# Which table saw?



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Selling my little Ryobi 10" and my larger Bosch 4100...I pretty much only use my little Ryobi these days as I do most of my work at the shop on the cast iron saw.....

Bosch http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846










or Craftsman/Ridgid

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-...-00921828000P?&prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=L8


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

I have the Bosch and love it. It's small, light, and a very nicely set up saw. The dust collection isn't half bad for a portable ts either.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Any out feet support available for the Bosch.? Once I put the rear outfeed support on my 4100 I HATED using saws without it...the Craftsman has it...I can't find one for the bosch. Even with 4 foot rips, having that extra support makes this 100% easier and safer.

Honestly the only thing bringing me back to the Bosch right now, is alot of my other stuff is Bosch, but I keep going to that Craftsman...


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Every craftsman table saw I have used has been garbage. I'm a Craftsman fan if it's for something I need for one job or a backup but I think a bad table saw is just too dangerous. Check the insert on that one to make sure you can install a zero clearance. Some of the ones I have used have really weird profiles that make it hard to replace. 

I've been shopping these too and just tested the DeWalt last week. I think I'm heading in that direction over the Bosch.


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## MKnAs Dad (Mar 20, 2011)

If you use it on a stand, you can always set up 1 or 2 roller stands as outfeeds


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I hate roller outfeeds more then any other tool out there. I use the Ridgid Flip Tops at the shop. The outfeed in the 4100 is just long enough that i can rip a 1x8-16 solo.

The Craftsman Pro table saw is nothing like the other ones they sell. The others are more like the low end Ryobi saws....

I think I might go with the Bosch and hope they come out with an outfeed....The no zero clearance thing was another hang up on the Craftsman....


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

...just ordered the Bosch, the stand and the dust bag.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

you should look at the small dewalt job saw... I used it and loved it... It is my next purchase.


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## Tylerwalker32 (Jun 27, 2011)

I have the little dewalt and LOVE it. Great portability. Can't rip large widths but that what I have the track saw. It awesome for trim stock and framing lumber.


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## Burns-Built (May 8, 2009)

That's what I have I love the rack and pinion fence, but something fell on it in my trailer and broke the knob ;( and of course I still haven't fixed it.


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## WilsonRMDL (Sep 4, 2007)

Another vote for the small dewalt. Nice and portable but can still produce nice cuts without The saw bogging down


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Bosch 10" with gravity rise stand :thumbup:


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

FramingPro said:


> Bosch 10" with gravity rise stand :thumbup:


You gotta hire an extra guy to help lift that damn thing into the truck at the end of the day. :laughing:


I like the baby-DeWalt one. Haven't used the baby-Bosch yet, but it looks slick. Hope your new saw treats you well, Ghost.


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

My boss bought the little dewalt and I think it's s great saw. Love the rack and pinion fence. That being said, if the bosch were available locally, I would have done my best to talk him into the bosch. Best wishes with your new saw.


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## Brian Peters (Feb 2, 2011)

Brutus said:


> You gotta hire an extra guy to help lift that damn thing into the truck at the end of the day. :laughing:
> 
> I like the baby-DeWalt one. Haven't used the baby-Bosch yet, but it looks slick. Hope your new saw treats you well, Ghost.


I've got that saw ...easiest thing in the world to load in my truck


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

I am on my second Bosch saw and it does everything I want. As for loading it up, please, it's not heavy. Sheesh.


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## Rich D. (Oct 14, 2011)

I have the baby dewalt and think its a great saw. I had to use a craftsman once and it was terrible.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

you may want to drop the stand, and pick up this at some point in the future. I think it will be a purchase of mine (had a Rousseau for an old Mak 2700 and Loved it). This model fits both the DW 745 and baby Bosch.Y ou can get side feeds out feed and feed rail that makes cutting 3/4 melamine by your self almost as easy as with your rail saw not that you want to.

http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/20...ode=10INGOPB&gclid=CM3Dlcmx_bMCFSemPAod-SUA2A


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I picked up the Ridgid version of that Craftsman saw earlier this year. HD was clearing them out for $103. Very nice saw for the money IMO. It's little, but has a lot of nice features for it's size.


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## redwood (Dec 5, 2007)

I also have the baby DeWalt, after my bigger DeWalt started Smoking. It had plenty of hard use, so it's time was due.


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

I love the rack and pinion fence, and with Rousseau making a table for it, the 745 is the one I will buy when I go to replace the Hitachi that was given to me.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

loneframer said:


> I picked up the Ridgid version of that Craftsman saw earlier this year. HD was clearing them out for $103. Very nice saw for the money IMO. It's little, but has a lot of nice features for it's size.


It's the one with the wheels and pull out handle? Like the Crapman pic on this thread? And what is the widest rip it will make? It seems to be a good unit? 103$ How come I never get the deals


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Yeah, the one Lone has is the same as the Craftsman...I guess I ended up getting the Bosch for no other reason then it is Bosch and it seems a bit smaller. I don't like DeWalt's Rack and Pinion fence...too much of a hassle to dial in parallel to the blade and it goes out too often. I base my opinion on the three DW744 table saws I have used in the past 2 years. I may get the Ross stand for the large jobs but then again I may not. 

I am getting rid of my Bosch 4100 and Little Ryobi BT10 table saw b/c I mostly use the little Ryobi now a days. I do most of my heavy ripping in the shop and like the convenience of the smaller Ryobi, just don't like all the vibration and blade deflection from the weak trunnion assembly.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Brian Peters said:


> I've got that saw ...easiest thing in the world to load in my truck



The 10" with gravity rise?


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## Brian Peters (Feb 2, 2011)

Brutus said:


> The 10" with gravity rise?


Yes...fold it up, wheel it over to my truck, set the handle on the tailgate, lift the other end and slide it in.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Brian Peters said:


> Yes...fold it up, wheel it over to my truck, set the handle on the tailgate, lift the other end and slide it in.



Yea, I guess I should of stated I have only ever put it into the van with an over sized back step. I'll see if I can do this next time we have it out.

Cheers.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Following up on some of the comments, small outfeeds are nice, but still not really enough for sheet goods. Roller stands can be awfully inconvenient if the you hook them with the leading edge, so they aren't my favorite. You can always make what you need pretty easily, and it doesn't have to be heavy or bulky. Same thing with zero clearance inserts - a little laminate and hot melt glue or Bondo and you're good to go. 

Last comment, Craftsman saw quality depends on the model.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

as for outfeed, i line it up to the mft and use that.
i dont cut sheet goods on the ts, i use the track saw. much easier by my self.
ts is for small cuts.


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

I am at the luxury of always having other sheet good on site to use, so I just take two adjustable fatmax sawhorses and make a fullsize outfeed table out the back. Takes just as long setting up an outfeed roller or whatever, and gives me an assembly table as well.


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## ROVACON (Apr 19, 2010)

At HD the other morning, I noticed the baby DeWalt on sale for $299.00.

I think you will be happy with the bosch Tom. It's a nice saw.

Believe it or not, my ridgid is 6 years old, used and abused and it just won't brake :laughing:


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

I hate roller out feeds too. They tend to steer the material. The Ridgid flip tops work pretty good. I really want the Rousseau with our feed.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i have never had an issue with the rack and pinion on the dewalt,i don't understand how it goes out of adjustment


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Tom Struble said:


> i have never had an issue with the rack and pinion on the dewalt,i don't understand how it goes out of adjustment


Not sure how it does, but I have seen it happen many times to the two Dewalts we have. Might have something to do with ripping a 2x12x20' frozen, treated floor joist. Seems like the heavy stuff puts a lot of pressure against the fence and knocks it out a little.


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## Clarke Carpentry (Apr 22, 2011)

I have the 4100 with the gravity rise stand. It's a great saw and really not that bad to load and unload from a vehicle once you've got the technique down. It is however a huge, cumbersome, heavy beast. Want to get it up to the 3rd floor of an inner city apartment? Forget it. Down a set of stairs with a 3' landing? Yeah, you're going to ding a wall, especially with the outfeed extensions. I feel like I need 3 table saws these days, the cabinet saw in the shop, the 4100 for large site jobs with good access, and either the baby Bosch or Dewalt for when you need something really portable.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

Warren said:


> Not sure how it does, but I have seen it happen many times to the two Dewalts we have. Might have something to do with ripping a 2x12x20' frozen, treated floor joist. Seems like the heavy stuff puts a lot of pressure against the fence and knocks it out a little.


co worker has a dewalt and the fence is constantly out of whack.
every time he sets it up i end up spending a few minutes to square it back up.
the baby bosch the fence stores on the underside and is protected very nicely. 
Rovacon, i had a rigid ts before. had it for about 6 years. it was still in great shape when i sold it. after getting the track saw and having a cabinet saw in the shop i didnt need one that big anymore. took up too much space, and i am very limited on that.


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## neill (Sep 29, 2011)

FramingPro said:


> Bosch 10" with gravity rise stand :thumbup:


i have that setup. it's a pig. it's good if you're going to be at a job for a while, but it's a real pain for small things. 

good in principle, but a pain in practice.


