# Feds: Chinese Drywall Has to be Gutted



## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/04/02/business/AP-US-Chinese-Drywall.html?_r=1

*"They say electrical wiring, outlets, circuit breakers, fire alarm systems, carbon monoxide alarms, fire sprinklers, gas pipes and drywall must be removed. "*

Wow. That's a chunk of work. The local US Gypsum plant in my area is about to close down. They might stay open.


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

HO LEE CRAP.If that goes through that is going put a big hurt on the original builders.


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## Frankawitz (Jun 17, 2006)

I read awhile back that it was real bad down in Florida some areas where they built those $400,000 cribs and now they have to gut them, wouldn't it be cheaper just to Bulldoze them down, how do they know if the chemicals in the sheetrock hasn't leached into the wood? Hey maybe the Government will open their eyes to the crap coming here from china. JUNK! After they tear out the drywall they should load it on a ship and send it back to them at their cost to ship it:boat: :thumbup1: :gun_bandana: :chinese:


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

I have a long time customer that processes and sells a bulk chemical used in breakfast cereals and soda pop. They used to get their raw material from Idaho, then closed that mine when the Chinese started flooding the market with it 4 years ago. Tore down the buildings, everything. A year ago they decided to start prepping one of their plants for closure because again, they couldn't sell their product at a worthwhile price.

Fast forward a few months and all of a sudden everyone is realizing that the phosphate from China has the same stench as this drywall, plus radionuceotides, depending on what sample you check. Now the customer is kicking himself for tearing down that mine, and the plant they wanted to close is making more money than ever.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

funny Inez doesn't say exactly what is so harmfull about it? Are we supposed to know already? First i've heard of it.
Typical US Governent...too little, too late :lol:


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

and along these same lines, maybe we (US GOV) should give grants to everyone living in a home built before 1978 !!!!!!! Get rid of all that harmfull lead paint as well.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Splattered on the news,*

NBC just announced the Chinese drywall epidemic,:w00t: mostly in Florida-:whistling


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

As usual, it is difficult to protect some buyers from themselves.

There are some specs, but I doubt the buyers of the materials really cared or knew what the standards were. Probably concerned with the price and availability.

I don't know if the drywall could be sold in China, since they protect their people (execute executive that made products that ended up in the deaths of Chinese), but will sell whatever a buyer (usually a marketer or distributor will want at any specification at a low price). If the products came through a U.S. company or manufacturer they would be responsible for the specs since there name is attached to the product and invoice.

China is a much larger market than the U.S. and has greater capacity, so the worst could he siphoned off for export. According to a GM executive, China buys more Buicks than the U.S. (behind Mercedes and BMW in total), so there is a lot of money there for good products.


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## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

the taxpayer will be footing the bill. this stuff is probably fine. man, is it easy to make americans panic. just ask al gore.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Why stop at that - tear them down! I wouldn't want to ever own the home. Just sawzall the walls into nice square panels and ship them back to were they belong...and make'em pay for it. :furious:Who wants to be a guniea pig.

What's really crazy is they can't even seem to get drywall right:chinese::no::wallbash:
what else do we need to worry about? 

I'm buying a canary for my coal mine:tt2:


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## stp57 (Dec 12, 2007)

I cut this out of an article today on Yahoo News:
" But Randy Noel, past president of the Louisiana Home Builders Association, said the Chinese drywall problem has been exaggerated. He called the new guidelines "overkill.""Nobody has come up with a house yet that has caught on fire from the Chinese drywall, no one has come up yet with a house that leaks water or gas because of Chinese drywall," he said.
He has examined numerous homes containing Chinese drywall and found minor problems, he said.
"It's a black soot on top of the copper, brass and silver," he said. "You wipe the stuff off and it looks as good as new."

Maybe Randy should actually move his family into one of these homes?:jester:
Steve


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

too bad americans can't afford to push china out of our country. we can't trust anything from china. toys, food, building materials. it's all junk.

