# Questions on LASH Leveling clips on walls



## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

Hi ,was wandering if anybody has used the Lash leveling clips from Home depot on walls. I have used them on floor with a lot of success but was thinking if that anchor like bow in them would prevent them from wall installation due to no downward pressure on them. Have many wedges so I did not want to go to an alternative system. Thanks


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

I've used those QEP lash levelers on floors before and due to their design, that bow you mention, I would not use them on walls. In fact I won't use them anymore on floors either for that reason. They were too much of a struggle even for 12x12 floor tiles and appropriate trowel size.

I use RLS now, so much nicer to work with. Of course their are other systems that would work much better for you than those lash levelers, I just decided to go with RLS.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

They work fine on walls, but they kill your fingers. The bow on the bottom is for ungauged tiles, but on tiles of consistent thickness they are a royal pain in the ass. Buy the RLS and don't look back.


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## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

Heys guys, I just checked 2 of our local tile stores and they do not carry RLS system . Believe it or not they carry NO system . Do you buy them Online? thanks


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

Yes, I buy them online Contractors Direct
Even my local Daltile carries the starter kits but would typically have to order any bulk purchase.


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## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

Question? Looking into buying this system. Is it necessary to buy both the floor pliers and the wall pliers. Will the floor pliers work just as well for both ? I am not sure is just easier on wrist dont know . Did not want to spend 120 for 2 both pair 60 would be suffient for me. Thanks any info would help


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

I haven't even been using the pliers, keep telling myself I would get some but just never do. I would imagine it's got to be a little easier but I wouldn't call it a necessity either, I've gone through a lot of clips all just by hand. I think when I thought about it the most was the 5th day straight of laying floor tiles in a complete house, gotta admit my fingers were getting a little tired of it then. 

Yep, one of these days I might just get me some of those pliers.....


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

In my experience, the Lash system isn't worth using. I feel I can get a better result without them.

I use RLS and I do not use pliers for walls or floors.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

I have only used the RLS and they work very well. The tool isn't needed. I own one but it's just one more thing to have to grab. 

If you are capable of getting the tiles close, which you should be, it isn't that hard to tighten them up with just your hands IMO.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Lash system is garbage IMO. I'm heavily invested in the Tuscan system myself. If I were starting over I'd probably go RLS or Prodeso. There are definitely a lot more options that there were a few years ago.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

wow ive never used lash clips or any system. Cant wait to try these. 
Now I don't need to use floor leveler! haha jk


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

PrecisionFloors said:


> I'm heavily invested in the Tuscan system myself.


That's the key. Once you invest in the reusable part of a leveling system, you can't change to a different one without another chunk of change to buy the new reusable parts. 

Also good to make sure you can get the clips for your system when you need to refill. If you buy locally, make sure the supplier will continue to sell what you're using. Nothing worst than having 500 clips, wedges or tabs only to find you can't get the clips easily.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> That's the key. Once you invest in the reusable part of a leveling system, you can't change to a different one without another chunk of change to buy the new reusable parts.
> 
> Also good to make sure you can get the clips for your system when you need to refill. If you buy locally, make sure the supplier will continue to sell what you're using. Nothing worst than having 500 clips, wedges or tabs only to find you can't get the clips easily.


Does anyone around here have the RLS clips in stock? I've always ordered through contractors direct. When I get down to one bucket I order 2000 more. Seems to be the cheapest price I can find a well.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I have only used the RLS and they work very well. The tool isn't needed. I own one but it's just one more thing to have to grab.
> 
> If you are capable of getting the tiles close, which you should be, it isn't that hard to tighten them up with just your hands IMO.


I never got sucked into buying the tool. I just find a way to cinch by hand as well.

I get it tight and then just pull the clip towards the wedge and push the wedge into the clip. I rock it back and forth a bit until it's tight.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Does anyone around here have the RLS clips in stock? I've always ordered through contractors direct. When I get down to one bucket I order 2000 more. Seems to be the cheapest price I can find a well.


