# Ok Pros, Make the call!



## SedoHomes (Apr 4, 2008)

Here's the deal, we're a new homes company, three years running. The boss just bought us our first Real warehouse/garage area. Finally we can set up shop to stain our cabinets, and paint our casing/baseboard. Give me your opinion on the following:

-Using those curtains that come on racking to enclose my paint area.
-For ventilation, can I just put a industrial fan/vent in an exterior wall? I'm mostly doing latex paint on casing and baseboard, and also staining and clearcoating cabinet faces & doors.
-So yeah, latex on casing and baseboard, oil stains and clearcoats, sometimes waterborne clearcoats on cabinetry. My spraygun use is limited in experience, as in, Idon't even know the make of the gun I used to use, THUS! Pick out a gun for me, or guns, and whatever else I need. Yes, we do intend to do this for a while, so high end professional is what I'm looking for. We are also getting a new compressor for the shop.
-What don't I know that I absolutely need?

Many thanks to all of you, I read stuff on this site all the time, I just logged in today though. Thanks again
Dave


----------



## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't do much new work, so I can't really help ya.

If I was going to spray much latex, I'd prefer having an airless though.

(I'm really just trying to work on my post count)


----------



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

SedoHomes said:


> ....high end professional is what I'm looking for.
> ...-What don't I know that I absolutely need?


You need about a year as an apprentice in a high-end cabinet re-finisher's shop


----------



## SedoHomes (Apr 4, 2008)

*Are you sure you're not a wisdom/biscuit dispenser?*

See? That's why I asked! Unfortunately I can't do that, but I am spending time at the stainshop where we get some of our work done now, in hopes of picking up some tips. Thanks for the heads up and ego check. :clap:


----------



## MVH (Jun 24, 2007)

Once you set up shop, you become a stationary target and may have some environmental issues to deal with. You may need to keep a log of all paints, stains, and solvents used for VOC tracking at the very least.

Mike


----------



## SedoHomes (Apr 4, 2008)

Good call, I didn't think about that aspect. I guess we're going with a Graco FinishPro 390 to start....anyone know anything about them, good/bad?


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 7, 2006)

The finishpro is a good system. If I were you, I wouldn't set that up as my only rig though.

You'll generally be better off using a different rig for each solvent. Mixing solvents is generally a bad idea.

First thing I'd set up a 2hp (at least) spray booth. Grizzly makes a reasonably priced 2200 cfm one you can get through their site or amazon. 

Then, you'll need at least two rigs. I'd run an airless for latex. The Graco 395 is a good little rig that will last a long time as a dedicated latex rig. It's got a manifold filter, good pressure switch and the new 'endurance pump' will save your butt in bad times. 

Another 395, or a 390, which is what we use, will do your laquers and stains very well. I'd really recommend a whip hose on each of these rigs, at least 5' long. 

For darker stains, the easiest way is to run an HVLP conversion gun, or an HVLP. The Graco 4900 Procomp is a good setup and worth the money. It will do everything you'll ever ask of it. Easy to clean, and will handle specialty finishes and make tinting your stain easy.


----------



## MALCO.New.York (Feb 27, 2008)

Any spark-resistant fan unit will suffice. 6000 cfm is optimum (depending on booth size).


----------



## SedoHomes (Apr 4, 2008)

:thumbup:Awesome tips guys.....here's what's happened so far: We already had a Wagner 770 airless but it's kinda shot. So, we picked up the Graco 395 and bought two separate contractor guns with rac x tips and hose setups, so we can keep one strictly for latex, and the other for our clear coats. (I think I'll keep on wiping the stain on while I get used to the new gun's behaviour with paint and with clear coat first.) I spoke with a few painting contractors, and they're telling me I can use this setup mobile to clear coat steps, so I'm pretty pumped.
So right now, I think I'm ready to go for the next couple years, as far as running latex and clear coat both through the same Graco, I should be ok, right? I mean, with proper maintenance and cleaning for the machine. Having the two guns so I'm not switching tips all the time ought to help to, I imagine.
Lastly, as far as environmental impact goes, I will be keeping a log for that reason, and also just to kinda monitor our new little shop for financial efficiency and what not.
My new question is this ICI commercial cabinet lacquer I'm being told is the thing to use when clear coating the steps....anybody know what I'm talking about? The Sales rep is telling me the lacquer goes on pretty quick, dries within 45 minutes AND ready to sand, so that I can finish a staircase in a day. THOUGHTS?


----------



## SedoHomes (Apr 4, 2008)

My new buddy/guru/pro Steve Jones from Jones painting suggests I use a strictly latex setup on one machine, and then another for the stain/clear coating. I really like that idea, so I'm going to try and revive the Wagner for the latex. Wish me luck, and thanks Steve!
:thumbsup:


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 7, 2006)

Congrats on the 395. It's a good little rig. Smart to change the hose out on your old wagner too. 

I'd ask your salesman who makes the laquer. If it's actually an ICI product, I'd stay away from it. If it's made by Valspar or Gemini, you're good to go. The Valspar 1800 sealer is pretty good. I don't like their regular topcoats though. Gemini makes a better system, Ultra Solids, if you have to use regular laquers. Consider stepping up to the Valspar pre-cat if you can find it. It requires a vynil sealer and Valspar's is ok. The SW vynil sealer is better, but only because you can cut its drying time in half by catalyzing it. 

