# DIY skills to be extinct by 2048



## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

I'll be 57. Ugh.

I can do my own repairs (I imagine most of us here can...) but if it's automotive related I'll look at the Internet. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Easy Gibson said:


> Most of my handyman work is for people in my age group(early 30s).
> 
> Here are some highlights:
> 
> ...


How much did you charge to replace the shed door?


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## mattbau43 (Jul 21, 2014)

My father did not have any repair skills and did not teach me. I am still a beginner but the internet has helped me surpass his skills by far. Most basic repairs can be done easily after spending a few minutes online. In the last few months I have fixed my dryer, rebuilt a lawnmower (carb) and wired in new pot lights in my office all thanks to free internet tips.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

I do think that there will be a problem, the internet is a great tool BUT craftsmanship doesn't occur by watching videos. Craftsmanship is knowledge plus skill and the electronic generation has little in the way of practical experience. That and the quick/cheap way homes have been built lately makes contractor repair look promising on the horizon.


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## QualityContract (Jan 30, 2014)

fourcornerhome said:


> You can find how to fix damn near anything on the internet....
> There is really no need to know how to fix a leaky faucet until it leaks.


I think you're missing the point. The article is not saying that knowledge of DIY is going over the internet. The article is saying that no one wants to do construction work anymore. They'd rather play on the computer.

Here is another article that explains that the average age of a construction worker has been increasing in the last 50 years:

Construction workers, like the rest of the U.S. population, are getting older. The average age in construction was 40.4 years in 2008, 4.4 years older than in 1985 (see Figure 1). More than 40 percent of construction workers are "baby boomers," that is, they were born between 1946 and 1964. The proportion of construction workers in this age range varies from 23 percent among roofers to 54 percent among construction managers. And construction workers overall stop working at an earlier age than other workers. These demographics predict an exodus of experienced workers from the industry in the next decade. CPWR -- The Center for Construction Research and Training is evaluating ways to increase work participation as construction workers age.

hsonline.com/articles/2010/03/01/the-aging-worker.as


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## fourcornerhome (Feb 19, 2008)

No, I get it.
My son is pursuing degrees in economics and computer science at one of the top colleges in the country.
Why on earth would he care to learn to properly pound nails all day, especially when it's implied in school that you are a failure if you are without a college education.
He would much rather pay someone a fraction of his earnings to handle the jobs he can't perform.

I remember that they had 6 computers in his kindergarten classroom. It's what these kids know.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

Well by then maybe skilled trades will be hard to find and homeowners will have to pay all the more.

I'm still at the age where I could pursue computer science. I'm fairly capable in that respect thanks to years of schooling pounding it into my head but I don't think I'd enjoy it as much. Also this job keeps me fit, I'd be fat otherwise.


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## rosethornva (Aug 15, 2010)

fourcornerhome said:


> Why on earth would he care to learn to properly pound nails all day, especially when it's implied in school that you are a failure if you are without a college education.


That's so true, but maybe, in our lifetimes, that pendulum will swing the other way. I know *many* 20-somethings and 30-somethings that will NEVER work long enough or live long enough to pay off student loans. 

Conversely, you could spend two or three years learning a trade and spend the rest of your life earning a good wage. 

BTW, this is the very thing Mike Rowe was talking about in the other thread: The importance of America having workers that know how to work with their hands.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Youngin' said:


> Well by then maybe skilled trades will be hard to find and homeowners will have to pay all the more.
> 
> I'm still at the age where I could pursue computer science. I'm fairly capable in that respect thanks to years of schooling pounding it into my head but I don't think I'd enjoy it as much. Also this job keeps me fit, I'd be fat otherwise.


It'll be one of those cycles. Right now since we are going boldly into the computer age there are a lot of prospects in those job fields. But soon enough with everyone saying I'm to good for physical labor the people who are capable of doing this will fade. 

After a certain point there aren't going to be enough people to accommodate the need. And that is when 1 of 2 things will start to happen. People not able to find someone to fix their stuff are going to have to start paying an ever increasing price to get those physical labor jobs done. 

Or as the price of the trades go up because there is a value to knowing how to work with your hands the younger crowd will start to notice you can once again make a decent living working with your hands.

