# What's the most expensive mistakes you have made?



## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

Like the title says.

Alot of you guys like to point out that you must make mistakes to succeed, or try to succeed. Though some of you can get kinda rude... :blink:

So let's hear them! What's the expensive mistakes you have made while being in business for yourself?

I'll start.

Thinking blood was thicker than water. I did a job 2 years ago, that cost me big. There were warning signs all over the place, which at the time I did pick up on but didn't connect the dots.

I did do the job. Basically painted out the whole thing myself. Took 3 months.. And ended up costing me $1200 out of pocket :surrender::thumbdown

It totally sucked! The job came out well though and learned some very important lessons in the process. I call those lessons, the $1200 lessons. :laughing:

Needless to say, this GC called me about another project he had. When he tweaked at my price I laid into him politely.

I didn't get the job.

Again, that one had all these warning signs all over it. Only this time, I knew better. I saw the warning signs he was laying out, recognized them, connected the dots, put together a game plan, and politely told him. 'No'


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Hired a helper who was recommended - supposed to be experienced, etc. Laid out what he needed to do, got him started, went to get some materials. Came back an hour later, and instead he had cut out all the brand new plumbing flush with the upstairs floor, so newly rocked upstairs walls had to be opened to redo it. Didn't keep track of the time and cost to me - would have bummed me out worse than I was.


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## IsmaelAlva (Jan 21, 2013)

I did a job for a frien of mine, my initial bid was for 8000.00 but as we progress we added a lot of extras, at the time I tough we were on the same page and he understood that it was going to cost a lot more, but never made him sign a change order. At the end of the job I calculated about 6000.00 on extras for which he was only willing to pay me 1000.00. In business there is no friends or family and if you don't want to loose them write everything and do not assume.


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

75 views... 2 responses. Don't be shy ladies:thumbsup:


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## gastek (Mar 29, 2011)

Working for family and friends. They want everything at cost and not a penny more and then they complain about things afterwards.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

Don't do a barter deal without a contract. Did it once and won't ever do it again. The work agreed to, from their perspective, was a whole lot more than I recalled in our conversation.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

gastek said:


> Working for family and friends. They want everything at cost and not a penny more and then they complain about things afterwards.


Or to another family member about how they were charged too much.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Letting a contractor tell me what a large siding project was worth... cost me and former partner about 800 a week to go to work for 2 1/2 months


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Letting a contractor tell me what a large siding project was worth... cost me and former partner about 800 a week to go to work for 2 1/2 months


So you're the one that got the no pricing questions policy started.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Letting a contractor tell me what a large siding project was worth... cost me and former partner about 800 a week to go to work for 2 1/2 months


 ouch :no:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Becoming a contractor. :whistling


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## QCCI (Jan 28, 2013)

You stay in this business long enough, you'll have paid for an Harvard education. It's just the nature of the beast. You'll learn from every time and hopefully it never happens again.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

QCCI said:


> You stay in this business long enough, you'll have paid for an Harvard education. It's just the nature of the beast. You'll learn from every time and hopefully it never happens again.


Oh, that's what I'm doing wrong, I keep letting it happen again.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Becoming a contractor. :whistling


I knew that was coming :whistling:laughing:


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I have been in business for myself for exactly 8 days now.

Most expensive mistake to date: $178 to replace pedestal sink I broke while mounting. I knew it was tight to the wall. I went for an insurance 1/4 turn on the lag screw. Crack.

Will update this post as I continue to break things of greater value. hah.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Easy Gibson said:


> I have been in business for myself for exactly 8 days now.
> 
> Most expensive mistake to date: $178 to replace pedestal sink I broke while mounting. I knew it was tight to the wall. I went for an insurance 1/4 turn on the lag screw. Crack.
> 
> Will update this post as I continue to break things of greater value. hah.


Congrats on the new business :thumbup:


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks.

Still working on a name. Wife suggested Sinking Ship, Sinking Feeling, Titanic Const., and Hulk Smash.


