# Carpenter has electrical question



## Localday (Dec 9, 2013)

I'M a carpenter not an electrician, not wanting to bother my electrician on Sunday here goes, I wanna run a circuit in my basement for two freezers, I have some 12-2 and a couple receptacles, can i run both freezers on one circuit? I may put a fridge down there some day too. What size breaker or breakers do I need? The box is a cutler-hammer, thanks


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Maybe.
20.


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

Careful how you exact questions on here not pertaining to your trade. The tradesman get offended and feel you are taking away jobs from them :laughing::laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Those days are gone.........


When you have Internet ,......"the information superhighway"


http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html

http://m.wikihow.com/Determine-Amperage-of-Circuit-Breaker


Punch it in, spit out an answer.....


And yet we still get rudimentary questions....:laughing:

Just saying.....:whistling


B,


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

plazaman said:


> Careful how you exact questions on here not pertaining to your trade. The tradesman get offended and feel you are taking away jobs from them :laughing::laughing:


All I can see is how much I can make when I go to his house and find two freezers and a fridge all on one 20a circuit and I get to charge fixing the problem of a constantly-tripping breaker. :whistling


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## HARRY304E (Jan 18, 2011)

480sparky said:


> All I can see is how much I can make when I go to his house and find two freezers and a fridge all on one 20a circuit and I get to charge fixing the problem of a constantly-tripping breaker. :whistling


Before the entire block vaporises......










:laughing:


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## larry228 (Feb 19, 2009)

it seems a false economy to put two essential appliances on one circuit. the cost to sun two dedicated circuits has to be less than the potential loss when the breaker trips and two freezers full of food thaw out.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Iowa to Illinois ......:blink: gas..........you would really travel that far .......



For this,.......





B,


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

Jesus fellas....a simple 'no' would probably have sufficed. 

Maybe even, 'no,' and 'let me explain why since you're trying to learn,' if you had a little extra time


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Iowa to Illinois ......:blink: gas..........you would really travel that far .......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd just sub it out to Ron....... :laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Oh that was good!".......:clap:...:laughing:


B,


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Oh that was good!".......:clap:...:laughing:
> 
> 
> B,


Then I could take the dollar Leo still owes me out of Ron's check and let Ron chase it instead of me. :whistling


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Maybe is a good answer. I see a lot of new fridges and freezers with amp ratings of under 4. So if they're all new, 12 amps total running. Maybe 80 amps momentary starting inrush if they all start at the exact same moment, which also probably won't trip a 20a breaker. Right 480?


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Run 2 separate breakers...you'll feel better about your world!


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

I'd run 2 separate circuits. Since you have 12/2 already just use it. 20amp breakers. Make sure your using 20amp recepticles also. Your better to be safe than sorry with electrical. You only want to use 80% of the load capacity of circuit. Can't go wrong over killing it.

Edit


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Eric K said:


> ....Make sure your using 20 recepticles also. ....



Why?


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

480sparky said:


> Why?


20amp*



-also take my advice as a carpenter with electrical expirence. Not licensed. "20 recepticles" probably not the best idea.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Eric K said:


> 20amp*
> 
> 
> 
> -also take my advice as a carpenter with electrical expirence. Not licensed. *"20 recepticles" probably not the best idea*.


In this case it's not necessary, but in general there's no rule against putting 20 receptacles on a circuit....or 200....or 2000 for that matter. (and they can all be 15A receptacles, BTW. :thumbup: )


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

jproffer said:


> In this case it's not necessary, but in general there's no rule against putting 20 receptacles on a circuit....or 200....or 2000 for that matter. (and they can all be 15A receptacles, BTW. :thumbup: )


Not sure if its code or not. But I had an inspector make me change a 15a receptacle to a 20a on a 20a circuit. If you plug an electric heater that pulls more than 15 the receptacle could fail. Unlikely it would, but could.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Eric K said:


> Not sure if its code or not. But I had an inspector make me change a 15a receptacle to a 20a on a 20a circuit. If you plug an electric heater that pulls more than 15 the receptacle could fail. Unlikely it would, but could.


