# Paint walls than install trim?



## Birdland Bldrs (Aug 9, 2015)

I'm curious on what's everyone's method on which step they take first. What does a professional painter prefer, for a contractor to finish drywall, install doors, trim and then paint or finish drywall, prime, paint walls, install doors, and trim then paint the trim? We usually install everything and have painter come in and do the walls and trim in the same mobilization.


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## dutchroots (Nov 20, 2012)

It might be different depending on what part of the country you're in. Here in West Michigan it is standard in new construction for the drywall to get primed, then all the trim goes on - window casing, baseboards, doors hung and cased, cabinets installed, etc - and then the painter comes in and does everything.

I know we've run into people coming in from Chicago that wanted to do it the other way around - paint all the trim before it went up. Being a trim carpenter, I hate that.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Depends, I prefer to install stained trim after there walls are painted. 

Tom


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Install everything then paint all wood then mask and backfill and paint walls imo is the most professional. Although on water damage and the like, I'll reinstall painted trim then caulk with create a color and it looks just as professional (in their eyes)


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

illbuildit.dd said:


> Install everything then paint all wood then mask and backfill and paint walls imo is the most professional. Although on water damage and the like, I'll reinstall painted trim then caulk with create a color and it looks just as professional (in their eyes)


Actually doing the trim first is the easier, amateur method, doing the trim last is the professional more skilled method.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

If I'm subbing the painting, we just get everything up and let them figure it out - I really don't care how they do it as long as it looks nice. If we're doing it, then it depends on who I have on the job and on the trim itself. Often, though, walls get painted, trim sprayed before installed, trim gets installed, then touchup.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

avenge said:


> Actually doing the trim first is the easier, amateur method, doing the trim last is the professional more skilled method.


I can do it all. And it all looks right. The most skilled painters I Know prefer walls last with Masking tape Making Straight lines. Not that any of it is wrong.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Im doing it this week on a small 2 color scheme. I am going to roll the walls prior to doing the trim and the trim will have one coat prior to install. Then putty and second coat done.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

And all prefilling of nail holes always looks better when done before paint. If you want perfect results that is.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

illbuildit.dd said:


> I can do it all. And it all looks right. The most skilled painters I Know prefer walls last with Masking tape Making Straight lines. Not that any of it is wrong.


Must be regional - masking tape to get clean cut lines would be low-mid skill around here.

Answer for the OP - painters in this area do it all different ways.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

If my painter pulled out masking tape to cut a straight line that would be his last job.

Hell, I can a straight line without it, so should they.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

I like to install everything except base board. I will have the painter (me most of the time) put a coat of paint on the base while they are painting everything else. Then install the base board on top of the finish flooring. Then finish painting the base installed. 

Side note about masking tape. I agree that a painter should not need masking tape if they are painting by hand. IMO, masking tape should be for spraying or taping off your plastic to catch any drips that may occur.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I think one thing everyone could agree on is stain grade trim goes on after walls are painted...

OTOH, probably someone doesn't do it that way.:laughing:


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

It's about 50/50 here. Bottom line is to do whatever fits the situation and keep it efficient and clean. In other words, the fastest way. Masking and backfill prior to paint to me has always been fast and extremely clean. Touch ups can fail or they can be perfect. 
Like I said, if a professional is doing it, then it doesn't matter how you do it. I am a professional, and I can do it either way and save time and money in the process. For anyone to think otherwise is probably losing money somewhere


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

hdavis said:


> I think one thing everyone could agree on is stain grade trim goes on after walls are painted...
> 
> OTOH, probably someone doesn't do it that way.:laughing:


Perfect example of the easiest way


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I've experimented quite a bit with different orders and concluded over and over again that it's best to:

prime
spray and back-roll ceiling
install trim
caulk and putty trim
two coats sprayed on trim. No masking.
roll walls
cut walls twice
roll walls

This way the nail holes get two coats and truly disappear. The caulk gets 2 coats (4 on half of it) so it doesn't get dirty over the years.

Installing first and touching up is only slightly faster if at all (depending on if you caulk trim to walls) and never looks as good.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Golden view said:


> I've experimented quite a bit with different orders and concluded over and over again that it's best to:
> 
> prime
> spray and back-roll ceiling
> ...


That's a great method. Thats part of my point as well is the finished product appearance


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

hdavis said:


> Must be regional - masking tape to get clean cut lines would be low-mid skill around here.
> 
> Answer for the OP - painters in this area do it all different ways.


That's one of the things I love about this site. Learning what's going on around the world. Even after 25 + years doing this stuff, I never quit learning


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I just can't wrap my head around taping the cut being faster, cheaper or more profitable.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I just can't wrap my head around taping the cut being faster, cheaper or more profitable.


