# SCMS Which one 10" or 12" Bosch, Hitachi ???



## tnb (May 1, 2008)

Please help me on some questions. I am looking at getting a SCMS and had a few questions. It will be used for mainly framing work, siding, decks etc... I need one that will crosscut a 2' x 10' for sure also will the 10 inch ones cut a 4" X 4" post. That would be nice also but is that the only advantage that the 12 inch SCMS have over the 10 inch sliders? Also I have been doing some review reading and have narrowed it down to Hitachi, Bosch, and maybe a dewalt. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## bob14-0 (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't think you can go wrong with Makita, Dewalt or Hitachi. I've had the 10" Hitachi w/lazer guide for 4 years and it's performed flawlessly; quiet, smooth and accurate.

Bob


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

As I've seen, there are 5 players in the sliding miter saw market- Makita, Bosch, Dewalt, Hitachi, and Rigid. 

I personally hate the Makita- whoever designed the miter gauge and control knobs hadn't done much work with a miter saw before. It's plenty high quality and cuts fine, but it isn't easy to use. If you can get one of the other saws without the weird miter gauge location, then It is a pretty good choice. My saw is actually an older 10" Makita slider.

I used to recommend the Bosch saws, but the last couple times I've been at one of the local hardware stores and messing around with the saws, I've found that the Bosch saws seem to be rather loose- you could fairly easily swing it 1/2 a degree or more when the miter was completely locked down. In addition, the saw has a lot of extra gadgets that I couldn't see being all that useful, and would probably just get in your way.

The old Dewalt 708 12" slider was a great saw, one of the best I've ever used, and I've had a lot of experience with it. When the newer version, the 718, first came out, I was not very impressed with the quality. However, lately, it seems that the quality has greatly improved. Right now, the 718 is, in my opinion, the best 12" slider out there. 

The older model Hitachi seems like a very good saw, and it's still available as a 10". If I was buying a new 10", that is probably the saw that I would buy. The Hitachi 12" has been updated and restyled with the "alien" design, and in my opinion, they've created several faults, including the fact that the saw is very top heavy, and letting the cutting head spring up after making a cut can tip the whole saw over, stand and all. 

I've looked at the rigid, and everything about it was just fishy- things like the fact that the miter gauge went to 62 degrees, but the saw would only swing to 50 degrees, and other weird things like that. Also, it's really clunky and feels poorly built.

Of course, when it gets released, the Festool Kapex is probably going to blow everything away, both in utility and price.


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## dayspring (Mar 4, 2006)

My personal flavor is 'kita, but any of the top brands will do a good job. Many like the Bosch. I've had my 10" scms 'kita about 2+ years and haven't really needed anything larger. Very well made saw, I just don't like the way the miter scale is set up.


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## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

I like my Makita 10" slider. :thumbsup:


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Personally, for rough work, I'd prefer the Bosch 5412L. I have a warm spot in my heart for the DeWalts. 

This might help:

*Reviews*
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuil...mpound-miter-saw-tool-review.aspx?ac=ts&ra=fp

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1492&articleID=501379&artnum=1

*Video Comparisons:*

*Bosch*
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/video/miter-saw-tool-review-bosch.aspx

*Makita*
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/video/miter-saw-tool-review-makita.aspx

*DeWalt*
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/video/miter-saw-tool-review-dewalt.aspx

*Hitachi*
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/video/miter-saw-tool-review-hitachi.aspx

*Rigid*
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/video/miter-saw-tool-review-ridgid.aspx

*Craftsman*
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/video/miter-saw-tool-review-craftsman.aspx


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Kapex, but my bosch will do for now.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Kapex, but my bosch will do for now.


*Other toolmakers should bow down and hide their heads in shame to the Festool Kapex. :notworthy*









*However, I wonder how it would hold up to really brutal work like for rough framing, siding, roofing, etc...Even a lowly Black & Decker Firestorm can cut moldings and trim.

