# Just Bought Sawstop job site saw



## Charlesaf3 (Mar 26, 2015)

Not sure if this has been posted here, but I just got the sawstop job site, i.e. their bench top.

Initial impressions are great. I have a bigger sawstop in the shop, which has just been an excellent saw for me, so I've got high expectations on the quality. That said, I was using a 15 year old Dewalt 744, and I'd say it's moderately better, nothing earth shattering. 

The stand is much better, basically a knockoff of the bosch to my mind. Stand and saw together weigh 100 pounds. I'm getting old, and my urge to lift awkward saws into the truck at the end of the day is going down, so I replaced the bolts to the stand with 5/16 bolts and spin on knobs - makes it easy to separate it at the end of the day.

I don't want to get into the usual sawstop arguments here, but for me its no brainer insurance, wouldn't have replaced the dewalt otherwise. I've met too many professionals without fingers. And most of the time I'm good, but sometimes I space out and do stupid sh*t. I don't want to count on being lucky.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Collecting opinions: Why do you think the major brands had no interest in this invention?


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Should have bought the bosch. Overall it looks like a way better machine.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

GettingBy said:


> Collecting opinions: Why do you think the major brands had no interest in this invention?



Because they would have to pay a royalty to Gass. They were also probably looking at a competitive market, and didn't think they could move enough units at the higher price to warrant the investment.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

I'm also thinking that the big saw makers don't want safety devices because it makes the buyers think that these things are dangerous. Same with auto makers.
And their products *are* dangerous. :thumbsup:

I ran my hand through a saw where I had removed the guard to make certain cuts, my hand cost $50K to fix and it sort of works (I'm 3% crippled), so this device seems like a deal in hindsight.

BTW, I can do numbers and likelihoods as well as the next guy, so I have to wonder if I fell victim to this
"Discounted utility. . .or the valuing of future enjoyment less than present enjoyment."

Before my accident I enjoyed the use of my left hand, and my enjoyment of that hand in the future was not worth much to me, certainly not $5K.

Idk. I probably thought I was immortal, but the obits are telling me otherwise.


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## tccoggs (Dec 17, 2008)

My thought was also potential liability if the device were to malfunction and a user was to still get hurt using a sawstop like technology.


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

From my limited knowledge of the Saw Stop once the crtridges go off it's like $80 to replace one and they can't cut any wood with a high moisture content.how would that be beneficial to a jobsite saw.Wondering what the MC would be.I know guys that have set them off trying to cut PT lumber so ther's i's $80.
I'm saying I have limited knowledge and need a few things explained to me about these saws?
Been using everything imaginable for 43 years and still have all my fingers and toes.
I can understand how it would be helpful for these younger guys these days and maybe insurance.Just train them or keep them away from the saw.
\
Could also be like a rubber,A false since of security?


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

We have one. My boss told me the brakes are free if you write the company a testimonial. There is a bypass if you need to run wet lumber. We once had a cabinet maker set it off when his hand slipped, the brake did it's job.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

mako1 said:


> From my limited knowledge of the Saw Stop once the crtridges go off it's like $80 to replace one and they can't cut any wood with a high moisture content.how would that be beneficial to a jobsite saw.Wondering what the MC would be.I know guys that have set them off trying to cut PT lumber so ther's i's $80.
> I'm saying I have limited knowledge and need a few things explained to me about these saws?
> Been using everything imaginable for 43 years and still have all my fingers and toes.
> I can understand how it would be helpful for these younger guys these days and maybe insurance.Just train them or keep them away from the saw.
> ...



Don't forget the cost of the blade to . The boschs new saw reaxx you save the blade .


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

I was not trying to be sarcastic.I actually want to get informed about this new thing.
I have been doing this for 43 years ,owned a cabinet shop for 14 ,have had all kinds of machinery in these years and don't undertsnad the point of the Saw Stop.I have sthe videos.So I go to the table saw and get my finger in the blade which stops before I get a nick.That's great modern technology.
So then I go over to the shaper with a huge cutter spinning at 3500 rpm's and eats my whole hand up.
Would have not being taught shop safety and proper use of the tools been a better lesson?


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Thanks for posting the review. I used a 5hp sawstop for about a year and a half. Great saw. Hope the portable saw works well for you.


