# Realistic speed expectations for 10-20 sheets smooth wall



## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm not happy with my drywall sub, but having a hard time finding another good one. I want faster, better quality, and better cleaned up site when done.

Most of my kitchen and bath jobs are this size and generally smooth wall. They are over non ideal substrates, and hanging is generally very slow.

How long should I be expected to wait from hang to skim coat from a competent drywall sub? Speed is worth paying ~20% more.

For reference, I can do a near flawless job in a tiny bathroom solo in 3 days, ready to prime the 4th. I'm not good or fast, so I feel like I should be able to get the same on a larger job from my sub. Hang, prefill, tape and second all on the first day all with hot mud. Heaters and fans to pull moisture. Another coat second day, skim third day.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Tell this sub that that is what you expect and need from him.

Maybe offer an extra 10% if he can comply.

Andy.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I can be there in 3 months . And I'll be done when I hand you the bill!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Is the room a rectangle, or a mess? One guy working, two guys, ??? Are they mostly dryng compound or setting compound?


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

3 days for 4 coats but you're going to pay extra for 2 trips in one day. It is a fair bit of lost time to be bouncing around like that. I normally expected 3 coats in 3 days and could pay a bit extra for 2 days.

Around here we have a lot of plaster so it'd be cheaper to switch to that instead of level 5.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

EthanB said:


> 3 days for 4 coats but you're going to pay extra for 2 trips in one day. It is a fair bit of lost time to be bouncing around like that. I normally expected 3 coats in 3 days and could pay a bit extra for 2 days.
> 
> Around here we have a lot of plaster so it'd be cheaper to switch to that instead of level 5.


Sounds reasonable. Or if the size and timing is right, by the time you finish one coat you can start over again, or maybe with a lunch break.

This guy is done for a number of other reasons. For one, he uses mesh tape on the fast jobs :laughing:


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

20 sheets . 4 1/2 trips = $850 . That's on new studs and no patch ups to the old. :no:


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

And I'm still three months out!!


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Raise your rates, man!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

aptpupil said:


> Raise your rates, man!


This ain't CAli ! There are plenty of one trip cowboys around Here that will cut me in half . Or even less then half.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

If youre three months out, you raise your rates.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

aptpupil said:


> Raise your rates, man!





blacktop said:


> This ain't CAli ! There are plenty of one trip cowboys around Here that will cut me in half . Or even less then half.


I'm lucky to get 55 cent per ft labor hang and finish on new homes . And can still get cut by half at that!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Metro M & L said:


> If youre three months out, you raise your rates.


As of today I'm booked till late September .


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

blacktop said:


> As of today I'm booked till late September .


If they're willing to wait until September them almost all of them would be willing to pay 5-10% more... Worth a thought anyway.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

blacktop said:


> 20 sheets . 4 1/2 trips = $850 . That's on new studs and no patch ups to the old. :no:


I'd pay $2,000, on an old house remodel. Hang half the speed. Spend a couple hours on patches.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

aptpupil said:


> If they're willing to wait until September them almost all of them would be willing to pay 5-10% more... Worth a thought anyway.


I have houses coming out the ground for the future ..no-one waiting that long. I never let anyone wait for more than two weeks or three tops . I'm afraid a price increase on every General would mean job loss .


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Golden view said:


> I'd pay $2,000, on an old house remodel. Hang half the speed. Spend a couple hours on patches.


In that case . I'll put you up front!! I'll be there tomorrow !:laughing:


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Golden view said:


> I'd pay $2,000, on an old house remodel. Hang half the speed. Spend a couple hours on patches.


That sounds more like it. :thumbsup:

Golden, it's hard to find guys good at hanging and finishing remodels. It's a whole other breed of guys and mind sets. 

I've had guys who excell at new construction totally lost on a remodel. 

Good luck!!!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Big Shoe said:


> That sounds more like it. :thumbsup:
> 
> Golden, it's hard to find guys good at hanging and finishing remodels. It's a whole other breed of guys and mind sets.
> 
> ...


OH MY !! Are you serious ? 

There Is no difference between the two ! You place the board and finish it off! Ive done patch work on new homes before the owners ever moved in .. How is that any different from a patch job on a home that's 40 years old?? It's just pushing mud around ! It shouldn't matter how old or new it Is! You either know how to hang and finish drywall or you don't !

If someone told me they only specialize in drywall reno repair...I would call them a painter !!! [and that's putting It nicely !]


