# automatic tools are they worth



## disantodrywall (Jul 24, 2010)

are they worth buying and should i buy new or try to find some on like ebay or something. and whats a good brand that might not cost me three grand yet


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

If your business is strictly drywall then you can't afford not to. You will get beat in labor costs the majority of the time. Yes there are still fast hand finishers but there's no way you can beat some of the new tools getting pushed around the board by a experienced finisher. 

I personally got a taper from CL. It is not my only business tho. I figured the taper would save me the most time. 

I'll tell you the tool that I kick myself for not getting when they came out..... the porta cable sander. That thing is awesome and I LOOK FORWARD to sanding drywall. Yeah I've got problems. :wacko:


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

*Worth the money*

Like Paulie said, if your business is strictly drywalling & taping you can't afford not to. 
Im 24 years old, and i started my company when I was 19. Started learning when I was 16. I was taught to tape by hand, and we used the old s**t box style. (Pardon the language). 
But everything was done by hand. Hawk and Trowel, and we did our angles one side at a time.

When I started my company I began to look for faster more efficient ways to do things. A few friends turned me onto the idea of Automatic taping tools. 
I'll admit at first I made a few mistakes, I took out a private loan and bought myself everything I needed. I bought a $4000 kit (canadian pricing), which included, a bazooka, a mud pump, 
1 flusher head, a roller, and a 10" and 12" box for flats as well as a big stainless stell case. This was the kit here. From this exact website.

http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Set-Specials/Columbia-Tools-Full-Set.html

The prices have gone down a bit since then but not by much. With shipping and everything it came up to almost 4g's.

Anyways, I quickly learnt that bazookas weren't everything they were cracked up to be. *After a little practice and I got the hang of them then yes, you could fly! Tape so fast. I would almost need two guys just to wipe the tapes behind me. *
*However, they do have their downsides*, for one, I found that when pumping mud into the bazooka if the pump caught an air bubble that would then be transfered into the bazooka and in turn onto your wall behind the tape. So I found that especially in corners i'd have bubbled tape everynow and then. Not a heck of allot. But just enough to annoy me. And you dont notice them until you pass your flusher the next time which is your skim; and then your stuck peeling back tape.
But anyways, all of that wasnt that bad. I could deal.
*The thing that sucks is when they break. If something goes, and trust me, something will, your screwed.*
My tension string that reels the mud up snapped one time and I didnt have any backup parts for it. I lost days. I had to order replacement parts online and so on and so forth.
*I find them to be very finicky. When they work, they work friggen amazing!! But when they dont....well...they're the exact opposite...you spend hours trying to play with it to fix the problem..troubleshooting..waiting for parts..*
The tools also have to be kept very clean and very well taken care of.

*So...with all that being said, I would be cautious about buying a bazooka.*
*However!! Boxes and flushers!! I absolutely cannot live without!!*
I dont even know how I ever made money before.
The only thing I still use from that kit are my boxes, flushers and pump. But even now, I dont use the columbia flushers. I find the spring loaded ones dont work as well.
Here's the exact setup I use now.

http://www.canamtool.com/products/BasicToolKit

*I use a compound tube to tape, which is still really fast!
Not as fast as a bazooka, but they're 100 times more reliable.
They will never break on you and there's absolutely nothing to keeping them clean. Your seal over time might start to wear on you but then its only a $40 fix.
You can do everything with that tube and those attachments.
At least to get your tapes on.
In my oppinion, its the most reliable way to tape.
Never any hassle.*

Then for coating, get yourself a 10" box as well as a 12" and a pump to fill them. Then you're golden!

*If I could start fresh and I had the experience I have now, this is exactly what I would have bought!
These exact two links.*
http://www.canamtool.com/products/BasicToolKit 
http://www.all-wall.com/Categories/Set-Specials/Columbia-Box-Combo-Set.html

That is the exact setup I run with now. And we fly!
Hope this was of help! Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to try to give you as much info as I could.
Let me know if you have any more questions! :thumbsup:


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Great first post. :thumbup:


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## disantodrywall (Jul 24, 2010)

ok thanks for the advice and as far as jobs go, i do all different size jobs, from little mudding jobs, to insurance repair jobs, to full house jobs. Im also still working on doing commercial work but im looking at getting more smaller jobs first. but thanks again.


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## Zendik (Sep 18, 2005)

Automatic taping tools are a must if you have jobs bigger than 5,000 sq bd ft.
Automatic taping tools in the hands of rookies though....


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

If you are not wanting to buy a Bazooka then I would go for a Banjo. I used one for years. It's cheap and very easy to use.

I agree very much with the idea that any corner tools you can get your hands on you will be money ahead. Corners take the most time and it is amazing how much faster a roller and flusher will make things go. I taped dozens of houses with a banjo and corner tools.

However, once you get a Bazooka in your hands you will have the learning curve. That will discourage you and you will just have to stick with it. Once you really get the hang of it you will never look back. They are awesome pieces of machinery. I would recommend finding a seasoned taper to come and show you some tricks for a day or two.

As far as brand I think you will just have to find out which one would work best for you. They are all pretty much the same with slight differences. But if you were to ask me I have all Blue Line tools. All-Wall is a good place to check out.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

*All good points!*

Everybody has made very good points.
And thanks for the thumbs up and props Big Shoe and Disantodrywall.

disantodrywall
Because you do some insurance work, obviously you wont be able to use flushers and boxes everywhere. We do allot of insurance work as well and there's often allot of blending old with new and feathering wider joints and such. But for new construction nothing beats boxes and flushers. I'll be uploading a video to YouTube shortly to show off the tools for you. Give you an Idea. 

