# The REALITY of Service Magic



## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

CGallagher said:


> Look I have a pretty good website. But, it is meant to supplement my reputation in the community. As I see it, and past history shows, most of my new work comes from referrals of past clients, or when people drop in to one of my jobsites. My reputation is the most effective form of advertising.


 

I'm in the third largest market in the country. The best & most inexpensive form of advertising for us has been the intenet.

The best ROI for us has been our website. We didn't spend a lot of money building it all.

Two-thirds of our new work comes thru our website, the rest are referrals.:thumbup:

IMHO, SM, newspapers, yellow book, etc., are a waste of money.


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## Five Star (Jan 15, 2009)

JCL in LA CALIF said:


> Mr Five Star, please don't guess, it makes you sound very UNprofessional, what dreams are you talking about PAL?? I'm just stating facts. I though this site was for professionals.
> No I did not retire on a $2500.00 lead service cost. I've run into hard times, as most of us have in this economy.
> It seems most lead services start out a genuine service to contractors, but as they grow larger, their staff and/or attorneys seem to take the company in a different path.


Your right this is a professional forum, so why dont you try our sister DIY FORUM so you can hook up with all the SM customers!!

If times are so hard for you why dont you buy somemore leads if $50 brings you $10k jobs..i cant see why you shut the service off! or having hard times??

Im in buisness 20 yrs and 80% of my jobs are word of mouth and repeat customers :thumbsup:, the other is from advertisements which really are mostly tire kickers shopping prices!


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## CGallagher (Apr 20, 2010)

Brickie said:


> I'm in the third largest market in the country. The best & most inexpensive form of advertising for us has been the intenet.
> 
> The best ROI for us has been our website. We didn't spend a lot of money building it all.
> 
> ...


That's interesting. You mind me asking you how you get people to your site?


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

JCL in LA CALIF said:


> it makes you sound very UNprofessional....I though this site was for professionals.


This is uncalled for. You go on to state "don't guess" and then you turn around and make the statement "I thought this site was for professionals" which is worse than a guess, it's an assumption...based on 3 posts.


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## JCL in LA CALIF (Apr 29, 2010)

*SM and their tactics*



Five Star said:


> Your right this is a professional forum, so why dont you try our sister DIY FORUM so you can hook up with all the SM customers!!
> 
> If times are so hard for you why dont you buy somemore leads if $50 brings you $10k jobs..i cant see why you shut the service off! or having hard times??
> 
> Im in buisness 20 yrs and 80% of my jobs are word of mouth and repeat customers :thumbsup:, the other is from advertisements which really are mostly tire kickers shopping prices!


SMagic was great at first but over the last couple years they have gotten worse. Their leads provided are hard to get a hold of and their return policy for bunk leads seem to be next to impossible to get. This is why I will not use them.
As for hard times, I take this as part of my own doing. Most of my projects have been design-build room additions and or whole house remodels with additions, I've never really had to go out and advertise my company as my jobs came through repeat clients or friends of clients, engineers, architects and designers. The bigger jobs are not out there like they've been in the past, or at least I am not hooking them like I use to. 
At the same time I am raising my two new baby girls (4 & 2) with my wife who is employed full time. 
So I've got myself into this work rut where all my recent jobs are small and I've been doing most of the work myself.
That is why I am going to try Bid Clerk and Dodge services in lieu of SM.
Sorry about calling ya' unprofessional. Sounds like your company does real well.


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## JCL in LA CALIF (Apr 29, 2010)

*Thank you and you are correct*



framerman said:


> This is uncalled for. You go on to state "don't guess" and then you turn around and make the statement "I thought this site was for professionals" which is worse than a guess, it's an assumption...based on 3 posts.


I was just stating facts as to how my business has run and lead services have worked in the past few years.


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

CGallagher said:


> That's interesting. You mind me asking you how you get people to your site?


 

I have been submitting my site to every local business directory I can find. This site has a listing of the popular local directories:

http://www.ecommerceoptimization.com/local-business-listing-guide/

I am not affiliated with them in anyway. However, it is a nice free listing of the major directories local and otherwise.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

it's been debated over and over here, does sm suck?

