# How do I deal with a pos contractor?



## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

I was just fired from a project. The contractor owes 30000 and 20000 left to finish. There is about a weeks work left. I think he will have his guys finish and subtract from my contract. Can he do this? He is claiming deficient work, however, it was his trades people who banged the crap out of the walls and he wanted me to fix for 0! He brought in the owner and made me look bad. I sent an intent to lien notice today and i will file at the end of the week. How will this play out? Should i just torch his trucks? lol..just kidding


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

K, first off i hope you meant to wrote 3,000 and not 30,000. Assuming we are talking about 3,000, you could file liens, call the contractor, contact the homeowner directly and tell them what really happened. All these things take time and energy, Time and energy that could be spent selling and doing other work. Sometimes we come across these a -holes and have to chaulk it up to the nature of business, I would probably contact the HO, tell them the truth, hopefully they know the contractor is an a-hole and will cover you directly, if not, MOVE ON, SELL SELL SELL, G


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## brm1109 (Oct 28, 2008)

If the contractor has an office I would park my truck in front with a sign that they do not pay their subs (I actually did this to someone that owed me money, I parked just outside of the parking lot. I had my money within 30 min.).
Then also call the homeowner and tell them what happened and that you have no choice but to lien their property.
You should have no problem getting paid.


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

Like Genecarp, I hope its 3,000. I ate $2,800 last year on a job. Customer was terrific, right up to the last payment. Wanted me to do extra work, (replace rotted framing, where his roof leaked for ten years). I basically said 'sure, lets square up, and I'd be glad to work out a price". He got "insulted" and flamed... Long story short, I had to decide whether to take him to small claims court for $2000, or eat it. I'm eating it.

Thinking about taking someone to court, made me literally sick, I couldn't concentrate on what I was doing on other jobs. Thinking about eating it, just made me mad.... which is probably normal for me. I can work fine when mad, but not when stressed to the max. 

If it's for $20,000-$30,000 however I think I'd take someone to court for it. Even if I wasn't 100% in the right, that's a lot to leave on the table. You should re-coup some of what's owed, even after paying a lawyer.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

So is it $3k or $30k....?


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

CookeCarpentry said:


> So is it $3k or $30k....?


Bet it is 30K. Been there once, not a pretty picture.:sad:


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

Framer53 said:


> Bet it is 30K. Been there once, not a pretty picture.:sad:



you are right it is 30,000.00 and 20,000.00 left on our contract for about a weeks worth of work remaining. What is sad is that looking back, I now believe it was a plan all along.

Anyways, we have half a dozen of our crew protesting in front of the job site tomorrow. Should be fun. Any ideas for signage?


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

kanadaeh said:


> you are right it is 30,000.00 and 20,000.00 left on our contract for about a weeks worth of work remaining. What is sad is that looking back, I now believe it was a plan all along.
> 
> Anyways, we have half a dozen of our crew protesting in front of the job site tomorrow. Should be fun. Any ideas for signage?


Anything at all?


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

*Might not be the BEST ideas.....*



kanadaeh said:


> Any ideas for signage?













...but they certainly do draw attention.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

##### contracting company 
are a bunch of deadbeats who do not pay there bills (beware).


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm going through the same thing. I feel your pain. Except my problem is $700.00 not 30k. Never did trust this gc. We shall see.


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

kanadaeh said:


> I was just fired from a project. The contractor owes 30000 and 20000 left to finish. There is about a weeks work left. I think he will have his guys finish and subtract from my contract. Can he do this? He is claiming deficient work, however, it was his trades people who banged the crap out of the walls and he wanted me to fix for 0! He brought in the owner and made me look bad. I sent an intent to lien notice today and i will file at the end of the week. How will this play out? Should i just torch his trucks? lol..just kidding


I assume you mean he owes $30k for work performed to this point and you have another week to finish and a final payment of $20k for a total of $50k left to collect on the job, right?

#1 - Please tell me you got all your **** straight... licenses, insurances, workers comp, legal employees or 1099 guys, written contract with a clear draw schedule, etc, etc..

#2 - Get ready for it to drag on for a long long time. $50k is no small matter... unfortunately you will find that if the contractor and owner are willing to dig in their heels, they are daring you to spend $30k to possibly collect $50k.

#3 - Go to the site and TAKE DIGITAL VIDEO of how the site exists right this second. Call a lawyer and have him contact lawyer for the contractor and owner. They have to allow this. No telling how much 'deficient work' is being created tonight that will be your fault... if you get my drift.

Best of luck.


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

TigerFan said:


> I assume you mean he owes $30k for work performed to this point and you have another week to finish and a final payment of $20k for a total of $50k left to collect on the job, right?
> 
> #1 - Please tell me you got all your **** straight... licenses, insurances, workers comp, legal employees or 1099 guys, written contract with a clear draw schedule, etc, etc..
> 
> ...


