# Upgrading Main Panel



## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

The house I am in the midst of possibly buying has an on style panel with fuses. One of the first things to be done when/if we buy it will be to have the panel upgraded. So, I had a few questions:

It is in all likelihood a 60A panel (it doesn't look like their are enough fuses to be a 100A panel) - how much more should I expect to pay to upgrade to a 200A service as opposed to a 100A service - with breakers, of course? How much more is involved in getting an electrician to do this work i.e. do they have to run more/heavier duty wire from the main service? Will I have to or should I expect to have to pay more for the permit to allow this to be done? I asked about the 200A service because I want to run large enough service to the garage (or should I say my "work shop") - I'd like to have a separate panel in the garage/shop with around 60A dedicated to it - unless someone recommends I use something other than a 60A panel - more? less?

Also, the house has a pool heater and AC so I'm pretty sure there is no room for expansion in the existing panel for adding my workshop.

Are there any other things I should be on the lookout in relation to the electrical before I consider final sign-off on buying this house?

I realize it's impossible for anyone here to give me specific answers without seeing the existing panel, etc. I'd just like to have as much information before the purchase as possible. If we do buy the house, I will be getting a licensed electrician to take care of everything for me - I just want to have the right questions for him or her when the time comes.

Thanks in advance.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

The price to upgrade to a 200 amp service will be the same, regardless of whether the existing service is 30, 60, or 100 amps. 

A service change involves replacing the cable or conduit and conductors from the weatherhead to the meter, the meter can itself, the cable or conduit and conductors from the meter to the panel, and the panel. The existing branch circuits will be reconnected in the panel. If a weatherproof disconnect is required outdoors by the meter for any reason, that adds a few hundred more to the price. 

You may well have a 100 amp service, particularly since you said you have AC. There are zillions of 100 amp fuse panels still in use that have two pullout fuse blocks, and 4 edison base screw in fuse sockets. 

Anything else to look out for? Well, just realize that your home probably met code when the place was built, but a home inspector could fill up a sheet in short order with action items that don't meet today's code. Kitchens were sorely underpowered until recent years, so the kitchen should be #1 on the list to rewire (or remodel). Adding GFCI's to the kitchen and bath recs should be done at a minimum, if you do nothing else. If you see any signs of DIY wiring, or (gasp) DIY rewiring, do a little investigating. DIY wiring is generally many times more hazardous than old wiring, in my experience.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Thanks md. That's exactly the type of info I was looking for. The house we're bidding on is a bungalow with a walkout basement and a 36' x 17' pool and is a power of sale. Our offer price is taking into account the number of things I/we are going to have to get done. We've already got the bank to lower their price by $20,000 but they still have a way to go to get to our price. I'm already assuming the pool heater and liner are shot and need replacing and that the AC probably doesn't work. Funny you mention the kitchen. After getting the electrical upgraded, the kitchen is the first to get gutted and replaced and the bathrooms are second.

Most of the work required is doable by me. My GF's brother-in-law is a plumber so all of that work will only cost me materials and I can do all the carpentry and other work myself. When it comes to the electrical, I won't be touching anything other than replacing receptacles, switches and light fixtures - I won't go near the panel or the wiring!

Is a 60A subpanel a good size for my shop? My main tools being run in there are my table saw, heater, dust collector, mitre saw, compressor and corded power tools - not all at once, of course. My current garage/shop has split 15A breakers and I am sick and tired of running a power cord into the house just so I can run the dust collector, heater and table saw at the same time.


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## gravtyklz (Dec 24, 2005)

Cost wise it seems that a 100A service to your garage would be the best choice....incase you ever decide to do anything else. The biggest expense is going to be wire to get there, the 60A, or 100A breaker, and your 60A or 100A panel in your garage. But theres not much of a price difference between the two of them.

It depends on the size of your heater....some heaters draw 20A or better. But I think 60A would be plenty. But if it was my investment.....I would do 100A. One day your workshop may be a shop used by many at once?


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

gravtyklz said:


> Cost wise it seems that a 100A service to your garage would be the best choice....incase you ever decide to do anything else. The biggest expense is going to be wire to get there, the 60A, or 100A breaker, and your 60A or 100A panel in your garage. But theres not much of a price difference between the two of them.
> 
> It depends on the size of your heater....some heaters draw 20A or better. But I think 60A would be plenty. But if it was my investment.....I would do 100A. One day your workshop may be a shop used by many at once?


I appreciate the advice. The garage is only a single car garage but I'm taking the entire thing over - a condition I've already cleared with my "boss". The heater I have is just a small 1500W overhead one that draws about 14A (runs fine in my current garage) but I have to turn it off to run anything else. Honestly it isn't going to be big enough for anyone but me to use at one time nor do I want anyone getting in my way either. I wasn't thinking of the whole idea as a long term investment either as we'll likely sell the place after a couple of years. I just thought of doing the seperate service to the garage at the same time as the main panel to save time and money.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Gravity is right, in that the cost difference between a 60 and 100 amp subfeed to the garage is negligible. You might consider not only the equipment that might be installed in the garage, but consider also if the garage is a more suitable "jumping off point" for anything else that you'd need to wire up outdoors. Sometimes it's easier to jump off the garage rather than the house, depending on the layout of things.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

A pool??? man I need to charge more money for my decks.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

RobertCDF said:


> A pool??? man I need to charge more money for my decks.


Don't be too jealous - the condition of the pool is questionable as it's full of ice and I'm very doubtful that the heater even works. And it's likely the liner needs replacing.

As things stand now, it doesn't look like we're going to come to an agreement on the price. However, all the above advice won't go to waste because I will be putting a separate service in whatever house/garage we end up buying.


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