# Are we to that point with employees



## country_huck (Dec 2, 2009)

Are we to the point in the labor pool where we have to pay a few dollars more than there skill level to have a guy that shows up on time and is relatively clean cut?


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

country_huck said:


> Are we to the point in the labor pool where we have to pay a few dollars more than there skill level to have a guy that shows up on time and is relatively clean cut?




I'm afraid so..... among other things. It's just sad. just sad....


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## ElectricianC-10 (May 28, 2016)

Good workers are hard to find. that is why the mediocre worker get paid more than he actually worth I feel like i need to say thank you for being here on time. Very sad!


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

We have been at that point for a few years. I only do it when I am totally swamped, and so far they have either been let go, or they quit about the time we started catching up.


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

Warren said:


> We have been at that point for a few years. I only do it when I am totally swamped, and so far they have either been let go, or they quit about the time we started catching up.


done that before...


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## jstanton (Mar 25, 2012)

Very much so, just hired #5 and the good guys want some serious coin. Best bet is to poach guys who care but have ****ty bosses who don't pay. The amount of work out there ANYBODY can start a company and be booked out 6 months.

When times get tough again the overpaid are the first to go. Other than that not much else you can do.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

gotta good horse, you feed him good.


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## BlueRidgeGreen (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm on a winning streak. :clap:

I'm 3 for 3 this year*.

I just bought a boatload of MegaMillions tickets.
I figure I'm living in a charmed moment and I'm going to milk it for all it's worth.

(*These results are no in way indicative of past or future performance.)


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

Unfortunately yes. I am at the point where I am contemplating just giving up. I am too old and too crippled to do it on my own. I need employees to do it. At what point do you just say to heck with it?


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## country_huck (Dec 2, 2009)

To preference the start of this coversation, 

I am on yet another employee this year, we are ending the trial period we had a greed upon and in my opinion he probably isn't quite worth our agreed salary. 

With the run of bad luck I have had with people and well ,the lack of skill in my local labor I'm trying to decide if I want to renegotiate his wages and risk loosing him, or pay the extra because he is reliable. 

The latter part of that really irks me to no end. Just for showing up on time should not be part of the pay equation but I guess it's the way it going these days.


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## country_huck (Dec 2, 2009)

dayexco said:


> gotta good horse, you feed him good.


I have no problem paying well for their skill, I do have a problem for paying for reliability that part should be a given at least in my opinion.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Supply and demand. Supply is down and demand is high, wages go up. Highest bidder


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Back in the day I had a guy ask me "Mike I show up everyday, on time and work hard, can I get a raise?" I said why the hell do I have to pay extra for that? That's the very minimum you are suppose to be doing! No days that is hard to find. Although I would like to say I've got good help.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

lucky, you could be this guy.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-dirt-dump-battery-20160602-story.html


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

The problem is a lot of people want caviar on a spam budget. 

When I worked corporate years back my boss once told me you don't justify your raise by saying I did everything I was hired to do.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

dayexco said:


> lucky, you could be this guy.
> 
> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-dirt-dump-battery-20160602-story.html


Released on 5000.00 bond.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

dayexco said:


> lucky, you could be this guy.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-dirt-dump-battery-20160602-story.html




Damn pork chop.....


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## AccurateCut (Mar 20, 2015)

when we run out of skilled labor it is gonna be an interesting place, and with some of the entitled little snot nose piss ants wanting more but producing less and no skill set what so ever are gonna sit in the dark with a broken light bulb that simply needs changing but they wont know what to do. Very interesting indeed....................


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## finakat (Jun 7, 2011)

It's funny what you can learn on this forum & how essential of an information outlet it really can be. I'm an employee, so I wasn't aware of this.

I do now "it's been hard to find good help", ever since the work flow picked back up after '08, but, didn't realize guys were being overpaid.

I thought wages in construction haven't gone up in 30 years. When folks start helpers off at $10-12/hr, I heard that's what a roofing laborer made in the late 1980s.

I'm from NJ/NYC so I've never had to take less than $15, but, yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How much are you paying these good guys that are only 'reliable'. Living wage no?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I charge a few bucks more to ensure my reliability so I can't expect anything less from my employees. 

My customers pay more because when I bring a ladder into the house, I'm not going to bump it into every single door frame that I walk through. I'm not going to sit on your sofa or watch your TV or laugh and comment on what you're watching.

My customers pay more because smoking, drinking, foul language ANYWHERE around the customer's house is prohibited even if they do it and/or offers anything to my employees. 

My customers pay more because my guys aren't going to obliviously knock things over as they walk through the house like a bull in a china shop. 

So as a result, guys with some degree of good manners is worth more to me.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

finakat said:


> How much are you paying these good guys that are only 'reliable'. Living wage no?


"Living wage" is always kind of BS thing. Because wages aren't based on how much the person needs to make their living, it's based on the value of the job being performed. Someone in financial products is going to be making far more than someone in food service. Neither of them may be able to "make a living" depending on their individual expenses.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

EricBrancard said:


> "Living wage" is always kind of BS thing. Because wages aren't based on how much the person needs to make their living, it's based on the value of the job being performed. Someone in financial products is going to be making far more than someone in food service. Neither of them may be able to "make a living" depending on their individual expenses.



They should at least pay the basics of life:
Food, shelter, transportation, clothing.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> They should at least pay the basics of life:
> Food, shelter, transportation, clothing.


No they shouldn't. They should pay what the job is worth. Don't come to me and accept a pay then ***** about it not being enough to pay your bills. I'm not here to provide for anyone. It would be like me telling an employee he has to make enough money for me to pay my mortgage.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Californiadecks said:


> No they shouldn't. They should pay what the job is worth. Don't come to me and accept a pay then ***** about it not being enough to pay your bills. I'm not here to provide for anyone. It would be like me telling an employee he has to make enough money for me to pay my mortgage.



