# Does age really matter.



## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

I don't remember the last time I was asked for references.

btw, I'm 33 & been on my own since 26.

ray

btw, I have salt & pepper colored hair, started in my late teens....


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## Tmrrptr (Mar 22, 2007)

An important aspect of sales is to adjust your presentation to the potential client's needs and perceptions.

As described, a potential problem with age only relates to experience, and a quality portfolio with appropriate presentation should overcome that.

...If you've noticed, in some of the ludicrous markets, they use a sales team... Perhaps a pair of different appearing, and different personality salespeople that make the presentation together. If one begins to strike out, the other steps in and takes over.
Sometimes there's a basic personality clash that gets in the way of common sense and good business. Teamwork can overcome that.

If your only concern is age, take along someone a bit older and present him as your foreman or working site supervisor.
r


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## Flikka (Feb 22, 2006)

I've hired some young people to do some work in or around my home. If they haven't come recommend I want to know what their experience is. I do find you youngins very enthusiastic and will tend to hire you more often then someone who doesn't appear to love what they do. It's just something they do to make a living.

Nothing wrong with being the Doogie Howser of roofing if you've got the skills to back you up.

Cheers
Mary


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## DamionR (Jan 19, 2007)

good points here. I had the same problems when I first started face-to-face sales (at 21)... I felt a weakness in my age. As if people wouldn't feel comfortable dealing with some "kid".

Most of it is mental. Of course, you're going to have discrimination issues on so many things (as mentioned above)... but I've found all of this can be overcome by the way you present yourself, your confidence, and your conviction in the way you deliver your message.

Here;s a simple one....

"Ya know Mr Jones, I really enjoy dealing with people in your age range. You guys know what you want, and aren't afraid to make a decision to get it. People my age have a hard time making up there mind, wouldn't you agree?"


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

> "Ya know Mr Jones, I really enjoy dealing with people in your age range. You guys know what you want, and aren't afraid to make a decision to get it. People my age have a hard time making up there mind, wouldn't you agree?"


If you said that to me it would be a strike against you.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

frisco84 said:


> I am aondering if age has ever affected anybodies sales. I am 23 years old. My last estimate was for an older gentleman and when i knocked on his door he looked at me like "Where's the roofer?'. He sounded and looked uncomfortable from the door at the knowledge that I, a 23 year old, was doing his estimate.
> P.S. I haven't gotten the job yet.


When I got into roofing sales I was about the same age as youa re now and I am not much older. Yes you willg et alot of people like this.

It's easy to over come. You really MUST know what youa re talkign abotu and you MUST wow some of the people with your knowledge. You must let them know that you have experience and confidence in your ability. You will lose sales because youa re young but you will also get thrown a few bones as well.

I had an established company behind me which had recentlyc hanged owner ship and I got hired as the first salesman after the change. The company was a small subcontracting company and I took them out of the basement and into an office, as you can see age is easily overcome.

As I said age is easily overcome but you have a handicap infront of you with some customers and you are going to have to go the extra mile to wow these people. That's a good habit to get into so when you are of older and of the "Expected" roofing age, you will already have a solid worth ethic and loyal customer base.

It's a sad reality but it's true. Age-ism does exist. You'll also get it from your colleagues whoa ssume you know less than them because you were born after them. Some customers assume the same. I rememebr when I worked at the hard ware store in high school one old guy came in and when I asked if I could help him, he said "I'll wait for the old guy in the back." Then he [roceeded to ask for some simple 6-32 screws. A-hole, I don't know what a screw is because I am 16? I'm still bitter about that 13 years later. Just because he didn't know what a screw was at age 70 doesn't mean I hadn't been turning them already for 10 years myself. Yeah that's the kind of crap you'll get sometimes. Just impress the crap out of them.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

DamionR said:


> "Ya know Mr Jones, I really enjoy dealing with people in your age range. You guys know what you want, and aren't afraid to make a decision to get it. People my age have a hard time making up there mind, wouldn't you agree?"


Ehhhh no. I'm not an advocate of any sterotypical salesman BS. 


Fitting into the mold of every other person who walked into the house is a very poor way to get noticed, "wouldn't you agree?" 


Most home owners must wonder what contractor's fetishes with "wouldn't you agree" must be. Customers are much more sophisticated than they used to be. Many are educated buyers who know more about what theya re buying that the "sales" man selling it... but the sales man sure knows how NOT to take no for an answer.

