# shingles



## Bukemdano (Mar 12, 2005)

Hi all ! 

I am looking at shingling a new construction roof. I was planning on getting Owens Co. shingles Ar40, but my buddy who roofs says they are no good and dont like em. If you guys were roofing your own roof, which I am, what shingle brand would you use without money being a concern within reason. Is Alcoa any good? Thanks for any tips or opinions... 

Thanks :Thumbs:


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I never like OC shingles. They did get a top ranking in the consumer reports ratings but the testing system was never made public so IMO the consuemr ratings report on shingles doesn't hodl any water. 

I really like Tamko, GAF and Certaineteed shingles. I put Tamko on my father's house and wouldn't hesitate to put them on my own. I feel a 40 year architectural is a waste of money. Your better off with the 30 year. They will both last just as long. 

Alcoa makes shingles? Since when?! I thought alcoa only mades vinyl and aluminum siding products.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Grand Timberlines...and Ignore Grumpy..he's off his meds.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I may be off my meds but I still do not think the upgraded shingles are worth a penny more. For example what the difference between a timberline 30 and a timberline Ultra? Well one is thicker and has a higher wind resistance. That's a fact, but both will last about the same ammount of time. 

What I mean is, in my area the average life of a roof is about 15 years. I have read reports of 12 and all the way up to 17. Roof are replaced for more reasons than them failing. Did you know the average family moves every 7 years? Quite often a perfectly good roof is replced for no other reason that the new owners do not like the color. I've done a few of these myself. So the point is your roof will probably be on your house an equal ammount of time if it is the 30 or the lifetime.

NOW let us discuss the exception to this rule. There is an exception to the rule, and you will see above I compared almost identicle shingles, the timberline. Now let us compare the timberline 30 to the GAF Grand Sequoia. The grand sequoia is a lifetime rated shingle. Who cares? I certainly do not... the LOOK is beautiful IMO. In this case you'd choose the lifetime shingle because it LOOKS much much different and unique when compared to the timberline... you wouldn't choose it due to it's warranty or iwnd resistance.

When my customers ask about upgraded shingles I give them my professional opinion, and my professional opinion is as stated above. I also tell them that there money is spent on better upgrades such as underlayments, ventilation or flashings instead of shingles. MOST of the time they respect my honest since alot of salesmen walk in the door trying to sell them the most expensive.

Not to strech this post out any further, but also keep in mind I do not sell the junk materials. No 20's on my roofs.


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

Thats a shame Grump, no 20s? Your missing a little of the market, most 80 year old people dont care about a 30.

Bob


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Bob, I don't care to put my name on junk material. If they say "I won't be here in 20 years." I tell them... "Do you want to pass junk onto your kids? The roof will still be here." In addition I may add "I have to warrant this roof, regardless of the owner. What if you sell out in 10 years the inspector is going to say you need a new roof and your selling price will go down." It's my job as a salesman to convince them not to be selfish. If all they want is the cheapest roof, I do not want them as my customer, regardless of age or financial situation.

The bottom line is I can't put my name on crap and 20's are crap... when those roofs start to fail who ever the owner at the time is, will automatically assume it's the installers fault. Even if the roof is no longer under warranty, there will be talk of "Those guys suck, my roof only lasted 12 years!" I will do anything to protect my reputation and by dealing with only quality materials that's one of the best ways to accomplish that.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Hey Bob want me to send you all my dead leads for the low baller customers who only care about price? Hell you can probably reuse their felt paper and only replace the shingles. Give them a one year warranty, the minimum allowed by law, and then wait to be sued.


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

OK OK calm down there tiny Tom, your going to brake a brain vain.

I was just making a counterpoint.

Bob


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I like Certainteed shingles in the Landmark line mostly. I have some homeowners who want the algea warranty so the 40 year is the best option. So far this year I've sold tons of 30's 2 40's and 3 TL Landmarks.

30 years for one roof would be a long shot nowadays.

