# Anyone else own rental homes?



## works4me (Sep 1, 2007)

I am a full time contractor (smaller business - 1 full time & 1 part time workers) but when I started out I bought some fixer uppers, they are currently rentals for me. Not a slum lord but not high end either. They are generating a low cash flow right now and yes there are some (alot of headaches) problems that go with rentals. But they are almost paid off now and can generate 20+k per year (after taxes), not to mention the equity in the homes. It was hard to start them (financing when you are young is tough - esp. when self employed), but some banks worked with me. So, being young and ambitious paid off for me (wish I had bought 20 of them ). 
So, now I am considering several more, even possibly a four to eight unit building. Does anyone else own several rentals and it is working out well for them? I don't necessarily need the monthly income from them, they would be more of an investment for retirement. It also gives me some place to send the guys to work in the winter when it slows down (if I get a fixer upper in winter). Anyone else making money doing this on the side? Now, I'm not as young, still ambitious, better off financially, but I am hesitating to buy more properties (not sure why).


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

There is no better investment than real estate. How much fun will it be to have $1,000,000 or more of equity and $5000 a month of free and clear rental income coming in when you are ready to retire?:thumbsup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

works4me said:


> So, now I am considering several more, even possibly a four to eight unit building.


Unless you want full-time LL status....avoid the multi-unit properties.
Here's a couple of whys?

- Some areas require an on-site super/manager ....could be a good thing - IF you find the right individual.

- Rent control.
Many areas fall under rent control guidelines (for that area) when the property goes above a certain number of units.

The rent control issue would be my number 1 reason to stay small. In my area here in NJ, buildings over 4 units fall into the the rent control category. If you did not perform your due diligence, you would be in a for a hellacious ride.
The ride starts in the beginning with the building's price tag vs. the annual income(rent)....many times the previous owner has not maintained the building properly (true slum lord) and this burden will fall onto the new owner....and there goes your profits.


- Future sale.
Smaller properties are (usually)easier to sell. "First time home buyers" get all excited about buying a smaller building and calculating how much they "will make" vs. how much they had been paying for rent. If you decide that you need really need to take a year off from ALL work, you can sell ONE property (while retaining the others) and still have that nest egg.


The big multi's are obviously not complete money pits....but you need a higher level of LL/T skills then when dealing with smaller properties.

Are you at that higher skill level?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Two investment strategies -

Appreciation or income 

g e n e r a l l y....

Single family homes will appreciate better than multi-units

multi-units will produce income better than single family homes

Town homes and condos can straddle both sides of the appreciation / income equation if purchased in the right areas


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I have a few, but here's a tip if you're interested in getting into larger buildings. Bigger than 2 units in the same building, and you get into a whole different set of codes and standards. This can sometimes get expensive. For instance, in one 6-unit building, the fire inspector wants a fire alarm system for all the common areas, with pull stations, horns, and strobes. Building somehow got through all these years without lighted exit signs. I can do all this work myself legally, but if I had to pay someone, I'd be in the 4-5K area for that unplanned expense.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> I have a few, but here's a tip if you're interested in getting into larger buildings. Bigger than 2 units in the same building, and you get into a whole different set of codes and standards.


Building codes are bizarre...
I had a 4 family (just below the rent control threshold :thumbsup that had 2 units over 2 units and a common hallway/stairwell. (2 stories, 4 units)

I had a 3 family walk up and had a common stairwell (3 stories, 3 units)

Which property had the "stricter" code?




mdshunk said:


> I can do all this work myself legally, but if I had to pay someone, I'd be in the 4-5K area for that unplanned expense.


What a scam....you paid Mdshunk Elec to do the job, and wrote it off on Marc's 1040 ....:laughing:


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## newguy07 (Sep 22, 2007)

I will like to eventually own a single family rental or possibly a multifamily rental.

Also, what about commerical office builds?


I like listening to everybodys input on this. Good information


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## newguy07 (Sep 22, 2007)

Celtic said:


> - Rent control.
> Many areas fall under rent control guidelines (for that area) when the property goes above a certain number of units.


