# Do it yourself h.v.a.c.



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

I am a certified duct designer and sheetmetal mechanic expanding my business to a do it yourself h.v.a.c. service.We design it,fabricate it,order everything you need and you install it.Has anybody heard of this before.
[email protected]


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

And I presume you know in the this would still require a licensed tech to complete the install, correct?


----------



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

*do it yourself h.v.a.c.*

The gas,refrigerant and electrical.At least thats what it is in Canada.The ductwork is open to install yourself.My website will say we recommend hiring a profesional to install the gas,refrigerant and all electrical connections.But ultimataly it is up to the customer to do whatever.After I provide the materials it is up to them to do what is right or wrong.Hopefully they do what is right.


----------



## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

yeh, but that gives the HO the wrong idea. It makes them think they are a pro and we all know what happens then. It may be legal there, but not here. Furthermore I would not want the responsibility of liability should they screw up.


----------



## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Are you prepared for all the complaints when the client doesn't install the equipment correctly. We all are guilty of this. We buy something from Home Depot (for example) install the equipment which doesn't operate like it should, return it, claiming that it's a piece of junk. However, had we actually fully read the instructions (comprehending them as well), we find that it is us who were the dumbasses.

You seem like a bright guy, and I am sure you have a grip on your plan. I just thought that I would bring this potential occurance.


----------



## briandurussel (Jan 14, 2008)

*Wow*

That is a very bad idea. Some one could get killed, that is why we make what we do and go to school for the length of time we do. All it takes is one little mistake and some one could get seriosly injured or killed, and worse if some one f****** up and hurt a kid.  What are ya thinkin? This is not some kid on line trying to stir the roost is it?

That is one of the most crazy a$$ ideas Ive heard in a long time, give the customer confidence in something they may have no idea about. It is exactly like giving a two year old a lit cutting torch.

DUMB A## IDEA

RETHINK IT OVER, Even if you are in Canada.


----------



## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

briandurussel said:


> That is a very bad idea. Some one could get killed, that is why we make what we do and go to school for the length of time we do. All it takes is one little mistake and some one could get seriosly injured or killed, and worse if some one f****** up and hurt a kid.  What are ya thinkin? This is not some kid on line trying to stir the roost is it?
> 
> That is one of the most crazy a$$ ideas Ive heard in a long time, give the customer confidence in something they may have no idea about. It is exactly like giving a two year old a lit cutting torch.
> 
> ...


 
I agree. The answer is "NO". For two reasons:

1) Customer will sue you, ask for return for their money back, and pay for damages, etc.

2) HVAC has been 100 years history, and NOBODY has ever done crazy/stupid business thing/idea like that, so should you too!..What make your business concept so difference from the rest?


Think carefully about doing it... before opening a can of worms for yourself.


----------



## briandurussel (Jan 14, 2008)

*Repost*

Heard of someone doing the same thing in the states, the customer was confident-intelligent-him and his wife both College grads, 3 kids all sharp.

Well the guy put in a water tank and plugged the relief, now this guy was sharp it was just a simple mistake.

He blew a tunnel through his 1st floor, 2nd floor, and it ended up in his attic.
If his daughters would have been home it would have instantly killed them.

Please Dont go there!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

*do it yourself h.v.a.c.*

I thank you for all the comments well at least most of them.All I am selling is a design and the sheet metal.Not the equipment,for two reasons,a wholesaler wont sell equipment to someone if they are just going to pass it on and 2, I dont want to be held liable for for the equipment being installed wrong.I agree with the fact that someone can blow themselves up by not installing naturalgas products properly and electrical installs should be done by a qualified professional as well as refrigerant.I wont sell a furnace,air conditioner or hrv or any equipment,only the design and sheet metal.Have a look at ductworks.net.I hate promoting someone elses business but tell me what you think of their business.My business is still up in the air so every comment helps,unless your an ass and call me a dumb ass.


----------



## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Business concept is new. You can do it... but must requires every buyer needs to register names on your website first, then their contractor must submit their certification/license # to submit order/invoice online, and also must you verify their contractor status to make sure they don't do the install by themself, etc. 

If they comply, u can sell them online. No selling/shipping if not complied.


