# Forgive me, for I have sinned



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

How is the run time Randy? 

I may sell them when I am done, or keep them at home for spares.


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## parkside (Jan 16, 2011)

I was very disappointed in the brushless kit, the drill in my opinion was very weak as was the impact driver. Took them back and paid a little more for the more powerful brushed lxt kit. Bonus was the kit I ended up with had a rebate for another battery.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't understand how the brush less would have less power then the same 18v drill with a brushed motor. My C-12 is brush less and it is way more drill then any other 18v nicad brushed drill I have used.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

parkside said:


> I was very disappointed in the brushless kit, the drill in my opinion was very weak as was the impact driver. Took them back and paid a little more for the more powerful brushed lxt kit. Bonus was the kit I ended up with had a rebate for another battery.


How did you pay more for a cheaper set?
My last one came with a free trim saw :thumbup:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm happy with mine, I had some ½X6" lags to go through a predrilled 4X4 post into a double deck rimmer, the rimmer not drilled and it pushed them right in. I really need to get a bigger impact driver.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

jlsconstruction said:


> How did you pay more for a cheaper set?
> My last one came with a free trim saw :thumbup:


Yeah, the full size 18v regular drill and impact combo was 280 bucks, about 45 bucks cheaper then the brushless. :blink:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Yeah, the full size 18v regular drill and impact combo was 280 bucks, about 45 bucks cheaper then the brushless. :blink:


That's what I thought


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

You guys don't own "air tools" ?

15 gallon compressor and an air ratchet will run the "caliber" of fasteners you're talking about.

Cordless tools have their limit.

Just my opinion...

" a bit too high off the ground for it too fall."
-DW

...nevermind.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Yeah, the full size 18v regular drill and impact combo was 280 bucks, about 45 bucks cheaper then the brushless. :blink:


That sounds about right. The regular kit could be the LXT211 kit or the better LXT218 kit that is a bit better.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

tenon0774 said:


> You guys don't own "air tools" ? ...


Nailers :laughing: and I have a mac tool air blower thing :thumup:


tenon0774 said:


> 15 gallon compressor and an air ratchet will run the "caliber" of fasteners you're talking about.


I would have to buy a bigger compressor, and battery powered tools do have limits, that's not an opinion its truth


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tenon0774 said:


> You guys don't own "air tools" ?
> 
> 15 gallon compressor and an air ratchet will run the "caliber" of fasteners you're talking about.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I could take my 80 gallon 2 stage compressor, hoses and air tools, but I don't need something else to trip over climbing around on top of an old bank barn.


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Yeah, I could take my 80 gallon 2 stage compressor, hoses and air tools, but I don't need something else to trip over climbing around on top of an old bank barn.


'Tis why i said, never mind.

...besides, dragging an 80 gallon compressor to a job is a bit ridiculous.

Don't you think?

:whistling


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Once he starts using that green Japanese stuff....:thumbup:

He'll be a religious convert.....:whistling

Especially when he looks at the sales receipts...:laughing::laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tenon0774 said:


> 'Tis why i said, never mind.
> 
> ...besides, dragging an 80 gallon compressor to a job is a bit ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Not when you have a fork lift to load it on your trailer. :whistling

Less is more when on top of a big ass old barn. 

Tried to find a jet pack this week too. :laughing:


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## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

:notworthy


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Not when you have a fork lift to load it on your trailer. :whistling
> 
> Less is more when on top of a big ass old barn.
> 
> *Tried to find a jet pack this week too.* :laughing:


http://martinjetpack.com/


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

griz said:


> Once he starts using that green Japanese stuff....:thumbup:
> 
> He'll be a religious convert.....:whistling
> 
> Especially when he looks at the sales receipts...:laughing::laughing:


Except it is Chinese. :whistling

I am holding out for the Protool impact driver. Should only have to wait another 8 months.


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## rotarex (Mar 31, 2008)

*hopefully you bought*

model # LXDT06 - for impact 
model # BHP454F for drill 

dewalt corded 3/4" impact is what i use for putting in lags, dont waste time with cordless unless its a 3/4" and even then the corded is way better


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

griz said:


> http://martinjetpack.com/


Why does the government and police get the cool stuff first?


