# Soft finish on water based poly. HELP!



## Burkman (Oct 14, 2012)

My flooring guy did a great job for me on my floors but the finish is still soft. You can scratch it with your finger nails and furniture destroys it. He used three coats of water based polyurethane and sanded in between. Any ideas? 

I apologize if this has been addressed in another post but I can't find anything. Thanks.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Need more than that. What was the name brand and name of the finish? What were the conditions like when it was applied?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Probably applied too thickly. Water-based finishes cure very quickly if applied thinly, and take a long, long, time - weeks maybe, if applied too thickly. Did you see him apply 3 coats, or is there a chance he just slobbered on one thick coat?


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Sounds like off the self home depot parks pro finisher or similar. The single components can be iffy. Basic Emulsion has held up well in my home. Glitsa infinity is garbage. Traffic is good. And parks, well lets just say its more water than base.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

was it over a stain?

if so , stain wasnt dry enough..

other cause if natural is coats applied too quickly before prior dry.

last ..**** finish..


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Need more info. All advice above is good. 

My $.02 - Is it catalized? Then not enough 'Part B'


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## Burkman (Oct 14, 2012)

My guy used Varathane Water Based Poly, Satin Finish, Heavy Use Formula from Lowes. We did have the heat on in this house (electric heat pump, dry heat, probably 65 degrees on average). The soft finish is ONLY over the stained floors. The unstained floors are fine. I did watch him apply all three coats and they were thin.

Here is what he used:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Varathan...ane-2-Pack-200241H/202057137?N=5yc1vZaqstZ641

Thanks so much guys! My flooring guy is good but he is too busy right now to get out and look at it.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Burkman said:


> My guy used Varathane Water Based Poly, Satin Finish, Heavy Use Formula from Lowes. We did have the heat on in this house (electric heat pump, dry heat, probably 65 degrees on average). The soft finish is ONLY over the stained floors. The unstained floors are fine. I did watch him apply all three coats and they were thin.
> 
> Here is what he used:
> 
> ...



Does not compute. The Varathane is fine, I've used it a few times. Sounds like he applied the first coat w/o letting the stain dry.


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## Burkman (Oct 14, 2012)

So I guess my question is, regardless of the cause, what is the cure? gulp... I do recall thinking that the stain was still awfully tacky when he did the first coat of poly.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

there is no bond then..if the stain was tacky then it was a no go for waterbase. the job needs to be sanded.

you may be able to pull that off with an oil finish, but no way water.

Minwax stains need at least 2 day dry time before attempting a strait water application over it..we have actually given 3 and stopped using it due to this.

Now only use Dura seal fast dry formula.

we allow it to dry over night and no issue.

If we feel a little antsy about it, we will seal with universal sealer first then apply the finishes.

1) you are never too busy to to address a customers concern. that Is BS. if there is an issue you go assess and discuss it and offer remedy.

2) the finish is garbage..no pro uses this crap
Varathane now has a pro finish line but really haven't heard anything good about it.


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## D.E.P.S. (Aug 3, 2013)

Stain needs to completely dried before applying the poly coat. If you apply poly over tacky stain.........it will never lock into the wood. The poly cooked off before the stain dried..........hence the lack of adhesion.


Resand and start over.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

D.E.P.S. said:


> Stain needs to completely dried before applying the poly coat. If you apply poly over tacky stain.........it will never lock into the wood. The poly cooked off before the stain dried..........hence the lack of adhesion.
> 
> 
> *Resand and start over.*


YUP! ^^^What they all said^^^

Stain wasn't dry and the waterbased isn't allowing the oils to evaporate. It ain't Rocket Surgery - Oil and water don't mix. Sucks for you. It MIGHT dry out over time, but I doubt it.

That's why I don't use Minwax if I'm doing a water finish. Use DuraSeal next time.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

James, I've used varathane twice with no issues, what problems have you seen?


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

And I'd like to add -


Burkman said:


> My flooring guy is good but he is too busy right now to get out and look at it.


Uh, no. He's NOT. He's a _DUMBASS_ who needs to get out there RIGHT NOW and FIX IT. JM2C.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

jhark123 said:


> James, I've used varathane twice with no issues, what problems have you seen?


its not a matter of seeing problems as much as realizing its less than a professional application and if you can stop at a local paint store to by finish for your floor job, its quite hackish.

the finish is not durable enough to offer a reasonable quality job by professional standards/

none of our floor houses here in NJ carry a "varathane " product.,

the guys i first started in the biz with would do this..pick up varathane or carver tripp water base finishes and give a customer garbage

granted back in the day when water base was fresh and new and not a popular choice with the selection of quality available today..it was still an amateur decision.


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

That is quite the illogical reasoning you are using there. The source of purchase does not have a logical impact on the product itself. I was curious, so I looked up the solids % of a few water-borne products:

Varathane - 28.6%
Bona Mega - 30%
Bona Traffic - 34%
Basic Hydroline Plus - 28%

So, there may be better coatings, but Varathane is in there as far as solids.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I used Varathane when I was a kid, would buy it at Ernst and use it on furniture. I never thought it worked very good but it was the only thing I knew existed, I always thought it looked like a thick goop and not real professional. I haven't used Varathane in about 25 years so I'm sure it's changed since then. But if you're going to purchase stuff at Home Depot or Lowes then you better know exactly what you're looking for so you don't end up buying crap. Home Depot or Lowes will do their purchasing from anywhere regardless of quality, where as a specialized building supply store will take their time and select stuff that works. 

But it sounds like your flooring guy didn't know how to read the directions on the label, drying time is listed on every paint, stain, and varnish. I know it's hard to find competent flooring guys that's why I usually do it myself. If I'm going to hire someone, I'm real particular, ask lots of questions, look at references, preferably someone I've used before. Have you tried calling the tech support to Varathane about the problem?


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I used Varathane when I was a kid, would buy it at Ernst and use it on furniture. I never thought it worked very good but it was the only thing I knew existed, I always thought it looked like a thick goop and not real professional. I haven't used Varathane in about 25 years so I'm sure it's changed since then. But if you're going to purchase stuff at Home Depot or Lowes then you better know exactly what you're looking for so you don't end up buying crap. *Home Depot or Lowes will do their purchasing from anywhere regardless of quality, where as a specialized building supply store will take their time and select stuff that works.
> *
> But it sounds like your flooring guy didn't know how to read the directions on the label, drying time is listed on every paint, stain, and varnish. I know it's hard to find competent flooring guys that's why I usually do it myself. If I'm going to hire someone, I'm real particular, ask lots of questions, look at references, preferably someone I've used before. Have you tried calling the tech support to Varathane about the problem?


Is this a fact, or something you pulled out of your



hat?


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

m1911 said:


> Is this a fact, or something you pulled out of your hat?


 something I figured out. I've never worked for them but I worked for a framing outfit which was also a building supply store so I have an idea of how stores like that do their purchasing.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

jhark123 said:


> That is quite the illogical reasoning you are using there. The source of purchase does not have a logical impact on the product itself. I was curious, so I looked up the solids % of a few water-borne products:
> 
> Varathane - 28.6%
> Bona Mega - 30%
> ...



its not illogical.

amateur products are sold at box , hardware and paint stores.
professional floor finishes can not be purchased like that..its either through a distributor or online floor supply.

solids do not the finish make.

i haven't used their new nano shield pro finish line, but I did get a call a while back from someone who recently had it done and he complaint wa sit scratched so easily.

that was the first I heard of the finish..


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