# Fibafuse



## Alanwolf

Heard some issues with fibafuse paperless tape cracking. Wondering if it's just application error and if anyone uses it or prefers to use it over paper?


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## Redliz75

When my home was built over 6 years ago they used mesh tape and everything looks as good as the day it was finished.


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## Alanwolf

We may not be talking about the same product. Here's a link.
http://www.sg-adfors.com/Brands/FibaFuse/FibaFusePaperlessWallReinforcement


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## smuhhh

Know nothing about it but it sounds like a gimick.


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## doncando

Alanwolf said:


> Heard some issues with fibafuse paperless tape cracking. Wondering if it's just application error and if anyone uses it or prefers to use it over paper?


Fibafuse is a relatively new product and I haven't heard anything negative about it nor do I think it's a gimick.

I have used it very succesfully on butt joints. It seems to have at least as much strength as paper and significantly reduces the typical butt joint hump.

So yes, I prefer it over paper, but it's probably not necessary for inside corners or taper joints.

And, BTW, I don't care for fiberglass mesh tape.


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## Alanwolf

I agree. I think it's better than paper looking at it similarly because it truly fuses with the compound. Wondering if it would be beneficial to use it over mesh rape for large gaps? On any joints, gave you noticed if you oversand it, do the hairs pop out or do they shave off?


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## doncando

For large gaps, Fibatape makes a 6" wide mesh tape that works well. That' the one I use for patching cracks in plaster.

Fibafuse does leave little "hairs" sticking up if you oversand, but a quick swipe with some sandpaper after priming takes care of it.


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## Alanwolf

Do you think that fiba fuse is a product that could replace paper or will paper continue to be the standard


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## doncando

I think Fibabfuse COULD replace paper tape, but other than butt joints, there's no real advantage. Paper is strong enough, cheap enough, readily available, a well-tested product and in the hands of professional drywallers (which I am not) probably a little faster to install.

I keep Fibabfuse on hand mostly for repairs which, technically, are butt joints.


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## Alanwolf

Looking at all the technical data it's clearly a superior product but of course that is supplied by the company.


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## Kiwidude

*fibafuse*

I use paper tape in all my joints with hot mud.....as I do alot of smooth wall, and providing you have the right mix, won't have any cracking. Why would anyone want to change a proven method that is fool proof.

I am interested in learning more about fibafuse and would like to know how it will go with hot mud.

Hey Liz, if you have mesh you probably have texture and will not notice any cracks.


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## angus242

Paper can be tricky for the occasional installer. Bubbles behind the tape can be an issue. Fibafuse solves that problem. It's also much stronger than paper. Why wouldn't you want a solution like that?


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## VanGoghFinish

Can this Fibafuse be ran threw bango's or bazooka's?


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## Kiwidude

*fibafuse*

Angus, the only 3 reasons why there are bubbles behind the paper tape....1/ there is movement in the drywall when mudding and air is puffed in. 2/ the mix is too stiff or not enough. 3/ or ?

If you put paper tape tight between your hand and try pull it apart, you can't. I haven't tried that test with fibafuse yet, but I do look forward to seeing what it can do. 

Angus, how do you know fibafuse is stronger?


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## angus242

Kiwidude said:


> Angus, the only 3 reasons why there are bubbles behind the paper tape....1/ there is movement in the drywall when mudding and air is puffed in. 2/ the mix is too stiff or not enough. 3/ or ?
> 
> If you put paper tape tight between your hand and try pull it apart, you can't. I haven't tried that test with fibafuse yet, but I do look forward to seeing what it can do.
> 
> Angus, how do you know fibafuse is stronger?


From their sell sheet. They claim Fibafuse is 76% stronger then paper tape. Even if it's only 50%, it is still stronger. It's made from fiberglass.

I don't tape and mud often...actually hate doing it...but I'm forced to as I cannot get a pro drywaller to come tape and finish seams on 1 or 2 sheets of drywall in my bathroom remodels. To a pro like yourself, I'm sure paper tape is so easy, you could successfully install it in the dark while drunk. I struggle with paper. But beyond that, I don't use any kind of paper in my remodels. I use DensArmor drywall. I had been using a mold-resistant mesh tape but have now switched to FibaFuse. Only have tried it once but I like it. Easier to finish (to me) than much thicker mesh tape.


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## Big Shoe

Kiwidude said:


> I use paper tape in all my joints with hot mud.....as I do alot of smooth wall, and providing you have the right mix, won't have any cracking. Why would anyone want to change a proven method that is fool proof.
> 
> I am interested in learning more about fibafuse and would like to know how it will go with hot mud.
> 
> Hey Liz, if you have mesh you probably have texture and will not notice any cracks.


The only times I've used paper with hot mud is with 45 or 90. And I rarely use paper at all anymore.


