# Haven't had one of these in a while



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

A client of mine was emailing her neighbor who is a prospective client.
Have a look at what she had to say about me:

"Hi Jane-
I am on the road, I e-mailed James to contact you with his information as I don't have it with me.

He is AWESOME. His knowledge, and work is impeccable.
He also installed a completely new water heater system for me as My tank water heater (2nd one) was failing again.
He is on the high end of plumbers, be he is not a plumber but a plumbing engineer of the finest. 
I have not used my new water softener, as it is being installed this week.
But I can tell you the tankless on demand Noritz system is absolutely superb. His work is absolutely the finest.
You will LOVE the on demand system."


Normally I charge a serious bloddy fortune for what I do and those that can afford it...expect top quality work. So by them simply being happy with the results and everything working as advertized is good enough for me, but these are always nice to get!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Awesome.

That sounds like you have successfully connected with a customer who was looking for exactly what your business offers. Congrats.


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## Handyman Jim (Apr 24, 2008)

This customer would be perfect to include in the testimonials page of your website.Good Job.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

Sweet! You make us all look a little better. Keep it up.

Good Luck
Dave


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

Ok, now I'm curious. Exactly what would a "bloody fortune" be with respect to a Noritz install. What model? Inside or outside install? Venting? How far did you have to run gas/water? How long did it take you?


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

Oh yeah, congrats on the high praise. That's always nice to hear.


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## Song Dog (Feb 3, 2006)

WTG!!! Don't get much better than that. That could turn a bad day into a great day.

In Christ,

Song Dog


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

smellslike$tome said:


> Ok, now I'm curious. Exactly what would a "bloody fortune" be with respect to a Noritz install. What model? Inside or outside install? Venting? How far did you have to run gas/water? How long did it take you?


Thanks for all the kind words everyone!!

Ummm, leme think on this one....

Noritz 9.31 m-n.g.
bout 45' of 1 1/4" csst
pipe is about 5 bucks a foot - terminations are about 40ish ea.
rebuilt the meter make up
all 1" copper work
hammer arrestor 
my secreat recirculation system I put together
venting....ummm maybe 80" total with condensate drip tee
fire stop new flashing on a new roof jack new rain collar and cap
redid some of the line voltage to adapt to my timer / controller setup
this took me 4 days...but they wern't full days and I milked it. It was really hot and I don't like rushing these installs.
I had to open up a wall to run a new gas line...repaired it all...wasn't enough to call my drywall guy.

that was the heater
Just finished the softener today.
Picked up a drain outside, interrupted the 1" main
fixed my Ron the Plumber screw up

this took one full day...as I lost half a day just getting all the parts I needed.

with all mats including that softener....which btw is 1 1/2 cu. yds of rosin and 5 pounds of carbon with a 5600 head...I think the total was around 10-11k.

I have another one that will be similar comming up, but that is a total relocate from inside to garage location. I think my bid was 14 for that one.

And hay, don't let the numbers fool you. It's a tremendous amount of work, and most of that work is not easy. Now, these installs are more of a higher end setup. I listen to the complaints of the client and what in an ideal world they would like to have...than I give it to them. Now the basic home with the smaller tankless with minimal gassing and copper work...usually around 2700 - 3500. Every home is different.

I just finished up a duel tankless setup in a huge home that was the most labor intensive tankless I have ever done. I have the pics....too tired to edit them all up tonight. I gotta trim out a kitchen remod in the morning and the lady is a PITA...wish me luck!


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

You can bet when someone ask who is a good plumber to use, you can but they will mention you. Good for you. :thumbsup:


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

JamesNLA said:


> Thanks for all the kind words everyone!!
> 
> Ummm, leme think on this one....
> 
> ...


 
$2700 - $3500 for a basic tankless water heater install. I say you're a crook, It's contractors like you, that take advantage of people who have more money than good sense. Yes She was happy, but that does not make it right. A good deal is a state of mind and that's all it is. The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy who is just trying to make a living and raise a family. This reminds me of a post a few weeks back where someone stated that their flat rate charge to install a toilet was like $600 and if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400. I know you will shoot back with the fact that you have a lot of expenses and all that other crap, but if you have to charge that kind of money to cover your expenses and make a profit than you are doing something wrong. Let's try and put this is perspective. I don't care how good you think you are or how neat your work is you are installing a freaking water heater OK. :furious:


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

:boxing:


robertc65 said:


