# SIP Electrical Wiring



## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm sure this topic has been brought up. I'm gonna build a SIP home. It sounds logical so far. I know one thing for sure I'm gonna need more basic holes than they have predone in their panels. Has anyone had to add lots of receptacles,switch boxes, way beyond pre-done amounts? Is it a pain or no biggie. I hope my inspector doesnt make me derate romex with new code? Same with plumbing...Trying to get numbers for loan together.

Thanks in advance

Here's the model http://www.valubuild.com/fp_ranch_36x68.htm


----------



## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

I have no idea what SIP stands for.

If it's one of those modular homes get ready to pull the hair out of your head.

Buy a tone generator too.


----------



## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Magnettica said:


> I have no idea what SIP stands for.
> 
> If it's one of those modular homes get ready to pull the hair out of your head.
> 
> Buy a tone generator too.


Structural insulated panels


----------



## cmec (Nov 3, 2007)

Baseway Or Wiremold 4000 On Exterior Walls Dont Forget To Budget Money For An Air To Air Heat Exchanger And Or Outside Air/ MakeUp Air System There Really Tight, Gas Has To Escapr Somewhere.


----------



## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Bubbles said:


> I'm sure this topic has been brought up. I'm gonna build a SIP home. It sounds logical so far. I know one thing for sure I'm gonna need more basic holes than they have predone in their panels. Has anyone had to add lots of receptacles,switch boxes, way beyond pre-done amounts? Is it a pain or no biggie. I hope my inspector doesnt make me derate romex with new code? Same with plumbing...Trying to get numbers for loan together.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Here's the model http://www.valubuild.com/fp_ranch_36x68.htm


That's a big ass ranch with a lot of bathrooms to clean. There was a post a while back with some kooky lady that was having one built but it was deleted I think. There a little bit different but not bad for anyone who has done remodel work. One thing that was important was no recessed lighting in the ceilings if they are SIPs (vaulted), not just cans any type of recessed light has the potential to create condensation problems. Find out who the manufacturer of the panels for the house you want, they'll have materials specifically about the electric, some even include NEC and code references for inspectors.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

My experience wiring SIP homes can be summed up in two words: SIPs suck. My feelings on wiring ICF and log homes are similar. Give me something normal like wood frame, concrete block, or poured concrete.


----------



## tdavis (Feb 1, 2008)

*Sucking SIPS*

This is a post that I also just set up in the ICF question about almost the same thing....


Since so many people here are complaining about the wiring of SIPS, Log walls and ICF's, what form of Wireless switching would work best for you? If you didn't need to run ANY Romex at all to any switch locations, what would work best from an installers point of view? would you want to see a receiver in each lighting zone? a contactor panel located in an attic or a crawlspace? and I'm not talking about X10 or something you need to program with a computer, just simple switches with remote receiver capability. Running Romex to the lights has been, imho, the easy part of SIP or ICF, Log wiring. (sip ceilings are a pain regardless) 

we are working on several new designs right now and your opinions may create the latest controls. our newest trial is a remote receiver that receives the signal to control 8 lighting zones, this is run via cat 5 back to a contactor panel that is fed by one 15 or 20A dedicated breaker. the lights are then fed from the contactor panel out to the light zones. Is Dimming ability important? We are trying hard to make it easier for the sparky's on ICF's and log walls and this kind of feedback is really important. 

Thanks!

Troy

I left my signature off this one because I am really not trying to advertise here...


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

tdavis said:


> ... what form of Wireless switching would work best for you? If you didn't need to run ANY Romex at all to any switch locations, what would work best from an installers point of view?


I've used the "Lightning Switch" several times in the recent past with great results. No battery required. The switch has a piezo element (like a barbecue igniter) that clicks every time you press the switch to create the energy for the transmitter. 

I would not, however, recommend wiring a home from new with wireless switching. I use them for times when there's really no choice. In an ICF or SIPS homes, a GE RR7/RR9 system would be quite convenient.


----------



## Magnettica (Dec 19, 2006)

mickeyco said:


> Structural insulated panels


Thank you.


----------



## tdavis (Feb 1, 2008)

mdshunk said:


> In an ICF or SIPS homes, a GE RR7/RR9 system would be quite convenient.


MD, this is similar to what we are working with. A remote relay station is the contactor panel I was mentioning above. you still need to wire the switches in the GE example, right? If you are going to go through the trouble of remote relays wouldn't wireless be a good way to go? Just curious what would keep you from doing a whole house with wireless? 

Thanks-
TD
Lighting switches are great, if you need an alternative that has the same function but looks just like a decora switch, get with me next time you need one.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

tdavis said:


> Lighting switches are great, if you need an alternative that has the same function but looks just like a decora switch, get with me next time you need one.


Okay, I'm all ears...


----------



## tdavis (Feb 1, 2008)

*enocean*



mdshunk said:


> Okay, I'm all ears...


