# Have You Been Hiring More Women?



## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

> Well, as it turns out, 97 percent of the field is male. That’s right, only three percent of the workforce is female. This isn’t for a lack of women interested in the trades — in fact, they would love the increased income and opportunities to gain specialized skills. *Labor Shortages and Ladies in the (Construction) Zone*


Have you been hiring more women?

Why? Why not?

Could it be a solution to labor shortages?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

It's a supply driven issue not demand driven...or does the entire female population want to work in construction?


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Not so much hiring, but I've been seeing more women in the trades over the last couple of years.

Today, I was in a local big box and saw probably ly as many women as men dressed like me. Grubby, but happy. I assume they were contractors or similar.

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

The article kinda makes it sound like women are treated like dirt in construction and are subject to discrimination. What it doesn't outline is that's how construction is for everyone. It's not for those who can't handle a bit of hazing and joking around.

I've employed/subcontracted work to three women in the past and didn't experience the problem outlined in the article. One would attract some unwanted attention from other male workers on site who jumped at the opportunity to help her :laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I tried to hire a couple, but my wife was the one that did the discriminating. 

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

3 full time work for us, one seasonal. 2 office/admin and two painter/paint prep. 

I'm sexist... I don't let the older lady climb tall ladders and none of let either one carry anythinf real heavy. They seem cool with it lol


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## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

Jaws said:


> 3 full time work for us, one seasonal. 2 office/admin and two painter/paint prep.
> 
> I'm sexist... I don't let the older lady climb tall ladders and none of let either one carry anythinf real heavy. They seem cool with it lol


It's tough for a woman to carry anything heavy in the state of Texas. Heck, I lifted a large case of water in Walmart and 2 men ran to lift it into my cart. :laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Cricket said:


> It's tough for a woman to carry anything heavy in the state of Texas. Heck, I lifted a large case of water in Walmart and 2 men ran to lift it into my cart. :laughing:


Guess that means you aren't ugly.... at least by Walmart standards.

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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Aside from my mom who is our book keeper and my sister who does a few odd things here and there for us, we hired our first woman early last year.

She helped me carry a 72" vanity with a marble top attached to it up a set of stairs so I think she'll do ok.

She usually works with me and we do primarily cabinet and trim work in this season of the business.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

In my business the answer is NO. No applicants, no interest, not even a mild interest in learning and doing what we do. 

8 years ago, had a women, who was the partner of a firm we had a working relationship with, really really wanted to come on board and learn what we do and do it. 

I set up a organized training program, bought clothing in her size. Get everything ready to go. 

Set up our first job.....she calls in sick the night before. Ok, that can happen. Two weeks later.....another "not feeling too good" excuse. Then she had to go somewhere outside the country, then it was something else. 

After a month of excuses, I dropped it. I saw her for years after this, she never brought it up, nor did she offer any apology or just a simple: "I lost interest".


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> Aside from my mom who is our book keeper and my sister who does a few odd things here and there for us, we hired our first woman early last year.
> 
> She helped me carry a 72" vanity with a marble top attached to it up a set of stairs so I think she'll do ok.
> 
> She usually works with me and we do primarily cabinet and trim work in this season of the business.


Oh dude give it a few months and your wife will be foaming at the mouth thinking you're boinking her LOL.

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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Our main painting subcontractor is a woman and there have been a couple from misc other subs. Most of the office staff at local companies are female. I have not hired any for our company nor have any ever called or applied when we had postings. At a previous company the bosses sister worked for a bit one summer and that was not a good fit. Not because she was a woman but because she didn't like manual labor...


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## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

Inner10 said:


> Guess that means you aren't ugly.... at least by Walmart standards.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Or, they decided to help the little old lady. :thumbsup:


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## AllanE (Apr 25, 2010)

Some of my best subs are women-owned: plastering, painting, hardwood floors, glass contractor. 

One of my project managers is a woman, and she is excellent! On the job at 6:45am, hard-working, smart, thorough. One of my best hires in many years. Currently overseeing construction of a 4.5 million$ home. She needs my help on a few things but all-in-all does a very good job.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I don't hire based on gender, race, religion or any other factor other can and do they want to do the job.

