# Neighbor won't let me on to his property to side the house I'm working on



## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm trying to finish a house that is within 1' of the property line, and the neighbor and homeowner had a falling out. The neighbor will not allow me to go onto his property to finish my work. What legal recourse do I have? I have called the Sheriff, but they don't want to be involved and said I have no legal recourse, but he was talking out of his  I know I can't possibly be the first case in Michigan. This has to happen all the time in big cities and commercial.


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## Builderbob 72 (Dec 15, 2010)

Swing staging? Not cheap, but if you push the cost to the HO, that might be the hot button to patch things up with the neighbor..


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

LEO not talking out his azz.

All they can enforce is penal code, court orders & city/county regs codified into law. 

What you have is a civil problem. 

You didn't have these access issues spelled out in your contract?

Check with the city and also what the deeds may say about access.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have seen them pump jack things mounted the reverse way for mounting closer to the house. I have no experience with them but seen it done a few times.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Sometimes zero clearance lots have an easement which gives one the right to use the property of another person or they have the "right of way" which gives the homeowner right to pass over or across the property of another person to perform maintenance, etc on their own property, etc. Have the Homeowner you working for to find out if that's the case there.


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## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

Any chance a genie boom would reach it. We have used 75 ft ones to go over roofs and work on the other side of the house before.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

greg24k said:


> Sometimes zero clearance lots have an easement which gives one the right to use the property of another person or they have the "right of way"


That's exactly what you do. I'm thinking that there may already be one in place for the purpose of public utilities. 

I had a similar situation where the neighbor was just saying no because she could. My customer went to court and pleaded his case stating that he needed to preserve his property and prevent neighborhood blight. 30 days later it was all done and we didn't even have to notify the neighbor. I went and did my work and it didn't become an incident but that's how we got around it.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

Getting in there with a boom isn't feasable. One foot is equal to my foot. I couldn't swing a hammer or even have my bent arm not protrude nto his property. Ever try to side with your nose against the house? It would be dangerous as well. It's already put me in danger having to work on the fascia from the roof rather than off a ladder. There is a power line there as well.

I found this, which is helpful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvic...va_neighbor_wont_let_me_on_their_property_to/


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

These instances always amaze me. It happens a LOT too.

How can anyone live peacefully where you let (what probably is) a minor spat that escalates into stupidity then have to look over their shoulders every time they walk out the door? Some people are too stubborn for their own good.

I had to do this once. 

I found out from my client what the snit was about, then knocked on the neighbors door and played helpless as just the guy in the middle trying to do my job. The wife started some histrionics but the husband was next to her and once he got her to shut up, walked outside with me and we got it all handled nicely.

In that case the spat was something about one daughter not getting invited to a birthday party or some such nonsense.

My suggestion if you haven't tried already is to play the innocent guy in the middle diplomatically, get the job done and GTFO with your check.

Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

Edit and PS

Or just spray the house that faces them bright pink or another obnoxious color that they have to look at until they cry uncle. That was another one that just happened that I forgot about that made the news in my home town.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

With things the way they are do you have a fence to contend with stopping you from having more room? 

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Is this the same job with the zoning issue and the stop work order?

What does your contract say about access?


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Randy Bush said:


> With things the way they are do you have a fence to contend with stopping you from having more room?
> 
> Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk


I have a job coming up where one side will be in neighbors yard,thinking I better make sure that is in the contract.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

It is the job with the zoning issues. I was hoping that once it was settled and everyone knew what the law was, everything would settle down. I have not had a bad relationship with the neighbor, he has let us access throughout the project.


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

There is no contract with the neighbor or the homeowner. I do a large majority of my work for this homeowner on numerous rental houses and projects of his. He doesn't ask a price, I just send a bill. In a weeks time I might work on a half dozen properties(sometimes on the same day) He is also my cousin. I will look into a utility egress, it's been there for 60 years, probably nothing in writing.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Just go talk face to face with the guy...He might not like his neighbor, but he may at least respect your for asking a perfectly legitimate question of 
"how else do you fooking expect me to do the impossible?"


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

The stupid crap that people invent to make their lives more interesting is unbelievable to me! 
Does the neighbour work a 9-5 job? I'd just do your thing while he's at work, and play dumb when he asks how you did it. Don't put any tools or materials on that side maybe, just to be safe.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I once had a woman scream at me with such venom because my little 18v cordless vac was a few inches over the property line. 

She later came over and asked very nicely if I could look at a sticking door in her house.

I refused. Wasn't going to risk opening that can of crazy again.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Hurry up and do that wall, it's gotta take a while to get a court order to tell you you can't. Hall buns and start at 4am.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

abacab said:


> I'm trying to finish a house that is within 1' of the property line, and the neighbor and homeowner had a falling out. The neighbor will not allow me to go onto his property to finish my work. What legal recourse do I have? I have called the Sheriff, but they don't want to be involved and said I have no legal recourse, but he was talking out of his  I know I can't possibly be the first case in Michigan. This has to happen all the time in big cities and commercial.


