# Seeing the other guy's quote



## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

Had a potential customer send an email out to three contractors tonight, including me.

He had attached a written estimate from a previous contractor that he felt was way too high. 

I had conflicting feelings about opening the estimate, which I ultimately ended up doing (no s$*%, right?)

On the one hand, I felt kindof crappy for the guy who bothered to write up this nice estimate and send it out, only to have it shopped around so flagrantly (with his contact) information still left on it, no less). 

I also know that this has to have happened with my own estimates and that kindof pisses me off a little on some reptilian level, right? 

Do I say "He quoted the thing too high, didn't get the job, so screw 'em and let me get a good look at the competition"?

In the same vein, someone is going to get this job probably, and hell, it might as well be me, so let's get a good look at this thing. Nothing personal, it's just business, right? 

Look, I'm glad to literally know what I'm competing with, but I also feel a little sleezy....like I'm creeping around drilling small viewing holes through the ceiling over a dressing room at the mall. 

How do you guys feel in this situation?


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## Bummie (May 11, 2007)

It's not right!! I wouldn't work for them. If they will do this what else are they capable of going to do when it comes to the work or your reputation??


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

When I actually worked for a living we did not have cell phones & email.

A few times potential clients handed me anothers guys quote to look over.

IMO, these people demonstrated a lack of ethical behavior. If they did this during the bid process what was in store down the road?????

If the bid was received in the mail I sent it back with a note that I was unable to consider their project at this time.

If in person it was pretty much the same thing.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Why are you basing your pricing off his estimate?


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

Excellent counter-points fellas. Worth considering. 

I didn't see it right away as an obvious ethical lapse, because it didn't seem like THAT big of a leap from someone telling me "Well, I got a quote from another guy for 5 grand, and that was insanely too high, what can you do" 

What if he had redacted the personal information for this contractor? Would that have made a difference to you? 

What if he had changed the language a bit, or copied and pasted parts of it?

My quotes feel personal to me (since I spend a lot of time writing fairly detailed estimates), so this would piss me off for sure. But I'm not ready to call this customer evil, he really may not have thought it through or understood what these quotes mean to us.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Sometimes the guy that is "Way too high" is not high enough, and seeing those numbers taints the way I would initially look at the project.

I might run my numbers and come up higher (or lower) than the "other guy" then go back and look for places to cut (or add) to my own budget, when the reality is, the customer is wrong and the price is what it is.....

Having others pricing info might seem fine at first glance, but nobody does it like you do, so why gauge yourself by them.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I would reply with it makes no difference what the other quote is. Your price reflects the products and quality you provide and no 2 contractors use the same products or do the same quality work.

Most people who play this game are just hoping you will bite and do it lower without even calculating your price.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

You want to show me someone else's quote, I have no qualms about looking at it. But that's not going to change my pricing at all. Conversely, I'm not going to be particularly bothered if you show my numbers to someone else.

Stores don't hide their prices, why should I?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Stores don't hide their prices, why should I?


You should for the same reasons that you don't tell your employees what their co-workers earn on a weekly basis.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tedanderson said:


> You should for the same reasons that you don't tell your employees what their co-workers earn on a weekly basis.


If you work a union job everyone knows what everyone else is making.


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## glkirk (Nov 27, 2011)

Another way to look at it- I urge my customers to get 3 bids on the detailed project. (Best if they know, up front, what the market is bearing). I don't care how the details get documented, as long as they do, and we all bid on the same project.
I often tell my clients/customers to scratch off my company info and use my plans and specs for others to bid. (BTW, most don't, and hire me without getting more bids).


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

tedanderson said:


> You should for the same reasons that you don't tell your employees what their co-workers earn on a weekly basis.


Kinda reaching there, Ted. I'm not selling to them, I'm buying their services. That's a whole different ball game.


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## CITY DECKS INC (Sep 4, 2012)

I get few times a year...your about 20-30% higher then other quotes can we do anything about it. I say send it over If it's apples to apples I'll see what I can do. They never and I still get the job and usually up sell a lot of extras.

Not sure how I feel about seeing other estimates considering I never match the price or change my price. 

I'm sure some just send mine out and others take a few bucks off but still never apples to apples.

