# What do you use to strike the joints of natural stone?



## PoleBarnsNY (Jan 18, 2014)

I did 50 square feet of natural stone today. 

I used a paint brush dipped in water to strike the joints. 

It turned out nice. 

What do you use to strike the joints of natural stone? 

Do you hit the stone and or mortar joints with a wire brush once the mortar is dry? 

Should I seal the mortar with anything to protect it? It is outside.


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## S.U.M (Apr 17, 2013)

Pics please.


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## PoleBarnsNY (Jan 18, 2014)

Don't have any pictures sorry


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

I finish it with a mortar tamper. The only picture of such that I know of is in the book The Art Of The Stonemason by Ian Cramb.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Wood only. i pretty much always use wood to finish my joints. not trying to be rude but nothing in the world (well maybe sacks of money or threats of incredible violence to my family) could get me to finish my joints with a wet paint brush. Joints that are hit wet are bound to fail in a decade or less.

I will also use my slicker to tool the joints but the finishing is really done by beating the joints with a firm brush. Purists use a salmon brush, i just use anything with a stiff bristle, a nylon brush does a good job. The slicker goes at thumbprint hard, the brush a few minutes after.

For raised joints of course I have to use a wet finish with the steel tool


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

A piece of wood lath.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

What Type of mortar was used? We use root or a hard wood tree stick scratch joint after grout bagging and slicking. Then stiff horse hair to put final touch.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Horse hair is good. No comment about the grout bag, I've commented enough about them


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Old school sorry but I gotta keep the labor busy doing something. Grout bag separates men from boys in reference to natural stone veneers. Drill hopper grout guns serve a purpose in certain situations.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Again, I've commented enough on grout bags


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Loop handle wire brush, then horsehair final brush.

Now don't tell anybody I told ya :whistling


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I use that little brush for most styles that I do in one way or another especially rake out or flush. For ribbons and ridges I use it on the outside perimeters.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Loop handle wire brush, nice one. 

I have a project coming up where ill need to build a foundation that looks like an antique farmhouse. I might have to borrow that one!


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

I use hard wood dowels only. Then horse hair brush like some others have said.


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

superseal said:


> Loop handle wire brush, then horsehair final brush.
> 
> Now don't tell anybody I told ya :whistling


Same exact set up, I always pick some up in random hardware stores in the welding section. Don't point as much as I use to, that little brush was my go to. Then horsehair brush.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Ohteah said:


> Same exact set up, I always pick some up in random hardware stores in the welding section. Don't point as much as I use to, that little brush was my go to. Then horsehair brush.


Every time I come across them, I buy the whole rack 

I got a whole bucket full of them still new in the package because I keep thinking their going to stop making them :laughing:


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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)




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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dom-mas said:


> I will also use my slicker to tool the joints but the finishing is really done by beating the joints with a firm brush. Purists use a salmon brush, i just use anything with a stiff bristle, a nylon brush does a good job. The slicker goes at thumbprint hard, the brush a few minutes after.


That's how i do it too, except I use a tuck pointer to fill the joint.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dom-mas said:


> Again, I've commented enough on grout bags


Aren't those for cakes?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

stonecutter said:


> That's how i do it too, except I use a tuck pointer to fill the joint.


A slicker and tuckpointer are the same thing aren't they?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> A slicker and tuckpointer are the same thing aren't they?


A tuck pointer would be a slicker used in tuck pointing. :whistling


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

dom-mas said:


> A slicker and tuckpointer are the same thing aren't they?





Here is where regional differences come to play. Around here,a slicker is also referred to as a back filler,never heard it called a tuckpointer. Learn something new every day.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Where I'm from a slicker as a general rule has two sides sometimes different sizes much like a thumb jointer and no handle. Where as a tuck pointer has a handle and one edge/blade like a tooth pick trowel.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

heavyc said:


> Where I'm from a slicker as a general rule has two sides sometimes different sizes much like a thumb jointer and no handle. Where as a tuck pointer has a handle and one edge/blade like a tooth pick trowel.


Ditto


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

What you call a slicker, I call a jointer. A slicker to me has a handle and a narrow blade. There is no such thing in my vocabulary as a tuckpointer. tuckpointing is something very different to me than it is to Americans. I call tuckpointing repointing


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

We use old spoons, just don't tell my wife I take them from the drawer.........:whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> What you call a slicker, I call a jointer. A slicker to me has a handle and a narrow blade. There is no such thing in my vocabulary as a tuckpointer. tuckpointing is something very different to me than it is to Americans. I call tuckpointing repointing


I think most north Americans use tuck pointing and pointing/repointing interchangeably. When in reality I doubt most modern masons have actually done tuck pointing.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> I think most north Americans use tuck pointing and pointing/repointing interchangeably. When in reality I doubt most modern masons have actually done tuck pointing.


