# Staircase install - exterior - very steep incline



## SWConstruction (Mar 21, 2010)

Potential client of mine called me to ask for a bid. He wants what his "neighbors have" . 

33' Run , 33'Rise

His neighbors staircase looks something like 10 PT 4" posts, with 2x10's as the "stringers" with treads nailed in individually from the sides. Is this even up to code? I was under the impression I would have to create real stringers and nail treads on from the top. 

Should I even bother re-creating his stairs like theirs (they look funtional, but arent done "right") or should I take the time and create real stringers and potentially lose the job because of the extra time invested in doing it right?

To give an idea of the hill's steepness, I can barely walk down it without having to slide. Very steep. Very hard to climb up myself without using hands.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I don't think you can do that in a single run. I believe code says you can only go so many treads before you need a landing. We did a similar one 2 years ago down a ravine. Built a little 5x12 deck halfway down and used it as a landing.


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## SWConstruction (Mar 21, 2010)

Thats exactly what I am worried about. That drives up costs considerably. But I dont want my name even a nice install of stairs not up to code.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

The construction material is acceptable....I personally like cut stringers but then you need three. The rise however is too tall, code says no more than 12ft at a time between landing. People need a rest.......


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

tom m said:


> The construction material is acceptable....I personally like cut stringers but then you need three. The rise however is too tall, code says no more than 12ft at a time between landing. People need a rest.......


I believe you're mistaken, Tom. Stringers need to be made from 2x12s, and nails alone aren't enough to secure the treads. You need a 2x4 ledger under each one.

Correct on the 12' rule, but just to clarify, you can have more than 12' of stringer between landings. You just can't exceed 12' vertically.


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## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

I ran into this problem in the past. When I went to pull a permit, Inspector asked if it was attached to the house. If it's not attached, I didn't need a permit.

No permit, no inspector, no codes....

You might be in the same boat, ask the inspector...


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## SWConstruction (Mar 21, 2010)

This will not be attached to the house, but there will be a small landing at the top where it bridges to the driveway concrete.


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## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

Jaf said:


> I ran into this problem in the past. When I went to pull a permit, Inspector asked if it was attached to the house. If it's not attached, I didn't need a permit.
> 
> No permit, no inspector, no codes....
> 
> You might be in the same boat, ask the inspector...


Until someone falls down the stairs and sues you for building a staircase not to code!


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## Jaf (May 10, 2010)

bhock said:


> Until someone falls down the stairs and sues you for building a staircase not to code!


Your right. I almost added something to that effect in my post. In my situation, I was adding a rail to existing concrete steps that wound down a hill. The measurements on each step was different, and no way near code. I had problems with the ' 6" sphere in the triangle ' thingy. Inspector gave me the fastest way out.

But in the end your right, someone gets hurt, I'm at the mercy of lawyers.


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## Dpscott (Jan 20, 2010)

Hey SW, that sounds like a pass on to me. Thats a like a 7 1/2 tread and a 7 1/2 riser.... No way would I be associated with that scenario. I would draw up and purpose something different if you think the owner would be accepting of it. What they are asking is dangerous and unsafe, the attachment method is shady too. Maybe you dont need to cut stringers but you would need to router out for the treads if you wanted to get away with only two stringers. I would explain the problem to the owner. If you think the owner wouldnt get what the problem is I would run, you dont need that headache.

Maybe an off set stair with a small landing to change direction? If theyre cheep to consider a few hundred extra in work then then forget about em.


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

Warning please !!! - I did one 2 yrs ago not as long. I can tell you that working on an incline like that took almost 50% longer labor wise than I figured. Mine was about a 45 deg hill, sandy soil, no grass. Just acct for it.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Tinstaafl said:


> I believe you're mistaken, Tom. Stringers need to be made from 2x12s, and nails alone aren't enough to secure the treads. You need a 2x4 ledger under each one.
> 
> Correct on the 12' rule, but just to clarify, you can have more than 12' of stringer between landings. You just can't exceed 12' vertically.


I was wrong according to the AWC but I believe a solid 2x10 carriage with cleats is stronger than a cut 2x12. I prefer cut stringer because I dont like cleat connections.
Before the AWC created a deck guide line I dont think there were any true guidlines for deck stair techniques just width/hieght handrails whatever...........2x10 was very common.

Its all expressed in the AWC http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf you will note they suggest if you cut the stringer you are limited to a 6 ft span. Again I would pretty much follow these AWC guidlines even though we have not yet adopted them.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

tom m said:


> I was wrong according to the AWC but I believe a solid 2x10 carriage with cleats is stronger than a cut 2x12.


I'd have to agree with you there. And I don't like cleats either. They're just not pretty, if nothing else.

That AWC guide was actually created by Fairfax County, VA. The AWC just pretty much copied it verbatim, with a couple of minor tweaks. The 6' stringer run you mention is one of them--Fairfax allows 8'6". But I believe in both cases, they're talking about two stringers instead of three.

Using either version, you're pretty much guaranteed to have a good strong deck that no inspector will have any problems with, no matter how ugly it is. Most of the townships around here are using those specs, and some of them even provide that doc as a handout.


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