# huge tile job need bid help



## cynthiann (Feb 12, 2006)

I'm making a bid on 1800 sq. ft. tile job using 12 inch tile on most of it. ...smaller tile in bath. No durock required as it is in basement. I'm thinking $2 sq.ft. but really want to land the job and I'm afraid it's too high.

Any suggestion?


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## floorman (Mar 21, 2005)

what area of the country are you in?I,m in the midwest,st. louis actaully and 2 bucks is about avereage here if not a lil low.
If straight lay and have no other issues like moisture and huge cracks in the slab then 2 is in line i would think no matter what part of the country you are in.
I would be concerened with moisture and cracks,the things that will cause headaches and failure of the floor.
Who is supplying the thin set?them?If not add another dollar a foot to the price,i prefer to use my brand cause i know what it does and dont do,if you what i mean.I use bonsal white.
Hope this helped ya.:no:


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

Floormans right, 2's a little low. Some installers around here try to get 3.50 to 4.00..... freeking crazy maggots.

Bob


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## floorman (Mar 21, 2005)

Yea glass i wont hardly unpack my tools anymore for less than 2.50,however i do what needs to be done the first time so i can get the refferral cause ther is nothing better and more definate in getting a job than someone talking "up" about you:no:


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## R&D Tile (Apr 5, 2005)

I wouldn't touch it for less than $5 a ft., plus any prep work, how much can you set in a day, how many days will this take you including all the grouting, are you working alone?

Thinset alone will be around 400 to $500.


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## ron schenker (Dec 11, 2005)

I charge $5.00/sq.ft. for ceramic and $8.00 for marble, slate, or granite. That includes thinset, grout, and sealer. Subfloor is extra as well as dumping fees . Tearout charges are based on the amount of time that I estimate it will take me, and how much my back will be hurting the next day.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

You guys are actually willing to lay ceramic tile for two bucks a foot???? When will you learn to stop givin your damn labor away? Yes, if your prices are higher you may loose a few here and there but the ones you get will more than outweigh those. Example 1000sf @ 2.00 = $2000 How many jobs/days on average would that take you? Ok now look at this....same $2000 at $3.50sf = 570sf laid. While you are out bustin yer ass to make yours in what, a week, the guy who is priced right can take his time and do a perfect job (which will result in referrals and repeat business) will be done by the middle of the week and either be ready to start another one or able to spend time doing what he wants to do, not what he has to do. Good God this trade needs to get outta the low ball mentality.


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## Dave-Raleigh (Jun 12, 2006)

Only you can figure out what it is worth.

Your profile doesn't mention tiling? Are you experienced?
If not then this is one big first job.

Are you supplying ANY material?
Are you going to machine grout it or do it by hand?
Will you be putting down some kind of isolation barrier to prevent future cracking?
Standard grout, or epoxy grout? 
Sealing tiles/grout, or not?
Can you do LONG, STRAIGHT, grout lines?

How far do you have to haul the tiles and the cleanup mess?
Where will you be cutting the tiles? Up the stairs and outside?
Is the basement 100% empty?

Are there any peculiarities about the tile that will influence how it is installed (vary in thickness/actual size)?
Are you providing a warranty of any kind?
Do you have to pick up the tile at the distributor?
Are you specing how much tile to buy? If so do you have defective/broken tile figured in? What happens if your estimate is short?

If you are bidding 3600$ and it takes two guys a week to do then that's 80 person hours (45$/hr). Can two people do it in a week? 
IS $45/hr within your cost/profit/estimate window? 
Got profit figured in?


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## R&D Tile (Apr 5, 2005)

Dave-Raleigh said:


> Only you can figure out what it is worth.
> 
> Your profile doesn't mention tiling? Are you experienced?
> If not then this is one big first job.
> ...



