# Tile shower liners



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I love schluter showers. I use better benches even with Orange board. Just fabric the whole thing and use proper amounts of kerdi fix. 


P.s. kerdi fix is a wonderful gutter sealant. Also, used it to seal a door. I love everything kerdi. Just wish they had drains like noble.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Just wish they had drains like noble.


They do


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## ee3 (Feb 10, 2006)

thin set method ,using standard drain-http://www.noblecompany.com/TechnicalData/Videos/tabid/70/Default.aspx


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## MortarForker (May 4, 2011)

gapierce said:


> Do you install waterproof membranes on the wall or just backer? Do you use a prefab shower base instead of a dry bed? My main concern with the base is that it is sloped evenly around the pan w/ no high or low stops. I have seen the plastic sloped pieces that you drybed over but have never tried these either.


My main concern would be " It's upstairs and your asking question's about water proofing"  Danger...Hire a pro and learn first hand.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

bluebird5 said:


> my vote is schluter drain, 1/2 inch cement board on walls, 3701 fortified mud bed for the floor (laticrete), and hydroban for floor and walls. If adding bench, build it out of wood or block (slope it), wrap it in cement board and hydroban it when you hydroban the walls.
> 
> GApierce, Tech Dawg has a giant thread titled "My Master Bathroom" search for it. He used this method. Personally I think it is one of the simpler ways to build a shower.


Well, I am going to have to disagree...with Angus!! (might be a first).

The above is exactly how I build custom showers, except for one thing...I have not used Hydroban for waterproofing, although I will be soon.

I do not have any issue building my benches, thresholds, or kneewalls outa wood, then cladding them with CBU, then waterproofing.

I have built countless showers this way and have yet to be called back for anything...ever.

I would like to use hydroban in place of kerdi for 2 reasons:

#1: using all laticrete products allows me to give a 25 year or lifetime warranty on the installation...a good selling point

#2: using hydroban doesn't limit the type of thinset I can use


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Here in Vancouver we build our showers with just about every waterproofing product under the sun. That said; We do not use Schulter's products like Kerdi because I do not have a certified installer number (this is required here in Vancouver) and the use of modified thnsets is not recommended by Schluter.

Nobel TS is a wonderful product and our first choice in all steam shower projects and fast track showers. The 5' roll makes shower construction a breeze and Nobel TS out performs Kerdi in many ways. The fact that it meets all local plumbing requirements in North America is very comforting.

Mapei's products are excellent and preferred by many of my tile setting crews. A shower base made out of Mapecum Fast Setting Screed Mortar can be covered with sheet membranes in as little as 14-16 hours. Aqua Defense is outstanding and works great in most shower builds.

Laticrete's products are amazing as well and my lead man's favourite product. David likes to say "When in doubt - Hydro Ban it".

By working with Nobel, Mapei or Laticrete you can build any kind of shower and not limit your setting material options. Also the installation of these materials here in Vancouver do not require the special installer card that the plumbing officials are requesting of the Kerdi installs they inspect.

Design your shower backwards and determine the best grouts and setting materials to install. Then check that these products are acceptable with your waterproofing choices.

Make sure to flood test your new project and remember that all shower drains should be installed by a ticketed plumber. Oh Ya - use a linear shower drain to improve your tile options and open the doors to large format tile. Careful of the slip resistance ratings of your tile and make sure that the floor tile has 95% free space if a mesh backer is used.

Good Luck.

JW


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

jarvis design said:


> Well, I am going to have to disagree...with Angus!! (might be a first).



John, I never said it was the _best_ way, just the _easiest_ for a newb.


A lot more room for error with a mud bed installation with someone who doesn't have experience.


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## gapierce (Mar 4, 2011)

The shower floor dimensions are 3' width by 6' length and will have a diagonal shower door entry. There will be 2 knee walls and diagonal entry point w/ 2 tiled 8' walls. I would like to use the shluter pre fab pan but it doesnt look like a pan will work for this install. Are there any other pre fab options for this dimension?

