# I'm gonna give Pro Panel a shot, with HydroBan



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

It looks like I may have a job go through and tile selections are this weekend for the customer. Its a tub replacement with tile walls and niche but the problem being turnover time as the only shower. I looked into many options and different pricing but a few others around here used Pro Panel by finpan and like it so I'm going to give it a whirl and try to speed up the process a bit.
I talked to Jeff from FinPan and he went over the specs and I like it so far being that you can use modified thinset and mesh/liquid for the seams or sika flex caulking. 3x5 sheets are 17 bux so the price seems ok and ill be adding some additional blocking for support. I got a chance to look it over today at Conestoga Tile so I figured, why not... Anyone else here use it??


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

Look forward to your results and opinions. Speed turnovers are always something that could be improved. Owners/family get testy after a few days without their shower.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

A major bonus is that it is considerably cheaper per sq ft than kerdi board and modified thinsets are recomended.
Only 6 pounds per sheet :clap:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

What's the benefit over DensShield (aside from weight)?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

No denshield here... ProPanel is waterproofed/tile ready board. Only the seams and nail pops need hydrobanned or sika flexed...


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Tech Dawg said:


> ProPanel is waterproofed/tile ready board. Only the seams and nail pops need hydrobanned or sika flexed...


So is DensShield. So again, I ask. What's the benefit?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I dunno Angus... I thought about giving one of these brands of foam board a try one day. Wedi isn't around here and the Kerdi board is pretty high priced so id like to compare with other methods. Ill be boarding the walls from tub to ceiling, 8.5 feet off the floor so that's where the lighter weight became appealing


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

angus242 said:


> So is DensShield. So again, I ask. What's the benefit?


So do you use Denshield or CBU in your showers Angus? I looked into ProPanel and its price point is good but availability is 1 1/2 away.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Todd you know I have looked at these types of boards before.

I think they have too much flex.

Why not get your hardie board or whatever and pre-paint them with Hydro Ban.

Why not drop in some temporary poly so the client can bathe and built the project as always.

Faster, quicker, cheaper is not always better.

JW


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## Mike- (Aug 20, 2011)

JohnFRWhipple said:


> Todd you know I have looked at these types of boards before.
> 
> I think they have too much flex.
> 
> ...


I went with Aqau Tough for a go round in this current bathroom remodel and the deflection is minimal. It is pretty easy to cut. 

Like a Chubb. The stiffer the better eh John!,,


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Jdub,
I thought you said before that additional blocking or ply behind would make a better install, so what's wrong with that? I had figured on adding the blocking for support throughout...


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm not giving you a hard time, dawg. Just being inquisitive. 

Around here, DensShield is under $9 for 3x5. It offers the exact same benefits but is a bit heavier and might not cut quite as easily. No blocking necessary. No specialty fasteners. 

I'm trying to see where the time savings are at. If you have to start adding blocking, there isn't any. Cost is also not a benefit.

I suppose if you want to use it just to use it, that's a different story. Can't argue with that :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

overanalyze said:


> So do you use Denshield or CBU in your showers Angus? I looked into ProPanel and its price point is good but availability is 1 1/2 away.


No. I had been using DensArmor and Kerdi. Now that I've moved away from Kerdi, I'm using Permabase and Aqua Defense.


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## mbobbish734 (Apr 28, 2011)

mike- said:


> i went with aqau tough for a go round in this current bathroom remodel and the deflection is minimal. It is pretty easy to cut.
> 
> Like a chubb. The stiffer the better eh john!,,


lmao


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## the rock (Feb 27, 2011)

Horrible english


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

:blink:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

That's why I started the thread... I can still change it out and use perma w/ hban or noble... I'm just looking for first hand experiences with these foam panel products. I'm 3/4 of the way sold.
As for blocking, it doesn't take me very long. Another thought was to sister up studs to reduce the opening inbetween stud bays. Apparently these panels are designed for 16" on center but I would think a little overkill makes it better.
I wouldn't want to pre-hydroban cbu in fear or flex etc... If board isn't flat or a dip in a stud causes flex while install and cause a problem with dried membrane. For a liquid, id rather have the board glued/screwed then apply


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I've used DensShield before. I have not used foam. I don't think I would. Perhaps the only scenario that I'd consider is adhering it directly to a foundation wall where deflection won't be an issue.

I'm not a fan of DensShield (no good reason why) but I still don't see foam being more efficient than it; especially when you would block/sister for extra support. 

