# Hot mop showers vs waterproofing systems



## Floormasta78

i recently so a post on facebook . this shower was done using the hot mop technique . what is the big deal with this.. i HAVE NEVER DONE ONE. that is what waterproffing systems are for.. WHATS YOUR TAKE ON THIS TOPC ?


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## [email protected]

Ive never done a hot mop or even seen one done. Most people in this area dont even waterproof. Ive looked at 3 showers in the past month that failed due to water intrusion, all about 5-7 years old. I had been using redgard but am now moving into using nobleseal ts thanks to all the info on this site.


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## jarvis design

Isn't hot mopping a California thing? Never seen or heard of it any place but there. Kinda strange for a state that is so "healthy" and "green" isn't it? Lol


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## GO Remodeling

maybe hot mop is better where there are earthquakes? Never seen one in Illinois.


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## Floormasta78

From what I've seen is a Southern CALIFORNIA thing.. But i grew up in the waterproofing era, so this will never cross my mind. Even so, don't you still have to mud a pan in ?


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## Inner10

Looks pretty waterproof to me:


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## astor

Floormasta78 said:


> From what I've seen is a Southern CALIFORNIA thing.. But i grew up in the waterproofing era, so this will never cross my mind. Even so, don't you still have to mud a pan in ?


I have seen here in Central Texas a few trucks with "tar waterproofing".
Here is a opening catch phase from their website TexTar
_"The Ceramic Tile Institute, the single most reliable and trusted tile experts in the world, recommend the hot mop asphalt shower pan waterproofing method above all other methods such as pan liners or fiberglass." _ :laughing: don't know which claim to start with....I guess they seem not to know anything about single sheet membranes....


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## skyhook

Hot mopped shower pans were the standard in the industry before the others came along. It almost seems to be a lost art now, except in the custom home industry and were a leakproof, waterproof pan is nessesary. 
I've never done a Shuster, Redgard or any of the others because I refuse to compromise on quality.
See my photos for more info.


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## skyhook

astor said:


> _"The Ceramic Tile Institute, the single most reliable and trusted tile experts in the world, recommend the hot mop asphalt shower pan waterproofing method above all other methods such as pan liners or fiberglass." _ :laughing: *don't know which claim to start with....I guess they seem not to know anything about single sheet membranes...*.


What's to know? Re: single sheet membranes all leak eventually.:laughing:
I would trust "The Ceramic Tile Institute, the single most reliable and trusted tile experts in the world" over your word anyday.


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## skyhook

astor said:


> _*The Ceramic Tile Institute,* the single most reliable and trusted tile experts in the world, recommend the hot mop asphalt shower pan waterproofing method above all other methods such as pan liners or fiberglass." _ :laughing: don't know which claim to start with....*I guess they seem not to know anything about single sheet membranes...*.


So we should trust you instead of *The Ceramic Tile Institute*, the single most reliable and trusted tile experts in the world, recommend the hot mop asphalt shower pan waterproofing method above all other methods. :laughing:


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## GO Remodeling

check out you tube video by Ojeda Waterproofing. How do the weep holes not get clogged with asphalt? 

The mortar bed goes on top of the hot mop like a pvc liner.


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## tubtime

Inner10 said:


> Looks pretty waterproof to me:


never seen this where im at, looks like its very popular from the size of that fleet .....:whistling


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## ohiohomedoctor

Sort of seems pointles too me with so many better options available now. The entire concept of addressing waterproofing below the substrate is the main reason for bathroom remodels today. Keep up the great work pepito..


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## Floormasta78

So after everything you still have to mud .. Hot mop takes more time , doesn't ? .. 

Pvc and mud, waterproof and tile... Done ! 

We as professionals have to be up to date with the latest and most innovative technologies...


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## [email protected]

I preslope, pan liner, mud. Does anyone use cloraloy pan liner from noble? I want to try it because of how thin it is but really cant justify the price. My supplier only sells by the roll.


