# 5 coats of new paint peeled right off wall



## 18delta (Dec 25, 2015)

Greetings, so I'm new to the forum but have a pressing issue so I'll get right to it. I came in on a bathroom remodel to do the painting after the tile guys, plumber and plaster/drywall guy all finished up. Bathroom was originally painted a brown color (latex, note this as is key to diagnosing the issue) and was going to be painted a light gray. The old vanity was ripped out as well as 2 large mirrors on the wall. The plaster guy came through and patched up where the mirror mastic tore out some of the drywall and there was also some wallpaper behind SOME parts of the mirror, not all. There was also some residual glue that they sanded down and then looks like put a skim coat over. All things considered the areas under the mirrors and where the vanity sat looked like raw plaster. I came in and rolled on the paint the customer purchased at HD. Its a latex, glidden p&p in one color is grey. The other three walls took two coats without priming and had zero issues. Yesterday I painted two coats on the wall where the mirrors and old vanity were and had some issues. First, after two coats you could clearly see where the old mirrors and vanity were (flashing?). The paint appeared darker in these places and there was a distinctive outline. I will attach pictures at the end here. So, I told the homeowner, we'd roll out the entire wall with a primer and recoat the whole thing. Keep in mind the other three walls were fine. Rolled out two coats over the primer (let the primer dry for about 1.5hrs prior). Everything is looking good. I'm getting cleaned up, preparing to set a toilet. I leave to go grab the new toilet, come back into the bathroom and I notice blisters or bubbles forming in the upper left-hand quadrant of the final wall. I take my flat razor/scraper to zip the top off the blister and within minutes I've got a section that's about 24" diameter that has completely peeled away down to the original paint. I take out my putty knife and it just keeps peeling away. 5 coats of paint peels all the way down to the plaster and the original paint. I've done quite a bit of painting but I'm not a pro. But the only time I've seen this is with latex top coat over oil. But, this is latex over latex and latex over some plaster repair.SO, my questions are this:

1) what is the most likely cause of 85% of my paint not adhering? Dust on the walls? Something the plaster guy did? Bad paint? Bad prep? No primer over the plaster repairs? Some of it did stick a bit on this wall and the other 3 walls are fine (at least they were when I left this afternoon). The wall prep was supposed to be done by the plaster guy. I.e. all I was hired to do was come in and put paint on the wall primarily because the plaster guy was already there, no sense in paying twice for the wall to be prepped twice. 

2) What is the best way to fix the issue as I do have some paint on the wall that has bonded ok, but will leave a difference in height where the paint stopped peeling at the edges. Should I try and peel all of the paint of this wall? Would coating the whole wall with a high build primer even out the edges where the original paint is left and the little bit of new paint stuck? Perhaps some of that Zinsser peel-stop paint? 

A buddy of mine suggested that the plaster repair or very light skim coat must not have been dry before the first coat went on that particular wall. I did notice that when I peeled the paint off the places where the plaster/drywall was raw had a wet dusty feel to it that wasn't there when I applied the first coat. Almost as if the paint drew it out. Also, the residual glue from the wall paper had gummed up again where prior to painting it had been sanded down and skimmed over. So, it was smoothed out.


Any info, suggestions, insight would be appreciated.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Kilz !


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I would wager they used hot mud. I have had issues with hot mud and peeling paint. I now skim with a top coat mud and have not had an issue since. 

It could also be sanding dust. I also now microfiber the walls before priming.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I would wager they used hot mud. I have had issues with hot mud and peeling paint. I now skim with a top coat mud and have not had an issue since.
> 
> It could also be sanding dust. I also now microfiber the walls before priming.


Was the issue with the hot mud ...Or the hot mud still being wet /not cure? 


btw I hate hot mud!


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## 18delta (Dec 25, 2015)

blacktop said:


> Kilz !


After the first two coats left that outline of the mirrors that were taken down (seen in Image 1 and 4) I applied a coat of kills latex 2. Then applied two additional top coats of the grey. It all came off right down to where I started. How can I fix this and deal with the edges of the paint that did manage to adhere. You can see in image 3 I did a quick roll over the edge of a section that stuck, but there is a stark difference in the thickness.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I'll tell you something else that has a poor bond to a painted surface. Is the Light weight compounds . It has a very poor bond to any surface .


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## 18delta (Dec 25, 2015)

blacktop said:


> Was the issue with the hot mud ...Or the hot mud still being wet /not cure?
> 
> 
> btw I hate hot mud!


The day the plaster guy finished (This past Tuesday at 1030hrs) he said it was ready for paint that afternoon. I got there at 1230 hrs to begin painting and everything was dry. Its not as though they put a thick layer of mud on the wall. It felt dry and chalky. However, I did not prime the areas that they had skimmed, so it was almost raw plaster or drywall. Also of note, I'm not sure if the just used joint compound to do the repairs or actual plaster.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

blacktop said:


> Was the issue with the hot mud ...Or the hot mud still being wet /not cure?
> 
> 
> btw I hate hot mud!


I think it had to do with your point in another thread. It is almost like the moisture in the paint reactivates it or its not fully bonded to the substrate abd lifts of as it swells.

For some reason the topping compound stops the reaction.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

blacktop said:


> I'll tell you something else that has a poor bond to a painted surface. Is the Light weight compounds . It has a very poor bond to any surface .


