# The Other Shoe



## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

My phone has only rung for someone calling about new work 5 times since last October. The line is connected. The answering machine working. The listing is in the phone book. The website is up. The weather is great.

So where is everybody. It's "Spring"


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

You _do_ keep on eye on the news, etc., right?


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Just based on personal experience, waiting for the phone to ring is like watching paint dry.

Sometimes when the work isn't coming to you, you have to go to it. Get out there and hustle, beat the bushes, call your contacts and knock down some doors. 

Nothing beats the good old fashioned foot work.:thumbsup:


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## wellbuilt home (Oct 22, 2007)

It dead here also , 
Doesn't look like ill be building any additions any time soon . 
Out of the 10 good calls we received since oct 4 couldn't get money for there project 3 put the job off for a wire 2 are trying to GC the work them selves And 1 small addition mite go in july ? 
IT looks like a long year ahead .
We are plugging along just working every day . John


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Nothing too exciting here. I have been bidding alot more this year than last year. A majority of the work I have been bidding is commercial. I just bid 2 foundations. One of them is a 3,100 sq.ft. ranch and I have a verbal commitment, but nothing signed yet. 

I also just submitted a bid on a 28 lot development. It is for a customer that we have been working for for 21 yrs. We will do the job, but I am waiting to see if he tries to beat me up.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Very slow here as well. I'm not sure where everyone is, but they sure aren't fixing up their houses. I keep pricing things and they don't like the price, or need to get a loan or just decide to wait.

If my prices were out of line, I could understand it, but they aren't. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of money flowing right now. I am getting people who balk at replacing an IGU or having a window reglazed. We're talking a few hundred bucks or less. If people don't want to spend that, good luck getting any remodeling work. 

I agree, it may be a very long Summer.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

I hope it picks up guys. Get out and network, is the only advice I can offer. Its an election year, might be part of it.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

denick said:


> My phone has only rung for someone calling about new work 5 times since last October. The line is connected. The answering machine working. The listing is in the phone book. The website is up. The weather is great.
> 
> So where is everybody. It's "Spring"


When you started out, what did you do to get business? It certainly didn't come from the phone book... do more of that... :thumbsup:


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

KAP'S always right, on every forum...dammit. :laughing:


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

J F said:


> KAP'S always right, on every forum...dammit. :laughing:


Dangit'.. can't anyone keep a secret!... :laughing:

It's always easy to be right with other people's problems... just wish I was with my own... :no: :laughing:


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

KAP said:


> When you started out, what did you do to get business? It certainly didn't come from the phone book... do more of that... :thumbsup:


My father started our business in 1977. It has been built on word of mouth & clients who value good work @ a fair price (not just the cheapest price).
We have tried all types of advertising the last few years & every year usually depends on the builders that we have a history with. 


You can't invent work when it isn't out there. My town had 8 new houses built last year. In the good times there were 50 a year. Same story in surrounding towns. Hopefully other parts of the country are doing better.


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## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

denick said:


> My phone has only rung for someone calling about new work 5 times since last October. The line is connected. The answering machine working. The listing is in the phone book. The website is up. The weather is great.
> 
> So where is everybody. It's "Spring"


Been there, done that. Everything we need seems to be right in front of us yet there's a gap between where we are and where we want to be. This is a little deep, but very true. I've been in business an extremely long time, and if there is a "magic bullet", you'll find it in the next paragraph.

"Focus on what you want, not what you want to avoid. What you think about, talk about and focus upon is attracted to you. If you focus on what you don’t want, more of what you don't want will be attracted into your life. "The law of flotation was not discovered by the contemplation of the sinking of things." (Thomas Troward)


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> My father started our business in 1977. It has been built on word of mouth & clients who value good work @ a fair price (not just the cheapest price).
> We have tried all types of advertising the last few years & every year usually depends on the builders that we have a history with.


And when your father started out, the business didn't come from the phone book. As I recall, 1977 was during another tough economy, and your father started up and went out and got the business... High inflation and double-digit interest rates, gas crisis/lines, etc. 

