# Looking for a good framer



## bigbaby (May 7, 2009)

Does anyone know some good questions to ask when hiring a new framer?
To make sure he knows what he's doing, is responsible and not just a fly-by-night? Thank you


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

edit:

Nevermind


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

You're a GC and you don't know what to ask a framer to figure out if they know their stuff?Forgive me if I find that a little odd.:blink:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

You have received a number of replies on your threads. None of the answers appear to satisfy you. It appears that you are looking for someone to give you an exact set of questions and answers to conduct an interview to see if someone is capable of doing the work. I've interviewed guys for work/jobs and never brought up their trade. As an experienced GC, as you claim to be, one should be able to BS with an individual and acertain whether they are full of BS or not. As JJ said, I too find it a little odd that you are an experienced GC yet cannot talk with an individual to verify their experience. Your original thread you indicated you knew about & were familar with framing. One has to wonder whether you are a DIYer, trying to be a GC, who got burned by an experienced sub. Not accusing just saying.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

It has been my unique experience to have worked under several women in my career. Had several working for me too. My most enjoyable position was as assistant superintendent to the very first female superintendent for U.S. Home. She specifically asked my boss for me to fill the position. I have to admit I fought it at first, but I gave in, and it worked out well.

All that to say that you might as well accept that men and women don't speak the same language, Guys. This gal obviously understands that, and is probably honestly asking for some specifics... words, and thoughts expressed and communicated the way each of us might to another man.

Since she really has no other way to hear how we might go about checking out a prospective framer, she is simply asking. Hell, I imagine most of us would have to ask a woman how to interview a nanny or a housekeeper................. yet we've lived in houses all our lives, and some of us have had children for years. Still, don't we abdicate those responsibilities, leaving our wives or girlfriends to do the job. Why? Because they know how to more comfortably and effictively talk woman to woman than we usually do.

Just a few thoughts to consider.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Willie T said:


> It has been my unique experience to have worked under several women in my career. Had several working for me too. My most enjoyable position was as assistant superintendent to the very first female superintendent for U.S. Home. She specifically asked my boss for me to fill the position. I have to admit I fought it at first, but I gave in, and it worked out well.
> 
> All that to say that you might as well accept that men and women don't speak the same language, Guys. This gal obviously understands that, and is probably honestly asking for some specifics... words, and thoughts expressed and communicated the way each of us might to another man.
> 
> ...


I would agree with you but I think you need to read the other thread.
She's been building for 25 years and on her own for 15.She supervises all her jobs herself.Now if you have the skills to supervise the trades to make sure things are done right the I would think you would know how to hire a framing sub.....


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

bigbaby said:


> Does anyone know some good questions to ask when hiring a new framer?
> To make sure he knows what he's doing, is responsible and not just a fly-by-night? Thank you


This is what they usually ask me first if they don't know me: 
Who have you been framing for recently?
How long is it gonna take you to frame my house?
How much do you want?
Do you have insurance?
How long have you been framing on your own?
Can you tell me some lumber salesmen that you have worked with before?
Can you sharpen your pencil a little on that quote,we are on a really tight budget?


will you start on my house and stay there til it is done?
Is there a job that you have done recently that I can go to and look at your work?
When can you start?
How many guys do you have? 
Do you have a forklift?
What kind of beer do you like?
Do you nail the floor or screw it?


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

OK then, my end of a conversation with a potential sub. We'll meet at a jobsite.

"Hey, Bill is it? How ya doin', I'm Loneframer.

What year is that truck you're driving? 08 huh? Does that have a Hemi in it? Nice!

So, how long have you been framing? 10 years? Where do you do most of your work?

How about equipment? Do you have a reliable generator? No? How about a gas compressor? You do? Great. What brand guns you firing? OK, well, figure all gun fasteners into your bid. I'll cover loose nails and hardware.
How many guys are on your crew? 4? How long have you had them with you?

