# Metal barn siding on roofs?



## CScalf (Dec 18, 2008)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> What about metal shingles on a house roof:blink:


:laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

CScalf said:


> :laughing:


Now you're laughing at me

I will now grab a beer and go on a metal roof pic taking walk.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Here are some examples of metal roof in my neighborhood:whistling No R panel around here:no: some of these are 40+ years old and some are very new:blink:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Now these panels are used a lot here too. They have hidden fasteners and look good:blink: this is a new house.


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## steex (Feb 19, 2013)

I didn't even know metal shingles were a thing. I only usually do little repairs on roofs and pass big jobs onto the guys who do that kind of stuff for a living. Maybe it's because there aren't many of them in my area, or maybe it's because they don't need fixing, but I've never been on any kind of metal roof. Seems like they would be pretty slippy to walk on?


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I had Crimp 5-V put on my house. Lost my shingles to Frances and Jean.

Metal is the way to go here. After we got blasted by those hurricanes a few yrs ago people started realizing it was a better system. I've seen a huge conversion to it.

Also the reflective value/energy savings are higher than shingles. My electric bill went down slightly after roof was put in.

Most building departments will make you strip existing roof And re-nail sheeting to bring it up to code. 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but Crimp 5-V is stronger than Standing Seam.

And thanks to DWB for those pics.:thumbsup: That is a great example of metal shingles. Driving down the street you would never know.


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## TAHomeRepairs (Jun 18, 2012)

All kinds of metal on house in central Florida. Standing seam on higher end houses, 5v and ribbed is the most common. I do see a handful of tin shingles, the majority of which are 60 plus years old. And as far as 29 or 26 GA, 26 is the only one permitted on a resi roof.


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## joethepainter (Dec 1, 2012)

steex said:


> I didn't even know metal shingles were a thing. I only usually do little repairs on roofs and pass big jobs onto the guys who do that kind of stuff for a living. Maybe it's because there aren't many of them in my area, or maybe it's because they don't need fixing, but I've never been on any kind of metal roof. Seems like they would be pretty slippy to walk on?


I do a fair bit of re-paint on metal shingle roofs and they can be a bit tricky..


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## Volsburner10 (Feb 10, 2013)

donerightwyo said:


> No offense, but I just think its laziness. To spend all that money on a new roof, and not give it a poper foundation is just silly.
> 
> I will certainly pass on a roof if they don't want to strip. We have stripped every roof for nearly forty years, no reason to get lazy now.:thumbsup:


Well that is the beauty of it that is why you own your business and I own mine. I agree stripping needs to be done if the house is not level and will show the ups as downs but beside that stripping a roof is not common among roofs done here, not to say its right or wrong just the way it's done. So you keep stripping them and I'll keep not and we will be just fine. 
As far as 5 v crimp being stronger, I really don't understand what you are saying, it is a lighter gauge metal than a 24 gauge standing seam roof, it may be stiffer cause of the profile.


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## Brian Peters (Feb 2, 2011)

Is he talking of stripping as in screwing strips to the roof or as in stripping the old shingles off?


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## CScalf (Dec 18, 2008)

Volsburner10 said:


> Well that is the beauty of it that is why you own your business and I own mine. I agree stripping needs to be done if the house is not level and will show the ups as downs but beside that stripping a roof is not common among roofs done here, *not to say its right or wrong just the way it's done*. So you keep stripping them and I'll keep not and we will be just fine.
> As far as 5 v crimp being stronger, I really don't understand what you are saying, it is a lighter gauge metal than a 24 gauge standing seam roof, it may be stiffer cause of the profile.


So even if it is wrong it is ok because that's the way it is done?

but mom everyone is doing it!!!


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## Volsburner10 (Feb 10, 2013)

And who said it was wrong my manufacturer says there is nothing wrong with it. In fact that's exactly as they say to do iof there is only one roof on it. So I'll take what they tell me do and do it like that.


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## smeagol (May 13, 2008)

You using #12s?


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## smeagol (May 13, 2008)

????


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Volsburner10 said:


> And who said it was wrong my manufacturer says there is nothing wrong with it. In fact that's exactly as they say to do iof there is only one roof on it. So I'll take what they tell me do and do it like that.


