# Trim Carpenter Wants More Money....



## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Okay, so I'll try to abbreviate and make it quick. If you need more information, let me know.

I hired a contractor to install new trim around and entry door. This is a brick front house with fluted columns and mantle top around the door. After I hung the door, I contracted with him to install the trim while I finished on the inside of the home. 

We met the day before at the property to go over the scope and see the on-site conditions. I showed him pictures of the trim package I wanted to copy and build from. I started laying out the trim because he seemed a little confused and he asked that I be there first thing the next day to help him lay everything out (show him how to stack the casings correctly). 

Anyways, we agreed on a price and I was told it would be finished within one day. The following day, we worked together for the first few hours to help him get started and on the right track. Fast forward to 6PM at night, and he got as far as the picture I attached. So, about 8 hours worth of work. The second pictures shows us removing what he did to repair it. 

At the end of the day he said he could get the rest of the casing up in about an hour with no problems. I told him that the top was crooked (not lining up with the mortar joints in the brick...more noticeable in person) and needed to be fixed before he got any further. He got frustrated and said he'd have to begin in the morning. I told him that was fine because we still had two more days until the home would be painted. 

Then he dropped the bomb. He told me he made a mistake in his estimate and he would need an additional $100 to compete the project. I told him no, but I would pay him the agreed upon amount when he completed. So he flies off the handle. He told me he'd rather walk off the project and not get paid then to finish for what he quoted. I was called everything from crooked to a racist in this conversation. 

Anyways, he left. I called him the following day to let him know that I would like to compensate him for what he did on the project. I had someone else come look at the job and we determined he was about 20% complete. This didn't include the re-work that needed to be done either. This contractor worked for about 9 hours to complete the job in one day. He was paid in full based on his quoted price. 

After all was said and done, there was $25 left on the budget (difference between the original contractors quote and what it cost me to complete). I threw in an additional $30 to bet at an even $55. I did that because I thought he was about 20% complete and 20% of the original quote is $55. 

He does not agree with that cost and will not meet or provide an address to send a money order. He, in stead, threatened me stating you will be sorry after I do what I'm gonna do. He is being very vague and I think he now wants all of the money he had originally quoted.

I probably should have just paid him his money to get him out of there and learn my lesson. I had doubts on his abilities as of the first day. He seems to be a good contractor...just works very very slow. He would get flustered easily and get confused when I'd tell him too much at once...

The racist comments really bothered me on a personal level. So did the comments about being crooked. I try very hard to be fair and not be the type of GC that constantly adds to the scope and tries to take all he can without ever giving. 

The first problem he had was that at the end of day when all this started, he said I am making him build a trim package that was different than the pictures I showed him when he quoted. This is most certainly not true. The only pictures on my iPad of door trim was the one we built so I know I couldn't have showed him the wrong pictures on accident. Playing Devil's advocate, I asked him why he didn't bring this up first thing in the morning before we worked. Our first two hours were spent laying it out and answering his questions on how to build it. The second contractor asked for the pictures and he was able to do everything himself with very little guidance. 

I tried to tell him whether it was this door or another, he still wouldn't have finished on time. He only got the base up in 8 hours and the two strips of howe casing he installed were crooked and needed to be re-done. After that he told me that I was the one who was crooked. I decided not to break his jaw and I walked away so he could finish cleaning up and leave the homeowners property. I lost a chisel, scraper, and a few drill bits. I don't think he did that on purpose but who knows. 

What do? What does the forum suggest? 

So much for being abbreviated.....


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## WilsonRMDL (Sep 4, 2007)

That top piece is crooked to the mortar joints, but was it level? I've seen mortar joints run out a little, but that would be quite a bit.

Does he seem like the type of guy that would mess up the job or just a big talker?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

What was the price of the total job? These seem like some pretty small dollar amounts being thrown around.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

WilsonRMDL said:


> That top piece is crooked to the mortar joints, but was it level? I've seen mortar joints run out a little, but that would be quite a bit.
> 
> Does he seem like the type of guy that would mess up the job or just a big talker?


Hmm...I'm not sure if it is level. Either way, he was asked to follow the mortar joints for aesthetics. He even snapped a line that he would build to that I approved. He missed his snap line. 