 
Is rent control just usually up north? I never heard of rent control down in florida.


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## copusbuilder (Nov 8, 2005)

I have been working on vacation rentals. The one we finished last year was bringing in an average of $1600 a month and that is weekend rentals with no full weeks, and it is off the water. That was a mid June completion so we were very happy for a first year with a late start.

Little wear and tear, great people to date. Working on number two right now. This is on the water and should do better and bring in more $$.

What is a more natural fit than a contractor and real estate. No one can maintain a property cheaper or build cheaper.

I always say use your strengths in business:thumbsup:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

newguy07 said:


> Also, what about commerical office builds?


In my observations, that's a rough gig. Retail space and office space can sit empty for years and years in between tennants.


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## newguy07 (Sep 22, 2007)

copusbuilder said:


> What is a more natural fit than a contractor and real estate. No one can maintain a property cheaper or build cheaper.
> 
> I always say use your strengths in business:thumbsup:


 
I always thought that but everybody I seen that does real estate is usually a doctor or lawyer..


Oh well.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

copusbuilder said:


> I have been working on vacation rentals. The one we finished last year was bringing in an average of $1600 a month and that is weekend rentals with no full weeks, and it is off the water. That was a mid June completion so we were very happy for a first year with a late start.


Up here in NJ, $1600/wk for a shore rental - NOTHING fancy....




copusbuilder said:


> Little wear and tear, great people to date. Working on number two right now. This is on the water and should do better and bring in more $$.


...and trashed by last week's occupants.




copusbuilder said:


> What is a more natural fit than a contractor and real estate. No one can maintain a property cheaper or build cheaper.
> 
> I always say use your strengths in business:thumbsup:


Yup...a perfect fit - just as long as you are willing to learn the LL/T rules.


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## newguy07 (Sep 22, 2007)

Is there any laws to protect you from trashing tenants? I think that would be the most problem landlords would face.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

newguy07 said:


> Is there any laws to protect you from trashing tenants? I think that would be the most problem landlords would face.


Very few. If it's outright vandalism, then they can just get picked up by the police. If it's just a couple years of living like pigs and never cleaning up, then there's nothing overtly criminal in that. You keep the deposit, send them a bill for the difference, and then take them to the local court if they don't pay. The judge will always side in your favor if you have your ducks in a row, and he'll order the people to pay you something rediculous like 50 bucks a month for the next 10 years. Section 8 rentals are a bit easier when it comes to damages, since the government will square you away.

Part of the trick is seperating out "normal wear and tear" from damages. Fingerprints on the walls and traffic marks on the carpeting is not damages. That's pretty normal. A big hole punched in the wall or a big Kool-Aid stain on the carpet is damages.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

newguy07 said:


> Is rent control just usually up north? I never heard of rent control down in florida.



Here ya go:
*Rent Control Laws by State - NMHC.org

**States with Rent Control:
*California
District of Columbia
Maryland
New Jersey<~~~~
 New York

*States that Preempt Rent Control:
*Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Connecticut
Florida <~~~~
 Georgia
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Oregon
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming

*States with No Rent Control/No Preemption:
*Alaska
Delaware
Hawaii
Maine
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
West Virginia

*********

State links seem to take you right to the State's statutes.(At least NJ and FL did)


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## newguy07 (Sep 22, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> Very few. If it's outright vandalism, then they can just get picked up by the police. If it's just a couple years of living like pigs and never cleaning up, then there's nothing overtly criminal in that. You keep the deposit, send them a bill for the difference, and then take them to the local court if they don't pay. The judge will always side in your favor if you have your ducks in a row, and he'll order the people to pay you something rediculous like 50 bucks a month for the next 10 years. Section 8 rentals are a bit easier when it comes to damages, since the government will square you away.
> 
> Part of the trick is seperating out "normal wear and tear" from damages. Fingerprints on the walls and traffic marks on the carpeting is not damages. That's pretty normal. A big hole punched in the wall or a big Kool-Aid stain on the carpet is damages.