Neither can I. Maybe if it needs 3 coats?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Golden view said:


> Neither can I. Maybe if it needs 3 coats?


I could still two coat the cut before they are finished taping the trim.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

hdavis said:


> I think one thing everyone could agree on is stain grade trim goes on after walls are painted...
> 
> OTOH, probably someone doesn't do it that way.:laughing:


Back when I was on the wholesale side of the business, I occasionally had to visit new construction homes to drop off shutters or something while the interior work was going on.

I had one high end builder who did mostly stain grade moldings. His painters would prime everything and finish the ceilings before doors and trim. Then the trim carpenters would come in and hang the doors, crown, base, casing and stair parts. 

Next his painters would using wool like mittens went around dipping their hands in a small bucket of stain and stain everything. The first guy would flood the wood with stain, and the other one was about 20 minutes behind him wiping it off. and making it consistent. It was like poetry in motion watching those two work.

They would then come back the next day and spray lacquer all the trim (although they DID do the doors in the garage) with two coats and come back the following days and hand cut and roll the walls.

It was kind of cool watching that progression.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

We don't mask for baseboard or hardly any trim, either. But we do use plenty of plastic + tape on occasion in all sorts of ways.

I just looked at a condo where they apparently had masked the baseboards and it was beyond perfect. I was scratching my head on seeing it, but have to give them a hand. It was just absolutely straight across the walls, like somebody snapped a line, so I doubt it was freehand. Had a certain tape look, and not a DIY tape look. To each his own.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I think you younger guys seem to forget painting the trim last was how it was done. Everything freehanded and yes perfectly straight lines. I still do most of my trim the same way today,

I can usually tell if the walls were done last, if it was sprayed or masked.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

avenge said:


> I think you younger guys seem to forget painting the trim last was how it was done. Everything freehanded and yes perfectly straight lines. I still do most of my trim the same way today,
> 
> I can usually tell if the walls were done last, if it was sprayed or masked.


So much easier to cut walls than trim though. Seems to achieve the same result. Spray trim (overspray walls), cut walls.


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## Dave in Pa (Oct 10, 2009)

CarpenterSFO said:


> If we're doing it, then it depends on who I have on the job and on the trim itself. Often, though, walls get painted, trim sprayed before installed, trim gets installed, then touchup.


I got a question for you? Does some of your workers do better than others, and IF you spray the trim, how do you putty the holes, and "touch it up" ? With what to match the sprayed finish? A BRUSH!

In my opinion here, I am NOT a painter, but our method. Drywall, sand, prime, 1 coat of finish paint, trim, clean, caulk, (if needed for painted trim), the final coat of paint, out the door! 

There is NO way that in my opinion that any painter needs tape to do job, for a STRAIGHT LINE! And for the spray thing, let me think here, take 4 days to tape, X amount of materials, NO way to touch it up, without looking like chit, 30 minutes to SPRAY IT OUT, I am fast! LOL

Just my 2 cents here! Ya NEVER seen the "old timers do that!" and they made a GOOD LIVING!


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Golden view said:


> So much easier to cut walls than trim though. Seems to achieve the same result. Spray trim (overspray walls), cut walls.



I agree. We did the almost the exact method you described in your previous post on a whole house remodel we are on right now. Not a complete gut but plenty of new trim was installed.

Sprayed primer on new drywall first. Then sprayed ceilings and closets. Installed trim, caulk and putty.

Sprayed all the trim except crown, and inside closets (already have painted walls), and then brush and roll two coats on the walls.

We can cut walls really fast, brushing trim, not as much. We all prefer to spray trim when possible. But we don't come back and mask trim and spray walls or mask walls and spray trim. Just doesn't seem worth it at all.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

MarkJames said:


> We don't mask for baseboard or hardly any trim, either. But we do use plenty of plastic + tape on occasion in all sorts of ways.
> 
> I just looked at a condo where they apparently had masked the baseboards and it was beyond perfect. I was scratching my head on seeing it, but have to give them a hand. It was just absolutely straight across the walls, like somebody snapped a line, so I doubt it was freehand. Had a certain tape look, and not a DIY tape look. To each his own.


I'll take some pics of a job we recently did in this manner. When I learned to paint 20 something years ago I was taught the method you speak of by a guy who was and still is a master painter and has always had people wait a year for him. And when you get use to it, it's fast and perfect. 

I've also learned every other method under the sun. I'm not going to defend any one method, nor will I say I'm faster or better than anyone without seeing first hand that I am or not.