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## 20 and Out (Apr 11, 2010)

Saw Stop is awesome. I was clearing a drop and my thumb hit the blade. I got a knick on my thumb that wasn't deep enough to bleed. Great saw


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

mako1 said:


> I was not trying to be sarcastic.I actually want to get informed about this new thing.
> I have been doing this for 43 years ,owned a cabinet shop for 14 ,have had all kinds of machinery in these years and don't undertsnad the point of the Saw Stop.I have sthe videos.So I go to the table saw and get my finger in the blade which stops before I get a nick.That's great modern technology.
> So then I go over to the shaper with a huge cutter spinning at 3500 rpm's and eats my whole hand up.
> Would have not being taught shop safety and proper use of the tools been a better lesson?


While I don't condone their business practices, I can certainly see the value in the saw. Many people drove cars prior to seat belts, air bags, anti lock brakes, etc, without suffering any serious injuries. That doesn't mean there is not a good reason to have these and other safety features. Anyone can suffer a table saw injury. Most of the best carpenters that I know have some story to tell about an encounter. No matter how safe your practices are, we are all susceptible to injury from a wide range of power tools.


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

This is all great to hear you did not incure any injuries greater than you did.Do you use a circular saw daily?A shaper maybe?A router maybe?What happens if you them in a bad manner and incure an injuiry?

Safety and education is the best answer ?It has worked for many years.A Saw Stop has works for a few one tool. I REST MY POINT?


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

mako1 said:


> This is all great to hear you did not incure any injuries greater than you did.Do you use a circular saw daily?A shaper maybe?A router maybe?What happens if you them in a bad manner and incure an injuiry?
> 
> Safety and education is the best answer ?It has worked for many years.A Saw Stop has works for a few one tool. I REST MY POINT?


And circular saws have guards, and sometimes a brake. A shaper has a guard, as do a lot of other tools. No tool is completely safe, but having new features that helps make them safer is always appreciated. Even the saw stop is not completely safe. 

I agree that safety and education is the best answer, but why would you be resistant to new technologies that are proven to prevent injuries?


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm not going to reply to this other then to agree with Warren to a point.
Education and safety is the best point if you are npt using your own tools.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

I got curious.

"The number of finger or hand amputations in the US has more recently been estimated to be 4000 annually,[8] costing more than $2 billion a year to treat victims.[1][9]"

so 500K per. That sounds high but if it's right I got off cheap!

With 203,000 woodworkers in the US you've got a 2% chance per year of needing the Sawstop. After 35 years of woodcutting you have a 50-50 chance of collecting your body parts and then visiting the ER.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I've only come close with a planer and a biscuit jointer of all things.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

In 30 years, I've cut myself on a tablesaw from underneath. I reached down to shuffle the sawdust in the catch box and my thumb hit the moving blade. It ripped my nail clean off and caused me to dirty my shorts, outside of that I didn't even need to go to the doctors. I've put a 16p nail through my arm and it protruded out the other side. I've cut myself twice on the wormdrive, barely kerfed some fingers. It's tough to get out of this business unscathed.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Holding a small piece in place and shooting it with a finish nail, it's just a matter of time before one curls the wrong way. I've done that a few times. 

TS saw safety is pretty basic and pretty reliable. I've had plenty of kickbacks, no injuries. I've thrown a big rip through a door, though.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

If i get employees ill want a sawstop to avoid a workers compensation claim. I use a stick or clamp to hold small trim pieces.


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## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

The SawStop Cabinet saws look nice and safety is important. Money can be replaced, fingers not so much. If I was starting up or still running a crew in the shop I'd be considering buying one. Hopefully the Bosch concept will appear on some cabinet saws (if it hasn't already).


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

If I had employees working with my saw, I'd consider it.

I;d be concerned that people would develop bad habits with a sawstop setup, since they know they can get away with it. Then they use a regular saw.

In the days before chain brakes on chain saws, it was pretty easy to impress someone on the importance of being safe first, foremost, and always. Now even pros get sloppy, counting on the chain brake to save them. Usually it does, but not always.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> In 30 years, I've cut myself on a tablesaw from underneath. I reached down to shuffle the sawdust in the catch box and my thumb hit the moving blade. It ripped my nail clean off and caused me to dirty my shorts, outside of that I didn't even need to go to the doctors. I've put a 16p nail through my arm and it protruded out the other side. I've cut myself twice on the wormdrive, barely kerfed some fingers. It's tough to get out of this business unscathed.


