# Help with my painting process + Airless Spray.



## Phouvieng (May 26, 2005)

Hello all! I dont know how odd it would be to introduce myself, but I just thought it would be a good way to start things off. So with that said, my name is Phouvieng, I'm 19 years old and I'm from Rochester, NY. Anyways, I've been painting for about 4-5 years, started off an "under-study"; Job was going great for a couple years, but to make the story short, I eventually got screwed big time. So now I'm working as a "head painter" under a new contractor, I'm currently in the works of starting my own thing, and these are where my questions kick in.. 

My questions aren't anything too specific, I just wanted to see what some of you guys did differently and what some of you guys did the same. All the houses we do are rehabs, I pretty much dont touch anything until all the dywall/compounding is finished. This is my process..

*1.) Fill all nail holes(painters putty '35' or '55', I have no idea what the number means, but it's on the can).
2.) Sand all baseboards, windows, and door casings.
3.) Caulk(DAP Latex) all baseboards, windows, and door casings.
4.) Prime(B-I-N shellac base) all baseboards, windows, and door casings.
5.) 
- If on new drywall: Prime(BEHR New Drywall Primer) ceilings and walls. 
- If on existing/painted wall: Prime(KILZ Latex Primer) ceilings and walls. 
6.) Sand(100 grit) ceilings, walls, baseboards, windows, and door casings.
7.) First coat(BEHR Hi-Gloss Latex) Window and door casings.
3.) Sand(200 grit) Window and door casings.
4.) Second coat(BEHR Hi-Glass Latex + Floetrol) Window and door casings.
5.) First coat(BEHR Flat Latex) ceiling. 
6.) Compound/Fix any spots in ceiling.
7.) Sand(200 grit) ceiling.
8.) Second coat(BEHR Flat Latex) ceiling.
9.) Cut and roll first coat(BEHR Eggshell Latex) Wall.
10.) Compound/Fix any spots in wall.
11.) Sand(200 grit) walls. 
13.) Cut and roll second coat(BEHR Eggshell Latex + FLOETROL) wall.
14.) First coat(BEHR Hi-Gloss Latex) baseboards.
15.) Sand(200 grit) baseboards.
16.) Second coat(BEHR Hi-Gloss Latex + FLOETROL) baseboards. *

 -- Geez, that was alot, sorry about that guys. So does anyone go through the same process as me? If not, what do you guys do differently? Obviously, people who spray will do things differently. I'm looking to acquire an airless sprayer, sometime within' the next few jobs. I know very little about airless sprayers, and need alot of help in this case. So here are my questions:

*- What would be a good(and by good I mean affordable) airless sprayer that I can use for learning, but at the same time is going to get the job done? 

- Can I spray finishing coats with an airless sprayer? We finish with a Hi-Gloss Latex.

- I often hear people using the term, "Backrolling" after they've sprayed. Can someone give me an exact definition of what backrolling is? I think I have an idea of what it is, but I just want to be sure. 
*
And lastly, just anymore tips or suggestions on my process and the use of an airless sprayer. I know I'm still a beginner, so I apologize for all the beginner questions.

Thanks in advance for any help, later guys!


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Your list sounds good except for:

Always caulk _after_ priming.
Step 10 should come right after Step 5.
The product selection leaves a lot to be desired.

Check Sherwin Williams for sprayer deals.

Backrolling is rolling directly after spraying to work the paint in and give it a stipple.

Might be hard to get a good finish spraying high-gloss, but I don't spray much. Someone with more spraying time would know.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Hey man...sounds like a thorough deal to me with the exceptions PWG mentioned. However, I would ditch the Behr paints for Sherwin Williams Duration, Superpaint, Cashmere, and a good cheaper product that gives decent results is Master Hide. I use master hide for anything from walls, ceilings, trim, etc. depending on the type of job I'm doing. Most of my customers get the Duration though, because I recommend the best. DAP is cheap runny caulk if you ask me (and many others I'm sure)....use some 1100A from SW. Get an account (even just a cash account) and tell them you're a contractor. They will give you a good discount, and bend over backwards to serve you....and you can ensure your customers consistent quality, with proven painting systems by sticking to one mfg. (that behr really is the bottome of the shoe of the painting industry) 

You can spray high gloss, but I would only do trim with high gloss anyway. I just don't subscribe to high gloss walls. A good satin, matte, or at the very highest sheen I would use a semi-gloss on walls. If I spray trim, typically the second coat is brushed on...

Backrolling - There are a few different ways to use backrolling. First, when spraying, allow a minute or two for paint to "tack" a little, then roll out the walls. Like PWG said, it gives the walls a stipple, or roller texture. Not only that, but backrolling after letting it tack slightly will improve coverage/holdout of each coat. However, you can also backroll when cutin' and rollin' walls. I typically (when I need to cover some really ugly stuff) roll one wall, then go back to the beginning rolling the whole wall without re-dipping the roller. 