Not to mention that you are dancing a fine line discussing someone's age, unelss they bring it up first. Not to mention you are insulting yourself in the very comment you are making. 

Do I talk age with my customers? Yes. Only if they bring it up first. I can care less how old they are. I only care that they have a need I can fulfill, and that they will allow me to do it my way... meaning I have to make them comfortable with who I am and my own self confidence in the products and or services I am selling. 

Sales is all about trust, not games, wouldn't you agree? 



Ask me how old I am...


Well I am 29 years old right now. I've been doing this professionally since 1998.. wow has it really been that long? You know I can remember the first roof I was on back when I was 13. 

I just turned a possible negative (my young age) into a major opportunity to prove my experience.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Once you get past the age discrimination from customers, you then get it from your fellow tradesman.

You would not belive how many other business owners that i know can't fathom that i am doing the jobs that i am doing. People just think it they could not do something at a certain age that no one can do it at that age.


Grumpy i though you were older!


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

rusk you just gotta get some street smarts, i keep tellin you. 


note - only constructive criticism/help here. but they probably see you as naive 

think bout it ---
you're doing a lot of things now (as you've said) that you've never done beofre. your subs and more experienced resources pick up on this QUICK I can almost picture you askin a bunch of technical questions to your subs this gets annoying to them after awhile


they think "how did this guy land a 200K job?" ... and then they almost kind of resent you - especially if they're twice your age and they're still sweatin everyday


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

dirt diggler said:


> rusk you just gotta get some street smarts, i keep tellin you.
> 
> 
> note - only constructive criticism/help here. but they probably see you as naive
> ...




Its not my subs. I do not ask them many technical questions. I have them do their job so i do not have to waste time learning it. I do ask some questions so i can better sell their services to future customers.

Its the other landscapers that i used to really look up to when i started in the biz.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Its not my subs. I do not ask them many technical questions. I have them do their job so i do not have to waste time learning it. I do ask some questions so i can better sell their services to future customers.
> 
> Its the other landscapers that i used to really look up to when i started in the biz.


f**k the other landscapers. your competition you mean??


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

dirt diggler said:


> f**k the other landscapers. your competition you mean??


Thats the attuitude i have had for awhile now.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

I think about this everyday...I'm also astonished by everyone's ages here! I'll be 32 next week, but cleanly shaven I look 17. I started running large projects for my company a couple years ago and You can just feel the trepidation when you meet some clients. In most case after a couple days all is well.


Nice Thread!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I wouldn't advise you to develope an attitude like that. No matter how big you think your balls are, you will get kicked in the sack one of these days. Sure it's not fun to listen to them give you crap or talk down to you, but that's life. Life is about paying your dues and people resent those that haven't seemed to have paid theirs enough. 

It's all irrelevant but unless you really think all that matters is you and your little company you're in for a big fall someday. Just let that crap attitude of theirs roll off your back, you're smart enough to know where it is coming from, just smile and go on about your business and cash a nice big fat check and keep it to yourself. They will come around. Maybe someday you will be the guy heading the landscaper meetings and helping them.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> I wouldn't advise you to develope an attitude like that. No matter how big you think your balls are, you will get kicked in the sack one of these days. Sure it's not fun to listen to them give you crap or talk down to you, but that's life. Life is about paying your dues and people resent those that haven't seemed to have paid theirs enough.
> 
> It's all irrelevant but unless you really think all that matters is you and your little company you're in for a big fall someday. Just let that crap attitude of theirs roll off your back, you're smart enough to know where it is coming from, just smile and go on about your business and cash a nice big fat check and keep it to yourself. They will come around. Maybe someday you will be the guy heading the landscaper meetings and helping them.



Mike i think you took what i said the wrong way. What i do now is just keep to my self. I do not make small talk with other guys at the supply yard or anywhere else i might run into a fellow landscaper. 

I in no way or shape act like a d#ck to them though. I just mind my own business. Other guys are constantly asking me where i am working and i just tell them 'around'. For some reason not telling them where i am working aggervates them. I stopped talking about anything work related with my friends since some of them work with other companies.

