# Cut subfloor along base cabinet toe kick



## southernyankee (Feb 21, 2011)

Plan on using an oscillating tool. Any other ideas?


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

toe kick saw. Harbor freight sells a knock off version.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Depends on what is being preserved. A sawzall with a short blade also works.


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Can you access from below?

How long of a cut?

Pictures?

Sawzall won't let you be 90° to the toe kick


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Warren said:


> Depends on what is being preserved. A sawzall with a short blade also works.


Hmmm, I was thinking of a long blade (12") and bending it under there against the toekick. Just a thought.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> Hmmm, I was thinking of a long blade (12") and bending it under there against the toekick. Just a thought.


That does actually cut faster and straighter, but if/when it jumps out, things will get damaged.


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Oscillating tool will work slowly but a toe kick saw is tour best bet. A rotozip might would work also.

You going between the joists or across the joists?


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Warren said:


> That does actually cut faster and straighter, but if/when it jumps out, things will get damaged.


Slow and steady. But what's going to get damaged under there? No finished surfaces to worry about. (toekick ....who cares? - cover it)

Edit: toekick saw from harbor freight.....$69?...I'm sold.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> Slow and steady. But what's going to get damaged under there? No finished surfaces to worry about. (toekick ....who cares? - cover it)


I am just approaching it cautiously until I know what gets saved. Get a chainsaw if you want speed and don't care about the carnage. 

I have one of those Bosch flush cut saws that I have never used. I think this is another job that it would NOT be suited for. Some day I will find a use for it.


----------



## Dustincoc (Sep 14, 2011)

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-3-8-eighth-inch-blade-toe-kick-saw-94626.html


----------



## j_sims (Jul 5, 2007)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEdLWBTp4Ws

I agree with Warren....One bad hit with a sawzall blade and start jabbing the cabinets. 
For $70 I'd go with the toe kick saw @ HF. Even if it last for only 5 or 6 projects it's be worth the money. Or spend about $250-$300 for a Crain.


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

HD rents the saw


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

j_sims said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEdLWBTp4Ws
> 
> I agree with Warren....One bad hit with a sawzall blade and start jabbing the cabinets.
> For $70 I'd go with the toe kick saw @ HF. Even if it last for only 5 or 6 projects it's be worth the money. Or spend about $250-$300 for a Crain.


I've got the crain, but I thought they'd discontinued making it. Think they lost a lawsuit, but I could be wrong.


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

j_sims said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEdLWBTp4Ws
> 
> I agree with Warren....One bad hit with a sawzall blade and start jabbing the cabinets.
> For $70 I'd go with the toe kick saw @ HF. Even if it last for only 5 or 6 projects it's be worth the money. Or spend about $250-$300 for a Crain.


How would the cabinets get jabbed? Even with a skipped-out blade, I don't see how that would happen. What am I missing? Thanks.


----------



## southernyankee (Feb 21, 2011)

Going to stop HF on the way to the job Saturday. Tried a wide flush cut blade with ossc. tool but it was painfully. Removing 5/8" subfloor and laying 3/4" hardwoods Monday. There's another layer of 5/8" subfloor under the one I'm removing.
Frigging ring shank nails really do hold well. The plywoods busting up over the nail head, while the nail stays put. Made for a long day.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> How would the cabinets get jabbed? Even with a skipped-out blade, I don't see how that would happen. What am I missing? Thanks.


I am guessing that you haven't plunge cut with a long blade on a sawzall in an awkward position very often.


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Warren said:


> I am guessing that you haven't plunge cut with a long blade on a sawzall in an awkward position very often.


 Uh, ok. You seem like a good guy so I'm going to ignore that. Care to answer without a cut like that? Much appreciated. (I promise to read slowly so I might learn something.) And just to be clear, I'm willing to sacrifice the toe-kick and glue on another face, if necessary.


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Mark, I think he was being serious.

Plunge cutting with a long blade will most likely get kicked back a few times resulting in damage.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> Uh, ok. You seem like a good guy so I'm going to ignore that. Care to answer without a cut like that? Much appreciated. (I promise to read slowly so I might learn something.) And just to be clear, I'm willing to sacrifice the toe-kick and glue on another face, if necessary.


I was just making an assumption based on your previous posts. Getting a sawzall to follow that awkward track can be done, but is very risky. A 12" blade can bump out very easily when trying to plunge on that angle with the blade torqued. I have made these cuts many times. Being a framer I am pretty skilled with a reciprocating saw. If your gonna replace the toe kick, you may as well just snap it off before making the cut. That would make the cut easier and lessen the risk of damage to the cabinet or the operator.


