# how to learn plumbing?



## J87513 (Jan 15, 2007)

Hey all, I am interested in learning plumbing. My industry is so damb small that I can't find a job within an hour drive from where I live. I have alot of experience in solar plumbing for swimming pools and domestic water heating. I know my trade very well and will have my contracting license in about a month. I've done alot of soldering for solar and I know the basics of plumbing. I've also put in sinks and traps.

But I would like to know is how much could an amateur plumber get paid down here in SoCal? Any advice on how to get a job as a plumber and learn?


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Part of me wonders if your not pulling some legs here...*
*There is absolutely NO such thing as a paid "amateur" plumber.*
*You'll need to do an apprenticeship, this isn't something you can invest money in tools, hop in a vehicle and just have at it.*
*Start by finding a plumbing company thats looking for help, get yourself signed up as an apprentice through a master plumber with that company and you'll need a few years time (often 5, depending on state) and schooling to qualify to take the state exam.*
*Attempting to do plumbing without a license can result in serious legal trouble, insurance co's won't cover you without a license either.*


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Oh but there is, and it's in CA and AZ there both are right to work states, one can work under a owners license. At least from what I recall, but the laws may have changed over the years.


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## J87513 (Jan 15, 2007)

let me tell you my situation:

1. I'm not working without a plumbing license

2. My trade that I will be licensed in soon is not plumbing, but it is related.

3. I want to make some money and learn more about plumbing until my own thing takes off, if it does.

4. Okay, I must have not phrased it correctly, I said amateur plumber and the correct lingo is "apprentenship".

5. My question is how much would a trainee plumber in an apprentenship program make an hour?


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Oh but there is, and it's in CA and AZ there both are right to work states, one can work under a owners license. At least from what I recall, but the laws may have changed over the years.


*Right, I forgot...I think it's more than a few states that work that way.*
*Fla also.*
*Still need to finish an apprennticeship to work on your own.*
*Except FLA..I think once you buy a torch your licensed.*
*Kidding, I hope.*

*J87513, you seem vague on what "related" trade you worked...maybe HVAC?*
*As for how much an apprentice makes...depends on where and who you work for.*
*Most here start first year at 10 to 13/hour.*


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## 3Kings Plumbing (Jan 2, 2008)

*sale yourself*

It depends really on who hires you and how well you can sale yourself. For Example: When I first started plumbing me and an guy with little experiance in plumbing got hired in the same day. He got hired in at $8.00 hr I got hired in at $8.50 hr is that fair to him? Probably not, But it's all in the presitation you give. :thumbsup:

From what I understand it's kind of hard to find an job in plumbing right now across the east to west coast. Good Luck!


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

In Ca he doesn't need his license...or an apprenticeship. He needs a little bit of how too's and that's it. He is going for his B license...GC. As long as he is contracting at least 3 trades on the job he can do ALL the work himself. What he cannot do is show up at a house and install a water heater or a new ....whatever. He must have at least 3 seperate trades. it's lame here.

He was asking about this a while ago....


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Right, I forgot...I think it's more than a few states that work that way.*
> *Fla also.*
> *Still need to finish an apprennticeship to work on your own.*
> *Except FLA..I think once you buy a torch your licensed.*
> ...


Wow, I hope some FL guys chime in around here. I heard the opposite about FL. One of my buddies went there to work the hurricane and wound up in jail for being unlicensed. He was operating as a gc and they threw the book at him when they caught him.


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## wrenchman (Jan 5, 2008)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *Right, I forgot...I think it's more than a few states that work that way.*
> *Fla also.*
> *Still need to finish an apprennticeship to work on your own.*
> *Except FLA..I think once you buy a torch your licensed.*
> ...


 
Your confusing that with the mexican rule: if you have a pickup and hammer you can call yourself a contractor. And the USA will pick up the tab for your kids health care.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Brock said:


> Wow, I hope some FL guys chime in around here. I heard the opposite about FL. One of my buddies went there to work the hurricane and wound up in jail for being unlicensed. He was operating as a gc and they threw the book at him when they caught him.


*My state is very strict on licensing, technically we aren't allowed to anything but a faucet washer without a permit, nothing connected to water, gas or drainage without a license.*
*I have a friend that went to FLA to work on his summer home there.*
*If I recall correctly, the licensing requirements are much more slack there...my comment on the torch was a joke, when I stated "I hope" I was trying to be clear.*

*I will likely be corrected, but I think my friend told me homeowners can do their own plumbing, and plumbing work is done under a general contracting or home improvement license of some type.*

*James brings to light a thing I've heard about in Cali...GC's can do their own plumbing (& electrical?) as long as they're doing three or more trades at the same job...freaking bizarre one there...LOADS of room for loopholes and cutting corners.*

*Hopefully the inspectors are more scrutinizing of the work by non licensed plumbers.*

*I've also heard that some states are more lenient on gas work than plumbing...thats real scary...makes NO sense whatsoever to go easier on gas when it can be so much more dangerous.*


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

wrenchman said:


> Your confusing that with the mexican rule: if you have a pickup and hammer you can call yourself a contractor. And the USA will pick up the tab for your kids health care.


*Ok, OK...fine...I guess they gonna sneak in no matter what.*
*All I'd like at this point is to NOT have to shuffle through freaking MFG manuals in a dark basement that are half written in Spanish.*


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

J87513 said:


> 5. My question is how much would a trainee plumber in an apprenticeship program make an hour?


