# plywood vs osb



## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

I have been having a lot of problems with plywood lately 
wether its subfloor, roof sheeting, or wall sheating
It rains once or twice 
I get delamination and warping
I have switched completely to osb except subloor
next project will be entirely osb
the only problems i have with the osb is swelling thats easy to fix
anyone else experiencing this


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

Do a search. This has been discussed many times. If theres a lot of rain coming I coat the subfloor with a cheap deckstain. It helps alot. In my area everything is osb.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

nailkiller1 said:


> I have been having a lot of problems with plywood lately
> wether its subfloor, roof sheeting, or wall sheating
> It rains once or twice
> I get delamination and warping
> ...


Use the search function,
there are several threads here
start with this one.....
http://www.contractortalk.com/f14/osb-plywood-53497/?highlight=plywood

Lately, I've been using GP DryPly.
Haven't had any really long term exposure,
but it's nice stuff, and comes ¾ and 1". :thumbsup:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

strathd said:


> Do a search. This has been discussed many times. If theres a lot of rain coming I coat the subfloor with a cheap deckstain. It helps alot. In my area everything is osb.


Aside from using a better than
C grade face, stain seems to be
the trick DryPly uses.


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

neolitic said:


> Aside from using a better than
> C grade face, stain seems to be
> the trick DryPly uses.


 Thanks. Going to check out dryply. Easier to let them stain it.


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## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

gp dryply has given me a lot of problems
the project I am currently working on will be the last time i ever use the product
the last three projects I have had to repair about 20 sheets


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

nailkiller1 said:


> gp dryply has given me a lot of problems
> the project I am currently working on will be the last time i ever use the product
> the last three projects I have had to repair about 20 sheets


What's it doing ? Are you talking water damage ?


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## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

swelling buckling warping
worst I have seen in 5 years
current project rained 2 hrs 1 morning 
started failing that afternoon


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## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

i forgot delaminating


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

20 sheets of repair on one job?? We have used all types of floor sheathing over 25 years. oSB has problems of joints swelling and generall weakening of the sheet, plywood can delaminate and swell. i agree that applying a sealer can help a little as we usually do this on the big houses. I have never had to replace 20 sheets though, maybe 5 or 6 at most out of a job of probably 200-300 sheets. if you had failure in 20 sheets the manufacturer should be notified and possibly a claim should be filed with them.

We have been using a lot of the advantech lately and we like the results except for the weight of the sheets and the difficults of nailing. nothing we can't live with though. We have replaced 0 sheets so far and have used it for probably a dozen houses.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Like I said, no experience with
long term exposure, but last month
3 sheets were left out in the rain
for three days (leaning against a wall)
and they were fine.
Other than that only a couple of days
installed and exposed to rain, but still
no problems.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Advantech is the shiznit. very limitted edge swelling with multiple exposeres to rain. We always gap sides and edges to allow for expansion.:thumbsup:


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## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

Rep came out 
agreed with problem 
will give me as many sheets as i want
do you think he will bring his hammer and nailpuller with when he comes back:no:


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## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

is advantech plywood or osb
I would be happy with edge swelling


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

nailkiller.

No way i would replace 20 sheets on my dollar when they have obviously accepted responsibility for the defect. i will generally do these things at cost if i know the lumberyard well but I'm not gonna take the hit for their bad products. your labor for the repair would include complete removal and new installation as well as setup/teardown time and disposal of the old crap. have had very few times when i've had to do these types of replacement but i have always been fair and the suppliers have never questioned my bills.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

nailkiller1 said:


> is advantech plywood or osb
> I would be happy with edge swelling


 Advantech is OSB treated with something to resist moisture. I've heard of guys throwing a scrap into a pool for several days with no swelling, but I've never tried it myself. It holds up well in the real world though. I won't use anything else if it is my call.:thumbsup:
Her is a pic of it.


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## cordless (Apr 5, 2009)

Advantech is definetly the way to go for me. Has anyone tried the Zip System (w/ tape) for sidewall and roof sheathing?


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

cordless said:


> Advantech is definetly the way to go for me. Has anyone tried the Zip System (w/ tape) for sidewall and roof sheathing?


 Almost, but that's a negative on the Zip dealio:thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

that would be strange not having a wrb probably a rain screen detail be best?


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## galla35 (Feb 27, 2009)

loneframer said:


> Advantech is the shiznit. very limitted edge swelling with multiple exposeres to rain. We always gap sides and edges to allow for expansion.:thumbsup:



could not have said it any better i preach this stuff


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## HitchC&L (Mar 7, 2008)

Ive had part of a sheet of 3/4 Advantech in the bed of my truck since last summer. Been out in the rain and snow the whole time. Still straight as the day I put it in there.


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## d.g.reynolds co (Apr 5, 2009)

osb grows in the rain; with appropriate glue viscosity and press temperature there is no reason for a sheat of B.C. plwood to de-lam in three days of rain. I made plywood in Fort Nelson for two years, and they conducted de-lam tests every day.