Why does gender/sex matter?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Oh dude give it a few months and your wife will be foaming at the mouth thinking you're boinking her LOL.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


Pretty sure you're joking but I'm going to speak for Travis and his wife. 

He would never consider or do it, the thought would never cross her mind. 

I do know them both IRL. 

Tom


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I just wanted some eye candy at the shop. 

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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I don't hire based on gender, race, religion or any other factor other can and do they want to do the job.
> 
> Why does gender/sex matter?[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

tjbnwi said:


> Pretty sure you're joking but I'm going to speak for Travis and his wife.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




After spending a weekend with Travis I’ll agree 100% with this. 


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> Oh dude give it a few months and your wife will be foaming at the mouth thinking you're boinking her LOL.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


That's not my style, I think you know that.

My wife is not concerned.

Before hiring her I asked my wife it was ok. The nature of our work is working alone in unoccupied house's on a fairly regular basis. I wasn't going to put any strain on my marriage and the woman understood that.

She's my former pastor's daughter and been a friend for a while.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It's not derailing to crticise it. That's why you had to apologize.


You're wired too tightly. Chill out. She didn't "have to" do anything - just offered a kind gesture to clarify. You should have figured it out already.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> You're wired too tightly. Chill out. She didn't "have to" do anything - just offered a kind gesture to clarify. You should have figured it out already.


Not wound too tight at all. You are reading way too much into it. It's an agenda driven question. Even reworded it reads wrong. So we wouldn't hire women if there was no shortage. As if there is a line of women wanting to work but we won't let them, but now there is a labor gap we will fill it with them. Okay girls, you can come and play. Again, it's a dumb question. Did did you stop beating your wife? is a great example.


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## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Not wound too tight at all. You are reading way too much into it. It's an agenda driven question. Even reworded it reads wrong. So we wouldn't hire women if there was no shortage. As if there is a line of women wanting to work but we won't let them, but now there is a labor gap we will fill it with them. Okay girls, you can come and play. Again, it's a dumb question. Did did you stop beating your wife? is a great example.


Enough is enough. Knock it off.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> Ok, I'll be more clear. I thought the OP's article provided enough context to have some civil chit-chat without calling the question dumb and/or calling it a trap.


The article starts with a liberal slant saying it's not for a lack of interest. Again, women aren't oppressed. If they can do the same job they are more than welcome to be employed. But I won't run a business like the fire department and lower standards. Men and Women are different. Most women are not physically built for construction. It's just the way we were made.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Cricket said:


> Enough is enough. Knock it off.


I will never knock off defending a position of truth. Your article is liberally biased and the premise is liberally driven. It's a free country. If you guys don't like what I say you have the power to boot. Don't post controversial topics if you don't want it to get controversial.


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## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

Cricket said:


> This is really simple, if ya don't like the question, keep scrolling and ignore it, but please stop derailing the thread.





Cricket said:


> Enough is enough. Knock it off.


Let me know if this is not clear enough.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

"_...AND I'M NOT SHOUTING...!_"


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Someone who gets my point. It's a dumb question.


You're just trolling now Rob. Like I said some of us don't think it's a dumb question, I've been in construction my whole life and I have only worked around the women I have hired. I am as qualified a contractor to answer that question as you are, And it's not a dumb question, nor do I think that cricket was trying to be adgenda driven. In the years she's been on this board I haven't ever seen her post anything that was agenda driven

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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Cricket said:


> I apologize for my poorly worded question. My purpose was exploring if hiring more women would help with the labor shortage issue. What I am hearing from y'all though, is for the most part women aren't applying for work. Of course, that makes me wonder why...


Both men and women can do whatever job the other can do (with exceptions)... all it takes is the drive to want to... but some are more suited for different careers...

Other industries that are more women dominated, take child-care providers as example (although there are many examples), there isn't a lot of second guessing as to why more men aren't being tapped to fill the void in that growing labor market... 

The reason men are not is probably along the same lines as women in construction labor (as opposed to office work which is more common)... they're more suited for what they choose... if they were really interested, they'd be applying... no-ones stopping them...

CAN a women do labor in construction... sure... just like a man can do child care... there are diamonds in the rough in every industry that go outside the box, and we see female members on here as well, but it's also hard on the body, and not a lot of woman I know want to be potentially knarled up with arthritis, blown knees and shoulders, back issues, leathered up skin, dried cracked hands, etc. working the trades... may not sound appealing to a women and I totally respect that...