You and your hackism arnt going to last to long around these parts. And just because a manufacture says its ok to do doesn't mean it is the correct way to do it. You should check into industry standards.then try to improve them.


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## Volsburner10 (Feb 10, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> You and your hackism arnt going to last to long around these parts. And just because a manufacture says its ok to do doesn't mean it is the correct way to do it. You should check into industry standards.then try to improve them.


Give me a reason it's wrong then? And the benefits of putting slats down?


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Volsburner10 said:


> Give me a reason it's wrong then? And the benefits of putting slats down?


I mean "stripping" as in removing the old shingles


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

donerightwyo said:


> I mean "stripping" as in removing the old shingles


I was just going to let it go.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

jlsconstruction said:


> I was just going to let it go.


So was I:laughing::whistling


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## Volsburner10 (Feb 10, 2013)

donerightwyo said:


> So was I:laughing::whistling


Figures cause you can't show me those industry standards where it's says to.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> Yup:thumbsup:,just maybe takes awhile to change the way we usually perceive things to be correct
> 
> Better installation info, better underlay,better screws, and even better tools to drive them accurately can make what used to be called an ''ag panel'' [for good reason] a dependable roof system for a house i suppose
> 
> Most of the metal roofs I have done have been the ss clip variety,I have done a few screw down Fabral ones but only with a full SA membrane


 Oh........ I see how it is. Now you're converted........:whistling


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

donerightwyo said:


> Very few of the manufactures profiles available to us allow only fastening on the ribs. Some people like to disregard the manufacture recommendations though:sad:



Really? Do you suppose they write the recommendations to cover their collective asses? The only warrantee is typically on color and fade, sometimes on rust, but NEVER over installs. What they recommend is based on a generic standard....and so are you a generic contractor?

Let me clear this up a little further, anyone can buy a roll former and become a manufacturer....even you. Do you think the steel mill that sells you the coils gives a damn how you screw them down? Nope. So you adopt whatever brand X tells you, since you have no way to create your own standards. 

Anything else on how we screw through the ribs?


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## hillbillyhogs (Mar 13, 2013)

stombaugh85 said:


> Lets analyze :
> 
> 
> The cheapest way= HACK


 
For YEARS and YEARS, (we've been in business for 60), Layers of shingles were laid on top of one another, Metal/Asbestos over shingles etc., why I don't know for sure, labor used to be far cheaper than it is now so you would think it would've just been removed. I still have paper work here from the 60's and 70's where it was common practice to put shingles/metal over top of existing shingles.

Do we like to do it, NO WAY do/will we do it YES! I've seen 4 layers of shingles on houses here, NO FUN AT ALL!! *NO, WE WOULD NOT AT A FIFTH LAYER TO CLARIFY!!

In years past shingle disposal was a major problem, dump was maxing out in the middle of the month, no where to get rid of old shingles!

After 60 years in business, are we hacks??? Don't think so!


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## hillbillyhogs (Mar 13, 2013)

jhark123 said:


> That crap belongs in the garbage only. Wish I had a time machine to go back and give the inventor a lobotomy.



I feel pretty strongly that vinyl siding will be all but gone in the next 15-20 years. You should see some of the older developments in our area, looks like hell!


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

BlueRidgeGreen said:


> Oh........ I see how it is. Now you're converted........:whistling


maybe more enlightened...:whistling...It's still my opinion the place for it is on the barn,but who am I to argue with the success others have had using it on the house


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## hillbillyhogs (Mar 13, 2013)

Joasis said:


> Really? Do you suppose they write the recommendations to cover their collective asses? The only warrantee is typically on color and fade, sometimes on rust, but NEVER over installs. What they recommend is based on a generic standard....and so are you a generic contractor?
> 
> Let me clear this up a little further, anyone can buy a roll former and become a manufacturer....even you. Do you think the steel mill that sells you the coils gives a damn how you screw them down? Nope. So you adopt whatever brand X tells you, since you have no way to create your own standards.
> 
> Anything else on how we screw through the ribs?


