# How long would this take you?



## plumber1 (Dec 12, 2006)

wow!!! this is like nothing i've ever seen,and i dont mean that in a positive way.cleanlyness yes,thought out no.


----------



## dnconstruction (Apr 5, 2007)

*that hot water return line*

WOW that is a problem we have had in our house for ever, my furthest sink will get hot water after about 456156164 minutes, so how would I go about plumbing in a recirculation line. Do I put a tee in the hot where it goes to the sink then run that to the out going side of the water heater?? 

I am not a plumber but this would help out like crazy!


----------



## KKD Michaels (Mar 8, 2007)

wouldn't fly in the KY. Vents can't go to the horizontal until they're 6 inches above the flood level rim of the fixture being vented, reason being so that your vents don't fill up with crap when your sewer backs up and a stoppage would be visable in the fixture before it fills the walls and drains down another fixture vent. But Hey, if it works for your code rock on. But Here, I'd wrap a chain around the whole thing and snatch it out with a truck.:w00t:


----------



## All Clear Sewer (Nov 8, 2006)

emer constructi said:


> I don't see a clean out. Don't you need one?


No you dont need no stinking Clean-Out  The sewer guy will make his own :thumbup:


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*OK...we have 15 plumbers here from 15 states....forget code!*

*Ishmael..I'm licensed in MA too...dunno if you noticed, but the tub drain could have been wet vented through the Lav with a 2" drain - it looks like it must have been a tight squeeze getting the vent in for that tub along with the seperate lav drain.*


----------



## Midwest BuildIT (Mar 16, 2006)

If you guys want i have a couple of pics of the wall above that i can put up.


----------



## westcoastplumb (May 13, 2007)

Ishmael said:


> I don't think that'd pass an inspection here in Massachusetts. I can appreciate what he was trying to accomplish, though...keeping it all up in the bay so you can have a nice finished space without pipes hanging down. But I can't say I would've done it the same way. My main complaint: Couldn't he have cut the copper back a little so he wouldn't have burned the PVC when he soldered that coupling? But, then again, I'm anal about things like that.


I agree, it wouldn't pass here in los angeles, he has joints on the waste and overflow, a santee in the horizontal position, never would it pass here, nice burn mark on the pvc:clap:


----------



## westcoastplumb (May 13, 2007)

dnconstruction said:


> WOW that is a problem we have had in our house for ever, my furthest sink will get hot water after about 456156164 minutes, so how would I go about plumbing in a recirculation line. Do I put a tee in the hot where it goes to the sink then run that to the out going side of the water heater??
> 
> I am not a plumber but this would help out like crazy!


 
Grundfoes has a circ pump that installs right on the water heater, and a baffel tee flexes into the furthest fixture, between the angle stop to the faucet supply, really easy, no customer complaints


----------



## trptman (Mar 26, 2007)

woodmagman said:


> Is that one joist in the middle not a little compromised with all the drilling through it.:no: Oh yea, I forgot this is a plumbing thread.
> Dam that looks good, almost erotic:thumbsup: I'm not kidding, those are some sexy curves.......


The curves in the plumbing are nice but what gets my interest up are the ghost lines on the underside of the joists where the wood lath was nailed up. (and the back side of the wood lath with the plaster showing to the left of the cement board)
I'm always interested in what someone is doing to fix up an old house.
(and I mean old as in 75 yrs or older, not some 1974 split level)
Whats the rest of the place look like?


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *OK...we have 15 plumbers here from 15 states....forget code!*
> 
> *Ishmael..I'm licensed in MA too...dunno if you noticed, but the tub drain could have been wet vented through the Lav with a 2" drain - it looks like it must have been a tight squeeze getting the vent in for that tub along with the seperate lav drain.*


No wet vents allowed in any town that bases their code on Chicago Code, which is most of Cook, Lake, and Will County.


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*That kinda sucks....depending what state you're from we're almost different trades...knocks the wind right outta talkin' code.*


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *That kinda sucks....depending what state you're from we're almost different trades...knocks the wind right outta talkin' code.*


Chicago code is one the strictest in the country, mostly to protect the union guys, of which I am one.


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*I've worked with plumbers from other states...I'd been told there are three states where the code is a pain...California, New York (depending what area), and Ma...being from MA personally I can say that our code has loosened up alot in recent years.*
* We finally adopted cpvc and pex for water, amongst other things.*


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Grumpyplumber said:


> *I've worked with plumbers from other states...I'd been told there are three states where the code is a pain...California, New York (depending what area), and Ma...being from MA personally I can say that our code has loosened up alot in recent years.*
> * We finally adopted cpvc and pex for water, amongst other things.*


Nevada code has become much stricter since the fire at the MGM Grand years ago. Chicago does not allow any type of plastic water distribution pipe, it has to be copper or galvanized steel.


