# Contracts and clients



## awh (Feb 23, 2013)

Once you win a bid do you get your client to sign a contract where they can`t subcontract your teamÉ

I know you can`t prevent someone from earning a living. 

I`m in Ontario, Canada


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

awh said:


> Once you win a bid do you get your client to sign a contract where they can`t subcontract your teamÉ
> 
> I know you can`t prevent someone from earning a living.
> 
> I`m in Ontario, Canada


You sub shouldn't take any side work from your client to begin with. It is your customer and it's your job.

If your sub takes work behind your back or trying to promote himself to others using your customer, you get rid of this guy right off the bat.


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## awh (Feb 23, 2013)

I`m just wondering how people protect themselvesÉ


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Its only come up twice, and my sub told me both times. Work with good guys and it wont be a problem.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Jaws said:


> Its only come up twice, and my sub told me both times. Work with good guys and it wont be a problem.


I wrote about this in the other subcontractor thread that went sideways and was closed.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

What kind of sub? A lot of times after I finish a project, the client will call about air conditioning, electrical or plumbing needs. I usually go take a look if its electrical to see if it will require patching, but I refer the MEPs to my clients all the time. I hope they get work off of my client list after I complete a project.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

Depending on the job, I sometimes have my sub's work for me or directly for the homeowner. Non the less my sub's know best and they always ask me "am I taking your next contract" when a homeowner ask's them for other things. 

I do have problems when the homeowner says they want to use their own electrician or plumber or HVAC guy because I do have the trust to rely on contractors that I don't know. I don't want to be held back by someone else and then have to hear the "when are you going to be done" line. I know my sub's come in, do the job, get out within a timely manner. I don't have to worry about them not showing up until 4pm because they are hung over from the night before.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

Posted to Wrong thread


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

Nail his foot to the job if he wants it that bad.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

greg24k said:


> You sub shouldn't take any side work from your client to begin with. It is your customer and it's your job.
> 
> If your sub takes work behind your back or trying to promote himself to others using your customer, you get rid of this guy right off the bat.


Sound advice!


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

killerdecks said:


> Nail his foot to the job if he wants it that bad.


I did that once. The guy wasn't too happy and wanted to call the police.


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## iggy (Mar 3, 2013)

greg24k said:


> You sub shouldn't take any side work from your client to begin with. It is your customer and it's your job.
> 
> If your sub takes work behind your back or trying to promote himself to others using your customer, you get rid of this guy right off the bat.


nobody owns the customer.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

iggy said:


> nobody owns the customer.


Many contractors seem to think that they own the customer.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

iggy said:


> nobody owns the customer.


No you don't own..but your ad dollars or reputation got you there..for a sub to try to take work on that job is wrong..its a professional courtesy...I've been asked and i always tell them to talk to whom i am under on that job..

If GC gives the go the fine..


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

iggy said:


> nobody owns the customer.


It's not about owning a customer, it's about respect, principles and ethics... not to mention this is your job and he is there because of you in the first place.


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## iggy (Mar 3, 2013)

greg24k said:


> It's not about owning a customer, it's about respect, principles and ethics... not to mention this is your job and he is there because of you in the first place.


I dont see why I should need to go through a GC if months later the client wants a trade specific job .


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

awh said:


> Once you win a bid do you get your client to sign a contract where they can`t subcontract your teamÉ
> 
> I know you can`t prevent someone from earning a living.
> 
> I`m in Ontario, Canada


Can't with the customer, can with a sub- it's called a non-compete clause in their contract. At a minimum for a time span of the life of your contract with that customer. Legality in the great white north, you need to check out.

I had a sub, contract with an owner to put 'additional' blocking in once. Guess who had to re-do all the blocking... Strickly FORBIDDEN, to go behind my back and on my jobs... after we are gone don't care what the help or subs do in their spare time.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

cabinetsnj said:


> I did that once. The guy wasn't too happy and wanted to call the police.


and I suppose he wanted to use his cell phone while still on the job.:laughing:


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

I won't warranty work that I wasn't paid to perform or to supervise. That generally rules out owner-hired subs.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

iggy said:


> I dont see why I should need to go through a GC if months later the client wants a trade specific job .