It is what it is....don't sweat what you can't control.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

griz said:


> When I actually worked for a living we did not have cell phones & email.
> 
> A few times potential clients handed me anothers guys quote to look over.
> 
> ...


The couple of times this has happened to me, I've told them the other guy's quote looked good, and they should take it. Not a moral stand, just my preference in those cases.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I just went through this a few weeks ago. The lady showed me the other real (first) quote she got from a legitimate competitor. The competitor failed to realize that there was a crawlspace that would have cut the price down considerably in running this 100 foot 60 amp service to their hot tub. (Rigid vs EMT and about 40 feet less of a run)

He simply missed that option and didn't check the house out thoroughly enough. I've missed obvious better solutions as well many times.

Then she tells me verbally what the OTHER 2 quotes were and one was stupid low, and the *other guy* was within FIVE dollars of mine after I ran the numbers, done correctly. I added exactly $200 to the *other guys* quote and sent it out since I don't like working with unethical clients.

She went with the lowest guy.

4 Quotes


First EC ($2900) but missed the crawlspace option but legitimate EC.
Mine ($1400) 
"Other Guy" ($1200)
Lowest guy ($650)-the one she went with. It wouldn't even cover materials. Good luck with that lady.

Bottom line is that she turned me off immediately when sharing the other guys prices.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

As a General Contractor in California it's not legal for me to give my subs another subs prices during the bidding process.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

onmywayup said:


> ...
> In the same vein, someone is going to get this job probably, and hell, it might as well be me,...


At the end of the job, you might not feel the same.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

I would look at it and not feel too bad about it. I wouldn't talk bad about the business who submitted it and I would consider letting your customer know that his action is a bit of a red flag. If I needed the job I would bid it any ways and if I where a few months out I would pass and let him know why. If I did choose to pass for that reason I would use the contact info on the proposal and let them know how their proposal was being used.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I have only wanted to see them after I lost it when they said I was twice what others bid. I just want to rip it apart letting them know that they were not bidding what I bid.


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## AmeliaP (Apr 22, 2007)

*Seeing The Other Guy's Quote*

We have a customer who we've done several jobs for and this is something he does. Sometimes he just gives us the gig and sometimes he shows us other bids and asks about price differences. He's real easy to work with and we've never changed our prices so we never thought much about it. 

Once he got a real low bid and it was obvious to us something was amiss. I looked the other guy up and there was some serious legal issues with him. We really struggled with wondering if we should tell our customer that info or if it would make us look bad somehow. In the end we did not tell him because he did do some stringent background checks on us so we figured he'd find out himself, and he did. 

Since then we'd rather not see other bids. We aren't going to change ours anyway and we didn't like being in that odd position.


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## Bearded Wonder (Jan 21, 2011)

Had that happen a couple times. Just looked over the other bid out of curiosity and to see if I was quoting the same things. Still quoted it the same way I would have, because who knows if the other guy is high low or dead on, but then added quite a bit for pita factor. Someone who will bid shop like that is A. likely a pretty sorry individual, and B. definitely going to be a pain in the ass. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

tedanderson said:


> You should for the same reasons that you don't tell your employees what their co-workers earn on a weekly basis.


 what employees make is never really a secret---- they are going to gossip amongst themselves even if you don't disclose pay rates.

I have been out in the open about employees pay for 25-30 years. If they don't like it---work somewhere else!

since we put employees on a profit sharing system----even what I make is out in the open. end of the year we all sit down with open books and go over figures--- here is what we did--- which projects were real winners---which we need to avoid in the future, how much we spent on marketing, what we spent on employee medical benefits, what our plans are for the next year, how much to boost marketing, are we adding another truck to the fleet and so forth----it's all out in the open--- including what I make.

we discuss what we expect each employee to make in the upcoming year---and exactly what they need to do to accomplish that. employee a needs to improve x, employee b needs to learn y---since employee b needs the cooperation and tutoring of employee a--- they all need to be on the same page....... don't like this system???? don't hire on here.

with regaurds to the OPs situation----- I believe I would decline to quote.
it's one thing to know who you are quoting against- but I think it's pretty filthy to have your proposal shopped like that.
stephen


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I haven't been presented a competitor's bid, but one of mine was given to the competition. 
I bid a local government job. I lost the bid by $141.00. A few weeks later one of the sub-contractors I got a bid from said, "What is going on with the city job? There was another guy in here, with your bid. He showed it to me and said "I need this job done.""

