# Point lasers



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I walked into a Hilti center today and looked at their lasers. I was looking at this point laser.








It cost *$394.83*

I asked him why it cost so much more than the Stanley lasers, he said these are more accurate. Then he looked it up in his catalog and said this laser is accurate to 1/8" in 30'.

So I left and looked at this Stanley point laser at Home Depot.








This one cost *$199.00*

And they advertise the accuracy at 1/4" in 100', which is the same as 1/8" in 50'. That is not less accurate than the Hilti at 1/8" in 30'.
I am confused at the differences, is there any reason to pay more for the Hilti one?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

One Word: Service.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

True Hilti offers a warranty, but I don't see how that would affect their lasers. Their warranty only covers use from wear and tear, not abuse, so if you dropped it they wouldn't fix it. And I don't see how you could put wear and tear on a laser, all you ever do with it is let it sit there.


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## DrewD (Jun 10, 2007)

Check this out.








Accuracy +/- 1/8 inch at 100' and toolup.com has a special for only $351.00. It includes carrying case, pouch, floor target, and wall bracket. I have the PLS90 and have had no problems with it.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Whats the advantages of these lasers? I use a auto level rotary one quite often but am wondering what these can do and are they worth a purchase if i allready have a roatary laser?


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Whats the advantages of these lasers? I use a auto level rotary one quite often but am wondering what these can do and are they worth a purchase if i allready have a roatary laser?


 They are cheaper, faster to set up, can shoot a 90, and can shoot plumb. They are good mainly for smaller projects, if you're someone who does foundations or excavating all the time, then the rotary laser would be the way to go.


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## BillD (Jun 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Whats the advantages of these lasers? I use a auto level rotary one quite often but am wondering what these can do and are they worth a purchase if i allready have a roatary laser?


I have pinned a lot of footings and they make it easier than doing it with levels.

Bill


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## MikeNeufeld (Sep 23, 2007)

plslaser.com

Good lasers( dropped mine a couple of times ) they are accurate to and 1/8" over 100' and are durable.

I see Stabila's lasers are so pricey, yet they dont compete spec wise with pls, leica or any others ( dont mean to hijack the thread ) curious as too why this is?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Hilti offers a calibration service for their laser tools.

Stanley can't even make a tape measure, hammer or level properly, why would I ever trust their point laser?


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## MikeNeufeld (Sep 23, 2007)

At least Hilti understands that they do not make the best laser if they offer this cali service!!!


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

DrewD said:


> Check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When these 5 beam lasers first came out about 8 years ago or so I bought one from a company called Robo Vector. Mine does'nt have the indent in it for plumbing walls. It came with a gauge target to place beside the top plate for plumbing walls. Never used it for plumbing walls as it seemed like too much of a hassle. 

When snapping lines on a very cut-up foundation this tool came in handy. I would snap lines after pulling paralell's then place the laser at the corners to establish 90 degree angles. Remember this was only used on very cut-up stuff. I would have one guy at each corner of the 90 holding a speed square on the foundation and rotate the laser till it hit both points and adjust accordingly.

Sure I can do the math but this method was much quicker. The first few times I tried this I checked lines for square and it was allways on. 

Works for me.


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## MikeNeufeld (Sep 23, 2007)

Lasers have been so good for what I do in trim carpentry, railings, columns and cabinatry. Pls LAsers are alway's on the job, never have failures and they are very accurate... 

Would recommend over alot of companies...


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## strathd (Jan 12, 2009)

Another way I have used it is for laying out ceramic tile in an old house. When the room is'nt parallel or square you can set the laser down and move it around till you find the best layout. In cases like this it's all about reveal at the walls and making it look the best you can.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I think that extra accuracy with the PLS lasers would be worth the price. But I wonder if they are really telling the truth with their 1/8" to 100'. Maybe Hilti is just honest, so they call it 1/8" in 30'.

I was also thinking of just getting the PMC 36 combilaser:









This one cost $557.24 and is accurate to 1/16" in 30', and shoots lines as well as dots. The lines would be nice, the dots sometimes can be a pain trying to find them. You need one guy with a scrap piece of plywood or something to find it, then a second guy to turn the laser. But with the lines, you could find it easy with one person.


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## MikeNeufeld (Sep 23, 2007)

go shoot that line from around 30 feet on a pls 180, take a level over to that line and i will garentee u absolute accuracy!!!... Hilti is like mercedes, It looks good, works well and are durable, but you sure pay a helluva alot up front when the lexus does the same trick ( more economically ) imo.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

MikeNeufeld said:


> go shoot that line from around 30 feet on a pls 180, take a level over to that line and i will garentee u absolute accuracy!!!... Hilti is like mercedes, It looks good, works well and are durable, but you sure pay a helluva alot up front when the lexus does the same trick ( more economically ) imo.