Here, take a look at these plans. I want you to look at some of these cross sections. There are a few things you really have to be aware of. Turn to A/4, blah, blah, blah. OK, now check out the first floor structural plan. See the area with 12" centers? "


OK, you get the point. If he knows his way around the plans, that's a good start. Even if he won't need a generator, it's good to know if he has one or not. Typically, a guy with all the tools of the trade is serious about his profession. Keep asking questions about his crew, tools, types of projects, etc. You have to be sincere though. Don't make it feel like an interrogation.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

What Riz said ^^^

Plus;

Where are you working now? I want to see you and the boys in action.:thumbsup: said with enthusiasm.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> What Riz said ^^^
> 
> Plus;
> 
> Where are you working now? I want to see you and the boys in action.:thumbsup: said with enthusiasm.


 Who? Me?:shifty: Still in Purgatory at the House Of Horrors.:devil:


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

Gus Dering said:


> I want to see you and the boys in action.:thumbsup: said with enthusiasm.


Not with too much enthusiasm. 
I think that could be considered sexual harrassment. :jester:


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

loneframer said:


> Who? Me?:shifty: Still in Purgatory at the House Of Horrors.:devil:


If I wanted to see you, I have plenty of pictures to pull up.:laughing: Wanna see one?



Craftsman Jay said:


> Not with too much enthusiasm.
> I think that could be considered sexual harrassment. :jester:


 I'm ass--uming my point was obvious but I will clarify.

The best interview you can get is an unannounced visit to an active job he is framing.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Gus Dering said:


> If I wanted to see you, I have plenty of pictures to pull up.:laughing: Wanna see one?


uhhhhh, no:laughing:, but here's a video you can enjoy.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

If you hired some Hooter girls to cheer you on, I would think your video would get more hits.:clap:

Not a dig on those legs of yours, just saying...


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## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

If it is a crew ask other people in the trades and contractors

If it is a single person you are looking for trying him out
for 1 week has worked well for me


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## nailit69 (Sep 8, 2010)

An old timer once told me he could tell how good a guy was by the way he sharpened his pencil. If he whittled it like a damn spear he probably was just ok, if he carved that sucker with precision and skill he was a good carpenter, I still look at that to this day... and it's been spot on everytime.

You can usually tell by the kind/brand of tools a guy uses as well.


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## Cache (Sep 18, 2007)

If it is a single person I tell them they have to work along side me for two days @ $10/hour. I'm not looking for the most experienced guys in the world, but I am looking for someone who learns fast and will do things my way once they know what my way is.

The following is the very basics, but will save me a ton of hours if they do it my way, and time is money.

All jobs have a miter saw setup with sawhorse stands 10' out in either direction and set to the right height. This way they can handle 16' plates. This is necessary because all plates are to be cut in the following manner.


Stack the top and bottom plates nearly flush on one end.
Tack them together with a 8 sinker a few feet in.
Load them onto the saw and square off one end (both plates at the same time).
Measure and mark the length accurately.
Cut them to length (both at the same time).
Flip them up on edge while still attached and layout both at the same time.
Last point is during assembly, back studs (they need to know what those are) must be set back off the plate ends about 1/4".
It might seem like I'm getting picky, but time is money to me. If the plates are cut this way they will all be exactly the same length and the ends will be square. Studs will all be parallel. If the back studs are set properly, then plates will all fit tightly together at intersections. 

If the above is true, 95% of all walls can be set accurately without the need to check for plumb. When all the walls are in place, the building plumbs and squares itself. That's $thousands in my pocket at year end.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Cache said:


> If it is a single person I tell them they have to work along side me for two days @ $10/hour. I'm not looking for the most experienced guys in the world, but I am looking for someone who learns fast and will do things my way once they know what my way is.
> 
> The following is the very basics, but will save me a ton of hours if they do it my way, and time is money.
> 
> ...


I hold back studs 1/8", but otherwise, same MO.:thumbsup:


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## parkers5150 (Dec 5, 2008)

if time is money?, why on earth would you use a CHOP SAW for plate & detail???????????????????????????


