# It's Starting



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

About two months ago I landed a 200 thousand dollar job. Three other "contractors" invited to bid, none could even digest the drawings.

Today I turned down a 150 thousand dollar job as I don't have the time or manpower to take it on.

This is the beginning that I have predicted will happen. There simply are not enough skilled tradesmen out there. I cannot find qualified carpenters.

Let alone qualified contractors. It's only going to get worse. Good for me, but bad for the public.

I don't advertise at all, and I'm currently booked until next February. There is a ton of work I could take on if there were any qualified people to hire.

This whole scenario is pretty scary for the HO. They will only be able to choose between hack A or hack B.

Just watch the next 5 years.


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## cdkyle (Jul 12, 2009)

Really? What, are there no Mexican illegal immigrants there? Or, does the Canadians actually protect their border?

BTW, congratulations on the job. And, glad to hear you are booked. Heck, I wish everyone was booked.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

cdkyle said:


> Really? What, are there no Mexican illegal immigrants there? Or, does the Canadians actually protect their border?
> 
> BTW, congratulations on the job. And, glad to hear you are booked. Heck, I wish everyone was booked.


They have this spongy country below them that sucks them up before they get there. :jester: sort of.

I am seeing it here as well. Lots of guys getting out and heading towards retirement, or just fed up with all the regulations they haven't had to deal with until the last few years.

Suits me just fine. Lots of guys who think that a cellphone is optional. :whistling


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Good help is hard to find.

Glad to hear your booked up, Kato.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

That's good Kato

I'm about to start turning work down for the same reason, can't get the qualified manpower.

I told Nick the Kid today...End of June to Beginning of September...he's booked


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## I Mester (Aug 21, 2011)

I've been going through the same thing here the past few months. did a ton of estimates, then suddenly its like a tsunami, 
they're all coming out of the woodwork and want it done NOW.
got em spread out well into the fall. but i hate to turn work away,. but cant get good enough help. seems an age old problem here.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

katoman said:


> This whole scenario is pretty scary for the HO. They will only be able to choose between hack A or hack B.


So...are you contractor "A" or "B"? :laughing: 

Another thing to consider is how many tradespeople have gotten out of the business due to the lack of business. I know Canada didn't have the downturn that the U.S. did, so that maybe that doesn't enter into the equation much for you.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

Same here, although I'm not booked out 3-6 mos right now, first time in two years. Which is really odd.

Getting help is now the biggest nightmare there is.

As mentioned lots of guys got out of the trades, now there is a sudden demand for help. Alot of the immigrants have gone home over the past few years. (in our area its euorpean and south american) Kids aren't interested in working. 

On the other hand there are alot of people looking for work but when you size up what they can provide and what they are going to drag you down with it just doesn't add up. I can't get over the people who need to bring their personal problems to work. The drug and alcohol issues. No transportation. Late or unable to show up because they have to deal with.......... today instead of work. 

I really feel sorry for people but when you start to think about it. Many people don't want to step up and take personal responsibility for their actions. I don't want to cry a river but it's a six day a week, non-stop right now, alot of the fun things I like to do don't get to happen. I'm just asking someone to show up for 7 to 8 hrs a day and it's almost impossible. 

Anyone who is qualfied and skilled at what they do is busy as can be where I live. I have a friend who does drywall and paint. This guy likes to work the least he can (he usually works enough to pay the mort and bills and have some spending money and thats enough) Well he's pulling six days a week 10-12 hrs a day and turning people away right now. Why? Because on the job he's considerate of others, does quality work, has resonable rates, and is an all around good guy. It's funny how far those traits will get you.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

cdkyle said:


> Really? What, are there no Mexican illegal immigrants there? Or, does the Canadians actually protect their border?
> 
> BTW, congratulations on the job. And, glad to hear you are booked. Heck, I wish everyone was booked.


Let's be real. Most of the Mexicans and "illegals" show up for work when asked, and perform the task w/o a bunch of supervision. It can be quite difficult to find decent local help, with their personal issues and "sick" days, as Fast Fred mentioned.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm on the same page with kato, it is terrible. Any kid with half a brain around here is shoved off to college, which is ok. Then any of those kids that are less smart or drop out of college, can get a job at the coal mine, making close to a $100,000 a year, or the oil or gas field for 50,000-75,000 yr. All of these jobs require an absolute zero skill set. The coal miners work seven on, seven off, so on there seven off they play GC runnin us legit contractors competition.  We've advertised for labors for two months and had three applications.  We do have some skilled guys and I don't mean to discredit them, but it has taken years to gather them up. Nobody wants to work hard for their money, or put in the time to learn a trade and reap the benefits of that hard work. Our country is full of people lookin for instant gratification. I wish I could just find a couple kids like Nick:thumbup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

yea..Nicks ''special'':whistling


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Leave my Nick alone...he's off limits to you guys.