So if you own a business what is it worth to you to have a reliable knowledgeable employee?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> So if you own a business what is it worth to you to have a reliable knowledgeable employee?


I don't mind paying a premium for knowledge and reliability. Has nothing to do with their food bill. Huge difference!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

If I hired you for x about of money we both agreed to, for x amount of performance and you delivered flawlessly but I couldn't pay for my basic needs would it be fair to fire you for it?


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't mind paying a premium for knowledge and reliability. Has nothing to do with their food bill. Huge difference!




That's why they walk.
They have the knowledge and skills somebody wants. Goes to the highest bidder.
They could care less about you making your mortgage payment.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> That's why they walk.
> They have the knowledge and skills somebody wants. Goes to the highest bidder.
> They could care less about you making your mortgage payment.


exactly that would mean the free market is the determining factor not someone's cost of living. Thanks for making my point.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Looks like I made your point and you made my point.

That is why we are having all the labor strikes, worker sickouts, minimum wage demands, etc.
They are using the free market and current economic conditions to advance their demands.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> Looks like I made your point and you made my point.
> 
> That is why we are having all the labor strikes, worker sickouts, minimum wage demands, etc.
> They are using the free market and current economic conditions to advance their demands.


No they are using the government to do it. Thanks again. That's the difference.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TimNJ said:


> They should at least pay the basics of life:
> Food, shelter, transportation, clothing.





Californiadecks said:


> If I hired you for x about of money we both agreed to, for x amount of performance and you delivered flawlessly but I couldn't pay for my basic needs would it be fair to fire you for it?


Do I get an answer to my question?


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Back when the minimum wage thread was going, one of my thoughts when others say "They do not deserve a living wage", I started thinking even a slave got food and a roof over their heads, but some feel an employee today doesn't deserve that. *shrugs* 

A free market means life depending medications can cost half your salary. Are you okay with that? Oh and gas costs $10.00 a gallon. Government regulation is a requirement...

Seems a good employee will require a decent wage, and even a so so employee can make demands. Employers are not driving the market or they would only being paying $5 an hour. And we wonder why people are on welfare? Cause it pays more!


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> Back when the minimum wage thread was going, one of my thoughts when others say "They do not deserve a living wage", I started thinking even a slave got food and a roof over their heads, but some feel an employee today doesn't deserve that. *shrugs*
> 
> A free market means life depending medications can cost half your salary. Are you okay with that? Oh and gas costs $10.00 a gallon. Government regulation is a requirement...
> 
> Seems a good employee will require a decent wage, and even a so so employee can make demands. Employers are not driving the market or they would only being paying $5 an hour. And we wonder why people are on welfare? Cause it pays more!


So you agree that the free market is what determines a wage not someone's bills? If you don't have the skills to earn the minimum amount to pay for the basics in life it's not a business owners job to make sure you are subsidized for that lack of skill. Even if you starve or die of cancer. 

Again if I hire you for x amount of money and you deliver flawlessly, and I as a business owner can't make ends meet, should I be able to look to government to make you work more for less?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Making a living wage is BS, some guys can't budget their lifestyles and some can. I know guys who could make 2k a week and be broke, but no matter what they make they will have smokes and big fountain drink. 

No one around here working construction who shouldn't be able to afford the necessities, even as a laborer, unless they make bad life choices. This isn't a high income area either except for the second home crowd. 

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## Anderson (Sep 7, 2009)

I am a business owner and struggle to find good employees. I pay a fair rate for what I consider a basic employee. 
Then on top of that if they work well they get a weekly bonus that runs about $2/hr.
If there late, if they don't clean up the site, the trucks etc then the bonus goes away for that week, and we start again the next week. 
I really do want my guys to be happy and to have a good quality of life, there is no pay cap. 
My newest hire is late at least 3 days a week, he has still been payed bonus because he has performed well, and I understand he is driving an hour to work on a morning.
I have however warned him just yesterday that the bonus will be stopping if he cant figure out his commute


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

TimNJ said:


> They should at least pay the basics of life:
> Food, shelter, transportation, clothing.


Well, no, it doesn't work like that. Certain jobs are worth far below what it takes to make a living. These jobs are generally filled by a) kids in school who are looking to make some extra money, b) people who's spouse makes money already and are looking to augment income, c) retired people looking to make some extra money because they are on fixed income, d) people who are looking for a second job to make some extra money. Just because a job exists, doesn't mean it should pay enough to support an individual or a family.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Peter_C said:


> Back when the minimum wage thread was going, one of my thoughts when others say "They do not deserve a living wage", I started thinking even a slave got food and a roof over their heads, but some feel an employee today doesn't deserve that. *shrugs*


Yes and in exchange they were worked against their will and were the property of other human beings. They got food and shelter in exchange for being stripped of all other basic rights. I think I'd rather be a free man and figure out how to put food on the table and a roof over my head than ever be another man's property.



> A free market means life depending medications can cost half your salary. Are you okay with that? Oh and gas costs $10.00 a gallon. Government regulation is a requirement...


If oil and pharm companies weren't making money, you would see dry pumps and no medication at all. 



> Seems a good employee will require a decent wage, and even a so so employee can make demands. Employers are not driving the market or they would only being paying $5 an hour. And we wonder why people are on welfare? Cause it pays more!


A good employee does require a decent wage. But a good employee at a hotdog stand isn't worth what a good employee for a construction crew is and a good construction crew worker isn't worth what an analyst at Goldman Sachs is. That's just the way it is. If you want a "living wage" you better figure out how to find the jobs that pay it and be qualified to get one, not think you should stay at the minimum wage job you're at and expect the wages to come to you.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Three thoughts:

1. OP's question. Yes, you're always going to pay more for an employee that shows up on time and is reliable. It's always been that way. Crappy employee's will usually accept less because they know they're crappy. 

