# Barrier free shower



## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi guys, 

I am looking for some input from experienced bathroom contractors that have dealt with barrier free showers. 

I have a customer that wants bath remodel and one of the requirements is barrier free showers as they see possible need for it in near future. 

The idea is to remove existing Jacuzzi and replace it with shower. The shower area would be about over 6'x5'. Not exact measurements but basically custom size. No shower door just maybe partial glass block wall or something to keep water out. 

They would like to keep existing flooring if possible. (Yeah, I know.) 

My first thought and only thought is to build custom shower base with ramp on the outside of the shower base to match high point of the shower base. Basically a big hump. 

They have some extra tile to build the ramp and inside of the shower and shower base would have to be new tile. 

What are my options here? What else could I do with this situation? 

I am sure they would be willing to deal with replacing the floor if there was major benefit to it in long run. 

Any good product out there that would help me to make this job easier? 

Thanks for your help... Charles


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Start reading:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/barrier-free-shower-pan-115859/
http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/barrier-free-shower-design-awaiting-installation-105032/
http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/barrier-free-shower-design-awaiting-installation-105032/index2/
http://www.contractortalk.com/f74/barrier-free-shower-depth-109102/
http://www.contractortalk.com/f9/ada-barrier-free-showers-32040/
http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/trough-drain-barrier-free-shower-82407/
http://www.contractortalk.com/f74/barrier-free-shower-no-threshold-44719/


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

You can hire me, I'm in the Chicago area :laughing:


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Reading...  Should have done it first I guess... Still any opinions are welcomed and appreciated..


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

angus242 said:


> You can hire me, I'm in the Chicago area :laughing:


Haha... I could use helper if you have nothing else to do.. :laughing:


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## tang (Jan 5, 2009)

In my opinion you should hire Angus!!:thumbsup:


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Good advice.. exactly what I was looking for.. :whistling



tang said:


> In my opinion you should hire Angus!!:thumbsup:


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

IMHO if you can't do the job the "right" way by reconstructing the bathroom, you will keep getting callbacks on that gig. 

If it was a library or rec. room, that would be one thing. But when you are dealing with the force of water, you can't do any substitutions on that floor. 

HO's have a hard enough time keeping water in the bathtub.


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

No, It's not my first bathroom. It wouldn't be my first custom shower base. I do work right.


Bathroom picture

I asked for some direction to make sure the work is done right first time. Why is every one acting like you were born with all the knowledge and because I asked for advice I CAN'T DO THE JOB RIGHT? 

Seriously? 

If customer is trying to save money I will do my best to do so. I understand that starting with full demo would be best solution but if there is way to do it without it and is I can save the existing floor why not?

To tedanderson: When I remove the Jacuzzi I can safely build custom shower base with ramp. Would not that be "right way" for this situation? Where is "the not right part"? Just saying.. It's not always black & white... 

There could be solution or product that I am not aware of and that's why I came here to ask guys for suggestions. Am I asking for too much?


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Charles_cz said:


> Why is every one acting like you were born with all the knowledge and because I asked for advice I CAN'T DO THE JOB RIGHT?


Because this is an internet forum and this is what internet tough guys do!


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

:thumbsup:


SSC said:


> Because this is an internet forum and this is what internet tough guys do!


It's just interesting that no one except griz would come up with something reasonably close to advice or help. 
Sometimes a little advice or new product recommendation can help. 

I expected post like "Here is what I would do in your situation and here is why". It's not like I am trying to suck someone's brain out or stealing somebody's work. I guess I was asking for too much.. lol


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

http://www.barrierfree.org/shower-pans


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Charles_cz said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> It's just interesting that no one except griz would come up with something reasonably close to advice or help.
> Sometimes a little advice or new product recommendation can help.
> ...


If you don't know what to do, that's why you hire Angus... Then he can be on site and you pay him to learn :whistling:


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> If you don't know what to do, that's why you hire Angus... Then he can be on site and you pay him to learn :whistling:


Yet another brilliant piece of advice on this topic.. Good job, Tech Dawg..


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Charles - some guys don't want to tell someone else how to do there job. So they give stupid comments instead of just moving on to a different thread.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Charles_cz said:


> Yet another brilliant piece of advice on this topic.. Good job, Tech Dawg..


