# Ready Mix for Tuck Pointing? (1920s House)



## lvillecards01 (Sep 2, 2012)

Looking to do some tuck pointing to my house. The house was built in 1926. the joints are a soft mortar that have a black tint to them. Is there a ready mix out there that I could work with to tuck point? I have been reading and reading and can't find a straight answer. I would like to start on this tomorrow. Any help would be appreciated.


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## NYCB (Sep 20, 2010)

Where do you live?


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## lvillecards01 (Sep 2, 2012)

Louisville


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

What kind of brick?


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## lvillecards01 (Sep 2, 2012)

Not sure. I have attached some photos for you to see. 
http://s1071.photobucket.com/albums/u503/shawnfinton/?action=view&current=3d922468.jpg


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

It is really tough to tell if you have a portland based mortar involved there or more likely a lime based mortar since the time frame would most likely indicate lime mortar.

Why the mortar type is important is pretty in depth and can sometimes be debated extensively here on CT. Basically if you have lime mortar and replace it with portland based mortar, you can literally destroy the brick over time. 

Unfortunately for you, the lime based mortars are not readily available at the big box stores and since you want to do this tomorrow, you will not be able to get lime mortar for the repair. 

The pic's are not conclusive regarding the mortar type, but your discription of "soft" leads me to believe you are dealing with lime mortar. 

I personally would not use modern Portland mortar on a brick that was originally laid with lime mortar as the results are usually destructive for the brick. 

Since it is your own house I guess you can do what you want, but realize that completing the repair improperly can cause irreversible damage to the brick. The damage is not normally obvious right away, but after a few years the brick start to fall apart and by then the damage is advanced to the point of replacement of all affected brick.


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## lvillecards01 (Sep 2, 2012)

dakzaag,

Thanks for the info. I think I will wait. I believe it is lime based as well. When I run my finger in the joints, I get a black "dust" on my fingers. I also found shells and such in the mortar joints. My neighbors house was built in the 40s and there is defiantly a difference. What are your suggestions as far a mix ratio goes and where are the places to buy? Also, there has been some tuck pointing done to the house with hard mortar and it really stands out. What type of tool do you guys use to cut that out? Thanks for the info.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

You can always tuckpoint lime over portland, just not the reverse. Those look like old St Louie commons. They are pretty hard as old brick go. Make sure if the mortar is lime mortar first, if not a Type N cementious mortar will be fine, if it is, then you will need to mix your own lime mortar or pay some serious coin for the premade stuff bought online.


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## lvillecards01 (Sep 2, 2012)

Is this the expensive pre-made you are talking about?

http://www.virginialimeworks.com/mgrepoint.html


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Ya, they have a good product that is pretty easy to use. Make sure you follow the instructions and don't let it dry out too fast. 

The other issue you have to figure out is matching the color. If you want to be really accurate, you have to try a bunch of different combinations and wait a couple of weeks to see how they cure and pick the best match.

Removing the hard mortar can be done with a hammer and chisel or grinder and diamond blade. Generally you want to remove about twice the width of the joint. 

See how fast a simple repair ends up being time consuming and expensive?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

After looking at the pictures a little more , you need to fix some issues before you bother re-pointing. Can you take a little wider area pic of the 2 that have arrows?


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## lvillecards01 (Sep 2, 2012)

Tscar,

That is the only picture I have right now. I know what you are referring to. There must have been some settling or movement. I also looks as if it has been tuck pointed with a harder mortar. I figured I could knock the top few bricks loose and relay it. The house was an estate and has been sitting for a long time without it being cared for. A lot of my issues are in areas where the downspout is missing or the gutter has been overflowing and splashing on the brick.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Tscarborough said:


> After looking at the pictures a little more , you need to fix some issues before you bother re-pointing. Can you take a little wider area pic of the 2 that have arrows?


Looks to me like that pic is from the bottom of the porch on either the left or right side. The new steps may have cause some joint cracks.


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## lvillecards01 (Sep 2, 2012)

It is on the left side by the steps


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

A simple test for lime mortar is to put a sample in vinegar and see if it fizzes up a lot compared to a cement mortar. The only problem with the older cement mortars though is that they were really lime rich so the test isn't always straightforward.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

The mortar doesnt have a black tint to it, thats just aged :laughing:

I would be surprised if it were lime. Mix in alittle black color to darken it up and repoint.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm kind of with JBM. That doesn't look like lime to me. The bricks also look like a hard wire cut red brick rather than a soft fired older brick to me. The only thing that would lead me to believe it would be lime would be that you say it's soft ( but deteriorated cement based mortar can be very soft) and that you say it has a sea shell in it. Shells were often used to make lime, but if river sand was used in the mortar shells can also be present. 

You could err on the side of caution and use a lime based mortar and it really won't hurt anything. But I certainly wouldn''t be going out of my way to use a restoration mix on that place. Best thing you could do would be to take a close up pic of an area that hasn't been touched. Somewhere protected from the elements. Or do the vinegar test as Stuart suggested.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

I agree that the brick look like a pretty hard brick, but that opinion is established with a picture, and a novice description. Not a lot to go on for giving advise. 

Then again this is the internet, if we are wrong it is only the OP who gets hurt, no skin lost here...:whistling


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## MAULEMALL (May 16, 2010)

Could be type O morter..

And I agree on the repairs....


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