# Non-Union Construction Workers Beaten



## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

unions are no longer needed. we have labour laws.

it's an excuse for lazy people to work half a day and get paid for a full day.
do half-assed work and not get fired because they're union.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

> Times are tough. What they should be cautious about is next time it may "not" be so out in the open.
> Its to bad it had to result in violence.


WTF!!!!

Are you kidding me? Murders have "reasons" Rapists have "reasons" 

What happened to the moral compass of the "working man" 

i tell you what i am real glad i am in a state where i can carry. Someone comes at me with a bat and i will have a "reason" to make sure they dont work again. 

This is crazy. We are not ruled by the mob in this country. 

A. Why did it take the cops so freaking long to get there?
B. What the heck is up with this black sedan being sent out by the Union? 
C. Wheres the outcry from the media against the Union for this?

If this would of happened at a tea party they would have been calling for the arresting of everyone in the protest group. Oh we cant say "whether or not the men in the sedan were affiliated with the union"

Bull Fing S

All those construction workers picketing there couldnt stop these men? BS they knew they were from the union and they werent going to stop them. 

This kind of BS makes it real hard to believe that the union is just normal working guys looking out for each other. Its nigh on to an organized crime mob.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I've experienced this myself - excluding the bat - many times with the philly brass...Now that things are slow, I expect to hear more of this. 

Get your injunction, go to work and watch your back - sucks, but it is what it is...unions are the ones on the hit list these day's if you haven't noticed, for good reason...They've dug there own grave through political extortion which they've discovered unsustainable for the long term. If they can wipe out a national convention market through high price labor and man hour requirements for vendors, think how the local business community must veiw them.

Still sittin' here thinking what this "card" carrying member would'a did in this situation:gun_bandana:...Takes big coconuts to attack somebody with a bat :furious:


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## Just1 (Dec 5, 2008)

Just because we have labor laws does not mean unions shouldnt be around. Everyone should have a right to join a union but no one should be forced to. Large non-union GC's dont follow labor laws because their workers are mostly illegal immigrants who are happy just to have a job. No one is concerned about their safety and they are not treated fairly and they dont complain about violations on the job site.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Just1 said:


> Just because we have labor laws does not mean unions shouldnt be around. Everyone should have a right to join a union but no one should be forced to. Large non-union GC's dont follow labor laws because their workers are mostly illegal immigrants who are happy just to have a job. No one is concerned about their safety and they are not treated fairly and they dont complain about violations on the job site.


Here we go again........ more union propaganda.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Just1 said:


> Just because we have labor laws does not mean unions shouldnt be around. Everyone should have a right to join a union but no one should be forced to. Large non-union GC's dont follow labor laws because their workers are mostly illegal immigrants who are happy just to have a job. No one is concerned about their safety and they are not treated fairly and they dont complain about violations on the job site.


 Hey you realize everything you wrote has nothing to do with union vs nonunion right. 

The GC in your example is breaking the laws I mentioned in my post.

...some people... :whistling


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Winchester said:


> Hey you realize everything you wrote has nothing to do with union vs nonunion right.
> 
> The GC in your example is breaking the laws I mentioned in my post.
> 
> ...some people... :whistling


Who is enforcing these laws???? The government:no:. 

Some people:laughing:


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Willie T said:


> Some interesting reading *HERE* about Philly's ties to unions.



This article is a good read. The author shows his side in the article, but alot of the history is there. But mostly the history from one side.



Willie T said:


> Guys, this was a small part of the membership that did the ball bat routine. As is the case everywhere, such a minority does not necessarily speak, nor act, for the organization as a whole.
> 
> Any chance we can derail yet another union vs non union debate that we all know will never really go anywhere?


You are correct. Like I said before unions are not with out fault. I do not know the specifics of this case but it was more than likely a few pissed off guys, not a "sanctioned" act. I will hear more about this soon and will post if any one really wants to know.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

NJ Brickie said:


> Who is enforcing these laws???? The government:no:.
> 
> Some people:laughing:


They should be. As that is who is supposed to enforce laws. Not citizens.