2. I think some form of minimum wage is a necessity. Before it, many people were truly exploited to the point where they had drastically reduced health and lifespans. That isn't cool.

3. What the minimum wage should be is really subjective depending primarily on where you live, that's where the "living wage" concept comes in. I don't think you need cable or two cars to live. That said, I think anything below $10 an hour, in my area, reflects a companies lack of priorities and I won't be giving it my business.


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## jstanton (Mar 25, 2012)

Pretty much anyone who can use power tools gets $15 an hour around here to start. A lead guy with a great skill set and complete jobs on their own is $32 - $35 an hour. I have guys looking for $45 an hour and are more framers who have done case & base for finish. Then they want to work with someone to learn more finish for that money!

Sad part is guys getting $30 aren't working for a reason. I'm all for paying someone what there worth, but it's ridiculous around here right now. I just need guys to show up and do a great job, speed comes second. I have ads up constantly and it's the same thing over and over.

As far as living wage, job was offered at $x take it or leave it. It's not showing up that counts, what did you get done at quitting time? Are you willing to stay late to finish? I love the "I don't get paid to do that" line. Show your skills then get paid, not the other way around.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> . It would be like me telling an employee he has to make enough money for me to pay my mortgage.


That's basically what you do when you have an employee though. If they don't make enough for you then you fire them or tell them to step it up.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

EthanB said:


> Three thoughts:
> 
> 1. OP's question. Yes, you're always going to pay more for an employee that shows up on time and is reliable. It's always been that way. Crappy employee's will usually accept less because they know they're crappy.
> 
> ...


Crappy employees want more because they dont inderstand how much they suck.

Good employees make do with less. Thats how they make sure you make enough to cover your mortgage.

Disagree? Walmart.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aptpupil said:


> That's basically what you do when you have an employee though. If they don't make enough for you then you fire them or tell them to step it up.


But my mortgage isn't the qualifier. Nor should an employees living expenses be. So if an employees rent goes up I owe them a raise? 

If my employees are performing flawlessly and I can't make ends meet the problem is my business skills not my employees.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> Well, no, it doesn't work like that. Certain jobs are worth far below what it takes to make a living. These jobs are generally filled by a) kids in school who are looking to make some extra money, b) people who's spouse makes money already and are looking to augment income, c) retired people looking to make some extra money because they are on fixed income, d) people who are looking for a second job to make some extra money. Just because a job exists, doesn't mean it should pay enough to support an individual or a family.




They should stop marketing those jobs as "career opportunities" then 


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aaron_a said:


> They should stop marketing those jobs as "career opportunities" then
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My first job in construction was 5.50 an hour I had to have two roommates and barely survived. But it was the opportunity I needed. Keyword "opportunity" I have a career today because of the opportunity that job gave me. It doesn't advertise you're guaranteed a career. Like all careers you start out at the bottom.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> My first job in construction was 5.50 an hour I had to have two roommates and barely survived. But it was the opportunity I needed. Keyword "opportunity" I have a career today because of the opportunity that job gave me. It doesn't advertise you're guaranteed a career. Like all careers you start out at the bottom.




Yeah, but where do you go after being a night manager at a Burger King? Day manager?


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> My first job in construction was 5.50 an hour


What year was that? In Cali?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aaron_a said:


> Yeah, but where do you go after being a night manager at a Burger King? Day manager?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


School


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aaron_a said:


> Yeah, but where do you go after being a night manager at a Burger King? Day manager?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You sit in the corner and cry like a little ***** that you're not being paid enough.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> You sit in the corner and cry like a little ***** that you're not being paid enough.




I get paid plenty 


But I don't work nights 

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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I was just talking about this topic with my floor guy. He hired a helper for decent $$, who decided on day #2 to put a small piece of furniture on top of a nice dining room table, then push it across. Result: two big scratches. He got fired without pay (told to go F himself for stupidity when he wanted his wage), and then the guy had a lawyer call to get his money. Flooring guy explained to lawyer, told him to pound sand, too, and that the laborer owed HIM the difference for the table repair ($300 labor, $600 for table repair, etc. means $300 due the job creator.) Never heard from them again.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aaron_a said:


> I get paid plenty
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why is that? Did someone just give a business to you one day? Better yet I'll bet you were subsided at first for your lack of skills until you got on your feet. Unbelievable the welfare expectations in this country!


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Why is that? Did someone just give a business to you one day? Better yet I'll bet you were subsided at first for your lack of skills until you got on your feet. Unbelievable the welfare expectations in this country!




I'm actually fine with jobs that can grow into something having a low starting pay. I just don't think Walmart and McDonald's should be marketing their garbage pay kid jobs as careers and we have to foot the bill for what they don't pay their employees.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aaron_a said:


> I'm actually fine with jobs that can grow into something having a low starting pay. I just don't think Walmart and McDonald's should be marketing their garbage pay kid jobs as careers and we have to foot the bill for what they don't pay their employees.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are 1000s of people who have careers at those businesses. To say there isn't a career opportunity is absolutely not true.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

It's a great place to work on a fat butt.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aaron_a said:


> I'm actually fine with jobs that can grow into something having a low starting pay. I just don't think Walmart and McDonald's should be marketing their garbage pay kid jobs as careers and we have to foot the bill for what they don't pay their employees.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The reason the taxpayer foots the bill for unskilled people isn't because they aren't being subsidized by a business. It's because they are unskilled. Period!


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> My first job in construction was 5.50 an hour I had to have two roommates and barely survived.


