# Tearing Up Tile for My Folks (TILE GUYS PLEASE HELP!)- Opinions Please



## tuffplay (Sep 27, 2009)

Alright guys quick Q and A:

1. The folks are super cheapos; although they have money.
2. I did a HUGE paving job for them around thier pool; quote from local contractor was 30K. I did it for less than 7k, made 0 dollars - just to be nice, it was NOT appreciated.
3. They are remodeling their kitchen and have about 1100sq feet of new tile to go down.

Currently they are debating the following:

1. should they tear out the old tile, or put new tile on top?

Quote for removal is about 2600.00. I told them I would do it for them for 1000.00. I am wondering this:

There is a lot of thin set underneath the tile, I tested a small area and its not coming up with the tile. IF i rip the tile out, I am going to have to use a floor grinder to smooth everything out:

1. HAS ANYONE USED THESE - HOW WELL/FAST DO THEY WORK?

2. DO YOU THINK I SHOULD EVEN BOTHER TRYING TO HELP THEM?

3. CAN I GET THE THIN SET PRETTY SMOOTH AND LOWER IT SO THEY CAN JUST FLOAT THICKER THIN SET ON TOP?

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE - NEED TO START OR TELL THEM NO ASAP.

ONE GUY SAID HE COULD DRILL HOLES IN THE TILE AND THEN THIN SET ON TOP, ANOTHER GUY SAID HE COULD USE EPOXY BASE AND GO RIGHT OVER THE TOP, ANOTHER GUY SAID THEY ARE IDIOTS, TEAR OUT THE TILE.

A SIDE NOT: THE NEW TILE IS ACTUALLY STONE; TRAVER-TINE.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

Just run away:laughing:


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## tuffplay (Sep 27, 2009)

*Cant Just Run Away*

Unfortunately that is not really an option - how hard would this be seriously? I can post pics if needed.


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## mattp (Apr 5, 2006)

TEAR OUT THE TILE. Make sure who ever does the job to tear it out.


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## tuffplay (Sep 27, 2009)

*Re*

I wanted to take the tile out myself to save them some cash and make a little money for myself as business has been slow. I just want to know if the floor grinder will work "quickly" on lowering the thin set......


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

Tear out the tile is the correct answer - the sub floor is???


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

look into a small chiiping hammer with a wide chisel bit for thinset removal, you have to check for deflection, sub-fllor material, joist size, span spacing etc...


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

Definately rip up the tile - do not go over existing tile.

A floor grinder will definately help 

I might have missed it, but, what is under the tile- framed/subfloor or concrete??

If your folks are putting down stone do they realize (and this is if it is framed) that they need double the "strength" for their stone floor?

Working for family sucks!!


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## ARI001 (Jun 16, 2009)

Don't work for family. If I do work for family or friends I always make it clear that I am just lending a hand and expect no compensation other than food and drink while I am there. Working for family and friends usually causes hard feelings if you do so in a business like manner as they expect you to do twice as much for a fraction of what you should be charging. If you want to help your parents save money then do so, but don't try to have a business relationship with them. When helping my parents with projects I look at it like this: They put way more into raising me emotionally and monetarily then anyone could ever put a price tag on. I owe it to them to help them now that they are older and not as able to do things. 

That said, I make sure my parents understand that I have a business to run and that paying work must come first at all times in order to provide for my family. They also understand I will only be there on down time (week ends, holidays, time between projects) and that it is going to be just me or possibly a friend and myself, not employees and/or subcontractors.

As far as the tile removal goes tear it all out. Make sure the existing floor joists meet the required deflection rate and beef them up if they don't. Good luck.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ARI001 said:


> Don't work for family. If I do work for family or friends I always make it clear that I am just lending a hand and expect no compensation other than food and drink while I am there. Working for family and friends usually causes hard feelings if you do so in a business like manner as they expect you to do twice as much for a fraction of what you should be charging. If you want to help your parents save money then do so, but don't try to have a business relationship with them. When helping my parents with projects I look at it like this: They put way more into raising me emotionally and monetarily then anyone could ever put a price tag on. I owe it to them to help them now that they are older and not as able to do things.
> 
> That said, I make sure my parents understand that I have a business to run and that paying work must come first at all times in order to provide for my family. They also understand I will only be there on down time (week ends, holidays, time between projects) and that it is going to be just me or possibly a friend and myself, not employees and/or subcontractors.
> 
> As far as the tile removal goes tear it all out. Make sure the existing floor joists meet the required deflection rate and beef them up if they don't. Good luck.


