# Is Better Business Bureau A Rip Off



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

shakey0818 said:


> I dont remember too well it was a long long time ago.I think they may have threatened me with a bad rating on their site.


Heck, if it weren't for a few years around the block I would have been nervous too. The BBB has a pretty scary sounding handle, and I think at one point years ago it was a bit more than a lead generation site.

People in general still believe this is a protection agency of some sort rather than what it really is.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

My grade is an A- because I didnt pay them extra... They called me one day:

BBB: We'd like to give you the opportunity to become fully accredited and that will cost an extra one time fee of $400+

Me: ...but when I signed up 2 years ago, you gave me stickers saying that I'm an accredited business...?

BBB: Well yes, but you become fully accredited when you pay extra.

Me: Should I take the sticker off my truck and mail it back?

BBB: No because you're accredited. 

Me: oh, ok.. then I'm not paying extra.

BBB: you won't get an A+

Me: oh, ok...


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

I guess every State is different. I never hear from them unless there is an issue. Been listed on theirs site for 5 years (I thought it was 3), each year I send them $300 and end of story.

Other than getting customers and a few nice jobs from them, the only time I heard from theirs representative, is when I was taking my customer to court because he refused to release the deposit to me. 
They send me a letter saying so and so filed a complaint against my company, this what they said and asked me provided a reply.
I said that the lawsuit already been filed against them and there is already a court date set to resolve this matter... They said thank you and they closed theirs complaint and that was the end of it.

On the general note, BBB always benefited my business or I wouldn't be paying for it. Period.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Aside from their newly accredited Angies List antics... they are a beneficial tool. I've done some work for people that were screwed over by hacks and they do check the BBB... since the 2nd time around they actually do some research.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Tech Dawg said:


> Aside from their newly accredited Angies List antics... they are a beneficial tool. I've done some work for people that were screwed over by hacks and they do check the BBB... since the 2nd time around they actually do some research.


Angie's List is accredited by BBB Business HERE is theirs listing and they're A+ rating even with 200 some complains, but they all been resolved. The reason they need BBB, because people will go to BBB before they use any site to check if it's good or not...So if there is an issue and it was resolved, people will still go there. I been there 5 years and not a single complaint, this why people came to me and trusted me to do the work... It's just the way it is Bro.


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Im not arguing but I do think its ridiculous that the BBB feels the need to charge for a grade that should be earned.
My cross refernce to AL is that I can pay to be at the top of the list but I don't. 

In the end, I'd rather have to rely on the BBB since AL fluently operates in the red.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

On the general note call it as you see it fit... But it's a choice you make to pay for it or not and you should read History of it... Here is a little history from Wikipedia.com, just incase you haven't read about it. 

The Better Business Bureau (BBB), founded in 1912, is a nonprofit organization focused on advancing marketplace trust, consisting of 113 independently incorporated local BBB organizations in the United States and Canada, coordinated under the Council of Better Business Bureaus (CBBB) in Washington, D.C.

The BBB collects and provides free business reliability reviews on more than 4 million businesses to over 100 million requests from consumers in 2012, helping make the BBB's website rank among the top 500 most-visited websites in the United States. The BBB serves as an intermediary between consumers and businesses, handling nearly 1 million consumer disputes against businesses in 2012. The BBB also alerts the public to scams, reviews advertising, and assists when donating to charity.

_Nearly 400,000 local businesses in North America support the BBB. The BBB invites successfully vetted businesses to become dues-paying Accredited Businesses that pledge and continue to adhere to the BBB Code of Business Practices In return, the BBB allows Accredited Businesses to use its logo and dispute resolution services._
Although it has "bureau" in its name, the Better Business Bureau is not affiliated with any governmental agency. 
*Businesses that affiliate with the BBB and adhere to its standards do so through industry self-regulation. To avoid bias, the BBB's policy is to refrain from recommending or endorsing any specific business, product or service.*

_The organization has been the subject of controversy, particularly related to its practice of giving higher ratings to businesses that pay a membership fee. In addition, the organization has been accused of requesting fees from consumers in excess of the amount consumers are attempting to retrieve. The BBB disputes the claim that payment from businesses is required for them to receive an "A" rating_


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## Bearded Wonder (Jan 21, 2011)

This from the same Wikipedia page, and is much more in line with everything I've ever heard about them. If you're paying them, how can they really be objective in rating you? I know that some people put stock in the rating, so there could be some benefit from using it, but I refuse to get involved in such a racket. 

