# Homeowner helping, what can go wrong?



## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Oops
Tried to save a few dollars, and he killed himself

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/...g_with_saw-like_tool_r.html#incart_river_home


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

What a shame, it's easy to underestimate just how powerful those grinders are.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

WOW! The joke on Pirate 4x4 was always calling them "Spinning Wheels of Death". Yet it became reality for this guy. 

Must have been a large pipe and a large grinder. I just can't imagine cutting that deep with a 4.5".

More than a few people have caught their shirts in a grinder and cut their bellies up, which is why a deadman's switch is preferable. I learned from others to ALWAYS wear a full face shield.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Wow that's awful. So sad. I've met homeowners that like to be hands on, not being cheap, but are interested in the process and want to help out and learn. Crappy way to go.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Peter_C said:


> WOW! The joke on Pirate 4x4 was always calling them "Spinning Wheels of Death". Yet it became reality for this guy.
> 
> Must have been a large pipe and a large grinder. I just can't imagine cutting that deep with a 4.5".
> 
> More than a few people have caught their shirts in a grinder and cut their bellies up, which is why a deadman's switch is preferable. I learned from others to ALWAYS wear a full face shield.


Just cut an inch or so to reach a major artery. The leg has some big'uns that you would bleed out quickly.


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

All of a sudden my angle grinder accident seems like it could have been allot worse.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Pray for the family, then pray again for the contractor:

http://louisianarecord.com/stories/...dder-at-own-home-sues-contractor-for-injuries


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

A tragic story that also makes you think twice about a few things. Yikes.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

TV makes it all look so easy


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## antonioooooooo (Mar 8, 2010)

That'll teach em.


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

antonioooooooo said:


> That'll teach em.


That's somebody's husband/father/brother you *******. The guy wasn't doing anything inherently evil. He was just trying to work on his own house. Definitely did _not_ deserve to die.

Prayers to the family and contractor.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

Caught my knuckle with an 8" disk earlier this year. It sure doesn't take much to mess yourself up with one of those. I didn't even feel it at first, it happened so fast.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

One thing about all the angle grinders I've used - you pretty much turn them on and keep them on. You can drop it and it still runs.


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## antonioooooooo (Mar 8, 2010)

Sorry, no sympathy. I don't involve myself in work I have no business attempting. Especially very dangerous. Freak accidents, a bit different. Natural selection, sorry. Not going to attempt a backflip on a motocross bike because it pays well.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

He's gonna win a Darwin Award.


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

antonioooooooo said:


> Sorry, no sympathy. I don't involve myself in work I have no business attempting. Especially very dangerous. Freak accidents, a bit different. Natural selection, sorry. Not going to attempt a backflip on a motocross bike because it pays well.


The dangers of backflipping on a motorcycle are exponentially more obvious than cutting something with a handheld grinder. Contractor should've known better as someone who (should be) aware of the dangers.

Of course, contractor likely already feels bad enough, and may have wrongfully assumed HO knew how to safely operate a grinder.


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

Leo G said:


> He's gonna win a Darwin Award.


Again, not sure how an accident with a tool that is _deceptively_ dangerous equals stupidity.

You've never been in a situation where a less than obvious danger was present that you weren't aware of?

Yes it should never have happened, but it's not like the guy tried to use the grinder to do is own dental work or something. It was an accident and an unfortunate one.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Leo G said:


> He's gonna win a Darwin Award.


It's always somebody different.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Another one of those dangerous tools that's hard to comprehend. Not unlike chainsaws (kickback), table saws, braking on wet downgrades, driving on wet roads just below freezing, etc. Any near miss goes a long way towards experience, and maybe he didn't have any of that wisdom. (I gained a LOT of driving "widsom" between 16 and 18 years of age. :whistling)


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

thehockeydman said:


> Again, not sure how an accident with a tool that is _deceptively_ dangerous equals stupidity.
> 
> You've never been in a situation where a less than obvious danger was present that you weren't aware of?
> 
> Yes it should never have happened, but it's not like the guy tried to use the grinder to do is own dental work or something. It was an accident and an unfortunate one.