I AGREE with you about screwing through the ribs, FABRAL is big on this crap, not wanting stuff screwed through the ribs!!


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

donerightwyo said:


> One thing I would add, often times around here if you have a steel roof and it gets dented up by hail the insurance company will not pay to replace it if there is no danger of failure.
> 
> So your stuck with a dented roof. This is not always the case but is something to check on with the insurance company.


As a certified installer, we sign off on the metal roof so a customer can apply for the premium reduction, and the homeowner at that time signs the appearance waiver, or a statement that they understand and accept that if their metal roof does get dented by hail, or a tree limb, or an act of God, then the insurance company will not replace the roof unless it fails. In other words, the dents or scratches will not constitute a replacement. 

That said, again, I have installed a few hundred 26 gauge metal roofs, and have seen only a few with minor hail dents, and none that ever failed. 

So the question is this: Would you rather have a hail dented metal roof and save money, or pay more and get less? I let the customer know all the pros and cons, and still haven't had one take shingles over metal, except where a covenant dictated shingles.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

this is my shed,combination corrugated and standing seam

even the out house looks better ss


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

hillbillyhogs said:


> I AGREE with you about screwing through the ribs, FABRAL is big on this crap, not wanting stuff screwed through the ribs!!


One of the larger manufacturers in our area claims that screwing through the rib "voids" their warranty....but what they cannot say is how it will affect the color or fade. 

What they are really saying is this: They don't want to endorse or accept a practice that may cause them to be liable, because a roof would leak, or whatever. Now....it can leak when screwed as diagrammed by many, but they have an out, like a shingle maker does, by saying the installer screwed up. 

The truth is easier. Screwing thought the rib on a classic profile panel (3/4 inch raised rib) allows the screw to be out of the path of running water, allows a little tension to be applied, and better viability of a defective screw washer, under torqued, over driven, or spin out....and allows the screw to flex a slight amount....to compensate for sheet movement under heating, like the length change when in full sun. I have measured a full 3/16 inch in length change on a 30 foot sheet. When the screw rows are 3 feet apart or so, each screw can flex a little, resulting in less "egging" or tearout of the screw hole in the panel. 

The caution of course, is the installer has to be on their toes on driving screws. 

I guess the ribs is kind of "old school".....corrugated metal from the old days.....used on roofs, was always nailed on the ribs....because as grandpa said, every fool knows water runs in the valleys. :thumbsup:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Here is a screw down metal roof. How we do it. :thumbsup: This is from 2010.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

I hadn't really directed that part at you Joasis, I was more talking in general. Some guys around here just dream up any old screw pattern:thumbsup:

You seem convinced that I'm some hillbilly slack that slapped some tin on an on outhouse during summer vacation:sad: We are nowhere close to being in the same league as some of the guys that share there pictures on here, but it is far from our first rodeo.:thumbsup:

I believe that not following manufacturers recommendations is not good practice. 

I agree completely that screwing through the rib is going to offer less chance of a leak. My question is why is it not the standard? 

I am going to keep following manufactures recommendations, so if there is ever an issue it's not on me to prove it was an acceptable method.:thumbsup:


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Joasis said:


> As a certified installer, we sign off on the metal roof so a customer can apply for the premium reduction, and the homeowner at that time signs the appearance waiver, or a statement that they understand and accept that if their metal roof does get dented by hail, or a tree limb, or an act of God, then the insurance company will not replace the roof unless it fails. In other words, the dents or scratches will not constitute a replacement.
> 
> That said, again, I have installed a few hundred 26 gauge metal roofs, and have seen only a few with minor hail dents, and none that ever failed.
> 
> So the question is this: Would you rather have a hail dented metal roof and save money, or pay more and get less? I let the customer know all the pros and cons, and still haven't had one take shingles over metal, except where a covenant dictated shingles.


Certified by who? If you were certified by the manufacturer, wouldn't you be obligated to follow their recommendations?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Joasis said:


> Here is a screw down metal roof. How we do it. :thumbsup: This is from 2010.


what kind of underlayment do you use?


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

As long as your good with it, I am good with it. I don't give a lot of thought to the contractors that pick a way to do it with the adage of "that's how we have always done it" or if doing it another way was better, why doesn't everyone do it like that. 