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## d.g.reynolds co (Apr 5, 2009)

sheet not sheat


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## RED HORSE 554 (Jun 26, 2008)

Osb 10 to 1 here all but eves this will need to remain plywood for aperance. Allthough i have found a plywood that workes great if solid coler painting http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Crezon%20-%202%20Step%20Prod%20LIt%20-%2011-07.pdf this is the product that is used for freeway boards and signs weathers great and as well thay have this for form work and is reuseable good stuff. But i like osb for sheething ex.en. You will get a few rains before osb deflects.


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## DrewD (Jun 10, 2007)

Advantech has a wax resin mixed in with the strands, this is what makes it so resistant against water/moisture. About the Zip Wall system, I have talked to a few contractors who have been using it and love it. You don't waste time applying house wrap, it is easier to flash, holds up much better in the rain. Only heard good things about it.


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## wmallock (Jan 16, 2009)

*advantec*



nailkiller1 said:


> is advantech plywood or osb
> I would be happy with edge swelling


advantec is osb but it has a 50 year warranty on it and weighs about twice as much does not seam to swell as quickly and i agree it is the shiznit basically all i use best bang for buck in my opinion


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## renoindallas (May 4, 2009)

*TopNotch 350*

Is also a good option. It's at a good price point. It's "almost" as good as Advantech but better than Commodity OSB and Plywood.

So you get the 50 year warranty LIKE Advantech.

Quite honestly the main difference is the TopNotch 350 100 Day No Sand/Flaking warranty vs. Advantech's 300 Day No Sand/Edge Flaking etc. warranty.


USUALLY, you have bigger problems than a sub-floor if 100 days is not enough.

GP's DryPly is an excelent product but it's very expensive, even more than Advantech I think.


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## renoindallas (May 4, 2009)

*Plywood Exposure 1 panels*

I may add that plywood twists and turns and cracks like any plywood would in my experience. I have also "drilled" holes for standing water.

TopNotch avoids this and is the only self draining sub-floor on the market.


We have used 1-1/8'' as well as 3/4''

A lot of old dogs are dying out with this beaten old-school mentality but just go to the American Plywood Association site. apa dot org I think....Has the exact swell rates and science.

Swell Tests

Plywood usually is around 10 percent
commodity OSB is around 8-10%
TopNotch 350 is 5-6%
Advantech is 3%


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

Anyone have a price comparison of standard OSB with house wrap or building paper compared to Advantech Zip wall?


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## jaros bros. (Jan 20, 2009)

Will probably never use osb or plywood anymore. Once Advantech came along, why would you use anything else?


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

jaros bros. said:


> Will probably never use osb or plywood anymore. Once Advantech came along, why would you use anything else?


price and availability.


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## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

Advantech is the best subfloor hands down. We've used it many times and will use it again on the custom we are starting Monday. It isn't cheap though. We'll pay about $21 and change/sheet and the subfloor we have also had good success with (LP Orange) is about $14/sheet.

If you have not used Advantech before, you can get a rebate up to $900. Check out their website for more details.

The Huber rep came out to our jobsite a couple of weeks back and went over some of the info on Zip and Advantech. The subfloor has a 300 day no sanding guarantee 

One point that might help mitigate the cost of the subfloor (for us it is a $750 upgrade) we always come back right before carpet and screw down the floor to minimize the potential for squeaks. With the nailing guide on the Advantech, I find that we miss very few nails and the floor is nice and squeak free. Use a decent ring or screw shank nail (.113" diameter) and I think we might be able to eliminate the step of coming back. That combined with the no swelling and the subfloor doesn't absorb moisture like OSB and Ply means that we have less time with dehumidifiers on the jobsite.

We had one house 2 years ago that we had 3 dehumidifiers going for about a month to get the moisture content down. That was not cheap. But it worked, the moisture was way down by the time we had framing inspection.

On that job we used the LP Orange and it performed just fine, but that was with the dehumidifiers going.



We used Zip http://www.zipsystem.com/on our last project and loved it. Absolutely loved it. We'll do it again on this job we are starting.



http://www.advantechperforms.com/dare-to-compare/competitor-comparisons.aspx


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Tim,
Do you use felt over the zip wall system anyway? 
It seems that and proper flashing details would prevent a lot of problems.

OSB grows mold so fast around here its not funny, I'm working in development in G.Harbor where 4 houses are currently being re-sided.
20 yrs old Tyvek or Barricade and cedar bevel over osb all dry rotted out!

Does Evergreen sell that ?

Bill


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## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

bconley said:


> Tim,
> Do you use felt over the zip wall system anyway?
> It seems that and proper flashing details would prevent a lot of problems.
> 
> ...


We don't use anything over the Zip, but on the roof 4-12 and under need felt.

Evergreen ordered it in for us, we are getting it through Arrow in Port Orchard on the house we just started and the rep told me that Kingston stocks it.

