# Charging for Estimates?



## andrew07 (Jul 3, 2007)

Or tell them you wont charge for a verbal estimate, but if they want something in writing then charge them (or if they want to sign a contract then waive the fee), so that cant use the written estimate against other contractors to get a better price. I had that happen once, learned fast.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Last year I started working from drawings on doing a audio/automation system for a client. I invested at least 30 hours in it at that time and they liked where everything was going. Then this economic downturn happened and they put everything on hold.

Finally got in contact with me again about a month ago and wanted to update everything. I did and send them off the details. No response. Followed up. No response. Followed up last night, "Sorry, your price was way more expensive than the other person we saw/talked to."

I am now kicking myself for not charging a design fee back when I first met them.

If I see myself investing more than an hour putting something together, I have to start charging design fees. No more, "Give them the price and make up the design fees on closing". That obviously never works.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)




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## Handymanservice (Mar 1, 2009)

We email out a price range for services similar to what they are interested in for FREE. If they wait anything further, that is specific to their job only, there is a $35.00 fee for us to come out and look at it and give an estimate.

I do not itemize pricing, I basically lump everything together and then a total at the bottom. If they omit something, I decrease the price proportionately.

We are not set up for competitive bidding, I know what I need to make for every labor hour, period. I cannot drop my price to match someone elses because something would have to suffer.

Luckily, we are set up a different way and most people are happy we will do the small (multiple) jobs they need done. I would say our prices are higher than most people would charge just because I am getting more confident in our business Model and actually pricing the work with profit goals in mind.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

Just got a call last night from a guy who wanted me to come out and give him an estimate... first thing he asked was if I charge for estimates.. he was a bit of a stuffy fellow (read prick) and I had to pull all the info from him.. address, name, scope of work he wanted and told him I could bring his estimate to him on Monday.. that wasn't good enough, and I am not going to waste my father's day working, so I told him monday morning he would have the estimate.. he said "look.. I just want to know how much it is going to cost.."  this guy didn't seem like a good customer to work for so I just decided I was not going to go today to give him an estimate.

Was this wrong of me to do? Yeah probably but this year has seriously taught me the tire kickers are in full effect, and this guy sounded like a thoroughbred.


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## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

J F said:


> we need a link(s) to finley's bible on this shiite....


I wouldn't be so quick to use any of Finnely's methods.


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## Micvanlen (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm a general contractor living in Calgary, Albert and this city is rediculous for traffic. The citiy is great for business, but it's so spread out that you can spend an entire day doing estimates and only see 5 clients because the rest of the time is spent in the truck. So, I started this website with the idea of doing estimates over the internet. If your a Calgary Contractor, then check out www.renolink.ca/members because it's a huge timesaver and a way of still being able to offer free estimates.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Crock said:


> I wouldn't be so quick to use any of Finnely's methods.


 
Just dying to read some of yours, care to share?


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

nEighter said:


> This guy didn't seem like a good customer to work for so I just decided I was not going to go today to give him an estimate.
> 
> Was this wrong of me to do? Yeah probably but this year has seriously taught me the tire kickers are in full effect, and this guy sounded like a thoroughbred.


You're much better off taking the high road and telling him right up front that your not interested in working for him. 

It is truly empowering to fire a PITA client _(or potential client)_ that isn't a good fit. When you fire THEM doesn't make you look like the stereotypical deadbeat contractor that just dosn't show up. Instead you are the contractor that tells it like it is with integrity.............that really gets their goat and hey have no ammo to bad mouth you with. After doing it a few times you will see what I meen and you will walk a little taller.


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## Elite_Drywall (Feb 23, 2009)

Crock said:


> Always Free Estimates. It's in bold on all my advertising. I will never charge unless I move to a city of 1 million or more residents. Then it's a no brainer
> 
> 
> EDIT; I should add that most of my estimates take 10-15 minutes and most of the time write the price on the back of my business card. I think alot of guys on CT are confusing estimate with design. To me an estimate is ringing a doorbell, look at the area they want the treated deck, and then give them the price. That's free and takes 10-15 minutes. My town is about 30 miles long east to west, and about 15 miles north to south so you can always pop in during a lunch break or on your way home.


