# How long to waterproof typical shower with kerdi.



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Took me a full day and I'm wondering if I'm slow. I haven't done a tile shower since last summer and was thinking I could bust out the waterproofing in a strong half day. Way wrong. 

36"x48" shower using kerdi system. One large niche and one corner seat. Everything was ready to go beginning of day today. 

Would you allot a whole day to waterproofing for one guy?


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

That's about what I take/plan for. The niches and seats are time suckers. I can see why some guys are doing Kerdi on the base and liquid everywhere else.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

If I remember right this one took me about 6-7 hours...one niche, 3'x3'. That included setting the foam base. 

I did have a small corner shelf I added later that took about 45 min to attach and Kerdi.

Curious where others fall timing wise because I too feel a little slow.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

I think I'm usually around a day as well. Depends on the scope but also depends on if that's all I'm doing which is rarely the case.

We do such variety that some days I'm there by myself or with one person and other days it's at a whole house remodel and I'm managing several guys so obviously that would take longer.

I certainly prefer the Kerdi board to drywall with Kerdi on top. It's an overall faster process.

I also feel slow when doing it but I'd guess I do 4-6 a year right now so it's nothing I will blow you away with. After attending the Schluter workshop's, I was going a good bit faster just because of help with technique.


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## jengebretson (Aug 16, 2012)

I have been averaging a day for a Schluter shower. Wish that I had better access to Wedi products. It would cut my time down significantly.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

jengebretson said:


> I have been averaging a day for a Schluter shower. Wish that I had better access to Wedi products. It would cut my time down significantly.


Is it faster than Kerdi board?


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## jengebretson (Aug 16, 2012)

I use kerdi board frequently. The two wedi that I have done, it was 50% faster. It offsets the higher cost of the wedi board and pan. I also like their drain attachment better.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

This thread makes me feel better. A clean job seems to take the better part of a day when there are niches and whatnot. I finally did a kerdi board shower though and it is faster, especially if you factor in savings on hanging drywall. The corners are super sharp too if you break the boards elsewhere.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Can't seem to justify the expense of kerdi board. $50 for a 4x4 sheet is ridiculous.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Can't seem to justify the expense of kerdi board. $50 for a 4x4 sheet is ridiculous.


Full sheets are a little better and the install will have fewer seams.


Sure it's ~$3/sf, but I can haul a whole shower's worth with one hand in one trip, install, and get a good start on tiling in a one day. Kerdi membrane over drywall is almost the same cost but takes longer to install.

It's also cool, you can spot adhere it to the old substrate, or drywall, to make walls perfectly flat with no sistering studs, shaving and shimming.

I used to do all liquid but I got tired of cement board and the added steps.

It'd be interesting to do a cost comparison factoring in time and materials.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Can't seem to justify the expense of kerdi board. $50 for a 4x4 sheet is ridiculous.



We use the 4x8. Time is money. I like them.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Golden view said:


> This thread makes me feel better. A clean job seems to take the better part of a day when there are niches and whatnot. I finally did a kerdi board shower though and it is faster, especially if you factor in savings on hanging drywall. The corners are super sharp too if you break the boards elsewhere.



When you say break the boards elsewhere, are you getting at cutting through one side and breaking the board but not cutting the other face and having a flat seam vs a corner?

Or to put it differently, are you wrapping the corner with Kerdi board?


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> When you say break the boards elsewhere, are you getting at cutting through one side and breaking the board but not cutting the other face and having a flat seam vs a corner?
> 
> Or to put it differently, are you wrapping the corner with Kerdi board?


Yes, wrapping the corner with Kerdi board. The seams fall on a stud not in the corner, at least if it's convenient to do it that way.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

I factor in a day for any waterproofing of a shower. They almost all have a niche, so framing that in and whatnot it takes times.
I also prefer the Kerdi-board over the membrane. The speed and ease of installing it is too good to pass up. A nice trick I picked up when tiling up to an existing drywall ceiling is to squeeze Kerdi fix along the top edge of the board before you hang it. If you're careful when you put it on, it creates a nice seal between the ceiling and wall.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

An 8-9 hour day for a 3x4 shower with Kerdi, 4-5 hours with Kerdi board.

I do not find Wedi any faster, you have to rabbet joints and seal all the corners, seams and penetrations. 

