# whats the secret?



## Oconomowoc

I'm running out of time


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## J F

Are you branding yourself _at all?_

1) Truck professionally lettered/logo'd
2) Professional looking business cards
3) Logo'd tshirts/caps/jacket
4) Website
5) Yard signs

This is all very easy stuff to do nowadays, and pretty inexpensively, but so few new guys give it much thought.


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## swartzj81

Yes i have business cards,1 truck magnet (other magnet blew off somewhere) thats about it. im not really a marketing guy as for i dont know how to.


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## J F

J F said:


> Are you branding yourself _at all?_
> 
> 1) Truck professionally lettered/logo'd
> 2) Professional looking business cards
> 3) Logo'd tshirts/caps/jacket
> 4) Website
> 5) Yard signs
> 
> This is all very easy stuff to do nowadays, and pretty inexpensively, but so few new guys give it much thought.


Sorry, left off the chart showing what will happen if you do the above things...












































Notice how professional _my_ chart looks.


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## Oconomowoc

Here is what the second mailing looks like. I didn't color it in so I could show the overlay of what happens on round 2. 

"I"(jobs) overlaps and grows but look at time "T" it extends doesn't it?

Now look at WOM. Lol, see how it grows as a result of direct mail? You see, it's similar to compound interest on a stock investment. It's like getting growth for free.


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## swartzj81

haha must have taken a trade school course on chart makin


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## swartzj81

thanks guys for taking you time to give me advise. much appreciated


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## J F

J F said:


> Are you branding yourself _at all?_
> 
> 1) Truck professionally lettered/logo'd
> 2) Professional looking business cards
> 3) Logo'd tshirts/caps/jacket
> 4) Website
> 5) Yard signs
> 
> This is all very easy stuff to do nowadays, and pretty inexpensively, but so few new guys give it much thought.





swartzj81 said:


> Yes i have business cards,1 truck magnet (other magnet blew off somewhere) thats about it. im not really a marketing guy as for i dont know how to.



You don't have to be a "marketing guy" to present a professional image. :no: Lots of help available through the net.

Keith at http://www.kbkdesign.com/Pricing_page.html has worked with a lot of us here. Good stuff.

Vist Print and GotPrint have been used by a lot of guys here, too (myself included). Both sites will design stuff for you.

http://www.vistaprint.com/

http://gotprint.net/

There are tons of sites that will design a logo for you, with multiple designers presenting their work and you choose the one that fits you best.


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## Oconomowoc

Alright, things are getting interesting now. This chart shows 3 mailings. Look what happens now! Future WOM is growing. Remember the time line "T", that growth you see is FUTURE growth, it hasn't happened yet but it will. This is why money trumps everything. 

Anyhow, if we look again at the postcard (direct mail)or we see again we get a slight bump in the incidents "I". That because people are slowly getting use to you, they remember you and you are now branding. You are also capturing people who saw the first card in March but finally in December they are ready. By the 3rd card you are fresh in their heads. 

But what if that's not enough? What if you still need to grow "I"(jobs) at a faster rate? 

That's the next chart.


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## J F

J F said:


> rut-ro, here it comes. :laughing:
> 
> Start him off with baby steps Mike, please for theluvagod. :laughing:


Told ya. :laughing: 

The great fun is Mike is typing and drawing so fast and furiously, he doesn't see the posts in between his. It's a great time to make fun of him, call his mother names, etc. :laughing:


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## Oconomowoc

Last chart or I'll be in trouble.

Look at this mofo? See how high the incidents "I"(jobs) are? See how big the bands cover on time?

That is the result of QUALITY marketing. That's why MESSAGE is important. 

When we talk about focused efforts and marketing with purpose thiz is the result. That's why one guy can have a multi million dollar corp in 1 year while the village idiot with no clue can't build a business in 20 years.

It doesn't require smarts or talent, it requires reading and letting go of you ego. It requires listening. It requires action. It requires hustle. 

All these things you can do.

Start as JF said and start from square one. I'll explain that for the hundredth time when I get home tonight.

Have a nice day.


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## swartzj81

This thread kindof went off topic though i want to land bigger jobs i have work its just they are not big. They are in and outs pretty much. Week longs you know. Like remodels an attic to a livable room. It easy and pays out but im looking for more employees and bigger projects. I have no problem gettin work its just not the work im looking for. BUT thank you guys for insight on it.


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## Oconomowoc

J F said:


> Told ya. :laughing:
> 
> The great fun is Mike is typing and drawing so fast and furiously, he doesn't see the posts in between his. It's a great time to make fun of him, call his mother names, etc. :laughing:


I'll deal with you later son!


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## J F

:laughing:

Busted. I was gonna start talkin' trash about your kids. :whistling


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## Oconomowoc

swartzj81 said:


> This thread kindof went off topic though i want to land bigger jobs i have work its just they are not big. They are in and outs pretty much. Week longs you know. Like remodels an attic to a livable room. It easy and pays out but im looking for more employees and bigger projects. I have no problem gettin work its just not the work im looking for. BUT thank you guys for insight on it.


It would be nice to know that AHEAD OF TIME before I whip out my dam Sharpies.


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## J F

swartzj81 said:


> This thread kindof went off topic though i want to land bigger jobs i have work its just they are not big. They are in and outs pretty much. Week longs you know. Like remodels an attic to a livable room. It easy and pays out but im looking for more employees and bigger projects. I have no problem gettin work its just not the work im looking for. BUT thank you guys for insight on it.


You've got to build your reputation, so people will have confidence in your ability to do those jobs if you don't have a proven track record of doing so.

As posted earlier, it takes time, as there's no silver bullet.


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## J F

Oconomowoc said:


> It would be nice to know that AHEAD OF TIME before I whip out my dam Sharpies.


:laughing: I don't see how you don't have carpel tunnel.


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## swartzj81

sorry i did not see that coming. but it was a good time for us and still helpful for everyuone who is following the thread.


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## KennMacMoragh

swartzj81 said:


> Ok I see most of you guys are doing very well in the business. My company is getting by but not how I hoped for. I only seem to get small jobs or hacks that want stuff done for next to nothing. and sometime im forced to do the slum jobs to put food on the table. I have been in business for 3 years and have about 7 people loyal to me as great customers and make a fair amount off the referals they give also.
> My question is whats the secret on landing better/bigger jobs. Even an addition would be nice ya know. Not landing these jobs has nothing to do with our work because I never leave a job without a happy customer. I would love to land something worth getting. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


You just explained my story basically. Been in business for about 3 years and still fiddling with little jobs and arguing with people who want it done for about half the cost it should be. Have you thought about business coaching? I'm considering Michael Stone http://www.markupandprofit.com/ Been to a few of his talks, seems to really know his stuff.


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## swartzj81

never heard of business coaching and actually have no desire for it. not saying there a silver bullet to the top but theres an easier way im sure.


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## Oconomowoc

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Pretty sure placing flashing lights along the side of the road is illegal everywhere..


Nope.


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## 480sparky

Oconomowoc said:


> ...... Signs that are taken down each day do NOT have municipal rules like other signs, they can't complain or remove these. ......


Wanna bet?


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## Oconomowoc

480sparky said:


> Wanna bet?


Yep


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## 480sparky

Oconomowoc said:


> Yep


How much?


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## Oconomowoc

See the photo below?

Take one or two of your cards and flip them upside down. Draw arrows with a sharpie pointing at your card. This draws attention.

Be sure and take the other cards and organize them with caution. The surrounding cards around yours need to be the simple ones with no colors etc. The flashy cards need to be on the other end of the board.

This worked so well I've had customers call me for work and laugh at how clever it was. People notice.


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## Oconomowoc

480sparky said:


> How much?


Sorry, I'm just not interested in this discussion. It's just irrelevant to me. I live in a highly affluent and highly regulated town. A town where I have spent my life and a town where I have spent much time down at the city hall.

I can do this. Maybe not in your town but I don't live in your town. All I can do is tell you what I did.

If you can't have lights than put up an orange flag off your kids bike. As far as sign size? I know what I did, and it worked. The cops loved it, the neighbors loved it.


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## Oconomowoc

There's lots more I did with my cards. Lots of things. I'll continue this another day. It's 11:20 and I'm tired.


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## asevereid

Keep goin', I am really interested in what other ideas you have. These are great.
:thumbsup:


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## Driftweed

ocono: your a genius.

feed me moar!!

I love thinking outside the box.


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## donerightwyo

My wife would be pissed if I used up all the art supplies for some dinks on the internet:laughing:

I think the OP is missing the boat if he doesn't at least ponder Mikes advice.


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## 480sparky

Oconomowoc said:


> .........
> I can do this. Maybe not in your town but I don't live in your town. All I can do is tell you what I did........


That's my point.

What is legal in your town may get the OP a nifty fine.

I know for a fact several cities around me have specific ordinances about flashing lights on signs.


