# Satellite roof measuring



## Ed the Roofer

Some vendors have been much easier to deal with and that will be something to consider when I make my final analysis, which I must remind you all, will wind up being an evolving referral list, since this technology is becoming so prevalent and with more and more of them entering the field of competition, the price levels will automatically come down, as newer software tweaks are made to render the useage to becoming completely SAAS available, with no other human intervention from the company offering the product.

Some vendors of various other types of products that I have thoroughly tested and reported on have alerted me that their sales and recognition has risen dramatically, precisely due to the commentaries I have made and referred to them.

I forsee that someday soon, an organization that I know about, that is in the beta development stage, will have access to all of the proven products on the market, with substantial group discouts available, due to the sheer volume of appropriate demographically selected contractor candidates available to utilize the resources affiliated with the group.



Here are a few of the MANY services that I have handy to list here right now for others to compare also.

There are about 40-50 other sites that I did not list yet.

*Does anyone have any sites to add to my list for any of the categories?*

Ed



*Sites That Offer A Paid Service:*

https://www.roofers411.com/

http://www.precigeo.com/Roof/Pricing/tabid/984/Default.aspx

http://www.geoestimator.com/

http://www.skytekimaging.com/

http://skyscopeusa.com/ website not up right now.
Now it is: http://skyscopeinternational.com/ Registered 2-10-09

http://www.eagleview.com/

http://www.pictometry.com/about_us/faqs.shtml

https://www.terraserver.com/purchases/subscribe_new.asp

http://www.mapcruzin.com/satellite-aerial-photos-maps/

http://www.assurecalc.com/

http://www.goilawn.com/ Not for roofs, but does the same tasks.

http://www.roofscanir.com/ InfraRed Roof Moisture Content Mapping. I am unsure if they provide measurements though.

http://www.skyroofimages.us/ New URL for service just found on 6-16-09



*Free Ones To Calculate For Yourself:*

http://maps.live.com/

http://vn4.cs.fiu.edu/cgi-bin/tflaunch.cgi?

http://atlas.freshlogicstudios.com/

http://earth.google.com/enterprise/earth_pro.html


*Sites with relevant information about the technology:*

http://www.terraserver.com/view.asp...32616&mpp=0.75&pic=-1&prov=-1&stac=-1&styp=AD

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=free+accurate+satellite+and+aerial+images

http://www.professionalroofing.net/images/0808_38-45.pdf

http://www.rooflogic.com/Pages/Products/Satellite/Default.aspx

http://imageatlas.digitalglobe.com/ia-webapp/

http://www.usgsquads.com/

http://www.geodetic.com/products.htm

http://www.geodetic.com/Whatis.htm

http://www.jesseshunting.com/site/aerial.html

http://www.landsat.com/aerial.html


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## JDodson

*Freebies for comparison!*

A representative from Roofer411 will be attempting to contact Ed to offer the sample reports for comparision. 

The main thing about Roofers411 is that it is a company built by roofers for roofers. We are not trying to cater to large insurance companies or even super large commercial roofers. Our reports are personally generated, not automatically generated by some elaborate software. We account for pitch! - you don't have to know that already to use us. Those working for us did not apply...they were hand selected, all having roofing experinece.


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## Ed the Roofer

Since my PM box is full and I won't be sorting through them and deleting any until this coming weekend, my e-mail address is [email protected].

I know of another company out there, but you have to be a member of their organization that gets insurance leads, that supplies the views for $5.00 each.

I figure a good price point for this type of service once it is automated or allows for the authorized user to take control of the measuring features, would initially be around $20.00 and eventually working it's way backwards down to around $10.00 each, due to Economy Of Volume. 

Ed


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## [email protected]

Skyscope's new website is skyscopeinternational dot com (no URL's with under 15 posts)
There is one other paid service we know of called Connect Point, their website is assurecalc dot com

I'm not spamming, I'm here to answer questions. I'm not an EagleView salesperson. I've been working for EagleView for over a year, I started off with Dave Carlson (our founder who is a 2nd generation roofer) as a measuring technician. That's right we manually measure every single report that is ordered. Additionally each report is reviewed again by our most experienced techs for quality assurance. We work very hard to provide you with the most accurate report possible.

Correct, as you can see I've never posted in this forum before. I'm just trying to reach out to our potential (and current) client base to answer questions and look for suggestions. 

The last point I would like to make is that we are not like some of these other companies who come on these forums posing as roofers "who use this or that measuring service". I'm coming to you up front and honestly. I'm here for your feedback, because the fact is we can't get any better, unless we know what your looking for. If you can respect that and you're interested to hear more let me know with your questions and concerns. If you'd rather the vendors stay out of the discussions that's fine. Let me know and I'll quietly pipe down.


