# Silt Sock



## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

Has anyone ever used silt sock. I've been told that it's a good alternative to silt fence & haybales when allowed. I'm bidding a job that will require 1500' silt fence & 1000 haybales which may have to be straw if conservation requires it. 

Opinions?

http://siltsock.net


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## ESSaustin (Mar 27, 2010)

Yeah, they are great and easy to use. Try it!


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

You need to find someone that has a blower truck to blow the compost into the sock. They are easier to install and last longer than silt fence, but costs more.

Here is a local company that we deal with that has a blower truck.

http://www.varsityinc.net/index.html


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

Do you guys have straw wattles around there? We use them quite a bit around here.


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## HUI (Jan 21, 2011)

I personally don't like the socks or wattles. I install a high quality silt fence with a silt fence installer. I have found my fence will last over a year easily. I have been told that people lime the wattles because you can drive over them. This is true but you should be entering and exiting at the construction entrance. I thing the silt fence encourages the use of the proper entrance.


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

I was told it cheaper to get it shipped with compost already blown in than having local guy blow compost in. Doesn't make much sense to me since he gets it shipped from Wisc.

The supposed savings on this job would be the result in not having to use hay/straw bales in addition to silt fence.

Never heard of straw wattles.


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

What do you do with the hay bales? Are you using a wire backed silt fence?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Do any of you guys deal with SWPPP's?


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Are you lining the haybales in a line behind the silt fence ?? The development we did over the summer, we had to place a hay bale behind each stake for support and we also had to drive (2) stakes into the haybales to hold them in place. We never did it and we always just place wood chips on both sides of the silt fence. Something about wood chips that will make inspectors pants wet.

As far as the straw wattles, you can buy them in sections already made up, or if you have a straw blower, you can make them yourself. Not sure about the compost silt socks, they might be heavy to handle. The contractor that we deal with will install 18" silt sock with the blower truck for $9/ft.

Most commercial jobs now are requiring super silt fence.....talk about a PITA !!!


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

griz said:


> Do any of you guys deal with SWPPP's?


That is something that is typically left up to the design engineer. They design a plan to be approved to obtain the NDPES permit. The erosion and sediment control plan will state what bmp's must be installed by the contractor to be in compliance under the NDPES permit.

In my county now, we have to sign a form that adds us onto the NDPES permit as a co-permittee. Now, if there is a fine, both the owner and contractor will be fined. It is more of a double whammy and the county is able to collect twice the money.

One thing that I've learned over the years. Install your bmp's and overkill on them. If you are near a waterway, overkill and overkill it again. You can never have too many bmp's near a waterway.


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

> Posted by SRE
> What do you do with the hay bales? Are you using a wire baked silt fence?


Hay bales have to be lined behind silt fence entrenched in ground 3" with 2 stakes driven thru the bale. Some designers want stake driven thru at an angle so it catches 2 bales. Haven't had to do that yet.

We use regular silt fence. That wire backed silt fence is 5 times the cost of regular silt fence. Won't be long before designers are calling for it.


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

rino1494 said:


> Are you lining the haybales in a line behind the silt fence ?? The development we did over the summer, we had to place a hay bale behind each stake for support and we also had to drive (2) stakes into the haybales to hold them in place. We never did it and we always just place wood chips on both sides of the silt fence. Something about wood chips that will make inspectors pants wet.
> 
> As far as the straw wattles, you can buy them in sections already made up, or if you have a straw blower, you can make them yourself. Not sure about the compost silt socks, they might be heavy to handle. The contractor that we deal with will install 18" silt sock with the blower truck for $9/ft.
> 
> Most commercial jobs now are requiring super silt fence.....talk about a PITA !!!


Do you have to install silt fence/ hay bales before clearing. They usually make us install fence but allow us to install hay after. One conservation comm. didn't understand why I wanted to wait for some clearing before installing bales. I actually asked how they thought I was going to get 500 bales thru a heavy wooded area. Common sense prevailed.

The clearing guy always leaves me piles of chips that we will use to build dams in addition to silt fence in needed areas. IMO, it works better than silt fence or bales.


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

griz said:


> Do any of you guys deal with SWPPP's?


