# Kitchen layout



## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

Hey for you Sparkys. I am laying out this kitchen and come up with 3 circuits.
I hope you make out my plan. 

circuits
1 for 1, 2, 15, 16, 17
1 for 3, 4, 5, 6, 7a, 9, 11
1 for 7b, 8a, 8b, 10,12, 13, 14

NOTE: 7 is 2 switches a does light 11 and b does garb disposal.

This seems pretty spagetti like to me and would like to know if you guys have a better idea? I would like to stay with 3 circuits if possible.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Oh boy Paul, you're in for an edu-mication...


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> Oh boy Paul, you're in for an edu-mication...


I figured as much. I love to learn from the people who know. :thumbup:


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

Yea...he might be....I count 5 maybe 6 if ya want to keep the lights from dipping when ya drop the toaster. But I'm a shade tree electrician.

Frig on her own Paul

Bob


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## [email protected]&R (Jul 26, 2005)

MinConst said:


> Hey for you Sparkys. I am laying out this kitchen and come up with 3 circuits.
> I hope you make out my plan.
> 
> circuits
> ...



If I get this right

You need 2- 20 Amp small appliance circuits in any kitchen nothing else is really allowed to be fed from them. Seperate circuit for fridg, microwave, dishwasher/ GD, and a GFCI on any outlet within 6' of a sink.


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## jbfan (Apr 1, 2004)

GFCI on any counter top rectipicle.


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

I will be using GFCIs on all runs. I kinda figured that to be a given. Sorry I left that out.


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## stars13bars2 (Feb 13, 2005)

Paul
If you are really trying to conserve circuits, the refrigerator is allowed to be on one of the two small appliance circuits. If you go this route you should hit the referigerator receptacle first and then go to the counter area where you can install the GFCI to protect the rest of the receptacles on that circuit. As jbfan says all kitchen counter receptacles require GFCI protection no matter how far from sink. The microwave requires separate circuit if built in. You may want to check with the AHJ on the dishwasher/disposer switched circuit, as it will work but may not pass a strict application of the code. At least one more circuit for the lights, exhaust and stove receptacle. Your two small appliance circuits can supply all wall and floor receptacles in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, but can have no other outlets such as lights, exhaust fans, etc.. You can also hit these other receptacle locations before you get to the GFCI's required on the counters. Looks like at least five circuits to me maybe more. There really is more to this wiring thing than most people realize. 

Hey Paul how much did I er you make laying out this kitchen?


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

stars13bars2 said:


> Hey Paul how much did I er you make laying out this kitchen?


Very little for the layout. This time! :no:


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## stars13bars2 (Feb 13, 2005)

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. :thumbup:


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

Thanks for the help stars


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

1) You need more than one receptacle in the area of #9. That looks like way more than 24"

2) The exhaust is part of the micro. You do not need to count it separeate. I usually install the receptacle for a gas range and a micro/hood together on a circuit since they are in the exact same area.

3)Refer definitely alone, also the micro, DW/disp, 2-4 counter receptacles at most; each on a circuit.

I also come up with 5 ckts minimum.

What about the ligting? No mention of general or task lighing.


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## MinConst (Oct 16, 2004)

Speedy,
Area 9 is only an 18" cab drawing is off. The only light is a single over the sink. #11. The rest of the lights are existing. Just one overhead.


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## wildwood (Mar 31, 2006)

paul, this is my first time at this website so my response might not be as smooth as some of the others. the first mistake that you made is dictating the number of circuits that you want. the total wattage and the number of your loads is what dictates a wattage schedule. if you want to do things the right way then you need to know how things are rated first. typically, all kitchen receptacles are rated at 1000w and with a #12 home run you would put two on a circuit. if you pull 12-3 then you could share the neutral and have two circuits with only one home run. but remember that those conductors need to be on opposite phases in your main panel (someone else can elaborate if you don't understand). if you pull 12-3 then you need to pull into a two gang box or a 4 square with a single gang plaster ring, which ever works for that particular location. anyways, the garbage disposal is rated at 1000w and the dishwasher is rated at 1000w and these are usually on the same circuit. before i forget, you need to remember that a switch is not a load and it doesn't need to be considered when making a wattage schedule. the refrigerator is rated at 1000w and that usually is paired with the closest receptacle - but make sure that you feed the frig first or else you need to feed the frig off of the line side of the gfi (the homeowner won't be happy with a warm fridge if the gfi trips). the receptacle for the gas range is rated at 1000w and is usually paired with a receptacle for the microwave which is also rated at 1000w. we usually rate can lights at 75w and other light fixtures will range anywhere from 75w to 200w (it depends on the # of bulbs and their wattage rating). as far as the exhaust fan goes, i would rate it at 1000w also but you should probably check the current rating (at the proper voltage). you would be better off or may already have a micro/hood which is very popular and kills two birds with one stone at 1000w. if you only have room for 3 circuits in your panel then you may consider piggyback breakers which allow 2 circuits in the space of 1. or add a subpanel. please remember that #12 is rated at 2000watts and #14 is rated at 1500watts and in the kitchen the only #14 you should use is switch legs to your lights. i gotta go dude but i hope this helps. ak


