# What??? waterproofing?? It is not standard here...



## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

A tread in General just went off topic and way south....I knew there are hacks out there, but in CT???...surprised me..
http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/cool-construction-company-sign-132666/index2/


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## JWilliams (Nov 11, 2008)

just read that thread myself. thats pretty crazy.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

That thread is exactly the reason why tile is not always the number one choice for home owners who are planning a renovation. Too many contractors (some of which will fall into the "hack" category) out doing sub-par tile work.

Maybe they think they are doing their customer a favor? Maybe they just don't know better?
Customer only has so much $$,...well, we'll just throw up some green board, slap on some mastic and grout it with the cheapest product we can find. Problem is...when that grout starts to stain/mildew (give it a few months) and the installation fails...could get 5-10 years, you are now back where you started and the installation needs to be gutted.

My rule on tile installations in wet areas is pretty basic and does not change - 100% waterproof substrate - Epoxy grout. Done. 
The only reason one of my installations will be ripped out is because the homeowner doesn't like it anymoe, not because it failed.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

astor said:


> A tread in General just went off topic and way south....I knew there are hacks out there, but in CT???...surprised me..
> http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/cool-construction-company-sign-132666/index2/


Classic :laughing::laughing: You, Olzo and Precision pretty well wrapped up that one:whistling

"Yes maam... we can save you a thousand bux just by using hardie backer because the manufacturer claims it's water resistant..."
"...sign here...."

:blink::blink:


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> Classic :laughing::laughing: You, Olzo and Precision pretty well wrapped up that one:whistling
> 
> "Yes maam... we can save you a thousand bux just by using hardie backer because the manufacturer claims it's water resistant..."
> "...sign here...."
> ...


Exactly, a customer who pays $5K deserves $60 RedGuard.. at least for God's sake! Even cheapest thing out there..
Does not take much talent to paint the dawn thing!it may not be the best job, but at least triples the life of the shower.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

perhaps our friend has no idea about waterproofing? maybe he has been taught green board is well enough....

wouldn't it be better to teach the boy the ways of the modern bathroom rather than ridiculing him for doing only what he knows?! I know that the older members of this site, many no longer here, have taught me a ton of new concepts and opened my eyes to better techniques... tools that have allowed me a better living and the ability to consciously build best practice assemblies....


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

world llc said:


> perhaps our friend has no idea about waterproofing? maybe he has been taught green board is well enough....
> 
> wouldn't it be better to teach the boy the ways of the modern bathroom rather than ridiculing him for doing only what he knows?! I know that the older members of this site, many no longer here, have taught me a ton of new concepts and opened my eyes to better techniques... tools that have allowed me a better living and the ability to consciously build best practice assemblies....


Good concept, but seems like he's turning another cheap bathroom niche into a large corporation with abundant employee turnover and a cut throat sales staff... That's the only way you can do a bathroom for 5k in a week. Waterproofing will throw the time and budget making the sales commission less. He'd probably be better off selling tub liners


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

world llc said:


> perhaps our friend has no idea about waterproofing? maybe he has been taught green board is well enough....
> 
> wouldn't it be better to teach the boy the ways of the modern bathroom rather than ridiculing him for doing only what he knows?! I know that the older members of this site, many no longer here, have taught me a ton of new concepts and opened my eyes to better techniques... tools that have allowed me a better living and the ability to consciously build best practice assemblies....


come on...he knows Schulter...I hope not the _Schulter_, a town in Okmulgee County, Oklahoma:laughing:


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> Good concept, but seems like he's turning another cheap bathroom niche into a large corporation with abundant employee turnover and a cut throat sales staff... That's the only way you can do a bathroom for 5k in a week. Waterproofing will throw the time and budget making the sales commission less. He'd probably be better off selling tub liners


oh? first i'v seen of him or his posts... if he IS running a bathroom grinder than yea, all he would be concerned with is his bottom line.

i thought he might be like us, owner operator.... interested in learning newer better ways....


there are also markets in out lil country that can't even afford a 3k bath....


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

astor said:


> Exactly, a customer who pays $5K deserves $60 RedGuard.. at least for God's sake! Even cheapest thing out there..
> Does not take much talent to paint the dawn thing!it may not be the best job, but at least triples the life of the shower.


I think I would amend that to 
"Exactly, a customer who pays $5K deserves their shower to be built to TCNA standards"


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

world llc said:


> oh? first i'v seen of him or his posts... if he IS running a bathroom grinder than yea, all he would be concerned with is his bottom line.
> 
> i thought he might be like us, owner operator.... interested in learning newer better ways....
> 
> ...


Toronto is large metropolitan area with 5-6 million people, I've lived there 17 years! With a small investment-like a decent van, some tools, within 6 months you can book 4-5 jobs a week if you offer 5K-bathrooms and up sell the same thing(with some better tile) for 7K-8K. You will be booked like a hell if you offer financing...
The problem starts when all these people see their bathroom holding mold...and the city inspectors shuts it down...even may get class action lawsuit..


