# Mesh Tape Question???



## Murphy

I have read a bunch of posts where it seems like everyone hates the mesh tape. Why? I have used it about a hundred times and never had any trouble. I never use it in corners but I have used it on ceilings for third floors and garage finishes. 
Is it going to be ok on the ceiling because no one is walking on top of the floors. 
What is the reasoning behind it being garbage? 
Murph


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## Greg Di

Murphy,

Take much of what you read here with a grain of salt. There are a lot of people posting with alleged authority about subjects they know nothing about.

With that being said, there is nothing wrong with mesh tape PROVIDED you bed it with a SETTING COMPOUND. It will not hold up using any sort of premix mud. 90% of people do not know this and thus think the tape does not work or have issues with it. These people don't read directions!

Personally, I use mesh on all the flats and paper in the corners. Use setting compound for the first two coats and finish with medium weight premix.

I'm actually working with an editor from a major trade publication on an article called "The Remodeler's Drywall Survival Tooklit" at the moment, so there is obviously a lot more to elaborate on.

Mesh tape IS OK...You heard it from me!


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## Murphy

Thanks man I was picturing call back galore. I always use setting compounds so I hope no worries there. I just wanted to make sure. 
Thanks


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## theworx

Just posting to add a little pepper to the grains of salt that you should be taking. Nice Golf shirt and truck Greg (you look nice). I'm just replying because I know nothing about taping (after doing it for 20 years).

Murphy. grab a piece of paper from your printer. Hold it on both sides. Pull down with your right hand and up with your left hand. Can you flex the paper??? No!!! Ok, go grab some mesh tape and try the same thing. Does it flex, well what do you know, it does!!! Do you really believe that applying a compound that hardens and can crumble if movement happens over a material that can flex is a good idea? I don't care if you coat it with concrete, if any movement in the structure you're using it in happens, you'll get cracks...

Recently, I've seen places I taped (with paper) and there was a lot of movement in the structure (cottages heaved by frost). Oddly enough, none of my seams cracked, but the actual drywall had cracks at pressure points. You would think the joints would crack, but they didn't. Guess what, I used paper tape.

So please take what I've said with a grain of salt. I'm currently working on a job retaping every seam and corner because the last contractor used mesh tape. Cracks everywhere!!!

Greg, I hope that article you are working on is for Home Owners. I'm guessing your warranty for your work is a long one (as long as the customers driveway). And please realize there are actually people on this forum with many years experience and do know what they are talking about. You heard it from me...


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## Greg Di

TheWorx,

I have personally never had an issue with mesh tape cracking, therefor I feel confident in saying that mesh tape, when used properly, is a good product.

Obviously, if you are taping a house that has not been dried in and may experience a lot of movement, you have problems to worry about. Paper tape may be stronger, but if an entire house is settling so badly that the joints are popping, then I highly doubt even paper tape will hold up.

I did not mean to insult anyone's experience here, it's just that the BS tends to fly wildly on this site in particular, and I see a lot of posters who claim to be "painters" posting in the carpentry forum, "masons" giving advice about drywall, etc...


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## Frankawitz

Well I have 27 years in the plastering and painting trades and I do all repair work and I have redone allot of repairs were mesh tape was used, and it cracks, Because the House exspands and contracts thru out the year , it has nothing to do with settling. I have worked in houses that were 60 years old and someone came in to repair stress cracks and they use mesh tape and in 6 months the cracks come back but now they have little checker board patterns, I read somewhere that paper tape rips at 22 pounds per square inch of pressure. so I would think paper tape will last longer and besides that if it does crack the mud doesb't fall out the holes like the mesh does.:w00t: and if there are masons telling someone how to do plumbing or any other trade telling someone how to do something I would think a person would listen to someone in that trade not someone who works in another area of construction.


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## ProWallGuy

I don't do whole drywall jobs, only hole repairs/patchwork. I've always used the mesh tape, and no problems so far. I did hear though that contrary to popular belief, the paper tape proves to be stronger than mesh under stress tests.