Tom


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## jengebretson (Aug 16, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> An 8-9 hour day for a 3x4 shower with Kerdi, 4-5 hours with Kerdi board.
> 
> I do not find Wedi any faster, you have to rabbet joints and seal all the corners, seams and penetrations.
> 
> Tom




Are you gluing your kerdi board on or using fasteners? 



If you are using fasteners, all the treatments to seams penetrations and joints are similar. I find that it is quicker to run a bead of sealant than it is to use kerdi band, plus not as much buildup at the schluter pan, wall, curb connection. 



It goes really quick with a cordless sausage gun. You also don't have to glue the drain to the pvc (on a remodel), and you don't have to waterproof the pan with kerdi membrane. The only rabbet you cut is the pan to wall connection, and pan extensions.



I also hate cutting the kerdi band for the fasteners.



Each individual is different in their preferences and speed. I just like the Wedi better overall if I have a choice. Most of the work I have been doing lately is just labor only for a builder. He supplies the materials and loves Schluter


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

jengebretson said:


> Are you gluing your kerdi board on or using fasteners?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was told at the last class that sometime in the near future, the pans and curbs with come with Kerdi already on them. That will speed things up a bit.

Also, when cutting Kerdi band for the patches, wrap it around your hand like toilet paper (not that I wrap toilet paper around my hand like this but that's how it was described) and then take scissors and make two cuts and you get a bunch of patches.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

jengebretson said:


> Are you gluing your kerdi board on or using fasteners?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fasteners with the washer. I prefer the Kerdi band to the caulk. Find it a pain to tool the caulk, just a gooy mess for me. 

I've heard the build up complaint before, not a problem I have when installing the bands. Regular Kerdi band is 0.004" thick, at the corners with the build you might be 0.012" thick. There are tricks to getting the band installed correctly, I use 2 6" broad knifes.

Cutting the band with scissors is really easy.

I've used the Oakley drains, the no-caulk feature is nice. Never had an issue with glueing the Schluter drain. 

I agree it all comes down to what we're used to using. 

Tom


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

USG is coming out with a product that's a foamboard at a much more user friendly price point. The seams get taped like Kerdi. No washers needed. I don't know if they have a floor/drain setup yet.

I use foamboard glue behind wedi in some spots to level or add strength while reducing fasteners, like at a niche.

I still use which ever product is right for a particular job. Wedi-like products really reduce the mess in a room, less worry about carrying stuff upstairs and scratching something and instant waterproofing.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I always wondered if this stuff is even worth it.

How long has it been around?


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> No need to mud. Fibafuse and AD.



Rob it's been a while since I've hung out in the tile section. Refresh me on what method you've been using. Is liquid your system of choice?


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

when I use liquids, I thinset the corners, seams and nailheads. I know some of you use the fibermesh for corners and seams but I trust thinset more. Then I spot liquid the seams and nail heads. Then the whole board gets coated.

First coat dries within an hour usually. Second coat can take 2-3 hours depending on temp/humidity. I don't use a fan directly on the walls as I think it only dries the liquids surface and leaves just below uncured. Getting on the wall too soon re-wets an uncured membrane,imo. By the time I cbd the wall, and get to the second coat that's the day. There is no "we."


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I went full circle with showers when I gave a ****. Ended with dry pre slope drypack full liquid.
> 
> The kerdi board isnt strong enough between 16oc imo. I started run 1/2 ply first and full gluing before I woke up and said f that...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


Wedi is cement coated on both sides which gives it rigidity. The USG product I mentioned seems to have a denser foam and sturdy plastic-like skin. 

A first layer of plywood? I understand why you switched.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Anyone seen this yet? I am tempted to try it...

https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...ht-waterproof-tile-backer-board/p-2363329.htm


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I do a kerdi pan.





gbruzze1 said:


> You red guarded the shower pan instead of doing a traditional pan liner? Red guard over the pitched mud floor?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Kerdi pan, still has to wait for the seams/joints to fully cure. Flood test is at minimum overnight.

I used the mesh RG at the joints.

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

overanalyze said:


> Anyone seen this yet? I am tempted to try it...
> 
> https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...ht-waterproof-tile-backer-board/p-2363329.htm


60 sheet minimum order according to the link.

