# Saw Stop,,,, I was waiting for this,,,,,



## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

Seems like it really doesn’t take that much energy or brainpower to work safe, but somehow people who shouldn’t be doing what they are doing still manage to get injured.
I think the safest power tool is the one not being used by an imbecile or other unqualified person.

Case in point, a few years ago I met a guy that cut off three of his fingers on the same hand at once with a circular saw because he was holding the board in his hand while cutting it. 
Believe it or not, he was an attorney working on his own house one weekend. I remember thinking... I hope he’s a better attorney than he is a handyman. :laughing:


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## MAD Renovations (Nov 18, 2007)

I really can not see this being passed.... I hope not anyway:no:


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## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

The rumor on the street is that the Sawstop inventor shopped the major brands to give them the technology, but none of them wanted to pay what he was offering.

I spoke to the Dewalt rep at a show and he said that they get sued almost every day of the week by users that have accidents. 99.99% of the time it is the fault of using the tool in a way that it is not intended to be used. Wrong blade size, wrong wheel, wrong application, etc. that causes the injury. The sad part is he said they often settle with the individual because the court costs end up being more, even though the manufacturer knows they can win.

We live in a money driven society and it costs "Us" the good consumers money when the manufacturers have to pay out on these absurd claims.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

He shopped it/showed it to everyone.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

With all the nonsense about the sawstop (whatever happened to personal responsibility or choice?). it is a wonder we still have motorcycles and guns.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Yep Joasis,,,,*

throwing the blame on inanimate objects and not taking any responsibility for our own actions,,, the wave of the future,,,, over my dead body- not in my house, not in my country, ahhh I am so frickin pissed what is happening to this country,:furious: 
Brian


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

They put seat belts in cars, then air bags, those are for our own safety right?

GFCI's are for our safety too right?


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> They put seat belts in cars, then air bags, those are for our own safety right?
> 
> GFCI's are for our safety too right?


So what is next? Saw stops for miter saws? How about guards for drill bits? Maybe a spring loaded bar protector for recip saws? 

Do you see where this is going? Maybe we can install parachutes on airplanes (yes, they have parachute systems for small aircraft)? 

I know...how about seat belts and fixed training wheels on motorcycles, as well as a helmet interlock so it won't start without one? 

Maybe...just maybe, we can insist on gloves that work like the chaps we use with chainsaws....wear then when you approach any spinning or rotating blade? 

Perhaps we should be able to choose the level of safety devices we want to use....and spend the money as we see fit. I don't like the idea of the government or lawyers determining how I live. 

And, my table saws do not have any of the guards. My choice. :thumbsup:


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

There is a reason we are professionals, we know how to use this equipment. I bet that most accidents happen, along with lawsuits are from joe homeowner trying to build his own deck because he didn't like the prices real contractors gave him. that is what is wrong, how long have saws been around, and now all of a sudden in 2010 they want to add some stupid device to our saws to increase the safety of it. I have alway taken the guard off my table saws, along with every other professional I know. If they really want to stop injuries, then make it so that only a professional contractor can purchase any dangerous piece of equipment. we show our contractor licenses at the store, we make the purchase. that is simple.
it's stupid to let all these morons go out and buy equipment when they were never trained by someone else on how to use them. All of us started out being trained by someone older than us, usually our first boss but some people were trained by their dad who had the business established already etc. These homeowners just go in to some box store and see some seminar on a thursday night and think they can all of a sudden finish their basement or build a deck or shed. These are the idiots getting hurt then they call a lawyer. Something has to be out there to protect the companies selling these products. The government and courts only want to protect the idiot with a few missing fingers. 
I don't let new employees even touch my saws or equipment until I have trained them the right way, most can't cut accurate enough for me anyways, so why even bother, just have them as an extra set of hands to hold stuff up. If someone has already been in the trade for a while then I can trust them cutting material safely. If i notice them doing something that is unsafe, I let them know.

This world is really going down the drain fast. Lawyers are running the show, and it's sickening. Pretty soon cars will be banned and we'll have to travel on some government built bubble highway where no one can get hurt and we are surrounded by foam peanuts. ahhhhhhh i'm going out to the shop to stick my head in the vise. then maybe i'll sue the company that made the vise because it never said on the box, Warning, do not stick your head in here and tighten..........

CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!!!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It's dangerous just waking up.

I think the SS opened a lot of doors for people to take up wood working as a hobby. There are a lot of people that are afraid of spinning blades.

I agree there should still be personal accountability but, what is wrong with trying to help someone enjoy the use of their hand or fingers?

The government and lawyers have been determining how we live for a lot longer then most of us have been alive.
Everything has safety standards.

I think people on motorcycles should have to wear a helmet. I have to wear a seatbelt, I used to ride a motorcycle for a few years and everytime I got on it, I put my helmet on. Seems silly to not wear a helmet on a motorcycle.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It's dangerous just waking up.
> 
> I think the SS opened a lot of doors for people to take up wood working as a hobby. There are a lot of people that are afraid of spinning blades.
> 
> ...


warner, that is fine, but i don't think every saw out there has to have the same device as the SS has. if homeowners want to get into wood working as hobby, then let them take a class at the local votech school and learn the basics. otherwise, leave it to the pros. I don't know how to operate heavy machinery, so I just simply stay off it. i know i could do it but i may do something stupid not knowing the result and then I could be killed, or hurt, do I then sue CAT because they made a bulldozer that caused me harm? 

some of these do it yourselfers shouldn't be allowed to buy saws when they have no prior experience using them. they are DANGEROUS, like i said before, i'd be happy to show my contractors license every time i had to buy a dangerous tool. that will keep homeowners who don't have a clue from getting hurt. if a homeowner wants to buy one then they must get a certificate that they are sufficient enough in wood working to operate the tool safely. i bet you would see a lot less accidents

the kapex would be about 4000 with some anti hot dog cutter on it.

they can't keep catering to the morons who cut their limbs off because they shouldnt' have been using the tool in the first place. stop suing companies that sell the tools with safe guards on them and people remove them

it's not the companies fault unless some part of the tool fails/breaks under normal use and the user gets hurt. if you run your hand into a table saw blade, that is NO ones fault but your own. get over and buy a hook.
everyone is looking to get rich quick at the expense of BIG corps.

no wonder why things cost so much as they do. 
we are paying for all these lawsuits in the end.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I don't think most of the accidents involve homeowners. How many carpenters have you seen with a part of a finger missing? In 25 years I have known more than a couple of guys with injuries from spinning blades. I am all for safety on tools. The current guards on table saws are useless. I think the real problem with the OP is the lawyers. We certainly need reform in this country to stop frivilous lawsuits.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

ok. I will give it to you that most accidents may not happen with homeowners but if you think about it, the % of homeowners that use them and get hurt are probably a lot higher than the number of contractors out there using them and not getting hurt.

jobsite accidents do happen but I think we as pros have a better chance of keeping our digits than joe homeowner trying to build his deck on the weekend with some Frat bros and some brewskies. 

i have personally met ZERO carpenters missing any figures, hands, toes, etc.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Most ho's don't buy a cabinet saw.

I know they have a contractor version but, not the style that most of us would use.

I don't know if it will go on portable saws like we most often use.

I see no issues with it having to be on a cabinet saw or the heavy duty contractor type saws.

Still cheaper then a trip to the ER and a missing digit or three.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

i never rush a cut and i never let my fingers get closer than an inch away from the side of the blade when pushing through stock. if it's not that important of a cut i just flip it and run it through from both sides. i've never had a close call where my fingers or hands were in danger of being chopped off or cut. i guess i'm just more careful than others, doesn't mean i work slow.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

ApgarNJ said:


> i never rush a cut and i never let my fingers get closer than an inch away from the side of the blade when pushing through stock. if it's not that important of a cut i just flip it and run it through from both sides. i've never had a close call where my fingers or hands were in danger of being chopped off or cut. i guess i'm just more careful than others, doesn't mean i work slow.


Knock, knock, knock on wood!!


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

knocking on the wooden table now.......


