# Fire sprinklers required for new homes



## AmeliaP (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm curious. What other states do this and what have been your experiences with it?


_http://www.neagle.com/topstories/x1799247741/Fire-sprinklers-required-for-new-homes_

_Wayne County, Pa. — _
_All new single family dwellings being built after Jan. 1, 2011 are required to have installed an automatic sprinkler system, according to Pennsylvania State law.
According to Don Konkle, executive director of Pennsylvania’s Fire and Emergency Institute and a former fire chief, since the 1980s there have been attempts to put this code into effect. Fire officials determined that most deaths and injuries occur in single family dwellings. In accordance with this information which has been recorded since pre-Revolutionary America.
There is an extra cost in installing a sprinkler system which approximates $1.40 per square foot in a home that has a public water supply and rises to $1.60 to $2.00 per square foot if a home gets its water supply from a well which does not have the facility of pumping out water quickly. Translated, for a 2,000 square foot home, the additional cost for construction would be as much as $4,000.
Local building associations have appealed this decision for several years as the added burden of extra money may deter a new home owner from building.
On Thursday, Jan. 6 members of the Wayne County Builders Association met at Ehrhardt’s to go over the new guidelines in a one day seminar. Approximately 50 builders, designers and architects assembled with materials to better understand and put into effect the new law. On hand was a book entitled “Residential Fire Sprinkler Systems: Design, Installation and Code Administration” put together by the International Code Council. It is an extremely detailed book that addresses many concerns and the whys and how-tos of installing the systems.
The book informs the reader that the reason for the seminar was to provide instruction not available elsewhere. The seminar was a short intensive course that discussed the issues that are the basis of fire sprinkler system design, diagrams, questions that may come up and answers as a follow up to all that attended.
“We have on hand plumbers, builders, designers, and architects,” Joseph Harcum, past president of Wayne County Builders Associated said to The News Eagle.
Kevin Coutts, also a past president said that although everyone assembled was ready and willing to put this code into action, there has been some reaction by the builders because, “we would like to see this be an option, rather than mandatory.”
“A young couple that has to put out a chunk of money on top of the building makes the house more expensive. This is additional money they must put out,” he explained as to why collectively as a group Wayne County Builders would want to see this be a selection of options rather than a mandatory law.
“We want affordable housing for all people. This, sometimes, puts a crimp on the affordability of a newly constructed house,” Harcum said.
“There are only five states besides Pennsylvania which has made this a law,” he said.
One of the problems is that where there is a well or separate water supply, there also has to be a separate tank that pumps the water very quickly for the systems.
“The sprinkler systems run for seven to 10 minutes and go on when the temperature, presumably from a fire, rises to 165 degrees,” he said, informatively.
According to Don Konkle at the Pennsylvania Fire Institute, the systems pump out 26 gallons a minute and are constructed to put out small fires immediately.
Konkle said, “We feel this is a win-win situation for everyone. There is no annual maintenance and only an initial cost.”
It is the current law that smoke alarms must be in most areas of homes. It is very important that batteries are checked periodically, according to Harcum.
Although it is a definite that the cost of building a home will be increased, Pennsylvania State Fire officials mandate that a new home must have this sprinkler system. Existing homes (built before 2011) are not effected by this law.
Pike County Builders Association has scheduled a breakfast workshop for general contractors and others interesting in the new fire sprinkler regulation, Wednesday, Jan. 26. The event is from 9 to 11:30 a.m., at the Hampton Inn, Matamoras. The cost is $10/member and $25/non-member. Reservations are needed. Reply by e-mail at [email protected] or call the office at (570)296-5589.
_


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

This will be a bonanza for equipment manufacturers. 

If you see a lot of lobbyists buying new cars you'll know why.

It seems they are using the public's 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-risk_bias
to make virtually no impact on overall public safety.
http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/pdf/House Fire Deaths.pdf

I make the same argument for AFCIs.

And suppose these sprinklers have a high false alarm rate? 
How often do you want to replace your furniture and appliances and drywall and hardwood floors? 
Four thousand dollars is just the beginning.


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

The last two houses I did before I moved out of Nassau County, NY required fire sprinklers. Don't know all the details because we were just the trim guys, but I do know that on both houses there were major leaks that ruined quite a bit of flooring and sheetrock. 

