# What does "Price Per Square Foot" really mean?



## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

I've commented about this in other threads but I think it deserves it's own thread: when we say "price per square foot" does that mean the square footage of the floor footprint, or does that mean the _surface area of all the walls and the ceilings_? If we're simply talking about bidding a job out at $1.50 or $2.00 per square foot of _floor space_ I don't know HOW anyone could survive in this business. Surely we're all talking about the complete surface area, right?

I've been researching this a lot lately and it seems the national average for surface area is about $2.00/square foot - that's including doors and trim. Am I right?


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## DeanV (Feb 20, 2006)

I hate to say it, but in new construction, unless otherwise specified, square footage always refers to floor square footage.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

No! Say it ain't so!


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

I know when we price drywall by the SF, it's by the finished surface areas of the walls and ceilings. Same thing for Roofing and Siding = finished areas of those surfaces.

Can't comment for Painting...


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

Around here it means floor space not surface space. Which doesnt make any sense. If the house is cutup alot, you will lose big time. Painters around here are not smart enough to realize that (4) 10x10 rooms is more to paint then (1) 20x20 room even though they are both 400 sq ft. There is twice the surface area in the 10x10 rooms. I honestly price by feel not sq ft. I walk in and say it will take so and so hours at $25-$30 an hour. I dont get caught up with trusting a sq ft calculation for every job as they are all different


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Capital City - I like to do my bids that way too. However, I just bid seven new houses that haven't even broken ground yet so I had to go off the blueprints. That meant taking my scale rule and methodically figuring out the total surface area. I reckon that's the way it has to be done quite often in this business.

I just said this on another thread and I'll say it again here: I can't believe most painters would bid using floor square footage! WTF! The footprint of a house only equals the ceilings you have to paint - you're not factoring the WALLS in if you do it that way. How can you bid any job at $2.00 a square foot using only the floor plan and make money? What if there are 12' ceilings? What if there are french doors, crown molding and chair rail in every room? What if they want a different four-color scheme in each room? I just can't believe that's the way most painters estimate new construction, but that seems to be what most posters are telling me on these threads so far. Somebody say it ain't so!


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

There are guys that have formulas for adding on to the base sq ft price, high ceilings, crowns, different styles of doors etc.. etc.. on so on... If you have a print and know your production rates then you should be able to figure it out w/o using the sq ft number. Around here I wouldn't touch a house for less then 4$ a sq and thats why I don't do much new construction.

Most of the basement finishes I do are around that number also mostly 8 ft ceilings, standard base and doors etc, but I always look at the print prior to figuring it out.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks for the input. Off the subject, but just wondering why everyone hates new construction? Are repaints/restorations that much more profitable and why? In my experience, repaints can be way more of a pain than new construction in many ways.


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## DeanV (Feb 20, 2006)

The low sq. ft. prices are just starting points for basic, lower quality paint jobs. Anything besides the most basic paint job would result in the price being increased. More colors, more trim, finishing windows, 10' ceilings, crown, good paint, etc.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

It boils down to preference but I believe there's more quality involved when doing repaints, we are more services then just painting, like color consults, faux's, color matching services, to name a few.

Most guys can spray and go new construction too me no satisfaction there. When we do basements from scratch we do the new construction part but combine it with all the other services we offer to then.


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## DeanV (Feb 20, 2006)

I think there are different kinds of new construction. The higher end new construction requires skill also. Working with spray stains on maple to get even tones, faux can come into play, color consults, etc. Paying attention to detail on the prepwork for trim in high end new construction also requires skill, more so than basic new construction.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

I agree Dean, when it comes to custom high end home, then yes more comes into play, I wouldn't consider that new construction


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

kenscar said:


> Thanks for the input. Off the subject, but just wondering why everyone hates new construction? Are repaints/restorations that much more profitable and why? In my experience, repaints can be way more of a pain than new construction in many ways.


I think that people hate new construction because there is NO money in it whatsoever. Around here builders only care about the bottom line period. You have to be the cheapest and he doesnt care about quality. Too many spec homes out there. You have to have a good reputation to do repaints. Have an ad in the book, been around for a while. A group of illegals can walk up to a builder and say $1.00 sq ft, but they cant walk up to a home owner and get a job. Repaints do have the things people dont want to do, speak to customers, scrape, figure out the problems of the last paint job, but all that stuff is what makes it more profitable.


