# Choosing a new van



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

rrk said:


> Problems with the eco boost engines are now soaring. Excessive carbon build up is causing misfires and LHM conditions and the only way to rectify it is to replace the heads. Can't clean them because the cleaner will destroy the oil seals in the turbo.



All high performance engines have this issue. It's nothing new. There's been systems like terraclean available for a while now and they work very well. My engines meant to be done at about 100k miles.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Same here, but next time I'm getting power windows and locks.


Agreed 100% plane jane is fine but manual windows and locks sucks...nothing worse than hitting the highway and hearing the high pitch whisle of the passenger door window barely cracked open knowing that you cant reach the crank while driving. Or windows down and it starts raining..And every time you park somewhere you have to walk around to the passenger door to lock it


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## going_commando (Feb 19, 2013)

The Euro vans are awesome, but there are a ton of 1 year old Ford E-250s out there with 6,000-12,000 miles on them with a cargo partition, cloth seats, A/C, power windows, and power locks out there. We got one in late 2014 with 6,000 miles for $22,000. I think they were former Uhaul vans, but they don't have enough miles on them to be beat on. We've had great luck with ours, and it makes us money. It can be an easy way to save $10,000+ on a new van. Just another option to think about. I would way prefer a mid roof Transit or some such, but the math can be kind of a bear to deal with sometimes.


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## ace_3s3s3s (Jan 19, 2016)

Thanks, guys.

We just had over 2' of snow here on Long Island and that got me thinking - I'm used to an SUV with AWD, and it plows through anything. How good is the FWD Promaster, and perhaps more importantly, how is the Ford Transit (RWD) in the snow?

TIA


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## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

If it's anything like the ford econolines, put your seatbelt on. 


Gary


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## going_commando (Feb 19, 2013)

I can't vouch for the Promaster, but I've been driving RWD vans through NH winters for years, and with studded snows on the back and mud/snows on the front they do pretty well. Stay on paved roads and plowed dirt roads and you're golden. Just get a set of steel wheels, slap your snow tires on them, and swap them out for winter. You would be surprised how well a van with studded snows and traction control can do on snowy/icey roads.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

ace_3s3s3s said:


> Thanks, guys.
> 
> We just had over 2' of snow here on Long Island and that got me thinking - I'm used to an SUV with AWD, and it plows through anything. How good is the FWD Promaster, and perhaps more importantly, how is the Ford Transit (RWD) in the snow?
> 
> TIA


If you want to spend the money...
http://www.quigley4x4.com/Quigley-Products/Quigley-4x4-Ford-Transit-Vans/4x4-Models
http://www.quadvan.com/4x4-contractor-vans


gbruzze1 said:


> If it's anything like the ford econolines, put your seatbelt on.
> 
> 
> Gary


ROTFLMAO

(My seat belt has saved my life, so I am a believer.)



going_commando said:


> I think they were former Uhaul vans, but they don't have enough miles on them to be beat on.


Previous rental vehicles for sale are no more beat on then my own vehicle *shrugs* I would buy one after inspecting it. They keep them clean and perform the scheduled services. Run the numbers out including fuel economy differences. Most often it is in the used vehicles favor, but that also isn't as much fun. 



Windycity said:


> Agreed 100% plane jane is fine but manual windows and locks sucks...nothing worse than hitting the highway and hearing the high pitch whisle of the passenger door window barely cracked open knowing that you cant reach the crank while driving. Or windows down and it starts raining..And every time you park somewhere you have to walk around to the passenger door to lock it


My friend has a nice GMC Sierra, with zero features. The rubber floor is great! The manual windows and door locks suck! A water bottle works for locking and unlocking the opposite side door. 



going_commando said:


> I can't vouch for the Promaster, but I've been driving RWD vans through NH winters for years, and with studded snows on the back and mud/snows on the front they do pretty well. Stay on paved roads and plowed dirt roads and you're golden. Just get a set of steel wheels, slap your snow tires on them, and swap them out for winter. You would be surprised how well a van with studded snows and traction control can do on snowy/icey roads.


