# Help!! Question on Back Charges



## DT Tilemaster (May 8, 2007)

I have a question about a back charge I was just informed about and thought I throw it out there to you guys for advice/answers.

Here's the back story: I am a tile sub in CA and I have been working with one GC for two custom home projects, both with separate contracts of course. The first project was completed about 10 months ago and I have been paid in full including retention. The second project has been complete for about 7 months and I've been trying to collect retention. Just today, the GC informs me that he is back charging me for some drywall work that had to be done on the first project (which I have no knowledge of nor was I ever given a Back Charge form to sign) and he will be taking it out of the retention amount that he owes me for the second project.

My questions is: Can he do this legally?? Can you deduct money for one project from the retention of another project? I've already waived my rights to lien on the first project as I was paid in full and this back charge came out of no where nor has it been explained to me why they had to do drywall repair for something that is my fault. Any help would be greatly appreciated....


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## Thag (Nov 27, 2007)

DT Tilemaster said:


> Any help would be greatly appreciated....


Stay away from GC's they're no good.


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

You might want to confer with an attorney familiar with CA business law, rather than some hammer swingers on the internet....


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## DT Tilemaster (May 8, 2007)

You can never underestimate the advice of hammer swingers who have been in the biz and have gained on-the-job experience. Besides, lawyers would cost more than the actual disputed amount of the back charge so I guess I was just hoping for some friendly advice.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Thag said:


> Stay away from GC's they're no good.


 :furious:

I wouldnt think he could, the building slump is probably getting to him so hes trying to screw you. I would argue with him, he will give in.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

Separate projects. I've been there. If he keeps the money out of your retainage, take him to small claims court.
It happened to me 20 years ago. I took a huge multi-billion dollar company to court for $2000. It took the judge all of 30 seconds to find in my favour. Of course, I never got work from them again.


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

Thag said:


> Stay away from GC's they're no good.


Ok.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

A hammer swinging idiot knows that one contract has no bearing on another unless the connection is directly addressed in the contracts themselves.


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## DT Tilemaster (May 8, 2007)

I've been doing some prep work for the small claims court which these forums are a big help with. As for getting work from him again....no thanks. There's no money in residential anyway especially since by the time homeowners get to the tile portion of the project they have run out of money.


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

I hate when that happens. I love to get on the project early while they still have money.

Dave


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## Punch List D (Feb 6, 2008)

Not bad , 2 jobs and it took him 10 months to screw over you. Odds must be in your favor.Sweet !! Usually doesn't take them that long.


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## al10fred1081 (Feb 9, 2008)

I want the whole dam project....

I've been through this and legally ( at least here) he doesn't have any right to do that. the contracts are seperate contracts and one has no bearing on the other unless specifically stated in the contract.

He should have checked his drywall before he paid the retention.... kinda why we have a retention right? He signed off on the work and paid in full, now he's trying to let  roll downhill. even though he probably paid $50 to have the sheetrock fixed. I'd call him on it and force his hand.

my two cents,
Alex


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## DT Tilemaster (May 8, 2007)

I sent out an intent to lien notice to the GC and owner on the 2nd project and I'm going to call the GC out tomorrow...over e-mail of course....gotta keep that trail of communication alive!! Plus he's a poster boy for anger management classes and is bound to call me an hole which will only help my cause in SC court.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*You might bluff him into giving you something in writing stating his reason and which job it's for BEFORE you go toe to toe with him.*
*He could attempt to turn it around and say it's for something on the other job that you haven't gotten payment on.*
*After ten months, wtf would he have to go back and redo that had to wait that long?*
*What exactly was the repair for?*
*Isn't he supposed to allow you the chance to repair your own work before deciding to do it himself and then back charge you?*


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## Bozzy (Feb 22, 2008)

E-mail or certified letter is definately the way to go. The more documentation you have the better. Keep your cool in the courtroom, (yes your honor, no your honor), if it goes that far. Sounds like your on the right track, best of luck.


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## d-rez (May 16, 2007)

To answer your original question: hell no, that is not legal. Make and maintain a papertrail, correspond through writting, keeping a copy of everything! Collect what you can from the second job, and do not sign a final release if you are shorted. Send a certified/registered, short, non-emotional letter to the GC stating he has 'x' days to pay and then legal action will be taken. Contact his licensing board, they may be of help. Sorry to hear of your situation. -Chris


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

I agree that there is more that can be done now, in terms of registered mail, letters, etc...

The point of talking to a local lawyer....however, is the fact, that we don't know ALL the details. 
Posters don't always include every detail of their contract(s) wording, or what have you.
We are not privy to all the actions, conversations, and contract details.

I realize that contracts are separate. We just settled, with the help of our own lawyer, between a GC, that we did work for about 1 year ago. 

Reality, this guy totaly blew his estimated budget for the work we did on a hospital wing remodel. He got our bill, after several heated discussions with him being an A**, he sent us a letter stating that we should have charged him by the SF for some other extensive remodeling work we had done on a dentist's office, and also a doctor's office over 1 year previous (completely unrelated to the hospital). HA, HA, HA....what a jerk.

Point: If all else fails, then get a lawyer involved. You can spend alot of time and effort chasing your money; phone calls, letters, correspondences, begging....

But, _sometimes _it only costs $50.00, to get a legal letter sent, to collect your money - pronto.

Good Luck.


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

DT Tilemaster said:


> I sent out an intent to lien notice to the GC and owner on the 2nd project and I'm going to call the GC out tomorrow...over e-mail of course....gotta keep that trail of communication alive!! Plus he's a poster boy for anger management classes and is bound to call me an hole which will only help my cause in SC court.


My point exactly, do you want to go thru all this crap?

Alot of guys out there think that they can jerk subs around. That they will do whatever they are told to do, that they will accept whatever they are told to accept....and that they will only complain, and whine about getting their money.
When _some_ guys see that you are serious (i.e. - legal letter), they will pay...


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## AtlanticWBConst (Mar 29, 2006)

I am not saying that this is a collections situation, I am making a point about the value of one's time:

There are times when we will hire a collection company to pursue matters with some delinquents. Why?

*It's not just about collecting the money, it's also about the loss of profitable time.*

We had one goof, who would ask to meet up with my business partner every Monday, to give him some money he owed us. Sometimes he'd show up with $100-$300, sometimes he wouldn't show at all. This was a joke, waste of entire days.

Meanwhile, we are losing money, because my business partner needs to be meeting with clients, running jobs, gettting more jobs = making money.

FWIW: One time, we called our collection company on a deadbeat business owner (owned a limo company), the next day he called and angrily said, _"come and get your $%^& cash...."_

A person can put all kinds of time and energy into trying to collect on a debt. Time is money.
Try taking your desired hourly rate. Take all the time you are putting into trying to collect on that debt, multiply that, and see what you are actually losing. 
Then consider the possibility of other methods that may expedite payment of that debt, without you wasting so much of your valuable time and your nerves.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

*Knew a fella once who had a similar problem.*
*Was subbing for a company that was constantly trying to slide extra's by him as if they were part of the job, also constantly pushing him to get his prices lower...to the point he'd have had to use illegal or inferior stock.*
*In the end, he called it quits, they stiffed his final payment on his last job.*
*He filed a mechanics lien, got every dime PLUS admin, legal and penalties.*
*The fee's added up to more than the original debt.*
*The very same company was cited in the infamous "Big Dig" project when faulty/inadequate supports gave and a ceiling panel collapsed in a tunnel - killed a woman.*
*What a coincidence.*


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