# Microsoft access 2010



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Finally broke down & got a laptop...

Anyone got any pointers for this program? Seems like it has potential to link customers to jobs & jobs to customer specific "products"

Example: I bid an apartment complex interior repaint based on various floor plans. So each customer has roughly 4-8 specific "products" where the price is unique to that customer.

I would also like to link to what person worked on that individual product. This way I can click on the employees name & see a history of all jobs he ever did.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't use Access, but have certification for Filemaker 10,11,and 8.5 
YouTube is going to be your friend in this subject. 
They are pretty similar programs, with drag to set relationships. 
When it comes to relational databases the sky is the limit, you can do pretty much whatever comes to your mind. 

Quickbooks is a good example of what I am talking about.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Customers table, Products table, and a join table - name it something like Invoice_Lines table. Invoices_Lines holds foreign keys for Customers and Products. Customers and Products each have a primary key named the same as the foreign key for them that is in the Invoices_Lines table. Then go to the graph screen and drag from Customers primary key to the same name in Invoices_Lines. Then drag from Products primary key to the foreign key in Invoices_Lines named the same. That forms the basis for your relationship. You put all the Customer name, address, zip code, phone and so forth fields in Customers table, and the names for your finished 'PRODUCTS' in the products table. Do your reports based on Invoice_Lines table.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)




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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Yeah...this is going to take a while. Good point on the keys. Been reading the included help section to learn as much as i can.

Going to build a web database that will enable employees to invoice customers and track job progress. 

Gotta relearn alot of computer logic I firgot about iver the years. But I figure its definitely needed.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Driftweed said:


> Yeah...this is going to take a while. Good point on the keys. Been reading the included help section to learn as much as i can.
> 
> Going to build a web database that will enable employees to invoice customers and track job progress.
> 
> Gotta relearn alot of computer logic I firgot about iver the years. But I figure its definitely needed.


If you are going to go with a web database, I would stay away from access and go with something like mysql.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Its amazing how visual basic has lasted through the years. I can't believe we are still coding with that language.

I probably wont use acees in the end, but i figure it should be on par with other programs language wise. So before I spend any $ it will be good for relearning.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Driftweed said:


> Its amazing how visual basic has lasted through the years. I can't believe we are still coding with that language.
> 
> I probably wont use acees in the end, but i figure it should be on par with other programs language wise. So before I spend any $ it will be good for relearning.


mysql is free.


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## PatsPainting (Sep 22, 2010)

Driftweed said:


> Its amazing how visual basic has lasted through the years. I can't believe we are still coding with that language.
> 
> I probably wont use acees in the end, but i figure it should be on par with other programs language wise. So before I spend any $ it will be good for relearning.


vb.net is a pretty powerful language and not that hard to learn. Doubt it's going anywhere anytime soon. C# seems to be number one for the net framework stuff. Or at least it seems that from searching for .net samples.

visual studio express is free also.

Pat


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Driftweed said:


> Its amazing how visual basic has lasted through the years. I can't believe we are still coding with that language.
> 
> I probably wont use acees in the end, but i figure it should be on par with other programs language wise. So before I spend any $ it will be good for relearning.



Writing code in VB for access?


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

yes, macros appear to be written in vb or basic. I am only on try #12 so far...will be in the hundreds before its over.

Everytime i think I got a table laid out correct, i think up something new and start over.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't use access, rather lotus approach. No real difference. Just like Ms excel compared to lotus 123 spread sheets. I've played with access just never invested in it. Approach has been very inexpensive, however IBM is not really "supporting" it anymore.

You are using access' graphic user interface to set up macro's right?

Well anywho ....
Relational databases rock and 'hurt the brain case' all at the same time. I have Job tracking, Labor, mat costs all set up. Job tracking with work order break outs, Labor tasks and a few other twists and turns. Inventory for cabinet shop, tied into work orders and some where I have an accounting database I used for 10 years till 2006. The accountant even approved of it.

Can be a valuable tool. I find the easy/fun part is setting it up - keeping up with updating is the challenge.

Mysql has piqued my curiosity. Have it installed on my website/server. Just have not done anything with it. With the thinking that you can port data out of acess/approach to the sql table/s on the server...use that for web access. That's a new can of worms and integration with Php and  more learning than I have time for :laughing:


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

The thing I do like about access is it is easy to setup a form (graphical interface) for interaction with the DB.