Nope. And for that matter, not many online retailers do either. A local source would be nice. I have had a few times I lost count on what I had in the bucket and ran out during a job. 

Not a huge ordeal but don't like being surprised and having to wait a week to replenish.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I never got sucked into buying the tool. I just find a way to cinch by hand as well.
> 
> I get it tight and then just pull the clip towards the wedge and push the wedge into the clip. I rock it back and forth a bit until it's tight.



I just figured it was needed. You and Angus spoke up after I bought it about not needed it.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I just figured it was needed. You and Angus spoke up after I bought it about not needed it.


I think I bought both. I broke about 25% of the clips using the pliers. By hand, I'll break 1 maybe every 100 sq ft or more.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Nope. And for that matter, not many online retailers do either. A local source would be nice. I have had a few times I lost count on what I had in the bucket and ran out during a job.
> 
> Not a huge ordeal but don't like being surprised and having to wait a week to replenish.


You could always call me.

I've spoken to Sherry at F&D as well as the VP of accessories and suggested many times they get RLS in stock. I'm not holding my breath.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I just figured it was needed. You and Angus spoke up after I bought it about not needed it.


He was the one that helped me not get sucked in.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You could always call me.
> 
> I've spoken to Sherry at F&D as well as the VP of accessories and suggested many times they get RLS in stock. I'm not holding my breath.


Don't get me started on F&D....

I think the issue is distributors need to be OK'd by Raimondi. Otherwise, F&D would need to buy from ContractorsDirect too. With their markup, they'd be too expensive.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Don't get me started on F&D....
> 
> I think the issue is distributors need to be OK'd by Raimondi. Otherwise, F&D would need to buy from ContractorsDirect too. With their markup, they'd be too expensive.


I'm moving away from their tile and going in house. Setting up with All Tile in Elk Grove. Picking up my sample boards next week. I'm done with Floor and Decorz tile. They discontinue everything. 

How's DalTile? Will they set me up with sample boards?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

You could ask. I've been trying to get them to support a non-biased showroom around us ever since they closed the Naperville store.

Was real close to having them set up a large showroom in EuroTech but, well...it's EuroTech.

If you want, I'll give you the contact number and you can ask. Although, since you don't shop there, not sure if they'd do it for free. 

IMO, Daltile routinely has the best quality tile for the price. You can get better but you're gonna pay for it. Plus their service has been the best for me too.

Example. Cust bought their own tile from FCA. They didn't order enough. I was 12 pieces short but also had 7 pieces broken in the packaging. The HO contacted FCA and they said too bad about the broken pieces; that's to be expected. Made HO order another case (20-25 pcs) and also took another few days to get.

That would never happen to me at Dal. I've had them short me items on an order and deliver directly to my house. They've routinely bent over backwards. They aren't perfect but they try to accommodate when an error occurs.

There are quite a few places in the Elk Grove area to get tile. I don't like to jump suppliers. Stick with one and get the best pricing. Dal in Elk Grove is massive compared to Burr Ridge and they stock a boat-load more.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> You could ask. I've been trying to get them to support a non-biased showroom around us ever since they closed the Naperville store.
> 
> Was real close to having them set up a large showroom in EuroTech but, well...it's EuroTech.
> 
> ...


I have an account setup up at All Tile, and they carry everything I need. My rep is pretty good. Maybe I'll stick with them for awhile and see how it goes. 

Thanks for the heads up.


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

my vote RLS, without tool also.

didn't care for the qep, hard on the fingers..


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

The RLS tool is worth having, push a few on with your fingers then go back and use the tool, you will get a few clicks out of it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> The RLS tool is worth having, push a few on with your fingers then go back and use the tool, you will get a few clicks out of it.


I have broken enough clips by hand to know that you don't need a tool to get the desired result.

For one, a few more clicks isn't a measure of a better installation. You only need the clip to cinch to the point in which the lippage is eliminated.

