# Dishwashers,,, is it just ME ?



## CPlumb (Jan 17, 2008)

Who the H#$%LL is designing the new dishwashers ??  

Had ANOTHER one this a.m. that gave me FITS ! The newer models all seem to have a MUCH smaller opening to hook up water / electric and waste . 
Can't even get your hand in past the wrist

You gotta ask - Are the engineers who are designing these things EVER doing with the restrictions that we have to deal with daily ? Why can't they hire a plumber to help with the designs for the hook ups. Drives me NUTS !!!

CP


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

CPlumb said:


> Who the H#$%LL is designing the new dishwashers ??
> 
> Had ANOTHER one this a.m. that gave me FITS ! The newer models all seem to have a MUCH smaller opening to hook up water / electric and waste .
> Can't even get your hand in past the wrist
> ...


Tell your customers to buy Miele, the supply and drain are hooked up with hoses and just have to be stubbed into the cabinet and connected.


----------



## CPlumb (Jan 17, 2008)

That doesn't help . They just get 'em from the big box and then ONCE AGAIN we are screwed .

Design flaws and no help in sight ,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

CPlumb said:


> That doesn't help . They just get 'em from the big box and then ONCE AGAIN we are screwed .
> 
> Design flaws and no help in sight ,,,,,,,,,,


You can't buy a Miele at any HD or Lowes, their clientele generally won't spend $1300.00 on a dishwasher.


----------



## CPlumb (Jan 17, 2008)

Yeah ,,,, that is NOT my point Killer . Just wanted to throw it out there if any of the other plumbers were seeing this annoying trend .


----------



## RopeaGoat (Sep 21, 2007)

CPlumb...
I hear your pain... Dishwashers seriously make me think where I went wrong in career choice. Not only is the opening small but comeon at least roll the edges of the sheetmetal!! I seriously cut my thumb down to the bone about a year ago when I was replacing a unit. Took 3 stitches to close it up. Also, let's not forget that the Bosch units are square to the back and the cabinet needs to be knotched from the top of the base and the side. Give me a freakin' break!! Sorry to rant but you've got my sympathy.


----------



## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

CPlumb said:


> Who the H#$%LL is designing the new dishwashers ??
> 
> Had ANOTHER one this a.m. that gave me FITS ! The newer models all seem to have a MUCH smaller opening to hook up water / electric and waste .
> Can't even get your hand in past the wrist
> ...


Amen, they are ridiculously small!


----------



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

CPlumb said:


> Who the H#$%LL is designing the new dishwashers ??
> 
> Had ANOTHER one this a.m. that gave me FITS ! The newer models all seem to have a MUCH smaller opening to hook up water / electric and waste .
> Can't even get your hand in past the wrist
> ...


Engineering, huh??

The new Sears dishwashers have the steam vent on 'top' of the door, instead of the front.

Nothing as efficient as venting steam right up against the underside of the countertop, - - especially if it's laminate . . .


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Hook everything up prior to installation, feed it through the holes in the base as the unit goes in and then make the hard connections. 

I'll agree with the sheetmetal. Nothing like bleeding all over a customers home!


----------



## RopeaGoat (Sep 21, 2007)

I agree Teetor.. Much easier to tip the unit on its back and hook up the new parts then run it through the cabinet but on replacements the removal is the part that kills ya. Bad enough the tight space but now there is corrosion, rust, etc. Do any of you hook up the electrical or do you make the HO call an electrician? I'll do it but don't like to. I'd much rather share the fun with others.:clap:


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

RopeaGoat said:


> I agree Teetor.. Much easier to tip the unit on its back and hook up the new parts then run it through the cabinet but on replacements the removal is the part that kills ya. Bad enough the tight space but now there is corrosion, rust, etc. Do any of you hook up the electrical or do you make the HO call an electrician? I'll do it but don't like to. I'd much rather share the fun with others.:clap:


I haven't hooked up a dishwasher that had to be wired in well over 5 years, we install mostly Miele or Fischer Parkells, and they just plug in.


----------



## RopeaGoat (Sep 21, 2007)

Killer...
You got any openings for a great although novice plumber. I would give my left nut to work on some of the stuff I see you posting. Honestly you are inspiring me to find out how to get that specific type of high end work. Yesterday I was under a POS kitchen counter swapping out a faucet, tring to loosen the rusted nuts with the basin wrench and having a bear of a time when the boss asked "What do you think?" To which I responded, "I think I make poor career choices." The HO almost choked on her coffee and laughed histerically afterwards. Anywho I know this is just part of the job but the stuff you work on seems pretty cool.


