# How to deal with extreme haggling?



## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

The goal of the first meeting for me is to estimate it, explain it and then get a deposit. Will try to write more later.


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## Philament (Dec 9, 2014)

I had a similar situation this summer for a couple who wanted their whole house painted. I'm fairly new to the sales aspect of a business like you and I was really taken back by the extreme (from my point of view) aggressive negotiation tactics, everything from the day and time I was to come to take a look at it to the kind of paint I should use, to how they wanted the quote broken down. The part where you talked about the wife just going in circles without listening to anything took me for a head spin. I was woefully unprepared for what felt like a hostile negotiation. So many red flags went up that I put a 20% PITA factor on the quote. I ended up turning it down because I didn't know how to deal with it properly. Still to this day she calls me or stops me at another job site (she's the friend of the neighbour of my client) and still wants to haggle with me. 

I really like your optimism and viewing it more as a business challenge than a personal attack. The sales aspect is my weakest point and something I'm trying to work on. I have been working on a strictly referral basis thus far and have used a take it or leave it approach to my quotes (as one member said "There are no deals in home renovation, you get what you pay for"), but I'm starting to rethink some of that. As with renovations, there's different tools for different jobs, so too there must be different sales tactics for different personality types so long as you know your numbers well and know what your bottom line has to be. 

As for how/when to quote and sign contract, I never give a number on the spot, too many things to forget. I do however throw out ball park numbers of certain things that I know very well to gauge their reaction to the number, or I ask what their budget is to get a sense of if it's worth my time (David Gerstel talks about this in "Running a Successful Construction Company"). I send the quote by email which includes the draw schedule and deposit amount. If they're agreeable to the quote, I go back and give them the contract and get the deposit at the same time. 

I'm just learning the business side of things, so I'm curious to learn how others deal with type of situation as well.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Just think about this for a moment...and try looking at this from a different prospective.

As a professional you go to conduct your business in a professional manner.
Just being there its already costing you, your travel time, gas, etc. Now you spend more time to get material cost and what ever you need to do the job, you also need a little extra in there if you run into something you're covered. Now you add your overhead and your profit ( this is what is keeping you in business)
Now you go and submit the price and right off the back they want you to take a few hundred off just to feel you out and if they feel your weakness they will take you for everything you got. If you think you gonna jack it up and knock it down, you only fooling yourself, this people already know what they wanna pay before you get there, and you not the first guy at the door, there is a few ahead of you and a few will follow the minute you leave theirs house and they will settle on the lowest price and they will expect top notch job, or you will have headaches if you don't provide just that. Before you know they will become inconsiderate, rude and disrespectful if they feel they got you by your OO and they do, because you dropped the cost and you need every penny that is left to make money.

My advise to you, be firm with your prices and stick to your worth... Don't let anyone tell you that you worth less or what you should charge, and you want to have customers who will appreciate your quality work and who will respect you as a professional contractor and pay your price... just like you pay no matter where you go, stores, doctors, mechanics, etc.

Good luck :thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Keep in mind, Hindis get work done all the time. They'll build huge houses and major renovations for their extended family. Learning to do business with them effectively can give you a leg up.

Don't confuse haggling with lowest price. Even if you're the choice head and shoulders above other contractors, customs are customs. They'll spend huge amounts of money and spare no expense for things they value - like their equivalent of a sweet 16 party (or cotillion).


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> The next time I have an Indian doc I'm going to haggle the bill.


Off the subject but I've actually done that. I haggle with my Indian doctor on the copay and the the price of the lab work. Insurance covers all of my visits but it's fun to see a $300 bill get knocked down $230.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Haggling is very common with Indian people, I have several long time Indian customers and 2 of them right at the start tried haggling with me and I just started to walk away and they apologized. The guy who gave both of them my name called me up the next day and also apologized and explained why they are like that and everything has been great since.

Apparently in India haggling goes on for everything, and if they dont at least try they fear they will be seen as weak. Prices are inflated because everyone knows they will come down.

I have had a few Jewish people do the same thing years ago but that happened when the job was all finished and they gave me checks with the wrong amount. The one guy told me that was his last check, I said get in my truck I will drive you to the bank. He found another one.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Coming from England I had to work with s lot of them. My best mates mum is fully blown Indian and even he is blown away by how tight she is. He's a contractor too. 

