# Removing tile that is set under base cabinets..



## bujaly

Hey all... Went to look at a tiling job that was in the kitchen. Anyway, there is currently tile there that is failing, in a few spots, nothing major. Just some cracking on a few. I believe due to poor craftsmanship. The homeowner wants new tile and so forth.
The current tile is under the cabinets. I've never removed tile that was under the cabinets, just to the toe-kick. 

What's the procedure for removing the tile? I would assume to just cut the tile where it meets the cabinet, but there is a bit of intrusion from the cabinet face, to the cabinet base. I'm not able to use my grinder with a 4' tile blade to cut it.. I've thought about just using an air-hammer with a chisel, but then with the face of the cabinets there, i would be coming in at about a 30 degree angle which would have me taking out the front of the cabinets base support.
What to do?
I also thought of just laying down laminate right over???? But Not to sure of that..


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## naptown CR

I use a rotary hammer set on hammer only and a wide chisel and break it off at the toekick. Once I add underlayment it covers right up with the tile.


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## gumba

*Offer Options to Deal with the Damage from Tile Demo*

I usually offer some options to resolve the damage that does occur from remove tile at the toe kick that still is set underneath the cabinet base.
One, if possible remove the toe kick prior to demo and rest after demo prior to your install of the tile. Second, you can put ceramic tile onto the toe kick. Third, re laminate or re board the toe kick.


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## kevjob

try the crane toe kick saw with diamond blade and tape off cabinet so no damage to cabinets works great.


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## bujaly

naptown CR said:


> I use a rotary hammer set on hammer only and a wide chisel and break it off at the toekick. Once I add underlayment it covers right up with the tile.


Yeah, i understand that, but as I stated, my concern with that is, the angle I will be coming in at is very low. I will probably end up taking tile that is "under" the cabinets and I'm afraid of disturbing the support that the tile is serving for right now.



gumba said:


> I usually offer some options to resolve the damage that does occur from remove tile at the toe kick that still is set underneath the cabinet base.
> One, if possible remove the toe kick prior to demo and rest after demo prior to your install of the tile. Second, you can put ceramic tile onto the toe kick. Third, re laminate or re board the toe kick.


 lol!! I'm sorry, but I am totally lost on that comment sir. No offense...



kevjob said:


> try the crane toe kick saw with diamond blade and tape off cabinet so no damage to cabinets works great.


That looks like the exact tool I would need. I am going to call my local tool rental tomorrow. Thanks Kevjob!


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## rbsremodeling

tape up the toe kick up real nice. Chipping hammer out the old tile, if you take your time you will get really close with the hammer, put down shoe moulding where the new tile hits the cabinet.

Send Rory 2 dolla


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## WarnerConstInc.

Multimaster, or tell them they should pull the cabinets and counters.


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## PrecisionFloors

kevjob said:


> try the crane toe kick saw with diamond blade and tape off cabinet so no damage to cabinets works great.


Seconded. 

If you are laying laminate I don't see the need in pulling the tile though, unless there is a height issue. If it's on a slab I can't see where a 1/2" would make much of a difference. If its on wood and your pulling tile and backer that makes sense.

edit: You can also tile directly over existing tile, provided it is sound, bonded well (golf ball test it!), and there is NO cracking of tile or grout. Just a thought.


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## rbsremodeling

PrecisionFloors said:


> Seconded.
> 
> *If you are laying laminate I don't see the need in pulling the tile *though, unless there is a height issue. If it's on a slab I can't see where a 1/2" would make much of a difference. If its on wood and your pulling tile and backer that makes sense.
> 
> edit: You can also tile directly over existing tile, provided it is sound, bonded well (golf ball test it!), and there is NO cracking of tile or grout. Just a thought.



He mentioned air chisel to demo the floor. If its laminate tile I need to go stop him pronto


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## dkillianjr

bujaly, I think I know what you are saying, your worried about taking the support away from the bottom of the cabinets. What I have done in the past when doing something like this is just sorta remove the tile infront of one cabinet at a time reshimming as I go as nessesary. Make sure the cabinets are screwed together so one holds the next. Heck you could even have the HO empty the cabinets. 


