# Best way to cut a rake (shingles).



## TheLastDaze (Jan 19, 2010)

What is the method you use to cut a rake shingle, (at a gable/fascia)..??

lay over cut later, cut as you go, razor knife, shingle shear?? 

talk to me,

Rob


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## Roofer Dan (Dec 21, 2009)

depends if i'm hand nailing or running a gun. 

hand nailing, i cut as i go because my hatchet is already in my hand. if i'm using a gun, i'll let them hang over (less than a tab) and cut when i'm done shingling. 

the reason: speed, nothing more


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Cut as you go with a knife is usually quickest depending on the roof. The shingle shear works great if you have a laborer and it's cold.

We usually use the sheetrock knifes with the fixed blade. They work the best and last longest.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

old pair of snips


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## johnk (Apr 23, 2007)

A good old hook knife.I cut as I go


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

I'll run out a course of 5-6 steps,
Take a shingle for a straight edge,flip it over,topside out,
Line it up with soldier on top and last cut shingle on the bottom
run a hook blade down it,
take a piece of scrap shingle and rub off any burrs.:thumbup:


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I usually cut as I go with a hook knife. I have seen guys chalk lines and use a hook to cut. I tell them it's faster my way, they tell me it's faster to do them all at once. The end result is the same. A nice straight line with proper overhang.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> I usually cut as I go with a hook knife. I have seen guys chalk lines and use a hook to cut. I tell them it's faster my way, they tell me it's faster to do them all at once. The end result is the same. A nice straight line with proper overhang.


I like to cut 'em as I go as well. I usually hang on to the pieces for fill in or for starting the next stagger.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

seeyou said:


> I like to cut 'em as I go as well. I usually hang on to the pieces for fill in or for starting the next stagger.


Exactly it creates less waste. I find that typically those guys that cut it all at once are usually the guys a square short on every job. It's ez throwing partial shingles down as scrap when you are not paying for them, but that scrap is almsot always useful in your next courses. Thats why when ever I am told we are short on a job, when I am dropping off the extra materials I check the dumpster for scraps to see what size cut offs they are throwing away.


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

oldfrt said:


> I'll run out a course of 5-6 steps,
> Take a shingle for a straight edge,flip it over,topside out,
> Line it up with soldier on top and last cut shingle on the bottom
> run a hook blade down it,
> take a piece of scrap shingle and rub off any burrs.:thumbup:


same here, taught from the get go to do things as you go. hips, valleys, gables, clean up, etc.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> Exactly it creates less waste. I find that typically those guys that cut it all at once are usually the guys a square short on every job. It's ez throwing partial shingles down as scrap when you are not paying for them, but that scrap is almsot always useful in your next courses. Thats why when ever I am told we are short on a job, when I am dropping off the extra materials I check the dumpster for scraps to see what size cut offs they are throwing away.


I don't like packing shingles or cleaning the ground either. I'd rather use what I've already got on the roof.


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## RandyB1986 (Jan 2, 2009)

Guess I now know why I see so many roofs with crooked cuts up rakes  I thought that was just a Mexican thing.....:shutup:


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## gutterman412 (Jul 13, 2008)

*Say it isnt so...*



johnk said:


> A good old hook knife.I cut as I go



Ouch!:blink: I have ended up with quite a few hooks in my hand/ knee in my early days... now I prefer the snips.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

gutterman412 said:


> Ouch!:blink: I have ended up with quite a few hooks in my hand/ knee in my early days... now I prefer the snips.


My first job in this industry we used to use the snips, but after the first time I saw the hooks being used I never went back. Snips = one less tool I need in my pouch until it's time to do the flashings.


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## MrRoofer (Sep 21, 2008)

Always cut as I go with a hookblade (the ones with the thick ends) in a Richard knife, although I'm starting to like the big bulky knifes, they work good as a hammer in a pinch :laughing:.

An erroneous chalkline cut is hard to fix, and not neccesarily any quicker. The problem I have with leaving ends is it is a wind grab, plus you really are better off using those end cuts at the start of your next course. Also in the summertime, you need to cut the shingles right away, every millisecond in the sun makes them harder to cut well.

I usually use hook blades for rakes, except when installing extremely thick shingles on a cold day, then I will use scissor snips, or conversely, a very warm day when blades are more trouble than they are worth.

I have always shingled with gloves, no worries for slivers and cuts that way, rake cuts are the easiest way to lose all the skin on your knuckles.

I've never used a shear, and don't know anyone who has.

The key is to cut just inside of your starter shingle (1/16" - 1/8"). The starters make everything look wonderful from below. Overhanging arse cut rakes do not.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

MrRoofer said:


> I've never used a shear, and don't know anyone who has.


