# Starting New Company. Trying to obtain real time information for the current economy



## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

So, I've been stalking these forums for a few weeks keeping an eye on you jokers. :jester:

Anyways, I have a few questions that I hope you all can help with. Any industry professional (other gc's, subs, designers, etc) is welcome to comment and/or add to the advice.

My latest background has been in commercial construction. I am wanting to move into residential construction for myself. I'm in the process of obtaining all the necessary licenses and insurances needed to chase the work I am looking for. My projects will be from approximately $50,000 to about $300,000.

I have a bunch of questions for you, so, I will list them all out here. 

1. For those that have experience similar to mine, what are some common things I should look out for in the switch from commercial to residential? Example: Bidding in residential based on historic pricing rather than actual sub pricing. In commercial, 90% of our numbers come from a subcontractor actually looking at the drawings and giving us a bid for that particular project. We add those up, add our markups, and that's our final competitive bid to the owner. 

2. Assuming a contract price of $100,000, what percentage of that number would be actual subcontracts. Let's assume that I am subcontracting out 100% of the actual work in place. I know that there are many direct costs to my firm that are not subcontractor pricing, so, we can leave those out for now (including OH&P). I'm developing cash flow projections and need to know what percentage of my payment from the owner will go towards my subcontractors cost. I know this isn't 100% accurate, but, it should give me a good ballpark to go by. 

4. Are you charging a super to each of your projects? Maybe you only use a percentage of his salary. This would be because you are assuming he always has two projects. How often is a representative of your firm on a jobsite. Everyday and all day? Once a week? Just wondering.

5. Where are you getting most of your work valued at over let's say....100K.

6. If you are local to the Atlanta market, how much work is out there above 100k. How much competition is there chasing that work? Is there enough to go around? Are you having to get so competitive that you are not able to build net worth of your company?

7. How often are you able to make draws from the homeowner? Are most holding 10% retainage on you? Are you able to negotiate payment terms, or is there a standard you are following?


Most of these questions are pretty personal and could be considered an industry secret. So, if you are willing to share and let me pick your brain, I would appreciate it very much. Maybe you would prefer a PM or phone call to discuss. Just shoot me a private message if you don't want to post here.

Thanks in advance for your responses and thanks for all the help you didn't even know you gave me already.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Am I asking too much?


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

rdr8887 said:


> Am I asking too much?



Yes

try asking one at a time in a unique thread, also think about changing the way you ask, example instead of this

_3. What percentage of your revenue is OH&P?_, you should be asking how to figure your own OH&P


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Pearce Services said:


> Yes
> 
> try asking one at a time in a unique thread, also think about changing the way you ask, example instead of this
> 
> _3. What percentage of your revenue is OH&P?_, you should be asking how to figure your own OH&P


I didn't want to clog the place up with 7 different threads. Sorry about that. And I guess I don't necessary need to know exact numbers. Maybe a range would be better to ask for. 

But, I'm trying to make sure that my gross and net profit goals aren't either way too high or leaving too much money on the table. Trying to figure out industry standards in the current economy.

I surely understand if no one wants to share this proprietary information with me. Either way, some advice moving forward is always and much appreciated.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

Yes, your asking too much. Everyone here has there own formula, way of doing business and so to say proprietary information that may not be worth much to the next person but is to them. 

You as a business owner need to find your own niche, your own self value and what it costs you to run a business.

For instance, if Joe Blow bid a job at 8000 and you were at 9000 and you think to youself he's gonna lose his arse...then your completely in the wrong, for all you know, He could be making more money on that job than you.

My point is that you and you only have to put your cost of doing business and your worth on top of what the job is going to cost you.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

BrandConst said:


> Yes, your asking too much. Everyone here has there own formula, way of doing business and so to say proprietary information that may not be worth much to the next person but is to them.
> 
> You as a business owner need to find your own niche, your own self value and what it costs you to run a business.
> 
> ...


Very true. However, I'm coming in creating a company that will not have a previous reputation of completed projects to fall back on. If I'm consistently high on my bids, I will never get work. I have to be low in order to get some good work. I'll probably have to even bond a few projects if the owner is still hesitant. Just wanted to see what I was competing against. I'll just fine tune my numbers as I progress and get a feel for things. 

I have edited my questions to remove those about overhead and profit. I figured they would be stretch anyway. How about some of the other questions? Specifically number 1. Any advice is appreciated.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Your already falling into an awful habit that will lead to failure.

Never ever EVER bid lowball numbers just to get the job. 

If after bidding a job you need to make $20,000 than that's what it costs. Furthermore,once you begin a pattern of coming in low its what will be expected. It will become your reputation.

Don't market to the ones looking for the cheapest price, but rather market to those that are willing to pay for quality work.

As far as the transition,its dependent on the area of business. I try to stay away from resi because honestly I just hate working for homeowners. Having said that I've done my fair share of home improvement and remodeling,usually for a commercial customer and the biggest difference is the material and application of it. There are different ways of building in resi than it is in commercial. Layout stays the same, but imo from there out its a different ball game.

Knowledge of how to frame,form,roof etc is transferable from one arena to the other,but there are many different ways resi guys do things that us commercial guys do another way and vise versa.

Customers are totally different as well. Commercial and industrial has a more streamlined procedure of how things get done from design-bid-build that residential. The homeowners generally aren't in touch with the building and remodeling process as a building operations manager or developer, so there is more hand holding and explanation giving.

I've just Touched the tip of the iceberg, but I need to stress again do NOT begin your business by bidding low to get the job. It'll be the worst mistake you'll make and you won't have even started yet.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

If you think we are your answer, you are doomed


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Mud Master said:


> I've just Touched the tip of the iceberg, but I need to stress again do NOT begin your business by bidding low to get the job. It'll be the worst mistake you'll make and you won't have even started yet.


I want my company known for trust, quality work, and great relationships with my clients. However, sitting down at the closing table, I'm afraid it will be almost impossible to sell an owner on my services if I'm not the low bidder. He's looking at a guy who is a little cheaper who has been in business 15 years. Difference being he can prove that he can do good work and keep people happy. I can't. 

