# What's more important?



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Would you say being a good business man or a good craftsmen is more important?

I have to lean towards businessman. A lot of guys are really good at their trade but lack in business skills. They seem to fail easier. Seems like a good business man can run a successful construction company without ever having to swing a hammer.

Are you better at the business side of things are construction?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Business sense.

You can always _hire_ craftsmen.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

You must be bored:laughing:

I'll take business man. Being a craftsman has little to do with success IMO.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Well if you are a one man show it has a lot to do with it.


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

Definitely business man! A good business man that's a hack will do far better than a great tradesman with no business savvy.

... This is where I'd usually pick on Mike's Plumbing, but I'll let him off easy tonight. :w00t::laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

FYI: I have no problem picking on you Spruce.:laughing:

Leo: Hmmmm, yeah, I guess.

The thing is, and this is just my opinion, but I feel like being a craftsman is the bare minimum. I've said this before but quality is what should always be traded for money.

I see what you mean though.

Don't get me wrong though..........I'm still a hack.:laughing:


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

Turn about is fair play, I suppose, Mike. :thumbsup: Just don't hurt my sensitive feelers, ok?:shutup::blink::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

A. Spruce said:


> Turn about is fair play, I suppose, Mike. :thumbsup: Just don't hurt my sensitive feelers, ok?:shutup::blink::laughing::laughing::laughing:


You sensitive tonight? Are you spotting?:laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Geez, this forum is dead tonight. I'm watching Dr Doolittle (the original with Rex Harrison) with my kids. 

Somebody start a cool thread.....please:laughing:

Mike


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> FYI: I have no problem picking on you Spruce.:laughing:
> 
> Leo: Hmmmm, yeah, I guess.
> 
> ...


I'm an OK businessman, I am an excellent craftsman.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> ...........
> 
> Somebody start a cool thread.....please:laughing:
> 
> Mike


OK.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

I used to think that me as a GC needed to be more hands on. 

Now I believe without business sense there will be no projects to be hands with. 

Business is hands down my number 1.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

If it's a small artisan company, meaning it consists of a master, journeyman and a apprentice than absolutley craftsmanship. If the company is bigger than it's all about the business man.


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## KEPC (Jan 13, 2010)

Henry Ford use to say, "hire people that are smarter than you"

i tend to agree with that...


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

KEPC said:


> Henry Ford use to say, "hire people that are smarter than you"
> 
> i tend to agree with that...



Smarter people wouldn't do the work we do! :laughing:


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## cork-guy (May 1, 2010)

A. Spruce said:


> Smarter people wouldn't do the work we do! :laughing:


In some sad way this is true, but something tells me most of us aren't suit and tie office folk. :shutup:


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## shesaremonclus (Nov 24, 2008)

if they are smarter than me they would have there own firm


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I'd have to say: Businessman. Most of the guys I know are great craftsman who made the transition to businessman. For those that don't for whatever reason, they usually become employees. I had a couple of great guys who had no desire to become adept at the business portion and own their own companies. They were perfectly satisfied working for someone else and not having to deal with the stress and responsibilities of owning a business.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

CRAFTSMAN. I can hire all the business men I want. They come out of university with BS degrees. Dime a dozen.

Can't find quality tradesmen anywhere. And here's this weeks tip - it's going to get worse. If you have the skills there's tons of work for the rest of your life.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm a two man show----For me Business--then craftsman-----If nothing is sold--my skills are looking out the window.

I ran a bigger company many years ago---In the latter years most of my efforts were marketing and sales---and training---I'd say it's easier to hire skilled staff than find someone who has any business sense.

I like the hands on work and don't put as much effort into the business as I should---But I can sell.

---Mike---


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## EMINNYS (Nov 29, 2010)

I have seen a lot of projects that were not done too well, and then when I asked the homeowners "who was the contractor"....The answer is usually one of the bigger (apparently successful) local contractors.
With that said I would say that if someone is really good at marketing or taking risks, they can still be successful. For smaller businesses or sole propreitors I think you had better be really good at both.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Given the current economic conditions, to actually make a profit and grow a business requires a decent business mind. Craftsmanship just isn't going to do it.

I think the answer, quite honestly, may be both. This economy requires us to be at the top of our game.

