# Hi- Park



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

It's pour day!!! -1 this morning, and most of the day, going to -17 tonight!!

Level 1 weathermix going in, I expect the surface to get some damage, I just want to maintain the 35mpa strength.

Pickle is there now shoveling the top of the pan and tiger torching to get all of last nights wet snow out.

This will be a relief to finally get the deck poured...4 months late...but come Monday start framing and were on easy street.

First floor framing is 8'-9" ceiling height...triple top and bottom plate with full 8' studs...I would hate to be the drywaller


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Good Luck, No heating the 1st floor to heat the slab???. SE okay with the sub freezing cure temps?

Don't walk off the edges.


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## hammerone40 (May 13, 2012)

I love cold weather concrete. Like I love paying taxes. 

But I do have great memories of giving dad ammo to harass me with. 

Keep the guys safe and EOR happy.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

This is Canada, we have concrete designed for the winter

Engineer reviews and specs everything on this project 

He will be here today while placing it


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> My cheapest hilti shot and fastener are ~0.90 $ US, maybe I'm overpaying...
> 
> One fastener every 10' Square ft? and the SE is happy?
> 
> Drive on.


Hilti will rape you on small quantities. Buy 1000 or more and the price drops significantly and the charges are free.


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Chris Johnson said:


> It's pour day!!! -1 this morning, and most of the day, going to -17 tonight!!
> 
> Level 1 weathermix going in, I expect the surface to get some damage, I just want to maintain the 35mpa strength.
> 
> ...


Unfamiliar with "Weathermix", no need to tent and supply heat underneath?


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

We can't even get concrete trucks to leave the yard unless it's 20° F and rising.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I'm talking -1 Celsius so roughly 30 Fahrenheit 

Weathermix is a mix design, check out Lafarge in Canada to get an idea of the science behind it all

4 hours slab is in, had a little delay when the city showed up and developer never pulled a street permit...stopped us for about 30 minutes til I sweet talked the guy into letting me finish a structural slab already 3/4 placed.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Without heating the slab, I can't see how you could land anything on the deck Early next week without damaging it.

It is your Cow, worse case you can always have a Bar-B-Que

I didn't see any data show type I weathermix has any high early Portland cement or curing accelerators..... Hot water and water reducers...

The brag sheets I perused suggest weather mix 4 for 0 Celsius temps.

Won't you have to heat the building anyway for the Subs and ground floor concrete?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Were still on it, another couple of hours, one more pass I hope.

We are into plus temps starting Saturday and come Monday it will be good to go, spread the lumber load out.

Grade slab will not get poured until the end, after all construction is complete. As for the subs...there won't be heat inside until drywall taping...and it'll be June by then...and no heat to worry about then.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Without heating the slab, I can't see how you could land anything on the deck Early next week without damaging it.
> 
> It is your Cow, worse case you can always have a Bar-B-Que
> 
> ...



Heat for the subs?:laughing:

Do you spoil them like that?


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

One months rent will buy a lot of heat. Winter time you can have the pick of the litter for manning your work here....

Contractor A finishes in 9 months, owner is in the black a year earlier then the builder B that finishes 3 months slow, partial rents 1st year, never as profitable. 

For instance that 2500.00 dollar a month lift that tied down for an extra 90 days


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Fouthgeneration said:


> One months rent will buy a lot of heat. Winter time you can have the pick of the litter for manning your work here....
> 
> Contractor A finishes in 9 months, owner is in the black a year earlier then the builder B that finishes 3 months slow, partial rents 1st year, never as profitable.
> 
> For instance that 2500.00 dollar a month lift that tied down for an extra 90 days


Heat makes them work faster?


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Less competition for subs, better workers for same $ then during the summer rush.
The faster is there is actually workers on the job every business day no matter the temperature.

Not all jobs pay to shack, but 4 story buildings generally do....especially ones with crappy access.

A heated structure will end up with fewer call backs from shrinkage/warping.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Long day for the crew, especially Nick...almost 18 hours in site for him and 15 for me and the finishers.

It's cold, temp is -7, feels like -15 with the wind.

It's in, level, flat and polished, ended up hitting it 5 times with the machine

Neighbour came over about 10 to complain about noise, it's a new helicopter, it's quieter then the bus going down the street. I politely explained it was concrete and we had to finish it, I was waiting for the cops but I guess he figured it was one night and had better live with it, either that or cops couldn't be bothered to come out for this. 

