# Heaved basement floor



## Youngndumb (Jan 22, 2013)

Working in a house complete gut job and basement floor was heaved so bad we broke everything up. were having the plumber there tomorrow to replace all cast pipes. But the floor was completely frozen underneath the slab, why did this happen and what to prevent it from happening. Would poly xps work?


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## Youngndumb (Jan 22, 2013)

Meant to type would poly and xps foam underneath work. Sorry


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## CScalf (Dec 18, 2008)

Youngndumb said:


> Working in a house complete gut job and basement floor was heaved so bad we broke everything up. were having the plumber there tomorrow to replace all cast pipes. But the floor was completely frozen underneath the slab, why did this happen and what to prevent it from happening. Would poly xps work?


There was a floor under the slab?:whistling


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## Youngndumb (Jan 22, 2013)

Ground** sorry made this on the ****ter while wife's screaming about a spider


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## CScalf (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm gonna shoot from the hip here and say the ground froze because it is winter, and cold out?


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*Slab*

In my humble opinion,yes poly and insulation will work ONLY AFTER YOU FIND A WAY TO EVACUATE THE GROUND WATER. The only way anything can freeze is if moisture is present. I would determine the source of water intrusion before i moved forward with floor replacement. I also would make sure to dry everything before pouring concrete,otherwise you will experience settling.


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## CScalf (Dec 18, 2008)

fjn said:


> In my humble opinion,yes poly and insulation will work ONLY AFTER YOU FIND A WAY TO EVACUATE THE GROUND WATER. The only way anything can freeze is if moisture is present. I would determine the source of water intrusion before i moved forward with floor replacement. I also would make sure to dry everything before pouring concrete,otherwise you will experience settling.


:thumbsup:


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Does the basement extend below the extreme frost line for your area?


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## Youngndumb (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes it's below that what boggled me although some parts of manitoba frost penetrates 8-12' we did have a major cold spell up here last few weeks


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Well since it's a complete gut, is it right to conclude that the place has been sitting vacant with no heat in it? That would certainly allow freezing to happen in areas that it never would in an occupied home.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I have no experience with freezes, however when we get slab heave in these parts it's because of expansive clay. Usually it's because of drainage problems, irrigation or plumbing leaks. My engineer told me that expansive clay can actually cause up to 15,000 lbs per s.f. of pressure. Engineers quite often require us to pre saturate our pad before a pour specifically to help prevent slab heave.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Dig deeper, or if budget allows, put electric radiant heat under it, some people been using it here for the driveways, it works great, and my HVAC guy using that around drain pipes in the attic for high efficiency furnaces. Because if the frost level reaches depths you talking about, nothing will stop concrete from heaving again, unless you use more advanced means to prevent that.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

Is this a walk out basement? How did it get so cold in there? If it is a walk out, maybe there isn't a frost wall? 
Just throwing things out there.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

got a sump pump ?


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## brick (May 8, 2012)

I agree, there's probably no perimeter drain, or if there is it's more than likely faulty. I own an old hose and use a sump pump. It does the job 4 cheap money. As you are to be pouring new crete, you could do a french drain around the inside if the perimeter to channel any potential infultration to the pump as well. There are some pretty elaborate pump systems on the market these days.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

When the weather breaks. Fix up the perimeter of the building with EPDM over 2 inch foam then gravel ontop sloped away from the house at least 6 ft into a swale. There are several forces needed to create heave so eliminate the liquid part. 

As for the basement, I dont think it would have heaved if there were 4 inches of gravel. So I would excavate a little down there,add gravel then top it with a slab.


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## Youngndumb (Jan 22, 2013)

Tinstaafl said:


> Well since it's a complete gut, is it right to conclude that the place has been sitting vacant with no heat in it? That would certainly allow freezing to happen in areas that it never would in an occupied home.


Not occupied it was owners parents when they passed they left it abandoned till this year very old


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## Youngndumb (Jan 22, 2013)

dave_dj1 said:


> Is this a walk out basement? How did it get so cold in there? If it is a walk out, maybe there isn't a frost wall?
> Just throwing things out there.


Not walk out was not occupied and sat for idk how many years


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## Youngndumb (Jan 22, 2013)

brick said:


> I agree, there's probably no perimeter drain, or if there is it's more than likely faulty. I own an old hose and use a sump pump. It does the job 4 cheap money. As you are to be pouring new crete, you could do a french drain around the inside if the perimeter to channel any potential infultration to the pump as well. There are some pretty elaborate pump systems on the market these days.


There is perimeter drain I see all location where they come into also there is no sump pump will look at all the options


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## Mellissam (Oct 27, 2009)

Isn't the house in a flood plain...never made it as far as Winnie...thank god...:laughing:
Sorry, I lived in Sask for too many years...I'd tell folks I lived in Sask., and they'd think I deserve a badge, but if I chatted with folks (like I did yesterday) from Winnie, I'd take pity on them...they deserve a medal.

If you've pulled up the whole floor, I'd try for drain tile along inside wall, exiting with a backflow preventer or sump. Like the idea of lots of gravel...now is the time to figure how deep the permafrost (soil) is...if you haven't heated things up yet.
Was the house totally shut down, no heat whatsoever? 
Hard to gauge without knowing water table depth and soil type. At least if you put in an interior drain tile, it will sort of save you from digging up the exterior drain tile. Even if a place freezes solid, it shouldn't heave the floor. Poor drainage.


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