# A good qualifier and estimate "trick"



## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

don't say i never contributed here ...

There is a thread on here about "what to do with price shoppers" - and that spawned/inspired this

I hate being price shopped. It offends me actually. In just the several years I've been in business - I've grown very tired of these type of people.

So I've kinda developed an answer to the gentleman's question "what to do with price shoppers?"

The short answer - is not to work for them. Now here's the "long answer"



I shouldn't have to go into discussing the various characteristics of the Price Shopper. But I think we can all agree that they're typically nimrods to begin with. They have absolutely no clue about anything regarding construction - no matter what they say. 

The Price Shopper doesn't understand what you're talking about when you start talking "quality" or "customer service" - they just want to know what it costs. Plain and simple. Sometimes - they may ask you (in haste) to "cut to the chase: how much is it??"

The husbands are generally goofy looking pansies ... though for some reason - they generally have pretty smokin wives sitting next to them at the kitchen table. Do not let either of them talk out loud about having to "work hard" - chances are they haven't ever had to spend a day doing manual labor 

_--- (and no, sorry - carrying bags of mulch, that was purchased from Home Depot, around the yard does not count as "manual labor") ---_

At any rate ... what do you do with them???







well, one, you can charge for your estimates. Due to a bunch of idiots driving around in vans with signs saying "FREE ESTIMATES" - it will be difficult (though not impossible) to break from this mold. 

Here's something Ive been doing recently (since about early summer) - and it works




At the first meeting, I won't bring up the price. Not even a ballpark. If they ask "how much does it cost?" - that is a strike against them. Even if they haven't displayed other signs of being the Price Shopper, or a PITA - this is still a strike against them.

If there are obvious signs that they probably cannot afford me (had one couple who was living in the basement of the wife's parents) - i might shoot out a ballpark just so they might catch a clue as to why I am going to leave their house in the next 2 minutes :laughing:


But I won't bring up pricing. In fact - I let them ask me for an estimate. And then I say "give me a week"



So a week goes by. Depending on how that first meeting went - and what sort of impression I got from them - I will call them and say "Mrs. Johnson, this is Dirt with Diggler Construction, Inc. and I have your proposal ready"

"Oh good - when can you come over?"


Now ... here's the thing. I haven't even done the estimate yet. I may have started it - if anything for my own amusement. But it is not finalized and "presentable" yet.

"How does [next week] sound?" 

"Great"

now - this phone call is more or less a glorified "follow up" - it is a precious indicator of the level of interest that this prospect has in me. I guage the tone in voice, are they happy to hear from me?? Excited even?? Or are they like "oh, yeah um" - ..... it will say a lot. If I get good vibes - I'll set up an appointment.


And now I've bought myself one week to actually do the proposal.





This method allows time to do a really in-depth proposal. Ever just "knew" that you were wasting time - and still spent an evening doing an estimate??? You shouldn't have this feeling. You'll know after that phone call.

Granted - doesn't mean you "have the job" - but it won't feel like such a crapshoot. Or as much as one.


Here's one little gem:


*Stay away from someone who says "yeah - just fax it to me"*

9 times out of 10 - they're price shopping. Or they're not totally serious about you and your only chance of working on their project is is become the lowest bidder. And you don't want that, right?



Point of it all: stay away from the Price Shopper. Learn their characteristics, buzz words and any other signs. They must all come from the same DNA - because many of them are so alike. Pay attention to _them_ in the first meeting with a prospect. 

So many of us, I'm sure, are in such a hurry to get a job - that we'll just start talking about how great our companies are, we do this, that and oh you'll just love us!!!


But how many of you use that first meeting to actually get an idea of the type of personality who is sitting across that kitchen table?? *How about letting them sell themselves to YOU for a change??*


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

Price shoppers do suck but I couldnt stay in business without them. I try to take every estimate seriously and land them all. There have been many times ive shown up at jobs and thought "theres no way they can afford this" but next thing you know im I have a contract signed. I offer competitive rates and try to sell myself along with the product.

It does suck spending evenings drawing up designs and going over materials etc. when you know your probably not going to get the job.

With price shoppers I will sometimes give a ballbark to gauge the look on their face and adjust my effort from that.