As far as Fibafuse ........are we talking about their 2'' mesh tape or that cloth-type sheet on the link of the OP??


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## Paulie

VanGoghFinish said:


> Can this Fibafuse be ran threw bango's or bazooka's?


If you view the video, 'ole Myron eventually gets to using tools with it. I have yet to try it and I doubt if there is a bathroom job big enough for me to use my bazooka with it so I'll probably never know. But I will try it in my next bathroom and hand tape.

I'll stick to using good 'ole paper on large jobs and wait for the feedback after this new product is vetted for a few years.


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## Kiwidude

*fibafuse*

I agree with Paulie .....

Hey big shoe....we are talking about the paper tape replacment which is 2" roll.


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## Paulie

angus242 said:


> Paper can be tricky for the occasional installer. Bubbles behind the tape can be an issue. Fibafuse solves that problem. It's also much stronger than paper. Why wouldn't you want a solution like that?


Is Fiba Fuse self sticking like reg. mesh?


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## angus242

Nope. Installs just like paper.


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## Inner10

icerock drywall said:


> wow who is this and you say nothing about my ff work :blink:


She obviously hates your work.


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## icerock drywall

Inner10 said:


> She obviously hates your work.


she don't like me


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## intjonmiller

So you've never used it, but you have very specific recommendations about who should and shouldn't use it and when?? Fascinating. Particularly that your recommendation is against using it for repairs after Icerock beautifully demonstrated how perfectly suited it is for repairs. 

FibaFuse - I filled out the sample form thing on the website a couple days ago, but the best opportunity for me to try it would be this weekend (my day job could also benefit, but this weekend I'm doing a full hang and tape job that I rarely get to do these days). Any idea how fast those samples go out? Are you able to expedite a sample for me? I checked everywhere in town and can't find anyone who stocks it, including those who normally stock Saint-Gobain products. Thanks.


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## intjonmiller

I just reread and noticed that you said over texture. My bad. Personally I find all repairs on textured walls to be a pain for that reason. I just sand off the texture first so the patch lays on the rock instead of the texture.


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## intjonmiller

D.E.P.S. said:


> Hello FiberFuse.
> 
> I have been watching this thread for a long time and it has intrigued me to try your product on a few occasions. I recently found out that a buddy of mine who runs a drywall business with a 8 man crew has been using it for quite a while on on new work. (about 13 months) His crew hangs and finishes about 70 units a year. We had quite a long discussion as to the differences between using FibaFuse on new work and on repairs. He and I came the the same conclusion that it is a great product for new work, and not so much for repairs. Neither of us know how it will hold up in the long term with building settling, wind buffering, or chemical reaction to the drywall compound itself.
> 
> The Pro's and Con's:
> 
> 1. New work: Works very good in the flats. The tape can be buried during the taping coat with a extra swipe with compound using a stiff blade.
> 
> 2. New work: Works very well with most any compound.
> 
> 3. The FibaFuse is not as forgiving as mesh or paper tape when taping inside corners where the flats meet the corner. Any irregularities from studs, screws, or blowouts will cause the edges of the tape to vee outward showing traces of the tape edge coming though the compound. Paper tape will soften initially from the compound and makes it a little easier to work around poor hanging and other problems. Mesh tape will pretty much follow the surface it is pressed against providing it is still tacky. A novice would struggle using FibaFuse, because novices hang poorly.
> 
> 4. Be carefull when angles/corners bedding if your knife has a sharp edge. FibaFuse will cut pretty easily. I round my knife edges over so I didn't personally have a problem.
> 
> 5. While taping angles and drops, I found that I could not just snap cut the tape against my knife edge while working it into the corners. I ended up using scissors.
> 
> 6. Fibafuse is better than paper tape when knifing into the very end of corners. It does not tend to slide. No fussing at all.
> 
> 7. I personally do not recommend FibaFuse for any repair work over textured finishes. Trying to get the tape to lay down over knockdown or heavy grooved plaster is a pain. Mesh tape is more loosely woven and will follow small contours easily if it is tacky. FibaFuse tends to follow the spline of the tape which is too stiff. This means that it will require more compound to hide the repair. Mesh tape requires less compound due to it's flexability.
> 
> 8. Works about the same from machining tools as paper.
> 
> 9. I do not see FibaFuse creating a stronger joint than a paper tape used with USG green top. The shear strength of paper tape is pretty pretty darn good when it is used with green top considering the adhesives that USG puts into the product. I do see FibaFuse being a plus with all other drywall compounds because it gives the compound a chance to leach through the tape and cause a chemical interlock while it is drying. This has to be a positive.
> 
> V/R........ John


I really don't understand your logic here. FibaFuse (much like mesh tape, but in a form that works in automatic tapers, among other differences) allows the compound to flow through the tape instead of just under and on it. It's like the difference between rebar reinforced concrete and concrete that is "reinforced" with a piece of sheet metal dividing the shape down the middle. Not a perfect analogy as the adhesive in the mud will bond to the paper, but in every way it bonds paper it will bond at least as well to a fiberglass mat, and because it completely envelops each strand of the mat it will actually form a much stronger bond, all else (type of mud, for instance) being equal. This difference is well understood in many industries (auto body repair, for instance). Just because you don't see that it will be any stronger doesn't mean it isn't. It likely means that you just aren't familiar with the unique properties of this material. (I realize that this has the potential to sound offensive. I don't mean it to be. Trying to be completely objective here.)