In reply to Zendik and CrpntrFrk
I agree, if you have no experience with a bazooka it will deffinetly be frustrating at first! 
Like CrpntrFrk said, if you buy a bazzoka there will be a steep learning curve which will frustrate the heck out of you! And unfortunately no matter how many videos you watch or try to learn from, you will only get the experience first hand. Dont expect to just pick up a bazooka and go. It will be slow at first and you will get frustrated. Very! lol.

Hence why I suggested the compound tube. So much cheaper and reliable in my oppinion. 
Dont get me wrong, bazooka's are great!!
I just find them to be more time consuming to take care of and keep clean and well maintained so they keep performing well.

Let me know your thoughts bro.
I'll keep in touch. See what you decide.
I'll upload a video in a few days for you as well.


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## RS Sam (Feb 9, 2009)

Big Shoe said:


> Great first post. :thumbup:


Absolutely - *little loud though* :laughing:, but I like your enthusiasm :thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

*haha sorry.*



RS Sam said:


> Absolutely - *little loud though* :laughing:, but I like your enthusiasm :thumbsup:


haha ya, sorry, it was a little loud.


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## AARC Drywall (May 11, 2008)

We have two complete columbia sets, and will never go back. The speed + quality = money...of course we have to coat by hand here and there, but very little, just because we dont want to get the pumps dirty etc, and we can do it by had just as well in small areas.
Rollar and flusher are a good starting place for angles, but if you can afford it switch out to a glazing head. We have found that it is 1000 times better, and it dries in 1/2 the time. And sanding is a breeze, way less sanding. All in all we would never go back to hand taping.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

AARC Drywall said:


> We have two complete columbia sets, and will never go back. The speed + quality = money...of course we have to coat by hand here and there, but very little, just because we dont want to get the pumps dirty etc, and we can do it by had just as well in small areas.
> Rollar and flusher are a good starting place for angles, but if you can afford it switch out to a glazing head. We have found that it is 1000 times better, and it dries in 1/2 the time. And sanding is a breeze, way less sanding. All in all we would never go back to hand taping.


Exactly!!
Good comment.
Here's a video like I promised DisantoDrywall.
Sorry for the delay and the poor video quality, we just filmed it on our iphone to give you an idea of how effective a compound tube, a roller and a flusher can be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVkjBxlVScI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
We taped this room in under 13 minutes.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Exactly!!
> Good comment.
> Here's a video like I promised DisantoDrywall.
> Sorry for the delay and the poor video quality, we just filmed it on our iphone to give you an idea of how effective a compound tube, a roller and a flusher can be.
> ...


Woah woah woah!:blink:

I guess it might just be me and I might be too picky but order of tape

1. Butt joints

2. Flats

3. Inside corners

Each step laps the ends of the previous. If done right I guess there should not be a problem but...........:no:

Also I am giving you the benefit of the doubt cause you were shooting a video but with a bazooka man and a wipe man that room would have gone a lot faster. IMO:thumbup:

I still thank you for the video cause it is nice to see those tools in action as I have often wondered about them and how to provide their service in the field. :thumbsup:


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## BUTCHERMAN (Jan 19, 2008)

It depends on the nature of your work. In most cases there are cheaper and more cost efficient ways to do things. What type of drywall work do you do?


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

CrpntrFrk said:


> Woah woah woah!:blink:
> 
> I guess it might just be me and I might be too picky but order of tape
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comment "CrpntrFrk", and traditionaly yes, you're right.
I was taught in that specific order as well. The Butt joints, flats and then the inside corners way.
However I found that when I did my butt joints and flats first while running my flusher it would catch the tapes and rip or pull them where they met any inside corner (Because they wouldnt be dry yet). It got pretty annoying. Hence changing my method to taping corners first. 

If Its a big house and I know we wont have time to tape the whole thing in one day then I will do all my butt joints and flats first and then they can dry overnight and I can run my corners through them the next day without pulling or catching tapes. 
That being said, there arent too many houses we cant tape in a day. lol. At the very least if its a big house we'll just end the day on the top floor and start again in the basement in the morning.

I personally do not think the order of tape matters. As long as they overlap and aren't cut short. Wether or not the butt joint is done first and then your inside corner overlaps it or the inside corner is done first and then your butt joint overlaps it. Make sense!? It does to me anyways. Its tape on tape. Who cares which went on first.

But traditionally yes, you're right. That would be the most typical way.
But im not your typical kind'a guy 
I've been doing it that way for years and i've never had a problem!


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## Mudshark (Feb 12, 2009)

disantodrywall said:


> are they worth buying and should i buy new or try to find some on like ebay or something. and whats a good brand that might not cost me three grand yet


 
It depends on how much taping you plan to do with the tools. 

I think Brian from Precision Taping summmed it up very well in his posts. 

If I was starting fresh I would begin with the compound tube and some attachments. A tin flusher for corners is a lot less expensive than the mechanical flushers or angle heads out there. The inside mud applicator is very handy, but the flats and outside corners you can apply mud by hand with a knife and if your budget warrants it buy the applicators. 

A flat box set is a great investment but you will also need a pump to fill the boxes. 

The automatic taper is also great and I love mine but you can get the job done without it so I would see the auto taper as a later investment.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

Mudshark said:


> It depends on how much taping you plan to do with the tools.
> 
> I think Brian from Precision Taping summmed it up very well in his posts.
> 
> ...


I agree again! MudShark's on the ball!
I'll have a video uploaded to youtube probably tomorrow for you man.
Show you how effective boxes and a pump are.