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

Left my guys on site and told them more than once don't use that mobile staircase.

I came back to the fireman at the door, we're talking the whole Syracuse fire department.

I ask the secretary what happened she said you don't know

I run to the fourth floor where my guys are filling up 55 gallon barrels with water from the sprinkler system that they knocked the head off with the mobile staircase they were told not to use.

So I guess my worst mistake was not firing them immediately


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience..... well, that comes from poor judgement." -No idea who said that.

I haven't had many that actually cost me money but I've had some where I couldn't pay myself after. My first cabinet job on my own after the cabinet company I worked for laid off everyone for a few months(9/11/01) was like that. I was used to a really nice machine setup but I built this in my buddy's back yard including a plastic film spray tent for a white lacquer finish After I finished the job I figured that I made $4.30 per hour for 120 hours, before taxes of course. I did get a decent tablesaw out of it though.


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## Tylerwalker32 (Jun 27, 2011)

Well I was bidding a composite deck project and I referenced a wrong dimension. I got the job and about halfway through laying the decking I realized I had come up 15 boards short along with screws. About a 600 dollar mistake. The customers caught onto the mistake and asked they said not to worry they would cover it. To say the least I was embarrassed and thankful.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

ferd144 said:


> It was one of my first new home builds.The existing shack/cottage was on grade on a waterfront canal on the south shore of Long Island.
> 
> After knocking down the structure completely,and installing 35-45' pilings,with pile caps,on a concrete grade beam...I "decided myself" that the first floor code elevation of 9'(above mean sea level) was waaaay too high.It looked completely out of line with all the existing houses on the block
> 
> ...


Aww, shucks, who needs them "plans an' specs", ahl jus bang it out like this ee hear! :laughing:


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Hiring the wrong people. Not firing them quickly enough.


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## Jeremy165 (Jan 17, 2013)

There is a local mall near my home and I normally go to it in my 4runner personal vehicle. One day I went there on the way home from work in my Econoline van and didn't think about clearance. My ladder rack smashing into the overhead concrete beam was so loud every single person stopped in their tracks and looked at me. Then I had to smash my way back out. My ladder rack was bent backwards and mangled. My buddy said I should have left the parking garage in reverse and maybe pushed the ladder rack back in place. It even tore the rain drip edge where the rack mounts. Luckily I didn't have my extension ladders up there. Nowadays I just ride around with a little giant anyways, and the mangled ladder rack is leaning against my garage.

I purchased a foreclosure house and was flipping it. My buddy and I picked up two prefab granite slabs, tied and secured them in place and drove to the jobsite. It was still light out so we decided we had time to dig out a rhododendron that was in an awkward place in the yard. We soaked the area with a garden hose, dug and dug, then decided to use his rig to pull out the rhody. He didn't have any rope so I untied the slabs and we used it to yank the rhody out. An hour or two of yardwork later and I decided to move my rig into better position to unload the slabs. You can see where this is going. While backing up, without driving fast or turning or anything, the slabs fell over and cracked right at the sink. $500 mistake.


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## Wood Worx (Nov 4, 2009)

I signed off on some measurements for a granite counter. Turned out that the overhang was an inch short and since I initialed it, it became my problem. I ended up writing a check for about $1800 to have them fix it. Needless to say, I never used that granite fabricator again.


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## r4r&r (Feb 22, 2012)

Wood Worx said:


> I signed off on some measurements for a granite counter. Turned out that the overhang was an inch short and since I initialed it, it became my problem. I ended up writing a check for about $1800 to have them fix it. Needless to say, I never used that granite fabricator again.


Granite guy did the same thing on my last bath. I worked out a deal with the HO to use granite splash, was going to be tile, so he could use waste from the slab. It's all good right? Nope they install curved back, square, under mount sinks crooked. So I make them r&r them. Then installer let's the hole saw jump out when he's cutting the last faucet hole and it chatters across the top about an inch. What does the owner of the granite company do, tells me he is loosing too much money on the job and just wants to pull his granite and we can get somebody else. 