That is what most Northerners do. Two sets of wheels.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

LI-Remodeler said:


> Here's my take on work vans. They are work vans so don't fall in love with them and don't purchase the most expensive. Use them and abuse them. Make money with them. I'm now in a Chevy Express 2500 purchased new with zero bells and whistles. That's right it has crank windows. It's a tool box on wheels, no more no less. I never purchase with organizers, shelving etc.. Just give me an empty shell with ladder racks. Milk crates are cheap organizers


I'm just the opposite if it has an option available I'll probably want it, I spend a lot of time in it, drive it daily so I don't abuse it and treat it as a toolbox. I even have an amp and 10" speakers behind my seats.

I also don't use the dash as a filing cabinet. I guess it's save to assume no one should buy any of your used work vehicles.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> All high performance engines have this issue. It's nothing new. There's been systems like terraclean available for a while now and they work very well. My engines meant to be done at about 100k miles.


My neighbor is have his replaced under warranty at 40k miles, multiple cylinder misfires.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

rrk said:


> My neighbor is have his replaced under warranty at 40k miles, multiple cylinder misfires.



Did he have it terracleaned first or did they not even have that available?


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

For a work van I have no issues spending 3 grand beating on it for a year or two selling it to the scrap yard for 300$ and off to the next one.

As the driver I don't have time to play with the big fancy screen or 6 million buttons.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

rrk said:


> My neighbor is have his replaced under warranty at 40k miles, multiple cylinder misfires.


What year? In what vehicle? How is it used? Lots of idle time? What is the dealship doing to it? 

FWIW Dealerships make money from warranty work. Slow shop = do more lower paying warranty work, even if it doesn't need to be done. The stories I could tell...

Ford STILL has a problem with spark plugs causing misfires 

The exerts below are from this article that I posted prior. 
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...a-problem-with-direct-injection-engines-.html

~These engines have been on the market for a number of years now and to get some empirical evidence from the front lines about how they’re holding up we reached out to Brian Laskowski, a Ford Factory Certified Technician. He also has a YouTube channel, FordTechMakuloco that highlights all sorts of automotive repairs.

Responding via e-mail Laskowski said, “*Carbon deposits in Ford engines are not a widespread issue* due to the advanced engine technology.” But he also mentioned that *it has happened in some low-mileage EcoBoost units*.~ (The engines could have been idled for a long time and it doesn't state whether it was the discontinued 2.0L, or any other EcoBoost, than the 3.5L for that matter.)

~As for the long-term reliability of engines with direct injection, only time will tell if carbon buildup is a serious issue. *But for the most part it seems like an isolated problem, at least at this time.*

When asked if he’d hesitate to purchase a vehicle with DI because of this issue Karesh said no. “*I’m not seeing it for anything after 2010 or so*.”~

ALL VEHICLES today are built to require repairs. That is how the manufacturer and dealerships make money. Most people don't realize a dealership makes more money on mechanical repairs and body work than selling new and used vehicles put together.

Brand loyalty :whistling


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Peter_C said:


> ALL VEHICLES today are built to require repairs. That is how the manufacturer and dealerships make money. Most people don't realize a dealership makes more money on mechanical repairs and body work than selling new and used vehicles put together.
> 
> Brand loyalty :whistling


I dont think your statement is accurate. Dealerships charge the manufacturer for warranty work therefore costing the manufacturer money. Chevy/ford/dodge would not design anything to fail causing them to lose money due to warranty work. Yes i agree with the fact that dealerships make good money in the service/parts department though. There is a huge markup with parts


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## going_commando (Feb 19, 2013)

SectorSecurity said:


> For a work van I have no issues spending 3 grand beating on it for a year or two selling it to the scrap yard for 300$ and off to the next one.
> 
> As the driver I don't have time to play with the big fancy screen or 6 million buttons.


