# Commercial client burn..should I return?



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Listen to your lawyer


----------



## chew (Apr 5, 2012)

It depends on a lot of things.
1) Do you want their business with the way they pay their bills?
2) Can you wait to get paid?
3) Do believe they will pay you?
and the list goes on.

But I would proceed until I have been paid for work already preformed.

We do mostly commercial work & we have some customers that take 120 days to get paid, but we know we are going to get paid & just add the cost of waiting to our price. Because you can charge interest, but nobody pays it.

We have (1) GC that does at least $750,000.00 a year ( we have been doing business with them for over 25 years) with us & they take 120 - 150 days to pay. We get all their work at our price, but we have to wait to get paid. 

I was just reading list of top 100 hundred contractors in our area & we have done work with all, but 2 of them. 90% of them take over 60 days to pay. There are a few that pay quickly & they get the best prices & service.

We used to do work for the largest road contractor in the state, but their pay is so bad we won't do business with them even if they pay us up front.

If you expect to get paid quickly then commercial work is not for you.


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

I agree patience is a virtue in commercial. I don't mind waiting. Just let me know upfront. 

45, 60, 90 days...no problem. I'll book other work to fill in the gaps. 

I am fortunate to have enough to not need them as a client. I am about 80% sure I'll never do work for them again. But who knows, time heals all wounds. I just thought it was weird that my supplier tolerates it, & maybe I was looking at the whole thing wrong.


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

tedanderson said:


> You're right. It says that all of the contractors in your local area got burned.
> :whistling


We have a local developer who has done that. They are WELL lawyered and told all the local contracting companies to go pound sand after completing their shopping center projects. They were hired because the developers knew they wouldn't be able to fund a legal challenge against them. Put a lot of the smaller companies into bankruptcy.

Nobody local works for them now. They've pretty much abused the whole state. Most companies working for them anymore are from out of state.

I'd also recommend you follow your lawyer's advice. That is, after all, what you're paying for, correct?


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

svronthmve said:


> I'd also recommend you follow your lawyer's advice. That is, after all, what you're paying for, correct?


Svron.... I agree with your point... but I'd only comment ...... that you need to speak and understand your attorney in regard to your legal options, costs, and legal practicalities.....

Your attorney, may or may not make practical good BUSINESS decisions.... some do.... some don't.

Best


----------



## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

svronthmve said:


> We have a local developer who has done that. They are WELL lawyered and told all the local contracting companies to go pound sand after completing their shopping center projects. They were hired because the developers knew they wouldn't be able to fund a legal challenge against them. Put a lot of the smaller companies into bankruptcy. Nobody local works for them now. They've pretty much abused the whole state. Most companies working for them anymore are from out of state. I'd also recommend you follow your lawyer's advice. That is, after all, what you're paying for, correct?


 I would of been in jail . I would of went back and took everything that I put into project out .


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

skillman said:


> I would of been in jail . I would of went back and took everything that I put into project out .


That's why my contract states I retain ownership of all materials (installed & waiting to be installed) until final payment has been received and clears. 

Thankfully I heard of the scuttle butt around town, and learned from others mistakes.


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Svron.... I agree with your point... but I'd only comment ...... that you need to speak and understand your attorney in regard to your legal options, costs, and legal practicalities.....
> 
> Your attorney, may or may not make practical good BUSINESS decisions.... some do.... some don't.
> 
> Best


Yes, I should have qualified my statement. I guess I assumed that he had already vetted out his attorney and found him to be giving sound and credible advice.


----------



## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

The way I see it, you already demonstrated that you would show up and do the work... it was them who demonstrated they have a deficit in the trust department. 

I would accept the work with a draw schedule that included payments of the remaining $2K, but you get your first deposit BEFORE you work, and before each phase of the project. This way, if things go south for them again, you will still have made up lost money ($2K) and not be in the hole for more...

If they didn't agree to that, which is completely reasonable, why bother digging the hole deeper?


----------



## eastend (Jan 24, 2006)

why is "emotion " a bad thing? why must something be just dollars and cents- cold and hard
Isn't "listening to your gut" at least a partial emotional response?

