# easiest method to pour mud into sonotubes



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Buddy with the "funnel" attachment for his skidder bucket is out of town and I need to pour 3.5yrd of mud into 12" and 16" sonotubes, I've been spoiled and never gave this any thought about doing it any other way so wondering how you guys are doing it??

Was thinking of constructing a trough that is a tad wider than the skidder bucket and have it angle down and come out a "chute" so to speak over each tube so I can just dump in the concrete and have the guys push it with shovels towards the hole and let it gravity feed into the tubes then lift up the contraption and move it over top of the next sonotube. more money and focking around building it than I want but cant think of an easier option right now...refuse to do this by the shovel fulls, will take too much time.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

*pouring mud*

years ago,a local contractor here,used an old heatalator firbox for a dump.he turned it upside down,welded a plate on the box to enclose the firebox,welded a couple places for forks on the forklift,and tied a rope to the damper control.then he filled the firebox,moved it to where he needed it,and pulled the rope to open the damper, releasing the concrete.it tool him about 2 hours to build it and got a world of good out of it.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

I thought about just having the truck just use the chute since this is new construct in the open on it's own lot, but the way they ran the geo thermal under ground I'm not willing to take any chances at screwing that system up even though the chances are slim.

The firebox is a good idea, just dont have any round here I can think of to use as the base, not to mention by the time I bought the steel to fab it up I could probably make 5 out of wood LOL!! These metal prices are insane!!!!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

A compromise would be by the wheel barrow. There is a special wheel barrow with a narrow mouth so it will pour concrete out the front of it into a tube very easily.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

If you got two guys running goon spoons anyhow, just let them at it, you run the machine and tell them to work faster.:thumbsup:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

reveivl said:


> If you got two guys running goon spoons anyhow, just let them at it, you run the machine and tell them to work faster.:thumbsup:


:laughing: :laughing: 

I could and they would but I dont expect my help to do anything I wont do...and I refuse to do manual labor like that when there are alternatives to make life easier and the job faster:thumbup: . Everybody's happier and physically in good shape from not killing themselves. I'm too nice, I know 

Mike, this is soft terrain and all I can see is the help dumping a wheel barrow full of mud I've seen those things though and it's the same conceopt of the bucket attachment for the skidder. Gonna come up with a solution today 1 way or another.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

How deep are the tubes?


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

Josh,
I made a 3 sided box that slides into the bucket on my skid steer, reinforced with 2 x's, put a slide up trap door on it similar to the ones you see on tailgates of small dumps. Strap it to the bucket with chains or nylon straps. I'd say it holds 1/4 to 1/3 of a yard and works slicker than snot. Took me about 1 hr. to whip it up.:thumbup:


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## [email protected]&R (Jul 26, 2005)

I hand the $6 an hour guy a shovel oh thats after a hoe and poly tub of course. We have an unlimited supply of guys that will dig a ditch from TN to NY for $6 or $8 an hour.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

T: holes will be 42" deep for frost footing depth, tubes are 48" so will have approx. 6" above grade. I dont want to pour them any wetter than necessary so I think trying a regular wheel barrel will lead to too much seepage off the sides.

Joe: great idea about the 3 sided box, how much "run off/seepage" did you have with the simple design like that? I think this design will work fine plus I will be bringing in extra hands/shovels and pails for the hard to get at tubes so hopefully this will go pretty smoothly.

They were calling for storms AGAIN tomorrow but latest check is all sunny the next 2 days so hopefully everything will go smooth as silk.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Yahoos with shovels is the best solution I can see.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Tscarborough said:


> Yahoos with shovels is the best solution I can see.


I always feel bad watching them work while I play in the machines, but wtf I'm paying them to make life easier I guess...I'm just too nice sometimes LOL!!


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

IHI said:


> I always feel bad watching them work while I play in the machines, but wtf I'm paying them to make life easier I guess...I'm just too nice sometimes LOL!!


