# New computer - I could use your input



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

I’m in the market for a new computer. While I know how to use the thing, I don’t know much about how they work or what I need – So I’m tapping you guys for some info. I will have the thing built at a local shop and would like to know what to tell them I need/want.

I’ve decided I will go with a desktop unit. My current laptop hasn’t moved in 3 years.

I currently use:
•	Office
•	Evernote
•	Dropbox
•	Itunes
•	Adobe Lightroom 5
•	Adobe Elements 9
•	Home Designer Pro (see Chief Architect below)
•	I don’t do any gaming of any sort.

Current Hardware configuration:
•	I’m currently hardwired to the router (just a bit faster than wireless)
•	I’m currently hardwired to the printer (more reliable)
•	I run sound out of the laptop to the stereo.
•	I have a 24” monitor/HD TV (see monitors below)
•	Wireless mouse and keyboard 
•	I have a CD/DVD/Blue ray drive that I think I’ve used a few times to read CD’s in.
•	I have a SD card slot for moving pictures from the camera.


Will be adding to the new unit:
•	Upgrading from Home Designer to full version of Chief Architect.
•	I would like to have 2 – 24” monitors – I have no clue what it takes to do this.
•	Because I’m so hardwired I will want more USB ports – I currently only have three and occasionally need to unplug things to plug in other things. 

Am I missing things?
Am I being short sighted on anything?
Are there parts, manufactures, minimums I should specify for RAM, video, graphics, etc.?

Thanks, 

Paul


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

The biggest speed improvement you can do is to get an SSD drive. They are amazing.


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

JBM said:


> The biggest speed improvement you can do is to get an SSD drive. They are amazing.


You can get a small one to save money and load you OS and all your programs onto it but store photos, music, etc on a regular drive. I have a samsung 840pro 128GB. My computer usually boots in 14 sec.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> I’m in the market for a new computer. While I know how to use the thing, I don’t know much about how they work or what I need – So I’m tapping you guys for some info. I will have the thing built at a local shop and would like to know what to tell them I need/want.
> 
> I’ve decided I will go with a desktop unit. My current laptop hasn’t moved in 3 years.
> 
> ...



Biggest question here is budget.

as an example here's my most recent build. Would prob suit you perfectly.

Motherboard ASUS SABERTOOTH Z87 - $239
CPU Core i7-4470k - $337
ram Corsair vengance pro 16gb ddr3 - $182
primary SSD Samsung 840 pro 256gb - $189
Storage drive Seagate 4TB - $162
1000W PSU - $150 (you dont have to have a PSU like this 1 600w should work fine)
Geforce GTX660 - $180 (i run 3 monitors on this setup but i would def go with a better card
Case - Thermaltake level 10 - $223
monitors 3 x HP 2311x $189ea (you can get the 2511x for that price now)

roughly $2200 but it will be system that will last you quite a few OS changes.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> You can get a small one to save money and load you OS and all your programs onto it but store photos, music, etc on a regular drive. I have a samsung 840pro 128GB. My computer usually boots in 14 sec.


Should have bought the 256gb model. its faster and has double the space for about $60 more.


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

JBM said:


> The biggest speed improvement you can do is to get an SSD drive. They are amazing.


When you say “speed improvement” are you talking about getting renderings and photo enhancements faster? That’s what I would like to see.


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Biggest question here is budget.
> 
> as an example here's my most recent build. Would prob suit you perfectly.
> 
> ...


I was thinking I would have to spend about $2500. So your set-up (less monitors – I already have two) comes in at about $1800. That makes me happy :thumbup:

Does any of the stuff in your configuration address speed for rendering in Chief and the Adobe needs? Do I need anything like a graphics card – or is this already there?


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

BCConstruction said:


> Should have bought the 256gb model. its faster and has double the space for about $60 more.


I know I could have. But you know that budget word... Lol. Plus I won't fill mine up with software anyway. I don't do any of the design work right now, don't game, etc. It does everything I need it to and more. Coming from a gateway laptop that was $600 4 years ago, this PC is a vast improvement.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> I was thinking I would have to spend about $2500. So your set-up (less monitors &#150; I already have two) comes in at about $1800. That makes me happy :thumbup: Does any of the stuff in your configuration address speed for rendering in Chief and the Adobe needs? Do I need anything like a graphics card &#150; or is this already there?