Ask him about the date I was trying to set him up on yesterday. How many bosses do that for their guys?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

your a icf/pimp specialist?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I see Nick forwarded you the memo


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Katoman I just received an email last week from WCB on a luncheon seminar for hiring out of country. Here in Vancouver there is a large spike in carpenters from the UK and Ireland.

Perhaps you should contact WCB and look into this option. This trend will continue and your labour rates can surely keep rising as demand outpaces the work that can be preformed by Canada's labour pool.

I see also many older trades sending in Green Horns as they pile on the work load.

I'm sure the reason your booked is because of top quality work and the fact that clients and builders alike want to work with pros... :clap:

JW


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Katoman I just received an email last week from WCB on a luncheon seminar for hiring out of country. Here in Vancouver there is a large spike in carpenters from the UK and Ireland.
> 
> Perhaps you should contact WCB and look into this option. This trend will continue and your labour rates can surely keep rising as demand outpaces the work that can be preformed by Canada's labour pool.
> 
> ...


Good luck with getting anyone from the UK over here on a work visa. One of my Mates works for RBS as a trader of some sort. he was sent over to run the US RBS trading floor in Chicago. even though the company has special visa for sending him over it was still a nightmare for him and costs his company thousands of $ to get him over here. You have to sponsor the person and it ain't cheap. you also have to prove there no one available in the US to fill that position. Its a joke for sure as there are a lot of trades people in the UK looking to leave as its over run with illegals in a bad way.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

BCConstruction said:


> Its a joke for sure as there are a lot of trades people in the UK looking to leave as its over run with illegals in a bad way.


Unlike here?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Chris Johnson said:


> That's good Kato
> 
> I'm about to start turning work down for the same reason, can't get the qualified manpower.
> 
> I told Nick the Kid today...End of June to Beginning of September...he's booked


i do go on vacation for 2 weeks though :whistling


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

:clap:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Why is it their only choice is you hack a or hack b? If their are no good contractors to hire, couldn't it be that they already are employed by a good outfit?


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

well hopefully supply and demand will kick in for our services... as in a lot of demand and a select supply..

From what i've read there will be a lot of guys in the trades retiring over the next ten years...it really is only beginning.


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

I read an article about the trades a while back. It cited statistics that claim that the average age of a general contractor in the U.S. is now 55 years old.
The article also addressed the situation that exists in many public schools now where the shop classes, metal, wood, automotive, have all been dropped in favor of computer oriented course study.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

They should drop sex-ed. Those youngsters are coming up with stuff that makes Karma Sutra look like Yoga 101. 

Bring back the trade classes before no one knows how to build a simple home anymore. Oh wait...we might be too late.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Good luck with getting anyone from the UK over here on a work visa. One of my Mates works for RBS as a trader of some sort. he was sent over to run the US RBS trading floor in Chicago. even though the company has special visa for sending him over it was still a nightmare for him and costs his company thousands of $ to get him over here. You have to sponsor the person and it ain't cheap. you also have to prove there no one available in the US to fill that position. Its a joke for sure as there are a lot of trades people in the UK looking to leave as its over run with illegals in a bad way.


Commonwealth countries are a little easier to get work visas, I've heard.

So from the UK to Canada shouldn't be that hard.

I get resumes from guys coming here from Ireland and the UK at least a couple times a month.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

angus242 said:


> They should drop sex-ed. Those youngsters are coming up with stuff that makes Karma Sutra look like Yoga 101.


there are really only 2 positions,the rest are just acrobatics


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Bodger said:


> I read an article about the trades a while back. It cited statistics that claim that the average age of a general contractor in the U.S. is now 55 years old.
> The article also addressed the situation that exists in many public schools now where the shop classes, metal, wood, automotive, have all been dropped in favor of computer oriented course study.


Yup, they dropped shop classes back in the 80's.

The average age of a skilled tradesman here is 62. We constitute 40% of the skilled work force. We are starting to retire now. The next 5 years will really show the lack of trades.

Although north america may get some trades from Ireland, etc. it is a drop in the bucket compared to what the demand will be. 

As we start to come out of this recession it's going to be crazy.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Yeah.. It's like Gen X is the last group of folks who know how to work with their hands.. and don't feel ashamed about it. 

But I think that we blew it as a society when people started subscribing to the notion that the internet would replace EVERY type of business and industry...and these tunnel visioned folks would get mad at me when I would say, "Your house was cannot be built via the Internet."

But I gotta say that work is really picking up around here also. Work has been steady for a while. It's just that now everything is starting to shift from the government to the private sector. 

This time last year I was doing mostly Federal gov't and D.C. gov't buildings. Now I am doing nothing but commercial offices and luxury apartment buildings. And one thing that I notice is that GC's and site superintendents are managing multiple jobsites. 

