# contractor rights



## faux finish (Aug 15, 2012)

I finished a job, and was paid in full by the wife. Husband did not like the changes his wife made and I told him I would change it to make them a happy customer. I gave them a new date for the following week to fix the issues. She left a message on my machine that I don't have to come back they would take care of the problem themselves and would like some of their money back. I felt it would be better to walk away and agreed to give them the amount it would of cost me to go back and fix.Once they got their money, she went on Angies list and gave me F's across the board and accused me of being a lair, a crook and was just a horrible contractor.Then she filed a complaint with the BBB, she felt more money is due back and they only agreed to the amount because that's all they felt they would get out of me. My question is, if they wouldn't let be come back and "fix" the issues, what a my legal rights?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

What a schmozzle...you have right to cure if you bunked something up, but if this is a husband/wife battle and the wife signed off on the work then I don't know what they have to complain about.

Obviously there are deeper rooted problems if they went out of their way to slam you on BBB and Angies....

Are you a lousy contractor?:laughing:


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## GTX63 (Sep 9, 2011)

faux finish said:


> I finished a job, and was paid in full by the wife. Husband did not like the changes his wife made and I told him I would change it to make them a happy customer.


If the above statement is correct, then there are pieces missing from the story. If he didn't like what his wife had you do then that is between them. Bid to make changes to his liking. You must have had a contract and she paid you in full. Sounds like the case is closed.


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## faux finish (Aug 15, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> What a schmozzle...you have right to cure if you bunked something up, but if this is a husband/wife battle and the wife signed off on the work then I don't know what they have to complain about.
> 
> Obviously there are deeper rooted problems if they went out of their way to slam you on BBB and Angies....
> 
> Are you a lousy contractor?:laughing:


I did a texture finish, the wife asked me to add more texture than what was on the sample board they approved. The husband didn't like the extra texture, I told him I would fix it and make them happy. I've been in business for over 25 years and never had someone flip like this.


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## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm not sure how Angie's List handles rebuttals to posted reviews, i.e. is it possible for you to respond with your side of the story? How do they vet bad reviews before posting them on their site?

With the BBB, they will try to resolve the dispute between you and the customer; acting like a mediator. Any complaint filed by a disgruntled customer does not affect your rating unless the BBB sides with the customer because you were uncooperative or the complaint resolution process reveals that you were in the wrong. As you posted your business name in your profile, I had a quick look at the BBB website in your area and you currently have an A+ rating with no logged complaints.

BBB Business Review

As to your original question, most of your rights are spelled out in your contract.


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## faux finish (Aug 15, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> If the above statement is correct, then there are pieces missing from the story. If he didn't like what his wife had you do then that is between them. Bid to make changes to his liking. You must have had a contract and she paid you in full. Sounds like the case is closed.


I was there for 2 days doing this texture finish. Several times through out the 2 days she would pop in and I would ask her how was everything looking, her usual response was beautiful. At the end of the job the husband pointed out the color was off from the sample board and I agreed to come back and re due the color and that I would fix the texture while I was there at no extra cost. I told them that my only concern was to make them a happy and satisfied customer. Later that night she left a message on my machine they felt they would fix it on their own and wanted money back. Even after agreeing to everything they asked she went out of her way to bad mouth me every way possible. I would like to sue these people, there is no reason to do what they are doing.


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## faux finish (Aug 15, 2012)

Astrix said:


> I'm not sure how Angie's List handles rebuttals to posted reviews, i.e. is it possible for you to respond with your side of the story? How do they vet bad reviews before posting them on their site?
> 
> With the BBB, they will try to resolve the dispute between you and the customer; acting like a mediator. Any complaint filed by a disgruntled customer does not affect your rating unless the BBB sides with the customer because you were uncooperative or the complaint resolution process reveals that you were in the wrong. As you posted your business name in your profile, I had a quick look at the BBB website in your area and you currently have an A+ rating with no logged complaints.
> BBB Business Review
> ...


 Thanks, I did a rebuttale on angies list and I think that's what got her so fired up.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

faux finish said:


> I finished a job, and was paid in full by the wife. Husband did not like the changes his wife made and I told him I would change it to make them a happy customer. I gave them a new date for the following week to fix the issues. She left a message on my machine that I don't have to come back they would take care of the problem themselves and would like some of their money back. I felt it would be better to walk away and agreed to give them the amount it would of cost me to go back and fix.Once they got their money, she went on Angies list and gave me F's across the board and accused me of being a lair, a crook and was just a horrible contractor.Then she filed a complaint with the BBB, she felt more money is due back and they only agreed to the amount because that's all they felt they would get out of me. My question is, if they wouldn't let be come back and "fix" the issues, what a my legal rights?


