# Gas vs diesel



## ray_banz (Sep 25, 2017)

Im a carpenter, I use my truck for work hauling trash, tools, equipment. Heaviest I'll tow will be 14k, most ill ever have in bed is about 4k. Was wondering what you guys would suggest for next truck gas or diesel? My current truck 01 f150 4x4 is on its last straw. Currently in the market for truck. Any advice would be great. Thanks


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

This is a hotly debated topic. 

Either way for what you are towing I would recommend at least a 3/4 ton. 

Today diesels are becoming less reliable, with a higher upfront expense, and higher maintenance costs. For most folks the numbers don't add up and break even comes at around 100K. Throw in a failure of a major component and you can spend far more than on a gasser. Went thru this a couple years ago with one of my friends, and after running a spreadsheet out he wound up going from a diesel to a gas and has zero regrets.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah, diesel rigs scare me now. When Ford starts making 150,000 mile engines on purpose, I gotta start rethinking things.

All the diesels in my price range are duds. My 2001 Superduty just keeps on keepin' on, with 265,000 miles. I dread looking for a new rig.

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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

My next is going to be diesel mainly because I plan on upgrading my camper to a 5'er.

To OP, you are towing 14k and loading 4k in your F150 now?


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## ray_banz (Sep 25, 2017)

No I'm not pulling 14k with my f150. I was saying the next truck I buy has to be able to pull 14k and have a payload of 4k. So based off that what truck I should get


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

ray_banz said:


> No I'm not pulling 14k with my f150. I was saying the next truck I buy has to be able to pull 14k and have a payload of 4k. So based off that what truck I should get


Better be one heck of a truck to haul 4k in the bed and that much on the bumper.

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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

A 10 wheel dump truck


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

or a F-450.

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## ray_banz (Sep 25, 2017)

An f350 dually with air bags should do the trick


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Well, here's my take on it.

Time was, you couldn't tow more than 8 or10K with a gas. That has changed. Ford has a 6.2 gas with a 4:30 ass-end, that'll tow what my 6.7 Cummins will tow.

Diesel used to be the toughest and most reliable. What changed is emissions requirements, and speed. If you can pull the EGR and DPF, and you get one that doesn't use DEF, you can get the old reliability out of a diesel. 

The second is speed. My old 7.3 would drive about 60 MPH, full, empty, up hill, whatever. Now, people want a truck that will tow 20K uphill at 80 MPH, and it has to ride like a Cadillac. For that reason, trucks are ruined now.

I have an '08 Ram 3500 dually, and I had to put airbags on it just to be able to put anything in the bed. It still sways wildly when under load.

The Powerstroke is a highly complicated engine. It will cost you to maintain it. The Cummins is a far better engine, but it only comes in a Dodge, and in my opinion, Dodge is junk. They are just not that heavy-duty. 

There is a reason 90% of fleets in this country still run Fords. 

So basically, yuppies F&&Ked up the truck market, so we're screwed. :laughing:





Delta


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Now, people want a truck that will to 20K uphill at 80 MPH, and it has to ride like a Cadillac.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





AAAhhhh, my dream machine.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Good friend just bought 2017 f350 CC 4x4 longed with 6.7 psd, 3.55 gears and is hitting 23mpg on highway. Second day he had it he pulled his old 97 f350 CC 4x4 home on a gooseneck, 18mpg. 

He has 125k mile all inclusive warranty. 

50k out the door. 

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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Good friend just bought 2017 f350 CC 4x4 longed with 6.7 psd, 3.55 gears and is hitting 23mpg on highway. Second day he had it he pulled his old 97 f350 CC 4x4 home on a gooseneck, 18mpg.
> 
> He has 125k mile all inclusive warranty.
> 
> ...


Not bad. I've heard that Ford fixed a lot of the issues the 6.0 and 6.4 had, with this new 6.7.

Does that warranty cover emissions stuff, too?



Delta


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Not bad. I've heard that Ford fixed a lot of the issues the 6.0 and 6.4 had, with this new 6.7.
> 
> Does that warranty cover emissions stuff, too?
> 
> ...


Said it covers everything. Cost an extra 2500 bucks. He was more concerned about all the electrical crap. 