Exactly! Its your business. You pay them to do the **** you dont want to do. Its called life.:clap: :clap:


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

> Exactly! Its your business. You pay them to do the **** you dont want to do. Its called life


i agree,but,how many of us can sit by and not want to get up and help?

which brings me to another question.how many of us feel guilty for taking a day off during the middle of the week?i woke up this morning and said the hell with it.i worked by myself yesterday(my hand was sick,day after payday one day flu)and was tired when i got home.now i am sitting at the house feeling rotten that i should be on the job.i did drive to another town and pick up a small job this morning,but now i feel like hell.guess when the bar opens ill head down for some diet dp and shuffle board.arty:


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I'm thinking that a smart guy could come up with something made out of an old water heater, LP tank, boiler casing, fuel oil tank that would work great for filling tubes. Here, they're mostly incorporated into the slab and not a problem to fill.

stacker, I always take days off during the week. There's less fishing pressure and most of the IDIOT boaters are working. No guilt at all.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

IHI said:


> T: holes will be 42" deep for frost footing depth, tubes are 48" so will have approx. 6" above grade. I dont want to pour them any wetter than necessary so I think trying a regular wheel barrel will lead to too much seepage off the sides.
> 
> Joe: great idea about the 3 sided box, how much "run off/seepage" did you have with the simple design like that? I think this design will work fine plus I will be bringing in extra hands/shovels and pails for the hard to get at tubes so hopefully this will go pretty smoothly.
> 
> They were calling for storms AGAIN tomorrow but latest check is all sunny the next 2 days so hopefully everything will go smooth as silk.


Josh,
The way I built it and strapped it to the bucket I had no lost of product.:thumbsup:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I had to do a mess of parking lot light bases a short while ago. They were 24" tubes, but the regular chute on the truck did a fine job. I know that my concrete supplier has a chute they can bring along that necks down smaller if you ask them to. Perhaps yours does too? Granted, you can't always back up a truck to where you're pouring tubes. 

My biggest gripe about pouring tubes is that I get nailed with a "demurrage fee" (delay fee) for every batch that gets poured into tubes. That makes me a little angry. If they can't pull up and slide the whole load off in a quick go, they want you to pay extra. Do you other guys have this same experience?


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

stacker said:


> which brings me to another question.how many of us feel guilty for taking a day off during the middle of the week?i woke up this morning and said the hell with it


Looks like someone will be working Saturday :laughing: :laughing:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

First day this week with no rain so we went over with the mini skid to dig the 4- 18" x 48" holes for the hot tub footings and 15- 15" x48" holes for the beam footings. Typical new contruct after a week of rain-nice and muddy:furious:  First 3-6" was black dirt then after that was sand so digging was easy and this machine once again never skipped a beat or broke a sweat digging it...I actually grew tired of running it but the body felt great. LOTS of concrete chunks from the foundation crew and even more tree rots on the south side where that ole tree is pictured in first few shots, made it kinda hard since it'd want to turn the bit sideways/lean the bit so we had to go back and clean up by hand since trying to take a half hole bite did'nt work with the different ways I tried it...funniest part was new guy never complained a bit when I had him go back through and clean up the holes and tamp the bottoms:clap: not the fastest guy I've ever had, but has yet to complain about anything:thumbup: 


























Homeies mother stopped by clowing smoke up my azz about how great I've been to work with thus far and apologized the deck went from show case to run of the mill AND THEN asks if her daughter had mentioned the new staircase location?? I'm now on the 14th....yes 14th revision to this SOB:furious: I told her it's going to cost since i had already takedn the machine back other wise I coulda just laid out the 4 more footings for the bump out and now have to reform where stair slab will be poured:furious: 

Then I could'nt get ahold of this cities inspector to see if he wanted to look at the naked holes or if he's let me set up the sonotubes and then check...6 voice mails and finally I told the secretary to schedule a inspection for first thing tomorrow so at least I can meet this guy and move forward..did'nt bother putting tubes in since you know if I did I'd have to pull then out by the time we set up all the sonotubes it will be too late to call for mud so I'm just hosed for a Fri pour so like the rest of the spring/summer will continue the weekend schedule to try and stay somewhat on task...this blows working every weekend:blink:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