 
Saw that you were laughing at my last post, because I said I charge for an estimate. Aperently from reading this we are not in the same business. How can you give an estimate in 10 to 15 minutes that you are there? Do you do a breakdown cost? If it only takes you 10 to 15 minutes to give the estimate then you must be doing petty stuff. Charging for an estimate will eliminate 95% of the HO’s that are just price shopping. Ohh, you treat decks is that even considered construction? No wonder you it only takes 10 to 15 minutes for your estimates. Before you go around laughing at REAL CONSTRUCTION COMPANYS, do REAL CONSTRUCTION work.


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## Crock (Mar 8, 2009)

Elite_Drywall said:


> Saw that you were laughing at my last post, because I said I charge for an estimate. Aperently from reading this we are not in the same business. How can you give an estimate in 10 to 15 minutes that you are there? Do you do a breakdown cost? If it only takes you 10 to 15 minutes to give the estimate then you must be doing petty stuff. Charging for an estimate will eliminate 95% of the HO’s that are just price shopping. Ohh, you treat decks is that even considered construction? No wonder you it only takes 10 to 15 minutes for your estimates. Before you go around laughing at REAL CONSTRUCTION COMPANYS, do REAL CONSTRUCTION work.


 
Your right!! I am changing my policy. From here on out I'm charging $150.00 to show up and use the long form for the estimates, and I'm no longer building decks with treated lumber, just treating the deck they have!:no:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

nEighter said:


> Just got a call last night from a guy who wanted me to come out and give him an estimate... first thing he asked was if I charge for estimates.. he was a bit of a stuffy fellow (read prick) and I had to pull all the info from him.. address, name, scope of work he wanted and told him I could bring his estimate to him on Monday.. that wasn't good enough, and I am not going to waste my father's day working, so I told him monday morning he would have the estimate.. he said "look.. I just want to know how much it is going to cost.."  this guy didn't seem like a good customer to work for so I just decided I was not going to go today to give him an estimate.
> 
> Was this wrong of me to do? Yeah probably but this year has seriously taught me the tire kickers are in full effect, and this guy sounded like a thoroughbred.



As you do more and more work with the public you will get your gut feeling adjusted to find the a-holes. Sometimes it isn't worth the effort to even give them an estimate. Some people think that you are making too much money and aren't willing to pay the going rate for the project. Good for you for not taking the bait on this job. It was a good chance that it would have turned into a disaster anyway. People like this are people you need to avoid. When they make it hard to get the simplest of info, imagine what it is going to take to get an important pc of info in the middle of the job when they just don't feel like making up their minds. You will never loose money on a job you didn't take.


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> You're much better off taking the high road and telling him right up front that your not interested in working for him.
> 
> It is truly empowering to fire a PITA client _(or potential client)_ that isn't a good fit. When you fire THEM doesn't make you look like the stereotypical deadbeat contractor that just dosn't show up. Instead you are the contractor that tells it like it is with integrity.............that really gets their goat and hey have no ammo to bad mouth you with. After doing it a few times you will see what I meen and you will walk a little taller.


Yes it is! I am tired of wasting my time. There is a difference between people who want the work done and don't mind paying for it and the guy who is just shopping for the right price. Last friday I went by house I quoted over a month ago.. I pulled up to see another company there giving an estimate. Good gawd man. They wait till their house falls apart then want it done for nothing.  no thank you.



Leo G said:


> As you do more and more work with the public you will get your gut feeling adjusted to find the a-holes. Sometimes it isn't worth the effort to even give them an estimate. Some people think that you are making too much money and aren't willing to pay the going rate for the project. Good for you for not taking the bait on this job. It was a good chance that it would have turned into a disaster anyway. People like this are people you need to avoid. When they make it hard to get the simplest of info, imagine what it is going to take to get an important pc of info in the middle of the job when they just don't feel like making up their minds. You will never loose money on a job you didn't take.



Yep, but in the past I have had them run me through the mud. I don't like being run through the mud. No fun. I read some stuff on CT about "you surround yourself with the type of customer you attract, or attract a certain type of customer if you put out that you will do anything for nothing.." < something like that. I thought of this and said to myself "Do you REALLY want to do this?? I got to be honest with him.".


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

Elite_Drywall said:


> Ohh, you treat decks is that even considered construction? No wonder you it only takes 10 to 15 minutes for your estimates.


