# Racking VS Stacking...



## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

...Shingles.
What's your preferene and why? 

I rack'em.
Always have. 
Never had any problems. 

I don't like stacking them because I'm not used to it and I'm pretty much set in my ways. I don't find it to be any faster than racking them. 

What say ye?


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

you aren't supposed to rack alot of shingles.they don't even like three tabs racked


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

I've been on both types of jobs where shingles were stacked & racked. 
It always boiled down to the crew. 

We had a 50 man crew out in San Diego shingling a military base with Timberlines. They were being stacked. The weak crews had them all over the place. The good crews kept them in line. 

Same deal with a 3 tab job with 150' runs I did for a contractor in Upstate New York. But there, we racked them. We still kept them straight. 

It boils down to pesonal preference. I've just never seen a good reason to go or not go either way. 

Do you prefer stacking? Why? 

For me, I'm faster when I rack them and I have to stop less to adjust myself (hose, shingles, etc...).


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

roofwiz74 said:


> you aren't supposed to rack alot of shingles.they don't even like three tabs racked












:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## johnk (Apr 23, 2007)

Racking is alot less back and forth,back and forth.Stacking is the way I do all my shingles now.I've done both and I stack because I'm used to that method.Some people say you can see the lines in a racking pattern but Ive never noticed that in any I've done.To each their own:clap:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

It goes against installation instructions and the MSA book. Racking is not the correct way. Have replaced plenty of roofs that were racked and they were always trouble. Easy to tear off though. It's not a preference, here it's actually a code with multi-layer shingles.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

three tabs I do this way


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

I know NOTHING!


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

laminates I do this way


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

A W Smith said:


> laminates I do this way





A W Smith said:


> three tabs I do this way


That is EXACTLY the argument!!! Looks quite correct to me.


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## A W Smith (Oct 14, 2007)

I like that roof ladder.


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

was it just the roof or do you care which way?shingle left to right,or right to left.

I guess when you are good you don't need the instructions.

Love the old ridge runner.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> It goes against installation instructions and the MSA book. Racking is not the correct way. Have replaced plenty of roofs that were racked and they were always trouble. Easy to tear off though. It's not a preference, here it's actually a code with multi-layer shingles.


Page? Section?


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

2ndGen said:


> Page? Section?



MSA 8th edition, chapter 1 page 7 lower right hand corner. "vertical racking"

Check it out.:thumbsup:


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> MSA 8th edition, chapter 1 page 7 lower right hand corner. "vertical racking"
> 
> Check it out.:thumbsup:


No wonder I didn't recall seeing it...it's not in the "Landmark" application section. If that's the case, it should be noted in the Landmark section that racking is not approved. 

Do you see anything in the Landmark section that states that racking is unapproved? 

See the confusion that ommitted statement could cause? 

That wouldn't make me wrong (it's not stated in the Landmark section that racking is forbidden), nor does it make you wrong...as you were told directly (what wasn't clearly stated in a very vague statement in an unrelated section of the installation manual) by a CertainTeed Rep. 

Notice that "no" specific model is mentioned in that reference you gave me? This leaves a lot of legal elbow room for lawsuits. 

(I have the 8th Edition)

And thanks for taking the time to look it up for me. :thumbsup:


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

being the zen roofer you are,don't you bond with the bundle and read it first?do you know what the back of a landmark 40 says?a good roofer would atleast skim over the bundle directions.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

roofwiz74 said:


> being the zen roofer you are,don't you bond with the bundle and read it first?do you know what the back of a landmark 40 says?a good roofer would atleast skim over the bundle directions.


Instructions? What's that? :laughing::laughing::laughing:

Seriously though, I read the instructions yeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss ago. 
Can't say the products changed that much besides the wider nailing area
and the weight & packaging (from 3 bundles to 4/sq). Oh yeah, and the tar strips at the bottoms of the shingles!
I suggested that to them when I was in my early 20's! They probably didn't get that idea from me, but hey! I prophesized it! :thumbup:

You must be "one" with the shingle...haohmmmmmmmmmm...






:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

2ndGen said:


> Instructions? What's that? :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> 
> Seriously though, I read the instructions yeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss ago.
> Can't say the products changed that much besides the wider nailing area
> and the weight & packaging (from 3 bundles to 4/sq). Oh yeah, and the tar strips at the bottoms of the shingles!



