# Air Cleaners/Purifiers for allergies



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I've got my eye on a few, this one got my attention
http://www.oransi.com/Oransi-Erik-U...c_feed&utm_campaign=comparison_shopping_feeds

I also keep gravitating back to the blueair

https://www.blueair.com/us/air-purifiers/blueair-pro-l

Anyone?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I thought there were plenty of studies done to show these don't help with respiratory problems.


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## Macmini (Sep 16, 2015)

*Air Cleaners/Purifiers For Allergies*

The blue air is pricy and nice. We have the healthmate by Austin air. Still cost 500 but it lasts 5 years.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> I thought there were plenty of studies done to show these don't help with respiratory problems.


I have one in my bedroom that I Shut off for a couple weeks. Wife got a sinus infection the next week. Also if you take a look at the pre filter it is nasty dirty. That's what comes out of the air.


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## Macmini (Sep 16, 2015)

Btw the science behind a simple air filter is pretty solid. The questionable ones have use 2 electrical plates to filter the air and create a lot of ozone.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

It's that carpet in your back yard, Mike. Traps all sorts of allergens. :whistling:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> I have one in my bedroom that I Shut off for a couple weeks. Wife got a sinus infection the next week. Also if you take a look at the pre filter it is nasty dirty. That's what comes out of the air.


Correlation is not causality.

Get her an RZ Mask they are cheaper.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Correlation is not causality.
> 
> Get her an RZ Mask they are cheaper.


No correlation may not be causalty. It's possible it is. And judging by the filter it cleans the air. Anything that's in the filter isn't going into our lungs.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

If hepa filters don't work why do hospitals use them? Not just in clean rooms either.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> If hepa filters don't work why do hospitals use them? Not just in clean rooms either.


Do they have 200 pound dogs living in them?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Do they have 200 pound dogs living in them?


My dog is spotless, compared to what those hospitals get.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

It's pollen that she's allergic to.
She's had three sinus surgeries. Her surgeon recommended the air cleaners. Our home is very clean. It's the year around pollen that kills her.

Mold spores and dust mites as well.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Mike,

I have spent thousands of dollars after teacher complaints of mold, allergies etc.....

Air samples have proven time and time again, the bad chit is just in the air we breathe.

Not a dam thing we can do about it.

Filter the air in your bedroom & house and as soon as she steps outside she is sucking in nasty stuff.....

I have put specialized HEPA air cleaners in classrooms & provided specialized filters, it just did not make a difference.

Bad chit is in the air.

Testified at a few work comp hearings about it.....

The verdict????

Bad chit is just in the air that we breathe......

Maybe a desert climate helps some....


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

griz said:


> Mike,
> 
> I have spent thousands of dollars after teacher complaints of mold, allergies etc.....
> 
> ...


Does It make sense that I could tell her that till I'm blue in the face to no avail. 800 bucks is a small price to pay if you know what I mean. I emphasis "if you know what I mean?!!" :laughing:

With that said, I like the idea of at least cleaning the air that I sleep in. At least 8 hours of clean air a day could help. But the harping in my ear is also well considered! :laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Does It make sense that I could tell her that till I'm blue in the face to no avail. 800 bucks is a small price to pay if you know what I mean. I emphasis "if you know what I mean?!!" :laughing:
> 
> With that said, I like the idea of at least cleaning the air that I sleep in. At least 8 hours of clean air a day could help. But the harping in my ear is also well considered! :laughing:


Don't be stupid and waste the 800 bucks, screw and old VCR to the side of the furnace and tell her it's a HEPA filtration system.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Don't be stupid and waste the 800 bucks, screw and old VCR to the side of the furnace and tell her it's a HEPA filtration system.


I knew a guy that did that with an old 8 track player.

He ran a couple of plastic lines into the furnace cabinet and took the labels off some old cartridges....told her they were the filters....