Putting yourself into the homeowner's shoes, what would sell you to pick me? I honestly can't think of anything other than price. I know what I have against my competition, but, I can't yet prove it. I haven't had the chance to build those references. The HO I'm at the table with is my first reference. 

There is too much competition and low bidding going on now anyway. I'd like to find a good angle so I don't have to add to the pool. I can't afford to be thought of as the cheap guy. I want my company around when my son gets old enough to make the mistake of doing construction....lol


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

you need to take a good look through this business forum, because the more you dig into these topics, I think you will realize how much more you need to learn.

1) Find your pricing structure
2) find your marketing strategy
3) find your sales technique

No one can tell you what is best for any of these, it is a personal thing, what works for one guy does not work for the next.

However you do this, you need to approach a potential project with 2 goals, first is to decide if this is the right project for you, and second, if it is, you need to present to the client that you are the only logical choice. If you are not confident that you are their best value, and you dont present your justification, then you are correct, they will never hire you.

The low bid does not always get the work, if you give them nothing else to focus on, then low bid will get the work.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Don't be deceptive but choose your words wisely, why tell them you've never remodeled a kitchen unless they ask. Design their kitchen and help them pick materials, present the contract, complete the project, then tell them they're the first. If you have no pictures then use the manufacturers catalogs to show examples, say "I really think this sink from whoever would look really great in your project" it's selling, that's all it is. Rarely does anyone say "you're my first project" just get in there and sell. You won't sell everyone everytime so just get out there and present till you sell.


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## ASIinc. (Jun 4, 2008)

Im still trying to figure out why you would want to go from commericial to residential.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

RobertCDF said:


> Don't be deceptive but choose your words wisely, why tell them you've never remodeled a kitchen unless they ask. Design their kitchen and help them pick materials, present the contract, complete the project, then tell them they're the first. If you have no pictures then use the manufacturers catalogs to show examples, say "I really think this sink from whoever would look really great in your project" it's selling, that's all it is. Rarely does anyone say "you're my first project" just get in there and sell. You won't sell everyone everytime so just get out there and present till you sell.


Very good advice. Thank you. I planned to do that a little anyway. I would think most clients want to see pictures of my work. I guess I could show them some commercial work I have done. Some of the higher end finish interior work. They probably won't much care about precast panels, but might like to see a nice reception desk.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

ASIinc. said:


> Im still trying to figure out why you would want to go from commericial to residential.


I'll give you a good example. A $150,000 renovation job I looked at the other day had 32 different companies at the pre-bid meeting. About 26 actually turned in numbers to be a GC. That would be the smallest project I have ever looked at in commercial. But on a $19 Mil school we would see 12-18 bidders. 5 or 6 years ago we would only compete with 4 guys. 

I also like the client relations in residential. Some people might think I was crazy. But I can manage a client pretty well.


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## BreyerConstruct (May 22, 2006)

So why start out ground-up?
This is a big jump..l it might be worth art nearing with or working for someone doing what you want to do.


Please realize that you are, or will be, leveraging everything you own,band possibly ever will own, on this gamble... Just to try and do what dozens of other firms in your area do. You need to know why you must own the company, and how you will be different.

Matt


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

rdr8887 said:


> Very good advice. Thank you. I planned to do that a little anyway. I would think most clients want to see pictures of my work. I guess I could show them some commercial work I have done. Some of the higher end finish interior work. They probably won't much care about precast panels, but might like to see a nice reception desk.


In all my years in business I've NEVER shown a PICTURE of my work to a customer. Honest truth.

I've rarely lacked work in all that time.

They've either seen my work at one of their friend's home, or gotten a word of mouth referral. 

Don't get hung up on lowballing just because you lack pics. Concentrate on what's been said above. There's a wealth of education in this thread alone + the rest of CT.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

The very first remodel job I ever got was a $175k whole house remodel. The owner never even asked any questions about previous jobs I did. Really, he was just happy that I would do it as the bank declined the first three contractors he picked.

The point is, there are lots of people who never ask to see previous work, or ask for referrals. I think most people pick you because of the rapport that you build with them if you take an interest, and respond to their questions and concerns.

You would be surprised at how many contractors never even respond after their first meeting, or show up looking like a slob. 

Be professional, do what you say you are going to do, and don't worry about being the cheapest guy. Studies show that most people don't pick the cheapest price anyway.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

skcolo said:


> The very first remodel job I ever got was a $175k whole house remodel. The owner never even asked any questions about previous jobs I did. Really, he was just happy that I would do it as the bank declined the first three contractors he picked.
> 
> The point is, there are lots of people who never ask to see previous work, or ask for referrals. I think most people pick you becauseN of the rapport that you build with them if you take an interest, and respond to their questions and concerns.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks.


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

You're going from commercial to residential remodeling and asking all those questions in this economy? 

You're already out of business. Seriously, it's a totally different monster and I wouldn't risk one dime of your money unless you had someone taking you by the hand who knows the business. 

Residential builders now looking to widen their net by taking on remodeling projects because of the economy are loosing their shirts.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

ranteso said:


> You're going from commercial to residential remodeling and asking all those questions in this economy?
> 
> You're already out of business. Seriously, it's a totally different monster and I wouldn't risk one dime of your money unless you had someone taking you by the hand who knows the business.
> 
> Residential builders now looking to widen their net by taking on remodeling projects because of the economy are loosing their shirts.


I have some experience in remodeling. I also have a good friend who has been doing this for 25 years. He is going to help me out as needed and answer any questions I might have. However, if I follow his advice from a business standpoint, I'd be the cheapest guy and run out of money within the first year...lol. 

Most of my questions are geared towards the business end. I have every confidence in my ability to manage the work. I've gotten pretty good at spotting the unexpected. But, there will definitely be a learning curve. I would be ignorant to assume that there wasn't.

You mentioned that people who used to build houses are losing their shirt on the remodeling jobs. What mistakes are they making to cost them?


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## CJ21 (Aug 11, 2007)

Building a house and remodeling is not the same thing. I dont think you can sub out a remodeling job expect for wiring and plumbing work. If I am wrong someone correct me.


