# Ideas on my pricing?



## Desertstuff (3 mo ago)

I recently started a landscaping business during the height of the rainy season here in Arizona because I needed money. Well, more of me and my dog riding around together.i don't have much experience landscaping so I never overreach on what I have learned in the past couple months, so lots of basic services. I have been trying to make 50 bucks an hour on smaller jobs and around 30 bucks an hour as they approach 6 and higher hour jobs. I'm curious what is the going rate. There's alot on YouTube about mowing lawns ,but I'm here in the desert and have just been totally winging it, so that I can at least get some experience in for a reference on what is going on.

At least right now I'm making 1000 bucks a week, and that was great for a month, but I'm getting beat to hell trying and working 14 hours a day working, advertising, and trying to keep up with everything.I have no idea how or what anyone else charges, any ideas?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

It's tough, but no one here can tell you what you need to charge. We have no idea what your expenses are, how much you need over & above that to make a living--let alone putting aside profits for retirement and whatnot. And of course there's the cost of equipment and supplies.

There's really no such thing a a "going rate", unless you want others to set your prices for you. Charge what you need to stay in business. If that turns out to be more than what clients are willing to pay, then the brutal truth is that you probably need to look into some other means of earning a living.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Why should you make significantly more or less depending on the size of the job?

If that’s the way it is, I would pick the type of job that returns the most $ for time invested.

Why work 10 hours @ $30 when you can work 4 hours @ $50?

- if you spend all your time (14 hours/day) on low paying jobs, you are not available when the high paying jobs come available.

- working fewer hours, you can figure out how to get more of the high paying jobs.

- figuring out how to get those jobs, fill your schedule with them.

The principle is true, no matter if the “hourly” wage is 30, 50, 200, or 1000.

Scarcity adds value. If you can do things others can’t or won’t do, you have value. 

Choose profitability over volume, every day of the week.

I think you will find focusing on raising your rates will help you work less and make more money.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Desertstuff said:


> I recently started a landscaping business during the height of the rainy season here in Arizona because I needed money. Well, more of me and my dog riding around together.i don't have much experience landscaping so I never overreach on what I have learned in the past couple months, so lots of basic services. I have been trying to make 50 bucks an hour on smaller jobs and around 30 bucks an hour as they approach 6 and higher hour jobs. I'm curious what is the going rate. There's alot on YouTube about mowing lawns ,but I'm here in the desert and have just been totally winging it, so that I can at least get some experience in for a reference on what is going on.
> 
> At least right now I'm making 1000 bucks a week, and that was great for a month, but I'm getting beat to hell trying and working 14 hours a day working, advertising, and trying to keep up with everything.I have no idea how or what anyone else charges, any ideas?


This is a common discussion here on this site so below is a copy/paste from another thread of one of my replies on pricing...


The first "secret" pricing is not basing your price off of someone else's price...

As an example, assuming a 40-hour work week, you have 2080 hours per year you can work... if one guy thinks making $50K/year remodeling houses is fine, because it's more than he made as an employee, his hourly rate just to make his salary is around $24/hour. For ease of example, this does not include taxes, WC, bene's, retirement, etc... which would ADD to the hourly cost...

2nd guy wants to make $75K/year doing the same thing... He needs to make in excess of $36/hour... assuming they both can work at the same rate of speed and quality, the first guy needs to charge $192 for an 8-hour day, but the 2nd guy needs to charge $282 for an 8-hour day, or 50% more just to make their base pay...

Now one guy might have a shop, and the other guy doesn't... one guy might be legit and be insured and the other guy not... one guy may be paying off a vehicle the other guy not... etc... many variables, but the important ones are what YOUR companies variables are...

So, if the 2nd guy based his pricing off the first guy, he would be at a NET negative EVERY DAY of $96 just on what they wanted to make as their base pay. Add in all the other variables costs in running a company, which is different from company to company, and you can see the folly in basing your pricing off of another company's pricing...

*L -* Labor
*O -* Overhead
*M -* Materials
*P -* Profit

*Labor -* First, you calculate your Labor.... this includes what you want to make GROSS every year for you and anyone you employ, PLUS taxes, Insurance, bene's, retirement, etc....

*Overhead -* Insurances, Shop, cell, advertising, WC, electric, heat, vehicle insurance, any vehicle payments, accountant, equipment maintenance, office supplies, etc... spend the time to make sure you account for it all...

These two figures (Labor and Overhead) are added together and divided by 2080 hours (40-hour week) and this is the MINIMUM you can charge per hour as they are a CONSTANT. So if you expect a job to take a day and a half, you better assume TWO days unless you are somehow able to fit another job in that half day (unlikely)... so you would take the hourly cost from this calculation and multiply it by 16 (two 8-hour days).) If you have a day where you had no business, it NEEDS to be accounted for in your upcoming jobs if you do not have Capital Reserves or an Emergency Fund to absorb it.

