# Estimate turned down.



## Tylerwalker32 (Jun 27, 2011)

I was bidding on a job to replace some rotted trim on the roofline of a home. I sent thee homeowner my estimate, it was turned down because it was to high. I'm not real sure if I'm doing my estimated correctly. Are there any tips, pointers that I could be given about putting together my estimates.


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## Tylerwalker32 (Jun 27, 2011)

By the way I just realized I misspelled estimate. Whoops


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## WildWill (Jun 6, 2008)

It's really not whether it's "too High" or not, it's a matter of whether or not you have work. The thing is, the guy who won the bid may have been bidding too low. So you have work? have you been finding that you are constantly being under bid? You may just need to throw more bids out there, more mud on the wall so to speak. Or you could be bidding too high.

How long is the job going to take, how much you want to be paid for the work, overhead and profit. The part after that is the real trick, lots of mud on the wall. It's a tough market.

Just my .02, take it for what it's worth.....not much.


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## Beanfacekilla (May 19, 2011)

Tylerwalker32 said:


> I was bidding on a job to replace some rotted trim on the roofline of a home. I sent thee homeowner my estimate, *it was turned down because it was to high*. I'm not real sure if I'm doing my estimated correctly. Are there any tips, pointers that I could be given about putting together my estimates.


How did you find out it was too high? Did they actually tell you?

When I do a bid, I just get ignored by the people who don't like my price. I will email them the bid, and they won't even thank me. No response, ever again.

I think when a contractor comes to a HO's house, and estimates a job, the least they could do is thank him/her when the bid is received. Of course not. 

I would consider yourself lucky that they even told you the price was too high. 

What they probably didn't tell you was:

The person who got the job, probably doesn't have a license, insurance, and more importantly, possibly underbid the job. And the HO may, or may not be satisfied with the end product. 

I don't know what to tell you. You have to charge what you need to.

I would give them the cheapest price you can afford to take, as long as it provides money to cover Labor, Materials, overhead, and profit.

Peace.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

If you are landing about 40% of your bids then dont sweat it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

40% is pretty good.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

Just because your estimate was "too high", doesn't mean you didn't price it correctly. I'm very thorough when bidding projects. And because I'm thorough, I see a lot of stuff other contractors miss. That means my price ends up being higher just because the scope of work is different.

Also, I've been told my price was too high, but come to find out the guy that did the job was a guy and his truck, no license, insurance, warranty, etc. That isn't an apples to apples comparison between companies. 

If you have questions on your bid, post up some pictures of the project and we can help you figure out timeframes to perform certain work. But the hourly rates and markups are all up to you and are based on your overhead numbers.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I have never turned in a job estimate that was too high. Maybe their perception was that, but I know what my costs are.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Just remember that you're proposal(I don't use bid anymore, someone on here converted me) should have been just right for YOU, it may have been too high for THEM but that shouldn't effect the price. Even if I'm really low on work I will almost never intentionally lowball a project because I've learned that I still do the work right. I know I need to do a crappy job to make a profit but I just can't so I end up making a crappy wage. I'd rather work 30% less than make 30% less.

Unlike some of the other guys in this post I close about 80% of my proposals but that is because I'm a solo operation and work mostly through word-of-mouth. If I closed less than that I'd be in deep crap. If you do high quality work make sure that your proposal and presentation is also high quality otherwise customers won't understand the reason for the pricing difference. My proposals for $10k bath remodels usually run at least 2 pages and involve specific materials and techniques.

I also follow up weekly with every proposal I deliver. Not knowing what happened just doesn't cut it with me.


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## Beanfacekilla (May 19, 2011)

EthanB said:


> Just remember that you're proposal(I don't use bid anymore, someone on here converted me) should have been just right for YOU, it may have been too high for THEM but that shouldn't effect the price. Even if I'm really low on work I will almost never intentionally lowball a project because I've learned that I still do the work right. I know I need to do a crappy job to make a profit but I just can't so I end up making a crappy wage. I'd rather work 30% less than make 30% less.
> 
> Unlike some of the other guys in this post I close about 80% of my proposals but that is because I'm a solo operation and work mostly through word-of-mouth. If I closed less than that I'd be in deep crap. If you do high quality work make sure that your proposal and presentation is also high quality otherwise customers won't understand the reason for the pricing difference. My proposals for $10k bath remodels usually run at least 2 pages and involve specific materials and techniques.
> 
> *I also follow up weekly with every proposal I deliver. Not knowing what happened just doesn't cut it with me*.


I do this as well, however, I find people just avoid you if they are tire kickers or my price doesn't suit them.


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## ESSaustin (Mar 27, 2010)

Tylerwalker32 said:


> Are there any tips, pointers that I could be given about putting together my estimates.


I guess I read into your question differently than the others who responded. Did you mean how to estimate a job, or how to write up an estimate (in order for the HO to understand your included scope)?

