# What's your biggest concern going into 2013?



## Tom Reber (Dec 6, 2012)

As you head into 2013, what are you most concerned about? Marketing? Your team? Your plan? 

What's on your mind?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

The biggest concern that I have is people who commit fraud, break the law, and make egregious moves that make it harder for the rest of us who operate legitimately. 

I am at the point now where I will not work behind a hack to fix his screwups. On one hand I can feel for the HO who got a bum deal that just wants his stuff to be right. But if I present what's "right" and they still go for what's cheap, then I really can't help them.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Biggest concern? The staggering amount of sales that have to be made.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Mine is how to get the best business/marketing coach. :whistling


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Mine is getting all of the business/marketing coaches to follow the rules that they agreed to when they signed up. :whistling


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Having the patience & stamina to keep up with all we've got to get done. Already got the first month of 13 booked & starting on the second.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

Mine is school, last set of classes for me... then to write my Red Seal exams..... 


then to decide what to do with my life. That, in itself, is a damn scary thought.


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

Yesterday I sat down and wrote out my sales and profit goals for 2013. Then I calculated the markup I need to get to hit that profit goal. So, my concern/focus now is on doing the things necessary to sell the needed jobs at that markup so I can achieve my business goals.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm on the same line of thinking as Ted. The market around here for construction is saturated so bad with hacks and unlicnesed company's that they are either chargeing 1/5 what I am and doing a bad job or charging 3x what I am charging and running of with the money after doing a poor job. There's no one stopping them or controlling them yet the licensed guys are being hit hard by not only they above guys but Insurance, RRP, OSHA, Business exspenses etc etc

Just like the post about the guy with the bad yelp review. VA I'd full of these guys and they are themes doing the customers wrong yet they are winning law suits. This country seems to be set up to support the crooks and work shy and it's only getting worse.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

Living to get to 2014.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

ToolNut said:


> Living to get to 201*6*.


fixed it for ya...


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

$$$$$

2013 is my 3rd year in full time self employment. Although I am still unlicensed, my goal is to fix that.

general remodeler's license, here I come.

Not all of us unlicensed folk are hacks


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

My goal is to keep our current service areas in tact and say, "Hello Cincinnati!" Adding Northern Cincinnati to our service area has the possibilty to be a real game changer for us.

Also want to add custom home building to our services, perhaps even a separate S Corp.

For all your home remodeling and new home construction needs in Cincinnati Ohio call Ohio Home Doctor!


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

_suckas _ :laughing:


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

The need to be more organized. Learn to write down all information for every customer. Yes, even their zip code.

Log book sits right on my dashboard :whistling 

I've been a bad boy this year. :no:


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

Wait a minute buddy.....my plans stop after 12/21/12. The calendar on my phone won't go past that date.


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

My biggest concern for 2013 is that there will still only be 24 hours in a day. It's just not enough :no:


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

MOTORhard said:


> As you head into 2013, what are you most concerned about? Marketing? Your team? Your plan?
> 
> What's on your mind?


I am most concerned about hiring a new employee that is reliable and a good worker.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Finish my website and spend time working with it. I abandoned it but it's time to get with the program. Technology is a scary thing for me.

Otherwise that's it. 2012 was a phenomenal year with the exception of a few bad bids on my part.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm_ still _very concerned as how I'll find the very best business/marketing coach, any idea guys?


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

Oconomowoc said:


> I'll be your marketing coach J.
> 
> 1.) First off, buy a 12" x 18" magnet and slap it on the 89' Dodge.
> 
> ...


can we make this its own thread and make it a sticky?


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

*What's Your Biggest Concern Going Into 2013?*





making it to 2014


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Oconomowoc said:


> I'll be your marketing coach J.
> 7.) Make flyers with your dot-matrix printer....
> You should be good to go.


Don't completely agree with #7, the Canon 
Bubble Jet is definitely the way to go.

Nice new avatar, is that a VW with wings?


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

J F said:


> I'm still surprised the OP has gotten away with this thread. :laughing:


Maybe he sobered up.

Oops, thought you said 'got away from this thread'

Well, maybe he sobered up anyway.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Bunited2 said:


> Don't completely agree with #7, the Canon
> Bubble Jet is definitely the way to go.
> 
> Nice new avatar, is that a VW with wings?


1946 Piper J-3 Cub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYykW268qQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

Oconomowoc said:


> 1946 Piper J-3 Cub
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYykW268qQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


niiiiice

What's the lcd screen looking thing facing down?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Bunited2 said:


> niiiiice
> 
> What's the lcd screen looking thing facing down?


