# Help, my electrician has gone missing!



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

So I had my electrician wire up my 2nd and 3rd floor remodel. We put a sub-panel on the 3rd floor and fed all the 2nd and 3rd floors from there. He did the rough about a year ago, and I'm just getting to the finish stage now. Problem is, my electrician isn't around anymore. For the most part, that's. I problem. I've wired all the breakers, switches and outlets myself, no problem. Up until this point. 

At my 2nd floor landing, I have a 3-gang switch box. This was the intention:
-single pole switch for 2nd floor landing
-3-pole switch for chandelier over stairwell
-3-pole switch for 1st floor hallway

In this 3-gang box, I have 5 wires coming in. I've run continuity tests to determine what they do:

-14/2 for 2nd fl. landing switch leg
-14/2 for stairwell chandelier 
-14/2 for 1st fl. switch leg
-14/3 to 1st floor switch box
-14/3 to 1st floor switch box

The stairwell chandelier has the 14/2 going to the switch box, and a 14/2 going to the sub-panel. I believe that 14/2 is to feed the chandelier lift, as ever other light he wired, the feed comes into the switch. 

It appears that I am simply missing a feed to the switch box, and that I can pull a feed up from the outlet below. 

I'm just not sure if I'm missing something that he was intending to do, or did he just screw up? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I can take some pictures and load them up here if that helps.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

A year later, I'd have trouble remembering what my plan was.

Can you draw that up in schematic form? Doing so might help clear it up for you.


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

I've drawn it up, and it ain't helping me!!

I can only think it's missing a feed. I mean, can you think any situation where a 3 gang switch box with (2) 3-pole and (1) single pole switches would only need 5 wires (12 leads) coming in? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

maybe power is fed to the lights and the switches are just looped? I can't tell you w/o being there....Heat it up and figure out where hots are if you know how without zappin yourself


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes I can. But I'm a bit too fried from this week to work out what's going on from your text description--not sure a schematic would do any better. :laughing:

Bottom line, sometimes you just have to give up on whatever the original plan was and just do whatever it takes to make it work.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)




----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

If I snap some pics of what I got and some schematics, would that help you help me? I'm gonna try to get some time tomorrow to troubleshoot it more. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks 480, hadn't thought of that. 

The reason I hadn't thought about that, is I'm not 100 years old. I don't know what the big book is, and I have no clue what that curly wire is sticking out of that device. Is that the new iPhone?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


>


They start at [email protected] around here. Where he's at they're probably north of $120


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Pics are pretty pointless [alliteration alert!] for something like that. Schematics are much better, if done well.

But Ken does have a point; getting an electrician on site might be quite a bit less painful in the long run.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> They start at [email protected] around here. Where he's at they're probably north of $120


So it's not worth any money to have the problem solved?


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Irishslave said:


> They start at [email protected] around here. Where he's at they're probably north of $120




I don't mind paying to get this right, but if I can tap some of my resources and figure it out, that'd be great. I love a challenge outside my comfort zone. This is my house, so it's not like I'm experimenting on someone else's home. Also, yea this fix would cost me $400-$500. Wouldn't mind saving that. But like I said, if I can't figure it out on my own, I'll gladly pay someone to fix it. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

let me know if you want to call in the sparky's. I have a really great guy out of stamford. If he is not to busy.


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> So it's not worth any money to have the problem solved?


Is that all you think about? money? I swear you guys are as bad as lawyers :laughing:


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Anderson said:


> let me know if you want to call in the sparky's. I have a really great guy out of stamford. If he is not to busy.




Thanks!!! I might need to take you up on that. I'll let you know come Monday!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

If your rough in electrician was legitimately an electrician, then any other legitimate electrician SHOULD be able to figure out his "pattern" and get that fixed up for you and trim it out.:thumbsup:


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> Is that all you think about? money? I swear you guys are as bad as lawyers :laughing:


No. There's sex and guns, too. :whistling


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't get the question. 3 pole? You mean SPDT, 3-way, what?

It's wired for one SPST and 2 SPDT switches. I don't see the issue.


