# Silicone in all joints after tiling in shower?



## Flikka2 (May 20, 2017)

Hi everyone,
I recently had some tiling done in a shower for clients and the tiler has caulked all the corners with clear silicone, is this standard practice? One immediate issue is that the silicone in spots has discolored, been removed, redone and discolored again.

Thank-you in advance for your replies.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Ideally you would use color matched caulk.... But I guess that guy wanted to save 10 bucks.

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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Would silicone work in a shower? Yes. Would it look stupid? Yes. Get colored caulk. Gonna suck like hell putting it in now. Need to make sure every single drop of the silicone is removed or it will be a problem


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Are you sure it was silicone? That stuff is pretty tough.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Silicone is tough. Removable, but tough. And the silicone isn't discoloring, you're just seeing what is behind it when it clears up after setting. More than likely


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## rtnscustom (May 13, 2017)

Most definitely not standard practice. The only reason you would do that is if you're not confident in your water-proofing methods. I used to silicone the corners of the Durock, and if he's so worried he can silicone BEHIND the tile when he puts it up but that is not an experienced installer's common practice

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## conductor (May 12, 2017)

Flikka2 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I recently had some tiling done in a shower for clients and the tiler has caulked all the corners with clear silicone, is this standard practice?


Grout colored water resist/tub tile caulk at change of plane/substrate I believe to be SOP. That's what I always do. Tile guys would know best.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

rtnscustom said:


> Most definitely not standard practice. The only reason you would do that is if you're not confident in your water-proofing methods. I used to silicone the corners of the Durock, and if he's so worried he can silicone BEHIND the tile when he puts it up but that is not an experienced installer's common practice
> 
> Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk


Silicone in the corners is SOP....clear not necessarily...


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## rtnscustom (May 13, 2017)

Inner10 said:


> Silicone in the corners is SOP....clear not necessarily...


I definitely wouldn't consider it SOP. what do you use as your backer board? Do you always use it because you have a problem with the corners cracking due to movement? 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

rtnscustom said:


> I definitely wouldn't consider it SOP. what do you use as your backer board? Do you always use it because you have a problem with the corners cracking due to movement?
> 
> Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk


I'd consider TCNA SOP would you not?

_When do you use caulk instead of grout?

Technically, anywhere there is a change in substrate or backing surface such as the joint between walks and floor and wall joint, caulk should be used in place of grout since these surfaces move independently of each other. However, it is important to recognize and make the end user aware of some important points.

Often, installers use grout in place of caulk for these reasons:

The caulk may not exactly match the grout color.
Even when the caulk exactly matches the grout color when installed, it may not match six months later (caulk will "age" differently from the grout).
Caulk will need to be maintained more often than grout.
Mold may grow more easily on caulk (except caulk treated with mildewcide) than on grout.
Acrylic caulks break down in horizontal wet applications. Silicone, urethane, or multi-polymer caulks are better choices but can be harder to apply.

However, when grout is used in place of caulk, the grout can cause structural and aesthetic problems.
The grout will crack allowing moisture to penetrate.
Where the grout is sufficiently strong, movement in the walls, floor, or countertop can damage the tile.
Grout cannot hide corner cuts as well as caulk.

In summary, caulk is the better choice, but the customer needs to understand its limitations._


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## rtnscustom (May 13, 2017)

Inner10 said:


> I'd consider TCNA SOP would you not?
> 
> _When do you use caulk instead of grout?
> 
> ...


Just for the record, if you felt attacked by what I said, I apologize for it. 
But thank you for quoting TCNA's handbook, obviously there's no room for arguing against that. I've went back with color-match grout caulk in the past when the shower corners have cracked because of either movement or having expansion/contraction issues, but very seldom. 
I don't think I've ever consulted the handbook before. 
I do appreciate you telling me that though because now I'll have something to fall back on when customers try to argue about how something should be.

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## rtnscustom (May 13, 2017)

But, at the end of it all, he used clear silicone. That is most definitely a terrible idea. The only time i ever do that is when a customer doesn't want to pay me to fix a leaking shower (that i didn't install) and i just band-aid if for them. 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

rtnscustom said:


> Just for the record, if you felt attacked by what I said, I apologize for it.
> But thank you for quoting TCNA's handbook, obviously there's no room for arguing against that. I've went back with color-match grout caulk in the past when the shower corners have cracked because of either movement or having expansion/contraction issues, but very seldom.
> I don't think I've ever consulted the handbook before.
> I do appreciate you telling me that though because now I'll have something to fall back on when customers try to argue about how something should be.
> ...


Every gas station bathroom from here to Toledo has cracked grout at every corner. Most guys here don't caulk epoxy or urethane because it's less prone to cracking...but there are two types of cement in this world, that that has already cracked and that that will crack.

Silicone holds up great but looks shiny, stands out and it's unforgiving to use. Siliconized sanded acrylic looks great but doesn't hold up for sh!t.