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## skyhook

olzo55 said:


> How do the weep holes not get clogged with asphalt?


Don't mop the weep holes.



ohiohomedoctor said:


> Sort of seems pointles too me with so many better options available now. The entire concept of addressing waterproofing below the substrate is the main reason for bathroom remodels today. Keep up the great work pepito..


When you understand the tile and waterproofing concept, you will see why hot mopped is better, grasshopper.



Floormasta78 said:


> So after everything you still have to mud .. Hot mop takes more time , doesn't ? ..
> 
> We as professionals have to be up to date with the latest and most innovative technologies...


Lol. Hot mopping takes less time than waiting for that silly glue to dry.
I take it you never served an apprenticeship or had any formal education in the construction industry.


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## Tech Dawg

I've torn out 2 hot mopped showers that failed. Don't know why because I didn't have the time to inspect and learn the system. I found it strange to see these in my area.
All I know is the sub floor was sponged out and a complete mess. It could've been wanna-be hacks that did it but either way, I wasn't impressed.


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## KennMacMoragh

skyhook said:


> What's to know? Re: single sheet membranes all leak eventually.:laughing:


Can you explain how you know this or where you've seen it?


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## GO Remodeling

Really, any system installed right works. After having the plumber go back so many times to do preslopes, my GC's let me install the liners. Nobles the first choice for underbed liner systems, topper membranes are Schluter or Noble. I've never done liquids as I don't trust them yet. Next stop will be foam pans.

I get that you don't clog the weep holes with asphalt but the drain isn't very wide near the screw holes so you get maybe 1/4" for asphalt to stick to. Seems like that would be a weak point. Also, the corners must have multiple layers of asphalt build out. All I know about hot mop is what I see on the video. Maybe you could explain more why you think it's better. Why is it mostly a California thing?


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## aptpupil

Hot mop is a Southern California thing in my experience. I don't see anything wrong with it, but there seem to be other methods that will work just as well, too. Lots of ways to skin a cat.


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## skyhook

JazMan said:


> That's about as a ridiculous statement as we'll hear defending hot tar.
> 
> As i said before, "some people don't know and don't know that they don't know".
> 
> Hot tar works fine but it does not compare to a shower where the waterproofing is on the surface. No chance for the deck mud to get wet, among other benefits. Surface sheet membrane like Kerdi is more tedious and so takes more time and costs more, but well worth it.
> 
> Jaz


Obviousy, you know less than the rudiments of custom tile and shower building. 
But go ahead, re-invent the wheel. More work for us craftsmen later when your system fails.


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## Floormasta78

Systems are there to also keep up with new products, tile.. Right now we are discussing the right procedures to install a 1/4 inch porcelain tile with a mesh backing.. I bet you didn't know about that.. But you keep roofing ahead in showers.. 

Lol


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## skyhook

Floormasta78 said:


> Systems are there to also keep up with new products, tile.. Right now we are discussing the right procedures to install a 1/4 inch porcelain tile with a mesh backing.. I bet you didn't know about that.. But you keep roofing ahead in showers..
> 
> Lol


Do you have xray eyes that allow you to peek into the lives of people on the internet? 
I sub out my tile work to craftsmen. They keep me abreast of the latest advancements and technologies. Meanwhile, keep learning from your mistakes.


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## MAULEMALL

JazMan said:


> Hot tar works fine but it does not compare to a shower where the waterproofing is on the surface. No chance for the deck mud to get wet, among other benefits. Surface sheet membrane like Kerdi is more tedious and so takes more time and costs more, but well worth it.
> 
> Jaz


For some reason I thought he was agreeing with you..:whistling


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## skyhook

> Originally Posted by JazMan >>
> Hot tar works fine but it does not compare to a shower where the waterproofing is on the surface. No chance for the deck mud to get wet, among other benefits. Surface sheet membrane like Kerdi is more tedious and so takes more time and costs more, but well worth it.





