# Millenial Contractors



## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Tell me if anybody else here has encountered this: 

We have a relationship with a couple of young guys who are running a GC business. One guy is the contractor and the other is a co-founder. The contractor is the CEO, the other guy is the CTO (chief technology officer).

Did some small jobs for them. Contractor guy is ok, the other guy, the CTO, is a righteous pain the ass. He is also in charge of the financial part of things....like us getting paid. 

Basically the CTO has it so that you have to go on-line to fill out about a 1/2 dozen forms, several web pages of info, just in order to bill them for whatever job you did for them. 

The other things the CTO has come up with are numerous waivers, an agreement to their terms which include: "you don't get paid unless they get paid". They also believe in retainage fees for every little dink thing that you bill them for. If you don't fill out their forms correctly, you don't get paid. 

Everything takes 6-7 emails, forms and so forth. Frankly, I cannot wait to dump these guys. Needless to say, they've made it so difficult to do business, that we aren't doing any more projects for them.

Right now, we are just trying to get paid on a $900.00 bill, a $480.00 bill ( which is now 60 days past due) and a $113.00 retainage.


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## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

I have done work for a management company that everything has to go through there web portal system. Which is not that easy to access from a mobile.
I first just raised my prices for the PITA factor, but now I just refuse to work with there system.
The way the world is turning less and less personal interaction


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Anderson said:


> I have done work for a management company that everything has to go through there web portal system. Which is not that easy to access from a mobile.
> I first just raised my prices for the PITA factor, but now I just refuse to work with there system.
> The way the world is turning less and less personal interaction


That is right. These guys are using the web portal process, which maybe makes it easier on their end, but certainly not mine. It's a simple process: I send you an invoice/bill, you pay it.


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## Barnesy (Dec 26, 2018)

Yes, just like so many things in business dealings (and consumer dealings) today. The techy millenials have gone too far into the latest technologies with their apps, software, portals, etc. They don't seem to comprehend that there are a large number of, for example, 40-65 year old people still living, working, and existing, that aren't interested in injecting "all-things-tech" into standard business protocol. There is still going to be a multi-year phase in period, in which younger people replace the older people, and during this period both sides will have to make adjustments. Just my opinion.


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## pathbuilder (Jul 22, 2017)

Agreed. Create systems that are easier on all parties, not just one side. Dozens of forms per job is silly. One agreement at the start of each year to keep the insurance company happy and to set expectations. The W9 and GL proof each year. Then each job just email the GC an invoice and get paid. 

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## MikeFL (Oct 7, 2016)

Moral of the story here is don't sign what you don't agree to.
And don't let their horrible processes get in the way of your right to file a lien on things you have not been paid for.
Your bills are due and payable. You've by now had to pay payroll, materials, taxes, etc.
You should not have to carry their company.
Let them know that what they have in place does not work for you and will not work for others as well. Tell them how long you've been in the industry and give them some examples of what you've seen. 
They are naive thinking they can use their toys to make them a success when in fact it very well may result in their demise if they don't face reality.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Your bills must have a "Due Date" on them.
Send them a bill for the interest.

I charge 2% (24% year).
Rarely have to charge it. But it drives the point home.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

We signed up with these guys at a contractor show. Things were slow, so I figured why not, we could use some extra work and especially in commercial electrical jobs. 

The fact of the matter is, these guys are the least profitable compared to all our other contractors. We make more in a week from others, than we do with these guys in an entire year. 

The feeling I am getting now is that this GC has a hard time finding subs. For obvious reasons. The CTO told me they are having problems getting paid by clients who owe them on several 100K+ jobs. What a shock :whistling

I know what I am dealing with , with these guys, and frankly, with what they owe us, I could just write it off. But I'm not. I don't care if they owe us $20, they're going to pay it. 

I was curious to see if anyone else has come across similar types of contractors who make it so difficult to get paid, that they just aren't worth it to deal with. :thumbsup:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Just found out on this site actually that I'm a millennial contractor. I get a bill Thursday morning before the office opens you get a check Friday morning. No ifs ands or buts. Never missed one.