The pre-cat will run you out of the shop, but it rocks. Dries fast enough to stack trim face to face in four hours, cures completely in about three days. Cost is close to 60% higher than regular laquers, but the precat is non-yellowing, chemical, scuff, and water resistant. It's a much better finish than regular laquers. If you can't find the Valspar line, I'd go Sherwin Williams CAB Acrylic. It's close to 2x the cost of regular laquers, but much more durable, with close to the same cure times that pre-cat can do. Can't stack face to face within 24 hours though. 

Gemini makes a decent Conversion Varnish. (the best finish on the planet). I get it for close to 2x regular laquers. If you're going for ultimate, bartop quality, that's what I'd use. It's difficult to spray and very picky about going over stain (must be completely dry), but it's the best out there. Although SW makes a better Conversion Varnish, the Gemini is passable and usually a lot cheaper.


----------



## SedoHomes (Apr 4, 2008)

Jonesey said:


> Gemini makes a decent Conversion Varnish. (the best finish on the planet). I get it for close to 2x regular laquers. If you're going for ultimate, bartop quality, that's what I'd use. It's difficult to spray and very picky about going over stain (must be completely dry), but it's the best out there. Although SW makes a better Conversion Varnish, the Gemini is passable and usually a lot cheaper.


 For the most part, I'm just thinking of lacquer to do the staircases. I don't think I need something that good for stairs, but I do want to know, (for when I do use it, and I will, for bars and the like,) can my little 395 pump it out? Or is that something I wait until I can afford to get my FinishPro 390 for?
As for right now, I'm thinking not to use the lacquer on cabinet doors and faces yet, only because I'll be brushing the clearcoat onto the cabinetry itself, with the exception of the doors and faces. I would assume there would be too much disparity between the two....hmmm....I wonder if I used a higher gloss for the cabinet stiles and rails they would match up better? Time to experiment!


----------



## Warmsmeallup (Apr 2, 2008)

In New York, the DEC and/or the EPA would not only shut you down but they would also fine your boss ..I think it's $10,000. per day he ran an unlicensed, non-filtered paint booth. That may be an exageration but it is against all the rules to do what you're doing in most states.

It's obvious that your anxious to get started but you really should look into the environmental issues before you just hope for the best..and get the worst!


----------



## paint_booger (Jun 15, 2007)

My new buddy/guru/pro Steve Jones from Jones painting suggests I use a strictly latex setup on one machine, and then another for the stain/clear coating. I really like that idea, so I'm going to try and revive the Wagner for the latex. Wish me luck, and thanks Steve!
:thumbsup:

Guru Steve knows his schtank! Listen to the man! 

Paint Booger


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 7, 2006)

SedoHomes said:


> For the most part, I'm just thinking of lacquer to do the staircases. I don't think I need something that good for stairs, but I do want to know, (for when I do use it, and I will, for bars and the like,) can my little 395 pump it out? Or is that something I wait until I can afford to get my FinishPro 390 for?
> As for right now, I'm thinking not to use the lacquer on cabinet doors and faces yet, only because I'll be brushing the clearcoat onto the cabinetry itself, with the exception of the doors and faces. I would assume there would be too much disparity between the two....hmmm....I wonder if I used a higher gloss for the cabinet stiles and rails they would match up better? Time to experiment!


We ran CV through a SW 419 for a while. That 395 will pump it better than our SW 419. More equal pressure in the 395. 

I'd really recommend that you spray all cabinets and doors. You'll get a much better finish, and once you get the hang of if, you can quarter your time in a finish on a set of cabinets. You'll also be able to stain much darker. A brush will pull the stain with it as you go, leaving your clearcoat slightly cloudy. Not really noticable to customers, but it is noticable to pros and nit-pickers. 

I'd probably stick with satin for the first few cabinets, guy. It's much more forgiving. Gloss will show everything. If you're going with a gloss product, I'd Famo all your nail and staple holes and sand really well. Soft putty on gloss cabinets always means little fisheyes at your nailheads.

And I'm not really a guru. A lot of guys here know a lot more than I do. I just like listening to myself talk. :thumbup:


----------



## regal (Oct 20, 2007)

pre painting interior trim is a waste of time....once nailed the filled holes only get one coat?! after caulking trim to wall will that trim get painted?! Pre staining..yes...hire a painter...yes


----------



## SedoHomes (Apr 4, 2008)

regal said:


> pre painting interior trim is a waste of time....once nailed the filled holes only get one coat?! after caulking trim to wall will that trim get painted?! Pre staining..yes...hire a painter...yes


As for pre painting interior trim, I am afraid I cannot agree with you. At least, not with our system. We prime and paint one coat before using the casing, and then we attach all casing, and then caulk from casing to jamb, and then paint again. We get great results with that system. As for the holes to be filled, we use a filler tinted to the colour of the trim. 
One question I do have for you about trim though is that when you say "caulk trim to wall" do you mean the outside of the casing to the wall itself? I ask because we rarely if ever do that. We like our lines clean and don't very often have any noticeable gap between casing and wall. I should mention we don't do many renovations, instead mostly new homes. 
As for the pre staining, absolutely. Hire a painter, we are in fact doing that, but they won't be doing our cabinets or staircases, I'll still be doing those.
Thanks for your input, and if you wouldn't mind elaborating on all that you caulk, I'd appreciate it. The better product I put out there, the prouder I be! Thanks again!
Dave


----------