MAULEMALL said:


> For some reason I thought he was agreeing with you..:whistling


Another amatuer tile setter.


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## MAULEMALL

skyhook said:


> Another amatuer tile setter.


:laughing:

seriously... 

You having a bad day?


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## r4r&r

skyhook said:


> The difference is a Rolls Royce compared to a Yugo. Yours is the Yugo method. I'll stick with the tried and true, UNION method.


I broke the code. It's a union, non-union thing.


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## JazMan

It could be a union v non-union, or perhaps too much asphalt fumes?

Jaz


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## Floormasta78

its the fumes and tar in ears . wont listen to reason
:whistling


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## PrecisionFloors

skyhook said:


> Obviousy, you know less than the rudiments of custom tile and shower building.
> But go ahead, re-invent the wheel. More work for us craftsmen later when your system fails.


Seriously? You're making an ass of yourself for no apparent reason amongst some of the real craftsmen in this trade. Your arguments hold no weight. Explain to us how and why hot-mopping is a superior method. On your mark get set go.


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## tubtime

i have never seen this done before, very interesting. i know if a guy wanted to carry a pot of hot tar through my jobsite he wouldnt make it on the driveway...seems like alot of work.

i have no real fault with it, other then the mess potential 
a like the membrains, and euro products like kerdi, except the price.

i dont instal any of these myself, im not a tile pro, i sub it out


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## r4r&r

tubtime said:


> i have never seen this done before, very interesting. i know if a guy wanted to carry a pot of hot tar through my jobsite he wouldnt make it on the driveway...seems like alot of work.
> 
> i have no real fault with it, other then the mess potential
> a like the membrains, and euro products like kerdi, except the price.
> 
> i dont instal any of these myself, im not a tile pro, i sub it out


Well I can tell ya this much I did my first Kerdi shower a few moths ago and I felt pretty confident in my ability to do it within about 5 minutes. Hot mopping on the other hand there's no way I would even venture into that.


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## jarvis design

Hot mopping with tar makes me think about the dinosaurs! Dinosaurs make me think about unions. They had their time and place as well. I think the next time I do a client consultation I'll tell them they have two options:

Option A: install concrete board and mud bed then waterproof everything with either a sheet or liquid membrane (or use Wedi)
Or
Option B: do the "tried and true union method" of slapping on hot tar to waterproof.

Wonder which one they will choose???


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## GO Remodeling

Ok if hot mop is truly the one perfect method,why is it only a California thing? Why isn't it the "gold standard" for the rest of the country?


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## skyhook

JazMan said:


> It could be a union v non-union, or perhaps too much asphalt fumes?
> 
> Jaz





Floormasta78 said:


> its the fumes and tar in ears . wont listen to reason
> :whistling





PrecisionFloors said:


> Seriously? You're making an ass of yourself for no apparent reason amongst some of the real craftsmen in this trade. Your arguments hold no weight. Explain to us how and why hot-mopping is a superior method. On your mark get set go.





tubtime said:


> i have never seen this done before, very interesting. i know if a guy wanted to carry a pot of hot tar through my jobsite he wouldnt make it on the driveway...seems like alot of work.
> 
> i have no real fault with it, other then the mess potential
> a like the membrains, and euro products like kerdi, except the price.
> 
> i dont instal any of these myself, im not a tile pro, i sub it out





r4r&r said:


> Well I can tell ya this much I did my first Kerdi shower a few moths ago and I felt pretty confident in my ability to do it within about 5 minutes. Hot mopping on the other hand there's no way I would even venture into that.





jarvis design said:


> Hot mopping with tar makes me think about the dinosaurs! Dinosaurs make me think about unions. They had their time and place as well. I think the next time I do a client consultation I'll tell them they have two options:
> 
> Option A: install concrete board and mud bed then waterproof everything with either a sheet or liquid membrane (or use Wedi)
> Or
> Option B: do the "tried and true union method" of slapping on hot tar to waterproof.
> 
> Wonder which one they will choose???





olzo55 said:


> Ok if hot mop is truly the one perfect method,why is it only a California thing? Why isn't it the "gold standard" for the rest of the country?


