# The Amish



## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

TimNJ said:


> What does the self-insured person give for an insurance certificate?


A big tablet of stone like Moses used to file his tax return on.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Amish is more of a lifestyle than a Religion.


I would agree with this statement. To a person studying the religious aspects of the amish and mennonites, we would look identical. the differences are in the "ordnung", not in faith. The amish feel that living this way keeps them away from the influence of the world, and for the most part, it works.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

Tony M said:


> A big tablet of stone like Moses used to file his tax return on.


funny. amish GCs have insurance, and pay workmans comp. It the individuals that don't carry personal insurance policies, not the business.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

*Yes, for the most part.....*



dutchlegacy said:


> The amish feel that living this way keeps them away from the influence of the world, and for the most part, it works.




I remember this story from a while back. It came to my attention when I was riding with a pretty hard core group of bikers. It was almost unbelievable.

Amish arrested in motorcycle gang drug bust

I kinda laughed when the biker pic was posted.



mdshunk said:


>


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## shazamyman (Feb 6, 2008)

premierimprove1 said:


> New to this site but i think it is great.
> 
> I would like to know how the Omish can are allowed to work in developments and elsewhere with no insurance slashing mine and other contractors like yourselves prices. I lose so much work from this. They pay drivers to drive them to the jobs and use generators and compressors and slash framing prices into the ground. I don't know how they are getting around the insuances of all this either, I was told they weren't allowed to own insurance policies or generators etc.
> 
> curious to see how people respond to this or if anyone loses work from them working for free.


 


i used to live in Lancaster county and i worked for Amish, i drove their trucks, hauled em back and forth from work everyday, 
I do have to admit they paid me OK for what i did.

As for not being allowed to run gennys, that's bull****, they are allowed to have really anything, the thing is that they don't RELAY SOLEY on man made things such as electricity, telephone, cars, cell phones...not supposed to relay solely anyway.

exceptions are made for those men that work and have company's...

The guys i worked for had , health insurance...don't know how they work out the builders insurance thing though, I'm sure its tied into their community leader...or not.:laughing:

The thing that pisses me off about them is the fact they can drive those ****in buggies all over the place, and because they dont use rubber on the wheels(mAn-made) they tear up the roads around lancaster and other areas, and they dont have to pay ANY LOCAL TAXES!!!!


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## shazamyman (Feb 6, 2008)

trptman said:


> The Amish are ok. I have no problems with them. they are a tad bit hipocritical on a couple of things though. I do find it odd that they are not allowed to have electric but are allowed to install it for others. Is electric ok or not? I find it odd they are allowed to ride in and make use of gasoline powered vehicles, as long as they are owned by others. Are cars ok or not?
> I'm no Amish expert, but those couple of things have always puzzled me. I don't live terribly far from the Amish areas in eastern Ohio and have seen Amish at the box stores buying electrical supplies etc. hmmm
> I don't blame them for using gas powered vehicles or installing electric, I mean, I use that stuff too. I just don't understand the difference in their minds.
> I've never run into Amish on a job or had any work taken away because of Amish that I'm aware of but if they are doing work outside of their community for others for pay, they should be playing by whatever rules anyone else needs to play by.
> ...


 

AS I SAID ITS NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED NESSACARILY, ITS THAT AS A RULE OF THUMB THEY DONT RELIE SOLEY ON THESE THINGS TO SURVIVE


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

shazamyman said:


> they dont have to pay ANY LOCAL TAXES!!!!


this is total bull. how does one "not pay local taxes"?


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

dutchlegacy said:


> The idea of being Amish is to be set apart from the rest of the world. Its not a contest to see who can be most primitive. The idea is to keep things simple, not necessarily to do without. You have some kind of contempt for the amish, and my recommendation to you is to approach these people and talk to them. they are not stupid, and you will be surprised how much you have in common with them. building storage buildings out of mdf scraps? I think you might be stretching it a little bit on that one.


Id love to spend time with a amish farmer. Im a antique farm equipment freak. Heres my horse drawn potato digger I fixed up a few yers back.










