# Attaching Ledger/Ridge Thru Brick



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Hey guys, we are starting a porch project tomorrow and I'll throw up a few pictures of the plans even though it might not be needed.

We have a 2x10 ledger/ridge board that needs to be attached to the house. This is a first for us on a house with a brick veneer and I've been doing some reading and haven't come up with a conclusion of how to handle it.

As I understand it, we can't just bolt thru the veneer which I had assumed.

So our options as best as I know would be to use support posts underneath or learn how to detail it with the brick.

When dealing with siding we would remove siding, attach the ledger/ridge, flash, and call it a day. Does this mean that we need to remove brick, block out the wall (how?) to the face of the brick and then attach the ledger/ridge to that?

This would take a lot of time and money, but I'm assuming if we're attaching to the house, that's what has to happen?

I'm sure some of you have dealt with this before, I'd love some input. Thanks.


----------



## dutchroots2 (Sep 20, 2016)

Yeah, code book specifically says not to attach to brick. I would just throw a couple posts in the corners, double up the back ledger and notch them into the posts or rest them on top. Depend on what's below there, though. Just dirt?


----------



## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

Whataa..you..know...you're in VA


http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/decks/


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

dutchroots2 said:


> Yeah, code book specifically says not to attach to brick. I would just throw a couple posts in the corners, double up the back ledger and notch them into the posts or rest them on top. Depend on what's below there, though. Just dirt?


It's a 4" concrete slab at grade there. I'm thinking posts it is.



We Fix Houses said:


> Whataa..you..know...you're in VA
> 
> 
> http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/decks/



Well, looks like the only way to deal with that is with an engineer then. Hopefully the HO is good with a few posts in the corner...


----------



## CPMKW (Apr 28, 2014)

Not sure about your code (briefly clicked the link but lost interest) but where I am code requires that you don't attach to brick veneer be you can bolt through it.

In other words, you can lag to studs or rim joists through brick veneer.

It can be a pain to find the layout, but it is doable.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

You're going to rest the posts on the concrete pad ?

Why do you need an eng ? Cut the corners out, dig to the frost line, fill with concrete.


----------



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

how far down below the brick until the concrete foundation wall begins? May be able to attach your board down a little lower to carry the weight. 

putting the posts on the 4" slab sounds nice, but what if the slab was doweled into the house's foundation or what if it's a new build where settling might occur? I would rather attach to the foundation wall if possible or dig a new footing for the posts. size and budget are a consideration.


----------



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

for those who may not be familiar, there is an air space between the wall sheathing and brick. therefore, when you tighten the bolts on the ledger board it may pull the brickwork in.


----------



## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

72chevy4x4 said:


> how far down below the brick until the concrete foundation wall begins? May be able to attach your board down a little lower to carry the weight.
> 
> putting the posts on the 4" slab sounds nice, but what if the slab was doweled into the house's foundation or what if it's a new build where settling might occur? I would rather attach to the foundation wall if possible or dig a new footing for the posts. size and budget are a consideration.



I can't imagine the HO will want 2steps down to deck surface.


----------



## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

CPMKW said:


> Not sure about your code (briefly clicked the link but lost interest) but where I am code requires that you don't attach to brick veneer be you can bolt through it.
> 
> In other words, you can lag to studs or rim joists through brick veneer.
> 
> ...


Doing this in many places will get approved by the building department if an architect attaches his name to it because many think that when you do that the rim-joist will carry the weight of the deck.

But you have to keep in mind that between the deck ledger and the house rim-joist there is a good amount of space, so when the deck will be loaded and before the rim-joist picks up the load, the loading will be on the veneer itself.

It can be done... but if you plan to take this route, you definitely need a structural engineer to design a structural detail, because many things must be taken into consideration, i.e bolt spacing and bolt size and type of connection (lag bolts cannot be used), lateral and stress load calculations, etc. especially under window and door openings... without taking everything into consideration you taking a chance for brick failure simply because brick veneer is designed to support only its own weight and nothing else.


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

We Fix Houses said:


> You're going to rest the posts on the concrete pad ?
> 
> Why do you need an eng ? Cut the corners out, dig to the frost line, fill with concrete.




No. We will need to cut out the slab and dig and pour concrete. I was just saying there was a slab since the other guy asked if it was dirt underneath.

I was saying engineer in regards to actually attaching the ridge board to the house.

I wasn't involved in the design of this. But when I see the plans show nothing against the house for supporting the ridge for the roof and ledger for the deck, and I know it's a brick veneer, I have to figure out what to do.