Thats actually not bad advice. Angus could surely get it done for you. Youd get to see it done correctly. Small price to pay for education you could capitalize on there after


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

SSC said:


> Charles - some guys don't want to tell someone else how to do there job. So they give stupid comments instead of just moving on to a different thread.


 Yeah, why bother posting anything then. 

I was not looking for step buy step instructions.. More or less for tips what would be best approach.. They are new products on market all the time.. New ways to do things. I thought this place was filled with pros with different ideas to share and healthy discussion could be fun. 

I know I will have to go with custom shower base so no pre-made pan for me (thanks WarriorWithWood). 

I've done bunch of custom shower bases but never one barrier free. Integration with existing floor without replacing the tile is not ideal but possible IMO. 

That's why I was wondering how would other PROs in this community would approach it. Not impressed so far...


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Charles_cz said:


> Yet another brilliant piece of advice on this topic.. Good job, Tech Dawg..


Take a joke...


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Charles can you post a pic or drawing of the space ?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

SSC said:


> Thats actually not bad advice. Angus could surely get it done for you. Youd get to see it done correctly. Small price to pay for education you could capitalize on there after


Thanks.. I've stopped posting any info and detailed advice due to many that take it out of context to critisize on other venues :whistling:
If Charles posts some pictures, Ill be sure to say, "good job!"


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> Thanks.. I've stopped posting any info and detailed advice due to many that take it out of context to critisize on other venues :whistling:


Then no matter how justified the paranoia, you are letting yourself be controlled. That's a shame. :sad:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I'l do it for 75 bucks an hour plus airfair...but I'l throw in a free bag of 4XLT. 







No warranty.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Charles_cz said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> It's just interesting that no one except griz would come up with something reasonably close to advice or help.
> Sometimes a little advice or new product recommendation can help.


Griz posted 7 threads pertaining to your questions. I'm fairly sure I already gave all the info I had on the subject in at least one of those threads. What more could I have done?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Charles_cz said:


> I've done bunch of custom shower bases but never one barrier free. Integration with existing floor without replacing the tile is not ideal but possible IMO.


So you were serious about this? You are not going to replace the floor? Please post some pictures...


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Griz posted 7 threads pertaining to your questions. I'm fairly sure I already gave all the info I had on the subject in at least one of those threads. What more could I have done?


Offered to do the job.. :whistling:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I can't believe no one else picked up on the fact he wants a barrier free shower but wants to keep the existing floor tile. That statement took the cake for me. Ultra high end barrier free with a low budget move like save the floor tile. It's like hanging cedar impressions with used trim nails..


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Then no matter how justified the paranoia, you are letting yourself be controlled. That's a shame. :sad:


Damn.. all you guys are too serious today..


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

SSC said:


> Charles can you post a pic or drawing of the space ?


Here is basic layout of existing bathroom. It is sort of unusual layout. 

1. Whirlpool to be replaced with barrier free access shower with no shower door. Instead maybe partial glass block wall coming from plumbing wall side.

2. Existing shower to be replaced with sauna. Almost afraid to ask for recommendation on sauna. Too many guys to hire.. :blink:

3. Replace cabinets

4. Some el. work. 

Floor.... It looks like it drives everybody crazy here.. :clap:

I was asked by customer if possible to save the floor. Cabinets will have same footing. 

Sauna will be bigger/deeper than existing shower so that is fine too. Shower base would be same or larger than existing bath tub deck. Customer has some extra tile. 

Yes, I am aware of the fact that it would be better to demo the floor and I would easier for me to do my work too. 

Who likes it easy anyway.. :nerd:

That said, is it impossible to keep the floor and do the job right? 

I was thinking about doing "regular" custom shower base with 32" barrier free access and regular shower curb for rest of the shower base with glass block wall. Ramp on the outside of 32" section if that makes sense. (English is not my first language)

Anyway, I was not sure about the transition from regular curb to curbless section. I guess a little more playing with shower base membrane liner would have to do the trick. 

OK... That's my plan so far. I am here to ask for suggestions to see if there is better way to go and make customer happy. So if you have ideas, suggestions, critique please post it. 

Don't tell me to hire angus242.. He is probably busy anyway. 

Thanks Charles

PS: Customer is ready to demo the floor if there is no other way around it. It was just request and I like challenges....