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

capital city said:


> I think that people hate new construction because there is NO money in it whatsoever....


That is why we got out of the field about 15 years ago. The only new residential construction we do now, is our own. We do new commercial and industrial. However, any residential subcontract work we do now, is in remodeling or repairs.

In our experience locally, there's just been no money in it - to do sub-work for GC/Developers. 

The field is too competative, and the average decent contractor can't compete with the low-ball-losers that go after the work.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Man, that sucks. I think I'm working in a better market than you guys. Good, even decent painters seem hard to come by up here. If you simply be there when you say you are and do the job you say you'll do you're a superstar. I just bid three interiors at $1.75/square foot of _surface area_ and won them. That's for a three-color scheme - trim/walls/ceilings - one coat of primer, two coats of paint. Even then, I went low to get the jobs and build a rep with the GC's. Next jobs it will most likely go up to $2.00/square foot surface area once they know I'm worth it.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Kenscar, was the trim included in the $1.75 per wall/ceiling sqft price? Mat's furnished by you?


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## DeanV (Feb 20, 2006)

For custom homes will custom finished built-ins, crown, a dozen colors, etc the price changes to $7-10 per square foot of floor space. Of course, this is not really arrived at by floor space but rather adding price for crown, builtins, etc to a base price and then for comparison sake, looking at it in terms of square footage to comparison sake.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Bidding by square foot may work for some people, but I don't see how. Unit pricing is better. When I bid, I bid square foot for floors plus the cost of the finish material. Walls are so much a SF for sheetrock, plus so much for prime and paint. Trim is so much a LF plus more, or less if finished. Add cost per door, window and on and on. A 100K job from me would have about 12 pages of details with a price for everything including hardware such as handsets, doorstops ect. I don't breakdown the prices for the customer, but I know guys that do. I pretty much always make a profit and don't do anything that isn't on the signed work scope. When asked for a square foot price, I won't give one, although I will ballpark the job. I don't expect my subs to lowball, I expect them to make money and they do. Were not the cheapest, but we take care of business and the customer.


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## polar8989 (Mar 29, 2008)

Depends on how thick you lay it on!


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Bowman - yeah, that price includes materials, trim etc. But we're talking surface area here, not floor square footage.


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

capital city said:


> Around here it means floor space not surface space. Which doesnt make any sense. If the house is cutup alot, you will lose big time. Painters around here are not smart enough to realize that (4) 10x10 rooms is more to paint then (1) 20x20 room even though they are both 400 sq ft. There is twice the surface area in the 10x10 rooms. I honestly price by feel not sq ft. I walk in and say it will take so and so hours at $25-$30 an hour. I dont get caught up with trusting a sq ft calculation for every job as they are all different


 
You are just kidding about $25-30 dollars an hour, thats not really your rate.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Why? Is that low or high? I usually aim for $35/hour.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

kenscar said:


> Man, that sucks. I think I'm working in a better market than you guys. Good, even decent painters seem hard to come by up here. If you simply be there when you say you are and do the job you say you'll do you're a superstar. I just bid three interiors at $1.75/square foot of _surface area_ and won them. That's for a three-color scheme - trim/walls/ceilings - one coat of primer, two coats of paint. Even then, I went low to get the jobs and build a rep with the GC's. Next jobs it will most likely go up to $2.00/square foot surface area once they know I'm worth it.



Ok if you figured it wall surface then divide the total by the sq footage what do you get? If you had plans for more then one house and were able to find out the price for the first one it should of been easier to figure the rest of them out.

You should no your production rates and to know how many man hours it will take to do a specific house or sq footage.


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

If you get your sq ft price from your production rates than , should be fine.

So many painters even in repaints, let there prices be decided by someone else. 

Many painters man day the job, which is fine unless your off by a few man days.....

I learned from a man who was in the field, then sat at a desk all day and took off prints, he also went out and looked at many very detailed interior and exterior repaints, mostly churches.

He knew how much time it would take an average mechcanic to paint any surface
he also always fiquered loss time, staging, rigging, number of colors and any thing and everything that had to do with the job.