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## Vix (Apr 19, 2014)

*The thing I like about using office suites . . .*

. . . is that not only can you keep track of the data, but you can use the customer base to make a mailing list. 

If you need any help with that computer logic I would not mind answering a question or 2. I do not want to violate the TOS so I won't say anything more than I can help. 

Victor Venero


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## emeraldstate (Apr 10, 2014)

lots of good comments here. Access is definitely a limited database engine. I would go with mysql also. That said, I really doubt you want to use a database like this. I think there are tools out there that do what you want that are specific to the industry. A database is a very complex approach. Kind of like saying you want to read a book and someone gives you a big box with pieces of paper with words on them. Wouldn't it be better to buy a novel instead.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Filemaker rocks. No two ways about it. But it takes learning to produce good output. Same goes for photoshop. Or Garage Band. You get back out what you put in. My experience is that construction related fields workers and owners are usually way too lazy and also pretty much cheap skates looking for free or next to free when it comes to software and frankly are not a good market to sell to.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm a computer programmer by education, and worked as a financial systems / web programmer for a bank as long as I could stand corporate america - so I'll weigh in and help you out here.

PM me and I'll build you an example database to get you started, send you some insert / update / select queries (deletes are way too simple), and give you some code to start with in the language of your choice.

I suggest MySql. It's free, and it's graphic interface is really nice and very powerful. You could also use Microsofts professional product Sql Server which I used to use a lot. There's a free version of it too. MySql is easier to find info on though.

Unlike Access, there will be no built in programming environment. Access's environment sucks anyway for many many many reasons. So you'll need to figure out your target. If you want to build desktop apps you have a few good choices. Qt which is C++, Lazarus which is a Delphi clone and uses Object Pascal.

C++ is a little bit daunting, but Qt makes it not so bad. I've cross compiled the same exact code to target Linux and Windows - and it looks like you can do the same for Android and IOS now too but I haven't tried it.

If you're going for a web app, PHP is where it's at. Getting a webserver set up with PHP on Windows is a pain, but you can download Wampserver and it'll pretty much do it all for you. Most everything I've coded in the last few years has been web apps in PHP / MySql.

Like I said, PM me and I can help you get rolling pretty quick.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

The basics are a real ***** to learn, but once they click, the rest of it starts to fall into place really quickly. If you learn the right way first, it makes it a LOT easier


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Texas Wax said:


> Writing code in VB for access?


Yes, most all user interface code in Access is in VB. Technically it's VBA since it's the built into application version rather than the standalone. product in Visual Studio but what's the difference ... Access is a data storage engine and user interface building platform all in one - although both are pretty bad particularly data access.

The data access is done via sql like any other database, but it's a strange version of sql that is totally not portable with other databases. I had to port an Access database to Microsoft Sql Server - I beat my head on it for a while. Cursed the programmers that built the crappy system, ended up getting authorized to demo and build from the ground up with Sql Server, and all new VB - technically ASP in VBS - since it's the version built into the crumby MS IIS webserver.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Driftweed - if you want the really really easy way to do what you want to do, spend $300 on Quickbooks - get the Premier Contractor edition. It'll do way more than you'll ever code yourself.

It's already got built in products, which can be assemblies made of other products and services, you can set up customers, produce estimates with the products, you can record purchases for projects, track employee time per project, run reports that show what you estimated costs to be vs what they really are ...

Basically once it's set up you can add a customer, create an estimate, track actual costs, and run reports that tell you which jobs were the most profitable very quickly without any coding. Oh, and you can see who worked on what projects too.

Unless you just want to build it - which I totally get


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Driftweed said:


> Nope still here...laptop been in the shop...should get it back tomorow.
> 
> Buncha nerds... Carry on
> 
> So then have we agreed we are going to use mysql over access? Or both?


Well if you want to have to construct continual query statements for each item you wish to know then use the SQL approach. If you want to know the same exact information in a timely fashion then use scripted buttons and fields in a format such as Access or Filemaker and let that do the work for you. I would youtube or google the products if I were you and watch a video or two to see which method is actually easier or if you are possibly getting led down a path you never intended by strangers who are impressing you with their mighty knowledge on coding and deployment for their own amusement and glory. The other good thing mentioned was Quickbooks contractor version- A great resource right off the shelf.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Driftweed said:


> Nope still here...laptop been in the shop...should get it back tomorow.
> 
> Buncha nerds... Carry on
> 
> So then have we agreed we are going to use mysql over access? Or both?


