# Sub starts but doesn't finish, pay nothing or pay prorate?



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

pathbuilder said:


> My contract says you were hired to complete X, that's what the customer hired us to do. And my contract says you only get paid once fully completing X. I didn't hire a sub to do 50% of X. And if one sub doesn't finish it, I need to hire another sub. But none the less, is there any legality saying such a clause in the contract is bogus? Let's say they worked for a week, a solid 40-50 hours, but then walked away or just stopped talking to you. Do you owe them anything?


Drop a dime for an hours' consultation with a construction contract lawyer in your state. 

Collectively, our opinions here are meaningless.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I would wait for his bill and go from there. I'll bet it never shows up.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Lmao. 

That'd be the day.


MarkJames said:


> I would wait for his bill and go from there. I'll bet it never shows up.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Lmao.
> 
> That'd be the day.
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_A009 using Tapatalk


Meaning what? You think a bill is 100% on its way?

I had an electrician bail on his bill, after d_cking around on a panel upgrade. I kept telling to send it, but with adjustments for my time. Never happened.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Oh yeah. Never had anyone do ANYTHING and not send a bill unless it was some kind of favor or issue they had billing for, and then it was a top tier sub and wouldn't let me pay them if they didn't agree

Otherwise yeah I expect a bill lol

I did have a kid quit on day one and never came to get his check. We mailed it.


MarkJames said:


> Meaning what? You think a bill is 100% on it's way?


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

As a sub, that's in & out in 5 days as an average, the only money I usually collect up front is for materials, when they're ordered. If for some reason I didn't complete the project, you'd never get a bill from me. Course, I've never not finished a job I committed too.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

you have not provided enough info to render a proper opinion.

have your attorney write him a letter outlining that he is in breach of contract and also provide all the additional costs to get the job finished.

be sure to include your time involved in, contacting the attorney, finding a new sub and the delays on the job which may have involved other subs or your in house crew.

i completely agree with paying a sub for work done in compliance with the contract and SOW....

but i'll be dammed if i'm going to fork over money to some sob who just walked away...:thumbsup:


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## woody123 (Apr 29, 2018)

Big Johnson said:


> Find out what his replacement will charge and deduct that from the quitters contracted price.



plus the cost of your time , havig to find someone , and coordinating them 
( your time is worth something)


it does matter what the reason he never came back is also.
serious family issue?
or " i have a better project where i`ll make better money

i`d meet him at least once 
and talk civil - " o.k john whats up? you know you left me looking bad to my client .my jobs delayed . also i have to hire an unknown sub .tell me why you feel i have to be fair with you , when you weren't with me ?" and truly listen.... once .
also make sure and wait till that other new sub is complete , and you don`t have to deal with that issue anymore.so you can go on coordinating you other 5-10 subs


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Yup



woody123 said:


> plus the cost of your time , havig to find someone , and coordinating them
> ( your time is worth something)
> 
> 
> ...


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

My experience by and large has been that if a trade disappears mid-job, with no call, it always ends the same.

They will show up asking for money for what they already did. The reason will always be drug/alcohol/arrest related.

Hardest one for me. was basement wall contractor, left me stranded with 15 holes not done. That's 30 front doors.

When he showed up, it was after being bailed for a coke bust. But he wanted to be loaned forward some money.

A "certain somebody"- not me - was similarly inconvenienced. The guy was offered a few bucks and a plane ticket to Arizona.. Next day, a new company using this guys equipment was pouring my walls 24/7. It was a sight to see. Portable stage floods, trucks & pumpers lined up like an interstate traffic jam.

The story is ALWAYS the same.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Pay the man what he has in it, and let him know to never expect another job from you.


Minus the cost of finding someone to finish. (Additional cost from new sub, day job delayed...)

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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Drop a dime for an hours' consultation with a construction contract lawyer in your state.
> 
> Collectively, our opinions here are meaningless.


Not sure at all. The law is not to speed. Not even a mile over. We all now were we can get away with 1, 5 or 10 miles over in our town. If he can get the sub to agree to a lien for 30% on a 50% job done his contract matters not. 

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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Unless there are progress payments it's simple beach of contract. Nothing is owed as they broke the contract. 

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## woody123 (Apr 29, 2018)

SmallTownGuy said:


> My experience by and large has been that if a trade disappears mid-job, with no call, it always ends the same.
> 
> They will show up asking for money for what they already did. The reason will always be drug/alcohol/arrest related.
> 
> ...


i was doing house after house in miami , after Hurricane Andrew ( 1992 , i believe)

hired this painter " Roger" to follow our work , and re-paint the homes 
finding subs was a nightmare . there so many scum-bags coming from out of state , all the local subs were so busy
Roger was a heavy drinker.
he`d would show , with his 2 guys, and at each break , i`d see he was drinking beer . lunch was beer . .i was running frantic , and i figured he was doing a good job , so what ever.
he hadn't showed for a week ,

talking with my guys " wonder where Roger is"
one guy quipped " he probably died "
we chuckled

well Roger did die.
in the midst of painting 3 different houses for me.

had to replace him , and finish them all , which was more expensive than usual because of all the storm-repair-demand.
wife came looking for me , and wanted money for the paint work on all these jobs 
she had no idea what he was doing , but wanted money.( can`t blame her)
had to fight with her because she thought i was scamming her out of Rogers money
worked it out , but what a disaster.


