# Timbrel Vaults anyone???



## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

Wondering if anyone here has attempted a timbrel vault....I'm thinking of trying a small one this spring, just to try it....I can't wait for a customer to need one, that will never happen....but these have fascinated me for some time....www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/11/tiles-vaults.html


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Someone here as posted some pics of work they did like that. Cant remember who it was, but it was impressive. I dont remember if it was real or lick and stick.

Those pictures are absolutely amazing though. I dont think you will ever find anyone who wants to spend the time and money it takes to do something like that though. The golden age is over.


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

I've always been interested in these as well. I keep trying to convince one of my clients, a wine cellar builder, to let me do this. If you try one out, I'd be interested in what you learn.:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Wow great link....I just finished reading a book about building cathedrals over Christmas so my interest in vaulting is piqued again. If i ever build a house it will have a vaulted masonry ceiling somewhere.

This picture has always captured my imagination.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Some Links from a few previous discussions.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f48/brick-groined-vault-roof-52677/

http://www.contractortalk.com/f48/groin-vault-ceiling-pictures-35885/

http://www.contractortalk.com/f48/brick-ceiling-2-tscarborogh-17974/

Another super interesting link with some instructions on how to build. (Heck even some MIT students built one)
http://www.guastavino.net/


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## Rockmonster (Nov 15, 2007)

It looks like the exhibition on this by Boston Public Library and MIT has been pushed from 2009 to this year, ending Dec. 2010. Thankfully, as I thought I had missed it. This should be fantastic, and for me, it's close. Thanks for that link Luka. It's great to see a fair amount of interest in this kind of work. I like that small MIT project, that may be what I try initially...This exhibit may create a niche market for this work in the high end....So maybe some of us may finally get a chance to do one of these...I think I'll get to Boston soon... Artisan, I think your wine cellar is coming soon, I'm crossing my fingers for you...


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Hmmm, Bostons only 2.5 hours away.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

another timbrel vaulting link with some fascinating pics for those who don't read

http://www.notechmagazine.com/2009/12/timbrel-vaulting-in-south-africa-by-peter-rich-architects.html


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Speaking of beautiful pics of vaulted masonry ceilings....

http://www.flickr.com/groups/vaults/pool/


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## masonryworks (Dec 24, 2009)

Keep it up boys those are awesome pics and info thanks


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Here's an old one in a cafe in London. The craftmanship is not that good, but it was probably not built as a showpiece.








Here's the method for building one if you can find someone with enough cash.


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## Fundi (Jan 5, 2009)

I also want to try timbrel vault now that I have a little experience building barrel vaults and groined vaults with normal sized bricks.

I am a bit concerned about the cost of plaster of paris, as with a bovedas or nubian method you can use clay which is almost free in comparison. 

I posted one of the links that Lukachuki listed above on what i have tried so far. I keep looking and looking for more details, like how to cut the tiles going into the groin without a rib. I guess you just try a small one like the MIT students until you figure it out.

Thanks everyone for some more links , some of them I havent seen.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I decided to try a (modified) Timbrel vault for my personal wood fired oven. It is built using 2-1/4"WX1-5/8"Hx9"L firebrick. I used a buck, but the grab of the dry firebrick and refractory cement was good enough that I could have done it without. 2 layers of firebrick and a 3/4" layer of mortar for a masonry mass of 4". It went up in 5 hours, and I pulled the buck the same day.


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

That's nice, what refractory cement did you use?


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Tscarborough said:


> I decided to try a (modified) I used a buck, but the grab of the dry firebrick and refractory cement was good enough that I could have done it without. .


 
Could you have obtained the nice arch without the buck? I think it serves two purposes. 

Nice work, It is helping me see my pizza oven.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Able Refractory cement out of Houston. Air set, heat cure.

My false work was so crappy that I only used it for a guide anyway.


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## denver 2 (Jan 1, 2009)

*Recent brick ceiling I installed for a wine grotto*

Here is what is called a groin vault that I built this past summer for a client.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Denver,
Nice brickwork on the wine cellar. You need to post that in the masonry pics section. 

You do know what they call three masons in a basement...?



A whine cellar.:clap:


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## Fundi (Jan 5, 2009)

Denver,
Did you use centring? 

Did you put in the ribs as you went or completely before filling in?


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## denver 2 (Jan 1, 2009)

Fundi,

The method I used was to first build the groin arch ceiling out of wood then sheet it with masonite board and then apply some metal lath and add a scratch coat of mortar. I cut the ribs out of bullnose brick and cut the ceiling brick to a 1 inch depth and then applied as a thin brick application. I first applied the ribs and then filled the barrel arches on all four sides and then grouted all the work with a grout bag. If you are attempting to build a groin arch out of lightweight brick tiles as some of the pictures show earlier in this post I would think starting with the ribs would be helpful. You still would need to build some arch supports for the ribs and then fill in partially all four sides as you go to create equal latteral pressure on the ribs. Good luck!


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## CanCritter (Feb 9, 2010)

most archs are simple if you build your form right and some paitience and timely use of some sand to ease jointing...with todays adhesives even easyer...keep the pics comein..always open for new ideas...have some material l could post but all is packed for upcomeing move back home so will have to wait....home is where the heart is :O)


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