He had an actual copy of my bid, marked his price $141 lower without even getting his own sub-contractor bids.

I'm still not happy about it. I'm sure you can imagine how I would react if I was given the competition's bid.
The only positive I see about seeing someone's bid is that everyone is bidding the same scope of work.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

To many good fish in the sea to waste time on these types. If they want to price shop that hard let them waste the competitions time. 

It says something about them when they will shop a price that hard, if you get the job, as others have said, they are going to be a major pain and your probably going to end up not getting payed all you are owed. 

Big red flag. I'd steer clear.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm not going to rehash everything that was just said in another thread but someone offers you potentially useful information about your competition that isn't stolen or marked confidential and you won't read it? We're in the construction *business*. I wouldn't necessarily change my pricing because of it but it will give you very good insight into what the customer is looking for pricewise so you may decide to save time and decline, or the bid may be really high and you go ahead an bid.

I'm not remotely surprised if a customer shows me another quote. People price shop for EVERYTHING, why would we expect to be held sacred? If I want a price match from a supplier, I need to show them a quote. I show Lowes pricing to HD all the time. The internet is full of site that comparison shop for you. Our customers have changed, we need to as well. Or not, it's up to you.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I have a file cabinet full of other guys proposals. I'm more interested in the way its presented than in the number.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

I would love to see what other contractors contracts look like----

Only once has a customer shown me a competing quote---and that was after he accepted mine---mine was almost exactly double the cost of the other bid---

His was missing about half of the work----so his price was about right for the work he agreed to do---

One big problem--the customer wanted a completely finished,top quality job--not a cheap half done one.


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

Had this situation happen to me this week, had a fellow hand me a quote from another contractor. When I asked what it was he told me I handed it back to him and politely told him I don't operate that way. My quote is based on my expertise and quality of work and not the work a competitor does and if he's looking for the cheapest price then it most certainly will not be me. 

I think it's sleazy and disagree with Ethan, getting the going rate for a sheet of plywood isn't the same as price matching quotes. There are far too many variables to consider in a quote . I feel this is a personal thing between myself and the potential client, I wrote a quote for them, not Joe the hack to look over.


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> I would reply with it makes no difference what the other quote is. Your price reflects the products and quality you provide and no 2 contractors use the same products or do the same quality work.
> 
> Most people who play this game are just hoping you will bite and do it lower without even calculating your price.


Of course I'm basing MY numbers on my own business model and not someone else's price. However, it is certainly useful to see this other guy's quote, because frankly, I can do the job profitably for much more. 

I really do think in this case that this other fella was way over what needed to be charged. His overhead is too high, or he's strapped for cash and grasping, or so busy it doesn't matter......anyway, still good to see what my particular customer thought was "way too high."

My issue really was with this customer taking a document that feels personal to me and sending it out willy nilly.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> As a General Contractor in California it's not legal for me to give my subs another subs prices during the bidding process.



I bet it's illegal to roll through a stop sign, or go 10 mph over the speed limit in Cali too. I bet both of those happen a lot also.:laughing:


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## maninthesea (Nov 11, 2008)

Tonight I had a similar but different situation arise and I'm not sure what I will do about it. 
As far as I know I get pretty much every maintenance contract on the island for high pressure breathing air machines for the various agencies. I pretty much developed the market, give a reasonable price and I don't even know if they have looked for competitive bids.
Months ago I gave the fire dept a bid to do quarterly maint and sampling for "FY 2015". So tonight I called up a friend that used to work for me years ago. He maintains the machines where he works and calls me for help when he is over his head. If I have to make a site visit I charge them. Most of the time it's free phone consultation. Well tonight he tells me the Fire Dept asked them for a bid and what he bid on it.......Based on 3 quarters left in 2015 fiscal year. Of course it's lower as I based my quote on four quarters vs 3. So do I let it slide, Tell the fire dept to make sure they define what they are getting, or tell them to incist on getting four quarters worth of service for the bid.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

I don't think it's accurate to compare custom work with a retail product, and it's that mindset that leads people to shop by price. As we all know, there's more than one way to do anything. Better quality materials and craftsmanship. It's hard to reflect that in a bid. For me it's a red flag when someone offers me someone else's price, it means they are just kicking tires looking for a lowball price and price is what matters the most. And I don't want to put the lowball out of business.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

If I'm offered someone else's quote, I'll simply ask, "So, what do you want me to do with this?"