The way I was taught, backrolling by this method allows you to re-distribute the heavier areas of paint (where the tips of the stipples are) to give better coverage in one coat, in theory anyway. It makes sense, and it works. 

Call me long-winded....cuz I am!  For spray rigs....well, I know alot of people here disagree with this, but I'll say it anyway. I have a Magnum XR-9 from the box store (home depot) and I've had it in service for about 6 months now without a single hiccup. It's easy to use, easy to clean and maintain...and you can always buy thier extended warranty for a few extra bucks....Coming in at just under $600, I think SW would have a hard time being comparable as far as bang for the buck.. 

Had to edit: I have also used other Magnum sprayers from Graco. I wouldn't try to get away with buying one of the smaller versions than the one I mentioned. I literally burnt up one of the Magnum DX toy sprayers they sell. Those will not last spraying whole houses..


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## Phouvieng (May 26, 2005)

ProWallGuy and AAPaint -- Thanks for the quick responses guys! Very much appreciated!

ProWallGuy, you mentioned that you dont do much spraying; So assuming that you brush everything, do you have any tips on brushing baseboards/trim work? Every now and then, I'll get it to look great, but then another time, it'll still show brush strokes. I've always assumed it's because I experiment with the amounts of Floetrol I'm using, but let me know, please!

By the way, as far as the products/materials used, they're all picked by my bosses.. I really have no say, I've actually been used to using Benjamin Moore as of until I quit my last job. But being that I'm trying to start my own thing up, I'll definitely take these into consideration. AAPaint, you mentioned 4 different kinds of paints("Sherwin Williams Duration, Superpaint, Cashmere, and a good cheaper product that gives decent results is Master Hide."); can you give me an idea of what each paint is/can be used for? For example, I'm guessing "Master Hide" is a primer? No? etc.

And lastly, AAPaint, sorry if I'm sounding dumb here, but what is a "cash account"? 

Thanks again guys! Really appreciate it, later!


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

> ProWallGuy, you mentioned that you dont do much spraying; So assuming that you brush everything, do you have any tips on brushing baseboards/trim work? Every now and then, I'll get it to look great, but then another time, it'll still show brush strokes. I've always assumed it's because I experiment with the amounts of Floetrol I'm using, but let me know, please!


Best tip would be to buy a couple good brushes. Not cheapos, but high quality brushes. I personally use all Wooster brushes, with the exception of a Corona or two. Some of my guys like Purdy, it just depends on what you are comfortable with. Use a 2 1/2" angle sash for trim, and a 3" sash for flat surfaces. 

Also need good rollers/covers. Buy the best for the job. Lambswool will give an awesome finish when learned to use correctly. We use almost exclusively Woosters, mainly the 3/4" 50/50 wool/synthetic blend.

We never use Floetrol, or any paint conditioner unless its exterior, and very hot/dry, and the paint is drying faster than you can stoke it out, or to thin for spraying. All others, we just paint it straight.

I also spec Benjamin Moore for 99% of the jobs we do.


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## donb1959 (Dec 9, 2004)

> 1.) Fill all nail holes(painters putty '35' or '55', I have no idea what the number means, but it's on the can).


I always putty after primeing, without primer on the wood the oil in the putty will "leak" into the bare wood causeing the putty to shrink


> 2.) Sand all baseboards, windows, and door casings.


Why would you sand bare wood?


> 3.) Caulk(DAP Latex) all baseboards, windows, and door casings.


 Again, caulking bare wood will cause shrinking


> 4.) Prime(B-I-N shellac base) all baseboards, windows, and door casings.


 Primeing walls and trim is my first step


> 6.) Sand(100 grit) ceilings, walls, baseboards, windows, and door casings.


 I do this after everythings primed


> 7.) First coat(BEHR Hi-Gloss Latex) Window and door casings.


 I use Valspar products, semi gloss


> 5.) First coat(BEHR Flat Latex) ceiling.


 I always do my cielings first, then walls then trim...again Valspar products


> Compound/Fix any spots in wall.


 Yup


> 11.) Sand(200 grit) walls.


 I use 150



> What would be a good(and by good I mean affordable) airless sprayer that I can use for learning, but at the same time is going to get the job done?


 I still use my trusty Tech from Lowes $600.00, keep it clean, and keep throat oil in it, runs like a champ...oh yeah and an aside I always run kero through it when done..keeps the lines supple, and oil in the pump.



> Can I spray finishing coats with an airless sprayer? We finish with a Hi-Gloss Latex.


 Yes, if you will look through the archives Ive detailed how I spray everything.


> I often hear people using the term, "Backrolling" after they've sprayed. Can someone give me an exact definition of what backrolling is? I think I have an idea of what it is, but I just want to be sure.


 Mainly backrolling allows for easier touchup with a roller should the need arise...I never backroll.

