# Death by Hardiplank



## suburbangen

I don't want to die, so I need some help in figuring out how to cut Hardiplank. I want to use a saw -- I use one on wood all day -- because I know the kind of work I can do with one, but I really don't want to spend extra money on special filters nor do I want to live the duration of the job in a HEPA mask. However, I'm apprehensive about using shears to cut it. (I just can't imagine getting clean edges with those.) So, if you have experience with the nasty stuff and can give me a tip, I'd appreciate it.


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## A+Carpenter

suburbangen said:


> I don't want to die, so I need some help in figuring out how to cut Hardiplank. I want to use a saw -- I use one on wood all day -- because I know the kind of work I can do with one, but I really don't want to spend extra money on special filters nor do I want to live the duration of the job in a HEPA mask. However, I'm apprehensive about using shears to cut it. (I just can't imagine getting clean edges with those.) So, if you have experience with the nasty stuff and can give me a tip, I'd appreciate it.



Cut it with a chop saw and wear mask or just go commando and live forever or as long as you can.


:w00t:


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## Joe Carola

suburbangen said:


> I don't want to die, so I need some help in figuring out how to cut Hardiplank. I want to use a saw -- I use one on wood all day -- because I know the kind of work I can do with one, but I really don't want to spend extra money on special filters nor do I want to live the duration of the job in a HEPA mask. However, I'm apprehensive about using shears to cut it. (I just can't imagine getting clean edges with those.) So, if you have experience with the nasty stuff and can give me a tip, I'd appreciate it.


Have you checked out their installation sight?

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/installation/hardiplank_installation.php


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## dayspring

I saw it myself. Spend a lot of time holding my breath when using it. Usually just put a bandana around my mouth and nose and jump in (cough, cough). Never used the shears. I will admit, when cutting it, I'm always thinking, "There must be a better way!"


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## vtgaetano

*hardi plank*

Well believe me you. I have been installing this stuff since it first came out and cut it without a mask or collection device for years, I could totally feel it in my lungs, silica in that stuff, it will kill you. I purchased a Makita 71/4 saw, made for cutting the stuff, and hitched it up to my shop vac, no dust! Takes a minute to get use to it but I will never cut the stuff any other way. Seriosly, that dust WILL kill you.


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## vtgaetano

It has the dust collection "gaurd" on the saw and about 15 feet of hose for vac, plenty to do all you need to do. The shears do leave a not so nice edge.


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## bmartin

Iv'e been using a SCMS and hooking up my shop vac to the dust collection port. It seems to work pretty good. I have the shears and they work but you don't get the clean edge like you do with the saw.


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## vtgaetano

yeah, what he said:thumbsup:


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## Gordo

vtgaetano said:


> It has the dust collection "gaurd" on the saw and about 15 feet of hose for vac, plenty to do all you need to do. The shears do leave a not so nice edge.


When you activate the saw does the vac automatically come on ? This is a special saw you say?


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## vtgaetano

Yes to both, special saw and the vac comes on only when the saw is running then the vac runs for maybe 5 sec. afterwards.:thumbup:One more thing, this saw has a bigger motor than the regular 7 1/4" saw and I cut 4-5 boards at a time.


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## Kevin H

we use a 71/2" diamond blade in a circular saw..works like a champ..and will outlast a hundred framing blades- Kevin


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## vtgaetano

Kevin H said:


> we use a 71/2" diamond blade in a circular saw..works like a champ..and will outlast a hundred framing blades- Kevin


 Huh? The question was about dust. 71/4" not 7 1/2" btw. framing blades to cut hardiplank?


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## Kevin H

"I don't want to die, so I need some help in figuring out how to cut Hardiplank. I want to use a saw "


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## Grumpy

The shears are fine. I was apprehensive also, but now most of the custs my subs make are with shears and ya can't tell the difference. 

I always asked my subs why they didn't use special filtersw or wear masks when cutting the materials. They looked at me blank in the face until I told them the dust will kill them, that's when they bought the shears.

If you do use a saw, they make special diamon blade saws specifically for cutting fibercement.


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## suburbangen

It's after my bedtime. "SCMS" stands for ...?


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## Mike Finley

You guys ever heard or using a fan? Might sound strange but in the decking industry it is more common. The dust from Ipe is toxic so a lot of guys set up a fan next to their saw, the fan blows enough to keep the dust away from the guy cutting.


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## Mike Finley

suburbangen said:


> It's after my bedtime. "SCMS" stands for ...?


