# Why the crazy codes on gas/copper



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Ok guys i just posted on another thread and it reminded me about the copper being used on gas lines debate. In the last 15 years of being in this trade i have never once come across a problem with copper being used for gas lines. it's used through out the rest of the world and has been used in the UK since well before my time in the trade but the US don't allow it under code? They say that the gas eats the pipe away from inside out but i have never seen one case of this when removing old copper gas lines. I don't understand their move on this and why they don't allow it. Even www.copper.org/applications/fuelgas/pdf/Official_Copper.pdf say that it's fine for gas. 

Whats been your findings with this as i have never come across one plumber or gas worker anywhere in the world who has had this problem. But i have been told that it's not the gas that eats the pipe but the acid in some fluxes that eats the pipe from inside out!


P.S also the other thing i have come across is that when copper is allowed under ceratin conditions you are not allowed soldered fittings! and only compression. This is idiotic in my eyes as soldered is proven to me many more time reliable than compression weather it's liquid or gas and your even told to do as many soldered fitting as possible over compression in Europe! Im amazed by so many stupid codes over here.


----------



## shesaremonclus (Nov 24, 2008)

I occasionaly do work in the carribean on luxary villas and condos and we exclusively use coiled copper for our gas lines and allways flanged fittings. Even in some commericial kitchen I have seen large copper lines used. Since all construction in the area is cinder block, I belive they like to use this material since it is not rigid and it is able to be replaced by running through the conduit in the walls with out destroying the construction unlike in the us where we need to open walls for even the smallest rewire, yes the also run there electrical in pvc conduit burrried in the wall making it easy to replace wires.


----------



## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

The reason is that all natural gas is not exactly the same. Some of the supply in the US has compounds in it that will attack copper that does not have a tin lining in it. Check that web site again, I think you will find they say its OK for fuel gas, but that is a broad statement. Fuel gas can be Butane, Propane, or Methane, etc., but they also say that some areas require tin lined copper.

And just because you haven't seen it doesn't make it not so. Have you ever seen an earthquake? Do you have seismic structural requirements in your area? How about post tension slabs? How about snow loads?


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Here in Canada tonnes of copper is used, in residential I'm seeing less and less black pipe and more plastic coated flexible steel. Your not alwed to soulder the copper, compression only (I always figured it was do the the flammable nature of gas).

My father was a gas fitter and as a youngster I can remember eating alot of flack for accidently kinking copper lines...I learned the hardway you can bend it onece and only onece!


----------



## ARealplumber (Aug 11, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Ok guys i just posted on another thread and it reminded me about the copper being used on gas lines debate. In the last 15 years of being in this trade i have never once come across a problem with copper being used for gas lines. it's used through out the rest of the world and has been used in the UK since well before my time in the trade but the US don't allow it under code? They say that the gas eats the pipe away from inside out but i have never seen one case of this when removing old copper gas lines. I don't understand their move on this and why they don't allow it. Evens that it's fine for gas.
> 
> Whats been your findings with this as i have never come across one plumber or gas worker anywhere in the world who has had this problem. But i have been told that it's not the gas that eats the pipe but the acid in some fluxes that eats the pipe from inside out!
> 
> ...


The gas itself and the smelling agent can be corrossive. It causes a black metallic scale to form on the inside of the copper. This scale can be dislodged,flake off and clogg gas valves and generally cause malfuntions of the gas controls,which can be dangerous. When natural gas and the atmosphere you breathe(air) mix,it becomes even more corrossive,So a leaking joint will become worse as time foes on and will eat the copper at an accelerated rate. Compression fittings that use a nut&ferrule are not allowed. Only a flare type fitting can be used. Flare fitings are not as likely to leak from a bump or vibration as a compression type fitting. I've been using copper type l for 25 years for natural gas. It has more pro's than cons for my area. All joints must be flared or brazed. Tin lined copper is always an option too!


----------



## Leadworker (Sep 17, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Ok guys i just posted on another thread and it reminded me about the copper being used on gas lines debate. In the last 15 years of being in this trade i have never once come across a problem with copper being used for gas lines. it's used through out the rest of the world and has been used in the UK since well before my time in the trade but the US don't allow it under code? They say that the gas eats the pipe away from inside out but i have never seen one case of this when removing old copper gas lines. I don't understand their move on this and why they don't allow it.
> 
> Whats been your findings with this as i have never come across one plumber or gas worker anywhere in the world who has had this problem. But i have been told that it's not the gas that eats the pipe but the acid in some fluxes that eats the pipe from inside out!
> 
> ...


 
Your totaly wrong bro. Here in California copper and brass are allowed for gas installations. The only reason it would'nt be allowed is if the gas being used contains more than an average of 0.3grams of hydrogen sulfide per 100 scf of gas. Other than that, copper piping shall be type l or k. Look it up in section 1209.5.2.4 of the UPC code book. This book is formely adopted in California. :thumbsup:


----------