Criticism:
In 2010 ABC's 20/20 reported in a segment titled "The Best Ratings Money Can Buy" about the irregularities in BBB ratings.[25] They reported that a man created two dummy companies which received A+ ratings as soon as he had paid the membership fee. They also reported that business owners were told that the only way to improve their rating was by paying the fee. In one case a C was turned to an A immediately after a payment and in another case a C‑minus became an A+. Chef Wolfgang Puck said that some of his businesses receive F's because he refuses to pay a fee. Ritz Carlton, which does not belong either, also receives Fs for not responding to its complaints.[24]

In response, the president of the Council of Better Business Bureaus has stated the BBB ratings system will cease awarding points to businesses for being BBB members.[26] The national BBB's executive committee voted to address the public’s perception of the ratings system. It voted that the BBB ratings system would no longer give additional points to businesses because they are accredited. It voted to implement a system to handle complaints about BBB sales practices. [27] Despite the vote, the BBB website still states that points are taken away if accreditation is lost.[28][29]

In Canada, the CBC News reported in 2010 that Canadian BBBs were downgrading the ratings scores of businesses who stopped paying their dues. For example, a moving business who had an A rating and had been a BBB member for 20 years, dropped to a D‑minus rating when they allegedly no longer wanted to pay dues.[30]

BBBs have been accused of unduly protecting companies. If a branch does not act reasonably on behalf of a consumer, a complaint may be filed with the Federal Trade Commission. However, recent reports have suggested that the Austin chapter of the Better Business Bureau refused to resolve complaints against companies if customers do not pay a $70 mediation fee.[31]

Criticism on case resolutions
It has been reported that the BBB encourages and solicits money from the very businesses they monitor, which again, raises the question of neutrality.[32] The BBB states that they hold their Accredited businesses to a higher standard, as outlined in their Accreditation standards.[33]

On December 22, 2010, William Mitchell, CEO of the Los Angeles BBB, and originator of the BBB Letter Grading System, resigned as a result of an internal investigation conducted by the CBBB.[9][34]

Shortly after the resignation was rescinded. Mitchel claimed that his health led him to initially resign and criticized the Nation Council for attempting to take over the Southern California chapter.[35]


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## RhodesHardwood (Jun 28, 2010)

We get an email every time someone views our profile on the BBB's website and it seems to be about 2X per week.. So people are looking at it.. However, we have been members for about 4-5 years and just pulled our first job that was directly through the customer contacting us through the BBB's website.. Overall I think it's worth the small yearly fee.


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

RhodesHardwood said:


> We get an email every time someone views our profile on the BBB's website and it seems to be about 2X per week.. So people are looking at it.. However, we have been members for about 4-5 years and just pulled our first job that was directly through the customer contacting us through the BBB's website.. Overall I think it's worth the small yearly fee.



another way of looking at the situation you just outlined- is that you paid $1500 for that lead ( $300/year x 5 years )
Stephen


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

here is what I know about the BBB.

About 7 years ago we did a roof for a good customer.- we had previously roofed her home and some years later the customer had a tri-plex in need of a new roof........

so- while roofing the triplex one day- one of the tenants came out and struck up a conversation with me.
the tenant recognized my company name because she was a FORMER BBB employee and I had been a BBB member at that time.

The tenant described to me in some detail precisely how the BBB operates- it's basically a classic boiler room operation with all the ethical shortcoming implicit in that business model

and- those "neutral" BBB reps-are actually commissioned salesmen.

so- the BBB actually engages in the very practices it claims to protect consumers from.

Prior to that conversation- I had already dropped my membership because it was $300/year AND the BBB was not fullfilling its' own promises to me.

As a dues paying member, I would request various pieces of promotional Lit.- the BBB would say " we are out of stock, but we will get those right to you as soon as they come in"-yet somehow I never was able to get the LIT. the BBB would promise.

the final straw was- the 3rd year we were a member----- I caught the BBB sales rep in a blatant lie regaurding a statement he had made to me 3 years previously when he "sold" me my initial membership.

Also- regaurding "Angies List"- it's another un-ethical org. Years ago-when they expanded out of the Columbus, Ohio area into the Akron market- their "pre-screened" contractors in Akron were selected by opening the yellow pages and cold calling contractors.

I know this, because I was one of those contractors.