Show me a resi heater with a 20 amp cord cap.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Eric K said:


> *Not sure if its code or not*. But I had an inspector make me change a 15a receptacle to a 20a on a 20a circuit. If you plug an electric heater that pulls more than 15 the receptacle could fail. Unlikely it would, but could.


It may be a local code. It's not NEC. When they try to make you do something like that, make them cite the code section you're violating.

EDIT: And I know...some people say "It's easier to just do it than argue about it."

Maybe so, but really there's no arguing to it. They can't just make chit up on a whim, but every time someone takes the attitude "It's easier to comply than to argue" their (the inspector) head grows a little bit more. Sometimes ya just gotta keep 'em in check a little bit.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

In most municipalities around here (Chicagoland area) there is an amendment to the NEC, 20's on 20 amp circuit.

Tom


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

And that's fine. As long as they can show me where it says I have to do what they're saying I have to do, I don't mind at all. I do mind, and have a big problem with the "Technically it's legal.....but if ya don't mind just make the changes I'm wanting" inspectors.

IOW the... "I don't have a leg to stand on. You know it...I know it. But I'm gonna be a whiney pric* if you don't do what I want" inspectors.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I don't recall ever running into that type of inspector, as a matter of fact they have all been the exact opposite. 

Tom


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I've run across my share of Shirt-Pocket inspectors rulings. They say to do such-n-such. I demand a code reference. They say they don't need to give me one, just do it the say I say. So I demand the name and contact info of their boss.

If there's a real variance of the NEC, there's a legal process that must be followed to adopt it. It's usually the AHJ should consult their legal department to verify the amendment would withstand a court case, then a public announcement, followed by comments from anyone who wants to address the issue, and if everything follows through, the amendment is adopted and becomes a law/ordinance.

Without this process, the inspector becomes an expector, and has no legal authority to enforce their own whims and wishes. If the speed limit in town is 40, and the local cop starts writing speeding tickets for people driving 35 because he thinks the limit should be 30, the cop ain't gonna be carryin' a badge long and the tickets should be thrown out.

Same with building inspectors. They are usually NOT the "AHJ", they are just the _enforcement branch_ of the system.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Just a warning, besides possibly overloading your circuit, the money you spend on energy may not be worth it. As I recall in a green building seminar they told us one of the common mistakes people make is when they have a refrigerator or freezer in their basement. After they evaluate it they tell the person something like "Let's see, you're spending $300 a year on energy to keep $20 of meat cold". Unless you're feeding a whole village, you're probably better off buying food as you need it at the grocery store.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Just a warning, besides possibly overloading your circuit, the money you spend on energy may not be worth it. As I recall in a green building seminar they told us one of the common mistakes people make is when they have a refrigerator or freezer in their basement. After they evaluate it they tell the person something like "Let's see, you're spending $300 a year on energy to keep $20 of meat cold". Unless you're feeding a whole village, you're probably better off buying food as you need it at the grocery store.


My beer collection doesn't fit in the kitchen fridge.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Just a warning, besides possibly overloading your circuit, the money you spend on energy may not be worth it. As I recall in a green building seminar they told us one of the common mistakes people make is when they have a refrigerator or freezer in their basement. After they evaluate it they tell the person something like "Let's see, you're spending $300 a year on energy to keep $20 of meat cold". Unless you're feeding a whole village, you're probably better off buying food as you need it at the grocery store.


If I only bought $20 worth of meat at a time, that might make sense. My freezers full. I like to think of myself as an ant, rather than a grasshopper. I plan to survive the hard times, not die in the winter.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Just a warning, besides possibly overloading your circuit, the money you spend on energy may not be worth it. As I recall in a green building seminar they told us one of the common mistakes people make is when they have a refrigerator or freezer in their basement. After they evaluate it they tell the person something like "Let's see, you're spending $300 a year on energy to keep $20 of meat cold". Unless you're feeding a whole village, you're probably better off buying food as you need it at the grocery store.


