# How much per hour



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

What is a fair pay rate for a 32 year old general carpenter. Been in the trades since mid twenties and before that was under the wing of a father who was in the trades. 

He told me that you don't need to stir a new can of paint when you open it, because it was shaken at the paint store when it was bought well over a week ago.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

If it was me I would need a guy who can multi task and put his hand at anything. He don't sound like he's to sharp. But then again some of the best trades people I have meet have known nothing about anything but just their trade. Hopefully he's better with wood than paint.

I say $20 an hour. That's more than a warehouse worker would get paid by a few $ and not insulting for test period. I'm sure if he's any good then you will increase his pay and keep him on.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

I always ask experxienced guys what they expect to make. No sense them even starting if they wont be happy. One week paying top dollar wont hurt me either. By then you will know and you both can be happy, one way or another!


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hmmm, considering paying someone with around 7 years of experience who thinks mixed paint will stay that way for a week.....

Nope :no:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I don't think you really know until he produces work. I would pay 40 if he was "super carpenter". Hourly rate is a relationship between the two and geography has something to do with it as well. In Wisconsin I have lead carpenters who are good friends and they all make over $28....but that's here and they are at the top of their game.

The paint can situation isn't part of the equation. Once you see a guy work it's easier to determine. I've been known to say stupid things on occasion, that doesn't make me worth less money.

My opinion at least.

Mike


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Maybe I'm a bit jaded this week :shifty: but the employee pool is pretty large right now. If someone wants to spout stupid comments to me during an interview, that's his loss. 

Next! :laughing:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I was taught at about age 8 to always stir the paint before applying. Then again, it was evident by the oil floating on top of the solids.:whistling Prolly had lead in it too.

That being said, unless he'll be painting, WGAF?

That would be no different than discrediting him as a carpenter for giving you bad investment advice.:blink:

I couldn't tell you how to wire a 4-way switch either, but I'll carpenter the hell out of some wood.:laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

I have to wonder............

How does a conversation even come up about mixing paint within a certain time frame while considering a carpenter and the wages. Something is really fishy about this. 

Mike


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Riz: You are just soooo quotable!!!


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

loneframer said:


> That would be no different than discrediting him as a carpenter for giving you bad investment advice.:blink:


That's the best one liner of the week IMO:laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

loneframer said:


> I couldn't tell you how to wire a 4-way switch either, but I'll carpenter the hell out of some wood.:laughing:


Sure but then would you still go ahead and give advice about the switch anyway?

That's the difference right there why you'd get hired and he wouldn't.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

angus242 said:


> Sure but then would you still go ahead and give advice about the switch anyway?
> 
> That's the difference right there why you'd get hired and he wouldn't.


 Good point. 

True story.

Yesterday, the electrician was trying to explain to me the difference between wiring a 3-way switch and a 4-way switch. His drawing reminded me of John Madden on any given Sunday.:laughing: He had X's and O's and criss-crosses and double reverses....


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> I have to wonder............
> 
> How does a conversation even come up about mixing paint within a certain time frame while considering a carpenter and the wages. Something is really fishy about this.
> 
> Mike


I'm with ya Angus....but I still have to wonder.:laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm not insinuating anyone's position on the guy is wrong. As some might have read today, I was almost royally screwed for a significant amount of money. As I get older and have more opportunities to be screwed, I understand the phrase, crabby old men. I'm extra jaded today and feel the need to again tighten up my business practices. I'll never be 100% protected against those that chose to screw me but I'll also never be unprepared for it to happen either. 

I give a lot of leeway when it comes to what it is I do, but sometimes it's not warranted. Someone with such a moronic statement about paint shot himself in the foot. I had nothing to do with it other than not wanting to shoot my own foot. :cowboy:


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## lshomesolutions (Jul 19, 2008)

And people get mad when posters ask about how much to charge for a job????


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I think work is slow and Mike's bored. 

First, the whole paint thing is a total red herring. Since when is a sawdust maker supposed to know squat about painting, other than how to prepare his wood for it? Sure, most of us do since it's rare to have the luxury of doing only pure carpentry if that's your chosen specialty. But it's still irrelevant in terms of his ability to handle wood.

