# Insurance Work....



## GSMB Inc. (Aug 20, 2005)

General discussion about advantages and disadvantages of doing insurance work. Do you like to do insurance work? What’s the best way to get insurance work? I live in Oakland CA.


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

The best way is to lower your prices until you aren't making any money. At that point, your rates will match what the insurance companies are willing to pay, and you'll get along just fine with the adjusters. If you plan on making a decent wage, or god forbid, a profit- skip the insurance work.

Seriously, it's tough to make it in insurance work unless you've got big crews with low-paid workers, and are able to keep your overhead low at the same time (sounds impossible, doesn't it?). Insurance companies can alway find someone to do it for the rates they offer. In a few cases, I've seen contractors get their asking price, rather than what the insurance company is willing to pay, but that's usually when the market's flooded with business and no one's willing to dive down low for a job.

Just my 2 cents.

Bob


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Bob is right for his and your area. Ins. Co's. use complex software to calculate payments. After the recent storms here, the money flowed like water.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Personally, - - I've only seen one guy (local) makin' any 'real' money doing insurance work.

He's now awaiting 'sentencing'.


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

I disagree that insurance work does not pay.

I do tons of insurance work. In fact, near 1/3 of what I do is insurance.
Close to $250,000 a year. And it is growing.

Here is the trick...

Get in good with an adjuster, or with a company. Either an insurance company or a restoration business.
Yes your initial quotes to stay within allowance will be at a low mark. But 70% of the jobs I do are upgrades.
Let's face it...These people are having work done, and now the opportunity to do more is ripe.
Keep that mindset, and watch the profit margins grow.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Interesting, Flor, - - not disputing you, - - I'm down here in Jersey, - - the 'Corruption-Capital'.

Does the adjuster get a 10% kickba, - - err, - - finder's fee??


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## Rich Turley (Apr 9, 2005)

I have run into problems with small jobs where something is priced by the square foot, like drywall for instance. They may quote a square foot price which would be okay for 1500 sq ft, but for 9 square feet in two different areas it is ridiculous. Some adjusters understand and others will fight you. I also ask for 20% for O & P. 

What frys me is when the H/O gets the itemization from the insurance that you have put hours into negotiating and educating the adjuster, then shops it around. I then go after the H/O for the O & P.

Rich


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

> Does the adjuster get a 10% kickba, - - err, - - finder's fee??


No. But I make things run very smoothly, and that makes customers happy.


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## Insuranceclaims (Aug 31, 2009)

GSMB Inc. said:


> General discussion about advantages and disadvantages of doing insurance work. Do you like to do insurance work? What’s the best way to get insurance work? I live in Oakland CA.


This is a very broad subject.

I have been in the insurance restoration field for 18 years, and have worked both sides of the insurance fence, as a restorer (working for the property owner) and adjuster (working for the carriers).

I am only going to list a few items in this post for now:

Advantages
---Recession proof
---Generate an additional source of income
---very rewarding if you enjoy helping others 

Disadvantages
---Be ready to work 24/7/365
---requires a lot of preparation before getting heavily involved, such as awareness of proper personnel, training, certifications, equipment, marketing, proper business forms, understanding how to perform Emergency Services, estimating, dealing with insurance adjusters and carriers, understanding the claims process, proper insurance ,dealing with mortgage lenders, empathy with the customer and time management.

---Be prepared to not get paid from 30-120 days. Understanding the claims process with clarify this pay out time frame.

Be prepared to be the "first one in" and the last one to get paid.

---Do not take on insurance projects without having a good understanding of all of the points above. I can assist you with further detail.

---Be prepared to understand that the insurance companies don't care about you.....at all.

---Property owners can be a Jekyl and Hyde. Everyone loves you when you show up to help, but when it comes time to get paid, some property owners can be difficult.

This is a multi-billion dollar business, and can be very profitable for the right person or company. This is a specialized field, and it is not for everyone.

I love this field and have worked nationwide.