Mike


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Yes you need both. Craftsman first, business man second. Anyone can balance a cheque book. :whistling


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

I would have told you 100% that craft was the most important thing for most of my early career. I would not be where I am without having had that focus.

But I've grown very slowly, and made a ton of mistakes--a few of which nearly sank me.

The hard pill to swallow, for me at least, is the realization that no matter how good you are at what you do (the craft) you're still replaceable. The world is full of good tile guys, excellent carpenters, etc. etc. etc.

To be able to ply your trade where you want to, and build the things that make you happy, you have to have the business skill to promote yourself and make what you do profitable enough to be able to keep doing it.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

ChrWright said:


> I would have told you 100% that craft was the most important thing for most of my early career. I would not be where I am without having had that focus.
> 
> But I've grown very slowly, and made a ton of mistakes--a few of which nearly sank me.
> 
> ...


My thanks button is out, you hit this right on the head. I'm surrounded by some really awesome craftsman in my demographic. Only a few are busy and it's not because of quality craftsmanship because that's in excessive supply right now.

Mike


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> My thanks button is out, you hit this right on the head.............


I'll thank him for ya.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

ChrWright said:


> I would have told you 100% that craft was the most important thing for most of my early career. I would not be where I am without having had that focus.
> 
> But I've grown very slowly, and made a ton of mistakes--a few of which nearly sank me.
> 
> ...


Very true. I know that I am very good at the hands on stuff. I feel confident than I can detect a roof leak, properly fix the leak and be fully confident in not worrying about it. I also know that if I am busy doing that, I can not make the business grow. When I think of bigger construction companies, they all seem to have one thing in common. It seems that the owner is no longer involved in the physical work. Yes, he may stop by and do something for an hour or two but most of his time is spent in his office, on sales calls, in meetings and etc.



Mike's Plumbing said:


> My thanks button is out, you hit this right on the head. I'm surrounded by some really awesome craftsman in my demographic. Only a few are busy and it's not because of quality craftsmanship because that's in excessive supply right now.
> 
> Mike


Since we are in the same demographic, I agree. The busy ones are the ones who market. The ones who are mad at the ones who are busy and don't understand why they are, do not do any marketing and I am sorry to say it but rely solely on referrals. Maybe that is my point of view because I know I cannot get two or three roofs a week just based off referrals. Wish roofs needed to be done every year. That would be neat. Now I am just rambling. :whistling


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Katoman thinks that businessmen are a dime a dozen. CRWright thinks tradesmen are a dime a dozen. Both are correct, but within certain constraints. 

Just as several classes does not a tradesman make, so a degree does not a businessman make. There are plenty of both that failed to succeed in the real world. 

There is a difference in perspective between the businessman and the tradesman, it's tough for the tradesman to make the transition. The businessman works for "good enough" the tradesman works for "perfection". The difference between the two is oftentimes the difference between success and failure. In high end work there is a successful business model involving "perfection" but only a few really do this type of work though the ego's of almost all tradesmen insist they could and should be doing this kind of work. 

For most successful builders who work in the middle of the quality range, their customers won't (and shouldn't) be buying Rolls Royce's and won't and shouldn't be buying Rolls Royce construction projects. For some reason many tradesmen think they should give them Rolls Royce for the price of Chevy. These guys don't do very well. 

Bottom line, for most guys, is time to complete the project. If Bill completes 2 $50,000 jobs per month and Mike completes only one, even though Mike's work is much better, Bill is the more successful business and Bill is the one who will continue working and growing.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

thom said:


> ChrWright thinks tradesmen are a dime a dozen...


No, that's an over simplification. 

Excellence in craft is the starting point--a required starting point for success in the environment we now live and work in IMO.

My people work for perfection every day--it's what our reputation was built on. But if we don't generate enough new work, and that work isn't profitable, we will not long survive.

That's bad for all of us, including our clients.

Growing and maintaining a healthy, financially rewarding business is the best way to ensure you can satisfy the needs of your clients, your employees, and your family.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Someone should start an apprenticeship program/course for carpenbuis.

Should be about a seven year apprenticeship. When you're done you would be both a carpenter and business man.

Mmmmm........ a whole new trade?

We could have electrobuis guys, plumbuis guys, masonbuis guys, etc. The old trade names would become obsolete.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Would you say being a good business man or a good craftsmen is more important?


