# Hourly Rate.



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I was looking through some recents ads posted on craigslist and other job forums and it seems like they all offer really low wages. Most of them are 15 dollars an hour straight, meaning no piece work pay scale. Maybe my pay scale is a little too high, but since I have found good help, I like to pay them what the deserve.

Although its a personal business question, I am wondering what you guys are paying your employees. Is it straight hourly, straight piece work, a mixture of both?

I do both hourly and piece work. First time laborers I start at 12 until I get a sense of how hard the work and how comfortable they are doing things and then the pay scale increases from there. Then once they know enough to be able to completly tear off and prep/felt a side properly, I bump them up until 15 and keep them awhile until they can be left alone to shingle and will have no questions. Then I pay piece work starting at 18 a sq and it progresses based on pitch and shingle type up to 30 a sq.

Since I do siding, the hourly rate does make a big difference. Once a guy can be left alone to do all the services I offer, I pay them 18 hourly but I need to feel comfortable leaving them alone all day. The highest paid guy is at 24 hourly, but I can basically give him an address and all will be well.


Do you guys think my pay scale is to high/low/fair? I am trying to revamp and change a few things that I think need some attention.


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

Yours is right in there with mine Bam. If they know absolutely nothing they start at 12. My "journeyman" max at 25 and foreman gets 3/hr additional. Don't do much piecework anymore, mostly commercial crews. I've found you treat your good employees right and hang on to them, you do much better than the penny-pinching tightwads who think they make more by paying less. 

We also have a good mix of prevailing wage jobs to help keep them happy. $32+ per hour for the most part aroud here.


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## roofny (Mar 18, 2010)

I am similar in pay also. I pay per hour, as most is tear-offs. I am starting some new construction but I believe I am still going to do per hour.

A non-committed bonus once in a while to those who stand out is better in my book.


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Bam,

IMO if you can make money paying them at those rates and they are good workers(on-time, dependable, quality concious, don't steal, ect) then you are good. Who cares what other outfits are offering?


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

I always paid per piece, I tried hourly for a minute but my top guys didn't like it so we went back to piece work.

In my area, if your providing benefits your a bit high,
if no benefits than your a bit low.


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## mnjconstruction (Oct 5, 2008)

i wish I could pay my guys that much. up here in northern maine my pay goes from 9 and up. my foreman makes 18. most good carpenters are around 12-14. But im only charging 32 an hour. its funny how big of a difference there is in pay from area to area. But it all equals out i suppose. bet you guys cant buy a nice house for 50k!!!


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## jeffatsquan (Mar 16, 2009)

Its said around these parts that two years wages of a good carpenter should equal the cost of a basic average house in this local

Has been that way since this area was first settled.


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## Cyle (Mar 3, 2010)

jeffatsquan said:


> Its said around these parts that two years wages of a good carpenter should equal the cost of a basic average house in this local
> 
> Has been that way since this area was first settled.


Wow I wish it happened there. Maybe 160k for a carpenter wage here for 2 years, can't buy a decent house for less then 300k.

The pay is definatly going to vary based on location a lot.


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

In residential, piecework is the only way to go in my opinion. Easiest way to bid the job and know where you stand on it. Like I said above, we just don't do a lot of resi anymore. 

I kinda envy you there MNJ. Around here you can't buy a decent piece of dirt for 50k much less have a building on it. Can't complain though, bought our house 7 years ago for 109k, neighbor just sold his last month for 325K and ours is considerably nicer and larger.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I was looking through some recents ads posted on craigslist and other job forums and it seems like they all offer really low wages. Most of them are 15 dollars an hour straight, meaning no piece work pay scale. Maybe my pay scale is a little too high, but since I have found good help, I like to pay them what the deserve.
> 
> Although its a personal business question, I am wondering what you guys are paying your employees. Is it straight hourly, straight piece work, a mixture of both?
> 
> ...


I think a good mechanic should take home at least $1000. for a 40 week. 
I'd happily pay a good roofer that if I could find one. 

That means, he shows up on time, takes care of my gear like it's his, 
goes to the job, knocks out a reasonable amount for the day, 
runs the job right and makes the customer happy. 

That to me is well worth it. 

But too many people will drop a dollar to run and go pick up a penny 
and want to pay as little as possible not having the slightest idea 
that a great roofer will save you money by getting the job done
in the most efficient and professional manner.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Oh yeah, pay is relative to region. 

In some places, $800. will give you a very comfortable life, while in other places, $800. will barely get one by.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Slyfox said:


> I always paid per piece, I tried hourly for a minute but my top guys didn't like it so we went back to piece work.
> 
> In my area, if your providing benefits your a bit high,
> if no benefits than your a bit low.


Piece work rocks. :thumbup:

I think everybody wins like that provided that the quality is there. 

I was taking home $300./day easily (@ $25./sq).
I was knocking jobs out for this GC.
I made him look real good. 

I saved him from getting sued by on homeowner who was furious 
with him for taking a deposit and not starting for 3 months. 
I swooped in, calmed the H.O. down and did the roof. 
He not only was happy with how the roof came out, 
but ended up giving the GC MORE work based on my work there. 

So what do I get for that? Turned around...the GC got jealous because the customers would ask for me 
and would want my opinion on any of the decisions being made on the house (changes, alterations, etc...). 
Once the GC found out I got a $1,000. tip, he lost it. 