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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Said it covers everything. Cost an extra 2500 bucks. He was more concerned about all the electrical crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Yep. All the electrical stuff on new rigs is a huge problem. Electronic throttle and electronic-controlled transmissions are two huge problem areas. 

Then windows, doors, locks, 4x4, seats, and 7,000 miniature lights for everything in the cab.  Lot of s#!t to break.




Delta


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Look at what you can get a used v10 F450 for, they are an incredible value


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Ah! I'm making a somewhat similar decision but on a much smaller scale...I've had my eye on a GMC Canyon (Chevy Colorado)...Crew cab 4x4 w/6' bed. I'll keep the Ram I've got, but with child in route, I'm wanting something with more cab space but don't necessarily need another full size truck (and it won't fit in the garage!). The thing is, I'd like to be able to tow some stuff with it, so I'm debating between the 4 cyl Duramax they put in it, or just stick with the V6. 

I really want the Duramax Diesel, but haven't talked myself into it yet. Diesel here is more expensive at the pump, and it's a $3k add to the sticker price. Just seems like it'd take a decade to get the payback...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

My brother and I are both driving 2017 F250 6.2 L gas, we also still have a 2012 6.2 gas and an older 09 diesel dually, but we use our new trucks to pull 20 yard dumpsters and equipment on goosenecks is not a problem, it pulls great. I do think a dually diesel pulls a better obviously, and if you are hauling major equipment or large loads like Warner I would probably get a dually but the F250 gas Motors are great for a few times a week pulling equipment around to job sites and then basically running around the rest of the time.

We trade ours in every couple years (will put 35-50k a year on them) or so or kick them down to the guys, otherwise we would probably get diesel and go F350

The old school Diesel's like vinyl has and especially the 99 versions or the 97 version that Warner got is going to be a badass reliable Workhorse.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

I had to decide on a Cummins or the Triton 5.6 for mine. I chose the Triton gasser because the new diesels just aren't there anymore. The beauty of a diesel was the simplicity of the engine and fuel delivery. Emissions have screwed all that up.

Gasser's have made amazing leaps forward in the past decade where the diesels have taken a step backwards. With fuel cost and repair cost and inability to work on either one... Gas is the way to go these days unless you go older (Pre 2007).

This all coming from a guy who has always owned a diesel for the past 12 years. (Course I am a soccer dad these days so take it with a grain of salt:laughing


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

I always get a kick out of people who own a newer diesel and leave them idling most of the time when they are parked. They think the are old school truck drivers, believing the engine can idle forever.

Idling over 5 min is the worst thing for a diesel now, they cant even generate enough heat to keep up the temps. Screws up all sorts of stuff.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Jaws said:


> Working on it or just not using?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I don't want to drive it on salted roads. It has 0 rust on it. Heck the first 6 years my buddy had it, he wouldn't drive it in the rain. Lol

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Sounds like a gem

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

If like to get a good 85'3/4 Scottsdale or 70s model ford 4x4 that is in good shape

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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

if you get any diesel just get a Cummings.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Jaws said:


> If like to get a good 85'3/4 Scottsdale or 70s model ford 4x4 that is in good shape
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


You are in TX, they should be everywhere. Lol

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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Jaws said:


> If like to get a good 85'3/4 Scottsdale or 70s model ford 4x4 that is in good shape
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


That was my dream rig when I was a kid. '85-'87 Chevy or GMC K-3500. Fire engine red. :thumbsup: 



Delta


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## Bambamm511 (Jan 29, 2014)

I don't know, so far I love my 2017 Duramax. I need it for the power of towing my dump trailer. It accelerates so much easier than my 2015 gassers.

They definitely are expensive though. As soon as manufacturer warranty is up is when I'll plan to get a new one.

