# Cabinet building pricing question



## zukinut (Dec 24, 2017)

No, dad isn't mad, I can pick his brain all I want, he will tell me if I'm high or low and tell me if it's a bad job and to walk. But that's all. He doesnt want bad blood due to money I guess.He had to retire early due to health and he's young. His body is just shot out. Before kids he raced street bikes, he's paying for it now. 


Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post, I see a bunch of things I'm already doing and a some things I should be doing. i was mainly just seeing if y'all did it by box or t&m but I learned even a more than that. 

Thank you very much. 
Will


----------



## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

zukinut said:


> No, dad isn't mad, *I can pick his brain all I want, he will tell me if I'm high or low and tell me if it's a bad job and to walk. But that's all. He doesnt want bad blood due to money I guess.
> 
> *
> /QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Trial & error are the best teacher, but it takes time to learn.

I read a pricing article on woodweb that made a lot of sense to me. I took part of it, & tweeked it to my own style. It takes x amount of time to build a box, no matter what size that box for the most part. Most cabinets are nothing more than a box. So, each box gets a price. I use $125 as my box #. Next, I figure sq ft of finished faces & ends & I assign an amount to that sq ft depending on finish. Painted gets a 25% markup over stain & finish because there's more prep time to doing paint work. Like Leo, I give a markup per drawer & per pullout, including blum undermount slides. I'm a little cheaper than Leo, but not by a lot. Most of my clients don't care about dovetailed boxes, but when they do, I'm closer on cost to Leo. Ive by no means, completely figured out our pricing, but I've got a lot better handle on it than I did a few years ago.


----------



## zukinut (Dec 24, 2017)

Kirk, when I price something I'll ask him his opinion. He will say I'm high or I'm low and need to add. Or he will say I'd be better off not taking the job. He just won't say why.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

zukinut said:


> Was just wondering how most price their jobs. I've always done it by time and material. When dad retired last year, he gave me his tools, and he helps when I get in a bind and don't know how to do something, but he absolutely refuses to talk money. As most folks do.
> 
> I've read about folks pricing per box, I don't do any standard stuff so I don't think that would work for me.
> 
> ...


Time and material are pretty generic and we'd need to know what the subsets of time equate to... if by "time" that's just to say that you want to make "$X" amount of dollars for your time, it is inadequate to say the least...

How are you accounting for overhead on top of what you'd like to personally make ? (i.e. - fixed and variable operating expenses - the list is pretty long) and Profit?

*L*abor
*O*verhead
*M*aterial 
*P*rofit​
The GROSS income you personally want to make each year can be accounted for under Labor or Overhead, with each being a component of what you need to charge in your hourly rate.

Material is easy to calculate, but don't forget the intangibles like material handling, delivery, refuse removal/disposal, etc. all of which need to be accounted for, so simply charging a customer the exact cost for the material without a mark-up (not profit) will ultimately end up costing YOU money...

Profit is what is calculated ON TOP OF the Labor, Overhead and Material and is what is used to pay your company (don't confuse Profit with what you pay yourself, it is not - your pay and any employee will be covered under Labor and/or Overhead)... it is used to fund Capital Reserves, Emergency fund (at least 3-6 months), equipment purchases, bonuses, etc. - what this percentage is will be different from company to company. 

Keep in mind that if you do not KNOW these costs intimately, and you do not currently have Capital Reserves or Emergency Fund in place, there is only ONE place for any miscalculations/over-runs/shortfalls to come from if you can't get it from the customer... YOUR pocket... because everyone else expects to be paid...


----------



## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

Just start doing em...and learn the hard way. There ain't no easy way. After you work for free enough you'll get a handle on it. Plus the more jobs you do the better ya get at punching numbers and cutting down on labor time. Keep a written track of of all that stuff too, hours, materials, mileage, trips for materials, lunch money, etc etc. 

I don't do real big jobs (between $6-15k) but in the beginning, after I was done I was always thinking I should have charged $2-3k more on the jobs I did. So now I just tack that much more on the job. 

YMMV.


----------



## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> Hey now. You said 60 hours should work...
> 
> Or were you talking about 60 of your hours vs mine? :laughing:


Stealing that one


----------



## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

zukinut said:


> It's the new customers that I'm unsure with. I don't wanna overprice, and I don't wanna underprice and make the trade look bad.
> 
> - I would rather be the first guy.
> 
> ...







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

I gave up listening to my old man along time ago. Not that your in the same situation as I was. He never thought he was worth much and so charged accordingly. He also never went after the high net worth clients.

Might want to ask yourself why he didnt want hose jobs.


----------



## zukinut (Dec 24, 2017)

I meant I don't wanna be the guy that charges too little. I've spent a lot of time learning, researching, practicing, honing my skills and learning new ones. I charge accordingly, I think. 

The area I'm in is hard to work in, too many "experts" that don't really know what they're doing but talk a good game. I refuse work in million dollar homes because the owners want the cheapest price, not the best work. The "experts" that will cut corners and work for cheap come highly recommended because they worked in those high dollar homes. I have to add that into conversation when selling my work. 

As my dad gets older he sees it that he is doing people a favor not as a profession. I took over the business completely third quarter of 16. Dad almost died due to a blood clot in his lung and had no choice but to call it quits. We used to do big additions and such, j never liked doing that stuff so I've started doing more of the things I like to do and specializing. 

I've read this forum for over a year but just joined this week. 

I've learned lots and I greatly appreciate all the responses. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

zukinut said:


> I meant I don't wanna be the guy that charges too little. I've spent a lot of time learning, researching, practicing, honing my skills and learning new ones. I charge accordingly, I think.
> 
> The area I'm in is hard to work in, too many "experts" that don't really know what they're doing but talk a good game. I refuse work in million dollar homes because the owners want the cheapest price, not the best work. The "experts" that will cut corners and work for cheap come highly recommended because they worked in those high dollar homes. I have to add that into conversation when selling my work.
> 
> ...


I've done just about everything over the last 40+ years hammering around. As of late I've been fortunate to get mostly bathroom and kitchen remodels and I'm really enjoying it. I think a guy just starting out can only read and discuss so much on the topic which revolves around how to enjoy a trade and still make a decent profit. But it all comes down to just jumping in and adjusting as ya go. 

A mentor of mine always said "Bid often and bid high." There's a lot of truth to that. And if you lower your fees out of sheer desperation you'll be miserable and broke. 

I'm a one man show and small-time compared to a lot of the big guys here. But the skies the limit. Good luck !


----------



## zukinut (Dec 24, 2017)

kirkdc said:


> I've done just about everything over the last 40+ years hammering around. As of late I've been fortunate to get mostly bathroom and kitchen remodels and I'm really enjoying it. I think a guy just starting out can only read and discuss so much on the topic which revolves around how to enjoy a trade and still make a decent profit. But it all comes down to just jumping in and adjusting as ya go.
> 
> I'm a one man show and small-time compared to a lot of the big guys here. But the skies the limit. Good luck !




I remember when dad had 30 guys working for him. It was a headache. Now it's just me. Finding help is too much hassle anymore. I'll probably never make lots of money without a crew but sometimes you're sanity is worth more than dollar bills 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