If they say, "I want to see if you can beat this price", I'll give it a quick once-over to see if I think I can. Usually not, however, as the price I'm being shown is already the lowest they've received so far. So my response is, "Hey, I ain't Wal-Mart Electric. I provide quality and service, not the lowest price. Since the lowest price is all that matters to you, let's not waste each others' time and part ways now."

However, there are times I've been shown other quotes _for the sole purpose of making sure my price is an apples-to-apples comparison._ If that's the case, it's SOP pricing.

Rock-bottom-price customers aren't my target market, so I see no reason to spend any more time on them than necessary. Just as well weed 'em out as soon as they show their true colors.


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

I don't participate in bid auctions. Thank you for your time and good luck with your project.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

I seldom have any prospect play games with my prices---

Might be the 'Clint Eastwood' look of impending death in my eyes:laughing:


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

slowsol said:


> I don't participate in bid auctions. Thank you for your time and good luck with your project.


Short, simple and sweet. Not bad.


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## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

Double it and send it back


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## 1985gt (Dec 10, 2010)

I'll ask to see other bids when there is not clear specs written so it can be apples to apples. I'll tell them to make a copy of a proposal and cover their pricing up, and the name if they want. I encourage them to do the same if I'm the first bidder on the project. I really could careless what other people charge or who can see what I would charge. We bid against a small group of people anyway so any public bids it's all out on the table for everyone to see.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

But doesn't the first guy's bid involve going to the site and accessing the scope of the work and maybe offering suggestions based on their experience?


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## 1985gt (Dec 10, 2010)

RangoWA said:


> But doesn't the first guy's bid involve going to the site and accessing the scope of the work and maybe offering suggestions based on their experience?


Yeah it does, but that does not mean that it is passed to the other contractors, or if it's even a good idea. Low slope roofing can be bid so many different ways and of course they all affect pricing.


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

i only know the value of my work, not the value of others.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

I have only had this happen a couple of times and told them straight out that I am not the cheapest. If they are looking for a deal or the cheapest, I am not there company and thank them for their time. Too many shady and fly by night companies, I will always cost more and for good reasons. I will not have a bid war, my time, people and skill are valuable, value costs money.

It just is what it is. I remember a time that I was hungry and looking for work. I might cut the lowest bid just to get a job, then loose money because the orginal bidder used cheaper material, didn't have enough time figured in, etc...

Not worth it, a buddy told me a few years ago when a customer or even friend wants a deal here is your response " I am very busy, you know or heard I do quality work, your friend or deal is that I am going to complete your job and you have no worries that things won't be done right and the quality of work will be at the highest levels possible".

So I really don't care what the other bid looks like


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

My quotes/estimates always have inaccurate window sizes or the width and height measurements reversed.

Had a guy order over $14K of custom windows based on the sizes in my estimate.

Mark


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## ejsmgmt (Nov 29, 2012)

I had a client ask me to bid on a freestanding garage since he was blown away by the other contractors bid. I was talking to the guy about the details and he told me the other guys bid. I was even taken aback by how high it was, like I think he multiplied instead of adding.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

MarkNoV said:


> My quotes/estimates always have inaccurate window sizes or the width and height measurements reversed.
> 
> Had a guy order over $14K of custom windows based on the sizes in my estimate.
> 
> Mark


I like that, but it's hard to believe.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Who cares,

In my industry quotes are never apples to apples.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

ejsmgmt said:


> I had a client ask me to bid on a freestanding garage since he was blown away by the other contractors bid. I was talking to the guy about the details and he told me the other guys bid. I was even taken aback by how high it was, like I think he multiplied instead of adding.


Some businesses make their bid extremely high hoping to not get the job for one reason or another, just fyi.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Who cares,
> 
> In my industry quotes are never apples to apples.


