# What options are there for low skilled labourers.



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

BucketofSteam said:


> Would you happen to know of any resources that I can read up on to learn the theory? I'm not going to count on getting the work but if I can at least understand the theory I'm in a better situation than what I was.


You can actually pick up on most of that here if you search for threads on the topic. Youtube can be helpful but anyone can post a video so you might be learning the wrong technique.

Just remember not to half-ass two things, it's better to whole-ass one thing. Pick a skill to learn and work on it whenever you are caught up on the labor and then work on another one. If your company is moving quickly through the project then you will only have a little while to work on any one skill. Start by watching the other guys do it a bit and asking questions then, on the next project, ask if you can try with them watching.

It's going to take you dozens of hours of mixing thinset to be able to get exactly the right consistency every time. And there are a bunch of different thinsets so add even more hours for that.


----------



## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I remember back in the day when a guy started out as a laborer, then took a pay cut to become an apprentice. Why?

I've had guys as laborers who would clean the tools before I told them to and would break their asses. I gave a guy a $3/hour raise during his first day on the job once. 

OK, those were the only two good employees I had, but it's best to keep a positive note.


----------



## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

Eaglei said:


> You mention that your 25 yrs. old . What did you do from when you graduated high school until now ? Maybe i'm wrong but it looks as if you got a late start or started late . I had an offer to work in a shop right out of H.S. so when I was sweeping floors and cleaning the shop at 18 I knew it would take time to move up . By the time I was 25 I was well on my way and was super motivated to keep on learning and would always look to work with the older carpenters , they had more patience to teach me the tricks of the trade . What i'm trying to help you understand is that you got a late start and just because your 25 you still need to start at the bottom and learn all you can before you move on up .
> 
> It may not be easy to find someone willing to teach you and pay you at the same time but stay motivated , there out there .If your current boss is'nt willing then look elsewhere . Nothing is better then on the job experience so dont put to much thought into thinking that you need to go to trade school . It may take several jobs before you find the right fit . Don't give up , your still young . Good luck!!!


Between the ages of 18-24 I was using quite a bit. I finally came to my senses when I turned 24 and decided that I wanted to do something. 

I'm patience enough that I will wait and learn what I can, but when I'm forced to sit at home not working well. I don't like it. I am currently searching for new jobs like I said but work is scarce. Finding a contractor willing to take on a 25 year old isn't easy.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> they are unwilling to take the time and train me.


If you worked for me, I'd not take the time to train you either and honestly, wouldn't be interested in it.

My Worldview:
You have to prove you WANT to work, do the tasks you are capable of now. And you have to WANT to do those, day in and day out, month in and month out, through good days and bad, sick days and not.

Then, you need to start to think ahead, to know what is needed next and do it before I get there, or need it. You have to show interest in learning the process and that will show actual interest instead of waiting around for me to tell you what to do next. My job is to do my job and yours is to do yours--and that means start to get ahead of me in materials, tools, and clean up behind me.

You may think you're just a grunt, labor, but you really need to be able to multi-task and be involved with your brain in what's going on. If not, you'll always stay a grunt, a body.

And part of your desire, the want to do the trades and move up is to learn. Do that on your own time as it's not my job to teach you my job, nor anyone elses, especially if I'm not sure you can do it, much less are interested in it in the first place. I'll know you are when you start to get a head of me in what I'm doing. That means you've been studying the trades ON YOUR OWN TIME.

Studying whatever trade on your off time, you'll be able to see it applied on your day job. Things will start to click and as they do, you'll learn what's next and already be there. Only then will you be able to progress up the ladder in the trade life---unless your dad owns the company. :laughing:


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> Finding a contractor willing to take on a 25 year old isn't easy.


I got into the trades pushing brooms, cleaning buckets, moving materials.
Oh, and I was in my 30s. Read my above post.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> Between the ages of 18-24 I was using quite a bit. I finally came to my senses when I turned 24 and decided that I wanted to do something.