Ultimately, for me, what matters most is a saw's toughness and accuracy. While the Bosch is said to have some issues with it's accuracy (by far the most important thing a miter saw needs), it is a well engineered machine. Before I go out and make my big purchase for the whole set up (Bosch 5412L, Gravity Rise Stand, Hood, Auto Vacuum Turn On Switch, etc...), I'm waiting to see something good said about Bosch's accuracy being addressed.*


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

My 12" Bosch slider has been great, I have only had it for 6 months. I check it for 90 and 45 about once a week. I think the issue with most miter saws like that is the bouncing around on its stand in the trailer. They seem to have a tendency to loosen up a little bit. Standing it up on stand and strapping it to the wall seems to be a little better for it. I had a new 10" Makita for 2 months untill I made it into a boat anchor. Not near the quaility of the Bosch. Bosch is easy to use, all controls upfront, big scale, sliding fence, well made saw. All miter saws need to be checked and adjusted for accuracy every now and then. The Kapex is designed to cut all materials, extruded aluminum, laminates, solid surface, hard and soft woods and even hard woods up to 3"+ inches thick. It has on board speed control, what other miter saw has that. I think it would hold up to anything. Its got a 3 year warranty so you might as well use it for what you want. $1300.00 bones is a lot for a saw, but I think you would have it the rest of your life. I am more interested in it for doing kitchens, baths, flooring, and trim work, where I can set up in the house and not trek back and forth form inside to out side. They claim 91% dust collection. Come July I will be buying one, if I dont like it I have 30 days to return it!!!

Too bad with all the extras in the video you are looking at about $1800.00


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## 98mustangguy (Sep 6, 2007)

I have the Hitachi 10 scms the older one not the new alien looking one and it is awesome. first slider i have had so nothing to compare it to really but it works awesome every time i need it


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

> WarnerConstInc Too bad with all the extras in the video you are looking at about $1800.00



Without the toys, it's another miter saw. 
So I consider it an $1,800. saw. 

Worth it for guys who do high end work. 

I think I'll be happy with a Bosch.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

98mustangguy said:


> I have the Hitachi 10 scms the older one not the new alien looking one and it is awesome. first slider i have had so nothing to compare it to really but it works awesome every time i need it


That's the main way I judge a tool...does it do what I need for it to do when I need it to be done? 

That's how I fell in love with Bosch Demo Hammers. Every morning that I picked one up to get my work done, I knew exactly what it would do and how it would perform. It's the old saying of the tool becomming and extension of the arm...my roofing gun is a lot like that.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

The all-front controls of the Bosch make it the fastest saw to use, - - time is money.

For the most dead-nuts accurate, - - the Makita.

I like both, - - but I use the Bosch.


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## tnb (May 1, 2008)

Thanks for all that answered. This board is so helpful. Well the way it looks I am probaly leaning towards the Bosch but damn that Hitachi looks like a good one also. I don't own any Hitachi tools but I do have the Bosch jigsaw and love it. Does anyone know if either of the Bosch or Hitachis will cut thru a 4" x 4" post 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" ? Again A BIG THANKS for all you guys hep.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

yes they will


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

tnb said:


> Thanks for all that answered. This board is so helpful. Well the way it looks I am probaly leaning towards the Bosch but damn that Hitachi looks like a good one also. I don't own any Hitachi tools but I do have the Bosch jigsaw and love it. Does anyone know if either of the Bosch or Hitachis will cut thru a 4" x 4" post 3 1/2" X 3 1/2" ? Again A BIG THANKS for all you guys hep.