The way to deal with them is if job is $2k you double it. So your at $4k then when they haggle you tell them you will knock 40% of that price. They think they got a good deal and you still get what you were asking then a little more because they will be fussy. But my advice is steer clear of you don't want the hassle.


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## Jaxyaks (Nov 7, 2014)

I have a special pricing scale for them as well or I don't do work for em, depends on how busy I am


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## DannyP (Dec 18, 2014)

greg24k said:


> Just think about this for a moment...and try looking at this from a different prospective.
> 
> As a professional you go to conduct your business in a professional manner.
> Just being there its already costing you, your travel time, gas, etc. Now you spend more time to get material cost and what ever you need to do the job, you also need a little extra in there if you run into something you're covered. Now you add your overhead and your profit ( this is what is keeping you in business)
> ...


I like this way of thinking, and usually think like this, in that we have in common. However, my pride lost that sale today. was a one day job and $400.00 bucks gone. I know that I did the right thing though, I just could not believe they haggled me after I has purchased the material, and was driving out there, simply did not see that one coming man. These people have a 500k house, (sighs) its just crazy. I did the right thing but was it the strategic thing to do? Could I have done anything different? I'm not desperate for business, but i'm hungry for success and feel like I failed today. My goal is to build, higher help, sub out, maybe have a shop.

I need to figure out how to counter haggle these people. Inflating prices is one way, but the most obvious. is there any other way to make them feel as if they have won? Maybe set a price in a quote, give them the quote, then act like you made a huge mistake in the measurement or whatever, act really desperate and tell them sorry and that you need to remeasure because your off by 100sq ft. At this point, that could induce the haggling process, they will become upset and say "NO, You gave me this quote" you nearly plead with them that you wont make any money like that, then inflate them, tell them that you like them, and had such good ideas and really wanted the job and eventually give in. If you could make them feel as if they won, then maybe you can come out on top. Something like this, some counter strategy What do you think? Any ideas? If anything its fun to think about.


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## littlefred811 (Dec 16, 2012)

To answer the original question, when they try to haggle you down, I stand my ground. Of course, if I can tell they are going to be a PITA, I start haggling up. Good for the goose is good for the gander.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

DannyP said:


> If you could make them feel as if they won, then maybe you can come out on top. Something like this, some counter strategy What do you think? Any ideas? If anything its fun to think about.


Every buying decision that the customer makes ends up being an emotional one. If you appeal to their emotions, you can charge them twice the price and still make them feel that they got the better end of the agreement.

That's what the art of the deal is all about. Car dealers do it all the time when they offer you a price or payment that's beyond what you're comfortable with. So when you tell them that you want to pay a little less, the sales guy says, "Oh shucks! My manager is going to FLIP the HECK out! I might lose my job over this... man oh man.. I'll be sleeping on the sofa tonight when my wife finds out I'm out of a job.. the boss is gonna rake me over the coals. BUT because you seem like nice people, I'll put my neck on the line. I'll be right back." So while you think that the sales guy is getting reamed a new one by his superiors, he's outside smoking a cigarette and laughing at you with the other sales guys. 

So once he comes back suggesting that he suffered a great deal of humility and submission for your sake, you don't mind meeting him half way.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

This is ridiculous. None of us should be working for cheap, all it does is hurt everyone in our fields. If someone complains about $37 tell them to ****off. I don't care what their culture is.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

OP- you learned more than one lesson! Forget the Indian part of the lesson....they are good people and if you want to earn their business you will master parts of their culture. Focus on:
1. Not letting people buy their own products, HTF are you going to warranty your installation if they buy crap? How TF are you going to manage your schedule if they buy products that are back ordered, not ready, of different dye lots....you buy materials from your trusted suppliers. You show up with all the correct products that include a profit margin and life will flow so much easier. 

2. As others mentioned a signed contract.

3. If you are picking up supplies that a customer was suppose to provide, you need to get paid "port to port" (from your home to the supply store and back to your home). $37 or whatever the price is aside, it cost you your hourly rate, you mileage rate, van insurance rate, oh and profit. If you are operating your van (or whatever you drive) and billing much under a dollar a mile plus your labor rates and profit you are enjoying a hobby not a business.


I could go on and on...don't want to beat you up on basic business stuff...dig your heals in and you will look back at this thread and laugh in a few years. 

