# Where is the panel best located?



## UpNorth (May 17, 2007)

The basement is a crawlspace accessed via a 2/4 x 6/8 door, and a short ladder. Overhead down there is 46 inches.

Here is a plan of the main floor above that crawlspace.

Where would you put the panel?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Behind the bedroom door.


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't understand the question.
What panel The electric panel? and access panel?


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## Paelectrician (Nov 27, 2009)

Gotta go with sparky on this one


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

Behind the bedroom door will reauire a disconnect and SER cable.
I would put it on the outside bedroom wall and save the expense. Hang a picture or something over it to hide it if necessary.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

My first choice is an exterior combination service entrance/panel. You don't show where the service is. 

Second choice would be behind the laundry closet door. It's a personal thing but I don't like panels in bedrooms.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

naptown CR said:


> Behind the bedroom door will reauire a disconnect and SER cable.
> I would put it on the outside bedroom wall and save the expense. Hang a picture or something over it to hide it if necessary.


Why would SCR be required?


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

My Choice would be behind the Laundry room door. Second would be behind the bedroom door but I don't care for panels in bedrooms either..........


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Why would SCR be required?


I meant SER which is 4 conductors for isolating the ground and neutral as opposed to type SE which would only be three. The panel will be more than 5' from the entrance point into the building at the location shown behind the bedroom door.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

naptown CR said:


> I meant SER which is 4 conductors for isolating the ground and neutral as opposed to type SE which would only be three. The panel will be more than 5' from the entrance point into the building at the location shown behind the bedroom door.


Could you not use EMT, or rigid, or PVC, or IMC, or MC, or AC............?:shifty:

Besides, the 5' you refer to is a POCO rule, not an NEC one.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

naptown CR said:


> I don't understand the question.
> What panel The electric panel? and access panel?


What forum is this. :whistling


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

This is an active thread on the JLC board as well.

IMO there would be no way to get the proper 36" clearance anywhere in the laundry room. 
Also, many inspectors do not allow panels behind door because the proper clearances cannot be maintained.

An outside disconnect would be required if the panel were more than 5-6 feet inside the structure. This is in NYS.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

thom said:


> My first choice is an exterior combination service entrance/panel. You don't show where the service is.


We do not do outside panels in NY. :no:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> .........Also, many inspectors do not allow panels behind door because the proper clearances cannot be maintained...........


You can't close doors in NYS?


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Think about it. Clearances must be _maintained._ This is why something a simple as a pile of boxes or other storage in front of a panel is a violation. 

How can you maintain the clearance if the door can be opened? A lock? 
Sure, some inspectors do allow it, but some don't either.


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Could you not use EMT, or rigid, or PVC, or IMC, or MC, or AC............?:shifty:
> 
> Besides, the 5' you refer to is a POCO rule, not an NEC one.


Yes you could but again inflating the cost of the service SER would be the least costly easiest solution provided it met local requirements. It would not around Chicago
I do not have a code book in front of me but I strongly believe that the 5 foot rule is a NEC requirement and not just a POCO rule.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

naptown CR said:


> I do not have a code book in front of me but I strongly believe that the 5 foot rule is a NEC requirement and not just a POCO rule.


It is not in the NEC. A specific distance is NOT mentioned.

_*230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location.* The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors._


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> It is not in the NEC. A specific distance is NOT mentioned.
> 
> _*230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location.* The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors._


My point was Behind the bedroom door or behind the laundry room door would require a service disconnect either outside by the meter or just inside at the point of entrance. And in that case the panel would be treated the same as a sub panel. Correct?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Speedy Petey said:


> _*230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location.* The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside *nearest the point of entrance* of the service conductors._


Aye, there's the rub. You can generally expect the point of entrance to be an outside wall, no?


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## UpNorth (May 17, 2007)

*Let's make this a little easier*

Find the right place to put the main panel, using only the floor plan shown here. You have never seen the other plans, and this is all that is available.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

thom said:


> You still can't put the panel there. In the picture without the W/D drawn in, there is no call-out on the room, thus you cannot put the panel in that room at all because without a call-out it can be considered a closet.


 
And what's wrong with a panel in a closet?


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

maybe you're examiners look at things differently. 

In a closet, we cannot install a light without showing the detailing of how the closet is laid out and used. Then, we must show where the light is installed to make it compliant with code. Without lighting, we can't install a panel. 

In reality, the plans as shown would be kicked back. Without detailing that room, the plans are not acceptable as drawn, no permit would be provided, the place would not be built, and there would be no need for an electrical service. 

The real problem with all the drawings is they are all lacking in adequate detail. Without full drawings there are numerous unanswered questions.


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

I would put it in the laundry room and if there wasn't room without putting it behind the door would consider switching out the door to a high quality pocket door to eliminate that issue.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Rio said:


> I would put it in the laundry room and if there wasn't room without putting it behind the door would consider switching out the door to a high quality pocket door to eliminate that issue.


 
Without scaling it off, I'd say there's not enough wall space for a pocket door unless the bedroom closet is recuded in size, or the laundry door itself is made smaller.

Besides, a panel behind a swinging door is not a Code violation.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

thom said:


> You still can't put the panel there. In the picture without the W/D drawn in, there is no call-out on the room, thus you cannot put the panel in that room at all because without a call-out it can be considered a closet.


What is a "call out".

_Considered_?? So, it can be considered a closet? How does that automatically make it a "clothes closet"?


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

thom said:


> maybe you're examiners look at things differently.
> 
> In a closet, we cannot install a light without showing the detailing of how the closet is laid out and used. Then, we must show where the light is installed to make it compliant with code. Without lighting, we can't install a panel.
> 
> ...


Wow. I sure am glad I don't live around you. :no: :blink:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> What is a "call out".
> 
> _Considered_?? So, it can be considered a closet? How does that automatically make it a "clothes closet"?


I would be more inclined to call it an Electrical Closet. :w00t:


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## nolatigabait (Aug 14, 2008)

JohnJ0906 said:


> 230.70(A)(2) for service disconnect. (May not apply in this situation)
> 240.24(E)


I was joking about the bathroom. Sheesh.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

id put it in laundry room to the right of washer/dryer . should be close enough to outside meter where you could pipe it through crawl space and up wall without extra disconect


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## stars13bars2 (Feb 13, 2005)

I would put it at floor level in the clothes closet, like soooo many that I have to work on. You must first remove about a half ton of debris before you can even see it. That said, if there isn't plenty of room for it in a laundry room etc..., behind a door is an excellent location.


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## Zinsco (Oct 14, 2009)

What's up with this effort to hide the panel? Be proud of your work, make your panel the central focus of the entire house. Put it smack dab in the living room wall right next to the flat panel TV. Paint the cover safety orange and aim a flood light on it. That's how I roll...


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