# Tree cutting



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Been watching some tree cutting videos on you tube. There are trees that "barber chair." Has anyone actually experienced or seen this in person? Are there certain trees prone to this ? Just wondering.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

*Tree Cutting*

I've only seen it online but know to be aware of it.


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## muskoka guy (Nov 16, 2013)

Leaning trees are prone to barber chairing.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

I just cut and run.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Yes, I have seen it several times.

Sort of the result pf a perfect storm.

Two dead from it 3 VERY QUICK futher muckers that are plain old lucky.

Falling timber is a VERY DANGEROUS occupation...

No particular species is prone to it. Can happen any time...


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Griz,

Is there any warning sound like crackling or something? ( insert funny comment here...) Does a leaning tree get cut differently to avoid splitting it?

My kid, the lawn cutter, has sought out some trees to cut in the neighborhood. I get to review his choices, most of the time .

I've always helped him and his two partners. A 20' crab apple, 20' birch and 20-25' ash have been cut. He was going to cut a 40-45' ash but the homeowner had second thoughts (glad he said no. I didn't know about it)

Anyway, small trees are just right for them.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I'll cut up to 30 feet.or so if it is a scrub tree. Any bigger than that, it needs to be out in the open where I can't cause any damage.

When they are near a house, I'll climb up on the roof and use my pole pruner and extension to lop the top off. Then cut it into small bite sized pieces. I love my pole pruner.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

20-30' trees aren't really all that dangerous in the large scheme, though even a 10' bush can give you a spanking on occasion. :laughing:

While those weird splits do happen, they're relatively rare, and if you're following proper procedures the chances of getting nailed aren't all that huge. Give the kid some credit and let him roll with it. :thumbsup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

olzo55 said:


> ...Griz,
> 
> Is there any warning sound like crackling or something? ( insert funny comment here...) Does a leaning tree get cut differently to avoid splitting it?...


Pretty common to hear the snap when the back cut is through.
You are usually backing away just prior to that.

Barber pole usually occurs when the falling cut is contrary to the way the tree wants to go. An imbalance in the branches, a breeze, back cut uneven with the face cut etc etc....

The size trees you are cutting can bite you if you are not careful but it is easier to see what is happening and to get out of the way.

I'm referring to timber, 18" diam and up, way up....and tall.

Anytime a chainsaw is sued there is good odds for an accident. Now throw a tree in the equation and there is tremendous potential for an accident to occur.

An internal, unseen, flaw at the cut can also cause problems.


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## Seahawk (Oct 15, 2014)

Barber chairs are rare, but super dangerous. I used to run small tree business (I love climbing). Still do a lot of it. 

With a true barber chair, there isn't much warning at all. It occurs with either a defect in wood, or a loaded tree. In 2d, if the tree is leaning heavily to the left, and you are felling it to the direction of lean, during the backcut, tension can be rapidly released into a halftree split that can take off your head.

Like I said, it's rare, and I haven't had a real one. I know it would scare me off my feet seeing videos though.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Thanks. There must be a months worth of video on tree cutting on You Tube.

As entertaining as watching teenage boys use chainsaws is, I'm trying to curb their enthusiasm to be safe while working. I have supervised the cutting down but let them handle the cutting up and packaging.

It's been a good life and work lesson for them. I am impressed with how well they work together and how it's made them more responsible. I'm also enjoying the fact that they are considering how to spend or save their money. At least until they get girlfriends,lol.


Oh, that pole pruner helps a lot, too. They got one that is a mini chainsaw on an extension 8-9' pole. That came in real handy on the crab apple as it over hung the ranch house roof.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

olzo55 said:


> Oh, that pole pruner helps a lot, too. They got one that is a mini chainsaw on an extension 8-9' pole. That came in real handy on the crab apple as it over hung the ranch house roof.


You can just about cut your head off accidentally with one of those.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

You can get a barber chair pretty easily doing controlled felling where you tie a line on the tree high up, and use a winch to pull it over. The cutter has to give the signal to put tension on or increase tension. It's relatively easy to split smaller trees if too much tension is on the rope at the wrong time You can also do this intentionally with a sloppy notch or too narrow of a notch, making the back cut too slowly, stopping the back cut too soon.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

hdavis said:


> You can just about cut your head off accidentally with one of those.


We used two guys on that saw. You are right, it can be hard for one guy to use.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

hdavis said:


> You can get a barber chair pretty easily doing controlled felling where you tie a line on the tree high up, and use a winch to pull it over. The cutter has to give the signal to put tension on or increase tension. It's relatively easy to split smaller trees if too much tension is on the rope at the wrong time You can also do this intentionally with a sloppy notch or too narrow of a notch, making the back cut too slowly, stopping the back cut too soon.


