# Stair Help Needed.



## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Hello everyone, I'm a hardwood installer and I ran into a problem which I am having a tough time deciding what to do and how to do it.. I have a step that needs to be done and my carpenter would not go to the site for one tread.. Which leads me to do it on my own.

I posted some links to my problem on another forum and got some idea, but I need more idea... Please help if you can and any advice is appreciated.

Thank you

i53.tinypic.com/rh7lg4.jpg

i55.tinypic.com/10zak2v.jpg

i52.tinypic.com/2ekhf0y.jpg


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

flooringjoe said:


> Hello everyone, I'm a hardwood installer and I ran into a problem which I am having a tough time deciding what to do and how to do it.. I have a step that needs to be done and my carpenter would not go to the site for one tread.. Which leads me to do it on my own.
> 
> I posted some links to my problem on another forum and got some idea, but I need more idea... Please help if you can and any advice is appreciated.
> 
> ...


A tread? Aren't you a "flooring guy"? 
?
Looks like plywood. Not cut right or riser shimmed out to cover mess up of the floor. 
What new dewalt tool did you buy for this job?


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Craftsman Jay said:


> A tread? Aren't you a "flooring guy"?
> ?
> Looks like plywood. Not cut right or riser shimmed out to cover mess up of the floor. 
> What new dewalt tool did you buy for this job?


Look craftsman jay, I clearly said that my carpenter that I use for stair treads did not want to come out for the job unless I pay him for a minimum of 5 Treads. No way am I putting out that kind of money.

Thanks for responding.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

cant you just wrap the platform with mdf, then put a tread down. as for the upper portion cover that plywood with mdf and put a nosing on the upper floor


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

flooringjoe said:


> Look craftsman jay, I clearly said that my carpenter that I use for stair treads did not want to come out for the job unless I pay him for a minimum of 5 Treads.


No you didn't. Let's not start our relationship here with hostility. You're in a jam, seeking help to save a couple of bucks for work outside of your putative specialty.

As a new member who has so far gotten what he's paid for from those who know how to do that job, maybe you should re-think your approach here. :thumbsup:


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> No you didn't. Let's not start our relationship here with hostility. You're in a jam, seeking help to save a couple of bucks for work outside of your putative specialty.
> 
> As a new member who has so far gotten what he's paid for from those who know how to do that job, maybe you should re-think your approach here. :thumbsup:


I consistently sub out jobs like this to my carpenter all the time and I understand that this isn't something for me and don't plan on pursuing a career in carpentry. I do admit that I am in a tough situation and I honestly don't plan on paying my guy $800 + dollars for one tread which will make the total for one tread over 1000+ I pay him an average of $2300 to do 12-13 steps every time and no way am I putting out $800 in labor for one damn tread.

Thanks


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Judging from the step shown in the photos I think you should pay the carpenter his 800$. 

How much will it cost you when the homeowner has a slip/fall and breaks their nose?


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

woodworkbykirk said:


> cant you just wrap the platform with mdf, then put a tread down. as for the upper portion cover that plywood with mdf and put a nosing on the upper floor


Thank you Kirk,

That's very helpful info.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm not getting the pics....:sad: I wanna see....:laughing:


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## [email protected] (Jan 10, 2010)

Me to. I keep wondering what kind of hardwood installer isnt a carpenter that can do stairs? Seems thats hardwood 101.


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## [email protected] (Jan 10, 2010)

I found them. Who framed those up. I shouldnt even use the term frame.



























Tear that out and pay the guy whos competent to do the job :thumbsup:


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

ubenhad4 said:


> Me to. I keep wondering what kind of hardwood installer isnt a carpenter that can do stairs? Seems thats hardwood 101.


If all hardwood installer wanted to do stairs or did do stairs, wouldn't there be one less jobs for true carpenters? I rather stick to floors and my carpenter can do his thing.

I rather not do something I know I am not capable of, but $800 for one tread is just ridiculous.

Well so far so good.. Thanks for all the advice so far.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

for way less than $800 you can have a specialty mill glue up a tread and stain match.. 

Obviously, this was a classic leave the problem for the next sub type project.:laughing: Sucks man, but do it right.

Trim the step and riser to the kitchen.....have a tread made for the step, and replace the transition from the vinyl...........charge someone for the BS:thumbsup:


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

Either you are a crapy guy to work for or your carpenter is a jackass, I would swing by and take care of that for beer money, if I like you. If not I would charge a g.


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## Scribbles (Mar 10, 2009)

Wrap the bottom tread riser in mdf, glue a solid tread out of 5/4, put the returns and finish them, install second riser in mdf, install nosing. Install 171 or cove, stain and lacquer, paint mdf, done. Worth about 400 including finishing and materielas.


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Scribbles said:


> Either you are a crapy guy to work for or your carpenter is a jackass, I would swing by and take care of that for beer money, if I like you. If not I would charge a g.