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## AARC Drywall (May 11, 2008)

lol if you dont know how to tape in the first place, the tools are not going to help you...learn the first, then buy as you can afford it.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

AARC Drywall said:


> lol if you dont know how to tape in the first place, the tools are not going to help you...learn the first, then buy as you can afford it.


Thats also true!!
Dont think you can buy automatic taping tools with no prior taping experience and become a pro taper. You need to know how to use a hawk and trowel first.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

PrecisionTaping said:


> . You need to know how to use a hawk and trowel first.


For what?.....stucco!?:jester:

Just pulling your leg. Around here hawk and trowel are for stucco and tape knife and mud pan are for drywall.:laughing:


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

CrpntrFrk said:


> For what?.....stucco!?:jester:
> 
> Just pulling your leg. Around here hawk and trowel are for stucco and tape knife and mud pan are for drywall.:laughing:


Yep, same thing around here. Funny how practices are local. 

I was watching a special on ancient masons and they could tell what part of the country they came from by there styles.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

CrpntrFrk said:


> For what?.....stucco!?:jester:
> 
> Just pulling your leg. Around here hawk and trowel are for stucco and tape knife and mud pan are for drywall.:laughing:





Paulie said:


> Yep, same thing around here. Funny how practices are local.
> 
> I was watching a special on ancient masons and they could tell what part of the country they came from by there styles.


Yuck!!! Are you guys kidding!?
I wouldnt be caught dead with a mud pan!! I hate those things!! lol
All around these parts we use hawks, trowels and tape knives.
I never ever see tapers use mud pans...
and when I do see tapers from down south using mud pans and those ugly knife handle things instead of a trowel, I assume they're hacks.
oh! and btw, I rarely do stucco. People around here are too cheap to pay for it.
95% of my work is drywall & tape.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

PrecisionTaping said:


> and when I do see tapers from down south using mud pans and those ugly knife handle things instead of a trowel, I assume they're hacks.
> .


From what I can tell from your posts you seem to have a good amount of knowledge especially about your selected trade. It is pretty discouraging to see an asinine comment such as that one in one of your posts. Too bad really.


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## Mudshark (Feb 12, 2009)

CrpntrFrk said:


> From what I can tell from your posts you seem to have a good amount of knowledge especially about your selected trade. It is pretty discouraging to see an asinine comment such as that one in one of your posts. Too bad really.




I wouldnt take it too seriously. In one of your earlier posts you said hawk and trowel is just for stucco guys, at least in your area. Well it all boils down to what may be the norm in an area. Where I am from in Canada, I would suggest that most of the better, faster and more experienced drywall tapers use a hawk and trowel. That doesnt mean pan and knife guys are all inferior, just outnumbered. Some of the pan and knife guys are pretty good. It takes some time to learn and be comfortable with a hawk and trowel but pan and knife is perhaps easier to learn. 

I have seen some very fast coating of bead on commercial jobs. Some of these hawk and trowel guys get it on so fast that sometimes they just go strait from the mud bucket with the trowel and onto the wall. In these cases the mud is going on very fast and I doubt a pan and knife man could match that pace.

Hawk and trowel, Hawk and bucket, Pan and knife, Hawk and knife or knife and knife. Whatever gets the job done and you are comfortable with it, thats all that matters.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

Mudshark said:


> I wouldnt take it too seriously. In one of your earlier posts you said hawk and trowel is just for stucco guys, at least in your area. Well it all boils down to what may be the norm in an area. Where I am from in Canada, I would suggest that most of the better, faster and more experienced drywall tapers use a hawk and trowel. That doesnt mean pan and knife guys are all inferior, just outnumbered. Some of the pan and knife guys are pretty good. It takes some time to learn and be comfortable with a hawk and trowel but pan and knife is perhaps easier to learn.
> 
> I have seen some very fast coating of bead on commercial jobs. Some of these hawk and trowel guys get it on so fast that sometimes they just go strait from the mud bucket with the trowel and onto the wall. In these cases the mud is going on very fast and I doubt a pan and knife man could match that pace.
> 
> Hawk and trowel, Hawk and bucket, Pan and knife, Hawk and knife or knife and knife. Whatever gets the job done and you are comfortable with it, thats all that matters.


Yes my post about stucco guys using a hawk and trowel was to point out how the geographical difference also sets the difference in the preferred method of application. Hence the emotiocons.:thumbsup::whistling

With that being said I would never say that a tradesmen would be a hack do to his different yet accepted methods. That to me is just as I called it.....asinine. Someone who has no willing to learn or understand other methods to improve their knowledge of their chosen trade.

I personally have used a hawk and trowel all my construction career. 98.453% has been for stucco cementatious and/or synthetic. I tried using it with drywall compound a couple times and chose to stick with the mud pan method. I do not think any less of anyone who prefers a hawk and trowel for drywall and would be the first to say that there are greater mud men than I who use such tools. I am not so stuck in my ways or stuck on myself to acknowledge that.:thumbup:

As for you insinuations as to the better method, I would say there are both mud pan men and hawk and trowel men who could compete with each other very closely. 

Once again geographical locations nothing more. I personally don't care what others use. I imagine (correct me if I am wrong) that orange peal or knockdown texture is what is popular in your area. Not here. Skip trowel, Sante Fe, are just examples of what we are used to around my neck of the woods er desert.:laughing:

P.S. We use round corners.:laughing:


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

Sorry to cause unrest CrpntrFrk.
Didnt mean any insult to anyone by it.
Its just honestly, around these parts, any taper i've met with a mud pan and a large handled knife instead of a trowel just suck.
Not to say everyone worldwide does. 
But around here, if someone calls me up looking for a job saying they're an experienced taper and they show up on my jobsite with a mudpan and a little wiping blade...
I tell them to start scraping the floors, cuz thats what those blades are good for. 