Of course when estimating simular buildings, etc you can have a sq ft price that is from historical costs.

My father used to estimate how many yards and a man could produce in a day, then he went to sq ft. He always used factors, for items that were
multifacted. 

Two years ago he was asked to give a price on the exterior painting of the Lizzie Borden house, we painted it many moons ago , so we pulled out our records and saw how many hrs we used for every step of painting and prep.

The owner also called 3 other contractors, the winning bid was less than what we did it for 11 yrs prior......

The building is already peeling badly.

Anyway sorry for the long rant, but please charge your worth, never get caught up in someone else sq ft rate, use your own.

If you can make money at $30 dollars an hr please call me and I will pay you for that secret.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

Hey Think, you can rant all you want your opinion is respected by most here including me.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Our sq/ft price is by footprint/living area. It is just a starting point for one coat ceiling, prime all, one flat wall. Additional colors, finishes, oils, staircases, crown, built ins, mantles, bead board, garages, sashes and high ceilings are all extra's. The sq/ft price is basically assuming average doors, window counts and a standard trim package. The house must be above 1800 sq/ft before I would consider a sq/ft price. You can not make money by doing 1 or 2 rooms by this method.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

kenscar said:


> Capital City - I like to do my bids that way too. However, I just bid seven new houses that haven't even broken ground yet so I had to go off the blueprints. That meant taking my scale rule and methodically figuring out the total surface area. I reckon that's the way it has to be done quite often in this business.
> 
> I just said this on another thread and I'll say it again here: I can't believe most painters would bid using floor square footage! WTF! The footprint of a house only equals the ceilings you have to paint - you're not factoring the WALLS in if you do it that way. How can you bid any job at $2.00 a square foot using only the floor plan and make money? What if there are 12' ceilings? What if there are french doors, crown molding and chair rail in every room? What if they want a different four-color scheme in each room? I just can't believe that's the way most painters estimate new construction, but that seems to be what most posters are telling me on these threads so far. Somebody say it ain't so!


on your next house try this> sq. ft. of floor multiplied by 4 then add 8% to that figure. then you can get the surface area in less than 30 seconds. apply your base price to this number and there's your price. count up your doors and muliply your door price. your base price progresses with each 1 foot ceiling height. if you have crown/chair multiply by linear foot. if any rooms have a four color scheme take them out of the sq. ft. first and apply a unit price for that room. its pretty accurate and it can be completed from a blueprint in less than 3 minutes if your pressed for time.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Brock - that sounds like a pretty good system, and much quicker to figure estimates than the way I did it.

Footprint X 4 + 8%. I like it.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

ya, an old drywaller taught me the system. i have tested it over and over again. it is always very close to actual. i only use it if i am strapped for time and have to shoot the pricing out quickly. i like to figure my materials and guess at the manhours, to compute my estimate. we have always given free estimates, (and pride ourselves on it) so as you can imagine we bid alot of work.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks again, Brock. Anyone else have a good system for bidding per square foot off a print?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

How do you guys alter your rates for repaints versus new. Lets say both houses are empty for the sake of discussion.


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## capital city (Mar 29, 2008)

THINKPAINTING said:


> You are just kidding about $25-30 dollars an hour, thats not really your rate.


No, thats what I charge. Your not the first that has said that was cheap but its what the market here allows. If you dont work for the state then you have a pickup with a ladder in the back it seems like around here. Plus I have only been in business for 6 years and there is 3 of us. It is more important to me to stay busy at $25-$30 an hour then to get what I believe we are worth at $35-40 and hour and be sitting around for parts of the year. What does everyone else charge per hour?


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## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

After inputting all of our numbers into yourcostcenter.com we came up with $32.50 per hour, per man. Granted we have a lot of guys so our overhead gets divided into 20+ guys. Less guys, the more you have to charge to stay above H2O


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

MakDeco said:


> Hey Think, you can rant all you want your opinion is respected by most here including me.