Or the third option is the gov will let the illegals do all the manual labor for cheap and no one will be happy with the quality of the repairs and they will just buy new stuff.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Leo G said:


> It'll be one of those cycles. Right now since we are going boldly into the computer age there are a lot of prospects in those job fields. But soon enough with everyone saying I'm to good for physical labor the people who are capable of doing this will fade.
> 
> After a certain point there aren't going to be enough people to accommodate the need. And that is when 1 of 2 things will start to happen. People not able to find someone to fix their stuff are going to have to start paying an ever increasing price to get those physical labor jobs done.
> 
> ...


I'll take option one as I'd rather work in the trades over a desk job any day. Might as well get paid more... :clap:


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## txgencon2 (Jun 26, 2014)

I'm still amused by the use of "DIY" and "skill" in the same sentence.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Ya, that is kinda an insult now isn't it?


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

I disagree with the statement that people will do less DIY in the future. The article seems to claim that a higher percent of people were taught or learned skills during previous years, but the people doing DIY work today are not taught. A high percent of the people currently doing the DIY work today were never taught even the basics.

Every day, I see people standing at DIY cash registers with water heaters and these people are purchasing parts for gas piping and valves that are made only for water piping.

Twenty five years ago, my company was selling about 240 garbage disposers every year. Now, with the DIY stores my company sells about 80 disposers annually. Water heater sales went from about 180 per year to 100. From our water heater and disposer sales we used to upsell many of the jobs to between $5k to $10k. Thanks to the DIY's we now have only 1/3 of the potential customers to upsell.

When a homeowner needs service or a repair this is the order they think with:

1) Can I do the service or repair myself,

2) do I have a relative or friend who can do the service for free,

3) do you know someone who can perform the service who charges lower than the market price.

and 4) the last person I want to call is someone who is going to charge me the market price.

The customer are rare with the attitude that money is no problem and I am willing to pay top-dollar because I know that good service should be at the top of my list is important.

With DIY stores, every idiot idiot with a butter knife and a can of glue thinks he has the expertise the same as a general contractor and this will never change.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Im ok with homeowners staying the fruck out of homedepot and lowes.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

In this day and age when things are getting tighter and tighter, financially, I believe even more people are d.i.y.. It seems as though today, more and more people have an idea what is wrong with the a/c, as they have done on line research. 

I guess I have to disagree with the report. Maybe folks don't want to turn a wrench for a living, but they certainly don't have a problem with turning a wrench for themselves.


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## fourcornerhome (Feb 19, 2008)

I agree. Not everybody has 10 thumbs. With some things,(say crown molding for instance) the only difference between the pro and the DIY are speed and efficiency. If they have the time and don't mind wasting some material as they learn watching on line videos, the finished product can rival some of the pro work I have seen.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That sounds like my brother. He was building a nice medicine cabinet. He came into my shop about 2-4 hour a day while I was building a kitchen. I built the kitchen and finished it and he finished the medicine cabinet. And then I had to put a finish on the medicine cabinet. It came out really nice, but I built a really nice kitchen in the same time. Ya, I was working 10-12 hour a day and he only worked 3....but I built a kitchen and he built one cabinet.


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## southrncadillac (Jul 12, 2014)

new to this entire website, im 25yrs old, i graduated from college in the field of computer networking, i _*was*_ a know it all until i received my first drill(didnt know how to change the bit, but i know how many bits are in a byte lol)...being born and raised in apts all my life i knew nothing about homes or how to use my hands, but after 2.5 years of experience, i learnt* a lot, after dealing with customers- they don't want to bother with computers or fish a wall, i'm very optimistic about the future..hope the trend continues.:thumbup:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Some people just cannot do anything with their hands. Others are just too lazy to even try. And what qualifies anyone as a "Pro"?. There are tons of so called "Pros" that are nothing more than DIYer's, they don't have clue how things are supposed to be done.