On a side note, GF and I travel to Jamaica a few months back, she dislikes when I haggle and I generally haggle HARD in Jamaica. She gets some really bad ear infection that made her all screwed up an unable to travel back home. I drop her off at Dr Ganga (close but not the same as ganja) and after 30 minutes she comes out saying he (Indian) wants $300. She wants to walk out...I force her to go back in and she oddly being I'll strikes up a deal for I think $100....but still thinks it's too much and is trying to drag me out of the room. It throw cash on the Dr's desk and we walk out with the meds and paying for his services. Point of the story is that we got the price we wanted because we were able to walk away from a deal. In every deal one or more people are able to walk away....when you hand over a contract/proposal, are you able to walk away if it's not on your terms?

Good luck


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## [email protected] (Nov 17, 2014)

I stand my ground with my estimates, never once haggled a price I tell them I'm too busy to full around with negotiations. When I answer my phone and am asked to do an estimate I always kindly note to them Im booked two to three months out, that usually weeds out the people wanting things done cheap and quick, those who want quality are willing to wait, those are the customers worth dealing with, and they generally are just amiable people. 

One of my helpers who came from a cheap tile contractor asked me the other day why my customers are always so nice


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

So what if "they" use the internet and see similar posts via google and want to haggle past your cushion amount?

Price what you need, stick to your price, win some, lose some. (I know...easier said than done sometimes)


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

I have worked with this particular group of people for some time now. In general, they want carpet removed and replaced with hardwood floors, they want electric stove removed and gas appliances, they want fake hood replaced with real vented hood. We have a temple in town so I get a lot of referrals from this group of people. 

The one thing I learned from a lot of these people from this group is that they have a pecking order. They have admitted/said to me that they want to show off their home and their "belongings". They like a "bargin", but they want the best. 

My standard speech to these individuals from this particular group is "Most of your neighbors cannot afford me"! Are you sure that you can. I am very qualified and experienced and can be expensive. Are you sure you can afford me?

One particular man told me it was a kitchen remodel or a BMW, I told him take the BMW because it was cheaper. He chose me for more than double the price.

You have to know what you are selling, and it is not price.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

PCI said:


> The one thing I learned from a lot of these people from this group is that they have a pecking order. They have admitted/said to me that they want to show off their home and their "belongings". They like a "bargin", but they want the best.
> 
> .
> .
> ...


There you go.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

tedanderson said:


> Every buying decision that the customer makes ends up being an emotional one. If you appeal to their emotions, you can charge them twice the price and still make them feel that they got the better end of the agreement.
> 
> That's what the art of the deal is all about. Car dealers do it all the time when they offer you a price or payment that's beyond what you're comfortable with. So when you tell them that you want to pay a little less, the sales guy says, "Oh shucks! My manager is going to FLIP the HECK out! I might lose my job over this... man oh man.. I'll be sleeping on the sofa tonight when my wife finds out I'm out of a job.. the boss is gonna rake me over the coals. BUT because you seem like nice people, I'll put my neck on the line. I'll be right back." So while you think that the sales guy is getting reamed a new one by his superiors, he's outside smoking a cigarette and laughing at you with the other sales guys.
> 
> So once he comes back suggesting that he suffered a great deal of humility and submission for your sake, you don't mind meeting him half way.


Ted is right, this is also why they will offer you 3 free oil changes, you now feel as though they have done something for you and in return you must do something for them, ie buy the vehicle. Its called Quid pro quo.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

DannyP said:


> I just could not believe they haggled me after I has purchased the material, and was driving out there, simply did not see that one coming man. These people have a 500k house, (sighs) its just crazy. I did the right thing but was it the strategic thing to do? Could I have done anything different? I'm not desperate for business, but i'm hungry for success and feel like I failed today. My goal is to build, higher help, sub out, maybe have a shop.
> 
> I need to figure out how to counter haggle these people.


_I just could not believe they haggled me after I has purchased the material, and was driving out there, simply did not see that one coming man. _

Danny first of all didn't you have a contract signed before you got the material? If you had a contract signed they cannot haggle you. That is breach of contract on theirs part, you can collect your profit simply on the principle without doing the job. Done that a few times and got good money for it.

_I need to figure out how to counter haggle these people._

Don't waste your time on this, because doing that you opening yourself up for haggle and you will not get the job and this is your perfect example.