----------



## RussellF (Aug 22, 2006)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Chicago does not allow any type of plastic water distribution pipe, it has to be copper or galvanized steel.



In my experience, I have seen a lot of galvanized steel pipes that have almost closed from buildup of rust on the interior of the pipe!! This still is being installed around the country?? Maybe I am missing the boat here......or maybe not.


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

RussellF said:


> In my experience, I have seen a lot of galvanized steel pipes that have almost closed from buildup of rust on the interior of the pipe!! This still is being installed around the country?? Maybe I am missing the boat here......or maybe not.


There are certain high rise buildings in Chicago that do not allow the use of copper pipe, their concern being dialtric reaction from the dissimilar metals affecting 70 some floors worth of existing galvanized steel pipe. Thbeir engineers would rather deal with clearing blocked water lines as opposed to having 3 and 4 inch risers start rotting through.


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*At some point years ago "Galvy" was allowed on DWV in my state....bad move!*
*Every time I do a remodel or replacement it has to go....guarenteed clogs or slow drainage...it rusts inside and constricts the drain diameter.*
*As far as plastic...do a web search for Flowguardgold....they have a comparison chart for CPVC that makes copper look silly...no noise from thermal expansion, less noise from running water, no elctrolytic reaction to name a few.*
*Pex is something I've used and don't like...it's deceptively inflexable, the expansion tool is cumbersome to use, tends to kink when you try to bend it so you wind up using as many fittings anyway (negating it's main selling point, yet still looking like garden hose), gets very soft when hot, has one big advantage though....doesn't burst when frozen.*


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*One more note, cpvc and Pex are not legal on high rise or commercial buildings*


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

The problem with cpvc is the water taste bad even after it's been in use for some time, sorry but only good place for cpvc water pipe is for the water heater drain line.


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*I've done three complete home repipes this year...no problems.*
*I did one incrementally in portions so the family could have running water when I went home....not one problem.*
*Though I agree there is a slight odor for a few days...nothing of major longterm concern.*
*Maybe it's the glue or pipe you used.*
*Also - flush the system thoroughly after installation.*
*As far as using it for the T&P outlet...our code states you have to allow a minimum 24" distance from connection to any heater or boiler.*


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

UPC Oregon allows cpcv off the t&p, since it's rated for hot water anyways.


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

> Maybe it's the glue or pipe you used.


As far as I know, CPVC regardless of manufacturer has a slightly plastic-ey taste. The solvent used to bond the pipe has a residual taste, but that is usually gone in short order. CPVC in my experience is frowned upon....ALOT. I made a lot of money in a trailer park re-piping trailers that ALL had CPVC plumbed throughout. I will use it, but only if there is nothing else, meaning use it or no job. And....it's not my house, so....


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*It's all good 'till you work in an area with a high manganese content in the water table. (look up the properties of manganese)*
*One customer did a complete repipe like clockwork every ten to twelve years.*
*I've only been told this, but I've heard some counties in the U.S. require non-metallic water piping because of the water content...just a thing I'd heard though.*
*I WILL say this though, sure is cool being able to talk to guys in the field as if we were in line at the supply...without having to rush out to a job.*


----------



## All Clear Sewer (Nov 8, 2006)

trptman said:


> I'm always interested in what someone is doing to fix up an old house.
> (and I mean old as in 75 yrs or older, not some 1974 split level)
> Whats the rest of the place look like?


I did a complete repipe on my 100+ year old home a year a go. I used 1" PVC for the water main then changed it over to 1/2 cpvc inside the house. Never had a bad taste at all. :thumbup: 
I also used 4" PVC for my new sewer and waste line


----------



## PARA 1 (Jul 10, 2007)

Man O Man Someone Sure Has Aloto Time On Thier Hands. But What Am I Saying I'm Back On This Websight Again!!


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

That is one of the most unplanned waste piping jobs I have ever seen. From the loss of strength from all the drilling, to the tee-wye on the horizontal, the criss crossing vents, etc. Looks like a first year apprentice that thinks he knows what's going on.


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

MechanicalDVR said:


> That is one of the most unplanned waste piping jobs I have ever seen. From the loss of strength from all the drilling, to the tee-wye on the horizontal, the criss crossing vents, etc. Looks like a first year apprentice that thinks he knows what's going on.


Not really, it's a back to back done to Chicago code, with the bath with the tub having two lavs. I would have done it differently, but I rarely get to work on something that simple.


----------



## Work is good (Jul 9, 2007)

I`m worried about that joist drilling ? Doesn`t code say that max is 3 holes in joist allowed ? I think that this couldn`t pass inspection .Anyway looks great .


