# grace ice and water shield



## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

do you put ice and water shield up and down the roof rake?


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

bluebird5 said:


> do you put ice and water shield up and down the roof rake?


no, never





ever


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

We have covered entire roofs with Grace on occasion. Usually just the first row or two though, depending on the overhang. Why would the rakes be done?


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

bluebird5 said:


> do you put ice and water shield up and down the roof rake?



In high wind areas I do.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i have seen it applied up a rake wall intersection but not up the edge of the gable


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## coolflatroof (Jan 26, 2008)

we never use ice and water on rakes. in fact we try not to use it at all. we only install metal roofs, so ice and water shield is virtually uselles, and a pain in the @ss to work with. we use gaf deck armor, which works way better than ice and water. it's 5 feet wide so your bottom row is continuous 5 feet up from the eave instead of 3 :clap:... then you can seal the overlap between 1st and 2nd rows of underlayment and it becomes about 9.5 continuous feet of underlayment - now ice dams will ever break that... besides metal roofs shed water and snow, and ice dams can't penetrate them like they do with asphalt shingles - hence no need for i&w shield


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

no code requirement there for i&w?


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

coolflatroof said:


> ... besides metal roofs shed water and snow, and ice dams can't penetrate them like they do with asphalt shingles - hence no need for i&w shield


The last metal panel we saw details for (DMI) insisted on it:


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## coolflatroof (Jan 26, 2008)

Well - the code does require it - but you need to understand why - not just blindly follow it. Code also requires 8 nails per shingle. 

A building inspector showed up once on my job-site where we installed aluminum shingle. Each shingle is nailed with one nail - he wanted us to put 8 nails in aluminum shingles - really? Because it's code?  

Ice and water is code req. because asphalt shingles need it to prevent ice dams from leaking inside. Metal roofs won't leak often even without underlayment.

Another thing - 30-40 years ago many asphalt shingles roof were installed without any underlayment at all - right down to the deck :no:... where was this building inspector then?


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## coolflatroof (Jan 26, 2008)

@ jmiller - My supplier wants "waterproof barrier" and mastic under drip edge. Drip edge is installed OVER waterproof barrier mind you :thumbup: :laughing:
Bottom line every "joe shmo the roofing manufacturer" has their own installation details which are more or less similar, but a little different. There is no one roof that is right or wrong.

I for one ALWAYS install drip edge and gable trim over underlayment - not under... is it wrong? no! check out my supplier's install detail :clap:











Actually on some jobs we do install ice and water - when customer insists on it... usually under advise of their architect or builder ... however when it's my decision, i opt not to use it ... here is example:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

so the mastic your using is that like a butyl tape?


great vidieos by the way:thumbup:you make it look fun,but then i remember what it feels like to me moving that stuff from down there to up there:no:


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

we install 18" "half pass" on all the rake edges and 6' at the facia. As a professional roofer I understand the importance of underlayment and the mechanics of wind driven rain, cappilary action etc.. any roofs installed with no underlayment were always installed by hacks who most likley got paid by the square rather than the hour. I would never advocate cutting corners when it comes to roofing.
RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## bluebird5 (Dec 13, 2010)

what about profesional hacks?


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

there are a lot of those out there.


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## Mr Latone (Jan 8, 2011)

RooferJim said:


> we install 18" "half pass" on all the rake edges and 6' at the facia. As a professional roofer I understand the importance of underlayment and the mechanics of wind driven rain, cappilary action etc.. any roofs installed with no underlayment were always installed by hacks who most likley got paid by the square rather than the hour. I would never advocate cutting corners when it comes to roofing.
> RooferJim
> www.jbennetteroofing.com


Jim,

My business has stripped more roofs than I could possibly remember. Well over 10 thousand squares of tear off.

Rake edges have never once in all of those tear offs shown me any signs of infiltration.

If someone chooses to install it along the rakes, I would not put them down for doing so. However, if during a sales call a homeowner told me that my competition said they were doing it, I would have no problem holding my ground and describing my personal experience and that in my professional opinion it was not money well spent.

If someone with similar experience in roof removal told me they had seen rake edge deterioration or even water stained substrate, to which they attributed wind driven rain, I would accept that. I suppose one would have to look at regional weather characteristics to determine whether the cost was justified.

I only go to this length in my post because you went from "half pass" to "no underlayment" to "cutting corners" to "hack" without missing a beat. 


Underlayment has a purpose, certainly.


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## TheRoofingTech (Mar 12, 2009)

Up the rake No. Eves and valleys Yes.


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## Coolrestoration (Feb 11, 2011)

Ice and water up the rake is a good practice.however grace is expensive and unless it exposed and a high wind area it is totally unneeded


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## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

I have also personally stripped many a roof. and yes we have seen stained and even rotted sheathing at the rakes. many of our jobs are right on the ocean though.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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