# Hang and Finish or Just Hang



## Hardibuilt (Jul 16, 2005)

I was wanting to get your opinion on which you feel is the best way to get the best quality end result.

Do you only hang and another crew finishes or are you one stop shops. 

Some will say that we are all specialists some are better hangers while others are the best finishers.

Others say that there is only one neck to wring if a company does it all, hang and finish. Nobody else to blame other than the framers.

Thanks for the input.


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## taper71 (Dec 5, 2006)

I used to hang and finish. I only finish now though. I got sick of unreliable help for hanging. On a different note i believe every boarder should be a taper as well. It makes them better IMO


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

I agree with Taper, even if you don't hang & finish as your trade, you should still know how to do both.

For residential(new homes and additions)..we hang and finish. I do not mess with anything else.

For Commercial, which is more of what I do..we furnish & install the metal framing, insulation, drywall, finishing, acoustics, doors & hardware, and cove base. 

I have always believed that the more versitile you are, the more in demand you are. 

Besides, if you do it all, and something goes wrong, you have no one to blame but yourself.


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## 1KingOfDrywall (Jan 14, 2007)

*good points being made here*

I was originally a finisher BUT once I started my own company I had to learn how to Hang as well. I had a better understanding of how to hang because I knew what finishers expected. In my opinion to be the best you can be at the trade you gotta know every aspect inside and out.
Now as far as my workers go I do prefer to keep them only good at 1 thing and 1 thing only. Hangers hang, and finishers finish. But if you are in business for yourself you gotta know it all inside and out. I can honestly say in the past few years I have never-EVER been stumped on a drywall issue. I attribute that to the fact that I don't just finish but hang,repair,texture,plaster etc. If it's a ceiling or a wall...I do it all.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Is there a reason why you guys don't offer to paint your finished work? Working with one company for everything would be much easier on the GC/HO?


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

dougchips said:


> Is there a reason why you guys don't offer to paint your finished work? Working with one company for everything would be much easier on the GC/HO?


 
Personally for me, my work consists of new developments..strip malls, restaurants, pad sites, tenant fit outs,etc..

When I take on a project like an office complex, and I have 60-100 fit outs on the contract, every minutes counts. After I frame, my guys can move onto the next space while the electricians,plumbers, and HVAC guys do what they gotta do, than I come back and can hang the rock, finish it, sand it, and hang the doors. Than the painters get in, spray it out, and the other trades come back in and do thier finals. After that THAN I can come back and install the acoustics, install the door hardware and run the cove base, do my punch out work and sign it off..that is how my jobs work. If I took the time to paint, it would just put me behind that much longer. This way by the time it the first shell is ready for punch out, I have 6 or 7 more framed and 3 or 4 sheetrocked & finished, so it keeps on moving along.

I used to paint, and I still do, but only 2 or 3 times a year. I am actually quite good at it, but only cut-in & rolling out, I can't use a sprayer and I don't have any desire to learn. I found that in new construction, it is better to let each sub do what they do best, let the framers frame, the hangers hang, the painters paint, the trimmers trim, etc..

I came up as a general contractor working for my father before I decided to leave him and go to work for a company that specialized in commercial interiors. But my dad did it all, from foundation to punch out, and I found even though we were great at what we did, we took longer than someone who did it everyday. I can perform just about any trade minus electrical,plumbing,& HVAC, because I did it all for so many years. General contractors can do ALL of it, but a guy that paints once a project, is not going to be as fast as a guy that paints everyday. There are plenty of guys here in Maryland that are "XXX Drywall & Paint" or "XXX Paint & Drywall". But most of them do more painting than hanging, I only know one guy that hangs,finishes, and paints new homes, and he is not even licensed.

As far as residential goes, I do only do high end homes, and I just don't have the time to go back and prime and paint 1100 sheets plus doors & trim,lol.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Mud, how about a seperate painting crew? With your volume of work you could have painters fighting for your business!

BTW, you seem to have your stuff together, I just view it as a few extra dollars going ito someone elses pocket.


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## phinsher (Oct 27, 2005)

we're on a MUCH MUCH smaller scale than Mud Master, but the little home improvement contractors we work for love the fact that we'll hang, finish and paint. Even offereing to prime would be a bonus.

I know you're not interested, but if you change your mind, I could drag my sprayer over to B-more, show you the basics in the morning, and you can teach me how to finish a little more effeciently in the afternoon. :cheesygri


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## 1KingOfDrywall (Jan 14, 2007)

*I think that's a good point BUT where do you draw the line?*

I mean as a finisher even beginning in the trade I did 60 homes a year leading a crew. Over time you begin to get extremely fast. I don't think one could master all those trades. You would be spreading yourself thin. I mean let's face it, if one could install and finish, than paint.....should he jump into plumbing and roofing and whatever else needs done.? I've picked up on painting,but it takes years upon years to master a single trade....I am no painting contractor...trust me. I like to dabble in it because I feel it makes me a better drywall finisher, but at the end of the day, I still call myself a finisher by trade. I have hung over 70 homes a year 1 year and sorta laid off of finishing when I started my business, and still....I am no expert hanger. My opinion is you would get maximum results as a customer hirng crews that specialize at 1 thing or another. Let's face it...have you ever seen someone who claims to be a jack of all trades? They take 5 days to hang 30 sheets and 5 more to finish them and so on.In a previous post we were discussing textures and someone was trying to figure out how to do it. Well, I sorta specialize in decorative textures and for the most part I don't care if it's 1000 sheets.....it gets done in 1 day GUARANTEED. But I personally mastered that. Damn.....somebody stop me next time I take off rambling...lol. Bottom line....specializing in 1 thing is whats efficient.:thumbsup:


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> I don't care if it's 1000 sheets.....it gets done in 1 day GUARANTEED.