Yeah, I'm kind of a nerd, I'll take that as a compliment :whistling

You can use whatever you want. The examples I gave are from MySql, but they can be ported to Access without a whole lot of trouble.

I don't like Access because of limitations it has so I don't have it - or I would have made them in Access because it's what you've been playing with.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Well if you want to have to construct continual query statements for each item you wish to know then use the SQL approach. If you want to know the same exact information in a timely fashion then use scripted buttons and fields in a format such as Access or Filemaker and let that do the work for you. I would youtube or google the products if I were you and watch a video or two to see which method is actually easier or if you are possibly getting led down a path you never intended by strangers who are impressing you with their mighty knowledge on coding and deployment for their own amusement and glory. The other good thing mentioned was Quickbooks contractor version- A great resource right off the shelf.


I don't see any useful information coming from you buddy - except to repeat MY suggestion that Quickbooks Premier Contractor Edition would probably be easier and faster to get done what he wants done, not to mention it would be integrated into his accounting system.

Wrong path? Amusement and glory? I spent 4 years in college studying software engineering, and another 6 years doing it, but I bow to the expert certified Filemaker salesman. I wasn't aware that Quickbooks was built in Access :laughing::laughing::laughing: Since it's so awesome, why didn't Intuit build Quickbooks with Filemaker?

FYI the Windows version of Quickbooks is 10+ million lines of C++ code plus a little C# for the .NET parts. They also have their own storage engine, which is what reads and writes the company file, but there is middleware to access it like a SQL database. What there isn't, is scripted fields and buttons ...

Hows THIS for wrong path: Here's where he would hit the limit of your way RIGHT OFF THE BAT - He said he wanted guys to be able to access it from the field via a web app or something along those lines. Try THAT with Filemaker. Oh you probably could, but you'd spend a lot of time hammering that screw. I've seen web apps built with an Access database. Guess what - you've got to use SQL in the web code, and your scripted buttons and fields go right out the window because they aren't there. Same thing for mobile apps.

Oh, and as for the circle jerk comment, sorry the thread got derailed for a minute by a side conversation with Python guy - who actually had a better suggestion than yours :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Ok now that I'm done responding to possibly the most asnine comment I've ever read that wasn't an obvious troll ...

The reason you don't want to use Access or Filemaker is that those kind of tools make it easy to build a simple piece of software. It might even be useful for a while. After you get going, you're going to want it to do more and more - most of the time this happens before the software is even a finished piece, much less to the stage where it's being revised.

At this point, you'll be stuck with "you can't do that without doing some really bass ackwards hacks if you can do it at all" or "Time to rebuild the system from the ground up using appropriate tools". Do yourself a favor, and build from a solid foundation. I would HIGHLY suggest that you use Quickbooks - get the upgrade to Premier Contractor. It'll do more than you want, and I'm reasonably certain that there IS a way to have products that only apply to certain customers.

I'd bet that Intuit tech support will help you out if you've upgraded, but I'm not sure. I'll ask a quickbooks guy if you want.

But like I said - if you want to play with Access, by all means go for it. Just be aware that it does a lot of things that don't follow industry standards. What I'm showing you applies to Access as much as any other database. 

Access and it's ilk is a toy tool belt - like the little nail bags with the baby pink hammers, and itty bitty screwdrivers. If you think you're going to build a mission critical piece of software with it think again. This includes the ones built into other office suites - like LibreBase, and Filemaker, and that whole class of database software.

Personally I think if you learn how to do it that way, you're learning stuff wrong, and it makes it that much more difficult to grasp when you graduate past the pink squeaky hammer.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

The Premier editions of Quickbooks all allow you to build assemblies, which are products that are comprised of multiple other products. I've always thought this would be a good way to do some things - like roofing for example. You've got underlayment, felt caps, shingles, coil nails, and services associated like tear off x layers, steep charges, installation, and other things that are all estimated at a per square unit rate. You might not sell nails, or underlayment to the customer - but you can combine these into an assembly of something you DO sell to a customer.

