# monster mesh and apla tech



## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi all i'm the blones based in wales in the uk. I run a firm of plasterers over here and most of our work is external rendering. We use plastering machines for this and also do inside plastering. We can spray a one coat paintable plaster onto blockwork or a 2mm gypsum plaster over board work. On boards we finish approx 70-130 mts per man per day.
Anyway we are starting to get involved in taping and have recently bought the apla tech cfs system i was wondering how you guys get on with it over there. I have the pneumatic with the coaters and find them very difficult so i have bought the box handles.and a 10 " box and the taper and a big spatula for the finish coat instead of a 12" box. What system do you guys do over here that is quick.
Also i am looking at a monster mesh taper and was wondering if they are any good and can you advance tape with them. cmon boyos gimme advice


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## dryrocker27 (Dec 2, 2007)

hello there Blones,

We are a drywall outfit, not much plastering in our area of Virginia, USA

Nobody here using the alpha tech tools, however, we are currently using all tape tech tools and find it quite abit faster that hand work.

There is a learning curve with them. Make sure the compound is not to stiff or it will really work you


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi there rob. do you actually use a monster mesh fibre glas mesh applicator and if so is it any good and can you advance the mesh tape like a bazooka


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

Hi Mate.
We use the CFS system with the boxes here in sunny Cornwall and it is awesome.Yesterday me and my mate topped off a huge 4 bed house, all the flat joints, butt joints and internals in less than 2 hrs. We have had alloy spacers made for the boxes which only allow them an inch of play, which cuts the weight down. We have the Graco G-Max 5900 HD and the 90ltr hopper. Have got the coaters but they are **** compared to the boxes. We also use Monster Mesh. When they are working, they are great, BUT, they tend to jam and both mine and my mates have screws missing and plastic bits broken off. They have only lasted about 18 months. Tapetech have stopped making them as they don't sell well in the US as they mainly paper tape there. Bought ours cheap from Masom Drywall Supply in Texas but they no longer keep them (asked last week). They are big money over here. We only paid £260 for 2 inc shipping, plus £48 vat and duty. The Monster Mesh works just like a Bazooka but with Mesh.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi tony
when you say topped off do you mean a 12" box. the boys at wetdrywall spray the last coat and flatten it with a 22" blade it looks good. do you get a good finish with the 12 box that dont flash when painted. Is the 5900 a petrol pump i just got the airlessco sl1500.
i have not done hell of a lot of tape finishing and was wondering what sort of finished mterage can be achieved in a week. 
Also what system are you using this time of year, do you have the tape applicator and are you using setting compound, if so do you put it on with a box or by hand


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

Yes, the final coat is 12" boxed. If the boarding is 'something like it' then this is a good finish. We prefer to seal our work with drywall sealer before the painter starts. That way flashing is minimized. We have seen the way Wetndrywall spray the last coat and go over it with a big 'flipper' but we weren't impressed. You may as well spray the lot if your joints are going to be 2 feet wide. The sprayed joints looked untidy too. Nice straight boxed joints, that's what we like. The 5900 is petrol. That way we know there is always enough power to run it. You can never rely on site power, and who wants to lug around a 13hp genny.We don't have a cfs taper but are going to get one soon as it is the bollocks. We have one on the mud head, one putting the tape in, then drop back to rol-plow and pick out the corners. We use Joint Filler or Easifill to 1st coat, by hand, then 10" & 12 " box. Sometimes we do 2 coats of Easifill and a 12" box. Depends how busy we are and how soon we can get back to sand, as this time of year, drying is a pain.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi tony
its good to talk to someone else about the tools and systems. i agree with what you say about sprayin the final, and it lookin scruffy, but i also see that the further out the joint is the less chance of flashin.
i admit to being a tool buff and always dive in when buyin tools is concerned hence the full pneumatic system in the garage, i just couldnt get on with the coaters, goto be honest the taper looked a real pain but i bought one and gotta be honest if you use it with noone looking and get on with it its great,you need 2 people behind you.
would you ever put fast set in a box and would it be quicker. could you bed the tape whip over with a 10 box in fast set then over with a 12. what you using for your angles.
i looked at the mark v but the boys said a 110v wont do it and i couldnt get a 240v for the same price then a 7900 but i didnt fancy noise or fumes on our bigger jobs so i went for airlessco 1500
also how little sanding does it reqire with the box finish
and also have you seen that level 5 primer sprayplast it looks real good and its not much more pricey than primer but leaves a superior finish that claims to only need 1 coat to finish