Let's see: The Sheriff doesn't want to get involved in a property dispute.

Doesn't that work 2 ways?

So, what's the problem?

No fence. 

Why haven't you gotten this job done is what I ask...


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

The Sheriff doesn't want to get involved in a property dispute because it is a civil matter. Not a criminal matter.

If you go on his property without authority it is called trespassing. You can get away with it the first time, but the Sheriff will give you a warning. If you do it again, you get arrested. Trespassing is a criminal matter. This is of course if there aren't any "No Trespassing" signs out.

This is assuming the property line is clearly marked. Most likely it isn't. If you claim you are on the correct property and the neighbor is lying about where the property line is located, it becomes a civil matter again. The Sheriff's department can't decide where the property line is located. Providing it is not clearly marked.

So, the neighbor claims the property line is 12" from the house. You claim it is 12" from the neighbor's house.

I would talk with the neighbor. Play the middleman stuck between a rock and a hard spot. Maybe it will work. 

Since there is no contract, you could always bill him for the work completed. It's not your fault you can't do everything he wants done. When he works it out with the neighbor you can finish.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

builditguy said:


> The Sheriff doesn't want to get involved in a property dispute because it is a civil matter. Not a criminal matter.
> 
> If you go on his property without authority it is called trespassing. You can get away with it the first time, but the Sheriff will give you a warning. If you do it again, you get arrested. Trespassing is a criminal matter. This is of course if there aren't any "No Trespassing" signs out.
> 
> ...



I don't know what the law is in other states about tresspass but here in MO, if it's not properly posted. It's a class D misdemeanor. Which is a small fine. I'd follow the above advise & get in & out & take the chance of being fined.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

Have a talk with the neighbor and advise him that you will take utmost care of his property and that when you are done he will have a better view to look at for the next 20 years


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

abacab said:


> I'm trying to finish a house that is within 1' of the property line, and the neighbor and homeowner had a falling out. The neighbor will not allow me to go onto his property to finish my work. What legal recourse do I have? I have called the Sheriff, but they don't want to be involved and said I have no legal recourse, but he was talking out of his  I know I can't possibly be the first case in Michigan. This has to happen all the time in big cities and commercial.


Your customer needs a maintenance easement from the neighbor. Either the neighbor signs one, or the HO has to take the neighbor to court to get one (not a gimmee).


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

pinwheel said:


> I don't know what the law is in other states about tresspass but here in MO, if it's not properly posted. It's a class D misdemeanor. Which is a small fine. I'd follow the above advise & get in & out & take the chance of being fined.


There's the law, and there is what law enforcement would actually do. Around here, they'll just tell you that criminal trespass is a civil matter, and do nothing.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

griz said:


> Check with the city and also what the deeds may say about access.


Yes, check the *neighbor's* deed for an easement that allows maintenance access to that side. It may not show up on the deed (if it was filed separately), but will show up doing a quick title search.

When a structure is built in violation of side lot setback rules, it has to go through getting a variance from the city. Every time I've gone through this, I was required to get a maintenance easement from the abuttor if there wasn't one already.


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## Frank Castle (Dec 27, 2011)

Creter said:


> Have a talk with the neighbor and advise him that you will take utmost care of his property and that when you are done he will have *a better view to look at for the next 20 years*


:laughing:


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

I think waiting until they go to work and then busting A** would be the route I would go, or walk up to the neighbor hat in hand and just play the victim "I need to finish to feed the kids, blah blah blah"


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

I have dealt with this situation three times. In one case, the city told us that we were allowed access onto the neighbor's property if necessary to maintain our customer's property. We had an attorney involved, and my impression is that this right is very common if not universal. The neighbor put it in writing that we were not allowed access. When we did the work, we told the station captain what we were going to do, and the day of the work we climbed onto the neighbor's property with ladders. They called the police, the police came out (all ready to cite us for trespassing), we gave them the station captain's number, they called the captain, talked to him, and told the neighbors to leave us alone, that if they interfered with us they could be arrested for assault.

The second case was a garage roof job. The neighbor wouldn't allow access to the roofers - they put it in writing. The roofer said no problem, and left half a tear-off thrown down on the neighbor's yard. The neighbor came out and had a fit, and demanded that the roofer pay the neighbor's handyman to clean it up, and the roofer just laughed and drove away with a pile of 50-year old roof blowing around in the neighbor's driveway and yard. _No problemo_.

In the third case, a neighbor had tried to prevent the power company from getting access to do some work for a customer. Threats of lawsuits, lawyer letters to the power company. The power company waited around the corner one morning until the neighbor left for work, then just swarmed the property and got the work done.

I'm not interested in hearing or getting involved in the dramas. Some people are just like that; there aren't always two sides to a story. Find out what your rights are, or the customer's rights are, and proceed accordingly.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> In one case, the city told us that we were allowed access onto the neighbor's property if necessary to maintain our customer's property. We had an attorney involved, and my impression is that this right is very common if not universal.