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## msteinhoff

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## Ed the Roofer

[email protected] said:


> *Skyscope's new website is skyscopeinternational dot com* (no URL's with under 15 posts)
> 
> 
> There is one other paid service we know of called Connect Point, their website is assurecalc dot com


Just as an FYI, I have been informaed that the SkyScopeInternational.com website is NOT affiliated with SkyScopeUSA.com

Th individual in the contact information is a FORMER employee of SkyScopeInternational.

Let the Legal Cease and Desist Fight begin.

Ed


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## [email protected]

Thats interesting, they have Skyscope USA plastered all over their site.

On the other hand they also claim to use a system "designed" from EagleView so who knows.


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## Ed the Roofer

Well, that is not for me to judge, just report from credible sources.

It would seem as if there will be many trademark, copyright and patent objections to be made in this new technological industry.

It would seem familiar to the objection that EagleView's Legal Representatives made against a party from Texas mid last summer, regarding the outsourcing site that some one made innuendo about trying to Reverse Engineer the EagleView model.

Ed


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## MrRoofer

While I have not been using a paid satellite service for takeoffs, I have been using google earth in conjunction with roofcad...with mixed results. I can't imagine the other satellites fare much differently.

The number one issue with satellite imagery...TREES...aparently satellites cannot see through them very well.

The other issue I find is clarity...maybe cuz Google is free :cheesygri.

I find if the roof has brown shingles for example, it tends to blend in with the brown grass fairly well (not much green grass anymore hah), making it very difficult to determine where the roof ends.

Most residential stuff here is a typically a single storey bungalow with detached garage. I find you have to be reasonably lucky to get the thing bang on, which, if you are quoting single car garages and bungalows, you need to be.

Now when it comes to large scale, high roofs, this also works fairly well. With steep stuff I am still somewhat reserved however, the multiplier they (roofcad) use seems to be somewhat general the steeper it gets, which in turn has a large effect on final quantity. I can't imagine a lot of these satellite apps fare a lot better with steeper stuff...it's the nature of the beast I think.

The other thing with roofcad is I can't seem to find where it will break out different areas, it just gives me one lump sum (for all pitches) area.


I think in the long haul this thing will work well, but it's going to take some time (being the one guy that has to do everything leaves little time to hone things), but should prove very valuable I think with some of the larger highrise and condominium reroof stuff we do. I'd much rather get my measurements via point and click than tape measure, now that I've been doing it for awhile, but I think in the meantime, the single family dwellings will recieve the full meaure :thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

MrRoofer,

It's true measuring houses isn't always easy. A number of things can get in the way (trees, blurry images, etc) but we've been measuring roofs by aerial images for quite some time now, and we're very accurate. In some cases we won't measure the roofs if there is too much tree coverage, because then we can't verify our accuracy and that's one of our biggest selling points.

We actually use 5 different images to calculate the area of a given roof. The "top down" image and 4 oblique views (N,S,E,W). With the oblique views we accurately determine the pitch and the total square is calculated with the pitch accounted for. We've been mastering our process for over two years now (open for business just over one year), and we pretty much have it down to a science. Almost all of our reports are accurate within 0-3% of total square footage (waste not included), and we guarantee a report will never be off by more than 5% or we will not charge you for the report. Insurance companies trust us (and many use us), and giving most adjusters an "EagleView" ends any disputes over total square.

We're 3rd party tested and approved, we're unbiased, and we're extremely accurate. Sorry I know this sounds like a sales pitch but it's the truth and I believe fully in our product. Look I know a lot of you guys out there use some of these web tools to measure your roofs and that's fine. I'm not hear to change your mind. I just want to share information with those of you who don't always have to get to all your estimates, who would like to provide a more accurate and more professional presentation to the homeowner to close more sales, and who don't want to argue with Independant Adjusters anymore over how much material you used to cover a roof.

So MrRoofer if your interested I'd be willing to measure a roof for you to show you just how accurate and professional our reports really are. Just shoot me an email will.hieronymus @ eagleview.com

Thanks for listening to me ramble 

-Will


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## MrRoofer

Hey Will, thanks for your response, I will have to take you up on your offer at some point, right now with the snow melted, spring is insane, so I will have to get back to you! I can think of a number of applications for us that this service would indeed be the best approach...how are your pilots at finding random ski huts in remote mountain areas?? Satellite images from 1 1/2 km away are entirely uselsess as opposed to the 25m shots we get in city.


I think it has to be pointed out there is a big difference here between the _satellite_ and _aerial_ methodolgy in discussion here with the various different measuring systems available. I would tend to agree even without a full on sample test having perused your site your system should be fairly accurate.

