# Do you have health insurance? If not what are you planning to do?



## black95gt (Nov 25, 2012)

im not an expert on what goes on in the healthcare world, but nationalizing healthcare was done in the wrong manner. The doctors and the insurance providers have bickered back and fourth for so long that costs were driven up erratically along the way making healthcare unaffordable to most. Then uncle Sam steps in, does what they did and created a cluster**** that they cant even decifer what it means. Now you have the gub'ment, doctors, lawyers and the insurers that dont know what to expect come 2014 so to cover their rears, they jack the prices of health insurance up like no other to cover the unknown and to line their pockets. And as always, its me, you and the middleclass that once again are getting screwed. It really wont affect the rich because whats another $1k a month to most of them. The poor will get their free health care. The middleclass will be burdoned by the extra healthcare costs or extra taxes associated with not being able to afford to have insurance. Add that with the other rising costs and we are going to see it trickle down to us contractors because homeowners arent going to want to remodel or put that addition on. I just see it as another form of wealth distribution, although we are distributing it to the wealthy and the poor!


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

KAP said:


> Drop that money into either a tax-deductible investment or a tax-deferred investment...
> 
> Here's an example with Tom M's money... Let's say he is 40 and will retire at 65, if he took that $583/month and investing it instead of giving it to the insurance company and got an average of 7% return, you know how much it will be worth? He would have put in $175K as opposed to giving it to the insurance company and his investment would be worth
> 
> ...


Just for the sake of argument...

Where the hell are you getting 7% from? 10% You kidding me? It would take Tom M 25 years of outstanding stock market management to produce those kind of numbers. Probably not realistic if Tom M wishes to do anything beside read the Wall St. Journal all day. Say, run a business that provides him with money in the first place.

On top of that, 500k really isn't a lot when you get into your senior years. Having money really works against you once you get up there in years. My grandmother is in pretty good shape, but needs to be an assisted living facility with 24/hr staff, just in case. Her room is 6k/mo. 72/yr. If she needed direct personal care it would be much more. That is going to evaporate the 400k we got from the sale of her home in just a few years.

Additionally, this relies on Tom M never having any kind of injury, ever, from 40 years old on. If he has to pay out of pocket for any serious procedure it's going to cost him 10s of thousands, which will affect the growth of his balance, even at 10%, drastically.

I'm not trying to fight with you or suggest that insurance companies are anything other than the devil, I honestly just want to see you explain this a little more.
I am in my early 30s and I have no idea what I'm going to do about health care/retirement as I get older. It seems like the government wants everyone to be a ward of the state. I don't fully understand why.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

Sorry man, that first sentence came of really combative. Didn't mean it to be that way.
I get very frustrated thinking about this stuff.

Sorry again.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> I hate the whole "I can't afford it" thing. My wife and I pay nearly a grand a month for coverage. Guess what, I would lot's rather do something else with that money besides being responsible. Too many poeple don't carry and just figure to pay out of pocket - until they have to go into ER or hospital then are amazed how quick the thousands add up!
> 
> As far as I'm concerned those that don't carry health insurance are being hacks at being citizens, just as those that do unlicensed and uninsured work are hacks in business.


Hard to pay 1, 000 a month when you make 17 an hour with two kids and a mortgage. 

One of my carpenters makes about 800 a week, is a single father with rent to pay. He drives an old truck thats paid for, doesnt eat out or have nice stuff. He certainly cant afford 300 a month, much less 1000. He works side work every weekend as it is.

I pay a lot for our insurance, and I feel bad for those are doing everything they can and cant afford it, but Im not providing health care at work. I looked into , but no way I can get the cost down to anywhere near what I would pay when there only 7 of us.


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## ASInsulation (Aug 25, 2010)

Realistically, its out of reach for alot of people. Don't say something like "oh, lose the cable tv and smartphone to make up the difference". Guess what, if I cut off my cable, home phone, cell phone, and internet service, I would still only be saving less then 50% of my coverage for myself and my son right now. Should we let the electric and gas go off too? If they are going to hike everything up AGAIN, then I will be one of those guys getting my son covered with some of MY tax dollars by the state, and hoping for the best for myself, because it will be unaffordable.

I'll gladly be considered a hack citizen then, because on the other side of it, I'll be putting food on the table and keeping the family warm. I'd rather be a great father then a great citizen, sorry.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

KAP said:


> Don't you realize that if you have a claim, you paid for your own deductible? And if you don't have a claim, does that not argue for NOT just giving your money to the insurance company but instead BANKING it?


