# A friend learned the expensive way



## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Friend installs a 200 amp underground service with pedestal for a friend of his that he used to work with. From there it went about 200' through the woods to another 100amp sub panel that a mobile home was to be connected to. Now this project has been all summer long and during this time the owner has lost this future home and property to his now ex-wife so the owner just wants to get things turned on when the home arrives and be done per their divorce agreement. So this mobile home arrives and is set, my friend goes over and wires it in. He calls me asking to come look at it as he has light bulbs popping, tv's are burned up, fridge burned up and who knows what else is wrong. I tell him to check his neutral and claims it is fine but he keeps getting odd voltages, surges and he has power between the ground buss and neutral buss. I am like WTF has he done??? So i go over and meet him, start checking from the meter back. I get into the house and i find he had put the neutral on the ground buss but no bond screw. Also the panel was not grounded. So i had to explain to him that this is a sub panel and the grounds/neutrals are to be separated and he needs to run 4 wire from the outdoor sub panel in to the mobile home. I also explained that doing what he did he created a circuit between phases creating the surge of power burning up whatever appliances/devices that were on. It took me quite some time to explain the difference between the use of 3-wire and 4-wire, when and where they are to be used and even why. 

I still do not think he grasped it all. This guy has been building homes for yrs, does great electric work himself when wiring a home, knows everything about building a home from cutting the 1st tree to cleaning the last window when finished. He worked for a wealthy man for 27yrs doing all his bidding but finally quit to work for himself and this is one of his 1st job he took on and finished. I just hope he has insurance because the owners ex-wife is after both of them for the cost to replace everything that burned up. Not a good way to start your own business.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

He sure did. Don't they inspect the service entrance around there? I wired my own mobile home once and had to have it inspected and signed off before they would energize it.


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## maninthesea (Nov 11, 2008)

so as I picture it- What he had in the Mobil home was two hots with no neutral and the ground loosely connected to neutral. Voltage would vary on the 120circuts as the balance of the load shifted such that the circuit with the higher load got the lower voltage? 

If the motor home ground and neutral were all tightly bonded to the outdoor sub panel neutral would he have solid steady voltages without proper safe grounding? In other words would have functioned without being safe or legal? Or would local grounding rod be required to anchor the neutral in the middle of the 240?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

His biggest mistake was that he assured himself that it was "fine" when every other indication showed that it wasn't. 

It's like every time a friend or family member calls me up with a problem, I know EXACTLY what they did wrong and they swear up and down that they did it right. Then when I get over there, it's exactly as I thought it was. 

I'm at the point now where I just say, "I'll be right over." because I'll have to go over there anyway after spending an hour talking them through it.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

A ground rod would not help at all.

Grounding electrodes and grounding conductors are two totally separate animals. They are not interchangeable.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

woodchuck2 said:


> This guy has been building homes for yrs, does great electric work himself when wiring a home, *knows everything about building a home from cutting the 1st tree to cleaning the last window* when finished.


Obviously not. :whistling:

Even residential electrical work is far more than wiring receptacles and lights.

NO ONE can be a pro at everything involved with building a house. Some things are better left to the professionals in their respective trades, regardless of how good someone _thinks_ they are.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> Obviously not. :whistling:
> 
> Even residential electrical work is far more than wiring receptacles and lights.
> 
> NO ONE can be a pro at everything involved with building a house. Some things are better left to the professionals in their respective trades, regardless of how good someone _thinks_ they are.



Unless you're a 12-year-old 'of limited mental capacity'. :whistling


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Just curious what you mean by pedestal. A utility pedestal, a 200 amp panel, or a disconnect after a meter? Is the meter on the mobile home or at the road? Curious for my own knowledge if that changes the need from 3 wire to 4 wire? Around my area only three wire would be ran from a pedestal with a separate grounding rod at the meter location. Our utility company grounds their neutral at the transformer and doesn't require to separate grounds and neutrals in the panel.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

overanalyze said:


> Just curious what you mean by pedestal. A utility pedestal, a 200 amp panel, or a disconnect after a meter? ........