Personally we chose RoofCAD not because it provides us measurements (a site visit is required for your own 'scale') but because of the flexibility of the program itself. I am learning complicated satellite images are not really it's best use, far from it (however, having budgeted the software into our first project's profit margin, it has already paid for itself, and from here on out all satellite measurements are free). It offers the ability to not only produce takeoffs from satellite, but also allows us to punch in our own site measurements rendering takeoffs and our own set of colourful roofplans (subs like pretty pictures it seems), and lastly we can render takeoffs from the roll up digitizer, digitally reproducing blueprints in seconds and generating a takeoff at the same time. There is certainly a learning curve that goes with it, and we have yet to fully realize and work into its full potential to our operation, but it will come in time (which with a small staff we are in short supply!)

Plus it is Canadian :cheesygri. 

Doug at rooflogic has been very helpful and accomodating, even with the dumbest of questions (honestly I would probably tear my hair out being the help support guy for unrully computer illiterate roofer types :laughing. No I don't work for them, but I do believe that what they have is a great tool. Kinda like the Hitachi NV45AB2, if you knowhatImean. I don't have a problem sharing my thoughts on it either, as long as people are aware it is my opinion, biased as it may be.


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## msteinhoff

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## [email protected]

Hey Matt,

Do you do a satellite measurement blog?


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## msteinhoff

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## SLSTech

Looks like this field is expanding & spreading out - I just got an email from www. goilawn .com targeting landscapers & lawn maintenance (lose the space if you wish to visit)

Now if we can get a company that does siding measurments & setback diagrams


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## Ed the Roofer

SLSTech said:


> Looks like this field is expanding & spreading out - I just got an email from www. goilawn .com targeting landscapers & lawn maintenance (lose the space if you wish to visit)
> 
> *Now if we can get a company that does siding measurments & setback diagrams*


You can use www.iPhotoMeasure.com for on site photos to download and do the measurements on your computer at your office later on.

Ed


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## Roof Info

I have recently trialed RoofCAD & the Digitizer from the RoofLogic people. First impressions were very good, although there is this annoying flicker of the diagram when you zoom/reposition it (not sure what version the trial was and if it has been fixed in the latest version that came out this month). Outside of that, the software is actually pretty damn phenomenal. 

The Digitizer software, which MrRoofer mentioned above, is seperate from RoofCAD. Both can be used seperately or together. Digitizer is the component to easily create diagrams from satellite/aerial photos, paper/electronic plans. RoofCAD is used for _free-handing_ it and inserting descriptive labels, images, and annotations to the diagram. Both components generate take-off reports.

One thing I am looking forward to by RoofLogic is their addition of Mobile GPS to their modules. This will allow you to interact with your RoofCAD drawings while on the roof. Imagine measuring two points on the roof with your handheld device and auto-rescale the entire drawing, or plot objects (skylights, drains, vents, etc.) with ease.

RoofCAD is not too pricey, while the Digitizer commands a $2000 tag. The software can be subscribed to on a monthly basis now for a reasonable charge (see roofcad.com for more info). They did this in acknowledgement of the economic situation we are in. 

I do believe many, if not all, services such as EagleView, Roofers411, GeoEstimator, etc use Pictometry service software in combination with their own CAD software (like RoofCAD) to generate the reports. Without Pictometry, they cannot get the heights/lengths required to make the slope measurements. 

In general, satellite imagery is not there yet, unless you have a dedicated spy satellite. Any online service worth their salt will be using the Pictometry aerial photos which offer 40 degree angle views from the N,E,W,S as well as the overhead view. The aerial photos offer more detail per pixel and fairly accurate measurements on the whole (+/- 3% ???).

Still, even with a regular GoogleEarth satellite image, one could get the proportional aspects of the diagram correct enough. You can add in any identifiable components and take the rough sketch when you make your call. After visiting the roof, one only need to take one edge measurement and the entire drawing can be automatically rescaled with just one click.


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## msteinhoff

*Satellite/Aerial Just as Accurate as Hand Measuring*

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## Roof Info

Hey Matt, I would agree that the "services" are probably the right solution for a majority of the contractors out there. One reason we were looking at RoofCAD, however, was for other modules in the RoofLogic suite of apps (such as the Asset Manager). I was pleasingly surprised by its ease of use. 



msteinhoff said:


> Me thinks you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
> 
> Google Earth is good enough but a personal spy satellite isn't?


What I meant to say is that the public satellite detail is not there yet. Spy satellites are of higher resolution. And, if you believe everything you see on 24 and what they are capable of, they can read license plate numbers off of vehicles travelling at 60 mph.  

I probably should of used the term 'aspect ratio' as opposed to 'proportional'. If a roof is 3 units wide by 2.8 units long ... one only need measure one eave of the roof to determine the actual scale. 