I still try to be a nice guy though. Another guy stopped by my job site a few weeks ago. He was working down the road from me on a job that i did not get. He needed a washer for a diamound blade. I happened to have one in my truck and i let him have it, even though he was working on a job i was trying to get. Now i am using that guy for some sub work.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Rusk (and Mike) i don't mean just pretend they don't exist, or be mean to them


I have two competitors that I actually GIVE work to. Actually, one of my subs is actually a competitor as well - he just doesn't work in my areas. I am good acquaintences/quasi-friends with him. good guy and i think the world of him.

so that's 3 competitors. and then I am quasi-friends with another. He is slowly going out of business, so we're becoming better friends :laughing:


and then there's a couple guys i know that work for ANOTHER competitor. I haven't given them work. Mainly cuz they're always hungover. But they've actually even taught me a couple tricks.


So that's 5 competitors that I'm quasi-friends with. The rest of em (at least the ones i see in the supply house) are workin and they're going through the same stresses I am - and some of them are pretty funny dudes!!!!





all in all - they're _people_. Think of it like this ... if they weren't competition - what would you think of them??


what the hell am i rambling about i can't even remember


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Age does make a difference. When I was in my early twenties I did alot of work for new developement builders cause they allowed me to keep busy while I was working to establish my own customer base. I noticed a trend after a few years that these guys were looking for young energetic guys. The guys who would do the best work possible to get more work. The reality of this was these builders were smart. They were getting a great job for cheap by hiring inexperienced business men. Yes you can be great as a tradesmen but business and General Contracting is another deal that takes time to evolve. I didnt have computers when I started. I used a word processer for proposals. I Wish I had a website like this to interact my every move and be advised by some pro's in all the different trades here. Instead of learning the hard way!


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Just want to throw this out there.

I am 41, I look thirty, I have a ponytail that reaches halfway down my back. My boss is in his fifties, when he goes to meet architects and clients for layout meetings, he usually has me tag along, I get introduced as the design specialist. When it comes to looking at the prints, and choosing where the pipe chases and access panels will have to be placed, my boss defers to me, if I tell an architect that his plan won't work, my boss tells the architect to work it out with me. 

The homeowner can get over age and appearance quickly with the knowledge of competence, they think architects know everything, to see an architect schooled is a real opener for them.


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## wackman (Nov 14, 2005)

I get people looking at me funny all the time. I've been building spec homes for a few years and doing a bit of remodeling. I'll be 18 in a few months.



























Just kidding, I'm 32.:w00t:


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## ODDBALLS (Jul 27, 2007)

This is a great topic. I am 27. Two kids. Two houses. Lots of toys. I fight age discrimination all of the time. I look 20. I think what has helped me is adding humor. like grumpyplumber said, and also being able to read people. Sometimes I will mention the kids and wife and that helps turn customers around. Just this week I had an older couple actually ask me " Are you sure you know how to do tile?" I am almost done, 4 days into it, and they just told me it looks good and actually apologized about questioning me. Just like everyone here has said, it's part of it, deal with it, do a good job, and let your end result do the talking. Best of luck to you and all of us young guns out there. And as a side note, thanks to all of the "old guys" out there for taking the time and having some degree of patience to deal with us about some of the tech or other questions we have. My hats of to you all and your generation. Thanks. Mad props yo.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I don't think I took it that wrong



ruskent said:


> I do not make small talk with other guys at the supply yard or anywhere else i might run into a fellow landscaper.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

ruskent said:


> Grumpy i though you were older!


I get that alot. But I too started early so I think I've accomplished alot very early as well.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

dirt diggler said:


> f**k the other landscapers. your competition you mean??


They are only your compitition when you are bidding against them. They are collegaues the rest of the time. Sure take what they say with a grain of salt/sand but at the same time you will find some willing to mentor you as I did when I first started.


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

Grumpy said:


> They are only your compitition when you are bidding against them. They are collegaues the rest of the time. Sure take what they say with a grain of salt/sand but at the same time you will find some willing to mentor you as I did when I first started.