Talk to your Dad and find out what he did to start up. 35 years of a business operating should have one heck of a contact list... Waiting for the phone to ring isn't a strategy. Getting on the phone is... if you don't have business, that should be your job 100% of the time... 




Upchuck said:


> You can't invent work when it isn't out there. My town had 8 new houses built last year. In the good times there were 50 a year. Same story in surrounding towns. Hopefully other parts of the country are doing better.


Then your only option is to close... either that or you can get proactive and keep going until you get a bite... You probably know this from 35 years, but it is interesting that business usually begets business. 

Being in business... Attitude is everything... as Henry Ford once said - *"whether you think you can or you think you can't... You're right!"*... :thumbsup:

Best of luck... 8^)


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

> Posted by KAP
> 
> And when your father started out, the business didn't come from the phone book. As I recall, 1977 was during another tough economy, and your father started up and went out and got the business... High inflation and double-digit interest rates, gas crisis/lines, etc.
> 
> Talk to your Dad and find out what he did to start up. 35 years of a business operating should have one heck of a contact list... Waiting for the phone to ring isn't a strategy. Getting on the phone is... if you don't have business, that should be your job 100% of the time...


We speak about it all the time. I've tried bidding public jobs & getting my name out with comercial builders. I maintain that there just isn't much work out there. We've also grown quite a bit since the beginning. It's quite different trying to stay busy when you're doing driveways & lawns compared to having all types of iron sitting around.



> Posted by KAP
> Then your only option is to close... either that or you can get proactive and keep going until you get a bite... You probably know this from 35 years, but it is interesting that business usually begets business.
> 
> Being in business... Attitude is everything... as Henry Ford once said - "whether you think you can or you think you can't... You're right!"...
> ...


Two things you're assuming is that I'm not being proactive & that I'm not working right now. I've got some work but the phone calls for new work is non-existent. Talking with local building inspectors & realtors, they don't see much coming up.

I appreciate your point of view. Some people are optimistic & others pessimistic. I figure it's easier to complain & rant on this site & to be more optimistic dealing with clients & on the job site. This site is like stress relief.


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## rmcqueary (Mar 8, 2012)

We were in the same boat seems like 3 weeks ago, now out of the blue the phone is ringing again.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

KAP said:


> And when your father started out, the business didn't come from the phone book. As I recall, 1977 was during another tough economy, and your father started up and went out and got the business... High inflation and double-digit interest rates, gas crisis/lines, etc.
> 
> Talk to your Dad and find out what he did to start up. 35 years of a business operating should have one heck of a contact list... Waiting for the phone to ring isn't a strategy. Getting on the phone is... if you don't have business, that should be your job 100% of the time...
> 
> ...


i find your response to upchuck a touch "condescending"....and had been directed at this old fart, probably would have taken it as somewhat of an insult...it's very hard on an internet forum to be wholly aware of somebody's local market unless you live there. my market? we were a 120-140 home per year market 10 years ago. now? maybe 20-25...did i lose some competition? no.....even if i looked at my marketing and my productivity rates...how does it tie this into the fact, that i become let's say...20% more efficient...my hungry competition is still here and are attempting to do the same, most awarded bids are at cost or below, i'm paying double for my fuel i was 5 years ago, my insurance hasn't gone down, my labor costs haven't gone down, my utilities at my shop haven't gone down, the price of my equipment and repairs haven't gone down. i think upchuck's point was, and reading between the lines...our markets must be very similar...the pie hasn't gotten any bigger, you have as many or more eating that pie, the price of the slice is higher...and is a lot less satisfying and doesn't taste as good as it did 5-10 yrs. ago.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

dayexco said:


> i find your response to upchuck a touch "condescending"....and had been directed at this old fart, probably would have taken it as somewhat of an insult...it's very hard on an internet forum to be wholly aware of somebody's local market unless you live there. my market? we were a 120-140 home per year market 10 years ago. now? maybe 20-25...did i lose some competition? no.....even if i looked at my marketing and my productivity rates...how does it tie this into the fact, that i become let's say...20% more efficient...my hungry competition is still here and are attempting to do the same, most awarded bids are at cost or below, i'm paying double for my fuel i was 5 years ago, my insurance hasn't gone down, my labor costs haven't gone down, my utilities at my shop haven't gone down, the price of my equipment and repairs haven't gone down. i think upchuck's point was, and reading between the lines...our markets must be very similar...the pie hasn't gotten any bigger, you have as many or more eating that pie, the price of the slice is higher...and is a lot less satisfying and doesn't taste as good as it did 5-10 yrs. ago.