Sounds like someone has never been to costco, I usually never walk out with less then 200$ in meat.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I have far more money _inside_ my freezer than I have in the freezer itself.

And I sure don't spend no freekin' $300 a month just to run the freezer. He11, my annual 'lectric bill is only $400.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Just a warning, besides possibly overloading your circuit, the money you spend on energy may not be worth it. As I recall in a green building seminar they told us one of the common mistakes people make is when they have a refrigerator or freezer in their basement. After they evaluate it they tell the person something like "Let's see, you're spending $300 a year on energy to keep $20 of meat cold". Unless you're feeding a whole village, you're probably better off buying food as you need it at the grocery store.


Unless you shoot your own meat. I have two deer in my basement freezer fridge. More than $20 worth.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

pinwheel said:


> If I only bought $20 worth of meat at a time, that might make sense. My freezers full. I like to think of myself as an ant, rather than a grasshopper. I plan to survive the hard times, not die in the winter.


O.k but the next Armageddon that comes that wipes out all the grocery stores, if your basement freezer survives it then I guess you made a good choice. If you think it's worth it, that's up to you. But it's something to consider, most people don't think about the energy costs.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I have far more money _inside_ my freezer than I have in the freezer itself.
> 
> And I sure don't spend no freekin' $300 a month just to run the freezer. He11, my annual 'lectric bill is only $400.


That was $300 a year. And I've never figured out how much it actually cost to run a refrigerator for a year. That was just an comparison I heard from a company that does nothing but green building.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> O.k but the next Armageddon that comes that wipes out all the grocery stores, if your basement freezer survives it then I guess you made a good choice. If you think it's worth it, that's up to you. But it's something to consider, most people don't think about the energy costs.


I was raised in the country. We know how to put up food ourselves instead of relying totally on grocery stores. Meats & vegetables can be dried & canned & grown. We know how to hunt, plant a garden, raise livestock & do our own butchering. I'm pretty sure I'll be in better shape than most of those in the city during the next Armageddon.:whistling


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> That was $300 a year. And I've never figured out how much it actually cost to run a refrigerator for a year. That was just an comparison I heard from a company that does nothing but green building.


$50-100/year.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Just a warning, besides possibly overloading your circuit, the money you spend on energy may not be worth it. As I recall in a green building seminar they told us one of the common mistakes people make is when they have a refrigerator or freezer in their basement. After they evaluate it they tell the person something like "Let's see, you're spending $300 a year on energy to keep $20 of meat cold". Unless you're feeding a whole village, you're probably better off buying food as you need it at the grocery store.


A new fridge is about 400kw/y, old one closer to 1000kw/y.

A single PVR set top box can eat up north of 300kw.

In my area in Canadian dollars we are talking about 40-100 bucks a year depending on the fridge.

No where near 300 bucks a year. 

Besides I pay as much for the "delivery fee et al" then I do in consumption.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

pinwheel said:


> I was raised in the country. We know how to put up food ourselves instead of relying totally on grocery stores. Meats & vegetables can be dried & canned & grown. We know how to hunt, plant a garden, raise livestock & do our own butchering. I'm pretty sure I'll be in better shape than most of those in the city during the next Armageddon.:whistling


No argument, that reminds me of guys like this. On the side of the road with a sign saying the end is near. That's our future, when we are all dying and these guys are the only ones left.


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## Localday (Dec 9, 2013)

Talked to my electrician today, he was pretty helpful, I'm gonna run the wires and boxes and he is gonna come tie in for me for a 6pack. Aside from construction I farm and raise hogs and cattle as well as chickens for the eggs, this is why I need freezers and fridges. You ain't gonna buy meat like mine in any grocery store.


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## saynever (Jan 6, 2009)

15's on a 20a circuit is fine. If you read the fine print on the receptacle you will see they are rated for 20a throughput. 

20's on a 15a circuit is the no no. This then allows the potential to overload the 15a circuit with a device that draws more than 80% of the circuit's ampacity.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

saynever said:


> ampacity.