Thanks, M, and yours as well.:thumbsup:


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

I guess what we've learned here is that when a contractor asks you for a price per square foot for new construction, he means floor square footage - not total surface area. Now when I hear about painters asking for $4.00 - $8.00/square foot I'll know why.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

One other thing - when you're pricing a paint job with heights involved, when does the price go up? Higher than 8'? Higher than 12'? Just curious.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

I would add on for anything over 8'


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## BBS (Dec 10, 2007)

Hey Brock,

Thanks for sharing your quick reference.I assume the 8% is for the ceiling height and would change accordingly.This would also be labor and material?
I really only do a little bit of commercial office painting could this formula work there alsn smaller commercial jobs I was curious if anyone ever used so much a gallon as any sort of reference in checking their prices or production.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Pricing per gallon wouldn't really work. It's not the amount of material you want to go by - it's the amount of time and work it takes to put the material on. For instance, if you're painting an 8' wall you'd whip right through a gallon in no time, but if you're painting elaborate window trim 16' up if could take a day to get through a gallon of paint.


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

BBS said:


> Hey Brock,
> 
> Thanks for sharing your quick reference.I assume the 8% is for the ceiling height and would change accordingly.This would also be labor and material?
> I really only do a little bit of commercial office painting could this formula work there alsn smaller commercial jobs I was curious if anyone ever used so much a gallon as any sort of reference in checking their prices or production.


No the 8% is the factoring agent. It is coupled with the multiplier to give surface area. This method is for 8' walls only. It is a simlpe algebra equation though. You could simply draw a couple of imaginary rooms on a piece of paper with 9' walls, compute the actual sq. ft. then see what % the factoring agent would need to be. I would guess 10% for 9' walls 12% for 10' walls etc. Try it for yourself sometime. It's kind of fun to see how you can manipulate the numbers when you are using a factoring agent such as a percentage value. Oh yeah and I already know that when you add the 8% for 8' walls your figure is usually a little higher than actual but that keeps you from taking it in the shorts.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Sounds pretty good. I look forward to trying it out, Brock.
If for nothing more than to double-check future estimates.
Thanks


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## BBS (Dec 10, 2007)

Hey Ken,

I checked out your work after seeing Colorado on your Bio. Man I am definetly impressed with your talent.I moved here from CO after 9/11
to get closer to grandkids.Spent 5yrs in Canon City,CO and worked in the Springs.I miss the blue skies.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Kenscar, you just won a few interiors at *1.75* per wall square footage and only shoot for *30-35 per hour*? Prime and 2 coats on wall? Prime and one coat on trim,windows and doors?


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Hey BBS - thanks for the compliment! So are you still here in Colorado?

Bowman - $30-$35 is the minimum I try to make. If I do it right, I usually make more but you know how jobs go. Sometimes I wind up making less.
That's one coat of primer, two topcoats on everything. For faux and mural work $50/hour is the minimum.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

I was impressed too, Kenscar!
I can paint...but I'm sure no artist.

...and BBS, My FIL lives in Rodgers AR...and I go there as seldom as possible.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks, Steve. I painted murals and sets etc. for big-time showbiz in CA for 11 years, but moved back to Colorado to raise my two young kids in a more peaceful setting. I knew I'd be giving up my career to do so - that's why I'm doing so much straight painting now. Still, I get to do the fun stuff about 50% of the time, so that keeps me sane because, let's face it, painting houses can be an F'ing _*****_.


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## paint_booger (Jun 15, 2007)

Ken,

I also have to give you a bow :notworthy.

I am far from an artist. You are awesome!

Paint Booger


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## BBS (Dec 10, 2007)

Ken and Steve,

No, I still vacation in Colorado.Last year I was in Denver at the Cherrycreek Mall doing a job for 7weeks.Hope to be there in Sept. for the Blues Fest in Canon City.I moved to Hot Springs in Dec.2001.Took about a $30,000 drop in pay as a Superintendent and was made to put tool belt on more often.
Since moving here I have spent two years a local Supt.,two as a Safety Director, and one and half as a traveling Supt. up until Oct.07 
Most people here in construction want to work for theirselves.Not alot of good paying jobs here.I have always went right back to remodeling when not an employee.Speaking of Rodgers Steve I did work up that direction last year at the new mall.That area is the best paying area in Arkansas for employees.When I lived in Colorado,I did alot of military jobs at the Academy and the air force base.Taking my biz. a little bit further this time,should have my license by the end of the month.Hoping to stay more in commercial work doing construction management.
Sure is alot easier being an employee.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