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

I only use the pnuematic apla-tech stuff for internals on smaller jobs now because it is so quick, but I fill my canon with a normal drywall pump. I use a Cinta pump which pumps 50% more mud than a standard one as it has a 6" stroke as opposed to a 4" one. My 10 gallon pump has only been used a few times, so there's £1200 worth of crap sat in my garage, (2 grand if you count the coaters). There is hardly any sanding with the box finish. The joints are dead flat, and you save on material too.Have seen some of this spray drywall on site. Looks ok but would rather have skim. It's still not a 'hard' finish. We tried Easifill through our normal 8" box, over scrim. It worked ok, but you have to be quick and set a time limit. It does use the gear up quickly though. Did the butt joints first and let them set, then straight down with the tapered edges to avoid any blending in.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi tony
you were saying you still use a cannon on smaller jobs is that because its too much hassle to get your airless pump out. Would you say your output has increasd since you got the cfs. Another question about the monster mesh. do yo have to physically engage the corner creaser by hand as oposed to a lever on a bazzoka and what is that wheel for on top its a little black wheel that lines up with the creaser.
the spray plast is not a plaster its a mixture of the 2. You need a big sprayer to apply it but it goes on after sanding and is sprayed and left. it gives you a smooth white finish or tinted if you want and is over all the wall. it compares to a skimmed finish but only requires one final coat of paint. so you can offer it instead of a sealer at a bit more money cos you are leaving the job closer to finishing


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

The airless and the hopper combined takes up quite a bit of space, and the airless itself weighs over 60kgs so is a two man operation to get it in and out of the van. Because it is so quick, on a smaller job, you would catch yourself up and end up going home early (which is all very nice), but the point of investing all that money on equipment is to see a substantial return in profits. To really benefit from this machine, you could do with a couple of thousand square metres at a time to go at, which equates to maybe 3 or 4 large houses, ready at the same time. As you probably realise, that doesn't happen. The most we have done at one time was a 750 sq mtr house, boxed and internals topped by lunchtime. 
The Monster Mesh corner bit flips over and clips in place. The white wheel is the creaser for the tape. It is a great tool for plasterers for scrimming before skimmimg. We only use it for scrim on flat joints as we paper tape internals. The other narrow metal arm that flips ove, to me, does nothing. We just keep it back out of the way all the time.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi tony,
when you say you boxed and corner by 12 do you mean 12 box the flats and the buts. when you go over the flats first of all do you use mesh or paper and if its mesh do you go over it with a 10 box and if so what position would you have that crown set for a butt, would you run down the centre of the but then go either side on the next coat. and what position do you set it for that. what about your nails maaaaan do you coat them or strike em with a knife. would you say its quicker to 1st coat by hand with a trowel or mix up fast set and go for it. We do work on bigger sites but have mostly done plastering, we even spray our skim coat and thats pretty quick. But i am looking at drywall as something i could do whilst running the rest of the firm.With plastering i am stuck there once i start a set or whatever. What sort of meterage should i be able to do a week finished ready for payment.ie i can skim about 70 mts a day by hand


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

Blones,
We final coated the butts and straight joints, and put the final coat (3 1/2" angle head) on all the internals, in a 750 sq mtr (wall and ceiling area combined) 5 bed 3 storey house, by lunchtime. We were using Gyproc Pro Mix Lite readymixed compond. We always use setting compound i.e. Joint Filler or Easifill to first coat the flats, butts and metal beads (thin coat drywall beads), by hand. You could go for it with a box, on top of the scrim but that is really a job for 2. We put the internals in with paper tape and joint cement. I think fast set is too brittle to use in internals, esp on timber framed buildings. The amount of crown really depends on the boarding. If it's good, then the joint can be dead flat. If not then use the box wide open or do it by hand. The only time our joints are more than 12" wide, is when the boarding is crap. We use a 3" nail spoter for 2nd & 3rd coats on nails. One swipe and the line of screws are done. 1st coat on nails is by hand with filler.
Did a job in Bristol a couple weeks back, in a new office block. 3 mtr high walls, only 300 sq mtrs, 2 days jointing, 1/2 day sanding, on own with monster mesh and columbia boxes ,and pneumatic canon for internals.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi tony, 
We were only doin the screws twice would you say 3 times is better. When you use a nail spotter do you mean the apla tech 3 " spotter. i used this on the last job i done but felt it may have been a little bit too much material i put on, mind you i didnt thin the mud down like they say to. So you would keep your cannon then cause i was thinking of selling that lot. I dunno if i been dreaming but i was setting myself targets of about 200mts a daythat just need sanding.Thats the sort of money i would look to earn with my plastering machines. i realise every jobs different and i dont mind doin longer days, we are used to 8-6 . So you use easy fill all year round. When you say boxing is a 2 man job with easyfil why is that.
Not to sound big headed or anything but the reason i bought these tools and made the investments was to earn the same sort of money that we are earning on the machine. ( between 3 or 6 hundred a day) i know it all depends on the job and the price you get and the hours you do, but i figure they are big investments not made by everyday tapers.and that is the sort of return to expect, the tapers down here are averaging 1000 a week by hand