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## Driftweed

480sparky said:


> That's my point.
> 
> What is legal in your town may get the OP a nifty fine.


don't know till you try. At worst you'll get a stern warning and told not to do it again.


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## 480sparky

Driftweed said:


> don't know till you try. At worst you'll get a stern warning and told not to do it again.


Maybe. Maybe not.

Sometimes it depends if the Code Enforcement Officer had a good cup of coffee in the morning.


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## Oconomowoc

I'm pretty good friends with the police. 

The signs are NOT in the street, they are in the grass or in somebody's yard. I simply walked up to the HO, if I needed to, and told them I'm trying to build a business and I asked him/her if they could help my business by letting me. I've never, ever, had a HO deny me that. Most people love to help you if you treat them well and treat them like a human being. It's just not a problem.

If for some reason it is then use orange cones, a flag, Christmas lights, a balloon.....the list goes on.

The point of all of this is to maximize your efforts. Maximize your opportunity.


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## CarrPainting

Ok well you just lit a fire under my ass. I'm pretty non marketing kinda person... So, tomorrow, take over the billboards... Anything else? Oh and work on that other sign idea, I'll shoot an email to my logo lady tonight!

Oh I managed to get various size high quality vinyl stickers when I did the lettering on my truck. They range in size.. From about 1' x 6" to 4"x3. I have like a dozen.. Their made for exterior, and are kinda permanent.. Ideas?


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## swartzj81

thank you for all the advice. its helpful and you have some great ideas. 

yesterday went really weird for me though looking for better remodels and bigger more payin jobs then i have gotten throughout my 3 years. i got a phone call from a large GC in the area for subing kitchens to me. i had no idea these people knew my name. he said hes seen my work and offered me a pretty nice penny to complete some projects for them. so i may have to go with it but my gut feeling is not so great about there opperation but in some cases it will help me expand my name case i can wear shirts with my name and number and so on.


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## 91782

swartzj81 said:


> thank you for all the advice. its helpful and you have some great ideas.
> 
> yesterday went really weird for me though looking for better remodels and bigger more payin jobs then i have gotten throughout my 3 years. i got a phone call from a large GC in the area for subing kitchens to me. i had no idea these people knew my name. he said hes seen my work and offered me a pretty nice penny to complete some projects for them. so i may have to go with it but my gut feeling is not so great about there opperation but in some cases it will help me expand my name case i can wear shirts with my name and number and so on.


3 years?

Considering that 9 in 10 businesses fail, that it takes 3 yrs for the avg contractor to show a "profit", and 5 yrs before most banks will loan to a SB, you are doing above the curve.

You know what most young contractors lack? Patience.
You know what most old contractors lack? Youthfulness.

Take lots of pictures, its gonna be a helluva fun ride!


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## Sir Mixalot

Oconomowoc said:


> You have to get your name in front of more people it's as simple as that. Once you have your name in front of the masses you then use repetition.
> 
> What you have is a marketing problem, that's almost always the case. Marketing is everything.


Exactly! :thumbup:


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## ryanshull

When these guys mention more/better marketing, they are well aware you have enough customers, but want the bigger jobs. Don't dismiss what they are saying as if it doesn't apply. 

If you are doing fifty jobs a year, and If only one of those fifty potential customers has a desireable job for you, you need to reach fifty times as many people as you are currently marketing to so you can simply turn down 49 out of 50 jobs. (Theoretical of course)

If you have several months of work lined up, hire a few more quality hands, cuz no-one is going to hire you to build a home with a two man crew. In the mean time, using your profits from these extra laborers, start these suggested ad campaigns. These guys know what they are talking about. The only people you should discount are the ones who discourage or don't believe you can do it.

What you have is a marketing issue, so attack the market as others have suggested. If you don't like marketing, or for some reason find it dishonest or whatever, you have to change your ideas, or you will either be stuck in this rut, or loose your business altogether. In other words if you don't like marketing, then you don't like being in business.

A good reputation is what you have according to your post, you have to let more people know about it.

Btw, what is your business name? A good name goes a long way as far as the image of your company.


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## ryanshull

Damn that was a windy statement. Hope it makes some sense.


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## jgar

I noticed a local builder that keeps a small sign in front of his house, under a bay window. I picked up on his sign for 2 reasons. Every few weeks he changes the sign with one of a different design but same logo. In the bay window he keeps is a stuffed animal dog. Two -three times a week he changes what the dog looks like. Sometimes it has a wig, or a tux, tie, hard hat, etc. Now I always look to see what the damn dog is wearing. :blink:


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## Oconomowoc

jgar said:


> I noticed a local builder that keeps a small sign in front of his house, under a bay window. I picked up on his sign for 2 reasons. Every few weeks he changes the sign with one of a different design but same logo. In the bay window he keeps is a stuffed animal dog. Two -three times a week he changes what the dog looks like. Sometimes it has a wig, or a tux, tie, hard hat, etc. Now I always look to see what the damn dog is wearing. :blink:


That's pretty clever actually. Lol


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## swartzj81

company name is simple JS Construction dont really have a catch phrase or anything. I am going to get more involved in the marketing with some of the great ideas you guys gave me. The reason I only have 1 employee is im affraid if I run out of work the I make people starve. Though I understand that 2 men cant build a home alone. Well we could but its impractical. As for the marketing Im thinkin of getting some brochures and putting them in some local pizza shops. I do alot of work for a few of them and they are good friends that own them so they wont mind me stealing some counter space.


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## ryanshull

swartzj81 said:


> company name is simple JS Construction dont really have a catch phrase or anything. I am going to get more involved in the marketing with some of the great ideas you guys gave me. The reason I only have 1 employee is im affraid if I run out of work the I make people starve. Though I understand that 2 men cant build a home alone. Well we could but its impractical. As for the marketing Im thinkin of getting some brochures and putting them in some local pizza shops. I do alot of work for a few of them and they are good friends that own them so they wont mind me stealing some counter space.


I myself only keep 1 or 2 employees generally as well, and for similar reasoning, so I am at a similar fork in the road, but I have no ambition towards building homes, and very little for additions.

I have decided to focus on kitchens, baths, and custom interior work, so my plan ( with the added advantage of reading blogs and posts from experienced people on this forum ) is to attack the market in a big way in the area I want to work in. 

I liked the dog thing. I have a store front on my shop that has been covered with craft paper since I rented it. Why haven't I used that as a huge billboard? Duh! That is a tool I have that could be an exelent window display of my work, and I uavent been using it............ I may do some mailings, definetly time for a website other than facebook. 

I'm putting things in motion just how I said in my prior post. Right now, I have a good reputation, and several months of work lined up. I have nice polo shirts on the way for a more professional look. Time to hire some more GOOD employees. IF we do run out of work, oh well, they were looking for a job when they found me. It would suck, and I never want to have to lay anyone off, but I am willing to take that risk in order to grow a company that may employ several more in the future. It won't take long to take my o&p % from their work and slam it into marketing hardcore in my area of focus. 

Will I still have to take some fences or repair work? Probably for a while......... Will I still have ups and downs? Almost assuredly.

Did you know that the word entrepreneur came from the French meaning risk taker? That's what we are -risk takers. If we weren't, we would go get a stable job and forget this headache! Stay positive, and keep your goal in your sights. Whether it happens or not, hopefully I have fun and make a living along the way.


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## donerightwyo

Mike, what time of year do you think is best to start a postcard campaign? Do you think the effort is wasted around the holidays?


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## Oconomowoc

donerightwyo said:


> Mike, what time of year do you think is best to start a postcard campaign? Do you think the effort is wasted around the holidays?


I can tell you exactly what happens because I've documented all my campaigns. 

I need to data from my computer and I'm out with my wife eating and Christmas shopping. I'll get back to you tonight.


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## cueball707

This is my secret and its no secret. You have to work your ass off!!! All my contractor friends say that I'm lucky, my response is that hard work makes luck! The formula for success is be on time + be on budget= happy customer . A happy customer is one that offers you a checks as soon as your done, a happy customer will sing your praises to all their friends (if you ask them too), and a happy customer will use you again even if your bid is not the lowest. 

You can thrive in this economy if you do those simple things.


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## Bunited2

Oconomowoc said:


> That's pretty clever actually. Lol


Actually it is, wonder how it would work with a
blow up doll?

:cool2:


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## dakzaag

Oconomowoc said:


> .
> 
> 
> View attachment 83318


Mike, I gotta hand it too you, you married way up...

Nice job, bet you marketed yourself to her the same way you market your business.:clap:


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## cabinetsnj

swartzj81 said:


> Ok I see most of you guys are doing very well in the business. My company is getting by but not how I hoped for. I only seem to get small jobs or hacks that want stuff done for next to nothing. and sometime im forced to do the slum jobs to put food on the table. I have been in business for 3 years and have about 7 people loyal to me as great customers and make a fair amount off the referals they give also.
> My question is whats the secret on landing better/bigger jobs. Even an addition would be nice ya know. Not landing these jobs has nothing to do with our work because I never leave a job without a happy customer. I would love to land something worth getting. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


Maybe sure you are doing high quality work.