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## jimmys (May 1, 2009)

You can sub out whatever you can find subs to do. But usually in a remodel your customer wants to know your interest in his project, that enthusiasm and aura of competence you projected when you sold him your services, is what you bring to the work. You can't subcontract that.
Jim


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## CJ21 (Aug 11, 2007)

Ok thanks Jim for clearing that, I know around here most spec builders dont do remodels.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

jimmys said:


> You can sub out whatever you can find subs to do. But usually in a remodel your customer wants to know your interest in his project, that enthusiasm and aura of competence you projected when you sold him your services, is what you bring to the work. You can't subcontract that.
> Jim


I both agree and disagree here. You can't subcontract that out, you are right. Most people don't care about the end user, only that I am paying them to do a specific job. 

But, you can still manage the work and ensure the owner's vision is being adhered to. I don't think most people care who is doing the actual work. They are coming to me because they want less hassles and want one point of contact for the project. Someone with more knowledge then themselves. They need a medium to look out for their best interest. 

Am I way off base here...or was that what you were referring too? Sometimes I read what I want to read....ha


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

Evening Atlanta GA, 

"You mentioned that people who used to build houses are losing their shirt on the remodeling jobs. What mistakes are they making to cost them?"

It was a blanket statement and clearly does not apply to every builder, but for the most part remodeling projects are foreign to builders, especially those who sub out much of their work.

I believe the biggest mistake a contractor can make is not being directly involved with every aspect of the process. That means on site, and sometimes wearing a tool belt. (you don't need to be breaking your azz, but knowing and living every inch of the job IMO is key to a smooth successful outcome) and that outcome is the bottom line, a handsome profit. 



CJ21, "I dont think you can sub out a remodeling job expect for wiring and plumbing work" 

I do bring in other subs as needed Rock, Tape, Insulation, but your (CJ21) point is much along what I believe.


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## CJ21 (Aug 11, 2007)

I forgot about sheetrock, thats a sub contractor trade!


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Ranteso,

Are there any specific problems or issues you have seen come up that end up costing the gc more than his markup?


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

http://www.contractortalk.com/members/rdr8887-85149/rdr8887,

That's a good question and the answer would require a book. I never kept a play book on every mistake I made where I lost money. Maybe I should have but when you get hurt you usually remember those lessons fairly well. 

There are a myriad of reasons for losing profit, and depending on the contractors experience and project complexity the degree of risk varies. 

I only do lump sum contracts. My price is what it is, take it or leave it, and I take all the risk. It works for me because I'm very confident in my estimating of remodeling projects. I know my work force, knowing what we can do and how long it takes to do it, and I have a very close working relationship with my trade relationships (subs) 

If I had to list a few key reasons as to what would eat up your profit I guess these would be at the top 1. Not knowing your actual costs for the job right down to all those incidentals that always cost more then you anticipated. 2. Not having a good grasp of the actual time it will take to complete. 3. Taking on projects you don't know inside and out and not budgeting for unknowns on job you do know inside and out. 4. Pricing out your project according to what you think the "other guy" would charge or what you think the "industry average" is.

I'm sure guys here can add volumes.


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

knucklehead said:


> If you think we are your answer, you are doomed



I just saw that, you're a riot knucklehead!


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## oaks renovation (Jun 16, 2007)

rdr8887 said:


> I don't think most people care who is doing the actual work. They are coming to me because they want less hassles and want one point of contact for the project. Someone with more knowledge then themselves. They need a medium to look out for their best interest.


I could not disagree more if I was yelling it from a roof top. My clientele keep coming to me because I am not an absentee contractor. My reputation is for my level of attention to detail and conscientious nature your not gonna get that by chance or a residual effect of wearing a shirt with a starched collar . People don't really want people in their lives that are swinging by the job on their way home from swinging a golf club to collect a check.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

You again. :whistling:laughing:

May I seriously ask your back ground? Any trades experience? College I'm guessing is a yes. Any experience in residential remodeling? At what level, nail banger or just a manager? Any experience building custom homes? Lots of commercial supers are lost in residential, and vice versa. I only ask out of curiosity.

Lots of guy s think remodels is a good way to break into homebuilding. Some guys are good at either right away, but I know many home builders who suck at remodeling. The worst mistake for a rookie builder to make is start off bidding remodels dirt cheap, ****s up the market and leaves them broke and run out of town on a rail. Not everyone, many are good at right away, those guys are usually good at everything right away.

When doing remodeling estimates, keep in mind, a 16,000$ bath remodel is still going to take a lot of your time and trips, even if your subbing everything. Lots of time moving and protecting furniture and possessions, lots of plastic floor protection. Material staging and keeping a pristine site are very important to your efficiency, image and reputation. Most important referals. 

Scheduling is very important, both a personal schedule for time management, but especially critical path scheduling for each project. I reccomend Mind Mapper and Project for this. All this should be a strength for you as you are coming from project management anyway.

You mentioned when you go to sell a project that you have nothing to fall back on but price. Wrong. When my dad started this our current company in 07 he started out bidding at good margins. He almost starved. He only grossed around 200,000 his first year, took nothing but a modest salary and invested in brand recognition and marketing. Next year he did about the same. I came on in 09 , he had three weeks of work in front of him and I left a good job as superintendent doing commercial TIs. He payed me 2/3 of what I was making and invested the first 6 months to me learning all his systems and tweaking them to fit my mold. He did 350000 or so that year. Almost half of that was on one guest house. I started networking my ass off, he never has and never will. He made me a partner that year. Because of his brand recognition and reputation here over the last 20 years and my networking we increased our gross revenue by 50% . The next year we went in the high six figures. That was the FIRST time either pelt us took a bonus. We bought and paid for 4 work vehicles, I got a new one this year. It takes discipline to invest back into the business, but a large operating account is paramount if you plan to PAY YOUR SUBS ON TIME. 

Gross revenue actually means little. We are far more profitable on the kitchen and bath remodels, even at half the revenue of our custom homes and additions. Higher markups mean higher margins. My friend grossed 1.7 this year building 5 custom homes, and we made almost the same amount of money , because he sells at lower markup on his homes. It is important to state that we would not be as profitable on remodels if we weren't very efficient at them. We are choosy with custom homes, there are to many players in that game here and we aren't going to win on price.