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Nothing to do with your ability to perform the work......that existing layout sucks and is not conducive to a proper ADA shower setup. 

Is this over framing?

Check out this thread:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/akw-curbless-tile-shower-121485/

It's pretty much the simplest way to get a barrier-free shower WITHOUT reframing the floor. 

I'm available in about 2 weeks for a few days, can get you all the details and great pricing for the AKW pan and would seriously try to reconfigure that room. That's the definition of polishing a turd!


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Nothing to do with your ability to perform the work......that existing layout sucks and is not conducive to a proper ADA shower setup.
> 
> Is this over framing?
> 
> ...


Yeah, but he doesn't want to hear that..


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

After rereading the OP, its asking for advice... Then goes on to say that he does the work right and after that showing a picture that the customer is waiting for Demo...??

What you are doing is starting a Rush job with no plan so now you're coming to internet land for crash course in brain surgury and unfortunately your customer will suffer. 
A job like you describe, takes more of a specialist and that starts from the first minute of the initial appointment when you're studying their mannarisms, how they walk and how they reach for the banister as they escort you to the bathroom. At the first glance of the bathroom is when the initial design pops and suggestions start flying based on what you already know about them and what the answers to you're next 10 questions are 
It should not take long at all to have a compitant design that will meet your clients needs but the problem is that you have people ready to start work and you have nothing to show for. Its an embarrassment  We can't complete your sales and design work because that's just something that you have to figure out with your customer. Helping you find the right products is a different story but ya need something to show us :thumbup:


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

angus242 said:


> That's the definition of polishing a turd!


That's new one for me.Thanks for Urban lingo lesson.. :thumbup:

Yes, existing layout sucks but it is, what it is. I just have to deal with it. 

I am nowhere near starting the job. I am just doing my homework before giving an estimate to the customer. 

So far I've been doing shower bases the old fashion way. I haven't used product such as Schluter-KERDI yet.

I thought this might be good opportunity to try something new. I really don't want to modify the framing unless I have to.

To answer your question Yes, it is over framing and finished basement bellow the bathroom. 

Trying to do some re-search on AKW products to see what would work best. :thumbsup:


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> After rereading the OP, its asking for advice... Then goes on to say that he does the work right and after that showing a picture that the customer is waiting for Demo...??


Huh???


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Charles_cz said:


> Huh???


.....???..... You said your customer is ready to start demo. How does that happen and you're still trying to figure what to do? I guess I'm wrong here, in your book but things aren't adding up very well.
Is an AKW pan going to solve your problems :blink:


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> .....???..... You said your customer is ready to start demo. How does that happen and you're still trying to figure what to do? I guess I'm wrong here, in your book but things aren't adding up very well.


Quote:"PS: Customer is ready to demo the floor if there is no other way around it."

Meaning: If there is no other way they are willing to give up the old floor (not right now at this moment). I know my English not perfect but I did not know it was that bad..


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Charles_cz said:


> Quote:"PS: Customer is ready to demo the floor if there is no other way around it."
> 
> Meaning: If there is no other way they are willing to give up the old floor. I know my English not perfect but I did not know it was that bad..


I got ya 

I hear AKW has a good system for keeping an old floor but in short, I will never have anything to do with those systems. 

That seems like a pretty big job/room size to try and salvage a floor. Based on what your describing, I'd go for mud with a linear drain.. At least make it fun while you're there :laughing::clap:


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> I got ya
> 
> I hear AKW has a good system for keeping an old floor but in short, I will never have anything to do with those systems.


Why not?


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Charles_cz said:


> Why not?


I heard they're pretty good and I know Angus and Steve are using them but I just don't do much with preformed pans and don't like being burdoned by drain location... I pm'd you the other reasons why


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## Charles_cz (Mar 13, 2008)

Tech Dawg said:


> I heard they're pretty good and I know Angus and Steve are using them but I just don't do much with preformed pans and don't like being burdoned by drain location... I pm'd you the other reasons why


Got it... Thanks Going to bed now. I almost forgot that I have to go to work tomorrow... Ahh.. today I guess..


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Tech Dawg said:


> Based on what your describing, I'd go for mud with a linear drain.. At least make it fun while you're there :laughing::clap:


You will still have a problem with the 1/4"/ft slope. Also, if this barrier free is because of a handicapped reason, a wheel chair doesn't like the single plane slope.


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