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## intjonmiller

Unless what you mean is that you don't think any additional strength would make a difference because, when done right, paper tape is plenty strong? I would agree with that completely. The difference then is that it is easier to do FibaFuse correctly because you can push more mud right through the top of it.


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## D.E.P.S.

intjonmiller said:


> Unless what you mean is that you don't think any additional strength would make a difference because, when done right, paper tape is plenty strong? I would agree with that completely. The difference then is that it is easier to do FibaFuse correctly because you can push more mud right through the top of it.


As I stated earlier, I think FibaFuse is superior to tape for the initial bonding of materials because the compound works around the fine mesh and creates a mechanical lock. Most everyday compounds do not lock onto paper tape nearly as well. The one exception in my experience is USG green top with paper due to the adhesive qualities of green top mud. I think my initial concern with the FibaFuse strength is from taping in angles and drops with a hand tool. I cut the tape on a few occasions without doing anything unusual. If light pressure with a 4" knife can cut the fiber mesh, it leaves me to wonder about shear strength later on. I guess the only way to see is to wait a few years and see how it stands up with over time with settling, humidity cycles, temp cycles, and wind buffering. It may end up being superior to paper?
I think FibaFuse is a great product for production finishers just for the faster drying time alone. For repair work......not yet. The spline of the tape is just a little too stiff for my liking when taping over texture...... requiring more mud buildup and a wider "bust out" of the repair.


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## D.E.P.S.

intjonmiller said:


> I just reread and noticed that you said over texture. My bad. Personally I find all repairs on textured walls to be a pain for that reason. I just sand off the texture first so the patch lays on the rock instead of the texture.


Thats where I get a lot of my work. Most production guys just hate doing repairs, or they don't have the time to send one of thier guys back due to deadlines. You know how that goes. I have a few companies that are always calling to see if I have the time. It's a nice little niche for me.


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## intjonmiller

D.E.P.S. said:


> I think my initial concern with the FibaFuse strength is from taping in angles and drops with a hand tool. I cut the tape on a few occasions without doing anything unusual. If light pressure with a 4" knife can cut the fiber mesh, it leaves me to wonder about shear strength later on. I guess the only way to see is to wait a few years and see how it stands up with over time with settling, humidity cycles, temp cycles, and wind buffering. It may end up being superior to paper?


There is a HUGE difference between mechanical cutting of unbonded fiberglass mat and the stresses exerted on bonded mat. The fact that it can be cut that easily is part of what makes it easy to work with (and not just in this industry). Did you see the video link I posted earlier? Every bit of the fiberglass used in that hot tub, and thousands of other products, gets chopped before being applied. It doesn't matter. It is the total of all of the fibers that are overlapped and embedded in the resin/mud that makes it strong. If your knife cuts it before the mud sets then in that area there aren't any interlocked fibers anymore. But that's not a shocking discovery as they express that very clearly in their videos and other instructions. Just use an inside corner trowel to set it on the first coat. Problem solved.


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## TimelessQuality

icerock drywall said:


> she don't like me


We still like ya Iceman:laughing:


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## TimelessQuality

Applying any kind of tape over a texture seems just wrong....

But, I guess I know now, use paper and green top, and it's OK


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## D.E.P.S.

TimelessQuality said:


> Applying any kind of tape over a texture seems just wrong....
> 
> But, I guess I know now, use paper and green top, and it's OK



Sir, ..I never said that I use green top and paper over texture. And yes...repairs do require tape.


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## TimelessQuality

D.E.P.S. said:


> Sir, ..I never said that I use green top and paper over texture. And yes...repairs do require tape.


My bad... 'Mesh'


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## D.E.P.S.

intjonmiller said:


> There is a HUGE difference between mechanical cutting of unbonded fiberglass mat and the stresses exerted on bonded mat. The fact that it can be cut that easily is part of what makes it easy to work with (and not just in this industry). Did you see the video link I posted earlier? Every bit of the fiberglass used in that hot tub, and thousands of other products, gets chopped before being applied. It doesn't matter. It is the total of all of the fibers that are overlapped and embedded in the resin/mud that makes it strong. If your knife cuts it before the mud sets then in that area there aren't any interlocked fibers anymore. But that's not a shocking discovery as they express that very clearly in their videos and other instructions. Just use an inside corner trowel to set it on the first coat. Problem solved.