Also, you should network more. The more people you know, the more likely people are likely to ask you to do work for them.

But you may not have the right in. If you want bigger jobs, you need to get to know people who run businesses or want to build apartment buildings.


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## cabinetsnj

cueball707 said:


> This is my secret and its no secret. You have to work your ass off!!! All my contractor friends say that I'm lucky, my response is that hard work makes luck! The formula for success is be on time + be on budget= happy customer . A happy customer is one that offers you a checks as soon as your done, a happy customer will sing your praises to all their friends (if you ask them too), and a happy customer will use you again even if your bid is not the lowest.
> 
> You can thrive in this economy if you do those simple things.


Great advice. However that only goes so far. If you are doing small jobs for poor people, they will probably introduce you to friends who want things done cheaply. Sometimes a contractor can do a good job, but never get the referals they are after.


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## Oconomowoc

cueball707 said:


> This is my secret and its no secret. You have to work your ass off!!! All my contractor friends say that I'm lucky, my response is that hard work makes luck! The formula for success is be on time + be on budget= happy customer . A happy customer is one that offers you a checks as soon as your done, a happy customer will sing your praises to all their friends (if you ask them too), and a happy customer will use you again even if your bid is not the lowest.
> 
> You can thrive in this economy if you do those simple things.


While I do agree with you there's many people who do great work and work hard who die broke.

Hefty profits and solid retirements from business needs a road map.


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## Oconomowoc

dakzaag said:


> Mike, I gotta hand it too you, you married way up...
> 
> Nice job, bet you marketed yourself to her the same way you market your business.:clap:


Yeah, I definitely married up. Can't believe she puts up with me. Lol


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## Oconomowoc

donerightwyo said:


> Mike, what time of year do you think is best to start a postcard campaign? Do you think the effort is wasted around the holidays?


I'm home now, give me an hour or so to dig out my folders back when I did this.


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## Bunited2

Oconomowoc said:


> I'm home now, give me an hour or so to dig out my folders back when I did this.


Does that mean you're going to produce pics
again of graphs and pie charts, drawn on 
napkins you used in the restaurant with 
Mrs Oconomowoc?


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## Oconomowoc

Bunited2 said:


> Does that mean you're going to produce pics
> again of graphs and pie charts, drawn on
> napkins you used in the restaurant with
> Mrs Oconomowoc?


Possibly. Lol


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## Oconomowoc

Ok, slight problem.

My fear is I'm going to give you false data unless I sit down and properly analyze what I did. The issue is I ran a coupon during the holidays while also direct mailing post cards. Basically i need to make sure I split the results and account for sales/calls to the rigjt marketing tool. I can do that it's just gonna take me a little while.

I had a printer make a few thousand coupons and had them run them through a machine that stamped a special code on each individual coupon so I could track results based on neighborhood demographics. See the attached photo? It was a special deal I ran and it supplied me with a ton of customers which I later turned into referrals through another coupon. Sounds complicated but once I have a customer I use them as a tool for more work with friends and family. Although it did well postcards were better. 

Anyhow, give me some time and I'll pull out my sharpies and see what I can help you with.


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## Oconomowoc

By the way, what type of work do you do?


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## donerightwyo

We do ground up building, remodels, light commercial try to stay to the custom work but in a rural area you do what you have to. We've hit kind of a slump and was thinking of using the postcard to help drive people to the new website, focusing on kitchen and bath remodeling. 

I don't want you to waste a bunch of your time. I was just curious if you thought with the holidays it would be a wasted effort.


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## Oconomowoc

donerightwyo said:


> We do ground up building, remodels, light commercial try to stay to the custom work but in a rural area you do what you have to. We've hit kind of a slump and was thinking of using the postcard to help drive people to the new website, focusing on kitchen and bath remodeling.
> 
> I don't want you to waste a bunch of your time. I was just curious if you thought with the holidays it would be a wasted effort.


Well that's pretty easy to pull those customers in actually. I'm not worried about wasting my time, eventually somebody can use my information. If not it keeps me sharp just repeating it. 

What I'm looking at right now shows me that the holidays are just fine but I need to explain why. Give me an hour.


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## Jaws

donerightwyo said:


> We do ground up building, remodels, light commercial try to stay to the custom work but in a rural area you do what you have to. We've hit kind of a slump and was thinking of using the postcard to help drive people to the new website, focusing on kitchen and bath remodeling.
> 
> I don't want you to waste a bunch of your time. I was just curious if you thought with the holidays it would be a wasted effort.


Sounds like our business models are almost identical. :thumbsup:


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## Bunited2

donerightwyo said:


> .... I don't want you to waste a bunch of your time. I was just curious if you thought with the holidays it would be a wasted effort.


It's ok, he doesn't mind....in fact I think he 
should work through the night on it, otherwise 
he'll just lay on the couch with his smart phone
and the 'remote visual display (tv) controller' in
his hands.

Not my words, his.


:cool2:


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## donerightwyo

Jaws said:


> Sounds like our business models are almost identical. :thumbsup:


Imagine that, next thing your gonna tell me is you work with your dad and brother:clap:


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## Jaws

Im sending out three thousand post cards written with a Sharpie and offering a 25% discount. 

Then Im change ordering the chit out of them. 

" Oh, you want the base boards grouted in? Heres a change order with a 100% mark up"


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## Jaws

Kidding :laughing::clap::thumbup:


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## Oconomowoc

Lol


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## ohiohomedoctor

Try different color sharpies and let us know which color works the best.


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## donerightwyo

Jaws said:


> Im sending out three thousand post cards written with a Sharpie and offering a 25% discount.
> 
> Then Im change ordering the chit out of them.
> 
> " Oh, you want the base boards grouted in? Heres a change order with a 100% mark up"


You Texans always gotta be out doing us piss ants. 


But seriously, you think that will work, I'm all ears.:whistling


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## donerightwyo

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Try different color sharpies and let us know which color works the best.


A man without a web presence might want to listen up:whistling


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## ohiohomedoctor

donerightwyo said:


> You Texans always gotta be out doing us piss ants.
> 
> But seriously, you think that will work, I'm all ears.:whistling


It would work great as long as you dont value being a decent human or your bbb score or 5 star reviews.


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## ohiohomedoctor

donerightwyo said:


> A man without a web presence might want to listen up:whistling


Oh dont get it wrong I still have a web presence just not a places page. 

Google home remodeling dayton ohio. Im there


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## donerightwyo

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Oh dont get it wrong I still have a web presence just not a places page.
> 
> Google home remodeling dayton ohio. Im there


I know, I know.


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## Bunited2

donerightwyo said:


> You Texans always gotta be out doing us piss ants.
> 
> 
> But seriously, you think that will work, I'm all ears.:whistling


There are zillions of companies that do exactly that,
especially commercial. They out bid everyone to get
the project with the sole intent of making profit off
the change orders.

I actually fully believed Jaws there...that is until he
said he was kidding.


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## donerightwyo

ohiohomedoctor said:


> It would work great as long as you dont value being a decent human or your bbb score or 5 star reviews.


I reckon I don't care to be a dirt bag so I will wait for Mike's advice.:thumbsup:


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## Jaws

ohiohomedoctor said:


> It would work great as long as you dont value being a decent human or your bbb score or 5 star reviews.


He was being sarcastic, as was I


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## Jaws

Bunited2 said:


> There are zillions of companies that do exactly that,
> especially commercial. They out bid everyone to get
> the project with the sole intent of making profit off
> the change orders.
> 
> I actually fully believed Jaws there...that is until he
> said he was kidding.


Haevnt read many of my posts then


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

Jaws said:


> He was being sarcastic, as was I


I know, but I had to type something..


----------



## Bunited2

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Oh dont get it wrong I still have a web presence just not a places page.
> 
> Google home remodeling dayton ohio. Im there


Not bad, 1/2 way down on page #1.....would hate
to have to actually type out your whole url though.

Lots of 'O's"


:cool2:


----------



## donerightwyo

Bunited2 said:


> There are zillions of companies that do exactly that,
> especially commercial. They out bid everyone to get
> the project with the sole intent of making profit off
> the change orders.
> 
> I actually fully believed Jaws there...that is until he
> said he was kidding.


I was laughing from the first sentence, John is far above that. He would never write on 3000 postcards with a sharpie........he would make the help do it.:laughing:


----------



## Bunited2

Jaws said:


> Haevnt read many of my posts then


Yes, I have.....was kidding.


:cool2:


----------



## astor

Can't remember his name or handle,but there was a marketing guru in here, I believe a plumbing co owner, sending thousands of fliers with "$79 drain cleaning" slogan. He had even quite a bit of info in his website,anyone remembers?


----------



## Oconomowoc

Donerightwyo

Alright, I'm sitting back trying to figure out a simple way to explain this. It's simple but if you really want that phone to ring and you want quality calls and you want a high percentage of those calls to get closed we have some work to do. I'm not sure you're up to it but I am. This is my favorite subject and I live for this stuff.

