# Epoxy Grout rusting??



## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

2 weeks ago I did a strange job - I re-tiled a stainless steel hot tub.

Whoever did it in the first place used sanded grout which was one of the problems - it kept falling off. The other problem was how the tile was set - the radius trim pieces were not really proper and they also kept coming off.

So, we stripped all the tile off, ground down the stainless, set new tile with laticrete epoxy thinset, and grouted with laticrete spectralock.

I just recieved a call this afternoon, saying that the grout was rusting. 

They were also having a problem with rust on the stainless steel before on the tub as well as the handrail going into the tub (and pool). 

They are using a salt system in the pool and a bromine system in the hot tub. 

Obviously, (I would think anyway) grout is not going to rust - its the rust from the stainless steel that is getting into the grout. 

I have to go look at it tomorrow morning - any suggestions?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Stainless steel rusting? 
Um, I think the problem lies elsewhere. Is there something else that's not stainless that can be leaching from behind somehow? Or perhaps they didn't really get "stainless" steel. If it's contaminated with iron, the surface can become oxidized. I think there's some acid you can use to cleanse the stainless if it is contaminated. I'm not sure of the proper type though.
That's all I have. Keep us up to date with what you find.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i think there are many different grades of stainless


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

tomstruble said:


> i think there are many different grades of stainless


True.


One thing I missed:


jarvis design said:


> ground down the stainless,


I believe one of the properties to making stainless steel hard to stain or corrode is a protective layer of chromium. Since you ground it down, this layer is now gone, in effect, making it regular steel. I do know there are other methods for creating stainless, which entail the addition of other elements. Thus, different grades.

Back to grinding....that combined with the salt system _may _be your culprit.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

Yeah, that grinding doesn't sound good.

I've confounded a lot of stainless sales people by pulling out a magnet and asking them why it sticks to their product.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

We took the grinder to it on the advice of the laticrete rep. I hear what you are saying about the stainless. There are a lot of different grades. 

This was a pre-existing problem with the stainless rusting so I am not sure what I can do other than suggest they get rid of their salt system for the pool??


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

angus242 said:


> True.
> 
> 
> One thing I missed:
> ...


 
As far as I know, it's made with certain % of steel / chromium etc. I don't think (although I could be wrong) that there is a protective layer.


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## gallerytungsten (Jul 5, 2007)

angus242 said:


> True.
> 
> 
> One thing I missed:
> ...


Angus is on the right track here.

First, stainless can rust. Chemical exposure was likely the problem previously.

When you grind down stainless, you have to "passivate" it to create a new protective layer. (Note, this doesn't make it "regular steel" - it just leaves it more vulnerable.)

Here is some Google Assistance:
http://www.google.com/search?q=how+...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

Well, I went and looked at the hot tub today and there is about 4-5 spots, right at the edge of the grout and tub. Each spot is about an inch wide. I think Angus, you may be right - I think these are probably spots that got roughed up in the process of prepping the tub. I have told them the next time they clean it I will come and polish those spots.

Thanks for the help gentlemen!!


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Deleted... 

Referred to a post from a user who was removed.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

jarvis design said:


> 2 weeks ago I did a strange job - I re-tiled a stainless steel hot tub.
> 
> Whoever did it in the first place used sanded grout which was one of the problems - it kept falling off. The other problem was how the tile was set - the radius trim pieces were not really proper and they also kept coming off.
> 
> ...


 
Beautiful work Jarvis.

You might look here:

http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html#3

I'm curious what you used to grind the old tile & mortar off. Is it possible some metal dust from the tools & grinding was left and that's what is rusting?


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

Trying to clean up this thread. Let's keep the insults to yourselves. There is no place for that here. Thanks.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Screw that jerk.

I was going to let you handle him for your own satisfaction, but 20 posts made and already a slough of Reports on him.

Grow Up and take your hand off your magic wand.

Ed


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I am so disappointed I missed all the fireworks!!


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Yes, you missed it. I'm sure you would have had more than a few things to say had you been around. 

Seems a common thread with guys who come on new to the forums and expect instant credibility. The minute you ask them to give their background or defend their point of view...they freak out. 

I wish they would have kept his posts though... he was a funny guy. :laughing:


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

One thing I learned growing up, was to have respect for other peoples property.

You guys on your own could have and would have handled him well enough on your own, but when you first come into someone else's house, (Nathans Forum), it was just barking up the wrong tree to start calling him some names.

My patience is thin for someone who learned no respect for others at all.

Ed


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Back on topic:
1) Stainless steel is an alloy. As such, it does not have any layer such as chromium on its outermost portion. All elements are distributed evenly

2) It is very common for grinding to introduce other elements onto a stainless surface. In steel fabrication, the grinding disks used on stainless are not used for any other metal, for fear of cross contamination. Did you use specific wheels, or wheels that had been used on ferrous metals previously?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Back on topic:
> 1) Stainless steel is an alloy. As such, it does not have any layer such as chromium on its outermost portion. All elements are distributed evenly


That's good to know. I would have assumed the same myself but I read the same website that Chris referred to and maybe I misunderstood FAQ #1
http://www.ssina.com/faq/index.html#1

Thanks for the clarification!


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## painter213 (Nov 2, 2008)

Anti-Wingnut is on to a good question. What kind of wheel did you use to grind the stainless? Some people have made the mistake to use steel wool or a steel wire brush on stainless and this is where there problems with the stainless began. Let us know what you used. Good Luck.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

First Off, Thanks Chris for the link - very helpfull and informative.

As for what we ground with, we used your run of the mill sanding disk (80 grit)

One thing I might have not mentioned, the original installation used epoxy thinset and I ended up using my plumbers torch to heat the tiles to release the "glue". We then ground off the residue.

I am wondering what type of stainless the fabricators used?? I am going to see if I can find out.

Thanks again

Mike Jarvis


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## CaseyJones (Jul 22, 2009)

*stainless steel rusting*

Stainless steel is an alloy. There are many grades. The 400 series does rust. Stainless relies on an oxide surface which it forms from exposure to oxygen for protection. Sand it and you remove the protection but it will reform IF it is exposed to air.


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## CaseyJones (Jul 22, 2009)

*stainless steel rusting*

Stainless steel is an alloy. There are many grades. The 400 series does rust. Stainless relies on an oxide surface which it forms from exposure to oxygen for protection. Sand it and you remove the protection but the steel will reform the protective layer IF it is exposed to air. By tiling over I think you may have prevented the layer from re forming. 
I would re grout and seal the grout or use a silicone sealant.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Since we're resurrecting an old post...How did it turn out Jarvis?


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

funny enough, it was a 'magic eraser' that saved the day, for now.About once every couple of weeks they scrub any spots that are showing. they havn't called me back since, but I will go and have look to see how it looks


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