> $2700 - $3500 for a basic tankless water heater install. I say you're a crook, It's contractors like you, that take advantage of people who have more money than good sense. Yes She was happy, but that does not make it right. A good deal is a state of mind and that's all it is. The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy who is just trying to make a living and raise a family. This reminds me of a post a few weeks back where someone stated that their flat rate charge to install a toilet was like $600 and if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400. I know you will shoot back with the fact that you have a lot of expenses and all that other crap, but if you have to charge that kind of money to cover your expenses and make a profit than you are doing something wrong. Let's try and put this is perspective. I don't care how good you think you are or how neat your work is you are installing a freaking water heater OK. :furious:


:boxing::boxing:


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## gmp (Feb 23, 2007)

How many will guess why his trade is listed as "Former Electrician"?


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

robertc65 said:


> $2700 - $3500 for a basic tankless water heater install. I say you're a crook, It's contractors like you, that take advantage of people who have more money than good sense. Yes She was happy, but that does not make it right. A good deal is a state of mind and that's all it is. The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy who is just trying to make a living and raise a family. This reminds me of a post a few weeks back where someone stated that their flat rate charge to install a toilet was like $600 and if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400. I know you will shoot back with the fact that you have a lot of expenses and all that other crap, but if you have to charge that kind of money to cover your expenses and make a profit than you are doing something wrong. Let's try and put this is perspective. I don't care how good you think you are or how neat your work is you are installing a freaking water heater OK. :furious:


Robert, you're in MD, and he's in Southern California. Have you worked in Southern CA? Are you aware that the consumer price index for the LA area is 100 points higher than the Wash-Baltimore-N.Va area?

Before you cast stones, you might try to understand why his prices are what they are, instead of arguing both sides of the question in a post, and then casting dispersions. Not too professional.


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## 3Kings Plumbing (Jan 2, 2008)

*Tankless*

Next Tuesday I have to put one in for a meat factory. I'm moving it about 100ft from where the tank use to sit. changing the gas pipe from 1/2 to 3/4 (50ft run) pipe and running about 200ft of pex pipe to the new water heater.
The tankless he picked out has a 7.5 gpm I can't remember the model number I bought for it. I'm charging him $2800.00 have probably a total around $1400.00 in parts and material. But it's going to ba an all day job.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

robertc65 said:


> This reminds me of a post a few weeks back where someone stated that their flat rate charge to install a toilet was like $600 and if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400.


How come I never seen this post, someone post a link to this post.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Ron The Plumber said:


> How come I never seen this post, someone post a link to this post.



Here it is

http://www.contractortalk.com/showt...hlight=flat+rate+charge+install+toilet&page=2


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Here it is
> 
> http://www.contractortalk.com/showt...hlight=flat+rate+charge+install+toilet&page=2


Funny enough when I saw his post I was thinking, he is only charging that?:w00t:

I think I am going to hell

PS: That same Norwitz install would cost me $4800 from my plumber then I would mark it up to the home owner


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

robertc65 said:


> $2700 - $3500 for a basic tankless water heater install. I say you're a crook, It's contractors like you, that take advantage of people who have more money than good sense. Yes She was happy, but that does not make it right. A good deal is a state of mind and that's all it is. The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy who is just trying to make a living and raise a family. This reminds me of a post a few weeks back where someone stated that their flat rate charge to install a toilet was like $600 and if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400. I know you will shoot back with the fact that you have a lot of expenses and all that other crap, but if you have to charge that kind of money to cover your expenses and make a profit than you are doing something wrong. Let's try and put this is perspective. I don't care how good you think you are or how neat your work is you are installing a freaking water heater OK. :furious:


 
I think the nonsense you babble pretty much explains it all. Call me a crook...LOL you have no idea what a crook is. I don't have a lot of expenses nor do I have a lot of overhead. I charge a fair price for a fair job. I enjoy not having to worry if I can make my monthly bills. I am not rich nor am I broke. I do well. Now, maybe I should cut my labor in half so that when my kids want to play softball...daddy can tell them no because we can't afford it. How about braces.....How bout doctor bills...the list goes on and on. I don't expect you to understand very much, but to call me a crook and to say "it's just a freaking water heater" is about as stupid a comment I would expect to hear...even from the real morons on this board....which you proudly are. Grumpy ass mofo.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

....maybe this will help you. That price is all inclusive. The unit Isolation valves ALL materials All labor All taxes. Feel better now, or are you still an idiot?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Hey James, can you please stop undercharging?