Dave


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## rsss396375

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Multimaster, or tell them they should pull the cabinets and counters.


Oh come on......that's just trying to take the client for a $ ride. There's no need to do that. The toe kick is the way to go. Follow that line of advice and you will not only do the removal right, your client will appreciate the professionalism:thumbsup:


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## Floordude

Harbor Freight Tools has a Crain toe kick saw knock off. It is about $40


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## Mike Costello

Dont do it , I burned one of those out on one job of ripping up 3/4 ply


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## Floordude

Mike Costello said:


> Dont do it , I burned one of those out on one job of ripping up 3/4 ply



Heck, it paid for itself, and you took it back and got a new one, right? Hehehehe.

Believe it or not, I have had many Harbor Freight Tools last longer than I ever expected. I have been using one of their cheap table saws for the easy work, for 9 years now.


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## WarnerConstInc.

rsss396375 said:


> Oh come on......that's just trying to take the client for a $ ride. There's no need to do that. The toe kick is the way to go. Follow that line of advice and you will not only do the removal right, your client will appreciate the professionalism:thumbsup:


Not if they are willing to pay for it. Seriuosly, how much longer would it take to do what I said vs. dicking around trying to get that tile out from under the toe kick. What about where the fridge is or the dishwasher?


Take 4 hours to pull the counter and lowers in a modest sized kitchen?

How much time and effort will go into messing around trying to get the tile from under the kicks?


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## user3321

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Not if they are willing to pay for it. Seriuosly, how much longer would it take to do what I said vs. dicking around trying to get that tile out from under the toe kick. What about where the fridge is or the dishwasher?
> 
> 
> Take 4 hours to pull the counter and lowers in a modest sized kitchen?
> 
> How much time and effort will go into messing around trying to get the tile from under the kicks?



My thoughts exactly. Just pull the bases and be done with it. It'll ultimately save you a lot of frustration, and you'll get a better looking finished product than a "lop and butt."


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## Mike Costello

Actually it did make me four times what I paid for it on that job , but the 3/4 ply with the ceramic residue proved to be too much for it. 

It went into the bin of unwanted and broken tools at the warehouse....Along with the bucket saw.


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## Mike Costello

If I ever was on a job and told my customer- contractor-or store owner- that I needed to pull out cabinets to rip up and install a new floor I would be takin Barista lessons in no time


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## kevjob

eindecker said:


> My thoughts exactly. Just pull the bases and be done with it. It'll ultimately save you a lot of frustration, and you'll get a better looking finished product than a "lop and butt."



:blink:


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## RLKMarble

If its that difficult, can you pull the toe kick? Most toe kicks come off without a problem.


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## bujaly

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the info. I'm just gonna rent a toe-kick saw from ABC rental. 30 bucks a day, charge them 60.


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## neolitic

Mike Costello said:


> ....Along with the *bucket saw.*


What's a bucket saw? :blink:


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## PrecisionFloors

neolitic said:


> What's a bucket saw? :blink:


It is a cheap jigsaw mounted upside down on a phenolic plate that fits on a 5 gallon bucket. Idea is the dust falls (mostly) in the bucket and it is portable so you set it right next to your work area. Good idea, poor execution imo.

I do the same thing with a 25gal plastic trash can and my Dewalt jigsaw....waste goes right in the can and gets NO dust on the floor, just as portable and I ain't gotta pay $200 for a $30 saw :whistling


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## neolitic

Well, 
I'll be jiggered!
Never saw one of those. :blink:


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## Floordude

Cut a hole in the bottom of the bucket for your shop vac hose, and holes in the bucket table, to allow it to suck the dust. Hook both the vac and saw to a power strip with an on off switch.


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## Mike Costello

5 points for the use of the word phenolic


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## mrwoodman

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Not if they are willing to pay for it. Seriuosly, how much longer would it take to do what I said vs. dicking around trying to get that tile out from under the toe kick. What about where the fridge is or the dishwasher?
> 
> 
> Take 4 hours to pull the counter and lowers in a modest sized kitchen?
> 
> How much time and effort will go into messing around trying to get the tile from under the kicks?


