# Dishwasher tailpiece inside diameter



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I just bought a replacement tailpiece for a dishwasher drain. I had never noticed that the diameter is literally 1/2 because of a deflector. 

Is this standard? I'd like to go back out to buy one with a different design because I see big problems here.











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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

In PVC that is most common, not found in brass. I have never had an issue with the PVC one like you have


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Before you go to the store, make all measurements you may possibly need [including inside cabinet space] and confirm the part dims in the store by opening packages.

There's nominal & actual dimensions and then there's those packages with no posted dimensions.

For pipe actual OD, if you don't have calipers wrap the pipe with a strip of paper, mark the circumference length and divide by PI. 
Measuring ID with this method can be a little trickier.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I went through the same dillema on my 1st home. The huge divider would damn up, & back up the sink. I just trimmed maybe 1/4 of it away, & ended the problem. I seem to remember pumpkin seeds being a major problem before the mod, & not after trimming the divider back a bit.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Railman said:


> I went through the same dillema on my 1st home. The huge divider would damn up, & back up the sink. I just trimmed maybe 1/4 of it away, & ended the problem. I seem to remember pumpkin seeds being a major problem before the mod, & not after trimming the divider back a bit.


Pumpkin seeds down the drain??? aaaaahhhhhhhh


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

rrk said:


> Pumpkin seeds down the drain??? aaaaahhhhhhhh


Glad someone else brought it up......

Tom


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

rrk said:


> Pumpkin seeds down the drain??? aaaaahhhhhhhh


 What'd you expect from my city girl?
She has since converted to over the hillside!

Originally, they went into the disposal side, but ended up clogging the narrow tailpiece passage somehow.

After mod, it never happened again.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Yes, the PVC ones have a tendency to clog. This is why I try to always use the brass ones, if I can't talk the HO out of a disposal and dishwasher, which are 2 of the most asinine inventions for the kitchen ever. 


GettingBy, you have a singular talent for producing completely unhelpful, and thoroughly worthless posts, yet overflowing with psuedo-technical-sounding verbiage.




Delta


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Yes, the PVC ones have a tendency to clog. This is why I try to always use the brass ones,
> 
> singular talent


So brass is slipperier than PVC? 

". . .singular talent. . .? I'm just getting started. :thumbsup:


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Yes, the PVC ones have a tendency to clog. This is why I try to always use the brass ones, if I can't talk the HO out of a disposal and dishwasher, which are 2 of the most asinine inventions for the kitchen ever.
> 
> 
> GettingBy, you have a singular talent for producing completely unhelpful, and thoroughly worthless posts, yet overflowing with psuedo-technical-sounding verbiage.
> ...


disposals are the worst by far


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

GettingBy said:


> So brass is slipperier than PVC?
> 
> ". . .singular talent. . .? I'm just getting started. :thumbsup:


If you'd ever done any plumbing, you'd know that the PVC tailpieces come with a deflector, but the brass ones don't.


Delta


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

GettingBy said:


> So brass is slipperier than PVC?
> 
> 
> 
> ". . .singular talent. . .? I'm just getting started. :thumbsup:



No, the brass tailpiece doesn't have a beveled diverter inside the pipe like PVC ones do. Look at my original post pic or the inside


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> If you'd ever done any plumbing, you'd know that the PVC tailpieces come with a deflector, but the brass ones don't.


You can get plastic DW branch tailpieces without the baffle.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> You can get plastic DW branch tailpieces without the baffle.


Perhaps so.

But in my area, the PVC ones UNIVERSALLY come with a deflector, and the brass ones UNIVERSALLY don't.

I have no idea what happens in Chicago. Maybe talking about plumbing is a code violation there.



Delta


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

rrk said:


> disposals are the worst by far


The problem isn't the disposal, it's the wife... er, I mean the un-named person, who insists on shoving bananas, artichokes, broccoli, pots of rice, feathers (!) and whole flower bouquets down the thing, despite having been told over and over and over and over again, that it is not some sort of convenient composting machine.

