# Dimmer switch question



## MwCar (Jun 2, 2008)

Real dumb one for you but havne't run into it yet so heres the question,

Replacing standard toggle switch with dimmmer to control 1 hallway light.

Opened up switch box and it's a switch loop but only 1 black,white and ground, obviuosly all connected to the switch.

It it ok to hook my dimmer up this?
If so do I need to derate or leave as is with out snapping anything off the dimmer


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## acrwc10 (Dec 10, 2006)

MwCar said:


> Real dumb one for you but havne't run into it yet so heres the question,
> 
> Replacing standard toggle switch with dimmmer to control 1 hallway light.
> 
> ...


Yes you are fine, Just turn off the power first. The white wire should be the line and the black the load in this type of install. The white wire should have been re-identified to anything other then white or green.


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

acrwc10 said:


> Yes you are fine, Just turn off the power first. The white wire should be the line and the black the load in this type of install. The white wire should have been re-identified to anything other then white or green.


I would say only about 2% of whites in this situation or re identified, and it's would only be in recently built homes if it was.....


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## MwCar (Jun 2, 2008)

I opened up the light fixture and obviosly thers more wires in there,,it's a older home so it could be feeding more lights and or even recepticles,,so the feed is in the light fixture and just the switch leg dumps into the switch box,,so I'm good to go with the dimmer? Leave tabs in place on dimmer?Just wire it as it's wired now but to dimmer?


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## precisionbuild (Nov 17, 2008)

MwCar said:


> I opened up the light fixture and obviosly thers more wires in there,,it's a older home so it could be feeding more lights and or even recepticles,,so the feed is in the light fixture and just the switch leg dumps into the switch box,,so I'm good to go with the dimmer? Leave tabs in place on dimmer?Just wire it as it's wired now but to dimmer?



That's where the feed had to come from in your scenario (the light). Yes just wire it up like it was. That is a very standard configuration. And it doesn't matter what else it could be feeding off from the light. Don't mess with any of the wiring at the light though.


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## precisionbuild (Nov 17, 2008)

Also, I forgot to add--->

Don't take this wrong, but this switch is about all I would attempt at electrical if I was you. I am not trying to offend you, but anything more could be dangerous.

And wrap a black piece of tape around the white to identify it as your line.


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

precisionbuild said:


> Also, I forgot to add--->
> 
> Don't take this wrong, but this switch is about all I would attempt at electrical if I was you. I am not trying to offend you, but anything more could be dangerous.
> 
> And wrap a black piece of tape around the white to identify it as your line.


I wouldn't bother with the black tape....just makes it messier.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I usually use red or blue tape for identifying long runs, like in a panel. But for a switch loop in a switch box a sharpie will do.


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## precisionbuild (Nov 17, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> I wouldn't bother with the black tape....just makes it messier.


 I was hoping by telling him to, that he would THINK about the difference as he was doing it and then in the end maybe learn something. 

Alot of these guys have just seen scenarios and then think they can wire something up. They have no idea of HOW electric "works". 

Knowing that black goes to a "gold" colored screw and white goes to a "silver" colored screw is not being able to wire. 

I agree with you, but I was just trying to make him actually think about "line" and "load" as he doing it. Not that tape or a sharpie makes the system work better.

I don't think I explained this well, but too many people think they can do things, and electricity is dangerous.


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## Hidyusbeast (Dec 21, 2008)

precisionbuild said:


> I was hoping by telling him to, that he would THINK about the difference as he was doing it and then in the end maybe learn something.
> 
> Alot of these guys have just seen scenarios and then think they can wire something up. They have no idea of HOW electric "works".
> 
> ...


That is so true , and unfortunately even some people who work for electrical contractors don't know too much more than that. Imo you need at least a basic understanding of how electricity works ,along with a decent knowledge of all applicable codes to make your installation safe and legal.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

It is should be standard for all electricians to mark white wires being used for hot with black tape or a black marker. Being "messy" is a cop out- Being Safe is good practice ! I couldn't imagine it not being followed in a plant with thousands of wires. It was "code" among all the electricians at the plant I worked at, and should be everywhere!


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Re-identifying a grounded conductor as an ungrounded conductor does not help a qualified electrician.


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## walkerj (May 14, 2007)

Celtic said:


> Re-identifying a grounded conductor as an ungrounded conductor does not help a qualified electrician.


Thank you Celtic:clap:


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Celtic said:


> Re-identifying a grounded conductor as an ungrounded conductor does not help a qualified electrician.