Funny you say this because I know a family friend whom never carried health insurance and always invest. In Apple a matter of fact. He got in early 80's. He was a florist/cash business and the building he operated in caught fire so his business took a hit. He did get a handsome sum of money from insurance and the Apple stock was cranking.

He didnt get insurance because he argued that he could weather a serious sickness financially. Well he got sick not once but twice. Strokes. Hes okay for now but he's ruined. He had not worked in 12 years and went through over 700k. Now only because he is a vet is being kept afloat with VA assistance. He has big problems at 63. The cost of getting sick is crippling and you do assume your health and your income stay intact for years. No thank you.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

I stand by my statement. When I was young and not making much, I worked 80-100 hours a week to do what needed to be done. Sometimes just a forty hour week don't cut it.

Heck, I rarely only put in 40 a week now.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Tom M said:


> Funny you say this because I know a family friend whom never carried health insurance and always invest. In Apple a matter of fact. He got in early 80's. He was a florist/cash business and the building he operated in caught fire so his business took a hit. He did get a handsome sum of money from insurance and the Apple stock was cranking.
> 
> He didnt get insurance because he argued that he could weather a serious sickness financially. Well he got sick not once but twice. Strokes. Hes okay for now but he's ruined. He had not worked in 12 years and went through over 700k. Now only because he is a vet is being kept afloat with VA assistance. He has big problems at 63. The cost of getting sick is crippling and you do assume your health and your income stay intact for years. No thank you.


Tom, it is now different.... if he was in the same situation, he just signs up for the insurance and they not only HAVE to take him, even WITH pre-existing conditions but they can't charge him more than others in his community despite it...

This is why a change in strategy is in order...


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Easy Gibson said:


> Just for the sake of argument...
> 
> Where the hell are you getting 7% from? 10% You kidding me? It would take Tom M 25 years of outstanding stock market management to produce those kind of numbers. Probably not realistic if Tom M wishes to do anything beside read the Wall St. Journal all day. Say, run a business that provides him with money in the first place.


There are different investment options other than the stock market... 

Although I have stocks/mutual funds, I am getting the most bang for my buck in real estate. Tax sales/deeds, buy and hold (not renting, but leasing - removes all landlord responsibilities while collecting a cash deposit up front and getting guaranteed returns)... do some research... 



Easy Gibson said:


> On top of that, 500k really isn't a lot when you get into your senior years. Having money really works against you once you get up there in years.


So you'd rather not have it and give it to the insurance company? 




Easy Gibson said:


> My grandmother is in pretty good shape, but needs to be an assisted living facility with 24/hr staff, just in case. Her room is 6k/mo. 72/yr. If she needed direct personal care it would be much more. That is going to evaporate the 400k we got from the sale of her home in just a few years.


It sure will if you don't do anything with that $400K... do you know how many guys would KILL to have $400K liquid to invest with?




Easy Gibson said:


> Additionally, this relies on Tom M never having any kind of injury, ever, from 40 years old on. If he has to pay out of pocket for any serious procedure it's going to cost him 10s of thousands, which will affect the growth of his balance, even at 10%, drastically.


No, I take that into account... what I am saying is that while he does not have this as an issue, he BANKS the money... if he ends up with an issue, he gets the insurance... they HAVE to not only take him with pre-existing conditions (i.e. - guaranteed issue), but they CAN'T charge him more than others in his community (i.e. - community rating)... 



Easy Gibson said:


> I'm not trying to fight with you or suggest that insurance companies are anything other than the devil, I honestly just want to see you explain this a little more.
> I am in my early 30s and I have no idea what I'm going to do about health care/retirement as I get older. It seems like the government wants everyone to be a ward of the state. I don't fully understand why.


Now think of this... if you spent only TWO HOURS per week looking into these issues, that over 100 HOURS per year... do you think you would have a better understanding after 100 hours?


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

TxElectrician said:


> I stand by my statement. When I was young and not making much, I worked 80-100 hours a week to do what needed to be done. Sometimes just a forty hour week don't cut it.
> 
> Heck, I rarely only put in 40 a week now.



What's a 40 hr week?:whistling


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

We need to figure out how to make a nationalized health care system work. We have the Va for military. No reason we can't figure out how to make something similar for those who chose not to serve.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

TxElectrician said:


> I stand by my statement. When I was young and not making much, I worked 80-100 hours a week to do what needed to be done. Sometimes just a forty hour week don't cut it.
> 
> Heck, I rarely only put in 40 a week now.


I agree with you on the 40 a week thing. I hear you as far as the insurance thing also. But, insurance companies, and those in the medical field need to quit being so greedy. If I paid let's say $500/month for insurance, somebody has to supplement it. My customers barely can afford to get their furnace going again, as most folks live from pay check to pay check.