Or maybe we should get some vigilante union guys to enforce them with bats?


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Winchester said:


> unions are no longer needed. we have labour laws.
> 
> it's an excuse for lazy people to work half a day and get paid for a full day.
> do half-assed work and not get fired because they're union.


 
WHAT A JOKE HERE!! THIS IS THE ATTITUDE THAT GOT US IN THIS WHOLE SITUATION!!!
Think about it-who wrote the labor Laws. Did Labor have the upper say in them? I don't think so.... Who is protected in this particular situation? The law is protecting the non-union people. They will call in the police or National guard against any union people when they try to picket or strike, so in this situation it did get ugly because of this. 
Our economy & job situation is like it is because the working people cannot fight back !!!! They the big companies got their wishes & people went along with it,

I take this as a personel shot ,as I worked union all my life & we worked very hard with full days & a lot of forced double shifts etc. As for getting fired-yes they did that too. Just miss a few days work even if you have the flu & see waht happens. Your statement is a very repeated one without any facts. The companies especially like Wal-mart love it-word power against unions !! Less we have to pay & deal with workers with no benefits !!!

Union people doing half ass work-You got it all wrong! Non-union were also working along side of us-and believe me -THEY Were the ones doing half assed WORK & we were the ones that had to go fix it. 

Union or Non Union you would be mad if some illegal non-union people came into your area & directly took your work-with the law on their side............. 

P.S. I am semi-retired & set up my business because I don't get enough pension from working 38yrs.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

I lose jobs all the time to low ballers so now I can go out beat them with a bat?:blink: sweet......


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

mrmike said:


> Your statement is a very repeated one without any facts.


I am not saying because other people may say it. I'm saying it because it's what I see all the time. My wife and her father are both in a union. It's such political BS. Work ethic and ability have nothing to do with anything. It's all political BS.

Hell just recently I worked on site with a union company that went bankrupt. I wonder why, they showed up at like 10 am took a 1 hour coffee break, worked for an hour, went off for lunch, came back and worked two hours and then packed up and charged for a full day.

If it were non-union they could've laid off some people and brought on some that actually _worked_, or got their current guys in-line and the company could have stood afloat...


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Winchester said:


> I am not saying because other people may say it. I'm saying it because it's what I see all the time. My wife and her father are both in a union. It's such political BS. Work ethic and ability have nothing to do with anything. It's all political BS.
> 
> Hell just recently I worked on site with a union company that went bankrupt. I wonder why, they showed up at like 10 am took a 1 hour coffee break, worked for an hour, went off for lunch, came back and worked two hours and then packed up and charged for a full day.


That is how I do it but, I am not union...:laughing:

oh yeah, I dont drink coffee.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> That is how I do it but, I am not union...:laughing:
> 
> oh yeah, I dont drink coffee.


two overpriced guys on site being billed out for a full days work on a T&M contract is different than someone who gave a fixed price with their work schedule in mind :laughing:

it's funny because the workers were bitching about how they worked for so long at the company and now they're shutting down and they're not getting anything special for being there so long :laughing: talk about a sense of entitlement... typical union worker. :whistling


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## Just1 (Dec 5, 2008)

My post was not meant to be about union vs non union. It was meant to be about the rights and choices we have in this country to join a union. If you want to talk about shoddy work do an online search for "shoddy condo construction in NYC". These projects were all built with non union labor during the condo boom a few years ago.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Just1 said:


> My post was not meant to be about union vs non union. It was meant to be about the rights and choices we have in this country to join a union. If you want to talk about shoddy work do an online search for "shoddy condo construction in NYC". These projects were all built with non union labor during the condo boom a few years ago.


Therefore, all non-union work is shoddy. Therefore, all union work is perfect.:whistling

So, what flavor was the KoolAid?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

480sparky said:


> So, what flavor was the KoolAid?



