# Asbestos tiles



## ICC Carpentry (Oct 20, 2010)

Hello I started a project on a reo and took out carpet that was soiled with both human and animal waste. Underneath the carpet was old vinyl tiles like 8"x8" so I started demoing those tiles with a scrapper and a hammer with another employee, we had dust masks, gloves and eye protection, we tore out about 3 rooms of this stuff, now come to find out it might have asbestos in it  so now we have stoped work on the property and I an concerned with how serious this is please any advise of thought is welcome. Thanks again.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

double bag yourselves, hepa the ouside of the bags and throw yoourselves in a dumpster before you contaminate the rest of us


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

ICC Carpentry said:


> Hello I started a project on a reo and took out carpet that was soiled with both human and animal waste. Underneath the carpet was old vinyl tiles like 8"x8" so I started demoing those tiles with a scrapper and a hammer with another employee, we had dust masks, gloves and eye protection, we tore out about 3 rooms of this stuff, now come to find out it might have asbestos in it  so now we have stoped work on the property and I an concerned with how serious this is please any advise of thought is welcome. Thanks again.


Most likely you will be fine. Back when the asbestos scare was a big deal I attended a few OSHA meetings regarding safe asbestos practices.

The only real concrete evidence they had concerning the dangers were related to factory exposed conditions or world war two sanding of naval ship decks.

Otherwise, the evidence was inconclusive as pertains to construction issues. You have to ingest heavy amounts of the asbestos to really get a negative affect. Scraping is less invasive than sanding. Wetting the area is a good safeguard also.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Depends on where you are & who knows about it.

Not very much of a question if it "might" have asbestos.
The adhesive in those old jobs is usually an issue also.
Fines & mitigation can be VERY expensive.
Generally, if done correctly, the disposal isn't a big deal.
If OSHA/EPA/Bldg. Dept. find out it can be a huge deal.

Asbestos abatement involves a plan, a certified abatement contractor, setting up a containment area (negative air, posted etc), properly trained & outfitted workers, a decontamination area, proper disposal, air clearances & documentation proving all the above. 

There is a slight potential for a health risk to you & employees. Generally. if all you have done is scraped it your at lower risk. If you created any dust, as in cut or grind, it could be more serious.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

griz said:


> Depends on where you are & who knows about it.
> 
> Not very much of a question if it "might" have asbestos.
> The adhesive in those old jobs is usually an issue also.
> ...


Good Post!

The bigger concern is always operating within the parameters the governing bodies establish. Your health may be a secondary risk compared to the financial risk dealing with fines, etc...


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## ICC Carpentry (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks again for the quick responses... I am having the tiles/underlayment tested. Generally I keep being told to just wash your clothes shoes and tools. An move forward with the proper codes on asbestos removal. The contaminate place said were were more at risk with the soiled carpets. LoL 
PS keep em comming


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Please don't double post. I deleted your other thread.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

ICC Carpentry said:


> Thanks again for the quick responses... I am having the tiles/underlayment tested. Generally I keep being told to just wash your clothes shoes and tools. An move forward with the proper codes on asbestos removal.
> 
> 
> > The contaminate place said were were more at risk with the soiled carpets. LoL
> ...


I did a "Cat House" one time. Made the mistake of eating a big lunch.!!!

Needles to say, my stomach suffered more than my sinuses or lungs. :laughing:

I would rather remove lead or asbestos than cat carpet. :w00t:


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## Rouerplastering (Sep 6, 2010)

I was in contact with second hand smoke 2 days ago. I thought I was going to keel over.


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## Kevin M. (Feb 28, 2010)

Rouerplastering said:


> I was in contact with second hand smoke 2 days ago. I thought I was going to keel over.


:laughing::laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I ripped out my kitchen and livingroom floor, underneath many layers of flooring were old tiles. Myself and my well educated friends spend hours with flat bars/hammers/roofing shovels ripping those bastard tiles out...inhaling the dust deeply without and regard for out own good.

My neighbor directly across the street walks in (he installs carpet tiles for a living), grabs a beer and looks down "uhh Kev...these are 9x9 asbestos tiles"

Me: :blink:

"Yeah, see when you snap them they release particles" *he walks over to the floor light and breaks one in half* "At work they make us throw bucks of water down on the floor and wear masks and gloves"

Me: :blink:

I learned a valuable lesson that day...pay someone else to replace the damn floor. 

On a side note I can still breath...I think the asbestos thing got way blown out of proportion...its not like I rip up asbestos tiles every day of my life.


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## davitk (Oct 3, 2008)

Asbestos fibers are long and thin and barbed, similar to a fish hook so they can go in to your lungs or stomach but not out... the same way. In fact they can migrate through various organs...