----------



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

*do it yourself h.v.a.c.*

Do you need a liscence to install sheet metal in the states.I can go down to home depot and buy everything I need to install a duct system.


----------



## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

air design said:


> Do you need a liscence to install sheet metal in the states.I can go down to home depot and buy everything I need to install a duct system.


 You can also buy all the materials to print money too, but it is not legal


----------



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

*do it yourself h.v.a.c.*

So i guess if someone goes into a sheet metal shop and ask for a peice of duct and an offset they will tell him they cannot sell it to him because he is not a liscenced sheet metal mechanic and until you bring in proof that a liscenced sheet metal worker is going to install it we cannot sell it to you.Ridiculous


----------



## westernhvac (May 26, 2008)

Dude,
I've got a great idea. I am going to sell all of the pieces to make a car. Anyone can do it and I will give them the instructions for free. After they have driven it for a few years they can sell it to anyone they like. Who cares if there are no airbags, the brakes aren't quite right and there is an exhaust leak in the passenger compartment.

Ductwork and other mechanical systems go into a home. It might just be a house for the people that install your ductwork and they might not give a damn.

It seems like a a pretty bad idea to me, but then again, I know of HVAC companies that care just about as much as a house flipper or a slumlord.


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

I believe many posters are misunderstanding what you are doing and the legality of it and the legality of what you are NOT selling.

I understand your idea as simply taking a home and designing the ductwork for it and instructing folks on how to DIY.

while the idea makes some sense, I believe your market would be extremely limited. Mos A/C installers want to install any needed ductwork as well. After all, it is money out of their pocket into yours for this business.

Now, how are you going to determine duct sizing without perfroming the neccessary calcs (manual D I believe) and how do you have any idea what these folks actually need until somebody does other calcs (manual J I think) to determine how big of an A/C unit is needed and how large of a furnace is needed.

On top of that, tin work is not as easy as some make it out to be. Most folks can throw up some ductwork but it does take some skill to do it well. It also is a lot easier with a few specialty tools. Are you selling or renting or loaning those tools as well?

SO, it's not that I have a problem with the business in general, it's just that I don't believe you will have enough business to make some money and I believe a lot of the customers are not going to be happy with their own work and you know what that means don't you?

It means you screwed something up, even if you didn;t really.


----------



## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

*hvac-the last frontier*

i'm glad to hear about this. Does anyone remember when you couldn't buy electrical or plumbing supplies without some phony license?

Good luck with this endeavor.


----------



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

*do it yourself h.v.a.c.*

I am not saying I am going to do this it is just an idea.I wanted to get some opinions and go from there.I understand what everyone is saying and yes sheet metal is a trade and cant be learned in a day.I am thinking of just sticking with the duct designs.But if someone askes me to make some ductwork I am not going to say no i am just going to tell them it should be installed by a certified professional.I have no control over what people do in their own homes but sheet metal is my trade and if there is work out there to be done I am going to do it.All I can do is advise people to do what is right.Thanks for all the input i appreciate it.


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

I just see a problem in designing a duct system without integrating the actual HVAC system that will be installed. What this means is you need to be designing for the installer of the HVAC system and not the homeowner.

as to selling to a self install without the proper coordination, you are setting yourself up for implied fitness warranties when the system does not operate properly.

As I am sure you know, HVAC systems are not simply; ductwork, air handler, a/c system. heat source.

they are all part of an entire hvac system and not being able to consider any part of such a system in the design of the others may cause the system to not operate as desired.

If you believe it isn't, draw me a qucik design for a 1600 sq ft house with 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. Single story crawlspace foundation. Installing Split system A/C and LP heat.

Need more? I will provide anything about the structure but absolutely nothing about the possible equipment.

Can you design a duct system that will work properly with only that info?


How about engineering a complete system with specs for the equipment spec'd as well. At least that way, if the HO deviates and installs equipment outside of the spec, you have a defendable position.


----------



## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

I am not an HVAC man, but dont you have to calculate flow rates? What about if you have to make turns? How does that effect flow? can these things be done from blueprints?


