# latex over varnish



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Hi all. Need some help here. We have existing stairs finished with either varnish or varathane. Need to paint the risers and stringers only with a latex.

My painter wants to use an oil base primer. Customer will not allow this due to fumes. So I need to know what primer to use over the varnish.

Painter will of course sand, ready for the primer.

Thanks in advance, Kato.


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## acetate198309 (Jan 26, 2010)

Dear Sir, I am sorrry i am a new one! I just learn from you.


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## GregC (Jan 24, 2010)

You can use a paint deglosser then you can use a Kilz 123 waterbase primer/sealer if you like.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

GregC said:


> You can use a paint deglosser then you can use a Kilz 123 waterbase primer/sealer if you like.




KIlz would be absolutly the LAST primer to use, it is crap. 
Use any bonding primer such as BM Fresh Start,Zinnser's bullseye 123, etc 

You did notice this painting advise about the Kilz came from a plumber, that should tell you something.


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

I was told a long time ago that; "shellac sticks to anything, and everything sticks to shellac". So I would use Bin primer (it's shellac). I'm willing to bet there are exceptions, but I think it would work in your situation.


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## GregC (Jan 24, 2010)

chris n said:


> KIlz would be absolutly the LAST primer to use, it is crap.
> Use any bonding primer such as BM Fresh Start,Zinnser's bullseye 123, etc
> 
> You did notice this painting advise about the Kilz came from a plumber, that should tell you something.


Sorry, My bad, if you see I did put _*"123" I forgot to type the word bullseye.*_ ..And yes this came from a plumber/pipe fitter & general contractor for over 30 yrs. I think I know a few things about painting and ..hmm..lets see, can I hang wall paper? Thats a tough one. :whistling
Tell me Chris can you fit or weld pipe? I doubt it, so stick to the tough job of paper hanging. :w00t:.. oh BTW Chris, there is a spell checker here


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## painterman (Feb 5, 2005)

sand to remove gloss...wipe clean...prime with ICI Gripper ...let the primer dry aleast 8 hrs...top coat with premium latex..good to go :thumbup:


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## alanbj (Feb 19, 2009)

try the odorless oil primer you'll get high but wont know what hit you


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Well if the customer doesn't want your painter to use oil base products cause of the smell I would not guaranty the latex will hold up long term, I would use Lacquer thinner wipe down the risers then use the deglosser then use a oil undercoater then your Latex, But I still would tell your customer that they could see the paint fail over time. Good luck.:thumbsup:


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## GregC (Jan 24, 2010)

_Frankawitz_, This is a very good advise. Try to convince your customer that the correct way should last longer. _Pay now or pay later._


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks for all the replys.

Talked to my painter today. He says he'll sand it down real good and use the shelac based primer. Should be ok.

Customer will not allow oil. I agree it would be the best, but it's her house.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

katoman said:


> Thanks for all the replys.
> 
> Talked to my painter today. He says he'll sand it down real good and use the shelac based primer. Should be ok.
> 
> Customer will not allow oil. I agree it would be the best, but it's her house.




Just wait till the customer gets a good whiff of the Bin,:w00t: the oil based primer would be perfume compared to that.


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah, Bin stinks to high heaven, don't use your prize brush either. Buy a sacrifice brush, or gallons of denatured alcohol.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

now for some reason i like the smell of shelacarty:


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## BMAN (Aug 21, 2006)

SW bonding primer would work fine in latex over scuffed surface. It sticks to glass!


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## alanbj (Feb 19, 2009)

I should of told you before to use stix(58$ per gal) but i forgot.
I tried it last year it does not come off anything in fact I still have some on my elbow. it smells odd and its pricey but it amazed me how well it stuck to pvc. oh and your bush will be a new duster as well.


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## Mattroffact (Jan 9, 2010)

*go with the latex*

I agree with the one comment, Kilz latex is garbage. I have had really good luck with bin 123 in the past. Also if the home owner is worried about fumes I'd stay away from anything shellac based. Also I find the shellac bin has a tendency to spray, a lot. So if you do use it make sure to overkill on masking off. Good luck man, its sounds like a fun job.


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## rstarre (Dec 19, 2008)

I used Kilz over water stains and the stain came coming back. I agree, kilz is crap.


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## chris n (Oct 14, 2003)

Mattroffact said:


> I agree with the one comment, Kilz latex is garbage. I have had really good luck with bin 123 in the past. Also if the home owner is worried about fumes I'd stay away from anything shellac based. Also I find the shellac bin has a tendency to spray, a lot. So if you do use it make sure to overkill on masking off. Good luck man, its sounds like a fun job.


Just to clarify Bin and 123 are 2 completly different primers.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

Greg as for getting the Customer to understand that would be up to you and how convincing you are. If you can explain to the customer then there should be no problem selling them on that product. You need to understand what the Customer wants Cheap price or Quality job? so if they are middle of the road put that facts on the table and leave the ball in their court. Don't make this dissension for them.


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## mikeybob (Feb 9, 2010)

*Surprised...*

Hi,
I'm new to the Forum and I'm surprised no one mentioned XIM UMA Primer. Sand and wipe then apply XIM UMA Primer, it sticks to anything even glass.
It's a latex product so it doesn't smell like Shellac primer or oil primer. Brush it on. 
Many years ago, we needed to paint a mirror in a restaurant so we primed it with this stuff and it's still there. 

There's my 2cents.

Mikeybob


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## MrPersnickety (May 14, 2007)

*What the customer wants*

It sounds like the customer doesn't want oil-based primer because of the smell / VOC. In which she is not going to like Bin Shellac or even 123 ( oh, that smell!). There is a bulls-eye odorless and while I cannot attest to its "stickyness", I can say that she would not know it was oil-based and therefore it might be acceptable to her. 
That said, any high quality latex primer, even a low VOC one, should stick once you have sanded and cleaned the surface - In my opinion.
Jared


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## Jer (Nov 13, 2008)

mikeybob said:


> Hi,
> I'm new to the Forum and I'm surprised no one mentioned XIM UMA Primer. Sand and wipe then apply XIM UMA Primer, it sticks to anything even glass.
> It's a latex product so it doesn't smell like Shellac primer or oil primer. Brush it on.
> Many years ago, we needed to paint a mirror in a restaurant so we primed it with this stuff and it's still there.
> ...


Just yesterday I called my daughter who used to work for KWAL'S to ask her what primer to use to paint an old formica counter top. She said XIM was very popular with KWAL customers.


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