# Mudding/taping suggestions/help



## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

Hey guys. A few of us are redoing a friends kitchen. We lifted the floor, tore it all down, hung new drywall, did electricty...and are to the mudding/taping part. I've done this one maybe two times....but can't remember all of the particulars. I'd like this to turn out good, so any help you guys can give would be great. I would just like to have my tape stay good and tight, have the seams look nice and level/smooth, and not have any cracks later on. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

Also, when is this right...I put down a first coat of mud(kind of thick)...then put the tape on that.....and scrape the excess mud off from underneath the tape. Next, sand...and reapply using larger knives.....and do it one more time(3 total). Is that how I do it.....I'm sure once I start, it will all come back. I only have a 8,12,14 inch knives....will this be good enough? Also...finally, If we use the proform(I think) mud....do we have to add anything to it(water)??

Thanks guys!!!!
Brad


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Use 90 minute setting compound
Apply the mest tape on flat seems, use paper tape in the inside corners, use plastic bead on the outside corners.
Apply first layer of mud about 5 inches wide
Wait about 30 minutes (No sanding if you did it right, just knock off any ridges with your drywall knife)
Apply second layer of mud about 10 inches wide
Wait about 30 minutes (No sanding if you did it right)

You're either done at that point with a 2nd coat and can sand or go onto a 3rd coat wider than the last, let dry and sand.


----------



## DaveH (Jun 2, 2006)

Or... If you don't want to mess with fast setting compound (as some people are not familiar with it's requirements) Use standard all purpose compound with paper tape for everything. And follow the above directions. You will need to allow for A LOT more drying time between coats maybe even a day between...Your choice...no right or wrong here:thumbup:


----------



## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

No offense, but I'd rather go with Dave's route. As that is the way I've done it a time or two before. 


So going that route, when laying the paper tape, and the first mud coat......how do you go about doing that. I understand the rest of mudding.....time/patience/precision. Just need suggestions/know how on the first coat. Thanks....


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Using paper instead of mesh means 2 coatings instead of one.

Coat the joint with mud, then go back and lay the tape on the mud, press it in, then coat it again. Make sure you have the paper totally saturated and in contact with the mud or you will get bubbles. Careful sanding between coats because you will burr the tape...make sure you don't have any mud on your hands while handling the tape or it will stick to it and harden and you get burr and lumps... 

Mesh means, apply the mesh, (it sticks by itself), apply the mud, very simple, very easy, excellent results each and every time. If you like more than 4 times the time and work for the same results use paper.

You said


> I would just like to have my tape stay good and tight, have the seams look nice and level/smooth, and *not have any cracks later on.*


Doing what I suggested will give you those results. An idiot can get the results you want with what I told you, doing it the way you now want to will take some skills. 

Setting compounds dry much, much harder than drying compounds, they also are far easier to sand and far easier to get good smooth results, they also bridge bigger gaps with no concerns of drying out and cracking like drying compounds will each and every time.


----------



## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

Ok Mike......I'll sure consider that. I'm not the one buying the supplies, so I have to use what he gets. I will however, put in an "order" for the supplies you suggested. 

I've seen that mesh tape.....I guess I always thought it would be too thick, and be noticeable. Is that stuff sticky....or how does it get held on the first time?? 


And....you say to use the paper tape on inside corners....is that the wall to ceiling corner too?? We have no outside corners. 

Finally, any other suggestions with the mud?? I see the types of mud, do I just open it and go?? The guy I used to work with took a big drill and a mixing bit...and mixed it up real well. Is that all I need to do?


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

The mesh tape sticks by itself, it isn't thicker, if anything it is thinner. At least convince him to get you a roll of that, it is the difference of grabbing one large spool of paper tape or one small spool of paper tape and one small spool of mesh tape.:thumbsup: 

I guarantee if you cloned yourself and raced yourself you would 1st coat seams 4 to 1 using mesh over paper.

Paper goes on the wall to ceiling seams too.

Now you could really go wild and get plastic inside corners too!:whistling 

If you are going to be using drying compound it comes right out of the bucket, you can mix it up using a 1/2" drill to make it creamier. You can add all kinds of stuff to it, guys talk about dish soap and all kinds of stuff, probably somewhere somebody is adding chicken blood to the stuff for whatever perception they have convinced themselves it does. The truth is if adding corn flakes to it was beneficial the manufacturer would be already adding it right out of the factory, wouldn't you think?

If you move up to setting compounds they will be dry powder and you will have to mix them. Part of the beauty of them is being able to mix them to different consistancies.

Just today all I had was 90 minute mud on the job, my helper created a hole about 5"x3" that needed to be patched in a just completed wall that we had textured and painted. By mixing my 90 minute setting compoud with hot water it turned into 5 minute compound. I mixed it thick, about twice as thick as peanut butter. I applied it over mesh, set a fan on it and within 5 minutes it was ready to be textured, 5 minutes later it was painted over. That's about as close to magic as you are going to get.


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

FWIW, and Mike be easy on me. THE biggest mistake I see DIY/homeowners make when using pre mixed bucket mud is thinking they can pop the top, fill their mud pan and go to work....uh ah. If you want to make life easier you need to mix AND add water. You can do this by the bucket if you know your going to go through a 3-5gal pail in a day's time first coating a room/s or you can get a seperate container, fill up with X amount of pre mix, add a lil water and mix until you get a mayonase type consistancey, which is alot thinner than how it comes in the bucket/box from the store. 