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## Mike Finley

With all due


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## sidejobs

*Mesh Tape Question*

I did a custom texture in my own garage were I taped and mudded to a level 3 finish. After that I apply mud (all purpose dry wall compound) with a rubber float at about an 1/8 of an inch over the entire surface. I waited for the compound to set until the desired consistency (about two beers). When the mud is ready I take a heavy masons brush and dap the entire area by touching the mud and pulling straight back. Then again more waiting, then I take a plastic knockdown knife and knockdown in a crisscross pattern. Last step is letting the mud dry completely then sanding the whole wall (the final resoult is a steco look). The point to this lengthy post is that on the first wall I did I used mesh tape and it crack on three seams. I was not happy with the cracking so one the next wall I used paper tape, no cracking. In my opinion paper all the way.


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## Danahy

Paper on cracks and seams, mesh on holes?

I'd love to see this thread continue with more stories where people have used both...


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## Mike Finley

I don't own


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## Classic Drywall

Ok, I guess I'll give my grains of salt here. I have been in the drywall business for 19 years (not an old schooler but not my first rodeo). I have only used fiberglass (mesh) tape a couple of times and did not like it. I did not get tons of cracks or tape and mud falling off walls just did not like the way it coats or *THE COST*. If I used mesh tape in all of our houses and did my first two coats in durabond brown bags (most expensive) or even if I used the lite I would go broke. The cost of the mesh along is reason not to use it, and then add in the cost of durabond vs. the cost of A/P and you can find all the reasons you need right there not to use it. Now if it's just for repairs I guess go for it, me I just use paper tape and 5 min. durabond lite for repairs. I believe this is a forum of contractors so the bottom line should be the bottom line. How can you afford the use mesh tape and durabond for the first two coats on all your jobs ? Maybe I'm just cheap and with todays pricing need to save where ever I can.

Joe....


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## Greg Di

Thanks, Mike for referreeing this thread.

Classic, from a remodeler's standpoint, setting compound is the only way to go regardless of cost. Unless it takes you a full day of running tape (like in a wholenew house), there is no way you can be profitable with paper tape and premix mud while you're staring at it waiting to dry.

I am able to hang, set tape, and apply two additional coats (including my finish coat) of mud in ONE DAY on a typical bathroom by myself. I think I'm doing OK efficiency-wise. What would my cost/profit be if I lost a whole day for every coat?

In fact, my drywall sub who I use for anything bigger than, say a kitchen, uses mesh and setting compound for ALL his work, because it's more efficient. I never computed it, but I would think that the labor and time savings more than offsets the additional cost of materials.

The are many, many instances when we pay more for a product because it's better, faster or saves labor. Why wouldn't you do the same for drywall?


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## Teetorbilt

I find the mesh best here, I attribute it to the humidity which generally hovers around 80%. A lot of homes here are open for a good portion of the year and only close up for a month or two during the winter and about 4 months during the summer. There can be large humidity swings in a short time during the transitions.


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## FleshnerDrywall

I dont know if paper is better than mess,but in new construction i prefer paper with a banjo or bazoka alot faster. Ive been doing drywall for over 10 years now i agree with Greg Di. New construction paper and remodel mess ecept for the inside corners ive went to a paper/metal bead for the inside corners. Just my two cents.


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## pruane

That reminds me i need to find a good plaster guy. I use both, no real reason sometimes i do sometimes i dont, results seem to be the same.


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## PlainPainter

I am confused - I thought that paper was the way to go when using sheetrock and mud. I have seen in my own house where mesh was used in the corners along with premixed mud and 15 years later the corners are all coming apart. Yet in other rooms where the corners were done with the paper tape and mud - it's flawless, you can even see in some cases that there was some movement in the house and there is a little buckling of the paper - but it's still firm and intact. Now I don't have much experience with setting type compounds. But I have trained myself in the last few years to put up blueboard and then skim with veneer plaster - and when I do that I put the mesh everywhere, not paper tape. And everything holds up flawlessly - this setting type compound sounds like it would be similar to the uni-kal plaster that I use, in which case how come mesh is bad then? But yeah when I do plain ol' rock and mud - I use pre-mixed joint compounds that come in green lidded 5 gallon buckets and I use paper tape - but plaster 
I use the fiberglass mesh.

