# Best Method for Small Patch



## DemRem (Apr 21, 2012)

I typically only do patch work. Recently I had a few small jobs and it got me thinking what is the best method for a small patch.

I think the main factor I have problems with is *drying time*. 

I've been using 20 for patches but find I'm still standing around waiting for it to dry. The problem seems worse when I have a large gap to fill or using paper tape (meaning that I think it's a good idea to let paper completely completely dry before re-coating which takes more time). But I don't really like fiberglass tape because of frays and the fact that it takes a thicker top coat and shows so easily if you sand too far.


----------



## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Ever used the 5-minute hot mud.

I never have, it scares me.


----------



## DemRem (Apr 21, 2012)

I think pre-mixed usually leaves a much better finish coat but again it has to dry overnight. I'd like to be able to do a patch without making two trips but maybe I should just count on two trips. 

*What about using 5 instead of 20?* Also, keep in mind that a patch is fresh drywall to painted surface and I've heard paint causes pin-holes for whatever reason? I personally haven't noticed it too much but obviously a painted surface is a much different surface than a drywall sheet.


----------



## DemRem (Apr 21, 2012)

A.T.C. said:


> Ever used the 5-minute hot mud.
> 
> I never have, it scares me.


Never so I don't even know what it's like, but I can imagine it would really mess up your adhesion if it skins over too quick


----------



## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Install a blow out patch

Mix your 20 with warm water and use a heat gun to accelerate drying time. 

Scrap excess mud, 2nd coat of 20. Same steps as before

Sand, 3rd coat

Sand, clean, paint, leave.

Should be 3-4 hours at MOST. If you only have one patch mix your mud a little tighter. 

As for painted surfaces causing air holes. Sand the surrounding surface first. For a semi or high gloss you may have to skim the area first.


----------



## DemRem (Apr 21, 2012)

Mud Master said:


> Install a blow out patch
> 
> Mix your 20 with warm water and use a heat gun to accelerate drying time.
> 
> ...


I should have said by small that I meant like 2-4' square so blowout patch wouldn't work and also kind of tedious to use a heat gun on a 3' seam but still doable I suppose. I do think your heat gun and blowout patch method would be perfect for a door knob hole and things like that.


----------



## Santa's Helpers (Jun 12, 2009)

we do these patches all the time. If it is a large area, use 20 for the first coat. Dry with a heat gun and repeat with 5. Our HD carries 5 min mud. As said before. We can do a 3' x 3' repair in 3-5 hours including texture and paint. We use the oil based rattle can for orange peel or knockdown.
Popcorn we spray with a hopper and may have to make a second trip to paint the following day.

Comcast is a repeat customer. Lots of ceilings that get stepped on or holes that miss the top plate and come through the wall


----------



## kambrooks (Apr 24, 2012)

DemRem said:


> I should have said by small that I meant like 2-4' square so blowout patch wouldn't work and also kind of tedious to use a heat gun on a 3' seam but still doable I suppose. I do think your heat gun and blowout patch method would be perfect for a door knob hole and things like that.



I run a $30 space heater


----------



## DemRem (Apr 21, 2012)

Santa's Helpers said:


> we do these patches all the time. If it is a large area, use 20 for the first coat. Dry with a heat gun and repeat with 5. Our HD carries 5 min mud. As said before. We can do a 3' x 3' repair in 3-5 hours including texture and paint. We use the oil based rattle can for orange peel or knockdown.
> Popcorn we spray with a hopper and may have to make a second trip to paint the following day.
> 
> Comcast is a repeat customer. Lots of ceilings that get stepped on or holes that miss the top plate and come through the wall


Just curious do you use the 20 first because you figure the 1st coat takes the longest and the 5 can be used on the 2nd coat

I think I'm closer to the 5hr mark and maybe another 45 to paint

It seems like quite a few drywallers on here aren't too fond of the 5 min mud but Im not sure why...maybe someone can elaborate. The only thing I can think of is the high risk of it skinning over too quickly


----------



## DemRem (Apr 21, 2012)

kambrooks said:


> I run a $30 space heater


I did that on a job this week but sometimes it's hard to position them right...I figured a heat gun would be too tedious for a larger patch but it sounds like a lot of people are using them so I'll give mine a try


----------



## Red Adobe (Jul 26, 2008)

if you mix 5 min and 20 do you get 12 n1/2?

