# Large Precision Square



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Anybody know of a very high quality, very large, layout square?

Trying to get some better precision out of my track saws when cutting sheet goods for cabs.

My search has only led me to a Woodpecker T-square with a 32" leg and what looks like an 8" to 10" top.....which I would have liked to be around 16" or better.

It is well reviewed......
but I would prefer a larger framing type (L) square or a triangle.

I have never used the fold up 3'x4'x5' triangles, but maybe I could set it dead.....and just leave it assembled in the shop.

The story is....that my new cabinetmaker is used to a big shop (which we will be building in a due time) with panel saws...etc. I need to get her something to help with her transition to a small, Festool-oriented shop. Chit is slow like molasses in January......and I need to get her something that can allow for efficient and precise sheet good cutting.

Picking up my new JET cab saw this weekend. Maybe I can make a sled....but is it even possible to get 24" on one? I made one for my DW portable saw that is super tight and precise......but too small for that kind of thing.

Thanks in advance gentemen.....sorry for the novella.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Jet????


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

I use a standard framing square, set aside for this purpose only, calibrated every once in a while.

Edit: Tom, aka tjbnwi, takes tool accuracy very seriously and has posted on this subject.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Do you clean up the sheet edge prior to cutting the necessary pieces? 

If so start here for quick rail placement. 

http://youtu.be/GjFXJDpmO-I

Make a placement jig for the rail. This one will do both base and wall cabinet sides. All I do is reset the extensions. I have 6 or 7 made up for common sizes. 

I normally use my MFT for square cuts. As you can see this one has the fence bolted in place. In 24" it is 0.0000" out of square when checked with a 5 cut test. I also set the fence to support both sides of the cut. 

Anything within the capacity of your miter saw should be cross cut on it-assuming the miter saw is square. 5 cut test it. 

I have a squaring jig I made out of plywood and HDPE, it's at the other shop. 

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

A few other things I use to place the rail. 

Tri-square to gauge from an edge the the back side of the rail. 

Adjustable drywall squares to set from edge to back of rail also. 

Tom


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Jet????


What's wrong wit a JET?

I don't have a lot of time on cabinet saws.

I think it's a good deal.

3hp....A few years old, used by a trim carpenter when he built his restaurant, then quickly retired. Comes with dust collector.

$1,200.

Haven't sealed the deal......so give it to me straight.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks Tom.

I considered setting up an MFT as a dedicated crosscut table.
But then I lose one of my tables that I travel with quite a bit. 
Two questions...

beyond Pythagoras....what is your method of attaining perfect squareness (setting up the jigs......for the 5 cut)?

are you using the gecko clamp to prevent flex in the 110? 

It's the only Fes clamp I don't have, but I wondered if it was useful.....looks like that is a great way to ensure dead straight cuts.

Another if I may.
How often do you replace the cut tape on your rails?
Different blades/saws....travel dings....
I just did all mine for the first time last week.

I guess I need a piece of foam too. She has been complaining about all the kerfs in the main table.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Thanks Tom.
> 
> I considered setting up an MFT as a dedicated crosscut table.
> But then I lose one of my tables that I travel with quite a bit.
> ...


You don't loose any ability to travel with the MFT if you bolt the fence in place. Odds are you won't leave the fence behind either:whistling. You can still slide the rail off. If you need to purchase a second, you wouldn't be the first. I think both show up in my one photo.

The beauty of a 5 cut test is all you need is a caliper. Everything else is on what you're checking for square. 

The Gecko is on the rail because I was cutting pre-finished plywood. Some of the finishes are real slick, keeps the rail in place. I got 2 Gecko's on a store closing clearance a few years ago, got 2 for the cost of one. I use them to set tile and glass also. If you're flexing the rail, practice your stance and push. There should be no side thrust, just forward motion.

All 3 of my saw are rail matched. I can pick up any saw and use it on any rail without affecting the anti-splinter strip. I usually move them once, replace the next time. I need to replace the one on my MFT. I judge when to service by cut quality. I also keep 10-48 tooth blades, 4-28 tooth blades and 2-12 tooth blades for the 55's in rotation for sharpening. I only have 1 blade for the 75, I'll get more when I decide this one needs sharpening. Clean sharp blades are a must. A dirty dull blade can cause all kinds of problem, including out of square cuts.