America was great when we made everything we need here. now we just consume. it's very sad.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

if the EPA banned it for use in 1989 here, how can we let products containing the phosphogypsum into our country, doesn't anything get inspected when it's first brought here for sale in our stores?

this will be bad for banks and insurance companies. 

it would definitely be easier to bulldoze the houses. the framing could be contaminated.

Radium causes an increased risk for lung cancer.


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

You can't push China out because we owe them too much and they might foreclose. - The problem with the products is the dumb buyers that only want a low price for the Chinese rejects.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

looks like a lot of work in florida. I wonder who flips the bill for this, homeowners insurance? if the sulfur smell was able to be detected, wouldn't they have noticed issues when it was first drywalled? I'm glad I never did any jobs with that cheap crap. the Federal government should be paying for this because they are in charge of what gets imported into our country. unless regulations are close to ours, then we'll continue to get dangerous products into the hands of our kids, in our homes etc.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

d-rock said:


> the taxpayer will be footing the bill. this stuff is probably fine. man, is it easy to make americans panic. just ask al gore.


The Chines drywall is not fine there are problems with it, the drywall is offgasing sulphur fumes that smells real bad and is causing copper and other metals to corrode.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

ApgarNJ said:


> looks like a lot of work in florida. I wonder who flips the bill for this, homeowners insurance? if the sulfur smell was able to be detected, wouldn't they have noticed issues when it was first drywalled? I'm glad I never did any jobs with that cheap crap. *the Federal government should be paying for this because they are in charge of what gets imported into our country.* unless regulations are close to ours, then we'll continue to get dangerous products into the hands of our kids, in our homes etc.


It is the peoples responsibility that made it and sold it to make sure it complys with our standards, why should the taxpayers get stuck with another bailout?

The companies that made the drywall, sold and imported the drywall should pay for it, not me and the other taxpayers.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

It's not just in Florida either.:no: 
The link below shows a map of the US and what states are reporting issues with Chinese drywall.
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environment/community/indoor-air/images/USdrywall.pdf​ 
*California*
*Washington*
*Florida*
*Louisiana*
*Texas*
*Arizona*
*Wyoming*
*Missouri*
*Mississippi*
*Alabama*
*Georgia*
*Tennessee *
*North Carolina*
*Virginia*
*Kentucky*
*Indiana*
*Ohio*
*Pennsylvania*
*New York*
*New Jersey*
*Michigan*
*Wisconsin*
*South Dakota*
*Massachusetts*
*Nevada*
*Minnesota*
*South Carolina*
*Maine*
*Illinois*
*West Virginia*
*Maryland*
*Oklahoma*
*Arkansas*
*Connecticut*
*Vermont*
*Kansas *
*Delaware*​


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

bwalley said:


> It is the peoples responsibility that made it and sold it to make sure it complys with our standards, why should the taxpayers get stuck with another bailout?
> 
> The companies that made the drywall, sold and imported the drywall should pay for it, not me and the other taxpayers.


yes the companies who imported it should be held liable but don't hold a builder liable for not asking how the product was made how many of us investigate how a material is made when we to a store to buy it.
many of these houses the builders just hired a drywall company to come in and they drywall company bought the cheapest out there thinking drywall is drywall etc.

it's not a bailout. it's the fact that the governments needs to regulate when something NEW comes into our country and how it's made, where it's made and what precautions were used to make it safe. otherwise, keep that crap in china and let it kill those people.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

The drywall companies that bought the product and the chinese company that made it are the responsible parties. The drywall company because they could have purchased "good" drywall locally but hey they could save pennies a sheet to get from china...more profit for them. China company because they should have tested the raw materials they mined before they processed it for manufacturing. 
US gov't has no responsibility here.


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## bwalley (Jan 7, 2009)

ApgarNJ said:


> yes the companies who imported it should be held liable but don't hold a builder liable for not asking how the product was made how many of us investigate how a material is made when we to a store to buy it.
> many of these houses the builders just hired a drywall company to come in and they drywall company bought the cheapest out there thinking drywall is drywall etc.
> 
> it's not a bailout. it's the fact that the governments needs to regulate when something NEW comes into our country and how it's made, where it's made and what precautions were used to make it safe. otherwise, keep that crap in china and let it kill those people.