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

I've worked with many many Dewalt table saws. I've probably got more time with the 744 than I've got on all other jobsite saws combined. I've never actually seen one have problems with misalignment. I had never heard of such a thing until I started hanging out on this forum. Personally, I find the rack and pinion fence to be more secure than Makita or Bosch. Earlier this year, after having problems with a Makita fence slipping and screwing up a cut, I went into the local contractor's supply, set each of the contractor saws they carried on an even inch mark, and knocked the fence with my fist. The two Dewalts were the only saws that the fence didn't move. Makita, Bosch, Hitachi, ect, all moved at least a little. In fact, the cheap Hitachi did better than Makita or Bosch.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

my next saw purchase will be the small saw i think.. i have access to a cabinet saw with a full outfeed table whenever i need it. my bosch 4000 is starting to show its age

as for outfeed for the little bosch why not just build some wood saw horses at the height of the saw table.. we pretty much need sawhorses anyway.. its what i do for ripping full sheets and long stock that need a finish cut so i cant do the rip half way flip and finish the rip method

as for craftsman,, my first saw was craftsman and i hated it.. yes it had power but no matter what i did i coiuldnt get the fence parallel it always pulled in at back which would jamb the saw


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> It's the one with the wheels and pull out handle? Like the Crapman pic on this thread? And what is the widest rip it will make? It seems to be a good unit? 103$ How come I never get the deals


Walked in and saw two of them. One was sold, one was mine.
This is it, check out the specs. Nice capacity for a small saw and it cuts true, right out of the box.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/ridgid-10-in-15-amp-compact-table-saw-342164.html#.UL1Do4Z1uuS


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

chris klee said:


> as for outfeed, i line it up to the mft and use that.
> i dont cut sheet goods on the ts, i use the track saw. much easier by my self.
> ts is for small cuts.


For me, it depends (I mostly work alone, as well). If I'm stripping up some sheets into 3-5" strips, I'll take the added handling that comes with using a TS, as long as I have the space for it. If I can cut on the pile, and it isn't a whole bunch of same width strips, track saw or cutting guide is much much faster. The only thing I've considered adding to what I normally use is a panel saw. Probably if I bought one, I'd wonder how I lived without one. Or maybe I'd wonder why I was dragging a panel saw around - tough to say, so I haven't done it.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

woodworkbykirk said:


> no matter what i did i coiuldnt get the fence parallel it always pulled in at back which would jamb the saw


I just put on a good fence if it isn't up to snuff.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

chris klee said:


> ts is for small cuts.


I work on real old buildings, so a lot of the lumber dimensions would have to be custom ordered to get a match. I may have to open windows and doors to feed, but I'll rip 12' to 16' 2X material on the TS fairly frequently. Some of these wind up being full depth on a 12" saw, then flip to complete the cut.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Tom Struble said:


> i have never had an issue with the rack and pinion on the dewalt,i don't understand how it goes out of adjustment


It does. I fought with one table saw in particular. This DW744 belonged to the lead carpenter/project manger of a job I was on. I was his support carpenter and I used that table saw for almost a year. I finally got tired of the fence being out and figured out how to adjust the fence. I did, it was great...for two weeks, then it was out. Adjusted again and, once again a short time later, it was back out. I am not hard on fences. I don't slam material against it...and I did the adjustments right. I am pretty good with tool, I fix my own...

Even the DW744 that resided in my shop did the same...Keith bought it, tuned it up, it was great...then it went out, I re-tuned it...again it went out...now is sold.

I don't know why, but all the ones I have seen or used where not parallel to the blade. I don't hate DeWalt...I just dislike a few of their tools. I love their DW706 and 708. I don't personally own any b/c yellow clashes and honestly having Bosch is a bit more 'Rare' so it stands out.....sorta...




TempestV said:


> I've worked with many many Dewalt table saws. I've probably got more time with the 744 than I've got on all other jobsite saws combined. I've never actually seen one have problems with misalignment. I had never heard of such a thing until I started hanging out on this forum. Personally, I find the rack and pinion fence to be more secure than Makita or Bosch. Earlier this year, after having problems with a Makita fence slipping and screwing up a cut, I went into the local contractor's supply, set each of the contractor saws they carried on an even inch mark, and knocked the fence with my fist. The two Dewalts were the only saws that the fence didn't move. Makita, Bosch, Hitachi, ect, all moved at least a little. In fact, the cheap Hitachi did better than Makita or Bosch.


If you don't adjust the fence tension correctly it will slip....just like any t-bar clamping fence. Tension adjust is easy, its the thumb wheel on the back of the fence. Tighten it some. Same with the cheap Ryobi fences...tighten the nut on the back of the fence.


All the 744s where all the same. They would be tight at the back of the blade...not enough to bind and kick, but enough to leave excessive saw marks and throw lots of dust in your face. 

Once I properly set-up my Ridgid TS3650 in the shop (cast-iron) and realized a properly tuned, smooth running saw with a good blade will produce NO sawmarks...it was all over. I have spent a good amount of time with veneer calipers setting up all three saws. That Ridgid, the Ryobi and the Bosch. The Ryobi isn't TOOOOOOOOOO bad when set-up, but the trunnion deflects on heavy cuts. The Bosch was close to the Ridgid TS3650 but still has some saw marks here and there. I am hoping the Baby Bosch will come close to the quality of the cut the 4100 gave me.


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

TBFGhost said:


> If you don't adjust the fence tension correctly it will slip....just like any t-bar clamping fence. Tension adjust is easy, its the thumb wheel on the back of the fence. Tighten it some. Same with the cheap Ryobi fences...tighten the nut on the back of the fence.


I tried to adjust the Makita, it was either too tight to slide easily when unlocked, or it moved when you hit it, or both. I think that particular saw was worse than other Makitas I have used, but from what I've seen, even when working "properly", they still aren't as secure as a Dewalt fence. My dad's 744 is one of the few jobsite saws that I will actually trust the measurement mark on the fence, and not pull out a tape to measure the width.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

we have 3 dewalts at work and i have the bosch. when either of em go out of alignment i find its about 5x faster to realign my bosch.. with the dewalt its not the fence itself but the rack and pinion arm.. either the front or back arm gets knocked and they go out of parallel

ive only used 2 makits.. one was a 7 1 /4 when i first started in the trade and the other was a 10" about 5 or 6 years ago.. they have a newer model out now which looks like the fence isnt continous to the back of the table. it ends just past the blade which seems really odd....


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

Tom Struble said:


> i have never had an issue with the rack and pinion on the dewalt,i don't understand how it goes out of adjustment


I'm With you Tom, I personally haven't had any problems with the fence but I have fixed 2-3 of my friends DW745's when they knocked them out of adjustment. It seems to be that the little Allen screw (that the fence slips over) gets moved making the fence no longer parallel.

The fix is:
1. Loosen the REAR screw, the one on the back side of the fence.
2. Raise your blade all the way up. You may want to use a new blade for this in case of a bad tooth or warping on your old balde.
3. Move your fence till it just touches the front of the blade and lock it
4 Use 2 sheets of paper between the fence and back side of the blade to set your toe in, this will provide the cleanest cut as the back teeth are not making that cross pattern on your finish side.
5 Lock down the back screw.
6 Move it to 2" and make a rip, measure the exact size of the rip and adjust your scale.

I have heard several have had problems with the 744 but they don't seem to be the same issues. Aside from the above issue the 745's fence seems bullet proof.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

I have had 3 jobsite saws in recent history.

Hitachi,

Dewalt,

Baby bosch.

The bosch is by far the best jobsite saw I have ever used. Easier to carry better dust collection fence stores on bottom. 

Cole


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## D. Jones Const (Dec 31, 2009)

I hate ridgid tools but I love my ridgid table saw with folding stand on wheels.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

Old Dewalt tools good New Dewalt tools not so much.
Personally I would take the Bosch or Ridgid over the Dewalt.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Its here, I spent about the last hour messing with it. I set the blade square to the table and adjusted the fence parallel to the blade. Gave it a test cut with the stock 24 tooth blade on some 3/4" poplar....less then pleased with the results. My ryobi was almost as good.

Changed the blade to a 60 tooth full kerf Oshlun I have, it has a 30 degree ATB grind on it and I have only used it for cross cutting in my Makita LS1016. The results were alot better but still not as good as my 4100 can do with just a 40 tooth diablo blade.

I am going to check for blade wobble with a dial indicator when I get a chance. I might also take it to the shop, pull the blade off the shop saw and put it on this little guy. The shop saw has a full kerf 50 tooth combo blade and it leaves a pretty nice edge....