Grumpy, I won't even give bids for 25 year shingles. If the homeowner can't afford a 30 year laminate they probably can't afford quality labor either.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Douggr what about the 30 year 3-tabs? I had a few customers in my life swear up and down they hated the look of the architecturals.


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

GAF Grand Sequoia shingles offer a 50 year 100% labor and material warranty. So do the Grand Timberline and most Lifetime rated shingles through GAF. This is a little Obnoxious if you ask me. Anyone know how this works? 50 years is a long time and like grumpy said most shingle roofs only last 20 years give or take regardless. i do know you have to be an Authorized installer to offer warranty. which i am. so how do they cover their rears for 50 years?


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

Dougger
You guys working the storm damaged areas at all yet. door to door - flyers - mailings etc...


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Minn, first off the installer must be a GAF recognized and certified contractor for the customer to get the lifetime labor warranty. This is off my memory, I quit selling GAF this year due to their insulting price increase. In addition the UPGRADED warranty costs extra and is not the standard warranty. 

Lastly to add more fuel to the fire I posted above, the warranties don't usually cover granual loss. Your 50 year roof will be close to naked, in terms of granuals, in 30 years.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

People buying these roofs wont last 50 years.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I don't know, I've ripped off 30 year old three tab shingles that didn't look that bad over the years. My builders go with Certainteed XT30's on there cheaper homes, I don't.

MNroofer, way to busy to chase storms right now. The storms were just a few miles from my home in the cities but need to catch up with last years work before I even think about taking on more jobs. Don't care much for direct advertising, like it when the homeowner comes to me looking for a bid versus the other way around. Your more likely to get stiffed by a homeowner when you go looking for work then when they are looking for you.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

dougger222 said:


> Don't care much for direct advertising, like it when the homeowner comes to me looking for a bid versus the other way around.


How does the customer find you if you don't advertise?


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

I am certified through GAF they call it Authorized. The warranties cost $50.00 they give 100% on materials for 10 years on a 25 - lifetime Timberlines. On their other lifetime shingles they give 100% labor and material coverage for 50 years and it can be transferred one time free. these shingles cost approximately twice the amount of 30 year shingles. Never seen an asphalt roof go 50 years is it worth selling this warranty 50 years 100% coverage. Average job it will cost me $1200.00 more than 30 year shingles but homeowner will not have to pay for a roof for 50 years instead of 20years.

For Dougger, I know many contractors in this area and not one of them have an easy time finding work here in minnesota this year and the previous 3 have been really crappy. If you are still catching up on last years work i would greatly appreciate any advise you could give me towards rounding up more work of my own. I will even come help you bang out some jobs if you can afford to pay decent.


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## minnesotaroofin (Nov 26, 2004)

Yes i do advertise more than i can afford to the past 3 years. small ads in phone books. I am all over the Internet. Type in some keywords for minnesota roofing or roofers you will find me atop. direct mailings. calling previous customers. 100%satisfaction in 10 years of business. even the hard to please are satisfied. I have done some radio. I will even put a yard sign up in neighborhood if it looks like people need work done -- door to door you name it i have done it. I have stacks of leads but everybody wants to wait. I have been through almost every name in the yellow pages looking to even sub some work from companies but they do not have work either.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

GAF has authorized and Master Elite. I just used the word certified so not to have to mention both  $50? They cost $125 here. I still don't think the 50 year roof is worth it even if GAF gives a labor+material warranty. 

Minn, you said the customers want to wait. I am curious, do you do follow up phone calls with the customers periodically? Have you driven past their houses to see if someone else is doing the roofs that the customers want to "Wait" on?

"Mr. Customer I can understan you wanting to wait, however I have to tell you that the roof isn't going to get any cheaper. We have about two price increases on amterials per year and a cost of living increase on labor about once a year. In addition these recent hurricanes and gas shortages have sent the price of materials up once again, and we are expecting another increase before the year is over. NOW is the TIME. So should I sign you up for the week after next?"


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Oh don't forget the all powerful: "I see so you want to wait so you can replace a ceiling and a roof? Wouldn't it be better to replace the roof now and leave the ceiling alone?"


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