# Lime Mortar



## slatteryco (Jun 24, 2008)

We are currently working on an old brick house with a stone foundation in PA. Brick/stone is of course set with a lime mortar. I would like to repoint with a lime mortar but have no experience with such. I got the idea from reading a chapter in a book on masonry by Patrick McAfee several years ago. His contention is that what is built with lime mortar should be repaired/refurbished with same.
Anyone have experience with this...any feedback would be very helpful. I believe that there is a French co. that makes the lime..any US based manufacturer/distributer? Many Thanks.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

I know Patrick McAfee well. He's actually giving a lime workshop in Ashville NC next month as part of The Stone Foundation symposium. Excellent workshop, I highly recommend it.
Search Google for Natural hydraulic lime. That's probably your best bet.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

http://www.limes.us/


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

you can also search this forum. In the few months I've been around we've had quite a few long discussions about it


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> you can also search this forum. In the few months I've been around we've had quite a few long discussions about it


And for starters, just scroll down to "Cathedral Stone Products"'
I think you may find this helpful.

Good luck and welcome,
D.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

lime mortar? whatz that?


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## Diamond D. (Nov 12, 2009)

lukachuki said:


> lime mortar? whatz that?


If I'm not mistaken, I think it is used in margaritas. :w00t:

Cheers,
D.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Do you guys put the lime in the coconut and mix it all together?


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## cdkyle (Jul 12, 2009)

I live in a rather historic town with a lot of brick buildings with lime mortar and have done repairs on many. My experience is that the original lime mortar holds up rather well when not exposed to the weather, or more importantly, water running directly down on it. If water is allowed to run down the wall, it will erode. 

We always mixed the lime and sand ratio at 1:3.

The old rule of thumb is not to use a mortar that is harder than the brick. First question would be what type of brick or stone is there now and how dense or hard are they.

Because of the erosion factor, I normally use at least a little masonry or portland cement to set the mortar.

Then the color match scenario comes into play. Good luck.


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## billybrick (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm in new Orleans and do mostly restoration in the French quarter. The mortar I use is approved by the historic commission here, 9 parts sand, 3 parts lime and 1 part Portland.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

billybrick said:


> I'm in new Orleans and do mostly restoration in the French quarter. The mortar I use is approved by the historic commission here, 9 parts sand, 3 parts lime and 1 part Portland.


I've used that mix, but there's nothing nicer to lay brick in than real lime mortar.


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## usheritagegroup (Aug 27, 2012)

Hello Everyone,

Just a quick intro, I am the director of sales and marketing for US Heritage Group. We are masonry material specialists that analyze and manufacture lime-based building materials including lime mortars for masonry restoration and preservation. I joined your forum as I thought we could add to the conversation here:

There are several different varieties (binders) of lime mortar that are found on old buildings in the US including slaked lime putty, hot-mixed quicklime, natural cement and lime-cement mortars. Getting the mix right is fairly technical and important as pure lime putty mortars, natural cement mortars, and lime cement mortars are not necessarily compatible or interchangeable. In Pennsylvania it really depends on the age of the building and specifier as most buildings were slaked lime putty or hot mixed lime mortar possibly with a small amount of portland added for a quick set in the late 1800s and early 1900s. The Lehigh Valley in PA was the location of the first portland cement factory in the US, starting production in 1872. There was also some natural cement coming out of several locations including Lehigh Valley in the 1800s and early 1900s. This is generally replaced with higher performance materials like natural hydraulic lime unless high density is desirable, as in marine applications.

You should start with a mortar analysis to establish a visual match of high-quality compatible replacement mix or play it safe with a lime putty mortar for brick and natural hydraulic lime mortar for hard stone (and brick below grade) unless the bedding mortar is hard and grey clearly indicating portland cement. Don't assume the surface pointing mortar is original, dig back far enough to eliminate the possiblility of earlier repointing as there were several decades when historic materials were not being used at all, even on historic buildings. The wrong materials will cause serious damage to historic masonry including structural damage that sometimes cannot be seen for many decades.

We're familiar with www.limes.us aka St. Astier which is a brand of natural hydraulic lime mortar better for most old buildings than lime-cement mortars. They sell through distributors. Based on our experience and performance data we work with a natural hydraulic lime that comes from Germany and we import it directly from the manufacturer then blend mortar ourselves to control quality and to be very cost competitive. We analyze, formulate, manufacture, sell and train directly. 

Feel free to contact me if you want any more details or guidance.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*lime*

The North American Continent has some of the richest deposits of natural resources of just about any place on this earth. If history is correct,the first brick was burnt in Jamestown Va. in 1611. There have been hundreds of thousands of masonry buildings build here before the first load of opc landed here in 1871. I'am sure the limes imported from France,U.K.and Germany are fine products. They should be at $50+ for a bag and $90 for a 5gal.pail of putty.

There has been plenty of discussion in this forum regarding lime.Data was presented to show both sides of the coin. I believe this spring we went around on this subject for quite awhile. Information was presented explaining that the introduction of opc should not be less than50% of the lime. The study in 2011 at penn.state proved the viability of the usage of brick dust as a pozzalon,with results that added a hydraulic property to lime mortars.


The part I'AM trying to understand,the many thousands of buildings build here did NOT use imported limes. Why does any one think we should now,other than the fact they import it and sell it. To me,it is just a big smoke screen. As far as lime putty being superior to hydrated lime it is a myth!!!




http://www.lime.org/BLG/Thomson_TypeS.pdf


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## cdkyle (Jul 12, 2009)

fjn said:


> The North American Continent has some of the richest deposits of natural resources of just about any place on this earth. If history is correct,the first brick was burnt in Jamestown Va. in 1611. There have been hundreds of thousands of masonry buildings build here before the first load of opc landed here in 1871. I'am sure the limes imported from France,U.K.and Germany are fine products. They should be at $50+ for a bag and $90 for a 5gal.pail of putty.
> 
> There has been plenty of discussion in this forum regarding lime.Data was presented to show both sides of the coin. I believe this spring we went around on this subject for quite awhile. Information was presented explaining that the introduction of opc should not be less than50% of the lime. The study in 2011 at penn.state proved the viability of the usage of brick dust as a pozzalon,with results that added a hydraulic property to lime mortars.
> 
> ...


I guess I missed that "imported" part of his lesson. What say you makes perfect sense.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*lime*

This also may help dispel the mystque of the super-duper imported limes and the secret mortars "specially blended"in the esoteric back rooms.



http://www.restorationtrades.com/articles/art30.shtml


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

To be fair, they are importing hydraulic limes which are a little different than domestic Type S. I agree though that for 99% of restoration work in the US regular bagged Type S is more than adequate.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*lime*

Yes it is very true,they are talking hydraulic limes however,those same properties can be achieved with a pozzalon or metakolin at a mere fraction of the cost. When i say fraction i mean fraction.A 50lb.bag of metakolin can be had for about $9.00 plus there is not a pre set shelf life.



https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...pg1&zw&sig=AHIEtbRi8ve29n9IMWlAjl9dbfPzt9o-lw


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