# Windows 11



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Anyone installing it? Also what are the odds that QuickBooks Desktop 2019 will be compatible?


Mike.
*___*


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Why would you? For some time now, I've avoided upgrades simply because they're available--I want a compelling reason. And for quite a while, the only compelling reason has been others' adoption of the upgrades which forced me into it for compatibility reasons.

There are no revolutionary advances in usability that I've seen to make me want to change that policy.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

I did about 4 hours ago.

It looks like a rounded corner refresh with lots of color......kind of old apple-ish


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Do you think it'll run all the programs 10 ran?


Mike.
*___*


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I was on a preview build since July without issue. No problems with any programs.

You might have to turn on TPM in your bios.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Seems stable.....just a pain to find where everything is located and what has changed.


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

Calidecks said:


> Do you think it'll run all the programs 10 ran?
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


It will run everything that ran on win 10.
I think it still requires that TPM be enabled.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Oracle Virtual Box didn’t work.

everything else seems good


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## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Tinstaafl said:


> Why would you? For some time now, I've avoided upgrades simply because they're available--I want a compelling reason. And for quite a while, the only compelling reason has been others' adoption of the upgrades which forced me into it for compatibility reasons.
> 
> There are no revolutionary advances in usability that I've seen to make me want to change that policy.


You think you're bad, I'm still on Win7!! 
Bug free and I haven't had a virus in over 10 years.

May skip Win10 and go to Win11 if looks good.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Pompanosix said:


> I'm still on Win7!!


Ditto


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Pompanosix said:


> You think you're bad, I'm still on Win7!!
> Bug free and I haven't had a virus in over 10 years.
> 
> May skip Win10 and go to Win11 if looks good.


Same here. I'll say here until everything craps out and is no longer able to be compatible.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Leo G said:


> Same here. I'll say here until everything craps out and is no longer able to be compatible.


I'm at that point.
Can't get software to download for a printer.
By brothers Dell is supposed to be here this afternoon.
That will be a love/hate thing.
I know my way around 7 pretty well and am fast at getting done what needs to be done.
Not looking forward to 10.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I wrestled with Win 7 on my wife's computer, didn't care for it at all. When push came to shove, I went straight from Win 2K to Win 10 on my desktop. It's much friendlier than 7 from my POV.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The only thing I didn't like about Win7 is it didn't support DOS. Nothing does now. I have to run an emulator.

But I know the ins and outs of Win7 and refuse to willingly change over to the new spy system they have you all on now. Win7 is bad, Win10 is just like giving the mothership everything you do on that computer.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Leo G said:


> The only thing I didn't like about Win7 is it didn't support DOS. Nothing does now. I have to run an emulator.
> 
> But I know the ins and outs of Win7 and refuse to willingly change over to the new spy system they have you all on now. Win7 is bad, Win10 is just like giving the mothership everything you do on that computer.


I've decided to keep Win 7 up and running for as long as I can.....offline.
The new one will be for browsing.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I think 10 is better than 7 which simply sucks and so far 11 is better than 10. If your hardware or software is old than you might have issues with any upgrade.

As for spying and tracking find and turn that crap off and change browsers I use Brave but you need another one because some sites won't work on Brave.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

When security updates are no longer a thing due to EOL, those systems still running it should go dark from the internet, and be kept on an isolated network so other computers that are connected to the internet can't be used to exploit it.

I should have been playing with 11 for months now, but there's just too much other things I'm dealing with atm. I personally - and I advise my clients the same - do not upgrade major versions until it's been released into the wild, and any major bugs worked out. That's for production environments obviously, doesn't apply to testing machines.

Same advice I have for brand new models / complete redesigns of cars or other machinery. Let the other people do the experimenting / testing and deal with the headaches.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

avenge said:


> I think 10 is better than 7 which simply sucks and so far 11 is better than 10. If your hardware or software is old than you might have issues with any upgrade.
> 
> As for spying and tracking find and turn that crap off and change browsers I use Brave but you need another one because some sites won't work on Brave.


That's part of giving it time. Give people a chance to find that crap and figure out ways to turn it off.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

avenge said:


> I think 10 is better than 7 which simply sucks and so far 11 is better than 10. If your hardware or software is old than you might have issues with any upgrade.
> 
> As for spying and tracking find and turn that crap off and change browsers I use Brave but you need another one because some sites won't work on Brave.


You mean turn it off like going into incognito mode? Where they still track you but just don't enter it into the re ords you can access.