Services such as GoogleEarth use a variety of sources to produce their image data. Each image from a single source (some aerial, some satellite) may not be of the same resolution or distance, thereby making standard measurements more difficult to ascertain across the field. Accuracy cannot be guaranteed.

Pictometry is unique, in that, they own their own fleet of 50 Cessna's that continually cruise the skies at certain altitudes using the same cameras and measurement techniques, thereby giving them an efficient method of determining more precise measurements.

In my opinion, I think mistakenly stating that satellites are responsible for remote rooftop measurements is not entirely true. It is important for the consumer of the services to understand the differences between the two, for accuracy sake.


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## msteinhoff

*The Military Can Measure My Roof Any Day*

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## Roof Info

You mentioned a few other 'big players' besides Pictometry. Who are they?

And yeppers, if they can guide a missile into an 18-inch chimney ... it is good enough for measuring roofs!


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## msteinhoff

Roof Info said:


> You mentioned a few other 'big players' besides Pictometry. Who are they?


Digital Globe is a good source if they have your area covered. TerraServer once did its own images but, as of March 2009, they are using Pictometry's images.

When you get down to the regional or county level, you'd be surprised at the quality of images provided by various municipalities. In some cases, the images supplied by county government is better than what you get from Pictometry.

Cheers,
Matt


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## Broken_Roofer

I'm not sure if this has already been covered in the thread; however, Geo Estimator is another company doing satellite based imaging and estimating, they seem to be only one to two feet off our on-site measurements. How they differ from EagleView is they require you to field verify one edge of the roof and all pitches to ensure accuracy in their dimensions. Once you field verify the dimension and pitches, you manually edit the template they provide you, generate the report, and voila! It is incredidlby simple to use.

EagleView is good and accurate as well, our only issue was they were unable to process a few homes due to trees being near the home, whereas Geo Estimator didn't have issues with it. That's not to say that Geo Estimator won't come back to use and say we can't process this home, they aren't all perfect, that's for sure.

We've found that using Pictometry for steep sloped roofs is a jumbled mess, so now we use it for low slope applications only and it is proving to be quite a handy tool for those guys.

Hope this helps a few guys out there.


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## Ed the Roofer

I just found this on one of GEO's Blog Sites:

I must admit, they are cornering the market for various URL's that are related to this technology.

Ed



*GeoEstimator: Quick, Accurate, Less than $50 a Roof*


Ed the Roofer with Right Way Roofing Company reported on Contractor Talk that there are more than 50 companies that provide roof measurements or the tools to do your own satellite or aerial roof measurements.
We at MeasureRoof.com, for sure, haven’t tried all of them. We have, however, tried the major players. At this time, the only one we can recommend without hesitation is *GeoEstimator*. They hit the sweet spot on price (most roofs cost between $30 and $50), have a quick turn-around time and their reports are at least as accurate as our regular estimators. You can’t beat that.







.


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## Ed the Roofer

Ed the Roofer said:


> Some vendors have been much easier to deal with and that will be something to consider when I make my final analysis, which I must remind you all, will wind up being an evolving referral list, since this technology is becoming so prevalent and with more and more of them entering the field of competition, the price levels will automatically come down, as newer software tweaks are made to render the useage to becoming completely SAAS available, with no other human intervention from the company offering the product.
> 
> Some vendors of various other types of products that I have thoroughly tested and reported on have alerted me that their sales and recognition has risen dramatically, precisely due to the commentaries I have made and referred to them.
> 
> I forsee that someday soon, an organization that I know about, that is in the beta development stage, will have access to all of the proven products on the market, with substantial group discouts available, due to the sheer volume of appropriate demographically selected contractor candidates available to utilize the resources affiliated with the group.
> 
> 
> 
> Here are a few of the MANY services that I have handy to list here right now for others to compare also.
> 
> There are about 40-50 other sites that I did not list yet.
> 
> *Does anyone have any sites to add to my list for any of the categories?*
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> *Sites That Offer A Paid Service:*
> 
> https://www.roofers411.com/
> 
> http://www.precigeo.com/Roof/Pricing/tabid/984/Default.aspx
> 
> http://www.geoestimator.com/
> 
> http://www.skytekimaging.com/
> 
> http://skyscopeusa.com/ website not up right now.
> Now it is: http://skyscopeinternational.com/ Registered 2-10-09
> 
> http://www.eagleview.com/
> 
> http://www.pictometry.com/about_us/faqs.shtml
> 
> https://www.terraserver.com/purchases/subscribe_new.asp
> 
> http://www.mapcruzin.com/satellite-aerial-photos-maps/
> 
> http://www.assurecalc.com/
> 
> *New Sites Added Via Edit:*
> 
> http://www.goilawn.com/ Not for roofs, but does the same tasks.
> 
> http://www.roofscanir.com/ InfraRed Roof Moisture Content Mapping. I am unsure if they provide measurements though.
> 
> http://www.skyroofimages.us/ New URL for service just found on 6-16-09
> 
> 
> 
> *Free Ones To Calculate For Yourself:*
> 
> http://maps.live.com/
> 
> http://vn4.cs.fiu.edu/cgi-bin/tflaunch.cgi?
> 
> http://atlas.freshlogicstudios.com/
> 
> http://earth.google.com/enterprise/earth_pro.html
> 
> 
> *Sites with relevant information about the technology:*
> 
> http://www.terraserver.com/view.asp...32616&mpp=0.75&pic=-1&prov=-1&stac=-1&styp=AD
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=free+accurate+satellite+and+aerial+images
> 
> http://www.professionalroofing.net/images/0808_38-45.pdf
> 
> http://www.rooflogic.com/Pages/Products/Satellite/Default.aspx
> 
> http://imageatlas.digitalglobe.com/ia-webapp/
> 
> http://www.usgsquads.com/
> 
> http://www.geodetic.com/products.htm
> 
> http://www.geodetic.com/Whatis.htm
> 
> http://www.jesseshunting.com/site/aerial.html
> 
> http://www.landsat.com/aerial.html