First day this week with no rain so we went over with the mini skid to dig the 4- 18" x 48" holes for the hot tub footings and 15- 15" x48" holes for the beam footings. Typical new contruct after a week of rain-nice and muddy:furious:  First 3-6" was black dirt then after that was sand so digging was easy and this machine once again never skipped a beat or broke a sweat digging it...I actually grew tired of running it but the body felt great. LOTS of concrete chunks from the foundation crew and even more tree rots on the south side where that ole tree is pictured in first few shots, made it kinda hard since it'd want to turn the bit sideways/lean the bit so we had to go back and clean up by hand since trying to take a half hole bite did'nt work with the different ways I tried it...funniest part was new guy never complained a bit when I had him go back through and clean up the holes and tamp the bottoms:clap: not the fastest guy I've ever had, but has yet to complain about anything:thumbup: 


























Homeies mother stopped by clowing smoke up my azz about how great I've been to work with thus far and apologized the deck went from show case to run of the mill AND THEN asks if her daughter had mentioned the new staircase location?? I'm now on the 14th....yes 14th revision to this SOB I told her it's going to cost since i had already takedn the machine back other wise I coulda just laid out the 4 more footings for the bump out and now have to reform where stair slab will be poured 

Then I could'nt get ahold of this cities inspector to see if he wanted to look at the naked holes or if he's let me set up the sonotubes and then check...6 voice mails and finally I told the secretary to schedule a inspection for first thing tomorrow so at least I can meet this guy and move forward..did'nt bother putting tubes in since you know if I did I'd have to pull then out by the time we set up all the sonotubes it will be too late to call for mud so I'm just hosed for a Fri pour so like the rest of the spring/summer will continue the weekend schedule to try and stay somewhat on task...this blows working every weekend


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

"My biggest gripe about pouring tubes is that I get nailed with a "demurrage fee" (delay fee) for every batch that gets poured into tubes. That makes me a little angry. If they can't pull up and slide the whole load off in a quick go, they want you to pay extra. Do you other guys have this same experience?"

We get the first hour free and then they can start the meter. Often they don't, however, specially if you know the drivers. Rich.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Teetor: I think your onto something for the future. I may start searching for an old worn out but in good shape funnel shaped hopper like they use for seeding/fertalizer on a PTO set-up. All metal, funnels down to a hole that you could make smaller/larger and easily weld some steel on to stick forks in:clap: 

I know I can get old propane tanks but I dont think as dry as I like to pour it would funnel through necessarily so the inverted teepee shaped cone idea would be great, add a small electric vibrator like they use on salt/sand spreaders so if it clogs you give it a short burst, then it vibrates the mud out....BRILLANT:w00t: :clap: :clap: :laughing:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> My biggest gripe about pouring tubes is that I get nailed with a "demurrage fee" (delay fee) for every batch that gets poured into tubes. That makes me a little angry. If they can't pull up and slide the whole load off in a quick go, they want you to pay extra. Do you other guys have this same experience?


It is usual to pay truck time beyond the "normal" time you would have to get the mud placed. What is a rip about it is it isn't fairly applied. But what is fair in concrete? WE pour a lot of mud, so the ready mix place will try to keep me happy. A year ago, I needed 8 yards on a saturday, called, and the new owner said $150 added charge for Saturday pours. I said awsome!..then CANCEL...and hung up. I called for mud 18 miles away, no Saturday charge, and they were really nice about it. Now when I call the local ready mix, it is a little different tune. They lost probably 400 yards of mud from me when I went out of town, and I don't pay truck time either. I wouldn't get away with this with a big company, or in a bigger town. 

The guy I learned a lot about concrete from had a different perspective. He said he "owns" the mud in the truck, and the driver will place it how he wants it. He always said never let the driver run the pour and I know a lot of guys who have hell for the very reason...letting the truck driver dictate how fast they unload.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

*alva concrete*

jo,you should try alva concrete. since enid concrete took them over and bought out the other redi mix plant in alva,service went down a boatload.the only way you will get saturday delivery here is if you are a road construction company.i have been down several time to pick up mason sand and they didnt have anyone to run the loader(everyone was out pouring a new bridge :furious: )but the girl in the office told me i was free to shovel it on my trailer.:blink: i told her i would answer her phones and she could do the shoveling.she didnt go for it. i had a job about 5 blocks from the plant last year and they charged me 25.00 free for delivery.if i had a place to keep it i would order a load from woodward at 6 dollars a ton and 200.00 delivery for 60 miles,instead i have to pay18.00 a ton downtown.