*Bosch Specifications *
Amperage: 15
Arbor Size: 1"
At 0 bevel/0 miter: 4-1/4" x 12-1/2"
At 0 miter/ 45 right bevel: 1-3/4" x 12-1/2"
At 0 miter/45 left bevel: 2-3/4" x 12-1/2"
At 45 miter and 45 right bevel: 2-5/8" x 8-3/4"
At 45 miter/ 0 Bevel: 4-1/4" x 8-3/4"
At 45 miter/45 left bevel: 2-3/4" x 8-3/4"
Base Molding - Against Fence: 4-1/4" Max
Base Molding - Laying Flat: 12"
Bevel Angle Range: 47° to 47°
Bevel Detent: 0°, 33.9°, 45° Left/Right
Bevel Stops: 0°, 33.9°, 45° Left/Right
Blade Diameter: 12"
Country of Origin: Taiwan
Crown Molding - Angled Against Fence: 6" Max
Crown Molding - Laying Flat: 10-1/4" Molding (90° corner when molding has a 38° "spring" angle from wall) using 31.6° miter and 33.9° bevel stops
Height: 20"
Max. Motor HP: 3.0
Miter Angle Range: 52° Left / 60° Right
Miter Detents: 0◦, 15◦, 22.5◦, 31.6◦, 45◦, (Left/Right) 60◦, (Right)
No Load RPM: 3,800
Rating: 120V
Weight (lbs.): 59 

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*Hitachi Specifications*

Amps15
No-Load Speed3,800 RPM
Blade Diameter12"
Miter Cutting Range0-46 L; 0-57 R
Bevel Cutting RangeLeft & Right 0-45
Digital DisplayYes
Laser MarkerYes
Saw Blade Drive SystemPoly V Belt & Gear
Splinter GuardProvided (Fixed)
Tool Dimension WxDxH23-7/16"x36-5/8"x27-15/16"
Tool Weight66.1 lbs
Cutting Capacities (HxW):......................
90 Degree Cross Cut4-3/16"x12-1/4" or 4-11/16"x10-3/16"
45 Degree Miter (L/R)4-3/16"x8-5/8" or 4-11/16" x7-1/16"
45 Degree Bevel (L)2-3/4"x12-1/4" or 2-15/16" x10-3/16"
Compound Cut 45x45 (L/L)2-3/4"x8-5/8" or 2-15/16"x7-1/16


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## 1018 (Mar 13, 2008)

Can anybody get my a towel to wipe up the drool from watching that video?


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

1018 said:


> Can anybody get my a towel to wipe up the drool from watching that video?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The Festool looks like a nice system. I wasn't impressed with the outside miter they showed though. It had a lot of spaces that looked like blade wobble had happened.

I have the Hitachi 12" slider. Nice saw, not perfect. The default blade that comes with it sucks. I put a Forrest Chopmaster on it and it is a different beast. I find the accuracy to be excellent. You can deflect the saw it you try. If you are careful and take the cut slow, youwill have no problems. If you ruch the cut you can have slight deflection issues. I wish the laser was on both sides of the blade.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Cordless Miter Saw System...

http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/217570_front200.jpg


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

2ndGen said:


> Cordless Miter Saw System...
> 
> http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/217570_front200.jpg


How about the new model?









http://www.dkhardware.com/product-22711-tmb200-cordless-metal-plastic-wood-compound-miter-saw.html

No word on how many cuts you get off a single battery though.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Is that seriously the best stand system festool could come up with? 

go with the Hitachi 10", it will not disappoint.

I have the old hitachi 10 and the new hitachi 12 and i like the 10" way better. The 10 is dead nuts on and the laser has yet to be matched. Notice that festool copied their laser design (but was smart and put one on the other side of the blade). As for the hitachi 12 being top heavy, i have had it on the old style rigid msuv and a dewalt stand and have had no troubles with it. 

The hitachi 10" is a joy to use, the miter gauge is accurate, the laser can be dialed in so you know where the edge of your blade will cut without a doubt and is very useful for matching scribe marks, and it is very light!

The bosch miter guage SUCKS! the tick marks are 1/16th thick! The makita gauge is irritating as all get out...but it would probably be my second choice for a saw.


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## rojigga (Mar 16, 2008)

2ndGen said:


> Cordless Miter Saw System...
> 
> http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/217570_front200.jpg


I've heard about that! Sounds like a solid idea... Not sure if I'm willing to fork out for that system at this time though:jester:.