So my wife had to stop reading her book and ask "Why are you laughing so hard?" Thanks Cali, I am still laughing


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

hdavis said:


> If I had employees working with my saw, I'd consider it.
> 
> I;d be concerned that people would develop bad habits with a sawstop setup, since they know they can get away with it. Then they use a regular saw.
> 
> In the days before chain brakes on chain saws, it was pretty easy to impress someone on the importance of being safe first, foremost, and always. Now even pros get sloppy, counting on the chain brake to save them. Usually it does, but not always.


True that! I witnessed the aftermath of a guy running a chain saw and finding a chain link fence in the brush that caught the tip. Shot back and got him in the right jugular, he didn't take another step. Chain brake did not help at all. That was a messy site let me tell you.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

hdavis said:


> If I had employees working with my saw, I'd consider it.
> 
> I;d be concerned that people would develop bad habits with a sawstop setup, since they know they can get away with it.


I can see why that would be a concern. I've been using a saw stop for several years now. I still use push sticks and never free hand on it. I think it comes down to respect of the machine. I still treat it like it could grievously injure me. I couldn't see using any table saw without a healthy fear of it. 

Having said that though at our local technical institute where I take my apprenticeship training they use saw stops. There was at least one person each year that set them off. Last year some idiot decided to line up the fence against the blade using his tape while the blade was still winding down from a cut. The brake engaged and he didn't get hurt but he clearly didn't respect the equipment.


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## Charlesaf3 (Mar 26, 2015)

BCConstruction said:


> Should have bought the bosch. Overall it looks like a way better machine.


I disagree, from looking at it. I've owned a sawstop for 5 odd years, and aside from it's protection it's the best saw I've used. And I have faith in the technology, I'm not going to have as much in bosch until its been out for a while.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Youngin';2774377
Having said that though at our local technical institute where I take my apprenticeship training they use saw stops. There was at least one person each year that set them off. Last year some idiot decided to line up the fence against the blade using his tape while the blade was still winding down from a cut. The brake engaged and he didn't get hurt but he clearly didn't respect the equipment.[/QUOTE said:


> I was taught to do things *exactly* the way I was shown. Make sure you have good footing so you don't slip, position yourself just so, etc. I thought about it more after I posted, and decided people can still be trained to do it the right way, and a sawstop would prevent a problem if someone messed up. You still get people who know better doing something dangerous with a regular saw, so I don't think that would change.


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## Charlesaf3 (Mar 26, 2015)

Sawstop doesn't help me avoid falls off ladders either. I do use a standoff. 

It's a tool. It takes away one of the most common job site injuries I'm personally familiar with. Given the number of tools I have, why wouldn't I get it? I don't get the "it doesn't solve every problem on the job, so why bother". If you want to pick on a useless tool, try rotozip, now that was a pure waste of my money.

And I've never met a beginner missing fingers, only experienced carpenters. After 15 years I still have all my fingers, I'd like to say the same 15 years from now. And if I waste a cartridge and a blade to save a finger, I promise you I will feel nothing but happy.


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## Charlesaf3 (Mar 26, 2015)

oh, and I should add, I always tell people to act as if the finger protection isn't there. I remind them that it's a computer, and its a last resort. i.e. it's an airbag, not your brakes. 

On a related note, Harbor Fright actually makes great push sticks.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

I am going to get the Bosch soon, just pisses me off that my current Bosch that is nearly identical except for the safety mechanism and mine is only a year old. Great saw though.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

mako1 said:


> a circular saw
> A shaper
> A router


The same principle can be used with these and the cost will almost certainly drop over time. 
The first GFCIs were bulky and costly.

Yes, there may be a Moral Hazard with Sawstop, airbags, guards, insurance policies, seat belts, etc.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Charlesaf3 said:


> And I've never met a beginner missing fingers, only experienced carpenters.


The only study I read the abstract on says it's young pros and older amateurs that have the highest rate of hand injuries from TS. Also, schools have high injury rates.

$80 to save some fingers is cheap.


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## Charlesaf3 (Mar 26, 2015)

hmm. Don't know of age when it happened of the guys I know, but locally have heard of lots of older guys, who I assume to be pros, but I might be wrong.