Haha, page 8 upper left hand corner.

"Roofing material installation instructions can change frequently."




"Applicators are expected to know and use the correct procedures for each product they apply"




Not trying to sound like a smarty pants. I was just lucky to have been taught the correct way to shingle when I started, and that's not racking, it's the stair step "stepped off" diagonal method.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> Haha, page 8 upper left hand corner.
> "Roofing material installation instructions can change frequently."
> "Applicators are expected to know and use the correct procedures for each product they apply"
> Not trying to sound like a smarty pants. I was just lucky to have been taught the correct way to shingle when I started, and that's not racking, it's the stair step "stepped off" diagonal method.


Yep...like I wrote you in the other post...vague instructions completely left to our personal interpretation. It's a smart move by CertainTeed (my favorite shingle company...I install them exclusively). It puts the responsibility on the contractor (and discretion) as to what method to use. 



> "Applicators are expected to know and use the correct procedures for each product they apply"


How? If they aren't "instructed" by the "instruction" manual? 

As I stated before, no where in the manual does it say that Landmark shingles cannot be racked. This would be a slam dunk case if it went to a court of law. :thumbsup:

What would you say about the hundred or so years that shingles were racked? 

Where they wrong to install them that way then and all of a sudden in modern times, we finally got it right? 

The argument is like a gas vs diesel truck. Both do the same thing. Both have benefits and both have lackings. Ultimately, how they both function depends on the driver. Both will produce the same result. Which one is right depends on the driver's needs.

I'd rather go with the method that has a century of proven reliablity than to experiment with a method that hasn't even existed as long as the shingles that we are trying to warranty. 

As professionals, we can't place all of our trust "in" manufacturers who come up with their specs in laboratory experiments with simulated conditions, but must base our decisions on our experience. Their number one priority legally is to minimize liablity and stacking is much easier method to do for novices guaranteeing nail placement. 

I didn't use guns for 10 years after the were first becomming mainstream. I didn't (and still don't) use torch down. Torch down just didn't seem right for me (if you have to heat it extremely to lay it down, what happens in extreme cold? The opposite...and I was proven right with all the lawsuits that sprang up in the 90's). 

I'm going to post a reasonable argument for either method that is pretty much the standard consensus among the industry.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Q I’m going to shingle my new garage myself and I have a question. The directions on the shingle wrapper tell me to lay the shingles in a stairstep pattern. I’ve often seen roofers installing shingles in a straightline pattern right up to the roof peak and staggering every other row. If I use that method, will it jeopardize my shingle warranty?

A Many pros do shingle in a vertical line up the roof because it’s much faster. Known in the trade as “vertical racking” or “staggering”, this method enables the roofer to install a single column of shingles all the way to the peak, without the wasted back-and-forth motion necessary to fill several rows of stair steps. Not only that, the shingles can be piled just to the side of the column being laid. This saves a lot of time moving shingle bundles, and a lot of back strain. After completing a column, the roofer can go back down to the eave edge of the roof and start laying the next column of shingles.

Both step shingling and racking will yield a watertight roof. You won’t void your warranty by going with the racking method, but with some manufacturers, you’d have trouble collecting a settlement on two specific problems: “patterncurling” and “shadowing” (color blending).

Pattern curling is caused by the roofer having to lift the end tab of every other shingle to install the last shingle nail in the end of the next shingle (first photo). Because the bending can stress and deform shingles (especially in cold weather), the ends of those shingles may warp over time, creating a prominent pattern on the roof. If this happens, you’re out of luck collecting on a warranty if your shingle manufacturer doesn’t approve of racking.

Shadowing is the patchwork appearance caused by subtle color differences among different bundles of shingles. The problem is usually worse with racking because all the shingles from one bundle wind up in vertical rows. If the adjacent shingles come from other bundles that are a slightly different color, the roof may look patchy or even striped. The stair-step method tends to spread and mix the bundles better. Prevent shadowing by checking to make sure all the bundles have the same lot number on the wrapper, not just the same color. However, some manufacturers’ color blends are so consistent that they don’t have or need lot numbers.