Are you considering DensShield at all or are foam or Permabase you're only considerations?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

There is no Denshield around here that I know of. I've never heard of it until hearing you talk about it. Round here is Cbu and the waterproofers of course, kerdi board and this pro panel... 
One fella I know has been using it since 2009 with no problems or callbacks and the one other guy that I know installed 68 sheets in one house (new construction) total 7 baths w/ one large shower and a large steam shower so that's what raised my questions because although I've received 2 good reviews, that typically isn't enough for me.

The fact the board is inexpensive has no weight really. Jdub mentioned that cheaper and quicker is not better but kerdi board is waaaayyy more expensive so would that boost up his rating a little more since its "more" expensive :laughing: personally I wouldn't want to use Hardi backer because I think its cheap crap.
Guess ill be using some Perma and HydroBan :wallbash: :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Tech Dawg said:


> There is no Denshield around here that I know of.


Perhaps there is....


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Ill have to call Ciesco and ask, I buy minimal stuff from them but that's where I get my Sheetrock 5 minute hot mud.

I searched both Lowes and Depot, Mechanicsburg and Harrisburg (4 stores) within the last 3 months and they didn't have it


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Prolly special order at those locations. I wouldn't deal with that :no:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I've never heard of Strober but there's so many lumber yards around here that I purposefully try to not keep up, if ya know what I mean...
6 years ago lowes was selling what I think is Densarmor and depot was probably selling it for awhile as well but I haven't seen it there in years. They are probably still on the list and special order. Ciesco is strictly a DW supplier but their price is the same for contractors and any joe shmoe offthe street. Either way, id like to switch from paper drywall to the fiberglass back for general drywall work so I'm going to give them a call


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Lowes actually sells (sold) a rebranded version called DensGuard. It was Lowe's blue. DensShield is gray.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Lowes actually sells (sold) a rebranded version called DensGuard. It was Lowe's blue. DensShield is gray.


I dunno... There's so many Dens's it gets confusing :laughing:

The fiberglass stuff I used was white/light grey and I remember yellow paper holding 2 sheets together (guess that means it wasn't paperless.........)


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

That sounds like DensArmor and it's 2 sheets of fiberglass mesh sandwiching a gypsum core.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

angus242 said:


> That sounds like DensArmor and it's 2 sheets of fiberglass mesh sandwiching a gypsum core.


4x8?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

yep


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Yeah, that's what it was... Haven't seen that at lowes in 5 or 6 years. I think china gives them a better deal on the purple stuff :laughing:


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

Todd if you use somekind of board or foam that is already waterproofed (whatever you decide) What you gonna do to speed up the process with the pan? You gonna use the mapei that can be aqua'd in 1 hr or 3 hrs (whatever the setting time is)? or you gonna do a schluter pan? Or you know of some other kind of premade pan?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

bluebird5 said:


> You gonna use the mapei that can be aqua'd in 1 hr or 3 hrs (whatever the setting time is)?


There seems to be some confusion on the time with it. Had 1 rep say 4 hours. Had another _and_ tech support say 12-14. I'd go with the 12-14 just to be safe.

Either way, Aqua Defense can be applied next day unlike waiting 72 hours for a typical sand/portland mix.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Its a tub with tile walls...


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

Angus, whats it called again? Mapecem or something like that?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Mapecem Premixed


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm looking at these specs. http://www.mapei.com/public/CA/products/MapecemPremix_TDS_EA.pdf

And it says...

• Repairs concrete from 1/4" to 4" (6 mm to 10 cm)
• Allows tile setting in 3 to 4 hours​• Allows installation of floor coverings in 16 to 18 hours
Do not use in areas where hydrostatic or moisture problems exist.


I don't see anything that says it can me aqua'd in a certain amount of time.. Why does it say not to use where moisture problem exist? Does that mean not to use in a shower?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

bluebird5 said:


> I'm looking at these specs. http://www.mapei.com/public/CA/products/MapecemPremix_TDS_EA.pdf
> 
> And it says...
> 
> ...



That's why I contacted Mapei for recommendations on using AquaDefense. Because liquid doesn't cure properly over moisture, I'd wait the 14 hours.

Moisture problem is much different than moisture. Hydrostatic pressure is a form of a moisture problem. A shower pan does not fit into that category.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Angus, when you use PermaBase and Aqua Defense on walls do you block where seams meet? Also, before liquid, do you mesh and skim with thinset or goop the joints with that product??


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I do not block. Permabase has no noticeable flex at the joints with 16"OC.

I use mesh tape over the seams and the liquid over. Tried FibaFuse on my last job. Worked real nice!


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Don't forget, liquid will span an 1/8" gap. Anything larger needs fabric. I just use the fabric as it gets better coverage on the first coat.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Any other board with noticeable deflection, I'd mesh tape/thinset the joints first.


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