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Those trucks could be elsewhere making money.I don't blame them one bit.It's just that if I got 5 guys sitting there and the truck's two hours late,I expect something in compensation


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I get 48 bucks a yard (1.4 tons), and can't keep my bins full, and refuse to make deliveries (18 Yards ONLY) because I don't have time to mess with it. (Masonry sand, not concrete)


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

tkle,i dont know if you were referring to my last post or not,but in case you were here is my point.
if you are going to run a concrete plant and sell sand(mason and fill)along with gravel and other materials.then it seems like you would have at least someone in the yard who could run a loader at all times.i can see the ,we cant deliver right now because we dont have a driver.but not to be able to load material for a customer,is bad business as far as im concerned.


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Actually I was refering to the mixer trucks.Some people take forever to offload.They don't want to pay for a pump or they have more than 1 job to pour or they're just slow.
I have the same problem getting sand.No one to run the skiploader.Calling the dispatch, I can usually tell when a driver will be in the yard.That is if someone isn't taking too long to offload...


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

Josh, real simple fix to your dilemma of getting crete down a tube that is 6" or 30" abovegrade, weather or not you are using bigfoot or not is irrelavant, just pour all your holes by wheelbarrow to just a few inches below grade, then put your tubes in the holes, and finnish off with a shovel, I do this every time and it works like a charm, if I have piers cast over 30" above grade than I resort to doing above procedure but just finish them off with crete in my skid bucket, I did exactly as you described by cutting a 6"dia hole centered in the "crook" of my bucket with just a few pieces of 1/4" flat bar welded on to create a channel for a 1/4" piece of teflon to shift side to side. 4 pieces of 1/4 flat bar and one piece of what ever for a sliding gate. Hope this helps:thumbsup:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Bone Saw: I talked with a few other guys I highly respect around here and they also said they typically just pour the mud directly into the hole and then will take and cut the sonotubes into 12" high sections and "wet set" them into the previously poured mud and then finish filling to the top of the sonotube section.

ALOT easier I do agree, but I thought one of the design principals of the sonotubes with the round and smooth sides was to thwart off any effects of the ground being able to "latch onto" a rough edge and eventually heave it up/tilt it? I asked that same question locally and everybody just said dont worry about it? We re arranged the job site and it appears we'll luck out and get the truck (pending they dont get stuck in the mud with this week stright rain we've had) back in there and with the 15' of chutes be able to pour directly into the holes themselves with no bucket work.

I dont want to get into a pizzing match with guys that do mud everyday-cuz I sure the heck dont-but I want to make sure when I do something it's as right as right can be even if it means a lil extra labor to achieve it.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

sorry if you thought I was trying to have a pizzing match with you Josh, that wasn't my intention at all


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Bone Saw said:


> sorry if you thought I was trying to have a pizzing match with you Josh, that wasn't my intention at all


LOL, no I did'nt take anything you or anybody said wrong -sorry about my post coming off like that, but I was trying to cover my azz when I made the statement about not using the sonotube full length in the ground and giving the concrete a "handle" so to speak for the ground to grab onto and heave the concrete cylinders after some years of being in the dirt.

We've all probably dug enough post hole footings in our time and I think we know that rarely are they ever perfectly smooth all the way down, so if you just poured the concrete into the hole with a 12" sonotube section on top the main portion of the concrete under ground will conform to the non-symetrical shaped hole dug and any little "knicks/notches" on the sides of the hole will fill with mud making a keyway much like that of lathe and plaster. So thinking in my head that after time as the soil packs tighter around these posts eventually they'll try to heave-even though the base is below frost lines will give the ground a place to get leverage on the concrete at mid point or higher??

