# Filthy hog.



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Perhaps this planer fell down a hill, or Goofy Uncle Pete, who used to run this machine, was just too drunk to pay attention to things.

I guess he drank a pint of vodka daily at work. 

Pressure bar was broke twice and then the edge on the other end had a crack in it and flaked off. That should be an easy repair and I will have it checked and ground flat and square. 

This thing ran, and did not sound too bad, but there was a mess of grease inside that motor.

I made the wife come out and help pull the head, I gave her the greasy end.




































































I have got to get this thing cleaned up, it makes my whole shop stink, just sitting in the corner.


Soon I will have three 24" planers, is that a bad thing?:whistling


----------



## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I made the wife come out and help pull the head, I gave her the greasy end.


You said it not me...


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> ...Soon I will have three 24" planers, is that a bad thing?:whistling....


No it's OK, so long as you don't need three 25" planers....:whistling:laughing:


----------



## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

If you want to sell one, I will make the drive...


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I think in gonna buy shares in rust remover with all these rusted machines you got I'm gonna be loaded in a few years lol


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That'll look pretty when you get done with it.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> That'll look pretty when you get done with it.


I really like the look of this one. It is an odd machine, direct ball bearing drive, modern head, the feed is still driven by two flat belts and a bunch of gears. Plus it has a sectional infeed roll. Rare bird for an AWWM early 20's planer.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Fits your personality.:smile:


----------



## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

You should set them all up in a row, and feed your lumber through. No more having to make multiple passes, just set them all up in decreasing depths!


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

It's easy to see why you would like that machine. It looks very smartly built for it's time, with a ton of important features. Personally, I like direct drive as long as it works, but wouldn't want to redo a bad motor.

Can't wait to see this one cleaned up!
Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, won't be pulling the bed out of this thing. Feed rolls will not come out of the machine, I got the bearing blocks off them but there is no way the rolls will come out. There is no way for the bed to come out unless I suspend the whole machine and take a side off at a time and keep the table held up in air.

The rolls sound hollow and the must have pressed the shafts in them when they were in the bed.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, I phoned the American Wood Working Machinery expert tonight and got a few suggestions and look what happened.















































Now I can pull the bed and finish cleaning this hog.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You broke it!!!

Now you have to fix it. :biggrin:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> You broke it!!!
> 
> Now you have to fix it. :biggrin:


I am just excited I was able to figure out how those came out. It is an odd way, but there is documentation about them being done like that in that late 1800's. 

Sometime tomorrow I will pull the table.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Bed would still not come out, castings would not clear sides, so I split the planer.

Took off one side, got the bed out and pulled the other side from the cross sections. 

I wasn't going to paint, but since I have completely torn apart, I might as well.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Sounds like my snowblower project. Ya, I'm just gonna replace the engine and that bearing.

By the time I was done it was nearly a new snowblower.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Seems that is how it always works out. This planer has had a few wrecks over the years, will require some more machine work be done, but I want to keep this machine to do my final planing pass. Keep it set at the same height and last pass my lumber.

It only cost me about 300 bucks, so what is spending a little more on it.


----------



## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

how do you move all this stuff around? boom in the shop?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Pallet jack mostly. I had to go get my engine hoist to hold the bed up on this one.

I unload on the street and drive them up with a fork lift, unless they are under 1500 pounds, then I just pipe them in.


----------



## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Why you do that?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Do what?


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

A better question would be: "Why ask why?"

I've never understood why people want to comment on things they have no interest in. It doesn't add to the conversation.
It's about like a gay guy asking a man "Why do you like having sex with women?" 

If it doesn't interest you...just stay away!:no:
It's not complicated.

His site name "Knucklehead" might explain the post though.

Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I should have just went and worked today.

































































The bed is back in, sides buttoned up and the table is moving up and down nicely.

I was hoping to get it done, put a bow on it and give it to my son, great second birthday present....


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Spent some time this weekend trying to get some parts off the floor and back on the machine.

I still need to clean that grease filled motor, any recommendations on how/what to use/do?

Next thing to take apart and clean will be each one of the sectional rolls, that looks like a real fun time.

