# Forget the Ford F-350



## angus242

Sorry, I'd never buy a HD truck with a coil spring rear end :blink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJZVUnOduH4

I'm not knocking Dodge's diesel or Hemi, but seriously, COIL springs on the rear end? If you want a smooth ride, throw 4000lbs in the bed of my F350. Rides better than my partner's mid-size car!


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## BobsLandscaping

The RXT is gone, the listing is 2 years old.:sad: What a bummer, I liked that truck.

The sales man did send me a picture of a landscaping truck he sold last year. He can order one like it for me if I want.

We spec'd one out just to see what it would cost.

For an engine I'd get the 325 horsepower diesel coupled to a six speed Allison transmission.

4 door crew cab, drivers seat would be air ride. Remainder to be benches w/ undeseat storage lockers. Air conditioning :clap:, power windows and locks. AM/FM w/ CD. Cloth seats, rubber floor.

Behind the cab I would have a Knap Pack, which is a large toolbox the width of the truck. Then a 12 foot steel sided landscaping dump body. At the back in lieu of a standard tailgate would be a Tommygate Lift n' Dump hydraulic tailgate. Underneath the bed in front of the wheels would be large storage boxes by Delta. Tons of storage in this truck.

GVWR of the truck would be 25,999lbs and hydraulic brakes to keep it under CDL and IFTA.

Towing capacity would be 22,000lbs and they will install a Prodigy trailer brake controller and 2 inch hitch.

Delivered price would be $62,000.

Does that seem like a good deal? It's about twice what I was really wanting to spend on a truck...

It's not as luxurious as a F-450 King Ranch but I think it's more truck for the money.


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## davitk

BobsLandscaping said:


> Delivered price would be $62,000.
> 
> Does that seem like a good deal? It's about twice what I was really wanting to spend on a truck...


Car shopping really puts you on that "slippery slope", doesn't it?

My advice would be to shop around for the "almost perfect" truck used, maybe 2 years old with 35K on the clock and save yourself $31,000.

And to answer your question, no. $62,000 for a VEHICLE sounds like a crappy deal.


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## Greg Di

davitk said:


> And to answer your question, no. $62,000 for a VEHICLE sounds like a crappy deal.


I agree. Don't let your emotions get in the way of a sound business decision.

There are LOTs of ways to get the capacity and storage for A LOT LESS MONEY.

Yes, I have a chrome bumper instead of a plastic bumper on my truck, but my "want" vehicle was a tricked out diesel Sprinter. Sanity prevailed and I ended up with a Chevy Express 3500 with a KUV body for about $15k less and it does the same thing, if not better.


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## Winchester

davitk said:


> Car shopping really puts you on that "slippery slope", doesn't it?
> 
> My advice would be to shop around for the "almost perfect" truck used, maybe 2 years old with 35K on the clock and save yourself $31,000.
> 
> And to answer your question, no. $62,000 for a VEHICLE sounds like a crappy deal.


How quick is that thing going to depreciate?

Here is a famous saying from some famous rich dude:

_"Buy what appreciates, and lease what depreciates."_

To me, that means never buy a _*new*_ vehicle. If you want something brand new, lease it.

I've known people to buy used cars and have (1-2) years later sold them for more than they paid.
Last year I sold a car I bought for $2000 for $1800 after using it for nearly 2 years.

I would never buy a brand new vehicle unless I had money to burn.

I agree with Davit and Greg. Keep shopping, you will find a good deal. Don't fall into the trap.


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## BobsLandscaping

I want a truck I can keep for 20 years or more.


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## J F

Wasn't there a landscaper on here just recently saying _"you can have good landscaping equipment or a new fancy truck, not both"_ :whistling

who _was that?_


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## Winchester

BobsLandscaping said:


> I want a truck I can keep for 20 years or more.


Well. If you can afford it, go for it bro. arty:


It's your business so you should be able to tell if it's a good decision for your business before we can.