Check the instructions on the shingle wrapper. Some companies make shingles that can be used with either shingling method, but they have two sets of instructions to ensure an even color pattern. If the instructions aren’t clear, call the manufacturer to find out if racking shingles is recommended or not.

http://www.rd.com/19425/article.html

This seems to be from a non-biased source (not a roofing company or a manufacturer).


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

I still pick my nose. Sometimes in Public........Wrong or Right? Acceptable or not?


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

> =MJW;399573]That's fine. You can wait and change your methods later. It has been easy for us to get some jobs by just pointing out that they were installed incorrectly the first time, and it's also easier tearing off racked shingles.


And you've never come across stacked roofs that were installed incorrectly? 

Question: 
*"When" was stacking invented?* 



> We've done it both ways. stair stepping is faster.


Define "fast"? How many squares can you install by stacking them? 



> Maybe you just didn't get good enough at it.


Well, being that the *only* thing that I do is Roofing, I'm pretty sure that I was good enough at it (especially after hundreds of squares...I was forced to do it and when given sections of tracts to do [because the PM knew I was the fastest of the bunch], I'd bring projects days ahead of schedule...a lot quicker than their regulars who only knew stacking). 



> Anyone can say anything on here, but we have worked next to 4 man crews with just two of us and they are amazed when we are finished first. These were a hard working group of 4 also, and in their early 20's. Like I said, it doesn't matter if you believe me or not. I have pointed out many things on this forum and within a few months it is normally found somewhere on the net proving my point. I won't argue if I don't know. I'll be asking questions.


Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how many squares you can lay out stacking them and your answer to my question as to "when" stacking was invented. :thumbsup:


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

A W Smith said:


> i can remember about fifteen years ago there were some new roofs i saw installed where the blending of the granules made a roof look horrible. an end of a shingle immediately adjacent to one with a completely different blend. I think what the manufacturers must have changed afterward was the method of blending color shingles because you don't see that problem anymore. There was a similar problem with the timberlines of the era. not the color blend but the lamination pattern. Roofs that I saw run straight up had lamination pattern repeats and looked terrible.
> 
> 
> does anyone remember the early laminates with the end overlaps? It was only about a quarter inch but you had to sort right hand and left hand overlap shingles.


A good way to avoid that problem is to "not" use GAF.
Using quality shingles is the first step to a good job. 
I never liked them. 
Notorious for problems.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> Quote from MSA booklet
> ""Applicators are expected to know and use the correct procedures for each product they apply".


How does one "know" what is the correct procedure it it is not clearly stated or even further, what are considered unacceptable if not clearly staed.

You're picking out these quotes, but still haven't shown us where it states that racking is prohibited as you insinuated initially (besides telling us that you were told). 






:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> Stacking was made to hide racking lines. High nails are whole different game. Also makes for a more wind proof roof. Any roofer knows that.


Ohhhh! I see now, we're supposed to believe you when you "say" something, but when I say something, it's not supposed to be believed? 

You made a hefty statement. 



> It goes against installation instructions and the MSA book. Racking is not the correct way.


Again, not doubting you were told that @ CertainTeed, but if it ain't in writing, it don't count. 

I'm sure you'll be on the horn trying to contact your local Rep, considering calling him over the next two days willing to interrupt his weekend jusssst to get him to support you on this! :laughing::laughing:

(You know what's coming now...:laughing::laughing::laughing


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Mike Kelly, MJW, good luck!!!


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

dougger222 said:


> Mike Kelly, MJW, good luck!!!


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## johnk (Apr 23, 2007)

The funny baby doing the martial arts is hiliarious!!:clap:arty::thumbup:


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

johnk said:


> The funny baby doing the martial arts is hiliarious!!:clap:arty::thumbup:


:laughing: Gotta keep it lighthearted around here John! :thumbsup:


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

you guys kill me.are you that good of roofers you can't follow directions?I'd hate to see your house or anything you put together.
products change so do application procedures.being a great contractor no matter what field is keeping currant with the products and they way they are installed.Why do you have to argue,why can't you be a professional,go read the bundle and say"you are right"f'it just to know I was doing it wrong would be enuff.I think you guys who still rack should not be allowed on the contractor site.we should make a quiz to keep out idiots.


