# Tear Off or Reroof ?



## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

I've been back in the trades about 2 yrs now. Was a mfg plant mgr for 10 yrs. Prior to that I was a licensed contractor in Maryland for 10 yrs. I did additions, decks, stores, reno's etc. 

I'm in NC now. Why do I see so many 1 - layer tear off (asphalt / FG shingles) and completely new shingles installed here ?? Back in MD we always went over an existing roof if it was in good shape. Didn't even think about tearing off if there was only one layer. Seems like 80% of the roof jobs here are tear offs regardless.

Just want to get a couple of straight answers from some folks in the Southeast who do this.

Steve


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## Punch List D (Feb 6, 2008)

I don't do much roofing but I do not know answer. Seems customers think tear-off is a new job and layover is more like patching. No good answer. Where are you in NC ? I'm in sandhills (Pinehurst)


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

We Fix Houses said:


> I've been back in the trades about 2 yrs now. Was a mfg plant mgr for 10 yrs. Prior to that I was a licensed contractor in Maryland for 10 yrs. I did additions, decks, stores, reno's etc.
> 
> I'm in NC now. Why do I see so many 1 - layer tear off (asphalt / FG shingles) and completely new shingles installed here ?? Back in MD we always went over an existing roof if it was in good shape. Didn't even think about tearing off if there was only one layer. Seems like 80% of the roof jobs here are tear offs regardless.
> 
> ...


Tear off and reroof makes more money

You are able to check the sheathing and make sure everything is solid and limit your liabilty

Alot of my roofing contractors feel more confident in their work if they tear off, check everything and make sure they are not covering up a bad sheathing or shingle job


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

Tearoff always makes for an easier and neater installation plus, as said above, you can also check to make sure the structure is still in good condition. 

That said tearoffs boil down to two reasons. 1. the local bldg codes 2. the condition of the existing roofing. Sometimes, based on the curling or lumps in the existing roofs, I will always _recommend _tearing the old off, but leave it as an option explaining to the customer that a recover may not look as good as tearing it off and starting with a nice smooth deck. Unless it's a rental or something and the person only cares about the cost, the majority of customers actually go with the tearoff option.

I think all roofers will agree, it's always nicer to start off with a clean slate on any roof.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

In my working area it is now code to tear off due to being in the hail zone. The idea was that if insurance companies had no choice in paying for a tear off then everyone has to.

It makes my job easier. No longer will I have to convince a home owner to tear off rather than to shingle over. Last roof over dates back to 2006.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

Are the new shingles laminated architectural? when doing a layover you can butt up the new to the old with three tab. Can't do that with laminated if the old roof is like 5 1/4 exposure or worse. Best to tear it off. Three tab you can continue to butt up and won't look terrible from the ground.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Besides the other answers, more money, more time for guys on a particular job, less total sales required, better job, no humps at the gable edges, no 4 layer look to the eave and gable edge reveal, decking can get repaired after being inspected, adding Ice and Water Shield, and also, their will be no pockets of heat trapped in between layers which would assist in premature deterioration.

Ed


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## PlainPainter (Dec 29, 2004)

To me the lifecycle of a roof should include one go-over - I don't understand the desire to tear off each time - if you get a roof in good shape albeit 20 yrs old - but in decent shape, with a good roof decking - why tear at all? Not to mention with all the *****(I&W) on roof deckings these days - you are going to have to convince homeowners that they will be getting a bunch of roof decking replaced as well each time? When I side dormers with shakes or clapboards - I leave just enought room where it meets the roofline to put in one more full course of roofing shingles - by the time you need to rip - you got a solid 50 years on the roof - and now it makes sense to re-shake the dormers and replace lots of decking.


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

Thanks for the replies.

I'm talking about going back over an existing with 3 tab. Always comes out looking good. I've done them even in white. 

Ed The Roofer, you are one of the most respected contributers here and on another forum I participate in. Let's clarify that there is no 4 layer effect along the gable / rake. The gable and rake are cut back with a hook blade. The new overlay roof is then all you see hanging over the edge. You probably don't do any re roofs...That makes more sense.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I read or heard that in the SE there is significantly more moisture in the air / attic etc over time and overlaying a roof really pushes the limits of the sheathing / structure even more so, sometimes even with one roof. Just trying to see if anyone could attest to that or knows that's the reason...I just want to know what I'm talking about when the time comes. I'm up for doing overlay work to a certain extent but I don't like to do stuff that I haven't figured out what's what for myself and the customer. 

Steve


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Having done Ruffin' in Atlanta for 5 years, the ONLY overs we would do were on HUD, subsidized and quick-turn-for-profit-in-the-Ghetto homes. Tamco and not GAF. Real home, real owner. GAF and not Owens and never an over. Aways a tear off with a contractual clause for increasing the bid concerning the inspection of the decking. Ice and Water in the valley's, metal drip, always a reverse starter and edge.

Although I was more of a Firestone torch-down guy than an asphalt three tab.

Forgot to mention the Ridge Vent Up-sell.