I hear that - my taxes are killing me this year! It's so much easier when you're an employee and they just come out of your check automatically. But being you own boss is worth it, right? Right?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> let's face it, painting houses can be an F'ing _*****_


I can see that with your talent! :thumbsup: I sometimes wish my youngest son had gone into some kind of graphics work. Not sure how good he is with painting, but he is very detailed in pencil drawings. He grew up doing He-man with amazing detail.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

That's exactly how I started - except for me it was the Terminator and Freddy Kruger.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

*Hey BBS*

Hey BBS - what were you doing at the Cherry Creek Mall? Sounds like a good gig.


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## wopachop (Feb 12, 2008)

diggin your thread kenscar. i read post #35 but still a little confused. anyway you can recap it please?


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## BBS (Dec 10, 2007)

Hey Kenscar,

Just got back from visiting Houston for the weekend.Celebrating the big 50 B.D.
I remodeled the gap clothing store at Cherry Creek.I was traveling around the country mainly working on clothing stores and some resturants.


Builders think in terms of the sq. feet of the house there building.
This is the language they want to hear.
They do not care how any of their subs figure their #'s so to speak.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Hey wopachop - what I meant was I read several posts on this site by painters who said they charge $4.00, $8.00, even $10.00 per square foot and I wondered: 1. How they can charge that much and 2. Where do they live so I can move there.

But, now I know that we were thinking in different terms. When I charge per square foot that means the surface area of all the walls and ceilings. When they charge per square foot it means the square footage of the floor plan - i.e. the "footprint". Apparently, that is what most people in this business mean when they say "square footage" - the floor plan.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

By-the-way, I think charging by surface area is better if you can do it. Does everyone agree?


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## wopachop (Feb 12, 2008)

kenscar said:


> By-the-way, I think charging by surface area is better if you can do it. Does everyone agree?


i know from searching that this question doesnt go over well...but :whistling

what is an average surface area sq ft price for "labor only". repaint ceiling and walls with no baseboard installed? some walls taper from 8' to 20' so obviously there are tall ceilings. 

HO is my friend and supplying materials i just have no idea the time it will take me so i need to estimate by actual sq ft. thanks guys im feeling lost here...2860sq ft walls, 1440 ceiling


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

hey wopachop - well, if you're not factoring material costs in then I'd say $1.50 per square foot of surface area for that job. If the guy's a really good friend then $1.25 There are some really high areas to reach, and that's a lot of work. That's a three-color scheme - walls/trim/ceilings, and assuming there isn't a lot of elaborate trim like crown molding and picture/chair rails

To really be sure you get what you're worth on the gig I'd maybe ask for an hourly rate instead of charging by the square foot - especially if you haven't done a lot of painting. I usually aim for $35/hour at least.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

FYI: There are many pro's on this site that think $35/hour is chump change.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes...I wipe my behind with $35.00 an hr.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

The problem with any national average could not work, cost of living is way to different all over the country.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Ah. True dat. Regional averages would be nice to know - but then again you run into the secrecy thing. It's hard to figure out what to charge. I'm not a good enough actor to call other companies pretending to be a HO looking for prices. My wife might be able to pull it off, though . . .


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## paint_booger (Jun 15, 2007)

About 6 months after being in business for myself, I sat down, and looked around at the competition. I wondered how much they were charging, and wondered why they were getting so many jobs. My nitch (in the begining) was exterior repaints. There are a few College Crap and Painter Bros that swamped the residential neighborhoods every summer. 

I had my parents call them for an estimate. To my surprise, their price was pretty close to mine. The difference was in the presentation. (Mind you ... this was in the pre-computer days.) I used a peice of carbon paper between pages of an office supply store Proposal pad. They had a glossy folder with a reference sheet, cert. of ins, before and after pics, and color charts. 

I didn't learn much about the pricing, but I spiffed up my presentation, worked on my immage, and business boomed.

