# Waterproofing under the Hot Tub disaster



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Paragraphs are your friend. 

FIFY

Hold you horses gents ))) I am an electrician and that's is the condo of the friend of mine. It was inspected by the county and the drawing of the original support structure was design by the structural engineer. He is still 99.9% sure that structurally it's a solid project and Versa studs should be more than enough to support the weight of the hot tub. He blames the membrane design. 


Originally he wanted to put the hot tub on the 2x12's that's sit below, but the HOA wanted that hot tub to be higher - some stupid comments about the "common space" etc - so that he incorporated 2x4 Versa studs on top of the original 2x12's just to lift it up. The original hot tub was in-the-ground type that was sitting on those 2x12's for 30 years with no problems. The new one is Hot Spring "Sovereign" - it's 4800 pounds filled (water plus 6 adults) - according to specs its' actually lighter than the original one was. It was never used to the full capacity, but it was filled since February. Now, it was inspected back in July by the county inspector and apparently there was no leak - not sure how much water they put on the tile so. 


I guess the main question is - whether it is a bad design with those small Versa stud (which apparently should hold the weight of the the hot tub with no problems - according to the structural engineer), or was that a bad implementation of the waterproofing with Kerdi, but no Kerdi board - apparently Kerdi rubber was just "glued" to the underlying plywood with no Kerdi board. 


Now, we will take the floor appart - the question is how to do it right again. Kerdi board underneath the hot tub? Should there be a built up for a hot tub - to lift it up like a half an inch or so above the ground and the rest of the floor slightly lower? The floor was supposed to pitch to the 2 drains in the floor, but I am really concerned about the implementation - right now most of the water still sits underneath of the hot tub as if the hot tub actually put a ding on the floor - but not sure whether the guy just screwed it up with the tile the first time and it was pitched towards the hot tub to begin with((( The guy from beneath (2nd floor) had put 2 layers of plywood to support his hot tub - no issues there so far.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

How much did your friend pay for the work?


----------



## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

*Waterproofing Under The Hot Tub Disaster*

That's whacked out, looks like your design is for an in ground pool. Seriously, I got rid of my hot tub, pain in the ass to upkeep. I've seen a few indoors, mostly abandoned and outdated. 

I think I would have went with red guard liquid membrane with fabric, not mesh. I understand if the hot tub split or cracked like an egg what the water would do but wow, that's high up on the wall. And that stone wall hurts my eyes, use the Ditra for a wall covering.

I'd probably double the plywood as well, fastened extremely well for the second layer, 6" in field, 2" on sheet perimeter.

What's the ventilation system?

My brother had a hot tub built inside, I think it fit 14, they said the LA Rams had two of them, I was a bit younger, so I heard about the parties and ladies.

There also has to be zero gaps with the framing members, once the weight is applied there's bad movement.


----------



## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

What a nightmare ............total gut job and start over or tell your buddy to forget the hot tub idea. Unless he has a lot of money. 

What's the floor system made out of ? What are those white pipes running under the 2x4's ? How in the world did they get that hot tub up and in there ? 



Good luck.


----------



## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

ajbolit,

There is no Kerdi, Kerdi board or Kerdi band visible in you pictures. What is visible in your photos is Ditra. Ditra is not water proof unless the seams are sealed with Kerdi band. This appears to be a lack of knowledge on which Schluter products to use and how to install them properly.

DO NOT install Kerdi board below this hot tub.

Call Schluter, they will help you get this right. 

Tom


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

I will post another picture - they did seal between the rolls - its' visible there. 
There are no white pipes under 2x4 - those are 2x12" (they had to replace one of the old ones that was cut during the original construction). 
The whole building sits at the base of the mountain in the Rockies and each unit has a dedicated hot tub room with the built in automatic ventilation system to keep the moisture down. Realistically so - since its' so dry out there - a lot of owners just keep the doors to those rooms open - to increase humidities in the condos'. 
They used the crane to lift the hot tub to the balcony of the unit - to the condo through the door (jambs needed to be removed) - and into the hot tub room through the french doors. 
They hadn't made final payment to GC yet - it was the whole unit remodel and the final walk through was 2 days ago. So the drama unfolding now of whom to blame - GC or structural engineer )) I just trying to help him out with ideas of how to do it right this time - hopefully before the ski season begins. The old design was for the "in-ground" type hot tub - and gues what - there was no membrane whatsoever for 30 years - they never had a big enough leak up untill newest and greatest was installed ))


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

Here is that picture - they did use Ditra tape to seal the edges and look like put some kind of paint on top of those.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

The starting point is for your friend to hire someone who knows what he's doing. I wouldn't trust the guys who made that mess to do it right with all the help in the world from Schluter, because they've already demonstrated that they can't read or follow simple directions. Schluter, Wedi, Laticrete, you name it, they all make systems and products that can do the job, and none of them involve rocket science. But they do require someone good.