This the day before Thanksgiving and I have already lost the better part of two days jacking with this as there is no way for others to be in there working while they are. I haven't lost it on someone like that in a long time. My hands were still shaking an hour later. After the fact I am glad he wasn't on site and this all just happened over the phone otherwise there could have been longer delays as bail was being arranged.


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## Wood Worx (Nov 4, 2009)

I forgot, they also cut the sink backwards. Luckily the h/o was ok with ordering a new sink


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## schaefercs (Jul 10, 2008)

A few tears ago i had a 40 foot extension ladder leaning up against an apartment. Had to move it a few feet to the right and what when it caught a big gust of wind and I lost control of it. 

The hood of a brand new Volkswagen passat isn't designed to withstand the impact of falling ladders. 

Luckily for me I was an employee. Lost my job but nothing more.


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## CA & AZ Builder (Dec 22, 2009)

Let me see - my biggest costliest mistake, too many to list, ok how about 18 years ago when I invested in a business to the tune of about $400k for equipment, yep I was the finance partner with 2 good friends, lost it all and my credit took the hit for about 12 years.

Live and learn. :wallbash:


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

CA & AZ Builder said:


> Let me see - my biggest costliest mistake, too many to list, ok how about 18 years ago when I invested in a business to the tune of about $400k for equipment, yep I was the finance partner with 2 good friends, lost it all and my credit took the hit for about 12 years.
> 
> Live and learn. :wallbash:


:notworthy:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

We have a winner, folks!


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## Jamie Albert (Feb 5, 2013)

IsmaelAlva said:


> At the end of the job I calculated about 6000.00 on extras for which he was only willing to pay me 1000.00.


What a nice guy!


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

My first wife.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Roofcheck said:


> My first wife.


My third wife. After that, taking a lawyer as a client. :laughing:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I have two memorable ones

Framing a house, setting second floor joists, and I tell cut man we need a bunch of 14' joists for the front. He says all the rest are 16's. Cut em up, I say. Plywood whole deck, start laying out walls, find out the front was supposed to be cantilevered 2 feet.

Got called back to a Mcmansion we had framed a few months prior. GC says that 16 windows we have in a 2 story great room are 24" over from where they should be. By this time, all mechanicals are done, wall is insulated, and cedar siding is complete. We removed a section of siding, built a temp wall, and slid the whole wall over two feet without removing the windows. Siding guy toothed back in the siding, we reinsulated, and GC took care of rewiring and we were golden.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

getting into the trades, becoming a carpenter, becoming a contractor


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## Walter Secore (Jun 2, 2012)

I spent two weeks refinishing a hardwood floor. After labor cost and everything eles I made about $5.00


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

we had to cut out 3 -15 x 12 foot high openings on the side of an existing building, and prep them for storefronts.
we made a large partition covered with plywood to cover these openings when we left each day , which we would screw tight each evening
last day of the project , I left early , and the stucco guy said he`d close up.
he didn`t fasten the partitions . he just slid them in front of the openings , and left
that night we had a bad windy storm.
one of the partitions blew down , and onto a brand new black jaguar , with gold-plated trim.( crushed the hood , and jammed the passenger door closed.
I called the stucco guy and told him , he said " sue me " and hung up.

it happened to belong to the main developer for that area ' in fact he had given this project to the G.C. who subbed it out to me.

that was about 20 years ago , and it cost me $4500


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

I once framed a house with 9' studs and the day we were to set trusses found out that they were supposed to be 8'. Lumber yard sent out the wrong framing package and the other crew framed the house with 8' studs that was supposed to 9' studs. 

I ended up buying a 10 ''1/4 saw and cut all the walls down. The other crew had to tear the walls apart and rebuild. 

The plans had no height diamensions , otherwise it would have been caught early on. This was our first house with this builder and our last. Took 2 years to get our money and soon after he went belly up. 