You do as you want because this is your business, but I'm sure many will agree with me who been doing this for a while, stay firm with your price...and when they start to haggle you simply say " This is my price and if its above your anticipated budget you have to find someone else." 
This will not only earn you respect, this will also indicate you are a professional, and this your business and this is what you need to charge to stay in it. Period.

If you open yourself for haggling, you're done... you lose respect as a businessman, you display weakness, you display sign of being desperate and they will railroad you through out the whole job and at the end you be at theirs Mercy to collect.

I know sometimes its not easy to walk away, depends on your position... but that is something you have to do to run a successful business, and believe you me my friend, I took chances by standing my ground and willing to walk away at times when I needed that job the most and during times when I tried to keep my head above the water just to pay bills and you know something it paid off and I got this jobs and some even said "you got the job because you didn't budge your price and that is why we hired you, knowing it will be done" 

With that said, this is just me and my way of doing things, you do what you think is best for you and what ever principles you set, don't break them, they will not do you wrong and even save your A$$ at times.

Good luck


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## elite-roofing (Jun 13, 2014)

Agree with everything said in this thread. Only thing I would add is that you need some ammunition to counter the continual price drop argument. When they say "I thought you were supplying grout etc." you need in your quiver an arrow like "Yes, we need to make sure all services are being paid for properly. You were supposed to prepare the surface before I did the tile work. It took me an hour to do that and I think we must raise the price $xx." This is how they haggle. Requires back and forth not just back.....then customer pay original price AND be happy about it.

Jesse
Elite Roofing and Remodel
http://www.eliteroofingremodel.com


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

elite-roofing said:


> Agree with everything said in this thread. Only thing I would add is that you need some ammunition to counter the continual price drop argument. When they say "I thought you were supplying grout etc." you need in your quiver an arrow like "Yes, we need to make sure all services are being paid for properly. You were supposed to prepare the surface before I did the tile work. It took me an hour to do that and I think we must raise the price $xx." This is how they haggle. Requires back and forth not just back.....then customer pay original price AND be happy about it.
> 
> Jesse
> Elite Roofing and Remodel
> http://www.eliteroofingremodel.com


I don't think this is the best advice. Setting a price then going oh we didn't add a b and c so now the price is y instead of x isn't a good way to operate. 

What you describe sounds more like you settle on a price for work, without fully describing what is involved then when do go to the HO and go well I did all this as extra's so now I want more money.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGy0N9SW82c


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## river rider (Dec 31, 2012)

In my view, haggling is something that (may) be done to REACH an agreement. It's not the term I'd consider it when you BREACH an agreement. 

How to deal with it is a judgment call we each have to make considering the circumstances & our situation. I've eaten a bunch of crap over the years, and I've also pushed back really hard. Good for you for standing up for yourself was my first thought on this. Hope you didn't get stuck with bags of tangerine breeze grout or something. Doctor no less. 37 bucks. What a piece.

I would feel no great urge to be "culturally tolerant" or especially understanding on a situation like this. I don't see it as that kind of a matter. I wouldn't care if they guy was purple & from pluto. Is a plutonian weasel still not a weasel?

I shouldn't insult weasels like that. Actually a damned impressive family of creatures.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

I didn't read through all the comments but I did pick up on some advise to mark up and the accept a lower price if haggled down, hopefully you get the price you were willing to work for. I have to disagree with this strategy for a contractor.
I think what is tried and true is to work up your price / quote / estimate for what you are willing to do it for. You need to make sure you have allowed for all contingencies, and make a profit on top of your wages. Do not disclose your hourly rate it will only cause grief.
Give customer your price and have them sign quote / estimate or contract. Agree to a start date. If at this point they want to haggle you down then simply say no, now if you want to reduce the scope of the work then that is a different matter that you are willing to do. 
I think by agreeing to lower your price you simply prove to the customer that you had padded the price. If you can't agree then walk away. 
For some it will never be cheap enough. 
Good luck.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Tell him to GFYS.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

BTW when you hear the habib on your machine just hit delete and save yourself the aggravation.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

JBM said:


> BTW when you hear the habib on your machine just hit delete and save yourself the aggravation.


Habib is middle eastern, different way of working with them as well. They like to trade services. 