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Bambamm511 said:


> I don't know, so far I love my 2017 Duramax. I need it for the power of towing my dump trailer. It accelerates so much easier than my 2015 gassers.
> 
> They definitely are expensive though. As soon as manufacturer warranty is up is when I'll plan to get a new one.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I just pulled 2 20 yard dumpsters full of construction debris 100 miles in my gas F250 and I did not have any trouble at all. The diesel dually does pull a little bit smoother but not enough to make me want to spend another 10 grand on a diesel. I spend a lot more time running around and pulling Lite trailers that does not add up when you're driving a diesel that cost $10,000 more and the fuel and maintenance cost more. I also bought to the same month. So that doubles that cost. LOL

I will probably trade mine in and 2 years, it will pass almost 100,000 or maybe more on it by then

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> That was my dream rig when I was a kid. '85-'87 Chevy or GMC K-3500. Fire engine red.
> 
> 
> 
> Delta


I had a tan 85 3/4 ton Scottsdale 4 wheel drive when I was in high school. I tore it to Pieces by the time I was 23 doing everything under the sun with it

Four on the floor 454 with a boared out Edelbrock carburetor and Flowmaster exhaust.

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## Bambamm511 (Jan 29, 2014)

Jaws said:


> I just pulled 2 20 yard dumpsters full of construction debris 100 miles in my gas F250 and I did not have any trouble at all. The diesel dually does pull a little bit smoother but not enough to make me want to spend another 10 grand on a diesel. I spend a lot more time running around and pulling Lite trailers that does not add up when you're driving a diesel that cost $10,000 more and the fuel and maintenance cost more. I also bought to the same month. So that doubles that cost. LOL
> 
> I will probably trade mine in and 2 years, it will pass almost 100,000 or maybe more on it by then
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Yeah, I have no problems with gassers, I just enjoy my diesel more than I did those. The guys drive them now. The engine doesn't seem to work as hard when pulling.

New diesels also seem to hold value better but the DEF stuff is annoying.

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Bambamm511 said:


> Yeah, I have no problems with gassers, I just enjoy my diesel more than I did those. The guys drive them now. The engine doesn't seem to work as hard when pulling.
> 
> New diesels also seem to hold value better but the DEF stuff is annoying.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


They definitely pull better, if I pulled all the time I would buy a diesel for sure. I never liked diesels as much for some reason, maybe the only ******* I know that does not like diesels :laughing:


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## Bambamm511 (Jan 29, 2014)

Jaws said:


> They definitely pull better, if I pulled all the time I would buy a diesel for sure. I never liked diesels as much for some reason, maybe the only ******* I know that does not like diesels :laughing:


I only bought it to make up for something I lack.

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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Jaws said:


> They definitely pull better, if I pulled all the time I would buy a diesel for sure. I never liked diesels as much for some reason, maybe the only ******* I know that does not like diesels :laughing:


As much as you drive you would make up for it in economy. Buddy is still getting 25 mpg on the highway in his 6.7 with 450 miles on it, which is now parked in his garage until spring. Lol. 

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> As much as you drive you would make up for it in economy. Buddy is still getting 25 mpg on the highway in his 6.7 with 450 miles on it, which is now parked in his garage until spring. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I guess I am a bad driver I have never got more than 18

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## DATEC (Nov 4, 2017)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> As much as you drive you would make up for it in economy. Buddy is still getting 25 mpg on the highway in his 6.7 with 450 miles on it, which is now parked in his garage until spring. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Empty my 2000 4x4 Cummins won't give me that. If it did I would be able to go 900mi per tank full and that never happens.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

DATEC said:


> Empty my 2000 4x4 Cummins won't give me that. If it did I would be able to go 900mi per tank full and that never happens.


The 3.55 gears are the key. 

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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The 3.55 gears are the key.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


little tall of gears for pulling, isn't it? think i'd go for 3.73's. just depends if you use it as a work vehicle, or a car.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

dayexco said:


> little tall of gears for pulling, isn't it? think i'd go for 3.73's. just depends if you use it as a work vehicle, or a car.


I think 3.53 or 3.73 is about perfect for a mixed use of driving and towing up to about 16k pounds or so. 

They have tons of hp and tq now, see no need for 410s any more. 

Had an old 93 dodge with 12v that had 353s, yes slow off line but it would pull anything and got great economy. 

Never dragged raced with 16k pounds behind me. 

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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

bought a new powerstroke 4x4 in 94, ordered it with 3.23 for mileage..empty, did great. hook job trailer or boat behind it, and didn't like overdrive very much.


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## DATEC (Nov 4, 2017)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The 3.55 gears are the key.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


My gears are in the 3's not sure if 3.55's can't remember exacally but surely not the 4's. Maybe because it's an auto.