I have no idea what he is capable of. He sent two emails threatening me but being very vague about what he was going to do. I replied back to one last night stating that I was a little unnerved about his emails and that I was going to have to call the police. I couldn't risk harm to the property, my family, or myself. I took his threat very seriously. He responded and told me he meant no harm...so I guess I'm okay. I have no clue what he plans to do.


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

What's the contract call for in terms of scope, payment schedule, estimated time of completion, etc?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> What was the price of the total job? These seem like some pretty small dollar amounts being thrown around.


The total job was supposed to be $275 and that is labor only. I supplied the screws, nails, staples, caulk, and trim. It was a true labor only. 

Yes, these are pretty small dollar amounts. My pride won't let me be railroaded by people like him. Unless you guys can help me see my faults....sometimes others are better than me at that....:whistling


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

GRB said:


> What's the contract call for in terms of scope, payment schedule, estimated time of completion, etc?


No contract. Just verbal agreement. I typically don't write contracts for work under $500. People get pissed when I ask them to sign one. I know, lesson learned for sure. 

I'm not even docking him for my additional time, pushing off the painters to complete his job, and having to rework his mess. Hell, I even offered to caulk the damn thing myself to help be sure he'd be done in one day.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

For $275, you shoulda just paid him & been done with it & never called him again. Not enough money to get overly worked up about IMO. Live & learn.


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

rdr8887 said:


> No contract. Just verbal agreement. I typically don't write contracts for work under $500. People get pissed when I ask them to sign one.


That would be a red flag to me. If they're that resistant to putting an agreement in writing, I'd wonder why. 

We still have a few subs do an occasional small job without a contract, but only after they've established they're trustworthy & we have a long positive history with them. They probably say the same about us, now that I think of it. Clear, concise contracts benefit both sides. :thumbsup:


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

pinwheel said:


> For $275, you shoulda just paid him & been done with it & never called him again. Not enough money to get overly worked up about IMO. Live & learn.


Maybe so. But times are tough and I have a family to feed as well. Also, I've pretty much made it a point my whole life to never let people get one over on me. If he takes me to court, he will lose and I will counter sue for additional money. He can take what I'm offering and walk away (after signing a lien waiver) or end up paying me for the project. 

Unless you guys can find fault. Don't be afraid to tell me I'm being an


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

GRB said:


> That would be a red flag to me. If they're that resistant to putting an agreement in writing, I'd wonder why.
> 
> We still have a few subs do an occasional small job without a contract, but only after they've established they're trustworthy & we have a long positive history with them. They probably say the same about us, now that I think of it. Clear, concise contracts benefit both sides. :thumbsup:


Maybe I should create a basic contract for work like this. Something one page and simple...but concise. I think I will.

Also, this project was a little different where the homeowner paid me as a construction manager. The homeowner payed all contractors directly and paid me a fee to hire, manage, schedule, and check quality of work.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

I make my living doing jobs that are mostly under $500. I would say this problem stems from a poor relationship. It's not necessarily your fault, what I'm saying is things happen fast on small items so its important to have built a relationship so you know going into this it's taken care of.

In the future look for a guy who always does this stuff and work with him continually. That way you know it will be done stress free.

At least it's a small job, you'll live through this.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> I make my living doing jobs that are mostly under $500. I would say this problem stems from a poor relationship. It's not necessarily your fault, what I'm saying is things happen fast on small items so its important to have built a relationship so you know going into this it's taken care of.
> 
> In the future look for a guy who always does this stuff and work with him continually. That way you know it will be done stress free.
> 
> At least it's a small job, you'll live through this.


This is 100% true.* I normally do this type of work myself.* I am an experienced trim carpenter and cabinet builder.* However, since things are picking up, I need someone else to do that work for me.* So, I decided to hire out on this project to find someone that I could work with moving forward.* 

It didn't turn out like I thought it would.* The second contractor will be getting more work from me in the future.* 

However, I still need to decide whether to just pay this guy off or stand my ground.* I'm leaning towards standing my ground as I have everything documented along with his email threats.* My guess is that he has done this stuff before.* Probably increases his prices and most homeowners don't know better and pay him.* People like him need to be taught a lesson.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Does anyone have experience with this type of installation? Does my estimate of 20% complete seem fair? Does 8 hours seem like too much time for what he did?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

You don't get paid for a job you didn't complete. Pay him nothing.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> You don't get paid for a job you didn't complete. Pay him nothing.