Haven't heard that word in a long time


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

saynever said:


> 20's on a 15a circuit is the no no. This then allows the potential to overload the 15a circuit with a device that draws more than 80% of the circuit's ampacity.


That makes no sense at all. Trust me, it's just as easy to overload a 15A circuit with a 15A outlet. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

saynever said:


> ..........with a device that draws more than 80% of the circuit's ampacity.


Show me a household cord-and-plug connected load that would be considered continuous.


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## saynever (Jan 6, 2009)

out of the 2011 nec (sorry I have not purchased the 2014 code book yet for class).

Sections 210.21-210.23. 

Table 210.21(b)(2) "maximum cord and plug connected load to receptacle" and table 210.21(b)(3) "receptacle ratings for various size circuits".


Section 210.23 (A) (1) "15- and 20- Ampere branch circuits". 

why does the load need to be continuous?

Is it like those 5 and 6 horsepower shop vacs? haha


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

The load doesn't "need" to be continuous. But the 80% rule you were talking about has to do with continuous loads....which, I can only assume, is why 480 made the comment he made.


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## saynever (Jan 6, 2009)

The sections I referenced make no reference to continuous loads. It's states a cord and plug device shall not exceed 80% of the circuit ampacity. It doesn't state whether it is for a continuous load or non continuous load.

The follow section I did not reference for fastened cord and plug utilization equipment I believe states that the load cannot exceed 50% circuit ampacity. So if mr carpenter bolts down his freezers everyone has an even better argument for running two circuits. 

I dunno someone correct me as I must be interrupting the code incorrectly?


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

saynever said:


> The sections I referenced make no reference to continuous loads. It's states a cord and plug device shall not exceed 80% of the circuit ampacity. It doesn't state whether it is for a continuous load or non continuous load.
> 
> The follow section I did not reference for fastened cord and plug utilization equipment I believe states that the load cannot exceed 50% circuit ampacity. So if mr carpenter bolts down his freezers everyone has an even better argument for running two circuits.
> 
> I dunno someone correct me as I must be interrupting the code incorrectly?


OK, but you said:


saynever said:


> 20's on a 15a circuit is the no no. This then allows the potential to overload the 15a circuit with a device that *draws more than 80% of the circuit's ampacity.*


....implying that you cannot have more than 80% on a circuit, which is not accurate.

You are aware that every half of a duplex receptacle is a 15A receptacle? And that just because it is a device with 15A receptacles it is still a 20A feed-thru device? Right?


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## saynever (Jan 6, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> OK, but you said:
> ....implying that you cannot have more than 80% on a circuit, which is not accurate.
> 
> You are aware that every half of a duplex receptacle is a 15A receptacle? And that just because it is a device with 15A receptacles it is still a 20A feed-thru device? Right?




Yes I am aware I even made mention of the 20a feed through in an earlier post. I don't believe it is possible to find a ul listed appliance or tool that sports a standard 15a male plug end which draws more than 12amps. 

However there are devices that come with 20a male plug ends that could draw more than 12amps. They would not fit in the standard 15a receptacle and this would prevent a circuit overload situation hence why I said you can have a 15a recept on a 20a circuit but no 20a recept on a 15a circuit. 

And the sections I refered to limit cord and plug loads to 80% of the circuits ampacity. :blink:


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

saynever said:


> And the sections I refered to limit cord and plug loads to 80% of the circuits ampacity. :blink:


Well, you made it seem like anything over 80% *of the circuit* will overload it. This is simply not true.

If that's not what you meant I'm sorry.


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## saynever (Jan 6, 2009)

According to the nec, any cord and plug load over 80% on a 15a or 20a circuit technically is an overload according to the great book. Haha. Is it actually overloading the conductor? No.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Just a warning, besides possibly overloading your circuit, the money you spend on energy may not be worth it. As I recall in a green building seminar they told us one of the common mistakes people make is when they have a refrigerator or freezer in their basement. After they evaluate it they tell the person something like "Let's see, you're spending $300 a year on energy to keep $20 of meat cold". Unless you're feeding a whole village, you're probably better off buying food as you need it at the grocery store.


