# This totally sucked



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

How do stainless steel braided lines go bad? Spent 4 hours this morning tearing open the ceiling of a drywalled garage to deal with a leak from a jetted tub we had installed 4 months ago. There was a 6" stainless steel braided line leaking. They were connections to the the mixer on the roman tub filler. 

The line had at a pretty tight bend in it, but no crimps, and no different then any of the other ones, the water was coming out where the arrow is in the picture.

After an install and before we cover it up with tile we always run everything for 20 minutes and keep checking underneath with a flashlight. I remember checking this tub personally. The leak started only about 3 days ago. We just had a cold spell with nights down to the 20's. There was fiberglass bat insulation insulating all of this also. Water was coming out pretty good. It would have filled a gallon bucket in about 20 minutes.

I replaced it with a 18" once which helped lesson the radius of the bend.

But that sucked ass.

What gives?


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Possibly it was just a defective part?


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Never had that happen and I always ask for braided steel. I figure they are bulletproof. I hope this is a fluke. We use the braided lines only because I was led to believe they are the best. I take it you did the install? A guy with your experience doesn't miss much, I would attribute it to bad luck.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 1, 2006)

"exposed locations only" That is on all the ss hoses I've seen. Unless the manufacturer supplied it, a hose doesn't go in a tub enclosure. Sorry for your luck. I would have the maker come see it and explain it.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

They were probably manufactured in China,probably had lead seals!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I didn't do the install, it was a plumbing sub. Unfortunately the owner decided to run off with some skirt and moved to NJ about 1 month ago. SO I got stucked and f**ked having to do the repair myself. It was a ball since the leaking part was up under the tub so I had to cut the sub floor from below to get to it, and of course there were pex lines laying on the floor directly on top of the subfloor I needed to cut. Finally figured out to go buy a wood cutting bit for my dewalt drywall roto zip and set the depth to just under 3/4, then knock the cut out with a hammer the rest of the way. Oh yead and of course it was an end joist so there was only about 5 inches between it and the rim joist.

Still sucked ass!




gitnerdun said:


> "exposed locations only" That is on all the ss hoses I've seen. Unless the manufacturer supplied it, a hose doesn't go in a tub enclosure. Sorry for your luck. I would have the maker come see it and explain it.


I've never heard that. What would be the right solution here. If you did it with copper how the hell would you remove the tub if you had to, there would be no give right? The tub would be basically permanently in there.

I'm interested in doing it right and doing it smart, the least issues later the better. Bullet proof is best.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Justs for ****s and giggles....have you tested the malfunctioning hose somewhere else. 6" is too short to really test anywhere, but I'd think it'd be interesting to know if the hose leaked because of a faulty install, or a faulty product....If it's a faulty product, 4 months old, is it your responsibility to cover damages?

I seem to think you've already thought of this....


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Not really. Customer calls about a leak, all I can think about it getting it fixed, and fast.

I kept the little bugger so...


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

It could be worse, the tub could have been over a kitchen, bedroom etc...


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Who is the manufacturer on the faucet?


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## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

I only use copper to connect my roman tub valves. Using a supply line like you did is asking for trouble, they will fail with time especially the hot. I guess you could'nt remove the skirt. You would never let your plumber hook up a shower valve that way,it's the same thing.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 1, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> What would be the right solution here. If you did it with copper how the hell would you remove the tub if you had to, there would be no give right? The tub would be basically permanently in there.
> 
> I'm interested in doing it right and doing it smart, the least issues later the better. Bullet proof is best.


A tub is not meant to be removable, why would you want to do that except to replace it. You (in FL) dont need an access hole unless you have a pump or slipjoint drains. The valve should be permanantly mounted with copper, plastic, or whatever. Why not run the pex all the way? Your plumber should have known that the ss is for exposed locations only. Those ss supplies are making things way too easy. Go buy a new one and read the label. Then go get a new plumber to do it right. I take it there were no inspections on this job? Was your sub licensed? An access hole is a good idea on tubs, but not always necessary.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

PARA1 said:


> I only use copper to connect my roman tub valves. Using a supply line like you did is asking for trouble, they will fail with time especially the hot. I guess you could'nt remove the skirt. You would never let your plumber hook up a shower valve that way,it's the same thing.