Lastly, my 3 year old daughter and 2 year old son picked out the colors for me.














































I will be able to clean, paint and fit a few more parts, then I will have to wait while my pile of parts gets repaired at my welder/machine shop guys.


----------



## goneelkn (Jan 9, 2010)

Floway?? don't know on electrical motors though.

http://kanolabs.com/engCle.html


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

For the grease I'd probably start with a short soak, brush, & blow in kerosine. Then follow with declorinated brake cleaner, & an air blow gun. Be shure to use plenty of old clothes, & eye protection.

Back during my slot car days, we used carbon tetracloride to clean motors. Later on during RC phase we used declorinated brake cleaner, which is way nice to work with, & still gets the job done. It's easy on plastics, & evaporates away nicely taking grease with it.

We used kerosine as a cutting lube when cutting the comutators on lathes during RC maintanance. It won't harm the wire insulation.

That's how I'd do it, but I'm sure you'll get more input.
Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I just found a product by Sprayon that was designed to clean greasy electric motors, even while they were live too. I have used kerosene before with good luck. 

I just have to mind myself because this isn't a motor that would be easily replaced or cheaply repaired.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The sprayon is out of my price range, have to buy a case @ 140 bucks. 

Guess it is back to electrical cleaner, kerosene and elbow grease. 

Dropped off the first batch of parts that need repaired at my machine shop today. 

I really need to buy a small metal lathe and a Bridgeport.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Oh here we go 

:laughing:


Please Darcy, I'm talking to you as a friend. Follow this link. You will find you are not alone.... :w00t:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/tba-meeting-tool-buyers-anonymous-6536/


----------



## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

The thing is looking pretty good. :thumbup: It looked like a boat anchor when you started. :laughing: 

How many hp is it? Do your other planers have the sectional infeed roller? Those are nice.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It looked like it was coated in grease and then rolled around in saw dust for 50 years.:laughing:

It is a 5hp. 

My Yates American has a sectional infeed. Ideally I will use it for fast hogging cuts and save this American for final pass work. It was advertised as a cabinet surfacer, made for fine planing. 

I will be getting an early 1880's Bentel 24" planer real soon. It has a solid indeed roll but, it has a skewed, 3 knife, triangle shaped head. They patented that head and it was designed for planing figured and knotty wood, cutting at a shear angle. 

One will have to go in storage though, unless I figure out how to stack them. :laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

They only problem I have Leo, is not enough machinery.:whistling


----------



## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

Darcey,

What's the advantage with having a sectional indeed roller? I thought it was better for rough stock but you say yours is on a finishing cut planer. 


Bob


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Are your machines yelling that your family is taking up to much room yet?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

B.Scott said:


> Darcey,
> 
> What's the advantage with having a sectional indeed roller? I thought it was better for rough stock but you say yours is on a finishing cut planer.
> 
> ...


The whole point of a sectional roll, is being able to feed multiple pieces through the machine at the same time. Start one, start another, start another then go around and start catching. The sectional let's you feed multiple pieces that may not be exactly the same thickness without having to worry about a board shooting back out or getting stock that is thicker on one edge. 




Leo G said:


> Are your machines yelling that your family is taking up to much room yet?


I may have put a band saw on the front porch, told her to hang some flowers on it. :laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

The Oliver #16 is doomed.......




B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> The Oliver #16 is doomed.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think I could muscle that thing up the steps. 

Motor is clean, it has had a hard life. There is some scarring in the stator from all that grease and dust in there. It was running, not sure the side effects of this. I guess I will find out. 
D


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Did you clean it up good....

By any chance were the journals for the bearings running in oil baths...

B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Did you clean it up good....
> 
> By any chance were the journals for the bearings running in oil baths...
> 
> B,


It has oil bath ball bearings, inside housing has a pulley between it and the motor. 

There is a good picture up thread. 

Someone just kept pumping grease in the motors bearings.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

What are the bearings in the motor, bronze bushings?

B,


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Ya, but it doesn't use leather belts.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I apologize....
> I am so used to hearing about babbits from your end..........
> 
> So that collar is binding......
> ...


The issue is that the collar's ID is bigger then the rotor shaft, it slips in the inner bearing race and that collar just kind of flops around on that shaft. 