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

jb4211 said:


> Mark, I think he was being serious.
> 
> Plunge cutting with a long blade will most likely get kicked back a few times resulting in damage.


Thanks. Still don't get it. If we're cutting out subfloor under a cabinet, no way I'd let it hit the cabinet front. Who knows, maybe I'm just too good with them....  Whatever.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> Thanks. Still don't get it. If we're cutting out subfloor under a cabinet, no way I'd let it hit the cabinet front. Who knows, maybe I'm just too good with them....  Whatever.


Either that or you are using a very underpowered sawzall.


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Regardless of how good you may be, there are better ways to solve this puzzle.


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Warren said:


> If your gonna replace the toe kick, you may as well just snap it off before making the cut. That would make the cut easier and lessen the risk of damage to the cabinet or the operator.


I was figuring on pushing against the toe-kick with the blade...thought that was pretty clear based on my previous posts. Have a good one.


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Warren said:


> Either that or you are using a very underpowered sawzall.


There's only one Sawzall...anything else, is just a poor copy. lol


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Warren said:


> I was just making an assumption based on your previous posts. Getting a sawzall to follow that awkward track can be done, but is very risky. A 12" blade can bump out very easily when trying to plunge on that angle with the blade torqued. I have made these cuts many times. Being a framer I am pretty skilled with a reciprocating saw. If your gonna replace the toe kick, you may as well just snap it off before making the cut. That would make the cut easier and lessen the risk of damage to the cabinet or the operator.



I've had good luck using the real stiff back demo sawzall blades. They don't seem to kick as bad, or flop around. Toekick saw is still the proper tool for the job.


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I think we can all agree, sawzalls aren't the most delicate tool in the shed.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

pinwheel said:


> I've had good luck using the real stiff back demo sawzall blades. They don't seem to kick as bad, or flop around. Toekick saw is still the proper tool for the job.


I totally agree Pin, but a lot of guys, including me, do not own one of those widowmakers. We do a lot of kitchen and bath demo. We rarely get to do the finish carpentry work in them. Most times we are not saving much of anything, but occasionally, something needs to be protected. I have had good luck with the sawzall and a short blade. Go slow, use a good angle, and don't get greedy. Finish up with the multi saw near the wall.


----------



## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I have done it numerous times, 
multimaster works well but slow- put tape on blade so you don't cut too deep

Sawzall- no depth control, blade is all over the place because the saw is off to the side of the area that needs to be cut

HF toe kick saw- works the best, I would buy a new one for each job if I had to

Remember you cut through 2nd layer of subfloor you're screwed unless you have extra time to install blocking from below


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I hear HD rents em


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

rrk said:


> Remember you cut through 2nd layer of subfloor you're screwed unless you have extra time to install blocking from below


I wasn't considering two layers...Good point. :thumbsup:


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

MarkJames said:


> I wasn't considering two layers...Good point. :thumbsup:




Now I see why you were confused. Happens to all of us sometimes. :thumbsup:


----------



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Warren said:


> Now I see why you were confused. Happens to all of us sometimes. :thumbsup:


Was that your assumption? I don't recall that being mentioned by anybody. It changes everything, certainly.


----------



## j_sims (Jul 5, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> How would the cabinets get jabbed? Even with a skipped-out blade, I don't see how that would happen. What am I missing? Thanks.



...I've wrapped a 12" blade to the point the saw is NEARLY at a right angle to the blade. It's not that it can't be done...but why even run the risk when there is a better affordable alternative. 
That was going to be the response..... Then I saw your *edit* above about HF:thumbsup: Good luck!


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Isn't the toe kick just a skin over plywood? Some are


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> I was figuring on pushing against the toe-kick with the blade...thought that was pretty clear based on my previous posts. Have a good one.


A toekick is usually 2 parts, one already attached to the cabinet, two a thin layer matching the cabinet finish. You're gonna have the blade at a pretty good angle with the sawsall rubbing the cabinets, pretty good chance you'll be bending the blade as you're cutting. If you don't understand how a sawsall can easily kickback then you haven't used them much.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

avenge said:


> A toekick is usually 2 parts, one already attached to the cabinet, two a thin layer matching the cabinet finish. You're gonna have the blade at a pretty good angle with the sawsall rubbing the cabinets, pretty good chance you'll be bending the blade as you're cutting. If you don't understand how a sawsall can easily kickback then you haven't used them much.


So why not pull the skin off make the cut and put the skin back on?


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Californiadecks said:


> So why not pull the skin off make the cut and put the skin back on?


That's what I would do even if I damage the skin pulling it off I'd just match and replace.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

A finished toe-kick can be skin, to 1/8" - 3/4" material. Depends on the quality of the cabinet.

