# I feel guilty! I charge my customers for...



## NewL (Dec 3, 2005)

I feel guilty! I charge my customers for time I spend on other peoples projects.  I work for customer A but bill the time to customer B so customer A can get my services for free. I do this alot too. I haven't been caught yet or even asked about it. Is this a bad thing or do you do it too?

Chuck


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Are you serious? 

I do this all the time, except I charge customer B time and a half so I get my lunch for free.


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## NewL (Dec 3, 2005)

*I do it...*

I am serious! Yes I do it. Do you?


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

This has got to be a joke or loaded question.
Why don't you charge them both? 
Why give anybody anything for free?
If customer B finds out, well, you know the rest.
Read this.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Umm....no way. I charge customer A for his time, and customer B for the time on their work. No BS.....I don't cheat one customer to give a freebie to another.


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## NewL (Dec 3, 2005)

*OK you got me...*

It's a loaded question... and according to This Poll 85% of you are doing it too. I'm talking about free estimates. If you give FREE estimates you are charging your "Paying Customers" (customer B) for the gas you used and the time you spent doing free estimates. I am going to start charging for estimates and telling on all of you that charge your customers for other people's estimates! :devil: 

I constantly hear from fellow contractors that they are so busy that they are turning away work, and from customers that they can't find a contractor to do the work or that I was the only contractor that called them back! If we're this busy there is no reason to do anything for FREE or charge paying customers for time wasted on dead-beats and penny pinchers. If we all charged for estimates we would only be doing estimates for real-potential customers and could give those paying customers a better price because our overhead has been lowered!

I'm through ripping-off paying customers. If a customer wants an in-home consultation and estimate they'll have to come up with $50. If they can't afford $50 they sure can't afford a $25,000 kitchen remodel!


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

AAPaint said:


> Umm....no way. I charge customer A for his time, and customer B for the time on their work. No BS.....I don't cheat one customer to give a freebie to another.



I agree


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## NewL (Dec 3, 2005)

NewL said:


> It's a loaded question... and according to This Poll 85% of you are doing it too. I'm talking about free estimates. If you give FREE estimates you are charging your "Paying Customers" (customer B) for the gas you used and the time you spent doing free estimates. I am going to start charging for estimates and telling on all of you that charge your customers for other people's estimates! :devil:
> 
> I constantly hear from fellow contractors that they are so busy that they are turning away work, and from customers that they can't find a contractor to do the work or that I was the only contractor that called them back! If we're this busy there is no reason to do anything for FREE or charge paying customers for time wasted on dead-beats and penny pinchers. If we all charged for estimates we would only be doing estimates for real-potential customers and could give those paying customers a better price because our overhead has been lowered!
> 
> I'm through ripping-off paying customers. If a customer wants an in-home consultation and estimate they'll have to come up with $50. If they can't afford $50 they sure can't afford a $25,000 kitchen remodel!


Here's the reasons I'll give...

•	It’s only fair to you, the customer. If you hire a contractor that gives free estimates a significant part of your bill pays for the free estimates he did for others (someone has to pay for the gas etc.). We only charge for the work we’ve done for you, not for others.
•	Getting a small refundable fee for an in-home/site consultation allows us to be cheaper than other contractors because our estimating costs are greatly reduced.
•	Contractors that do free estimates must have free time on their hands… find a contractor that’s not busy and you’ve found a contractor that’s not licensed or not in demand. Ask yourself why no one is hiring him.
•	We’ve had some people get drawings, ideas and information from us and then hire an unlicensed handyman to do the work illegally which puts the customer at great risk, financially and perhaps personally.
•	People that are serious about doing a several thousand dollar construction project don’t mind spending a few dollars to get the right contractor for the job.
•	If you hire us for the job we’ll refund the estimate fee you paid us as well as estimate fees you’ve paid to other contractors up to $150 total.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

I like your points.... and I would like to do that same thing and put those points on my website.... But not yet, still to young of a company in a couple of years I think I will start charging.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Good points, but I must beg to differ on some. There are contractors like me who are busy, but not exponentially so. I'm licensed, insured, and have a great reputation, but I don't always drum up enough leads to be busy up to my ears. I'm a one man band with part time help as needed and that's it. Yes, I want to be bigger, but I don't think charging for something every other painter does for free is going to get me there.