Using very good trades, at all levels, especially finish work is very important, its worth it imo to get established as a high end builder than to make a killing on markups at first. Once you are in demand you will be able to charge higher markups. 

Don't play the image game imo. When your a startup work from a home office, hopefully with out a truck payment. Get good insurance. Network hard. This will let your markups be more profitable instead of paying for un needed overhead. Save as much as you can after marketing to operating capitol.

Don't be scared to get your hands dirty, even if you aren't a tradesman, do your own setups and clean up.

There is a lot more, but my thumbs are tired, typing on my smart phone. Laptop is at the office.

One more thing, having experienced subs will be critical. I have been doing this for my living for 11 years, both with bags on and as Super or PM, and I would still have trouble at times if I didn't have an experienced partner in my dad. I'm blessed in that aspect.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> I want my company known for trust, quality work, and great relationships with my clients. However, sitting down at the closing table, I'm afraid it will be almost impossible to sell an owner on my services if I'm not the low bidder. He's looking at a guy who is a little cheaper who has been in business 15 years. Difference being he can prove that he can do good work and keep people happy. I can't.
> 
> Putting yourself into the homeowner's shoes, what would sell you to pick me? I honestly can't think of anything other than price. I know what I have against my competition, but, I can't yet prove it. I haven't had the chance to build those references. The HO I'm at the table with is my first reference.
> 
> There is too much competition and low bidding going on now anyway. I'd like to find a good angle so I don't have to add to the pool. I can't afford to be thought of as the cheap guy. I want my company around when my son gets old enough to make the mistake of doing construction....lol


 Sell yourself. By being knowlegeble of products and job knowledge in general. Have the right answers but more important have the right questions. Understand what their vision is and sell that vision by making that project come to life in your scope of work. Explain what your bidding. Show that your windows, doors, flooring and appliances are what they want, the other guys aren't, his bid is smoke and mirrors. Don't bash the other guy, promote yourself. Be confident. Explain how your process works. Give them what they want, not what they want to hear.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

CJ21 said:


> Building a house and remodeling is not the same thing. I dont think you can sub out a remodeling job expect for wiring and plumbing work. If I am wrong someone correct me.


 Many remodelers sub everything, just acting as a GC. Many do very well. That being said, I don't wear a tool belt much anymore, only when slow, behind or because I want to. Lol. My dad hasn't worn his bags for 10 years except when on his own house or a peice of furniture or cabinet he wants to do. 

We do have an inhouse paint crew and trim/renovation carpenters though. I sub almost all framing. More efficient to sub it. I sub everything but paint, trim, some drywall, demo, interior framing and cabinet finishes. 

The only way you can have sufficient enough job knowledge as a remodeler is to have trades experience imo. I still have much I should learn in MEPs, I have no experience in any of them. Studying and asking questions have helped that, but a long way to go. Actually helping the trades when time allows really speeds up the process.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> Many remodelers sub everything, just acting as a GC. Many do very well. That being said, I don't wear a tool belt much anymore, only when slow, behind or because I want to. Lol. My dad hasn't worn his bags for 10 years except when on his own house or a peice of furniture or cabinet he wants to do.
> 
> We do have an inhouse paint crew and trim/renovation carpenters though. I sub almost all framing unless I myself am going to do it, and that has been a while. More efficient to sub it. I sub everything but paint, trim, some drywall, demo and interior framing.
> 
> Imo, the only way you can have sufficient enough job knowledge as a remodeler is to have trades experience imo. I still have much I should learn in MEPs, I have no experience in any of them. Studying and asking questions have helped that, but a long way to go. Actually helping the trades when time allows really speeds up the process.


When you sub all of that work are you on the job all day everyday or just mornings/evenings?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> When you sub all of that work are you on the job all day everyday or just mornings/evenings?


 We usually run two good size projects, 3 right now and one or two smaller jobs. Right now 2 additions, one whole house renovation, and a bath remodel. We are also bidding a lot of work, so being on the job all day every day is impossible. My brother is our lead carpenter, he is also a he'll of a cabinet finisher and painter, and he is a big help. In a few years he will have a lot more responsibility with his ever increasing job knowledge. 

I am running the bath remodel and one addition, my old man is running the whole house reno( 70% complete) and is overseeing the foundation and frame of the other addition. By that time, I will be almost out of my other addition and my brother will run the finishing stages for the most part, under my direction. He is at the whole house reno full rime right now.

In addition to bidding other work, my dad also designed the additions on SoftPlan. I'm all for subbing the drawings, but he does most of them on additions. We work a lot of hours.

I usually start at 730 am, in the office. My brother gets his crew out the door by 730, he unlocks the house to the bath remodel for which ever sub or employee is working there on his way go his remodel. I go to the addition usually at 10, until lunch, then the bath remodel. For the most part I get the subs to accomadate my schedule, unless it really puts them in a bind. After the bath remodel, I pick up any materials needed for either job for the next day. Then usually a networking thing, like a mixer or ribbon cutting or a commitee meeting. Then go home and play with my kid and eat. Then make lists for the next day and work on estimates or scopes while fing around on here. Saturday and sometimes Sunday I play catch up.

Everyday is different, but being organized and staying two weeks out helps tremendously.

On remodels someone has to unlock and lock up everyday, as well as make sure all water and electric is working (if someone lives there, most of our work is done on second homes) 

The plan is to train my brother to be a kick ass superintendent and his second as a lead, so we can lighten our load.

All this is if we are busy, this winter I might be building a deck alone, and be happy to have the work. All about networking and marketing.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> We usually run two good size projects, 3 right now and one or two smaller jobs. Right now 2 additions, one whole house renovation, and a bath remodel. We are also bidding a lot of work, so being on the job all day every day is impossible. My brother is our lead carpenter, he is also a he'll of a cabinet finisher and painter, and he is a big help. In a few years he will have a lot more responsibility with his ever increasing job knowledge.
> 
> I am running the bath remodel and one addition, my old man is running the whole house reno( 70% complete) and is overseeing the foundation and frame of the other addition. By that time, I will be almost out of my other addition and my brother will run the finishing stages for the most part, under my direction. He is at the whole house reno full rime right now.
> 
> ...