I think its more of a money maker than anything else.


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

GettingBy said:


> This will be a bonanza for equipment manufacturers.
> 
> If you see a lot of lobbyists buying new cars you'll know why.
> 
> ...



I think they work when the temp. inside reaches a certain level and then go off. Not like a smoke detector.


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## robert c1 (Mar 11, 2007)

Here you go:

http://http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/4d255a870917dbd027170a32100a060d/UserTemplate/69?c=d5d6a70d18501b26e831cd2828e8b7d6&p=1

Why compete for market share when you can just make the government do it for you?
Remind anyone of our friends at the Simpson company....
Our process for these things is absolutely ridiculous.


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## ebivremodel (Nov 15, 2010)

Koetter Woodworking, a local supplier of trim and hardwood mouldings. Has set up a line for fire rated raised panel doors and trim. They are anticipating ne wcode requiring a fire separation between the attached garage and house.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

A similar BC amendment went into effect here in Ontario as well as of April 2010. Most single family dwelling units are exempt however ( I have to check, forgot off the top of my head).

On the one hand it relaxes Fire performance rating requirements of materials/construction techniques, on the other hand...just something else to deal with.

A big win for Insurance companies...that's for sure.

I expect policy rates to be dropping annny time now


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## Aframe (Mar 24, 2008)

Heritage said:


> A big win for Insurance companies...that's for sure.
> 
> I expect policy rates to be dropping annny time now


Don't worry, your rate for Fire/smoke damage will go down but rates for water damage will more than make up for it:thumbsup:


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Just the government sticking its nose where it does not belong. People's freedom to choose it being stripped away little by little. 

The part about it being only the initial cost and no annual maintenance is a joke. It will most likely not be annual but there will be future costs. Pipes, fittings, and sprinkler heads all have failure rates, not to mention poor installations that will happen.

The sprinkler industry has quite a racket going on. Many buildings required to have a sprinkler system have no possible way of burning. I am working on a school addition right now. Roughly a 35,000 sq ft gym addition. The only wood in the place will be the hardwood floor and a few pieces of trim at a few locations. The building is 99% concrete, masonry, glass, and steel. What will burn??? But I'm sure the sprinkler system will cost a pretty penny. For what? So some people can feel safe about their kids school having a sprinkler system? That is an unfounded idea that costs everyone alot of money. Rant over


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## monticellohomes (Mar 19, 2008)

In Missouri all our Home Builder Associations worked hard and succeeded in the state legislature passing a law making it a mandatory option (I have to have a customer sign a paper that shows they were offered the option for a bid if they would like) and outlawing any jurisdiction from enacting the new code standard as mandatory. The last sunsets the end of this year so now again we are trying to get the current situation extended or made permanent. All the HBA's have been gathering copies of the data provided by the customer (the homeowner) and have found that only about 1% have even wanted an estimate. It is a huge added cost that will drive prices up and make it harder for a builder to compete against existing homes...last thing we need when we are in a down market and already competing against foreclosures.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Try getting a 2000 sq ft home sprinklered for 4g...good luck with that. And the ones that have them complain about dripping and leaking heads -all of which are always in the worst of spots.  

Also, some towns in PA require them in remodeling/additions once they reach a certain % of existing home.

The right thing to do IMO is to require builders to offer the system and/or let the customer decide if it's right. Same feeling toward RRP. 

Oh well, let me get back to the herd:bangin:


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## Cairncross (Nov 16, 2010)

It's required on SFD over 5000 s/f here.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

It really doesn't make much sense to me.
Since smoke alarms should alert the occupants
when a fire has started,it seems that the only
thing being saved is the structure.
As mentioned,false alarms would do a
lot of damage,adding to insurance claims so
where's the savings?
Rural locations would be at risk to greater damage
because of response time,and lack of fire hydrants,but
what kind of sprinkler system would be affective running off
a well?
How many gallons a minute would you need to feed that system?
I can see it costing a lot more than just the system itself.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

TJI in fire will fail a lot faster than a 2x joist. I don't know what it is like in the USA, but in this region of Canada, more and more are using TJI's to frame a floor than 2x. This could be the lessen the risk of the building collapsing on the occupants during the event of a fire.