Some pre-screening process, huh?
stephen


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Tech Dawg said:


> Im not arguing but I do think its ridiculous that the BBB feels the need to charge for a grade that should be earned.
> My cross refernce to AL is that I can pay to be at the top of the list but I don't.
> 
> In the end, I'd rather have to rely on the BBB since AL fluently operates in the red.


Todd,

Take a look at everything else, we pay through our ass for everything and anything no matter what we do. Google charges per click and other things... the more you pay the closer to the top you will pop.
Angie's list the same thing, you want exposure you have to pay, not to mention any company can have a s*^t load of good reviews and do ****ty work... it happens all the time.
Yellow pages, you want exposure, you be paying monthly like a mortgage and every-other place new or under a new name where contractors run and dump money thinking the business will be booming now... We see this all the time in here, and then they cry they suck or this and that...

All of this is inevitable...

My experience with BBB been nothing but good. In 5 years I got 2 jobs totaling 100k, a few smaller jobs and quiet a few prospects for 300 a year. If I have to wait another 5 years for a job, who cares.
Not to mention that is one place I am listed on, not to mention Trex, Azek, TimberTeck and other decking sites as a Certify installer... 

Take Trex site for instance...same thing, you want to be on the top and you want to have a nice company logo next to you, go ahead and sell 50 or 100k of trex a year to become a Gold Member or what ever they call it... Same s^*t my friend, if its not a rating its something else... but you gonna pay if you wanna be there.

So the $300 I spend on this, I don't feel it and its a nice logo on my web-page for the benefit of my business (so far its been that). I waste more money on all kinds of other junk for Christ sake needed or not, so to me this is nothing more than a business expense.


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

I have not always been on the opposite side of the BBB fence. I too was proud and naive of their logo on my website but it is a scam and now that I know it I have no problem informing any customer who thinks its an absolute sign of good contractor, or bad contractor and when potential customers hear the true facts they too loose their trust. The national broadcast was seen by many more people than you think. 


Trust is an overused, inaccurate perception in this business, nobody wants to consider themselves a "hack".


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Roofcheck said:


> I have not always been on the opposite side of the BBB fence. I too was proud and naive of their logo on my website but it is a scam and now that I know it I have no problem informing any customer who thinks its an absolute sign of good contractor, or bad contractor and when potential customers hear the true facts they too loose their trust. The national broadcast was seen by many more people than you think.
> 
> 
> Trust is an overused, inaccurate perception in this business, nobody wants to consider themselves a "hack".



First of all, the logo has nothing to do with it. I don't ask them for anything and I don't expect anything from them and I can drop them any day of the week.

I got a call from them 5 years ago and I guess $300 was burning a hole in my pocket so I signed up. They simply asked me if I would like to join and I said yes, they send me the paper and I send a check.

Since that time I heard from them one time, when I was taking my customer and they filed a complaint as previously stated...Other than sending me the renewal notices once a year, I forget they exist until this post, because my wife sends them a check and once in a blue moon I get a fax with some scam in the area. Period.

I personally don't see any Rip-Off tactics that you claim. I don't know your definition of a Rip-off, unless it became one when someone filed a complaint against you. Or maybe they used a different sales pitch with you than they did with me and nailed you for more money or promised you some customers I don't know...

So far I heard nothing not from you or anybody else who swear them being a rip-off, other then asking more money to give you a better rating or what ever else, but that any business does.
I had my kid in karate school when he was 4 and each time he got a stripe on his belt it cost me $100 and by the time he got 3 stripes, he didn't know anything more than when he first came there.

So what is the scam or Rip-Off everyone is talking about?


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Stephen H said:


> another way of looking at the situation you just outlined- is that you paid $1500 for that lead ( $300/year x 5 years )
> Stephen


The way I look at it my friend... I invested $1,500 to make 100,000k in 5 years, that's 20k a year... 
Please remind me how much you get on your $1,500 by having money in the bank? What is your current interest rate in the bank today?

Not to mention that extra 20k - 1,500k= $18,500k/year is a nice vacation, not to mention I can take a winter off every year... So I think you be better off looking at my situation from your point of view, but maybe maybe you should start looking at it from my point of view...

In addition, the roofer he is so quick to thank you... but I'm sure he can use an extra 18k a year over a period of 5 years, especially during winter times when he is on the roof freezing his OO... and that is if he has a roof to climb on.