The smaller you are the more it's about being a good craftsman, the bigger you are the more it's about being a good businessman.

As you grow large it makes no difference if the leader knows how to install better then the workers, in a small company it makes all the difference. 

In a large company the leader can't spend time installing, even if he's the best, it's counter productive.

In a small company the leader is leading by example when it comes to the craft.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

If you read Dan Kennedy's books, he does a pretty good job explaining. Especially "No B.S time management for entrepreneurs" and "No B.S business sense in the new economy". He points out that if you want to be successful as an entrepreneur. You need to become an expert in marketing. Marketing is the one thing that you probably can't hire someone to do for you. You can hire someone to do the physical work, you can even hire managers. But you won't find an expert in marketing who knows enough about the field you are in to come work for you. So that part is left open for you, the owner/entrepreneur. 

Compared to the time spent, lots of money can be made writing sales letters. I forget how much he makes, close to $1000.00 an hour, but he is at the top of his game. None the less, there is not an editor, technical writer, sports writer, or any kind of writer who can make the amount of money that can be made writing sales letters. So think about how you want to spend your time? Tool bags on? Or focusing on marketing for your company?

I still think you have to put your tool bags on every now and then to keep in touch with your trade. But while you have your tool bags on, you are not making as much money as you could be. There are plenty of people out there who can do the tools part, or practically any other part of your business for you.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Definitely "businessman" first. Yes, as a one man operation, you better be damn good at your "craft"...but if you're not good at "business" it won't matter how great you are at the craft. :no:


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## FHS (Apr 24, 2010)

I would have to be a good business man first, but you better be able to follow through on the craftsmanship. I consider myself good at both. My little company is on the verge of expansion, my problem is finding someone that i trust to do the quality of work that I (not nessicarily my customers) Demand. I am sometimes over critical of my and others work. I am currently working on finding at least one guy that i trust to do the work for us. My little brother works for us and is great help but has only been working the trade for a little over 6 months. He is slowly being trained for the pretty stuff. We seem to pick up 2 jobs for every one that i complete so we will have to see where the road takes us. Wish me lluck.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I have an uncle who many consider to be an absolute master builder. Even the young guys acknowledge his accomplishments at some of the greatest projects in the area.

Guess what? He is dead in the water. He doesn't have the business sense that the competition now holds and has lost his footing...big time.

Right now we have in our trade an abundance of tradesman, some quality, some hacks, some in the middle. I don't care how big or small you are, if you can't market your wares you are doomed.

Also, and make no mistake about it, being busy is NOT the same as being a business man. Anybody can get work, anybody can keep busy. The guy that makes a solid profit and can grow in this economy is a business man.

Many great craftsman will die broke, I would say most of them.

The 3 largest home builders in Wisconsin build a crappy home, yet they are the most busy. 

And like Chris said and I have said all along. Quality and craftsmanship is not a rare thing, not by any stretch. It's the bare minimum and really not worthy of a conversation. If you can't produce a quality product you have no business being in business in the first place.

I've had to reinvent myself 3 times now and all 3 times the adjustments I made were with business. My quality never changes. Had I not adjusted to the "new" economy, I would out of work.

Mike


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

J F said:


> Definitely "businessman" first. Yes, as a one man operation, you better be damn good at your "craft"...but if you're not good at "business" it won't matter how great you are at the craft. :no:


The last GC I worked for never had a tool belt on in his life, yet he ran a successful company for at least 25 years. He did all his own estimating and ran the office with the help of a secretary. The field work was left to me to do or manage.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

A. Spruce said:


> The last GC I worked for never had a tool belt on in his life, yet he ran a successful company for at least 25 years. He did all his own estimating and ran the office with the help of a secretary. The field work was left to me to do or manage.


He left the quality to yo Spruce.......smart business man:thumbsup:


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Craftsman first here. I have enough business sense to stay ahead of the 'marketing' curve and stay busy. I stay booked months ahead with website and referral leads. I can't say I'm much of a businessman because I'll stay poor but I have enough work and money to keep doing what I love and that's enough for me. :thumbsup:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

KennMacMoragh said:


> If you read Dan Kennedy's books.


 
:thumbsup: I think I own 15 of them. I just got a new one of his to take with me on vacation at the end of the month. Very good series of books, probably the most valuable information any business owner can assimilate is in his stuff. His wealth attraction book I've read 3 times now. :thumbsup:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

What is his best book? I never heard of him?

