# Client wants to hire subcontractor



## Cmpletehomeserv (Jan 12, 2010)

My situation is...

I have a client I did a bathroom remodel for. During so, they asked for a quote from my tile guy about replacing a few broken tiles in the kitchen and the other bath. 

I have a great relationship with my tile guy. Worked together for years etc... This isn't the problem. My problem is, I feel the client is in a way...going behind my back for getting this work done. My tile guy has even said he wouldn't do the job if I objected (which I don't), but I feel I need something written in my contracts that frown upon a client wanting to hire a subcontractor of mine directly while the job I am performing for them is still underway. Does this make sense, or am I overeacting? 

Thanks in advance for any and all input! 

Bob

Complete Home Services


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Unless your subs refuse to do the work I don't see how you can stop this from happening. The tile guy is not your employee so the HO has every right to hire him themselves.

You could always talk to your subs & have them price a job higher if contracted directly through a HO. That way, you could tell the HO if _you_ contract the job, you will pass along the "savings".


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

You absolutely need something in your contract regarding how the HO deals with your subs, employees, materials, equipment, and anything else in between. If there are changes, the HO needs to know who to talk to about them. Additional work outside of the contracted work needs to be addressed. 

What happens if your tile guy ends up running into problems with the client. Like it or not you're in the middle of the situation and you aren't receiving any sort of compensation for it.

I do not like it when a client asks a sub/employee to do something on the side. It get's confronted immediately. The client needs to run that through me, however, I usually let the employee/sub do the work as most cases it's something small enough we don't want to mess with. It's just a matter of respect.


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## Cmpletehomeserv (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks. Yeah, I know I don't really have any power to stop it, I just sorta think it's rude if nothing else for the client to try and hire my guy while the other job we are doing for them is still in progress. 

My tile guy is great though, and said he in no way wants to jeapordize our relationship. I told him not to worry about, but I did express my feelings on the matter that if anything, I am a little perturbed with my client. 

Oh well, things could be worse!  Thanks for the reply! 

Bob


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Yes it _is _rude. But if it's a separate issue/room, I don't see how anything in writing can be enforceable.


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## Kekeever (Nov 17, 2009)

My contract has a clause that prohibits the owner from hiring my subs or any subs for that matter that for any part of the scope of work. If they do they are obligated to pay a mark up on whatever they spend on that sub. What this ends up doing is the owner will come to me first and ask if it is ok to contact one of my subs. I don't think I've ever charged anyone the mark up under that clause but it does seem to keep things out in the open.


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## Fletchman (May 26, 2010)

I would just have my tile guy add in a little kick back for me, finders fee


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

At least around here, if you are the prime contractor and the other contractors are subs to you, then you are the one responsible. 

I am sure you can make a pretty long list of everything that can go wrong if the client wants to deal directly with the subs for other work. 

If you don't want to have a clause in the contract/scope of work with the client concerning subs (who knows, you may feel that this is a negative to the client)---- then have a contract with your subs that clearly states that if the client wants additional work done by the subs, while you are on site and still doing work, then the subs must get approval from you first. 

Have a talk (off site) with the subs going over points like this in your agreement with them. It will avoid confusion and unpleasant or difficult discussions on the site (and hopefully not in front of the client). 

Everything needs to be on the up and up. You really don't want the client having an issue with any of your subs --- cus it will come back to you. And, you need to have full control of the project and know exactly what is going on not just with your work, but the subs too.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Simple, my subs never work directly for my customers, GMOD


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

The OP was contracted to remodel a bathroom to which his tile sub was used. The HO asked the tile guy if he could fix some tiles in a separate room.

Unless the GC has contracts with the subs that state the subs cannot contract with the CG's clients, I don't see how the GC can stop the HO from asking the subs.

Yes, if your subs want future work from you, they won't accept the work without having the GC contract the job or get an OK from the GC first.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

This is what I use:



> "Owner agrees that the direction and supervision of the working forces, including subcontractors, rests exclusively with the Contractor or his duly authorized agent, and Owner agrees not to issue any instructions or to otherwise interfere with same. Owner further agrees not to negotiate for additional work with Contractor’s subcontractors or employees, nor to engage another contractor or subcontractor, except with Contractor’s consent, and in such manner as will not interfere with Contractor’s completion of the work under this contract. "


During the project, it's a major no-no. Afterward, my subs know to ask my permission first--but I usually don't mind.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

During a job of course no way...But after the job is completed? Absolutely.
If I do a room addition for someone and a year later they need some work done on their roof (unrelated to the job I did) they would be a fool to call me for their roof repair.
In this case I would be nothing more than a middle man.