 Where did this come from??? "grounded or ungrounded"???? This has nothing to do with it. We are indentifing a white wire being used as Hot wire for all of us "qualified & non-qualified electricians" Safety First for All !! It also makes it easier troubleshooting when wringing out wires..........for all of us. You know!


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

MwCar said:


> Real dumb one for you but havne't run into it yet so heres the question,
> 
> Replacing standard toggle switch with dimmmer to control 1 hallway light.
> 
> ...


Maybe. It depends on the load. Some motion detectors and dimmers require the presence of neutral for consistent power to the device itself.

A standard toggle switch will control everything. A "common" dimmer will only control a regular filament bulb, CFLs/fluorescent fixtures specifically designed to be used with the common dimmer. Anything else requires a purpose-built dimmer.


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

mrmike said:


> Where did this come from??? "grounded or ungrounded"???? This has nothing to do with it. We are indentifing a white wire being used as Hot wire for all of us "qualified & non-qualified electricians" Safety First for All !! It also makes it easier troubleshooting when wringing out wires..........for all of us. You know!


It makes no difference, if you can't figure it out you should not be in there....it's not like a grounded conductor can't ruin your day. IMO if it takes you longer than 1.5 seconds to figure out what is going on in a switch box your not an electrician yet, your a helper or a handyhackman or a home owner.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> It makes no difference, if you can't figure it out you should not be in there....it's not like a grounded conductor can't ruin your day. IMO if it takes you longer than 1.5 seconds to figure out what is going on in a switch box your not an electrician yet, your a helper or a handyhackman or a home owner.


You are the one that should not be in there if you don't want to follow a simple "rule of thumb" that helps us all. I think you should Listen Twice & talk less & think about it before you think you know it all! By your statements you have a long ways to go to being a good Electrician-------Labeling yourself as such doesn't mean a thing- I was studying electricity before you were even born & don't ever think you know it all! You would never make it in an Industrial plant with that attitude-you would get someone killed..........Little things make a Big Difference !


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

Just cause your old does not make you good either, I say take your "rule of thumb", and go stick it. I went years and years using the white wire as an ungrounded conductor in switch plugs, two wire three ways, and switch loops to fixtures, I think being forced to re identify them is pandering to idiots, no offence.


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## DPDT (Apr 14, 2008)

*uhm....*



Bkessler said:


> I think being forced to re identify them is pandering to idiots, no offence.


 So basically you just called us all idiots for following code? Sorry dude. Hope you never end up in a motor control center. You could blow stuff up fast if the guy ahead of you didn't re-ID. Uhm....no offense.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

DPDT said:


> So basically you just called us all idiots for following code? Sorry dude. Hope you never end up in a motor control center. You could blow stuff up fast if the guy ahead of you didn't re-ID. Uhm....no offense.


Now why on earth would you be using a white wire as an ungrounded conductor in an MCC :blink:


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

DPDT said:


> So basically you just called us all idiots for following code? Sorry dude. Hope you never end up in a motor control center. You could blow stuff up fast if the guy ahead of you didn't re-ID. Uhm....no offense.


Sorry "dude" I was implying residential, I've done my share of MCC cabinets and I have not seen 12-2 romex in any MCC cabinets I've wired.

But if there was and the motor's were 240, It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on....I am sure every year millions of lives are saved and injuries prevented from taping the white wire on a 14-3 romex in hallways. But I'll mark mine pink for you from now on.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

So if marking a wire that is used as a feed "line" instead of a neutral is unnecessary then why bother color coding any wires? I suppose everyone should have the ability to memorize a junction box loaded with wires or several for that matter while performing diag and know that someone in the past used a circuit for a line instead of what would commonly be used for a neutral without it being marked in some sort of way. Maybe i am just an incompetent moron since i am not licensed and my marking of such circuits is foolish. Maybe this is how those who get lazy with testing ALL wires and not marking feeds "line" end up getting numbed or worse, dead.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

woodchuck2 said:


> So if marking a wire that is used as a feed "line" instead of a neutral is unnecessary then why bother color coding any wires?


Good point...maybe write a proposal for the 2013 edition.



woodchuck2 said:


> I suppose everyone should have the ability to memorize a junction box loaded with wires or several for that matter while performing diag and know that someone in the past used a circuit for a line instead of what would commonly be used for a neutral without it being marked in some sort of way.