----------



## Work is good (Jul 9, 2007)

I`m worried about that joist drilling  ,doesn`t code allowed no more than 3 holes on the joist ? 
Anyway looks great ,good work !


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

KillerToiletSpi said:


> Not really, it's a back to back done to Chicago code, with the bath with the tub having two lavs. I would have done it differently, but I rarely get to work on something that simple.


Exactly my point, anyone with more experience would have done it differently. The burn on the pvc is a good indicator of the plumbers experience.


----------



## HallisseyDesign (Jul 6, 2007)

Ishmael said:


> I don't think that'd pass an inspection here in Massachusetts. I can appreciate what he was trying to accomplish, though...keeping it all up in the bay so you can have a nice finished space without pipes hanging down. But I can't say I would've done it the same way. My main complaint: Couldn't he have cut the copper back a little so he wouldn't have burned the PVC when he soldered that coupling? But, then again, I'm anal about things like that.



On the urn mark white-out will work well there!:clap: That looks amazing he did a good job and keep it very clean.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

Don't think it would pass inspection in NJ either.
1) Venting tie in issues
2) Tee wye not on the vertical
3) Too many holes in the joist


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

It looks good to me, and it's to code where I'm at


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

Ron The Plumber said:


> It looks good to me, and it's to code where I'm at


Your code allows a sanitary tee (tee wye) on the horizontal? And horizontal vent lines below the flood level of a fixture? And four 2 9/16" holes in the bottom third of a framing member that small?


----------



## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

MechanicalDVR said:


> Your code allows a sanitary tee (tee wye) on the horizontal? And horizontal vent lines below the flood level of a fixture? And four 2 9/16" holes in the bottom third of a framing member that small?


Yes here in Oregon it's allowed, San-tee on it's back, but only in Oregon, and hole in the joist are allowed as long as the hole are 4 x the diameter away form the hole/s to be drilled, meaning if you drill a 2 9/16 and you wait to drill another 2 9/16 hole you will want to be a min of 10-1/4" apart, center to center.

For vents below flood level as in a kitchen sink below window, venting on the horizontal to a vertical, you have to use a drainage fitting Long Turn when going from horizontal vent to vertical vent. When going from vertical the horizontal venting below flood level it can be a short turn.


----------



## ILPlumber (Aug 26, 2007)

Midwest BuildIT said:


> Im no plumber, I had my plumber do this. I just think that it looks really cool.


O.K. I'm new here so I'll try not to pizz anyone off right out of the box. But, what an abortion of pipe and fittings that is. I will assume this job was performed in IL for my code violation list. 

By the way I am a 15 year union plumber/fitter. Own my own company. Consider myself an artist. O.k. here we go.

shower drain is crown vented trap.
shower drain unnecessary vent does not come off main drain on a 45 degree or more angle. 
street 45 in shower drain vent is installed backwards. water flows into the hub first always. even rainwater on a dry vent.
pvc drains have to have a hanger every 4'
pvc penetrating joists will expand and contract in the holes popping and squeaking all the time.
has to have cleanouts installed. i see none.


----------



## MechanicalDVR (Jun 23, 2007)

ILPlumber said:


> O.K. I'm new here so I'll try not to pizz anyone off right out of the box. But, what an abortion of pipe and fittings that is. I will assume this job was performed in IL for my code violation list.
> 
> By the way I am a 15 year union plumber/fitter. Own my own company. Consider myself an artist. O.k. here we go.
> 
> ...


 
Amen brother, Welcome aboard
(UA Pipefitter 21 yrs in NJ)
Michael


----------



## ILPlumber (Aug 26, 2007)

I was happy to run across this site. It would be nice to have a place for contactors to meet and exchange ideas/ solve each others dilemas. 

DIY questions get very tiring. 

The sad part about this job is , someone actually tried to make it meet code but didn't know what the hell they were doing. It's like they never thought past the fitting they were gluing on at that moment.

I'll try to dig out some pics of my artwork and my newest truck.
Nice to make your aquantance my brother.

ILPlumber
UA Local 157


----------



## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Ilplumber...you know it.*
*I hate when doing remodels for homeowners, trying to explain that you don't just simply glue a bunch of pipe & fittings together.*
*You have to consider all 3 dimensions, drain sizes, vents, legal fittings and structural limitations....then of course, things never go the way you plan, or the customer decides they want to swap the toilet and shower locations, having to say things like: "No, repiping the bathroom isn't something I can get done in 2 hours".*


----------



## Big P (Sep 27, 2007)

wouldn't fly in wisconsin, no cleanout on 3" ,& you got to roll the tee's serving as the vent for tub and shower above centerline of drain. also wet venting the t&s with the lavs would make it much cleaner.


----------