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## Barnesy (Dec 26, 2018)

Jaws said:


> Just found out on this site actually that I'm a millennial contractor. I get a bill Thursday morning before the office opens you get a check Friday morning. No ifs ands or buts. Never missed one.


Now THAT is how business is done!


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Just found out on this site actually that I'm a millennial contractor. I get a bill Thursday morning before the office opens you get a check Friday morning. No ifs ands or buts. Never missed one.



Sorry, but you can't be a millennial contractor:whistling

You don't whine and cry enough. You don't complain that your avocado toast wasn't done just right. Or, that you're entire day is ruined cus someone looked at you crooked, or, that your safe space doesn't have milk, cookies and a puppy. :jester:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

As I've said on here before, have a good friend who is a commercial GC primarily. Straight up paper contractor, does not go to the job sites excetera. Very good money man and is an expert in contract law.

He started building higher in specs and Horseshoe Bay as a side gig since he live there and was bored because he only works like 5 hours a day, LOL, and he asked me for a couple subcontractors.

The guy is a great guy so I sent him some good Subs. Talk to my Mason a couple days later and asks if he is doing work for that guy and he said f*** no.

I said why not? He said because the guy is a f****** loser. Lol. He said that the guy wanted him to do all of the work without a deposit and he paid on the 25th of every month. Once a month. Had to get your draws in when you were supposed to Etc. The Mason told him that wasn't going to work and he told the Mason well I'm not a bank. The Mason said he leaned in and told my buddy and I'm not your f****** bank LOL.

I told the dude there's no way these Subs around here that are any good are going to accept those terms. I also told him no on any more subs he asked for. 

Before too long he started coming around and on residential projects he bitches but he pays every Friday. LOL.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

cwatbay said:


> Sorry, but you can't be a millennial contractor:whistling
> 
> You don't whine and cry enough. You don't complain that your avocado toast wasn't done just right. Or, that you're entire day is ruined cus someone looked at you crooked, or, that your safe space doesn't have milk, cookies and a puppy. :jester:



I drink gas station coffee black, drink my Bourbon and Scotch straight with no cut, get up when most people are still rolled up in their jammies with their binky, and say Merry Christmas instead of happy holidays. I think I'm probably a throwback. LOL


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Jaws said:


> I think I'm probably a throwback. LOL


Gotta go to work, but I'm going to work on that "throwback" part. :jester:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Jaws said:


> As I've said on here before, have a good friend who is a commercial GC primarily. Straight up paper contractor, does not go to the job sites excetera. Very good money man and is an expert in contract law.
> 
> He started building higher in specs and Horseshoe Bay as a side gig since he live there and was bored because he only works like 5 hours a day, LOL, and he asked me for a couple subcontractors.
> 
> ...


The same guy and I were discussing the Mason and his exchange and he asked me what my sub agreement says about payments?

I said sub agreements? And held up my right hand and said this is the Masons and my agreement. 

He said WTF are you out of your mind? Said you know how much liability you put on yourself by not having a sub agreement?

I told him that guy's dad was my grandad's Mason, he and I have worked on the same job sites our whole lives. We both know the score, and both of us are here for a long time. I'm not worried about it and neither is he.

I think a big part of it is not coming from a big city like he did, business is done a little different out here. I like it this way even if it is changing

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## LPG (Jan 19, 2017)

yep. worked for a guy like this a while back. pay apps submitted once a month, if there was an "issue" with your app, it was pushed back to next month.


Other clauses 1) Pay when paid 2) Retainage. 



If you were the sitework guy on a new construction, theyd hold your ten percent until CO. Sometimes these homes were 2-3 years plus...Id hate to be the site guy or shell guy... 





Oh yeah, and the backcharges... you may not ever see that ten percent.. 

On those multi year projects, I figure half the subs forgot about their retainage, and it wouldnt be sent unless requested through a ton of legwork and phone calls..

Always rubbed me the wrong way, but for whatever reason, the same subs who keep getting burned stay with them about 50% of the time..


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I like how it is around here.

Hey, can you do a thing for me.
Sure, I need so much down.
Where do you want to meet...

