# What If: Customer Cancels After work has begun (Within 3 days)



## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

I just received a down payment (50% of the job total) last night by CC through Square. The job was to begin this morning (Refinishing some furniture). The customer and her husband were in disagreement over doing this, and ultimately it seems she has the last word and let me know via email that they want to cancel altogether.

I have limited costs involved. Only the 2.5% I lost to Square, my time and gas to go pick up the furniture, and then again to go drop it off later today. I haven't bought any materials yet.

However, I know that a customer legally has 3 days to cancel a contract without any penalty. How does this apply in a situation where the work is to begin immediately? 

I could have swore I had a cancellation clause in my contract, it seems I do not. I am always updating it and I am glad this has happened so I can now make more additions addressing this. 

I have not seen a lawyer regarding this, just curious if you folks would pursue the small costs involved ($100)? Or because it is within 3 days I have no leg to stand on?

Thanks!


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Its reasonable that they pay for the 2.5% and your gas and time. Just be reasonable. But honestly, if they put up a fight at all on paying you that small of an amount (100 bucks) I would just move on and not waste my time. Chalk another one up to the school of hard knocks and move on.


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## wireless (Nov 2, 2006)

Does refinishing furniture fall under home remodel category? Do you have 3 days to cancel your cleaner order also?


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Like said just be honest about it, if they bulk at the 100 I would let it go and move on . Might be a blessing the did cancel. 

I kind of see this like take your truck to the shop, once they start it is a done deal one way or another.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

In California, the 3-Day Right To Cancel states that the customer has 3 day to cancel with NO OBLIGATION. That means, when the customer cancels within 3 business days they have NO OBLIGATION and they don't have to pay you one penny even if you finished the entire job. The worse part is when the customer cancels and you are in the middle of the job you can't just walk away. You have to put everything back together for free.

For the above reasons, we have our doubtful customers sign a 3-Day Waiver Of Right To Cancel, but this also has several limitations. Although, with this form we can usually convince the customer to pay us for the portion of work that was completed.

Another form we use when cancelling a job is called a Mutual Cancellation Agreement. When a customer cancels we tell the customer that we still have an open contract and both parties need to agree to the cancellation terms. While this may not be entirely true it gets the customers to sit down and negotiate cancellation terms. On the Mutual Cancellation Agreement are line items with amounts for portions of work completed. We try to be as fair as possible and most customers see that we are fair and they are more than willing to pay our asking price. We may not make a profit, but we don't always lose money.

The nice thing about the Mutual Cancellation Agreement is it has a clause that stops the customer with filing any type of complaints or lawsuits after they sign it. We can walk away clean and never have to worry about recourse i.e. as another contractor going to the job and starting crap.

I never worry about customers cancelling a job because it is a part of the numbers game. There will always be the customers who get cold feet and the highest percent of customers that cancel are due to the advice of relatives and friends who tell the customers they are getting ripped off even when these advisers don't have a clue about the scope of the work.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

wireless said:


> Does refinishing furniture fall under home remodel category? Do you have 3 days to cancel your cleaner order also?


Generally, a customer had three days to cancel any agreement that was consummated at the customer's home. That means it applies to vacuum cleaners, alarm systems, carpet cleaning and when a furniture re-finishing agreement is signed in the customer's home.

The 3-Day Right To Cancel is regulated by the Department Of Consumer's Affairs for all products and services and is only policed by the contractor's board.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Cost of doing business... the amount of time you spend trying to get that little back is wasted on getting the next one... you also leave the door open for them to change their mind or refer someone to you...


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

pcplumber said:


> In California, the 3-Day Right To Cancel states that the customer has 3 day to cancel with NO OBLIGATION. ...
> 
> For the above reasons, we have our doubtful customers sign a 3-Day Waiver Of Right To Cancel, but this also has several limitations. ....