I thought I was the only person in this conundrum. Business is located in a town that is 60% Asian/East Indian. Most drive BMW, Mercedes and are engineers and doctors but want work done for next to nothing. Homes in this area are 750k and upwards, three car garage looks nice but typical cookie cutter developer special interiors. I try not to take it personally and think that it's just a part of their nature. But I always get that nagging feeling that somehow they don't consider our work to be important. I once had someone argue over a $14 difference. But when the BMW or Honda dealer says it's will be $x,*** to change fluids they don't flinch. Our prices are already low because Estimating is an acquired skill and we are just a couple years in. So it really pisses me off when they say "oh that's too expensive, I got a quote for" cause then I know they are lying to me. We are seriously considering moving the business to a different part of NJ. As a minority I understand cultural differences but I just can't accommodate it anymore. I don't want to be the contractor that doesn't call back or discriminates but that is essentially what customer qualifying is.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

It's a good idea to learn how not to offend people, but apart from that, never mind the culture or origin of the prospective customer. Figure out the principles of your business - how you need to operate to support yourself and your family - and stick to them. That includes pricing, how to respond to hagglers, etc.

Trying to build a culture-specific negotiating strategy around your misunderstandings and prejudices about other people is a mistake. Stick to what you know - yourself and your business. To thine own self be true.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tedanderson said:


> Every buying decision that the customer makes ends up being an emotional one. If you appeal to their emotions, you can charge them twice the price and still make them feel that they got the better end of the agreement.
> 
> That's what the art of the deal is all about. Car dealers do it all the time when they offer you a price or payment that's beyond what you're comfortable with. So when you tell them that you want to pay a little less, the sales guy says, "Oh shucks! My manager is going to FLIP the HECK out! I might lose my job over this... man oh man.. I'll be sleeping on the sofa tonight when my wife finds out I'm out of a job.. the boss is gonna rake me over the coals. BUT because you seem like nice people, I'll put my neck on the line. I'll be right back." So while you think that the sales guy is getting reamed a new one by his superiors, he's outside smoking a cigarette and laughing at you with the other sales guys.
> 
> So once he comes back suggesting that he suffered a great deal of humility and submission for your sake, you don't mind meeting him half way.


And that's why calling someone a used car salesmen isn't a compliment.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

We have a customer who is indian--- we have worked on his home several times with ZERO issues, ZERO haggling.

he is a doctor---and his wife is as well.
I think they work different shifts because generally the wife is at work and the husband at home when we are there.

I handle this guy the same as everyone else.

I make an appointment and go to the meeting. Generally we shake hands.

If the customer immediately wants to get down to business we do---- but generally there is some chit chat. In this case--- the customer has a VERY old and absolutely magnificent Akita asleep on the front terrace/veranda----we talk about what a great dog he is.

Indian guy shows me his problem.
I investigate from the roof top

I write out detailed proposal in truck with firm pricing. In our original project I had to have some roof tile custom manufactured and shipped in from out of state. I STILL gave him a price right there on the first trip.

Back up to the door where I explain my diagnosis--- what the problem is and how I am going to solve it.. I let the guy read through the proposal step by step.

I mention that my family has been tradesmen in this town for 5 generations--- I am generation 4, my sons are generation 5. We chat about how some of the exact tools/equipment we use every day---were my fathers and grandfathers......... Oh, and by the way this is the price, of course.

customer MAYBE has some question about the price and I say " Oh, i AM sorry, but I have been doing this a loooooong time. I know how long this project is going to take, how dangerous it is going to be, and what everything is going to cost. I really can't do anything about the price..

end of story---- there is the sale.

that eve. the wife calls---- I verbally go through the entire diagnosis/proposal with her on the phone and she says--- " I understand---we VERY much want you to do the project"

Big house--- not quite enormous. there is a 4-5 car garage UNDER the house. Very nice house--- but not my style- much more suitable for india, I imagine than NE ohio. It's more of a family compound than a house--- though the interior courtyard IS enclosed.

Excellent customers

Stephen


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

Stephen H said:


> We have a customer who is indian--- we have worked on his home several times with ZERO issues, ZERO haggling.
> 
> he is a doctor---and his wife is as well.
> I think they work different shifts because generally the wife is at work and the husband at home when we are there.
> ...