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

"well, one, you can charge for your estimates. Due to a bunch of idiots driving around in vans with signs saying "FREE ESTIMATES" - it will be difficult (though not impossible) to break from this mold." Dirt Diggler 

I'm not sure if this equates or not but since last year we go nowhere for free. $59.00 is our normal service charge which gets us to your home looks at the problem quotes you an exact price to take care of it. If you decline you owe us $59.00 if you authorize the work we do not "apply the $59.00 to your bill". 
Now granted, we are a service plumbing company with an average ticket price of around $600 so that $59.00 has more of an impact on us than say a 5k - 100k remodel or addition project. We do however account for about 10% of our revenue through remodel projects. We instituted the service charge last year but not for remodels. I finally got fed up with wasting my time and losing business because I was tied up fooling around with some dreamer and could'nt get to a paying call fast enough. So earlier this year I decided that if it meant that we never did another remodel project again we were not going ANYWHERE for free. We kept the same $59.00 service charge which still does not begin to cover the extra time involved but did mean that we would not be invited to someones home who was not serious or was simply interested in rounding up 3-6 bids in search of the lowest one. In fact if someone mentions having talked to other plumbing companies we gracefully decline to participate in their process. Well I was prepared for and fully expected that we would be getting out of the remodel business but to my astonishment it simply has not been the case. Now it's true that a lot of times when were on the phone and we get to the part about the sc the conversation is over but that's ok because our productivity is up because the time, energy, fuel, etc. that we had been wasting on dead ends is spent doing actual work. There does not seem to have been a significant drop in our remodeling revenue. Maybe this is because we no longer feel compelled to compete on price for this type of work because we have a level of confidence that the potentiel client is serious about the work since they paid the sc to get us out there. $59.00 is not that much to pay to have someone look at this type of work but it is exactly $59.00 more than what the price shopper is willing to pay.


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## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

wow


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

curapa said:


> Price shoppers do suck but I couldnt stay in business without them. .



maybe you bring up a good point ... what works for Harry won't work for LeRoy


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Maybe that's part of my problem, a blatant pricer and I lose interest pretty quick, but somebody who has some of the traits I tend to forgive them too easily, part of the interest in all this is the challenge and the fun of sales so I tend to probably deal with some of these people who I shouldn't, but it does give me some fun stories to post in the private section.:laughing:


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## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

What does PITA stand for?:huh:


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

PARA1 said:


> What does PITA stand for?:huh:


Pain In The Arse


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Pain in the arse . . .

(edited)

uh-oh, - - echo . . . :whistling


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Bet you know whiskey tango foxtrot :laughing:


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

I tend to try and turn the process into a "who's interviewing who here"??

Meaning my attitude is, - - "not only am I going to be more expensive, - - I'm not all that positive I can even fit you into my schedule"!!

"Let me get back to you" . . . :shifty:


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Tom R said:


> I tend to try and turn the process into a "who's interviewing who here"??
> 
> Meaning my attitude is, - - "not only am I going to be more expensive, - - I'm not all that positive I can even fit you into my schedule"!!
> 
> "Let me get back to you" . . . :shifty:


"Taking the offer off of the table" actually works for some people if they don't come across the wrong way.


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## curapa (Oct 8, 2007)

> but it does give me some fun stories to post in the private section.


What is this "private section" you speak of?


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

curapa said:


> What is this "private section" you speak of?


938 post from now you will find it.


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

Every general contractor I've ever met was a price shopper.


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## deckman22 (Oct 20, 2007)

I too am tired of the "price shopper". I try to feel people out on the phone. I ask them how soon do they need this job done, then tell them I'm pretty busy now so I might not be able to get to them right away. If this doesn't bother them I'll make an appointment to stop out. If they ask for a "ball park figure" I tell them I can't do that without looking at the job first. Another good thing to ask is if they have a clear cut idea of what they want. It they say no I'm just looking for ideas to figure out if I can afford it. I then tell them call me back when they figure out what they want or call an architech or landscape designer unless they want to pay me for design help as I don't do that free.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

A different point of view on Price shoppers....

I will most always take the time to put myself in the customers positions for at least a few moments to try to feel their perspective. Some people are just cheap....I will walk as soon as I see this trait. But many have had a bad experience, or have heard stories of bad experiences, that may make them a little cautious. Many people have it engrained in their heads that plumbers are all overpriced, remodeling contractors are never going to do work without hitting you up for extra money in the middle of the project...etc.

2 weeks ago, I was looking at a kitchen remodel, and the owner of the house was showing me the newly refinished oak floors in his family room. He hired a van full of Viet Namese floor finishers because his cousin told him that if you hire a "white" crew, they will "Rip you off". Ironically, the job sucked, bubbles, and little nuggets of hardened poly throughout the floor, but they think it is great, and that they shopped wisely. I had a hard time not offering my opinion on his cousins comments, but that was not my battle.

I'd love to see Myth-Busters do a piece on debunking myths about hiring contractors. How many times do we speak with a homeowner that says they need 3 bids, or better yet, the one about get 3 bids, throw away the highest, and lowest bid, and whats left is your best contractor.

I think many look at price because that is the only angle that they are comfortable comparing. The time required to learn the mentality of the potential customer, and then educate them on how to make an informed decision is worth the time.


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## aWorkaHolic (Oct 1, 2007)

L. B. Condulet said:


> Every general contractor I've ever met was a price shopper.


Yes that is true but!!

We are not like HO's. We look at all estimates and make sure everyone is on the same page -Apples to Apples-.:thumbsup:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Pearce Services said:


> I think many look at price because that is the only angle that they are comfortable comparing. The time required to learn the mentality of the potential customer, and then educate them on how to make an informed decision is worth the time.