The engineer, having been given the requirement to make the thinnest possible platform that would support the tub, did his job correctly, and I wouldn't blame him (or her). But the problem isn't the strength of that platform (I'm sure it will hold the tub without breaking) but the stiffness. The general contractor, in concert with the tile guy, needs to be able to explain that requirement, in quantitative terms (e.g. L/720) to the engineer.

It should cost your friend a pretty penny to get it fixed. I'm still curious how much he paid for that work.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

ajbolit said:


> Here is that picture - they did use Ditra tape to seal the edges and look like put some kind of paint on top of those.


I blew up those pictures, and I don't see any Kerdi band ("Ditra tape") in there. Sometimes the waffle shows through the band, but in that whole space you'd be able to see the band clearly in a bunch of spots, and I don't think it's there. Zoom in on that seam in the lower left corner, and there's clearly no Kerdi band.


----------



## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Yeah, no kerdi band visible, they just thinseted the seams add if that would do anything. 2x4s could work if properly supported, but I see way too much daylight.
It's a full do over with a different set of people. Lawyer up because it honestly looks like they knew exactly as much as you need to know to get yourself in big trouble.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

aptpupil said:


> ...
> It's a full do over with a different set of people. Lawyer up ...


... and/or call the liability insurers, if they exist. Someone's going to have to come up with let's say $30K.


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

Well, I kind of in the middle of all that mess - I did recommend that GC - never had any issues with him in the past (( and he seems like a legit guy. Don't think he ever done those types membranes so - probably will never do it again )

And I am not sure of the costs involved - they did say that they would tear it all apart and bring it back to the pre-constructed stage - down to the joists. Question is - what to do after that? If the joists had given up - we should see them angled at the wall brackets, or would they be just deformed - I don't see how structural engineeer would made such a huge mistake in calculations so. 
If that particular kerdi band is missing - that would probably explained why its leaking. Why would the tile crack so? Not enough support from 1 layer of plywood? I was reading that on Ditra website and they claim that their membrane is structurally solid - I was thinking that rubber under the tile can be squished by the tub and cause the tiles to get loose? Remember them talking about epoxy grout use to make it 100% proof ((


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

The general has some misconceptions to clean up:

You won't see anything wrong with those 2x4s - take the weight off and they'll spring right back up.

A basic rule of tile flooring is not to depend on the underlayment to provide the rigidity or strength. That comes from the framing. Small powder room floor, 1 1/4 sturdifloor, yes, you'll get some strength, but don't count on the ply to keep the floor straight under 2 1/2 tons of hot tub.

The tile would crack because the whole floor is flexing.

Epoxy and urethane grouts don't make a tiled surface absolutely waterproof. They make it somewhat more water resistant, but their main benefit is that they are durable and very stain- and chemical-resistant - they don't need to be maintained - cleaned and sealed - the way cement grouts do.

With properly set tile, I believe that you can consider Ditra to be absolutely incompressible. If you set a full hot tub on top of raw Ditra, it might squash a millimeter or two. Ditra's qualities are not the problem there.

Seriously, your friend just needs to hire someone who knows what he's doing. The longer you remain involved, and the deeper you get into the details, the more you are becoming involved in any future liability. You need to get out of it. That's my friendly advice.


----------



## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

The Ditra is not the problem, in fact I bet it's performing better than you can expect. It physically can't compress anymore than a set tile would. The tub is spanning lots of the 2x4 joists, so it can't be the plywood that is the problem. 
If there is space underneath the 2x4's there is not question that is where the flex issue is.


----------



## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> The Ditra is not the problem, in fact I bet it's performing better than you can expect. It physically can't compress anymore than a set tile would. The tub is spanning lots of the 2x4 joists, so it can't be the plywood that is the problem.
> If there is space underneath the 2x4's there is not question that is where the flex issue is.



In case the other posters haven't made it clear, you have two problems. 

A structural one and a waterproofing one. And although they may have contributed to one another, they are separate and equally disasterous issues. You have to fix them both.


