# Communications Estimating



## giddonah (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm trying to figure out what someone might charge to install ethernet/cable/phone in new construction. Do they charge by the hour? by the connection? By the job? And most importantly, what rates?

I'd call someone if I knew, but I don't see many people installing ethernet in homes. Plus, everyone always just says "well, it depends on how much I can get out of you", or something close to it  . Anyone have any numbers I can contemplate?


----------



## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

Yeah isnt is like $300 a foot or something like that?  :cheesygri


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

According to ol'#2, communications consultant, it goes like this.
Up to 100 ft. run.
Cat 3 (phones) $90.00
Cat 5 (puter) $100.00
Dual run, $158.00
Over 100 ft. = T&M.

I'm seeing ethernet in almost all of the new homes, many of the higher end ones also have multiline phone systems and dedicated fax lines.


----------



## giddonah (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks Teetor.

Cole, how about I come install some lines in your homes then  :cheesygri I can be there in 24hrs. 

Oh yeah, and you can let me drive your car too


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

gidonah - call the phone company or an electrician and see if they'll give you a quote to do it. At least then you'll have a good idea of the local market. I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a cable today.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Teetorbilt... are people still running cat3 much? I've been running Cat 5 for everything for a few years now. The price for a 1000' box isn't much different anymore between 3 and 5. Maybe I should re-evaluate my price, since I'm at 50 bucks a hole for new construction for voice or data or catv. I _think_ I make money at that. It's only the occasional house that the low voltage home runs are greater than 100', so I really don't adjust for length.


----------



## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

I knew a chic who adjusted for length.

Bob


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I can't speak for Teetor or where he is at, but I can speak for certain that Cat 3 is out for phones around here. It is all Cat 5 for phones. It's all about extra phone line capacity, the Cat 3 and the Cat 5 fill the same hole but the Cat 5 allows for more flexibility later.

Anybody still see them running Fiber optic? I think it is a dead concept that didn't make it. For awhile I was seeing the typical load being (4) cat5's, 2 RG6 quad shielded coax's and one fiber optic line, now I think the fiber is dropped.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> Anybody still see them running Fiber optic? I think it is a dead concept that didn't make it. For awhile I was seeing the typical load being (4) cat5's, 2 RG6 quad shielded coax's and one fiber optic line, now I think the fiber is dropped.


I sort of do wish that it did catch on, especially since I took time out a few years ago to attend a workshop to learn how to terminate the fiber and invested in tooling and such. I've installed a little... but very little. I think that the consumer products havn't really been available to most people to utilize or demand fiber in the house. If places like Circuit City and Best Buy started selling stuff for the home that could use the fiber, demand would go up. In some new areas, the phone company has "fiber to the curb", but turns immediately into copper to serve the house. I'm not so sure I know what the idea is behind that.


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

This is way out of my field of expertise. Ol'#2 does it every day, hospitals, Hospice, busineses, schools and high end homes. I just parroted what she told me. The fact that she mentioned Cat 3's must mean that they are still being installed.
Many of the newer systems packet the info which allows for more of it to be carried on a single line. I read her geek mags and understand how it works even if the verbage is incorrect.
I kinda 'robbed the cradle' the second time around, she's not close to my age.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Gidd, I am surprised you say you don't see networks being installed. Every new house I do gets phone & catv in every BR and several others around the house. Most new homes are doing network as well. The price difference is minimal to add another cat 5. 

Many computer firms around here are getting $125 a run for all three (2- cat5, 1-RG6). Most electricians are getting less. 
I will get $75-$100 per hole for all three. Long runs are adjusted higher. These numbers include cabling from a patch panel location (panel extra) to a complete tested finished plate.


Hey Mark (mdshunk), how are ya?


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Let me assure you that fiber optic is far from dead. The fact is that is that now it's TOO capable for average use and most manufacturers of equipment have figured out ways to deal with wired systems for the time being.
My prediction is that 5-10 yrs. from now hard wires will be obsolete, unable to transfer enough data.
I have already wired 2 homes with FO.


----------



## giddonah (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm a little aprehensive about approaching the GC's around here since there's no way to tell if they're insane or not. I don't want to piss off the wrong guy. I know a guy building a house who I'm going to try to use as a paying guinea pig to judge my estimate, but he's not even breaking ground yet. The problem in my area of NY is that people don't use computers as much as some other areas. Or probably even know what they are. I'm not even that far from the city (Orange County Choppers is 20 min away). I'm thinking I can still make money within a 2hr driving radius though. I just need to get one house done to confirm my estimate. Anyone building in the NY/NJ/CT area want a deal on a wiring job?  

For $300/hr though, I can be convinced to drive to Dallas :cheesygri


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Most of the old folks have moved down here, I deal with them daily. The ones that are into computers take classes and futz with the things all day. Many of them know more that I do, not that it's a stretch.
A 2 hr. radius? It sure IS different up north. I use a 15 min. radius as a NC zone.
7 more years to Costa Rica, no hurricanes, no cell phones, no computers.