I have a few like that, they are younger or have been here longer and are more Americanized? I've had time to think about it but As a first generation American, coming from a family of immigrants, I "think" haggling is the norm especially if you or your family have no experience of home ownership. Everything would seem a little high if you didn't understand from the get go that homes (just like cars) require maintenance. traditionally in my culture men work in construction and women are nurses so we've got home improvement covered. Although I studied assimilation, I cannot recall any theories that pertain particularly to haggling. My husband is half Indian and couldn't shed any light. I did ask my bestie who is Chinese and she said "that's how we keep our wealth" . Then again the Chinese and Chinese Americans have their own economy within the America. Every business, education, home is bought with cash from the community and then you pay it forward. It's truly fascinating.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

When I'm building a new home to sell and I built quiet a few homes on spec and sold to people from India, I never had an issue because haggling simply wasn't an option and you in control of everything, not to mention some do appreciate quality and have no problem paying for it.

But again, the majority (90%) of customers who haggle and will bring unlicensed trade in to do the work (I speak for my area) unfortunately exceeds the % of customers who appreciate quality work and have no problems paying for it. So taking this numbers its not even worth the time, especially when in 20 years I didn't do 1 job involving trade work (carpentry).
Also keep in mind there is a huge difference when you hired to do trade work and when you do GC work when allot more money and time involved in a project and the rates they want you to do the job for,can be compared with what you get for managing a Burger joint.
Sad thing is they do find people on Craig's list etc who take on this jobs at this rates and these customers always get screwed and they end up with sub-standard work or the guys just take a large chunk of money upfront and leave the job unfinished and this happens way to often. After that happens same people call you and beg you to finish that job and again, now they out all that money and they expect you to feel bad for them, and when you ask them what the guy charged you to do this they show you a piece of paper with a ridiculous price.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

you mentioned the use of QB's...I use QB's invoices only as a means of tracking finances/jobs for purposes of keeping the money straight and use word documents for writing contracts. This applies to the style of jobs that I do which are 3 day to 6 weeks. The contract has all the important details, if you wanted to provide an invoice through QB's you could, but the contract has the draws or payment details included. Every payment/draw, I'll note amount/date and sign on both copies and any changes to the contract are noted on both copies-at the same time in front of the customer when possible.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> It's a good idea to learn how not to offend people, but apart from that, never mind the culture or origin of the prospective customer. Figure out the principles of your business - how you need to operate to support yourself and your family - and stick to them. That includes pricing, how to respond to hagglers, etc.
> 
> Trying to build a culture-specific negotiating strategy around your misunderstandings and prejudices about other people is a mistake. Stick to what you know - yourself and your business. To thine own self be true.


I'm mixed on this one - I think it's generally good advice, and certainly prejudices and misunderstanding is a bad place to start for doing business. I also think it's a bad practice to develop some form of schizophrenic approach to dealing with customers.

On the other hand, people in companies with a lot of international exposure have to deal with cultural differences every day. It can be necessary and profitable, but much of the foreign business men have already adjusted (to an extent) to the US way of doing business. I think it boils down to how necessary it is for and individual contractor to be able to service a particular market.

I don't think it really makes a difference what the national origin of a customer is, if they're trying to renegotiate in the middle of a project, that should be handled in a consistent manner. I don't think that any could do something that isn't already tried by plenty of other people - just read all the horror stories...


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

*Whats the deal*

When you click on this tread <go to the last post> icon it redirects you to youtube webpage.

It only does it on this post!?


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## [email protected] (Nov 10, 2014)

Once a customer is able to haggle the price, that customer will continue to look for other places to haggle. While you're dealing with a cultural issue, generally speaking quotes should be final. It reassures "most" customers that they are getting an honest offer and that others haven't gotten better deals than you because they haggled harder.

I know it's off topic from contracting, but look at a place like CarMax. They buy millions of cars each year, and there offer is non-negotiable. It gives the customer less anxiety or buyer/seller remorse, because many people are uncomfortable with haggling/negotiating. IMO


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## jocobe (Nov 1, 2005)

It's a cultural thing, it's hard not to take personally sometimes.

If I follow up on open estimates, it's the adjectives that are offensive.

"Your price was exorbitant."

"Way out of line"

"Can't believe how expensive you are"

So, some people I just don't follow up on anymore.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

My SIL is Indian, I am well aware of the ins and outs of their culture and most of which has been said is true. In their culture they do not feel like they are getting a good value unless they haggle. But my thoughts are you are no longer in India. We don't operate like that. If I went to India, I would respect your customs and traditions. Same goes for when you come to my country. Respect how we do business here.