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Put the 2x4's directly over the old floor joists and going in same direction. No space allowed between framing members. Install a linear drain across the hot tub entry. Slope the floor to the drain. Even with the distributed load, I would use double plywood. 

Read and follow the directions on which ever membrane system is used. Tile away.


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

I don't think he would ever hold me liable - I am just a poor electrician )) and we were hoping to get together in that same hot tub some time soon. 

So I got it with the "Ditra tape" - but according to their website it can be installed with 2" overlaps - than no tape is necessary - can't really see whether they did do it so. 

As far as structural components - those 2x4 were sitting on top of 2x12 - shouldn't have a play there.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

ajbolit said:


> ....
> So I got it with the "Ditra tape" - but according to their website it can be installed with 2" overlaps - than no tape is necessary - can't really see whether they did do it so.
> ....


Sorry but you are in over your head. There's no such thing as "Ditra tape". Here's the straight dope from Schluter's install manual for Ditra:

"where a waterproof floor is required, all DITRA and DITRA-XL seams and floor/wall transitions must be sealed with Schluter®- KERDI-BAND using unmodified thin-set mortar; see page 14"​
You need to get a pro involved, period. Or maybe you're just trolling us or something, because you must have made up "Ditra tape" out of thin air.

Time for me to unsubscribe and get some work done, or fire up the BBQ.


----------



## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

Don't let anyone tell you that you can overlap ditra. That would be like overlapping 2 sheets of plywood and then putting tile on it.

Are you maybe confusing Ditra with Kerdi? Both are made by Schluter, but are vastly different.


----------



## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

ajbolit said:


> As far as structural components - those 2x4 were sitting on top of 2x12 - shouldn't have a play there.


Those are not sitting on top of/touching the 2x12s, there is daylight under the majority of them all over the place where they they are clearly above the original framing and will flex down. But then that's been pointed out several times already....


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

Point well taken - let me talk to the owner and make him communicate directly


----------



## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

just fill the whole thing up with concrete already and call it done..


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

man, what a complete cluster. I think Bob's right on this one as these type of third person jobs usually are skimping/chincing/lying/stealing/hiding. 



ajbolit said:


> Point well taken - let me talk to the owner and make him communicate directly


You were involved with troubleshooting of this in all things you don't know, and now when someone is going to stop by and try to help, you first were going to let him wander around alone, but now you're going to let him talk to the owner.

Sounds like to me the owner is running you around in circles because he can, thus anyone involved with you you bring around with you in those circles, like the last 6 pages for the people here. My experience is most of the work in the mtns are mexicans except for a few licensed trades, like yours. Which probably explains why you are playing the GC on this one.


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Whoa… Slow down fellas. 

First, I think Victor was simply trying to help his friend out here. If the HO had gotten on directly, this would have been shut down quickly.

Second, I have been in contact with the owner and he has sent me the engineering (stamped plans) and some pictures of the demo going on now (they’ve started to tear it out).

My take on the info I’ve got so far:

•	The engineering looks legit. It looks to me like the load calcs are sufficient and ridged (L841) 
•	It appears that some modifications were made to the design concepts – I don’t believe the engineer knew that tile was going to be installed. His original plan was a simple generic membrane below an elevated “deck” type structure. 
•	The framing could have been done better. The original floor is a patchwork of framing and cedar shims were used to fill the daylight we saw in the original pictures.
•	The Ditra was not installed anywhere close to proper. Whether this was a low bid situation, inexperienced installer (at an appropriate price) or something else – doesn’t matter at this point. The fact is this was an installation phuck-up. The installer at any price had no clue.
•	I’m not sure whose idea it was to install 12 x 24 tile to drain to a 4” drain. This is just stupid.

Last, my schedule has changed and I will not be able to get up there to see for myself. I think we have enough information to give some direction (which is all I committed to do in the first place) – basically redesign the project (both aesthetically and functionally) and find a GC that has experience.

The HO asked if I was interested – I am not – but I see no reason why this can’t be built.

Paul


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Hope the sparky likes doing that or if not, learned. Time or two I've been the unofficial GC for the HO and not gotten anything I was supposed to do done/took longer and in the end, turned everything over to the HO anyway.