Tom


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> 60 sheet minimum order according to the link.
> 
> Tom


Stocked at my local Menards. It feels pretty ridgid. Has a fiberglass type facing.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I went to the Remodeling Show, there are so many different products out there now it's crazy.

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

overanalyze said:


> Stocked at my local Menards. It feels pretty ridgid. Has a fiberglass type facing.


Must not be stocked at the closest store to me. 

Wedi has a 3/4" thick pan that sits on the joists.....you have to infill between the joists.

Tom


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> No need to mud. Fibafuse and AD.


Maybe I'm having a brain fart but what's AD?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Golden view said:


> Maybe I'm having a brain fart but what's AD?


I believe Rob is referring to Mapie Aqua Defense.

Tom


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> I believe Rob is referring to Mapie Aqua Defense.
> 
> Tom


Oh right. I forgot about that one. RG, HB, AD.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

olzo55 said:


> when I use liquids, I thinset the corners, seams and nailheads. I know some of you use the fibermesh for corners and seams but I trust thinset more. Then I spot liquid the seams and nail heads. Then the whole board gets coated.
> 
> First coat dries within an hour usually. Second coat can take 2-3 hours depending on temp/humidity. I don't use a fan directly on the walls as I think it only dries the liquids surface and leaves just below uncured. Getting on the wall too soon re-wets an uncured membrane,imo. By the time I cbd the wall, and get to the second coat that's the day. There is no "we."


You should try the we, makes the job so much faster and easier.


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

Tile is my main thing. I do anywhere from 2-4 showers a month so I may be a bit faster. I use Schluter exclusively. Foam pan, Kerdi over drywall. If the seats aren't already framed in I use Kerdi board for the seats. By myself I can waterproof a shower start to finish in 3-4 hrs. If I have to pack a partial pan for larger showers I have to come back and install the band and Kerdi on the base. If I have a helper I usually figure a half day to install base, drain, Kerdi on walls and pack pan and set curb on a 6x8 shower. 

I haven't used wedi so I don't have anything to compare to.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> An 8-9 hour day for a 3x4 shower with Kerdi, 4-5 hours with Kerdi board.
> 
> I do not find Wedi any faster, you have to rabbet joints and seal all the corners, seams and penetrations.
> 
> Tom



I have only had to rabbet the shower tray a couple times where opening was already there. When I do the framing I don't need to cut the pan at all. 

I can do the Wedi kit way faster than the Kerdi on drywall/CBU but not used Kerdi board as its too much money compared to Wedi here. All special order where as I can walk in a buy Wedi of the shelf. 

But either way I just schedule a day in the estimate no matter if it takes 4hrs or 8hrs


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Be soooo careful with wedi pans. Any caulk joint below the tile floor is really scary


Kerdi board flexes a lot ....anyone else notice that?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

AGullion said:


> Be soooo careful with wedi pans. Any caulk joint below the tile floor is really scary
> 
> 
> Kerdi board flexes a lot ....anyone else notice that?


I assume it stiffens up when tiled similar to the plastic niche pans that are has hard as a rock when tiled.

I am seriously considering Kerdi Board after getting some pricing from a supplier. I am also thinking about going Ditra as well.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

The flex when setting messes with my flatness. 

We have a board here called prova ...it is great ...similar to wedi , very stiff. Duroc is introducing one also.

Ditra is a really nice product . As far as crack prevention , nothing comes close .
The only concern I have is the new, impregnated moisture resistant subfloors aren't really great to bond it to, they are somewhat waxy.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I assume it stiffens up when tiled similar to the plastic niche pans that are has hard as a rock when tiled.
> 
> I am seriously considering Kerdi Board after getting some pricing from a supplier. I am also thinking about going Ditra as well.


It seems plenty stiff once tiled. It really is nice to work with.

I love Ditra. Can't stand to use CBU. Using the right trowel size to see the Ditra is very important or you won't have good success with the install.
Also much looser thinset. Should be able to pour out of the bucket.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> It seems plenty stiff once tiled. It really is nice to work with.
> 
> I love Ditra. Can't stand to use CBU. Using the right trowel size to see the Ditra is very important or you won't have good success with the install.
> Also much looser thinset. Should be able to pour out of the bucket.


I took a Schluter class so I have ask the trowels.


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