I pointed out the fallacy of why "manufacturers specify that panels are screwed down on the flats, and why we do it differently, and that any warranty is never going to cover you....well, it is your rodeo. This is why we exchange information. 

We installed a metal roof on a home, and the home had 3 foot overhanging gables. We didn't frame it, didn't see any problems, and a 110 mph wind took 1/4 of the roof off. They made some noise about it being our fault.....but, you know where the metal was? Still attached to the roof purlins. The screws held perfectly. 

Now, you know what the manufacturer would have said? The metal roof systems they specify are only good to 80 or 85 mph winds.....not 110. They might say we didn't follow the specified pattern, and an insurance guy would only laugh. 

See what I mean? 

BTW, that is the only metal roof failure I have ever suffered.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Tom Struble said:


> what kind of underlayment do you use?



That roof got solar guard, or as some call it, double bubble. Foil side up. Another no no according to the manufacturers. We have laid tec shield foil side up and metal over also. Still good. The reason comp roofs don't get tech shield foil side up is the shingles will supposedly overheat. 

I prefer keeping the heat out of the attic myself. 

Using solar guard, we have measured attic temps of 85 degrees in July with temps outside running 100 in full sun. Metal is awesome. Another great selling point. :thumbsup:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

donerightwyo said:


> Certified by who? If you were certified by the manufacturer, wouldn't you be obligated to follow their recommendations?


Same as we are certified by the state as home builders. I am not married to a metal "manufacturer". 

I don't carry the certification any longer, but it is similar to this: 

http://www.oshba.org/html/current_certified_builders.php

Now, that said, insurance companies like something to say we are what we are, but in reality, it doesn't mean a lot. :no: The state now requires everyone to be registered and bonded. My son is, and I am not, since we only do roofs on new construction, which is excluded. 

I have not personally done a reroof in years, because when I was first doing them, there was great money in it...now that it is common place in the state, nearly every roofing company offers metal roofs. 

You do typically have to offer evidence the metal panels installed meet UL code and impact resistance, class 3.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

On the subject of metal roofs, and manufacturers, don't miss the part about what a manufacturer is, and how small a shop it can be. One system we used to do a lot of in steel buildings was with McElroy. Now they would be considered a manufacturer, but guess what? They still buy their coils of steel from the same place as Joe's Discount Metal Sales, or John Doe Standing Seam Roof Rollers, (fictitious names) and again, the companies that sell the coils, where they are US Steel, or a Mexican or Taiwan special, only warranty the color to be correct, and the finish to meet standards by testing. 

When you see a trade paper offering number 2 metal at a cheaper price, it probably has a color tint issue, or a wavy edge, or half a dozen things that make it less then premium. We have installed a lot of number 2 roof panels to save people money, and they are still good to this day. My own stuff will get number 2 any time it is available, because unless you have to match color from another coil, it is still 26 gauge, and most issues can be worked out to save 40%. 

Last thing: Very few, and I mean few, manufacturers have on site engineering, or an engineer on staff...they rely on decades old standards that didn't even describe metal panels being laid directly on decking. 

I am not hacking on anyone, but I will tell you how it is if you question why we do something based on what "others' say.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

I respect your opinion Joasis, but I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one:thumbup:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

So try to explain logically how a "manufacturer" arrives at data used to determine how they recommend screwing down a panel. I gave you my side. I am curious how your side stacks up.


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## stombaugh85 (Jul 23, 2012)

[QUOTE

Do we like to do it, NO WAY do/will we do it YES! I've seen 4 layers of shingles on houses here, NO FUN AT ALL!!
shingles!
After 60 years in business, are we hacks??? Don't think so![/QUOTE]






WoW!! Roofing over 4 layers!!!! Incredible! 

For 60 years doing that!!!WOW!! Very sad !! :thumbdown


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

stombaugh85 said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> Do we like to do it, NO WAY do/will we do it YES! I've seen 4 layers of shingles on houses here, NO FUN AT ALL!!
> shingles!
> After 60 years in business, are we hacks??? Don't think so!





