# wiring a light switch



## Handy Randy (Feb 5, 2008)

Residential / household electric.

Need help ASAP. Back on the job tomorrow. I can’t seem to figure this one out. I think I’m overworking the problem. The original problem was the light switch didn’t work. If you wiggled it the light would come on. It was very old. This receptacle is a little different. It has a light switch on the top and a plug on the bottom. The old one was in two pieces, switch and a non-grounded plug/outlet. The new one is one piece, switch on the top and the grounded outlet on the bottom.
I have 4-wires coming out of the receptacle box, bare ground, black, white, red.
On the receptacle if you are looking at the front the side with the switch, on the top left we have a gold screw, bottom left we have silver screw, top right black screw, right middle black screw, right bottom green screw.

I have a circuit tester, battery operated; you touch the ends together it lights up letting you know that electricity can flow.
With the breaker off, I touch W & B = light, W & G = light, B & G = light, R to anything = no light.

If I wire it like this
 B
W B outlet works, but not the switch
 G

W B
 B
 G breaker trips

R B
W B
 G outlet works, but not the switch

R B
W 
 G Didn’t write results, but switch didn’t work

R
W B
 G Didn’t write results, but switch didn’t work

Can you figure out how to wire this?
Thanks,
Randy


Sorry, I can't get the posting to post exactly as I typed it.
Thanks,
Randy


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Your electrician will know.


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## Handy Randy (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks mdshunk, but it doesn't really help me.
Randy


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Handy Randy said:


> Thanks mdshunk, but it doesn't really help me.
> Randy


It wasn't intended to. It was intended to tick you off a little, frustrate you, and hopefully make you call in qualified help.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Besides, the topic of this forum is Electrical Picture Post. 


Randy, I have to agree with Marc. If you can't even troubleshoot something like this you have NO place doing this work in other people's homes for pay. Seriously.

Does you liability insurance policy cover you doing electrical work?


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## JPF (Dec 20, 2006)

Why do i want to say "lick the black wire":tongue_smilie:..........You really need to call an electrician, for your sake as well as the homeowner!!!!


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## Tin Cup (Nov 22, 2007)

JPF said:


> Why do i want to say "lick the black wire":tongue_smilie:..........You really need to call an electrician, for your sake as well as the homeowner!!!!


just like putting your tongue on a 9 volt battery. 

boy, you lectricians are being nice. you're all getting soft.


Tin Cup


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## odellconstruct (Mar 27, 2008)

black and red are your power leads white is neutral bare is gound , 

gold screw to black wire , silver screw to white , , sounds like you have 3 wire with ground, black and red are hot , 1 for switch and one for outlet green for ground and the white(neutral ) wire fir the silver pig tail and use a jumper for white to respticals

you dont have to be liscened just able to do it correctly to code .


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

odellconstruct said:


> black and red are your power leads white is neutral bare is gound ,
> 
> gold screw to black wire , silver screw to white , , sounds like you have 3 wire with ground, black and red are hot , 1 for switch and one for outlet green for ground and the white(neutral ) wire fir the silver pig tail and use a jumper for white to respticals
> 
> you dont have to be liscened just able to do it correctly to code .


Do not give advice to the under-qualified. This is how persons get hurt. Give "them" a little confidence and they will attempt anything!!!


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

additionally, it's incorrect advice...the fountain of misinformation strikes again:laughing:

so you might not have to be "liscened (sic) just able to do it correctly to code", but i'm pretty sure being able to correctly spell 'licensed' would help in knowing how to actually fix it correctly:laughing:


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## MVH (Jun 24, 2007)

Randy doesn't seem so handy. Dude, spend some time with someone who knows whats going on.

Mike


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Not all of us "New Yorkers" is illiterates. Some of us be less edumicated. Thats all. Ya no what I means?


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

odellconstruct said:


> black and red are your power leads white is neutral bare is gound ,
> 
> gold screw to black wire , silver screw to white , , sounds like you have 3 wire with ground, black and red are hot , 1 for switch and one for outlet green for ground and the white(neutral ) wire fir the silver pig tail and use a jumper for white to respticals
> 
> you dont have to be liscened just able to do it correctly to code .


