# Wall repair



## natural1 (Aug 30, 2007)

I am repairing this wall for my church. The existing wall has these elevated type mortar joints. Must be a term for this style of finish but i am not aware of it.

My question is: what is the technique for finishing this style of mortar joint? Is their a special tool?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike


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## Blockade (Nov 1, 2008)

It always rains at cemeteries.
http://www.brickmaster.co.uk/tukcpointing.htm


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Its grape vine type mortar joint. Though I cant be %100 from the pics. 

Do a search in the forums and you'll get some info.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

6stringmason said:


> Its grape vine type mortar joint. Though I cant be %100 from the pics.
> 
> Do a search in the forums and you'll get some info.


looks like grapevine joints to me also.there is a grapevine jointer out there,but i wouldnt know where to buy one.goldblatt maybe.tscar can help you out.


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## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Goldblatt and Marshalltown make one

I actually found one at my Castle wholesaler here in DC. But you can order them online as well.


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## raskolnikov (Mar 10, 2008)

Joint or no joint, that's a sad stone wall! Good luck natural1!

D.


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## natural1 (Aug 30, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I will check with a couple of the local supliers for a grapevine tool.
Yea, pretty sad wall. Car crashed into it. 
Quality of the workmanship is not that great either. Mortar joints are as big as 3" with a "grapevine" down the center. 

thanks,
Mike


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## masonlifer (Jun 10, 2007)

The grapevine jointers in my area leave an indented joint. Check out concave stone beading jointers. Different areas use different names sometimes.There is a pretty good selection of masonry jointers with pictures online at Capital City Tools and Equipment in Nashville.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Bon Tool calls it a concave stone beader.

http://www.bontool.com/product1.asp?P=CONCAVEBEADER


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## Michael Olding (Aug 5, 2008)

Yes I believe this may be a beaded joint not a grapevine.


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## natural1 (Aug 30, 2007)

thanks again guys. CJKarl thanks for the link. Looks like I get to buy a new tool:thumbup:


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## eekie34 (Jun 14, 2008)

in our parts it is called a wild ribbon joint. The stone joints are pointed and then scored with a tool with razorblades. After inital set cut back with trowel


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## BestToolChap (May 7, 2011)

If you go out to Bon Tool's web site, you can see diagrams of all the different types of masonry joints. It is in their Knowledge Center and called "mortar joints" in the masonry section.

You need a "beaded jointer" which can be round or square. Bon Tool's web site offers both styles in a variety of sizes.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

This is how it's done...only free hand and not a level/straight. Rubble work is usually freehand vs. ashlar being level. As mentioned, score with block gauge/ razor blades and cut out projection with a margin trowel or similar. No slicker/jointer tool will you this effect.

A good ribbon job requires two coats of mud prior to score to build up the proper base.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

That is actually a different type jointing method altogether. I have not seen it used on a random ashler before, usually it it used on coursed rough units.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

That is crazy, looks like it takes longer to joint it than it does to actually lay it.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

you want to see crazy...owner wanted exact match and was willing to pay. Okay I say :laughing:


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

superseal said:


> you want to see crazy...owner wanted exact match and was willing to pay. Okay I say :laughing:


I'd like to see a video of this method....to youtube I shall go.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

lukachuki said:


> I'd like to see a video of this method....to youtube I shall go.


post it if you find one - if not, i'll shoot you one next time i do it.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

You guys have me curious. Are ribbon joints a regional thing? The way Super Seal does it is the only way I know also. A bit time consuming if you do not do it often.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I know it's pretty common stuff on the east coast, not sure about the rest of the country. Proud immigrants passing on their skills I guess - that's were i learned - 3rd. gen from the old country used the same methods. 

Many perfect examples in the "Mainline" area of Philadelphia and it's surrounding communities. 

I love doing raised ribbon and ridge style pointings and all the other styles that we see. 

And you right, it's time consuming and tedious (approx. 50 sq ft at most per man day for quality raised ribbon work)

Here's some other local styles


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

superseal said:


> you want to see crazy...owner wanted exact match and was willing to pay. Okay I say :laughing:


Nice looking work superseal. 
Ribbon pointing used to be quite popular round here, but it recent years it has been blamed for damp penetration in solid walled houses as rain tends to sit on the pointing.
There is a similar one called weather struck and cut where the joints are raked out and then filled. The joint is angled down with a pointing trowel, and the bed joints are cut off at the bottom using a straight edge and knife with a bent tip ( known as a Frenchman ).


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

NJ Brickie said:


> A bit time consuming if you do not do it often.



Well, duh! :laughing:


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

superseal said:


> This is how it's done...only free hand and not a level/straight. Rubble work is usually freehand vs. ashlar being level. As mentioned, score with block gauge/ razor blades and cut out projection with a margin trowel or similar. No slicker/jointer tool will you this effect.
> 
> A good ribbon job requires two coats of mud prior to score to build up the proper base.



That is really really, nicely done. 2 thumbs up.:thumbup:


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

stuart45 said:


> Nice looking work superseal.
> Ribbon pointing used to be quite popular round here, but it recent years it has been blamed for damp penetration in solid walled houses as rain tends to sit on the pointing.
> There is a similar one called weather struck and cut where the joints are raked out and then filled. The joint is angled down with a pointing trowel, and the bed joints are cut off at the bottom using a straight edge and knife with a bent tip ( known as a Frenchman ).
> View attachment 48268


I hear ya Stu...The most common joint used on stone around hear is the German Ridge. Much like the weather struck, I'll trowel it tight to the top side of the stone for proper drainage. 

BTW...that WS joint is probably the finest looking example I've seen on brick.

Another cool example of the raised ribbon is when they topped it off with lime wash, then cut out projection to leave a white finish on the ribbon. Looks really nice but the lime eventually wears off and some guys will paint it when trying to replicate. See if i can find some pics of this.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Here we go - white top ribbon


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

CJKarl said:


> Well, duh! :laughing:


Well obviously I was not talking to the masonry messiah


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

NJ Brickie said:


> Well obviously I was not talking to the masonry messiah


Don't get me wrong. I'm saying ANY highly detailed finish takes a lot more time. Add to the fact that it's masonry and the labor is out of sight.


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