It probably would be if you checked it that way. I've always wondered how they check or calibrate laser and transit levels. I was on a job once where we had a transit level that fell off a trailer, and we were using it to frame a stepped foundation. We were wondering if it was really accurate and were trying to think of ways to check it, like comparing it with a water level. I don't see how you would check it when you're comparing it with a 30' or 100' distance. When buying a brand new one, I don't know if that would really matter in my work, but I would feel better knowing I had the more accurate tool.


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## XanadooLTD (Oct 6, 2007)

The combi is one bad mama jamma. It shoots the lines from the side to the front. That with the red glasses and you will see perfectly outside even. I guess great for tiling, etc. ALmost like a rotary as you get the 180 degree.


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

KennMacMoragh said:


> It probably would be if you checked it that way. I've always wondered how they check or calibrate laser and transit levels. I was on a job once where we had a transit level that fell off a trailer, and we were using it to frame a stepped foundation. We were wondering if it was really accurate and were trying to think of ways to check it, like comparing it with a water level. I don't see how you would check it when you're comparing it with a 30' or 100' distance. When buying a brand new one, I don't know if that would really matter in my work, but I would feel better knowing I had the more accurate tool.


 
To check it you do what is called a "two peg test". This will work for optical and laser instruments, and is easy to do. Just do a web search for a "two peg test".


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

I believe Hilti also has a repair price cap. You only pay so much, no more.

Will Stanley even repair a laser?


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

The two peg test makes sense, interesting. I ordered the PLS5 one, I'm pretty convinced now it's the way to go.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Double-A said:


> I believe Hilti also has a repair price cap. You only pay so much, no more.


Correct, even on items long out of warranty, or damaged not covered by warranty, you pay roughly 1/3 the cost of the current replacement model, if it can't be fixed for that amount you get a new tool. I know of no power tool company that stands behind their product the way Hilti does.


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## DrewD (Jun 10, 2007)

I have this laser for squaring up foundations and slabs.








I have checked this laser on a large open subfloor and at 100' it was less than 1/8" on the diagonal to square. I haven't found another laser on the market that can accurately layout two perpendicular lines like this one. I don't have a five beam laser (yet) but I wouldn't consider any other one than the PLS brand. I have never had any problems with mine, therefore I don't have the need for amazing service work. Consider, do you need to pay more for a less accurate laser for better service when it goes down, or pay less for a more accurate laser that is less prone to breaking? My two cents.


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## Aiken Colon (Jul 14, 2008)

Bosch GPL5 GPL5E 

Bosch DLR165K 

Buy them together for $299.00. No body can beat those prices. 

On a side note, Bosch recently purchased CST/Berger. They make really good laser systems as well.

JJ


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

We have owned several of these lasers over the last few years. We find new things to use them for all the time. I plumb walls, square up tall walls,check floors for level, and my personal favorite, plumbing basement walls. Makes it a one man job. Just set the laser on the concrete at the wall intersection, insert your blocking, and mark the corner all in one easy step. These can be a little hard to see in bright sunlight but there's no way I can ever work without one again, I am ruined.


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## MikeNeufeld (Sep 23, 2007)

*Yes!!!*



warren said:


> we have owned several of these lasers over the last few years. We find new things to use them for all the time. I plumb walls, square up tall walls,check floors for level, and my personal favorite, plumbing basement walls. Makes it a one man job. Just set the laser on the concrete at the wall intersection, insert your blocking, and mark the corner all in one easy step. These can be a little hard to see in bright sunlight but there's no way i can ever work without one again, i am ruined.


agreed!!!


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## Aiken Colon (Jul 14, 2008)

Warren said:


> We have owned several of these lasers over the last few years. We find new things to use them for all the time. I plumb walls, square up tall walls,check floors for level, and my personal favorite, plumbing basement walls. Makes it a one man job. Just set the laser on the concrete at the wall intersection, insert your blocking, and mark the corner all in one easy step. These can be a little hard to see in bright sunlight but there's no way I can ever work without one again, I am ruined.


Warren,

Most of the manufactures make light amplification plates. Those will make it easier to see in the summer. Those red glasses they sell will also help.

