# pricing cabinet install



## pdxjobs (Mar 17, 2010)

We are installing cabinets in a commercial building. How would you price such a job? 
Time or number of cabinets or something else?


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Estimate how long the install will take you, then factor in your daily rate based on your overhead, needs, and ability to charge, GMOD.


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## cabinet runner (Nov 11, 2008)

pdxjobs said:


> We are installing cabinets in a commercial building. How would you price such a job?
> Time or number of cabinets or something else?


 
Allright no one on here is going to tell you how much to charge but I'll give a couple of tips on how I do it . I submit price sheets to salesman at multiple showrooms . 

An easy way to do it is per box i.e. a 24/30 wall cabinet = 1 box . 

I charge for 2 boxes on full height cabinets i.e. wall oven cabinets or pantry cabinets .

I also give a price for each style of moldings per stick and if I have to cut 1 ft of a stick to finish it counts . 

Seperate price for a knob and a pull .

Pricing for various countertop lengths as well as any cabinet or countertop cutouts . I bid custom built ins or ups individually . 

If you do it this way you shouldn't miss anything. 

I am very specific about the cabinets being delivered to the floor where the kitchen is or additional charges will apply . 

Some installers use linear ft numbers and it also an accurate method . 

Good luck


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I charge by linear foot.

One rate for uppers which includes any crown
One rate for bases (penninsulas and inslands count as base cabs)
One rate for full wall cabs like pantries.


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## cabinet runner (Nov 11, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> I charge by linear foot.
> 
> 
> I stopped using this method years ago when I felt I got burned a couple of times .
> ...


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

cabinet runner said:


> rselectric1 said:
> 
> 
> > I charge by linear foot.
> ...


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## JamesDibben (Apr 5, 2010)

I charged per piece for several years before someone taught me how to charge using the first suggestion above.

I've since developed a way to price both easily.

I first price the old way, almost exactly as Cabinet Runner explains, then I take that final number and put it in a custom spread sheet that converts it over to time, material, overhead and profit margin.

By pricing it both ways you get a chance to see it the way you are familiar and you also get to see how your business is impacted. 

The biggest advantage of converting it to hours is the obvious. You can see how many hours you just gave yourself to get it done. That will help you catch any counts you may have gotten wrong.

If you would like for me to post an example just let me know and I'll show you one I've done recently.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Any pricing and estimating help is welcome!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to see how you do it.--Mike--


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## JamesDibben (Apr 5, 2010)

Well, here's what I like to teach.

Your bid 'tree' should mirror your P&L/Income statement. Whatever expenses are generated solely from the labor of actually doing the work should be considered a cost of goods sold. Labor, fuel, work comp, liability, matching taxes. None of these should be in your overhead. Anything that goes up as a direct result of actually doing a job stays OUT of your overhead percentage. The less you have in your overhead and the more you can move to your cost of goods sold category the more accurate your bid will be.

So, I just sent my guys out to install a kitchen. This kitchen is a 40 mile round trip and our truck gets around 10mpg and fuel around here is about $2.50 a gallon but back when fuel was really heading up I compensated for that in my pricing and charge $5.00. This is a great way of keeping rising fuel prices from ever hurting your business. It never hurt mine. Ok, so, right now I have a cost of $20.00 figured in my quote.

This job is going to take my guys 5hrs to install. How do I know that? Because that's what they are going to get paid, no matter how long it takes them. They will probably get it done in 4 but I'll still pay them 5. In the past they would have taken 6 and my budget would get blown. This way of doing it they stay nice and motivated. Ok, so two guys at 5hrs and I have $135.00 in labor. You NEVER want to forget your three biggest expenses AFTER direct labor. That's work comp, liability and matching taxes. For my specific business that's about 14% so now I add on $18.90 and we have a grand total of $173.90 of expenses on this job. All that's left is to run that through my overhead and profit margin.

The beauty of all of this is I now have a budget customized to this job. I'll hit it to the penny.

Does that make sense?


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

jdibben said:


> Well, here's what I like to teach.
> 
> Your bid 'tree' should mirror your P&L/Income statement. Whatever expenses are generated solely from the labor of actually doing the work should be considered a cost of goods sold. Labor, fuel, work comp, liability, matching taxes. None of these should be in your overhead. Anything that goes up as a direct result of actually doing a job stays OUT of your overhead percentage. The less you have in your overhead and the more you can move to your cost of goods sold category the more accurate your bid will be.
> 
> ...


It makes sense to me, but:

I usually figure by the mile...and that varies depending on road condition and how fast the road can be traveled.