What caused the mold on those houses? Was the detailing done right? Was there ventilation in the houses? 

One thing I really like about the Zip panels and the Advantech is that they don't absorb moisture. They are very dense. We sheathed a floor in Advantech today and I'm going to take some scraps tomorrow and put them in water and photograph them every week or once a month or so. I'm a big believer in the product.

The Zip tape is a special tape too, its not like anything I've used before. The rep told me it is the stickiest stuff on the market. I'd have to agree. We left some in the rain and assumed it wouldn't work and it was just fine. 

Email me in a couple of weeks or next week and hopefully we'll have enough up that you can come by and take a look. We just started one in McCormick Woods

http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler/Lot25Gleneagle#


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Tim,
I'm only involved with one of those houses, the cause seems to be a combination of improper detailing, maintenance (or lack of), and exposure.
I have used Advantech for floors but not the Zipsystem.
One of the thing we suspect is vapor movement from the sun heating up the just rained on walls and driving it through the wrb.
We removed the siding from the weather side and replaced osb (the framing wasn't effected) and re-sided with Hardie and Jumbo tex paper. I think building paper work better than Tyvek or the like especially after seeing failure after failure, the paper seems create an air space to let it breathe and dry out. If it were me I would add the paper for cheap insurance.
Thanks for the invite I would like to see your project.

Bill


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

bconley said:


> I think building paper work better than Tyvek or the like especially after seeing failure after failure, the paper seems create an air space to let it breathe and dry out. If it were me I would add the paper for cheap insurance.
> Thanks for the invite I would like to see your project.
> 
> Bill


 :thumbsup:


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## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

bconley said:


> Tim,
> I'm only involved with one of those houses, the cause seems to be a combination of improper detailing, maintenance (or lack of), and exposure.
> I have used Advantech for floors but not the Zipsystem.
> One of the thing we suspect is vapor movement from the sun heating up the just rained on walls and driving it through the wrb.
> ...


Bill,

What I'd love to do, but it just isn't in the cards in this economy, is to use Zip for walls, tape the seams and nail battens to the walls while the wall is down. Then come back and side. I think we could get a lot of the rainscreen details done with the wall flat. 

Below is the wall we finished up before calling it a day. We'll add the closed soffit framing and the soffits. I'll wait on the fascia because I can correct quite a bit of mistake in ciphering if I hang it after the rafters are in.

Do you know who originally built those houses? How old are they?


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## PlaneWoodworker (Nov 30, 2009)

Advantech has saved us on a couple jobs. I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY. Don't second-guess yourslef


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## PlaneWoodworker (Nov 30, 2009)

yourself*


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## BKFranks (Feb 19, 2008)

How do you work with advantech when you have to use a lot of MST straps and A35 clips on the exterior? Just tape over all the penetrations?


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## Timuhler (Mar 7, 2006)

BKFranks said:


> How do you work with advantech when you have to use a lot of MST straps and A35 clips on the exterior? Just tape over all the penetrations?


I'm not sure yet. I was thinking of putting the tape on, then the hardware over it, but I think its probably better to tape over it.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

I've never used OSB. I like advantech, but I don't think it or osb holds a nail very well.


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## RobQuillin (Oct 27, 2009)

Advantec is the main product I use for subflooring. It's heavy but with a 50 yr warrenty and now swelling it is for the most part a no brainer. Another advantage to advantec is that you can lay hard wood on it with no problems of nails pulling out and also my tile guy always gets a big grin when he sees it because he knows that it is a stable floor.:thumbup: It's heavy but that just helps keep me in shape.:thumbsup:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

nailkiller1 said:


> I have been having a lot of problems with plywood lately
> wether its subfloor, roof sheeting, or wall sheating
> It rains once or twice
> I get delamination and warping
> ...


I use self draining subfloor so there is no standing water and also better OSB companys seal the edges so it doesnt swell


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## Chet Darnell (Apr 24, 2010)

We use advantec with subfloor glue and quikdrive screws. No problems at all. I like the zip wall fairly well. The only things is you can't flash a window or door to factory specs (behind the Housewrap). But we set the windows and tape around them with the zip tape. Zip roof is useless if you have any valleys. Its nearly impossible to keep from leaking. We used snow and ice in the valleys then taped the sides of the snow and ice and still had leaks. It also leaks thru the nail holes when you shoot it down. But its cheaper than plywood so we started felting over it.


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## joesmith (Aug 25, 2009)

RobQuillin said:


> Advantec is the main product I use for subflooring. It's heavy but with a 50 yr warrenty and now swelling it is for the most part a no brainer. Another advantage to advantec is that you can lay hard wood on it with no problems of nails pulling out and also my tile guy always gets a big grin when he sees it because he knows that it is a stable floor.:thumbup: It's heavy but that just helps keep me in shape.:thumbsup:


I think I've lost 5lbs now that I started to use AdvanTech. :thumbup:


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