I've worked for GCs that do it both ways. IMO it goes alot smoother when the GC or someone who can make decisions on his behalf is on site during the day. Nothing like getting to work and no power/ water/ another trade is in your way ect.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> I've worked for GCs that do it both ways. IMO it goes alot smoother when the GC or someone who can make decisions on his behalf is on site during the day. Nothing like getting to work and no power/ water/ another trade is in your way ect.


Shouldn't happen with a competent builder. Scheduling properly is extremely important. This week all my MEPs were done in my addition. I was on site 30 + hours. Checking layouts, answering questions, trouble shooting. When it is critical to be there we are. Foundation, I stake it and ho over it with my sub. He builds the forms and does his grade work. I check it. Then my plumber, after I lay it out for him, he goes to work. I check it, while he is there. I inspect the grid, then out in electrical conduit. I check everything one more time, inspection( scheduled well in advance, then pour. I'm ALWAYS onsite when they pour. After it cures, I lay out with the framer, I check and answer questions every day. I do a cut list for him when I make a material list. 

Some trades I need TO be there a lot, some I just need to lay it out, answer questions and check their work. MEPs, lots of on site time. Drywall, trim, no. Roof, yes.

Sometimes I take my laptop to the site and do my admin in my truck. A trick I learned from the old man.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> Shouldn't happen with a competent builder. Scheduling properly is extremely important. This week all my MEPs were done in my addition. I was on site 30 + hours. Checking layouts, answering questions, trouble shooting. When it is critical to be there we are. Foundation, I stake it and ho over it with my sub. He builds the forms and does his grade work. I check it. Then my plumber, after I lay it out for him, he goes to work. I check it, while he is there. I inspect the grid, then out in electrical conduit. I check everything one more time, inspection( scheduled well in advance, then pour. I'm ALWAYS onsite when they pour. After it cures, I lay out with the framer, I check and answer questions every day. I do a cut list for him when I make a material list.
> 
> Some trades I need TO be there a lot, some I just need to lay it out, answer questions and check their work. MEPs, lots of on site time. Drywall, trim, no. Roof, yes.
> 
> Sometimes I take my laptop to the site and do my admin in my truck. A trick I learned from the old man.


I wish I could have had the pleasure of working for a GC that thought like that more often.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

from a subs point of veiw scheduling and access to a decision maker is critical. It really sucks if I show up to paint and the finisher decided to touch up and theres wet mud everywhere. Or I'm supposed to be spraying ceilings and trim and the electrician or plumber is there. Yeah I can spray..No it won't make me any friends...lol


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Nice series of posts jawtrs! That's how it gets done...:thumbsup:

My company delegates a bit more, but we have higher OH and a more experienced crew. Your position is what I know as Project Manager. 

Back to the OP....who's going to be the decision maker and keep projects flowing. Someone within the business needs to know the ins and outs of all the trades. You don't need to know it all, but you need to know enough to keep work on schedule and stay efficient.

It's also not something you learn from a book...


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Jawtrs,

Lot's of good information in your recent posts. Thank you. I'll give you a little background on me....

Starting at 14, I built cabinets and ran trim for about 6 years or so for a friend. Learned enough to get pretty good their. I'd love to be able to self perform this area of work....but, my good friend is still in business. He will get all of my work anyway. I digress....

After that, I worked for a Commercial Electrical contractor for a little over a year to learn that aspect of the business. I learned to do take-offs, look at the arch drawings to determine drop lengths, to add 4' at the panel to wrap and terminate, and basically learned enough to get me into trouble. 

After that, 6 years for commercial general contractors (2 different - Small side and the largest you can work with...but no names...never know who is watching...lol). Some time in superintendent role, some time in engineering, and the last few years in project management. 

I also finished out my basement, renovated my kitchen, enclosed my porch and extended it, Installed a new panel, etc...the list goes on and is apparently never ending. I've got good all around experience. I've also found that I can pretty much do anything if I put my mind to it...besides keep the wife happy at all times. Let me know if anyone figures that part out. 

I also plan to do most of my own demo at first. At least until I can train someone to do this work with my companies best interest in mind (not destroy work that won't be touched...it happens). But for now, I'm trying to keep overhead at a minimum. You said it right, lower overhead means higher margins for my company. I'm also probably going to install all of my pre-hung doors. Anything I think I can start and complete within one day and not hold anyone up. 

My overall goal is to build a profitable company. The real goal is 50k in the bank by the turn of the year. This is the company's account, not mine. It would be great to have both, but, unrealistic to think it will happen. 

I'm probably forgetting some questions you have, but, I hope I answered a few. Thanks again for the info. Sounds like what I want to do is what you already have established. 

As for time on a jobsite, my plan is for no more than 2 projects at the same time. First half of day (till about 2 or 3) will be spent on jobsite. The last half of the day would be networking and admin. However, it really just depends on what is going on. I am getting a wireless card so I can do much of that in my truck at first. I'm also toting a small printer I have just in case.....you never know.

I really wish I already had a good drywall finisher and painter in my bag already. I hope I can find that subcontractor and he will do both. That would decrease the issues I would have with having to re-finish a section of wall because of sloppy finishing. In commercial we would lessen this by writing in the contract to the painter "once you put paint on a wall, you have accepted the finish." Meaning, if there is an issue with the quality of the finish, it is their responsibility to fix. We don't really enforce that though. Don't ask, I'm not sure why they even write it in the contract.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

WNYcarpenter said:


> Nice series of posts jawtrs! That's how it gets done...:thumbsup:
> 
> My company delegates a bit more, but we have higher OH and a more experienced crew. Your position is what I know as Project Manager.
> 
> ...


I'm a one man show. So all of that responsibility is on my shoulders. I know just enough to get myself into trouble. I also know a good bit about the MEP trades. 