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

griz said:


> http://martinjetpack.com/


$100,000.00 plus s/h, tax, and duties (what ever that is) 

Anyone wanna go half?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

rotarex said:


> model # LXDT06 - for impact
> model # BHP454F for drill
> 
> dewalt corded 3/4" impact is what i use for putting in lags, dont waste time with cordless unless its a 3/4" and even then the corded is way better


That is great, but I don't want to drag 150' of extension cord around on top of a bank barn. You realize one side is 45' off the ground to the eave? Almost 65' at the peak.


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## parkside (Jan 16, 2011)

jlsconstruction said:


> How did you pay more for a cheaper set?
> My last one came with a free trim saw :thumbup:


It was all in the timing, home depot had the brushless on sale for 299.00 around christmas time. When the drill couldn't even drill a 1/2 inch hole through a pine beam without shutting down I returned it. At that time home depot did not have anything else in stock so I ended up at our local tool house. which is where I bought the lot 218 which at that time was 329.00.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

parkside said:


> It was all in the timing, home depot had the brushless on sale for 299.00 around christmas time. When the drill couldn't even drill a 1/2 inch hole through a pine beam without shutting down I returned it. At that time home depot did not have anything else in stock so I ended up at our local tool house. which is where I bought the lot 218 which at that time was 329.00.


The LXT218 kit has the 454 drill driver that is much stronger than the drill driver in the 239 brushless kit and the 211 kit. Yes it's better for drilling fat holes but is a bit bulky and heavy for regular driving and drilling. I have the Brushless kit and the 454 for heaver stuff.


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## redwood (Dec 5, 2007)

I have this for the bigger stuff. It's a lot heavier then your run of the mill impact, but much stronger.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Yes it's on my list:thumbsup:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Mine too


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## Clarke Carpentry (Apr 22, 2011)

I have the older 3 speed brushless LXT impact. I've been very impressed with it so far but last week I had to drive some 6" Timberlocks and to be honest it struggled badly. Drove 6 of them and it fully drained a 3ah battery. Maybe I was taxing it beyond what it's designed for but I expected it to handle them no problem.

What pisses me off most about it though is that I bought it when it first came out for about $320 with 2 batts and the charger. I think they sold them off before they replaced it for less than $200. ****ing scandal.

As for the Festool drills and drivers, the biggest appeal to me is that they come in Systainers which has suddenly become very important now I've swapped my van for a truck. I do wish that the TI-15 was an impact and drill kit rather than a combined tool though. I have 5 guns on hand in the shop and usually take at least 3 on site with me because I can't stand having to change bits every 5 seconds.

Good luck slumming it with the Maks, D.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Can someone please explain the "value" of buying a $400 drill and then another $300 drill so it can be used ? You could just use a lanyard like the cell tower guys use with their tools.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

This months JLC has a brushless impact driver review in it. The Milwaukee and Panasonic offerings came out on top. The Makitas performed a lot more poorly than I would have thought.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> That is great, but I don't want to drag 150' of extension cord around on top of a bank barn. You realize one side is 45' off the ground to the eave? Almost 65' at the peak.


Doesn't your lift have power you can just plug in a corded?

Cole

Edit I expected more out of the makita kits I bought 3 at once to replace some worn out dewalts the 5 year old dewalts out perform the new makits.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Cole82 said:


> Doesn't your lift have power you can just plug in a corded?
> 
> Cole
> 
> Edit I expected more out of the makita kits I bought 3 at once to replace some worn out dewalts the 5 year old dewalts out perform the new makits.


I know everyone hates on the DeWalts but I've had the best success with them. My first cordless drill was a Makita that took the stick type battery in the handle and lasted for 10 screws, my second was DeWalt 18V that I got about 10-12 years ago. I replaced the batteries but used it for about 6-7 years until the whole thing was completely worn out.

At that point I bought another two 18V drill kits with the same Ni-Cad batteries...but they had 3 speeds and hammer. One got stolen when an employee borrowed it.  The other one I still have and use regularly.