I believe a "Pro" has a natural knack to work with their hands and don't have to look on the internet to figure out how to do everything.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Leo G said:


> That sounds like my brother. He was building a nice medicine cabinet. He came into my shop about 2-4 hour a day while I was building a kitchen. I built the kitchen and finished it and he finished the medicine cabinet. And then I had to put a finish on the medicine cabinet. It came out really nice, but I built a really nice kitchen in the same time. Ya, I was working 10-12 hour a day and he only worked 3....but I built a kitchen and he built one cabinet.


well he probably enjoyed it..plus you weren't there to irritate him so what was his rush?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

avenge said:


> Some people just cannot do anything with their hands. Others are just too lazy to even try. And what qualifies anyone as a "Pro"?. There are tons of so called "Pros" that are nothing more than DIYer's, they don't have clue how things are supposed to be done.
> 
> I believe a "Pro" has a natural knack to work with their hands and don't have to look on the internet to figure out how to do everything.


no i disagree,a pro knows how to feed his family with what he's learned..nothing ''natural'' about it..


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I was there to bother him. And he got in my way quite a few times on the tablesaw. Taking 20 minutes to do things that I would do in 15 seconds.

He wanted to cut about 10 strips at .090". And he's an engineer. So he's go the calipers out and he is moving the fence over for each cut so the pc he needed would be the drop. I'm patient to a point. After about 8 tries he got 2 strips to his perfect .090". I needed the tablesaw and asked him what the hell he was trying to do. He explained his ,090" dilemma to me. I told him to get outta the way. I set the saw at .090" and used a push stick and gave him the pc. He said it was too small, .089". I told him to breathe on it, it's wood, it'll grow. 

I cut the rest of his strips in about 25 seconds and asked if he was done using it. He finished measuring the strips and most ended up at .090" A few high and a few low. He wanted them all to be .090" I asked him what they were for and he told me. I laughed and said after you sand them they're gonna be small anyway. Told him to deal with it because it doesn't make any difference for what you need them for. He wasn't that happy about it, especially the sanding issue now.

It came out fine in the end. And he told me so. I just looked at him and told him you can't help yourself...your a PITA engineer, just like all the others.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Leo G said:


> I was there to bother him. And he got in my way quite a few times on the tablesaw. Taking 20 minutes to do things that I would do in 15 seconds.
> 
> He wanted to cut about 10 strips at .090". And he's an engineer. So he's go the calipers out and he is moving the fence over for each cut so the pc he needed would be the drop. I'm patient to a point. After about 8 tries he got 2 strips to his perfect .090". I needed the tablesaw and asked him what the hell he was trying to do. He explained his ,090" dilemma to me. I told him to get outta the way. I set the saw at .090" and used a push stick and gave him the pc. He said it was too small, .089". I told him to breathe on it, it's wood, it'll grow.
> 
> ...


The speed thing in the shop sounds like me and my brother. He is a cabinet guy, I am not. 

Every time I help him in the shop, he says "it will go faster if you get the ×@$! Out of my way. Go form some concrete or frame something"

:laughing:


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

when i see customers who are unable to do anything it seems to do more with income

rich people dont need to DIY

Poor people have no choice but to try to DIY........if your poor and you cant rig something your going to be living like people do in 3rd world countries


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Tom Struble said:


> no i disagree,a pro knows how to feed his family with what he's learned..nothing ''natural'' about it..


Maybe not for you, I've been around long enough to know some people just can't be taught, you might be able to teach them one thing such as siding. A natural has the ability to do almost anything, not be taught or look on the internet.

There's a difference between knowing how to do something and actually being able to do it. Not everything is taught, some people have the natural ability to do what they do.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)




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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Avenge, having natural ability makes you good

Being a pro makes you money


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

avenge said:


> Maybe not for you, I've been around long enough to know some people just can't be taught, you might be able to teach them one thing such as siding. A natural has the ability to do almost anything, not be taught or look on the internet.
> 
> There's a difference between knowing how to do something and actually being able to do it. Not everything is taught, some people have the natural ability to do what they do.


I agree with that. People have different skills that come natural to them. I am not good at sales, math, multi-tasking, etc. but can focus on a task and finese a project pretty well. Like automotive or mechanical work, there's a feel that you develop, some people overtorque, undertorque or regularly strip threads or are otherwise ham fisted. Different strokes for different folks.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

avenge said:


> Maybe not for you, I've been around long enough to know some people just can't be taught, you might be able to teach them one thing such as siding. A natural has the ability to do almost anything, not be taught or look on the internet.