So you only buy 20 bucks of meat a year?


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

saynever said:


> According to the nec, any cord and plug load over 80% on a 15a or 20a circuit technically is an overload according to the great book. Haha. Is it actually overloading the conductor? No.


ABSOLUTELY NOT. Are you really interpreting it that way?

210.24 expressly states that a 15A circuit can have a load of 15A, and a20A a load of 20A. 210.23 says _"In no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating."_. The rest of 210.23 is for connected loads with two or more outlets, not total circuit loads.

The whole _"you can't ever load a circuit to more than 80%"_ comes from the urban legend wives tale code book.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

If you can't load a circuit to more than 80% of it's capacity, then I'd love to sell him the copper needed to start a motor. :whistling


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

I think when I brought up the 80% comment it wasn't code related. Just our practice, mainly for lighting circuits where you have a bunch of cans or really big chandeliers.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

beenthere said:


> So you only buy 20 bucks of meat a year?


 was talking basement refrigerators, not the kitchen


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> was talking basement refrigerators, not the kitchen


The basement freezer is for all the other excess frozen items bought.


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## saynever (Jan 6, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> ABSOLUTELY NOT. Are you really interpreting it that way?
> 
> 210.24 expressly states that a 15A circuit can have a load of 15A, and a20A a load of 20A. 210.23 says _"In no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating."_. The rest of 210.23 is for connected loads with two or more outlets, not total circuit loads.
> 
> The whole _"you can't ever load a circuit to more than 80%"_ comes from the urban legend wives tale code book.


I shall admit I was incorrect in my earlier response when I mentioned overloading a circuit by loading a circuit to more than 80% of its ampacity. I had two thoughts going on in my head. 

1) a 20a receptacle on a 15a could allow someone to plug in a device which draws more then 15a. 
2) a 20a receptacle on a 15a circuit would allow someone to plug in a device that exceeds the permitted load of "80% of the circuit's ampacity" for cord and plug utilization equipment.


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## bartstop (Dec 9, 2013)

Eric K said:


> I think when I brought up the 80% comment it wasn't code related. Just our practice, mainly for lighting circuits where you have a bunch of cans or really big chandeliers.


Lighting is considered a continuous load and can't be more than 80% of the circuit ampacity.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

bartstop said:


> Lighting is considered a continuous load and can't be more than 80% of the circuit ampacity.


Not in a dwelling.


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## billgl (Dec 3, 2013)

Remind me never to ask an electrical question on this forum..:laughing:


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## Localday (Dec 9, 2013)

I probably won't do it again


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Show me a household cord-and-plug connected load that would be considered continuous.


what about a space heater on high with the window open?:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> what about a space heater on high with the window open?:laughing:


Abnormal condition.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

realelectrician said:


> what about a space heater on high with the window open?:laughing:


I know this is a joke, but far too many folks, and professional electricians, forget the actual definition of "continuous load".


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Localday said:


> I probably won't do it again


That's a shame. You come to a forum full of professional qualified electricians, you're gonna get a ton of details and code facts, because that's important to us. 
If you are doing work like this for a customer you should be just as concerned with getting it right. I've seen far too many "contractors" hack their way through electrical, plumbing and HVAC claiming "they do it all".


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> That's a shame. You come to a forum full of professional qualified electricians, you're gonna get a ton of details and code facts, because that's important to us.
> If you are doing work like this for a customer you should be just as concerned with getting it right. I've seen far too many "contractors" hack their way through electrical, plumbing and HVAC claiming "they do it all".


They probably didn't realize it was really that complicated. Few things in the trade are truly easy as pie. Maybe a 12-year-old 'of diminished mental capacity' really *can't* understand it.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> I know this is a joke, but far too many folks, and professional electricians, forget the actual definition of "continuous load".


A continuous load is a load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more.

what did i miss? not being smart serious question


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> A continuous load is a load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more.
> 
> what did i miss? not being smart serious question


Maximum current ≠ turning the kitchen lights on for 3 hours.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Maximum current ≠ turning the kitchen lights on for 3 hours.


