# Roof Estimating And Drawing Program



## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Toot toot, haha.

Fact is, these programs turn anyone with a laptop into a "Contractor". Not sure that is a good idea for our industry. Kinda gets old cleaning up after chasers and their crumby work.


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## ssroofpros (Jan 22, 2011)

MJW said:


> Toot toot, haha.
> 
> Fact is, these programs turn anyone with a laptop into a "Contractor". Not sure that is a good idea for our industry. Kinda gets old cleaning up after chasers and their crumby work.


Toot, toot..? WTF?!

Who said anything about chasing storms? If you think a laptop and a program makes someone a contractor..Your nuts MJW!!
you better get the hang of these computer programs real fast because it won't be long before they're standard to the industry, and at that point your wright..prob not the best idea for your type in the industry..


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I used to use computer programs and all these other junk. Just all show. Then I got down to basics of thinking what people really want. They do not care about these things. They want to know how the roof is installed, the steps that it takes and so on and so fourth.

My proposal has a list of about 15 different things on it. Starting from the very first thing, laying down tarps and plywood to protect the property to the very last thing, final inspection and clean up. I go through each bullet point and check it off with the homeowner.

This seems to work much better then the fancy computer stuff I used to do.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

ssroofpros said:


> Toot, toot..? WTF?!
> 
> Who said anything about chasing storms? If you think a laptop and a program makes someone a contractor..Your nuts MJW!!
> you better get the hang of these computer programs real fast because it won't be long before they're standard to the industry, and at that point your wright..prob not the best idea for your type in the industry..


I've used a number of proposal programs including Xactimate. They are very easy to use.

There are plenty of pop up companies when a storm hits. Many are just a partial suit with a laptop sporting some fancy program that spits out a scope and price in the back seat on the portable printer. Then, they usually just sub it all out to cheap craigslist workers. Ya, we all know how it works.


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## ssroofpros (Jan 22, 2011)

MJW said:


> I've used a number of proposal programs including Xactimate. They are very easy to use.
> 
> There are plenty of pop up companies when a storm hits. Many are just a partial suit with a laptop sporting some fancy program that spits out a scope and price in the back seat on the portable printer. Then, they usually just sub it all out to cheap craigslist workers. Ya, we all know how it works.


Ohh.. Yeah your rite about that..there's a bunch of fly-by-nighters in this business, and yes they do everything they can to redirect the HO's attention by lookin as fancy as possible. Xactimate is very helpful for the fancy look, and helps the chasers provide estimates according to different markets pricing..accurately, by a simple download.
My apologies..I took your previous post personal..


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## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

There are BOTH types in this business. Some of us came from the sales side and some from the roofing side. Some on the sales side know more about spec work than any roofer could physically learn in a lifetime and some on the roofing side could say the same. The bottom line is it doesn't matter. Good business in general is trying to set yourself apart from every other clone in your industry. Show people why they should hire you and then ultimately deliver on what you promised. It doesn't make you less of a competant roofer if you don't swing a hammer or have pookie on your shoes. Most of my clients actually scoff at the check mark proposal because it makes each project look the same. That's just my opinion. We print out a scope for every single project we do that is project specific. Whether it's commercial or residential. We use Xactimate to negotiate insurance claims to set the price but our contracts are computer generated with a fully detailed scope, terms and conditions, all the necessary attachments, payment schedules, etc. Not every company is going to do it the same, but being different doesn't make you better or worse. Hell, 40 years ago guys just told people what they thought they could do it for and shook hands. We don't live in that world anymore. Professionalism sells whether you like it or not. There is a difference between a roofer and a contractor.


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## ssroofpros (Jan 22, 2011)

buildpinnacle said:


> There are BOTH types in this business. Some of us came from the sales side and some from the roofing side. Some on the sales side know more about spec work than any roofer could physically learn in a lifetime and some on the roofing side could say the same. The bottom line is it doesn't matter. Good business in general is trying to set yourself apart from every other clone in your industry. Show people why they should hire you and then ultimately deliver on what you promised. It doesn't make you less of a competant roofer if you don't swing a hammer or have pookie on your shoes. Most of my clients actually scoff at the check mark proposal because it makes each project look the same. That's just my opinion. We print out a scope for every single project we do that is project specific. Whether it's commercial or residential. We use Xactimate to negotiate insurance claims to set the price but our contracts are computer generated with a fully detailed scope, terms and conditions, all the necessary attachments, payment schedules, etc. Not every company is going to do it the same, but being different doesn't make you better or worse. Hell, 40 years ago guys just told people what they thought they could do it for and shook hands. We don't live in that world anymore. Professionalism sells whether you like it or not. There is a difference between a roofer and a contractor.


Love it! Couldn't agree more...but I see where the hammerers like MJ come from..Fact is we the contractors are who puts them to work..!? We utilize software to make our money which keeps us running!? We find the work, pay the bills, and continue to maintain the appropriate insurance/license necessary to operate..
Well spoken...


