# Apple or Microsoft



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Ok, so I'm basically computer illiterate. Basic abilities only. I'm using Windows xp and love it. I hear it will soon be obsolete and I will need to go to a new system.

So the job I'm at the HO just got a new Apple. The computer is in the monitor. Awesome. He tells me it's way better than Microsoft. True?

Just looking for basic info and opinions, not an indepth debate as I won't know what you're talking about anyway.

Wondering how hard the learning curve would be if I go Apple.

Thanks.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

I have the same system....XP windows
A couple of my friends have Apple
I'm always calling them to help me out with a crash or a bug.
The biggest thing they love is that Apple is NOT affected by viruses like microsoft is.
One guy runs microsoft programs off an Apple.

Good luck in your search, Kato.......keep us (me) posted :laughing:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

That's what this HO says, no viruses. His system would be lots for me. It was about $2,000. which is not bad at all.


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## Clemens (Apr 18, 2009)

The new window 7 is a pretty good operating system. With a good anti-virus program you should be in a good shape.
The cost of these computers are a lot lower than the apple. The one you have seen is the Imac and come in a 21 and 27 screen. If you do a lot of graphics, games and videos I would consider the Imac. It will be your best friend for a long time. The MacPro is way to powerful for most of us here on the forum but you can start out very basic and upgrade from there.
Hope this will help.
Clemens


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

That's it, the Imac. Anyone got one?

It's not a question of cost, more a question of is there any reason I wouldn't go with the Imac?


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Other than it's way over priced and you have absolutely no need for it, Apple is fine.:laughing:


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

Got an IMac and IBook (Apple laptop) as well as an HP desktop pc. My partner uses the IMac so don't get my hands on it much but it is very nice to use and looks stylish if you care. I love the wireless keyboard and mouse. It is way more intuitive than the pc and rarely crashed compared to the pc (on Windows 7). 
I manage my website and email on the IBook ... All my book keeping and design software and photo editing is on the pc simply cos I had the pc software before I got my first Apple and all that software is over $2000. 

So if I was starting over I would probably go 100% Apple. Less downtime, less space, better graphics, easy to convert files to a pc format for other people if necessary ... Yes more money to buy but better built and I feel value for money. 

Not sure if this helps or makes sense to you ;-)

Being from a manufacturing engineering background I can appreciate the engineering that goes in to Apple products.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Viruses affect the Mac just as much as they affect a PC. It is just that no one writes viruses for a Mac because there are so few of them compared to PCs.

If you have a PC and you take care of what you put in it and have a good system to protect yourself from any nasties then you needen't worry about much. 

My kids computer has problems. They download stuff and install it without looking where it came from or looking to see if there are any complaints about it. They had a devistating virus that took the computer out. It took a while for me to get it back. But I did and everything is just about where it was.

My computer on the other hand is handled only be me. I know what goes into it and I know where it goes. I have a platitude of protection that is both active and passive. My computer rarely crashes and when it does it is only one program that really isn't designed that well. I go for weeks without having to reboot. Usually I have to reboot because my connection between my phone and my computer does something weird and they won't communicate anymore. The computer works fine, just won't talk with the phone.

If you get an emulation program you can run PC stuff on your Mac.


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## RCPainting (Jan 29, 2006)

I'm a Mac fan, I maintain close to 100 macs at my day job and rarely have issues. They are not virus free, but pretty close. They are very intuitive, once you learn how to use the finder and spotlight, everything is very simple.
One complaint with some is the lack of software, but with Dual boot on a mac and the abundance of online software, not much of an issue anymore.

I love the Ilife applications, so easy to integrate media across all apps.

And speaking of apps, you mac users notice the app store available on the latest update!?


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

I used to run Windows Vista on my IBook ... Ironically it was faster than running Windows Vista on my brand new pc, but then again Vista was such a piece of crap. Windows 7 is so much better and actually works most of the time which is a bonus ;-)


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I hear all the time about windows getting viruses...over the last 10-12 years I've had maybe 3 where I traversed to a bad site, picked up something and without easily getting it cleaned opted to reload the entire system (usually upgrading HD's at the same time). never used virus protection programs-last one I tried was so bloated and slowed the system down it got removed after two days. 

that said, the wife loves her 27" IMac although it doesn't get much of a workout! Looking to get a MacBook Pro 15" but w/ 7200rpm HD and 4Gb ram w/ upgraded processor (2.8Ghz I think) the cost is around $2400...without AppleCare. that's some serious coin-compared to a top of the line HP in one of the big box stores that's at least double the cost. 

hard to pull the trigger on something with that much of a cost difference. The one thing that IS holding me back is USB 3.0-other manufacturers already implementing it in their laptops but Apple is holding off for a new system compleletly different but faster in transfer speed. My desire for this is for hooking up an external HD for backup and storage of home movies/picture. I've heard through Macrumors that this may come out around June of this year....don't know. Also looked at the SSD for harddrive-basically uses memory chips instead of a harddrive-sorry if I've got info wrong, but bottom line is that the HD access speed is considerably faster. 

have to get a Intel chipset if you want to use windows programs on it, that's about all I know. Everyone I know swears by them...not at them!