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## BobsLandscaping

That was me. I spent the last few years buying equipment, now it's time to buy a truck, when that's paid for it'll be time to replace equipment, and so it goes. It's a never ending cycle.

I can afford the truck, but is $62,000 a good price?


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## Winchester

BobsLandscaping said:


> That was me. I spent the last few years buying equipment, now it's time to buy a truck, when that's paid for it'll be time to replace equipment, and so it goes. It's a never ending cycle.
> 
> I can afford the truck, but is $62,000 a good price?


I think it would be a great price up here. Stuff is cheaper south of here though, so I'll leave that for someone else to answer.


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## Schmidt & Co

Have you gone to truck trader to compare? 

I did'nt catch if its new. If its new, whats the sticker price?


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## Schmidt & Co

It _is_ a good looking truck by the way......


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## BobsLandscaping

It's new. The price would be $62,000 OTD.


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## Schmidt & Co

How about this? 

http://www.comercialtrucktrader.com/medium-duty-trucks/find/listing/2008-ford-f450-94746189


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## Schmidt & Co

I cant seem to get the link to work. Here is a picture, Its a 2008 with 38k on it. Asking $37,900.00


:sad: One more try on the link....

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/medium-duty-trucks/find/listing/2008-ford-f450-94746189


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## BobsLandscaping

Is that a 550? 19,500 GVW?

Truck shopping is tough, but I really should get something bigger. I made a lot of extra runs because my F-150 doesn't have the capacity. With a Class 6 truck like the International I could save so much time, that truck should have a payload capacity of around 14,000lbs.

On the other hand it's pretty expensive.

Buying a big truck dedicated to my business (let's face it, it's awfully large to be a daily driver) is a significant stepping stone. I know I could be more productive, get more done in less time, and make more money with it. I'm reasonably confident it will go the distance. From the research I've done it's not unheard of for these trucks to go 600,000 miles before an in-frame. Fuel economy will overall be better, that International should hit 12mpg highway. Which is better than my F-150, also I'll make fewer trips back and forth for material.

On the other hand right now I'm paying very little for insurance, a new Class 6 truck is going to cost about $3,000 a year to insure w/ full coverage.

I want it, I think I can justify it, but I'm just not 100% convinced.


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## XanadooLTD

You are crazy if you get that size truck as a daily driver to pull trailers with lawn equipment. you will spend all your profit in gas alone. You need nothing larger than a 3/4 to pull the trailers and maybe this to deliver rock. How many people will you be driving around with in it? If more than one, you are again nuts to spend that on a truck that someone will scratch to crap. do what you will, but just speaking from experience. Unless you use this for yard debris or rock deliveries.


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## XanadooLTD

also checked the ford website and the gmc website. I wasn't wrong. depends on add ons. Gmc has add ons that ford does not. The 350 has 700 pounds more weight and carries 100 pounds less than the 2500. Towing is the same at 15k


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## Cole82

Are you doing that many hardscapes to need that big of a truck? 14,000 payload is about 4 pallets of retaining wall blocks. If you need that much go for it but that is from one extreme to another going from a f150 to xt.


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## Mike Finley

BobsLandscaping said:


> That was me. I spent the last few years buying equipment, now it's time to buy a truck, when that's paid for it'll be time to replace equipment, and so it goes. It's a never ending cycle.


That's a tread mill to no where. That's like the payment buyer baffoons who sing the mantra, I've resigned myself that I will always have a car payment for life, so what's the difference as long as I can afford it.

Afford it doesn't mean you are on an endless treadmill. That is a sign that you can't afford what you are doing and need to spend much less.

F*&K a $60,000 truck you can keep for 20 years and put $25,000 into it over that time. I'd do that as long as I was banking about $10,000 a month and that $60,000 was nothing. Otherwise it's time to buy a used $10,000 truck, keep it for 10 years and have money to burn every month instead of slaving to a truck payment.


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## Mike Finley

You're talking about this???????????????????????










