# The "Zero tail" phenomenon......



## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

How do you guys feel about the "zero tail swing" excavators? Like em, hate em, don't care?? I know from a personal standpoint, when I came to St.Louis to work, thats all you see. Maybe not with the large highway heavy outfits, but with the smaller contractors doing smaller projects in more confined areas, they are the rage. The company I work for owns mostly zero tail excavators. 3- PC228's and a JD. The only other excavators they own is a PC400 and an old Hyundai 320. When I first saw them I figured their lifting capabilites would be greatly reduced so I didn't care much for them. Surprisingly though, they are pretty close to their protruding tail ended cousins when it comes to lifting. I think the reason for this is mainly the fact that on the zero tail machines, you can boom past the cylinders verticle and tuck it up close to your tracks.....I LOVE EM!!! Not to mention, you don't have to worry about scooting out away from the roadway so that your counter-weight clears traffic! I've noticed that since being on them quite a bit, I don't like going back to the older "counter-weight" versions.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Woot, I am replying before Joe see's this one.

I have never operated one before. I would like to and would consider buying one. I like the idea of them. I did hear that parts for them cost more though. I did sit in the seat of a Cat 321LCR and "play" with it a bit at the dealership. I am 6' tall it seemed a bit cramped for me.


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

We have 3 of them and I love them for getting in the tight situations we find ourselves in on these Postage Stamp lots we work on. I also find the lifting capabilities good for what we do.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

jmic should know the shouldn't he. They must be great. If he says so.

I think they stink! I don't know what lame brain came up with this stupid idea! I never saw anything as unesthetically pleasing as the look of these tailless wonders! You need to be a hunched over troll to fit in the ridiculously laid out cabs. If there has ever been a machine that was as unfunctional as these ridiculous things I haven't seen it. Rediculous, stupid, useless, dumb and expensive pieces of junk!!!

My opinion only I'm sure!!


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## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

denick said:


> jmic should know the shouldn't he. They must be great. If he says so.
> 
> I think they stink! I don't know what lame brain came up with this stupid idea! I never saw anything as unesthetically pleasing as the look of these tailless wonders! You need to be a hunched over troll to fit in the ridiculously laid out cabs. If there has ever been a machine that was as unfunctional as these ridiculous things I haven't seen it. Rediculous, stupid, useless, dumb and expensive pieces of junk!!!
> 
> My opinion only I'm sure!!


You calling me a "Troll" Old Man?:boxing:


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i'm w/you nick, they don't "look" the part?


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## Cat385 (Nov 17, 2006)

Cabs are cramped for the tall guys, They do ok with the lifting. 
My biggest issue is the 225/235 (depends on brand) are just a little to heavy for the tag trailer.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I love my zero!:thumbsup: 

I will admit, it could have a little more leg room, I am 6'-1" tall. It's really not all that bad.

Definitely COULD NOT do a job like we did recently with out it! See for yourself.


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## fhdesign (Jan 17, 2007)

I don't have any real experience running them, and also don't like the way they look, but I do think in the future mostly eveything will be zts.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Awesome pics Tom. What kind of job were you doing there ???


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

rino1494 said:


> What kind of job were you doing there ???


Thanks Rino.

This one is a "slab on grade" addition. Had to do some demo and haul about a dozen tandem loads of dirt out.

The building to one side had a basement foundation 9' below the grade you see there. We had to get down to that level and come back out. (just filled it with concrete), No way to make it safe for the mason in such tight quarters.

Nice change order as it was not on the plans. We poured the slab for this one this past Wednesday. I'll post some more photos up in the photo section when I get a chance.


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

It looks more like you robbed a bank with that thing and were trying to make a get away down an alley!!


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

denick said:


> It looks more like you robbed a bank with that thing !!


Yep, I made a clean getaway....and buried the loot, in a secure and undisclosed location!! :cowboy: :laughing:


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Nice Tom, did uyo pupm the concrtee ovefr the houfse or did you carry i t with the sikd steedfr ??


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## Jack's Building (Jan 31, 2007)

I was talking to a bobcat rep and he said that the zero tail swing was mostly caused from making the machine wider. Thus there is little real change in the swing distance, just the security of knowing that you will not hit anything. Of course they made some other changes as well, but he said that the added track wigth was the main one. 

Jack


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

Denick...you are right..They are BUTT ugly and true, we taller types have to "duck and roll" just to get in the damn things. I know I've bashed my head getting into the cab on more than one occasion. Once you are in and sitting down though, they have just as much leg room as your standard excavator. I'm sure there were nay-sayers when lasers were first used in construction, or when GPS was introduced. I know when CAT first came out with the "hi-track" dozers, many dozer operators hated them........why??? Cause their different, that's all. Said they were ugly, sitting in the seat at a slight angle was awkward...But now, it's the standard in the industry! Like em or hate em....they're here to stay!


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

TMatt,

I may not yet be a geriatric, old geezer. But being one of the 50+ year olds, of the older generation who borders on being an older gentleman and even might be an elder statesman! 
*"They stink because I say they do!!!!*


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## Cat385 (Nov 17, 2006)

I think the best way to sum up this debate is every machine has its place.


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## funk5stacks (Mar 19, 2007)

Cat385 said:


> I think the best way to sum up this debate is every machine has its place.


agreed, zero swing works really well in tight spots, which on todays job sites seem to be the norm, they also perform well on heavy highway jobs working against barrier walls and when faced against oncoming traffic, i still prefer the standard counterweight over the final drives as far as ride quality, machine smoothness, and heavy lifting are concerned. :thumbsup:


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

Wow, I'm never going to live that little statement down...am I? :whistling


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

No!


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

nick, when i see those ztr's....i'm thinking "no nads"...when it does swing the counterweight towards you, i'm expecting a flourescent rainbow decal stuck to the counterweight


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

hmmmm SO that's why that rainbow sticker is on there!!!!!!!!!!! Thought the guy running my 228 before me was a Gordon fan..........


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

TMatt142 said:


> hmmmm SO that's why that rainbow sticker is on there!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually, that's the upgraded counterweight package.
I've always preferred a rig with a decent tail on it to those with more weight up front. I'm not inclined to change my preference any time soon.


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## C buck (Mar 4, 2007)

Cat385 said:


> I think the best way to sum up this debate is every machine has its place.


I agree.


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## Cat385 (Nov 17, 2006)

C Buck where at in wisc? I'm in eau claire


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## C buck (Mar 4, 2007)

Cat385 said:


> C Buck where at in wisc? I'm in eau claire


Cascade, it's over by Sheboygan


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## dreamwvr (Mar 4, 2007)

after 20 years in a standard hoe I have 321C L CR coming next week. I'm also trying out a Rotobec bucket, and i,m anxious to tear some stuff up with it. no more wondering if your turning into the pile, or the pipe,bachoe, truck, inspector(damn i'm going to miss that maybe I should reconsider:w00t: ) or owner that walks up not knowing any better. I once knocked Dad( who did know better but walked there anyway without me knowing) off a 12' embankment and into 3' of water. Man was he pissed  :furious:  !!he looked like a drowned rat but didn't get hurt.:whistling


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

makes you wonder why they put all those "stay out of swing radius" stickers all over the counter weight!!!


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

I may have to rethink what I have said. Last week I had to make my way down the access to our hillside job and the upper-side banks were like jello. Water was flowing down the access-way and there was 1' of mud on top of 18" to 2' of frost.

It was a definite asset to not have to think about the tail end of the machine as I was trying to deal with all of this.

Remember I said "may have to"


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## TMatt142 (Apr 28, 2006)

Ahhh Haaaa!!!!!!


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