As far as your labor cost....You should give your guys a little slack. If you paid them a little better than 13.50 an hour they may be motivated to make you money.arty:


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## cabinet runner (Nov 11, 2008)

PA woodbutcher said:


> It makes sense to me, but:
> As far as your labor cost....You should give your guys a little slack. If you paid them a little better than 13.50 an hour they may be motivated to make you money.arty:


 I don't want to be to hard on the guys labor price as I don't know his area. I have to pay at least $20.00 if I want anything more than just a laborer . 

Then again I no longer have a fulltime helper due to my work load .
I'll take 2 days on a normal 1 day install if I have nothing else for the next day or I'll stay late in neccesary . It has really helped keep costs down though it's hard on me physically .

I have a guy who will come by when he gets off work and help me with large vanity tops ect and get all the trash in the dumpster . At 1st I carried a 73 inch cultred marble vanity top up the stairs . I only did that one time . I value my nuts and I felt like I may have a stroke. getting old sucks . :sad: 

I have to pay him $25.00 an hour but on average he is there for 1 1'2 hours . I usually pay him $50.00 minimum to make it worth his time to drive over once he gets off work .


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## JamesDibben (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks for the conversation guys!

That $13.50 was just an example actually. Also, in our area this is a very common rate of pay. Not very good, is it.

I was wrong about the hours and the job they did yesterday. It was a 6hr job and they got it done in 3 so if I were paying them $13.00 they would have made $26.00/hr for the day. Like I said, my budget stayed on and they made pretty good money for 3hrs of work. Tomorrow they will be doing a tear out and move a few of those cabinets to another wall. I'm giving them 6hrs again but they'll have it done in a couple. They consistently double their pay like this.

We have quoted a TON of prevailing wage work this year. Some of it pays $47.00 an hour.

That was easy to bid using this formula. I didn't have to figure out how $13.00 per piece translates over to a $47.00 labor expense.

My guys want to land this work.....BAD! :clap:


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

JDIBBEN---Thanks for the insight-----it's always helpful to see how others do the estimates.

I use a system similar to Rons (rselectric). I actually do most jobs 3 ways -just to check my numbers.

I first do a quick estimated labor time(man hours)--Materials--and costs-fuel-garbage-tools-sales time-


Then I'll check this with an average cost based on past work--LF. of cabinets--trim--plumbing rough-electrical(number of openings) and other typical costs.


When the job is complete I'll do a recap to see if I was close on times and materials-(or just kidding my self)--I don't do the recaps as often as I should---Sometimes the truth hurts---

The recent years of tight bids has made the recaps a very sobering experience--I've actually been forced to raise prices on just about every phase of a job,

Every job has to pay for itself now--I can't do any losers-I can no longer shrug off a badly bid job and cover the loss with the next job.

---Mike---


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## JamesDibben (Apr 5, 2010)

That's good stuff Mike!

It's nice to hear other contractors doing the exact same thing I am.

I have had to raise my prices in the last year too so I can maintain my viability.

Here's a quick story that I hope is worth your valued time.

I lost a large job last year. It was an apartment building. It was somewhere around 50 kitchens. They were going to remodel 5 kitchens a week. They wanted a cabinet installer that would be able to install 5 kitchens on the last two days of the week. I bid it and came in around $500.00 a kitchen. Believe me, that's a bargain because you know just leveling the cabinets was going to be a nightmare.

Well, the customer set his cabinet install budget at $175.00 a kitchen. He didn't like my numbers so called a competitor of mine. My competitor didn't even ask for a drawing. He just took the job.

Well, he did 6 a week. There is no way he made money on that. He had to work himself to death.

At that same time we were doing brand new duplexes that paid $500.00 per side and we could do both sides in one day.

I don't know how he's going to stay in business taking work on like that.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

I've been foolish enough to to do some-"I just need a paycheck" jobs. Every time I've bitten on one of those 
some tool has failed--tire went flat--It's like a curse follows me.
(I hear the ghost of my mother,"Well,What did you expect!")

New guys(and gals)--Do those job recaps--Save the folders--they will help with future bids.

None of us can take any financial hits -------Mike-----


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## Cache (Sep 18, 2007)

pdxjobs said:


> We are installing cabinets in a commercial building. How would you price such a job?
> Time or number of cabinets or something else?


I design and install all my cabs custom. My software builds in a markup for each cab. If the cab has crown then the software marks up the crown. I build the job virtually and then I know that nothing was missed.


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## JamesDibben (Apr 5, 2010)

My dad owns a custom cabinet company as well.

What software do you use?


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

When I price a job that includes a cabinet install I price it like every other thing I do.
How long will it take?How many people will it take to do it?Materials needed?
Add all that together + overhead and profit = install price.


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## Cache (Sep 18, 2007)

jdibben said:


> My dad owns a custom cabinet company as well.
> 
> What software do you use?


Currently Ecabinets. Have used cabinet vision too, but I don't own a CNC and my best CNC shop uses a Thermwood router. They work really well with ecabinets because it was written by Thermwood specifically for their routers.


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