# Tile floor heat



## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

During a bath remodel I put in an under-floor electric heat system for a customer around January and now it's not working.
I contacted the manufacturer and ran some tests on the line and it seems there is a break somewhere. 
Not a good thing.
This is the fifth one I have done but the first one that I have had a problem with.
I received the manufacturers test box which energizes the heating cable enough to allow me to place a thermal test paper on top of the tile and gradually move it along until i find the break.
My hope is that it is broken in one place and with their repair kit I can remove one or two tiles and fix this. 
If not, I am looking at having to take up the entire bath floor and replace it...there goes any vacation this year. 
This may be the last one I ever do because of this. There are just too many variables that can go wrong, making me liable. The manufacturer has been great with their tech support but that doesn't help so much after the fact. They ,of course, have limited liability in these situations. 
rj


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

What brand ?, who laid the Mat, you or your tile guy. GMOD

Keep us posted


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

I thought with those things any problems would come up during install with the testing probe installed.

Seems unusual for it to have taken 9 months.

Maybe you hit the wire somewhere during install, not enough to set the tester off, and the thinset corroded it over 9 months?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I've done a few, and was absolutely anal about taking and recording all resistance readings. So far, no failures... but yeah, it's a Damoclean sword.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have stopped doing them ever since i left the UK. We fitted a lot of them and had many problems. Thats was one reason we went with hydronic under floor heating rather than electric. The ones we fixed had to be paid for out of our pocket and took the profit away from the previous 10 we installed. every time there was a fault it would require taking up the whole floor tile. we were never able to spot repair it. good luck with that. The manufacturer's were helpful back then also but they knew that the worst it would cost them is a replacement mat.


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## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

Well the testing was a joke. We couldn't find anything that might possibly be a break in the line. It looks like I will have to turn it over to my insurance company or redo it myself. I won't offer this option to anyone again. There is too much at risk and the reward just isn't worth it.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

might I suggest you post here http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php? i seem to remember there is a way to locate the area where the break is, not exact but gets you close... cant remember the thread..


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## covaltleveling (Aug 13, 2010)

*Radiant heat floor systems*

When installing radiant heating systems it can be a good idea to encapsulate them in a layer of self leveling underlayment or concrete floor leveler, prior to thinset/tile installation.

Floor leveling compound may be installed over wooden sub floors after the heating unit is in place. Now that you have a "cement sub floor" the tile can be set with no damage to the heating system.

Good luck, Covalt Leveling ..........


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## Imperial Tile (Jun 8, 2010)

I had one do the same exact thing and was able to find the break. It ended up being a entire bad section in the wire, and the manufacturer actually warrantied it. Ive repaired 2 other hack done wire jobs also. Shoot me a PM if you want and maybe we can get on the phone and I can help you sort this out. Id hate to see you have to replace everything. :thumbsup: If your blowing the GFI on the thermostat you have a break somewhere. If its just not working period I think your problem may be elsewhere. Best way to test for the break is unhooking everything and retesting with your ohm meter.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> I am looking at having to take up the entire bath floor and replace it...


HOLD ON!

There are any number of reasons an installer would want to save-face and stand behind the replacement but come on.

The heat mats are to be tested when they are received.
The heat mats are to be tested immediately after they are installed and prior to cover-up.
The heat mats are to be tested once again after the cover up.

If all of that was done and the system worked for nine months thereafter, then: IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!! No reason to feel that you are responsible.

Did you sell the system?
How was it wired? 
Were you the electrician?
Has anyone tampered with or joined onto the circuitry somewhere else?
Was a dedicated circuit provided initially?
How many times has the floor been flooded near the point of lead egress?
Is the system blowing circuit breakers?
Is the system tripping GFCI's?
Did you provide a written warranty at the beginning?

There is no way the installer is responsible for a system that worked fine for a number of months and then suddenly crapped out for no reason.


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## JohnFRWhipple (Oct 20, 2009)

*Sourcing the problem*

We have had our share of trouble with these heated floors over the years.

The first was a cable install and there was a break caused by a cabinet installer and my client had some experts come up from the states that some how arched, or patched the line - something to this effect and fix the problem (we came in after the repairs where done).

Another job failed because the thermostat was faulty - this happened 10 months down the road.

And yet another keep tripping and we sourced that back to a loose thermostat wire.

Like Bud said if the line is checked before, durning and after install - it is set in concrete and should not fail.

Check your thermostat. It might just be that...

Good Luck


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## rotarex (Mar 31, 2008)

you guys know if there is a small Pex setup for heated floor (bathroom size) i never trusted the wire as wire can burn


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> you guys know if there is a small Pex setup for heated floor


Of course there is! What's your preference in manifolds? Plastic, brass, copper. How many ports? You name it Pex has it.

http://www.pexsupply.com


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

rotarex said:


> you guys know if there is a small Pex setup for heated floor (bathroom size) i never trusted the wire as wire can burn


If you are over a framed floor, the Wirsbo Quik Trak panels are a great way to embed PEX.


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## Keeyter (Sep 18, 2010)

Bud Cline said:


> HOLD ON!
> 
> 
> If all of that was done and the system worked for nine months thereafter, then: IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!! No reason to feel that you are responsible.


I always test before during and after with resistance, the loud mouth sensor during install, and SLC over install. I've seen guys nic them with trowels before. But I agree, it should be a manufactures warranty issue if it was installed per their specs. The cheapest warranty work I have ever done was read the instructions for everything, document, and photograph. Then you don't get warranty work - out of your coffers. Some of those instructions say touch your toes, and if you call the manufacturer for warranty and they ask did you touch your toes while installing it. You could be screwed or have loose back muscles.



JohnFRWhipple said:


> The first was a cable install and there was a break caused by a cabinet installer and my client had some experts come up from the states that some how arched, or patched the line - something to this effect and fix the problem (we came in after the repairs where done).


I have seen this as well, they went in from under the sub floor and crossed the lines back at the break.


Another good investment is at least two thermostat wires


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