# advice from a contractor please...



## carpenterjosh (Apr 28, 2009)

hello im new to the site and i am only 19 and im in a pickle. currently i work for a general contractor out of olympia washington. we mostly do small commercial carpentry( rough and finish). i am looking into getting into a union, i really like carpentry but my dad and my uncle are union plumbers. they tell me there is no money being a carpenter , but i love it and im really good. any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

josh


----------



## FJRFencer (Apr 16, 2009)

My advise.
Do what you like to do. you will be happier doing it making less money than doing something that makes you more money that you hate doing every day.


----------



## carpenterjosh (Apr 28, 2009)

ive been told that carpenters are becoming obsulete because tinners are building walls now because of metal studs. i just dont know what to do


----------



## mhillc (Apr 5, 2009)

You can make a good living being a carpenter if you really like it tell your dad and uncle to shut the hole in there face :thumbsup:


----------



## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

If you really love it, you will make a good living at it.G


----------



## rbsremodeling (Nov 12, 2007)

Listen to you Daddy and Uncle and become a Plumber. Be rich and miserable, not broke and miserable.


----------



## carpenterjosh (Apr 28, 2009)

i understand that if i do what i like i will be happy but im worried about my future. if i have to be something else so i can afford to take care of my family because theres no need for a carpenter i will. im not afraid of work i love it. someday i will have a wife and kids and i want to be able to support them and give them everything i never had growing up. im sure that dosnt mean much though...


----------



## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

Follow your dream,dude


----------



## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Dreams are nice to have but you NEVER know what life will hand you. My advice is to not make too many very specific plans, do what you think will make you happier and realize that that will change, no matter what you pick. 
Don't worry so much, life is something you have to figure out as you go.
Now learn where that shift key is on the keyboard so you can use capital letters where needed.:thumbsup:

Andy.


----------



## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Becoming a good carpenter (a real carpenter) is going to take some work, but its worth it to some of us. If its money you want become a stockbroker, if you want to be a builder for your generation stick with carpentry and learn everything you can. Be warned though, a plumber becomes a master after 4 years and passing a test, a carpenter will still be learning after 40 years and will only be a master in the eyes of those who give the title to few men.


----------



## carpenterjosh (Apr 28, 2009)

you are right, my boss has been telling me about a true carpenter and how he is allways learning new tricks of the trade. when my boss is working next to me im in awe. he makes the saw do some amazing things. some day i wish i could do half the things he does


----------



## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Someday someone will say the same about you. Learn then teach when the time comes to show the next generation. That's what we do.:thumbsup:


----------



## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

If you like woodworking there are many opportunities in your area outside of construction. The pool of fine woodworkers is getting pretty shallow and the $$$ are going up. The baseline here is about $20 per hr. and there are a few that easily double or triple that in the custom yachts.

I have a friend that considers $700-1K a bad day. He also considers a 4-day work week a bit of a stretch.


----------



## carpenterjosh (Apr 28, 2009)

right now im making $15/hr and i thought that was pretty good


----------



## Ashcon (Apr 28, 2009)

*to do it is to love it*

There will be people that you meet that will make more that you, but if you do what you love, you will meet few people that love what they do more that you. I have been working as a carpernter since 1990 and started @ $6.50/hour. I have my own business and charge out my employees @ $ 33/hour. As a carpenter you should learn how to frame drywall, trim, insulate, roof, install windows and doors, build and install cabinets if you have the right tudors through the years you can become the G.C. Good luck


----------



## SLSTech (Sep 13, 2008)

First off as this is the Intro area - welcome to CT & do us a favor & put your location in your profile.

I have to agree with everyone above, follow your dreams & pursue them with a passion & you should succeed. By the way, you don't need to be in a union to succeed, there are many pros & cons to being in a union, I would evaluate those carefully.

Your dad & uncle while pressuring you, just want to see you succeed & if your in the same union as them, they can protect you / help you. They may give you grief years later for not being a plumber, but they will still be proud of you if you succeed & do your / their last name justice.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

silvertree said:


> Someday someone will say the same about you. Learn then teach when the time comes to show the next generation. That's what we do.:thumbsup:


Teaching is the Responsibility of us all. Start NOW!


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

I am of the opinion that if you join "The Unions" you will LIMIT yourself to being one of "Them". You will learn how to milk a job and to not progress or advance your skills beyond that which the job calls for.

I am close friends with many Union Guys. MANY. They ALL milk the system and do as little as possible at all times BECAUSE that is what they have learned!

You will NEVER become a True Craftsman whilst associating in this realm. If you attempt to do something different or beyond the SOW (Scope Of Work), you will get "Blackballed" and castigated because you will make the other Union Guys look bad. 