When a builder buys any product such as drywall we don't have it tested, do you test any of your building materials before you install them?

The chinese drywall was sued during a building boom when the US suppliers could not keep up with demand, I never used and never realized drywall was coming from China, but I don't have new building materials tested, unless it is concrete and the job specs it to be tested.

If the government pays to replace the chines drywall it is a bail out, it could be called cash for chinese drywall.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

who is in charge of the ports, where items are brought in? that is the first line of defense when items are brought here for sale.
the gov is not 100% responsible but they have to know what is being sold. we bring in too much junk into this country. it's gotta stop.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

bwalley said:


> When a builder buys any product such as drywall we don't have it tested, do you test any of your building materials before you install them?
> 
> The chinese drywall was sued during a building boom when the US suppliers could not keep up with demand, I never used and never realized drywall was coming from China, but I don't have new building materials tested, unless it is concrete and the job specs it to be tested.
> 
> If the government pays to replace the chines drywall it is a bail out, it could be called cash for chinese drywall.


i never said I did test materials, nor should i have to. if i go and buy it in america, it should be SAFE that's the bottom line.

chinese companies, suppliers, and gov are all to blame here. 

first to pay should be the company who made it but i know that's not going to happen. you think a company from china is going to flip the bill to have a whole house taken apart and everything replaced? it would cost too much to do that. tear these houses down and start over.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

*Hind sight is 20/20*



TimNJ said:


> The drywall companies that bought the product and the chinese company that made it are the responsible parties. The drywall company because they could have purchased "good" drywall locally but hey they could save pennies a sheet to get from china...more profit for them. China company because they should have tested the raw materials they mined before they processed it for manufacturing.
> US gov't has no responsibility here.


Actually, you are making assumptions about this. It was not cheaper to buy. There was a drywall shortage here in 2004 and 2005. Due to the fact that several damaging hurricane's that hit the US. Then on top of that there was a housing boom going on. I remember not being able to get drywall at all and putting jobs on hold. Once we did get drywall I don't remember seeing any drywall labeled made in China. 
On the affected counties in Florida map. My area is 6-20 affected homes so far.
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environment/community/indoor-air/images/FLCountiesDryStats.pdf


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## Cletus (Jan 7, 2008)

As a homeowner, if this happened to me I wouldn't be concerned with specifics, only that I am 100% compensated for ALL damages. All parties involved would be included in the lawsuit, general contractor, subcontractor, supplier, importer, manufacturer, individuals, etc., wouldn't matter to me who. Let the courts figure it out. 

As a contractor, I would not be surprised to be sued if I or subcontractors I hired used this material. 

To me, the federal government has nothing to do with this. And I don't see a Chinese company ever writing a check to rebuild these houses. Maybe this drywall met all applicable Chinese specifications, who knows.

In my mind, that pretty much leaves the importer to answer some questions. I believe the burden lies with them to make sure the products they have brought into the U.S. are suitable for use in this country. I think builders can also reasonably be expected to verify the quality of the materials they use. 

Crap rolls downhill, and years later the homeowner commonly gets left to pick it up. This is yet another black eye on the construction industry.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

why are all you guys giving the government the easy way out. who in the hell is responsible for materials imported into our country. do we not care how they are made, where they are made and are they harmful or not?? we knew that china still used this chemical in their process and that we banned it in 1989 from being manufactured here. so two and two should have been put together and anyone bringing this drywall into the country should have known. 
doesn't matter on the price at this point of how much the drywall was, it's that it should have NEVER been allowed on our soil if it was made by practices BANNEd in this country. THAT is what the government should be doing, keeping americans safe from items brought here from other countries that might harm people/pets/or property.


