# Panic Room Door Lock ideas?



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I am working on a panic room door that I want to build, meaning the design, and ultimately, limited sale of units. 

The door design will utilize 3/4 inch thick T1 plate and a full steel frame, and the door will be in a "pocket" door configuration. Sliding to lock. Now the lock doesn't present a problem, strictly speaking, as it is a drop lock bar design, but what I am having trouble working around is the technology of either a simple key lock for entry from the outside, or would it be better to use an electronic key pad and battery operated unlocker? 

The basic idea is for the door to be in the pocket, and probably behind a bookcase, or hidden wall panel, and if a storm is coming, or home invasion, enter and trip or slide the door panel closed. Locks drop and all is good. The lock issue will arise with wanting to lock valuables in the safe room, or panic room, and being able to leave the home secured. Traditional gun safe doors work great, except they are not typically left open, and the locking mechanism is bulky. 

Thoughts anyone?


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Maglocks.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I like the maglocks....but, what if the power is cut? Or do you have a different model in mind?


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Joasis said:


> I like the maglocks....but, what if the power is cut? Or do you have a different model in mind?


You have a battery backup.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

The best setups use a single door access control controller and a separate maglock power supply. That way it constantly monitors the battery as well as tamper alarms should some one try to disable it.

The cheap setups use a generic power supply with battery backup and a generic keypad from Linear/Camden/RCI.

The only caveat you will have is getting the building inspector to pass them, you need a blue pull or other emergency disengage for the people inside.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I guess I was looking at the flat magnets used on the jambs. No power, no lock. But, I get the point about the mag lock being part of the say, locking bar, and then no power would be like a vault door, no entry. And...if I hit my target market, if a tornado is close, power typically goes out, so having the battery back-up is critical. Opening from the inside would be easy, just lift the locking bar and slide. Inside to out isn't the challenge, out to in is, and trying to keep the locking mechanism under 2 inches flat. 

I have the Schlage electronic locks on my home, and 5 years, not one battery ever replaced. They are dead bolts. I thought about using the electronic dead bolt, since if the code isn't right, meaning you enter the wrong code, the lock isn't engaged, so it cannot be "forced" open, but a key will still work. And that may be what I need to do.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Joasis said:


> I guess I was looking at the flat magnets used on the jambs. No power, no lock. But, I get the point about the mag lock being part of the say, locking bar, and then no power would be like a vault door, no entry. And...if I hit my target market, if a tornado is close, power typically goes out, so having the battery back-up is critical. Opening from the inside would be easy, just lift the locking bar and slide. Inside to out isn't the challenge, out to in is, and trying to keep the locking mechanism under 2 inches flat.
> 
> I have the Schlage electronic locks on my home, and 5 years, not one battery ever replaced. They are dead bolts. I thought about using the electronic dead bolt, since if the code isn't right, meaning you enter the wrong code, the lock isn't engaged, so it cannot be "forced" open, but a key will still work. And that may be what I need to do.


Schlage use cam separation, a solenoid engages the cam so you can rotate the lock. The batteries last forever because you are physically rotating the bolt. Maglocks are fail safe, they need power to stay locked. The beauty of maglocks is when properly installed they are secure as hell, cannot be shimmed, picked or bypassed and leave absolutely no slop in the door.

Is this for hurricanes or for home invasions or goods storage?

Got a pic of the door?


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't have a picture yet. 

So....can a Shlage electronic dead bolt be "picked" or defeated? Punched?


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

To answer your question, this is kind of the continuation of the idea of building secure rooms in homes, or room additions that would double as say, a den, or a man cave, or TV room. No windows, concrete cap, and secure. 

In Oklahoma, every Tom, Dick, and Harry installs precast safe-rooms, and obviously, the installers are busy cutting throats to win the bid, plus, after tornado season, sales drop. Not my deal because I do not build stand alone shelters except in special circumstances, or for other contractors, but in this day and age of heightened fear over home invasion, or burglary, or just wanting to have a room to display a gun collection, think I see a niche market, and face it, when you do stuff that others don't do, like my concrete construction, I have little competition, and pricing is not negotiable. Lots of guys can build ICF walls, but spanning concrete roofs is a little more demanding on skill. 

One of my clients I met at the IBS in Vegas allowed me to change their home design slightly to have the entire master suite as a safe room. We are installing a vault door behind a typical interior door. The door will stay open all the time, unless they chose to close it. The first question anyone would have is how is the building code complied with? It isn't, per say. No windows. But there will be a second point of egress.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Joasis said:


> I don't have a picture yet.
> 
> So....can a Shlage electronic dead bolt be "picked" or defeated? Punched?