The biggest problem I see moving forward is 2 things; finding the work and scheduling. With scheduling, a subcontractor will tell me 7 days to complete...we both know it takes 10. I see this as a constant battle I will be fighting. That is going to one of the biggest things that will determine whether I do work with a particular sub in the future...were they on time? It's my job to make sure that no one holds them up or delays their start. After that, they need to get done as quickly as they promised, no matter how many people they need to bring in and catch up. 

In residential we don't really deal with liquidated damages. Any tricks anyone has learned to keep subcontractors on time? Staying on top of them is understood, but, do you put anything in the contract? I was thinking about liquidated damages if they don't finish on time. However, you have to also offer an incentive to complete early if you talk about liquidated damages...it's only fair. You finish early, you get a bonus, you finish late, you are getting a reduction. I personally see too many flaws with this system...


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Commercial construction and residential are two different animals. If you try to treat one like the other you will have a real mess.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> Commercial construction and residential are two different animals. If you try to treat one like the other you will have a real mess.



In general, I do better when speaking specifics. What are you referring to here? Liquidated damages? If so, I said the same thing. I don't think it would work. If you have any comments on what you do to ensure subcontractors finish on time, I'd like to here it.

You will see from my initial post that I already understand there are differences between residential and commercial. I'm interested from hearing from those that can or have done both, and know some helpful information that could be of use. There has been a lot of that do far, so keep them coming. 

Thanks for everyone's responses so far.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

oaks renovation said:


> I could not disagree more if I was yelling it from a roof top. My clientele keep coming to me because I am not an absentee contractor. My reputation is for my level of attention to detail and conscientious nature your not gonna get that by chance or a residual effect of wearing a shirt with a starched collar . People don't really want people in their lives that are swinging by the job on their way home from swinging a golf club to collect a check.


 While there are many GCs who are really just paper contractors, and dont put in the proper amount of oversight and planning, many arent like this. 

Every job is different and requires different amounts of my time. The main thing is to plan very well, schedule well, and most important train your crews, leads and subs properly.


While i am not a paper contractor, i will debate your previous post.


From your post, I take it to mean you believe your jobs are better or more efficiently run. I dont know your operation, but i know mine. Every one of our past clients is a source of referals for us. Attention to detail is certainly not a weakness. I just personally dont plan to build one project at a time and end up old before my time. I in no way think im to good for work, i often still do work, and miss it when i dont.

Chris Wright is a Big 50 Remodeler, and by all accounts is a superb remodeler. While I know he DID wear nail bags every day, I somehow doubt he has time to now. 

My ex boss is a superb remodeler, and he has never worn nail bags. he has been in business for 27 years, and has made himself rich. Even in these times e has a beatiful office, 4 people working in the office, including a designer and a selections manager. He has kick ass PMs and Superintendents. Point being, how do you believe his customer service and attention to detail is suffering? Or mine? 


It wasnt hard for me to see being a carpenter forever wasnt going to pay me what i wanted. It was a personal choice, and i still have the nai bags and the knowledge to make my living with them.

BTW, I dont play golf. LOL


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

Jawtrs,

Your business model is the hardest concept for most small contractors to grasp and is the very reason why the overall majority never make enough money, they make some, but never enough where they can actually cruise along with solid cash flow. 
They believe if "I'm" not doing the work it's not good enough, when the very fact of the matter is there are guys out there (employees) who care just as much about detail and work just as hard if not harder, actually they work harder. 

It took me time to figure that all out, but it finally sunk in once I started taking on larger projects. As a matter of fact I thought I knew it all until I broke out of that shell. There's nothing like standing back watching other pros do the work and do it just as good if not better than you.

Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being hands on. I'm still hands on and love it, but it's my choice. I've built a great circle of trade relationships where I can layout the work and walk away for the day. Some guys love staying small, working one project at a time and being exclusively hands on. And I pretty much fit that model for the most part, but I've also have worked three fairly major projects at a time with absolutely no problems and the quality, attention to detail, and client expectations were always second to none.

That's why it's critical for a small company to sub out work and build trade relationships. Building this arsenal will enable you to work like a gentleman when the bones start creaking. Besides, it's smart to have the flexibility


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## oaks renovation (Jun 16, 2007)

jawtrs said:


> While there are many GCs who are really just paper contractors, and dont put in the proper amount of oversight and planning, many arent like this.
> 
> Every job is different and requires different amounts of my time. The main thing is to plan very well, schedule well, and most important train your crews, leads and subs properly.
> 
> ...


I was really throwing a jab at the OP. I don't know your operation either but from what I have read of your posts you really have your ducks in a row and are what I aspire to acheive someday. I have a narrow view of the contracting world because I have been in business for going on 6 yrs and have built it up on my own with no help from any body. I envy the fact that you have your family to rely on If I had that luxury I think I would be light years ahead of where I am now. I am proud of what I have acheived and did not mean to come across as an a$$. I totally see your point of having the bags on you can only take it so far. One big project at a time is all I can handle right now with a couple of small things thrown in to pad the books.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

rdr8887

Scheduling and nailing down a sub's time to complete is a challenge. We all know nothing in the field is as clear cut as it is on paper. 7 days can turn into 10 and even 20. It's not always the sub's fault. Delays are often caused by poor detail decisions in the different phases that affect the progress and efficiency of the next phase (it happens on a daily basis). You can't hold someone responsible for taking too long when they're dealing with the previous mistakes or lack of information/communication?

Unless we communicate effectively, schedules suffer. The trick to keeping subs working are: timely pay, having the project ready with all the needed information, prompt answers/solutions, and good communication. That takes a good PM or lead making the right decisions in the field.

I have no idea what your skill level and knowledge is about residential construction, so don't be offended! There are people who are great at running a job but not a business and vice versa. There's going to be a learning curve for everyone with a new GC and new subs.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

I see what you are saying here. But I would consider lack of communication my fault and not their responsibility. But if the job is going smoothly, there should be a mechanism in place to keep them interested in finishing on time. However, I guess when they go over and miss a pay draw once, they are not going to make that mistake again.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

oaks renovation said:


> I was really throwing a jab at the OP. I don't know your operation either but from what I have read of your posts you really have your ducks in a row and are what I aspire to acheive someday. I have a narrow view of the contracting world because I have been in business for going on 6 yrs and have built it up on my own with no help from any body. I envy the fact that you have your family to rely on If I had that luxury I think I would be light years ahead of where I am now. I am proud of what I have acheived and did not mean to come across as an a$$. I totally see your point of having the bags on you can only take it so far. One big project at a time is all I can handle right now with a couple of small things thrown in to pad the books.


