# connections to the back of a switch



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

I was trying to trouble shoot a light circuit recently (4 high intensity gym lights). Voltage into the switch and voltage out of the switch-I concluded it wasn't the switches fault and called an electrician in. The electrician quickly found the switch was at fault; when he jiggled the swtich, the wires pressed into the back of the switch arced and the lights came on. Is this type of mount called something like compression fittings? The electrician I asked said they never use this type of connection, they'll use the screws to attach the wire. 

Is it more common to use the screws or to press the wire into the back of the switch? I'm not sure of the current draw, the lights could be in the 300w (not sure though) range each for a total of 1200 watts which is 10A-is there a limitation on current draw for use of the press in connection?

thanks for sharing your knowledge.


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## sundogusa (Dec 4, 2005)

*Back stabbing*

Backstabbing is a guaranteed way to have a return call, although some swear by it.
Backstabbing wiring methods are supposed to be the same as screw terminal connections, however I have found over the years vibration effects backstabbing more than screw terminal connections. 
On receptacles, the use of the outlet by inserting and removing plugs, has a tendency to loosen the backstabbed wire, especially if the receptacle is not secure in the wall.
10 Amps on a switch is not excessive. I would replace the switch with a commercial duty switch, and wrap the wires around the screws unless it is a spec grade switch. The insert the wire into the back slot and tighten the screw.


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

Since moving into my new house (8 years old) in May of 2005 I have replaced many of the light swiches with dimmers. All of them were back stabbed and about 30% were cracked and arching. It appears that all of my wiring is 12 guage and I think with the combination of stiffer wire and the back stabbing many of the switches cracked while being pushed into the boxes during install. Just about every new house I have had the opprotunity to see being built in the last several years has been wired with the back stab method. I have never heard an electrician admit that they back stab so who are these mystery back stabbers out there?

Rob


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

It's a simple rule.....I think most of us know it.....It goes kind of like this.

If your going to backstabb....better just count on getting stabbed back.:w00t:

Bob


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Glasshousebltr said:


> If your going to backstabb....better just count on getting stabbed back.:w00t:
> 
> Bob


that's a riot Bob! 

Do you suppose if the installers used 14gauge it would have been less prone to failure? 

I ripped out a commercial site awhile ago and pulled alot of wiing out-most was screws in place but a few were backstabbed. The location was used for hospital use and had many gfi's-one of which had caught fire many years ago. Are gfi's more typically connected via backstabbing?


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## robertc65 (Apr 16, 2005)

I think in the case of my house if they had used 14 vs 12 wire that less of the switches would have cracked. I'm happy to have all 12 guage wire but it would have been nice if the electricians who wired my house could have been more careful after back stabbing the switches and then trying to shove them into the boxes. 

Again who are these mystery electricians who back stab? This seems like such an obvious no no that I can't believe that it's allowed in the NEC.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

I believe they reduced the size of the back-stab holes several years ago so it will only work with #14 wire.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

72chevy4x4 said:


> Are gfi's more typically connected via backstabbing?


I've never seen a GFCI receptacle with backstabbing provisions. Most all of them, however, are arranged to be backwired. Backwiring is fine, as you insert the conductor in a hole, and bind the screw down. This presses the conductor between two plates inside the device. It does not rely on a little 'tooth' like backstabbing does. Backwiring is a little trickier with solid conductors, but it is the preferred method for termination of stranded conductors.


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## Brendakeen (Oct 30, 2006)

*This is one thing I was taught right.*

NEVER backstab!!!!!!!!!


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

You guys crack me up. Backstabbing is a UL listed method of wiring devices, I've stabbed 100,000+ devices and never experienced a problem.

In my 30+ years of experience in the electrical trade, I've found it's the side wired deivices that are the primary source of service calls. I wire houses at $2.75 a foot and at that price point, we don't side wire. If I catch any of my guys sidewiring or doing anything else unprofessional, they're fired.

Not only do I use the Profit Holes in the back of devices, I don't waste my precious time making pigtails.

The Construction Business: It's a money thing.

Whoop! Whoop!


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

On the same subject, the company I'm with recently switched over to these things called "wago's" (ever heard of 'em), same principle. I just wonder how long till they fail.

I suppose a lot of it has to do with how you tuck your wires into the box.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I use Wago's when old conductors are too short to properly install a wire nut. Other than that, I still use B-Caps. I suspect that the next generation of electricians will all use Wago's. I'm an "old-timer" so to speak. Consider me like one of the guys who were still twisting and soldering in the 60's, when wire nuts had been more common for 10-15 years. There's always a technology overlap, and I believe that is a good thing. 

Plan 9.... how do you get away with not pigtailing when you have 3 romexes in a box?????????


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

I almost never have 3 romex's in a box intended for a receptacle, and if I do, I stab what I can and wrap the rest. I use 18" boxes for receptacles and 22" boxes for switches. I keep things real simple.

EDIT: I pigtail the neutral in 3-wire circuits of course.


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

Plan 9 said:


> I almost never have 3 romex's in a box intended for a receptacle, and if I do, I stab what I can and wrap the rest. I use 18" boxes for receptacles and 22" boxes for switches. I keep things real simple.
> 
> EDIT: I pigtail the neutral in 3-wire circuits of course.


Having 3 romex's in a box can save a lot of wire a lot of the time which means a lot of profit "whoop, whoop"


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

Sparky Joe said:


> Having 3 romex's in a box can save a lot of wire a lot of the time which means a lot of profit "whoop, whoop"


You are correct Sir! But you are a skilled, trained Electrician. We don't have too many of those types around here. My guys can't even read. I have dumbed down everything so that someone with the IQ of a tree sloth can follow my instructions...