I'll take a new or year old van with a warranty, keep it for 10 years, then sell it to somebody for $3000 after it made 70-100 times its purchase price during it's useful life. It's awesome not having to constantly wrench on the fricken thing to keep it on the road, and power windows and doorlocks are awesome. Plus, I just put in a new stereo that has bluetooth with a mic, so I get hands free phone calls and play my music via bluetooth with less of a spiderweb of cables. I'm a fan, to say the least.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm all about a nicer newer vehicle with a few upgrades. Including idle time, my average speed is 35mph. On my current vehicle with 213,000 miles, that's 3 full time years worth of sitting in the drivers seat. Might as well have a little better comfort, even if it does cost $1 an hour more.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

going_commando said:


> I'll take a new or year old van with a warranty, keep it for 10 years, then sell it to somebody for $3000 after it made 70-100 times its purchase price during it's useful life. It's awesome not having to constantly wrench on the fricken thing to keep it on the road, and power windows and doorlocks are awesome. Plus, I just put in a new stereo that has bluetooth with a mic, so I get hands free phone calls and play my music via bluetooth with less of a spiderweb of cables. I'm a fan, to say the least.


+1 especially when you spend alot of time and money organizing it. I alway buy new and drive it til it needs to be towed out of my driveway. Most of my vehicles i keep for 11-14 years so yea it sucks paying for a new vehicle but after its paid off i still have a decent vehicle for years to come.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Peter_C said:


> What year? In what vehicle? How is it used? Lots of idle time? What is the dealship doing to it?
> 
> FWIW Dealerships make money from warranty work. Slow shop = do more lower paying warranty work, even if it doesn't need to be done. The stories I could tell...
> 
> ...


I think its a 2012 and he drives like an old woman, lots of idling and short slow trips. 
Service tech told me when I had EGR valve replaced on my sprinter to drive it like I stole it. Gets rid of all the carbon buildup which messes up MB engine.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

Windycity said:


> I dont think your statement is accurate. Dealerships charge the manufacturer for warranty work therefore costing the manufacturer money. Chevy/ford/dodge would not design anything to fail causing them to lose money due to warranty work. Yes i agree with the fact that dealerships make good money in the service/parts department though. There is a huge markup with parts


The manufacturer can write off any repairs performed under warranty. To a corporation write offs are a good thing. Plus as you suggest to the manufacturer the parts are cheap, and the labor is discounted. The dealerships DO often charge the manufacturer for work that doesn't need to be done. I used to do training seminars with the GM warranty rep, and had many eye opening conversations. Dexcool and a Ph of 8.1...hmmm. We all wore a lot of hats. 



rrk said:


> I think its a 2012 and he drives like an old woman, lots of idling and short slow trips.
> Service tech told me when I had EGR valve replaced on my sprinter to drive it like I stole it. Gets rid of all the carbon buildup which messes up MB engine.


Well at least his rig is under warranty and the repairs are no cost to him 

The Sprinter has it's own share of issues. It is one of the few vehicles an extended warranty might not be a bad idea. Sprinter is one of the most popular full size vans in Europe for good reason...here in the US it is plagued with emission created issues.

FWIW You can decarbonize those engines fairly easily.


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## ace_3s3s3s (Jan 19, 2016)

Hey, thanks to all of you for your insight. I'm test driving the Promaster and Transit today to find a winner!

Who has advice on how to upfit the vehicle? My thoughts are to put shelving on both sides. On the driver's side, I'd like to move it away from the wall and leave a one foot cavity for sheet goods and perhaps lumber above it.

How do you keep stuff on the shelves when going around turns and such? Bungees? Sliding doors?

Also, do you buy this stuff from the dealer or 3rd party (like Dejana), or build it yourself?

Thanks in advance! You guys are the best!


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Does anyone use a van with cargo doors on both sides? I was thinking that would be good idea, preventing having to step in frequently.


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## ace_3s3s3s (Jan 19, 2016)

I see two disadvantages:

1. Going in and out from the street side (traffic)
2. Loss of storage space

Do you agree?


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

On a small van two doors can give you the most storage space by making all your shelving accessed from standing on the ground instead of climbing in. No wasted space left for a body.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

rrk said:


> Does anyone use a van with cargo doors on both sides? I was thinking that would be good idea, preventing having to step in frequently.


You can order a Transit that way, not sure about a Promaster. If I remember correctly the Sprinter was one side or the other, but I could be wrong. My concern would be with structural strength. That is two big holes in the middle of the van. 



ace_3s3s3s said:


> Hey, thanks to all of you for your insight. I'm test driving the Promaster and Transit today to find a winner!
> 
> Who has advice on how to upfit the vehicle? My thoughts are to put shelving on both sides. On the driver's side, I'd like to move it away from the wall and leave a one foot cavity for sheet goods and perhaps lumber above it.
> 
> ...