It's difficult for me to explain without going off in a tangent. I started thinking about it and my first lesson on this was really my father. I watched as he built a brand extension from an existing brand and became the largest manufacturer of wall panels for the racquetball industry on the planet. It was an interesting thing to watch and I remember how excited he was watching his brand develop. I was a young teenager when this was going on but I remember it like it was yesterday. It's weird actually, talking about it now that he has passed. Never in a million years did I think I would be re-telling the marketing lessons he taught me on brand building.

What I'm about to share with you is the "secret" that doesn't generate sales but rather builds a brand so strong it will outlive you. That's powerful.

So without making this complicated let's begin. Hopefully I can pull this off.

It's gonna take me a while to get this out so feel free to go to.bed and come back another day.

Let's begin


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I am handsome, that is the secret.


Did you ever shave off that mustache?


----------



## Driftweed

Drumroll plz...


----------



## donerightwyo

:thumbup1:I'm ready.


----------



## Driftweed

I'm wiping off my 4 x 8 dry erase board for this one....


----------



## Oconomowoc

Sorry, having a hard time wrapping my head around explaining something important.

It's funny actually, we all get in the habit of thinking our business is nothing more than sales or conversions or ROI or jobs. It's not. That is dangerous to think in those terms. Sure, you can but the result is nothing more than a job. 30 years go by and your dead. 

I like the idea of building a legacy, I think that's what ultimately gives me drive and if you can avoid thinking of your business as a simple device to supply work that moves you into the top 2%. That's why some guys have money and some guys don't. I'm not in a position to determine what guy you are but I can explain how you can obtain the 2%, I can explain how you build a legacy.

That my friend is a 'brand'. 

You asked about sending a postcard during the holidays and the name of this thread is about the "secrets". There's definitely a secret to all of this, well, not really a secret I guess but it's just not something that most do.

You explained to me what your company does and based on what you typed it's basically a company that does everything. No offense but that's a very tough thing to market. Focusing on one thing is where the money is at and where the power is. Fortunately you mentioned kitchens and baths so that's great, that's what I'm gonna work with.


----------



## Oconomowoc

So if your business is NOT simply a device to get sales/jobs what is it? 

The purpose of a business is to "create a customer". Those are not my words but words from a man named Peter Drucker. He was brilliant and you should read every book he wrote. Period!

Another guy on this forum said his business was to work with landlords. He was written off and teased a little bit but be careful, that's a brilliant idea and can be one hell of a powerful business. Why?

Like Peter Druker said "create a customer". That's what the weed guy on here did, he crested a customer. He can be laser focused and guess what? He doesn't have much competition as it concerns "marketing". Understand the difference, marketing competition and labor competition are two very different things.


----------



## Oconomowoc

Believe it or not your business name is irrelevant to what you do with your company. Some guys will disagree but I will hold my ground on this, if your name is "buck snort construction" you CAN build a powerful brand in the kitchen and bath industry. 

I said "brand", put that thought in the back of your head while I switch gears for a minute.


----------



## astor

Sorry to interrupt, but I would be very interested to know what happened the brand your father created, why did you not follow and keep that growing? If it personal or something, never mind,.
I appreciate your postings, really interested and more importantly all have the PASSION for SUCCESS! Without it, nothing would work.


----------



## Oconomowoc

I want you picture a 55 gallon drum filled with marbles. This drum holds thousands of marbles and each marble is say worth about a buck a piece. Pretty cool, you stick you hands in it and all these cool marbles have some sort of value. 

Your business is kind of like that. Right now you do all these things in your business and each job pays about "X" amount (give or take). I mean, you charge say $50 an hour so what matters is you build a deck or build a addition right? Understand this, that can be a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, lots of guys do it and it's ok, but what if you worked the same amount of hours and made $90 instead of $50? Building a brand does that.

So the drum filled with marbles is the same thing. You run your hand through it and swish all the marbles around and they are all the same value, the green ones are no different than the blue ones and the red ones are no different than the purple ones. A job is a job and a marble is a marble.

But what if you were digging around the drum full of marbles and you found a solid gold one? Would you dig for more? Would you give up the others and dig out all the gold ones?

That's what marketing can do, and that's what happens when you have an actual brand. But it's much more than that, it's much more than just a brand. A "brand" is much to simple of a term, we need to dig deeper and discover where the real value is. Everybody has a brand right? Lol, it's pretty silly hearing guys talk about 'brand' and 'branding' but most are just selling blue marbles. That's the brand, it works but the blue ones are only worth a buck.

Moving forward.


----------



## Oconomowoc

astor said:


> Sorry to interrupt, but I would be very interested to know what happened the brand your father created, why did you not follow and keep that growing? If it personal or something, never mind,.
> I appreciate your postings, really interested and more importantly all have the PASSION for SUCCESS! Without it, nothing would work.


He was a partner with 7 others. I wanted nothing to do with that business either. Remember, it doesn't matter what we do for a living what matters is what we get out of it. I love what I do.


----------



## Oconomowoc

FACT: We don't know where in your business you can pull out the gold marbles (the best brand). We have to find that out. We have to do some marketing and spend a little money. Don't worry, we don't need to spend much.

Again, your goal is to "create a customer" just like Peter Drucker said. So let's experiment with kitchens and baths and see if we can find the gold marbles.

At this point you're probably thinking (dam dude, I just want to send out some friggin postcards). Lol, you certainly can but all that will get you is a used Chevy with bald tires. Screw that, let's go for the gold and land the Ferrari. The postcard costs the same. 

Quick story......


----------



## donerightwyo

I'm with ya:thumbup:


----------



## Calidecks

Oconomowoc said:


> FACT: We don't know where in your business you can pull out the gold marbles (the best brand). We have to find that out. We have to do some marketing and spend a little money. Don't worry, we don't need to spend much.
> 
> Again, your goal is to "create a customer" just like Peter Drucker said. So let's experiment with kitchens and baths and see if we can find the gold marbles.
> 
> At this point you're probably thinking (dam dude, I just want to send out some friggin postcards). Lol, you certainly can but all that will get you is a used Chevy with bald tires. Screw that, let's go for the gold and land the Ferrari. The postcard costs the same.
> 
> Quick story......


We want more!


----------



## Driftweed

Ocono is putting on a clinic


----------



## Oconomowoc

What I'm about to explain to you is the most powerful thing your business can have. It moves mountains. It changes industry. Nothing is more important than this. Sadly, not a single time have I ever heard it mentioned on this forum. Not once.

It doesn't mean people are dumb or people are average. Hell, my Dad had to show me or I would never have realized what it meant. If you can grasp this post I'm about to make you will walk away and never be the same. You will never think of your business the same way again and like me, it will keep you up at night and get you up early to start your day.

So read the following words very carefully and very slowly and try to grasp it ok? Gotta grab a Sharpie.


----------



## Oconomowoc

Take a look at the following photo. Think of this as the total market for your services/product. Each piece of pie represents a company and it's market share.










Each company has a piece of the pie and each one has a little different size of the market. When a new company starts up they have to take a piece of somebody's pie and grab it. Sometimes they take it from multiple pieces and one day, instead of 6 pieces (companies) we now have 7. It has no rhyme or reason it's just 7 companies clawing for work and each company is busy trying to take market share away. 

That is what most people do. They can do it for 30 years and earn a living. They can do it for 5 years and quite. Some are good at taking market share and some are not. Some are savy and some are not. Either way, this is considered normal in the everyday construction business. 

Got that?


----------



## Calidecks

Oconomowoc said:


> What I'm about to explain to you is the most powerful thing your business can have. It moves mountains. It changes industry. Nothing is more important than this. Sadly, not a single time have I ever heard it mentioned on this forum. Not once.
> 
> It doesn't mean people are dumb or people are average. Hell, my Dad had to show me or I would never have realized what it meant. If you can grasp this post I'm about to make you will walk away and never be the same. You will never think of your business the same way again and like me, it will keep you up at night and get you up early to start your day.
> 
> So read the following words very carefully and very slowly and try to grasp it ok? Gotta grab a Sharpie.


I keep hitting the refresh button, with great expectations


----------



## Oconomowoc

Gotta make a new drawing.


----------



## Oconomowoc

donerightwyo said:


> Good stuff Mike, the path is becoming clearer or maybe more confusing:blink: I definately am learning:thumbsup: Thanks


We'll have to remedy that. I can draw out with sharpies what that path looks like, how to get it and make it clear. It's much easier than you think. A couple drawings and you'll get this nailed.

Today is pretty busy but I'll find some time either this morning or this evening. Once I draw it out you'll never forget it. Easy as pie.


----------



## Leo G

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I am handsome, that is the secret.