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

i remember when elk was the only laminate and they said no racking.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

roofwiz74 said:


> i remember when elk was the only laminate and they said no racking.


Didn't GAF invent the Lam Shingle?


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

Might get hit by some irrelevant video to ignore, anyway here goes. But when a manufacturer writes on their shingle wrapper how to lay their shingles, but doesn't specifically disallow some other way, it doesn't seem to me that there is any confusion there unless you have a personally preferred method (not specifically approved by the manufacturer) that you can't/won't change and are grasping at straws to support your position. The shingle wrapper doesn't specifically tell you not to lay them upside down or sideways either, it tells you how they (the manufacturer) wants them laid so that their warranty applies.

All this boasting about 2 roofs in three days hand nailing with an old guy faster than anyone has ever done before is blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is if it ever comes back on you the manufacturer is gonna let you swing in the wind if you didn't do it the way they recommended.


Then you either re-roof it the way they recommend or you hire someone else to do it for you. All at your cost. But carry on...


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

roofwiz74 said:


> you guys kill me.are you that good of roofers you can't follow directions?I'd hate to see your house or anything you put together.
> products change so do application procedures.being a great contractor no matter what field is keeping currant with the products and they way they are installed.Why do you have to argue,why can't you be a professional,go read the bundle and say"you are right"f'it just to know I was doing it wrong would be enuff.I think you guys who still rack should not be allowed on the contractor site.we should make a quiz to keep out idiots.


Yeah, yeah, yeah...but if I didn't counter anything, how long would this thread had lasted? Look at the title? It's geared for a long exchange! :laughing::laughing::laughing: 

It's just my cabin fever! Sometimes, I say things just to keep the conversation going! :laughing:

If you notice, I never said I still racked Lams. Nor do I stack them. I stagger them (much different and taking staggering to another extreme). I don't rack Lams because if the ending shingle above the shingle that I'm nailing ends with a two layer tab, you could break the shingle in reaching underneath it to nail the first nail on the lower shingle. 

The instructions (at least for CertainTeed) only states that there must be a 3 1/2" distance between ends of shingles.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

reveivl said:


> Might get hit by some irrelevant video to ignore, anyway here goes. But when a manufacturer writes on their shingle wrapper how to lay their shingles, but doesn't specifically disallow some other way, it doesn't seem to me that there is any confusion there unless you have a personally preferred method (not specifically approved by the manufacturer) that you can't/won't change and are grasping at straws to support your position. The shingle wrapper doesn't specifically tell you not to lay them upside down or sideways either, it tells you how they (the manufacturer) wants them laid so that their warranty applies.
> All this boasting about 2 roofs in three days hand nailing with an old guy faster than anyone has ever done before is blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is if it ever comes back on you the manufacturer is gonna let you swing in the wind if you didn't do it the way they recommended.
> Then you either re-roof it the way they recommend or you hire someone else to do it for you. All at your cost. But carry on...


Regardless of your all over the place post, the facts remain the same. I'm waiting for the spec that states that racking is not an approved method. I'm not denying it, but I haven't seen it. 

Funny...none of the Roofers are arguing this. Only the JOAT's.


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

You need help.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

roofwiz74 said:


> You need help.


Me? 






:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## johnk (Apr 23, 2007)

Roofwiz has to put down other people he doesnt even know,to make himself fell better.At least we arent embarrassed of where were from


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

I'm not embaressed.me and 2nd gen have been having a private fight going on just messing around no hard feelings type stuff.
my name is Donn McCleary I live in Roellen,tn I'm married # kids,try to get by,do what I have to.what's wrong with you?


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

johnk said:


> Roofwiz has to put down other people he doesnt even know,to make himself fell better.At least we arent embarrassed of where were from


Well, he has "issues".


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

It looks terrible if you rack laminates. books or stair stepping is the way. Three tabs no problem to rack in fact it is better and faster.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I call them water troughs. Don't know what the 'written" proper term is.

I know what you mean about that picture you mentioned. I thought the same thing. It must have been really warm that day.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

RooferJim said:


> Three tabs no problem to rack in fact it is better and faster.



