# FISHER homes raid



## asbestos (Mar 22, 2006)

People talk about illegals like they are felons or molesters or something. These people are just tring to provide for their families. How many people here in the course of their business have NEVER violated the law? I am sure everyone here pays *All* their taxes and makes sure there are no false deductions or unclaimed income (including use tax on online purchases) gets every permit every time it is required, obeys every OSHA reg every time, and obeys every other law and regulation to the 'T'
I'll bet you just skirt a few once or twice because 'you gotta make a living' or 'the government gets enough taxes from me anyway' 
I don't think it is labor that causes the US to lose out on jobs. GM and ford send jobs to mexico and Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and now Hyundai open plants here. 

We need to crack down on the companies that hire these people. and the companies that hire the companies that hire these guys (Wal mart a while back had a janitorial contract with a company that had huge amounts of illegals)
It is the companies that pay $4.00 that are unfairly competing with us and also the insurance companies that feed that demand.


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## RYANINMICHIGAN (Dec 9, 2005)

I agree we should hold companies accountable that KNOWINGLY hire illegals. But your first statement is incorrect. They are FELONS and should be treated as such.


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## asbestos (Mar 22, 2006)

RYANINMICHIGAN said:


> I agree we should hold companies accountable that KNOWINGLY hire illegals. But your first statement is incorrect. They are FELONS and should be treated as such.



Entering the US without permission is not a felony. Smuggling others is. To suggest that they should be treated the same as people who intentionaly hurt others makes no sense. As far as 'knowingly' hiring- someone either has documentaion that checks out, or they don't. I prefer to go after companies that seek to disrupt the job market by lowballing because they can exploit illegals, then the guy who commited the 'crime' to come here and look for work.You seem to be putting a very small burden on companies to check out their people
They need to do due dilligence. They have the time and resources to do this.


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## snapper21 (Mar 13, 2006)

by William Gheen
President of Americans for Legal Immigration PAC ALIPAC
3/16/2006

Illegal immigration in the United States, can never be fully stopped; however it can be reversed. We can greatly reduce the number of aliens that attempt to enter America illegally, by reversing this flow with remedies that already exist in United States Law. There is a large consensus of support from the American citizenry for the implementation of these remedies to illegal immigration.

Topics: illegal immigration, Guest Worker Program, amnesty, Congress, Senate, legislation, laws, Americans, security

Unfortunately, there is a state of non-enforcement of laws , made possible by politicians, greedy corporations, and racially motivated industries that represent less than 10% of the US population, yet wield a great deal of power and influence.

Simply put, America needs to enforce existing laws. Political and media pundits are constantly expounding upon our need to send the right messages to terrorists. Why is it then that many of those same pundits send the wrong message to illegal aliens?

Only by reversing the flow of illegal aliens can we lower pressure on the border. The message we need to send? That America is not open, accommodating, or receptive to those the disrespect our laws and citizenry by entering as illegal aliens. The best messengers to carry this news will be millions of illegal aliens returning to their legal homes, to the nations they are citizens of.

Those that favor open borders and unrestricted immigration into America are constantly offering false dichotomies. They say "Well, do you want to secure the border or focus on interior enforcement?" or "Why are you not focusing on fining employers that hire illegal aliens?" The truth is that we should and must do all of the above. These same apologists for illegal aliens are the same political forces that are sending the message "Come to America and we will not enforce our laws. In fact, we will simply legalize you with the stroke of a pen and enroll you into a Guest Worker Amnesty Program. There you have it! No more illegal aliens."

We need to do many things to reverse the flow of illegal aliens and create the proper market pressures for many of them to leave on their own volition. Our efforts must be on every level of government: federal, state, and local.

The four things we must do are: (1). Secure our Borders. (2.) Crack down on employers that intentionally hire illegal labor. (3.) Remove all benefits such as licenses, in-state tuition, and welfare for illegal aliens. (4.) Empower local police to enforce immigration law.

Broad consensus exists for these measures, as multiple, national and local polls show over 80+% support for each one. From these multiple examples of support, we can see that the American public not only supports these measures, but American citizens are dismayed to discover that each facet has been compromised by an influential political minority.