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

We use normal nail spotters. Northstar & Premier. Decided this morning that the Apla-tech pneumatic set up is going on ebay. The generator wouldn't power my compressor so used mates mudrunner instead. No hassle and AS quick. Getting shot of coaters too, ****ing rubbish. On the Easifill thru boxes, if one man charges on putting it on, the other can do any touch ups and blending. All mix is used quickly and no waste. On your own, dropping back to do touch ups means gear is going off.
You could earn loads if you have the meterage ahead of you. The sky's the limit. We only seem to get between 500 & 1000 mtrs at a time on any one job. Hardly worth getting the airless out for.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi tony
i tried my original compressor on a 2.2kva genny and it didnt work but i also got a little 1.5 hp makita (one hand job very lite) that will run on a standard 2.2genny. Are the nail spotters from apla no good. I found one of those cinta pumps. When you say its not worth getting the airless out is that because its so quick? I was thinking on a 500m job would you be better of on your own, you could have your gear knocked up run all your mesh then coat it.
then with the taper run all your angle and finish em with the plough or flusher have you ever used the taper i only used it a few times and it is as quick as you can move your arms. i liked your idea using the cannon for the angles without the apla pump i would like to sell mine but am in 2 minds now you told me about the cannon for angles on smaller jobs Ps never seems to be any american help here does it


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

When Andy from Wetndrywall delivered my Apla-tech stuff he did not recommend the nail spotter, and watching the videos, you can see it puts too much gear on.

Best thing for you to do, go to UK Spreads website, Join and PM me and I will give you my no so you can give me a call. Saves all this typing.

Tony.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

banned from uk spreads there a bunch of coks on there. we were all on ebuild but defected to lordanddowning.co.uk its the bollocks. there is a chatroom aswell and all the boys on there are good laugh. one is from down your way in west country. dont know why i am banned from ukspreads cos i never posted anything on there maybe my ebuild rep proceeds me .hope to see you at lad


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

Registered with them. Waiting for confirmation email.
Had a go on the cfs taper at Wetndrywall. Going to get one next year, got 10000 mtrs coming up fast track. Hell of a tool. Can use it pneumatically too you know as long as it has the filler nozzle fitting. My Apla pump has got to go. The only thing is, I reckon it is worthless. Feel sick at paying £1200+ vat for it and giving it away. The cinta pump is great. With the high filler spout, there is less bending down. I don't see the point in getting the big machine set up for a couple hundred metres. More time spent cleaning etc than DOING.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

you should be on there soon. i was looking at the cinta on f tools. can you tell me what i need alltogether with that. Whats the 8 inch box for tony it seems mean not to have a full set. Say you were goin at a 3 bed house 400m on your own would you get the pump out then or dont you think its worth doin it on your own. Is there that much cleaning then, it only takes 10 min with a plastering machine with 40m of pipe on. i just bought the sl1500 its not too big and i would just run it from a 10 gallon bucket that aint much gear to carry. the petrol pump you got is big with the hopper.
tell me what system you would do to finish a 400m house on youre own


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

just looking on uk spreads and see that someone talked the guy out of buying my t series pump and bits. I told him that we had to charge vat and he went cold. I said leave the nailspotter and a spare cannon and when he had the rest of the mney we would send it up but he wasnt interested. I Think the coaters do work but you have to be 100% confident with them and learn them. We had allot of joints that needed no wiping atall. i noticed some people on here say they are great and others say they are crap and some use part of the kit but not all. that usually means the stuff works but you need to learn it. just like plastering machines. The problem is the wet drywall boys cant use them either so you cant see it working. If you seen it working properly on one of your own jobs you would prob keep trying but we just dont have the time. If they were no good they wouldnt be able to sell any i think. I wish i just got the junior pump at the time and a taper