Look at the title again. This thread proves one thing and one thing only. *Ignorance is bliss.​*


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## tubtime

that you serve a product that isnt really in demand outside of a small geographical area?:thumbsup:


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## skyhook

tubtime said:


> that you serve a product that isnt really in demand outside of a small geographical area?:thumbsup:


More like a small income bracket.


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## smeagol

Do you have to mesh/fabric the inside corners with the mop method?


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## PrecisionFloors

skyhook said:


> Look at the title again. This thread proves one thing and one thing only. Ignorance is bliss.


How about you stop speaking in code and just state facts. Oh wait....you don't have any to support your position. That's pretty much what this thread proves so far.


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## asevereid

smeagol said:


> Do you have to mesh/fabric the inside corners with the mop method?


All bickering aside.....Do you have to mesh/fabric the inside corners with the mop method?
Maybe some comparisons between the two methods?


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## skyhook

PrecisionFloors said:


> Seriously? You're making an ass of yourself for no apparent reason amongst some of the real craftsmen in this trade. Your arguments hold no weight. Explain to us how and why hot-mopping is a superior method. On your mark get set go.





PrecisionFloors said:


> How about you stop speaking in code and just state facts. Oh wait....you don't have any to support your position. That's pretty much what this thread proves so far.


Eat my shorts. Like I said already. Ignorance is bliss. I'm done. :laughing:


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## JazMan

For those that have never seen how a hot mop is done, go to YOU TUBE and type in hot mop showers. Then consider the method of tile installation you should use and how it's all gonna be done.

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...0.0.0.307651.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.

I'd rather have the waterproof membrane on the surface so nothing gets wet. 

Earlier someone jokingly said something about unions. There might be something to that, not necessarily unions, but if the methods were changed, there'd be hundreds of people who'd have to find other work. 

Example; I believe in Massachusetts, or maybe just Boston area, pans are still done with copper, it's in the code. The plumbers fight to keep the spec so they can get the big $$$. Only plumbers can build pans there. Here in Michigan I don't know of a plumber that builds pans correctly. Not that they don't know how, but because the building departments don't care how it's done, just that it's done. So, no pre-slope, no blocking, folds that stick out 1/2" or more etc. That's why I do completely waterproof, watertight & mold resistant showers, I like Kerdi. I can make Swiss Cheese waterproof with Kerdi. 

Jaz


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## EthanB

JazMan said:


> I can make Swiss Cheese waterproof with Kerdi.


That's just ridiculous. Everyone knows that dipping Swiss Cheese in hot tar is better.


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## tenon0774

I didn't know Kerdi and ditra were considered single sheet products?!?!

All the installations I have seen they have seams along the walls and up over the curbs!

Vinyl!

Period!

-Scott


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## tenon0774

JazMan said:


> For those that have never seen how a hot mop is done, go to YOU TUBE and type in hot mop showers. Then consider the method of tile installation you should use and how it's all gonna be done.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...0.0.0.307651.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.
> 
> I'd rather have the waterproof membrane on the surface so nothing gets wet.
> 
> Earlier someone jokingly said something about unions. There might be something to that, not necessarily unions, but if the methods were changed, there'd be hundreds of people who'd have to find other work.
> 
> Example; I believe in Massachusetts, or maybe just Boston area, pans are still done with copper, it's in the code. The plumbers fight to keep the spec so they can get the big $$$. Only plumbers can build pans there. Here in Michigan I don't know of a plumber that builds pans correctly. Not that they don't know how, but because the building departments don't care how it's done, just that it's done. So, no pre-slope, no blocking, folds that stick out 1/2" or more etc. That's why I do completely waterproof, watertight & mold resistant showers, I like Kerdi. I can make Swiss Cheese waterproof with Kerdi.
> 
> Jaz



Kerdi and Ditra and Wedi are not proven in my mind yet.