 
I just wanted to update this thread and state that 3 more vendors have been added to the end of the List for the Paid For Sites List.

Ed


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## msteinhoff

*Online Identity and Branding*

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## Ed the Roofer

If you Google "Roof Measurement Services" and/or add in the word, aerial or satellite before the word roof, and go about 15-20 pages deep into the search, you will be able to see the similarities in the GEOestimator landing pages set up as blogs comparing 3 vendors but only mentioning GEO as the winner of the results.

It is pretty obvious after you see them all in the same style and definitely a sharp marketing strategy to corner the keyword and URL searches for various names unique to that new technological field of vendors.

As far as the article for review, I have several of the vendors being compliant with the requests for analyzing several same homes to see if they each get different results.

I will need to get more feedback for an accurate analysis of which one is better at customer service and which ones offer additional uses for different trades and also for the pricing points and price break levels.

The one for $5.00 per roof, when purchased 100 at a time so far, seems to offer close enough results as the ones for $78.00 per roof to make them the thrifty conscious winner, but is that enough to keep them viable.

One thing that I can say, based on a 2 pretty good sized complex roof designs, is that the total square counts are extremely lacking from my on top of roof measurements, so I will go back and verify the accuracy again, just to double check who is more close to correct.

Example: Current job in progress is 4,300 square foot from field measurements, plus hip, ridge, valley and starter accessories, which came out on the report as 2,754 square feet and also missed the bump out windows and bottom decorative corner returns, which I would have suspected.

But, the difference between 27 1/2 squares to 43 squares is enough to lose your azz on a job, significantly.

Ed


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## [email protected]

msteinhoff said:


> I host just such a blog along with several others. That is what lead me to these forums. The technology behind the measurements is fascinating. Like I said earlier, this seems like a technology and service that will be taken for granted in a couple years.


Msteinhoff, your saying you don't know which blogs Ed is referring to?


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## Ed the Roofer

msteinhoff said:


> The playing field is electronic now days. You should know that as well as anyone.
> 
> *You bought EdTheRoofer.com on Friday.*
> 
> I can't wait to see what you do with your site. Did you see that Ed the Roofer is now a dictionary entry? You are electronically famous! Hold tight of your brand before it develops a life of its own.
> Cheers,
> Matt


No, I just checked on that Dot Com and see that someone else purchased my UserName Dot Com and has it parked at GoDaddy.

Funny on the urban dictionary reference.

I ordered reports on 2 homes that we already measured, on from on the roof and the other from the original blueprints because the angles were so complicated. I am going to re-visit those calculations and see how they came out versus our measurements and actual material ordered and used.

Will, is your company interested in providing measurements for the 2 jobs also? One is already roofed and the other will be under way in about 2 weeks.

Contact me either through my website Contact Us or my regular e-mail at: [email protected] please.

Since I have both of these measured and one of them already roofed, it should prove for a good comparison. I plan on using these 2 homes for any other company interested also.

Ed


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## msteinhoff

Ed the Roofer said:


> No, I just checked on that Dot Com and see that someone else purchased my UserName Dot Com and has it parked at GoDaddy.


You need to put a stop to that. 'Ed the Roofer' is your brand. You should file a complaint and see if you can claim the domain.

Cheers,
Matt


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## Ed the Roofer

msteinhoff said:


> You need to put a stop to that. 'Ed the Roofer' is your brand. You should file a complaint and see if you can claim the domain.
> 
> Cheers,
> Matt


As crappy as it sounds, I was eventually going to register the mane, but I only buy domain names with 10 year registrations, so I put it off. There are about 50-70 other domain names I am gathering up also, but only one or a few at a time.

