# Did he Quit?



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Well I've got this fellow who's been working "with" me for about a year now. Technically he's a sub-contractor.

From time to time he acts like a twelve year old. He's not a carpenter, maybe first year apprentice level.

So today he gets upset about a small thing realy, and tonight he called a fellow employee to tell me he's not coming in tomorrow.

So now I'm a man short on site, and he can't call me himself? He's not answering his phone, and I'm getting more pixxed off by the minute.

So would you consider this as him quitting, or should I just tell him "guess what, I can get 10 guys who would love this job" Trust me, he's well paid.

Some people never grow up, and I'm actually tired of dealing with it.

Your advice please. Thanks, John


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

If you're fed up with him, and he doesn't shop up, consider him history.

If he shows up, tell him he's been replaced and that he needs to leave.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Don't assume he has quit until you hear it from him. Preferably get it in writing. Now if you want to fire him...


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

If he didn't tell you directly, it's hearsay.

Sounds like a guy "looking to get fired" for the unemployment benefits to me.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Good points from all, thanks. 

I suppose in a general sense, I'm tired of the unproffesionalism from him. As we all know, good help is hard to find. 

Fact is, I could replace him with someone better right now. If he doesn't take his job seriously, why should I be worried about him? Being a softy here I think, and have learned that will hurt me one way or another.

No UI for him, he's a sub.

Sorry for the rant, I'm sure I'll have my answer tomorrow, one way or the other. And my perspective will be clearer in the morning.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Move on


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

> Technically he's a sub-contractor.


Care to clarify? What does your subcontract agreement says? You two have a written agreement, right?



> And my perspective will be clearer in the morning.


Actually, the government will be happy to clarify it for you both , when he (hopefully) goes to make his EI claim.

Mark


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## CNCconstruction (Apr 3, 2009)

Not sure how it is in other states but here the person has to not show up for 3 work days and have 3 write ups from 2 people in management or owner and management. after that it is an automatic quit. but here even if you quit he can still get UI here just has to wait a penalty period


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

katoman said:


> Good points from all, thanks.
> 
> I suppose in a general sense, I'm tired of the unproffesionalism from him. As we all know, good help is hard to find.
> 
> ...


No E.I. if you're fired, either.

I say be gone with him.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

I'm with Mark on this one.

It sounds like you are an illegal employer. From your description, he's an employee but you call him a sub. I assume this is because you aren't withholding taxes nor are you paying the required employment taxes. 

If this is the case, he has you over the barrel. He can apply for UI, they will come after you for unpaid taxes and probably fine you. They will check your books for the past 10 years or so, make a bunch of assumptions about how much you have cheated, add in a bunch of penalties and interest, then give you a bill of far more than you can pay. 

If you really are calling your employees subs, they know you're a cheater, a scofflaw, and a crook. You've given them the ammunition they can use to screw you.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

thom said:


> From your description, he's an employee but you call him a sub. I assume this is because you aren't withholding taxes nor are you paying the required employment taxes.
> 
> If this is the case, he has you over the barrel. He can apply for UI, they will come after you for unpaid taxes and probably fine you. They will check your books for the past 10 years or so, make a bunch of assumptions about how much you have cheated, add in a bunch of penalties and interest, then give you a bill of far more than you can pay.


Thom makes the same assumption I did above. The IRS has a series of questions that help determine "employee vs: subcontractor"

You need to handle this situation carefully.

It would be in your best interest to check with your CPA or attorney about the status that might be awarded this person.

I'm sure someone here can find a link to those series of questions. Maybe this will clarify this a little better.

Be careful with this.


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## cbrew (Feb 16, 2010)

In this market there are ten people waiting to take his job. If he is that much trouble let him go.