 The old man is a blessing.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

rdr8887 said:


> I see what you are saying here. But I would consider lack of communication my fault and not their responsibility. But if the job is going smoothly, there should be a mechanism in place to keep them interested in finishing on time. However, I guess when they go over and miss a pay draw once, they are not going to make that mistake again.


IMO, this is how you discern the subs that work for you....Some businesses are organized and some are not. The best subs are busy, and hard to schedule and are generally more expensive. Loose the idea that you can manipulate them with money games. 

It really comes down to respect and how professionally you handle the relationship.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> In general, I do better when speaking specifics. What are you referring to here? Liquidated damages? If so, I said the same thing. I don't think it would work. If you have any comments on what you do to ensure subcontractors finish on time, I'd like to here it.
> 
> You will see from my initial post that I already understand there are differences between residential and commercial. I'm interested from hearing from those that can or have done both, and know some helpful information that could be of use. There has been a lot of that do far, so keep them coming.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's responses so far.


I really don't have any specifics. Like you I was speaking in general. From my point of view(as a sub) if you take all of your posts together I get a feeling you really don't get the difference between the two(commercial & Residential). You just don't do things the way you seem to want to do them. My 2 cents


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> I really don't have any specifics. Like you I was speaking in general. From my point of view(as a sub) if you take all of your posts together I get a feeling you really don't get the difference between the two(commercial & Residential). You just don't do things the way you seem to want to do them. My 2 cents


Your right. I don't. Can you tell me so I know? Or is it proprietary?


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> Your right. I don't. Can you tell me so I know? Or is it proprietary?


It's not proprietary and no I can't. Sorry I don't have the skills some on here have as far as being able to explain things clearly. However If you will keep an open mind and keep asking questions you may be able to get it on your own. Best of luck.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Commercial deadlines are crucial and subs are used to hitting deadlines. Residential many are more lax. Also as said above, your consumers are more ignorant of what you do and what to expect. Commercial not so much.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I wish as much luck as I can, as long as you take care of your hands and your subs.

I am concerned forvyour lack of residential experience, one reno on your own home is not sufficient in my opinion, but many good builders started out with less.

It is crazy to me someone can become a GC without taking a test or providing experience, but many of their subs are liscenced.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> I wish as much luck as I can, as long as you take care of your hands and your subs.
> 
> I am concerned forvyour lack of residential experience, one reno on your own home is not sufficient in my opinion, but many good builders started out with less.
> 
> It is crazy to me someone can become a GC without taking a test or providing experience, but many of their subs are liscenced.


In Ga. you do have to prove experience to get a GC Lic.. RDR is not a Licensed Georgia GC if I remember correctly. But is working towards getting a license I think.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

jawtrs said:


> I wish as much luck as I can, as long as you take care of your hands and your subs.
> 
> I am concerned forvyour lack of residential experience, one reno on your own home is not sufficient in my opinion, but many good builders started out with less.
> 
> It is crazy to me someone can become a GC without taking a test or providing experience, but many of their subs are liscenced.


You can't be a gc without a test or experience in Georgia. And I have built 3 elementary schools, one hotel, one pharmaceutical manufacturing facility, and one 13 story office building. You'd like to think I have a good bit of experience building in general. I've seen a lot. But, you are right. Residential is a different beast. Same with a remodel.

I honestly don't think this will be any harder than what I've done already. What we do anybody can learn. The fact that I was required to go to school to do this is a joke in my opinion. However, I did lean how to design form work and do structural analysis. But ask me if I'm willing to take a risk and do that on or of my jobs...lol.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> In Ga. you do have to prove experience to be a GC Lic.. RDR is not a Licenesed Georgia GC if I remember correctly. But is working towards getting a license I think.


This is correct. If I could only get my CPA to pick up the pace a little and finish my incorporation....I've never been in such a hurry to spend 2 grand.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> This is correct. If I could only get my CPA to pick up the pace a little and finish my incorporation....I've never been in such a hurry to spend 2 grand.


2 grand to incorporate is crazy. I spent 600 for a CPA found out later it can be done for 2 or 3 hundred and you can do it yourself. Just curious but what does being incorporated have to do with getting a License?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> 2 grand to incorporate is crazy. I spent 600 for a CPA found out later it can be done for 2 or 3 hundred and you can do it yourself. Just curious but what does being incorporated have to do with getting a License?


Actually its really an llc and it is about the same as you said for cost. Once that is done, I can buy a gl policy in the name of my company and buy a surety bond. Then I can apply for licensure and take the exam. Have to come out of pocket about 4 grand total (with buying books I need) before I can even think of taking the exam.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> Actually its really an llc and it is about the same as you said for cost. Once that is done, I can buy a gl policy in the name of my company and buy a surety bond. Then I can apply for licensure and take the exam. Have to come out of pocket about 4 grand total (with buying books I need) before I can even think of taking the exam.


I haven't checked on the License requirements for awhile now. The way I understand it the Lic. goes with the person not the company. So I still don't understand going through the expenses you are. Probably some people here from Ga. that would know.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

This may be off the wall...say you're a district manager for large chain of restaurants..... Outback Steak House. You understand the menu, procedures, and how a company should run and are damn good at it. Suppliers are begging for your business.

That is a whole different Model than running a local establishment! Now you have to cook, clean, decorate, advertise, and build a reputation.

No one is saying you don't have the skills to make the transition. Your experience surely puts you in a good position business wise, but it's a different animal and there are too many variables to be as specific as you would like.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> I haven't checked on the License requirements for awhile now. The way I understand it the Lic. goes with the person not the company. So I still don't understand going through the expenses you are. Probably some people here from Ga. that would know.



You can, but I'm doing the exam as an agent of my company. Either way you still have to meet the requirements. 