I would recomend getting a few quotes from your competitors! You might learn something.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Alright, I'll do it. If the Paint Booger so decrees.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

One of the last jobs I did with someone else came to about .20 per foot for wall space. He made up for it by charging $1 per foot for base board and about the same for quarter round. i will never for get when they asked him what kind of paint they should get, while walking towrd his van, he replied, "Thats up to you. I'm just the applicator." I wanted to kind of hide my face.

Same guy did some commercial work for the same people, a young up and coming couple. I attempted to spray the doors with a little Wagoner. I propped the doors up outside to spray then. Wind came up and a sprinkling rain. Doors got blown over and need be done over. I told him they were not ready. He didn't care he needed the "damned money". This was near my decision to learn as much as I could and go it alone. Last I heard, he never did get all his money. He got most of it by far, but they told him to get a lawyer for the rest. And I assume I got all the blame for the doors when he was talking to the customer. I wanted so bad to go to the couple for a long time afterwards and offer to strip the doors if necessary at no charge, but figured it would cause hard feelings and seem as if I was stealing a customer from him. I think this couple would have been good to have a on *client* list. Who knows, maybe they just used him for a low price. But I feel they would have worth trying to cultivate into regulars.

Didn't mean to go off on a tangent. Just saying a price you are confident with for the market you are in, a respectable presentation, and backing up what you say by your actions make the professional. Heheh, I wish I could call the competetion up and grill them too, but that is just not me. I guess I will go by trial and error with help of the board here. Through rambling now..


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Yeah. It takes a little time to build a rep - a couple years I'd say. Once you get that ball rolling, though, you're golden.


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## paint_booger (Jun 15, 2007)

I'll be out there from July 10 to 16 ... Do you work as far as Greeley? I know some people, and could pass a few cards out.

booger


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Hey Guru - Yeah, I'd work in Greeley. I went to college there for five years so why not? It was my second home for a while.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

*Here's the MDO rafting mural thus far.*

GURU - what say you about this? I still have to add a shore line, finish the last two figures, then cut out the faces and put them on hinges, cut out the top border, seal the edges, clear coat the face . . . lots of work still. But - this is what I was asking you about on another thread. It's on MDO - 3/4".


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## paint_booger (Jun 15, 2007)

Very Nice!:thumbsup:


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## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

I have to chime in on the "square foot" charge. We do a lot of houses at $10 a sq. ft. that is floor sq. ft. One house in Alpine NJ was just over 16k sq ft. Our charge was $160k. That is one coat primer, fill nail holes, 2nd coat primer re-fill nail holes, sand all walls, paint all walls with two coats eggshell, all ceilings two coats flat, then paint all trim, oil base (by brush) one coat, sand all trim and re-paint a second coat. I think that $160k was a great price for this work. I don't price by the sq ft but if you do the math at the end of your bidding, you can come up with a sq ft price. I love telling builders that I don't paint the floors when they ask for a sq ft price.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

> 2nd coat primer


Two complete coats of primer?

I imagine a house that size has a lot of detail.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Premierpainter - Wow, you do a quality job. Two coats of primer, sanding, etc. Hopefully the HO's realize what they're getting - if not they will in twenty years when it still looks new. Why do you use oil-base on the trim? The technology is getting so good - there's some great water-based products out there.

$10/square foot of floor space definitely sounds like a good price for the job you do.


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## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

Not oil primer but oil semi-gloss. We did two coats of primer on all of the trim...even if it was factory primed. Never once saw or met the HO. We dealt with the GC and the PITA Decorator on the job. We were there a long time. Detail is not the word, insane amount of detail would not even come close to the description.
That price is not too normal for us. We just did a new house with primer and two coats for around $5.00 a ft.


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## stoner (Oct 19, 2007)

that looks amazing!


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Why use oil-based gloss, primer or anything anymore? Water-based is just as good - and better _for_ you!


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## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

kenscar said:


> Why use oil-based gloss, primer or anything anymore? Water-based is just as good - and better _for_ you!


We don't use Oil much. It was spec'd that way in the decorators quote sheet.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Ah - that makes sense. Bet it looked awesome though.


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## kenscar (Mar 7, 2008)

Anyone here done a lot of painting on cement/fiber board exterior siding? You definitely have to prime that stuff, right? Unless it's bought pre-primed.