That's not entirely true. You have to pay a man for the work that was completed. However, by the time I add in my time and hassle for dealing with the project it will eat up all his money plus end up owing me. He would not be wise to take this to court.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I thought the op sounded familiar. :laughing:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/lbg/3042384173.html

-----------
_
You must have the following tools:

Masonry cutter
Mitre box that makes accurate cuts
Table saw
Hammer drill
Masonry drill bit
Skil saw

I need you to trim out a front door with casing. This is detailed trim work with fluted columns and a mantle top. The previous carpenter wasnt able to complete the project. There are a few mistakes you will have to correct. It can be finished within on day. Less than a day if you are very experienced.

Give me a contact number for you.

Location: Dallas, GA
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay 

PostingID: 3042384173
_


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> That's not entirely true. You have to pay a man for the work that was completed. However, by the time I add in my time and hassle for dealing with the project it will eat up all his money plus end up owing me. He would not be wise to take this to court.


Not really, if you consider the total costs and damages there's no way $275 pays for it. No way. 

If you look at the big picture this disruption had a cost to it and the fact you recovered the job because YOU found a solution is irrelevant.

The price of poker in construction is steep when things go wrong. It has a cost to it. Some don't see it, others do.

Truth is... he probably owes you money.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Send him a bill and see what happens. I wouldn't pay him a dime.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

J F said:


> I thought the op sounded familiar. :laughing:
> 
> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/lbg/3042384173.html
> 
> ...


Ha. I've been found. I was in a pinch and had two days to finish. I used Craigslist. Every once in a while there are decent jobs that actually pay on Craigslist...


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

To the op:

Are you finding your carpenters from CL? You way want to look in the this section and see if you can find someone who is advertising for work, and has pics/website to try and get some idea of their skill set:

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sks/ (and do a search for carpentry/carpenter(s) in the "title only".

I would think it would work out better than your ad (if this_ is_ your ad), which will have you sifting through much more "junk". 

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/lbg/3042384173.html


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

rdr8887 said:


> Ha. I've been found. I was in a pinch and had two days to finish. I used Craigslist. Every once in a while there are decent jobs that actually pay on Craigslist...


:laughing: That's why I was laughing, it's a very small cyber-world. For anyone needing a good laugh, CL "gig" ads provide a lot of entertainment.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> Send him a bill and see what happens. I wouldn't pay him a dime.


I probably should do that. I can also throw in the 4 hours I spent helping him with the progress that far...

Truth is, I think the $55 dollar balance was more than fair but he took it at an insult. I debated for 24 hours about whether the offer was a slap in the face or if I should just let it die. After I receive harassing emails from him, I laid out my offer.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Also, I used to post an ad every day in the skilled trade section, but haven't much lately due to elbow/shoulder issues...not to mention the crazy calls, which are quite funny from time to time. :laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Lay it out for him, and let him know you'll be contacting the police if any further "harassing" communications take place.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

J F said:


> I thought the op sounded familiar. :laughing:
> 
> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/lbg/3042384173.html


JF the job would have been yours if you only had a miterbox that makes accurate cuts. :laughing:


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

J F said:


> :laughing: That's why I was laughing, it's a very small cyber-world. For anyone needing a good laugh, CL "gig" ads provide a lot of entertainment.


This was my favorite response. Do you think this guy get a lot of work?

Send some photos of your existing door, the replacement,*and I'll let you know if I'm interested. I can meet all of your requirements. Two things; don't try to haggle once I quote my price, and do not hang over my shoulder while I*replace your door. I'm busy but we'll get you done ASAP. I'm not big on giving out a lot of*info off a first contact on CL. Thanks for your consideration.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> JF the job would have been yours if you only had a miterbox that makes accurate cuts. :laughing:


Yeah, the damn kapex sucks.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

rdr8887 said:


> This was my favorite response. Do you think this guy get a lot of work?
> 
> Send some photos of your existing door, the replacement,*and I'll let you know if I'm interested. I can meet all of your requirements. Two things; don't try to haggle once I quote my price, and do not hang over my shoulder while I*replace your door. I'm busy but we'll get you done ASAP. I'm not big on giving out a lot of*info off a first contact on CL. Thanks for your consideration.


I like it. :thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

J F said:


> :laughing: That's why I was laughing, it's a very small cyber-world. For anyone needing a good laugh, CL "gig" ads provide a lot of entertainment.


