# Shoulder repair?



## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

So dealing with some chronic shoulder pain. I've been looking at physical therapy treatments that I can try at home.

It appears that most cases physical therapy relieves problems without surgery. I guess it breaks down inflammation and strengthens neighboring muscles.

Anyone have first hand knowledge? I have always worked out, perhaps lifted too many heavyweights whatever but I want to get back on track. Sleeping is a chronic problem.

Somehow it's not keeping me from working this week for example I hung sheetrock and spackle sloped and flat ceilings without a problem.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

And I really don't want to be taking anti-inflammatories daily


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

If it is bicepal tendonitis or front of shoulder where bicep ties into it, try muscle flossing, google it, with rubber therapy band or better yet barbell muscle flossing. 








I dealt with long head proximal (near shoulder) bicep tendonitis for couple years till I started doing those and massage therapy every 2 weeks and heat instead of ice unless the injury is acute. 

Thinking behind it is break up fascia and scar tissue and regain full mobility and then strengthen area after full mobility is restored, works for knees, hips, ankles etc...


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Tom M said:


> So dealing with some chronic shoulder pain. I've been looking at physical therapy treatments that I can try at home.
> 
> It appears that most cases physical therapy relieves problems without surgery. I guess it breaks down inflammation and strengthens neighboring muscles.
> 
> ...


Don't rule out a trip to an osteopath. They're equivalent to MD's, but the degree is D.O, instead. They have manipulation as part of their core curriculum. Yes, they'd probably prescribe NSAID's, but at least you'll get a good ruling on the issue at hand. 

Also, try the natural anti-inflammatories in your diet. They helped me. Stuff like tumeric, etc.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Had some shoulder pain and loss of range of motion that was lingering... in the mornings I would stretch both arms behind my back as well as both sides across my chest with the other supporting the pull from behind the elbow, and follow up with ever increasing circles... It wasn't long (a week or two) before it subsided dramatically and eventually went away and my range of motion increased back to normal... 

Don't know if it will help your situation but I figured I'd mention it since it sounded familiar...

A Chiropractor can also help with realignment and inflammation so it goes better... my brother was having sciatica down his back into the side of his feet as well as back pain and I recommended him to mine... two weeks later and he went from three appointments a week to one, and is now just on maintenance... He's much happier...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Tom M said:


> And I really don't want to be taking anti-inflammatories daily



Agreed!

Those anti-inflammatories are no good for long term. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Started doing circles and stretches. Feels even more sore, which is fine as long as I know I'm not making it worse. Its unbelievable how much it can hurt sleeping

Try to stay off of it but ......
Thanks guys


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## BeforeChristoff (Nov 25, 2017)

I had all of those symptoms so I bit the bullet and went to the doctor and he sent me for an MRI that showed I had a torn rotator cuff and a detached bicep tendon. It took me 9 months to get back to work.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

I have similar issues with my right shoulder, apparently I have lots of small tears in my rotator cuff. A few years ago it was to the point I could not sleep at night or push open a door. It really sucked. Went to the Doc and from there had physical therapy for several months, it was a huge help. 
Feeling good a couple of years later I went back in the gym doing some weights and my shoulder pains have returned. 
Not sure how I will proceed but I can tell you the physical therapy was a big help.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

BeforeChristoff said:


> I had all of those symptoms so I bit the bullet and went to the doctor and he sent me for an MRI that showed I had a torn rotator cuff and a detached bicep tendon. It took me 9 months to get back to work.


Yeah thats not what I wanted to hear 

Dont know how I would get work done.


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## BeforeChristoff (Nov 25, 2017)

I did the physio therapy as well 2 different places thinking that one wasn't as good as the other but in the end my shoulder was ripped apart and needed repair, physio was just interested in the money so I had it checked out. I'll tell you one thing i'm a happy camper now!!


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I dont really trust therapy. Im sure it helps but know its a sales pitch. I feel like it works for people that are not exercise people, it forces them to show up to the gym


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## Wile E Coyote (Aug 8, 2012)

I can give you my experience with shoulder injuries. I wrestled throughout college. In that sport some degree of shoulder injury is inevitable. I took on some nagging injuries/nicks to my right shoulder throughout but towards the end of my junior year incurred a meaningful SLAP tear.