Designer takes care of it. Someone has to weekly inspection of silt fence for failure & fill out report on project. First subdivision I dealt with it I was designated inspector. My weekly inspect report booklet looked like the bible due to the time/size of the project. 

The EPA was called out twice on the project due to pissing contest between town & developer. Spent 2 hrs. with EPA person on site & reviewing my reports. Luckily, I documented every time we repaired silt fence, stakes, etc. 
Showed the guy how we installed mulch dams in addition to silt fence in problem areas.

Developer was told that it was rare not to be fined. We weren't fined. That particular developer has become designated inspector on all projects since then.


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## HUI (Jan 21, 2011)

We don't have much enforcement here in northern Indiana. IMHO straw bales are a waste as is the wire backed fence. If the silt fence is installed properly you don't need either. I have bid some walmarts and they are a pain. In their details they allow either wire backed fence or you can slice the fence in and not use wire.


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## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

HUI said:


> We don't have much enforcement here in northern Indiana. IMHO straw bales are a waste as is the wire backed fence. If the silt fence is installed properly you don't need either. I have bid some walmarts and they are a pain. In their details they allow either wire backed fence or you can slice the fence in and not use wire.




I used to work for a plumber and we did some work for Sams Club (essentially Walmart) and it took over a year to get paid. also a friend of mine just did the landscaping for the brand new Walmart they built here and is still waiting to get paid. he completed the job 2 weeks ahead of schedule and was cleaned up and off site by the end of august. it has now been six months and he is still bugging them for his check. my advice to you is to stay as far away from walmart as possible.


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## S.R.E. (Apr 8, 2010)

Upchuck said:


> Hay bales have to be lined behind silt fence entrenched in ground 3" with 2 stakes driven thru the bale. Some designers want stake driven thru at an angle so it catches 2 bales. Haven't had to do that yet.
> 
> We use regular silt fence. That wire backed silt fence is 5 times the cost of regular silt fence. Won't be long before designers are calling for it.


OK, what is the purpose of the bales?
You might find that the wire backed silt fence will save you money on longer projects because it requires less maintenance. All government jobs require the wire backed silt fence.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

peteo said:


> I used to work for a plumber and we did some work for Sams Club (essentially Walmart) and it took over a year to get paid. also a friend of mine just did the landscaping for the brand new Walmart they built here and is still waiting to get paid. he completed the job 2 weeks ahead of schedule and was cleaned up and off site by the end of august. it has now been six months and he is still bugging them for his check. my advice to you is to stay as far away from walmart as possible.


Everybody that I know that has done a Wal-mart has gotten screwed. There is a developer out of Pittsburg area that buys land, and leases them to wal-mart. One site contractor got screwed out of millions one that he did about 6 yrs ago. Another contractor is a lawsuit against him for over $2 million because he didn't get paid for one that just opened up about 3 months ago. My buddy did the pipework for the place and has a lien against the property because he is owed $240,000. Another wal-mart about 20 away from this one just opened up 2 months ago and my buddy bought all the pipe for it and quit working because he wasn't getting paid. Wal-mart took the pipe and said that it is our property now. 

Peteo, you are from Erie, so this might be the same guy.


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## HUI (Jan 21, 2011)

Yeah walmarts are not good to work for. I was just saying that walmart has found that installing silt fence with a slicing machine is preferred to the wire backed fence. As many of you know walmart was fined millions for their lack of storm water compliance. Because of the fines walmart is a real pain in the neck for their SWPPP


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## ebivremodel (Nov 15, 2010)

Upchuck said:


> Has anyone ever used silt sock. I've been told that it's a good alternative to silt fence & haybales when allowed. I'm bidding a job that will require 1500' silt fence & 1000 haybales which may have to be straw if conservation requires it.
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> http://siltsock.net


 Fine Homebuilding has a small story in the latest news stand issue with tips/suggestions and resources for purchase on a variety of products.


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

S.R.E. said:


> OK, what is the purpose of the bales?
> You might find that the wire backed silt fence will save you money on longer projects because it requires less maintenance. All government jobs require the wire backed silt fence.


It serves various purposes:

1. Additional support to help prevent failure
2. Additional cost that developers love
3. Throwing bales around is a good workout
4. Great way to get all itchy without visiting a hooker


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