When I get a call from an Indian, I expect haggling. I don't play the game though. I explain to them that I give them the best rock bottom price that I can. I explain why my cost is my cost (someone once posted a sheet that laid out overhead perfectly, this is what I hand to them when they want to haggle and question why I am "so high".

I just had a potential client send me this:
_
"Hi Bob,

Thanks for the estimate, but we will probably be working with someone else, your estimate was more than twice as much as the other 3 estimates we got. Thanks again.

Betty"_

This is what I sent back:

_"Betty,

No problem. Like I said or methods and materials are on the expensive side, but they will last a life time. Make sure that they are waterproofing the walls and making a proper tie into the shower pan

Check to make sure that they are legit. A lot of "contractors" don't carry liability insurance or it often doesn't cover what they are doing in your home. Make sure that you get a copy of their current policy and call to confirm you are covered. 

Secondly check for Workers Comp insurance. If they don't have it, your home owners policy covers then, and they won't be happy if their is a claim. 

Third get references. I always give the last three projects that we completed. This ensures that one is not cherry picking references.

And last of all, make sure you check out there work. I have several customers who gladly open their home for my prospective clients. You can see, touch and experience my work. 

Hope that helps.

Thank you,

Rob"_


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I also doubt they got three other estimates. Maybe one or two others, but not three. So I knew that they were just price shopping and seeing if I would come down.

No response to my last e-mail.


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## Jeremiah2911 (Jan 2, 2014)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I also doubt they got three other estimates. Maybe one or two others, but not three. So I knew that they were just price shopping and seeing if I would come down.
> 
> No response to my last e-mail.


Ran out of thanks a while ago but you're right, we aren't in such and such country anymore. If you're gonna assimilate then try to do it fully and I say this as the first American born in my family. It's conflicting deciding what you will hold onto and celebrate culturally but haggling shouldn't be a priority. And I think it's one thing to negotiate and plead your case if there are extenuating circumstances but to devalue our work (and tell your neighbors) simply because you want to is disrespect in my eyes. 

I gotta work on my script for the hagglers though.


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## All in One Reno (Dec 10, 2014)

When you present the estimate to the homeowner have a written contract with a payment schedule somewhere in your toolbox lol. After the homeowner agrees to the price i have them sign the contract and collect deposit. 

All in one renovations llc
Www.allinonerenovationsllc.com


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## Maxon100 (Feb 11, 2015)

Ya there are some people that just can't help but try to get a "deal" on everything they ever purchase. Whenever dealing with a customer like this NEVER add any more costs after the original bid and make the bid very clear on the scope of work so you don't end up doing a whole bunch of stuff you didn't agree to.


http://stormproofroofing.org/


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

DannyP said:


> Job was scheduled for today at 8am. He calls me at 7am,


You cannot win with these people and you probably cannot break even. 

I'd say they are playing you, but some of it is cross-cultural miscommunication.

Leave.


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## HSULLC (Jan 20, 2015)

*I am getting a different tactic...*

Hey Everyone,

I was wondering if anyone else is getting this from people from Indian...

I get a phone call for requesting a "free" estimate. They always ask if its free first. Then they immediately say that I was referred to them by a friend or coworker. Then they always ask for a Saturday estimate. The thing is that they can never recall who their friend was or the name of the coworker. This happens all the time with Indians. Seems like they are using this tactic to just get good contractors to show up. Has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks!


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

How would this only get good contractors? Shaky referral? Saturday only? Free? Sounds like they want a trunk slammer.


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## HSULLC (Jan 20, 2015)

Hello Heavy_D,

Let me clarify...

In their eyes, it seems the only way to get a contractor in their home, lets say good or bad contractor, is to say it was through a referral. Most contractors jump at referral work. It seems they know that most contractors won't even return a phone call to them unless its through a referral.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

HSULLC said:


> Hello Heavy_D,
> 
> Let me clarify...
> 
> In their eyes, it seems the only way to get a contractor in their home, lets say good or bad contractor, is to say it was through a referral. Most contractors jump at referral work. It seems they know that most contractors won't even return a phone call to them unless its through a referral.


Who jumps at work when they don't know the source? Heck I don't jump for anyone.


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

I am sitting here and have a bid to do for a indian couple, I have never gotten one job from any one from india, This haggle thing i find insulting, i just ask them how the haggling thing works out for them at the gas station or micky d's. Shoot now i know why i never get the job, they don't eat beef.


