# Tables From Large Pine Cross Sections



## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Client I did an addition for wants me to build him (3) tables (2 coffee, 1 bar) out of sections of the Rockerfeller Center christmas tree that came from his FIL's property.

He was told to have a hole drilled in the center and coat them with latex paint. Then, leave them in a garage standing on edge for 2 years.

Now.....I have them.

I have never made anything out of slabs like this before (which I told him) and am trying to figure out the best way to do it.

Each has opened up one large crack towards the center. I will be inputting a piece of walnut and bowtie-ing it. Also, making the simple, splayed leg bases out of walnut.

My big question as I begin is.....
They have warped (pringled) quite a bit. I am trying to get the tops flat and of equal thickness and having a hard time keeping them flat enough to get started.

I made a temp frame out of 2x material, and once I released the pipe clamps.......it simply bent almost all the way back.

They average about 3"+ thick and roughly 3'-6"+ in diameter. I am assuming I will either have to use a 3x6 frame, or thin them down to a manageable 2" or less.

Any ideas.....experience with these kind of slabs?


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Keep 'em sharp!


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Robie said:


> Keep 'em sharp!


That.........
ain't phuckin' happenin'.  :no: :laughing:


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> That.........
> ain't phuckin' happenin'.  :no: :laughing:


Wimp.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)




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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Now that......
is super slick!

I have run through all the usual suspects, and landed on power planer as the rough out tool of choice.

Stabila to attain flatness......Hudson on standby with the "you are a world-class dipchit" look.

Figure I will get em real close, build and attach the bases......then do the flatness thing all over again????????? and get ready to trim a leg here and there????????????


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Some obvious points - these are going to be a good bit thinner than 3" once you get them flat.

Personally, I use plywood on the backside to attache the legs - it's too east to split the top, IMO. The top is held to the ply with a few bolts, with enough play in the holes in the ply to allow for some movement.

Just a quick note about using a power planer for something this big - I've always wound up with ridges at the edge of planing passes. These can be more work to get out than you'd imagine.

Clamping it flat won't do anything for you. Sealing it whenever you aren't working on it is pretty helpful - I just use spray shellac, but it trashes some sand paper when you start again. One coat on the back that stays in place throughout the process, and a coat on the front if it's going to sit. If I was smart, I'd probably just wrap it in plastic instead....

When you put a finish on this, put the same finish on top and bottom.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I re-read this. 

No, you only do the flatness thing once, especially since sanding end grain sux.

Make it 3 legged, so you don't have to trim them:laughing:


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

I actually got the first one really flat with the planer, by running in four directions and dropping my depth of cut as I went. Using the laser to double check helped early on.

I got some beasting planer gouge ridges in the beginning, but as I worked through it, the started to disappear until they were easily 80grit belt sandable.....then Rotex in rotary.

I came up with a new plan for the bases, but I'm concerned it may not be prudent.

Instead of oversizing the lumber for the apron of the walnut base, I decided to make a rectangle with 4x4's and an x in the center. Here comes the problem..... Do you think I can Timberlok that to the bottom to keep it rigid and flat, or do I have to attach brackets to it *so the top can move*. I have some great, stout L's for attaching table tops, but I'd rather send it deep with lags.....they aren't that stout.

Then i will just wrap the "real" walnut apron around the stronger hidden "frame". Saves on walnut.....


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

The top has to move. Instead of screwing Timberloks in, consider recessing for some hex bolts and epoxying the heads into the recesses.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> The top has to move. Instead of screwing Timberloks in, consider recessing for some hex bolts and epoxying the heads into the recesses.


I don't follow.

Recess hex bolts? Epoxy?

As always, thanks for the advice.:thumbsup:


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> The top has to move. Instead of screwing Timberloks in, consider recessing for some hex bolts and epoxying the heads into the recesses.


As I was working on it, I figured out what you mean.

Rout recesses into the underside of the top, aligned with slots in the frame.
Drop the frame on.....apply washers....nuts.

Can't I just slot the frame.....blast some T-loks into the top?
You're concerned that the top won't like being penetrated so rudely by a big screw? That it'll open up at those points down the road?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

You'll need to attach the top to the base. The attachments need to be able to let the top expand and contract without sticking at some point. If you put a screw into the top, that's a stress point, and screwing it in is going to stress it from the get go.

The table has to survive being moved around, bumped into, the normal stuff. The top is a slice of pine, so it is a softwood that splits pretty easily with this orientation. If you make the walnut trim / base so that it's naturally moved / carried by the walnut, then that prevents normal handling causing splits. The rest of any jarring, etc still has to be taken up by the slice of pine.

If it weren't relatively fragile, you could use a traditional furniture attachment method. I forget what they're called, but basically, it's a special screw that has wood screw threads on one end and machine screw threads on the other end. It would get screwed into the top, and the machine screw part would go down through a slot in the base and have a washer and nut - the nut isn't tightened all the way.

My concern with doing that in this case is screwing it into the wood creates stress, and any bumping / use stresses are concentrated on the relatively small threaded part. I think there are a few ways of getting around this. 