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

blacktop said:


> OH MY !! Are you serious ?
> 
> There Is no difference between the two ! You place the board and finish it off! Ive done patch work on new homes before the owners ever moved in .. How is that any different from a patch job on a home that's 40 years old?? It's just pushing mud around ! It shouldn't matter how old or new it Is!



The list of differences is pretty large, at least on the really old ones I work on. Yes, you still fill the same, tape the same, etc, but you actually have to back up to before you hang to figure out how to turn the mess into something worth while. Some you'll do some framing adjustments to get it close enough you can get a decent final look after making up for more slop by busting seams out 2-4 feet. 

Then there's hanging - the pieces may need to be cut on 3 sides to fit, they may need to have a randomly curved side, and on and on. It's fundamentally simple, but you have to be able to figure out the fastest way to do things and have it look good ( it isn't going to be flat, period, but I'm doing level 5 with mostly eggshell, so it has to look flat under whatever lighting conditions I'm dealing with).

You know the drill, but once you get into something that has been hacked up, moved, etc over the years, it's a whole different ball game.

And what you you do with that 1/8" hardboard that has a relief pattern that's direct to studs, and the final finish level has to be the same????

I've seen how you work - I think you could pick it up pretty quick, but not everyone can.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

blacktop said:


> OH MY !! Are you serious ?
> 
> There Is no difference between the two ! You place the board and finish it off! Ive done patch work on new homes before the owners ever moved in .. How is that any different from a patch job on a home that's 40 years old?? It's just pushing mud around ! It shouldn't matter how old or new it Is! You either know how to hang and finish drywall or you don't !
> 
> If someone told me they only specialize in drywall reno repair...I would call them a painter !!! [and that's putting It nicely !]


But you know what? That's a market that can be exploited. Just like plumbers that prefer to stick with service work. In and out, collect, move on.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

blacktop said:


> OH MY !! Are you serious ?



Serious as a heart attack.

I ran crews. Most of them just didn't have the patience.

You are an exception, of course.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

Big Shoe said:


> That sounds more like it. :thumbsup:
> 
> Golden, it's hard to find guys good at hanging and finishing remodels. It's a whole other breed of guys and mind sets.
> 
> ...


Yep. Remodels are whole different animal. :thumbsup: 

I think the biggest difference is most of the new construction drywall finishers never see what their work looks like after it gets painted.
The proofs in the pudding on remodels. :w00t:


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

blacktop said:


> OH MY !! Are you serious ?
> 
> There Is no difference between the two ! You place the board and finish it off! Ive done patch work on new homes before the owners ever moved in .. How is that any different from a patch job on a home that's 40 years old?? It's just pushing mud around ! It shouldn't matter how old or new it Is! You either know how to hang and finish drywall or you don't !
> 
> If someone told me they only specialize in drywall reno repair...I would call them a painter !!! [and that's putting It nicely !]


What's up, exclamation points? Thanks for coming out! 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

aptpupil said:


> Raise your rates, man!


thats my thought, did he say 10 sheets or 20, I hope it was a miss type and it was suppose to be 10

did three patches, insulation, and paint for 1800.00 guy thought I was ripping him off, told him to find someone else

back on track, a week plus for a bathroom drywall where we are replacing 50% of the drywall, is standard in my book


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

blacktop said:


> I'm lucky to get 55 cent per ft labor hang and finish on new homes . And can still get cut by half at that!


ouch again, as it has been said over and over, charge more, work less

too me a long time to understand that


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Only took me 8 months, but I think I found my guy.

Current kitchen. They showed up at 7:30 when I asked them to. Masked windows and trim, papered floors, hung 400sf and applied 3 coats all today. Matched up to and repaired lath and plaster walls. Skim coated old walls.

Worth noting, winter is a good time to find the good subs.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Golden view said:


> Only took me 8 months, but I think I found my guy.
> 
> Current kitchen. They showed up at 7:30 when I asked them to. Masked windows and trim, papered floors, hung 400sf and applied 3 coats all today. Matched up to and repaired lath and plaster walls. Skim coated old walls.
> 
> Worth noting, winter is a good time to find the good subs.


They have obviously done this a bunch. Let us know after the primer is on.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Metro M & L said:


> If youre three months out, you raise your rates.