I've seen you. You're not my cup of tea.:laughing: Scraggly beard and all


----------



## cabinetsnj

jgar said:


> I noticed a local builder that keeps a small sign in front of his house, under a bay window. I picked up on his sign for 2 reasons. Every few weeks he changes the sign with one of a different design but same logo. In the bay window he keeps is a stuffed animal dog. Two -three times a week he changes what the dog looks like. Sometimes it has a wig, or a tux, tie, hard hat, etc. Now I always look to see what the damn dog is wearing. :blink:


The purpose of any sign is to get your attention. If a sign fails to get your attentin it doesn't do much good. Don't use a plain old sign for your business, try to come up with something creative.


----------



## jgar

cabinetsnj said:


> The purpose of any sign is to get your attention. If a sign fails to get your attentin it doesn't do much good. Don't use a plain old sign for your business, try to come up with something creative.


You are 100% correct a sign should have some pop. I think this guy uses the dog to keep your attention for a extended period of time.


----------



## jgar

Oconomowoc, this is great stuff!! Thanks


----------



## J F

Leo G said:


> We chatted. My wife was not impressed that the (cute) woman recognized me in the store. :whistling


You didn't explain to her that it was "brand recognition"? :laughing: (chart might help next time).


----------



## Calidecks

J F said:


> You didn't explain to her that it was "brand recognition"? :laughing: (chart might help next time).


He would of been in big trouble if it were brand equity instead


----------



## J F

Yeah, child support probably wouldn't have gone over so well. :laughing:


----------



## Calidecks

J F said:


> Yeah, child support probably wouldn't have gone over so well. :laughing:


Just the cost of doing business, problem is, a kid has to be backed by an18 year warranty:laughing:


----------



## J F

_perfect_


----------



## griz

Californiadecks said:


> ...a kid has to be backed by an18 year warranty....:laughing:



Let me tell you it is waaay longer than 18 years...:whistling:laughing:


----------



## Bunited2

Mike must be at the sharpie factory trying to score
a couple cases of sharpies off the back loading dock.


:cool2:


----------



## Oconomowoc

So when a company decides to change direction and 'create a new customer' the company has to go through a process. And it's this process that ultimately is the spring board to Brand Equity. Brand Equity is where the value is. 

Looking at the above graphical representation of the process what's really happening here? Well, what's really going on is the abandonment process of leaving the old market. You're basically eliminating the competition, I'll explain that with another graph on the next post but before I do let's talk about the 'process' of abandonment which is nothing more than a path to cresting a customer (New Market).

I listed 4 items but there's a whole bunch to choose from, these are just a couple off the top of my head. I mentioned earlier in a previous post that in construction it's much easier to create a new customer than it is in say manufacturing or some other main stream and large industry. In fact, the 'process' in many situations becomes actual inventions like Apple computer.

Apple did exactly what my graph shows. The created a new customer didn't they? I listed 4 sample items but Apple didn't use those, they came up with 'true innovation' such as a touch screen phone using apps etc. They also created an eco system. Regardless, you can see why Apple commands big prices at the retail level and this is exactly what I'm talking about........Brand Equity.

Apple became the red circle and abandoned the old market. 

The 'process' of innovation shown by the red arrow can be rather easy for a contractor. We can simply take a survey and find out what's missing in the market and grow that segment. Or, we can specialize like creating a company that specializes in just concrete countertops. Just remember that it has to be innovative. If it's not innovative what happens? We end up not creating a customer, instead we just end up stealing work from the current marketplace. A race to the bottom.


----------



## Oconomowoc

I've mentioned specializing on here before and some are against it or at least nervous about it. Why? What makes us nervous about narrowing our focus? I'll explain that with the above graphical representation.

The reason why is pretty simple if we break it down.

Looking at the pie chart you can see the 'old market'. The five companies (A-E) represent the current marketplace in say companies that do general construction. But then you start up a company (F), the red lettered pie slice. What happens?

Well, because you lack market presence and you didn't become innovative, and you didn't go through the 'process' of creating a customer you have no choice but to steal customers from the market. That is, steal customers from an already competitive and starving market. (Old market)

In the other chart in the last post I listed the 'innovation process' that you must undergo to create a customer but really the same process is followed by companies that DON'T create a new customer right? The problem of course is you CAN'T have have brand equity.

So yes, specializing is scary when you're forced to steal customers. In fact you can't afford it, you kind of have to do a little bit of everything. You didn't create a new customer so you time is spent stealing customers in a race to the bottom.

You CAN'T be innovative without somehow sacrificing what's important. And obviously that's why we have hacks in the market.


----------



## Oconomowoc

It's as simple as looking at this graphic representation. The new company (F) didn't create a new customer (market) so as the red lines indicate he has no choice but to spend his marketing dollars and efforts on stealing from each company in the old market.

And while he's thinking he's kicking azz in marketing he's really not, he's just stealing. What makes this worse is other companies are starting each day and trying to steal as well. And while you're stealing and the new guy is stealing the current companies are busy marketing also and trying to prevent you from stealing.

Nothing about that is healthy. That is how you die broke. One day many years from now you wake up and say "screw this rat race" and throw in the towel.

----------------

I just saw a TV commercial two seconds ago for a toothpaste called "Pronamel". Very smart. They just abandoned the old market and created a new customer. While everybody else is busy worrying about white teeth and steal away customers from each others this company innovated and went down that process I talked about. That companies customer are people who worry about tooth enamel. 

Is Crest toothpaste a competitor? Nope. 
Is Close-up a competitor? Nope.

You see? They probably knew they couldn't take on the big guys on the 'white teeth' segment. They probably didn't have the money because Crest and Close-up have such a strong 'brand' and 'brand equity' it would be stupid.

Likewise, Crest and Close-up can't take on Pronamel now. That would be dangerous because they would have to abandon the 'White teeth' market.

This is why specializing is so critical. So does specializing need to mean you have to stop what you are doing?

No, it most certainly does not!!!!!!!!

Words like 'innovation' and 'specializing' can also be handled strictly with marketing. Is Pronamel toothpaste really that different than Crest or Close-up? Lol, no, it's probably made in the same factory in fact for all I know it could be a division of Crest used to create a new market and increase market strength.


----------



## Oconomowoc

So let's make the connection between 'Brand Equity' and 'Specializing'.

Ok. Say you're a contractor who does -decks, concrete, roofing-

Hopefully you can see where this can be a problem. If not, I'll explain in detail why. 

Look at the above graphical representation of the famous lubricant called WD40. This company is a really neat company and it's pretty large, it's also a publicly traded corporation.

WD40 has on hell of a Brad Equity. The name has intrinsic value, just mention that word and people not only know what it is but they TRUST it. 

Does WD40 make shoe laces? Do they make couches or mailboxes? No

Could they? Yes

Would it be smart of they made shoes laces? Probably not! Why?

Brand Equity can not be taken advantage of!!!!!!

Ok, breaks down like this. If consumers trust WD40 and it has a valuable brand and brand equity would they be better of making grease for mechanics of shoelaces? Obvious grease because they can take advantage of Brand Equity in the marketplace. They can take advantage of years worth of marketing. Marketing becomes cheaper. That's the power of brand equity.

This is what's known as 'Brand Extension'. 

If WD40 made shoe laces would marketing cost more? Yes. Would the barriers to entry be higher? Yes.

But a good brand extension is smart, making grease would be smarter because they have built in distribution channels on the retail end right?

A customer walks in to a parts store and sees WD40 brand grease and it's sort of half sold already thanks to 50 years of marketing the brand.

Would it make sense to build decks and do concrete and roofing by one company? Probably not

Would it make sense for a deck building company to build gazebos and build a brand extension? Probably could, although I would still stay focused on decks and grow my market.


----------



## Oconomowoc

Good night guys. I'm dead tired.


----------



## Windwash

Ocono: Thanks for taking the time to do this. Excellent read:thumbsup:


----------



## Oconomowoc

Since Godzilla vs Megaguitus is on I'll wrap up this evening with this.....


----------



## Oconomowoc

If you create innovation in your business and it's relevant in the new marketplace, that is to 'create a new customer', do you NEED Craigslist, Angie's list, Service Magic or lead generating companies?

No, of course not. Those are strictly for companies that are fighting and stealing existing customers from the old and very tired market place. That also explains why 'price' trumps quality.

Next.....


----------



## Oconomowoc

While I do some typing take a look at this chart. This was my business before I got serious about marketing. It represents a 3 week period. (M-5) It's not pretty because my business was set up and designed for 4 service calls per day. The blue line is the goal. The green is the customer call. The red is the sales.

See any problem here? I do. First off I wasn't meeting my goals right? Second was I was closing every call (read that as strictly taking anything that came my way). Not good. Third, everything was erratic as hell. I was frustrated and had to do something about it.


----------



## Zewlander

ohiohomedoctor said:


> very nice. We have similar connectors. Came with a camo tent sheet.


Hey Matt, saw your thread on losing your reviews, I know
a couple of the Googler's at my gym. I can either ask them
why and if they know what could be done, or kick their butts?