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## rtnscustom (May 13, 2017)

Inner10 said:


> Every gas station bathroom from here to Toledo has cracked grout at every corner. Most guys here don't caulk epoxy or urethane because it's less prone to cracking...but there are two types of cement in this world, that that has already cracked and that that will crack.
> 
> Silicone holds up great but looks shiny, stands out and it's unforgiving to use. Siliconized sanded acrylic looks great but doesn't hold up for sh!t.


So the answer? My go to is always color-match grout caulk (siliconized grout caulk) are you saying its inevitable? 

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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

rtnscustom said:


> So the answer? My go to is always color-match grout caulk (siliconized grout caulk) are you saying its inevitable?
> 
> Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk


I dunno, I'm not a tile setter, in my house I used Laticrete Latisil which is a colour matched 100% rtv silicone.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I know what they say about change of planes, but I grout mostly. My walls and floor are nice and tight first.

I especially don't grout between wall and floor (in the shower) since it takes too long to dry out and promotes mildew growth (even with good bathroom ventilation.)

As for tubs, I caulk the bottom joint but am often tempted to use grout. Still, I caulk that one.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> I know what they say about change of planes, but I grout mostly. My walls and floor are nice and tight first.
> 
> I especially don't grout between wall and floor (in the shower) since it takes too long to dry out and promotes mildew growth (even with good bathroom ventilation.)
> 
> As for tubs, I caulk the bottom joint but am often tempted to use grout. Still, I caulk that one.


I don't understand caulking between the tile and flange of a tub. You go to the effort of creating a waterproof drainage plane behind the tiles just to seal it so water can't escape.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> I don't understand caulking between the tile and flange of a tub. You go to the effort of creating a waterproof drainage plane behind the tiles just to seal it so water can't escape.


Caulk hides stuff like a tub not perfectly level, and one that moves under load....especially the cheap enameled steel ones.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> I don't understand caulking between the tile and flange of a tub. You go to the effort of creating a waterproof drainage plane behind the tiles just to seal it so water can't escape.


It's recurring income for those who recaulk every year or so. Occupants and cleaning ladies take the blame.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> Caulk hides stuff like a tub not perfectly level, and one that moves under load....especially the cheap enameled steel ones.


Tub should be level and should be set with water in it so that it doesn't move under load.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

You should caulk at every plane change. No matter how tight your joint is or how much you braced your framing, tile expands and contracts. The lumber expands and contracts. It will eventually crack.

Silicone is not used as a waterproofer but due to it's longevity. It just last a dang long time and helps prevent mold and mildew.

Discoloration occurs for several reasons and if cloudy is in the caulk itself. That's why you never use clear. Use color match silicone or color match siliconized arcylic.

@Inner: We caulk the tile to the tub. Keeps water from going up and into the substrate. Yes you waterproof, but not as a drainage plane. No way if you are getting 95% coverage that it would drain. The waterproofing is mitigation for moisture getting past your substrate into structure.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

FWIW, I've been checking my showers and back splashes done over the last 3 years, which I know isn't a long time, but at least they've gone through the seasons several times.

No caulk in the corners. Quartzlock2 grout. Kerdiboard or kerdi waterproofing. Not one with cracks.

Backsplashes, over drywall, same grout. No cracks in corners. I siliconed about 6 jobs and didn't the other 6 at the counter. The non-caulked ones all cracked at the counter.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

Golden view said:


> Backplashes, over drywall, same grout. No cracks in corners. I siliconed about 6 jobs and didn't the other 6 at the counter. The non-caulked ones all cracked at the counter.


Similar experience here. I think there's just a lot of movement on countertops and there isn't much you can do about it in most situations. You have a 3 or 4 layer flooring system plus cabinets, possibly with shims, and then you lay a heavy piece of stone on it. It's going to compress over time, to some extent. Plus the backsplash moves with the wall and the counter moves with the floor.

For showers I used color matched sanded caulk. Too many people complained about the silicone being too "shiny".


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

For corners that are tile meeting tile, I use a small amount of grout in those joints and push it back into the gap then cover it with a bead of translucent silicone.
The caulk picks up the colour of the grout and if it cracks, the silicone protects it.


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## rtnscustom (May 13, 2017)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Tub should be level and should be set with water in it so that it doesn't move under load.


That is true. But if everyone listened to "shoulda's" then we wouldn't have fun forums like this.

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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

jlhaslip said:


> For corners that are tile meeting tile, I use a small amount of grout in those joints and push it back into the gap then cover it with a bead of translucent silicone.
> The caulk picks up the colour of the grout and if it cracks, the silicone protects it.


That's one of the worse setups. It should be one or the other. Not to mention clear silicone will look like a cloudy mess after a year of use.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That's one of the worse setups. It should be one or the other. Not to mention clear silicone will look like a cloudy mess after a year of use.


Plus you want the void between the tile so the silicone fills it up and makes a mechanical bond.


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