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## JKBARR127 (Jan 13, 2010)

i agree w apgar 100% and am very surprised to see not more of u do. if i go to my distributor to get drywall I'm getting what i always get because i know how it is and what to expect. if there out of it or I'm on a tight budget and trying to save some money I'm asking for the cheapest and if its a substantial amount of savings I'm going w that. I'm sorry but I'm not taking a sample to the lab and having it tested to see what is in the boards and weather or not its ok to use. If its being imported it should be okayed by some govt agency. they don't import land rover defenders any more, why? because they refuse to put 5mph bumpers on there car. in doing so the us govt deems it unsafe and unfit for us roads. it took lotus something like 2 extra years to introduce the elise and exige to us markets, why? because they had to put airbags in it. anything being sold on our shores has to meet a certain standard regardless of what it is. from food to toys to cars to yes, building supplies. If I'm buying something at a us store yes i try to buy American but do i always no. if I'm buying an imported good do i say to myself wow i hope this stuff meets the regulations and is safe? no its there for sale, in being allowed for sale it should have already gone through testing and approval. if there were specs called for that is a different story but if plans call for 5/8's rock its getting just that 5/8's rock. here's another scenario. I'm doing insulation and go buy what my supplier has, which happens to be from china. 3 years later it is found that this sh-- contains asbestos. Are some of u guys saying it should have been up to me to investigate the contents of this material if it wasn't listed on the packaging?
Its very easy to say buy local buy American but in some cases u cant. I know most on here try to support the local store but sometimes u cant. I'm sure everyone on here has some Chinese or Japanese tools. and everyone has gone to the box stores. if this wasn't the case walmart wouldn't be a billion dollar industry and lumber yards would still be as abundant as they were 20 yrs ago


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

The drywall may not have meant the Chinese standards either, but the U.S. is good, uncontrolled dumping point for products that can be sold on demand with little controls on quality and little checking by purchasers. Once it is delivered to the U.S. the marketer and possibly the distributor may not have the liability, which passes at that point to the American company that bought it and will try to sell it. The U.S. has not control over the products produced elsewhere, but does have responsibility for what is sold in the U.S., since it must meet U.S. standards or codes for the product sold or used (if they exist).


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

the drywall sold did meet their standards from what I hear china hasn't banned the additive that they used , which was radioactive in nature and can contribute to lung cancer.


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## Tim0282 (Dec 11, 2007)

Other than that, pretty good stuff... :blink:


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

Firstly: 

The government is once again "riding to the rescue" here without any significant citings of studies done to see how much H2S (Hydrogen sulfide, a weak acid and gas at room temperature) will sublimate from the drywall in total. There is a chance that it will do so for the first few years, and then it will cease to sublimate. If that were the case, the smell problem could be solved with charcoal filters (costly, but far less than gutting everything.) 

As for the copper and iron corroding to the point of failure, that's also pretty questionable. H2S should react with Cu by forming a layer of Cu2S on the surface of the pipes, and after that layer has been created, it shouldn't corrode any further. Just like water (H20) forms a green layer of Cu2O inside the pipes, then corrosion stops once it can't penetrate the oxidized layer to fresh copper. Likewise with Iron, it should form a ferrous sulfide salt that coats the metal. I could be wrong, but I want to see some studies openly included when claims of gutting entire homes are made.

Secondly:

The Chinese companies are ultimately responsible, followed up by US Customs Dep. for not keeping tabs on what comes into this country, followed up (possibly) by retailers in the U.S. Let's be reasonable though, how would even a major retailer have time to test every product they stock for gas sublimation? In addition, contractors should never have to be responsible for keeping track of every single product they install, it would be impossible. What if a fastener company suddenly changed formulas and had a failure a few years later? How would the contractor know about this? If I go to Home Depot or a contractor supply house to buy drywall, I'm going to assume it's good drywall.

Thirdly:

There's going to be a mountain of bullsh*t surrounding this issue, with the politicians trying to act like white knight defenders of the public good, the Chinese companies writing off their due blame, the Chinese government stonewalling lawsuits, the lawyers claiming that home builders are liable because they're easy targets. People can never seem to grasp the reality that people make huge mistakes, bad sh*t happens and sometimes you don't get compensated for it. I'll bet 1000's of morons gut their homes before researching alternative methods because some bureaucrats with no chemistry background told them to.