I enjoy reading I'd like to check it out. 

Mike


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## Osito (Mar 4, 2008)

A GOOD business man can sale his craft, the rest will speak for itself. If you don't get in the door you will never show off your craft.


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> What is his best book? I never heard of him?
> 
> I enjoy reading I'd like to check it out.
> 
> Mike


I first heard Dan speak in the mid-90s. His "Magnetic Marketing" program taught me A TON about marketing, direct response, offers, etc. You'd especially like it as he features a plumbing company as a case study in that program (I'm pretty sure it's still available.) 

He's done a lot of work with small service businesses and it shows.

Two other books of his I really like: "The Ultimate Sales Letter" and "The Ultimate Marketing Plan."


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

J F said:


> Definitely "businessman" first. Yes, as a one man operation, you better be damn good at your "craft"...but if you're not good at "business" it won't matter how great you are at the craft. :no:


If you are the best at your craft you won't need to be a good business man, the customers will throw money at you. :whistling


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Ok, joking aside, it is important to be business savy enough to run a successfull company. No argument there.

But it also depends on how large is your business, and most importantly why are you doing this?

Are you in business to make money? Or are you in it for the love of the craft? Two different motivations. 

If all I wanted was to make money I would not be doing what I'm doing.

Yes, you need to make money, but for me that's not the motivation. I do it 'cause I love to build things. 

And not trying to be melodramatic, but on my tombstone I would rather have "here lies a master carpenter" than "here lies a successfull businessman"

Each to their own. Today you do need both but look at why you're doing what you're doing and focus on the road you want to travel.


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## Vision Custom (Jan 13, 2009)

Business first. If you are a great craftsman, you will get work, but what if you are injured, or have to take time away for family emergency?

A sound business will have at least a chance to survive, with properly running systems in place.

For me, this is my motovation, and has been for a while. I can't physically do what I could do even a couple years ago, and it really opened my eyes. For the last 18-24 months, I've been trying to become a much better businessman and supervisor, because I know it will allow my company to survive and hopefully thrive.

My first lesson in this was just because I do the work doesn't mean the price is less. If I need to have time off, it needs to get done, and I need to still make money after hiring someone to do it.
I've had to really focus on schedules, pricing, sales, networking ets., to allow me a chance at achieving what I ultimately plan to do, which is to own a company, that has independant operational capabilities, and value.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

ChrWright said:


> I first heard Dan speak in the mid-90s. His "Magnetic Marketing" program taught me A TON about marketing, direct response, offers, etc. You'd especially like it as he features a plumbing company as a case study in that program (I'm pretty sure it's still available.)
> 
> He's done a lot of work with small service businesses and it shows.
> 
> Two other books of his I really like: "The Ultimate Sales Letter" and "The Ultimate Marketing Plan."


Thank you for the info. I'm going to look into that and buy one. The more education the better. I never stop.:laughing:

Mike


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> :thumbsup: I think I own 15 of them. I just got a new one of his to take with me on vacation at the end of the month. Very good series of books, probably the most valuable information any business owner can assimilate is in his stuff. His wealth attraction book I've read 3 times now. :thumbsup:


Yeah, I think you were the one who suggested him at first, that's why I started reading some of his stuff. He is a very intriguing author, I want to read all his "No B.S" series books. The "No B.S. Marketing to the Affluent" is next on my shelf.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Man, I should write a book. I have the afluent fighting over who's getting me next. No BS, learned how to do that in life. Never read no book. :whistling


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

katoman said:


> Man, I should write a book. I have the afluent fighting over who's getting me next. No BS, learned how to do that in life. Never read no book. :whistling


You must be gifted cause I have to work my a$$ off for it 24/7


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

katoman said:


> Ok, joking aside, it is important to be business savy enough to run a successfull company. No argument there.
> 
> But it also depends on how large is your business, and most importantly why are you doing this?
> 
> ...