  You can stop now! Heh, jk'ing. You must be very fast or have a good sized crew!


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

*Sanding repairs*

You guys ever use a coarser grit to sand mud on walls or ceilings that have years of paint on them and are a little rough than you would normally use? Talking repairs here.


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## 1KingOfDrywall (Jan 14, 2007)

*lmao.......maybe a little exageration......*

I meant ceilings only. Not like a roll stomp. Are you being serious?
Absolutely no exageration, but a like 10ftx-12ft room literally takes less than 1 minute to spray (splatter) ceilings only-NO JOKE. Right?
I can tell you it takes me and 1 other guy less than 3 hours to do a roll stomp knockdown, AND roll coat the walls in a 3 car garage--is that considered extremely fast?? Now you got me thinking?? Since our average new construction homes here in my end of ohio are only around 2200-2700 sq ft. I can tell you that when those homes get roll-stomp ceilings, they get textured and power sanded in 1 day 100% of the time no exceptions, than we finish sand and look over the next days.ALWAYS. Does this sound about right? The only factor is I can tell you that my finishers are NON smokers and all ex-athletes-bodybuilders.
Only some of my hangers are boozers.? Is that sound unrealistic? If so I am extremely flattered. Certainly not trying to brag at all. How long does it take you? I always had this silly theory--you never do it any better going slower.:thumbsup:


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

Well, King ya got me there..here in Maryland texturing is unheard of in new construction. Only time it gets done is if a homeowner requests it in a exsisting home from years ago. I can do stipple and popcorn, from previous employment..15 years ago lol.

Phisner..where ya located? I would be interested in that!!

Doug..I have thought about it MANY times. I will paint if I do something for a contractor that does not have anyone to do it, or if it makes it easier on them, but with my regular builders and developers..they have large industrial painters that bang out 2 or 3 shells a day. It did cross my mind at one time to start another division, however I got tied up with my builders, and it never happened.

I have expanded into building FIREWALLS in between the tenant shells, which is a specialty, as there are only 4 or 5 contractors in the area that do it. Also, EIFS(Dryvit) is really taking off here, and my superintendent and I know how to do it from working for an drywall & EIFS contractor togeather at one time. Plus my developers have a real problem finding a good contractor to perform all thier EIFS installations. So lately I have been thinking about opening up an EIFS division, working strictly for the same guys I do now. It would require expanding a little larger and faster than I planned, but we will see. I was going to start a thread on this in the General Discussion, but I never got the chance. But that is what has been going through my mind lately as far as expansion. It would just make me that more versitile.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

My bad King. I think I was thinking hanging and finishing. I'm not a drywaller per se. Have done a little. Very little relatively speaking. I know spray texturing goes real fast under the right circumstances. Only experience there for me is my lr ( too heavy) and my washroom/ breakfast nook (too light).


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## phinsher (Oct 27, 2005)

MudMaster,
I'm over on the eastern shore, about 90 minutes from B-more. I've got a good bit of experience in commercial painting, but specialize in residential stuff now. Shoot me a PM if you want to set something up.


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## 1KingOfDrywall (Jan 14, 2007)

*boman47k......*

Elaborate a little more on your sanding question. I do a ton of repairs-restorations etc, I may have your answer,but I was kinda unclear on your question. Provide a few more specifics.:thumbsup:


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Sometimes in the older houses there are years of paint buildup (trash/boogers, different nap lengths,etc..). Many times these walls are left with a rough texture and it seems 220 grit might be a little fine and leaves a smooth section of wall which shows as a diiferent shade of paint regardless of primer. I just experienced this. I sanded and painted the whole wall to make it look better. Pretty much took care of the problem.


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

Why stop at hanging and taping?

My point is: Why limit yourself to just the needs of 'one' field. 

If you do, you may find yourself having to beg for work......


I don't mean that you should take on jobs that you do not know how to do, rather, why not *learn* how to do other facets of/other areas...in the construction field?

Just something to think about..........


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## FleshnerDrywall (Dec 9, 2006)

I agree with you Atlantic we hang, finish, texture and paint.

I myself am not to involved with the painting part but have employees that are really good at painting


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## taper71 (Dec 5, 2006)

AtlanticWBConst said:


> Why stop at hanging and taping?
> 
> My point is: Why limit yourself to just the needs of 'one' field.
> 
> ...


 
I would agree with you on this if the market is slow in your area, or if there is certain times of the year where you have time to learn different aspects of other trades. It took me 16 years to learn what I have of Boarding and finishing and I am still learning to this date. I am at a point where I make really good money and for me to put a stop to that to lose money on learning something else- That would take years to learn properly- Is imo counterproductive.


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