Now we know where you get all your work. :whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Of course, I wrote it.









It really_ is _a small world, huh?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

J F said:


> To the op:
> 
> Are you finding your carpenters from CL? You way want to look in the this section and see if you can find someone who is advertising for work, and has pics/website to try and get some idea of their skill set:
> 
> ...


I did do that. However no one listed there was available within my schedule. I placed the ad at the same time. I didn't have time to mess around. I figured I'd give it two hours while I got my tools ready to do the project myself. 

There are good skilled workers on craigslist if you look right. However, there are also many hacks. 

This guy had a website and showed me several pictures of doors that were similar. Sometimes, you still lose.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> Now we know where you get all your work. :whistling


I've never gotten any work off CL , I think my ads always skewed "too expensive" for the CL market.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

J F said:


> I've never gotten any work off CL , I think my ads always skewed "too expensive" for the CL market.


Hence why were screwing around on internet forums at 1 in the afternoon....:laughing:


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> JF the job would have been yours if you only had a miterbox that makes accurate cuts. :laughing:


Lol. That's half the reason I didn't do it myself. I dropped the damn thing and 45 degrees is no longer 45. I'm too lazy to fix or recalibrate it. Its just a weight to hold down my table saw now....

My dewalt compound motor decide to **** out after 18 months....


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm taking a "Leo" break and having a coke zero...all day. :whistling


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> Hence why were screwing around on internet forums at 1 in the afternoon....:laughing:


What the hell are _you_ doing? :whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

J F said:


> What the hell are _you_ doing? :whistling


Lunch break, fighting whether to go out and work or take my bike for a tour...guess which one I'm leaning towards.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

A nap?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

J F said:


> What the hell are _you_ doing? :whistling


Acting like I know what I'm doing like always. Doing a pretty damn good job if I must say myself. 

Now back to joining Service Magic....


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I think this little door trim out would of fell in the "self perform" bracket for me.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> Yes you did....lol


Go back and read the Pay When Paid thread, you'll see I advised those kind of subs would be the dregs.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

overanalyze said:


> I don't want to sound petty, but if the homeowner is paying this guy direct, you don't have any leg to stand on. Just because the homeowner hired you to manage things, if you aren't writing the checks out of your company account, you didn't hire him, the customer did. On top of it all you don't have any contracts in place to manage the project which you were hired to do. You just f-ed your client...


This particular client is a close friend. I have no worries and they are not screwed. I'm not sure why you wouldn't think I don't have a leg to stand on. I did hire him. Why do you think the client is :censored? The project is done.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Go back and read the Pay When Paid thread, you'll see I advised those kind of subs would be the dregs.


Go back and read this thread and you will see this guy didn't have a contract. Nor was it ever discussed. He would have been paid on completion.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Jaws said:


> I think this little door trim out would of fell in the "self perform" bracket for me.


It normally would have. However, I did the project for a friend for very little to pay back a favor. The total cost of the job was over 10k.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Sounds like I'm being petty. However, I don't like being bent over. But, someone did have a good point about an axe going through the door. Crazy and broke is a dangerous combination. 

This is going to happen again. The next time could be much larger numbers. Now if it was a grand, maybe two, would you still say pay him? Where is that threshold to where you fight for what is right?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 275 bucks for 2 days work?
> 
> That guy was a crack head.
> 
> My 6 year old would have more done, and better.


It was only supposed to be one day....he said a half day but that would have been almost impossible to pull off.


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## otislilly (May 30, 2012)

rdr8887 said:


> This particular client is a close friend. I have no worries and they are not screwed. I'm not sure why you wouldn't think I don't have a leg to stand on. I did hire him. Why do you think the client is :censored? The project is done.


did you ever get that lien waiver signed?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

otislilly said:


> did you ever get that lien waiver signed?


No, I asked him to give me a call to discuss and work it out. I haven't heard back from him. I believe he wants full payment for a job never competed. I don't care how petty that makes me seem, he isn't getting full payment. 

However, I'd like to work it out and walk away.


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## otislilly (May 30, 2012)

rdr8887 said:


> No, I asked him to give me a call to discuss and work it out. I haven't heard back from him. I believe he wants full payment for a job never competed. I don't care how petty that makes me seem, he isn't getting full payment.
> 
> However, I'd like to work it out and walk away.


what are you going to do if he puts a lein on your friends house?


