# Ever have a Foreman refuse a job?



## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

I just had a foreman refuse to take over a job, saying it was too much. He inherited a large T&M job when the prior foreman resigned to head back west to work for his family. I think he got real nervous at the size of the job and the number of guys he was to handle. Frankly, we would never have assigned the job to him at the beginning, since we felt he'd crumble. So I guess we were right!

So now we put ourselves in a pickle. We asked a good human being with so-so leadership skills to take on something we knew was beyond his management capability, and he refused and got reassigned, and word is now spreading. I'm afraid of the whole inmates-running-the-asylum scenario. 

I think the best tack to take is to calm the guy down, talk to him and get him on another job, get someone else in there on the big T&M job. But how do you handle the refusal? I can't fire the guy. We're swamped right now. He's also highly skilled (though not a strong foreman), and does a great job on smaller projects. Plus we pushed him into this, knowing he was weak on big jobs. I tend to think it's our own dang fault. My partner is blowing a gasket. 

I'd like to hear stories or suggestions.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

I think you have a good team player if he was honest enough to tell you it's over his head. In many cases people tend to think they are qualified and we find out later, they aren't. Sounds like he saved you from a lot of hassle down the line.

I don't understand why you would consider firing him if he's a good craftsman and you have plenty of work.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Welcome to the site, there is really nothing to figure out here, if this employee makes the company $, place him where he is effective and move on. better off him telling you he was not up to the challenge, than have him accept it , and crash. put ego and emotion aside, and ask, WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COMPANY?

right on jason!!!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

You answered all your questions in your post already.



> I tend to think it's our own dang fault.


I'd agree. You guys need to get much better at understanding your employees strenghts and weaknesses and setting them up for success instead of failure.



> I can't fire the guy. We're swamped right now. He's also highly skilled (though not a strong foreman), and does a great job on smaller projects.


Fire him????? WTF???

Why would you fire a valuable employee who is highly skilled and great on smaller projects? Give him all the smaller projects and let him make the company money!!!!!

Stop trying to force square pegs into round holes.


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## excellencee (Feb 1, 2007)

I had a foreman refuse to work a job once about 6 years ago. I sat him down and we talked. I got his imput and decided to go on with the job against his advice. I ran the job and he was just a j-man on the job. His belief was that the GC was a big turd who would stiff us on the job. I assured him that the GC always paid before and this time was no different. Turns out the GC was using draws from this job to pay other jobs and there was no new jobs to cover this one. I'm still owed money that I'll never see. I guess the bottom line is to listen to your guys. Maybe they know something you don't.


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## nlgutters (Dec 18, 2007)

I dont know if i agree about not firing him yet.

You say he refused to do it. Did he do this for the good of the company knowing that he isn't quite qualifed for this position. or is he just a hot head and threw a huge fit in front of a bunch of employes?


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## Remodel Bud (Aug 13, 2008)

..............


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## Snow Man (Aug 18, 2008)

Yes , no workee , no payee. No problem.
there are many qualified men out there looking for work.


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## jazzbone (Sep 3, 2008)

Maybe you should see if he can oversee the job untill you find someone that way he can keep an eye on things, also is there a man on the job who might be ready to move up and is already familiar with the site, imagining the pressure of a job is sometimes more overwelming than doing it some people panic way to fast IMO


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

*Update*

I did speak to him again today. His concern is it's too big a project, and he doesn't want to be left with his behind in the wind. And he didn't yell when he refused. According to the project manager he said something along the lines of "Look this is too much for me to handle, I can't run this, let me go back to my project, because if I stay on this one I'm going to end up freaking out and quitting just to get out of it." Long and short of it is he is a good guy, just not for big jobs. He has the company record for small-project profit margin for a job a year ago. But he is going to try it out for a week. If he falters or wigs out, we have one or two less appealing options. I told him to call me each day so we can talk about his concerns.

But I will start looking for another strong foreman for sure.

Also, I don't want to fire him, not for one second. My partner says let him walk, I'm tired of these guys complaining, they have it too good, etc, etc. I think my partner is just an emotional guy and has trouble working the problem like an owner. He acts like the guys are pissing in his Cheerios, when all it really is is personality management. (I tend have ice water in my veins, and my wife calls me Mr. Spock.)


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## SethHoldren (Feb 13, 2008)

No team member is perfect. But it all boils down to attitude.

If an employee is very insubordinate and has a terrible attitude, that cannot be overcome and he should be released respectfully and gracefully.

But that doesn't sound like this guy's issue. It sounds like he came forward with an issue and addressed it. We all could be so lucky to be surrounded by a team who has the guts to do this.

You have to manage people with respect. And sometimes that can be a generational thing. The younger generation does not tolerate "drill sergeant" style management. A great competent employee from this generation, when treated like, "You'll do it because I _said_ you'll do it"...well, he will walk on you. So, if you know that up front, can't you just show him respect?

On the other hand, some guys need to be managed in a more forceful way to gain their respect. But this guy of yours does not sound like a guy you handle forcefully.

I've seen many bosses and business owners get into "pissing contests" with their employees. Seriously, we all need to grow up and treat our employees like adults. If you've reached the point of getting into a pissing contest with an employee, you haven't handled the situation properly. 

*We are all here by choice, whether employee or provider of employment.