It's a tablet with an aviation app. Real men don't use those. Lol

I don't know the guy I just found it on YouTube so you understand what kind of airplane that is. Flying a cub with no electronics and the windows down is nothing short of spectacular.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Well, if Obama can ask the top 2% to pay a "little" extra, I'd like to use the same logic to get them to pay me a "little" extra too.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

skcolo said:


> Well, if Obama can ask the top 2% to pay a "little" extra, I'd like to use the same logic to get them to pay me a "little" extra too.


My concern?:

It's the 1st year of the next 4.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Bunited2 said:


> My concern?:
> 
> It's the 1st year of the next 4.


Thanks for raining on my parade.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

skcolo said:


> Thanks for raining on my parade.


Sorry, but that ain't rain buddy...and it ain't
me doin' it.


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## skcolo (May 16, 2009)

Bunited2 said:


> Sorry, but that ain't rain buddy...and it ain't
> me doin' it.


Don't think of it as 4 years, think of it as 1460 days........ at 11 billion a day.:wallbash:


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

cabinetsnj said:


> I am most concerned about hiring a new employee that is reliable and a good worker.


Good luck on that one, buddy.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm jumping on the bandwagon and saying goodbye to licenses, permits and insurances.

Then I will be able to do all these jobs for people who don't want those things.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I'm jumping on the bandwagon and saying goodbye to licenses, permits and insurances.
> 
> Then I will be able to do all these jobs for people who don't want those things.


Funny thing really. The fact that I'm a licensed and insured makes it easier for others to take away from me. Lol

The guy with no insurance usually doesn't get sued. The guy with no license has nothing for the state to take away.

Weird really.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Oconomowoc said:


> Funny thing really. The fact that I'm a licensed and insured makes it easier for others to take away from me. Lol
> 
> The guy with no insurance usually doesn't get sued. The guy with no license has nothing for the state to take away.
> 
> Weird really.


That's one thing I always think about especially when I got the $2400 fine from OSHA last year and asked them about the guys who aren't working under a company name and was told nothing happens.

I also like when my insurance agent tells me one reason things are so expensive is because of the guys who don't pay into the system.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Driftweed said:


> This discussion belongs in a new thread...
> 
> I hear the "get licensed or get out" tirade alot. Thought this forum was for contractors who do quality work to discuss ways to improve or perfect their craft, and discuss other trade related stuff.
> 
> I did not know this was a union shop. If I'm that evil just ban me.


I will tell you exactly why we frown upon unlicensed "contractors" who work under the table.

We pay for taxes, license and permit fees, insurance, bonds. We often must pay accountants, and lawyers. 

Because of these things our rates have to be higher to compensate, so in affect we loose job after job to low priced hacks because we obey the law and they dont.

Maybe you do good work, but many unlicensed hacks do cruddy work and can't be held liable for fit because of a lack of contract or any paper trail and cash pay. This gives us all a bad name.

I am glad to hear you are getting your license, but do not delay!


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## nEighter (Nov 24, 2008)

what worries me the most is the money junkies and terrorist banksters who are looting the world economy and their paid off govs enforcing austerity measures on the populations.

And WWIII.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

the whole license =good, no license =hack attitude doesn't quite fly in my book.

where I am, for what I do-there is no state license.
what there is-------is a hodgepodge of different,licenses,certificates,registrations etc. run by various counties and municipalities-with virtually no enforcement.

In a 30 minute radius from my home- there are potentially dozens and dozens of different municipalities all with different licensing requirements.

the situation is improving somewhat as more and more municipalities eliminate their building departments and turn it over to the county.
Currently I maintain licenses in 2 counties and several municiaplities
HOWEVER
the municipal license trumps the county license
so------ in many cases I can be licensed to work on one house-but the immediate neighbor is in another municipality where I might not currently have a license----so I guess I am a cool working on one house- but I would be a hack to work next door doing the exact same thing, LOL

BTW-PERMITs are an entirely different thing,yet again!

Stephen


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Stephen H said:


> the whole license =good, no license =hack attitude doesn't quite fly in my book.
> 
> where I am, for what I do-there is no state license.
> what there is-------is a hodgepodge of different,licenses,certificates,registrations etc. run by various counties and municipalities-with virtually no enforcement.
> ...



So everyone where you work does what you do because of that system? If that's the case then I see nothing wrong with that but if there's contractors in your same area of work who have all the license's then that there is a issue. Your using silly excuses to justify not paying license fees. 