It's a standard cab, cab and chassis truck that started life with a dump bed and now has flat bed.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

There is a big difference now in new vehicles with rearend gear ratios with all of the new 6 and 8 speed transmissions compared to older vehicles 


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## Juan80 (Oct 16, 2012)

Exhaust break is another plus for me in the diesel vrs gas debate. 
Of course more useful when towing.
Charlie 


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

dayexco said:


> bought a new powerstroke 4x4 in 94, ordered it with 3.23 for mileage..empty, did great. hook job trailer or boat behind it, and didn't like overdrive very much.


94 only had a psd with a 5 speed manual. 

95 to 97s really needed 410s to tow heavy. 

Transmission is a big factor along with 1/2 the hp and tq of the new ones. 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

DATEC said:


> Empty my 2000 4x4 Cummins won't give me that. If it did I would be able to go 900mi per tank full and that never happens.





WarnerConstInc. said:


> As much as you drive you would make up for it in economy. Buddy is still getting 25 mpg on the highway in his 6.7 with 450 miles on it, which is now parked in his garage until spring. Lol.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Are you guys talking US gallons or Imperial Gallons? My 2016 came close but I was really babying it. If he got 25 miles per US gallon average on a tank I think I'd eat my hat. And I'm talking hand calculated, not some truck computer telling you what it thinks it's getting bull****.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Are you guys talking US gallons or Imperial Gallons? My 2016 came close but I was really babying it. If he got 25 miles per US gallon average on a tank I think I'd eat my hat. And I'm talking hand calculated, not some truck computer telling you what it thinks it's getting bull****.


It was off by .15 mpg per gallon computer vs. Hand. I am pretty impressed by it. We towed his old truck home 4 hours on a gooseneck behind his new truck and got 17 mpg. 

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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 94 only had a psd with a 5 speed manual.


huh? mine was an 4 spd auto, twin to this truck but mine was regular cab.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...searchRadius=0&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=F250


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

dayexco said:


> huh? mine was an 4 spd auto, twin to this truck but mine was regular cab.
> 
> https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...searchRadius=0&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=F250


94 auto was a turbo IDI. 94.5 with a 5 speed was the first power stroke. 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It was off by .15 mpg per gallon computer vs. Hand. I am pretty impressed by it. We towed his old truck home 4 hours on a gooseneck behind his new truck and got 17 mpg.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Mine is pretty close, it can touch 25 but that's coasting up hill, avoiding the break pedal like the plague etc. But city it murder, especially with a trailer. Hauling a dump trailer in stop and go traffic burns through a tank like nothing. Long drives on country roads are great.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

dayexco said:


> huh? mine was an 4 spd auto, twin to this truck but mine was regular cab.
> 
> https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...searchRadius=0&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=F250


That is a turbo IDI someone stuck a power stroke emblem on. 

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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

A turbocharged 7.3L IDI V8 with stronger internals was offered (1993.5-1994.5) as emissions, power, and torque demands were increasing. In the second half of 1994, the 7.3L Power Stroke V8 Turbodiesel replaced the 7.3L IDI V8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series_(ninth_generation)

if you're right, somebody glued powerstroke nomenclature all over my truck?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

dayexco said:


> A turbocharged 7.3L IDI V8 with stronger internals was offered (1993.5-1994.5) as emissions, power, and torque demands were increasing. In the second half of 1994, the 7.3L Power Stroke V8 Turbodiesel replaced the 7.3L IDI V8
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series_(ninth_generation)
> 
> if you're right, somebody glued powerstroke nomenclature all over my truck?


If you have the VIN# we can look it up.

The truck for sale you posted is 100% an IDI with a PS sticker on it.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

Inner10 said:


> If you have the VIN# we can look it up.
> 
> The truck for sale you posted is 100% an IDI with a PS sticker on it.


I'll have to look back in old records tomorrow. I ordered the truck in December, and came in late February if I remember right. 

Was colder than all get out, and gelled it up between dealership and truck stop where I wanted to throw in #1. 

Dealership had to tow back, put in new filters and thaw out. 



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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

dayexco said:


> I'll have to look back in old records tomorrow. I ordered the truck in December, and came in late February if I remember right.
> 
> Was colder than all get out, and gelled it up between dealership and truck stop where I wanted to throw in #1.
> 
> ...