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

RopeaGoat said:


> Killer...
> You got any openings for a great although novice plumber. I would give my left nut to work on some of the stuff I see you posting. Honestly you are inspiring me to find out how to get that specific type of high end work. Yesterday I was under a POS kitchen counter swapping out a faucet, tring to loosen the rusted nuts with the basin wrench and having a bear of a time when the boss asked "What do you think?" To which I responded, "I think I make poor career choices." The HO almost choked on her coffee and laughed histerically afterwards. Anywho I know this is just part of the job but the stuff you work on seems pretty cool.


If you are doing service work, having the right tools is a must, get one of these. 

The high end stuff isn't really any easier to work on, just a lot more expensive if you scratch or break something.


----------



## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

RopeaGoat said:


> Yesterday I was under a POS kitchen counter swapping out a faucet, tring to loosen the rusted nuts with the basin wrench and having a bear of a time when the boss asked "What do you think?" To which I responded, "I think I make poor career choices." The HO almost choked on her coffee and laughed histerically afterwards. Anywho I know this is just part of the job but the stuff you work on seems pretty cool.


:laughing::laughing:
From one who has made* many* poor choices
(career and otherwise) "Be careful little girl, what
you wish for..."
I wouldn't have the Chicago traffic, or the logistics
grief that comes with a high rise job.....
I'll take jobs for regular folk, that occasionally 
put me on a nice rustic plot in the toolies.

Every job looks better when someone else is doing it!


----------



## Paragon (Jul 22, 2007)

*YES hook it up prior to putting er in the hole!*

That is the way I do it too. It is the only way to fly. I use the installation kits that are sold at Best Buy on all of my installs.

The kit comes with everything I need a 6' braided stainless steel hose the 3/8" elbow and the teflon tape everything else comes with the machine and I provide my own worm drive clamps if need be for the hoses.

I get the old machine out and clean the cubby....

I place the machine on its back and remove the bottom access panel and thread the elbow into the machine and connect my supply line and my discharge hoses at this time. If I had a choice I would hook up the electrical at this point too but the line is usally too short so I have to do that once I get the machine in place. It isn't that big of a chore USUALLY as the strain releif is already on and so all you have to do is plug the electrical through the knock out, attach the nut, make the connections and secure the access panel.

Once I get those hoses fed through the side of the cabinets or floor I can pull back the excess as I put the machine in place that way I don't get a kinked hose or a tangled mess underneath.

Then the rest is clock work make my connections to the supply and the waste and level up the machine secure it to the countertop turn on the water and run it through the rinse cycle. This allows me to make sure there aren't any drips under the machine before I put the access panel on and ensures that I don't get any call backs.

Putting the hoses on prior to putting it in the hole saves a ton of frustration and if you are connecting to the old copper stop and use the braided hoses. You will be happy you did!


----------



## CPlumb (Jan 17, 2008)

Fellas ,

I know EXACTLY how to hook up a unit prior to installing in a cabinet . My point is that it is SO SMALL NOW for things like hooking up the electrical and reaching the back leveling feet . It's just gotten ridiculous !! Similar to some of the newer vanities that are coming out now .


----------



## user15686 (Jul 30, 2007)

I hear Chinese people are alot smaller than their American counterparts.


----------



## AJX4 (Jan 17, 2008)

The high end ones have gear driven legs that can be easily adjusted up and down front to back with a cordless screwdriver. They come already in a sealed cover around the unit so you're not fighting the struggle of the insulation snagging as you install it. If you're one manning the job it's awful hard to pull the the supply and drain feeds the same time you're gracefully lifting-pushing back over tile or wood floor. Cardboard helps but it can slide as well sometimes. Consider the high end ones have all that luxury paneling affixed to the sides that have to go in before it's put back in the hole, side mounts for granite countertop installs. Not a prayer in sight for some no matter what you do to secure. I put in around 10 a year, 10 too many. I just let somebody else do them since people are so unrealistic when you encounter problems like the wood floor guy that overlays the floor and locks the dishwasher in the hole. Time to consider your job a waste of time and money because you just got owned in that replacement for sure. charging more is not an option because the guy doesn't want to pay more than you quoted.


----------



## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

ASKO and Miele are well made & easier to install than the average(plug ins instead of hard wire--integral supply lines). 

Bosch used to be very good but I've had service issues with the last two I used. 

ASKO has a really jacked up panel mount system for the front, though. It's way too easy to strip the mounting posts.


----------



## Paragon (Jul 22, 2007)

Those adjusters and the sealed bottoms come with the LG's and yes they are nice too bad the other manufacturers don't come up with a system like that.

The LG's are also the quietest machines I have ever heard. I haven't installed any Meiles or Fisher and Paykals yet so I can't comment on those machines but I know the LG's are nice to install.

But for the kind of money a person pays for them they should be quiet, they should be innovative and they should load and unload themselves!


----------