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

otislilly said:


> what are you going to do if he puts a lein on your friends house?


Then we will be taking it to court and winning. It's not really a big deal. He didn't finish and is therefore not entitled to full payment. Unless you know something I don't.

Had this been a normal client, he would have been paid to end it. I had a little more leeway with hiring new subcontractors to test them out on this project. We discussed this as a possibility before the project started. As long as he doesn't owe, he doesn't care. He said he'd be more than happy to go to court over this. He didn't appreciate the racist slave driver comments either. 

The project is complete at this time....


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Also, he can't lien without a judgement. He can file a notice of intent to lien, but has to win a court judgement for the lien to take affect.


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## otislilly (May 30, 2012)

thats my point, If the homeowners dont show up for court he will win, if you dont show up as witness, he will win. If everyone shows up, it is a gamble based on he says, he says. You and homeowner has done lost a days work. For $275. You should have known in 10 minutes, from the look on his face, he didnt have a clue. 

hopefully he wont, Good luck.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

otislilly said:


> thats my point, If the homeowners dont show up for court he will win, if you dont show up as witness, he will win. If everyone shows up, it is a gamble based on he says, he says. You and homeowner has done lost a days work. For $275. You should have known in 10 minutes, from the look on his face, he didnt have a clue.
> 
> hopefully he wont, Good luck.


I'm meeting him this afternoon to hopefully work it out. I'm willing to give him about 150 or so to make this go away. Any more than that, we go to court. 

And the homeowner is retired. He told me it would be a fun thing to do if he has to go to court. He's kind of egging me on to see what he does. He's crazy. Lol.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I've worked around guys like this. Get part the way into something they are doing, throw a fit, demand more money, threaten to walk, make all kinds of accusations, start talking about fires, stuff disappears, work is done wrong, they try to run off your other subs, and on and on. Boot them and don't pay. You have emails, report it to the police so there is a record if anything happens. 

Never, never, ever give this type of an a-hole a break, they don't deserve it and they're counting on getting it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> Go back and read this thread and you will see this guy didn't have a contract. Nor was it ever discussed. He would have been paid on completion.


I was ****ing with you 

:jester:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> It normally would have. However, I did the project for a friend for very little to pay back a favor. The total cost of the job was over 10k.



Was actually not trying to be a prick on this one :laughing: , I just had never subbed anything that small. Different models I guess, I have an in house crew, so it has not ever come up, even if it did I guess I'd put my bags on. I would be scared my cornice sub would laugh at me, especially since I rarely sub cornice:laughing:


If trying to keep the cost down, why sub it? I guess for 250 I'd say have at it too, although you might end up getting what you pay for :blink:

Just chalk it up to experience, imo.

If that guy pulled that BS on me, I'd kick his ass off my job and tell him to **** off. I'd probably pay him the 250$ and chalk it up as a screw up on my part for not being a good judge of character. As far as the threats, I'd tell him to keep his tone respectful, and handle the situation like a professional. If he continued to trip, Idk, I'm a big man, hasn't come up in a long time.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 275 bucks for 2 days work?
> 
> That guy was a crack head.
> 
> My 6 year old would have more done, and better.


Your 6 year old would of charged more


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

It cost me $275 to read this thread.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Jaws said:


> I was ****ing with you
> 
> :jester:


Lol
I thought so at first....then I hopped on the defensive. My bad.


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## bretth0214 (Sep 20, 2009)

I don't think I would let 275 dollars be the cause of this much trouble. I keep reading how you don't want to be bent over, but it seems to me that you allowed yourself to be bent over. 1st you hired a sub off craigslist, then you only offered to pay him 275 which IMHO isn't nearly enough for a business owner to do that job. 

You obviously were offering side job money and expecting some master craftsman to show up. For 275 on a 10k job just pay the man. You have to realize it was just as much your fault that this happened, and next time hire a REAL sub contractor not some dude off of craigslist.