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

ED you forgot to mention WARRANTY on a roof over, I think thats a major reason why WE dont do them


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

A W Smith said:


> Are the new shingles laminated architectural? when doing a layover you can butt up the new to the old with three tab. Can't do that with laminated if the old roof is like 5 1/4 exposure or worse. Best to tear it off. Three tab you can continue to butt up and won't look terrible from the ground.



It is my experience that if the customer can afford and the house calls for Architectural, they can afford the tear-off and dumpster costs. That is if they want to "keep up with the Joneses".


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

When I first started roofing we did go-overs all the time. Now we install almost zero per year. Custumers are more educated than they once were and see the value to less weight, a new roof should also have new flashing,felt,I&W,and inspection of the deck and upgraded ventilation. just to name a few. With laminated you really cant go over anyway. the only people who ask these days are the ones that are selling there house.LOL


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## al10fred1081 (Feb 9, 2008)

A W Smith said:


> Are the new shingles laminated architectural? when doing a layover you can butt up the new to the old with three tab. Can't do that with laminated if the old roof is like 5 1/4 exposure or worse. Best to tear it off. Three tab you can continue to butt up and won't look terrible from the ground.


The butt-up option sounds good to me :whistling

seriously though I worked in MD for a number of years and for some reason most of the roofers out there are willing to shingle right over the old stuff. Now I'm in PA and almost everyone tears off, which I agree with. my partner tore off and ended up replacing half the sheathing on the roof. good money, hard work.

Alex


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

You can find a crew who will tear-off and put-on for x$'s a square and you can still make $1000-$1500 or more per roof without touching a Hitachi or LadderVator once.

The best part is you pay them but they do not work for you! And I do not mean 1099.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

We Fix Houses said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> I'm talking about going back over an existing with 3 tab. Always comes out looking good. I've done them even in white.
> 
> ...



I've seen the four layers on the rakes like Ed mentioned several times. The correct way IMO is to cut off the overhang all the way around and install drip edge and or gutter apron. Of course it's been almost two years since the last roof over, and that should be the last, thank goodness.

Nothing worse than tearing off two layers of shingles. Last year I got about 20 calls from the ghetto and never went to one. My dad has told me many stories of doing roofs in the 80's in Minneapolis in the ghetto's.


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

Insurance companies and Manufacturers both frown upon lay overs due to the fact if there is hail damage or faulty materials they have to pay the additional cost of tearing off 2 layers instead of one.

If you remove all old overhangs and ridge caps and remover tabs a few courses high on the eaves and in stall new drip, ventilation and plumbing stack flashings etc you can layover even with 3-d and if done properly you are actually incapsuling the existing roof thus eliminating any type of trapped heat or moisture between the 2 roofs.

Done properly there as good a roof as a re roof in both longevity and cosmetics but that don't change the fact the Big Boyz frown on doing them thus i only offer lay overs if the home owners budget won't allow for a re roof.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

We Fix Houses said:


> Ed The Roofer, you are one of the most respected contributers here and on another forum I participate in. *Let's clarify that there is no 4 layer effect along the gable / rake. The gable and rake are cut back with a hook blade. The new overlay roof is then all you see hanging over the edge.* You probably don't do any re roofs...That makes more sense.


I have done enough re-roofs in my earlier starting out years, before I properly knew how to educate the customer about the more correct method of application which would result in a better ROI down the road and a higher resale value.

The last reroof that my company did, was probably around 4-6 years ago, and that was because they were putting the house up for sale.

I do want to comment regarding your cutting back method though. That would be the better and much more aesthetic method of doing a re-roof, but it is rarely done around my parts.

I catch about one ever 2nd year though, that I bid as a one layer tear-off and it winds up being more. Good thing I added a clause to my contract to cover the potential lost labor and time involved. When that does occur, I get an additional fee that is very accomodating to me having to spend longer on the job than originally scheduled for and I have the home owner sign an extra work change order to authenticate the additional change in the specifications proposed.

Thank you for the compliment, and if I may ask, which other forum? I do not readily recognize your user name.

Ed


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

Happy Home at JLC.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

We wn't warranty a lay-over on a shingle roof period. Would you work all day then go to the gym after work and then come home, change your clothes andgo to dinner with the wife? No? Then why would you put a good roof over an old.

Heck you're not even putting on a ROOF, you are just installing shingles. It's not like it's a system or anything. It's not like any of the hacks that do lay overs pay attention to ventilation problems or flashing damages. They just slap new shingles over the old and call it a roof.

Tear it off and compete on quality. 

While the city of Chicago allows 3 layers of roofing, many of the high end residential villages surrounding the city are no longer allowing multiple layers of roofing. Kudos to them, and I look forward to more adopting the same attitude.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Pearce Services said:


> OK so now its boston vs new york, do we need to start a new thread?
> 
> I'm gonna have to start googling "alex rodriguez" and "***** slap" so I can have some videos to put up on my posts


Nah...no new thread needed! 

EVERYBODY knows how that topic ends (with New York on top!)!










:laughing:


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

Ohh Boyy. this thread has really gone down a rathole.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Ahhh.
Chalk it up to Cabin Fever for me. 
I'm starting and maintaining debates here just to have something to do. 
Even I can't believe some of the bait I've thrown up here. 
:laughing:

Spring can't come early enough for me.


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