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

But Randy Noel, past president of the Louisiana Home Builders Association, said the Chinese drywall problem has been exaggerated. He called the new guidelines ''overkill.'' 
''Nobody has come up with a house yet that has caught on fire from the Chinese drywall, no one has come up yet with a house that leaks water or gas because of Chinese drywall,'' he said. 
He has examined numerous homes containing Chinese drywall and found minor problems, he said. 
''It's a black soot on top of the copper, brass and silver,'' he said. ''You wipe the stuff off and it looks as good as new.'' 


I believe the best way to handle this problem it to....

1. Buy all leftover drywall and have us contractors who work for those naysayers install the sheetrock in their houses.:notworthy

2.Drop our prices for work at congress men/woman not on board with FULL replacement of all damages "to all the homes effected".:furious:

3.Write your contract to exclude your liability to that product.:thumbsup:

Then we can sit back and watch how fast this will be settled!:laughing:


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Snobnd said:


> ''It's a black soot on top of the copper, brass and silver,'' he said. ''You wipe the stuff off and it looks as good as new.''


 
You know what cracks me up about that statement? Of course it looks new under the coating. Because the coating is eating away at the metal!


Also, in the industry I'm in, I either get told or have to know exactly what I install. I have to document out the whazzoo all of the products I install. I have to get paperwork from the steel mills across the globe where the fittings and lengths of pipe or steel are made to make sure the strength and chemical composition are all known and within acceptable limits. Then I have to bind up all of these mill certs (for the exact lots and heats of products that I install) and present them to the owner at the end of the job, so that he could literally take my bound report out to the field, look at the heat number on a pipe elbow, and know within a minute what mill in China made it, when it was made, when it entered the US, what the chemical composition is, and how strong the metal is.

God forbid if every home improvement contractor had to be responsible for similar measures. But I wouldn't put it past the politicians and suppliers to pass the buck down the line.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Actually, you are making assumptions about this. It was not cheaper to buy. There was a drywall shortage here in 2004 and 2005. Due to the fact that several damaging hurricane's that hit the US. Then on top of that there was a housing boom going on. I remember not being able to get drywall at all and putting jobs on hold. Once we did get drywall I don't remember seeing any drywall labeled made in China.
> On the affected counties in Florida map. My area is 6-20 affected homes so far.
> http://www.doh.state.fl.us/environment/community/indoor-air/images/FLCountiesDryStats.pdf


No assumptions. If there was a shortage the drywall companies could have filled the void by opening up more lines in the US and hiring US people to work on those new lines. USG used to have a drywall plant not far from me and it was closed some years back. They could have reopened it and created some jobs in the US, but no, it was cheaper to just ship the crap over from China.


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## oldrivers (May 6, 2007)

Well this is how we learn our lessons trial and error, unfortunately this is an expensive one. I know florida does not allow shingles to be shipped in without meeting very strict guidelines to meet hurricane standards ect .. and dont always blame china there have been alot of american made products that turned out to be bad designs etc ... the problem is the attorneys are ready to tear apart any american company that screws up but they cant touch china i guess. we can only blame ourselves for the products we import because we dont want to pay the price or we want to sue anyone that falls short or makes an error. wich is impossible to avoid because any product can be deemed bad design if anyone ever gets hurt using it.. tort reform needs to be addressed ....


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## BuildersII (Dec 20, 2009)

Aggie67 said:


> Also, in the industry I'm in, I either get told or have to know exactly what I install. I have to document out the whazzoo all of the products I install. I have to get paperwork from the steel mills across the globe where the fittings and lengths of pipe or steel are made to make sure the strength and chemical composition are all known and within acceptable limits. Then I have to bind up all of these mill certs (for the exact lots and heats of products that I install) and present them to the owner at the end of the job, so that he could literally take my bound report out to the field, look at the heat number on a pipe elbow, and know within a minute what mill in China made it, when it was made, when it entered the US, what the chemical composition is, and how strong the metal is.
> 
> God forbid if every home improvement contractor had to be responsible for similar measures. But I wouldn't put it past the politicians and suppliers to pass the buck down the line.


