# Pad Stones



## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

Hello, I am from the UK and was wondering what you call Pad Stones. (Hopefully I am in the correct section)

A Padstone is the first and last brick or stone of an Arch, seated on the Spring Line, they are also known as a stone or a robust block which is laid under the end of a beam or a steel joist, to help distribute the load.

Thanks for the help.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

To show you what I mean:










The Brick underneath this beam is a padstone.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

From my understanding, the first and last stone or brick in a arch that rests on the springing line is called the springer. The other units are voussoirs with the keystone centered in the arch. I never heard of a `padstone' but that could be just because its a regional description.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

Does the picture which I posted help you at all?, to try and understand what I am trying to say?

Thanks.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> The Brick underneath this beam is a padstone.


Technically that is not a brick, it is a concrete masonry unit or what we call a concrete block. I wouldn't bring it up except that you seem to be looking for a technical word.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

Sorry a concrete masonry unit, either way in the UK it is called a padstone lol.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> Sorry a concrete masonry unit, either way in the UK it is called a padstone lol.


No need to apologize....just keeping the terms straight....we usually just call them a CMU cause we lazy.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

So that little bit underneath the beam is called a Concrete Masonry Unit.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> So that little bit underneath the beam is called a Concrete Masonry Unit.


No ALL the little bits are called CMU. I don't know the name for that particular CMU. Just wait a bit and the regulars will check in and/or get home from work and help you out.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

Ok thanks a lot mate


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Lintel, if anything.


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## dbrons (Apr 12, 2010)

I don't know if we have a special name for that CMU  I would just call it the point at which the beam is bearing on the wall.

Sometimes that CMU will be reinforced and a steel "bearing plate" will be installed.
Dave


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

Padstone works.
Whether brick, concrete, stone or CMU, solid or filled hollow or even an anchored steel plate.
(Although, I might not call the actual steel plate a stone.)

Or

Impost.
When referring to the top stone on a column, pillar, pier or wall that will be supporting an arch.

D.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

Does not look like a block to me. It looks like someone fudged up the bearing height for that piece of steel. To fix it they nailed a piece of wood to the face of the wall and filled it with concrete to the correct bearing height.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

A padstone in the UK is a solid concrete block designed to go under a steel beam to take the point loading and spread it to the masonry walls below it. 
The first and last bricks on an arch are the springers as stated by stonecutter. 
The concrete blocks in the photo are probably 4 inches thick, so a padstone would be needed under the RSJ(rolled steel joist) which I think is probably called an I beam in the USA.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

stuart45 said:


> A padstone in the UK is a solid concrete block designed to go under a steel beam to take the point loading and spread it to the masonry walls below it.
> The first and last bricks on an arch are the springers as stated by stonecutter.
> The concrete blocks in the photo are probably 4 inches thick, so a padstone would be needed under the RSJ(rolled steel joist) which I think is probably called an I beam in the USA.





You are correct..in the US (RSJ) is refered to as an I-beam.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

dbrons said:


> I don't know if we have a special name for that CMU
> 
> I would just call it the point at which the beam is bearing on the wall.


catchy


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

stuart 45 said:


> A padstone in the UK is a solid concrete block designed to go under a steel beam to take the point loading and spread it to the masonry walls below it.


Agreed, and the answer to the original query.




> The first and last bricks on an arch are the springers as stated by stonecutter.


This is true, but, they are considered, part of the arch.
Below the spring line, at the top of the column, pillar, pier, or wall, lies the impost.
Serving the same function as a padstone, distributing the weight of the beam, bar joist, lintel, etc., the impost is a larger stone, or what have you, that distributes the weight of the arch and all that goes with it, built on the top of this stone.

I hope this makes sense.
One day I will learn how to attach diagrams.

But, for now,
D.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

So what is that little brick called which we call pad stones?
Is it an I-Beam or a springer?


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

EPP_Aidan said:


> So what is that little brick called which we call pad stones?
> Is it an I-Beam or a springer?


The I-beam is the steel.

I guess you could call the small stones springers if you consider the I-beam to be a flat (jack)arch support, which are usually over a window or doorway...but jack arches are typically a masonry arch and not a steel I-beam.

