# Cedar for stair tread?



## basswood (Oct 31, 2008)

Spaint90 said:


> Generally If your moisture content is 10% or below you are clear to prime and seal


For real wood products, outdoors, your number for moisture content is low, even for your climate. You want the lumber to reach ECM (equilibrium moisture content) specific to your climate (12-13% in CT and MA). Lumber coated below EMC will expand and stress the coating. Above EMC and it will shrink and... stress the coating. Best to be in the EMC sweet spot for your own climate.

In my climate the range is 13-16%

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn268.pdf

See table 2

Kiln dried lumber will naturally reach EMC in a few weeks, green stickered lumber will reach EMC in several months (large timbers even longer) and then fluctuate according to climate (location, temp, relative humidity, which vary by time of year of course).

Cheers, Bass


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## basswood (Oct 31, 2008)

GRB said:


> Yeah, I've read similar pieces before, Brian. I was just having fun with Struble.
> 
> In all seriousness, I've seen the occasional lumber come onto the job with a polished sheen on it. It's usually been smooth beveled wood siding, often cedar or redwood. We usually sand all unprimed material anyhow, so we haven't had an issue with mill glaze, whether it's real or imagined.


Good point, your method is good surface prep regardless of the mill glaze deal.

I have a forestry degree and live near the Forest Service Forest Product Lab, so I enjoy reading up on that stuff... some of it is interesting, to me anyways.


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

Nice seeing you around, Brian. :thumbsup:

Any interesting projects you're currently working on?


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## basswood (Oct 31, 2008)

I'm finishing up a Master's Thesis this summer and defending it in late Aug. or early Sept.

Then I plan to start making more sawdust again, at least on weekends and between other projects.


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## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

GRB said:


> Better than the 10-14 years or so we've been getting out of the above products (in areas not subjected to heavy traffic)? I'm all ears. :thumbsup:


10-14 years for an acryllic solid body stain on a floor..

Two part epoxy's, or a porch and floor enamel. Solid body stains are not intended for areas prone to high abrasion and impact.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

basswood said:


> Good point, your method is good surface prep regardless of the mill glaze deal.
> 
> I have a forestry degree and live near the Forest Service Forest Product Lab, so I enjoy reading up on that stuff... some of it is interesting, to me anyways.


i agree..:shifty:


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

Tom Struble said:


> i agree..:shifty:


You shouldn't. :no:

It may give people the wrong impression. :laughing:


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

Spaint90 said:


> 10-14 years for an acryllic solid body stain on a floor..
> 
> Two part epoxy's, or a porch and floor enamel. Solid body stains are not intended for areas prone to high abrasion and impact.


I did some checking today. Built the porch in the fall of 1996. Stained it spring of 1997. Re-coated it fall of 2008. 11 years. 

Keep in mind this is a true porch - it has a roof over it to protect it from the elements. The stairs (2 sets) needed re-coating before the porch did - probably around the 5 or 6 year mark. The porch doesn't see a ton of traffic, but does get used. No kids around, no sand, etc. to wear the finish off. YMMV as I said.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Deck & stairs built in 1978....

original decking & stairs intact & fully functional...:thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Spaint90 said:


> 10-14 years for an acryllic solid body stain on a floor..
> 
> Two part epoxy's, or a porch and floor enamel. Solid body stains are not intended for areas prone to high abrasion and impact.


I use porch and floor enamel, and touch up traffic areas yearly. It's make for the application.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

lookie at davis with all them post:blink:surprising a guy from coastal maine:thumbup:






they usually don't hang around long with us mere mortals here:glare:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> lookie at davis with all them post:blink:surprising a guy from coastal maine:thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thought I heard something:whistling


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Sometimes having time to post is not a good thing, and yes, I'm backlogged...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

:sad:sorry to hear,maybe more fresh fruit?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Tom Struble said:


> :sad:sorry to hear,maybe more fresh fruit?


Not that kind of backlogged...


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## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

hdavis said:


> I use porch and floor enamel, and touch up traffic areas yearly. It's make for the application.


thanks, thats what i said.

You should check out some of the 2 part epoxys they have now for wood. Definitley holds up better than the enamels, just more work to lay down.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

The problem you might run into with painting cedar is the tannin bleed through. I asked the guy at Sherwin Williams what the best primer is for stopping the bleed through on cedar, he said oil based primer would stop it. Although I've heard of tannin bleed occurring with both oil and latex primer.


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## Spaint90 (Dec 26, 2011)

KennMacMoragh said:


> The problem you might run into with painting cedar is the tannin bleed through. I asked the guy at Sherwin Williams what the best primer is for stopping the bleed through on cedar, he said oil based primer would stop it. Although I've heard of tannin bleed occurring with both oil and latex primer.


Good point Kenn. Slow dry oil will block tannin bleed. That quick dry stuff is iffy sometimes, i dont trust it. BIN is the ultimate stainblocker, however it is not a good exterior primer. Shellac is not very flexible, with the expanding and contracting seen in exterior application: bad idea.

Id recommend coverstain by zinsser. that will stop it.

Im surprised OP is going with cedar for stair treads honestly, i would think a wood like poplar would be a better choice


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## GRB (Feb 23, 2009)

Spaint90 said:


> Im surprised OP is going with cedar for stair treads honestly, i would think a wood like poplar would be a better choice


Poplar has issues when not protected from the elements. It's not very decay resistant, so it often performs poorly. Cedar, while soft, is generally fairly decay resistant.

Other woods that hold up well are locust, white oak, genuine mahogany, & teak, to name a few hardwoods (as well as some of the tropical hardwoods such as ipe & tigerwood). But they're not budget woods & can be problematic to locate &/or finish, so the most common material these days seems to be #2 PT pine (generic & encompasses a number of species), which can have its own host of issues. A far better choice is KDAT #1 PT pine - it will perform just fine for the application the OP is asking about.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Spaint90 said:


> thanks, thats what i said.
> 
> You should check out some of the 2 part epoxys they have now for wood. Definitley holds up better than the enamels, just more work to lay down.


Lots of marine products around here I've been tempted to try, but I always worry about prep before repainting. Guess I'll talk to the boat guys about the urethanes and epoxies they use and pick up some pointers.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

hdavis said:


> Lots of marine products around here I've been tempted to try, but I always worry about prep before repainting. Guess I'll talk to the boat guys about the urethanes and epoxies they use and pick up some pointers.



marine varnishes etc simply wont hold up...there is a big difference in in being completely submersed with no sunlight from constant climate and weather changes..blaring sun beating down, snows, acid rains, grit, friction etc..

however..these products you may consider come available to you for only about $225.00 per gallon...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i don't think he's talking about bottom paint


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Topside paint, but only because I can pick a bunch of brains about it. On the other hand, if I had good info on something not made for boats...:whistling


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## andyduframe (Mar 14, 2012)

GRB said:


> A far better choice is KDAT #1 PT pine - it will perform just fine for the application the OP is asking about.


Well, I went ahead and bought the cedar (for the stair treads) a couple days ago. However, I've decided not to paint it -- just keep it natural. One problem -- the rest of the porch looks so bad in comparison that now I have to replace those boards too!


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Spaint90 said:


> *However it doesnt hold up as long, and it fades in color quicker.* When it does go, it is alot easier to prep. Its a great option for siding, however it is not a great option for a porch floor


This makes it a good option for siding?

I'll stick to Duration ...


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