Unfortunately, the numbers or math formulas simply don't work out for the general public.


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## SDel Prete (Jan 8, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> I went to get some antibiotics not long ago and for a 5min checkup it cost over $250+$40 for the meds. She asked me how I would like to pay and I said I have insurance but don't have a card as I lost it. She said I could pay now and it will be $120 or I can send my details over and they will bill the insurance. She gave me a bill for $250 and I was like this is the wrong price. She said that is the price they charge the insurance company as the insurance company's rarely pay the charges as they fight them and they have to make the money up they don't pay by charging more which costs us more:blink: sure enough I get a letter from insurance company says they won't pay the bill because the doctor I see for 5 mins is not named on their system. It took about 8 phone calls to get this sorted. I have not had a bill for the deductible yet so I guess they still ain't paid them.


Funny you say that. I went to the doctors for a visit with my, at the time 9 month old son. I was changing insurance at the time and didn't have a card on me. They told me they charge ppl with no insurance $65 to see the doctor for just a visit. However they charge the insurance $300 for just a visit. Asked me what I wanted to do. Crazy on the different charges between the two parties.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm not sure what is going to be available to buy when it is available to buy.

And after I've bought it, it may have such a large deductible, that I'll have to go overseas for anything major. I had a hernia done overseas in '09 I believe, and it cost me $900 versus $12-15K here.

Point-somehow it should be illegal for a service provider to charge me $130 and an insurance company only $40 for the same service.

Point-I have found that if I use a small clinic in a rural area and tell them I have no insurance, an office visit is $20.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Our hospital here has a new program, if self pay they take 40%off the bill and if you pay within a certain time they talke another 15%, so 55% al total , now that is crazy!!!


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Side note:
Know whether your doc's practice is owned by the local hospital, like many of them have become. They get to use different billing codes which really jack up the costs for the same visit/service.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

flashheatingand said:


> I agree with you on the 40 a week thing. I hear you as far as the insurance thing also. But, insurance companies, and those in the medical field need to quit being so greedy. If I paid let's say $500/month for insurance, somebody has to supplement it. My customers barely can afford to get their furnace going again, as most folks live from pay check to pay check.
> 
> Unfortunately, the numbers or math formulas simply don't work out for the general public.


Yeah, but those in the medical field have to spend a lot of money to get educated... they give up a lot in the beginning to be rewarded later...

The problem is simply competition... the health insurance companies are not subject to competition.... there are not that many in each state, so it is easy to collude on prices without actually breaking the law on pricing...

Small companies innovate and are not as bloated as the big guys, so prices are driven down... you see this in Life, Disability and Auto.. for an even better example, look at the phone industry versus electric...

Electric companies are state-protected monopolies and you NEVER see their prices go down because of it...

All that happened with Obamacare is is now the health insurance companies are now guaranteed the business, so don't expect the prices to ever go down...

So a new strategy is needed for you and your family....


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I've posted about this before and I guess I will again.

During birthing classes, I talked to the instructor about our insurance, which did not cover childbirth. Childbirth is not an illness by the way. She suggested I talk to the finance dept. at the hospital ahead of time and see what was up.

So I called and told them my situatation and a gal told me their discount for paying before you leave was somethig like 60%, and she later gave it to me in writing.

It is almost to the point where you need a consulatant or a guidance counselor working with you.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> I stand by my statement. When I was young and not making much, I worked 80-100 hours a week to do what needed to be done. Sometimes just a forty hour week don't cut it.
> 
> Heck, I rarely only put in 40 a week now.


Not disagreeing. We had health insurance when we were first married, my wife was a part time waitress at Blue Bonnet while going to night school, which we paid out of pocket for over 5 year's. I worked my job, and did a chit load of side work, from mowing grass to building decks on double wides or doing tile showers. We drove old vehicles and lived in a crappy single wide we rented on the deal I would fix it up for reduced rent.

Now im self employed and own a business. 

Your self employed and own your own business. 

Most people dont have that drive. 

My point is trying to believe they will be is futile. They wont.


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

KAP said:


> Drop that money into either a tax-deductible investment or a tax-deferred investment...
> 
> Here's an example with Tom M's money... Let's say he is 40 and will retire at 65, if he took that $583/month and investing it instead of giving it to the insurance company and got an average of 7% return, you know how much it will be worth? He would have put in $175K as opposed to giving it to the insurance company and his investment would be worth
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, that would all be wiped out with one heart attack at age 58. Plus, if it's tax-deferred you would have to pay income tax AND an early withdrawal penalty at the same time as the Dr. bills.


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