# Are the Steps Legal?



## JD3lta (Nov 22, 2009)

I was browsing the Internet and saw this picture. I have never even thought of this. Is it illegal? I think it would be, thoughts?


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Yeah sure, weve done hearths like that too.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

No. No hand rail, open risers, and inconsistent rise. However, it is really cool!


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

They are called floating steps and are a common feature in drystone walling. Honestly cant say if they are legal but I was always under the impression on that anything that was around 30" or so.

I happen to know the guy that did this, not personally but from another forum. Believe it or not he is not a fulltime professional mason..he owns a scooter shop but has been training with the DSWC and is a "certified" dry stonewaller. As you can see from the picture, he is a capable dry waller. He writes an interesting blog called rockinwalls too.

J, did you get the picture from his blog or a google search?


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## JD3lta (Nov 22, 2009)

Stonecutter, I saw it through a google.com search. Inevitably, I am linking it from his Blog that you mention: http://www.rockinwalls.blogspot.com/


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Don't ask! Don't tell! The sheer ingenuity and coolness far outweighs any legal infractions those steps might incur. I'd glady take my life into my own hands, daily, if that wall was at my house.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> No. No hand rail, open risers, and inconsistent rise. However, it is really cool!


Since when is open risers against code? I do however see an issue with not having a handrail. Overall, it looks pretty cool.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

gotta ask. Is that fieldstone?


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Lol yeah it is.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

As long as the drop off on the right side meets local code, it would not require a hand rail. It would be no different than making stone steps from one level of a paver patio to the next.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dom-mas said:


> gotta ask. Is that fieldstone?


are you just trying to highjack the thread or start trouble?:laughing:

Dom, its a combination.... He describes the stone he used on the blog as PA Bluestone, Butler stone and local white historic barn stone. 


I would call the "barn stone" fieldstone because the ones I can see are irregular and show the characteristics of an unquarried stone. To me this is fieldstone. The Butler stone and PA Bluestone is a quarried stone but probably natural cleft. A couple quarrys in CT would call this stone #2 because it was rough..like fieldstone. Since it was cut from a larger mass of rock I dont consider it fieldstone...IMO.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

it was just jokes.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

dom-mas said:


> it was just jokes.


you funny....


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## JD3lta (Nov 22, 2009)

It just intrigues me that you can have stone steps without gravel or crushed stone underneath.


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## Rockin Walls (Jan 22, 2012)

*Thank you all!*

Thank you for all the intresting views on my clients wall. I have to say I was first inspired by a well know Vermont Mastor Dry Stone Mason - Dan Snow. From his book : In The Company Of Stone, Job "Water Wall and Reflecting Pool". He has 6 or so steps on the back side of the freestanding water feature. WOW!

Some basic details - the stone is local stone from the site. over 40 feet of wall was removed or used some place else on the property. Over 100 years of taking the wall a part and re-using it some place else. 

The stone is not field stone. Most likely quarried from the area at one time. You can tell quarried stone most of the times has flat faces. Field stone is a little more rough around the edges. 

The stone steps are from PA called PA BLUE STONE. The stone is a sand stone. Great to work with. Each one I split using Wedge and Feathers. From a larger slabs.

The rise is consistent 8" with a hair off hear and there but only by 1/2 inch. The natural stones give the illusion of different sizes. But the ruler does not. 

For those who love stone- please take a look at my blog www.Rockinwalls.com. I started this to help other to follow their passions. I own a Motor Cycle dealership in the State of Maryland. Specializing in Motor scooters such as Vespa new and old. www.MotoStrada.com But StoneCutter told me he was ready to buy it so I could give up and go full time with the stone work. Giving more time to hang out with all you pro's....I have spent a great deal learning from some of the best Dry stone mastor masons in the USA. I really love it. I look forward to learning all I can from every one on this group. Nice to see so may professionals. 

Floating steps are a standard walling feature which can be used to help reach a Master Craftsman Level. This building practice has been around longer then any codes. This are details of a Stone Step Stile

Chances are the Egyptian pyramids don't pass code. But funny thing I think they are still standing. To bad non of us can say we built those. Man we'd all be rich HA HA. Put that out as a job reference. Ya I build the pyramids. 

Another site I have started has more TECHNICAL DOCUMENTS- Dry Stone Resource.

Enjoy. Thank you all for keeping a eye out for me. This really seems like a great group of people from all professionals. It sure is great when we can all learn from each other.

Photo attached was from Shaker Village in KY 2011. This is an example of the Scottish link above. This was a special feature a mason built in order to reach a Mastor level for the Dry Stone Conservancy.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Welcome, Mark..


