# Storm Chasers



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

:furious: Had a nice hail storm come through our area awhile back with upto 3" nasty jagged hail that fell for a good 20-30 minutes. Anyways, in our area (under 5 minute drive from my house in any direction) I've never seen soo friggin many different roofing company signs pop up...it's nutz!! I counted 6 different companies 6 houses in a row-literally LOL!!

I've been wtching how some of these fools are doing their work and living upto the name of storm chasers since they'll be leaving behind shoody work as usual. You'l think in this day and age with all the storm chaser stories folks would get a figgin clue, but like always btm dollar wins out. 2 layer tear off was quoted to a buddies buddy at $50/sq for labor    I dont see how they can afford to drive back and forth to the hotel doing it that cheaply.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Same thing here when the fly by night roofers show up. There was a wipe out storm toward OKC a few years ago, and I understand one local roofer sold out his business (basically a phone number, long established) for 200k...just so one of the out of town roofing company could claim legitimacy..it must be a big business now from all the billboards I see advertising. It is incredible the number of guys that will become expert roofers overnight and live out of a suitcase.


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

joasis is exactly right. A local contractor here did the same thing. the chasers gave him a % commission for the use of his company name. Bad thing is... He lost all that commission & more in order to pay for the bigger leased office, and all the repair & warranty work. The chaser has never been seen around here again. They hired all illegal mexicans and one crew could do 2 small ranch houses per day. 

The local contractor was (and still is) struggling to get work (bad reputation). So when he was approached by the chaser and given the offer of commission for using his name, he took the bait. BTW, the local had 2 ads in the yellow pages, which is how the chaser found him. The chaser just went through the list calling all contractors.


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## mattp (Apr 5, 2006)

$50.00 a square tear off and replace. That's cheap I could maybe install the shingles for that.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Storm chasing is huge money and a scurge to the industry. A few years ago we were getting calls to sell the business. Many did. They have since folded, but that was the plan. Work it until there is nothing left, or the next huge storm hits, and fold for the greener pastures. 

When ever I advertise for salespeople, I get many calls "What kind of storm are you working?"

When ever I advertise for subs, I get many calls "How many houses do you have sold? WHat kind of storm was it?"

You should put your sign out front of your house, with huge letters "locally owned!"


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

These wannabe companies are alot of trouble, but they create alot of jobs for us when things need to be fixed and they are long gone. When it is insurance money, homeowners get greedy and want to pocket alot of money. This system has to be changed. I'm not sure it is even legal.

In my area now, there are still some storm damage houses around from last year. The economy is slowing and there are very few new houses being built. Because of this, there are alot of framers turning into professional roofers and siders overnight. This type of thing is almost as bad as the storm chasers.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Drove down to Northfield to bid a couple recently and was blown away by all the roofing signs all over the place. Not only are the out of town guys in on it but big names like ABC Roofing, Sela, Western, Tacheny, etc.

Last week saw five crews working on roofs already in the area I visited and all were 100% white so it must be the local guys. When the storm chasers start working the Mex will come to town.


Adjusters are urging homeowners to sign nothing with out of state contractors. The city inspectors are removing out of state signs on public property. One homeowner I talked to said a guy with a new black truck had Got Hail? phone number on the side of truck written with a white for sale marker driving slowly up and down streets. 

The hail damage was amazing. Vents with no tops, shingles with holes in them through the decking. Gutters smashed down flat. Steel siding with large dents. Most vehicles in the hail storm were complete insurance losses.

Either this weekend or beginning of next week will be job number 1. Wonder how much decking will need to be replaced?


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I have heard of one "wannabe" contractor going around and saying that the roofs will leak unless he goes up and duct tapes the holes. In order for him to do this the homeowner has to sign a contract with them. Nothing but scams.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

MJW said:


> I have heard of one "wannabe" contractor going around and saying that the roofs will leak unless he goes up and duct tapes the holes. In order for him to do this the homeowner has to sign a contract with them. Nothing but scams.