From the picture it looks like additional height was needed to bring the solid block up to the correct level so the smaller units did the job. Unless this is the way it is done over there, I dont know. The supports that I have done and have seen over here have been solid units up to the RSJ(I-BEAM).


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## dbrons (Apr 12, 2010)

> From the picture it looks like additional height was needed to bring the solid block up to the correct level


Yeah NJBrickie noticed that yesterday....post #14


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

I don't want to know what the I-Beam is, I need to know what the I-Beam is resting on, we call them Pad Stones.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

This is what I am after:








This is what we call a pad stone, and this is what this 'I-beam' is resting on, does anyone know what these are called in the US?


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> This is what I am after:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


People understand your question, and they have answered it.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

You can't though, Padstones and I-Beams look nothing alike. An I Beam is a Beam and a Padstone is what is above, a concrete stone so the Padstones are not called I-Beams.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> You can't though, Padstones and I-Beams look nothing alike. An I Beam is a Beam and a Padstone is what is above, a concrete stone so the Padstones are not called I-Beams.


Somehow you are confused. I don't think anyone thinks they are the same. These are some of the smartest guys on the internets in here, trust me they know the difference.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

Well my manager who is also a builder said I-Beams are not even close to what a Pad Stone is, I am looking for the name for what the 'I-Beam' is resting on (In the UK its called a padstone).


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dbrons said:


> Yeah NJBrickie noticed that yesterday....post #14


Obviously, but from time to time you will see the same answer in a thread because the same question is being asked..its not that unusual.

EPP, you seem to know what you want and what it looks like. If you do, call them whatever you want and use them. You asked if the little stones in the picture were called an I beam or springer. The way the question is asked implied you didn't know the difference in the description.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

stonecutter said:


> Obviously, but from time to time you will see the same answer in a thread because the same question is being asked..not unusual if the same question is being asked.
> 
> EPP, you seem to know what you want and what it looks like. If you do, call them whatever you want and use them. You asked if the little stones in the picture were called an I beam or springer. The way the question is asked implied you didn't know the difference in the description.


Stonecutter, how can I call them whatever I want when I need to find them on home depot or Lowes or anyother big hardware store in the US, after this I then have to input them into the program, how can I do that without knowing the proper technical name for a padstone?


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> Well my manager who is also a builder said I-Beams are not even close to what a Pad Stone is, I am looking for the name for what the 'I-Beam' is resting on (In the UK its called a padstone).


Obviously there is not a well accepted name for this particular piece of CMU

Here are you answers by the wizened grand masters of masonry.
TSC - Lintel
stonecutter and others - stringer
DD - impost
dbrons - point at which the beam is bearing on the wall

Take you pick and run with it.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

EPP_Aidan said:


> Stonecutter, how can I call them whatever I want when I need to find them on home depot or Lowes or anyother big hardware store in the US, after this I then have to input them into the program, how can I do that without knowing the proper technical name for a padstone?


How about grey solid concrete brick...That should work if you go to a big box store...if you are shopping there for your material, a technical name will just break the brain of the employee anyway.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

I can't run with any of them unless they are correct, Lintel is not correct, Stringer is also not correct, Nor in impost.

Just looked at every single one and they look nothing like and do not even resemble a padstone.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

I am not personally buying it, I work for a company which is developing building software for builders like yourselves. I do need the name of the item so I can look online and fine a price for it.

The program is there to let builders estimate how much one of their projects will cost.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> I can't run with any of them unless they are correct, Lintel is not correct, Stringer is also not correct, Nor in impost.
> 
> Just looked at every single one and they look nothing like and do not even resemble a padstone.


What will you do if there is NOT a standard name for this piece of CMU?


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

I am sure there must be a standard name for the piece of CMU which I am after, just a case of trying to find it.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> I am not personally buying it, I work for a company which is developing building software for builders like yourselves. I do need the name of the item so I can look online and fine a price for it.
> 
> The program is there to let builders estimate how much one of their projects will cost.


This is a golden opportunity to make up a name for this piece of CMU.

I would suggest the John Jingleheimer Schmidt block. We can all run with that and there will be no confusion in this forum concerning that piece of CMU ever again. Now the guys at HD will still be in the dark but we can't save the whole world.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

I am pretty sure a company like home depot or lowes will not sell a piece of equipment called this lol.