So you implicitly trust the "markings" left by "someone else"? 

No testers needed..it was re-id'ed as an ungrounded conductor so therefore it is 




woodchuck2 said:


> Maybe i am just an incompetent moron since i am not licensed and my marking of such circuits is foolish. Maybe this is how those who get lazy with testing ALL wires and not marking feeds "line" end up getting numbed or worse, dead.


Maybe...

:laughing:

BTW, there is no requirement to mark a wire in a JB as a "feed".


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Celtic said:


> Good point...maybe write a proposal for the 2013 edition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I am not saying it is code or required nor do i trust someone elses markings but if a wire is marked then it makes it easier to "remember" what went where. If you have a JB with 5-6 circuits and you disconnect them all for any reason how are you going to remember what wires were neutrals and what were feeds? Are you going to wring out every circuit as you reconnect them or mark the one "odd" colored feed to save time and confusion?


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

Celtic said:


> So you implicitly trust the "markings" left by "someone else"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


exactly, all tap does is muss things up, I do like Magnettica way of marking with a sharpie but as a requirement, not so much


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

woodchuck2 said:


> I am not saying it is code or required nor do i trust someone elses markings but if a wire is marked then it makes it easier to "remember" what went where. If you have a JB with 5-6 circuits and you disconnect them all for any reason how are you going to remember what wires were neutrals and what were feeds? Are you going to wring out every circuit as you reconnect them or mark the one "odd" colored feed to save time and confusion?


I do it all the time, must me the ginko boloba I've been taking. I have my own marking system for taking wires apart.


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

woodchuck2 said:


> I am not saying it is code or required nor do i trust someone elses markings but if a wire is marked then it makes it easier to "remember" what went where. If you have a JB with 5-6 circuits and you disconnect them all for any reason how are you going to remember what wires were neutrals and what were feeds? Are you going to wring out every circuit as you reconnect them or mark the one "odd" colored feed to save time and confusion?


Why would I be back at a box I just wired?

I have a system I use that is almost idiot proof...line on top; load on bottom.


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## acrwc10 (Dec 10, 2006)

Celtic said:


> Why would I be back at a box I just wired?
> 
> I have a system I use that is almost idiot proof...line on top; load on bottom.


ALMOST you say? Are you lookin to hire someone to test that out fer ya ?


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## Hidyusbeast (Dec 21, 2008)

Bkessler said:


> I do it all the time, must me the ginko boloba I've been taking. I have my own marking system for taking wires apart.


o really, lol what brand ginko biloba do you use? Ive heard if you use one that is too strong it can cause bleeding in your brain.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I prefer to strip the insulation off the line side of a GFCI circuit during the rough so when I come back to finish I know which is line and which is load. 

Pretty simple actually.


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## Bkessler (Oct 8, 2005)

Magnettica said:


> I prefer to strip the insulation off the line side of a GFCI circuit during the rough so when I come back to finish I know which is line and which is load.
> 
> Pretty simple actually.


You got it, I bet you crimp switch legs too.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Bkessler said:


> You got it, I bet you crimp switch legs too.


I sure do. I'm always surprised when people don't do that. How the hell are you supposed to remember which is which? In 4 gang boxes etc, I'll make multiple notches to coincide with either the switch leg, feed, or both for clarity. And I always like to leave my wires nice and long. Nothing pisses me off more than having to open up a finished switch box to reverse a set of travelers. There's no excuse for that sort of thing. I can't wait to go into business for myself so I can fire someone for that because it happened to me. Just kidding. :laughing:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

Magnettica said:


> I prefer to strip the insulation off the line side of a GFCI circuit during the rough so when I come back to finish I know which is line and which is load.
> 
> Pretty simple actually.


Another simple act is to use a continuity tester on the trim....the neutral will ring to ground [provided you have made up the panel]


I do not notch/crimp my switch legs....I may leave a little loop in the feed, twist the feed & switch leg together to keep them "together" until trim time.....or...
Line on top...loads on bottom ~ entering the box where the switch is *supposed* to go .


I am a big fan of leaving the wires long on trim.:thumbup:


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

acrwc10 said:


> ALMOST you say? Are you lookin to hire someone to test that out fer ya ?
> View attachment 14136



Hiring that fellow would only serve to hone my firing skills :laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

Bkessler said:


> I think being forced to re identify them is pandering to idiots, no offence.


:whistlingIt's offense.....idiot arty:


:clap:


BTW, sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't.:jester:


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