That kind of off?


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

We are all willing slaves with our own human kind spying upon us. This is truely a prison planet and now we all can see it.

Put on the glasses.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Leo G said:


> You mean turn it off like going into incognito mode? Where they still track you but just don't enter it into the re ords you can access.
> 
> That kind of off?


No turn off anything that asks for feedback/tracking off in settings in windows under privacy and browsers the best way not to be tracked over the internet is a VPN. I use Surfshark on my desktop. On anything else I don't give a sh*t what they track. Unfortunately so many apps don't work without some tracking.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

You can't turn Cortana off. I don't care what it says on your screen, it's never off. And a VPN doesn't do anything because it's hard coded into the OS.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

wallmaxx said:


> We are all willing slaves with our own human kind spying upon us. This is truely a prison planet and now we all can see it.
> 
> Put on the glasses.


Life imitating art. They Live + Idiocracy would be a pretty close approximation to what we've got now. Amazing how fast it's happened.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Leo G said:


> You can't turn Cortana off. I don't care what it says on your screen, it's never off. And a VPN doesn't do anything because it's hard coded into the OS.


I'm going to put that to the test in the next few months. They can opt out of showing on a screen what it's doing, but they can't hide from network sniffers.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

People used Wire Shark to look at incoming and outgoing data packets and found that no matter the setting or the protection you had on there the information kept being sent out. And that's how they concluded that the IPs they were sending it to were hard coded into the OS.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Leo G said:


> People used Wire Shark to look at incoming and outgoing data packets and found that no matter the setting or the protection you had on there the information kept being sent out. And that's how they concluded that the IPs they were sending it to were hard coded into the OS.


They found the same crap in Win 10, then they found ways to disable it. Not saying it can be disabled the same ways in 11. I'll block that crap at my firewall if I have to.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Cortana is not active by default in 11.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

One thing Microsoft didn't discuss: Windows 11 privacy


Microsoft appears to be taking privacy for granted in Windows 11, and that could become a big problem for the OS's messaging moving forward.




www.windowscentral.com





In Microsoft's Windows 11 blog post, the word "privacy" doesn't appear once in the copy, which doesn't exactly bode well for its messaging. Windows 11 will force users to use a Microsoft Account in its free Home Edition, which already speaks of a business model where your data is the monetization engine. Even if you're using the world's best VPN, it's not exactly going to protect your data from going directly to Microsoft if you're signed in. Apple has been keen to highlight how "free" services like Facebook are free only because _you_ are the product being sold, and Windows 11 doesn't do anything to waylay these fears.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

avenge said:


> Cortana is not active by default in 11.


So they say.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

A VPN doesn't protect you from your comp talking back home. That's not what it's for. Just like a hard hat doesn't protect you from falling off a roof. It can obscure from them where the data is coming from, but not who you are, or what data it sends back home. It's even possible that they can bypass VPN software with their "talk to home" bits if they really want to. They just have to hide another network stack in there, hard code it or otherwise bury it. Theoretically they could even tunnel it over their own VPN. They could even use something like Wireguard to make it all but invisible to you.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

So……..I updated the driver to my Wacom tablet and it said it needed to restart.

Well.

My win 11 desktop won’t boot past the AORUS screen.

Yep. Returning to macOS seems more and more appealing.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

F12 boot menu and go to safe mode, remove the update and reboot.

Or does Win10/11 not have a safe mode?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I have a brand new computer don't really know with it is but it is fine with Windows 10 for now.


Mike.
*___*


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

Leo G said:


> One thing Microsoft didn't discuss: Windows 11 privacy
> 
> 
> Microsoft appears to be taking privacy for granted in Windows 11, and that could become a big problem for the OS's messaging moving forward.
> ...


So why not run Linux? It gives you total control over your system, and it's free.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

It's this one. Good enough for what I use it for.










Mike.
*___*


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Pounder said:


> So why not run Linux? It gives you total control over your system, and it's free.


You're not gonna be running Chief Architect, or any CAD / CAM software worth using. Graphics software isn't all that great, the package management is a trainwreck, idc what distro you use, it can be glitchy and fiddly. You can run a Windows VM, but then you've got to deal with hardware abstraction layer issues - things don't always work all that great in a VM. And I've been daily driving a Linux box for about 7 years as a primary, 6 exclusively.

