# new sheet rock a little wavy



## drivewizard (Nov 21, 2005)

Sheetrockers just finished mudding/priming and texturing our new house.
I noticed on some walls when I shine a flash light down/ or up it that there are spots that are wavy or uneven. Is this normal, I don't make it a habit of going to friends houses and inspecting their walls, so I don't know. Maybe all houses have uneven walls.
If it is normal, how much of a irregularity is ok. 
Obviously if it is visible without using a light then I will make them fix.

But, should I expect all walls to be perfect? I assume not, but ???


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

drivewizard said:


> Sheetrockers just finished mudding/priming and texturing our new house.
> I noticed on some walls when I shine a flash light down/ or up it that there are spots that are wavy or uneven. Is this normal, I don't make it a habit of going to friends houses and inspecting their walls, so I don't know. Maybe all houses have uneven walls.
> If it is normal, how much of a irregularity is ok.
> Obviously if it is visible without using a light then I will make them fix.
> ...


The walls are wavy or is it the tape joints? If the entire wall is wavy sounds like the framers fault. The drywall is just fastened to the studs that are there.


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## drivewizard (Nov 21, 2005)

Guess I should have posted on the DIY forum, although I am not a diy.

Maybe mods can move. 

Sorry not familiar with this forum, usually hang at HVAC Talk.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

No need to go diy, just a little more specific on the "wavy". Wavy could mean hills and valleys in the taped joints or wavy as in a long staight wall and the studs may be bowed in and out.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

There are varying levels of quality to be expected. In a 100,000 dollar house I would expect to be able to see wall defects with a flashlight; on a 500,000 dollar house I would not expect to see them, but probably would anyway.

Regardless, if it takes a flashlight shone down the wall to see it, you will probably not be dissatisfied with the final product under normal use.

As I often have to remind architects, the sun won't shine at high noon on an interior CMU hallway, so that shadowing they see will not matter once the roof (and 2 coats of block filler and paint) is done.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Texturing should be your first clue, this is generally used to cover up a second rate job. Many 'rockers' tend to think that 'fairing out' and texturing will cover up their lack of experience. It works most of the time.

Many homes have uneven walls. That is why the price of installing anything on them is higher.

I consider anything over 1/4" unacceptable unless I do it. Then it drops to string lines and 1/8" is barely acceptable.

When the ambient lighting goes in, few will notice.

Funny that this comes up now as today I was in a 'hurricane house' that had 133 sheets of rock replaced. Not too bad, only out an inch or so in some places. Going back tomorrow, I'll take a few pics.


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## drivewizard (Nov 21, 2005)

Now that I think about it I guess it is a little of both. Studs uneven and mud seams probably not sanded good enuff.
What is considered acceptible? I know its tough to say with out seeing it. Do most houses have this issue? In a 3000 sq ft house, we have about 2-3 walls that are noticeable if you shine a bright light down wall. Only one wall on a vaulted ceiling is noticeable without light. I think I will have them repair that one. It is horizontal between the transition from 1st to 2nd floor. 
I am in Commercial/Indust HVAC so I don't see a lot of new houses.
Thanks for the input.

Damn, I type to slow!! You answered my questions while I was pecking the above. Thanks


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Document it then wait until it is complete for final judgement. Much more than that and you will get tubes of caulk half filled with piss inside your walls....


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

drive, I was thinking about your issues as I was typing. This house is block. Who set it? Is it plumb, flat? PT lath is famous for being the bottom of the barrel. Could it be the cause? None of the above. The interior finishers (sheetrockers) are responsible for providing a flat, plumb wall regardless of what they have to work with. IMHO.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I agree, Teetor. The framers/Masons may have given them dick to work with, but the rocker's job is still to provide a finished product.


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## profinish (Oct 7, 2005)

*dont shine a flashlight on it*

Maybe your are looking to hard..Has anyone else noticed it??


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

If they didn't complain about it before they started, they bought into the finished product lock, stock, and barrel.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

You guys must get better lumber than we do here in the southwest. Straight studs are difficult to find. Even so, a week later and many are bowed and twisted. Some guys use the finger joint stuff, though I haven't tried it myself. I'm guessing (though I've never checked) that not a one of my houses would pass the test of a flashlight on a wall. That would show shadows at less than a 16th, an impossible standard around here.

Teeter, you say texture is to cover flaws. We don't build smooth at all here unless it is plaster. If you didn't texture around here people would think it was unfinished.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

drivewizard said:


> Sheetrockers just finished mudding/priming and texturing our new house.
> I noticed on some walls when I shine a flash light down/ or up it that there are spots that are wavy or uneven. Is this normal, I don't make it a habit of going to friends houses and inspecting their walls, so I don't know. Maybe all houses have uneven walls.
> If it is normal, how much of a irregularity is ok.
> Obviously if it is visible without using a light then I will make them fix.
> ...