Because you never would have met the client in the 1st place if the guy ur subbing 4 didn't get the job. You have no right whatsoever to leave your contact info with anybody unless your trying to steal work. Which you are.

I see a podiatry problem in your near future.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

B.Scott said:


> Matt,
> 
> You know way more about the situation than any of us here. Don't pay this jack off GC five hundred dollars of your hard earned money because some CT folks say you should.
> 
> ...


I think the O.P. was wrong way back at the beginning to take the referral without going back through the general, but I don't pay or accept kickbacks, either. He definitely needs to find out what the general says his (the general's) rules are, and make a decision about whether or not he wants to continue to work for the general, under those rules.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

B.Scott said:


> Matt,
> 
> You know way more about the situation than any of us here. Don't pay this jack off GC five hundred dollars of your hard earned money because some CT folks say you should.
> 
> ...


It's a good thing there was a good theif and a bad theif at THE CROSS ON CALVARY.

YOU rank as lower than the bad theif, much much lower. Than you encourage nhim to do more.

where are your ethics.

MATT if you go offer your GC the $500.00 you will have a friend for life. He will respect and honor you. Being low down and hiding will just always leave that hollowness in you.


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## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

CarpenterSFO said:


> I think the O.P. was wrong way back at the beginning to take the referral without going back through the general, but I don't pay or accept kickbacks, either. He definitely needs to find out what the general says his (the general's) rules are, and make a decision about whether or not he wants to continue to work for the general, under those rules.


The impression I get is that the GC is all about money at any cost. He doesn't care about his subs! He buys solely on cost, so he doesn't care about his customers either! Matt will work for him at a reduced (beat up) rate as fill in work. The roof job Matt did is NOT for one of the GCs customers.


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## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

killerdecks said:


> It's a good thing there was a good theif and a bad theif at THE CROSS ON CALVARY.
> 
> YOU rank as lower than the bad theif, much much lower. Than you encourage nhim to do more.
> 
> ...


See, now you owe me an apology. 
Don't worry I won't be holding my breath. 

Matt, is that GC someone you want as a friend for life? He will not respect and honor you! 

Killer, thanks for the laugh. 

Peace
Bob


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

All in my humble opinion:

I wouldnt mark up a stright roof that I am going to sub out, unless its a past client who wants me to be involved. I would refer it to my roofer. Same with MEPs or any other trade. If a client wants an entertainment center built and installed, no other work involved, and Im to busy to build it, I refer the cabinet guy with the clients permission. If the cabinet was a built in and there was framing, drywall, trim or painting or all the above, I will do it. 

My MEP contractors, drhwall contractor and paint contfactor all have lettered vehicles, as I would as well. They all know how I feel, if the truck is on my project and you get a call off your signage, I want a kick back:laughing: kidding If it is a trade I employ, carpentry, welding/fab or paint/drywall I would expect that to get passed to me, and thats fair, imo.

If it is more than one trade (excluding MEPs) I would expect it to pass to me. It has never been an issue. I sub drywall and paint fairly often, and both contractors have gave me a heads up on a straight paint and drywall job. I declined both, but it speaks volumes as to their character. 

In Mattks situation, if I was the GC I would be concerned. Not because I want the roof, but because he is a GC who took a job next door without saying anything. Since he told the GC though, I would think it wasnt a big deal. I would make it clear that anything other than a straight roofing job I would want first shot at. A referal fee ? Give me a break, thats a real team feeling there.