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## dbrons (Apr 12, 2010)

> Well my manager who is also a builder said I-Beams are not even close to what a Pad Stone is, I am looking for the name for what the 'I-Beam' is resting on (In the UK its called a padstone).


:whistling Like lucachuci said, we know the difference. As an aside, someone just mentioned that the beam is known, here in the USA, as an Ibeam. 

And the answer to your question is early in the thread too. The piece the beam bears on is called a CMU. What we're saying is *there is no special name commonly used for that part.* The CMU you've pictured above would be called, simply, a brick.

Your plan would have a notation saying something like "beam bears on 4x8x16 cmu and 8x8 bearing plate embedded 16 inces" 

Us Yanks we're kinda coarse you know  And terms like springers, skew backs etc are not used much anymore and where they are, you'll find different parts of the country have different terms so for clarity, the drawings we follow use the generic term CMU which means basicaly, block or brick. 

Dave


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> I am pretty sure a company like home depot or lowes will not sell a piece of equipment called this lol.


I am pretty sure that most professionals stay as far away from the DIY boxstores as possible. I know I would never go to home depot for a John Jingleheimer Schmidt block, they are WAY too specialized.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

EPP_Aidan said:


> Well my manager who is also a builder said I-Beams are not even close to what a Pad Stone is, I am looking for the name for what the 'I-Beam' is resting on (In the UK its called a padstone).


When a beam is used the opening for the beam is called a beam pocket. The beam is usually rested on a poured cell and or course with steel reinforcement. Im not sure if these solid blocks are used much. Perhaps back in the day when pouring the cells wasnt as common.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

EPP_Aidan said:


> Stonecutter, how can I call them whatever I want when I need to find them on home depot or Lowes or anyother big hardware store in the US, after this I then have to input them into the program, how can I do that without knowing the proper technical name for a padstone?


Well Home Depot wont have what you are looking for. You could call them a 4" solid block I suppose.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

EPP_Aidan said:


> I am not personally buying it, I work for a company which is developing building software for builders like yourselves. I do need the name of the item so I can look online and fine a price for it.
> 
> The program is there to let builders estimate how much one of their projects will cost.


Is this for the US or for another country?


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

lukachuki said:


> I am pretty sure that most professionals stay as far away from the DIY boxstores as possible. I know I would never go to home depot for a John Jingleheimer Schmidt block, they are WAY too specialized.


I just found this - http://www.construction-dictionary.com/definition/padstone.html


Sorry if you are frustrated. We are just trying to clarify your questions. I have to thank you though...I had never heard of a `padstone' before this thread. 


If you are shopping at a big box store just ask for a solid cement brick. If you use any technical terms you will break the brain of the employee or get a vacant look.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

lukachuki said:


> I am pretty sure that most professionals stay as far away from the DIY boxstores as possible. I know I would never go to home depot for a John Jingleheimer Schmidt block, they are WAY too specialized.


We actually use their prices as a basic guidline or an average for that price, and so that PADSTONE is a CMU?


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> We actually use their prices as a basic guidline or an average for that price, and so that PADSTONE is a CMU?


Not to confuse things any more than they are, but as has been pointed out twice, if you look closely in the picture you submitted it looks like it might be a wooden form used to form a concrete support for the RSJ. If this is true, then technically to reproduce the materials used, at home depot you would need to ask for a 2x8, a stick of rebar, and a bag of 5000 quickrete and either 3 or 6 4"x8" concrete brick cmu depending on if it is a 4" or 8" wall.

This particular piece is going to be nearly impossible to stick into your computer program as it will probably vary from engineer to engineer as to exactly what they will specify.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

The program has been released in the UK, I work for a company called Easy Price Pro. We are currently working on the American Version of this program, hense why I need to know what you guys Call Padstones, like for example you call poly filler Spackle.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

Thank you stonecutter, like stonecutter has pointed out, this is the definition of a padstone.
'A concrete or stone block used to spread a concentrated load over an area of wall'


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

EPP_Aidan said:


> We actually use their prices as a basic guidline or an average for that price, and so that PADSTONE is a CMU?