Let me know when your done and I'll clear you out before you head home.

Small towns.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Jaws said:


> The same guy and I were discussing the Mason and his exchange and he asked me what my sub agreement says about payments?
> 
> I said sub agreements? And held up my right hand and said this is the Masons and my agreement.
> 
> ...


when one's reputation gains the respect & trust of your clients, subs, inspectors, suppliers and employees life is good...:thumbsup:


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Just found out on this site actually that I'm a millennial contractor. I get a bill Thursday morning before the office opens you get a check Friday morning. No ifs ands or buts. Never missed one.


We have a phrase for it here. It's called "keeping short accounts"


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Irishslave said:


> We have a phrase for it here. It's called "keeping short accounts"


Short accounts meaning I don't owe for more than a few days? That's correct

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## skill77 (Apr 27, 2017)

"I can just used this pre mixed glue for everything right because like i dont have a drill and measuring and mixing is hard"


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## James Hale (Mar 27, 2019)

As a millennial, my position is this:

1. Yep, their processes sound absolutely useless. Overly convoluted, and unnecessary. 

2. This has nothing to do with them being millennials. 

Just because a business, whatever their age, adopts modern technology to operate, doesn't mean that if they get it wrong it's demonstrative of their entire generation. There are still plenty of businesses who don't use digital tech at all and still get things completely wrong. 

Sounds like you've had a pretty frustrating experience, I feel for you for sure, these guys will learn in the long run when they develop a reputation as a nightmare to work with. 

On the other hand though, I think there's always a risk with threads like this becoming a bit unfriendly, and turning into 'millennial-bashing', which is never positive. Tech is a great thing, and it can make life a lot easier. Millennials generally are more 'at home' with it, for sure - but doesn't mean they're all as air-headed and useless as these guys!


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## Adamthebuilder (Apr 14, 2016)

Hoardings,

You bring up some good perspective. With regards to the specific “Melenials” that are the subjects here, we have to look at the original intent for their use of technology. That seems to be to make it easier for yourself, with little or no regards to the other person. In a sense, this is a high tech version of the General or Owner, who has all sorts of excuses to either sit on the money, or wait till more comes in. Ultimately, this allows them to leverage their company overhead or lifestyle at the expense of the trades and suppliers. 

I have found paying the trades, and suppliers promptly, early and handing them a check, pays better dividends than a few dollars of interest in the bank. 

Making them jump thru hoops and beg, for something that is rightly theirs, is wrong.


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## dbbii2 (Apr 27, 2017)

So I'm working on a large project where the GC probably has 20 people in the field office. 

I turn in my paint submittal package (data sheets and SDS). Specs say I can use BM, PPG or SW. I elected to use PPG.

Anyway, they get rejected by the GC. I call and ask why. The 20ish year old field engineer says the finish schedule on the plans says the COLORS are based on SW, so that's what I have to use!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I'd use ppg all day over SW.


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## James Hale (Mar 27, 2019)

Adamthebuilder said:


> Hoardings,
> 
> You bring up some good perspective. With regards to the specific “Melenials” that are the subjects here, we have to look at the original intent for their use of technology. That seems to be to make it easier for yourself, with little or no regards to the other person. In a sense, this is a high tech version of the General or Owner, who has all sorts of excuses to either sit on the money, or wait till more comes in. Ultimately, this allows them to leverage their company overhead or lifestyle at the expense of the trades and suppliers.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more! Technology should never be used at the expense of the customer or client, it should be used to make life easier for everyone - you're right, if any digital system ends up costing time, money, or reputation, it's not worth it. I was just pointing out that this isn't specifically *because* they're millennials, they clearly just don't have their priorities straight!


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

James Hale said:


> Couldn't agree more! Technology should never be used at the expense of the customer or client, it should be used to make life easier for everyone - you're right, if any digital system ends up costing time, money, or reputation, it's not worth it. I was just pointing out that this isn't specifically *because* they're millennials, they clearly just don't have their priorities straight!