Yeah the rule of the storm chasing game is anything to make them sign. What you are signing is away all your legal rights to negotiate with your insurance company, and giving the storm chaser power of attorney to negotiate "in your favor". You never see a check, it goes right to the storn chaser.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

When the storms hit here, my existing customers get first run, and I usually do not take on storm repairs, simply due to our regular schedule insn't going to get compromised. One other thing I have noted about storm damage and the local contracting scene is the guys who will call...who have never used you before, and promise they have some big project coming up, and can you please help them out? Sure...help them out and chances are excellent you will not be called for their next project...short term memory applies here.


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## Shingle Monkey (Feb 20, 2006)

joasis said:


> When the storms hit here, my existing customers get first run, and I usually do not take on storm repairs, simply due to our regular schedule insn't going to get compromised. One other thing I have noted about storm damage and the local contracting scene is the guys who will call...who have never used you before, and promise they have some big project coming up, and can you please help them out? Sure...help them out and chances are excellent you will not be called for their next project...short term memory applies here.


I call that "betting on the come" It took me a few years to figure out that game.

I never bid on what might come...its a waste of my time:thumbsup:


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

joasis said:


> One other thing I have noted about storm damage and the local contracting scene is the guys who will call...who have never used you before, and promise they have some big project coming up, and can you please help them out? Sure...help them out and chances are excellent you will not be called for their next project...short term memory applies here.


We call it "selective amnesia"


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

I was in New Market and Northfield today no local crews - local companies using sobs' . The worst is yet to come 1 - 2 years down the line there will be no work for us local guys. both Northern and southern suburbs were hit in the past year. Every lead i have run in the Twin Cities has some company telling them they have hail damage regardless if they do or not.

Adjusters driving around with local roofing companies giving money away. How can this be legal?

These companies are sending out 40 door knockers and 20 salesmen canvas entire towns in a day. Most people sign contracts that are open ended no prices no description of work. on the promise of getting new roofing and siding plus a kickback or cover deductable. Bigger companies with large pocket books are giving $500 - $1000.00 to post signs in homeowners yard and signing bonus introduction to neighbor refferal fee.. Making it up with the adjustment obviously.

What to do? Seriously thinking about doing it myself if i don't we will be in rough shape 1-2 years down the road. Fighting the 1000 other local companies over small repair jobs from the crappy workmanship.


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

Oh it's only been a week i am already too late to join in. there are signs everywhere. You would think my phone would ring i ran full page ads last 2 weeks in a row plus direct mailings to both areas. But no every homeowner i meet has said they have at least 2 people a day knock their door sometimes as many as 5 or 6. and not just once but the same company several times over a week period.


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## Shingle Monkey (Feb 20, 2006)

Do you not have a customer base?

Our hail storm in Indy was 5 months ago and we are still getting calls for estimates.


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

About 7 years worth most of my roofs were quality roofs 1-2 inch hail does not really affect timberlines that are under 10 years old. i do have business now i am booked out a week and a half on estimates. My problem is all the work will be gone in 1- 2 years. Does'nt really matter that i have 3 times as much work this time of year as i normally do what matters is i will be out of work almost completely in 1-2 years.


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

Same thing happened here in 1998 ther were hardley any storm chasers then and we got 4 good years and 3 bad til now. Funny thing is i have been roofing since 1989 and until 1998 we did no hail claims and we get hail here every year why is it now nobody ever has to buy a roof themselves. pre 98 people figured this was normal wear and tear on a roof.


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

How many of you get banks and loan officers calling you asking you if you want to borrow money or refinance? How many letters from credit card companies do you get in the mail these people want to loan us money and they are almost desparate at it.

You think the insurace companies figured out how to get us that loan we did not want or the credit we did not want? more claims higher payments for everyone


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Sort of like the "El Nino" scare. 

For almost 100 years of weather forecasting, and 40 years of radio and TV weather reports, no one cared. Then in one year, everyone and their mother had serious 'El Nino' related problems. Dan Rather couldn't do a newscast without using the phrase at least twice for about 18 months there. 