I know one finish carpenter who occasionally works for me is overly relying on luck to my mind. But try teaching new tricks to a 60 year old finish carpenter.

as of now, everyone on my job site uses my saw. One less thing to worry about.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

GettingBy said:


> The same principle can be used with these and the cost will almost certainly drop over time.


It''l be interesting to see how they swing a circ saw blade out of the way.:whistling


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## LI-Remodeler (Feb 3, 2015)

GettingBy said:


> I got curious.
> 
> "The number of finger or hand amputations in the US has more recently been estimated to be 4000 annually,[8] costing more than $2 billion a year to treat victims.[1][9]"
> 
> ...



If there's anything I learned in my statistics class it would be don't believe statistics. I'll prove anything if I take enough samples and skew them to my biases. 

Those numbers need to be broken down to exactly how those accidents happened.


When you find that most accidents happened because the user did something stupid (and probably thought it was stupid when doing it) Most will say after an accident "yeah, I knew it was stupid but...."

Not practicing basic table saw safety rules, e.g. using GOOD push sticks, (not the splinter of cedar shake you found on the ground) keeping hands a minimum distance from blade, standing comfortable at the saw and maintaining control and proper balance, etc.. will result in the overwhelming majority of table saw accidents. 

These new "safer" saws are fantastic, but that doesn't mean you can drink and look at girls when using a table saw.

and don't forget about kick back. These saws tend to give a false sense of security and people forget the serious dangers of kick back.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

Any problems cutting wet lumber and setting it off?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

cedarboarder said:


> Any problems cutting wet lumber and setting it off?


Yes. You may be able to get around it by wearing rubber gloves, but who knows?


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

cedarboarder said:


> Any problems cutting wet lumber and setting it off?


It has a bypass mode. You turn a key while pulling the on switch and the safety is disabled.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Youngin' said:


> It has a bypass mode. You turn a key while pulling the on switch and the safety is disabled.


Yes, but then it's just a regular saw....


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

I imagine if Mr Gass jag his way, the technology would be mandated all the way to benchtop drill presses. Much less shapers.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

This is really set up for class action lawsuits. We'll see how that goes. In the mean time, I doubt his solution is the only practical one, at least for TSs. I don't see it being put into circ saws, though - it'd have to be done differently. I also think an alternative could be developed to work with wet wood.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Yes, but then it's just a regular saw....


If I were expecting to work with wet lumber on a regular basis I wouldn't bother buying one. Wouldn't suit the application very well. I use ours for finishing materials and its set up on site for weeks at a time. We have a much less bulky rigid for any rough carpentry. The few times we need a table saw in a framing it's easier to set that up.

It's not my money that bought it though, if I were buy a table saw for myself it wouldn't be a saw stop. Too pricy for my situation.


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## calmod (Aug 16, 2011)

*table saw safety*

I spent 13 years working in a stair building mill shop and I've seen some really talented wood workers have gnarly table saw accidents. I've run every type of crazy shaper situation and have done a lot of things that should have bitten me hard. That said most people including most site carpenters have no training on how to properly use a table saw. I don't have a saw stop but I think they're great for what they are. With a proper outfeed table and room to move and an assortment of task specific push blocks conventional saws can be very safe. When i'm on site I don't have all that set up. I use my track saw way more than a table saw now because it's safer. From what I've seen on job sites saw stops would help a lot. I've seen a guy drop his forearm onto the blade on a job where I was a subcontractor. It was a sight I will never forget


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

I've heard a couple lawsuits are in the work because the saw didn't stop but must be rare. Also hard to prove if you can disable the safty.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

calmod said:


> When i'm on site I don't have all that set up. I use my track saw way more than a table saw now because it's safer.


Easier to move around, and takes less room for the same rip.:thumbsup:


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## calmod (Aug 16, 2011)

*carrying the saw*

i have an older dewalt portable now and am tempted to buy one of the new smaller ones either a Bosch or Dewalt but I hardly use it. I would probably use it more if I had a smaller model. For real material cutting I take it to a true shop saw and cut away. I've been checking out that little Bosch though.


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## thezoo (Sep 13, 2008)

Never throw caution to the wind.

I drive like all other drivers are incompetent idiots doing anything but the task of driving.

I think of electricity as a defibrillator for titans which if it touched me i would be vaporized by it.