Ha! Here is another Ford vs Dodge thread. 
http://festoolownersgroup.com/works...-based-shops/ford-transit-or-dodge-promaster/

There are quite a few build ups in this section. 
http://festoolownersgroup.com/workshops-and-mobile-vehicle-based-shops/

How the van is set up will depend on what tool storage system you use. Another Ford vs Dodge, errr I mean Systainer vs L-Boxx. If I was ordering a van to upfit it would have a backup camera, no windows in the back, and a wall behind the seats for security. Then I would probably build everything out of ABS vs wood. Lighter weight and stronger with more options. 

If you want the order options sheet the dealer should be able to email you the PDF. When you decide on which one to buy, work only with the fleet manager or the internet sales person. Email is the best way to get a quote. That way you are not stuck playing their games. Instead they are playing on your terms. If you decide to order a Ford, it might be best to purchase it from a local Kansas dealer, and drive home, plus you won't have to pay the additional costs to ship. Shipping takes a long time with high roofs.


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## colevalleytim (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm planning on a new van this summer, upgrade from a Chevy Astro
thinking about the Mercedes. Smaller is often a lot better in city traffic and parking. Have you considered it?

Metrishttp://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/commercial-vans/metris-cargo-van#specifications


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

The Metris undoubtedly offers the most comfort and best handling, being a slightly inflated minivan. Expensive and small though. The 118" wheelbase promaster has a longer load floor, tighter turning radius, is overall shorter, and has a lot more room inside.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

colevalleytim said:


> I'm planning on a new van this summer, upgrade from a Chevy Astro
> thinking about the Mercedes. Smaller is often a lot better in city traffic and parking. Have you considered it?
> 
> Metrishttp://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/commercial-vans/metris-cargo-van#specifications


That should be a very nice Mercedes van. Although the Bay Area is loaded with MB dealerships, having easy access to service is important. 

Another option would be the slightly smaller Ford Connect with a shorter wheelbase and overall length, that should park easier in SF. Might blow thru brake pads though LOL
http://www.ford.com/crossovers/transitconnectwagon/?gnav=header-suvs

My Suburban at 224" overall length was darn near impossible to park in SF. My Isuzu NPR was impossible to park in SF, except in big parking lots, or in commercial spots. Had many a discussion with parking enforcement, yet managed to never get a ticket. I know drivers in SF who count the ticket $$ every other day as part of doing business there. Of course if you want to park in garages height is important too. Why in the heck did they make them so low in SF?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

I like the partition for security but more importantly safety. In accidents all your crap becomes some pretty scary projectiles as well as crushing weight.


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## going_commando (Feb 19, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I like the partition for security but more importantly safety. In accidents all your crap becomes some pretty scary projectiles as well as crushing weight.


100% agree. No way am I rolling in a van without a safety partition again.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I like the partition for security but more importantly safety. In accidents all your crap becomes some pretty scary projectiles as well as crushing weight.


The ideal partition for me would have a door so I can walk back and windows so I can see out the back and right side door windows.


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## going_commando (Feb 19, 2013)

Golden view said:


> The ideal partition for me would have a door so I can walk back and windows so I can see out the back and right side door windows.


Plus the door is nice when its raining outside, so you hop in the back and close the doors, and then realize the child locks somehow got engaged. :whistling


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I like the partition for security but more importantly safety. In accidents all your crap becomes some pretty scary projectiles as well as crushing weight.


Ya I couldn't imagine not having a bulkhead, this what I have now:http://www.weatherguard.com/en/view/Products/Van-Storage-Equipment/Bulkheads/Full-Bulkhead/96101-3-01

As for windows I prefer no side or back windows, I've always painted the inside of the glass if it has rear windows.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

ace_3s3s3s said:


> Hey, thanks to all of you for your insight. I'm test driving the Promaster and Transit today to find a winner!
> 
> Who has advice on how to upfit the vehicle? My thoughts are to put shelving on both sides. On the driver's side, I'd like to move it away from the wall and leave a one foot cavity for sheet goods and perhaps lumber above it.
> 
> ...


