# Visting Vista



## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

Almost ran into the Fed Ex guy when I pulled in the drive yesterday - my new Dell Inspiron was here (not bad, ordered it Saturday night)

Great 19" wide screen monitor.

Anyway, I'm embarking on giving Vista a fair chance, but yes, I am already biased.

I've been using Win2k, so obviously Vista it is way different and so far,for the most part, intriguing. 

I don't get the folks who complain that they can't find this, that, or the other thing. IT'S A NEW AND UNFAMILIAR OS, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ???!!!???!!!

With all the controversy surrounding it, I thought it may be of interest if I posted my objective observations as I became more familiar and eventually judgemental and subjective. 

First thing that I notice is the pop up permission notices about running or loading something. Is this as annoying as everyone says? Hey, I've been running WinPatrol on my computers for years, same idea. If something unfamilair is trying to load or change settings or invade, I like a notice asking me if this was intended. Security. 

My first order of business will be to repartition the HD. I also want to remove a lot of the stuff I will not be using - AOL, Works, Games, etc. 

Will this involve reformating and starting fresh? I don't know. Does anyone here know? 

There are lots of forums out there I will visit. 

So if you want a running commentary on my Vista Voyage, say something, if I see no replies, I'll realize no interest exists and discontinue.


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## MVH (Jun 24, 2007)

Comment away. I'm using Vista/Office2007. My biggest complaint is Outlook is the slowest/non-responsive email client I have ever used.

Mike


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

MVH said:


> Comment away. I'm using Vista/Office2007. My biggest complaint is Outlook is the slowest/non-responsive email client I have ever used.
> 
> Mike


I'll second that, but I am biased now that I have gone back to XP. Just like MVH says, the response time I found rediculously slow. Not just Outlook, but everything. If I clicked on a folder, it takes more than a few milliseconds to open up. Then I get the hourglass, wait....wait...pop.

Though I don't believe you have much choice going with Dell. I think it's just Vista only and no XP.


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

There are a lot of Microsoft haters out there so it's hard to cut through the crap. The oposite is true with Apple fanboys.

I've been using it since March with no real issues. There are times when it slows down or an application will crash but that's not really a new thing. I think it's better than Windows XP but nothing ground breaking. For those who say it's slow... do you have enough processor power and ram? 

If I was going to buy again I might get a Mac though. The only reason I wouldnt' is that I have a few thousand dollars worth of development software that would suck to loose. But I REALLY like the "spaces" thing on the new OSX 10.5. I used to use a Sun Workstation years back and they had something similar and it makes organizing tasks very nice.


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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

I don't own it but I've done some work setting Vista up on new Dell systems for a few people. It takes longer to get a good configuration than any XP machine I've ever done. 

First off you should download a program called PCDecrapifier from www.pcdecrapifier.com and run that. It's designed for Dell and HP PCs and looks for the junk software commonly installed on them and then gives you the option to remove that software in the easiest way possible. 

I do find the constant request to confirm your actions annoying. The only time I've ever seen it so far is when I already know that I'm the one that took the action. I double click something to install it, it's asks if I'm sure I want to install it, I say yes. Great. What good did that do me? If someone downloads a bogus program and tries to run it, Vista will ask if they want to run it, and they'll say yes again, and...what good did Vista asking really do here? It's a redundant step IMO. It isn't security at all as far as I'm concerned. If the operator is stupid enough to try running a bogus piece of software, this little feature isn't going to do anything to stop them. It's the same thing with all users being standard users by default instead of administrators. Once you learn to right click and choose "run as administrator" that security is out the window as well. I think they had some decent ideas for Vista but failed to implement them very well.

As for speed, yes Vista is really slow. My latest client bought a brand new Dell with the specs I recommended for Vista. He has 2GB RAM, one of the highest speed C2D CPUs available at the time, and a video card to take strain off system resources. Even after unloading all the junk software it comes with Vista takes easily twice if not three times as long to just load up as XP does when similarly configured. Once Vista is loaded it runs a little quicker, for basic movement through the system at least. Start opening a few programs at once and again it slows down considerably. 