Although, I know a couple that work at YouTube also (owned
by Google now) and none of them could do anything about
getting me unbanned from YouTube......don't ask.


----------



## Calidecks

tlcarri said:


> What I noticed with all my carpenter friends is this, advertise for one thing in a bad economy, think what is a must for homeowners to remodel. BATHROOMS....I know someone that went from kitchens to bathrooms and was soooo busy. They are quick and easy. advertise that you are lic. and bonded. and insured.
> 
> give them a coupon or discount on a tub or toilet. People love deals, do a christmas special. 10% off if contract is signed by Dec 31 2012. etc....
> 
> 
> good luck:thumbsup:


Just aheads up. California Contractors are forbidden by law to advertise the fact that they are bonded. It could lead the public to believe there is a higher level of protection than might actually be the case.:thumbsup:


----------



## donerightwyo

Zewlander said:


> Hey Matt, saw your thread on losing your reviews, I know
> a couple of the Googler's at my gym. I can either ask them
> why and if they know what could be done, or kick their butts?
> 
> Although, I know a couple that work at YouTube also (owned
> by Google now) and none of them could do anything about
> getting me unbanned from YouTube......don't ask.


Isn't it bunited? I don't get it.


----------



## Zewlander

Californiadecks said:


> Just aheads up. California Contractors are forbidden by law to advertise the fact that they are bonded. It could lead the public to believe there is a higher level of protection than might actually be the case.:thumbsup:


Really? I don't doubt you, but I see 'Bonded' on vans all the
time out here.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

Zewlander said:


> Hey Matt, saw your thread on losing your reviews, I know
> a couple of the Googler's at my gym. I can either ask them
> why and if they know what could be done, or kick their butts?
> 
> Although, I know a couple that work at YouTube also (owned
> by Google now) and none of them could do anything about
> getting me unbanned from YouTube......don't ask.


I would appreciate any effort you placed on my behalf. I need all the help I can get. Maybe if they hear my name enough they will expedite a solution so I can sleep again.

Now we have to know. What did you post on youtube.. :detective: :laughing:


----------



## Zewlander

donerightwyo said:


> Isn't it bunited? I don't get it.


Bunited2 is no longer with us....was feeding branches into
a tree shredder and forgot to let go.

Actually, was using 'Zewlander' in a few places as a user name, 
made a new email: [email protected] yesterday, got onto a 
google adwords forum last night to post about display ads.

Then thought this morning 'I wonder if zewlander.com' is
available, I did a google 1st and it's all over the place.

And

As of today I am now the proud owner of www.Zewlander.com


Yahooooo


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

Zewlander said:


> Really? I don't doubt you, but I see 'Bonded' on vans all the
> time out here.


In Ohio Bonding occurs through a city on a yearly basis or on a job by job basis through our insurance provider. It really is only applicable to govt and commercial jobs.


----------



## Zewlander

ohiohomedoctor said:


> I would appreciate any effort you placed on my behalf. I need all the help I can get. Maybe if they hear my name enough they will expedite a solution so I can sleep again.
> 
> Now we have to know. What did you post on youtube.. :detective: :laughing:


Let's just say my GF was the co star.

My Angel Nicki.










Shown with her parrot 'Ollie'.

The 1st time I walked into the kitchen in her apartment over
3 years ago, the 1st word out of his beak was F_ _ _ _ _ _R!
(you can fill in the blanks), his name for me to this day.

Obviously a good judge of character.

Still don't know if he meant it as a verb or an adjective.


----------



## skcolo

Zewlander said:


> Let's just say my GF was the co star.
> 
> My Angel Nicki.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shown with her parrot 'Ollie'.
> 
> The 1st time I walked into the kitchen in her apartment over
> 3 years ago, the 1st word out of his beak was F_ _ _ _ _ _R!
> (you can fill in the blanks), his name for me to this day.
> 
> Obviously a good judge of character.
> 
> Still don't know if he meant it as a verb or an adjective.


Yeah, but do you really care?


----------



## skcolo

Dang, he's right. I searched youtube and can't find the video anywhere.


----------



## Zewlander

skcolo said:


> Yeah, but do you really care?


Not really.


----------



## donerightwyo

Zewlander said:


> Let's just say my GF was the co star.
> 
> My Angel Nicki.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shown with her parrot 'Ollie'.
> 
> The 1st time I walked into the kitchen in her apartment over
> 3 years ago, the 1st word out of his beak was F_ _ _ _ _ _R!
> (you can fill in the blanks), his name for me to this day.
> 
> Obviously a good judge of character.
> 
> Still don't know if he meant it as a verb or an adjective.


:clap:You see the size of the breasts on that parrot.:clap:


----------



## skcolo

donerightwyo said:


> :clap:You see the size of the breasts on that parrot.:clap:


I love parrots.


----------



## skcolo

Mike's gonna come back and realize the thread went sideways.


----------



## donerightwyo

skcolo said:


> I love parrots.


Somebody should pm DWB, he's gonna miss it cause he just thinks Mikes talking about postcards.:laughing:


----------



## Zewlander

skcolo said:


> Dang, he's right. I searched youtube and can't find the video anywhere.


Ok, just trying to make it sound cool.

Actually we were going from San Jose to Burlingame, up
highway 280 (beautiful drive). Anyway, she was sleepy reclined
in the passenger seat, etc.

Led Zeppelin came on the stereo with 'Going to California'
I quickly cranked on the digital camera and did a recording
of her and the scenery, etc.....she even had a flower in her
hair 'There's a girl out there...with flowers...in her hair'.

It was a perfect video, I got like 353 views, then got the 
dreaded email from YouTube, that I was infringing on 
copyright laws/rules.

Because I named it 'Going to California with Nicki'....with the
music in the background.

They said I infringed on Led Zeppelin....come on.

Closed my account and couldn't make a new account from
that IP address.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

donerightwyo said:


> :clap:You see the size of the breasts on that parrot.:clap:


What parrot?


----------



## skcolo

Zewlander said:


> Ok, just trying to make it sound cool.
> 
> Actually we were going from San Jose to Burlingame, up
> highway 280 (beautiful drive). Anyway, she was sleepy reclined
> in the passenger seat, etc.
> 
> Led Zeppelin came on the stereo with 'Going to California'
> I quickly cranked on the digital camera and did a recording
> of her and the scenery, etc.....she even had a flower in her
> hair 'There's a girl out there...with flowers...in her hair'.
> 
> It was a perfect video, I got like 353 views, then got the
> dreaded email from YouTube, that I was infringing on
> copyright laws/rules.
> 
> Because I named it 'Going to California with Nicki'....with the
> music in the background.
> 
> They said I infringed on Led Zeppelin....come on.
> 
> Closed my account and couldn't make a new account from
> that IP address.


I hear Zeppelin is the strictest of everyone on copyright infringement issues. You should have picked Justin Bieber. :thumbsup:


----------



## Zewlander

skcolo said:


> I hear Zeppelin is the strictest of everyone on copyright infringement issues. You should have picked Justin Bieber. :thumbsup:


Justin Beaver?

If you guys get on one of my sites and pay at checkout,
I'll send you the link to the video on 'Daily Motion', they're
like YouTube in France....they don't care what you post.

BTW, there are panty shots.

You guys are making me proud though, thought 1/2 of you
were queer.


----------



## Zewlander

Californiadecks said:


> A bond is to protect against contractor law violations


Yes, a surety bond.

Was paying it (automatically) for so many years when
I'd renew my license, just forgot about it. In fact I
used the place (conveniently) right across the street
from the CSLB in Sacramento.

I think I misspoke last night though, certain service 
trades are not necessarily bonded, but an individual 
that works at the company is bonded ie; tow truck 
drivers, armored car guy's, etc. 

That is not even the same as a surety bond, just
that the person has passed a background check and
can be (I think) random drug tested.

Happiness is not having to use your Bond, Liability 
Insurance, Commercial Vehicle Insurance, The Lien
Process, or a Baseball Bat.


----------



## Zewlander

Californiadecks said:


> A bond is to protect against contractor law violations


Yes, a surety bond.

Was paying it (automatically) for so many years when
I'd renew my license, just forgot about it. In fact I
used the place (conveniently) right across the street
from the CSLB in Sacramento.

I think I misspoke last night though, certain service 
trades are not necessarily bonded, but an individual 
that works at the company is bonded ie; tow truck 
drivers, armed car guy's, etc. 

That is not even the same as a surety bond, just
that the person has passed a background check and
can be (I think) random drug tested.

Happiness is not having to use your Bond, Liability 
Insurance, Commercial Vehicle Insurance, The Lien
Process, or a Lawyer.


----------



## Zewlander

I think I stuttered.


----------



## Zewlander

Zewlander said:


> ......
> Was paying it (automatically) for so many years when
> I'd renew my license, just forgot about it. In fact I
> used the place (conveniently) right across the street
> from the CSLB in Sacramento......


One would ask 'why would Zewlander go all the way to
Sacramento to renew his license and not just mail the
payment, etc.?'