You were not working:blink: How does one live without working:blink:


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

CO762 said:


> If you worked for me, I'd not take the time to train you either and honestly, wouldn't be interested in it.
> 
> My Worldview:
> You have to prove you WANT to work, do the tasks you are capable of now. And you have to WANT to do those, day in and day out, month in and month out, through good days and bad, sick days and not.
> ...


Especially if your dad owns the company :thumbsup:

Great post.


----------



## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

CO762 said:


> If you worked for me, I'd not take the time to train you either and honestly, wouldn't be interested in it.
> 
> My Worldview:
> You have to prove you WANT to work, do the tasks you are capable of now. And you have to WANT to do those, day in and day out, month in and month out, through good days and bad, sick days and not.
> ...


So why should I take the time and learn things on my own time if there's no indication that I'll be allowed to do things. I could go and buy a cheap coil nailer and learn how to use it fast. But if I don't have any indication that I'll be doing more than carrying shingles or siding why would I spend the money?

There's a difference between holding someone's hand and giving them basic instruction. Like I said before reading the theory here is only going to work so well. You can read how to use a skill saw all you want. But unless you cut with it you're not going to understand what it's like to have it jump out of your hands.

Understand what I am trying to say.


----------



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

Pay your dues, show that you want to learn, start helping the skilled guys more, ask questions. Takes a looooong time to move up


----------



## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

Hit the weights/run, be an animal move lots of things fast. Work like your life depends on it. A GOOD labourer is something you don't see much of because they dont stay labourers for long. If you look like you have potential you'll be trained.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

If you actually WANT to work, you will set yourself apart from the pack quickly. I come across very few people who actually want to work anymore.


----------



## Adumb (May 9, 2013)

NCMCarpentry said:


> Hit the weights/run, be an animal move lots of things fast. Work like your life depends on it. A GOOD labourer is something you don't see much of because they dont stay labourers for long. If you look like you have potential you'll be trained.


This is what I came in to post. You won't get anything from life unless _you_ work for them. It sounds like you need a can of harden up... Work hard, show you are able to work hard and the rest will come, in time. :clap:


----------



## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> So why should I take the time and learn things on my own time if there's no indication that I'll be allowed to do things. I could go and buy a cheap coil nailer and learn how to use it fast. But if I don't have any indication that I'll be doing more than carrying shingles or siding why would I spend the money?
> 
> There's a difference between holding someone's hand and giving them basic instruction. Like I said before reading the theory here is only going to work so well. You can read how to use a skill saw all you want. But unless you cut with it you're not going to understand what it's like to have it jump out of your hands.
> 
> Understand what I am trying to say.


I dont know what your boss is like or anything else as we are only getting one side of the story but that comment sounds like someone coming from the "entitlement era".

Its not in your boss's best interest to have to prove he will give you more its YOUR responsibility to prove you are worth more. He's there to provide a living for his family, the more you help with that the higher the priority you will become.

If he's an absolute d1ck and won't give an inch you will have an upper hand if you learn on your own for your next gig. If you cant/wont do that... Go to college.

Self motivation and satisfaction have to be your #1 attributes to make it in construction.


----------



## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

Deckhead said:


> I dont know what your boss is like or anything else as we are only getting one side of the story but that comment sounds like someone coming from the "entitlement era".
> 
> Its not in your boss's best interest to have to prove he will give you more its YOUR responsibility to prove you are worth more. He's there to provide a living for his family, the more you help with that the higher the priority you will become.
> 
> ...


If I though I was entitled I'd be complaining that I'm not making as much as a carpenter. Frankly I could care less about the money. I want to earn an honest pay but I also want the chance to prove myself.

How can I do that by not getting a chance to learn?


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Since money is not a huge concern, it may be time to part ways. Start looking for a new employer. Express during the interview your desire to learn and how that was not happening at the current job. I have seen some crews where it was an everyman for himself attitude. You may be stuck with one of those.