I'm probably waaay over thinking this based on the rudimentary holes that are typically dug and mud filled in and no problems, just dont want this to come back on me 10 yrs later with the footings getting crooked or heaving. Either way all the tubes are in the ground and mud scheduled to show up tomorrow a.m., It still looks like the truck can fill all the tubes right off the chute but still taking the skidder and wheel barrow just in case...but hopeing they stay loaded up:laughing:


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

IHI said:


> LOL, no I did'nt take anything you or anybody said wrong -sorry about my post coming off like that, but I was trying to cover my azz when I made the statement about not using the sonotube full length in the ground and giving the concrete a "handle" so to speak for the ground to grab onto and heave the concrete cylinders after some years of being in the dirt.
> 
> We've all probably dug enough post hole footings in our time and I think we know that rarely are they ever perfectly smooth all the way down, so if you just poured the concrete into the hole with a 12" sonotube section on top the main portion of the concrete under ground will conform to the non-symetrical shaped hole dug and any little "knicks/notches" on the sides of the hole will fill with mud making a keyway much like that of lathe and plaster. So thinking in my head that after time as the soil packs tighter around these posts eventually they'll try to heave-even though the base is below frost lines will give the ground a place to get leverage on the concrete at mid point or higher??
> 
> I'm probably waaay over thinking this based on the rudimentary holes that are typically dug and mud filled in and no problems, just dont want this to come back on me 10 yrs later with the footings getting crooked or heaving. Either way all the tubes are in the ground and mud scheduled to show up tomorrow a.m., It still looks like the truck can fill all the tubes right off the chute but still taking the skidder and wheel barrow just in case...but hopeing they stay loaded up:laughing:


I read you lima charlie on your reasoning Josh and am one step ahead on it, I usually like to leave a little up to interpretation on posting technical information and trade secrets, since we are all in competition one way or another, But since I like you, I'll elaborate 
I am from the school of thought that a round peg in a round hole that is loose fitting to begin with, with 1/2" of cardboard sheathing that will eventually dissapear as well is, well, a loose fitting peg in a sloppy hole:laughing: another way of looking at it is like this: 2-4-6 tons or whatever of deck on legs with knees 48" up from the foot, this is a ***** in the armor anyway you slice it. when I drill my holes with the skidder("pilot hole") I chase it with the clamshell and taper them from top to bottom, clean out and tamp. so my footings are upsidedown icecream cones cast in place with nowhere to go and nothing to heave, the additional work and crete of doing this is extremely minimal. once the footings are poured to within a few inches of grade and pier extensions are "wet set" finnishing off the pour with shovel is a piece of cake, the crete will not spill out from the bottom and you can plumb and align them by hand without any bracing and they will stay put, I do this on a regular basis with extensions 20-30" with 100% success. this is where already having ledger in place, a beeping water level a knife and a chaulk line come into play(left up to interpretation) take a look at the pufile link in the new projects thread in decking and fencing. Again, hope this helps:thumbsup:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Chris, I understand exactly where your coming from. For years-as mandadated by our "inspectors" our footings are just a hole dug down and then the bottom 8" is the start of the taper which needs to extend 2" beyond the circumference of the post hole itself. Not fun to scratch and dig that out since it's 42" below ground but we get it done:blink: 

The way this desk is being built is with the tubes (ended up after leveling) about 10" above grade and then J bolts set in after pour. Then we'll come in with the post brackets that bolt to the J bolt so the posts will sit on the brackets themselves above the concrete. Techincally it's all sheer weigh, so there should'nt be a problem, especially in this case wince I went overboard with post count since it's in a flood plain I did'nt want a floating branch to hit a post and cause a problem so we spaced them 6'oc to be safe/redundant. 

When you have to install the tubes waay above grade, is there any worry of where the sonotube is wet set and concrete is then poured on top of ground mix being a "cracking/breaking point"? I have visions of trying this myself and then having the top sections crack for some odd reason and the whole thing falling down like domino's LOL!!! Next time I will give your method a try and will probably kick myself later since this has been a nightmare setting up with muddy grade to begin with, rain EVERY FRICKEN DAY since last week and my tubes are starting to get mushy due to that fact:furious:  Woulda been loots easier with your method to fill da hole and set small tube sections on top and do final fill:thumbup:


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

IHI said:


> rain EVERY FRICKEN DAY since last week


big contractor trash bags "pool liners" in holes, filled with h2o, zip tied, bring on the rain, show up day of inspection, small submersible pump with hose, good as the day they were dug:thumbsup:


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

IHI said:


> When you have to install the tubes waay above grade, is there any worry of where the sonotube is wet set and concrete is then poured on top of ground mix being a "cracking/breaking point"? I have visions of trying this myself and then having the top sections crack for some odd reason and the whole thing falling down like domino's LOL!!!


not if you do the wetset and peir while everything is still workable, otherwise I suppose that could be the case, if it makes you feel better throw a couple rebar in the mix. I have conducted my own experiments with this in my back yard, one 20" extension wetset all at once and one wetset done with subgrade crete getting a little stiff then commenced to unleashing fury on them with a sledge hammer, shearing of at grade was never a consideration:thumbsup:


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

did you end up buying the mini ???