The vast majority of my servers run Linux or BSD, I love Linux. But I don't recommend it as a primary workstation OS for almost anybody. I probably would have never switched off of Windows if it wasn't for very specific use cases, i'd have just run Linux in a VM. If Windows had Bash, and decent SSH gear I wouldn't be typing this from a Linux box today.


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## G&Co. (Jul 29, 2020)

I still regret upgrading from Windows 7 to 10. Everything is worse with 10 on all of my desktops and laptops. Glitches, weird hangs, lots of bloat, random freezes, you name it. 7 worked flawlessly.


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

smalpierre said:


> You're not gonna be running Chief Architect, or any CAD / CAM software worth using. Graphics software isn't all that great, the package management is a trainwreck, idc what distro you use, it can be glitchy and fiddly. You can run a Windows VM, but then you've got to deal with hardware abstraction layer issues - things don't always work all that great in a VM. And I've been daily driving a Linux box for about 7 years as a primary, 6 exclusively.
> 
> The vast majority of my servers run Linux or BSD, I love Linux. But I don't recommend it as a primary workstation OS for almost anybody. I probably would have never switched off of Windows if it wasn't for very specific use cases, i'd have just run Linux in a VM. If Windows had Bash, and decent SSH gear I wouldn't be typing this from a Linux box today.


Cad is the only reason I run windows, otherwise it would be linux. My 80 year old MIL kept having trouble with win7, so I installed mint, haven't had an issue since.
Win 10 is ok, but it takes a while to get all the useless crap under control.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Pounder said:


> Cad is the only reason I run windows, otherwise it would be linux. My 80 year old MIL kept having trouble with win7, so I installed mint, haven't had an issue since.
> Win 10 is ok, but it takes a while to get all the useless crap under control.


You keeping it updated? They're a huge pain to manage in an enterprise environment. Users get stuck not able to do anything without local root access. Or they'll be calling incessantly to install this, change screen resolution, X doesn't work - it's a nightmare when you're managing 100 endpoints. Or even 10. If she's just surfing websites though, nearly anything is fine. Chromebooks are pretty good for that too.


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## Pounder (Nov 28, 2020)

smalpierre said:


> You keeping it updated? They're a huge pain to manage in an enterprise environment. Users get stuck not able to do anything without local root access. Or they'll be calling incessantly to install this, change screen resolution, X doesn't work - it's a nightmare when you're managing 100 endpoints. Or even 10. If she's just surfing websites though, nearly anything is fine. Chromebooks are pretty good for that too.


She's 80, so no, she's developing apps or writing scripts. Surfing the web and email are her uses. The one rule she always follows is that whenever something pops up on her screen with a yes/no check box, the answer is always no.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

avenge said:


> I was on a preview build since July without issue. No problems with any programs.
> 
> You might have to turn on TPM in your bios.


It's my understanding it's really picky about TPM implimentation, so even if you have the hardware there's no guarntee it will work with what you got.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Microsoft has issued a workaround to bypass TPM 2.0 requirement but you still need TPM 1.2 but that covers a whole lot more boards.

Ways to install Windows 11



DeskJockey said:


> It's my understanding it's really picky about TPM implimentation, so even if you have the hardware there's no guarntee it will work with what you got.


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## StevensPowellb (17 d ago)

I don't think I will start using Windows 11 this year, they are still updating their OS, and I remember well that it took them a long time to release the stable windows 10 version without significant bugs. I bought the windows 11 pro key on release but still waiting until most of the applications I'm using will have the same stability on windows 11 as they have on windows 10 now. However, I heard that Microsoft will stop supporting Windows 10 in 2025, so I hope soon I will be able to switch to Windows 11.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

I saw a lot of Win7 hold outs in the beginning of the thread before i stopped reading the rest.
For security, functionality and support I would recommend you all upgrade to Win10.
The jump from 7 to 10 will result in better performance especially on older machines.
I was hesitant too but made the switch a year ago and regret that it took me so long.
It's free so there is no excuses. 
Do it. Just do it.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)




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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Now that 11 is out, migrate to 10.
Never migrate to "new" versions until there is a "newer" one.
All the hotfix needed for Win10 has come and gone for the most part.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I would have been happy if they left XP alone, Then Windows 7.

This new computer is windows 11 home & student I think 365 Its better than 10 was and I too hated cortona


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm stuck on 8.1 because I have 3 critical apps that will not work on anything newer and the apps cannot be updated because they have been discontinued (thus no support) and some the abilities of those apps are not available in anything else out there.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Joe Fairplay said:


> I saw a lot of Win7 hold outs in the beginning of the thread before i stopped reading the rest.
> For security, functionality and support I would recommend you all upgrade to Win10.
> The jump from 7 to 10 will result in better performance especially on older machines.
> I was hesitant too but made the switch a year ago and regret that it took me so long.
> ...