To give perspective on it, at the time I would open a shoulder day with military press for 3 sets @ about 275. After hurting my shoulder, I literally couldn’t get a cup out of an upper cabinet.

The aching was pretty intense and constant. Like you mentioned, sleeping was difficult. It took a lot of pillows to prop my arm in a decent enough position so I could sleep.

I used a lot of ice to combat the swelling and pain. The problem with icing a shoulder is that it’s difficult to wrap and I’d say impossible on your own. It took 3 plastic bags, the size of a grocery bag, and miles of ace bandage to get good coverage. You’ve probably seen the MLB pitchers on tv with similar setups. I slept with the ice on it because that’s about what it took.

Some people have suggested using heat instead of ice. I don’t know about that, but I’m a big believer in doing whatever works for you. So if ice doesn’t do it, heck try the heat.

The team trainers and doctors were pretty adamant that surgery was necessary. But I tend to think that surgeons always want to surgery. Not that they don’t have really good knowledge and insight, but I think you need to really listen to what they are saying and make the best decision for yourself.

In my case, even with surgery, it was still a year plus of recovery (about six months of near zero activity with the arm then six months of rehab). Since the timeframe meant that I was done wrestling regardless, I opted to rehab it on my own and then if after awhile, I didn’t see satisfactory improvement I’d opt for the surgery.

The shoulder rehab started at zero. As in doing mobility work on the cable machine at 5 lbs. After a few months, I worked my way up to military pressing the bar. Throughout I kept the pouring the ice on it because it continued to hurt. So unfortunately, you might have months of this discomfort in front of you.

After about a year, I was largely working out and living again like my shoulder was 100%. It is and always will be more prone taking an injury and I’ll never throw a fastball, but it hardly ever bothers me.

So bottom line, rehabbing without surgery, even after a pretty severe injury is definitely possible. Depending on the severity, your shoulder could hurt pretty bad for many months, so do what works for you in the meantime to mitigate it as much as possible. And if you feel it’s bad enough, getting a professional opinion and some imaging on it to see if the injury is beyond your body’s ability to heal itself could give you some valuable information.

Good luck, and baby it for a while, shoulder injuries suck.,


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Tom M said:


> I dont really trust therapy. Im sure it helps but know its a sales pitch. I feel like it works for people that are not exercise people, it forces them to show up to the gym


Often, once you learn it, you can do it yourself and save the visit costs. It's definitely a business that needs patients and revenue. 

I had a client who owned a hand therapy clinic. It looked a nail salon, with folks sitting at desks opening and closing their hand. She was loaded (and a cheapskate, but that's another story.)


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

My man 275lb military presses is outstanding. I miss lifting. I did tear a piece of pec/bicep. It was light weight bench....first thought too many pushups too deep over stretched but I think it was more from dead lifting. Something I never used in a routine before. 



I went back shortly after and got strong again but this past year work has been busy/demanding and chronic soreness without even doing push ups is a problem.


I want to keep in shape as I age. Work is a factor as well....quality of life thing


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

DIY diagnosis and treatment, including physical therapy:

https://www.amazon.com/Jock-Docs-Body-Repair-Kit/dp/0312199058


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Where's the pickup.

I think I'm still going to see an orthopedic just to answer some questions I have last time I saw one I was not real impressed as the guy wanted to tell me about his own problems and how old we are getting.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Go to a place that specializes in sports (and contractor) medicine.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> Go to a place that specializes in sports (and contractor) medicine.


I actually go one further. I'll look for a professional sports team orthopedic surgeon if I'm not getting diagnostics or treatment plan.

Maybe not the cream if the crop, but they know their stuff inside and out.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I did after I tore my chest a free years ago. NY Giants DR so he advertised. He talked more about his own ski injury's now being over 40.

Found more information searching myself. 

As you may already know I find when you see a doctor it's very important what you say to them because you can lead them. They're real quick to send you for batteries of tests you may not need.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Tom M said:


> Started doing circles and stretches. Feels even more sore, which is fine as long as I know I'm not making it worse. Its unbelievable how much it can hurt sleeping
> 
> Try to stay off of it but ......
> Thanks guys


It's going to hurt at first... the longer you can hold the stretches (build up from it, starting at 12 seconds with a goal of 20) and breath into it, the more you're going to find it releases over time...