Here in America we have machines that do stuff like this:












Get yourself an enclosed trailer and a crap load of restaurant tray holders or something :










Damn man, what else you got for problems? :laughing:


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## BobsLandscaping

The problem is keeping the flats restrained during transport so they don't fall out and making sure none of the plants are crushed. Restaurant carts are an idea I dismissed early on because the flats can slide out.


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## Mike Finley

Here in America we can do stuff like this:










You're getting tripped up over moving daffodils. :whistling


Wrap each rack in plastic. They sell a 12 foot wide 500 foot long roll in Home Depot for $12.00.

You won't even need an enclosed trailer.

Next.


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## BobsLandscaping

Holy ****. I can't believe I didn't think of that. I've been trying to find latching mechanisms, air suspended racks, and all kinds of fancy engineered stuff. Actually a shrink wrapped rack, ratchet strapped to the deck of my trailer, is the best solution. It's simple, quick, and doesn't have a lot of fiddly moving parts. The weight of the rack will smooth out the ride of the trailer. Where were you for the last few years?


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## Winchester

:laughing:


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## J F

Finley strikes again :laughing:


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## Greg Di

BobsLandscaping said:


> The problem is keeping the flats restrained during transport so they don't fall out and making sure none of the plants are crushed. Restaurant carts are an idea I dismissed early on because the flats can slide out.



Bob, I've never been to Idaho but I'd love to go.

Fly me out there and within two days, I'll have the racks ready to go in whatever capacity you need them so the flats don't move around. Some plywood and a saw is all you need, brother.

I think you are too much in "dirt man" mode and not enough in "carpenter/McGyver" mode. We are laughing at your "problem" because it is such and easy hurdle to overcome. Stop making excuses and fabricate what you need.

Heck, take those restaurant tray racks to a Tig welder with empty flats and say "I need to make sure these don't move around in transit"


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## JT Wood

BobsLandscaping said:


> Is that a 550? 19,500 GVW?
> 
> Truck shopping is tough, but I really should get something bigger. I made a lot of extra runs because my F-150 doesn't have the capacity. With a Class 6 truck like the International I could save so much time, that truck should have a payload capacity of around 14,000lbs.
> 
> On the other hand it's pretty expensive.
> 
> Buying a big truck dedicated to my business (let's face it, it's awfully large to be a daily driver) is a significant stepping stone. I know I could be more productive, get more done in less time, and make more money with it. I'm reasonably confident it will go the distance. From the research I've done it's not unheard of for these trucks to go 600,000 miles before an in-frame. Fuel economy will overall be better, that International should hit 12mpg highway. Which is better than my F-150, also I'll make fewer trips back and forth for material.
> 
> On the other hand right now I'm paying very little for insurance, a new Class 6 truck is going to cost about $3,000 a year to insure w/ full coverage.
> 
> I want it, I think I can justify it, but I'm just not 100% convinced.


 

......


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## JT Wood

Crock said:


> You could hit a gas station assailant right in the noggin with your door on that rig.


 
This is the funniest post I've read in weeks.!! 


or bob you could try this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wNkcATs96Q


just kidding:thumbsup:


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## dougger222

XanadooLTD said:


> also checked the ford website and the gmc website. I wasn't wrong. depends on add ons. Gmc has add ons that ford does not. The 350 has 700 pounds more weight and carries 100 pounds less than the 2500. Towing is the same at 15k


You need to post links and explain these "add ons".

Here's the information again on the 2008 2500 HD,
http://www.gmc.com/sierra/index.jsp

Again with a 2008 2500 HD your max payload is going to be 3,924 pounds. This includes driver, passenger(s), optional equipment, and cargo. What this tells me is you will be able to haul more with a stripped down regular cab long bed then a fully loaded crew cab.

Here's the information again on the 2008 F350 Super Duty,
http://www.fordf150.net/2008/2008-ford-f250-superduty-specifications.php

Even the lowest rated 2008 F350 is still more than the highest possible 2008 2500HD.