First of all, if you got paid in full for the work well done, WTF are you going back to fix the changes you been asked to make? If the husband don't like what his wife asked you to do and he wants to undo... give him a new estimate not money back, because you did nothing wrong. 

Second of all if you going back to change something free of charge, which wasn't your fault to begin with... WTF are you giving them the money back? Are you not telling us something?... because none of it makes any sense...

Third of all, you got yourself into this mess, and like I said before, unless you not telling us something... for them to go and make such efforts to f^*k you up like this in every place, I think they're whacked out or something else went down... Did you bang the wife by any chance and husband got jealous? :laughing:

Kidding aside, if there is no wrong doing on your part and you say the way it is, you have a good case of deformation of character, profit loss, and special damages case... with that said BBB will not publish the complaint unless they find you guilty, I don't know what policy rules about complaints Angie's list follows... but if they posted the complaints without giving you a chance to dispute this claims, get busy and start writing letters, to have theirs complaints removed and save all documentation, because you will need it if it goes further. 

Good luck


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Something sounds fishy. . .


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

I filed with the BBB once over a 4 wheeler I bought new, but found out later that it was wrecked and rebuilt. Tried to get my money back and they said no way. After much running around, the BBB told me there is nothing they could do. This was back in the early 90's so maybe they got tougher.


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## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

GaryH: I don't think the BBB has changed much from when you dealt with them back in the 90s. 

Local BBBs are individually owned franchises, so depending on who is running the BBB in your area, you will get varying levels of interest in helping you mediate your dispute.

Furthermore, many people believe that the BBB actually has powers to enforce a contract. Not true. They offer a mediation service as an alternative to the harsher tactic of suing in court. That is why if a lawsuit has already been filed, they won't get involved. 

Both parties have to voluntarily agree to the mediation process. If one or the other doesn't want to sit down at the table to negotiate a mutually acceptable settlement, then the BBB can't force it and they simply close out their file.

In the case of a scammer fraudulently selling a rebuilt ATV as new, it is doubtful that this criminal would reply to the BBB. Only legitimate businesses who are interested in preserving their good reputation will try to resolve a customer complaint. Depending on who you are dealing with, sometimes you just have to go direct to the courts or the police as the BBB is useless.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

if you're actually in the right, and they're not totally crazy, then have your lawyer send them a little letter about defamation of character and they'll probably drop things.


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

aptpupil said:


> if you're actually in the right, and they're not totally crazy, then have your lawyer send them a little letter about defamation of character and they'll probably drop things.


Hold on a second. Someone has the right to speak negatively about you. It's called being in America. They can say that you did a bad job, or that you misled them, or that they feel cheated, or even that it would please them if someone picked up a knife and stabbed you to death. 

None of those things are defaming to your character. If they say something that is not true, like you have no idea what you're doing, it is still not defamation. Defamation only exists when the speaker knows that what they're saying is a lie - in that case, the speaker has no idea what your qualifications are and can easily believe that you in fact have no idea what you're doing.

Trying to initiate a legal action because you have a dissatisfied customer.??? Please!!! Maybe you should grow up! You can't please everyone and even though you should try to, you're not in control of their satisfaction in the end.

Do good work, be an honest person, treat people with respect and the yelp review won't count for ****.

Keith


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

UALocal1Plumber said:


> Hold on a second. Someone has the right to speak negatively about you. It's called being in America. They can say that you did a bad job, or that you misled them, or that they feel cheated, or even that it would please them if someone picked up a knife and stabbed you to death.
> 
> None of those things are defaming to your character. If they say something that is not true, like you have no idea what you're doing, it is still not defamation. Defamation only exists when the speaker knows that what they're saying is a lie - in that case, the speaker has no idea what your qualifications are and can easily believe that you in fact have no idea what you're doing.
> 
> ...


Keith, you're right this is USA and you can say anything you want, but you wrong about Defamation... and if he did everything they asked him to do as he said, and now they're doing this to him, that is Defamation of Character... If you look it up what it means in legal terms... Defamation is false and unprivileged spoken words or written publication, which exposes any living person to hatred, contempt, ridicule, *or which causes him/her to be shunned or avoided, or which has a tendency to injure him/her in his/her trade or occupation*.

