# Habitat for Humanity



## erikthered (Nov 3, 2005)

I was asked to rough a house for them they said they would do the finish. The inspector that i use said walk away and don't look back. They are only trouble. I would really like to help out a needy family any feed back would be really helpful.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I was asked to rough one in the early 90's. I showed up with all the material that I'd normally use, and prepared to go to town. Instead, I wasn't permitted to put a phone and cable jack in each room (as is my normal custom) and I was only permitted to do switched recs in the LR and BR's and not do ceiling lights. Grrr. Top it off, 3 other electricians also showed up to ruff the same house. What gives? We all knew each other, so we worked it out. One built the service, the other two boxed it out and roped it in. All 3 of us cut in the rooms. I felt used, to say the least. I do donate a certain amount of cash to Habitat each year, but I still have hard feelings toward them. I hope someday that they can't find an electrician for one of their projects near me, and I can tell them why I won't help them. 

Your situation is a little different. They want you to ruff it, and (unqualified) other people to finish it. Hmmm. Who signed for the permit? Regardless, you'd be the only qualified person associated with that installation. You'll "own" any problem or hazard that results. "No, thanks", is what I'd say. Sounds like a potential recipie to get sued. You might consider donating some material or perhaps cash, and sleep a little better.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

mdshunk said:


> I wasn't permitted to put a phone and cable jack in each room (as is my normal custom) and I was only permitted to do switched recs in the LR and BR's and not do ceiling lights. .


I don't understand why you would have an issue with this? Their building affordable housing, every penny counts in these projects, you have to know that going into it didn't you?



mdshunk said:


> Grrr. Top it off, 3 other electricians also showed up to ruff the same house. What gives? We all knew each other, so we worked it out. One built the service, the other two boxed it out and roped it in. All 3 of us cut in the rooms. .


Again, I don't see the problem. These projects are akin to barn raising projects. Why would you care if you had 4 electricians on the project? The more guys you had the faster it got wired and the faster the family gets the house. I thought that would be a good thing?


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> I don't understand why you would have an issue with this? Their building affordable housing, every penny counts in these projects, you have to know that going into it didn't you?


In this case, they were all my pennies. I (intended to) provide everything; material and labor. Why should they care if I even wanted to wire it like a NASA control room. They weren't paying for it. 



Mike Finley said:


> Again, I don't see the problem. These projects are akin to barn raising projects. Why would you care if you had 4 electricians on the project? The more guys you had the faster it got wired and the faster the family gets the house. I thought that would be a good thing?


Yes, but I was told that I was going to be "the electrician". I know how these projects work in bigger cities, because you see them in action on TV. In rural America, their projects don't work that way. There's one diagonal across the road from my house that was built by them years back. It took most of a year. They drag on for months, with people picking away at them here and there. I ordered material and alloted the appropriate time in my schedule, giving this project priority over paying customers. 

In my opinion, they screwed me. If they had let me wire it in my usual high quality manner, and informed me that I was getting help from other EC's, I'd have wired every house they ever built free of charge from then to eternity. I felt "baited" into helping with the project. The other guys felt the same wa y, because they expressed that to me at the time; although they may not be typically as up tight as I am.


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## toddgotfish (Nov 21, 2005)

mdshunk said:


> although they may not be typically as up tight as I am.


now thats funny:cheesygri


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

mdshunk said:


> In this case, they were all my pennies. I (intended to) provide everything; material and labor. Why should they care if I even wanted to wire it like a NASA control room. They weren't paying for it.


Is that typical? I didn't realize that was how they did it, I assumed, maybe falsely that they supplied all the materials for these project?


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> Is that typical? I didn't realize that was how they did it, I assumed, maybe falsely that they supplied all the materials for these project?


You certainly would get that impression from what you watch on TV. It has been my observation locally that they take whatever they can get from wherever they can get it.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Sounds like a power trip thing.

