# Part-time excavation business



## Big Chris

First post. I've been following this site for a while and I've picked up a lot of good information and advise. I'm looking for some advise. I'm a journeyman electrician and I work for my father's company. I enjoy electrical work but it is the underground aspect of it I like the most. I always planned on taking dad's business over and I still may but I'd like to try my had at excavation first. I worked for an excavation company in college and fell in love with Iron. My operating experience consists mainly of digging trenches for electrical conduit, stump removal, and concrete/ashpalt removal. I'd like to start a backhoe and trench service and do as many different kinds of jobs as I can with my machine. Last spring I bought a 99 JCB 214 E. We use it for dad's company as well. I already have a truck and trailer big enough to haul it around. I have no desire to quit working for dad. I'm hoping to work some nights and weekends and see how it goes at first. The biggest question in my mind right now is Insurance. I've yet to talk to my insurance man and I would like a rough Idea before I go in to talk with him. Is anybody a part time one man backhoe service (or Mini EX for that matter)that would care to give me a ball park answer for what Liability insurance will cost? Any advise for someone starting out would be greatly appreciated! Thanks and sorry for the long post.


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## rino1494

Sorry, I can't help you out on this topic. PM jojo, he has a part time backhoe service.

http://www.contractortalk.com/member.php?find=lastposter&t=12914


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## LNG24

Part Time vs Full Time

Your insurance company won't care...Its the same price!

One other thing I saw in your post. You might be able to do electrical work on the side, weekends or night, but not excavation work:whistling 

Weekends, YES. Nights NO. Save that for when you have experience and only then Emergence Work:thumbup: 

Your insurance company is going to charge you by the type of work you do. You will have to be specific and if you work outside of that list, you are not covered. Have them prepare a few different quotes. If you do this or if you do that. Some areas require a seperate license for different work. For example, around here you might need a Spetic Installers license unless you are doing a sewer. Then you need a Plumbers license. 

Best thing to do is to start keep track of how long it takes you to dig a utility trench, how long it takes you to back fill it and how much sand backfill you use. Once you have your numbers down you can start to estimate jobs a bit easier. Not only for your time, but customer don't like having you say it will take a day and then it takes three unless you have good reason.

Hope this helps.


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## dirt diggler

most of your clientele will need that backhoe work done on a Wednesday morning around 7-8 AM ---- not on Sundays



heck, long as it's paying for itself during the week, do whatcha want with it


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## Big Chris

Thanks for the input. I realize that If I was to work as a sub of a plumber or electrical contractor digging trenches that it primarily would be done during "normal" business hours. I may have better luck working for homeowners in the evenings or on weekends. I should have been more specific. I don't want to work at "night", I was refering to after 5pm until dark in the summer. Basically I love operating the machine and am looking for a way to make more money using equipment I already own.:thumbup:


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## 4theroc

big chris, let me get this straight if u went to college or finished college, why are u working for your dad full time as an electrician? but general 100,000 dollar liability shouldnt run you over $80 per month. Its all based off of the danger of the work involved. Never tell them you will be doing highway work. They will eat you alive on that one Where the insurance get's high is when you need workmans compensation and all that stuff.


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## Big Chris

4theroc said:


> big chris, let me get this straight if u went to college or finished college, why are u working for your dad full time as an electrician? but general 100,000 dollar liability shouldnt run you over $80 per month. Its all based off of the danger of the work involved. Never tell them you will be doing highway work. They will eat you alive on that one Where the insurance get's high is when you need workmans compensation and all that stuff.


 
I graduated with a BBA. I then entered the electrician's apprentistship through the local union who Dad is a signitory contractor with. I wanted to be licensed to be able to do the work not just be stuck in the office. Eventually I'll get my master's license and contractors license so I can pull permits as an electrical contractor. I plan to eventually take his business over. I didn't just want to be the boss's college kid son who didn't really know how to do the work in the field! However, I've found that I love running equipment even more than electrical work. If I start this business it will be to see how much I enjoy it and I may grow it into a full time operation and expand the scope of work that I'd do. I'll have to make a decision then as to have one company or the other or maybe both.


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## dayexco

4theroc said:


> big chris, let me get this straight if u went to college or finished college, why are u working for your dad full time as an electrician? but general 100,000 dollar liability shouldnt run you over $80 per month. Its all based off of the danger of the work involved. Never tell them you will be doing highway work. They will eat you alive on that one Where the insurance get's high is when you need workmans compensation and all that stuff.



i would disagree with this suggestion. always, always inform your agent and have proper coverage on the type of work you'll be doing. if you're going to be sticking that backhoe bucket in the ground, you'll definitely want XCU ins. "explosion, collapse, underground". i would be deathly afraid of pulling on any job with a 100k liability limit. man, that doesn't buy too much medical care for somebody you hurt, let alone property damage. most of our projects will not let you onsite without a min. of 2 million liability.