Do not jump into this field without addressing many of the bullet points I listed above. You will be doing both the customer and yourself a great injustice if you are not prepared.

There are so many variables involved, it is not possible to list everything. Further information can be provided.

Well, this is just a small taste of what's out there. I could talk for hours and help contractors nationwide.


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## Insuranceclaims (Aug 31, 2009)

GSMB Inc. said:


> General discussion about advantages and disadvantages of doing insurance work. Do you like to do insurance work? What’s the best way to get insurance work? I live in Oakland CA.


This is a very broad subject.

I have been in the insurance restoration field for 18 years, and have worked both sides of the insurance fence, as a restorer (working for the property owner) and adjuster (working for the carriers).

I am only going to list a few items in this post for now:

Advantages
---Recession proof
---Generate an additional source of income
---very rewarding if you enjoy helping others 

Disadvantages
---Be ready to work 24/7/365
---requires a lot of preparation before getting heavily involved, such as awareness of proper personnel, training, certifications, equipment, marketing, proper business forms, understanding how to perform Emergency Services, estimating, dealing with insurance adjusters and carriers, understanding the claims process, proper insurance ,dealing with mortgage lenders, empathy with the customer and time management.

---Be prepared to not get paid from 30-120 days. Understanding the claims process with clarify this pay out time frame.

Be prepared to be the "first one in" and the last one to get paid.

---Do not take on insurance projects without having a good understanding of all of the points above. I can assist you with further detail.

---Be prepared to understand that the insurance companies don't care about you.....at all.

---Property owners can be a Jekyl and Hyde. Everyone loves you when you show up to help, but when it comes time to get paid, some property owners can be difficult.

This is a multi-billion dollar business, and can be very profitable for the right person or company. This is a specialized field, and it is not for everyone.

I love this field and have worked nationwide.

Do not jump into this field without addressing many of the bullet points I listed above. You will be doing both the customer and yourself a great injustice if you are not prepared.

There are so many variables involved, it is not possible to list everything. Further information can be provided.

Well, this is just a small taste of what's out there. I could talk for hours and help contractors nationwide.


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## annv (Mar 5, 2014)

*insurance work = $*

In almost everyones insurance policy there is a clause labeled Appraisal. This process does take longer than just moving forward and taking what the insurance carrier gives the insured but in the end the money and profit is there! Contact me and I can give you more details!


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## annv (Mar 5, 2014)

If anyone ever needs an estimate written I would be more than happy to assist you in this. I use Xactimate software to create the estimate which is the same software most insurance carriers use. Message me! Thanks!


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## Walraven (Jan 24, 2014)

Been doing insurance reinstatment work for three years now for a company that has done it for thirty .
Its a mugs game low rates and your everyones whipping boy


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Low rates because you don't know. It's a learning curve for sure. This is my 4th year at it and I would do just insurance work if I could find it. 

The amount of money I've spent over the years on insurance and my customers who've also paid for years I see a project eligible for a claim I tell my customer, meet the adjuster and hand him XM estimate and it's a done deal. 

A properly written estimate will pay appropriately just as a bad one won't. 

Learn how to write one or hire it out to someone who will and XM is a standard- nobody said you have to go by their pricing- adjust as needed but using the format is how you speak the same language as adjusters. 

I've handled 2 jobs last year that no adjuster even showed up- written and documented properly and it's straight forward.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Floorwizard said:


> No. But I make things run very smoothly, and that makes customers happy.


And illegal.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Rich Turley said:


> I have run into problems with small jobs where something is priced by the square foot, like drywall for instance. They may quote a square foot price which would be okay for 1500 sq ft, but for 9 square feet in two different areas it is ridiculous. Some adjusters understand and others will fight you. I also ask for 20% for O & P.
> 
> What frys me is when the H/O gets the itemization from the insurance that you have put hours into negotiating and educating the adjuster, then shops it around. I then go after the H/O for the O & P.
> 
> Rich


A couple notes here:

Base service charges not 9sq ft that's part of understanding the claims process. 