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## HSULLC (Jan 20, 2015)

Heavy_D...

That's kinda what I am saying...they can't tell me who they referred me...basically they are making it all up. 

If a good customer of mine referred another person...I would jump on that lead.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

I didn't read all the posts. And I know this is an older thread. But I want to weigh in.

I'm a 26 year old contractor. I started my business 8 months ago. When I do a bid, thats the price. End of story. I don't over charge and I try not to under charge (but since I'm new I omit steps or materials from time to time)

Why give a higher price hoping to get haggled? Give a price. Stand your ground. Get the job.


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> I didn't read all the posts. And I know this is an older thread. But I want to weigh in.
> 
> I'm a 26 year old contractor. I started my business 8 months ago. When I do a bid, thats the price. End of story. I don't over charge and I try not to under charge (but since I'm new I omit steps or materials from time to time)
> 
> Why give a higher price hoping to get haggled? Give a price. Stand your ground. Get the job.


Nobody hopes to get haggle. They do it for a cushion because they know they will get haggled.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

Your missing the point though. 

People will try to get a cheaper price. If you drop they may try and do it multiple times because they see it as a weakness.

You may also not give the job if you give a discount or drop in price because now they feel you were over charging to begin with, and may be upset as a result.

I'm saying get a price for the job. Stand your ground. You will be respected more for it.

Also if you keep getting referrals you will most likely deal with that problem again and again if people keep telling their friends you came down on price.

Everyone can be a contractor. But not everyone is a business person.


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## KAIN (Feb 1, 2016)

I am younger so I probably deal with this more than some of you guys on here but I check on one or two jobs a week where the home owner tries to play car salesman with me. I politely tell them that I do not haggle on my prices and that if they would like to get it done then I would be more than happy to get started as soon as possible. Make sure to leave a packet with them that has all of your info and references on it because they usually call back few days later.


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> Your missing the point though.
> 
> People will try to get a cheaper price. If you drop they may try and do it multiple times because they see it as a weakness.
> 
> ...


Im actually not. Just because I don't feel like typing a novel to you, doesn't mean I'm missing the point. 

And the biggest discount I have ever given was 20 dollars.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

sunkist said:


> I am sitting here and have a bid to do for a indian couple, I have never gotten one job from any one from india, This haggle thing i find insulting, i just ask them how the haggling thing works out for them at the gas station or micky d's. Shoot now i know why i never get the job, they don't eat beef.


You: The price is $1000
Indian: I'll pay $900, what you say?

You: The price is $1100
Indian: You can't negotiate up, $900, what you say?

You: The price is $1150


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## Mult-Family (Nov 28, 2015)

I will never forget my first India customer. I was firm in my price and they lowballed me like big time, so much so I was like I am out of here. I could not get to my truck fast enough and by the time I was on the driveway they were calling me back to sign the contract. It was so funny because I had 100% written off that job as "not getting".

They paid what I asked and everything was good.

If he would have just asked for 500.00 off I would have started to negotiate but it was so low he ran me off, sounds like "he make mistake".


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

"If" you want to play the game, mark up 20% and knock off 10%, they are happy and you are happier :thumbsup:


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

dave_dj1 said:


> "If" you want to play the game, mark up 20% and knock off 10%, they are happy and you are happier :thumbsup:


All that is, is an invitation for them to test how much you raised it to lower it... if you don't think they know people in all industries do this, you're kidding yourself... it's an old sales gimmick that people instinctively expect... 

IMHO, the better way to deal with it is to remove it as an objection upfront and set yourself apart from negative expectations... 

We tell our customers in the beginning of the conversation that we're not there to "sell" them with "fake" or "manager discounts" so they don't have to worry about that as an issue... the price we give you is the actual price and it either makes sense or it doesn't because we don't raise our prices to lower them again... and if they try anyway, you reiterate what you said and look at the project where they give up something to save money (ply drawers instead of solid-wood as an example)... once they start to see they have to give something up to lower the price, they will get it... otherwise, they have no idea how much you raised it to lower it and will keep pressing (can you blame them?)...


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

dave_dj1 said:


> "If" you want to play the game, mark up 20% and knock off 10%, they are happy and you are happier :thumbsup:


I _don't_ play that game, and I'm _still_ happier. :thumbsup:


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