Another thing you can do is custom fields. I haven't looked into it too much, but in theory you MIGHT be able to create a custom field for a product that is linked to the customer. What I'd try to do first is see if you can find out what the primary key of the customer table is, and create a custom field for products that links to the customer table on the primary key.

For web access there is middleware specifically for that, and I'd bet you could make a mobile app that used the middleware too. To do that, you'll need quickbooks set up on a server that's always on, and hooked up to the internet with a static IP address, and you'll need the multiuser stuff in Quickbooks set up too I think.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Quickbooks pro or otherwise aint free. I say this because I do not wish to piss money away for something I will not use.

Microsoft acces came with office, so I looked into it. They have a sample file called "northwind" that sparked my imagination.

So i dabbled with it & got more ideas. 

As I said, I service apartment complexes & investors doing a wide variety of things.

Example: apartment complexes i just paint & drywall. Investors I do the entire flip.

Therefore, each apartment complex is bid out by unit/floorplan. Usually around 10 items/complex.

Now, in quickbooks that would mean a redonculous amount of inventory items. Plus, if an employee needs to do an invoice well...

But by creating a database, where said employee can log in via laptop or smartphone in the field things could be more smooth.

I dont know databases very well, but I do know that if you want a program to suit your needs you HAVE to build it, because there just isnt a 1 size fits all program for everyone.

So, from the sounds of it mysql is the most flexible & widely used program available. 

Lets just use that, & toss ideas around shall we?


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Driftweed said:


> Quickbooks pro or otherwise aint free. I say this because I do not wish to piss money away for something I will not use.
> 
> Microsoft acces came with office, so I looked into it. They have a sample file called "northwind" that sparked my imagination.
> 
> ...


You don't really have to build your own software necessarily. I worked at Regions, and there was an army of programmers and techs. The mortgage system was third party software, but it was customizable, and had a scripting language built into it so we could program within the program so to speak.

Quickbooks is something like that. They know you're going to have your own needs, and the one size fits all thing doesn't work - so they provide means for you to change things. Not sure if they have a scripting language, but I'm going to look that up for sure.

Access is like that in a way - it's a program with a database built in, and a scripting language to extend it with. Access scripting is programming within a program too.

I don't have Access, but in a lot of ways it works similar to MySql and every other relational database so most of my examples apply for the most part. A little tweaking here and there to change over - at least while it's still small little pieces. It adds up to some real time when your app grows and outgrows it's foundation though.

How about I call some tech friends and see if I can get a copy of Access for "evaluation" purposes :thumbsup:


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Yes, the Northwind database has been around since I can remember. I don't remember it in the FIRST version of Access I had (around Circa 1990) even though it might have been there - but I do remember it when I took a database design class in 1998 ...

It's not what I'd call "production stable", and there's a lot of things I'd do differently, but it IS a good starting point, and I've looked back at it many times when I needed a fresh perspective.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I've been doing a little poking around the Intuit site since I don't have Access to play with yet, and I'm not so sure that there is an integrated scripting engine. I'm not sure why not, especially since there is an "enterprise" class product. I'd expect an enterprise accounting system to have it. And while you can have custom fields, you can only have five of them? Also it doesn't look like there's much of a way to really tie it to another field in another table like you do in a relational database. It could be done in script without being a "bad" thing - except you'd need integrated scripting for that.

What you CAN do is build your own app, with it's own database - and integrate Quickbooks with the sdk to use quickbooks like a database so if you ... add a sales order or customer with your app - you don't have to enter it into QB also - and vice versa - so your accountant logging into the QB can run a report and it shows the sale or customer but you don't have to touch QB to enter the data.

Not much help there - but it's late, I'm tired, and I could be missing something.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't think I ever said Quickbooks was created with Access. I believe I stated it used SQL, but if I am wrong about that I stand corrected. 

Mr SmallPierre, I salute your experience and training. I however was , like you trying to help a fellow tradesman on his way along a path to a solution, but unlike you, I didn't try to lead him to the one that requires 5 yrs of post secondary education along with ten years or whatever it was working for Oracle or the like. 

I am not a Filemaker Salesman either, but I do have years of use of it and find it to be a very full featured database system regardless of your dismissal of it. 