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

AAPaint said:


> Good points, but I must beg to differ on some. There are contractors like me who are busy, but not exponentially so. I'm licensed, insured, and have a great reputation, but I don't always drum up enough leads to be busy up to my ears. I'm a one man band with part time help as needed and that's it. Yes, I want to be bigger, but I don't think charging for something every other painter does for free is going to get me there.


Check out Pattys thread in the general discussion section (Mike Finely inspired this thread). Give me your thoughts everybody.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I quit the free est. many years ago. All that it drew to me were tire-kickers and I spent way too many hrs. putting together proposals for customers looking for the lowest bidder or unhappy with an existing contactor. In a few, I wound up subpoenea'd and wasted more time in court. If they can't afford an est.


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

Teetorbilt said:


> I quit the free est. many years ago. All that it drew to me were tire-kickers and I spent way too many hrs. putting together proposals for customers looking for the lowest bidder or unhappy with an existing contactor. In a few, I wound up subpoenea'd and wasted more time in court. If they can't afford an est.


So do you submit a spec'd proposal after collecting a fee. Or, when the customer calls, do you say"It will be $x to come ballpark a price"? and they say yes ( a good sign b/c they are serious) or no (a good sign b/c you did not just waste a bunch of time)? What is your experience?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Every job I have done has been with a free estimate. 

Would I have gotten more jobs signed if I charged for estimates? I can't imagine how I would have. 

Would I have made a few bucks off of people who never followed through with the job? Yes for certain. 

Would there have been people who became my customers passed on me because of the estimate charge. Yes, also for certain.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

I also charge customers for my vacation time
You do too
That's part of the deal, that's one of the reasons I get more "per hour" than some people that only draw a paycheck think is fair
My pay has to cover stuff like that
I know they don't get it
"Why should I pay for your vacation?"
Well, if you work at a beenie baby factory, andf I buy a beenie baby, I'm paying for (part of) your vacation
I'm also paying for advertising to people other than me
Is that "ripping off" customers?

If someone wants to charge for estimates more power to them, that's great
I think it's a great way of weeding out tire-kickers and putting a clear "worth" on your time
If you want to market your desicion by claiming that no-one pays for someone else's free estimates than go for it
But I feel that particular aspect is a marketing decision rather than an economical, or altruistic one, out of concern for your customer's finances

I don't think you can say giving free estimates is ripping off your (paying) customers

Your customers that pay you also pay for your vacation time, your sick time, your free weekend time, your coffee breaks...it may not be itemized on a bill, but it's there


* Just to be clear, I don't mean I charge customer A $5400 for a trip to Disney lol


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

If your estimating and sales time is accounted for,
it is be part of your overhead expences and should be
recovered by your hourly company rate.
Similar to the credit card thing:
you can't charge people an extra 2% for using them
but you recover the cost through your hourly rate.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

NewL said:


> It's a loaded question... and according to This Poll 85% of you are doing it too. I'm talking about free estimates...............yada yada


Man, I feel like a victim of a drive by.:laughing: 
I thought all this being discussed was called 'overhead'.


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## NewL (Dec 3, 2005)

*Yeah, I know...*

It's just overhead. My problem is the (potential) customers that I've been getting have been using me for ideas or to discover what needs to be done for a project (remodel) then hiring my subs directly and or doing it themselves. Others just have no idea what a project might cost and when they find out that their kitchen remodel will be more than their budget it's just a wasted trip. By charging even as little as $20 bucks I bet I'll cut the tire-kickers and penny pinchers way down. * I did over 30 estimates last month and only landed two jobs.* That's a lot of wasted time! My rates are below what the RS Means books list so I don't think I'm charging too much. And the customers I've done work for are very happy with the results. 

*To me, charging for a site visit is a tool to help find the serious customers.*

Chuck


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Chuck - 30 estimates with 2 landed jobs says you have a lot more problems than will be solved with charging somebody 20 bucks. 6% closing ratio? Something major is wrong.

For one thing how do your these people you are doing estimates for know who your subs are to hire them?

Secondly why are your subs not sticking by you and telling these people to call you back instead of them? I wouldn't be giving these subs any future business if it was me.


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## NewL (Dec 3, 2005)

*I'm pretty sure it's a conspiracy!*

I can't explain it any other way!


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