Alot of other suppliers were not so lucky.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Gary H said:


> I once framed a house with 9' studs and the day we were to set trusses found out that they were supposed to be 8'. Lumber yard sent out the wrong framing package and the other crew framed the house with 8' studs that was supposed to 9' studs.
> 
> I ended up buying a 10 ''1/4 saw and cut all the walls down. The other crew had to tear the walls apart and rebuild.
> 
> ...


Cant believe someone wouldnt take 9' walls over 8's for free. :laughing:


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Cant believe someone wouldnt take 9' walls over 8's for free. :laughing:


That's what I was thinking...now the other guys...not sure an inspector would pass 12" of stacked plates...lol!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Cant believe someone wouldnt take 9' walls over 8's for free. :laughing:


Absolutely a free 9' lid. :thumbsup:


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Absolutely a free 9' lid. :thumbsup:


Ha! My hangers call the ceilings lids...now I do too!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I could go on and on about all the mistakes I've made, some were very costly over the years. It is what has made me who I am today. I graduated with honors from the school of hard knocks. :bangin: :thumbsup:


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Gary H said:


> I once framed a house with 9' studs and the day we were to set trusses found out that they were supposed to be 8'. Lumber yard sent out the wrong framing package and the other crew framed the house with 8' studs that was supposed to 9' studs.
> 
> I ended up buying a 10 ''1/4 saw and cut all the walls down. The other crew had to tear the walls apart and rebuild.
> 
> ...


Semi-related: I recently had an owner ask me to bid an addition, where only one elevation dimension, on one page of the plan set, indicated that the scope included demoing the roof, increasing the height of the walls throughout the house, and adding a new roof, in the existing as well as new part of the house. The owner played dumb about it when I asked. It's still going on, and I firmly believe it's a purposeful attempt to trick a contractor into underbidding the job. It's not going to end well.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Getting married, having kids, starting my own business :w00t::w00t:


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

I once decided that the way to taper a 2x4 was to remove all the safety bits from a table saw and shove the board through in a very ingenious, twisty sort of way that would conclusively show how smart I was. The table saw and I wrestled for a moment or two then the saw threw me to the floor and shot the 2x4 through a nearby, finished wall. Thinking about it still gets my heart racing. As that sort of mistake goes, it was inexpensive.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Sometimes i put down water based floor finish and it's five mils across a 12"x1" section instead of 3 mils. It is perceptible to the human eye and costs me about 300$ every gd time.


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## jaredhvay (Jul 9, 2009)

A freak summer thunderstorm did 20k worth of damage to a big church we were in the process of roofing. We didn't properly dry in the roof for the night, stupid mistake. Let's just say we have a different insurance company now.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Leo G said:


> Getting married, having kids, starting my own business :w00t::w00t:


The first one and the last easily understandable. But the kids, man that as the best part of life.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Neither of them was a mistake, but they are certainly expensive.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

I've never made a mistake in my life, I'm perfect


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## bretth0214 (Sep 20, 2009)

I have had a few jobs where my hourly rate was about as good as a mcdonalds employee, thankfully that hasnt happened to often. But I think my costliest mistakes came from hiring bad sub contractors. I have always thought I was a pretty good judge of character but I have had a few guys make me wonder what the heck I was thinking.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Getting into business with a partner. 


Never again.


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## harrymontana (Dec 27, 2012)

I only got screwed because I trusted too much my client/ supplier/ employee/ spouse/ partner/ whatever stakeholder. Play stupid and always ask 3 times to get things clear so expectations meet reality


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

overanalyze said:


> That's what I was thinking...now the other guys...not sure an inspector would pass 12" of stacked plates...lol!


No, but I can tell you from experience that you can have an engineer approve a 12" pony wall added on top. 

Not my mistake, I was only siding the house. The framers were setting their third truss when they found out the wall was too short


My costliest mistake was taking on too many guys too quick. Had a big siding job and needed guys for it. The amount of work they accomplished each week was less than their wages. I couldn't pay myself anything for a month, and by the time all was said and done I ended up paying 1500 more in labor to side the building than I got paid.


