# Need a No formaldehyde, No tar Underlayment for nail-down



## finaltouchfloor (Jul 26, 2009)

I need a No formaldehyde, No tar Underlayment for nail-down. I have a client gets deathly due to the smell of tar, formaldehyde & many hardwoods. Her doctor tested her for Oak so we are nailing down oak. I can't use regular 15lb tar paper.I sent them the MSDS data sheet for Fortifiber HWD-15 but that has too much tar. Does anyone know about a super ECO-friendly underlayment for a naildown?


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## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

Titanium.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

rosin paper? Not sure of any off gassing issues.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

loneframer said:


> rosin paper? Not sure of any off gassing issues.



That's what I use, unless it's over a crawlspace. Another option is quietwalk. It has a moisture barrier built in for over crawlspaces.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Red rosin paper has been
the choice for a hundred years.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

I second the Quietwalk.


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## finaltouchfloor (Jul 26, 2009)

I’m looking for the MSDS report/data sheet on Quiet-Walk under-lament. I have a client that has serious allergies and needs to view the data sheet. Every product imported or manufactured in the US is assigned an MSDS rating number. Do you know what the number is for Quiet-Walk under-lament?



Rosin paper has too much tar for this client, she has read the MSDS data sheet for Fortifiber HWD-15 Rosin paper




Has anyone used the new Silicone Vapor Sheild made by Allglobe Inc?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

http://tinyurl.com/37sxrje










http://www.mpglobalproducts.com/quietwalk/index.html


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## finaltouchfloor (Jul 26, 2009)

neolitic said:


> http://tinyurl.com/37sxrje
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very funny, I tried mpglobal's site, LL's site & the national wood flooring assoc site before posting. No msds report as needed by client. After a call into Mpglobal, a tech named bob emailed me :

1) CHPS info from Berkeley labs
2) Test report for CA section 01350 
3) Test report for large chamber formalehyde test. (0.00ppm) 

Its all good.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

finaltouchfloor said:


> Very funny, I tried mpglobal's site, LL's site & the national wood flooring assoc site before posting. No msds report as needed by client. After a call into Mpglobal, a tech named bob emailed me :
> 
> 1) CHPS info from Berkeley labs
> 2) Test report for CA section 01350
> ...


Sorry, couldn't resist....


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## Dairylander (Oct 27, 2009)

Coincidentally, I am going through the same situation.
Client doesn't want felt because she heard it outgasses.
I explained the outgassing of tar paper is typically only when it's put over radiant heating, but she is still concerned.
The floor will be over a crawl space, so I've been searching for something with vapor-retarding properties.
Quietwalk sounds like a good solution for me but I've never used it.
So my question is this:
The spec sheet says it's 1/8th inch thick.
Will it compress when I nail down hardwoods over it or will I be planing down a transition at every threshold to meet with the existing hardwoods?


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## finaltouchfloor (Jul 26, 2009)

*Quietwalk is not quiet*

I finished this 1100 sq ft 5" X 1/2" Engineered nail-Down Installation today.
When i came in this morning I noticed that there were many creaks, squeaks & popping. I figured the floor might just need a few strategically place top nails. I hate to topnail a pre-finished product but this was a very rustic handscraped floor & I have a wax pen that worked great. 

Please keep in mind that we spent 4 hrs re-fastening plywood sub-floor, sanding lips & leveling the sub-floor. This sub-floor was clean & perfect. 
I use a Power Nailer 50P w/ 1 1/2" cleats for Engineered & Bamboo pre-finished floors. My big staplers for solid 3/4" blow thru the tab on engineered\bamboo products. We shot a cleat about every 4 inches.

The new rooms we installed today didn't make much noise; just a few spots. Me and one of my very experienced installers was bothered my the creaking so we did a little testing. When a 200 lbs man walks across the new floor it movied up & down. It seems that the quiet-walk gives too much cushion causing the floor to move up & down. My guys seem to think that the new rooms will squeak the same tomorrow.

Any thoughts to what the floor will do next? I've never had this problem will tar/rosin paper. Has anyone ever nailed engineered 5" flooring with quiet-walk?


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## astor (Dec 19, 2008)

Finaltouch, I find some creaks, squeaks happens in a few first days of installation, the wood settles down I guess. They disappear in a few days in my case.
The best underlayment I have used is waxed paper that was available in Ontario, Canada.Looks like just butcher's wax paper.The wood slides so easy, but takes sometime to get used to.Many of my helpers just falling down.


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## Dairylander (Oct 27, 2009)

Just finished 600 sq. ft. of flooring using Quietwalk.
3/4 hardwood, 2 inch cleats every 5 inches.
It is dead quiet, no squeaks at all.
The Quietwalk compresses a lot and only raises the finished floor height by a sixteenth of an inch or less. 
It's almost totally flush with the older flooring in the house that's over tar paper.
It rolls out nice and flat, kind of a pain to cut, but otherwise I liked it a lot.
Client liked the zero odor.
Thanks guys for the recommendation.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

finaltouchfloor said:


> Rosin paper has too much tar for this client, she has read the MSDS data sheet for Fortifiber HWD-15 Rosin paper


http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/data_sheets/DS_red_rosin.pdf
looks like it doesn't require a MSDS (last line on above document). where did she find it? to the best of my knowledge it doesn't contain any tar, it's a tree-based product.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

...maybe she was thinking of kraft paper aka aquabar b? that's an asphalt-impregnated paper...


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## finaltouchfloor (Jul 26, 2009)

She was in the hospital for 6 monthes due to the tar from the roof that was installed on this new home. They spent an additonal 40K for a special metal roof that looks like a regular roof. 

I gave her the info for Fortifiber HWD-15 Rosin paper and she insisted that it had tar.

 Quiet-walk might work for 3/4" X 2~3" planks, but it didn't work for 5" X 1/2" engineered w/ cleats every 5 inches. It has settled down alot, but i'm still going back saturday to try to make it totally silent.

 I'm all ears if anyone has any ideas.

Thanks


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

finaltouchfloor said:


> She was in the hospital for 6 monthes due to the tar from the roof that was installed on this new home. They spent an additonal 40K for a special metal roof that looks like a regular roof.
> 
> I gave her the info for Fortifiber HWD-15 Rosin paper and she insisted that it had tar.
> 
> ...


Wish I could help ya, I've only used it twice. Once on 5" BC & once on 4" sight sanded maple. Had no creeking issues with the solid woods.


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## covaltleveling (Aug 13, 2010)

*subfloor preperation for wood flooring*

I would suggest a very neat installation of red Rosin paper. I have never experienced any out gassing with this type of product and use in often in subfloor preparation.

You may want to lay it out and leave it "open" for 24 hours just for good measure, in that the client is hyper conditioned....

Good luck!


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## KG007 (Oct 23, 2009)

*Check Aquabar or lamiante u/l*

You might check what the specs are on Aquabar, cost is about the same as felt, looks like brown kraft paper but is supposed to actually be moisture PROOF, not just moisture RETARDENT.

Could also try the same foam junk pad that usually goes under laminate. I don't know what emmissions it might have but I'm sure you could get an MSD on it.

For that matter, you COULD lay the wood without underlayment. The only reason I can find for using felt is as a moisture retardent. But if there is a lot of moisture it isn't going to stop it. Had a job where the homeowner was directing rain run-off into the crawl space, within about 10 months it had gone through the felt into the wood and caused it to cup.


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