I had a bloody nightmare back around 1990 with my CA
State Alarm Agent license.

I had mailed in the payment like 1.5 months before it had
expired, I heard nothing from the Dept of Consumer Affairs.
I even checked and the check had been cashed like a 
month before my license even expired.

I called the dept and the 1st twit I talked to said there 
isn't even a record of me having a license in the 1st place.
I think ok, so being in a civilized non-brain dead society
I should be able to send a copy of my license and the 
posted check......nope.

She tells me that all the state computers were changed 
out and some of the records were lost. I'm 'soooo?' well
then I get on with Super #1 and she say's basically too 
bad, get on with Super #2 and that twit was not only a
bigger twit, but actually rhymed with....'twitch'?

Needless to say I was told, there was nothing they could 
do I had to re apply and take the Qualified Mngr test all 
over again was a bit...disturbed?....still disturbed to this 
day (obviously).

After that I would make the ceremonious trip to 
Sacramento, to pay for any licenses in person and get
a receipt.

PS I never even got a friggen' refund either.


----------



## donerightwyo

A few weeks ago a lady called me from a neighboring town. She started out telling about how she had gotten recommended to us by a friend that had had a garage built by us recently. I stopped her short because I was certain it wasn't us. She didn't even miss a beat, she could care less who it actually was. Like Mike said she had no loyalty to anyone, she didn't even have a clue who might be around to call for such a project. 

That is what really got me rolling on the postcard idea, I actually had it somewhat in the works with my graphic designer already. Then Mike gets rollin and he's confirming things I suspected and dismissing other things, it has really helped clear my thought process on the whole deal.:notworthy

I live in such a rural area that I don't even really have to innovate my own ideas. Things that some of you guys are doing just to compete are not even being used here. Mike would have a heyday marketing here:thumbsup:

I have always thought that our reputation and the fact we have been building here since 1976 would be enough. It's not a race to the bottom, but it's a dead even heat. I think that most of the contractors in my area have their work split 50% loyal and referrals, 50% crap shoot( as in it's maybe who ever they called first).

I m going to try to take more of the crap shoot crowd.:thumbsup: I am going to wait until Mike gets done with his lessons though. :thumbsup:


----------



## donerightwyo

Zewlander said:


> One would ask 'why would Zewlander go all the way to
> Sacramento to renew his license and not just mail the
> payment, etc.?'
> 
> I had a bloody nightmare back around 1990 with my CA
> State Alarm Agent license.
> 
> I had mailed in the payment like 1.5 months before it had
> expired, I heard nothing from the Dept of Consumer Affairs.
> I even checked and the check had been cashed like a
> month before my license even expired.
> 
> I called the dept and the 1st twit I talked to said there
> isn't even a record of me having a license in the 1st place.
> I think ok, so being in a civilized non-brain dead society
> I should be able to send a copy of my license and the
> posted check......nope.
> 
> She tells me that all the state computers were changed
> out and some of the records were lost. I'm 'soooo?' well
> then I get on with Super #1 and she say's basically too
> bad, get on with Super #2 and that twit was not only a
> bigger twit, but actually rhymed with....'twitch'?
> 
> Needless to say I was told, there was nothing they could
> do I had to re apply and take the Qualified Mngr test all
> over again was a bit...disturbed?....still disturbed to this
> day (obviously).
> 
> After that I would make the ceremonious trip to
> Sacramento, to pay for any licenses in person and get
> a receipt.
> 
> PS I never even got a friggen' refund either.


It's been 22 yrs man, it might be time to let it go.:laughing: I know where you are coming from though, I wouldn't ever let it go either.

So I went to zewlander.com:blink: What is it? 

How bout more pictures of that parrot?:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## Zewlander

donerightwyo said:


> It's been 22 yrs man, it might be time to let it go.:laughing: I know where you are coming from though, I wouldn't ever let it go either.
> 
> So I went to zewlander.com:blink: What is it?
> 
> How bout more pictures of that parrot?:clap::clap::clap:


I just didn't want anyone to think I was an idiot going all
the way to pay for my license in person. Was just afraid
of what a (uncaring) state worker could do, or not do
which is more important.

Zewlander.com is nothing yet...I just registered yesterday,
it already propagated through the name servers, so I installed
one of the site builders from my hoster, so it doesn't just go
to a stupid defaulted 'you need a website page?'. I may use
it later as a redirect....or?

I have one website now which is critical to go forward with,
if my webgoons get it together by Friday, will be streaming 
on WJR radio in Detroit online this next week.

As far as the additional pics of the parrot?

You're funny!!

I may post another (tasteful) pic, but I don't want to appear
like a 'weirdo' too much!


----------



## Zewlander

Was that you that said you went to Daily Motion and
saw a video of some tail lights?


----------



## Paulie

I went to zewlander.com looking for a parrot and got a blue form.... I guess that's what it was. :blink:


----------



## donerightwyo

Paulie said:


> I went to zewlander.com looking for a parrot and got a blue form.... I guess that's what it was. :blink:


Post#269 he was showing us his parrot:thumbup:


----------



## donerightwyo

Zewlander said:


> Was that you that said you went to Daily Motion and
> saw a video of some tail lights?


Yeah, taillights is not what I had in mind


----------



## Zewlander

donerightwyo said:


> Yeah, taillights is not what I had in mind


I understand, I may put a video up later but I think
the only one I can is the 'Going to California' one.

Sorry, it doesn't involve Ollie the parrot...or oil.

That tail light video is a linked video from one of my 
websites, a few months ago I designed and made a
prototype module, that's installed in my car that will
let me know if I have a brake light, tail light, or a 
license plate light out (a drunkards dream).

I filed and obtained a provisional patent as a retrofit
for cars. My next step is to do a patent search, when
I have the time to re visit the project.

I remembered that's why I didn't have any of the 'good'
video's up anymore, I didn't need anyone happening on
those videos that came from that website.

My main thing these days is to get my main website
re marketed again!


----------



## Paulie

OK, I'm on board now:thumbsup:

I'm a parrot head from way back.

So now I'm intrigued Zewy, hit me with a video link, I need help with my video skills...... way bad as some of the members here can attest. :sad:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

Yeah he sucks.. :laughing:


----------



## donerightwyo

Paulie said:


> OK, I'm on board now:thumbsup:
> 
> I'm a parrot head from way back.
> 
> So now I'm intrigued Zewy, hit me with a video link, I need help with my video skills...... way bad as some of the members here can attest. :sad:


Paulie, did you you get a good look at the parrot? It's a REALLY nice parrot, don't you think?:thumbup:


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

If parrots age like dogs that bird was old as chit...


----------



## Munanbak

This is a really great thread and a good read. Thanks Oconomowoc!


----------



## Zewlander

Paulie said:


> OK, I'm on board now:thumbsup:
> 
> I'm a parrot head from way back.
> 
> So now I'm intrigued Zewy, hit me with a video link, I need help with my video skills...... way bad as some of the members here can attest. :sad:


What kind of video link?


----------



## Zewlander

ohiohomedoctor said:


> If parrots age like dogs that bird was old as chit...


Actually her bird Ollie is about 5 years old....in
people years.

So Matt, I am going to the gym in a bit, maybe I'll
see one of the Google Goons there.


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

Zewlander said:


> Actually her bird Ollie is about 5 years old....in
> people years.
> 
> So Matt, I am going to the gym in a bit, maybe I'll
> see one of the Google Goons there.


Good luck. Thanks for your help..


----------



## lawndart

Great information Mike!!


----------



## cabinetsnj

Oconomowoc said:


> Ok, slight problem.
> 
> My fear is I'm going to give you false data unless I sit down and properly analyze what I did. The issue is I ran a coupon during the holidays while also direct mailing post cards. Basically i need to make sure I split the results and account for sales/calls to the rigjt marketing tool. I can do that it's just gonna take me a little while.
> 
> I had a printer make a few thousand coupons and had them run them through a machine that stamped a special code on each individual coupon so I could track results based on neighborhood demographics. See the attached photo? It was a special deal I ran and it supplied me with a ton of customers which I later turned into referrals through another coupon. Sounds complicated but once I have a customer I use them as a tool for more work with friends and family. Although it did well postcards were better.
> 
> Anyhow, give me some time and I'll pull out my sharpies and see what I can help you with.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 83333




It sounds like you are on top of your game.


----------



## Oconomowoc

I worked until 11:00 doing emergency service so I didn't get a chance to write anything. Today is going to be another late one because of the snow storm putting me behind. 

I'd like to come back and finish explaining how I went through the transition process and made a healthy profit and why my marketing costs are shrinking. It's nothing revolutionary but I can explain how to get to where you want to be. 

Have a nice day guys.


----------



## mk5065

My advice is dont worry about the size of the job but how much money you make. I used to feel that if I wasn't building something big it wasn't significant. Some of those bigger jobs can really bury you if you don't bid right. You can always recover if you underbid a small job.


