# advice for starting out ?



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

CookeCarpentry said:


> You'll chew threw $5k in start-ups
> 
> PA Registration: $50
> LLC Filings: $750
> ...


...and gas,gas,gas galore!


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> plus $2,000 in coffee and sweet rolls.
> 
> Mike


Same here.... + another $100 in reeses pb cups...takes the edge off lol


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

And don't forget your monthly expenses as soon as you start...

Cell Phone
Office/Fax Phone
Gas
Internet
Web Hosting
Gas
Health Insurance
Gas
Tool Maintenance
Truck Maintenance
Printing Fees (business cards, etc.)

Just to name a few...


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

The worst is unexpected expense.... couple months ago was on the phone with a customer and it took a crap... had to drop everything and get a new phone...
New phone and plan upgrade $485


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> The worst is unexpected expense.... couple months ago was on the phone with a customer and it took a crap... had to drop everything and get a new phone...
> New phone and plan upgrade $485


2 weeks later my computer crashed...


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't know if this guy is still around now....:laughing:

Hell, I'm starting to second guess why I am self employed....:shifty:

















Oh yea, that's right....I am officially "unemployable" :jester:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> The worst is unexpected expense.... couple months ago was on the phone with a customer and it took a crap... had to drop everything and get a new phone...
> New phone and plan upgrade $485


Wanna know what's even worse?

You buy a Blackberry because people tell you it's great and sign up for two years. When your in the store and they ask you for insurance and you say no then walk out the door and accidentally fling the phone 60 feet and it lands on concrete.

Then, as if things didn't already suck a year into the contract the phone sucks so bad you beg the customer service rep at the HIGH level (because the store people can't help) to get you a new replacement phone so you can call customers without sounding like your standing in a dam microwave while it's on. She says sure but you have to extend your contract by two more years so your now on the hook for 3 more with a phone outdated because Steve jobs thought it would be cool to invent the dam iphone with cool applications that actually work for a fckn change.

Meanwhile, back at Mike's Plumbing World headquarters the same people that concinced me to buy a Blackberry all have iphones because they don't spill glue and cleaner all over the worlds smallest keyboard mean for midgets with tiny hands. 

But hey, look at the bright side, when it's all said and done the extra expense to tell US Cellualar to pound sand and go buy a real phone only costs me 2,000 F'n dollars.

Mike


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## NTP74 (Feb 1, 2011)

How about just getting a DBA ?

I don't know about coming up with 10G's....

I'm gonna get ragged on for being a cheapa** but , it appears to me that the PA dept of state website has all the forms needed to file for LLC.

What's stopping anyone from doing it by themselves ?


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

NTP74 said:


> How about just getting a DBA ?
> 
> I don't know about coming up with 10G's....
> 
> ...


I did it myself, it's not hard at all and people do it all the time with no problems.

Legal zoom is pretty good I hear for only $99 for the service.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

NTP74 said:


> How about just getting a DBA ?
> 
> I don't know about coming up with 10G's....
> 
> ...


You can do a DBA - much more liability.

Even if you had all the forms for an LLC, you still have to pay to advertise it in two local papers...couple hundred there probably.

If you are single, don't own a home, have no kids, no real liabilities, a DBA is a good idea...but as soon as you buy a house, get married, have kids, buy a nice truck, etc...I would want more protection.

Not to mention, I don't know how general liability policies differ between a DBA and LLC.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

NTP74 said:


> How about just getting a DBA ?
> 
> I don't know about coming up with 10G's....
> 
> ...


You can do it on the website too.... but they don't do your operating agreement, corporation book etc... so you will have to go to a lawyer anyway if you want to follow the PA corporation business laws. A lawyer may charge more since he's picking up half done work... having a good relationship with a lawyer is a must in the business world!


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## NTP74 (Feb 1, 2011)

CookeCarpentry said:


> You can do a DBA - much more liability.
> 
> Even if you had all the forms for an LLC, you still have to pay to advertise it in two local papers...couple hundred there probably.
> 
> but as soon as you buy a house, get married, have kids, buy a nice truck, etc...I would want more protection.


