# Hurricane shutter install on patio sliding door



## rpk7309 (Jun 27, 2014)

Anyone on here ever install accordian-style hurricane shutters on a patio slider door (ones that close vertically)? Wondered how easy or diffucult it was...thanks


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

rpk7309:

No, but this week I billed for over 2K to restore 11 panels in 4 sliding doors. The customers were delighted because this means they didn't have to spend about $27,000.00 on code-required hurricane doors with the turtle glass tinting. The light pollution on the coast confuses the baby turtles so they head for your living room instead of the moonlight out to sea.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

I have only seen the type of shutters which come down from above and are made of extruded aluminum or pvc, etc.


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

Kowboy said:


> rpk7309:
> 
> No, but this week I billed for over 2K to restore 11 panels in 4 sliding doors. The customers were delighted because this means they didn't have to spend about $27,000.00 on code-required hurricane doors with the turtle glass tinting. The light pollution on the coast confuses the baby turtles so they head for your living room instead of the moonlight out to sea.


Why would they need to spend 27 grand on code approved doors? If they put shutters over standard doors and and close them during turtle season, wouldn't that work?


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

rpk7309 said:


> Anyone on here ever install accordian-style hurricane shutters on a patio slider door (ones that close vertically)? Wondered how easy or diffucult it was...thanks


Nope, but I watched them a bunch a times. Read the installation specs.



Kowboy said:


> rpk7309:
> 
> No, but this week I billed for over 2K to restore 11 panels in 4 sliding doors. The customers were delighted because this means they didn't have to spend about $27,000.00 on code-required hurricane doors with the turtle glass tinting. The light pollution on the coast confuses the baby turtles so they head for your living room instead of the moonlight out to sea.


So you fixed 11 panels on what type of shutters?
27K , condo, 8' doors, elevator access? That sounds like that quote could be in the ballpark.
I thought you just needed to close your drapes and have ''turtle lights'' on the exterior. Or you can be fined.
All new builds have to be ''turtle code''.




Stormstopper said:


> Why would they need to spend 27 grand on code approved doors? If they put shutters over standard doors and and close them during turtle season, wouldn't that work?


How is the shutter bus. in your area? I see a lot of shutter companies have added/offer window installations in their scope over the last several yrs. People would rather put that cash into newer energy efficient impact windows once they get the price of shutters. But I would guess there is still a good commercial market?


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

Stormstopper said:


> Why would they need to spend 27 grand on code approved doors? If they put shutters over standard doors and and close them during turtle season, wouldn't that work?


The oceanfront home in question was built in 1972 and had the original sliding doors. I replaced the rollers that were replaced in '94 or so. Many were corroded solid. 

Shutters are an alternative to door replacement, but have no insulation value. The original doors are solid 1/4" glass, unlike modern layered doors.

I don't think you'd want to raise and lower a hurricane shutter every time you went in and out during turtle hatching season.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Wow, those doors are old. 72......I won't touch any old window or slider repairs. I wear enough hats as it is. :thumbsup:

Good for you Kowboy. :cowboy:


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Kowboy said:


> The oceanfront home in question was built in 1972 and had the original sliding doors. I replaced the rollers that were replaced in '94 or so. Many were corroded solid.
> 
> Shutters are an alternative to door replacement, but have no insulation value. The original doors are solid 1/4" glass, unlike modern layered doors.
> 
> I don't think you'd want to raise and lower a hurricane shutter every time you went in and out during turtle hatching season.


With that view, I'd never leave the house. Amazing.


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

Big Shoe said:


> Nope, but I watched them a bunch a times. Read the installation specs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I'm a manufacturer only and ship all over the country so business is quite steady. Our product wouldn't work for the OP's application because it is clear, but I have seen other opaque models that would. I don't know the cost differential so maybe $27k isn't such a bad price but I just can't stand the idea of unprotected "impact" glass on a ground floor.

IMO, "impact" windows are a complete misnomer because impact is the thing that they AREN'T good at. I just did a hurricane expo a couple weeks ago and demonstrated the impact strength of a window vs. our clear shutter - not much of a contest. One rap with a hammer and the impact window is trash. I cannot understand why folks want to pour money into windows just to have to buy them again when they break. That is why none of my dealers will recommend the use of impact windows for a ground floor application unless they are in a protected area.


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

Kowboy said:


> The oceanfront home in question was built in 1972 and had the original sliding doors. I replaced the rollers that were replaced in '94 or so. Many were corroded solid.
> 
> Shutters are an alternative to door replacement, but have no insulation value. The original doors are solid 1/4" glass, unlike modern layered doors.
> 
> I don't think you'd want to raise and lower a hurricane shutter every time you went in and out during turtle hatching season.