I think its just some fancy money and willingness on the part of the companies to put feet on the ground in that area to saturate and 'educate' the consumer on hail damage.


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

What a scam free money my $ss


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Boy , I can't wait to see the squabble to get work in Rogers after the tornado this weekend. I laugh when I see them trying to get work because they have no work. hahahaha


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I sub tear offs from a company who will be doing a lot of work up that way. Superior Construction Services out of Maple Grove. Gertans (sp?) will also be up there for sure. A friend of mine's brother in laws run Gertans and they all roofing to a company called RoofCo, not sure if you guys have heard of them or not. They don't advertise or put up signs but the owner who's in his 30's runs a fleet of 80 dumpsters for his Mexican roofing crews. They work all across the country. This guy sounds like a roofing pimp!!! My father met him while working on an insurance job for Gertans last Fall in the NorthWest storm area. At sundown the lights came on to repair the commercial retail store that sustainted winds of up to 100 mph.

The temps are paid $10-15 an hour and the insurance company pays close to $100 an hour.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

dougger222 said:


> I sub tear offs from a company who will be doing a lot of work up that way. Superior Construction Services out of Maple Grove. Gertans (sp?) will also be up there for sure. A friend of mine's brother in laws run Gertans and they all roofing to a company called RoofCo, not sure if you guys have heard of them or not. They don't advertise or put up signs but the owner who's in his 30's runs a fleet of 80 dumpsters for his Mexican roofing crews. They work all across the country. This guy sounds like a roofing pimp!!! My father met him while working on an insurance job for Gertans last Fall in the NorthWest storm area. At sundown the lights came on to repair the commercial retail store that sustainted winds of up to 100 mph.
> 
> The temps are paid $10-15 an hour and the insurance company pays close to $100 an hour.



Being a sub is part of the problem. Why do you have a license, if you're gonna sub. Don't feed the sharks. I am firm believer, if you bid the work, do the work. 

And No, I have never heard of these companies, because they are not roofing companies if you ask me. I have seen too many flip flop wearing, slicked hair salesman calling themselves roofers I could puke. Most know how to sell to an ignorant howeowner, but have never sinched a toolbelt on in their life.
Could call them triple P's.....Pencil Pushin' Pimps.. LOL!!!


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I wanted to get into a large restoration company for work in the future just in case, you never know. The profit is good on the sub jobs but not like the regular tear offs.

The only advantage to subbing is you don't have to pull the permit or make a sale with the homeowner.

Superior is a great company to sub from though. They pay what you want and there customer satisfaction is the best in the business. They only get paid once the customer is 100% satisfied and the inspections are passed. The owner is a nice guy. I'm told the main roofer pulls in around 2 million a year from Superior, not a bad gig if you ask me. All I know is for the first time in 15 years there's another roofer digging into the pot!!!

The saleseman I deal with is my cousin in law and he's pretty good at what he does. He's teaching me about sales and presentations on every job we work together on. He's spent the last 6 years working for insurance restoration companies so he's really learned his way around the adjusters.

When I get a call from a homeowner with hail other than there roof I get in touch with my Superior guy and I get the roof for the full insurance dollars and they get the rest. At least I know the homeowner will be happy with all the work done on there home this way.

But your right, there not really roofers there's just pimps! My idea of a roofer is a person who's on a roof for a full time job making his living working. 

BTW, I have to be licensed to sub from Superior and have a 2 million dollar roofing liablity policy with a million dollar policy on the work vehicles.

Well gotta go finish a tear off today before the rain comes and try to paper in a 7/12 new construction roof. On Sunday I'll finally get a break, going to Lake of the Woods for a few days then Two Harbors.


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## RidgeWalker (Nov 1, 2006)

Alot of the comments made about the storm chasers are sad but true. I worked in this business as a salesman for a few years before lighting out on my own.

I'd personally like to see some changes in the insurance restoration industry becuase of the way some of my peers do business. Like buying out a local name, that is complete crapola in my opinion. It's an easy way to not take responsibility for your mistakes. Granted there is nothing illegal about it, business are bought out by other business's all the time.