Rarely can you buy up fitting that fits your needs 100% plus buying it is expensive. I always laid every thing out, measured it up, cut a bunch of templates, drew a bunch of lines and just built it myself exactly how i wanted it. Put the commonly used stuff in the best locations and less used stuff in the dead corners or behind other things. When you are laying it out write down everything that you plan on putting in there and everything that you want to do with the space. Measure everything up and get a sketch pad and put the deminsions on there and see what fits where. Plus think about everything that currently frustrates you with your current set up and try to take care of it. My truck I struggled with trash so i built in a small trash can for all of the wrappers and junk cups that everyone throws in there. 

I found to keep stuff in shelves all you really need is a small lip to catch any boxes from sliding out when taking turns. To get the box out simply lift the box over the lip. It helps if you have some rubber matting in there to keep stuff from sliding every time you hit the brakes. And bungee cords are great as well for other items

As others mentioned definitely have a wall between the seats and the cargo area. Every thing back there is a dangerous projectile in a crash and if you roll the van every thing flys around which could be deadly. I yell at my wife all the time for not using the retractable cargo net in out suv for the same reason


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## ace_3s3s3s (Jan 19, 2016)

Thanks, everyone, for your outstanding insight. I've learned a lot already and am almost <gasp> ready to take the plunge. Took a test drive today on the Promaster, *very *different from my SUV, but loved it!


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## colevalleytim (Mar 1, 2008)

My thoughts on a city van in genera: ease of maneuverability coupled with security and payload size. I need to get 4x8 sheets in the back. Some 10ft lumber would be great. And the security of a van is of prime importance, it's not overnight but at the lumber yard, orange menace or burrito shop. 

As for the height of a vehicle, not just parking garages but client garages as well, on a rainy day, it's nice to unload material directly to a dry garage.

Working in a city does have it's challenges, but I like living here.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

I forgot to also mention if you get the high van especially with a ladder rack, put a ladder on top when it's empty and drop a tape measure from the top and write how high it is on the dash in both inches and feet. You would be suprised how handy that is when hit the drive through to grab a cup of coffee or something..parking garages too!


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

going_commando said:


> Plus the door is nice when its raining outside, so you hop in the back and close the doors, and then realize the child locks somehow got engaged. :whistling


That happened just yesterday at my lumberyard, the guy next to me got locked in this van. The rear door blew closed, started banging on the window when I walked by.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

ace_3s3s3s said:


> Thanks, everyone, for your outstanding insight. I've learned a lot already and am almost <gasp> ready to take the plunge. Took a test drive today on the Promaster, *very *different from my SUV, but loved it!


Don't be afraid to drive the Transit, then go back and drive the Promaster again if needed. Almost best to drive them in a row. 

Did you like the color? 



rrk said:


> That happened just yesterday at my lumberyard, the guy next to me got locked in this van. The rear door blew closed, started banging on the window when I walked by.


As I understand being able to exit from the inside is a requirement.


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## ace_3s3s3s (Jan 19, 2016)

Thanks, never really thought of checking the roof height. I do remember once helping a guy move using a rented box truck. It fit under the building's Marquee (when full), but when empty, it rose up just enough to get stuck - had to let air out of the tires!

Peter, why the question about color? Joking? It's white, like 99.9% of all vans! Actually, I thought I'd get a silver one - doesn't show the dirt as bad!


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Peter_C said:


> As I understand being able to exit from the inside is a requirement.


It looked like the handle was broken off


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## Defenestrate (Aug 13, 2015)

colevalleytim said:


> I'm planning on a new van this summer, upgrade from a Chevy Astro
> thinking about the Mercedes. Smaller is often a lot better in city traffic and parking. Have you considered it?
> 
> Metris http://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/commercial-vans/metris-cargo-van#specifications


Was fond of my Astro, so I know where you're coming from, size/ maneuverability-wise. 

One thing that makes me enthusiastic about the Metris is that it's been sold in Europe for quite a while as the "Vito". And it sounds like they haven't changed it much to bring it over. Maybe a little googling about reliability and cost of ownership might help guide your decision. (I know the cost of ownership question scared me away from the sprinter.)


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