The reason vinyl gets such a bad rap is some people installing it "violate" the integrity of pan during backerboard installation, which is why the industry came out with the "magic red".


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## JazMan

> All the installations I have seen they have seams along the walls and up over the curbs!


Yes, and your point is.......?

If one did the traditional method correctly, with pre-slope and also mudded the walls, and applied a membrane on the walls too, you'd have a pretty good shower. But not many are done that way. 

People install CBU on the curbs and shower benches and tile over them. That's no good. Surface membrane makes everything watertight. Seams are no problem. Seams do not leak, they're overlapped about 2", water won't wick into Kerdi seams more than 1/4" at most.

Jaz


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## tenon0774

JazMan said:


> Yes, and your point is.......?
> 
> If one did the traditional method correctly, with pre-slope and also mudded the walls, and applied a membrane on the walls too, you'd have a pretty good shower. But not many are done that way.
> 
> People install CBU on the curbs and shower benches and tile over them. That's no good. Surface membrane makes everything watertight. Seams are no problem. *Seams do not leak, they're overlapped about 2", water won't wick into Kerdi seams more than 1/4" at most.*
> 
> Jaz


I'm not here to tout the marvels off hot tar.

There are ways to install seats, and curbs with backer board without violating the 4-6" up the wall of the pan.

Any amount of seepage in this application is too much in my opinion.


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## tenon0774

JazMan said:


> Yes, and your point is.......?
> 
> If one did the traditional method correctly, with pre-slope and also mudded the walls, and applied a membrane on the walls too, you'd have a pretty good shower. But not many are done that way.
> 
> People install CBU on the curbs and shower benches and tile over them. That's no good. Surface membrane makes everything watertight. Seams are no problem. Seams do not leak, they're overlapped about 2", water won't wick into Kerdi seams more than 1/4" at most.
> 
> Jaz


My point is I don't have enough faith in the manufacturers in this day and age for a newer product such as this.
A seamless envelope of vinyl run 6" up the wall and folded over the outside of the curb is as close to seamless as were going to get.

And if I put a thread on this forum about trying to get a manufacturer to even admit the product has failed, let alone getting them to pony up material costs, this place would go nut with stories.

My point is sir...
I respectfully disagree

-Scott


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## JazMan

It's not possible for the product to fail. It's how it's installed, as with almost anything especially regular 40 mil pans. Many if not most are not installed correctly especially at the curb/jamb area. Plumbers slice and fold it all wrong and many leak within a short time. If the tile job is done well, you may not see any evidence of failure for years though.



> My point is I don't have enough faith in the manufacturers in this day and age for a newer product such as this.


Who said it's new? It's not new, been around for many years with millions of sq. ft. installed. It was developed because people were not installing showers using the old methods correctly. It cures that problem. But keep doing it the way you're comfy. 

Jaz


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## tenon0774

JazMan said:


> It's not possible for the product to fail. It's how it's installed, as with almost anything especially regular 40 mil pans. Many if not most are not installed correctly especially at the curb/jamb area. Plumbers slice and fold it all wrong and many leak within a short time. If the tile job is done well, you may not see any evidence of failure for years though.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said it's new? It's not new, been around for many years with millions of sq. ft. installed. It was developed because people were not installing showers using the old methods correctly. It cures that problem. But keep doing it the way you're comfy.
> 
> Jaz


Most ARE installed incorrectly.
I agree.

And I believe this has to do with a lack of care that certain individuals have.

This problem will not be corrected by a product that is easier to install.


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## PrecisionFloors

tenon0774 said:


> Most ARE installed incorrectly.
> I agree.
> 
> And I believe this has to do with a lack of care that certain individuals have.
> 
> This problem will not be corrected by a product that is easier to install.