When the one kit got stolen I bought the Hilti 14V kit which has been ok, but can't take the abuse as I've had both tools replaced a couple times and is now ready for the trash.

Shortly after I got the dewalt sets I won a Ridgid, and it's been a real work horse although the trigger broke and has lots of body flex. Still for free it's been a decent drill...but a step below the DeWalt. 

I needed another drill in a pinch so I picked up a Makita Compact 18V LXT with the 1.5ah batteries. It's light but doesn't have enough strength or run time.

So all in all for the price I'm really happy with DeWalt and they may be my next purchase. I won't make the mistake of buying the $600 Hilti set again...I'd rather buy 3 Dewalts.


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

Lol I had that 14v hilti too. We also have a bosch combo set that is pure crap. It is ridiculously slow no body ever uses it. I bought the makita because people here on ct rave about it it just doesn't have the power. It does have a nice comfortable grip and a nice led that stays on.

Cole


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

rrk said:


> Can someone please explain the "value" of buying a $400 drill and then another $300 drill so it can be used ? You could just use a lanyard like the cell tower guys use with their tools.


I wanted an impact driver for this old timber. My c-12 would do the job, but it will twist your arm off driving lots of these screws in old timber. 

If the makita breaks, I can go back and exchange it, if I break my c-12 there is no place to get another close to me. This project has to be done this weekend. I squeezed it in for some good clients of mine, they are paying well for it, or they would have had to wait until october. 

I bought a 2 pairs of 100 dollar sunglasses too, you want to chastise me for that too?


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I bought a 2 pairs of 100 dollar sunglasses too, you want to chastise me for that too?


Yes I will you cheap a$$ my sunglasses were $300

Cole






















They are prescription though :whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Cole82 said:


> Lol I had that 14v hilti too. We also have a bosch combo set that is pure crap. It is ridiculously slow no body ever uses it. I bought the makita because people here on ct rave about it it just doesn't have the power. It does have a nice comfortable grip and a nice led that stays on.
> 
> Cole


Although I really wanted to love the Hilti as it matches many of my other tools I nearly **** a brick when the rep told me I can't order replacement parts other than a trigger, I have to pay $150 to replace the whole Chinese drill. Plus I've stripped the gears in it twice, I've abused the Dewalt and the Rigid and never managed to strip their gears.

I just figured my Makita was low on power because I bought the little compact version. The only reason I rarely use it is because with the 1.5ah batteries you never stop walking back to the charger.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

A cheaper impact is worth it if you have a lot of lags to drive in. The Festool impact I haven't heard of anyone who really appreciates it. It doesn't make sense to pay $200 more for a heavier more awkward drill when you're only going to use the impact mode about 5% of the time. I probably would have bought the 18v Hilti with the 18v flashlight. If the lags you're driving have 7/16" or smaller heads I'd get the 18v Hilti impact driver, if they are 1/2" or bigger I'd get the Hilti 18v high torque impact wrench. I think their drills have improved and if a Hilti tool breaks within two years you bring it in to a Hilti center and they have it delivered to your front door fixed.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Although I really wanted to love the Hilti as it matches many of my other tools I nearly **** a brick when the rep told me I can't order replacement parts other than a trigger, I have to pay $150 to replace the whole Chinese drill. Plus I've stripped the gears in it twice, I've abused the Dewalt and the Rigid and never managed to strip their gears.
> 
> I just figured my Makita was low on power because I bought the little compact version. The only reason I rarely use it is because with the 1.5ah batteries you never stop walking back to the charger.


How long ago did you buy those Hiltis? They've changed the designs within the last couple years.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

KennMacMoragh said:


> How long ago did you buy those Hiltis? They've changed the designs within the last couple years.


Can't remember but I think it's 3-4 years now. It was right when they released the 14.4V lithium drill. I believe it is still a current model SID144-A.

Both were replaced under warranty, gears stripped in the drill, rotor broke on the impact. One battery replaced under warranty. I paid to have the drill replaced after it got stuck and the battery overload protection didn't kick in and it nuked the brushes/commutator. Now the other battery has died, the gears are stripped in the drill again, impact still works fine, so I've pretty much retired the kit.