I have been looking around this morning and came across a CMU called a soapbar that is a small unit like in the picture.

http://www.stowellconcrete.co.uk/soap_bar_blocks_coursing_and_slip_bricks.php


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks for the help stonecutter, unfortunately I don't think that is it either.

If not I will just have to let my manager know lol.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

EPP_Aidan said:


> The program has been released in the UK, I work for a company called Easy Price Pro. We are currently working on the American Version of this program, hense why I need to know what you guys Call Padstones, like for example you call poly filler Spackle.


Well I'm sure this is just one of many obstacles you are going to have to figure out. Apparently there is not a standard way to brace an RSJ thus there cannot be just one word that will work. At least here in the states.


BTW sometimes its much easier for everyone involved if you would tell us why the question right upfront.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

'sometimes its much easier for everyone involved if you would tell us why the question right upfront. '

What do you mean?


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## dbrons (Apr 12, 2010)

> What do you mean?


What he means is we're happy to help out a bricklayer with a project, and clearly we don't mind BSing about the trade, but we're not here really to help you design software. And we wouldn't try to explain things in terms a bricklayer would understand if you're not a bricklayer.

See, you're asking a question that makes little sense, padstone, soapbar (lol) these terms are archaic. A padstone that distributes the weight along the wall would be used I guess in a solid stone wall.

Modern walls, at least most here in the USA, are reinforced with concrete and steel. The steel distributes the weight - no need for padstone. The cmu you would choose would just be whichever one gets you to the elevation you need to hit.

Dave


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

See, you're asking a question that makes little sense, padstone, soapbar (lol) these terms are archaic. A padstone that distributes the weight along the wall would be used I guess in a solid stone.

Dave[/QUOTE]

Actually, while soapbar (lol) may be archaic in the US, apparently it is a term still used in the UK and Ireland. At least that's what some of the websites were offering in addition to masonry units that are common here in the states. He is from the UK so maybe it is more familiar to him.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dbrons;
Modern walls said:


> Well said.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

There is a member on here named Dick (concretemasonry) who you need to have your manager/company HIRE. I'm sure he could help you through your various snaggles as he has vast international experience consulting in the masonry field. I'm sure he would be glad, for a fee (see his avatar) to give you a word maybe even two.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

From memory padstones have been in common use here for the last 30 odd years. In the past people started taking out the spine walls in the old 2 up 2 down row houses to make the lounge bigger. This was done by spanning across the party walls with an I beam. The brickwork was inferior quality and the point loading cracked the bricks. Nowadays many internal walls are AAC blocks which also need a padstone. 
The size of the padstone is usually worked out by the SE.
I doubt if they are used much in the USA, especially in the domestic market.
http://www.killeshal.com/mcart/pc/viewcat_h.asp?idcategory=173&idParentCategory=152&L=3


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

lukachuki said:


> There is a member on here named Dick (concretemasonry) who you need to have your manager/company HIRE. I'm sure he could help you through your various snaggles as he has vast international experience consulting in the masonry field. I'm sure he would be glad, for a fee (see his avatar) to give you a word maybe even two.


Lol Snaggles, funny how there are only two things we need to know, that is what you guys call oversite concrete and padstones.


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## EPP_Aidan (Aug 10, 2011)

dbrons said:


> What he means is we're happy to help out a bricklayer with a project, and clearly we don't mind BSing about the trade, but we're not here really to help you design software. And we wouldn't try to explain things in terms a bricklayer would understand if you're not a bricklayer.
> 
> See, you're asking a question that makes little sense, padstone, soapbar (lol) these terms are archaic. A padstone that distributes the weight along the wall would be used I guess in a solid stone wall.
> 
> ...


You are not designing the software for me at all, I simply asked what a Padstone is called and also what oversite concrete is called.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

There is a reason this simple question has over 50 posts....and I don't think it has much to do with the answers that have been given.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

EPP_Aidan said:


> The program has been released in the UK, I work for a company called Easy Price Pro. We are currently working on the American Version of this program, hense why I need to know what you guys Call Padstones, like for example you call poly filler Spackle.


Then you are here under false pretenses, only to do research for a product your company is developing. That is expressly forbidden in the forum rules.

This thread is closed.


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