I don't know of anyway personally, but often cam separated locks can be defeated by giving them a good wack and turning the bolt at the precise time. The older Kaba simplex locks you could put a magnet on the side to pull the cam into position then turn the handle.

They are easy to pick though...


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Inner10 said:


> I don't know of anyway personally, but often cam separated locks can be defeated by giving them a good wack and turning the bolt at the precise time. The older Kaba simplex locks you could put a magnet on the side to pull the cam into position then turn the handle.
> 
> They are easy to pick though...


My thinking is taking me to a way to "dead bolt" the drop locks on the door. I had not thought about someone with a magnet being able to "cam" a lock, but it makes sense. 

This is why I posted this, because I simply don't know. 

So if you pictured a door dead bolt needing to be turned to allow a handle to lift a drop bar, then the idea is locking out the dead bolt. 

Safe doors have "relockers", so if a lock is damaged, the door locks down and nothing gets in. Still thinking.


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Take a look here

http://www.idemsafety.com/_includes/docs/pdf/102523__KL3-SS_KL3-SS-RR_Data_Sheet_DEC_2013.pdf

Used to lock and to also signal that the door is locked, a manual egress release is available, and it maintains lock until solenoid is energized, so the power failure would be "Fail-Secure" mode.

These are similar to what is used on wheelchair lifts so you can't open the gate until the lift is at the correct level.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Joasis said:


> My thinking is taking me to a way to "dead bolt" the drop locks on the door. I had not thought about someone with a magnet being able to "cam" a lock, but it makes sense.
> 
> This is why I posted this, because I simply don't know.
> 
> ...


What's the purpose of the room, how secure do you need it and what does your local code require for people the exit the room?


----------



## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

What happened to the days you just stuffed your valuables under the mattress?


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Inner10 said:


> What's the purpose of the room, how secure do you need it and what does your local code require for people the exit the room?


You missed the purpose? How about a safe room with a living purpose? Why have a saferoom in a home that turns into a storage closet? 

Code doesn't address saferooms really, FEMA has guidelines, and they can't even agree on door swings. 

Egress.....think about it as an over size closet. 

The fight between the FEDS and the code inspectors was about whether a door could be blocked by debris from a storm. Then a few people drowned in Oklahoma going into their storm cellars...that made everyone take a deep breath, and one of my selling points to adding safe rooms in my home builds has always been that as we age, we do not want to go down stairs into a hole in the ground during a storm. 

The other issue to saferooms and designs was pretty much a moot point when the University of Texas tested the wall structures of saferooms, and accepted that even plywood reinforced walls could survive a tornado. 

My entire point and reason here is that sales of gun safes, and security safes is on the increase, and crime isn't going away, why not market the ultimate safe..one that will protect you and your valuables, and still be a usable space? Imagine a room 16 feet wide and 20 feet long that is your TV viewing room, or theater room....or den....and no need to own a gun safe, and if you were the victim of a home invasion, a place to go. Also good for storms. That is the idea. And a door system unlike any I have seen on the market, so I will design and build my own.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Joasis said:


> You missed the purpose? How about a safe room with a living purpose? Why have a saferoom in a home that turns into a storage closet?
> 
> Code doesn't address saferooms really, FEMA has guidelines, and they can't even agree on door swings.
> 
> ...


That was my question yes, do you need a door that will allow you fast entry and exit to let others in and instantly re-secure?


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Yes. The door design so far is the 3/4 plate 84 inches tall and 40 inches wide, weighing 700 lbs, or so, plus the locking bars, and frame components. All meant to slide into a pocket, rather then swing.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Joasis said:


> Yes. The door design so far is the 3/4 plate 84 inches tall and 40 inches wide, weighing 700 lbs, or so, plus the locking bars, and frame components. All meant to slide into a pocket, rather then swing.


If you want security build in a man trap aka airlock. That way you don't leave those inside unsecured when someone enters out exits.

Two lesser doors over one heavy duty door.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

:thumbsup:Now that is a bit over the top.


----------



## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> If you want security build in a man trap aka airlock. That way you don't leave those inside unsecured when someone enters out exits.
> 
> Two lesser doors over one heavy duty door.


My brother used to work for brinks he told me one night he and his partner entered the man trap and to get out the guy in the control booth unlocked the door, well this night the guy in the control booth feel asleep they were pissed off.


----------