I used a Dremel to deal with a hangnail on my toe.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

False confidence fueled by ego and pride, not by experience and knowledge.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I don't get the necessity to bring up ego and pride. Why?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Holy Crap.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Wasn't there a guy on here who had a chunk of carborundum blade break off and lodge into his thigh? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> I don't get the necessity to bring up ego and pride. Why?


Because it's part of the equation. It's not a bad thing, but it can be when you let it override common sense or your intellect.

It is the force that gives one confidence when there is no logical reason for them to have it.

I like to get to the root of a cause. You say simple confidence, but confidence is a result of a cause. What causes confidence? At the base confidence is either based in sound knowledge and experience or it's a false confidence borne of ego or pride. It tells us that despite what our common sense is screaming that we can move forward when we shouldn't.

You stated the guy simply had confidence. I don't disagree, otherwise he wouldn't have attempted the cut. I am just looking at what caused the false confidence. He obviously couldn't handle the situation.

We have all done stupid things. And I would wager that while doing that stupid thing had a close call. But instead of correcting what caused the close call we went right back to doing it the same way.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Holy Crap.


:laughing:

You're referring to this discussion, right?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yes. Stuff happens. 

People try things all the time they haven't done before. Accidents happen.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree that accidents happen, but they happen for a reason. In my opinion most accidents are stupid accidents that could have been easily avoided. Some guys just get all bent out of shape when I use the word stupid.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I never made any statements to the persons overall intelligence, but when an accident is avoidable, it was committed by someone being stupid. They allowed ego and pride to rule the day. They didn't use common sense.


This is definitely not true. Sometimes all it takes is being tired, or something distracting you or....


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

I worked for an old safety guy that always said "There's no such thing as accidents..."


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

JR Shepstone said:


> I worked for an old safety guy that always said "There's no such thing as accidents..."


Then he wasn't that old.

There are guys on here who tell me you reach a certain age when you can't trust your farts to be just...farts.

....and those are called accidents.:whistling


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

That does suck and it reminded me of a close call years ago. Was doing a quick cut with the circular while on my knees for foundation trim and it kicked back halfway through and the only reason Im alive is the blade guard came down just in time and that is what hit my chest instead of the blade. Freaky stuff.


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Then he wasn't that old.
> 
> There are guys on here who tell me you reach a certain age when you can't trust your farts to be just...farts.
> 
> ....and those are called accidents.:whistling


Ehhh, he seemed to be one of those guys that would plan on sh!tting his pants. 

And yes, it's true, as you get older, never trust a fart, and never waste a boner.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

hdavis said:


> This is definitely not true. Sometimes all it takes is being tired, or something distracting you or....


Operating something when tired or distracted is stupid and does apply. Your ego says push forward and get it done when your body is telling you the opposite.

Allowing yourself to be distracted isn't an excuse. Being tired is not either.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

I betcha he was propping the pipe up on his leg, kneeling down on the other knee. Then as the cutoff came loose, it bound the blade and kicked it back into his thigh.
It's something I'm sure we've all done before, but still stupid.


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## antonioooooooo (Mar 8, 2010)

"..and if you make it through this task Mr.Wong, you can save even more money doing this asbestos removal."


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

More like...after you left last night I went ahead and cut that pipe and removed the insulation from the pipes. How much will you take off my bill now?


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I refuse to allow an HO to do anything at all. I also believe most accidents are user error rather than a true accident. I've always said this about car accidents, they really aren't accidents someone phucked up.


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## russellremodel (Apr 24, 2015)

This is from a diy show. This guy came close to losing more than his shirt.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

russellremodel said:


> https://youtu.be/qUjgmSh9bmE
> 
> This is from a diy show. This guy came close to losing more than his shirt.


Now that's what I call stupid.


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## russellremodel (Apr 24, 2015)

Sometimes i think these home improvement shows give homeowners to much confidence. They see a bathroom being redone, then think "thats so easy i can do mine". Then they go buy a circular saw and dont realize how dangerous they can be.


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## antonioooooooo (Mar 8, 2010)

avenge said:


> I guess that puts me in the don't speak to me category because I'll insult anyone who dies from their own stupidity. Actually I wish death upon anyone who's stupid.