----------



## wclemens

*part-timer*

Networking is huge. Sell yourself and your work by those you come into contact with on a daily basis. Are you involved in your community (church, Lions Club, etc)? Network where the potential customers are. 

Can't fly like an eagle when hanging out with the turkeys. 

Good luck!


----------



## Munanbak

I agree with the information on here. In the case of the bathroom remodeler, my take on it is if you are doing your job well, that's fine. You are still getting pie. You can only get better at what you do, and you should aim for a great showroom, great subs and a streamlined process. It's the old pie, but it sure is tasty and there are always customers baking more.

In the case of the bathroom remodeler, I believe the new pie is in the hands of the "bath in a day" guys. In and out, fast and good. New market. They are not competing with you because they offer a different service, (just for the same room).


----------



## cabinetsnj

Oconomowoc said:


> Yeah, I definitely married up. Can't believe she puts up with me. Lol


Good job. Hopefully she will continue to put up with you!


----------



## lawndart

Calling Mike...

I see you online....

Get back to this thread, and continue with your excellent points.....


----------



## Paulie

donerightwyo said:


> Paulie, did you you get a good look at the parrot? It's a REALLY nice parrot, don't you think?:thumbup:


I can't tell with just a profile shot. Can't see the parrots plumage.


----------



## A.Murrill

Waiting for this seminar to restart.


----------



## Zewlander

A.Murrill said:


> Waiting for this seminar to restart.


Send Oconomowoc a pm and ask him when he's going to
restart the seminar.


----------



## donerightwyo

Mike said it in the google thread. What do you expect for free?:laughing:

Anytime your ready though, Mike:whistling


----------



## ohiohomedoctor

If Anthony is interested I had better read it before he dominates the local market.. :clap:


----------



## griz

Marry a VERY rich girl.....:thumbsup:

Then you can have a construction company for a hobby....:whistling:laughing:


----------



## donerightwyo

griz said:


> Marry a VERY rich girl.....:thumbsup:
> 
> Then you can have a construction company for a hobby....:whistling:laughing:


Is that what you did Griz? If I had a rich woman I damn sure wouldn't blow my allowance doing this:no:


----------



## griz

donerightwyo said:


> Is that what you did Griz? If I had a rich woman I damn sure wouldn't blow my allowance doing this:no:



No, not even close....:whistling:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:

but holy chit can she cook....:thumbsup::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Mud Master

griz said:


> Marry a VERY rich girl.....:thumbsup:
> 
> Then you can have a construction company for a hobby....:whistling:laughing:


See I knew I got it wrong.

I married a girl who THINKS she's rich but only with my money.


----------



## Oconomowoc

Mud Master said:


> See I knew I got it wrong.
> 
> I married a girl who THINKS she's rich but only with my money.


Run. Run very very far and never return. Lol


----------



## Jaws

griz said:


> No, not even close....:whistling:thumbup::thumbup::laughing:
> 
> but holy chit can she cook....:thumbsup::thumbup::thumbsup::thumbsup:




Mine too. Jan 2 is going to suck. All these baked goods, pie, and vittles have blown my ass up 10 pounds. :laughing:


----------



## griz

Jaws said:


> Mine too. Jan 2 is going to suck. All these baked goods, pie, and vittles have blown my ass up 10 pounds. :laughing:


Well if you'd bag up & go to work....:whistling:laughing::laughing:

instead of hanging out in the comfy office chair or the truck...:laughing:


just saying......

When I used to work for a living never had the too much vittles problem...:jester::jester:


----------



## SDel Prete

r4r&r said:


> Gotta give the guy some slack as I assume it wasn't easy for him to type either. According to a previous post he suffered some pretty severe head trauma in a motorcycle accident just a few years ago and is slowly relearning things.


Well in that case he's doing pretty good


----------



## MCCarpentry

Now thats how you kill a thread


----------



## SDel Prete

MCCarpentry said:


> Now thats how you kill a thread


Indeed


----------



## lawndart

Looks like Mike is keeping his secret. 21 pages and we're still waiting for the answer.


----------



## cabinetsnj

lawndart said:


> Looks like Mike is keeping his secret. 21 pages and we're still waiting for the answer.


I enjoy keeping my secrets as well.


----------



## -JM-

Just read right through, appreciate the insight and effort mike. Worthwhile read even without the grand finale.


----------



## MCCarpentry

Finally got a chance to read all the way through this thing, awesome thread! Is there a Contractor Talk Book for sale anywhere? There are a lot of nice gems among the pages of these forums.

Mike,

Thanks for sharing your story with us. Very helpful!


----------



## SecuritySystems

i think @ocono is busy writing the book so you can buy it instead. shoot... what he has already provided is good enough to put the pieces together to figure for our own stuff, anyway!


----------



## Oconomowoc

-JM- said:


> Just read right through, appreciate the insight and effort mike. Worthwhile read even without the grand finale.


If your looking for a grand finale you won't find it. As many will tell you, it can't exist.

You see, business is a process. It evolves. Just like today, my business will undergo change. 
The only real "secret" here is a mans ability to make decisions needs to be founded on logic rather than emotion. 

Over the years I've come to the realization that most people are very intelligent. Unfortunately far too many people make business decisions based on emotion. 

Although I'm known as a rather emotional person one thing I have demonstrated over the years is that my decisions are based on logic as it concerns business.

I think most failures in life can be traced to people making emotional decisions, whether that be in business or life in general. Every time I've made decisions based on emotion it comes full circle and bites me.

The very notion of emotional based decisions comes from two places.....past or future. Nothing about that is good. And often times emotion is driven by ego. Logic based solutions comes from the president moment, and all good things come from the present moment.

Today I woke up, and that alone is a gift. I'll have numerous decisions to make and many of them will effect my business tomorrow. The more logic I use the better off tomorrow is. That's rather deep but it's the only true secret that exists.


----------



## hdavis

Did you get the Bass Model paper?


----------



## Oconomowoc

hdavis said:


> Did you get the Bass Model paper?


I downloaded it, but haven't read it yet. It's on my to-do list. Lol


----------



## cevinklark

Finally some closure!


----------



## CENTERLINE MV

Nice to see ya around here Mike:thumbup:


----------



## renov8r

Everything will come in time dude. It's like how they say when looking for love, don't go looking for it let it come to you and it will when least expected. The only thing you can do is take every job that you can get. Weed out the jobs that you know are going to be problems by giving a higher quotation (in my experience I've landed most of them). Network with and tradesman friends or relatives you have. Try to network with your clients. I get jobs of all sizes, from repairs which not many people would go out for to home flips. My safe heaven is usually basements, painting, and pot lights. I usually get the next job from either loyal customers or referrals from those loyal customers. I take work of all kinds, and a lot of times I do without thinking straight because I have to do the same thign as you put food on the table. My best advice is stick to it dude and you'll make it!


----------



## cabinetsnj

renov8r said:


> Everything will come in time dude. It's like how they say when looking for love, don't go looking for it let it come to you and it will when least expected. The only thing you can do is take every job that you can get. Weed out the jobs that you know are going to be problems by giving a higher quotation (in my experience I've landed most of them). Network with and tradesman friends or relatives you have. Try to network with your clients. I get jobs of all sizes, from repairs which not many people would go out for to home flips. My safe heaven is usually basements, painting, and pot lights. I usually get the next job from either loyal customers or referrals from those loyal customers. I take work of all kinds, and a lot of times I do without thinking straight because I have to do the same thign as you put food on the table. My best advice is stick to it dude and you'll make it!



Sometimes the tortoise wins the race. You have to be patient and steady and success will come to you. The fastest person doesn't usually win the race.


----------



## Oconomowoc

One secret that works wonders is to simply return phone calls. It's only Tuesday and already I've had 3 customers ask me why, when they call other contractors, they don't return calls.

Like I always said, the business of construction is as easy as it gets compared to other types of businesses.


----------



## MarkJames

Oconomowoc said:


> One secret that works wonders is to simply return phone calls. It's only Tuesday and already I've had 3 customers ask me why, when they call other contractors, they don't return calls.
> 
> Like I always said, the business of construction is as easy as it gets compared to other types of businesses.


I asked our new neighbor how she eventually picked the contractor who did her new wrap-around porch. She said, in a frustrated way, that he was the only one who returned with a bid. (She wasn't a "red flag" client, either.) It was a 38k job, as I recall.


----------



## SDel Prete

You guys mean to tell me that if I return calls or actually summit an estimate I might get more jobs? Wooohoooo lol but really those who don't should just go work for somebody.


----------



## MarkJames

SDel Prete said:


> You guys mean to tell me that if I return calls or actually summit an estimate I might get more jobs? Wooohoooo lol but really those who don't should just go work for somebody.


I was just sharing a "true fact" from up the street.


----------



## SDel Prete

MarkJames said:


> I was just sharing a "true fact" from up the street.


I know. I'm just shocked everyday when I hear about people not returning calls or worse taking the time to go out and see a project then never to be heard from again.


----------

