# Nailing vs. Screwing



## SteelCity (May 8, 2008)

Looking for some input on Nailing vs. Screwing down your floors and subfloors.

I know nailing has typically been the conventional way, but don't nails withdrawl, leading to creeky floors and expensive call backs??

Considering the advancements in autofeed screw systems, what advantages do you all feel that nailing still has over screwing?? ..or vice-versa

(I know that code in Canada dictates that all subfloors have to be screwed down, so I guess I would expect the answers from U.S. and Canadian posters to vary)


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

SteelCity said:


> Looking for some input on Nailing vs. Screwing down your floors and subfloors.
> 
> I know nailing has typically been the conventional way, but don't nails withdrawl, leading to creeky floors and expensive call backs??
> 
> ...


I don't think I've ever screwed down a sub floor. Nails and glue. Advantage? Speed, nothings going anywhere once the glue cures.


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## SteelCity (May 8, 2008)

The only disadvantage I could see to using adhesives is the variability in curing time. Somtimes construction traffic can weaken the bond if it isn't 100% cured

and in regards to the Speed end of things... that's why I brought autofeed screw guns into the picture

Thanks for your input!


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

I prefer to glue and screw down subfloors especially on high end jobs. Guarenteed no call backs. Worth it to me


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## bjg5240 (May 8, 2006)

I glue & screw everything. I think nailing along with adhesive would be fine too, but I prefer screws. The squeaking floors of homes built in the past is due to the lack of adhesive use!


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## GoodHouse (Sep 3, 2007)

Screw all the way, I dont bother with glue much, just over-screw.


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## j_builder (May 10, 2008)

Really I think both work in most applications, but it just depends on the situation or job site spec's per plans (architect/engineer requirements).

Nailing with 6/8d's ring shanks (makes quick work) along with some heavy duty adhesive shot down at 6-12 in most cases will make for a really tight fitting sub floor.

Screws have more tendency to bend/break off at the head or what I really like is when my Dewalt screw gun finds one of my fingers without even aiming= SCHITTTT!

Jerry
JLP Construction


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## XanadooLTD (Oct 6, 2007)

You are right. Even ring shank nails will squeak over time. If you want to do the job right and forget about it after it is done. Glue and screw. You do this and you wont have to worri about it down the road.


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## Handyman Jim (Apr 24, 2008)

Screws hold stonger than nails .I always use screws.

http://www.handymanjimnoonan.com


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## SteelCity (May 8, 2008)

Good information fellas! 

To anyone using autofeed screw guns... Which brand are you using, and please tell of ANY issues you've had with it


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

Glue and screw. Wood squeaing on the nail shaft!!!!! Pulled up tons of carpet to fix these, and totally screw down the decking, and pull nails.

I use a Senco battery powered auto feed. The batteries don't seem to hold a charge for very long. I got one battery that is a total waste of space in the case. I wish it had a cord and plug!!!!!


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Makita with the extension pole so I dont have to bend over
No problems
Just try not to be cheap :whistling and try using the same bit for the whole job (Not mentioning any names)


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

screws all the way for sub floor, underlayment etc..


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## XanadooLTD (Oct 6, 2007)

18v Senco Duraspin. Works with wood screws, drywall screws. Auto depth also. Can't go wrong with it. I havent had any problems with the battery on this one.


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## JCY (May 15, 2008)

This is a very good discussion. I sure learned more now. Thanks guys


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## jumbocactar (Feb 4, 2008)

we use the senco and it works good, i think batterys are a bad idea for anything that you do a lot of ie, deck screwing and floor screwing because you eat batteries, anyone here had any call backs w/ ballistic screws? (they are #2square drive screws that fit in a standard framing gun) ive used them plenty and they are much faster but i havent been around to see how well they actually hold up vs ring shanks or real screws?


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

If you are putting down underlayment for vinyl, don't use drywall screws. They can rust from the adhesive moisture and bleed thru. Most pros staple.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

rusty baker said:


> If you are putting down underlayment for vinyl, don't use drywall screws. They can rust from the adhesive moisture and bleed thru. Most pros staple.


Drywall screws are for: you guessed it----DRYWALL, duh.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

I have seen a lot of builders use drywall screws, I guess because they already have them.


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## ridewags (Jun 5, 2008)

in my experience laying floors... especially on older homes... I find myself having to add a bunch of screws all over to secure the sub floor a bit better in some areas cause the nails are starting to come up... And I dont want to have to deal with a callback cause the floor I just installed is squeeky... so for the sake of the guy doin the finished floor, use screws


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

Coarse thread drywall screws will work. They are a little brittle and snap the heads when they get in a bind, but you don't have to worry about rust, as there is more moisture involved in taping and floating a drywall job, then rolling out asphalt impregnated felt.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

I have installed flooring for 35 years. It is better if underlayment is stapled.