Then your argument has nothing to do with product or method really. Actually using your logic, older more detail required methods would actually perform worse in an "average" mechanic's job...kind of our argument all along. Will a hot mop shower perform better than a liquid or sheet membrane system? If so how exactly? Detail it out and teach all of us something.


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## Floormasta78

Thank you for bringing up the subject and the question behind my reason for posting this topic...


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## essrmo

PrecisionFloors said:


> Will a hot mop shower perform better than a liquid or sheet membrane system? If so how exactly?* Detail it out and teach all of us something.*


in this day and age, all you need to do is google instead of critisizing others and waiting to be spoon fed.
http://brkelloggshowerpans.com/html/liner_vs_hot_mop.shtml


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## The Coastal Craftsman

May not be proven in your mind but world wide they are proven. Just because they are fairly new here it don't mean they ain't been used in other country's. I been using Kerdi, Wedi etc etc for over 12 years. They work well.


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## [email protected]

Im still waiting for some concrete evidence why hot mop is a superior install. The hot mop vs. liner link didnt. The cti field test didnt even say that hot mop was better, only that a single membrane liner requires being more careful.


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## GO Remodeling

Essrmo,

Maybe you didn't read the first 3 pages of this discussion. It's been pretty civil except when someone has asked for real facts concerning hot mop. Then facts are replaced with b.s. name calling. 

Your reference about hot mop is from a hot mop installer. Not too independent, eh? And the CTI article from 1985 is full of subjective "facts". Noble's liner has a lifetime warranty. That's a fact. What independent lab has tested hot mop? 

Why is hot mop more a California thing? Such a great system should be universally used don't you think? Can you or any other hot mop guy explain this mystery?


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## [email protected]

I googled hot mop vs. liner and couldnt find 1 forum or site recommending H.M. over liner except businesses that do H.M.ing. If a person wants to H.M. thats fine with me but I will stick with the tried and true nationwide method of liner and mud.


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## GO Remodeling

:surrender::surrender::surrender:


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## tubtime

skyhook said:


> Look at the title again. This thread proves one thing and one thing only. *Ignorance is bliss.​*


im glad your happy :clap:


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## tenon0774

*Re-read the thread*

My apologies gentleman.

...and the simple answer to the question is I have never used a hot mop system. 

I have always used I vinyl liner and deck mud.

As to the Kerdi, Schluter, and Wedi, I have only used parts of the system ONCE.

I was not thoroughly impressed with the Novaform curb some-one had purchased that I had to install.

Sorry to be partially responsible for hijacking the thread.

I got a little bent on the name calling in the thread and jumped right in without checking the depth of the pool.

- Scott


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## r4r&r

Well you're already calling in a separate guy to mop the pan why not another guy to tile the shower. If you work it right you could pay out the cost of the shower to your subs over 5 or 6 subs and a few weeks thereby extending your working capital on that job. Just sounds like good biz to me. :laughing:


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## essrmo

specialty trades like waterproofers are worth their weight in gold. multiple layers of asphalt saturated felt are welded together by hot asphalt (what a concept) then topped off by a thick coating of the same material. when cooled, inside corners remain flexible, ASTM felt seals itself around mechanical fasteners (firring nails or staples) and the durable topper holds water like a swimming pool and resists damage. 
just some of the reasons hot mopped shower pans are better than single sheet vinyl liners (imo).


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## asevereid

essrmo;. multiple layers of asphalt saturated felt are welded together by hot asphalt (what a concept) then topped off by a thick coating of the same material. when cooled said:


> Unbelievable....someone posted a legitimate response to the question.
> Way to go!