Not 100% sure but I believe since its concrete we are exempt from the Toronto noise bylaw since we can't come back and finish it tomorrow.

Hard parts done...weather is plus temps starting this weekend and framing begins Monday


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

The overtime would have paid for the natural gas....:jester:


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## hammerone40 (May 13, 2012)

What kind of temps have you been able to maintain and what have you guys used to insulate the slab?

Glad it went smooth as could be expected


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

We were around -7c today as a high, about -17 was the overnight. Tomorrow it starts climbing above freezing.

Checked it today, looks good, nothing crystallized or froze so that was good. Got the insulated tarps on it.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Without heating the slab, I can't see how you could land anything on the deck Early next week without damaging it.
> 
> It is your Cow, worse case you can always have a Bar-B-Que
> 
> ...


Weathermix is rated to -7 it sets up fast. Chris was pushing the limit with the low of -12.:whistling


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## hammerone40 (May 13, 2012)

Yeah. Especially a deck with no heat. I would have been nervous. We've placed slab on grade at about 15-20 f with lows to about 0 at night. I love neighbors..... Sure. I'll work noon to two. We should be done in twelve years. Lol


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

-18 Celsius is 0 Fahrenheit 

Weathermix is similar to a high early only for cold temp pours, it allows us to pour in cold temps without compromising strength


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## hammerone40 (May 13, 2012)

I'm glad you guys know that conversion pretty well. It always messes with me.

Woke up one cold morning and they had predicted temps about -0s (f). Guy on radio says it is -30 or so. I'm like holy [email protected]$%#. Start to panic about stuff that won't start or be froze up. Hate my job, etc. 

Then I hear add for Thunder Bay hardware or something.

Gotta love AM radio


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Google is your friend!!! Converts everything!!

One thing most people don't realize is wind chill factor means nothing to materials. 0 is 0 even with say a windchill feels like -10, it's still just 0


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

The exception to will chill of course are objects that lose heat through water evaporation, they can actually get colder than temp of the unsaturated air.....The energy to turn the bleed water into vapour is taken from the uncured crete,slowing further the cure, maybe even freezing it for a few hours...

And we have black body radiation that allow objects on clear nights to cool far below the temperature of the dry clear atmosphere, roof frost, desert sherbet production .

Heat wave here, working all weekend to catch up, I hate wet socks/mud.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Woo hoo, lumber arrived yesterday! Did all our header cuts yesterday and kinda set the stage for production today! Lots of lumber, pics to follow :thumbup:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Heres a few pictures.. ill post later. :whistling

This is great, lots of fun.I often find myself pointing to all the stacks of lumber and reminding the guys that "this is what dreams are made of" :laughing:


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## FullerFramer (Feb 5, 2010)

Whats with the shims under the bottom plate Nick?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

FullerFramer said:


> Whats with the shims under the bottom plate Nick?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Slab slopes in that area to the roof deck drains beyond those walls


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## FullerFramer (Feb 5, 2010)

Chris Johnson said:


> Slab slopes in that area to the roof deck drains beyond those walls



I figured that slab slopes I was questioning Nick as to why he didn't do one of the following;

-Cut studs to proper height (I know its not ideal from a production standpoint, but if you are cutting them anyways)
-Shims directly placed on slab, so non-shrinkable grout could be placed in ideal spot

My question to you is do you plan on filling that gap between plates with grout?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

FullerFramer said:


> I figured that slab slopes I was questioning Nick as to why he didn't do one of the following;
> 
> -Cut studs to proper height (I know its not ideal from a production standpoint, but if you are cutting them anyways)
> -Shims directly placed on slab, so non-shrinkable grout could be placed in ideal spot
> ...


The ceiling height is 8'9", so 3 bottom plates, 3 top plates and a 96" stud, no cutting required, 3 plates was bad enough, didn't want a 4th one.

The shims are being placed directly below the stud to keep continuous, couple nails shot in to secure. Spray foam will fill the gap.

We have a PT plate on the bottom with poly beneath and sill gasket nailed to slab, next plate is regular SPF nailed to PT, framed wall on top, levelled at that point.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Won't the subs get tired of drilling through the super plates, I see a change order for sparky and leaky and the tin bender....

locally no one shims anything but a church and their own house.....If the footers un-level the fascia board is too.


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## Framer87 (Dec 27, 2014)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Won't the subs get tired of drilling through the super plates, I see a change order for sparky and leaky and the tin bender....
> 
> locally no one shims anything but a church and their own house.....If the footers un-level the fascia board is too.


