# A/C Estimate



## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

I have a raised ranch finished above, completely open below. Each floor 1000 s.f. All ducts are in for use with the heating system. The trunk duct line runs next to the center stick beams. All registers are through the floor, nothing in the attic. New house with all updated flex ducts that branch out. Looking to get a split system set up with the condenser outside and tap into the existing inside. How much would that approximately cost? Thinking 5 ton, 7 at the most(overkill?)13 seer. Dont want to spend crazy money on the new hydroair and more efficient systems. House is in new england, AC is used from june to september, july and august alot. I know there is a method to sizing the system, so any help in pricing with install or sizing the unit would be appreciated.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

Also house is moderately open to southern exposure. A large tree in front and in back. Also insulation is high all windows are new and attic is insulated well. cathedral ceilings in main living/dining to about 11 ft. 6/12 roof. about a third of the house is shaded.


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## westernhvac (May 26, 2008)

What is the r value in the walls, the ceiling, glazing square footage and which direction does it face? What is your latitude? What is the percentage of shade on each side of your home? How much of the basement is above grade? What is the flooring over basement? How many appliances? How many people will be living there? Should I continue?


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## delta l (Jan 5, 2008)

MattK said:


> I have a raised ranch finished above, completely open below. Each floor 1000 s.f. All ducts are in for use with the heating system. The trunk duct line runs next to the center stick beams. All registers are through the floor, nothing in the attic. New house with all updated flex ducts that branch out. Looking to get a split system set up with the condenser outside and tap into the existing inside. How much would that approximately cost? Thinking 5 ton, 7 at the most(overkill?)13 seer. Dont want to spend crazy money on the new hydroair and more efficient systems. House is in new england, AC is used from june to september, july and august alot. I know there is a method to sizing the system, so any help in pricing with install or sizing the unit would be appreciated.


You don't need 5 - 7 tons (probably get by with 2.5 - 3 tons. You want one that will run almost constantly on the hottest days.

Before you have any contractors to your home, ask them if they do heat calcs to size equipment. It will save you a lot of time and frustration.

Don't be 'impressed' with: "I've been in the business for 30 years....blah blah blah" or use square footage rules of thumb.

You can do your own heat calc. Google hvac-calc.

Delta


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## LawnGuyLand (Jan 1, 2008)

delta l said:


> You don't need 5 - 7 tons (probably get by with 2.5 - 3 tons. You want one that will run almost constantly on the hottest days.
> 
> Before you have any contractors to your home, ask them if they do heat calcs to size equipment. It will save you a lot of time and frustration.
> 
> ...


I agree, but answer me this... When a development goes in with 200 identical houses, but each is oriented differently, and some buyers opted for the bigger thermopane windows, and other buyers opted for laminate floors instead of carpet, and some got black roofs and others got white, do you do a manual j for each one?


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## NickTech (Feb 13, 2005)

technically yes, each home will have its own heat loss and heat gain "personallity" do to construction factors. but i doubt it's done. with automated CAD programs it wouldn't be too hard to change HTM factors, but again i doubt it's ever done.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Use This to determine what size system you need.

And cross your fingers the duct work is big enough.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

I got a few estimates in the 3300 range for R22 and the 3800 range for R410A. Is there really a large disparity between the systems. Also, is there a huge profit margin for this type of job, i rough estimate materials at between 2000 and 2300. Should take about an entire day to install. Why so much upcharge? Unfortunately, they are getting the prices so no need to lower down.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Because the contractor needs to make a living and pay all of his overhead. Go for the newer R410A system, R22 is going to be phased out like R12 was.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

They ain't making much money at those prices.


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## NickTech (Feb 13, 2005)

air handler, condensing unit, duct work, boots, registers, t-stat line set, plumbing, electric, and labor for 3300 to 3800???? does this guy owe you money? unless this is a side job(which is even super low for that) this sounds way to low to be a good job. cheap equipment and shotty work at best.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

By his post.
This is an add on to a furnace.
He said all the duct work is in.


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## gene2 (Apr 27, 2009)

We require a seemingly huge markup because the business is more cyclical & dependent on good weather just to perform the job. Even very carefully designing & installing or servicing can result in a lot of lost productivity with clients that have a poor conception of what is involved in providing their comfort. 

Then there is the fact that I was taught by one of the best that "What we are doing here is precision guesswork" Any in this trade who has been around the block has dealt with something even the factory can't explain. Tract houses that are the same have variables that causes headaches. If you value your reputation, you do whatever it takes & end up eating the cost. Very seldom, if ever do we get reimbursed for the factory's or someone else's mistake. If we don't get such a huge markup, we eventually go broke.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

NickTech said:


> air handler, condensing unit, duct work, boots, registers, t-stat line set, plumbing, electric, and labor for 3300 to 3800???? does this guy owe you money? unless this is a side job(which is even super low for that) this sounds way to low to be a good job. cheap equipment and shotty work at best.


 
Not half that, it is an add on to a furnace, plumbing is completed for the condensate pump. There is a plug for the pump in good positioning. All duct work is done, the basement is unfinished for now and all above floor rooms are finished. Just the Condenser and A coil, and obviously freon lines, etc need to be installed.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

just take the amount of $2,150 (our cost): Thats about $1,150 profit before expences, and liabilities. If one sold a/c's at the rate of tuna fish cans, than yeah I can see your gripe, but, there is more to it. There are the cost of doing business, not ment to go in detail here. 

