# bright nails in pressure treated wood (copper)



## forrest1848 (May 1, 2010)

Customer calls for an estimate on tiling work on new construction. Noticed studs and sill plate are pressure treated wood with bright nails holding it all together. (no insulation or drywall yet) I know that bright nails will corrode in PT wood, but also know the sheathing is on and the PT wood will be dry, which should slow down the corrosion process. Should I tell customer that sub needs to come back in and shoot additional galvanized nails in wood?


----------



## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I wouldn't. I understand your concern, but you are not the GC.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Why are the studs pressure treated?? Not all pressure treated wood requires galvanized fasteners anyway. We have a treated here that is Borate treated and can be used on basement walls, without using galvanized fasteners.


----------



## forrest1848 (May 1, 2010)

*well I know I'm not the GC.....but*

I've always had the opinion that you should do things as if you yourself owned the house. I guess my question is not really about the ethics of reporting it...its this: If I were the homeowner, should I be concerned that the framer used bright nails in this application? And if so, what corrective action should be taken?


----------



## forrest1848 (May 1, 2010)

*the wood is copper treated, not borate*

I do know that regular nails are not a concern in borate treated wood...but this is copper treated.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Are you the homeowner?


----------



## forrest1848 (May 1, 2010)

*I'm not the homeowner...*

I am a contractor who will be installing a backer (with corrosion resistant fasteners) into this copper treated wood. The unknown I have is this: the framing onto which I am installing the backer is being held together with bright nails, and I am sure the framer should have used corrosion resistant fasteners (like galvanized nails). If the framing behind my work is defective, it impacts my work. 

But the larger issue is whether someone should shoot additional galvanized fasteners into the rest of the framing, while there is no insulation or drywall yet applied. In that regard, yes, I am placing myself in the shoes of the homeowner. The technical question is this: should the homeowner be concerned that bright nails are being used to fasten together copper containing pressure treated wood, and if so, would the corrective action of shooting in some additional galvanized nails allay the concern?


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Why not just add a few galvanized spikes to the area where you will be working? We have , on occasion, forgotten to load the gun with galvanized and later went back and added the galvanized ones. I have however seen walls that have been nailed without galv fasteners that were still ok after several years. Supposedly the fasteners will corrode over time, but I don't see how adding the new ones would have any adverse effect.


----------



## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

If you are that worried about it, shoot them in yourself.

It's not rocket science.

If you were my sub and came to me moaning about "the other guy" not doing something you are happy with that's this easy to remediate on your own, I'd be aggravated.

No sub of mine would be dumb enough to shoot brights into treated, but that's not that point here.

How many times have I had to move an electrical box over or up two inches because the electrician didn't position it correctly. It's not worth crying over. Just do it.


----------



## dkillianjr (Aug 28, 2006)

If it were me . If I was just coming in to do some tile work, what I would do is probly not say a word about anything. When I installed my backer board I would probly just run a couple toe screws in the studs (ACQ aproved) that my board was on if I was worried about it. That is as long as it would be accesible when I came back. 



Dave


----------



## forrest1848 (May 1, 2010)

*thanks Warren*

That's what I was thinking...its only a 16x24ft 2 story house, and shooting in some additional galvanized nails would seem an economical way to correct the problem, as I would want the building to last more than just a few years if I were in her shoes.


----------



## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Like I said, I understand your concern, but it is not your place to go over the head of the person running the job. Even if it is a HO doing the GC, you had best be careful what you say.

If it is a major concern, then the BI will step in and say something.

Kind of odd that the outside walls are PT.


----------



## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

forrest1848 said:


> its only a 16x24ft 2 story house


That's a topic unto itself!


----------



## forrest1848 (May 1, 2010)

*Just spoke to the homeowner....*

To clear things up, she is the GC, but is 63 with low funds, and basically, I'm ignoring all the political issues (i.e. whether someone would be aggravated) and just concerned with the technical question of compatibility of bright nails with copper treated wood on the inside of a home where it is unlikely to get wet. I have just spoken with her and asked her if I could shoot some additional galvanized nails in all the pressure treated framing, and she said yes.