I treat power tools as if they were designed to mindlessly destroy everything in thier path.

Treat law enforcement officers as if they intend to send me to a Cuban based facility.

A little respectful mindfulness of the task you are doing goes a long way.

A power saw is designed to cut steel and ipe, my skin is cut by paper. I never forget my place.

And i have shot myself with a finish nailer on more than 1 occasion, now i am mindful of where fastener is in relation to my hands, lol. Just because i want it to go does not make is factual, lol.


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## madmax718 (Dec 7, 2012)

table saws and chain saws scare me the most. Doesn't mean I'll stop using it, but push sticks and a good site layout are key to safety. Using a table saw on uneven ground, not having enough space to work, and bad lighting all are unsafe.


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## sy85 (Aug 14, 2011)

thezoo said:


> Never throw caution to the wind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with pretty much everything on here, and it's exactly how I act and treat others/tools. I've not been bitten by a curled nail but I HAVE seen wicked curls and I know how hard they are at times to pull out of wood- thinking about that sticking me in a bad curl gives me the creeps. The only thing I need to be better about is starting 2.5-3" screws with my impact in stuff. Sometimes the but jumps, I slam the bit into the work surface. Only once been caught but it still happens. It is DEFINITELY about respect and paying attention to the task at hand. When I'm driving, 95% of the time I'm asking people to repeat what they said to me over and over because I'm paying more attention to the road, where I'm going, and other drivers more than people with me. Same with tools.


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## Jaxyaks (Nov 7, 2014)

They work well, yep they are safe, cut wet lumber and it's gonna cost ya a 75-80 cartridge and a blade as well. Sometimes you don't know what is too wet. You have to use the silly bypass procedure each time you stop the blade for each cut. Recently it has been a success at saving wet lumbers life a couple of times to the tune of a few hundred dollars, and it saved a tapes life one time....


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm curious how that violent stopping of the blade affects stuff like bearings and guide bushings. Is there a limit to how many activations a saw can handle before parts gave to be replaced?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Jaxyaks said:


> They work well, yep they are safe, cut wet lumber and it's gonna cost ya a 75-80 cartridge and a blade as well. Sometimes you don't know what is too wet. You have to use the silly bypass procedure each time you stop the blade for each cut. Recently it has been a success at saving wet lumbers life a couple of times to the tune of a few hundred dollars, and it saved a tapes life one time....


I hope it saved a 30 dollar fat max tape and not some cheap pos.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Jaxyaks said:


> They work well, yep they are safe, cut wet lumber and it's gonna cost ya a 75-80 cartridge and a blade as well. Sometimes you don't know what is too wet. You have to use the silly bypass procedure each time you stop the blade for each cut. Recently it has been a success at saving wet lumbers life a couple of times to the tune of a few hundred dollars, and it saved a tapes life one time....



Sounds like you should be mad at yourself. Not the saw. The tool is doing exactly what it's designed to do.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Spencer said:


> Sounds like you should be mad at yourself. Not the saw. The tool is doing exactly what it's designed to do.


It's designed to not cut skin...the wet lumber and tape measures is more of an inconvenience.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> It's designed to not cut skin...the wet lumber and tape measures is more of an inconvenience.



It's designed to detect inconsistencies in the electrical current passing through the blade. It's assumed that the user will use the tool understanding how it works. 

That's like saying a recip saw is only supposed to cut wood and getting mad at the tool when you cut through wires and water lines.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Spencer said:


> It's designed to detect inconsistencies in the electrical current passing through the blade. It's assumed that the user will use the tool understanding how it works.
> 
> That's like saying a recip saw is only supposed to cut wood and getting mad at the tool when you cut through wires and water lines.


No it's more like if the recip saw had an 80 dollar module that would get set off upon detection of electrical inconsistencies.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> No it's more like if the recip saw had an 80 dollar module that would get set off upon detection of electrical inconsistencies.


A couple good quality push blocks, like the micro jig grrr-ripper, will keep a persons hands and fingers safe and secure for about 60 bucks each.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> A couple good quality push blocks, like the micro jig grrr-ripper, will keep a persons hands and fingers safe and secure for about 60 bucks each.



I was looking at them the other day. They look pretty cool.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> I was looking at them the other day. They look pretty cool.


I have the 3D pushblock for my TS and two of the push pads for my jointer/shaper/BS, etc.