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Tom M said:


> I did after I tore my chest a free years ago. NY Giants DR so he advertised. He talked more about his own ski injury's now being over 40.
> 
> Found more information searching myself.
> 
> As you may already know I find when you see a doctor it's very important what you say to them because you can lead them. They're real quick to send you for batteries of tests you may not need.


I have to say it now...you sound like another skeptical curmudgeon. :laughing: Dissing the docs that are making small talk and trying to make you comfortable, etc.. (or accept your broken-down new reality.)

For your next visit, tell them you want it straight, no b.s. I once said that to a doc (something like "I want the bottom line and I need to get back to x"...), and he paused for a moment, shifted gears, and then got right down to it. Best visit I ever had.


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## Tashler (Mar 4, 2006)

I developed shoulder pain in both in '93. Waited 13 years to have it checked. Impingement in both. Tried anti-imflammatories. Worked for a while.

Tried PT. Really didn't do anything. Got some cortisone shots periodically. Finally couldn't move the right one in 2013 and felt surgery was the only answer, finally.

DR didn't ever push for it. Ended up having a partial tear (big enough to repair), a full width tear (reattached to the humerus with three screws), and a whole bunch of other soft tissue that needed to be repaired. Then they ground away the impingement. Heard it was a lot of work they did. And I believe that if I had had the surgery on the impingement sooner there wouldn't have been so much damage.

But I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on TV.

Left shoulder feels real bad lately. I take a bunch of natural AI stuff like Tumeric, MSM, Glucosimine and Chondroitin, and recently added CBD oil . They can help, but I am not diligent enough to keep it up every day. And I feel that surgery is the best way to fix this issue.

I was out of work for 6 months with the right one, and it sucks bad because I don't carry WC, so no disability. No income. Man, I have an awesome wife. But I know that in 4-6 months I can go back to work, and within a year it should be pain free, based on my past experience.

I used flossing on my elbows a few years ago when I developed tennis elbow. Worked great. Haven't tried it for my shoulder or knees yet.

Which is my newest problem. Both knees are arthritic, but the right one got real bad one day in December doing a baseboard job. Up and down. A lot.

Xray showed the arthritis, but that isn't where this new pain is. MRI showed a meniscus tear, but THAT isn't where this pain is. And its swollen with so much fluid that someone thought I had a brace on it the other night, and I had jeans on.

Had fluid drained and a cortisone shot a few weeks ago. That lasted three days. Swelled back up then as well.

Going for PT for it. Thought it was helping but this week has been exceptionally bad. And can't work very much with it like this. So a revisit to the DR is in order. I'm overthinking the long game with this, considering a replacement, but don't know if its that bad yet.


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## 3bar (Jan 14, 2011)

get a gym membership and lift some weights.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Thanks for sharing this Tashler. So pain free in a year....yikes better than never ending though. Do you have limited motion?


It's a big deal for self employed trades


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> I have to say it now...you sound like another skeptical curmudgeon. :laughing: Dissing the docs that are making small talk and trying to make you comfortable, etc.. (or accept your broken-down new reality.)
> 
> For your next visit, tell them you want it straight, no b.s. I once said that to a doc (something like "I want the bottom line and I need to get back to x"...), and he paused for a moment, shifted gears, and then got right down to it. Best visit I ever had.


I'm all about telling it like it is. I don't care what you brutal honesty is best. 

I wouldn't have cared had the doctor said I know firsthand from my experience blah blah blah and like you my concerns where whatever...... The guy was just like yeah man we're getting older you have to live with it. 
What the f***. there's some truth to that but I want to know what I'm up against, I'll make my own decisions.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Had a doc tell me I was getting old as an explanation. I was in my 30s at the time.


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## Tashler (Mar 4, 2006)

Mine was torn, so that takes longer to heal and rehab. After 6 months I went back to work, but no real heavy lifting as the strength wasn't back yet.