-plainpainter


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## Greg Di

PlainPainter said:


> I am *confused* - I thought that paper was the way to go when using sheetrock and mud. I have seen in my own house where mesh was *used in the corners* along with *premixed* mud and 15 years later the corners are all coming apart.


Well, there you go. Premix was used with mesh tape and it failed. Someone didn't follow the directions and look what happens.


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## Classic Drywall

Ok I guess if your doing remodels, which I do very little of, I do mostley houses and commerical work. When we hit a house thats 12,000 ft. of board (250 12' boards) the only way to go is use paper tape and A/P mud. Plus we always use a banjo or bozaka pending on which crew I'm with that day. As far as watching mud dry never happens get the house taped out and get to the next one. So I guess from my stand point It would cost me a ton of money to have guys hand taping with mesh tape and coating with durabond. Tape with banjo or bozaka and coat with flat boxes.

Joe...........


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## Drywalller

I have been taping with mesh tape and setting compounds for 20 years.
It is a faster method of taping,I use a banjo and paper tape for internal corners.
When you apply mesh your first coat flat joints are done,and then you apply second coat over mesh the same day,1 more coat of lite weight mud over setting compound and its finished.As far as being more expensive,its not,A bag of GP setting compound is equivalent as a bucket of mud and costs the same here.Mesh might cost a little more but out ways the labor savings by far,Also drying factors are not a issue.
I also only use a non sandable dura bond and never had a call back.l


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## RussellF

I have done plenty of drywall and solely use the mesh. I have not had a callback on cracks either. Most of the repairs that I have done with cracking have been paper tape that was coming apart in corners where the ceiling meets the walls. Who knows if it was installed right, but I can't remember doing any mesh repairs. Just a personal preference I guess. My work is not really on a large scale so the price issue does not come up.


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## LennyV-NHSNOLA

I think the mesh will work fine AS LONG AS THE PROPER MUD is used. It's like a concrete slab. The mesh is just there to give some support to the slab, not to be the actual load bearing product. Would you use the same analogy for a concrete slab? If so, then they should not be using mesh but rather solid sheets of metal in the slab but they use mesh because it's more affordable and serves the purpose.

Same with mesh tape and paper tape. The paper tape is not supposed to be some type of load bearer in the event of settling between the section on either side of the joint. The hardened mud is providing the load bearing in that case. The paper is just an additional support factor. Technically, mesh should provide a better support, much like mesh in a concrete slab. The mud would be around all parts of the mesh and harden so the mesh becomes an integral part of the joint, whereas paper actually separates the mud so that the mud on either side of the paper never really get a chance to join together and harden (although it does "soak" into the paper to some extent). I think they both have their pluses and minuses and I have used both. I generally do use paper more often since it's more affordable (aka cheaper) and generally is thinner than the mesh so butt joints benefit from paper.


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## ALLIN1

They make the stuff so I try and follow there specs.
I use the mesh & dura bond for repairs and small rooms. Never would use mesh tape on butt seams or inside corners . All butt seam and inside corners move from lumber shrinkage and the paper tape gives the seam that extra hide/hold.

Form the usg Gypsum construction handbook 

A joint treatment system (reinforcing tape and joint compound) must provide joints as strong as the gypsum board itself. Otherwise, normal structural movement in a wall or ceiling assembly can result in the development of cracks over the finished joint.

Repeated joint strength tests conducted at the USG Research Center have shown that joints taped and finished with conventional fiberglass leno-weave mesh tape and conventional joint compounds are more prone to cracking than joints finished with paper tape and conventional joint compounds. This is because fiberglass mesh tapes tend to stretch under load, even after being covered with joint compounds.

Permanent repair of these cracks is difficult. Accordingly, USG does not recommend using conventional fiberglass leno-weave mesh tape with conventional ready-mixed, powder or chemically setting compounds for general drywall joint finishing.


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## boman47k

Non-sandable durbond?? Didn't know there was such and animal. Not sure I will ever be good enough with the mid knife, though.