And about the POS sheds built out of mdf scraps, Ive seen them. I know a stupid woman who payed 10k for one just be cause it was amish built. Maybe its not amish built, maybe its just a couple of smart asses dressing up in amish clothes building these things and saying they are amish. All I know is they sell them as amish built and they are nothing but garbage.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Michaeljp86 said:


> Id love to spend time with a amish farmer. Im a antique farm equipment freak.


A good customer has a pretty brish business fabricating steel wheels for modern farm equipment for the Amish. I was at his shop doing some electrical work, and one of the projects he was doing was making a set of steel wheels for a brand new Cub Cadet riding lawn mower. Not big cleat one's like your potato digger, but with expanded mesh for a steel version of "turf tread".


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

dutchlegacy said:


> this is total bull. how does one "not pay local taxes"?


I thought they dont pay local taxes because of their religion. Thats why when you drive throught the hood every other mail box says Rev. in front of their name because they claim a religion and have to pay little or no taxes.



mdshunk said:


> A good customer has a pretty brish business fabricating steel wheels for modern farm equipment for the Amish. I was at his shop doing some electrical work, and one of the projects he was doing was making a set of steel wheels for a brand new Cub Cadet riding lawn mower. Not big cleat one's like your potato digger, but with expanded mesh for a steel version of "turf tread".


Id like to see that lawn tractor. Why cant they use rubber tires? I dont get that at all. 

Ive thought about restoring old horse drawn farm equipment and trying to sell it to the amish but if they use those 1/2 tractor things I guess that wouldnt work out.


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## trptman (Mar 26, 2007)

shazamyman said:


> AS I SAID ITS NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED NESSACARILY, ITS THAT AS A RULE OF THUMB THEY DONT RELIE SOLEY ON THESE THINGS TO SURVIVE


Why does it look like YOU ARE "YELLING" AT ME (the all caps typing) as if I asked the question right after you "answered" it (that is, assuming you are correct with your answer)?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Evidently, the ones near here are not comp;etely covered with medical/hospital insurance. One of their women was in the hospital for cancer. They got the customary discount for paying cash. Not sure what that amounted to, but someone from their community came in and paid $10,000 on the bill. Unfortunately, the cancer came back. This time she applied for the charity program. Maybe extreme logic? I mean maybe this sect thinks why spend the money when it is not going to make much difference in the long/near future? Save the cash for the betterment of the community?

HD here sells the storage buildings advertised as being build by the Amish.

On another note a kid recently ran into one of their buggies when he topped a hill. Killed the at least one and the horse. I don't know of any doing contract work per se away from home around here. I mean going into other contractors market area to paint, build, whatever. They do mill lumber, sell molasses, straw hats, etc..
Interesting subject ...and responses.


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## john elliott (Oct 23, 2005)

shazamyman said:


> AS I SAID ITS NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED NESSACARILY, ITS THAT AS A RULE OF THUMB THEY DONT RELIE SOLEY ON THESE THINGS TO SURVIVE



If you are going to shout, you might want to check your spelling. 

John


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

boman47k said:


> They do mill lumber, sell molasses, straw hats, etc..
> 
> Interesting subject ...and responses.


They grow the BEST damn produce in the World! They set-up shop at a park in West Grove, PA during the Spring and Summer and they can not be beat!!! I always buy bunches of edibles!


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## XanadooLTD (Oct 6, 2007)

We have done several barn rennovations and you can not beat Amish workmanship. Amish prices are lower but workmanship is far superior than your average 12 pack a day laborer. These guys are work horses. Md, are you amish or is that just the avatar?


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

MALCO.New.York said:


> They grow the BEST damn produce in the World! They set-up shop at a park in West Grove, PA during the Spring and Summer and they can not be beat!!! I always buy bunches of edibles!


 
I am sure they do more than I am aware of. They are about 20 miles from here just above the Tn./Al. line. I seldom see any of them unless they happen to be at one of the local hospitals. One feed store here was selling the hats and maybe other stuff. I assume they are bought from the community there in Tn. Of course, that may not be the case. These things could be made anywhere by anyone and sold as Amish/Mennonite products as far I know. I have been told of the men using elevators and the women using the stairs at the hospital. Don't know if that is custom or due to some kind of physical impairment.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

XanadooLTD said:


> We have done several barn rennovations and you can not beat Amish workmanship. Amish prices are lower but workmanship is far superior than your average 12 pack a day laborer. These guys are work horses.