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

CO762 said:


> man, what a complete cluster. I think Bob's right on this one as these type of third person jobs usually are skimping/chincing/lying/stealing/hiding.
> 
> Sounds like to me the owner is running you around in circles because he can, thus anyone involved with you you bring around with you in those circles, like the last 6 pages for the people here. My experience is most of the work in the mtns are mexicans except for a few licensed trades, like yours. Which probably explains why you are playing the GC on this one.


What's you problem again? You don't need to follow or comment here - I am doing that for fun. If you are not - go relieve your anger somewhere else. 
My experience with that mountain condo - you can't move without a permit, GC and HOA approval. Where is yours coming from? If all you do is dealing with skimping/chincing/lying/stealing/hiding - stop, do something else - would definitely improve your humor.
No one does it with that particar job - and yes - there is still such a thing as a handshake out there and some people still enjoy what they are doing and learn while doing that. 
Pretty sure that particular GC, installer and HO will learn something new at the end. 
And thanks Paul for taking a look at it.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

ajbolit said:


> What's you problem again? You don't need to follow or comment here - I am doing that for fun. If you are not - go relieve your anger somewhere else.
> My experience with that mountain condo - you can't move without a permit, GC and HOA approval. Where is yours coming from? If all you do is dealing with skimping/chincing/lying/stealing/hiding - stop, do something else - would definitely improve your humor.
> No one does it with that particar job - and yes - there is still such a thing as a handshake out there and some people still enjoy what they are doing and learn while doing that.
> Pretty sure that particular GC, installer and HO will learn something new at the end.
> And thanks Paul for taking a look at it.


Definitely nice of Paul to look at it.

What strikes me about this project (maybe Robert, too) is what seems like the "winging it" nature of it. From a long way away, it sure looks like a whole bunch of important questions were asked and answered without a lot of care:

Hey, the demoed floor doesn't look as clean as what the engineer expected. Can we improvise?
The engineer didn't spec tile. Can we just apply tile instead of what was spec'ed?
Can we put down 12x24 tile?
Lowes sells some **** called "Ditra". Should we give it a shot?
 Etc.

Handshakes and informality work fine when there's a background of professional knowledge and trust. In that case the knowledge was clearly missing, and the result is unsurprising.

The reason we're not very sympathetic is that it is all easily avoidable. When you find some hacked-up amateur mess in your trade - electrical - do you just shrug it off as a good try? I doubt it.

All IMO.


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

Engineer didn't spec tiles - he didn't wan't to be involved in the membrane and tiling - probably because he is too smart for that. The difference between tile and no tile - barely nothing - change in maximal downward deflection of 0.02". 
Improvization - do it all the time, this particular time they screwed up with the new product - I am sure everyone on that forum had done so once or twice. 
I would rather not discuss how much who paid for what and why did they decided to do it one way or the other. We trusted the guy to do the job - he failed. He is willing to re-do it and we are just trying to figure out how to avoid another disaster. 
They are demoing the floor as we speak. So far - no obvious joists failures noted - too bad can't post pics here. 
So, to conclude - for the new flooring install: 
- should we put Versa studs on top of the existing 2x12" intimately ( current 2x4" Versa studs sitting on the old plywood and shimmed where plywood is missing), or just keep the old plywood and shim with metal shims?
- should we put 2 layers of 3/4" plywood on top of Vesa studs, or can we put 1 layer and than cut the piece for just under the hot tub, thus elevating the hot tub to facilitate water drainage?
- Kerdi board for the vertical walls and Ditra on the floor plywood with Kerdi band to seal and 24 hours water test. 
- Smaller size tile (would 4x4" be small enough?) with epoxy grout - any suggestions as far as the grout or tile - we used Laticrete grout first time. Should we choose any special porcelain tile that is stronger and/or more water resistant?


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

Or, looks like the file attachments is back on line - here we go


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

These are joists attachments - look like they havent moved to me


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

ajbolit said:


> You don't need to follow or comment here - I am doing that for fun. If you are not - go relieve your anger somewhere else.


No anger. I guess you don't have any interest in that project then other than chatting about it. I should have realized it as there were 5 pages of running around in circles. I thought you were trying to get resolution, but from what I can tell you aren't involved in the job.

Just seemed like a lot of people were wasting their time, which is usually common with side/under table deals. 



> Pretty sure that particular GC, installer and HO will learn something new at the end.


I guess if the GC is looking he could find some resolution, or his subs that did the job. Someone relaying information from a bunch of different people to other people when they aren't even involved, to a homeowner that's not in the trade(s) in my experiences, usually is quite the long way at coming to a resolution, if ever.
That's all.


