# upstairs bathroom floor joist hanging on by a thread



## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

this is the upstairs bathroom over the attached garage. I will be taking out the shower pan and tile surround due to bad tile job and installing 3 piece surround and pan. Someone didn't seem to think keeping the floor joist were all that important under a bathroom.  LOL 
I will be hanging drywall to finish garage under this bathroom once this issue is corrected. i would like to know opinions and thoughts on how you would block it or support it etc ? Besides the obvious redesign bathroom and placement of shower and toilet i think i can move shower stall drain with offset or bump it out further in the enclosure but the toilet drain cut out is really another issue any suggestions besides hiring an engineer. We all have come across some things like this. I know no two are alike but just looking for input. I would normally call my father but can't do that anymore since he passed away. I miss talking shop with him. Glad to have found this sight a while back . So thanks in advance for your input. picture should be next. I know its hard to everything from a photo but the drain ties into laundry room drain and vent which is right below and on other side of wall


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

since i was cut off from responding to those that chimed in on other thread i would like to say thanks. I realize what should have been done IE: blocking in or framing in a plumbing box.but it wasn't and obviously i feel lots of mistakes made but not going to point fingers I really just wanted to now how you would go about correcting now. Single of mother of 5 kids is the customer and budget in tight. that being said has anyone any thoughts on metal strapping used to reinforce joist that got hacked? seems that would help solve my problem with out reworking the plumbing. I am not asking what should have been done but now im looking for how to solve problem. the metal strapping does anyyone know the gauge ? I have only seen a couple of times


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

I found this strapping after last post and would like to know if any other "pro" has used and thought web sight is www.nolan-engineering.com or instafooting.com. I will not solve the issue with the shower drain but i think i can deal with that another way and then I will be able to use but would like opinions. Thanks again to those that respond in advance. Maybe moderator will allow me to respond to your comments without closing topic. One can hope


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

That strap isn't going to work for you, the hole is too close to the end to get in enough screws.

https://www.metwood.com/joist-reinforcers/


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

hdavis said:


> That strap isn't going to work for you, the hole is too close to the end to get in enough screws.
> 
> https://www.metwood.com/joist-reinforcers/


you may have a point i will check into that any suggestions otherwise?


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

The Metwood ones are limited to one per joist and I believe they have to be a minimum of 12" away from a bearing point. I've used the Metwood and just recently used the one from Nolan.


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

Do you realize when you're taking about strapping, I see two young girls in bra tops?


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

Advertisement!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Easiest and cheapest is cut out the plumbing, sister on some new joists, then cut for the plumbing correctly.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

PCI said:


> Advertisement!


. Not sure what u mean but i posted link for opinion of product is that advertising?


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

PCI said:


> Do you realize when you're taking about strapping, I see two young girls in bra tops?


Try and remember topic and clear your mind of other and you may see differently


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

The easiest and cheapest thing to do, obviously, is to leave it as it is.

Frankly, if it is not causing any real works problems at this time then it may never cause a problem. I would like to be able to have an engineered solution for it but let's be real here. If the customer can't afford it then she can't afford it.

I might just strap it on the bottom and call it as done as it will get at this time. Maybe add some full height blocking where possible.

Andy.

P.S. Maybe PCI had a stroke or took some magic mushrooms.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

hdavis said:


> Easiest and cheapest is cut out the plumbing, sister on some new joists, then cut for the plumbing correctly.


sistering full length of joist? 12 ft beam to beam That was my first thought i guess i was hoping for an easier way to reinforce and not a plumber but i assume you mean cut joist correctly and reinstall plumbing?


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> The easiest and cheapest thing to do, obviously, is to leave it as it is.
> 
> Frankly, if it is not causing any real works problems at this time then it may never cause a problem. I would like to be able to have an engineered solution for it but let's be real here. If the customer can't afford it then she can't afford it.
> 
> ...


I hear ya but i prefer giving options and making them aware of issues that will be hidden and could cause more expensive repair later. Taking out shower now so now would be the time in my opinion
and finishing the garage


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> The easiest and cheapest thing to do, obviously, is to leave it as it is.
> 
> Frankly, if it is not causing any real works problems at this time then it may never cause a problem. I would like to be able to have an engineered solution for it but let's be real here. If the customer can't afford it then she can't afford it.
> 
> ...


I wanted to do blocking too and double joist and blocking but if sistering full length of joist may not need blocking. btw no joist on toilet side as that is where pitch of roof changes from a hip still to a gable roof . strapping blocking was answer i was wanting just not sure if best . I like all opinions and know not one answer is always the only answer to some extent.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

If you sister a joist against the existing joists with the holes, aren't you still going to have to put holes/notches in the sisters? The holes/notches will still be oversized for prescriptive holes/notches. Unless you cut the plumbing and drop it into a soffit you can frame on the garage ceiling.

Andy.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

scipioafricanus said:


> if you sister a joist against the existing joists with the holes, aren't you still going to have to put holes/notches in the sisters? The holes/notches will still be oversized for prescriptive holes/notches. Unless you cut the plumbing and drop it into a soffit you can frame on the garage ceiling.
> 
> Andy.