Same job, in one of the rooms, we painted trim and applied, then caulked with create a color. It looked good too


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

This procedure is for low to mid grade construction, high end stuff would vary. I prime the walls and finish coat the finished ceilings. Prime the trim prior to install and 1 finish coat on shoe moldings that go over hardwood, tile etc. Trim goes on and then I finish the trim then do the walls.

I tape baseboard for 3 reasons, it stops roller spray, makes for a cleaner line and IMO saves times. I didn't mask base in cookie cutter sub divisions. I can mask an average room in 5 minutes and pull in less then 2.

In a perfect world all walls would be dead nuts straight, the tape and trim job perfect as well which would make for minimal gaps to caulk. In the real world you can have no gap to over 3/16 down a wall, with there being no definitive line (corner) to follow tape makes sense to me.

As far as doing the trim last I would like to see the cut of a door/window frame that is 3" from a wall that has not been masked to see how professional it looks. Such as this.


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## dutchroots (Nov 20, 2012)

Just don't do it after carpet.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Golden view said:


> So much easier to cut walls than trim though. Seems to achieve the same result. Spray trim (overspray walls), cut walls.


It depends if it's done properly, many times the wall cut line isn't brought close enough to the trim or corners aren't cut in sharply. I did trim after walls daily for 10 years so I'm used to it and I get a more precise cut line. I'm not saying it's easy, many times you only have an 1/8" lip on the top of base or the bottom of crown. I actually find it awkward cutting in walls after trim.

I'm talking about brushing freehand not spraying or masking.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

carzie said:


> This procedure is for low to mid grade construction, high end stuff would vary. I prime the walls and finish coat the finished ceilings. Prime the trim prior to install and 1 finish coat on shoe moldings that go over hardwood, tile etc. Trim goes on and then I finish the trim then do the walls.
> 
> I tape baseboard for 3 reasons, it stops roller spray, makes for a cleaner line and IMO saves times. I didn't mask base in cookie cutter sub divisions. I can mask an average room in 5 minutes and pull in less then 2.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

illbuildit.dd said:


> I'll take some pics of a job we recently did in this manner. When I learned to paint 20 something years ago I was taught the method you speak of by a guy who was and still is a master painter and has always had people wait a year for him. And when you get use to it, it's fast and perfect.
> 
> I've also learned every other method under the sun. I'm not going to defend any one method, nor will I say I'm faster or better than anyone without seeing first hand that I am or not.
> 
> Same job, in one of the rooms, we painted trim and applied, then caulked with create a color. It looked good too


Great, but I would also be interested in the total time involved. Hard for me to wrap my head around that, too. Is this method for base, casings everything? Also, is the tape pulling up any fresh paint off the base as you remove it? Which tape? Frog, blue, plain stuff?


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Only blue or frog. The house we just did didn't have one single flake of paint pull off. And like carzie said, an average room can be masked in 5 minutes and pulled in two. And the look is extremely professional. The only thing i use plain tape for is plastic or paper to anything that is not a painted surface


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

MarkJames said:


> Great, but I would also be interested in the total time involved. Hard for me to wrap my head around that, too. Is this method for base, casings everything? Also, is the tape pulling up any fresh paint off the base as you remove it? Which tape? Frog, blue, plain stuff?


 I only tape base, or casing if I can't get a 1" brush down the side of it without making a mess of the casing. 

I use the blue, mid tack. If you mask sooner then 24 hours after the base has been painted be prepared to touch up.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

tjbnwi said:


> Depends, I prefer to install stained trim after there walls are painted.
> 
> Tom






hdavis said:


> I think one thing everyone could agree on is stain grade trim goes on after walls are painted...
> 
> 
> 
> OTOH, probably someone doesn't do it that way.:laughing:



It would be about impossible to do higher end homes with prestained trim. Getting good joints on arched casing and such would be impossible and it would be very difficult to prestain more custom details. 

Painters just got this floor done on my current job. Walls were primed and trim was installed raw. They stained trim, sprayed trim, painted walls.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

It depends............ :whistling


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

Spencer said:


> It would be about impossible to do higher end homes with prestained trim. Getting good joints on arched casing and such would be impossible and it would be very difficult to prestain more custom details.
> 
> Painters just got this floor done on my current job. Walls were primed and trim was installed raw. They stained trim, sprayed trim, painted walls.


 Nice looking job. I agree, on low end work you can touch up the cuts with stain fill nail holes with a putty that is real close to the color but in the end you will still see flashes of putty and mars if you go this route. You better be able to cut the other way though.

Too bad you installed the crown upside down in the painted rooms:jester:


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

I install the crown same as he did...


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

I went by the job and pulled some tape from the baseboards and took a video but I can't get it to load so I put it on youtube and it comes up but wont play for me. First video I ever put on youtube


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