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

And these are the one I wanted to post earlier - just to put it in perspective


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

A few questions that come to mind.

What is the actual structural situation? Somehow or another a 3/4" deflection got mentioned in this thread - I don't have the patience to go back to find it, but do you know what the actual deflection of that floor was? That the connectors don't show slippage doesn't mean anything - maybe the whole assembly is all floppy. Or maybe not, and all the talk about deflection is just our imaginations at work. I would sure figure it out before putting it all back together again, though.
If there is a raised, Trex-covered platform over the floor (appeared in some picture or another), why are you putting tile on the floor? Maybe you just need a membrane that is perfectly waterproof and easily cleaned (DaVinci's thinking, just repeated by me.)
 How are you going to manage cleaning and ventilation of the space under that raised deck? You should provide for lifting the deck sections and spraying or cleaning the floor below. In that situation the drains really need to function properly.
 How does putting a piece of plywood under the tub solve the drainage problem? You need to locate the drains and slope the floor so that the water flows to the drains. (If the floor is purely functional and hidden below a raised deck, this should be simple).
This all seems very commonsensical to me.


----------



## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

After seeing those last pics, I would never trust that same person to do the floor a second time. Good god. Are you actually the homeowner on this?


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Here's the email I just sent off to the homeowner. Hopefully we can put this one behind us. I changed the HO's name :laughing:

_Billy-Jo-Bob,

I apologize for my change in plans. My schedule changed in the last minute. 

While I would have liked to have seen the project first hand, I believe the plans and photographs you provided give me a fairly good picture of what happened and what needs to happen. 

I would like to be clear on my position here. I am not a paid consultant to the project. I am not an engineer. Further, I’m not a fan of indoor hot tubs, ponds, swimming pools, etc. There is considerable liability and potential problems with indoor water features.

Having said that, I would like to give you some help and direction. Below is my analysis:

•	I believe the engineer’s structural plans and specifications are sufficient to carry the load.
•	I think some liberties were taken with the engineer’s plans that he was unaware of. Specifically, I don’t see that tile was in any way part of his plans and the framing for the deck was changed. 
•	I think some design consideration needs to take place. 
o	What is the purpose of the tile below the tub and decking? 
o	How will the drains work? Are they there just for a catastrophic event? Or are they there to remove general tub usage water that falls through the deck?
o	How will you clean under the decking?
o	All of the above will determine drain type, tile size and installation.
•	Once the design considerations are accounted for, now you’re ready for engineering.
•	I believe the framing (the 2 x 4 installation) was done poorly. The engineer’s plans are good – the execution was poor. The 2 x 4’s need to be in full contact with the members below and fastened securely. Once the framing is completed, pay for the engineer to come out to inspect and write a written report.
•	I believe the Ditra installation was an abortion. I don’t know why you’re tiling under the deck, but if you’re again going to tile under the tub and decking you will need to find a very experienced installer. I do not have a referral for your area. I would recommend contacting Capco (they have a store in Dillon) and ask them if they can recommend an installer with lots of experience with Schluter products. There is no gray area - no matter what membrane is specified, you must follow their installation specifications.
•	If you are going to proceed with the decking around the tub, you should consider systems designed for this. Here’s a link to one we’ve used in the past http://www.tiletechpavers.com/adjus...Ecu19F6lEcDKZxoK_SYBVapsKXdb6h8mFMhoCjjXw_wcB
•	This project is very doable. As I said, there is considerable liability here and you should be prepared pay for the amount of experience required and the risk being assumed. Don’t go with the lowest price on this.

I sent the info you provided me to a couple of other GC’s to look at. All of us are in agreement that we could and would build your project. It is buildable.

That’s about as far as I can go with advice. I wish you luck and you know how to reach me if you have questions.

Paul
_


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> •	I believe the Ditra installation was an abortion.


Man, I love reading technical reports. 
Read and follow the directions? What kind of crazy talk is that?