One would be to inset a small piece of plywood at the attachment sites and use the traditional screws. Another may be to just predrill the holes for the screws a little large, and epoxy the screws in. The epoxy in the larger hole gives a larger bearing on the wood, so it would spread out any stresses more, and the predrill would keep the screw from stressing it by screwing it in. 

Recessing the hex bolt head into the wood and epoxying it in place just seemed a convenient way to go. The nut gets almost tightened, just like the previous hardware.

You may want to grab a slice of the same species and at least get a decent idea of how easily it splits, even if all you can get is a much smaller green slice.....


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Can't I just slot the frame.....blast some T-loks into the top?
> You're concerned that the top won't like being penetrated so rudely by a big screw? That it'll open up at those points down the road?


I see we cross posted:laughing:

Yes, if putting them in starts a split on the backside, they'll continue to split from the get go, and if an over stress starts a split, it'll keep going.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> I see we cross posted:laughing:
> 
> Yes, if putting them in starts a split on the backside, they'll continue to split from the get go, and if an over stress starts a split, it'll keep going.



Why do I say yes to these phucking things.....constantly?

First top was large enough, and thin enough that I couldn't flatten it as it sat......so I will need some "hold" to my fastening system. 
Second one is much better, and I am flattening it under no stress or fastening to a base. (but I assume it will potato chip any minute now anyway).

Shellac-ing as I go......thanks:thumbsup:

I like the idea of the plywood inlay. My only issue is fastening that to the top. I have zero faith that epoxy on endgrain will hold very well. Maybe epoxy plus pocket screws????? The angle may help???

Another issue is the rectangular base can't get out far enough to get purchase on the furthest ends that want to curl. 

Also....starting to wonder what inputting the walnut to fill the large single drying crack is going to do. Do you think it will just seek another place to open up? I am hoping it has gotten it's fill over the past two years. The walnut, on edge. should help stiffen the table.(?)

I keep getting this feeling that I will be revisiting these things for the next 10 years. 
I have had long discussions with the client about all these things. Basically threw in a ton of disclaimers...."I can't promise that it won't _________ or _________." He seems totally cool, but I want them to be right.

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I'm considering going to the vodka any minute now.:laughing:

BTW...not getting any splitting. Just not getting enough grip to pull that thin Pringle biaatch into line. Lemme post a pic of what I have so far. Just don't laugh too hard.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

People have been making these for centuries. What's the problem here?:laughing:


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

The first one.....the problem child.

Can't abandon her, as much as I'd like to. 

T-Lok's just temporary. Replacing with bolts.....ply inset.

I realize the 4x4's are a bit much, but I HAVE to bend this one like Beckham. As you can see (2nd pic), the TLok spun/stripped out, and I couldn't get it back to flat/tight.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

You're hosed on your pringle piece. You just have to do the best you can. Normally these would be cut extra thick, air dried (as was done). Then you flatten the back first, but you don't clamp it flat - it'll just spring back. Flip it over and do the front, again, not clamped flat.

One thing that may be helpful to you is stabilizing the wood. It's done with things like burl bowls and such, but it's not my thing, so research away. My recollection is it's things like ethylene glycol or glycerine. It MAY be possible to not allow for much movement if it's stabilized - pure speculation on my part.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Now this one (2nd) had enough meat to work with.

Enough for me to break out the chainsaw to do the initial rough. Worked out surprisingly well. Saved a chitload of planing.

This one was done at full rest......both sides.

Much more promising.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Shellac on both sides......both slabs.

cuz I've had enough, I'm going to the beach.:clap:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Actually, it looks from the picture that you have enough material to get it flat (un-clamped)

Gotta run:sad:


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> You're hosed on your pringle piece. You just have to do the best you can. Normally these would be cut extra thick, air dried (as was done). Then you flatten the back first, but you don't clamp it flat - it'll just spring back. Flip it over and do the front, again, not clamped flat.
> 
> One thing that may be helpful to you is stabilizing the wood. It's done with things like burl bowls and such, but it's not my thing, so research away. My recollection is it's things like ethylene glycol or glycerine. It MAY be possible to not allow for much movement if it's stabilized - pure speculation on my part.


That all became so obvious as I worked on the second one.

So much better results....stability wise.

We'll see what it looks like when I get back from the Outer Banks.

I found some solutions that you can soak the slabs in to stabilize them. Has to be full immersion, and for a bit of time. Very spendy in that quantity......just gonna have to work it out. That one will go to my client. The other two are gifts from him to important folks (to him).

Cheers H!


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Robie said:


> People have been making these for centuries. What's the problem here?:laughing:


Here?

You......are the problem. (Insert laughing face.....IPad vacation-mode)

Come down and build em for me tough guy. I'll even pay you $7 an hour and provide all the Ramen you can eat (dogs welcome, mutts preferred).
I would be running that Router Sled......but I got no one to man the other side.
Bring Ken with you........he can do the dishes and water the flowers.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Done.