I remember some years ago all in the same time frame when more than one customer approached me about their big great awesome idea that they would create a company to just sell the jobs, take a cut, and I'd do the work.

it sounded like an amazing idea yet they left out a few of the basics:

the personal element of a start to finish "relationship"
their inablity to price or understand what they are talking about
as well as the basic ubsurdity of the whole idea

invest your hard earned money and reputation on the following to let your business thrive:

1)word of mouth

2) a top dollar web site

3) search engine- I hate computers........ seo they call it... it's worth it and I haven't a clue how it works. Many claim to know this seo stuff but only a few really can do it..... belive me, I've got friends who understand that like I understand manual labor



I was wondering if the moderators can ban discussions on service magic and other internet search for contractor companies just like they ban

"mocking craiglist postings"
"how much does it cost"
"how much do I charge"
"jack azzes like myself"
etc......


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## handyhands (Sep 8, 2008)

robert c1 said:


> $50 a lead, you land 1 in 10, so you give them $500 bucks per job landed and are happy. How does that work?


 
Well, imagine if the guy is selling $30,000 Sunrooms or building houses.....

You wouldn't spend $500.00 to land a $30k job?

-Most companies are happy to keep their marketing costs under 10%.

So in that sense, (and I'm sure there will be a few of the regular self-proclaimed "know-it-alls" putting their 2 cents in,....) but I'd spend $500.00 all day long to land a $30k job.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

handyhands said:


> Well, imagine if the guy is selling $30,000 Sunrooms or building houses.....
> 
> You wouldn't spend $500.00 to land a $30k job?
> 
> ...




I got a $50,000 master bathroom remodel from a newspaper service directory advertisement once. For the other 3 years of leads that those ads generated I got average sized jobs of about $2000.00, along with every person trying to do things as cheap as possible, basically looking for a handy man type. I don't advertise in those things anymore even though I landed a 50K job once.

Check out: "opportunity cost", you'll soon discover the problem.

I'm guessing you buy into the old advertising salesman's stand by of "If you got just one job from our advertising, you would have paid for it...."


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

*Dis-Service Magic with Un-Reliable Remodeler sidekick*

Alright, I have read several post regarding SM, and I'd say all are spot on. At least down here, the leads were hot about 2~3 years ago and we had turned them off just because we were too busy to pursue them. Fast forward to last fall... ...I had decided to give the purchased leads a test run again, only this time I decided to tag-team with SM and RR simultaneously to get leads for different job types. To see how good they were, I left a pretty broad spectrum for lead types.

As others have posted, the SM lead quality was much worse than before, and RR followed suit. Then after a lot of wasted estimating time (combined between SM and RR) I started to notice a trend as I began to send in my daily refund requests in the beginning of December. 

Every time an SM lead hit my inbox, an eerily similar RR lead would drop in about 15 minutes later. Coincidence maybe every now and then, but I decided to play a hunch and snag some of these "similar" leads to verify whether or not it was coincidence or something else (evil conspiracy?). It turned out that RR was re-selling me the same garbage leads I was already recieving from SM! Same phone number, same address, same job description! Granted, it is entirely possible that a lead would put up a job request on more than one site, but ~15 duplicate leads in a row from 2 sources is not coincidence.

I stopped the bloodshed with SM immediately because, well, their leads overall were trash, and for nothing more than sheer entertainment gave my rep at RR a call about this mysterious duplicate lead situation. Naturally there was repeated denial that they buy leads from SM and that my 15 consecutive examples were an extreme fluke. I requested cancellation of my account and was promised I would be faxed some magic cancellation form by the end of the day. Yeah, the form didn't come and instead I was re-billed their "membership fee".  Upon seeing the charge I called the rep and informed him that if I did not recieve cancellation and a refund within the hour that I would call my credit card company to initiate a chargeback against RR. Like magic, account cancellation and a refund appeared in about 15 minutes. :2guns:


Morals of my true Miami story:
1) SM leads have been junk compared to 2~3 years ago
2) RR is the diseased flea on the mangy back of the SM dog for reselling me SM leads
3) when you're getting blantantly ripped-off, remember that chargeback procedures are there to protect you, the consumer from diseased fleas.


Besides, I've been stacked with referrals anyway, so I don't know what I was thinking even bothering with these guys, but hindsight always sees 20/20 right?