And to tell you the truth, when I first started doing this when I was 16 years old and my boss told me to go buy myself some tools and I showed up with those. Thats exactly what he told me!

He took my little plastic mud pan, put it on the floor and stepped on it and then threw my little wiping blade in a mud box we were using as garbage and said to me "That knife is for scraping floors. Is that what you want to do?", then he pulled out 20$ from his pocket and said "go buy yourself some real tools! Something that says Marshalltown on it!"

So I mean no offence to anyone who uses mud pans and those wide knives instead of a hawk and trowel, quite simply just not my cup of tea. Thats how I was taught, and thats how I teach.

Thanks for the comment MudShark!


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

CrpntrFrk said:


> Yes my post about stucco guys using a hawk and trowel was to point out how the geographical difference also sets the difference in the preferred method of application. Hence the emotiocons.:thumbsup::whistling
> 
> With that being said I would never say that a tradesmen would be a hack do to his different yet accepted methods. That to me is just as I called it.....asinine. Someone who has no willing to learn or understand other methods to improve their knowledge of their chosen trade.
> 
> ...


And its not that Im not willing to learn, its just in my opinion an inferior way of taping. I am more than capable of using a mud pan and a large blade. They're just not fast enough to get mud out of from and I find there's just not as much control over the blade compared to a trowel. I also at no point said that I was the greatest mud man out there. I just turned 24 years old! Im sure there are much better than me! Who have a way vaster knowledge.
Just around these parts, there aren't too many talented tapers who use a mud pan and knife. 

And you're absolutely right CrpntrFrk, Knockdown's are really popular up here. I always preffer a smoothe ceiling, but when someone asks for a design, it almost always is a knockdown.
And ps: we also use round corners :thumbsup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

oh wait! Re-reading my previous comment I can see how my line of thought might have been misinterpreted.
When I said "when I do see tapers from down south using mud pans and those ugly knife handle things instead of a trowel, I assume they're hacks."
I didnt mean other tradesmen from this site who I see online or guys I see on tv or tapers who actually live down south.
Its just i've been around the block a couple of times man, I've seen allot of jobs and allot of sites. And almost all of the bigger commercial jobs i've seen, all had out of town tapers, who come in at a quarter of what I charge and do crap work. Using?!...you guessed it. A mud pan and knife.
But that seems to maybe be only around these parts...
That for some reason nobody knows how to do great work using a mud pan and a knife and nobody knows how to use fiber tape! :laughing:

So to clarify, I didnt mean everybody who lives down south from me!
I meant so called tapers who arent working because they suck who come in from out of town (down south) and low ball so they can have work. Which is in a sense fair...everybody needs work. But at least do a goodjob!
Because of course....they dont..then they get fired, then I get called in, to finish there jobs and do touch-ups over everything they did, as I see them packing up the only tools they have, a mud pan and a knife.
No mixing drill because they couldnt wait to get paid so they hawked it for beer. Welcome to Ontario. lol


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Sorry to cause unrest CrpntrFrk.
> Didnt mean any insult to anyone by it.
> Its just honestly, around these parts, any taper i've met with a mud pan and a large handled knife instead of a trowel just suck.
> Not to say everyone worldwide does.
> ...


It's all good here. I was over it before I completed my last post. It's just that I am one of those who uses a mud pan and knife. 

I might have to try to post a video before too long to show you H & T guys how we do it.:laughing:

I would have broke your cute little plastic pan too. Those are for HOs IMO. All my pans are stainless steel. By the way all my drywall knifes have Marshalltown on them also!:thumbup:


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

CrpntrFrk said:


> It's all good here. I was over it before I completed my last post. It's just that I am one of those who uses a mud pan and knife.
> 
> I might have to try to post a video before too long to show you H & T guys how we do it.:laughing:
> 
> I would have broke your cute little plastic pan too. Those are for HOs IMO. All my pans are stainless steel. By the way all my drywall knifes have Marshalltown on them also!:thumbup:


haha! I was 16 man! Plastic mud pan seemed to be the way to go. :laughing: 
And ya bro! Post a video! Show me how its done :thumbsup: hehe
And ya ya, marshalltown makes drywall knives too...lol.
Just not for me those things.
Props to people who are good with them.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

OK, group hug.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)




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## What If (Feb 4, 2012)

About a few comments on this thread:

For those who assume that because someone is using pan and knife they don't know how to use hawk and trowel, you might be wrong. At least a couple of our company's tapers had to switch over from h&t, because of worn body parts. Now they're wearing out some other ones. 

I've worked beside and behind h&t guys. Some were good, some were hacks, who thought they were good because they were h&t guys. I wait and see what a guy can actually do, with either h&t, or pan and knife.

On 'the great learning curve' needed to run a bazooka: The girl I trained on one a couple months ago did better than I did when I started - she was running flats, corners, taping out patches without overlapping the tapes, in no time. Pretty much a matter of minutes for being able to do each one quite well, after I showed her a couple key things. I'd have to do the 8' high flats though, if the board was lay downs.