It is sad when GCs get a big head and think they are extra special because they are the Umbrella, and feel that the word SUB means less instead of beneath an umbrella. Usually the same ones who throw tantrums like a 9 year old when chit is falling apart.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

jaws said:


> all in my humble opinion:
> 
> I wouldnt mark up a stright roof that i am going to sub out, unless its a past client who wants me to be involved. I would refer it to my roofer. Same with meps or any other trade. If a client wants an entertainment center built and installed, no other work involved, and im to busy to build it, i refer the cabinet guy with the clients permission. If the cabinet was a built in and there was framing, drywall, trim or painting or all the above, i will do it.
> 
> ...


*he never would have been on the job to get the contact without the gc.'s advertising etc. That got him the 1st job.*


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

killerdecks said:


> *he never would have been on the job to get the contact without the gc.'s advertising etc. That got him the 1st job.*


So? 

I guess you would expect a kick back?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> All in my humble opinion:
> 
> I wouldnt mark up a stright roof that I am going to sub out, unless its a past client who wants me to be involved. I would refer it to my roofer. Same with MEPs or any other trade. If a client wants an entertainment center built and installed, no other work involved, and Im to busy to build it, I refer the cabinet guy with the clients permission. If the cabinet was a built in and there was framing, drywall, trim or painting or all the above, I will do it.
> 
> ...


So your building a custom home and a rich young couple drives up admiring the work so far. So the framing sub goes out front and says well I build houses here is my card call me. Anybody would be pissed. 

Its the same thing.

Not saying you John only using your situation as an example to express my thought.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

I guess IMO, I didnt give it a 2nd thought because they don't roof at all. So I never considered I would be stepping over him. I definitely wasnt trying to snake work out of his pocket. The neighbors are very friendly elderly people who smoke outside their home. 3-4 times a day they would come out, have a quick convo, say "looking good fellas" and even a few days bring us water or lemonade. I know they took a liking to us and wanted a price to do her roof as well. Im a roofer and was able to give her an excellent price, it never crossed my mind to involve a guy who they never met. As stated earlier, this GC is heavily into excavation and likes to sub jobs to semi inclusive companies like myself. I do all the managing of my portion and he doesnt deal with any of the issues. That way he can continue to do what makes him money...running machines and equipment. To the lettering, I had.my older truck at the time and it was unlettered. 

Had the neighbor needed a full addition, I know for a fact I would have connected the GC and subbed off him. I really believe we were hired because were friendly, neat guys that dont curse or leave messes. To this day the elderly woman still calls me for advise on random things. Her awning blew off in a hurricane and she bought a Depot replacement and I installed it for free. I also helped her pickout and deliver a portable genny after they lost power a 2nd time. Just really good, quality people that want to be treated well, remind me of my grandparents.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> So?
> 
> I guess you would expect a kick back?


I would expect to be referred the lead. I'd almost always just pass it along anyways but I prefer to have the opportunity to do so. Now when that lady needs a screen porch she is going to call Matt instead of the gc. It is essentially the theft of a referral.


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

See now Im wasting everyones time. Subs, GC subs or GCs, were all screwing with our phones instead of making money!


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

Theft of the referral with a so what attitude, pure arrogance. 

Flippant comments about he's just in it for the money, well hell yea. It buys the food we eat, cars we drive, and advertising to get more work so subs can steal the gravy off the job that the advertising paid for.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm waiting on an inspector. I called a meeting with the head of the county building department to discuss the updated fire stopping codes and requirements since they have become much more stringent since the begining of this year. I am considering writing an article about it help help other local contractors.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

killerdecks said:


> Theft of the referral with a so what attitude, pure arrogance.
> 
> Flippant comments about he's just in it for the money, well hell yea. It buys the food we eat, cars we drive, and advertising to get more work so subs can steal the gravy off the job that the advertising paid for.


Pretty sure that was at me so Ill just add that coming from you I appreciate it. I consider that the highest compliment YOU have ever given me..

Gravey stealin bastids...


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Pretty sure that was at me so Ill just add that coming from you I appreciate it. I consider that the highest compliment YOU have ever given me..
> 
> Gravey stealin bastids...