I haven't really gotten into it deep enough yet to confirm everything I dislike about it but I can't see this OS being for me. I think it's a transitory step like 98ME was. For all purposes it looks pretty but doesn't really do anything better than XP did.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Vista is a resource hog, you'll want as much RAM as you can get for it or it will be slow to load, I'm told you need at least two gig of RAM.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

Well, I'm now into my third day of Vistaness. As with any OS I like to set up some partitions to organize myself, help with backups, and separate programs, operating system, and data from each other.

My copy of Partition Magic (v 8) don't work with Vista. There is an imbedded disk management utility that is touted favorably on the internet, but it only allows the C drive to be shrunk by a little more than 50%. No nearly enough for me. Also, there is an unlabeled partion with 55 GB that is "EISA Configuration" (for system recovery) that is impossible to rid also. AND, even if I did deleted it, I hear the bootloader needs it. And I can find no mention how to exactly edit it)

SO, if you like to play with the OS, Vista does NOT make it easy. That's the first strike.

My 17 year old son, on the other hand, just got his lap top with Vista. He's just leaving it as is and enjoying all the features like media center, voice recognition, and other toys. 

It appears, that if you want to configure the inner workings to your liking, Vista will give you fits. If you like to truly plug and play, then Vista is for you. It seems to be what we used to call "loser friendly"

I have a strong feeling that many other programs will, like Partition Magic 8.0, not run on Vista. I already know that one needs the latest version of Acronis True Image. Vista will be costing a lot more than the price of the program.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

PC Decrapifier - good for ridding those instalwarez that come with a new box.

also www.lifehacker.com is a great site for computing, organization, and Get Things Done Ideas

I've been Vista for 5 mos. The only problem was my 17" printer no longer worked and HP said no driver update was planned. I guess enough people bitched and they now recommend using drivers for a similar model - all works well.

I still don't trust ANY computer, so I have 3 external HDs and 3 USB sticks that I do redundant back ups of my data using a freeware called Syncback.

mike


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Hey DeArch welcome to the club. 

you're a guinea pig too now. LOL

Since the machine was build for Vista and not an upgrade from XP you should not have any issues. I believe the slowing issues others have mentioned are from upgrading to Vista.


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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

Not of the ones I've done. All of the Vista machines I've worked on have been new Dells built for Vista. If Microsoft decided to let vendors continue selling XP on new machine instead of Vista (they had said that OEMs of XP would be discontinued by now) then you know there must be a great many people unsatisfied with Vista. Time will tell if Vista will shape up or not.


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## MVH (Jun 24, 2007)

Chris Johnson said:


> ...I believe the slowing issues others have mentioned are from upgrading to Vista.


Um, I don't think that is true in my case, quad core, 2.4 GHz, 4 GB ram. Like I said, Outlook is by far the worst for mail syncing and general responsiveness.

Mike


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

same with mine. My computer is higher end than most anything dell sells.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

gideond said:


> If Microsoft decided to let vendors continue selling XP on new machine instead of Vista (they had said that OEMs of XP would be discontinued by now) then you know there must be a great many people unsatisfied with Vista. Time will tell if Vista will shape up or not.


I'm not quite sure what you are saying, gideond, but I agree that if MS is allowing vendors to continue to ship XP on machines, then that indicates there is trouble brewing in Redmond. 

And Dell IS still selling XP machines, nay, they are giving people the choice.

My son said that he's heard rumors that Vista will be abandoned (no, I am not going to automatically believe a 17 year old). So I googled "Vista abandoned". No I did not read anything about M$ orphaning Vista, but there are a HELL of a lot of bad reviews and predictions out there. One person going so far as calling it today's ME. Businesses are not "upgrading". There are many serious problems. XP runs faster. No support for a lot of "legacy" hardware. (My Epson CX6600 all-in-one does not have full functions). Lot of "legacy" software won't run. (Acronis Tru-Image, Partition magic, etc).

All for what ? Apparently the greatest improvement is the pop up permission screens to thwart mal-ware. But if you run XP NOT as an administrator, you won't have problems with mal-ware loading itself. 