Its silly I have to pay for 300+ cable channels when I only watch 5 different channels but I pay it. Clearly licenses are much more important than cable channels because without licenses you can't pull permits, hold valid liability insurance and pay taxes as your not meant to be doing the work without the license in the first place. There's no excuse or way out of it because I'm sure others are doing it the right way.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

skcolo said:


> Don't think of it as 4 years, think of it as 1460 days........ at 11 billion a day.:wallbash:


Well, since you put it that way....I guess I 
could look at it as 8,760 beers. (one 6 pack a day,
I've cut down substantially!).


:cool2:


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

ryanshull said:


> .......
> We pay for taxes, license and permit fees, insurance, bonds. We often must pay accountants, and lawyers.
> 
> Because of these things our rates have to be higher to compensate, so in affect we loose job after job to low priced hacks because we obey the law and they don't.....


Wow look at you! I have reformulated your business
worth to 'a newer Chevy Pickup, 2 goats, 8 chickens
and 2 roosters'....you've earned it after that post.

PS Your phone just bleeped.


:cool2:


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> I honestly don't know any GC's that make that margin. Most are thin margins and just getting by. Things are very competitive.....hence the conversation.


 Margins are tight for people that hire the best subs to do quality work. Margins are sweet for guys that care only about their profit.

Where I am, we have a lot of wealthy clients who retire here from far away regions. They roll in, buy a piece of land, and ask for advice on a GC. The guy who sold them the land hooks them up with his buddy (see previous post). Once they have been here a little while, they find us.....and I have to hold my tongue about the hackery that they have paid good money for, just so I don't make them feel bad.

I am constantly faced with the decision......$8,000 in the budget for a roof. Hire the best and pocket 625...or hire a "looks good from my house, last long enough till the current owner sells" guy and pocket 2,500. 625 barely covers my overhead and the time making sure the roof goes on right.

Just got a new client had a $2mil custom built for him and I am shocked and horrified by what they paid for. THAT is dishonorable hack $h!t. 

The house we just built, we had to knowingly outbid these monkeys by 20% and earn probably $25 an hour after all was said and done just to show them we mean business. The house is a testament to fine american craftsmanship. But these "licensed" __________'s will keep filling their bank accounts with ill-gotten gains. 

I would say 75% of these "established" guys around here do the same thing. Charge 25% more, and do 35% less. The license don't make the man. Period.

Sometimes, it just gets you down....plus my house was broken into, ransacked and robbed yesterday while I was trying to do the right thing....so I'm in a foul mood.........sorry.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> ..plus my house was broken into, ransacked and robbed yesterday .


That sucks, hope to never experience that.


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Margins are tight for people that hire the best subs to do quality work. Margins are sweet for guys that care only about their profit.
> 
> Where I am, we have a lot of wealthy clients who retire here from far away regions. They roll in, buy a piece of land, and ask for advice on a GC. The guy who sold them the land hooks them up with his buddy (see previous post). Once they have been here a little while, they find us.....and I have to hold my tongue about the hackery that they have paid good money for, just so I don't make them feel bad.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I get what you're saying.


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

Oconomowoc said:


> Funny thing really. The fact that I'm a licensed and insured makes it easier for others to take away from me. Lol
> 
> The guy with no insurance usually doesn't get sued. The guy with no license has nothing for the state to take away.
> 
> Weird really.


only in america.... and then get away with murder.


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Margins are tight for people that hire the best subs to do quality work. Margins are sweet for guys that care only about their profit.
> 
> Where I am, we have a lot of wealthy clients who retire here from far away regions. They roll in, buy a piece of land, and ask for advice on a GC. The guy who sold them the land hooks them up with his buddy (see previous post). Once they have been here a little while, they find us.....and I have to hold my tongue about the hackery that they have paid good money for, just so I don't make them feel bad.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying about the "license don't make the man" but I hope the numbers you used for the roofing example are made up. Too much risk and no reward for $625.00 IMO. One call-back and you're working for free.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Windwash said:


> I get what you're saying about the "license don't make the man" but I hope the numbers you used for the roofing example are made up. Too much risk and no reward for $625.00 IMO. One call-back and you're working for free.


Oh he's plenty serious. Lots of guys around here happy to make $500 a job.