I also have to agree with others that a job that small really isn't worth subbing. If you figure the time you spent finding a sub, meeting with him, explaining the project 10 times and then laying it out for him...Hell another 2 hours and you would have been done with the job.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

bretth0214 said:


> I don't think I would let 275 dollars be the cause of this much trouble. I keep reading how you don't want to be bent over, but it seems to me that you allowed yourself to be bent over. 1st you hired a sub off craigslist, then you only offered to pay him 275 which IMHO isn't nearly enough for a business owner to do that job.
> 
> You obviously were offering side job money and expecting some master craftsman to show up. For 275 on a 10k job just pay the man. You have to realize it was just as much your fault that this happened, and next time hire a REAL sub contractor not some dude off of craigslist.
> 
> I also have to agree with others that a job that small really isn't worth subbing. If you figure the time you spent finding a sub, meeting with him, explaining the project 10 times and then laying it out for him...Hell another 2 hours and you would have been done with the job.


I never said I only offered anything. That was the quote. I have no idea what his overhead is like and what his cost for a given project should be. It was a Saturday. Maybe it was a side job for him for a little extra cash. Not my business. 

So what is a "real" subcontractor? One with a business license, insurance, website, pictures...? He had all that. I'd say he was real. Probably was good a few years back. I thought he was a good guy and thought wrong. 

I didn't have time to do the job myself. Plus I want to build a wider base of subs. Perfect job to do it on. I have my reasons...I'm sure you understand. 

But you are right, I could have just done it myself and been done. Hindsight is always 20/20.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

Also, it's not like it is really much trouble yet. 

He didn't finish asked for money. I said no. He left. I found someone else. Completed the job. Got two emails from him threatening. Was amused and wanted to see what you all would do. 

Half say pay and don't deal with it. Half say stiff him. Had the money been a higher amount, I think everyone would say "f him" and go to court. 

I don't like the principal of it. People get rich off things like this everyday. Kind of like falling off the step ladder on purpose. He is trying to use court threats to get me to pay him in full to walk away and not have to deal with it.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

There are several people on CT that are in Georgia. Maybe you should try using them next time. At the very least I would think the quality of work would be much better than what you got. Of course the price may be just a little bit higher.:laughing:


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> There are several people on CT that are in Georgia. Maybe you should try using them next time. At the very least I would think the quality of work would be much better than what you got. Of course the price may be just a little bit higher.:laughing:


You know, that thought didn't cross my mind. It might not of worked on this job because of timeline...but I should have done that in the first place. I should get a list of people here that work in my area to talk with. 

Thanks.


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

if it was me i would pay him and forget about it , its just not worth the effort


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

darr1 said:


> if it was me i would pay him and forget about it , its just not worth the effort


By letting him get away with extortion you are only feeding the fire. I think you should have gotten in his face with a 2x4 and said try me! So loud that I could hear you.


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> By letting him get away with extortion you are only feeding the fire. I think you should have gotten in his face with a 2x4 and said try me! So loud that I could hear you.


well if i employed him and saw how brutal he was and still let him carry on well i would blame myself pay his money say goodbye , and put it down to experience


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

darr1 said:


> well if i employed him and saw how brutal he was and still let him carry on well i would blame myself pay his money say goodbye , and put it down to experience


He did fine until the late hours. A little slow, but I work slow. Then he got crooked. I'm sorry, but no one has a crystal ball to know who will work out. The best carpenter I've ever met would make me feel uncomfortable around my wife and couldn't read. If I met him today, I probably wouldn't give him a chance. Sometimes, you never know. 

So would you pitch the same to a homeowner that had a GC screw up their basement remodel?


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## darr1 (May 25, 2010)

rdr8887 said:


> He did fine until the late hours. A little slow, but I work slow. Then he got crooked. I'm sorry, but no one has a crystal ball to know who will work out. The best carpenter I've ever met would make me feel uncomfortable around my wife and couldn't read. If I met him today, I probably wouldn't give him a chance. Sometimes, you never know.
> 
> So would you pitch the same to a homeowner that had a GC screw up their basement remodel?


you have learned a cheap lesson here , you know in future that you need a good carpenter that you can trust , and you have found one because of the messing on this job . so as i said lesson learned pay up say thanks and move on with life


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

rdr8887 said:


> So would you pitch the same to a homeowner that had a GC screw up their basement remodel?


i think he might if the bill was only $275. add a zero at the end and no one's going to suggest that


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

for pete's sake...there are a lot of responses I didn't read through!

the mortar joint problem looks to really be a reveal issue-the reveal on the right side looks greater than the left. If it were ONLY an issue of the top of the wood being cocky, that could have been covered with subsequent mouldings (were there more). Either way, he should have been given an opportunity to make the work right and if not then you've got to make it right and it would seem the balance go to the original guy.