Ollie


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## Dao Jones (May 5, 2010)

*That's just cool dude*

Hey framerman, I think I'd like anybody who quotes Lao Tzu and has a pic of the Duke for an avatar. Some might think those two wouldn't go together, but not me. I keep a picture of John Wayne on my office wall at all times. As we used to say in the 60's (yes I'm old) God bless America and John Wayne.


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## handyhands (Sep 8, 2008)

Mike Finley said:


> I got a $50,000 master bathroom remodel from a newspaper service directory advertisement once. For the other 3 years of leads that those ads generated I got average sized jobs of about $2000.00, along with every person trying to do things as cheap as possible, basically looking for a handy man type. I don't advertise in those things anymore even though I landed a 50K job once.
> 
> Check out: "opportunity cost", you'll soon discover the problem.
> 
> I'm guessing you buy into the old advertising salesman's stand by of "If you got just one job from our advertising, you would have paid for it...."


Before I even finished writing my take on SM, I had an idea Mike that you'd feel more than happy to offer your profound, intellectual opinion.

Again,-what works for you might not work for others, and vise versa. 

I don't lurk on this site, waiting with swords drawn to have some sort of pi$$ing contest as you seem to regularly enjoy,...knocking down what people are doing,what they aren't doing...what they define marketing as,...yada yada yada....

All I am saying,....is if it works for you--GREAT!! We don't rely on internet leads as a SOLE source of leads for our business. I closely monitor what we spend vs. roi. You, Mike, being the suave businessman I'm sure you are, do the same thing.

If we're not getting a decent roi from ANY source (wether it be home shows,...fairs,....internet lead providers,..direct mailer campaigns,...canvassing,....)--WHATEVER source it might be, WHY would I continue to do it....? 

As you said yourself,....you did advertising in some local paper of sorts, and landed a 50k job..GOOD FOR YOU. I'm going to assume that after that,...without landing any more decent jobs,....You quit advertising in that particular paper, NO?

Same deal....When something works, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT and monitor it closely. If you're using just one source for your lead intake, then shame on you....

All in all Mike, You have more posts than most, and alot of times your posts make sense. 

And in response to your comment--

---I'm guessing you buy into the old advertising salesman's stand by of "If you got just one job from our advertising, you would have paid for it....---

No, I don't buy into that. But I'll "one up you" by stating the obvious-In the "Utopian Society" you live in, Mike is right and everyone else is stupid.":no:


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## RH-Electric (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm surprised that Service Magic has not been declared illegal. Seriously, selling the same lame "leads" over and over again to dozens of contractors and not giving refunds for these fake leads is criminal.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

I have been a Servicemagic customer for about four years and am very satisfied. When I call or apply for a lead credit, it is approved 9 out of 10 times.

I refinish and repair stone and solid surface countertops, so I realize my experiences may be different than those of a full-service remodler.

SM is the best advertising value availiable.

Kowboy


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Service Magic and companies like it are a parasitic drain on working tradespeople that are trying to make a living. They contribute nothing to the economy except worthless faxes and emails. If people are going to have work done to their home, they are going to have work done to their home. Service Magic does not change that. 

Do some of these potential customers live in caves? Why don't they search the internet for contractors, look in the phone book, ask friends and family etc. 

How does Service Magic rate contractors? Has it ever, just one time, had a qualified person inspect a contractors work? With electrical work, for example, a customer is not qualified to determine if the electrican did a good job. All they know is that the lights come on.

Service Magic? Nonsense! Probably another group of MBA's wanting something for nothing.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

Kowboy said:


> I have been a Servicemagic customer for about four years and am very satisfied. When I call or apply for a lead credit, it is approved 9 out of 10 times.
> 
> I refinish and repair stone and solid surface countertops, so I realize my experiences may be different than those of a full-service remodler.
> 
> ...


Kowboy, what is your average repair bill for stone or solid surface? Are we talking a few hundred or over a thousand? 

What is your closing ratio for the SM leads? I'm guessing that it is near 50%. 

How far do you travel for your work if you live in Lake Orion. Are you able to stay busy by just concentrating your effort in the norther suburbs? 