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

He does'nt want to sell this one just yet (guy at rental store I've been using it from). Bought another truck to add to the mix plus getting new snow removal junk so for now renting a mini will be the order of the day, I just pass the price along so it's no skin off my back, but man is that thing a handy SOB!!

Dug more holes today at same job site we've been on due to customer change order and brother in law wants to do a deck too, so I buzzed up to his place and he only had 3 holes to do, so he was considering manual labor. Site of holes is near an old sistern used to be. First hole went off without a hitch, 2nd hole got into some really good concrete underground that actually stopped the auger and made the machine lurch sideways, I kept taking little bites with minimal down pressure allowing the auger to scrap into the concrete under ground and was able to eventually pull it up and commense digging. 3rd hole....now that baby had large chunks of concrete and at 3 different depths stopped the machine cold and lurched it sideways. Still only had about 10-13 minutes total even with the problems under ground, and these were 15" holes....I cant imagine how long he'd a been at it with a manual digger :w00t: 

Only thing I do not like is when hitting underground stuff is the auger has no pwr tilting the auger, so when it veers off track there is no way to tilt auger one way or another and get back on track...so you pretty much had to make an oval hole, and fill in then finish off. Other than that it's a machine i've waited my adult life for:laughing: Kinda holding off on large ticket purchases anyways, phone really has'nt been all that busy lately and the jobs we're getting are nothing to write home about as far as profit margins are concerned, lots of single window/door jobs. I've got a big addition and a HUGE garage with attachment to home coming up, other than that just piddly decks and repair type work.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

another handy thing about the mini is this; I get into alot of decks where there is a slider or french door involved, since I work alone, this is no sweat. day of door delivery, I have RO open, flashed, caulk gun at the ready and the forks on the skidder with a ratcheting strap handy and an old skateboard (alva streetfire :laughing: ) up on the deck with no railings. delivery comes, door gets stripped of all its packaging, pick it with skidder (outside facing me), lift up to deck, caulk flashing, wrestle it onto the alva streetfire, maneuver it to ro, rotate door up on corner, kick alva streetfire away, and put it into the hole:laughing: 10min tops:thumbsup: Also I have made the coupling pin for the auger bit to the head out of a 2" ball with an extra long shaft when setting up or pulling off a job, to hell with trying to maneuver the trailer into place with my van, pull up, offload kanga unhitch, pick trailer with skidder and put it right where I want it


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Bone Saw said:


> another handy thing about the mini is this; I get into alot of decks where there is a slider or french door involved, since I work alone, this is no sweat. day of door delivery, I have RO open, flashed, caulk gun at the ready and the forks on the skidder with a ratcheting strap handy and an old skateboard (alva streetfire :laughing: ) up on the deck with no railings. delivery comes, door gets stripped of all its packaging, pick it with skidder (outside facing me), lift up to deck, caulk flashing, wrestle it onto the alva streetfire, maneuver it to ro, rotate door up on corner, kick alva streetfire away, and put it into the hole:laughing: 10min tops:thumbsup: Also I have made the coupling pin for the auger bit to the head out of a 2" ball with an extra long shaft when setting up or pulling off a job, to hell with trying to maneuver the trailer into place with my van, pull up, offload kanga unhitch, pick trailer with skidder and put it right where I want it


:thumbup: :thumbup: 

And that's probably another good reason I dont have one yet, I'd be a tinker freak conjuring up all sorts of things to make life easier. Helll, I got slack today because I'm bringing a skidder to the job sight tomorrow just in case we need to move mud around, they thought for no more than we had a wheel barrow would suffice...I'm ALL about toys that make things easier, even though they cost money to rent/operate, etc...the savings on your body is well worth it to me.


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