The current administration in Washington is quick to point out that we are spending more than ever on border security resources. They do not like to mention the fact that over two thirds of our border patrol agents have poor morale because they are being prevented from doing the job they have been sent to do.

We can secure our borders by mounting pressure for the White House to rescind the current orders for our border patrol to only "catch and release" illegal aliens caught at the border. Mexican nationals caught entering the US should not be dropped off just across the border so they can try again the next night. They should be detained, identified, told that a 2nd crossing attempt is a felony. They should then handed over to the Mexican government to be returned to their homes. A Congressional inquiry is needed to ascertain why these insane and useless directives are in place and why most of the border sensor technology the taxpayers have paid for is not in place or operational.

Fining employers is essential, and once again supported by over 80+% of the American public. In 1999 only 400 employers were fined for hiring illegal labor. Under George Bush in 2004, Immigration and Customs Enforcement issued three intent letters but issued ZERO fines. The green light has been given to every business in America that they can hire illegal aliens without fear of enforcement. Thankfully, many states are now training and hiring agents to enforce fines against employers in the absence of the federal government honoring it's Constitutional responsibilities to the citizens of America.

Removing incentives to illegal aliens can be tricky. The Open Borders Lobby are using children and anchor babies as human shields to obtain benefits such as in-state tuition grants for illegal aliens. No American should be forced to pay for services for foreign nationals. Each state and federal elected official must know that illegal aliens should not be given licenses, in-state tuition, mortgages, bank accounts, welfare, or any other benefit short of emergency medical care and law enforcement accommodations before they are deported.

Empowering local police to enforce immigration law is essential, but currently there is confusion about enforcement by local police. Most departments do not realize that Federal law passed in 1996 already allows them to take action. That is why many cities and states are already training their officers for enforcement. Both local political will and funding must exist to set this in motion.

Now picture yourself as an illegal alien in an America where the existing laws are enforced, border patrol is allowed to do their job, employers are fined, benefits have been restricted, and the local police are now involved. Are you getting the message?

A final touch should be the declaration of English as America's national language. New laws must be passed that prohibit government agencies and businesses from discriminating by catering to Spanish speakers. Legal immigrants should be required to have some command of the English language. Current bi-lingual services are provided at a cost to American taxpayers and consumers are specifically designed to aid and abet illegal aliens. All legal immigrants to America should know how to speak American!

Illegal aliens will have trouble finding employment and services. They know if they are deported that getting back in will be more difficult than ever and when they are caught by police for crimes, drinking and driving, or driving without a license they are immediately placed in the deportation line and local officers are sent to their residence to determine the status of others living at that location.

There is no need for mass deportation, random sweeps, or draconian house–to-house searches.

If these measures are put in place, our illegal alien population will shrink instead of grow. This will also allow the employers that have been unscrupulous in their hiring practices to have some adjustment time. It took us years to get into this crisis and it will take years to get out. There will be some pain in the process, but we can send the illegal aliens home on air conditioned, first class buses stocked with diapers, refreshments, and baby formula, to satisfy the most tender-hearted Americans.

I often say in my speeches that "A chair without four legs is not a chair. We must do these four things. This is a true and holistic immigration reform. If we implement, a nation , these four measures, millions of illegal aliens will begin to leave the United States of America. Some will have to be helped on their way through deportation, but we do not have to deport 12 million. We can engage in enforcement through attrition." I've dubbed this "chair" the Krikorian Chair in honor of, Mark Krikorian, of the Center for Immigration Studies. As an admirer of Mr. Krikorian's work, one day I observed him facing down an Open Borders opponent on television by stating that we needed both border security and internal enforcement. Mark then pointed out that a stool needed more than one leg to be effective.

Mr. Krikorian has pointed out that illegal aliens ,in a sense, are migrants. This means they move from place to place. Those of us following this issue in the media have watched how illegal aliens chose states based on enforcement trends and benefits and how they start to leave a town when local officials crack down. Many of our illegal aliens will migrate back to the land they know if we implement Krikorian's Chair and send the correct message which is "Illegals Go Home!"