I would occasionally get movement or a pop in my shoulder and would hurt like hell, but I think it was scar tissue, and it ended a short time later.

My range of motion? I don't think it's any worse than it was before, never was great. But the physical therapists were really good in stretching it. But I also insisted that they not back off in pain. Workout type pain, not injury pain.

I did everything they told me to and then some a bit. Didn't want to overdue it but needed to get back to being able to use my body for work.

I don't care for surgery, although I've had enough of them. Took me 20 years to go that route with the right shoulder. While I'm glad I did, I don't think I had much choice considering the damage.

But my experience with that one has me thinking about the other one. Not the same or same amount of damage, but I'll see light at the end of the tunnel.

If you have an impingement they same that PT can help. It didn't for me. I've seen a bunch of stuff on YouTube saying they can help it. I'm thinking about trying some. But my bottom line is always- The cause doesn't go away. And after all this time, I think that is what I feel most comfortable with.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

BeforeChristoff said:


> I had all of those symptoms so I bit the bullet and went to the doctor and he sent me for an MRI that showed I had a torn rotator cuff and a detached bicep tendon. It took me 9 months to get back to work.


Exactly why I tolerate my pain. I have a hurt right shoulder. Repetitive motion injury from sanding (ya, I know, blah blah blah). Probably hurts like your does Tom. Usually worst at night or in the morning as I sleep on my right side with my arm up under the pillow. This usually puts my shoulder in a position that isn't comfortable any more.

Whenever I shower I make sure to get lots of hot water on it and do a back and forth motion with my arm, seems to help.

But if I went to the docs for this the inevitable you need to not use this arm for a month or so might be ordered, and it's something I just can't do.

So I deal with it for now.

madrina had a thread out about treatment for this type of stuff

https://www.contractortalk.com/f22/pain-aches-no-more-416161/


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## Tashler (Mar 4, 2006)

Leo,

I totally get the dealing with the pain deal. I did it for years. My wife is my saving grace, both with her income and her tolerance. But knowing that the surgery would keep me out of work for 6 months made me feel guilty as hell. That's mainly why I put it off for so long.

But I could only take so much. And, admittedly, my wife's income is greater than mine and is somewhat of a crutch. So I needed to do what any normal, not self employed person would do.

And hopefully that/these decisions keep me healthy for the rest of my life as opposed to forever dealing with the pain and getting chronically and progressively worse into my old age.

Should my lovely bride decide to let me live that long.


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## rescraft (Nov 28, 2007)

Tip a PT told me; for icing, fill bag 3 parts water, 1 part rubbing alcohol. Freezer time. Gets very cold, but does not freeze, so you can manipulate around as needed.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Yep, you warm the area, do your exercises and then cool it back down. When I injure my shoulder by falling on my elbow that's what he PT people did with me.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

rescraft said:


> Tip a PT told me; for icing, fill bag 3 parts water, 1 part rubbing alcohol.


Mentioned this to my wife, and she was intrigued. Then she suggested using whiskey instead. Double duty!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I used to buy a 10 lb bag of ice cubes on the way in every morning, then stuff some in a big plastic bag and stuff it in my shirt to cover my shoulder and upper arm.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

You need an MRI I tore both rotator cuffs close to 14 yrs ago. Back to back surgeries. It was hell, but you need to visit an Orthopedic Surgeon. 

There were a lot of people doing physical therapy for shoulders without needing surgery. 

Good luck!



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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

My father lost his shoulder but got it back.. Was forman on commerial high rise job way back in the 80s. Fork lift went thru a wall knocking over a huge steel tool or paint cabinet landing on him crushing his shoulder and one muscle was crushed beyond repair. The muscle was removed. He could not lift his arm over his head. After months of therapy and he was able to build the other muscles around it to some how. 


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

So Tim... been a few days... getting any better?


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I don't know about Tim :shifty: but I'm working the creak's out...... it hurts when I stop moving


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Tom M said:


> I don't know about Tim :shifty: but I'm working the creak's out...... it hurts when I stop moving


Oops.... i next to the o, older fingers, typing too fast, you know how it goes... :laughing:


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

I had real bad shoulder pain about 20 years ago from an accident.
Doc gave me two cortisone shots:thumbsup:


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