Short answer: Any of the above.

A pedestal is basically any version of an above-ground splice/junction box. It may or may not have a meter, or a disconnect, or fuses, or other manner of electrical apparatus attached to it.

It may be owned by the utility, political subdivision (city, county, etc.) or the property owner.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

woodchuck2 said:


> Friend installs a 200 amp underground service with pedestal for a friend of his that he used to work with. From there it went about 200' through the woods to another 100amp sub panel that a mobile home was to be connected to. Now this project has been all summer long and during this time the owner has lost this future home and property to his now ex-wife so the owner just wants to get things turned on when the home arrives and be done per their divorce agreement. So this mobile home arrives and is set, my friend goes over and wires it in. He calls me asking to come look at it as he has light bulbs popping, tv's are burned up, fridge burned up and who knows what else is wrong. I tell him to check his neutral and claims it is fine but he keeps getting odd voltages, surges and he has power between the ground buss and neutral buss. I am like WTF has he done??? So i go over and meet him, start checking from the meter back. I get into the house and i find he had put the neutral on the ground buss but no bond screw. Also the panel was not grounded. So i had to explain to him that this is a sub panel and the grounds/neutrals are to be separated and he needs to run 4 wire from the outdoor sub panel in to the mobile home. I also explained that doing what he did he created a circuit between phases creating the surge of power burning up whatever appliances/devices that were on. It took me quite some time to explain the difference between the use of 3-wire and 4-wire, when and where they are to be used and even why.
> 
> I still do not think he grasped it all. This guy has been building homes for yrs, does great electric work himself when wiring a home, knows everything about building a home from cutting the 1st tree to cleaning the last window when finished. He worked for a wealthy man for 27yrs doing all his bidding but finally quit to work for himself and this is one of his 1st job he took on and finished. I just hope he has insurance because the owners ex-wife is after both of them for the cost to replace everything that burned up. Not a good way to start your own business.


Woodchuck..... Interesting....but had a little confusion understanding what was connected to what....

Does this not just reduce to he had a broken (never connected) neutral in his service feed to the mobile home (or subpanel in this case).

Thanks...Peter


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Short answer: Any of the above.
> 
> A pedestal is basically any version of an above-ground splice/junction box. It may or may not have a meter, or a disconnect, or fuses, or other manner of electrical apparatus attached to it.
> 
> It may be owned by the utility, political subdivision (city, county, etc.) or the property owner.


Ok. Why would some utility companies require 4 wire from a pedestal and some 3? If a ground is provided at the pedestal and the panel what's the need for 4 wire?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

overanalyze said:


> Ok. Why would some utility companies require 4 wire from a pedestal and some 3? If a ground is provided at the pedestal and the panel what's the need for 4 wire?


Basic rule: Past the 'first point of disconnect' (main fuse or breaker), the ground and neutral must be kept separate.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Basic rule: Past the 'first point of disconnect' (main fuse or breaker), the ground and neutral must be kept separate.


Gotcha...so after a fused/breakered disconnect. But if the utility pedestal is just a non-breakered junction for the utility company, that's why it's a 3 wire. Thanks!


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

overanalyze said:


> Gotcha...so after a fused/breakered disconnect. But if the utility pedestal is just a non-breakered junction for the utility company, that's why it's a 3 wire. Thanks!


I think it depends where you are. The electric panel for my mobile home had to have the equipment ground and neutral separated in the panel. Even though it was coming straight from the transformer not from another panel. The electrical inspector explained to me why but I didn't really follow.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I think it depends where you are. The electric panel for my mobile home had to have the* equipment ground and neutral separated in the panel. *Even though it was coming straight from the transformer not from another panel. The electrical inspector explained to me why but I didn't really follow.


I assume you are saying the neutral was floated out of the main......not just the BI wanted grounds and neutrals on different bars.

Kenn.... So where was the EGC going to...... 

are you sure the neutral and egc were not bonded at the meter box.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I think it depends where you are. The electric panel for my mobile home had to have the equipment ground and neutral separated in the panel. Even though it was coming straight from the transformer not from another panel. The electrical inspector explained to me why but I didn't really follow.



