# Largest slab poured from 80lb bags?



## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

I have a project coming up with no access for a concrete truck. The slab will be 20' x 17' x 4", has anyone ever poured something this large out of 80lb bags? I estimate around 200 bags. I have done smaller 8' x 8' slabs without much difficulty. Any thoughts? Tips?


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

can you pump of shoot it?

or mix from scratch?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

When I was about 23 or so, I helped a guy pour a basement that size with a scratch mix and an electric mixer. One end was setting long before we finished pouring the other..... That was 36 years ago and I have *NEVER* been tempted to try any thing like it again!
Get_ lots _of help...good luck


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

too much labor and the likelihood that you will lose the pour. I cant imagine a pour with no pump access. Hell I would even upen up a piece of roof and ceiling for hose access before i would ever consider a 200 bag pour.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Get a line pump in there, I have even gone so far in the past to run it through the front door of the house, just make sure you put moving blankets done to protect the walls and floors.


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## Kingfisher (Mar 18, 2007)

Pump truck:thumbsup: not that much cost wise, I think you could get a small out fit to do it for around $400. Is that an option or is this realy not reachable like an island or up a mountain:sad: Did a shop floor 10' x 12' with my dad and mom growing up by the end none of use were talking :no::furious: its a chore.


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## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

Chris Johnson said:


> Get a line pump in there, I have even gone so far in the past to run it through the front door of the house, just make sure you put moving blankets done to protect the walls and floors.


I've had one hose rupture in the middle of a pour. After seeing that once, I would N E V E R run a hose through a house. It placed wet rock 40' away and littered the first floor framing with a crapload of rock - what kind of damage would a blast like that do to the inside of a house from 10' away?

But I would definitely get a pump truck in there. They've got enough hose unless you're *that* far away from street access. Call a couple of local pump outfits - give them the particulars and they can give a quote if they're able to do it. You can base the quote against how many hours it would take you to do it by hand baggin'. I can't even begin to imagine the hard labor running 200 bags of concrete by hand and trying to keep it wet enough to work the whole surface to to a level, finished state.

Mac


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Last year my guys got a pumper that boomed _over_ the house. It was fun to watch (I like it when I don't have to drag, clean hose:whistling)


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

I would use a couple of bobcats with buckets, as a last resort, to transfer it from the truck at the street to the pour site before I would even consider that insanity.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

I've given it some thought, this can be done, You will need 104 day laborers (easily found at the local home center in any of the sanctuary cities), 104 cement mixing pans, 104 mixing tools, 104 5 gallon buckets and a coach's whistle. The extra 4 on every thing is back up just in case of a problem. You line up the laborers outside, each with 2 bags of concrete, a mixing pan, a mixing tool and a 5 gallon bucket. You fill all the 5 gallon buckets with water, when that's done and everybody is in their places and ready to go you blow your whistle and they all begin mixing 2 bags of concrete each. When they are finished mixing they pour the concrete into the buckets, form a bucket brigade in both directions and move the concrete inside and return the empty buckets back to be filled and returned again. You then return all the buckets, mixing pans and mixing tools to the home center for a refund, give the laborers $5 each and a bag of peanuts as agreed upon, DONE.:whistling

Obviously I'm kidding, but I can't think of any good way other than pump it, chutes, wheel barrows or using the bobcats as already suggested.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Actually, I think if you grade it tight, it _only_ comes out @ *170* bags.
Go for it!:thumbup:


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

> I've given it some thought, this can be done, You will need 104 day laborers (easily found at the local home center in any of the sanctuary cities), 104 cement mixing pans, 104 mixing tools, 104 5 gallon buckets and a coach's whistle. The extra 4 on every thing is back up just in case of a problem. You line up the laborers outside, each with 2 bags of concrete, a mixing pan, a mixing tool and a 5 gallon bucket. You fill all the 5 gallon buckets with water, when that's done and everybody is in their places and ready to go you blow your whistle and they all begin mixing 2 bags of concrete each. When they are finished mixing they pour the concrete into the buckets, form a bucket brigade in both directions and move the concrete inside and return the empty buckets back to be filled and returned again. You then return all the buckets, mixing pans and mixing tools to the home center for a refund, give the laborers $5 each and a bag of peanuts as agreed upon, DONE.:whistling