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

it costs me $450 a year to be an BBB member

ive gotten ONE job in 4 years because someone searched the BBB for a plumber

people DO research my business on the BBB...I know this for sure

belonging to these organizations is just part of being a professional business...I also belong to 2 builder associations.....total I pay $1,500 a year just to belong...I don't pay it, my customers do!....I just add it onto what I charge per hour

the problem I have with the BBB is they don't have an arbitrator that can make decisions....someone complains, no matter how crazy it is and its a complaint...I don't think you even need to be a customer...your competition could complain about you and pretend to be a customer....there's no way to get rid of any complaint....ive only gotten 1 complaint and she was very unreasonable....it should have been thrown out...but they wont...there on no ones side....someone complains it gets posted


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## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

greg24k said:


> Todd,
> 
> Take a look at everything else, we pay through our ass for everything and anything no matter what we do. Google charges per click and other things... the more you pay the closer to the top you will pop.
> Angie's list the same thing, you want exposure you have to pay, not to mention any company can have a s*^t load of good reviews and do ****ty work... it happens all the time.
> ...


Greg,

I 100% agree with your point but everything you state is the reason why I didnt cough up any cash...

Their approach sucks and they didnt offer any additional info/perks/incentive to do so (other than an A+) (I got alot of A+'s in school... look where im at :laughing: ). We all live the life of sales, so in my mind.. I need reasons. Had you been the guy calling me, I would've been compelled to move forward


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

greg24k said:


> The way I look at it my friend... I invested $1,500 to make 100,000k in 5 years, that's 20k a year...
> Please remind me how much you get on your $1,500 by having money in the bank? What is your current interest rate in the bank today?
> 
> Not to mention that extra 20k - 1,500k= $18,500k/year is a nice vacation, not to mention I can take a winter off every year... So I think you be better off looking at my situation from your point of view, but maybe maybe you should start looking at it from my point of view...
> ...


 Greg- the quote of mine you are using-was originally posted in reference to info that Rhodeshardwood provided. It's a commentary on HIS info.

you have pulled it out of context-and then after the fact added your own info- info not relevant to the purpose of the original quote.

YOUR situation might be different---- YOU might be getting those results from the $300 yearly fee-if so it might be a good deal--- for you.

but the info that rhodeshardwoods related seemed to state that $1500 over 5 years yielded one job. To me- that wouldn't be worth it.

He can decide for himself if its worth it to him


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

You all are losing me on this. 1 job from this, no jobs from that....I can promise you that if you have these logos on your website that the conversion % will increase. 

It isnt even debatable its a proven fact.

Next we will be back with the logo on the trucks or how little to spend on business cards....


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## Roofcheck (Dec 27, 2011)

I agree with you JMB and Greg it can't hurt. People do respond well to the BBB no matter how corrupt it may or may not be. I also believe many people think it is a Government entity and or a cure all to disagreements and it is not.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Very interesting thread from the dead.

BBB called me today and for only $50 a month they could accredit my one-man show.

When she asked for payment information, I told her that 1) I get plenty of work from referrals and 2) I don't make impulse decisions. A quick search here verified my suspicion.

How much does it cost some of you guys with employees?


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Man, don't get me started . #1, you give them money, they make you appear more legit . #2 , they are simply a non profit , tax wise, like a church , and people make a lot of money there. They sell fear. They threaten good, hardworking business owner s with bad ratings over situations they know nothing about . #3, you live by the sword, you die but it . unscrupulous customers will threaten to give you a bad rating for not doing things you weren't hired or paid to do. My opinion : its a crock. And this is not out of anger ....my companies reputation is unreal , to the point customers leave us blank, signed checks at times . The BBB is wrong to do what it does . They need to expose scammers, etc, sure. But they have no business being involved in contract issues .


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## OakRoadLLC (Oct 18, 2014)

I gotta agree with most everybody on here. I got a letter in the mail from them (the questionnaire I guess it was) which in itself was a little threatening. I sent it back just because. The rep calls me today and gives me the whole speech of how "I'm eligible for accreditation because I have a great track record blah blah blah". First of all, the BBB has no idea what kind of track record I have or even what kind of work that I performed prior to me answering some questions. The information I sent in on the questionnaire was far from enough for them to make an informed decision. I told the rep I would call them back later when they started asking for money. My company still appears on their website, it just says that I haven't submitted enough information for accreditation. I doubt that I'll follow through with it. I don't see it generating over $500 in leads this year for me in a small town.


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## tkrrox (May 15, 2010)

how about dissputes, mitigation, and arbitration? Do they really help with those things in an efficient manner?


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