# A few good Men.



## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

Spike7 said:


> and i totally agree
> 
> young guys these days , ( an alot of the not so young) just seem so " entitiled.
> 
> ...


I think people need to stop looking at as being entitled. 

In a young guy in this industry and for me to be able to drive something reliable. Look clean and have a few tools I have to have more that $13/hr

I agree with people who have worked for themselves make better employees. But as everyone here can back me up with its hard to start/ run a company of any size. Even more so if people question if your old enough to be doing this by yourself.


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

AirdrieHandyman

i hear you .
.you seem to have the right attitude and care how you come across, and you want to come prepared 

maybe i should have said " most" , or a good amount " of younger guys seem entitled .
i dont think i mentioned wage.
i don`t really hire all guys at any one particular wage.
i see what their skills are , and go from there .

as far as you " need " $13 an hour ( which is not high at all by the way).
sorry , i would only pay what your worth from my perspective ( not yours).
if you make money for me , i`ll pay you what you , and i feel agree works for both of us .( please don`t take that as an arrogant statement)

entitled is a verb to me .
it gets in the way of peoples other, more valuable verbs


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

griz said:


> If you talk to older guys in ANY trade they have the same story.
> 
> Leave construction out of the picture....
> 
> ...




Thats because people raise their kids to be soft. They want them to have it better than they did. If thats true, put a boot in their azz when they screw up. Make it hard on them. 

Some of the things I see with peers raising their kids and my peers parents when they raised them are sickening. Unbelievable indulgence. 

I heard the SEVENTEEN year old son of another builder tell one his dads employees to DO WHAT HE SAYS, HE WILL BE THEIR BOSS ONE DAY.  If that little gold bricker isnt already ruined, he will be. What a waste. If my son said that to one of my men Id tell him to get his azz back in the hole where I put you with your shovel or get off my jobsite. My dad would of run my azz off for a comment like that. 

Instant managers are worthless, and my generation is full of them. Get some calluses and battle scars before you grab the clipboard. That same gold bricker had to have an employee build his deer blind. Tiger needed some help. For gods sake, his dad is a builder. Even if he is going to be a doctor or lawyer he should be able to cut a roof at his age. 


Raise your kids to expect to work for what they get. Or the pussification of America will only get worse.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

My kids have boot printed underwear.


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## Miss Brown (Mar 30, 2011)

Maybe looking for a few good, uh, men, is the problem....I ain't found a good one yet! (Kidding, I'm kidding.) 

I'm really happy with the few guys I have to help me. I pay them 12/ and gatorade tips. I try not to make them feel like idiots when they don't know something....and they work very hard. I can't find anyone with skills/tools who doesn't already have their own schedule backed up till 2020....


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## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

Spike7 said:


> AirdrieHandyman
> 
> i hear you .
> .you seem to have the right attitude and care how you come across, and you want to come prepared
> ...


I think you miss read the $13. I said I would need more than 13 I think the MacDonalds down the street starts at that and all you need to do is show up

What I was trying to say is instead of trying to find the diamond at the bottom of the pile try starting a little higher up and you have better luck finding someone who wants to do a good job


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

AirdrieHandyman said:


> I think you miss read the $13. I said I would need more than 13 I think the MacDonalds down the street starts at that and all you need to do is show up
> 
> What I was trying to say is instead of trying to find the diamond at the bottom of the pile try starting a little higher up and you have better luck finding someone who wants to do a good job


I watched a guy at wendys today make 21 cheesy something dollar burgers in less than two minutes. Now that is a skilled laborer.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Jaws said:


> If there is a trade program/school in your area, you might look for green helpers there.


wish more people did this. a lot of times the head of the carpentry program will have several people they can recommend. you may need to be flexible for people taking classes a couple days a week, but you can get quality people this way.

i started at $14/hr in the bay area, but i was real eager so i took less than the average. bakersfield, for a laborer, it seems like $12 isn't outlandishly low.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Jaws said:


> ...Thats because people raise their kids to be soft. They want them to have it better than they did. If thats true, put a boot in their azz when they screw up. Make it hard on them.
> 
> Some of the things I see with peers raising their kids and my peers parents when they raised them are sickening. Unbelievable indulgence.
> 
> ...


I'm having this "discussion" with my son & daughter-in-law...Grandson is 6... 
They think I am too hard on my Grandson....We spend hours out in the shop. He learns how & is expected to use tools correctly...

also expected to clean up when he is done...and put his tools away...

We go in prior to dinner & it is cocktail hour....I explain it is now time to relax...We have a couple of "drinks" together...He actually understands what it is to drink too much...:thumbsup:

Then the kids come in...Mommy Pappa really yelled at me today...He's teaching me how to work....

Holy Chit the war started....They chewed my arse about being too hard on him & how he doesn't like it...