Not orange. The union guys wouldn't touch _that _stuff :no:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Not orange. The union guys wouldn't touch _that _stuff :no:



How about cheese-flavored? You know us rats just love cheese!:laughing:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

Unions become bullies in so many cases, it doesn't matter what trade it is. My friend who worked for a private excavation company for many years, told me that on one job over in PA that they got the bid for, but a union excavator didn't get, in the middle of the night someone came in and dumped something in their diesel tanks of bulldozers and other equipment, ruining hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment. All this does is make insurance go up even higher. Unions need to suck it up and if non union get a job, so be it. what if us guys in the private sector went and threatened all the contractors that get jobs we don't get? would that be right?

our gov is in bed with the unions. they aren't going away any time soon, unfortunately. 

I ran into a union carpenter a few weeks ago at a party, he thought it was so great being in the union and talked about how he worked non union for 12 years and it's so much better. I told him, that's why you are making 27 an hour and Im making 70. His best years of income with the union are some of my worst years of income being on my own. 

union pension plans are the reason many companies are going under. just ask the auto makers. all the people who got early retirements continue to get a pension and full benefits paid for until they die. the numbers just don't add up and it's gotten us to where we are today in the world, flat out broke. government overspending and union BS, that's who you can thank!

next time i lose a bid to another contractor, i guess i just paint my truck black and go after him with a bat. what a joke. the media should be all over this case. too bad they are all union too.


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## BillD (Jun 9, 2008)

mrmike said:


> Union or Non Union you would be mad if some illegal non-union people came into your area & directly took your work-with the law on their side.............


Illegal aliens come into this area all the time and take work from legit contractors. I never saw any news stories about a group of (non-union) contractors beating illegal alien drywallers or roofers with bats though. 

If the non-union company bid the job and won the bid then it was never your work in the first place. The vast majority of union construction workers I have dealt with over the past 30 years thought they were owed something by the contractor they worked for. 

I can't tell you how many times I was asked why I worked so hard because I was going to put myself out of work. That is one hell of an attitude to have. When I was employed by someone I always worked to get the job done as fast as possible and make my boss as much $$$ as possible.

I do not dislike union guys, I dislike the attitude that so often comes with the union guys.

Bill


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

The entire American middle class owes its existence to the labor movement. The eight-hour day and the weekend you enjoy were paid for with the lives and blood of working people. 

Employers warned the elimination of child labor would put them out of business.

Oh, but employers have changed. We don't need unions anymore. Right.

Of course their are crooks and thugs in unions, just as there are in corporations and politics. But those quick to condemn organized labor have paid little attention in History class.

Kowboy


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## LadyGC (Jul 8, 2010)

Actually, Kowboy, the 8 hour day was first implemented by Henry Ford in 1908. He didn't become union (after fighting them off with strong-armed tactics) until the 1930's.

My first post and it's anti-union.... oh well.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

LadyGC said:


> Actually, Kowboy, the 8 hour day was first implemented by Henry Ford in 1908. He didn't become union (after fighting them off with strong-armed tactics) until the 1930's.
> 
> My first post and it's anti-union.... oh well.



:no: It is ashame your first post was BS.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Whats this 8 hour thing you speak of? Is that how long you work till you get lunch?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

john5mt said:


> Whats this 8 hour thing you speak of? Is that how long you work till you get lunch?



What is this 'lunch' thing you speak of? :blink:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

yeah. more like 12 hour or more work days for the real world contractors. haha

some union plumbers were on a job a few months ago that I was on. they showed up at 8, by 9 they were taking a break for 20 minutes or more. hour for lunch, they were there for like 8 weeks straight i heard. Talk about milking it out. It wasn't a huge addition either, but they must be taking their time.
homeowner is paying like it's T&M for those guys.

It wasn't my addition. I was there doing some copper work with my roofer, his guys can't solder and do much copper work but he knows that I can.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

480sparky said:


> What is this 'lunch' thing you speak of? :blink:


lunch for me means when I have to drive out for something, i eat while driving and work when I get back.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

LadyGC said:


> Actually, Kowboy, the 8 hour day was first implemented by Henry Ford in 1908. He didn't become union (after fighting them off with strong-armed tactics) until the 1930's.
> 
> My first post and it's anti-union.... oh well.





NJ Brickie said:


> :no: It is ashame your first post was BS.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_ford#Labor_philosophy


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

8 hour days are for sissies.