Every Phylrich roman tub filler with a handshower comes with a SS flex line to go from the diverter to the handshower hose.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Everything was inspected. No access panel possible for this (the pump we accessed through the walk in closet at the other end of the tub. The faucet was in the back right hand side next to the drain and at the end of the tub was a knee wall seperating the tub from the shower. All glass tile job.

This was the tub filler. Danze Parma, with the hand sprayer, same set up.










I'm not sure why the didn't run pex all the way other than this looked like it might have been supplied by Danze? It was the connections from the hot & cold turn ons to the filler, everything is supper close, hence the tight radius turns of everything. I don't even know how you could have run pex from the filler to the turn ons as close quarters as it is.

Any chance these were supplied with the faucet from Danze? I can't find any online instructions that might show them.

Why would I want it removable? Because there is no access panel I guess. Worst case scenario have to pull the tub.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Since many Roman tub faucets are widespread ,I always suggest the HO have an access panel for the faucet/valve,whether it's plumbed in hard or not.


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## PARA1 (Jul 18, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Every Phylrich roman tub filler with a handshower comes with a SS flex line to go from the diverter to the handshower hose.


If it's per instuctions and supplied by manufacturer-no problem.* MY LAWN MOWER CAME WITH A DISCHARGE BAG BUT THAT DOES'NT MEAN I HAVE TO USE IT.:w00t:*


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> Everything was inspected. No access panel possible for this (the pump we accessed through the walk in closet at the other end of the tub. The faucet was in the back right hand side next to the drain and at the end of the tub was a knee wall seperating the tub from the shower. All glass tile job.
> 
> This was the tub filler. Danze Parma, with the hand sprayer, same set up.
> 
> ...


Back charge your plumbing sub, I've installed a lot of those overpriced POS valves, and they do not come with flex lines, we always use brass nipples and unions underneath. The manufacturer does recommend an access if the unit has a hand shower.


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## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

Hidden connectors? How did it get passed?


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## gitnerdun (Nov 1, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> This was the tub filler. Danze Parma, with the hand sprayer, same set up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So it was the supply from the valve to the spout. If so it would only leak when the valve was in use, right? And if it came with it, by all means, use it. If that is the case then I would have to say it came with the valve. Head to wherever the valve came from and compare to another one. Danze is made in china and ,in my opinion, geared toward the do-it-yourselfer. Did the HO furnish the valve? This would be one time that I would hope so.


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## gitnerdun (Nov 1, 2006)

I did some diggin' and found this on Danze site.........
http://www.danze-online.com/products/pdfs/D305758_ss.pdf
http://www.danze-online.com/product_details.asp?id=D215000BT

It appears that they don't supply the tube in question. The plot thickens.


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## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> I'm sending Vinny the gas pipe out to visit him.
> 
> I'm looking into what can be done with one of my other plumbers, as soon as he gets a chance we are going to sit down and discuss what we can do. I'm worried about the lack of access to get to it all and being able to work in such a tight space. He doesn't seem to be too worried about it. (He is a plumber so he is probably figuring on tearing out an entire wall and letting us worry about the repairs):laughing:


Gas Pipe is flexible nowadays, so the most you could do is mess up his hair.

If it was me, I would tear out the ceiling and wall. Plumbing pipes are long term and crucial and things like studs, drywall, flooring, etc. should not be a consideration. Rip it all out because plumbing is way more important.

My favorite tool is a single jack, by the way.


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## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> How do stainless steel braided lines go bad?
> What gives?


Because inside of that secure looking ss braid cover is the same piece of crap plastic hose that the "non ss braided" ones are. Like so many other things in all of the trades, deck mount tub faucets shipped with flex lines for the connections is just another example of a poor practice having become the accepted standard.


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## marktruck (Jan 12, 2008)

This was the tub filler. Danze Parma, with the hand sprayer, same set up.

This is why I allways mount the hand shower & diverter close by the skirt
marktruck


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