# Drywallers' Pet Peeve?



## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

I like the fact that sheet rockers gripe all the time. Now that carpenters have to make the wall near perfect for wussrockers. We get more money and the rocklers get less. Keep up the good work before you know Carps well be rocking to LOL. I mean it is not really or nearly as complicated a framing or general carpentry. DUh Put a board up george and mud it. Oh gezz lets sub that out. No game from me. All in house. 

And one more thing clean up you mud dropping off the floor. I back charge if my laborer has to scrap. Like I said keep up the good work. We appreciate it.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

As an electrician, I fully expect that 3 or 4 boxes in each home will be buried. I've been dealing with this for years. I mark the floor with upside-down marking paint at each device location to remind myself later and possibly the drywallers as they work. I don't get too worked up over a few boxes, but when it's more than 3 or 4 it gets excessive in my opinion. I know that when the boards go up, you really get flying, so I understand how this happens. I think that the GC's are a little used to patching a little hole or two where we poked through a few inches to one side or another searching for a buried box. It's just one of those things. 

I do get a little excited when a box is almost fully filled with mud. There's no excuse for that, in my opinion. I understand that sometimes you have to clean a little drag off the knife, but why not do it on the edge of a closet door frame or something? I'm a little puzzled why sometimes there's a box with a full knife load of mud in it?


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## WDA (Apr 8, 2005)

boogie said:


> secondly learn to use the roto tool those thing eat wires for lunch


When I was hangin rock, we mashed the wires into the Box with the butts the DW Hammers. Electriciains didn't always like it much, though. Sure beats having 1" of usable wire in the box.

Haven't had a burned wire and pissed of electrician in ages. If I'm not hanging on my remodel jobs, I'll go through before the DWrs and mash em in...it's still kind of fun. Why I don't know????

WDA


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## rocker7969 (Apr 10, 2005)

I don't think that any of the framers I'm hanging behind know what a string line is good for, what the crown is on the studs, what a plumb bob is, or even know the numbers 3,4, and 5. Hanging lids when there isn't even one square corner to come off of is just a pain. Once a wall is framed, all you gotta do is take a step back and look, and most guys in the trade can see if something isn't right. fix it, don't let it go, and then I gotta fix it for the rock to look right.


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## imahanger (Mar 31, 2005)

JustaFramer said:


> I like the fact that sheet rockers gripe all the time. Now that carpenters have to make the wall near perfect for wussrockers. We get more money and the rocklers get less. Keep up the good work before you know Carps well be rocking to LOL. I mean it is not really or nearly as complicated a framing or general carpentry. DUh Put a board up george and mud it. Oh gezz lets sub that out. No game from me. All in house.
> 
> And one more thing clean up you mud dropping off the floor. I back charge if my laborer has to scrap. Like I said keep up the good work. We appreciate it.


I wish all framers would try their hand at hanging. 

there are some framers that i follow and i have to do nothing to hang the job and others that shouldnt frame a outhouse.

if the rockers are griping at you makes me wonder which one you are DUH


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

All I can say is : Is it too much to expect a tradesman to perform to industry standards at his trade? 

Let's face it everything hinges on the framing, each trades small mistakes snowball upon each other and it all starts with a good framing job for everybody else to start with.

I guess unless a framer, a drywaller, an electrician, a plumber, or a painter had naked pictures of me to blackmail me with, if they weren't doing work to industry standards I would be looking to replace them with the next guy that could as soon as it was feasable to do.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Well first off it starts with the lumber. Crap is crap you hand me a pile od ******************** and say frame up a house with it. You get crap. Period. I don't give crap how square the house is. Between the crappy lumber and shotty truss company. Youget get and house that is structrally sound after I put all the hardware on. It seems that every year I put about a hour more work into a house just for metal. You know that I am not paid to plain in that metal strap. Well unless I would work for a company like Horton. LOL That your job finisher. 

So quit crying.


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## Mike772 (May 16, 2005)

First off, I'd like to say hello - first post.

I build homes the old fashoned way, I'm the: framer, roofer, insulator, drywaller, taper, painter, siding/sofit/facia guy, cabinet/trim installer, you get the idea.

I will agree that the lumber quallity is going south, but that is no excuse for shotty work of going too fast. There are places to burn up bad lumber and places where nothing but pool cues are accepted. What ever happened to sighting every single piece of wood? Any one of my guys grabs a stud or anything with out sighting it first is in hot water with me. Sight plates and studs when laying out the wall, then the important things (corners, door/window studs, cabinet wall studs, etc) get sighted again while getting nailed in, just to make sure. 

Immediately after the electricians are out, we go around with black permanant markers and mark every stud on the floor with a line at the center of the stud. We also mark the center of every outlet with a solid line centered on it followed by another short line and a circle around them both (the outlet symbol). When we get to drywalling, we know where every stud and box are. That way no boxes get missed/covered up. The electricians are very greatful, I hear about it on every job. When hanging rock, the bottom screw goes exactly on the stud line, so in the event that some flooring other than carpet is installed, I know where the studs are at a quick glance when trimming. Where there's carpet, it's a no brainer where the studs are for nailing on trim.