He wanted to knock down my pay of all things saying I was earning too much. Unbelievable. 
I earn the guy 5 grand clean in a week after he paid me and he thought I was earning too much. 

What's a good guy worth? 

I'd say that a percentage of what he produces is more than fair. 
Not quantity over quality, but quality over quantity and the rest will take care of itself.
Let's face it boys...shingles aren't <$20./sq anymore. Gas is up. Food, rent, utilities all up. 

A good man needs to live "right" (i.e. comfortably). 
Someone who produces for you shouldn't have to struggle himself. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## roofny (Mar 18, 2010)

Piece work or per square on tear-offs is a bad idea in my opinion. Most roofers don't understand the hit you take sometimes to do the job right. Pay by piece and see how many corners start getting cut. Broken bushes, rotted plywood, the drip edge stays on, and so on. They will love it when they make more than per hour. But the first job that they will make less because you run into a problem, and the final product will show.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Right now running just three installers all with roofing liability and my brothers with workmans comp, llc's (my pop don't need to stinking comp when working for me!!!). Legal subs by all standards.

At any rate these prices are for tearing off, papering, shingling.
Poppy, $50 (only been roofing for 39 years) 2-3sq per hour all day long 5-6 days a week
Little brother (Yahme) $45 (10 years) 2-3sq per hour
Big brother (Stanley) $25 (15 years) 2-3sq per hour but he gets paid less because his attitude, and because he squanders his moneys so bad, non home owner.
Keep in mind for the past 4 years been busy with mainly insurance work at $350-500 a sq.

For new stuff poppy and yahme are at $38 and stanley gets $22
For carpenty work and siding poppy and yahme are at $32 and stanly gets $20.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

If I was Stanley, I would tell you to screw yourself.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

dougger222 said:


> Right now running just three installers all with roofing liability and my brothers with workmans comp, llc's (my pop don't need to stinking comp when working for me!!!). Legal subs by all standards.
> 
> At any rate these prices are for tearing off, papering, shingling.
> Poppy, $50 (only been roofing for 39 years) 2-3sq per hour all day long 5-6 days a week
> ...


The reaons? Cuz it's none of your business if they squander their money, don't own a home (and may never with you writing the paycheck), etc.

That's some asinine ****. Why you discriminating against your other brother? For real? Is he black?


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## kubie (Oct 19, 2008)

dougger222 said:


> Right now running just three installers all with roofing liability and my brothers with workmans comp, llc's (my pop don't need to stinking comp when working for me!!!). Legal subs by all standards.
> 
> At any rate these prices are for tearing off, papering, shingling.
> Poppy, $50 (only been roofing for 39 years) 2-3sq per hour all day long 5-6 days a week
> ...


is that price per sq or per hr?


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

roofny said:


> Piece work or per square on tear-offs is a bad idea in my opinion. Most roofers don't understand the hit you take sometimes to do the job right. Pay by piece and see how many corners start getting cut. Broken bushes, rotted plywood, the drip edge stays on, and so on. They will love it when they make more than per hour. But the first job that they will make less because you run into a problem, and the final product will show.


Then those roofers shouldn't be on one's roof period.

Maybe piece work turns out to be a good way to weed out those 
unscrupulous workers that would bite the hand that feeds them.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

dougger222 said:


> Right now running just three installers all with roofing liability and my brothers with workmans comp, llc's (my pop don't need to stinking comp when working for me!!!). Legal subs by all standards.
> 
> At any rate these prices are for tearing off, papering, shingling.
> Poppy, $50 (only been roofing for 39 years) 2-3sq per hour all day long 5-6 days a week
> ...


When it's a family job, Pop gets $300. for the day 
(doesn't have to lift a finger, but I can't keep him still).

Brothers get $200./day.

And, we all attack that roof having most of it done by lunch, 
get some brews and either a couple of pizzas or subs,
then take the rest of the day easy B.S.ing.

My favorite times are when I work with my Dad & Brothers.


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## 2ndGen (Apr 6, 2006)

Double post...


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Sounds like some of you are doing weekend warrior work. Get buddies or family together to wipe out a job, but on a daily basis. Good for you, I guess. I'm just jealous I don't have any good, cheap help.

Roofing scale right now is around $60/hour in MN. That is to pay all taxes, ins., and comp. Most can't afford $60/hour on work up here. That's why there are so many using loop holes that are legal and some not so legal.

Some of the "sub contractor" rules are kinda.......well, BS for lack of a better word. Things like, all subs must supply all materials and labor and be responsible for the entire job. Things like this just aren't enforced.

LLC is just an entity. I see a big setup by our "higher authority" for big tax stings in the near future.


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

$60.00 per man is quite a bit higher than here but I know what your talking about.
WC, Liability, Unemployment insurances,
payroll taxes like matching each employees SS with held and still paying double SS on my own income, etc.
This is the main reason I am never the low bid, not always the highest but never the lowest.

A legal sub crew, they need to have WC and Liability and sign a waiver stating all their workers are covered by said insurances,
that's it in the state of Ohio.

I have used subs many times, but payroll employees always get work first.


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## GAK (Apr 22, 2005)

Currently paying foreman $35.50.
One guy at $32.
One at $30.
and low man on totem pole $17.
I pay hourly on all jobs.
I'm paying W/C and health insurance.
I am fortunate to be in a good market and am able to charge a decent rate.
I know that I probably pay better than any other non-union company around.
But this is how I have been able to find good workers and keep them.


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