Depends on what you do. I'd freak out if I was only 12 weeks out. :blink:


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## Kratos (Jan 26, 2017)

I usually charge 3 bucks a board foot for a remodel for anything under 1000 bdft. 20 sheets would run around $2000 hung taped and primed. It would take 3-4 days, I don't use setting compound or mesh tape. I have my labourers hang it if it's a small job or I sub it out to union Boardman if it's a large job. I tape it myself because I'm picky and trying to find decent tapers around here is next to impossible unless you want to pay an arm and a leg.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Depends on what you do. I'd freak out if I was only 12 weeks out. :blink:



Really does depend what you do. Lately I've been taking notes of jobs I've turned down because they didn't want something 3 months out. There might be a profitable business model here. Always ready to start within a couple weeks, but at a big premium.

I always book work farther out but then work seems to come in constantly so maybe I don't need to.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Kratos said:


> I usually charge 3 bucks a board foot for a remodel for anything under 1000 bdft. 20 sheets would run around $2000 hung taped and primed. It would take 3-4 days, I don't use setting compound or mesh tape. I have my labourers hang it if it's a small job or I sub it out to union Boardman if it's a large job. I tape it myself because I'm picky and trying to find decent tapers around here is next to impossible unless you want to pay an arm and a leg.


I got a 32 square foot job for you and I'll round up to $100!


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

blacktop said:


> OH MY !! Are you serious ?
> 
> There Is no difference between the two ! You place the board and finish it off! Ive done patch work on new homes before the owners ever moved in .. How is that any different from a patch job on a home that's 40 years old?? It's just pushing mud around ! It shouldn't matter how old or new it Is! You either know how to hang and finish drywall or you don't !
> 
> If someone told me they only specialize in drywall reno repair...I would call them a painter !!! [and that's putting It nicely !]


A little late on my reply, but 40 years old? Pretty rare to see a house that new.

Think more like 70-110 years old for most of the remodels I do. There will be 150 lath nails per stud, so the demo guys probably missed a few hundred. The lath and plaster ranges from 1/2-1" thick. Match up to that. If you look at it wrong, it cracks, but you have to stop ripping it off somewhere. Each sheet might be as much as an inch out of square.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

Ya, old house remodels are like that. Nothing is square, nothing is flat. The finishing work was the mud mans job, I've had 3" of mud in some areas, been like that for 100 years, guess it was ok. If your replacing with sheetrock, your gonna have to shim that up and level it out before you call your drywaller. Of course a good dry waller can make up quite a bit of strech, but not 3" worth.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Golden view said:


> Really does depend what you do. Lately I've been taking notes of jobs I've turned down because they didn't want something 3 months out. There might be a profitable business model here. Always ready to start within a couple weeks, but at a big premium.
> 
> I always book work farther out but then work seems to come in constantly so maybe I don't need to.


Being design build, it takes months to draw plans, elevations, cross sections, make selections with our decorator or interior designer or at least make a selection sheet for them, write a scope and estimate and attach a contract. Which is why we charge a substantial fee to develop an budget and proposal with the client and have them sign an APS before a second meeting. 

So we are essentially months out anyway. So at 12 weeks I'm sweating about crew and subs staying busy going forward. 

Our Ace in the hole with quick starts is my dad. Having three builders makes it nice, my brother has come along well. My dad has an office trailer, if we have a nice opportunity like the plant work I recently posted about that needs a quick start, he will come out in the field and run some work while doing our design and development stuff in the office trailer on site. We both do sales, probaly 50/50 right now, some times 70/30 either way, but now days he does 99% of the development. My brother does some of the design as well. 

My dad took over a large project for me and started a new construction project so I could run the plant work with less than 2 weeks notice. 

Makes it nice


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

They delivered. 3 days. Hang, tape, match up to lath and plaster, dried it in rainy weather, primed (& backrolled), as close to flawless as any job. Finished tight and clean to the exposed beam, patched some plaster ceiling with a different texture. No other indication they were there. I am happy.

What was my weakest link is now one of my strongest. All my subs up my game.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

No Pic?


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

hdavis said:


> No Pic?


One side of the beam is their old sand texture ceiling living room. The other side is the kitchen and will be smooth all around.

Despite my best efforts, there was a 1/4"+ gap by the beam to the old plaster ceiling, and I ended up cracking some of it when we lifted it. They fixed that right up.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Looks clean from here.:thumbsup:


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Meanwhile, on my other project, I did 4 8s in about 2 weeks.


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