Could my user name actually be considered a "Brand Name" for purposes of forcing the issue to get the name sold back to me?

Would the registering company actually do anything about it?

I figured it was my fault for lingering so long, "snooze you lose, type of thing.

I was just hoping that is was someone who was actually buying it, just to save it for me, so that it could be resold when requested.

Any idea on who it was? Registrant was unknown but there was a contact name on the site.

Ed


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## msteinhoff

Ed the Roofer said:


> As crappy as it sounds, I was eventually going to register


I know the feeling. I was a year late to the party and ended up with steinhoff.net instead of steinhoff.com. I should have bought steinhoff.org at the same time but didn't want to spend the $35. Oh well, water under the bridge.



Ed the Roofer said:


> I only buy domain names with 10 year registrations,


Unless I need to squeeze every last bit of page rank out of a domain, I just buy 'em a year at a time and set them to auto-renew. I don't see the point in parting with cash until I absolutely have to.



Ed the Roofer said:


> Could my user name actually be considered a "Brand Name" for purposes of forcing the issue to get the name sold back to me?


It depends on how much the domain's owner is willing to fight. Given your huge internet footprint and clearly established identity, I'd say you have a 50:50 chance if the owner is just a squatter or is looking to steal traffic away from you. That drops to near zero if Edward Sieracki is actually a roofer and has 'Ed the Roofer' printed on his trucks.



Ed the Roofer said:


> Any idea on who it was? Registrant was unknown but there was a contact name on the site.


EdTheRoofer.com is owned by Edward Sieracki out of Hamilton, New Jersey.

Good luck. Next time, buy the domain as soon as you think you want the domain. With domains available for under $10 a year, it's cheap insurance.

Cheers,
Matt


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## [email protected]

Ed,

I'll shoot you an email.

If anyone else would like to test our accuracy let me know via email and we'll measure any one roof for you. Preferably for a job you've already performed so you can actually verify our measurements.

Thanks

[email protected]


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## RidgeWalker

EV is batting 50/50 with me. Funny thing is the roof that was most accurate was this one:










78 squares, crazy cut up hip/gable roof. My ground measurements with applied math were 20 sf differant the EV. Not bad

However!

A simple 33 square main hip with a gable garage on the side with two dormers was 10% off by EV. I didn't bother to measure this roof because I thought that if EV could get the above roof so accurate that it would be a no brainer.

EV reps tend to point out the strenghts of using the report in the sales process and I can see why. It shows a high level of professionalism, but for me I could care less about using it as a sales tool. The more tools you rely on the weaker you can become in actually selling yourself to prospects. Soon the day will come when many many roofers will be using EV. This brings up a new problem becuase you no longer have something differant to show some one.

My ONLY reason for using Eagle View is for obtaining square footages. And so far EG is not at the front of my mind yet for scoping a roof. 50/50 accuracey is far from their marketing claims.


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## [email protected]

RidgeWalker, 

I'd like to take a look at the properties in question...can you email me the addresses?

[email protected]


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## copusbuilder

Hmmm, I have not been here in a while but I was the one who started this post.

I have used Eagle view for many roofs since Ike. 
I have found their service to be both timely and professional. I may save money by going elsewhere but the $78 fee for a professional and accurate measurement of a complex and steep roof is well worth the money.

I have had a number of calls from other companies but will stay with Eagle View myself.
They have never let me down and have provided me with a presentation that "wows" my customers.....small change for most.


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## mikeswoods

*best thread award!*

I am not a roofer. This thread is the most serious and interesting this year.

THANKS TO ALL. MIKE


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## RidgeWalker

I will PM you the address for the property that was off. I don't have a job picture for you to look at.





[email protected] said:


> RidgeWalker,
> 
> I'd like to take a look at the properties in question...can you email me the addresses?
> 
> [email protected]


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## ClaimsAdjuster

Has anyone use AssureCalc Yet. I started using it on my claims from the last hail storm in Aurora, CO. I used EV and Geo on a couple claims at the start of the storm but had to wait too long with there turnaround time. Assure Calc was nice to use because you dont have to wait for the diagram you do the entire process yourself and just trace the roof. It saved me all of those roofs that were 9/12 and above.


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## msteinhoff

[removed]


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## ClaimsAdjuster

It took EV a few days I think because they were so back up and Geo was the next day which was good but i was turned off by the price. The problem for me is I am require to get the claims I see that day up and into the insurance companies hands the same day and i dont make as much on a claim as selling roof. So the price point of $7 is a lot better for me with assure calc. So by the time i go out to the house and realize that i cant measure the roof because its too high or too steep then when get back to the office i order the service i am another 1-2 days out. I had a friend who started to use EV for a claim and when he got the drawing back they missed some areas. So he had to call them back and waited another 2 days to get the diagram back that was corrected.