Can't justify or use a bazooka? Maybe try a banjo, or use 2 in tandem. With a little practice, they can be quick, and don't break down easily. They're also a good backup for if and when a bazooka does break enough that it can't be readily fixed.
And I don't clean my banjo that well, except for every once in a long while. It sits wrapped in a plastic bag, till the next time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HriKOf4aMZk


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 7, 2010)

Oh I half to comment PT

Yes I'm a H&T guy, I find it faster (started out on P&K) But I do got some taping buddies who are good P&K guys........ but lets forget about them and talk about me instead.:whistling

I still own mud pans, If you came to work with me, and pulled out a hawk to wipe tape, I would be like WTF. I get where your coming from, some guys get into H&T vs P&K,,, but then they end up not learning the value of a hawk or mud pan. Both are a tool, bottom line:thumbsup:


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## Mudshark (Feb 12, 2009)

Pan and knife :whistling


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## What If (Feb 4, 2012)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Here's a video like I promised DisantoDrywall.
> Sorry for the delay and the poor video quality, we just filmed it on our iphone to give you an idea of how effective a compound tube, a roller and a flusher can be.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVkjBxlVScI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
> We taped this room in under 13 minutes.


Reaching that way to get the ceiling tapes on, someone's going to hurt themselves one day, PT. :laughing:

Here's another video using a compound tube for putting on tapes, made by a DWT member, using a wipe down knife to make putting on ceiling tapes easier. Also notice the difference in putting on corner tapes, and things like no mud running down walls to have to clean up after. Not sure about the no roller thing, though. But mudslingr seems to be able to get away with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S99DUwiNKgM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

I also see you're fighting a bit with wiping down using 6" knives. Ever thought of maybe an 8"? One with a stiff enough blade can carry mud faster, cleaner, longer, with less trips back to your hawk to wipe off. A Sheetrock stainless 8" works well enough for me.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

What If said:


> Can't justify or use a bazooka? Maybe try a banjo, or use 2 in tandem. With a little practice, they can be quick, and don't break down easily. They're also a good backup for if and when a bazooka does break enough that it can't be readily fixed.
> And I don't clean my banjo that well, except for every once in a long while. It sits wrapped in a plastic bag, till the next time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HriKOf4aMZk


Yep! Banjos are great for the smaller projects for sure. :thumbsup:
Cool video. Is it just me or does it look like that ceiling in the video needs a few more fasteners? :whistling


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

What If said:


> Reaching that way to get the ceiling tapes on, someone's going to hurt themselves one day, PT. :laughing:
> 
> Here's another video using a compound tube for putting on tapes, made by a DWT member, using a wipe down knife to make putting on ceiling tapes easier. Also notice the difference in putting on corner tapes, and things like no mud running down walls to have to clean up after. Not sure about the no roller thing, though. But mudslingr seems to be able to get away with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S99DUwiNKgM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
> 
> I also see you're fighting a bit with wiping down using 6" knives. Ever thought of maybe an 8"? One with a stiff enough blade can carry mud faster, cleaner, longer, with less trips back to your hawk to wipe off. A Sheetrock stainless 8" works well enough for me.


A little stretching to tape from the floor is my morning exercise 
And ya using a wipedown knife is a good idea if you're going to tape from the floor. Usually myself or one of my guys would be on stilts when taping. We just did it this way because it was only 1 bedroom.
And I know what you mean about the no mud running down the corner, however thats because we use a smaller flusher. We use 2.5" because I find it doesnt build up as much when taping. Keeps things nice and tight and my skim with the 3" goes very smoothly. So I prefer cleaning the over-spill because I find it gives me a nicer corner.
And ya, I might pick up an 8", thats not a bad idea.
My 6" is my universal. I use it for everything.




2buckcanuck said:


> Oh I half to comment PT
> 
> Yes I'm a H&T guy, I find it faster (started out on P&K) But I do got some taping buddies who are good P&K guys........ but lets forget about them and talk about me instead.:whistling
> 
> I still own mud pans, If you came to work with me, and pulled out a hawk to wipe tape, I would be like WTF. I get where your coming from, some guys get into H&T vs P&K,,, but then they end up not learning the value of a hawk or mud pan. Both are a tool, bottom line:thumbsup:


And how did I not know you would jump in on this too 2Buck!
But you're absolutely right. Both are tools of the trade. Never know...maybe one of these days you'll catch me in a video using a mudpan. 
You and CrpntrFrk have opened up my eyes :laughing:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 7, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Exactly!!
> Good comment.
> Here's a video like I promised DisantoDrywall.
> Sorry for the delay and the poor video quality, we just filmed it on our iphone to give you an idea of how effective a compound tube, a roller and a flusher can be.
> ...


holy, how did I miss this yesterday:blink:

From ready your 1st post on CT, Then watching this vid, you know I would half to comment:laughing:

How can you go from running the slop bucket, to bazooka, then to cp tube. Now from my experience, the order of operating speed, the bazooka is number one, slop bucket number two, banjo number three, then the compound tube, your sorta going backwards.

your complaints about the bazooka (zook) are operating error. Yes they are not a good machine to be self taught on. But your complaints of it, with dry spots in the angle tapes, are from you, not the machine. Classic tale of faulting the machine, and not the man behind the machine. I have been taping for over thirty years, I don't seem to have these maintenance issues you have with the zook. maybe a dull blade every few months, that's about it. But newbs on the zook, tend to break the darndest things on them, to where you half to go,"how to fk did you do that:blink:, And to say the zook might be too fast, I don't think that would be classified as a complaint in todays world

And yes, when I first started, I ran the slop bucket, I will never go back (except for fire tape) CP tube, sure it's clean, but it's slow, it's a good system for a part time taper, or to pull out for something that is small to do.....

