# Ready to hire 1 employee.



## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

What happens when an off the books Win-Win guy cuts of 3 fingers? 
Is that time for the 30-30-6 workers comp policy, shoot him with a 30-30 and bury him 6 foot deep?

I am being funny of course, but really what if ? Do you just deny he works for you?


----------



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey, NY, no hard feelings, we are just trying to show you what's wrong with that. Too many things to list, but here's just a few -

If that worker is seriously injured, everyone involved is "dead meat"

You are depriving someone of a legitimate job. 

The "employee" is not paying taxes, no workers comp on him, no holiday pay, etc. etc. etc.

You are taking work away from legitimate contractors who are having a hard enough time right now without having to compete with "underground" workers.

In a nutshell, it's illegal. If the applicable authorities catch up to them, it's goodnight.

Keep in mind, today everything is integrated. Gov't taxation, workers comp, business registration, etc. Everything can be checked within MINUTES. All these things are cross referenced. So if one of them finds you, they all find you.

Even what you just posted is now public information.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

My mason, I hope I don't come off as to much of a dic#, but that kind of bs is a big part of what is muddying up the waters for all contractors who are working on the level. 

First, you have every right to express your opinion on this forum, but your opinions are going to be challenged and argued against at times. That's what a forum is. I have had my opinions shot down many times on here, and I have learned a lot from some of the opposing view points. 

Next, I live in Texas, the land of illegal labor. Almost know regulations or rules against it are enforced. I have 5 employees right now, all legal, all on the books. I get my throat cut by people operating with illegals all the time. I'm sick of it, so excuse me for getting pissed about your idea. 

Also a lot of guys down here drawing unemployment and taking 10 an hour cash. That is some bs also. If your on unemployment you should be looking for a gd job and stop leaching off of the public coffers. This business with you guys up north PLANNING on being on unemployment during the winter sounds like a load of sh## too.Framers, masons, foundation guys, ect don't go on unemployment when the rain puts them out for 3 weeks. Sounds like a hazard of the line of work. Maybe yall should get a job sacking grocerys during the winter. Same thing goes for these union boys going on unemployment for 4 months a year.

This country is drowning and you are giving it the finger and a glass of water. Imho. JAW


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Saw co, I believe our labor burden is about 25 percent across the board. Charging double is probably a good idea. You should absolutely make money off of your employees. JAW


----------



## SAW.co (Jan 2, 2011)

I hooked up with state fund today. Its not as bad as I thought, Its $810 a year & I just report how much I work someone quarterly & send adjusted rate, they give me info on how to calculate It was pretty easy $1,000,000.00 in workers comp & I'm good to go.:thumbsup: If I can get on a group rate it gets a little cheaper.


----------



## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

Thats great Saw, hope your employee works out, just remember some people just don't have what it takes no matter how much time we give them.


----------



## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

I run my guys through an employee leasing program. It costs me 1.40 times the payrate. No extra costs at all. They pay for Insurance and FICA, and handle reporting, quarterlies, garnishments, payroll service fees etc. No adjustments to my insurance premiums. and 30 days to pay, so I can get paid before I have to front money.

If they collect unemployment at some point, it will not effect my rates, if they get hurt, it will not effect my W/C rates. If I need to add a guy or two for a short term project, I add them on, then let them go when I am done.

It is worth looking into.


----------



## plaidma1 (Jul 20, 2008)

Two cents regarding off-the-books hiring:

Hiring someone off the books is illegal, yes. Its also immoral and unethical (remember when those words were useful tools of persuasion?); you'll be all the more culpable if you know that the employee is taking unemployment while being paid by you.

And personally, I'll just say THANKS A LOT, PAL. Its MY TAX DOLLARS that are paying his double-dipped unemployment!!!


----------



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Do you have an accountant to check your numbers? Whatever you come up with as far as workers comp. etc. Verify it with your accountant before you hire him. Whenever I try and DIY my accounting, I miss about half the stuff I need, then I get yelled at by my accountant.