There are ways to avoid the customer shopping around. Proper educating the customer is one. Selling your company is two. Signing a contract is three. 
One is the groundwork of any business 

Unless you are one well referred contractor given jobs without pricing or meeting customers two is just part of it. 

Three- well we are "contractors " aren't we so write a contract. 

For the record- I don't believe in contingency or blank spaces contracts they are just... Dishonest. 

When a job turns into a claim I have a signed, line item contract with the customer- that gets handed to the field adjuster (or emailed to the desk adjuster) and if it's a real claim it gets bought every time.


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## Walraven (Jan 24, 2014)

Rates are determined by the insurance company with their calculators .a quote is simply a matter of entering square/lineal metres and charge up labour is about twenty dollars an hour less than industry standard


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Walraven said:


> Rates are determined by the insurance company with their calculators .a quote is simply a matter of entering square/lineal metres and charge up labour is about twenty dollars an hour less than industry standard


I'm going into these details mostly because I left A LOT of money on my table on my first few insurance jobs and I want everyone (including my competition reading along) to not (1) Leave money on the proverbial table or (2) price against me too cheap. 

Years ago I too wouldn't take these jobs because like it's been posted I either didn't get the job because the owners shopped with the check or the adjuster brought another contractor wiht them. 

Your hourly rate is what it is not what they think it is. 

Prove you pay $65 and hour for a mechanic and you get $65 + 10% profit + 10% overhead which works out to $78. 

XM has roofers here at $99. 



Also, the XM is also not the end of the line as far as what you charge but I find it's better pay. Why? Because too many guys measure a 20 square roof multiply by $350 a square and price their job $7,000 (not so hypotheticaly speaking). 

Try adding in:

1. Removal asphalt shingle w/ felt (SQ)
2. Replace asphalt shingle w/ felt (SQ)
3. Replace I & W (SF)
4. Remove and replace ridgecap (LF)
5. Remove and replace drip edge (LF)
6. Remove and replace wall flashing (LF)
7. Remove and replace step flashing (LF)
8. Remove and replace chimney flashing (EA)
9. Remove and replace pipe jacks (EA)
10. Remove and rpleace continious ridge vent (shingle over style)
11. Renail decking (SF)
12. Dumpster load (EA) -dumptruck, dumptrailer whatever you use. 

Where applicable
Steep? 7-9/12 or 10-12/12 or mansurd.

13. Removal asphalt shingles addional charge- steep 
14. Replace asphalt shingles addional charge- steep

2 stories? 3 stories?

15. Remove asphalt shingles addional charge- high
16. Replace asphalt shingles addional charge- high

10% profit
10% overhead

Base service charges. 

Get the roof off, and have to replace three sheets of plywood, most guys give the first one - three sheets away.

1/2" CDX $66.78. 


There are a lot more real line items like:

Metal valleys

Siding repairs (required to replace flashing).

Extra protection set up.

Skylight details.

Remove and replace gutters.

Tarps.

Onsite supervisor (commercial projects with foot traffic- someone to monitor the pedestrians), ect.





For reference I pulled up my last three XM estimates and divided the total estimate by squares.

Standing seam- off and on walkable 135 sq $1,074 per sq.
Asphalt- off and on- monster 1-3 stories 35 sq $595 per sq
Asphalt- off and on- two planes- Mansurd- gutte rline 11' off the ground 9 sq $695 per sq. 

So I guess if you want to keep bidding at $350 a square x squares go right ahead!


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## Walraven (Jan 24, 2014)

I see your point makes sense .unfortunatly I believe the company we do the bulk of our work for dosent let us price like that according to them its as straightforward as remove replace no variables allowed for.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

I just noticed we are in different countries. A couple thigs you might try is a calling the state does in reference to controling insurance work. 