An old guy taught me to cut out a square say 6" x6' put a couple 1/4s in the wall then score the back of the new rock 6x6 and the paper side 10x10 and break from the back and peel leaving the white paper.
Apply a thin layer around patch screw in the new and then float. (this is easier then taping a patch and only a thin coat is needed to blend in, stick a fan on it for 20 mins then texture, another 20 and paint.

6" hole saws work real nice as well, cut the bad out and back of rock then paper side to a square


----------



## kambrooks (Apr 24, 2012)

DemRem said:


> I did that on a job this week but sometimes it's hard to position them right...I figured a heat gun would be too tedious for a larger patch but it sounds like a lot of people are using them so I'll give mine a try


A gun and an oscillating tower... Works great. I don't do many patches anymore but it was great when I did


----------



## kambrooks (Apr 24, 2012)

Red Adobe said:


> if you mix 5 min and 20 do you get 12 n1/2?
> 
> An old guy taught me to cut out a square say 6" x6' put a couple 1/4s in the wall then score the back of the new rock 6x6 and the paper side 10x10 and break from the back and peel leaving the white paper.
> Apply a thin layer around patch screw in the new and then float. (this is easier then taping a patch and only a thin coat is needed to blend in, stick a fan on it for 20 mins then texture, another 20 and paint.
> ...


Ferguson recommends that in his books. I liked the idea, never tried it


----------



## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I'll second or third or whatever the heat gun. It works great.
I've done the scored drywall patch as well but find that the paper is too thick for my liking. 
Lined notebook paper is nice and thin, you just have to be careful not too over work it.
H*ll news paper in a pinch.:thumbsup:


----------



## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

I cut blow out patch's for small holes . Then use fast setting compounds . My two cents .


----------



## FineLineBill (Feb 5, 2013)

mix your 20 with a paddle or your wifes egg beater in your cordless, the heat created by using a power tool will help the mud set fast, but not too fast, two coats of that followed by a top coat of premixed and a heat gun will get it. An old timer showed me a trick for eliminating air bubbles...add a little liquid dish soap and mix well, makes a nice creamy skimming mud that doesnt leave any air bubbles.


----------



## profinish (Oct 7, 2005)

Wow 5 at HD?
Not around here and the paint stores will rape you!! LOL
Was looking over reciepts awhile back SW Dinged me $22 For a bag of 5
Brought it up they made it right but im just sayin..
I had bought like 40 gals of paint at same time so I didnt catch it till later. Ive never found 5 at HD or Lowes

Anyway a patch is a patch, takes time somtimes, mix a little tighter use your heat gun..


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

DemRem said:


> I typically only do patch work. Recently I had a few small jobs and it got me thinking what is the best method for a small patch.
> 
> I think the main factor I have problems with is *drying time*.
> 
> I've been using 20 for patches but find I'm still standing around waiting for it to dry. The problem seems worse when I have a large gap to fill or using paper tape (meaning that I think it's a good idea to let paper completely completely dry before re-coating which takes more time). But I don't really like fiberglass tape because of frays and the fact that it takes a thicker top coat and shows so easily if you sand too far.


Sorry, but....................20 and paper..............mesh and frays..............sanding??????

Eliminate those three problems and you will be a happy camper

Also, High velocity fans will make your twenty dry in twenty.


----------



## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

mud master said:


> install a blow out patch
> 
> mix your 20 with warm water and use a heat gun to accelerate drying time.
> 
> ...


same for me but i dond sand it and i like to fuse it not tape it


----------



## Henn Drywall (Dec 17, 2012)

Red Adobe said:


> if you mix 5 min and 20 do you get 12 n1/2?
> 
> An old guy taught me to cut out a square say 6" x6' put a couple 1/4s in the wall then score the back of the new rock 6x6 and the paper side 10x10 and break from the back and peel leaving the white paper.
> Apply a thin layer around patch screw in the new and then float. (this is easier then taping a patch and only a thin coat is needed to blend in, stick a fan on it for 20 mins then texture, another 20 and paint.
> ...


It's called a Cali patch.......it works good for patchwork. Did about 500 of them on the job im at now.


----------



## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

Like this one


----------



## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Snobnd said:


> Like this one




Around here thats called a hillbilly patch


----------



## underwoodhi (Feb 14, 2013)

I've always called them hot patches. Like has been stated the paper is pretty thick but it works well enough for a small patch. Larger patches I tape with 20 and finish with 5. Going to have to jump on the heat gun wagon, have not tried that!