----------



## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

SAW.co said:


> I want to hire one employee. But I'm not sure what he will cost me after adding workers comp, unemployment & SSI. is there a formula used for this. If I pay him $20.00 pr hr how much will I need to bill him out at & should I be making a profit on his time as well. I've hired guys in the past but only on a one job at a time basis. My business is starting to grow & I want to do things right.
> Any advise would be appreciated, Thanks...
> p.s. I understand rates are different from state to state I'm just trying to get a feel for it.


Have you looked into the services of a PEO (professional employer organization)? You get the employee and they handle all the headaches of being an employer (FUTA, SUTA, WC, Payroll etc.). Try www.napeo.org. On the rightside of the screen there is a search feature to find a provider near you.


----------



## Gamit (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm also considering hiring a employee but really don't have enough work to keep him busy full time. In my case the guy a want to hire is actually a contractor himself so I could go the rout of paying him as a sub right? This way I 1099 him at the end of the year. Can someone explain how that would be reported on my taxes?


----------



## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

Gamit said:


> I'm also considering hiring a employee but really don't have enough work to keep him busy full time. In my case the guy a want to hire is actually a contractor himself so I could go the rout of paying him as a sub right? This way I 1099 him at the end of the year. Can someone explain how that would be reported on my taxes?


If he is a subcontractor (independent contractor), request a W-9 from him and if you pay him $600 or more within the year, issue a 1099. Your accountant should be able to assist with this, but you need to determine if they are an employee or independent contractor first. 

From the IRS-
Determining Whether the Individuals Providing Services are Employees or Independent Contractors

Before you can determine how to treat payments you make for services, you must first know the business relationship that exists between you and the person performing the services. The person performing the services may be -

An independent contractor
An employee (common-law employee)
A statutory employee
A statutory nonemployee

In determining whether the person providing service is an employee or an independent contractor, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and independence must be considered.
Common Law Rules

Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?

Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.

The keys are to look at the entire relationship, consider the degree or extent of the right to direct and control, and finally, to document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination.

Read more at http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html


----------



## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

ny mason said:


> pay him off the books..
> i dont know if you have someone in mind or not but now adays good help is easy and cheap to find.put an add on cregslist try them out and if they dont work out send him packing.after 30-90 days if he works out then put him on the books.


Hey since you enjoy illegal activities I think you should look into robbing banks, the pay is so much better than just douple dipping unemployment and cash jobs.
I sure as heck hope that you dont use the typical lines that eveyone uses (honest, integrity, etc) because you are clearly are none of those.


----------



## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

carolinahandyma said:


> Have you looked into the services of a PEO (professional employer organization)? You get the employee and they handle all the headaches of being an employer (FUTA, SUTA, WC, Payroll etc.). Try www.napeo.org. On the rightside of the screen there is a search feature to find a provider near you.


I use a PEO as well, and I absolutely love it. I email them hours every 2 weeks and bring them a check and pick up the payroll.


----------



## carolinahandyma (Jan 6, 2006)

RobertCDF said:


> I use a PEO as well, and I absolutely love it. I email them hours every 2 weeks and bring them a check and pick up the payroll.


I wonder why contractors with employees don't utilize PEO services more often.


----------



## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

Charging around double+ is a good estimate around here

As far as cost 1-5 years off your life


----------



## sustainablegc (Mar 22, 2011)

*regional differences in labor laws*

In florida,

it is perfectly legal to hire someone "off the books", if you subcontract them and they are workers compensation covered or exempt. But they cant work for you reguraly. it has to be contract work.
If they are an employee, then you do need to pay workers comp on them, fica, and whatever your state requires.


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

RobertCDF said:


> I use a PEO as well, and I absolutely love it. I email them hours every 2 weeks and bring them a check and pick up the payroll.


I got ya beat with my PEO. I require all my guys to have direct deposit. No payroll to pick up, and with direct debit, they debit my account for the fees. Any guys without direct deposit are issued a debit card and their paycheck is deposited to that.


----------



## sustainablegc (Mar 22, 2011)

what is a PEO. employee leasing service? payroll company like compupay or something?


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Professional Employer Organization. Yes it's employee leasing. A few threads here tonight referring to it.


----------