I once worked in a facility where the steamfitters and plumbers had to go for an annual xray to monitor the growth of their asbestosis. They all had it to some degree :sad:

Just thought I'd cheer you up. :thumbup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

What some of you guys don't realize is the potential for liability should you do one of these jobs with out proper abatement. We have some very strict Real Estate disclosure laws in Calif. Should you complete a job, with out proper abatement, and a buyer or renter, or neighbor find out they can file a complaint. If they can establish there was asbestos containing materials present you will be in a world of hurt.  If an air test is done and any residual found you will be liable for proper abatement, fines & everyone's future medical in regards to asbestosis or it's related maladies.


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## Five Arrows (Jan 30, 2010)

*What are you going to do if you if you find out?*

What will you do if you find out that it had asbestos? Imagine yourself on the witness stand. How will you answer truthfully? If you have no training to identify the hazardous item suspect it that is different from having a lab analysis. Will your insurance cover the accidental contamination of the house? It is worth asking the question of your agent hypothetically of course.

Did your contract include any clause for hazardous items? Here is what I have in mine. I probably copied someone else. At least it addresses the issue:

_ 11. Since it is impossible to know what is covered without uncovering it, exposing conditions that change the scope of work will result in a change order. If a hazardous condition is discovered the contractor has the right to test for the presence of hazardous elements. The schedule may be interrupted pending the results of this test without penalty.
12. Unless they are specifically identified in the scope of work the repair of mold, rot, insect damage, structural failure or the removal of hazardous items would result in a change order
_
I'm concerned about three things:
1) not being sued
2) not killing myself in the course of work
3) making a living

So I approach this from those points. Ask a real estate agent to pull up the sellers disclosure form for the last time it sold. If there is asbestos disclosed on the form then you have some ammo:

_ 9. It is agreed that the homeowner will disclose any know condition that may present a danger to any workers. Such as the presence of lead or asbestos, damaged flooring, electrical shock risk, trip hazards etc. _

For a REO to send you into a hazard condition without disclosing it puts you in the drivers seat. Now you have a choice. Hide and try to slip under the radar, or take the fight to their door.

If your insurance would cover you if the job went south I'd take an aggressive position. If not I'd clean it up and slide out.

The Fight:
Contact an abatement company to give you a bid for the removal and cleanup of the house. Add 15% handling, look at your original scope of work and add items to set up full containment for the rest of the job. invoice everything, plastic, tape, hepa vac, suits 2/worker.day, respirators, cartridge changes 1/worker/day. You have your EPA certification???? any house with asbestos has lead. If you have set up your business correctly this could be a windfall for you. If not then it will be someone else's.
Add 10+10 at the end for profit and overhead.

You will also need an asbestos survey and a lead survey before you do anything else on this job.


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## ICC Carpentry (Oct 20, 2010)

I have had the tiles inspected and labs pulled. I have sub contracted out to a professional company to finish the removal and sign off on the certificate before new flooring is put down. My major concern with this whole thing was cleaning up someones elses mistake and the risks of harm to myself and workers.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

I killed a midget outside a bar last weekend. Where should I dispose of the body? Should I sub it out or just wait until it decomposes on it's own?:w00t:


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## MarkWood (Oct 8, 2010)

Kevin M. said:


> I did a "Cat House" one time. Made the mistake of eating a big lunch.!!!
> 
> Needles to say, my stomach suffered more than my sinuses or lungs. :laughing:
> 
> I would rather remove lead or asbestos than cat carpet. :w00t:


I did a cat house one as well we found all kinds of stuff the worse part was when tearing out the old suspended ceiling a peice of aluminum foil fell down which was full of used condoms!!!!!


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## jaymc (Dec 13, 2009)

MarkWood said:


> I did a cat house one as well we found all kinds of stuff the worse part was when tearing out the old suspended ceiling a peice of aluminum foil fell down which was full of used condoms!!!!!


thats just nasty why the hell would you hide them in a ceiling......
under the sofa would be easier.......


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

In Cali, we are allowed to remove up to 100 sq ft of asbestos without it being considered "abatement" with all the proper gear and equipment. Anything over 100 sq ft would require a properly certified abatement company, and all the proper gear and equipment that goes along with it. One of the problems with asbestos is that it takes approx. 35-40 years for any ill effects to become apparent. One of the best things you can do is keep that stuff wet, it's the dry "friable" fibers that are dangerous.


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## covaltleveling (Aug 13, 2010)

8" X 8" tiles are almost always of that type vs. 12" X 12"


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