# Hot Mud



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Anyone ever use hot mud for patching?
That quick dry stuff

Can you prime over it that day?
Is it OK to work with?
Thickness limits? Etc....

Just curious
I thought it might help with a smaller "bathroom repaint" or somesuch if I didn't have to work for an hour or two, then come back the next day ya know
But I've never used it

Thanks in advance


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

It's what I've used exclusively for years to deal with quick patch work, typically I keep a few bags of 5 minute and a few bags of 20 minute in the van at all times for drywall ding repair. If you use 5 miinute you can typically sand and paint within 30 minues of application. I'll typically use a sponge for really fast blending however so when it's dry it's ready for texture/paint.


----------



## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

Like IHI, I always keep 5 minute and 20 minute on on the truck. I use it all the time to patch sctatches, dents, small holes, etc. One nice thing is that it doesn't shrink when it dries like regular joint compound. If you are in a hurry, use warm water to mix it, it will set up quicker. And if you put a fan on it, a skim coat or thinner patch will dry in a matter of minutes. Thick patches take a while longer, but still much faster that regular stuff. You can even use it for the last couple coats when taping joints.


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Fans are cruitial if you want to be in and out, awhile back for fun I wanted to see if I could start with a virgin hung bathroom and have it textured ready for paint in a day. I used 20 minutes for first coat/tape embedding, stuck the fan in there while I cleaned up the tools, 2nd layered/topcoated with 20 minutes and stuck the fan in there, sanded/feathered in edges, cleaned up any corner imperfections, cleaned the walls and used 20 minute to spray light orange peel. It worked as I imagined and the bathroom went from bare sheetrock to paint ready in under 3hrs.

Just make sure you have a helper to keep constant pans of hot mud coming for applicator so your in constant motion while he is cleaning pan/knifes and mixing up another batch...you'd be amazed at how much you can finish in a short amount of time when drying time is cut by 75% over bucket/box mud.


----------



## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

I've been using it exclusively for a while now. There are a few problems with it though. You can't make any one skim too thick. I find for some reason, the edges won't sand back smooth if it's applied too thick in one coat. Actually, the edges will sand off, and you'll be stuck with a prominent lump on the wall because the center won't smooth out. You'll think it's smooth until you paint it, then you'll see the huge swell in the wall where your patch was. To combat this problem, I will skim once lightly, let it dry, then try to skim perfectly smooth on a second coat by going around the edges of my patch and pulling it real tight. This way I have very little sanding, and don't end up with the swells.

Please tell me I'm not the only one to experience this....


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Maybe you have the mix a little to dry/thick when applying? I know we thin everything we use down quite a bit for smoother texture, ease of application, and less chance to excessive build up like you've mentioned. Ya always hate to experiment when it comes to mudding since it's a pita to sand with all the mess, but found some short cuts that way. Now when we mud it's 6" knife then right onto the 12" knife and done. If it's smooth texture then we'll feather out upto 24" to smooth the trasnition on a repair so it's not noticable.

But weather you using bucket/box/or powder mix it needs to be thinned down, this is a common step left out by many homeowners when mudding themselves, they dip straight out of the bucket and make more work for themselves. I truely hate mudding, but when I'm forced into it I love it since I play the angle of testing myself of how quick and how perfect can I make it with a knife only and try to cut out all sanding if possible:clap:


----------



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

I've only ever used mud from a tub

Can you use hot mud for skimcoating a textured surface?

Do you mix it as needed in a 5gal bucket or...?


----------



## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Yeah, you can use it for skim coats. I recently did a job that turned a deep texture into smooth walls in two coats. Since I work alone...I work one pan at a time. Having a helper to clean out and mix more would save TONS of time.


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

The only time I mix a batch is if I'm using 90 or 210 minute mud, otherwise it's impossible to use a bucket of it in the standard drying time your given since it dries chemically. This is another reason I purchased bucket liners to slip inside of buckets, cuz once this stuff gets hard it's like concrete.

If your going to mix batches you'd best have another guy on hand for mixing/cleaning as you go while you apply otherwise you'll get yourself into a bad spot with this concrete hard stuff dried on the bucket, pan, and tools. Since I work alone quite often I mix it per pan in the pan with a putty knife, once you get the hang of it it takes longer to clean out the pan than it does to mix up a batch, you just cant get too carried away mixing a large batch in a pan since it will get dry clumps from not being able to mix it properly due to volume in the pan. I'll usually mix it more wet to get cream going and then add from there to get consistency I'm after.