Drywall isn't structural engineering, and it wouldn't be worth the extra expense in the long run. This drywall problem is pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, and even having to document all of the factors that the manufacturer would have on hand would probably not have prevented the problem. The fault should be on customs for even letting into the country to be sold as a certified product, unless of course the Chinese companies supplied false documentation.


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## stp57 (Dec 12, 2007)

You notice that the article says that Randy is a "past" president of the Louisiana Home Builders Association. No wonder!
Steve



Snobnd said:


> But Randy Noel, past president of the Louisiana Home Builders Association, said the Chinese drywall problem has been exaggerated. He called the new guidelines ''overkill.''
> ''Nobody has come up with a house yet that has caught on fire from the Chinese drywall, no one has come up yet with a house that leaks water or gas because of Chinese drywall,'' he said.
> He has examined numerous homes containing Chinese drywall and found minor problems, he said.
> ''It's a black soot on top of the copper, brass and silver,'' he said. ''You wipe the stuff off and it looks as good as new.''
> ...


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Some of you guys don't get it. We did not order this crap from China because ''it was cheaper''. Every time this subject comes up I hear that.

The U.S. factorys were going all out, 24hrs a day and not making it fast enough. We had hundreds of homes sitting ,waiting for board, all the suppliers were out. Even the big box stoers were out.......nada,anywhere!

We've hung drywall shipped in from all around the world here,who would have thought any different about this stuff.

I've been in homes hung with this crap,Its totally gutted/stripped of all drywall,the only thing they save is the wall studs, cabinets,tubs and floor tile stays. all else goes in the dumpster.

I've heard that some guy is trying to come up with some system of tenting the home like you do with termites and injecting a type of gas that will neutralize the gases comming from the drywall. Don't know what ever happend with that but it sure sounded like a good idea.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Big Shoe said:


> Some of you guys don't get it. We did not order this crap from China because ''it was cheaper''. Every time this subject comes up I hear that.
> 
> The U.S. factorys were going all out, 24hrs a day and not making it fast enough. We had hundreds of homes sitting ,waiting for board, all the suppliers were out. Even the big box stoers were out.......nada,anywhere!
> 
> ...


So then why didn't we get it from Germany, England, Brazil..............


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

oldrivers said:


> we can only blame ourselves for the products we import because we dont want to pay the price or we want to sue anyone that falls short or makes an error. wich is impossible to avoid because any product can be deemed bad design if anyone ever gets hurt using it.. tort reform needs to be addressed ....


I'm sure if the builders and suppliers had a choice of "good" drywall or "bad" drywall they would have chosen the "good". They didn't get it from the distributors to save money, they had no choice. The choice was made by the manufacturer.

Right about now the ho's are thanking their lucky stars that there are tort lawyers out there so maybe they can at least recoup pennies on the dollar rather than each ho having to hire their own individual lawyer for their indidvidual house and then be stonewalled for the next 10 years.


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## Islander11 (Apr 8, 2010)

TimNJ said:


> I'm sure if the builders and suppliers had a choice of "good" drywall or "bad" drywall they would have chosen the "good". They didn't get it from the distributors to save money, they had no choice. The choice was made by the manufacturer.



While I will agree that much of the Chinese drywall sales was driven by a limited supply, it certainly was also driven by price at times. On several occasions I was approached by sales reps trying to sell me Chinese drywall really cheap, and the more I bought the cheaper it was. They were selling it by the shipping container, and while I don't recall the exact numbers, I could have bought 30 containers full of the crap for less than half of what Goldbond would have cost at the time (this was at a time when drywall was readily available). I was skeptical from the beginning because as we all know, if it sounds too good to be true, it is. Just for fun, I asked a few of the reps for specs on the material, and they never could supply me with anything of substance.


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