# new employee dilemma



## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

He wants to be paid ahead so he can stiff you. Its clear he thinks YOU owe him. Never ever advance money to an employee; if they have to ask they dont have their house in order in the first place. Organized adults go to the bank if they need a loan.

Fire him.


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## tkrrox (May 15, 2010)

He didn't want an advance as much as he just wanted to get paid for the days he has already worked. I had a sit down with him this morning and laid it out. I told him if he wanted/needed why wasn't he putting in 40hr weeks??? Then I told him as far as I'm concerned he is on strike 2. One more and he is out. 

I swear I have gone through 4 guys and they all lack responsibility or drive.


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## AccurateCut (Mar 20, 2015)

i just went through this and wished him luck at Mc D s moppin the floor


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## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

I have the same problem, it is not easy not at all to find good employees. They all have baggage, guy once told me if you have employees you have employee problems.
See if you can get a hold on his issues and see if they are worth dealing and managing with in return for his good qualities. 
I have a guy 6 years with me that I have to treat like a child. 
However I know for a fact that he would never even contemplate putting anything in his pocket and he does good work although slow.


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## Builders Inc. (Feb 24, 2015)

Yeah I would have replied with EXCUSE ME? I want you to know who YOUR talking to. The guy who used to sign your paychecks...


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## Builders Inc. (Feb 24, 2015)

I had an older guy 53 when I was 33 and we were doing production framing, had a cut man, had a guy building headers and two banging walls, he was one of those. He came to his window and laid his gun down after I told them to keep moving and your headers are on the way. He said I can do my headers, I know how. I said I know you know how but I already have some one on it so just keep that gun moving. He said look you don't have to talk to me like that and to just let him do his work. I said I'm delegating responsibilities to each worker so every task will come together at the same time, I know each workers speeds and capabilities. I'm calling the shots. 
He walked off the job. I'm pretty lenient but when the show is rolling at a fast pace, we are fast. Everyone has their own task and it comes together like clock work. I don't know how others can't see that. Yes it can be frustrating. But your the shot caller, not your help. It's your money on the line. 


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

Anderson said:


> I have the same problem, it is not easy not at all to find good employees. They all have baggage, guy once told me if you have employees you have employee problems.
> See if you can get a hold on his issues and see if they are worth dealing and managing with in return for his good qualities.
> I have a guy 6 years with me that I have to treat like a child.
> However I know for a fact that he would never even contemplate putting anything in his pocket and he does good work although slow.


I know a guy that's a totally pain in the ass diva. Slow, whiney, skips work about once a week. Refuses to shingle roofs, always finds a way of sticking it on someone else. No one on his crew likes him. 
But he does great work, doesn't need supervision, and does it the way his boss wants.

His job is secure.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

> New Employee Dilema


No dilemma here.
You're fired!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

How do you have an employee who is a GC you 1099? Sounds like you are confused on how a business runs and are reaping the what you sowed.

The first guy is either an employee or a sub (1099).

Second, you need to manage your employee(s). Never let them manage you. His attitude is a direct reflection of your management. At least that's how I see it. With that said, it's time to say Adios. You need to find your sack and fire this guy. There shouldn't even be a question.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

"Do you know who you're talking to?!"

Yeah, I'm talking to the guy that used to work for me. I'll be mailing your last check to you next week.

Based upon what you shared in your first post it sounds like the guy is good at what he does as a result of being praised for his work more so than the personal pride and satisfaction that comes with doing a good job. Those who work for praise are more interested in themselves vs. those who take personal pride in their work, thus the latter of the two are much harder workers.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> How do you have an employee who is a GC you 1099? ...


Way I read it is he has his B license (general contractor) here in California yet works as a sub for the O.P.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Way I read it is he has his B license (general contractor) here in California yet works as a sub for the O.P.


Which is perfectly legal. Framing contractors do it all the time. In fact most framing subs around here are "B" licensed. Which is a critical license.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Way I read it is he has his B license (general contractor) here in California yet works as a sub for the O.P.


