# Why is the HVAC suppliers so secretive?



## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

beenthere said:


> Auto dealerships seldom sell parts to people off the street. Thats why auto parts houses exist.


You're kidding me right? A lot of parts are only available from the dealer, such as things with very little common applications that they're not worth developing generic replacement for. Dealers always always have "parts counter" right along with their service department. 

Logo'd parts or parts with design factor are NEVER available as generic (such as badges, grille and any cosmetic pieces with protected intellectual property or trademark)


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Anti-wingnut said:


> I'm going to call BS on this one, a little too far fetched. I think your sales associate was just retelling a story he had heard


...

I responded to this, but then deleted it. Not worth my time.


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## dontgetinmyway (Apr 23, 2012)

svronthmve said:


> ...
> 
> I responded to this, but then deleted it. Not worth my time.


I responded to this response, deleted it. Not worth my time.

Debated posting at all, but realized I had to give the internet strangers insight into how highly I value my time.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Electric_Light said:


> You're kidding me right? A lot of parts are only available from the dealer, such as things with very little common applications that they're not worth developing generic replacement for. Dealers always always have "parts counter" right along with their service department.
> 
> Logo'd parts or parts with design factor are NEVER available as generic (such as badges, grille and any cosmetic pieces with protected intellectual property or trademark)


I wasn't talking about body parts.

Go get an OEM starter, or Alternator from a dealership to install yourself.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

beenthere said:


> I wasn't talking about body parts.
> 
> Go get an OEM starter, or Alternator from a dealership to install yourself.


If you want to spend what they charge you, go for it.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Electric_Light said:


> If you want to spend what they charge you, go for it.


The point is, they don't sell parts to DIYers. Its not just the HVAC trade.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Electric_Light said:


> What's that have anything to do with it? Car jacks are not designed to hold a car up indefinitely and sometimes, the valve becomes worn out. Since jacks are not fail safe, you're not supposed to work under the car when its only held up by a jack.
> 
> People have done it, and have died.
> 
> If it was the HVAC industry, their solution would be to form a supply chain where DIYers can not buy jacks or vehicle parts, because their reasoning would if parts were unavailable the DIYer wouldn't have attempted and if jacks weren't available, misuse wouldn't have occurred.


Some of it has to do with certain contractors soaking people hard on parts and not wanting competition and supply houses catering to them.
Some of it is liability issues from ambulance chasing lawyers wanting to sue people for anything,if you sell somebody whos unqualified a gas valve and they blow up there house with a bunch of people in it how long do you think it would be the lawyers were lined up down the street.
Some of it has to do with those city/state/federal idiots who go out of there way to make things complicated for the rest of us while securing themselves a life long job at the trough.
Take your pick


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Electric_Light said:


> I think that is the only reason. It doesn't explain why its limited to this trade though. I think its along the line of the tradespeople not having enough competitive advantage to support themselves without artificial protection like this, whether its a perception or reality, I have no idea. I think this is an honest reasoning than safety blurb.
> 
> How about voided warranty on the entire system over how it was procured or who did the install? I think its just an arbitrary hurdle, because people in that trade have perceived or real fear the risk of substitution by DIYers.
> 
> ...


Give em yime,if they could hire enough people to regulate it im sure they would! :laughing:


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Big Shoe said:


> That's crazy...............I've never been turned away from any electrical supply house yet.
> 
> The only place I was ever treated like a lowlife was that one a/c supply house that would'nt sell me the grilles. Some of my a/c buddies even tell me they are real jerks too!
> 
> ...


Go to an electrical or plumbing supply house in omaha ne to the contractor sales area and see how fast theyll send you over to the other side of the building where the public shops/showroom if youre not a contractor! :laughing:


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## greenleafmech (Feb 19, 2012)

Electric_Light said:


> Tsk Tsk. You need to go back and read the Clean Air Act then.
> 
> It requires a certification to purchase Class I and II ODS. Non ozone depleting refrigerants do not.
> 
> It is ILLEGAL to vent ANY refrigerant, but then, it's illegal to dump used oil down the drain too, yet there is no restriction on the sale of motor oil.


TSK TSK TSK. He's talking about someone that has no idea what a high pressure refrigerant will do to him if he doesn't use his brain, or has no idea what he's doing, which he probably doesn't. That's why you will NEVER see such high pressure refrigerant sold at HD. Use your brain and see it like most big chains will, a liability.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

If someone comes in and asks for what they need with the correct terminology and no questions, I will give it to them. If someone comes in with questions and incorrect terminology, then I will still sell it to them, but won't help them other than providing a number for a contractor. And that is for something safe like masonry.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> If someone comes in and asks for what they need with the correct terminology and no questions, I will give it to them. If someone comes in with questions and incorrect terminology, then I will still sell it to them, but won't help them other than providing a number for a contractor. And that is for something safe like masonry.