good luck  I hate tension at the job site.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

72chevy4x4 said:


> for pete's sake...there are a lot of responses I didn't read through!
> 
> the mortar joint problem looks to really be a reveal issue-the reveal on the right side looks greater than the left. If it were ONLY an issue of the top of the wood being cocky, that could have been covered with subsequent mouldings (were there more). Either way, he should have been given an opportunity to make the work right and if not then you've got to make it right and it would seem the balance go to the original guy.
> 
> good luck  I hate tension at the job site.


I'll post a picture of the finished product. Yes, there were definitely more moldings. He didn't want to fix anything. I thought about fixing it with the moulding. However, the first piece of casing at the bottom would have had a 1" gap on the left and a 2.5" gap on the bottom. The right thing to do was just cut, adjust, and rehang.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I didn't read all the threads here, but guys, you need to qualify the people you hire better.

I always ask specific questions that will seperate the men from the boys. You should be able to tell fairly quickly if the guy knows his stuff or not.


ps. I'd pay the guy for a days work and forget about it.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

katoman said:


> I didn't read all the threads here, but guys, you need to qualify the people you hire better.
> 
> I always ask specific questions that will seperate the men from the boys. You should be able to tell fairly quickly if the guy knows his stuff or not.
> 
> ...


I try to do that as best I can. Sometimes to the point where contractors get irritated and think I am calling them an idiot. I just try to ask enough questions about process to know if they know more than I do. This was one of those times I got fooled. He'd probably do fine trimming out a home. This was just too much. 

And I'm glad to hear someone else asks questions like I do. I wasn't sure if I was being to hard in qualifying guys.


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## asbestos (Mar 22, 2006)

I thought that when he asked if you were going to be around to show him what's what I would have been suspicious of his skills. I take on all types of jobs and sometimes things take me longer then they should. (ok 90% of the time they do)I usually sort of split the difference, charging the customer for a bit more then it should have taken and a bit less then it did. But I never (almost) give a fixed price unless I know for sure I can get it done for way less then that. and for $275 there is no way I would have done that door unless, it was a prefab one piece unit I could bolt into place.


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## rdr8887 (Jan 28, 2012)

asbestos said:


> I thought that when he asked if you were going to be around to show him what's what I would have been suspicious of his skills. I take on all types of jobs and sometimes things take me longer then they should. (ok 90% of the time they do)I usually sort of split the difference, charging the customer for a bit more then it should have taken and a bit less then it did. But I never (almost) give a fixed price unless I know for sure I can get it done for way less then that. and for $275 there is no way I would have done that door unless, it was a prefab one piece unit I could bolt into place.


I actually had budgeted 350 for the work. I figured 350 for 6 hours worth of work was pretty fair actually. I guess I was a good bit off.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

rdr8887 said:


> And I'm glad to hear someone else asks questions like I do. I wasn't sure if I was being to hard in qualifying guys.


When it comes to the work I'm a real hardass. I know, sometimes one gets by you.


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

rdr8887 said:


> I hired a contractor to install new trim around and entry door. This is a brick front house with fluted columns and mantle top around the door. After I hung the door, I contracted with him to install the trim while I finished on the inside of the home.
> 
> *We met the day before at the property to go over the scope and see the on-site conditions. I showed him pictures of the trim package I wanted to copy and build from. I started laying out the trim because he seemed a little confused and he asked that I be there first thing the next day to help him lay everything out (show him how to stack the casings correctly).
> *


You should have sent him packing then....Nothing complicated about it.

As far as where to draw the line in money terms? Depends on how much aggravation I think I'm going to see from it down the road. For $275, the problem is going away, I don't have to take half a day off to see the district justice, another hour to talk to the lawyer or even reread the contract again. $1,000, I can do all of the above


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## jstanton (Mar 25, 2012)

I'd prob give a hundo and tell him thanks for trying, I will fix'er up.

I don't think the money's that bad $35 hr and I'm sure he was hoping to get a new contact for work. I bill a lot higher than that but just a small job on Saturday for a new contractor maybe worth it.

I also have a hard time finding decent help, I guess a lot of other guys better luck. I have 2 guys so I don't sub any of the little stuff though.


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