If I am not impressed I am sending this thing back and going to get the Craftsman.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

hdavis said:


> For me, it depends (I mostly work alone, as well). If I'm stripping up some sheets into 3-5" strips, I'll take the added handling that comes with using a TS, as long as I have the space for it. If I can cut on the pile, and it isn't a whole bunch of same width strips, track saw or cutting guide is much much faster. The only thing I've considered adding to what I normally use is a panel saw. Probably if I bought one, I'd wonder how I lived without one. Or maybe I'd wonder why I was dragging a panel saw around - tough to say, so I haven't done it.


if i need small rips of PW i cut the sheet to managable sizes with the track saw then rip those on the table saw.
even in the shop i do it that way.
dont know about a panel saw, never used one personally. i figured with a track saw the panel saw isnt really needed anymore. 
guess it just depends on what you do as to what you need.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

TBFGhost said:


> Its here, I spent about the last hour messing with it. I set the blade square to the table and adjusted the fence parallel to the blade. Gave it a test cut with the stock 24 tooth blade on some 3/4" poplar....less then pleased with the results. My ryobi was almost as good.
> 
> Changed the blade to a 60 tooth full kerf Oshlun I have, it has a 30 degree ATB grind on it and I have only used it for cross cutting in my Makita LS1016. The results were alot better but still not as good as my 4100 can do with just a 40 tooth diablo blade.
> 
> ...


if you showed up on my site with a craftsman table saw i might have to ask if it was your first day and you borrowed that from your dad. :laughing:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

chris klee said:


> if you showed up on my site with a craftsman table saw i might have to ask if it was your first day and you borrowed that from your dad. :laughing:


It's thinking like that which pressures guys to go spend 1300 bucks for a chopsaw, thinking it will earn them some street cred. :whistling

Or 300 dollars for a Titanium hammer, cuz it makes you an instant badass.:laughing:

Come to think of it, I have several Craftsman power tools that belonged to my father..:blink:

At least nobody bothers me on the job site. Guess they just assume that I'm the newb with poppy's tools.:thumbup::clap::thumbup:


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

chris klee said:


> if you showed up on my site with a craftsman table saw i might have to ask if it was your first day and you borrowed that from your dad. :laughing:


I really wouldn't care...infact I might be inclined not to work with a narrow minded fool and just leave. The fact of the matter is, if I showed up with the the Craftsman it was because it ended up being superior to the "professional" and "socially accepted" brand. 

I may end up trying this tho...

http://woodgears.ca/saw_arbor/index.html

of course this all could just be the blades I have available to me at the time.


I am really curious to hear from other GTS1031 owners. What do your cuts look like? Care to post some photos?


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

TBFGhost said:


> Any out feet support available for the Bosch.? Once I put the rear outfeed support on my 4100 I HATED using saws without it...the Craftsman has it...I can't find one for the bosch. Even with 4 foot rips, having that extra support makes this 100% easier and safer.
> 
> Honestly the only thing bringing me back to the Bosch right now, is alot of my other stuff is Bosch, but I keep going to that Craftsman...


I LOVE MY GTS!!

For out feed, the back fence rail is EXACTLY 1/2" below the table top. 
I use a scrap pc of 1/2 ply and blue painters tape for outfeed support.

I remove the blade insert, and start my tape in there, then run the pc of tape over the tabletop and onto my 1/2 ply. :clap:

It works fantasticly, then just stick a roller stand under the ply sheet. I use a as small a pc of ply as possible, 6" wide and 8' long. I use it for ripping down 1x and 2x stock. I've never tried sheet goods on this GTS, nor do I plan it.

I can post a pic tomorrow as I will be using the saw.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Aaron Berk said:


> I LOVE MY GTS!!
> 
> For out feed, the back fence rail is EXACTLY 1/2" below the table top.
> I use a scrap pc of 1/2 ply and blue painters tape for outfeed support.
> ...


Can you please grab a picture of the cut, taken with a light at a low raking angle if you can. I am curious to see how smooth the cuts are that your getting.

Also, is your fence square with your table?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

My rigid table saw needs adjusted. It seems like the blade and the slide rail aren't parallel. How do you adjust that, anyone know?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Craftsman's days of good tools has long since passed. I have a couple tools from the50's that still work great. The new stuff is the same as the rest of the tools out there that are made to meet a price point. 

Your grandpa's old saw, router, etc., cost a person near weeks wages to buy it. 

All cheap tools are made to have short lifespans, so they can sell another one to you in 4 years.


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

TBFGhost said:


> Can you please grab a picture of the cut, taken with a light at a low raking angle if you can. I am curious to see how smooth the cuts are that your getting.
> 
> Also, is your fence square with your table?


Yeah I'll be happy to document tomorrows rips. They are going to be noting fancier than 3/4 pine. 

Last 2 days I've been ripping down 2x8's straight from the lumber yard with the stock 24 tooth blade. And yes I get visible blade marks, but then again these aren't jointed cabinet grade boards.

I haven't cut any sheet goods so I don't know how square the fence is, but it has been square enough for my current work.
I'll measure it as well tomorrow.


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Craftsman's days of good tools has long since passed. I have a couple tools from the50's that still work great. The new stuff is the same as the rest of the tools out there that are made to meet a price point.
> 
> Your grandpa's old saw, router, etc., cost a person near weeks wages to buy it.
> 
> All cheap tools are made to have short lifespans, so they can sell another one to you in 4 years.



I have an old school *craft*sman 1/4" router, complete with incandescent bulb. It's my go to tool for small work. New stuff is all CRAPsman (with very few exceptions)


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

TBFGhost said:


> ...no place local that I want to bother driving to. Shipping is easy. UPS drops off, I open up check it out and send it back if I don't like it. To send it back I just tape it up, put it on the porch and push a few buttons on the computer. I don't even have to print anything out. Next day its gone and a new one is on the way. I have Amazon Prime, Free two day shipping.
> 
> As far as side to side play, there should be Zero. Any self respecting table saw will have none. My Ryobi bearings having none, but it leaves marks because of the super weak, stamped steel trunnion. If I can't get good cuts from the Bosch there was no reason to stop using the Ryobi. Your saw leaves alot less marks then mine did...




I've not yet looked under the table of my GTS, I didn't even check the arbor nut before cutting with it.....

I agree, there should be ZERO play in the arbor of a real saw.
Sooner or later I'll look to see whats causing my wobble.

But like I said before, it doesn't really affect the jobs I'm using this baby saw for.
I bought the GTS cause it's tiny and stacks on it's side. :thumbsup:
And at those 2 tasks it excels :laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

What are you guys using this "type" of saw for.....:blink:

Seriously...:blink:






B,


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

when installing box kitchens, there are fillers. they need to be cut.
when trimming windows, there are extension jambs and window stools that need to be cut down.
thats where the table saw is needed.


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## Aaron Berk (Jul 10, 2010)

Yep, cutting fillers. 
And those oh snap moments when your doing a install (of anything) and you wish you had a TS.

I use it as a complimentary tool. I take it with me just in case.
That's why I bought a saw I could shove in a corner, or stow under my cabinet saw.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So basically , junk cutting.....nothing percise....:blink:





B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

:laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

PrestigeR&D said:


> So basically , junk cutting.....nothing percise....:blink:
> 
> B,


Good Gawd, don't cut your junk with it


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I meant small cutting jobs,....that didn't sound to good...:laughing:



Does anyone own the ridgid portable saw with the stand.....:blink:

Every time I go into HD I walk by and see that displayed And wonder if It's any good.......:blink:


The blade wobble That TBF has spoken about.......do they all have this play in them........:blink:


B,


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I meant small cutting jobs,....that didn't sound to good...:laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had one for years. It is a really good saw. 
when its your only saw or you make cabinets and stuff on site its perfect. unlike the baby bosch or the dewalts it will take a 3/4" dado stack. 
after you start making stuff in the shop with a cabinet saw, and you get a track saw, then it becomes bigger than needed.


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> The blade wobble That TBF has spoken about.......do they all have this play in them........:blink:
> 
> 
> B,


mine doesnt. must have been a bad batch or something. 
i am still running the stock blade on mine even. one of these days i will grab a better blade but this one works pretty well for ripping.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

My 3rd one is supposed to shop up tonight....


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> My 3rd one is supposed to shop up tonight....


GOOD LUCK! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Not here yet....might not get it till tomorrow...holiday season and all.


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## Five Star (Jan 15, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> Yeah, the one Lone has is the same as the Craftsman...I guess I ended up getting the Bosch for no other reason then it is Bosch and it seems a bit smaller. I don't like DeWalt's Rack and Pinion fence...too much of a hassle to dial in parallel to the blade and it goes out too often. I base my opinion on the three DW744 table saws I have used in the past 2 years. I may get the Ross stand for the large jobs but then again I may not.
> 
> I am getting rid of my Bosch 4100 and Little Ryobi BT10 table saw b/c I mostly use the little Ryobi now a days. I do most of my heavy ripping in the shop and like the convenience of the smaller Ryobi, just don't like all the vibration and blade deflection from the weak trunnion assembly.


I got that Rousseau stand if your interested pm me !


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

3rd is the same at the first two...videos below.

Play at Arbor on GTS1031
http://s395.beta.photobucket.com/user/tbfghost/media/DSCN3346.mp4.html

Play at blade rim on GTS1031 (this is just what it takes to make it click, not total blade deflection)
http://s395.beta.photobucket.com/user/tbfghost/media/DSCN3347.mp4.html

Play at Arbor on my 4100 for a reference...
http://s395.beta.photobucket.com/user/tbfghost/media/DSCN3349.mp4.html

Talking to Bosch about it now, they are putting me in touch with the product manager...I e-mailed them the videos...we shall see.