I understand. I always though before a tenant change the apartment complexes or whatever always paint and change carpet. At least all the apartments I moved into were freshley painted and new carpets.


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## copusbuilder (Nov 8, 2005)

Celtic said:


> Up here in NJ, $1600/wk for a shore rental - NOTHING fancy....
> This ain't Jersey. We all know Jersey is tops.:whistling That was for weekend rentals a total of 8 nights. Not on the water. Re-read
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

newguy07 said:


> I understand. I always though before a tenant change the apartment complexes or whatever always paint and change carpet. At least all the apartments I moved into were freshley painted and new carpets.


Depends on how long the person lived there. You could say that I grew up in the rental business. If the person lived there a good while, the place would get completely repainted and probably most or all of the rugs changed. If they didn't live there so long, maybe just the rugs need cleaned and the walls washed down here and there. Maybe a few walls for repainting. The goal is to just clean the place in between tennants.


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## newguy07 (Sep 22, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> Depends on how long the person lived there. You could say that I grew up in the rental business. If the person lived there a good while, the place would get completely repainted and probably most or all of the rugs changed. If they didn't live there so long, maybe just the rugs need cleaned and the walls washed down here and there. Maybe a few walls for repainting. The goal is to just clean the place in between tennants.


 
I understand. Thanks a lot.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

newguy07 said:


> Is there any laws to protect you from trashing tenants? I think that would be the most problem landlords would face.


It's called their security deposit and small claims court....but good luck getting a judgment paid from someone with no money.




mdshunk said:


> Section 8 rentals are a bit easier when it comes to damages, since the government will square you away.


Not true.
Section 8 is a gov't program to that unites LL w/tenants ...the gov't pays a portion of the rent due the LL.
If the T trashes your unit, the gov't (the housing authorty) has NO OBLIGATION to help the LL recover ANY money.
If the T doesn't pay their portion of the rent, the gov't (the housing authorty) has NO OBLIGATION to help the LL recover ANY money.

Now the gov't *may* make it difficult for a bad tenant to get assistance, but let's not mislead anyone that the gov't is going to help in any other way.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

I wouldnt recomend a apartment building unless you have about 1 million to spend to get a high end unit. The cheaper apartments only get rented by trash. I know because I got involved with a 7 unit. Houses are way better because you get better tenents. Here over 4 units is considered commercial so the taxes and insurence+ repairs take about 100% of your income, maybe more.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

I wouldn't necessarily knock the "slum" type apt. buildings.
All people need a place to call "home"...the rents on the crap is usually a bit higher per sq.ft than a "nice" place.
With a "nice" place you want to keep them there.
With a "slum" you want to maintain a level of capital.

The crap will sell for less than nice due the inherent "problems" with the tenants....BUT...if there was no money to made in a slum - would there be any slums?


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

I had some last winter not pay the electric bill so the power was shut off to their apartment. They had a extension cord run from a strage room to their apartment. They had teh power shut off a month or 2 before and I wondered why the electric bill for that month went from $30 to $107. These people will steal and destroy everything. And no pets, every time I mow the yard my tractor gets covered in dog . The apartment will have to be bombed because of flees and there will be crap, urine and the place will be scratched up. NO ANIMALS but they will get a animal anyways.

If you want to see some pictures of what these people will do PM me your email address. I have pics that will make you want to vomit.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Michaeljp86 said:


> I had some last winter not pay the electric bill so the power was shut off to their apartment. They had a extension cord run from a strage room to their apartment. They had teh power shut off a month or 2 before and I wondered why the electric bill for that month went from $30 to $107.


Many POCO's will NOT turn off the power during winter months - more like they are not ALLOWED to. That is the case here in NJ and I am sure every bottom dweller takes full advantage of this "feature" of the POCO.

My contracts state that having the utilities turned OFF is grounds for eviction - and the State agrees....a property w/o utilities is UNINHABITABLE.







