# Subs not showing up



## NaeGan (Sep 8, 2009)

I was wondering if this is just my problem or if this is still happening commonly to others. They way the remodeling and construction industry has been, I would have thought this would have disappeared. 
The house I am currently working on I have had four subs either give estimates and not return calls, or not show up when they are supposed to do the work. It's upsetting because every job I am booking I am so thankful for. How do these guys do this. The sad thing is the flooring guy and the gutter guys didn't even have to submit a bid. I just told them to come do it. Not even a callback to explain why. 
The gutter guys that come to do it gave me a bid on a Monday at 4:30 and had it installed by Thursday at 1:00. He'll get all of them from now on. 
Just curious if this is common or I just need to affiliate with better fellas.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

NaeGan said:


> I just need to affiliate with better fellas.


That's my vote!

Don't worry, it sometimes takes years to develop a good roster of subs.

Edit-we've got more than a few good Iowa contractors on this site! Maybe they will chime in and be close enough to work with you!


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

I hope I am on your list RS!

Yeah where are you in IA? I wouldn't mind giving you the numbers of some good subs. 

I have more trouble with getting permits pushed through the BD.

Cole


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

His website says he's in Essex, IA 51638


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## Cole82 (Nov 22, 2008)

angus242 said:


> His website says he's in Essex, IA 51638


 Crap that is 4 hours away. Over on the other side by omaha.

Cole


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## Trim40 (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I've been meeting with GC's and homeowners, got the estimates written and no one returns my calls.
Maybe I should take a road trip to Iowa.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

> The sad thing is the flooring guy and the gutter guys didn't even have to submit a bid. I just told them to come do it.


Maybe they don't know you and trust you yet...give them a contract! and make sure you are ready when you told them you were ready.
It takes a while to get a good corps group, are you new to the area?
If you run a tight job and pay on time it wont take long.


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## NaeGan (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm not new to the area, but I am new to certain things trying to expand business into more aspects so I can become more full service. 

Normally I wouldn't have gotten my hands on the guttering. The homeowners had a gutter guy scheduled and he never showed up, so I told them I'd find one. Had to find 3. The company I finally go to do it jumped on it and got it done and I paid them as soon as they were done. 

I would normally do the vinyl myself, but I am realizing that for scheduling purposes I'm going to leave that to the pros from now on. They do it everyday and they can get it done before I even get a pattern mocked up.

It's a good lesson for me. Don't just think about what they charge. It doesn't matter if they don't show up. 

Thanks for the help.


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## Gary1 (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm having the same problem here in Iowa to. I am so tired of people thinking that they are worth waiting for. 

GaryS


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

It happens but not very often, I usually can get a good sense for competency over the phone. I keep a list of subs I use or ones I've considered using, as soon as someone is late to return a call or doesn't show up on a job, I quickly scratch them off the list.


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## bbravo (Sep 17, 2007)

I am not sure of the details of what you are needing subs for but I have really found that a lot of subs don't know how to bid. As a GC I pay a fair, market rate price for subs and I know what the job is worth and let them know it.


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## pehsa76 (Oct 5, 2010)

everybody experiences these problems occasionally i promise you your not alone-


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## NaeGan (Sep 8, 2009)

I thought I had found a reliable sub to do flooring. I had known him for several years and had done a couple floors for me. He started his own outfit about the same time I did so I wanted to give him any work I had for him. I had a bathroom that was 13'6" by 8'. It was completely gutted. I was going to pay him 225 to do it, because he could get it done in a flash and I could get the vanity and the toilet set and baseboards all down that day. He calls me the night before and says he wanted cash.  Are you kidding me? I just did the damn think myself. I don't think I'll be calling him again. From now on I'll just have the company that has been around for many years do it. Don't care anymore about him charging more.


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## MAD Renovations (Nov 18, 2007)

NaeGan said:


> I thought I had found a reliable sub to do flooring. I had known him for several years and had done a couple floors for me. He started his own outfit about the same time I did so I wanted to give him any work I had for him. I had a bathroom that was 13'6" by 8'. It was completely gutted. I was going to pay him 225 to do it, because he could get it done in a flash and I could get the vanity and the toilet set and baseboards all down that day. He calls me the night before and says he wanted cash.  Are you kidding me? I just did the damn think myself. I don't think I'll be calling him again. From now on I'll just have the company that has been around for many years do it. Don't care anymore about him charging more.


Did he think you were going to stiff him or just wanted to do it under the table?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

its all about the benjamins,what you think is good money may not be....those gutter guys are prima donnas anyway:w00t:


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## NaeGan (Sep 8, 2009)

He wanted to do it under the table. I don't want to pay his taxes for him. There's no way I was going to do that when I was giving him that much money for 2 hrs of work and have hassle with that.