Picked up at 5 tonight ......by the clients.:clap:
Glad to get rid of em. They were taking up valuable shop space.

4 coats of Spar Varnish with a final coat of Spar Urethane on the tops.

2 coats of Spar Varnish on the bases.

Floating Lags and L-brackets to attach.

The slabs have been super stable for the past month or so. Zero cupping.....zero shrinking/expanding......well, none discernible. Stayed nice and flat all the way through it.

Thanks everyone....
Special :thumbsup: to Mr. Davis.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Pretty freaking nice.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Sweet!


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

Those look very nice.I was a lillte late to the thread but hope you finished the bottom of the slabs the same as the top.Could have given you some pointers on attaching the tops to the apron without any metal involved and allowing movement.
Still fine looking tables.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

mako1 said:


> Those look very nice.I was a lillte late to the thread but hope you finished the bottom of the slabs the same as the top.Could have given you some pointers on attaching the tops to the apron without any metal involved and allowing movement.
> Still fine looking tables.



Thanks Mako. And.......

Uhhhhh......yea....well...

to be honest, I screwed up a bit.

I was originally told exterior for all 3 (now all interior) and wanted a durable finish that would seal well.....so I decided on Spar Varnish.

I shellacked with Zinnser through the process (as the right honorable HDude advised) and went and bought some Cabot Satin Spar Varnish.

To my great chagrin....they exclude shellac as a suitable undercoat.
As I had already removed all the shellac from the tops.....of the tops, and the bases were bare wood....I was cool. But there was no way I was going to get the 7 coats of shellac off those barely sanded undersides without $350 worth of abrasives and 2 years off of my life (favor for a client.....not so much scratch in it). 


So......I caved.....put another 4 coats of shellac on the undersides and what turned out to be 5 really good coats (4 varnish, 1 urethane) on the topside.

Give it to me straight......am I phucked?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> To my great chagrin....they exclude shellac as a suitable undercoat.
> As I had already removed all the shellac from the tops.....of the tops, and the bases were bare wood....I was cool. But there was no way I was going to get the 7 coats of shellac off those barely sanded undersides without $350 worth of abrasives and 2 years off of my life (favor for a client.....not so much scratch in it).
> 
> 
> ...


Should be OK. 

I'll have to check out Cabot spar varnish to see what's magical about it...


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Should be OK.
> 
> I'll have to check out Cabot spar varnish to see what's magical about it...


Definitely....

I called them. Their tech line is usually really helpful. They said "adhesion" issues.

I read a bunch of stuff about waxed vs. de-waxed......traditional (waxed) shellac bad....de-waxed good.....:blink:

Thanks again man.....very grateful.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

And the client was pretty happy?


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> And the client was pretty happy?


Ecstatic.

They brought a cooler of Long Trail (Vermont based hoppy goodness), and added an extra tree fiddy to my requested payment.:thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Ecstatic.
> 
> They brought a cooler of Long Trail (Vermont based hoppy goodness), and added an extra tree fiddy to my requested payment.:thumbsup:


Good luck with the Long Trail:whistling


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Good luck with the Long Trail:whistling


What's luck got to do wit it?

Drink.....recycle.....repeat.

Seems pretty straightforward........:jester:


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## owattabuilder (Sep 2, 2013)

Looking good. That will be a nice look.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Those are sharp!


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Awesome job,...looks terrific :thumbsup:


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I don't like them.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Robie said:


> I don't like them.


Don't buy them:whistling


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Robie said:


> I don't like them.


Well.....

okay....

would you like to talk about this? 
Do you need a little nap?

(not really my thing either, to be honest......but the check cleared, and gosh darnit...I'm proud of my interpretation of "slab chic" (middle finger emoticon....please):jester


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Well.....
> 
> okay....
> 
> ...


Nah, I'm good.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Check cleared, siege engines are a go, he has free beer - BRG should be the one up for a nap...


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Actually, I was messing around. I think the tables are lovely.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Check cleared, siege engines are a go, he has free beer - BRG should be the one up for a nap...


I wish.

"Playtime" is over.

Now the real (less fulfilling) work begins.

Cleaning, acquiring of foodstuffs, table and chair borrowing, tent erecting and LOTS of water balloon tying,........the final push is on!

You know the shelf life (shaded and stacked in covered plastic bins) of a fully operational water balloon?

Of course you do. I await the data and equations.

(Someone today said fill the bin with water.....sounds like genius.)


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> You know the shelf life (shaded and stacked in covered plastic bins) of a fully operational water balloon?
> 
> Of course you do. I await the data and equations.
> 
> (Someone today said fill the bin with water.....sounds like genius.)


Try one and see - biodegradeable doesn't seem like a filled shelf life extender:blink:

Putting water in keeps the ones on the bottom from getting mashed real bad (they can pop from this).


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Putting water in keeps the ones on the bottom from getting mashed real bad (they can pop from this).


:thumbsup:
Displacement.....Archiimedes' principle.....could keep me under the biodegradable-rubber burst threshold.:jester:


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