Around here, it's called easement by necessity - you don't have to have a written easement to actually have an easement if it's necessary.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

Frank Castle said:


> :laughing:


That is awesome!


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## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

I am amazing what some a holes can do. We had a customer who bought a lakefront lot that had access via a easement across the neighbors lot. All was well and we built the cottage. The customer had his electrician put in the service. He dug it down the side of the driveway. A few years pass and the property which the easement passed through was sold and new owners took possession. They immediately didn't get along with my customer and started a feud over a boathouse my customer wanted to build. They said it would wreck their view of the Lake. Somehow they discovered that the power line had been dug slightly over the easements and was on their property for a short distance by several feet. Not sure how they did it, but they got his power disconnected in the middle of winter. Since my customers didnt use the cottage in the winter, by the time they discovered that the heat had been off for some time much damage had been done to the plumbing ect. Ect. Never ceases to amaze me. I repaired all the damage, he had the wire moved. The battle continues and he is still fighting them in court.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Well, I'll confess to being a lakefront pr*ck - wrt to a maintenance easement. Abuse the privilege - and get a slap upside - so to speak.


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## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

Funny part is you cant even see the neighbors house from the driveway. Its over the hill. Lot was created by previous owner and I guess they never thought about giving extra width for the hydro line. Wasn't my problem. I got involved after the foundation was already started and the hydro was in. We started out supplying a log shell and ended up with the whole job.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Offer the neighbor 50 bucks


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> In one case, the city told us that we were allowed access onto the neighbor's property if necessary to maintain our customer's property. We had an attorney involved, and my impression is that this right is very common if not universal. The neighbor put it in writing that we were not allowed access. When we did the work, we told the station captain what we were going to do, and the day of the work we climbed onto the neighbor's property with ladders. They called the police, the police came out (all ready to cite us for trespassing), we gave them the station captain's number, they called the captain, talked to him, and told the neighbors to leave us alone, that if they interfered with us they could be arrested for assault.


That's a good lawyer right there...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Offer the neighbor 50 bucks


Or a bottle of Makers Mark.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Or a bottle of Makers Mark.


What's the neighborhood like? Maybe some Mad Dog 20/20 Wild Irish Rose....lol


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> ....a neighbor had tried to prevent the power company from getting access to do some work for a customer. Threats of lawsuits, lawyer letters to the power company. The power company waited around the corner one morning until the neighbor left for work, then just swarmed the property and got the work done.....





A&E Exteriors said:


> Offer the neighbor 50 bucks


Later conversation I had with the power company rep - he had gone to the neighbors to talk some sense into them, and the neighbor had said he'd stop objecting for $20,000. The work was to move a service splice, and would benefit the neighbor by moving the service from right in front of their bedroom window.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

muskoka guy said:


> .... Somehow they discovered that the power line had been dug slightly over the easements and was on their property for a short distance by several feet. ....


They might have been wrong about how they went about it, but I could be a prick about a matter of several feet. Over time, mistakes become rights.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

A&E Exteriors said:


> What's the neighborhood like? Maybe some Mad Dog 20/20 Wild Irish Rose....lol


I can tell you've had some experience! :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Had a similar issue with a house that we have done a lot of work at. They wanted their siding replaced, but the neighbor wouldn't let them use their drive, which is 4' from their house. There was no way they were setting up ladders and jacks in that 4'. I passed. Another company took the job and they were given a hard time. Complained the whole time and watched them like a hawk. Any time anything got dropped on the ground, they would come out and tell them how messy they were and that they had better pick up every single piece of trash before they left or they would call the cops for littering. Too bad they didn't know at the time that you can't get a ticket around here for littering on private property.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

tedanderson said:


> That's exactly what you do. I'm thinking that there may already be one in place for the purpose of public utilities.
> 
> I had a similar situation where the neighbor was just saying no because she could. My customer went to court and pleaded his case stating that he needed to preserve his property and prevent neighborhood blight. 30 days later it was all done and we didn't even have to notify the neighbor. I went and did my work and it didn't become an incident but that's how we got around it.


Yes, I would say 99% of the time there is.


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## WebCon (Dec 11, 2015)

What a pain. Hope you have access in the contract or at least learned from your experience.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

So what finally happened here. Did you come to some agreement? update please.


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## AccurateCut (Mar 20, 2015)

Call the news and tell em domestic terrorism:thumbup:


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm leaving that side for last. I will let you know what I'm going to do after I do it, but I have more room than I thought according to the survey. I have 15.54 inches on one end and 20.6 inches on the other.:whistling


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Good on you for sticking with your client!

That must one be one heck of a dispute going on between the neighbors.

I would have charged for what I had done and walked until they got their crap together.

Keep us posted.:thumbsup:


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## carp.addict (Dec 26, 2015)

I don't get how some municipalities allow the zoning of single detached residential buildings to be so close together.

Around here there is a 4' restriction on setbacks that would really help in situations like this.


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