*Materials - *these are what your materials will cost for the project. Everything. Then you add a percentage for handling, delivery, etc... I should also mention, we've taken to adding gas to materials because of it's variable nature. We record how many miles it takes to get to a prospects house for the estimate, and calculate our average gas price for the month and build it into materials. Because we add a percentage on top for handling/delivery, it helps cover any variance... Because you will know what they charge, subs can be included in this category...

*Profit - *this is what you pay your company, (NOT your pay left over after a job) which is based on all of the above... so add up Labor, Overhead, Materials and then multiply x whatever profit margin % you have determined you need. This goes towards things like a 3-6 months of Capital Reserves account, Emergency Fund and Equipment Fund... developing and having these will also go a long way in planning for employees and not getting stuck in "rob Peter to pay Paul" cycles, which are hard to get out of...

If you do not have PROFIT built into your pricing, there is only ONE place it can come from.... YOURS and YOUR FAMILIES pocket...

Your challenge is when you add up the numbers for the above (the only variable should be materials and the Profit percentage will take care of itself as it is based on the other three) is you will be surprised at how much it indeed costs you to be in business...

Then you will have to go after the business that can support what you need to make... and then you will come to realize that not everyone is your customer and that your efforts should be focused on finding customers that can support what YOU need to charge to be in business... the good news is, is that once you do, the referral tend to be among the same demographic/income level.... If you drop your pants on a job to "buy it", if you have not accrued any capital reserves or emergency fund, it comes DIRECTLY out of your pocket... sometimes you have to do what you have to do, just make it the exception, not the rule...

There's no secret involved... just getting to know your prices and what YOU need to charge, not what the other guy charges...

Best of luck... 8^)


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## RacinMason (Oct 26, 2017)

This was about 15 years ago....I always thought I didn't charge enough. My work looks better than my competition, so why do I charge the same? I know my competition. One day I decided I'm going to keep raising my prices until someone told me I was too high. I was amazed at much more I started making. Some of my charges doubled. The quality sold itself. 

When meeting a potential client, just be confident, show your projects, and let them know that you're not the cheapest, but if they want an exceptional product, from a guy that knows what's going on, and will do exactly what he's says he will do, I'm your guy.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

RacinMason said:


> This was about 15 years ago....I always thought I didn't charge enough. My work looks better than my competition, so why do I charge the same? I know my competition. One day I decided I'm going to keep raising my prices until someone told me I was too high. I was amazed at much more I started making. Some of my charges doubled. The quality sold itself.
> 
> When meeting a potential client, just be confident, show your projects, and let them know that you're not the cheapest, but if they want an exceptional product, from a guy that knows what's going on, and will do exactly what he's says he will do, I'm your guy.


My thoughts exactly. Not to mention, an hourly rate means nothing without actually knowing how that person/crew works. I have seen cases where someone charges a cheaper hourly rate, does decent work, but is incredibly inefficient. Whereas another contractor charges a bit more, does equal or better work, and works very efficiently. I could care less about what you charge hourly, as without observing your methods/quality, it means nothing.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

Desertstuff:

If 20% of your happy customers aren't complaining about your rates, your rates are too low.


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## Desertstuff (3 mo ago)

This is such an incredible resorce, thank you so much for the replies. Most of it stems from the way I look at the world, which is through the lense of a cheap ass. I mean, I would never pay anybody to do my yard because financially it just doesn't make sense when you can use that money to buy the tools yourself, but I am working hard on changing that. What I've come to find out, that is very very important, that most of the people I do work for wouldn't have paid anybody to do it, but since I pass door hangers out, they feel the convenience of it compells them to call me. I just had a job that took me 12 hours and I made 280 bucks on it. When I was adding things up, I was at 480 and I just never thought anyone would pay that. The guy would have, he said so.

Right now I have almost no expenses, hell I don't even pay for rent, I rent out a room in my house that pays for itself. In fact, I'm set up that all I need is 250 bucks a week to break even and survive. BUT, I have also noticed trees that have been totally chopped to ****, and the demographics of my area for landscapers are people I would say away from talking to them at a bus stop, or are probably illegal Mexicans. My work also looks fantastic and people lose their mind over my dog that does little tricks and is an overall very sweet boy. I figured that once this season is over and I have some logs with what takes me how long and good before and after pictures, as well as a little more reading up on stuff, that I can start charging more. The big thing though that when people ask me how much I make per hour and I say around 50, they lose all interest in talking more. I've been at around 35 bucks an hour average because I have been afraid to lose a job/people's interest.


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## Desertstuff (3 mo ago)

Kowboy said:


> Desertstuff:
> 
> If 20% of your happy customers aren't complaining about your rates, your rates are too low.


Damn, I've done about 40 yards and only two old ladies have complained. One was a 700 dollar job she said she could get someone to do for 120. It was easily a long 2 day project.