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## rocker7969 (Apr 10, 2005)

I will agree also about the crappy lumber nowadays.. but still, when the guys framing a house can't frame a kick out window right, or a cathredral celing w/ a couple angles in it. and the dumb rocker (being me) can make it look right w/ the lumber just left around the job, that don't say much for the quality of the framing.. but, quickness is what gets the jobs now, not quality for the most part anyway...


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## Mike772 (May 16, 2005)

*Pet Peeve*

This one falls in the category of subs not respecting other subs.

About 10 years ago, I was finishing up on the taping of the inside of this house. Some cross-eyed siding crew was using waffle-faced hammers banging on the house like gorillas. Now, that wasn't necessary, the siding was vinyl, and they weren't resetting sheeting nails either. I think they were just f'ing around. Anyways, just about every screw popped on the walls they were working on. Luckily, the walls were not textrued yet, but it did cost me extra time fixing all the pops.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Mike772 said:


> ...just about every screw popped on the walls they were working on.


Forgive my ignorance, but a "screw pop"? Never heard of such a thing. Nail pops, yes. Screw pops, no. Does this happen very often? I can't even picture what it would take to do this.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

I think Mike is referring to the mud "popping" out of all the screw holes....not the actual screws coming out. 

And with a screw every foot, 4 studs (assuming vertical) wide, 8 ft high....36 per board, maybe more along top and bottom plates, so say possibility of 40 per board, at LEAST. A whole house...or even a whole room of this can add up the time pretty quickly.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

"screw pops" are caused by the sheet rock not being properly fastened to the wall. Rock not tight to the studs will at some piont in time will cause "screw pops". Fixed plenty of these on new houses.


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## Rusty Nails (Apr 3, 2005)

Mike772 said:


> This one falls in the category of subs not respecting other subs.
> 
> About 10 years ago, I was finishing up on the taping of the inside of this house. Some cross-eyed siding crew was using waffle-faced hammers banging on the house like gorillas. Now, that wasn't necessary, the siding was vinyl, and they weren't resetting sheeting nails either. I think they were just f'ing around. Anyways, just about every screw popped on the walls they were working on. Luckily, the walls were not textrued yet, but it did cost me extra time fixing all the pops.


Most tapers won't go in front of the siding crew. It's not as bad as it used to be with nail guns though.


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## Mike772 (May 16, 2005)

JP, you're exactly correct. The mud was being knocked off the screws giving it the appearance of a "pop" when in fact the screw was still seated and the drywall still tight. 

Rusty Nail, you are correct too about siding before taping. But this job got to be bassackwards. Back then, I just did what I was told and I was told to tape. It still isn't any excuse for the siding crew to wale on the walls the way they did.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Justa, I hadn't thought about that kind of "pop". You mean where the screw stays put but the board "pops" off of it (becomes loose...almost as if the screw were put in too far to begin with), right? I guess it's something to keep in mind if you're coming in behind siders, whether you've mudded or not.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

I don't know exactly how it happens. However I was getting a house ready for the new home owners and several screw popped in one area. The house sat for a few months so settling could of caused it. I thought they were nails after I smacked them with the hammer. But thought lets dig one out low and behold it was a screw. I think that at one piont the screws seemed like they were set properly.

As for the siders before the rockers it would never happen around here. Roofers and siders come in right after the framers and dry in the house.


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## imjasper (Jun 4, 2005)

JustaFramer said:


> "screw pops" are caused by the sheet rock not being properly fastened to the wall. Rock not tight to the studs will at some piont in time will cause "screw pops". Fixed plenty of these on new houses.


You might also know that when drywall gets hung over warped or twisted walls, sometimes you have to float the board so that it doesn't pucker in.
This is a terrible way of alleviating the problem but we don't get paid by the hour.


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## imjasper (Jun 4, 2005)

Personally I think that if the GC is worth his salt, he uses quality tradepersons to begin with, they won't allow the use of really cheap lumber so as to alleviate all of the above mentioned problems.
As a Drywall contractor, I let it be known up front that I will walk in the door, find all problems and then notify the GC that I will return when they are fixed. I don't get paid to frame and fix. If they insist on me hanging anyway, then they have to sign a waiver that absolves me from my normal warranty. I refuse to make Shoddy framing look good. The only one that benefits is the crappy framer.

P.S. I am a liscensed contractor and I am a quality carpenter, (rough and Finish). I know what causes drywall to look crappy. If the GC is on their game, they don't allow one trade to interfere with the next, after all, it only reflects on them right??? When the house is complete the GC is the fall guy as it should be. It's their responsibility to ensure proper workmanship. If they don't care, why should I. Looks Great from MY house. LOL


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## Floorwizard (Sep 24, 2003)

> I don't get paid to frame and fix. If they insist on me hanging anyway, then they have to sign a waiver that absolves me from my normal warranty.


The problem with that is a Judge will consider you to be a pro. And if you install over it, you take responsibility for it.
They expect you to not do any work unless you warranty it.

Sounds like a good idea, but when it comes down to brass tax, the waiver will do you no good. Unless they do not take you to court.

Best to just keep on walkin.....


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