Very true. I've been injured by other people's stupidity. One guy accidentally bump firing the gun and caught me one time. I guess it could be considered my fault because I was stupid enough to be working beside him after it kept happening. This guy would nearly kill himself with any job you gave him.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

russellremodel said:


> Sometimes i think these home improvement shows give homeowners to much confidence. They see a bathroom being redone, then think "thats so easy i can do mine". Then they go buy a circular saw and dont realize how dangerous they can be.


I am kinda tired of the whole HGTV caused this or that mentality from contractors. I don't believe that it gives them a false sense of security. Most know the dangers of power tools, but, as I have stated, let their ego get in the way. Most think that they are handier than they are, but are too afraid to admit because of that one neighbor who actually can do it all.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

antonioooooooo said:


> Very true. I've been injured by other people's stupidity. One guy accidentally bump firing the gun and caught me one time. I guess it could be considered my fault because I was stupid enough to be working beside him after it kept happening. This guy would nearly kill himself with any job you gave him.


When someone is operating a nail gun unsafely, you better believe that I stay away. I don't see it much different than a real gun.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

russellremodel said:


> Sometimes i think these home improvement shows give homeowners to much confidence. They see a bathroom being redone, then think "thats so easy i can do mine". Then they go buy a circular saw and dont realize how dangerous they can be.


YES! And some watch a hack wanna be Carpenter complete a kitchen remodel in one day. Then these idiots get to thinking they can have a custom home turn keyed in a Month !!  


Those one day/one week turn over shows turn my stomach !!


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Youngin' said:


> Can't argue with that.


Omg! That screenshot just made my Christmas!


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

avenge said:


> I guess that puts me in the don't speak to me category because I'll insult anyone who dies from their own stupidity. Actually I wish death upon anyone who's stupid.


Is that some kind of oddball humor or are you serious?


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

SectorSecurity said:


> Omg! That screenshot just made my Christmas!


When you read about the story it's even more hilarious, they stuck a toy onto a sawzall blade and then attempted to use it.

You'd think the term sawzall would have made them realize that it was a bad idea. Makes you cringe when you think about what they must of felt like.

It also makes you cringe when you realize that they make toy attachments for a sawzall.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

SectorSecurity said:


> Omg! That screenshot just made my Christmas!


New idea for the bedroom? :whistling


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

russellremodel said:


> Sometimes i think these home improvement shows give homeowners to much confidence. They see a bathroom being redone, then think "thats so easy i can do mine". Then they go buy a circular saw and dont realize how dangerous they can be.



I think the only thing I have more hate for is the "pallet art" wave that is sweeping Pinterest.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> When someone is operating a nail gun unsafely, you better believe that I stay away. I don't see it much different than a real gun.


I make sure that I'm out of the line of fire even if I trust the guy.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

SamM said:


> I make sure that I'm out of the line of fire even if I trust the guy.


I stay out of the line of fire as well, but often you are working side by side...if they are being a douche about safety I go to the other side of the job.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

blacktop said:


> YES! And some watch a hack wanna be Carpenter complete a kitchen remodel in one day. Then these idiots get to thinking they can have a custom home turn keyed in a Month !!
> 
> 
> Those one day/one week turn over shows turn my stomach !!


I discuss schedule and time lines on the initial visit. It's a notion that is easily overcome.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> Is that some kind of oddball humor or are you serious?


Humorous, not at all. Stupidity is rampant, we need to come up with a system to test if someone will become an idiot. Either abort them or execute them when born, doesn't matter to me.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I discuss schedule and time lines on the initial visit. It's a notion that is easily overcome.


But not when your a G/C building a home . H/Os don't understand weather ! Or the fact that the subs need to keep busy. If you ain't ready ! We gotta go somewhere !


Back in July nobody gave a **** about Jesus !!!! 
But come September ? :whistling That's a different story!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

avenge said:


> Humorous, not at all. Stupidity is rampant, we need to come up with a system to test if someone will become an idiot. Either abort them or execute them when born, doesn't matter to me.


I'm ****ed !!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

blacktop said:


> But not when your a G/C building a home . H/Os don't understand weather ! Or the fact that the subs need to keep busy. If you ain't ready ! We gotta go somewhere !
> 
> 
> Back in July nobody gave a **** about Jesus !!!!
> But come September ? :whistling That's a different story!