I took it into the hilti store to look into upgrading and they will credit my $75, so I said I'd take the 18V kit. The guy rings it up, I throw the cash on the table and he's packing it up for me. Then I said "where's the drill" and he said "ohh I thought you only wanted the impact" ...then the new price turned into +$170 or something like that so I said piss on it I'l take my money back.

I still get fasteners, firestop, bits, and various other tools from Hilti but I'm done with the overprice cordless crap.

It seems to me that manufacturers will start off with a few heart and soul products and always make them very well...then once they establish their name and goodwill they start to badge junk and sell it at high prices to maximize revenues...and I think Hilti is doing just that.

Unless I'm crazy and just happened to get all fantastic DeWalt tools and the junk Hilti ones...but at less than half the price I'l take the gamble.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

No hilti within 100 miles either.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> I still get fasteners, firestop, bits, and various other tools from Hilti but I'm done with the overprice cordless crap.
> 
> It seems to me that manufacturers will start off with a few heart and soul products and always make them very well...then once they establish their name and goodwill they start to badge junk and sell it at high prices to maximize revenues...and I think Hilti is doing just that.
> 
> Unless I'm crazy and just happened to get all fantastic DeWalt tools and the junk Hilti ones...but at less than half the price I'l take the gamble.


That's how I feel about Stihl, a 30 year old Stihl chainsaw will work better than a 5 year old one. I don't know about the Hilti cordless, I bought my Cordless 36V sawzall 3 to 4 years ago and it's worked perfect. Only time it broke is when I left it out in the rain and through it in the mud constantly, that's when they fixed it for free and brought it to my front door.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

yeah that upset me about the Makita to, no
bit holders


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Except it is Chinese. :whistling
> 
> I am holding out for the Protool impact driver. Should only have to wait another 8 months.


Are they going to start selling Protool here in the states soon?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

J.C. said:


> Are they going to start selling Protool here in the states soon?


yes and no from what i hear. Protool brand of tools are meant to be branded Festool from 2014 which means we should start to see some of the "protool" range here at some point. I'm not a fan of the protool colors so I'm happy they are in koolaid green.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

J.C. said:


> Are they going to start selling Protool here in the states soon?


Yes, they are going to drop some of the line, like the circular saws and such, but we will see a good portion of their tools here in the next 8 months. They will be branded as Festool though.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

They cost about a buck tree eighty:jester:
Here's the linky, I bought about 6:blink: But yes I agree they should come with them on the tool!
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/bit-holder-p-114003.html


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

EricBrancard said:


> If that was the case, the companies with the biggest advertising budgets would always win. Yet, that never seems to be the case. Being skeptical is one thing. Being a cynic is another.


I know you are reasonably intelligent as I've read many of your posts. And I'm about as supportive as anyone can be when it comes to good & proper capitalism.

But really, with all your supposed inside contacts in numerous areas, you're going to still hold the line that there's no greasing of the palms going on when it comes to these mags? 

You must be more niave than I thought then. It's human nature. And when society is as far run amuck as ours is right now, it's reasonable to expect it.

I'm not skeptical OR cynical. I'm a realist in this case! 

I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you. One of us is right, the other wrong. :thumbup:

And just continue reading my tag line now............


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

So it's not just me?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

svronthmve said:


> I know you are reasonably intelligent as I've read many of your posts. And I'm about as supportive as anyone can be when it comes to good & proper capitalism.
> 
> But really, with all your supposed inside contacts in numerous areas, you're going to still hold the line that there's no greasing of the palms going on when it comes to these mags?
> 
> ...


I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. It's such a low level, low ROI kind of thing, I just don't see tool manufacturers "buying" reviews or contributors risking reputation over a tool review. Many of these guys who contribute to these magazines also contribute here. Not everyone is on the take. Integrity still matters to a lot of us.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

On a related note to these kinds of tool reviews in magazines. It seems that when they test a Festool with the rest, they usually dismiss it on the premises of it's high price tag. 

I have seen that numerous times.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> On a related note to these kinds of tool reviews in magazines. It seems that when they test a Festool with the rest, they usually dismiss it on the premises of it's high price tag.
> 
> I have seen that numerous times.