Another good analogy to use is being in a boat that has holes in the hull and is taking on water. Much like America, the boat will remain afloat for awhile but then pass a point where she starts to sink rapidly.

Right now, we are taking on much more water than we are bailing out. We need to plug some of the holes to reduce the flow of water. We need to increase the amount of water we are bailing out. We need to throw unneeded cargo weight off of the boat to alleviate pressure. Only when this is done will the situation improve for us.

Most importantly we need to identify those that have punched the holes in our boat and are standing there saying let's allow all of the water to stay in the boat and more to come in! These captains of doom need to be removed from political office, positions in the media, and positions of political influence.

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William Gheen is the President of Americans for Legal Immigration Political Action Committee or ALIPAC found at www.alipac.us He also serves as a legislative assistant in North Carolina. William is a veteran campaign consultant with experience in over 40 campaigns. He can be contacted at [email protected] or 919-787-6009.


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## RYANINMICHIGAN (Dec 9, 2005)

What is the definition of Illegal?? It is most certainly a crime to here with out following the proper channels.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Here we go again with people who don't respect America's sovereignty setting up false premises (straw men) to knock down. As long as the moderators are cool with this kind of crap being posted, I'm fine with refuting it.



asbestos said:


> People talk about illegals like they are felons or molesters or something.


 False premiseeople that want the laws enforced hold personal feelings of malice feelings towards illegal immigrants.
I'm guessing that of the +360M people in America there might be 150K folks (avg 3000 per state?) that REALLY feel illegal aliens are dangerous or in some other way physically menacing; the rest of us just want the immigration laws enforced. Statistically, 150K in 360M is less than 1/2 of 1%. As a practical matter that's 'nobody'.



asbestos said:


> How many people here in the course of their business have NEVER violated the law?


 False premise: If you've ever violated the law, either willfully or inadvertently, you've only selective (or no) right to its protections.



asbestos said:


> I am sure eeryone here pays *All* their taxes and makes sure there are no false deductions or unclaimed income (including use tax on online purchases) gets every permit every time it is required, obeys every OSHA reg every time, and obeys every other law and regulation to the 'T'


False premise#1: See above:
False premise #2: Cheaters are the rule, not the exception.



asbestos said:


> I'll bet you just skirt a few once or twice because 'you gotta make a living' or 'the government gets enough taxes from me anyway'


 False premise: Wagers are well placed by those who know not the chances of success.



asbestos said:


> We need to crack down on the companies that hire these people. and the companies that hire the companies that hire these guys (Wal mart a while back had a janitorial contract with a company that had huge amounts of illegals)


 False premise: Walmart has a unique stake in holding down labor expense.
You can believe that prices at Walmart rise in relation to its labor expenses. If tommorrow they had to pay everyone $5 an hour more to open Walmart's doors, they would - and the shopper would pick up the tab.



asbestos said:


> It is the companies that pay $4.00 that are unfairly competing with us and also the insurance companies that feed that demand.


 The only companies paying $4 [sic] are in China, India, Malaysia, etc. I dare you to point out any prosperous U.S. business that's paying $4/hr in the abscence of some otherwise mitigating compensatory provision (tips, bonuses, benefits, etc.). Even then I doubt you could.

It's worth noting that the primary means by which you seek to advance your position is slandering the character and intentions of those who hold contrary beliefs; people you know nothing of.


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

Guys lets get back on topic.


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

PipeGuy said:


> As long as the moderators are cool with this kind of crap being posted, I'm fine with refuting it.


If a post has gotten out of line please report it, I'm not taking the time to read everything in this thread. 
I am really sick of all the political discussion on this topic and I have no interest in reading page after page of people acting as if they are going to change anyone's mind on any of this topic.

This is exactly why we usually don't allow political discussion on this site, it never gets anywhere. Unfortunately this topic has found a loop hole and therefore it is allowed. Ah Politics


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

This is terribly un-PC, but so true..

*Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics, even if you win.. you're still retarded. *

Oh and no one will EVER accuse me of being PC. I am the most un-PC person I know.

