# Tesla Battery



## AlexJC1806 (May 17, 2018)

What does everyone think about the Tesla house battery and how it reacts to the components in my house relating to hvac? I'm considering purchasing one but don't have any friends who have them so I know very little about them. Anyone have one and pros and cons?


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

I'd spend $ on a Hybrid car/truck with provisions for use as a home genny during power outages....see P R island...
A plug in kit could save a few pennies of gas during your commute.....

A giant lithium battery in my garage, maybe not so smart??? may be in a doghouse away from flammable cars and wood housing?

Demand less tree hugging, and more reliable cheap coal and nuke power plants, Let Germany go broke going Green.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> I'd spend $ on a Hybrid car/truck with provisions for use as a home genny during power outages....see P R island...
> A plug in kit could save a few pennies of gas during your commute.....
> 
> A giant lithium battery in my garage, maybe not so smart??? may be in a doghouse away from flammable cars and wood housing?
> ...


Think about this:

We have Time Of Use pricing. 7PM to 7AM we pay 6.5 cents. During the day there are Mid-Peak and Peak prices which are 9.4 and 13.2 cents.

So enter a battery bank that charges at 6.5 cents and powers your house during peak hours.

Ain't nothing green about it...but it could save you money.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

AlexJC1806 said:


> What does everyone think about the Tesla house battery and how it reacts to the components in my house relating to hvac? I'm considering purchasing one but don't have any friends who have them so I know very little about them. Anyone have one and pros and cons?


There are websites dedicated to this these types of discussions that are better suited to your question. 
Pick a link to read here

Location, usage, and costs have everything to do with ROI.

One persons $0.13 is another persons $0.46.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

For most that need Air Conditioning, an old school ice cube freezer would allow use of off peak power to make ice for day time cooling loads...

batteries are still very low energy density so far compared to Oil and gases...

tesla batteries cost far more then all the energy they can store in 2000 charges is worth wholesale......= money pit.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> For most that need Air Conditioning, an old school ice cube freezer would allow use of off peak power to make ice for day time cooling loads...
> 
> batteries are still very low energy density so far compared to Oil and gases...
> 
> tesla batteries cost far more then all the energy they can store in 2000 charges is worth wholesale......= money pit.


10 years ago I had a cordless drill and a light. I laughed at cordless tools that came out because they couldn't perform anywhere near the way a corded tool would.

Since then I've replaced every tool I have except the shop vac with a cordless tool. I've replaced my generator with a battery charger that can supply 120V power.

So you laugh at batteries compared to gas...but I bet in another 10 years it will be a completely different situation.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

In 10 years who knows where we'll be, for now it's hard to justify, especially a system where they're running an inverter, might make more sense to go D.C. with the appliances and not have that cost and loss although that would rule out tying into the grid.

I like the idea of the utility companies subsidizing the costs of the battery banks for the trade off of being able to tap into them when needed, essentially setting up a giant decentralized power plant, lots of things that could be very attractive going that route.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Rio said:


> In 10 years who knows where we'll be, for now it's hard to justify, especially a system where they're running an inverter, might make more sense to go D.C. with the appliances and not have that cost and loss although that would rule out tying into the grid.
> 
> I like the idea of the utility companies subsidizing the costs of the battery banks for the trade off of being able to tap into them when needed, essentially setting up a giant decentralized power plant, lots of things that could be very attractive going that route.


The savings would be huge for types of electricity that can't adjust their output. That's why we use (for example) and combination of nuclear and hydro. The nuclear is made to run flat out and can't easily be throttled, but hydro can, so it's adjusted as demand increases. 

If everyone had a battery to smooth out demand it would save on the generation side.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> The savings would be huge for types of electricity that can't adjust their output. That's why we use (for example) and combination of nuclear and hydro. The nuclear is made to run flat out and can't easily be throttled, but hydro can, so it's adjusted as demand increases.
> 
> If everyone had a battery to smooth out demand it would save on the generation side.