It can be used in application bucket mud is used and also offers more options since extreme shrinkage is not a problem...works great for filling large voids or areas prone to cracking like the little gaps between tub surrounds and sheetrock or corners.


----------



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

So I mix it up as needed right in my mud pan
Huh...this has been very educational for me

I have a small job that I just primed some ripped drywall in prep for mud patching
I won't need more than a pan of mud for this
Maybe it would be a good test
...it also would save me from waiting overnight -and going back again- before applying paint

Thanks for all this info
This is great


----------



## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Yeah, it will save time, but make sure to avoid one critical mistake. Like IHI said, it hardens through a chemical process, but that doesn't mean dry. The moisture still has to escape. Put a fan on it even though it's hard, you'll be able to tell it's still moist and it doesn't sand the greatest when it's moist. I've primed and painted it in a pinch before, but it's not something I do as a regular practice or on anything extremely critical...meaning, not on my customer's home!


----------



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Gotcha
Thanks for the info
If I can find some on my way in tomorrow I'll try it

I'm assuming the hardware store or BM or SWP should have it
I'll check it out

Thanks!


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

slickshift said:


> So I mix it up as needed right in my mud pan
> Huh...this has been very educational for me
> 
> I have a small job that I just primed some ripped drywall in prep for mud patching
> ...


I would start with either 45 or 20 minute if this is your first time, even 20 minute will harden in your pan pretty quick, once it goes off, it goes off quick. Once it starts to grab when you run your knife over it to smooth it, it is just about done and you will need to clean out your pan and mix another batch. One thing to remember, I don't know if it was pointed out here already but don't use any water you are using to clean the tools or wipe the mud down with to mix up your mud with, because it will harden up about 2-3 times as fast becuase of the chemicals in the water.


----------



## LI Rich (Aug 19, 2004)

Wow! I was just coming here to post a similar question--I've been messing around with 5, 20, and mixing plaster of paris into my mud to avoid the all too often standing around waiting game. This is great advice and a great topic.


----------



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Well, I didn't need another coat of mud, I was able to sand spot prime, and paint, so I didn't try it
I suppose that's for the better, as it sounds like it sets up rather quickly, and I'll need to be very aware of how it acts in a customer's home

There must be some dings in the garage I can practice on

:biggrin:


----------



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Richie-C said:


> I've been messing around with 5, 20, and mixing plaster of paris into my mud to avoid the all too often standing around waiting game. This is great advice and a great topic.


Well, that's why I posted it in painting
I heard some drywallers talking about it
I was thinking of the small repair jobs on repaints
Once you put that joint compound on there...now you gotta wait till tommorrow

I'm really not familier with the stuff at all and really appreciate the input here


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I think once you get comfortable with it you won't ever go back to drying compound again. Setting compounds allow me to tear out old crappy bathtub surrounds, install a nice new direct to stud replacement, and repair the drywall all in the same day. Couldn't function without the stuff.


----------



## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Hey slick and others....another thing to think of is using this stuff over a drying compound. The setting compound dries harder, and the drying compound will sand out from under it causing un-even areas too. I've fiddled with this stuff enough to know you really have to watch it. 

I about slapped myself when I realized this problem in a house once. The walls had been patched some, but still needed more work. Here I come with 20 minute mud over some of the other spots...ugh what a mess. I ended up skimming over the whole area lightly because the other stuff is so much softer. 

If you do this, or have done it....you will know right away what I'm talking about.


----------



## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

How do you all mix your setting compounds to be creamy smooth?
I can't stand trying to float and having chunks and boogers dragging through it. 
Never can seem to get it mixed completely.
Any tips?


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

ProWallGuy said:


> How do you all mix your setting compounds to be creamy smooth?
> I can't stand trying to float and having chunks and boogers dragging through it.
> Never can seem to get it mixed completely.
> Any tips?


I'm trying to think of a consistency to relate too. I wanna say mayonase but sometimes that can still be thick, so I guess a touch runnier than that? It's just thick enough to hold itself up on a wall when spread out, but thin enough it takes very little pressure to float it out. 