I tell you what, hoss, I'm no expert but I definitely have more trouble with Millineals than guys in the late 30s - 60. This is derived from 11 years in business and the hiring and firing of a lot of hands. 

For instance, take a 21 year old laborer and tell him to dig a Hole For A Sump pump you get a list of questions - why? Where is the mini ex? Why can't we wait until the mini ex is here? Why can't the plumber dig it?

I tell my 48 year old to do it he says yes sir and digs the hole. I was the same way when I was a laborer. 

Don't get me wrong I will show anyone the big picture but not when Im working or they are supposed to be. 

****ing with phones, not wanting to work overtime when it is necessary, not wanting to do hard physical work is common for them. Not all, my best guy is 29. But he is the exception not the rule in my experience. 


Btw I am a millineal. Turn 36 in two weeks. 

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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

dbbii2 said:


> So I'm working on a large project where the GC probably has 20 people in the field office.
> 
> I turn in my paint submittal package (data sheets and SDS). Specs say I can use BM, PPG or SW. I elected to use PPG.
> 
> Anyway, they get rejected by the GC. I call and ask why. The 20ish year old field engineer says the finish schedule on the plans says the COLORS are based on SW, so that's what I have to use!


Did you go over his head and get it resolved?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jaws said:


> I tell you what, hoss, I'm no expert but I definitely have more trouble with Millineals than guys in the late 30s - 60. This is derived from 11 years in business and the hiring and firing of a lot of hands.
> 
> *For instance, take a 21 year old laborer and tell him to dig a Hole For A Sump pump you get a list of questions - why? Where is the mini ex? Why can't we wait until the mini ex is here? Why can't the plumber dig it?*
> 
> ...


I had that same problem "back in the day".

Just saying...

And a couple times, I blew my stack and got physical. Man, did not end well.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Coming up....my only question would have been....how big do you want that hole?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I had that same problem "back in the day".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Could just be an age disparity - but in my experience over the last eighteen or nineteen years I do believe the younger guys now act more entitled than my peers did. The phone thing could be skewing my perception though. It pisses me off to no end.

I say that while I am posting on my phone sitting in my office. They can do the same when it's their name on the sign at the road and a desk. LOL

I don't need a lot of hands using subs so I hire older guys mostly 

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## James Hale (Mar 27, 2019)

Jaws said:


> I tell you what, hoss, I'm no expert but I definitely have more trouble with Millineals than guys in the late 30s - 60. This is derived from 11 years in business and the hiring and firing of a lot of hands.
> 
> For instance, take a 21 year old laborer and tell him to dig a Hole For A Sump pump you get a list of questions - why? Where is the mini ex? Why can't we wait until the mini ex is here? Why can't the plumber dig it?
> 
> ...


Fair point - I certainly can't argue with your own experiences, and I know you're far from the only person to have had that experience too! 

I think there's certainly a case to argue a generational shift in attitude and work ethic (clearly, as your own experiences demonstrate), but I think it's just important to try not to have any preconceptions - would be a shame if millennials like you and me got lumped into the same category as the guys you've described is all!

It'll be interesting to see how/if this changes moving forwards too - we always talk about millennials, but Gen Z are making their way into employment now too...


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

James Hale said:


> Fair point - I certainly can't argue with your own experiences, and I know you're far from the only person to have had that experience too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm a throw back lol

Yes I am quite aware of the Gen Zs. 

In my opinion construction will change considerably in the next 15 years, you will see less custom work and the custom work being done will be astronomical in price. I plan on my profits being astronomical for that work as well. LOL

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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Robie said:


> Coming up....my only question would have been....how big do you want that hole?


There is a pick and shovel in my truck right now. Mostly for when someone forgets to bring it but it still fits my hands lol

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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Jaws said:


> There is a pick and shovel in my truck right now. Mostly for when someone forgets to bring it but it still fits my hands lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Anymore...I'd just rather do it myself and not have to explain who/what/when/where and why...get off the phone...I don't know what time we'll be done...no, I don't think it'll rain....yada, yada, yada.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Could just be an age disparity - but in my experience over the last eighteen or nineteen years I do believe the younger guys now act more entitled than my peers did. The phone thing could be skewing my perception though. It pisses me off to no end.
> 
> I say that while I am posting on my phone sitting in my office. They can do the same when it's their name on the sign at the road and a desk. LOL
> 
> ...