Was it an F250 or F350? I don't know if the PS ever made it's way into the 250....


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

250

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

dayexco said:


> I'll have to look back in old records tomorrow. I ordered the truck in December, and came in late February if I remember right.
> 
> Was colder than all get out, and gelled it up between dealership and truck stop where I wanted to throw in #1.
> 
> ...


You would probably remember from popping the hood.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i ordered with snow plow prep package. had it about 2 weeks, lifted blade, and left side axle housing broke right off the dif housing. first and last twin I beam vehicle i ever put a plow on. warranty fixed it, they hadn't sold my trade yet, so i used that til they got mine fixed.

think ford abandon that shortly after and went back to straight front axle.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i'll have to dig out my old insurance/registration files, get the VIN


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Twin beam or wish bone front end was in all 150s and 250s from 87 to 97. Psd was in 250, 350 and fsuperduty from 94.5 to 97. 

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Take that back, started in 1980. Last solid front axle 150/250 was 1979.


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## pizalm (Mar 27, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> You would probably remember from popping the hood.




The difference in the engine sound is pretty distinct as well


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

I gotta call bull**** on the 25 mpg for a 6.7

My 5.9L Cummins was a 6 speed manual 4x4 CC dually, and I averaged 19 by hand. Was a 3.73. That was in flatland Florida. Half highway half city.

Hard to believe someone gets over 20 with an auto but from what I understand these newer diesels are getting crazy economy.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Deckhead said:


> I gotta call bull**** on the 25 mpg for a 6.7
> 
> My 5.9L Cummins was a 6 speed manual 4x4 CC dually, and I averaged 19 by hand. Was a 3.73. That was in flatland Florida. Half highway half city.
> 
> Hard to believe someone gets over 20 with an auto but from what I understand these newer diesels are getting crazy economy.


I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't in it for a tank of fuel. It's the gears and the transmission. 

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## Sunset Designs (Dec 15, 2014)

I'm in the market for a new truck also. Sitting with 315k in my 05 Sierra 3/4 ton gasser 6.0. My 05 diesel Silverado has had so many problems that I am shying away from the diesels. 

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## Bambamm511 (Jan 29, 2014)

Deckhead said:


> I gotta call bull**** on the 25 mpg for a 6.7
> 
> My 5.9L Cummins was a 6 speed manual 4x4 CC dually, and I averaged 19 by hand. Was a 3.73. That was in flatland Florida. Half highway half city.
> 
> Hard to believe someone gets over 20 with an auto but from what I understand these newer diesels are getting crazy economy.


I have gotten it up to 22.5. I average out around 16-17









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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

well, i only had that truck from 94-96 and it appears my records for that vehicle have been purged. insurance agent says same thing.

went to court house, requested to get VIN on vehicle i previously owned and was told that through the privacy issues, they could not give it to me.

BUT, i did talk to my son this morning, he is sure also, that mine was a power stroke, and it did have a 4 speed automatic trans.

guess we'll never know for sure unless i can find something with further digging.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

Bambamm511 said:


> I have gotten it up to 22.5. I average out around 16-17
> 
> 
> 
> ...


been told that on dura max, the key rpm for mileage is 2k or less. i see yours is about 1900 at 79 mph. what rear end is that again?


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## hammer7896 (Feb 28, 2010)

3.73. Only thing available on a Duramax


Mike


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## DATEC (Nov 4, 2017)

dayexco said:


> been told that on dura max, the key rpm for mileage is 2k or less. i see yours is about 1900 at 79 mph. what rear end is that again?



Can you explain, what does that mean? I never heard anybody reference that. Is that the average RPM and average speed?


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

DATEC said:


> Can you explain, what does that mean? I never heard anybody reference that. Is that the average RPM and average speed?


as long as it's not lugging, lower rpm's helps fuel economy.

if you look at pic of his dash there, he's doing 79 mph, and the tach reads approx. 1900 rpm. and my comment on the correlation from rpm to mph is just what i've overheard other duramax owners say.