It worked, she was cured of her headaches in a week....:laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

griz said:


> I knew a guy that did that with an old 8 track player.
> 
> He ran a couple of plastic lines into the furnace cabinet and took the labels off some old cartridges....told her they were the filters....
> 
> It worked, she was cured of her headaches in a week....:laughing:


I placebo air cleaner! I like it!


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> It's pollen that she's allergic to.
> She's had three sinus surgeries. Her surgeon recommended the air cleaners. Our home is very clean. It's the year around pollen that kills her.
> 
> Mold spores and dust mites as well.


Uh, don't be laying this all at the feet of the little lady Mike.
You & I done compared allergies on this very forum.

January and February are my 2 allergy vacation months.
Except this year, if it keeps going like it is, I won't even get that.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Uh, don't be laying this all at the feet of the little lady Mike.
> You & I done compared allergies on this very forum.
> 
> January and February are my 2 allergy vacation months.
> Except this year, if it keeps going like it is, I won't even get that.


It's tough for me to ***** about my allergies when she has had 3 surgeries. But you're right I have them too. I'm also in the hunt for clean air. :thumbsup:


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't know where your at with this, but air should be cleaned through your HVAc system. Those little cheesy purifiers are about as good as the infomercial exercise equipment. Or you could run in addition to hepa HVAc system some air scrubbers. You have to consider filter costs.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> I don't know where your at with this, but air should be cleaned through your HVAc system. Those little cheesy purifiers are about as good as the infomercial exercise equipment. Or you could run in addition to hepa HVAc system some air scrubbers. You have to consider filter costs.


That's just not true, those hepa air cleaners absolutely work, I also use my AC, but that's not even close to a sealed filter. It's a brand new unit too. I have two downstairs and they get nasty dirty from the air. This is a pre filter that fits in front of the sealed hepa filter, it was cleaned 2 days ago. Also looking at how dark one side of the HEPA filter is and how clean the other side is, it's quite obvious it's cleaning the air.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

This one here that's normally all black was in my office

It can't be argued that everything that is stuck in that filter is dust we are not breathing. They exchange the air 5 times an hour for their rated square footage. I'm looking at one that will work for 1300 s.f. Along with theses smaller ones I have no doubt they will clean the air.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

This is the Hepa filter behind the charcoal prefilter. It's about 18"x24"


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm sure I wasn't clear. All of these work when they trap particles in the filter. Are they noisy in the room you are trying to sleep in? Are the replacement filters expensive are the questions about the equipment to be considered. Seams like I could change my filters weekly. Here, humidity is also a factor to prevent any spores from growing. I'm not sure if it's from the air, well I am, because we go to east coast and sinuses clear up. But we have many trees and coal plants, we get headaches as well.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

So, I think fan on continuously on the HVAc would increase air cleanliness if practical to run. Everything inside the house that gets stirred up.

Nice, you have a charcoal filter for odors, I have one for my scrubber but haven't used it yet for flooring adhesives.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> I'm sure I wasn't clear. All of these work when they trap particles in the filter. Are they noisy in the room you are trying to sleep in? Are the replacement filters expensive are the questions about the equipment to be considered. Seams like I could change my filters weekly. Here, humidity is also a factor to prevent any spores from growing. I'm not sure if it's from the air, well I am, because we go to east coast and sinuses clear up. But we have many trees and coal plants, we get headaches as well.


The humidity in Socal is basically a non issue year around. In fact when a tropical storm blows in about once a year people are in awe about how sticky it is outside. I actually like it just because it's different. Only last a few days out of the year. One time we actually got lightning. It was the damnest thing! :laughing:

It's not noisy and the one I'm going to replace it with has an even lower db rating and a higher exchange rate. It's about 1200 bucks. It's also a Hepa. The filters need replaced about every 3 to 4 years they are about 130 bucks. The pre filters just vacuum clean and I replace about twice a year at about 10 bucks a peice.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

MIKE ANTONETTI said:


> So, I think fan on continuously on the HVAc would increase air cleanliness if practical to run. Everything inside the house that gets stirred up.
> 
> Nice, you have a charcoal filter for odors, I have one for my scrubber but haven't used it yet for flooring adhesives.