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## paint_booger (Jun 15, 2007)

kenscar said:


> Anyone here done a lot of painting on cement/fiber board exterior siding? You definitely have to prime that stuff, right? Unless it's bought pre-primed.


There are a few different kinds. Around here we see a lot of prefinished hardie-board. Here are a couple links ...

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/helpSupport_FAQs.shtml#4

http://www.cement.org/homes/ch_bs_fibercement.asp

pb


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## bcpainter (Mar 6, 2013)

sq foot wallspace or footspace is irrelevant, they are just models you can use to get a price! neither are wrong if you know how to use them correctly. estimating should be easy what is hard is the time consuming work it takes to figure exactly what everything is worth. making sure you are cover in all aspects (labour, materials, overhead and profit).

you can get accurate pricing for either, you translate all your variables (ceiling height, crown moulding, wainscotting, coffered ceilings, anything and everything) into a sq foot price, adjust it accordingly. i personally use a floor space. you absolutely can get it down to science.

you should always know how to price things in multiple ways to get the fairest and most accurate price, for your customer and especially yourself.

everybody is different, come up with your own way of pricing, as for people that ask how much to charge and the going rate. i always wanted to familiarize my self with what people charged, but not to bid under. you have to be aware of everything. if you are way higher maybe your not effiecent or experienced enough and need to change not by worker for less money personally! but by doing things with the same amount of high quality smarter! and possibly competing with people that share the same values not by competing with low ballers.

bottom line is take your time put in your experience always keep learning. you will get the prices you want if you put the time in to learn and still get jobs! painting is a service period not a money grab!

ps. some people that paint for a living are not real painters, this a honorable profession, just because anyone can get started doing it doesnt mean you are a painter. Please put in the time, the experience(business and labour wise). You only hurt yourself in the long run and the painters that do this "professionaly". Go to school to get your ticket, get the training and experience, get business experience, before you disgrace a profession that alot people work very hard to build.


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## Painter One (Dec 26, 2011)

I think Porter Paint has a little book that breaks down things per surface area or liner foot. Seems like the last time I looked at it I saw .32 per square foot just to paint the walls....I did do some work for 3.00 per foot on the heated area for a bulder, it worked out ok since there was lots of work then...nowadays you could do like the illegals, bid the price they want then stop keeping telling them you need more than that and take off with the second bump up money--seems to work for them.....never tried it though.


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## paintnatzi (Apr 10, 2013)

*price per ft.*

Ive always known it to be price per square foot of building size. When a GC asks how much a foot, thats what hes asking. And I dont bid like that. Way too many variables for mistakes. I look at the job, do a takeoff, figure it all out, and put a number that works for ME... I know idiots in my neck of the woods doing track house work for ... READY ?..... 1.20 to 1.35 per sq ft of house size.. I dont know how they do it. Better still... I dont WHY they'd do it. Theyre on the crazy train.....


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## Pete'sfeets (Mar 20, 2011)

I'd never do a house by sq, foot, I might stop to review it at the end and say, well this cost X amount and it's sq foot and do a calculation but it's novelty. It only one way or the other, I get people saying well , how much five minutes in the door, >I don't even know what sort of paint , the finish or the color, the brand. You want avoid them as they are looking for a free ride instead of revealing a true value. The price per sq. doesn't even consider is it done by a brush or with a gun. by a schitzoid drunk or someone with experience. If the objective is only price then it must be a job for someone with something to prove and it won't be the painter.


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## paintnatzi (Apr 10, 2013)

LOL... I agree with pete. I get calls all the time from people who want me to quote it over the phone by the house footage. I always shake my head and tell em I'm not interested. They're just out shopping. PERIOD... They dont want a good job by a true professional, with a professional crew, staff, office, insurance, overhead and so on. They want the illegals or drunks who fly the back of their pick up and tell em ( over the phone ) how's 1.50 a foot sound, I can be there in a couple days. And I've found that these people want a figure by footage to so they can just kick it around and see if it would be better to go to Home Depot and throw some color on themselves or hire some dope smoking monkey to slap some color on and git ! And if you do give em an idea by footage, dont believe em when they say "I wont hold you to it." The first time you say you need more money they'll say ...." well you told me it would be THIS much." I did that once when new... NEVER did it again ! And all the better for it.


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