# A little CT Competition!?



## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

build big birdhouses :laughing:


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Is there a prize for the most bird houses in a day?:whistling


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Gus Dering said:


> Is there a prize for the most bird houses in a day?:whistling



Sure, but they need to be made from tile :laughing:


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

does size matter?
my wife tells me it doesn't. :whistling

Hope i get some more birds around here. 
I think the kid next door shoots 'em all with his bb gun.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Gus Dering said:


> Is there a prize for the most bird houses in a day?:whistling


This makes me think of an argument that CONSTANTLY pervades my Night time/Full time Business endeavors.

Vinyl Purists state that if you CAN NOT spin Vinyl without a Computer based Management System, you ARE NOT a DJ.

Serato and Torq users, the Computer assisted DJ's, argue that "MIDI-Fighters" (fully computerized DJ's without turntables) have an unfair advantage.

I claim that they are all on a level playing field. Because none of them can do what the other is doing.

Just different ways of getting the same job done.


Having a CNC IS an unfair advantage IF one does NOT consider the initial costs and time spent LEARNING how to use the machine!!

It ALL washes out in the long run!


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

can a birdhouse have copper yankee gutters?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*well, WNY?*

Now you did it!- Think that project in Jamestown was a pain to coordinate, thats nothing compared to what you started here-I think you opened pandoras box:laughing::laughing:.

So, what's you plan WNY?,,,,,,run and never come back on CT:laughing::jester:

We should get some artinerary on this- dimensions/cost limits/etc,,etc,,,

Brian


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> This makes me think of an argument that CONSTANTLY pervades my Night time/Full time Business endeavors.
> 
> Vinyl Purists state that if you CAN NOT spin Vinyl without a Computer based Management System, you ARE NOT a DJ.
> 
> ...


You make some good points there. Often times people forget how much time is spent on the learning curve when computing total man hours into any particular process. 

Thats why we all feel a bit stung when people just compare hourly rates without knowing how much skill and equipment they are hiring for that amount. A guy with little experience and a small arsenal of tools and equipment cannot compete with a seasoned pro using his meticulously selected inventory of chosen weapons. We all know that.

So, what if we said that that the only methods you can use when building the bird house in question are ones that are completely new to you. And the equipment needs to be completely foreign as well? That would level the playing field. It would also kill the deal.

How about we say you are only allowed to use tools and equipment that have completed the payback period in full? Ones that are COMPLETELY free and clear? That takes the cost of the initial investment off the table.

Your point about learning curve pertains to any tool whether it has a computer screen or not. So I guess you are right in that regard. We will have to consider that portion a level playing field. 

It's all fun and games. But a non cnc shop can not keep up when you talk about production when coupled with experience


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Now you did it!- Think that project in Jamestown was a pain to coordinate, thats nothing compared to what you started here-I think you opened pandoras box:laughing::laughing:.
> 
> So, what's you plan WNY?,,,,,,run and never come back on CT:laughing::jester:
> 
> ...


Holy Wow Batman!!!!

I posted this and have been lying low expecting zero replies....hahaha...

My main thought is to keep the playing field as level as possible...I like the idea of a bird house because it's the staple of beginner projects, but has endless possibilities...


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Okay.....here's the deal.....

The only leveling factor I could figure that would level the field is to treat this like a client....

I need a new bird house at my feeding station......This is the focal point of the yard...I'm willing to pay $200....I want it done by labor day for my annual summer end party!...You're hired....

The winner will be chosen by your peers Sept.,7,2010........

























I'm not going to pay....This is just to have a little fun at CT...without a doubt, your spouse, friend or relative may really enjoy the Xmas gift...

....perhaps, if Nathan is so inclined and with the help of the Mods...maybe we can raise the stakes....

Nothing is set in stone.....and again with some help from the mods, getting commitments, and setting up a sign in...might bring this to fruition.....otherwise, a lot of people will say great idea, but ultimately I'll post the only pic....


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

OMG...cranebrook is disqualified.....


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Heck, I'll play, someone set the parameters of the contest. I've got lots & lots of stuff laying around that will make a cool project.


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

angus242 said:


> I just finished mine! :thumbsup:


I would've expected yours to be made out of tile or at least scrap schluter materials.:w00t:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Post #30......

simple....