Please most your links that show the 2008 2500HD with more payload capacities than the 2008 F350:thumbsup:


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## Duane1982

*" So back to the F-350. I can get an XL w/ V-10, 4x4, crew cab, long bed, srw, auto, for around $30,000. It'll tow 12,500lbs. A DRW will cost around $32,000 and tow 15,000lbs. Diesel will push closer to $36K and will only tow 1,000 more pounds srw or drw. So I don't see the need for a diesel in a 1 ton.

Sounds ok to me. At least I'll have capacity and A/C.

I can get a nice dump trailer 16K GVW for $17,000. Has a Honda engine on to power the hydraulics as opposed to the weak electric."


*I'm surprised no one said this but buy the diesel! You need a diesel so it will haul what you need it to haul daily without killing your drivetrain, having exhaust manifold issues etc.

You were worried about wasting time with your f150. I'm sure a diesel will get you to wherever you need to be quicker than a gas job when loaded


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## Mike Finley

Bob is scared of diesels.

He lika da gas.


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## HanerEnterprise

Bob, I hate Home Depot too and figured you the same. My sarcasm is directed towards the tiny parking spaces they provide for the HO's Kia mini vans and are not intended for our real size work trucks... I have a 4 door 2500 with 8' box and the first time I went there - well, you know what I was thinking (and that was just the outside). 

Sorry for any misunderstandings. 
Dave


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## BHR

What's the big deal about big fuel guzzling trucks?

Take this beauty - Nice looking, great on gas, hauls one hell of a load and the ladies think it's so hot looking. Just picture yourself at the H-D buying materials and all them ho's checking out your cool wheels - they'd think you were one serious contractor dude and be calling you for your high quotes. With a truck like this you can charge to the limit since you would be the only dude in town with a heavy duty rig like this one.

Oh the mercy of it all...where's my Workforce tools!


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## HanerEnterprise

Put a trailer hitch on it and pull around a trailer loaded with concrete... that's a good time!


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## Winchester

BHR said:


> What's the big deal about big fuel guzzling trucks?
> 
> Take this beauty - Nice looking, great on gas, hauls one hell of a load and the ladies think it's so hot looking. Just picture yourself at the H-D buying materials and all them ho's checking out your cool wheels - they'd think you were one serious contractor dude and be calling you for your high quotes. With a truck like this you can charge to the limit since you would be the only dude in town with a heavy duty rig like this one.
> 
> Oh the mercy of it all...where's my Workforce tools!


Is that a ferrari crest? :laughing:

Anyway, I'd like to see him cornering with that load.


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## XanadooLTD

why not go this route!


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## HanerEnterprise

...so there I was, going down the road at 4 mph, minding my own business, when this green Volvo comes up on me. No sir, he's not getting by me... until I say so!


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## Mike Finley

HanerEnterprise said:


> Put a trailer hitch on it and pull around a trailer loaded with concrete... that's a good time!


Where are the wheelie bars?


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## XanadooLTD

it says the truck is a ferrari! even better


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## BobsLandscaping

It showed oil pressure on the gauge, but the oil wasn't flowing. That's my understanding. It ran fine during the test drive.


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## J F

bob, you don't make this shiite up, do you? :blink:


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## BobsLandscaping

At least my 27 year old F-150 with over 400,000 miles on it is still running. Don't have third gear, but it gets me around. Towed the Dodge back to the dealer with it.


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## J F

If you're writing a check for the truck, you can write the check to your attorney for a few hundred to get it taken care of. Really, you shouldn't have to, but if ya have to....

Sorry to hear it though man, I know it's gotta be fvkn frustrating.


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## BobsLandscaping

The dealer called me this morning, told me the truck was lettered and ready to go. So I drove over w/ the F-150 and my trailer. Hooked the trailer up to the Dodge, loaded the F-150 and went.