There are simply some careers women are better suited for as is the case with men... and they vote on that with their feet... it's their choice...

A willing capable person is more important to me than whether that person belongs to one group or another...


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Cricket said:


> I apologize for my poorly worded question. My purpose was exploring if hiring more women would help with the labor shortage issue. What I am hearing from y'all though, is for the most part women aren't applying for work. Of course, that makes me wonder why...


Cricket, being a female, and on a contractor site, you could probably provide US with some insight... why would a career in construction as opposed to what you do now, be appealing to you as a women or what would it take to make it appealing to you?...


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

If she can carry a 40’ ladder and has no issues hanging over the edge of the roof 3 stories up would have no problem with it. 

Saw a Mexican crew that had a female. Think she was just the driver and gutter maker. 


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Jaws said:


> You're just trolling now Rob. Like I said some of us don't think it's a dumb question, I've been in construction my whole life and I have only worked around the women I have hired. I am as qualified a contractor to answer that question as you are, And it's not a dumb question, nor do I think that cricket was trying to be adgenda driven. In the years she's been on this board I haven't ever seen her post anything that was agenda driven
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I am not going to disagree with you, and, I am not going to defend TNT, but, both of you have some valid points. Unfotunately the question is based on an agenda driven article. 

Here are some excerpts from that article: 

"only three percent of the workforce is female. This isn’t for a lack of women interested in the trades — in fact, they would love the increased income and opportunities to gain specialized skills."

"Women are pushed out and pushed against from the moment they walk in the door. Most of us grin and bear it, participate in the jokes, and play along, because it’s our only choice. There needs to be MAJOR changes, started from the ground."

"It’s us girls against the world out here. "

"Cure the Sickness in the Industry: Hire Women, Improve Safety"

"Women are just as capable as your men. They’re waiting in droves for chances to learn vital skills like those developed in the trades. But until they’re given a chance, a place to enter the industry safely, you’re going to continue to watch things get harder and harder for the men who remain."

Sorry to say, but there is bias galore here. And, the author of the article has an agenda and her entire article is based on: (1) an unsupported generalization that large numbers of women are waiting and trying to get into the trades"; (2) a small number of anonymous statements and quotes from women that support the author's argument.


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## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

KAP said:


> Cricket, being a female, and on a contractor site, you could probably provide US with some insight... why would a career in construction as opposed to what you do now, be appealing to you as a women or what would it take to make it appealing to you?...


I have worked with primary men my entire life. Heck, even the industry I am in now tends to have far more men than women. MANY years ago I drove 18 wheelers (flatbed) and did not have issues with being a woman, other than I felt the need to work harder than anyone else to prove myself "worthy".

I think *maybe* it goes back to childhood for most women, as far as what women (and men) see themselves doing. As a young girl, when the other neighborhood girls were playing with dolls and playing house, I was exploring in the woods, riding my horse, and playing kickball with the neighborhood boys. I was raised to follow my dreams, whatever they might be. I tried to raise my children (2 boys and 2 girls) the same way.

I don't know why more women aren't applying. It doesn't make sense to me. I would have been an amazing heavy equipment operator and would love to learn to build my own tiny cabin one day.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

NYgutterguy said:


> If she can carry a 40’ ladder and has no issues hanging over the edge of the roof 3 stories up would have no problem with it.
> 
> Saw a Mexican crew that had a female. Think she was just the driver and gutter maker.
> 
> ...


A little diversity..If they have a role to fill, and can be a trusted team player, I'm fine.

I once hired a female to deliver and set-up hospital beds and oxygen "H" tanks in homes..but only after she proved she could do it safely. 

Same for pip-squeak dude applicant another time..."show me you do this 5x/day"....he did, and got the job, too. 

I once hired a drywall crew, and they were a motley bunch. The guy charged with mixing had one arm....that didn't go so well. And their best english speaker was the worst taper, as I recall. But he could talk.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Cricket said:


> I don't know why more women aren't applying. It doesn't make sense to me. I would have been an amazing heavy equipment operator and would love to learn to build my own tiny cabin one day.