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## Fishindude (Aug 15, 2017)

Since you had him plugged into your bid, you have X dollars to work with. Pay somebody else to finish the job, then give the guy that bailed on you whatever is left (if any). Get a lien release before you pay anything.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

woody123 said:


> i was doing house after house in miami , after Hurricane Andrew ( 1992 , i believe)
> 
> hired this painter " Roger" to follow our work , and re-paint the homes
> finding subs was a nightmare . there so many scum-bags coming from out of state , all the local subs were so busy
> ...


Sad & funny !


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Why is this such a mystery?
Is it a roofer did he come paper the roof make it watertight and split to finish another roof?
Same deal with a side.
Is it an electrician that's it all his work for rough-in inspections or plumber?

What's the trade at least?


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## pathbuilder (Jul 22, 2017)

No secret, actually posed it as a discussion, as a 'what have you done', type of post. I appreciate the pay him for what he's done, if it matches your standard and will pass code, after all he did do it. But if he started a portion of the job and that portion isn't complete, that's a breach and he won't get paid for that portion


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## 5280carpenter (Nov 10, 2016)

Just trying to wrap up my head around this. GC approaches a new sub. Sub is booked out 3 months. GC is running behind 3 months. Sub agrees to do him a solid and squeeze in a cabinet install on his weekend.

45 cabinets set in 3 long days, trimmed out, doors back on with one exception: where the final two fillers go on the upper cabinets, with the agreement being to install the last two fillers, toe kicks, and handles after countertops are set yo make a full day's worth of work. Sub then goes back to his regular schedule and invoices for the cabinets set, less the fillers, etc and schedules a return trip 30 days out. Do you pay the man? 

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

5280carpenter said:


> Just trying to wrap up my head around this. GC approaches a new sub. Sub is booked out 3 months. GC is running behind 3 months. Sub agrees to do him a solid and squeeze in a cabinet install on his weekend.
> 
> 45 cabinets set in 3 long days, trimmed out, doors back on with one exception: where the final two fillers go on the upper cabinets, with the agreement being to install the last two fillers, toe kicks, and handles after countertops are set yo make a full day's worth of work. Sub then goes back to his regular schedule and invoices for the cabinets set, less the fillers, etc and schedules a return trip 30 days out. Do you pay the man?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


yes


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## pathbuilder (Jul 22, 2017)

5280carpenter said:


> Just trying to wrap up my head around this. GC approaches a new sub. Sub is booked out 3 months. GC is running behind 3 months. Sub agrees to do him a solid and squeeze in a cabinet install on his weekend.
> 
> 45 cabinets set in 3 long days, trimmed out, doors back on with one exception: where the final two fillers go on the upper cabinets, with the agreement being to install the last two fillers, toe kicks, and handles after countertops are set yo make a full day's worth of work. Sub then goes back to his regular schedule and invoices for the cabinets set, less the fillers, etc and schedules a return trip 30 days out. Do you pay the man?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


Yes without question. 

OK let's ask this. Same scenario. Except carpenter installs only 22 cabinets, 4 of them hung wrong. He doesn't show for work the next day. You call and text for 3 days and he never replies. 

Do you mail him a check? Wait for an invoice for the 22 cabinets and pay it?


Scenario 2: He asked for a deposit of 50% and you agreed. He only installs 10 of the 40 cabinets. Then you never hear from him again.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

No on both. I would offer a check to the the first to pick up when he comes to straighten out the couple of wrong cabinets.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

This is pretty straight forward... if he is contracted to be paid for a service and does not provide the service, under what pretense does he get paid? He gets paid for what he provided under the terms of the contract...

That's like hiring a builder to build a house, he gets its to the foundation phase and expects to be paid for the house anyway after bolting and causing all sorts of additional costs and scheduling issues... 

Doesn't work that way... he does get paid for whatever work was completed AFTER the extra expenses that are incurred because of his actions are accounted for...


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

pathbuilder said:


> Yes without question.
> 
> OK let's ask this. Same scenario. Except carpenter installs only 22 cabinets, 4 of them hung wrong. He doesn't show for work the next day. You call and text for 3 days and he never replies.
> 
> ...


Scenario 1 - This whole discussion in an allegory. Great for getting ideas and udnertstanding, but there is no objective definitive resolution that is right or wrong. All depends upon your values of conducting business. Once again there is a full range of conduct/values that is acceptable. Often it is very subject to the situation. 

Jaws for example takes the highest road, way above the line approach. He values his reputation as a stand up GC above all. His subs know with absolute certainty he'll pay, be more than fair. A commodity rarer than the rarest elements on earth. The loyalty and commitment a good sub will give from the get go knowing that is invaluable to him.

It's fair and reasonable to pay for work completed, even if the DB walked. 

Skipping in the middle of one job for another job, says volumes about what the sub thinks of you/your project. Of course it's natural to want to punish this "Richard" and make sure you get out on top. If it makes you feel better that's the way to do it. Being a ahrd arse hair splittin' kind of GC works for your business (often it has to) it's what you gotta do.

Scenario 2 The MFr stole from you. Nothing more needs to be said.


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