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Margins are tight for people that hire the best subs to do quality work. Margins are sweet for guys that care only about their profit.
> 
> Where I am, we have a lot of wealthy clients who retire here from far away regions. They roll in, buy a piece of land, and ask for advice on a GC. The guy who sold them the land hooks them up with his buddy (see previous post). Once they have been here a little while, they find us.....and I have to hold my tongue about the hackery that they have paid good money for, just so I don't make them feel bad.
> 
> ...





BamBamm5144 said:


> Oh he's plenty serious. Lots of guys around here happy to make $500 a job.


Your probably right but wow.

If my math is right for this business model then $500,000 in sales would leave about $39,000 after materials and subs. If the overhead was $14,000 (way low I think for 1/2 mil volume) there would be $25,000 left over for salary, etc.. Is that right?

Is there any business that is sustainable at these numbers?


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

tedanderson said:


> Licensing isn't easy in some states such as Maryland.
> 
> For the most part, our process is somewhat of a tangled catch-22 where you are expected to be in business before you apply for your license- YET you aren't supposed to be conducting business without it.
> 
> ...


 Ted- I am curious about the $1400 for a $10,000 bond over 2 years.
Did that cover you for the entire state?

Here, I have a bond for summit county $10,000 @ $80/year- but it is only good for work the county has jurisdiction over- . the various municipalities have their own bonding requirements.

then in the county to my south, if I recall- the county doesn't require a bond( but still requires us to be licensed and to pull permits- but the major municipality there DOES require a bond(and license and permits)

It's a cluster [email protected]# of a system- but $700/year for a bond that covered you EVERYWHERE in the state might well be a bargain here-IF there was enforcement behind it. Recently I pulled a permit for a slate project on a large church downtown. Initially I went to the wrong entity to pull the permit and was graciously sent to "the other guys" 4 blocks away for the permit. The church was located 2-1/2 blocks away from both those offices and so far I have yet to see any kind of an inspector in that entire county, LOL.

truth be told- permitting and licensing here has ZERO to do with building quality in my opinion- it's REALLY about income tax. The various municipalities want to collect income tax on the work you do in their jurisdiction and permits are how they try to track this activity. Very easy to do work in 20- 30 different municiaplities here in a given year- but almost impossible to sort out what you owe in income tax to 20 different cities.
stephen


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Windwash said:


> Your probably right but wow.
> 
> If my math is right for this business model then $500,000 in sales would leave about $39,000 after materials and subs. If the overhead was $14,000 (way low I think for 1/2 mil volume) there would be $25,000 left over for salary, etc.. Is that right?
> 
> Is there any business that is sustainable at these numbers?


No and that's why after a year or two they close up and the former owner goes to work for someone who is "ripping people off".


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Making sure I write 2013 on my checks.


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## cabinetsnj (Jun 10, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Making sure I write 2013 on my checks.


I will probably have that problem.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Windwash said:


> I get what you're saying about the "license don't make the man" but I hope the numbers you used for the roofing example are made up. Too much risk and no reward for $625.00 IMO. One call-back and you're working for free.


If he's getting many callbacks, fire the sub, problem solved. You do 5 or ten of them hands off and get a callback on one........doesn't sound too bad to me.


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## ryanshull (Nov 1, 2012)

Windwash said:


> Your probably right but wow.
> 
> If my math is right for this business model then $500,000 in sales would leave about $39,000 after materials and subs. If the overhead was $14,000 (way low I think for 1/2 mil volume) there would be $25,000 left over for salary, etc.. Is that right?
> 
> Is there any business that is sustainable at these numbers?


 Idk where you pulled those numbers, but
Your math is obviously wrong then, eh? Maybe he also does more than sub roofs once in a while.....


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Windwash said:


> I get what you're saying about the "license don't make the man" but I hope the numbers you used for the roofing example are made up. Too much risk and no reward for $625.00 IMO. One call-back and you're working for free.


 Those numbers were just theoretical, but sometimes that's the way it plays out. I don't live in a world where I write my own ticket. I just moved here and am trying to establish a reputation for unsurpassed quality and real value. 

We make our money on our own work and try to take a reasonable cut off any of the subs we have to bring in. Generally we try to hit at least 15%....but it doesn't always work out that way. Considering we sub out as little as humanly possible....we do okay. Never had a callback....cause we spend the money on ONLY the best subs with rock-solid reps who warranty their own work. Call it insurance.

These days it seems like there are 8 morons waiting to undercut you every time you turn around. Being new to the area, the rep has to be earned. That's how I choose to earn it. Do tons more, and better, for the same #.

