# Makita LXT and Cold Weather



## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

I've noticed issues w/ my LXT batteries not wanting to charge up in cold weather. At first I assumed it was because the charger itself was cold, but then I had a warm charger on site and went out to the truck to get a spare battery and the cold battery would not charge. 

Seems as though this is an issue w/ all the batteries I have for this series. I checked both of my chargers and all my batteries and if the charger is cold and the battery is warm, it charges no problem.

Anyone else run into this? Anyone heard of a fix for this besides lugging all your batteries into the shop at the end of the day? Kind of a pain in the butt if you forget to charge fresh batteries before the end of the work day and need one first thing.

Thanks,


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

HandyHails said:


> I've noticed issues w/ my LXT batteries not wanting to charge up in cold weather. At first I assumed it was because the charger itself was cold, but then I had a warm charger on site and went out to the truck to get a spare battery and the cold battery would not charge.
> 
> Seems as though this is an issue w/ all the batteries I have for this series. I checked both of my chargers and all my batteries and if the charger is cold and the battery is warm, it charges no problem.
> 
> ...


Its been around the high 20's low 30's here the last few weeks and mine have been charging ok but they will have a problem when it's really cold. You could just leave the batteries in your vehicle and they will warm up whilst your waiting for your truck to get upto temp in the morning. I do that with stuff like hand cleaner and handy wipes as they will be frozen solid for the day if I leave them in the trailer.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

Yeah, I was thinking of making a spot in the cab to store a few to warm up on the way to the job in the morning.


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## moonlk (Mar 12, 2008)

I have the same problem with Ridgid L-ion batteries. Don't want to charge when cold and also fully charged batts have little power until they warm up.


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## mnjconstruction (Oct 5, 2008)

my makita gets put up for the winter for the most part. i bring out the ryobi, non lithium 18vt sets. i know there wicked cheap but they still charge pretty good in the cold. i have 12 batteries for it and two 6 slot chargers, so it works out very well, i can charge all 12 batteries at once and we good for the day


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Ni-Cd works much better in the cold. Li-Io are all affected by the cold.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I still have ni-cads. They don't care about the cold.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

My trailer was 6f today inside and batts where the same. Took them straight from trailer and started drilling 1.5" holes through 4x4's and they worked ok. Def not as powerful as they are when at 60f but after 2-3 holes they were back at full power. Didn't charge any of them until after I had used them so they charged fine.


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## Hobroom (Jan 30, 2007)

That can start to happen as the battery heats up, like on a circ saw that uses a lot of power. On an impact driver they don't use much, so they never really get much better in the cold.

Overall, DeWalt has a better cordless system than Makita which is funny because they haven't redone the XRP tools in years. Don't get me wrong I have some LXT tools and they are great in their own way. But DeWalt makes tools that work better where it counts.



BCConstruction said:


> My trailer was 6f today inside and batts where the same. Took them straight from trailer and started drilling 1.5" holes through 4x4's and they worked ok. Def not as powerful as they are when at 60f but after 2-3 holes they were back at full power. Didn't charge any of them until after I had used them so they charged fine.


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

That's odd. Li-Ion is supposed to have the best cold weather performance. My NiMH Panasonic is supposed to suck in the cold, but they tend to work just fine.


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## Hobroom (Jan 30, 2007)

It depends on what type of lithium ion cells they use. Marketing BS says lithium ion is lithium ion. But its not the case between all brands. Makita batteries are cheaper, and work ok generally, but not as good under extreme temperatures. They also overload and get hot a lot easier.



Remodelor said:


> That's odd. Li-Ion is supposed to have the best cold weather performance. My NiMH Panasonic is supposed to suck in the cold, but they tend to work just fine.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Hobroom said:


> That can start to happen as the battery heats up, like on a circ saw that uses a lot of power. On an impact driver they don't use much, so they never really get much better in the cold.
> 
> Overall, DeWalt has a better cordless system than Makita which is funny because they haven't redone the XRP tools in years. Don't get me wrong I have some LXT tools and they are great in their own way. But DeWalt makes tools that work better where it counts.


Infact the makita cordless system is superior to the dewalt system. They have higher mah ratting, higher c rate and discharge rates, faster charge times, chargers have built in balance system with cell cooling and temperature probe. They even have chip inside that monitors charge cycles and abuse on each battery. 

Also dewalt quality is below makita even though they are more money. The XRP tools are dated in technology and dewalt took up the use of li-ion almost 4 years after makita. 

Dewalt is on the fine line of being seen as home owner brand tools.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Remodelor said:


> That's odd. Li-Ion is supposed to have the best cold weather performance. My NiMH Panasonic is supposed to suck in the cold, but they tend to work just fine.