Michaeljp86 said:


> And no pets, every time I mow the yard my tractor gets covered in dog . The apartment will have to be bombed because of flees and there will be crap, urine and the place will be scratched up. NO ANIMALS but they will get a animal anyways.


My NO PET clause allows for an eviction based on a pet appearing on site. I had a young couple give birth to a cat one week....I verbally told them "The cat goes or you all go"....and showed them the clause in the contract. The "man of the house" said they were just "pet sitting" for a few days....Not here you're not. The cat or all of you go.....The cat went....where? I'm not sure, nor do I care.

You must be FIRM. No need to be hostile or threatening. Some people are great at "reading" other people. If they even sense 1 bit of uncertainty in you, they will walk all over you.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Many POCO's will NOT turn off the power during winter months - more like they are not ALLOWED to. That is the case here in NJ and I am sure every bottom dweller takes full advantage of this "feature" of the POCO.
> 
> My contracts state that having the utilities turned OFF is grounds for eviction - and the State agrees....a property w/o utilities is UNINHABITABLE.
> 
> ...


They did shut the power off, they shut it off to that apartment 2 times last winter and shut off another apartment once.

Some people are good at reading people. I found I have this gift, so far Ive been right on the head 100% of the time about these people. One guy he let rent there I said hes a bad guy I wouldnt let him in. After a month I had a police friend look him up, he was a convict who just got released for armed robery and battery. He did keep a clean place but lied non stop.

Another was a guy 21 years old. I said hes going to destroy the place and not pay his rent. My dad said oh he gets $900 a month disability he can afford it. Rent was $325 a month, the 3rd month he didnt pay and my dad didnt evict him. He got behind well over $600 and then took off and destroyed the apartment and was covered in meth rashes.

Another guy was a fireman, I said the same thing, my dad even let the guy in with no money. He did atleast $5000 in damage and never payed his rent and was behind $800 not counting $5 a day late fee. He went to a lawer trying to get to stay as long as he could rent free. And dog crap all over the place. 

My dad screws around trying to be nice. I say throw them out right away. But I have been right in knowing who the scum is and whos a better person. I guess I should use my talent and get into the rental business. But I want dueplexes because they have less trouble around here then apartments.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

For me rentals have been a "sometimes ugly"
part time job/investment. Looking back I could have done better with other types of investment instruments and I could have done worse. Bottom line= It's a crapshoot. 

"Exposure to lawsuits" and with regard to that "net worth" is another factor to put into the equation. Of course we generally accept high exposure anyway.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Michaeljp86 said:


> Some people are good at reading people. I found I have this gift, so far Ive been right on the head 100% of the time about these people. One guy he let rent there I said hes a bad guy I wouldnt let him in. After a month I had a police friend look him up, he was a convict who just got released for armed robery and battery. He did keep a clean place but lied non stop.


You don't run background checks?
Even the specter of a check, will cause the worst to say that don't want the place "on second thought"....the check is not free - and they aren't going to actually pay someone to tell them they are a bag of sheet :laughing:

For the NJ guys these are 2 *[FREE]* great resources:
Offender Search Web Page


> The purpose of the Offender Search Web Page is to promote public safety and welfare while providing community access to selected offender information, consistent with the spirit and intent of the New Jersey Open Public Records Act (OPRA).


From the NJ DOC ....it ain't perfect, but it DOES work...I've seen some of the guys I grew up in their files :shifty:



New Jersey Sex Offender Internet Registry
From the NJ State Police....an awesome tool....


> New Jersey law authorizes the Division of State Police to make available to the public over the Internet information about certain sex offenders required to register under Megan's Law. The sex offender Internet registry law can be found in the New Jersey Code at 2C:7-12 to -19.


...you can check your own neighborhood, a city you are planning on moving to, etc.

BUT...