So..... since you think 13 minutes is fast for that room, watch these vids. In the one vid, it's a northstar zook their running, not a Columbia. And in the second vid, thought I would show a older fart like me running one. Except than guy should learn to prefill 1st

And PT, don't 1st coat your screws with taping mud:no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpljwt4syTw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUjSQFyYfn4


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> holy, how did I miss this yesterday:blink:
> 
> From ready your 1st post on CT, Then watching this vid, you know I would half to comment:laughing:
> 
> ...



okay wo wo wo. I gave the bazooka compliments as well.
Going fast was one of them. That wasnt a bad thing.
Another thing, yes, I have tried many different ways of taping. I worked with my bazooka everyday for a year until a part went on it. And at that point so early in my business I depended on that bazooka. Then I had to wait for over a week for parts. Then I fixed it all up with my new parts and not 2 weeks later one my labourers bumped it and it fell over and kinked something which stops pinches my chain now...So I can cut the tape but then the chain and blade stays stuck on that side of it. It wont retract back. So since then, it's been in storage. I only just took it out of storage 2 weeks ago to see if I can get it running again. Because dont get me wrong. Bazookas are great. But for someone who's just starting off with little experince in taping tools I dont think its the way to go. Its a big investment to make for us broke ass tapers.

And yes those videos are impressive. But all they do is show the guy running forward with the bazooka. Only doing flats and butt joints.
With at least 2 wipers behind him! Maybe even 3.
And yes, a bazooka is hands down way faster! But not as fast as they depict in those videos! They dont show a room getting completed uncut. With my fancy HD Camera and my editing software I can make it look like I taped a house in under 5 minutes like these guys did!

What they dont show you on camera is the morons on stilts running after the falling tapes trying to catch them before they slap the bazooka runner in the back of the head. And they dont show the wipers cutting back the tapes so that they're not over lapping by 2 inches.
Because yes, I did see it in the video. Where the guy does a butt joint, then runs his flat over it and you can still clearly see that the tape from the butt joint underneath his flat tape. At least cut them so they're not over lapping...c'mon.

Anyways, 13 minutes might not be record time, but that was only 2 guys, uncut. There was no stopping and fast forwarding. One room, completely taped with screws spotted.
Wait until I get my bazooka up and running! I'll show you what they can really do!! i'll make a real video! 
From start to finish, one bedroom! Not pretend to tape a whole house doing only flats and butts. Pfft. 

oh! and I use Machine Mud for everything!
Nothing wrong with doing screws with that.
*"Lightweight machine or hand application compound for taping, filling and finishing" *
Here's the spec sheet. 
Argue with CGC about it 
http://www.cgcinc.com/media/29336/ejc_1621.pdf


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 7, 2010)

Todays war:laughing:

Under 5 minutes to tape out that room with a zook with 2 guys. and man, if my zook were to break down, get stolen or something. I would have a new one the next day. So I would say nay to a vid on the zook, till you learn to run it right. But if you want, the vid with the older guy, you can hunt for the un-cut version on youtube, it shows him going back to wipe the tapes and blah blah blah, that version was edited to just show the tube running. To me, he's just going along at a normal pace, think he even said he could pick up the pace if he wanted to.

And yes I know what machine mud is, and even told the cgc rep it was [email protected] It's purpose was a mud that required less water for mixing (few large timmy cups) compared to a AP mud that may require almost ten cups of water. So the theory was, it would keep better bonding properties, and to me it's bonding properties suck. IMO, if you really love the stuff, get some mud max or white glue in with your mud, to get a superior bond. Also, I find hand tapers tend to like the product better than most machine tapers. It's too soft a mud, takes 4x longer to dry than most muds in OUR market. scratches too easy, requires a 300 grit or higher to sand to get proper finish (ok, a bit of a exaggeration:whistling), and most of all, issues when painted, flaking issues that appear down the road. Not a good mud for warranty work.

And no, I still would not coat my screws with this mud well mixed as taping mud, straight stiff right out of the box..... Young buck:clap:


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Todays war:laughing:
> 
> Under 5 minutes to tape out that room with a zook with 2 guys. and man, if my zook were to break down, get stolen or something. I would have a new one the next day. So I would say nay to a vid on the zook, till you learn to run it right. But if you want, the vid with the older guy, you can hunt for the un-cut version on youtube, it shows him going back to wipe the tapes and blah blah blah, that version was edited to just show the tube running. To me, he's just going along at a normal pace, think he even said he could pick up the pace if he wanted to.
> 
> ...


Who said I couldnt run a bazooka right!?
I am more than capable of running one, just suggested that for someone who's inexperienced its not the way to go. They are initially allot of work and have a steep learning curve. But like I said in my first ever post on CT, once you get the hang of them! You fly.
So I will make a video! I'll get it up and running! 

And as for Machine Mud, I've never had any problems with it!
I never have any bubbled tapes and I just find it to be the best mud out there. I used to use CGC Green Box mud just for putting my tapes on because of the added glue and then switch to Machine Mud for coating but eventually just switched everything over to Machine Mud.
Never had any problems. Love the stuff.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

BTW! Wars on!! :2guns: Haha! :laughing:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 7, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Who said I couldnt run a bazooka right!?
> I am more than capable of running one, just suggested that for someone who's inexperienced its not the way to go. They are initially allot of work and have a steep learning curve. But like I said in my first ever post on CT, once you get the hang of them! You fly.
> So I will make a video! I'll get it up and running!


Maybe you can run the zook, but I find it odd you would pack it away in a closet, b/c it has a boo boo on it. That would be like having Pamela Anderson for a girl friend(younger days:whistling) but you would still prefer to do things by a hand method:laughing:

So yes I sensed or assumed you were having frustrations with the zook, in order to pack it away like that. Just makes no bloody sense to me at all. Post some pics of your zook or something, what brand is it. Ill help you get going again. You say it got knocked over, happens all the time, could be something Minor.

lets start with the brand


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

The only way I could see putting my blue line in the closet is if the tube was bent or something but even then I would be getting a new tube fast. 

