# bad roofing job I think



## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

Hello all, 

I just had someone reroof my house. I don't think that he was too professional becuase there are many things that I can find that aren't to the manufacturers recommendations. There are 6 pages of pictures and If you don't mind can you please review the work at this website adt-web.com/construct/xclick/page/page1.htm and give me your feedback on how to proceed. I really do need some professional advice and I mean quick cause I really don't trust anybody locally and I don't want any harm to come to the roof. Thank you much for the help:thumbsup:


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I'm not a roofer but know a crappy job when I see one. That's one of them.


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## River Rat Dad (Feb 18, 2006)

Certainly a very sloppy job to say the least. Let the building inspector fail it. Or was a permit ever pulled?
Does your "roofer" actually have a legitimate company?
I am guessing you took the lowest bid? 
And who uses T-locks anymore except on a big old barn in the country?


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## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

Thank you for the help. The next question is what needs to be replaced and done inorder to make it last. I understand that there is alot that will probably need to be done but what can I do. Everybody uses the three tab shingles know right. Thank you


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

The only thing I see that they did right was install the I&W on top of the drip edge. 
First off, Iko shingles are not very good. Must have gotten them from Menards. Nobody uses T-loks or 3 tabs anymore, it's all multi layer shingles. They reused all the flashings, pipe covers, vents....not good. Nobody uses roofing cement except for on exposed nails. As far as the ridge being crooked, not many use a chalk line for ridge unless it is a hip where it is noticeable from the ground. 
I'm not sure what you can do except get another professional opinion and go to court, unless you can get some money back out of the guy. I have seen many roofing jobs done wrong, but there isn't much you can do. You could wait it out and see if it leaks or redo the whole thing. I realize everyone is looking for the best price, but when it comes to labor work, you need to get someone licensed and with references.


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## mattp (Apr 5, 2006)

Ice and water on top of the drip edge? What about snow and water that back up under the drip edge? I put ice and water under drip edge and hang it over the fascia.


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## GAK (Apr 22, 2005)

I have to ask how in the he!! ll you chose this particular "company" to do your roof?
He obviously has no clue about what he is doing. Did you check references?, look at some of his other work?, get other bids?
This roof will be leaking with the first rain or two. I would not pay him and I would hire someone else to redo the whole thing.
Why did you choose a single coverage shingle?

I hate to say it but I imagine you went with the lowest price and got just what you paid for. 
:stupid:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Snow and water can't get through the seal of the I&W and the metal can it? Probably not. If it is installed under and on the fascia, yes it does work, but you cannot replace the fascia metal. This is the way it is required in MN, and it solved alot of problems from the past. The soffit, fascia, drip edge, gutters, and roofing is a system that has to work and has to be replaceable.


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## mattp (Apr 5, 2006)

Both ways probaly work fine. I thought you were stating that if they installed the I&W under it, it would not work. If it was required in my state I would do it also.


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## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

I have heard that over and on the fascia method mentioned in other articles as an alternative to the ontop of the drip edge method. Most articles that I have read mention the ontop of the drip edge method so that is what I went with. Either way niether method was done here. As far as the roofing cement is concerned though the instructions on how to install the t-lock shingles on its packaging says this (shingles or portions of shingles as they reach the rake edge in each course, should be sealed down with plastic cement) and on the open metal valley it says OPEN METAL VALLEY: (FIGURE 1) For longer roof performance, metal valleys are recommended. Complete valley flashing before shingles are applied. Center a 36" width strip of 50 lb. roll roofing or ICE & WATER PROTECTOR (A) in the valley. Ensure flashing is tight to the deck, then fasten with only enough nails to hold in place, nailing at the edges only. Center a minimum 24" wide, minimum 28 gauge pre-finished/galvanized metal valley liner (B) in the valley, and fasten with only enough nails to hold in place, nailing at the edges only. Snap two chalk lines (C) the full length of the valley, 6" apart at the top and increasing in width 1/8" per foot towards the bottom. When the shingles are being applied, lay them over the valley flashing, trim the ends to the chalkline, and cut a 2" triangle off the corner to direct water into the valley (D).Embed the valley end of each shingle into a 3" band of asphalt plastic cement(E), and nail the shingles 2" back from the chalk line. CLOSED CUT OR WOVEN VALLEYS ARE ALSO ACCEPTABLE. ON how to install a closed cut valley I read that on this website tdi.state.tx.us/wind/bldcode/307.html and this one toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleID=2332&position=0&type=article

All the instructions on how to install vent/pipe flashing that I have read always say to place roofing cement at the bottom underside of the flashing and under the shingles that overlap it at the top. 

What is you opinion about all that what I wrote? 

I understand that it is very bad but what should I do know. I know you gyes all say do go back to the company but I cannot sense he is a relative of mine and even though he said that he was qualified before the installation to do the job I guess he wasn't. What can I say though I am a sucker?