OK Mr. Tesla jr..This box has both an outlet and a light switch,right?..If the black and red are both hot and the white is the neutral, what one is for the load?

Without seeing the problem my guess is the power was run to the light fixture box.From there they ran a 14/3 to the switch/outlet box.If one does not know what to do to make it work,for a sparky this is a piece of cake, then one should call said sparky.

And to the O/P..You realy need to stay away from anything that involves wires!


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Handy Randy said:


> Residential / household electric.
> 
> Need help ASAP. Back on the job tomorrow. I can’t seem to figure this one out. I think I’m overworking the problem. The original problem was the light switch didn’t work. If you wiggled it the light would come on. It was very old. This receptacle is a little different. It has a light switch on the top and a plug on the bottom. The old one was in two pieces, switch and a non-grounded plug/outlet. The new one is one piece, switch on the top and the grounded outlet on the bottom.
> I have 4-wires coming out of the receptacle box, bare ground, black, white, red.
> ...



" breaker trips", That's scary.

.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey Randy....bet you did not think that you were gonna get kicked in the nuts with that question!!!!!!!

The point is....If you have to ask, (about basics) you should call someone who knows!

Sub it out!


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

mickeyco said:


> " breaker trips", That's scary.
> 
> .


LOL...OK..Let's see...Black to red,nothing...Black to white...ZZZZT DOH!!
That sucked...OK how about Black to this pretty copper one..ZZZZT DOH!
:laughing:


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

Obviously the bare goes to the green ground screw that is attached to the metal frame of the device.

White goes to silver screw (neutral)

The power (likely black...test it) goes to the terminal on the opposite side if the silver screw.

The switch leg (the only one left, likely red) goes to the only terminal left, above the silver one.

THINK about it. Follow the path.


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## odellconstruct (Mar 27, 2008)

220/221 said:


> Obviously the bare goes to the green ground screw that is attached to the metal frame of the device.
> 
> White goes to silver screw (neutral)
> 
> ...


 thats what i was saying !! dont attempt the advise on the pigtail was thinking you had 2 white my bad (dam beer messes with your mind )


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## odellconstruct (Mar 27, 2008)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Not all of us "New Yorkers" is illiterates. Some of us be less edumicated. Thats all. Ya no what I means?


 so i spelled a word incorrectly, after busting my butt all day and having a few cold ones , at 10 pm mistakes happen! remember contractors help people not rip them off , i'm sure if he called a electrician would have cost him $75 (relax i'm guessing ) just to put a switch in .


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

MALCO.New.York said:


> Not all of us "New Yorkers" is illiterates. Some of us be less edumicated. Thats all. Ya no what I means?


I feel you, I feel you.


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## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I'm guessing Randy's got a switch/ pilot light combination.


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## dSilanskas (Mar 23, 2008)

So you have a switch receptical combo. First of all make sure you have the right switch. If the light is controled by one location make sure you have a single pole switch if two locations make sure a three way. Anyways to answer your question if you have a single three wire in the box this is probably how they did it. Black is hot, Red goes to light, What nutral. So what you should have on the device is once side should have two gold screws and the other side should have a gold and a silver screw and a green screw. On the side that has the two gold screws put your black wire. It doesn't matter which scew because there should be a brass bridge between them. On the other side put the red wire to the gold screw and put the white wire to the silver screw and put the bare wire aka ground wire to the green screw and you should be all set. Good luck and make sure the black wire is indeed the hot. Sometimes you will have the red wire as the hot.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Hello Randy, and welcome to the site.

Please put your location in your profile.

I'd encourage you to make an introductory post in the Introductions forum and tell us a bit about yourself and your company.

As to your problem, GL. The electricians here are fiercely dedicated to doing things by the book as you can see.

You might try posting this question on our sister forum, DIYChatRoom.com.

Again, welcome to the site.

Moved from Electrical Picture Post to Electrical.


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## Stickman (Mar 7, 2008)

Why not kill it and ring it out??????? 

Do things right the first time and no one gets hurt. 