> *Prohibitions on Misuse of Registry Information*
> 
> Consistent with this public safety purpose of Megan's Law, the Internet registry law expressly prohibits the use of registry information for the purpose of applying for, obtaining, or denying health insurance, insurance, loans, credit, education, scholarships or fellowships, benefits privileges or services provided by any business establishment (unless for a purpose consistent with the enhancement of public safety), or housing or accommodations.
> The law also makes it a crime, punishable by a term of imprisonment between three and five years and a fine of up to $15,000, to use registry information to commit a criminal offense, and makes it a disorderly persons offense, punishable by a fine of up to $1,000, to use registry information to commit any disorderly persons or petty disorderly persons offense. These charges would be in addition to any charges related to the underlying criminal act committed.


I've got a few more "personal" favorites up my sleeve :thumbsup: ....once I had a LL from Colorado contact me about a potential renter he was considering....the potential told the LL his former address and who the LL was ~ I provided documentation to the Colorado LL that showed otherwise ...the former "LL" was actually the potential's brother-in-law and didn't own the property at the former address. :laughing:
No doubt I saved that Colorado LL some cash and headaches.:clap:


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Tenant Landlord laws vary so much state to state that anything said here should be considered only applicable to that particular posters state. My state is Landlord friendly which works to my advantage and sometimes to the tenants advantage. I can be less concerned with deposits and background checks because I can boot someone out really really fast and they know it. 

I used to check into a landlord forum but found that reading about a TL dispute in Mississippi had no relevance to me. 

Last time I looked at the Sex offenders registry I checked out some of the small towns in NJ that I grew up around. Some of the towns did not have one SO listed. I'm reasonably certain that they are just not reporting.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

K2eoj said:


> I used to check into a landlord forum but found that reading about a TL dispute in Mississippi had no relevance to me.


One of the best LL/T experiences I EVER had was the first time I took Sir Habitual late Payer to court....this was my first time going to LL/T court...I got there early and listened to all the sheet that BOTH LL and T's pull...a real eyeopener.





K2eoj said:


> Last time I looked at the Sex offenders registry I checked out some of the small towns in NJ that I grew up around. Some of the towns did not have one SO listed. I'm reasonably certain that they are just not reporting.


Not every town has a SO living in there.
However..... 


There are 3 "tiers" to the system...


> This sex offender Internet registry includes information pertaining to sex offenders determined to pose a relatively high risk of re-offense *(tier 3 offenders) *and, with certain exceptions, information about sex offenders found to pose a moderate risk of re-offense *(tier 2 offenders)*.
> _The Internet registry excludes any information about offenders determined to present a low risk of re-offense _*(tier 1 offenders).*


*

*Tier 3 offenders....also get the distinction of having their neighbors and the local schools notified.

Tier 2 offenders have notifications sent to all the schools.


IMHO, still a useful tool.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Celtic said:


> IMHO, still a useful tool.


It'd be better if they just left them in jail. Put them on the streets and let the landlords, schools , parents watch them instead of paid guards. Great!!


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

> One of the best LL/T experiences I EVER had was the first time I took Sir Habitual late Payer to court....this was my first time going to LL/T court...I got there early and listened to all the sheet that BOTH LL and T's pull...a real eyeopener.


I remember some New England blond witch took me to court here in Colorado. The lady judge gave her such an a$$ chewing that the witch practically ran out of the courtroom whining that "That's not how they do it in Massachusetts" Sometimes I love Colorado.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

K2eoj said:


> I remember some New England blond witch took me to court here in Colorado. The lady judge gave her such an a$$ chewing that the witch practically ran out of the courtroom whining that "That's not how they do it in Massachusetts" Sometimes I love Colorado.



Never heard a more convincing argument to know the laws in the state where the property is at :thumbsup:


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Seems to be one of those catch 22's. If I can throw the bum out in 3 days I might let him in with little or no deposit and he might turn out not to be a bum. I have some 18 year tenants now and my small deposit and my month to month lease is very important to them. My per ft. rent is high. Not as high as NJ however.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

Lots of useful inofrmation here. The best and I hope everyone is getting this..Is that LL&T laws ARE NOT universal and constantly change. For those of you using Property Managers, Great For You! A Property Managers Job is to aleviate the headaches for the Landlord. 