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## astor

essrmo said:


> specialty trades like waterproofers are worth their weight in gold. multiple layers of asphalt saturated felt are welded together by hot asphalt (what a concept) then topped off by a thick coating of the same material. when cooled, inside corners remain flexible, ASTM felt seals itself around mechanical fasteners (firring nails or staples) and the durable topper holds water _*like a swimming pool*_ and resists damage.
> just some of the reasons hot mopped shower pans are better than single sheet vinyl liners (imo).


Yeap, that is the reason why all the swimming pools are waterproofed with tar, even the Olympic ones!:laughing:


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## Calidecks

PrecisionFloors said:


> Actually quite a bit if you are a tile setter...so as a GC you call in a seperate setter to do the shower? :whistling


As a GC I call everybody to do the work. Especially the hot mop guy he's literally there 2 hours tops. The only thing I do in house is the carpentry work.


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## Tom Struble

well..apparently it was used for pools in the early 20th century


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## astor

Tom Struble said:


> well..apparently it was used for pools in the early 20th century


I wonder why they are not doing today?:whistling:whistling:whistling


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## Tom Struble

dunno:blink:maybe the same reason they don't make roads from single ply?:whistling


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## skyhook

astor said:


> I wonder why they are not doing today?:whistling:whistling:whistling


That's also the reason vinal liner pools are above ground. They all eventually fail and wind up at the dump.


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## skyhook

Tom Struble said:


> well..apparently it was used for pools in the early 20th century


Don't you have some bird houses to build?


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## Calidecks

skyhook said:


> Don't you have some bird houses to build?


Ill bet Strub could build a pretty badass birdhouse. Probably wouldn't leak either.


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## skyhook

astor said:


> Yeap, that is the reason why all the swimming pools are waterproofed with tar, even the Olympic ones!:laughing:


Ever wonder why single sheet liner experts don't flood test their pans? :laughing:


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## Tom Struble

oh..the great skyhook the only real contractor here


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## astor

skyhook said:


> Ever wonder why single sheet liner experts don't flood test their pans? :laughing:


who says so??? just ask flood crazyJohnFRWhipple!!!LOL!!! Look at this pic carefully, you will see a plug! Ready for a flood test!


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## skyhook

astor said:


> who says so??? just ask flood crazyJohnFRWhipple!!!LOL!!! Look at this pic carefully, you will see a plug! Ready for a flood test!


I'm not seeing any water in it. Must have leaked out overnight. :laughing:


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## astor

skyhook said:


> I'm not seeing any water in it. Must have leaked out overnight. :laughing:


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Calidecks

Southern Cal invented construction and it moved east from here.

I mean we produced the the late great Larry Haun didn't we?


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## Brian Peters

Californiadecks said:


> Southern Cal invented construction and it moved east from here.
> 
> I mean we produced the the late great Larry Haun didn't we?


He was born in Nebraska....


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## r4r&r

Last kerdi shower I did 24 hr flood test.


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## Calidecks

Brian Peters said:


> He was born in Nebraska....


He mastered the trade in the southern cal building boom, got his inspiration for earthquakes


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## Calidecks

I was born in Missouri but I've never built anything in Missouri


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## Brian Peters

You're right of course... I was born in Michigan, same thing...


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## skyhook

astor said:


> JohnFRWhipple


I have respect for John. He is interested in doing hot mopped pans but there where he lives, there are no hot mop shower pan installer crews in his area.
In that case, building your own 30# felt liner is done_ in house_ and any good roofer with a kettle can come in and mop it.


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## ee3

Plbg. Code calls out for a flood test ,rrguardless of what the pan is made from..
Almost all commercial work im involved with does. (Flood test.) never seen hot mop used in commercial work.


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## skyhook

ee3 said:


> Plbg. Code calls out for a flood test ,rrguardless of what the pan is made from..
> Almost all commercial work im involved with does. (Flood test.) never seen hot mop used in commercial work.


@ ee3, 
What kind of pans have you seen in commercial work?