I may end up doing the bearing myself, buy a real high quality one and put it in there.

So as it turns out, the Craftsman out performs the Bosch....Name and price didn't mean a freaking thing....


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

And here is a video of what it looks like when it starts up....and how bad it sounds.

http://s395.beta.photobucket.com/user/tbfghost/media/DSCN3336.mp4.html


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

no..actually Dewalt beats Bosch..:whistling


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Tough to believe QA/QC is that bad. Like selling a car with a wobbly wheel.

So if I buy something, it should be the Craftsman. If I go through the trouble of upgrades on it, I'm still in a decent price range.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Man that sucks, I wonder if they changed something because I bought mine the very first week they came out. Although it sounds similar at start up I don't have that play.

Cole


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

That was only a thousand or two. What more is to be expected from a 300 dollar plastic screamer box?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

sounds like teeth meshing together at the end of your video...



Im not leaning towards bearings.....doesn't seem possible......

look at the head on this
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/armature-p-47221.html

thats driving this....http://www.ereplacementparts.com/toothed-gear-p-47248.html

which drives your primary shaft........http://www.ereplacementparts.com/primary-shaft-p-47252.html





they might all be like that.......:blink:



B.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> That was only a thousand or two. What more is to be expected from a 300 dollar plastic screamer box?



0, just like the really cheap Ryobi I have and the Bosch 4100 table saw and the Makita SP6000 rail saw, the Makita LS1016 miter saw, the Bosch 5412 miter saw, the Bosch GCM12SD and basically every other half decent tool I have owned. There is no reason to not have 0.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> sounds like teeth meshing together at the end of your video...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This bearing guides the primary shaft...I call it the arbor....if this bearing isn't tight, you get play.

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/ball-bearing-p-47251.html


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

TBFGhost said:


> This bearing guides the primary shaft...I call it the arbor....if this bearing isn't tight, you get play.
> 
> http://www.ereplacementparts.com/ball-bearing-p-47251.html


I wonder if an arbor shim will fix it up. Just sucks you are having to do this.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/arbor-shims/machine-tool-accessories/machining/ecatalog/N-9mk


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Cole82 said:


> I wonder if an arbor shim will fix it up. Just sucks you are having to do this.
> 
> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/arbor-shims/machine-tool-accessories/machining/ecatalog/N-9mk


I believe the bearing is press fit to the arbor and whatever casting it is set in. I Believe the play to be in the bearing itself.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Its just a 6002 sealed bearing. Taiwan made, TPI. I have Japanese 6002 bearings at the shop...I might just swap it already and see if it changes.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Deleted the images from Photobucket


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Deleted the images from photobucket untill I get a clear answer from Bosch on what they think.


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

i have the baby dewalt going on about 5yrs. only had to tweak it once or twice. it's light and always cut's straight with plenty power. just pick up a 2nd off of cl. i do like the bosch rollcage but it's about 7-8lbs heavier then dewalt and not too sure about the bosch guide staying sqr by taking on/off. 
i always use a vac and the dc is pretty good. either one would be fine. check out cpooutlets.com refurbished bosch.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

CITY DECKS INC said:


> i have the baby dewalt going on about 5yrs. only had to tweak it once or twice. it's light and always cut's straight with plenty power. just pick a 2nd off of cl. i do love the bosch rollcage but it's about 7-8lbs heavier then dewalt and too sure about the guide staying sqr by taking on/off.
> i always use a vac and the dc is pretty good. either one would be fine. check out cpooutlets.com refurbished bosch.


Thanks, but I think your post is a little too late to the party. :thumbsup:


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

I was at the local contractor supply today, and because of this thread, I checked out the baby Bosch. The blade had a little bit of play. Honestly, I don't know if you would even feel it if you weren't looking for it, but comparing it to the baby Dewalt right next to it, which didn't have any play, the bosch definitely had some play.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I am willing to bet that every single saw has this in it. Bosch is the new DeWalt. Good stuff 10 years ago...today = crap.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

TBFGhost said:


> I am willing to bet that every single saw has this in it. Bosch is the new DeWalt. Good stuff 10 years ago...today = crap.


Kind of correlates to where they were made 10 years ago and where they are made now.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Kind of correlates to where they were made 10 years ago and where they are made now.


I would agree 100% except my 4100 which has been a good saw (had to replace the rear armature bearing due to dust drying out the lube) and its made in Taiwan, just like the GTS... That being said, I do agree their tolerances are slipping more and more....

I have not heard back from Bosch customer service yet....

I didn't have a 6002 bearing, I had a 6200...a few actually. So I called up VXB bearing to talk to them about this bearing.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BBMBEE/ref=ox_ya_os_product

I told them what I was trying to do and that I think I need a bearing with a radial clearance of zero. The lady I spoke with seemed very knowledgeable and said that unless otherwise stated all their bearing are C0 and that I did indeed need a C0. I asked if I could get a Nachi (Japanese) bearing in C0. They don't have any. She said that most people order the cheaper steel bearing for use in their saws. I told her I selected the one above b/c if I am going to go through the labor I want to use a better bearing for a little more money. She agreed and said the bearing I selected will last longer due to a lower co-efficient of friction and if I ever have a problem to give them a call. 

Amazon will have it to me Saturday.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Amazon pulled it. They are reviewing their inventory.


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## redwood (Dec 5, 2007)

So are you attempting to repair your saw, yourself? Won't that void any warranty.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I sure it would void it , but Bosch customer service sucks anyway. I called again today, spoke with a woman who forwarded me to the "senior techs", then spoke with a "senior tech" who forwared me to another guy who was in a meeting..... left a message for him to call back


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

that really sucks. Bosch used to be nice stuff.
at least you know enough to look at these bearings and figure out this type of thing.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

The guy called me back, said he got my e-mail but Bosch won't let him open the links (virus protection), so he said he forwarded it to a product manager, and that guy forwarded it to his personal e-mail who will then open it tonight and they will call me back Monday morning...............................................


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

New bearing is in, but it still has a bit of wiggle...only option left is I am wrong on the back needle bearing and the clearance between that needle bearing and the arbor is off allowing it to move. The part of the arbor (primary shaft) that rides in the needle bearing is milled too small (or bearing too large) and that clearance is allowing the wiggle....

So there is not a damn thing I can do about it at this point short of having a new primary milled up....now its all on Bosch to get this right.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> Your wrong. The saw shouldn't have the play in the arbor. Most other job site saws...even the little "plastic screamers" don't. If your satisfied with sub-standard tools b/c the are "job site" then so be it. I have too much personal experience with saws that don't do this to be convinced that I am asking for too much. I don't think your grasping the point. I am not a moron, I know there are limitations to job-site saws as far as the cut quality your gonna get...this is not acceptable for even a job site saw.


I get what you're saying and I agree with you that job site saws should give a pretty good result. My point to you is that the Bosch compact saw seems to be designed for folks that don't know the difference between a good cut or a bad one. The saw appears to be pretty bad. Bosch is not what it once was. We're not talking about Festool here and we never where. :no:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

the other issue with the baby bosch is that its still new.. they prob havent gotten to the 2nd gen of it where the issues have been dealt with. they had issue with teh 4000 along with the 4100 when they first came out.. they fixed those and their the best jobsite saws on the market.

the dewalt is nice but a major pain in the ass to tune up and clean


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

....unless we're talking about the Swiss made jig saws. :thumbsup:


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

...My swiss made Drill is a beast too. 

Table saw is still at the service center


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Face it, if a new TS gets a worse cut than my $20 closeout sidewinder Skil circ saw, there's something really wrong (OK, so I bought it a number of years ago, but it never was top shelf).

Ideally, it should be better than my Milwaukee sidewinder with Avanti finish blade. Not one of the new Avanti's, it's an older (now discontinued) slotted and laser cut one that the Milwaukee happens to like a lot.

Sure, the guy isn't buying a cabinet saw, but all he's looking for is cut performance maybe a little better than out of common circ saws.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

I grabbed the blade on a display at Menards last night... I could feel the play:no:


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

Had no problems with the ridgid job site (the one on the stand). Had the portable.. was cute, worked ok, but sucked for a lot of things. I wanted to save space during transport, but it ended up taking up about the same space, and 10x longer to set it up. That stand is the bomb, and I will get it soon for my miter saw.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Wrong,.....:blink: 

$350.00 for a job site saw.....:blink:....your asking an awful lot out of that.....

I won't and don't expect much,,,,,,i think of them as being used for sizing ...junk cutting....

There is a lot you can do in the shop,...if you take the time to draw out detailed measurements., ...it's just a transfer of dimensions,,,,,,:blink:


JMPOV .....