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## jgar (Dec 20, 2010)

Back in the day I was doing a large remodel including a sauna in the basement. After assembling the sauna the directions said apply Thompsons water seal on the door around the glass. 
The ho was not fond of the slight discoloration and asked if we could seal the rest of the interior? I called the manufacturer of the sauna and they said follow directions. Went to call Thompsons and was put on hold for to long and hung up. I assumed everything would be ok. 
As I found out Thompsons has a flash point of 200 deg..... No fires just a smoked out mansion 
I had to gut the sauna. Order red ceder mill it, t&g, and rebuild the walls, ceiling and benches. 
I consider myself lucky. The ho was very understanding and did not ask me to leave.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

Not my mistake but an old thread I remembered:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/ordered-tear-new-house-down-51351/

and the outcome;
www.contractortalk.com/f11/ordered-tear-new-house-down-51351/index6/


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## Kirbyworks (Feb 9, 2013)

I let a builder that I trusted get 3 months behind on paying me. That was a $20K mistake.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> I once decided that the way to taper a 2x4 was to remove all the safety bits from a table saw and shove the board through in a very ingenious, twisty sort of way that would conclusively show how smart I was. The table saw and I wrestled for a moment or two then the saw threw me to the floor and shot the 2x4 through a nearby, finished wall. Thinking about it still gets my heart racing. As that sort of mistake goes, it was inexpensive.


Oh man.. That reminds of once racing to finish a hardwood floor install late on a friday afternoon. (Caution: saw blade accident involved) Against any semblance of judgement, I decided to save time and notch the end of a short board....with the miter saw since the table saw was in use (in similar fashion to using a tile saw). It bound and pulled my hand into the blade. Took about 3/4" of my finger tip off at the base of the finger nail. So I drove myself to the hospital and got it sewn right back on. I don't know how they did it, but I regained my fingertip sensation and the finger nail even grows normally now.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

I was going to dump a small load of dirt and for the life of me, don't now how I missed that red truck in my path :whistling :no:


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

I didn't buy ford stock when it was $1.00 per share 8 months later it was @ $16. While this didn't cost me anything I had 40k @ the time to throw @ it and let my wife talk me out of it.


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

dble post oops


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## killerdecks (Apr 18, 2008)

I don't listen to her financial advice any more


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## JBBS (Jan 17, 2008)

Mike Finley wanted us to all buy Ford stock. He was actually right.


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## Kirbyworks (Feb 9, 2013)

killerdecks said:


> I don't listen to her financial advice any more


:laughing:


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

My costly mistake got me to were I am today... The mistake was knocking down the wrong house (being in the junkyard business when I was young and have nothing to do with the construction)and I end up buying the property instead of going to jail... Which in the end turned up to be a profitable venture and that what motivated me to get into land development when I was in my early 30's because I saw a good way to make money :thumbsup:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Thinking at 23 I was ready to jump into commercial fit ups. $23k sounds like a lot of money when your rent is only $550/month. Lost about $20k on that deal. Worked lots of overtime to afford to pay that bill. 

The place went out of business after being open for one year..


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## ccappaul (Dec 3, 2010)

schaefercs said:


> A few tears ago QUOTE]
> 
> Well said .:clap:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

greg24k said:


> My costly mistake got me to were I am today... The mistake was knocking down the wrong house (being in the junkyard business when I was young and have nothing to do with the construction)and I end up buying the property instead of going to jail... Which in the end turned up to be a profitable venture and that what motivated me to get into land development when I was in my early 30's because I saw a good way to make money :thumbsup:


That's like a story I came across in Colorado in the late 80's. One day I went golfing by myself at one of the public courses somewhere northeast of Boulder, I think. Since I was a single, they said "You will be paired with 'Mr. Goldberg' today (I think that was his name)". He turned out to be a young developer from Chicago who also owned the course. So I asked him how he got into it, and basically he knew zero about the business, but bought a piece of land (small ranch) with some graduation money, thinking he could quickly divide it and sell parcels. But nobody wanted them, so in desperation to avoid losing everything he started putting houses on the little parcels, one by one.

