# outdoor recepticles?



## SK Remodeling (Feb 8, 2009)

If I want to have outdoor recepticles added at my house can I just branch off the interior recepticle on the other side of the wall and install gfi's? Also are those bubble covers mandatory now?

I appreciate any info...

Thanks


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Yes and yes.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

If your area enforces the 2008 NEC, they also need to be weather resistant.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

480sparky said:


> If your area enforces the 2008 NEC, they also need to be weather resistant.



The in-use cover needs to be weather resistant now?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Magnettica said:


> The in-use cover needs to be weather resistant now?


Yes, as well as the receps. 406.8(B)(1).


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## Static Design (Nov 30, 2008)

Install a gfci and a clear bubble cover/box.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

sk071077 said:


> If I want to have outdoor recepticles added at my house can I just branch off the interior recepticle on the other side of the wall and install gfi's? Also are those bubble covers mandatory now?
> 
> I appreciate any info...
> 
> Thanks


Your not supposed to come off the small appliance/kitchen circuits, bathroom circuits, or laundry. I got busted last week for comming through the wall from a dinning room outlet which was feed from the kitchen/small appliance. I'd probably come off these circuits if it was not being inspected.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

480sparky said:


> Yes, as well as the receps. 406.8(B)(1).



Thanks for the code reference. :thumbsup:


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

sk071077 said:


> If I want to have outdoor recepticles added at my house can I just branch off the interior recepticle on the other side of the wall and install gfi's? Also are those bubble covers mandatory now?
> 
> I appreciate any info...
> 
> Thanks


Hire an electrician, he'll know what to do.


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## SK Remodeling (Feb 8, 2009)

thanks...


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

You don't tell us where you are, but in my state we are limited to a max of 10 outlets (openings) on a circuit, so you would need to determine.

You may not extend off a kitchen, dining room, laundry room, or bathroom circuits. We use a dedicated single receptacle circuit for the furnace, which could not be extended. 

If your state has adopted the 2008 NEC you would need to insure the circuit is a minimum #12 wire and you would need to insure it was an AFCI circuit. Though AFCI is not needed outside, because you are modifying an existing circuit you would need to insure the entire circuit meets current code (at least in my jurisdiction).


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

> You may not extend off a kitchen, dining room,


I'm going to say the dining room is ok if it doesn't come off the small appliance circuits? I'm not trying to correct, just trying to learn. I have a test comming up on this stuff..


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## walkerj (May 14, 2007)

K2 said:


> I'm going to say the dining room is ok if it doesn't come off the small appliance circuits? I'm not trying to correct, just trying to learn. I have a test comming up on this stuff..


 
The dining room outlets are a part of the SABC's, whether on one of the kitchen circuits or by itself.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

thom said:


> ......If your state has adopted the 2008 NEC you would need to insure the circuit is a minimum #12 wire ......


New one on me. Where's it say that?


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

thom said:


> If your state has adopted the 2008 NEC you would need to insure the circuit is a minimum #12 wire...


Huh?


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

Funny how these threads spin out of control when all the OP guy wants to do is add a lousy receptacle so he can plug in a radio while sippin' a few cold ones..


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> Huh?


I loaned the book to my son just last week so I couldn't look that up. The 12AWG is a state code. 


*(**2)* *Section 210.19 Conductors - Minimum ampacity and size.* See this section of the NEC and add the following to subsection (A) Branch circuits not more than 600 volts. (1) General: see this section of the NEC and add: conductors for branch circuits shall be sized to prevent excessive voltage drop. Conductors of 15 ampere 120V branch circuits supplying general-purpose receptacle outlets shall be not less than 12 AWG.


We also deal with max openings per circuit

*210.11 (A) Number of branch circuits.* See this section of the NEC and add: In dwelling occupancies, circuits for general purpose receptacles shall be limited to a maximum of ten (10)current consuming outlets. Single and duplex receptacle outlets are considered to be one current consuming outlet. Exception: Circuits serving only lighting loads may be calculated per article 220 of the national electrical code.



Don't the rest of you guys deal with significant additional state codes? In addition to our state codes we get a complete book of utility codes (from the poco).


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

thom said:


> ....The 12AWG is a* state* code. ......