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

You can use cement to put flex on, but it takes longer to dry and being a softer compound, is not as strong initially. Once the fast set has gone off, it's rock hard.
We find the pipes a nuisance too, but we insist that the houses are empty when we joint them. If they aren't, we chuck everything outside. If other trades try to come in before we are finished, I have a really loud boombox that I turn right up, blasting out hard dance music which gets rid of most people. If I turn up on a job and the house is full of crap or not ready, I get back in my van and go to another job, or go home. 
Yes, I fill my canon with the Cinta pump. My Apla-pump is redundant. I have been thinking lately though that as nobody wants to buy my Apla-pump, i may get the box filler for it and use it on jobs that aren't worth using the cfs on. Have even been thinking if not bothering with the cfs because every time it is used, there is always a blockage or the trigger jams or something stops working, and when you take into account the time wasted sorting it out, you could have done the job with the Cinta pump and the normal boxes, and not had to clean the whole lot out and given yourself a hernia loading the spray plant into the van.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hi ton.
when i first got into machine plastering i felt sometimes like chuckin it all away. but it was the days that went well that made me stick with it. I used to be up to my eyes in hardwall and some knowall would come in saying its quicker by hand. I cant speak for everyone but i found it was always down to me that these probs would happen. like blockages and etc.i bet if i knew my cfs equipment better i would not have had the prob with the valve leaking. When you look at it in principle the cfs is a good system but what happens is you fly along then hit a snag and it takes forever to fix and in the meantime everyone is wating for the machine to work so they can too.
I took my pump outa the box and got goin with it straight away and didnt have any blockages. i put this down to my experiance in knowing how to pump plasters. (prime it with wet gear first always)
I dont think that draggin the machine is a problem the sl1500 is small compared to our other machines and if you joint everyday you dont need to clean it out that often. We always use big vans like crafters and sprinters and could easily take it outa the van with one person. We also use wheelchair ramps for gettin on and off the van. I think a well shelved out van with racks for all the tools and pipes will make life easier. A van with everything squeezed in is a menace and you cant be bothered to fuk about with that. 
You have bought the stuff now tony and you need to adapt your business to use this equipment efficiently. We often run big gennys from in the van and i dont see why you couldnt run the 5900 from there on smaller jobs, i will be using readymixed gear as much as poss so i can just dump it in the bucket or hopper on jobs. you can put up to 50 m of hose on the pump easy. Using the boxes would have been a bit awkward on the job i am on and i suspect that will often be the case. i was dying to try em out but the guy i was with (rob) insisted we sprayed and i think he was right. we put one filler on and sprayed 2 on top he sprayed and i followed with a spat 10" first then 20" on the second and rob was so exited by how close to finished we got it this way he wanted to go back over his joints he had finished in the ground floor. needless to say i couldnt be bothered as there was no need, he was just exited by how quick it was and he felt the joints were better wider. This guy rob is a drywaller for the last 20 years and is very quick at his job. He would hang over 100 boards every day with just a labourer and that is 100 % true then he would tape it and his work is near perfect. My point is there is loads of potentiol for this cfs system its early days and rob recognised it straight away when usin it


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

The 5900 weighs about as much as a small elephant carrying an Indian guide and takes up a fair chunk of my VW T5. I am not the most patient person when it comes to tools not working properly, they normally end up attached to the hard end of my Estwing, or in the skip.
Obviously you do a lot larger jobs than I do. There aren't that many big commercial jobs in Cornwall with decent meterages. The ones there are, are normally done by out of county drylining companies with a readily available Eastern Europenn workforce, at rates I wouldn't get out of bed for.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

what sort of rates do these big firms get, we look for about 4 pound supply and fix. A transporter can get full pretty quick, we used to have transits and swb sprinters but quickly went to mwb sprinters because we wasted time looking for stuff under piles of shis. If i was taping all the time using the cfs i would defo use a bigger van than a t5 and set myself up some ramps so that actually using the machine was no effort at all, it makes more sense and it is a works van so it should be another tool for you.
But that 5900 is a big unit when its all set up, i went for the 1500 because of its size. If you havent got power at site you still need a genny anyway for light etc. And smaller jobs will have their own power. Another way could be with a trailer dedicated to your kit if you have room for it. We did have one and sold it because we had the bigger vans and i had knowhere to keep it. But it was brilliant for being able to get at your gear easy. I am not patient either and other people wind me up with their intolerance when things go wrong. but fuik em i do my own thing and work on it till it works and whilst some investments seem substantial you must look at them as investments and make them work otherwise you may aswell give money away. I am lookin to find the best system of taping using the cfs and once i have it i will hand it down to an apprentice etc. The equipment will bring the speed and quality and my investment will pay for itsels and more. i hope...... ps that graco mark x could be the boy to use for 2 people they say its twice the power of a mark v so two people could spray seprately