----------



## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Top hat/blow out patch. 5 & 20 min mud. Straight flex also makes a 6" & 12" patch tape.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Snobnd said:


> Like this one


That looks like a text book california patch. I invented that.. :laughing:


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

The last time I did that kind of patch was about fifteen yrs ago. 

It's all part of the learning curve of drywall.

Go for it.


----------



## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

We call it a doorknob patch, since it is the best way to to a fast patch, I cake mud on the sides of the patch - let it set up and tape it to a smoth finnish.

No need for backer board.


----------



## Polarisxcho (Feb 10, 2009)

My trick for patching with hot mud. 
Get some plaster accelerator. Around here i can still get it at HD. Mix up a slurry of the accelerator and water in a paper coffee cup with your margin trowel. The slurry will not set.

Mix up a bag of regular durabond 45 or 90.

Take a hawkful of mud. Mix in a little of the accelerator slurry into the mud on the hawk. Once you get the mix right, the mud will set up as soon as you get it off the hawk.

Repeat with each hawkful of mud. 

This way you reduce the waste of mud that sets before you can get it on the wall or the hassle of having the mix setting up in your mixing equipment before you get a chance to wash out.

This also greatly reduces the amount of times you need to mix. I would rather mix one full bucket than a bunch of small batches.

Before the top coat I would dry the patch with a light, hair dryer, etc to avoid the dreaded pin hole bubbles.


----------



## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

dirty water is all you need ...this post is nuts :blink:


----------



## ryanman95 (Feb 27, 2013)

If you're not sure about hot mud, 20 minute set, try 45. Still TONS faster than pre-mix. get comfortable with that before you try 20.


----------



## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

A.T.C. said:


> Ever used the 5-minute hot mud.
> 
> I never have, it scares me.


You are not alone, there...


----------



## A-1 Interiors (Oct 12, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> That looks like a text book california patch. I invented that.. :laughing:


wow i did too go figure :thumbsup:


----------



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

Polarisxcho said:


> My trick for patching with hot mud.
> Get some plaster accelerator. Around here i can still get it at HD. Mix up a slurry of the accelerator and water in a paper coffee cup with your margin trowel. The slurry will not set.
> 
> Mix up a bag of regular durabond 45 or 90.
> ...


Geez finally someone who gets it. 
this is what I have been doing for years since a really great drywall guy taught me how it works. the only difference is I use Aluminum Sulphate which is the same thing as the accelerator, that you buy but at the drywall store but about 1/10th the cost at the garden supply store. 
Mix one batch add accelerator to small quantities and go at it.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Abracadabra...................Poof!


----------



## Greg from K/W (Jan 28, 2010)

Red Adobe said:


> if you mix 5 min and 20 do you get 12 n1/2?
> 
> An old guy taught me to cut out a square say 6" x6' put a couple 1/4s in the wall then score the back of the new rock 6x6 and the paper side 10x10 and break from the back and peel leaving the white paper.
> Apply a thin layer around patch screw in the new and then float. (this is easier then taping a patch and only a thin coat is needed to blend in, stick a fan on it for 20 mins then texture, another 20 and paint.
> ...


I do this with small patches 6 inches X 6 inches

It works great no need for backer and keeps the patch from being built up with thick layers of tape around the edge.


----------



## Greg from K/W (Jan 28, 2010)

Snobnd said:


> Like this one


Thats what I do too. Works great and is fast. I am not nuts enough to use 5 min hot mud Sheet rock 20 does me fine. Easy to sand and if its too slow I pull out my wife's hair dryer i stole from her a few years back. Speeds it up just fine.


----------



## Greg from K/W (Jan 28, 2010)

Another way to make a nice patch is to cut the hole in the drywall square cut the inside edge of it on a 45 degree. Then make your patch to match the same size and cut the edges to match the angle of the hole. Fill the edges of the hole with sheet rock 20 and the edges of the patch and mate them. They should fit snug and even with the surface of the drywall. No tape needed skim over and finish.


----------



## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

My HD now carries those alum. patches in 4x4 6x6 and 8x8. They are thin pieces of alum. covered with thin mesh tape. they are sticky on one side so just stick them over the hole and mud. Really don't work bad.


----------