No meter?

Is there fuses or a disco at the meter?


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

So just out of curiosity (and if I'm following the explanation correctly) what happens if both the pedestal and sub panel is grounded, and only 3 wire used from pedestal to sub panel? I recall hooking up a 220 compressor that had 3 wire. Essentially 2 hots and a ground(?) How is that any different than the situation described?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Kent Whitten said:


> So just out of curiosity (and if I'm following the explanation correctly) what happens if both the pedestal and sub panel is grounded, and only 3 wire used from pedestal to sub panel? I recall hooking up a 220 compressor that had 3 wire. Essentially 2 hots and a ground(?) How is that any different than the situation described?



The house needs a neutral (intended to carry current under normal use) in order to get 120v. Your 220v compressor doesn't need a neutral, just a ground.


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## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

220v switches between positive and negative 60 times a second or so, so one leg will be the neutral and then the other leg will be neutral. That's why it doesn't need a separate neutral. But some appliances like stoves need a neutral also (4 wire) cause the clock runs on 110v (one leg of 220v)


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

tyb525 said:


> 220v switches between positive and negative 60 times a second or so,...


120 times, not 60. And 110v does the same thing. So does 208 volts, 277 volts, 480 volts.......




tyb525 said:


> ..........so one leg will be the neutral and then the other leg will be neutral....


:laughing: Um,* no*.




tyb525 said:


> That's why it doesn't need a separate neutral.


Now I've heard _everything!_ 




tyb525 said:


> .....But some appliances like stoves need a neutral also (4 wire) cause the clock runs on 110v (one leg of 220v)


Well, 1 out of four ain't bad.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

woodchuck2 said:


> Friend installs a 200 amp underground service with pedestal for a friend of his that he used to work with. From there it went about 200' through the woods to another 100amp sub panel that a mobile home was to be connected to. Now this project has been all summer long and during this time the owner has lost this future home and property to his now ex-wife so the owner just wants to get things turned on when the home arrives and be done per their divorce agreement. So this mobile home arrives and is set, my friend goes over and wires it in. He calls me asking to come look at it as he has light bulbs popping, tv's are burned up, fridge burned up and who knows what else is wrong. I tell him to check his neutral and claims it is fine but he keeps getting odd voltages, surges and he has power between the ground buss and neutral buss. I am like WTF has he done??? So i go over and meet him, start checking from the meter back. I get into the house and i find he had put the neutral on the ground buss but no bond screw. Also the panel was not grounded. So i had to explain to him that this is a sub panel and the grounds/neutrals are to be separated and he needs to run 4 wire from the outdoor sub panel in to the mobile home. I also explained that doing what he did he created a circuit between phases creating the surge of power burning up whatever appliances/devices that were on. It took me quite some time to explain the difference between the use of 3-wire and 4-wire, when and where they are to be used and even why.
> 
> I still do not think he grasped it all. This guy has been building homes for yrs, does great electric work himself when wiring a home, knows everything about building a home from cutting the 1st tree to cleaning the last window when finished. He worked for a wealthy man for 27yrs doing all his bidding but finally quit to work for himself and this is one of his 1st job he took on and finished. I just hope he has insurance because the owners ex-wife is after both of them for the cost to replace everything that burned up. Not a good way to start your own business.





MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Woodchuck..... Interesting....but had a little confusion understanding what was connected to what....
> 
> Does this not just reduce to he had a broken (never connected) neutral in his service feed to the mobile home (or subpanel in this case).
> 
> Thanks...Peter



480 Ken..... Am I basically understanding the OP's situation correctly.

TIA

Peter


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## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

480sparky said:


> 120 times, not 60. And 110v does the same thing. So does 208 volts, 277 volts, 480 volts.......
> 
> :laughing: Um, no.
> 
> ...


60hz means it switches 60 times a second. If one leg of 220 wasnt neutral at some point it wouldn't work. It'd be like trying to run a 120v motor with only a black wire.

I understand you don't get this, a lot of "sparkies" don't.