I've found bagged mud is VERY humidty sensative. If you have an open bag in the truck-especially during the summer, hell even a closed bag that's prones to moisture you will get alot of chunks no matter what. In the summer I try to leave the bags at home unless I'm going on a job that requires a small patch or could possibly lead to a small patch (like changing a door/window) but when I'm in deck/garage mode the stuff stays to home for this simple reason. Even when I mix exposed bags with my mixer in a bucket liek traditional mud, if the powder has any misoture content what so ever even long sessions of pwr mixing will not work out the clumps. so it'll be back to the truck for a ffresh bag, or down to the store for a new bag.

Even when I have perfect mud in my pan, somehow I get dust boogers from nowhere that build up and leave streaks in my otherwise perfectly smooth mud,  I hate that!! 

If the bag is known good and I'm mixing by the pan full, I only start with enough dry mix to cover my pan about 3/4" deep then start mixing from there and adding powder/water until I get teh quantity and quality I want. I found a long time ago if you start with too much podwer in you pan, there is simply no way to work out the chunks/pieces you get when you first start adding water, by starting out with a small batch you can literally press them out against the side of the pan as you go.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Unless I am doing a really small patch I avoid hand mixing in the pan. I prefer the 5 gallon bucket and a mixing paddle on a drill. For some reason the 45 minute setting compounds always seem to mix up better than the 20 min version. Anybody else notice this?

Getting it smooth in the pan usually involves adding a little extra water and just working it with a 5 or 8 inch knife. It also seems to get a little smoother if you let it slake, but that could be my imaginaton. I use mostly 45 min and 20 min, but mostly the 45 since with a fan going the 45 drys really quickly and like I said it seems easier to work with.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

IHI said:


> Even when I have perfect mud in my pan, somehow I get dust boogers from nowhere that build up and leave streaks in my otherwise perfectly smooth mud,  I hate that!!


LOL, know what you mean, I've gotten in the habit of always wiping the blades clean on the outside edge of the pan before dipping in for more compound. I usally mix in a 5 gallon bucket and transfer some to a pan, I also keep another 5 gallon bucket of water and a sponge going to keep the tools clean as I'm going. There is definitly a learning curve to using setting compounds!


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> LOL, know what you mean, I've gotten in the habit of always wiping the blades clean on the outside edge of the pan before dipping in for more compound. I usally mix in a 5 gallon bucket and transfer some to a pan, I also keep another 5 gallon bucket of water and a sponge going to keep the tools clean as I'm going. There is definitly a learning curve to using setting compounds!


Maaan, if I tried wiping off on the outside of my pan do you have any idea how covered in mud I would be???:laughing: :laughing: Hard enough to not look like I jumped into a pool full of plaster of paris without adding to the cause LOL!!

It takes a different approach than bucket/box mud but I like to think I'm pretty effeicent with it at this point and it would be hard to ever go back. I did use some bucket mud homie has on hand awhile ago, blood pressure and heart rate were ALOT lower since I had no time frame to work under LOL!! Was a nice change, but next day guess what??? went to cut in other side of the corners and the centers were still wet, so my knife carved out nice fuzzy strips all over it and that was with heat turned up all night and fan blowing too....will never use bucket mud on corners ever ever again, cuz that made me really mad!!:furious: :laughing:


----------



## cutnroller (Jan 20, 2006)

I have gained a new respect for anyone thats a master at finishing drywall. I'm working on a studio in my basement and am currently mudding the thing. Holy crap! 4 coats and 7.5 gals later im still not done. The room is heavily boxed to hide pipes/wiring etc so many corners. I've run into just about every prob i guess from tape not sitting down in places to built up parts not drying properly to little chunks coming off and scraping through the new coats.

Im seriously ready to fling the whole works into the neighbors yard! I couldn't imagine using a quicker drying mud. Huge respect to all the peeps doing that for a living!

By the way, does quicker drying mud mean more difficult to sand when the time comes?


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Yes, hot mud is alot harder so sanding is alot harder too as it does'nt just fly off light lightweight mud does.