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

Good God, I have never in my life EVER been called a crook. In all my time, I had one old lady ***** about my price.....Ya know what Mr. Former electrician just for that I am going to raise the bar in my area. I know the other guys that install these things and I'm calling them up to tell them that we ALL will charge an additional 500 per job. Hopefully it will spread and you will wind up having to pay one of us. 

The nerve of some people....This was sopossed to be a nice fun little thread and mr. de-d-dee screwed it all up...owell!

But I gotta say, between ytesterday and today I earned 1400 for my labor.....That pays for about a 1/3 of my bills and gas for the next 24hrs......


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

JamesNLA said:


> This was sopossed to be a nice fun little thread and mr. de-d-dee screwed it all up...owell!


It is still a fun thread, when my name gets mentioned, it is fun..... :laughing:


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

robertc65 said:


> $2700 - $3500 for a basic tankless water heater install. I say you're a crook, It's contractors like you, that take advantage of people who have more money than good sense. Yes She was happy, but that does not make it right. A good deal is a state of mind and that's all it is. The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy who is just trying to make a living and raise a family. This reminds me of a post a few weeks back where someone stated that their flat rate charge to install a toilet was like $600 and if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400. I know you will shoot back with the fact that you have a lot of expenses and all that other crap, but if you have to charge that kind of money to cover your expenses and make a profit than you are doing something wrong. Let's try and put this is perspective. I don't care how good you think you are or how neat your work is you are installing a freaking water heater OK. :furious:


snicker...


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## 22rifle (Apr 23, 2008)

JamesNLA said:


> Good God, I have never in my life EVER been called a crook. In all my time, I had one old lady ***** about my price.....Ya know what Mr. Former electrician just for that I am going to raise the bar in my area. I know the other guys that install these things and I'm calling them up to tell them that we ALL will charge an additional 500 per job. Hopefully it will spread and you will wind up having to pay one of us.
> 
> The nerve of some people....This was sopossed to be a nice fun little thread and mr. de-d-dee screwed it all up...owell!
> 
> But I gotta say, between ytesterday and today I earned 1400 for my labor.....That pays for about a 1/3 of my bills and gas for the next 24hrs......


You may or may not be a crook. But there is absolutely no evidence of you being one on this thread. In fact, there is plenty evidence to the contrary.

Don't let a "former electrician" and his foolish mouthing off get to you.


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

robertc65 said:


> $2700 - $3500 for a basic tankless water heater install. I say you're a crook, It's contractors like you, that take advantage of people who have more money than good sense. Yes She was happy, but that does not make it right. A good deal is a state of mind and that's all it is. The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy who is just trying to make a living and raise a family. This reminds me of a post a few weeks back where someone stated that their flat rate charge to install a toilet was like $600 and if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400. I know you will shoot back with the fact that you have a lot of expenses and all that other crap, but if you have to charge that kind of money to cover your expenses and make a profit than you are doing something wrong. Let's try and put this is perspective. I don't care how good you think you are or how neat your work is you are installing a freaking water heater OK. :furious:


"She was happy, but that does not make it right" - Yes it does.

"who have more money", "The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy" - This is the real problem. You are a communist. You are not entitled to tankless technology. If you want a tankless unit and cannot afford it then you need to either go earn some more money so that you can afford it or do without. 

"if the flange has to be replace it was an additional $400" - I wonder if you have any clue as to what is involved in replacing a feces covered toilet flange/riser. Is it pvc or cast iron? Is it slab, crawl, basement, or ceiling below? How much should I be "allowed" to make for removing your pee soaked toilet and repairing/replacing your broken drainage system? What is the correct number, since you know so much?

"if you have to charge that kind of money to cover your expenses and make a profit than you are doing something wrong." - You're ignorance is astounding and while I certainly would not think ill of you for simply being ignorant, I would think ill of you for being ignorant while running your mouth as if you actually knew something about it. I want you to justify your statement or issue a public apology and then shut your mouth.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Let me remind everyone here that although someone else may have cast the first stone, as it were, that does not exempt you from following and abiding by the terms of service and posting rules for this site. 

Keep it professional or take it to PMs.


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

JamesNLA said:


> I think the nonsense you babble pretty much explains it all. Call me a crook...LOL you have no idea what a crook is. I don't have a lot of expenses nor do I have a lot of overhead. I charge a fair price for a fair job. I enjoy not having to worry if I can make my monthly bills. I am not rich nor am I broke. I do well. Now, maybe I should cut my labor in half so that when my kids want to play softball...daddy can tell them no because we can't afford it. How about braces.....How bout doctor bills...the list goes on and on. I don't expect you to understand very much, but to call me a crook and to say "it's just a freaking water heater" is about as stupid a comment I would expect to hear...even from the real morons on this board....which you proudly are. Grumpy ass mofo.