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

hey tony
just a though what you said about using your pump to fill your boxes. why not use your 5900 with the tip out,to fill them you can take it fromm room to room, but then again you may aswell spray the joints if youre gonna do that


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

Won't be changing my van for a bigger one. Bought myself a T5 Sportline last year and it's the 'dogs,' although I have considered buying one of those Ifor Williams trailers that would fit all the gear in and leave it on site, locked up. Would be like having a mini container.
I don't use my van as a tool shed. I only put in it what I need for the job I am doing. Have a large box in the back with a partition for Monster Mesh, Rol-plow, Canon, and longer tools, and everything else is in boxes and tool bags. Get most of my powders etc delivered direct to site, so I only have to carry the odd bag in the van.
To me, 20" is too wide for a finished joint. May as well spray the lot.The Mk X is probably a good machine, but you get back to power issues again.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

sport line luxury.. i'm the type of person who panicks he wont have a certain tool so i stick everthing in the van, i look at it all year and think i dont need that i dont need this, but then again i rarely do the same job day in day out when i was subbin full time. My labourer used to get pissed when i went hobbling cause i would load everything in the van and leave it for him to clean during a set of skim. lol. the good ole days.
The trailer is a good idea cause they often come with a ramp on the back and are very low down so you can roll your ear up with little effort. only thing is pikeys love em and they are easy to steel. What gear did you say you used


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

I only use british Gypsum products. Mainly Joint Filler, Easifill and Joint Cement. I tries BG Pro Mix Lite, which is ready mixed, and cheap too. It went through the machine lovely but had no guts for use on beads.
Tried Lafarge Fine Form - went on nice but was like flint to rub down, 
If you can get £4 a square for taping then you are doing well. Rates here are anywhere from £2.20 to £3.50.
I would get myself a clamp if I went down the trailer road.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

what about the stuff the wet drywall boys sell sudden bond, and the other stuff usg sheetrock, also we have using arrow joint filler. they all go through the machine nicely. Quick fire questions tony did you say you use a normal thincoat drywall bead and just fibatape the edges of them. i hate that flex its to floppy and harder to get an acurate cut. did you also say you use flex on the internal of a loft ceiling you know the 45 degree angle.
One of the boys on lord and dow website uses gps trackers very small for his machines which is a good idea i will get round to it one day its worth a look at. This rob guy i worked with wont use thin coat beads on a timber frame why wis that. we always use them when skimmin with no probs. i was using the northsta corner 3 inch and it didnt seem to apply and coat as i hoped. is this down to practice. i was lookin at the bet than ever cornr flushers and they seem less work in the 3 way corner (apla tech vocab) maaaaaan


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## Tony M (May 9, 2007)

Haven't tried any of the stuff Wetndry sell. I get BG products really cheap so stick with that. The thincoat bead we use is has a 22mm side. Most Skim beads are 25mm. Yes we just tape the sides to ensure adhesion.
I hate flex tape. When we use it, we use the BG one as it is heavier. Using it on internal off anglesmakes the angle straight and true and sharper than just paper tape. I don't like rounding 'off angles' they look better 'sharp'.
You will find the chippies moan if you round the angles they are trying to fit skirting to. I expect your mate thinks timber frames move too much to use bead. We have never had a call back.
We get on great with the Northstar corner finishers. You need to make sure that the tape is well bedded on the first coat. The rol-plow does that brilliantly. 
As far as I am concerned, the Better than Ever stuff is cheap crap. I wouldn't entertain it.


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## theblones (Dec 14, 2007)

accurate and to the point, cheers ton.


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## GeorgeBatesGB (Jul 4, 2017)

Tony M said:


> Paddyman,
> I have bought from Belmore before. They are pretty good. You could also try www.dry-lining.co.uk. They have Northstar tools at pre price increase prices. I use Columbia and Northstar mechanical tools. Both are good makes. Columbia do a cheap pump, (189 + vat from Belmore) Both companies do free carriage when you spend £100+. Tools are easy to use.


I know this an old thread but I came across it doing a Google search so there may well be people reading this thread still.

The company I work for stock a bunch of Northstar products that are very competitively priced: http://www.gypsumtools.com/brands/northstar.html maybe worth a look? :thumbsup:hope this helps


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