The demand for skilled workers in the greater Washington DC area must be pretty high any time I see license plates from states as far North as Connecticut and as far South and West as Texas.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Bodger said:


> I read an article about the trades a while back. It cited statistics that claim that the average age of a general contractor in the U.S. is now 55 years old.
> The article also addressed the situation that exists in many public schools now where the shop classes, metal, wood, automotive, have all been dropped in favor of computer oriented course study.





angus242 said:


> They should drop sex-ed. Those youngsters are coming up with stuff that makes Karma Sutra look like Yoga 101.
> 
> Bring back the trade classes before no one knows how to build a simple home anymore. Oh wait...we might be too late.


excellent book on the topic of shop classes disappearing and the value of working with ones hands:
http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-So...7467/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337268115&sr=8-1


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

katoman said:


> Yup, they dropped shop classes back in the 80's.
> 
> The average age of a skilled tradesman here is 62. We constitute 40% of the skilled work force. We are starting to retire now. The next 5 years will really show the lack of trades.
> 
> ...


62 thats unbelieveable


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

When I was in High School we had a full blown auto repair shop. I remember putting my 67 Chevelle on the lift and welding exhaust.......in frickn High School. We also had a full blown machine shops with Bridgeport mills and a wood shop with a massive sander and panel saws etc. Its all gone now.

Amazing how things change.


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## gastek (Mar 29, 2011)

Yeah I remember, once a year some kid would take the tip of a finger off in woods shop. Ah the good old days.


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## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

I started taking woodshop and metalshop classes in the 8th grade. I went to school in a small town in Ohio and the machines were all from before WWII. Lathes, planers, jointers, drill presses, all with massive cast iron bodies and solid as hell. 

We had a cool shop teacher who would basically let you do whatever your skill level would allow. And he was always working on his own project somewhere off to the side, building a chair or a bookcase. 

It's a damn shame those classes are all but gone now. As has been said, who is going to do the building in this country? These computer geeks think the houses will be built in China and shipped over here?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

we screwed everything up:sad:can't blame the kids:sad:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

you need to get a formal education first


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i never do 3 same smilies in a row like that..dam kids


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

I won't even get into the education part. It's sad, kids that don't like english, history, science, and math, (like myself) don't really have the ability to go down to the shop and hang out (like I did) and ask if I can learn how to do fiberglass molds, weld, play with electrical things........ you name it. 

I'm working on a project right now and outside there are some "immigrants" moving rocks, spreading mulch, raking, trimming trees, digging holes, etc.... We were laughing at the thought that you couldn't find a white kid to do that job if your life depended on it. 

Then people turn around and complain that they are taking our jobs.

A farmer needed people to pick corn, couldn't get all the visas he needed, knew people were looking for work, so he hires americans. The longest white person lasted 6 hrs picking corn.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

fast fred said:


> I won't even get into the education part. It's sad, kids that don't like english, history, science, and math, (like myself) don't really have the ability to go down to the shop and hang out (like I did) and ask if I can learn how to do fiberglass molds, weld, play with electrical things........ you name it.
> 
> I'm working on a project right now and outside there are some "immigrants" moving rocks, spreading mulch, raking, trimming trees, digging holes, etc.... We were laughing at the thought that you couldn't find a white kid to do that job if your life depended on it.
> 
> ...


 no offense, but I don't think that's really accureate.
My neighbor is a landscape contractor and I can tell you he has ZERO trouble hiring" white kids" to do that sort of work-----and they do it,often 60 plus hours per week.

counting the overtime they get paid pretty well and they work VERY hard. over the last 6 years or so I have watched at least 3 seperate young men who work for him put themselves through college. One young guy put himself through college-spent 2 years in the peace corp-and is back working for my neighbor on the days he doesn't have a substitute teaching gig while he waits starting law school in the fall.

I have 2 young guys("white kids")- BOTH college graduates working for me right now,and happy to do it.

If you hire the right kid- the kind of kid with the smarts and the drive to put himself through college-well he is the kind of kid who doesn't have any trouble learning to drive a bob cat,or work a shovel-or in our case solder copper flashing or cut slate

and I can definitely tell you---- the customers LOVE them

but hire a young guy so stupid he can't even keep a drivers license???----and yes, he probably isn't gonna be able to do hard work either,LOL


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I have no problems finding customers that want expensive projects and are willing to pay what it costs.

I try to stay out of the race to the bottom.

And darn tootin' my two girls and little boy will know how to repair, remodel, or build just about anything. That is my duty as a Dad, to teach them what I know.


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

I know what you talking about Kato. I just picked up another spec home builder...they went through 16 "masonry" companies in 2 months.

38 homes to be fixed...all rip-down and reinstall...booked solid with 2 weeks of gray areas until october...isnt it suspicious that all 16 of those companies specialized in "cultured stone and repointing"?


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## kyle_dmr (Mar 17, 2009)

Just to throw it out there,
Whats the job? I will travel for the right price dollar amounts, and so will my guys.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

A recent developement - http://www.calgaryherald.com/busine...rgy workers needed by 2015/6697325/story.html

They will never fill this need. Anyone going into the trades will go there or other high paying union jobs. The residential sector is about to be decimated as far as skilled workers goes.

My prediction is that the residential/reno sector will be flooded even more with untrained people due to the lack of money there.

Can't wait to see what the next five years brings. :laughing:


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