I dont care if you just want a gutter cleaning .... it still costs $35 for us to come out and asses the situation.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I did an estimate for a bamboo cabinet for a lady. She sounded like she liked my price. We set up an appointment so she could see samples of the plywood and solid and I could see the place and take measurements. At the end of the meeting, just as I was leaving she said that she thought it would be about $1000 dollars less. Said she would call. And she did, and she tried everything to get me to lower my price, include lying that she got another bid that was cheaper but she still wanted to go with me because of my reputation. But of course she wanted me to lower my price by $1000. I told he flat out my price was what it was and I was sorry that she couldn't afford it, but it was still the same price. She called another 5 times, the first I answered and then after that I just ignored her, she was almost stalking me. Some people just don't get that quality work gets a premium price. She liked my reputation, but couldn't afford it. Sorry.


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## Handymanservice (Mar 1, 2009)

*You will never loose money on a job you didn't take.*

I have never understood this line. You will certainly lose money on every job you do not take. You lose the profit from that job and if you do your job up front, you shouldn't have to worry about losing money.

I get the intent of the saying, but it just doesn't work in my mind.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

How can you lose money on doing no work? If you take a job for some schmuck and he doesn't pay you you lose money. If you had a gut feeling about this guy and went and took the job anyway you deserve the hard knocks lesson. Learn that everyone is not a good customer. Some people are out there to actively rip you off. If you have a bad feeling, trust it.

Not working for someone, how can you lose money? If you don't work for them, there is no profit and no loss. If you don't want to understand this, good for you.

As a handyman I would assume that most of your jobs are pretty short term. But in the construction field getting some jerk of a client can really affect the bottom line. A handyman business is mostly a service business. You go in, do your stuff and charge them a preset fee or T&M. Doing construction you usually have a contract, the jobs can take a few days to several months/years. If something goes wrong, or you have a bad client you can lose a lot of money fast. Not so easy in a handyman type service.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Leo G said:


> How can you lose money on doing no work? If you take a job for some schmuck and he doesn't pay you you lose money. If you had a gut feeling about this guy and went and took the job anyway you deserve the hard knocks lesson. Learn that everyone is not a good customer. Some people are out there to actively rip you off. If you have a bad feeling, trust it.
> 
> Not working for someone, how can you lose money? If you don't work for them, there is no profit and no loss. If you don't want to understand this, good for you.


he's a handyman....


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

It could actually end up costing you your livelihood. I like to get paid, and work to get paid.. I don't like to work to not get paid.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

mahlere said:


> he's a handyman....


Ya, I noticed that and put up a revised statement. Look up.(#37):whistling


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

$30.00? $150.00? Are you guys nuts?

I won't stick my key in my ignition for less than $250.00. That gets you three hours of me from the time I leave the shop, work at your house and return. Customers pay for windshield time or I don't go. $75.00 for every hour I'm there.

I qualify prospects over the phone. I ask what they have budgeted for their project. Many often say they don't know, that's why they're seeking estimates. I explain that an estimate and a budget are two different things. When your car is wrecked by a meteorite, you know whether you're going to buy a $500.00 junker, a nice used car or spring for the Mercedes you've always wanted. If they won't mention a budget, no estimate for you.

Show some self-respect and make 'em pay.

Joe


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## Handymanservice (Mar 1, 2009)

Leo G said:


> How can you lose money on doing no work? If you are doing "no" work, your overhead still has to be paid and you are out of pocket on that because there is no "job" income coming in to pay for it. If you take a job for some schmuck and he doesn't pay you you lose money. If your contract is structured properly for payments, you should never "lose" money, if they do not pay the draw, you do not work. If you had a gut feeling about this guy and went and took the job anyway you deserve the hard knocks lesson. True. Learn that everyone is not a good customer. Point taken, I know that everyone is not a good customer and I know that some that I thought were good customers, aren't. Some people are out there to actively rip you off. If you have a bad feeling, trust it. I completely agree with you here.
> 
> Not working for someone, how can you lose money? If you don't work for them, there is no profit and no loss. If you don't want to understand this, good for you.
> 
> As a handyman I would assume that most of your jobs are pretty short term. But in the construction field getting some jerk of a client can really affect the bottom line. I have gotten jerk customers, but never a jerk client. I refer to my regular customers as clients. A handyman business is mostly a service business. You go in, do your stuff and charge them a preset fee or T&M. Doing construction you usually have a contract, the jobs can take a few days to several months/years. If something goes wrong, or you have a bad client you can lose a lot of money fast. Not so easy in a handyman type service.


Leo, I value your opinion and am not trying to debate, I think we come from two different points of view and this is where our opinions differ. 