*Super Cool Midget Samurai *- they are pretty common on the west coast these guys can cut Hardi clean with a karate chop so there is less dust.

Or it could be a Sliding Compound Miter Saw, but I'm not positive.


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## 747

Wow i didn't know it came in colors with a 15 year warranty. If i would have known that i would have went with instead of vinyl. They have a big color selection. I thought it just came preprimed.


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## Glasshousebltr

Mike Finley said:


> *Super Cool Midget Samurai *- they are pretty common on the west coast these guys can cut Hardi clean with a karate chop so there is less dust.
> 
> Or it could be a Sliding Compound Miter Saw, but I'm not positive.


I think your on the way Mike, however ya might want to train a little longer before ya take on the champ.:laughing:

Bob


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## Mike Finley

Glasshousebltr said:


> I think your on the way Mike, however ya might want to train a little longer before ya take on the champ.:laughing:
> 
> Bob


LOL, I will never challenge you Bob, that would be too suicidal on my part!:w00t:


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## vtgaetano

*again I say....*

This is what you want to use. http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=product_det&tag=5057KBhttp://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=product_det&tag=5057KB I don't know if that worked but trust me, I am a hardi-plank "specialist". Tried it all, this works best. You don't want the shears, looks like chit.


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## Shawn

Mike Finley said:


> You guys ever heard or using a fan? Might sound strange but in the decking industry it is more common. The dust from Ipe is toxic so a lot of guys set up a fan next to their saw, the fan blows enough to keep the dust away from the guy cutting.


I always have a fan blowing the dust away from me. When doing alot of cuts I use a electric leaf blower, it keeps the dust away and the surface clean.


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## Sider' Brian

Score and snap method here, but we only do a few jobs a year with Hardiplank due to the Masonite fiasco nearly everyone prefer vinyl siding.


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## Framer33884

Hardie board drains and puck. Get the right stuff and dont tell your help what your doing the next day.(Hardie)


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## burr311

I bought the special !0" saw blade (made by james hardie, and cut the hardi plank outdoors with a vac attatched. I plugged both the saw and vac into a powerstrip and activated both with my foot. The dust from That stuff is severely bad for you as mentioned in the warning label on the product, so this method worked well.


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## Tom Struble

the shears are fine once you get used to them,make your cuts on the back of the panel


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## Kgmz

As I have said many times before, get the shears.

We have Porter Cable shears and also have a Makita 5057B dust collection saw with Hardi Blade. I think I have only used the saw twice on Hardi. Once I got used to the shears there almost isn't anything I can't do with them.

And like said before cut from the backside and replace the shear blades as needed to keep getting clean cuts.

We have been using the shears on Hardi now for about 7 years. If you are installing the new Hardi Artisan or Nichiha then you have to use the saw since this stuff is 1/2 inch thick.


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## knucklehead

Just make sure you are upwind .


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## loneframer

I use the shears for crosscutting, if you cut it face down the front stays pretty clean. The rough backside helps "tooth" the 1/8" caulk bead which is recommended at all butts. Use a diamond grit cement siding blade for long cuts:thumbsup: The sea breeze handles the dust:thumbup:


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## Tom Struble

when i have alot of the same size pcs to cut i use my vanmark saw table and i stack the panels.I use a hatachi hardi blade in the saw and i pull the saw thru instead of pushing it,most of the dust gets ejected out the front of the saw


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## stp57

I found this customer review @ Amazon:
*Most Helpful Customer Reviews*

"26 of 29 people found the following review helpful: 
4.0 out of 5 stars *Not perfect, but good*, May 8, 2002 
 By *A Customer*
 
 Be prepared to invest some time practicing with this saw. The first thing I'd recommend is remove the blade Makita gives you and buy a good diamond 4 or 6-tooth blade. Cutting speed increased and dust/chips were greatly reduced. Tried cutting with and without a vacuum hose attached. If you can set up a tight cutting area/station, the hose may work for you. When it came to ripping a plank, it took two people (one person babysat the hose). The saw is heavy and not user friendly with a hose attached. We eventually put the wind to the back of the cut-man and went without the hose. I'd say the saw picks up 60-70% of the dust w/o the hose; slightly better with the vac. Cuts are clean and quite effortless. Rated to cut up to 5 planks...we tried up to 3 with no problems. If you have to watch the cut line, say on a rip, expect chips and dust coming right up into your face...recommend a face shield vs regular safety glasses. A dust mask was used on calm wind days. This saw won't be your saving grace but it will nicely compliment Snapper or Kett shears."


