# Liability for a damaged couch- What is realistic?



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> that's silly..it really is. 1500 was for floor model( CHEAPSKATES) Looking for a deal despite people farting all over it. and whatever else might exist. 2) it was for 2 pieces. he is not liable for 2 pieces . sorry your time and money theory is sorted out with logical and diplomatic approach. if things got to the point they can not be worked out for a simple mishap spot stain, then court is the only way and they lose.. No judge is giving them a new living room set. I suspect you may have had many interior issues as a deck guy,


How you feel about the couch and what they are trying to pull is really irrelevant. Going to court to save 1500 bucks is ridiculous. Sometimes you have to put your emotions aside. It would cost me more money for the time I'm not working on another job to go to court then it would to just pay the 1500 bucks.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I'm with Griz, I would absolutely give them the 1500 bucks with a signed letter that the debt was settled and agreed upon. 1500 bucks can be cheap to move on.


I would gauge this situation by how the customer has reacted. They want $2600 for a couch they paid $1500 for three years ago. They are predators and willing to take advantage of an accident.

The OP should contact an upholstery cleaner and have them clean it, which is what they should have done in the first place. I don't think a spot of paint warrants a replacement. Reupholster maybe, but not replacement.

The OP is also not responsible for replacing the love seat, especially since they want him to pay for it's replacement but want to keep it for their son. They can keep it, but after they buy it back from me. So if they bought the drapes to match the couches as well as the coffee and end tables he has to buy them new ones to match?

The problem that the OP faces is they seem like the type of people that no matter how clean the spot gets they think they have the OP over a barrel and will not be satisfied.

If the customer does not like the cleaning route, call your insurance company and let them handle it. You are paying them to help you get out of unnecessary expenses and they have a team of lawyers waiting to serve your interests.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> that's silly..it really is. 1500 was for floor model( CHEAPSKATES) Looking for a deal despite people farting all over it. and whatever else might exist. 2) it was for 2 pieces. he is not liable for 2 pieces . sorry your time and money theory is sorted out with logical and diplomatic approach. if things got to the point they can not be worked out for a simple mishap spot stain, then court is the only way and they lose.. No judge is giving them a new living room set. I suspect you may have had many interior issues as a deck guy,


They are not asking for a new living room set they are asking for 1500 bucks. I've been in this business for thirty years and decking is not the majority of it. I'm a full service general contractor as well. But WTF has that got to do with anything. The same principles would apply to anything a contractor may damage regardless of whether or not it was indoors or out.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I would gauge this situation by how the customer has reacted. They want $2600 for a couch they paid $1500 for three years ago. They are predators and willing to take advantage of an accident. The OP should contact an upholstery cleaner and have them clean it, which is what they should have done in the first place. I don't think a spot of paint warrants a replacement. Reupholster maybe, but not replacement. The OP is also not responsible for replacing the love seat, especially since they want him to pay for it's replacement but want to keep it for their son. They can keep it, but after they buy it back from me. So if they bought the drapes to match the couches as well as the coffee and end tables he has to buy them new ones to match? The problem that the OP faces is they seem like the type of people that no matter how clean the spot gets they think they have the OP over a barrel and will not be satisfied. If the customer does not like the cleaning route, call your insurance company and let them handle it. You are paying them to help you get out of unnecessary expenses and they have a team of lawyers waiting to serve your interests.


Most insurance policies have at least a 500 dollar deductible and if your like me I have something like a 2500 dollar one. I can afford 2500 bucks all day long. So if your deductible is 500 bucks is it worth it to make a claim for 1000 dollars? It isn't to me.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

WTF...were talking $1500 bucks...

Your insurance company will laugh you out of the office...

or you'll be looking for a new underwriter...

The GC fvcked up.....too bad....

dipstick on the crew needs a can a whoop ass opened on him...:laughing:

the amount of time & money that could be spent trying to shove a resolution down the clients throat is nuts...

Now how about protecting your reputation....

You just paid for a few more credits towards your Phd....


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I have been through this a long time ago and also do work for a company that does furniture repair work for movers and insurance companies. 

Depending on the brand of furniture lifespan can be up to 50 years, upholstered furniture is less. 3 years is not that old, it still may be considered new.They can come up with a brand/model number and the ins co will come up with a median price, then depending on the age it is discounted. If you dont want to file a claim you will be at the mercy of the HO. If you do make a claim your policy is going up.

