# Need help with HVLP



## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

This old dog is trying to learn new tricks, and getting frustrated.
This summer I bought a Titan Flex Spray HVLP for a specific job. I an now painting the interior of an 1870's home and as you can imagine there are massive amounts of trim.
I decided to give a go at spraying the trim, (I have always brushed it). I am spraying on SW Proclassic gloss.

After two coats and the paint is dry but the paint isn't as smooth as I feel it should be, it looks great, but feels like 500 grit sandpaper, it just has a bit of a roughness to it. 

Any thoughts as to what I am doing wrong? I have a small amount of paint coming out so it doesn't sag etc, and enough air to push the paint out. I am thinning the gallon of paint with 3 or 4 ounces of latex extender. 

I think I am going back over it with the paint wet to get all the surfaces and the air may be drying it to quickly. 

I will appreciate any advice from those who do this all the time and make it look easy.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

HVLP is not designed for use with latex. It is much to thick to be atomized properly. You would need a 4 stage turbine or a pressure cup/pot gun to push the thick latex through the HVLP.

If you are stuck using that gun you will need to thin it a lot more. On the order of 4-8 oz of thinner to 20 oz of paint..

Your 500 grit paint feel is because you are putting on to little paint with way to much air for atomizing. It needs to go on in a nice wet coat, so it flows after it hits the substrate.


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## gregorywait (Sep 12, 2013)

i cut my latex with polycrylic and has been working for me doing kitchen cabinets and i use a large diameter spray tip


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

How much are you thinning?


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## gregorywait (Sep 12, 2013)

depending on the temperature 25 to 30 percent, i am spraying with a grayco 3 stage, if you are spraying with a pressure cup gun, make sure that air tube to the cup is clear, you need all the air flow you can get to the cup to push that paint up.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That's the ratio that I usually use for latex. Otherwise it won't atomize properly.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I have a Fugi Q4 with an XPc gravity gun. I just sprayed SW Super Paint unthinned through it with a 2 mm tip/needle. Used the stock cup because I only had 2 doors to shoot and wanted to see how it would spray without using the pressure pot. Worked just fine. 

The Pro Classic should have worked well for you. As Leo said you were to thin on the coat(s) it could not flow out.

What size tip were you using?

Tom


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

gregorywait said:


> i cut my latex with polycrylic and has been working for me doing kitchen cabinets and i use a large diameter spray tip


Greg..... What is polycrylic....only thing I think of is waterbase (what I call) waterbase polyurethane.??????

I only know to cut latex with flotroll.... is there a better cutter.

Thanks in advance

Best


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I use plain ole water.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

Leo G said:


> I use plain ole water.


Leo.... Ya know I often do also.... and I swear that Flotrol doesn't make much/any difference..... but maybe like a dummy, I use it for more important finishes....

(Did you know that you can't buy Flotrol in Cali????)


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Leo.... Ya know I often do also.... and I swear that Flotrol doesn't make much/any difference..... but maybe like a dummy, I use it for more important finishes....
> 
> (Did you know that you can't buy Flotrol in Cali????)


You do know Flotrol is an extender not a thinner? 

Distilled water is better than tap to use, or at least filter the tap water. I'm on a well so it makes a big difference. 

If you use BM Aura paint, do not add anything but their thinner, trust me. It's chemistry is just weird. 

Tom


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Pro classic is very different in my opinion than Super, especially in a gloss. I used to use it on most of my wall units until recently, not sue if they changed formula, It seems much harder to get good finish even in semigloss. Too much air and it really affects the sheen. You have to lay a lot on, but not too much. Its too finicky for me.

Takes a long time to dry also, have to keep shelves apart for 4 days or they will stick together.

I use super now also, much easier for me.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

rrk said:


> Pro classic is very different in my opinion than Super, especially in a gloss. I used to use it on most of my wall units until recently, not sue if they changed formula, It seems much harder to get good finish even in semigloss. Too much air and it really affects the sheen. You have to lay a lot on, but not too much. Its too finicky for me.
> 
> Takes a long time to dry also, have to keep shelves apart for 4 days or they will stick together.
> 
> I use super now also, much easier for me.


Try Cashmere.

Tom


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

tjbnwi said:


> Try Cashmere.
> 
> Tom


Will try on next unit, Pro Classic also has an annoying smell but once its dry and the correct sheen it does wear well, but getting there is a pain.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

Thanks for the replies and advice. From what I read the idea of too little paint being applied may be the cause. 
As far as the HVLP I am using, the Titan Flex Spray is intended a wide range of products and is designed to flow latex paint, unthinned. I am thinning the Proclassic with latex extender but I am reluctant to thin too much as it can affect the sheen. 

The Flexspray HVLP does not have changeable tips it simply has a selector ring that sets the tip opening, along with an air flow adjustment. 

I intend to set up some practice trim pieces and practice with different settings and paints, but we all know how we intend to do such things. 
Thanks again everyone.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Again, extenders do not reduce the viscosity of the paint, they just slow the drying process. 

You need thinners.

Never seen the gun, the tip should have been set to at least 2 mm, 2.5 would be better in most cases.

Tom


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Any soluble liquid you add to paint will reduce it's viscosity as long as it's viscosity is less than the paints original viscosity. And with the new latex paints I can't imagine they the flow enhancer would be thicker.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I was told to thin it with water and add a little floetrol to keep it from drying too quickly, I think I used a 1.8 or 2.0 tip. With that paint a 2.5 would have runs everywhere or need to move faster than I like to.