----------



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> Is that all you think about? money? I swear you guys are as bad as lawyers :laughing:


When we're paying bills, we sometimes have to think about money. Sorry about that.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Irishslave said:


> They start at [email protected] around here. Where he's at they're probably north of $120


$50, and no driving charge. I call my electrician for a hang nail.


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

hdavis said:


> I don't get the question. 3 pole? You mean SPDT, 3-way, what?
> 
> 
> 
> It's wired for one SPST and 2 SPDT switches. I don't see the issue.




Yes, I have one SPST and 2 SPDT. The way this electrician wires, and the way he taught me, leads me to believe there should be 14 leads coming in to the box- 2 for the feed, 6 for the switch legs, and 6 from the 14/3 running to the separate boxes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> When we're paying bills, we sometimes have to think about money. Sorry about that.


Remember that sparky outfit I was grousing about last year?....they ended up with over 10k in their hand and still didn't finish....I had to end up tying up loose ends...and the thermostats for the 220 heaters that were payed for were never received. 

I'm gonna PM you their name....I'm sure you heard of them they are licensed in about 4 or 5 states


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Normally the SPDTs are wired with 14-3.

You have to do the same thing with the 1st floor box wires, and you also have to establish what wires power is brought in on before you can really do much else. I'd check the first and second floor boxes for power, it could come in either way.


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Here's what I got. The only wires I can't identify are the (2) 14/3 wires coming into the 2nd floor hall light. I'll need to try and figure those out tomorrow. 

Here's the schematic:









Here's the 2nd floor hall light with the 14/3's I haven't identified:











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kapena (Aug 20, 2004)

gbruzze1 said:


> Here's what I got. The only wires I can't identify are the (2) 14/3 wires coming into the 2nd floor hall light. I'll need to try and figure those out tomorrow.


The (2)14/3 wires look to be just a splice in the box.


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Use one of the 14/3's for the feed.


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> Use one of the 14/3's for the feed.




Could you explain what you mean a little more


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

gbruzze1 said:


> Could you explain what you mean a little more
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Seems like you have an extra 14/3. Use half of it for the feed, and cap the red one. I'm thinking he had more 14/3 on hand than 14/2. Think it through, though. Just my quick 2 cents.

Edit: Not "extra", but one of them seems to have no other function than to be a feed. It could have been 14/2, but he had a roll of 14/3. So you'll have an extra conductor. Cap it.


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

....

Scratch that. I forgot about the subpanel. Maybe the intention is to use the 14/2. You could supply the chandelier switch and also have a hot for everything else.


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Update:

I went off the assumption that a feed was never brought in for these lights. I brought a temp feed in and wired everything up as would normally be done. Turned power back on and everything is working well. I had to undo s couple things the electrician did originally. He spliced all the neutrals together in the 3 gang box. Had to take out the 14/3 neutrals and use them as travelers for the 3-ways. 

Is there any way that the electrician could have had it right, and I don't need to bring a feed in to this box?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

Wow a year from the rough, i hope you have had some inspections along the way cuz in these parts that permit is no longer valid, get a sparky with a valid ticket to come and look at the job your are going to need a final on the wiring.


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Every AHJ has their own regs. I'm good for where I am. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kapena (Aug 20, 2004)

gbruzze1 said:


> Is there any way that the electrician could have had it right, and I don't need to bring a feed in to this box?


The feed (hot) wire should already be at the switch.


----------



## Jamato (Apr 9, 2017)

I'm a little late to the party (just joined CT today) Did you get it figured out?

Seems to me that the feed is coming from the chandelier lift. 

That will make the chandelier switching work but the neutral gets left in the light box and you won't have a 120V feed for the other two switches.


----------



## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Jamato said:


> I'm a little late to the party (just joined CT today) Did you get it figured out?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes and no. 

I snaked a feed up to the 3 gang switch box from an outlet below. Wired it all up and everything is working properly. 

I'm still not sure if the electrician just forgot to bring a feed to the switch box, or was planning something else. Either way, the lights work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