B,


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## Sawdust54 (Nov 19, 2008)

One thing for sure "The Ghost" has far more patience than I do. I would have left the TS on someones counter a long time ago & demand my money back. I have been in business since 1983 & have seen a lot of tool issues. I know this has probably been argued before but we will not regardless of the model numbers get the same tool from a box store that we would from a pro shop. I have out lived 3 major BS over the years & there tool people have assured me of this. Yes it may look the same, feel the same but no one knows exactly what goes into these tools. Today our tools are made, bought out, shipped & assembled everywhere. Somewhere along the trip a tool makes from factory to the store someone is going to replace a part of lesser value for some certain sale, closeout, grand opening or buy this & get this for free! I'm thankful I still have a lot of Porter Cable Made in USA with steel boxes & for you old timers remember when B&D made the Professional line...still got a few of them too.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

Sawdust54 said:


> One thing for sure "The Ghost" has far more patience than I do. I would have left the TS on someones counter a long time ago & demand my money back. I have been in business since 1983 & have seen a lot of tool issues. I know this has probably been argued before but we will not regardless of the model numbers get the same tool from a box store that we would from a pro shop. I have out lived 3 major BS over the years & there tool people have assured me of this. Yes it may look the same, feel the same but no one knows exactly what goes into these tools. Today our tools are made, bought out, shipped & assembled everywhere. Somewhere along the trip a tool makes from factory to the store someone is going to replace a part of lesser value for some certain sale, closeout, grand opening or buy this & get this for free! I'm thankful I still have a lot of Porter Cable Made in USA with steel boxes & for you old timers remember when B&D made the Professional line...still got a few of them too.


Nice of Dewalt/Porter Cable to quit making the triggers for the B&D Super sawcat. Everything else is the same on the larger base Dewalt saws. That saw was the safest saw on the market, even if the triggers needed replaced twice a year from all the brake abuse….it was worth it.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Wrong,.....:blink:
> 
> $350.00 for a job site saw.....:blink:....your asking an awful lot out of that.....
> 
> ...



I don't see how a decent set of bearings is too much to ask, even if it's a $350 saw. I don't know anyone who buys a used saw at any price with bearing slop (unless they're planning on rebuilding it).


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

The problem I am having is simply, the Bosch saw was designed with some great features...in theory its a freaking great saw....there isn't one out there that is "better"....if only the quality of the machining was up to par with any table saw out there....$350 is a fair amount for a table saw when I can go get a Ryobi or Skil for $99 and they don't have play in the arbors.

If the arbor issue isn't resolved I am sure at some point in the near future I will just **** can it and get something else. I have it , I invested in the accessories so I am gonna try to make the best of it.

I am a little disappointed that some are giving Bosch a pass on this...its just letting more companies know that you don't care about the quality of their tools.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> The problem I am having is simply, the Bosch saw was designed with some great features...in theory its a freaking great saw....there isn't one out there that is "better"....if only the quality of the machining was up to par with any table saw out there....$350 is a fair amount for a table saw when I can go get a Ryobi or Skil for $99 and they don't have play in the arbors.
> 
> If the arbor issue isn't resolved I am sure at some point in the near future I will just **** can it and get something else. I have it , I invested in the accessories so I am gonna try to make the best of it.
> 
> I am a little disappointed that some are giving Bosch a pass on this...its just letting more companies know that you don't care about the quality of their tools.


What are the features of this saw that make it so great, that seperate it from the competition? According to the review of the saw the author didn't think the saw was so great. What are your thoughts?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

it's just a theory..:nerd:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

compared to the rigid and dewalt compact saws, its metal construction. .has a roll cage frame.. everything stores on board. both the rigid and dewalts are highly susceptable to getting damaged in transport



my boss's father owns the mini dewalt and he needs the fence replaced, he keeps his dewalt in his van and uses it all the time but by no means hard on his tools, he takes very good care of em


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

Both the risgid and Bosch have roll cage frames. Bosch had a smaller rip capacity or so I thought.

Yes the storage of the fence and anti kick backs make it superior

But moving up to the contractor saw. Solves all the problems.. Lol


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

madmax718 said:


> Both the risgid and Bosch have roll cage frames. Bosch had a smaller rip capacity or so I thought.
> 
> Yes the storage of the fence and anti kick backs make it superior
> 
> But moving up to the contractor saw. Solves all the problems.. Lol


Mostly he on board storage and the fence not being rack and pinion. I HATE the R and P fence...I know some love it, but I hate it. The downsides to the Craftsman where the fact that there is no stand...not as compact and simple to set-up as the ones that Bosch and DeWalt have, it also is larger, which makes it harder to truck up stairs. Being able to quickly move your set-up near where your working speeds up the work ten fold. I want a compact job-site saw...not the full size job-site saws or a contractor saw...I had a 4100, great saw, too big, and a contractor saw is just too large to move around period, my TS3650 is NOT portable. When I need to do alot of table saw work, its done in the shop, but there are still jobs where I build alot on site.


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## neill (Sep 29, 2011)

double post - see below


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I don't only rip fillers tho, alot of times I am ripping boards and gluing them up. Columns, pilasters, coffer ceilings, face frames on built in place window seats and what not. I don't want to have to do excessive sanding on the edges prior to joining the boards b/c of what should be considered a defect in the saw.


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## neill (Sep 29, 2011)

TBFGhost said:


> Mostly he on board storage and the fence not being rack and pinion. I HATE the R and P fence...I know some love it, but I hate it. The downsides to the Craftsman where the fact that there is no stand...not as compact and simple to set-up as the ones that Bosch and DeWalt have, it also is larger, which makes it harder to truck up stairs. Being able to quickly move your set-up near where your working speeds up the work ten fold. I want a compact job-site saw...not the full size job-site saws or a contractor saw...I had a 4100, great saw, too big, and a contractor saw is just too large to move around period, my TS3650 is NOT portable. When I need to do alot of table saw work, its done in the shop, but there are still jobs where I build alot on site.


i'm in the same boat. i'm in the shop for all major work but need a small ts for ripping fillers or other small pieces. my full size job site saw (Bosch w/ gravity stand) is uneccesarily large. for remodeling a small portable saw seems much more useful and less likely to scratch walls etc. carrying it around.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> I don't only rip fillers tho, alot of times I am ripping boards and gluing them up. Columns, pilasters, coffer ceilings, face frames on built in place window seats and what not. I don't want to have to do excessive sanding on the edges prior to joining the boards b/c of what should be considered a defect in the saw.


You really edge glue without joining the edges? You sand them and then edge glue them, really? 

The Festool TS 55 will produce a far better edge than a compact site saw. You're asking far to much from the tool, bad bearings or not.


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## neill (Sep 29, 2011)

Craftmark said:


> The Festool TS 55 will produce a far better edge than a compact site saw. You're asking far to much from the tool, bad bearings or not.


i agree with that completely. if something requires glueing boards then it requires jointing. if you're asking for glue-up ready edges from most (i say MOST) cabinet saws i think you're asking quite a lot.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Craftmark said:


> You really edge glue without joining the edges? You sand them and then edge glue them, really?
> 
> The Festool TS 55 will produce a far better edge than a compact site saw. You're asking far to much from the tool, bad bearings or not.


Yeah, I do, not every glue line joint needs to be jointed or perfect, but they need to be reasonable...and this is easily obtained with a properly tuned job-site saw and I am not asking for jointed grade cuts... I am guessing you cart a jointer on to every job-site with you then? Rail saws produce good edges, but are MUCH slower to use on small stock and repetitive ripping. The reason I got rid of the 4100 was b/c I have a rail saw to take care of the large rips, so a smaller, compact table saw is all I need.

Again, you keep assuming I have never actually used a portable table saw before and I am basing my thoughts on much larger machines....I am not a moron, I know the difference.


Try and read the whole thread before posting.

Further more, alot of my ripped edges can be the finished faces of things...the GTS leaves MUCH more to be sanded off then the 4100, or a DW that is properly tuned.

This is an acceptable cut to you?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Just carry a block plane. 

I have a saw that will give me a good enough edge to glue exterior trim boards together, although it only takes a second to run them over my jointer. For site work, I make sure my ripped edges butt into something, like a wall or ceiling.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm taking some quick notes here - if I'm ripping a bunch of strips to use as edge banding, I should run the board through the jointer, cut the strip at 5/16", then run the 5/16" strip back through the jointer to get the other side smooth before I tack / glue it in place. Or maybe I should bring an actual planer to do that second side, instead of the jointer?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Just carry a block plane.
> 
> I have a saw that will give me a good enough edge to glue exterior trim boards together, although it only takes a second to run them over my jointer. For site work, I make sure my ripped edges butt into something, like a wall or ceiling.


http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=8


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Exactly, a block plane or some light sanding is all that should be needed. 

I find the hypocrisy unbelievable. So many complaints about how tools are being made cheaper and quality is going down hill, but then so many people are so willing to call this good enough when anyone who has used a job-site saw knows that having play in the blade is a no no. But that is why tools keep getting worse and worse and worse...people just don't care.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> Yeah, I do, not every glue line joint needs to be jointed or perfect, but they need to be reasonable...and this is easily obtained with a properly tuned job-site saw and I am not asking for jointed grade cuts... I am guessing you cart a jointer on to every job-site with you then? Rail saws produce good edges, but are MUCH slower to use on small stock and repetitive ripping. The reason I got rid of the 4100 was b/c I have a rail saw to take care of the large rips, so a smaller, compact table saw is all I need.
> 
> Again, you keep assuming I have never actually used a portable table saw before and I am basing my thoughts on much larger machines....I am not a moron, I know the difference.
> 
> ...