They do function better in cold weather compared to other chemistries like ni-cd and ni-mh. They can also supply much more current.


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> They do function better in cold weather compared to other chemistries like ni-cd and ni-mh. They can also supply much more current.


I'm sure that's true. I'm just saying that I haven't noticed a significant performance drop in cold weather. I do agree with you about DeWalt being a borderline brand. I put them only slightly above Ryobi in Quality, and below brands like Makita, Hitachi, Ridgid, etc...


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## RCT (Jan 5, 2010)

Remodelor said:


> I'm sure that's true. I'm just saying that I haven't noticed a significant performance drop in cold weather. I do agree with you about DeWalt being a borderline brand. I put them only slightly above Ryobi in Quality, and below brands like Makita, Hitachi, Ridgid, etc...


Are the newer Dewalts lower quality than the old ones? I have had a 14.4v XRP drill for about 6 years now and it's still going strong. It's been throughly abused too.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

RCT said:


> Are the newer Dewalts lower quality than the old ones? I have had a 14.4v XRP drill for about 6 years now and it's still going strong. It's been throughly abused too.


When even the local dewalt rep tells you they are cutting production quality to get costs down on the cordless range then I would say yes. I used to have the xrp tools when they first come out. They were nice tools but then again they wernt being pushed towards the home owner.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The charger will not charge the batteries if they are to hot or to cold. There is a temp chip in the battery that communicates with the charger. There is nothing wrong, it is a protection mechanism. You should not put your batteries in extreme temps. If you want them to last a long time, bring them n from the cold or have some sort of a heater in the truck to protect them.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> The charger will not charge the batteries if they are to hot or to cold. There is a temp chip in the battery that communicates with the charger. There is nothing wrong, it is a protection mechanism. You should not put your batteries in extreme temps.* If you want them to last a long time, bring them n from the cold or have some sort of a heater in the truck to protect them*.



Screw that.:laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Screw that.:laughing:


Exactly! When it's 90° out, the drills ride in the truck bed with the rest of the tools. Inside the cab is reserved for important things...like my laser or tile saw. :jester:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Good quality cells should have no problem with handling heat as much as 150f its very rare they will get to these temps even with hard abuse but they can handle it. The issue is they don't like taking a charge at them temps like Leo says. They can also be stored down to -50f but I'm unsure of how they would function at these temps


Its going to be interesting when they make tools with lipo batteries. Those things can be charged at c rates of 10 unlike li-ion 1-2c and they can put out currents in the 50-100c range compared to 10-20 with li-ion. These tools will then be more powerful than corded tools.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

My batteries last 4-5-6 years. I treat them nice, no temp extremes. I hear people complaining that their batteries only last about a year. Sitting in your truck year in and out...that's what you get.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Here's some tips for li-ion cells. Always keep them charged if being used regularly. But never keep them fully charged if they are going to be store long term. Also never leave them empty if being stored long term. If you are going to leave them a couple of weeks then give them a 50% charge. If they fall below there cut of voltage then they can register on some chargers as faulty. This is what happens when they are left for to long with no charge. Its better to use them often than to leave them sitting.


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## Hobroom (Jan 30, 2007)

LXT cells out currenting DeWalt's? Sure, I think it does say that on the back of the cereal box, doesn't it?

Good example is the grinder and that big ole red light that comes on then shuts off the tool when you're hurting the battery (which doesn't take much effort either). No such problems on any DeWalt tool. I prefer batteries that are meant to handle the tool they go into. Not ones that have holes in them for the charger fan so you get lots of ice and water inside if you drop them outside.

Most DeWalt tools are better built than Makita. It's just that Makita fools you into thinking otherwise because they have nice textured grips and pretty-sounding motors. Looks quality on the surface, but DeWalt puts the effort into the inside of the tool and overall durability where it counts.



BCConstruction said:


> Infact the makita cordless system is superior to the dewalt system. They have higher mah ratting, higher c rate and discharge rates, faster charge times, chargers have built in balance system with cell cooling and temperature probe. They even have chip inside that monitors charge cycles and abuse on each battery.
> 
> Also dewalt quality is below makita even though they are more money. The XRP tools are dated in technology and dewalt took up the use of li-ion almost 4 years after makita.
> 
> Dewalt is on the fine line of being seen as home owner brand tools.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Hobroom said:


> LXT cells out currenting DeWalt's? Sure, I think it does say that on the back of the cereal box, doesn't it?
> 
> Good example is the grinder and that big ole red light that comes on then shuts off the tool when you're hurting the battery (which doesn't take much effort either). No such problems on any DeWalt tool. I prefer batteries that are meant to handle the tool they go into. Not ones that have holes in them for the charger fan so you get lots of ice and water inside if you drop them outside.
> 
> Most DeWalt tools are better built than Makita. It's just that Makita fools you into thinking otherwise because they have nice textured grips and pretty-sounding motors. Looks quality on the surface, but DeWalt puts the effort into the inside of the tool and overall durability where it counts.