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

Plan 9 said:


> You are correct Sir! But you are a skilled, trained Electrician. We don't have too many of those types around here. My guys can't even read. I have dumbed down everything so that someone with the IQ of a tree sloth can follow my instructions...


Guess that would make it a bit tough to make a buck, what part of California are you in? And haven't they implemented state licensing there already?

They hadn't yet when I didn't even know what romex was, but was given tools and told what to do.


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

I'm in Los Angeles. We have new requirements that electricians must obtain state certification, effective year end. Nobody takes it seriously. In fact the rule only applies to electricians working for electrical contractors, not GCs or anybody else.


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## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

Plan 9 said:


> I'm in Los Angeles. We have new requirements that electricians must obtain state certification, effective year end. Nobody takes it seriously. In fact the rule only applies to electricians working for electrical contractors, not GCs or anybody else.


The contractor I worked for(and where I lived) was in San Pedro, True Light Electric, very small shop so don't go gunning for them because they mean no harm :no: 

Very different here; I can't do side work unless I have a 'master electrician's' license or have a business license with someone on payroll that has a master's license. Kinda nice though to keep the wages up for a skilled trade. 
Can't be a journeyman electrician without 800 hours of school in 4 years nor maintain a jw license without 16 hours of school per year (and of course paying the state 60 bucks)

One thing that's dumb though; you can't work without a license and can't get a license without a job (a sponsor in electrical work), go figure right.


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

Sounds like a Catch 22. High standards are a very good thing, but only useful if the state actively chases down unlicensed people and puts them out of business, here in California, there is no enforcement activity at all. Once a year the CSLB will produce a video tape of a "sting" operation for the TV new agenceis, but aside from that dopey PR stunt nothing happens.

Just try to report unlicensed activity, they will get really annoyed and tell you to report it to the police.

Hey Joe, it's been nice chatting wih ya...


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## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

plan 9,anytime someone says it it a money thing(as oposed to a reliability thing),Big red flags go up for me.I am sorry but I am going to say you are a liar if you have installed a 100,000 backstabbers with no problems.What kind of back stabbers are you using.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

I wanna go for a ride on the yacht. Hey Plan 9, can I go for a ride on the yacht? I love yachts. Does your yacht have the G1000 NAV II on it?


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## rabbitgun (Nov 16, 2006)

mahlere said:


> You hear that Plan 9, karma will get you. I hope you enjoy your mansion and your yacht. I hope you feel good making money off the sweat of untrained laborers.
> 
> I know this post only sounds half serious, but I'm trying to stay within the posting rules of this site, so I can't say what I really want to say.
> 
> ...


Hear, hear!
I know I am new here and try to remain polite on these forums and will remain so. However, what is becoming of the electrical trade when electrical business owners apparantly take blatant pride in shoddy work and the use of illegal immigrants instead of qualified electricians?

Karma, yes I do belive that Karma will eventually correct the issue.

Please do not take this as a personal attack Plan9. I am sure that under all of the layers you are a good person. You may want to seek out some spiritual guidance at some point as a way to achieve some balance in your Karma. You know, the Yin and Yang.


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

OsNap said:


> And if I am such a imbecile and could NEVER make it in electrical then why did I just rewire 3 circits in a house and have it PASS inspection?
> 
> And the reason I said thoses things is it sounds like to me that you dont ake pride in your work and you are just in it for the money, tho I mabey be wrong.


You got a job to pass inspection? Well Sir, let me apologise profusely, I got you all wrong, even though you can't even spell the word "Circuit", you did pass inspection so you must have something on the ball!

And yes, I'm in it for the money, pride is a nonsensical word, try cashing pride at the bank.

I'm from California so I know what I'm talking about.

I wire houses cheaper than anybody in Los Angeles, and yes, my crew is a band of uneducated, smelly, shifty eyed, filthy illegal aliens, so what? By hiring these guys I'm performing a public service, if they weren't working for me, they'd be ripping off car stereos and doing daytime burglaries.

Sometimes when I see some of the work my guys do, I have to say "man, I'm glad I don't have to live here", but I'm yanking in an easy $3,500 a week PROFIT and I only have one truck!

You guys talk a lot of smack but when it comes right down to it, nice guys finish last.

Yeah boys, I'm in it for the money. Why aren't you?


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## rabbitgun (Nov 16, 2006)

My my, The negative karma is just exuding from this thread.


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## Plan 9 (Oct 22, 2006)

Well it's a beautiful day outside, I'm gonna ride my bicycle


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## rabbitgun (Nov 16, 2006)

WWWAAAAAaaaa?????, You mean there's another rabbitgun? I am shocked!


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

rabbitgun said:


> WWWAAAAAaaaa?????, You mean there's another rabbitgun? I am shocked!


dang negative karma is affecting your brain.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2006)

plan 9 said:


> Sometimes when I see some of the work my guys do, I have to say "man, I'm glad I don't have to live here", but I'm yanking in an easy $3,500 a week PROFIT and I only have one truck!


 
wow...


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## troubleseeker (Sep 24, 2006)

If you like always tracking down a problem, or enjoy blinking lights, back stab the wires. I cannot understand how a practice that causes so many problems and safety hazards can continue to meet code.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I think that topic has been thoroughly explored, and my electrician was just in to collect his pound of flesh from me....he read this and laughed as he left with money. He sai if it was such a grand idea, why did they make the holes for 14 gauge instead of 12 the way they used to be years back?


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

hey, i think the practice is despicable. but like I said, it makes me money and makes the world go round....


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