# Deposit refund?



## Deville665 (Nov 21, 2011)

Hi, I am new to this forum and am looking for some info.. maybe one of you have had to deal with my situation.

I have been dealing with a customer for 2 years... yes 2 years. The project has not actually started yet and I have a feeling that he is going to ask for his deposit back.

Now generally I would have no problem giving it back because i have not actually started the work. The problem that i am facing is that i have spent a lot of time working on his plans and designs (re quoted and redesigned 6 times), also i have booked him in for the work to be started on more than one occasion (booking a month at a time). Having him booked, i turned down a lot of other work from new potential customers.

Does anyone have any advice that they can give me on how to deal with this, or what they have done if they have been in this situation?

Correction - i have started the work. The piles for the deck were installed 2 years ago.

Thanks in advance for any help


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

You won't get anything in turned down work if you go to court. You'll never be able to prove an accurate dollar amount. Plus it was your choice to turn it down.

What I *would* be doing is counting up meticulously your hours spent on the project and multiply that with your rate, plus profit and overhead. If he asks for his deposit back, you will need to give it back, minus the work you have put in. 

BTW....you HAVE already started. The time you have put into the plans and phone time....that is called work. This is what you subtract from the deposit.


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## essrmo (May 2, 2007)

Deville665 said:


> Hi, I am new to this forum and am looking for some info.. maybe one of you have had to deal with my situation.
> 
> I have been dealing with a customer for 2 years... yes 2 years. The project has not actually started yet and I have a feeling that he is going to ask for his deposit back.
> 
> ...


Hope for the best, plan for the worst.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

What does your contract say regarding deposits?

I would figure how much you spent on materials, add up your time and then deduct it from the deposit amount, might be he owes you some money. Did you order all materials at the time of deposit?


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## Deville665 (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks guys. 

hopefully it works out, it just seems like i have wasted so much time and energy on this project and am probably going to get screwed. 

I guess everyone needs that one "nightmare" client

... 2 years, unreal


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## Deville665 (Nov 21, 2011)

" all deposits are non-refundable "

The only material purchased were the piles for the deck, 

Reason being is that he had already re-scheduled the start date twice by this time


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

It seems that this is a project that won't end well if you actually do start so it's time to dump it. Take the initiative. 

Write up a final invoice enumerating your time (since signing the original contract) and costs. This will include your time re-designing as well as the time lost in re-scheduling. Subtract this amount from the original deposit. Send him the balance and be done with him. 

If you come up with more in charges than the deposit, just include a discount after the final number that will bring the amount to $0.00.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

A deposit is exactly that. A payment in good faith to allow the contractor to book the job into his schedule, and to begin the planning process for timing, labour, and material. IT is not necessarily refundable.
In Ontario, a deposit is refundable within 10 days of the original contract being signed. According to the Consumer Protection act, if the contractor is more than 30 days late past the original promised date, the deposit then does become refundable. However, if the customer agrees to an extension of the scheduled start date, the deposit is no longer refundable, period.
For those of you doing business in Ontario, please note: if your contract does not have certain parts of the Consumer Protection act, particularly the bits about timing and deposits, the contract is unenforceable. In other words, you can do the job, and the legal-savvy customer can turn around and say to you "I wasn't advised of my rights as a consumer, so I'm not paying a penny." He'll be 100% in the right. Just like the Miranda Law in the U.S. where Police have to read you your rights when they arrest you. If they don't, even if you are an axe murderer, you are off scott free.
At this point you are legally stuck. I do have this in my contract, and I make sure to get people to sign it. Had to pay my Lawyer $2000 to write it all up.

On the other hand, if you don't do something that IS in the contract, it is also unenforceable by the H.O. , but then they don't have to pay.


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## Deville665 (Nov 21, 2011)

I agree with you Thom,

Maybe it is time to cut this one loose. It has been a thorn in my side for quite some time.

On a side note. This forum is great, im am glad i joined. Two hours in and so far everyone has been helpful


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

You gotta be thinking about this guy day and night...for two years?! Time to let it go so you can focus on more productive pursuits. If he can't make up his mind, let him drive someone else crazy instead of you.


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## Splinter hands (Aug 31, 2011)

The delay in the start date is because of the HO right. You keep the deposit.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Stone Mountain said:


> Just like the Miranda Law in the U.S. where Police have to read you your rights when they arrest you. If they don't, even if you are an axe murderer, you are off scott free.


:no: Miranda law is there to protect against self incrimination. If it is not read they do not get off, the police just cannot use anything that they say in court to incriminate the suspect, however they can use what they say to gain further evidence.
_
"The constitution *does not* require that a defendant be advised of the Miranda rights as part of the arrest procedure, or once officer has probable cause to arrest, or if the defendant has become a suspect of the focus of an investigation, Custody and interrogation are the events that trigger the duty to warn."_


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## essrmo (May 2, 2007)

thom said:


> It seems that this is a project that won't end well if you actually do start so it's time to dump it. Take the initiative.
> 
> Write up a final invoice enumerating your time (since signing the original contract) and costs. This will include your time re-designing as well as the time lost in re-scheduling. Subtract this amount from the original deposit. Send him the balance and be done with him.
> 
> If you come up with more in charges than the deposit, just include a discount after the final number that will bring the amount to $0.00.


I like it except for the discount part. If it was the other way around, the customer would still want a refund.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

essrmo said:


> I like it except for the discount part. If it was the other way around, the customer would still want a refund.


Some times it's better to be the better person and walk away. This is what Thom is telling him. Fight for more will end up costing him more at the end of the day


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

As a business owner you will take a lot of crap and give back very little. Got to make it seem like the client is better off taking the deal than not.


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## Deville665 (Nov 21, 2011)

So I finally got ahold of this guy.

He has aborted the project and would like me to figure out what i am owed and give him the remained of the deposit.

Thanks to everybody for the advice and pointers, you have all been a great help.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Wow sounds like a decent enough customer.


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## Italian75 (Aug 14, 2011)

*Deposit Refund*

We had our first cancelation this year and we got our lawyer involved. We signed a contract and because of the county had to wait 4 weeks for the permit for a deck. Went to go get the permit and homeowner decided to increase the deck size to add about $6,000 to the project for a total contract price of $36,000. We were supposed to start the job on monday and got a call on friday as we were picking up the permit that he wanted to cancel now this was 6 weeks after the contract was signed. In our contract we have a cancelation fee of
15% now the issue comes into with this situation I have a crew that does not have a job to go to. I can not get 15% of the new $6,000. We added to our cancelation clause fees associated with work done up until the point of cancelation. Make sure to change your contract for the future and that is what our lawyer did for us. We said that if the circumstances were different we would give them credit if they went with us in the furture.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

The way that I see is that anyone who can let you hold a deposit for 2 years without starting the work probably has forgotten that they hired you in the first place.


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## baronbuildings (Jul 26, 2011)

*nightmare client*



Deville665 said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> hopefully it works out, it just seems like i have wasted so much time and energy on this project and am probably going to get screwed.
> 
> ...


I have you beat
I have a customer suing me for a building he never ordered or paid for
He is suing me for my sales price difference and the money he spent to get another building. 
LOL
He is in breach of the contract 
The end


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