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

charimon said:


> I think I would amend that to
> "Exactly, a customer who pays $5K deserves their shower to be built to TCNA standards"


I meant at the very least...slap some RedGuard.:thumbsup:
what is TCNA?? he would ask...:whistling


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

Ive been around long enough to see these guys come and go. They make some quick money then usually disappear, especially with the way bad news travels now.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

The trouble is "The Basic" is for homeowners with little money. These people are the very ones that can't afford a 2-3 year tile replacement. That's a lot of money for them and they deserve waterproofing at the minimum. I hope the OP is just not aware of TCNA standards and not ripping off trusting people. 

I worry about any steam showers in the "Custom" build outs.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

olzo55 said:


> The trouble is "The Basic" is for homeowners with little money. These people are the very ones that can't afford a 2-3 year tile replacement. That's a lot of money for them and they deserve waterproofing at the minimum.


 So true. 

The most important point of any made during this "discussion".

Well said.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

It costs pennies to sub Durock for SheetRock and throw a few coats of AD over the shower/tub area. No real excuse not to.

However, to say that there WILL be mold in a year or that it will only last a few years is ridiculous. I have torn out dozens of showers built with green board that showed little to no signs of moisture, and they were used daily.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It costs pennies to sub Durock for SheetRock and throw a few coats of AD over the shower/tub area. No real excuse not to.
> 
> However, to say that there WILL be mold in a year or that it will only last a few years is ridiculous. I have torn out dozens of showers built with green board that showed little to no signs of moisture, and they were used daily.


Yeah but that durock is really heavy...


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It costs pennies to sub Durock for SheetRock and throw a few coats of AD over the shower/tub area. No real excuse not to.
> 
> However, to say that there WILL be mold in a year or that it will only last a few years is ridiculous. I have torn out dozens of showers built with green board that showed little to no signs of moisture, and they were used daily.


this is true, but rare...

I too have gutted a few 4 x 4's stuck with mastic over green board with little to no rot or mold. 

More often then not it's falling off the studs and burns the back of your throat


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

world llc said:


> this is true, but rare...
> 
> I too have gutted a few 4 x 4's stuck with mastic over green board with little to no rot or mold.
> 
> More often then not it's falling off the studs and burns the back of your throat


But that's usually stuff that has been up for decades, not a few years.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> But that's usually stuff that has been up for decades, not a few years.


for tub surrounds, yes

for showers, they usually go quicker. i did one that was 9 months old and another few that were less than 8 years


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

The poster doesn't say he uses mastic but it's the cheaper way to do the job. So I'm supposing that's the way he went. 

There is a big difference between "old" mastic and eco friendly mastics of today. And green board only helps for awhile before the water gets to it. It can come up into the board through a the tub lip area, seam, tub spout, valve, vertical edge of tub deck.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It costs pennies to sub Durock for SheetRock and throw a few coats of AD over the shower/tub area. No real excuse not to.
> 
> However, to say that there WILL be mold in a year or that it will only last a few years is ridiculous. I have torn out dozens of showers built with green board that showed little to no signs of moisture, and they were used daily.


Now how do you know they were used daily? You neighbor should get some blinds for the bathroom window.:laughing:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

olzo55 said:


> The poster doesn't say he uses mastic but it's the cheaper way to do the job. So I'm supposing that's the way he went.
> 
> There is a big difference between "old" mastic and eco friendly mastics of today. And green board only helps for awhile before the water gets to it. It can come up into the board through a the tub lip area, seam, tub spout, valve, vertical edge of tub deck.


If he caulks the bottom edge with 100% Silicone and used AD or RG over the rock he would be okay. But if you are going to go through the trouble, why not put up rock, something that isn't organic and won't crumble when it got wet.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

world llc said:


> for tub surrounds, yes
> 
> for showers, they usually go quicker. i did one that was 9 months old and another few that were less than 8 years


Tomorrow we're pulling open a 7-month-old surround.


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Tomorrow we're pulling open a 7-month-old surround.


Thats a real shame...

I just signed a tub surround that's 2 years old... Travertine with NO grour joints (they didnt use spacers)

really did a number to the plaster ceiling and wall downstairs...


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## Hank B. (May 6, 2013)

Guy who did that probably calls people who don't butt travertine hacks.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

In all fairness, the bathroom guy on the other thread deserves a pat-on-the back here.

He listened to some of the respected advice given by some of the pro's here on CT. He admitted he needed to change his method & materials.

And he was humble (yet professional) enough to do it of his own free will.

And I didn't get the impression from his posts or website that he's running a bathroom mill. He's a guy just like many of the rest of here who's trying to make a living and plan for his future.

For those here (and on the other thread) who are genuinely trying to help - THANKS! 

For those of you who are just being a pompous a$$, knock it off! :laughing:


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