The low bid mentality are the one's who are the true scurge of the restoration industry in my opinion. They use $$$ as the motivating factor in making a sale, instead of quality products and installation. The latter by the way the home owner pays for every month with thier insurance premium! The home owner should not get anything less from thier insurance company or thier contractor.

Also about working with the home owners insurance company to get agreed pricing for the roofing is common and reasonable. Almost every home owner has no clue what they are really owed for thier damages. Almost every home owner believes that the initial settlement they are given by thier insurance company is fair. In most cases it's not. 

The reason they believe this is becuase the insurance industry spends billions every year for TV & Radio ads to build trust and faith in the population, so why would they suspect anything less when they have a large claim.

Case in point, and you MN guys might know this. The hail storm in 98 caused alot of siding damage. Old 8 inch aluminum siding in colors no longer available. Farmers ended up getting sued because it was contested that they owed for the un-damaged sides of the siding.

The case against the insurance company was won, and Farmers and every other insurance company had to go back and pay for the undamaged sides. Did they loose becuase the policy said they owed for it? No. They lost becuase it was determined that the publics confidence and faith in the insurance industry would be lost. How's that? Becuase of the faith and confidence the insurance industry builds in thier marketing efforts. So it was determined that they engaged in unfair and deceptive trade practices, and that's why they lost.

Also it's illegal for any one to get money back from an insurance claim. These contractors giving money back are breaking the law and committing insurance fraud and so is the home owner. 

Our policy is to get an agreed price with the insurance company and that's the price that goes on the contract to the penny. Any home owner who want's it differant we tell them we can't do business with them.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I agree it is fraud and I hate it. The homeowners believe this ins. money is theirs and to do with it what they please. Now the check goes through mortgage companies to make sure the work is done. This is still wrong. It should go directly to the contractor, which some of you already do. We have had people forge our name to get the money and we don't even do the job and neither do they. This is probably the reasoning to get the mortgage company involved. All this started from storm chasers. If local companies do the work there would be much less trouble. One job we just got paid on we did back in July. This is how much trouble this has made for the contractors. When the storm hit Rogers, we didn't even go. Most of the jobs go to storm chasers. Why deal with it. Next year we can go and make more money fixing what they did wrong and do less work.


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## RidgeWalker (Nov 1, 2006)

@ MJW,

It's not that stormchasers per say are the only guilty parties. But more accurately the guilty parties are weak salesmen who entice the home owners by giving away or not including the deductibles when they get an agreed price with the insurance company.

These salesman are not really salesman at all, they are give away artist's. They give away free ridge vent, or shingle upgrades becuase they are WEAK. These are the ones who ruin the market and give the home owner a missrepresentation of the true cost's of being a contractor today.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Most salesman are WEAK if you ask me. They talk the talk, but the "workers" walk the walk. How hard is it to sell something they need that is basically free. With a repuation and references, you won't need much of a salesman. It's called work......not sales. sales is for the lumber yard boy behind the desk.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

MJW said:


> Most salesman are WEAK if you ask me. They talk the talk, but the "workers" walk the walk. How hard is it to sell something they need that is basically free. With a repuation and references, you won't need much of a salesman. It's called work......not sales. sales is for the lumber yard boy behind the desk.


Do you guys, by any chance, price by "the going rate"?

I have to 100% disagree with MJW's statement. I have to sell my work and perform it. Doing the jobs is about half the work in a roofing company.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

My cousin in law who's an estimator for Superior Const. Services gets down on me for giving free upgrades and knocking off money towards deductables.

He's teaching me things I need to practice more often such as doing highly detailed diagrams of the roofs and then taking that information into the Exactimate software and comparing that to what the insurance adjuster has come up with. 

With his techniques I did $7,000 in 3 hours on three jobs the other day sitting in the office, money most roofing contractors would have missed out on. One of these days I'll get my own Exactimate version on the laptop.

My brother who's also a roofer looks at the insurance paperwork and says, "it looks great when can I start". I keep trying to tell him there's more than what meets the eye.