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## Dwallguy

non sandable I can't use that LOL If you are in the business of drywall be it remodel or repair or drywall it'self you will learn when and where to use both. Trial and error are the worlds best teacher I can explain it to you but untill you do it you still will not know.


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## Drywall1

I like this thread, it makes me smile.


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## LennyV-NHSNOLA

Is that a paper smile or mesh smile?


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## Drywall1

LennyV-NHSNOLA said:


> Is that a paper smile or mesh smile?


Vertical paper smile!:laughing:


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## theworx

Smile all you want Drywall1, I'm laughing... Load bearing drywall mud :laughing: !!!


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## kgphoto

hi all.

It seams(get it?) that even on this thread, the complaints about mesh tape stem from using it with premixed mud.

That is how I see people do it all the time. I ask them if they know they are supposed to use hot mud and they just look at me blankly.

When you compare costs of doing work (Paper vs. Mesh) you need to look at all the steps. One guy running with a roll of tape and a knife can get almost all the seams taped before the rest of the stuff is brought into the room. I actually like to run down the seams with a damp rag before I run the tape, but that is just me. 

Then one guy mixing small quantities of hot mud( do it in a bucket with a paddle mixer) and the other guy applying. The applying guy stays just ahead of the mixing guy and there is no waste. The last bit can be mixed in a 1 gallon bucket with a paint mixer. I just run the drill backwards and forwards to clean the mixer.

if you are working by yourself, then use a slower mud, 40, 90, 120,+ and only mix what you can apply before it goes off. Once it starts going off, scrap off your hawk (I prefer a hawk to a pan) and your knives (I still use knives more than a trowel) and quick wipe with a sponge and you are clean.

By the time you finish first coating the room, you can start back at the beginning and do the second coat. For me, this is the fill coat, so mix a lot of mud. By the time you finish the room, you can apply the third coat. Here it can be another hot mud, or premix, pulled tight. I sometimes will apply a 4th coat of premix ,so I don't have to sand hardly at all.

So you save two days of labor which more than makes up for the extra cost of mesh and the same cost of hot mud. If you look at the USG tables, it takes less hot mud that premix to do any size job.

Finally corners, yes NO-Coat is very expensive compare to paper tape and corner beads, but again you use less mud, less drying time even with premix, and higher quality since they are guaranteed not to crack as they attach to the drywall only, not the framing underneath. I expect StraitFlex is the same, but I haven't used it yet.

None of this is to disparage any of the highly skilled 20 year veterans here. It is just that some of this stuff wasn't around 20 years ago, and you might find it works good enough now to change your methods.

Now none of this may mean anything to the large commercial taper, who even with general purpose mud running flat out, runs out of day before he can put on a second coat, so drying overnight is OK with him. Use the right tool for the job!

Looking forward to your article Greg Di.


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## BoB The Fixer

i only use mesh tape , done hundreds of commercials and residentials , no problems at all ! once i had no paper for corners and i used it , it came out neat !

cheers


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## BoB The Fixer

drywaller by the way is there any means u can teach me how to use bango , honestly i bought it and i faild in using it lol 

thanks


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## localtradesman

*I am in on this one.....*

I also have been doing drywall for the past 13 plus years. I do remodeling projects and I have always used paper tape. Plaster guys use mess tape because I believe that is what it was made for originally, correct me if I am wrong. I never have any call backs on paper tape. I have tried mesh...the problem with mesh is that if the mud is not pushed through the tape properly it will crack, and I have seen alot of sooooo called pros with cracks from useing mesh. Problem is that alot of homeowners think that the mesh is soooomuch easier because they can apply without mud first with the adhesive on the mesh. Mesh is lame!!!! :laughing: By the way....the expert guy that can do a bath in a day is very SLOW. I tape and first coat fifty sheets of 12 foot board in a day. Tape and second coat. Thats all with pan and knifes. A bathroom in a day...big deal....:clap:


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## kgphoto

I think you will find that most complaints about mesh tape cracking come from morons using drying type ready mix rather than setting types(hot mud)

Taping 12 sheets is a far cry from doing a bathroom. It is easy to run all out on long seams in a big room. Turning around in a small space, all the corners and details, plumbing and electrical penetrations, and the fact that the air doesn't move well in these small spaces for drying, all contribute to it being a slower process.