 
What is ok depends on it's cause when I look at a drywall job. If you are seeing shadows and bumps because of a poor tape and float job, I don't have much tolerance. There is no excuse for poor workmanship. If I just see some general waviness in the wall, I make a judgement on what it will look like in the normal lighting conditions of the house, and how visible a location it is in. Naturally big walls in living areas that get a lot of sunlight washing them are more critical than halls or utility rooms, as are walls that will be harshly lit from above by down lights or wall washers. Most decent framers will try to cull the really bad studs from walls, but if they cull every one that is even marginal, there would be nothing left in the package to work with.Another factor is the finish, (smooth, orange peel, knockdown, etc) and the sheen of the intended paint. "Perfection" is a false expectation. Anything you look at has a viewing angle or lighting condition that can be less than flattering, from expensive granite and marble to top end factory cabinets. I will often make a "passing grade" judgement on something that my eye detects, but I know that most people will not see, but anything that a customer points out should be addressed. These things do not go away in their mind, and everytime they walk into the room, their eyes and minds will focus on the flaw, whether real or perceived in their mind, that someone convinced them to overlook, and they will not be happy again.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

troubleseeker said:


> "Perfection" is a false expectation. Anything you look at has a viewing angle or lighting condition that can be less than flattering, from expensive granite and marble to top end factory cabinets.


For sure could have started with bad framing, but I'll adress this as if the framing was acceptable.

A smart and experienced boarder knows how to properly place butt joints (when hanging horizontally). You have to consider where windows are and where direct sunlight will be shining along a wall. Placing the butt joint on the bottom sheet as close to the window as you can (sunlight shines along a wall and not usually straight down). On the top sheets butt joints should be placed above the middle of door, closet and archway openings (easy for the tapers to hide and less to tape). Lastly as far as boarding goes, sometimes there is some guess work. In a large room that will require a few butt joints down a wall you might have to do some thinking about possible furniture placements (couches, tables etc...). You could make a wrong assumption but we aren't designers (but try to have it make a little sense).

Ok now on to taping. This is where I am responding to the perfection quote by troubleseeker. The reason I mentioned butt joints above is because they are the culprits. A real good taper can basically make an invisible smooth job of a bevel joint. A butt joint has to be built up and feathered out. A good taper can make it as smooth as glass but that area is still built up to cover the tape. I'm a good taper (and even use a 500 watt halogen light shining across my walls when I sand) to make sure they are as smooth as I can make them. They still have a very light shadow and if you run your hand across the wall you might feel a very slight difference where the feathering starts and ends on a joint (I feather my joints out about 3' at least).

So if the areas on your wall where the butt joints are, stand out like crazy, I'm guessing its bad taping (too much build up and not feathered out far enough). If you see just slight shadows I would say it's just the imperfect nature of taping butt joints, there's no way around having to build up to cover the tape. If thats the case, stop shining a flashlight down the wall :laughing: ... It's all good...

This gives me a great idea for a joke to play on my HVAC subs. Shine my 500 watt light inside they're unfinished duct work and look for light escaping at joints etc... I can just here them "What ya doing?" Answer, "Checking for possible air leaks" :laughing: !!! Hope it all works out!!! Cheers...


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> Texturing should be your first clue, this is generally used to cover up a second rate job. Many 'rockers' tend to think that 'fairing out' and texturing will cover up their lack of experience. It works most of the time.
> 
> Many homes have uneven walls. That is why the price of installing anything on them is higher.
> 
> ...


That is exactly why i don't like texture on walls. Its a way to cover up a inferior job.:clap:


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> Texturing should be your first clue, this is generally used to cover up a second rate job. Many 'rockers' tend to think that 'fairing out' and texturing will cover up their lack of experience. It works most of the time.
> 
> Many homes have uneven walls. That is why the price of installing anything on them is higher.
> 
> ...


That is exactly why i don't like texture on walls. Its a way to cover up a half ass job.:clap:


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## drivewizard (Nov 21, 2005)

theworx said:


> For sure could have started with bad framing, but I'll adress this as if the framing was acceptable.
> 
> A smart and experienced boarder knows how to properly place butt joints (when hanging horizontally). You have to consider where windows are and where direct sunlight will be shining along a wall. Placing the butt joint on the bottom sheet as close to the window as you can (sunlight shines along a wall and not usually straight down). On the top sheets butt joints should be placed above the middle of door, closet and archway openings (easy for the tapers to hide and less to tape). Lastly as far as boarding goes, sometimes there is some guess work. In a large room that will require a few butt joints down a wall you might have to do some thinking about possible furniture placements (couches, tables etc...). You could make a wrong assumption but we aren't designers (but try to have it make a little sense).
> 
> ...