I Can't find anywhere the feature that vtgaetano describes. Even Makita doesn't mention the vacuum switching on with the saw.
Steve


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## stp57

The shears won't cut 3/4" hardi-trim, so keep your saw handy.
Steve


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## Graham J

We do nearly all our houses in Hardi, and a couple of jobs ago, my boss found a neat little cutter manufactured by Bullet Tools. It is designed for cutting laminate flooring, but it works like you'd never believe on Hardi plank. It has a deck with a fence that is set at 90 degrees to the blade. 

The blade is opperated with a long handle, and shears the plank almost cleaner than a factory cut. You could easily butt two clean ends together and never know the difference. The other side of the cut is a little rougher, because the blade is tapered on one side. The non-tapered side of the blade is the finish side. You have to stone the blade every now and then, but it works VERY well. As a side benefit, there is no air-borne dust.

For plunge cuts, we use a Hitachi blade in a jig saw. For rips, a Bosch table saw with a Hardi blade is used, and for tapered cuts (like in a gable end), we use the Porter-Cable shears on the rough side of the plank. Seems to work reasonably well.

Hope that helps,
Graham


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## TempestV

stp57 said:


> I Can't find anywhere the feature that vtgaetano describes. Even Makita doesn't mention the vacuum switching on with the saw.
> Steve





burr311 said:


> I plugged both the saw and vac into a powerstrip and activated both with my foot.


this is what you need:
http://eagleamerica.com/product.asp?pn=489-8130&sid=FROOGLE&EID=FR489-8130&bhcd2=1238165980


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## kodiak_island

Hard to believe . But the power shears work if you dont want to die of cancer or any other good stuff.


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## Kgmz

Graham J said:


> We do nearly all our houses in Hardi, and a couple of jobs ago, my boss found a neat little cutter manufactured by Bullet Tools. It is designed for cutting laminate flooring, but it works like you'd never believe on Hardi plank. It has a deck with a fence that is set at 90 degrees to the blade.
> 
> The blade is opperated with a long handle, and shears the plank almost cleaner than a factory cut. You could easily butt two clean ends together and never know the difference. The other side of the cut is a little rougher, because the blade is tapered on one side. The non-tapered side of the blade is the finish side. You have to stone the blade every now and then, but it works VERY well. As a side benefit, there is no air-borne dust.
> 
> For plunge cuts, we use a Hitachi blade in a jig saw. For rips, a Bosch table saw with a Hardi blade is used, and for tapered cuts (like in a gable end), we use the Porter-Cable shears on the rough side of the plank. Seems to work reasonably well.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> Graham


 
If someone is doing a lot of Hardi or they are a sider that installs it every day, then a production shear is the way to go.

Pactool makes hand shears, production shears, and other tools for Hardi, etc.

http://www.pactool.us/

I love my SA902 siding gauges from them, makes it easy to hang it by yourself.


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## D.Foster

Mike Finley said:


> You guys ever heard or using a fan? Might sound strange but in the decking industry it is more common. The dust from Ipe is toxic so a lot of guys set up a fan next to their saw, the fan blows enough to keep the dust away from the guy cutting.


I have heard of a fan, but not decking in a bath remodel!!!


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## TempestV

D.Foster said:


> I have heard of a fan, but not decking in a bath remodel!!!


obviously, that's for those open "natural" bathrooms for the hippies that Mike gets along with so well...


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## BattleRidge

I dont think I have ever seen someone in our area doing anything but just cutting it with a chop saw and skil saw. Once in a while you see them notch with snips but I always hold my breathe or just do it up wind. I swear everything causes cancer these days.


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## jhark123

Hand shears are SLOOOOOW! On a cut-up house you have to be able to cut 4-5 boards at once. I use a diablo hardi blade on a worm drive saw and a dust mask.


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## Graham J

KGMZ, this is what I had in mind. I will try to post a link: http://www.bullettools.com/pro_tools.html

It is the one in the upper right hand corner of the large picture. It works really good for the amount of siding we do, and I know a pro sider that uses one (we got him started on it :w00t. You can do it pretty fast, if you have a number of the same size to cut.

Graham


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## stp57

Ebay has it for new $599 & free shipping. They claim it can cut 3/4" solid oak, but only 1/2" Hardi?
Steve


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## sst104siding

DeWalt also sells shears for cuttting flber cement siding, when you purchase Hardie plank by the skid the protective wrap shows the different options for cutting the siding....The shears only stay sharp for 2 skids the I usually purchase a new pair....you can also flip the blades around for a new sharp edge


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## bob_cntrctr

Score & snap.

