# How much/How Long?



## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Let's "play the game" two ways:
How long?
How much?

The given task is:
Lighting in a hair salon....
2x4 lay-in fixtures...
relamp/reballast or replace...PER fixture...
12' high ceilings...
possibly "off hours"(when salon is CLOSED). 
F32T8 in all scenarios


This is what I got:
Relamp/reballast: 1.5 hrs or $185.71
Replace: 1.4 hrs or $180.44


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

I think you could cut back the time on the change out price to just 1 hour per fixture taking handling of the fixtures into account. The redo time of 1.5 hr looks very realistic (it could be tight if there is furniture or stock to move around for ladder placement).


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> I think you could cut back the time on the change out price to just 1 hour per fixture taking handling of the fixtures into account.


Have you taken into account the windex/paper towel treatment for both lens and fixture?




randomkiller said:


> The redo time of 1.5 hr looks very realistic (it could be tight if there is furniture or stock to move around for ladder placement).


You be the judge...I'm sure you've seen the typical NJ hair salon :thumbsup:.


Hotties probably won't be a distraction when this job gets done


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

I do quite a few electronic ballast retrofits. Two 2-lamp magnetic for one four lamp electronic with new F32T8/741.

We are down to 15-18 minutes per fixture (depending on terrain), and yes, this does include cleaning the lens and moving the ladder. 
I forget what I figure in time for each in pricing them. I think it's just under an hour.

I have to say though, there is NO way I could get $185.71 per fixture around here. 




Celtic said:


> Have you taken into account the windex/paper towel treatment for both lens and fixture?


....and marking the old fixture "T-8 LAMPS ONLY" with a sharpie marker.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

4 to 4 [email protected] 12 ft. I can do at least 4 per hour probably more but I've done a bunch. However, if I was doing that job it would probably be a 4 to 2 with new centering brackets and a new reflector. Takes that fixture from 1.5 amps to .5 amps with more foot candles. I can still do 4 an hour . Just a thought.


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## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

If the salon is closed, are you including overtime? If yes, I think you are in the ballpark, but on the high side.


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## kbsparky (Oct 14, 2007)

fridaymean said:


> .... I think you are in the ballpark, but on the high side.


Not for New Jersey, I would stipulate. :whistling


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Have you taken into account the windex/paper towel treatment for both lens and fixture?
> 
> Yup, I think once you get rolling it will be more like two or three an hour.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, that part has to suck. I like being distracted like that at Dr.'s offices.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

fridaymean said:


> If the salon is closed, are you including overtime? If yes, I think you are in the ballpark, but on the high side.


Night time differential @15%


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## Jim M (Jun 7, 2007)

Don't forget to figure your disposal or recycle costs into the job.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

We're getting 40 cents for non pcb's but only one place in denver pays that.


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

Jim M said:


> Don't forget to figure your disposal or recycle costs into the job.


 
Funny you bring that up. I have been taking a lot of stuff to the junkyard lately and it makes a difference. My new apprentice wasn't into junkin copper like all the other ones I've had, so on his first job with me we ran a load to the scrap yard, his eyes popped out when he saw the cash.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

randomkiller said:


> ... his eyes popped out when he saw the cash.


Obviously, it was a mistake letting him ride shotgun :laughing: :laughing:


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## randomkiller (Sep 22, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Obviously, it was a mistake letting him ride shotgun :laughing: :laughing:


No he's a good guy, newly married and really needs the money but he insists that we split it. He even tried to give some to the boss and he just laughed at him. I have always given the scrap to the apprentices', that's how it was when I started out. I told him to take it and buy his tools.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Just teasing you.

Apprentices always get the "mongo".


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

"mongo"?
Round here we call it "rabbit", and the cutters' to cut big wire we call "rabbit gun", (that is if they're being used to cut scrap into carryable pieces)

The story for the term(which I this was BS) was guys would hide the scrap in the bushes, then when officials/company guys weren't around, they'd say they were going rabbit hunting.
Though most the time the company doesn't care, and the JW's always pass it down to the apprentices(same needs/less pay).
The last big one was 10k in rabbit, the company took that but we got OT to pull it out.


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## GSE (Aug 24, 2007)

Jim M said:


> Don't forget to figure your disposal or recycle costs into the job.


 
The guys thinking the $180 is high, can not be in business, they must be working for someone else, or have other income to rely on, if they were in business they would soon realize $180 was more like a break even price.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Oh really? And you know this because you are in business? 

I happen to be in business and $185 PER BALLAST is WAY high for a multi fixture job in my area. For one ballast I can see it, considering service call rates and trip charges. 
If I can change four ballast an hour do you think I can justify $740 for that hour?
When I do these change-outs I typically do 50 or more ballasts.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Also GSE, how about you fill out your location so we can get a clue about where you're coming from?


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

I've never understood the logic of relamping nad re-ballasting old fixtures- it seems that every time I've priced that against just replacing the fixtures entirely, it's alway more cost effective to just change the fixtures. And in the end, the end up looking better anyway.


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