That's a personal opinion. It looks terrible if you ask me. When I see people doing it I think "amateur". But that's my opinion.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

RooferJim said:


> It looks terrible if you rack laminates. books or stair stepping is the way. Three tabs no problem to rack in fact it is better and faster.


Depends on the hands on the shingles.
Technique doesn't make the roof...craftsmanship does.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> When the shingles are broken from lifting them to nail the ends when racking, you won't get a claim. Don't even start in on, "I don't break the mat when I lift them". You do, trust me. We did an 6-plex last year that had Timberlines on it. They had cracks starting from top to bottom on the "racking" line. It was easy to get that job after we showed the owners how they were installed incorrectly.
> 
> As a matter of fact, it does say to install them on the roof deck. Just because it doesn't say not to, and you do it anyways, that's just plain ignorance.


Again...that GAF crap. 

Exactly "how" do you break a shingle when lifting it? 

And where's my proof that CertainTeed forbids racking for Landmarks! :laughing:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I've shown you many times in this post already 2ndgen. I really don't care if you are doing work incorrectly or not. You have no proof that it is a recommended method. I don't have to prove anything to be correct because it is written on the bags and in the MSA book showing how to install the shingles.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

In that case, you can put them upside down on the roof. It doesn't say "not" to do it.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

> =Slyfox;401056]I swear i never once ever used the word "stacking" until i posted here on this subject,


So if a term doesn't exist in "Ohio", it doesn't exist? 
Ever heard of "alligatoring" or "fishmouthing" or "telegraphing"? 

With Gutters, the pipes coming down from the gutter are technically called "downspouts", but we ('round deez here parts) call them "leaders". 



> :blink:"2ndGen is a bad influence":blink:


:laughing::laughing::laughing:



> I saw a picture here in this forum once were a guy was lifting a laminate up at the lower left corner so he could show a pic of the flashing work underneath at the eave and thought "wow" that lower part of the shingle is going to curl up and look horrible in a few years after he bent it up like that, but i didn't reply to him about it because i didn't know how to say it with out seeming rude so i just left it alone.


What would make that particular shingle act differently from the others? Once that sun heats it, it seals back down (unless forcefully pulled up by winds or by hand). 



> But i guess i mentioned that now because that could fall into the catagory of causing cracks in the laminates when lifting them to high or in cooler weather to get that nail underneath.


Technically, shingles shouldn't be installed in weather so cold that they become brittle. I generally don't work below 50 degrees. The ARMA suggests they not be installed below 40 degrees. 

_"The Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Association (ARMA) says shingles become less flexible at temperatures lower than 40 F and more prone to cracking during installation." _

http://www.professionalroofing.net/article.aspx?A_ID=1206



> I call the water cuts in the 3-tabs "bondlines", whats the proper term?


Good question. I've heard cutouts, keys (though I don't know why), slots, but generally, cutouts are the accepted term. 

I'm interested in hearing what other terms might exist throughout other parts of the country.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> That's a personal opinion. It looks terrible if you ask me. When I see people doing it I think "amateur". But that's my opinion.


Well, coming from a "general" contractor who does a little bit of everything instead of being a "specialist" in one field, 
not too concerning for Roofers. 

How something that's been practiced successfully for a century can be called "amateur" is beyond me. 

It's a good thing "general" contractors don't define for Roofers "what's" the right way. 

But hey! That's just my "professional" opinion! :thumbsup:

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> I've shown you many times in this post already 2ndgen. I really don't care if you are doing work incorrectly or not. You have no proof that it is a recommended method. I don't have to prove anything to be correct because it is written on the bags and in the MSA book showing how to install the shingles.


Negative! You've shown me nothing! Still waiting for it! :laughing:
Either that, or an admission that you were wrong to state that CertainTeed will "not" honor their warranty if a Landmark roof is racked. 

And I never, I repeat..."never", stated that it was the "recommended" method. Don't put words in my mouth. :shutup: 
I simply said that I've never heard it to officially be forbidden by CertainTeed in writing.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> In that case, you can put them upside down on the roof. It doesn't say "not" to do it.


But installing them upside down hasn't been done for a hundred years.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

You only have one point, and that it doesn't say "NOT" to rack them.

In this state of MN we have to be licensed to do any work. I am licensed as a General Contractor, so that is what I wrote. You are border line on a personal attack.


