# 3 hole brick



## jweaver07 (Aug 21, 2016)

Hey guys,
Was looking for some feedback on mortar usage laying 3hole Brick vs 10hole Brick. I'm using around 10 bags per thousand. This is large commercial job and is what I expect, but would like to see anyone here has an idea on cutting it back


----------



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Unfortunately,three hole brick are what they are. I see no way to cut it back on the mud.IMHO,three hole brick are the pits !


----------



## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Tell the guys not to drop so much down the cavity.


----------



## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Add more sand or mix it stiffer. bout all you can do.


----------



## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

jweaver07 said:


> Hey guys,
> Was looking for some feedback on mortar usage laying 3hole Brick vs 10hole Brick. I'm using around 10 bags per thousand. This is large commercial job and is what I expect, but would like to see anyone here has an idea on cutting it back


Are you using 'S' or 'N'?....70#-75# bags? You should be getting 7 bags to the 1000. We've always used 18 'good' shovels of sand per bag.


----------



## jweaver07 (Aug 21, 2016)

Type n. And we also are 18 shovels per bag . I just can't get it down to anywhere near seven bags. Monday we got 12 bags to 1300 even tightened up the mud and that was the best I can get


----------



## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

jweaver07 said:


> Hey guys,
> Was looking for some feedback on mortar usage laying 3hole Brick vs 10hole Brick. I'm using around 10 bags per thousand. This is large commercial job and is what I expect, but would like to see anyone here has an idea on cutting it back


cutting back?? LOL add more sand to the mix... bright side is that you might score a nice tuckpoint job in about 12 years or so?!?!? LOL

Years ago the brick manufactures told us they were adding more holes to help with bonding with mortar....then the holes gradually got bigger... yea better bonding! more like saving clay so they can make more money causing us to need more mortar to build the same wall


----------



## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

The cost of clay is trivial. The more consistently sized all parts of the brick are the less warping during firing. Best is obviously a solid, but if it is going to be cored, they try and keep the webs and faces the same thickness.


----------



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Windycity said:


> Years ago the brick manufactures told us they were adding more holes to help with bonding with mortar....then the holes gradually got bigger... yea better bonding! more like saving clay so they can make more money causing us to need more mortar to build the same wall




:thumbsup:


Yeah,we all heard the same drivel from the brick producers that holes improve bond. Only thing,a college student did extensive tests that refute that idea. Also,another test disproved the B.I.A.s tech. note that mortar has less bond to used brick. That is a interesting concept,follow the money trail,maybe one can figure out why they would make that kind of statement.:whistling


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Tscarborough said:


> The cost of clay is trivial. The more consistently sized all parts of the brick are the less warping during firing. Best is obviously a solid, but if it is going to be cored, they try and keep the webs and faces the same thickness.


I'm guessing it's more the cost of shipping. Less material makes for lighter freight.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Inner10 said:


> I'm guessing it's more the cost of shipping. Less material makes for lighter freight.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk





Cheaper freight is definitely a big factor,along with quicker firing and less fuel.


----------



## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

A few years ago the ASTM committee that handles Masonry and Concrete meet and CHANGED the rule that anything that had more then 25% cores(air) weren't brick, but were tile....

Lindsay Ellingston, a former Union and non-Union Mason, who "worked" as a salesman/ supervisor of salesman, was one member of the Committee that endorsed the perverted change that allows the Brick manufacturers to produce 10-20% more units of brick in the exact same amount of time as the firing time is reduced by thinning of the sections of the brick...
And about 5-10% more of the now lighter brick can be hauled on the 85,000 lb GVR Semi-Truck and trailer.

While the production cost of bricks are reduced by the use of MORE AIR, the INSTALLED cost per Square foot of surface area and per Cubic foot of wall has risen far more then the manufacturers savings, Thus the "new brick" as a system are quite a bit more expensive as 10 -20 % more Mortar is needed, and thus the time taken to spread, and the time added by now added necessary return motions to the mortar boards to obtain enough Mud to fill the head joints, as there is less extruded mud to use for butter head joints with the added monkey motion of the refilling of one's trowel...

When ever possible I recommend the smaller hole brick as they use much less mortar, = greater production.

I have used grout stop strips on residential veneers, but the time spent rolling out the mesh, doesn't save much time.:whistling It might pay better on colored mortars and white cement mortars... of course.

My personal experience is 125 brick/batch or 8 bags to 1000 old standard brick, is now 110 maybe,/batch or 9+bags to 1000 tile style units.

The Brick manufacturer's Greed actually ends with fewer brick sold as the installed cost per Unit is now greater making more customers choose cheaper alternatives......:sad:


----------



## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Fouthgeneration said:


> The Brick manufacturer's Greed actually ends with fewer brick sold as the installed cost per Unit is now greater making more customers choose cheaper alternatives......:sad:


 :thumbsup:

Wow ! That is a mouthful of truth ! Not to mention the producers buying each other up,shuttering plants in order to throttle down the competition. Not to mention the distributors consolidating and following suite of the producers.


Around me,there are around 18 brick distributors (at least it appears that way to those not in the know) . Reason being,14 are part of the same conglomerate. Do you think the free market is alive and well here ? The answer is a resounding NO .


The brick producers love to claim high fuel costs for the high price of brick. In reality,one of the newest,largest,state of the art plants in the country is in Indiana. Guess what kind and where they get their fuel ? They suck the methane gas off the huge landfill across the road from them. I seriously doubt the fuel costs are high. Who knows,they may even be paid to extract it.


----------