Not bad, that just may work:thumbsup:

I guess I will go with a pump. I was quoted $1000 not including concrete or finishing (just to bring the pump truck out). I have never used a pump company before and this price seemed outrageous to me. This was by an independent pump truck owner, I didn't even bother calling the bigger companies, was this guy just trying to get rich off of me? He was referred to me as "good work at reasonable prices" by a friend.
BTW this slab is not unreachable, just heavily surrounded by trees and a fence, neither of which the HO wants taken down.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

It's either pump it or dry pour it, and the dry pour will look like hammered dog crap.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

For $1000 could you hire a couple of extra guys and wheel it? Geeze even a couple new wheel barrows at $100 each...
Around here small pumps seem to be $250 -$400. Maybe this guy is set up to pump 10 stories? Can't believe all the pumps driving around here these days. Shop.


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## BuiltByMAC (Mar 11, 2006)

curapa said:


> ... I was quoted $1000 not including concrete or finishing (just to bring the pump truck out). I have never used a pump company before and this price seemed outrageous to me. ...


How far is the jobsite from town?

What part of the country are you in?

How far is the pour site from the road?

What facilities do you have for the pump company to clean out their hoses?

These all affect price.

Most of my pump costs run around $200. That's pour site within 200 ft. of road, in town here in Oregon.


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## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

curapa said:


> I have a project coming up with no access for a concrete truck. The slab will be 20' x 17' x 4", has anyone ever poured something this large out of 80lb bags? I estimate around 200 bags. I have done smaller 8' x 8' slabs without much difficulty. Any thoughts? Tips?


Have you considered a pump truck or concrete buggys, a buggy rents for a 150 per day


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I was doing 12' X 12' X 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" (60-66 bags) about every other month for a couple of years. No problem, I wouldn't hesitate to go bigger and have plans to with footers.

Tricks.

A couple of guys willing to WORK!!!

The above were always on existing slabs and I sealed then bonded them to prevent wicking away moisture. On bare ground I use Visqueen. Moisture content is also crucial to curing.

2 bags is all that you can mix in a wheelbarrow. Premeasure your water on the first batch and use 2 5gal. buckets. One is a 'control bucket', if you need to add more water to the mix add the same amount to the 'control' bucket. When you have it right, mark the level in the control bucket and it becomes the primary bucket. Fill it to the same line every time.

Use a couple of good 6" hoes with a guy working from each end of the wheelbarrow. Once you get the rhythm down, you should be cranking down about 2 bags in 2 mins. or less.

For 200 bags I'd bring in a second team and a helper to ferry bags, etc.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

neolitic said:


> For $1000 could you hire a couple of extra guys and wheel it? Geeze even a couple new wheel barrows at $100 each...
> Around here small pumps seem to be $250 -$400. Maybe this guy is set up to pump 10 stories? Can't believe all the pumps driving around here these days. Shop.



Where is AROUND HERE? Because in New York, you are looking at $1,200 to $1,500 for a pump truck. and I believe many are hitting you with Fule Surcharges on top of that.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

I just paid $590 including mud for 2.5 yards pumped (line) into piers and a pad from about 150'. It took less than 1.5 hours from the start to the brooming of the pad. Well worth it in my opinion.


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

I made a few calls today after seeing what some of you are paying for the pump truck and it turns out this guy jacked up his prices in hopes to get a quick hefty paycheck. He is apparently about to lose his truck and needs a bit of cash quick. My friend told me he knew he was in debt but didn't expect him to jack up prices to make ends meet. His normal charge would have been around $500 from what I hear.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Digger1799 said:


> Where is AROUND HERE? Because in New York, you are looking at $1,200 to $1,500 for a pump truck. and I believe many are hitting you with Fule Surcharges on top of that.