I feel better now.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> The problem isn't the disposal, it's the wife... er, I mean the un-named person, who insists on shoving bananas, artichokes, broccoli, pots of rice, feathers (!) and whole flower bouquets down the thing, despite having been told over and over and over and over again, that it is not some sort of convenient composting machine.
> 
> I feel better now.


You left out spaghetti


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

CarpenterSFO said:


> The problem isn't the disposal, it's the wife... er, I mean the un-named person, who insists on shoving bananas, artichokes, broccoli, pots of rice, feathers (!) and whole flower bouquets down the thing, despite having been told over and over and over and over again, that it is not some sort of convenient composting machine.
> 
> I feel better now.


and potato peels.....dam them things....

Why do operators of these things instantly shut the water off as soon as they think the grinding is done?.....

Let it run a tad bit and have a chance of the chit going down the drain...


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> If you'd ever done any plumbing, . . .tailpieces. . .


That detail must have slipped by me. :blink: Maybe I haven't had enough pieces of tail, ya' think? :laughing:


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

griz said:


> and potato peels.....dam them things....
> 
> Why do operators of these things instantly shut the water off as soon as they think the grinding is done?.....
> 
> Let it run a tad bit and have a chance of the chit going down the drain...


Lady told me once that she did not want to waste water, the plumbers bill to clear the blockage fixed that right away. Pineapple skin.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Perhaps so.
> 
> But in my area, the PVC ones UNIVERSALLY come with a deflector, and the brass ones UNIVERSALLY don't.
> 
> I have no idea what happens in Chicago. Maybe talking about plumbing is a code violation there.


The baffle is a code violation here, you can't us a fitting that reduces the size of a waste line.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I installed it. I'm at my parents house in NY for Xmas and doing my annual fix-all-the-broken-stuff-in-the-house.

I can keep an eye on it and I'll find out how it performs. 

A few years ago, I patched a lead closet bend with wire mesh and bondo (haha). Still going strong with no leaks! I used a torch to try to heat and patch with more lead and, let's say, gave a little too much heat!

Next is the chimney.... And bathroom and dryer vent


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

CarpenterSFO said:


> The problem isn't the disposal, it's the wife... er, I mean the un-named person, who insists on shoving bananas, artichokes, broccoli, pots of rice, feathers (!) and whole flower bouquets down the thing, despite having been told over and over and over and over again, that it is not some sort of convenient composting machine.
> 
> I feel better now.


I thought they were the most amazing invention when I was younger, my mother didn't want to use it because she thought it would clog up the septic tank.

One day she was gone and I loaded everything inside as tight as I could and fired it up, I cleaned every plate I could find, filled that SOB with olive pits and chicken bones. Next thing you know it's plumb dead, packed full of organic waste.

I tried to free it up by running more water and just made a disgusting mess, I ended up scooping the rank water from the sink and left the mess for my parents to deal with. Boy were they angry.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> *GettingBy*, you have a singular talent for producing completely unhelpful, and thoroughly worthless posts, yet overflowing with psuedo-technical-sounding verbiage.
> 
> Delta


^---This belongs to CT now. Thank you for your donation.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> ^---This belongs to CT now. Thank you for your donation.


You're welcome.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> The baffle is a code violation here, you can't us a fitting that reduces the size of a waste line.



I guess an air gap is considered ahead of the waste line. It cuts the drain from the dishwasher down to about 3/8" (or less - I haven't actually measured one) and dumps into about a 5/8" tube which is connected to a flexible (sorta) hose (like a automotive heater hose) that is damn near impossible to keep the kinks out even when there isn't a bunch of crap stuffed under the sink. I always replace the hose supplied with the air gap with a combination of 3/4" copper 45s, pieces of the hose and hose clamps so that my homeowner won't create a kink in the hose.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I've never hooked one up that uses that counter mounted air gap. I don't exactly understand it. What are the conditions that require that setup?


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

The airgap is used to keep waste water from backing up into the dishwasher, we use them all the time here. Seems that other locations are allowed just putting the DW drain hose in a high loop inside the cabinet, basically tieing the drain hose up higher than the sink inside the cabinet before connecting to the drain or disposal.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

dsconstructs said:


> The airgap is used to keep waste water from backing up into the dishwasher, we use them all the time here. Seems that other locations are allowed just putting the DW drain hose in a high loop inside the cabinet, basically tieing the drain hose up higher than the sink inside the cabinet before connecting to the drain or disposal.