:O really???


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Won't the subs get tired of drilling through the super plates, I see a change order for sparky and leaky and the tin bender....
> 
> 
> 
> locally no one shims anything but a church and their own house.....If the footers un-level the fascia board is too.



Sparky is the only one on exterior walls here. Interior walls are drywall studs. 

Next floor up is back to standard double top single bottom plate


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Clearly I have been pretty busy (12-13 hours most days ) so i figure i might post an update. We are getting the 4th floor system dropped on Monday. All the 3rd floor walls are up. 
This site continues to have me scratching my head with all the challenges it poses. The tight quarters mean that we can only drop the framing material on the deck, which equates to a lot of double-triple handling in order to continue building. When staging material i do my best to scatter it in a logical order but even the best effort is still bad :laughing:
Not only that, the laneway where the crane sets up is small and very busy with lots of trucks making deliveries to a small appliance shop.

As far as safety , railings everywhere, tie off points and nobody dares to get on top of a wall. The ministry of labour has not been by yet but i am sure they are watching. Unfortunately there was a fatal accident about 2 minutes away from the site on Friday so we are anticipating a visit at some point in the near future. I am not worried because we are following all the safety regulations.

We had a crew that was working independently before this come in and work with/ for us. Long story short we knew that if something better (in their eyes) came up they would leave. Blah blah, Monday morning 3 hours into the day the boss came to me and said "ok we gotta go" very casually :laughing:
In layman's terms they ****ed off and left us hanging. But we found guys to replace them and everyone we hired so far has been very good and fit in with our original crew. Not much of a loss actually.
That was defiantly a bit of shock.. never had that happen before.

I gotta say this has been more difficult then i anticipated, as far as production goes it is not nearly as easy as a normal house frame All the steps and prep involved to just build one wall is very labor intensive. If you break down the amount of framing, under normal circumstances it would be pretty quick and easy.. up here its much different. 
But i still like it! I wanna get this floor system framed and capped in 2 days. Trying to beat 6 days per floor

As far as overseeing a job like this, i have been experimenting with different types of leadership. Guys know their delegated tasks and i more or less do layout and just float around filling in where i see fit.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)




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## FullerFramer (Feb 5, 2010)

FramingPro said:


> View attachment 161378
> View attachment 161386
> View attachment 161394
> View attachment 161402
> View attachment 161410



Nice work Nick. I thought you weren't going to use a double bottom plate after the first floor?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

FullerFramer said:


> Nice work Nick. I thought you weren't going to use a double bottom plate after the first floor?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Triple plate on the slab, double bottom plate is because the upper floors get 1 3/4" of concrete topping for sound and fire rating.. drywaller still has backer and a form for the concrete to stop. I would rather not do a double plate, plan says


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## hammerone40 (May 13, 2012)

Looks good. Some sites are always a pain. No matter how you try to work. 

Keep the guys safe and on schedule. I think you got a good handle on things but never get cocky. That is when things jump up and bite you.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Looks good, I'd see if you could arrange some off site parking/valet service for the workers and some subs. to free up space.

Take a few minutes once or twice a day to write down what is working and what didn't, three years from now it save your hard won knowledge from loss.

Rarely see steel studs and fiber board next to wood, fire rated room/elevator?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Looks good, I'd see if you could arrange some off site parking/valet service for the workers and some subs. to free up space.
> 
> Take a few minutes once or twice a day to write down what is working and what didn't, three years from now it save your hard won knowledge from loss.
> 
> Rarely see steel studs and fiber board next to wood, fire rated room/elevator?



Parking is a bit of a pain but at least they don't enforce tickets. I carpool with 1 guy, i tell everyone they are welcome to meet me at my house and take my truck down... Thats partially why i bought my magic school bus... we take 1 professional company truck down and nobody has to worry about commuting or parking. :whistling

The steel studs are close to property lines... which has me confused because some areas that are closer to buildings are not steel... plan says so..


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

My new business card is going to say " I'll tell you when you're wrong about Masonry..."

So they are subbing out the Yes Man positins on the West Coast, how thoroughly modern. No Pensions, Perqs, parking spots, or office space needed. 

Get Paid and on to the next one!:thumbup:


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

Fouthgeneration said:


> My new business card is going to say " I'll tell you when you're wrong about Masonry..."
> 
> So they are subbing out the Yes Man positins on the West Coast, how thoroughly modern. No Pensions, Perqs, parking spots, or office space needed.
> 
> Get Paid and on to the next one!:thumbup:


You are an amazing ******* and internet tough guy. 

