# Plowing question



## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

We've always plowed for our town. Nice set up. They provide plows for loader & backhoe & repair/maintain them. We also have 2 F-350's. One plows for town & the other plows our own properties. I've always thought about getting into some more commercial plowing. We would have to invest some $ in pusher & sander at least.

Recently a developer @ condo site we did asked for a price to plow & sand the site. He also asked his roofer who does a ton of parking lots around here. The site has 100' x 56' road, 250' x 26' road & 10 driveways 30' x 12'. Guys gives him a price of $150 per push. Even the developer thinks it seems super cheap. The same guy charges him$50 for his office parking lot which seems insanely cheap. With guys like this & landscapers running around plowing I'm not sure I should bother.

Just looking for feedback from guys who have experience plowing private lots what they think. After winter you can always find decent deals on guys who went broke over the winter.

Wish I could get someone to pay us to stack snow with our excavator!

Thanks in advance.


----------



## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

If you have to plow the driveways too, I would stay away. Too many problems dealing with the homeowners. You hit my bush or my landscape lighting. We only do commerical lots for those reasons. IMO, if you have to go out and purchase equipment for snowplowing, then you are not making a wise investment. With those prices, it would take you years to get the money back. Too many headaches for little money.


----------



## Hmrepairs (Sep 11, 2010)

Used to do a nice apartment complex, used skid steer and blade on the pickup. Money was okay, they didn't really shop me since I did all their other work. What I hated about snow removal was being unable to leave town for a couple days for fear it might snow. Easy I guess if you have employees, but it was just me at that time. 

Also, like said before, I wouldn't spend on equipment just to move snow.


----------



## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Everyones price is going to differ on how much profit one wants to make and how well they can do the job. If this fella has his truck set up right it may not take him more than an hour to plow this so $150 per push for him may be good money. Pics would be better to know if how the lots are set up, how the driveways are located and if the are asphalt or not. I myself know i have plowed much more than this for less money, but i also learned when to say no and how to charge so i make money. I myself charge $30 minimum for any driveway now and price varies from there depending on size, obstacles, grade, access and accumulation.


----------



## apkole (Mar 18, 2006)

I owned a plowing company for a few years (14 or so) up until a couple of years ago. On the face of it, his numbers don't look too bad. If the drives are clustered reasonably close, and he's using the right equipment (front and back plows on a pickup) he can knock those drives out in about 3 minutes each. If he's back dragging with the front plow, his efficiency is suffering. I would suspect that the roads aren't taking him much more than 15 - 20 minutes each.

However, from my LIMITED experience  , I would say that he's probably working at about break even, allowing for depreciation, maintenance (transmission rebuilds aren't cheap), insurance, fuel and some coffee money. But hey, I'm a roofer and spent last night in the warm cabs of a pickup, loader and salt truck. Warmer than roofing right now . . .

Even if you match his price or go slightly lower to get the work, the property owner will most likely use your quote to beat up their current service provider for a better price . . . 

Wow, just noticed plow and sand?? He's PAYING the CUSTOMER for the opportunity to work . . .

Great thing about this country . . . no one will stop us from working for free:clap:


----------



## farmboy555 (Aug 13, 2006)

After last year and all the cut throats in my area. My equipment is staying parked in the shop


----------



## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

I wouldn't do driveways or buy more than pusher & sander. I could handle small lots all the way to a walmart size lot depnding on what equip. I put on it. Just not sure if I would make that much more money that it would be worth the risk. 

Most guys tell me they make more on sanding than plowing but it can be more of a pain in the @ss. I almost bought pusher last year @ auction because I though they were going cheap.

I still might do the condos (at my price) because the owner is picky & still has units for sale. No big deal either way.


----------



## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

what really separates the boys from the men is when there is a few feet dump in a day or 2 and he is running around for that 150

helped a buddy last year we had 23 inches in a little over a day......just one commercial account between the sidewalks,drives and of course drifting..took 2 of us 12 hrs...went thur a hydro pump on blade and snowblower needed a rebuild the next day..for 150 i wouldnt of even opened my back door to go out


----------



## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

The guys I work with, .....we go hourly, the more snow...the longer it takes.
If we are done and the customer wants more...start the clock, we're on the way.

$150 for what was described.....Not possible out here in the real world.


----------



## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

I've plowed snow for about 15 years or so and to be honest that is awfully cheap. if he is charging 150 per push and there is an additional charge for sand/salt that is one thing but for everything that is pretty low. I've always found it a lot more fun to lose money sitting at home than to lose money working at it. besides, snow pushers and spreaders aren't cheap to begin with and if you dont already have them dont bother getting them just to do one job. if you can mange to put together a couple more properties for the winter that requires that type of equipment then that's a whole different matter.