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## pruane (Jul 2, 2006)

As a firefighter i will say this, why would you fight this? At or below $2 a sf it is worth it. They have pex that can be used for fire sprinklers. 1 head 10 gpm will put out most fires. They only go off when the heat is above the sprinkler head temp, ie 165 degrees. There are NO false alarms. I have one and I would not live in a house without one.


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## RenaissanceR (May 16, 2006)

*Seen In Passing...*

[deleted]


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

pruane said:


> As a firefighter i will say this, why would you fight this? At or below $2 a sf it is worth it. They have pex that can be used for fire sprinklers. 1 head 10 gpm will put out most fires. They only go off when the heat is above the sprinkler head temp, ie 165 degrees. There are NO false alarms. I have one and I would not live in a house without one.


You seriously think Pex would hold up in a fire?


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## pruane (Jul 2, 2006)

rbsremodeling said:


> You seriously think Pex would hold up in a fire?


Yes, I know it does.


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## monticellohomes (Mar 19, 2008)

pruane said:


> As a firefighter i will say this, why would you fight this? At or below $2 a sf it is worth it. They have pex that can be used for fire sprinklers. 1 head 10 gpm will put out most fires. They only go off when the heat is above the sprinkler head temp, ie 165 degrees. There are NO false alarms. I have one and I would not live in a house without one.


To you it is worth it. That is why it should be left up to each individual homeowner to decide. Our government has to quite mandating, if someone chooses not to have one they are taking that risk.


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## robert c1 (Mar 11, 2007)

Here's one reason among MANY:

Remodels can trigger the sprinkler requirement.
Here's your conversation with the AHJ: What you have inadequate supply from the main? What the local feed off the main is only 4"? Oh no problem sir just fix all that and we'll approve your kitchen addition, while of course allowing you to retrofit sprinkler heads throughout the house... for safety.


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

IMO, I don’t think they should be a forced requirement on single family homes, but definitely should be required on multifamily buildings. 
I’ve actually had a single sprinkler head mounted on the ceiling over my oil burner since the house was built in ’94. It’s the only one in the entire house. I have accidentally bumped it few times over the years, but have never accidentally set it off. This one has street water pressure behind it at all times, unlike a dry system, which is filled with compressed air.

They use a lot of the orange fire rated plastic pipe for high end single family and condo building sprinkler systems around here.


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## 3bar (Jan 14, 2011)

i just dont see the point of having this installed in single family homes. seriously, how often do you see a home burn, let alone a recently constructed home?


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Why can't we get HONEST numbers? Is it because the industry lobbyists don't want us to have them?

We've put hardwired smokes with battery back-ups throughout the home. We've made most of the wiring arc fault protected. This was done to save lives. We put in explosion proof water heaters to save lives. We've added draft stopping between floors, fire blocking and more to save lives. So, if they want to tell me that sprinklers will save lives, give me the numbers of fire deaths in newer houses with the other fire safety systems installed. 

Unfortunately, the numbers we get include the entire housing stock, including the old houses with little to no fire protection. This is a dishonest comparison.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

3bar said:


> seriously, how often do you see a home burn, let alone a recently constructed home?


I agree that it shouldn't be required. However, you might pose your question to any of the dozens of fire companies in your area. It does happen.


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## Panama Wayne (Jan 10, 2011)

There has never been a multiple loss of life in a fully sprinklered building,Over 90 percent of fire related deaths occour in single family homes.
That being said if there was a signifigant reduction in insurance rates for a single family home as there is in a commercial building the system would pay for itself in a few years and could someday save your life, For an extra $4k for an average home in my opinion that's peanuts! 

I do agree that there are too many rules in The U.S. and that is part of the reason why I chose to live outside the country.Plus the fact that there is not much work back home and it's super affordable to live here.


