# Any idea why this cracked?



## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

framerman said:


> I'm thinking the 2x on the far right is DFir and the other 3 are SPF.


 I used some SPF in the past as well. About 20 years ago.:w00t:

Nothing in this whole world was worse than Eastern Hemlock/Balsam Fir. Now that was some real trash right there. 

I saw some buildings get red tagged for overspanning E.Hem/B.Fir. They ended up doubling them to get the numbers right.:blink:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

:whistling


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

framerman said:


> But why there is a waffle mark on the stud....


Hammer mark?


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Hammer mark?


Eggo.















:laughing:


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

No...waffles....I'm hungry :laughing:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

framerman said:


> But why there is a waffle mark on the stud....


 I have a scar on my right thumb that looks very similar to that mark.:w00t:


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

loneframer said:


> I have a scar on my right thumb that looks very similar to that mark.:w00t:


I hired a kid a long time ago...I think he still has one on his forehead :w00t:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

framerman said:


> I hired a kid a long time ago...I think he still has one on his forehead :w00t:


 I rolled all the meat on the right side of the thumb around to the front with a 28 Estwing. Blasted it full swing, twice in the same day while trying to persuade a header with a block of wood. I'm 25 years smarter now.:blink:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

This is in my house.

Yeah, that does look like a corner! It's a flat, and that is chair rail on top of wainscotting going up the stair case. 

Looking at the stud picture again - the house was built in 1984- the studs on the ends in that picture are original from 84, the two in the middle that are lighter that are sistered together to make 3 are 'new', about 6 years old. 

That is old drywall on the left (from the orginal basement where they just finished the stair case down to the basement and the rest was added on, so thats new drywall on the right.)


The reason I'm asking this is I have this exact same situation in a customers house from work we did in July.

Situation is similar. We removed a double french door from a wall and sheet rocked over the openning. 

Old studs with new studs sistered in the old framed openning for new backer for the new drywall.

The left hand side of this covered old openning is now showing a 6 foot straight crack from floor almost to top of header. Looks almost like no tape was used over the butt joint. But I cut it out with a razor knife and there is mesh tape there. I'm wondering if they used normal compound instead of setting type, since this was a huge job and we had normal on the job site, which we normally don't.

I always thought this was the right way to remove a old opening in a wall, sister in some wood, cover with drywall, blend it in.

Are we doing this wrong and rolling the dice for something like this to happen?


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Whenever I ''fill in'' or ''add on'' to any existing wall or opening I always ''cut back'' 8''-12'' and add new nailer at that point.

This always produces a stronger/flatter new joint. Live and learn.arty:

Welcome back Mike!


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

I never use mesh tape. I don't think it holds well over time. I would try using paper tape and glue the new drywall really well. When closing in a doorway or window. I try to cut back to the between the jack stud and king stud, and so our new drywall is being screwed to the liner which is old and settled and won't move much. Hope that helps mike.


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## go dart (Dec 6, 2005)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Is that the old drywall on the left side of the picture?


Looks like a handyman project anyway. Note the cable staple, and twist in line. Not done professionally.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> I suspect mesh tape and normal mud, but wonder if there is more to it?


Mike, Dig into the one at your house and see what's in there. 
Then please report back to us with your findings.:tank:




Sir Mixalot said:


> Is that the old drywall on the left side of the picture?





Mike Finley said:


> That is old drywall on the left (from the orginal basement where they just finished the stair case down to the basement and the rest was added on, so thats new drywall on the right.)


The reason that I asked, was because alot of time the old drywall 
has not been adequately reattached before the taping on remodels like this.

Although it does look like a Fiberglass mesh tape joint.

-Paul


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> I always thought this was the right way to remove a old opening in a wall, sister in some wood, cover with drywall, blend it in.
> 
> Are we doing this wrong and rolling the dice for something like this to happen?