Pro Classic sheen changes drastically when thinned

Shooting pro classic in a Graco truecoat? was a disaster, did not need to be thinned but pushed way too much paint


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

The latex extender I use is definitely a thinner, the stuff looks like weak windex. I will look up the name of it.


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## gregorywait (Sep 12, 2013)

polycrylic is minwax water based poly, it mixes right into latex, i started using it instead of water a couple of years ago, i am getting a really smooth hard finish. for kitchen cabinets i topcoat with straight poly for durability, for trim i don't


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Pretty sure the guy has a HVLP gun that operates off a compressor. Now you have him buying an $800 plus system to paint some trim.

Yes, it's HVLP. But it's not a gun, it's a turbine system is what I was getting at.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

http://www.titantool.com/products/flexsprayfocus/flexspray.html

Looks like a turbine to me.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Pretty sure the guy has a HVLP gun that operates off a compressor. Now you have him buying an $800 plus system to paint some trim.
> 
> Yes, it's HVLP. But it's not a gun, it's a turbine system is what I was getting at.


One of the reasons I prefer my Fugi is I can take it anywhere and spray. My compressor gun I can't do that. 

I have a friend who is telling me I need to upgrade to a CAT gun, the gun is $600.00. So $800.00 for a system is not that much of a difference. 

I was not trying to sell him a thing, just trying to let him know it can be done. In my opinion if you have to spray latex with an HVLP gun, a pressure pot is the only way to go. I can do it with a cup but the pot works better because I can increase the pressure on the fluid. 

If I have to spray latex on a lot of trim then it's shot with the AAA. 

Tom


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I'm spoiled with a AAA too. I shoot with a Kremlin 10:14. If I want to I can make it portable. Only draws 2 CFM off a compressor.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

What really comes out of a thread like this is, as with any other form of construction, no one tool does it all.

I know someone with a Kremlin (not sure which model), he loves how relaxed the hose is. He does not like the wink durning the piston switch, but says he got used to it. 

Tom


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

Now having read this thread i know what too do. Thin the flotrol with water unless i am in cali, Thin latex with flotrol, Never use oil and thin with petrol, Use thinners on every thing to make it flow, Use 2.0 to 2.5 on hlvp, Useing latex. Crap i forgot what size useing oil never mind i will thin with water!. Tip size on graco proshot thinned .011 unthined 015, shoot was that with water or flotrol, Screw this i am going to use a brush. WHAT SIZE, WHAT TYPE, SASH STRAIGHT, BADGER BEAVER NYLON??????????????????????????. NO going to roll 9 inch or 18 inch what nap?:jester:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You gun should have instructions with it that tell you what viscosity is recommended for the proper atomazation. Usually it is stated be a flow time through a special viscosity cup. The Ford #4 cup and the Zahn #2 cup are the common ones.

http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/Viscosity.html


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Fugi ships a Ford 4 cup with their units. 

Tom


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

tccoggs said:


> I thin advance with just a bit of water, around 5 % and is sprays quite nice.


I have more cabinets to paint and I was told BM Advance is the replacement for Satin Impervo. 

How do you like that paint ? Drying time of 4-6 hrs seems long as well as the recoat time of 16 hrs.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

rrk said:


> I have more cabinets to paint and I was told BM Advance is the replacement for Satin Impervo. How do you like that paint ? Drying time of 4-6 hrs seems long as well as the recoat time of 16 hrs.


I just sprayed Advance semi-gloss on some trim and built-ins. Thinned 15% and sprayed with my Fuji Q4. Sprayed very nice! Dries hard.


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## gregorywait (Sep 12, 2013)

it is more about the temperature, 20 to 30 percent is what I use, I have a three stage turbine, and I use a pretty large tip.


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## Damon T (Oct 13, 2008)

rrk said:


> I have more cabinets to paint and I was told BM Advance is the replacement for Satin Impervo. How do you like that paint ? Drying time of 4-6 hrs seems long as well as the recoat time of 16 hrs.


Drying time with hvlp and advance is typically 30 minutes to the touch. Not 4-6 hours. Actually, with brushing too it's still 30-60 minutes to touch. At least in good conditions.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Drying time with hvlp and advance is typically 30 minutes to the touch. Not 4-6 hours. Actually, with brushing too it's still 30-60 minutes to touch. At least in good conditions.


Thats great to hear, the guy at the paint store read right off the can. But he had never used it himself.

Those times you gave me are similar to Pro Classic which for whatever reason cannot be made to this BM CW color


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## Damon T (Oct 13, 2008)

It really depends on temp and humidity. We did some windows today and it was cold outside. Two of them were opening casement style so had to stay open. Took longer for them to dry. We probably waited 4 hours to recoat. I even had a hair dryer going for a while. Probably took at least two hours for it to get dry to touch.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Drying time with hvlp and advance is typically 30 minutes to the touch. Not 4-6 hours. Actually, with brushing too it's still 30-60 minutes to touch. At least in good conditions.


Used Advance for last few days, worked great not at all like ProClassic. No smell, no real long drying time unlike what guy at paint store said, sands nicely the next day, doesn't roll up when sanding like pro classic.
I will definitely use it again,


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

AWESOME vintage thread. :thumbsup:

Lots of good info worth reading in here.
Thanks for digging this one up


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