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

FYI a lot of design, web design and publishing companies use Macs largely cos the graphics and photo editing capabilities have always been very strong. 
If you just need a computer for basic stuff like email and web browsing then a basic pc will be way less money.


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

A $398 Walmart laptop has more computing power than 90% of the people here need.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

If you enjoy Kool-Aid and the 37 flavors it comes in, it is advisable to make Apple your 38th flavor!

If not, PC is the ONLY solution!


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Either will work.

I am a cross platform guy with no allegiance or partiality to either platform. I'm typing on a 17" MacBook Pro running Windows 7 right now.

Apple's hardware is generally much better and consistent than any PC hardware you can get. Apple's hardware is much more refined and stable (because they control everything) but you pay a price for the premium design and build quality. Their OS is generally stable and relatively simple from a user standpoint. It's set up so that a noob can't get into too much trouble.

Windows is definitely less expensive from the hardware side, but the generally the cheaper you go with hardware, the cheaper your build quality will be. Windows 7 is good and better than XP. If you can use XP, you'll have no problems with W7.

If all you need to do is Web, Email (most likely via web browser anyway), and basic Office-type stuff, either will work fine. Take your pick. Dare I even say you could buy a bare bones PC setup with no OS (very cheap) and load Ubuntu on it. Cheap, good, and more than powerful enough for a casual user.

Do you buy Festool or Dewalt? Apple is Festool. Dewalt is PC.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Another point of support or contention depending upon how one looks at it... Apple is no more resistant to viruses. 

The difference is that no one takes the time to write viruses for 8% of the Worlds computers. They focus on the 92% PC in order to do the most damage.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I won't try to re-state the good advice already mentioned, but one thing to be aware of is that there is much, much more software available for the PC than the Apple. While it's not all the cream of the crop, you have much better odds of finding an application for any given task that best fits your way of working simply because of the number and diversity of offerings.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Hey John,

I've been using macs since 1984, so I'm a little biased, but I have never met someone who has moved to a Mac and said, "I hate this, I'm going back to a PC". 

If you're computer illiterate it really is the way to go. Mac's are analogous to automatic transmissions. Turn the key and put it in drive.

The Imac you saw is way more computer than you need. At the cheapest end, you could get yourself a 2 or 3 year old MacBook (laptop) with a 13" screen for around $600-700 (http://www.simmplymacs.com/ for example). That's what I currently have and it's enough to do everything I need it to. I have had $3000 Macs and $500 Macs. They will all run the same software, but more $$ gets you more speed and bigger screens, as well as few other bells and whistles. 

A Macbook will also have a built in wireless internet antennae (Airport), so you can sit on you deck and surf away, while a Imac will hold you to a desk.

If you want to go new, I think the bottom line MacBook is running about a $1000 right now.

One thing when you buy used is that you may get some software thrown as well. Not really legal, but....


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

katoman said:


> So the job I'm at the HO just got a new Apple. The computer is in the monitor. Awesome. He tells me it's way better than Microsoft. True?


And if it comes down to monitors, you can get a kick-ass monitor for a (microsoft) PC too. If you want to go high-end, compared to an Apple monitor (which is kick-arse), plan on spending $5-600 probably.

The stand alone apple monitors are definitely kick-arse...just beautiful. You can always buy one for your PC is so inclined.


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## avguy (Feb 8, 2010)

I love Macs, I have a 15" MacBook Pro laptop and a hot rodded eMac as my office computer.
Now that you can run Windows on a Mac I see no reason for me to ever buy a PC again.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Wth do you know? Binghamton? :blink:





























Grew up in Horseheads/Elmira :laughing:


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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

Mac Pros:
1) Stability: They run a pretty specific set of hardware so you have less issues getting things to work. PC has a huge array of hardware available which gives more room for error. (contrary to what some may think, the hardware in a Mac is not any better than the PC computers. It's the exact same hardware in most cases, just a very limited selection of it)
2) Security: Mac is also built off a Unix core, which is indeed a more secure kernel than the Windows kernel. There are less virus's that infect it. You can still pass a virus to friend on a Windows PC because you don't have a virus scanner running to catch it. 
3) Unique Software: There are several good applications that are Mac specific. They have traditionally excelled at graphics and video work in particular. That doesn't necessary mean there aren't PCs just as good if not better though.