Eh, I don't know. I think that "Amish craftsmanship" is more of a myth than anything else. People are people, and in any group some are more skilled than others. I think that the reason that the Amish are associated with craftsmanship is because they perform certain tradecrafts seldom practiced nowadays, and they perform some trades the old-school way. Don't mistake this necessarily for craftsmanship. Where they compete on a level playing field, like framing a new house for instance, the work is typically no better or no worse than any other crew's work. Personal industry is, however, one noted hallmark of the work. It will be done on time, even if it isn't the piece of art you hoped you'd get.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

mdshunk said:


> Eh, I don't know. I think that "Amish craftsmanship" is more of a myth than anything else. People are people, and in any group some are more skilled than others. I think that the reason that the Amish are associated with craftsmanship is because they perform certain tradecrafts seldom practiced nowadays, and they perform some trades the old-school way. Don't mistake this necessarily for craftsmanship. Where they compete on a level playing field, like framing a new house for instance, the work is typically no better or no worse than any other crew's work. Personal industry is, however, one noted hallmark of the work. It will be done on time, even if it isn't the piece of art you hoped you'd get.


this is very accurate, with the exception of barn building. The barn at our home place was built in 1837 on a hand-hewn sandstone foundation. The timbers (oak) were linked via mortis and tenon, with hard-wood dowels to link them for good. these same methods are still used today at barn-raising frolics. We just replaced a barn for an amish guy, and it took FOREVER to get the old one apart. An entreprenuer from Canton came down and bought all the timbers for a handsome price...he reclaims old structures for a living and loves these old barns around here, for obvious reasons ($$).


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

Michaeljp86 said:


> I thought they dont pay local taxes because of their religion. Thats why when you drive throught the hood every other mail box says Rev. in front of their name because they claim a religion and have to pay little or no taxes.


I am thinking by the responses here that the Amish communities you live near do things differently than the one I come from. There are plenty of shady amish people out there, just like any other sect of society.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

I am not really getting involved in this discussion because of the religious nature of it. 

The funniest thing I have ever seen in my life was the Wal-Mart near Lancaster, Pa. that has a horse shed and old west type hitching post for the Amish to keep their horses secured, fed, and watered while they go shopping.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

wizendwizard said:


> I am not really getting involved in this discussion because of the religious nature of it.
> 
> The funniest thing I have ever seen in my life was the Wal-Mart near Lancaster, Pa. that has a horse shed and old west type hitching post for the Amish to keep their horses secured, fed, and watered while they go shopping.


this is not a discussion about religion, its a discussion about the effect of a culture on business practices and its economic impact. I only noted the religious idently because its personally important to me to share that with people so they can better understand where the amish and mennonites are coming from. 

i think its cool that a corporation like Wal-mart does enough research to even install a hitching post for the Amish. We have a Walmart in Millersburg, and they installed a lean-to covered shed for horse-drawn vehicle parking as well. In fact, if a business wants to succeed in east Holmes County, they had better have provisions for horse and buggy parking.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

wizendwizard said:


> The funniest thing I have ever seen in my life was the Wal-Mart near Lancaster, Pa. that has a horse shed and old west type hitching post for the Amish to keep their horses secured, fed, and watered while they go shopping.


That's a normal site in my town. Almost every larger store has a hitching post and horse shed. Wal-Mart, K-Mart, the grocery stores, the pharmacy, the bank, etc. The nicer one's have a water faucet and a hose inside of them. The cart boys get the chore of scooping up the horse poo.


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

When I lived in Knox County, OH, the Walmart had 2 hitching posts. I don't recall a watering trough, that would be a nice touch.


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## Tin Cup (Nov 22, 2007)

I for one appreciate Dutch, MD and Susan sharing their insight into the Amish community. 

