# Dimming lights



## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

Question for the electricians out there. At my house, we've been experiencing lights dimming recently. Didn't have any problems until we added a wine cooler in the kitchen. It's on it's own 20 amp circuit with 12/2 wire. Not sure if it was worth mentioning or if it was just coincidence. The service is 200amp, it was upgraded at some point before we bought the place. That being mentioned, whoever did the service change, did a really messy job. The panel looks hideous. I'm not an electrician, so I haven't the slightest why the lights started dimming. The only thing I noticed is that 80% of the neutrals and grounds share the same bar in the panel. Could this have anything to do with the lights dimming? Please forgive my ignorance, just looking for some help or guidance before I call some one out to check it out.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Has it been hot around you lately? 

Usually the transformers are no where near as big as they should. Just because you have a 200 amp panel doesn't mean it's actually getting what you need, if that makes sense. 

Just wondering if your neighborhood all has there ac on or something....


Put a volt meter on one of the lights.


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## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

Yeah, everyone's got their A/C on here this time of year. 

I was googling earlier, and several links suggested that it may be an issue on the service end. 

The lights dim when the oven is on, when the fridge kicks on, and when the garage door opener operates.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Neutral and ground actually should be tied together in the main panel.

You may have what my POCO calls a "swinging neutral". If it's that, lights would get dimmer on one leg when a load is applied, but lights on the other would get brighter. And that would be up to the POCO to fix.


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## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> Neutral and ground actually should be tied together in the main panel. You may have what my POCO calls a "swinging neutral". If it's that, lights would get dimmer on one leg when a load is applied, but lights on the other would get brighter. And that would be up to the POCO to fix.


I understand that they should be tied together. What I was saying is that I have two bars in the panel and one bar has at least 80% of the grounds and Neutrals jammed in it while the other has only a few.

Can you enlighten me on what a POCO is?


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

JesseCocozza said:


> Can you enlighten me on what a POCO is?


Power Company


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

JesseCocozza said:


> What I was saying is that I have two bars in the panel and one bar has at least 80% of the grounds and Neutrals jammed in it while the other has only a few.


That's just fine. Electrically, both bars are the same and it makes no difference which one you use.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Jesse if you unplug the wine cooler, do you still have the problem?


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## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> Jesse if you unplug the wine cooler, do you still have the problem?


I tired by flipping the breaker since it's dedicated and easier to get to. Still got some dimming What's odd, is that after a week or two it subsided. I added a dedicated 20 amp recep for a garage refrigerator yesterday and the dimming started again. Going to wait and see if it subsides again.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Are you sure your not just drunk from the wine?


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

By eliminating the wine cooler (shutting down the breaker) you eliminated what you thought was causing the problem.

Another "free" option is to contact the power company. They will usually check their lines/connects first, then inform you if you need to contact an electrician and the possible cause of your problem that needs to be corrected.


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## bartstop (Dec 9, 2013)

Could have been doing it before and you simply didn't notice it.


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## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> By eliminating the wine cooler (shutting down the breaker) you eliminated what you thought was causing the problem. Another "free" option is to contact the power company. They will usually check their lines/connects first, then inform you if you need to contact an electrician and the possible cause of your problem that needs to be corrected.


It was the worst it had been when I got home yesterday. Checked the neutral coming in from the meter in the panel to make sure it wasn't loose. All neutrals were secure. Called the power company, they were out in 30 minutes. He tested it and couldn't find anything. Miraculously the dining has stopped even under heavy draw periods. They came out today and installed a recorder for a week.

At this point, I think they may have seen something on the digital meter from their end when I called, and that's why they were out so quick? Not sure. Seems to be rectified now.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

And, at no cost to you which is always a plus.

But, it sucks for this thread as we'll never know the cause and correction. lol


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

JesseCocozza said:


> Checked the neutral coming in from the meter in the panel to make sure it wasn't loose. All neutrals were secure.


Sometimes just the act of checking connections can "fix" them, whether done by the end user or a company rep. Like wiggling the post connection on your truck's battery cable.

Schrodinger's Connection. :laughing:


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## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

I honestly think it may have been a funky connection at the meter. It hasn't been long since they switched the meter for the new digital one. I can't remember when they switched it because we weren't notified, but it has to have been in the last 4 months or so.

They said they installed a recording device, but I have no idea what it Los like or where it is. I will post any results so you boys don't lose any sleep. Thanks again for your insight.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

JesseCocozza said:


> I understand that they should be tied together. What I was saying is that I have two bars in the panel and one bar has at least 80% of the grounds and Neutrals jammed in it while the other has only a few.
> 
> Can you enlighten me on what a POCO is?


Electrically it's the same bar.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

JesseCocozza said:


> I honestly think it may have been a funky connection at the meter. It hasn't been long since they switched the meter for the new digital one. I can't remember when they switched it because we weren't notified, but it has to have been in the last 4 months or so.
> 
> They said they installed a recording device, but I have no idea what it Los like or where it is. I will post any results so you boys don't lose any sleep. Thanks again for your insight.


If it's a smart meter then it is the recording device.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> Schrodinger's Connection. :laughing:


Leo, do we possibly have another closet TBBT fan here on staff?:jester:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The moderator is both dead and alive.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Did this problem go away?

I was going to hypothesize, that, as you mentioned that the panel is a mess, and a few new circuits have been added, it's possible that the load is not balanced.

I always take time to do a rough calculation and try to balance the load as much as possible. I've seen guys that don't. 


The loads can also change due to homeowner usage patterns, so it's not exact.





Delta


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## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Did this problem go away? I was going to hypothesize, that, as you mentioned that the panel is a mess, and a few new circuits have been added, it's possible that the load is not balanced. I always take time to do a rough calculation and try to balance the load as much as possible. I've seen guys that don't. The loads can also change due to homeowner usage patterns, so it's not exact. Delta


 The problem has been non existent since the power company came out too look at it. They came and picked up the recorder today and said nothing showed up during the week. It's crazy because it was dimming and flickering as if someone was playing with a dimmer switch for the whole house. Glad it's resolved (I think) but I still have now answer for why it ever even occurred. The panel is pretty well balanced by the way.


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