 

Couldn't have been more spot on. I done some work for my bro in law which took over 3 months and he wanted me to do it for 1/4th what i would normally charge. Then a big family argument erupted and kicked of big time.


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## tuffplay (Sep 27, 2009)

*re - update*

Okay sorry I left this out:

Existing Tile is coated ceramic about 25 yr old and in decent shape.

Sub surface is concrete ( foundation)

1. Do they need to tear out the tile to install the stone or can they install on top of the tile? Why?

2. Whats the going rate for tile removal and thin set removal? (what would you charge to tear it up and haul it off - 1100 sq/ft

3. Anything special to keep in mind when installing stone instead of regular tile - aside from sealing? - 

Thanks

Paul


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

tuffplay said:


> Okay sorry I left this out:
> 
> Existing Tile is coated ceramic about 25 yr old and in decent shape.
> 
> ...


Based on your previous post about doing work for them, i would avoid it like the plague.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Charging labor to the people who raised you, and paid for everything from the day you were born?
I see your company is "Paul & Son". Learn how to spell *Karma* now, because in a few decades you just may be meeting it, face-to-face.

If you cannot afford to buy the material for them, that's one thing. But to charge for a little time and sweat?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

From what I found:

Friends expect you to work for cheap.....

Family expects you to work for free.

If I help my family or they help me a dollar never comes out of pocket except for buying the beer, coffee and pizza.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

*Demo tiles on slab*

The best way to remove those tiles is with a little demo hammer. I like to start by vibrating the tops of the tile in as small section maybe 4' x 4'. Just try and vibrate and crack the tops don't dig into the tile. Then go back and hit the edge at about 30 degree angle and the tiles should start popping off. The vibrating first helps with the removal and helps bring up more thin set with the tile.

Travertine is softer than the ceramic you have now and some kind of anti fracture material should be used in the new install.

Lots of on John Bridges web site for this same question.

Good Luck


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## Cdat (Apr 18, 2007)

Can afford the work but expect you to do it for free? Can anyone say HACK?!? Thank you. Disown your family.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

They had the balls to get quotes?

Disown them.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

tuffplay,

Aside from the obvious family issues :wacko: here are a few things to watch for.

You said original installation of 25+ years old. Are you _sure _that's thinset under the tiles and not a mastic? If it's mastic, it *must* be removed.

For removal pricing shifty I'd guess around 12-14 man hours to remove just the tile without being able to see what needs to be done. Multiply that number by what you feel is a fair hourly wage. In my area $300 for debris haul. 

As already stated, if the old thinset is removed, it will be a _very _dirty job. That would also more than double the hours for demo. 

What I'd do is remove everything and start clean. Install Ditra (or equivalent membrane). Install stone.

If old adhesive is, in fact, thinset and it's not fully removed, I'd consider using a SLC to smooth out the surface. If not, with installing the stone you're looking at coverage issues and _good luck _getting someone to be able to keep lippage to a minimum!


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## Dan V. (Oct 16, 2008)

> If old adhesive is, in fact, thinset and it's not fully removed, I'd consider using a SLC to smooth out the surface. If not, with installing the stone you're looking at coverage issues and _good luck _getting someone to be able to keep lippage to a minimum!


Yep, what he said, especially about the lippage.

You may want to consider using an air chisel to get that old tile out. I sure as hell wouldn't want to tear out 1100 sq. ft. by hand. After it's up, check subfloor condition (cracks, level, moisture, etc.) and remediate. An SLC is a definite consideration, especially if you're going with large format tile (12" x 12" and larger).

Unless you have a good wet saw and have set tile in the past, I'd hire a pro. That whole situation sounds like a nightmare about to happen.


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## WilsonRMDL (Sep 4, 2007)

get a nice chipping hammer and have at it. Wide chisels work great, I think bosch makes a wide blade chisel specifically for removing tile, works good on old thinset too.


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