I would say if you've ever done toothing you are well aware of the use and need for tuck pointing referring to brick. Also if you've ever set precast caps/copping again you are well aware of tuck pointing practices. Also comes in handy for raking head and bed joints in precast when spec's deem mortar raked back a minimum of 3/4" to allow for caulking of said joints. Must be missing the language barrier.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dom-mas said:


> What you call a slicker, I call a jointer. A slicker to me has a handle and a narrow blade. There is no such thing in my vocabulary as a tuckpointer. tuckpointing is something very different to me than it is to Americans. I call tuckpointing repointing


Tuck pointer 









I actually used to call it a jointer when I first started out. I learned the term tuck pointing
later, and it makes more sense to me, seeing as how all pointing tools are 'jointers'. 

A slicker or jointer as I know it ( and what the manufacturers call it) has two opposing flat blades, convex, concave,barrel or grapevine to slick off a joint.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> I think most north Americans use tuck pointing and pointing/repointing interchangeably. When in reality I doubt most modern masons have actually done tuck pointing.


Do a lot of masonry work on the side?


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

heavyc said:


> Where I'm from a slicker as a general rule has two sides sometimes different sizes much like a thumb jointer and no handle. Where as a tuck pointer has a handle and one edge/blade like a tooth pick trowel.


Where are you working out of?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

stonecutter said:


> Tuck pointer
> View attachment 112775
> 
> 
> ...


That to me is a slicker. It's what it's called in Canada (every book I own and every store I've been in) and I believe the UK as well. We don't use the term tuckpointing. Some do but they use the American context, which we call re-pointing, or if it's done in new work just pointing (like if I was filling in after toothing, or filling in joints before jointing). 

Tuckpointing, in a British, hence Canadian, context as Inner points out has not been done by many modern masons. 

Most of our masonry terms are the English (British) terms, it seems like the American terms diverged quite a while ago, as another thread made obvious (don't even want to mention that one). It's like the gallon/pint divergence. Most Canadians now under the age of 55 probably use the American gallon when/if they talk about gallons, over 55 use British equivalents. It can get very confusing sometimes


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

stonecutter said:


> Tuck pointer
> View attachment 112775
> 
> 
> ...


Here in "Cheesehead Land" we call that a filler................


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

In France they call it "un langue du chat"...cat's tongue. In Quebec they call it un slicker


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

That tool with the handle I only use with a hawk. Slicker seems to be what it's called but I don't meet a whole lot of masons really. 

The double sided flat joiners are just flat joiners to me.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

stonecutter said:


> Where are you working out of?


Sandhills of N.C. American by birth Southern by Grace of God Ft.Bragg 22 years still counting. 10 years prior residential Pinehurst N.C. Former Golf Hall of Fame home place.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dom-mas said:


> That to me is a slicker. It's what it's called in Canada (every book I own and every store I've been in) and I believe the UK as well. We don't use the term tuckpointing. Some do but they use the American context, which we call re-pointing, or if it's done in new work just pointing (like if I was filling in after toothing, or filling in joints before jointing).
> 
> Tuckpointing, in a British, hence Canadian, context as Inner points out has not been done by many modern masons.
> 
> Most of our masonry terms are the English (British) terms, it seems like the American terms diverged quite a while ago, as another thread made obvious (don't even want to mention that one). It's like the gallon/pint divergence. Most Canadians now under the age of 55 probably use the American gallon when/if they talk about gallons, over 55 use British equivalents. It can get very confusing sometimes


Probably not as confusing as threads here sometimes.

Kraft and Marshalltown call them tuck pointers. But I don't say tuck pointing referring to the act of filling joints...that's always been pointing to me. I started using the term tuck pointer because nobody I knew what I meant when I said jointer or slicker. I have books too Sean, terms are suited to regions. I also have seen it referred to as a caulking trowel, so go figure.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

When I mention the books it's because most of my books are either written by Canadians or Brits. Can't think of any American books on masonry that I have. I did have modern masonry??? (I think he's american) when i was in school but i was poor and bought it with a firend, he kept it when we were done school


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Generally old school masons my father being one. With 55 years experience in Western N.Y. Union, Buffalo and Niagara Falls area always used slickers for inside corner joint finishing/slicking. Both cmu and brick masonry. Now a days the trade being what it is and that kind of craftsmanship being slowly but surely lost and or forgotten has changed the way inside corners are finished or tooled. In reference to brick we always place CJ's at inside corners. Cmu butt joints raked and caulked. Cmu inside corners done differently on almost every job some trowel finished smothered some half heartedly jointed and the proper ones seldom seen slicked. Most GC's use the inside corner as their pet peeve. Favorite item on most punch lists. All in my personal experiences.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

You ( and FJN) might appreciate some of the ones I downloaded in the past. Most where written between 1850-1920 really interesting reading...most of the info is still very relevant. Some if the info on portland was a bit fuzzy, being it was a fairly new product back then.

I have modern masonry in my library at home. I'm in miami now, I'll have to see what it says about tool terms in there.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Google Marshall town slickers if you've never seen one or want to correctly identify your tools. FYI


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

jomama said:


> Here in "Cheesehead Land" we call that a filler................