We've worn a couple of blades out on one. We had several cone turrets to shingle and I bought one for that to make angled cuts. We drag it out for Grand Manors and the like, especially in winter. Sometimes we use it to cut books to start off with as well. It's not indispensable, but once I got it, it gets used more than I would have guessed.


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## MrRoofer (Sep 21, 2008)

Fair enough. Every tool has it's use.

Honestly I don't get on the roof so much anymore, but if I was doing the kind of work as you described, I could see it's merit. Do you use it much for rakes?

Either the librarian is going to be pissed or I am unfamiliar with the terminology...what are books?


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

MrRoofer said:


> Do you use it much for rakes? ..what are books?


I don't know where the term came from, but we call the series of cut shingles to create the stagger when starting at the rake "a book". A book might consist of a full shingle, 31", 26", 21", 15", and 10" cut shingles. 

When we're using a guy throwing and a two guys nailing, we pre-cut the books with the shear if there's a lot of rake. 

I've used it to close rakes and it makes for a pretty edge, but it's too time consuming unless it's a really heavy shingle.

The shear is also pretty effective at cutting ridge caps from 3 tabs, which we seldom do anymore.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

MrRoofer said:


> An erroneous chalkline cut is hard to fix,


Amen. And the longer the rake is, the more likely it is to have some waviness to it. Cutting as you go allows you to go in and out with the rake.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

seeyou said:


> Amen. And the longer the rake is, the more likely it is to have some waviness to it. Cutting as you go allows you to go in and out with the rake.


Not if you use starters. :thumbsup:

I never use a hook up the rake. Always flip over and cut with a straight blade. Some say it's a waste of time. Those are the guys going back walking on hot shingles and cutting with a hook while I'm cleaning up the bags and heading home.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I use starters on my rakes too but one trick I learned from an old timer was to flip and cut like mjw said, then put the cut side to the roof and the factory side to the gable edge. To be honest since I don't shingle every day I just fall back on my old habit of cutting as I go. I have never had a complaint about wavy or crooked gables so I think I can cut it straight 'nuff. Plus the starter helps too.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

MJW said:


> Not if you use starters. :thumbsup:
> 
> I never use a hook up the rake. Always flip over and cut with a straight blade. Some say it's a waste of time. Those are the guys going back walking on hot shingles and cutting with a hook while I'm cleaning up the bags and heading home.


We always use starters on the rakes, but seldom snap a line for them. And I prefer to cut from the back with a straight blade as you do. But I don't shingle anymore, personally, and my company is doing less and less all the time since the framers we used come behind are putting the shingles on since they don't have another frame to go to.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> I have never had a complaint about wavy or crooked gables so I think I can cut it straight 'nuff. Plus the starter helps too.


We work on a lot of 18th and 19th century buildings. I've never seen one out very much, but a 1/2" out isn't visible from the ground unless you cut a perfectly straight line right beside it. Cutting as you lay allows you to remain uniform to the rake if it is out.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

seeyou said:


> We always use starters on the rakes, but seldom snap a line for them. And I prefer to cut from the back with a straight blade as you do. But I don't shingle anymore, personally, and my company is doing less and less all the time since the framers we used come behind are putting the shingles on since they don't have another frame to go to.


Time to lobby for roofing contractor licensing and/or get out of new construction.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> Time to lobby for roofing contractor licensing and/or get out of new construction.


We just let 'em have the shingles and raise our flashing prices. We seem to always find enough metal/slate/tile/cedar work.


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## 4 seasons (Jan 4, 2010)

I too run bleeders up vertically along the rakes, and the n cut the shingles on the baackside with a straight blade. I think it just looks a whole lot better than using a hook.


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## Burns-Built (May 8, 2009)

So it sounds like some guys will hang there shingles out say 1/2" and others just wack it off with the drip??

So if the rake is crooked say its crowned out 3/4 in 20' do you run with the rake or snap a line for your starters and run them nice and straight then just follow with your shingles. Personally i would run the starters up that rake to a line so that is straight then run my shingles with the starter.

I think you would see by sighting up the rake that it was crooked before you would see it from below.
Thats another ? do you run your drip with the rake or float it a little to make it straight as well?? 

Just curious....:whistling


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Burns-Built said:


> So if the rake is crooked say its crowned out 3/4 in 20' do you run with the rake or snap a line for your starters and run them nice and straight then just follow with your shingles.


I'm not familiar with the concept of starters on a rake, but it just makes sense to follow whatever rake is there. If you don't, that's going to be one ugly looking edge.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Burns-Built said:


> So it sounds like some guys will hang there shingles out say 1/2" and others just wack it off with the drip??
> 
> So if the rake is crooked say its crowned out 3/4 in 20' do you run with the rake or snap a line for your starters and run them nice and straight then just follow with your shingles. Personally i would run the starters up that rake to a line so that is straight then run my shingles with the starter.
> 
> ...