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## RoofMan0202

Msteinhoff...you claim not to work for GeoEstimator's yet one of your domain names:

www steinhoffcycling com

Redirects to: www estimateroofbysatellite com which is "not" one of GeoEstimators "non-biased, unaffilliated blogs" that happens to be completely biased towards GeoEstimators...

Also available for your viewing pleasure:
www roofsatelliteimages com
www satelliteroofmeasurements com
www satelliteroofestimate com
www roofadjuster com
www measurebysatellite com
www roofmeasurementservice com

I've been lurking for a while now and I'm surprised no one else has brought this up sooner...I mean, you end your comments on your blogs with the same "cheers" you end your posts with here on the forums. It's just kind of annoying that you're trying to hide who you really are. Props to the other services for at least coming out and saying look I'm so and so from this or that company.


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## msteinhoff

[removed]


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## RoofMan0202

I knew you'd change it that's why I included a google screen shot.

Wow you're even shadier than I thought.


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## msteinhoff

[removed]


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## RoofMan0202

msteinhoff said:


> You understand you're accusing me of owning a domain (estimatebysatellite.com) that doesn't exist, right? That's why I linked it to whois on Network Solutions - they are a third party over which neither of us has control.
> 
> RoofMan0202, I'll stand by my reputation. Shady? I'm a real person with a real name. You're hiding behind the mask on anonymity and your first post out the gate was to sling mud. I'm not going to answer any further charges from you.
> 
> Cheers,
> Matt


Sorry I meant www estimateroofbysatellite com

I'm not slinging mud, I'm stating what I saw. I did a google search for roof measurements and your steinhoffcycling link showed up attached to the estimateroofbysatellite blog. Sorry I'm not a genius on google and SEO like you seem to be but I'm pretty sure that means you host that site. Then again maybe not, maybe it just mysteriously changed within the same hour that you posted your reply. 

My name is Craig and I'm a small time roofer...there now I'm not "hiding behind anonymity."


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## RoofMan0202

msteinhoff said:


> Good example. *When my father bought his first nail gun, he was accused of sacrificing quality roofing in favor of raw speed.* *Other contractors competing for roofing jobs bragged that they hit every nail with an actual hammer. Two years later, they were all using pneumatic tools. Why?* Faster is sometimes better.
> 
> I'm convinced that remote roof measurement is the next Hitachi NV45AB2... roofers are going to adopt the technology sooner or later. *The only question is are they going to be at the front of the curve or behind the curve.*
> 
> No, that Hitachi will never replace the hammer nor will aerial roof measurement replace the tape measure. That said, I can't imagine climbing on a roof without something a nail gun nor can I imagine doing any volume of roofs without a remote roof measurement service.
> 
> Most roofs cost under $30 to measure remotely (using GeoEstimator, YMMV). I'm not sure I can personally measure a roof for less than $30. Maybe if the house were across the street. If it were across town, by the time you figure in my time to drive there and back plus gas, it's a wash.
> 
> Cheers,
> Matt


I find it hard to believe you have any credibility on here at all...


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## egmetro

*Aerial Estimating and perspective distortion*

While working with these aerial photography and estimating tools, I have found that if the aerial photograph is not taken directly above the project, the measurements can be skewed. If you use satellite images, the problem can be magnified due the the greater angle of view. For example, if the image is taken off center to the west, and there is a rake edge running east to west, the rake edge on the west side of the ridge will measure longer than the rake edge on the east side of the ridge (knowing that these rake edges are equal in real life). Some images are better than others, however sometimes the clearest image is the most distorted by perspective. 

Typically the two rake edges will add up to the overall (up and over the ridge) real-world measured value, however this is not always the case. I believe that this is the case when the image is also skewed in the other direction (north/ South- or some mixture of E/W & N/S offset from center). When the real-world measurements are verified, they will not come out to the same value as is taken from the aerial photographs. This is due to the perspective distortion and camera angle to the subject building. I believe this discrepancy increases with steeper pitched roofs. Has any one else come across this issue? 

Thank you,

Eric


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## egmetro

*Aerial Estimating and perspective distortion*

While working with these aerial photography and estimating tools, I have found that if the aerial photograph is not taken directly above the project, the measurements can be skewed. If you use satellite images, the problem can be magnified due the the greater angle of view. For example, if the image is taken off center to the west, and there is a rake edge running east to west, the rake edge on the west side of the ridge will measure longer than the rake edge on the east side of the ridge (knowing that these rake edges are equal in real life). Some images are better than others, however sometimes the clearest image is the most distorted by perspective. 