I'm actually not a bad guy to work for. Everyone has their minimums and his just happens to be 5 treads and I like his work because every stairs I had him do always comes out perfect.

If anyone lives in Massachusetts and wants to take a look, feel free to pm me.


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Scribbles said:


> Wrap the bottom tread riser in mdf, glue a solid tread out of 5/4, put the returns and finish them, install second riser in mdf, install nosing. Install 171 or cove, stain and lacquer, paint mdf, done. Worth about 400 including finishing and materielas.


Thank you Scribbles, I knew there had to be at least one or two members that wouldn't mind giving some kind advice.


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

WNYcarpenter said:


> for way less than $800 you can have a specialty mill glue up a tread and stain match..
> 
> Obviously, this was a classic leave the problem for the next sub type project.:laughing: Sucks man, but do it right.
> 
> Trim the step and riser to the kitchen.....have a tread made for the step, and replace the transition from the vinyl...........charge someone for the BS:thumbsup:


Thank you as well WNYcarpenter! I appreciate the kind response.


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## LEVELBEST (Dec 28, 2006)

Well I'm not trying to be an ass, but any flooring guy(I would think) would either already know how to handle that or knows enough to look at some pictures and figure it out. Something smells fishy here.......


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

LEVELBEST said:


> Well I'm not trying to be an ass, but any flooring guy(I would think) would either already know how to handle that or knows enough to look at some pictures and figure it out. Something smells fishy here.......


As I stated, I do not touch anything other than installing hardwood floors. I have a guy that does all my custom mold work, stairs and trims. What is fishy about it?


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you all for your time, I will post an after picture once this is all over with.


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## Whatwood (Jan 26, 2011)

flooringjoe said:


> Thank you all for your time, I will post an after picture once this is all over with.


God speed


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

What ever that is in the picture its an abortion...:laughing: You lucky it's 5:30 in the morning, or you wouldn't like much what I have to say... so here is what you do, rip that monstrosity out. Cut back the tile and plywood or what ever flooring you got on top and install oak noising, make sure to put ears on the noising to make it nice. Build a new step and make sure you have the same rise height so HO won't take a dive. Stay back with the frame from the oak floor about 3/8" so the material you wrap the riser with, will go over the floor and give you a nice finish. Wrap the risers with oak and put a solid oak tread on top of the tread. Being in the flooring business, nobody should be telling you how to do this, my kid was doing this in 8 grade in wood-shop.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

flooringjoe said:


> Look craftsman jay, I clearly said that my carpenter that I use for stair treads did not want to come out for the job unless I pay him for a minimum of 5 Treads. No way am I putting out that kind of money.
> 
> Thanks for responding.


Joe,

I changed that from "you'd get more help if you did a real intro." then I changed it. The hardwood guy that I use for finishing could do anything with hardwood, including treads. So, you seemed like a HO. 
I didn't expect you to come back either. 

And just to clarify, you didn't say "should I rip this down and start over or what." or, I'm looking for some good paint for this. And you never answered my question. 


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

flooringjoe said:


> don't plan on pursuing a career in carpentry.
> 
> Thanks


Do you know what field hardwood floors falls into?
I'm on the fence on this one. But I have met "flooring guys" that were damn good at laying carpet, but sucked at tiling and hardwood.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

flooringjoe said:


> If all hardwood installer wanted to do stairs or did do stairs, wouldn't there be one less jobs for true carpenters? I rather stick to floors and my carpenter can do his thing.
> 
> I rather not do something I know I am not capable of, but $800 for one tread is just ridiculous.
> 
> Well so far so good.. Thanks for all the advice so far.


After looking at how simple that job would be & you're struggling with it, I don't think I'd want you to install my hardwood. :w00t:




Craftsman Jay said:


> Do you know what field hardwood floors falls into?
> I'm on the fence on this one. But I have met "flooring guys" that were damn good at laying carpet, but sucked at tiling and hardwood.



I'm just the opposite. I suck at carpet & tile, but do a hell of a job with hardood. Course, thats probably by design on my part, since I don't want anything to do with tile or carpet.


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## Aframe (Mar 24, 2008)

flooringjoe said:


> If anyone lives in Massachusetts and wants to take a look, feel free to pm me.


What part?

If you give your carpenter a good amount of work and he balks at taking care of this for you, might be time to shop around.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

I'd rip that thing out & build it properly. Is it the camera angle or are those rises all jacked up? If it's beyond your comfort level of finishing it off, I'd find another carpenter. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there that'd be happy to have the work. $800 is a ridiculous price for that job. If you happen to refer the rest of your carpentry work to someone else then that's his loss.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

.....