 
That would be me...& yeah , you are scaring me a little Mark . LOL


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Wanna know what's even worse?
> 
> You buy a Blackberry because people tell you it's great and sign up for two years. When your in the store and they ask you for insurance and you say no then walk out the door and accidentally fling the phone 60 feet and it lands on concrete.
> 
> ...


OMG! I was laughing so hard that I spilled my tea and burnt myself with a cig...... lol!!!
I needed that.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I'm an LLc and in Wisconsin they walk you right through it. My wife is a CPA so it's easier though.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

Yea, Mike's post clearly violated his own rule of 5 sentences or less....:laughing:


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## NTP74 (Feb 1, 2011)

Awsome , a lawyer & accountant...


Suddenly thinking of the movie Devils Advocate.:devil:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

CookeCarpentry said:


> Yea, Mike's post clearly violated his own rule of 5 sentences or less....:laughing:


I changed it for ya


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> OMG! I was laughing so hard that I spilled my tea and burnt myself with a cig...... lol!!!
> I needed that.


Who drinks tea and smokes cigarettes? That's like drinking whiskey and playing Chinese checkers.:laughing:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Operating Agreement, corp. Book w/ meeting minutes and 2 ads drawn up by lawyer branding your company. This will make you legitimate...
If you ever end up in court and someone is trying to take you to the bank... if you don't have these things, you will be branded a SHAM company! This is one thing that you definately need a lawyer for, so he may as well file the papers for you too


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Who drinks tea and smokes cigarettes? That's like drinking whiskey and playing Chinese checkers.:laughing:


Long Island...


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Tech Dawg said:


> Long Island...


Whew, that's more like it. :thumbsup:


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## mehtwo (Nov 14, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Who drinks tea and smokes cigarettes? That's like drinking whiskey and playing Chinese checkers.:laughing:


....while watching Barney Miller or Sanford and Son reruns......


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## MOTB (May 13, 2009)

*remember to be professional from the start*

All your marketing and sales materials should be the best they can be. Remember, you only have one shot at a first impression for a new customer. So spend a little extra time with a professional looking website, along with whatever else you may hand out and wear. I have created four companies in about twenty years and always ensured to promote a solid reputation and business from the first day of business. All the best and good luck with your venture.
Brian
MyOnlineToolbox.com


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

NTP74 said:


> How about just getting a DBA ?
> 
> I don't know about coming up with 10G's....
> 
> ...


I used Legal Zoom, but we don't need all the crap that one does in PA. It was about $250 when all is said and done.

10G's would be the top of the list. 5g's will do, but you are cutting it close.

What stop's anyone from doing it themselves? The same reason people call us, you want someone who knows the ins and outs and won't f it up.


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## NTP74 (Feb 1, 2011)

Tech Dawg said:


> Filing llc can be from 1,000 to 2,500... you have to do an operating agreement, corporation book(meeting minutes) and the lawyer has to run an add in 2 separate publications stating your company info etc... to validate your corporate presence(basically a poor man's copyright)


From what I can read on the pa state site , _most of_ the things you listed are more for corp. & not needed for llc.

You need to file certificate of organization , docketing agreement & an operating agreement is advisable but not required.

And then set up tax stuff with IRS , which is free if you can figure it out.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

NTP74 said:


> From what I can read on the pa state site , most of the things you listed are more for corp. & not needed for llc.
> 
> You need to file certificate of organization , docketing agreement & an operating agreement is advisable but not required.
> 
> And then set up tax stuff with IRS , which is free if you can figure it out.


Good luck... I did what the lawyer said, its your decision. They told me its the best way to follow business law. I've known this guy for 12 years and he is also my dads title lawyer for real estate so its not like I walked into a random office to become an llc and let the dude take my bank. He did everything for round $700 bux.
"This is the way any respectable company needs to approach this"... that's what he said when he layed the cards down... I said "OK"


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

NTP74 said:


> From what I can read on the pa state site , _most of_ the things you listed are more for corp. & not needed for llc.
> 
> You need to file certificate of organization , docketing agreement & an operating agreement is advisable but not required.
> 
> And then set up tax stuff with IRS , which is free if you can figure it out.


Don't we hate it when customers say, well all you need to do is this. I am not sure why it costs so much and is going to take you that long.

I would say again, that you need a pro to tell you the correct way to do this.


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