# National Repair & Remodel Estimator



## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Have any of you used the National Repair & Remodel Estimator books out there? If so, do you find them fairly accurate?


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## Keeyter (Sep 18, 2010)

I do alot of remodeling and do use National Estimator. It is close, just make sure that you account for your location factor. Where I am at says 12% so you need to make sure the system is set for your area. Plumbing I have found to be way off, but we are forced to use Union plumbers so thats the difference from what I have seen.


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## LibertyConstruc (Jan 19, 2011)

We use it all the time and actually we use most of the guides. Found them to be in the correct range for the area you look up. Exxcellent refrence


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I used to use the National Construction Estimator, It was relatively accurate, but I only used it for labor cost, not material.

I'm going to be getting the National Home Improvement Estimator, thought about the remodel & repair one, but I'm not sure which I'll be going with.

Anybody have any info on the difference? I notice that the Home Improvement one is larger - is the remodel and repair a subset of the HI one? What are the differences? There is also a renovation and insurance repair version, but I don't think that's for me ...


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

I never heard of the National Home Improvement Estimator--let us know which one you choose. I just used the remodel estimator today, but can't say how accurate it'll be until I see how long it takes my guy to do it! The estimator software is fantastic and exports into quickbooks.


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

I've been using their books for years. Not perfect, but pretty good. I use them more as a guide. The home improvement book is better than the repair book. You can buy a site license for all of them for under a $100. Well worth it.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> I never heard of the National Home Improvement Estimator--let us know which one you choose. I just used the remodel estimator today, but can't say how accurate it'll be until I see how long it takes my guy to do it! The estimator software is fantastic and exports into quickbooks.


http://www.craftsman-book.com/

They have a few - remodel / repair, renovation / insurance, home improvement are the three I'm interested in. I used to use the book, way back in the day, and it was fairly accurate.

If you want your guy to make those times, he better be pretty motivated - via piecework, or the whip.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

bauler said:


> I've been using their books for years. Not perfect, but pretty good. I use them more as a guide. The home improvement book is better than the repair book. You can buy a site license for all of them for under a $100. Well worth it.


How is it better? Is the remodel / repair book a subset, or does it have anything that the home improvement one doesn't? 

I'm thinking site license for all of them to see which one I like best.

Eventually, if (when?) I outgrow their software, I'll probably move up to Sage and import the craftsman database. RSMeans doesn't do it for me, it's geared toward new construction. Their remodel stuff boasts 65 interior, and 65 exterior jobs - I can keep that database in my head haha!

http://craftsman-book.com/products/...roduct_software_info&cPath=49&products_id=863

that's probably the ticket for me. It's 108 for the Oh Eleven version.


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

I don't know why they have so many for home repair, insurance, ect. The improvement book covers more work I do. The repair book list jobs by small volume and large volume. I just can't put my work into either category.

You can go to their website and download full usable 30 day trial versions. Suggest you do it and see for yourself. Tip, register with them and they will usually send you a discount code.

http://craftsman-book.com


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ I posted an earlier thread about this but got little help. Do one of your estimators have a line item for man-hours per unit for installing 12" x 12" porcelain floor tiles ("small volume" or "high quality" work)? The remodeling & repair estimator only lists 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" tiles and 4 1/4" x 4 1/4" tiles. Rectangular room, wide open space, very basic.


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

Yes, Home Improvement Estimator page 296
So far all I see is material price, not labor. One of the quirks of the estimator books. It listed somewhere, just got to look. 
An example:

Ceramic Floor Tile
"12” x 12” glazed porcelain residential and commercial floor tile, American Marazzi"
__________________________________________________________________________

"[email protected]","Unit","Material","Labor","Total"
__________________________________________________________________________

"12 x 12 glazed porcelain residential and commercial floor tile, American Marazzi. For residential, commercial and light institutional applications, including restaurant dining rooms, shopping malls, offices, lobbies, showrooms and corridors. Class 4, moderate to heavy traffic. Case of 15 tiles covers 15 square feet, including 10% waste. This product does not meet the minimum coefficient of friction to be considered a slip-resistant tile. See Ceramic Tile Installation for tile setting costs, including tile backer, thin-set mortar or adhesive and grout."
"12” x 12” glazed porcelain residential and commercial floor tile, American Marazzi"
__________________________________________________________________________