The toe-kick saw is the best option for it, but have you all seen the "Spyder" blades? 

http://www.spyderproducts.com/toolpages/spyder-bore-blade/

Haven't tried them myself, as I have a batch of regular blades from the last bulk purchase, but their "bore-bit" seems like a match if you were to use a sawzall... still wouldn't for reasons mentioned, but if you had to... :whistling


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> So why not pull the skin off make the cut and put the skin back on?


Keep a length of laminate on hand that is around 3"h x 4'w and it will take the damage not the toe-kick... tape it on and run the saw... no marks... no fuss...


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

KAP said:


> Keep a length of laminate on hand that is around 3"h x 4'w and it will take the damage not the toe-kick... tape it on and run the saw... no marks... no fuss...


When I've gotta pull out old hardwood or particle board to lay new flooring, I use a piece of 1/8" masonite to protect the toe kick. A toe kick saw will pile up sawdust against the toekick & can do damage to it. I don't worry about the extra 1/8", as I'm gonna be putting base shoe down to cover the gap anyhow.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

pinwheel said:


> When I've gotta pull out old hardwood or particle board to lay new flooring, I use a piece of 1/8" masonite to protect the toe kick. A toe kick saw will pile up sawdust against the toekick & can do damage to it. I don't worry about the extra 1/8", as I'm gonna be putting base shoe down to cover the gap anyhow.


Same concept... different material... :thumbsup:

Laminate strip rolls up nice and easy...


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

I don't think a reciprocating saw would be the right tool for the job. If it was just an occasional job I would just use a multi-tool. Slow but you'd have it done before you went out an bought the HF tool. If it came up often I would just bite the bullet and get a quality tool and not a disposable HF copy. I'd pull the laminate off the toe kick or protect it with thin metal stock.


----------



## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

I have a multi angle sawzall and it's good at getting into places but around finished goods hell no would I use it!!


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I have one of these that may work as well.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

They sell them at Graingers


----------



## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

I used a toekick saw for the first time last month. It was lent to me. It was the right tool for the job but I still needed the muti tool to finish cuts. And I used painters tape for protection while to ride against the cabinet.

One thing I didnt like about the I used was it had a factor depth set of 3/4". I was cutting up 1/2" the manual recommended use a scrap piec of material to nail along the perimeter to elevate the depth. I thought that was a stupid thing to have to do.


----------



## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Only thing I have to add is two hands on the toe kick saw at all times. Its a dangerous tool. It can kick unexpectedly. Had one run up my leg one time. Only thing that saved the tendon at my knee was my double front carharts.


----------



## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Metro M & L said:


> Only thing I have to add is two hands on the toe kick saw at all times. Its a dangerous tool. It can kick unexpectedly. Had one run up my leg one time. Only thing that saved the tendon at my knee was my double front carharts.



This piece of advice is so important, it needs quoted in case someone missed it the first time.

That sumbitch will kick back on you in the blink of an eye if you're not careful.


----------



## southernyankee (Feb 21, 2011)

In the end, I used a wood blade on an ossiclating tool. Took about an how and the toe kick was unscathed. Can still get some use out of the blade.


----------



## projectpete19 (Feb 25, 2014)

I just did this where the toe kick was thin veneer glued onto thick plywood, i tried to take it off carefully to save it but they glued it in so much it came up in a couple pieces.

i removed the cork floor with a sawzall, held the sawzall upside down and made sure the body of the saw was pushed to the ground the whole time (if that description makes sense). was done in 10 minutes for 40 linear feet.

my question is what would you guys do if it was already ceramic tiled and the customer wanted that changed. I am assuming the only two ways are to either remove the cabinets and pull the tile or chisel the tile away level with the toekick?


----------



## littlefred811 (Dec 16, 2012)

The Crane unit has blades for 3/4 and 5/8" (I think these are the two depths). While it IS a very dangerous tool when you don't pay attention, it works great when you use it properly. Any circular device will require a square finish cut from some other tool. You should make sure to charge accordingly.
As a Hardwood Floor guy, I have cut many hundreds of feet in the old days (production flooring, late 90's/early 2000's) using the Sawzall. I went to the long blade early and often. Careful use and a long stroke saw (super unit has 1 1/8" travel vs 5/8" or so for regular unit) make it RELATIVELY easy. Remember, this is a PITA action and requires caution.
Best of luck to all doing this.


----------



## bddog (Jan 10, 2009)

Masking tape everything.
Toe kick saw works well. I have one, but I thought I could fly through it with a sawzall.
This guy I hired grabbed the four inch grinder and really did fly through it. Metal guy.


----------

