# Wedge anchor problem....



## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

I'm in the process of installing aluminum railings on a set of concrete steps outside. I'm using 3/8" anchor wedges to secure the post bases.

The first three posts went fine. The last....not so well. I had a friend/coworker along to help me get the railings positioned between the posts. He drilled the four holes for the last post, using a rotary hammer. I'm not sure what went wrong, other than he kept bringing the drill in and out of the holes, like you might with a piece of wood. 

Anyway, the anchors will not set and want to spin when tightening the nuts. I've tried everything to get them back out and though they spin freely, will not come out.

Anyone got any ideas for this? I can move the base about an inch either way and still have the old holes covered by the trim , cut off the existing exposed bolts and drill new holes. I tried some Quickcrete epoxy made for securing threaded rods inside concrete holes but am unable to force much down into the holes so don't know if that is going to work. I also tried to drill one out but that didn't go well.

I hate when simple jobs turn into money-losing nightmares.

Any suggestions? Thanks.


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

Ran into a same problem in the past which is why we don’t use ancher wedges anymore, Simpson and Tapcon make anchor bolts, has just a bolt on the end so no over thread issues.

Getting out the old anchor you have two options, use a screw driver or needle nose plyers to hold the expandable piece 

Option 2, cut off the wedge and let drop in hole, if you have a large cavity (non-filled block) I use foam first then Simpson 2 part epoxy

http://www.strongtie.com/products/anchorsystems/mechanical/titen-hd/ 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-Epoxy-Tie-22-oz-Cartridge-SET-XP22/100659425


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

To remove a spinning anchor, you can usually pry the nut upward with a crow bar, screw drivers, wedges, or similar, while you loosen the nut. An impact will also help.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Get a compressor and blow out any dust that you can...that my free it up.

Or, apply upward pressure when trying to tighten, they might just grab and then all is good.

They do make a finer viscosity epoxy which, even though tight, should flow around in there enough to set the anchor.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

I always use Sleeve anchors, never any issues with them in concrete or hollow block.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Thanks everyone. Was unable to pry them up and didn't want to ruin the concrete by exerting too much pressure. I used Quikrete High Strength Anchoring Epoxy and forced it down around the anchor as much as I could and around the bottom of the threads. After 4 hours, I was able to screw the nuts down with no problem. I pushed and pulled and it seems like it's holding. I was impressed. I'll finish assembly tomorrow.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Robie said:


> Thanks everyone. Was unable to pry them up and didn't want to ruin the concrete by exerting too much pressure. I used Quikrete High Strength Anchoring Epoxy and forced it down around the anchor as much as I could and around the bottom of the threads. After 4 hours, I was able to screw the nuts down with no problem. I pushed and pulled and it seems like it's holding. I was impressed. I'll finish assembly tomorrow.


Robie sorry I didn't see this sooner, there is a 20 second fix for that if you have enough stud sticking out. Spin on 3 nuts, lock the last two together, tighten with the first using two wrenches. 

Sometimes you can pry up on the nut a little to set the sleeve.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Now you tell me....:whistling

That's okay...only had to travel 40 miles round trip and spend $18 for a tube of stuff I'll never use in the next 2 years. :laughing:

I've been using these anchors for years without problem. I hate to place blame but I think it was the bit being pulled in and out that enlarged the hole enough that the sleeve didn't set.

I just hope I can put enough "oomph" on them tomorrow to keep the base solidly attached.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Unless he really reamed the hole, it is not likely due to hole diameter, usually a bit looses diameter over time as it drills. If the anchor bolt was easily inserted then he reamed it too much, it you had to really hammer it to get it in, he likely damaged threads and you are spinning the bolt before the wedge grabs. 

You should always use the nut to protect the threads. 

As Inner said, you can put a prybar under the washer and while prying up slightly, tighten the anchor slowly allowing he prybar to lower til you have to pull it out.

Another method is to remove the nuts off the other 3, and use the handrail post as a way to pry up on the anchors while tightening, then re-install the 3 nuts


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Robie said:


> Now you tell me....:whistling
> 
> That's okay...only had to travel 40 miles round trip and spend $18 for a tube of stuff I'll never use in the next 2 years. :laughing:
> 
> ...


No you are suppose to retract the bit to clear debris It didn't bite because you didn't blow the hole and you used cheap redheads. 

You can't pull them back out don't even try.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> No you are suppose to retract the bit to clear debris It didn't bite because you didn't blow the hole and you used cheap redheads.
> 
> You can't pull them back out don't even try.


Bit was pulled back and forth 5-6 times. I vacuumed the holes well and even used a pencil to loosen the dust at the bottom.
The anchors were from Ace Hardware...not sure of brand.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Robie said:


> Bit was pulled back and forth 5-6 times. I vacuumed the holes well and even used a pencil to loosen the dust at the bottom.
> The anchors were from Ace Hardware...not sure of brand.


Well ****...


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Here is what we use for railings. Easy and fast. Very little chance of them not holding. They do use a special bit, but once you use these, there are lots of applications.

http://www.powers.com/product_7204SD.php


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## gfourth (Sep 12, 2014)

I've had that problem with only a handful of Hilti TZs through the years. I've got them out with a large crow bar and a lot of force, and they come out flying. If you can get them out... replace with epoxy and all-thread like an above poster said, simpson set, simpson set xp, or hilti, etc...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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