Second, If you need the tool to get a few extra clicks that actually makes a difference, then you don't know how to cinch them by hand.

Cinching by hand is far more productive. It just adds a few more steps and something else to maintain.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

If someone tried that with the pliers after I've set them by hand....they're only going to break every single clip from over tightening. I've broke enough just by hand, it's not like you have to give it everything you've got tightening by hand. 
Maybe when the arthritis in my hands gets worse I'll get around to getting the pliers.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I have broken enough clips by hand to know that you don't need a tool to get the desired result.
> 
> For one, a few more clicks isn't a measure of a better installation. You only need the clip to cinch to the point in which the lippage is eliminated.
> 
> ...


You break less because it holds the tab vertical.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> You break less because it holds the tab vertical.


I don't break enough to matter. Got anything else?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I don't break enough to matter. Got anything else?


Nothing champ...but I'll sell ya a pair of Raimondi pliers...


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Nothing champ...but I'll sell ya a pair of Raimondi pliers...


Nah, it's sounds like you need them. Especially with all the tile work you low voltage guys do.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Nah, it's sounds like you need them. Especially with all the tile work you low voltage guys do.


I'm like BC...I just collect tools.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

how much do these clips cost?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Lash system is garbage IMO. I'm heavily invested in the Tuscan system myself. If I were starting over I'd probably go RLS or Prodeso. There are definitely a lot more options that there were a few years ago.


Same situation here. I'm happy with the Tuscan, forget about the Lash.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

cedarboarder said:


> how much do these clips cost?


$194 for $2000 clips from ContractorsDirect.com, about $.10 a piece or $.40 per tile.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> $194 for $2000 clips from ContractorsDirect.com, about $.10 a piece or $.40 per tile.


The Tuscan are about 25¢ apiece. In the Tuscan system you also buy re-usable caps at about $1 apiece, plus pliers to install. So to get started in a small bathroom, you might buy 100 caps, 500 straps, and the pliers - $300-$350. The next bathroom, you would just buy some more straps, maybe $150.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I know you already have the lash system. 
Here is another vote to abandon it and start over.
I understand why the bowed bottom is good, to put pressure against the tiles and wedge. That is also what makes them a pain.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

CarpenterSFO said:


> The Tuscan are about 25¢ apiece. In the Tuscan system you also buy re-usable caps at about $1 apiece, plus pliers to install. So to get started in a small bathroom, you might buy 100 caps, 500 straps, and the pliers - $300-$350. The next bathroom, you would just buy some more straps, maybe $150.


I like under $.10 a piece to do the same thing, personally.

Tuscan is nearly three times as expensive and requires a tool.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I like under $.10 a piece to do the same thing, personally.
> 
> Tuscan is nearly three times as expensive and requires a tool.


Yeah buck a tile for some plastic that costs a penny. 

I saw on you tube that tuscan has some that dont need a tool. They have two peices that fold down. Dont look very sturdy tho.


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## Pheasant89 (Apr 1, 2011)

So it looks like to me is that if Lash would take the bow out of the clip it would be the same as RLS and a lot cheaper . Thats a shame


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

I dont like Pearl Jam or ketchup, but I do like the RLS tool...


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCrTkr5dp3Q


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## csv (Aug 18, 2009)

I used the LASH system on a couple small jobs, they worked but dang they are painful. I bought the rls system for a big basement job. 12x24 tiles throughout the whole basement. I really liked the system but in a few areas I had issues with the clips not breaking cleanly. Overall it made for a great install though


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

do you soak the rls system in water? like the other brand?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

cedarboarder said:


> do you soak the rls system in water? like the other brand?


Yes.


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## goneelkn (Jan 9, 2010)

Going to be doing my first install with RLS. How long do you soak the clips and/or the wedges for??
Contractor Direct said not to soak them at all. Raimondi's site doesn't say anything.
What does soaking them do??