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

Here is a question to ask
When reading plans, what does the black box with the “x” in the middle mean?


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## Cache (Sep 18, 2007)

Joe,

I agree that if you are doing it that way, you method is certainly the fastest. But, and I mean no offense at all, if someone came to me and told me they have a "superior" framing method, and then proceeded to tell me that I'll have to toenail all studs, I wouldn't even consider it.

But with 4 or 5 other New Jersey framers on this thread, I think I'll be outnumbered on that one, and we could argue toe nailing vs face nailing all day long. But over here in the west if I started toe nailing all my studs I'd get laughed at.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Cache said:


> Joe,
> 
> I agree that if you are doing it that way, you method is certainly the fastest. But, and I mean no offense at all, if someone came to me and told me they have a "superior" framing method, and then proceeded to tell me that I'll have to toenail all studs, I wouldn't even consider it.
> 
> But with 4 or 5 other New Jersey framers on this thread, I think I'll be outnumbered on that one, and we could argue toe nailing vs face nailing all day long. But over here in the west if I started toe nailing all my studs I'd get laughed at.


Toe nailing studs is more than likely a North Jersey concept. I've been framing primarily along the South Jersey coast since 1985 and have only seen one framer since then that nails his sole plate to the floor and doubles the top plate before nailing the wall together. That happened to be in a tract home developement.


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## Joe Carola (Jun 15, 2004)

loneframer said:


> Toe nailing studs is more than likely a North Jersey concept. I've been framing primarily along the South Jersey coast since 1985 and have only seen one framer since then that nails his sole plate to the floor and doubles the top plate before nailing the wall together. That happened to be in a tract home developement.


How do you frame your plates and walls?


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

I would like to know that also?


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Joe Carola said:


> How do you frame your plates and walls?


Top and bottom plate are tacked, cut to length, laid out and labeled. After every set of plates is cut and marked, they are pulled back neatly and as many walls as possible are spread out on the deck, stocked and "box" nailed together.(or end nailed, as some refer to it) After the walls are stood, nailed to the deck and tied into adjacent partitions, then braced, any double plates that weren't installed on the ground are installed. Most double plates are installed while down, with the exception of walls that carry through a partition, such as back to back closets, or octagonal areas.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

loneframer said:


> Top and bottom plate are tacked, cut to length, laid out and labeled. After every set of plates is cut and marked, they are pulled back neatly and as many walls as possible are spread out on the deck, stocked and "box" nailed together.(or end nailed, as some refer to it) After the walls are stood, nailed to the deck and tied into adjacent partitions, then braced, any double plates that weren't installed on the ground are installed. Most double plates are installed while down, with the exception of walls that carry through a partition, such as back to back closets, or octagonal areas.


Why no double plates on the octagons?


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Warren said:


> Why no double plates on the octagons?


 I always 22.5 my top and bottom plate and rip studs for the corner. I like to stand the wall, toe nail the long points nice and flush, then toe along the miter into the ripped studs before double plating.

I know lots of guys prefer to lap 45 over 45 for more tie in on the corners, but I really like the 22.5 miter for accurate corners. I cut all plates with a chopsaw.


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Cache said:


> You're not the first guy to challenge me on the chop saw idea, and you won't be the last. I've heard every argument about why using a chop saw is slow. I've won every speed challenge to date. Not only is the chop saw faster, but it results in more accurate cuts.
> 
> You call out a measurement for plates (or even mark them in place and cut) and your chances of getting two plates back exactly the same length are about 50%. Slightly mitered, slightly beveled, or cut the wrong side of the line. I've seen/heard them all. Then I get to watch my good employees spend an extra day's worth of time plumbing each end and center of every wall. If the plates are nailed together and cut/marked at the same time, they are always perfect and rarely ever need plumbing. The question is simple. If you're cutting two or three boards at a time, what is the proper tool for the job. 12" miter saw.
> 
> Also, there are a ton of repeated cuts in framing. Trimmers, cripples, blocking, and sometimes studs if the wall height is non-standard. I'll challenge anyone who thinks they can measure-mark-cut forty trimmers, cripples, and 14 1/2" blocks faster with a little 7 1/4" circular saw than I can with a 12" miter saw. Then I'll give 10:1 odds to anyone who thinks they can use the other method and build, square, plumb, and brace a house full of walls faster.