I'll talk with the HO today about the posts.


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

greg24k said:


> Doing this in many places will get approved by the building department if an architect attaches his name to it because many think that when you do that the rim-joist will carry the weight of the deck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This was my assumption. Thanks for confirming.

It gets tricky as far as supporting it free standing because of the stairs down into the basement. Gonna have to call pops... (boss, designer)


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

What I want to do is cut the slab in the corner and put a post there to support the deck and roof.

Then put a post on the brick stair wall to support just the deck.

The stairwell is the tricky part. If you look close you can see there is a drain down there. I assume we will need to cut the slab in the bottom and dig and have a footing to set a post on that will support the corner of the deck as well as the roof.

We have scheduled a consultation with an inspector before proceeding too much farther.


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

So once I was on site this morning I remembered that this house is a double brick wall with furring strips to attach the plaster to on the inside.

Does this mean it's a structural brick wall and we can epoxy anchor into it for attachment?

We still have an inspector coming out but I'm curious what you guys think.


----------



## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

What if you cut brick under the door (you not going with the deck over the basement door anyway and add metal ledger bracket (see the picture below) to extend the ledger past the brick and cantilever the ledger on the left and run your joist. Just be sure to flash the bottom of the ledger and cap it over the brick. That can work out real nice.


----------



## XJCraver (Dec 21, 2010)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So once I was on site this morning I remembered that this house is a double brick wall with furring strips to attach the plaster to on the inside.
> 
> Does this mean it's a structural brick wall and we can epoxy anchor into it for attachment?
> 
> We still have an inspector coming out but I'm curious what you guys think.




Yes.


----------



## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

Since it is all brick, looks like you can through bolt a min 3x3 - 4x4 steel angle to the wall. To the left of the door --- take away a few brick and let in that end of the angle -- bearing 3" on the brick. (if that is HO house) This is so you don't have to bolt through the area above the door.


----------



## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

The usual issue with single wythe brick is that it relatively weak in tension, especially near the top of walls that haven't many courses above them to create a "confined" condition, such as the brick below the patio door(s)...

A sleeve (Stainless/galvanized) around the through
(through both wythes of masonry, with an angle iron "washer" if their is no rim joist attaching the bolts to the nearest existing inside floor joist for tension strength) 
bolts would prevent the brick from being crushed/busted loose from the bedjoints, when the bolts are snugged up.

In this particular plan there is no need for allowing for large tension loads as a typical deck would demand as it is "trapped" on three sides, if the deck joists are properly blocked in the center of the floor. If the left and right (from plan views) joists are securely fastened they would reduce the tension load on the center joist to a much smaller #......

I'd use just 2 of 2" x 12" for the beams, and attach a ledger board instead of "letting them in" the post reducing it strength considerably. One beam board to the house side the other to the outside further increasing the rigidity of the deck at Zero cost....

A oversized (width wise) ledger board allows the bolts to spread out further, reducing the chance of masonry damage, For a few hundred dollars a mason could create a korbeled ledge within shimming distance of the perimeter joist...:thumbup:

FYI : The wall adjacent to the basement door is a de facto frost footing, thus a treated pilaster fasten to the wall above it would provide a very stout unmoving bearing point.

Above the legacy basement door would be a very good spot to up sell a rain diverter to lower the amount of water running under the door slab.


----------



## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So once I was on site this morning I remembered that this house is a double brick wall with furring strips to attach the plaster to on the inside.
> 
> Does this mean it's a structural brick wall and we can epoxy anchor into it for attachment?
> 
> We still have an inspector coming out but I'm curious what you guys think.




That is definitely a solid masonry building, every seventh course is a header course which ties the two walls together, a whole different scenario than a brick veneer because those walls are structural 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

greg24k said:


> What if you cut brick under the door (you not going with the deck over the basement door anyway and add metal ledger bracket (see the picture below) to extend the ledger past the brick and cantilever the ledger on the left and run your joist. Just be sure to flash the bottom of the ledger and cap it over the brick. That can work out real nice.


So I've read this a few times... I'm not getting it. :no:

There is in fact a bump out portion going over the basement door because the client wants the out swing double doors to open all the way and not hit a railing.

I think I understand how the ledger bracket would work, but since it's a structural brick wall, removing the brick leaves me looking into the basement so maybe this idea was if it was a veneer?

I also don't understand what you mean about extending the ledger past the brick and cantilevering it. So basically... I'm lost. :laughing:

Feel free to clarify or not.


----------