Yes, by reducing what they call spinning reserve.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Rio said:


> In 10 years who knows where we'll be, for now it's hard to justify, especially a system where they're running an inverter, might make more sense to go D.C. with the appliances and not have that cost and loss although that would rule out tying into the grid.
> 
> I like the idea of the utility companies subsidizing the costs of the battery banks for the trade off of being able to tap into them when needed, essentially setting up a giant decentralized power plant, lots of things that could be very attractive going that route.




Mike Pence will be president.


Mike.
_______________


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Inner 10; I think you are mixing up the cost of temp panels and extension cords with gird based power...

A Electrical low voltage sub competing with you using 120VAC tools as much as possible would have a lower unit cost on larger jobs IMO then a Dewalt ad....

Hint: time consumed servicing batteries, and the no charging off batteries off shift issue.

Imagine a battery bag that you'd plug in at Quitting time, that would sequentially charge all the batteries stored in it, saving 10-15 minutes EVERY DAY for production$.....

For a mason battery powered tools are profit losers. most need for battery tools is due Electrical Subs FAILING to provide to contract temp power panels and maintaining the same.


Final nail in miracle battery arriving is the cost of old school lead acid keeps increasing, if new tech was happening lead batteries would be cheaper every day forward......


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Fouthgeneration said:


> .....................
> 
> Final nail in miracle battery arriving is the cost of old school lead acid keeps increasing, if new tech was happening lead batteries would be cheaper every day forward......


riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight......................................
smh


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Inner 10; I think you are mixing up the cost of temp panels and extension cords with gird based power...
> 
> A Electrical low voltage sub competing with you using 120VAC tools as much as possible would have a lower unit cost on larger jobs IMO then a Dewalt ad....
> 
> ...


In my industry cordless is a life saver, probably not as important for a mason who spends vastly more time on the same site. So you don't use any cordless tools?

I have a gang charger, but it charges 4 simultaneously not sequentially.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Mike Pence will be president.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


So what, if he is is he going to ban innovation?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Rio said:


> So what, if he is is he going to ban innovation?




Just a statement. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Inner10: I use battery tools too much, I think....

I like to drill and saw with 120/ or better yet 220VAC, but love the control of a drill driver on fastening wall ties.

Have you ever considered a semi truck style Auxiliary power unit, you could even add compressed air.....mounted on your service truck.

Think of the job site as a temporary factory that builds itself....

Not using 120VAC or 240VAC is usually leaving $ on the table, the few $ the general / Sparky save doing a boot job on the temp power just costs the owner in total labor material costs.

Why isn't the E-Sub buying/charging/everyone's batteries now?????:jester:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Inner10: I use battery tools too much, I think....
> 
> I like to drill and saw with 120/ or better yet 220VAC, but love the control of a drill driver on fastening wall ties.
> 
> ...


I work largely in apartment buildings, mid and high rises. I configured my tool setup specifically for that style of construction.

I've been very close to pulling the trigger on a compressor for the truck, but to be honest it wouldn't get much use except for airing up tires. The only time I ever used a compressor on a job site was to blow lines through conduits, and I've since replace it with a purpose built Greenlee blower.

The problems I faced with power was there would only be a couple functioning outlets per floor, often in excess of 50 feet away. Some sites would have a temp panel on each floor but it could be a 100 foot run. Then the site safety staff doesn't want cords on floors where carts are being wheeled so you have to tie your cords up which is a complete pain in the ass.

The time wasted jockeying for power on jobsites is vastly more than the performance difference with cordless tools. I'd be willing to put my cordless SDS Max against your corded on any of my jobsites...I'd have my holes drilled before you found a power outlet.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

That's the same even on many older residential jobs. No outside plugs and only two prong plugs and old soft breakers as well.

Cordless is the way to go. I roll my gear in my boxes, open box and go to work.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Sub standard temp power costs sub, GCs, even the electric sub thousands of dollars in wasted time providing battery feed tools instead of using house current for most tasks.

Most winter ops tend to be 4 months of blackouts and nothing, forcing one to use dumb sources of heat and costly generators that annoy 24 hours a day....

I'm getting mad just remembering a fraction of the BS caused by lazy, cheap Electrical subs failures to perform as contracted.

