# Embedding W10 beam in concrete footing



## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Thanks for the input guys.

The manufacturer only specs embedment--not bolting.

I have to get the exact weight of the beams from the metal shop to make a decision.

I called my customer today to let him know the complexity and he is aware that it's not straightforward so it will be expensive relatively speaking.

I need to line up an excavator with a big auger or call UR and see what they have that will turn a 36" bit at 5'+ deep.

Next issue will be finding concrete. Maybe the short load truck will be a better option in terms of access. Have to see. I really do not want to shuttle concrete in an excavator bucket. I'll also look into renting a buggy.

Hmm...


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Chris Johnson said:


> Your dealing with wind load which is why they need to be in the ground, the plate idea can work, but requires a really heavy plate (engineer spec), welding (and not a 1/4" fillet weld, something substantial) along with a special inspection on the weld, the bolts I'm guessing would be a min. of 1" and need to be 4' into the pier. Grout it up after it's set. What have you saved compared to dropping into the concrete?
> 
> Nothing, between the savings on the shorter I-beams, add the plates with drilled holes, welding, special inspection, long threaded rods, your back to square one.


When ever we install columns, we do it with leveling plates, j-bolts or fab'ed lattice, etc. We order 11 gauge plates drilled the same as the base plates, and we use jam nuts to level out, which are thinner than regular hex. We pour the footings with j-bolts hooked and tied into the rebar, and make sure the bolt pattern matches the base plates by making up a plywood template that gets laid across the form and leveled out (and centered, if it's part of an array of footings) after the concrete is poured in. Concrete cures, anchor bolt template comes off, chase the threads on the bolts, on go the jam nuts and leveling plate, we shoot levels with a transit to level out the leveling plates, then we drop the columns, plumb them out and erect the horizontal beams, etc. Then we grout the bases with non-shrink grout. Jam nuts and leveling plates stay behind, in the grout. I've never come across a job where the engineer called for plopping a steel column into freshly poured concrete. Maybe it's because we do a bunch in a row or a whole structure. It's just way cheaper to mass produce level plates and rebar lattices. I can see it getting outrageously expensive trying to stand up 25 columns with the tri-pod frames I read about above (not that it won't work for one or two). 

A few years ago we had a stretch where we had a crew doing nothing be steel erection. One guy could fab 16 rebar lattices in a day, then 2 guys stand up and grout 16 more columns 20 ft long in another day (we do it with a Lull most of the time). 

The pours would be a wash between the two methods. But standing 16 columns up in concrete would take a bit longer, no?

However, I have also never set steel columns anywhere else other than New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. It may very well be standard practice in other states to do it the way Daktronics drew it. Maybe it was my training in the chemical industry that is biasing me towards j-bolts and base plates.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Greg Di said:


> I have to get the exact weight of the beams from the metal shop to make a decision.


I think I saw the weights of the beams on the drawing. All you need are dimensions A and B, and then the beam dims and weights are in the table. W10x15, etc. 

If your guy says it needs to be engineered, send me a private message here on the boards and I'll hook you up with a set of prints.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I get more details for embedded posts. 

I've done a number of carport/solar arrays that have them buried in the bottom. Only time I see me setting cages and bolts are for street lights.

Keep in mind I'm in California, earthquakes and wind...so that is most likely the difference


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Just to update the situation, I am upping this image.

The yellow rectangle is the installation site.

The yellow line is the closest road access to the site.

The blue line is the electrical run.

No, I can't access from the parking lot side....it's all terraced.

Aggie, I think the customer already got the borough engineer to stamp the Daktronics drawings. If I need a hand, I'll take you up on it. Much appreciated.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm driving through your neck of the woods Tuesday morning. I'm looking at two jobs in Pearl River. Then Port Newark to kick one off, then Edison to kick off another.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Aggie67 said:


> When ever we install columns, we do it with leveling plates, j-bolts or fab'ed lattice, etc. We order 11 gauge plates drilled the same as the base plates, and we use jam nuts to level out,................................
> However, I have also never set steel columns anywhere else other than New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. It may very well be standard practice in other states to do it the way Daktronics drew it. Maybe it was my training in the chemical industry that is biasing me towards j-bolts and base plates.


:clap::laughing: There you go,
being an engineer again! :clap::laughing:

I've stuck a lot of bolts, and set a lot
of grout plates, but he's just talking
about two posts not fabbing red iron 
for a whole school. :laughing:

Wish they'd let us use jamb nuts 
in the day! :notworthy


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

I drove by and took a look at the Daktronics board I quoted and lost. That contractor followed the Daktronics drawing. No plates. I took pics but haven't downloaded them yet. Couldn't help but notice the columns are rusting at grade. There was also a paved road two feet from the board. 

The board is barely 3 years old, and the columns are rusting already. But hey, they drew it and someone else blessed it, right?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Aggie67 said:


> I drove by and took a look at the Daktronics board I quoted and lost. That contractor followed the Daktronics drawing. No plates. I took pics but haven't downloaded them yet. Couldn't help but notice the *columns are rusting at grade*. There was also a paved road two feet from the board.
> 
> The board is barely 3 years old, and the *columns are rusting already*. But hey, they drew it and someone else blessed it, right?


Oh gosh...... I would NEVER have suspected THAT happening. :laughing: :no: :whistling http://www.contractortalk.com/f4/embedding-w10-beam-concrete-footing-53493/#post611508


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Aggie67 said:


> I drove by and took a look at the Daktronics board I quoted and lost. That contractor followed the Daktronics drawing. No plates. I took pics but haven't downloaded them yet. Couldn't help but notice the columns are rusting at grade. There was also a paved road two feet from the board.
> 
> The board is barely 3 years old, and the columns are rusting already. But hey, they drew it and someone else blessed it, right?


Just curious, were they galvanized?


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## maurisgreen (Feb 20, 2009)

*Embedding W10 beam in concrete footing.*

Hi,

Good idea !
You can go head !:thumbup:


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

rustyjames said:


> Just curious, were they galvanized?


Nope. Painted. And it looks like a dog has been pissing on the same spot for 3 years. The paint is stained and bubbled on one flange about 10 inches above grade.


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