No, I would never rip lumber on site with a compact site saw for glue ups. :no: I'd do them in the shop. Sanding them makes no sense as you would only round over the edges IMHO. These saws don't produce that good of a cut. 

If the saws you have produce such a great cut why do you need a new one? 

I don't take a joiner to the site but I do take a portable surface planer. If I need to make solid edging I rip them and then send them through the surface planer. I will also do this to 1x stock up to 3" wide to clean up the edges. 

Best of luck hope they get the saw fixed.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> Exactly, a block plane or some light sanding is all that should be needed.
> 
> I find the hypocrisy unbelievable. So many complaints about how tools are being made cheaper and quality is going down hill, but then so many people are so willing to call this good enough when anyone who has used a job-site saw knows that having play in the blade is a no no. But that is why tools keep getting worse and worse and worse...people just don't care.


Who is being a hypocrite? I care a great deal about tool quality. I also understand tools have limitations. 

If a saws cut quality sucked as bad as your Bosch I'd find a tool that was better.


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## Nick R (May 20, 2012)

This is very disappointing to me, the cuts from that saw are unacceptable for most of anything. I was really hoping to get this saw soon, I have been using my father's makita 8" from the 80's and love it, but am afraid that something is going to go on it soon. I really didn't want to like the baby dewalt, but it looks like it is the only option for a compact saw. Wish someone still made an 8"... 

I hope that Bosch is keeping an eye on this and is taking note.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)




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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

i get very good glue ups using the ts55. i have done many on my bosch saw. never had any complaints, issues, call backs.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Craftmark said:


> If the saws you have produce such a great cut why do you need a new one?


I have already answered that question a few times. 





Craftmark said:


> Who is being a hypocrite? I care a great deal about tool quality. I also understand tools have limitations.
> 
> If a saws cut quality sucked as bad as your Bosch I'd find a tool that was better.


I have a feeling this is what it going to come to...but I don't know what I will replace it with. At this point I am just hoping Bosch might wake up and fix this saw...but it gonna take more then just me saying something.



Cole82 said:


>


Your saw seems to make good cuts...I will trade you. :thumbsup:



blackbear said:


> i get very good glue ups using the ts55. i have done many on my bosch saw. never had any complaints, issues, call backs.


Exactly, I have jointed items right off my Makita Rail and the 4100 table saws... with these saws if the ripped edge is showing, it takes a few swipes with some 120 grit and the marks are gone...

If this saw didn't have play in the arbor there would be no problems...


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

I know you mentioned your disdain for the DeWalt fence. You could drop it in the Rousseu set up. They are very nice. I've got one for my old 10" Makita and they make a great set up if you don't mind carring two extra pieces. 

Either way Bosch needs to tighten up there products. Maybe it's the China manufacturing. That's no excuse though. Hope it all works out for you.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

TBFGhost said:


> Your saw seems to make good cuts...I will trade you. :thumbsup:


Sorry I like my baby bocsh unless........ I will sell it for $1500 plus shipping. :whistling

Cole


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

Craftmark said:


> I know you mentioned your disdain for the DeWalt fence. You could drop it in the Rousseu set up. They are very nice. I've got one for my old 10" Makita and they make a great set up if you don't mind carring two extra pieces.
> 
> Either way Bosch needs to tighten up there products. Maybe it's the China manufacturing. That's no excuse though. Hope it all works out for you.


Haven't heard of the Rousseu set up before, it looks very interesting, thanks.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Craftmark said:


> I know you mentioned your disdain for the DeWalt fence. You could drop it in the Rousseu set up. They are very nice. I've got one for my old 10" Makita and they make a great set up if you don't mind carring two extra pieces.
> 
> Either way Bosch needs to tighten up there products. Maybe it's the China manufacturing. That's no excuse though. Hope it all works out for you.


Too big...it would defeat the purpose of the compact table saw for me. If I get another it will be the Craftsman...or maybe Makita will step into the ring at some point.


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## Jswills76 (Nov 12, 2012)

I only read the last couple pages but it sounds to me like you guys need to forget about bosch. I gave up on them. My makitas never let me down. They also make a Rousseau jr fence. 140$ looks nice. I uses forest blades in my saws. You can get good cuts with a portable saw.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Got it back today, the tech when CRAZY and replaced everything and anything under the sun. Bearings, Castings, the primary shaft, the gear, the armature and a few other things. Its better, but there is still play in there. He showed me the old parts and the play is indeed at the needle bearing. The cuts are acceptable but they are not up to par with the 4100 and I am willing to be the DW745....


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

I think we all agree that you cannot remove all play. But certainly any play will result in less accuracy and more finish work.

But I've seen those results from blades that are warped.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

TBFGhost said:


> Got it back today, the tech when CRAZY and replaced everything and anything under the sun. Bearings, Castings, the primary shaft, the gear, the armature and a few other things. Its better, but there is still play in there. He showed me the old parts and the play is indeed at the needle bearing. The cuts are acceptable but they are not up to par with the 4100 and I am willing to be the DW745....


your wearin me out bro..:sad:


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

madmax718 said:


> I think we all agree that you cannot remove all play. But certainly any play will result in less accuracy and more finish work.
> 
> But I've seen those results from blades that are warped.


No we can't, but Bosch can. That play is still noticeable by hand. Prob still shows up as a thousandth or so at the arbor.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> your wearin me out bro..:sad:


Reality can be a very difficult pill to swallow, no?


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> No we can't, but Bosch can. That play is still noticeable by hand. Prob still shows up as a thousandth or so at the arbor.


Do yourself a favor and go back and re-read your own thread. There was very little positive feed back on this saw. If the Bosch 4100 was a good tool for you go get another one. This saw you have will not make you any more money and frankly, will cost you cash. How much time have you waisted to date and the cut still isn't exceptable to you.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks you all your positive input towards this thread. I am glad you have been able to provide information for other contractors out there that might be looking to purchase this saw. You posts have been filled with technical details and in-site based on fact and backed up with many proofs.

I don't need to repeat myself as to why I wanted the GTS in the first place, its all over this thread. 


I have only wasted a few hours of my time and $20. Was it worth it? For me personally, No. The saw isn't really THAT much better but I at least provided some real data to people on this forum to look at when they want to buy this saw. I just hope they can wade through all the junk that was posted and can find it. I also provided some feedback to Bosch (I hope) on the saw itself. Maybe they will listen and fix the problem at some point...maybe they won't. I think that all depends on how many other people speak-up.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

You want Powermatic66 results from a plastic table saw. Good luck with that. :blink:


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## Five Star (Jan 15, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> No we can't, but Bosch can. That play is still noticeable by hand. Prob still shows up as a thousandth or so at the arbor.


Unfortunately today's tools are not built to last, that's why I'm not parting any more with my older stuff and keeping it for my son to use if he wants to follow in the field or just as a hobby! I have a Makita 2704 table saw, early 90s porter cable jigsaw,older 716 dewalt chopsaw, anything besides festool that I bought after 2008 seams to only last a year or 2 before its ready for craigslist unless a dumpster is closer!


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

TBFGhost said:


> Thanks you all your positive input towards this thread. I am glad you have been able to provide information for other contractors out there that might be looking to purchase this saw. You posts have been filled with technical details and in-site based on fact and backed up with many proofs.
> 
> I don't need to repeat myself as to why I wanted the GTS in the first place, its all over this thread.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you got to the bottom of this and appreciate it. I was thinking about that saw in addition to my 4100 also. This reminds me of the colt trim router and upgraded bearing or the your other research into the 4100 bearing. I don't know why people are suggesting you carry a cabinet saw in your truck, its obviously not a solution to anyone's mobile problem. I could see where someone is able to rip what they need for most jobs in the shop prior but i'd bet most people can't. 

I'm getting a little lost in this thread, where are you at with the 4100? Is it giving you acceptable cuts?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Well,....
I don't really think he's expecting those results......not out of a Job site saw, not in comparison,...
But after looking at those examples he threw up,.....

That is absolutely horrible.......

Ive Been thinking about this whole subject....


Yea,..

Your not going to get the same results out of this saw vs a PM 66. This Internet forum conversation can sometimes be taken the wrong way, or just not understood the way it was explained.........


I think TBf is just frustrated with the fact you can't get a decent product anymore............

THAT I agree with, 100%......

Here's my thought on this,...


I see guys spending lots of money on Festool equipment,...and apparently there are a lot of happy customers....why...:blink:...

Well made, engineered to the teeth,....don't get me wrong,,,there are probably +\- to everything.,, but they are very well made and the service is great.....Soooooooo,,.....

I think if they (something other than chicom) made a very well engineered job site saw....somewhere around $1000-1200,....

I bet that we would pay for it,,,,I would...




I can understand the frustration TBF has with the machinery of today,.,,,honestly,...and kudos to you for just trying to get them to wake up,...my hat goes of to you....


Revolting .....I would jump write in.......

