# Safety Tips for Working in Live Panels



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm sure OSHA or someone has a billion page list about this, but let's form a list of safety tips and tricks that you use when working in a live panel. 

I'm in "All Conduit" land, so my tips might not apply to many of you. But I've had many close calls, and let's face it we all work live sometimes, especially when troubleshooting.

1. When pulling new circuits to a live panel, I push my steel tape FROM the panel with both hands on the tape, and when I hit either the box, or an obstruction I carefully wrap the rest of the tape around the conduit or other stable object to check. I never push a steel tape into the panel since most the EMT enters from the top and that's where the main feeders are. I've seen guys who will tape a piece of cardboard over the mains, but with my luck I'd push right through it so I never do it. (Anymore )

2. Whenever possible, I work with ONE hand in the panel and the other behind my back.

3. When piping into a panel with EMT, be mindful of the "piece you just bent". Holding on to that piece, and turning around to pick up a tool could be deadly if it makes contact. Ideally we should install the coupling, install the cover with a couple screws and continue. But nobody will really do that-myself included.

4. Never lean against the panel while working on it.

5. I always ensure that new breakers are turned off when I snap them in and I always do it with one hand behind my back.

6. Check the stability of your ladder before working above a live, open panel. If the ladder starts to tip, your reflexes might kill you when you instinctively grab for support.

7. Rubber soled shoes ONLY, and if there are family pets keep them away. Friendly "Rover" could be make ground when he comes up to lick you.

8. Watch your footing. Many times we stand on a sump pump cover and don't realize it.

9. If the phone rings and you HAVE to answer it, walk away from the panel. None of us drive as well when talking on the phone so you shouldn't be fiddling in the panel distracted either.

10. I never put my tools on the bottom of the panel box. I stick them in my tool belt or pocket.


Please Copy and Paste this list, then add your tips to keep it readable and current. I'll be curious to hear more input.:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

11. Don't work in live panels.



if that's not feasable:

12. Wear fire-resistant clothing.

13. Don your arc-flash suit.

14. Use 1000v insulated tools.

15. Never work live when alone.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> I'm sure OSHA or someone has a billion page list about this, but let's form a list of safety tips and tricks that you use when working in a live panel.
> 
> I'm in "All Conduit" land, so my tips might not apply to many of you. But I've had many close calls, and let's face it we all work live sometimes, especially when troubleshooting.


Wow, no kidding. I rarely work with conduit, so much of your list is "relatively irrelevant" to me. But I'll add a couple.

1. When pulling new circuits to a live panel, I push my steel tape FROM the panel with both hands on the tape, and when I hit either the box, or an obstruction I carefully wrap the rest of the tape around the conduit or other stable object to check. I never push a steel tape into the panel since most the EMT enters from the top and that's where the main feeders are. I've seen guys who will tape a piece of cardboard over the mains, but with my luck I'd push right through it so I never do it. (Anymore )

2. Whenever possible, I work with ONE hand in the panel and the other behind my back.

3. When piping into a panel with EMT, be mindful of the "piece you just bent". Holding on to that piece, and turning around to pick up a tool could be deadly if it makes contact. Ideally we should install the coupling, install the cover with a couple screws and continue. But nobody will really do that-myself included.

4. Never lean against the panel while working on it.

5. I always ensure that new breakers are turned off when I snap them in and I always do it with one hand behind my back.

6. Check the stability of your ladder before working above a live, open panel. If the ladder starts to tip, your reflexes might kill you when you instinctively grab for support.

7. Rubber soled shoes ONLY, and if there are family pets keep them away. Friendly "Rover" could be make ground when he comes up to lick you.

8. Watch your footing. Many times we stand on a sump pump cover and don't realize it.

9. If the phone rings and you HAVE to answer it, walk away from the panel. None of us drive as well when talking on the phone so you shouldn't be fiddling in the panel distracted either.

10. I never put my tools on the bottom of the panel box. I stick them in my tool belt or pocket.

11. If the area isn't well lit, take the time to set up good lighting. You will not only get that time back in terms of increased efficiency, it could actually save your life. [In the same vein, carry a pocket light that tastes good.]

12. Do not work in a live panel if someone nearby is likely to use a nail gun at unexpected moments.


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## Calisota (Apr 15, 2011)

Not being a certified Sparky, I'll just thank you all now for giving two bits about the rest of us "box pokers". :thumbup:

-Rubber suit
-Kill the main
-Little buddy ready with an 8' 2x4

My hack days are over!