Clealrly you know nothing about cell technology. Both batteries have a constant discharge current of around 30 amps. Tools cells are normally around a 1c discharge rate. But the makita cells are a higher total mah rateing which means longer run times. Any knowledgeable tool geek will know makita tools are better quality and better spec tools than dewalt. Dewalt have been heading to the home owner field for a few years now. Yes they are still ok tools but for less money you can buy makita, pannasonic, Bosch ect ect. 

The grinder has a low voltage protection circuit built in. If you run the battery below the cut off voltage it will be drastically damaged. These circuits prevent this. They are built into almost every makita tool from the flashlight to the radio and grinder. Remember the grinder has a always on switch which can be left on by accident. This is the reason for the cut offs. Perhaps educate your self about tools before coming out with lies.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Dewalt puts in effort,:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Dewalt puts in effort,:laughing::laughing::laughing:


The only effort they put in is 10 service centers in every sq mile.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I started out with the 9.6v Makita. They were great at the time. I switched over to DeWalt for a good long time. It was a 12v system and it was pretty good. After I got sick and tired of buying new batteries because they would die in about a year I switched back to Makita. I couldn't be happier. I use them in the shop environment mostly. I use the 1.5AH batteries because they are lighter. They die quicker, but the charger is 20ft away and always has a battery in it. I have a couple of 3AH and I use them more in the field so I have work time. I have the Black and whites and the minis. Great for cabinet work. And pretty good for some hard use.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Leo G said:


> I started out with the 9.6v Makita. They were great at the time. I switched over to DeWalt for a good long time. It was a 12v system and it was pretty good. After I got sick and tired of buying new batteries because they would die in about a year I switched back to Makita. I couldn't be happier. I use them in the shop environment mostly. I use the 1.5AH batteries because they are lighter. They die quicker, but the charger is 20ft away and always has a battery in it. I have a couple of 3AH and I use them more in the field so I have work time. I have the Black and whites and the minis. Great for cabinet work. And pretty good for some hard use.


I done the same thing as you Leo. Used to have dewalt 14.4v kit and got introduced to the makita sets. There's. No comparison in my eyes. Left all my dewalt stuff behind in the UK and bought over my makita stuff.


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## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

Hobroom said:


> LXT cells out currenting DeWalt's? Sure, I think it does say that on the back of the cereal box, doesn't it?
> 
> Good example is the grinder and that big ole red light that comes on then shuts off the tool when you're hurting the battery (which doesn't take much effort either). No such problems on any DeWalt tool. I prefer batteries that are meant to handle the tool they go into. Not ones that have holes in them for the charger fan so you get lots of ice and water inside if you drop them outside.
> 
> Most DeWalt tools are better built than Makita. It's just that Makita fools you into thinking otherwise because they have nice textured grips and pretty-sounding motors. Looks quality on the surface, but DeWalt puts the effort into the inside of the tool and overall durability where it counts.



Not true from my talks with Makita. The light is designed to come on when you are over bearing on the force of the blade. The blade or disc should be doing the work in any grinder. You don't need to push hard to get the job done. The light comes on to prevent any burn out of the gearing in the grinder and it does help not drain the battery faster than it should be drained.

Metabo also uses a similar technology in their corded grinders and so does Makita in corded grinders, but it is mechanical. This prevents burnout of the motor of the grinder. SJS is the Makita system that disengages the gears until pressure is released.


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## Hobroom (Jan 30, 2007)

Actually it's fairly wide knowledge that the A123 cells in DeWalt outperform the Sonys in Makita for high current demand. A123's cells were specifically designed for this type of use, and can hang with NiCad for power output - something that the Sony's can't do. This has been known for the last few years.

I have the LXT grinder, it's a current limit function that it uses. It's lame and doesn't belong on a powertool. No other way to describe it.



