# step flashing



## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

I was wondering what your guy procedure is for replacing roofs where step flashing is behind siding. Especially vinyl or vertical cedar. I mean you can't really put in new flashing without taking off the siding. With vinyl the j channel is nailed to the flashing and cedar you can't really pop it out far enough to remove the old. Do you remove the shingles along these walls carefully as to not mess up the old step flashing and reuse it? :blink:


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

i figure to disrupt the siding... vinyl is just extra labor

cedar siding i figure how much i will have to remove, replace, paint... add it into proposal and explain it to HO

i am usually the high price, but now and again the HO understands that it is value for not cutting corners


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## Splinter hands (Aug 31, 2011)

I take the siding off also. The vinyl comes off pretty easy and can be reused, pop it off from the bottom with a siding removal tool or a small bar. Cedar usually gets trashed so you will have to replace whatever you take off more than likely.


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

do you guys do that with hardi too? or can you slide it in behind it usually?


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Shame that lead coated copper or terne metal wasn't used. could simply re-use for the next roof. 

Siding removal for galvy and aluminum mandatory imo.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

superseal said:


> Siding removal for galvy and aluminum mandatory imo.


On a residential roof, I have to ask....Why?

Some of the jobs we do, they don't even have any nail holes in them on the roof. Why replace?

Others have one or two nail holes in them, but the new shingles are under the flashing (along with I&W) and over it, so again.....Why?

If it's light aluminum, we usually take them out and use galvanized.

I really don't see the benefit with most re-roofs.


Most flashing leaks are a siding issue. If it doesn't leak prior, then the wall is probably done right. Why disturb it?

Most flashing I see that leaks is because the Sider didn't get his house wrap over the flashing and properly taped.



BTW, post the same question in the siding forum.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

MJW said:


> On a residential roof, I have to ask....Why?
> 
> Some of the jobs we do, they don't even have any nail holes in them on the roof. Why replace?
> 
> ...


I guess because I view roofs in 25/30 year increments and would simply not trust aluminum or galvy to live that long if it were re-used. Some environments are harsher than others and I really don't like re-using any flashing. Leaded copper and terne metal/stainless etc...do offer some exceptions. Just me humble pinion of course :whistling


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

And, I can't really grasp residential vs. commercial altering my thought process...a roof is a roof is a roof. 

Heck, some of my residential work is the size of Sm. commercial. I don't change my ways :no:


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## roofny (Mar 18, 2010)

I treat it on a case by case basis. It depends on the condition; as MJW said, if it is in good condition, I'm leaving it. If it sucks, it's coming out one way or the other.


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## RandyB1986 (Jan 2, 2009)

The thing I like the most is when people tear siding off and remove old cheap flashing....then put in new cheap flashing. I can't stand the step flashing that can be purchased ready to use. I make all my own flashing....from color matched coil stock. I don't replace step flashing under siding.....unless needed.


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## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

What's wrong with preformed step flashing? Why go to the trouble to make your own when you can buy it ready to go? Seems like a waste.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

superseal said:


> And, I can't really grasp residential vs. commercial altering my thought process...a roof is a roof is a roof.
> 
> Heck, some of my residential work is the size of Sm. commercial. I don't change my ways :no:



I can't say a roof is a roof is a roof quite the same as all that. There are lightweight materials and there are higher quality materials. 

Choosing to hold a higher standard means there is work that is below the level of work we are willing to perform.

Lightweight step flashing is functional if properly installed. Even .014" aluminum will outlast an entry level shingle roof.



TFaulkner said:


> What's wrong with preformed step flashing? Why go to the trouble to make your own when you can buy it ready to go? Seems like a waste.


Because most preformed aluminum step flashing is .014" or less and is really lightweight crap. Even siding trim coil is .019".


It's a shame that even the wholesale supplies carry and ship this crap and call it standard.


OP -

MJW pretty well nailed it. There are many cases where it can be reused.