Mac Cons:
1) Price: They are very expensive when you look at the hardware you are getting. I could build a Hackintosh (which is a PC built from regular parts that will run the Mac OS) for about half the price and have a more powerful computer than anything Apple makes.
2) Software: Selection is very limited compared to Windows, plus you have to pay for most of it. There are a lot of good free applications available for Windows.
3) Video editing: While Mac use to be the king for this, things have changed. The last time I checked, Mac do not offer NVIDIA graphics options. NVIDIA has CUDA on many of their cards now, which greatly accelerated some video applications that make use of it. Take Adobe Premier CS5 for example. Using CUDA acceleration, it can crank through video renders roughly 10 times more smoothly than it could on a non-NVIDIA card. Whether the video aspects matters to you or not depends on the software you intend to use.

There are other considerations to look at, but those are the major ones to me.
For home use, I'd really recommend a Windows Machine. Less money and plenty of power for the average user. Just take the time to set up decent security (which can also be done for free) and learn to protect yourself. If you've already used XP, then Windows 7 will be fairly easy to pick up. Mac does things differently and you may be a little confused trying to do simple things that you've already learned in Windows.

For reference, here is a link to my blog with a security guide I put together a while back for Windows. All free software that will help keep you safe on the internet today.
http://gideond.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/security-for-your-windows-computer/


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

gideond:

MAC commands and navigation seems soooooo illogical to me. It seems to appeal to the emotional side of thinking.

It eeerks me to the point of disdain!


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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

I haven't used a Mac extensively to really get into the way it works. I'm about to take the plunge though. I ordered the parts yesterday to construct my first Hackintosh. For about $500 I've got a pretty decent little i3 system built that should run Snow Leopard just fine. I will note that during my research on this, I found a lot of people that think Snow Leopard is a horrible upgrade over previous OSX installs.


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## brandonriffel (May 22, 2010)

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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

For me a mac just seams easier to run. You don't need to learn nerd, to run it.


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## brandonriffel (May 22, 2010)

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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

I got my Hackintosh up and running last night. I haven't played with it too much yet, but my initial impressions with Snow Leopard haven't changed much. I'm not real fond of it. I have to agree that things seem counter-intuitive. I've used Windows extensively for the past decade. I started using Ubuntu Linux about a year ago and picked it up with very little problem. OSX seems like it's going to give me a coronary. I think my problem with it is that it's just too simplified. I'm use to being allowed quite a bit of flexibility with Windows or Linux in how I do things and what I use to do them. OSX seems to want to limit what and how you do things to the point that you can't screw it up. I can understand the thinking but I don't really appreciate the limitations of it.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have quite a few reason why I choose Microsoft over Apple but I can't be arsed to go through them all again. Just remember that you need to base your experience on like for like products. Too many times do I hear people complain about windows being unstable and slow and then say how stable their new apple system is. What they forgot to tell you is they spent 3x as much on the apple system. Now if they had done the same thing and bought a high end windows based laptop or pc they also would have had good experience with windows. When you pay $300 for a laptop do you really expect it to perform like a $1000 laptop. My last laptop cost me around $2500+ and was trouble free running vista when it first come out. I sold it not long ago and its now running windows 7 just as well as it run vista. Try doing that with a $300 walmart laptop.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

gideond said:


> I got my Hackintosh up and running last night. I haven't played with it too much yet, but my initial impressions with Snow Leopard haven't changed much. I'm not real fond of it. I have to agree that things seem counter-intuitive. I've used Windows extensively for the past decade. I started using Ubuntu Linux about a year ago and picked it up with very little problem. OSX seems like it's going to give me a coronary. I think my problem with it is that it's just too simplified. I'm use to being allowed quite a bit of flexibility with Windows or Linux in how I do things and what I use to do them. OSX seems to want to limit what and how you do things to the point that you can't screw it up. I can understand the thinking but I don't really appreciate the limitations of it.