Well that kinda drills down a little on it and hits right at home ... sounds like your parents supported you going after your dreams, and you seem to have the aptitude for what you wanted to do, so the question becomes why didn't you become the amazing heavy equipment operator?

Seems you're more in a position to give us insight on this since you had more boxes checked to do it (i.e. - support for your dreams, experience working with men, aptitude, desire to want to do it, etc.) than the average women...

Based on the boxes you checked, you'd certainly be one of the ones we'd look more deeply at when applying...


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## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

KAP said:


> Well that kinda drills down a little on it and hits right at home ... sounds like your parents supported you going after your dreams, and you seem to have the aptitude for what you wanted to do, so the question becomes why didn't you become the amazing heavy equipment operator?
> 
> Seems you're more in a position to give us insight on this since you had more boxes checked to do it (i.e. - support for your dreams, experience working with men, aptitude, desire to want to do it, etc.) than the average women...
> 
> Based on the boxes you checked, you'd certainly be one of the ones we'd look more deeply at when applying...


I'm not sure this answers your question, but...

Life made a few decisions for me. I had been a director of personnel for a company for many years, and one day I was simply done with it all and went out on the open road, perhaps running away from life for a bit. The truth is, I loved pulling flatbeds (especially pulling wide loads) but I was a single mom. My youngest daughter rode with me until she was 5 and it was time to start school. I seriously considered homeschooling her on the truck, but she was very advanced, and I was worried I couldn't teach her enough (She was fully reading by 4 years old.) so I left the road. 

After that, it was really a matter of finding what I could do without leaving kids in daycare a gazillion hours a week. I landed on the internet and never quite looked back. Why? Cuz I love my work and believe it or not, I am pretty good at it.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I'll admit to some bias. I have 5 younger sisters and I had to "step in" on more than one occasion when some "friendship" started to take a turn. Men can be demeaning pigs as they figure out women and their boundaries, limits, etc. At the level of true professionals, maybe not so much, but down the ladder, definitely.

As for men and women joking on jobsites, I would say that men telling a sexual joke, for example, often has little something extra to gauge a woman's reaction. Building intel, if you will. It's naive to think it's innocent and the same as men joking with men. 

Just my opinion, and I'm sure others will disagree. 

(Of course, women aren't angels, either. No comment on that end.)


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## Admin (Dec 10, 2003)

MarkJames said:


> I'll admit to some bias. I have 5 younger sisters and I had to "step in" on more than one occasion when some "friendship" started to take a turn. Men can be demeaning pigs as they figure out women and their boundaries, limits, etc. At the level of true professionals, maybe not so much, but down the ladder, definitely.
> 
> As for men and women joking on jobsites, I would say that men telling a sexual joke, for example, often has little something extra to gauge a woman's reaction. Building intel, if you will. It's naive to think it's innocent and the same as men joking with men.
> 
> ...


I wonder if that could also be related to where folks live.

I have lived in the South the vast majority of my life. It has been my personal experience that here in Texas men are extremely protective of women. My boys are even more protective of me. It's common around here to hear a man apologize for cussing in front of a woman. (I let them know that my cuss jar tends to be overflowing!) 

It could all come down to how we were raised and what the local culture is like.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Cricket said:


> I'm not sure this answers your question, but...
> 
> Life made a few decisions for me. I had been a director of personnel for a company for many years, and one day I was simply done with it all and went out on the open road, perhaps running away from life for a bit. The truth is, I loved pulling flatbeds (especially pulling wide loads) but I was a single mom. My youngest daughter rode with me until she was 5 and it was time to start school. I seriously considered homeschooling her on the truck, but she was very advanced, and I was worried I couldn't teach her enough (She was fully reading by 4 years old.) so I left the road.
> 
> After that, it was really a matter of finding what I could do without leaving kids in daycare a gazillion hours a week. I landed on the internet and never quite looked back. Why? Cuz I love my work and believe it or not, I am pretty good at it.


I respect the challenges and rewards that come from single parenting... can't imagine what that would have been like all these years without my wife... 

But I think your story might also give some insight into this... hours, life circumstances, etc. - it may be the path of least resistance for some, suitability for others... it may not be their dream, but if it's like as you say (which I tend to agree with that it plays a role) that it could be from childhood, it may be what they know and are comfortable with...