----------



## NCMCarpentry (Apr 7, 2013)

BucketofSteam said:


> So why should I take the time and learn things on my own time if there's no indication that I'll be allowed to do things. I could go and buy a cheap coil nailer and learn how to use it fast. But if I don't have any indication that I'll be doing more than carrying shingles or siding why would I spend the money?
> 
> There's a difference between holding someone's hand and giving them basic instruction. Like I said before reading the theory here is only going to work so well. You can read how to use a skill saw all you want. But unless you cut with it you're not going to understand what it's like to have it jump out of your hands.
> 
> Understand what I am trying to say.


Missed this post...

I'll be nice, 

You should take the time to learn things on your own time because if you keep at it, unless you get hit by a bus tomorrow I'm sure you will apply that knowledge one day. It will also help you understand what the others are doing so you can learn more by watching them. I don't mean stand there and stare at them for 15 minutes but keep tabs on whats going on and maybe ask them details when the momentum naturally slows down.

You should buy an atleast half decent coil nailer I got my paslode on sale for $180 and I like it. (I take it the guys you work with run their own guns for roofing) because if this is what you want to do for a living you'll have a use for it one day and if someone is sick or quits and they have room for another shingler you are ready to go ahead and use it. 

Very rarely will someone ever hold your hand and show you how to do something in this line of work... I understand thats not what your looking for but just want to help make that clear.

Basic instruction is you watching them do it.

Again the theory will help you make sense of what your co-workers are doing so you can learn how to do it.

The skill saw won't hurt you if your not scared of it, keep a firm grip and don't use it beyond your skill level.


----------



## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

Bucketofsteam, read 10 times:




CO762 said:


> Then, you need to start to think ahead, to know what is needed next and do it before I get there, or need it. You have to show interest in learning the process and that will show actual interest instead of waiting around for me to tell you what to do next. My job is to do my job and yours is to do yours--and that means start to get ahead of me in materials, tools, and clean up behind me.



Very true.


----------



## Eaglei (Aug 1, 2012)

It's not easy giving up bad habits but it sounds as if you already made a step in the right direction .Just stay determined and keep positive , the mind is a powerful tool . I've had friends who changed careers late in life and turned out to be very successful , so time is on your side . Be persistent when asking a contractor if they are hiring , lf there not leave your name and number . Then ask if they know anyone who may be hiring , get your name out there . Sometimes timing is everything and eventually things will fall in place .


----------



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

BucketofSteam said:


> If I though I was entitled I'd be complaining that I'm not making as much as a carpenter. Frankly I could care less about the money. I want to earn an honest pay but I also want the chance to prove myself.
> 
> How can I do that by not getting a chance to learn?


First off how long have you workes for said contractor.


----------



## hillbilly512 (Jul 27, 2012)

I started of the first week just scraping and oiling concrete forms. Then it was sweeping and packing icfs, and making up anchor bolt sets and keeping tidy. That was a year ago. Today for instance i did siding. Last week was trim. Week before that framing. I had to put in that I love this job so much id stand there all day and spray lumber as much as i hated that, i acted like it was a great day. After awhile i got to put the forms in and scrape them.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> why would I spend the money?


So don't spend a cent, be a tight wad and maybe those around will put into you what you put into yourself:no:


BucketofSteam said:


> There's a difference between holding someone's hand and giving them basic instruction.


 If a man has to strap his bags on you and hand you his hammer to show you how to hit a nail he's doing a lot more than holding your hand:blink:


BucketofSteam said:


> You can read how to use a skill saw all you want. But unless you cut with it you're not going to understand what it's like to have it jump out of your hands.


 So but a stinkin Skilsaw, bring all the scrap home and cut it up into little scrap:blink: While you're at at buy a framing hammer and a box of 16d nails, bring home the 4X scrap and start pounding the nails till you start them with one tap and set the with the next blow!


BucketofSteam said:


> Understand what I am trying to say.


 Yup, you want to be thought and be supplied with all the tools to be thought with and be paid while you learn:no:

And yes we have a member that brings home scrap to cut nail and mock up things, I'm proud of the young man:thumbsup:. He shows incentive and is given opportunity!