UUUUh, that would be....
<---

And Mac is in the Pacific North Wet, he says $200!


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## shed-n-deck (Sep 25, 2007)

curapa said:


> I made a few calls today after seeing what some of you are paying for the pump truck and it turns out this guy jacked up his prices in hopes to get a quick hefty paycheck. He is apparently about to lose his truck and needs a bit of cash quick. My friend told me he knew he was in debt but didn't expect him to jack up prices to make ends meet. His normal charge would have been around $500 from what I hear.


Well, he tried taking advantage of you...Call him back and take advantage of him. Tell him you know of his situation, and that even though he tried to rip you off, you'd still be willing to hire him for the job and pay him $300.00 for his time.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

First - I think you're crazy. 

Second - I think you're going to need 226 bags ... but that's neither here nor there ....


Third ... doesn't make sense financially to do it this way. I'm not wasting time breaking this down for you (i will later if you ask). But it'll cost more doing it by the bag



Most I've ever done by myself (at least within past 5 years that I can remember) was a 36 sq. ft. pad. I felt like an idiot for trying to attempt this alone. If nothing else - it was certainly not the "professional" way of doing it.


$1,200 for pump truck (boom truck) is reasonable (areas of the country aside). You would need a dozen guys just for labor ... so you'd end up paying this anyways.



If you can't get a skid steer in (due to trees, fence, etc) - use one of those walk behind loaders (landscapers use them) - or a concrete buggy ... or a boom truck.



if 8x8 pads are the most you've done by yourself - with the mix/bag way - you're in for one hell of a surprise


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Teetorbilt said:


> I was doing 12' X 12' X 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" (60-66 bags) about every other month for a couple of years. No problem, I wouldn't hesitate to go bigger and have plans to with footers.
> 
> Tricks.
> 
> ...


I gotta call shenanigans here.

First ... 60-66 bags for 144 sq feet??? I might give you that only if it sub base was exactly on-grade and without any low spots

In the real world ... haven't seen too many concrete preps that didn't have some low spots. 


Second - again, financially does not make sense to do that way. You would pay more in labor than you would for the minimum delivery charge in concrete from the plant.


Third - *can't see why anyone who would've attempted this would want to do it AGAIN*




Also - i certainly hope these aren't footers or anything structural. Just throw in the factor of human error and it's near impossible to be have a consistent mix


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

While I wouldn't want to be involved in this thing personally, I don't see the big deal if you're willing to either be involved in the nightmare yourself or better yet get yourself some cheap and dumb labor to do it as you direct the action. 95% of this scenario is dumb labor with 5% concrete knowledge and finishing skill.




curapa said:


> I have a project coming up with no access for a concrete truck. The slab will be 20' x 17' x 4", has anyone ever poured something this large out of 80lb bags? I estimate around 200 bags. I have done smaller 8' x 8' slabs without much difficulty. Any thoughts? Tips?


As I see it what you want to do is just doing your 8x8s four times. There is no way in hell you can do a competent job trying to do this entire slab as a single 200 bag pour, but you could very competently do it as (4) 10'x8'-6" slabs done one right after the other.

Anything is doable, they built the pyramids without power tools you know, the difference between speed/efficiency and just getting the job done is adding more man power. 

Teetor in a past life was a pyramid builder ya know! While his ways might not involve turning the key on a Cat to get something done, he knows that shovels will still move the same dirt. :thumbsup:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I have job mixed over 200 bags in 8 hours, but it was to grout a 12" CMU wall, so time was not a factor. I would still never do it again, no matter what the cost.