At first I was really impressed, the Dodge pulled the F-150 no problems. Stopped well too. Very nice. Then the Dodge started to lose power, all the gauges read normal. I had it floored in D and was only doing 23mph when I pulled over. Then it died. Dealer told me to bring it back.

So I unhooked the trailer and loaded the Dodge on. I had to put it in 4x4 low and pin it to get it up the ramp. No power whatsoever. It'd barely come off idle. I had to pump the the foot feed to get it going.

Getting it back sucked. Took first gear to get it going, double clutch into second, run up to 25, then into 4th. Made it back though.

I should have taken a picture of my brand new truck being towed by my old POS.

I'm going to give them the opportunity to make it right, my attorney does know whats going on. I also hired my regular mechanic that takes care of my Ford and all my equipment to go over and make an assessment. I trust him and have for years.


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## Schmidt & Co

As much as it sucks, I'd say you are handling it the right way. Hiring your mechanic as a third party to inspect it was a smart move.....


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## WarnerConstInc.

I still say lemon law. You should get a new, new truck.


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## SLSTech

Man, just when we finally got him talked into a diesel

So any pics of the Ford pulling the Dodge?


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## BobsLandscaping

Just heard from my mechanic. Jason says the engine was starved for oil due to blocked passages. There was little to no oil getting out of the pan and around the engine. He says anything that needs oil for lubrication needs to be replaced, including the ring. The dealer says the ring is still serviceable and other than some blue smoke I shouldn't have any problems with it.

At this point I'm strongly considering giving back the truck. My old Ford doesn't blow blue smoke and I don't think it's acceptable for a new truck. Either that or I will hire my mechanic to replace the engine ring. I'm waiting to hear from the GM of the dealer on whether or not they will replace the ring. He has to get the warranty ok from Cummins.

They did offer me the use of a loaner Dakota while the truck is being worked on since my F-150's transmission is missing third. However the Dakota doesn't have a hitch or trailer wiring on it, so it's about useless.


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## WarnerConstInc.

Lean on them Bob, sounds to me like like that whole engine is shot. I wouldnt want a brand new truck that had a patched together engine.

Freakin' Dodge, and they wonder why they have a bad rep.

New Truck Bob. You paid cash, they should be licking your ball sweat just for that alone. Make them give you a new truck and dont pay for the document fee's.

What's the dealers number, I'll give them a call for you.


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## SLSTech

Nope - get a new engine or truck


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## BobsLandscaping

The GM called me, Cummins wants the truck shipped to their regional service center in Salt Lake City, UT. They want to do a QC analysis to determine why the engine failed prematurely. They're picking the truck up next week Friday. The analysis, engine replacement, and return shipping will take about 4 weeks. 

That really sucks, I told him I wanted a new truck. He said he'd see if he could find an identical one in inventory somewhere and get it here for me.


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## Handymanservice

Bob,

Go down there and get us a picture of this truck, also the VIN number, that way no one else on here buys it later.

You do not have to wait 4 weeks, you don't have to accept a POS loaner, you paid for a new truck, get a new truck. If this dealer isn't willing to help you, cancel your check and move on.

You do have a camera on your cell phone right? Get us a picture.


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## Handymanservice

You ever hear that Brad Paisley song "online"? That reminds me of Bob. It just seems like this cannot be real life, the stuff that happens to him.


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## Mike Finley

I'd find me a Ford dealership.


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## BobsLandscaping

I don't listen to much country music but I have heard of that song.





 
The VIN off the paperwork is 3D7MX38L39G551994.

Will get pics before it goes off to Utah.


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## davitk

I'm not sure you're for real anymore either, Bob. So many things going so wrong, and you're so cool about it...... :no: nope, definitely not a contractor.


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## Inner10

Thats ironic concidering the Cummins engine has an excellent reputation. 

Bob, back when I went through a number of VW automobiles we use to joke that if you put a VW manuel tranny in your trunk you would never have any problems because all the problems would be attracted to it. On this forum it seems that you have taken on the roll of attracting all the BS of life leaving the rest of us happy as clams; thanks!:thumbsup:


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## StreamlineGT

How's the F-350 looking now?