Run the drip with the rake and and the starter with the drip ( I like a 1" overhang and I don't work in FL) and the shingles with the starter. Each straightens it out a little, so as not to be so noticeable. If any of the reveals vary, then it becomes more noticeable from the ground to me.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

If the rake is crooked I usually use steel drip edge and float it a little to take some of it out. If the rake is straight I use aluminum. Then I snap a line for my starters up the rake. Not being in Florida I leave a 1/2" over the drip edge. I have seen quite a few roofs where the shingle was originally installed flush with the drip edge and is no longer flush and sits back on the drip edge 1/8 to 1/4" because the shingle shrunk over time.

As for cutting, depends on which edge and rather I have to cut up hill or down the hill to keep it flush with the starter. If I have an extra body that doesn't lay very fast I use them a tape measure and the shingle shear to finish off the rakes.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Anyone ever seen a roof when the shingles aren't hanging over at least 3/8"? I have and it looks terrible in a few years and causes leaks. The shingles shrink and leave the edging exposed.

I'm not disputing the reasoning in Florida and the hurricane stuff. I'm sure the roofing cement helps, along with the extra nails. As far as here. I haven't seen a problem as long as they aren't hung over too far, because then they just curl over and look terrible also. The MSA book says 1/2" overhang with a drip edge.


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Anyone ever use one of these?...


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

JonM said:


> Anyone ever use one of these?...



:clap::clap:ILOVETHISSITE.COM:clap::clap:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Yeah that would work for the weekend warrior doing a side job roof or maybe even a homeowner. I bet you'd get laughed off the site for something like that.........


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I can't imagine that saw having enough torque to cut through more than a couple shingles before the air runs out. I have often thought of maybe trying a corded circ saw for cutting the rakes, but so far I never have. We use our circ saw with a junky blade to cut through shingles and the sheathing when we demo, so I would think it would do ok. Not sure how nice the edge would look though. Maybe I will try it on the next roof.
At one time we got a hold of a small pneumatic recip saw and thought it might work for small sheathing trims on the roof during framing. We were able to modify a sawzall blade to fit the saw. You had to baby that thing so much that it was ridiculous. We nicknamed it the "saws none"


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## MrRoofer (Sep 21, 2008)

What kind of saw blade is that? I don't see any teeth whatsoever...

I have used beat up old skillsaw blades to cut heavy shingles in a valley before...set the blade depth just right and run some thin plywood under the shingles to be safe and voila...gums up pretty quick tho. Cutting rakes I might be less inclined to because it would seem easier to butcher the starter under, with no way to slide some safety plywood in there.

I presume not everyone here runs starters on their rakes? I figure that makes for some limp looking shingles after a time, therefore I always do.


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## jeffatsquan (Mar 16, 2009)

This has been going longer than I thought it would so I guess I'll chime in

On a straightforward roof I'll use my shingle shear ,start with soldiers or starter strip because its all about the tar dots. And you want tar dots at all edges, up both rakes and as a starter course the rake ones extend to the eve this off sets your brake on your first course I hang the rake soldier 1/2" beyond the rake edge weather it be drip edge or just the shadow board ( lately I've bent my own rake edges out of coil stock) and will use this to take up any differences or bows.

Next take a bundle of shingles and cut 10" off the first 20"off the second and 30"off the third and a full shingle this is your first "book" do as many books as you need to get to the ridge.

I start by putting on 8 course this is usually a bracket course I take these across the roof to where you need to start cutting for the opposite rake having already applied the soldier on this rake its a simple measure with tape and yell number to the cut man on the shear. 

I keep him with in arms reach he is cutting them out of the scrap from the starter books I can usually give two measurements and while he is cutting those I am filling in with full shingles this goes very quick and I never set my gun down.

When the cut man is not on the shear he is humping shingles or planks getting brackets ready then it is back to the starting rake and 8 more courses, brackets, and so on and so on


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Here is another one...http://www.shingleking.com/ordering.php


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## Roofer37 (Jan 21, 2010)

I also cut as i go to use as much as i can before tossing pieces. I often hook blade or siding snips are an easy cut.


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## Fauker_9 (May 11, 2006)

oldfrt said:


> I'll run out a course of 5-6 steps,
> Take a shingle for a straight edge,flip it over,topside out,
> Line it up with soldier on top and last cut shingle on the bottom
> run a hook blade down it,
> take a piece of scrap shingle and rub off any burrs.:thumbup:


This is exactly what we do, and I think it gives the best results....still can't believe some people's replies


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