Utah stair builder


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## Taylor8 (Feb 17, 2010)

I've had a number of requests by employees to work as "sub-contractors", my answer to the question will always be no. Not only will you eventually run into problems with the CRA, but if he is ever hurt on the job WorkSafe will review his case, and determine he was an employee who you didn't have insurance for.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

None of my sub contractors report to me on an hourly/daily basis.I call them,they look at the job,tell me when it will be done and how much and then they do it.
Someone that works for you 8-4 M-F is not a sub.No way,no how....Period.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

katoman said:


> Good points from all, thanks.
> 
> I suppose in a general sense, I'm tired of the unproffesionalism from him. As we all know, good help is hard to find.
> 
> ...



I think you've already got your answer right here. You'll both more than likely see things differently tomorrow.


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

Down here (at least 10 years ago so it may have changed) 3 days with no show and no word is "job abandonment" So let him sulk for three days then report it to your labor board as whatever version you guys have of job abandonment. No unemployment for you sucker if he was an employee and breach of contract if he was a sub for you.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

JumboJack said:


> None of my sub contractors report to me on an hourly/daily basis.I call them,they look at the job,tell me when it will be done and how much and then they do it.
> Someone that works for you 8-4 M-F is not a sub.No way,no how....Period.


Actually, I worked as a sub (technically Sub-Sub) for a couple months last year. I was paid piecework for putting on hardie. 

He can be a sub, but you must pay his WC. He's required to pay his own taxes. I was required to register for HST after 30k in a year, and had to charge charge it when I put in for my pay.

I got so screwed on that job though. I didn't know that the GC had to pay my WC. He charged it to us. And kept the 10% holdback from the job. He owes me a little money now, And owes my friend (who was a foreman on his job and worked for him for longer) thousands. We go to court june 10th.

Live and learn I guess.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

you can call them a sub as long as they have their own business and pay their taxes on their own. but you are usually stuck paying their WC. as long as they don't work for you all year, i forget the number of days/weeks is considered an employee. I don't like doing that but i see why guys do it. usually the person getting paid like a sub can hide his income and cheat. while you have to be legit.

fire this guy. get someone else and hire him for real. IRS is really cracking down and it will continue to get worse for people paying employees as subs.


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## mnjconstruction (Oct 5, 2008)

the sub vs employee thing is a fine line. If your not familer with all the laws you need to get educated on the mannor. I myself have employees and I have subs. My employees work everyday 7-3:30. subs work on a needed basis per job. I have a plumber, electrician that I tend to use all the time. They give me a price and timeline for completion. I also have 1 carpenter that is a sub that does projects for me from time to time. I dont pay him by the hour and dont tell him what hours to work. Just give him job scope. when its done i check the job and pay him the qouted price. this guy is good and works fast and for a great price. He works for 4 or 5 different contractors threwout the year.

Just saying be careful.....


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

My 2 cents:

We have a blurb in our employee manual that if you don't show up for 2 days in a row, it's considered job abandonment and you're done. Also, if you're a no show without a call, it's strike one. Do it again and you could be fired. When it does happen, send a termination notice (letter) out to him to close the loop. 

If this was a true sub, and I didn't want to deal with him anymore, I'd mail him a letter saying his time with your company was over, and to call to discuss the total owed to date and how to get the check to him.

In my opinion, move on without him, but send a letter to close the loop.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Sorry for the late reply. I'll keep him working for now. My understanding according to Revenue Canada is that if both parties enter into a mutual contract, then he can be a sub. I won't set his hours, and it's job by job.

Like I said, he has everything any other company has, so all I need is the contract with him. Consider it done by Monday.

In simple terms, someone is allowed to have their own company and choose to work for one other company. Who can insist that you have to work for more than one? Five? Ten? One Hundred?

A comparison might be a company that only makes parts for GM. They don't need another customer.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

katoman said:


> Sorry for the late reply. I'll keep him working for now. My understanding according to Revenue Canada is that if both parties enter into a mutual contract, then he can be a sub. I won't set his hours, and it's job by job.
> 
> Like I said, he has everything any other company has, so all I need is the contract with him. Consider it done by Monday.
> 
> ...


If the "company" was one guy and he worked on GM's site, what do you think CRA would say?


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