I really don't like all the plastic ...in fact I despise it....but I have to tolerate it....just like the rest of us........J


THATS what is the problem......they have marketed us to death,...figured out numbers,...take some anylitical data from surveys and come up with the Low end /high volume machinery they keep coming out with, and it is getting worse by the year.....,,....


Just wanted you to know that I understand where your coming from......

I really am sorry you had so many problems with your new saw....

I can relate exactly to what your saying...

Thier all junk built,marketed and engineered to squeeze out acceptability with the minimum of expense to get a production run...

I'll tell you this,....

If it had more REAL metal..(not white metal).,,better quality,Amercan /canadian/german/swiss made,,,.I definitely would be drawn to what they have to offer.......:thumbsup: 

A change in quality needs to happen,.....


And yes I am hopefull that someday this will happen...:thumbsup:





B,


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

B, I agree completely with you. But guess what it isn't going to happen. I don't use my job site saw to make glue line cuts. For the most part I use it to rough size stock and for free hand scribes...that's it. That's all I need so I'm not spending $1200 for a saw that can do that. They are plastic POS and only worth so much. That is what Ghost does not seem to grasp. 5 years ago cabinet saws where $1,700 clams now we should pay $1,200 for a job site saw?? Come on man...:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm saying something made with some balls,.......

Something very well engineered,.......



I would definitely spill the green inbetween the leather flaps....


Something worth spending the money on....


They all put out the same basic thing,,.....over and over and over.....

For example: why don't they give you a mini Bee'z...:blink:

They could throw the motor directly under the trunnion/dbl belt.....beefy trunnion,,,,

They avoid that by gearing everything up to the arbour shaft..dropping the motor slightly and a screaming rpm to deal with the stuff your going to throw into the teeth.......it's not a true DD...more so a linked DD developed HP to be more precise....


Engineering It correctly can be done.......

Why it is not....:blink:


B,


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Craftmark said:


> You want Powermatic66 results from a plastic table saw. Good luck with that. :blink:


Are you dumb? I want the same results as the 4100 and the DW744. Side note, there is VERY little plasic on this GTS1031, but you wouldn't know that seeing you have never owned one, used one, or even bothered to look at one, yet try and talk like you know something.

One last time, the GTS has play in the arbor that other job-site saws do not...I am not talking about Shop machines...I am comparing apples to apples.


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## swartzj81 (Feb 23, 2010)

I have been planning on buy the baby bosch but now having second thoughts. I have an old delta shopmaster jobsite saw and a crafstman?. the delta has worked great for 8 years. now its starting to wobble and kick itself off. its ready to retire. but it has always performed great with straight cuts and no teeth marks.

any reviews on the Jet jobsite saw?


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

swartzj81 said:


> I have been planning on buy the baby bosch but now having second thoughts. I have an old delta shopmaster jobsite saw and a crafstman?. the delta has worked great for 8 years. now its starting to wobble and kick itself off. its ready to retire. but it has always performed great with straight cuts and no teeth marks.
> 
> any reviews on the Jet jobsite saw?


I would really suggest you look at the DeWalt and Rigid/Craftsman....I still have a voice telling me to go get the Craftsman just to do a side by side test to see if its better....

Anyone local to me with the DW745? I would like to compare the GTS to that and put some photos up...that way anyone on here can make an informed decision if they want either saw....and maybe it will prove me to be crazy....maybe these smaller saws can't do the same as the 4100/DW744 (altho I think it would be a crock of **** if they couldn't)


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> Are you dumb? I want the same results as the 4100 and the DW744. Side note, there is VERY little plasic on this GTS1031, but you wouldn't know that seeing you have never owned one, used one, or even bothered to look at one, yet try and talk like you know something.
> 
> One last time, the GTS has play in the arbor that other job-site saws do not...I am not talking about Shop machines...I am comparing apples to apples.


By your picture...I've been doing this longer than you been walking around on this planet. I've used job site saws before there where job site saws. But you... You are a know it all who knows a whole lot about nothing. Your quest to have shop quality results from a junk saws says all I need to know about you. What a fool you are...no I tried to give you advise but you have had all the answers all the while....but I'm dumb? You're clueless...:laughing:


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

Side note Ghost....why would Bosch and DeWalt produce saws that are half the size as their big brother for less money and still give just as good of a cut???? But I'm dumb???:laughing:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

easy boys we're just talking about table saws:blink:


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## Five Star (Jan 15, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> I would really suggest you look at the DeWalt and Rigid/Craftsman....I still have a voice telling me to go get the Craftsman just to do a side by side test to see if its better....
> 
> Anyone local to me with the DW745? I would like to compare the GTS to that and put some photos up...that way anyone on here can make an informed decision if they want either saw....and maybe it will prove me to be crazy....maybe these smaller saws can't do the same as the 4100/DW744 (altho I think it would be a crock of **** if they couldn't)


I got the dw 745, its been a good little saw for what it is,if you want to put it side by side for pink slips haha let me know we can have a race to the dumpster!


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Craftmark said:


> But I'm dumb???:laughing:


Yup. :thumbsup: Simply b/c your not listening, you still on the shop quality thing when that is clearly not what I am talking about.


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## Brian Peters (Feb 2, 2011)

TBF you may have answered this already but does a different blade make any difference? By the way, I admire your tenacity in trying to find the problem with this saw... I guess I still have faith in Bosch as being a company that wants to produce a good product and surely they will find a way with this saw...


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

I'd just like to thank Tom for putting all this up here... 

I'm pretty sure he knows the difference between a portable and a Unisaw

It has given me a perspective that will help me avoid the same situation. I nearly pulled the trigger on the baby bosch last spring, and am now glad that I didn't

Keep us posted on your quest for a quality job-site saw:thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

I agree,he's the best:thumbup:...[just get the fricken 745]


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## BBuild (Oct 10, 2012)

Brian Peters said:


> TBF you may have answered this already but does a different blade make any difference? By the way, I admire your tenacity in trying to find the problem with this saw... I guess I still have faith in Bosch as being a company that wants to produce a good product and surely they will find a way with this saw...


I've had this saw for over a year and my cuts were very similar to TBF's with the stock blade. You could see the blade flex and distort on start up and wobble on slow down. This saw needs a soft start, it feels like its gonna jump in the air when you start it. After switching the crappy stock blade out for a decent full kerf tenryu my cuts were 10x better. I still get minor blades marks but I find it acceptable. There not great cuts but they're acceptable. A quick swipe with a sharp block plane usually takes care of it. If im doing a lot of ripping on site were the edges are exposed I'll bring my festool planer/jointer or my small bosch router table with a straight bit. Overall i've been fairly happy with the 1031 but I'd rate the portability of the saw much higher than its performance and if it went missing today I would buy another tomorrow. I love the fact I can store it on edge because it takes very little floor space in the van and I occasioanlly stuff it in the trunk of my car for inner city jobs.


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## BBuild (Oct 10, 2012)

This is the blade I should have cleaned a month ago


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Brian Peters said:


> TBF you may have answered this already but does a different blade make any difference? By the way, I admire your tenacity in trying to find the problem with this saw... I guess I still have faith in Bosch as being a company that wants to produce a good product and surely they will find a way with this saw...


Yeah, the stock blade is junk...I have tried a few blades at this point. CMT ITK 50 tooth Combo, its a thin kerf, but I get great cuts with it when its sharp and clean. 60 Tooth Oshlun Full Kerf with a 30 degree ATB grind, I get glass smooth cuts on the miter saws with this... it was the only blade I had on me when the second saw showed. 60 Tooth Avanti Pro...just b/c it is all I had around when the third saw showed up. Finally I just put a new 40 tooth Oshlun Full Kerf on the saw since I have gotten it back.



TimelessQuality said:


> I'd just like to thank Tom for putting all this up here...
> 
> I'm pretty sure he knows the difference between a portable and a Unisaw
> 
> ...


The quest is over for now....Now I just want to cut some wood and build something.



Tom Struble said:


> I agree,he's the best:thumbup:...[just get the fricken 745]


I might end up down that road....I MAY get the DW745 and the Craftsman and do a side by side test....just for ****s and grins. Keep the best for myself and return/sell the rest.



BBuild said:


> If im doing a lot of ripping on site were the edges are exposed I'll bring...my small bosch router table with a straight bit.


:thumbsup: That is a good idea, Maybe I will make a small router table with just a trim router that sits in open spot you get when you extend the table...if it doesn't hit the roll cage.

Could you do me a favor? How square is the fence to the table on your saw? I have not checked this one, but the first two were pretty whacked.... I might have to make an aux fence and shim it square if this one is too.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

If the fence on your table saw is out of wack, there's not a whole lot you can do to make it square. If it bent its one thing, but if it bent that easily, I'd be hesitant to trust it to make anything square. I always use my speed square anyhow. Two seconds for piece of mind.


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## BBuild (Oct 10, 2012)

I'll check my fence with a square in the morning but I know that it is perfectly parallel to the miter slot and I would hope that the slot is square to the table


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

madmax718 said:


> If the fence on your table saw is out of wack, there's not a whole lot you can do to make it square. If it bent its one thing, but if it bent that easily, I'd be hesitant to trust it to make anything square. I always use my speed square anyhow. Two seconds for piece of mind.