It is ALL Politics!!! And it sucks!!


----------



## Graham J (Nov 7, 2008)

*Carpentry going obsolete?*

That is absolutely not true. Carpentry will be around as long as people need to live in homes, be it a high rise, or a two bedroom bungalow. Period. I chose to get into this trade because you can't build a house with a computer. You can design it, but you have to cut wood (or steel studs) and fit it together to have something to live in. Without carpenters, your dad and uncle (with all due respect) would have nothing to hang their plumbing in.

You can make good money being a carpenter. It will take a lot of work, and you will probably scrape the bottom a couple of times on take off, but if that is what you love, and you are already somewhat skilled at that, FLY AT IT!!:w00t::w00t:

I sincerely wish you all the best in your endeavors.
Graham


----------



## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

carpenterjosh said:


> ive been told that carpenters are becoming obsulete because tinners are building walls now because of metal studs. i just dont know what to do


On union jobs, metal studs are the province of the carpenters union. As is form work and scaffolding. Large scale wood framing projects, and extensive finish work still exists as union work, but is diminishing


----------



## JWilliams (Nov 11, 2008)

or bring up a dead thread from 2009?


----------



## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

As a carpenter you should learn how to frame drywall, trim, insulate, roof, install windows and doors, build and install cabinets if you have the right tudors through the years you can become the G.C. Good luck[/QUOTE]



Yeah thats what we need..... More guys without business skills thinking they own a business when in reality they own a job.


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

mrcharles said:


> As a carpenter you should learn how to frame drywall, trim, insulate, roof, install windows and doors, build and install cabinets if you have the right tudors through the years you can become the G.C. Good luck




Yeah thats what we need..... More guys without business skills thinking they own a business when in reality they own a job.[/QUOTE]

What difference does it make?


----------



## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Yeah thats what we need..... More guys without business skills thinking they own a business when in reality they own a job.


What difference does it make?[/QUOTE]

If you own the business you should be making six figures without touching a hammer. If you choose to do some of the work yourself it should be bonus money. In recent years the prices have been driven so low that the idea of having a showroom, making good money, and being able to pay your workers well and offer them benefits is almost impossible. 

This works out in the favor of the tradesman as well. If they are working for a solid company that keeps them busy, provides them with healthcare, and a retirement plan. They can make a nice living working 40 hours and not have the added stresses that come along with being the boss. 

I don't have a problem with anyone owning their own business, provided that they are licensed, carry all insurances, and are charging enough that they could make their money strictly by managing the project. I'm only talking about GC's here. You shouldn't have to make your money as a GC by swinging a hammer. 

I do my fair share of work, I just hope to aspire to running a larger operation, and I feel that not enough people play by the rules.


----------



## ultimatetrim (Sep 7, 2011)

Just remember hogs get slaughtered and sows get fatter


----------



## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

mrcharles said:


> If you own the business you should be making six figures without touching a hammer. If you choose to do some of the work yourself it should be bonus money. In recent years the prices have been driven so low that the idea of having a showroom, making good money, and being able to pay your workers well and offer them benefits is almost impossible.
> 
> This works out in the favor of the tradesman as well. If they are working for a solid company that keeps them busy, provides them with healthcare, and a retirement plan. They can make a nice living working 40 hours and not have the added stresses that come along with being the boss.
> 
> ...


So pretty much what ever rules you make up equates to your definition of owning your own business. Whatever!


----------



## otislilly (May 30, 2012)

carpenterjosh said:


> i understand that if i do what i like i will be happy but im worried about my future. if i have to be something else so i can afford to take care of my family because theres no need for a carpenter i will. im not afraid of work i love it. someday i will have a wife and kids and i want to be able to support them and give them everything i never had growing up. im sure that dosnt mean much though...


well if you didnt have it growing up that tells you how great your dads union work is lol. I was in union in PA, and anyone who is not afraid of work would rather commit suicide than be tied down with thier rules, "what are you doing, put your brother to work" though I do miss the 3 days a year you could honestly just call in drunk and go back to bed.
Everyone has to pay thier dues, work thier way up in this world. I just dont do construction, I live construction. I work for ME now, follow what you want to do, but dont do it blind. Set your goals, and work yourself that direction. the world will never run out a need for Good Craftsmen, in fact the price for us just keeps going up. learn all you can about everything you can, and next week will take care of itself.