It really does not bind or anything, but as it is, that outside motor bearing is doing nothing. Maybe that is why there was 10 pounds of grease pumped in there.

Yes, I pulled the stator section of the motor off, I took a picture of how filthy it was.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

D,
There is the "working end bearing" then the inner bearing,,..correct? Attached to the main body frame,,,,?


The issue with the AWWM,,,,,,ahhhh...man...if you don't take snappers....and then go to reassemble,,,,,,

Need I say more,,,,,,,


Leo,....:laughing:.....


Man,...I'm starting a thread on that sucker....I'm a little peeved.......



B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

No inner bearing on the motor.










Left to right. 

Outside single bearing

cutter head

inboard cutter bearings (two in that housing, one on cutter head side, one on pulley side)

Pulley for feed works.

Inside motor bell, it bolts to a big bracket that bolts to the frame. There is some play in those bolts to the mount and two bolts on the mount to move the motor around.

Rotor

tail end of motor (the last set of pictures) 


Hell, this could all be the way it came or it could be screwed up.:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Maybe that journal/housing that goes on the end is just there to stabilize the shaft ......that might be.....but,,...

I can't believe no one on the Mothership knows what the purpose of this is,,.....

You said it was packed with grease.... So is there a zerk on the housing?

B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yes it had a zerk on it. 

The out board motor bearing on my YA m-60 has always made some extra noise and seemed silly to even be there. 

Since the motor can be adjusted up and down, maybe the bearing was supposed to be like that. 

There is no other planer like mine, no one owns one and there are no catalog cuts with the DD motor set up. It does say it was an option, along with the sectional infeed and chip breaker ( not sure my CB is 100% correct)


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

That's an odd one!
I think there's suppose to be a two piece collet inside that stepped sleeve. You would put the two halves in place, & then slide the sleeve over it. I could easily see where something like that could have gotten lost in past maintanance.
I just don't see any other way it would work.

How much difference is there in the diameters? Maybe a slotted piece of tubing would work?

Joe


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Looking at a blown up pict, it it looks like about a 1/16 (.0625") step down. A 1/16" walled tube might be close.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Railman said:


> Looking at a blown up pict, it it looks like about a 1/16 (.0625") step down. A 1/16" walled tube might be close.


A split tapered bushing would be ideal. 

The thread diameter is larger then the shaft shaft diameter is. What ever goes over the threads will be too large for the shaft behind. 

I know that I am able to move the whole motor shell, including the stator, in either direction and seems to be the same as my gap. 

I could always try one way and put power to the cutter head, nothing else is hooked up.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Why tapered? Is the stepped collar bore tapered, or the motor shaft?
Wouldn't a two piece shim/collar work?


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I'd start with an id that's close, & then cut the outside to fit. Then split it in two pieces.
http://www.speedymetals.com/s-204-round-tube.aspx?pagenum=3

Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

This thing reminds me of that movie, Money Pit.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Yes they can,.........




Love of the machinery D,......



B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I have just come to the conclusion that I need to practice my cast iron welding and brazing skills some more. Don't get me wrong, 4 hours of cast repair for 200 bucks is not that bad. 

I am now on the hunt for a smaller metal lathe and some sort of Bridgeport style mill. 
I think I can even use those in some of the work I do for people.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Have you repaired any cast iron D?....

Some say use nickel rod and some say braze.....:blink:



B,


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> This thing reminds me of that movie, Money Pit.


Plot-less and stupid with a few good laughs?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Have you repaired any cast iron D?....
> 
> Some say use nickel rod and some say braze.....:blink:
> 
> ...


I was taught to braze with a brass rod dipped in flux. It just takes time. 

Have to heat the parts up slowly and let them cool slowly. I was told nickle rod was for fast and dirty repairs. 

Been a long time since I brazed anything, thanks to might and tig welders. 



Inner10 said:


> Plot-less and stupid with a few good laughs?


I like that movie.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

So, what are the id, & od dims? 
Is the collar bore, or shaft tapered?
If not, a simple tube split in half would work.
Does the collar snug down against the end of the hex on the armature?
If so:
You could wrap the shaft with aluminum tape till the collar is snug, assemble, & fire up as a test. The most runout would be is about .010 or so, probably less with a little care.
Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I think I fingered this one out. It is for nothing other then thrust, the space around the shaft is for being able to adjust the motor shell position. 

