# What a mess.



## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

220/221 said:


> ....if you continue to call me a hack I will start to take it personal.


To quote myself:

It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I am not your solution.


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> If I was your employee and saw you doing that, I would call you a hack also.


 
You wouldn't make it past my screening process.:laughing:




BTW...How's the view from up there?





> To quote myself:
> 
> It's not my fault, it's not my problem, I am not your solution


 
Sorry.....I don't get it. Is it something about the Indian thing?


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## GSE (Aug 24, 2007)

Speedy Petey said:


> Are you f-ing kidding me???? Are you a real contractor yourself???
> You sound like every uninformed non-tradesperson I have ever heard when pricing is the topic. They think we put that $280 right in our pockets and run down to the Lotto machine or OTB. :furious:
> 
> Do you have ANY clue what it takes to run a legitimate business? Do you know what overhead is?
> ...


Typical handyman thinking, no understanding of business or the operating or overhead costs!


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

GSE said:


> Typical handyman thinking, no understanding of business or the operating or overhead costs!


Typical ******* that don't know what he's taling about. I'm no ****ing handyman pal , i'll run circles around load mouths like you.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

nywoodwizard said:


> ......i'll run circles around load mouths like you.


I ALWAYS laugh out loud when I see things like this written on internet boards. :laughing: :laughing:


Wizard, if this gets you so upset why haven't you explained what you meant way back in post #8?


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

Speedy Petey said:


> I ALWAYS laugh out loud when I see things like this written on internet boards. :laughing: :laughing:
> 
> 
> Wizard, if this gets you so upset why haven't you explained what you meant way back in post #8?


I also enjoy the laughing part.:laughing: I'm also not upset.:no: what i see here is things being taken out of context,and too many assumptions being made, i don't think the comment needs explaining, but I'm hooked. Did you notice the word potential, thats a hypothetical comment. but as i assumed it was taken literally. That may be beside the fact, what do you think an "independent" electrician would need to run a business per year. 40-50,000 a year ? Using that figure as an example a butcher making a 100,000 a year would be bowing to the gods. Thats what it was an example. Tell me Petey what did it cost you this year, more? Just keep in mind this is a discussion over someone we don't even know, including yourself. You don't have a clue on what "this " person may be spending on his business and neither do i,and frankly i don't care.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

I understand what you are trying to say. Just go back and look at what you wrote as if someone else wrote it. See what we are getting at?
I can't see how it could be taken any other way than how we are seeing it. 
It is just strange seeing things like this coming from a legit contractor.
My comments and opinions on this are less about the actual worker described in the original post.

I'll try and let this go for now. No sense in going back and forth anymore.


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> Ask me what my gross sales are then ask me what I net in my pocket. They are two DRASTICALLY different numbers sir.


OK....I'll ask.


What are your gross sales?


What do you put in your pocket?


I'll share if you will :thumbsup:




Come on Pete. You KNOW you can be kind of a dick sometimes. I went back and read his post. It didn't seem off base to me. @ $280 for 3 hours, I'm not going to MAKE much but I aint gonna lose either.

I actually made really good money in the olden days (one man show) and would have put $250 of that $280 in my pocket. It's MUCH tougher to legitimately make a buck.

The one or two man shops can make a good living @ $70 bucks an hour and the huge shops can make really good money even at less than that. I (like you probably) am at the in between size end and have to charge more than the little guys AND the big guys.


It's Christmas time Petey, be nice for a couple weeks arty:


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

220/221 said:


> I actually made really good money in the olden days (one man show) and would have put $250 of that $280 in my pocket. It's MUCH tougher to legitimately make a buck.
> 
> The one or two man shops can make a good living @ $70 bucks an hour and the huge shops can make really good money even at less than that. I (like you probably) am at the in between size end and have to charge more than the little guys AND the big guys.


and that's a big part of the problem...too many guys who used to make really good money at those rates in the "olden days" aren't up with the times...

you're right...used to be that you would pocket $250 of that $280...nowadays, a legitimate contractor with all the required licenses, insurances, etc, will be lucky to pocket $100 of that $250...and that includes his salary and any profit.

also in the 'olden days' gas was $1/gal...milk was$1.50/gal...a new car was <$10,000 and you could buy a house for <$100,000.....

As for making money at $70/hr or not...I guess a big part of that depends on what you are paying your help...as well as your overhead...

Shoot, in my county in NJ, prevailing wage is $66....think I'll make a dime trying to bill out at $70/hr?

if I hire 3rd world refugees...or incompetent labor....for $10/hr with no benes...yeah, I can make money at $70/hr...but who really wins at that game?


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> too many guys who used to make really good money at those rates in the "olden days" aren't up with the times...


 
You are absolutely correct. That's why I stay OUT of that end of the business. Thanks BTW. I use guys like you as inspiration :notworthy


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

please explain...

both parts....


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

220/221 said:


> Come on Pete. You KNOW you can be kind of a dick sometimes.


Absolutely. But only when it is justified. arty:


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> please explain...
> 
> both parts....


 
I KNEW that didn't make sense. I'll try again.

1. My business partner tends to quote things higher than I do simply because I know I can do it in x hours (lots of experience). He knows that it will take a normal tech 2x hours. That's why I leave the estimating to him.

2. I remember giving you a hard time about your pricing quite a while ago and instead of calling me an idiot douchebag, you laid out some simple facts and helped me to learn some things. I have put some of these things into play and I am grateful for your help.


If I had some good service electricians, I am all set up and would be making a fortune right now.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

220/221 said:


> I KNEW that didn't make sense. I'll try again.
> 
> 1. My business partner tends to quote things higher than I do simply because I know I can do it in x hours (lots of experience). He knows that it will take a normal tech 2x hours. That's why I leave the estimating to him.
> 
> ...


1) that is a problem that a lot of contractors have...it's one of the reasons that most of the truly successful contractors you will ever meet, don't really know how to do the work...they aren't jaded...

2) no problem...glad to be of some service...usually i call people douchbag idiots...:laughing:


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## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

nywoodwizard said:


> Sounds like he used a little wire and a box, material cost must of been minimal. Why the "he got what he paid for"? Besides possible butchering.
> Didn't sound like that much work, he must of made 70-75 an hour for himself. A real poor mans wage you think ? Thats potentialy 140,000 a year.


Yes! Do you know anything about business expenses called overhead? Do you pay taxes? Do you have insurance, compensation? pay licences? rents/ AND ANOTHER FEW THOUSAND on other smaller expenses? Are you a labour exploiter?
I am glad someone else responded the way he should before I did!


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## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

Speedy Petey said:


> No, that's OK. I'll stick around here and read your posts. It's actually entertaining.
> a) I never said I was tough.
> b) I never said you were 16, or shivering.
> 
> ...


The hourly wage is ok - remember that he probably had to drive to another job - who pays for all the touring around a city? Everyone else goes to work once a day - we contractors go 3,5,7 times a day. He probably only got another call for one hour somewhere else, less expenses = very low day.


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## HallisseyDesign (Jul 6, 2007)

Hey so back to the op's original issues. For the wiring before you connect the lights what kind are they? Do they have a transformer on them? If so the wiring job he did will really not work if he pulled it the way I understood that. As I took it he took power for the lights off the outlets? Did he pull 5 (powers) to each light? I hope he wired it as a switch and ran the power to the switch that ran the power to the transformer then to the lights. I hope that makes sense.


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