# Old, massive and 10 minutes from home



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I got a chance to go check out a really rare, really old, really massive machine last night.

I am trying to get a hard date on when it was made, I am thinking right around 1900.

It is an American Wood Working Machinery Universal Saw bench.

Originally a line shaft driven machine, this saw can hold 2 16" blades.

The table tilts, the left side of the table slides and it weighs 2300 pounds without the motor.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Few more:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Well, now we know what you are gonna die from.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:laughing: Cool stuff, but you know Brian's gonna get a woody and die from a heart attack now, right?


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## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

The technical name for that tool is "widow maker"...


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

J F said:


> :laughing: Cool stuff, but you know Brian's gonna get a woody and die from a heart attack now, right?


Since when is "woody " allowed? Where's a mod when you need them? I have no little smilies to use on the Android app.


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

ChrWright said:


> The technical name for that tool is "widow maker"...


That brought back some memories...I haven't heard that term used on a jobsite in years. :thumbup:


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

CookeCarpentry said:


> That brought back some memories...I haven't heard that term used on a jobsite in years. :thumbup:


Haven't heard since Toy Story came out


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> Haven't heard since Toy Story came out


When was that? :blink: :laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I ripped some lumber with it when I went to look at it.

Now if Leo would just send me all that back child support, I could go pick it up.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Are you saying you are the mother of my children?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Are you saying you are the mother of my children?


I am saying I got the DNA tests back and you owe me, well the old lady, about 22k.:whistling:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

:blink:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I am saying I got the DNA tests back and you owe me, well the old lady, about 22k.:whistling:laughing:


Tough cookies.:jester:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Don't make me drive to your shop.:whistling:laughing:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

So Darcy, are the kids real short with very full heads of hair? (and wings):w00t:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Come on down, bring the DNA test.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Come on down, bring the DNA test.


Can you send me a deposit so I can afford the gas?:laughing:


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

Man, look what Brian has created! First the green kool aid. Now a money pit hobby unlike any other :laughing:

I do have that same bug, I admit. There are some machines out there that would just fit right into my shop nice and tidy. I have a hard time with the refurbishing part though. Unforseen issues I think would bankrupt me. 

Maybe in my later years or if I stumble upon something for free or close to.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

KentWhitten said:


> Man, look what Brian has created! First the green kool aid. Now a money pit hobby unlike any other :laughing:
> 
> I do have that same bug, I admit. There are some machines out there that would just fit right into my shop nice and tidy. I have a hard time with the refurbishing part though. Unforseen issues I think would bankrupt me.
> 
> Maybe in my later years or if I stumble upon something for free or close to.


It was a nice running, cutting and moving saw, for being at least 100 years old. 

My old oliver jointer was plug and play (for 3 phase) for about what a ct-26 costs. If you want to know some #'s pm me.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> he was a carpenter after all.


mmmmm....no


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

KentWhitten said:


> mmmmm....no


Leo thought he was a genie.:laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I got my rigging arrangements taken care of today.

I am pulling a Brian, my lumberyard said they would pick it up and drop it off for me.

Oh, for free of course.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I paid them D, it was &175.00 , on the other side of that coin......



you officially suck!!!!!:laughing: 



Way to go!!!!!:thumbup: makes the move so much easier....:thumbsup: 

B,


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## moorewarner (May 29, 2009)

KentWhitten said:


> mmmmm....no


No? ...I don't understand...Jesus no es carpenter?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I paid them D, it was &175.00 , on the other side of that coin......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine must like me better then yours.:whistling:laughing:

They better or, I am not ordering a 30k barn package.:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Well,
Since you have Clause giving you free bee's..... here's something else he want's to give you.......







KMA



B,:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So when is the big day Darce...







.... If you can, take some snappers...

B,:thumbsup:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Some time in the next couple weeks.

There is a band saw that has parts strewn all over and all 1400 pounds of Herbert needs moved out of the way, oh the PM66 is also going to need to be unhooked and moved to a corner.:whistling:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

"NO!" ,,,," Not the corner!!!!!!!" "Oh No!!!!"  "What is that green machine your putting on me!- :laughing: 

Oh, and by the way,,, "parts all over",,, shop in disarray.... ug,,,, I know the feeling Darce.... I haven't touched the American project since I last posted there...Kinda bummed about it but I'll just have to wait for things to calm down...... 


I know the feeling .....

B,:thumbsup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Darcy & Brian, Do you guys use this equipment or just collect it & look at it?:whistling


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

griz said:


> Darcy & Brian, Do you guys use this equipment or just collect it & look at it?:whistling


I used everyone today expect for the BS and Herbert.

I got to have one or two in reserve to take the place of the current line up.

If i was a woman these would probably be vintage hand bags or shoes.:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Grizz,

Are you kidding.......:blink: 

B,


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Grizz,
> 
> Are you kidding.......:blink: B,



:whistling:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

..........