Back to Holiday mode.:thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Sub standard temp power costs sub, GCs, even the electric sub thousands of dollars in wasted time providing battery feed tools instead of using house current for most tasks.
> 
> Most winter ops tend to be 4 months of blackouts and nothing, forcing one to use dumb sources of heat and costly generators that annoy 24 hours a day....
> 
> ...


They do what they are paid to do, I'd just rather go cordless then jocky for position at the power outlet. I don't are how much money the construction firm wastes I care about what I make.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The oil footprint electricity used for electric cars isn't insignificant. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> So you agree with Tesla owners that OIL should not be subsidized? :laughing:
> 
> https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/10/ending-global-fuel-subsidies-priority-000223
> 
> ...




What I don't get is why you feel the need to question my " Americanism " because I don't want to subsidize liberal BS. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Agreed...but it doesn't stop you from buying a GM when they received 3x what Tesla got in subs.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk




Has nothing to do with what I buy. I can still be against government handouts. One could argue my purchase helps prevent government handouts. The opposite of what you're are trying to claim.


Mike.
_______________


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

It's amazing how much we take the benefits the world has received from the incredible resource of oil for granted. It's the lifeblood of the modern economy and is providing the bridge to take us over to truly sustainable and clean energy sources that will have the potential to enrich the entire planet.
God Bless Oil!


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Oil pays many billions more in the public coffers than any subsidies they recieve. Every gas station everything that is made with oil. The tax revenue could be in the trillions.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


So you are against subsidies - except for when you aren't.

And which thing is it you refer to that does not pay more into the coffers than they receive in subsidies?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> AND be careful with what your wish for. Canada would become a third world country with oil.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Really? Care to explain that?


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> What I don't get is why *you* feel the need to question my " Americanism " because I don't want to subsidize liberal BS.
> 
> 
> Mike.


I didn't name you at all :whistling

Nor did I pick a political reference anywhere, other than Obama and you are on the same thought process for stopping subsidized oil, which I am all for too. 

You can't fault companies for incentives offered by the government. The rebates did not go to the auto companies at all, it just helped with sales, and driving the technology forward. 

When GM went belly up, I said let them go and I am a Chevy guy. 

On the other hand our country in order to stay on the top, has to invest in research companies. Otherwise technology will belong to foreign adversaries. Companies outside the USA will pay our best and brightest to work for them outside this country. The same foreign countries will also send their best and brightest to school here, and it is our job to keep them in the USA and work here after graduation. The issue of spending money on technology is not BS, but something that can make or break this country. 

The race is on for alternative power resources...Science will come up with one, but who will own the technology??


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Peter_C said:


> I didn't name you at all :whistling
> 
> Nor did I pick a political reference anywhere, other than Obama and you are on the same thought process for stopping subsidized oil, which I am all for too.
> 
> ...


yup


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Really? Care to explain that?




Typo "without"


Mike.
_______________


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> AND be careful with what your wish for. Canada would become a third world country with oil.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


That's a fact, they would have to start burning it to make electricity.



Californiadecks said:


> The oil footprint electricity used for electric cars isn't insignificant.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


It's a fraction though, even if everyone drove hybrids the regenerative breaking alone accounts for massive energy savings. 



Californiadecks said:


> Has nothing to do with what I buy. I can still be against government handouts. One could argue my purchase helps prevent government handouts. The opposite of what you're are trying to claim.
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


So you support companies that need tax dollars to survive, but at the same time you think they shouldn't exist?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> I didn't name you at all :whistling
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh I don't fault the company I fault liberal BS ideology. Thought I made that clear. If a company can't survive without uncle sugar, they shouldn't be able to survive. It's not complicated here.

And to be clear I'm not against electric cars. I'm against all subsidies period. If the Constitution doesn't allow it I'm against it. Now if a state or local uncle sugar wants to give the perks that would be within the constitution. Here's the only things the federal government can spend money on per the constitution. These 8 things.