The phone thing...

Yeah, a laborer I had, good guy, never gonna be more...but he's got this online marketing/talk/ BS thing going on ALL THE TIME. Got the earbuds plugged on, talking away. I get pissed because often I'm not sure he's talking to me - or one of his "people".

Technically shouldn't mean much to me - doesn't interfere with pushing broom, or hauling out trash But we reached an understanding - if he's in my space - the chatter STOPS.

PS: I tell the guy 3 things to do - he maybe would remember 2.
That's on a good day.


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

I let my guys listen to their headphones when they're doing something that doesn't require constant communication and doesn't pose a safety risk, but I tell them if I come into the room and ask something, then have to wait a second while they pause their **** and ask me what I just said, then I'll throw the damn headphones out.


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## 51carpenter (Jul 4, 2016)

Ya we usually have the radio cranked knocking out work, but when each of us is doing something different, I don’t care if you wear earphones while staining boards. 

Side note, but I find it best to have the radio up so nobody gets conversating too much, it detracts from productivity and everybody is such an ‘individual’ anymore that they can’t talk without getting offended. 

Back to the talk on my generation, I’m younger than all of the other GCs in my area, most of the ones my age that I know of washed out. I have been meeting lots of subs my age it seems, and most of them are killing it. 

One problem I see is my age group having trouble managing money. My guys have a hell of a time with it. 


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## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

As you get older you imagine your generation or yourself at that age differently than how you really were back then. We were all just the same but the details were different. Now we can say damned millenials are always on their phones, while 25 years ago guys were sneaking off to answer pagers or find pay phones.


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## jerryham2 (Mar 30, 2019)

Along the same lines how do you handle subs on final payments? Do you wait until the final inspection is complete, or do you pay them when they complete their portion of the project? I have been tossing this around for awhile.


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## Bull Trout (Dec 6, 2016)

jerryham2 said:


> Along the same lines how do you handle subs on final payments? Do you wait until the final inspection is complete, or do you pay them when they complete their portion of the project? I have been tossing this around for awhile.




Why should a sub have to wait for final inspection?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

The glossy home builders around here tend to make subs wait until closing.

No, I'm not kidding.


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## Adamthebuilder (Apr 14, 2016)

The Millenials, and how they act, are similar to how we might have acted way back then. But they are in their 20’s and 30’s and we were in our teens.


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## smpl (Mar 18, 2019)

jerryham2 said:


> Along the same lines how do you handle subs on final payments? Do you wait until the final inspection is complete, or do you pay them when they complete their portion of the project? I have been tossing this around for awhile.


Pay them when you are satisfied they have completed their portion on the job. It is your discretion to make that call if the sub has completed their job to code and to you/clients expectation. Holding money will make it hard to see them again or provide sub-par work. 

Set your standard from the start and you should never have a problem. We will backcharge any sub-trade for not cleaning up after themselves. Want to see an electrician sweep up.....


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I was 18 when I became a laborer for a very large Commercial outfit. When my boss said dig here, my only question was "how wide and how deep". I literally dug until my hands were bleeding and that's the truth. My father instilled that ethic in me at a very young age. I will say my back has always been a problem. Not because of the hard work but because as a youngster I didn't use my head when working. 




Mike.
_______________


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Just saying...


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## dbbii2 (Apr 27, 2017)

jhark123 said:


> Did you go over his head and get it resolved?


I have to explain that a) specs govern over plans and b) there's a cost. (there isn't, but I can fake it).


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## dbbii2 (Apr 27, 2017)

Bull Trout said:


> Why should a sub have to wait for final inspection?


I took this to mean final TRADE inspection.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Just saying...




Yes, if you want to badmouth the youngest generation, just remember the generation who raised them.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Just saying...


Still a choice to be a *****. No matter your circumstances 

The majority of people I meet under the age of 30 or wusses. Does not bode well for construction. LOL

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