In California, and I believe in most other jurisdictions, 3-day rights to cancel are absolute. Any money that a contractor spends on a job prior to that 3 days is completely at risk, and the contractor has no standing to do anything but take the loss. If you can sweet talk the owner into paying your costs, that's fine, but they can refuse if they'd like.

In California the 3-day right can be waived in certain repair situations, but for home improvement work, there is no way to waive it, period.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

CarpenterSFO said:


> In California the 3-day right can be waived in certain repair situations, but for home improvement work, there is no way to waive it, period.


It seems as though, in this situation, the 3-day right would not apply. Refinishing furniture is hardly home improvement. 

It makes sense to not include emergency or urgent repairs under the three day rule, otherwise, why start immediately? The whole point of the law is to make both parties wait so the consumer has the opportunity to reconsider. However, extending this from real-property to personal-property would be a real stretch. Has your court system made a ruling on this?


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

thom said:


> It seems as though, in this situation, the 3-day right would not apply. Refinishing furniture is hardly home improvement.
> 
> It makes sense to not include emergency or urgent repairs under the three day rule, otherwise, why start immediately? The whole point of the law is to make both parties wait so the consumer has the opportunity to reconsider. However, extending this from real-property to personal-property would be a real stretch. Has your court system made a ruling on this?




As already stated the 3 day rule applies to anything sold in the clients home. It is not specific to home improvement. It was put in place to ward off against high pressure sales people.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Just switch to not doing any work till 3 days after the contract is signed.


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## kfc510 (Feb 28, 2012)

Did you get the payment at the time of signing the contract? Or did you sign the contract earlier?


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

mrcharles said:


> As already stated the 3 day rule applies to anything sold in the clients home.


Would that then apply to an auto shop that towed the car away from the home? How about donations that are picked up? 

The furniture and the car are very much the same, both personal property, both picked up and removed to repair, both were the result of a call for service made by the consumer.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

thom said:


> Would that then apply to an auto shop that towed the car away from the home? How about donations that are picked up?
> 
> The furniture and the car are very much the same, both personal property, both picked up and removed to repair, both were the result of a call for service made by the consumer.



If the car repair person was walking door to door selling repair services than yes 3 day cooling off probably would take affect. 

Here is a basic grasp of the 3 day cooling off law.

http://www.usa.gov/topics/consumer/smart-shopping/home-shopping/3day-rule.shtml


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

thom said:


> Would that then apply to an auto shop that towed the car away from the home? How about donations that are picked up?
> 
> The furniture and the car are very much the same, both personal property, both picked up and removed to repair, both were the result of a call for service made by the consumer.


http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/legal_guides/k-6.shtml

It applies.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

heavy_d said:


> I just received a down payment (50% of the job total) last night by CC through Square. The job was to begin this morning (Refinishing some furniture). The customer and her husband were in disagreement over doing this, and ultimately it seems she has the last word and let me know via email that they want to cancel altogether.
> 
> I have limited costs involved. Only the 2.5% I lost to Square, my time and gas to go pick up the furniture, and then again to go drop it off later today. I haven't bought any materials yet.
> 
> ...


You're screwed. Refund them their money. You could try to get some cost recovery but legally it all needs to be returned to the client.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

It never hurts to ask for your 2.5%, shouldn't just assume they will be unwilling to agree to it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

This is why I don't take any money until I start.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

CarpenterSFO said:


> In California, and I believe in most other jurisdictions, 3-day rights to cancel are absolute. Any money that a contractor spends on a job prior to that 3 days is completely at risk, and the contractor has no standing to do anything but take the loss. If you can sweet talk the owner into paying your costs, that's fine, but they can refuse if they'd like.
> 
> In California the 3-day right can be waived in certain repair situations, but for home improvement work, there is no way to waive it, period.


So what do you do if you have to special order an item that is four weeks out in order to start the job? 

I feel so sorry for you guys that have to work in Cali.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> This is why I don't take any money until I start.