While in college I would drive my motorcycle through northern Knox County, i remember coming across some Amish farms, it seemed like the Twighlight Zone, places where time stood still. kinda neat. also neat to see them in town. biggest problem they had was getting their buggies rear-ended by drunk non-Amish idiots. At least two incidents on Rt. 229 that I can remember.

Gotta love Kelly McGillis in The Witness. I can't believe none else has brought her up yet. must be too young of a crowd in here.

Tin Cup


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

Tin Cup said:


> I for one appreciate Dutch, MD and Susan sharing their insight into the Amish community.
> 
> While in college I would drive my motorcycle through northern Knox County, i remember coming across some Amish farms, it seemed like the Twighlight Zone, places where time stood still. kinda neat. also neat to see them in town. biggest problem they had was getting their buggies rear-ended by drunk non-Amish idiots. At least two incidents on Rt. 229 that I can remember.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the horse and buggy safetly issue is one that I have had a lot of arguments with many people over. Some of the "new order" churches have fitted their buggies with LEDs, strobe beacons, and reflective tape so you can see them from a mile off. Other "old order" churches, such as the Swartzentruber Amish church refuse to use such safety devices, and their buggies are only lit up with two oil burning lanterns...they don't even put a SMV triangle on the back. Most accidents with buggy accidents with cars involve this church. 

I thought for a long time about designing a buggy myself, using an aluminum frame with more support gussets and cross-members, lexan glass instead of thin plastic, and a "front end release" for when the horse decides it want to take you across a field or into trouble. Right now, the buggies are mostly plywood and vinyl, and they offer ZERO support in a collision. A stronger buggy wouldn't help in a high speed crash, but it would save the folks that are dying in low speed collisions. Half the time the box gets knocked right off of the chassis. Scary.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

dutchlegacy said:


> I thought for a long time about designing a buggy myself, using an aluminum frame with more support gussets and cross-members, lexan glass instead of thin plastic, and a "front end release" for when the horse decides it want to take you across a field or into trouble. Right now, the buggies are mostly plywood and vinyl, and they offer ZERO support in a collision. A stronger buggy wouldn't help in a high speed crash, but it would save the folks that are dying in low speed collisions. Half the time the box gets knocked right off of the chassis. Scary.


If you are serious about this, I may be able to help you design it, I build stock car chassis as a business.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> If you are serious about this, I may be able to help you design it, I build stock car chassis as a business.


There's a few in my area made out of aluminium square tube and diamond plate aluminium. Mostly market wagons and not really buggies. THey'd probably have to black annodize it for a buggy. :thumbsup:


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

mdshunk said:


> There's a few in my area made out of aluminium square tube and diamond plate aluminium. Mostly market wagons and not really buggies. THey'd probably have to black annodize it for a buggy. :thumbsup:


Powder coat is relatively cheap and durable.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Tin Cup said:


> biggest problem they had was getting their buggies rear-ended by drunk non-Amish idiots. At least two incidents on Rt. 229 that I can remember.


I hear more of amish guys getting drunk and passing out. The horse knows the way home but doesnt know to stop at a stop sign and gets run over.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Michaeljp86 said:


> I hear more of amish guys getting drunk and passing out. The horse knows the way home but doesnt know to stop at a stop sign and gets run over.


I think I would have backed that up with a newspaper article at the least:blink:


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Jason W said:


> I think I would have backed that up with a newspaper article at the least:blink:


You never heard of it? Ive only see one article in a paper on it at a breakfast restaurant but Ive been told by a few people it happens quite often. They could be full of  to. Im finding most people are.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

Michaeljp86 said:


> You never heard of it? Ive only see one article in a paper on it at a breakfast restaurant but Ive been told by a few people it happens quite often. They could be full of  to. Im finding most people are.


That is local folk-lore here also, but i'm sure it happens once in a while. Horses are awesome...they can find their way home from anywhere. about 4 years ago, I had an old horse named Blackjack hitched up to a buggy to go about 3 miles up the road. We got to our destination, and I decided to turn the rig around and hitch to the rail facing the road. Blackjack decided that he was going home...NOW. I hung my 225 lbs. on the reins, which accomplished nothing. He found his stride and didn't stop until we reached the barn. This was the last time I used a horse and buggy as transportation. :furious: I still like to take out the rig once in a while now, but only for fun.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I've witnessed more than once where the horse refused to take off when a red light turned green. The process normally involves the driver exiting the buggy and giving the horse a tug from the front to get it going, then the driver has to run along side the buggy and jump in. Pretty scary looking, actually.