As to the statements of how well it works with web or on Ipads, well let me help you with that. Here is an introductory video on that very subject. You should watch before you make statements on how functional the product is. I think you have no idea. By the way, it is very easy to add tables, adjust the schema on the fly, add fields, reports, summary's, produce layouts, bring in data from other tables - inside and outside joins , run in data from tables related thru thirty other ones if you need to. Look for yourself http://www.filemaker.com/products/overview.html?video=fmpl-overview


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Oh, I forgot, there is plugins for Quickbooks.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> I don't think I ever said Quickbooks was created with Access. I believe I stated it used SQL, but if I am wrong about that I stand corrected.
> 
> Mr SmallPierre, I salute your experience and training. I however was , like you trying to help a fellow tradesman on his way along a path to a solution, but unlike you, I didn't try to lead him to the one that requires 5 yrs of post secondary education along with ten years or whatever it was working for Oracle or the like.
> 
> ...


When I said that I was unaware that Quickbooks was written with Access I was being sarcastic. It's not, and there's a reason for that. It's weaksauce.

It doesn't take years of education. I learned more about software my first few months on the job than I did in alllll the time in college. It was because I had access to top notch programmers that build real software instead of academia bound sadists. Yes I learned a lot in college, but some things you can't learn like that.

I have no idea? :laughing::laughing::laughing: I can get him up and running in ANY of these solutions in pretty much the same time frame - except that I don't own a copy of Access, or Filemaker.

I explained this before and I'll explain it again ... Web hosting companies do not have Filemaker, or Access databases in their hosting packages. Even the Microsoft hosting packages come with Sql Server, not Access. In order to use data from a smart phone or web browser, or ANY remote system you have to have your central data available via the internet. While there are a few ways to do this, most of them are a little out of the range of an average dude trying to learn how to build an app. Access can be used for that too, but it's slow when used with multiple user connections, and you essentially HAVE to maintain your own webserver to feed out the data.

And I'm not really dismissing Filemaker in and of itself. I wouldn't expect Intuit to put out a polished turd - I'm just saying that this class of database software has limits, and you hit the ceiling fast. Actually, I'd expect it to be better than Access in some ways - namely Access has a 2gb data storage limit, Filemaker doesn't.

Lets end the flame war and just help the guy out eh? He's got Access, and doesn't want to buy anything.

I'm watching the video because I want to see what kind of scripting language it supports, I want to see if it supports standardized SQL instead of the bastardized version Access used - at least as of the last time I used it ...


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Oh, I forgot, there is plugins for Quickbooks.


I would expect there is being an Intuit product. Intuit also has the SDK which allows pretty much any programming language to connect to it - including Microsoft Access via Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) that's built into Access.



Here's a video that demonstrates that. Note: Around 13:35 or so look at the code. There's a "for" loop where it's dynamically building SQL for Access to execute - the insSQL variable, where theres that INSERT INTO Customers bit in quotes?

EDIT: forgot the video lol!






As for the outer joins - mostly in the real world if your database is properly designed outer joins are RARELY used, or they are being used improperly. If I think an outer join is the thing to use, I rethink what I'm doing.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> Oh, I forgot, there is plugins for Quickbooks.


It's not an Intuit product - I was thinking of something else :whistling

The server looks like a lot of other Apple products in that they try to lock you into proprietary solutions in every way possible.

I do like that there is at least an app though. That's a step forward from Access. It looks like you can only use select queries - not inserts, updates, or any kind of ddl, and the scripting language is proprietary - so you learn it, and to move off of it you have to learn another language. It's also probably much more scalable than an Access app.

EDIT: Now that I've actually seen how the "scripting" works, it's actually just macros built pretty similar to how scheduled tasks are built in Windows. There's a lot you can do with that, but it's not going to get you the functionality of a real scripting language.

Sure, it's an ok piece - I'll give it that. Probably interoperates with it's selected group of products pretty well. Looks like a cool user interface, and the webserver version probably automagically builds a website that's hooked into the data.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

That being said ... He's got Access, doesn't want to buy stuff, and he's been playing with it.