----------



## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

*I thought that is called home running in new construction. Meaning a electric contractor who will install everything hightech thing on the market. Also this is really Important. When ever they do that type of hightech wiring on this old house they always put some like small empty pvc pipes throught the system to take care of any new future technology which comes out. Meaning you can just simply run it threw those empty pvc pipes because they were thinking for the future when they installed the system. The bottom line is this the electric contractor on this old house installed a awesome wireless computer system on there last project. Not there current project not sure what there going to do there. But I'm watching that project or recording it when not home. They really haven't got to the hightech stuff in wiring yet. :Thumbs: :Thumbs:*


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Gidd, I am near Kingston, and every house has at least one computer around here. In fact many, if not most have several, networked with broadband. I have four myself. 
There is also the small to medium commercial applications to consider. Most all stores/places have some kind of network. Larger stores all have firms they use on all new construction so every store is identical. 

I feel wireless is not the best answer for suburban/urban settings. The average joe is not up on encription and security. I have heard stories of guys "war driving" around with laptops looking for wireless networks to log into. 

I find it hard to believe that down in Sullivan (?) it is that much different. 

I think I mis-read your original post. I thought you were thinking of having this done. Now I assume you are wanting to do this as a contractor? IMO I say go for it. There IS the demand, if not you make the demand happen. 
Go to every electrical and general contractor you can find and give them your proposal.:Thumbs: 
Just stay down there! :cheesygri:cheesygri


----------



## giddonah (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks for the support Petey. No, I'm in Orange too. I'm glad to hear it's being done. My friend likes to ground me when I talk about big things, but sometimes I feel he grounds me too much. If I don't have to drive long distances to find work, then that's awesome. Got any leads in Kingston?  

I've been looking at leviton's offerings. I find it all way overpriced. How do people do it now? I'm thinking of building my own cabinet. If there isn't a code for this, then I'll be able to build something much more practical than leviton's offerings at half the cost. I could call the building inspector, but that would be a lot of inspectors.

Petey, I just noticed you're an electrician, how do they handle it in orange?


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Giddonah... I say build your own panels. This is the only way to get what you want in my opinion. Often my panel isn't enven a panel per se. It's more of a backboard arrangement when space permits. The Leviton and Square D systems are nice, but you're right about the price. A Leviton "system" punch down blocks is like 75 bucks. A normal Suttle punch down block is 5 bucks. Co-ax splitters and amps are much cheaper too if you use normal stuff rather than system stuff. The only drawback is that you can't shoe-horn it in as small of a space as the "systems".


----------



## giddonah (Mar 3, 2005)

Thanks for your support on that. I'm thinking of offering it both ways, or somewhere inbetween depending on how nice they want it to look $$. I think I can get away with using an empty panel and modifying things to fit. It won't look as nice, but it won't matter much when the door is closed  If they want it Uber cheap, it'll just be all mounted on plywood, but for what a whole house install would cost, that won't make much of a dent in the cost. It would on really small installs though.

I think the next step is to just get some work :Thumbs:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Gidd, 
I am pretty much right there with mdshunk. The higher end jobs get the Leviton system while most places get an extra large panel backboard with everything on that. 
I have done whole networks next to a 200 amp panel; modem, router, CATV, phone board...everything.

Oh, I am in Ulster county. About an hour or so NE of you.


----------



## giddonah (Mar 3, 2005)

Networking right next to a 200amp panel?  
I'd figure you'd want to stay as far away from that thing as possible. Parallel lines aren't even supposed to be within 18". I guess with everything in metal boxes that would reduce the emf, but you still have a lot of wires coming out of the boxes. I guess if that works, then that's cool. I guess there's a little more leeway with that than I've read. I'm not going to push it though


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Well, not literally right next to. 
If I know I am doing the whole smash I will use at least a 4'x4' board. I like to use a full sheet of plywood and keep the service on one half and the data/com on the other. Depends on the space restraints.


----------



## boogie (Jul 30, 2004)

on average i usually charge $75 per run phone or catv includes wire and plate coming to $150 for both. if a network cable is added i usually throw in for $50 more . cat 5 for all phones and network . its not cost effectiveto stock both .shorter run balance out the longer ones no need for lenght adjustments. patch panels and such are figured seperate depends on the complexity of system.most of the time it is mounted by the panel ,just put a larger plywood backboard up.personally i like no box or the such it makes the system more flexible and easier to work on

fiber is not dying it is mainly used for long haul transmisions and risers .the main downfall of it for end user applications is the equipment,just too expensive for in home use.


----------



## giddonah (Mar 3, 2005)

Nice, this thread just keeps on truckin'.

I would prefer an open install too, but that's probably because I find that kind of thing cool. Wow, you get $200/run for all three? Is that new construction? With a number like that, I'll be able to afford a helper. That would be something. :cheesygri


----------