I think many look at price because logically there is no reason *not* to. I'll throw out some broad generalizations:

Most contractors don't listen to customers, they don't ask customers questions, they don't address their specific needs and concerns. Most contractors don't sell their company (cause most contractors think selling is a dirty word), most contractors don't sell the customer why they should pick them over the competition (because they think that's dirty too) most customers say here is my price they scribble out something in 2 senctences if it's simple and 5 if it's complex. Most contractors think that they 'bond' with customers and that's their greatest asset. I get to know my customers, I ask them about the picture on the wall, I pet their dog, I talk about hunting, so that sets me apart from my competition.

Many customers after 3 contractors have nothing but 3 different varrying prices and no reason to believe there is any difference between the outcome no matter who they choose. 

So left in this situation what should they do?


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

Tom R said:


> I tend to try and turn the process into a "who's interviewing who here"??
> 
> Meaning my attitude is, - - "not only am I going to be more expensive, - - I'm not all that positive I can even fit you into my schedule"!!
> 
> "Let me get back to you" . . . :shifty:


:thumbsup:


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

MattCoops said:


> A free consultation but a charged estimate.
> Seems to me like a hidden fee, or at the least something to turn off a potential customer.


was thinking the same thing


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## BreyerConstruct (May 22, 2006)

MattCoops said:


> A free consultation but a charged estimate.
> Seems to me like a hidden fee, or at the least something to turn off a potential customer.


Hmm, I see what you're saying. I'll think it thru some more- it might be able to be spelled out on our website better. 
Thanks for the feedback!

~Matt


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Yeah, I'm continually being sued for bait and switch over it. Had 80 people so far swear at me and hang up, 50 call the attorney general on us for hidden fees...

I love how things that have no bearing in reality become issues of contention and debate in the bizzaro land of the Internet, sometimes I really tend to wonder just how many people on contractor talk actual are really in business.


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## Brian (Jun 9, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> I love how things that have no bearing in reality become issues of contention and debate in the bizzaro land of the Internet, sometimes I really tend to wonder just how many people on contractor talk actual are really in business.


Such people don't look at reality. They take 2 premises and never bother to examine whether either is true. They then start drawing inferences from those premises. Their "logic" is valid, but their premises (or at least 1) aren't true. So they wind up with a false conclusion and believe they have proven their point. In truth, they live in a fantasy land.

In contrast are those who draw all of their premises from reality, and then continually check those premises as well as their conclusions by again looking at reality. As examples: Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and at least in this context, Mike Finley.

Brian Phillips


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Brian said:


> Such people don't look at reality. They take 2 premises and never bother to examine whether either is true. They then start drawing inferences from those premises. Their "logic" is valid, but their premises (or at least 1) aren't true. So they wind up with a false conclusion and believe they have proven their point. In truth, they live in a fantasy land.


You said it better than I could Brian. Very good analysis.:thumbsup:

I just want to say that I don't mean to insult anybody, but Christ I'm continually floored by some of this stuff, and 9 times out of 10 I try to be good and just move on, but sometimes it's so bizarre I have to respond.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

BreyerConstruct said:


> We're in the process of removing all of the "free estimate" wording from our advertising, and moving to "Free Consultation".
> 
> I'm OK with feeling someone out on the phone, and taking the appointment if it seems like a potential project & personality fit for us. However, I'd like to do the initial meeting for free, than after I know who they are & what they want, let them know there will be a design fee, (which will be based on the complexity of the project).
> 
> ...





MattCoops said:


> A free consultation but a charged estimate.
> Seems to me like a hidden fee, or at the least something to turn off a potential customer.





Bone Saw said:


> was thinking the same thing





BreyerConstruct said:


> Hmm, I see what you're saying. I'll think it thru some more- it might be able to be spelled out on our website better.
> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> ~Matt






Mike Finley said:


> Yeah, I'm continually being sued for bait and switch over it. Had 80 people so far swear at me and hang up, 50 call the attorney general on us for hidden fees...
> 
> I love how things that have no bearing in reality become issues of contention and debate in the bizzaro land of the Internet, sometimes I really tend to wonder just how many people on contractor talk actual are really in business.


This is groung control to major mike:blink:


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## 1baltic (Oct 4, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Yeah, I'm continually being sued for bait and switch over it. Had 80 people so far swear at me and hang up, 50 call the attorney general on us for hidden fees...
> 
> I love how things that have no bearing in reality become issues of contention and debate in the bizzaro land of the Internet, sometimes I really tend to wonder just how many people on contractor talk actual are really in business.



What marketing do You run, Mike? Yellow pages, newspaper adds, flyers? I guess You do not have to purchase internet leads. It would be strange - to pay money for a lead and to ask for money for the estimate.
I think charging for the estimate is a great idea. For everyone who can afford that. Free phone consultation sounds like a good compromise.


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