That setup is pretty high end in specs and brands. You could add a GTX780 graphics card which if CA uses hardware based acceleration could make a massive difference in rendering times. You could bump ram to 32gb at not much cost too and still be below your budget.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Biggest question here is budget.
> 
> as an example here's my most recent build. Would prob suit you perfectly.
> 
> ...


That's a nice build but i'd do 2x hdd in a raid 1.


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Inner – could you say that in English for me please


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> That's a nice build but i'd do 2x hdd in a raid 1.


I was going to but thought I would try the one drive on its own. Was more than happy with the performance with just the one drive. I have no idea of throughput with 2 of them drives I raid either. Stick its 500/500 roughly.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Inner &#150; could you say that in English for me please


Lol basically its 2 drives connected into one drive to make it faster. It can get much more complicated than that but that's one thing that raid does.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Also if you want to get some more performance from the high speed ram and CPU you could ask the shop to do a overclock. I'm running a corsair hydro series water cooling on the CPU and I'm at a stable 4.5ghz and much higher bandwith. That motherboard has a system where you can do it your self and it will get you to about 4.2ghz with its auto settings. Its a free way to get done extra punch in the system.


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Lol basically its 2 drives connected into one drive to make it faster. It can get much more complicated than that but that's one thing that raid does.


And all this time I thought raid killed bugs !


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> And all this time I thought raid killed bugs !


Lol your builder shop should know their stuff. Just don't let them build you a system with stuff off the shelf as most of the time it's all low spec gear . Unless you have a cool shop near you that stocks the better kit.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Inner – could you say that in English for me please


It stands for redundant array of inexpensive discs, a raid one has two discs that mirror eachother. I don't care for the increase in speed I use it for the redundancy in case of a disc failure, I always use cases with hot-swap bays and make sure you can enable hot swap on the bios of your motherboard if it uses on-board raid controller.

BCC has a nice build but you can trim that down considerably without sacrificing the world. 

i5 processor instead of i7 save a hundred bucks.
Ram is cheap but 16 is a little overkill.
Primary SSD for OS TOTALLY!
Get two cheap $60 1TB drives and raid them for storage. :thumbsup:
1000W platinum grade PS is overkill unless you have a million HDDs and external graphics card, you can save 100 bucks right there...but don't go cheap on your PS they haven't changed much over the years.
I wouldn't go crazy on the graphics card like BC...but I wouldn't cheap out.

Here's the deal with computers, the mainstream products are always the best value, the leading edge stuff is always going to cost you more with diminishing returns...walk into a computer store and pick out the parts that are currently on sale. Most computer stores charge 50-75 bucks for a build which is a freaking bargain considering it will take you 2-3 hours.


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

That's a lot of computer for a non gamer, though rendering probably uses just as much power. So if you have the extra dough, then I would spend as much as you can on the proper gear and it will last you a long time. For what you do, that set-up listed above will probably last you 5-8 years.

I'm on 5 years with mine and I spent what I could afford and it was top shelf stuff, but not the very top end. Heck, I'm still slumming it with 4 Gig of Ram. :whistling I can still run most games at a good frame rate. Photo editing is also pretty speedy.

I would probably split my storage drives though. Lose one at 4 TB and you're screwed, or 1 at 2 TB and still have another one that auto back ups and you're safe.

Oh, and BC, I now hate you. :jester: I am now looking at a new build as I feel way inadequate with my system after poking through yours. The new AMD stuff looks pretty nice as well. :whistling AMD fan boy here. :clap::clap:

Good thing I'm broke, as my wife hates it when I suggest a ride up to Fry's. I'll probably have to settle for more RAM. :laughing:

Edit: Inner said pretty much what my first thoughts were. However, once I get looking at computer stuff, all I can think of is more power. Especially when it is someone else spending the money. :laughing:


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

It is hard to say when to stop with a build. A good Graphics card can cost you. $800-$1200 but a. $150 works well unless you want full settings on games like crysis. I only use a. 1000w PSU because I have a lot if drives running and intended on doing dual sli graphic cards but was pretty impressed with the. GC I have. Get a good quality case too. hot swap bays are nice. I have a external dock and put my backup drives in a safe.