----------



## C2projects (Jan 9, 2013)

If you're seeking some sort of sympathy you've come to the wrong place. This is a site that has many successful contractors who have started from scratch. Sweat equity isn't the only way you advance in this type of work. I tell my guys that if they want to learn something to show me that they are worth teaching.

If you're not willing to invest time/money into your own improvement, why would anyone else invest in you on their dime? You dont need to buy the best brands of tools. YouTube has been a great resource of me back when I was a labourer I scoured the site for hours learning as much as I could and then I would ask questions the next day. 

You need to buy yourself a toolbelt if younrint have one already and set it up the way that works best for you. You've recieved some good advice from the vets in the trades. Take it and put it to use because your responses sound like you feel like you're owed something. If that's the attitude that you have it'll be a long time before you advance from a labourer. Remember that every single one of us started out as a labourer you need to make your employer think that you're more valuable than just a labourer. And it's your responsibility to show him that, no one else can do it for you.


----------



## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

The ole boy who taught me always said he didn't owe me till payday and that would also be the day that I found out how much I owed him for wasting his time. So I never wanted to learn on his time until I was confident it was going to be beneficial.

I still to this day 15 years removed from then have some of the crappiest lizard cages known to man because I needed practice. Knowledge is expensive, colleges don't pay for your books so why should contractors pay for your tools.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Never get caught waiting around for the next thing to do. Cleaning up always needs doing; always ask if you can give someone a hand; always keep your toolbelt on. I don't know about messing with scraps, but somehow you need to learn how to drive a nail, hard. I can't respect anyone's desire who tippy-taps at a nail; I will respect someone who slams a nail in, in a couple whacks. I can give that person some work to do. Good luck.


----------



## deter (Apr 4, 2013)

BucketofSteam said:


> my bosses decided that it's better I stay at home instead of wasting company time.
> 
> Thanks for your time.


Are you sure you weren't fired? Did they actually say that you were wasting company time?


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> So why should I take the time and learn things on my own time if there's no indication that I'll be allowed to do things.


The short answer is that you have to give before you can receive. Understandably tools are expensive and it wouldn't be very wise to blow your whole paycheck on an air compressor, hose, and neumatic nailer, BUT there are some things that you can buy to develop a skillset without spending a whole lot of money. 

For instance, paint and drywall are two trades that have the lowest inital investment when it comes to tools and supplies. When I became a laborer right out of college at 22, I bought a couple of gallons of white semi-gloss paint and one of those "all in one package" painter's kits that comes with the cheap roller, cheap brush, paint pan and plastic drop cloth. I starting doing side jobs, some for free, until I got good at it. The whole time I started to buy better brushes, a decent drop cloth, etc. 

Then one day when the painter didn't show up for work, I asked the boss if I could give it a try. He was impressed with my work because of all of that "practice" that I did on the weekends and after hours. The same thing happened with learning how to tape and finish drywall. I spent less than $10 on a couple of plastic knives and a bag of dry mud and started patching up all of the nail holes and cracks at home and everywhere else that someone would let me do it.

IMHO paint and drywall is something that ANYONE can do with enough practice. You might not be the best at it but if you have more time than money on your hands, you will be good enough to make more money until you find your niche in the industry.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

The lambasting has begun :thumbsup:


----------



## wnc viking (Aug 4, 2011)

This site is not the place to come to if you need a hug


----------



## livingsoulsdie (Sep 29, 2006)

When I started I made $7.50/hr I was 17. I wasn't able to to read a tape or even install a door knob. I am 26 & I am practically the lead carpenter with experience in just about every field of residential construction with only on the job experience. My advice to you is to be on the ball. Watch what everyone is doing and ask questions. Go online everynight and come on these forms and ask questions. READ READ READ !!! Order books on amazon.com about the type of work that is currently going on at your job and read your ass off. When your coworkers are doing something that requires instructions and they throw the instructions out, pick them out of the garbage and read them! You will find that most people dont read them and actually miss things. Pretty much just try your hardest to understand what is going on without useing the tools first. When everyone is gone get some scrap wood & circular saw and figure out how to use a swanson speed square to make angles and cut them. It may sound dumb but there is only one way to learn and that is by trying . Good luck my friend.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

livingsoulsdie said:


> When I started I made $7.50/hr


 Can't teach desire.