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## RidgeWalker (Nov 1, 2006)

I have to dissagree with MJW statement as well. I good salemen knows how to sell a job cleanly. If you don't know what that mean in terms of sales you definatly haven't arrived yet.

Going rate is very subjective Aaron. One roofers rates may be differant for many differant reasons. I run into this all the time with insurance companies telling me they have 20 contractors who will do my clients job all day long for X/per square. This is why we started using Xactimate, it's the most comprehensive and fair way to scope a job. Xactimate dictates the pricing to all it's user's, unless your like State Farm who get's thier own special price list. That's all together another subject.

The problem as I see it in the roofing industry is that you have alot of pick up truck roofers who bid jobs much less becusae they have the cheap mentality. I however am the exact opposite, if I had my way I'd get $270/sq for a single layer 25yr roof up to 8/12.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

I am only doing repair work residential now, since all (it seems) of the competition do the old subcontractor scam....if theyre really subcontractors, their empoyees arent, and cannot possibly do it properly here for the rates theyre charging. I know this for a fact cuz I go through entire subdivisions fixing the same mistakes over and over and over again.

What I call the "going rate" is what the uninsured lowballers charge, and have no GL or comp. A worker will get hurt agagin and another homeowner sued for all their possessions.


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

going rate here starts about $400. to 450 a square once you break it down. there are some in the 300 or 350 a square bracket but they are not apples to apples. There are three parts to a roofing business
sales, production and administration. or somtimes put
getting the work, doing the work and getting the money and paying the bills.

RooferJim


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## RidgeWalker (Nov 1, 2006)

$400-$450/sq for what kind of roofing.


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## BRNDIVY (Oct 17, 2006)

IHI said:


> I've been wtching how some of these fools are doing their work and living upto the name of storm chasers since they'll be leaving behind shoody work as usual. You'l think in this day and age with all the storm chaser stories folks would get a figgin clue, but like always btm dollar wins out. 2 layer tear off was quoted to a buddies buddy at $50/sq for labor    I dont see how they can afford to drive back and forth to the hotel doing it that cheaply.


 
We do work for few companies in Indy and have to agree that there are bunch out there doing sh***y work. 
I have a crew out there right now and I have not heard of one job that has went smoothly. The company we are working with right now is redoing another company's work.

Brenda


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

it's not just storm chasers,there are plenty of idiots out there.I've been on a few warranty jobs done by very reputable companies that were sub standard workmanship.
I try not to compete with the cheaper companies,they are gonna get the jobs were price is the factor.Most of the contrators I do work for are more concerned about the quality,and my price really doesn't become a issue.when I do start contracting (5yrs maybe)I plan to market myself to the people I want to do work for.I can't see running around and giving 10 estimates for jobs I know I won't get cause of price.right now I'm gonna shingle while I can.by the time I get tired of it(too late)I will have a few years here behind me of great quality work and healthy relationships with the builders,contractors and homeowners.


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

Timberline 30 or the equal. three tabs are very very rare to install and we would charge the same or more for a three tab install. Timberline Ultra is an upgrade. closer to Boston they get more

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I understand everyones viewpoints and respect them. Here is an example of a job we just lost to a storm chaser.
It was a 2 layer job, one asphalt one wood shakes. Then putting down 40 yr. Landmarks. The customer had his own materials. Normally we never do this, but this guy seemed real reasonable to work with and was a union cement man. He whined how his company was losing jobs to low-ballers and such. Anyhow, we had the job set for the following week. He calls the day before we start and says he got a "company" to do his job for half our price!!! Our price was very reasonable at $200 a square labor. How can anyone do a job for $100 a square labor!??!!And 2 layers...............
Try selling to a guy like that. Whines about his jobs and turns into a hipocrit (sp).


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

25 yr. roof.......????????????????What is that??


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

That's funny, he's complaining about low-ballers and what does he do? He hires himself a LOW BALLER.