Which is perfectly legal. Framing contractors do it all the time. In fact most framing subs around here are "B" licensed. Which is a critical license.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Which is perfectly legal. Framing contractors do it all the time. In fact most framing subs around here are "B" licensed. Which is a critical license.


Of course, tkrrox does refer to the 1099 guy as "my other employee." Maybe that's what Rob noticed.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I picked up on the 1099 employee also. I didn't realize California had different laws. Of course the 1099 is an IRS thing. Not a state thing. There are alot of people that do it everywhere, but that doesn't mean the IRS agrees with it.

I have no clue on how things are done in California. I know in Missouri, it wouldn't fly.


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## Lunicy (Dec 24, 2004)

Send him packing. He is disrespectful. How does he talk to the customer?


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

tedanderson said:


> "Do you know who you're talking to?!"
> 
> Yeah, I'm talking to the guy that used to work for me. I'll be mailing your last check to you next week.
> 
> Based upon what you shared in your first post it sounds like the guy is good at what he does as a result of being praised for his work more so than the personal pride and satisfaction that comes with doing a good job. Those who work for praise are more interested in themselves vs. those who take personal pride in their work, thus the latter of the two are much harder workers.


This reminded me of a guy who worked for me. When given a dirty job to do once, he exclaimed, "That's not my job", to which I replied, "If I ever hear you say that to me again, it won't be your job because you will no longer work here"


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Way I read it is he has his B license (general contractor) here in California yet works as a sub for the O.P.


But he called him his employee.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I agree that there are plenty of warning signs here but I also noticed that you said you've only been on the site 3 times in the past two weeks. That's pretty much guaranteed to cause problems with a new employee. Something to think about for the next hire.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Warren said:


> This reminded me of a guy who worked for me. When given a dirty job to do once, he exclaimed, "That's not my job"


People are really afraid to say that to me because my philosophy is that if they won't do it, I've got access to 10 other guys who will. I won't immediately fire the guy but I will gradually slide in his replacement to where I no longer have need for him. Rather than saying "You're fired!" the conversation becomes, "I'd really like for you to keep working for me but there just isn't anything for you to do." If the guy has any self respect that tends to invoke a response of, "Well.. wait- Isn't there something that I can clean up or a ditch I can dig?"

I had a guy like that who was disgruntled because he wanted to be the big-shot programmer for the automation systems that we install but we were still in the rough-in stage. So I told Scooter that we have to get into the trenches and pull this wire and drill holes. 

At the time I was working on a govt office renovation. It was a very nasty job. The site was so dirty that you couldn't even walk through it without a dust mask. After the second day, Scooter went to another employee looking for someone to share in his misery. Later the other employee told me that Scooter said, "I don't know what the heck Ted is doing! He needs to find the kinds of jobs that I do!":blink:

So.... Not only do you think I'm obligated to give you a job, but also you think that I am obligated to custom tailor the position to meet your desires. Well.. long story short, I brought the guy back in 2 months later to get him to work his magic. I discovered that the guy didn't know ANYTHING about programming. I wasn't surprised when he said that my system was "broken" and I was using the wrong kind of software and I need to upgrade to Windows 7.

I should have fired him on the spot but instead I called the tech support line and had them walk us through the whole thing..and we got it working! Being too proud to admit your shortcomings is one thing but refusing to call the tech support people for help is completely inexcusable. 

Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent like that but I later learned that you just gotta get rid of people like that from the very beginning. They often do more harm than good.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

tkrrox said:


> Yes I am torn. Half wants to send him packing half wants to keep him and have another hand to tackle the growing amount of work I am facing.
> 
> I do think I need to be on the job more and mold him to the way I need him though.


His bad attitude is no excuse for your lack of adequate planning or leadership... if things are backing up, that doesn't mean "here, deal with this while I try to catch up" and you show up every once in a while... you still need to manage YOUR team... you set expectations for your company... 