Damn you with that voice of reason! :w00t:

I agree completely, of course. Like you I wasn't in it for the money, yeah, the money was important, but as I've posted countless times, I never took a job for money alone, it was because it was work I wanted to do for people I wanted to work for, and it came at a fair price. :thumbsup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Business sense before craftsmanship...seems a no-brainer to me.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

A. Spruce said:


> Damn you with that voice of reason! :w00t:
> 
> I agree completely, of course. Like you I wasn't in it for the money, yeah, the money was important, but as I've posted countless times, I never took a job for money alone, it was because it was work I wanted to do for people I wanted to work for, and it came at a fair price. :thumbsup:



I'm in it for the money....lots of it. If i'm gonna trade 3/4 of my life to work I better dam well get paid a sh$$ lot of money. If I was in it to work I would just punch a time clock.

Mike


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

I think this concept is different for a plumber or electrician. The first guy I worked for as a apprentice was very succesful he was a finish carpenter and could care less about business. His work spoke for itself and he never tried to sell anything. He was booked solid, pictures of his work were in magazines. It was only a three man show so I guess this could be construde as a unsucessful business to some.


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## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Thank you for the info. I'm going to look into that and buy one. The more education the better. I never stop.:laughing:
> 
> Mike


Al the plumber...

http://www.dankennedywebsite.com/lesson6.htm


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> I'm in it for the money....lots of it. If i'm gonna trade 3/4 of my life to work I better dam well get paid a sh$$ lot of money. If I was in it to work I would just punch a time clock.
> 
> Mike


Don't mistake "not working for money" to mean working for free. What I mean is that I learned early on that taking a job because of money alone was a surefire recipe for problems. When I went to the "rule of three", life became much easier and I was a much happier camper.
1 - want to do the work.
2 - want to work for the customer.
3 - money was satisfactory for the scope of work.

This doesn't necessarily work for all trades, granted, but it's something to keep in mind for having a relatively pain free life as a tradesman/businessman.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Yeah, I think you were the one who suggested him at first, that's why I started reading some of his stuff. He is a very intriguing author, I want to read all his "No B.S" series books. The "No B.S. Marketing to the Affluent" is next on my shelf.


I think that was the first one of his books I read. It not only verified a lot of my own beliefs, but reinforced them and help me grow in the right directions. That book alone probably made me a minimum of $50,000 the year I read it. I still remember reading that book on the beach in Puerto Vallarta and was one of the few times I came back from a vacation actually looking forward to going back to work, just so that I could implement many of the theories in that book.

I'd say a large portion of that book will be totally perplexing and cause the average contractor to stutter and spit in denial of what's in there. It goes against the grain of the typical tradesman that they'll find it very hard to agree with.

If you haven't read it yet, put his Wealth Attraction book on your list.




Mike's Plumbing said:


> What is his best book? I never heard of him?
> 
> I enjoy reading I'd like to check it out.
> 
> Mike


Since I know you a bit, I would say you wouldn't go wrong with any book of his you bought. You're similar to me in regard to business and you're already on his wavelength by what you do now, so you'll benefit from anything he has you pick up.


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## jmacd (Jul 14, 2009)

Good Craftsmanship is being a good businessman.

When it is all said and done, doing the job correctly and to specifications set by the customer is all you have in the end. That alone could be enough to grow a successfully business. 

I say this because so many don't do this and make up for the lack of quality with more marketing. You have to do the marketing and the quality.

That doesn't address any of the other aspect of running a business that are not quality or marketing, those you have to have a good business sense.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> I'm in it for the money....lots of it. If i'm gonna trade 3/4 of my life to work I better dam well get paid a sh$$ lot of money. If I was in it to work I would just punch a time clock.
> 
> Mike


Exactly !!!!!!!!! I'm not spending 3/4 of my life doing something I don't love. I've been fortunate in that I have spent my life up till now building all manner of buildings and finishes.

Wouldn't trade it for all the money in China. You only get to go by once, spend it doing what you love. Whatever that may be.

Mike- to me it's not work. If I won the lottery I would keep doing this.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

katoman said:


> Exactly !!!!!!!!! I'm not spending 3/4 of my life doing something I don't love. I've been fortunate in that I have spent my life up till now building all manner of buildings and finishes.
> 
> Wouldn't trade it for all the money in China. You only get to go by once, spend it doing what you love. Whatever that may be.
> 
> Mike- to me it's not work. If I won the lottery I would keep doing this.


You put words in my mouth, please don't. I can understand if your willing to work for free because you love it but I'm not. I do love what I do, I'm gonna make dam sure I'm getting paid top dollar for it.