I fully understand the concept. I still want to see how it stands up over time. There is a huge difference between spraying glass with various epoxy resins, to create a boat hull, or bathtub, than a thin sheath of bonded glass fibers about 1/64" thick to be used with dywall compounds. I believe it is a legitimate concern, and worth asking questions about. Not arguing here by any means. I learn by asking and experimenting.


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## intjonmiller

D.E.P.S. said:


> I believe it is a legitimate concern, and worth asking questions about. Not arguing here by any means. I learn by asking and experimenting.


Then why the insistence on waiting years to see the results instead of listening to the direct answers to your questions? 

Why do you suppose they don't make boat hulls, tubs, and showers (and vehicle panels and...) out of paper fibers? Why bother with fiberglass if there isn't a distinct benefit?


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## icerock drywall

FibaFuse said:


> Hi all - FibaFuse is able to reinforce joints by allowing the compound to flow in and around it, fusing with the compound rather than sitting on top of it.
> I'd love to hear feedback, positive or negative - and if anyone is interested in a sample, please let me know.


I would like to have a bag of just fibers for a sample...please a big bag


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## icerock drywall

http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/california-ice-patch-4783/

here is another way I use ff


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## intjonmiller

Just got my first couple rolls of fibafuse (ordered from Amazon; still no sign of the sample). Very cool stuff. I've only used 10 or 20 feet so far on a couple window returns around a replacement window project, and only with USG green mud so far, but I'm generally liking it. 

I will definitely confirm that you need to handle it carefully and/or with gloves. I forgot what I had in my hand and tucked it under my arm when carrying several things and I've regretted it for a couple days. Fiberglass in your skin sucks. 

Just took delivery yesterday of 45 sheets for my own basement (honestly, the truck boom forklift thing is pretty much the greatest development ever), so I will have plenty of opportunity to get to know it very well. I just need to hang the rock first.


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## icerock drywall

intjonmiller said:


> Just got my first couple rolls of fibafuse (ordered from Amazon; still no sign of the sample). Very cool stuff. I've only used 10 or 20 feet so far on a couple window returns around a replacement window project, and only with USG green mud so far, but I'm generally liking it.
> 
> I will definitely confirm that you need to handle it carefully and/or with gloves. I forgot what I had in my hand and tucked it under my arm when carrying several things and I've regretted it for a couple days. Fiberglass in your skin sucks.
> 
> Just took delivery yesterday of 45 sheets for my own basement (honestly, the truck boom forklift thing is pretty much the greatest development ever), so I will have plenty of opportunity to get to know it very well. I just need to hang the rock first.


if your going to put mud on the wall then lay ff over it and then wipe it your not going to like it....you will need a mask as well as gloves and hope you don't get it in your eyes!
http://www.drywalltalk.com/f9/fibafuse-tools-4522/
if you run ff in your banjo, the mud sticks the fibers. 
After all the posts out there on ff is itchy , still people dry tape with it:wallbash:


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## intjonmiller

Hey Icerock, where do you buy your Fibafuse? I can't find it locally. I ordered a couple rolls in February from Amazon. But now I'm out and they no longer seem to directly stock it (you can get it through Amazon but sold and shipped by a 3rd party) and I haven't seen the wider rolls available anywhere.

I really underestimated how much I would need on my basement project (crazy plumbing and HVAC boxes everywhere) and had to do the last hundred feet or so with regular paper tape. The fibafuse spoiled me and I found myself needing to relearn how to do paper tape and wishing I could go get another roll somewhere in town. Now I don't want to use anything else. I got the Homax banjo and while it wasn't as smooth as I had hoped (seems to be more drag with fibafuse than paper tape and it always seemed to require more effort to run it than it should) but it was still much easier than paper tape. I was taught with all hand tools and don't do enough to justify automatic taping equipment, so I just picked up a corner trowel at Home Depot and it worked great. 

I've also done a few patches with it, California style, like you demonstrated. I'm completely sold. 

Anyway, I have more jobs to do this coming week and I'm all out, so I need to find somewhere to buy regular and wide rolls. Thanks!


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## icerock drywall

slang-da mud said:


> Great for tight joints not good in corners due to sharp knives which cut it easily. I had a client that removed a backsplash and did a number on the board so I filled and taped with the fiba fuse and it turned out great and that was just one of the many times used. Now my opinion on fiba mesh tape is that it sucks and falls apart then gets pulled through the bed coat I try and get my mesh tape from ames its the good stuff.


in the corners you need a flusher or you need to cut and sand our knife back ...and if there is a big hole in the corner fibertape it first


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