# Rafters Question



## Bukemdano (Mar 12, 2005)

Hi all, 

I am framing up a 12x12 addition and am wonder if I use rafters, can I still have a cathedral ceiling? This would obviously exlude the horizontal chords or beams. Any suggestions on this? I would rather just use scissor trusses, but I think the customer doesnt want to float the cost. Thanks for any help !!!

Dan


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Suggest that cross ties are 'in' now. It suggests beam construction. Maybe just one in the center to hold the walls together.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Funny this should be up now. I was just working on a bid for an addition and had materials planned for rafters, ceiling joists, etc., and...just for S's & G's :cheesygri , I asked the local supply what it would be for roof trusses (and believe me, I was thinking the same as most people would...tooooo muchhhh $$$$$$$$), I had about $1200 tied up in rafters, peak beam, ceiling joists, etc for 16" centers...for the trusses.....drumroll........tatatatattatatatatata.........$946(granted they were designed for 24" centers...but none-the-less). That doesn't take into account the labor charges they (and the actual labor that I) will be saving. I don't mind the loss in my wallet because:
1: another contractor could have went directly for trusses, came in cheaper, and better built, and won the job over me.
2: I...DESPIIIIIIISE....cutting rafters.
and 3: I really, realllllly despiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii(deep breath)iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise cutting rafters. :cheesygri


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## bergenbldr (Apr 23, 2005)

Use of a structural ridge will eliminate need for crossties or collarties. You need to tie rafters to ridge with metal connectors or tie rafters together by lapping over ridge and nailing to each other.Having an engineer design your ridge beam helps with code approvals/plan review.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

jp, I'm with you. In my neighborhood, it's illegal. Those little ridge ties don't mean squat over time, I'd post my neighbors 20 yr. old shed if I could. It was built, as suggested, and has settled into a fine mess. Roof, swaybacked and walls bowed out.
It's 10 X10 if you're interested.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Teetor I dunno if it's illegal here, but I do believe it's a little better "grease" for the building dept. wheel at permit time.

BTW when planning the stick built roof, I planned on using 2x8 rafters on 16" centers and 2x6 ceiling joists on 16" centers "tied" up to the rafters at 10'-4" and 20'-8" over a 31 foot span.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

jb, I don't 'grease' anybody. I know our rep. My father didn't do it and neither do I. We send solid plans, expect them to pass and they do. No problem. No grease either.
I'm rather insulted that you would bring up such an issue. I assume that this is how you do business.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Teetorbilt said:


> jb, I don't 'grease' anybody...My father didn't do it and neither do I. I'm rather insulted that you would bring up such an issue.


???huh???
I took his 'grease' comment as meaning that the permitting office wouldn't have to review something they're not entirely familiar with.
Tell me if I'm wrong JP. I hate to misunderstand.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Rich, 'grease' is payoff, capiche?


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

OK. Not something I'm familiar with. I always figure something like that is more trouble than it's worth.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Pipe, 'grease' is something that you don't want to be associated with.
Now I have to make some phone calls.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

Bukem, make sure you check the price of the trusses, they may well come in cheaper than sticking it. Around here the inspectors like it 'cos it's one less thing for them to worry about. Way less labour as jp points out. Also, whatever the span requires for the rafters in terms of depth of member will have to be increased or otherwise dealt with (strapped) for venting over the insulation. (we need 2x10's up here just for the required insulation) I did a 12'x14' addition last year where the customer wanted timber trusses, but I couldn't convince the inspector that they were actually covered in the code and didn't require an engineer. Couldn't get an engineer in the time frame so stick framed it with 2x12 over the timbers. I think three 2x12's for a beam on built up posts in the gable walls down to the foundation. The whole thing was incidentally supported by the "decorative" timber trusses. That is one roof that you could park a tank on. There's a picture on the forum somewhere. Rich


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

grease is NOT payoff....."grease", in this case, meant I believe trusses pass a little easier than stick building...as in..they would rather see trusses than stick......not payoff...not money....and no thats NOT how i do business...you assume alot from one comment SIR


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

JP, i've said it before and i'll say it again-print doesn't always lend itself well to the process of carrying on a dialogue. It's crazy how two people can read the same post and get entirely different messages; even otherwise thoughtful people.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

I know Pipe, I guess my last post came off a little abrasive. I was a little tiffed at the assumptions, but at any rate Teetor, and anyone else who cares, that is most definately NOT how I do business. Everything legal, by the book, and to code, or beyond code usually. No payoffs, no "gifts", no bribes, or "campaign contributions". Either it passes or it doesn't, and if it doesn't I can almost guarantee its because of politics, not because of actual failure.

BTW when I said: "Teetor I dunno if it's illegal here..." I meant stick framing, not payoffs...i KNOW that's illegal :cheesygri


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

jproffer,

I think most people knew what you meant, I know I did, - - I think Teetor just accidently took it wrong, - - we all do it from time to time.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Myself included...thanks Tom...Teetor, my apologies for being kinda...jerky :cheesygri


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

jp, sorry that we misunderstood each other. 'Greasing the wheels' is a term that I have always heard used instead of 'payola' when it comes to public officials. It doesn't matter if your a little guy slipping a few Ben Franklin's to the inspector or a developer contributing 100's of K's to a County Commissioner's campaign. It's just the way in which I have heard the term used. 
Rich is right, the written word can be interpreted in different ways, there is no inflection to guide you.
The 'illegal' part was in reference to the ridge ties. I also like collarties (and oversize them) because you can use them as mini joists. I partially board them over for more storage space above the ceiling ht. and screw more boards on from underneath for storage of small stuff.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Thank goodness that's settled :cheesygri , take care gentlemen. Good thoughts on the collarties BTW.


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## shelton hobbs (Aug 15, 2005)

it depends on how long you have to wait for trusses but ethier would be fine . with proper ridge beam rafters are very strong and can be had easy id use 2x12


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