I remember those days, but it was only 6 years ago for me. The possibility of homelessness is a good motivator to hustle. :laughing: Paid off though.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Youngin' said:


> I remember those days, but it was only 6 years ago for me. The possibility of homelessness is a good motivator to hustle. :laughing: Paid off though.


It's amazing what a person will do for themselves if their life depends on it. 

I can remember working as a busboy for 2.90 an hour, living on my own with roommates. Sometimes the only meal I got was at the restaurant. When one of the waitresses husband hired me for 5.50 as a laborer I was very grateful. I still struggled, but I knew I was headed up. Had that restaurant paid me a living wage I would've never known my full potential and moved up in life. That busboy job did exactly what it was suppose to do. It taught me to suit up, show up and work hard. That's what entry level means.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> I can remember working as a busboy for 2.90 an hour


Good thing the minimum wage is effectively the same today, as it was back then :thumbsup:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> Good thing the minimum wage is effectively the same today, as it was back then :thumbsup:


Had it paid me any more I would've been robbed of my potential. I wasn't worth anymore as a busboy. Bleeding hearts don't ever think of the unintended consequences their so called good deeds have on the very people they think they're helping. I think everyone's life should depend on themselves. However I have a hunch It's more about making the evil businesses pay than its about helping people. Just a hunch though.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

aaron_a said:


> Yeah, but where do you go after being a night manager at a Burger King? Day manager?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Store or district manager of Walmart pays pretty well. Never met a stock boy at HD become a store manager? I have. Nothing wrong with starting at the bottom.

Im sure a burger king DM makes a decent living.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> Had it paid me any more I would've been robbed of my potential. I wasn't worth anymore as a busboy. Bleeding hearts don't ever think of the unintended consequences their so called good deeds have on the very people they think they're helping.


So what if the business thought you were worth less and had only paid you $1.50 an hour? 

(Of course minimum wage dictated by the state made sure you got more.)


Californiadecks said:


> I think everyone's life should depend on themselves.


Hitler would agree that if you can't take care of yourself you should be put to death too. :blink:

Have you ever known anyone that can not function as a normal person in society? Not everyone can help themselves, and basing lives on survival of the fittest has already wiped entire species off the earth. That is not the proper way of a civilized nation, for which we are supposed to be.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> So what if the business thought you were worth less and had only paid you $1.50 an hour?
> 
> (Of course minimum wage dictated by the state made sure you got more.)
> 
> ...


You are stretching to make me as evil as Hitler because I think perfectly working capable people should take care of thier basic needs? Laughable and typical! 

HTF did this country survive the first 150 years without the government nipple. We are now making sure we buy their food so they can afford to smoke and have HBO? In California and 38 other states, welfare pays more than the starting wage for a secretary. California welfare benefits can still exceed 96% of the state's median salary. 

I would've taken what the market had to offer. It's as simple as that. I started working in high school at the age of 15. There is a certain wage they would've had to pay in order to keep a staffed business. I'm not for letting handicapped or the elderly die because they can't help themselves.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

By the way 2.90 an hour wasn't dictated by the state of California it was a federal minimum wage. 



Peter_C said:


> Hitler would agree that if you can't take care of yourself you should be put to death *too.* :blink:


You had to say I wanted people put to death or killed like Hitler would do, if they couldn't take care of themselves, in order to make your case? Really? I never said that.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> You are stretching to make me as evil as Hitler because I think perfectly working capable people should take care of their basic needs? Laughable and typical!


You never stated "working capable people", for which I fully agree with. Heck half the time I think someone wanting an unemployment check should only get one if they show up and break some useless rock or count pebbles. Whatever, just earn it from the state. You want welfare, then take a drug test. Of course the children would suffer, which we don't want. 



Californiadecks said:


> In California and 38 other states, welfare pays more than the starting wage for a secretary. California welfare benefits can still exceed 96% of the state's median salary.


I know it is a sad state...so do you cut welfare, or raise the minimum wage? Either way someone has to pay for it. Do you want to pay for it in your taxes or your sandwich? I will gladly pay more for my sandwich, IF it keeps people working. 



Californiadecks said:


> I would've taken what the market had to offer. It's as simple as that. I started working in high school at the age of 15.


I was forced into slave farm labor at 13 with no pay, but was given food and shelter, along with my brothers old clothes, but technically had chores prior to that. 



Californiadecks said:


> I'm not for letting handicapped or the elderly die because they can't help themselves.


You have eluded to survival of the fittest in the past, and your wording left it open to interpretation, so I had a little fun with you :laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> You never stated "working capable people", for which I fully agree with. Heck half the time I think someone wanting an unemployment check should only get one if they show up and break some useless rock or count pebbles. Whatever, just earn it from the state. You want welfare, then take a drug test. Of course the children would suffer, which we don't want.
> 
> 
> I know it is a sad state...so do you cut welfare, or raise the minimum wage? Either way someone has to pay for it. Do you want to pay for it in your taxes or your sandwich? I will gladly pay more for my sandwich, IF it keeps people working.
> ...


Comparing me to Hitler and wanting people murdered is not cool. And leave people to either die or go find a job, I can gaurantee you they won't die. It's people like you that enable them with your feel good policies that actually hurt their ability to ever help themselves. You are the problem not them. They are the natural outcome of one big giant nipple. 

Welfare should be preserved for the disabled and elderly. Anyone able to work should have to work for any benefits they receive. Like drive a garbage truck or check meters, DMV, whatever. Something to pay for their benefits. No one rides the free nipple unless they're disabled or too old.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I would be for anyone on the gov nipple having to pick up trash on the city streets. How much of that would it take before they found a real job? Let's make life harder on the nipple not easier.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Let's bring back food stamps, it should be embarrassing to pay for your food with stamps and everyone gets to know in line at the grocery store. No more cards that look like a debit card.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> You never stated "working capable people",


Because I didn't say working capable people it must mean I want crippled people to starve? Get real. 

