# Faster hot water



## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

Ok ive been reading threads and researching the internet for days now and cant come up with the answers im looking for so im forced to start a new thread. 
Heres the thing. My 1700' home is on a slab, has 2 1/2 baths with 6 total sinks including kitchen. I want to run a hot water return line with pex from the attic located 40 gal NG wh about 50' through the attic down a partition to the farterest vanity. Then install a switch at every vanity (4 locations) and run wires from each switch to a pump at the wh. I know some pumps have timers to set at most used times but it would be nice to have the switches for those unplaned useses (most of the time) or both. I need to know if this idea is possible or worth it. If so, what do i need as far as pump, switches, wire, size-type pipe etc. I will prolly hire a plumber to do the actual install when the time comes cuz i cant sweat copper. But for now I just want to get the pipe and wires run. Im about to add another 12" or so of blown insulation to the attic and dont want to eff it up later crawling around on it. Dont want to get a plumber out here to start something I may never get around to finnishing either. Oh and I dont want to use a cold water return system with the thermal valve under the sink. I know that would be the easiest way but I dont like it. Thanks


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## JonM (Nov 1, 2007)

Do a google for "hot water recirculation system" you can make them start recirculating as soon as you switch the bathroom lights on.


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

Look into an on-demand hot water recirculator & yes you should hire a licensed plumber. 

You step into the bathroom, hit a button & it turns the recirc pump on for 30 seconds to a minute & voilla you have hot water - no timers, or anything else is required

All you are looking at is a pump either located in the vanity (or wall or close to the hot water heater) & a second run of pipe, from the hot water supply to the cold water intake on the water heater.


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## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

yea something like that. What I need to know first is what type/size of pipe to use and size/type wire to run first. Then after I get my insulation done If i have any money left I will have a plumber hook in up for me. No need for him to get in my insulation.


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## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

Sorry but you need to know exactly what you are putting in (or planning on purchasing), where it should go, what is there before you can place anything. 

The pipe would probably be 1/2, just like your supply - or maybe 3/4 if it is placed in front of all your fixtures before they branch out. The wire varies based on the unit, where it needs to be placed, etc... Is it in a basement and requires a low voltage line for the on / off - maybe an air line like they use on pools, hot tubs, water jets


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## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

SLSTech said:


> Sorry but you need to know exactly what you are putting in (or planning on purchasing), where it should go, what is there before you can place anything.


Yea I know. I was hoping to get some imput on what pump to use as well. Does not have to be top of the line nor do I need a timer.Thanks


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## Frank P (Nov 2, 2009)

Grundfos comfort plus http://www.grundfos.com/web/HomeUs.nsf/Webopslag/PAVA-56TMVA

No need for a return line.


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## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

Frank P said:


> Grundfos comfort plus http://www.grundfos.com/web/HomeUs.nsf/Webopslag/PAVA-56TMVA
> 
> No need for a return line.


Not using one of those was my point. Our water use is too unpredictable to use a timer. I have the means to install an return line. Just trying to find out what exactly I need as far as pump with no timers, timer relay-runs the pump for 30-90sec after momentary switch is pushed, and switches to operate manually only when I want to use hot water. No other time.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Maybe I'm just dense, but what's the point of only pre-circulating in the minute or so before using the water? Might as well just open the faucet and let it run. Unless you're really concerned about wasting that little bit of water.


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## Frank P (Nov 2, 2009)

Ok so no timer, still no return line...http://www.taco-hvac.com/en/products/D%27MAND%AE%20System/products.html?current_category=362


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## dlcj (Oct 1, 2007)

I like the taco system WITH the return line. It looks like it may be wirelessly controled at the points of use. Is that right? Any ides how much it cost for the hardware only? I can get return pipe and install done myself. As far as using the cold water supply for return I dont like the idea of possibly having a warm glass of water from the cold tap. If you have to wait for the cold to get cold then your back where you started (I know it will be a shorter time). Altough it dont concern me that much, some people in my family and also possible furture owners of this home have and could have issues from drinking from the hot water tank even after its cooled. Thats a whole nother thread already discused on CT. Another question is the return pipe itself. I was in the store yesterday and they had a 50' roll of red 1/2" pex and a 300' roll of white pex. I need about 60' so I did'nt buy yet. Whats the difference in red and white and whats the best for my app? As I said before my house is on a slab and of course plumbed with copper. I will run the return in the attic and down paritions.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Since it seems from your post that sinks are the issue, there is a less expensive way. Point of use electric flow through heaters. These are very small and can be mounted in a wall cavity. Though the cost of heating the water with electricity is higher than that of gas, you are only heating the water you use if you mount the unit under the sink. You will probably find it uses less energy $ and works better. 

These units are inexpensive and easy to install. The only possible issue is getting power to the point of use.


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## radimeto (Jan 14, 2010)

dlcj said:


> Ok ive been reading threads and researching the internet for days now and cant come up with the answers im looking for so im forced to start a new thread.
> Heres the thing. My 1700' home is on a slab, has 2 1/2 baths with 6 total sinks including kitchen. I want to run a hot water return line with pex from the attic located 40 gal NG wh about 50' through the attic down a partition to the farterest vanity. Then install a switch at every vanity (4 locations) and run wires from each switch to a pump at the wh. I know some pumps have timers to set at most used times but it would be nice to have the switches for those unplaned useses (most of the time) or both. I need to know if this idea is possible or worth it. If so, what do i need as far as pump, switches, wire, size-type pipe etc. I will prolly hire a plumber to do the actual install when the time comes cuz i cant sweat copper. But for now I just want to get the pipe and wires run. Im about to add another 12" or so of blown insulation to the attic and dont want to eff it up later crawling around on it. Dont want to get a plumber out here to start something I may never get around to finnishing either. Oh and I dont want to use a cold water return system with the thermal valve under the sink. I know that would be the easiest way but I dont like it. Thanks


For you aplication use Grundfos Hot Water Recirculation
Will seve you time to install and $ .Work great


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