You ask good questions...all the best with your venture


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## shopdust (Apr 9, 2005)

Cash Account= You pay cash and always give the same business name when they ask. Frequently the amount of discount gets bigger as the amount you spend get's bigger.
Also, stores monitor your total spending and if it drops off, they'll call and ask why.

If your on your own, avoid the big box stores, the guy with the corner store is a better referral source, especially hardware stores. One hand washes the other!


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

No problem helping out...I still need lots myself. 

As for the products I use (AAPaint takes deep breath). I use mainly Duration for interior walls, and alot of times the master hide for trim. Duration is one of SW's premium quality paints that gives awesome results. Excellent hide, washable, extremely durable, etc...The master hide is a contractor grade paint that is a little more economic, and again..a good product in all aspects. It gives excellent hiding and is self priming on drywall...builders around here use it alot in new contstruction, and I consider it a great primer coat when a new homeowner wants that first repaint. Just clean, sand with 150grit to degloss, and repaint. Cashmere was designed for paint contractors. It's extra silky, goes on easy, give excellent hide, and has superior leveling properties....meaning it lays down real smooth. Also, only comes in flat, low lustre, and medium lustre. Super paint comes in interior/exterior and is a HEAVY acrylic latex that is GREAT for almost all of your exterior needs. The exterior superpaint and the interior duration are both mold resistant paints. Oh yeah.....duration is also low VOC (volatile organic compounds) meaning lower odor, another good selling point. All of these are latex products. I try to stay away from oil now if I can, and there's not problem putting any of these over old oil finishes. 

The cash account you can start at any time. Tell them you're a new contractor and would like a cash account in your name or your companies name. Once you're in the system they will track what products you use and offer you the best discounts on the products you use most....at least my store does. Not to mention, being a contractor and asking for a discount always gets you one! Ask for a 2004-2005 "Architectural Painting Systems Catalog", a fan deck of thier colors, and a "Pick of the pros" complete catalog. Sit down and talk to them about your venture and ask what other services they can offer to help you along. 

Also, go to this link http://www1.sherwin-williams.com/Contractors/default.asp and click on "architectural paints, stains, and primers" and it will bring up a searchable database of all thier products. Put in the names I told you and read up on them there. The paint systems catalog has some stuff, but the online catalog has everything...Each one gives you the full details about the paint, what's in it, what it can go on, what steps should be used for it, etc. It gives description, characteristics, application, specifications, and performance specs all the way down to dry times, flash point, and coat thickness in mils for wet and dry.

For the baseboards, try to keep a good wet edge going all the way down long runs, and always smooth from dry area to wet area. I usually cut the top in to the wall, cut the shoe mold to the floor, then slap on the middle...once paint is on, I tip it out smoothly with the entire width of my 3" brush. I assume you're getting stop and start marks from the brush...Very light pressure is the key when smoothing and tipping it out. When blending start and stop marks try lightly pulling away from the surface until you lose contact, leaving a smooth end....Use a good purdy brush/naps for walls. I don't recommend always using a 3/4" nap because with some surfaces and paints the results can be lack-luster. Also, some paints are designed to be put on as heavy as a 3/4" nap will. (see specs I talked about) 

Also...(whew! ok, breathe) donb is right about priming. The proper method is to prime then caulk and putty, not only to reduce shrinkage and cracking, but to ensure good adhesion for each of these steps/products. I never could understand caulking on the raw wood, then priming over the caulk. Prime, caulk/putty (ALLOW TIME TO DRY cuz I'm sick of ********************ty looking trim with spider webbed caulk everywhere) then begin painting. :Thumbs:


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## meiers (Jun 17, 2005)

Hey who makes the MAB paints?


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

meiers said:


> Hey who makes the MAB paints?


Pretty sure MAB makes their own paint.


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## ppmc (Jul 7, 2005)

Phouvieng said:


> Hello all! I dont know how odd it would be to introduce myself, but I just thought it would be a good way to start things off. So with that said, my name is Phouvieng, I'm 19 years old and I'm from Rochester, NY. Anyways, I've been painting for about 4-5 years, started off an "under-study"; Job was going great for a couple years, but to make the story short, I eventually got screwed big time. So now I'm working as a "head painter" under a new contractor, I'm currently in the works of starting my own thing, and these are where my questions kick in..
> 
> My questions aren't anything too specific, I just wanted to see what some of you guys did differently and what some of you guys did the same. All the houses we do are rehabs, I pretty much dont touch anything until all the dywall/compounding is finished. This is my process..
> 
> ...


Backrolling/A good friend of mine does new construction ,he rolls EVERYTHING.Anyway I did one interior for him and told him i rolled and actually sprayed and backrolled(told him later)no difference.Be careful what u spray and decide to backroll,different textures need different applications of (backrolling)light texture should be rolled after spray coat is tacky but,a very heavy texture in my opinion should not,and try not to spray to far ahead so as to let your roller dry it will show. :Thumbs:


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