----------



## ajbolit (Sep 6, 2015)

I am the homeowner - Victor gave me his log in. 
- According to engineer's report maximal downward deflection of the structure should be 0.17" - thus calculated L/830 - should be more than rigid enough for tile
- yes - the hot tub was sitting on the subfloor level that was tiled to allow for easy cleaning. The trex was supposed to be made removable, but of course it wasn't (except for a few planks in front of the hot tub to get the access to the electrical panel). 
- hot tub needs to be leveled - if we are to raise it over the floor by installing additional layer of plywood just under the hot tub, we can easily slope the foor around the tub towards the drains while keeping the hot tub elevated and leveled - so hopefully water wouldn't stay under the tub
-drains are there to provide for the excess water from the regular hot tub use, and of course for catastrophic scenarios. We were considering Schluter linear drains, but would have to install it across the Versa studs - cant do it without lifting the subfloor which we trying to avoid
-engineer was fine with the 2x4" sitting on top of the plywood - given that he had only seen that install after the leak. We don't see any indentation that Versa studs put on the plywood for whatever it worth. The framing was inspected by the county and approved prior to membrane installation
- thanks for advise in regards to finding an experienced installer - simply can't - thus our frustration and this post here. 

Can you please just comment with your suggestions of how to improve the project? 
As of now we are back to the joist level. So:
1. Should we re-do Versa studs and put it on top of 2x12"s? 
2. What to put on top of the Versa joists - just plywood, or should we consider hardiebaker? 
3. What type of membrane to use? 
4. Tile or no tile and if tile -what tile and grout to use?
5. Any ideas of how to make that trex flooring removable to allow for servicing of the tub and cleaning - thanx for advice Paul - will call those guys tomorrow.


----------



## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

If the engineer says the versa studs are fine as is, then leave them. Looked like an unprofessional install from what I saw, but I don't have much experience with these projects.
Need plywood over versa studs. Engineer will tell you what thickness to achieve the l/830 that he spec'd.
If Schluter isn't helping then go with Noble, maybe they will be more helpful.
4x4 or under is probably what you want tile-wise.
Use a non-cementitous grout -epoxy, urethane, fusion.


----------



## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

Seriously?

We performed triage on what went wrong with your first attempt - now you want the second attempt designed and spec’d? Will you want us to build it for free as well? Should we plan on cleaning the hot tub and testing the pH value weekly for you?

You have now overstayed your welcome.

I’m out-a-here!


----------



## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3351672/under-the-hot-tub-waterproofing-disaster

This was a HO all along 

Whatever you do......peel open your wallet and hire someone qualified.


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Since we're on the downhill side of this thread, I will say that this picture, from the Gardenweb thread, says a lot to me:


----------



## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Wow...and newbies wonder why we are such a defensive/synical bunch...it is because of HO's like this who try to get free help. What a cluster...


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

dsconstructs said:


> http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3351672/under-the-hot-tub-waterproofing-disaster
> 
> This was a HO all along
> 
> Whatever you do......peel open your wallet and hire someone qualified.


Too bad you weren't able to find that before this train wreck started. Please ban this guy or close this thread.


----------



## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

olzo55 said:


> Please ban this guy or close this thread.


Both.

And yea, I didn't even look until he mentioned being given the log in info yet continued in the same exact manner. Found another one trying to take shortcuts for his electrical too http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2653293/how-to-avoid-running-50-amp-circuit


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

ajbolit said:


> There was never a written agreement between GC and the owner.
> Point well taken - let me talk to the owner and make him communicate directly
> I would rather not discuss how much who paid for what
> Pretty sure that particular GC, installer and HO will learn something new at the end.
> I am the homeowner


Like I said, jobs like this someone is usually hiding or sneaking or lying.
Oh, that was you.
Worm.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> What a cluster...


Be careful as victor or roberto or whatever his name is sensitive.
But you got in before the lock. :thumbsup:

I just can't believe ya'll went on 5 pages with that buffoon.


----------



## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

Well Bob actually called it in like the first 5 posts.


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

dsconstructs said:


> Found another one trying to take shortcuts for his electrical too http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2653293/how-to-avoid-running-50-amp-circuit


at least he isn't lying on that board.



ajbolit said:


> If all you do is dealing with skimping/chincing/lying/stealing/hiding - stop, do something else-would definitely improve your humor.


good thing I didn't tell him how to do this or I'd not be in good humor.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Good catch, Don.

Thanks for posting on ContractorTalk.com. The Moderators of this forum would prefer that you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com 

ContractorTalk.com is designed for professional contractors to discuss issues and topics related to the construction and remodeling industries. Many of our professional contractors are also members at DIYChatroom.com and are looking forward to assist you with your needs.

Please take a moment to post your question at www.DIYChatroom.com If you're not already a member of DIYChatroom.com you can sign up for a free account by going to http://www.DIYChatroom.com/register.php/

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused. This thread has been closed.


----------