Second, Mike of all people asking what wage you would pay? Whose answers are you going to go by, Mike--the guys from Podunk, Alabama or the guys from downtown New York City? :laughing:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

carry this with you as a reminder.:laughing:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

it depends on what he brings to the table if hes always at work but isnt the sharpest tool yet is eager to learn 18, if he knows his stuff 20 or 22. if hes able to be completely self reliant given problem solving skills and has his own gear just wants material brought to site close to 30


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

I think Mikes wage chart is more of a scale of 1-10, more than anything. I scored him at 20 bucks an hour, more because of where it fell in the range than a dollar amount.:thumbsup:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> I think work is slow and Mike's bored.
> 
> First, the whole paint thing is a total red herring. Since when is a sawdust maker supposed to know squat about painting, other than how to prepare his wood for it? Sure, most of us do since it's rare to have the luxury of doing only pure carpentry if that's your chosen specialty. But it's still irrelevant in terms of his ability to handle wood.
> 
> Second, Mike of all people asking what wage you would pay? Whose answers are you going to go by, Mike--the guys from Podunk, Alabama or the guys from downtown New York City? :laughing:


Yeah, this really has me boggled. If anybody else asked this question mike would strap his a$$ to whipping post.

Mike


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Oh well, i figured based on the question you mine as well make him a partner in the business. That's how I voted.:laughing:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Maybe we need some more information. I'm pretty sure that if that week old paint sat in the back of my truck on the way to the jobsite it wouldn't need any more shaking or mixing.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> general carpenter


*General Carpenter* - not a specialized carpenter like a framer, not a trim carpenter... not a finish carpenter...

General-- knows how to frame, install cabs... hang and finish drywall... some light plumbing... some light electrical.. run trim..... painting :whistling...

I wanted to ask him why he thought they made stir sticks, when would one of thoes enter in?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

loneframer said:


> I was taught at about age 8 to always stir the paint before applying.


I think I was 9.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

loneframer said:


> I was taught at about age 8 to always stir the paint before applying.





Mike Finley said:


> I think I was 9.


 I also learned how to swish the brush around in gasoline and swat it out in the bushes.

However, I wasn't instructed on how to keep the Battleship Grey deck paint from splattering all over the bright red Ninty-Eight Olds.

Got my ass tanned for that one.:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*........*

:blink: :yawn::sleep1:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

So how exactly did paint stirring come up in conversation?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

loneframer said:


> the bright red Ninty-Eight Olds.


We had a blue one.


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## [email protected] (Jan 10, 2010)

loneframer said:


> Good point.
> 
> True story.
> 
> Yesterday, the electrician was trying to explain to me the difference between wiring a 3-way switch and a 4-way switch. His drawing reminded me of John Madden on any given Sunday.:laughing: He had X's and O's and criss-crosses and double reverses....


 I had a sparky do that same thing with me two weeks ago. Im putting a small additon on my house and am going to wire it myself. I asked him to help me and he said no problem what with I told him the three way switches, oh man did that get him going. Dead end three ways, regular three ways four ways and some other ways drawn out all over the finish guys table. I had to take pictures of the drawings so I could remember them.:w00t:


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

angus242 said:


> We had a blue one.


 My folks had a blue 88, then the red 98, but before both of them, they had an Olds 442. '65, I'm pretty sure.:thumbup:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

We had a blue 88:









Then a blue 98:









I always thought that rear wheel fender cover was bad-ass!

from then on, only gramps owned Olds. We switched to Ford and that's all I've owned.


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## wyoming 1 (May 7, 2008)

[

Got my ass tanned for that one.:laughing:[/quote]


That's what the paint stir stick is for Mike!.........Keeping your kids inline


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ubenhad4 said:


> I had a sparky do that same thing with me two weeks ago. Im putting a small additon on my house and am going to wire it myself. I asked him to help me and he said no problem what with I told him the three way switches, oh man did that get him going. Dead end three ways, regular three ways four ways and some other ways drawn out all over the finish guys table. I had to take pictures of the drawings so I could remember them.:w00t:


Try coming from the UK where a 2 way is a 3 way, an intermittent is a 4 way and a black is neutral not live and blue is neutral not white. Its about as confusing as it gets.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> We had a blue 88:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That gold bastid is the shiznit. Dam, I gotta get a sweet ride like that. The fender skirts and the white walls with hub caps are frickn AWESOME!

Mike


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> That gold bastid is the shiznit. Dam, I gotta get a sweet ride like that. The fender skirts and the white walls with hub caps are frickn AWESOME!
> 
> Mike


Then you'll love this golden beauty:laughing:


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

angus242 said:


> Sure but then would you still go ahead and give advice about the switch anyway?
> 
> That's the difference right there why you'd get hired and he wouldn't.


Exactly :thumbsup:

That's a symptom/clue of something far more sinister lurking beneath the surface. That very thing will cost you thousands of dollars in mistakes.

I wouldn't hire him. I couldn't afford to hire him and NONE of the guys I work with get paid less than $30/hr.

