# Top Down Roofing



## doubleaction (Oct 22, 2005)

maj said:


> How's that!!!!!?????
> 
> Every shingle is nailed just as if you were starting at the bottom.



I was thinking the same thing, as long you nail the shingles right there wouldnt be a problem.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

maj said:


> How's that!!!!!?????
> 
> Every shingle is nailed just as if you were starting at the bottom.


By lifting them to install the nails correctly you can damage or crack the shingle. this also could not be done if it was warm out and had a back sealing shingle. 
This happens alot on 3 tab shingles when racking. When the shingle is bent over for nailing it can crack and also be nailed wrong. Now doing this on a whole row of shingles from end to end, you can have alot of shingles nailed improperly. 

Besides, like I said, waste of time. By the time you measure it all out to come out right on the bottom, you could go down and start right.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

If you can't lift up a shingle and nail the one under it successfully, - - you probably don't belong on the roof, anyway. 

Leave it to the pros.

It gets done all the time anyway, - - staging, pump jacks, adding vent flanges, roof repairs, etc., etc.

And how long does it take you to measure any increment of 5", and then minus 1"?? 

It's not rocket science, - - although I guess you do gotta know your 'goz-intas' :laughing: 

Like I say, - - it's actually a 'time-saver' in certain instances.

Most people on this forum enjoy trading new ideas, - - and then sometimes even adding some of them to their 'bag-of-tricks'.

Then again, - - it's not required, - - so don't go gettin' yourself all upset.

If you feel you already know it all, - - the question gets begged, - - why are you here??


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## snapper21 (Mar 13, 2006)

I have done top down on many occasions. Usually roofing jack/walkboard jobs, and white shingles in the hotter parts of summer on substantial pitch.
The shed pictures I put in the gallery were actually a top down job. One walkboard setup, a small foam rubber stretch to the ridge, and a ground setup, but top down all the same.
The shingles were/are never lifted enough to cause a crease so the point I saw stated earlier is outtahere. I roof by hand/hatchet.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I don't know of a good shingle that has 5" exposure, so that is out. White shingles should not be sold in northern areas. 3 tab star white is all you can get.

You are not supposed to break the seal of a shingle after it has sealed. Talk to a rep, they'll tell ya. Sure you can lift a shingle and nail under it (as long as it's not a GAF), but also, if you can't go to the bottom and shingle right then you don't belong on a roof either. I have shingled down before a couple feet to come over a dormer, but not a whole roof. It's just wrong.

The reason I am here is to share knowledge and learn a few things, same as everyone else. When I see something wrong I will point it out.


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

MJW said:


> I don't know of a good shingle that has 5" exposure, so that is out. White shingles should not be sold in northern areas. 3 tab star white is all you can get.
> 
> You are not supposed to break the seal of a shingle after it has sealed. Talk to a rep, they'll tell ya. Sure you can lift a shingle and nail under it (as long as it's not a GAF), but also, if you can't go to the bottom and shingle right then you don't belong on a roof either. I have shingled down before a couple feet to come over a dormer, but not a whole roof. It's just wrong.
> 
> The reason I am here is to share knowledge and learn a few things, same as everyone else. When I see something wrong I will point it out.


There was an article in JLC a few years back about this process, prolly Mike Guertin, but he described doing it just like was described here. So I don't know why you are so bent on saying it is just wrong!!!!! If you are so slow that the shingles are sealed before you come down 6' or so, then maybe you should consider another line of work.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

slow hahaha

Anyways, I have put shingles down that have sealed immediately and I'm in MN. I'm sure everyone has seen that.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

MJW said:


> I don't know of a good shingle that has 5" exposure, so that is out. White shingles should not be sold in northern areas. 3 tab star white is all you can get.
> 
> You are not supposed to break the seal of a shingle after it has sealed. Talk to a rep, they'll tell ya. Sure you can lift a shingle and nail under it (as long as it's not a GAF), but also, if you can't go to the bottom and shingle right then you don't belong on a roof either. I have shingled down before a couple feet to come over a dormer, but not a whole roof. It's just wrong.
> 
> The reason I am here is to share knowledge and learn a few things, same as everyone else. When I see something wrong I will point it out.




Maybe you should be arguing with some of the people you're accusing of not belonging on a roof, - - like some of the roofers associated with the 'Journal of Light Construction', - - or the (at least) several here who have done it on many an occasion.

I'll be the first to admit, - - when I first heard it, - - I thought it was pretty far-fetched, too.

But not being even 'nearly' as HARD-HEADED as I sometimes PRETEND TO BE, - - I kept it in the back of my (hard) head, - - and sure 'nuff, - - found myself using it more and more, - - and MUCH TO MY ADVANTAGE!!

Your 5" argument is really 'grasping', - - make that any number you want.

Your 'breaking the seal' argument is AWASH, - - they haven't sealed to the underlapped shingle 'til you put it under there, - - and once you do that you're already nailing it.

Your 'northern' argument should be reserved for the next time you decide to click only on to 'northern-contractor-talk'.com. 

Other than all that, - - I'm sure you seem like a perfectly reasonable person to anyone/everyone who is reading this. :thumbsup:


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

maj said:


> There was an article in JLC a few years back about this process, prolly Mike Guertin, but he described doing it just like was described here. So I don't know why you are so bent on saying it is just wrong!!!!! If you are so slow that the shingles are sealed before you come down 6' or so, then maybe you should consider another line of work.