When I first started in security sales I would have at least one or two technology/engineer type guys a week, show me the estimate from someone else (like ADT) who would just low ball the price. After a couple of these I realized that the quotes from big national firms were leases, not sales. 

So this really was an apples to oranges type of situation. We sold systems to residential and mostly leased to commercial. So when an HO would show me the estimate or quote a number that was way too low (again 99% of the time from ADT) I would explain the lease vs owning situation. And you know what ??? The HO didn't care....he would quote the sales guy who told the HO that he owned it.....but the contract/estimate said exactly the opposite (in very teeny tiny writing hidden in the paperwork). 

Now, many years later, I don't care. Like others, if someone shows me an estimate, it is usually because they want a cheaper price. If someone shows me an estimate.....I become wary of them immediately....and if I look at it (because now I am curious)....it is so poorly written and general...it is basically useless. 

The bottom line is: if someone now shows me an estimate to get a better price, my standard line is: Go with it, and, let the client deal with the lowballer and the results.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

brhokel606 said:


> Some businesses make their bid extremely high hoping to not get the job for one reason or another, just fyi.


I have done this to get out of a project that was going to be a PIB. Especially those that say: No, I don't want a permit or inspections, just get it done as quick as possible.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

cwatbay said:


> I have done this to get out of a project that was going to be a PIB. Especially those that say: No, I don't want a permit or inspections, just get it done as quick as possible.


I've done that as well. Gotten a few too.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> I've done that as well. Gotten a few too.


Same here. You have to make it high enough that it will be worth it if they do accept.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Same here. You have to make it high enough that it will be worth it if they do accept.


Yep, as Inner said, I have also gotten a few that were bid very high. And exactly as TNT said, make it high enough that it is worth it in the end. I have had the squeezing in of a job you never wanted or thought you would get but money talks sometimes.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i won't look at any other contractor's quote, unless it's at a public bid opening...IMO...it's highly unethical. 

in my 33 years. i've had many occasions where i had a scheduled appointment to "submit my bid" ...only to get there, and have some developer have my competitions bids/quotes laying on his desk in plain view. 

when asked for mine, i politiely tell them...well, it appears that you've already got numbers that fall well within the budget of your project, i'd select one of those. 99% of the time they'll say..but i haven't seen yours yet. i tell them....you won't either.

my market is small, and for the most part, my competition are friends of mine. we already know where our numbers are, should be...we don't need to or don't run up and down the street beating each other up on projects. 

i'll go head to head with my competitors any day of the week on a legitimate bid. again, our market is small...and my competition knows what it costs to do business. i respect them, and repeatedly, they've proven to me that they respect me also.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

sunkist said:


> i only know the value of my work, not the value of others.


what a truism


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

this is a wonderful thread.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

MarkNoV said:


> My quotes/estimates always have inaccurate window sizes or the width and height measurements reversed.
> 
> Had a guy order over $14K of custom windows based on the sizes in my estimate.
> 
> Mark


Oh man.... that's just wrong on so many levels, but damned funny all the same. 

:clap:


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

If the client pays a fair price for a detailed estimate/proposal then it's not bad, otherwise it's stealing the time it took to prepare the bid and yes, it's definitely an indication of the integrity of the client. 

Of course some trades are a lot easier to accurately bid then others.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i was the "newbie" once...why would you prop up, make fun of your competition's mistakes? i've made them, plenty of them...

i had the luxury of being involved in a family business for many years. my dad telling me, jump on this, or stand off.

having my dad tell me...don't embaress this guy.."competition"...you may need him someday.

you will never make your business on "one job"...there have to be many. the associations you make in life...the people you work for...have to know that maybe you're not the cheapest game in town, but for them, you're the biggest bang for their buck.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

If somebody wants to show me an estimate, sure I'll take a look. I'm just curious about whether the scope/details/features are the same. As folks meet contractors and get estimates, it's amazing how they will divert from their own plan without realizing it. This goes for bathroom remodels, anyhow.

Example: "Mark, we want to go with you, but we have this other quote that's better." If I get the chance to have a look, it's amazing what's missing. Where's the Panasonic vent fan you had wanted? Didn't you want a shower niche? What about upgrading the medicine cabinet? Basic stuff like that.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

MarkJames said:


> I like that, but it's hard to believe.