That prefilter not only cleans odors it adds a ton of life to the Hepa by trapping the bigger stuff and can be vacuumed.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Have a blower door test done to see if your homes natural infiltration is high. If it is. Sealing the home better can also greatly reduce the allergens coming into it. 

Using an HRV or ERV to build a slight positive pressure in the home can also help to keep allergens out.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I know something about this. Nobody can afford to have effective filtration through a whole house, and if they could, they couldn't stand the noise. You can, however, isolate sources from the rest of the house, and create zones or bubbles of clean air effectively and cheaply.

The biggest thing to remember is the intake is going to be dragging in potentially dirty air. If it's dragging it past you, you're going to get loaded up with whatever is in the air unless it's set up to create a circulation pattern that recirculates the cleaned air past you and back into the filter without picking up a bunch of crap.

For a bedroom, you can set ones up in the corner(s) that have a top discharge and side intake, and create local circulation flow that keeps your heads in clean air. You can work out exact placement with incense sticks, lightweight yarn indicators, or any other flow visualizing.

For carpets and floors where walking will stir up anything, HEPA similar to the old cylindrical Honeywell units can be used a couple feet off the floor, but the Honeywell ones would actually need to be upside down. The discharge air acts as a barrier to anything getting stirred up, and the circulation flow pulls it into the filter before it can get into the rest of the room air.

Inexpensive HEPA units work fine, but there are differences between them. I've had good results with Honeywell units. With hard surfaces you can create a class 200 area. 

I wouldn't buy either of the units you linked.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> I know something about this. Nobody can afford to have effective filtration through a whole house, and if they could, they couldn't stand the noise. You can, however, isolate sources from the rest of the house, and create zones or bubbles of clean air effectively and cheaply.
> 
> The biggest thing to remember is the intake is going to be dragging in potentially dirty air. If it's dragging it past you, you're going to get loaded up with whatever is in the air unless it's set up to create a circulation pattern that recirculates the cleaned air past you and back into the filter without picking up a bunch of crap.
> 
> ...


I've had three Honeywells they are too noisy. I'll never buy another one. What's your reason not to buy the ones I've mentioned. The specs are very good the ratings are good.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

beenthere said:


> Have a blower door test done to see if your homes natural infiltration is high. If it is. Sealing the home better can also greatly reduce the allergens coming into it.
> 
> Using an HRV or ERV to build a slight positive pressure in the home can also help to keep allergens out.


What does a blower door test? I'm very interested to know what it's about and how it's done as well. Thanks.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blower_door

The Internet is an amazing thing


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Looking at honeywell website I'm just not feeling it as far as anything near the quality as the two I posted. Especially the size. Maybe I'm searching the amazing internet wrong. 

I'm not one to look at price to indicate quaity but higher price seems to be consistent with size and specs being better. Especially the ability to move air with lower db ratings. 

http://yourhome.honeywell.com/en/products/air-purifier


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

This one got kicked out of the room and put in the office because the only setting that was tolerable to sleep in was low. I now have a whirlpool in there which is bigger and quiter. But I'd like a bigger one I can put either in my room or somewhere in the middle of the house. Something in the 1100 sf. Range.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> What does a blower door test? I'm very interested to know what it's about and how it's done as well. Thanks.


As the link Warner posted says. It induced a pressure difference between the building and outside. 

Good companies will also use an IR imager to look for the leak areas, and show you the pics of where they are.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> I've had three Honeywells they are too noisy. I'll never buy another one. What's your reason not to buy the ones I've mentioned. The specs are very good the ratings are good.


Agreed, noise can be a huge problem. I didn't see the specs on the ones you posted, which is why I passed on them. I wouldn't be too concerned with the unit specs, other than noise and air flow. The actual filter specs are what count. 

Also, having the air come in the back and out the front isn't a very useful air flow setup.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I did some more quick checking, and I don't see squat for specs on anything. That's going to be a real hassle (as if you didn't know).