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## Poor Floorman (Jul 20, 2008)

SteelCity said:


> Looking for some input on Nailing vs. Screwing down your floors and subfloors.
> 
> I know nailing has typically been the conventional way, but don't nails withdrawl, leading to creeky floors and expensive call backs??
> 
> ...



Screws will hold better if they are the right ones.
All screws are not the same. The ones for sub-flooring have a reverse thread just below the head to force the sub-flooring down tight. Otherwise you have a better chance of loose or creeky floors if no glue was used.
For me, I use ring shanked cement coated nails in my Senco and call it a day.
Anyway, I'm new to the forum but been installing floors for 27 years.
Hope I've helped:clap:


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Screw and glue. Keep using nails so I can go back and get it done right and charge more!:whistling


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Poor Floorman said:


> Screws will hold better if they are the right ones.
> All screws are not the same. The ones for sub-flooring have a reverse thread just below the head to force the sub-flooring down tight. Otherwise you have a better chance of loose or creeky floors if no glue was used.
> For me, I use ring shanked cement coated nails in my Senco and call it a day.
> Anyway, I'm new to the forum but been installing floors for 27 years.
> Hope I've helped:clap:


Thats right. been telling people that. Glad someone else knows too. The sub floor will not always come down to contact the joists with conventional screws and especially nails.

We had to go back on one because of a squeaky spot due to the nail did not pull the plywood down. The subfloor was riding up and down the nail.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

USP45 said:


> Thats right. been telling people that. Glad someone else knows too. The sub floor will not always come down to contact the joists with conventional screws and especially nails.
> 
> We had to go back on one because of a squeaky spot due to the nail did not pull the plywood down. The subfloor was riding up and down the nail.


That's why God invented shims! Don't ya'll no nothin?


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## Poor Floorman (Jul 20, 2008)

Cdat said:


> Screw and glue. Keep using nails so I can go back and get it done right and charge more!:whistling



I hope this site is not filled with people like this, maybe just a bad apple in the bunch.

They build with nails, the code is a nailing schedule. All those sub-floors that are installed with nails and up to code  are what?

Some people spend their whole life in the box.

I wonder if Cdat puts 3/4" plywood sub-floor, over concrete, with screws and glue. I suppose on each sheet of plywood he could drill 42 holes in the concrete, plug them, spread the glue and then screw the plywood sheet down. Hence screwed and glued plywood sub-floor done right.
Let's follow this guy, he knows where he's going.

Furthermore, I hope Cdat isn't one of these guys that uses the wrong screw or cheep ones and doesn't sink them all the way and leaves the heads up. Because all I can do is to fix this problem after is to hit them with a hammer, break the head off and put a nail there. Now try and tell me that you're the only floor guy that sinks all the screw heads. LOL


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Poor Floorman said:


> I hope this site is not filled with people like this, maybe just a bad apple in the bunch.
> 
> They build with nails, the code is a nailing schedule. All those sub-floors that are installed with nails and up to code  are what?
> 
> ...


Code is the bare minimum. I'm a dick, live with it, m'kay? I'd not be doing a floor over concrete in the 1st place. The items I brought up were from previous arguments on this very same sub-forum. Kinda' poking fun at those people. So, edumacation my dear fellow! I do SECTIONS of floors. Rarely the whole floor.:shifty:


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Code is minimum requirement, that does not mean its the best thing to do


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

USP45 said:


> Code is minimum requirement, that does not mean its the best thing to do


His stuff only has to survive until the next earthquake. Mine has to survive forever.:whistling


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Cdat said:


> His stuff only has to survive until the next earthquake. Mine has to survive forever.:whistling


there you go! i usually try to go above and beyond code requirements myself. Just looks and lasts better.


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## stevensmth89 (Jul 21, 2008)

If you would like to permanently keep the flooring, nailing should be better due to the fact that it is much stronger than screwing. However, screwing should be very helpful if you are planning on removing the flooring.

Hope i was helpful,
John


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

stevensmth89 said:


> If you would like to permanently keep the flooring, nailing should be better due to the fact that it is much stronger than screwing. However, screwing should be very helpful if you are planning on removing the flooring.
> 
> Hope i was helpful,
> John


Not true. As stated before even ring shank nails will turn lose after time. Smooth shank nails will pull out also. You simply can not pull out a screw like a nail.


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

stevensmth89 said:


> If you would like to permanently keep the flooring, *nailing should be better due to the fact that it is much stronger than screwing.* However, screwing should be very helpful if you are planning on removing the flooring.
> 
> Hope i was helpful,
> John


You can't honestly believe this. Your trade is listed as realtor :blink:. Subloor is glued, tacked w/nails, then screwed with flooring screws. Underlayment stapled.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Yeh, I thought the same thing, realator. Guess they got into the home building business


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## OCRS (Apr 29, 2008)

Hey 45, what happened to your old avatar? Everytime you post it's a different one. I liked the pistolis myself


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

OCRS said:


> Hey 45, what happened to your old avatar? Everytime you post it's a different one. I liked the pistolis myself


Im going to put them back on, waas just fooling and lost it

There you go!