*"Condescending"*?... :blink:

Well, that's certainly not my intent... :no:

What it all comes down to is you either adapt or you go under. *"Below cost"* business does not exist or should not exist in your mind, because it costs you more than you think. If you are chasing after that by trying to buy business, all you are doing is putting off the inevitable. It cascades quickly.

That said, I guarantee you that someone in your market is not only making money, but more than you are presently. The reverse is also true... someone is making less. 

If you don't have business in the hopper, that's your job 100% of the time until you do. What I am encouraging others to do is to do MORE of what you need to do to get business. In most cases, this activity begets activity. What doesn't work 100% of the time is doing nothing or waiting for the phone to ring. 

What come's across is that you are selling based on price... you are not retail... that means that you have to actively SELL... which may mean upping your game in this area... I don't know your skill-set...

The more YOU focus on price, the more the customer will as well... Are you saying that your company is the same as all the other companies? If it is, if you don't have something of value to offer above your competition to justify your rates, or a way to differentiate yourself from the mass, you need to come up with something.

You mentioned your fuel cost going up. You adjusted your price to account for that to pay for the increase in another companies profits, right? Then why can't you do the same for your OWN company? Why can you RAISE your price to accommodate the profits of another company, but not your own?

When you say.. *"the pie hasn't gotten any bigger, you have as many or more eating that pie, the price of the slice is higher...and is a lot less satisfying and doesn't taste as good as it did 5-10 yrs. ago."*

What you are tacitly acknowledging is that there IS business out there, enough so that there is actually MORE eating the pie. Businesses don't run on thin air, so the question is not the business, but you EXPANDING your slice of the pie. The pie is NOT a zero-sum gain...

Expand your geographically area by 10%, expand the services you are offering.... ADAPT... We've been through the worst part of the recession and you are still around. You did SOMETHING to stay there. 

Do MORE of that... and if you have to do MORE of it to get the price you need to stay in business, I'd rather do that (we do) than to work for "at cost" with no profit, as it's usually THOSE jobs that end up costing us money. But you should NEVER work at under cost...

Best of luck... 8^)


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

KAP, may i ask what business you're in? it says "custom"...i have no clue what that might be.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

dayexco said:


> KAP, may i ask what business you're in? it says "custom"...i have no clue what that might be.


Sure... additions, remodeling, kitchen, bath, custom cabinetry, countertops, furniture, tiling, flooring, etc...


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

it's very hard, for you or i to compare each others business...i am guessing, you have some form of a shop, so do i...i'm assuming you have some form of transportation to get to your job and back...so do i...you do bathrooms, kitchens. etc...it'd be my guess for the most part, you can transport the tools you need to and from your jobsite either in your pickup, or a 8 x 20 trailer...i would venture to say, i could be totally wrong here...but that my specialty equipment..oh for Jesus's sake...why am i arguing this with you? you sell a kitchen, bathroom...run to home depot, or a cabinet supplier...buy or have them build the sheet and install them. to me, it's quite apparent you have zero clue as to the differences in our business models...our up front and CONTINUING costs...it'd be my guess it costs the average underground contractor a LOT more daily to have our stuff sit in the driveway idle...than your operation. and it'd be my guess that i'm quite a lot older than you, have read a lot of the same "hype me up, get me in the business groove" books that you have. i wish you well, i don't want to put out your fire...but for a remodeler...to come into a thread as this...and try to compare we vs. you...i think is a total waste of your and my time.


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