What really ticks me off is that I live in a mainly college town. Some of these jerkoff college kids will pass by a buggy and lay on the horn on the way past the horse. They have no idea what sort of calamity they could possibly cause. Same goes for Harley riders who gun the throttle on the way past. In general, the horses are bread to be fairly immune to this, but if you've ever seen one going completely nuts while attached to a buggy, it's pretty scary.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

mdshunk said:


> I've witnessed more than once where the horse refused to take off when a red light turned green. The process normally involves the driver exiting the buggy and giving the horse a tug from the front to get it going, then the driver has to run along side the buggy and jump in. Pretty scary looking, actually.
> 
> What really ticks me off is that I live in a mainly college town. Some of these jerkoff college kids will pass by a buggy and lay on the horn on the way past the horse. They have no idea what sort of calamity they could possibly cause. Same goes for Harley riders who gun the throttle on the way past. In general, the horses are bread to be fairly immune to this, but if you've ever seen one going completely nuts while attached to a buggy, it's pretty scary.


Its surprising that more accidents with horses don't happen. Its a testament to true horsemanship. Its amazing the rapport you can develop with a horse when its your source of transportation, but you can never "fully" trust it. complacency behind the reins will get you killed.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

Is it against Amish rules to just ride the horse with no buggy? I see them on some funny looking bicycles when we are working around their communities, and it just popped into my head the other day that I have never seen them ride the horse without the buggy.
One day we saw an Amish man setting in a Radio Flyer wagon with his feet in the air pulling himself along with a self propelled tiller going down the road, I dont think I have ever laughed so hard.
Around here the Amish are losing alot of jobs to the illegals that they used to hire for drivers, more and more of the guys I see doing framing and brick mason work used to drive for the amish. The Amish have a cheap lifestyle, but even they cant compete with the illegals.


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## GoodPainter (Apr 23, 2006)

I live in Amish country(lancaster Co.)(I am surrounded by farms) have seen it all including the news with them having
their crack parties and drug rings.
I have no problem with them and I understand about the self insure,
pretty much just help each other out.
But,
What I dont understand is about not being allowed cell phones, cars, electric tools
and all this other stuff unless it is for business use?
Even some sects cant have these in their own name.
They will have their cellphone and internet/pc owned by a non-amish friend
or partner but it is theirs and they use it with no problems?

I dont fully understand this if they are comfortable with this(not being honest in few words) then I hope they 
are comfortable with me getting jobs by being honest to the customer.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

you gotta do what you gotta do to get jobs. the rules within the community are complex, and they differ from church to church.


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## trptman (Mar 26, 2007)

dutchlegacy said:


> Its surprising that more accidents with horses don't happen. Its a testament to true horsemanship. Its amazing the rapport you can develop with a horse when its your source of transportation, but you can never "fully" trust it. complacency behind the reins will get you killed.


Ive got a newfound appreciation for horses and what they can do, or do to you. My family got a horse (mainly for my daughter) about a year and a half ago. They are pretty amazing animals, but can "spook" at the darndest things sometimes. I know I'm extra careful (not that I was ever reckless)when I drive by or pass a horse drawn buggy on the road now.

I just cringe if I see a family in a buggy and some jerk blowing by them at 60 mph.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

trptman said:


> Ive got a newfound appreciation for horses and what they can do, or do to you. My family got a horse (mainly for my daughter) about a year and a half ago. They are pretty amazing animals, but can "spook" at the darndest things sometimes. I know I'm extra careful (not that I was ever reckless)when I drive by or pass a horse drawn buggy on the road now.
> 
> I just cringe if I see a family in a buggy and some jerk blowing by them at 60 mph.