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

13.Tape the end of your cable when pulling it in to the panel & Strip your cable after it is pulled into the panel-eliminating the chance for hitting the buss or breaker lugs with your ground wire.
14. shut off the row of breakers next to the ground bar when bringing in a new ground wire.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Tag the breaker switch if you are working on a circuit and have it shut off? So other trades don't flip it on looking for power?


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

I would also like to add, though primarily for non-electricians

16. If you open a panel and figure out that you really don't know what you're doing, put the panel cover back in place, throw away the 'Electrical for Dummies' book, and call a real electrican


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## Plumbing Zombie (Jun 11, 2011)

Use a rubber matt, 3/4" thick, 3'x3' to stand on, not only for shock protection, but standing on concrete all day hurts a little less like this.

Square drive tip drivers with insulated shaft. Most manufacturers use combination head screws now. Square drive is a no-slip safe alternative to slotted and far quicker.

A clean dry sweat towel for those hot mechanical rooms. If you wipe sweat with a glove or bare wrist, the salt can and will attract an arc.

And this should be common sense but triple check to make sure you have the right neutral before you loosen that screw and that the load has been removed--zap!

Be wary of nearby conductors to ground, especially copper water lines. Yes, including gas piping and cast iron waste and vent lines.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Wait until there is a severe thunderstorm and power failure, get a big 12v flashlight, go to work. Problem solved


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> 1. When pulling new circuits to a live panel, I push my steel tape FROM the panel with both hands on the tape, and when I hit either the box, or an obstruction I carefully wrap the rest of the tape around the conduit or other stable object to check. I never push a steel tape into the panel since most the EMT enters from the top and that's where the main feeders are. I've seen guys who will tape a piece of cardboard over the mains, but with my luck I'd push right through it so I never do it. (Anymore )


Do you guys use steel fish tapes that often? Ever since I zapped myself from fishing into a live electrical box I use mostly fiberglass.

I find for fishing walls and ceilings my LSD glow rods are a lot faster, and for fishing conduit fiberglass works great.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Do you guys use steel fish tapes that often? Ever since I zapped myself from fishing into a live electrical box I use mostly fiberglass.
> 
> I find for fishing walls and ceilings my LSD glow rods are a lot faster, and for fishing conduit fiberglass works great.


On a long run, my fiberglass ones have been broken many times. As stupid as it seems, most the guys around here use steel.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

If you're pushing a fishtape into a live panel, just use a PVC female terminal adapter on the threads of the connector, then a PVC plug. When your tape stops, remove the adapter/plug and there's your fish tape. :whistling


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Although, I don't do that much panel tapping, I don't see a situation where you would be running your steel fish tape into a DP. Why not disco the conduit or not connect it in the first place, feed the wires through then connect the conduit. Poking a steel tape into a live panel seems insane


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> 7. Rubber soled shoes ONLY, and if there are family pets keep them away. Friendly "Rover" could be make ground when he comes up to lick you.


This I'm not so sure about. I've been zapped through rubber soled shoes when standing on concrete subfloor (through the carpet, and my shoes). Electrician I worked with told me that he wasn't sure why, but he thought it may have to do with the composition of the rubber.

He then told me something surprising - you won't get zapped standing on a wood subfloor. He was right, I was sitting on a wood floor troubleshooting something, and the hot sprung out of my hand and hit me with bare copper. No zap.

When pulling through conduit to a live panel, we worked from the panel, but we also pulled the wire with the conduit not attached to the panel yet. We'd then tape the ends of the wire, cut off enough, and push it through and hook up the conduit if possible. That way your fish tape is never even in the box.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> carry a pocket light that tastes good.


:laughing: Do they make any that taste good? I've never found one ...


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> Although, I don't do that much panel tapping, I don't see a situation where you would be running your steel fish tape into a DP. Why not disco the conduit or not connect it in the first place, feed the wires through then connect the conduit. Poking a steel tape into a live panel seems insane


That is why I push FROM the panel, and never TO it. Even if you have a helper with his "thumb over the conduit opening in the panel, it's risky. It might be the wrong pipe, and if he gets "distracted" (happened with an exceptionally foolish helper once) it could turn out bad. It almost did for me.