He probably should have sat on that money for 3 days and waited it out


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Spencer said:


> So what do you do if you have to special order an item that is four weeks out in order to start the job?
> 
> I feel so sorry for you guys that have to work in Cali.


Sign the contract, take the money, don't do a darn thing for three days and then order the cabinets. :whistling


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Spencer said:


> ...
> I feel so sorry for you guys that have to work in Cali.


This why Hoosier contractors must seal the deal in their permanent office as well, or else...



> Contracts and Purchases:
> Many Hoosiers mistakenly believe that they can legally cancel contracts or purchase decisions as long as they do
> it within three days of making an agreement. In most cases, that’s simply incorrect. Under Indiana law, a sale is
> usually considered final immediately. *However, occasionally there are exceptions.*
> ...


http://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/files/CPD_Fact_Sheet-Contracts_and_Purchases.pdf


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Spencer said:


> So what do you do if you have to special order an item that is four weeks out in order to start the job?
> 
> I feel so sorry for you guys that have to work in Cali.


No need to feel sorry for me. I've never been burnt nor do I lose money on jobs. One thing about this state is there's still boatloads of money here. It's tough if you come from another state and try to adjust to all the rules, but I evolved in the thick of it.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

From squares website


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Californiadecks said:


> No need to feel sorry for me. I've never been burnt nor do I lose money on jobs. One thing about this state is there's still boatloads of money here. It's tough if you come from another state and try to adjust to all the rules, but I evolved in the thick of it.


I would say it would be near impossible for someone like me to adjust. I hear guys like you and SFO talking about all the hoops you have to jump through and it is completely foreign to me. You guys have another whole trade just in knowing how to handle all the red tape. 

Glad there is boat loads there.

My little brother wanted to see the country and ended up in San Diego. He likes it a lot. He ended up a with a girlfriend out there so that is tieing him down. Haven't seen him in probably a year and a half. Hopefully hes gonna come home over Christmas.


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

Make a quick bill for :

your time & gas.

if they pay , great, if not, lesson learned.


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

kfc510 said:


> Did you get the payment at the time of signing the contract? Or did you sign the contract earlier?


I got half of the full payment at signing.

They were okay with the $100 bucks to me. Chump change yeah but it makes me feel better. Im glad to be free of these clients, however I am grateful for the two weeks of work they provided me.


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

I did not bother to check Square for refund details, as they had already sent me the money. They do next day payments to my account. I told her I would like to keep back $100 due to reasons already stated, and she agreed so I cut them a cheque for the payment minus $100. 

They renovated themselves out of money.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Spencer said:


> I would say it would be near impossible for someone like me to adjust. I hear guys like you and SFO talking about all the hoops you have to jump through and it is completely foreign to me. You guys have another whole trade just in knowing how to handle all the red tape.
> 
> Glad there is boat loads there.
> 
> My little brother wanted to see the country and ended up in San Diego. He likes it a lot. He ended up a with a girlfriend out there so that is tieing him down. Haven't seen him in probably a year and a half. Hopefully hes gonna come home over Christmas.


If you're reading this from California... Please Note:

Staring at your computer screen may cause Cancer... :laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> Generally, a customer had three days to cancel any agreement that was consummated at the customer's home. That means it applies to vacuum cleaners, alarm systems, carpet cleaning and when a furniture re-finishing agreement is signed in the customer's home.
> 
> The 3-Day Right To Cancel is regulated by the Department Of Consumer's Affairs for all products and services and is only policed by the contractor's board.


I thought you just drove through their garage door and waved your fist at them..


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

The entire purpose for the 3-Day Notice Of Right To Cancel has been twisted and screwed up since its inception.

As stated in previous posts its original purpose is to give customers a cooling off period after getting high-pressured by a door-to-door salesman and that was its only purpose. It was originally limited to homeowners.

When we used to go to court in the old days the first question a judge would ask was how contact with the customer was originated. If the sale was initiated by door-to-door canvassing then the seller lost virtually every case regardless of what transpired. When the customer called the contractor through the yellow pages or some other source the contractor had a leg to stand on.

