# Salamander Construction Heater - 3 Phase into 1 Phase



## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

I have the opportunity to purchase a few Salamander construction heaters for dirt cheap,(Under 100 each) however they are 3 phase . 

Retail for these units are around 1200 plus.

Ive been told we can have them rewired for a single phase .

Before I bother my electrician tomorrow, do you think its worth the hassle to even do something like this?


Also, another option is a motor replacement, 

http://www.morelectricheating.com/products/REPLACEMENT PARTS/TPI REPLACEMENTS/TPI MOTORS.aspx


If not, back to my kerosene heaters, which I'm trying to avoid .


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Propane salamanders? How big is the motor, and what other brains do they have?


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## Mike-B (Feb 11, 2015)

Your link doesn't work.
Not enough info here to give a real answer.

I'm guessing these are pure electric units that have 3 elements that could be rewired to work with single phase. Most likey, it means running only 2 of the elements in each unit.

There is a good possibility it has a single phase motor that will accept a range of voltage inputs from 200V to 250V. 

A knowledgeable sparky should be able to take a look at them at let you know for sure if it's possible.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Probably cheaper to buy new ones.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

I always thought "Salamanders" were the kerosine heaters with a big round pot on the bottom (24-30"?) , a vertical stove pipe with a top hat cap on the top. I thought they were outlawed forever ago.

It's really hard to comment on your question without knowing what kind of heater your looking at. If it's a forced air propane heater, your best bet would be a single to 3ph inverter. Go to the tools and equipment section for advice on brands there. Brian uses them on all his machines. If it's all electric, I wouldn't even consider due to the high amps requirement and conversion reinvolved.


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

All electric unit , 3 phase 480 volts .


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

I bet changing those would be a lot of work


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

plazaman said:


> All electric unit , 3 phase 480 volts .


If the heating elements are 3ph, you're pretty much hosed trying to make 'em work on 1ph unless you buy phase converters.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

480sparky said:


> .... unless you buy phase converters.


... which they don't give away.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

You could rewire the three heating elements in a series-parallel circuit to use 1 phase 240 Volt power

with about 1/2 the 480 Volt A.C. 3 phase output.:sad:

If you got a good price, just sell down river and get what YOU need.:thumbsup:

The blower motor might not even be 3 phase, but probably is because they are cheaper and more reliable then 1 phase motors, no starter parts.

Any type of liquid/gas Hydrocarbon fueled heaters would be much cheaper per BTU output, with Natural Gas cheapest by far at about a third of propane's cost in the mid West.

480 sparky: just how are resistive heaters phase dependant.....?
the delta wiring would have to change for 1 phase, but the elements could work on either power supply. it might be a PITA to rewire, and re motor the blower motor, but doable.


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

Fouthgeneration said:


> You could rewire the three heating elements in a series-parallel circuit to use 1 phase 240 Volt power
> 
> with about 1/2 the 480 Volt A.C. 3 phase output.:sad:
> 
> ...



Update : Blower motor is 1 phase . Yes, I'm aware that the output will be cut in half , but that still good enough for the site . 

Im aware that alternative fuel might be cheaper , but the hassle of transporting fuel. Also, I'm not paying for the electric !


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Fouthgeneration said:


> ........480 sparky: just how are resistive heaters phase dependant.....?........


There will be three elements, one wired A-B, one wired B-C and the third wired A-C.


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## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

480sparky said:


> There will be three elements, one wired A-B, one wired B-C and the third wired A-C.


 So all toasters could just be re-wired A-B. 

We run a lot of 240v single ph machines in our shop on 2 legs of 3ph. The fact that the motor, & likely the controls, are single 120v is a big help.
You could wire toasters single ph, & use a 240/480dry transformer to boost voltage to 480.

I still don't think it would be worth the hassle though.

What is the wattage of the heater? Temporary electric on job sites is usually minimal, & not set up for big electric heaters.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

Being 480v Id say its not worth messing with, you wouldnt get much heat out unless you bought a very expensive transformer.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

Assuming each coil is wired hot to hot and 480v, you'll get 1/4 the heat (half the amperage and half the voltage) if you figure out how to wire to 240v. But if they are wired hot to neutral 277v, then you could get something useful.

V=IR. When voltage is halved, current is halved since resistance is constant.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

No Natural Gas piping on site? FYI the Gas company transports the gas.......:jester:

I bought my own meter, the N.gas/L.P. hoses are outrageous, but if elevated or buried in pipes at crossings last years.

Building shelters is a PITA, but it allows you to increase your gross without a tiny increase in fixed costs, and can save big on lower Payroll(unemployment rates). If you are one of the few in your trade to go Year-around, you'll have the pick of the litter as the employee cream will seek out employment at the full time winter contractors. 

Electric heat is okay if the GC or owner pays the light bill.... It is the least effort.

Open flame salamanders are forbidden on all the larger jobs I've bid recently.:sad:

If the units are like new you might be able to swap them for some 1 phase units, or just sell them out right to a large job w/3 phase temp power.


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Open flame salamanders are forbidden on all the larger jobs I've bid recently.:sad:


Seriously??  What do folks use then?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously??  What do folks use then?


My guess is.......... electric heat?


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Speedy Petey said:


> Seriously??  What do folks use then?


They huddle


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Enclosed flame heaters and furnaces......

Besides the downside of the carbon dioxide, the "wet" heat of unvented salamander heaters causes mass condensation on the enclosure plastic and in general masonry is dirtier from stray mortar sticking to the damp units instead of falling to the floor. Dry wall finishing is slowed and painting delayed. Some finished surfaces are damaged by the very high humidity levels and the stack gases.

Many insurance companies won't cover open flame temp heat or non- fire resistant shelter materials. 

The added upsides is the safe heaters are usually quieter and have better air movement provisions, such as sock plenums for heat spread, and an exhaust stack/pipe. 

On smaller jobs an used home furnace is several times as reliable most torpedo style heaters and again much quieter and dryer. And dust filters are easily fitted for improve work area air quality.


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