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## rojigga (Mar 16, 2008)

TempestV said:


> How about the new model?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My partner bought the 10" battery slider about a year ago. Sounded great... Looked great. Unfortunately didn't perform as great... Can't complain about anything but the battery life. Solid on all fronts but even cutting softwood killed the battery way quick. BTW all my SCMS and table saw are Bosch, love them but unless this product fixed the battery problem I can't endorse it.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

TempestV said:


> How about the new model?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Bosch Site has no specs on it at all when I checked it.

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductCategory.aspx?catid=631

I guess that saw would be perfect for trim carpenters.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

I've got the Dewalt 718 for framing. Good good saw.
Makita 10" for fine finish ..........smooth:thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The stand for the kapex is their MFT (multi-function table) all of their clamps, rails, everything fits and works with those. I personally dont like to carry the saw and then the stand and then set it up. I would rather have it on someone elses stand. But I still want a MFT


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

I was skeptical about Bosch's Gravity Rise Stand being stable, but it is. 

I like that it could be rolled out of a truck, to the jobsite, set up, worked on, no have to be broken down, dropped and rolled right back out. 

It should be really easy to transport from place to place while "on" site too.

Video on several stands...

http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/Videos/Index.aspx?id=80116


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

2ndGen, Are you talking about the gravity rise for the mitre saws? And if so where did you get it at? I cant find one anywhere around me. I am the kinda guy that likes to kick all 5 tires, and play with every knob and button on something. I would like to have one for my 12" Bosch. My only problem with the one for their table saw is that the tires need to be bigger, you really have to pay attention or you can mess up stairs in a hurry with it.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 2ndGen, Are you talking about the gravity rise for the mitre saws? And if so where did you get it at? I cant find one anywhere around me. I am the kinda guy that likes to kick all 5 tires, and play with every knob and button on something. I would like to have one for my 12" Bosch. My only problem with the one for their table saw is that the tires need to be bigger, you really have to pay attention or you can mess up stairs in a hurry with it.


Lowes has them. It is surprisingly stable. I was seriously considering either the Rigid or the Delta stands, but I'm going with The Bosch. 

There is talk about them being taken up stairs carefully. 

I wonder if they tires can be swapped out with tires from Northern Tools? 

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

2ndGen said:


> I wonder if they tires can be swapped out with tires from Northern Tools?


This would likely make the stand hold the saw at an angle. Bigger tires will lift one side higher than the other. You might be able to [permanently] shim the other side and alleviate this problem.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Leo G said:


> This would likely make the stand hold the saw at an angle. Bigger tires will lift one side higher than the other. You might be able to [permanently] shim the other side and alleviate this problem.


Great observation...as long as it didn't interfere with the operation of the saw stand itself or it's stablity...or, one could just altar the stairs! :laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Just cover the parts that will rub with rubber to protect the stair surfaces. Pretty simple.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

It's a big set up.

I'd definately have someone on the bottom end lifting it as I'd go up. 

Worst case scenario, take it apart and take the saw up then the stand. 

:thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Lowe's has them huh? I will have to go look soon. I love the basch tablesaw with the gravity rise. I have the old Ridgid msuv and I really like it, but the gravity rise is soooooo much sweeter!!! Thank you 2ndGen


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Lowe's has them huh? I will have to go look soon. I love the basch tablesaw with the gravity rise. I have the old Ridgid msuv and I really like it, but the gravity rise is soooooo much sweeter!!! Thank you 2ndGen


:thumbsup:


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## geesspots (May 13, 2008)

*miter saws*

we been using a makita on the job for 10 + years still accurate for framing not for finishing. just got another one with laser /laser is useless it is hard to see at the best of times but they work great. the gaurd chipped at the leading edge and gets hung up sometimes. My apprentice recently droped it from around 15 feet boucing it down the scaffolding along the way. But still cuts true. this seems like a good test of the saw.

started on a dewalt 12 inch non slider the gaurd started jamming early on and became a hassle.

I did however just buy myself a bosch 12 sliding. I like the up front controls ( the one down fall of the makita) seems liek a lot of plastic on it thought. the price was right 475$ canadian including the BOSCH josite radio 250$ value couldn't say no


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