# tankless or tank?



## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

don`t know if this has been talked about , if so , can you let me know where to look it up?

gutting a house.
the have a tank now ( its an 80 gallon hooked up to solar panles , which they are doing away with.
also the tank is too big for the house ( its about 1800 sq. ft. , 3 bedrooms , husband , and wife only)
client wants a tankless'.
my plumbers blunt with his opinion
he said " why the hell would you want a tankless ?, they suck, stay with a tank "
he said only one or 2 brand are worth it , and they are the expensive german brand." he said the american ones are garbage , and don`t last long , or always have issues 
he said for what you pay , and how long they last ( maybe 3 or 4 years), you could get 2 tanks over the years and still pay less , and they would last way longer
he also said you don`t get the heat you would want from them anyway . 
we`re up-grading the panel , so electrics not an issue . 
space is not an issue.
the client just wants the most efficient , practical water heater.

whats your opinion?


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Tankless for unlimited hot water for shower sex


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

RobertCDF said:


> Tankless for unlimited hot water for shower sex


tanks alot robert!
green side up


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I'd say listen to your plumber.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Hot water is over rated.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

I put a Noritz gas in my house. There are 11 of us living here (7 kids). We have 4 full baths, dishwasher, & 2 washers/ 2 dryers. I've never had a hiccup or loss of hot water. Mine keeps up with the demand just fine. It's been cheaper to run than the power vent that was in here before. It all depends on the volume of hot water you want or need. 

It's probably not an economical option for 1-2 people unless they just want to enjoy the luxury of endless hot water.

I'd say find another plumber! He/she should have at least taken the time to explain options & cost vs benefits....not just written it off altogether.

I could comment alot more, but I'll leave it at that for now.

(edited to clarify that mine is gas - not electric)


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

If their collectors are good maybe they should go with a smaller tank with boiler backup or electric backup. Solar is good.
They are doing away with solar. Ok. There are great rebates out there for solar domestic hot water systems now. Solar is the way to go IMO.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

RobertCDF said:


> Tankless for unlimited hot water for shower sex


ABSOLUTELY.... I put a Takagi (Japanese - made in Japan) tankless in over 10 years ago and I've had ZERO issues with it and unlimited hot water. The wifey can start a load of whites in the laundry on HOT water or run the dishwasher while I'm in the middle of a steaming hot shower, and I never even know she's doing it.

Now about the shower sex, well, on that I can only speculate, but I'd tend to agree with Robert. :thumbsup:


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

If you go with electric plan on upgrading the service, not just the panel.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Lot of stuff going on here, not sure if you're talking about an electric tankless or not, but electric tankless are almost worthless, whereas gas tankless are unbeatable and come in an array of sizes, and are even gangable, to fit nearly any application.

Noritz are probably one of the best, I've installed several of them, and they have at least a 20 year life expectancy, and they can be repaired when they breakdown.

Your plumber should be able to discuss a variety of options with you, if you are thinking of integrating the solar panels. Some tankless can be used with preheated water, others cannot. If your plumber cannot discuss options with you, it might be time to shop for a new Turd Squeezer/Nipple Twister.














KillerToiletSpider said:


> Hot water is over rated.


Us Romans would have to disagree with that statement.


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

sorry , didn`t clarify 
he wants either electric tankless , or electric tank water heater

plumber did discuss it with the client , he said (as i explained in my post) about it being cheaper for them to go with a tank in his opinion

i don`t want to get a different plumber 
hes a bit gruff sounding , but a great guy who stands by his work and has been , and will be around for years

they have solar panels on the roof , but they`re proabably 40 years old . he wants them off the roof , he`s also removing the sky lights , and even a chimney , so there is no potential for leakes in the future,

sorry , mis quoted about the electric 
we are upgrading the entire service from existing 120 to 200-250 amp
waiting for architect to specifiy

just want to give the guy then right product.

i hear so many mixed reviews.
that the tankless don`t hold up long 
that they can break down easily
that they don`t give anough hot water , or water doesn`t get hot enough 
i was hoping to get some experience with somone who has long time experience with them.
not , from one person who has one , and hasn`t had a problem their one unit


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

....



Spike7 said:


> sorry , didn`t clarify
> he wants either electric tankless , or electric tank water heater
> 
> As it's already been mentioned, electric tankless isn't nearly as good as gas tankless - but honestly, what electric water heater is?
> ...


:blink:


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Spike7 said:


> sorry , didn`t clarify
> he wants either electric tankless , or electric tank water heater
> 
> sorry , mis quoted about the electric
> ...


Find out what unit he is going with PRIOR to upgrading the service. We have installed the electrical for many units, and the minimum circuit required has been 80 amps, with many requiring more.

I would not recommend a tankless, let the HO do their own research that way they won't be blaming you when/if it does not meet their expectations.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

You should probably go with your plumbers recommendation. Electric tankless are, as I mentioned, very problematic. I spec'ed one out for a client, and it ended up being cheaper to install a propane tank, and a propane tankless, than it would have been to upgrade the electrical service to handle the required load.

Remember, electric tankless power draws usually start at about 60 A at 240 V, and go up from there. 100 A is not uncommon.