Just put a different fence system on it. Choose a TS. choose a fence system, bolt it up.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> I agree,he's the best:thumbup:...[just get the fricken 745]


Why would you want to do that when can have one with a blade wobble and a wonky fence?? What more could you ask for...:blink:


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BBuild said:


> I'll check my fence with a square in the morning but I know that it is perfectly parallel to the miter slot and I would hope that the slot is square to the table


I am asking about square to the table surface. The first two we out of whack. One was canted in and the other was canted out.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

TBFGhost said:


> I am asking about square to the table surface. The first two we out of whack. One was canted in and the other was canted out.


Mine was out when I unboxed it as well. Going by memory here I think it's the two little screws on top of the fence to adjust it. Pretty sure nothing was perfect on mine everything needed adjustment.

Cole


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Cole82 said:


> Mine was out when I unboxed it as well. Going by memory here I think it's the two little screws on top of the fence to adjust it. Pretty sure nothing was perfect on mine everything needed adjustment.
> 
> Cole


Was that to adjust the fence parallel to the miter slots or to make the face of the fence square to the face of the table? If I am not mistaken, those two screws are for parallelism.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

TBFGhost said:


> Was that to adjust the fence parallel to the miter slots or to make the face of the fence square to the face of the table? If I am not mistaken, those two screws are for parallelism.


I don't remember it was well over a year ago I got the saw the first week they came out locally.

And honestly I'm the one that uses most of my tools.:whistling I just seam to be the table saw adjuster guy.

Cole


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## BBuild (Oct 10, 2012)

TBFGhost said:


> I am asking about square to the table surface. The first two we out of whack. One was canted in and the other was canted out.


At the back of the table it is pretty good but the front leans out a little. It's consistent across the table.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Cole82 said:


> I don't remember it was well over a year ago I got the saw the first week they came out locally.
> 
> And honestly I'm _NOT_ the one that uses most of my tools.:whistling I just seam to be the table saw adjuster guy.
> 
> Cole


Woops that is suppose to say NOT the one that uses my tools.

Cole


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

the mini dewalt is the best on the go ts out there..period!
I have 2. 1 is about 5/yrs old and the 2nd is about 2. both are nuts on. light, small easy to get around, accurate, and with plenty of power.

cpo outlets. new or refurb'd. I always teh refub'd from these guys and there always perfect condition. Let' snot forget free s/h both ways. 
http://www.cpopowertools.com/factor...efault,pd.html?start=3&cgid=dewalt-table-saws


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

BBuild said:


> At the back of the table it is pretty good but the front leans out a little. It's consistent across the table.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


add a 1/2" or 3/4 ply to the fence.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

seriously,........

what do you guys expect from the equipment were getting......:blink:

Im not being a dick here.....

but come on.....

how much did it cost you,.....


all im saying is you can only expect so much.....

this thread will never end,,... i keep seeing posts...defective, not square,...blade wobbles.....on & on & on.....


maybe this is just a venting thread...:blink:..I know this much,...
it's going to be very LONG thread....:whistling


B,:laughing:


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

PrestigeR&D said:


> seriously,........
> 
> what do you guys expect from the equipment were getting......:blink:
> 
> ...


im with you 4 once... just trying to be polite...:no::no::no::no::no:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

I just use my rYobi:blink:


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Not having the soft start feature caused me to make a trip to the breaker panel today....first time I ever had that problem...oh well.


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## MKnAs Dad (Mar 20, 2011)

Well I was at a different Menards that had a much older baby Bosch. Nowhere near the play as in the new ones. There was less play in the arbor in the Performax and Rockwell than in the new Bosch.
For a supposed contractor tool company, seems as though they are getting beaten in tolerences by HO grade tools. I wonder ho wthe HF, assuming they have a TS, would compare.


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

PrestigeR&D said:


> seriously,........
> 
> what do you guys expect from the equipment were getting......:blink:
> 
> ...


:clap:...................:laughing:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

http://woodgears.ca/reader/hector/tablesaw.html


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Tom Struble said:


> http://woodgears.ca/reader/hector/tablesaw.html


Pretty impresive


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Thos Canadians have too much time on their hands...


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Went to install the Zero Clearance... Its broken, nothing some glue won't fix. Any suggestions on plastic to metal bonding? Epoxy (I have some JB Quick)


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## Craftmark (Jan 30, 2012)

I gotta give credit for being very patient with that saw. It would have put me over the edge by now. Is it possible to make it out of wood?


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

That is my plan. I bought it for a template to make a wood one, but its not a simple as the 4100 was.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

FYI, you cannot cut 45 degree bevel with that insert...something hits something. I have not investigated what yet.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

You're not suppose to be able to cut a 45 bevel with a zero clearance insert.:whistling


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

I have the Bosch on a Rousseau table that cam with a router table attachment.
I bought the Bosch about 8 years ago after I smoked a Delta benchtop table saw ripping bevels on 6x6 PT posts to install new wooden sills in a brick framed house.


I really like the Bosch.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

TBFGhost said:


> FYI, you cannot cut 45 degree bevel with that insert...something hits something. I have not investigated what yet.


I'm guessing the blade will bind up in the channel for the blade in the plate when moving the blade to a bevel......

if you make one out of hardwood then you can raise the blade through the ZC (taped to the feild table of coarse).....

I did that on my old PM TS


B,


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

tenon0774 said:


> You're not suppose to be able to cut a 45 bevel with a zero clearance insert.:whistling





PrestigeR&D said:


> I'm guessing the blade will bind up in the channel for the blade in the plate when moving the blade to a bevel......
> 
> if you make one out of hardwood then you can raise the blade through the ZC (taped to the feild table of coarse).....
> 
> ...



I made hardwood ones for my 4100 and they worked well. I could bevel cut no problems. 

For this one, it might just be a matter of lowering the blade, turning the saw on, swinging it to bevel 45, cutting the insert as you go and then raising the blade...... I have not investigated it any, I just noticed it the other day.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

TBFGhost said:


> I made hardwood ones for my 4100 and they worked well. I could bevel cut no problems.
> 
> For this one, it might just be a matter of lowering the blade, turning the saw on, swinging it to bevel 45, cutting the insert as you go and then raising the blade...... I have not investigated it any, I just noticed it the other day.


Are you trying to do a zero clearance insert specifically for 45 degrees?


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

PrestigeR&D said:


> seriously,........
> 
> what do you guys expect from the equipment were getting......:blink:
> 
> ...



With the Bosch and a bench top jointer I can produce "furniture grade trim".

Both tools combined cost me less than $600 and they're portable.

"It's not the tool, but the guy driving the wood." :whistling


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

tenon0774 said:


> Are you trying to do a zero clearance insert specifically for 45 degrees?


No

I like to have the zero clearance insert in the saw for thin rips. I hate when I need a sliver of something and it falls down inside the saw b/c of the large clearance on the stock throat plate. I also run stock on edge often, either re-sawing it or putting tapers on it (drip edges, water tables).


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

TBFGhost said:


> No
> 
> I like to have the zero clearance insert in the saw for thin rips. I hate when I need a sliver of something and it falls down inside the saw b/c of the large clearance on the stock throat plate. I also run stock on edge often, either re-sawing it or putting tapers on it (drip edges, water tables).


That's what I thought.


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## David7586 (May 13, 2012)

Hey Ghost,

I'd rather not resurrect an old thread, but I believe this one is still pertinent with all the research/trial&error you did for the baby bosch. 

I just bought the baby bosch via amazon and am not too thrilled with its performance. My craftsman 21829 ::gasp:: (gravity rise stand model similar to bosch 4100) makes glass smooth cuts with a freud blade and has been fine but I'm looking for something more portable. The festool ts55r makes short work of most of my tablesaw needs except for the small stock...

Essentially nothing has changed since you received yours in terms of q/c tolerances. Same slop in the arbor. Ill check my build date and I'm planning to try a nice blade in it, but I think I'll spring for the dewalt. Can't beat how portable the baby Busch is though, being able to store on the side and not worry about bending the fence aka dewalt. 

The cuts from the pics were moments after unboxing. Stock blade with the fence unaligned and slightly out of square. The flash REALLY shows the poor cut quality. 

Again, I know it's a sub-400 dollar saw with portability in mind...but my 300 dollar craftsman makes me feel like I'm a dunce...

I'm most likely getting a dewalt unless someone can explain how to obtain a ts75 cms insert...

Thanks all, just needed to vent and update the state of the baby bosch manufacturing.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Job site saw is....well....just that....:blink: as long as it cuts with out bogging down.....great!:thumbsup: 

But to try and get glue line rips from a JSS is asking a lot (IMO)


Cabinet saws.....completely different animal (if we're talking about well made CS's)



Most of the problem lyes with not maintaining the blade , doesn't matter what saw specifically ....dull blade will cause lots of problems.....


I was ripping some SP and I thought I had a fire in the bowels of my 88D ...:laughing:..........I had some serious buildup since the last sharpening and I really needed to clean the teeth and gullets, and I know better,,,,


JMPO....


B,


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