Whew! Glad I don't have someone invested in copper writing my codes!



thom said:


> .......*210.11 (A) Number of branch circuits.* See this section of the NEC and add: In dwelling occupancies, circuits for general purpose receptacles shall be limited to a maximum of ten (10)current consuming outlets. Single and duplex receptacle outlets are considered to be one current consuming outlet. Exception: Circuits serving only lighting loads may be calculated per article 220 of the national electrical code.....


 
Do split duplexes count as one or two?


How would you count this?










1, 2 or 3 outlets?


How 'bout :









1, 2, 3, or 4 outlets?

Or this:










1 or 3?

I shudder to think about track lighting.



thom said:


> ...............Don't the rest of you guys deal with significant additional state codes? In addition to our state codes we get a complete book of utility codes (from the poco).


Nope. We only have one. 210.8 is deleted from the '08 and replaced with the '05 language.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Magnettica said:


> Funny how these threads spin out of control when all the OP guy wants to do is add a lousy receptacle so he can plug in a radio while sippin' a few cold ones..



well, sometimes that simple change is not so simple. At least where I live, whatever we modify must meet current codes. If I add a single opening, the panel and everything down line to the opening must meet current codes. I don't need to upgrade the circuits I don't modify and I can run them into the new panel but I cannot modify anything that doesn't meet current codes. 

Either you have way easier codes and inspection processes than we do or you just ignore them.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Sparky

We could not add to or modify a circuit that contained receptacles like those shown since they don't meet current code. 

The lighting fixture would count as a single opening since it has a single connection point. Except for bathrooms (which I do as an independent circuit) I run my lighting on separate circuits and do load calculations. Of course this can get hinkey on track lights where someone may add more later.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

thom said:


> Sparky
> 
> We could not add to or modify a circuit that contained receptacles like those shown since they don't meet current code. ..


What Code don't they meet?


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

480sparky said:


> What Code don't they meet?


they don't meet the 2008 NEC which is law in my state. They are not grounding receptacles and (depending on location) they are not childproof.

Can you really install those in your jurisdiction if they are not a direct replacement?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

thom said:


> they don't meet the 2008 NEC which is law in my state. They are not grounding receptacles and (depending on location) they are not childproof.
> 
> Can you really install those in your jurisdiction if they are not a direct replacement?


Who says I'm replacing them?

And why do they have to be grounded?


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

convenience receptacles must be the grounding type except for like-kind replacements in existing systems. I can't give you the cite because I just loaned my book to my son. 

I'm certain someone can jump in here with the correct NEC cite.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

thom said:


> I'm certain someone can jump in here with the correct NEC cite.


I doubt it, because you are wrong.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

*IRC:
E3902.2 Gounding type.* Receptacles installed on 15- and 20-ampere-rated branch circuits shall be of the grounding type. 

NEC 406.3 Receptacle outlets shall be of the grounding type, be effectively grounded, and have proper polarity.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

thom said:


> I'm certain someone can jump in here with the correct NEC cite.





thom said:


> *IRC:*


*

*


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

I listed the regs out of the IRC and the NEC. Aren't you guys required to comply with both?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Technically, yeah. I was just yanking yer chain about NEC/IRC.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Tinstaafl said:


> Technically, yeah. I was just yanking yer chain about NEC/IRC.



Ok, you had me going. 

On a residence electrical, we must comply with
IRC, NEC, State additions, city additions, and Poco's code.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

thom said:


> I listed the regs out of the IRC and the NEC. Aren't you guys required to comply with both?


I only have to comply with what's adopted by the AHJs. If they don't adopt the IRC, then I pay no attention to it.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

480sparky said:


> I only have to comply with what's adopted by the AHJs. If they don't adopt the IRC, then I pay no attention to it.


Where are smoke detectors?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

K2 said:


> Where are smoke detectors?


In the smoke detector aisle.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

480sparky said:


> In the smoke detector aisle.


Is that aisle marked "NEC requirements" or "IRC requirements" ??


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

K2 said:


> Is that aisle marked "NEC requirements" or "IRC requirements" ??


Or any number of building codes. The I in IRC does not make it mandatory, any more than the N in NEC does.


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

K2 said:


> Your not supposed to come off the small appliance/kitchen circuits, bathroom circuits, or laundry. I got busted last week for comming through the wall from a dinning room outlet which was feed from the kitchen/small appliance.


FWIW, that was legal at one time. I think it was removed in '93 or '96.


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