# Basement Excavations



## SHeritage (Mar 28, 2017)

Hello , New to the group and looking for help.
I am looking for some general information on basement Excavations. Specifically i was approached by one of my home builders that i do their basement finishes to look at excavating for them. As i have previous experience in heavy civil. The question is on the bidding process itself and they would like to see A four line item bid consisting of ;

a. mass ex
b. backfill
c. rough grade
d. finish grade 

My location is in and around Denver, Co and areas north. Any information could be useful in making a competitive bid would be appreciated.


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## Bull Trout (Dec 6, 2016)

SHeritage said:


> Any information could be useful in making a competitive bid would be appreciated.


know your costs, bid accordingly 

and welcome


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

Don't dig yourself into a corner, literally.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

dayexco said:


> Don't dig yourself into a corner, literally.


I say this, because one the very first basement excavations I did on a crowded lot, I did. 

Had to hire a loader and some trucks to dig me outta there.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Welcome to the site.

I don't know how things are out in Denver, but around here the guys doing the digs on the tract home projects are working for less $ than we were doing Dig, backfill, fine grade in the mid 1980's.

They have driven the prices down to a level that I don't know how these guys stay in business. I've been told the excavation contractors are bidding the site work low with hope of getting some better paying T&M work that they can hit the builders with to make some kind of profit.

No thanks....

I haven't worked new home production type stuff for many years.


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## farmboy555 (Aug 13, 2006)

I would T&M work all I could. Get your feet wet. Around here you never know if your going to hit rock and how big it may be.
But whatever you do base your price on your cost, not by whatever some other contractors are charging


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Excavation contractors pretty much set up a price with a builder they doing the work for and it becomes general guideline per job or a development and you adjust the rate pretty much from there for anything extra. This way everyone is on the same page. 

So you have to come up with a number that works for you to cover your overhead, material, and profit. As an example, if a builder needs a backhoe for a day+operator = so much... if the builder needs you provide additional laborer it will be extra. If he needs a track-hoe+operator = so much, with another laborer it will be extra, and if he needs a truck or two running hauling dirt it will be so much per load extra, etc.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

only way i did residential was total cost. it was all my job, or i wanted none of it.

we stripped site and stockpiled topsoil, excavated basement/garage footings, installed water/sewer laterals, place granular material over owner supplied/installed drain tile, backfill and compact basement overdig, backfill and compact garage slab subgrade to 1" +/-, get driveway/sidewalks subgrade to within 1" +/- ...leave site.

wait for call when all concrete is poured, return and place all topsoil and haul away any excess material from basement excavation.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

farmboy555 said:


> I would T&M work all I could. Get your feet wet. Around here you never know if your going to hit rock and how big it may be.
> But whatever you do base your price on your cost, not by whatever some other contractors are charging


i like the part of not charging what some other contractors are charging...but, T&M scares the hell out of me as a homeowner, and as a contractor. 

i guess it boils down to this wording you say in a lot of spec books..and this is NOT verbatim.

contractor shall familiarize himself with conditions of site and bid accordingly.

i fully understand if you have an existing water/sewer line that needs repair...you don't really know until you get it exposed. 

i guess as a consumer, i don't like surprises...i want to know what stuff is going to cost. i want to know the worst case scenario. don't lowball me to get the job, and try to change order your way into a profit.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

R.S. Means annual cost books, well worth the money ~100-150.00$
Your equipment dealer 
Your Accountant...
Regulatory density....
Greenfield vs brownfield, roads
Access to spoil storage, lay down soil banks with in X miles...or yards
Risks

many local larger excavators dig the hole at cost and profit from reselling the "waste"/spoil.....

There are tens of thousands of medium sized excavators rusting away across America..
Can you underbid some one with Zero machine hour costs other than operator and fuel?

Most likely you were approached by a semi-organized contractor that can't plan ahead a couple of months, or doesn't have the capital to spend in a timely fashion. 
If there isn't much of a constant delay hiring a digger after the frost comes out, the local market is probably saturated.

I'd look long and hard at Partnering up with some nearby excavator that under utilizes their equipment....


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

Fouthgeneration said:


> many local larger excavators dig the hole at cost and profit from reselling the "waste"/spoil......


you really think that happens? what if there were no market for the spoils? i think it'd be better to bid/expect your needed profit from all phases of your project...and any extra money that comes out of it takes you to the bahamas...or puts you up front at celine dione's show in vegas.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Why does he want it broken down? Is he thinking he will hire someone for the excavating and then hire someone else for the backfill?

I ask for a bid on excavating, backfill, and rough grade, combined. For the finish grade, I leave that for the landscapers. 
Since we have a skid loader, our "rough grade" is pretty slick. I like it to look good when people drive by.

I've never had anyone haul away the excess for free. They charge to haul away the excess and then charge when they re-sell it.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Many a near worthless ravine or swampy floodplain lot magically fills in over the course of a few years and ends up as a prime piece of land near or in a growing community.... 

In population dropping areas, not so much.....


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

builditguy said:


> Why does he want it broken down? Is he thinking he will hire someone for the excavating and then hire someone else for the backfill?
> 
> I ask for a bid on excavating, backfill, and rough grade, combined. For the finish grade, I leave that for the landscapers.
> .


only way i did residential was...i want it all, or none of it. with 3 different crews doing different phases, scheduling is a nightmare, something gets backed into, wall gets bowed, and final guy ends up completing, or redoing work by the contractor before him that didn't perform. then the finger pointing starts...and who pays for what.

it's a trainwreck.

my GC's knew every spring what my unit prices were, and from prior job history with them had a very good handle on where my final invoice was going to be. we never had issues.


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## bwiab (Mar 17, 2006)

Do you have an excavator?
Do you have an operator?
Do you have a dump truck or a relationship with guys who do?
Do you have vibratory compactors?

If you don't, how can you be competitive with those who do?

Do you have insurance that covers earthworks? or just remodeling? Soils in Denver are a nightmare.

As a homebuilder, I would want to see your unit costs and quantities. In addition to the list you mention, I would add #5 Haul off. 

Not sure why a builder would ask a remodeler to do his excavation? Seems like a recipe for disaster. 

What does your previous experience in heavy civil tell you?


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## tedhtt26 (Jun 7, 2017)

An excavation risk that you might want to consider is that whether you are going hit those underground buried utility lines. You might want to get in contact with a utility locating company to avoid that. If you do need that service, I recommend Penhall Company since they have been around in the construction industry for 60 years. Their website is: removed


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