# What is a good black mold killer?



## wallmaxx

I am demo-ing a master bath. The tile was set straight onto regular GWB. I have ripped the GWB off and I have some bad wood. I can't remove the studs because the HOs don't want that room disturbed, so I am going to just sister new PT lumber in the cavities.

What are some of the sprays that y'all would recommend that I could use to kill the mold that is there now.

I will be putting Durock on it later this week. Any help is appreciated.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallmaxx/sets/72157624048194824/


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## Cole82

Dehumidifier and some hydrogen peroxide work well. Used it in my house when it flooded in 08. The local house department told me that bleach kills about 75% of the molds out there, peroxide kills them all though. I did have to do it a couple times where it was bad.

Cole


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## genecarp

http://www.amazon.com/Molderizer-Organic-Mildew-Remover-Breaks/dp/B001ACFV06


GMOD


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## neolitic

Is your funny looking treated KDAT? 
Our YP would want to dry in place 
for weeks before closing the wall,
unless it was KDAT.


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## wallmaxx

genecarp said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Molderizer-Organic-Mildew-Remover-Breaks/dp/B001ACFV06
> 
> 
> GMOD


Thanks for the quick replies. I went to lunch and had the CT braintrust work my problem. That is too cool.

It seems to be unavailable right now.


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## angus242

Available elsewhere:
http://www.mycleaningproducts.com/mold-removal/


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## wallmaxx

neolitic said:


> Is your funny looking treated KDAT?
> Our YP would want to dry in place
> for weeks before closing the wall,
> unless it was KDAT.


You mean our perforated PT hemlock. I think you can get KD stuff for finished decks (and it has no exterior face perforations) but mostly the PT stuff comes pretty wet and "machined" (and fat by an 1/8" in both directions)


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## neolitic

I just worry about covering up
anything that has as much moisture content
as our stuff has. :thumbsup:


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## Jaf

Why not use bleach, then scrub with TSP?

I think that's the standard solution, unless black mold calls for something special. I've heard that 'starchy mold' is hard to get rid of, whatever that is.


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## KennMacMoragh

I use bleach, seems to work good


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## ApgarNJ

if you really ready up on mold sites, bleach has a lot of water in it and can actually help feed the mold. it may look clean but it will come back. I was reading up on this a while back.


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## Insuranceclaims

Ok, this is probably more information than you want, but here goes:

Unless you are a hygienist, I would not scare homeowners and tell them that they have Black Toxic Mold. All mold is black when it is wet!

Unless you are qualified and the mold has been tested at a laboratory, mold is mold until told otherwise.

In addition, you are also raising a red flag and could be opening yourself for liability issues.

The key issues in dealing with mold are:

1) Identify the source of lost before attempting any work. Make sure the source is repaired or stopped.

1) Before performing any work, do you need to have testing of the mold performed by a licensed hygienist? Does the insured have any respiratory issues? Are there pets, small children or senior citizens in the house? They are more susceptible to an unclean breathing environment.

A hygienist can identify the type of mold and spore counts in the house compared to outside the house. For additional fees, the hygienist can write a protocol, which tells what and how to remediate the mold. After all remediation is done and before repairs are made, a post-test clearance is also performed. These varied services can run anywhere from $375 to $2,500.

2) Understand the proper method or removal to prevent further damage in the structure.

In your case, it sounds like water seeped through bad grout lines or got into the wall cavity by seeping aoround the fixtures that may not have been properly caulked.

Before making repairs, there are several options: the right way and the wrong way.

Mold grows from the presence of stagnant water or an area with high moisture content, a food source.....wood framing or the paper from drywall, and high temperature (70+)////high relative humidity (60%+), which you would have inside a wall cavity.

Obviously, you have all of these characteristics in the tub/shower.

Containment and proper removal are mandatory. 
As soon as mold is detected, I would have detached the door, brought a small air scrubber in the room, contained th door opening with a piece of 6 ml plastic, sealed with duct tape. Then, I would have attached a zipper to get in/out of the containment. The air scrubber would keep the air clean and catch any mold spores floating in the atmosphere, when you remove the tile/GWB.

You or your employees should have on Tyvek suits and cartridge respirators.....al least 1/2 mask or full face mask.

As the materials are removed, all items should have been double bagged in 6 ml plastic and taped. Wipe down the outer bags with Microban before exiting the room.