In the properties we manage, the tennants do not get the owners name. We create dba's associated with the property address that the tennants pay rent to. Of course they could go to the tax office and find out, but they don't. We have found that tennants who were formally bad, became good tennants once they stopped dealing directly with the owners. 

They also like the ablilty to call 24/7 and get immediate results if they have a problem. It is very hard for a Landlord to arrive at a unit with a problem and Not Already Be pissed off that he has to spend money on a repair. The attitude is quickly read by the tennants who are also annoyed that there is a problem. We we arrive to fix something, they know we are there for THEM! Seems to make all the difference.

So, if you are in the rental game.. 1)Either employe a Realtor who specializes in rentals. It will be their job to screen tennants and give that info to you. Or 2)hire a Property Management Company. Even if you do the repairs yourself. Let them collect the rent and don't let anyone know you are the owner. Its easy for me to say to a tennant , You have to Pay on Time or I have to evict. Its my job! Its much harder for you to say. You have to pay your rent because if you don't I can't make the mortgage payment and rake in all the dough you think I am making. 3) Hire a lawyer to make you a check list to do it all yourself.

Rental Properties are about Cash Flow and Appreciation. The cash flow is what enables you to pay your debts on the property and hopefully make a few extra dollars. The appreciation comes when you go to sell the property.

With larges buildings, it is about Factoring. The cost of the building is based on rent roll, adjustable costs such as operating costs, repairs and fixed costs, such as taxes. We take all those numbers (there are dozens and dozens of them) and come up with a factor. That is how the building is appraized and ultimatelly sold.

Here is the real trick. The way you make money with a large building (and I am talking multi unit buildings around 10+ units, mostly in the 50 to 100 units around here) is to change that Factor. The obvious way is to of course Increase the rent. But this is also the hardest with leases having to expire and be re written. The easist is to reduce the operating costs, but if that is done incorrectly, the buinding gets run down. Getting a Tax Credit, (you can Buy Tax Credits, did you know that? ) Rezoning, Building conversions, to Co-Op or Condo or adding some commercial, Improving the building to reduce operating costs. These are the means of the real Factor Player.

Multi Unit Building have nothing to do with the profit from the rent that you might get. This also applies to Large Commercial Spaces, such as office buildings and Malls. 

So why dont all landlords improve their large buildings like this? Taxes. I have some who need Income Producing Properties and I have others who NEED DEBT! Money Pitts. Somewhere to hide income for a while because another property is making too much! Yes, too much is a problem. 

Finally, if you are in the Rental Property Game, don't use any old Realtor when you are ready to sell. IN FACT You should NEVER NEVER sell a commercial property. Yep, thats right, you don't sell them...YOU EXCHANGE THEM through a 1031 Property Exchange. I can exchange an income producing Horse Farm In New York for a 50 unit office building in Texas. Or 5 Single Family Rental Homes for an Industrial Park in Florida. A Trailer Park in Idaho for a High Rise in New Jersey. The biggest reason for that is you can only depreciate Commercial Properties for 28 years. So most investors sell them either after they change the Factor number or in about 10-15 years.

Have fun Investing and Put Your Team Together. (Contractor, Lawyer, Realtor, Account.)


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Digger1799 said:


> Yep, thats right, you don't sell them...YOU EXCHANGE THEM through a 1031 Property Exchange. I can exchange an .... Trailer Park in Idaho for a High Rise in New Jersey.


What's a trailer park in Idaho go for now?
:laughing:


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## Second Look (Jan 13, 2007)

Digger1799 said:


> Yep, thats right, you don't sell them...YOU EXCHANGE THEM through a 1031 Property Exchange.


An outright exchange is no longer required. It's quite common to sell one prop, and pay a 1031 administrator to escrow the proceeds until closing on the new property.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Second Look said:


> It's rarely done that way anymore, at least for small multi-families or rental houses. Nowadays, people sell one prop, and pay a 1031 administrator to escrow the proceeds until they close on the new property.


I didn't know you had to escrow. I thought you had 12 months to get the new property???