However with that said you should seek a electrician before you hurt yourself or someone or worse yet burn the joint down.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

odellconstruct said:


> black and red are your power leads white is neutral bare is gound ,
> 
> gold screw to black wire , silver screw to white , , sounds like you have 3 wire with ground, black and red are hot , 1 for switch and one for outlet green for ground and the white(neutral ) wire fir the silver pig tail and use a jumper for white to respticals
> 
> you dont have to be liscened just able to do it correctly to code .





220/221 said:


> Obviously the bare goes to the green ground screw that is attached to the metal frame of the device.
> 
> White goes to silver screw (neutral)
> 
> ...





odellconstruct said:


> thats what i was saying !! dont attempt the advise on the pigtail was thinking you had 2 white my bad (dam beer messes with your mind )


the problem is, that might be what you meant, but it's not what you said...handy randy was/is so far over his head, he wouldn't be able to decipher what you were saying...so, where you really helping him? or was md really helping him?

how much will it cost the customer for handy randy to spend 8 hrs trying to get this switch working? vs hiring an electrician?

that's the problem with these boards...it's incredibly difficult to convey technical information when A) the person asking the questions is in over their head...B)the people answering their questions can't really be sure what the specific situation is...and C) when there is an 'innerface' error with the person posting the answer...

(innerface error - when there is a scrambling of information between the brain and the mouth or fingers...usually somewhere innerface region)


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Magnettica said:


> I'm guessing Randy's got a switch/ pilot light combination.


nope


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Double-A said:


> Hello Randy, and welcome to the site.
> 
> Please put your location in your profile.
> 
> ...


yep...he guaranteed to get the correct advice over there


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

understand...this isn't handy randy trying to fix this in his own house...this is handy randy trying to do this repair in a paying customers house...a customer who may not know any better and think that handy randy is qualified to do this...a customer who may know that handy randy isn't qualified, but may be willing to risk a bigger problem to save a few $..but regardless, handy randy is charging someone to do electrical work he is clearly not competent to do...

good luck handy randy, where ever you are...


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## Brockster (Aug 24, 2007)

I thought carpenters, handymen and all the GC's here would have answered the question at hand. I know they are ALL pro's when it comes to drywall and give some great advice!:laughing:


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## Tin Cup (Nov 22, 2007)

mahlere said:


> understand...this isn't handy randy trying to fix this in his own house...this is handy randy trying to do this repair in a paying customers house...a customer who may not know any better and think that handy randy is qualified to do this...a customer who may know that handy randy isn't qualified, but may be willing to risk a bigger problem to save a few $..but regardless, handy randy is charging someone to do electrical work he is clearly not competent to do...
> 
> good luck handy randy, where ever you are...


 
Post of the day so far. being paid to do anything is what separates the approach. Risk, Liability, Reward.....

We haven't heard from Randy in awhile. maybe it was a test post just to get a reaction ?

Tin Cup


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Tin Cup said:


> Post of the day so far. being paid to do anything is what separates the approach. Risk, Liability, Reward.....
> 
> We haven't heard from Randy in awhile. maybe it was a test post just to get a reaction ?
> 
> Tin Cup


Nope. Handy Randy just got tired of getting kicked in he knuts!!!! And ran away!!!


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## Tonyeo (Sep 25, 2007)

Brockster carpenters, handyman and GC's are allowed to do drywall but not electrical, although you guys are better at it.. Malco I agree that he probably did get fed up with the abuse.
Anywho some of us like to learn things and being able to give a customer information can only help us and you electricians to understand the problem maybe a little better, so when you get the call, which of course you will it may just be helpful to you. You know when an idiot like me asks questions it does not take much to remind us that code requires you guys to do the work and not us, and if we reply saying that we are just interested maybe just maybe you might indulge us.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

Tonyeo said:


> Brockster carpenters, handyman and *GC's are allowed to do drywall but not electrical,* although you guys are better at it.. Malco I agree that he probably did get fed up with the abuse.
> Anywho some of us like to learn things and being able to give a customer information can only help us and you electricians to understand the problem maybe a little better, so when you get the call, which of course you will it may just be helpful to you. You know when an idiot like me asks questions it does not take much to remind us that code requires you guys to do the work and not us, and if we reply saying that we are just interested maybe just maybe you might indulge us.