This is why I started the thread.:thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> That is why I push FROM the panel, and never TO it. Even if you have a helper with his "thumb over the conduit opening in the panel, it's risky. It might be the wrong pipe, and if he gets "distracted" (happened with an exceptionally foolish helper once) it could turn out bad. It almost did for me.
> 
> This is why I started the thread.:thumbsup:



See post #12. :whistling


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

when working on anything live, i think it's best practice to connect the grounding conductor first, then the grounded conductor, and then the ungrounded conductor(s) last.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Here’s our list to date:

1.	When pulling new circuits to a live panel, I push my steel tape FROM the panel with both hands on the tape, and when I hit either the box, or an obstruction I carefully wrap the rest of the tape around the conduit or other stable object to check. I never push a steel tape into the panel since most the EMT enters from the top and that's where the main feeders are. I've seen guys who will tape a piece of cardboard over the mains, but with my luck I'd push right through it so I never do it. (Anymore )

2. Whenever possible, I work with ONE hand in the panel and the other behind my back.

3. When piping into a panel with EMT, be mindful of the "piece you just bent". Holding on to that piece, and turning around to pick up a tool could be deadly if it makes contact. Ideally we should install the coupling, install the cover with a couple screws and continue. But nobody will really do that-myself included.

4. Never lean against the panel while working on it.

5. I always ensure that new breakers are turned off when I snap them in and I always do it with one hand behind my back.

6. Check the stability of your ladder before working above a live, open panel. If the ladder starts to tip, your reflexes might kill you when you instinctively grab for support.

7. Rubber soled shoes ONLY, and if there are family pets keep them away. Friendly "Rover" could be make ground when he comes up to lick you.

8. Watch your footing. Many times we stand on a sump pump cover and don't realize it.

9. If the phone rings and you HAVE to answer it, walk away from the panel. None of us drive as well when talking on the phone so you shouldn't be fiddling in the panel distracted either.

10. I never put my tools on the bottom of the panel box. I stick them in my tool belt or pocket.

11. If the area isn't well lit, take the time to set up good lighting. You will not only get that time back in terms of increased efficiency, it could actually save your life. [In the same vein, carry a pocket light that tastes good.]

12. Do not work in a live panel if someone nearby is likely to use a nail gun at unexpected moments. 
13.Tape the end of your cable when pulling it in to the panel & Strip your cable after it is pulled into the panel-eliminating the chance for hitting the buss or breaker lugs with your ground wire.

14. shut off the row of breakers next to the ground bar when bringing in a new ground wire.

15. Tag the breaker switch if you are working on a circuit and have it shut off? So other trades don't flip it on looking for power?

16. If you open a panel and figure out that you really don't know what you're doing, put the panel cover back in place, throw away the 'Electrical for Dummies' book, and call a real electrician

17.Use a rubber matt, 3/4" thick, 3'x3' to stand on, not only for shock protection, but standing on concrete all day hurts a little less like this.

18.Square drive tip drivers with insulated shaft. Most manufacturers use combination head screws now. Square drive is a no-slip safe alternative to slotted and far quicker.

19.A clean dry sweat towel for those hot mechanical rooms. If you wipe sweat with a glove or bare wrist, the salt can and will attract an arc.

20.And this should be common sense but triple check to make sure you have the right neutral before you loosen that screw and that the load has been removed--zap!

21.Be wary of nearby conductors to ground, especially copper water lines. Yes, including gas piping and cast iron waste and vent lines.

22. If you're pushing a fishtape into a live panel, just use a PVC female terminal adapter on the threads of the connector, then a PVC plug. When your tape stops, remove the adapter/plug and there's your fish tape. 

23. Why not disco the conduit or not connect it in the first place, feed the wires through then connect the conduit.

24.He then told me something surprising - you won't get zapped standing on a wood subfloor. He was right, I was sitting on a wood floor troubleshooting something, and the hot sprung out of my hand and hit me with bare copper. No zap.

25.When pulling through conduit to a live panel, we worked from the panel, but we also pulled the wire with the conduit not attached to the panel yet. We'd then tape the ends of the wire, cut off enough, and push it through and hook up the conduit if possible. That way your fish tape is never even in the box.

26. when working on anything live, i think it's best practice to connect the grounding conductor first, then the grounded conductor, and then the ungrounded conductor(s) last.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

with all those rules your probably better off hiring a lectrician:sad:


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