# Nailer in a sandstone wall



## xlspecial (Sep 13, 2011)

I was wondering if anyone has any experience replacing something like this? At one time there was a covered porch on this side of the house and the nailer is pretty dry rotted. (You'll have that after 115 years I guess) We're thinking it's probably a 2x8 mortared into the wall.










The front of the house still has the covered porch but it needs a lot of work so we figure the nailer should be replaced there also. The beams are not notched very far into the wall at all which surprised me so the nailer has to be solid. Right now I'm concerned about jacking up the roof and having the beams slip out.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Edit-I should note this is my parents house that I have been helping them work on off and on over the past 20 years. Not something I am looking to do for a customer. Just trying to get an idea of what we are looking at here.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

What are you trying to do? Replace it with another piece of wood? Use it as a nailer again? Take it out and fill it in with masonry?


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## xlspecial (Sep 13, 2011)

Replacing it to use as a nailer again.

I'd imagine one would want to do it in sections so as to not remove a large amount of strength in the wall, but how would one attach the new wood to the sandstone?

Thanks


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

There are methods of propping the wall.
What is the wall's construction? ie 20inch solid stone.
Is the nailer bedded on mortar, and the stonework bedded on mortar over the top?
Is it possible to check the timber size first, it could be 4x2for example.


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## Sar-Con (Jun 23, 2010)

That there looks like a good challenge!

Can you determine the extent of rot? Perhaps it only is rotten for 1-2" into the depth of the wall? If that's the case, maybe you can chisel out the rot, and slide in a continuous new piece of lumber. Screw and glue, or find some old iron spikes and glue?


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## xlspecial (Sep 13, 2011)

The nailer is mortared in top and bottom and the stone walls seem to be 18-20" thick. Other than getting up there with a real long drill bit I have no idea how to find out just what the width of the nailer might be and I really don't want to open it up like that right now, allowing the weather to currently unexposed wood.

Sar-Con's idea might work well if there is good wood in there.

Basically trying to get some ideas here as if it's more than what we want to take on we want to be sure the contractor knows what he's doing as this is obviously not something a guy runs into every day. And if it's not too bad of a job we will do it ourselves while rebuilding the porch.

Seeing some of the tuckpointing work done on the house it's obvious not many guys around here know anything about working on something like this.

Thanks guys!

Here is what the whole house looks like.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Sar-Con's idea would save a lot of work.
If you can't get away with that and need to prop the wall, I would think that you could use these knocked into the joint above the nailer.







We sometimes have to take timber out of the inside walls using these. 
The Victorians sometimes used to put timber in the brickwork for fixing picture rails etc and many are now rotten.


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## xlspecial (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks Stuart. I'll keep those wall props in mind. Hopefully won't need them.

In searching for info online it's seems most of the websites coming up are from England and Scotland. Apparently this sandstone construction is a lot more common over there than here. I know I haven't seen another house like this in Wisconsin. 

The stone was actually quarried from the original owners quarry just up the hill behind the house.


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## stuart45 (Oct 7, 2009)

Some of them are solid sandstone through the walls, the stones being bonded together. Many of them however only use the good quality stone on the face and are backed up with brickwork or cheaper stones.
Others have a stone face and a skin of brick or stone on the inside face with a cavity in the middle which was filled with stone chippings known as heartings. They should have the odd bonding course of stones which go right through the wall to tie it all together.
You can't always tell the exact method of construction until you start to break into them.
The worst type of walls I've come across were called bungaroosh, built by the Regency builders. They used to build brick corners and frame reveals, and then put up timber formwork inbetween. This was filled with lime mortar, stones from the beach, old bits of brick, flint and wood, anything that came to hand. It's only the stucco and plaster that holds them up. Here's a couple of examples of them with the internal plaster removed.


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## xlspecial (Sep 13, 2011)

Interesting stuff Stuart. What's shown in those pics doesn't look much fun to work with.:blink:

The walls on this house are solid stone as I recall seeing the back side of it when we had the wall in the summer kitchen opened up. Well, solid stone outside with a wood frame inside. There is/was an airspace that the previous owners filled with foam insulation back in the 70's or 80's. Inside the house is built pretty much like others of the era with lath and horsehair plaster walls.

The outside entryways are over two feet coming through the walls. :blink:


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