Sure, he could install MySql and either Lazarus or Qt for the user interface also for free, but I'm not trying to push software - I want to help the guy out. If the proverbial brick wall gets hit I guess I'll end up porting yet another Access app


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Ok , I herby drop my defensiveness. Ok , so you looked at it and see what I see in it. IT'S EASY. Enough about it. My actual real love is something entirely different, and also easy to get the hang of because it uses the original hypercard language as the basis of it's IDE. It is open source and free of charge if you are not pushing an enterprise solution. Currently goes by the name LiveCode. Scottish guy buys the rights to the original Hypercard from Steve Jobs after Jobs banishes it from the Apple OS. He turned it into a multiplatform IDE that works for Windows, Linux, MAC OS, Iphone, Ipad, Android, and possibly even for I think Blackberry. Hypertalk is pretty close to Python in ease of scripting, but this also is drag and drop gui. Supports MySql, SqlLite, Oracle, Valentina, and ODBC and XML. 

So anybody reading this if you want to develop your own apps in a really easy to learn English language coding IDE , one that does not require you to memorize or utilize a ton of symbols then have a look at LiveCode. I did mention free right? Since you have to script all your routines such as printing it is not going to be anywhere near as easy as let's say .. Oh I dunno , , Filemaker, but it is FREE. Here is your link- http://LiveCode.com/


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Dang, haven't seen HyperCard since the original Mac.

Sure you don't have to know the symbols, but there are syntax rules, and they aren't any easier to remember. It does read easier for someone that doesn't know the rules though.

Looks like it fits the bill of what I've been waiting for - Win/Lin/Mac/iOS/Android cross compilation (a daunting task). Qt has been promising it for a while, and I just downloaded the latest version. Lazarus has been promising it too - but it hasn't got anywhere with that. I think you can target Win/Lin/Mac with it though.

Both Qt and Lazarus are free RAD environments (Rapid Application Development), and from what I've seen so is LiveCode.

I'm downloading that mfker right now just to check it out. I doubt I'll like the language syntax, and I'm dubious as to it's interoperability since it's not a very popular language. It's possible that it does have bindings for all kind of stuff.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

In a RAD you drag and drop things like text fields, buttons, menus, etc - then double click it in the builder, and it opens the code editor with the cursor right inside the block of code that controls it, with default event settings - for a button the event would be set to the "onClick" event. There's a nice visual tool to change things like the buttons properties, and as you're dragging and dropping stuff it looks just like it's going to look after it's compiled and run.

Microsoft Visual Studio is NOT a RAD, and the forms don't even look like they actually will on screen. It sucks big ole donkey d**k


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Here are some tips. Every object is scriptable. You don't have to declare variables if you like, but good coding practices and all..... Every object has properties, and you can use that to do some amazing things- have a graphic object for instance contain nested arrays inside its custom properties. Or large containers of text or graphics or video can be stored inside any objects custom properties. And everything you put on the cards (screen) is an object. There are no classes to deal with. I don't have any formal training , but I learned Hypertalk just by reading all thru the user manual that comes built in with the program. That was something like 25 or so years ago now, and they have put a real polish on the original Hypercard. You are right, you still have to learn the syntax, but it is pretty much just like the English language. My best way to describe it is to say it is ''event'' driven programming. And all the events are english.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I wish I had time to play with it tonight but it's late. So far it looks like a bad mfker


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

So, for fun I can do some things no real coder would ever do. 

On mouseup put ''10 inches'' into Sally. 



Sally just became a local variable that contains the text 10 inches. I didn't have to declare Sally a variable. how simpler can it get? Lots.


Put ''BILLY'' into fld ''Agness''. Now drag out a field from the tools box and drop it onto the card canvass. Click on it and an inspector turns up , where you can name the field Agness. BILLY is now inside Agness. 


I have a sick and twisted mind, at least that is what my Mom used to say........


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Visual Basic is considered event driven, and really almost any gui app regardless of language will be. The syntax looks like Visual Basic and Python got drunk one night haha!

I'm not sure how I like the no classes thing - they are extremely useful. Classes, inheritance, and pointers pretty much are indispensable. Classes aren't difficult, they just seem that way.

I'll find out more when I'm not delirious, and have time to play with it. I'm hoping it compiles executables instead of relying on distributing a runtime. That's one of my major gripes with Visual Basic, C#, and Microsoft's C++ for that matter the second you touch "managed code". Runtimes can only slow you down! It's one of my gripes with Java, but not by a long shot my biggest gripe with it.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

macmikeman said:


> On mouseup put ''10 inches'' into Sally


Thanks, now I've got to clean my drink out of the keyboard :laughing:


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

enough with the derailing ... Anybody got an extra copy of Access 2010 they'll donate to the development team? I don't want to pay $110 for it, I can't believe they even charge for it anymore - they've even got a free version of Sql Server!