Foam, TS and CT are a package always purchased together. Foam is a consumable, buy 2.

Tom


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> ... Clean sharp blades are a must. ...
> Tom


The track saw (or maybe it's the Festool blades) has gotten me in the habit of cleaning blades more than I ever did before.


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## goneelkn (Jan 9, 2010)

http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/s...2317&History=39324:112:1828:2275&ModelID=2317

They have different lengths.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> You don't loose any ability to travel with the MFT if you bolt the fence in place. Odds are you won't leave the fence behind either:whistling. You can still slide the rail off. If you need to purchase a second, you wouldn't be the first. I think both show up in my one photo.
> 
> The beauty of a 5 cut test is all you need is a caliper. Everything else is on what you're checking for square.
> 
> ...


I need a couple Gecko's.


I have never had any problem getting excellent results, but we have been so busy, that Jenn kind of got thrown right into the fire without enough "re-programming". Between the lax culture of her old shop and switching to a whole new way of doing a few key tasks.....she is feeling a bit frustrated.

She was cutting mostly pre-finished....maybe that had something to do with it.

Also, my main table is set up high for me at 6' 4" tall, and she is .....not 6' 4". That is another thing she was nagging me about. :whistling I have seen how it affects her ability to keep a smooth and steady cut going.

I will have to be better about cleaning my blades. I have 6 or so, and have never cleaned them. 

Much gratitude....


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Trim the legs on the table. Be glad she hasn't thrown the saw at you. 

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

BRG, there is a person on FOG selling 4 Gecko's. I have not looked to see if they have the rail adapters. I could use a couple more if you want to split the cost. I believe he is put your way.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/classifieds/four-geckos-for-sale/msg338097/?topicseen#msg338097

No rail adapter, still not a bad price.

Tom


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> BRG, there is a person on FOG selling 4 Gecko's. I have not looked to see if they have the rail adapters. I could use a couple more if you want to split the cost. I believe he is put your way.
> 
> http://festoolownersgroup.com/classifieds/four-geckos-for-sale/msg338097/?topicseen#msg338097
> 
> ...


I'm in...

Thanks.

Only issue....too far for me. 2 1/2-3 hour drive.
I'd still go for it at $170 shipped.

I suck at shipping stuff. (know thyself:whistling) 

I'll pay...have him ship to you....you ship to me (via cheapest, slowest method) w/ check minus my shipping?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> I'm in...
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


Want me to handle this? 

Tom


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> What's wrong wit a JET?
> 
> I don't have a lot of time on cabinet saws.
> 
> ...


I'm a bit late but I've had a Jet cabinet saw saw for quite a while now, even went to their factory in Auburn before I bought it. They had the tops of a Powermatic and Delta to compare. 

It's a very fine saw and I did precision work all day long with the stock Exacta fence. I cut 1/4" aluminum sheets on occasion, it's a beast.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

36-Inch-Framing-Layout-Square

Personally I have my grandfathers 24x36" leg aluminum cab square and use that. Squares like these ... really need to learn how to 'Re-square them' to keep 'em going tho.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

RangoWA said:


> I'm a bit late but I've had a Jet cabinet saw saw for quite a while now, even went to their factory in Auburn before I bought it. They had the tops of a Powermatic and Delta to compare.
> 
> It's a very fine saw and I did precision work all day long with the stock Exacta fence. I cut 1/4" aluminum sheets on occasion, it's a beast.


Thanks Rango.

(I'm outta "thanks" today....gotta go long form)

I just got her set up with the outfeed and cut my first sheet (just for fun), ...... very excited.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Texas Wax said:


> 36-Inch-Framing-Layout-Square
> 
> Personally I have my grandfathers 24x36" leg aluminum cab square and use that. Squares like these ... really need to learn how to 'Re-square them' to keep 'em going tho.


That is really what I've been looking for.

I've searched for weeks...to no avail. (either I suck at searches (most probable) or they are rare)

Thanks.

Re-square? Just like a framer? Nailset?


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I don't have a track saw but it's on the list. I'm still using a guide I made for the circular saw and cutting down sheet goods outside so I can get them down to a basement shop.
Though you won't be needing it anymore, the way I keep the fence exactly square is to make two small "T" squares from scrap. I clamp them to the stock at each end and snug the cutting fence up to them. 

