# latex over high, gloss oil??



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I need to paint a bathroom ceiling that is presently coated with a high gloss oil. I am going to recoat with latex.

My plan is to slightly rough-up the gloss finish and cost with a binding primer, then coat as normal with SW flat ceiling paint.

Your thoughts please?

I seem to be getting some conflicting reports on latex over oil. The above listed steps are what the manufacture suggested. But, I wanted to get your opinions as well.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

jb4211 said:


> I need to paint a bathroom ceiling that is presently coated with a high, gloss oil. I am going to resist with latex.
> 
> My plan is to slightly rough-up the gloss finish and cost with a binding primer, then cost as normal with SW flat ceiling paint.
> 
> ...


As long as you prime it, you're fine. Pros on other sites have recommended 100% acrylic bonding primers over glossy oils. BTW, SW is having their 30% off paint sale this coming week. Good timing.


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

I urge you to use Zinsser Cover Stain Oil based primer on the current ceiling to transition it to a latex top coat of your choice. (I don't use any Kilz products)

Clean, lightly sand the oil base ceiling with #150. Wipe down with mineral spirits. Apply oil based primer - will dry in 45 min. Lightly sand it with #150 - #220. Lightly wipe with rag/water. Apply 2 coats latex finish.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

A thread of interest:

http://www.painttalk.com/f6/best-primer-over-oil-7865/


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

We Fix Houses said:


> I urge you to use Zinsser Cover Stain Oil based primer


Zinsser FTW!!!


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

tedanderson said:


> Zinsser FTW!!!


Yep, oil primer and paint as you wish!


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

yeah, clean with tsp, rinse, zinsser oil, paint.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> As long as you prime it, you're fine. Pros on other sites have recommended 100% acrylic bonding primers over glossy oils. BTW, SW is having their 30% off paint sale this coming week. Good timing.


Those 30% off sales still didn't beat my contractor discount when I used to do business with SW.

I would use oil base primer and not bother washing. Or if still available I would just recoat with flat oil.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

avenge said:


> Those 30% off sales still didn't beat my contractor discount when I used to do business with SW.
> 
> I would use oil base primer and not bother scuffing or washing.


I always wash off any dirt and film layer. Why wouldn't you want to start with a clean substrate for best adhesion? Are you a sadist, do you want callbacks? :blink:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

avenge said:


> Those 30% off sales still didn't beat my contractor discount when I used to do business with SW.
> 
> I would use oil base primer and not bother scuffing or washing.


Interesting. I use one of my painter's account numbers and it's a little better than his discount. He's got 5 guys running 6 days/week all the time, and buys mainly SW.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

The 1,2,3 is spec'd for this as well! It's about all I ever use anymore.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

avenge said:


> Those 30% off sales still didn't beat my contractor discount when I used to do business with SW.
> 
> I would use oil base primer and not bother washing. Or if still available I would just recoat with flat oil.


I have an account at SW and I get 15% off.
Not sure how or why they'd give you such a huge discount. I think 10-20% off of list is pretty standard, over 20%? Over 30% and something's wrong somewhere.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Kilz oil will work too. :thumbsup:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

m1911 said:


> I always wash off any dirt and film layer. Why wouldn't you want to start with a clean substrate for best adhesion? Are you a sadist, do you want callbacks? :blink:


I've never had a callback for my workmanship in 25 years. So do you wash every surface you paint?



jb4211 said:


> I have an account at SW and I get 15% off.
> Not sure how or why they'd give you such a huge discount. I think 10-20% off of list is pretty standard, over 20%? Over 30% and something's wrong somewhere.


I had a very good, long relationship with the manager and employees at my SW, I knew her the day she started. I got constant referrals from them. I quit doing business with SW and if it wasn't for that particular store I would have left them much sooner.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

avenge said:


> I've never had a callback for my workmanship in 25 years. So do you wash every surface you paint?
> 
> ...


kitchen and bath gloss, yes.
I don't paint often, I got a good painter. :blink:


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I do paint often and yes, I do wash or wipe down the surface first - ALWAYS.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

jb4211 said:


> I have an account at SW and I get 15% off.
> Not sure how or why they'd give you such a huge discount. I think 10-20% off of list is pretty standard, over 20%? Over 30% and something's wrong somewhere.



This is standard for SW. If you buy enough volume in a year, you may be able to get 50% off. Basically, if all the painters in a town use SW, the big guys will wind up crushing the little guys on a straight product cost basis.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

m1911 said:


> kitchen and bath gloss, yes.
> I don't paint often, I got a good painter. :blink:





jb4211 said:


> I do paint often and yes, I do wash or wipe down the surface first - ALWAYS.


Unless you are working in some roach infested place or you know there is something on the surface washing painted surfaces is completely unnecessary. It may actually do more harm than good depending on what you're cleaning it with.

My customers would think I was out of mind if I came in and started washing down their ceilings and walls.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

We obviously have different customers.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Bottom line is flat ceiling paint won't have the right sheen putting it on over oil - it doesn't soak in like it will over latex. Not a big deal in my book, a little higher sheen is something I like in a bath, unless the drywall isn't that great. Normally you wouldn't think a bath ceiling wouldn't require cleaning, but there are such a range of aerosols people may use to make it smell better, or spray their hair, or whatever, that I tend to treat them like it's a challenging adhesion area. It's safer that way. Oil based primers tend to give the best adhesion...

The good news is, since it's oil now, you can't have some gawd awful stuff like WD 40 soaked in....

Due to lead RRP, I almost never sand, just clean what needs cleaning.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Completed the job yesterday. Turned out great. Hopefully it will last a good long time as well.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

mstrat said:


> This is in and of itself the main reason I've recently started switching to Pratt & Lambert paint unfortunately...their pricing schematic is complete garbage!! I used them for the paint on 3 homes this year...then my customer went and got a gallon of paint from them, and got a better price than I did on the exact same gallon of paint I'd gotten...really SW?? Then I got 5 gallons of A200 for another project...the guy at the counter even commented that my 'contractor pricing' was rather high and the manager would fix it tomorrow and call me...never got a call...price is always the same...it's likely my SW, but the P&L store locally seems much more in tune to us.


Some stores are like that. I like Cover Stain as a primer and it is usually around $17/gallon at boxies but other retailers charge $35. 

SW's main problem is overhead as they have way way too many paper pushers described as "regional managers" or "Reps" who do not bring in enough to cover their own salaries.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

mstrat said:


> This is in and of itself the main reason I've recently started switching to Pratt & Lambert paint unfortunately...their pricing schematic is complete garbage!! I used them for the paint on 3 homes this year...then my customer went and got a gallon of paint from them, and got a better price than I did on the exact same gallon of paint I'd gotten...really SW?? Then I got 5 gallons of A200 for another project...the guy at the counter even commented that my 'contractor pricing' was rather high and the manager would fix it tomorrow and call me...never got a call...price is always the same...it's likely my SW, but the P&L store locally seems much more in tune to us.


I also switched to P&L but unfortunately they are also owned by SW. I deal with a mom & pop store which is a drawback because they have few locations. But with SW I found myself going to my SW due to the incompetence of all the other stores so I guess it doesn't matter.

SW somehow controls pricing through corporate. My manager consistently had to manually change my prices. I would just say "No, I'm not paying that price" when they gave me the total. I once had an $8 price increase per gallon in the same day. That was the day I moved my account to another store, manager was a jerk.

Years later that SW moved, I walk in and here's that manager that thought he knew everything and SW was gold. That's when I called it quits with SW.


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