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

K2eoj said:


> I didn't know you had to escrow. I thought you had 12 months to get the new property???


:whistling

SEE that why you need an expert. The 1031 Exchange must be done PRIOR to closing. If you close without putting the sale into the facilitators escrow account, you just lost the tax savings. 

You can not Exchange after the sale. Must be done prior to the sale.:blink:

SECOND LOOK: An outright exchange is no longer required. It's quite common to sell one prop, and pay a 1031 administrator to escrow the proceeds until closing on the new property.

I think or thaought, thats the point I was making with the Trailer Park References :thumbup:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Digger1799 said:


> hire a Property Management Company. Even if you do the repairs yourself. Let them collect the rent and don't let anyone know you are the owner. Its easy for me to say to a tennant , You have to Pay on Time or I have to evict. Its my job! Its much harder for you to say. You have to pay your rent because if you don't I can't make the mortgage payment and rake in all the dough you think I am making.


I don't collect the rent in person, like I said I don't do low end rentals, that's just not for me. But I certainly agree with the 3rd party mentality. I used to let tenants know I was the owner. Never again. Now it's the all about "They"

"They want an extra $450 security deposit", "They need you to move out"

Never me. You need to be their friend and let "them" be the bad guys. Tenants play a lot less games that way and have a personal connection to you as if you are on their side, you're one of them, you're just a working stiff like them instead of a multi-millionaire who they know won't miss their rent payment one bit. Funny how all renters think the landlord is as rich as Donald Trump. Few renters realize that most landlords are working stiffs like them, busting their humps working on their own version of the American dream just like them.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

> SEE that why you need an expert. The 1031 Exchange must be done PRIOR to closing. If you close without putting the sale into the facilitators escrow account, you just lost the tax savings.


Well of course you use a cpa or a tax attorney if only because the rules change from year to year. I would never consider a realtor as an expert either... Sounds like those escrow rules may be fairly recent or I just never paid attention.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Covering your Ass....ets might make a good thread . If nobody wants to start i will but not today.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

K2eoj said:


> I like month to month leases. It's alot easier to get them out and very rearly will someone move in and then turn around and move again. Moving is a pain. I have some 15 year people that will tell me that the month to month thing is very important to them just in case they should want to move. :w00t:
> .


How do you do a month to month lease and with that how long does it take to get them out?

Here a hotel can throw you out the next day. A apartment you have to get a paper from the courthouse. Then after 30 days if they are still there you bring the paper to the court house to evict them. The court takes their time, 30 days or more. The court wont throw them out just set a court date which is 30 days or more away, they just have someone stop over and serve them court papers. So they get 90 days rent free easy. If they have kids the court can give them up to 1 year to move out.

I heard there is something called a possesion of property you give them and they have to be out in like 3 days. Thats if you have to tear the apartment or house apart to work on something and they cant live their while you work. But the woman at the courthouse are a bunch of butt wipes and dont want to talk to you, they will even tell you to shut up if your asking a question. Come to think of it everyone at the courthouse is a jerk. :furious:


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## BigJon3475 (Oct 15, 2007)

Seems as though some of you guys aren't following fair housing laws.


On a month to month basis we put the rental rate at market rent (if they are getting any discounts for signing a long term lease). We also have an extra charge since we require 60 days written notice and someone going month to month doesn't require a notice. It's a low fee though and may not even be worth it for you. $50 or less which varies with companies some don't charge any extra.


To get them out is the same process as if they were on a long term lease.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Michaeljp86 said:


> How do you do a month to month lease and with that how long does it take to get them out?
> 
> Here a hotel can throw you out the next day. A apartment you have to get a paper from the courthouse. Then after 30 days if they are still there you bring the paper to the court house to evict them. The court takes their time, 30 days or more. The court wont throw them out just set a court date which is 30 days or more away, they just have someone stop over and serve them court papers. So they get 90 days rent free easy. If they have kids the court can give them up to 1 year to move out.
> 
> I heard there is something called a possesion of property you give them and they have to be out in like 3 days. Thats if you have to tear the apartment or house apart to work on something and they cant live their while you work. But the woman at the courthouse are a bunch of butt wipes and dont want to talk to you, they will even tell you to shut up if your asking a question. Come to think of it everyone at the courthouse is a jerk. :furious:


I put month to month on top of the lease and can have a court date in about a week and a half with eviction with the sherriff the following day. We also have "tenancy at will" which is probably what hotels use but i have never actually tried it. 