Properly installed, step flashing is to be nailed to the wall anyway, not the roof. :whistling


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## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

Ahh gotcha, I don't use aluminum flashings...stick with painted galvanized. Much tougher and looks great.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

funny i just happened to have to fix one this weekend:thumbup:

must have been leaking since the house was built,roofer didn't use the existing step flashing cause there wasn't any,just what looked to be a continuous galv flashing under the wood siding


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

Mr Latone said:


> Properly installed, step flashing is to be nailed to the wall anyway, not the roof. :whistling


I guess I've been doing brick chimneys and walls all wrong :whistling


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

jmiller said:


> I guess I've been doing brick chimneys and walls all wrong :whistling


Yeah me too. Could've sworn I was doing it right all this time. I have a lot of roofs with improperly nailed step flashing.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

I have a reroof on a farm house comming up soon, putting a steel roof on. Will be pulling the steel siding because of leaks now so we can flash behind it and over the steel roof. Has shingles on now that are a mess. I usally only do reroof as part of a complete package, so reflash then side over with new siding.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I'm actually surprised by the number of posters who would reuse galvy and aluminum steps and counters ...call me anal, but why would you not take the opportunity to up sell a project and to ensure your reputation and warranty 

Technically, under IRC, it is a required replacement if not "like new" and quite frankly don't run into this much after 25 or 30 years. Holes. dents, tears and bent flashing could technically be flagged by an inspector 

Personally, I feel re-use is a disservice to the customer and would rarely condone this practice. 

As far as proper installation, I hand nail two nails up high on the roof deck portion of the flange. 

Have I been wrong all these years?

No personal attack here, just trying to futher the discussion.

Here's a link to the GAF site on this matter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzOn_8t4mZ4


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I only replace them when it is absolutely necessary and when doing a 5 Star warrantied roof for Certainteed.

Out of curiosity, how many roofs do you guys do a week?


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

superseal said:


> .......
> 
> As far as proper installation, I hand nail two nails up high on the roof deck portion of the flange. ......
> 
> ...


About 20 years ago I was sure that was the way to nail them.

As a sub I had this very discussion with a contractor. I believe the conversation was respectful as far as our mutual commitment to quality. He did provide me with a reference to nailing, but I don't recall offhand what it was. It may have been HARK (Handbook of Applied Roofing Knowledge) of which I have an old copy somewhere.

Anyway, if I can locate the source I will. it does make sense to nail to the wall and not the roof. Of course masonry walls present another challenge.

I always nail to the wall _when possible_ although high nails on the roof side don't pose a significant issue IMO.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Mr Latone said:


> Anyway, if I can locate the source I will. it does make sense to nail to the wall and not the roof. Of course masonry walls present another challenge.
> 
> I always nail to the wall when possible although high nails on the roof side don't pose a significant issue IMO.


How does that make sense? Buildings and homes shift. If the flashing is nailed to the wall, the flashings will pull and lift off the roof deck and push the shingle up.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

I don't leave the shingle loose on the wall. I lay a shingle over the step, put a nail an inch above the normal nail line, cover the nail with the next pc of step and the next shingle, and repeat.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> How does that make sense? Buildings and homes shift. If the flashing is nailed to the wall, the flashings will pull and lift off the roof deck and push the shingle up.


Most likely if the step flashing is against a wood wall, the siding or some component of the siding will be nailed through the flashing. If the flashing is not attached to the roof deck free movement is preserved.

With a masonry wall, the flashing is attached to only the roof deck. The counter-flashing is attached to the masonry. Free movement between the roof deck and masonry is preserved.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i don't care how you guys nail it,just put the stuff in


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## TFaulkner (Apr 26, 2011)

The whole point of step flashing is that the water will hit the next shingle before it crawls in far enough to hit the felt and get inside the house right? Knowing that, I don't have a problem sinking a nail in the lower area of the flashing as long as it's not near the wall. 

Plus I've seen too many houses where something moved, shifted, or warped and now the step flashing is lifting the shingle up and the wall looks like garbage.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Out of curiosity, how many roofs do you guys do a week?


*I* do 1-2 a week. Nobody up here works for a living anymore. No work except the stormers running Hispanics. They are only doing one or so a week. The stormers trying to get even the smallest hail dents approved and it takes them months. Mostly just tons of signs on properties and hardly no work going on.


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