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

air design said:


> Do you need a liscence to install sheet metal in the states.I can go down to home depot and buy everything I need to install a duct system.


In NJ any ass-ole can be a tin knocker, ya just need $25 for a contractors license.


----------



## Sportbilly (Oct 4, 2006)

Not just that, but to fabricate the ductwork without setting eyeballs on the framing is a can of worms I wouldn't want anything to do with. 

I'd never give a guy a bunch of pre-bent pipe to wire his loft without actually being there to put a tape on the walls to verify the measurements. Asking for trouble giving him anything in the first place, since the guy he hires to pulls the wire is going to be hacked off that the j-boxes face the wrong way, and the pipes are going to be halfway out of the connectors, etc etc... 

I realise it's a slightly incorrect analogy, but whatever qualified person has to complete the installation is going to charge double just for the PITA factor


----------



## hf05 (Mar 14, 2006)

actually in ontario you do require i believe its a min 2 yr apprentice papers to install ductwork. call tssa.


----------



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

*do it yourself h.v.a.c.*



USP45 said:


> I am not an HVAC man, but dont you have to calculate flow rates? What about if you have to make turns? How does that effect flow? can these things be done from blueprints?


All my designs are done using wrightsoft universal f280 which I am geussing is the canadian version of manual j an d.And yes I need to know what the furnace and a/c unit make and model is going to be used before I can do anything so I can get the proper btuh ratings and airflows static pressure etc.I also have to factor what type of coil is going to be used so i get the proper pressure drop and it will fit in the plenum.There is even more to a design then that but I could be out here all day explaining it to you.The bottom line is if they can't get me all the proper info that I need to do a proper design then I don't do it.


----------



## hf05 (Mar 14, 2006)

Sorry, i'll apologize first!! After your last post i just can't take anymore! Are u [email protected]#ked!! Or just lazy and would rather ,for an example.. make 200$ by telling someone how to do it or 2000$ by doing it.Furthermore this trade is what i do and why would anyone want to promote this retarted idea when its jobs like ductwork that put food on the table, not that this would ever fly!!! what are u going to do,, rent them all the sheet metal tools and have a 24 hr hot line.... sorry again i'm not really a prick... BAD IDEA!!! mike


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Most of my HVAC supply houses will prefabricate ductboard duct, offsets, reducers, and turns with the turning vanes installed if I want them to. I'm not sure how this is any different, save for the fact that the intended customer won't really know for sure what he needs.


----------



## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

hf05 said:


> Sorry, i'll apologize first!! After your last post i just can't take anymore! Are u [email protected]#ked!! Or just lazy and would rather ,for an example.. make 200$ by telling someone how to do it or 2000$ by doing it.Furthermore this trade is what i do and why would anyone want to promote this retarted idea when its jobs like ductwork that put food on the table, not that this would ever fly!!! what are u going to do,, rent them all the sheet metal tools and have a 24 hr hot line.... sorry again i'm not really a prick... BAD IDEA!!! mike


but how do you _really_ feel?:w00t:


----------



## hf05 (Mar 14, 2006)

If costumers are going into a supply house for fittings,they obviously have a little knowledge,how do i know this, because they are at a supply house and not HOME DEPOT !! Plus they probably don't have a computer print out of what they need!! really , maybe re read the original post


----------



## air design (Mar 9, 2008)

*do it yourself h.v.a.c.*

You know,there is a way to talk to people and a way not to talk to people.You obviously dont know how to talk to people in a civil manner.All i wanted was a few opinions and you come out here and call me f$%*ed,Well go f%*k yourself.I am sick and tired of you ignorant ass$%*es talking to people like that.I will not come out on this forum again because of that reason.Mabey the directors of this forum should keep an eye on this forum so that people can actually enjoy their time out here.Dont waste your time responding to this because I wont respond back.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Ok...this has exhausted all reason. I am sorry you feel as you do (OP), but I am with the majority....DIY'ers trying to do their own hvac is just not something I would recommend...ever. 

That said, I did my own, but I am not a weekend warrior. I even own the neat little gadget that cuts the round holes in a plenum for the start collars......and I will do my new home myself as well...following the advice of my hvac contractor. 

Anyway, thread closed.


----------