*Whichever side of the coin you're on, all you can do is treat your counterpart with due respect. Acknowledge he is here by choice and appreciate him.

I believe if we take that approach we cannot lose.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I try hard not to do any one thing where I rely too heavily on any one person. Case in point, lose that person and lose that capability. In theory, everyone is replaceable. Your systems should dictate means and methods and the foreman's job to oversee and ensure everyone is adhering to your systems.

Think of McDonalds for example. Remove any one person for any reason what so ever and you can interject someone who has been trained the same to do the same job and they should be able to pick right back up within a reasoable ammount of time. granted the trades are much harder than flipping burgers but the theory is the same.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

The bottom line is you put him in a tough position...by your own admission, you knew he probably would not be capable, so where does the blame lie? The employee should be commended for knowing his own limitations, and you should respect that completely. 

If the job is that large, you probably need more then a foreman, maybe a PM on site.


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## dirtdiggler pt2 (Aug 22, 2008)

joasis said:


> The bottom line is you put him in a tough position...by your own admission, you knew he probably would not be capable, so where does the blame lie? The employee should be commended for knowing his own limitations, and you should respect that completely.
> 
> If the job is that large, you probably need more then a foreman, maybe a PM on site.


 
fully agree (& w/jason w and mike)

part of being a business owner is finding the right people for the right job. Sounds elementary.


you can't set someone up to fail. In the end, all it will accomplish is you losing money.



i wish more people would just come out and say "look, i just don't know what to do" .... rather of letting thier egos reign ... kudos to the foreman







contracting ... 10% construction .... 90% PEOPLE


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

Sorry guy to tell you this but your partner is right. He refused to take it because he likes his cake project where he can be left alone to smoke his hash that's obvious. If one of my guys pulled some bs like that they would go and I keep their paycheck.


sidenote edit; thank god he told you up front before you wound up paying for three months of f'ked up work. I would be happy it worked out that way actually. Costs less.


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## SethHoldren (Feb 13, 2008)

> Sorry guy to tell you this but your partner is right. He refused to take it because he likes his cake project where he can be left alone to smoke his hash that's obvious. If one of my guys pulled some bs like that they would go and I keep their paycheck.


Whoa....that's making a lot of assumptions, isn't it?

Sure, if he's smoking pot, fire him. Easy.

And if he's lazy and unmotivated, maybe even then you need to "free him up to pursue his destiny...elsewhere."

But what if he's just a competent guy who is smart and works hard, but he's still learning? And honest too, judging by the fact that he told you the truth about his capabilities. Do you not have room for guys like that, Brock?

I've built some very successful teams in construction. And without fail the most successful guys I've had on my team started out not knowing everything. But they were capable and had good attitudes.

I've had less success with guys who thought they knew it all and refused to learn. And guys like that won't tell you when you hand them something they can't handle. 

Fire him? Maybe. But not unless he really is a slacker. And you haven't painted that picture of him in this thread.

Sometimes you have to ask questions and trust your gut. 

If you fire him, you send the rest of your team the message that a guy will get fired when he says he can't handle a project when he really can't. That's not setting a good example.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Some are leaders though not always good.
Many are good but may not be leaders.

He sounds like a good man (hard to find today) you just need to find HIS slot in the company. Maybe too much was expected of him too quickly? Would some guidence help? In the end, maybe it WAS just too much for him.


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## Unforgiven (Sep 6, 2008)

Some people just aren't cut out for managing large projects, while others perform much better with pressure on them. I would never hold it against someone for knowing their limitations, especially if you have other work for him and he performs well at it. 
Also look at it like a larger company would. If the bank is short handed do they put a teller in the loan officer's office without making certain they're up to the job? If the Navy needs someone to fly a jet do they put the motor pool sargeant in the driver's seat, or put a trained and qualified pilot up?


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## Stevelsc8721 (Feb 21, 2008)

*Quiting*

This new generation of employes are still being breast fed by their mothers milk. They can and will walk at any stressfull suition. 

They have no responsibility at home, because they all live with their parents still. 

The ones that are good have a family to support and a house and mortage, this is the real world and parents are at fault today, they don't want to let go?

I got my wings when I took over a project way over my head from a young company that just started out in the business. I asked the supply houses for advice and they came to the project whenever I needed a helping hand. That was in 1980, I would give the person a shot and help him every day with praise and he might become the best foreman on the project some day.

It is in my opinon that people have low self esteams of themselves and are afraid of rejection and crtisims. That is how we learn, not from a drill seargent but a owner operator that shows an interest. It is easier to hire from within that outside.

My 2 cents.com:thumbup:


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## MBS (Mar 20, 2008)

Aggie67 said:


> I just had a foreman refuse to take over a job, saying it was too much. He inherited a large T&M job when the prior foreman resigned to head back west to work for his family. I think he got real nervous at the size of the job and the number of guys he was to handle. Frankly, we would never have assigned the job to him at the beginning, since we felt he'd crumble. So I guess we were right!
> 
> So now we put ourselves in a pickle. We asked a good human being with so-so leadership skills to take on something we knew was beyond his management capability, and he refused and got reassigned, and word is now spreading. I'm afraid of the whole inmates-running-the-asylum scenario.
> 
> ...


Where are you located?


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