# Architects and engineers won't send CAD for take off?



## NicParish

In our area, we are having trouble getting architects and engineers to send us CAD (DWG) files. This would greatly help us get a more precise and quicker price and take off! Am I missing something on why they don't want to send this to us?


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## Rio

If they give you the CAD files they are giving you control of their work. Ask them for pdf's if that'll work. 

Also sometimes you can make a deal for stripped down CAD files that strictly relate to the work your'e involved in.

Have you asked them why they don't want to release them?


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## JR Shepstone

Can't they also convert the files to Read-Only? Maybe they're just trying to keep control over the proprietary info so you can't add or delete something and end up having them be liable for something they aren't even aware of. 

Someone send out the Bat Signal for Andy so he chimes in.


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## NINZAN STUDIO

I work for an architectural firm. We hardly ever release CAD files to clients. Only if they've 1. signed a confidentiality agreement OR 2. have paid a fee for repetition rights or for the actual copyright. The architect holds copyrights to their "intellectual property" and "instruments of service". CAD files would enable anyone to get a project, slightly change or reproduce it wholly, basically negating the need for the architect who produced the work originally.

For bid purposes, we typically provide PDFs to the print shop. GCs responsible to get their own prints or use the PDFs.


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## NINZAN STUDIO

That said, there's software out there that will convert PDF files to DWG or DXF file formats which can be opened in AutoCAD or other drafting software. You lose layers and color usually, but the line information is there.


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## NicParish

NINZAN STUDIO said:


> That said, there's software out there that will convert PDF files to DWG or DXF file formats which can be opened in AutoCAD or other drafting software. You lose layers and color usually, but the line information is there.


Thanks. We frequently use the PDF method. Do you recommend a software to convert PDF to DWG?


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## NINZAN STUDIO

I've just always used Adobe Illustrator since we have it in the office. I'll download PDF cut sheets or manuals from product websites and extract drawings for use in our construction docs, saves time in having to draw stupid stuff out like that, appliances or equipment etc.

I would google "PDF converter" or something similar. Maybe "PDF to DWG".


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## Solar Control

While our takeoffs are probably not nearly as complex to perform than yours, we have found Acrobat more than capable. Measure distance, area and perimeter. Adjustable units and scales, etc.


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## jar546

No reason for you to need a CAD file. A PDF will do just fine, especially if you have Adobe Acrobat Standard or Pro and not just reader.


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## Texas Wax

jar546 said:


> No reason for you to need a CAD file. A PDF will do just fine, especially if you have Adobe Acrobat Standard or Pro and not just reader.


If there is topology set to elevation in cad, there may be for the OP. 

The PDFs need to be vector based and not image based to import into cad or export to Illustrator and such....to get cad/vector lines out.


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## Chris Johnson

I have to sign releases to receive CAD files from an architect, as said, it's liability and their property. I use them to have my engineer design items, it saves me money if he can have the CAD file as less work for him. I also upload some CAD drawings to my Total Station for layout, saves me manually entering everything


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## NicParish

jar546 said:


> No reason for you to need a CAD file. A PDF will do just fine, especially if you have Adobe Acrobat Standard or Pro and not just reader.





Texas Wax said:


> If there is topology set to elevation in cad, there may be for the OP.
> 
> The PDFs need to be vector based and not image based to import into cad or export to Illustrator and such....to get cad/vector lines out.



Absolutely, CAD would definitely help. We are site prep/earthwork company. We work with elevations, drainage, sewer, utilities, curb and gutter, paving and building slabs etc. 



Chris Johnson said:


> I have to sign releases to receive CAD files from an architect, as said, it's liability and their property. I use them to have my engineer design items, it saves me money if he can have the CAD file as less work for him. I also upload some CAD drawings to my Total Station for layout, saves me manually entering everything



I don't see why they can't make it a read-only file for me?


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## blackdoghamma

I also work for an architectural firm. In addition to what Ninzan posted, there are other factors as well. We never, ever, ever give CAD files during bid process to anyone except the primary bidders (GCs, CMs). Even they must pay for complete paper sets of drawings and specs. (Usually in the $50-500 range.) Increasingly, drawings are also made available in pdf format once a project is bid. The tendency is for each sub or trade to want only the drawings that pertain to them (and not pay for anything else)...however, many times scope of work for one trade is affected by scope for other trades. If the sub cannot go get all other pertinent information, they (and therefore the Project) are at a disadvantage. So most architects insist that every bidder and sub obtain complete sets of drawings and usually a credit is applied when sets are returned by non-winning bidders.

Additionally, during submittals and shop drawings, subs will request CAD or Revit files for use in preparing shop drawings. While this certainly might make life easier for them, the intent is that each trade figure out their own scope of work and produce drawings to reflect it. there is a process of discovery that occurs when making drawings that does not occur if one is merely copying or adding text onto someone else's base drawings. The architectural and engineering drawings are frequently "conceptual", meaning that a mechanical element that appears to be in a certain location and of a certain size, is actually not. It is up to the trade in question to determine the intent of arch and engineering drawings and make a proposal for their work that coordinates with all other work. If the intent is for simple use of floor plan base files, many times the architect will provide for a lesser fee, or GC can provide pdfs to bidding subs for free.

In addition, the historical legal position is not that the Owner has possession of these drawings, but that the architect retains copyright...somewhat similar to a book author (even though someone has purchased the book, they do not have copy rights to re-use it) The architect must be compensated for any re-use of drawings.

This all seems to be in a state of flux with increasing use of digital media and web-based project management software.


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## PDArch

Would DWF work?


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