The purpose is to prevent the mold spores on the material from spreading into other rooms that are not contaminated. If they do travel into other rooms, the spores can float and will eventually land on the walls, floor or contents. Depending on temperature/relative humidity in the house, they can either sit dormant or incubate from the high temperature/high relative humidity and mold will generate from the spores.

Remediation
Now that the wall cavity is exposed, you see the mold growth on the framing. You will want to use a moisture meter to determine what areas of the wall cavity and or framing are wet. You will set up a dehumidifier to dry the structure.

Unless qualified, you may want to outsource this next step: a) hepa vacuum the mold, wipe down with the proper chemicals (Microban, Shockwave), and sand/vacuum at the same time.

While under containment, you may have a dehumidifier and an air scrubber in the room. Once the wall cavity is dried and cleaned, also hepa vacuum and wipe down the entire ceiling and walls, plus all items in the room. Leave the air scrubber in the room an extra day.

Post-Test Clearance
At this point and depending on the degree of mold, you may want to get a post-test clearance. Your containment and air scrubber should still be running. If you fail the test, more cleaning may be required.

Once you pass the test, you can encapsulate the framing. See below.

Visit the site of Fiberlock Technologies: 

http://www.fiberlock.com/products/8360.html

You can call at 800-342-3755 and ask for tech support for further help.

Another product is Microban. http://www.prorestoreproducts.com/

Also talk to sales/support: 800-332-6037 or chat online....not sure of their hours.....visit site and try.

In recent years, OSHA now discounts that bleach does not kill mold, and the EPA followed suit. I have attached a very good link to the EPA on mold http://www.epa.gov/mold/index.html and another link to the .PDF brochure on A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture and Your Home http://www.epa.gov/mold/pdfs/moldguide.pdf

These links will provide some good knowledge, yet, for remodelers, who are not experienced in water, wind and fire losses (any property losses involving moisture content or water damage), you can contact me for further advice. Dealing with any type of water damage loss to a structure must involve the proper drying of the structure and possible remediation before repairs are made.

My posting falls under the category of insurance restoration, which is a specialized field. I have worked the restoration and adjuster sides of the insurance fence for the last 16 years throughout the country. 

I hope this info helps. Don't hesitiate to ask any more questions.


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## Jeff G

ApgarNJ said:


> if you really ready up on mold sites, bleach has a lot of water in it and can actually help feed the mold. it may look clean but it will come back. I was reading up on this a while back.


I've never heard of this. I've always used bleach with good results. Have had some jobs with horrible mold problems, and approximately 10 years later, I still see no indication of the mold rearing it's ugly head again. I wonder what determines the success, or not, of bleach irradiating the mold? I suppose I should research a bit on the subject.

Thanks for bringing that up ApgarNJ!


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## angus242

I've also heard that bleach doesn't kill the mold, it well....bleaches it making you think it is gone.


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## KennMacMoragh

You can use water and detergent on certain materials. But if it's wood, the EPA recommends using wood floor cleaner. http://www.epa.gov/mold/table2.html


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## FStephenMasek

Insuranceclaims has good advice. Even dead mold spores can bother people, so you want to clean it away. You can wire brush or sand the wood (in containment, with one man holding the house from the HEPA VAC and the other using the angle grinder with a wire brush or sander). After you are done, Foster 40-20 or Fiberlock IAQ are good biocidal encapsulants.
________
Wong Amat Tower Condo Pattaya


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## griz

Hey Insureanceclaims, I sure am glad you spoke up. Very accurate and extremely well put. Thank you.


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## MALCO.New.York

I do NOT have ANY faith in "Organic" cleaners. A mixture of Bleach and TSP _ARE_ the U S Forest Services suggestion.

As for Mold of _ANY_ type located _in_ a substrate or behind walls........ _Replacement_ of the wood is the ONLY fool-proof remedy! The dead Mold Spores left behind are a PERFECT host for NEW Mold to grow!


http://www.buildings.com/tabid/3413/ArticleID/2285/Default.aspx


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## Jaf

TSP is Tri-sodium phosphate. Really heavy duty commercial cleaner. What I've heard is you spray a water bleach mixture on the mold to 'kill' it. Then scrub with a brush and the TSP mixture. The TSP is corrosive to your skin, so you need to wear gloves.

I've seen TSP that if you read carefully isn't TSP, but some "safe, TSP like, skin and frog friendly, substitute", You want real TSP, hot water, and rubber gloves.