So it mimics the tension on a leaning tree? That's good to know. I've heard that guys will wrap the trunk with a chain a bit higher up from the cut to prevent it splitting low. Think that works?

With all the ash trees dying from the emerald ash borer problem, there is a guy that will cut any size tree for $350. Crazy, huh? However, my son under bid him! I told him no way. He'd make more money cutting lawns that weekend. Fortunately, the homeowner never called him back. That was another lesson learned.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

hdavis said:


> You can just about cut your head off accidentally with one of those.


How would you do that? It is 8 to 12 feet above you.

I am much more worried about that when using a regular chainsaw.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

hdavis said:


> You can get a barber chair pretty easily doing controlled felling where you tie a line on the tree high up, and use a winch to pull it over. The cutter has to give the signal to put tension on or increase tension. It's relatively easy to split smaller trees if too much tension is on the rope at the wrong time You can also do this intentionally with a sloppy notch or too narrow of a notch,* making the back cut too slowly, stopping the back cut too soon*.


This is the only time I've ever had a tree split on me. Sharp, properly powered/sized saws are a must if you're cutting large trees.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

olzo55 said:


> So it mimics the tension on a leaning tree? That's good to know. I've heard that guys will wrap the trunk with a chain a bit higher up from the cut to prevent it splitting low. Think that works?
> 
> With all the ash trees dying from the emerald ash borer problem, there is a guy that will cut any size tree for $350. Crazy, huh? However, my son under bid him! I told him no way. He'd make more money cutting lawns that weekend. Fortunately, the homeowner never called him back. That was another lesson learned.


Yes, anything that puts tension on the back cut can do it. Gusts of wind always worry me. I don't see why wrapping it wouldn't limit the splitting. I can't imagine doing this on a big tree. I suppose if you're going to be skidding it out, you could just use the skid chain and be ready to go.


If there is room to safely fell it and you don't have to move / chip the brush, $350 would be profitable. Having to take it down piece by piece is time consuming, especially if you can't get a bucket truck in.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

VinylHanger said:


> How would you do that? It is 8 to 12 feet above you.
> 
> I am much more worried about that when using a regular chainsaw.


I'll see if I can get the accident details - it was local.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

VinylHanger said:


> How would you do that? It is 8 to 12 feet above you.
> 
> I am much more worried about that when using a regular chainsaw.


The mini chainsaw pole saw is very awkward, top heavy. It will cut about a 4-5" branch. But with two guys it was easier to control as it cut through and started to plummet to earth, lol.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

VinylHanger, what part of Oregon are you in? 

Never thought driving in the Columbia River Gorge and looking at the stripped land as beautiful. The trees will take a 100 years to grow back.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Willamette Valley. I agree, there are some areas that it is a shame to clear cut. Out here though, it is a bit different. They start filling back in in a couple of years, in 20 it nearly looks like they weren't cut.

Not to say I can't appreciate a nice old growth forest. Those are just mind blowing.

But when it comes to the mill farms, I don't really mind as much.

I am speaking as a layman. I'll leave the long term ramifications to the foresters. Though, they seem to miss as much as they hit.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't have an issue either way.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

I own 54 acres in NC. When we bought it, it had been clear cut in 2 stages. About 1/2 in '06 and the other half in '09. We bought it in '11 and put in a driveway and cleared the site for the house in '12 and '13.

Then, most of the growth was small seedlings, brush was the highest, about 6'. You couldn't see through anything, but if you stood on a high point you could see over everything.

In October we were down there and now the trees (pines, gum, maple) are about 20'. Where I could stand on a high point and see across the whole property 2 years ago, now I can't see 10' in front of me. 


There is about 150 acres that was clear cut to one side of me and behind me. Looks like h***, but in a couple years it will be thick and green as can be.


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## BenTaylor (Jan 20, 2016)

I've never had this happen. We usually cut trees down piece by piece from the top down. It's just a lot less risky when you're working in a city.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BenTaylor said:


> I've never had this happen. We usually cut trees down piece by piece from the top down. It's just a lot less risky when you're working in a city.


One of the arborists up here was doing that. He was just finishing a limb cut when a little girl walked under. He tried to grab the piece with his left hand going over the top of the saw, so he cut his arm, but not too bad.


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## TommyVan (Sep 1, 2017)

Had one of those days last night! Started at 5:30 on the job and things went south around 8 at night... Not doing that again


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## chetgoody (Jun 29, 2015)

Not much you can do about a barber chair except to be ready to listen and move fast unless the logger created the problem through something like a Dutchman notch. Escape route planning is of course critical. I haven't seen it happen myself but I know it is a big risk with tree cutting. Unfortunately, there is no way to predict or detect. Praying seems to help.

Chet
A Total Tree Service


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