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

goneelkn said:


> Going to be doing my first install with RLS. How long do you soak the clips and/or the wedges for??
> Contractor Direct said not to soak them at all. Raimondi's site doesn't say anything.
> What does soaking them do??


With TLS you soak the clips to make them more pliable so they don't break during installation. If RLS doesn't require soaking, don't soak them. I see no reason to soak the wedges.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I keep the clips in a 5 gal bucket filled with water and use a lid to transport. If you need to use them soon, warm water. 
Otherwise, just store in room temp water.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

HS345 said:


> With TLS you soak the clips to make them more pliable so they don't break during installation. If RLS doesn't require soaking, don't soak them. I see no reason to soak the wedges.


I like the wedges in water, not for soaking purposes but so that they are wet. Thin-set doesn't stick to them as easily.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Personally, I wouldn't want to be dribbling water all over my installation.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

HS345 said:


> Personally, I wouldn't want to be dribbling water all over my installation.


Just keep your mouth closed while you work.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

I have yet to soak my clips on a job. Done 3 jobs with them and on the last two jobs broke 1 clip on each job. Doesn't seem worth the time or hassle of soaking them.

Isn't the point just to keep them from breaking off while tightening?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I have yet to soak my clips on a job. Done 3 jobs with them and on the last two jobs broke 1 clip on each job. Doesn't seem worth the time or hassle of soaking them.
> 
> Isn't the point just to keep them from breaking off while tightening?


Yes, the point is to make them pliable so they don't snap during installation of the wedge. 

Like I said, I keep mine in a 5 gal bucket of water. Not only am I keeping them wet but also acts as a great storage container. Drop on a lid and it's all good.


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## goneelkn (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks for the responses everyone.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

angus242 said:


> Yes, the point is to make them pliable so they don't snap during installation of the wedge.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, I keep mine in a 5 gal bucket of water. Not only am I keeping them wet but also acts as a great storage container. Drop on a lid and it's all good.



So that's your normal storage? I guess I figured you'd be swapping from water to dry storage between jobs.

I still figure unless I start breaking them, I'm just fine not having them wet.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So that's your normal storage? I guess I figured you'd be swapping from water to dry storage between jobs


Why? I just keep them wet all the time until needed. No reason not to. My wedges are in a 5 gal bucket so I have a storage matching set.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Why? I just keep them wet all the time until needed. No reason not to. My wedges are in a 5 gal bucket so I have a storage matching set.


11 pounds per gallon...I'm not carrying around an extra 30lbs of water. Mine gets dumped between jobs. When I stage the next job I fill it up then.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

angus242 said:


> Why? I just keep them wet all the time until needed. No reason not to. My wedges are in a 5 gal bucket so I have a storage matching set.



So did you ever try with them not wet? I use the 1/8" clips and like I said, one broke in each shower the last two jobs and 0 on the floor at the last job.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So did you ever try with them not wet? I use the 1/8" clips and like I said, one broke in each shower the last two jobs and 0 on the floor at the last job.


Soaking the clips really does make a difference. But I use the TLS. It's the same reason though. The clips are a bit more pliable and reduces breakage.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So did you ever try with them not wet? I use the 1/8" clips and like I said, one broke in each shower the last two jobs and 0 on the floor at the last job.


There is also a difference between the 1/16" and 1/8" RLS clips. I've used the 1/8" on one job and they noticeably are harder to snap. Because I use the 1/16", I feel it's better to keep them soaked. The weight of the filled bucket has never occurred to me to be a deterrent to dry store them after every job.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

*Questions On LASH Leveling Clips On Walls*



angus242 said:


> There is also a difference between the 1/16" and 1/8" RLS clips. I've used the 1/8" on one job and they noticeably are harder to snap. Because I use the 1/16", I feel it's better to keep them soaked. The weight of the filled bucket has never occurred to me to be a deterrent to dry store them after every job.