LLC: 500
GL policy: 1800
Workers Comp: 950. Not needed, but I'm afraid a client might insist since Rey dot know any better. 
Surety Bond for 25k: 280
License fee: 200
Crash course: 500
Books for exam (it's open book): about 750. 
Passing on first try: priceless.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

WNYcarpenter said:


> This may be off the wall...say you're a district manager for large chain of restaurants..... Outback Steak House. You understand the menu, procedures, and how a company should run and are damn good at it. Suppliers are begging for your business.
> 
> That is a whole different Model than running a local establishment! Now you have to cook, clean, decorate, advertise, and build a reputation.
> 
> No one is saying you don't have the skills to make the transition. Your experience surely puts you in a good position business wise, but it's a different animal and there are too many variables to be as specific as you would like.


That's true, but I think your view of commercial is a little off. For example, the last job I was on, I was responsible for floors 1-4. I was in the field 8 hours a day coordinating trades, answering questions, and monitoring safety. Then I'd get to sit in the office and do paperwork for another few hours. 

Construction is a construction for the most part. The only real difference is the value of the contracts. One is built with sticks, the other is with metal studs. They both come together from the ground up.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> You can, but I'm doing the exam as an agent of my company. Either way you still have to meet the requirements.
> 
> LLC: 500
> GL policy: 1800
> ...


 Open book???


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> You can, but I'm doing the exam as an agent of my company. Either way you still have to meet the requirements.
> 
> LLC: 500
> GL policy: 1800
> ...


Priceless...I like that...I would shop your prices. I know they are different for different trades But my GL is half that for 2 mil Policy. 1 mil per occurance. for less than 100/mo. I would keep the comp. I carry it and don't need it either. Maybe after you pass the test you might want to sell the books for say...Half price?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> That's true, but I think your view of commercial is a little off. For example, the last job I was on, I was responsible for floors 1-4. I was in the field 8 hours a day coordinating trades, answering questions, and monitoring safety. Then I'd get to sit in the office and do paperwork for another few hours.
> 
> Construction is a construction for the most part. The only real difference is the value of the contracts. One is built with sticks, the other is with metal studs. They both come together from the ground up.


 As long as you are determined and choose good subs I'm sure you'll be fine, with your experience. You were the HMFIC on the projects you listed above?


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> Open book???


Better than no Licensing at all...


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> That's true, but I think your view of commercial is a little off. For example, the last job I was on, I was responsible for floors 1-4. I was in the field 8 hours a day coordinating trades, answering questions, and monitoring safety. Then I'd get to sit in the office and do paperwork for another few hours.
> 
> Construction is a construction for the most part. The only real difference is the value of the contracts. One is built with sticks, the other is with metal studs. They both come together from the ground up.


Just curious..Which License are you going for?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

summithomeinc said:


> Better than no Licensing at all...


 No:no::no:

If its that easy the hacks still get a liscence, your costs go up and the GD government gets all the money, and guess what, the cost font ever go down, just higher and higher. More BS to deal with. Thanks but ill compete with hacks for free. I took a portion of state licenseing test , I believe from California. It was a joke.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

jawtrs said:


> No:no::no:
> 
> If its that easy the hacks still get a liscence, your costs go up and the GD government gets all the money, and guess what, the cost font ever go down, just higher and higher. More BS to deal with. Thanks but ill compete with hacks for free. I took a portion of state licenseing test , I believe from California. It was a joke.


I don't know if it's open book or not.. Guess it is. However the part that goes along with that is the I think 2-4 years experience under a licensed GC and I think 2 projects in the last 2 years under your supervision. Like I said earlier been awhile since I looked it up. It also depends on the type of license you apply for. They have caps on the type of work and dollar amount. I think the experience part is what I would think is most important. One of the best framers I know can barely write but can tell you everything on a framing square and what it does.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

jawtrs said:


> No:no::no:
> 
> If its that easy the hacks still get a liscence, your costs go up and the GD government gets all the money, and guess what, the cost font ever go down, just higher and higher. More BS to deal with. Thanks but ill compete with hacks for free. I took a portion of state licenseing test , I believe from California. It was a joke.


Ga is one of the toughest tests out there. I think the only tougher js florida from what ive read. I always hated open book in school too. You never have enough time to look up every answer. If you don't know it your going to have a bad day.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> Priceless...I like that...I would shop your prices. I know they are different for different trades But my GL is half that for 2 mil Policy. 1 mil per occurance. for less than 100/mo. I would keep the comp. I carry it and don't need it either. Maybe after you pass the test you might want to sell the books for say...Half price?


Since its a startup and we will do roofing, it's pretty high. That's only 300k too. The 1 mil policy I will buy after license is obtained isn't much more though. I actually just got a better quote in my email for 1400. That's best price out of 5. 

I'm going to hit Craigslist for the books. Might keep them though. Can't have too much in your library.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> Ga is one of the toughest tests out there. I think the only tougher js florida from what ive read. I always hated open book in school too. You never have enough time to look up every answer. If you don't know it your going to have a bad day.


 How much enforcement by state towards unlicensed builders?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

jawtrs said:


> As long as you are determined and choose good subs I'm sure you'll be fine, with your experience. You were the HMFIC on the projects you listed above?


Not sure what that stands for, but, I guess it means something about being in charge. Depends on which one. The elementary schools I was an assistant pm. The pharma project I was a super. On the office building, I was a super and an engineer.

With the company I just left, I would have been a few more years to reach pm. A PM has to be able to completely control a $50+ million job while managing more than 6 employees successfully. Those are tough shoes to fill and I still had a lot to learn.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> Just curious..Which License are you going for?


I want residential basic and light commercial. They by this time next year I want the commercial limited teir so I can chase commercial work as well.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

jawtrs said:


> How much enforcement by state towards unlicensed builders?


I'm not sure exactly. But I know they are going to start cracking down on those that still operate without a license. But I'm not sure how they would catch you unless you didn't have a permit. But you could get your subs to pull all permits...do not sure how they really know I guess


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Comm to resi, simple as pie.

Gotcha. Thank you!!!


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

They are active enforcing the licenses. I've had the opportunity to speak with them about who needs a license and who doesn't.


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