It spies on you so much more than Win7. I'm holding out for as long as I can. I like it, I know it and I'm still getting security updates for it for some reason. Chrome has a banner that says no more updates until I switch over to Win10. So be it.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Leo G said:


> It spies on you so much more than Win7.


I believe the chipsets and cpu's from china are all littered with back doors and malware. 
The least of my concern would be the OS being used as a portal.
It doesn't matter what software you have when the hardware is the enabler.
I have accepted that they spying, it's been obvious for a decade. So be it. I don't care anymore. Go ahead and watch.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Difference is chyna isn't going to be knocking on your door, our country would do that. Spying is pretty ubiquitous in our govt. They spy because they can. They may never do anything with your information, but they have it in case they need to grind you into dust.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Difference is chyna isn't going to be knocking on your door, our country would do that. Spying is pretty ubiquitous in our govt. They spy because they can. They may never do anything with your information, but they have it in case they need to grind you into dust.


The one thing they will do with your data is allow it to be stolen. Big Brother is known for that.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

They won't let it be stolen. Don't be silly. They sell it to the highest bidder.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Leo G said:


> They won't let it be stolen. Don't be silly. They sell it to the highest bidder.


Then that's "doing something with it". 😉


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

480sparky said:


> Then that's "doing something with it". 😉


Oh... I see what you did there.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That's not what he said. "allow it to be stolen "


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

So what is the latest with security like macafee I kinda don't believe in these things


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Tom M said:


> So what is the latest with security like macafee I kinda don't believe in these things


I uninstalled it today. Never signed up and got tired of the popups.
I use what Comcast offers, completely in the background and I was fortunate enough to get on board with Malwarebytes when they first came out and get it for free forever...including upgrades.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I keep getting a no longer protected pop up that annoys me, but giving money for this crap doesn't guarantee anything either so that annoys me


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Tom M said:


> So what is the latest with security like macafee I kinda don't believe in these things


I would delete it even if it came with a free subscription.


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## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Joe Fairplay said:


> I saw a lot of Win7 hold outs in the beginning of the thread before i stopped reading the rest.
> For security, functionality and support I would recommend you all upgrade to Win10.
> The jump from 7 to 10 will result in better performance especially on older machines.
> I was hesitant too but made the switch a year ago and regret that it took me so long.
> ...


I've been thinking about it. Not because something is wrong with my win7 but I just want something different. 

Otherwise, my win 7 is going on 11 years bug and virus free. I put a Samsung 980 pro SSD in there 8years ago and reinstalled and it's still going but I'm thinking it's time just in case.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Pompanosix said:


> I've been thinking about it. Not because something is wrong with my win7 but I just want something different.
> 
> Otherwise, my win 7 is going on 11 years bug and virus free. I put a Samsung 980 pro SSD in there 8years ago and reinstalled and it's still going but I'm thinking it's time just in case.


I kept my Win7 system after getting Windows 11. Disconnected it from the internet and it's where my important files are, along with hard backup.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Pompanosix said:


> I've been thinking about it. Not because something is wrong with my win7 but I just want something different.
> 
> Otherwise, my win 7 is going on 11 years bug and virus free. I put a Samsung 980 pro SSD in there 8years ago and reinstalled and it's still going but I'm thinking it's time just in case.


If your going to use any reasonably new software you are going to have to at some point.
I think it's a huge improvement over Win7.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I uninstalled Onedrive also.
That's Microsoft's cloud and that's the default storage location.
No thanks.


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## letgomywago (12 mo ago)

So I used Ubuntu for years as a kid. My dad was a Linux guy so I saw the other side haha. I used to be a front runner on thing like this but with bloat ware going out of control I've like other options. I've been using win10 for awhile but will probably go back to Ubuntu soon it's just so much more in control. I trust it more even when I take my tin foil hat off. Why else would people use Linux systems for large severs if being in control of your whole system wasn't better.


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## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Joe Fairplay said:


> If your going to use any reasonably new software you are going to have to at some point.
> I think it's a huge improvement over Win7.


I have win7 ultimate now. Will they allow me to get 10pro and not Home?


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Robie said:


> I uninstalled Onedrive also.
> That's Microsoft's cloud and that's the default storage location.
> No thanks.