I also make it clear that the lease is terminated at the end of each month and they agree to move out unless I extend the lease by accepting rent payment. 

In Colorado whatever I do regarding normal tenant landlord stuff is a civil matter and damages have to be "real", (no punitive damages etc). 

I've got some Colorado eviction stories but they might be a little too much for this forum and i might lose my Liberal status. 

Bottom line . I make it easy for good people to get in and the Colorado statutes make it easy for me to get the mistakes out.

Of course I'm not a lawyer and am only speaking from my experience and most of my T/LL legal trouble was from the late 80's and early 90's so obviously the laws may have changed some, but I don't believe so. Since then I have gotten better about choosing tenants. touch wood.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

K2eoj said:


> I put month to month on top of the lease and can have a court date in about a week and a half with eviction with the sherriff the following day. We also have "tenancy at will" which is probably what hotels use but i have never actually tried it.
> 
> .


A friend had a lawer write up lease papers for like $700 it covered everything. The lease said they had 1 week to be late or at the end of that week they had to be gone. The court didnt care about the lease agreement and neither did the sherrif. They just said go to the courthouse and get thw eviction papers, the ones that they get 90 days rent free from. Im not sure how hotels get away with it. They just call the cops and they throw them out and toss their junk in the street.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

Michaeljp86 said:


> A friend had a lawer write up lease papers for like $700 it covered everything. The lease said they had 1 week to be late or at the end of that week they had to be gone. The court didnt care about the lease agreement and neither did the sherrif. They just said go to the courthouse and get thw eviction papers, the ones that they get 90 days rent free from. Im not sure how hotels get away with it. They just call the cops and they throw them out and toss their junk in the street.


That is correct. A bogus lease and bogus addendums never overides State Statutes and could possibly be turned against the LL. Sometimes however a tenant will honor a bogus lease because they gave their word others may just not know any better. I ran for many years with no written lease, just a verbal and a handshake. I did find out that in Colorado once you give a person the right to occupy then they and you have an automatic lease which is written into the statutes which is exactly like my written month to month lease.

In 25 years I've done one legal eviction, 40 or 50 by bluffing, 5 or 6 totally illegal. If I feel one tenant is endangering the other tenants, I will take my chances in front of a judge.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

K2eoj said:


> That is correct. A bogus lease and bogus addendums never overides State Statutes and could possibly be turned against the LL. Sometimes however a tenant will honor a bogus lease because they gave their word others may just not know any better. I ran for many years with no written lease, just a verbal and a handshake. I did find out that in Colorado once you give a person the right to occupy then they and you have an automatic lease which is written into the statutes which is exactly like my written month to month lease.
> 
> In 25 years I've done one legal eviction, 40 or 50 by bluffing, 5 or 6 totally illegal. If I feel one tenant is endangering the other tenants, I will take my chances in front of a judge.


My dad wanted to have a lease drawn up where they rent by the day like a hotel but can pay for as many days as they want up front, 30 days max. But the court system doesnt care about anything except the crappy way they have it. The people who work there get payed wether they help you or not. So the less work they do the easier their job is.


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## Kenneth1312 (5 mo ago)

Be cautious when using terms like slum or low income. Anti-discrimination policies are in place at both the federal and state level. If you own rental property and someone catches you using terms like that, you could end up spending a lot of money defending yourself against the government.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

Be cautious when dredging up a 15-year-old thread.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Kenneth1312 said:


> Be cautious when using terms like slum or low income. Anti-discrimination policies are in place at both the federal and state level. If you own rental property and someone catches you using terms like that, you could end up spending a lot of money defending yourself against the government.


🙄


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