masons 12 year old son was shoveling sand into wheel barrows for his dad and uncle. No he is not an illegal. Maybe yall are just soft in New York. Lots of middle school kids helping playing gopher/laborer for their dads during the summers and on an occasional Saturday, down here.That masons kid will provably start linebacker as a sophomore for the varsity
> because he will be stronger and tougher than his contemporaries. I did.


Come on...now you are going to start throwing stones??? I have been to the great state of Texas a few times...actually got stuck in Houston for a few days on a return trip from Cabo San Lucas. Had a great time.

Last time I was down in Texas my trip started out at my place in Myrtle Beach SC playing some golf (i Suck) with some buddies. One of the guys that we got paired with was from Texas Auto Direct in Stafford. We got to some laughing and drinking and lo and behold...We were all on the same plane back to Texas and I was making a deal on a new F350 King Ranch Diesel. My wife was pi$$ed about me going to Myrtle...just think of how she was was I returned a day and a half late with a new truck...lolllllllllll. By the way, I paid almost 12k less for the truck in Texas than I would have at any dealer within two hundred miles of NYC. My wife just doesn't understand that. 

I am not sure if you are a parent or not...but wouldn't you agree that there is a large leap developmentally between the ages of 10 and 12??? 

And as for the varsity football team...I can't h ave at it with you there...Texas def has NY beat in HS and College football. No arguments there.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> Come on...now you are going to start throwing stones??? I have been to the great state of Texas a few times...actually got stuck in Houston for a few days on a return trip from Cabo San Lucas. Had a great time.
> 
> Last time I was down in Texas my trip started out at my place in Myrtle Beach SC playing some golf (i Suck) with some buddies. One of the guys that we got paired with was from Texas Auto Direct in Stafford. We got to some laughing and drinking and lo and behold...We were all on the same plane back to Texas and I was making a deal on a new F350 King Ranch Diesel. My wife was pi$$ed about me going to Myrtle...just think of how she was was I returned a day and a half late with a new truck...lolllllllllll. By the way, I paid almost 12k less for the truck in Texas than I would have at any dealer within two hundred miles of NYC. My wife just doesn't understand that.
> 
> ...



My daughter is two.

Like I said, I didn't mean to portray a 10 year old swinging a pick like a scene out of Cool Hand Luke. I was picking up trash and digging a hole here or there. Didn't take an interest until 8th grade probably, when one of my dads carpenters said something about making 18$ an hour.  I thought that was a fortune.

Even my fiirst summer working 4 days a week, 13 years old, he didn't ride me hard and my duties were pretty light. The next year it was 5 10s, and he pushed me pretty hard, worked my ass off every day, or else a foreman did. He asked if I wanted to work with his concrete sub or apprentice with one of his top guys. I chose carpentry because it looked easier. :no: Still dug a lot of holes and packed lumber over the next 4 summers. If my next kid is a boy, I will push for a different line of work but will have him on my sites during the summers in school. Builds a lot of character and self confidence.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> Come on...now you are going to start throwing stones??? I have been to the great state of Texas a few times...actually got stuck in Houston for a few days on a return trip from Cabo San Lucas. Had a great time.
> 
> Last time I was down in Texas my trip started out at my place in Myrtle Beach SC playing some golf (i Suck) with some buddies. One of the guys that we got paired with was from Texas Auto Direct in Stafford. We got to some laughing and drinking and lo and behold...We were all on the same plane back to Texas and I was making a deal on a new F350 King Ranch Diesel. My wife was pi$$ed about me going to Myrtle...just think of how she was was I returned a day and a half late with a new truck...lolllllllllll. By the way, I paid almost 12k less for the truck in Texas than I would have at any dealer within two hundred miles of NYC. My wife just doesn't understand that.
> 
> ...



I bet that salesman told everyone he sold a pick up on vacation. Lol.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> I am just going to say my final peace and then walk away from this thread...i will take all my lumps from those who do not agree with what i have to say.
> 
> I think that it is ridiculous that in a forum that is supposed to be comprised of "professional contractors" that are looking to share each others' experiences in order to educate and inform, i would see so much disdain over a member posting in an attempt to garner some basic knowledge that he would put to use in his every day line of work.
> 
> ...


+5000. Did he even get all the answers he originally asked? Really good job boosting confidence and being someone to actually help and look up to. Pat yourself on the back. 

#1: No, you do not need a gasket. 

#2: Whatever you need to do to make sure water doesn't penetrate. Don't forget your valley flashing. Other than that, I'm no roofer and can't really help. But there were good responses here if you can find them. 