I'll bet 95% of nipple suckers are capable of working.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> Heck half the time I think someone wanting an unemployment check should only get one if they show up and break some useless rock or count pebbles. Whatever, just earn it from the state.


California unemployment insurance isn't paid for from taxes. Nor is it paid by the employee. If the state is going to benefit from the insurance money they need to refund it back to the businesses.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Peter_C said:


> So what if the business thought you were worth less and had only paid you $1.50 an hour?


I can say no. If enough people won't work for a buck fifty guess what? They will need to raise the rate. See how easy that is? The same reason I can't get a carpenter to work for minimum wage. The employee nor the employer decides what the job is worth. It's purely supply and demand.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

country_huck said:


> Are we to the point in the labor pool where we have to pay a few dollars more than there skill level to have a guy that shows up on time and is relatively clean cut?


And most of them are covered head to toe in tattoos and look like they just got out of prison... great image for customers...


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## LI-Remodeler (Feb 3, 2015)

country_huck said:


> Are we to the point in the labor pool where we have to pay a few dollars more than there skill level to have a guy that shows up on time and is relatively clean cut?


 No we are not and we never will be at that point. 

You're either not looking in the right areas, not looking at all, not looking hard enough and/or not going through the vetting process for potential employees when you do find them. There are a lot of young Americans out there needing direction in life. You can easily find a recent HS graduate who is smart but bouncing around with not a clue about what to do in life. But if you provide an opportunity they will jump on it and be fully motivated to perform. 

You have to teach them by the numbers, have a system in place to train them. It's a team effort and all employees must take the new guy under their wing and guide them. . You must have leadership skills. Once they feel part of your team they will want to emulate those around them. 

I'll always start a new guy on the worst demo possible. Make him experience the worst part of this business. If he shows up on time and passes a few days of nasty demo he's a promising prospect and is worth taking him to the next level. Never give him a tool belt, ruler, pencil etc, that's for carpenter apprentices and you make him aware of that from day one. Knowing that will motivate him to work hard and want to reach that level. 

Don't give up, they are out there but they are not waiting on the corner like a bunch of illegal boarder jumpers


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

LI-Remodeler said:


> You have to teach them by the numbers, have a system in place to train them.
> 
> Never give him a tool belt, ruler, pencil etc, that's for carpenter apprentices and you make him aware of that from day one. Knowing that will motivate him to work hard and want to reach that level.


I think you hit on something here. 

This is how we do it with the sound crews for live bands. Most newbies want to start out behind the console turning knobs but you start out learning how to roll and unroll cables. Once you show that you can properly roll up cables without wrapping them around your forearm, then you get to haul equipment out of the truck. After that you "graduate" and evolve to different parts of the process until you find your place on the crew.

And I think that one thing we have gotten away from is explaining this concept in the interview process. Are employers saying, "Take this entry level job, do well at it, and we'll give you something better with more pay as you continue to prove yourself." or are we just giving them a work schedule and break times?

Everyone should know that you are supposed to be at work on time but this is a generation of home-schooled kids that need to be told to come on time. Everyone should know that you are supposed to work hard but even at that, some people just need to be told.

So to answer the OP's question, I'd have to say that you can pay people less but you'll just have to teach them life skills that they didn't get growing up. 

I can't begin to count the number of times I go to a fast food joint or a big box store where the cashier doesn't know that they are supposed to say "thank you". They just give you your change back with a blank stare or a look of expectation that they are looking for you to thank THEM. It's not because they are rude but it's because they haven't been taught.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

LI-Remodeler said:


> It's a team effort and all employees must take the new guy under their wing and guide them. . You must have leadership skills. Once they feel part of your team they will want to emulate those around them.


I'm always amazed at the dysfunction out there in businesses, yet they still make money. And as long as they are doing that, they are less likely to even recognize things not working. Usually for them to be successful and keep going they have to have a good whipping boy, a lead that does nothing but go from one crisis/error to another as their job.



> Never give him a tool belt, ruler, pencil etc, that's for carpenter apprentices and you make him aware of that from day one. Knowing that will motivate him to work hard and want to reach that level.


that's not cool man. Everyone is competent and capable and a star, they just need to do it from day one. One day a roofer, the next week an interior remodeler.

Respect for the trade starts with respect for the person. If they don't respect the person, how can they respect his trade?


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

tedanderson said:


> And I think that one thing we have gotten away from is explaining this concept in the interview process. Are employers saying, "Take this entry level job, do well at it, and we'll give you something better with more pay as you continue to prove yourself." or are we just giving them a work schedule and break times?


Once again, it depends upon the employer. Some just want bodies to burn through or just a slot to fill. I used to tell people that this may not be what you want to do now, but the more you can do, the more we'll give you and you'll grow. If you're not here, you'll still have those skills in your toolbox and will be able to use them someplace else, but you'll have more than when you came here.

As I alluded to above, I'd bet 1/3 of the worker problem is owner/operator caused for a variety of reasons.


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

m1911 said:


> And most of them are covered head to toe in tattoos and look like they just got out of prison... great image for customers...


Consider that a canary in the coal mine.

If a customer is willing to judge someone based on tattoos then they're not worth working for IMO.


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## country_huck (Dec 2, 2009)

[QUOTE


So to answer the OP's question, I'd have to say that you can pay people less but you'll just have to teach them life skills that they didn't get growing up[/QUOTE]

See that's kind of my complaint, we now have to pay extra salary to get a set of standards and morals that should be a given. 