You left out coffee, breakfast, lunch, dinner and beer.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

PrecisionFloors said:


> You guys are actually willing to lay ceramic tile for two bucks a foot???? When will you learn to stop givin your damn labor away? Yes, if your prices are higher you may loose a few here and there but the ones you get will more than outweigh those. Example 1000sf @ 2.00 = $2000 How many jobs/days on average would that take you? Ok now look at this....same $2000 at $3.50sf = 570sf laid. While you are out bustin yer ass to make yours in what, a week, the guy who is priced right can take his time and do a perfect job (which will result in referrals and repeat business) will be done by the middle of the week and either be ready to start another one or able to spend time doing what he wants to do, not what he has to do. Good God this trade needs to get outta the low ball mentality.


Hot damn! Finally somebody thinks the same way that I do!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Hot damn! Finally somebody thinks the same way that I do!
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I can't afford to double my prices! I'll lose 1/2 my business!!:bangin:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Double-A said:


> I can't afford to double my prices! I'll lose 1/2 my business!!:bangin:


Cut them in half, you'll lose a little on each job, but you'll make up for it in volume!:laughing:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> Cut them in half, you'll lose a little on each job, but you'll make up for it in volume!:laughing:


Frank Blau is my hero. If you ever have a chance to attend one of his seminars, DO IT!

Have you ever heard a 76 year old man call a 58 year old plumber a "Jack Ass?" I have. Then I watched as this person explained exactly why he felt this guy was a jack ass. After listening to for 10 minutes, the guy agreed he was indeed a Jack ass.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Did you do the boot camps or seminars? What did you get out of them?


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Seminars. I got most of my business philosophy from them. Between Uncle Frank, Maurice Maio, Ellen Rohr and Mike Diamond I think I got a PhD in "not going broke while making a living."

Doug Sanders is the one with the answers to the question of "how to sell", rest his soul.

I've just taken what they have to offer, and applied it to contracting. We are nothing more than glorified service companies when you really stop to think about it. The difference is, we install the addition and the bathroom. Not just the new water closet.


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## R&D Tile (Apr 5, 2005)

I just show the customer my book with photos of my work and all the phone #s of the clients in there for references, JOB SOLD, price not an issue, quality sells, I make twice as much as the next guy in less than 1/2 the time, more time for Golf, Tennis and Poker.

Never sell yourself short, I give one price and stick to it.


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## Mbskye (Jul 18, 2006)

Double-A said:


> I can't afford to double my prices! I'll lose 1/2 my business!!:bangin:


Im with ya double, unfortunatly we live in the armpit of america & wages suck around here ( great place to live other than that though ).

I usualy charge $2 a foot, but I have a friend who does nothing but flooring & contracts alot of his work from the suppliers. Hes only getting $1.25 a foot. Just hearing that from him,  me off.

Even the local Lowe's charges $3.85 a foot ( I just wonder where they find people to pay those prices )


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

If the local Lowe's is getting $3.85, then thats what the market will bear....you don't think they picked that number out of thin air do ya? They are selling people on the fact that are a large company that knows what they are doing,(yeah right) and will be around should problems occur. You can market and sell yourself too...look at R&D's post above to get a few great ideas.

I average $3.75sf on ALL products that I install....talk to the majority of the "floor guys" around here and they are still charging by the yard on sheet goods, are well under $2.00 a foot on laminates, and are around $2.50 on pre-finished hardwood ...The difference is I am running a business, they are installing floors.