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## Poor Floorman (Jul 20, 2008)

Cdat said:


> His stuff only has to survive until the next earthquake. Mine has to survive forever.:whistling


I live in So. Cal. Earthquake country, and thank you Moe, Larry and Curly for your advice on where the building inspectors can stick their building codes.

Not to get off the subject, I got a riddle for you guys.

WHO JUMPS FIRST OUT OF THE AIRPLANE WITH NO PARACHUTE? 

A plumber, a fool or a carpenter. 

Since these guys haven't been laying floors very long.............

WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

stevensmth89 said:


> If you would like to permanently keep the flooring, nailing should be better due to the fact that it is much stronger than screwing. However, screwing should be very helpful if you are planning on removing the flooring.
> 
> Hope i was helpful,
> John


dude look at his other posts. he is just whoring it up. Nailing may have more sheer strength, but I don't know if thats a big issue or not. I screw and PL40 but Ive never gone back to a house Ive done after an earthquake either. I agree code is the minimum requirement for a lot of things I say do it your way as long as its above and beyond. As far as the angry flooring guy. Im not taking any sides, but what have you seen happen to a screwed down floor thats so horrific?This is your chance to teach me a lesson  Because I am just a youngin and have seen lots of sqeeky floors from nails.


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Poor Floorman said:


> I live in So. Cal. Earthquake country, and thank you Moe, Larry and Curly for your advice on where the building inspectors can stick their building codes.
> Not to get off the subject, I got a riddle for you guys.
> WHO JUMPS FIRST OUT OF THE AIRPLANE WITH NO PARACHUTE?
> A plumber, a fool or a carpenter.
> ...


Bad day? No sex lately? Need a group hug? Here, have a sign that fits you:







:jester:


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## herbabuena (Jan 10, 2009)

*What kind of screws?*

Thanks everyone for the informative discussion so far.

We are about to install a strand-woven bamboo floor and want to use screws with pre-drilled holes. For those of you who have suggested a screw-down installation of hardwood, do you have any particular suggestions about the type of screw?

Also, I've also read suggestions on here about milling out the groove over the tongue to decrease dimpling. Any comments about depth and angle?

Thanks!


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## NoClone (Jul 8, 2008)

Bill said:


> I prefer to glue and screw down subfloors especially on high end jobs. Guarenteed no call backs. Worth it to me


I completely agree! It takes a little longer, but no problems and no call backs....That makes everyone happy!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

herbabuena said:


> Thanks everyone for the informative discussion so far.
> 
> We are about to install a strand-woven bamboo floor and want to use screws with pre-drilled holes. For those of you who have suggested a screw-down installation of hardwood, do you have any particular suggestions about the type of screw?
> 
> ...


 
Seriously, you are an idiot. I told you that before, you edited the post now I find it again.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

herbabuena said:


> Thanks everyone for the informative discussion so far.
> 
> We are about to install a strand-woven bamboo floor and want to use screws with pre-drilled holes. For those of you who have suggested a screw-down installation of hardwood, do you have any particular suggestions about the type of screw?
> 
> ...





WarnerConstInc. said:


> Seriously, you are an idiot. I told you that before, you edited the post now I find it again.


I think his name is
"Good Herb" maybe
explains a lot. :laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Could you imagine pre-drilling all your flooring like that? Then having to plug all those holes? Hope no one sees my new kitchen floor when I am done with it, wide plank ash face nailed with cut nails. 

Wow is all I got!!


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## clkconstruction (Feb 20, 2008)

I recently got a call from a home owner who is sick of their squeaky floor. I normally would pass this off to the next guy but in this economy... 
What is the best way to remedy this problem without too much damage? I'm not sure how far they are willing to go in order to gain access to the sub-floor. I am guessing they have carpet.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Go to Ace and buy the kit with the screw and pedistal, the screw breaks off under the carpet. Its like 20 bucks.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

clkconstruction said:


> I recently got a call from a home owner who is sick of their squeaky floor. I normally would pass this off to the next guy but in this economy...
> *What is the best way* to remedy this problem without too much damage? I'm not sure how far they are willing to go in order to gain access to the sub-floor. I am guessing they have carpet.


Hire a carpet guy to break the seam at the doorway, pull the carpet back, install screws into joists at squeaky areas, re-seam & re-stretch carpet. Its actually pretty common.


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## simplejack (Jan 15, 2009)

If you use the right Glue, will the nail still squeak? 

I'm a commercial Contractor so I know my way around a screw gun _*Way*_ better than a hammer, but I was under the impression that screw heads tend to weaken due to the torque needed for wood on wood fastening, making it more likely to break in a strong shift, and that nails should be used with glue on sub flooring.

Is that no longer an issue with today's screws?


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## PattersonRemod (Feb 7, 2009)

We're a building and flooring company out in az and we've had great success with the designed HARDI BACKER screws specifically made for 1/2 and 1/4 in backer board if used properly the hardi backer screw company will warranty any problems due to the install


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