You don't know something? Say you don't know. You'll look a lot smarter and people will trust you


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

loneframer said:


> Then you'll love this golden beauty:laughing:


Oh man, I watched this 3 times and sent it out to a few friends for a good laugh. That video is funny as he##.:laughing:

Mike


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Oh man, I watched this 3 times and sent it out to a few friends for a good laugh. That video is funny as he##.:laughing:
> 
> Mike


You need to see the whole movie then.:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> What is a fair pay rate for a ...


Damn guys, none of ya got this by now...

There is no such thing as "fair pay" ... it's a Finley trick. :w00t:

Life isn't fair...and neither is anyone's pay...damn whiners. :laughing:


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

A journeyman carpenter for commercial work rate plus benefits is $46 an hour. Minimum! It's a decent wage for a professional tradesman who's completed a four year apprenticeship. And is trying to make a decent living and raise a familly. I read allot of posts on here and allot of whining about craigslist hacks. But some of these posts sound hipocritical in comparison.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I didn't see anything about a journeyman carpenter mentioned.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

angus242 said:


> We had a blue 88:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Teddy Kennedy had a black Delmont 88.


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## kswoodbutcher (Dec 4, 2010)

You guys had me doubled over with tears in my eyes laughing with this thread! I almost forgot what the question was. If you think he has potential, start him out at a fair wage for your area, after a week or two of steady work, you will know if his skills reflect his stupid paint comment.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

it is a trick question

there is no such thing as a "all around general carpenter" 

I'd guess that 10% - 15% of the carpenters (or GC's) out there can honestly demo, frame, trim, side, hang drywall and mud, dig holes, build concrete forms, pour concrete, do slab prep, caulk, as well as paint.

I always get "I don't do that" when I ask if they will help me hang the drywall after we frame a new wall.

In the region I grew up in, it was expected that if you framed you could hang drywall (not that it always happened like that) Well I move to colorado and I could barely find one guy who could frame a wall and hang drywall. The funny part is, the guys who could do that were from the same part of the country as me.

again, TRICK QUESTION, there ain't nobody who can do all that, so pay them 90 bucks an hour


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

fast fred said:


> it is a trick question
> 
> there is no such thing as a "all around general carpenter"
> 
> ...


Not to split hairs but that's just not true, a ton of people are willing to do it "all". 

Mike


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## Vince_B (May 9, 2008)

If the painting carpenter wanted to work for me he'd have to write ME a check on Friday. He could write it off under for babysitting fees.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Depends, did he stir the paint after you told him he needed to?


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

Do most carpenters here seriously pull 100k gross as an employee? Wow.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

I think most commercial carpenters make 60 for a full year after health insurance and retirement it's probably closer to 90 as an employee. I'm sure residential is quite a bit less. In my opinion wether your a doctor or a carpenter the best of the best specialize in one practice. I own a company that only does commercial doors and hardware. I some times miss framing and ceillings and even drywall but you can't be the best at everything. I'm the best at doors and hardware


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Run away...I agree that the pool is full of prospects. No reason to hire a guy who doesn't know that you have to stir paint before using. The only exception is if you just had the guy shake it before you got to the site. As a "General" Carpenter he should know this.

There are too many good guys out there waiting to get a job. My advice is to keep looking.

And this was my dad's pride...until some lady rear ended him totaling it back in the 70's.


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## CCCo. (Jul 19, 2009)

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/sks/2106978358.html

:w00t:


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## RenaissanceR (May 16, 2006)

*Cheap..*



CCCo. said:


> http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/sks/2106978358.html
> 
> :w00t:


Hmm, comes out to around $11.00 per hour for 5 people...


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## Gibson239 (Nov 30, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> What is a fair pay rate for a 32 year old general carpenter. Been in the trades since mid twenties and before that was under the wing of a father who was in the trades.
> 
> He told me that you don't need to stir a new can of paint when you open it, because it was shaken at the paint store when it was bought well over a week ago.


 Its a competitive market you sound a little green asking these questions. seriously about 15 per hr.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Gibson239 said:


> Its a competitive market you sound a little green asking these questions. seriously about 15 per hr.


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## Gibson239 (Nov 30, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> What is a fair pay rate for a 32 year old general carpenter. Been in the trades since mid twenties and before that was under the wing of a father who was in the trades.
> 
> He told me that you don't need to stir a new can of paint when you open it, because it was shaken at the paint store when it was bought well over a week ago.


 I am a general contractor & master carpenter with all my papers and my rate is 35-40per hr when jumping crews. keep in mind I have a scaffold trailer getting me up 35 feet up and a work trailer. Thats busting my ass I don't play its competitive in SWFL and glad to work.