B.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I should be bringing this home next week.

I am behind on delivering a few things and that means I have not got everything back together and moved in the shop yet. 

Plus, this freaking weather sucks. I worked at night 2 nights this week and that was not much cooler.

Man I have got to finish my ceiling and insulate. Going to need some AC next year.


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

That is a beast of a saw. What size rip capacity does a saw like that have?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I think it can do 6 1/2" depth if you run an 16" blade on it.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

This week it is finally coming home.
I have to finish up my band saw and figure out where to move Herbert to.
Maybe the corner......

Now I have to sell the PM66. I have a bottom dollar but no one even wants to negotiate.

And the damn Oliver needs to go


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

moorewarner said:


> No? ...I don't understand...Jesus no es carpenter?


Jesus was probably a tekton. Which refers to a man skilled in trades. Probably worked with wood, stone, etc. A tekton could refer also to an engineer or an architect. A lot of information on the web regarding this. Many of his parables were in regards to building a house. He, like his father Joseph may have been closer to a builder or general contractor.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Every time I look at that Herbert Baker....All I think about is that sliding table... I have been using the Wadkin Burgess at the shop and ......D, what an awesome feature to have....:thumbup: 

The cross cuts are dead on,,, and it makes sizing your wood so easy and effortless...  The Wadkins is an interesting saw....there is a 3" carbide scribe blade just before the 12" main blade, but moving counter clockwise. When you push your material through, it feels like your cutting butter...:laughing: I kid you not!:thumbup::clap:but the OLIVER 260 still rules....:laughing: I am biased... I know... 

So have you found something vintage as far as the motor.....


B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Every time I look at that Herbert Baker....All I think about is that sliding table....:thumbsup: I have been using the Wadkin Burgess at the shop and ......D, what an awesome feature to have....:thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> The cross cuts are dead on,,, and it makes sizing your wood so easy and effortless... The Wadkins is an interesting saw....there is a 3" carbide scribe blade just before the 12" main blade, but moving counter clockwise. When you push your material through, it feels like your cutting butter...:laughing: I kid you not!:thumbup::clap:
> 
> ...


Well, this thread is about the American and it has a vintage GE 5hp 3phase motor. :whistling:laughing:

As far as Herbert, I need to make some sort of counter shaft and probably go back to a flat belt. I see no way to make the v belts track when they have to ride on the back side of the belts.

I found some lineshafting that I can have if I take it down. Bunch of hangers and pulleys the will be helpful if making Herbert operate right.

I will have a guide to go off of once I bring the American home this week.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Yes you can,
And it's a relatively simple solution. Get your self a hub with a 4 groove channel wide belt design for the tension hub , I think type B :blink: not sure about that , but have it machined flat in the channels and drop the next size down on the belt type A,,,, I could do that on my 20C , any lathe with a carriage ,tool post for the point bit will sufice.......:thumbsup: 


On a side note: 
There is also the option of a wide serpentine belt... I believe they are commonly found on blowers, the mass air compression device that is usually jutting out of the hood of something like a 454 big block, throwing around a 1000 hp to the rear end,,,,,:whistling I think your motor won't tare the belt to shreads.......:thumbsup::laughing: 

I have seen it in action in place of the leather belts D,,, and it is awesome.....:thumbup: 


B,


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Stop naming your tools Warner, your freaking everybody out.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Lee,
Do you want to know the name of my Oliver......:whistling , it's a rather sexy ..:laughing::blink: Kinda funny when you think about it, what if there was a company actually called "*****" ......"I love my new ***** saw".....:blink::laughing: 


B,


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Stop it, all you wackos....must be all the lead paint on those old tools....


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I have seen people run a serpentine belt, in lieu of a leather flat belt.

I have not given the American a name yet.

Herbert is Herbert's real name though.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I can't wait, I have been making room for the old girl in the shop.

Going to have to park her next to the PM66 for now which will let me share it's DC and the 3 phase feed I have running to it.

I need to give the American a more appropriate paint color though.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Yer gonna crack your slab with all that weight.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Yer gonna crack your slab with all that weight.


I had my old lady jump around on the spot I am going to put it, concrete held up fine for her so, should be ok for the American.:laughing:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Darce,
Is your's a#20 USB :blink:, this was just listed ... http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=99380 



B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Darce,
> Is your's a#20 USB :blink:, this was just listed ... http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=99380
> 
> 
> ...


No, it pre-dates that saw. 

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=1493

It also has the lowest shop # for that style saw. 5 digit shop number. 

Shop # 17***


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Any chance of you snapping some video of this.....http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=95047:laughing: the 500 board foot project, well , not all 500 pieces :laughing: just 1:thumbup:



B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It's home!!!!


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

And now for the abuse


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Off topic, sorry D but did you send me some email........ if not someone is using your name......  I opened it up with the CT Ipad and it was some pharmaceutical products.....