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Does any of the stuff in your configuration address speed for rendering in Chief and the Adobe needs? Do I need anything like a graphics card – or is this already there?


16gb ram is good.

Rendering in monitor 1Gb video card for better view port performance.
Rendering to File (raytracing) Fast multi core / threaded processor chip on a 64Bit system is where the power comes from. Ram used to be a limiting factor, but 16gb of ram takes a lot to use that much rendering.

Adobe products you're using, way beyond covered at BC's suggestions


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> It's them who says that cards bigger than 1gb can help.
> 
> "Most rendering is performed by the video card.
> 
> ...


Most if not all 3D applications' viewports are scaled back or approximations of from final render (image render engine) quality. Making them much more responsive for 3D creation in their perspective applications. Puts a heavier load on Open Gl (as an example) display vs trying for a perfect CPU rendering. It's a tradeoff done by the application between cpu and leveraging the ability of a graphics card to "closely" mirror the full blown CPU render engine based method. Still getting a rapid quality response while modeling and most important time wise, render settings.

With the software that can model, texture & render 3D the 2 Gig 256, DDR5 is more than adequate for most any residential project out of a cad/3D program. What I've seen most people do in CA a beginner to early intermediate probably won't notice much of a difference between 1 and 2 gigs GPU Cards on an i7 machine.

Some heavy lifting 3D apps, Modo, C4D, 3D max, AutoCad Architecture all perform about the same video display wise on my Lap top i7-2670qm 2.20ghz 8 gig ram with a GeForce 540M Video Card, 1.5 Gig 128 DDR3 and Workstation i7-2600K 3.4ghz 16gig ram video Radeon HD6950 2gig, 256 DDR5. Final Image Render ('raster' not viewport) times on exact same scenes differ by around 15-20% time wise and quite honestly can't feel a difference in the viewport display-responsiveness. Scenes that take 30-45 minutes to render a single image frame to file. Lots of good old high anti aliased raytracing and healthy texture map use 2k or better applied to every thing visible, reflections, refraction, GI, Environment lighting, Soft Shadows, Sun light, area lighting....Not square box simple polygonal modeling as much of the CAD/3D stuff tends to be right out of the parametric box, so to speak.


Hair splitting, overly simplified semantics and hydrant pissing aside....
i7 with as many threaded cores as you can afford, 16 gig of ram and at least 1 gig 128 DDr3 GPU Card, 2 gig 256 DDR5 what's $100


----------



## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Texas Wax said:


> Hair splitting, overly simplified semantics and hydrant pissing aside....
> i7 with as many threaded cores as you can afford, 16 gig of ram and at least 1 gig 128 DDr3 GPU Card, 2 gig 256 DDR5 what's $100


I concur.

Nearly the same thing BC has said as well.


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

At least no one has said get a Mac.:whistling


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

VinylHanger said:


> At least no one has said get a Mac.:whistling


:jester: same basic discussion, less options AND just mo money


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

VinylHanger said:


> At least no one has said get a Mac.:whistling


Lol this thread would have gone out the window if that happened


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm in the same boat Davinci ...
I use my laptop now 2.7 ghz processor, 500gig HD 2 gig of memory ....my biggest concern is it's getting to that age when hard drives can crash and when that happens I am not getting a new HD. I save all my data on a auxiliary HD and the back up for the laptop on there as well.

My concern is getting a PC that I can update with enough room to do so. I am not a gamer so getting a machine that has all the bells and whistles isn't important to me. I was more interested in the CPU , the GPU (graphics card) the memory and the power supply. Inner gave me some information on the Haswell I7 processor I was interested in.....I guess this is going to be the new socket setup on the MB as well.