Rapolano, Noce [email protected] SF 1.49 -- 1.49

Salento Sabbia, Beige [email protected] SF 1.58 -- 1.58

"12” x 12” glazed porcelain residential and commercial floor tile, American Marazzi"
__________________________________________________________________________

Salento Sabbia, Gray [email protected] SF 1.12 -- 1.12

Vermont, Caledonia Porcelain [email protected] SF 1.87 -- 1.87

Doesn't quite cut and paste right, but you get the idea. Download their trial version and take a look. It works just like the paid version, but only for 30 days.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanks, I guess they really don't want to give out labor. You think it could be broken down from simple to complex with averages in each category. Anyways, thanks for the post. Btw, don't those material prices sound a little low?


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

I've had their books for years----the tile section is out dated and completely useless---

I find it to be a good stating point for pricing jobs that I seldom do---that's about it--a starting point.

Tile,however is not usable from their books.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*ah,,,*

that book for a guidline...:blink: That may give you some idea what to charge.. but when you actually do the work and see the results at the end- that may be quite different from those numbers. you can actually figure out what you need to charge if your taking the necessary steps in all your calculations... time... materials..ins...permits.. etc..etc... everything being tracked...


you can't STAMP a price on ANY project... there are WAY to many variables.... 

What does a company starting out with 5 employees -2 trucks - larger premium on liability and Workman's comp..shop.. overhead... maintanance....etc..etc.. charge...:blink: Vs another company.. with 1 employee, less overhead..less expenses..etc..etc.. I could go on & on... the point is THEY WON"T BE THE SAME!

Between your expenses... your experience what your company does and what value you bring to the table for prospective clients... NOTHING is written in stone what to charge...how do you value yourself... what is the price tag.. there are to many variables and the pricing will be all over the place... all different size companies.


keep track of time, what you need per month to cover your expenses and what you would like for profit... you can use that book for a guide but then you may end up upside down /even/ or ahead of the game... way to many variables...

it's hard if your just starting off because you have nothing to work off of as of yet..so your going trip once in a while.. get over it, and move on...but keeping track is the key to figuring out what to charge..  


just my 2 cents...:notworthy


B.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

The books are completely customizable. So after some job costing you customize to your costs and time to complete tasks. The prices in the books have nothing to do with your overhead and profit. Again that is your duty to fill in the proper O&P for your estimates. 

Craftsman Books has youtube tutorials on using their books and software.

http://www.youtube.com/user/CraftsmanBookCompany


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> Thanks, I guess they really don't want to give out labor. You think it could be broken down from simple to complex with averages in each category. Anyways, thanks for the post. * Btw, don't those material prices sound a little low*?


 More like completely wrong.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

> "12 x 12 glazed porcelain residential and commercial floor tile, American Marazzi. For residential, commercial and light institutional applications, including restaurant dining rooms, shopping malls, offices, lobbies, showrooms and corridors. Class 4, moderate to heavy traffic. Case of 15 tiles covers 15 square feet, including 10% waste. This product does not meet the minimum coefficient of friction to be considered a slip-resistant tile. See Ceramic Tile Installation for tile setting costs, including tile backer, thin-set mortar or adhesive and grout."
> "12” x 12” glazed porcelain residential and commercial floor tile, American Marazzi"


I have no idea what that just said, or tried to say, meant, or implied.

It that some sort of "how to" book someone is selling or something?

It sounds like some grad school "project papers" where a bunch were put at the top of a staircase, then given a kick down the stairs. The ones that landed at the bottom got the highest grades because they weighed the most.


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

I just took a quick search and posted what I found. Like I said I will use them only as a guide. Always verify and get local quotes on materials. Never had much luck with customizing my own price book. One problem I have always had with their books is that a job to say replace an exterior door. You would have to include several items to come up with a price.

Example
Replace 30 68 exterior door
1. Demo, remove door and hardware
2. Hang, cut to size, cut hinges
3. Bore holes and install knob and deadbolt.
4. Replace threshold and weather stripping, if need
5. Cleanup and haul away debris
Each of the above would list labor (time and amount) and material cost
Then you add tax, overhead and profit.

Now if I was to do it manually I would price out the materials, add labor from experience. Then add tax, overhead and profit.


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

i would agree with the general consensus that these books should be used only as general guides. I only use the books to make sure that I have not grossly overlooked some aspect of my estimates. Other than that, I don't put much weight in costing guides.


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