Maybe a good thread would be how we got started/what wage was/etc.
But I'm sure there are already a dozen of those.

Mine was $5.25/hr, three stories up, working a jackhammer on a wall I was half standing on.  It was funny as the only fall arrest was on the tool, so I guess I knew which they valued more.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

CO762 said:


> It was funny as the only fall arrest was on the tool, so I guess I knew which they valued more.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I know what you mean! Today I consider it a luxury to work on scissor lifts, aerial platforms, etc.

When I first started doing this type of work, I had to use scaffolding 30-40 feet in the air with only 2 walk boards. The company that I worked for considered anything more to be an unnecessary expense.:blink:


----------



## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

You guys are making me laugh. My first construction job paid $1.40 per hr... and "overtime" was the same $1.40 per hr., too. (early to mid '60's) I was a weld bead grinder for a steel fabrication co.


----------



## ZackyBundles (Dec 31, 2012)

Lol this guy made me laugh...sounds like a total fog ducker.


----------



## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

tedanderson said:


> The short answer is that you have to give before you can receive. Understandably tools are expensive and it wouldn't be very wise to blow your whole paycheck on an air compressor, hose, and neumatic nailer, BUT there are some things that you can buy to develop a skillset without spending a whole lot of money.
> 
> For instance, paint and drywall are two trades that have the lowest inital investment when it comes to tools and supplies. When I became a laborer right out of college at 22, I bought a couple of gallons of white semi-gloss paint and one of those "all in one package" painter's kits that comes with the cheap roller, cheap brush, paint pan and plastic drop cloth. I starting doing side jobs, some for free, until I got good at it. The whole time I started to buy better brushes, a decent drop cloth, etc.
> 
> ...


Right now my only real skill is painting. But painting jobs aren't something we get all the time. And frankly most of the time what painting is required doesn't need anymore than one person on it. Which means I get bumped.



deter said:


> Are you sure you weren't fired? Did they actually say that you were wasting company time?


Last time i checked I wasn't fired. And yes they did say that.



wnc viking said:


> This site is not the place to come to if you need a hug


All I want is advice.


----------



## Kilner (Jun 28, 2013)

Firstly don't take this the wrong way as I am just telling my story.

We all start young and have the same difficulty at the start to some extent!

I was in the same boat and it annoyed me so I quit and started up my own small business, it was hard at the start but that is how I got going.

Get yourself a small website and advertise yourself and see how it goes.

I know a designer who could build a website for you at low rates and he even does some SEO so let me know if that would interest you and ill pass on a message for you.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> Right now my only real skill is painting. But painting jobs aren't something we get all the time.


That's OK. Just keep practicing your craft and do side jobs on the weekend. The opportunity will come. You don't want to be kicking yourself 2 to 3 months from now when your painting skills are needed but you can't keep up with the other guys.


----------



## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

tedanderson said:


> That's OK. Just keep practicing your craft and do side jobs on the weekend. The opportunity will come. You don't want to be kicking yourself 2 to 3 months from now when your painting skills are needed but you can't keep up with the other guys.


Tell me about it. The saying if you don't use it you lose it. has more meaning when aren't working 40+ hours steady. 

Right now I'm trying to find a new job and I'm also looking for little side jobs that I can do for people. It's hard due to the fact that most of my skills are already a dime a dozen.