Built in items are very different, cabinets, countertops,flooring etc
I know someone who had to pay for 40 something yards of vinyl after tearing a 6" cut in the laundry room. The laundry room, kitchen, hall, bathroom all had to be replaced at full value because it was less than 3 years old and their flooring guy said it could not be patched and not noticed


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> They are not asking for a new living room set they are asking for 1500 bucks. I've been in this business for thirty years and decking is not the majority of it. I'm a full service general contractor as well. But WTF has that got to do with anything. The same principles would apply to anything a contractor may damage regardless of whether or not it was indoors or out.


read it again..

if you're in the habit of losing money because that what a HO thinks you should do.then you r a fool.

it doesn't save your reputation to put your self on the chopping block..its foolish.

sure pick your battles.but giving a HO 15 because they have minor damage they will NEVER replace is simply stupid.

your reputation is never hurt by 1 customer.stop believing that BS,

unless of course they are they your only?

I agree 1500 aint worth insurance but it sure worth defending.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Did I say anything about saving your reputation? Learn how to read. It's an economics thing to me. It's not complicated.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Most insurance policies have at least a 500 dollar deductible and if your like me I have something like a 2500 dollar one. I can afford 2500 bucks all day long. So if your deductible is 500 bucks is it worth it to make a claim for 1000 dollars? It isn't to me.


Mines $500.

Griz, I wouldn't pay money to an insurance company that would laugh me out of the office. I have called a few times and never had to file a claim, but they gave me some pretty sound advice.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> IMO 1500 bucks is small money and I would never make a claim on my policy for that amount. My policy is for the big stuff, like dropping a 2x10 the HO. And yes it's good business to not spend a lot of time to save a small amount of money.


Still failing to see reality.

a simple reminder that the ball is in their courtt and do they plan to pay their bill will suffice.
Ask them right to their face. The man with the bigger pair usually prevails.

you will make a reasonable attempt to correct and repair,

they do not get new.

I had an accident the other day.bone headed bump at a light.

woman already had damage to her bumper. we meet roadside.
She tells me the bolt hard form my license plate mount damaged her bumper.I pointed out she has other damage.
"but this is new" her words.

Calls her husband.tells me how her Durango was in shop due another driver.
Now here's what is funny.I tell her whatever she wants to do is fine with me.the damage wont even make my deductible. she in turn asks me what she should do.

I tell her it your car..your decision.No big deal.its small live with it.

she say well this is an Audi.lets call and find out what an Audi bumper costs with her snide attitude as if she was above me.
"this is an audi " she says (yea ok A-4)

I tell her go ahead and waste your time..this an be fixed in a detail shop.

she calls husband delivers drama.:"I was just rear ended"

Me: really" I Bumped you
her" he bumper me and dented the bumper"

Me" ummmm you have a slight impression in your bumper along side if obvious other damage.

point here is she thought she was entitled to a new bumper now.
Her husband told her to leave it and drive of after she called him.

my final retribution was telling her my Tundra cost more than her Audi.. as if i was a Pee on.
its the same thing,

she dont get a new bumper because she bumped
d her already damaged bumper,,it gets fixed. 

plain and simple.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Mines $500. Griz, I wouldn't pay money to an insurance company that would laugh me out of the office. I have called a few times and never had to file a claim, but they gave me some pretty sound advice.


Let's say the insurance fights it down to 700 bucks now you just made a claim for 200 bucks and that's not something I would want to use my insurance for. I'll bet there's 200 bucks in change in my seat cushions.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> Still failing to see reality. a simple reminder that the ball is in their courtt and do they plan to pay their bill will suffice. Ask them right to their face. The man with the bigger pair usually prevails. you will make a reasonable attempt to correct and repair, they do not get new. I had an accident the other day.bone headed bump at a light. woman already had damage to her bumper. we meet roadside. She tells me the bolt hard form my license plate mount damaged her bumper.I pointed out she has other damage. "but this is new" her words. Calls her husband.tells me how her Durango was in shop due another driver. Now here's what is funny.I tell her whatever she wants to do is fine with me.the damage wont even make my deductible. she in turn asks me what she should do. I tell her it your car..your decision.No big deal.its small live with it. she say well this is an Audi.lets call and find out what an Audi bumper costs with her snide attitude as if she was above me. "this is an audi " she says (yea ok A-4) I tell her go ahead and waste your time..this an be fixed in a detail shop. she calls husband delivers drama.:"I was just rear ended" Me: really" I Bumped you her" he bumper me and dented the bumper" Me" ummmm you have a slight impression in your bumper along side if obvious other damage. point here is she thought she was entitled to a new bumper now. Her husband told her to leave it and drive of after she called him. my final retribution was telling her my Tundra cost more than her Audi.. as if i was a Pee on. its the same thing, she dont get a new bumper because she bumped d her already damaged bumper,,it gets fixed. plain and simple.


No I just fail to see your intelligence!


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

jamestrd said:


> ...
> it doesn't save your reputation to put your self on the chopping block..its foolish....
> 
> your reputation is never hurt by 1 customer.stop believing that BS,...
> ...


Wow, guess it depends on the circle of clients you run with....:whistling

Insurance companies NEVER fight or defend.....

all they do is settle, usually quickly....