Takes 3 minutes to make...either toss 'em when you're done or identify them and save them.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Robie said:


> I don't have a track saw but it's on the list. I'm still using a guide I made for the circular saw and cutting down sheet goods outside so I can get them down to a basement shop.
> Though you won't be needing it anymore, the way I keep the fence exactly square is to make two small "T" squares from scrap. I clamp them to the stock at each end and snug the cutting fence up to them.
> 
> Takes 3 minutes to make...either toss 'em when you're done or identify them and save them.


Thanks.:thumbsup:

(this out of "thanks" chit blows)
(can I buy some extra's with my otherwise useless Reward Points?)


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I thank people all day and all night...never "ran out" in 9 years here.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Robie said:


> I don't have a track saw but it's on the list. I'm still using a guide I made for the circular saw and cutting down sheet goods outside so I can get them down to a basement shop. Though you won't be needing it anymore, the way I keep the fence exactly square is to make two small "T" squares from scrap. I clamp them to the stock at each end and snug the cutting fence up to them. Takes 3 minutes to make...either toss 'em when you're done or identify them and save them.


This method gives you parallel, does nothing for square. You can use a tri-square or adjustable drywall squares for your gauges. 

I made this for cabinets sides. Depending on where the stops are set it will do base or uppers. 

Tom


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Yup...should have said parallel and not square.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> That is really what I've been looking for.
> 
> I've searched for weeks...to no avail. (either I suck at searches (most probable) or they are rare)
> 
> ...



welcome! 
I'd be lost (and pissed at the SOB who lost it/stole it) without it. So I keep track of sources to replace 


Re-square, nailset or careful hammer hits. LOL My aluminum cab square would look like a country road sign decorated with buck shot, if I used a nail set.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

BRG if you still want a set PM me your address. I'll get 2 out to you this week. 

Tom


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> You don't loose any ability to travel with the MFT if you bolt the fence in place. Odds are you won't leave the fence behind either:whistling. You can still slide the rail off. If you need to purchase a second, you wouldn't be the first. I think both show up in my one photo.
> 
> The beauty of a 5 cut test is all you need is a caliper. Everything else is on what you're checking for square.
> 
> ...


You have 10 of them? How often do they get sharpened and how long does it take? 

If Blue decides "No" on the geckos, let me know! :clap:


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

tjbnwi said:


> BRG if you still want a set PM me your address. I'll get 2 out to you this week. Tom


If he doesn't I will take them.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Beat Ya! :laughing:


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Beat Ya! :laughing:


Lol. Stupid one minute! Haha


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> You have 10 of them? How often do they get sharpened and how long does it take?
> 
> If Blue decides "No" on the geckos, let me know! :clap:


No, I just counted them-12.

I send 6 out at a time, they're gone about a week. 

The next blades to be sharpened will be the TS-55 blades, 3 Kapex (2 60's and 1-80) blades and 5 sets of planer blades. A few router bits also. 

I use the 48 tooth blade for just about all my ripping and cross cutting. 

Hopefully Blue responds to this thread so everyone knows if he wants the Gecko's. 

To use the Gecko's with a guide rail you will need this adapter. 

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/guide-rails/gecko/gecko-guide-rail-adapter-492616

They are great for setting tile and glass also.

Tom


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Back da phuck off my Gecko's bit(hes!:jester:

You just want them......I NEED them.:laughing:


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Back da phuck off my Gecko's bit(hes!:jester:
> 
> You just want them......I NEED them.:laughing:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I have one. In addition to sheet goods, tile and glass, I've lifted appliances that are stuck behind hardwood/tile. It says 110 pounds. I call BS. I've lifted the front edge of a Sub-Zero with it :clap:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

When I opened the box someone asked me what they were, I stuck it to the ceiling and did a pull up. Held all 200 pounds of me.

Yes, pull up--singular...............

Tom


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

I have several pair of Gecko's
I use them for tile 98% of the time the other 2 I may use them to cut melamine.
As far as a working cup, (one that is design to hold, lift, and place objects) they are the most well designed, ergonomic devices I have run across. I love em


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