I thought that comment was at me...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> So your building a custom home and a rich young couple drives up admiring the work so far. So the framing sub goes out front and says well I build houses here is my card call me. Anybody would be pissed.
> 
> Its the same thing.
> 
> Not saying you John only using your situation as an example to express my thought.


That is different to me. #1 when I sub carpentry, the carpenter knows damn well all referals from one of my jobs goes to me. I am a carpenter and I employ carpenters. Stealing a lead for a custom would get the sub black balled. 

I do see your point about the lead though. Even if you dont want the roof you make the contact. 

As far as kick backs, I resent designers and realtors who expect one for the lead. I pay them but it pisses me off, and I never send leads to those people. I also will not except a kick back.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

B.Scott said:


> Wow that was real mature!! How old are you??
> 
> From what I read above the GC is obviously the greedy one here. You owe Matt an apology for that.



I'm 44,immature as hell, and will not apologize for anything i said here.

You do NOT solicit work while working an another's job...period.

kickbacks I don't agree with..that feels like extortion..
but i will absolutely refer ANY client to the GC and if says handle it , I will, otherwise I let him contract it., 

I will send gift certificates for dinner, leave a bottle of wine etc.

Ran into a GC one time in a steakhouse.. Kicked it around for a bit then we went our separate ways..behind his back I approached him waitress..
Gave her 150.00 and told her to pick up their tab, give them a bottle of wine and dessert and keep the change..

he never saw it coming..called me right after he left the restaurant to thank me.

that is how you conduct yourself..this guy never will call anyone else


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I would probably feel a bit more the other way if I did a lot of marketing.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> pretty sure that was at me so ill just add that coming from you i appreciate it. I consider that the highest compliment you have ever given me..
> 
> Gravey stealin bastids...


matt k not you


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## MattK (Apr 2, 2009)

Well, I appreciate all the responses, for or against. While I don't normally accept kickbacks, thats what this GC did want so I'll give him the $400 and throw in a case of Bass. If the neighbors call me for future work, I'll kick it to him no matter how large or small the job and let him make the call. Thay way their is no loss of customer or referral stealing going forward. Back to lunch now.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

In the immortal words of Rodney King:

"Why can't we all just get along?" :whistling


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

This is not about kick back or anything else... I don't need a kick back nor I expect a kick back. 

I simply talk about principles and doing the right thing. This is my job, my sign is on the lawn... I do complete residential construction. 

If next door neighbor needs a roof, and my roofer takes that job, he is taking my bread and butter. I don't know how much more simpler this can get. 

If next door neighbor comes to me and tells me I need a roof, and I don't want to get involved, I will pass this onto my sub. If my sub wants to give me a bottle or throw something my way, thats fine, if not, I'm not gonna loose any sleep over it.

Frankly speaking I don't really give a s^*t what anyone does, I have my own principles and I follow certain ethics... my name is well respected so I guess I been doing something right without yanking work from under anybody. :thumbsup:


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Well now we all know the varying viewpoints on this. 

If it happens and your a sub on a site, talk to your general contractor if you haven't already. I think the original poster is doing the right thing. He didn't know his particular general contractors view, and upon learning it is willing to make a peace offering.

Now I know from here on out to ask when I ever become a sub. No need for hate after a job.

Jeez


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> I don't want references for just roofing or just hvac unless its a previous client. .


While I understand entirely what you are saying I'd like to add that some of our best projects started as seemingly menial leads. Its all about first contact and being there with the solution the client needs wether that includes you doing the work In house or reffering the right guy on your team.

I'd also like to place some perspective as to this being a train wreck. Personally I think this has been one of the better conversations regarding this topic here in some time. Its all about different perspectives laying out their side of the talk which has been done well here.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Wtf? No, id black ball his azz for a remodel too.
> 
> I am not going to be mad if my roofer gets a roof because he was doing a roof for me is my point. If the guy had jacked a remodel I would be singing a different tune.
> 
> ...


I was merely refrencing your statement regarding the conversation not implying anything about you. 

Are you still the presbo of the hba even though your primary focus is remodeling now?


