# natural stone masonry wall systems



## wesmartyn (Apr 8, 2007)

The post about drystack walls has me wondering about masonry wall systems in front of structural wood framing. I ALWAYS build cavity walls with weeping systems. I've seen many masons fill the cavity with mortar right against the moisture barrier, especially with 5 point. 

Any opinions on this?

With a drystack look wall, since there isn't any mortar in the bed joint, (whether the cavity was filled or not), it would seem like a very weak way of building.


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

There are weeping systems you can buy that allow you to backfill the stone and still maintain a cavity. I offer this to customers, but since the stonework is very expensive already, they generally do not go for it. In contrast to some of the methods explained here, this is how I do it. I lay a mortar bed that is very thin (about 1/4") and I keep it back from the face about 1.5". When I set the stone, it squeezes to within 3/4" from the face. I then strike the joints with a tuckpointing trowel to remove mortar to a consistent depth and highlight shadows. I fill behind the stones solid. This is not to adhere them to the wall. You can't adhere a 6" veneer to anything. The reason is because my fieldstone is generally supplied in 3-5" thickness. Setting a 5" stone over a 3" stone is sketchy at best. The other rules I use are.
Discard any stones that are 1/2 or less of veneer thickness (or chop them up to be laid the other way).
When setting the thinner stones that are usable, I back them up with mortar and solid stone (1-2" thickness) that can carry the weight.
Any stone that goes into the wall must be able to sit up on the wall by itself. (Do not knife edge pieces to get a tight fit. Do not rely on your mortar or shims to hold pieces in place.)
In addition to this I follow traditional rules of bonding (2 over 1).
Above all, be honest in your work.


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## master mason (Feb 9, 2008)

wesmartyn said:


> The post about drystack walls has me wondering about masonry wall systems in front of structural wood framing. I ALWAYS build cavity walls with weeping systems. I've seen many masons fill the cavity with mortar right against the moisture barrier, especially with 5 point.
> 
> Any opinions on this?
> 
> With a drystack look wall, since there isn't any mortar in the bed joint, (whether the cavity was filled or not), it would seem like a very weak way of building.


Westmartyn, a drystack stone wall if built properly will have a cavity for drainage and be as strong as any other stone veneer wall system.Here's how.Take a 1" piece of Dow blue board insulation and breake it at the 16" score.Lay it up against the framing at the base of the wall continuously across veneer.lay your dry stack in front of the blue board with cotton sash cord as weep holes every 16''-20" across the base of wall.If the brick shelf is below grade,then fillsolid behind stone to about 6" above grade and then start the blue board and weep rope.Lay your stone filling behind up against the blue board.When you get to the top of the bb slide your bb up and out, install wallties horizontally every stud, put in your bb and repeat all the way up the wall. Be carefull not to create a straight line at the bb,walltie height.


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

good luck with that...:thumbsup:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Both work. One is a veneer system and the other is a solid masonry wall. The problems begin when you attempt a solid masonry system using veneer materials.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

I use this stuff over felt. Very happy with the results.
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...nage+panels&start=40&gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&sa=N


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> Both work. One is a veneer system and the other is a solid masonry wall. The problems begin when you attempt a solid masonry system using veneer materials.


Please explain, I thought we were talking about one thing. (full thickness veneer)


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## wesmartyn (Apr 8, 2007)

Solid masonry walls used to be 2 or 3 wythes thick on buildings. That mass would keep moisture from getting to the inside. What keeps moisture off the structure when you backfill one wyth of masonry solid though?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

What he said. 8" to 12" of solid masonry is fine. 4" of masonry tight to wood sheathing is not.


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## wesmartyn (Apr 8, 2007)

What does that stuff end up costing CJ?


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

I see, you are comparing structural masonry to a veneer. I thought you were talking about thin vs. thick veneer. We generally build ours in 6-8" thickness. 4" is too thin for dealing with irregular fieldstone. We use 30# felt over tyvek. This is considered ok for stucco so it should be good for 6" stone. The drainage plane systems like the picture above are a better solution. I find it silly (in the big picture) to even be doing brick or stone veneers over stick framing. Thus my interest in AAC. In the end, though, we do what pays the bills within reason.


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## wesmartyn (Apr 8, 2007)

What is AAC?


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

I don't know if I answered your question westmartyn. If you check out the buildingscience.com, they explain that one layer of building paper plus one of vapor barrier will give a minimal air gap that will facilitate drainage etc. However, this kind of thing is dependent on climate. Ideally you would be given plans that detailed this as a whole strategy for any particular building. As it stands, though, we work with what we're given. We try to upsell to the drainage plane material and use the doubled paper/vaporbarrier as a minimum.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Multiple Guess:

Advanced Audio Coding
American Alpine Club
Augmentative and Alternative Communication
Appalachian Athletic Conference
autoclaved aerated concrete (ding ding ding) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerated_autoclaved_concrete


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

autoclaved aerated concrete. It's essentially a framing system that uses lightweight solid block. I see it as the closest modern thing to structural stonework. You can also carve it.:thumbsup:


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