1"OD, 36"threaded pipe....


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

I have about 3 tons of leftover rebar. Anybody got plans for a birdhouse made from #8's and tie wire?


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

What about to use only hand tools?


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Resta said:


> What about to use only hand tools?


 Good idea, but very hard to verify with the end product.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

loneframer said:


> Good idea, but very hard to verify with the end product.


He's a contractor. He must be trustworthy. :whistling


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Leo G said:


> He's a contractor. He must be trustworthy. :whistling


:laughing:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

All done. :thumbup:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Resta said:


> What about to use only hand tools?





loneframer said:


> Good idea, but very hard to verify with the end product.





Leo G said:


> He's a contractor. He must be trustworthy. :whistling


 I just don't want to lose the option of a gingerbread birdhouse, 'cuz that ain't happening without the scrollsaw.:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Use a hand scrollsaw you lazy bum. :laughing::


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Use a hand scrollsaw you lazy bum. :laughing::


 That would blow the $200 hypothetical budget that WNY put on the project.:whistling This ties in with the thread on Old School carpenters. I wholeheartedly endorse the use of modern technology to achieve old world craftsman results.:laughing: 'Sides, I wouldn't be able to cope with the extra work involved with one of those hand scroll saws.:thumbsup:


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

loneframer said:


> That would blow the $200 hypothetical budget that WNY put on the project.:whistling This ties in with the thread on Old School carpenters. I wholeheartedly endorse the use of modern technology to achieve old world craftsman results.:laughing: 'Sides, I wouldn't be able to cope with the extra work involved with one of those hand scroll saws.:thumbsup:


They did make the rocking pedal kind... sort of like the old sewing machines. :clap:


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

i am in. i like the idea, and it will be a fun project.
lets use modern tools as my hand tool collection is pretty small.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Willie T said:


> They did make the rocking pedal kind... sort of like the old sewing machines. :clap:


 Pedal and scroll at the same time? Sounds dangerous.:laughing:


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## frankster (Apr 8, 2010)

Willie T said:


> All done. :thumbup:


Your wife had to help you with that.


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## frankster (Apr 8, 2010)

There should be a limitation on tools. Everyone hear should have the basics. Hammer, cordless/power drill, glue, paint, wormdrive/sidewinder saw, some form of air nailer/stapler, jigsaw/sawzall, tape measure, straight edge, pencil. People want to purchase materials fine, scrap in the garage then great. I think "finished" dimensions should not exceed a certain size, example Height 20" x Width 20" x Depth 20".


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*So where is this going,,*

WNY- you need help- RS, Myself, actually,,, Angus said he would volenteer on being in charge of this ,,:jester:
Brian


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i can't build sh*t but i will vinyl side the winner for FREE....as long as i can put a job sign out in front for 30 days:clap:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*dimensions,,,*

I would like to do 36"W x 36"h x 15" projection. What WNY wants,,,either way- I am into this- but I want to use every arsenal in my shop,, please no limitations:no:.
Brian


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

What about a photos in the process??


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

PrestigeR&D said:


> WNY- you need help- RS, Myself, actually,,, Angus said he would volenteer on being in charge of this ,,:jester:
> Brian


Yeah, I need help....more ways than one.....

Now that the ball is rolling...what's the prize? It can't be monetary, but perhaps an attachment, or colored screen name to both identify the winner and to label who's in and who's out....kinda like the Ramp-a-thon deal.

As far as tools and materials....I think we should limit tools to field tools, since the majority of us only have access to them....materials, is open...if you are willing to drop $K on a birdhouse more power to ya....if you want to use rebar, concrete, anything....awesome....

so I think max dimensions should be 36"x36"....Pending sign up, we should use a tournament set up....with cedes and a bracket format.....


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I think the best thing to do is keep it simple (contest wise)



We make a sticky in general discussion to stay until date pics are due with the guidelines including specs, maximum size, etc.
(IMO) Limiting tools would be difficult
No sign up should be required (some may decide to do it at the last minute, while others may become too busy to follow through)
Set a date to post pics and on that date take down the sticky
A few days later, post the pics in poll fashion so everybody can vote for a certain period of time-say 10 days
At the end, the most votes win!
As far as a special banner, that would be up to Nathan.
Suggestions or comments?