Brings me back to when I got my tools. It was like a kid on Christmas morning. I had a smile for days. I love that thing. I wish I could use it more!!


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

I want to invest soon in more tools. I went over to drywall talk awhile ago and asked. Got a mediocre response. I got the impression that a lot of 1 time posters ask that question and move on. Kinda like over here.

I got a bazooka (wilco) and love it. It's fast for sure. I want to invest in mud tubes and boxes. 

What do you guys run. I heard about a tube you don't have to push, some sort of gas set up.

Now that I have your attention over here at CT give me a link.


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## What If (Feb 4, 2012)

Paulie said:


> I want to invest soon in more tools. I went over to drywall talk awhile ago and asked. Got a mediocre response. I got the impression that a lot of 1 time posters ask that question and move on. Kinda like over here.
> 
> I got a bazooka (wilco) and love it. It's fast for sure. I want to invest in mud tubes and boxes.
> 
> ...


Latest post I made today about tubes at DWT, under my user name there, JustMe: http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/whats-your-corner-system-2922/#post50031

You could also use the search function over there, with such terms as 'mud tube', 'cp tube', 'applicator tube', to see what comes up.

As for the gas powered tube - a MudRunner - I'd say start with the other std. tubes, till you're sure you could use one. My experience with the MR - run one twice, not overly impressed as yet. But I'll give it some more time: http://www.tapetech.com/products/Corner-Applicators/Mudrunner


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 7, 2010)

Paulie said:


> I want to invest soon in more tools. I went over to drywall talk awhile ago and asked. Got a mediocre response. I got the impression that a lot of 1 time posters ask that question and move on. Kinda like over here.
> 
> I got a bazooka (wilco) and love it. It's fast for sure. I want to invest in mud tubes and boxes.
> 
> ...


no ,your right, DWT is more of a current events place now, and there are excellent responses that guys have typed up on things. tough part is finding the good stuff, We tend to clown around over there more, and go off track:whistling

But in a nutshell, The top competitors are

Columbia - They chat on DWT all the time, you have a problem, their there for you right away. They care about their customers, and make good tools.

Tape Tec - well ????? their good, their the creators of the automatic tools (Ames), few issues with them, their changing to keep up with customer service, Mike From TT, comes on DWT, he takes a beating some times,,, but hey, their tools are good, but,,,, keep away from their boxes IMO, and their over priced pump

Drywall Master - good stuff, maybe got the best angle flushers on the market. We know their watching, but they remain Silent on the forums.

Premiere/blue line/tapepro - Never used their stuff, but guys say their tough tools, take a beating. Tomg from tapepro (Australia ) is on DWT, he will help with things

North star - Out of business, maybe made some of the best stuff, but pricey 

In one way, I don't think it matters which one of these brands you get . With me personally, I own TT zook, NS boxes, Columbia handles , DM angle heads, etc......

Sometimes I think it's best to go with what ever your supply house sells in your area, just in case you need a part or something.

Like,,,, if you lined up a DM, TT, and Col zook beside each other, and examined them for the difference in them, you would see none so.......

Also, if your a DWT member, walltools will give you a 10% discount on stuff, and they have good customer service, (think all wall offers same deal too)

Any other questions:laughing:


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

What If said:


> Latest post I made today about tubes at DWT, under my user name there, JustMe: http://www.drywalltalk.com/f7/whats-your-corner-system-2922/#post50031
> 
> You could also use the search function over there, with such terms as 'mud tube', 'cp tube', 'applicator tube', to see what comes up.
> 
> As for the gas powered tube - a MudRunner - I'd say start with the other std. tubes, till you're sure you could use one. My experience with the MR - run one twice, not overly impressed as yet. But I'll give it some more time: http://www.tapetech.com/products/Corner-Applicators/Mudrunner


Just went over there and checked it out. Thanks. Will be lurking over there when the search button is up and working.

Spend some time over here, your experience with tools is a nice addition to the drywall section.


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## What If (Feb 4, 2012)

Paulie said:


> I want to invest in mud tubes and boxes.
> 
> What do you guys run.


For my main boxes, I run Columbia - 8" FatBoy, 10" FatBoy, and 12" finishing box.

The 12" FatBoys are a little heavy and awkward I found for the finish coat. But the 8" and !0" FatBoys are good for loading your flats with a 1st coat. The weight is easy enough to handle, yet can go further.

I've also used especially the 10" to 1st coat corner bead, especially the undersides of bulkheads. That can use some mud, so a FatBoy is good for that, too. They're also nice if you're boxing your butt joints at times with a 1st coat. Again, more mud available.

I don't use the 8" much. But I'm thinking about maybe trying going from 8" to then jumping up to 12" on the flats. In our commercial work, we usually do 2 coats only.

Some guys on DWT only go 10" wide - 8" and then 10" - which is fine, if you don't have too much in the way of high shoulders to deal with. But our GCs are used to seeing 12" on the wall, so that's what I give them. And I do run into a fair amount of high shoulders on the board I do.

I also use a 10" TapeTech Power Assist box for the 1st coating of harder to do areas, like the 8' high flat on laid down boards. I use it off stilts. If I start using an 8" for the 1st coat, I'll likely try replacing using the TT with the Columbia 8". The TT box isn't the quality the Columbia boxes are, and the 8" is an easier box to push on well enough, than is a 10".