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

buildpinnacle said:


> There are BOTH types in this business. Some of us came from the sales side and some from the roofing side. Some on the sales side know more about spec work than any roofer could physically learn in a lifetime and some on the roofing side could say the same. The bottom line is it doesn't matter. Good business in general is trying to set yourself apart from every other clone in your industry. Show people why they should hire you and then ultimately deliver on what you promised. It doesn't make you less of a competant roofer if you don't swing a hammer or have pookie on your shoes. Most of my clients actually scoff at the check mark proposal because it makes each project look the same. That's just my opinion. We print out a scope for every single project we do that is project specific. Whether it's commercial or residential. We use Xactimate to negotiate insurance claims to set the price but our contracts are computer generated with a fully detailed scope, terms and conditions, all the necessary attachments, payment schedules, etc. Not every company is going to do it the same, but being different doesn't make you better or worse. Hell, 40 years ago guys just told people what they thought they could do it for and shook hands. We don't live in that world anymore. Professionalism sells whether you like it or not. There is a difference between a roofer and a contractor.


Yeah that is true. Mine however is unlike anyone else. I don't give out fully detailed scopes of work until after the contract is signed or they pay for the estimate. An installer turned salesmen will always know and understand more about the roof. They are two types of salesmen, ethical and unethical. The homeowner of the roof i sold yesterday was telling me that the previous guy told him he needs all new gutters in order to install ice and water shield. Since I understand how it is applied, and the specs of it, it made it quite an easy sale. I also got a compliment on my presentation packet as it in his words "much more professional than anyone else." Like I said, I used to do a printed out, detailed scope of work right from my truck. It took too long and people got impatient. Then, if they decided not to use me, they would have all that information to give to the next guy.



ssroofpros said:


> Love it! Couldn't agree more...but I see where the hammerers like MJ come from..Fact is we the contractors are who puts them to work..!? We utilize software to make our money which keeps us running!? We find the work, pay the bills, and continue to maintain the appropriate insurance/license necessary to operate..
> Well spoken...



I highly doubt MJW is a "hammerer". There are roofers and there are nailers. Problem with this software is that it takes no knowledge of the industry whatsoever in order to operate it. I am sure I could have my fiance up and running out xactimate estimates tomorrow. The software I use it all behind the scenes. My costs are all stored in my head (and the computer). The most successful companies in my area do not run any of this software because they UNDERSTAND the business. By the way, doing work for Xactimates prices is nothing to be happy about.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

We put our own company to work. We don't work for other Contractors. They ask, but why work under someone for less. Never understood the cheap subs. Is it that hard to get the job AND do the job? I'm sure your location dictates a lot of how you run your business. 
It's easier to sell when you can show someone in your own hands how to do something rather than just saying "the guys will get er done right quick". I've installed J channel around windows, flashed skylights, trimmed interiors, etc... in front of the pickiest of homeowners. This is after telling them I can do the job. The next step is showing them. That makes you a Contractor, IMO.


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## ssroofpros (Jan 22, 2011)

MJW said:


> We put our own company to work. We don't work for other Contractors. They ask, but why work under someone for less. Never understood the cheap subs. Is it that hard to get the job AND do the job? I'm sure your location dictates a lot of how you run your business.
> It's easier to sell when you can show someone in your own hands how to do something rather than just saying "the guys will get er done right quick". I've installed J channel around windows, flashed skylights, trimmed interiors, etc... in front of the pickiest of homeowners. This is after telling them I can do the job. The next step is showing them. That makes you a Contractor, IMO.


I've done and do roofing..I've spent a few years of my life as a laborer to earn my officer position in my families business. I'm now VP at 23 and damn proud! I respect the trade work, as I've sweat just as you have..I'm sure you have more time in the business, but we gotta start somewhere rite..? My approach to this thread was to emphasize on contractor business productivity..software, or "own-ware" is very helpful when running a business in a competitive market.
Basically what I'm sayin is that not all contractors run around clueless as to what their trade is..most have the knowledge (if not WAY more) of the installers..BUT they almost always have overwhelming business skills compared to the installer..
Way to go though MJW..I'm happy to see the hard work is coming from MJW on both sides of the coin..! Just don't call out us contractors as a whole..odds are we've kept your food on the table at some point and time (no disrespect).? And if that's not true, I know we've done so for many MANY others (again no disrespect)..
Take care sir..best of luck with your new year!


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

ssroofpros said:


> Just don't call out us contractors as a whole..odds are we've kept your food on the table at some point and time (no disrespect).? And if that's not true, I know we've done so for many MANY others (again no disrespect)..


I remember when I was a VP at 23 also. Not sure why your ego is so big though. You are young and already done working for a living? :no: That makes a person proud?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

MJW said:


> I remember when I was a VP at 23 also. Not sure why your ego is so big though. You are young and already done working for a living? :no: That makes a person proud?


Yeah I was basically the same thing at 21. At 23 I started my own company and so far, so well.

I will say it again, computer software does help. Just not sure how much HO really care of how technologically advanced you are (and I am pretty advanced).

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that they chose me because of my software. Usually I hear that my company was chosen because I was the most trusted.


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## ssroofpros (Jan 22, 2011)

MJW said:


> I remember when I was a VP at 23 also. Not sure why your ego is so big though. You are young and already done working for a living? :no: That makes a person proud?


I work for a living, and don't think I'll ever be done..? I'm proud sir..very proud!


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