I'm sorry if this isn't the info you want, but I don't install electric tankless, so I have very little experience with them. Alot more with gas, however.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

TxElectrician said:


> Find out what unit he is going with PRIOR to upgrading the service. We have installed the electrical for many units, and the minimum circuit required has been 80 amps, with many requiring more.


I....type....toooo.......sloooooow.......


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

CompleteW&D said:


> ....
> 
> 
> :blink:


 
do me a favor , don`t give me YOUR opinion ,
your a window and door guy as your name specifies .
your mis-quoting me 
your wrong with your answers
your being obnoxious
there are 200 , 225 ,and you can get a 400 amp panel and make it 250 ( not that we`re doing that)
don`t need to be schooled in electric , i`m not one.
and like i said , you don`t have any experiance in water heaters . you have experience with one water heater.
as a G.C. ,even when i use a sub for years , i still owe it to my clients to check my subs opinion , and not just blindly do what they say .
but it doesn`t mean he`s a jerk or he`s wrong , or that i don`t have faith in him
. its my job 


A.T.C. and the rest of you , thanks 
i got enough info from you all to know , its variable , and i`ll probably get different answers from different folks. 
i`ll let the home owner do his home work, and run it by his architect .
i`ll give him a few names of supplyers.

just trying to get input from people who know more about this product than myself .


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

CompleteW&D said:


> ....
> .....
> :blink:


Don't worry, I appreciate your opinion enough for him. 




A.T.C. said:


> I....type....toooo.......sloooooow.......


I appreciate it as I read slow.

Haven't heard good things about electric tankless but hear great things about gas. Option to install gas?


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Unfortunately, The Killer could probably give us all some very good info, if he wanted to. I imagine that someone with half of his knowledge and expertise would make a pretty darn good plumber. 

Sadly, all we get are useless wisecracks like this:



KillerToiletSpider said:


> Hot water is over rated.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

A.T.C. said:


> Unfortunately, The Killer could probably give us all some very good info, if he wanted to. I imagine that someone with half of his knowledge and expertise would make a pretty darn good plumber.
> 
> Sadly, all we get are useless wisecracks like this:


I have never seen an electric tankless heater that had a flow rate that I would install in a home, although I will admit I have also never really looked, around here gas is a much better option. 


And bathing should be done outside, in cold water. It cleanses the soul.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Spike7 said:


> do me a favor , don`t give me YOUR opinion ,
> your a window and door guy as your name specifies .
> your mis-quoting me
> your wrong with your answers
> ...


No you're not. You didn't like some of the answers you got! 

Your comments above at the beginning of the quote show your own ignorance of FACTS.

I trained as an electrician although it's not all I do. You admitted you're not. You're FOS about a 250 amp service.

You were offered some info from those of us who not only install tankless for customers, but use them ourselves.

Just go right ahead and keep using that plumber buddy you've got. You both make a good close-minded ignorant pair!

Sheesh! I could say a lot more, but I doubt even this was worth the effort...


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

> do me a favor , don`t give me YOUR opinion ,
> your a window and door guy as your name specifies .


Honestly Spike.... you haven't got a kloo what my experiences are or what kind of "guy" I am.

In my 54 years on this earth, I've worked every position imaginable in restaurants from washing dishes to being a general manager, I've worked in silk screen printing, sold liquor and wine at the wholesale level, sold building supplies at the wholesale level, sold residential heating and cooling - INCLUDING a fair number of water heaters (only tanks back then of course), sold specialty chemicals to the automotive repair industry and yes, even to specialty trades like Plumbers as well as a couple of private government contractors of all things.... and finally I've sold all kinds of windows, doors, siding, gutters and gutter protection, roofing, cabinet refacing, closet/garage organizing systems, sunrooms, room additions and screen/porch enclosures working at various home improvement companies.... all before starting my own exterior remodeling company. 

And, FWIW.... my best friend's dad right across the street was a sparky, my own father worked at the Indianapolis Power and Light company for 40 years and for about the last 25 years of her working life, my mom worked for a wholesale plumbing supply house.

So, am I an expert at the topic of conversation you started? NOPE.... but through sheer osmosis growing up, a tiny bit of personal experience in the business and my own user experiences.... I felt that my opinion was warranted. If you're not interested in what I have to say, then simply ignore what I have to say. 

It's not like I was trying to hijack or derail your thread.

Peace


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## Spike7 (May 18, 2012)

CompleteW&D said:


> Honestly Spike.... you haven't got a kloo what my experiences are or what kind of "guy" I am.
> 
> In my 54 years on this earth, I've worked every position imaginable in restaurants from washing dishes to being a general manager, I've worked in silk screen printing, sold liquor and wine at the wholesale level, sold building supplies at the wholesale level, sold residential heating and cooling - INCLUDING a fair number of water heaters (only tanks back then of course), sold specialty chemicals to the automotive repair industry and yes, even to specialty trades like Plumbers as well as a couple of private government contractors of all things.... and finally I've sold all kinds of windows, doors, siding, gutters and gutter protection, roofing, cabinet refacing, closet/garage organizing systems, sunrooms, room additions and screen/porch enclosures working at various home improvement companies.... all before starting my own exterior remodeling company.
> 
> ...


peace back at you buddy 

pride ego , and testosterone is getting the best of these retorts 

i know you were trying to help

but hey i just have to nail you on this one:
" through sheer osmosis " ???
ya gotta let me give you a hard time about that one !!
lol!!


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