I'm sorry I don't have time for low ballers. Just looked at a roof my father and I were too late to bid. As soon as we got off the ladder and on the roof we knew it was a hack job at it's finest. Sad to see all that insurance money was wasted.

Loosing some jobs to Mexicans (low ballers) and I don't care. The smart homeowners the one's I like to work for always wait out the storm and choice the "right" roofing contractor. The rest are "suckers" and get sold by fast talking salesman. Did I mention I don't run door to door, put signs in peoples yards? I can't stand salesmen trying to pass as "roofers". No longer go to phone book jobs unless I've got nothing better to do or I have a good feeling about them over the phone. Most roofs bids take an hour on the road, half an hour on the roof and an hour in the office.

None of my tear offs are with three tabs. I don't try to sell an upcharge for Landmark 30's it's all I lay and would rather lay them than three tabs. Next roof is for a guy who resides on the Minnewonkaton community near Mystic Lake and his wife has opted on Chestnut Landmark Premiums. 60 sq 4/12.

With X-actimate most roofs average $315-450 per square one layer. You have to do very detailed drawings too since some "lazy" adjusters like to have you fax your diagram to them rather than go back to the house a second time. 

BTW, my cousin in law has just hit $2,000,000 in sales on the year through Superior Construction Services. Did 15 roofs for him so far this year and another 3 for his boss the owner and have about 1,000 sq's ready to go. Wish I would have gotten connected with him early this year rather than this Summer.


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

there is nothing wrong with 3 tabs,takes a roofer to put them on straight,but they have lasted many years before laminates.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

RidgeWalker said:


> Alot of the comments made about the storm chasers are sad but true. I worked in this business as a salesman for a few years before lighting out on my own.
> 
> I'd personally like to see some changes in the insurance restoration industry becuase of the way some of my peers do business. Like buying out a local name, that is complete crapola in my opinion. It's an easy way to not take responsibility for your mistakes. Granted there is nothing illegal about it, business are bought out by other business's all the time.
> 
> ...


Respect is griven to you sir.


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## Ten Fingers (Nov 5, 2006)

Last summer we had hail and all the storm chasers came. On one roof job we did, the customer said their neighbor had their roof done by a storm chasing crew of mexicans. They did the roof, collected money for the job, left town, and didn't pay the lumber yard. Lumber yard sued the HO. Besides that, my customer didn't appreciate all the crew's cussing and swearing next door. To top it off, she looked out her kitchen window and saw one of the crew peeing on the roof.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

*HOs get to use my price*

Old thread, but a worthy topic. The full version text from my report is long but very informative, here are just a few points included.

BTW, before I joined this forum, I checked out hail damage technological and engineering studies extensively. One very good web site by ridge walkers company which contains a very lucid definition of hail damage to asphalt roof shingles. 

Home owners usually do not realize that they are entitled to true actual out of pocket replacement costs. As long as the products being replaced are with a similar quality as they originally had which were damaged. Any upgrades, properly should come out of the home owners pocket. 

Following are some excerpts from a recent hail report I compiled for a homeowner, who is now getting over $ 28,000.00 from his insurance company after being denied by the initial adjuster and their goon engineer on a 2nd inspection, just for the damage to his roof.


*Following are various related definitions of " Hail-Caused Damage to Asphalt Shingles."
*
*Functional damage to shingle roofing have been defined as:* 

"Morrison (1999) defined damage to roofing as a diminution of water-shedding capability or a reduction in the expected long-term life of the roofing material. Marshall and Herzog (1999) more specifically defined functional hail-caused damage to asphalt shingles as punctures, tears, or fractures (bruises) in the shingle mats. Shingle bruises are an indentation with fracture in the mat that feels soft like that of an apple bruise. The bruise is usually obvious as granules are also dislodged from the impact area exposing the asphaltic mat. In some instances, granules are dislodged from the shingles to expose bitumen without shingle mat rupture. This represents a potential loss of expected service life." (Haag Engineering)

As a helpful guideline, since you stated that you had some version of Full Replacement Cost Insurance Coverage, the following information is provided by the *"Insurance Information Institute."* 

"Replacement cost provides you with the dollar amount needed to replace a damaged item with one of similar kind and quality, *without deducting for depreciation-the decrease in value due to age, obsolescence, wear and tear and other factors.* An actual cash value policy would only pay you the amount needed to replace the item, minus depreciation." Also, you should be advised that your repair and replacement costs should logically and necessarily include any costs that an insured reasonably would be expected to incur as a result of repairing or replacing an insurable covered loss.