BS...Nana served him dessert....smack dab halfway through it I say "Hey lets go to the shop?....Kid dropped the dessert like a hot rock and ran to the shop....so much for he don't like it & I'm being too hard on him...:thumbsup:


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

AirdrieHandyman said:


> I think you miss read the $13. I said I would need more than 13 I think the MacDonalds down the street starts at that and all you need to do is show up
> 
> What I was trying to say is instead of trying to find the diamond at the bottom of the pile try starting a little higher up and you have better luck finding someone who wants to do a good job


not trying to find a diamond 

sorry bubba , i can go at this all day 

your admittedtly young , and new at this 
i`m 54 , and 30 years at this.
my advice came from years of experience .

the reason i don`t start " a litle higher up" is because you get higher up , when you earn higher up.

thats why i say people are " entitled " 
they want the money first , and then want to prove it after the fact .

and if you don`t pan out , i lost money , while you made money you weren`t worth !!

entitled ...say it with me :blink::blink::blink:



your still coal , and after years , you`ll mabe become a diamond ,
theres no way i`ll pay for a diamond , until it is a diamond


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

My kids love working in the shop with me too. Kids want and need direction. With out it they are, well, lost. 

I had a proud dad moment the other day when my 9 yo ended up missing school because of a doctors appt misunderstanding so he went to work with me. We were walking through the isles of Lowes when I turned around and he was explaining to this guy that the little flat carts are supposed to be pulled not pushed. I could tell this guy wasnt impressed about being lectured by a 9 yo but heck the kid was right, idiot... :laughing:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Thats because people raise their kids to be soft. They want them to have it better than they did. If thats true, put a boot in their azz when they screw up. Make it hard on them.
> 
> Some of the things I see with peers raising their kids and my peers parents when they raised them are sickening. Unbelievable indulgence.
> 
> ...


Awesome post as usual, Jaw. I especially liked the highlighted part.

You truly have a way with words. :clap:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

A.T.C. said:


> Awesome post as usual, Jaw. I especially liked the highlighted part.
> 
> You truly have a way with words. :clap:


Jaws has no way with words....:whistling..:laughing:

He just tells it like it is with no fluff or BS..:thumbsup:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

griz said:


> Jaws has no way with words....:whistling..:laughing:
> 
> He just tells it like it is with no fluff or BS..:thumbsup:



Direct is best :thumbup:

When I write an important email I feel strongly about, I usually save it as a draft and read it later, before sending it. Im told I lack tact.:whistling Email usually gets reduced to half its original content. :laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

griz said:


> I'm having this "discussion" with my son & daughter-in-law...Grandson is 6...
> They think I am too hard on my Grandson....We spend hours out in the shop. He learns how & is expected to use tools correctly...
> 
> also expected to clean up when he is done...and put his tools away...
> ...


Keep at it, he will be head and shoulders above his peers when he is a man. 

Working in the shop beats playing video games :thumbsup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Jaws said:


> Direct is best :thumbup:
> 
> When I write an important email I feel strongly about, I usually save it as a draft and read it later, before sending it. Im told I lack tact.:whistling Email usually gets reduced to half its original content. :laughing:


Your theory is good....:thumbsup:

The second version usually lacks the significance and emotion of your initial message...

Although we generally want to keep emotions out of our communications at times they are VERY important & necessary...:thumbsup:

WTF...you know exactly what I mean....dam kids....:laughing:


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## JSM_CC (Jul 25, 2012)

griz said:


> I'm having this "discussion" with my son & daughter-in-law...Grandson is 6...
> They think I am too hard on my Grandson....We spend hours out in the shop. He learns how & is expected to use tools correctly...
> 
> also expected to clean up when he is done...and put his tools away...
> ...


My Grandpa did that with me starting at age 4. He's the reason why i chose this path. I just hope i can do that when i have a grandkid.


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## JSM_CC (Jul 25, 2012)

Spike7 said:


> not trying to find a diamond
> 
> sorry bubba , i can go at this all day
> 
> ...


So the phrase, "It takes money to make money" doesn't come into play here? I've been at the end of the spectrum where I took a huge cut in pay just to get the job and after 6months when i asked for a raise i was denied. But 6months later when i said i was quitting then the raise i asked for was offered to get me to stay!


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## PierceIdaho (Jul 25, 2011)

We are going to look into this program when we are ready to hire:

https://www.nrd.gov/home/veterans_job_bank

It's also called Joining Forces, but that link takes you right to the white house website.

We have two bases close to home, so lots of young heros looking for new careers. :thumbsup:


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

JSM_CC said:


> So the phrase, "It takes money to make money" doesn't come into play here? I've been at the end of the spectrum where I took a huge cut in pay just to get the job and after 6months when i asked for a raise i was denied. But 6months later when i said i was quitting then the raise i asked for was offered to get me to stay!


i guess i don`t have " Jaws" polish when i write .

man what does "It takes money to make money" have to do at all with my point ??
we were talking wages .
if you want an arguement that way ,i`ll go that way .
that phrase means more about a business man has to spend money to make money.
it has nothing to do with over-paying an un-proved new employee.
thats" losing money to make money"
you should only be paid what your worth , and the only way to see what your worth is by showing what your worth.

thats like the slack guy who coasts and says " well !when i make more money , i`ll work harder !"
no , sorry , if your work ethic is there , you`d work hard , and show that you are worth more money.and if a boss doesn`t appreciate you , then you should move on .
but your not going to be paid more than what your showing your worth.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

ADKRemodeling said:


> You can teach somebody to do any job, but what you cant teach is work ethic


I think you can influence some peoples work ethic, especially with young employees and people new to the business. That doesn't mean I'd keep a crappy worker with the expectation that I could make them hustle. On several occasions I have shown people on my crews that hustling for 8 hours beats dragging your ass for 10. There's something to be said for being home at 5pm with a happy boss and a happy customer.


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