If you are in front of the insured, provide a detailed line item estimate with your prices and sign them up. If they want to job done right those line items are part of it. Explaining this to the homeowner is straight forward- when the claim is considered a loss and payable you've got the job and it's now the adjusters job to explain to the insured why certain line items are not included. 

Then there is the common issue of adjusters bringing in insurer preferred contractor or threat therof. 

Here, they also need to now convince the insured that your price is too high- and they have their own contractor who will obviously do it for less than you- otherwise how else would they benefit? Answer? Warranty. Insurance Co preferred need to provide a extended warranty- tone of the main reasons I became a Certified Roofer to offset that objection. 

If a company wants to be in this insurance work as a specialty- it is similar to typical selling against other contractors. Sharing knowledge, educating customers, helping customers is what it takes to get what you are worth in any side of this business. 

Also upselling to better products are a way to offset pricing.


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## Walraven (Jan 24, 2014)

Yeah we're talking different things I think .the insured has an event or loss they call insurance. loss adjuster sets the scope of repair ,then we price to that scope.we contract to the insurance company not the homeowner


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

Walraven said:


> Yeah we're talking different things I think .the insured has an event or loss they call insurance. loss adjuster sets the scope of repair ,then we price to that scope.we contract to the insurance company not the homeowner


I think that is a direct conflict of interest with an apparent insurance company advanatage, excessive advantage. 

What protects the insured from not being returned to pre loss condition?

Insurance can charge what they want and pay what they want? Thats crazy! 

Do you have strict codes department to monitor and oversee proper installs?


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## Walraven (Jan 24, 2014)

Insured have no protection our hands are tied we only get paid what insurance will cover its a constant battle the only winner in the whole situation is the insurance company.so like I said over here its a mugs game


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## twill59 (Aug 14, 2009)

Last 2 insurance jobs (State Farm) 1 customer made up the difference in what the insurance would pay and what I charged. 2nd customer was so embarrassed by the college kids/ lawyers who have become the Construction Worlds Braintrust here, that he just gave me $400 upon completion.

My next move? I will be canceling State Farm on my homeowner's policy when we come up for renewal. I may pay more, but I expect if anything happens, my treatment will be better.

Any recommendations on an Insurance Carrier?


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## Insuranceclaims (Aug 31, 2009)

twill59 said:


> Last 2 insurance jobs (State Farm) 1 customer made up the difference in what the insurance would pay and what I charged. 2nd customer was so embarrassed by the college kids/ lawyers who have become the Construction Worlds Braintrust here, that he just gave me $400 upon completion.
> 
> My next move? I will be canceling State Farm on my homeowner's policy when we come up for renewal. I may pay more, but I expect if anything happens, my treatment will be better.
> 
> Any recommendations on an Insurance Carrier?


I have worked with over 50 carriers nationwide as an adjuster or restorer. I would recommend ASI, http://www.americanstrategic.com/, or USAA, www.USAA.com ........see if they are located in your state. 

As a restorer, I have worked with ASI in multiple states, and they are very reasonable. If you ever have a claim or are working claims as a restorer, be sure and have your emergency service and preliminary repair scope prepared before they arrive. This will allow you to give them written documents, so that you can walk the job together and get a verbal agreement on the damage. If they arrive in less than 3 days from the initial call, and, Emergency Services are still in progress, they will wait for that scope. If you don't know how to prepare a scope of work based on insurance guidelines, I can help. Dealing with insurance property claims is totally unlike dealing with new construction, remodel or handyman work.

As an adjuster and restorer, I have worked claims for USAA nationwide. USAA only used to accept military personnel as members. This is the only carrier nationwide that is member owned. I believe they now accept property owners without military backgrounds. USAA is top notch on taking care of their members on property claims. If you don't know how to prepare a scope of work based on insurance guidelines, I can help. Dealing with insurance property claims is totally unlike dealing with new construction, remodel or handyman work. If you don't know how to prepare a scope of work based on insurance guidelines, I can help.


Let me know if you need more help or have questions.


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