Hmm, what if there's ceramic backsplash or wallpaper or even a flushmount top? Would you be taking that cab out and replacing everything to its original state to meet the customers satisfaction? If yes, now how much time and money is it? "Extra Add-on" $$ 

Ron


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## WarnerConstInc.

mrwoodman said:


> Hmm, what if there's ceramic backsplash or wallpaper or even a flushmount top? Would you be taking that cab out and replacing everything to its original state to meet the customers satisfaction? If yes, now how much time and money is it? "Extra Add-on" $$
> 
> Ron


It will cost what it costs. I know there are some unknown variables but, I would definatley offer up some options.

I really refuse to go around cabinets and in front of Dishwashers.

Thats just how I roll. Usually you can sell them on a new top and maybe add a backsplash as well.


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## bujaly

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It will cost what it costs. I know there are some unknown variables but, I would definatley offer up some options.
> 
> I really refuse to go around cabinets and in front of Dishwashers.
> 
> Thats just how I roll. Usually you can sell them on a new top and maybe add a backsplash as well.


Well, to be honest, these HO's should be charged for taking the cabinets out. They decided to get a new kitchen and did everything besides the floor. Which I don't understand because, it was failing to begin with. Whoever did the kitchen did not sell them on a new floor.. I don't get it.


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## WarnerConstInc.

bujaly said:


> Well, to be honest, these HO's should be charged for taking the cabinets out. They decided to get a new kitchen and did everything besides the floor. Which I don't understand because, it was failing to begin with. Whoever did the kitchen did not sell them on a new floor.. I don't get it.


 
My point exactley. Someone left money on the table. Sometimes all it takes is asking the right questions.

I will probably end up straight into a kitchen after I finshed a bathroom, all because of flooring in a hallway. You just have to strike up the right conversation and ask the right questions.


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## tyler durden

gumba has it right!


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## J&M

just got done with similar job, 4 vanities in one bathroom. Tile went 3" under vanities. 10" tiles went to replace with 14"s had no problem. Started in the middle of the room w/a pneumatic tile chisel. Once I got to the tile in the cabinet, the hardy board and mastic popped, scooted the tile and board out at the same time. Also had the same thing on concrete floor, was even easier, mastic popped right up. Cut the new tile 1/2" under vanities.


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## MZ-HANDYMAN

I have to agree with the MULTIMASTER comment, But if you don't have one the Harbor Freight Multitool is a very good copy of the Multimaster, You'll have to buy the diamond blade (DO NOT BUY THE GROUT BLADE)
The diamond blade is about 3" Dia. Use it to score the tiles right at the cabinet and when you pop them up (Cross your fingers) they should snap on your line. I did a restroom floor that had the tiles go under the cabinet but didn't want to mess with the old plumbing so I didn't remove the (Double Vanity Cabinet).
I actually just busted the tiles out and anything that was flush or sticking out I busted it with a cold chisel. Lots of work Bid accordingly.

If you have a small air hammer the wide blade will work well for you but wear eye and ear protction.


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## AcademyHardwood

Tile under the cabinets ? literally under the cabinet. This is funny since tile are an aesthetic item within the home. What good is an aesthetic item if it is not visible ?


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## Plumber_Bill

On this post some are talking about new underlayment and then new tile.
Others are talking tile over tile. 

With the trend today Granite Tops.

This plumber asks. Are future dishwasher replacements being considered, when you are raising floor height?

I mentioned Granite ... Formica tops could be unscrewed and pried up a bit. Not so with the new materials for tops. 

Want to see a ticked off customer when they are told I can't get the D/W
out because your flooring man raised the floor.


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## TileLady

Plumber_Bill said:


> On this post some are talking about new underlayment and then new tile.
> Others are talking tile over tile.
> 
> With the trend today Granite Tops.
> 
> This plumber asks. Are future dishwasher replacements being considered, when you are raising floor height?
> 
> I mentioned Granite ... Formica tops could be unscrewed and pried up a bit. Not so with the new materials for tops.
> 
> Want to see a ticked off customer when they are told I can't get the D/W
> out because your flooring man raised the floor.