30 day free trial is all I'm coming up with so far.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Ok lets get organized fellas. First we have to develope a gameplan for whatever program we use.

Ill draw pics tonite, & then we can sort out code.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Got some pics? Maybe something like what you want the screens to look like?

I've been trying to access a copy of Access to no avail ...


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Yeah hang on I'll go to my drawing board. Got overwhelmed w/work & social stuff lasy fee days lol.

Just got caught up/sobered up


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Can you read this?









Maybe faster to just pic everything


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)




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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Now when the employee selects customer, that alters the job to presets for that customer. 

Then when they click on "job" it opens a invoice where they can do add ons.

Example: bill does a 2 bedroom white for the arbors with 4 drywall patches. After job is complete, bill logs in selects customer and product. Then in the invoice he can add 4 drywall patches, click complete order. The invoice is then emailed to the client, & logged in the database.

Am i making sense?


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

It does make sense. One thing you might want to consider, is logins for the employees. The cornerstone of almost every system I've seen is security - by this I mean internal security. You don't want everybody to have access to everything. You don't want everyone to have access to modify pricing for example.

As a side benefit, when an installer employee logs in, things like the jobs pulldown will automatically be filtered to only have jobs for that employee.

But yes, that makes sense.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Thought I forgot about it didn't you? I've been duking it out with this guy and a stupid roof - haven't had a lot of good programming time - but I did come up with a couple of things.

I still don't have access - my buddy couldn't get me a copy, but I do have MySQL and Lazarus. It's been a while since I've done a desktop app, so I had to knock some dust off my mad skilz 

There's good bad and ugly to that.

Pascal is a strongly typed language like C/C++, so you have to specify data types. If you want to display an integer or float (numbers you can do math with), you have to typecast it as a string (character representation). This sucks in some ways, but there are reasons it's good.

It's much more structured than C/C++, so it's really a better language to learn with since it forces you into better habits 

It's compiled code - runs without a runtime, or interpreter - so the code is light and fast. Pointers are supported - but you have to free any memory that you allocate - or your code will leak memory. It's easy though - if you open a database connection you close it when you're done.

I went through the quickie slapped together database to figure out what direction it needs to go, and found a few things that need to be addressed. I'll be getting to that soon.

I wrote a quickie little app to connect to that database, and populate the dropdowns like you want - but until the data structure is there to code against, it's futile going further. I'm working on that a bit now.

Not sure if I can attach a zip file, but I'll try - it's the lazarus project directory.

If you want to see what I've got so far, you'll need MySql Community Server, MySQL Workbench (the GUI tools), and Lazarus.

I'm running MySQL 5.5, and Lazarus 1.2.2 - BOTH are 32 bit, and that's important. If you get the latest MySQL (5.6) it comes with everything, but the windows installer is 64 bit, so you'd also need to install 64 bit lazarus - just to be sure they play together nicely.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

200k filesize limit on .zip files - PM me an email address if you want the code.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Smallpiere, I'll go download Sql now so we can be on the same page. Then we'll begin hashing things out tomorrow. 

Been batshart busy lately, had work lined up for a new employee and he never showed up. Frustrating!! This week WILL end haha


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

ok got the first two but dont see lazarus...


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

For some reason, lazarus.freepascal.org isnt' working. I got mine from the sourceforge repository: http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/?source=directory

make sure you get the version that matches mysql, the client libraries gave me some **** when I had one 32 and one 64 bit. Can fix I'm sure but easier to have both the same.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

the rest of the freepascal.org site works fine :/

I've been on a job from hell the last couple of weeks - last job before the move has to be a toughie no?


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

You coulda told me to just get the mysql windows installer, lol. THAT was fun! ok, I'll go get the lazarus after work.

This could wind up being a cool little project.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

lol! yeah - the windows installer for 5.6 - the latest version is 64 bit, but it includes everything you need. That being the case, don't follow the recommendations on sourceforge to get the 32 bit version of Lazarus, get the 64 bit version. This way it'll play well with the mysql client libraries.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

I assumed you'd get the windows installer. There's a lot of different versions of it though. The older ones don't include the gui tools so you have to get that seperately.


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