BCConstruction said:


> Clealrly you know nothing about cell technology. Both batteries have a constant discharge current of around 30 amps. Tools cells are normally around a 1c discharge rate. But the makita cells are a higher total mah rateing which means longer run times. Any knowledgeable tool geek will know makita tools are better quality and better spec tools than dewalt. Dewalt have been heading to the home owner field for a few years now. Yes they are still ok tools but for less money you can buy makita, pannasonic, Bosch ect ect.
> 
> The grinder has a low voltage protection circuit built in. If you run the battery below the cut off voltage it will be drastically damaged. These circuits prevent this. They are built into almost every makita tool from the flashlight to the radio and grinder. Remember the grinder has a always on switch which can be left on by accident. This is the reason for the cut offs. Perhaps educate your self about tools before coming out with lies.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Hobroom said:


> Actually it's fairly wide knowledge that the A123 cells in DeWalt outperform the Sonys in Makita for high current demand. A123's cells were specifically designed for this type of use, and can hang with NiCad for power output - something that the Sony's can't do. This has been known for the last few years.
> 
> I have the LXT grinder, it's a current limit function that it uses. It's lame and doesn't belong on a powertool. No other way to describe it.


Yes the a123 cells do have a higher c rate. I think it's 12 compared to 10 with the makita. What your forgetting is c rate is based on total mah so the makita makes up this difference by having a higher mah rating cell in a 5s2p setup. They use a 5s1p setup in the 1500mah batteries. This is why the dewalt and makita both have the same exact continuos current output of 30amps. I have the spec sheets handy some where. Back in the day when a123 released them cells they were pretty good cells and people would use them for RC use. So I'm fully aware of a123 technology. Also li-ion can supply much more current than ni-cd. c rates for li-ion are far higher than ni-cd. That's one reason why they are common in electric vehicles as well as weight.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

I chose my LXT line because I found a drill/impact combo on sale somewhere for $189 for the set. I've been adding on ever since. I will say w/ the exception of a drill that got left out in the rain and then allowed to rust up, that all of my LXT tools are working beautifully. 

I don't need 100 reviews of their crummy angle grinder on Amazon to know that a cordless grinder is just this side of worthless for cutting anything but 1/4" cbu. I've got their collated screw gun and love that thing. I also have their cordless SD hammer drill and love that as well as it comes in crazy handy sometimes for a few holes. Their recip saw is great as well. I really like their higher end circular saw as well. The light and brake really make that tool nice to have. 

I was never really big on Makita. I started on the standard Dewalt stuff about 15 years ago when I started framing houses. In just the last decade I've watched ALL the major companies drop quality in their tools. Dewalt as much if not more so than the rest. Sadly I can honestly say I don't even look seriously on Dewalt tools anymore. Is the Makita LXT line perfect? Not by any means, but I really feel they have the best spread of versatility and reliability out there in the cordless market right now.

Oh yeah, and I'm not taking my batteries in the house in the evening either. I just have to remember to have them charged for the day. I finally got my inverter up and running today. I have two chargers hanging on the wall of my cut-away that I can pop a pair of batteries in and as soon as they warm up enough the charger fires right up for me. Generally on longer remodel jobs I will just keep a few batteries stashed on the job somewhere.


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## Hobroom (Jan 30, 2007)

I ran across this the other day and thought back to this thread.. Some guy made a video of Makita's top model LXT hammerdrill, BHP454 getting used by a DeWalt DCD950 side by side test running a self-feeder bit. Looks like about a 2 9/16






If you go to about 2:30 in the video, you can see the DeWalt drilling the same hole.

This seems about right comparing LXTs to the XRPs in general. Usually the DeWalts have better runtime and power, despite the smaller AH batteries, all battery cell spec discussions aside.

Not saying Makita is bad, I have a couple of the LXTs, I like the impact drivers very much, just that DeWalt is better overall on the high power tools.


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## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

Hobroom said:


> I ran across this the other day and thought back to this thread.. Some guy made a video of Makita's top model LXT hammerdrill, BHP454 getting used by a DeWalt DCD950 side by side test running a self-feeder bit. Looks like about a 2 9/16
> 
> If you go to about 2:30 in the video, you can see the DeWalt drilling the same hole.
> 
> ...


Video from a Dewalt forum owner is where this originated. I don't trust a guy with sandals doing power tool tests.

Dewalt has cheapened their product line and done a fine job with their marketing department.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Hobroom said:


> I ran across this the other day and thought back to this thread.. Some guy made a video of Makita's top model LXT hammerdrill, BHP454 getting used by a DeWalt DCD950 side by side test running a self-feeder bit. Looks like about a 2 9/16
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have owned both the xrp kit and the dewalt kit they were even used side by side for a few years as old boss used the dewalt kit until he even changed over to makita. There's no way a nicd with 2.4 amp hour can run longer and put out more amps than a li-ion 3.0amp hour. The discharge curve on the li-ion are much flatter than a nicd which loses most of it's power 80% into it's discharge cycle. I don't even believe you have the makita tools after hearing you say this because there no comparison between the 2. Go and try the lxt and you won't ever use dewalt again.


