# Alum wire question?



## look171 (Mar 18, 2008)

Hello,

Can I tie existing alum wire to copper together with regular wire nuts? Since they are dissimiilar material, will they fused together or cause anything other problems? Just light relocation on a bath project. Thanks

Jeff


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Can I tie existing alum wire to copper together with regular wire nuts?


Yes, if you want to burn your house down, they react together and cause and corrode which makes a weak connection that increases resistance and gets nice and toasty.

There are special pasts and connectors that have to be used to avoid this reaction.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

That and the other part is aluminums tendency to 'cold creep' where it expands and contracts and loosens the connection between itself and the copper.


----------



## look171 (Mar 18, 2008)

Thanks guys,

So what are the parts? What are they call?


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

look171 said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> So what are the parts? What are they call?


 
AlumiConn.

CopAlum.


----------



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

look171 said:


> What are they call?


Expensive.


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/twister_al-cu.jsp
They are pricey....Check to see if they comply for your need.
I was on a job a long time ago and the GC freaked when he was told by the electrician that he needed to use these.
They needed a bunch of them.Granted it was only an additional 250.00 or so.But this GC used to cry if he found a bent tico clip on the ground....


----------



## look171 (Mar 18, 2008)

thanks sparky for the link. 

I went to look for their products down at my local elec. supply house and of course they do not carry them. They call Ideal and they suggest using a special wire nut or a product called Noalox, also by Ideal. Yeap, they are 25 bucks a box. Little box. I am thinking that's my ticket. What do you guys think. Thanks for your input. Let my know if there are other tricks. Love to learn more.

Jeff


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

look171 said:


> thanks sparky for the link.
> 
> I went to look for their products down at my local elec. supply house and of course they do not carry them. They call Ideal and they suggest using a special wire nut or a product called Noalox, also by Ideal. Yeap, they are 25 bucks a box. Little box. I am thinking that's my ticket. What do you guys think. Thanks for your input. Let my know if there are other tricks. Love to learn more.
> 
> Jeff


See link in post #7.


----------



## look171 (Mar 18, 2008)

JumboJack said:


> See link in post #7.



Yep, those puppy are it. At 25 bucks per box, what a deal if you ask me. Thanks

Jeff


----------



## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

look171 said:


> Yep, those puppy are it. At 25 bucks per box, what a deal if you ask me. Thanks
> 
> Jeff



Last I looked....you'd get 5 for the $25 :shutup:

Pricey...but the other options are more expensive.


----------



## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> Yes, if you want to burn your house down, they react together and cause and corrode which makes a weak connection that increases resistance and gets nice and toasty.


You have fallen victim to the hype and exaggeration. If the "reaction" causes problems, why don't *all* the connections fail instead of a tiny portion of them?

God only knows how many MILLIONS of wirenuts are currently in use on AL splices every single day.

Ever wonder why *more* of the aluminum connections haven't failed?

A loose connection in an AL splice just burns more than one in a copper connection.

I live in a large metro area and started wiring houses when AL romex was in full swing. There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of homes here with AL wiring and I have worked in thousands (hundreds?) of them.

I pull apart existing wiring *all the time* and I don't see any more failure in properly installed AL systems than I do in copper systems. *One time*, out of thousands, I found a burned splice in a wirenut that was a good tight connection and this was on the ironing board recep.

The issues I see are generally attributed to _improper devices _installed. The screw terminals on copper only devices will indeed cause issues. The metal terminals may expand/contract at different rates causing them to loosen up in *some* cases.

The AL wire also gets damaged easily by _improper stripping techniques_ reulting in a compromised connection prone to failure.

The purple wire nuts are nothing more than wirenuts with nolox in them. There is nothing special about the alloy of the spring inside.

That said, if someone calls me to have their devices pigtailed, I will certainly do it. I use the purple nuts strictly for the liability/legal factor. If it were *my *house, I would simply pigtail with regular nuts and not lose a minutes sleep.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Any of you guys know if you can get these in the US? I have had a few moments where they would have been handy.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Any of you guys know if you can get these in the US? I have had a few moments where they would have been handy.


Are they listed for 600volts AC?


----------



## ampman (Apr 1, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Any of you guys know if you can get these in the US? I have had a few moments where they would have been handy.


 you might overfill the box with those


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Are they listed for 600volts AC?


 
Yep 600v AC upto about 30amps but i think they make them over 100amps for commercial applications. Twist type connectors are not allowed in UK so thats what they use over there. I do like the twist type though. A lot faster than choc blocks.


----------



## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

The Purple wirenuts are UL listed for this application and are about $2 each at HD


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

naptown CR said:


> The Purple wirenuts are UL listed for this application and are about $2 each at HD


5.00 ea in my neck of the woods...


----------



## Evapman (Mar 28, 2007)

I was told years ago by my electrical supplyer that Noalox would work to solve the reaction problems between copper and alumnium wire, been using it for along time and no problems, cept hard to get off fingers.


----------



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Evapman said:


> I was told years ago by my electrical supplyer that Noalox would work to solve the reaction problems between copper and alumnium wire, been using it for along time and no problems, cept hard to get off fingers.


You were told wrong. Noalox, or Deox, or whatever the name is, are _anti-oxidan_ts. It keeps the atmosphere from reacting with the aluminum and causing...... _oxidation_!


----------



## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

480sparky said:


> You were told wrong. Noalox, or Deox, or whatever the name is, are _anti-oxidan_ts. It keeps the atmosphere from reacting with the aluminum and causing...... _oxidation_!


It also is supposed to help reduce galling.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> _oxidation_!


I thought it was more of a galvanic reaction due to the different metals...not that it matters.



> Any of you guys know if you can get these in the US?


Looks like a chocoblock, I use em all the time for security and control systems (low volate only). I see them inside electronics all the time but I'm not sure if they are kosher for high-volatage here.


----------



## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Noalox® Anti-Oxidant Compound

Features
Anti-oxidant and anti-seizing compound
Reduces galling and seizing on aluminum conduit joints
Suspended zinc particles penetrate and cut aluminum oxide
Carrier material excludes air to prevent further oxidation
Improves service life of aluminum electrical applications


----------



## tccoggs (Dec 17, 2008)

Pretty much every house with an overhead service has copper to AL connections, they are right at the weatherhead, #6 AL to 2/0 copper if you have a 200A service. 

You would have to think this would be the worst place for oxidation and heat with all the weather it sees, and I"m sure that #6 AL gets pretty hot when loaded up. I wonder why we don't see more failures here.


----------



## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

tccoggs said:


> Pretty much every house with an overhead service has copper to AL connections, they are right at the weatherhead, #6 AL to 2/0 copper if you have a 200A service.
> 
> You would have to think this would be the worst place for oxidation and heat with all the weather it sees, and I"m sure that #6 AL gets pretty hot when loaded up. I wonder why we don't see more failures here.


Service connection drop terminiation problems are very common, but not only limited to copper to aluminum connections.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Most services I see in high rises use aluminum wire, covered in the paste, no copper pigtails. I think the heavy duty lug connectors used on the service entrace are far more positive then a wire nut.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Are they listed for 600volts AC?


Just went to lowes and was taking a look at electrical section and to my supprise these were in there. Not cheap though and made by ideal. $8 a block.

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/wire_termination/terminal_blocks_strips/barrier_strips.jsp


----------

