# $ for time or for job?



## bluehomes (Sep 23, 2007)

I see a lot of guys recommending bidding jobs on how long it will take and not on the job itself. This doesn't make any sense to me. If your so frigin slow that a job that would take a hardworking contractor 4 days takes you 6 do you really think you should get 50% more $:blink:


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

bluehomes said:


> I see a lot of guys recommending bidding jobs on how long it will take and not on the job itself. This doesn't make any sense to me. If your so frigin slow that a job that would take a hardworking contractor 4 days takes you 6 do you really think you should get 50% more $:blink:


Yes.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

I take my time and do it right. My refs sell my jobs so I dont usually have to sell my price.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

If the customer really thinks they have to have it "yesterday" they'll probably hire you, not me. If they want it to last longer than it takes to build it, they might be a tad more patient.
Seems to me that the ones in the biggest hurry, are the ones that haven't really thought things through, and are the biggest PITA to work with and the least likely to ever be pleased.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

You bid them at 6 days and everyday of your life is devoted to tweaking, adjusting, developing methods and system and discovering ways to allow you to complete it in 5. Every business should operate that way.


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## bluehomes (Sep 23, 2007)

look guys , I know custom work deserves custom price and HO should always pay more than GC but I see a lot of real green guys looking for bidding help on this site and for a lot of them bidding on time will put them out of sight. 
Efficiency does not mean loss of quality, it just means more cash in my pocket.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

What's wrong with a newbie bidding too high? Sure as hell beats what they do now which is offer to work for free. Who wins in that scenario? Everybody loses, including the customer.


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## bluehomes (Sep 23, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> What's wrong with a newbie bidding too high? Sure as hell beats what they do now which is offer to work for free. Who wins in that scenario? Everybody loses, including the customer.


hard to argue with that


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

bluehomes said:


> look guys , I know custom work deserves custom price and HO should always pay more than GC but I see a lot of real green guys looking for bidding help on this site and for a lot of them bidding on time will put them out of sight.
> Efficiency does not mean loss of quality, it just means more cash in my pocket.


I would bet that most of these "green" guys are only green at pricing their work, not doing it. I'm still getting dialed in on pricing jobs. That doesn't mean I don't know how to do the work, or that I'm slower than everyone else.

I think the right price for any job is the absolute highest amount you can talk the customer into paying.


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

bluehomes said:


> I see a lot of guys recommending bidding jobs on how long it will take and not on the job itself. This doesn't make any sense to me. If your so frigin slow that a job that would take a hardworking contractor 4 days takes you 6 do you really think you should get 50% more $:blink:


Nope- I think the guy who can do it in 4 hours should be charging at an hourly rate that's 50% higher. His proficiency and efficiency should command a premium. Of course, if you're a GC, you want the fast guy to do it at the slow guy's hourly rate, so you can pay less and put the difference in your pocket, right????


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

bluehomes said:


> look guys , I know custom work deserves custom price *and HO should always pay more than GC* but I see a lot of real green guys looking for bidding help on this site and for a lot of them bidding on time will put them out of sight.
> Efficiency does not mean loss of quality, it just means more cash in my pocket.


And why, exactly, should a HO pay more than a GC??? Unless you're giving me a large volume of work that's reducing my advertising costs, or you're giving me jobs without me having to competitively bid against six morons, or in some other way reducing my costs of doing business, why am I supposed to make less money doing job "A" for you than I do if I do job "A" for a homeowner????


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Well I think you answered your own question Bob. A GC pays wholesale rates instead of retail for sub contractor work for exactly the reasons you stated.

And I do agree with you - proficiency and efficiency are worth more money.


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> Well I think you answered your own question Bob. A GC pays wholesale rates instead of retail for sub contractor work for exactly the reasons you stated.


But Mike, it's not a given that these things are going to occur, yet every GC automatically assumes that the subs will give them great pricing. In your case, where I could build a relationship with you, knowing that I could do all of your tilework, for example, provided that I did quality work, and that I wouldn't have to "bid" every job, sure you'd pay less than a HO. Some of the GC's out there are pretty much one-hit wonders though, where they might send you one job a year, and even that you've got to bid against three trunk-slammers to get- those guys don't get the godd pricing regardless of how many times they say "if you give me a good price on this one, I'll give you more work than you can handle". How about you pay me well on this one, give me a whole bunch more, and then I'll give you one for free down the road? That sounds better to me.....lol.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Yes, but we still all have to get up every day and work in the real world. 

If you are coming to me looking to become a sub for us and I have no emergency going on (like all my subs left me) you're basically looking to get into the *rotation*. *The existing rotation is who you are competing with*. If they are all working with me at wholesale it doesn't make a hill of beans difference how you want to phrase your reasoning for your pricing, if you aren't at wholesale too you won't be competive to even get considered, let alone that all important first job with me. 

The theory of I'll charge you retail for the first one and then if you give me enough work I'll drop you to wholesale won't get 99% of the subs out there, their foot in the door. Not when all their peers are willing to start at wholesale in the first place.

If I had internal business pressures or an emergency then you would have some leverage, but if I'm doing my job correctly I won't be in that position when you come around looking for work.


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## Flacan (Aug 28, 2007)

Charge whatever the market will bear - that doesn't mean it's ok to rip off old people 

Who cares what the reasoning behind pricing is. 

If I stay busy being the most expensive guy in town, great.

If I'm overloaded with work because my prices are too low, I'm an idiot.


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## Paul B (Mar 10, 2007)

I am a GC. We also own a custom cabinet shop. I charge the same from the cabinet shop to myself other GC's or the HO. I'm not lowering my price to other GC's to get there work. My cabinets are worth the same no matter who there for.


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## bluehomes (Sep 23, 2007)

I generally charge GC's less for all the reasons Mike pointed out and for one more, NO BABYSITTING! or at least way less. Seems like with every homeowner if they don't expect a crash course in carpentry its only because they have a brother in-law who worked on a framing crew for 2wks 10yrs ago who loves to follow you around and inspect until a stud "accidentally" falls and smacks him in the head
I have a putting up with crap charge


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## gunther.arneson (Oct 16, 2007)

*More money for more time...*

Contractors who employ the strategy of require more money for more time may get ahead in the short run, but when word of mouth goes around or some other kick-ass guy comes rolling into town who can do the job in a jiffy will be taking all of the work!


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

bluehomes said:


> I see a lot of guys recommending bidding jobs on how long it will take and not on the job itself. This doesn't make any sense to me. If your so frigin slow that a job that would take a hardworking contractor 4 days takes you 6 do you really think you should get 50% more $:blink:


I think the point that your missing is the people are being told to charge for X amount of days but aren't told what to charge for the days.
If a person takes longer to do the same job as someone more skilled, they should not have the same day rate.
As long as people are honest with themselves and are not trying to take advantage of the customer then you will end up with three classes of bidders, 
1. lowest price bidders - quick, shoddy work, little or no customer service or warranty.

2. median price bidders - average quality work, decent customer service and warranty.

3. Top dollar bidders - custom craftsmanship, excellent customer service and warranty.

I believe in many cases the people being instructed to charge by the day are also told to charge what they are worth.

Also, this method is on suggested to them as a beginner tool until they understand bidding jobs better.


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## localtradesman (Oct 27, 2007)

*Hourly or Square Foot!!!!!!!!!!*

I work my estimates both ways....hourly and by the square foot. I really try to be FAIR with my customers. I usually get most bids....not sure if it is the price or me......but I do well. Liability has more to do with specialized trades. Thus the price is determined. Ya think???


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