3 inch round hole not 6 inch square hole and shower 2 in (maye be able to solve shower drain issue with off set ) a 12 joist and not within 1/2 inch at top of joist would be ideal i was hoping to use the strapping to but maybe too much to ask from strapping just a pita to cut and redo plumbing to soffit into wall where it ties in is way more plumbing to do so not as simple but again if hole drilled correctly down from the top 1/2 in to 3inches down 4 inch allowed on a 12 in right?


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> If you sister a joist against the existing joists with the holes, aren't you still going to have to put holes/notches in the sisters? The holes/notches will still be oversized for prescriptive holes/notches. Unless you cut the plumbing and drop it into a soffit you can frame on the garage ceiling.
> 
> Andy.


if strapping like the one i listed i would strap above the toilet drain to reinforce top portion of joist i was thinking on side like manufacture of strapping showed


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

I think that you would be better off strapping the underside of the joists rather than the top.

Andy.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

here is what i was referring to look at around 9.34 minute mark


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

How much headroom can you give up under these joists? Can you attach a 2x6 flat to the bottom the entire length creating an upside down “T”?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Drywallchic said:


> sistering full length of joist? 12 ft beam to beam That was my first thought i guess i was hoping for an easier way to reinforce and not a plumber but i assume you mean cut joist correctly and reinstall plumbing?





ScipioAfricanus said:


> If you sister a joist against the existing joists with the holes, aren't you still going to have to put holes/notches in the sisters? The holes/notches will still be oversized for prescriptive holes/notches. Unless you cut the plumbing and drop it into a soffit you can frame on the garage ceiling.
> 
> Andy.


Sistering 6-8' would be plenty. Eyeball says you can probably meet code for the holes. Eyeball may be wrong.

If you just want to make it less springy, plenty of solid blocking at least a couple bays each side of those studs.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

EricBrancard said:


> How much headroom can you give up under these joists? Can you attach a 2x6 flat to the bottom the entire length creating an upside down “T”?


i considered something like that as if making an i beam but not a flat 2x6 a 
and not ideal for hanging drywall


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Drywallchic said:


> i considered something like that as if making an i beam but not a flat 2x6 a
> and not ideal for hanging drywall


2x4 or 2x6 on flat. You’d do it across the entire ceiling plane. Screwed and glued. Similar strength to sistering.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

hdavis said:


> Sistering 6-8' would be plenty. Eyeball says you can probably meet code for the holes. Eyeball may be wrong.
> 
> If you just want to make it less springy, plenty of solid blocking at least a couple bays each side of those studs.


from beam to just past shower drain is a little over 4 ft


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

correct me if i am wrong but once you cut joist like this at shower drain and then again within top 1/2 inch at toilet drain that makes that particular joist worthless as its strength has been reduced to a 2 x 4 at toilet drain and a less at shower drain. When i pull subfloors in bathrooms from water damage i always block around toilet and give more support as usually in older homes needed from neglect etc but like i said on far side on toilet drain side there isnt another joist but just wall studs. It is where pitch of roof changes and assume that its why .and staircase just to the right of this plumbing about 7' from far left beam. geeze im confusing myself hope you can follow what im saying


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

EricBrancard said:


> 2x4 or 2x6 on flat. You’d do it across the entire ceiling plane. Screwed and glued. Similar strength to sistering.


yes that would be a lot of extra glued screwed 2xwhatever to every joist to get even for drywall there has got to be a better way


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

hdavis said:


> Sistering 6-8' would be plenty. Eyeball says you can probably meet code for the holes. Eyeball may be wrong.
> 
> If you just want to make it less springy, plenty of solid blocking at least a couple bays each side of those studs.


you feel better than strapping or metal plate attached to side of joist above toilet drain ?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Drywallchic said:


> you feel better than strapping?


By strapping you mean screwing a metal step to the underside of the joist, yes.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

hdavis said:


> By strapping you mean screwing a metal step to the underside of the joist, yes.


“Strapping” generally refers to running 1x material perpendicular to the bottom of joists.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

hdavis said:


> By strapping you mean screwing a metal step to the underside of the joist, yes.


yes metal plate but you think on underside joist best for metal plate? did you look at video from manufacture of joist reinforcement i posted?


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

hdavis said:


> By strapping you mean screwing a metal step to the underside of the joist, yes.


nolanengineering calls it a strap but strap or metal plate sorry for confusion.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

will probably go with sister and blocking but was hoping for easier way of reinforcing with metal plate and not having to cut and redo plumbing. but if not doable i will sister and block


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Prescriptive would be sistering, engineered you could maybe use a metal plate. I don't consider that easier or cheaper.

Cheapest and easiest is to do what Scipio said, and just out some solid blocking in and move on.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

another photo for viewing pleasure


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

I am curious, what is the length that those floor joists span?


Andy.


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## Drywallchic (Jul 6, 2017)

scipioafricanus said:


> i am curious, what is the length that those floor joists span?
> 
> 
> Andy.


12ft


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## Gking707 (May 5, 2017)

I would remove the pipes and sister a board to it with 1/2 bolts 16 o.c. then bore with a hole saw the pipes through it.


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