# fabric VS liquid liner



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Soooo, on the 3/4" your using some gravel or just the Mapecem? Jus wonderin


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Tech Dawg said:


> Soooo, on the 3/4" your using some gravel or just the Mapecem? Jus wonderin


Just the Mapecem. It's not a concrete repair so no gravel needed. 

It is a screed mortar...just that it's fast setting. And they're not kidding. 20 minutes and the used is garbage. 

_"For building shower bases and curbs up to 4""_


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

angus242 said:


> Just the Mapecem. It's not a concrete repair so no gravel needed.
> 
> It is a screed mortar...just that it's fast setting. And they're not kidding. 20 minutes and the used is garbage.
> 
> _"For building shower bases and curbs up to 4""_


did you switch techniques? i swear i read a post from you somewhere maybe a year or so ago talking about using some gravel with cement on TOP so the water can have an un impeded path to the weep holes.

maybe you were just being sarcastic...


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

This is my first mortar pan in almost 5 years. Previous to my Kerdi pans, I would use whatever was available. I believe at one time I had a bag of pea gravel. I eventually used spacers (cheaper). Then I just switched to Kerdi-Drains to eliminated weep holes altogether.


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## tileman420 (Sep 13, 2011)

I usually pour a sand mix and get my slope there from the bottom of the flange, let cure, roll on a coat of red-gaurd, run a bead of silicone around the grove in the flange, install a 40 mill rubber liner over the sand mix, atleast 8 inches up the sides, making hospital corners, cut drain out and screw down top flange, make sure you cut the hole drain outso you can see your weep holes, now TEST!! Now i do throw some pea gravel down around the drain, to prevent the weep holes from clogging, set drain according to your tile, so it will be flush with drain with thinset, i pour a two inch mortar mix to bury the liner, no aggrogates! Type s, let cure and tile on, i have never had one leak like this yet, knock on wood,


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Great flood test picture.

Nice work!!!

Yes all the liquids change colour when you flood them out. When you drain them mark the line and you have a perfect reference point to lay tile from.

How long did you let it sit? 24, 48 or 72 hours?

JW


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

I can't wait for my next shower... I'm going to take some Fuuu-nnny pictures of a flood test... :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Tech Dawg said:


> I can't wait for my next shower *R-E-M-O-D-E-L*


I fixed it just so you don't scare any little children. :jester:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

angus242 said:


> I fixed it just so you don't scare any little children. :jester:


...thanks... :shifty:


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

Tech Dawg said:


> I can't wait for my next shower... I'm going to take some Fuuu-nnny pictures of a flood test... :laughing:


I'm looking forward to some flood test pictures. And depending on how fast the postman is you might even get your new pencil in the picture!

JW


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

John do you do a liquid membrane, do you use fabric on the corners of the pan only or on all inside corners? Isn't the fabric pretty expensive?


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

bluebird5 said:


> John do you do a liquid membrane, do you use fabric on the corners of the pan only or on all inside corners? Isn't the fabric pretty expensive?


I use it both ways. Depends on the install.

If you have a huge area to waterproof and your going over a well cured drypack (4-1) I would use the fabric everywhere. I think I pay about .33 square foot for the stuff.

A friend of mine struggled recently with a flood test using Hydro Ban and I think it was do to going over the dry pack to soon. I have had similar issues myself when expiermenting with the product. It is not the Hydro Ban or the Aqua D at fault but the moisture content in the dry pack.

There lies the largest benefit with sheet membranes. Speed.

I did an expeirment as I often do this month with Aqua Defense and drypack. I installed some Mapei 4-1 on one half of a test sample and Mapei Mapecem Fast Setting Screed Mortar on another. I let both dry for three days and set only 1/2" of product.

I used Aqua Defense to cover both samples and flood tested them.

Day one. Both sample where perfect and held water.

Day two. Both sample held water but small blisters appeared in the drypack sample.

Day three. Both samples held water but larger blister appeared.

In this same expeirment I also used some fabric in the field to see if it would negate the blistering process. It did not but it did lesson the size of them.

I have seen these blisters before and usually where I have dropped some thinset over a dry pack.

I have received further training on Mapei's products from both my reps Al and Dave and I was most impressed with Mapei's T2 a new product not yet released in North America. The closest thing we have to it hear in North America is Mapecem Fast Setting Screed Mortar.

I'm hooked. The Mapecem Fast Setting Screed Mortar showed no blistering at all.

Over Christmas I wanted to test if I can cover Mapecem Fast Setting Screed Mortar with Aqua Defence in 24 hours. This is allowed by the spec sheets but I have not tried it at all. I'll try it in my wife's laundry room before I use it on a paying job's home.

I phone my Laticrete rep and asked if they had a competive product to the Mapecem Fast Setting Screed mortar and they do not. They have 3701 which is great to work with and fast curing as well but you should wait at least 72 hours before Hydro Banning.

I'm going to check this as well since we do so much work here with Laticrete's products. Latecrete's product are my go to refferal for the DIY home owner since they can get a 25 year warranty.

Most of my setters use Mapei so I give them Aqua D.

Any steamer build gets Noble Seal TS.

Different options for different warranties and setters.

JW


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Jdub,
I'm off until next week so I decided to practice my flood test skills in the kitchen...............................

:laughing::laughing::lol:


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

:laughing:


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## Mike- (Aug 20, 2011)

Tech Dawg said:


> :laughing:


You guys are hilarious.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Leave it out long enough and maybe one of the girls will put a hole in it.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

That's funny...


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## ee3 (Feb 10, 2006)

if everything is done right..For the most part a sheet membrane will have a better perm rating then a liquid..
IE: Laticrete perm rating over 2.--Nobleseal perm rating less then 1. (kerdi between us)
Makes Nobleseal twice as good!!:clap::thumbup::thumbsup::drink::


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

ee3 said:


> if everything is done right..For the most part a sheet membrane will have a better perm rating then a liquid..
> IE: Laticrete perm rating over 2.--Nobleseal perm rating less then 1. (kerdi between us)
> Makes Nobleseal twice as good!!:clap::thumbup::thumbsup::drink::


How is that possible? A liquid membrane has no seams.


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

John thanks for the response. I always like reading what you have to say because you have such enthusiasm about product testing. Wow that fabric is cheap. For that price you might as well use it.


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