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## WarriorWithWood

Bob,
Listen to the others, get either a complete new engine, or a new truck. Don't settle for anything less, that repaired motor won't last nearly as long as a new one.

Dodge BLOWS!


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## WarriorWithWood

I'll take the fact that you didn't reply as a yes, it was all BS.


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## Handymanservice

Bump! Oh Bob, where are you?


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## JSB

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Man Bob, just because you got ***** slapped at the gas station, does not mean you have to ***** out on us!!
> 
> Come one Bob the crowd is growing restless and angry!!


Where might one read about this infamous gas station incident?

I have no thought either way if Bob is making this up or not. You always hope that people are what they say they are. 

What I do know that picking up a brand new truck that breaks (and in a big way) on the ride home needs to be returned for a full refund.
Very scary handing over money to a company that may or may not be there 4 years down the road. Oh, that's right, The government is going to cover the warranty :thumbsup:
Bad machines do slip out once in a while but that doesn't mean the end user (Bob) has to take a less than perfect truck. Buying something for the long term as he stated, he should run away from it as fast as he can.

Karma is saying that this is not the right truck.


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## Darwin

:laughing:

Bob is what you call a "picture painter". He can tell you a great story in fascinating description. Look how popular this thread is? And he is very popular. no?

Ya gotta love a storyteller. Here in interweb land, sometimes it's about the story whether believeable or not. I take everything with a grain of salt is all im sayin'

remember-- when you're "paintin' pictures", you gotta remember to stick to the original storylines. Most people can't :laughing:






Hmmmmm... :shifty:


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## J F

I think Bob was kidnapped by terrorists after returning his truck and is awaiting Jack Bauer's daring rescue, in which Bob will end up getting Jack outta the shiite and home safely...:laughing:


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## OGStilts

How come Bob's posts always draw so much interest. I think Bob has become the man's version of reality TV.


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## Handymanservice

Personally, I kinda think it's bull**** that he is not replying to this thread. If someone called me out, especially publicly, I would surely defend my good name.

Bob, I enjoy reading your posts, even if this is bull****, just come clean so we can all decide how we feel. You obviously know that we have asked you to respond. When we don't ask you, you are all over stuff.

If I am wrong and this is really happening to you, I want to help. I will write a letter to the GM of the dealership, I will email and call him, just tell me what dealer and we can all tell him how BS this is.


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## davitk

Bob?


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## WarriorWithWood

Bob,
Are you ever going to fess up or prove us wrong?


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## ampman

davitk said:


> Bob?


 these are the pics of the old truck he used to pull the new one back to the dealer


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## J F

I'm pretty sure bob is really mickeyco :shifty:


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## DBCoop

One of the more enjoyable threads to date! BOB....come clean!!!!!!....and if landscaping doesn't work out for you.....I think politics could be your calling


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## J F

...that or punching-bag :w00t:


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## mmike032

any updates of the Bob saga yet?
and today on "Days Of Our Lives"............


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## angus242

Bob pulled a Sarah Palin on this thread...:confused1:


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## Darwin

mmike032 said:


> any updates of the* Bob saga* yet?
> and today on "Days Of Our Lives"............


whose "Bob Saga?"

didn't he host America's Funniest Home Videos at one time or nother?


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## OGStilts

Bob has let us all down here...I think this calls for a :ban:

Not a permanant one, just a week in the penalty box should do


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## WarriorWithWood

1 week ban.......I vote yes, unless he replies.


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## davitk

Why do I keep checking back on this thread it's dead.

Yep, ban Bob. Ban him to the DIY Forum :thumbup:


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## OGStilts

davitk said:


> Yep, ban Bob. Ban him to the DIY Forum :thumbup:


:laughing: Man, the DIY Forum, that's harsh...but I think this punishment fits the crime. :thumbup:


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