----------



## Kilner (Jun 28, 2013)

You just gotta stick at it, kinda like maturity really, comes with age


----------



## fourcornerhome (Feb 19, 2008)

Act like you want to be there.
I started out on a roofing crew at 16, carried shingles, tear- off and cleaned up.
The guys would say that when all the shingles were up, I can learn to nail.
I don't think I nailed a shingle till my third year because those guys would use them up as fast as I could carry. I even started to carry two at a time in hopes of an opportunity to nail.
The magic day did come eventually and the rest is history!


----------



## Carpenter eyes (Jan 10, 2012)

fourcornerhome said:


> Act like you want to be there.
> I started out on a roofing crew at 16, carried shingles, tear- off and cleaned up.
> The guys would say that when all the shingles were up, I can learn to nail.
> I don't think I nailed a shingle till my third year because those guys would use them up as fast as I could carry. I even started to carry two at a time in hopes of an opportunity to nail.
> The magic day did come eventually and the rest is history!


I worked with one roofer and i could not keep up with him. Few years later i burry my laborer.

Everyone has to start somewhere


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

BucketofSteam said:


> It's hard due to the fact that most of my skills are already a dime a dozen.


Dime-a-dozen folks are the "average" people who do just enough to get a satisfactory job done. You can be above average and develop a niche that makes you stand out above the rest. 

I'm sure that most painters in your area make $8 an hour but If you were to ask around, there is always that one guy that everyone says is AWESOME. That's the guy that you hire if you can afford him. That's the guy that has a waiting list. That's the guy that turns away business unless you happen to be a friend of his or close to someone that he knows.

That's the guy that you can be too. :thumbup: I have some clients that will wait as long as 3 months for me to get over to their house and I can always charge them top dollar becuase they don't trust anyone other than Ted to do the work.


----------



## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey man, self learning is a big!!! part of this. Your boss may not be much a teacher, but if you observe, look at the plans on break and just are aware of your surroundings, things will start to make sense. Then when you go home, you can read books, review some pictures and ask questions here. I learned a ton of stuff here. As you do more jobs and gain experience things will fall into place and become familiar.. Most of what we do is not rocket science, it is systematic, if you can layout one stud, lay out a wall, 2 walls, 4 walls.. a house.. Retain your knowledge and build upon it. You may be "low skilled" now, but if you have half a brain and more importantly the heart and desire to do this type of work.. people will notice you and be more then willing to help. (Ask me how I know)
You can teach someone how to build anything in the world, but if the attitude is not there... you cannot teach that.
As others have said previously, you must pay your dues, clean, sweep, do whatever it takes, show your dedication and in time you will move up. We were all "low skilled" guys at one time, but little by little knowledge starts to come your way and before you know it you are one step above where you started.
Best of luck. 
Happy Hammering :thumbsup:


----------



## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

tedanderson said:


> Dime-a-dozen folks are the "average" people who do just enough to get a satisfactory job done. You can be above average and develop a niche that makes you stand out above the rest.
> 
> I'm sure that most painters in your area make $8 an hour but If you were to ask around, there is always that one guy that everyone says is AWESOME. That's the guy that you hire if you can afford him. That's the guy that has a waiting list. That's the guy that turns away business unless you happen to be a friend of his or close to someone that he knows.
> 
> That's the guy that you can be too. :thumbup: I have some clients that will wait as long as 3 months for me to get over to their house and I can always charge them top dollar becuase they don't trust anyone other than Ted to do the work.


I don't know what the rate is but yeah that's about right. Unfortunately While I can paint I'm not fast I tend to paint with the idea that the less I have to touch up the better it is.


Anyways though I'd post an update. I've been talking with a friend that owns a contracting company, he got me a couple small jobs one's a small bathroom that needs a few nail holes fixed and then painted. The other one is building a treehouse. I'm doing the work and getting the materials he's going to inspect it and give it the ok.

It's a start.


----------



## Marshalls (Jun 25, 2013)

BucketofSteam said:


> Sorry. I knew I forgot something.
> 
> I live in nova scotia canada.


Inbox me your location. Maybe i can help you out sometime. Im in Nova Scotia as well.:thumbsup:


----------