I gotta do that


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Pompanosix said:


> I have win7 ultimate now. Will they allow me to get 10pro and not Home?


I'm not sure I understand the question.
Who is "they" and why would they limit your version choices for windows?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The "free" swap over likely.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Oh, ok. Makes sense now.
If you have Win7, any version of Win10 is free, including the Pro version.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Also, it doesn't matter how you "upgrade".
You can "upgrade" using the installed windows update feature or you can simply install a fresh copy using an install disc or downloading from the Windows website.
It can be a fresh install or an update, doesn't matter. It's free.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I use to have it on the hard drive. Then I cloned it to a new drive and made sure it didn't tag along.


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## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Joe Fairplay said:


> I'm not sure I understand the question.
> Who is "they" and why would they limit your version choices for windows?


Referring to Microsoft. You said it's free to upgrade 

So for example, if you upgrading from a win7 Home, do you get the win10 Home version or equivalent? Or if upgrading from win7 Pro, do you then get the option of of win10 pro?


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## Pompanosix (Sep 22, 2015)

Disregard. Wrote my question without updating thread.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Joe Fairplay said:


> I saw a lot of Win7 hold outs in the beginning of the thread before i stopped reading the rest.
> For security, functionality and support I would recommend you all upgrade to Win10.
> The jump from 7 to 10 will result in better performance especially on older machines.
> I was hesitant too but made the switch a year ago and regret that it took me so long.
> ...


I wouldn't suggest that for older hardware.
I WOULD have in the earlier iterations of 10, but 10 has become a bloated mess. They succumbed to concept creep and it is WAY too big of a footprint for lots of older hardware.
What started out as a slim improvement of 7 has become something else entirely

Win 10 is not really one version of a software. That model ended with 8.1. It's is constantly evolving so that is has effectively been several versions of OS.

We had a couple of older all-in-one machines that have become all but useless the last 3 years or so. 
I put 8.1 on them and they work great again. They also work fine with OG Win 10 (1507), but that version basically forcese you to update so 8.1 it is.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

480sparky said:


> I'm stuck on 8.1 because I have 3 critical apps that will not work on anything newer and the apps cannot be updated because they have been discontinued (thus no support) and some the abilities of those apps are not available in anything else out there.


Can they run in a virtual machine environment.

Virtual Box
VMware
etc?


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Robie said:


> I kept my Win7 system after getting Windows 11. Disconnected it from the internet and it's where my important files are, along with hard backup.


Air gapped. Nice. SCIF protocols require all computers to be 36” apart from one another. Something about electromagnetic emanations that can be read from one machine close to a nearby target machine.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

wallmaxx said:


> Can they run in a virtual machine environment.
> 
> Virtual Box
> VMware
> etc?


I think there are a few options for emulation software to run old programs.
I never tried them in a decade, I wonder if it's a hassle to use them or not?
I remember using some emulation to run old dos stuff after windows took over.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

https://youtube.com/@ChrisTitusTech



this guy has windows 10 and windows 11 bloatware removal tools that he made himself. Search through his site and find the videos that apply to your situation and he does a great job of making windows fast, efficient, secure, and obedient.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

wallmaxx said:


> Can they run in a virtual machine environment.
> 
> Virtual Box
> VMware
> etc?


I'm not about to dump my hard-earned money on such a gamble. And all the forums I'm on about the matter has been discussed and the concensus is........ no, they cannot. They are no longer downloadable, and they are no longer supported by the owners. They have been orphaned, and left to their own devices. And my device is a desert island.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Joe Fairplay said:


> I think there are a few options for emulation software to run old programs.
> I never tried them in a decade, I wonder if it's a hassle to use them or not?
> I remember using some emulation to run old dos stuff after windows took over.


I'm still running a DOS CAD program on Win7. I use DOSbox to do it. Works pretty well.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Leo G said:


> I'm still running a DOS CAD program on Win7. I use DOSbox to do it. Works pretty well.


Yes, that is what I was talking about. I used it for a while and it was not much hassle.
I was asking more about today's emulators that are trying to do a lot more than just replicate DOS.
Geeks find solutions so I think everything is possible.
BTW..The 32 bit version of Windows 10 has Virtual DOS Machine built in.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Pompanosix said:


> I have win7 ultimate now. Will they allow me to get 10pro and not Home?


From what I've experienced the Win 10 "Media Creation Tool" defaults to a home license and does NOT give you a choice of version, though I usually do clean (wipe and format) installs.