My info is years old, and is probably only good for run of the mill mold. But, IMO any mold I see, _is_ run of the mill. Unless "told otherwise", in which case I'd have the client call in the mold pros.

I know there was a big mold scare several years ago, but I've never met a customer, who had any serious mold concerns. If I ran into one, I'd probably back away until they brought in someone who knew more about it.


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## mwhafner

Living in an area that has recently experienced major flooding, I have spoken with several specialists in this area over the last couple weeks. Insuranceclaims advice is 100% right from what I have gathered. Don't mess around, and get your homeowner to spring for an hygienist's opinion. 

The most logical remediation I have heard is 
- to first treat the infected area with soda blasting, or sprayed with ammonia or peroxide
- then prime the affected lumber with a good quality primer.


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## Paulie

I've used Shockwave from fiberlock. Supposed to kill 99.9%


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## Big Shoe

Knock out the moldy studs without damaging the opposite walls,then liquid nail the new studs in. I,ve done this a hundred times and only a few bo-boos on the opposite wall. Just be careful.
Just whack the rotten studs sideways to break it free.

Or,if the studs are solid,bleach them,fan dry them and then paint with oil primer.


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## ApgarNJ

clean, sand, spray with a mold barrier, let it dry. and continue the job. just use a hepa vac when using a sander. i see no reason to take the studs out. once the job is done, the leaky walls aren't going to be leaking anymore and it will be done the right way. therefore, no more moisture will get back there to actually feed the mold again.


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## wallmaxx

Insuranceclaims said:


> Ok, this is probably more information than you want, but here goes:
> 
> Unless you are a hygienist, I would not scare homeowners and tell them that they have Black Toxic Mold. All mold is black when it is wet!
> 
> Unless you are qualified and the mold has been tested at a laboratory, mold is mold until told otherwise.
> 
> In addition, you are also raising a red flag and could be opening yourself for liability issues.
> 
> The key issues in dealing with mold are:
> 
> 1) Identify the source of lost before attempting any work. Make sure the source is repaired or stopped.
> 
> 1) Before performing any work, do you need to have testing of the mold performed by a licensed hygienist? Does the insured have any respiratory issues? Are there pets, small children or senior citizens in the house? They are more susceptible to an unclean breathing environment.
> 
> A hygienist can identify the type of mold and spore counts in the house compared to outside the house. For additional fees, the hygienist can write a protocol, which tells what and how to remediate the mold. After all remediation is done and before repairs are made, a post-test clearance is also performed. These varied services can run anywhere from $375 to $2,500.
> 
> 2) Understand the proper method or removal to prevent further damage in the structure.
> 
> In your case, it sounds like water seeped through bad grout lines or got into the wall cavity by seeping aoround the fixtures that may not have been properly caulked.
> 
> Before making repairs, there are several options: the right way and the wrong way.
> 
> Mold grows from the presence of stagnant water or an area with high moisture content, a food source.....wood framing or the paper from drywall, and high temperature (70+)////high relative humidity (60%+), which you would have inside a wall cavity.
> 
> Obviously, you have all of these characteristics in the tub/shower.
> 
> Containment and proper removal are mandatory.
> As soon as mold is detected, I would have detached the door, brought a small air scrubber in the room, contained th door opening with a piece of 6 ml plastic, sealed with duct tape. Then, I would have attached a zipper to get in/out of the containment. The air scrubber would keep the air clean and catch any mold spores floating in the atmosphere, when you remove the tile/GWB.
> 
> You or your employees should have on Tyvek suits and cartridge respirators.....al least 1/2 mask or full face mask.
> 
> As the materials are removed, all items should have been double bagged in 6 ml plastic and taped. Wipe down the outer bags with Microban before exiting the room.
> 
> The purpose is to prevent the mold spores on the material from spreading into other rooms that are not contaminated. If they do travel into other rooms, the spores can float and will eventually land on the walls, floor or contents. Depending on temperature/relative humidity in the house, they can either sit dormant or incubate from the high temperature/high relative humidity and mold will generate from the spores.
> 
> Remediation
> Now that the wall cavity is exposed, you see the mold growth on the framing. You will want to use a moisture meter to determine what areas of the wall cavity and or framing are wet. You will set up a dehumidifier to dry the structure.
> 
> Unless qualified, you may want to outsource this next step: a) hepa vacuum the mold, wipe down with the proper chemicals (Microban, Shockwave), and sand/vacuum at the same time.
> 
> While under containment, you may have a dehumidifier and an air scrubber in the room. Once the wall cavity is dried and cleaned, also hepa vacuum and wipe down the entire ceiling and walls, plus all items in the room. Leave the air scrubber in the room an extra day.
> 
> Post-Test Clearance
> At this point and depending on the degree of mold, you may want to get a post-test clearance. Your containment and air scrubber should still be running. If you fail the test, more cleaning may be required.
> 
> Once you pass the test, you can encapsulate the framing. See below.
> 
> Visit the site of Fiberlock Technologies:
> 
> http://www.fiberlock.com/products/8360.html
> 
> You can call at 800-342-3755 and ask for tech support for further help.
> 
> Another product is Microban. http://www.prorestoreproducts.com/
> 
> Also talk to sales/support: 800-332-6037 or chat online....not sure of their hours.....visit site and try.
> 
> In recent years, OSHA now discounts that bleach does not kill mold, and the EPA followed suit. I have attached a very good link to the EPA on mold http://www.epa.gov/mold/index.html and another link to the .PDF brochure on A Brief Guide to Mold, Moisture and Your Home http://www.epa.gov/mold/pdfs/moldguide.pdf
> 
> These links will provide some good knowledge, yet, for remodelers, who are not experienced in water, wind and fire losses (any property losses involving moisture content or water damage), you can contact me for further advice. Dealing with any type of water damage loss to a structure must involve the proper drying of the structure and possible remediation before repairs are made.
> 
> My posting falls under the category of insurance restoration, which is a specialized field. I have worked the restoration and adjuster sides of the insurance fence for the last 16 years throughout the country.
> 
> I hope this info helps. Don't hesitiate to ask any more questions.