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## Big Chris

dayexco said:


> i would disagree with this suggestion. always, always inform your agent and have proper coverage on the type of work you'll be doing. if you're going to be sticking that backhoe bucket in the ground, you'll definitely want XCU ins. "explosion, collapse, underground". i would be deathly afraid of pulling on any job with a 100k liability limit. man, that doesn't buy too much medical care for somebody you hurt, let alone property damage. most of our projects will not let you onsite without a min. of 2 million liability.


 
I agree. There are a lot of things buried that if I hit something such as fiber or a gas line 100k wouldn't last too long getting them fixed. God forbid hurting someone in the process...I will be honest with the ins. co. as to what I plan to do. Calling Miss Dig is a given whenever we dig for dad's business and I will do the same. I'm not afraid of the shovel. Better safe than sorry.


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## bobbyg

Chris, i started a Bobcat business last year...im a part timer also...my insurance for the Bobcat biz is about $1000/year...and thats for liability up to $1 million...

however this policy clearly states no utility work to be performed, so you'll be more than this...hope this helds


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## tnmtn

chris,
you are getting great advice. as far as the insurance you will get what you pay for. it will depend on coverage. definitly let the agent know what you are doing and doublecheck that it is in your policy. as far as coverage that will be up to you. what risks are involved in your area and what is required by the builders for coverage. i started my search for insurance with the company that has my car and home insurance. shopped other places and ended up where i started. due to having other insurance with them i got some discounts that helped. i would suggest making a list of what you are planning to do and how much liability you need. that will give you a start and make it less likely to forget something when shopping.
good luck with your bussiness


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## denick

B. C.,

Something that may give an edge to a small one man business trying to work as a sub contractor is to get a minimum Workers Comp policy. In CT a one man out fit costs between $700. to $900. Since there are no employees about you get a refund of $400. to $500. dollars. You need to give that to them the next year again but for the real cost of $500. you have something that makes you very attractive to a contractor. Our insurance company is not accepting that a sub does not have WC anymore when it comes to audit. 

I will pay more to a guy that has it.

On your limits you want to have what the contractors you work for are required to have. Most insurance companies are starting to charge the difference to the contractor if a sub doesn't have the same minimum coverage.

Both things can be a good selling point to quality contractors.


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## tgeb

Holy Cow!  

My insurance for General liability and minimum workers comp was over 7K when I started in 1986. (I do have underground, explosion, collapse).

It is obscene what I pay now, are you sure you are covered?

I know I sometimes over pay for things, but I cannot imagine a policy for $1 million liability, for $1,000/year. 
My auto is more than that. (for the wifes car).

Send your agent my phone number....I'm ready to switch!:sad:


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## denick

tgeb,

Thats for a WC policy for a 1 man company. No employee's and it doesn't cover the owner. You have the insurance coverage but no one is being covered because you have no employees.

We had to have it 13 years ago when I rebuilt a wall for a power plant down in a river. I was working alone at the time but I had to have the insurance in place. We actually became a preferred contractor because of that job.


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## tgeb

I understand that Nick, I had a workers comp/ owner exempt policy for many years. That policy had a minimum of something like $1,400 annual.

I can't get over the 80 bucks a month for 100K or the $1,000/yr for 1 million liability coverage. :blink:


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## the_turd_man

Im paying $12,000.oo yr 2mil liab & wc 1 ft employee / 1 pt 
which I think is highway robbery


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## Big Chris

Thanks for all the information. I know pretty much what to expect when I go talk to my Ins. company later in the week.


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## the_turd_man

BIG CHRIS Heres some advice starting out. register as a soleproprietor
get a workmans comp exemption cert. #2 start out with 1 mil liab
if you need laborers use labor svc bums they come with wc at about $12-14 hr you should get the coverage you need to start around
$3000 year


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## jojo

I pay about $750.00..per year


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## PipeGuy

4theroc said:


> ... general 100,000 dollar liability shouldnt run you over $80 per month. Its all based off of the danger of the work involved. Never tell them you will be doing highway work. They will eat you alive on that one...


??
If you don't accurately state your exposures to your agent you can believe the insurance will be worthless WHEN you have a REAL claim.


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