# Decra Tips Needed



## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

I'm quoting a Decra job and I don't have any experience with it. 

The customer is requesting the Villa Tile series. I've read a bunch of the technical information on the Decra site but I'm looking for real world information. 

About the job. 

It's about 52 square: 49 sq is 8/12 and there is about 3 square that is 2/12 as measured by Geo Estimator. I'll field verify that slope. 

It is a hip roof, lots of valleys, wall flashings etc. 

Any help is appreciated.


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

Unless things have changed, its not user friendly. We do stone coated profiles as our bread and butter, this particular profile is difficult. We have not done one in a few years so its possible its resolved. imo, i would cost out the job as if it were a regular stone coated job and then add a couple of days labor to deal with the slower application of this profile.

Maybe Decra can provide you with tech help.

We bid a few hundered square project a month ago, they spec this Decra profile also. Priced it as we normally would have then added a lador for this particular profile. I am basing this off prior experience installing this profile and a former tech advisor for Decra whom also pulled thier hair out over this speicifc product.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

AndyWRS said:


> Unless things have changed, its not user friendly. We do stone coated profiles as our bread and butter, this particular profile is difficult. We have not done one in a few years so its possible its resolved. imo, i would cost out the job as if it were a regular stone coated job and then add a couple of days labor to deal with the slower application of this profile.
> 
> Maybe Decra can provide you with tech help.
> 
> We bid a few hundered square project a month ago, they spec this Decra profile also. Priced it as we normally would have then added a lador for this particular profile. I am basing this off prior experience installing this profile and a former tech advisor for Decra whom also pulled thier hair out over this speicifc product.


Now you're scaring me! 

Thanks, I'd rather be forewarned and go in with my eyes open. Can you be little more specific about the challenges? Then, when I contact the Decra rep, I'll be able to specifically address the issue(s). Otherwise, when I talk to them, I'll get the company line about how great the product is and how fast it gets installed. 

Do you have another product suggestion for a woman who wants the barrel tile style roof?


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

Andy, have you had any experience with the GAF Manaco Series? http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residential/Products/Shingles/Designer/Monaco/Monaco-Shingles.aspx

I've been told that these shingles give a very realistic tile look but I haven't run across any in my travels yet.


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

90% of what we do is stone coated steel, some SS and very little comp. I am not familar with the Manaco at all. 

The 300 square villa we bid is gable to gable no hips or valleys, yours on the other hand is cut up and some what pitchy. If its the hidden fastener system of the villa tile they like then your stuck. I am not a big fan of them. Hopefully someone else who has installed one recently can give us thier two cents on the villa vs other similar products.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

AndyWRS said:


> 90% of what we do is stone coated steel, some SS and very little comp. I am not familar with the Manaco at all.
> 
> The 300 square villa we bid is gable to gable no hips or valleys, yours on the other hand is cut up and some what pitchy. If its the hidden fastener system of the villa tile they like then your stuck. I am not a big fan of them. Hopefully someone else who has installed one recently can give us thier two cents on the villa vs other similar products.


The installation process I'm seeing shows all fasteners exposed. They are driven into the bottom of the lapped tile. It's still possible to install from the top down, which is a benefit on a steep slope such as the 8/12 I'm quoting. 

The installation looks very simple on all the field tiles. Of course, the devil is in the valleys and hips. 

The puzzling thing in my mind is how to deal with the cut edges on the valleys. They seem to be showing them turned down, which seems impossible on a barrel tile.


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

Hmmm, interesting. 

As far as i know its hidden fasteners in the back with the nose that locks into the peice below...making it a bottom up installation only. I could be wrong.

As for the valleys, hips and side wall there is no bend downs / bend ups. It is cut straight off with a shear or saw. This particular product terminates into villa valley or villa chanel. Decra tile would normally get bent up to a side wall or bent down into a valley. Villa has specific valley and side wall chanel similar to tile pan for concrete roofs.

After googling i found that the product is infact hidden fasteners and the problem was the interlocking of the nose to the tile below it. This is exactly the issues we were having. The resulting fix was to screw from the top...defeating the purpose of the hidden fasteners type product is was supose to be. The post was from 2010, has it been resolved is the question...that i dont know.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

AndyWRS said:


> Hmmm, interesting.
> 
> As far as i know its hidden fasteners in the back with the nose that locks into the peice below...making it a bottom up installation only. I could be wrong.
> 
> As for the valleys, hips and side wall there is no bend downs / bend ups. It is cut straight off with a shear or saw. This particular product terminates into villa valley or villa chanel. Decra tile would normally get bent up to a side wall or bent down into a valley. Villa has specific valley and side wall chanel similar to tile pan for concrete roofs.


Yes, I did see them shearing the product with a shear. And yes, they do have specific channels for the hips valleys and sidewalls. 

They must have changed the fastening system based on the troubles that you, and others were having. It looks very easy on the youtube videos.


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

can you link the vids.

I saw 1 and was just a ridge install.

Cover yourself, call Decra and ask. I do not think its changed at all, even the Decra site says hidden fasteners. I will be confirming this also, i need to know for sure.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXrGxfDf_Qo&feature=related
http://www.decra.com/resource-articles/tile-shake-and-shingle-plus-installation-video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqxUI_EhltQ&feature=related

Were some of the ones I viewed. I probably clicked in a few more but the product installation guide from Decra showed it best.

I saw a ridge install video too that was useless.


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

The installation of villa tile is not shown in any of those vids. They appear to be old installation vids.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

AndyWRS said:


> The installation of villa tile is not shown in any of those vids. They appear to be old installation vids.


Now I'm confused. Are we talking about the same roof? 

The middle link was taken directly from Decra's site. It is their current installation video!