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

There is no way I would use my own trailer scafold and power tools for only 40 an hour. Maybe if some one was paying for my health, comp, unemployment insurance And giving me a bonus. If I am billing my guys out on t and m it's 60-65 if your an employee you shouldn't supply that. That's why everyone isn't a employer. Sounds like your boss is making some good money if your really a master carpenter


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## Mark Siders (Dec 11, 2010)

I haven't worked for an hourly rate for about 10 years but just moved to the south from ohio and can't find any piece work, and the hourly wages suck here. Piece work is the way to go because everyone gets paid for what they produce no over or under paid.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

fast fred said:


> it is a trick question
> 
> there is no such thing as a "all around general carpenter"
> 
> ...



I love being in the top 10% all the rest of you specialty guys are hacks. :thumbsup: 
It's just to bad low ball specialty guys thinks 15 -20 is top wage. :laughing:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

angus242 said:


>











:whistling


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Gibson239 said:


> Its a competitive market you sound a little green asking these questions. seriously about 15 per hr.



Lol. If this doesn't prove Mikes' point, I am not sure what will. The problem is that guys think he is actually serious about asking the question. To any of you who would hire a guy with experience, whose father was in the trade, would get a job for $20 without even the most basic of knowledge is comical.

My fiance/neice/mom/grandma/nephew and dog know that you have to stir a can of paint.



The only thing that is "green" around here is... "I am a general contractor & master carpenter with all my papers and my rate is 35-40per hr when jumping crews. keep in mind I have a scaffold trailer getting me up 35 feet up and a work trailer. Thats busting my ass I don't play its competitive in SWFL and glad to work. "

That is half the rate of my hourly payroll.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

loneframer said:


> When times were good, my buds in the biz told me I was too cheap. Now they're not working and tell me I'm so lucky to be working.
> 
> I haven't lost a beat with my numbers.
> 
> ...


I agree, your business shouldn't change because of the economy. If it does then somethng is wrong. 

Changing what you do is a good indication of previous problems.

Mike


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

detroit687 said:


> I've owned my own company for 5 years now but before that I was a union carpenter for ten and my father was one for thirty and we didn't do that great. Decent house and trucks and clothes but not that great. I feel sorry for carpenters that don't think that's the bare minimum. Why don't you go work at home depot or a cell phone store with the bennys you'll do better.


You got it. I just closed shop and contacted the MOD at Home Depot. I start Monday. I also checked out Verizon and landed a part time job. Thanks for the advice.

Bbbbbbbennie...Bennie...Bennie and the jets...oh sorry I shouldn't sing that around you...gets you way too excited.


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## kswoodbutcher (Dec 4, 2010)

:thumbsup:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You got it. I just closed shop and contacted the MOD at Home Depot. I start Monday. I also checked out Verizon and landed a part time job. Thanks for the advice.
> 
> Bbbbbbbennie...Bennie...Bennie and the jets...oh sorry I shouldn't sing that around you...gets you way too excited.


Just remember that it's a job and they can replace people at will. In today's market it happens all the time. One day they just tell you "sorry, we don't need you anymore" I would say that happens right around the time when you hurt yourself.

A job is never permanent.

Benefits are temporary as well. Quite a few people I have known through the years were all confident in what they had until they lost it. Then they find themselves with no job, no insurance, and unable to get insured again.

Just be careful is all I'm saying. A while back Home Depot had earnings trouble so they laid off the expensive people. It goes in cycles and this stuff goes on everywhere.

Mike


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Just remember that it's a job and they can replace people at will. In today's market it happens all the time. One day they just tell you "sorry, we don't need you anymore" I would say that happens right around the time when you hurt yourself.
> 
> A job is never permanent.
> 
> ...


It was a joke...sarcasm...sorry Mike, didn't mean for anyone to take it seriously. I have had my own business for nearly 8 years, I don't think that I could work for someone else if I had to. I am unemployable...so to speak.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It was a joke...sarcasm...sorry Mike, didn't mean for anyone to take it seriously. I have had my own business for nearly 8 years, I don't think that I could work for someone else if I had to. I am unemployable...so to speak.


Ha! Sorry, I'm a little slow tonight, I though you were serious.:laughing:

I thought that seemed odd coming from you but figured you might have wrestled with the economy and threw in the towel. I should of known better.:laughing:


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

Doubleoh7 said:


> Teddy Kennedy had a black Delmont 88.


I thought that was his boat!