Have you provided any information regarding your company, or where you are actually located, or what your name is, or why you think you are the best at everything and everyone else is wrong, or any real experience?


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Dan Watson, Have you ever discussed with either your underwriters or business attorney how sharing advice over the Internet could back fire on your finances?

That would just as silly as posting pictures of current work-sites that violated various OSHA regs.....

My anonymity doesn't reduce the accuracy or truthfulness of any of my comments.

Sadly many posters on this site are self taught, forced in to reinventing the most common techniques in their struggle to achieve journeyman level abilities and production volumes in their various trades. 

Amazingly, a surprising % of the world's Know-How is held by A#$holes like me. :jester:

I'm far from either a know it all or Mr. Perfect, but I'll let anyone that is below average know they need to stay after school for a some remedial lessons.

Praising some mediocre workmanship isn't doing anyone any good.

I watch the "view" if I wanted to feel better about myself without actually doing anything positive.

I apologize to any one who's feelings I've hurt letting them know they might be room for improvement on their work output and or quality.:whistling


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Your delivery could use work.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Dan Watson, Have you ever discussed with either your underwriters or business attorney how sharing advice over the Internet could back fire on your finances?
> 
> That would just as silly as posting pictures of current work-sites that violated various OSHA regs.....
> 
> ...


First of all your identity isn't hidden. I could find out who you are in a few hours. 

Second if your advice is sound and you are the expert you think you are what would you have to worry about. 

I was taught to be a man and not hide behind the curtain. You can be sued for anything, living in fear is for the weak.


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Dan Watson, Have you ever discussed with either your underwriters or business attorney how sharing advice over the Internet could back fire on your finances?
> 
> That would just as silly as posting pictures of current work-sites that violated various OSHA regs.....
> 
> ...


Don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back. A lot of us "other guys" have great resumes too and know a hell of a lot. And guess what, we're not a**holes about it. :thumbsup:


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Easy Gibson:, Letting an OPer know they need to tighten up doesn't need to be wrapped in perfume and apologies.

TNT services: Ignoring the massive monetary losses possible from giving "free" expert advice on a public forum is in my opinion financially suicidal.
have you asked your underwrite/lawyer what your charity posts might cost you?

Slowsol: Then where are these "pros" when the rough boys post their master pieces? "we'll let 4th be the bad guy, and we'll suck up to bootennater OPer...."

I'm not going to spend a paragraph greasing up a legitimate issue. If It is below average, lying about it isn't helping the Opers or the Customers or trades. 

Posting or taking your produce to the State Fair, be prepared for honest useful negative feedback from masses.

I'm here to learn, the comments are just my idea of high quality payback for what I've learned. I not here for or to give Internet hugs.:no:


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

So we wrapped up 95% of this project, awaiting mechanicals then we can backframe, our welder is back from vacation this week so he can fabricate in place the front 3 balconies.

Sometime in October we will do the parking garage slab

Started the new project today about 5 blocks away, 25,000 sq.ft. with 23 units and a footprint of 120'x85' this will keep us busy for quite a few months. The underground structure is 800 m3 (1050 cu.yds.) and 152,000 l/f of rebar of various sizes from 10m to 30m (#4 to #8) and we fabricate all our own stirrups


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Good luck on the next one, it sounds like your working in the big leagues now.

Why do you make your own stirrups?, $, quality, speedy delivery? less space needed for the rebar yard? shop drawing issues? just finding the right pieces in the pile/warehousing? Or simplifies assembly complexity by bending in place?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Easy Gibson:, Letting an OPer know they need to tighten up doesn't need to be wrapped in perfume and apologies.
> 
> TNT services: Ignoring the massive monetary losses possible from giving "free" expert advice on a public forum is in my opinion financially suicidal.
> have you asked your underwrite/lawyer what your charity posts might cost you?
> ...


Nope. Don't care. I can be sued by anyone at anytime and have everything taken away. I could be sued for giving cpr, but it's not going to stop me from helping someone in need. Same here. I'm not going to let fear be my compass.

And if you have given any advice the ananimity you think you have is false. Unless you are an Internet guru and have routed your ip through several proxies you aren't hidden at all. The forum knows your ip and from that all can be known. It wouldn't be hard to find out who you are.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Good luck on the next one, it sounds like your working in the big leagues now.
> 
> Why do you make your own stirrups?, $, quality, speedy delivery? less space needed for the rebar yard? shop drawing issues? just finding the right pieces in the pile/warehousing? Or simplifies assembly complexity by bending in place?