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Alright guys, is it that strange that I don't like to touch custom trims, molds, new stairs and treads? I rather stick to what I am good at, I worked for another company for years and they would always have someone to install new baseboards, treads and all that, the only thing I ever would do is rip out the old baseboard and put it back in after the floor installation is done. I never bothered asking anyone to teach me nor have any offered so I don't plan on messing around with a clients property without proper instruction from a professional like some of you..

After 10 years of working for the company I'm on my own and I still don't plan on doing that myself, especially stairs. I understand the circumstances and I don't care how easy it could be. I found out exactly how easy it is today but I still don't plan on doing it myself in the future.

I do know that the profession I am in is considered "carpentry" but seriously, I am just sticking with what I started doing 10 years ago and that's just installation of hardwood so call me a fake carpenter.

I did'n't mean to sound like an ass coming in here, I actually am a nice person to know and work for, I was just stuck in a situation where I had to get it done and over with without paying my former carpenter a ridiculous amount. 

I have a project 13 step with a few spindles coming up next week. Boston area carpenters place your bid if interested. We will be ripping up the carpet next week and would like the stairs to be worked on as soon as we are done with all the installations upstairs.

To some of you if I have offended, I apologize and for some of you who have tried to help. Thank you 

Here are the picture of the stairs that will be worked on.

i55.tinypic.com/33e7z4m.jpg

i53.tinypic.com/2z5kpqh.jpg


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Way to come back from the chop bustin we gave ya.

You really should learn to do some of the finish stuff, like stairs & trims. You're leaving a lot of money on the table that could & should be yours.


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## William James (Mar 5, 2010)

You didn't offend me . I apologize for giving you a hard-time. Just thought you were a HO or a run-and-gun. 

Welcome to the forum! 
Like You said Joe & Pin's comment, you're a finish carpenter leaving money on the table.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

How could you lay flooring and not know how to at least base and case? No way I don't believe it.


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## flooringjoe (Mar 10, 2011)

Metro M & L said:


> How could you lay flooring and not know how to at least base and case? No way I don't believe it.


Installing a standard baseboard is no problem, using a miter saw is a no brainer, its the custom work that requires more time and skill that I am not interested in. Doing installation and refinishing is enough work for me, I am good at it and actually enjoy it.

Yes, I know that is money on the table, but if you were a home owner what would you rather have? Someone who doesn't know what they are doing? Or someone that does? I rather have someone who knows exactly what they are doing when it comes to the custom work and pay him right.

I been working for myself for almost a year now and it sure as hell beats working for someone else and I am very happy of how much I am making working for myself instead of getting paid working for another so the extra money on the table can go to someone who does it right all the time.

Craftsman J - No apologies needed thank you, it feels good to be welcomed!

Pinwheel - The bustin I got was a part of this whole initiation that happens to everyone new here and not just me right?

Once again, thanks to all of you.


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

This is the flush 3" piece I mentioned










You could get creative with this, too. This is how your name spreads like wildfire. Otherwise, you're just another floor installer.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

flooringjoe said:


> Pinwheel - The bustin I got was a part of this whole initiation that happens to everyone new here and not just me right?
> 
> Once again, thanks to all of you.



You're sure not unique to being treated this way. :no: Helps us weed out the wanna be's & the DIYer's trying to peek behind the curtain.

Sounds like you're relatively new to the trades, so I guess you deserve some slack. None of us knew everything when we started, contrary to what a few of these guys will tell ya about themselves. :laughing:

Just curious, why the unwillingness to expand on your business? If you've got the discipline to do a great job on someones floor, you've got what it takes to be a good finish carpenter. Can't speak for everyone else, but I've not always been 100% satisfied with my finished products. That's what drives me to keep learning & trying to perfect what I do. After 15 years of it, I still pick on myself pretty hard even though my customers are very satisfied. Guess what I'm sayin, don't be scared to learn new things & get the rest of the money off the table.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

I would like to add a perspective that you may be over looking. 

You are still relatively new to the business and more importantly just starting out being a business owner. There will always be plenty of things for you to learn and grow into. On the technical side you should have the basic skills to perform the everyday tasks that your business is hired to do. Beyond those tasks are ones that can and should be subed out but you need the knowledge and experience to effectively supervise and manage them.

In short, your baseline of technical knowledge and skill will set the tone for the quality of work your company turns out. 

It seems like this small project has put a spot light on the area of your skill set that is begging for attention. With just basic carpentry knowledge you would have been able to move past this stair with little trouble. You may not enjoy it as much as you want but it would not have been a hurdle either.

There may come a time you will need to train someone to do a small trim job like this one. And relying on a sub for this type of thing will prove to be counter productive again the next time it comes up. 


I offer you this;

When you come across a road block that brings your wheels of progress to a halt, embrace it as the next learning opportunity that makes you a better contractor and business owner. 

And welcome our little electronic world, I hope you have fun here.


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