The Constitution’s articles, and the subsequent Amendments, specify the prerogatives of the Feds. They are listed in Article I, Sec. 8; Articles II-V; Amendments XIII-XVI, XIX-XX, XXIII-XXVI. These prerogatives belong to one of the following categories:

1) Defense, war prosecution, peace, foreign relations, foreign commerce, and interstate commerce;

2) The protection of citizens’ constitutional rights (e.g the right to vote) and ensuring that slavery remains illegal;

3) Establishing federal courts inferior to the SCOTUS;

4) Copyright protection;

5) Coining money;

6) Establishing post offices and post roads;

7) Establishing a national set of universal weights and measures;

8 ) Taxation needed to raise revenue to perform these essential functions.

Those are the only prerogatives of the Feds. The Tenth Amendment states that all prerogatives not explicitly given to the Federal Government, nor prohibited of the states, are reserved to the states or to the people (i.e. individual Americans). So the Feds are not allowed to handle any issues not explicitly listed in the Constitution; their prerogatives are limited to what the Constitution explicitly states.


Mike.
_______________


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> That's a fact, they would have to start burning it to make electricity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Matters none what I choose to buy, just done force me to give money to any company. That's the difference.




Mike.
_______________


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

So it is black and white.

If only things were so simple. It would be interesting to see what life would be like living by Mike's rules following the constitution to the T, and nothing more. Yikes! Judge Dread comes to mind. "There is only Taco Bell", and Comcast! AHHHHH! 

We the people need many protections outside the simple listing written above. Healthcare being on the top of the list. Not everyone is rich$$$! We need to remember that. We also need to evolve in a changing world. 

Still the entire point of this thread was Tesla's Powerwall for which NO ONE has gotten a quote or seen the ROI on this forum, yet they are adamantly against it. How can you bash something when you don't even know the specs? I get that it is not for everyone, but there are many who can possibly benefit. It is not an emotional decision, but should be based solely on ROI, or straight up need, like off grid or backup power. This is the beginning of the future being put into action. From here the technology will continue to improve by implementing it today.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Peter_C said:


> ........................
> Still the entire point of this thread was Tesla's Powerwall for which NO ONE has gotten a quote or seen the ROI on this forum, yet they are adamantly against it. How can you bash something when you don't even know the specs? I get that it is not for everyone, but there are many who can possibly benefit. It is not an emotional decision, but should be based solely on ROI, or straight up need, like off grid or backup power. This is the beginning of the future being put into action. From here the technology will continue to improve by implementing it today.


yup


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Matters none what I choose to buy, just done force me to give money to any company. That's the difference.
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


Yeah I hear ya...but maybe your actions would speak louder than words.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Yeah I hear ya...but maybe your actions would speak louder than words.




Because I own a Chevy I have to be for the government passing out my tax money? How do you square that circle?


Mike.
_______________


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm not in the camp that wants them out of business just in the camp that says don't force me to pay their business by threat of prison. It's very simple. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> So it is black and white.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The constitution isn't just suggestions. It's the law of the land. Don't like it there's a constitutional way to change it. Until then it's not too be changed depending on who's in power. Why even have a constitution if it's not to be followed?



Mike.
_______________


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

And if it's not too be followed to a tee then who gets to determine what parts get to be followed and what parts don't. More importantly how do you determine that?

Do you not see the problem here with your statement "the Constitution shouldn't be followed to a tee?"


Mike.
_______________


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> Oh I don't fault the company I fault liberal BS ideology. Thought I made that clear.
> 
> Mike.


Just want to point out what you call liberal BS was started by a REPUBLICAN. The law makers you voted into office may just know more than you.



> *George W. Bush, Father of the Modern Electric Car*
> 
> While we're basking in the short spring between presidential elections--sort of--it's time to acknowledge the debt owed by electric cars, not to today's crop of bureaucrats, but to the bête noire of progressives everywhere, *President George W. Bush.*
> 
> Some critics think the electric-car subsidies in place today belong to the current White House, but *those line items actually are the product of Bush's second term*, and they're the root of the real electric cars you can see, buy, drive and recharge today


https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1060552_george-w-bush-father-of-the-modern-electric-car

So far you don't agree with Bush on his vehicle subsidies, but you agree with Obama on his removing oil subsidies. Got it!

As to the Constitution there are many addendum's added to it for the betterment of society.


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