I just need to get a large die tomorrow to clean up those rotor shaft threads.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

It's hard to picture the setup on your arbor. I guess the armature is cantelivered past two fixed bearings? The inner bearing collar/race rides on the threads, & the nut preloads the end bearing? 
You mentioned before that the armature just kinda flopped around in there. I still don't get the setup.

As far as cleaning up the threads, a small 3 sided file is all you need. Std machine threads are pretty much always 60deg, as is a three sided file.
Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The thread is nothing I can match, I spent some time with my triangle file, but it is futile. The threads are rolled back so bad, there is no saving them. 

Should I use the closest sized die and then just have a castle nut made the same diameter as the current mangled mess?

Or do I file those threads down and go down a thread size?

Kind of a hard part to replace, if I trash it.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Try the closest die, if it fails then you can file it down and use a smaller thread.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

NO!!!....STOP!!!.......


Wait a minute,,,..


Does the nut thread on......:blink: I should say seem like its going to thread on....?

Do you have A close up snap shot of it?- I think a found one, post #56 of this thread ..http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/filthy-hog-132984/index3/
..Is this the threaded end your referring to...?


B,


----------



## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

If you can get the thread pitch try either one of these;

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=675362&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=675361&store=snapon-store

There are other brands, these were easy to find and link.

Tom


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah, that it is the culprit B. 

I can get the nut to thread on even with the end of the shaft. 

I will head out and take a couple pictures of the current complete lack of repair, I am trying to mend.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So what's the problem? Loose fit. ...lotso slopo....?



B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It won't go on any farther then you will see in one of the pictures.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I see why it wont go any further, Threads 7 & 8 are out of position...they look like they are an advanced slightly from the original thread pattern.

I think you will be able to avoid a lot of headaches by throw a bushing on before the ring nut.......if need be tap the threaded stop collar and mount a set screw 1/4 x 20 ...you may flatten the thread in that area but it won't prevent you from removing it again- if need be...


Either that or get a matching die......but good luck with that, I think that would need to be machined...but I'm no machinist..



B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I hate this damn thing.:laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

A spacer will do one of two things, press against that bearing/collar and bind everything up, or rattle around like a ball bearing in a coffee can. 

Got to get that thing on there so it almost touches the bearing.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I am confused............

So let me get this straight,...you don't want this tight.....

Bearing?


I'm sorry I can't help D,....wish I could but you know what your dealing with- you took it apart. all I'm getting on my end is a headache trying to figure out what and how that assembly goes together,....and what it's for..


B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Almost tight. The hole set up is for thrust. If I bear it down against the bearing that is in there, it locks everything up.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Well,
Glad it's working out for you,....that is one strange setup......:blink:



B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Out board bearings on direct drive machines have always been odd to me.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Maybe spot weld a washer to the thrust side of the nut, clean all up, & assemble with a medium locktite. The washer would snug up the thrust without the nut going on any further.

Is that nut a two piece deal? I looks like one part rotates to bind up the threads, acting as a locknut. 
Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It has a slot cut in it and then a set screw that pinches the threads together to lock it in place.


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Have you tried spreading the slot?


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Hope all is well Railman....those pins....ahhhhh...LOL

D's playing with us,,,,,,,

Is that collar a "split collar" ....

D,
Man... 
Come on.....give us some pics on how this goes together..how far does that tapered " whatever" go in the journal...as you keep saying there is a bearing in there and I'm NOT SEEING IT!!!!





B, (heading for the vodka)


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It has a slot cut in it and then a set screw that pinches the threads together to lock it in place.



Which is why the thread pattern is offset.........



oK.....I got that....away from the split which is probably why those threads are not true,....but,...


I Still am not seeing this bearing you keep referring to.....:blink: is this the only end of the cutter Arbor that is threaded.....:blink:



B,


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The part with the bearing is laying on the floor, I don't have any room to work on this part with that part in there. I am just trying to get the damn thing to thread on.


----------