If it _is_ the former, like others said, you should be re-evaluating your estimating if you land every project you bid!


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Beanfacekilla said:


> I do this as well, however, I find people just avoid you if they are tire kickers or my price doesn't suit them.


I totally understand what you're talking about Bean. I've done higher volume sales in other businesses. At the moment I'm probably only bidding on a 4-6 remodels a month maximum and there's usually some connection between to customer and myself so avoidance isn't an option for them. It all depends on the OP's business model.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

What i said earlier is inaccurate, I am realizing. I only close 10 to 20% of the leads I get from marketing/advertising/networking, and those are just the leads I actually turn a proposal in for. Many are tire kickers and don't pass qualifying.

We actually close 60 to 80% of our referrals, probably. Referrals are the only reason im in business in the model we are in.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

jawtrs said:


> What i said earlier is inaccurate, I am realizing. I only close 10 to 20% of the leads I get from marketing/advertising/networking, and those are just the leads I actually turn a proposal in for. Many are tire kickers and don't pass qualifying.
> 
> We actually close 60 to 80% of our referrals, probably. Referrals are the only reason im in business in the model we are in.


That's right about where we're at also


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Labor + Materials + Subs + Profit + Overhead + PITA Factor= Cost

All are adjustable depending on the bidding climate & how hungry you are.

If your clientele perceives your bid as too high...

You need to do more to sell yourself.

And include a *DETAILED* SOW. or...

You need a different clientele.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

I may be reading more into this than is there but it seems like you are new to this game and this may be the first time you were not awarded a job you were asked to price.

You may consider only submitting your bids in person for a while. That way you can respond to any questions or concerns on the spot. You can also tell from the questions what parts of your estimates are unclear or need to be expanded on.

If this is the first or one of the first bids you lost out on, well you will need to thicken your skin.


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## Tylerwalker32 (Jun 27, 2011)

Gus Dering said:


> I may be reading more into this than is there but it seems like you are new to this game and this may be the first time you were not awarded a job you were asked to price.
> 
> You may consider only submitting your bids in person for a while. That way you can respond to any questions or concerns on the spot. You can also tell from the questions what parts of your estimates are unclear or need to be expanded on.
> 
> If this is the first or one of the first bids you lost out on, well you will need to thicken your skin.


Well you read Into it correctly. I'm a really just starting out. It's not the first time that I have been turned down. I was beginning to think it would be ether to for me to present them in person. Thank you all for the tips. I'm really just trying to learn the best ways to do my estimates. Having never had someone personally show me how to do them you all are some big help.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

There's some good info here for you. You can learn a lot on CT.

Not sure if you were using a phone to submit your responses or not, but there were a lot of spelling errors. (My Android phone messes me up with its auto correct sometimes.) If that's not the case, really watching your spelling & grammar in anything you write will make a better impression on your customers too. Sometimes that influences the way people respond.

Another thing that I'm seeing a lot of in my area is that guys frequently low-ball their initial quotes to get the job, but add big time by the time the customer gets their final bill.

I personally don't play that way & think its unethical unless it's spelled out in the contract beforehand. The only time I use that is when there is NO way to accurately estimate before starting a job because of unforseen's.


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## Splinter hands (Aug 31, 2011)

One thing to think about is that some guys will make up a proposal that includes bottom of the barrel, cheapest materials possible for the proposal and then use change orders later to upgrade to what the H.O. thought they were getting in the first place. In the end the lowballers final bill ends up higher than your original proposal just due to the change orders.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Splinter hands said:


> One thing to think about is that some guys will make up a proposal that includes bottom of the barrel, cheapest materials possible for the proposal and then use change orders later to upgrade to what the H.O. thought they were getting in the first place. In the end the lowballers final bill ends up higher than your original proposal just due to the change orders.


 You speak the truth


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

I wouldnt worry about it. You know your costs not the winners costs. I have been in supply houses were you will hear one contractor say he underbids so and so just to get the work. Then you can be in there the next week and hear the same contractor all pissed off he didnt make any money. 

I never lost any money on a job i didnt take. I try to follow all of my estimats up with an email or call, but most of the time they ignore you. I have one reality that will ask for an estimate...
1. Go and look at it
2. Email scope and bid
3.Get ignored
4. 2 weeks later say they never got the bid
5.resend
6.Get ignored
7.two weeks later they want a lower price
This can go on forever if u let it. I just put one in and ignore the rest of the bs.


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

I lost my 1st job because my price was to high several months back (my short lived first cabinet making thread) and it was long over due.

Since then I have lost a couple more most likely for price as well.

I will simply say you *should* be losing jobs on price; as I learned here if you're not then you are losing profit on jobs, and oddly enough that is what will most likely ruin you.

Posting a price that I thought was fair to me, as well as the client, but that I thought would lose the job was tough but really necessary if I actually want to be successful at this.


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