First, it is important to know that, as a rule, in Quebec, most windows are made to measure. In all the years I have been in this business I have not sold or installed an off the shelf window.

Here is the story. 

I was a sub on a window install for a paper GC. After I told him the windows could have been larger all around, making for an easier installation and a nicer finished look.

" I just used the other guy's measurements " was his answer. 

You can bet your booty I stored that info for future reference. 

A couple of years after I get a call in response to one of my ads. (I advertize regularly) to give a free (he made sure of that) estimate for 40 windows in a part of Montreal well known for its frugal population, (it is easy to find, you can hear the pennies screaming).

I am on a ladder measuring, my brother is on the ground, writing down the sizes, the "customer" is hanging around within earshot, also taking notes. 

I heard through the grapevine that it was quite a scene, as both him and the manufacturer belonged to the same house of worship.

The reason I give free estimates and leave quotes behind is not to give away useful or valuable information but to give me an opportunity to decide if I want to do business with that person. Sort of a reconnaissance mission.






Mark


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

I dunno, if you offer a contract with all-wrong window sizes and the HO signs it, you could be in for all kinds of grief if he holds you to those sizes. Just saying... :whistling:


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

MarkNoV said:


> First, it is important to know that, as a rule, in Quebec, most windows are made to measure. In all the years I have been in this business I have not sold or installed an off the shelf window.
> 
> Here is the story.
> 
> ...


To be clear, it was hard for me to believe another guy would actually place an order without double-checking measurements. But if I saw somebody writing down all my measurements, maybe I would have a little fun, too.

Thanks for the explanation. But now I'm wondering a couple things:

1) Why did you take detailed measurements for a free estimate. Is that's how it's done? I'm not a window guy, but I figure I would count them, take a few measurements for sizing (but not all), and go with it. No?

2) The other thing is how/why you called down wrong measurements, if that's what you did. Was that part of the plan since they were writing it all down? I'm just amused and curious more than anything.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> I dunno, if you offer a contract with all-wrong window sizes and the HO signs it, you could be in for all kinds of grief if he holds you to those sizes. Just saying... :whistling:


I thought the same thing. And in most states an estimate is a legally binding contact.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I thought the same thing. And in most states an estimate is a legally binding contact.


It may be legally binding, however your not obligated to do the job yet until a contract is signed. So if I decide to do the job if has to be by the terms of the proposal. Doen't mean I can't back out and not do the job.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> It may be legally binding, however your not obligated to do the job yet until a contract is signed. So if I decide to do the job if has to be by the terms of the proposal. Doen't mean I can't back out and not do the job.


Offer, acceptance, consideration. Dont think you have a deal until money changes hands.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Metro M & L said:


> Offer, acceptance, consideration. Dont think you have a deal until money changes hands.


In this state you don't have a deal unless a legal California accepted contract is signed by both parties. This state even regulates the font size, not to mention the language.


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## MarkNoV (Apr 29, 2006)

Californiadecks said:


> In this state you don't have a deal unless a legal California accepted contract is signed by both parties. This state even regulates the font size, not to mention the language.


Same thing in Quebec. We have a Civil Code, and our contracts fit on one page and consist mostly of compulsory clauses. 

The cancellation clause has to be most prominent.

Estimates, quotes, guesses, statements of best intentions, etc, are not contracts. 

In any case, regardless of your jurisdiction, it would be wise to write "all sizes approximate" or "to fit existing opening" especially in the window business.

Mark


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Who cares,
> 
> In my industry quotes are never apples to apples.


Even if the products proposed are the same and the price is the same, the quote is never apples to apples because of who is doing the work.

We aren't a product based industry, we are service.


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## carpenter uk (Nov 25, 2009)

I have just done a commercial job where the qs sent me an excel bill of quantities that had already been filled in by another contractor
I ran my own numbers on it and was very similar with a lot of items but the roof i was more than 50% lower which worried me a bit so i increased my rates a bit. 
I won the job and made a fortune on the roof.

