# BEHR Paint Problem Please advise



## api11296 (Apr 7, 2008)

I have been painting for over 25 years and resently used BEHR paint to paint a house. I am having two problems with the paint and have been testing over the last two weeks to fix it.

I have used BEHR before with no issues.

APPLICATION:
First I primed with tinted primer. (SPRAY) The finish was streaked with shiny and flat stripes up and down the walls and ceilings at every 8 to 12 inches and with a blotchy effect, simular to a lepord pattern also with the shiny flat effect. The blotchy pattern looks lighter and flatter in the centers and shinnier and darker at the edges. I was not concerned at that point because it was primer.

The house was left overnight to dry. One coat of BEHR Flat Pastel base Paint was applied by two spray guys and two different rigs and on different floors. The initial wet finish looked like glass. The final finish looked exactly like the primed finish.

TESTING:

First we resprayed and back rolled the ceilings on the second floor. The finished effect was the same. Another coat of paint was applied and still it looks the same.

Second we sprayed Sherwin Williams flattest paint on the first floor ceiling. The finished effect was the same.

Thrid we prep coated the first floor ceiling. You could still see the blotchy effect and stripes through the prep coat.

Forth we re-painted the first floor ceiling and short of filling in the texture effect, no change.

Fifth we kilzed the second floor ceiling with kilz latex, (not oil based, as it would increase the blotchy effect), and you could see the blotchy effect and the stripes through it as well.

Sixth we painted it with Sherwin Williams Pro Mar 400 and the effect still came through.

Seventh we applied one more coat of BEHR and still it came through.

TO CLAIRIFY:

There are 5 to 7 different coats of different materials on two floors of this house now on very long ceilings. We tried different tips, rigs, spray guys, and various primers; all to no avail. 

There are shiny to flat to shiny to flat and so on stripes on the walls and spraying the other direction does not cure it. 

When looking directly at the walls you can see that they are blotchy through out the ENTIRE house. 

Two experienced painters with over 15 years on one and over 25 years on my end both come up with the same issues no matter what we have tried.

The drywall is a Mexican style with mostly a flat surface with occasional dips and is level.

Looking one way down the wall the lines disappear, for instance: There is a slider at one end of the room where natural light comes in, when you stand with your back to the slider the lines disappear, and when you face the slider they reappear. This is the same for the entire house, when you face the light the are there when you turn away and look with the light they dissapear, but are not shadows.

I got a big problem and am willing to try just about anything to fix it, even retexturing the whole house. 

SOLUTION:

Desperately seeking one as the time and money now in this house is a fortune. If you have ever experienced this with any paint especially BEHR paint please let me know.

I HAVE PICTURES AND VIDEO!


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## DeanV (Feb 20, 2006)

Are you sure it is not some stain bleeding through the finish coats? I would try an oil primer and then topcoat with something from SW or BM.


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## api11296 (Apr 7, 2008)

*Not Stain, New Consruction*

This is house is brand new! That is the problem. I know that it is with the primer and/or paint, but I can't figure out what would be bleeding through 5 to 7 coats of paint, prep-coat, and KILZ.


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## painterofeveryt (Apr 8, 2005)

how would oil based kilz increase the blotchy effect ?and even if the kilz was blotchy,it is only the primer coat,meaning it may in fact seal in your problem(and it sounds to be like you may have bad drywall or contaminated mud.....


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## api11296 (Apr 7, 2008)

*We're running tests on the mud.*

In my experience on smooth walls is that oil baised KILZ flashes even worse then what I am experiencing now. I am painting with Flat paint except in the kitchens and bathrooms. Keep in mind that I have prep coated the entire downstairs ceiling and one wall and latex KILZed the second floor one, I am at a loss


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## mmelch (Apr 1, 2008)

*It's the paint*

I've haved similar experience with that paint. sometimes it works fine and other times its a diasaster no matter what I've done. I try to convince my clients not to use the stuff anymore.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

i never liked that paint


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## mmelch (Apr 1, 2008)

*binz*

When every other primer fail, there's alway binz shellac. good luck man


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## painterofeveryt (Apr 8, 2005)

would have to agree about the binz...a great primer,good luck !


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## Paintpimp (Nov 15, 2006)

5-7 Coats? How long are you waiting between each of these coats. One of the worst things you can do is add another coat of latex right now. You are going to have to wait and see how it flashes. All that water has to go somewhere.


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## Faron79 (Nov 29, 2007)

*Primer & Dry-times?*

1) What exact primer were you using?
2) Do the "phantom-stripes" correspond to the edges/overlaps of your spray-pattern? It sounds like the same kinda pattern!
3) The blotchiness at the center of the spray path could be your gun/nozzle?!

