# Homeowner sued for $25 million for a short in an electrical junction boxn



## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/home...over-california-wildfire-003413095.html?nhp=1


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

What a load of crap. This [email protected]#%ing government is so out of control. Yeah, they determined a plastic cover was warped. OK. And HTF do you spend $15M fighting that fire? Government waste as usual. Perhaps the forestry service started the blaze with "controled fires." $25 million? Really? Bankruptcy anyone?


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Couldn't have been a cigarette butt?

Where's the proof?


----------



## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

How do you assess the initial integrity of a plastic box after the house it's attached to has burned to the ground?


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Agility said:


> How do you assess the initial integrity of a plastic box after the house it's attached to has burned to the ground?


Some one would have had to see it before the fire. Maybe one of the grounds keepers. I'm guessing they established the location as the origin, then interviewed people.


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Couldn't have been a cigarette butt?
> 
> Where's the proof?


The only proof they need is the guys middle eastern name apparently...


----------



## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

hdavis said:


> Some one would have had to see it before the fire. Maybe one of the grounds keepers. I'm guessing they established the location as the origin, then interviewed people.



Duh, I guess that would have to be true.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I got a dollar that says that, should the poor slob be forced to pony up, NONE of the fire victims see one damned penny of it.

It's just a money-grab, funded at taxpayer expense. I sure wish I could file frivolous lawsuits, win or lost, that everyone else pays for.


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

What would cause a box to shoot sparks after it was fine for a while? Rodents or something? Just wondering.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Ya, I don't believe it for a second. A plastic box would be destroyed in that fire. You would never be able to determine that it was warped before the fire. You couldn't prove that the wires were sparking because the insulation would have been burned off. If there was an arc controlled breaker in there it would have shut the power down immediately and a normal breaker would have likely shut it down anyway.

There would be no proof that it was the only cause that started the blaze. There would be no "hot spot" like you have with accelerant based fires like gasoline. Bring the govt to court and let them waste more money and then let the insurance company pay it off anyway.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Leo G said:


> ........ If there was an arc controlled breaker in there it would have shut the power down immediately ............


At least that's what the manufacturers want you to believe.


----------



## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

My theory on why this individual is being sued? I bet if you parsed the newly released 9-11 files you could find some connection to the named individuals. This is pay back.

I'm sure I'm right.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/politics/congress-releases-28-pages-saudis-9-11/


----------



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

climate scientist to forensic scientist..you guys never cease to amaze..


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Leo G said:


> There would be no "hot spot" like you have with accelerant based fires like gasoline.


The origin of the fire can be determined even if it's electrical and there are no accelerants. It's pretty distinctive.


----------



## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Doesn't seem like we have nearly enough facts to form an opinion. What if this was a known problem that came up in inspections and was ignored? Was brought up by the insurance company and ignored again? Is there any situation in which the lawsuit might not seem crazy to you guys?


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> The origin of the fire can be determined even if it's electrical and there are no accelerants. It's pretty distinctive.


Well dude, the crack head that set fire to the apartment she was squatting in, that also burned down our store - the State and local fire investigators said they could not determine the source of ignition.

Sometimes they can, sometimes - no.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Well dude, the crack head that set fire to the apartment she was squatting in, that also burned down our store - the State and local fire investigators said they could not determine the source of ignition.
> 
> Sometimes they can, sometimes - no.


And when they can't, they just blame the electrician.


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

480sparky said:


> And when they can't, they just blame the electrician.


When everyone knows it's the drywallers that cut into all the romex with their rotozips!


----------



## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

m1911 said:


> What a load of crap. This [email protected]#%ing government is so out of control. Yeah, they determined a plastic cover was warped. OK. And HTF do you spend $15M fighting that fire? Government waste as usual. Perhaps the forestry service started the blaze with "controled fires." $25 million? Really? Bankruptcy anyone?


"The fire burned for more than two weeks in and around San Bernardino National Forest. More than 3,000 firefighters, 250 fire engines and 30 aircraft fought the blaze." 

Do you know how expensive aircraft are to operate? Plus the expense of the fire retardant that was used....3000 people and 250 engines...that a serious amount of equipment and personnel 



aptpupil said:


> Doesn't seem like we have nearly enough facts to form an opinion. What if this was a known problem that came up in inspections and was ignored? Was brought up by the insurance company and ignored again? Is there any situation in which the lawsuit might not seem crazy to you guys?


I agree that they must have some sort of creditable evidence of negligence and the owners ignored the problem or something..


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

m1911 said:


> When everyone knows it's the drywallers that cut into all the romex with their rotozips!


It's more like there's a list of check boxes on the fire marshal's report paperwork.

Lightning? No.
Arson? No.
Gas leak? No.
Smoking in bed? No.
Child playing with matches? No.
Burning candle left unattended? Nope.
Lint-clogged dryer vent? No.
Cooking mishap? Nyet.
Plugged-in iron left on? Nope.
Electrical? Don't look like it.
Unknown? Well, dammit, I don't want it to look like I can't figure these things out, so I'll be lazy and move my hand up _one line_ and say it's electrical.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Yeah theres no proof on this forum it was negligent. So until then it was an accident and they are innocent of negligence. 

Also that could easily happen to anyone. I think all a jury would need is one expert witness to counter the Governement and the gov loses. Those jury members are more than likely going lean to the side of the family the gov is trying to ruin.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

480sparky said:


> And when they can't, they just blame the electrician.


A barn burned down up here, the state fire marshal's office determined it was electrical in origin. Funny how that can happen with no power to the barn....


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

hdavis said:


> A barn burned down up here, the state fire marshal's office determined it was electrical in origin. Funny how that can happen with no power to the barn....


Happened here too. Evening news was interviewing a local fire captain while an abandoned farm house _was still burning_. He said he had no idea how the fire started since the power had been disconnected years ago............ this in a live feed while the flames were still shooting out of the roof.


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Note to self: obtain fire resistant UL stickers...affix to all junction boxes


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> Note to self: obtain fire resistant UL stickers...affix to all junction boxes


Nice idea, but it won't work. You need a UL listing number to pull it off. And that number will not match the product you'll be sticking it to.


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Nice idea, but it won't work. You need a UL listing number to pull it off. And that number will not match the product you'll be sticking it to.


That box would have had to have some serious current going through it to "throw sparks" and as has been suggested it should have triggered the breaker....unless it was Federal P or Sylvania


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

hdavis said:


> A barn burned down up here, the state fire marshal's office determined it was electrical in origin. Funny how that can happen with no power to the barn....


Lightening. 

Yeah that happened around here with a tire shop that went out of business. Old man that owned it died in a motorcycle accident. Kids took over slowly but surely inventory dwindled...then one day lights out...lights out for months. Vapor light everything....No service if you don't pay the bill.....One night burned to the ground....Cause of fire? Electrical of course


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> That box would have had to have some serious current going through it to "throw sparks" and as has been suggested it should have triggered the breaker....unless it was Federal P or Sylvania


You don't need a short to create sparks. You only need current flow potential. I've seen sparks connecting up a 40w light bulb, and that's 1/3 amp.


----------



## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Well there goes the insurance rates again. Special endorsement for outdoor junction boxes


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Maybe ban electricity from homes...


----------



## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

I heard there were traces of thermite and that the beams obviously were cut with a torch. besides, jet fuel can't melt junction boxes anyways.


----------



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Ya, well start reading the 28 pages that were released. Looks like the Saudi's were involved. Which is part of the crazies conspiracy theories.


----------

