# Bidding Dilema



## kevin n (Aug 16, 2005)

I am a new member and I have a question.I have been doing alot of jobs for customers and been somewhat sucessful. But I have goting the inside scoop on a builder looking for a bid on a 300 home contract. I have never bidded for a new home builder before and i dont know what to qoute for trim,hanging doors,and attic stairs.I have heard that the molding is done by the total sq.ft of the home like .23 a ft.But what about the doors and stairs.Can someone give me some guidance please.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Ask the builder what type of price breakdown works best for him.


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

.23C is pretty low for a trim pak Kevin. 10 years ago I was getting 1.69 SF but that included all split jamb doors, hardware, and one standard rail.

Bob


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## kevin n (Aug 16, 2005)

Thanks for the info. I asked and he said he wants it broken down byer sq.ft. of home and extra for each door and rounded corner cuts. I know other subcontractors are giving deals to the new home builders but I have no clue where to start. I charge my own customers a 1.50 a lf. in labor.


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

Prepare to go broke or be wearing an orange apron soon....

Especially with 300 houses, there are sure to be guys quoting this work at prices that you'll never be able to make money at. They'll use illegal labor, pay guys by the piece to give them incentive to hurry, and cut every corner they can just to make a profit. They follow the old "I know I lose money, but I make it up in volume" theory.

You'll also have to figure out how you're going to trim 300 houses. Are you prepared to put on a crew of 10-15 guys to keep up with the builder's schedule (which will vary week to week)? How about tools, equipment, vans, insurance, etc? Do you have enough money in the bank to cover the 30, 45, 60 or more days that you'll be waiting to get paid? How about warranty work- got a guy set up to handle all of that for you? Do you really want to become a labor manager rather than a carpenter?

I'm not trying to scare you, but before you get concerned about "how to price the job", you've got to figure out how you'll do the job, and do it profitably. It's easy to get starry-eyed when you get the "inside track" on something this big- take a step back down to reality, take a deep breath, and look at the big picture. Otherwise, get used to saying "Liquid Nails is in aisle 7".

Best of luck,

Bob


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## kevin n (Aug 16, 2005)

Well thanks for the great info. I guess I should stick to my remodels.I just liked the idea of knowing I had steady work for a long while. I have heard that getting paid by some of these builders is like pulling teeth.


Kevin


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

kevin n said:


> I charge my own customers a 1.50 a lf. in labor.


There is no reason to charge a GC, or anybody else, less for your services. Unless you are signing a large contract with mucho work, there is no reason to ever lower your rates, especially for GC's who are basically just looking for the low price, not quality or service.


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## bergenbldr (Apr 23, 2005)

Bob Kovacs said:


> Prepare to go broke or be wearing an orange apron soon....
> 
> Especially with 300 houses, there are sure to be guys quoting this work at prices that you'll never be able to make money at. They'll use illegal labor, pay guys by the piece to give them incentive to hurry, and cut every corner they can just to make a profit. They follow the old "I know I lose money, but I make it up in volume" theory.
> 
> ...


 The thing most of these guys don't get is if your losing money on one house your going to lose money on 300 or whatever number houses.Yeah there is an economy of scale here but you need to turn that into putting more money in your pockets.


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## carpenter 1st (Sep 2, 2005)

if your business isn't a big one, (lots of good cheap labor) DON'T DO IT!!! you'll spend more time trying not to LOSE money than anything else.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

I tell you a common phrase from tract subs I hear alot. They don't pay alot but the work is steady. LOL I have to say with the insurance for tract work as high as it is I laugh in their face and say "you need some lube or it just doesn't hurt after awhile?


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## carpenter 1st (Sep 2, 2005)

with that much steady work i guess it's a good thing they don't have time to sit down.LOL


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

carpenter 1st said:


> with that much steady work i guess it's a good thing they don't have time to sit down.LOL


Yeah but at the end of the day and your only getting paid a little more than your lead I don't think its worth it. With 1-3mil insurance required by the GC's insurance. If just temporary tract work ins. with tract exclusion would be fine but over 7 homes and you need that exclusion lifted and a crew of 3 or more guys is going to cost you 20- 50 grand or more a year. Just for GL ins. 
Low end tracting just isn't worth it. 

These rates are for WA of couse.


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