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Welcome, Rockin Walls. Around here we call those stile steps, and there is technically no code that applies.


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## Rockin Walls (Jan 22, 2012)

Thank you StoneCutter. Real cheap!! ha ha. Glad i'm now on board with this group.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Rockin Walls said:


> But StoneCutter told me he was ready to buy it so I could give up and go full time with the stone work.


Bahahaha....stop trying to pawn that shop off on me!!:laughing: I'm only interested if you start selling tools from Trow & Holden.


Now get over to the introduction thread and start typing...:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

The Dry Laid walls are definitely amazing. I'm curious how they work in a retaining wall situation, similar to the first picture. What or how do you get your strength. I assume Geo grid is a NO NO. :no: Are there some kickers or dead men that tie into the dirt behind?


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

He He 
Ya see stone cutter.

Dough!











Batter!










Batter Fried Pizza!


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Tscarborough said:


> Wait, how do we have pizza dough and drystack stone in the same thread? I am cornfused.


Its all your fault.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

It usually is.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

lukachuki said:


> Batter Fried Pizza!




 Best...drunk food...ever.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

Tscarborough said:


> Wait, how do we have pizza dough and drystack stone in the same thread? I am cornfused.


Seems reasonable. Two of life's finer pleasures, one thread.


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## Rockin Walls (Jan 22, 2012)

Sorry to ask 
What is IRC?


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

This the only pizza pic from my oven in CT, Tscar....I need to build my next one ASAP.:thumbsup:











Great now I'm starvin...


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

rockin walls said:


> sorry to ask
> what is irc?


international residential code


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

stonecutter said:


> Great now I'm starvin...


TSC has done that to me a time or two. He has no conscience!




























...about them walls?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

IRC=Internet Relay Chat. It is a source of information for building inspectors where they all get together and decide how to dick over contractors. 

OK, I kind of sort of made that up. It means *International Residential Code*, which some areas adopt as standard code and is more often used as a baseline from which to develop local code. Here in Austin it is not used at all.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

stonecutter said:


> Yeah but in sometimes in stonework thats good enough.:whistling:laughing:





Tscarborough said:


> The IRC does not apply because those are not a stairway, they are decorations in a stone wall.


In both posts above recognize that I’m on your side and as a GC, I would fight the good fight with the inspector – and I think we would win the argument that they are within code. But I think "the code does apply" is not the the approach I would take.

If just calling them “decorations” would work – I’d call all my stairs decorations and not have to worry about them being within code :no:

BTW - Welcome Rockin Walls – nice work :thumbsup:


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## Rockin Walls (Jan 22, 2012)

Thank you stone cutter-guess I learned my one thing today. I can now go to bed.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Stonecutter, the pie looks vera nice, but the oven looks even better. It is amazing to me that the concept of 45ing the floor brick is not intuitive, nor is the reveal at the inner arch.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

"If just calling them “decorations” would work – I’d call all my stairs decorations and not have to worry about them being within code "

Normal stairways involve moving from one level to another, but stile stairs do not. They really are decorations, decorations that allow humans to move over a wall without involving a gate.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Tscarborough said:


> Stonecutter, the pie looks vera nice, but the oven looks even better. It is amazing to me that the concept of 45ing the floor brick is not intuitive, nor is the reveal at the inner arch.


You realize that we are about to highjack the thread right?:gunsmilie:

We made so many different pizzas but if I had to choose only one it would be the Neo...the simplicity. 

Thanks ,Tscar. I wouldnt have done it any other way. The peel just glides along nice on the herringbone pattern. As for the reveal, thats just common sense...the door is the damper and you need a seal. ...but you know this.:thumbsup:

Man, I'm ready to go outside and start the foundation right now!


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

stonecutter said:


> Man, I'm ready to go outside and start the foundation right now!


I'm in the car headed your way and ready to help.

Sent from my iPhone


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

I hate to hijack, but if you could only see some of the pitiful examples of HO "ovens" that I have to try and fix...usually I just tell them to tear that chit down and start over. Common sense does not apply, apparently.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

The OP's original question was answered, there is nothing left to do but hijack.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Tscarborough said:


> I hate to hijack, but if you could only see some of the pitiful examples of HO "ovens" that I have to try and fix...usually I just tell them to tear that chit down and start over. Common sense does not apply, apparently.


This does it..I am starting an official wood fired oven thread right now. Oven pics, good or bad...recipes and ideas. The hijack is over!:thumbsup:


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

stonecutter said:


> This does it..I am starting an official wood fired oven thread right now. Oven pics, good or bad...recipes and ideas. The hijack is over!:thumbsup:



You have been pushed to the edge, I see!

'bout time!


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