Not being around can easily come across as you don't really care about what's going on, and attitudes can form from it from the vacuum, which can be based on previous work experience with someone else or their own self-employment... not saying this is the case here, or even that it's justified, but most definitely an issue...

You've had the talk with him, now walk the walk and be visible... and if he's still having issues replace him, but IMHO, based on the description of your schedule backing up with the two guys you have now, it's in your best interest to get his potential replacement or potential co-worker in place now... you don't want to end up with a situation where your schedule is backed up, you have to fire the guy because things don't change or get worse and have it compound the issue while you look for someone else...

Best of luck... 8^)


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

who gives a chit if he's an employee or sub. he's got attidude that no one has or want to make time. your call.... 1 more chance with rules in place. fire him. or get on your jobs more which i can understand is difficult when business is booming. i was in same boat a while back. once the respect goes the quality goes and you'll wind up re-working a lot of chit. get rid of the fkr.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

RangoWA said:


> Then it sounds like you are trying to treat him like an employee when he isn't. That would bother me too.


I think that guy isn't the problem. It's the other guy. 

The reason it matters CityDecks is the first guy is actually an employee. The majority of his work is through the OP. He doesn't dictate his own hours. I would guess he's paid hourly.

This all goes to the point that has been made before. Just because you are good at your trade doesn't mean you are good at business. Being a good tradesmen and even sales doesn't mean that you know how to manage people. I have a hard time in this area but have learned that business is business and I need to treat it like a business and not rule by emotion.


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I think that guy isn't the problem. It's the other guy.
> 
> The reason it matters CityDecks is the first guy is actually an employee. The majority of his work is through the OP. He doesn't dictate his own hours. I would guess he's paid hourly.
> 
> This all goes to the point that has been made before. Just because you are good at your trade doesn't mean you are good at business. Being a good tradesmen and even sales doesn't mean that you know how to manage people. I have a hard time in this area but have learned that business is business and I need to treat it like a business and not rule by emotion.


i here where your coming from. my point of doesn't matter if it was ee or sub. it's the lack of respect attitude an wanting money before payday and yes he should be on the job more.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I think that guy isn't the problem. It's the other guy.
> 
> The reason it matters CityDecks is the first guy is actually an employee. The majority of his work is through the OP. He doesn't dictate his own hours. I would guess he's paid hourly.
> 
> This all goes to the point that has been made before. Just because you are good at your trade doesn't mean you are good at business. Being a good tradesmen and even sales doesn't mean that you know how to manage people. I have a hard time in this area but have learned that business is business and I need to treat it like a business and not rule by emotion.


I'm not making excuses for bad behavior. Just that if you have a sub and you treat them as an employee it's likely to come to a head at some point. If it's a sub he should know how to do the job. Around here, there are people looking for employees but want them to have their own tools, insurance, license, etc. and dictate the pay.


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## tkrrox (May 15, 2010)

RangoWA said:


> Then it sounds like you are trying to treat him like an employee when he isn't. That would bother me too.



I think you are misunderstanding this. I have no problem with the guy who has the license. We have worked together for years and have a great relationship. 

The new hire is an employee. On payroll workmen comp etc.


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## tkrrox (May 15, 2010)

As far as being on a job more. I have never worked for a contractor that was on a job more than once or twice a week. I was put under the super and trained by them not the contractor. Now yes usually I am on site more but I had 2 sets of plans that I had to get out. I was actually trained/taught by the licensed guy that is working for me.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

tkrrox said:


> I think you are misunderstanding this. I have no problem with the guy who has the license. We have worked together for years and have a great relationship.
> 
> The new hire is an employee. On payroll workmen comp etc.


Oh, he wants to be paid and treated like the other guy, the subcontractor. Sounds like he needs to be someone else's problem.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Take the guy out to dinner, give him a raise, and offer him a company vehicle. That should solve all of your problems.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

..don't forget the gas card..:thumbsup:


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