Exactly. The dishwasher _pumps_ water out a discharge hose and goes through a restriction and then dumps across an air gap into a larger hose/tube. At that point, it is gravity feed and any restriction in the hose from the air gap to the disposal (or tailpiece) can result in dishwasher discharge water spewing out the air gap (a fairly common complaint for the device). They are required by code in most of the areas around me. I suspect it is because of issues associated with dishwasher discharge hose (DDH) routing. In some situations, it is almost impossible to loop the DDH high enough so that sink water cannot be siphoned back into the dishwasher.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

txgencon said:


> I guess an air gap is considered ahead of the waste line. It cuts the drain from the dishwasher down to about 3/8" (or less - I haven't actually measured one) and dumps into about a 5/8" tube which is connected to a flexible (sorta) hose (like a automotive heater hose) that is damn near impossible to keep the kinks out even when there isn't a bunch of crap stuffed under the sink. I always replace the hose supplied with the air gap with a combination of 3/4" copper 45s, pieces of the hose and hose clamps so that my homeowner won't create a kink in the hose.


The code violation comes from reducing the drain for the basket strainer that the tailpiece is connected to, it has nothing to do with restricting the dishwasher drain.

For the most part I always rough three vented waste openings into every kitchen cabinet, one for the sink, one for the disposer, and one for the dishwasher.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> The code violation comes from reducing the drain for the basket strainer that the tailpiece is connected to, it has nothing to do with restricting the dishwasher drain.
> 
> For the most part I always rough three vented waste openings into every kitchen cabinet, one for the sink, one for the disposer, and one for the dishwasher.


With a common vent for all three?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

txgencon said:


> With a common vent for all three?


Each opening has it's own vent.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> Each opening has it's own vent.


All of the way through the roof?
Islands the same?

Carpenters must hate you. That's a lot of pipes in a small space.


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

rrk said:


> All of the way through the roof?
> 
> Islands the same?
> 
> ...



I'd imagine they must tie to a common in the attic. There would be no sense in 3 separate roof penetrations


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

rrk said:


> All of the way through the roof?
> Islands the same?
> 
> Carpenters must hate you. That's a lot of pipes in a small space.


They tie together 6" above the highest spill line.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> They tie together 6" above the highest spill line.


That would be hard to do in a peninsula or island. 

I'd be willing to do just about any configuration that would result in less clutter under the kitchen sink. I like the separate waste opening idea if doing so allows configuring the sink and disposal waste lines to go straight back (through a trap, of course). If I have to use an air gap, I don't see any advantage for a third waste opening. Running the dishwasher discharge through the disposal seems like a good thing. Am I missing something?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

txgencon said:


> Running the dishwasher discharge through the disposal seems like a good thing. Am I missing something?


It's a code violation here.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> It's a code violation here.


OK. But if it wasn't, what would YOU do? (Just want your opinion)


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## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> It's a code violation here.



I don't think I've ever seen it done to code then (Chicago, right?). I wasn't doing plumbing work but I saw a good handful of disposal/dishwasher setups over the years there. 

Has it been in the code for a long time?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

txgencon said:


> OK. But if it wasn't, what would YOU do? (Just want your opinion)



I don't like the idea of draining one fixture into another fixture, I'd still give it it's own waste opening.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

dielectricunion said:


> I don't think I've ever seen it done to code then (Chicago, right?). I wasn't doing plumbing work but I saw a good handful of disposal/dishwasher setups over the years there.
> 
> Has it been in the code for a long time?


State of Illinois code, not just Chicago, been that way since I joined the trade 25 years ago.


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## Smatt (Feb 22, 2011)

In Virginia it is also a code violation to reduce the size of the drain, though they still sell them and it is acceptable. An inspector can't see inside the pipe. In my opinion they should be illegal as should be piercing valves and braided water heater lines. Just to name a few.


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