That is one of the most concise, thorough and helpful posts I have ever read. Thank you. :thumbsup:

I look forward to seeing more of your posts on this site. And if I can ever offer the same level of help I surely shall.:thumbup:


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## AustinDB

I use a product called Shockwave, it kills mold, HIV and a long list of other stuff.

...didn't see Paulie's post on page 2


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## mrmike

I tried a lot of stuff on my boat seats that were molded black from storing it & I bought some of this at a really cheap price & it worked better than anything else I tried. I highly recommend you try this which available everywhere...........


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## tgeb

Very informative posts. :thumbsup:

The active ingredients in the Shockwave product can be found in some off the shelf cleaners and disinfectants for quite a bit less money, check the labels for the compounds listed below.

I have found it in Zep products @ HD and also Proforce products @Sam's Club.

It pays to check the labels on "Mold Remediation" products many on the shelf are nothing more than bleach and water.



> Chemical Name
> 
> 1 - Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride
> 
> 2 - Dimethyl Ethylbenzyl Ammonium Chloride


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## MALCO.New.York

Chemical Name

1 - Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride

2 - Dimethyl Ethylbenzyl Ammonium Chloride


AKA DMQ - Found in nearly ALL Correctional Institutes across AMERICA as a "Non-Lethal Substitute" to Hypo-Sodium Chlorate.

Works well...... I know!


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## bauler

This is getting absurd. I've seen new studs out of the lumber yard covered with mold. As I understand there are mold spoors everywhere. There's this a lot more out there to worry about. I know, gotta cover your rear. Ever seen those microscopic pictures of what is living on you, or your bed. 
Ok, I'm done...


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## mwhafner

> This is getting absurd. I've seen new studs out of the lumber yard covered with mold. As I understand there are mold spoors everywhere. There's this a lot more out there to worry about. I know, gotta cover your rear. Ever seen those microscopic pictures of what is living on you, or your bed.
> Ok, I'm done...


You are 100% correct. The problem is that once you put that stud in a house you built, the lawyers come out of the woodwork (pun intended). It's all about liability.


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## FStephenMasek

Bleach emits chlorine gas, so you have to worry about proper respiratory protection, as well as hand and eye protection, and it damages metal. The cleaners work very well.

Typical lumber yard mold (Chaetomium) is not as much a concern as Stachybotrys (the favorite of the histerical and uninformed, the lawyers, and those looking to make money claiming exposure to mold), and some of the Aspergillius & Penicillium mold which really irritate some people.

The reaactions of people to different molds vary widely. for example, I'm very sensitive to one of the Aspergillius molds, but hardly at all to Stachybotrys.
________
Live Sex


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