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I'd also like to place some perspective as to this being a train wreck. Personally I think this has been one of the better conversations regarding this topic here in some time. Its all about different perspectives laying out their side of the talk which has been done well here.


:thumbsup:

Agreed.

Even though I'm a noob to the site.


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## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

overanalyze said:


> Boy this thread is a wreck. Its a roof. He is a roofing sub owning his own roofing company. His only job is not this gc. He needs to have other jobs. The next door neighbor needed a roof not a room addition. I don't ever expect a kickback from my subs if they are doing trade specific work...we are a gc that does multi phased projects. I don't want references for just roofing or just hvac unless its a previous client. If you want to get the gc something give him a box of tissues to wipe his big cry baby tears.
> 
> Now I do expect my name passed out if a regular sub of mine is asked about a remodel project or a builder and then in return I will give that sub his porion of work for that job.



Thank you!

This is exactly what I was thinking except you have the excellent idea of sending him a big box of tissue. That would be money well spent. 

Bob


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

tenon0774 said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Even though I'm a noob to the site.


Noobs make the forum go round. You stick around long enough you might even get to experience the fulfillment that comes from a nicely worded ban message. Only then will you be able to truly feel like a contributing member..


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Personally I think this has been one of the better conversations regarding this topic here in some time. Its all about different perspectives laying out their side of the talk which has been done well here.


I agree. Great conversation, helped along by the O.P. hanging around even after we all fired up the flamethrowers.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I was once handed the same print by two GC's for a framing price. One whom I had never worked with, and one whom I had done work for almost ten years. This had never happened to me before. I returned the print to the first GC and told him "No thanks"
I don't think there was really anything wrong with my bidding both, but it just didn't feel right to me. I guess you know which camp I sleep in here.


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## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

MattK said:


> Well, I appreciate all the responses, for or against. While I don't normally accept kickbacks, thats what this GC did want so I'll give him the $400 and throw in a case of Bass. If the neighbors call me for future work, I'll kick it to him no matter how large or small the job and let him make the call. Thay way their is no loss of customer or referral stealing going forward. Back to lunch now.


Matt while you're at it send me $400 and some Bass as well. I did just as much work on that roof job as the GC, plus I actually like you more. 
You can send those referrals this way as well. I'll GC you from here!

I've budgeted $25 a square for you. Don't forget the ice and water shield and ridge vent. I'm not paying you for nuttin you know. 

Oh- and you supply the nails. LOL........

Bob


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

B.Scott said:


> Matt while you're at it send me $400 and some Bass as well. I did just as much work on that roof job as the GC
> 
> Bob


Mr. Scott,

So you spent years establishing yourself in that market, spent your time and effort selling the addition job, and offered Matt K the framing on a juicey addition job?

While some of your other statements here were reasonable this one is just absurd. 

A personalities and B personalities will always hold varied opinions on how the other should behave.


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## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I'd also like to place some perspective as to this being a train wreck. Personally I think this has been one of the better conversations regarding this topic here in some time. Its all about different perspectives laying out their side of the talk which has been done well here.


Agreed, plus it's a fun thread. 
Bob


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I was merely refrencing your statement regarding the conversation not implying anything about you.
> 
> Are you still the presbo of the hba even though your primary focus is remodeling now?


My primary focus is not remodeling, its anything in the residential and light commercial realm. Bid several houses last year, just not giving any away and not bidding boxes . Im still a builder, I have built several custom homes, several guest houses, a cottage and added onto many homes, not to mention boat houses and boat docks. 

Yes im still the prez, just took over another 7 countys in January, and am on the block for Area VP of Texas Association of Builders.

Besides, you can be president as a remodeler, although Ive never seen it. Just required to be a builder member (GC)


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## B.Scott (Feb 1, 2013)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Mr. Scott,
> 
> So you spent years establishing yourself in that market, spent your time and effort selling the addition job, and offered Matt K the framing on a juicey addition job?
> 
> ...