Typically the two rake edges will add up to the overall (up and over the ridge) real-world measured value, however this is not always the case. I believe that this is the case when the image is also skewed in the other direction (north/ South- or some mixture of E/W & N/S offset from center). When the real-world measurements are verified, they will not come out to the same value as is taken from the aerial photographs. This is due to the perspective distortion and camera angle to the subject building. I believe this discrepancy increases with steeper pitched roofs. Has any one else come across this issue? 

Thank you,

Eric


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## CBRoofer

*I tried it*

I tried using Eagleview a few months ago. As far as I could tell they did a decent job they were off by 2 squares but no biggie. I heard from my adjuster that they use GeoEstimator which i had never heard of. I have been using Geo ever since. They are easy to talk to in their customer service and the final product looks much better than eagle view to take to the customer. 

Charles


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## [email protected]

Hi CBRoofer,

Do you have the report number of the job you placed? If not what email did you place the order with? I'd like to look up the report and see where there might have been a discrepancy. 

Thanks,

-Will


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## [email protected]

egmetro said:


> *Aerial Estimating and perspective distortion*
> 
> While working with these aerial photography and estimating tools, I have found that if the aerial photograph is not taken directly above the project, the measurements can be skewed. If you use satellite images, the problem can be magnified due the the greater angle of view. For example, if the image is taken off center to the west, and there is a rake edge running east to west, the rake edge on the west side of the ridge will measure longer than the rake edge on the east side of the ridge (knowing that these rake edges are equal in real life). Some images are better than others, however sometimes the clearest image is the most distorted by perspective.
> 
> Typically the two rake edges will add up to the overall (up and over the ridge) real-world measured value, however this is not always the case. I believe that this is the case when the image is also skewed in the other direction (north/ South- or some mixture of E/W & N/S offset from center). When the real-world measurements are verified, they will not come out to the same value as is taken from the aerial photographs. This is due to the perspective distortion and camera angle to the subject building. I believe this discrepancy increases with steeper pitched roofs. Has any one else come across this issue?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Eric


Eric this is absolutely true, and from what we've found you run into at least a small perspective issue on about 95% of roofs measured by satellite/aerial images.

In most cases the biggest problem that's caused by perspective is the individual line lengths being off by a foot or two. When it comes to overall square footage, if the roof pitch is constant and the shapes on the roof are symmetrical, there won't be any discrepancy at all. Of course we know this is not always the case, many roofs have 2 or 3 pitches, and most are not perfectly symmetrical.

That's why EagleView's tools have been designed to identify the perspective of a given image, and account for it in the measurements on our report. We've done this because we know, especially on steeper pitched structures, this can have a large impact on the overall square footage of a roof as well as individual facets/planes/regions/etc. In order to bring you the most accurate measurements available we've taken care of the "perspective issue" for you.

If you'd like a sample feel free to send me the address (make sure you include an image provider) of an image you've found that skews your measurements. We'll measure it for you so you can see the difference.


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## Roofman20033

I used Eagle View for the whole season and have nothing but good things to say about them. Very professional and accurate. Could be a little cheaper but still worth it!


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## American Made

Will from Eagleview,

Is it true that *Eagleview outsources* in the Phillipines?? 

I think there are a couple of Americans here that would be interested in knowing where their money and jobs are going when they order a report.

-AM


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## ClaimsAdjuster

American Made said:


> Will from Eagleview,
> 
> Is it true that *Eagleview outsources* in the Phillipines??
> 
> I think there are a couple of Americans here that would be interested in knowing where their money and jobs are going when they order a report.
> 
> -AM


American Made,

That is funny. I overheard when i was at lunch at a conference a while back the guys from Geo Estimator stating that they get there diagrams from India and that Eagleview gets them from overseas also.


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## toecutter

*Satellite Estimaitng*

Sorry if you already are aware but you can use Goggle Earth and Google Maps combined to do a roof takeoff providing they cruised over and by the project site.


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## KarlV

I believe that to be true as well. Anyone confirm otherwise?


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## toecutter

I will be able to confirm when i reach 15 posts as i will then post a example on how to do it.


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## toecutter

KarlV said:


> I believe that to be true as well. Anyone confirm otherwise?



sorry for rehashing this thread but i said i would provide a example if Karl is still interested.


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## bender_dundat

We've used EV and Geo, I've found EV to be much more accurate than Geo. Either way, we purchased a Pictometry license to get our takeoffs after one of our guys take the pitch onsite. From my own experience, EV, Geo and others struggle to get the pitch 100% correct each and every time.

We've correlated our Pictometry measurements many times and found the accuracy to be quite acceptable. Once we get the measurements, we either use RoofCad or the sketch tool in Xactimate to come up with the roof area. In general, the Adjusters accept our end result when we include a copy of our takeoffs from Pictometry with the Xactimate sketch.


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