If you know Boulder, you can imagine the rest of the story. At that time the guy has been out there 10 years and he had already made it big for himself. I recall him saying something about everybody willing to pay a premium for a view of the Flatirons, no matter how far away they are.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> That's like a story I came across in Colorado in the late 80's. One day I went golfing by myself at one of the public courses somewhere northeast of Boulder, I think. Since I was a single, they said "You will be paired with 'Mr. Goldberg' today (I think that was his name)". He turned out to be a young developer from Chicago who also owned the course. So I asked him how he got into it, and basically he knew zero about the business, but bought a piece of land (small ranch) with some graduation money, thinking he could quickly divide it and sell parcels. But nobody wanted them, so in desperation to avoid losing everything he started putting houses on the little parcels, one by one.
> 
> If you know Boulder, you can imagine the rest of the story. At that time the guy has been out there 10 years and he had already made it big for himself. I recall him saying something about everybody willing to pay a premium for a view of the Flatirons, no matter how far away they are.


Sometimes you never know... lots of good and profitable can come out of something bad...:thumbsup: 

I've been in a few situations were I thought my investment went into a toilet, but with a little patience and not jumping ship to soon, it even turned out better then I expected...


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

There isn't a page long enough to tell the tale I've lived in the past 4 to 5 years.... absolutely loaded with one bad decision after another all stemming from one major bad decision that have cost so much it hurts my wallet to think about it...... Fortunately I'm still alive and I focus on the positive, like spring fishing season will be here soon:thumbup:


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## tubtime (Jan 1, 2013)

restored a clawfoot tub for a client, and was delivering it. had two straps over the top but left the tailgate down. i arrived and backed up to their house, and just as i noticed the tailgate, hit the curb. clawfoot+hood of clients car= lots of lost money and a red face for days

pipe on roofrack of van, was busy hitting on the girl at the wholesale (my wife now lol) and strapped nothing. a few lengths of 4" abs were one with the rear window of the car in front:sad:

roughed in the wrong house, complete gas,stacks, waterlines, bathuubs , shower valves, contractor refused to pay.....i was working for someone else  at the time


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## Flimmer (Dec 1, 2005)

IsmaelAlva said:


> I did a job for a frien of mine, my initial bid was for 8000.00 but as we progress we added a lot of extras, at the time I tough we were on the same page and he understood that it was going to cost a lot more, but never made him sign a change order. At the end of the job I calculated about 6000.00 on extras for which he was only willing to pay me 1000.00. In business there is no friends or family and if you don't want to loose them write everything and do not assume.


This is not funny, but it's funny because I just went through this with my cousin this past year. He had a rental property and wanted me to side and roof the house. Said he would have extras so I said I'll keep track. No Change orders and he added alot of BS time consuming stuff. I came back with a overly fair price for him and to keep the peace and he still wasn't happy. I stuck to my guns and he paid but he was not happy about it. In the end we shook hands and agreed to not ruin our relationship over it. Most times it doesn't end like that so my advice is to be VERY Honest and don't do ANY extras for ANYONE without a change order signed and agreed on.


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## renov8r (Feb 16, 2013)

a) Let a friend talk me down big time on a job. Drywall ceiling and install laminate floor, just uuder 300 sq.ft. Keeps coming and biting me in the butt every time I'm asked what the budget for their kitchen and bathroom should be, and why its so expensive. 

b) Hiring a friend, who I know has an act for cancelling all the time. Didn't think that he'd cancel on me at 5am the morning of the job. Had used him a few times before, for the same type of job and he likes coming along to do it and making a few extra bucks.


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## harrymontana (Dec 27, 2012)

friends and family in the bizz don't work


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