That's probably where I first heard of it, maj, - - I don't even remember for sure, - - some people just can't seem to accept that the limits of their 'genius' never seem to go any further than their own SELF-DECLARATION!!


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

I'm always open for new, better, faster ways of doing things (even sex :w00t: ), and I have picked up a few things on this board the short time I've been here. So when I have the opportunity to pass on some of mine or add to someones posts here, I feel like it's a payback to all the knowledgeable folks here. I believe if someone is so stubborn to not accept other techniques, whether you use them or not, then it must be time for a carreer change.

Now, I will argue a few statements here & there, like when someone :whistling tries telling me that air conditioning ADDS moisture to the indoor air.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

OK, I'm not trying to sound like an ignorant jack, but here we go. 5 5/8 exposure. 21 feet 3 inches from the drip edge to the peak and a 1/2" overhang. Have a calculator in your pouch? probably not. By the time you get that figure, I could be at the bottom starting my second square of shingles. Is that really faster???

Yes, the shingle may not seal to the felt, but what about the shingle above that, that is high nailed to slide the course in under it?? Maybe I am missing something, but it doesn't make much sense.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

MJW said:


> OK, I'm not trying to sound like an ignorant jack, but here we go. 5 5/8 exposure. 21 feet 3 inches from the drip edge to the peak and a 1/2" overhang. Have a calculator in your pouch? probably not. By the time you get that figure, I could be at the bottom starting my second square of shingles. Is that really faster???
> 
> Yes, the shingle may not seal to the felt, but what about the shingle above that, that is high nailed to slide the course in under it?? Maybe I am missing something, but it doesn't make much sense.



This can get done real fast in your head, - - 2 X 5 5/8" = 11 1/4", - - 2 X 11 1/4" = 22 1/2", - - now take any increment of 22 1/2 or even 45 for that matter. 

Nice, easy numbers. All you need to do is fall ANYWHERE NEAR 6' or 7' from the top. 

If you need a calculator for that, - - you should probably carry one at all times anyway.

Talk about not making sense, - - read your second paragraph again and explain to me why it would be hard to slide a shingle up and under. Only the very bottom row of each section is high-nailed. When you do (slide under) with the top row of the section below, it falls way short (about 4") of the high-nails.

Re-read post number 6 again, - - but without all the skepticism, - - keep an open mind. :thumbsup:


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Edit: Repeat-post, - - sorry, I must'a stuttered . . . :laughing:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Tom R said:


> This can get done real fast in your head, - - 2 X 5 5/8" = 11 1/4", - - 2 X 11 1/4" = 22 1/2", - - now take any increment of 22 1/2 or even 45 for that matter.
> 
> Nice, easy numbers. All you need to do is fall ANYWHERE NEAR 6' or 7' from the top.
> 
> ...


Tomr studied his 'goz-intas' :w00t: .


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## snapper21 (Mar 13, 2006)

MJW, I'll give it to you, you do have a point, but only in a broad sense. Just my opinion, but here it is, you can, as I did with yours, take it, throw it away, or senselessly argue it.
I don't believe the adhesion is taken away unless you have left them in the sun long enough to where when you pull the shingle up from the other, to nail your lower nails, it pulls away the other shingles materials(ie: tar, asphalt, etc.). If it does pull away from the other shingles properties/materials, you have damaged the integrity of the shingle/bond. That is a matter of consideration the roofer should take into account before considering this method. But if the two properties/materials come apart as themselves, you've not really taken from. I'll admit that I've been wrong in the size of my top down stretches before, and have been beaten by the seal, and you can turn me in or take my roofer badge for it if you must, I am but a pimple on the arse of the masses who have made misjudgements. If you were to get up on the last roof I top down'd, or any others for that matter (excluding the couple I made a miscalculation on) you can tug away at all the courses and find that there is no difference in adhesion in any of the courses. 
If you have a problem with white shingles in certain geographic areas your arguement is to the companies who supply them, not the roofers who install them. I can consult a HO till I'm blue in the face on their decisions of color, but what they want is, in most cases, what their going to get. Again, come on over and take my roofers badge for it, I'll just buy another box of cracker jacks.


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## Scott Young (Dec 23, 2005)

the top down is the only way i have done roofs over 10/12. as for the seal breakin, if you must, reseal with a tube of sealant. in the heat of the south, i would rather chance a resealed shingle that have a scared roof.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I do understand the whole reasoning for this method, don't get me wrong. If it is hot enough for the shingles to scar, then it is plenty warm enough for them to seal before you drop down for another 6' of shingling. If the shingles are any good at all, and seal, they will not come apart without ruining them. Maybe the shingles up here have a better seal.???.....?

We always save our steep pitches for winter months or cooler months of the year. Some do not have that option.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

TomR, I don't see a problem with sliding the shingle under, it's getting that shingle above nailed without cracking or breaking the shingle or breaking the seal.


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

We have done variations of this method on cut up "victorian" type houses and its really not a big deal.
my guys prefer with metric shingles to snap lines on 5 1/2" increments rather than 5/8th but most shingles in this area are standard, GAFs are made in Millis,Ma. and are standard as are Certainteed, they tried converting to metric a few years ago but the roofers up here got pissed off about it. I personally dont really care either way.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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