This is what I am looking at currently for $790.00 and I think I am going to get it - no tax, free shipping.
Dell Optiplex 9020 mini tower

INTEL "HASWELL" i7-4770s

AMD Radeon HD 8490 (1GB) Video

Windows 7 Pro

Dell Wireless Keyboard & Mouse included


General Spec
Brand
DELL
Series
OptiPlex
Model
9020 MT 
Type
Business Desktops & Workstations
Form Factor
Mini Tower
Usage
Business
Processor
Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz
Processor Main Features
64 bit Quad-Core Processor
Cache Per Processor
8MB L3 Cache
Memory
8GB DDR3 1600
Hard Drive
500GB 
Optical Drive 1
16X DVD+/-RW
Graphics
AMD Radeon HD 8490 1GB
Ethernet
Gigabit Ethernet
Power Supply
290W
Operating System
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

CPU
CPU Type
Intel Core i7
CPU Speed
4770 (3.40GHz)
L3 Cache Per CPU
8MB
CPU Socket Type
LGA 1150
CPU Main Features
64 bit Quad-Core Processor

Graphics
GPU/VGA Type
AMD Radeon HD 8490

Memory
Memory Capacity
8GB DDR3
Memory Speed
DDR3 1600
Form Factor
DIMM 240-pin
Memory Spec
4GB x 2
Maximum Memory Supported
32GB

Optical Drive

Optical Drive Type
DVD+R/RW
Optical Drive Spec
16X DVD+/-RW

Expansion
PCI Slots (Available/Total)
1 full height PCIe x16
1 full height PCIe x16 (wired x 4)
1 full height PCIe x1
1 full height PCI

Physical Spec
Dimensions
16.4" x 14.2" x 6.9"
Weight
20.70 lbs.



My thoughts about computers,..... The way things are evolving, you spend a few thousand on a real powerful PC and the 6 months later it's already behind technology . I would love to have a real powerhouse but it just doesn't make much sense to me, I am not into it enough to want to keep updating hardware. All I want is a machine that's just a knoch up and will run my cad programs smoothly , such as CA. I am running version. 10.8 on windows 7- 64 bit


Hope all goes well for you....with so many options it can become a little overwhelming.....I can relate Davinci.....


B,:thumbsup:


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Again, thanks a bunch for your time and knowledge. 

I spent a lot of time this morning researching all the stuff and have put together the following order. If I missed something let me know.

Here’s a link to the order.

http://www.amazon.com/Scholastic-Dr...&qid=1390149031&sr=8-10&keywords=drafting+kit


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:laughing:




That was funny....:clap:..:laughing:



Sometimes it is easier to do the old school , I use my Vemco 612 from time to time.....

This is the model I have..http://www.ebay.com/itm/VEMCO-612-d...efaultDomain_0&hash=item56608df45a...(listing is not mine) , I love it..:clap:


But CAD is great once you become familiar/knowledgable with the software/program you are using...not to leave out sending it over wirelessly to a 36" Plot printer,,,,,fantastic setup for cad IMO ....





B,


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

:laughing:

I’m guessing Wax, Kent and BC are PM’ing each other making plans to come to Denver to b1tch slap me a few times :laughing:


----------



## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I'm glad we could help :laughing:


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Again, thanks a bunch for your time and knowledge.
> 
> I spent a lot of time this morning researching all the stuff and have put together the following order. If I missed something let me know.
> 
> ...


Honestly wish I could go back to that kit - on a larger scale of course. 36x48 table, t sqaure...Hell I'd even start doing Pen and Ink on Mylar again. I genuinely miss it. I'm faster analog than digital. And Fast at digital... Learned how to "Draft" first. Not a specific technology to do so. Hand drawn, especially Architectural, hand drawn has so much more life and personality - imho. But In this day it don't count for anything but "nice drawing" and no more food on the table for it.

Key things to digital/CG, for me, Copy Paste 'Blocks' of pre-drawn items, ease of plotting, changes are much easier ( though crashes in the past have negated that gain ), ease of 'communication-dispersing drawings, the real benefit is the 3D and visualization. Our clients are not well versed in the language, yet alone understanding, what line drawings mean. So 3D is a natural progression. It's easy to be sentimental and very hard to fight the sentimentality that comes from achieving a high level of manual drafting skill and having it be relatively un-used today.

Don't get too hung up on getting the system. Evaluate it of course and stick within the specs we've tossed out. You need to get to the doing of overcoming the learning curve. Hardware will only help with learning rendering-The iterations of trail and error to get a scene to render an image right are where the hardware 'can' speed things up.


----------