That is not true in all states..


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

This thread only needed 1 reply...

MD had it right.


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## Tonyeo (Sep 25, 2007)

JumboJack said:


> That is not true in all states..



Sorry did not think, I'm in my own world sometimes


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Handy Randy , you are just asking in the wrong place. The place to get "expert" advise on detailed and difficult electrical problems is from one of the "experts" over at your hardware store. Or you could just watch HGTV for a couple of days, they can do it all faster than anybody in the world over there. Or, you could just listen to MD on this and not burn down the house.


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## Electricmanscot (Feb 6, 2005)

Tin Cup said:


> Post of the day so far. being paid to do anything is what separates the approach. Risk, Liability, Reward.....
> 
> We haven't heard from Randy in awhile. maybe it was a test post just to get a reaction ?
> 
> Tin Cup




Or maybe he's dead....:laughing:


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

charlieb said:


> The one electrical concept that is least well understood by the “do it yourself person,” indeed it is seldom even perceived by the DIY, is this:
> ·* IF* you finish the job without yourself having suffered any injury,
> 
> ·* AND IF* when you turn it on, there are no sparks,
> ...





Originally posted on the Mike Holt Forum, by Charlie B.


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## dSilanskas (Mar 23, 2008)

Don't you guys think that your beating this thread a bit? Haha the guy got his answer about a week ago :laughing:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

JohnJ0906 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by charlieb
> The one electrical concept that is least well understood by the “do it yourself person,” indeed it is seldom even perceived by the DIY, is this:
> · IF you finish the job without yourself having suffered any injury,
> ...


I'm sure that this explains why 
in *my* panel,
(among half dozen other idiot moves)
I found that the stranded range wires
had been pigtailed to solid by twisting
the stranded around the solid and applying
liberal amounts of tape.
No connectors required, since it was done by
a licensed electrician.
(Yes I'm sure of that, Mom hired him,
and he left his sticker on the panel,
and no one else was in there after him.)

A license doesn't make anyone
intellegent, moral, honest, or safe.
Just licensed.


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## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

neolitic said:


> A license doesn't make anyone
> intellegent, moral, honest, or safe.
> Just licensed.



No! Licensing does not assure propriety!!! BUT........It does remove Handy Dandy Randy from blame or lawsuit!!!!


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## JohnJ0906 (Jan 7, 2007)

neolitic said:


> A license doesn't make anyone
> intellegent, moral, honest, or safe.
> Just licensed.


AND insured, at least around here.
Other than that, you are correct.


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## GSE (Aug 24, 2007)

Ok with that type of set up any color can be going to any screw, you have no idea how the switch leg was configures, or for that mater how the outlet, was derived, very dangerous trying to give information to the non qualified.

If you are a professional handyman, you should know your limits, and when you run into a problem stop and find the proper sub to go in, is you work too cheap, and don't cover your jobs, with an open clause, allowing for problems like this then your in trouble for the long term.

Our local professional handymen charge $130 to $150 just to show up, and they are all busy 24/7 and in most cases have nicer trucks then us, they all call in the special trades when needed.

A few houses up the street the lady had a handymany fix her basement light, he was there 15 or 20 minutes and charged her $150 she is telling anyone that will listen what a great guy he is


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## Tonyeo (Sep 25, 2007)

So how many of you guys will go and change a single outlet or switch ?


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

I will, charge enough to make it worthwhile. Get paid for dispatch before leaving your office. Simple enough.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Tonyeo said:


> So how many of you guys will go and change a single outlet or switch ?


That's why you have them replace the crappy light fixture you wanted gone for years and couple "loose" or broken switches and outlets and any other electrical problems you might have while they're out there to get a real value.


.


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## bknock10 (Apr 9, 2008)

you guys are rough. (is my spelling corect)


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## 31b (Jan 14, 2008)

bknock10 said:


> you guys are rough. (is my spelling *corect*)


nope ;-)


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