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## Panama Wayne (Jan 10, 2011)

None of those items do anything to stop a fire, They will stop the spread or notify but a sprinkler system will and can actually save you.:thumbup:



thom said:


> Why can't we get HONEST numbers? Is it because the industry lobbyists don't want us to have them?
> 
> We've put hardwired smokes with battery back-ups throughout the home. We've made most of the wiring arc fault protected. This was done to save lives. We put in explosion proof water heaters to save lives. We've added draft stopping between floors, fire blocking and more to save lives. So, if they want to tell me that sprinklers will save lives, give me the numbers of fire deaths in newer houses with the other fire safety systems installed.
> 
> Unfortunately, the numbers we get include the entire housing stock, including the old houses with little to no fire protection. This is a dishonest comparison.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Panama Wayne said:


> None of those items do anything to stop a fire, They will stop the spread or notify but a sprinkler system will and can actually save you.:thumbup:


They wern't intended to stop a fire, merely allow people time to get out. If the argument is "saves lives" then give us those real numbers. You just changed it to "saves property" so give us the real numbers of how much it will save. 

What are the real numbers? leave out fire deaths in houses without arc-fault breakers, leave out multi-family, leave out mobile homes and motor homes, leave out houses without smoke detectors, leave out houses without explosion proof water heaters...... 

Boottom line, give us the incidence of fire related deaths in single family houses constructed within the past three years. Those numbers would actually be meaningful. 

I don't think you'll convince any of us that property damage resulting from the sprinkler systems will be less than property damage resulting from the fires.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Panama Wayne said:


> You fill the School with combustable items and kids, The town I used to live in (Shelton,Ct.) Nearing completion of the new high school the Mayor made a statement "What will burn here? People and paper?" Well not two weeks later a Electrician working at that brand new school threw a cigarette butt into a unsprinklered closet and caused 1 million in damages as well as a huge delay for the school completion!
> 
> 
> Remember that over 90 percent of all deaths related to fire are in the home, Smoke detectors don't put them out...*And as far as the statement of fittings and heads "wearing out" is nonsense,*I worked in buildings over 100 years old and the pipes and fittings were fine, All is required is some testing to ensure the alarms work and there is no stoppage in waterflow!


I didn't say they would "wear out". I said failure rates. And you must be in denial because fire protection is your livelyhood, to say it is nonsense. There are many cases of sprinkler system failures. Both going off when not needed and vise versa. O-rings sticking and fusible alloys have caused failures in systems. 

The dollar amount spent on sprinklers does not even come close to the dollar amount that they have saved in buildings. Especially when you factor in the amount of damage done by sprinklers. Both putting out fires and from failures.

I do believe sprinklers have their place. But they are over mandated. And making someone install them in a single family home is crazy. It is MY house. The government needs to stay out of it.


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## AlanJackson (Jan 18, 2011)

California passed a new law mandating that new homes have fire sprinklers installed in every room. The law takes effect in January 2011.... any other states???


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## Jrickard (Jan 11, 2011)

oldfrt said:


> It really doesn't make much sense to me.
> Since smoke alarms should alert the occupants
> when a fire has started,it seems that the only
> thing being saved is the structure.
> ...


 My understanding is that the home requires a reserve tank of x amount of gallons to supply the sprinkler system. And as far as 2 dollars a sq ft to install i have heard much higher prices. That being said i work in Dingmans ferry pa and this has just become a requirement so i have not yet seen it.


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## robert c1 (Mar 11, 2007)

Panama Wayne said:


> That being said if there was a signifigant reduction in insurance rates for a single family home as there is in a commercial building the system would pay for itself in a few years and could someday save your life, For an extra $4k for an average home in my opinion that's peanuts! .


I beg to differ on this one. These will cost insurance companies way more money in burst pipe failures than they will ever save from fire damage.

Last winter there was a couple year old development in Dupont, WA where half the house's sprinkler pipes froze and burst.


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## Panama Wayne (Jan 10, 2011)

robert c1 said:


> I beg to differ on this one. These will cost insurance companies way more money in burst pipe failures than they will ever save from fire damage.
> 
> Last winter there was a couple year old development in Dupont, WA where half the house's sprinkler pipes froze and burst.


If this is true why do fully insured sprinklered buildings have lower premiums?
As with any trade there are incorrectly installed systems and shoddy contractors especially in this field as most of the installers in residential structures are plumbers without much sprinkler experience,

I have fixed many freeze ups from various factors but no more of a ratio of frozen plumbing pipes. From my experience it's cheaper to fix water damage than replace a structure or life...No I don't agree that the gov't should force every house to have a system but the truth is that sprinklers get a bad rap in regards to water damage etc. which is a rarity that everyone seems to focus on when in fact that they are the only tool that can actually save a life in a fire.


