# Control Wiring....yet again



## ROCKAWAYJOHNNY (Jan 27, 2012)

Just looking to see if any other GC's go through this...

I was reviewing some bids from my subs this morning. Job is pretty small but for a good client. Once again...The HVAC contractor didn't include the control wiring and nor did the electrician. 

When I tried to marry the HVAC contractor to the scope of work, he insisted it was the electricians job...and vice versa. 

I understand that neither contractor wants the responsibility due to the "risk vs. reward" but it always comes down to me mandating that one of the contractors put it under their contract.

does anyone else go through this on a normal basis?


----------



## MSLiechty (Sep 13, 2010)

tell your HVAC subs to all include it so its apples to apples. Is it considered part of their scope of work? 
Its like light wires. Its not specifically part of the ceiling subs SOW But the electricians won't do it yet its attached to their fixtures.

ML


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Just 'cause they don't want to do it doesn't mean they should exclude it from their bid. If it's spec'd for the Tinknocker to do, the Tinknocker should bid it.


----------



## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Never had an issue during bid but i have been on several jobs where the HVAC guy or the GC asked me if i would wire in the dis-connect and wire in the appliance. I see no problem with it, it is extra work and often can be charged as a change order.:thumbsup:


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

No, its always the HVAC guys job.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

ROCKAWAYJOHNNY said:


> When I tried to marry the HVAC contractor to the scope of work, he insisted it was the electricians job...and vice versa.


So you're saying you asked for a bid including wiring, and he excluded wiring from his bid? Then he didn't bid the job you're offering.

I've never seen a HVAC guy omit control wiring from his scope of work. Can't vouch either way regarding electricians; I do that myself.


----------



## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Now i am going to throw this out and stir the pot, is this for a Union? :whistling 
I ask this because any self employed contractor would not normally turn down any work. Work is money, sunshine does not pay the bills man!

When on a job who grounds the water line, the plumber or the electrician?
Who grounds the NG/LP gas line, the gas guy or the electrician?
These are small tasks i normally do on a job and have never argued about, why stand around pointing fingers when there is an opportunity to make money. Like 480 stated if the job is spec'd for a particular contractor to bid then that contractor should bid it, otherwise step aside and let someone who wants to make a living get the job done.


----------



## ECSOWNER (Jul 25, 2011)

As I tell my electrician, if its got a jacketed cable run it. They wire the AC disconnect and doorbells, why not the control wire? From alarm, telephone, TV, HVAC, doorbell to the main service, I have one guy do it all and he is more than happy to make money doing it.


----------



## Trick1 (Dec 6, 2008)

I always include the control work in my scope...

Usually I engineer the control systems for my heating projects so I want to be the guy wiring it.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Another option is to hire another sub to do just the weenie wires..... telephone, CATV, intercom, doorbell, CAT 5, home theater, HVAC, garage doors, whole-house sound, fiber, alarms, etc.


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

we run into the same problem on commercial jobs for door operators, who wires the pushbuttons and the safety edge/photo eyes. it should be in conduit, so to me that makes it the electricians job


----------



## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Id leave control wiring for hvac stuff to the hvac to the installers and line voltage stuff to the electricians,that way if the hvac equipment ever has an issue down the road they know how it was installed. 
Having worked 3 of the major fields over the years,i know none of them think exactly the same about how things need to be done :laughing:


----------



## Doc Holliday (Jan 2, 2012)

Down here we, the hvac company, will do all wiring.

Up north I believe you have to have an electrician do the control wiring. I couldn't stand to let that happen, I enjoy and want to do both.


----------



## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

Our experience is the electricians are the wrong guys to run it.. we usually end up with only 4-conductors.

The HVAC guys should do it. They know what they need to make the system work. It's also a crapload easier to run a wire than it is to knock out tin.

Weenie wire? Ya.


----------



## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

GregS said:


> Our experience is the electricians are the wrong guys to run it.. we usually end up with only 4-conductors.
> 
> The HVAC guys should do it. They know what they need to make the system work. It's also a crapload easier to run a wire than it is to knock out tin.
> 
> Weenie wire? Ya.


:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## SemiRetiredEL (Nov 24, 2009)

GregS said:


> Our experience is the electricians are the wrong guys to run it.. we usually end up with only 4-conductors.
> 
> The HVAC guys should do it. They know what they need to make the system work. It's also a crapload easier to run a wire than it is to knock out tin.
> 
> Weenie wire? Ya.


HVAC control wiring is more than ropping on a smaller scale. If the number and size of conductors to the T-stat/humidistat aren't correct and in the proper spots everyone will suffer. Their education and certification is just as hard as an electricians.

I do cringe if an HVAC guy tries to run power to the components, disconnects etc. since he/she would usually be doing work which I would be liable for. Once the rock is up corrections can be costly.

Also, endless confusion and an electrical Code violation exist if the HVAC guys don't check the proper box on the air handler stating which strip heater was installed, since the cable size depends on it.

I always leave the feed in the proper enclosures but let the HVAC guys terminate and test the units, too much liability and no appreciation.
When these guidelines are followed we never have a problem.


Good Luck from Columbiana, Alabam
Maurice Turgeon, http://thesemi-retiredelectrician.com


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

GregS said:


> Our experience is the electricians are the wrong guys to run it.. we usually end up with only 4-conductors.


I was thinking the same thing. I have the utmost respect for the guys that are in the trade, but there is some stuff that electricians don't consider, don't care about, or simply just don't know. 

For instance in a case like this, it's the HVAC guys that know whether they need 2, 5, or 8 conductors.. and whether 18 AWG is required or if 20/22 is sufficient.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> I was thinking the same thing. I have the utmost respect for the guys that are in the trade, but there is some stuff that electricians don't consider, don't care about, or simply just don't know.


Like running 2 conductor to a single speaker in a room? :laughing:


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

> Like running 2 conductor to a single speaker in a room?


Yeah.. that really irks me! I have a client that has a $1.5M house with a single speaker in each room running off of a 70V daisy chained system.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Yeah.. that really irks me! I have a client that has a $1.5M house with a single speaker in each room running off of a 70V daisy chained system.


Wowzers! I haven't done a 70/100V in a while...I always thought it was exclusive to shopping malls and drive-in movie theaters.


----------



## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> Wowzers! I haven't done a 70/100V in a while...I always thought it was exclusive to shopping malls and drive-in movie theaters.


Shoot, i'm not even in that industry anymore and I though it was never used in resi, much less used in resi recently...


----------



## BJWIRE (Feb 3, 2012)

From my perspective it is mostly the Electricians doing the control wiring. Almost never an HVAC guy. The only place I see a lot of HVAC guys doing the control work is Florida.


----------