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## DATEC (Nov 4, 2017)

dayexco said:


> as long as it's not lugging, lower rpm's helps fuel economy.
> 
> if you look at pic of his dash there, he's doing 79 mph, and the tach reads approx. 1900 rpm. and my comment on the correlation from rpm to mph is just what i've overheard other duramax owners say.


Oh I feel kinda stupid, he's driving :laughing:, I never looked at the fact he has it in drive, DUH!! I thought he just turned the key and scrolled through the info center.


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## mstrat (Jul 10, 2013)

Bambamm511 said:


> I have gotten it up to 22.5. I average out around 16-17
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A photo while hittin' 80!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Not a high hp power plant, but easy to work on and the last Ford body style I really liked.









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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Not a high hp power plant, but easy to work on and the last Ford body style I really liked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice truck. :thumbsup: Is it for sale? :laughing:


I had a '92 Ford 250 with the 7.3. 5 speed manual. Really liked it, but it was a little beat up. And it was an extended cab, and I really needed to go to a crew cab. 




Delta


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

rrk said:


> The older ones 90s, had no emissions control at all. No EGR valve to soot up, no DPF to clog, all cast iron. Once the engines warmed up the engine could keep operating temps just by idling, newer engines cant do that without keeping them at 1500 rpm.
> 
> High idle only came around after 07 except for PTO use. Any engine after 07 had specific rules for idle time and for shutdown time, now those times are even lower. The shut down time is for oil to cool the turbo.
> 
> My truck if idled 15 minutes usually cases EGR issues for a few weeks until it cleans itself. It is the 3rd EGR valve, now that I'm over 100k its out of emissions warranty and will not be replaced. The dealer said DPF should make it to 130k or so.


Delete, delete, delete


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Nice truck.  Is it for sale? :laughing:
> 
> 
> I had a '92 Ford 250 with the 7.3. 5 speed manual. Really liked it, but it was a little beat up. And it was an extended cab, and I really needed to go to a crew cab.
> ...


In 4 days, 6 different people have asked me if I wanted to sell it. Lol. 

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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Delete, delete, delete


My 6.0 Powerstroke had all the deletes. But I sold it.

Unfortunately, I bought a Dodge. It's stock right now, and to do the delete will require a $1,000 tuner, or else it will go into "limp mode".  And then I won't be able to sell it because it won't pass smog. 

So I have to decide if I'm just gonna keep the damn thing, or get my ass back in a Ford. Everyday something else goes wrong on that stupid Ram. :wallbash:



Delta


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> My 6.0 Powerstroke had all the deletes. But I sold it.
> 
> Unfortunately, I bought a Dodge. It's stock right now, and to do the delete will require a $1,000 tuner, or else it will go into "limp mode".  And then I won't be able to sell it because it won't pass smog.
> 
> ...


I have no complaints on my deleted 6.4. Love the truck. Fortunately I bought it already done.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Delete, delete, delete


Big big fine and impounding here. For diesel trucks over 10k is self inspection but they have random roadside inspection. Which is much more difficult than regular inspections that smaller trucks have.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

rrk said:


> Big big fine and impounding here. For diesel trucks over 10k is self inspection but they have random roadside inspection. Which is much more difficult than regular inspections that smaller trucks have.


Really messed up the trade-in value once it won't pass and e-test and no one can drive it on the roads legally.


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## going_commando (Feb 19, 2013)

rrk said:


> The older ones 90s, had no emissions control at all. No EGR valve to soot up, no DPF to clog, all cast iron. Once the engines warmed up the engine could keep operating temps just by idling, newer engines cant do that without keeping them at 1500 rpm.
> 
> High idle only came around after 07 except for PTO use. Any engine after 07 had specific rules for idle time and for shutdown time, now those times are even lower. The shut down time is for oil to cool the turbo.
> 
> My truck if idled 15 minutes usually cases EGR issues for a few weeks until it cleans itself. It is the 3rd EGR valve, now that I'm over 100k its out of emissions warranty and will not be replaced. The dealer said DPF should make it to 130k or so.


We had a 1990 bucket truck with a 7.3l IDI diesel. If, when you had it on start and the glowplugs were running, if you pressed the accelerator to the floor and released, it would high idle.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

My 97 has no high idle. 99 psd had high idle. 

