# Limestone Tread: Sort of...crumbling?



## Tommy C (Jul 11, 2005)

Hey guys,

Check out these pics below. Homeowner says the steps were done 6 years ago...this guy was such a hack.

It's not a footing issue, as the brick is undisturbed. But the LIMESTONE, in a few spots, has vein-like cracks in it. In a few spots, the limestone tread has crumbled to the consistency of sand. One spot (in pic below) has popped off completely.

My hypothesis is that the treads were laid poorly, and that's why they're failing. I would guess that the mortar setting bed has voids in it, and has popped/cracked in freeze/thaw cycles. Is this accurate?

Or is this a really crappy quality limestone that isn't holding up very well to moisture penetration and spalling?

These steps ARE facing the north, so there is not much sunlight there.

Also, homeowner has confessed to throwing some rock salt, but NOT frequently.

Here are the pics:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It looks to me like there is a water problem that is causing the deterioration. Possibly not enough pitch, but from the looks of it, the water is coming from behind the steps.


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## Tommy C (Jul 11, 2005)

Yea, that could be it. Maybe they filled in the center with dirt. But in that case, wouldnt the brick be failing as well? The brick joints have no problems whatsoever...


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

No, brick is a lot less porous than limestone, as is the mortar.


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## Tommy C (Jul 11, 2005)

Yea...I'll have to see what's underneath the platform slab. If there's dirt there I'll have to remove it.

Seeing that the homeowner has had problems with the treads with her last 2 set of steps here, I might think about applying some sort of sealer to the tops of the limestone treads. Maybe after a year or so. Tscarborough, do you think this is advisable?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Limestone is soft and porous, esp. when fresh. A good penetrating sealer is always a good idea on limestone.


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## Tommy C (Jul 11, 2005)

Yup, limestone is a sponge. I've never sealed it before, though. How long do you advise that I wait before applying a sealer? At least a few months, no?


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Up here in the northeast my 1st impression is the salted the heck out of it.
Don't lay many limestone treads. Bluestone mostly. So I can't say how it should be holding up...but DEFFINATELY a water problem.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Do a moisture test, then seal it.

Moisture test: 6x6 piece of poly taped down for a 24 hour cycle. Any moisture on the poly, wait.


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## jvcstone (Apr 4, 2005)

Hard to say from the pics, but it does appear that the treads were cut across the bedding rather than with it. That in itself would lead to spliting problems, and water penetration would just compound it.

JVC


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## BC Maryland (Mar 11, 2008)

*Limestone treads*

Do not seal it! This is a self inflicted problem by the home owner. I can see that he poured salt on the second tread. The tread near the house was probably covered by the soffit of the house and did not need slip proofing in the winter. Limestone needs to breath and as long as the mason who set the steps did it properly these treads would have been fine.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

BC Maryland said:


> Do not seal it! This is a self inflicted problem by the home owner. I can see that he poured salt on the second tread. The tread near the house was probably covered by the soffit of the house and did not need slip proofing in the winter. Limestone needs to breath and as long as the mason who set the steps did it properly these treads would have been fine.


There are some good breathable sealers out there...but you're right, you don't want to trap the moisture in the stone.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Any sealer you use should be breathable, like the Prime-a-pell 200.


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## Tommy C (Jul 11, 2005)

Additional information: this is a house that was built only 15 years ago. I can't see why they would have filled the platform in with dirt...?

The steps are 12' wide, and there are 3 steps.

I always thought limestone (and all materials from the earth) hold up pretty well against rock salt?

I'm getting underbid by El Cheapo Masons. However, I think due to my top notch sales skills :thumbsup: I can land this baby.


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## Tommy C (Jul 11, 2005)

Homeowner got another estimate from a ... *gasp*... landscaping company! They recommended just replacing the limestone treads. Thoughts?

I would feel much more comfortable replacing all the steps.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Tommy C said:


> I'm getting underbid by El Cheapo Masons. However, I think due to my top notch sales skills :thumbsup: I can land this baby.


You go Tommy C! Just remember to look them in the eye, smile a lot and imperceptibly not your head up and down. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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