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

I completely understand the difficulty in doing a 200 bag pour and it was not something I wanted to do. I also understand the additional cost in labor and concrete but I was not going to pay $1000 just for the pump truck to come out. The total bid for the 17' x 20' pad was $3200 and I wasnt willing to pay that. I'm getting some more quotes on pump trucks this week.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

curapa said:


> I completely understand the difficulty in doing a 200 bag pour and it was not something I wanted to do. I also understand the additional cost in labor and concrete but I was not going to pay $1000 just for the pump truck to come out. The total bid for the 17' x 20' pad was $3200 and I wasnt willing to pay that. I'm getting some more quotes on pump trucks this week.


dude, im tellin ya at $3200 - if you go with the bags - you're going to break even - if not lose money on this job. And for the amount of work involved - it is NOT WORTH IT. 


You're going to need AT LEAST a dozen guys to make this work in a reasonable amount of time .... and they would need to be hustling the entire time.


evidently - you didn't think of all of this when you bid the job out. Judging by the price - you just figured up 340 sq. ft. and spat out the sq. foot price


have you even thought about how many wheelbarrows you're going to need???? At $75 a pop - you're going to exceed the cost in renting a skid steer for the day. See how ridiculous that sounds??


concrete work sucks enough - let alone sucks even more when you don't make money on it. My advice would be to either *cancel the job *- or tell them the situation (be upfront) and get some more money for the pump truck. 

*You SHOULD have in your contract that "Client provides access to site" ... having trees, sewer lines, fences, etc in the way is included in such clauses.*

*
THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU SHOULD NOT USE ONLY SQUARE FOOT PRICING FOR PRICING THE JOBS OUT*


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## bobcaygeonjon (Aug 30, 2007)

It can be done. Listen to teetor. Get 2 mixers going and get them as close to the pour as possible. How big are the mixers. 2 bag each? The main thing is though you will need a good crew and a good guy to start trowling off the first part of the pour while still pouring the later half. 
But then again how would the cost of a larger crew and extra mixer etc compare to the cost of a pumpp truck?


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

bobcaygeonjon said:


> It can be done. Listen to teetor. Get 2 mixers going and get them as close to the pour as possible. How big are the mixers. 2 bag each? The main thing is though you will need a good crew and a good guy to start trowling off the first part of the pour while still pouring the later half.
> But then again how would the cost of a larger crew and extra mixer etc compare to the cost of a pumpp truck?


What happens if one of those mixers breaks?


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

of course it can be done ... 

but this is like digging someone's foundation for an addition by hand, with a shovel just because you can't fit a backhoe 


point is - HELLO! ... ACCESS CLAUSE????

ugh ... nevermind ... maybe im the crazy one


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

What is the actual situation? You've had lots of advice but there doesn't seem to be much info, unless I missed it. How close can you get a concrete truck? A couple hundred yards, or a couple miles? If you can get delivery on site then just rent barrows and people and wheel the stuff in. I recently did 3-7yd pours several hundred yards from the truck with three barrows. They kept me hopping on the vibe and finishing on footers, walls and slabs. If it's further than that you'll need more barrows for the turn-around time.

If it's across a lake and up a mountain trail, I grant you this method might not be practical.


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## CaliDesigns (Sep 3, 2007)

Let me get this straight. You bid a patio at $9.42/sq.ft. , and you want to spend $1000 on bags vs. $360 for ready mix, but don't want to spend 400 for a pump? Sounds like you should sub this one out. If you were in my area, I'd do it and stamp it for $10.25/ sq.ft. For the record, my largest pour (not bags) was 2,640 yrds in 10 hrs.


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

CaliDesigns said:


> Let me get this straight. You bid a patio at $9.42/sq.ft. , and you want to spend $1000 on bags vs. $360 for ready mix, but don't want to spend 400 for a pump? Sounds like you should sub this one out. If you were in my area, I'd do it and stamp it for $10.25/ sq.ft. For the record, my largest pour (not bags) was 2,640 yrds in 10 hrs.