Then, the court took it even further and went far beyond the original purpose for the 3-Day Notice To Cancel. You will find in the California Construction Law Manual a case where an apartment building owner sued a contractor and won the case because the judge said that the 3-Day Notice To Cancel gave the apartment owner the right to cancel because an apartment building is a dwelling. I disagree because I consider an apartment building to be a business and in this case the apartment owner did not live in the building. In that case the apartment building is a place of business for the apartment owner the same as would be his office.


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## ny_tradesman (Nov 11, 2014)

Should check out workhorse mobile if you're in the New York area- once you get a job through Workhorse you are guaranteed the work and payment is automatically deposited inh your account within 48 hours of finishing a job. It's all commercial work through their directory though, but the network is really starting to grow and can be a great resource. workhorsemobile.com is the site. You won't have to worry about this issue too much when you work through wh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Where was the contract signed? If it was in their home then the 3 day is legally bound. If they came to your shop and signed it then there is no 3 day right. The law was put in place to prevent high pressure in house sales.

Refinishing furniture is unlikely to be considered remodeling.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Leo G said:


> Where was the contract signed? If it was in their home then the 3 day is legally bound. If they came to your shop and signed it then there is no 3 day right. The law was put in place to prevent high pressure in house sales.
> 
> Refinishing furniture is unlikely to be considered remodeling.


It doesn't have to be remodeling to fall under the three day. And I don't think it has to be in the home either.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Leo G said:


> Where was the contract signed? If it was in their home then the 3 day is legally bound. If they came to your shop and signed it then there is no 3 day right. The law was put in place to prevent high pressure in house sales.
> 
> Refinishing furniture is unlikely to be considered remodeling.


In that case, there would not be a rescission period for purchasing a new car.


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## kfc510 (Feb 28, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Sign the contract, take the money, don't do a darn thing for three days and then order the cabinets. :whistling


Seriously. I mean, how often do you guys sign a contract and start work right away?

I'm not gonna say I never do that, but the usual situation is: sign the contract and I get the 10%/$1000 retainer so I can schedule you in a slot a month or two out at best, see you when I see you. I know people who have 6 months to a year of lead time before they have an open slot.

It's kind of a red flag to me when a sub can start immediately, frankly.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

kfc510 said:


> Seriously. I mean, how often do you guys sign a contract and start work right away?
> 
> I'm not gonna say I never do that, but the usual situation is: sign the contract and I get the 10%/$1000 retainer so I can schedule you in a slot a month or two out at best, see you when I see you. I know people who have 6 months to a year of lead time before they have an open slot.
> 
> It's kind of a red flag to me when a sub can start immediately, frankly.


Depends on the time of year and scope of work.

I usually have a few jobs going. During the jobs there is always some down time that allows for a quick turn around on a start date. Most of the time we are out two- three weeks Minimum.


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## 98crewcab (Oct 7, 2013)

We also have had a couple of them start next day. Most of them were clients that we already consulted with, and if we have a earlier completion of another job, and enough time to slip in a week long bath remodel, then we'd sign a contract and begin next day. Haven't been burned yet, but after this post, we may have to sit for those 3 days to cover our ass....


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

kfc510 said:


> Seriously. I mean, how often do you guys sign a contract and start work right away?
> 
> I'm not gonna say I never do that, but the usual situation is: sign the contract and I get the 10%/$1000 retainer so I can schedule you in a slot a month or two out at best, see you when I see you. I know people who have 6 months to a year of lead time before they have an open slot.
> 
> It's kind of a red flag to me when a sub can start immediately, frankly.


I see your point. I have only been in business a few months and still building a client base. I had just completed two weeks of work for this couple, and they wanted this third job done immediately, and I had nothing lined up. 

I'm currently building a coffered ceiling in my bedroom, because now I have no work this week.


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