I stopped using light weight a long time ago. Not enough glue in it.


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## 18delta (Dec 25, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I think it had to do with your point in another thread. It is almost like the moisture in the paint reactivates it or its not fully bonded to the substrate abd lifts of as it swells.
> 
> For some reason the topping compound stops the reaction.


Any suggestions on how to fix this? Should I try and peel all of the remaining new paint off the wall, even that which has adhered? Prime the whole wall with and oil based primer, then recoat? What do you suggest?


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

You should always prime patching compound especially if you don't know what was used. Did you test if indeed the existing paint wasn't oil? Kilz 2 is crap and probably the Glidden also.

At this point I'd switch to Cover Stain, prime the whole wall, skim where the paint peeled then prime where skimmed.


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## 18delta (Dec 25, 2015)

avenge said:


> You should always prime patching compound especially if you don't know what was used. Did you test if indeed the existing paint wasn't oil? Kilz 2 is crap and probably the Glidden also.
> 
> At this point I'd switch to Cover Stain, prime the whole wall, skim where the paint peeled then prime where skimmed.


I'm realizing the Glidden is ****. I saw some videos on you tube of the same issue I'm having on a larger scale. I did not test to see if the original was indeed latex and not oil, BUT the other three walls I painted (that the plaster guy didn't work on) took two coats of the same paint, without using an independent primer, and have had no issues. Some of the other folks I've spoken to seem to think the issue lies in the plaster i.e. it wasn't ready when the first coat went on as EVERY single coat came off. So they speculated that the plaster wasn't dry or something had seriously interfered with adhesion; maybe dust or something. As you can see from the pictures the bulk of the paint that peeled away was directly in the area that was raw wall board or that which was repaired with a quick skim coat. What I'm really concerned with now is correcting the issue, particularly the fact that I've got 2 layers of paint in some areas that adhered which has created a thickness issue that I'm not sure how to correct. Someone suggested I use a triple thick primer to build up the difference or possibly use a high build primer. Neither of which I have ever worked with before.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

18delta said:


> I'm realizing the Glidden is ****. I saw some videos on you tube of the same issue I'm having on a larger scale. I did not test to see if the original was indeed latex and not oil, BUT the other three walls I painted (that the plaster guy didn't work on) took two coats of the same paint, without using an independent primer, and have had no issues. Some of the other folks I've spoken to seem to think the issue lies in the plaster i.e. it wasn't ready when the first coat went on as EVERY single coat came off. So they speculated that the plaster wasn't dry or something had seriously interfered with adhesion; maybe dust or something. As you can see from the pictures the bulk of the paint that peeled away was directly in the area that was raw wall board or that which was repaired with a quick skim coat. What I'm really concerned with now is correcting the issue, particularly the fact that I've got 2 layers of paint in some areas that adhered which has created a thickness issue that I'm not sure how to correct. Someone suggested I use a triple thick primer to build up the difference or possibly use a high build primer. Neither of which I have ever worked with before.


Just like they taught us in English class please use the return key to create sine paragraph breaks. It's just easier for your audience.

As for your question, you need to skin the lower areas to plane with the painted areas.


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## 18delta (Dec 25, 2015)

avenge said:


> You should always prime patching compound especially if you don't know what was used. Did you test if indeed the existing paint wasn't oil? Kilz 2 is crap and probably the Glidden also.
> 
> At this point I'd switch to Cover Stain, prime the whole wall, skim where the paint peeled then prime where skimmed.


Skim where the paint peeled- so just feather it in with some compound? For the cover stain are you suggesting something like Zinsser; oil-based...?


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## 18delta (Dec 25, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Just like they taught us in English class please use the return key to create sine paragraph breaks. It's just easier for your audience.


My apologies. Will do.


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## STMN (Dec 23, 2015)

18delta said:


> The day the plaster guy finished (This past Tuesday at 1030hrs) he said it was ready for paint that afternoon. I got there at 1230 hrs to begin painting and everything was dry. Its not as though they put a thick layer of mud on the wall. It felt dry and chalky. However,* I did not prime the areas that they had skimmed*, so it was almost raw plaster or drywall. Also of note, I'm not sure if the just used joint compound to do the repairs or actual plaster.


perhaps?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

18delta said:


> My apologies. Will do.


I heard every word you said! TNT's grammar ain't the greatest either ! don't let him fool ya!!! :laughing:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

18delta said:


> Skim where the paint peeled- so just feather it in with some compound? For the cover stain are you suggesting something like Zinsser; oil-based...?


Yes and yes Zinsser Cover Stain usually available at HD.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

blacktop said:


> I heard every word you said! TNT's grammar ain't the greatest either ! don't let him fool ya!!! :laughing:


Especially in the AM when I'm typing on my phone. The chit I've said I could even decipher.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Raw plaster wont take latex paint, if it was truly raw plaster.

Had a plaster job looking good one day, rolled on my acropure miller no voc paint. Looks great. Walk out of the room, walk back in and it looked like the wall was hit with mustard gas; blisters everywhere.

Skim, sand, oil or shellac prime and repaint.

These are the things that I hate about painting. You do a 150 or 200 dollar job. If it goes right you do ok, if it gets weird youre an idiot and you spend three days to make 40 bucks after you pay for materials and gas. Seemed like it 'got weird' more often than not.


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