There you have it, you can save $500 if you go with r-22. What's your pick?


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

Not trying to offend, i understand how business works. I have done jobs with a large markup as well. Just thought this was 1/3 profit for little work, most of the cost is in the material so in this case it seemed much higher than normal. My choice was R22; will only be in the house 3-4 more years and i know it will become obsolete in the near future but the savings is significant right now.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

If you know how business works.
Then you know there is no 1/3 profit in that price.


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## WarmVents (Oct 19, 2010)

delta l said:


> You don't need 5 - 7 tons (probably get by with 2.5 - 3 tons. You want one that will run almost constantly on the hottest days.
> 
> Before you have any contractors to your home, ask them if they do heat calcs to size equipment. It will save you a lot of time and frustration.
> 
> ...


I would have to agree. It depends upon where in the country you live and the size of the house. We have a system size calculator to estimate heating and cooling equipment size on our website. Just go to Warm Vents website then going down to the “Can we help you?” on the left side of the page. Click “System Size Calculator” then a window will pop up. Click on the region the house is located, type in the square footage of your home then press “Calculate” bottom. It will estimate your cooling equipment size, heating equipment size, cooling hours and degree days. Hope this helps.


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## nosweatac (Apr 16, 2010)

*Why such a high mark up?*

Installing a split system a/c unit takes a lot of skill and equipment, its not like a tv where you just set it down and plug it in. You have to take into account the equipment involved you got gauges, charging scales, refrigerant tanks, torch set up, vacuum pump, vacuum gauge, test meters, brazing rods, and miscellaneous hand tools. The average HVAC tool setup runs about $3,500.00 in just tools that are needed to correctly do an installation and each time an install is done these tools are one step closer to needing to be replaced are serviced, which ads up to a pretty high over head for the a/c company, not to mention the vehicle over head insurance and gas and vehicle maintenance and upkeep and don’t forget the business liability insurance and the license fees and permits all these items cost money on a day to day basis and required on every job . Heck I did not even get to the labor which you have to account in with this Workman’s Comp and unemployment insurance. And this still has not taken into account the cost of doing business with advertising, office space, computers, accountants, phones, heat load calculating software, code books, business cards, printing of invoices and letter head, postage, continuing education, bank fees, credit card fees, bid bonds. Why so hi a mark up? , hell after all this then there is the tax on what is left of the profit on top. Take all this into account then ask yourself at the prices you have above, how much a mark up is there ? There is just a couple hundred buck in net profit after cost at the prices you have. Trust me cheap is expensive, if you want a job for less you can be sure you will get a worthless job done. And a worthless job done, is going to have to be redone right. Costing you twice as much then if you just paid what it was worth to have it done right the first time. Think about it.


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## Clammie (Oct 23, 2010)

well put nosweatac


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## Dr Heat (Dec 25, 2008)

nosweatac said:


> Installing a split system a/c unit takes a lot of skill and equipment, its not like a tv where you just set it down and plug it in. You have to take into account the equipment involved you got gauges, charging scales, refrigerant tanks, torch set up, vacuum pump, vacuum gauge, test meters, brazing rods, and miscellaneous hand tools. The average HVAC tool setup runs about $3,500.00 in just tools that are needed to correctly do an installation and each time an install is done these tools are one step closer to needing to be replaced are serviced, which ads up to a pretty high over head for the a/c company, not to mention the vehicle over head insurance and gas and vehicle maintenance and upkeep and don’t forget the business liability insurance and the license fees and permits all these items cost money on a day to day basis and required on every job . Heck I did not even get to the labor which you have to account in with this Workman’s Comp and unemployment insurance. And this still has not taken into account the cost of doing business with advertising, office space, computers, accountants, phones, heat load calculating software, code books, business cards, printing of invoices and letter head, postage, continuing education, bank fees, credit card fees, bid bonds. Why so hi a mark up? , hell after all this then there is the tax on what is left of the profit on top. Take all this into account then ask yourself at the prices you have above, how much a mark up is there ? There is just a couple hundred buck in net profit after cost at the prices you have. Trust me cheap is expensive, if you want a job for less you can be sure you will get a worthless job done. And a worthless job done, is going to have to be redone right. Costing you twice as much then if you just paid what it was worth to have it done right the first time. Think about it.


Don't forget all the bidding and dead beat customers.


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## hvaclover (Oct 5, 2008)

How come customers who are in business always act like they are experts on hvac overhead?:no:


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## hvacrman (Nov 1, 2010)

MattK said:


> I got a few estimates in the 3300 range for R22 and the 3800 range for R410A. Is there really a large disparity between the systems. Also, is there a huge profit margin for this type of job, i rough estimate materials at between 2000 and 2300. Should take about an entire day to install. Why so much upcharge? Unfortunately, they are getting the prices so no need to lower down.


you had to go there , really.:furious:

actually we try to make our whole monthly nut on 1 job-like yours , thats all , we are just greedy.


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