That's an easily remedied situation of setting expectations and maintaining communication.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That's an easily remedied situation of setting expectations and maintaining communication.


yes .. Like one G/C told me recently . I will build your home! But I will not give you a completion date . But this same guy has 4 Homes going at once with H/Os at his throat !! It's not that easy !!


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

blacktop said:


> yes .. Like one G/C told me recently . I will build your home! But I will not give you a completion date . But this same guy has 4 Homes going at once with H/Os at his throat !! It's not that easy !!


We are pretty good at setting expectations, but without fail, every time they get all googly and giddy when the frame goes up and think its blowing and going :laughing: Just had the conversation with a client on Tuesday. I even tell them that prior to the start, and they still do it. Then about the time finishes start they want to creep they completion up. If i said december they want thanksgiving...... :laughing:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

blacktop said:


> yes .. Like one G/C told me recently . I will build your home! But I will not give you a completion date . But this same guy has 4 Homes going at once with H/Os at his throat !! * It's not that easy *!!


Yes it is.

But setting a schedule and adhering to it is what separates a great GC from a run of the mill guy...

GC you are working for is evidently over his head....


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That's an easily remedied situation of setting expectations and maintaining communication.


You may be better at handling your clients than I am with mine, i feel im at least competent, but doing a bathroom remodel or something like it on an occupied home, I say 6 weeks or whatever BEFORE we sign a contract for 8 weeks, no matter what, the little lady wants us gone right at about day 30. :whistling


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

.....


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

griz said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> But setting a schedule and adhering to it is what separates a great GC from a run of the mill guy...
> 
> GC you are working for is evidently over his head....


no ! that's not the case ! 



Coach !


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

.....


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

hdavis said:


> Kickback happens so fast, if you aren't set to control / avoid it before it happens, it's going to be too late. Cutting high like the guy in the video is just a stupendously bad idea.


That was the thought that crossed my mind when I saw that chainsaw kick back, 'Damn, that was FAST'! All of the power of that chainsaw got focused when he hit the tip on the chain link I guess.

It was on him before there was any time to react to it and he was really lucky it didn't cut off half his neck (like the accident mentioned by Brokehol).


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> You may be better at handling your clients than I am with mine, i feel im at least competent, but doing a bathroom remodel or something like it on an occupied home, I say 6 weeks or whatever BEFORE we sign a contract for 8 weeks, no matter what, the little lady wants us gone right at about day 30. :whistling


I send an update via email every week. I text and or chat every night about accomplishments of that day and expectations of the next.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

Rio said:


> That was the thought that crossed my mind when I saw that chainsaw kick back, 'Damn, that was FAST'! All of the power of that chainsaw got focused when he hit the tip on the chain link I guess.
> 
> It was on him before there was any time to react to it and he was really lucky it didn't cut off half his neck (like the accident mentioned by Brokehol).


I know a guy who had his saw kick on him. The brake stopped the chain, but the saw swung up so hard it hit him in the helmet and took a chunk out of his helmet.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Jaws said:


> We are pretty good at setting expectations, but without fail, every time they get all googly and giddy when the frame goes up and think its blowing and going :laughing:


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

Rio said:


> That was the thought that crossed my mind when I saw that chainsaw kick back, 'Damn, that was FAST'! All of the power of that chainsaw got focused when he hit the tip on the chain link I guess.
> 
> It was on him before there was any time to react to it and he was really lucky it didn't cut off half his neck (like the accident mentioned by Brokehol).


The tip of the chain is the most dangerous part of the saw.

You know the real reason why you're required to wear safety pants?

It's not to save your life or leg, it's to ensure your widow or you gets money from workers comp.

Not to mention limiting the damage a lawsuit can have on the saw manufacturer.

If the tip of that saw is what starts to cut into your leg you pants won't stop it.

I know guys who got cut by the tip of the saw. They're only alive/still have their leg because the saw ran out of gas.

A co worker was close enough to trigger the chain brake, or they had the presence of mind to leg go of the trigger and use the chain brake.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


>


So It never rains on the east coast ?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

blacktop said:


> So It never rains on the east coast ?


You didn't know it's always sunny in Philadelphia? :laughing:


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