Often the price of the festool is 3 to 4 times the cost of the rest in "class." I have seen them note the Festool but not review it. In a lot of cases it would be like throwing a Bently in a compact car shootout.

For the average tool buyer and the average contractor, price will be a huge factor in purcahsing criteria. I finally bit the bullet and started buying green because I saw the value in the system outweighed the price of entry.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> On a related note to these kinds of tool reviews in magazines. It seems that when they test a Festool with the rest, they usually dismiss it on the premises of it's high price tag.
> 
> I have seen that numerous times.


Yep every review i have seen always rates them as ok if you don't mind the high price tag. I doubt they done more than take it out the box and run it in forward and reverse then put it back in the box. 

They never seem to mention why they are high priced though. Not that i give a crap what they say but its just weird they don't go into detail and explain the reason for the high price tag.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> When your looking at just power alone makita prob won't be tops but when you look at ergonomics, weight, charge time, tool range, warranty, quality etc etc they always come out on top. These tools are so close in power that power alone is a silly thing to make a choice on. Your gonna need a test machine to tell the difference between 50inlbs of difference between 2 models. One thing makita def need to do is update the battery tech. They have been using li-ion 3ah now for as long as panny have and 3ah is getting dated fast. They need a 4+ AH soon or they will be far behind the pack. Last I heard they did have one in the works but that was over a year ago now.


I have some Makita corded tools (compound miter, router) but quit on their cordless - the batteries just didn't hold up, either per charge or long-term. Switched to Milwaukee and haven't looked back.

Edit: And I'm swapping out to Festool as my corded tools die. The Makita compound miter looks like it's going to run forever, though.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The impact driver has a good run time, feels good in my hand, lack of bit holders is enough to make me want to throw it away.


What, you don't have pockets?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

CarpenterSFO said:


> I have some Makita corded tools (compound miter, router) but quit on their cordless - the batteries just didn't hold up, either per charge or long-term. Switched to Milwaukee and haven't looked back.
> 
> Edit: And I'm swapping out to Festool as my corded tools die. The Makita compound miter looks like it's going to run forever, though.


Had my oldest Makita pack die today. Had it for 7 years and silly amounts of charges in that time too. It done 2 years of crazy hard use in the UK before i come here too. I'm well impressed with how long their packs last. They do have a design flaw though that if you don't keep them charged they can fail prematurely.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> On a related note to these kinds of tool reviews in magazines. It seems that when they test a Festool with the rest, they usually dismiss it on the premises of it's high price tag.
> 
> I have seen that numerous times.


Their not the only ones that dismiss them on the premise of their price tag


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## Buildtech (Dec 18, 2012)

I own several drills and impacts, Festool, DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee and Bosch. Some are great for certain things, others are good for new apprentices to cut their teeth on. If I were driving the amount and size of fasteners mentioned in the opening post the first thing I would put in my tool bag would be a stick of wax or bar of soap. Lubing the screws will save both you and the tool. 

That being said we typically work around air hoses all the time. Air Tools tend to drop less and have more consistent power. If air wasn't an option I'd go with the strongest and longest lasting in my arsenal.


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## redwood (Dec 5, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The impact driver has a good run time, feels good in my hand, lack of bit holders is enough to make me want to throw it away.


Yeah that lack of a bit holder sucks. Makita does indeed have one that screws on to the impact, but it's a option that you have to buy. So stupid.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Probably a patent issue


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

redwood said:


> Yeah that lack of a bit holder sucks. Makita does indeed have one that screws on to the impact, but it's a option that you have to buy. So stupid.


See post below and do 3 or4 or 5 clicks and you can have as many as you like, you'll be happy you did:thumbsup: ereplacementparts.com dose some fast delivery too sometimes it's 3 days to get out here:thumbup:



Dirtywhiteboy said:


> They cost about a buck tree eighty:jester:
> Here's the linky, I bought about 6:blink: But yes I agree they should come with them on the tool!
> http://www.ereplacementparts.com/bit-holder-p-114003.html


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