It's taken me a lot of years to become proficent at mudding, over the years I've gone through what your going through now, apply 5 gallons and sand off 4.75 of it:laughing: It's definately a learned art and the sooner you pick up on it the better. I had a buddy in the drywall biz do some favor swapping with me and while he was working on my old house I was right there learning how they were so quick, I learned alot and it showed immediately on my next remodel as the whole thing was about 10x's faster.


----------



## cutnroller (Jan 20, 2006)

A learned art is right! I just might do like you did and ask someone if I can come hang out for a few hours and help/learn. I can pick most things up pretty quickly but this task has really put me in my place. My experience so far has been fairly limited just patching and smoothing etc and never a whole room from scratch. 

Deep respect for all who do this regularly! :notworthy


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

cutnroller said:


> Deep respect for all who do this regularly! :notworthy


But them boys have the proper tools to make the job a whooole lot easier/faster and I can tell you knifes are'nt uses as often as you'd think, more time with the banjo, flat box, and bazooka than anything else. Our subs typically blast out 2 average 1200 sqft ranches a day then come back the next to texture and so goes the cycle, mud one texture the next, etc...


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

IHI said:


> Yes, hot mud is alot harder so sanding is alot harder too as it does'nt just fly off light lightweight mud does.


My personal experiences have been just the opposite. I use easy sand setting compounds and find the sanding much easier then with drying compounds.


----------



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Wow, must be the mix in your area is softer I'll take super light weight and light weight bucket or box mud and sand that any day over the hot mud I use. The hot mud is like trying to sand with no screen/paper on your sander LOL!! Last bathroom i did the hot mud everywhere and final featheredge with bucket mud and that stuff required no pressure at all, I damn near sanded through the board itself since I'm soo used to sanding on hot mud


----------



## CarlW (Feb 2, 2006)

How can sanding hot mud be easier than boxed mud? I'm a boxed mud guy and the main reason is because the stuff is so easy to sand. I usually end up sanding with the oldest and most worn out sanding block I have on hand. You can't really even sand Durabond or Easysand with a sanding block and expect to get anywhere....you need to use sandpaper really. I will patch big holes with Easysand 20 as a first coat and then second coat it with the Plus 3.


----------



## cutnroller (Jan 20, 2006)

IHI said:


> But them boys have the proper tools to make the job a whooole lot easier/faster and I can tell you knifes are'nt uses as often as you'd think, more time with the banjo, flat box, and bazooka than anything else. Our subs typically blast out 2 average 1200 sqft ranches a day then come back the next to texture and so goes the cycle, mud one texture the next, etc...


ya i guess im doing it the novice way. box mud, 3 blades (i think 5", 9" and 12") got a corner blade too but it seems to be useless, pole sander and sponge and a few beers to keep me from killing someone :furious: 

i don't like it when im this bad at something. i have to do this way more often to get good at it.

sorry for getting this post a little off topic. just needed to vent.


----------



## jett_painting (Oct 27, 2005)

One way to cut down on mixing clumps is to add water to your pan/bucket first as it tends to "wet" the powder a little more evenly as you pour it in. (As opposed to pouring the water in on top of your mud, it tends to sit on top and be a pita to mix) Thats my method anyway, seems to help somewhat. Just a note from the drywall side of things, we run automatic tools and discovered that we can tape and bed in one day usually. The only hold up to skim coating was the heavily bedded butt joints. After a couple houses, we decided to bed the butts with 120, and found that the faster drying time allowed us to skim EVERYTHING the first day.....wow! Granted these houses are on the smaller side (around 1500 sqft), but in two days from tape to texture? The little extra expense of a couple bags of hot mud is MORE than worth it to me. Love the stuff, wouldn't be caught dead without it. Oh, and whoever it was that said it sands harder than drying compound was absolutely right.....especially compared to the lightweight stuff we run in our automatic tools, talk about opposite ends of the spectrum! We usually don't have much trouble with this with our technique since the hot mud is on the bottom, since we skimcoat with lightweight. In fact, if all goes well, we're really only sanding the easier sanding stuff! Sounds almost like cheating, hmmmmm, lol. anyway my two cents for the day......greetings from the south to all, btw.


----------



## jett_painting (Oct 27, 2005)

Hey Mike, i tend to agree with IHI on the sanding issue.....personally i dont know where the *@#$ they came up with the name EasySand, we find it to be anything but, lol.


----------