:laughing: I challenge you to find any air leaks on my duct work! I duct sealed all the joints with duct sealer.
But I agree, most systems leak like a seive(splg). I did the duct work myself, first and hopefully the last time I ever have to do that.
Duct work sucks.

Anyway, I met with my builder this morning and we looked at the 2-3 spots that I was concerned about. He agreed they need to be redone.
I think one of the high spots is just where they didn't sand down enough before priming. Probably in a hurry to get on to the next job.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

I knew when I typed that comment I might get a response like: "I challenge you to find an air leak in my work"!!! I was just joking, hence the laughing symbol. I trust my subs and anyone who is a pro (unless they do obvious shotty work). Just the thought of a customer shining a light down a wall that I finished gets to me. Only because I put in the extra effort to make it as good as I can (and I'm sure you do the same). !!

Glad to hear your builder is going to fix your problem. Like you said the tapers/sanders were in a hurry to get to the next job. That's the problem with piece work. Some guys do half assed work fast to be able to move to the next half assed job they're going to do. I don't follow that policy. Someone posted earlier that there is a difference between doing work in a $100,000 house and a $500,000 house. I charge the same for the size of the job and give the best quality I can produce in both situations. In both situations the customer is paying for the work and both deserve the best quality, if you're finishing 1000 sqr feet of board or 10,000.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Wall sconces are coming on bigtime here and they will show up a bad wall any day, textured or not.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> Wall sconces are coming on bigtime here and they will show up a bad wall any day, textured or not.


You are correct. A wall sconce light will make a bad taping job jump out at you (textured or not). The better the boarding and taping, the better the finished product. You just have to hire people who take pride in their work and do the job right.


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## drivewizard (Nov 21, 2005)

Thats why I'm being a little picky on a couple walls, because of wall sconces going up there.
I know there will be wavy spots, if I really wanted to be an ass there are probably 20 spots that I found. But only 2-3 that I brought to the builders attn.
I don't think that I am being to anal, after all I am paying a little over 230K to build a 2800 sq ft house. I know that is not much, but that is just for the house. Already had well, septic, power etc. We moved out of a manuf home and are now living in our shop on site while house is being built.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

You are not being too anal at all. This is your own home and you are paying for a professional job. You should expect professional results!!!


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## eeCurtis (Nov 24, 2006)

As mentioned before, the 1st culprit may be the framing, and 2nd may be the boarding. However, we actually had a job where the board was 'wavey' near the ends. The drywall supply company paid to have it removed and reinstalled because of the bad batch. One may not have been able to tell, but the wall was a dark color.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

Curtis, on many occasions we've had bad board. We've experienced roller marks (from the manufacturing process) which needs to be floated out (extra time and mud wasted to achieve a nice finished product and that means money out of your pocket). Also, we do commercial work and mostly work with steel studs. Our biggest problem is over-compressed bevels. Not a big issue when installing on wood framing (although you tend to get a bulge around the screws). When the bevel is too hard you just constantly spin out screws and can't counter sink them. Usually have to set your gun on reverse and let the screw wobble a bit in the hole you've created and then set your gun on forward to set and countersink the screw. Again a lot of time wasted because of bad board.

We've been lucky enough to have good suppliers that actually have a rep come down and check out our problems after we call them. In most cases we get a large reimbursement on what we've paid for their product (because of the extra hassle). Not to mention usually score some nice ballcaps and shirts from them to try and keep us as customers :thumbsup: ...


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## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

thom said:


> You guys must get better lumber than we do here in the southwest. Straight studs are difficult to find. Even so, a week later and many are bowed and twisted. Some guys use the finger joint stuff, though I haven't tried it myself. I'm guessing (though I've never checked) that not a one of my houses would pass the test of a flashlight on a wall. That would show shadows at less than a 16th, an impossible standard around here.
> 
> Teeter, you say texture is to cover flaws. We don't build smooth at all here unless it is plaster. If you didn't texture around here people would think it was unfinished.[/quote
> 
> We used the finger joint studs several years ago and loved them.They were great because they were so straight. Unfortunately they disappeared from the local lumber yards inventory in a short while and I haven"t seen them since. They were not vey pretty with all the glue runs on them, and we did always have to work to convince the customer that they were better than the "normal" studs they were used to seeing, but they sure made nice walls.


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## Dwallguy (Jan 1, 2007)

*dwallguy*

I just started reading these threads and in response to your walls having waves that will be seen when you install wall sconces. 1. This is your home and you should not have any flaws in it you do not accept regaurdless of who's fault i.e. framers or drywall finishers. I do custom Drywall finish and have all my life. I am sorry to say that most of the responses about textured walls are correct.( Defect hiding) In the areas where textured walls are the standard if you look around these are normally production homes regaurdless of the cost. I started plastering with my grandfather and have since moved to drywall but I still do both. Ask your contractor about a level five finish. Do not settle 
for any flaws because they will always haunt you.


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