I agree it is not ethical but all i can do is work with what I've got to work with, I never asked him to send me the other contractors rates and if it was deliberate on his part it backfired as I increased what I would have charged had I not been furnished with the information he sent.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> It may be legally binding, however your not obligated to do the job yet until a contract is signed. So if I decide to do the job if has to be by the terms of the proposal. Doen't mean I can't back out and not do the job.


Like I said in some states
a quote is considered a legally binding contract. If the customer signs the quote you may be bound to the terms of the quote.

And it actually does mean that you can't back out. 






Californiadecks said:


> In this state you don't have a deal unless a legal California accepted contract is signed by both parties. This state even regulates the font size, not to mention the language.


And most don't. So it's fallacy to give advice solely based on your experience, in this instance.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Like I said in some states
> a quote is considered a legally binding contract. If the customer signs the quote you may be bound to the terms of the quote.
> 
> And it actually does mean that you can't back out.
> ...


Not this state


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> Not this state


I think we established that. The OP is in Michigan and the lad who started this rabbit trail is in Montreal. California ways aren't going to help much.

Like I said, depending on your area, you could be held to your quote as your contract price. If nothing changed between the time you submitted the estimate to the time you presented the contract, you could be held to the estimate price. There are bait and switch laws that help protect consumers.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I think we established that. The OP is in Michigan and the lad who started this rabbit trail is in Montreal. California ways aren't going to help much.
> 
> Like I said, depending on your area, you could be held to your quote as your contract price. If nothing changed between the time you submitted the estimate to the time you presented the contract, you could be held to the estimate price. There are bait and switch laws that help protect consumers.


No, but you're the the one who used the words "most states". So I just pointed out it didn't include this one. That's all.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I thought the same thing. And in most states an estimate is a legally binding contact.


In this post here


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> It may be legally binding, however your not obligated to do the job yet until a contract is signed. So if I decide to do the job if has to be by the terms of the proposal. Doen't mean I can't back out and not do the job.


This says nothing about California. You were directly confronting my statement concerning most states. So you were not simply pointing out that it wasn't that way in your state. Nice try though.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

TNT... if a customer signs a quote, but I do not, how are you asserting that is binding?...

Just because I present a quote does not mean I have to perform the work... another job could have come into play between when I submitted the quote and the customer signed it... IOW, conditions changed...

If it doesn't have my signature, I can change my mind for any reason...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> This says nothing about California. You were directly confronting my statement concerning most states. So you were not simply pointing out that it wasn't that way in your state. Nice try though.


Yes I was was. I was directly referring to your post. If you didn't know that then I am clearing that up for you now.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

You just have to argue don't you. I wasn't arguing or even disputing what you said. Once you used "most states" I preceded to let you know what my state offered. From now on if I'm referring to anything legal I am only speaking for my state. Just so you know.

Edit. Unless I specifically say I'm referring to other states. I have to write that or tnt will call me a liar later on.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)




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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

Those in the construction industry typically understand the basics of contracts. Even the word “contractor” reflects their regular use and experience with them. Nevertheless, the question of whether acceptance of a bid creates a binding contract comes up frequently. This question is not always answered easily, but a look at the legal nature of contracts helps answer it.

In the legal sense, a “contract” is an agreement whereby one party promises to pay money or perform services in exchange for another party’s promise to do the same. It creates rights between these parties that are enforceable under the law. Contracts are formed by an “offer” and an “acceptance.” Therefore, whether acceptance of a bid creates a contract largely depends on whether that bid legally constitutes an “offer.”
An offer capable of forming the basis of a contract must specifically state its essential terms. Those terms include the identity of the parties, the subject matter of the contract, and the consideration (which is the price and services to be exchanged). For example, if a subcontractor’s bid sets forth those terms, then the contractor’s acceptance of that bid will typically create a binding contract between them.

Despite this general rule, one should pay close attention to the language of the bid documents. For example, the bid documents may state that both acceptance of the bid and execution of a formal written agreement are conditions to the formation of a contract. A court will likely uphold such a requirement.

Finally, a contract arising from the acceptance of a bid does not eliminate the benefits of a formal written contract. A detailed, written agreement provides the parties the opportunity to fine tune the details of their respective obligations. The careful contractor will see that the parties’ obligations are set forth in more detail through a formal written agreement.

Here is a good explanation and is not dependant on state but certain states do have slight variations of this.


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