I agree. I occasionally run into a few competitors that I have worked with at other companies prior to all of us starting our own companies. Over the years they have given me some referrals which were very profitable to me & I have given them some as well. :thumbsup:


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Relative to the comment on humor-*
*More often than not, my customers wind up hanging out while I work.*
*Some guys will see that as "staring over your shoulder", I take advantage of the company with idle chat.*
*It benefits me in at least two ways -*
*Customers tend to trust me when they can identify with me.*
*They also like me being there, I get social calls from customers often.*
*Breaking the ice as quickly as possible with humor starts things off on the right foot, as long as you avoid coming off like a pushover.*
*I will say that Killers comments are my style, I don't try to come off overpowering or "mock" professional or knowledgeable, many people will see that as being defensive.*
*In other words, just be you.*


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> I get social calls from customers often



oh i know what you mean!!!- i was feeling lonely today ... so i called up my neighborhood HVAC guy just to bs. I'm not even a client!! Actually, I've never met him before :laughing:


but i feel better now:laughing:


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Grumpy said:


> They are only your compitition when you are bidding against them. They are collegaues the rest of the time. Sure take what they say with a grain of salt/sand but at the same time you will find some willing to mentor you as I did when I first started.


see post #36 :thumbsup:


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

joasis said:


> It never hurts to build a portfolio, and have a list of references printed up. I still keep one, but I rarely pull it out unless I am showing a potential client something we have done that may fit to what they want.


Thats how I sell my jobs. I'm 24 and get the "you look really young" line all the time. I have not had one customer yet that wouldnt be a great referal, 3yrs and counting. I'll be posting a picture of a handrail I just made with my younger brother and tell me if it looks like a 24 and 21yr old built it......


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

A few weeks ago i finshed a 100g job. People lived out of the country during the duration of the job. On the last day i go to them "how old do you think i am?" They taught i was 28! I then told them i could not buy my first beer until half way through their job!


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

*I'm 50 but look younger*

I'm 50 and find that the older I get, the more people automatically believe everything I say. Age adds credibility, I really believe that people like someone who they assume is a seasoned veteran.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

L. B. Condulet said:


> I'm 50 and find that the older I get, the more people automatically believe everything I say. Age adds credibility, I really believe that people like someone who they assume is a seasoned veteran.


*Didn't wanna be the one to say it.*


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Just about every person I meet with asks me how long I have been doing this. (5 years) I asked the guy I sub from a lot if he gets asked that... guess what he said... Hmmm... I dont remeber anyone asking me that. He is older 30's... but he looks a bit older due to his receding hair line. Damn people.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

I get a kick about how people still treat me like a expert even though i am young. I have one customer who i am talking to who is in the middle of looking at new houses. Some how i am helping them decide which house to purchase.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

ruskent said:


> Some how i am helping them decide which house to purchase.


not sure if that's slight exxageration - but be careful unless you absolutely know what you're talking about.


you'd be surprised how much respect/trust/other good feelings you'll earn from them simply by saying "I don't know"


when people see you as an expert - ie, doing your job, talking about your job, etc. - you are an "expert" or "professional" - whatever



now ... let them see you what you're like when YOU are clueless or don't know something - AND admitting it ... (key phrase: "and admitting it")





bam ... you're a real person. This is power.



this builds rapport, trust, confidence and many other good vibrations


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

dirt diggler said:


> this builds rapport, trust, confidence and many other good vibrations


 
*What kinda vibrations?..:laughing:*


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *What kinda vibrations?..:laughing:*


:laughing::laughing:


sorry - you'll have to subscribe to "Dirt Diggler Weekly" to find out details:laughing::laughing:


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

dirt diggler said:


> :laughing::laughing:
> 
> 
> sorry - you'll have to subscribe to "Dirt Diggler Weekly" to find out details:laughing::laughing:


dirty weekly? I don't want to read your dirty beat sheets......


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

POOLMANinCT said:


> dirty weekly? I don't want to read your dirty beat sheets......


no worries ... at this time of year all i can say is "can we do this next year?" :laughing:


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## A.W.Davis (Oct 17, 2006)

I love being the "younger" General Contractor (I am 29)

At first I was upset about the whole age discrimination thing, then I guess I wisened up and thought why fight this issue.....youth is a great thing to have that should be enjoyed, and hell....why not make money doing it!! 

I get a lot of people who respect me as a General Contractor and my age, in fact they want to help me out in my companies success......they are very avid about spreading my name to thier friends and family, we usually get a refferal call from 90% of past clients within a month of completing a project for them. 


Its nice to read there are younger contractors here (younger than me) I commend you, we definetely have some odds against us that can definetely be overcome by preserverance, honesty,ambition and lots of Red Bull energy drinks :thumbsup:


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

dirt diggler said:


> no worries ... at this time of year all i can say is "can we do this next year?" :laughing:


*"....but, really, this has never happened before..I swear!" :laughing:*


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