Actually the guy with the pump truck quoted me at $3200 to pour and finish the pad. I have gotten several quotes from others If I were able to get a concrete truck in there at $1100-$1600. 

This pad is for a pergola on the opposite side of a pond behind someones home. It can be reached with a pump truck and will be a very easy job. 

The pergola will be built over the slab and then the slab will get tiled. 

I have now gotten quotes from other pump truck companies and they are in line with what I had budgeted. After I got the initial quote for the pump truck it threw me way off and I resourced here for other options. I had never done a 200 bag pour so I asked if it was possible and if so did anyone have any advise. I am no concrete guy and you couldn't pay enough to mess with the stuff for a living other than setting posts and such. If it were possible to do a decent pour with bags I would have no problem paying $1000 for bags and $1000 for labor rather than the previous $3200 for the pump truck.
BTW I had never thought of having the concrete delivered and wheelbarrowing it to the slab, I will keep that in mind.

Thanks for the help,
Curt


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## J&A IslandWide (Nov 1, 2007)

Go with the ready-mix, get your self 2 wheelbarrels and 2 guys that will carry the concrete to the frame, put another guy in the mud to screed. As long as its not uphill for the wheelbarrels you should be fine. Figiure about 13-17 trips at half-full wheelbarrel per yard...you need about 5 yards...do not fill them up all the way...close to 400 lbs if there full.


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## a2zhandi (Nov 2, 2007)

curapa said:


> I have a project coming up with no access for a concrete truck. The slab will be 20' x 17' x 4", has anyone ever poured something this large out of 80lb bags? I estimate around 200 bags. I have done smaller 8' x 8' slabs without much difficulty. Any thoughts? Tips?


Yes, in fact, I poured 5 pallets of 80# and 1 pallet of mortar. I cheated though and used a gas mixer. But I can now mix on average 80-100# in a wheelbarrow in 3 minutes or less. With out even breaking a sweat!! AND (Without slump). I have that down to a science. Have at it:thumbsup:


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> I've given it some thought, this can be done, You will need 104 day laborers (easily found at the local home center in any of the sanctuary cities), 104 cement mixing pans, 104 mixing tools, 104 5 gallon buckets and a coach's whistle. The extra 4 on every thing is back up just in case of a problem. You line up the laborers outside, each with 2 bags of concrete, a mixing pan, a mixing tool and a 5 gallon bucket. You fill all the 5 gallon buckets with water, when that's done and everybody is in their places and ready to go you blow your whistle and they all begin mixing 2 bags of concrete each. When they are finished mixing they pour the concrete into the buckets, form a bucket brigade in both directions and move the concrete inside and return the empty buckets back to be filled and returned again. You then return all the buckets, mixing pans and mixing tools to the home center for a refund, give the laborers $5 each and a bag of peanuts as agreed upon, DONE.:whistling
> 
> Obviously I'm kidding, but I can't think of any good way other than pump it, chutes, wheel barrows or using the bobcats as already suggested.


 
You are a genius!:clap:


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## mrghm (Nov 19, 2006)

might be all done by now, but if not you should use one of these. or use a crane bucket on a telehandler.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

Yeah, give us a follow up. What Happened with the SLAB?


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## RLGC (Mar 4, 2007)

I paid about 800.00 5 years ago, 1000.00 don't sound bad. I called a local concrete company in North Jersey. They said to call this female. I don't think I should use her real name, lets say Sandy. I called and she was out the next day by her self with her truck and trailer. She was not bad looking and had a decent body. Well, she put on her work gloves and started tossing those hoses around like nothing. Cement truck got there and we busted out several sono tubes and about 80' of footings in less than 2 hours. Set up and cleanup took her longer than the pour. The advantage she had is being the sap that most of us are when it comes to woman we wind up offering to help her along. But in the end it was a pleasant experience. We would have had to kill ourselves with wheelbarrows. The trick is figuring the cost in your price before hand.


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