It's not about doing doing something you don't love, you just invented that out of thin air.

The fact is when I'm old my body will be shot from working hard. Trading time when life is limited has a value. I'm making sure I maximize it, is there a really any other way to think of it?

It's an oxymorn to think differently. If a person starts a business that means you need to be a business man. Business men make money, that;s the job. The same satisfaction in the actual work can be done working for an employee. You can work really cheap if you want to, you boss will love you for it.

The more money I make the more I love my job, the actual love of work doesn't change.....only profit. This discussion has gotten to the point of rediculous.

Bill Gates loves software but he didn't work for free, instead he built an awesome business. We all have different measuring sticks as to what success means and for me it's to make sure that I make plenty of money. Whether I bring home 100 a day or 1000 a day still requires me to work, why on earth would I settle for 100?

When I decided to start a business and leave the employment field forever I didn't do it so I can love setting a toilet more, I did it for the money. Call me a capitalist, call me a entrepreneur or call me an idiot.....I don't care, the very nature of business is success.

We all have choices in life Katoman. When I decided to go on my own that meant I had to trade time away from my family, time away from hobbies, and time away from life in general. If I'm going to do this it's would be stupid to do it for any other reason other than money. But make no mistake, I love what I do even more when the money comes flowing in like the Colorado river, and when I'm able to invest money, donate money, do things that I would otherwise not be able to do.

Mike

EDIT: I thought more about what I wrote and actually I love work more. It's no longer work for me, I enjoy it.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I use to love the work. Now it is a job. With all the deadline, trying to beat out the hacks, clients that don't know what they like until the job is completed, the pain of getting a perfect finish....it has sucked all the joy out of the job.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Leo G said:


> I use to love the work. Now it is a job. With all the deadline, trying to beat out the hacks, clients that don't know what they like until the job is completed, the pain of getting a perfect finish....it has sucked all the joy out of the job.


That's an honest answer, and many times very true. Construction isn't all peaches and cream. Those same customers that are a pain in the a$$ will NOT care about you when your 70 years old and walking around with a cane.

That same customer is trying to maximize his/her wages no different than us. One of the worst mistakes I ever made in this business was feeling bad for customers and not charging enough because of it. After years of going back to the same houses I began to realize that it's stupid not to charge the most I possible can. Poor people are the worst, they waste money like it's going out of style. Looking back I should of taken their last dollar because the fact of the matter is they are just as broke now as they were back then. The only difference is I felt bad for people who really didn't deserve it.

Business is our only responsibility as business owners. Maximize the living sh## out of it and retire with style cause sooner or later......like Leo said, it's just a job. Anything else is just a fantasy we tell our selves to feel good about the reality of it.

Mike


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

So to owners of these Dan Kennedy books ; which one do you recommend be read first?

I found the Al the plumber story to be annoying. Although I would always remember the name, I personally would be against calling him.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Bam, here is part 1 of a video series with D Kennedy. On Youtube he has 12 in a row for the series.

Last night I listened to all of them. Take your time tonight and listen to all of them. It's very rare when so called experts have no fluff, this guy doesn't. 

I like the guy. Check this out and see what you think.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Mike - didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Maybe my misread. I thought you were saying it is just work as opposed to a love of what you do.

No worries. :thumbup:


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## BradingCon (Dec 17, 2010)

I tend to agree very much with most everything Mike's Plumbing has said regarding this issue. I, too, believe that being a good businessman is more important than being a good craftsman (not at all implying that being a good craftsman is not important.) 

Being a good business man encompasses so many things: marketing, sales, tight financial controls, customer service. All of these things, that if not done well, could really hamper a business or make it fail all together leaving the master craftsman with no work to do. 

Someone said a quote once that stated that you can be the best craftsman in the world but if you cannot market and sell you will be the best craftsman that noone has ever heard of (or something to that effect.) I tend to agree with this statement.


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## jason. (Aug 18, 2010)

The easy answer of course would be that both are important. I give more importance to being a good business man because it is something that is hard to really learn as it requires a personality/lifestyle change. Being a good craftsmen can be learned through experience and working on the projects acquired by being a good business man. If you are a good craftsmen it will be difficult to show your work and how it is superior to your competitors if you are not a good business man.


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