 
James, 

I apologise for calling you a crook. Sometimes I just get pissed when I hear comments like these couple you made in this post.

"Normally I charge a serious bloddy fortune for what I do and those that can afford it...expect top quality work. So by them simply being happy with the results and everything working as advertized is good enough for me, but these are always nice to get!"

"this took me 4 days...but they wern't full days and I milked it. "

As far as me being a Grumpy ass mofo, yea sometimes I get that way, but mostly I'm pretty easy going. As far as being a complete moron, I understand more about what is involved in an install like the one you describe here more than you think. I stand by my comment that "it's just a freaking water heater". Yes it's a tankless and you have a recirc loop or two so the poor homeowner won't have to suffer through 15 seconds of cold water when it's 1st turned on. I understand that you did more than just swap out one old water heater for another, but nothing you did was in any way extraordinary. I'm sure the homeowner regards you as some sort of genius, but that does not make you one. 

The real reason these sort of posts get my goat is because I don't run with a money crowd, My friends and family are good hardworking people who have to be very careful how they spend their money. One message I hear over and over on these forums is how if you hire a good contractor you will get what you pay for and it will cost you less in the long run. Compared to having a total hack replace your hot water heater or toilet I may agree, but what are people like my sister supposed to do when she needs a new toilet. Is she making the right decision by spending 1K to have her $120 homedepot toilet replaced? That's more than 3 weeks pay for her. I know you did not post the message about a 1K toilet install, but I'm just using it as an example. 

I really have no problem at all with someone who has plenty of money paying you 2700 to 3500 for hotwater, and if you choose to work for only wealthy people that's fine also, I'm not saying you should feel guilty, but how does someone like my sister go about getting her hot water heater or toilet replaced? I'll tell you if it were not for me helping when I can, She would end up paying some hack and it may or may not be right when he is done. 

As far as affording doctors bills and all the other stuff, She is a cook working 60 hours a week, when her son wants to play football She has to sacrifice something else, She can't just charge a customer a higher rate because She feels that She wants to live a higher lifestyle. Same for me, If I want to life a higher live style I would have to either get another job or work a lot more hours than I do now, I can't just pass on my extra personal expenses to a customer. 

Again I'm sorry for calling you a "crook" it was a bad choice, I was just in a bad mood at the time. 

later

Rob


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

JamesNLA said:


> Good God, I have never in my life EVER been called a crook. In all my time, I had one old lady ***** about my price.....Ya know what Mr. Former electrician just for that I am going to raise the bar in my area. I know the other guys that install these things and I'm calling them up to tell them that we ALL will charge an additional 500 per job. Hopefully it will spread and you will wind up having to pay one of us.
> 
> The nerve of some people....This was sopossed to be a nice fun little thread and mr. de-d-dee screwed it all up...owell!
> 
> But I gotta say, between ytesterday and today I earned 1400 for my labor.....That pays for about a 1/3 of my bills and gas for the next 24hrs......


WOW
Are you trying to say that your expenses are $4200 / day? Did I read that right?


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

smellslike$tome said:


> "She was happy, but that does not make it right" - Yes it does.
> 
> "who have more money", "The problem with this is that it ends up driving up the cost for the normal guy" - This is the real problem. You are a communist. You are not entitled to tankless technology. If you want a tankless unit and cannot afford it then you need to either go earn some more money so that you can afford it or do without.
> 
> ...


Yes I have replaced several toilets in my day and it's a dirty stinky job. Stop your whinning and wash your hands. In the real world people usually get paid less for the dirty jobs. I wonder what the guy that keeps our bathroom clean at work gets paid?

Also I'm OK with someone who has money spending it on whatever they wish. I'm not a communist. I just sometimes think you guys just get a little to cockey. 


I guess I really struck a nerve with you, Sorry to have ruffled your feathers. You make a lot of stink about how replacing a toilet flange is not always an easy task. I'm not quite the idiot you think I am, I know it's not always easy, but just because sometimes there are problems, does that mean that the typical PVC 30 minute flange job should cost the customer $400 bucks. I guess this could bring on another argument about flat rate vs hourly, but I don't want to go there, it has already been discussed plenty in other threads.

OK I'm out of time. Got to get back to work.

Rob


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

feels great, doesnt it? good job


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