# Concrete Counter Top Material



## Jlight (Jan 7, 2008)

As a cabinet maker I am looking to expand into entire kitchen remodels. I have most of the published material on the subject of concrete counter tops, but at $50 a bag for Buddy's mix I just don't see how I can entice people here in the North East to go concrete vice granite. 

I have found sellers of Lehigh's type 1 white portland cement and marble mix, but have not found any Lehigh's type 3 white cement. I don't want to speculate too much on the ingredients of the Cheng's or Rhodes' premix, but I think some white type 3 and marble mix would have me on the right path at about 1/3 the cost.

The question is simply what are you that are making these tops already using?

Has anyone tried type 1 white portland with success?

Has anyone mixed marble mix into quikcrete with any success?

I'm mostly interested in right-side-down molded/wet sanded construction methods where a lot of the cream will be ground off. I understand the type 1 can be soft.

Thanks in advance.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

The only difference between type I and III is set time really. They both cure at the same rate.

I use my own mix that I have come to over trial and error over many pours, and Im not giving it out over the internet.

But I will tell you that I have used type I White many times with good results.

As far as being softer, Im not sure if you would ever notice the minute difference in strengths. And Im not even entirely sure that is accurate. Remember these are countertops. You wont be walking, driving, or doing drag races on them.

I have never used Buddy Rhodes, or any prepackaged mix. The price is ridiculous. The only thing that sells those bags in marketing, not what is inside.


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## Jlight (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks for the info on using type 1 with success. I will give it a try.

But I have two issue with keeping secrets on a forum such as this.

First, concrete is not as popular as it could be, and I'll argue its not as popular as it should be. For every person willing to pour his own, there are more than 20 that would pay you to do it...assuming they knew how nice they were. One manufacture out here in Mass will invite you to their shop and tell you every thing they know on the topic. They have been in business for years and have only gained customers as their product gains popularity. I think you would gain more in sharing tips for success than keeping secrets.

Second, why be on a forum if not willing to share? I'm not questioning your right to be here...just why bother? I ran reactors on ten or more submarines over a span of well over 20 years. The key to success for everyone was and still is sharing ideas. That environment was ridiculously competitive, far more than concrete counter tops. Bottom line is for every person that screws one up, there is a lot of word-of-mouth that they are not worth the investment. You might be able to change that. I'll even add the two people that have published books on the topic are wealthy.


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## Grove Design (Sep 12, 2007)

I have done a few concrete counters- I prefer casting upside down in forms at the shop-(less prep and mess at site) I build forms out of plexi faced 3/4" ply from cardboard templates. The plexi might be overkill, melamine is fine, however the surface achieved is glassy and much cleaner than anything I've tried.

The mix I'm using now (I'm redoing my own kitchen-and experimenting more) is store bought quickcrete-fiber reinforced with 2 cups portland added per 80lb. bag and 2 cups water additive(latex for thinset) which allows for a reduction in water mixing, and properly cured turns out hard, stable, and less prone to pockets/air gaps. I vibrate forms with DA sander, no paper on underside. This is the pressed method, and I have had good results filling the surface pores with unsnded grout/portland mix- applied with silicon float- almost no sanding required when using the plexi.

Store bought components have worked really well-no need for expensive mixes-make test slabs and experiment with amount of additive and portland.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Jlight said:


> Thanks for the info on using type 1 with success. I will give it a try.
> 
> But I have two issue with keeping secrets on a forum such as this.
> 
> ...


Fair enough. Doesnt change my perspective though. The people that invite them to shops and sell books are the ones making money off of their 'day classes'. I dont do that.

You cant take a day class and expect to know how to do it. The same way home depot teaches day classes on tile or roofing. 

The majority of concrete professionals dont want to share the mix design. They come up with it after countless amounts of pours to get their slump, psi, fluidity, and all the other variables that come with concrete, just right. 

Even on the pay monthly site exclusively for concrete countertop contractors, the majority dont want to tell.

Ask me anything else and I will tell you. Just not my mix design.


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## Jlight (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks for both posts. I do appreciate it. 

I do understand your perspective fully. I do think you gain more by making this relatively new concept less risky versus the old tried and true granite. The difference being with granite you know exactly without a doubt what the finished product will look like and frankly, people like that. Most I deal with would rather forgo the really cool washboard if you can't show them one (other than pictures) or guarantee theirs will be exactly the same. I digress. You know this better than I.

I think what is important to me, researching the idea, without any investment to speak of, is the roles of additives. Do I need platicizers, acrylics, water reducers and whatnot? The range of volumes on the additives talked about is damn hard to decipher if you have spent most of your free time learning wood. 

Concrete and cabinets are a match made in heaven for anyone already involved in kitchens and baths. I have more people wanting me to make their cabinets than I can handle. However, I think I can make a better living for myself and family doing the entire job. And to make matters worse, this concrete counter top thing really has a grip on me at the moment. It's fascinating.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Everyone plays in the mud as a kid; some of us just never grow up.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I hadn't realized people were using concrete for their countertops till I saw it on DIYNetwork television this weekend. Pretty cool I say. They also made no mention of the mix they used. Is using concrete for countertops a relatively new technique for you guys?


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