# Subs who don't clean up after themselves.



## AbeBarker (Jan 3, 2007)

What in the hell is the psychological reason that so many subs think that their belated job they do doesn't require them to pick up the debris they make when they are done creating masterpiece work?

Really...

I'm curious to hear from those that do this... and I know your on this forum.


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## williefb (Feb 5, 2007)

It's basically a malfunction in the xy chromosome axis directly related to too much sunlight on their mothers prior to giving birth. :w00t:


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## roofwiz74 (Oct 27, 2006)

I sub alot and always work in a manner that where clean-up is done in a matter of minutes.maybe you got some defective subs.


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## Ted W (Jan 7, 2007)

I've worked as a sub on a lot of jobs and have always cleaned up after myself. However, there are some generals who have one or two clean-up guys working full time. Besides doing all the small tasks that is nobody elses job, they clean up after the subs. Occasionally they will even stop me from cleaning up, telling me it's their job. I still feel guilty leaving a mess.

Other generals take the opposite approach - subs don't get paid till their job is completed, which includes cleaning up. It's even included in the contract. If the general has to have one of his own guys clean up after a sub, they deduct a nominal fee from the subs pay. Some subs actually prefer to pay the fee than to spend the time cleaning up.

Different situations call for different policies, but if you expect subs to clean up after themselves and they don't, there is obviously a miscommunication. If you want them to clean up their mess, put it in their contract along with countermeasures if they don't clean up. It should also be stated whether the clean up should be at the end of every day or when the finish their project. 

Hope that helps.


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## wackman (Nov 14, 2005)

I've asked this question before years ago when I was an apprentice and I was cleaning up after the electrician. The electrician said he was willing to clean up after himself but that he charged for his time at the same rates whether he was pullin rope or sweeping and my boss would rather pay his apprentices $16 hr to clean rather than pay sparky $60 for the same thing. Made sense then and I gotta say it still does.


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

What does your subcontract agreement say regarding who is responsible for cleanup? 

While one would think that grown men/women shouldn't have to be told to pick up after themselves, we don't always have the luxury of working with people who think logically. Therefore, you need to spell it out for them. If you don't tell them to do it, it won't get done- sad commentary on the industry we're in, but unfortunately true in many cases.

Bob


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## brownie77 (Jan 3, 2007)

When I was in college I worked for a big builder in my area part time doing clean-up, light carpentry, punch list etc. One of my jobs was to walk through all of the houses at the end of the day and clean up after the subs. One thing I always found is if you kept a house fairly clean the subs would clean up after themselfs. But if I didn't look after a house for a few days it would suddenly genrate a huge mess. I guess the subs dont feel as guilty adding to somebody elses mess.

Nothing worse than a messy plaster. I spent countless hours scraping floors.  .....Made me study a little harder....


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## nadonailer (Nov 15, 2005)

Electricians!


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## ACTRenovator (Jan 1, 2007)

My plasterer thanked me today at work for having the worksite clean. (Duffy). Even though we do it all the time (it's a matter for saftey), I don't hear that compliment very often.


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## Danahy (Oct 17, 2006)

The plumbing company I'm subbing off could use a lesson in clean up. Little staples, and screws on and under their tarps, which'll do wonders for the lady's really nice hardwood floors... But what do I know I'm just the painter.


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

We do not act as subcontractors. I would think it would depend on your agreement with the subcontractor as to what is included in the price.


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## DRMDOUG (Feb 4, 2007)

*A Clean Job Site Is A Safer Job Site*

Nothing else To Be Said


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

On T&M work, I can't seem to win on the cleanup. 50% of people are ticked that you're sweeping up and charging electrician rates for it, and 50% of the people are ticked that you didn't sweep up. I generally ask on T&M work whether they want me to clean up or not. Often, other conditions make it obvious what I'm to do. 

On bid work, it all boils down to the contract. Sometimes, cleanup is left purposely off the bid to keep the price down. Some builders have a guy that comes at the end of the day who's only job is to clean up the jobsite. A guys who's ticked off about lack of jobsite cleanup needs to examine the contract he's signed, then rethink who's to blame.


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## AbeBarker (Jan 3, 2007)

I hear all of you and respect most of what you say. The fact that everything comes down to the contract is annoying, but I guess neccesary. I am green.

I was brought up working old school ethics and antics, I will wake up and smell the coffee and concentrate more on how I word my contracts and less on what I feel is the right thing to do.

boo hoo


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

AbeBarker said:


> I was brought up working old school ethics and antics, I will wake up and smell the coffee and concentrate more on how I word my contracts and less on what I feel is the right thing to do.


Yes. After all, you're a *contract*or.

While you're at it, examine how your contract addresses removal of debris from the premesis, and what to do with any paperwork or instructions that come with installed material and equipment.


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## wackman (Nov 14, 2005)

Some of our subs just automatically clean up after themselves, the drywallers come to mind, and most will pile it up but it makes more sense for us to have the subs focusing on doing their trade and getting the hell out of there so the next guy can get his done. Time is money. That makes their price go down and gives them more time to focus on their work. I'll have a laborer clean up at $11 hr.


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## ApgarNJ (Apr 16, 2006)

most of my subs clean up after themselves. i always keep my jobsites clean, inside and outside, there is a dumpster usually on site and a jobsite broom and dust pan, i don't pay my subs by the hour, i pay them by the job, so i demand that they clean up themselves. they get there, and it's cleaned, when they leave, it better be clean. 
the one thing my electrician does that pisses me off, is when he's coming to final, and is installing receptacles or switches, leaving random pieces of cut wires behind underneath each switch or recept.
the plumbers usually push all there crap into one big pile of the room or basement, and I end up scooping it up when they are done.
i'm very anal about jobsite cleanliness, i don't like stepping over things and constantly tracking debris through a jobsite. some guys are just slobs on how they keep their sites. my helper, who's having a house built up in the poconoes of PA, his builder kept that place like a slob. the whole outside of the property just had empty plastic bottles and wrappers and scraps of all different materials all over the place, the inside wasn't much better. he eventually cleaned it all up towards the end but the point is, why make such a huge mess to do at the end when you can clean it up during the job on a daily or weekly basis and never let it get that bad. i'd rather take 10 minutes at the end of the day to clean things up right, than a full day or more at the end to clean up a huge mess.


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## Cat_painter (Feb 22, 2007)

I say if YOU make the mess YOU clean it up. If you do that bet you won't be as messy.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

"i don't pay my subs by the hour, i pay them by the job"

That is the bottom line, and if you can't keep your chit cleaned up and do the job at your price, don't bid it.

You make the mess, you clean it, and YOU hire a laborer to clean up your own mess if you don't want your high dollar skilled workers sweeping.

Contract terms usually deal with what to do with debris, not who cleans it up. i.e. it is usually the GC's responsability to provide a dumpster and it is the sub's job to get his trash into said dumpster.

My father was a pretty easy going guy, but there were never soda bottles or lunch trash on site, much less the debris from subs. Keep it clean or hit the road was his strictly enforced policy, and I learned everything I know from him.


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## nadonailer (Nov 15, 2005)

Yeah - There is NO excuse for not cleaning up your own mess. Period. None. I don't care what the contract says. It's common decency.


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