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

JIm does that tile need to be installed on battens?


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> JIm does that tile need to be installed on battens?


Yes, the battens are nailed on 14.5" centers (for the Villa) and the bottom of the tile is nailed into the batten through the two tiles. http://www.decra.com/architectural-details/arch-detail-pdf/Arch2003-1-01c.pdf


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

Villa is battenless / direct to deck 

Your diagram lists batten spacing for Decra shake, Decra tile ( Tile is not villa) and Decra Shingle plus.

Villa Tile and Decra Tile are two different profiles. Villa is also hidden fasteners and the Decra Tile is exposed fasteners. 

------------------------------------------------

According to the install manual they have addressed the issue many folks had. The issue was when you fastened the tiles; the middle portion would not lock into the panel below. The fix was to screw it down. If you look in the installation manual you will now see specific fastening instructions. I have not tried this, but according the manual you need to fasten the tiles from the middle and then the outside. Take a look at the diagram in the manual on pages 7 and 9. This probably does help, but I still feel the installation could be a lot slower, I am sure there is a learning curve with this particular product. Unless you do Villa every week and know this product, I do not think you can do it in the same time it would take for a Decra Tile job. 

A word of caution. If you have not installed Decra Tiles, or a similar stone coated product, and are not familiar with walking on these particular roofs, you probably would not want to do Villa. Villa has a higher profile and is more difficult to walk on. You will dent it. The same goes for Dura Loc Continental and Metro Roman. These two are exposed fastener systems where the Decra Villa is the same profile type but hidden fasteners.

Villa info http://www.decra.com/all-products/decra-villa-tile 
DL the complete install guide and refer to pages 7 and 9 http://www.decra.com/technical-documents/villa-installation-guide Fastening panels - first course & fastening panels - field

I hope this is helping and not confusing you even more.


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

jimAKAblue said:


> Now I'm confused. Are we talking about the same roof?
> 
> The middle link was taken directly from Decra's site. It is their current installation video!


There is no vid for the installation of Decra Villa. The vid your watching is old and is specifically for Decra Tile, Decra Shake and Shingle Plus as noted at the top of the video. Why they dont have a video of it i do not know. This is adding to the confusion, the site info is not current.

Hope that clears it up for you.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

AndyWRS said:


> There is no vid for the installation of Decra Villa. The vid your watching is old and is specifically for Decra Tile, Decra Shake and Shingle Plus as noted at the top of the video. Why they dont have a video of it i do not know. This is adding to the confusion, the site info is not current.
> 
> Hope that clears it up for you.


Yes, that cleared it up Andy: many thanks. 

I appreciate the warning about denting the Decra Tile too. I'm currently searching for a qualified subcontract installer and I'll be sure to address that particular issue with a clause in the subcontract agreement. I will ask that everyone that is going up on the roof initial the PDF warning document about where they can step. I'll also include a clause that spells out the damages for each panel that has to be replaced if they are dented. 

Regarding the installation of the Decra Tile, with battens: if I were running the job, I'd personally supervise/install all the edge framing, making sure that it was dead straight and in the proper plane. I'd then personally supervise/install all the edge metal and channels. While I was doing that, I'd let the other mechanics install the battens. 

After getting all the hip, ridge and valley channels run, I'd immediately start running the panels that tie into them. I wouldn't do any of the field panels until each section was completely edged. Upon finishing up the perimeter in each section, I'd let the mechanics run the field panels from the top down. 

In theory, no one would ever have to walk on the finished roof. I'd insist that every detail be attended to, as the installation proceeded.

Does that sound like a plan that would reduce the chances of dented panels?


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

Just to be clear, we are now talking about Decra Tile with battens and not the Villa battenless.

When you install Decra Tile with battens you need to batten the home then install the metal edge, valleys and Rake metal. The metal edge is to cover the 2x2 batten build up. The 7" W valley gets nailed or screwed to the battens. You would need the battens installed in order to fasten the valley in place. The metal edge and the valley details are high visability and need to be installed with care. It is a good idea to inspect them prior to the tiles being nailed over the metal edge. Best to correct it while the tiles are not installed, than after. 

Also, it is common practice with Decra Tile to install the first full course down from the ridge. Nail the back so it doesnt move and then proceed to lay the entire field down to the fascia board. Then it is nailed or screwed in place once all the full tiles are in. On runs with very long rafter lengths you may need to tack the field in place as you go to prevent it slipping off the battens.

There are no hip or ridge channels to install with Decra Tile. The tiles are bend up 2" to the stacked 2x2s on the hip or ridge. This is the way most stone coated products are installed except the villa wich does use Villa chanel at the hips.

Any contractor that has done numrous Decra Tile type installs with have a crew that can walk on Villa without too much concern. 

Decra Tile will be walked on repeatedly during the installation of the roof. You can only minimize it by laying and completely section at a time...but your walking on it to install the valley, hip, ridge cuts. Then again to install the barrel trim and seal vent pipes ect...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Tom Struble said:


> JIm does that tile need to be installed on battens?


do i ask the best questions or what?:smartass:


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## AndyWRS (Sep 12, 2010)

The Decra website is lacking and confusing when it comes to Villa Tile. We can all just blame them.

Not enough detail in the drawings to understand the difference between the Tile and Villa profiles. No vid showing the installation of Villa. The installation manual helps, but it leaves many more questions. They need a Vid to go along with the Install manual showing the details.

FYI other battenless products can be installed on battens. If we do a Metro II shake job thats 10/12 or more then we do battens. I dont think Villa can be installed on battens but the OP does has some pitchy sections to deal with. I figured i would leave that out instead of confuse the issue more. 8/12 is doable with no battens.


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