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm 99% sure I'll go with the Columbia boxes, hot mud pump. Not sure of the handle. I see this new fangled handle that caught my eye. Handle

The mud tubes are a area I'm really not sure about. I'll do my research but really like to hear from the guys that runs one.

I'll never be drywall only company but we do all our drywall in additions, kitchens, bathrooms and basements. I want to get in fast and be done. 90% of the time we leave a white box for the HO since they always want to paint themselves. Primer comes with our price, non negotiable.

But I'll be investing in late April so it was great to have some of you mesh lovin', sheep heads over here.

Thanks, Paul B.


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 7, 2010)

Paulie said:


> I'm 99% sure I'll go with the Columbia boxes, hot mud pump. Not sure of the handle. I see this new fangled handle that caught my eye. Handle
> 
> The mud tubes are a area I'm really not sure about. I'll do my research but really like to hear from the guys that runs one.
> 
> ...


That's a good rule to keep with the primer. A home owner can screw up a good tape job fast:thumbsup:


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## What If (Feb 4, 2012)

Paulie said:


> I'm 99% sure I'll go with the Columbia boxes, hot mud pump. Not sure of the handle. I see this new fangled handle that caught my eye. Handle


Along with Columbia boxes - a post I made about a minute before you posted your last one, if you didn't see it - I run an older style handle like that one. Because of the reach and 'fit' differences I can get into - eg. down hallways, lower to higher ceilings, bulkheads - I don't think there would be a handle quite as handy for me.

I like the newer design of the handle head. Mine only has a 90 degree swing, while the new style is 180 degree.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

2buckcanuck said:


> Maybe you can run the zook, but I find it odd you would pack it away in a closet, b/c it has a boo boo on it. That would be like having Pamela Anderson for a girl friend(younger days:whistling) but you would still prefer to do things by a hand method:laughing:
> 
> So yes I sensed or assumed you were having frustrations with the zook, in order to pack it away like that. Just makes no bloody sense to me at all. Post some pics of your zook or something, what brand is it. Ill help you get going again. You say it got knocked over, happens all the time, could be something Minor.
> 
> lets start with the brand


Whats wrong with doing things by hand!? :laughing:
And it didnt have a boo boo! lol. It didn't work! Something pinched the linkage which goes back and forth and cuts the tape. So the chain linkage would get jammed on one side after i'd pull the handgrip.
Then I just got over it. Had too many jobs on the go, never bothered to get it fixed. Its a Columbia.

Which by the way is where I went off too for the last 3 hours.
I went and pulled it off my jobsite so I could try to work on it at home. Try to figure out the problem.
I worked with it all the time for about a year, until it crapped out on me twice within 2 weeks. And that was it. She went into storage.
And that was almost 3 years ago now. When i was 20.
My current employees didnt even know I had a bazooka up until 2 weeks ago and they were all like "WTF!? Why aren't we using that!?"
haha! So needless to say im gonna fix it up and get er going again.

Im giving her a bath right now. I'll upload some pics in a bit 2Buck.
That way you can take a look and maybe help me out with the problem.


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

Okay! So here's where the problem lies...








*Ideas? Solutions!?*
So more or less, I pull the handle, the blade slides across and cuts the tape but gets jammed on that side...
Doesnt retract back. I have to like wedge a nail under the chain and pull on it from the other side for it to come back.
The spring tensions not strong enough to un-wedge it.


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## Kiwiman (Mar 28, 2008)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Okay! So here's where the problem lies...
> View attachment 64986
> 
> 
> ...


I replaced the cutter block insert and the rollers on mine and it ran like new again, very cheap and easy to fix yourself, it should solve your problem :thumbsup:


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## 2buckcanuck (Jul 7, 2010)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Okay! So here's where the problem lies...
> View attachment 64986
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, your going to force me to wash my Bazooka, so you can know what it should look like

But from what your pic shows, it should be a easy fix.

Release the chain, get it out of the way, and find some needle nose pliers, you will need some.

and let me go wash mine, so you can see what it should look like:laughing:


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## PrecisionTaping (Jan 8, 2012)

Kiwiman said:


> I replaced the cutter block insert and the rollers on mine and it ran like new again, very cheap and easy to fix yourself, it should solve your problem :thumbsup:


Alright, i'll look into that.



2buckcanuck said:


> Damn, your going to force me to wash my Bazooka, so you can know what it should look like
> 
> But from what your pic shows, it should be a easy fix.
> 
> ...


Okay! Go wash yours 2Buck! lol


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## What If (Feb 4, 2012)

PrecisionTaping said:


> Okay! So here's where the problem lies...
> View attachment 64986
> 
> 
> ...


Your drive sprocket chain is looking a little tight. It looks like what's called the 'Chain Tension and Guide Bracket' got bent back, and could be putting tension on that chain. The bracket is the part to the left of your cutter chain and the cutter block guide, and should stick out at 90 degrees from the chain/cutter guide - enough so it's out of the way of the drive sprocket chain. Bending that back out might help take some of the 'tweak' you could've put into square tube knife guide, which might be causing the pinching. Note: The bracket piece itself does have a couple of bends in it from the factory, so for the moment I'd maybe just try to straighten the bracket end out till it's at a 90, and see what that does. If it doesn't do enough, tweaking that whole side to straighten it might be needed(?)


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## What If (Feb 4, 2012)

Btw: When I say "tweaking that whole side to straighten it might be needed(?)", I'm more meaning pulling out the side the chain tension bracket is attached to. It could've gotten pinched especially down low on that side, as you said you'd wedge something under the cutter chain to get it free(?)

Anyway, that's my best guess right now.


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