A "light" and smooth mud is 100x's easier to apply and get excellent results than the stiff/thick consistency it comes out of box as.

Remember thin coats, it's a hole lot easier to add more then sand your azz off...especially in a brand new kitchen which usually adjoins the main living room of a home. Dust gets everywhere so being dilgent will cut typical sanding by at least 80%. About the only time you should ever need to sand is to blend/feather in a mudded edge into wall board to smooth the transition, everything else should be fine from your smooth final coat on joints.


----------



## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

Ok guys......wow.....that is a TON of help. I will definately consider everything here, and I am going to go with that mesh tape everywhere we can I think. I'm not sure about the premix mud, as I don't really know the consistency it should be at(how much water to add). I don't know....I might look into some though. And yes, I do plan on spending a lot of time, to reduce sanding. If adding a bit of water will help it go smoother, I'm sure up to try it. I hate sanding.....so if I can keep from that, I sure will try. 


One more thing(unless you guys can think of anything else). Well actually two things. First....what sizes of knives do you guys use?? Next, what have you found to be the easiest way to sand....like what do you use for sanding?? 

Thanks again...I really appreciate everything!!!
Brad


----------



## DaveH (Jun 2, 2006)

Mike,
The reason I suggested using premix was the fact that we're dealing with a novice here. The fact is he's not going to know what consistency to mix to, or how much to make up at one time. Also using a "hot" mud can be unforgiving to a guy who will be working very slowly and will probably not lay the the stuff on smooth and slick. If he is going to try the "hot" mud then by all means use mesh tape, it sets harder so the strength in the long haul will not be an issue. However if he's using a premix compound the paper tape is needed. Also he may or may not have access to a 1/2" drill and paddle for mixing the stuff

IHI,
Your suggestion of a light weight all purpose such as...
USG - Plus 3 or
Gold Bond - Light
Is good for a first timer. It goes on easy and the inevitable globs and thick areas will knock down with sand paper easier. I would suggest using a mesh screen for sanding, and get a hand sander to use it with. The screen cost more but it last much longer and gives better results.

As far as mixing it to a good consistency.
For a small job he can take some premix and put it into his pan (about 1/3 full) and add a couple table spoons of water and mix it with his mud knife by folding it in. You want it creamy, but not so loose it falls right off the knife. Even mud right out of the bucket if churned a little with a knife will be workable.

Everyone's suggestions here will work, and have worked for many people, it just depends on your comfort level...


----------



## DaveH (Jun 2, 2006)

I start with a 4" knife
Apply your mud to the joints
Press in the tape, and skim off the excess with a 6-8"
Then on your first skim use an 6" or 8" 
Last skim use a 12"
Only sand prior to your last skim if there are some "boogers" that will keep you from skiming smoothly. If you do have to make sure you brush or vacuum off the dust prior to your last skim so your mud will stick good. Also clean the walls before painting.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

IHI said:


> FWIW, and Mike be easy on me. THE biggest mistake I see DIY/homeowners make when using pre mixed bucket mud is thinking they can pop the top, fill their mud pan and go to work....uh ah.


and I'll just reinforce your advice about using a mud pan, because the 2nd biggest mistake is working out of the bucket itself instead of transfering what you need out of it. When they do that they end up with dried mud around the sides that flakes and falls into the mix and ruins any chance of smoothly applying mud after that.:clap:


----------



## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

"BOOGERS"????? I love it.

If you still have questions there is a book available at most hardware stores written by two (light on their loafers) Scottish tapers : Ben Dover and Phil McCrevice!!! Some good reading :thumbsup: !!!


----------



## Bradracer18 (Dec 14, 2005)

Ok guys... I think I've got enough here to do it. I have the 1/2" drill and bit. I've got a lot of tools, as I used to frame. I've also done some drywalling.....just been quite some time, and I was young and didn't care to watch a whole lot....lol. I think the advice you guys have given me will help aid me in making it look the best that I can....which is what I was looking for. 

Thanks a lot guys!!!

Brad


----------



## updatelee (Jun 12, 2006)

a fan and some flood lights will heat up the room and keep the air moviing, this will help with your drying time as well.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

updatelee said:


> a fan and some flood lights will heat up the room and keep the air moviing, this will help with your drying time as well.


Agree on the fan for sure. Even with setting compounds my little might blower speeds along the drying like you wouldn't believe!:thumbsup:


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

DaveH said:


> Mike,
> The reason I suggested using premix was the fact that we're dealing with a novice here. The fact is he's not going to know what consistency to mix to, or how much to make up at one time. Also using a "hot" mud can be unforgiving to a guy who will be working very slowly and will probably not lay the the stuff on smooth and slick.


Yeah, but it sure is fun hearing the stories the first time it starts to go off in the pan, his mixing bucket, his mixer, and all his tools when he goes off to answer his cell phone and comes back 20 minutes too late!:clap:


----------



## ron schenker (Dec 11, 2005)

> I would suggest using a mesh screen for sanding, and get a hand sander to use it with. The screen cost more but it last much longer and gives better results.


And when you're done just flip it around and use the fresh other side to sand with:clap:


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

If your looking for the priom BEST advise: call a taper/drywaller...not the big guys but the small fellas like most of us, you will be very suprised at how cheaply they can come in and get a room done for fair pricing that will expediate your project and most likely give better results quicker and cleaner:laughing: These words will ring loud and clear in a few days when your sanding your azz off :laughing: :laughing: :w00t:


----------

