# Commercial ice cream feezers



## ARealplumber (Aug 11, 2009)

I have a convenience store and all my coolers/freezers are on 15 amp breakers and 14 ga wire. Would you come into my store and add a breaker to my panel box for an HVAC unit and ignore all the 15 amp breakers??? Not to mention some of the coolers/freezers are wired into in the same circuit.......Will it pass inspection?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

What's wrong with 15a breakers? Why would it not pass an 'inspection'?


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## ARealplumber (Aug 11, 2009)

480sparky said:


> What's wrong with 15a breakers? Why would it not pass an 'inspection'?


You would wire a commercial building with 14 ga wire to the ice cream freezers and then plug several of them in to the same circuit and that would pass?


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## ARealplumber (Aug 11, 2009)

Why in residential do i see electricians wiring a seperate circuit for a dishwasher and a garbage disposal? Whats the wire and breaker requirement for those two appliances? Will code allow a dishwasher and a garbage disposal to be wired on the same circuit in a new home or an existing one?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ARealplumber said:


> You would wire a commercial building with 14 ga wire to the ice cream freezers and then plug several of them in to the same circuit and that would pass?



What rule says you can't?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ARealplumber said:


> Why in residential do i see electricians wiring a seperate circuit for a dishwasher and a garbage disposal? Whats the wire and breaker requirement for those two appliances? Will code allow a dishwasher and a garbage disposal to be wired on the same circuit in a new home or an existing one?


There's no Code that says one way or the other. Some electricians wire the DW and the pig just 'because', others that's the way they were taught, others as a personal preference.


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## ARealplumber (Aug 11, 2009)

480sparky said:


> There's no Code that says one way or the other. Some electricians wire the DW and the pig just 'because', others that's the way they were taught, others as a personal preference.


So the NEC approves wiring a dishwasher and a garbage disposal on the same 15 amp circuit?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ARealplumber said:


> So the NEC approves wiring a dishwasher and a garbage disposal on the same 15 amp circuit?



The NEC doesn't approve anything. It 'allows' it. But not always. It depends on the DW and pig. But they usually can.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I think what 480 is trying to say is it does not matter what size wire is ran as long as the correct size breaker is protecting that size circuit. No where does it state that you cannot operate lets say a 50 amp device on a 14ga circuit protected by a 15 amp breaker. If it operates on it fine, if it trips due to overload then you know the circuit is too small for the device.

Would i run 14ga for a freezer, personally No, i would see what the manufacturers specs and requirements are and install the required size wire and breaker for that device. As far as operating different devices on separate circuits i believe is a personal preference. Less chance of overloading and you can turn off each device separately if there is a problem.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

What I'm really saying is that, in a commercial setting, seeing 15a breakers with #14 on them would not raise any red flags. Shoot, even #14 on a 20 or even a 30 won't catch my attention.

Nor would the opposite.... Let's say a #6 on a 20a breaker. All perfectly legal.


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## ARealplumber (Aug 11, 2009)

No wonder there are so many electrical fires. My home was built in 2000 and each permanent appliance had to have its own circuit......it was required. The dishwasher,the frig,garbage disposal,jaccuzi tub,microwave,dryer,water heater,a.c.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

What does adding a breaker for [I assume] a new circuit have to do with pre-existing circuitry? What's the real point of this thread?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ARealplumber said:


> ............it was required. .........


Required by.........?


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## ARealplumber (Aug 11, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> What does adding a breaker for [I assume] a new circuit have to do with pre-existing circuitry? What's the real point of this thread?


The point of this thread is to address liability or no liability from abusiness standpoint.

If a customer called your electrical company to install a breaker in the main panel box and wire up an HVAC unit and after the course of that work the customers ice cream melted. Whos responsible for the ice cream. The elctrician says he he didn't turn the breaker off....the owner sys he did.......the electrician believes the circuit was overloaded and it tripped the breaker after he left....but he cant prove that because he was going to charge the owner to come back and check to see if that circuit is overloaded......the owner hung up on him. Is the electrician on the hook for the 500.00 worth of melted ice cream if they went to court?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ARealplumber said:


> The point of this thread is to address liability or no liability from abusiness standpoint.
> 
> If a customer called your electrical company to install a breaker in the main panel box and wire up an HVAC unit and after the course of that work the customers ice cream melted. Whos responsible for the ice cream. The elctrician says he he didn't turn the breaker off....the owner sys he did.......the electrician believes the circuit was overloaded and it tripped the breaker after he left....but he cant prove that because he was going to charge the owner to come back and check to see if that circuit is overloaded......the owner hung up on him. Is the electrician on the hook for the 500.00 worth of melted ice cream if they went to court?


There's a big difference between a breaker that tripped and a breaker that was turned off. And the difference is easy to identify.

As for whether the circuit is or isn't overloaded, why is that the responsibility of the electrician to check? Should he check every circuit in the panel?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

ARealplumber said:


> The point of this thread is to address liability or no liability from abusiness standpoint.
> 
> If a customer called your electrical company to install a breaker in the main panel box and wire up an HVAC unit and after the course of that work the customers ice cream melted. Whos responsible for the ice cream. The elctrician says he he didn't turn the breaker off....the owner sys he did.......the electrician believes the circuit was overloaded and it tripped the breaker after he left....but he cant prove that because he was going to charge the owner to come back and check to see if that circuit is overloaded......the owner hung up on him. Is the electrician on the hook for the 500.00 worth of melted ice cream if they went to court?


Now we get to the meat of this post. ARealPlumber is also ARealOwnerofa****tylittlestore. He hired an electrician to add a circuit, with the assumption that the electrician would check the current draw, wiring scheme and overall electrical safety of the entire building, all on his "add one circuit" job scope.

Now ARealPlumber is looking for us to help drag his sparky to slaughter.

Do you, ARealPluber, check out all the plumbing in a house when you change out a wax ring?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

ARealplumber said:


> The point of this thread is to address liability or no liability from abusiness standpoint.


Okay, that's better. So in essence, you are just like the HOs who get regularly shut down here when they ask for pros to back them up in a dispute with a contractor.

Tough call as to whether we should be supporting you as a fellow contractor, or the electrician who is the _real_ contractor in this particular situation.

Be that as it may, I'd guess it's a tossup who would win in court. You could hire him or some other contractor to check the situation out, and if the loads aren't excessive, you'd be more likely to prevail. If they are, he'd be right, and he had no legal responsibility to inspect and examine all of the existing circuitry.

Either way, it would probably cost both of you more money than the ice cream was worth.


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## rex (Jul 2, 2007)

this is a spill over from PZ....hahaha


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## ILPlumber (Aug 26, 2007)

Welp that didn't go according to plan.....

arealplumber = themaster on the pz

Here is the backstory.

http://www.plumbingzone.com/f2/ice-cream-incident-10057/

All 14 pages of it's glory. :blink::blink:


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

If someone turns off the main breaker to install a new circuit then one should take note of what breakers are on and off before doing so, then turn off each circuit individually and then the main. After the new circuit is installed and the main breaker gets turned on then one should turn on all the breakers one at a time to prevent such a large amp draw on the main breaker. This way you know for a fact all the breakers that are suppose to be on are indeed on.

Just turning on the main breaker and walking away without checking circuits will leave you negligent in the courts eyes. I believe others will agree here once you tamper with all the operation of all circuits "the main breaker" you become liable for all those circuits as far as being on or off.


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