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

First would be a willing MOD to start a sign up thread with the parameters...sign up should last 30 days or until x date...a bracket posted with cedes based on post count...then build....post date would be labor day, and the general public can vote for each matchup....


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> I think the best thing to do is keep it simple (contest wise)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like that:thumbup: simple....


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> a bracket posted with cedes based on post count


Not following you there. Are you talking say a minimum of 50 posts or something to join?

I'm willing to start the thread and make it a sticky as long as you write the parameters.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

WNYcarpenter said:


> First would be a willing MOD to start a sign up thread with the parameters...sign up should last 30 days or until x date...a bracket posted with cedes based on post count...then build....post date would be labor day, and the general public can vote for each matchup....



I don't see how brackets or seeds would work. If you were building a new house for each round, perhaps. 

Take it from Ron, keep it simple.
*Participants build a birdhouse.
*Needs to be completed by xx date.
*You must take pics of the during process to prove you actually made it yourself (perhaps you need to be in the pic or have something proving date/time???)
*All pics to be posted in the contest thread by deadline. Perhaps 3 shots of final result.
*Votes tallied over X number of days.
*Winner announced and then post pics of the "process".

:confused1:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Sounds good....with pics....something to keep us honest.....


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

WNYcarpenter said:


> should be posted in P&R....250 posts or more.....


 

Let's PLEASE keep it out of the basement. That place _scares_ me! :laughing:

How about minimum 50 posts or a member for at least 6 months?????

Furthermore, what about no restrictions on size or tools, etc. I don't think this should be just about carpenters or tools. If one guy can build cabinets with a CNC machine and another guy doesn't, don't they still have the same result? I don't see how size will be an issue either. If you have the time, go for it. I have seen houses 3x's the size of mine that aren't as nice.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Since it looks like I'm going to be disqualified anyway.... here's a goal for you guys to shoot for.

That's a USA quarter on the railing for size relativity. Cost of each: Not including hot glue sticks, about $3-$6. (use up a lot of scraps, pick up the rest out of the yard.)


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Here are some more shots.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Maybe its just terminology, when i consider the word Contest, generally speaking there has to be guidelines in order for the judging to be fair. I am not talking about strict rules, just some basic parameters so one contestant cant spend $300 on teak and create a 10 room 2ft x 3 ft masterpiece while someone else scraps out in the garage and builds a one room suite . I think the contest will take on a more creative and competitive quality if everyone is basically on the same page. For example, material costs cannot exceed $50 total, overall dimensions cannot exceed 20" x 20" including all perches chimneys etc....At least then there is some continuity, the judges will be comparing apples to apples, GMOD

PS, if rules like this are excepted, each entry will submit 3 photos, one photo must include a tape measure showing the dimensions, also a mat list showing approx cost.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

One of my co-workers gave me the idea....he organized an adult pine-wood derby at the local VFW....The purpose was to raise money for the BSA. He got tired of all the specifics and just wanted guys to have a good time. He went through a similar process of choosing rules. 

Some folks were competitive, but the real fun was getting together for the ridiculousness of the whole thing. The format ended with 2 races. One set strictly to BSA guidelines, and a second 'unrestricted/modified' race. The winners were to be expected, but for the most of us, we drank beer, and had a good time. 

In this case it would be fun just to see what everyone does....IMO, there would be more success with the greatest amount of participants. If that's true then the rules need to be as simple as possible.

If we split hairs, then there should be a couple separate categories....Then we get into adding too much work for the organizers....

I don't see any real victory to be had other than bragging rights...There may be a sleeper out there in excavation who's a closet 'Bird House' guru.... but I can think of a list of members who would probably win if they were inclined to enter.

Group Project, is the best definition of my original intentions....

Let's concentrate on participation, get it done, and see what happens.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Wny,,,,*

this is your baby so what you decide is what it is going to be.
I still think we need some sort of guidline,,,something. 
Brian


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## LEVELBEST (Dec 28, 2006)

Willie T said:


> Here are some more shots.


Is that an old door mat on the roof and bottom of the porch? Btw, those things are AWESOME!