Also I have done the try to train from the start. That's how I was taught and that system works. 
However most people can't get their heads around starting at the bottom and working up. Most 18-25 year olds have been spoon fed and never forced to get off the tit for so long they can't and won't fathom entry level. 

Now there is always the exception to the rule and like the rest of us I will continue to search for that elusive great employee or that one young kid looking to make his mark on the construction industry.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

BucketofSteam said:


> Consider that a canary in the coal mine.
> 
> If a customer is willing to judge someone based on tattoos then they're not worth working for IMO.


If you have a swastika on your cheek that warrants a little judginess.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

BucketofSteam said:


> Consider that a canary in the coal mine.
> 
> If a customer is willing to judge someone based on tattoos then they're not worth working for IMO.


In real life, image is important. You show up to someone's home with a crew of guys that look like they just did 15-20 in the pen and maybe they don't feel warm and fuzzy about them being around their home and kids.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

EricBrancard said:


> In real life, image is important.


would one want to meet his surgeon that looks/dresses/talks like snoop dog?


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

EricBrancard said:


> If all else is equal and it comes down to me or the guy with gauged earrings and neck tats for a job, don't be surprised when I get it.


ha ha funny funny, you may "look better" but what is a customer to do when my proposal, written out and detailed looks better than yours?

So the customer is faced with the clean cut guy who can't detail out a proposal. And the tat'd earing'd guy who can write out a top dollar proposal that wow's them?

just a thought, not accusing you of writing cruddy proposals


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Earrings are for girls, Elton John, and perhaps Long John Silver...

Yes I judge.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

fast fred said:


> ha ha funny funny, you may "look better" but what is a customer to do when my proposal, written out and detailed looks better than yours?
> 
> So the customer is faced with the clean cut guy who can't detail out a proposal. And the tat'd earing'd guy who can write out a top dollar proposal that wow's them?
> 
> just a thought, not accusing you of writing cruddy proposals


Highly improbable. Most guys I've seen covered in tattoos, couldn't spell their own name, much less write a coherent sentence...


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

m1911 said:


> Earrings are for girls, Elton John, and perhaps Long John Silver...
> 
> Yes I judge.


so I'm a sissy? Went skiing this morning, messed around at work, putz around the house and now I'm going to shred a couple miles on the mountain bike in a bit, see if you can keep up with me


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

m1911 said:


> Earrings are for girls, Elton John, and perhaps Long John Silver...
> 
> Yes I judge.


You're just proving why I prefer to be the biggest jerkass I can be at all times.

I don't like people who say one thing to your face and then talk about you behind your back.

If you're going to judge based on looks without learning about the real me then I don't want anything to do with you.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

fast fred said:


> ha ha funny funny, you may "look better" but what is a customer to do when my proposal, written out and detailed looks better than yours?
> 
> So the customer is faced with the clean cut guy who can't detail out a proposal. And the tat'd earing'd guy who can write out a top dollar proposal that wow's them?
> 
> just a thought, not accusing you of writing cruddy proposals


Refer back to the line "if all else is equal." Also, you'll have to take my word on being able to write a proposal.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

fast fred said:


> ha ha funny funny, you may "look better" but what is a customer to do when my proposal, written out and detailed looks better than yours?
> 
> So the customer is faced with the clean cut guy who can't detail out a proposal. And the tat'd earing'd guy who can write out a top dollar proposal that wow's them?
> 
> just a thought, not accusing you of writing cruddy proposals


They would be a judgement call. As it should be.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

BucketofSteam said:


> You're just proving why I prefer to be the biggest jerkass I can be at all times.
> 
> I don't like people who say one thing to your face and then talk about you behind your back.
> 
> If you're going to judge based on looks without learning about the real me then I don't want anything to do with you.


Cool. Nobody cares.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

fast fred said:


> ha ha funny funny, you may "look better" but what is a customer to do when my proposal, written out and detailed looks better than yours?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You're not naïve enough to think the customer chooses the contractor simply based on attention to detail and the ability to write a proposal are you?

Decisions are based on logic and emotion, in which first impressions play a huge part.

Like it or not, fair or not, that is just the way it is.

Some clients choose based solely on price. Foolish. 
Others based solely on appearance. 
Also foolish.
Yet others choose based on feelings. That is foolish as well.

Appearance, emotion, convenience, cost, cost versus value, and a myriad of other things go into making a decision. Homeowners don't always make the best decisions. Either do we.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

BucketofSteam said:


> You're just proving why I prefer to be the biggest jerkass I can be at all times.
> 
> I don't like people who say one thing to your face and then talk about you behind your back.
> 
> If you're going to judge based on looks without learning about the real me then I don't want anything to do with you.


You are not being truthful if you say you don't use a first impression to size someone up. Especially if you're hiring someone. You absolutely do, there's no avoiding it. It's as natural as breathing.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

BucketofSteam said:


> You're just proving why I prefer to be the biggest jerkass I can be at all times.
> 
> I don't like people who say one thing to your face and then talk about you behind your back.
> 
> If you're going to judge based on looks without learning about the real me then I don't want anything to do with you.


So it's agreed you re judgmental of others being judgmental - if not you would be totally unconcerned with others judging you.

It's certainly with your rights to do what you want to do appearance wise.

You think it looks good. Others think it looks like chit.

And for that reason, not everybody sports a plaid mustache - get it?


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> You area not being truthful if you say you don't use a first impression to size someone up. Especially if you're hiring someone. You absolutely do, there's no avoiding it. It's as natural as breathing.


Same reason I won't work for certain ethnicities of people... you can call it discrimination or whatever you wish, but I've been burned enough times to know better...
We all judge, and anyone that says otherwise is not beimg honest with himself...


