# What's the latest and greatest in waterproofing?



## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Hey guys ! Been busy as hell! Didn't realize the app changed and just got back on. I'm still using a schluter / mapei elastometric combo. Just wanna know if there is anything to better the scenario. Thanks in advance!


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I don't know.....

Never seen a wet duck....:whistling

Good night...:laughing:


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Yup. Pre slope, drypack, cbu, aqua defense. Always pour and concrete curb too..


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I have gone full circle and have steered back towards my roots with these shower builds.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I love the schluter shower kit.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I don't know if there's anything "better". I gave up on having a one-size-fits-all approach to showers. For a standard shape shower, I can really fly with a liquid membrane and prefabbed foam pans and niches. For a custom we still need the mud bed and then the waterproofing is determined by the timeline. If we need to hurry then a fabric membrane can be installed the next day, if no hurry then liquid works well.

I think liquid is one of the easiest to pull off and so that's my normal inclination. I can have a helper roll on a good coat of Hydroban but there's no way in hell I'm letting him install NobleSeal in a shower.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Kerdi can be tiled same day as well as most roll on membranes. Not that I would, but just clarifying.

And I agree with the hybrid system. That's what we do in most cases. Kerdi curb and pan, niches either preformed or durock, and walls get roll on.

Barrier free we are using the TuffForm system. They use a roll on membrane.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Kerdi can be tiled same day as well as most roll on membranes. Not that I would, but just clarifying.
> 
> And I agree with the hybrid system. That's what we do in most cases. Kerdi curb and pan, niches either preformed or durock, and walls get roll on.
> 
> Barrier free we are using the TuffForm system. They use a roll on membrane.


I think his point was more there is no one perfect solution. If you have other things to do then rolling on a few coats of liquid may be more cost effective than applying Kerdi. If it's a job in the middle of nowhere and time is of the essence then liquid may be a very poor choice.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I wasn't implying that the wait time was AFTER the membrane application although that does add a bit. I'm talking about the cure time of a mud bed before you can apply liquid membrane. It adds two days.

Edit: It's technically two days but only one day of wait time if I'm able to tile the walls in one day. I always prefer to put the last coat of liquid on after the walls are tiled anyway. If it's a two day job to tile the walls then there's no wait time difference.


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## Groutface (Jan 20, 2011)

Nothing but schluter drain kits for me. KERDI on pan and curb with prefab corners and marry the wall board and KERDI with aqua defense


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> I think his point was more there is no one perfect solution. If you have other things to do then rolling on a few coats of liquid may be more cost effective than applying Kerdi. If it's a job in the middle of nowhere and time is of the essence then liquid may be a very poor choice.


And I agreed with that, there is no one perfect solution.

Also, I'm not sure that you are representing the proper installation of roll on membranes. The most common error I see is not getting enough coverage. It looks good from a few feet away, but upon inspection, there are thousands of small holes in the surface of the CBU that don't get filled.

You can't just pop in and roll on a coat, let it dry and roll on another. Filling the drying time with whatever other projects you are working on. I recommend brushing on the first coat. It ensures a good majority of those holes are filled on the first coat, but it takes quite a bit longer than most think.

When you properly install a roll on membrane your time isn't that different than installing a fabric system. Especially when you calculate the multiple coats that are required by a roll on.

I would agree that a poured pan may not be wise, but again, there are products, such as Mapecem that greatly decrease your down time. You can pour and waterproof your pan in the same day.

I also don't understand your logic on the middle of nowhere roll on example. That's where properly planning is key.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

EthanB said:


> I wasn't implying that the wait time was AFTER the membrane application although that does add a bit. I'm talking about the cure time of a mud bed before you can apply liquid membrane. It adds two days.
> 
> Edit: It's technically two days but only one day of wait time if I'm able to tile the walls in one day. I always prefer to put the last coat of liquid on after the walls are tiled anyway. If it's a two day job to tile the walls then there's no wait time difference.


Ethan, I was just clarifying the installation recommendations.

Also see my previous post. There are products that you can use to make them a one day process.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

So Rob, you use the Schluter pan kits as well as drain kit and kerdi the floor and curb, kerdi band the corner, and then do a roll on for the walls? Why the roll on vs kerdi for the walls? Does it cost less that way?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So Rob, you use the Schluter pan kits as well as drain kit and kerdi the floor and curb, kerdi band the corner, and then do a roll on for the walls? Why the roll on vs kerdi for the walls? Does it cost less that way?


I don't like the Kerdi fabric. It's too easy to miss lumps. I don't like the overlapping of the seams, too much build up, especially in the corners. I just like the freedom that the roll on affords. I can buy the drains for $100, Pan $100 and the curb for like $50. I still have two rolls left over from other jobs, so I have plenty of fabric for the pan and curb.


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## [email protected] (Nov 17, 2014)

Well you can look at my *Trade:* And tell I'm obviously a schluter guy :thumbup: 

Its Just a great company full of Knowledge, Resources, and employees ready to back you up at a moments notice, not only that but they do a great job at improving your business model with their literature, samples, and online resources.


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## ee3 (Feb 10, 2006)

Biggest issue I see with the Liquid Membrane is MOST people don't put it on anywhere close to thick enough..It (depending on brand) needs to be in the 50 mil range wet which is thicker then a credit card..(when it dry's it shrinks about 50%) Coverage is also only, about 50 sq. ft...
Need to wait in most cases min. 24 hours before flood test so that means tile is on 3rd day.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

I usually just pack a drypack base and Kerdi everything. I have gotten so proficient at applying the membrane that buildup is rarely a big issue. I run the membrane vertically in single pieces, starting at one end and working my way around to the other. The seams fall where they may.

Niches are either prefab Kerdi niche, Noble, or custom framed. When it is custom, I use the one piece Kerdi Niche template to waterproof the niche with one piece of Kerdi.

I don't care for the polystyrene trays or curbs, but have no aversion to using them if the customer insists. I don't like the hollow sound, and the trays are easy to damage until you get them covered with tile. But it sure beats the heck out of packing a pan for ease of installation.

I have used the Kerdi-Board a couple of times, and it is nice to work with, but I hate patching all the fasteners. I love 2" Kerdi-Board for seats. The 1 1/2" Kerdi-Board material is great for niche shelves.

I hear the USG system is pretty nice as far as the perm rating, and the membrane is actually thinner than Kerdi from what I understand. They also make custom bases.

That said, I have used liquids and have no problem with them. I think they perform fine as long as they are installed in accordance with manufacturer's instructions. Thickness is key. I also have no problem with traditional shower construction using vinyl liners, as long as proper TCNA procedures are followed. Personally, I think surface bonded membranes are superior, but I have installed many, many traditional showers without issue. No one system is ideal for every situation.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

ee3 said:


> Biggest issue I see with the Liquid Membrane is MOST people don't put it on anywhere close to thick enough..It (depending on brand) needs to be in the 50 mil range wet which is thicker then a credit card..(when it dry's it shrinks about 50%) Coverage is also only, about 50 sq. ft...
> Need to wait in most cases min. 24 hours before flood test so that means tile is on 3rd day.


Hey Eric, how's it hangin'?


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## ee3 (Feb 10, 2006)

single digit temps..today
getting set for some training this week
Surfaces,NTCA,KBIS 
did I say it was cold!!!?


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Tell me about it, been home sick for a couple weeks, and my feet are like ice cubes. Heating with wood sucks when yer sick. It's like feeding a teenage boy.


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