Why do you think that is?????...:whistling


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

griz said:


> Wow, guess it depends on the circle of clients you run with....:whistling Insurance companies NEVER fight or defend..... all they do is settle, usually quickly.... Why do you think that is?????...:whistling


So your saying it would be the same principle for me to settle and have it go away? Are you saying, I then wouldn't have to have it ding my policy for such small potatoes, regardless of what my emotions may tell me? What a noble concept!


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> So your saying it would be the same principle for me to settle and have it go away? Are you saying, I then wouldn't have to have it ding my policy for such small potatoes, regardless of what my emotions may tell me? What a noble concept!


ok California.

spend more time actually out there and less time pretending


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> ok California. spend more time actually out there and less time pretending


You think I just guess at this chit?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

jamestrd said:


> Griz
> 
> drop your BS and you gratuitous smiley whistle blowers.
> 
> ...


Sorry Bud, No BS here...:thumbsup:

I not only read my words I live by them....:thumbsup:

Settling a financial issue is pure business...

and I don't give a rats fvck on your opinion of how i write...:thumbup:

They must be gay in the circle you run...:thumbup::laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> ok California. spend more time actually out there and less time pretending


:laughing: :laughing: :smile:  :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> Griz drop your BS and you gratuitous smiley whistle blowers. read your own words.. to lose and settle on something frivolous is foolish..don;t standup here with your icons and and act above as if you are. you got something to say say it without your gay smiley.


Can't believe you just posted this chit! It really tells a lot about who you are.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> Can't believe you just posted this chit! It really tells a lot about who you are.


exactly California boy..

i stand by my comments and advice..do you?..or you want o throw up some more gay ass smileys and whistlers?
oh..i just said this,,but my smiley makes it not real or serious

My rep speaks for itself..dont need a couple time wasting multiple thousand posters telling me whats up.

I go out and do it.,not spend all my time posting here.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Let's say the insurance fights it down to 700 bucks now you just made a claim for 200 bucks and that's not something I would want to use my insurance for. I'll bet there's 200 bucks in change in my seat cushions.


You'll need to find another $600 in those seats because you would settle for $1500.

I guess I need to further explain. I wouldn't necessarily file a claim but I would contact them. That's what I meant by letting them handle it. My insurance company isn't for just filing claims. They are their to protect me, and advice is a form of protection. I am not a lawyer and don't settle things all day long and they do.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jamestrd said:


> exactly California boy.. i stand by my comments and advice..do you?..or you want o throw up some more gay ass smileys and whistlers? oh..i just said this,,but my smiley makes it not real or serious My rep speaks for itself..dont need a couple time wasting multiple thousand posters telling me whats up. I go out and do it.,not spend all my time posting here.


:laughing: This is what happens when someone doesn't have a case to make, or they've lost the "intelligence argument" they revert to insults and feel the need to tell us how great of a reputation they have. :laughing: and another! :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You'll need to find another $600 in those seats because you would settle for $1500. I guess I need to further explain. I wouldn't necessarily file a claim but I would contact them. That's what I meant by letting them handle it. My insurance company isn't for just filing claims. They are their to protect me, and advice is a form of protection. I am not a lawyer and don't settle things all day long and they do.


I didn't say not to call them. I said don't file a claim. Two completely different things. Even if they advised me to file a claim I wouldn't. After all they would love to raise your rates, so this isn't exactly an unbiased opinion.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You'll need to find another $600 in those seats because you would settle for $1500.
> 
> I guess I need to further explain. I wouldn't necessarily file a claim but I would contact them. That's what I meant by letting them handle it. My insurance company isn't for just filing claims. They are their to protect me, and advice is a form of protection. I am not a lawyer and don't settle things all day long and they do.


Exactly...


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I didn't say not to call them. I said don't file a claim. Two completely different things. Even if they advised me to file a claim I wouldn't. After all they would love to raise your rates, so this isn't exactly an unbiased opinion.


I know James has got you all heated up but chill on me brotha. I was just clarifying myself. It seemed that you thought I was advocating filing a claim and I wasn't.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> :laughing: This is what happens when someone doesn't have a case to make, or they've lost the "intelligence argument" they revert to insults and feel the need to tell us how great of a reputation they have. :laughing: and another! :laughing:


ok west coast


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You'll need to find another $600 in those seats because you would settle for $1500. I guess I need to further explain. I wouldn't necessarily file a claim but I would contact them. That's what I meant by letting them handle it. My insurance company isn't for just filing claims. They are their to protect me, and advice is a form of protection. I am not a lawyer and don't settle things all day long and they do.