Set yourself apart....if you price yourself according to what "everybody else is getting" then you are lumping yourself right in with them. The only thing your prospective customer has to make a decision by, is price. Just by charging more, I have had customers ask (it peaks their interest if they are quality driven) "Why do you feel like you are able to charge that much" Hell thats an invite for a close if I ever heard one. Thats your chance to show references, portfolios, manufacturers specs as to why you can't do it as cheap as the last guys estimate, etc., etc. Show that you know what you're doing, in other words. Thats also my opening to ask them if they take their Lexus, Jag, BMW, Volvo (or RV, Boat whatever you saw parked in the driveway) to the cheapest guy in town for service? 99.9% of the time they will say no....Why not?? That's a rhetorical question at that point. There are numerous ways to sell a higher price if you pay attention, and get out of the mentality that you have to be cheap to get business.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

PrecisionFloors said:


> If the local Lowe's is getting $3.85, then thats what the market will bear....you don't think they picked that number out of thin air do ya? They are selling people on the fact that are a large company that knows what they are doing,(yeah right) and will be around should problems occur. You can market and sell yourself too...look at R&D's post above to get a few great ideas.
> .


Yes, exactly!

I always look at the prices that Lowes or HD set as the bottom price not the top. My perception is they are using bottom of the barrel talent, we are at the top. If people are willing to pay $3.85 for Lowes then if they should also be aware that top quality will cost them more.

It's simply the old "You get what you pay for thing."


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

I do the same thing, Mike :thumbup: If the box store can get the prices they do, using unqualified hacks and workrooms using illegals, we should be able to get at least 20% MORE!


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

PrecisionFloors said:


> If the local Lowe's is getting $3.85, then thats what the market will bear....you don't think they picked that number out of thin air do ya? They are selling people on the fact that are a large company that knows what they are doing,(yeah right) and will be around should problems occur. You can market and sell yourself too...look at R&D's post above to get a few great ideas.
> 
> I average $3.75sf on ALL products that I install....talk to the majority of the "floor guys" around here and they are still charging by the yard on sheet goods, are well under $2.00 a foot on laminates, and are around $2.50 on pre-finished hardwood ...The difference is I am running a business, they are installing floors.
> 
> Set yourself apart....if you price yourself according to what "everybody else is getting" then you are lumping yourself right in with them. The only thing your prospective customer has to make a decision by, is price. Just by charging more, I have had customers ask (it peaks their interest if they are quality driven) "Why do you feel like you are able to charge that much" Hell thats an invite for a close if I ever heard one. Thats your chance to show references, portfolios, manufacturers specs as to why you can't do it as cheap as the last guys estimate, etc., etc. Show that you know what you're doing, in other words. Thats also my opening to ask them if they take their Lexus, Jag, BMW, Volvo (or RV, Boat whatever you saw parked in the driveway) to the cheapest guy in town for service? 99.9% of the time they will say no....Why not?? That's a rhetorical question at that point. There are numerous ways to sell a higher price if you pay attention, and get out of the mentality that you have to be cheap to get business.


Precision, I have always wondered how floor guys in our area can stay in business charging $2 a sq. ft. In the slow months, they are all calling me for work. I ask them to have their ins. agent fax their certificates of ins. and they are like what are those?:laughing: 

Glad to hear you are raising the bar.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Yeah, I know what ya mean Gordo. After overhead, labor, taxes, health ins, etc. if your charging $2 a foot, you'd be better off working for someone else. I have looked for tile guys on this side of the water to sub to a few times also...same thing "what do I need insurance for"  I guess thats why all the ones who are squared away and do good work are always too busy to take on my little projects lol.


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## Aragon Tile (Jun 13, 2010)

I agree with R&D and the other guys with some sense. If you bid to low just to get a job, 9 times out of 10 the customer will think you don't know what you are doing oand go the the guy with the portfolio charging $4 - $5 and knows what he is talking about. These customers are investing in their homes and that could be a lifetime. I know I would want the best. Most of the time if you are bidding $2 (even thought the market is the way it is) customers will think you are just trying to make a quick buck at their expense.

I charge $6 per sq. ft. for straight lay including thin set and durrock + a buck more for diagonal due to more cuts. and up it $2 for slate and granite.

Just like what Precision said
"While you are out bustin yer ass to make yours in what, a week, the guy who is priced right can take his time and do a perfect job (which will result in referrals and repeat business)"


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

This thread is 4 years old.


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