# What's wrong here? Your opinion plz.



## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

Hey guys,

I recently did a pre-listing home inspection for a real estate agent. In the report, I found a number of elements with the electrical that I thought were a hazard and should be inspected by a licensed electrician or ESA inspector (Electrical Safety Authority).

Well, this caused the real estate agent and her client to become furious. They claim there is nothing wrong with the electrical. She was obviously trying to bribe me, and became very upset as I was performing my inspection. She claims the wiring in the attic is dead, but I ask would a licensed/professional electrician ever just leave supposedly dead wires like this in the attic?

The electrical panel itself is located above the stove, on top of the exhaust fan...with the vent pipe running directly/touching the electrical panel.

Was I wrong to state that the electrical in this house was a hazard and should be inspected>?


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

More. Junctions buried in insulation, exposed wiring, illegal connections, it's just a mess. What would you say? I listed the electrical as a major hazard requiring a licensed electrician to thoroughly inspect. I see so many things wrong here (again, she claims the wiring in the attic is dead-I can't say either ways). The panel itself looks all wrong/illegal, with the exhaust fan touching the panel, it's inaccessibility, location atop the range hood/stove...junction boxes,etc.)


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

Even some more. More to come


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

And yet some more. Bear in mind this is above the stove in the kitchen, atop the range hood.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

This is in the basement, can junction boxes be that close to eachother?


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## 1mancrew (Nov 17, 2008)

That home definately needs a licensed electrician to straighten up that wiring.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

This is the setup for the main panel, the pictures are above but this is where it's located in the kitchen. Above the stove in the lower left of the picture.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Get it inspected by a licensed/certified electrician. Looks pretty much DIY to me.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Interesting place for a panel. There are tonnes of dead wires in old houses, especially old knob and tube wires. This does not pose a problem except when thoes "dead" wires are in fact in use! 

Let me use my house as an example, its about 100 years old, when I bought it the real estate agent said the wire was all copper, no knob and tube. From a quick glance that's what it looked like. After I traced everything out there were about 5 or 6 dedicated new 15A runs with very little attached. 80% of the outlets and lights were connector to old knob and tube wire......all on one breaker!:w00t:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

To start with, half of the panel,










is a total violation of 240.81. There's also a missing NM connector in the 1g j-box in the lower right. 

Another tell-tale sign of hack work: Improper connectors used on NM (red arrows). This is an MN connector, not an NM connector. That screw is going to ruin the cable. Blue arrow indicates missing screw on MC connector.










There is also a lack of proper cable support all the way around.


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

Four words.

Sub standard electrical system.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

220/221 said:


> Four words.
> 
> Sub standard electrical system.


 
Just three. The first two are really one word.:shifty:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

480 is using a MN connector on Romex actually a violation? I see it all the time, and often on heavier gauge cable electricians will wrap a scrap of insulation around the wire to help protect it from the plate/screw.

I rarely see these used with Romex:










And I think that has to do with the fact they are a little more expensive and not as fast to install.

Although price and speed has caused these to be the box connector or choice for residential now:


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## BC_Painter (Mar 18, 2010)

I would get it inspected too. No way you can convince me that everything in there is fine 

They need to have it inspected and tidied :thumbsup:


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## sparks134 (Oct 5, 2009)

All I have to say is :w00t:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> 480 is using a MN connector on Romex actually a violation? ..............


 
Those are not NM connectors at the red arrows, they are *MC* connectors.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Dont you love it when a realtor who doesn't know an amp from a king stud states that all is well?



Heritage, you are absolutely correct in needing a licensed electrician to make some corrections there. Stick to your guns!:thumbsup:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Heritage, one more thought on the realtor. Since the realtor is so sure that the wires are dead, ask her/him if they would be willing to go touch the white and black wires at the same time-just to be sure.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Heritage, one more thought on the realtor. Since the realtor is so sure that the wires are dead, ask her/him if they would be willing to go touch the white and black wires at the same time-just to be sure.


:laughing::thumbsup:

Thanks for the feedback/info guys.

Of course, as an inspector when I see wiring like this I have a responsibility to note that in my report, list it as hazard and insist a licensed electrician inspect all the wiring throughout the house.

She's pissed, I could care less.

You guys are the pros, so I figured I could show you guys the pictures and if I was wrong you can say "Heritage, you're wrong, that wiring is fine".

QUESTION:
-Is it ok for the main panel to be above the stove/range?
-Is it ok that the exhaust pipe for the range hood is in contact with the panel?
-Are all those junction boxes on the right hand corner acceptable?
-What else do you see that I missed?

I have already noted the things Sparky480 pointed out, I didn't even know that.

Here's a couple more pics, the no GFCI is an exterior outlet.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Heritage, the exterior GFCI could possibly be protected by a GFCI breaker, or an upstream GFCI device. But after looking at the switch mounted to the back of the stair riser, along with the other shots, it's obvious that a DIY HO, or a typical hack has has his grubby mitts on that house. So more than likely it's not wired correctly.

The individual repairs may not even cost too much to accomplish. A good sparky can buzz through those modifications pretty quickly unless there is a whole bunch of wiring buried in walls that dont check out.


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