#1 we have everything except a contract (i know, I know)
we have done work for this guy before and he is the only one who would not do contracts. Now i know why. We do have our quotation and first % progress claim which was accepted and paid?

#2 contractor told me today that he would by the lein and i would need 50-100,000 to fight him in court.

#3 we picketed today received lots of support lol. Client is not happy. Served a cease and desist at the end of the day threatening a libelous suit


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

kanadaeh said:


> #1 we have everything except a contract (i know, I know)
> we have done work for this guy before and he is the only one who would not do contracts. Now i know why. We do have our quotation and first % progress claim which was accepted and paid?
> 
> #2 contractor told me today that he would by the lein and i would need 50-100,000 to fight him in court.
> ...


 
Commercial property?


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

Framer53 said:


> Commercial property?


31 unit apartment building, lots of repairs


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

This appears to be a common for some GC's way to negotiate after the work is done.
We have a famous mall developer around here that does similar. 
Good luck collecting, maybe an offer to settle, without resorting to lawsuit.
If he is saying it will cost you 50-100k for a lawsuit, you can bet it will cost similar for him.

As long as your work is allright, I would contact and see if you can negotiate. If you walk with 1/2, better take it, and learn from the experience.:thumbsup:


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

Framer53 said:


> This appears to be a common for some GC's way to negotiate after the work is done.
> We have a famous mall developer around here that does similar.
> Good luck collecting, maybe an offer to settle, without resorting to lawsuit.
> If he is saying it will cost you 50-100k for a lawsuit, you can bet it will cost similar for him.
> ...


I am just watching the news lol we should be on any minute


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## DeckMan77 (Jun 30, 2009)

*$30K sucks*

I've never been behind more than $8K for 60 days by a GC for a fence job. I can't imagine worrying about $30K owed plus $20K still own on the table. Good luck, curious to see how this all plays out.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

your best bet may be the protesting in front of the property. I'm sure the owner of the complex won't like the attention and it may force their hand to settle the issue.


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## nlgutters (Dec 18, 2007)

kanadaeh said:


> #1 we have everything except a contract (i know, I know)
> we have done work for this guy before and he is the only one who would not do contracts. Now i know why. We do have our quotation and first % progress claim which was accepted and paid?
> 
> #2 contractor told me today that he would by the lein and i would need 50-100,000 to fight him in court.
> ...



Had a gc last year that owed us 25k. Its been 15 months and ive spent 8k and we havent gotten anywhere yet.


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

We did picket out front of the 31 unit project. Received tons of positive support. My concern was making other contractors nervous to hire us but I spoke to one, he says, "Are you crazy? We have all been screwed at one time or another and you are taking a stand."

I just called him and told him we would entertain the idea of settling. He told me he would be willing to sit down and talk lawyers included. I told him I want it straight to the point. Come up with a number and I will as well and thats that. Cut a cheque (certified), Sign necessary documents, and move on. Done deal.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

kanadaeh said:


> We did picket out front of the 31 unit project. Received tons of positive support. My concern was making other contractors nervous to hire us but I spoke to one, he says, "Are you crazy? We have all been screwed at one time or another and you are taking a stand."
> 
> I just called him and told him we would entertain the idea of settling. He told me he would be willing to sit down and talk lawyers included. I told him I want it straight to the point. Come up with a number and I will as well and thats that. Cut a cheque (certified), Sign necessary documents, and move on. Done deal.


Please make him offer first! 
Remember, he may lowball you to start, take someone who is used to negotiating.:thumbsup:


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

Framer53 said:


> Please make him offer first!
> Remember, he may lowball you to start, take someone who is used to negotiating.:thumbsup:



Thanks, I will remember that. I am usually not the greatest negotiator but I will be focused tomorrow.


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

kanadaeh said:


> Thanks, I will remember that. I am usually not the greatest negotiator but I will be focused tomorrow.


SMILE AND SAY "NO" UNTIL YOU'RE BLUE IN THE FACE!

That's my 10 second strategy for your negotiation.

Best of luck!