While it's a given that we're not all equally endowed genetically, IMO your life experience has one heckuva lot more to do with that "naturalness". Not necessarily whether you were swinging a hammer with Dad at age 8 (though that helps), but more about whether you learned to be a self-starter and willing to face challenges.

In general, a man of average intelligence can do anything other men of average intelligence can do. If he wants to.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Certainly isn't genetics. My Dad is a true pencil pusher. Can't do a thing with his hands. Which is why he always pushed me to be a desk jockey. I told him I'd have to shoot myself if I was forced to do paperwork for a living. My grandfather on my Moms side was good with his hands. But he had to be. Old school farmer, you do what you have to do.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Creativity is a big part of having a natural gift for a craft. I lack a great deal of creativity that is required to be what I consider a true craftsman. Im a solid tradesman, and I can build anything that has been drawn, but im not a designer or particularly creative in an artistic sense.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> no i disagree,a pro knows how to feed his family with what he's learned..nothing ''natural'' about it..


Out of thanks.


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## QualityContract (Jan 30, 2014)

southrncadillac said:


> new to this entire website, im 25yrs old, i graduated from college in the field of computer networking, i _*was*_ a know it all until i received my first drill(didnt know how to change the bit, but i know how many bits are in a byte lol)...being born and raised in apts all my life i knew nothing about homes or how to use my hands, but after 2.5 years of experience, i learnt* a lot, after dealing with customers- they don't want to bother with computers or fish a wall, i'm very optimistic about the future..hope the trend continues.:thumbup:


Unfortunately, you graduated at the wrong time. I also looked into computer networking. Back in 2007, it was the fastest growing occupation at 50%. Now, it's slowed to a grinding halt down to 12%.

The 30 Fastest Growing Occupations in the 2008-2009 Occupational Outlook Handbook
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ooh.t01.htm

Network And Computer Systems Administrators: Occupational Outlook Handbook
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and...twork-and-computer-systems-administrators.htm


But, computer software is a long way from dying down:

Hard to fill jobs: Software developer
http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/economy/2013/09/10/hard-to-fill-jobs/1.html


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Creativity is a big part of having a natural gift for a craft. I lack a great deal of creativity that is required to be what I consider a true craftsman. Im a solid tradesman, and I can build anything that has been drawn, but im not a designer or particularly creative in an artistic sense.



It's really too bad 'artisan' is not an accepted term in construction.


Tradesman, craftsman, artisan .... Craftsman can build anything within their craft to a very high level of technical accuracy and complexity. An artisan is the creative who can take design intent and apply it to the grey areas of craftsmanship. Make the appropriate decisions that embellish the design and not circumvent it. Artisans are not necessarily capable of designing themselves. Understanding design and designing are two different animals.



LOL Biggest problem with craftsman and artisans ... they don't always do so well expressing what they do to potential clients. They need someone who understands / is amazed by what they can do and the voice to talk it up 



:laughing:
After thinking like this (above) .... a DIY means what? IS what kind of threat? Let 'em do it cause they saw it on TV. Each to their own abilities ... over time most will learn their lessons and seek 'professional' help. I've known many people over the years who tried. Some succeeded and some failed DIYing. The majority said never again.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Some of my customers don't even try to do the real simple stuff because the wife will actually belittle them about trying...even in front of me. I hear it pretty often, even about hanging a picture. The three of us will be standing there talking about a project and the wife will ask if I can hang a picture. "I can't trust Bob to do it because he'll screw it up...he doesn't know how to do anything".

After hearing enough of this over the years, chances are Bob doesn't want to even attempt the easy stuff. He's been defeated before he even tries.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Artisan is a good term, and what I meant by craftsman in my post. 

Ive always been amazed by truly talented artisans and even designers. Its incredible to see the way they work, especially for someone who does not have that talent, like myself. I can look at a proposed project and see things a layman wouldnt, mixed design styles, out of proportion structures and details, things like that. But to come up with a design for that completely compliments the rest of the residence is not in my realm of thought beyond the basic addition or detail. 