I might try it if I keep having them break. But for one per job it hasn't felt worth it to soak them. The idea of keeping them in a bucket helps though. Wasn't wanting the time to keep transferring.

I don't mind carrying a bucket that weighs less than 50lbs a couple times every couple months. I carry way heavier crap more frequently than that.


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## goneelkn (Jan 9, 2010)

RLS made it so easy, I felt like I was cheating!! Great system.


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## csv (Aug 18, 2009)

angus242 said:


> There is also a difference between the 1/16" and 1/8" RLS clips. I've used the 1/8" on one job and they noticeably are harder to snap. Because I use the 1/16", I feel it's better to keep them soaked. The weight of the filled bucket has never occurred to me to be a deterrent to dry store them after every job.


The 1/8 are tough, that's for sure. I am switching to 1/16th because the I would rather deal with a few broken clips vs clips not breaking cleaning below the tile. Maybe it was user error, I don't know.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

csv said:


> The 1/8 are tough, that's for sure. I am switching to 1/16th because the I would rather deal with a few broken clips vs clips not breaking cleaning below the tile. Maybe it was user error, I don't know.


You are hitting them from the side to break, right?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

angus242 said:


> You are hitting them from the side to break, right?


No matter where you hit it you are still hitting a side...


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## csv (Aug 18, 2009)

Hahaha, yeah. But some, probably 20 out of 1000 used, didn't snap off clean. Probably missed some thinset in the grout lines while setting


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

csv said:


> Hahaha, yeah. But some, probably 20 out of 1000 used, didn't snap off clean. Probably missed some thinset in the grout lines while setting


If you have a blob of thinset on there they will break off high and you are left chipping it out with a putty knife.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> No matter where you hit it you are still hitting a side...


That's only in Canada.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> If you have a blob of thinset on there they will break off high and you are left chipping it out with a putty knife.


Just pull up with a pair of 8" or 9" linesman pliers. Comes right out. Just don't use the tile for leverage when prying. Just pull up.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

angus242 said:


> Just pull up with a pair of 8" or 9" linesman pliers. Comes right out. Just don't use the tile for leverage when prying. Just pull up.


Works every time :thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Just pull up with a pair of 8" or 9" linesman pliers. Comes right out. Just don't use the tile for leverage when prying. Just pull up.


I may even own a pair of those pliers!


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

Is it safe to break the clips off the next day? I always worry that the thinset hasn't cured enough yet.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> Is it safe to break the clips off the next day? I always worry that the thinset hasn't cured enough yet.


Absolutely. The thinset won't be cured but it will have dried enough to support foot traffic and break the clips. Unless you worked the previous night until 11pm. :laughing:


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

angus242 said:


> Absolutely. The thinset won't be cured but it will have dried enough to support foot traffic and break the clips. Unless you worked the previous night until 11pm. :laughing:



That's what my brother and I did last night tiles till 11 for a friend of his.

They started the job and gave up and asked us to do it. No RLS though.

First plank floor job.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

DIY rescue. My favorite!


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

I laid that whole bathroom. The friend and his Dad laid about 20 sq ft of a laundry room in 6 hours. 

They got the spacing on it pretty good. I think the guy at the tile shop forgot to tell them that the tiles are supposed to be flush with each other. Wasn't even close... One end joint is about 3/16" off. At least most of his part will be under washer/dryer. 

Let's just say one half of that room looks way better than the other.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

Isn't that 1/16th? or is it just my eyes?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> Is it safe to break the clips off the next day? I always worry that the thinset hasn't cured enough yet.


A good 10-12 hours and you can. Like Angus's said it won't be fully cured, but enough to let the clips fly.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

And they do (can) fly. I either take a towel to hit them towards or use my hand. I've had one clip fly about 15'. They can really take off.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

madmax718 said:


> Isn't that 1/16th? or is it just my eyes?



If you're asking me, my grout joint size was 1/8".

The 3/16 that I was referring to was lippage at the end of a tile laid by the homeowner.


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