 In a case such as that, I think it's best to cut back to the center of a stud and make sure both edges are glued and screwed/nailed to the* same* framing member. This will minimize movement at the joint. I also prefer paper tape and heavy weight joint compound to bed the tape in. I think mesh tape will allow more "creep" in the joint.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

quote=Sir Mixalot;1022844]Mike, Dig into the one at your house and see what's in there. 
Then please report back to us with your findings.:tank:





The reason that I asked, was because alot of time the old drywall 
has not been adequately reattached before the taping on remodels like this.

Although it does look like a Fiberglass mesh tape joint.

-Paul[/quote]




Mike Finley said:


> Looking at the stud picture again - the house was built in 1984- the studs on the ends in that picture are original from 84, the two in the middle that are lighter that are sistered together to make 3 are 'new', about 6 years old.
> 
> That is old drywall on the left (from the orginal basement where they just finished the stair case down to the basement and the rest was added on, so thats new drywall on the right.)
> 
> ...


Ok. After reading on in this thread I think it's a combonation 
of premixed mud and fibertape an the new stud contracting as it dries out.:wacko:


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

Hey Mike glad to see you back.

What is the Nail (Or screw) pattern like on the Studs?? 

Is it Possible to Remove the base Trim to see how it was taped?

(Paper vrs Mesh)

Also the Plate at the Bottom Good fix to the Concrete floor?

When Joining old to new I use Durabond (and not the crap at HD) I have had good luck in the Past that way.

Also I nail the joining studs about every 10" or so, criss cross pattern.

Let us know what you find out.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

This is fun arty: One other thing it may have been. If the old existing wall had any sheen to it or was dirty from hand grabbing all the time (oil from skin). Or finisher squeezed too much mud out from under the tape. Just maybe the tape did not ''*BOND''* well.


Also what Mix said,old wall needed more screws at joint.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I always used to use 2 studs on drywall seems. Then a guy who come into plaster one day told me it's a bad idea as the studs will both react differently to moister and you will get cracks. They used to see it all the time. Since then I have just used one stud with zero issues.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> I always used to use 2 studs on drywall seems. Then a guy who come into plaster one day told me it's a bad idea as the studs will both react differently to moister and you will get cracks. They used to see it all the time. Since then I have just used one stud with zero issues.


And when you become familiar with "Butt Boards", you can use NO studs on joints for perfect, narrow, flat joints.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Willie T said:


> And when you become familiar with "Butt Boards", you can use NO studs on joints for perfect, narrow, flat joints.


I have seen them in our local drywall yard but never really thought to use them. I ain't had ever had issues with the standard way so no point in buying them.

Plus I never lay boards horizontal so never really have butt joints to deal with. I might try them next time I come across a job where I have some butt joints though. I'm sure they will help.


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## Darwin (Apr 7, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> I always thought this was the right way to remove a old opening in a wall, sister in some wood, cover with drywall, blend it in.
> 
> Are we doing this wrong and rolling the dice for something like this to happen?


That is the correct way. Obviously, the better solution would be to drywall the entire area -- the old and new area complete, so you can't see any repair job.

As long as you got the best drywall guy who can blend in proper and you can't discern that it's a repair with the naked eye (most can't blend flawlessly unless they work with drywall daily), it may crack in the seam, especially if the seam is not filled _before_ adding the mesh tape and more mud (a proper 3 stage feather out).


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

ApgarNJ said:


> I try to cut back to the between the jack stud and king stud, and so our new drywall is being screwed to the liner which is old and settled and won't move much. Hope that helps mike.


 
Makes perfect sense when you think about it. :thumbsup:

We went out and did the repair. I'm pretty sure the issue was a green/wet new stud being sistered to a 25 year old dried out one in the old door opening. Whether it was meshed and mudded not using setting compound or whether it would have made a difference either way, I can't be sure.

The following day we had a morning meeting and went over the new procedure for anytime flats are to be butted and no more sistering studs to old studs, from now on, always cut back to split the old stud and fasten there. It only makes sense. Learn something everyday, and of course learning the hard way is the only way I learn it seems.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Yep, makes perfect sense ApgarNJ*.* :thumbsup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:w00t: Finley's back in the house!!!


...and I didn't see it for this long.


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