Unless you're one of the few who were blessed with knowing what you wanted to do since you were a kid, most have a hard time deciding what to do with their life in the first place, never mind all the other social considerations of a career...

One thing is for sure, they tell us what decision they came to with their feet... and you've gotta' work with the hand you're dealt...


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Someone who gets my point. It's a dumb question.


No, I didn't get your point.

My own observation is that the swing in ratio towards more women/females in this biz hasn't moved much in the last decade for ME.

So if I answer "no", it might appear I am not making the effort. 

If I answer "yes", that would suggest I had not made the effort in the past.

A "truthful" answer is that good and qualified help at any level, regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity is hard to find right now in my market, and I am going to sack 2 current if/when I can find replacements.

Yes, it's like THAT.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Around here, you mostly see women working as flaggers or driving dump.

There are some in family drywall businesses, painting, insulation, etc, but not many.

Working on a crew where mandatory overtime during the busy season plays hell with a single parent. That feeds into a paycheck differential, since over time pay can be a pretty big bump in a paycheck.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

That's awesome


Cricket said:


> I'm not sure this answers your question, but...
> 
> Life made a few decisions for me. I had been a director of personnel for a company for many years, and one day I was simply done with it all and went out on the open road, perhaps running away from life for a bit. The truth is, I loved pulling flatbeds (especially pulling wide loads) but I was a single mom. My youngest daughter rode with me until she was 5 and it was time to start school. I seriously considered homeschooling her on the truck, but she was very advanced, and I was worried I couldn't teach her enough (She was fully reading by 4 years old.) so I left the road.
> 
> After that, it was really a matter of finding what I could do without leaving kids in daycare a gazillion hours a week. I landed on the internet and never quite looked back. Why? Cuz I love my work and believe it or not, I am pretty good at it.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

cwatbay said:


> I am not going to disagree with you, and, I am not going to defend TNT, but, both of you have some valid points. Unfotunately the question is based on an agenda driven article.
> 
> Here are some excerpts from that article:
> 
> ...


I agree to the article. I was referring to the thread tittle.... most chicks ain't going to be able to lift a 300 lbs piece of drill stem to drive pipe - so can't lots of men. 

Most women wouldn't want/wouldnt/and many couldn't do what I did to move up.the ladder, and that is how i judge. Just facts. 

But they can do lots of other stuff on a wider scale

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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

i have known of 3 women in the trades.

a plumber, sparky & a tile setter.

all 3 were absolutely top notch pro journeymen.

plumber and sparky were also their respective trades foreman on big jobs. very well respected. 

the tile setter was really an artist that did some really high end custom work. she filled in setting mundane tile in between custom stuff.

not that it matters, but all 3 were fairly good looking and had personality for days.

all 3 were also as tough as nails that not only had thick skin but well calloused. they were also more than willing to jump in and help a guy should he need it.

when needed they could & would embarrass a guy if he tried messing with them. they ate lunch with the crew everyday. 

just as there is an apparent stigma for a guy to skip college and work for a living there is also a stigma for a female to work in the trades.

have never seen a female carpenter.

if someone has the knowledge, experience & ability to do the job, and make me money....i really do not care what flavor they are.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

My favorite project manager by far that I worked for was a woman. She was a badass. Very organized very direct, also very sweet when she needed to be or could be

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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

ok, didn't think of the office as in the trades....

but i have also known a couple of pm's that were awesome at what they do.

two of my favorites have been female structural engineers.

both worked for the same firm.

one dressed and looked like a model. extremely intelligent was good at solving problems. just wasn't on a job site much.

the other was also extremely intelligent and a real practical on the spot problem solver. took her up on a lift, on the roof and was more than wiling to venture in to a crawl space, attic or ditch.

she ate lunch with us and no doubt could have been a stand up comic also....:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Office is definitely not trades. I just interviewed a project manager I thought about hiring yesterday, we are not a good fit. LMAO


griz said:


> ok, didn't think of the office as in the trades....
> 
> but i have also known a couple of pm's that were awesome at what they do.
> 
> ...


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

engineers may be somewhat in between as they do spend a lot of time on the job and we often work very closely with them.:thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Griz reminded me, my electrician turned over his company to his daughter, who is also a master electrician with a college degree. She handles mostly tbe commercial side, so I've only seen her socially.