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## MTRmatt (Dec 10, 2017)

My chevy 6.0 l motors were solid and gave zero issues. They love to guzzle fuel tho. Last one was still running strong at 260k when sold. Now transmissions......dont get me started. I only ever tow aluminum boat/trailers regularly, but ill admit moving large job or dump trailers around jobsites it would feel alittle underpowered 

Love the eccoboost twin turbo, its the number one reason i went to the f150 from 2 plus decades of 3/4 ton chevy gasers. Good mpgs with lots of power 
Rides kinda like a car which i mixed feelings on. Cant help but wonder what theyd be like in a 250 super duty and ill be right there in line to test drive if they do, but who knows howd they perform. Sure do i miss the big trucks at times tho!


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## MTRmatt (Dec 10, 2017)

Btw that eccoboost is flat out fun in sport mode.....in fact 2 much fun, ive gotten 2 speeding tickets in the 7 months ive had one, i only had 3 tickets in the previous 15 years lol.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

SmallTownGuy said:


> wtf is high idle?


Sprinter 3.0 diesel's have that as an option from the factory for high-idle. Believe it utilizes the engine to drive a generator or hydraulic pump via a PTO. Here in the states Mercedes Sprinter's aren't very popular but they populate the highways in Europe.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

MTRmatt said:


> Btw that eccoboost is flat out fun in sport mode.....in fact 2 much fun, ive gotten 2 speeding tickets in the 7 months ive had one, i only had 3 tickets in the previous 15 years lol.


what kind of fuel mileage are you getting? Is that the same or similar engine that is in the Raptor?


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## MTRmatt (Dec 10, 2017)

AustinDB said:


> what kind of fuel mileage are you getting? Is that the same or similar engine that is in the Raptor?


Not real familar with the raptor but i believe the raptors is same but the hopped up version. 
If im remembering correct. i believe its 365 hp and 420 ft lbs. Lately been getting low 16s average which is down from low to mid 17s in warmer months. I break into the 20s on highway if i lay off it but i rarely do and the trucks usually loaded with tools,materials or both. Towing 18ft aluminium bass boat to mountains in pa was getting mid 13's to low 14's on hilly roads. This trucks blows away every v8 chevy truck, 1/2 or 3/4, ton ive ever owned as far as get up and go


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> wtf is high idle?


The PSD's will go from idle at about 700 rpm to a higher idle around 1200 RPM after about 90 seconds of idling. Once you tap the brake pedal it goes back to idle. This keeps the cylinder temperature up while idling which is important on a diesel.

I run a 205ºF thermostat in my PSD, the engine runs smoother and the fuel economy is better. 

Tom


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## Quality5280 (Sep 4, 2016)

ray_banz said:


> Im a carpenter, I use my truck for work hauling trash, tools, equipment. Heaviest I'll tow will be 14k, most ill ever have in bed is about 4k. Was wondering what you guys would suggest for next truck gas or diesel? My current truck 01 f150 4x4 is on its last straw. Currently in the market for truck. Any advice would be great. Thanks




How much are you looking to spend ?



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## Quality5280 (Sep 4, 2016)

Anymore with any of the newer diesel duallys you basically need a commercial drivers license to do anything with it 

watch your gvwr’s !!!


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tjbnwi said:


> The PSD's will go from idle at about 700 rpm to a higher idle around 1200 RPM after about 90 seconds of idling. Once you tap the brake pedal it goes back to idle. This keeps the cylinder temperature up while idling which is important on a diesel.
> 
> I run a 205ºF thermostat in my PSD, the engine runs smoother and the fuel economy is better.
> 
> Tom


I have heard that temp tstat is a good option, I believe it has to be ordered as Ford only supplied 192/195 degree ones. 

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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I have heard that temp tstat is a good option, I believe it has to be ordered as Ford only supplied 192/195 degree ones.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


This is where I got it from.

https://sportcompactwarehouse.com/m...ke=Ford&Model=Excursion&gsID=pxf463267f35140&

Tom


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Installation and use of a block, battery and tranny oil heaters wired to a common plug, make any diesel much more pleasant to drive off on cold or cool mornings, In real adverse climes, a engine oil heater can be added as a final touch to extend motor, battery, and starter lives to their max possible. and also some add a trickle battery charger instead of the warmer, both in super cold areas.