I did a older smaller house a few years ago , Had 3 and 4 layers , torn off like 4 tons of shingles to put the steel on . No wonder some of the older houses have sagging roofs on them. 



WoW!! Roofing over 4 layers!!!! Incredible! 

For 60 years doing that!!!WOW!! Very sad !! :thumbdown[/QUOTE]


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## smeagol (May 13, 2008)

4 layers plus roofover is an extra 24,000 lbs on an average old house.


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## stombaugh85 (Jul 23, 2012)

smeagol said:


> 4 layers plus roofover is an extra 24,000 lbs on an average old house.


At least the house is less likely to blow away! Maybe Hillbilly Hog has a good thing going on after all. After 60 years in business! +1 for Hillbilly State!!:laughing:


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Joasis said:


> So try to explain logically how a "manufacturer" arrives at data used to determine how they recommend screwing down a panel. I gave you my side. I am curious how your side stacks up.



Every company we buy a panel from is on this list. 


http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073993611&sequence=1


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

The stuff belongs on barns only:whistling


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> The stuff belongs on barns only:whistling


:thumbup:


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## JWilliams (Nov 11, 2008)

And you belong in that barn you dirty white boy! :whistling :laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Would that barn be on the Mustang Ranch or the Moonlight Bunny Ranch:whistling


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## JWilliams (Nov 11, 2008)

no ranch of that sort. now go plow the fields boy. :clap:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

JWilliams said:


> no ranch of that sort. now go plow the fields boy. :clap:


We call Las Vegas the 9th island:thumbup:


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

donerightwyo said:


> Every company we buy a panel from is on this list.
> 
> 
> http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073993611&sequence=1



I do business with 4 of the companies on the list, and you made my case. :thumbsup:

If you are good with it, more power to you.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Joasis said:


> I do business with 4 of the companies on the list, and you made my case. :thumbsup:
> 
> If you are good with it, more power to you.


I guess you'll have to explain to me how it made your case?:blink:


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

I guess I thought I was asked to provide info that there was engineering backing having the fasteners on the flat per manufactures recommendations


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## hillbillyhogs (Mar 13, 2013)

stombaugh85 said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> Do we like to do it, NO WAY do/will we do it YES! I've seen 4 layers of shingles on houses here, NO FUN AT ALL!!
> shingles!
> After 60 years in business, are we hacks??? Don't think so!









WoW!! Roofing over 4 layers!!!! Incredible! 

For 60 years doing that!!!WOW!! Very sad !! :thumbdown[/QUOTE]


NO WAY!!! We wouldn't do that ! I was making a statement about 4 layers of roofing not that I was adding a fifth!


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## hillbillyhogs (Mar 13, 2013)

Randy Bush said:


> I did a older smaller house a few years ago , Had 3 and 4 layers , torn off like 4 tons of shingles to put the steel on . No wonder some of the older houses have sagging roofs on them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

NO WAY we would add a fifth layer!! I was just making a statement about one I had seen!


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## hillbillyhogs (Mar 13, 2013)

stombaugh85 said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> Do we like to do it, NO WAY do/will we do it YES! I've seen 4 layers of shingles on houses here, NO FUN AT ALL!!
> shingles!
> After 60 years in business, are we hacks??? Don't think so!









WoW!! Roofing over 4 layers!!!! Incredible! 

For 60 years doing that!!!WOW!! Very sad !! :thumbdown[/QUOTE]

I was referring more to the PITA it was to remove several layers of roofing, LOL


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

donerightwyo said:


> I guess I thought I was asked to provide info that there was engineering backing having the fasteners on the flat per manufactures recommendations


Did you read the disclaimer? This is a UL recommendation. Not law, not necessarily code.


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## donerightwyo (Oct 10, 2011)

Joasis said:


> Did you read the disclaimer? This is a UL recommendation. Not law, not necessarily code.


:laughing:Agree to disagree?:whistling


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## LCG (May 30, 2011)

Joasis,

I am assuming your steel roofing systems are typically installed on steel buildings?


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

LCG said:


> Joasis,
> 
> I am assuming your steel roofing systems are typically installed on steel buildings?


Why:blink:


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