Bring it to the attention of your rep and you will find out the truth.


Why would a shingle act differently after being lifted you say????? You need to go back and learn about the layers of shingles, different mats, and what fiberglass is......think about it........and then re-word what you wrote. I can't believe that was said by a roofer.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

> =MJW;401279]You only have one point, and that it doesn't say "NOT" to rack them.


Thank you for that admission. Finally. 



> Bring it to the attention of your rep and you will find out the truth.


I wouldn't be surprised if you joined me tomorrow in calling our local reps. :laughing:



> Why would a shingle act differently after being lifted you say?????


Come on now...quote me correctly and "in" context...

"What would make that particular shingle act differently from the others?"

"from" the others...if the lifted shingle won't stick because it was lifted, then what about the rest of the roof that is exactly the same age? 

What's "your" answer (besides your questioning the question)? 



> You need to go back and learn about the layers of shingles, different mats, and what fiberglass is......think about it........and then re-word what you wrote. I can't believe that was said by a roofer.


Well, I wouldn't dare tell you how to install vynil siding or how to replace a window. :thumbsup:

(Funny, but anybody engaging in Roofing work needs to be licensed "as" a "Roofer" in your state, no?)


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

=Slyfox;401056]I swear i never once ever used the word "stacking" until i posted here on this subject, So if a term doesn't exist in "Ohio", it doesn't exist? 
Ever heard of "alligatoring" or "fishmouthing" or "telegraphing"? 

With Gutters, the pipes coming down from the gutter are technically called "downspouts", but we ('round deez here parts) call them "leaders". 


Quote:
:blink:"2ndGen is a bad influence":blink: 
:laughing::laughing::laughing:


I was trying to be funny, hope you took it that way.
The swearing to never using the word Stacking lead up to the reference of you being a bad influence :laughing:, but was doing it in a good jokingly way tho,not in a disputing way.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Slyfox said:


> :laughing::laughing::laughing:
> I was trying to be funny, hope you took it that way.
> The swearing to never using the word Stacking lead up to the reference of you being a bad influence :laughing:, but was doing it in a good jokingly way tho,not in a disputing way.


:laughing: I was actually laughing my butt off! :thumbsup:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Yes, roofers have to be licensed as a roofer, but a licensed GC can do everything, excluding plumbing and electrical. This is why I did the GC course. Funny thing is, a person can do siding without a license at all, but they still require permits.


For your other post, just because something has been done for "100 years" doesn't mean it's right.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

> MJW;401352]Yes, roofers have to be licensed as a roofer, but a licensed GC can do everything, excluding plumbing and electrical.


But you can't do commercial roofing, right (only residential roofing)? 

Also, if your gross income exceeds $15,000. from roofing, don't you have to be a licensed roofer? 



> This is why I did the GC course. Funny thing is, a person can do siding without a license at all, but they still require permits.


To be honest, I think every trade should be licensed (even siders). I've seen some wicked siding and roofing jobs. New York is trailing as far as licensing requirements are concerned. 



> For your other post, just because something has been done for "100 years" doesn't mean it's right.


:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I'm just going to leave that one "floating" around for a while. 

:laughing::laughing::laughing:

I can't even respond to that it's so funny!


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Commercial roofers don't even have a license.

Our license means nothing in commercial work, but we don't need it to do commercial work, if that makes sense.

Less than $15,000, yes, in legal terms, you can do anything without a license. Not saying you will get a permit though.


You can let the topic float if you want. I'm the only one responding anyhow. This topic has been discussed too many times as it is.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> Commercial roofers don't even have a license.
> 
> Our license means nothing in commercial work, but we don't need it to do commercial work, if that makes sense.
> 
> ...


Not the topic, just this! :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

"For your other post, just because something has been done for "100 years" doesn't mean it's right."


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

oh, ok, well whatever. have a good laugh about a good statement. Not sure about any of your posts now. Are you drunk?


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

MJW said:


> oh, ok, well whatever. have a good laugh about a good statement. Not sure about any of your posts now. Are you drunk?


Me? 
(Hiccup!)
N-n-never!
(Hiccup!)

Unless you consider Pepsi a drink! :drink:


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