I agree many extremely talented artisans can not do other things well that they need to be able to do in many cases. Some are capable of all. 

One of the men who works for me is extremely talented, but cant communicate his thoughts well to a client, or sell , which is why he no longer has his own show. Organizing trades , scheduling and coordination of the work and work force are not his strong suits, either. Fortunately they are my strong suits. 


A few years ago my dad told me he thought I was going to be even better at the business part than the trade work. 

It was extremely offensive to me, lol. Very likely because he emphasized the need to be very proficient in our work at every level from a young age, and showed disdain and contempt for inferior tradesman who didnt work to become better. 

It took me a while, but I see why he was happy about that revelation now. He wasnt saying I wasnt good at the work, just saying id be better at the business end. 

A true artisan or someone whos creativity and knowledge work together to creat art are truly impressive.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Robie said:


> the wife will ask if I can hang a picture. "I can't trust Bob to do it because he'll screw it up...he doesn't know how to do anything".


One thing that is unfortunate is that some people don't value failure or use it as a learning opportunity.

DIY skills is something that we learn early on as children.. especially when it comes to eating. A kid is going to knock his cup over at the dinner table several times before he figures out how to keep it sitting upright. But no parent in their right mind is going to say, "No more milk for you, Junior! That'll teach you not to knock it over!"

There is a strategy in the DIYer industry. The retailers are banking on their hopes that you, as the DIYer, will return to the store 3 times. The first time will be to buy that $10 all-in-one painter's kit. Then the second trip will be to get sandpaper and a thick putty knife to scrape out the roller lint and to buy a better roller and better brush separately. Then the third time to buy better paint and a better drop cloth..

Because of the learning curves, DIY projects will never be extinct.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

jb4211 said:


> Avenge, having natural ability makes you good
> 
> Being a pro makes you money


I guess that makes me a naturally good pro?



Texas Wax said:


> :laughing:
> After thinking like this (above) .... a DIY means what? IS what kind of threat? Let 'em do it cause they saw it on TV. Each to their own abilities ... over time most will learn their lessons and seek 'professional' help. I've known many people over the years who tried. Some succeeded and some failed DIYing. The majority said never again.


That is so true, over the years I have found they fail miserably, figure out it's cheaper, quicker to hire a pro or they do a bad job and think it looks fine. A handful I've given tips and tricks, they do okay.

99% of my customers are female, their husbands if married don't have the time even if they have the knowledge. I have jobs where I don't meet the husband at all. I've had wives tell their husband "Shut the f**k up all you do is pay for it" when they try and talk to me about the job I'm doing.

I had a job installing kitchen cabinets, he had tiled his backsplash. I told him I have to tear that out. He freaked saying it was beautiful and perfect. Not one tile was cut, he went around the switches and outlets without taking the covers off and filled all the spaces with grout.

A lot of DIYer's think they did a good job when in fact they just don't know what quality work is supposed to look like.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

I think PCPlumber framed things the best.

I went and looked at a job about a month ago, it was installing a kitchen cabinets. 

The husband calls me, we set up an appointment and I show up, guess what he had to goto work so he leaves his wife there to talk with me. Not a big deal, usually I deal with the women, then I realize why he may have bailed. The dining room is full of cabinets in boxes, without asking too many questions the husband demo'd the kitchen (months ago?) the cabinets came in and the husband realized he was over his head. 

I start asking questions about the elec. plumbing, drywall repairs, tile this and that because it's always alittle more than installing cabinets. I told them I was 6 weeks out and give me a call if it works with their schedule.


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## QualityContract (Jan 30, 2014)

Robie said:


> Some of my customers don't even try to do the real simple stuff because the wife will actually belittle them about trying...even in front of me. I hear it pretty often, even about hanging a picture. The three of us will be standing there talking about a project and the wife will ask if I can hang a picture. "I can't trust Bob to do it because he'll screw it up...he doesn't know how to do anything".





avenge said:


> 99% of my customers are female, their husbands if married don't have the time even if they have the knowledge. I have jobs where I don't meet the husband at all. I've had wives tell their husband "Shut the f**k up all you do is pay for it" when they try and talk to me about the job I'm doing.



I'm glad my wife doesn't act like that. You guys must be from the north.


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