# Supposed energy saver



## newenergy (Mar 5, 2008)

http://kvarnrg.com/

http://www.cr-max.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVhoEwS9WHI


These things are supposedly plugging in a capacitor and saving you a lot of power. I'm close to 100% sure this is a scam.

Know anything about this?


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

Total nonsense. A load draws what it needs, no more no less. The load determines the current draw, not the supply. There is a lot of this BS going around now from people that don't have a clue about what energy is. I still have a bringe for sale in northern Arizona, cheap.


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## newenergy (Mar 5, 2008)

Yeah, I mean it's dumb of me to even ask, but a client was asking about it and I wanted to say something more than it's just common sense. If it worked, people would have them. The utility company would use it.

I'd try to go with a law of physics argument, but there's some wiggle room in efficiency or smoothing out irregularities of the power supply (unless you know more about it and go into a lot of detail) or something that it's not as simple as just saying it violates conservation of energy.

The client told me there's someone driving around town that is apparently installing these things.


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

I think you guys must have been sleeping in electronics 101 class. It's been a long time since my electronics days, but this has to do with Inductive loads vs Resistive loads. Inductive loads require not only apparent power, but also reactive power. I don't remember the formula, but a comparison of these two types of power will give you the Power Factor. A motor typically has a lower power factor than say an incandecent light of the same wattage. The motor will use more power than the light because some of the power is wasted maintaining the magnetic field of the inductor. I'm sure someone else could explain this much better than I, but I do know that capacitors are used all the time in industrial equipment to make corrections for power factor which reduces consumption.

Rob


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

robertc65 said:


> I think you guys must have been sleeping in electronics 101 class....


Yeah, but residential electric bills are measured and calculated by kilowatts, not Kvar's. Reactive power and poor power factor doesn't matter, as resi customers aren't penalized for poor power factor. They're only measuring kilowatts. These power save gadgets have been around for years, and yes, they are a scam. Save your money.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Odd isn't it?
People are dusting off all of the
same old gas, oil, electrical "savings"
gadgets, gimmicks, and scams
that went around in the last energy
crunch.
Just selling them to people too young
or dumb to remember them. :laughing:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

neolitic said:


> Odd isn't it?
> People are dusting off all of the
> same old gas, oil, electrical "savings"
> gadgets, gimmicks, and scams
> ...


Yeah, the 100 miles per gallon carbureator will be back, but it will be some sort of 300 mile fuel injection gizmo.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

It all falls under the hat of "Going Green". Theres a Sucker born every minute.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Speaking of Green.... this new Planet Green network knocked Mike Holmes off my cable television menu.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Discovery Networks at its best! See ya Mikey Boy!

Green. Green. Green. As I said.....There is a Sucker born every minute.

Green is good. Just now the way "they" are promoting it.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I liked Holmes on Homes.

I think every contractor should be as good as him.

And I think seeking customers that'll pay for those jobs to be done right the first time is also important.


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## newenergy (Mar 5, 2008)

Come to think of it a band of crazy bearded guys and hairy legged women threw blood on my SUV and told me if I didn't install this product I was a baby killer.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

You're right!
The real green is
$6, $7, $8 gasoline. 
$1000 monthly heat bills.:thumbsup:


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## Waco (May 22, 2008)

I don't know about Holmes on Homes. I think anybody can critique somebody else's work, especially if what they did didn't work. Doesn't mean they were incompetent. Things can and do go wrong even on the very best crews.


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## bauler (Nov 10, 2006)

The other day at the local coffee shop a guy was bragging about improving his gas mileage by 40% running on water. Something about putting a couple of probes from the battery in a bottle of water and feeding the hydrogen gas into the fuel injectors along with the gas. Someone there knew I was an electrician asked my option, told him I don't think so. You would have thought I insulted his religion. I guess I am now part of the establishment that is trying to keep this a secret.

If I remember right you can get hydrogen gas from water by electrolysis. But could you get enough to run a car. Just mix it with gasoline? Yea, right.

Like Md said in a residential setting power factor is not really an issue. Its been a while since I took electric 101, but I know when my BS meter is pegging.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

bauler said:


> If I remember right you can get hydrogen gas from water by electrolysis. But could you get enough to run a car. Just mix it with gasoline? Yea, right.


A couple things are true. It is true that you can run an engine on either straight hydrogen or a mixture of hydrogen and gasoline. It is also true that this will improve the miles per gallon of gasoline. It is further true that hydrogen can be derived by seperating it out of water with DC electricity. What is not said, and why this is falls into the myth category, is that the amount of DC power required to get any substantial amount of hydrogen is huge. The batteries, many of them, would need recharged on a very frequent basis from an AC wall socket with a shore power cord. The amount spent on electricity to recharge the batteries exceeds the value of any fuel savings realized.


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

Going green is nothing more then a transfer of wealth in this country. We are only one country on this planet. So if we go green and the other countries don't its not going to matter. However the cost of manufacturing going green will kill the consumer and put industry out of business in this country. I not saying energy star rated homes are a bad ideal. We have already lost so many manufacturing jobs to other countries. What is going to happen when they realize the financial price tag of having to go green in this country. THERE OUT OF HERE.

Ps. Good to see MD SHUNK IS STILL AROUND.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

747 said:


> Going green is nothing more then a transfer of wealth in this country. We are only one country on this planet. So if we go green and the other countries don't its not going to matter. However the cost of manufacturing going green will kill the consumer and put industry out of business in this country. I not saying energy star rated homes are a bad ideal. We have already lost so many manufacturing jobs to other countries. What is going to happen when they realize the financial price tag of having to go green in this country. THERE OUT OF HERE.
> 
> Ps. Good to see MD SHUNK IS STILL AROUND.



Finally !!!! Someone here gets what is REALLY going on!


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Yes it's such a scam that more and more
companies all the time are realizing their
dollar spent on energy, water, maintenance
saving now will only be returned
many times over in the future.
All of that money wasted, so sad.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

:laughing: Sorry, just can't stop laughing!
I keep imagining all of the people and
corporations waking one morning and
discovering how they've been scammed,
when gasoline drops back to $0.399! :laughing:
And electricity is free again! :laughing:
And new aquifers are being discovered left
and right! :clap::laughing::laughing:

How foolish they will feel when they finally 
see that it was all a scam.:sad:
Trying to be more efficient is sooo foolish.:thumbsup:


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