According to Matt it's not juicy work. It's fill in between his more lucrative jobs. 

Yes I did just as much work as Matts GC on the roof job. The GC didn't even know about the roof until it was finished and Matt told him about it. 

That's the way I read it.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Driftweed said:


> The client is the gc's. The sub is the sub at that site and nowhere else. If someone drives by and see's the work (roofing), looks down and see's 4 labeled roofing trucks and nothing else, fair game. The current jobsite belongs to the gc, not the rest of the city.
> 
> If that same roofer was gassing up and was approached, is that one also the gc's property? Because he would not have been gassing up if the gc didn't give him work.
> 
> ...


True with the lettered trucks on site. But back to the point, Matt was on a roof job particularly for the GC. When approached it was his responsibility to pass on the GC's number. We work for him. That is how it should have gone down.

That would be like he is in the porta potty and neighbor approaches one of Matt's guys and Matt's guy goes over and tries selling the job for himself. Same difference. 

$400 is getting out pretty light actually. Who knows how much the GC marked up the first job.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Bite the hand that feeds and get no more food.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> While I understand entirely what you are saying I'd like to add that some of our best projects started as seemingly menial leads. Its all about first contact and being there with the solution the client needs wether that includes you doing the work In house or reffering the right guy on your team.
> 
> I'd also like to place some perspective as to this being a train wreck. Personally I think this has been one of the better conversations regarding this topic here in some time. Its all about different perspectives laying out their side of the talk which has been done well here.


I will agree with you Matt that small projects can turn into large ones. It's why I still do little projects. I see and can agree with both sides of this quandary. For me I was viewing the op as a specific situation. There are a ton of varying circumstances in which I would expect a different protocol from a sub of ours.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

There is no difference in value between sub and gc. I have been and continue to do both it is all about principle and fair dealings.

Fair dealings: When I sub, I price my work for the work and care less nor is it my business how much or how little the gc is making. 

*One of the great thing about this site I have found is the termination of topics as dollars are mentioned. True contractors, sub or gs's alike have their own business models and values on their work with no rhyme or reason compared to the next sub or contractor. 

*


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Bite the hand that feeds and get no more food.


...but if all you're getting is rotten left-overs, it might be time to find another trough.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

donerightwyo said:


> There's three, problem is they all share the same truck.:sad:


:laughing::thumbsup:


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

I do whatever is best for my business and makes me money without going off the proverbial moral compass.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

overanalyze said:


> Now how many subs got to comfortable with ya and they knew you didn't shop. Finally after their pricing kept creeping up, you did price shop them and realized you were being bent over.
> 
> This business has to have checks and balances and you have to know when to move on from a sub or a GC.
> 
> I have framed for a GC on a few commercial projects and then bid against him on others. Loyalty will only take you so far in life. Do what you are comfortable with, period.


Then you get the GC who requests you at nearly a moments notice..tells you the job is ready..
Leaves you with tons of **** to move..then asks you to phase the job..afterall it s a couple thousand sf. you will make money..
Wants your speed and quality work and service..

Then job is complete..plumber comes and drags fridge across floor..you as team player go back and try to fix at no charge..get told on next that "the architect has at least on other quote" when he already has job..

His guys tell you how other subs botch job..

Yet he still bids you out after personally telling you he wished he had you perform a job another sub did..


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> Then you get the GC who requests you at nearly a moments notice..tells you the job is ready..
> Leaves you with tons of **** to move..then asks you to phase the job..afterall it s a couple thousand sf. you will make money..
> Wants your speed and quality work and service..
> 
> ...


That sucks....sounds like you have first hand experience there. That doesn't happen in my camp. There are a lot of crappy gc's out there. We have a few in my small town and the local subs won't work for them. A few have stories just like the one you described.


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## awh (Feb 23, 2013)

Ok then who pays for the cost of marketing and sales.