----------



## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

you know i`m torn here . listening to you guys 
i am licensed as a g.c. for over 25 years 
i am still hands-on . i don`t want to be , but the profit margin has reduced so much in miami , that i have no choice
i did , at one time have 6-10 guys working for me , and subbed everything lese out .
i was totally legit . workmans comp , and all.
it just didn`t last 
i do stay busy as a craftsman( still licensed , and insured) as one of you guys called it . i was raised in this town , and have no shortage of referrals 
but i still get beat out by price on larger jobs . i don`t charge really high. i base my costs at about $40 an hour , and put on 15-20% on the subs 
some projects , i don`t oput on that percentage one just to get in at a lower bid
its just not that easy.
in the meantime , i see the plumbers , and electricans i know walk into a home , and not give a price . they work by the hour , and get anywhere from $80-$100 an hour .they also mark up their materials anywhere from 20-30%
YEAH I`VE THOUGHT , OVER THE YEARS THAT IF I WOULD HaVE TO DO IT OVER AGAIN , i WOULD CONSIDER being a plumber or electricain .
( sorry about the caps)

also if you ever want to sell your business , you`d have a better chance as a service company with clientell , and service trucks 
carpenter/conttractors can rarely sell their business for anything , because the customers want " them" there.not a new guy who bought his reputation.
unfortunately customers look at what we do as " handyman " work , and feel , that we overcharge . they can always find an illegally handyman to do the work for 1/2 the money . they`d rather take the chance on sub-par-work.
some of those illegals do good work , but its just not fair they can get the job because they have no overhead.
i`m 53 years old , now , and its just toughter to be physical all day 
i do have a couple good carpenters who help when i need it .
but its a tough trade.
if i wanted to decide to go work for someone ., thereis no insurance or health plan , or retirement plans . and i don`t know many companies down here who have much of a job oportuniy
i `m over-run with work . i do my bids , get my materials , go to the dump , and chase money . so i don`t make a true $40 an hour week . i still consider maybe either going to work for a company( even though its been 25 years on my own) with some kind of benefits. city is not hiring anymore , home depots don`t pay enough to live off . keeping going as i am now scares me . i have no retirement plan , and don`t make that much to put away.
i think alot about all this.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

You are spot on! Ill bet its the same for most in this industry. I have a daughter in college and a son almost there, if that means strapping on the bags to take Care of my family I'll will do so. I to had two full crews at one time. ill bet this is probably the new norm.


----------



## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

*spike7*

thank you !!
i do actually feel better you said that .
we`ve put both kids through school
we`ve even tried another business ( a salon) , and had 2 properties besides our own 
but with an illness with our son that lasted 5 years , and the economy crash , we totally went banckrupt , and are starting over.
i truly don`t mind the small jobs , and doing my own work . i get maybe 3-6 big projects a year , and then rest are 1-7 day jobs
its just that at 53 , i`m worried " how much longer can i keep this up"

as for the guy who started this thread . i wish i would have thought about this more at your age
$15 an hour sounds like alot only to a 19 year old . no offense meant at all
out of high school (1976) I WAS BEING PAID $10 AN HOUR UNDER the table.
most guys i hire now , make anywhere from $12-$20 an hour .
that does show much improvement in the industry in 35 years 

i`d stay in your trade if you like it 
but also , i`d hope you would take courses in small business managment , and maybe get a degree in construction
one of my freinds from school did that
he quite being a general contractor in his 40`s ,, and got on with the city , and it took him only a few years to be head building inspector because he had a bachelors in construction.

so keep options open buddy.
make yourself that exception to the basic guy who trolls around in the carpentry trade and just ends up like myself

my dad always said 
plan your work , and work your plan 
i guess the same applies in life

i do appreciate this thread


----------



## onthelevel (Apr 6, 2011)

You have to love what you do. 
Or else you will hate going to work eventually. 

Carpenters can make really good money but you have to separate yourself from the herd. 
Your work has to stand out from all the hacks and jacks.

Do what YOU want to do. It's your life and you're gonna be doing it every day. Follow your gut.


----------



## livingsoulsdie (Sep 29, 2006)

I'm 25 I started at 18 making $6.50 an hour picking up trash and didnt even know how to read a tape measure. I now am confident in saying I am very knowledgeable about the trade and know how to do almost all aspects of building a house properly. Although I do ask a lot of questions at times I still would rather put my pride away ,ask the questions, and do it right the first time, rather than guess do it wrong & then do it twice or even three times. I currently make $20.00 Hr & I love what I do. I enjoy going to work everyday and in the near future I will start my own business.

Dont let anyone tell you what to do. Its your life and if your passion is building stuff then stick with it. If you want to put pipes together and thats your passion go for it. I personally get satisfaction from know that "I built this place" ! Have fun man


----------