Also- svronthmve- just because you put a clause in your contract, doesn't make it so- especially if the clause is against the law or against public policy- I'd check with your attorney about that.


----------



## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

0 chance id return....your just going to get screwed for $60,000 next time

obviously they have issues....let someone else get screwed....recommend them to your enemy

I fired 2 prime contractors this year....constant late payments and problems. ive always gotten paid, because I know how to be a thorn in their side..when they have money problems I know how to get paid first....once you burn the bridge I wouldn't jump back over it.....


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

eastend said:


> why is "emotion " a bad thing? why must something be just dollars and cents- cold and hard
> Isn't "listening to your gut" at least a partial emotional response?
> 
> Also- svronthmve- just because you put a clause in your contract, doesn't make it so- especially if the clause is against the law or against public policy- I'd check with your attorney about that.


I don't put idle things in my contracts. 

I'm not sure what public policy has to do with anything....


----------



## eastend (Jan 24, 2006)

no offense meant.

my point was that just by putting a clause in a contract, doesn't mean that clause is valid if it "breaks a law or regulation".

You cannot enforce a contract that agrees to illegal activity.

And as far as I've heard, once something is installed on premises, title transfers and it becomes the property of the homeowner, so saying it's still yours may not hold up in court.

Just my .02.


----------



## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

eastend said:


> no offense meant.
> 
> my point was that just by putting a clause in a contract, doesn't mean that clause is valid if it "breaks a law or regulation".
> 
> ...


The man's two cents in many states will prevail. (Just my 450/hour)


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Meh...I'm over it. Just second guessed myself for a hot minute. Weird how you do that when things slow down.

Somehow, referalls are kickin in on the residential side... and i don't even try for that market.


----------



## JBrzoz00 (Jan 11, 2011)

Driftweed said:


> Emotionally: I am 100% happy to never work for them again.
> 
> Business: They own 100+ complexes nationwide. I have seen them have contractors drive from Indianapolis & dayton ohio to this particular complex. (southwest tip of indiana) That alone says something.
> 
> Which to listen to?


 They're running out of people to screw. If you get back on board all that you'll be thinking about is "are they going to pay?"

If you do good work who cares how many properties they have. 

I would run.


----------



## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

I would get at least 1/2 up front and make sure there is a really solid contract.


----------



## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Reg said:


> I would get at least 1/2 up front and make sure there is a really solid contract.


I'd recommend you re-read through the experiences posted in the thread. You're suggestions mean nothing with people like this....


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

On a positive note: the lead maintenance guy quit & went to a larger complex. He invited me to come along.


----------



## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

There is a joke about this guy who went into the woods and attempted to hunt the same bear 3 times. Unfortunately he got rammed in the rear by the bear each time he went. Eventually the bear asked, "You don't come out here for the hunting, do you?" (google it if you don't know it)

This thread made me think of that joke. If you get burned, whether or not you go back and do business with them again is a no-brainer.


----------



## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

I tell ya, this forum has instilled good business practices in me whether i liked it or not. Sometimes things just don't add up. I was like "wtf" when approached about returning. Especially since a respected supplier kept going back.

IF I would ever have returned, it would have been because a good friend (the maint foreman) would have brokered something to work. Now that he has left that company, no way would I go back.


----------



## KermieB (Jul 27, 2012)

How big is this "Supplier" that you keep talking about? If it's somebody with corporate resources, then they are in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM even remotely similar to you. If it's a national company, they have deep pockets, millions in inventory, and lawyers on staff. They have most likely (and obviously, I don't know the facts) sued these people with enough gusto to get their money. 

The deadbeat customer is playing you because he thinks you need the business, and even if you DO need the business, you don't need business that doesn't pay and costs you money out of your pocket.

I literally, could go to work seven days a week, 52 weeks a year and never run out of work..... if I worked for free.


----------



## bartstop (Dec 9, 2013)

Driftweed said:


> backstory:
> 
> Had a complex burn me for $6k. Liened & all that legal headache. While doing work, I referred my local paint & floor shop and helped get them in the door.
> 
> ...


WTF are you thinking? They stiffed you for $6000! Renegotiation? You've got to be kidding me. :no:


----------