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ApgarNJ said:


> i never rush a cut and i never let my fingers get closer than an inch away from the side of the blade when pushing through stock. if it's not that important of a cut i just flip it and run it through from both sides. i've never had a close call where my fingers or hands were in danger of being chopped off or cut. i guess i'm just more careful than others, doesn't mean i work slow.



It's the mind, not the fingers you have to watch out for.

Mind drifts and it doesn't take much for a whoopsy.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I don't see the big deal, other then a little bit of law bending capitalism.
> 
> You don't hear any saw stop owners bitching about their table saw.


You got that right!!!:thumbsup:

Proud owner of...


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

I know the saw stop on Bosch's 12" mitre saw will burn out from 8 hrs a day 40 hour weeks cutting of MDF in about 4 months.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Now I remember, the part where
the guy who has a monopoly on 
the technology is lobbying to have
his monopoly codified.
I think that could take a minute.


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## Bergstrom (Mar 14, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Something I want you to think about Berg,,,,there is a psychological element to this, as well as many other factors. Owners of this device installed on their saws have a warm and fuzzy feeling of the the saw being safe, they become accustomed to having that security in the back of their mind that "It's not going to Mame them" if something should happen, and all is good- fine.
> 
> 
> You say you can "bypass" the stop,,,,,,,OK,,,,,, So what if, because you had a high content of moisture in the wood you "shut it off, bypass the system" and start cutting your wood and in the back of your mind,, that "device" is on,,,you slip up, you make a mistake at the wrong time and the wrong place,, and cut a finger off, or worse.
> ...


 

I don't have a long enough attention span to read all of that but I did skim through it and it seemed to mock the idea of turning off the device and then close by saying "GIVE US THE CHOICE" so I am a little confused on the logic

I wouldn't worry too much about pending litigation mandating the use of the technology because insurance companies will happily step up to the plate to persuade you to embrace it if the Fed can't get it done.


PS If you are ever looking for someones thumb in a dust collector bag house an 18v Dewalt flashlight is bright enough to make the the thumbnail glow red and it makes it easier to find.....I'm just sayin


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

Bergstrom said:


> The device will even tell you if the brake system would have activated during the previous cut in bypass mode. This can be used as a guide to determine if the material is non-conductive enough for brake use.


True, and about the "switch" just to clarify to others that don't know, You have a key to turn it on and off much like the keys to your car. To get it in by-pass mode you need to hold the key past the "on" position and once again, just like the start position on your car it has a spring back movement when you release the key.

The by-pass mode will only turn on when you hold the key in this position for about 20 - 30 seconds so it can't be turned off accidentally. It requires the operator to go through these steps in order to intentionally turn it off.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Jason W said:


> True, and about the "switch" just to clarify to others that don't know, You have a key to turn it on and off much like the keys to your car. To get it in by-pass mode you need to hold the key past the "on" position and once again, just like the start position on your car it has a spring back movement when you release the key.
> 
> The by-pass mode will only turn on when you hold the key in this position for about 20 - 30 seconds so it can't be turned off accidentally. It requires the operator to go through these steps in order to intentionally turn it off.



I don't believe the function, or quality of the saw is what's being called into question here. I believe it's more about guberment intrusion & less free market that's got Brian so worked up. I know it gets me worked up.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

pinwheel said:


> I don't believe the function, or quality of the saw is what's being called into question here. I believe it's more about guberment intrusion & less free market that's got Brian so worked up. I know it gets me worked up.


I understand that, just clearing that up since it was mentioned in this thread.

I really don't care to be told how to run my day to day life on the job site either. I do think that as an industry we typically do little to protect ourselves, our employees, and our clients from disasters until we're forced to. As a side affect we pay higher insurance rates. We all ***** about them and then the very next day we go out and use that table saw with no guard on it because we tossed it about a month after we bought it or the employee gets frustrated and makes it "disappear".

Admit it, wouldn't you LOVE to never see another guard on your table saw again?! Maybe this might have a silver lining...


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Berg,,,*

I guess by your comments,,, you don't understand me,, it's ok,, and I respect othere's for having and forming their own opinions,, great country we live in ,, isn't it but from an old man,,,,,that being me,,, to you 


Peace:clap:I give up:surrender:






 

Brian


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