Not sure what you said here?


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## chewy (May 23, 2010)

realelectrician said:


> Not sure what you said here?


= with a / through it means not equal.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> Not sure what you said here?


Turning on the kitchen light for 3 hours does not make the circuit a continuous load.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Turning on the kitchen light for 3 hours does not make the circuit a continuous load.


I never said anything about a kitchen light. Not sure where you got that from? I was just quoting Speedy where he said most electricians forget what a continuous load is.

Then I said it's "A continuous load is a load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more."

Then I asked what am I missing... on the continuous load definition.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> I never said anything about a kitchen light. Not sure where you got that from? I was just quoting Speedy where he said most electricians forget what a continuous load is.
> 
> Then I said it's "A continuous load is a load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more."
> 
> Then I asked what am I missing... on the continuous load definition.



Very few circuits in a dwelling are dedicated. And of those, exceedingly few meet the definition of a continuous load.

Take your stove. Say it's on a 40A (dedicated) circuit. Now, turn all the burners and oven on to high. Is it continuous load even though you leave it all turned on for 3 hours? No. The burners will cycle on and off.

Freezer on a dedicated circuit? If it runs for more than 3 hours, you left the door open.

Your garage door or sump pump or well might be on dedicated circuits. But they don't run continuously for 3 hours, do they?

Does your electric water heater draw maximum current for more than 3 hours under normal use?

Now, for a general purpose circuit in a dwelling to be considered continuous, _all the loads_ normally connected to it would have to be running at full ampacity for more than 3 hours for the definition of a continuous load. That means_ all _the lights on a lighting circuit can be expected to be turned on for 3+ hours. How many of us actually do that?


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

480sparky said:


> Very few circuits in a dwelling are dedicated. And of those, exceedingly few meet the definition of a continuous load.
> 
> Take your stove. Say it's on a 40A (dedicated) circuit. Now, turn all the burners and oven on to high. Is it continuous load even though you leave it all turned on for 3 hours? No. The burners will cycle on and off.
> 
> ...


I only asked if I have the definition of a continuous load right that I quoted. I'm not talking about scenarios or the one who asked all this that you are explaining.:no:

Simply the NEC definition that I quoted is what a continuous load is correct?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> I only asked if I have the definition of a continuous load right that I quoted. I'm not talking about scenarios or the one who asked all this that you are explaining.:no:
> 
> Simply the NEC definition that I quoted is what a continuous load is correct?


I thought you were asking about what constitutes a continuous load. As Speedy mentioned, many really don't know what it is... they think it's just something that's turned on for more than 3 hours (like your TV during a football game).


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Now you guys are scaring me too! :laughing:


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

realelectrician said:


> A continuous load is a load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more.
> 
> what did i miss? not being smart serious question


And do you consider a space heater in an open window to fit this description???
I don't. 
That was my main point.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> Now you guys are scaring me too! :laughing:


Turning the TV on to watch a football game scares you? :blink:


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Speedy Petey said:


> And do you consider a space heater in an open window to fit this description???
> I don't.
> That was my main point.


Nope I just blurted that out without thinking. All space heaters I've seen are max 1500 watts and that isn't the max ampacity of a 15 or 20 amp circuit.


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## saynever (Jan 6, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> Nope I just blurted that out without thinking. All space heaters I've seen are max 1500 watts and that isn't the max ampacity of a 15 or 20 amp circuit.


A 1500w cord and plug device on a 15a circuit is a "non permitted" load according to the nec assuming 1500W/120v = 12.5a. 12.5a > 12a. 

It won't cause an overload or overcurrent but is technically "not permitted". 

Splitting blonde chairs.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

saynever said:


> A 1500w cord and plug device on a 15a circuit is a "non permitted" load according to the nec assuming 1500W/120v = 12.5a. 12.5a > 12a.
> 
> It won't cause an overload or overcurrent but is technically "not permitted".
> 
> Splitting blonde chairs.


It's not?


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