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

m1911 said:


> Same reason I won't work for certain ethnicities of people... you can call it discrimination or whatever you wish, but I've been burned enough times to know better...
> We all judge, and anyone that says otherwise is not beimg honest with himself...


Let's just agree on the fact that we've all had bad experiences with everyone.

If it were up to me I'd never work with or for clean shaven zero tattooed or pierced white guys.

I learned that they're the ones you need to watch out for. As they will sell you out to make themselves look good whenever they feel like you're threatening their job.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

BucketofSteam said:


> Let's just agree on the fact that we've all had bad experiences with everyone.
> 
> If it were up to me I'd never work with or for clean shaven zero tattooed or pierced white guys.
> 
> I learned that they're the ones you need to watch out for. As they will sell you out to make themselves look good whenever they feel like you're threatening their job.


And I have had way more bad experiences with tattooed guys than clean cut white guys


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

BucketofSteam said:


> Let's just agree on the fact that we've all had bad experiences with everyone.
> 
> If it were up to me I'd never work with or for clean shaven zero tattooed or pierced white guys.
> 
> I learned that they're the ones you need to watch out for. As they will sell you out to make themselves look good whenever they feel like you're threatening their job.


And by getting tattooed and pierced you put yourself in that lowly position to get looked down upon


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

m1911 said:


> And by getting tattooed and pierced you put yourself in that lowly position to get looked down upon


Yep, it's silly to get tattood and expect people to not stare or judge you.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

BucketofSteam said:


> Let's just agree on the fact that we've all had bad experiences with everyone.
> 
> If it were up to me I'd never work with or for clean shaven zero tattooed or pierced white guys.
> 
> I learned that they're the ones you need to watch out for. As they will sell you out to make themselves look good whenever they feel like you're threatening their job.


Keep it up with your contrarian act and see how far it takes you.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> Yep, it's silly to get tattood and expect people to not stare or judge you.


That's the idea... the majority of the ones I've had the pleasure to meet, were immature attention whores... and they expect to be treated any differently?


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

EricBrancard said:


> Keep it up with your contrarian act and see how far it takes you.


Oh, he's going to places you and I could never imagine...



Tattoo parlors, biker bars, and skate parks...:laughing:


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Well this is fully derailed...

Anyone feel like going back to the OP and getting us back on point? It's a good topic.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

I think tattoos show how unique people are.

Surely, no one else has a tribal band, skulls, names, or flames, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

We'll see if my sales go down when I get my next tat. Only one I have now is hidden. Next one is on my forearm. 

Still trying to figure out the exact artwork, but something to do with death, and the phrase "memento mori".


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Mordekyle said:


> I think tattoos show how unique people are.
> 
> Surely, no one else has a tribal band, skulls, names, or flames, right?
> 
> ...




I don't have any of those.

That's like saying all framers have a fu Manchu mustache, a drinking problem and felony convictions. Sure, there may be some truth to it, but it doesn't mean they're all like that.


Roofers on the other hand...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

CITY DECKS INC said:


> I'm afraid so..... among other things. It's just sad. just sad....


Would you say to yours son - go do construction. Bloody sh entire life. Of course that with IT and other good options nobody do not want go in construction. However money will talk.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

m1911 said:


> *Same reason I won't work for certain ethnicities of people...* you can call it discrimination or whatever you wish, but I've been burned enough times to know better...
> We all judge, and anyone that says otherwise is not beimg honest with himself...


Same case here.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

I never understand idea of tattoos. If you want aesthetic go work out and buy nice clothes. If you need tattoos buy affliction shirt. I have a few.


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## dibs16 (Nov 30, 2010)

HAHAHA Affliction shirt. Damn i wanted to post a serious reply to this thread, well maybe next time.


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## estatehomes (Jun 9, 2016)

What do you mean "pay more than there skill level"? I'm afraid hiring construction employees is called supply and demand. No such thing as paying more than their skill level.

Ken
Estate Homes


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## dibs16 (Nov 30, 2010)

It's all about worth. Everyone's breakdown of worth is different. Skill level makes up for x%, reliability, work ethic, drive, leadership abilities, etc. 

Im 28, have worked with the company im with now for almost 3 1/2 years. I left for a few months last summer, and went back.

I get a good hourly rate, with a serious potential for OT. It's a large company, with a few sister companies I also work for on occasion, mostly in the tradeshow industry. They also have a decent medical and dental program, costs me much less than obamacare would. 2 weeks vacation and 1 week sick time. Company van anywhere im going 99% of the time. If not they reimburse miles. Works everywhere, so lots of drive and travel time. Per diem check gets to you the friday before you are going away if necessary. They don't blink an eye if your schedule gets changed, just keep the per diem.

I'm pretty much done working for the one man show. No thanks. Taking 60-70k out of 1 persons pocket is almost impossible. That's where I need to be, with opportunity for more. I know that if I stick with this company and move up to PM I can come damn close to 100k.

You wanna pay me 25 an hour with 40 hours a week and 50 weeks of work? 50k isn't enough to move forward in life, in this area anyway. You would have to show me some serious OT and opportunity to get me to leave my company now. I hate the work sometimes too, which sucks. I'm dying to build a house, or even a deck.

Don't get me wrong, I've worked my ass off to get here, changed oil, delivered pizzas, worked at lowes, took any side job i could for a while. Nowadays, I just go to work and come home. Not enough time and not worth the stress of the side jobs.

Oh yeah, I have 1 hidden tattoo. And a beard, sometimes trimmed. Most People my age have tattoos, and piercings, worry about yourself!! There's my 80 cents on the subject.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

tipitop said:


> I never understand idea of tattoos. If you want aesthetic go work out and buy nice clothes. If you need tattoos buy affliction shirt. I have a few.