So if someone writes some BS about you and that lowers your reputation, or it keeps people from associating with you or your business, then that is defamation and that is what they doing in his situation based on his story, so he has a case.


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

greg24k said:


> Keith, you're right this is USA and you can say anything you want, but you wrong about Defamation... and if he did everything they asked him to do as he said, and now they're doing this to him, that is Defamation of Character... If you look it up what it means in legal terms... Defamation is false and unprivileged spoken words or written publication, which exposes any living person to hatred, contempt, ridicule, or which causes him/her to be shunned or avoided, or which has a tendency to injure him/her in his/her trade or occupation.
> 
> So if someone writes some BS about you and that lowers your reputation, or it keeps people from associating with you or your business, then that is defamation and that is what they doing in his situation based on his story, so he has a case.


Ok, you're using a dictionary definition of defame. In legal terms, in order to prove defamation, YOU need to PROVE in court that three things happened:

The other person spoke a lie;

That the other person knew that they spoke a lie and what the effects of the lie would be;

That you suffered actual injury as a result of that person's actions.


If someone says "that person is a jerk", it is not defamation because it is impossible to prove or disprove that someone is a jerk. If however they say "that person is a child molester and should be avoided" it is easier to prove or disprove that fact. Defamation: "John is a fraud who steals money from old ladies and then rapes them in stolen cars". Not defamation: "John is a douchebag who overcharges people because of his small penis, and should be beaten about the head neck chest face and genitals with a sock filled with razor blades".


Guess what dude, NOBODY sues for defamation because they're virtually impossible to win. And why would you waste your time with something like that? Are you 12? are your feelings really devastated because someone spoke poorly about you? And if you think you can live in a world where nobody logs onto the internet to complain about you, you're living a dream. 



Keith


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

Most people are reasonable, most people do not want a conflict , and most problems contractors experience are of their own creation.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

ranteso said:


> Most people are reasonable, most people do not want a conflict , and most problems contractors experience are of their own creation.



that's because we are people too, with thoughts and emotions....but I don't whole heartily agree with that statement..

sometimes people are douchebags and sometimes they want or expect too much.

as to the OP...who cares what someone wrote on angies list..
i had a client we worked on 4 years ago recently bash us for a job we did 4 years ago..that was a first.

just make your rebuttal, don't sound conflicted or vengeful..just put your side there and move on..

As for the defamation case..I don't think a lawyer will touch it..they would be stealing your money if they did..its weak at best


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## A-1 Interiors (Oct 12, 2011)

I think you can just state your side of the story an angies list as an answer to these people ,i am sure you have many positive reviews already and 1 bad one wont hurt your business especially if people see your side of the story most will realize these folks were working together playing good guy bad guy and when you tried to make them happy they took advantage of you, (they gave you opposing requests and you did your best to make them happy ) unfortunately some people are scumbags and will try to get over every chance they can 
Hold your head up and move on brother you did what you could 
that doesn't mean you still couldn't have your lawyer send a letter to tell them to cut the *****


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

UALocal1Plumber said:


> Ok, you're using a dictionary definition of defame. In legal terms, in order to prove defamation, YOU need to PROVE in court that three things happened:
> 
> The other person spoke a lie;
> 
> ...


You couldn't come up with a better example...Maybe you should see a specialist about that...because every example you came up with had rape, genitals, penis,child molestations,etc in it... Not only these examples makes no sense, it sounds like you have a few lose screws someplace.


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

greg24k said:


> You couldn't come up with a better example...it sounds like you have a few lose screws someplace.


Hahahahaha I won't disagree with you on that!

Keith


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)




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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

faux finish said:


> ....... would like some of their money back........Then she filed a complaint with the BBB, she felt more money is due back and they only agreed to the amount because that's all they felt they would get out of me.


If the actions were to get money from you, then it is illegal, can you find other cases where they have done this in the past to others?

In my read on this, the wife accepted the work, and the husband had numerous times where he could have asked for a better job, and didnt until you were done. The wife should not have accepted the work if she knew he was unhappy. You should not have asked her to accept the work if you were aware that he had some concerns. 