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## robert c1 (Mar 11, 2007)

I think you're talking apples to oranges. Commercial vs Residential. 
The equation changes greatly when you get into large multistory buildings.

I don't think you'll find many people arguing against sprinklers in these buildings. But you just can't compare that to a residential building where 90% of the time you are a window away from egress. 

The risk/reward equation approaches ludicrous speed.


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## CGallagher (Apr 20, 2010)

Sprinklers were meant to save lives, not the home. They will cause just as much damage as the fire will. Homes burn down daily around here. But they are the old homes without smoke detectors, unpermitted wiring, no fire blocking, no egress, ect... It would save more lives to require that they be installed in older homes, which is completely impractible. Texas passed a law giving builders/homeowners a choice.


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## Panama Wayne (Jan 10, 2011)

CGallagher said:


> Sprinklers were meant to save lives, not the home. They will cause just as much damage as the fire will. Homes burn down daily around here. But they are the old homes without smoke detectors, unpermitted wiring, no fire blocking, no egress, ect... It would save more lives to require that they be installed in older homes, which is completely impractible. Texas passed a law giving builders/homeowners a choice.


You are saying that water damage is bad as fire damage of a uncontrolled fire? I won't even respond to that,Replace warped floors nand walls vs. a new structurally damaqed structure?


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Panama Wayne said:


> You are saying that water damage is bad as fire damage of a uncontrolled fire? I won't even respond to that,Replace warped floors nand walls vs. a new structurally damaqed structure?



As any builder/contractor can tell you, water damage can be as devastating to a structure as a fire....both require demo and re-building.

The larger point is this: There is a cost associated with every perceived benefit of laws passed to "protect" people....forcing us to install sprinklers in residences is intrusive, and certainly should be the choice of the builder. 


Did you ever hear of the Constitution? We do have some remaining rights.


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## CGallagher (Apr 20, 2010)

Panama Wayne said:


> *You are saying that water damage is bad as fire damage of a uncontrolled fire?* I won't even respond to that,Replace warped floors nand walls vs. a new structurally damaqed structure?


No. But it is comparatively bad. Personal belongings, furniture, clothes will be destroyed in either case. Yeah the framing doesn't go up, but when you've lost all your stuff, the floors the walls, ect... your not that much better off. If there's a fire and I'm home, I'll fight it with my fire extinguisher. If I'm not home, let her burn, I'll gladly take the insurance money and build a new one. And at that time, I'll decide if I want sprinklers or not.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

Perhaps someone can give more exact details of what happened in Iowa, but this is what I recall and what I've read.

There was a big scare about this time last year I believe as the matter was being considered for discussion by our almighty legislature. They saved the day and not only opted to not adopt the code update, but somehow made it impossible to have it considered in the future.

Something like that. They really punished the people who wanted to introduce this. Almost as good as sodomizing them with a fire extinguisher.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

robert c1 said:


> I beg to differ on this one. These will cost insurance companies way more money in burst pipe failures than they will ever save from fire damage.
> 
> Last winter there was a couple year old development in Dupont, WA where half the house's sprinkler pipes froze and burst.


I bid to rehab one of those houses, each one was looking at a 50-100k loss. To be fair though, I sincerely doubt there was R38 in those attics.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

pruane said:


> As a firefighter i will say this, why would you fight this? At or below $2 a sf it is worth it. They have pex that can be used for fire sprinklers. 1 head 10 gpm will put out most fires. They only go off when the heat is above the sprinkler head temp, ie 165 degrees. There are NO false alarms. I have one and I would not live in a house without one.


From fire fighter stand point i guess you would no longer be needed. 99 weeks of unemployment for you. As far as i am concerned this is just a control and money issue. I have seen the temp heads go bad and do a lot of damage, problem is will your insurance even cover it??? I am sure most insurance companies do not and would cost you extra because of it. Insurance companies sure as hell wont give you a discount for it, that is for sure. 

The only time i have seen it required around here in a residential setting is if there is no access to the residence for fire apparatus. Even then it is up to the owners and whether they want any kind of insurance or not.


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