We have the man power, it is cheaper to do it in house.. plus we are able to make minor adjustments to site conditions if need be. Id rather that... then re ordering 2000 stirrups :whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

FramingPro said:


> We have the man power, it is cheaper to do it in house.. plus we are able to make minor adjustments to site conditions if need be. Id rather that... then re ordering 2000 stirrups :whistling


Do you have a hydraulic bender for that or do you get to do it all with a hickey bender?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> Do you have a hydraulic bender for that or do you get to do it all with a hickey bender?


The Hickey Bar for 30m was a little much for our 120lb guys...so I bought them a new bender :laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Chris Johnson said:


> The Hickey Bar for 30m was a little much for our 120lb guys...so I bought them a new bender :laughing:


120 pound guy? You mean a girl?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I told them we use to use the bumper on the trucks to bend rebar, apparently the engineer didn't think that was a good idea. Plus we have about 1000 dowels in the footing to be cut and bent...that'll definitely mess up someones bumper


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris Johnson said:


> The Hickey Bar for 30m was a little much for our 120lb guys...so I bought them a new bender :laughing:



What bender did you buy?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Multiquip MB25A


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## S.U.M (Apr 17, 2013)

Chris Johnson said:


> So we wrapped up 95% of this project, awaiting mechanicals then we can backframe, our welder is back from vacation this week so he can fabricate in place the front 3 balconies.
> 
> Sometime in October we will do the parking garage slab
> 
> Started the new project today about 5 blocks away, 25,000 sq.ft. with 23 units and a footprint of 120'x85' this will keep us busy for quite a few months. The underground structure is 800 m3 (1050 cu.yds.) and 152,000 l/f of rebar of various sizes from 10m to 30m (#4 to #8) and we fabricate all our own stirrups



Where do you begin Chris, 152,000l/f, eek. I wish I had those skills.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

S.U.M said:


> Where do you begin Chris, 152,000l/f, eek. I wish I had those skills.


1 piece at a time


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

S.U.M said:


> Where do you begin Chris, 152,000l/f, eek. I wish I had those skills.


Be careful what you wish for :laughing:
. If you are interested in following this next build i started a thread in the construction section and labeled it "23 unit building"


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris Johnson said:


> Multiquip MB25A



Very cool, you for sure spent some dough on that... The company I work for runs our own fab shop. #4 through #8 are spool fed and sheared to length so there is no waste. We have 3 guys and a detailer full time at the fab shop and they still don't keep up with all our self perform concrete.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I find most times when I order pre-made rebar that I am either waiting or need to change something and it is a pain sorting it out on large jobs. Fabricating our own keeps guys employed.

Price wasn't bad, under 5k CDN


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris Johnson said:


> I find most times when I order pre-made rebar that I am either waiting or need to change something and it is a pain sorting it out on large jobs. Fabricating our own keeps guys employed.
> 
> Price wasn't bad, under 5k CDN



Are you fabing at the shop or on site? How are you shipping?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

It's summer, we fab on site. Set up a work station and it's all done there. In the winter when it's cold we fab in the shop, even built the cages in full and then load up the flatbed trailer and ship to site


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## Contractor Joe (Sep 28, 2011)

FramingPro said:


> Here we go.
> This is the newest site that i am going to be overseeing. It is a 4 story apartment building. Concrete columns and heavy steel to make the first floor deck, then 3 stories of wood to go up :thumbsup::thumbsup:
> As if it that does not sound difficult enough already there are a few more factors that really make it interesting.
> There are no square corners in the building, the closest thing to square is a 90.35* angle.
> ...


Best of luck with that project!

We just recently go a contract for a large scale company that develops rentals/apartments/condos; somewhere around 150 are being built and we maintain and clean up shop! Certainly a blessing in disguise.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Heres a progress pics. Exterior finish is 80% complete, the building works in that space. The stucco actually looks really nice. Very unique building!

Those suspended balconies are defiantly a nice touch, learned to operate a man lift too.

Once we finish the balconies (which were held up by the brick layer) Our portion will be done on this job. 

The units are mostly drywalled. Interesting to see the building once it is all closed in. 

Proud to have this one under my belt. :thumbsup:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Few of the stucco (pre purple)


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Suspended balconies!


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Finito, need to snap some of the interior . Real nice to be able to say "I built that"


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Congrats! Grab a beer or 5.:thumbsup:


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