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

MJW, water and ice sure can get under the drip edge, though. :thumbsup:


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

What good does IWS do on top of a drip rdge or gutter apron? All it does is creates an interruption in the waterseal. If you have to replace the fascia, you can easily cut the IWS and patch it in and use a butyl rubber or water cutoff to seal the wateredge. Pretty simple really.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Michaela, disown him LOL


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## Dave-Raleigh (Jun 12, 2006)

Michaela521, I'm confused on what you want us to do here to help you. Are you just looking for sympathy or do you want us to tell you to sue the relative? Something in between?

All the advice points to, and confirms for you, that he didn't have a clue on how to do the shingling job. Particularly the flashing job and details.

Why don't you trust anyone locally? Seems your big mistake was letting the jack leg relative do the job. Do you live in a one horse town that has only one roofer?

I guess you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you hire someone else to fix the problems (and you should) then all your relatives will know you think the relative did a bad job (which he did). 

If you don't get the roof fixed then you are going to have leaks, rotting lumber, and probably a bunch of other problems (related to the lousy job) in the coming years that could cost many, many thousands of dollars to fix.

Suck it up and admit you tried to save a few bucks and hired a relative that couldn't roof a dog house correctly.

Now go get three estimates from professional, licensed, bonded roofers that have good reputations and let one of them fix the problems.

Or you could just go up there with a tar bucket and tar the heck out of all the mistakes. After all you have managed to get up there to take all the pictures.

BTW where are you located, how big is the house and what is it worth? Is this a modest 1200 sq ft house or a 5000 sq ft home? Something in between?

If I had to guess I'd say you were hoping for everyone here to tell you to not worry and those things you perceived as problems were really ok.

Well that's not going to happen (unless your relative gets on here and trys to defend himself).


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## J&MHRS (Jul 6, 2006)

Man there fired, where did you find that roof team?
Very Very bad if that is a company i would call them back. It looks like they were all drinking. Yes it does need to be fixed. And my personal opinion will tell you that it needs to be tore and reinstalled bad news but its better than decking and replacing drywall. Sorry for that bad luck in finding the drunk roof team and i hope you have better luck getting it fixed
Michael


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## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

No no no, I am not looking for sympathy I am just looking for information. I plan on getting up there and fixing the job myself that is why I am filling my head with all this information. Inorder to take those pictures and post the mistakes I had to do alot of reading. I have shingled a roof before and it was actually an old barn on my property. I have to say I did a much better job. I actually read the instructions on the packaging. I cannot get the money back even if I sue though. So no good to complain at them or anything. There is nothing I can do. I suppose if something good comes out of this I will learn something and perhaps if someone else reads this post they will learn from my mistake instead of finding out by making it on there own.

Do I really have to tear it all off though. I mean isn't there something I can do. I think I can fix everything without ripping off shingles except for the fact the nails are in the wrong place on the shingles and the IB3 self adhering membrane wasn't installed on the roof decking and properly overlapped on the top of it with roofing felt. If I fixed everything except these properties could I get at least 5 years out of the deal?

I live in a cold snowy region, Small town, modest house. Thanks for helping:thumbsup:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

AaronB. said:


> What good does IWS do on top of a drip rdge or gutter apron? All it does is creates an interruption in the waterseal. If you have to replace the fascia, you can easily cut the IWS and patch it in and use a butyl rubber or water cutoff to seal the wateredge. Pretty simple really.


I'd like to see you pry up the drip edge and patch the ice shield without bending it all to you know what. Just face it, it's a wrong idea that someone put in your head. I know what works in hard winters and I know how to replace things from bad hail storms or wind storms. It's the only thing that works. 
What about the nail holes that pertrude through the edging and I&W? Is that sealed? Kind of, but not really. I have replaced plenty of rotten fascias and soffits where this has been done incorrectly. I have proven how this works with plenty of pictures in the past. I have seen nothing to prove me wrong.


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## mattp (Apr 5, 2006)

MJW
What stops the water and snow from building up and going through between the drip edge and fascia then back into the soffit or the corner of the sheathing and then heading up hill from there.


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## River Rat Dad (Feb 18, 2006)

Just a side note on ice shield. Its great stuff, but its only been around 20 some years. We lived without it for a long time.

I'M currently tearing off two layers on a 40 year old ranch style house. It doesn't even have felt under the original roof. So far after tearing about 8 square I have replaced 1 sheet of plywood. And I probably coulda just done a 1/2 sheet


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

mattp said:


> MJW
> What stops the water and snow from building up and going through between the drip edge and fascia then back into the soffit or the corner of the sheathing and then heading up hill from there.


It doesn't happen. Between the fascia and drip edge it is so tight normally you can't even get a knife blade in there.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

River Rat Dad said:


> Just a side note on ice shield. Its great stuff, but its only been around 20 some years. We lived without it for a long time.
> 
> I'M currently tearing off two layers on a 40 year old ranch style house. It doesn't even have felt under the original roof. So far after tearing about 8 square I have replaced 1 sheet of plywood. And I probably coulda just done a 1/2 sheet


This is so true. Many things are going overkill just because of a few idiot mistakes in the past.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

> Do I really have to tear it all off though. I mean isn't there something I can do. I think I can fix everything without ripping off shingles except for the fact the nails are in the wrong place on the shingles and the IB3 self adhering membrane wasn't installed on the roof decking and properly overlapped on the top of it with roofing felt. If I fixed everything except these properties could I get at least 5 years out of the deal?