Under that setting though, they might as well eliminate a good number of counter guys and invest in web site and inventory management.

If orders can be placed online for pick-up there'd be no need to take phone orders as much and it would give market access to DIYers and others nationwide. Click-Click-Click... and someone packs the order and they're ready for the brown truck the next day.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Not really, I spend a lot of time with architects and contractors (actual contractors, not one-off homebuilders) working on specifications and solutions to specific problems.

It isn't hard to tell the difference between them and a homeowner.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

plummen said:


> some of it has to do with certain contractors soaking people hard on parts and not wanting competition and supply houses catering to them.


bingo!

There's a thread about price to charge R22. In the thread, you'll see HVAC guys talk about charging as much as $100/lb. That was back in the days of $5/lb in 30lb cylinder unit. 

These contractors don't want the public to know the purchase price.

There is an HVAC only forum somewhere and discussion of price is actually PROHIBITED in publicly viewable sections. Yep, that's a reflection of their culture.


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## plummen (Jan 9, 2010)

Electric_Light said:


> bingo!


But at the same time those wonderfull people on the omaha city council voted for an ordinance requiring everybody in the city of omaha who buys hvac parts from local supply houses have a city of omaha journeyman installers license.
Which many of us in the area was pushed for by a couple of the bigger local crooks:whistling


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

plummen said:


> But at the same time those wonderfull people on the omaha city council voted for an ordinance requiring everybody in the city of omaha who buys hvac parts from local supply houses have a city of omaha journeyman installers license.
> Which many of us in the area was pushed for by a couple of the bigger local crooks:whistling


Then, the solution is to minimize the utilization of local brick & mortar shops.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Electric_Light said:


> While you can't expect R717 Will Call, payable in cash, I don't know of good reason for how uptight they're about everything else.
> 
> You can order piston rods from any auto dealership, yet HVAC supply house won't even give a price on furnace lid, let alone buy without having an established account with them.
> 
> They have one of the strongest anti DIY culture, but why? What's with the lack of transparency?


The real question is why aren't the plumbing and electrical houses the same way?


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Electric_Light said:


> While you can't expect R717 Will Call, payable in cash, I don't know of good reason for how uptight they're about everything else.
> 
> You can order piston rods from any auto dealership, yet HVAC supply house won't even give a price on furnace lid, let alone buy without having an established account with them.
> 
> They have one of the strongest anti DIY culture, but why? What's with the lack of transparency?


The USA is the tort capital of the known universe, and you are asking this question?


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> The USA is the tort capital of the known universe, and you are asking this question?


Give me a good explanation why they'll hand you a full bottle of acetylene without layers of proof of workers comp at Linde, hazmat training and a 2,300 psi O2 to go with it, but not a cylinder of R410A at HVAC "supply house". 


Threat of competition by DIY far outweighs the superficial hazard argument.


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## dontgetinmyway (Apr 23, 2012)

Electric_Light said:


> Give me a good explanation why they'll hand you a full bottle of acetylene without layers of proof of workers comp at Linde, hazmat training and a 2,300 psi O2 to go with it


Please don't put ideas in their heads - it won't be long.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

dontgetinmyway said:


> Please don't put ideas in their heads - it won't be long.


Don't think it's an issue anyways, because despite the claims made here, it really isn't about safety here. Unlike installing most HVAC parts, welding with acetylene tend to require a bit more skills. So, skilled welders fear their reason for existence is threatened by DIYers.

I think they don't feel to hide behind safety crusade to avoid having to say "A lot of what we do is not skilled work and I fear losing out to DIYers and handymen" 


A lot of install manuals are bilingual English/Espanol which tells me "ability to read and write in English" is not a necessity.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Why do you come to this site and insult us on a regular basis. You go to a wholesale house and cry to us that they don't sell to you. In some cases, the suppliers are using the safety thing as a crutch, and in some cases there could be a potential liability issue. Nonetheless, if you really want the part, you can get it, just not at the wholesale rate.

Just about every business has the right to refuse service to anyone. If you are crying Balderdash on the safety thing, I agree. But I would be more inclined to say they likely don't want to sell to you. 

If you want them to do business with them, order about $1,000.00 worth of various parts (non refundable) and materials. I bet they will serve you then.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Trollin, trollin, trollin on Contractortalk. LOL


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Well, it's fine if it's of value to the forum. For example, the comment about installing the condensing unit indoors, could have some merit. It certainly is an idea worth experimenting with. 

However, the topic of a wholesaler not selling to a non ___ is not worth four pages of commentary


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

flashheatingand said:


> However, the topic of a wholesaler not selling to a non ___ is not worth four pages of commentary


Agreed.

Thread closed.


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