To enable the option to choose on install you have to modify a configuration file on the USB stick as outlined here.

To "unlock" Win 10 you can use the product key of any equivalent Win 7 edition. I believe they stopped issuing physical licenses (the sticker with the key and holographic image) starting with Win 8.
Also Win 10 licenses can be had for a pretty low price.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

DeskJockey said:


> Also Win 10 licenses can be had for a pretty low price.


Because they get all your information for free.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Leo G said:


> Because they get all your information for free.


No, you get to pay for the privilege to give them your information.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

I'm not sure why people keep claiming Win10 is not free.
You do not need to upgrade to get it for free.
It's free. Simple as that.
Download and install it, free.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Joe Fairplay said:


> I'm not sure why people keep claiming Win10 is not free.
> You do not need to upgrade to get it for free.
> It's free. Simple as that.
> Download and install it, free.


Yes one can install without a key and have an unlicensed working copy. 
This is a forum for professionals and it's generally unadvisable (and against the terms of service) to use unlicensed software in business.
A license for 10 Pro is sub $20 on the open market, it's a non-issue.


PS in the future it's nice to include a link with your screen shot.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

DeskJockey said:


> Yes one can install without a key and have an unlicensed working copy.
> This is a forum for professionals and it's generally unadvisable (and against the terms of service) to use unlicensed software in business.
> A license for 10 Pro is sub $20 on the open market, it's a non-issue.
> PS in the future it's nice to include a link with your screen shot.


Stop being silly.
Are you suggesting that having a digital license is somehow using unlicensed software. Thats dumb.
Fun fact: Windows 10 activates automatically using a digital license and doesn’t require you to enter a product key.
PS in the future I will provide a link to things I want people to go visit and I will continue to use a screenshot when I deem it appropriate and I do not give two crap sticks what you think about that.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

What?
Windows will let you use it unlicensed it says so right in the article you referenced:

Microsoft allows anyone to download Windows 10 for free and install it without a product key. It’ll keep working for the foreseeable future, with only a few small cosmetic restrictions. And you can even pay to upgrade to a licensed copy of Windows 10 after you install it.


Just because they no longer lock up Windows installed without a key doesn't mean business users aren't supposed to run licensed software.


Also this is for "Home" a version I can't use as we need features in Pro or Enterprise.


At our business we have licensed copies of Windows, sorry that vexes you. As I stated the cost to upgrade is minimal in the event our new machines don't come with Pro (which is often the case).



Do what you want in your usage.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

DeskJockey said:


> At our business we have licensed copies of Windows, sorry that vexes you.


I dont give a crap what you use.
Stop telling people Win10 is not free (it is) and that if you use it your are somehow not in line with Microsoft licensing (your not).


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Joe Fairplay said:


> Stop telling people Win10 is not free (it is) and that if you use it your are somehow not in line with Microsoft licensing (your not).


This is not true. Commercial (this means business) users are supposed to use licensed copies of Windows per Microsoft's terms of service even though unlicensed copies still largely function.
I don't know why this seems to piss you off? I didn't make the policy, nor am I Bill Gates or Satya Nadella.

The unlicensed version of Windows Home will function almost 100%. The Pro and Enterprise editions are a bit more nerfed and work more like Home does when unlicensed.

Again use whatever you want. 
I don't know why this seems to be a holy crusade for you. 

Go chase those windmills bud.


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## Joe Fairplay (Aug 26, 2021)

Win10 is still free.


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## DeskJockey (Jul 12, 2021)

Joe Fairplay said:


> Win10 is still free.


10 _WAS_ officially free for one year. 
You can still upgrade to 10 for free from a previous version, or perform a clean/new install with a product key from a previous version. Also there are a couple of other use cases where they give you a free license (most notably those who use assistive technologies). source

And yes, as you (repeatedly) pointed out one can install Windows *UNLICENSED* and it will _*mostly*_ work. The "Home" version at least.

The truth is that it's _*not*_ free and per their terms of service one cannot legally use an unlicensed copy. Are they ever going to know? Not likely of course.


All of this is largely moot (and entertaining) as 10 has shipped with PC's as standard for about 6 years. And yes, those manufacturers do have to pay for that license which they buy in bulk.
I still have to buy the occasional license because I have to upgrade from Win 10 Home on new machines.



But yeah, sure, let's just say it's "free". 
There, you happy now? You just saved $15!


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