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

As a Carpenter, I get asked this question all the time: How much do you charge an hour? Not as an employee, but rather to provide the service. What gives? I mean seriously. if I tell you I scare you away. Let's just say for example I want to make [email protected] hour, OK? FICA taxes are $3.06, comp is $2.60, we are already at $25.66, I haven't added liability, truck expenses, phone, office these easily add a few more dollars even though office is home, so to get $20 I have to charge almost $30. Doesn't seem fair but I know it's reality. An employee is different, oh so different and if he is a legal employee, I am paying for, in addition to his take home pay a lot of stuff he may only vaguely be aware of, a [email protected] hour employee can cost over $20 so he better know which end of the stir stick to use


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Just remember that it's a job and they can replace people at will. In today's market it happens all the time. One day they just tell you "sorry, we don't need you anymore" I would say that happens right around the time when you hurt yourself.
> 
> A job is never permanent.
> 
> ...


 


Mike,

What you have stated above is very true. This is why I decided to be self employed. If I ever have to take a job "for the man" again, you can bet that I won't be giving it my all. As an employee in todays work environment, I believe in doing the bare minimum required to keep the job. That is how the employer employee relationship works nowadays. Each side give the bare minimum required.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Doubleoh7 said:


> Mike,
> 
> What you have stated above is very true. This is why I decided to be self employed. If I ever have to take a job "for the man" again, you can bet that I won't be giving it my all. As an employee in todays work environment, I believe in doing the bare minimum required to keep the job. That is how the employer employee relationship works nowadays. Each side give the bare minimum required.


I take pride in my work no matter who I am working for.


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## Flacan (Aug 28, 2007)

loneframer said:


> People in the business don't forget the price gougers, nor do they forget the honest faces.:thumbsup:


It's the mask they don't forget...I gotta git me one too :thumbup:

Seriously, I agree with that 100%. (I know that's pushing it, but it's true)


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Doubleoh7 said:


> Mike,
> 
> What you have stated above is very true. This is why I decided to be self employed. If I ever have to take a job "for the man" again, you can bet that I won't be giving it my all. As an employee in todays work environment, I believe in doing the bare minimum required to keep the job. That is how the employer employee relationship works nowadays. Each side give the bare minimum required.


That's got to be one of the moxt toxic attitudes I've seen in a long time.

I can only imagine the rest of the baggage that comes with it.


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## RTRCon (May 20, 2007)

Well after 7 pages... What did you decide to hire him for:laughing: Good read guys:thumbsup:


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Mike is gonna make him CEO

Mike


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> Mike is gonna make him CEO
> 
> Mike


 *I paid 2.99 for gas this morning. Oil is increasing. The best way to fight oil prices is to OWN oil. Pick an oil stock with great dividends and a strong balance sheet, hold it for a few years minimum. Long on Chevron, very long. ($84.90) 12-12-10.......Mike
Should we start calling you Mike Rockefeller? *


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Mike Finley said:


> That's got to be one of the moxt toxic attitudes I've seen in a long time.
> 
> I can only imagine the rest of the baggage that comes with it.


 It might be toxic but it's true, I've been on both sides of this thing and can tell you if you give your all to an employer you'll just get taken advantage of. Isn't that the principle behind unions? Performer or slacker everyone gets paid the same?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Irishslave said:


> Isn't that the principle behind unions? Performer or slacker everyone gets paid the same?


No.


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## Flacan (Aug 28, 2007)

Irishslave said:


> It might be toxic but it's true, I've been on both sides of this thing and can tell you if you give your all to an employer you'll just get taken advantage of.


Sometimes it's not true. There are a few good employers out there who will help an employee, because that employee will then reciprocate (hopefully). It may take some time for such an employer to find an employee who will not take advantage of the help, but eventually such an employer will find himself in a better position to expand and make more money (all else being equal, that is)...this of course works visa versa as well - employee/employer.


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## Mike's Plumbing (Jul 19, 2010)

Irishslave said:


> It might be toxic but it's true, I've been on both sides of this thing and can tell you if you give your all to an employer you'll just get taken advantage of. Isn't that the principle behind unions? Performer or slacker everyone gets paid the same?


You don't give it your all based on who employs you, you give it your all because of who you are as a person.........


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Mike's Plumbing said:


> You don't give it your all based on who employs you, you give it your all because of who you are as a person.........


 
Mike, that is bullcrap. I guess you don't think much of me as a person. It is a dumb son of a bi&^h that will give it all for his employer when he knows they are shipping his job overseas, or are cutting his pay and benefits while adding responsibilities. I've had employers like that (including 3 fortune 500 companies) and there is no way they were getting my best.


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