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## ee3

PVC ,CPE,and all the various ANSI 118.10 surface applied are the norm.
Years ago lead,but that was coaded with a cold tar and in NY. City. 
Down in Austin TX. Theres a bit of fiberglass used.Copper still shows up in some spec,s in new england but not on the job. Hot Mop is a CA. Thing.


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## Calidecks

ee3 said:


> PVC ,CPE,and all the various ANSI 118.10 surface applied are the norm.
> Years ago lead,but that was coaded with a cold tar and in NY. City.
> Down in Austin TX. Theres a bit of fiberglass used.Copper still shows up in some spec,s in new england but not on the job. Hot Mop is a CA. Thing.


I know a guy who has a small kettle and that's all he does is hot mop showers he makes a killing.


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## astor

Californiadecks said:


> I know a guy who has a small kettle and that's all he does is hot mop showers he makes a killing.


Why don't get one and help him to make more killing?


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## MAULEMALL

Californiadecks said:


> I know a guy who has a small kettle and that's all he does is hot mop showers he makes a killing.


What does a keg of asphalt go for out there..


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## Calidecks

MAULEMALL said:


> What does a keg of asphalt go for out there..


Tree fiddy, actually I'm not sure Mall, but this being California ill bet it will be illegal to get in the near future.


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## skyhook

MAULEMALL said:


> What does a keg of asphalt go for out there..


$90 or more per plug, up from $25 a few years ago.


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## skyhook

ee3 said:


> Hot Mop is a CA. Thing.


Must be the earthquakes. Flexible as it is.


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## ee3

just like peanut brittle :thumbsup:


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## Calidecks

astor said:


> Why don't get one and help him to make more killing?


Because I make my killing building the house and/or bathroom. I just pass some of the kill to my hot mop guy.


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## essrmo

ee3 said:


> just like peanut brittle :thumbsup:


maybe in your neck of the woods.:laughing:


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## MAULEMALL

Californiadecks said:


> Tree fiddy, actually I'm not sure Mall, but this being California ill bet it will be illegal to get in the near future.


Good use of the treefiddy:thumbsup:


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## Calidecks

It was a cheap shot. :smartass:


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## MAULEMALL

Californiadecks said:


> It was a cheap shot. :smartass:


If it wasn't for cheap shots I would still be a virgin...:whistling


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## i2izzy

[email protected] said:


> I googled hot mop vs. liner and couldnt find 1 forum or site recommending H.M. over liner except businesses that do H.M.ing. If a person wants to H.M. thats fine with me but I will stick with the tried and true nationwide method of liner and mud.



In reality any method can fail it really depends on the installer. I've fixed many shower fails of both systems & its always come down to the installer having failed during the install. Hot Mops fail because they dry hard and crack way before their guarantee is up. Liners fail because they were not protected prior to install had small punctures or were cut wrong. Really only the old retired union guys insist on HM nowadays because that's what they were taught. I learned the HM early on but switched to liners because you don't breath any tar fumes to use it. If you go with Liners Never cut inside corners, allow a 8-12inch rise on the sides well above the 6" code & use Nobleseal around the drain flange. Paper the showers Hardibacker the walls Mud the floor. Once the mud is dry even though the liner is waterproofed & theres paper behind the hardibacker as an extra precaution I waterproof on top of the mud (which should have a pitch to the drain as well) and in all the seams. This way you have a double dose of protection.


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## Tile putter

Hot mopping has been the timeless standard for shower pan water proofing for 60 years.. nothing better. If you dont know why then why speak of it like its just a west coast thing. Pan liner , schluter , wedi systems are inferior. but the have big money puching them . none of them have sstood the test of time. Hot mops will last for decades if not reused. I E. demo then go over it. The tile setting trade is a specialized trade, with knowledge of all parts of intallation. DIY'ers and handymen dont get the subtrates and waterproofing right almost 100% of the time. jsut besase one can set tile dosent mean it a good job. and he will not be back to fix it..! gaurateed.!


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