They are fantastic, give you great control and they are made in the US.


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## Jaxyaks (Nov 7, 2014)

Spencer said:


> Sounds like you should be mad at yourself. Not the saw. The tool is doing exactly what it's designed to do.


I didn't say I was mad at the saw, just pointing out that you have to consider extra cartridges and blades when it happens. If you don't want to lose time I would have the cartridges and blades on hand... Also consider how close your cartridge supplier is as well because Murphy will rear his head when your on a tight deadline.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Jaxyaks said:


> I didn't say I was mad at the saw, just pointing out that you have to consider extra cartridges and blades when it happens. If you don't want to lose time I would have the cartridges and blades on hand... Also consider how close your cartridge supplier is as well because Murphy will rear his head when your on a tight deadline.


You have one?


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## Jaxyaks (Nov 7, 2014)

Yes we have one, it's a nice saw. It has created a couple of time lost moments with wet lumber so we now keep a spare cartridge and blade. The last time she went off we had some rough cut beams that had been airing out a couple of months and one of them was still a little damp...


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I made sure I had an extra cartridge and blades ready from day one. They even have than nice little spot to store the extra cartridge on the saw.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Jaxyaks said:


> Yes we have one, it's a nice saw. It has created a couple of time lost moments with wet lumber so we now keep a spare cartridge and blade. The last time she went off we had some rough cut beams that had been airing out a couple of months and one of them was still a little damp...


Looking back would you not buy another?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Jaxyaks said:


> Yes we have one, it's a nice saw. It has created a couple of time lost moments with wet lumber so we now keep a spare cartridge and blade. The last time she went off we had some rough cut beams that had been airing out a couple of months and one of them was still a little damp...


I'm sure the lumber was grateful for the safety feature and you were happy to pay all that extra money for nothing.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> A couple good quality push blocks, like the micro jig grrr-ripper, will keep a persons hands and fingers safe and secure for about 60 bucks each.



Push blocks!? What do you think fingers are for. 
A friend of mine who is an amazing woodworker lost his first three fingers on his left hand to the first joint in a shaper accident years ago. I've been working with him and last week I said to him can I get a hand while we were doing something. He said "I only have one". I was like, oh yeah. You wouldn't know he's missing fingers. Hes very capable.


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## Jaxyaks (Nov 7, 2014)

Inner10 said:


> Looking back would you not buy another?


If I was the only one using it, probably not. But it's a little extra insurance for crew use


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Jaxyaks said:


> If I was the only one using it, probably not. But it's a little extra insurance for crew use


I went and picked up my sawstop after work a couple weeks ago. On the way there I had my summer helper with me. I asked him how much money he would pay to keep a finger?

He thought about it for a few seconds and responded, "Definitely at least $20,000." I had to agree that I would pay at least that much to keep a finger, probably a lot more, my livelihood depends on them after all.

$20k will buy a lot of blades and cartridges.

It gives me a sense of pride knowing that when the time comes for full time employees who will use the table saw, I will have went the extra mile in protecting them...not to mention the fact that the saw stop jobsite saw is currently the best jobsite saw on the market IMO.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Anyone have the Bosch yet?


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Morning Wood said:


> Anyone have the Bosch yet?


I don't think it's out yet, I could be wrong, but I have been looking for it and have not seen it at my local tool shop.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Spencer said:


> I went and picked up my sawstop after work a couple weeks ago. On the way there I had my summer helper with me. I asked him how much money he would pay to keep a finger?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That would be the CMS TS-75 best job site saw on market. 

Light weight
Compact 
Built in stand 
Saw removable for other tasks
Out feed support 
Awesome dust extraction 
Can be converted to a router, jigsaw,sanding table in seconds 

Only problem is it's not available here.


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## trussme (Jan 18, 2013)

Bosch isn't out yet. May be three months away yet. The Bosch seems like its much cheaper to reset if the safety feature is activated. (But........lets hope it never has to)

$50 per event
Saw Stop, you need a new arm and blade per event. $?


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

trussme said:


> Bosch isn't out yet. May be three months away yet. The Bosch seems like its much cheaper to reset if the safety feature is activated. (But........lets hope it never has to)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess time will tell but I really don't see myself setting it off which makes the cartridge and blade cost a non issue. It's more about the the features of the saw for me. Plus I think it makes sense that sawstop would have the technology dialed in better being that they have been at it longer.


