# workers comp audit... BIG mess



## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

So I had my yearly workers comp audit in December. My policy expired and was renewed in October. At the beginning of January I get my adjusted premium... They want $13,000.00 for 6 months. Iused 100% subs for the first 6 months and experimented with a crew the last six. 

Ok so roofing carries a 36.9% WC rate. I know this. The problem is my employees do more than just roofing. The other problem is they lumped everyone into roofing.

Now we are disputing the adjustment. We already submitted one dispute with estimated hours spent and their respose was that we have to go all the way back to the first time card and specify exactly how many hours were spent doing what by whom. My insurance broker doesn't want to get involved at all and is ZERO help, so I am also looking for a new broker. 

This has been such a HUGE strain already, and the fun's just started.


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## go dart (Dec 6, 2005)

hey grump bad deal! i don't do this as i pay different rates for ea mans task ie plumbing, painting, shop carpenter, and carpenter on job but a company i know requires ea man to fill out what task they performed and at what height so he's not faced with the same thing your are. if they're records are kept seperating siding/windows/and roofing then you should pay actual rates not rounded up to the most expensive ##ing thing they cover.shoot your agent then get another


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Grumpy,
Are you using the functionality theat QB has to assign WC classifications as you produce payrolls? Doing so makes the auditing process a breeze.
I track (4) different classes daily and use the timesheet entry mode to track labor cost by job and WC class. My insurance company wanted about 20K in additional premiums based on their "estimated" audit and a couple of fast QB reports reduced it to about $5K


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

You really should have the guys recording their time for different tasks by a labor code on their time cards, and this wouldn't be so hard. I know I had my two (sometimes 3) recording time seperately that was spent digging ditches, unloading trucks, etc.


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## Peladu (Jan 8, 2006)

Grumpy --- Pekin Insurance is the fairest I have come across.
My broker is in Itasca…Email me if you want more info.
Four out of the last four guys I sent there, signed with them.


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

I have had Pekin for about 10 yrs, ( exellent company ) but I do not have workers comp with pekin.
I was told that in order to get different rates on the various type of work, people need to be dedicated to the various types of work.
It also sounds like Grumpy's subs didnt carry workers comp. so guess who pays.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Grumpy, I don't know if things are done differently there but here in NJ a GC will be billed during a WC audit for anybody who has done work for them UNLESS you get insurance certificates from any subs. Then, show the cert to the insurance auditor and whatever you paid that sub should come off your total. Anytime I have a sub work for me, they have to give me an insurance certificate.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Pipe I don't use quickbooks for payroll. I use a 3rd party then add a hournal entry to balance things out in quickbooks. However after spending some time thinking I have figured out a way to properly track hours.

peladu, check your email I do want your broker's info.

99% of my subs had WC. I admit one slipped it past me and I didn';t even notice. Good thing he only did a few small jobs. This really isn't the case though, it just comes down to tracking what eacn and every employee is doing every minute.

Tim that's the truth from my understanding as well.


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## Framin' Fool (Jan 30, 2006)

WOW I feel pretty lucky . My agent cant believe it either . I 'm only paying about $6.85per hundred of payroll . I'm excluded( its cheaper to carry maj med on myself than to include my salary as payroll) Take advice Do require subs to provide certs or withhold that percent from the total bill It's legal, Also ask about discounts ie Experience Mod , safety equipment , education


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## Framin' Fool (Jan 30, 2006)

Oh By the way didnt mention Im a carpentry contractor in Machigan and I've heard horror stories about wc in this state


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## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

You guys are lucky compared to us down in Louisiana. Pretty much the only company writing for a new contractor is the state and the rates are incredible. They lump everything into the highest class (roofing) and that is between 85 an 105 per 100 DOE. Just for general carpentry it is 47 in 100. I am paying out the nose.


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## Woodcrafter74 (Oct 5, 2005)

So I'm looking into hiring some help for the summer time, high school or college kid(s) to do some grunt work in the hot sun. I get a quote from my insurance broker for Workmen's Comp at a price of $17 per $100. So I'm feeling pretty good about that.....then he tells me that there's a minimum charge of $3,000.  That's no good if you only want summer help. 

Do you all have WC minimums too?


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Wood if your just looking for grunt labor consider Labor Ready. They send over a few grunts for the day and take care of all the labor burdens for you. They invoice you weekly and you write one check. If you are looking to teach these guys anything, then this isn't the solution for you.

Have you "shopped" around? That $3k minimum seems strange. Never heard of such a thing. $17 seems fair. I pay $19 for my gutters siding and door employees.


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## Woodcrafter74 (Oct 5, 2005)

Grumpy said:


> ...Have you "shopped" around? That $3k minimum seems strange. Never heard of such a thing. $17 seems fair. I pay $19 for my gutters siding and door employees.


No I haven't shopped around the WC yet. This was with a Nationwide broker--he's the best I found for G/L, not the cheapest, but I'll pay a little extra for a local with a personality. I'll call around on the WC though.


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## David Ross (Feb 26, 2008)

Framin' Fool said:


> WOW I feel pretty lucky . My agent cant believe it either . I 'm only paying about $6.85per hundred of payroll . I'm excluded( its cheaper to carry maj med on myself than to include my salary as payroll) Take advice Do require subs to provide certs or withhold that percent from the total bill It's legal, Also ask about discounts ie Experience Mod , safety equipment , education


WC is to cover yourself- If anything happens your med insu may not cover since the accident was on a job site (and you should have WC) then your mess. I wouldent suggest that.


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## sdc1 (Feb 1, 2008)

I just checked on wc and I would have to pay 2k min in upstate ny and about $15 a 100 of payroll for a carpenter.


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## wireless (Nov 2, 2006)

David Ross said:


> WC is to cover yourself- If anything happens your med insu may not cover since the accident was on a job site (and you should have WC) then your mess. I wouldent suggest that.


Around here (ca) WC won't cover the owner or their spouse.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

Doing any business is so expensive/cost nowadays.


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## Susan Betz (Feb 21, 2007)

Woodcrafter74 said:


> So I'm looking into hiring some help for the summer time, high school or college kid(s) to do some grunt work in the hot sun. I get a quote from my insurance broker for Workmen's Comp at a price of $17 per $100. So I'm feeling pretty good about that.....then he tells me that there's a minimum charge of $3,000.  That's no good if you only want summer help.
> 
> Do you all have WC minimums too?


They call them "down payments" here. What a crock.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

wireless said:


> Around here (ca) WC won't cover the owner or their spouse.


Check again; sole proprietors and general partners are not required to cover themselves, but _can elect _to be covered.


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