If a prefab pan is not available this is my plan for install

3/4 " advantech floor
1/2 backer board wall
build curb, knee walls and cover with backer and kerdi
install kerdi on walls
install drybed (any tricks to getting this as symetrical as possible?)
install drain
install kerdi
install tile


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## Don_h (Aug 11, 2011)

When doing a dry pack I measure from the center of the drain to the furthest corner to get the pitch(1/4 inch per foot)' then measure the height of your drain. Those two added together will give you your perimeter height. I make a little wall around the whole shower at that height about two inches wide then screed off of that to the drain working from the right side of the shower counter clockwise back to my starting point. I use Kerdi drains though, not sure if you are gonna go that route.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

gapierce said:


> The shower floor dimensions are 3' width by 6' length and will have a diagonal shower door entry. There will be 2 knee walls and diagonal entry point w/ 2 tiled 8' walls. I would like to use the shluter pre fab pan but it doesnt look like a pan will work for this install. Are there any other pre fab options for this dimension?
> 
> If a prefab pan is not available this is my plan for install
> 
> ...


It's been years since I've done this but here's what I used to do:
Use roofing felt under your mix
set your lath/mesh
set bottom of clamp drain
4 parts sand to 1 part Portland cement, you can mix with latex additive

Now you can start setting your pan:
Pan liner 6" past top of curb
cut hole for & install drain
make sure not to block weep holes (cover holes with stone or spacers)
set your wallboard
4 or 5 parts sand to 1 part Portland cement mix with water
slope properly


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## Don_h (Aug 11, 2011)

Guess I should have mentioned the felt, lath and expansion foam first, as well as leveling your drain out before you start. If your new to this though, I think pre-slope then liner then dry pack is far more difficult. Not a bad method, I just don't like it. But if you do see above post about weep holes, pee gravel or spacers are a must for this shower system to work properly.


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## MortarForker (May 4, 2011)

angus242 said:


> It's been years since I've done this but here's what I used to do:
> Use roofing felt under your mix
> set your lath/mesh
> set bottom of clamp drain
> ...


The thought of that lathe with razor sharp edges under the membrane...Hmmm...


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

MortarForker said:


> The thought of that lathe with razor sharp edges under the membrane...Hmmm...


It's not alive. It's not gonna try and free itself from the preslope :laughing:


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## MortarForker (May 4, 2011)

angus242 said:


> It's not alive. It's not gonna try and free itself from the preslope :laughing:


Great humor as alway's..You Da Man Angus!:thumbup:


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

Angus since you are a Mapei man, would you say aqua defense is equivalent to hydro ban? I have used it and redguard and thought it was more elastic than redguard, but have never used aquadefense.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

bluebird5 said:


> Angus since you are a Mapei man, would you say aqua defense is equivalent to hydro ban? I have used it and redguard and thought it was more elastic than redguard, but have never used aquadefense.


The differences I see are:
AD is cheaper than HB (from my supplier)
AD doesn't stink anywhere near as much as HB
AD cures much darker than HB

That's about it.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

andeeznuts and mortarforter? Really. Maybe they should know this stuff is highly googleable.


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## gapierce (Mar 4, 2011)

I appreciate all of the responses and it seems like everyone has their own proven methods. After some thought, your advice and some research I think going with the Schluter kerdi w/ the pre-fab shower pan and drain

Plan of action:
Advantech subloor
Frame knee walls and curbs
Add backer board to knee walls and curb
Add greenboard, moisture resistant drywall to walls
Install kerdi pre fab shower base 
Follow directions for kerdi and drain install w/ unmodified thinset


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

gapierce said:


> I appreciate all of the responses and it seems like everyone has their own proven methods. After some thought, your advice and some research I think going with the Schluter kerdi w/ the pre-fab shower pan and drain
> 
> Plan of action:
> Advantech subloor
> ...


Why bother with green board? I'd either continue using the CBU or just go to standard drywall. You either trust that Kerdi does its job or you don't. Moisture resistant drywall isn't going to benefit anything.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

for the love of god, FLOOD TEST before you tile!!!

i'm just getting home from diagnosing a fancy looking shower that leaks in Caldwell, NJ.

First time home buyers fell in love with the look, shower leaked after first use! the water exposed a patch in the bath in the floor below. the patch crumbled out from deteriation from water. this sais it's been leaking a long time.

looking under, i saw another first... spray on ruberized sealant over underside of sheating, floor joists, and even some on the plumbing!

i suspect the liner has a puncture or was not run up the wall... DIY special

i will further investigate in the week and post up some classic examples on how a simple rubber plug could have saved the day.


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