Yes, I'm a handyman and I own a handyman service business. I get where you are coming from with that statement, what I am getting at is this, if you are really pre-qualifying your customer's, the chances of getting burned are less, not gone, but less.

I owned a full-on construction company previously, I had the employee's and the trucks and the office and the headaches and all the taxes and the stress and at the end of the year, I didn't make anymore money than I do now. Handyman, in my neck of the woods, is not a dirty word, but an extremely profitable niche business.

I do try to avoid the schmuck's, every now and then though, I do take a job I shouldn't have. I just don't lose a lot of money.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Handymanservice said:


> Leo, I value your opinion and am not trying to debate, I think we come from two different points of view and this is where our opinions differ.
> 
> Yes, I'm a handyman and I own a handyman service business. I get where you are coming from with that statement, what I am getting at is this, if you are really pre-qualifying your customer's, the chances of getting burned are less, not gone, but less.
> 
> ...



ok, you just validated the phrase....

if you pre-qualify them, and decide that they are too big of a risk, and don't do the job....you can't lose money on them....

that's all it means...qualify....


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Handymanservice said:


> I do try to avoid the schmuck's, every now and then though, I do take a job I shouldn't have. I just don't lose a lot of money.


Not losing a lot of money is still losing money. And as Mahlere said if you pre-qualify then you are not taking the job if they fail your qualification process.

Sounds like you just don't like the saying. I can understand that. I know a lot of people who don't like the saying "It'll look great from my house" I have said this on several occasions when I have a small imperfections that no one but me would even see because I am the one putting everything together. But when they hear it it sounds like you are doing a crappy job and don't care.

To me, it sounds like you are saying one thing and thinking another.:blink:


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## Mr. Mike (Dec 27, 2008)

> $30.00? $150.00? Are you guys nuts?
> 
> I won't stick my key in my ignition for less than $250.00. That gets you three hours of me from the time I leave the shop, work at your house and return. Customers pay for windshield time or I don't go. $75.00 for every hour I'm there.
> 
> ...



Great post, I will tweak that up a bit and start using it to get payed for budgets...


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## Handymanservice (Mar 1, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Not losing a lot of money is still losing money. And as Mahlere said if you pre-qualify then you are not taking the job if they fail your qualification process.
> 
> Sounds like you just don't like the saying. I can understand that. I know a lot of people who don't like the saying "It'll look great from my house" I have said this on several occasions when I have a small imperfections that no one but me would even see because I am the one putting everything together. But when they hear it it sounds like you are doing a crappy job and don't care.
> 
> To me, it sounds like you are saying one thing and thinking another.:blink:


I think you are correct, it is the saying, not the meaning. I also agree on the "can't see it from my house" comment. It use to piss me off terribly when one of my guys would caulk a piece of trim with paint or something, and then when I would call him on it, he would give me that line.

Without going back and rereading, do you charge for your estimates? I think we got sidetracked here and I can't remember?

Have a good one.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Yes I do. I charge $1.00

And you wouldn't believe the people that aren't willing to pay it.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

This cracks me up every time you post it Leo...just amazes me how cheap a LOT of people are. 

You're willing to _drive to their house_, to _discuss their project_ with them...and $1 is too much. :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

It lets you know _real quickly_ who places _absolutely_ no value on your time/expertise.


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## Solardave (Jun 22, 2009)

*You bet*

In my line I charge for a site survey. $125. It weeds out the people who are just curious about Solar.If they're willing to pay that I know they're serious and will get the money back in the form of a rebate if we do business.


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

Solardave said:


> In my line I charge for a site survey. $125. It weeds out the people who are just curious about Solar.If they're willing to pay that I know they're serious and will get the money back in the form of a rebate if we do business.


I would like to check out your web site Dave. Thanks


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## WestCoastVinyl (Jun 5, 2009)

West Coast Vinyl gives out complementary gift card when avail.


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

WestCoastVinyl said:


> West Coast Vinyl gives out complementary gift card when avail.


Nice video


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## bonz (Mar 23, 2009)

I need to start charging for estimates... An estimate for an office or residential renovation takes alot of time (demo, possible foundation, framing, windows/doors, roofing, electrical, plumbing, inso, drywall, flooring, paint, etc...).
If I don't charge a fee up front, I feel that I have already invested so much time, the job becomes too important and I give in to discounts just to make sure all my efforts aren't wasted. Not a good state of mind to be in when negotiating with a customer...