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Here's the blueair


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Oransi-Erik-Ultra-Air-Purifier


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Something in the 1100 sf. Range.


That eliminates all but a few...


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Sisyphus said:


> :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't figure out why the clean room approach didn't work. It should have eliminated my allergies to airborne allergens just as quickly as a snowfall does.


Do you have a few giant dogs running around?


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## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Do you have a few giant dogs running around?


Good question! 

I didn't at that time. The bedroom was spartan, just a bed, TV and radio. No obvious mold or other allergen source. Air was blowing under the bedroom door into the rest of the house so the positive air pressure seemed to be working.

I put an electronic air cleaner in series with the HEPA one because I thought it might collect smaller particles but it didn't seem to get dirty at all. Brands were IQ Air, Bionaire and Sears (electronic). 2 of each brand running 24/7. Room was warm!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Sisyphus said:


> I still can't figure out why the clean room approach didn't work. It should have eliminated my allergies to airborne allergens just as quickly as a snowfall does.


From your description of what you did, I didn't see that you set up circulation patterns or used an air curtain type of approach. Plus you would need to change your clothes / shoes before entering the space.

None of that gets the allergens out of your nose, lungs, ...


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## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

hdavis said:


> From your description of what you did, I didn't see that you set up circulation patterns or used an air curtain type of approach. Plus you would need to change your clothes / shoes before entering the space.
> 
> None of that gets the allergens out of your nose, lungs, ...


Good points (and tactfully worded). 

I didn't consider circulation patterns at all but your post led me to reflect and I think they were good. The supply to the room promoted a nice clockwise air flow through the bedroom, out into the open plan living area, back into the bedroom etc. Jogs and openings in the floor plan were (fortuitously) enhancing the circulation.

The bedroom itself was getting up to 60 air changes per hour (depending on settings of cleaners in each corner). Yeah it got noisy and warm.

Air curtain (Good thought!) might have helped. 

House had wood and ceramic flooring and was almost empty. (I stayed there while we were working on the outside.) I'd drop clothes, shower/shampoo before going into the clean room. Shampooing made a difference!


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## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

Here's the salient point....my allergies fluctuate depending on the time of day and the weather. In the "clean room" the fluctuations continued. It didn't protect me from change outside after I went in. HEPA cleaners weren't enough for me.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Sisyphus said:


> Here's the salient point....my allergies fluctuate depending on the time of day and the weather. In the "clean room" the fluctuations continued. It didn't protect me from change outside after I went in. HEPA cleaners weren't enough for me.


If you didn't use the HEPA units to set up air curtains, they wouldn't do much.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

airtrackhvac said:


> There are five basic types: Mechanical filters force air through a special screen that traps particles including allergens like pollen, pet dander, and dust mites. They also capture irritant particles such as tobacco smoke. The best-known mechanical filter is the high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filter.


Which is why they are used in clean rooms and hospitals.


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## P42003 (Jun 15, 2016)

re: CaliforniaDecks: Wouldn't you be better using 2" pleated filters rather than a 1" pleated + prefilter? Yes, the prefilter can be cleaned, but the 2" won't "load up" like the 1" + prefilter.


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## P42003 (Jun 15, 2016)

No one mentioned dirt in our vehicles. 

The newer vehicles have in-cab air filters, but you still get stuff on the seats, seatbelts, steering wheel, etc. I am allergic to two types of mold and I can smell it in my vehicle after going in a crawlspace that is particularly moldy. H-Davis mentioned shampoo, which sounds trivial, but I carry shampoo and use it often after being in a moldy crawlspace, otherwise the mold can cause me a sinus headache. I didn't use to have to be so anal about keeping clean of mold, but as years have passed it has become more noticeable and important to my particular situation.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Wow, from welders to air scrubbers.

Tell me about the 2021 Ford Expedition Max.

Extra credit for hyperlinks.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Darn, banned before I got to ask if the smell was still there when she wasn't.


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