# I no longer do "free" estimates



## Rock Headed (Nov 8, 2007)

I do paid consultation.

If a job is signed on the spot, during the first meeting say on a rather simple job, then the fee is waved.

If a customer would like a design, job drawing--whether this be an engineering or conceptualizing--there shall also be compensation.

A proffessional should respect his time and respect his trade--and should insist on working with clients who do the same.

My company just did a home show. I explained this to most of the people that I met there. Quite simply, humble yet confident, I said "I am design oriented and not sales oriented. There is no "square foot price". There is no "free" estimates. Each and every job is unique. My time is valuable". Well....I used different words for different people, I tried to gently yet firmly get people to understand and respect my position.

The large majority of them understood, wrote down there contact info.

Mind you, the display that my team and I built was dope. The slideshow of job photos that I had going on showcasing top-notch work also helped.

To do design work for free is insane. Have you ever driven down the road and seen one of your designs--which you gave away for "free" being built by an unskilled team of hacks?

I urge other, professional tradesmen to consider my words.


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

:wallbash: cant tell you how many times I have fallen victim to this. 
good for you on charging. Most people around here would have heart failure if they were to be charged for an estimate. I tried charging 30 dollars for estimates this past fall. One person paid, the rest told me to go F myself. :w00t:
What burns me most is designing something, thinking im a shoe in, then they tell me to go F myself. ehhhhhhhhhhhhh sometimes you eat the bear other times the bear eats you. :blink:


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

Rock Headed said:


> Mind you, the display that my team and I built was dope.


 :blink:

So your for the legalization of Marijuana? 

Odd combo... Mason/activist. But whatever works. :thumbsup:


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

Paulie said:


> :blink:
> 
> So your for the legalization of Marijuana?
> 
> Odd combo... Mason/activist. But whatever works. :thumbsup:


You know all roofers, masons and painters are stoner's :clap:


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

jkfox624 said:


> You know all roofers, masons and painters are stoner's :clap:


I think that's the stereotype.

Now where did I leave my keys :blink:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

jkfox624 said:


> You know all roofers, masons and painters are stoner's :clap:


Sort of a stereotype. I employ no one who can not pass an extensive drug test.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't give estimates. I give a jar of dreams...

For a trip charge of $45


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Mud Master said:


> I don't give estimates. I give a jar of dreams...
> 
> For a trip charge of $45


That's funny:laughing::thumbsup:


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> That's funny:laughing::thumbsup:


Thank you.

I also provide peace of mind and child care services.

TELL YOUR FRIENDS!


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Mud Master said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I also provide peace of mind and child care services.
> 
> TELL YOUR FRIENDS!


I provide emotional babysitting.:laughing:

Mike


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Now you've done it, you've screwed up the whole system. How is Joe going to know how much to pay Manuel if you don't tell him how much the job should cost? How is Mary going to know how much to pay her brother to remodel her bathroom if you don't tell her?


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## Jimmy Cabinet (Jan 22, 2010)

I too can relate. Spend an hour drawing a design up only for them to shop it to those illegal aliens who use Chinese junk products basically makes me a starving artist. 

No more.... New rules this year. Any lead, no matter where it's from, I tell the customer they must come to the showroom first. No longer will we go to their home first. Chasing down dead end leads by dreamers and those who just watched an episode of HGTV got too old and expensive. 

By them coming to me first, that act alone suggests some degree of seriousness. If you don't want to come to see my products then I don't want to come to your house. If you don't want to come to my showroom then chances are about 100% that you never intended to buy. 

I feel like I work a whole lot less on junk leads....that's for damn sure.


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

I am in total agreement with this. So many tire kickers, bored housewives and general cheapo's (I can help! no you can B*&*&R off) 

And some give away their game. I got a call yesterday, HO (who put me on hold twice) he wanted an over the phone quote on exactly 462' of baseboard. Materials, labour the whole works.

Made me suspicious that he's already got someone to do this, why else would he know the exact amount of baseboard?

And its way the heck out in Surrey (miles away) and no one home till after 5pm. Ya, rush hour out to surrey at 5? easily 1 1/2hr drive each way.

aint goin. He doesn't get it, he figures $50 is rediculous. Said he can call lots of other people who'll quote for free. I used to do that, wasted a lot of gas.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Mrmac204 said:


> And its way the heck out in Surrey (miles away) and no one home till after 5pm. Ya, rush hour out to surrey at 5? easily 1 1/2hr drive each way.
> 
> aint goin. He doesn't get it, he figures $50 is rediculous. Said he can call lots of other people who'll quote for free. I used to do that, wasted a lot of gas.