JJ


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Anyone got any good vids or tutorials of how these beam lasers can be used. I'm trying to picture it but cant lol


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

BCConstruction said:


> Anyone got any good vids or tutorials of how these beam lasers can be used. I'm trying to picture it but cant lol


These things are self leveling. You set them on the floor and it instantly levels itself and 4 or 5 beams shoot out. up, down,straight ahead, right/left.
My dewalt shoots the level beams out at exactly 3 inches above where it sits. So if I was checking a floor for level, I set it in a corner, and go to other corners and set the end of my tape down on the floor. If the beam crosses at 3 inches, It is level at that spot. Repeat for rest of room. You have to set them on somewhat of a level surface or they will blink, telling you they are not leveling. For plumb, most have a notch molded into the base that you can push up against say a bottom plate and adjust your top wall plate until the beam hits it,nail the brace, and voila! Plumb!


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## MikeNeufeld (Sep 23, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ARNhX3om4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UznFtLJtpNY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ex0_F0yzHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4YoYl2oc2g

here's a few


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## MikeNeufeld (Sep 23, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJwW9PBaifM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DndQRPiN7_c


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Cheers Mike. I have the AccuLine Pro rotary Self-Leveling model but it only has the upper plumb laser. I aint even needed to use that so i guess these beam laser wont do much more than my rotary already does for my needs. I use mine for laying out tile and flooring mainly. 

I could really use a laser square though.


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## Hardly Working (Apr 7, 2005)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I am confused at the differences, is there any reason to pay more for the Hilti one?


Hummm................ Quality maybe? 

I've used the Stanley and it's okay but not all it's cracked up to be. Don't bang it around much or it's going to be out of wack real fast.

Hilti, PLS, Stablia it's in the optics that sets them apart.


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## heretohelpyou (Aug 13, 2009)

Aiken Colon said:


> Warren,
> 
> Most of the manufactures make light amplification plates. Those will make it easier to see in the summer. Those red glasses they sell will also help.
> 
> JJ



Hey can you email me had a quick question about Salesgenie.
[email protected]


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Anyone got any good vids or tutorials of how these beam lasers can be used. I'm trying to picture it but cant lol


 I used it to straighten a ledger for a deck, beats using a rotary laser.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Well i been looking at some more lazers after i checked this thread and im gonna order the Dewalt DW060k. Cant say these lasers on here are gonna do anything my rotary cant do at the moment. Plus for what i do the rotary is perfect. levels at 360 degree's for tileing and laying out deck frames is what my rotoray is perfect for.


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## Cabdoctor (Oct 23, 2008)

I really wish more companies offered lasers like the PLS 90 that shot two fans at 90degs and worked with detectors. :-( I hope dewalt is listening


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## I LOVE TOOLS (Jun 10, 2009)

Cabdoctor said:


> I really wish more companies offered lasers like the PLS 90 that shot two fans at 90degs and worked with detectors. :-( I hope dewalt is listening


Seriously? Why would you ever want Dewalt make anything like this! They make crap lasers and crap quality. They might have an ok chop saw but that's about it. Their cordless sucks, breakers, hammer drills, lasers, screw guns etc.


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## I LOVE TOOLS (Jun 10, 2009)

Lasers that are more expensive are more expensive because it relates to the prisms they use to produce the laser beam. More expensive lasers use a longer lasting prisms that is/should be more accurate. You get what you pay for. This is about one of the only tools (lasers) that have gotten cheaper and more accurate over the past years. It's now cheaper to produce a better beam. Green lasers are finally affordable now, 4 to 5 times as bright, great for interior work!


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## nadonailer (Nov 15, 2005)

PLS are the best I've tried, wouldn't be without them. great for layout on footings on a house or for decks. They make an audio receiver that attaches to a pole and beeps when at the correct height, that way you don't need to see the beam outdoors...


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I LOVE TOOLS said:


> Seriously? Why would you ever want Dewalt make anything like this! They make crap lasers and crap quality. They might have an ok chop saw but that's about it. Their cordless sucks, breakers, hammer drills, lasers, screw guns etc.


Dewalt do infact make some good lasers. Not the best by far but I own the DW060k and it's more accurate than what they say it is and it's tuff. I looked at the PLS90 but at another $100 i didnt think it offered any more than the dewalt offered. I also wouldnt go as far as to say there cordless suck. They aint the best again but they are far from sucking.


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## Mrmac204 (Dec 27, 2006)

I have a pls 180, and it works with the Leica detector. I wouldn't belive it, neither did the sales guy- so I took my pls into the dealer, and we tried the Leica- bingo! beeps, flashes etc. at $100 cheaper than the $250 pls reciever.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Mrmac204 said:


> I have a pls 180, and it works with the Leica detector. I wouldn't belive it, neither did the sales guy- so I took my pls into the dealer, and we tried the Leica- bingo! beeps, flashes etc. at $100 cheaper than the $250 pls reciever.


Any laser should work with any detector. $250 is a bit steep for a detector. $100 is more like it.


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