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## maninthesea (Nov 11, 2008)

480sparky said:


> A ground rod would not help at all.
> 
> Grounding electrodes and grounding conductors are two totally separate animals. They are not interchangeable.


excuse my stupidity. I thought the "ground" at the distribution panel was connected to a rod driven into the ground outside the house and also bonded to the neutral there. Here we have two hots and neutral comeing from the pole. 

unless you thought I was referring to lightning rod grounding


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

tyb525 said:


> 60hz means it switches 60 times a second. If one leg of 220 wasnt neutral at some point it wouldn't work. It'd be like trying to run a 120v motor with only a black wire.
> 
> I understand you don't get this, a lot of "sparkies" don't.


It *cycles* 60 times a second, but *change directions* 120 times a second.

Once again: 'one leg is neutral at some point' is totally, wholly and utterly incorrect. Period.

You obviously have no concept of AC systems whatsoever. The 'leg' cannot be both a hot and neutral, depending on the sine wave. The 'leg' will _always_ be a 'hot'.


It would be a damned neat trick if they can jump between the hot tap and the neutral tap at the transformer 120 times a second.

Believe what you want, incorrect as it may be. But at this time, I will bow out. I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

maninthesea said:


> excuse my stupidity. I thought the "ground" at the distribution panel was connected to a rod driven into the ground outside the house and also bonded to the neutral there. Here we have two hots and neutral comeing from the pole.
> 
> unless you thought I was referring to lightning rod grounding


I'm not a sparky (GC)... but I bet Ken was just pointing out the difference between the GES (grounding electrode system) and the EGC equipment grounding circuit.

They sound alike, and are ultimately connected, but serve entirely different purposes. In laymens terms, the egc provides an alternate path to neutral to clear an equipment short. It is clearing the short through your service neutral, and not anything to do with the ground rod or ges system (they have too much resistance to be usefull in that regard)

In laymens terms, I'm not convinced the ground rod (GES) system does much.... maybe helping minimize voltage spikes and lightening hits to the system.... also ends up providing bonding of the water system to neutral.

Maybe Ken/RS will jump in and accurately describe.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

tyb525 said:


> 60hz means it switches 60 times a second.


Don't give up your day job.










Current flows in each direction twice every 1/60th of a second. While you may have somewhat of an _empirical_ grasp of how to hook stuff up so it works, your post indicates a pretty thorough lack of acquaintance with the actual theory behind it. :thumbsup:


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## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

My post is just what I've learned through various research over the years. In a 220 circuit, every 1/60th of a second, the two hot wires switch between + and -. That is the ONLY way it works without a separate neutral wire. It's also the reason why a 120 circuit needs a nuetral. This is theory that most building electricians don't understand apparently.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

The grounds (not the neutral) purpose is to connect the metal frames of electrical items to ground/earth. This connection protects users from a "live" chassis. If the user was grounded and due to a fault in the line side, the chassis was live, the current, if the chassis was touched would flow from the chassis through the user to ground. The chassis being grounded, the over current protection device would open the line side of the circuit.

I bet some here have been tingled by a few old metal chassis power tools. The new double insulated items make chassis charging (almost) impossible due the isolation and material.

Tom


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> The grounds (not the neutral) purpose is to connect the metal frames of electrical items to ground/earth. This connection protects users from a "live" chassis. If the user was grounded and due to a fault in the line side, the chassis was live, the current, if the chassis was touched would flow from the chassis through the user to ground. The chassis being grounded, the over current protection device would open the line side of the circuit.
> 
> I bet some here have been tingled by a few old metal chassis power tools. The new double insulated items make chassis charging (almost) impossible due the isolation and material.
> 
> Tom


YEP:thumbsup:


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

tyb525 said:


> 60hz means it switches 60 times a second. If one leg of 220 wasnt neutral at some point it wouldn't work. It'd be like trying to run a 120v motor with only a black wire.
> 
> I understand you don't get this, a lot of "sparkies" don't.





tyb525 said:


> My post is just what I've learned through various research over the years. In a 220 circuit, every 1/60th of a second, the two hot wires switch between + and -. That is the ONLY way it works without a separate neutral wire. It's also the reason why a 120 circuit needs a nuetral. This is theory that most building electricians don't understand apparently.