If you can get the flashing details repaired, and it doesn't blow apart due to high nailing you might get quite a few years out of it. If you read the (hijacked :whistling) thread about IWS, you'll find that people used to put roofs on without it and they didn't all leak. You won't have the peace of mind that should come with a purchase of a new roof but you certainly should get many years out of it IMO. Good luck.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

"trim the ends to the chalkline, and cut a 2" triangle off the corner to direct water into the valley ".Quote

For the record, I prefer to cut off nearly all the un-exposed part of the shingle. Slate too. And the cut needs to be 'vertical', straight up and down, on a line with the rafters. Never seen that leak.

Personally, An 18" piece of I&W under the drip-edge, followed by the 36" I&W on top sounds 'bullet-proof'.:thumbup:


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## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

I think that I will be able to get er dun. For the valley I will probably have to remove shingles to a good point and for the flashing that they punctured on the valley here (the flashing on the valley is new) I will try and keep it by dabbing roofing cement and putting a nail in the nail holes that are closer than 6" from the valley center. After that I will just follow the instructions on how to properly install shingles in a closed cut valley.











For the chimney it looks like it needs new flashing cause there are rather large cracks in it that is probably caused from the chimney moving away from the house. I don't really know how I am to replace the flashing unless I remove the slate pieces with a prybar and hammer. Unless somebody here has a better idea.











This flashing piece is very rusted at the bottom but the rest of it looks good. I don't know where I will be able to find something like it so I was wondering if I could just replace the bottom part by using pieces of sheet metal, glueing the new stuff to the old with roofing cement and use sheet metal screws if necessary and on the seems use silicone to water proof. I will try to keep the amount of pieces of sheet metal to a minimum to eliminate seems. thank you as always for the help.


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## River Rat Dad (Feb 18, 2006)

Those flashing collars are available at hardware stores often. HVAC suppliers for sure. But often the HVAC suppliers only sell to licensed contractors.

If you try to "patch" the one there with pieces of sheet metal, screws roofing cement and caulk your no different than the knucklehead who did the job to begin with. Maybe its a genetic thing....


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## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

Well, I am no roofer. I wouldn't do it that way unless one of you gave me the go. Thanks for helping.


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## rpb1967 (Aug 5, 2006)

WOW! i just started looking at this thread and i must say, thats about worst job i ever seen. iv'e seen each those problems individuialy, but man-o-man i can see why you don't trust anyone locally. they would insist on ripping it off and starting over. i know i would. i cant see any way to fix all of those problems with 100% confidence that there will not be future damage.


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## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

It is not that I don't trust anybody locally to do the job right it is just that I usually find more knowledgeful people online. Mayby it is becuase I live in a small town but that is just the way how it is. And, you know, there is this thing that the advice that they give you might be swayed some becuase they are trying to sell you something and they might not even realize it either. but thank you all for helping.:thumbup:


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## kodiak_island (Sep 3, 2004)

Small claims better business check the mans license. I would derfinately check this guy out and see if he is even licensed to contract.


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## arrowroofing (Sep 19, 2006)

I cant view the pics for some reason, al i get to come up for adt-web is advanced drug testing lol


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## AtlantaLawn.com (Sep 24, 2006)

what happen to the pics?


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## Michaela521 (Feb 24, 2006)

The site that I was using I was actually borrowing the space for some time so I had to take it off. Bandwidth space etc.. I suppose I could try and put them on a free site like gmail or something (don't know how well this is though) but why? You are just going to look at them and think Jee, poor gye I feel sorry for you. Moreover after inspecting even further and looking under the shingles (cause I have repaired some spots) I probably could have made 2 more pages of pictures with mistakes. These mistakes go beyond common sense though. No way the installer didn't know that this was correct. If I would've know these other mistakes I would've probably just not have started this thread to begin with cause it is quite evident that the only good thing to do would be to replace the whole thing. I personally think that this is a waste of your professional time cause these errors are something a 12 year old could figure out. Thanks


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

Michaela521 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I just had someone reroof my house. I don't think that he was too professional becuase there are many things that I can find that aren't to the manufacturers recommendations. There are 6 pages of pictures and If you don't mind can you please review the work at this website adt-web.com/construct/xclick/page/page1.htm and give me your feedback on how to proceed. I really do need some professional advice and I mean quick cause I really don't trust anybody locally and I don't want any harm to come to the roof. Thank you much for the help:thumbsup:


I'm feeling left out i cant figure out how to bring that link up. I tried copy and paste didn't work.:whistling How did you guys get it to come up.


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## RussellF (Aug 22, 2006)

Can someone paste that link on here again........I can't get to the page.........thanks.


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