>>> My best guess is something's up with your sprayer.
* If the primer was "striped" and thinner/blotchy in the centers, then there's not enough primer to prevent lotsa flashing.
* The overlapped edges (the "stripes") have essentially 2 coats, while the middle barely has one!
* If this is the case...this kind of effect will happen for a while!
* Mainly due to the greatly varying absorptions that are just multiplying themselves now.

Paintpimp hit another quite possible issue...your wait-time between coats of all that paint! There's SO MUCH water comin' off those walls now, that the undercoats are barely drying. Then they're hit with another coat...and the flashing continues....because of trapped moisture.

Faron


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

Wait a week for all 7 coats of paint to try , ditch the kilz and behr , try something (anything) except from the big box store, and you should be good to go.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

Kilz original oil is still all right but Kilz latex products are worth crap...


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## phigregg (Feb 12, 2008)

behr paint is the worst, I don't care what the consumer mags say. I would turn down a job before using it. If I have a problem with ben moore, the store that sold it to me will come out and if they don't know a ben moore rep will come out. Guess that does not help on this job tho. sorry about that


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## artinall (Aug 14, 2007)

I've had problems with both latex kilz (ignore product claims) and Behr.


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## api11296 (Apr 7, 2008)

Faron79 said:


> 1) What exact primer were you using?
> 2) Do the "phantom-stripes" correspond to the edges/overlaps of your spray-pattern? It sounds like the same kinda pattern!
> 3) The blotchiness at the center of the spray path could be your gun/nozzle?!
> 
> ...


We used the primer the BEHR tells us to use, Behr K-10 White base and we tinted it the wall color. Shewin Williams Camel Back, a darker color. 

Yes, the pattern is associated with our spray pattern. However, when we finished spraying it was so even that you can see a reflection, just like a mirror, it looks like a sheet of glass when wet. I have video of myself and my spray guy spraying because BEHR told me it was something we were doing wrong.

It is not my gun or nozzle or spray rig. During my testing we used two different rigs made by two different manufactures, at different preasures, and so on. All to the same result.

The primer was applied in the same manner as the paint, to achieve an even wet coat, and it too looked perfect when wet.

One day was given between each coat on the test ceilings. The third floor sat over 7 days with just one coat of primer and one coat of flat paint and I repainted it myself. I sprayed it length ways and now the lines are long ways down the room with a cross hatch sort of pattern coming through underneath.

The bathrooms are eggshell paint and have one coat of primer and one coat of eggshell. There were three days of dry time between the primer and the eggshell and the splotchy effect is worst in these areas. These walls were completely dry.

QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:

I am using BEHR paint because the coporation that owns my company also owns BEHR and opened this shop to use BEHR. I have never had this experience with any other type of paint. 

The pastel base that I am using to tint this particular color has a lot of C colorant in it. Have you ever experienced issues with a finish because of colorant. Colorant particualry takes a very long time to dry, we have our own tint machine and the colorant takes days to dry out in a scooped out container, where paint is mere minutes to a couple of hours in comparison. 

I noticed that when the paint was in our spray bin that the colorant was sort of separating from the paint, could it have done the same thing on the walls? We box all of our paint together prior to spraying it on the walls to avoid touch-up problems. It was thouroughly shaken a day before we sprayed and boxed immediately prior to application.

With all of the different things we have tried, I know that it is not how or what we used to put the paint on with. Our methods are proven and the initial wet surface perfect. The issue must have something to to with the product or the dry wall. 

I am letting this house sit while they get their cabinets and wood beams in. It has been over a week since we applied our last coat to the first and second floor ceilings. Most of the walls and ceilings have sat since the day we finish coated them.


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

Burn the place down in the middle of night, let them collect insurance, and start fresh next time with a better paint....

























That was a joke.


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## OraarO (Oct 7, 2007)

Any chance you sprayed an oil base or some other product last time, and now spraying latex - it mixes with residual material left from last application?


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## Paintpimp (Nov 15, 2006)

api11296 said:


> I am using BEHR paint because the coporation that owns my company also owns BEHR and opened this shop to use BEHR. I have never had this experience with any other type of paint.


That's the first of your problems. If this is your first experience with Behr, get used to it. 
We feel for you man.


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## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

api11296 said:


> I am using BEHR paint because the coporation that owns my company also owns BEHR and opened this shop to use BEHR. I have never had this experience with any other type of paint.


Doesn't Masco own Behr? and lot fo other companies including Kilz?


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