15 Seconds plugging and unplugging, morning and night will add thousands of miles to all heated components.And raise winter mpg #s.

I place the extension cord where the operator can't get in the cab with out stepping it....Just like the one on the forklift etc......:thumbsup:

Don't have time for block heaters etc....get a gasser and save $$.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Installation and use of a block, battery and tranny oil heaters wired to a common plug, make any diesel much more pleasant to drive off on cold or cool mornings, In real adverse climes, a engine oil heater can be added as a final touch to extend motor, battery, and starter lives to their max possible. and also some add a trickle battery charger instead of the warmer, both in super cold areas.
> 
> 15 Seconds plugging and unplugging, morning and night will add thousands of miles to all heated components.And raise winter mpg #s.
> 
> ...


Block heater does nothing for the engine actually making heat when it's idling or running in the cold. As soon as the truck sits idling the engine temp drops. Block heater doesn't do anything for that. 

Plugged my truck in about 4 times this winter, 1000w is a lot of juice it's drawing. 

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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

!000 Watts is a very large block heater....
Timer.....turn on a few hours prior work time?

A 4000 to 8000$ up charge for a diesel engine and tranny, and you seriously worried about a dollar that SAVES a dollar+ in fuel usage? Just the instant defrost is worth a dollar to me...

If your truck cab is cold as an old air cooled VW bus, cardboard or a radiator 'sweater' for the cold season is a no brainer.

maybe a medium truck shutter system?

A tin stove around the exhaust pipe to preheat the cab air?

A Auxiliary Power Unit, and you have a 6 KiloWatt genny for the job site....:clap:

If I was cold in 40-50 K$ truck for more then 2-3 minutes, I be very unhappy. 

If I was cold two weeks in a row I'd be S....d.....


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> !000 Watts is a very large block heater....
> Timer.....turn on a few hours prior work time?
> 
> A 4000 to 8000$ up charge for a diesel engine and tranny, and you seriously worried about a dollar that SAVES a dollar+ in fuel usage? Just the instant defrost is worth a dollar to me...
> ...


Unless you have a load hooked to her or have em plugged in they take a long time to come up to temp. Even with the grill cover. I'd die if I didn't have heated seats and wheel.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Without question, a block heater is worth it. The bigger the better (and the cheaper to run). The engine will come up to temp faster, and less wear on all components. Idle 30 seconds and then go.

A 400 watt block heater in a big diesel won't do much plugged in all night drawing 4 KWH of electricity in 10 hours. A 1000 watt on a timer for 2-4 hours before start time uses less power and heats better.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Unless you have a load hooked to her or have em plugged in they take a long time to come up to temp. Even with the grill cover. I'd die if I didn't have heated seats and wheel.


It takes 20 minutes to even get decent heat even if it was plugged in all night. Want to melt the ice on the windshield, not going to happen very fast. 

Heat is a by product of wasted energy, my 454s will put off some heat quickly, the old 7.3psd looses heat at idle. 



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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Golden view said:


> Without question, a block heater is worth it. The bigger the better (and the cheaper to run). The engine will come up to temp faster, and less wear on all components. Idle 30 seconds and then go.
> 
> A 400 watt block heater in a big diesel won't do much plugged in all night drawing 4 KWH of electricity in 10 hours. A 1000 watt on a timer for 2-4 hours before start time uses less power and heats better.


It starts easier, but it still isn't making any heat for a while. 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It takes 20 minutes to even get decent heat even if it was plugged in all night. Want to melt the ice on the windshield, not going to happen very fast.
> 
> Heat is a by product of wasted energy, my 454s will put off some heat quickly, the old 7.3psd looses heat at idle.
> 
> ...


Mine heats up vastly faster when you keep it plugged in...but not idling. Diesels don't really heat up idling.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Diesels don't really heat up idling.


Inherent property of a diesel. Without a throttle body (or one that isn't used the same as a gas engine to create a stoichiometric ratio), it's just pumping cold air through the engine.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Golden view said:


> Inherent property of a diesel. Without a throttle body (or one that isn't used the same as a gas engine to create a stoichiometric ratio), it's just pumping cold air through the engine.


And they are massive, and huge oil reservoir and they are something like 30% more efficient when they burn.


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