In the apprenticeship program in Arkansas, the master plumber that sponsors the apprentice signs a document that spells out wages. The journeyman wage is set by the master plumber based on his discretion.

1year = 50% of journeyman
2year = 60% of journeyman
3rd year = 75% journeyman
4th year = 95% of journeyman

A fourth year apprentice is allowed to work unsupervised on a job alone, just like a journeyman. If there is another apprentice on the job, regardless of level, then there must be a 1 for 1 supervision of journeymen/master plumbers to apprentices.

An apprentice is required to take classes for four years on his own time and work in the trade full time. Joint Apprenticeship committees are set up to certify this happens and the state records your levels/grades. Once you have completed the program, you're eligible to test for your journeyman's license. After one year as a journeyman, you're eligible to sit for your master's license.

Please note, this is for non-union plumbers. I have no idea how the union apprentice plumbers wages are set.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Double-A said:


> Please note, this is for non-union plumbers. I have no idea how the union apprentice plumbers wages are set.


The same way, it is a percentage of journeyman's scale, the percentages are a bit lower than those you posted, as a 4th year apprentice makes 85%, I think that is done to motivate them to pass their license exam before they get their jouneyman raise.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*I was going to comment, at 95% I'd wager there's a large percentage of 5th and 6th year apprentices.*


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *I was going to comment, at 95% I'd wager there's a large percentage of 5th and 6th year apprentices.*


In Il. your only allowed 6 years, if you haven't passed the license exam by then you have to start over.


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## J87513 (Jan 15, 2007)

Hey Double A, your state of Arkansas is rediculous. You don't need four freakin' years to become a journeyman plumber. The rules in your state are too damb complicated.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

J87513 said:


> Hey Double A, your state of Arkansas is rediculous. You don't need four freakin' years to become a journeyman plumber. The rules in your state are too damb complicated.


In all the years you went to school you couldn't learn to spell, you might need more than 4 years.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

As far as setting traps goes, what kind of furbearers do you have that far south? I've got a bunch of older conibears in my garage which I might sell ya.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *I was going to comment, at 95% I'd wager there's a large percentage of 5th and 6th year apprentices.*


There are, unfortunately, but the folks that employee them get rough with them. Most will not see a dime raise until they pass that test. Bear in mind, the 95% wage is the entry wage of a journeyman, not the average, and, its set by the master, not the DoL or state.



J87513 said:


> Hey Double A, your state of Arkansas is rediculous. You don't need four freakin' years to become a journeyman plumber. The rules in your state are too damb complicated.


You do need four 'freakin' years if you want to become a plumber in this state. Sorry, pal. It is what it is.

Rules are always complicated, that's why its called "life" and not "existence". :w00t:


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## J87513 (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm just talking about the stupid state of Arkansas, I'm not knocking you down.

Who's complaining about my spelling? In American slang the hard "G" is sometimes not pronounced when verbally communicating.

Mee nowz how tu spel.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

J87513 said:


> I'm just talking about the stupid state of Arkansas, I'm not knocking you down.


*You couldn't knock him down, guy knows his trade.*
*From what he says, his state doesn't sound stupid at all, stupid would be having an apprenticeship with bare guidelines that let any knowitall hack slip through the cracks in short time.*
*My stupid state requires 5 years, 500 hours of school.*
*Sounds like you might wanna go right down to your states plumbing board and set 'em straight.*
*Stupid, silly, meaningless rules...heck all ya need is a torch and a wrench to be a plumber.*


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

No,no,no,no..You guys are all wrong...
There are three rules to plumbing.

1.Poop runs *down *hill.

2.Don't bite your fingernails.

3.Payday is Friday.

That's it.............:laughing:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

JumboJack said:


> No,no,no,no..You guys are all wrong...
> There are three rules to plumbing.
> 
> 1.Poop runs *down *hill.
> ...


You forgot one.

4. He may be a jack ass, but he's still your boss.


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## All Clear Sewer (Nov 8, 2006)

in kansas it`s 

12-1509

(e) Before sitting for the standard examination designated by K.S.A. 12-1508, and amendments thereto, an applicant for a journeyman certificate shall demonstrate documented proof of a minimum of two years field experience. "Field experience" means working under the direct supervision of a person having a valid journeyman certificate or master certificate or attending trade related schooling. No more than one year of the requirement may be satisfied by trade related schooling. Schooling shall consist of a minimum of 240 hours classroom training. 
(f) Before sitting for the standard examination designated by K.S.A. 12-1508, and amendments thereto, an applicant for a master certificate shall demonstrate documented proof of having a valid journeyman certificate for a minimum of two years or having field experience for a minimum of four years.


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## J87513 (Jan 15, 2007)

well guys I just got a new job in my trade so I don't think I'm going to try and learn plumbing.

I just would like to know more than one trade for job security.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Double-A said:


> You forgot one.
> 
> 4. He may be a jack ass, but he's still your boss.


He forgot two.

2. Stink goes up.


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## RopeaGoat (Sep 21, 2007)

Proof that small miracles occur daily. Let's have a moment of silence to thank God he's reconsidered plumbing and went back to making large puddles in perfectly good backyards. AMEN


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## J87513 (Jan 15, 2007)

shut the **** up ropeagoat


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Can we try to be a little more respectful on this forum. I know I've been overboard a few times myself, and I blame myself also, but we need to stop the BS talk. We are professionals and need to post like them.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Agreed.

Thread closed.


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