Kowboy, I was thinking about something that slid open horizontally. Open in the morning and closed at night. True, the only time you would get any insulation value is when it is closed. 

Our product has great insulation value, but it is clear so it would be useless in your application.

Judging from the corrosion, all of the doors weren't used regularly, either. I just hate the the thought of exposed glass on a ground floor application. As the saying goes, "If it's made of glass, it's gonna' break."


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

Love the Henry Ford quote!!! How far we have strayed.....


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

rpk7309 said:


> Anyone on here ever install accordian-style hurricane shutters on a patio slider door (ones that close vertically)? Wondered how easy or diffucult it was...thanks


There are many manufacturers that have roll-down shutters that close vertically. Some are exterior mount (like hurricane shutters) some are interior mount (like indoor mall storefronts). Accordion shutters usually work horizontally, but I'm sure there is a vertical model that I'm not aware of.

The exterior versions are usually hollow aluminum or foam-filled. I've heard of pvc models but can't be sure if they are hurricane approved or not. Someone even makes one that has polycarbonate slats that allow light to come through when closed.

There are literally TONS of them installed in Florida. Some are manually deployed, some electric. Some require an interior support bar, some don't. In addition to installation, there is annual maintenance required to minimize the chance of failure at the time of deployment. There are even battery back-up systems in case of power failure and internet interfaces that allow you to activate them from your smartphone - just about anything imaginable if your pockets are deep enough.

Like anything else. the installation of the 1st one is slow and a learning experience, but after that they go smoothly (this information comes from my dealers). The big issue is clearance! Make sure that there is enough space above the doorway to accommodate the storage hood and enough space on the sides for mounting the rails. Other than that, I'm told it just requires a little common sense. 

The biggest drawback to any type of opaque system is security. Here in Florida the snowbirds deploy their shutters when they leave for the summer. This tells everyone in town that the structure is vacant. Gangs and drug dealers find a way to break-in from the rear of the dwelling and take up residence to party and cook meth and crack. They stay for a few days or a few weeks, cook their wares and strip the building of all scrap-able materials before they leave. The fact that no one can see in gives them all the time that they need to do whatever they want and search the home thoroughly for valuables. When the residents return the following fall they have a substantial loss and a real mess on their hands. 

I hope that I have helped you.


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

rpk7309 said:


> Anyone on here ever install accordian-style hurricane shutters on a patio slider door (ones that close vertically)? Wondered how easy or diffucult it was...thanks


Lets get real simple on this. Its Easy. 

Top lip is screwed in at top (typically in a header or such), bottom is a walk over track that bolts either into the concrete or deck (may have to block depending on code). 

Done.


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

Stormstopper said:


> Well, I'm a manufacturer only and ship all over the country so business is quite steady. Our product wouldn't work for the OP's application because it is clear, but I have seen other opaque models that would. I don't know the cost differential so maybe $27k isn't such a bad price but I just can't stand the idea of unprotected "impact" glass on a ground floor.
> 
> IMO, "impact" windows are a complete misnomer because impact is the thing that they AREN'T good at. I just did a hurricane expo a couple weeks ago and demonstrated the impact strength of a window vs. our clear shutter - not much of a contest. One rap with a hammer and the impact window is trash. I cannot understand why folks want to pour money into windows just to have to buy them again when they break. That is why none of my dealers will recommend the use of impact windows for a ground floor application unless they are in a protected area.


Since I have experience and have installed Shutters and Windows over the last 12 years......

Unless you build a house with specific designs of hurricane shutters, then most installations are ugly and create huge leaking issues. Also, can create fire hazards as shutters are Not supposed to be used in non storm related times. 

Impact Windows and Doors are Impact RESISTANT. They are meant to be a sacrifice to save you, the home and your contents. 

Beyond the reasoning of having to replace glass if it gets broken, normally during a HURRICANE. Impact windows also provide insulating value, security and you do not have to remember to close them before you leave every time to provide protection, where as most people close and locks their windows. Oh and you can escape out of them during an emergency, easily. 

And yes, some shutters can be opened from the interior when the locks are made that way, but you and I both know its a pain in the arse and code only requires 1 exit point in a hurricane so most shutters are not installed for that purpose. :thumbup:

/rant


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

Oh, and for those that think your are all good to go with any hurricane solution:


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

TLHWindows said:


> Since I have experience and have installed Shutters and Windows over the last 12 years......
> 
> Unless you build a house with specific designs of hurricane shutters, then most installations are ugly and create huge leaking issues. Also, can create fire hazards as shutters are Not supposed to be used in non storm related times.
> 
> ...