At some point, you've got to consider things service work and just price it by T&M over the phone. If you put in 10% of the total job hours bidding the job something is wrong.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

Mrmac204 said:


> I am in total agreement with this. So many tire kickers, bored housewives and general cheapo's


How do I get into the bored housewives trade? I think I could offer a service that is a valuable commodity and in demand.:whistling


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

sitdwnandhngon said:


> How do I get into the bored housewives trade? I think I could offer a service that is a valuable commodity and in demand.:whistling


After seeing *your* free estimate ya might be passed over for a guy with bigger numbers. :jester:


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## Rock Headed (Nov 8, 2007)

I left this last home show with 30 solid leads...last year we had almost 60. I want a better close percentage, and less grief trying to earn those sales.


A former employer of mine also had a display. In this display a sign:


"sign up today for a free estimate and design!"


This sends out the wrong message.

Desperation. 

Eager sales man just wants to-get-his-foot-in-the-door-for-a-reallyquickminutethiswillonlytakeaminute.

Numbers game--do a million estimates, in order to sell a few.

Bad messages all around.

I'm swimming up stream on this one.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Hang in there! You'll get fewer calls, but close 98% of the ones you get. I just this minute had a call that I prequalified and saved myself a wasted trip. :clap:


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

Dont blame you at all for this. I can only imagine the time that goes into it. If the client isn't bs'n then they should have no issue with this.


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

We started charging $35 at the begining of the year. It's funny how all the tire kickers get upset about this charge. Closing ratios are up, and my expenses (gas) are down. Charging for estimates has been one of the best business descisions I've made.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Must mean me. Sorry. Some things just fly right over my head. :blink:


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*We must be getting delirious*



thom said:


> Who actually does estimates that they provide to their customers? Really, who?
> 
> I did estimates for myself so I knew how to price my proposal. To my customer it was never an estimate, just a fixed price. The customer knew exactly how much they were paying, not just an estimate of what the final price would be.
> 
> How can we expect customers to understand how we work if we can't even use language properly?


We write neither 'estimate' nor 'proposal' on estimates nor on contracts. These words don't matter because what you write is only an estimate or proposal until after it is accepted and signed to create a contract. When you don't write the words 'estimate' or 'proposal' on the contract you don't have to re-write the form and all you need is a signature to create the contract. Save paper and save time before the customer gets cold feet.


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## Rock Headed (Nov 8, 2007)

I started this thread at the beggining of the season. Back in march when I posted this I simply did not know for a fact that it would work out well for me--I felt confident, but not certain.

Six months later and it has been good.

A lot of the responses I got from you guys helped--Pinwheel, I agree about not charging for estimates from customer referals. A homeowner in a neighbohood where I have worked for a few neighbors called. I came with good references and was right around the corner from two past (and future!) clients of mine. No charge for that guy. And yeah, the job was sold, came out well and I got paid well.

Then again, many of the responses I got from y'all maybe missed out on one point--ever get a free quote from a doctor?

My time must be respected, by myself and my client.

My trade must be respected. Masonry. A dying art, some say. A trade which has been greatly devalued (I just deleted a rant about my trade and how it has been devalued--lots of people who may find this thread interesting are themselves in utterly defferent fields, and so I shall keep this all-inclusive. But man, that was some poetry I just deleted.)


.


Six months later and my new tactic has worked well. 

This year has been more successful than last.

Noone who hired me was a mere price shopper.

Noone who hired me was a mere tire-kicker, turned into an actual buyer when fallen victim to my charm (I'm witty and handsome--this can be a bane at times).

I spent patient hours with the awesome people who had me over. They all got a bargain--50.00 for initial consultation? A huge bargain.

See what I am getting at--those who had me over respected my time. Respected me. Respect is a two way street. When the client and you are both on the same side, things just feel better. Not that things have been perfect....dude, that one guy annoyed me that one time. But better.

The year is not over yet, though the busiest part is winding down.



Currently I stand to make roughly equal money compared to last year. I've done this with less strain than last year. And I'm feeling a little bit closer to being happy. Doing paid consultaions rather than free estimates may not be entirely the cause of my current situation. For myself, personally, the paid consultation thing has merely been one part of a paradigm shift--a pivotal part, my attitudes towards business, work, and my clients has changed entirely. It would be absurd to give all the credit to this one small aspect......but it's also difficult for me to imagine having done this major turn-around in how my business works without this one particuliar aspect being in place. 

If any of this sounds boastfull or inspires envy.....I'm still working class man, chill. Depending on how you choose to measure success, many of you guys are kicking my ass. 


Finaly, I can't say what will work for another....I can only report as to my own experiences.


That's all folks.


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