It makes me nervous also. My great-uncle Jacob was in his open-buggy last November, tooling along when an SUV crested a hill and smacked him at 45 MPH...knocked the box right off of the chassis...threw the sturdy old guy 25 feet and broke several of his vertabrae and his pelvis. he didn't get killed, but he spent 4 months in the hospital. We lose about 10 people per year here in Holmes County to buggy accidents, and its truly amazing that we don't lose more. Most of the bigger roads in H.C. accomodate buggy with 6 feet of SMV lane, but the smaller roads are still death zones. I'm happy that the tourists (bless their wallets...I mean hearts) drive so slowly that it keeps accidents to a minimum during the high-season. Most folks around here are aware enough to know not to crest a hill at 65 MPH. You NEVER know what is on the other side.


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## orson (Nov 23, 2007)

Amish do not have to pay FICA taxes(social security and medicare).

As a teenager I spent some time at an amish family's house on occasion. I remember playing w/ a baby about a year old, learning later that the child fell ill and died, never having been taken to a hospital.

I have driven to penn state games with groups of people including amish who smoked and drank beer w/ the best of them.

I've worked next to amish in several trades, some were lousy, a few were excellent.

I can safely make a generalized statement that they work very hard. They have a lot of holidays, and work far fewer days a year than most subcontractors I know.

Lancaster County and surrounding areas have a substantially lower priced building and remodeling market than the markets that surround us. This is attributable to the amish and mennonite, no question in my mind.


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## siberian (Mar 15, 2007)

This a just a few trinkets, maybe informational (lol, or not).
Amish church is very strong as far as helping. For instance, if there is a widow every man will give one day to help cut enough firewood for the year. It is an expensive lifestyle. Considering , pay for rides everywhere, ice for keeping food, propane for lights. They do pay land tax. And was mentioned before, every church may vary. Here they can use a tractor to plow their land. But, they may not own a tractor. Cell phones are permitted for work if proven necessary in the church, as if you were a contractor. The work? Well I agree again with a previous post. Some may not warrent being hired, others are great. Depends on the person. 
Interesting thread.

By the way. It was explained to me that each church has to follow what they belive is right. Electricty for instance , is not an evil thing in itself. But where the permant use of it may lead them is the contraversy.


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## LarryR (Mar 2, 2008)

I have family on Ohio - Pennsylvania border. They speak well of Amish. When there was a tornado some years ago the Amish came in and fixed up houses for cost, while Government agencies were tying up relief money. I hear they helped out other times too, but that one was big. 


I'm amazed at their carpentry. My uncle hired them to build a deck, said they do best work. Yet they use no electric tools.


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## dutchlegacy (Feb 29, 2008)

LarryR said:


> I have family on Ohio - Pennsylvania border. They speak well of Amish. When there was a tornado some years ago the Amish came in and fixed up houses for cost, while Government agencies were tying up relief money. I hear they helped out other times too, but that one was big.
> 
> 
> I'm amazed at their carpentry. My uncle hired them to build a deck, said they do best work. Yet they use no electric tools.


We sent a crew down to Mississippi two weeks ago for ten days to frame houses. A slower paced life-style lends itself to helping others. Some of the framing crews we have sub-ed work out to (amish crews) have done some slap-it-up work, others did work that I couldn't find fault in. The demographics are similar to non-amish trademen, with the exception, in my opinion, of cabinet making. I have not seen the like outside of this community. I will have amish made cabinets and furnishings in my house, and I'll pay the extra cost that goes with it. The workmanship is immaculate, and the staining and sealing process is unparalleled.


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## BuilderRemodler (Apr 8, 2008)

If They Can Provide a Service We Can Not Then Perhaps We Need To rethink our system.

If they can do it better for less... then they are the ones for the work.

It is amazing watching a community pull together like the Amish do. We All Should Take Notes and Learn.

www.HomePlansForFree.com


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## BuilderRemodler (Apr 8, 2008)

Eliminate the Not in above

Not Not :whistling

I'll be better with proofing first sorry.

www.HomePlansForFree.com


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## BuilderRemodler (Apr 8, 2008)

Amish make the coolest little chair. It turns into a table, and like five other items. I have visited one of their communities several years ago and would like to return and refreshed my memory.

www.HomePlansForFree.com


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