Do quality work at your own pricing and desired profit level and do not let any 3rd party insurance company tell you how much you should be charging and how much profit you should earn.

Ridge Walker, It sounds as if you represent the roofing contractor field very well, my compliments to you.

Ed


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## confort zone (Feb 9, 2008)

*comfort zone*

I have been chasing the storms for 5yrs now because of a huge storm in my hone city, the chasers came and all the work is gone. The storm chasers in the Mn market is the help of guys like Westurn he has created a lot of them by NOT paying his sales men and the nation wide chasers thanks to the Hollinsworth family from Texas same thing NO PAY. Times are very tight and a person has to do all they can to provide for family. 
Some things to know the Ins checks DO NOT go straight to the contractor and many of the sales chasers are really good guys just like you are and they would rather be home with family working local jobs. our real problem is the Hispanic roofers thats because without them you the Americans would be doing these jobs and our Government is the culprit here by allowing it to happen as well other contractors hiring them for cheap prices in stead of the black or white man, but most do work harder than the black or white man and whose fault is that. we need to regroup and bust your as:whistling to keep your jobs and if you have to work cheaper than so be it. It all makes me sick to remember the way it was 25 yrs ago and how much PRIDE the American man brought to the industry but that has faded and most are more interested in how high or drunk them can stay not how much quality they can bring to the project . Be ready an even worst change is coming yet for us a dieing breed and the Hispanic is taking over as owners of the companies. good luck chuck :shutup:


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

comfort zone- i understand what your saying, i can see both sides of some points worth an opinionated arguement, but overall it's natural selection. Lazy guys will go out of business, cheap labor will create more work for better contractors, just makes the jobs harder to land even though the inital cause of problem is the person seeking the help in the first place. Good work is'nt cheap, but unforetunately that is also a point shadey salesmen use to suck HO's into signing a contract in the first place...bid the job like we true professionals need to, and then hire the cheapest labor they can find...skip town, and onto the next town to destroy leaving alot of pizzed of customers and local contractors to clean up the mess.

We have one customer that calls us religously after a big wind day to reinstall chunks of missing shingles...they had the roof done for a 1/3 of the going rate, took them 6 months to get it done done, and now they call us back to replace the blown off shingles regularly and complain about the shoddy workmanship....so, overall i see it as a problem with people not wanting to pay more than they have to, esspecially with insurance checks going to them, the less they pay to fix the damage, the more left over they have to blow on whatever, thus hiring fly by night, traveling pukes instead of keeping it local.

Yeah, the lil mexican's are just happy to work, decent american workers (black, white, green eetc..)all want to make more than the company owner does, but has no skill to back it up. I had one puke working with us this summer that said he was worth $18/hr (which is an outragious wage in this area for skilled trades in the first place) Told him I'll start him at $10 since everybody i've ever had working for me is "the man" at whatever i was hiring for...and just like the rest of the pukes, guy was worth about 8/hr and i **** canned him.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Well Josh! Long time no see...hope your back again!


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

joasis said:


> Well Josh! Long time no see...hope your back again!


been busy with everything else going on in life, startiing a second business to sister up current one, and in talks about a partnership for a 3rd. nothing big/major, just ways to hide mo money:thumbup:


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Has any company here been offered a buy out of their company name by a Storm Chasing Company?

I know of one contractor in the nearby area who was bought out for the name usage and he seems to be doing very well and this is going back about 7-9 years since that happened.

It does not seem as if he has suffered the pitfalls of the warranty claims due to shoddy workmanship that gets spoken about so often.

What are your experiences with Storm Chasers coming into your area?

Ed


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