I used to live on a lake up in Lapeer. It's been a few years since I've been there but I heard the economy is brutal.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

IMO anybody who thinks going to the internet to find a contractor is not good must not have very good SEO.
The internet is better then the Yellow Pages by far. IMO it is the most bang for the buck advertising that is available. 
SM is garbage. The BBB is garbage. Build your own reputation and find your own leads, because if you need others to do it for you then you are destined to fail


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## welterweight (Nov 10, 2009)

scam #1- service magic has 1 replacemennt window or multiple. muliple is 2 or more..thats ridiculous and they know it. multiple should be 5 or more, they could easily change that.
scam #2- they can easily revamp their website in order to eliminate or minimize "tire kickers" who are'nt serious about getting an estimate,they only want the cost. how many times have you called a lead an they don't answer the phone,return calls,or reuturn e-mails?
#3 how many contrators really get each lead? is it 4,5,6? should be bo more than 3.
#4 whi is wood siding associated with fiber cement? i don't want to be bothered with wood siding but since i do fiber cement i have to accept wood siding leads which i don't do and of course i have to pay for.. they could easily change that and they know it.


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## JCL in LA CALIF (Apr 29, 2010)

*Five Star How are you doing?*

Five Star How is business?


Five Star said:


> Your right this is a professional forum, so why dont you try our sister DIY FORUM so you can hook up with all the SM customers!!
> 
> If times are so hard for you why dont you buy somemore leads if $50 brings you $10k jobs..i cant see why you shut the service off! or having hard times??
> 
> Im in buisness 20 yrs and 80% of my jobs are word of mouth and repeat customers :thumbsup:, the other is from advertisements which really are mostly tire kickers shopping prices!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I too am a SM customer. I do not look at it as a gold mine. It is just a tool, and with any tool you have to know how to use it correctly.

I heard a few say that a few years ago SM leads were great and easy to land. Duh! All leads were easier to land. People had money, the market was good and there was no end in site. I love it when contractors think that they can conduct business like they did 3 years ago, just means that they will be out of business soon and I can gobble up their clients. 

***News Flash*** You have to change with the market place. The internet is your first touch now, not the phone book. Even those "word of mouth" leads have looked you up on the net. You better be doing the same. You need to search your name everyday and make sure that there is no negative press about you. You need an up to date website. One that gives good clear information on your services. You need plenty of pictures of your work and repeat on every page in multiple places how they can contact you. You need to register with Google and all of the other major search engines. You need to make sure your Google map entry is up to date. The information that you can put on Google maps is better than most listing agencies.

I also think that those who don't like SM and it's practices probably have themselves mostly to blame for a bad ROI. I can land just about any hot SM lead, 50% of warm leads and 10-15% of tire kickers. It's all about having a plan for each category and sticking to it.

SM tips:

#1 - Have them text you the lead and call immediately to setup an appt (The first to call is 80+% more likely to land the lead)
#2 - Schedule the appt within 48 hours of the call (Do not allow another contractor to get their foot in the door before you. You want the customer comparing all other contractors to you.)
#3 - Return a quote within 48 hours of your appt.
#4 - Followup immediately to ensure they received the quote
#5 - Followup within 48 hours of the first call

It is also a valid reason for refund if you are not signed up for a service and it gets thrown into the "Hire a Handyman" category. I have never had a tough time getting those reversed. I just had one that a guy wanted me to remove a heavy tube TV and install a flat screen. It got thrown in as hire a handyman. Since the another contractor completed the task under Hire a Handyman, they said they could not reverse the charge. I called and spoke to a CS rep and had it reversed in minutes. He agreed and said that it was not in the correct category. The other card that you can pull is your insurance. Everyone has a category that they under and if the work is not in the category SM will refund you the lead.

* Never submit a lead credit online, always call it in.

That is all...

Rob


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

jimAKAblue said:


> Kowboy, what is your average repair bill for stone or solid surface? Are we talking a few hundred or over a thousand?
> 
> What is your closing ratio for the SM leads? I'm guessing that it is near 50%.
> 
> ...


Jim:

To answer your questions:

A few hundred.

You're a good guesser, maybe a little less.

I travel about an hour or so. That will take me to Ann Arbor.

Brutal. Yep.

Kowboy


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