B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Off topic, sorry D but did you send me some email........ if not someone is using your name......  I opened it up with the CT Ipad and it was some pharmaceutical products.....
> 
> 
> B,


not me dude. was it the aol one?


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

:blink:No... says Yahoo .... and it says Darce Warner...as the sender... Darcy Warner [[email protected]]:blink:

I am afraid to open it.....




B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I will look into it.

Picture time.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

More:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I happened to stumble across this, http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/2534378212.html and it's all there, including the original belt guard....

I don't like to list adds but I have no other way of getting this on here write now.....CT iPad,,,,,I love this thing...:laughing::thumbup:



B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I happened to stumble across this, http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/2534378212.html and it's all there, including the original belt guard....
> 
> I don't like to list adds but I have no other way of getting this on here write now.....CT iPad,,,,,I love this thing...:laughing::thumbup:
> 
> ...


That is a pretty complete saw. I like that the #20 has the blades separated from the other workings and that the DC is actually pretty decent. Oh, the price is not too bad either.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So,
Did you get the alignment issue on the arbors back up tp specs..:blink: I was looking on the spec tag of your motor, it's 6.95 @ 440v and ,it's hard to see, but 13.95 @ 220v......

Just curious....


B,


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

So are we going to meet again and hoist that bad boy up on your trailer? 

By the way you still owe me for the medical bills from that splinter I got from the last job.:whistling

Whoops, shoulda looked at some of the 7 pages of dialog on this thread...... nevermind.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Arbors are in and I am trying to figure out a way to temp. mount the motor to go for a test spin. If all goes well, I will be doing some serious re-arranging to find a permanent spot for the American and my PM66.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

After a few issues to work out, mostly finding the correct wool for the wicks, trimming the shims back and getting the bearings tuned, I finally got to put my new 16" rip blade on it and make a couple cuts. 

That 16" blade sure does move some air.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Holy cow, there are 59 guests looking at this right now.

dang.

68 now!!


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Holy cow, there are 59 guests looking at this right now.
> 
> dang.
> 
> 68 now!!


I couldn't care less about the machine/tool, but wondered what you were up to. Please continue.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So, did the felt help out with keeping the oil contained D? I was reading your thread over at the mother ship, isn't there a bushing to keep the arbor in place....sorta like a brass thrust sleeve bushing.....I don't quite understand the mechanics of how those arbors stay in position. 


Hope she is running smooth for you...:thumbsup:

I noticed a high watch count in the architecture section last year, around 324 if my memory serves me......I don't know what happened , or what thread they watched, but the area was flooded .....spammers probably.......:laughing:


B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> So, did the felt help out with keeping the oil contained D? I was reading your thread over at the mother ship, isn't there a bushing to keep the arbor in place....sorta like a brass thrust sleeve bushing.....I don't quite understand the mechanics of how those arbors stay in position.
> 
> 
> Hope she is running smooth for you...:thumbsup:
> ...


The felt helped control the amount of oil that wicked on the shafts.

Trimming the shims back kept it from running out the caps. 

There is nothing that keeps the arbor in place, other then the out board half of the shaft has V's milled into the shaft.

It sure did cut that old thick timber nice, like a hot knife through butter.

All that blade sticking up is a little intimidating though.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Nice to hear she's up and running D...:thumbsup: sometimes those can be a PITA...... was your oil Ok? I was reading back to the VM site on Babbit bearings, they called for a light machine oil , as long as it's working, that's all that matters.  


As far as the blade....you'll get used to it, just be safety conscious Stuby will varify that..:whistling..




B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> Nice to hear she's up and running D...:thumbsup: sometimes those can be a PITA...... was your oil Ok? I was reading back to the VM site on Babbit bearings, they called for a light machine oil , as long as it's working, that's all that matters.
> 
> 
> As far as the blade....you'll get used to it, just be safety conscious Stuby will varify that..:whistling..
> ...



I talked with Dan about the oil and he said he runs a Non-Detergent sae 30w in his stuff. Donovan said the same thing.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

All I know is, I was wearing mine when I first filled the wells....oh boy was that fun......:clap: :laughing:

Nice BS you showed me D:thumbup: 


B,


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> All I know is, I was wearing mine when I first filled the wells....oh boy was that fun......:clap: :laughing:
> 
> Nice BS you showed me D:thumbup:
> 
> ...


I don't get any spray now. The first time it looked like I struck oil.:laughing: Once it gets covered in saw dust you will never notice the oil.:laughing:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Until you try to put a finish on whatever it is you are milling :whistling


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Leo G said:


> Until you try to put a finish on whatever it is you are milling :whistling


It is mineral oil Leo.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Still screw things up.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

There is this little thing called the table that is kind of in between the arbors and the lumber.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That's a good thing. But you don't finish anyway. Why should you care :laughing:


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Stuff was lubricated like that for decades so, I am sure someone figured something out.


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