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## grrlcarpenter (May 24, 2011)

*Woman here*

As a woman working in the trades for over 20 years my experience is that most of the young women I've worked with over the years pay a great deal of attention, soak up as much information as they can, tool up and then go into business for themselves. I think there's a correlation between women who are attracted to this type of work being independent by nature and looking to blaze their own trail.
They have been mostly pretty tough and will figure out a way to get any task done. Usually without hurting themselves. There have been exceptions to be sure but that's true of young men these days as well. I'm the last woman in the field in my company but at one point there was 9 of us spread throughout the field from jobsite lead to cabinet maker and everything in between. Now, all the women are in the office. Mostly as designers but also project managers and support staff.
In Seattle, our customers really like seeing women on the sites and I wish there were more of us.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaws said:


> You're just trolling now Rob. Like I said some of us don't think it's a dumb question, I've been in construction my whole life and I have only worked around the women I have hired. I am as qualified a contractor to answer that question as you are, And it's not a dumb question, nor do I think that cricket was trying to be adgenda driven. In the years she's been on this board I haven't ever seen her post anything that was agenda driven
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Nope, just standing up for my position. 

I never accused cricket of anything. By accident or design, it's still a political with the context that now with the shortage in labor are we now willing to hire more women. If I answer yes, then I am also admitting that I would not have hired a women without the shortage. Women don't go into construction because it doesn't interest them and if they do it's by far in the office or design.

You need to look up trolling. It is nothing to do with saying something is dumb. It has to do with inserting yourself in a conversation with no intent on discussing the topic but only to cause trouble. My point is valid. And I don't care that it got me banned and I don't care if it gets me banned again.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> No, I didn't get your point.
> 
> My own observation is that the swing in ratio towards more women/females in this biz hasn't moved much in the last decade for ME.
> 
> ...


In context of the article your point that it's like answering have you stopped beating your wife is exactly my point.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

griz said:


> ok, didn't think of the office as in the trades....
> 
> but i have also known a couple of pm's that were awesome at what they do.
> 
> ...


I recall a female engineer a few years back. We also have a truss designer who works with us that is also female. She is as good at or better than any other truss designer I have worked with. 

In all my years of hiring, I have only had one female out of hundreds of applicants. I don't think I have ever seen a female on any other framing crew either. Not that there aren't any, or they couldn't do it, just that I have never seen it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

When I was a union Carpenter doing form work we worked side by side with women and thought nothing of it. 


Mike.
_______________


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

grrlcarpenter said:


> As a woman working in the trades for over 20 years my experience is that most of the young women I've worked with over the years pay a great deal of attention, soak up as much information as they can, tool up and then go into business for themselves. I think there's a correlation between women who are attracted to this type of work being independent by nature and looking to blaze their own trail.
> They have been mostly pretty tough and will figure out a way to get any task done. Usually without hurting themselves. There have been exceptions to be sure but that's true of young men these days as well. I'm the last woman in the field in my company but at one point there was 9 of us spread throughout the field from jobsite lead to cabinet maker and everything in between. Now, all the women are in the office. Mostly as designers but also project managers and support staff.
> In Seattle, our customers really like seeing women on the sites and I wish there were more of us.


yup

Whole different approach when the macho is removed.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

I wouldn’t mind seeing some women on my subs payrolls. Then when I ask them to do something a certain way they might do it instead of; argue with me about it, finally agree to do it my way, and then do it their way.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

crazy thread. Some people need to chill out on here.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Biologically women far more important then Men, Ask any one how many hens one Rooster can take care of....

But there are gender based performance differences that the Free Labor markets have taken in to account when pricing male vs female labor.

If women preformed equally to men in GENERAL, I could hire women only, and produce anything at a fraction of the payroll costs, undercutting ANY all male shop....

Love the original post photo, NO eye protection, NO long sleeves shirt, no safety certs on Helmet, new, empty apron...AND a dangerous Pony tail.

Free image from Google?

My Masonry experience is 1-2 % female masons, most in the residential, brick laying end mostly,

There aren't many women that can lay 12-`14" wide CMUs all week long, IMHO.

But I have had 140 pound women out work 200 pound male labors......


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't even think my wife knows what I do for a living. 