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> I have owned both the xrp kit and the dewalt kit they were even used side by side for a few years as old boss used the dewalt kit until he even changed over to makita. There's no way a nicd with 2.4 amp hour can run longer and put out more amps than a li-ion 3.0amp hour. The discharge curve on the li-ion are much flatter than a nicd which loses most of it's power 80% into it's discharge cycle. I don't even believe you have the makita tools after hearing you say this because there no comparison between the 2. Go and try the lxt and you won't ever use dewalt again.


The Dewalt in that video is using a DC9180 XRP Li-Ion battery, not a NiCad, but it is still only rated at 2.4 Ah.
This tells me that the Dewalt is doing an equal or greater amount of work as the Makita XLT, but slightly faster overall and with a lower Ah battery. 
Since the XRP Li-Ion battery has less capacity than the Makita 3.0 Ah battery, it would seem to indicate that the Dewalt uses a more efficient motor to gear ratio design.
If not, there has to be some other explanation for its ability to do the same work with less battery capacity.

It looks like the person who made this video has also made several others with various brands of tools, so it doesn’t appear he is biased toward any one manufacturer.


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

The Makita is turning at an obviously slower speed than the Dewalt. MAYBE that has something to do w/ it............

Dewalt is lame....

your turn.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

DuMass said:


> The Dewalt in that video is using a DC9180 XRP Li-Ion battery, not a NiCad, but it is still only rated at 2.4 Ah.
> This tells me that the Dewalt is doing an equal or greater amount of work as the Makita XLT, but slightly faster overall and with a lower Ah battery.
> Since the XRP Li-Ion battery has less capacity than the Makita 3.0 Ah battery, it would seem to indicate that the Dewalt uses a more efficient motor to gear ratio design.
> If not, there has to be some other explanation for its ability to do the same work with less battery capacity.
> ...


Battery capacity is not what makes a drill powerful. You need to look at the discharge rates. They are normally anything from 1-100c the makita pack is a lower c rate than the nano tech cells but it makes up for it buy having more powerful cells to begin with. They both put out the same current so neither can supply more power than the other. Makita motors are a better motor than dewalt uses. There's no doubt about that. When doing any test you have to make sure both batteries are in good condition and fully charged, they have the same amount of charges and discharges, they have the same amount of use before the test, they both use exactly the same stock and rotate just in case one is more dense than the other, you have to make sure hardware as in drill bits, screws and nails are all within same tolerances of size and sharpness. There's far to many variables that influence an outcome of a tool test than just it's power. 

But like I have said before having tested most of the makita set side by side with most of the dewalt set I have never found a dewalt tool to be better than a makita. Anyone who has tested either drill would never say the dewalt is better.


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Battery capacity is not what makes a drill powerful. You need to look at the discharge rates. They are normally anything from 1-100c the makita pack is a lower c rate than the nano tech cells but it makes up for it buy having more powerful cells to begin with. They both put out the same current so neither can supply more power than the other. Makita motors are a better motor than dewalt uses. There's no doubt about that. When doing any test you have to make sure both batteries are in good condition and fully charged, they have the same amount of charges and discharges, they have the same amount of use before the test, they both use exactly the same stock and rotate just in case one is more dense than the other, you have to make sure hardware as in drill bits, screws and nails are all within same tolerances of size and sharpness. There's far to many variables that influence an outcome of a tool test than just it's power.
> 
> But like I have said before having tested most of the makita set side by side with most of the dewalt set I have never found a dewalt tool to be better than a makita. Anyone who has tested either drill would never say the dewalt is better.


Yes, I understand that, and we’re not talking about laboratory test standards, but real world application. 
You could likely do the same tests over and over with different density materials, etc. and the results will always be similarly close one way or the other every time.

What I’m getting at is that for all its apparent faults, the DeWalt XRP drill and battery as a system, is a performance match equal to the Makita XLT drill and battery as a system, even with its larger Ah battery capacity.

In the video, the guy removes and uses the same bit from the Makita after it has drilled 21 holes, so any advantage of a fresh, sharp bit would have to go to the Makita in this case.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

There really nothing in it between the rated figures for each drill. Where the makita shines is in the quality, service, features, reliability. You get a great deal more value from a makita than a dewalt. Dewalt really have gone down the pan the last few years and only getting worse. They even admit they now focus their tool design around home owner budgets because that where the money is.


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