This is apple through and through. They want to turn everyone into mindless idiots who can't think for them self. They are more form over function and they don't deny this. I wouldn't even own my iPad if I was not able to jailbreak it to make it perform like I need it to. I understand they want to keep the system secure but they have gone way over board to the point they are now controlling what you can and can't download onto the product. I wanted to be able to dim my screen on my iPad more than they allow but they banned this app from app store. I wanted to connect my ipad to my cell phone with Bluetooth but apple also banned this app from app store! I also wanted to change the way the spring board functions and looks but again apple banned these apps from the app store and the only way you can get these functions and hundreds more is to jailbreak the system. These apps in now way compromise the system stability but they want to control you by making you do it their way. What ever happened to me deciding on what software I can and can't put on the system I own and paid for?:blink:


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

My Mother...

10 years ago 70+ years old...

First computer... PC.

Can not understand it... Too complicated.

Buys an Apple... This is retarded and thinks stupidly...

Buys ANOTHER PC...

Has had it for 5 years now and can communicate with the rest of the World... Unhindered and WITHOUT having to purchase anything at the crApple Store.

Win!


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## KEPC (Jan 13, 2010)

I bought my iMac in 08 and have not looked back. I can't stand PC.

anytime I had a question as to how to use a program/software, someone at the apple store would help me. 

I use an iMac, iPhone, and iPad. I love it. I sync everything on mobileme. I love the iDisk app.


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

I used PCs for about 20 years and bought a Mac about 18 months ago. I recently bought a Sony Vaio laptop. I use them both, but I use the Mac much more. 

I'm not a PC geek but was lucky enough over the 20 years to have a good friend that is a PC geek to keep them running for me. I always purchased the PC he recommended and added the amount of ram he recommended. PCs were always a maintenance nightmare for me. 

Like many others I never upgraded from XP, so Microsoft didn't do much for me for several years. Even now the laptop is more frustrating to use than the Mac.

An amusing point IMO...my Mac can open a Word or Excel document. I can make changes to it and save it as a MS document OR an Apple document. I can't do the reverse with my PC. I get a message to search for software on the internet.


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

I had a very frustrating time the other day trying to set up a homegroup on my pc so that I could push files to my Mac (also running Windows 7 via VMware). I gave up and within about 3 mins I had it set up to pull files on to the Mac instead ... So easy in comparison. I too love how I can work on my Mac yet save something that can be opened on a pc ... Now I more or less just use my pc for QuickBooks and web surfing ... When it starts to get riddled with bugs as any windows system I have ever owned eventually does then I'll probably go 100% Mac.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Apple is COMPLETELY illogical in its ways of working... Kinda like Kool-Aid.


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## brandonriffel (May 22, 2010)

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## gideond (May 17, 2007)

I'm starting to get a little more use to the way mac works. I've having issues getting my video straightened out so I'll probably have to reinstall the whole thing again before I can really get down to business. One thing I really do not like about this OS involves the app store. I wanted to try it out last night, so I found a free game on the app store to download. It's suppose to be free. Why do I need to set up iTunes and put in my credit card info? That's completely unnecessary for a free download. It's like they have the mindset that I absolutely will buy something sooner or later. If I can't get things straightened out and working the way I like, I'll just ditch snow leopard and dual boot Mint and Win7.


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## karunnt (Aug 27, 2008)

gideond said:


> I'm starting to get a little more use to the way mac works. .


 I thought Mac's were intuitive. What is the advantage to a Apple? They are more expensive and you can't run any windows software. I have WinXP and it has never crashed as far as I remember. Would you give up all that performance and pay more money just for a some nice packaging and a slightly slicker interface. (I had a Max G4 about 7 years ago. Ran it for about a week and sold it. Just could not get the hang of it.)


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

with apple you're paying 3-4 times as much for a lot of marketing and a slicker interface. my vista pc basically never crashes and i've had one virus on a windows pc in 15 years (and that was about 12 years ago). apples get viruses, they're just not targetted as much. get the pc and setup a firewall and router. use chrome instead of internet explorer and be smart about what you download and what sites you go to. then take the $1500 you saved and buy a kapex or something. :clap:


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

aptpupil said:


> with apple you're paying 3-4 times as much for a lot of marketing and a slicker interface. my vista pc basically never crashes and i've had one virus on a windows pc in 15 years (and that was about 12 years ago). apples get viruses, they're just not targetted as much. get the pc and setup a firewall and router. use chrome instead of internet explorer and be smart about what you download and what sites you go to. then take the $1500 you saved and buy a kapex or something. :clap:


I paid $1200 for my Mac, so it would be a real trick to save $1500 on it. To be fair we could deduct the annual expense of antivirus software from that price. Congrats on being a satisfied Vista user.


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