----------



## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

> posted by peteo
> 
> I've plowed snow for about 15 years or so and to be honest that is awfully cheap. if he is charging 150 per push and there is an additional charge for sand/salt that is one thing but for everything that is pretty low. I've always found it a lot more fun to lose money sitting at home than to lose money working at it. besides, snow pushers and spreaders aren't cheap to begin with and if you dont already have them dont bother getting them just to do one job. if you can mange to put together a couple more properties for the winter that requires that type of equipment then that's a whole different matter.


Sanding wasn't included but still way too cheap. Definitely would have to pick up a few properties if I decided buy pusher/sander. I think more about it when there is a small storm when we don't plow for the town but guys who do privates get to go out plowing or sanding.


----------



## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

upchuck said:


> Recently a developer @ condo site we did asked for a price to *plow & sand the site*. He also asked his roofer who does a ton of parking lots around here. The site has 100' x 56' road, 250' x 26' road & 10 driveways 30' x 12'. Guys gives him a price of $150 per push. Even the developer thinks it seems super cheap. The same guy charges him$50 for his office parking lot which seems insanely......





upchuck said:


> Sanding wasn't included but still way too cheap


Well which is it? With or with out sanding?

Ice melter can also add quite a bit to the bill. Around here we need ice melter to keep everyone happy.


----------



## antnepi (Aug 26, 2008)

$90 an hour around here for a 2500 pick-up. Skidloader is around $115. Labor for a shovel man is between $40 and $50 an hour.


----------



## SDC (Jan 12, 2009)

Talk to some of these guys.....http://www.plowsite.com/index.php

They are very helpful...It is a professional forum just like here. Plowing is even more of a cutthroat business than construction. 
Just like here you need to know your costs. 
As I'm sure you know cause you plow for your town, plowing insurance can be very pricey for commercial plowing, its not the snow removal but the sanding and icing. People fall and sue all the time.....your are the sander you are the one getting sued.....


----------



## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

> Posted by tgeb
> 
> Well which is it? With or with out sanding?
> 
> Ice melter can also add quite a bit to the bill. Around here we need ice melter to keep everyone happy.


Sorry about that. 
Price didn't include sanding.


----------



## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

> Posted by SDC
> Talk to some of these guys.....http://www.plowsite.com/index.php
> 
> They are very helpful...It is a professional forum just like here. Plowing is even more of a cutthroat business than construction.
> ...


I checked out that site. It's not too bad besides people looking for "going rate". I know what I would charge just not sure if I should change focus from plowing public to private. Good point about insurance. That will be my 1st call.


----------



## Redneckpete (Feb 22, 2008)

I’m in my second year not plowing after having plowed every year for 20 years. In that time I missed two storms, one because I was out of town and one because I was deathly ill. I’ve plowed as an employee, by the hour subcontracting, per clear, per season and just about every other variant you can think of.

The price per clear means nothing. Most contracts spec that clearing must be done at 1.5 or 2 inches. What that means on a per-clear contract is that the second there is two inches of snow on the ground, clearing starts. People need access, etc, etc.

During a 6 inch snow event, the lot gets scraped a minimum of three times. Not curb to curb, not even really cleared, but the plow truck is there at least three times during the event, and three clears are billed. Checking up on the lot a day later usually reveals a bit of drifting that needs to be cleaned up, which depending on how bad it is billed as at least a half clear.

The salting and sanding required make the contract quite profitable. If they don’t want salting or sanding they assume all slip and fall liability which they don’t want to do. The second they complain about a bill, you show up with a liability waver that says you will only clear on request, and that the pricing is per inch of accumulation.

Snow-clearing is very lucrative. It also controls your life; you can never leave and spend three nights a week checking your places.

Pete


----------



## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

SDC said:


> Talk to some of these guys.....http://www.plowsite.com/index.php
> 
> They are very helpful...It is a professional forum just like here. Plowing is even more of a cutthroat business than construction.
> Just like here you need to know your costs.
> As I'm sure you know cause you plow for your town, plowing insurance can be very pricey for commercial plowing, its not the snow removal but the sanding and icing. People fall and sue all the time.....your are the sander you are the one getting sued.....


plowsite.com is a censor site...say a negative comment about USM or SIMA...and the thread gets yanked...and as far as that site being professional....i think there is 2% legit snow contractors there...and 98% that...gee, i have a 4wd pickup, i can buy a plow and make a killin guys


----------



## apkole (Mar 18, 2006)

www.letstalksnow.com is a great site. Guys are professional and helpful. It's a CT version of snowplowing.


----------



## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I am going to butt on with my opinion on sanding, i myself do not make a lot of money sanding my residential accounts. People do not want to pay for the snow removal no less an additional charge of sand which they think we get for free. My commercial accounts however pay decent for sand when needed. None of my accounts require salt or any kind of ice melt as of yet. In larger commercial accounts i can see where salt/ice melt will make some money and help reduce any liabilities on your neck but now your talking about purchasing extra equipment and buying more material up front before the season begins.


----------