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## Quality Remodel (Sep 7, 2010)

tomstruble said:


> its all about the benjamins,what you think is good money may not be....those gutter guys are prima donnas anyway:w00t:


I second that.


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## sigmolding (Oct 6, 2010)

I probably who have at least asked why the need for cash anyhow? he might have a legit reason for the cash. And just how much tax would you really have to come up with anyhow. maybe the guy was desperate for cash. Cash would have helped him and you would have had an installer for life.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

sigmolding said:


> I probably who have at least asked why the need for cash anyhow? he might have a legit reason for the cash. And just how much tax would you really have to come up with anyhow. maybe the guy was desperate for cash. Cash would have helped him and you would have had an installer for life.


From the standpoint of the flooring sub, cash/check doesn't make any difference. He can cash the check and not declare the income, just as he could with cash. OTOH, if the GC pays in cash, he has no paper trail to verify that business expense and has to pay taxes on that income. I suppose the GC could pay in cash, but make the flooring guy sign a receipt. At some point, these type of people become too much of a hassle to deal with, and it's time m to cut them loose. It doesn't matter if they are subs, employees, or clients.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

I been wondering about that also, when a HO tells me contractors come, give prices and never return.

The only theory I came up with, is that they have inner insecurity within them self, they give the price and HO agree and says go ahead...when they leave, they think " Am I cheaper then everyone else?"... "Will I screw myself on this job if I do it for this price?"..."Will they screw me after I am done?...etc.

Same goes when they give a price to the GC... "I must be the cheapest on the block"... "Why he wants me?"..."What happen to the previous guy?"...etc and they never show up...

I know a few guys who do this all the time, and when talking to a mutual friend...this will come out and someone will say "What happened to so &so, he was here game me the price, everything was cool and he never showed up" then you see this guy and you say I was just with so&so and he said you never showed up...the answer would be I got busy or I gave the price to cheap... Instead of being a stand up guy and go to the guy and explain instead of making him wait.

Another reason, some of this guys take on so much work and they give out the cheap prices just to get a foot in the door, so they're not in the rush to get to a customer whom they gave a lower price, they go after the bigger fish and keep someone smaller on the back burner to fill the gap.

Keep looking, you will find someone good and maybe you will pay a little more,but it will be well worthed... then chase these useless guys who cannot keep theirs word.

Good luck :thumbsup:


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## FreedomBuilders (Apr 18, 2010)

I thought the same thing on a few projects....normally I do most everything myself. Some things and for efficiency sake I won't do. Getting involved with some networking groups helps to establish rapport with some people/contractors you are not familiar with.


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## NaeGan (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks for the help Greg and Gough. I couldn't explain it better myself. I guess I looked at it this way. This job had several add-ons and change orders. I would loved to had gone to the homeowner and said "by the way, can you pay me cash? Your tax credit on those two windows doesn't amount to much." And when I sign that warranty for them at the end of the job and if something were to come up with that flooring, even though I know him, it is completely on me and if there is any disagreement about it, I'm stuck with the whole repair. It just doesn't seem right to me.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

This has been a problem since the first bid went out. Probably something to do with the table for the last supper or along those lines.

The old guy I began learning this trade from used very few subs for this reason. Through out my career I have known some incredible subs. They have shown up on a moments notice, week ends, holidays & the middle of the night. They are priceless. What will get you subs like this is, when you call their part is ready for them, you don't haggle price like it's trinkets in Mexico, question & discuss yes & you pay them when they perform. Sometimes even before. They will take care of you if you take care of them.:thumbsup:


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## user38755 (Jan 1, 2009)

Holla if you need a siding sub. We do much more but prefer the siding and custom metal work. Willing to bid to you so you know where we stand. Just wrapped up 220SQ steel roof R&R with Enduro fiberglass panels and swapped out 23 perlin over the last 4 weeks. Next up is siding homes at the state school and North of Farragut. 

Did you get Ryan on the gutters? I always have great results with him.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

griz said:


> This has been a problem since the first bid went out. Probably something to do with the table for the last supper or along those lines.
> 
> The old guy I began learning this trade from used very few subs for this reason. Through out my career I have known some incredible subs. They have shown up on a moments notice, week ends, holidays & the middle of the night. They are priceless. What will get you subs like this is, when you call their part is ready for them, you don't haggle price like it's trinkets in Mexico, question & discuss yes & you pay them when they perform. Sometimes even before. They will take care of you if you take care of them.:thumbsup:


This is part of a two-way street. I had three builders for whom we always did all of their painting/finishing. One retired, one became the local building inspector, and one started teaching at the local college. They made sure things were ready for us, made sure we were allowed to do our work without interference, backed us up with owners/architects, and paid promptly. We stopped doing new construction when they left the business. The remaining builders that we tried to work with peddled bids, stacked trades, and were generally slow to pay.


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