I sure wish that you had been at the hurricane expo with me and heard all of the folks that visited my booth who believe that their impact windows were "hurricane proof" and wouldn't break. They were a bit shocked when they saw a live demonstration. Most of them were retirees who spent thousands with the belief that they weren't gong to need to buy windows ever again. For many, no replacement was THE reason they purchased in the first place. The certainly weren't made aware of the required replacement - at least not the ones that i spoke with.


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

I don't doubt that customers are mis-lead (lied to) and told that impact window glass doesn't break. That is on the crappy companies that take advantage of people and straight lie. 

Seems that for every good company there are 10 bad ones.


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

TLHWindows said:


> I don't doubt that customers are mis-lead (lied to) and told that impact window glass doesn't break. That is on the crappy companies that take advantage of people and straight lie.
> 
> Seems that for every good company there are 10 bad ones.


Ain't that the truth!! Not so sure if your ratio is correct, tho'. Do you offer the shutters that you install to customers to protect their impact window investment or are they okay with knowing they will have to buy new ones when the hurricane impact windows get broken?


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

My customers who buy impact windows are fine with knowing that the window will have to be replaced if it is damaged during a storm or whatever. Typically falls on insurance at that point so they don't care. 

If the glass is damaged during somthing mild, I can replace the glass pretty cheap. 

I have had to replace/repair shutters because of damage so to me it doesn't matter what I am repairing.


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

TLHWindows said:


> My customers who buy impact windows are fine with knowing that the window will have to be replaced if it is damaged during a storm or whatever. Typically falls on insurance at that point so they don't care.
> 
> If the glass is damaged during somthing mild, I can replace the glass pretty cheap.
> 
> I have had to replace/repair shutters because of damage so to me it doesn't matter what I am repairing.


They must have some pretty good insurance. Mine has a $2000.00 deductible so if the lawn mower whips a rock at a window and breaks it, a ladder falls into it or the neighborhood kid tries out his new sling-shot on it, the 1st 2 grand come out of my pocket.

Buying shutters is like buying windows, if you don't do your homework, you end up with something that doesn't do what you wanted it to do in the first place. If they require regular maintenance or repairs, don't function when needed or break, they probably aren't a good purchase to make. 

Many shutters and windows require maintenance that the buyer isn't ware of at the time of purchase. That is currently the plight of many who purchased clad wooden windows who now have rotted windows or those who bought pvc framed windows who now have cracked, broken or bowed units that won't open or close because of intense exposure to the elements. It's also common for those who spent big bucks on roll-down shutters and now have broken gears, jammed gearboxes, fried motors and tracks or hoods full of insect nests. 

It's tough to get the facts from salespeople who are trying to make a living, but not good enough at it to do it without doing some tap-dancing around the facts. A lack of business ethics is why the phrase "caveat emptor" is necessary in our world today. As you pointed out, there are a lot of sub-standard companies out there.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Couple things. Yes, I've seen cracked impact windows. But never any broken through. I've also seen crappy, thin glass windows on homes that made it through all 3 hurricanes a few yrs ago, no shutters. Go figure.

And I recently had a Wind Storm Mitigation Inspection on my home. I have all impact windows. But it was noted that I have ''no protection against flying debris''. Implying that I have no shutters. 

And, no, I'm not adding shutters. :no:


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## Stormstopper (Oct 10, 2012)

Big Shoe said:


> Couple things. Yes, I've seen cracked impact windows. But never any broken through. I've also seen crappy, thin glass windows on homes that made it through all 3 hurricanes a few yrs ago, no shutters. Go figure.
> 
> And I recently had a Wind Storm Mitigation Inspection on my home. I have all impact windows. But it was noted that I have ''no protection against flying debris''. Implying that I have no shutters.
> 
> And, no, I'm not adding shutters. :no:


TLH may want to comment here. I'm not a window expert but I believe that if they are "hurricane rated" windows, the inspection is correct - if they are "hurricane impact" windows, your inspection is deficient and you may not be getting the discount percentage to which you are entitled.


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

The only Wind Mitigation forms I have ever seen either have "openings" as:
Protected: Then what kind of protections (Large Missile, Small, Miami Dade). 
OR
No Protection.

The inspector can not mark off for impact windows and then say you don't have protection against wind flying debris... duh thats what the impact window is for....

Now the form is super confusing (built by insurance companies :thumbup so they count doors, garage doors, vents, etc. Never seen a hand written note though. 

I would contact your insurance company.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Can't remember the exact verbiage on the form but what it meant in layman's terms was no shutters. 

I had just installed a new Hurricane rated garage door. Thus the reason for the new inspection............New forms since last one. 

But I did get a reduction, still. :thumbsup:


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

You probably got classified under the "N" label then. If an inspector can't verify whether your windows meet a certain classification, then they will use that label. Happens under re-inspections. That is insurance for you.

At least you still got your discount!


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