Vista has about two strikes against it in my ballgame. I'll throw a few meatballs at it and see if it can bunt out a single. But, this program is starting its season off like the '62 Mets

I'll keep at it, and give it a fair shake. I'll be the sacrificial guinea pig.


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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

Dell had limited the availability of XP to business machines there for a while. Home users could only get Vista. Now all of a sudden MS has allowed PC builders to obtain OEM copies of XP again and Dell is offering XP to home users once more. The only way MS would have done that is if a lot of people were showing some outrage over Vista being forced on them. Hopefully once SP1 hits for Vista it'll fix a lot of issues. I can't see MS abandoning Vista. They've put too much time and money in it for that. I have heard that the next new MS OS is already slated for release in a few years. There isn't much info on that yet but if it's true, Vista will be very short lived. It does indeed have a lot of problems and a business would be foolish to switch over to it at this point. There are too many incompatibilities with exists hardware and software to warrant a change. You could be looking at a whole business overhaul instead of a simple software upgrade. 

I may get a new laptop soon with Vista loaded on it but I'll be dual booting Ubuntu Linux on it too. It'll by my experimental machine.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

*Vista or not?*

I just got 2 new computers from Dell 2 weeks ago. Got XP instead of Vista on both. I paid a little extra for this, but no problem with Dell on getting XP.
I'm not ready to switch over, and if this becomes an issue, I will get a Mac next time. I'm a contractor who uses computers and I dont think I should have to do all this work to update, I think that Microsoft should work for me, not the other way around. Guess I'm naive.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

One big thing I had a major complaint about is that I have 2 Canon printers, nothing wrong with them. The drivers for Vista are non existent and I called Canon directly and the guy said they will not ever release the drivers for my printers on Vista. That was my final strike three right there.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

Well, I think Vista struck out for me tonight. I tried to load Publisher but it would not - said the OS was incorrect version. Yes it was an older version of Publisher - 2002 - but it works fine on win2K and XP

So that's three programs out of six so far that will not load. Acronis True Image, Partition Magic, and now MS Publisher. I have loaded Office XP, MS Streets and Trips, and Paint Shop Pro 7. 

I have a printer that is not fully functional.

This ia an OS that has thrown up roadblocks preventing me from enacting my method of organization.

I have a lot of other programs that I fear will not load - like Quicken, Quickbooks, and Acrobat. But even if they did load, I am dead in the water without Publisher. I do our NGPP Chapter newsletter each month. I wouldn't even THINK of asking for reimbursement from the Chapter for a compatible version.

Yup, shades of Millenium Edition. 

That's the problem with the corporate mindset - "We dug this hole too deep and poured too much money into it to admit we were wrong" If I owned MS stock, I'd think about cashing in a healthy percentage now.


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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

Sadly, sales on Vista have been good enough that MS is unlikely to do anything to address complaints about it. I'd imagine they'll fix major issues as they go but when it comes to compatibility they'll expect everyone to upgrade software to make it work with Vista instead of fixing Vista to work with existing software.


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## daArch (Jun 8, 2007)

gideond said:


> Sadly, sales on Vista have been good enough that MS is unlikely to do anything to address complaints about it. I'd imagine they'll fix major issues as they go but when it comes to compatibility they'll expect everyone to upgrade software to make it work with Vista instead of fixing Vista to work with existing software.


And obviously software manufacturers are not complaining. Planned obsolescence is necessary to keep many industries profitable, this is especially true in the high tech world. 

M$ probably could not maintain a comfortable equalibrium with its existing products, (although one could easily argue that point). But as we know, our system demands that companies GROW, even past an optimum size for efficiency. M$ is just another corporate balloon that doesn't know when to stop expanding.


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## MonsterToys (Oct 25, 2007)

M$ is constantly updating. I've had my Vista since March, and noticed a lot of bugs have been relieved through the updates. However, a lot of my older programs still do not run, which really stinks. From what I've read, most businesses do not need to upgrade hardware just to go to Vista, it's simply not worth it yet. M$ anticipated higher sales of Vista, so who knows what they are planning next. I am happy with Vista despite the issues, but compared to XP, it is not that much of an upgrade.


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