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## Desertstuff (3 mo ago)

KAP said:


> This is a common discussion here on this site so below is a copy/paste from another thread of one of my replies on pricing...
> 
> 
> The first "secret" pricing is not basing your price off of someone else's price...
> ...


What exactly does it mean to pay the business? I have been using about 200 bucks a week to purchase better tools. What are some other good ways or re-investing in myself? I'm working on business cards and some logoed t-shirts as well.


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## reggi (Oct 12, 2020)

What you would be willing to pay for something is irrelevant. Close your eyes and imagine you're a busy millionaire with a big yard, a hot wife, bratty worthless kids who won't do anything around the house, and no interest in doing yard work yourself. Imagine that after a long week of battling it out in the court room, or surgery after surgery, you come home Friday evening with your $10k paycheck to a wife who really wants to go to the cottage for the weekend (always a good time!) but insists that the yard gets taken care of first - leaves/debris raked, grass mowed, trees trimmed, etc. What would you pay have someone else come deal with it so you can go decompress at the cottage? With your eyes still closed, imagine what your house might look like, and what town and especially what neighborhood it might be in.

In my case, it's not my neighborhood. I've only worked in the town I live in once, and usually if I'm working at a residence it's at least 35 minutes from my home. The house I'm in right now, I've got two trucks that are older than the building and I'm tearing almost everything out. I couldn't afford to do that but that's irrelevant.

Anyway, figure out where the people with the money be at and go work for them.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Desertstuff said:


> What exactly does it mean to pay the business? I have been using about 200 bucks a week to purchase better tools. What are some other good ways or re-investing in myself? I'm working on business cards and some logoed t-shirts as well.


Paying your business is what's called Profit... Profit is NOT what you pay yourself... what you pay yourself should already be figured into your Labor or Overhead numbers which make up your hourly rate...

Profit is what you use to develop funds that cover the above... 3-6 months of Capital Reserves and Emergency Fun, Equipment Fund, Marketing, etc. IF you already have these in place because you've been diligent about charging a Profit, then you can look at end of year bonuses, etc.

Profit is a percentage that is placed on top of EVERYTHING ELSE (i.e. - Labor, Overhead and Materials)... Profit goes a long way to insulate you on a job when Mr. Murphy tries to insert his foot into the door... without a Profit built in, there's only ONE place it can come from if you can't back-charge a customer for something... YOUR POCKET...


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

You can't ever charge enough.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

You say you know nothing about landscaping, but you started a business doing it.

That’s fine, but you have to understand that you will be starting at the bottom, you will have to earn trust from your customers, you will have to offer a really good price, because you can’t offer vast experience or knowledge, or a history of standing behind your work, etc. 

It will also take you time to develop and realize what kind of client or niche you want to go into.

Unfortunately, without any experience, you really have nothing to trade on except for price.

So keep plugging away at it, and in the future if your work deserves more money, and your clients are willing to pay it, raise your prices.


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## 623Carpenter (Oct 1, 2021)

I can't help with pricing but as a fellow Arizonan I have this opinion which is worth every penny you're paying for it. 

If you're in the desert how many lawns are you mowing? I'm in Phoenix and there are next to zero lawns. Maybe different by you, but I would learn how to trim shrubs like a boss. I've noticed there are two types of landscapers here. The crews that focus on retaining walls, stone planters, irrigation and pavers. The others take care of the smaller things that larger companies won't. Shrub trimming, weed control, smaller hardscape jobs. If you're one man (and dog) in a truck there is a niche to fill. 

Focus on neighborhoods, not individuals. If you can get 5 houses on one block and do them all in the same day, your efficiency will pay off. Market to the rest of the street while you're there. 
Learn how to spread stone. Refresh the thin spots on people's lots. 

You're going to have to be patient. Going headfirst into a trade you have no experience in is not going to pay off in spades right away. But if you show up when you say you will, answer the phone, and return calls you'll have a leg up on 90% of the small job landscapers, in my area at least. Good luck.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Desertstuff said:


> What exactly does it mean to pay the business? I have been using about 200 bucks a week to purchase better tools. What are some other good ways or re-investing in myself? I'm working on business cards and some logoed t-shirts as well.













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## RacinMason (Oct 26, 2017)

Do you have your name and number on your truck? Maybe get some yard signs to place in the yard you're currently working on. Keep your work truck clean and presentable. Like Reggi said, imagine you live in the neighborhood you're working in. Would you hire your company based on what you would see driving by? Most successful people want to hire someone successful, and someone they don't mind dealing with. Soon, your clients will be bragging about you and the word will get out.


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## RacinMason (Oct 26, 2017)

Mordekyle said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you reloading....357?


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## BC Rollin (Oct 15, 2021)

This thread has gone a lot different than I expected.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Kind of refreshing.


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