I really need to know more about affliction shirts. Where can I buy them?


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

I'd be more inclined to not hire someone who wears affliction t shirts over someone who is tattooed. 


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

aaron_a said:


> I'd be more inclined to not hire someone who wears affliction t shirts over someone who is tattooed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Would it matter what the tattoo was?


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> Would it matter what the tattoo was?




Is it a tattoo of an affliction t shirt?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## heavy_d (Dec 4, 2012)

What's an affliction shirt?


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

glad this thread is still going

I gots me lots of skulls and tribal stuff all over my arms, one skull is right on the top of my hand

and guess what posers? Just signed these well over 65 very nice white bread all american mid-westerners up for a $5,500.00 vanity replacement project up. Thats one vanity, one mirror, and a light. Obviously your all doing something wrong. They loved that I was all tattooed and could talk intelligently. 

think I'll take the profit and get my fingers tattooed with die to live


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

fast fred said:


> glad this thread is still going
> 
> I gots me lots of skulls and tribal stuff all over my arms, one skull is right on the top of my hand
> 
> ...


Uh, you were the only one to stick around and bid? All the other contractors saw the sign over the door that said "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate" and left.:whistling


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

fast fred said:


> glad this thread is still going
> 
> I gots me lots of skulls and tribal stuff all over my arms, one skull is right on the top of my hand
> 
> ...


Maybe I should go get tatted up so I can sign a massive $5,500 project as well.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

aaron_a said:


> I'd be more inclined to not hire someone who wears affliction t shirts over someone who is tattooed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would be inclined to agree with you.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

EricBrancard said:


> I would be inclined to agree with you.




Is that just because you don't want to hire tipi?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

aaron_a said:


> Is that just because you don't want to hire tipi?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, but it makes perfect sense that he would wear them, right?


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## Agage1 (Jun 16, 2016)

I guys new to this forum stuff. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I'm more than willing to in vest in a guy who knows nothing but is dedicated and willing to learn. As his skill level increases I have no problem increasing pay accordingly. Friends think I'm nuts but guys i can count on and trust is almost priceless these days


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## Herminigilde (Apr 10, 2012)

I have to say, after four pages of comments I got tired of the politics (both sides) and skipped ahead to make a comment. 

Excuse me for interrupting. 

Apologies if someone else introduced this point.

For the past 30+ years, colleges have been recruiting high school kids by telling them they're only going to be worth anything if they get a degree. We (as a country) are teaching kids, from elementary school on, that there is no value in manual labor. The only way to get ahead is to get a degree.

Realistically, how do you expect to compensate for that type on indoctrination in a week or two on the job?

Kids don't want to work these days. Not in the physical sense. They want to sit on their butts on a computer and get paid to do it. Some of the women I met when I was in college (around 2007) wanted to get a husband not a degree. Seriously! I thought we were beyond that!

Then they pay to go to a gym and work out because they sit all day.

Most men between the ages of 20 and 45, that I know, don't even know how to change a door knob. Women know less.

When we walk down the street in our work boots and grubby jeans after work, young folks sneer at us and admire the guy in the tie.

It's going to get worse before it gets better. Until kids start wising up and realize that 70K in debt doesn't equal a good paying job, and consider the trades a viable option, it won't improve.


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## Agage1 (Jun 16, 2016)

I agree people do need to learn and appreciate basic skills. Last week I got a call from a customer saying that the electric on his new house we built was going crazy and he didn't feel safe. So I rushed down and drove an hour to see what the issue was. Turned out a light bulb burned out and he didn't screw the new one in all the way! Come on now


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

My guy has come around somewhat. Picking up the processes now and has proven dedicated and reliable. We did well on my last job so we put together a bonus package for him.


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

A&E Exteriors said:


> My guy has come around somewhat. Picking up the processes now and has proven dedicated and reliable. We did well on my last job so we put together a bonus package for him.




Hmmm did he help you roof at all on that last job ?


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

NYgutterguy said:


> Hmmm did he help you roof at all on that last job ?


He was there every minute I was


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## NYgutterguy (Mar 3, 2014)

A&E Exteriors said:


> He was there every minute I was




Now I see how you were able to lay 30. Thought I saw two hoses in pic


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

NYgutterguy said:


> Now I see how you were able to lay 30. Thought I saw two hoses in pic


Lol...he was passing!


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

A&E Exteriors said:


> Lol...he was passing!


Aw dude! You had us thinking that whole job was a one man electrical band!!!


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Aw dude! You had us thinking that whole job was a one man electrical band!!!


Oh boy...here we go!

Now all of a sudden a passer is not acceptable


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

We don't let him use nail guns just yet


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

A&E Exteriors said:


> We don't let him use nail guns just yet




Lefty?


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Mordekyle said:


> Lefty?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, I shingle either direction


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

So if you shingle in the LH direction, do you nail right to left? Use the gauge?


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Buy that boy some sleeves.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

VinylHanger said:


> Buy that boy some sleeves.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




Baby steps. I'm just glad he's finally wearing a shirt. 


Gary


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

A&E Exteriors said:


> No, I shingle either direction


Oh boy - you shingle both ways?!

I see where this is going...


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## Home wood (Mar 8, 2014)

I've had a hard time with helpers. But two months ago found the best helper I've had in 15yrs. On time everyday, always did what was asked of him, thought ahead, and if there was nothing needed from him at that moment he would be found cleaning the site or the trailer. He gave his notice this week and is heading of to the milwrights union. Good for him. I'm gonna miss him.
Now on to the painful hiring process again.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

Mordekyle said:


> So if you shingle in the LH direction, do you nail right to left? Use the gauge?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No I don't use the guage 
....nail right to left


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