An insurance company's advise will ALWAYS be, what's in their best interest.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

My second best refferal source is from my biggest nightmare job I have ever done. Coincidence it was my second six figure remodel, with a new construction background?? :whistling

I get goosebumps thinking about it. Dent in a pecan dining room floor, scratch on dining room table, mortar stains on a paver driveway. The amount out of pocket was equivalent to one third of wbat I contributed to start this company, which wasnt a ton, but wasnt pocket change for a 25 year old carpenter. 

I thought about the ways to indemnify the situation over the weekend. I discussed it with my partner. 

On Monday I had her pick a new flooring for her dining room at my supplier, as the original could not be matched, certainly not the lady of the houses expectations. I removed pavers near the back of their driveway, and replaced the stained ones for a perfect match. The new pavers went in place of the old. 

I offered to pay for the table or the refinishing of the table. They asked if I could touch it up. My painter did a great job with some stain. Mercifully they thought it was wonderful. 

I been more than repaid for the reaction to that problem. 

On another job I replaced a mirror that I broke tightening a screw in a receptacle. I told the lady it was liable to break. The mirror and the receptacle had NOTHING to do with my scope of work. I never got a referal from them, and wouldnt want it. :no: That was one that made it through the qualification process that shouldnt of. The mirror was huge, by the way. 

There are a few others. 

Personally, the brand I want to establish isnt cheap. I try and do everything above board, even when I have to choke back a bunch of bile to do it. 

I have seen a lot of contractors who will quibble over the small stuff, tripping on dollars to pick up nickels. Sometimes whats right isnt what will reflect positively on you. Meaning, even though you are getting screwed, there is no way out of it with out a stain. 

There are times and things worth stonewalling about. For me, thats never when I made a mistake. 

Ill admit its a raw deal, but tell your guy he screwed up, make sure to cover things properly, and find a place for a used couch.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> An insurance company's advise will ALWAYS be, what's in their best interest.


Not true. Mine has given me me sound advice every time and when signing up tried to help get me the cheapest rates he could.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Not true. Mine has given me me sound advice every time and when signing up tried to help get me the cheapest rates he could.


That would be in his best interest. Don't you think?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

When I give my customer the lowest price I can it's not to help them.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> That would be in his best interest. Don't you think?


The implication you made was that they would ONLY serve their best interest even if it conflicted with mine.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> When I give my customer the lowest price I can it's not to help them.


So all of your motives and everything you do for your clients is purely out of self? You never do something just for the sake of doing it? Wasn't it you who said that you would move a little old ladies furniture out of the way even if it wasn't in the contract?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> The implication you made was that they would ONLY serve their best interest even if it conflicted with mine.


No, the implication I made is when asking them if you should file a claim (or not) they will most certainly think about their interest. Not to mention insurance brokers are usually very careful about what advise they give someone due to liabilities, as they should be. Unlike a lawyer they are being paid to give you advise in your best interest only.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> So all of your motives and everything you do for your clients is purely out of self? You never do something just for the sake of doing it? Wasn't it you who said that you would move a little old ladies furniture out of the way even if it wasn't in the contract?


I think I said when I give a good price, it's not to help them, it's to get the job. ( yes all decisions i make for my company is based solely on the companies best interest) I never said anything about not being a gentleman or a nice guy.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> My second best refferal source is from my biggest nightmare job I have ever done. Coincidence it was my second six figure remodel, with a new construction background?? :whistling
> 
> I get goosebumps thinking about it. Dent in a pecan dining room floor, scratch on dining room table, mortar stains on a paver driveway. The amount out of pocket was equivalent to one third of wbat I contributed to start this company, which wasnt a ton, but wasnt pocket change for a 25 year old carpenter.
> 
> ...


I am currently eating a $4000 repair to a travertine floor. While it isn't totally my fault, I felt it the right thing to do for the situation.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I am currently eating a $4000 repair to a travertine floor. While it isn't totally my fault, I felt it the right thing to do for the situation.


That sucks, hoss. Been a while since my last one.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> No, the implication I made is when asking them if you should file a claim (or not) they will most certainly think about their interest. Not to mention insurance brokers are usually very careful about what advise they give someone due to liabilities, as they should be. Unlike a lawyer they are being paid to give you advise in your best interest only.


Actually you said ALWAYS in caps...not "most certainly think about their interest". Huge difference. The implication that they will ALWAYS give advise in their interest.

And I didn't use a broker, but an agent.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I think I said when I give a good price, it's not to help them, it's to get the job. ( yes all decisions i make for my company is based solely on the companies best interest) I never said anything about not being a gentleman or a nice guy.


Semantics.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Actually you said ALWAYS in caps...not "most certainly think about their interest". Huge difference. The implication that they will ALWAYS give advise in their interest. And I didn't use a broker, but an agent.


Any company that doesn't always make decisions in the companies best interest, is not much of a company. "Always" is exactly what I meant. "Most certainly" means "undeniably" I don't see a reason both words couldn't apply.


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