The problem is wording. 

In the first quoted post, you state it changes from hot to netural, an impossibility on the same yoke. 

The second post is correct cycles from plus to minus, which is how AC current works.

Two ungrounded conductors on seperate phases will work just fine. Your statement that a netural must be present at 220 for it to work is not correct. Many 3 phase systems have no netural in the panel.

Tom


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Bonding the ground to a water system is to protect users from a possible shock from a metal water supply system that may become charged. Same idea as grounding a device chassis.

The bonding of a water system to ground is required on a complete metal water system. 

At one time the water service line was used as the electrical system ground. With all the new non-conductive water feeders ground rods need to be used.

Tom


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> I assume you are saying the neutral was floated out of the main......not just the BI wanted grounds and neutrals on different bars. Kenn.... So where was the EGC going to...... are you sure the neutral and egc were not bonded at the meter box.


 I don't remember exactly, it was a long time ago. The equipment ground was going to two rods pounded in the ground and it was hooked to the metal stands for the mobile home as well. I'm not sure if it was bonded to the neutral at the meter box.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

Your friend should just be damn glad he didn't kill anyone..

We had a little girl near here electrocuted on a hydrant last year... the well had just been 'worked on' by a friend of theirs.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

tyb525 said:


> My post is just what I've learned through various research over the years. In a 220 circuit, every 1/60th of a second, the two hot wires switch between + and -. That is the ONLY way it works without a separate neutral wire. It's also the reason why a 120 circuit needs a nuetral. *This is theory that most building carpenters don't understand apparently.*


FIFY.


PLEASE, for everyone's sake, stick to the woodworking forums. You really don't have a grasp of this and keep trying to give the impression that you do.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Sorry for my absence to clarify what he did wrong. My friend installed a pedestal with proper grounds, ran triplex off a breaker to a sub panel in the yard next to where the home would be and also grounded that. All of this was inspected. Since the County/Towns here are quite relaxed on mobile homes the HO had one moved and put in with no permits to speak of so a CO is not needed therefore a final inspection not needed. My friend ran triplex from the sub panel into the mobile home panel and not knowing how to wire a sub panel properly he installed both lines on the main breaker but put the neutral on the ground buss. He also did not check to be sure all items in the home would be off before turning on the main breaker and he also did not do any testing before turning on the breaker. If he initially tested everything before turning on the main breaker he would have found a voltage problem and stopped there. But, thinking he knew what he was doing he just turned the breaker on and fried everything that was already on in the home. As 480 stated grounds would not have helped although the home still need to be grounded. My friend is now going through the hassle of just what did get burned up by the surge and how he is gong to pay for it. Turns out he has not gotten insurance yet either and his friend will not pay for the items, stupid, stupid, stupid!!!!! So far the HO ex-wife has a list of light bulbs, an alarm clock, microwave and one TV. He may get out of this fairly cheap.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

tyb525 said:


> My post is just what I've learned through various research over the years. In a 220 circuit, every 1/60th of a second, the two hot wires switch between + and -. That is the ONLY way it works without a separate neutral wire. It's also the reason why a 120 circuit needs a nuetral. This is theory that most building electricians don't understand apparently.


You are close, study center taps in transformers if you want to learn more.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

woodchuck2 said:


> Sorry for my absence to clarify what he did wrong. My friend installed a pedestal with proper grounds, ran triplex off a breaker to a sub panel in the yard next to where the home would be and also grounded that. All of this was inspected. Since the County/Towns here are quite relaxed on mobile homes the HO had one moved and put in with no permits to speak of so a CO is not needed therefore a final inspection not needed. My friend ran triplex from the sub panel into the mobile home panel and not knowing how to wire a sub panel properly he installed both lines on the main breaker but put the neutral on the ground buss. He also did not check to be sure all items in the home would be off before turning on the main breaker and he also did not do any testing before turning on the breaker. If he initially tested everything before turning on the main breaker he would have found a voltage problem and stopped there. But, thinking he knew what he was doing he just turned the breaker on and fried everything that was already on in the home. As 480 stated grounds would not have helped although the home still need to be grounded. My friend is now going through the hassle of just what did get burned up by the surge and how he is gong to pay for it. Turns out he has not gotten insurance yet either and his friend will not pay for the items, stupid, stupid, stupid!!!!! So far the HO ex-wife has a list of light bulbs, an alarm clock, microwave and one TV. He may get out of this fairly cheap.