Mesh is not lame. I will have to look into the "quote" from the USG handbook though. It is not what I remember reading.


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## DobsonConstruct

I'm a carpenter and hate taping but heres my pepper....guys get used to what they like...I've had subs use both...they didnt like the mesh in the corners because of the way the knife skips, not because of cracks....I've only had a couple cracks in my years and I prep my customers for this because moisture plays such a pivotal role in the drywall process. Recently, with the use of sprayfoam insulation, I find the paper holds moisture longer because it only has one side to escape...but that doesnt make mesh better...I use a Bosh flush-cut saw and my lead uses a jap banjo saw...who cares


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## Mike Finley

---


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## Tmrrptr

Good thread!

Rarely do a whole house. repairs remods & additions mostly.
I feel paper is superior to mesh.
I use a lot of mesh w fast set, never drying premixed mud.
Mesh on the flats, paper in corners.
If using paper in corners w fast set, I prefer to wet the paper
so it doesn't suck moisture out of the fast set and seems to bond better.
I only use 5min and always bed the mesh.

r


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## kgphoto

Thanks Mike,

That was what I remembered reading.


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## snowman9308

I was taught "old school" by my husband, a 20 year finishing veteran. We use paper tape for whole house new construction, and for garages. But we also do modular homes, which need to be finished in a day or two, from hanging and finishing the drywall in the "marriage lines", repairing all cracks in the house from shipping and getting all the painting done, as well as the carpet, trim, etc. We use mesh tape on everything - cracks, seams, etc. with durabond 90 and never have a call back. These homes settle quite a bit while the frames relax on their basements and piers, so to not have any cracking occur, I'd say it's a decent product.


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## Brockster

All my closet seams, short tapes next to doors, super low seams and the seam on walls up top that looks like a triangle gets mesh taped before I prefill. Meshing them really saves a taper a lot of time.
Then of course all my corner bead gets meshed to prevent cracking.

Again, like stated above you MUST use hot mud on all mesh tape. Brown bag is fine but I'm lazy and mostly use easy sand over my mesh tape.


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## icerock drywall

blacktop said:


> You talking about this?


this it simply the best :clap:


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## blacktop

icerock drywall said:


> this it simply the best :clap:


Not sure If I would go that far Ice.


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## icerock drywall

blacktop said:


> Not sure If I would go that far Ice.


if you install it right it is the best ....well that is the way I feel :thumbup:


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## blacktop

icerock drywall said:


> if you install it right it is the best ....well that is the way I feel :thumbup:


To apply it correctly the flange will need to be paper taped tight to the center. That's the only way I can see it will hold up. JMO!


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## icerock drywall

blacktop said:


> To apply it correctly the flange will need to be paper taped tight to the center. That's the only way I can see it will hold up. JMO!


I use the 847 ...dont like the mud set for the magic corner and yes I do ff the flange ...they say you dont need it I just like to do it

I did a test peace and you cant pull it apart ...it is strong and yes I tested all the other way and my kids can pull it apart  paper ff straight flex dont pass my test
but 847 with ff or straight flex will pass


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## icerock drywall

icerock drywall said:


> as most of you know I am a fiba-fuse user ....I use to use mesh and durabond on my first coat and never had one call back
> 
> I am going into the city to do a job and I only have a day to do it so I am going old school. I am going to use Extra Strength mesh tape on my butts and seams and just mesh tape in the corners. my tape coat will be ezsand 20 with mud max mixed into it. 2nd and 3rd coat will be exsand 20. my outside corners will be trim-tex 847 ...3 coats one day
> If the gaps are filled and you use hot mud mesh will work and adding mud-turns any mud to durabond. so why not use durabond well if I stay with one type of mud I will not get bubbles


I did the city job yesterday and I did it like I said ...but I did NOT like the Extra Strength mesh tape 

1) it needed to be more sticky
2) its a little to thick
3) some of the fibers pop up and sticks out the 2nd coat


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