The OP said their kitchen was already redone so I don't think those would be issues. At the very least, the OP should mention this to the customers as a precaution.


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## AcademyHardwood

Laying the Laminate Right over the tile is fine. You can also decide to cut into the tile (which would be hard because of where it is positioned) and remove the excess parts that you have no use for.


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## HomerJ

Bidding on a job that has this exact problem.

Newer home. Kitchen is in good shape. Granite top and backsplash.

Customer is dead set on leaving cabinets in place. 

I plan to remove the toe kick, then tape the finished end panels and the peninsula. 

I just bought a new Rigid tool, (multimaster knockoff) so we'll see how it works.

This customer is going with a 3/4 hardwood throughout. 

I'm still undecided about what to do under the dishwasher. She wants to leave it alone, but I'm not sure that's going to work.


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## Mike Finley

HomerJ said:


> Bidding on a job that has this exact problem.
> 
> Newer home. Kitchen is in good shape. Granite top and backsplash.
> 
> Customer is dead set on leaving cabinets in place.
> 
> I plan to remove the toe kick, then tape the finished end panels and the peninsula.
> 
> I just bought a new Rigid tool, (multimaster knockoff) so we'll see how it works.
> 
> This customer is going with a 3/4 hardwood throughout.
> 
> I'm still undecided about what to do under the dishwasher. She wants to leave it alone, but I'm not sure that's going to work.


I would not even waste my time trying to use that tool to do that.

Buy the Crane toe kick saw, that's what it is for. We completed a job just like this about a month ago and while using the toe kick saw, the thoughts going through my mind the whole time, were "thank God we bought this tool, I can't even imagine trying to do this with our multi-master!)

You'll still need the multi master to get the inside corners.


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## Snobnd

Mike Finley said:


> I would not even waste my time trying to use that tool to do that.
> 
> Buy the Crane toe kick saw, that's what it is for. We completed a job just like this about a month ago and while using the toe kick saw, the thoughts going through my mind the whole time, were "thank God we bought this tool, I can't even imagine trying to do this with our multi-master!)
> 
> You'll still need the multi master to get the inside corners.


I did a Flooring job last year and had the same problem, Mike is right on this one. Toe kick saw was a life saver- If you look at the damage to the Plywood - I had to remove that also.


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## send_it_all

HomerJ said:


> Bidding on a job that has this exact problem.
> 
> Newer home. Kitchen is in good shape. Granite top and backsplash.
> 
> Customer is dead set on leaving cabinets in place.
> 
> I plan to remove the toe kick, then tape the finished end panels and the peninsula.
> 
> I just bought a new Rigid tool, (multimaster knockoff) so we'll see how it works.
> 
> This customer is going with a 3/4 hardwood throughout.
> 
> I'm still undecided about what to do under the dishwasher. She wants to leave it alone, but I'm not sure that's going to work.


I would probably pop one tile in front of the dishwasher. raise the feet on the d/w as high as they go and if you can't slide a piece of the hardwood flooring under it, refuse to do the job. Or, BIG BOLD PRINT in the contract stating that the customer knows they are trapping the d/w and wanted to proceed anyway.


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## calhomeremodel

I came across this problem recently. We used the grinder to get as close as we could. We then scored the tile with a sharp chisel. It is a difficult angle so we covered the cabinet with a moving blanket to reduce the risk of cabinet damage. We then worked on the tile from the limited angles allowed and eventually removed the tile. I have since purchased a Fein Multi Master, which is a high powered chisel, grinder,etc. I believe this will decrease the labor next time.


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## HomerJ

Mike Finley said:


> I would not even waste my time trying to use that tool to do that.
> 
> Buy the Crane toe kick saw, that's what it is for. We completed a job just like this about a month ago and while using the toe kick saw, the thoughts going through my mind the whole time, were "thank God we bought this tool, I can't even imagine trying to do this with our multi-master!)
> 
> You'll still need the multi master to get the inside corners.


The Crain does look perfect. 

Looks like I can get one for about $275. Thanks for the advice


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## Mike Finley

Good luck with it. Test it out a few times before you make your first cuts and keep a firm grip on it or you'll come back here missing a finger or two.


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