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

LEVELBEST said:


> Is that an old door mat on the roof and bottom of the porch? Btw, those things are AWESOME!


No, that is moss, glued onto the wood. I'm going to try to find some good green stain or coloring for it.

I'd love to take credit for the ideas, but I can't. My mother had several similar to these, but smaller and kind of cheap looking. She got them in the Smokey Mountains. So these are pretty much copies of her birdhouses... as best as I can remember.


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

Yesterday I spot a nice one.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Willie T said:


> Here are some more shots.


While not nearly as "Grand" as Cranbrooks, these Houses are waaaaay nicer! Very inviting and "Storybook" true!


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

Does this birdhouse have to meet code for high velocity hurricane zones?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

The first pic posted by Willie made me think of something in the pasture dressed up a little, but something about it, in the back of my mind, was intriguing. When he posted the others,I think it hit me. The camo effect. I can see how birds might be very comfortable in one of them.

Hope you guys get the particulars worked out. This could be very interesting.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Alright,,,, that's it,,*

typical contractors,,,,,  you guys are killing me here,, come on ,, for gods sakes,,If we can't do somthing so simple,,,,,,seriously,,,:thumbsup:

WNY,,,,,
This is your idea, I love it what you proposed, but we need some guidence here,,, 


,, lets get back on track here ,, 



guidlines,,
at this point , some want restrictions in guidlines, But I diaagree,, but at this point,,,, I don't care , but I disagree,,,,,,,

RS and Angus you guys say"no guidlines" ,, Ok - so what,,,, anything flies,,, come on guys seriously,,,,"I have a nice,,,,large,,,,, cow pattie in the back of the farm,,,,,hmmmmmmm,,,, resembles somthing: ,,, guys,, come on,,,,what the hell is the matter with us,,, this is a poor example of any "structure" of organization, we can't even agree on anything,,,,,,,I know we can do this,, I have faith,, and I am in no way a religious man, but I may get religious on you if you guys cant get your heads together,,,, 
Look, 
This is WNY's idea, and man ,,,,,,,, I want to run with this one,,,, but for the love of sanity,,, lets get somthing going, , Man - I am there, but there is no "there" there,,,,, write now,,,redundant:laughing::laughing::laughing:, let's get this off the ground guys,,, this is a disgrace write now,,what I hear (quite often) " the contractor never called me back",,,,,:laughing::laughing:come on,, lets get it togethere and lets get going on this,, get here up and running,,,, :thumbsup:
Brian


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Brian, WNY and I have been in contact and are hammering out the details.

We are leaning towards only one restriction-being size limit. NOTHING else is verifiable like tools used, amount spent, etc.

If you are expecting a full out contest with legalese and pages of rules, I'm not willing to put myself out there. 

The intent is a light, honor system based, little challenge that is meant to be for _*FUN ONLY.*_

I *will not* put myself in the position where I need to make a judgment call and end up being Judge Judy and have a bunch of posters PO'd. Hence very few restrictions.

We will NEVER have everybody agree on all the rules going in, so we just have to make the best call we can (based on the suggestions above by the posters who want to do this) and go with it. It's WNY's baby, and I'm only volunteering to help.


Do you see the spot I could potentially be putting myself in by volunteering to help?

We're working on it!

Again, this is meant to be fun. If it turns into a pi$$ing match, I will have to withdraw my offer to help.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Rs..*

_MAN_,,,,
How come I knew this was going to light a fire under your ass,,,:laughing::laughing::laughing:,,,but seriously,,, all I am saying is,, we need to be a lot more organized,,,,,as a reputation of members of "CT" ,god knows I love this place and the people,,,,,,,Amen,, that's all,,,:thumbsup:

I know you love me Ron:laughing:, I add excitement,,,,,, and discussed at the same time,,,:laughing: I meant no ill will Ron:notworthy


thanks Dude,,,just help him out RS,, If you need some help,,, seriously,,, I am all ears Ron,,,, man,,, I am not a nice guy,, no pissing match,, for god sakes ,, you have to know me by now,, I meant no ill will,,at all :thumbsup:
Brian



All I am trying to do is help out,, Ron,, man,,, I am here,,, let me help out,,, I am good at this,,,,, i think,,,


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