She stated the reason she used pressure treated wood is that the framer recommended it. I have noticed that some areas have pressure treated wood, while others do not...I have no idea why. The general framing job looks poor to my eye, so I think its a matter of a substandard contractor taking advantage of the situation. Thanks to all.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Greg Di said:


> If you were my sub and came to me moaning about "the other guy" not doing something you are happy with that's this easy to remediate on your own, I'd be aggravated.
> 
> How many times have I had to move an electrical box over or up two inches because the electrician didn't position it correctly. It's not worth crying over. Just do it.


 
:clap::thumbsup:


----------



## CARPENTERDON (Jun 30, 2005)

Frankly, I don't give a royal sh*t who would be aggravated by me bringing it to their attention that the wrong nails were used. If it's wrong, it's wrong and needs to be fixed. . .PERIOD! As the GC I would think that you would want to know that your sub doesn't know what they are doing so that you can bring it to their attention and let them know that it was wrong. It's YOUR job as the GC to know these things.

As the sub who knows that it's wrong and you take it upon yourself to add galv. nails, that's a nice things, but the sub that did it wrong needs to know that you don't use bright nails in copper PT wood, so that it doesn't happen again.

And what is it with people who say that they wouldn't say anything because _"it's not their place"_ or _"it's not my problem"_. What's happened to ethics and integrity. If you know something is wrong and you don't say something to make sure it's corrected, then you are just as duplicitous as the original person.

Those kinds of statements are exactly why there are so many shoddy buildings and homes being built today. Integrity and ethics have gone right out the proverbial window!


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I have to agree with the general thought of a sub whining is BS. But as CARPENTERDON says if something is wrong it should be brought to the attention of the GC. But why didn't the GC catch this? Too much pass the buck now days. There was a thread last week about a bowed CMU block wall. After it was complete the GC found out about it? WTF? Now as Forest says "she is the GC, 63 & low on funds". What the he** qualifies her as the GC? And what does low on funds have to do with it? If you don't know what you're doing and don't have the capital to do it, trying to pretend that you are a GC don't cut it. Now that I have managed to get a few years under my belt my heart has upon occasion has grown soft, for folks that are thinking about projects and ask questions beforehand. But those that try to play GC and get into trouble I have a hard time dealing with.


----------



## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

I can't help but wonder if the 'bright' nails you are referring to may just possibly be stainless steel nails, doubtful of course but still a possibility.
Here in Kalifornia by code we are only to use hot-dipped galvanized or stainless nails when fastening anything into PT.

Andy.


----------



## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

I always tend to run my mouth if I see things that are wrong.

First I go to the guy who did it and see if there is a reason he did it. (I have been known to be wrong and eating crow sucks)

Second, if he fixes things......its over and no one is the wiser. 
But if he gets stupid, then I start to jump the chain.

The higher you take this....the more your ducks had better be in a row.



My philosophy is like a cop friend of mine. I don't look for problems, but when they make themselves known...in my face....I have to respond.

Right is right. Wrong is always wrong.


----------



## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

CARPENTERDON said:


> Frankly, I don't give a royal sh*t who would be aggravated by me bringing it to their attention that the wrong nails were used. If it's wrong, it's wrong and needs to be fixed. . .PERIOD! As the GC I would think that you would want to know that your sub doesn't know what they are doing so that you can bring it to their attention and let them know that it was wrong. It's YOUR job as the GC to know these things.
> 
> As the sub who knows that it's wrong and you take it upon yourself to add galv. nails, that's a nice things, but the sub that did it wrong needs to know that you don't use bright nails in copper PT wood, so that it doesn't happen again.
> 
> ...


You are right. The GC should be on top of these things.

My point is that subs make silly mistakes all the time just because they don't see the big picture.

What bothers me, as a GC, is when I have sub "B" taking more time out my day moaning about sub "A" than it would take to just fix the problem.

I'm not talking about major issues in workmanship. Stupid things.

"Oh...I need a piece of blocking here."

"OK, then instead of taking all this time to CALL me to complain, you could have already installed the blocking and have been done with it."


----------