I think it was a bit of a trap, but you did not play smart either.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Pearce Services said:


> If the actions were to get money from you, then it is illegal, can you find other cases where they have done this in the past to others?
> 
> In my read on this, the wife accepted the work, and the husband had numerous times where he could have asked for a better job, and didnt until you were done. The wife should not have accepted the work if she knew he was unhappy. You should not have asked her to accept the work if you were aware that he had some concerns.
> 
> I think it was a bit of a trap, but you did not play smart either.


many people will give you the benefit of the doubt and wait til you are done....some will get you right away, only to have you respond" Im not done yet"

though i don't think this is the case here...some people may feel funny saying something when you are in progress.

i think everyone has worked for someone where you can just tell something is not right in their mind..they seem off about the tesult of the job or the progress of it..this is where you need to be very direct and try to get them to spill it or forever hold their peace


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

This thread is useless without pictures


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

Pics or it didn't happen


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## ranteso (Nov 11, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> that's because we are people too, with thoughts and emotions....but I don't whole heartily agree with that statement..
> 
> sometimes people are douchebags and sometimes they want or expect too much.
> 
> ...



I agree, we as people are all schmucks at one point or another during our lives, but if you take the bull by the horns early in the process and clearly state the terms, clearly write and verbally express the process, present a clear scope of work and keep all paying parties directly involved you will eliminate the "well i though you where going to do this" syndrome. or " my husband thought you said this" excuse 

It's not an easy business to begin with, but if we get anything right it better be ensuring the client fully, meaning 100% understands what they are getting, and it's the contractors responsibility that that happens. 

I'm not going against the OP, I'm just giving my opinion of a lifetime of business experience dealing with people, and I've come to the conclusion that more times than not the contractor failed somewhere along the communication line.


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## larryb (May 23, 2008)

If the customer expresses an opinion, that is not chargeable. If however, they tell what they know to be an outright lie, that would be defamation/business defamation, possibly slander. Writing those lies and publishing them (such as on Angie's dopey list - dopey being an opinion) is also chargable libel. If you did nothing wrong, send them a cease and desist letter demanding they remove any and all of the offending language submitted to the BBB and Angie's list and never bad mouth you again to anyone or face a $50k + lawsuit in District court. That usually shuts them up.

I usually ended up with one of those type of customers about every three years. Everytime I sent one of those non-attorney written letters, it did the trick.


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## disantodrywall (Jul 24, 2010)

i had a customer a few weeks back i was drywalling for, he told me i was taking to long but everytime i went to work it was you can hang this and this and this but leave this open so the electrion/plumber can do their thing. so id hang everything and put one coat of mud on, then the next time i went usually a week later id mud it again and hang the next couple of walls. then i spent one sat their for 9 hour hanging everything else except one wall that needed five sheets. He called me that mondy and said i got someone else coming t finish come get your stuff. 

I didnt bother fighting him on it because i didnt have in my contract anything about if for unforseen problems arise and what ever then all work completed must be paid for. or whatever.

He didnt even tell me what i did wrong that he didnt like so i chalkedit up as a loss. and moved on.


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## Shellbuilder (May 14, 2006)

faux finish said:


> I finished a job, and was paid in full by the wife. Husband did not like the changes his wife made and I told him I would change it to make them a happy customer. I gave them a new date for the following week to fix the issues. She left a message on my machine that I don't have to come back they would take care of the problem themselves and would like some of their money back. I felt it would be better to walk away and agreed to give them the amount it would of cost me to go back and fix.Once they got their money, she went on Angies list and gave me F's across the board and accused me of being a lair, a crook and was just a horrible contractor.Then she filed a complaint with the BBB, she felt more money is due back and they only agreed to the amount because that's all they felt they would get out of me. My question is, if they wouldn't let be come back and "fix" the issues, what a my legal rights?


Va. requires both husband and wife to sign a change order.


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## UALocal1Plumber (Jun 19, 2009)

Shellbuilder said:


> Va. requires both husband and wife to sign a change order.


Especially when only one of them owns the house


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## 6wheeldump (Oct 6, 2012)

Sounds like you're pretty screwed dude. Lesson learned for the next time.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Yikes! Your first mistake was to refund money for a job after it had been approved and the final payment made. You did the work, why would you give them money back? I understand going over to fix something up but not a monetary refund, that's like saying 'I messed up so bad here's some money' to most people. I wouldn't even go back to touch a paint job, other than a touch-up, if we had walked through and inspected to project together before the final payment. 

The second mistake is to not prepare a job specific sample that is signed off. When I did faux painting(a looong time ago) I used to show samples for sales purposes but would actually make a small sample with as I was getting ready to do each job and have the customer sign approval right on the sample. There was also plenty of language in my contract to indicate that some variation from the sample was to be expected as decorative painting does not create a uniform surface.

When you mix custom ingredients for each project the samples aren't going to be exact.


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