#3: Short answer is yes. When in doubt, consult manufactures literature. Most products have installation instructions. You can learn a lot by reading. And the best part is that it is free. 

#4: 2 inches over the size of your door slab on the width. It will be 2 - 1/2 inches taller. The extra half inch allows for the door gap at the bottom. This is important because sometimes floors aren't completely level. It also serves as a space for air to move more freely in and out. 

#5: Don't waste your time and money stapling. You can push that between joists on a ceiling and it won't fall down. It's definitely fine for walls. Staple only problem spots. Most builders only insulate exterior walls. In that application, your paper should not be seen from the inside. You should be looking at the actual insulation. That paper acts as a vapor barrier (Don't want that insulation wet) and it is extremely combustible. You want that covered up by your exterior skin.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

#5: Don't waste your time and money stapling. You can push that between joists on a ceiling and it won't fall down. It's definitely fine for walls. Staple only problem spots. Most builders only insulate exterior walls. In that application, your paper should not be seen from the inside. You should be looking at the actual insulation. That paper acts as a vapor barrier (Don't want that insulation wet) and it is extremely combustible. You want that covered up by your exterior skin.

The paper goes toward the inside of the house. (At least according to owens corning) And I'd staple it too. I'd like to know it will stay where I put it.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> #5: Don't waste your time and money stapling. You can push that between joists on a ceiling and it won't fall down. It's definitely fine for walls. Staple only problem spots. Most builders only insulate exterior walls. In that application, your paper should not be seen from the inside. You should be looking at the actual insulation. That paper acts as a vapor barrier (Don't want that insulation wet) and it is extremely combustible. You want that covered up by your exterior skin.
> 
> The paper goes toward the inside of the house. (At least according to owens corning) And I'd staple it too. I'd like to know it will stay where I put it.


I agree

every application i've seen it's paper facing the inside. Think of a vapour barrier (poly) goes over the insulation. Vapour barrier is not to prevent "wet insulation" it is there for vapour control, IE heat loss, etc.

The height of a door over the flooring will be determined by the doorframe it is hung in, a common solution for higher flooring is cutting the door.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> The paper goes toward the inside of the house. (At least according to owens corning) And I'd staple it too. I'd like to know it will stay where I put it.


See...I told you there is good information here. You're right. Just don't staple to the face of the stud...staple the inside. If the wall is being covered up by drywall, it doesn't really matter which side has the paper. It's easier to staple with the paper facing you, so keep that in mind. 

On on exposed area like an unfinished basement, garage, or attic, paper should not be seen. If you read the warnings on it, it tells you that you can't leave it exposed. It burns like a SOB. Just put it towards the exterior to be safe. 

My vapor barrier comment is moot. An exterior wall should already have a vapor barrier (green guard, etc). 

This post was meant for the OP. The quote thing might throw you off.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

BC Carpenter said:


> I agree
> 
> every application i've seen it's paper facing the inside. Think of a vapour barrier (poly) goes over the insulation. Vapour barrier is not to prevent "wet insulation" it is there for vapour control, IE heat loss, etc.
> 
> The height of a door over the flooring will be determined by the doorframe it is hung in, a common solution for higher flooring is cutting the door.


Funny story here...I decided to be cheap when it came to replacing all of my interior doors to raised panel. I said to myself, I will just buy the slabs and route all of the doors for the hinges. Leaving the current frames in place. Yea, should have asked someone for an opinion here. 

I ended up having to shave about 1/4 inch off of the width of almost every door, had problems with closing (hinges binding) and many more. Moral of the story, don't be cheap. Buy a pre-hung door and do it right. You'll spend less time and time equals money. 

PS. The doors all look like ***** in my opinion. Most people don't notice, but, I do. Don't ever make that mistake.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> Funny story here...I decided to be cheap when it came to replacing all of my interior doors to raised panel. I said to myself, I will just buy the slabs and route all of the doors for the hinges. Leaving the current frames in place. Yea, should have asked someone for an opinion here.
> 
> I ended up having to shave about 1/4 inch off of the width of almost every door, had problems with closing (hinges binding) and many more. Moral of the story, don't be cheap. Buy a pre-hung door and do it right. You'll spend less time and time equals money.
> 
> PS. The doors all look like ***** in my opinion. Most people don't notice, but, I do. Don't ever make that mistake.


funny, Sounds like my day yesterday installing a slab for a lady. Door had to be cut on the bottom, planed on one edge since the frame was out of whack, another hinge added to the middle since she was going to a solid door, etc etc. By the time all is said and done, it would have been faster to put in a pre-hung, and isn't that much more money-and the whole frame would have been new as well as the door. Easier to install too


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