I don't own my sub's and for that matter I don't own the client.


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## RCPainting (Jan 29, 2006)

I think most HO's do not understand the GC/Sub relationship. They see a tile guy and want to ask him about work that you would have no part of, they do no see the issue. 
We get that all the time, the guys always direct the HO to the GC during the job. They may call us later to come back after the GC is done, but we always have the GC's blessing.


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## Santa's Helpers (Jun 12, 2009)

How much different is this than asking your employee for his phone number so they can use him for side work at another time. 
You spend time and money acquiring clients. Are you willing to give that away?


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Santa's Helpers said:


> How much different is this than asking your employee for his phone number so they can use him for side work at another time.
> You spend time and money acquiring clients. Are you willing to give that away?


So once you do a job for a client they are your's for life?No one else can do work for them?:laughing:

Like I and others have said.During a job,of course no way...But after the contract is completed they are fair game...I'm supposed to tell my plumber 
that he can't go unclog a drain at a house that he did work for me at six months prior?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Santa's Helpers said:


> How much different is this than asking your employee for his phone number so they can use him for side work at another time. ........


_Employees_ aren't, as a rule, set up do to the work legally. They typically do not have the licensing, bonding, insurance, WC, etc. to legally engage in the business.


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## Cmpletehomeserv (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks folks... I really appreciate the input. 

I agree that "should something go wrong" with my subcontractor's work on the seperate job (that I have nothing to do with)... in the HO's mind, it would be a reflection on me. I don't like that, cause we all know word of mouth and referals are the absolute best advertising we can get. 

I also like the contractural addendum regarding the HO's relationship with the subcontractors. I am going to add something like that to my proposals. 

One comment was made about hiring the subs after the job was completed for another project. I have absolutely no problem with that. I'm glad to be able to provide my subs with work even when I'm not involved. I think it helps keep good relationships with them and I am fortunate to have very good subcontractors across the board.

I am also still a very much "hands on" contractor being that my company is still small. I do the gutting, most of the framing, a lot of prep work, and the trim carpentry. I even do a little painting and drywall work if it's not to large of a job. As most small contractors know... it's often a fine balance of when to hire a sub and or do it yourself. More often than not though, a sub can do the work in a lot less time than me, is usually just "better at it" also, so the upsides of bringing them in most cases are plenty. I usually sub out drywall, plumbing, electrical, painting (other than small jobs), roofing...you get the picture. 

As for being just the "middle man" on a project... This is maybe touchy.

If a previous client calls and wants the name of my plumber...no problem. Or any other sub I use. SOmetimes though, I think being able to "handle" an individual project for a client creates the "value" in using my company. 

One current example I have is I am replacing a garage door for some folks I have done a good bit of previous work for. Yes, they could have called the garage door people and dealt with them directly, but they called me. I first went to the house to see if I could repair the door. I couldn't. I then spent two hours driving across town to the door people's office and got samples and quotes together for the homeowner and then met the homeowner the same afternoon with different options and prices. Yes, I did mark up the cost to cover my time and expenses, but the HO also has the peace of mind knowing I will make sure this gets done right and we leave the job clean. 

I used to feel slightly "guilty" about being a "middle man" so to speak on a small job or project, but then again, thats what GCs are. The client is paying for our knowledge and our management of the job. 

Anyway, sorry for the long winded reply, but for some strange reason...I sometimes enjoy talking shop long after I'm "done for the day"!  

Thanks again everyone! 

Bob

Complete Home Services


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## Cmpletehomeserv (Jan 12, 2010)

On a side note...

On this particular job, the only item remaining is the custom shower door (to be installed Tuesday). 
Upon giving them a temporary shower curtian and leaving the job site very clean as we finished, my client is thrilled with the work and offered to let me use them as a reference. 

I honestly think they have no idea it's just a little rude if nothing else to negotiate a job with one of my subs while the job I'm still on is in progress. 

Thanks again everyone!

Bob

Complete Home Services


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## ottagosoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Yeas ago one of the box stores had a sub hang a door for one of their customers. The HO asked the sub if he could fix the door on his shed. He worked on it. Then the customer called the box store and said the shed door was not fixed correctly. Box store said not our problem. Customer filed a complainant and the court said it was the Box store problem. Something about the sub was working for the box store and the box store should have told the subs about extra work from their work.:w00t:

Not real sure about all the legal jargon but that's what happen.


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I will not go right to work for a GC's client if asked. I flat out tell the client I cannot do that, for I am biting the hand that feeds me. Usally at that point one of two things happens. The GC subs the job to me, or the GC says go head and take the job, just let me have a kick-back. The GC is happy, the client is happy and I am happy...


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