Mike.
_______________


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## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't even think my wife knows what I do for a living.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________




I never realized how little my wife understood my job until she ways home on mat leave and her and the boy would come along for drives sometimes. 

One time we went to the dump and she said to me I never realized how long this takes.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

cedarboarder said:


> It happens when someone will not own up to what they said... It is funny watching him squirm tho.




I think it was figuratively ( metaphorically) speaking. I didn't take him literally. Probably because I know DWB and how he posts. But hey that's just me.


Mike.
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## theotherone (Mar 30, 2019)

I don't find a lot of women who are interested. They can probably do the work, but the ones I know don't do it for a living.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I just made an error in judgment by reading the last three pages right after lunch. I wonder how the Facebook groups can be all that different.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Still have the two women painters, and my roofer quit roofing and his sister bought him out. She's awesome, very organized. 

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## CityDecks (Jan 10, 2018)

Just came across this thread. I would hire a woman. No body else wants to work. It will be lil difficult on heavy stuff but we'll figure it out. 

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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

See, this is why hiring women is so difficult, or snowflakes.

You saying carrying heavy stuff would be an issue, will get you sued. You can't say that to the wrong person. Man or woman.

It isn't the big rude or sexual sexist stuff that gets you. It's the small day to day innocent conversations that get you in trouble. And usually long after you even remember making the comment, as it was just chit chat.

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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

VinylHanger said:


> See, this is why hiring women is so difficult, or snowflakes.
> 
> You saying carrying heavy stuff would be an issue, will get you sued. You can't say that to the wrong person. Man or woman.
> 
> ...


Big companies that hire send the applicants they hire to a 3 rd party physical check up place where they are tested to see if they meet your requirements. At one job I was required to carry 200 lbs. before I could work on a military job. This keeps the employer safe by knowing he isn't hiring a maypop.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Big companies that hire send the applicants they hire to a 3 rd party physical check up place where they are tested to see if they meet your requirements. At one job I was required to carry 200 lbs. before I could work on a military job. This keeps the employer safe by knowing he isn't hiring a maypop.


There's a lawyer to poke a hole in all that...


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## archtimb (Mar 25, 2007)

OK, I'll play.
I had no problem hiring a woman. Biggest concern that came up was that she could not stand a 28' extension ladder by herself. Both strength and vertically challenged.
Came with great references. Calfrutopia union trained. That lasted a month.
That's how long it took for her to file a workman's comp claim for carpal tunnel. A f#^%$ month!
During the process an insurance investigator told me off the record that doing it like this was part of the cali union training. Yeah, off the record. Cheaper for them to pay it than fight it.
Fool me once...
I'm really glad I don't have employees anymore.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Like any other employee I hire for what they can do. I dont expect a 65 year old site super to frame a wall or pack material, I dont expect a new hire to be able to do chit except dig holes and pack lumber, get lunch and sweep up, roll up, roll out. Etc...

The two women who worked for me in the field I made clear I didn't want them on tall ladders or to pack 5 gallons of paint etc. Told all the men that. Told them that. Plenty of other chit they were good at I needed. That will vary site to site 

Never a problem. If they hand t moved they'd still be on payroll 

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

VinylHanger said:


> See, this is why hiring women is so difficult, or snowflakes.
> 
> You saying carrying heavy stuff would be an issue, will get you sued. You can't say that to the wrong person. Man or woman.
> 
> ...


Clear direction from a HMFIC who has respect amongst their crews ends that. 3 year, never an issue. Not one. 

More importantly, if there was one, it was internalized and was never my problem. 

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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Just telling them not to get on tall ladders or carry 5 gallons of paint can get you in trouble these days.

Maybe not in Texas, but in the blue states it can. Folks are looking for things to sue for.

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

VinylHanger said:


> Just telling them not to get on tall ladders or carry 5 gallons of paint can get you in trouble these days.
> 
> Maybe not in Texas, but in the blue states it can. Folks are looking for things to sue for.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


I'm sure here too, but its harder than you think. Most lawyers arent going to take that case on commission, and I can certainly afford a better lawyer on the off chance they do. I won't have to pay chit

Being a good person and logical can cause issues, but generally not if you take care of people. Ive never even had an unemployment claim in almost 13 years and I've had dozens of hands 

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