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## awh (Feb 23, 2013)

agree


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## awh (Feb 23, 2013)

Jaws said:


> All in my humble opinion:
> 
> I wouldnt mark up a stright roof that I am going to sub out, unless its a past client who wants me to be involved. I would refer it to my roofer. Same with MEPs or any other trade. If a client wants an entertainment center built and installed, no other work involved, and Im to busy to build it, I refer the cabinet guy with the clients permission. If the cabinet was a built in and there was framing, drywall, trim or painting or all the above, I will do it.
> 
> ...


Its not a big head. If you spend time and money attracting clients you should see a return on your investment. FYI please forward your rolodex. Thank you


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## Gable (Mar 18, 2013)

Five years ago, as a sub, I built a house, sided and roofed it. Built the decks. Later, installed the kitchen, hardwood, trim, etc. The homeowner was there more than the gc, so I got to know him. Nice guy.

Last summer he calls: wants an addition and a garage. The gc moved out of state. So, do I owe the gc something?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Gable said:


> Five years ago, as a sub, I built a house, sided and roofed it. Built the decks. Later, installed the kitchen, hardwood, trim, etc. The homeowner was there more than the gc, so I got to know him. Nice guy.
> 
> Last summer he calls: wants an addition and a garage. The gc moved out of state. So, do I owe the gc something?


Yep, at least a thanks.

I have referred a painter quite a lot over the past two years and because I vouched for him, and I had already built a good relationship, majority of the people hired him.

Guess what, I no longer refer him. Know why? Not because of money but because he never even had the courtesy to say thanks.


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## pinturachica (Aug 11, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> I understand your position, but it's not 100% cut and dried that the general was unreasonable. It sounds to me as if the general overreacted and was greedy. But I expect all subs on my jobs to say, "Hey, I'm working for Bob; here's his number." If I have nothing to contribute (for example it's a pure roofing job, not a g.c. job), I tell them go ahead and call you, you're a great roofer. The chain is broken, referrals from there are all yours. I never take a kickback or referral fee or percentage for a referral. All that being said, roofers in particular get calls directly because of signs, the visibility of the work, etc. Sometimes I go over all this with the H.O. "If people ask you for referrals on any of the subs, have them give me a call. If they just need the sub, I won't get involved in it, but I like to get the feedback about the subs, and it's good for me if the subs know I'm referring them.
> You have a choice about the generals for whom you work, and he has a choice about the subs he uses.


Awesome way to put it!


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

awh said:


> Its not a big head. If you spend time and money attracting clients you should see a return on your investment. FYI please forward your rolodex. Thank you


You stick to your ways and Ill stick to mine. :thumbsup:


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

Jaws said:


> You stick to your ways and Ill stick to mine. :thumbsup:


I will, but if I see you with a nice home, a hot wife, and a nice car, I might decide to try out your ways.


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## thezoo (Sep 13, 2008)

Agree w/ cabinetsnj above. Be like mike! There are some good worth emulating in order to improve and be better. 

Seriously good thread. I've been on several jobsites where subs were prohibited from signs on trucks or had to use the GCs mag sign.

Good to see that there are good equitable relationships to be made out in the market place. So much of contracting is dog eat dog.


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## pibe (Jan 21, 2013)

donerightwyo said:


> I wouldn't say I change, but I will damn sure let them know when I think they're taking advantage. I get another qoute, better luck next time, jack:thumbsup: usually sends the message when they miss a job..
> 
> I am loyal to a sub until they start taking food off my table.


Makes sense.

I havent run into issues like this really so i am enjoying reading this thread.

So out of curiosity, what if your hypothetical were reversed?

What if a sub keeps referring work to the GC and he keeps losing work because of GCs markup? Does the loyalty end there like yours would with him in the other scenario?


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

pibe said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> I havent run into issues like this really so i am enjoying reading this thread.
> 
> ...


Working for me is the gravy train:thumbup::whistling. 


I think the sub should do whatever makes the most financial sense to him. If that means not giving me the lead because I am to high then so be it. Everybody has to look out for number one. :thumbsup:


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