P100 particulate filter (99.97% of particles 0.3microns and larger)

Exhaust fan on windows to put the room in negative pressure and remove aerosols (those 0.3 midcron dust particles remain air-borne long after you see the visible stuff settle to the floor).

Some dust information:

There are two kinds of dust. That which you can see, and a whole lot more you can't see. Your average human hair is about 40 microns in diameter. Dust particles smaller than 10microns aren't visible. Most bacteria are in the 1 to 10 micron range. Most particles smaller than 1 micron are so light they will float around in the air for ages before settling, if ever. It's the small particles that will get you because they can get waaaay down in the tiniest recesses of your lungs and lodge in little crannies, and because they're the hardest to control. When all the dust you can see and taste has settled, trillions more invisible, air-borne particles are still floating around, and you're breathing them in and out without even noticing. This is true everywhere - even just sitting in your living room. Every time you sit on your couch, or even just flex your clothes moving your arm, it sends a massive cloud of invisible particles into the air. Every time you flex your fingers, a cloud of skin particles. Every time you blink, a jet of invisible aerosol tear droplets. Our bodies are designed to deal with most natural particles and bacteria. But they're not designed to deal with other, man-made things. The less of the un-natural sort of thing you can breathe, the better.

P100 mask. Negative room pressure vented to outside. HEPA vacuum with the exhaust vented by hose out a window.


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## s.kelly

Not my trade, but I have done and am doing some around the house with hardie. Had some of the same concerns as I see here. Some good information here and I have a site to add 
magnumtools.com. any options in circular saw and chop saw blades as well as different shear options.
sorry no link,not really a computer guru!


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## Ranzan

I use cheap chopsaws that are disposable.... the silica sand destroys bearings and powertools I only use the Makita skilsaws they have always lasted the longest of everything I have used I also use dewalt portable tablesaws for window and top cuts... can`t remember the # off the top of my head.

As far as shears go.... way to slow for production. snap shears not bad but still slow 

All my guys Must use respirators, hearing protection and glasses no exceptions

always use Hardi blades. as long as you don`t cut wood they last a long time. and they are alot quieter than trying to use a carbide blade


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## galla35

rotozip with a diamond blade and a shopvac is what i use for the backer board


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## outlaw

We have started useing Smartside by LP.

It is sooooo much easier to cut, easier to hand up, doesn't break, and no silica.

I think it looks alot better on the wall too.

I HATE Hardi-plank. Not so much fiberedcement, just Hardi-plank.

They came around with their "sales reps". Went to every builder in town and told them that they can get Color-plus on the wall for less than $3 a sq foot. Then they bring in these illeagals to do the work. I asked the rep what I had to do to be a "preferred contractor", he said I had to furnish and install color-plus for under $3 sq foot.

Piss on Hardi:furious:


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## d.g.reynolds co

diamond blades on chop saws and skills saws plus a shop vac duct taped on the chop always work for me.


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## stp57

Smartside by LP sounds interesting, but what do they mean by "engineered wood"? What is the thickness of the trim? Does this stuff weigh as much as Hardiboard & does it swell when saturated?
I don't trust a company that doesn't address these concerns on their own website. What are they hiding?
Steve


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## silkwood

switch to LP wood siding, better warranty, better look, stays on better, more durable. no carcinegens(sp?) to give you cancer, problem solved, oya and it's cheaper by a little bit


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## stp57

Yea, but what do they mean by "engineered wood"? Is it particle board, MDF? What happens when it gets submersed?
Steve


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## stp57

This what Wikipedia has to say about "engineered wood":
*Characteristics*

Engineered wood products are used in a variety of ways, often in applications similar to solid wood products. Engineered wood products may be preferred over solid wood in some applications due to certain comparative advantages:


Because engineered wood is man-made, it can be designed to meet application-specific performance requirements.
Large panels of engineered wood may be manufactured from fibres from small diameter trees.
Small pieces of wood, and wood that has defects, can be used in many engineered wood products, especially particle and fiber-based boards.
Engineered wood products are often stronger and less prone to humidity-induced warping than equivalent solid woods, although most particle and fiber-based boards readily soak up water unless they are treated with sealant or paint.
 Engineered wood products also have some disadvantages:


They require more primary energy for their manufacture than solid lumber.
The required adhesives may be toxic. A concern with some resins is the release of formaldehyde in the finished product, often seen with urea-formaldehyde bonded products.
Cutting and otherwise working with engineered wood products can expose workers to toxic constituents.
 The types of adhesives used in engineered wood include:
Urea-formaldehyde resins (UF)most common, most cheap, and not waterproof.Phenol-formaldehyde resins (PF)yellow/brown, and commonly used for exterior exposure products.Melamine-formaldehyde resin (MF)white, heat and water resistant, and often used in exposed surfaces in more costly designs.Methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) or polyurethane (PU) resinsexpensive, generally waterproof, and do not contain formaldehyde. A more inclusive term is _structural composites_. For example, fiber cement siding is made of cement and wood fiber, while cement board is a low density cement panel, often with added resin, faced with fiberglass mesh. Plastic extrusion mixes of wood fiber and thermoplastic, such as polyproplyene, has given rise to decking and railing material resistant to weather and is steadily replacing rot resistant wood.


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## JustaFramer

TempestV said:


> this is what you need:
> http://eagleamerica.com/product.asp?pn=489-8130&sid=FROOGLE&EID=FR489-8130&bhcd2=1238165980



There are also vacuums made with that switch built in.


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## boman47k

I think I saw a 5 saw for cutting cementous board at HD today. 10,000 rpm's I think. Expensive little booger (to me). I think it was 199.00. Any comments on that type of saw for cutting cement board?


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## renoindallas

*LP SmartSide*

lpcorp dot com

SmartSide is treated with a simple salt called Zinc Borate. This non-toxic salt actually kills the termites and prevents fungal decay by disrupting the wood cycle.

It also has a paper paint base overlay that only requires one coat of paint.

It's non-pourous unlike brittle cement. It also has a 5/50 year transferable warranty on Trim/Soffit/Fascia, as well as lap

It's available in a treated strand osb as well as a borate treated hardwood maple dense hardboard that will outlast 50 years.

Many big builders use it around here. Now Waferwood in the 80's, or the bad wood innerseal 15-20 years ago? That was engineered much different than Smartboard.

Again, just look at this thread, all the "blade" talk expenses, and the dust and the inconsistant warranty changes of cement.

It's a no-brainer and more and more builders are trying to get an edge with this stuff

It's around 15% cheaper, better warranty, looks better, fewer pieces (all come in 16' instead of 12') 
quicker installation, twice as strong.

Cement has done a great job with perception and marketing but does that really work on anyone who has "experience" working with brittle board?

Also, the Panels are "direct to stud" structural and 40 lbs., instead of cement panel of 80 lbs where you DO need a backing.

You also will repaint your cement in 10 years, it will fade and butt-joints are visible from a mile away....

Something to think about to avoid all this dust, installation, blade discussion....hope this helps someone


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## stp57

Thanks renoindallas for the great info,
I wonder if that is similar to the Armour Wood that I buy from Lowes? Armour wood claims to be treated for exterior http://www.armourwood.com/why_armour_wood/8, yet it is perfect for interior work. The boards are finger jointed, perfectly square edges, straight with no knots http://www.armourwood.com/armour_wood_performs/19. I use it for baseboard & Wainscot. It is double primed with no visible grain. It costs a hefty $12 for a 1x4x12', but it has been worth it for me. I hate MDF.
Steve


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## crduschik

*smartside*

Do not use smartside! They had a product out years ago called inner seal which has now caused them a class action lawsuit. We are currently removing LP, repairing extensive rot behind the product, and then installing HardiPlank. Excellent product howevever they recently changed the look a small bit which creates more waste.


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## Winchester

boman47k said:


> I think I saw a 5 saw for cutting cementous board at HD today. 10,000 rpm's I think. Expensive little booger (to me). I think it was 199.00. Any comments on that type of saw for cutting cement board?


the ridgid fibre cement saw?

i just paid $450 for a glorified circular saw yesterday. $199 is nothing

I've read a review about it that said it was good. There was a post around here somewhere that said it breaks down pretty quickly though. I'm not surprised since the only ridgid tool I've bought that has lasted me well is a Vac.


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## Tom Struble

Winchester said:


> the ridgid fibre cement saw?
> 
> i just paid $450 for a glorified circular saw yesterday. $199 is nothing
> 
> I've read a review about it that said it was good. There was a post around here somewhere that said it breaks down pretty quickly though. I'm not surprised since the only ridgid tool I've bought that has lasted me well is a Vac.


ive got a ryobi i could sell you....:whistling


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