One thing I have learned is to keep my bids simple and with limited detail (unless paid for). One particular estimate, which I lost, got my attention...
I was told my bid was the most detailed of the 3 submitted. The customer said he used it to go back to my competitors and make sure they were "including everything that was detailed on my bid" in their price. He then gave the job to another company for 6% less. Man, that still gets my blood boiling just thinking about it...

I really NEED to start charging for estimates...

bonz


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## UnitedMA (Jun 26, 2009)

The only thing we charge for is insurance estimates because people generally take advantage of contractors who offer a free estimate just to get the maximum amount of money from the insurance company.

I think charging for estimates really depends on the type of contracting you are in. I can understand charging for designing an addition, or major remodel, or full landscape overhall. We just do roofing, siding, and windows which are generally not overly time consuming to estimate.


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## ARI001 (Jun 16, 2009)

We charge $150 for estimates on large jobs plus $35 for each trade estimate. I will give ball park estimates over the phone at no cost for projects like pressure treated decks that we have a standard prices for based on size and elevation. I also charge for insurance estimates as I have found about 1 in 5 (my experience yours may differ) actually have us do the work and are not just fishing for the claim money. We do tell potential clients that if they sign a contract we will credit all estimate charges to the cost of the job and we do honor that. I have found this weeds out a lot of the price shoppers (you know the ones who are just wondering what it would cost to a job they never intend to have done) and people who really are not at the point to be requesting bids (i.e. want two story addition and need plans drawn but have none available).


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## excellencee (Feb 1, 2007)

Being in the trades I have asked fellow contactors for a "ballpark estimate" for...(fill in the blank). If I know it's going to cost about $5000 then when I have about $5000 saved up, thenI call for a real price. It's a lot easier for me to come up with $200 when the bid is $5200 than to come up with $5200. I don't ask for design or material lists so I can do it myself or get a Dutchman for $10 an hour. It's just so I have the money to pay promptly upon job completeion. 
I don't charge for estimates of this type because I ask for them, but I'm starting to charge for other estimates. Especially real estate agents. I can't tell you how many free estimates I have given out to prospective homeowners just looking to beat down the seller without any intention of hiring me to fix the problems. They just live with it, fix it themselves, or get Uncle Tony's niece's girlfriend's cousin's Aunt's friend from the bar to fix it.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:laughing: yup


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

excellencee said:


> or get Uncle Tony's niece's girlfriend's cousin's Aunt's friend from the bar to fix it.


I hate that guy


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## AcesGuy (Jun 30, 2009)

What kind of estimating?


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

And start using the words "proposal" and "quote" in place of "estimate". An estimate is a guess....if you're getting paid for it, you shouldn't be guessing.


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

AmeliaP said:


> I was trying to work that out in head myself. What works smoothly?
> 
> ......


 
What works smoothly is to build it in your cost of doing business.:thumbsup:


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## bonz (Mar 23, 2009)

I am still giving free proposals. But, the customer gets very limited information on paper (or email).

I will answer any questions they may have about the quote verbally. But, if they want my detailed proposal on paper (or electronically), I charge for that - amount fully applicable toward the job upon signing a contract.


Greg


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## onenia (Apr 17, 2007)

> You're describing the reason why your make the switch. Of course it helps your business, of course you have a better quality of customer base. That's the reason for doing it. :thumbsup:


You're right I did answer my own question. Thanks Mike must have been tired from dealing with all those tire kickers :furious:


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## tokyotank (Dec 8, 2011)

*Re: Charging For Estimates?*

I charge $3200 for my design proposals not including blueprint cost. Have not had one turned down yet. Basically they get 80 man hours worth of design work and estimating which includes initial meeting, 3d drawings of propsed project, final go ahead or revision meeting to drawings, meeting with archetect several times, meeting with subs , bid the work. There is way more billable time but we have found this to be a good solid number to land serious no BS customers. they are paying you for your hard earned reputation and expertise in your trade. We work to hard for our money and the amount of time involved in getting and major job from the drawing board to the final bid form is extremely involved. Obviously not all jobs are going to qaulify for this type of fee thats where commom sense comes into play. However smaller jobs do get a fee as well but smaller ones incur a $1500 fee which still includes several hours worth of 3D drawings and most of the bells and whistles included wither a bigger job. Your time is to valuable to continue to keep giving it away for free.


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