Definitely been working too many hours for too little for the past couple years.....but only because we are looking towards the future, and give the best we can...no matter what. I'd rather be poor and glorious than rich and hollow. I'd really rather be rich AND glorious.

In the end, I am not a "businessman". I am a craftsman who happens to have his own business. I do this cause I love it. The money is secondary. I struggle with it every day....every day. But, I'm living just fine. 

Perfect example: Shower on New Tile Thread, priced a boring, mid-level, porcelain (client choice) blah-fest as part of large addition (kit, mstr suite, etc.). Added soapstone corner niche, floating bench, curbs, glass inlay, and medallions.......barely any REAL mark-up. Cause when I leave at the end of the day I wanna feel 
.......somethin'. I'm not Donald Trump....never will be, but I sleep well.

I applaud all the guys that have it both ways. Doing spectacular, interesting work and getting paid well for it. It used to be like that for me. It's nice. Someday soon............... Till then.......we grind.


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Till then.......we grind.


Sorry about your place getting ripped off, that
really sucks.

I just talked to a guy yesterday that wants his
parents' place protected, right now they just have
an alarm system.

I have done Industrial/Commercial Security for many
moons, including DOD, Army bases, etc.

For what it's worth if interested and what I have done.

Install cameras around your property, get a cheap
dvr from fry's etc.

Install motion detector(s), not the motion lights
from Home Depot around your house.

I use these modules you can get that:
If a motion detector detects motion can/will trigger 
into these modules and email (to your phone) it can 
be programmed into these modules and send a message
to your phone (smart phone). This module connects to
your home router.

Your dvr connects to your router also.

You get an email, bring up your video and see who's 
around your place.

Grab your Sawzall, leave the job site, go home and 
make them have a 'Bad Day'.

Just a suggestion.


oops, cordless Sawzall (of course).


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks...really. 

I thought about going that route.

It was just a random thing, couple other houses got hit near me. Lowlifes will always exist. Ef em'. 

I have (had) a bunch of guns.....and a big dog (at work with me). I think I just caught my bit of bad luck. I don't sweat those weak, genetic-misfit, cowards when I am home with my son. 

They live in their own hell, I live in paradise. A paradise unencumbered by trip wires and motion sensors. I left NYC so I didn't have to have bars on my windows and beat a thug with a can of Cambell's Soup every time I went to the corner bodega. I want to believe that this was a one-time thing.

I'm still just processing the violation to my sanctuary, so I can't even get my mind off the rage yet. I sincerely appreciate the offer......I may wake up at 3am one night this week and decide to get in touch with you for advice........Thanks!


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## Bunited2 (May 30, 2011)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> ....I may wake up at 3am one night this week and decide to get in touch with you for advice........Thanks!


No sweat Bro, but I usually don't start rolling until
about 6 am pacific...so leave me a message.


:cool2:


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

Keep on trucking to the bank with checks . Starting over is not an option .


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

ryanshull said:


> If he's getting many callbacks, fire the sub, problem solved. You do 5 or ten of them hands off and get a callback on one........doesn't sound too bad to me.


I agree with the sub situation and I used "callback" as a catch-all for anything that could go wrong. Could be the dumpster truck or roofing supplier truck dribbled oil on the driveway or the landscaping/sod was disturbed. Maybe you missed an item on the spreadsheet or inverted it with another item or measured wrong. In a worst case scenario the shingles all start curling on the south side of the house in 5 years and you need to do a warranty repair/replace. In any case, there is no margin for error.

What does "Hands off" entail?


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

ryanshull said:


> Idk where you pulled those numbers, but
> Your math is obviously wrong then, eh? Maybe he also does more than sub roofs once in a while.....


I was just curious how it would play out (moneywise) for a business scenario involving a construction company doing $500,000 in roofing or other subbed out jobs in a business a year.

Here is my math:
$500,000/$8,000 per job = 62.5 jobs
62.5 jobs x $625 (after subs/materials per job cost) = $39,062.50
$39,000 - $14,000 (low guess of overhead not including owners salary?) = $25,000 left over

I'm sure he does more than sub roofing. I've seen the pictures he's posted and it looks like nice work :thumbsup:. Maybe his other work is supporting the bad habit of marking up roofing subs 8%?:whistling.

I used to be "afraid of the the money" like the OP is but not anymore. 

His time and knowledge are worth more $ to others than he realizes.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

I'll bet the op can chime in with a good answer. :laughing:


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## mrtany (Oct 5, 2012)

Trying to survive. Live another year without regrets.


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