I worked from 7am until the sun went down today... just before 10pm


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

And then there is the adage......."Work SMARTER, not HARDER!"

There should rarely be a need to work 10 and 12 hour days.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> And then there is the adage......."Work SMARTER, not HARDER!"
> 
> There should rarely be a need to work 10 and 12 hour days.


the more I do the more I make :laughing:

*in all honesty* though, I'm going on vacation sun-wed and have a lot that needs to be finished by saturday. I'll be working 2 more very long days thanks to a week delay in getting materials.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

7am to 10pm? that's not a life, you are a slave to work and why bother even working at that point if you can't see your family, kids, wife, etc.

I may be doing estimates at 10pm or sometimes at 5am, but working for me is 7am to 4 sometimes later. that's a full day for me and a worker. jobs today are tight enough, they don't allow for overtime.
if we get rained out or snowed out during the week, the other days might be longer to catch up hours.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I chose to work hours that i like but there are times where the job must be done as soon as possible to be cost effective too. Sometimes i have lunch, most times i do not. I start when i want and i stop when i want although i prefer the job be done before i leave.

Union or Non Union those guys who did the beatings should be prosecuted for their actions. If that had been me, for one i carry a firearm everyday so i would have shot the perps with the bats. Even if i did not have a firearm i sure would have tried to run them over with the trucks. Believe it or not here in the USA the victims would have been justified using the vehicle as a weapon to escape injury.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

angus242 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_ford#Labor_philosophy


Are you suggesting the 8Hr. work day was introduced by Henry Ford also?:no:


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

NJ Brickie said:


> Are you suggesting the 8Hr. work day was introduced by Henry Ford also?:no:


From the source:

and Crowther in 1922 described it as six 8-hour days, giving a 48-hour week,[24] while in 1926 they described it as five 8-hour days, giving a 40-hour week.[25] (Apparently the program started with Saturdays as workdays and sometime later it was changed to a day off.) Ford says that with this voluntary change, labor turnover in his plants went from huge to so small that he stopped bothering to measure it.[26]

Now if you have something else, post it.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

NJ Brickie said:


> Are you suggesting the 8Hr. work day was introduced by Henry Ford also?


As I see it, I didn't suggest anything....other than to _read _the info about Henry Ford. You can then see how he implemented an 8 hour work day.


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## SC sawdaddy (Oct 15, 2008)

Also from the source:

Meanwhile, he believed that smart managers had an incentive to do right by their workers, because doing so would maximize their own profits. (Ford did acknowledge, however, that many managers were basically too bad at managing to understand this fact.) But Ford believed that eventually, if good managers such as he could fend off the attacks of misguided people from both left and right (i.e., both socialists and bad-manager reactionaries), the good managers would create a socio-economic system wherein neither bad management nor bad unions could find enough support to continue existing.

The breakdown-Take care of your people and they'll take care of you.


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

> I worked from 7am until the sun went down today... just before 10pm


wow the sun goes down there?


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Framer53 said:


> From the source:
> 
> and Crowther in 1922 described it as six 8-hour days, giving a 48-hour week,[24] while in 1926 they described it as five 8-hour days, giving a 40-hour week.[25] (Apparently the program started with Saturdays as workdays and sometime later it was changed to a day off.) Ford says that with this voluntary change, labor turnover in his plants went from huge to so small that he stopped bothering to measure it.[26]
> 
> Now if you have something else, post it.



Workers fought for and won 8 hr work days long before Henry Ford. Atleast as far back as the early to mid 1800's. Not all of the workers were union either. Carpenters in Boston won an 8hr work day before 1850. Who were not union. 
The national general strike in 1886 won many workers an 8hr work day. This was a union activity.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

angus242 said:


> As I see it, I didn't suggest anything....other than to _read _the info about Henry Ford. You can then see how he implemented an 8 hour work day.


I _read _the info on the link. The original post about Ford was directed to Kowboy. In response to the union movement being responsible for the 8 hr work day. The response stated was Henry Ford *first* implemented the 8hr work day. 
I do agree that history states that he went to an 8 hr day. But not first.


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