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

kanadaeh said:


> I was just fired from a project. The contractor owes 30000 and 20000 left to finish. There is about a weeks work left. I think he will have his guys finish and subtract from my contract. Can he do this? He is claiming deficient work, however, it was his trades people who banged the crap out of the walls and he wanted me to fix for 0! He brought in the owner and made me look bad. I sent an intent to lien notice today and i will file at the end of the week. How will this play out? Should i just torch his trucks? lol..just kidding



The names change but the
story stays the same.
.:thumbup:.​


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

I had just finished our meeting. He had offered 80% payment. I feel we are closer to 90% complete but should I dig in my heels for 5-10 %? Basically he wants to keep around 10,900 of our contract to complete what would cost us 7,000-8,000 to complete. This means we would receive a cheque immediately and no more call backs, etc. Or, we could go after wrongful dismissal, mechanic's lien, etc. and battle in the courts. What do you guys think?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

See if he will bite on 85%.
If not, 80% of something is better
than 100% of nothing. :thumbsup:


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

kanadaeh said:


> I had just finished our meeting. He had offered 80% payment. I feel we are closer to 90% complete but should I dig in my heels for 5-10 %? Basically he wants to keep around 10,900 of our contract to complete what would cost us 7,000-8,000 to complete. This means we would receive a cheque immediately and no more call backs, etc. Or, we could go after wrongful dismissal, mechanic's lien, etc. and battle in the courts. What do you guys think?


 
Take it. Ask when he will have a certified check available.
Now let's talk about doing business without contracts!


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

kanadaeh said:


> Basically he wants to keep around 10,900 of our contract to complete what would cost us 7,000-8,000 to complete. This means we would receive a cheque immediately and no more call backs, etc. Or, we could go after wrongful dismissal, mechanic's lien, etc. and battle in the courts. What do you guys think?


If I read this right and you are talking about receiving at most $3,900 less than on a 50k+ job than you would if you finished it all the way out, I would:

Take the payment (cert check, cash, MO, meet him at the bank, etc) and consider it over and done.

$3,900 is less than the cost of the retainer you'll have to provide to the atty.

Take it, take it, take it.


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## TigerFan (Apr 11, 2006)

Framer53 said:


> Now let's talk about doing business without contracts!


Hate to say it, but a contract wouldn't be that helpful at this point.

If the other side wants to create a fight simply to make you spend money, any rock solid contract is nothing better than a rock solid doorstop.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I'd pitch the 85% but be ready to take 80 in a second. If they started out at 80, they may be expecting you to counter and be willing to go to 85.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

tgeb said:


> I'd pitch the 85% but be ready to take 80 in a second. If they started out at 80, they may be expecting you to counter and be willing to go to 85.


That's what I thought too.


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

I would have them make the check to your attorney, and give the attorney the check.


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## Worm Drive (May 2, 2007)

Framer53 said:


> This appears to be a common for some GC's way to negotiate after the work is done.
> We have a famous mall developer around here that does similar.



I know exactly who you mean. He's famous for stiffing subs. He screwed over a few subs on a mall in Syracuse, for alot of $. I don't understand why anyone would work for him.


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## dvon104 (Jun 23, 2007)

you have to figure out what is this worth to you...and make your decision...

personally I could not fathom someone owing me even 500.00 ..I want my money and for the amount of money your talking about ...I could possibly end up in jail because I would choke him until his eyes rolled back :furious:


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## kanadaeh (Sep 6, 2005)

dvon104 said:


> you have to figure out what is this worth to you...and make your decision...
> 
> personally I could not fathom someone owing me even 500.00 ..I want my money and for the amount of money your talking about ...I could possibly end up in jail because I would choke him until his eyes rolled back :furious:



My girlfriend is po'ed! She would barely speak to me all day because I am negotiating with this guy. She wants me to fight to the end for the full contract amount. I explained the pros and cons but she feels we were wronged and she wants blood. I will send her shopping when we receive a cheque..lol..that should change her opinion. Better her spending the money then him.


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## excellencee (Feb 1, 2007)

Worm Drive said:


> I know exactly who you mean. He's famous for stiffing subs. He screwed over a few subs on a mall in Syracuse, for alot of $. I don't understand why anyone would work for him.


 
People continue to work for these pricks for a variety of reasons. New guy just starting out...Don't know the GC or his reputation...No work and willing to take the chance... 
When I first started out, I sent letters to every home builder in the yellow pages, local builders association membership directory, newspaper, etc. Out of over 100 letters, I got 1 call. I didn't know that he had filed bankrupcy 3 times. I didn't know he stiffed everyone he worked with. I just was happy to get some work. When we parted ways, he only owed me $3,000. He still does and I know I'll never see it. He has a sign at the local golf course. I enjoy "watering" it every time I play there. I know its not money but piss on him anyway.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

Worm Drive said:


> I know exactly who you mean. He's famous for stiffing subs. He screwed over a few subs on a mall in Syracuse, for alot of $. I don't understand why anyone would work for him.


 
Where are you?


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## Worm Drive (May 2, 2007)

Near Syracuse


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Kanadeah-any news yet? I've been pulling for you!

My guess is that he settled it and is catching up on the lack of sleep this thing can cause.


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