:thumbsup:


Around N.W. Indiana more often than not,it is called a back filler.


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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)

Tuckpointer here in tornado land...or el lingua in espanol.......

Your slicker is a jointer here but a stick, or a jbolt, a raker are all called a jointer around here.

Some of you guys would freak at the joint treatments here in residential work, only place you will see "slicked" joints are in commercial work.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

heavyc said:


> Google Marshall town slickers if you've never seen one or want to correctly identify your tools. FYI


Google Marshaltown slickers if you want to correctly identify the american terms for masonry tools.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Live breath and eventually when the time comes gonna die here. Land of the free home of the brave and got some darn good hockey teams. Gotta give you props on your view of the falls. Shame you'll don't have access to our masonry tool brands Aye.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

We have the tools, just name them differently

I'll have to check the sticker when I'm at the hardware store tomorrow whether marshalltown calls them slickers here or not


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Kreh (american???) says they're both slickers
http://books.google.ca/books?id=e3gyN-TPRd4C&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=masonry+slicker&source=bl&ots=MXeq7pGX2a&sig=zPUxC6XRPmqj0No07gEAf9k9dl4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Vg94U7OSMsGnyASr4YLgDQ&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=masonry%20slicker&f=false

(fig 6-22)


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

We mainly use Rose flat slickers around here...if it's concave/vex, grapevine, it's a jointer, if it's got a handle, it's a tuck.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Here's Craftmens choice of lingo...
http://www.craftsmens.com/Jointers-s/27.htm


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Who cares anyway if you call it a rat tail vs bullhorn - along as you know how to use it. 

It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian!


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

superseal said:


> Who cares anyway if you call it a rat tail vs bullhorn - along as you know how to use it.
> 
> It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian!


Wow man your tool bag/box or truck bed surely affects your gas milage. Rat tail here. You supply whole crew with hand tools. That's dedication I'm impressed. I thought I was the only one with a collection that big.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

heavyc said:


> Wow....... I thought I was the only one with a collection that big.


It's easy to grow your collection if you keep forgetting your tools at home or another job site. Maybe ol SS is in need of some omega3? If you think his tool hoard is impressive, do a search on his boots.....thing of beauty!


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

superseal said:


> Who cares....
> 
> It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian!


Truer words. I've seen some lousy joint work with good tools, and I've seen old timers use garbage and turn out nice, clean work.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

stonecutter said:


> It's easy to grow your collection if you keep forgetting your tools at home or another job site. *Maybe ol SS is in need of some omega3? * If you think his tool hoard is impressive, do a search on his boots.....thing of beauty!


If that's anything like Obama 2, no thanks :laughing: 

Might be time for new boot thread indeed :whistling my feets been hurting


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

These are tuck pointing irons for traditional thin joint tuck pointing.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

stuart45 said:


> These are tuck pointing irons for traditional thin joint tuck pointing.
> View attachment 112795


We cut/chop Barbecue with those where I'm from. LOL


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

stonecutter said:


> Do a lot of masonry work on the side?


Nah, only ever laid a few blocks ages ago, for the most part I just read books and internet sources and collect tools.


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

stuart45 said:


> These are tuck pointing irons for traditional thin joint tuck pointing.


 We've used coat hangers, not the best, but it worked. 
Two sided steel, I call slicker. If its got a handle , tuckpointer, have seen them sold as caulking trowels, but I never used one to caulk, I use spoons for that, but that's another topic. 

I can't say I really ever use the term tuck pointing , Chit I refer to it as pointing most cases.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

It's this kind of tuck pointing. Don't think you would get away with using a coat hanger on a NT property.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Ohteah said:


> We've used coat hangers, not the best, but it worked.
> Two sided steel, I call slicker. If its got a handle , tuckpointer, have seen them sold as caulking trowels, but I never used one to caulk, I use spoons for that, but that's another topic.
> 
> I can't say I really ever use the term tuck pointing , Chit I refer to it as pointing most cases.


Just in case someone is confused

Pointing:










Tuckpointing:










Tuckpointing Iron:










Pointer:










Pointing trowel:










Jointer:










Slicker:










How did I do?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> Just in case someone is confused
> 
> Pointing:
> 
> ...


Not quite. (In Canada on ANY quality restoration project) first pic is _re-pointing_, 2nd pic bang on, 3rd pic good, 4th pic is a slicker, 5th good 6th and 7th both jointers, one is a concave jointer the 2nd is a flush jointer although most would use a slicker for that type of work


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## Ohteah (Apr 3, 2013)

Yes , a coat hanger wouldn't fly tuck pointing . We used them to repoint brick row homes in South Philly. 

I watched a video someone posted a while back on traditional tuck pointing . Looked insanely tedious.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

It is a long tedious job. That's why it costs about $300 a Square yard.
Known as a poor man's gauged brickwork, it was invented to look like that type of brickwork.
It's normally done by specialist teams.


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## CanCritter (Feb 9, 2010)

3/4 in jointer for most stone with slight recessed join..


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