I mean no offense. :w00t:


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

There is allot of politics in contracting.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

*How messed up is this?*

San Francisco Chronicle-
*Washington* -- Roughly 10 percent of Mexico's population of about 107 million is now living in the United States, estimates show. About 15 percent of Mexico's labor force is working in the United States. One in every 7 Mexican workers migrates to the United States.


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

PipeGuy said:


> San Francisco Chronicle-
> *Washington* -- Roughly 10 percent of Mexico's population of about 107 million is now living in the United States, estimates show. About 15 percent of Mexico's labor force is working in the United States. One in every 7 Mexican workers migrates to the United States.



Are you sure it's not every seven out of 10 illegals are here working?


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

A+Carpenter said:


> Are you sure it's not...


The only thing I'm sure of is that's what the Chronicle reported.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/21/MNGFQIVNAF1.DTL


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

http://www.wkrc.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=173FA78A-6622-481D-8FA4-8538EC853665

More:

http://www.wkrc.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=54F2C41A-61BC-45BE-A70F-DB4452837FA1


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## Rich Wozny (Aug 18, 2005)

PipeGuy said:


> Here we go again with people who don't respect America's sovereignty setting up false premises (straw men) to knock down. As long as the moderators are cool with this kind of crap being posted, I'm fine with refuting it.
> 
> False premiseeople that want the laws enforced hold personal feelings of malice feelings towards illegal immigrants.
> I'm guessing that of the +360M people in America there might be 150K folks (avg 3000 per state?) that REALLY feel illegal aliens are dangerous or in some other way physically menacing; the rest of us just want the immigration laws enforced. Statistically, 150K in 360M is less than 1/2 of 1%. As a practical matter that's 'nobody'.
> ...


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

wowz said:


> False premiseeople that want the laws enforced hold personal feelings of malice feelings towards illegal immigrants.
> I'm guessing that of the +360M people in America there might be 150K folks (avg 3000 per state?) that REALLY feel illegal aliens are dangerous or in some other way physically menacing; the rest of us just want the immigration laws enforced. Statistically, 150K in 360M is less than 1/2 of 1%. As a practical matter that's 'nobody'.
> 
> .Pipe.... you work for the census bureau, or you got somrthing stronger than Captain Black in that pipe? Where did you come up with 360 million people in America?


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^WOWZ THE PAINTER WROTE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think you referring him to having something in his pipe is not right. That is slander and constitutes you of leading people to believe he does drugs. So choose your words wisley as I do.:whistling :w00t: 

Let's all just addmit we have a problem with this illegal immigration newfound era and move on. GEEEZ we have the national gaurd on our side now. and when I say our side I mean our side of the border:laughing: 

Oh and your comment FALSE PREMISE. WTF is that dude we dont hold any malice towards anyone. It is the fact that if they have to work for it then it becomes a problem for us. :furious: :furious: 

As posted in this thread 2 weeks ago. :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

I support the illegal immigration laws 1000%. I see blue skys over the herizon when this law passes to rid our country of its poverty it has put itlself into for lending the hand for to long.


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

And I was just starting to think this had finally died down.


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

Nathan said:


> And I was just starting to think this had finally died down.



It will never die down. I hope they step the raids up another 5 clicks. Oh if your talking about the thread wich I think you are? 

It will die down I think when the National Guard shows a big presence and the working man has decent money to feed his family with. Instead of the lowest wage made easy labor money.<Brought directly from South of the border just for your pocket book"<


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

PipeGuy said:


> ...
> I'm guessing that of the +360M people in America...





Woz the Painter said:


> Pipe.... you work for the census bureau, or you got somrthing stronger than Captain Black in that pipe? Where did you come up with 360 million people in America?


Doh! My bad. Haven't had anything in a pipe for many years but that's no excuse, huh? Comment should've read "+/- 300M people in America...". I stand corrected.


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## asbestos (Mar 22, 2006)

you can always tell the English, the Spanish, and the Dutch
You can always tell the talk radio listeners - but you can't tell em' much:notworthy


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