_"We'll take all the help and support you can give.....but you'll do it *our* way. Even though you are the licensed professional."_


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

We have a Habitat store here in Denver. Anybody have one of those? I donate stuff to them every once in a great while. I guess they use some of it and they sell some of it to the public to raise money. They actually are getting so much stuff it seems that they are picky. I called them about some bathroom fixtures a pedestal sink and toilet and I think they said if it was white they couldn't take anymore.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Speedy Petey said:


> Sounds like a power trip thing.
> 
> _"We'll take all the help and support you can give.....but you'll do it *our* way. Even though you are the licensed professional."_


Right... I'm not a piece of meat. I have feelings too, you know? Call me....


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## sundogusa (Dec 4, 2005)

i have been doing Habitat homes since 1989. To date I have done 22 new or rehabs. There is only one house that I did not do. The organization that did it was politely asked not to help out anymore. I have an excellent relationship with all parties concerned. I will have one of my electricains install the service. After that I let the habitat guys rough the house. When they are finished I personally go out and inspect what was done, where the outlets & switches, etc are located.
If I find any problems, I have the habitat guys make the repairs, I re-inspect, then call the city inspector for a closing inspection.
Once trim out is done, I go out and check everything again. 
BTW This is my giving back to the community!


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

I can't say I'd be comfortable with that. I mean that is putting your name and responsibility on someone elses work. No matter how close you look at the job, are you 100% certain you looked at every little thing?

I get calls quite often; "I wired my new room. Would you come and look at it and have it inspected." 
I politely tell them "NO, I don't put my name on anyone elses work unless they work for me" (especially a carpenter or homeowner).


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Speedy Petey said:


> I I don't put my name on anyone elses work unless they work for me" (especially a carpenter or homeowner).


Do you think this is any different than a GC having to warranty a house being built using an electrical sub? If the wiring is F-uped doesn't the responsibility end with the GC? 

Actually how would that work? If the house burned down and it was the wiring, would the home owners insurance go after the GC first or the electrician, or would it be the homeowners insurance goes after the GC, the GC's insurance goes after the electricians? God, what a mess just thinking about it!


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## jbfan (Apr 1, 2004)

The few times I wanted to help as an EC I was truned down. Both areas stated that this had to be a paid EC. Thjis was due to the liability that can be assumed by doing the electrical for free. Now I just go help hang doors or something.


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## erikthered (Nov 3, 2005)

Thanks for all the feed back guys. I talked to someone who was the electrican on some of their other humanity projects. he said they are a good chapter as he puts it. So i took the job they are buying all the materials.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Mike Finley said:


> Do you think this is any different than a GC having to warranty a house being built using an electrical sub? If the wiring is F-uped doesn't the responsibility end with the GC?


It's still my name on the license, and I file for the inspection.


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## sundogusa (Dec 4, 2005)

Forgot to add. The 2 guys who usually do the wiring (I can tell when someone helps) are very qualified to do the wiring. One is a retired construction electrician and the other is a retired electronics genius. I'll update them on code items for the new code cycle. Sometimes the helpers are retired electrical inspectors! 
I was looking at the wiring on one house early saturday morning when theis guy shows up. He starts asking some elctrical questions so I answer. Then he starts to criticize the work, saying an outlet should be here and one should be here. I said no and explained my reasoning. He agreed. Well turns out the son of a  was an electrical inspector coming in to volunteer. He was from a different city. His final comment was, You wouldn't get away with that in my city. I said, Unless you can cite an NEC article that says different, I would too. Good day! And I turned and walked away


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## erikthered (Nov 3, 2005)

Your so right your name and your rep. is on every inspection. MY saying is if you think nobody cares just do something wrong. Then everyone cares. lol


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

> I said, Unless you can cite an NEC article that says different, I would too. Good day! And I turned and walked away


Better be careful. City's aren't required to go by NEC, and if they choose to they aren't required to go ONLY by NEC, they can modify at will, so you probably wouldn't get away with that in his city...especially now.:cheesygri


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## erikthered (Nov 3, 2005)

jproffer said:


> Better be careful. City's aren't required to go by NEC, and if they choose to they aren't required to go ONLY by NEC, they can modify at will, so you probably wouldn't get away with that in his city...especially now.:cheesygri


I hate when city inspectors try that then you just call the elect. enginer he can over ride any inspector in a bad situation?


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