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## CNC (Mar 29, 2006)

heres my input and logic of why i do it. i pair the ignitor for the gas range and hood togther. theres always no matter what in the same area ? true? some of you said the micro and hood. but there not always and in alot of the cases not toghether. alittle over analyzing i guess everyone has their own way. i dedicate the micro, reefer, and run a 3 wire to the dishwasher and disposal so they are dedicated, (and it leaves room on the circuit for an instant hot. and 2 kitchen plug utility circuits. (depending on the size of the kitchen)


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## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

Paul seems to be a a decent person.
However be aware of others who ask for all kinds of information and then have their handymen do the work. I have known g. contractors who call 7 electricians to do an estimate. Obviously a lot of design information is gathered from 7 people to be able to do it `yourself` or your `carpenter` or the other `handymen`.


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## tmdelisle (Jan 10, 2008)

*12-3 .....requires breakers tied together???*



wildwood said:


> paul, this is my first time at this website so my response might not be as smooth as some of the others. the first mistake that you made is dictating the number of circuits that you want. the total wattage and the number of your loads is what dictates a wattage schedule. if you want to do things the right way then you need to know how things are rated first. typically, all kitchen receptacles are rated at 1000w and with a #12 home run you would put two on a circuit. if you pull 12-3 then you could share the neutral and have two circuits with only one home run. but remember that those conductors need to be on opposite phases in your main panel (someone else can elaborate if you don't understand). if you pull 12-3 then you need to pull into a two gang box or a 4 square with a single gang plaster ring, which ever works for that particular location. anyways, the garbage disposal is rated at 1000w and the dishwasher is rated at 1000w and these are usually on the same circuit. before i forget, you need to remember that a switch is not a load and it doesn't need to be considered when making a wattage schedule. the refrigerator is rated at 1000w and that usually is paired with the closest receptacle - but make sure that you feed the frig first or else you need to feed the frig off of the line side of the gfi (the homeowner won't be happy with a warm fridge if the gfi trips). the receptacle for the gas range is rated at 1000w and is usually paired with a receptacle for the microwave which is also rated at 1000w. we usually rate can lights at 75w and other light fixtures will range anywhere from 75w to 200w (it depends on the # of bulbs and their wattage rating). as far as the exhaust fan goes, i would rate it at 1000w also but you should probably check the current rating (at the proper voltage). you would be better off or may already have a micro/hood which is very popular and kills two birds with one stone at 1000w. if you only have room for 3 circuits in your panel then you may consider piggyback breakers which allow 2 circuits in the space of 1. or add a subpanel. please remember that #12 is rated at 2000watts and #14 is rated at 1500watts and in the kitchen the only #14 you should use is switch legs to your lights. i gotta go dude but i hope this helps. ak


Not an electrician....but I've been reading alot of posts and reading some code........My question or comment comes from having looked at other electrical questions ask/answered. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the requirement within 2008 NEC is that with 2-legs of 12-3 powered say on 20A breakers each, the breakers need to be tied-together (so that when one trips so does the other and/or when one is shut off the other is as well - thereby not "leaving" the other line hot when it is believed that the circuit is off???) Now this may be "more" ignorant of me, but with the two breakers side by side will they always be on different phases (legs, or whatever it may be called) particularly in the case of an older 'duplex' breaker?
Thanks guys.......I must say that the elec. forum appears to be very well 'staffed'!!!:thumbsup:


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

tmdelisle said:


> Not an electrician....but I've been reading alot of posts and reading some code........My question or comment comes from having looked at other electrical questions ask/answered. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that the requirement within 2008 NEC is that with 2-legs of 12-3 powered say on 20A breakers each, the breakers need to be tied-together (so that when one trips so does the other and/or when one is shut off the other is as well - thereby not "leaving" the other line hot when it is believed that the circuit is off???) Now this may be "more" ignorant of me, but with the two breakers side by side will they always be on different phases (legs, or whatever it may be called) particularly in the case of an older 'duplex' breaker?
> Thanks guys.......I must say that the elec. forum appears to be very well 'staffed'!!!:thumbsup:


Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Last night?


.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

That's for the 2008 code cycle only.

It's not a bad idea to observe the new code rules, but they aren't required until your state adopts the 2008 NEC.

For instance, here in NJ were are still using the 2005 edition.


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