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## sy85 (Aug 14, 2011)

BCConstruction said:


> I'm curious how that violent stopping of the blade affects stuff like bearings and guide bushings. Is there a limit to how many activations a saw can handle before parts gave to be replaced?



Sooo just to refresh this- does anyone know how the emergency stops affect the rest of the machine? I know how the cartridges come spring loaded but as BC brought up- how does it affect everything else, from the emergency stopping putting potential strain on the running motor, bearings, the gears that raise and lower the blade etc? I'm sure they've thought of it and probably built in stuff similar to clutches and overloads to protect the stuff but still. It's a lot of forces- esp on a jobsite saw compared to their cast iron cabinet saws. 

I love the concept of the sawstop especially the ease to raise/drop the blade but my biggest concern would be wet wood. I mean- it's damn near impossible to find perfectly dry wood (assuming you use it for stuff other than plywood) for decent prices. I don't have others to worry about, but after seeing and knowing some gruesome accidents, it's enough to know that no matter how careful I am, stupid s%^# still happens at times and like I learned back in scouts- be prepared and (what I've learned from Vegas...) don't gamble if you can't afford it. Well. I can't afford my limb repairs and I want to be prepared for when I do stupid stuff.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

sy85 said:


> Sooo just to refresh this- does anyone know how the emergency stops affect the rest of the machine? I know how the cartridges come spring loaded but as BC brought up- how does it affect everything else, from the emergency stopping putting potential strain on the running motor, bearings, the gears that raise and lower the blade etc? I'm sure they've thought of it and probably built in stuff similar to clutches and overloads to protect the stuff but still. It's a lot of forces- esp on a jobsite saw compared to their cast iron cabinet saws.
> 
> I love the concept of the sawstop especially the ease to raise/drop the blade but my biggest concern would be wet wood. I mean- it's damn near impossible to find perfectly dry wood (assuming you use it for stuff other than plywood) for decent prices. I don't have others to worry about, but after seeing and knowing some gruesome accidents, it's enough to know that no matter how careful I am, stupid s%^# still happens at times and like I learned back in scouts- be prepared and (what I've learned from Vegas...) don't gamble if you can't afford it. Well. I can't afford my limb repairs and I want to be prepared for when I do stupid stuff.


The nice thing about it is that you can run the saw in bypass mode and as you are ripping a wet piece of lumber you can look down and see whether the saw would have triggered or not. If it would have a red light flashes.

I used one for almost two years. I ripped a ton of treated wood on it. I would always run the saw in bypass mode for treated but I don't remember seeing the red light often or even at all. The one time I did trigger the saw on accident was cutting a piece of wet osb that has been in the weather for quite a while.


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## trussme (Jan 18, 2013)

I thought the saws (SawStop & Bosch) picked up an electrical field or charge from your body. If you pushed a wet piece of wood through the saw using a wooden or plastic push stick...would it still trigger?


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## sy85 (Aug 14, 2011)

trussme said:


> I thought the saws (SawStop & Bosch) picked up an electrical field or charge from your body. If you pushed a wet piece of wood through the saw using a wooden or plastic push stick...would it still trigger?



I can't speak for Bosch but the sawstop runs a current through its blade and thus, if it cuts something that is conductive, ie- carries a charge willingly- ie anything wet or made up of water (like the human body and wet wood and I guess tape measures), then it registers the loss of current or current change and that's what triggers the stop.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I can't say what affect it has on the rest of the saw. In the 4 years we've had the saw its only tripped once and it seems to still be running fine. At this point, anything that needs replacement will be regular wear and tear.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

This sounds silly, but I still can not believe how fast the saw sees the conductive material and activates instantaneously. I mean seriously, it does it so fast there is barely a nick on your skin! I watched sawstop rep doing a demo on contractor days at out local tool supplier. I was across the building and it was loud as hell, made everyone jump who was not around the saw, he did a few more demos that I watched....still kind of amazes me. 