Enocean makes a switch that looks just like a decora but functions in a similar fashion as a lightning switch, Siemens developed the technology and then spun off Enocean as an industrial component to further develop the batteryless, wireless technology. Enocean now has over 10,000 buildings with these controls at the helm. Life cycle push tests are at 100,000 pushes. 
www.enoceanwireless.com/switches








The switch in the middle is an enocean wireless switch, the 2 on the sides are leviton standard decora switches. its 3/8" thick and has a surface mount option as well. 

send it to a receiver up to 150' feet away and you are good to go, we are currently working on a remote relay station and looking for input. 

"contractor" is a good discount code for the site.

TD :thumbup: (I do NOT work directly for enocean)


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

tdavis said:


> Enocean makes a switch that looks just like a decora but functions in a similar fashion as a lightning switch,


Thanks! I just bookmarked that page. That brand is about twice as expensive as lightning switch, but has a more appealing look.


----------



## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Can't tell the difference.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> Which one is it now?


I don't know. None of them look like walnut shells.


----------



## Bubbles (Sep 27, 2007)

*Bubble*

I'm starting to feel my bubble bursting. I'm calling my brother the framer and get him started....Those switches were pricy. 

Thanks for the info....its 60% burst now..keep bursting til its blown up if you wish.


----------



## Ponsse (Dec 12, 2007)

I've only done a couple, but both were not prewired to the specs on the plans. It's been a few years but I remember that the homeruns were to short to make it to the lighting panel so I had to use splice boxes, pretty ugly thing to do on new construction. I have also had to use MC cable, just buried it in the drywall, to get to a light that was forgotten in a vaulted ceiling. 
Other than that, the homeowners have been very happy with their houses heating bill.
ONe other thing, the switchlegs coming down through the ceiling into the interior walls that you will have to build yourself, were cut off to short also, had to move the box a little from were it should have been.


----------



## te12c02w (Jun 1, 2007)

SIPS!!!!! Those things are for sure a pain. They take a lot more time than normal installations. One big ***** I have about them is that with the standard chases you cannot get a phone and receptacle close enough together to be of any use. They will be separated by at least 4' with standard construction. If you are willing to pull your cat 5's and coax in the same chase as power you can of course get them closer but that is something I have never been willing to do. Here is another use for your diversibit. cut your hole in the osb and run the diversibit down to the crawl space, basement or even floor level and use wiremold base trim for power and lv.
Otherwise we have been left with the time consuming process of using gangable metal boxes with the adjustable ears and setting them extended the depth of the drywall. Actually, the boxes we have been using can only stick out 1/2". If it is going to be stucco on the walls then Arlington has some boxes that are a little easier to monkey with. Check out FX751 and FX121. They also make a round box that will fit a standard receptacle that you can use a hole saw to cut out.
When we want to make openings where there are none, we use the standard chase up from the floor to about 2' (which is sort of standard for the horizontal chases, cut a hole with a hole saw and save the plug to be reused later) and then fish sideways through the foam. Fish tapes are almost worthless. Romex doubled over works as well as anything. It seems like the panels we worked with carry specs that will not allow horizontal chases of minimun size to be cut in the osb, but will allow vertical.
Another option is to sit down before the panels are ordered and figure the layout and have custom chases built in. No one I've ever worked for has liked this option.
Make sure, make sure, make sure that when they are setting the trusses, someone is there to drill the top plates where the chases are. There is almost never room to drill those later. Holes in the flooring where the chases are is a definite advantage if you can accomplish it.
The contractors that we have worked for that use these things tell us that the salesmen tell them that there is no problem wiring them. "Hell, we've got contractors that love them and say they can wire them faster than conventional framing". I just tell them to bring them in. I KNOW for a fact there is no magic potion here. Time consuming and messy any way we have tried it.


----------



## excellencee (Feb 1, 2007)

I've bid a few SIPs homes recently. I'm always up for a new challenge. I'm not expecting it to be too difficult though, I've wired ICF and about 18-20 log homes.


----------



## tdavis (Feb 1, 2008)

*don't pop*



Bubbles said:


> I'm starting to feel my bubble bursting. I'm calling my brother the framer and get him started....Those switches were pricy.
> 
> Thanks for the info....its 60% burst now..keep bursting til its blown up if you wish.


 
You will thank yourself when the work is done and you are sending small checks to the utility companies and keeping your carbon footprint small... it's more effort but the long term paybacks are great.


----------



## Ponsse (Dec 12, 2007)

tdavis said:


> You will thank yourself when the work is done and you are sending small checks to the utility companies and keeping your carbon footprint small... it's more effort but the long term paybacks are great.


 
What's this, another Gore disciple? I was always under the impression that we wanted to leave our footprint, so eons from now someone will know we were here.
Did you know Gore partially owns and is the chairman of the company that he's telling everybody to buy their carbon credits from. It's called Generation Investment Management. Pretty smart guy, scare everybody into buying your product! 
It's actually to bad this global warming thing is bull, my thermometer says it's -10 F right now and I have to work outside today.


----------