*Thanks WOODCHUCK*.... We're on the same page. He had no effective neutral to his 110 MH branch circuts.... and whacked certain appliances with up to 240/239 V.

(Funny...I don't know what A (size guage wire) he fed to the mobil home sub panel, but I would have thought he had to go to the trouble to add a bigger lug to his ground bar to even make-up that neutral to it.....strange)

For a guy who thought he could wire a residential.... that seems a pretty bad understanding..... 

Guess a little knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge in this case. Good argument to get a pro/sparky.... when playing with limited understanding.

Best


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> I assume you are saying the neutral was floated out of the main......not just the BI wanted grounds and neutrals on different bars.
> 
> Kenn.... So where was the EGC going to......
> 
> are you sure the neutral and egc were not bonded at the meter box.





KennMacMoragh said:


> I don't remember exactly, it was a long time ago. The equipment ground was going to two rods pounded in the ground and it was hooked to the metal stands for the mobile home as well. I'm not sure if it was bonded to the neutral at the meter box.


Kenn... Thanks...

Just as curious info, there was thread here or somewhere, with knowledgable sparkies contributing, where some utility (don't remember the geographic area) required the neutral to be floated out of what we would consider the main panel/disconnect, all the way to the meter pan.

In this instance the meter was maybe 30 feet from the main. The meter had no disconnect, apart from pulling the meter. EGC and neutral were not bonded untill and inside the meter box. GES was run out of the meter box.

As 480/RS/Speedy point out, I think it's pretty standard to bond at the main disconnect (main service panel), but this was some local and inspected assembly/rule.

Caveat, I'm not a Sparky, just a GC discussing an issue.... so be carefull.

Best

Peter


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Kenn... Thanks... Just as curious info, there was thread here or somewhere, with knowledgable sparkies contributing, where some utility (don't remember the geographic area) required the neutral to be floated out of what we would consider the main panel/disconnect, all the way to the meter pan. In this instance the meter was maybe 30 feet from the main. The meter had no disconnect, apart from pulling the meter. EGC and neutral were not bonded untill and inside the meter box. GES was run out of the meter box. As 480/RS/Speedy point out, I think it's pretty standard to bond at the main disconnect (main service panel), but this was some local and inspected assembly/rule. Caveat, I'm not a Sparky, just a GC discussing an issue.... so be carefull. Best Peter


That could have been the reason for the ground and neutral separation in the panel. Mobile homes require the meter to be mounted on a post outside the home, so if the home is ever moved, the meter stays there. What would happen if I did connect the equipment ground and neutral in the electric panel and then the neutral from the panel to the meter became open? Dangerous situation, then someone touches the refrigerator and gets zapped. My memory is fuzzy but I'm pretty sure I put a three wire cable from the panel to the meter box. So the only thing the equipment ground was going to was the metal stands under the home and the grounding rods. 

I didn't know what I was doing when I did this, I asked another electrician but he wasn't familiar with wiring mobile homes. He told me the grounds and neutral should all be on the same bus. But I had to tell him that mobile home electric panels just aren't done this way. The electrical inspector was nice enough to explain what I needed.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

" He told me the grounds and neutral should all be on the same bus."

This is exactly what my friend thought too and argued with me about it. At 1st he called me expecting me to diag his problem over the phone and i was sure he was having a neutral issue with the power surges but he really had me lost when he was trying to tell me he had voltage on the ground and neutral buss's. I gave up and drove to the home so i could physically see what he had done from the utility pole to the home.


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