It also made me think, what if the saw was destroyed after activating, I know this is not the case but would saving a appendage be worth the saws price alone? Makes you think. The more and more I read responses to this thread, the more I think I will own the sawstop or Bosch yet this summer. I would hate to see one of my workers hurt, money is money, but a worker injured, no thanks. Plus my kids are getting older and help more and more....it's time I think.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Push blocks, my hands get no where near the blade.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I use push blocks with the saw stop. It's a force of habit. A healthy fear of a table saw, regardless of it's safety features is not something I want to stop having.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't fear a machine, i respect what it can do.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I don't fear a machine, i respect what it can do.


Samething. Fearing the power of is respect. It's called a healthy fear. Fear isn't always weakness.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I just don't agree with that. Fearing a TS is different then respecting what it can do. You need confidence in yourself, not fear. I run a saw with a 7.5hp direct drive motor and a 18" blade.

Anyway, get some high quality push blocks, much cheaper, better control and cheaper.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I think you're reading into it too much. My definition of healthy fear in regards to power tools is similar to what you call respect of it.

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using Tapatalk


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I just don't agree with that. Fearing a TS is different then respecting what it can do. You need confidence in yourself, not fear. I run a saw with a 7.5hp direct drive motor and a 18" blade.
> 
> Anyway, get some high quality push blocks, much cheaper, better control and cheaper.


You can't disagree with a definition. It is what it is.

Fear (v) 3. to have a reverential awe of

Fearing what a table saw can do is the same as respecting what it can do. I fear losing my fingers so I don't get them near the blade. 

Fear doesn't just mean to be afraid.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> You can't disagree with a definition. It is what it is.
> 
> Fear (v) 3. to have a reverential awe of
> 
> ...


Come on Rob, real men can't use words like fear. One word, Ego! :laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Spence I was in woodcraft today and took a decent look at the sawstop. Only had a quick glance at it before. It is pretty nice. 

Some things I liked
The way the stand was designed to slide into a truck bed
The way stand folds out
The blade lift speed
The bevel trim 
The onboard storage box

Overall it's a pretty nice saw up close.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I really like the lever for the fence as well as the other goodies. It did seem a little on the heavy side. But I think the way it can be lifted in the bed of the truck makes it a wash.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

BCConstruction said:


> Spence I was in woodcraft today and took a decent look at the sawstop. Only had a quick glance at it before. It is pretty nice.
> 
> Some things I liked
> The way the stand was designed to slide into a truck bed
> ...


I've been putting its through its paces. Haven't found any reason to complain about it yet. 

It takes some getting used to on the fence when you are used to a dewalt. The dewalt is a little easier to micro adjust with the knob but definitely not a deal breaker.

The fact that the blade raises or lowers in one turn is one of my favorite features for sure.


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## trussme (Jan 18, 2013)

I don't think Bosch will be able to keep up to the demand when the Reaxx arrives. Just my 02


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

*Just Bought Sawstop Job Site Saw*



Spencer said:


> I've been putting its through its paces. Haven't found any reason to complain about it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah the fence was one of the things I didn't like too much. The festool has a dial for small increments which I use quite a lot. It's way to big to use in my setup but if I needed a bigger contractor saw that sawstop would be it. I must gave lifted that blade up and down about 30x. Weird that no one has done that before on a saw.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't trust any fence measurements. I still find myself using a tape. But that's just me.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't trust any fence measurements. I still find myself using a tape. But that's just me.


I only use the fence measurement if I don't need it exact. Otherwise I still use a tape.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> I don't trust any fence measurements. I still find myself using a tape. But that's just me.


I am with you, I never use the fence measurement, I always use a tape.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

*Just Bought Sawstop Job Site Saw*

What are you guys, cabinet makers? :laughing:

I sometimes check mine with a tape to confirm, but my Dewalt is dead on to at least the 64th of an inch. No need for a tape measure.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> What are you guys, cabinet makers? :laughing:
> 
> I sometimes check mine with a tape to confirm, but my Dewalt is dead on to at least the 64th of an inch. No need for a tape measure.


I like to measure both front and back of the blade.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Californiadecks said:


> I like to measure both front and back of the blade.



The rack and pinion on the Dewalt has never let me down. I haven't adjusted it in well over a year and it's still the same.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> The rack and pinion on the Dewalt has never let me down. I haven't adjusted it in well over a year and it's still the same.


If I had a dewalt I wouldn't measure front and back either. Love the rack and pinion. But....when the old saw died, money was/is tight so I ended up with a ridgid. Like it but I don't trust the fence for detail work.


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