In a perfect world that would all be fine. You can't just cut all the trimmers the same.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

loneframer said:


> I always 22.5 my top and bottom plate and rip studs for the corner. I like to stand the wall, toe nail the long points nice and flush, then toe along the miter into the ripped studs before double plating.
> 
> I know lots of guys prefer to lap 45 over 45 for more tie in on the corners, but I really like the 22.5 miter for accurate corners. I cut all plates with a chopsaw.


I 22.5 the first top plate too. On a 2x4 wall, I rip a stud on a 22.5 bevel at 2 1/16" This gives me two equal pieces to use for the wedge on each side. I face nail through the end stud into this wedge. When the walls are adjoined, I reach outside and nail wedge to wedge. It also leaves enough space inside for the insulator to work with. 

The double top plates we do 45 overlaps on. Most times these can be cut prior to the wall lift. Sometimes on the last wall it is easier after the wall is in place.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

knucklehead said:


> In a perfect world that would all be fine. You can't just cut all the trimmers the same.


 I always cut jacks the same length. If the header ends up a little proud, it gets power planed to fit.


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## Birch (Jul 20, 2009)

*The best of both schools*

I’ve had a “Shop-Saw” setup, with side wings and stops, on my sites since ’79. It’s a production tool of unparalleled value IMO, especially good for 22.5 picture frame style plate miters. (I don’t like the term “Chop”, so I use the local Hispanic pronunciation “Shop”  to describe the saw and the quality of the cuts produced by it. “Chop” infers that the tool is used to chop wood….) 

As far as build-up and precutting TR’s goes, most 6-8 standard door height trimmers are precut at 11-1/4” off a 92-5/8” stud. That will make the matching special cut trimmers for the full size headers lineup fairly close. All 6-8 windows are furred down a 1-1/2 to match the finished door trim height. (Fin mounted window units)

Most walls are assembled on an 8” tall raised staging platform on my sites. This consolidates the tools and materials for improved efficiency for that stage of the frame. Trash is not strewn around the floor, etc. I like to setup in the shade if possible. This takes most of the backache out of wall-day.

The only buildup we do is headers. Pre cut a few trimmers; everything else is cut and assembled as needed. There’s less piles of buildup taking up workspace and no extras at the end.

First floor 2-story headers and headers for openings over 4’ wide are typically 2x12 or engineered. Where headers are all the way up, we gang cut the TR’s in place for these situations. (Headers are nailed flush with stud tops and the TR’s are slid in under the header and gang-cut to fit flush at the bottom. No measuring, and if your good with the saw, no marking either.) All other Trimmers, studs, stuff over 6' long, etc., are gang cut with circular saws. Any repetitive cuts such as window sills, cripples, soffit blocks, etc are cut at the “Shop-Saw”. This saw is especially useful for cutting small cutoffs leftover from other gang cutting tasks into useable pieces that otherwise would be tossed. It helps us use the materials better. :thumbsup:


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## Cache (Sep 18, 2007)

knucklehead said:


> In a perfect world that would all be fine. You can't just cut all the trimmers the same.


For the most part you can precut the trimmers. If a house has 20 interior doors, that are 6'8", then all the trimmers are gonna be the same length. 81" or 81 1/8" depending on who's framing. All headers are pre-assembled. All tees and corners too.

Obviously cripples will need to be cut to fit, but not all of them. Rarely will an interior door cripple in a non-bearing wall need to be cut to fit, cause the header will only vary in thickness by about 1/8" at the most. Also, every home that I build has 9' ceilings or higher, so I never run into a problem with a header not fitting.


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