# Question For The Electric Guys



## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

On the roof project we are doing, we need to cut an inch wide slot 7 inches up from the eave in order to install intake ventilation.

Well wouldn't you know it, there was conduit tight to the roof deck and the saw blade went right through it.

I called an electrical company and they said they can't splice it but will need to install a junction box. Only problem is that there is no access in order for them to do this.

That isn't really my question but shouldn't there be some type of steel plate along the roof deck if they were going to have it right to the deck?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Yep.

Was it actually tight to the sheathing, or down an inch or two? Such precautions are normally taken to prevent nails from hitting the wiring rather than saws. To give them the benefit of a sloppy doubt, they may have figured clearance for roofing nails but not saws.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

It was tight to the roof deck as the saw blade was set no more than a quarter inch deeper than the wood.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Well, I'd say you have a valid defense then. At best, that's a bozo thing to do. If you're looking for a code quote, 480 ought to be along in a while--though for a valid code reference, you'd have to know what year's code was in effect when they installed it.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Thanks Tin!


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

BamBam, wouldn't the steel plate be redundant if the wires were already installed in conduit?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Not all conduit, particularly in residential, is metal. :whistling:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

If it's EMT they can repair the conduit and just pull new wires. (Provided they can reach it)

If it's a clean cut, then a coupling should do it after cleaning and de-burring it.

Pics?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I don't get it. If they can't splice it, what the he11 is the j-box for?

Sorry, I gotta see pix.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

I don't know squat about electrical. Attached is a picture but it may be hard to see because it is taped. One of the wires was easily movable. Opinions?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

That looks like BX, 



> I don't get it. If they can't splice it, what the he11 is the j-box for?


Maybe he meant they can't splice it in one place...gotta make 2 with one big box. I dunno :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Leave it as is until your electrician can get there. My guess is, they can fish between the attic end and the wall end of the runs, but may need to use the space you exposed for access.

It shouldn't take a good elekturshun too long to scope out what needs to be done.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> That looks like BX,
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he meant they can't splice it in one place...gotta make 2 with one big box. I dunno :laughing:


I'd say he can't splice it THERE. No access to the box once the OP wraps things up.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I'd say he can't splice it THERE. No access to the box once the OP wraps things up.


Yeah that's what he was saying. We may have to cut open the roof for him to get in there. 

One problem is that the lower wire isn't moving at all.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Yeah that's what he was saying. We may have to cut open the roof for him to get in there.
> 
> One problem is that the lower wire isn't moving at all.


Depends on where the wires go. A competent mechanic will find the ends of them in short order. Then it will be decided how to approach repairing them. Most likely, they will need to be abandoned and new runs installed.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Depends on where the wires go. A competent mechanic will find the ends of them in short order. Then it will be decided how to approach repairing them. Most likely, they will need to be abandoned and new runs installed.


So I'm looking at a big expensive headache pretty much?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> So I'm looking at a big expensive headache pretty much?


Impossible to tell. It may take a couple hours, it may take a couple days of ripping walls & ceilings open.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

480sparky said:


> Impossible to tell. It may take a couple hours, it may take a couple days of ripping walls & ceilings open.


Well time to call my insurance company.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Call them just in case but insurance is a high priced loan. How about a nice ceiling access panel?


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Why can't those wires just be split together? They are long enough.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Because you need access to the Jbox after. You can get UL listed splice kits but they are NM only IIRC.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

I am guessing this is in an attic space? A tight as it may be it is still accessible through the attic correct? Why not put in two junction boxes with a jumper in between instead of worrying about having enough to splice together? I have seen junction boxes in locations like this before, where you have to lay down a sheet of plywood, crawl on your stomach, use a stubby screwdriver to get the cover off and a mirror to see what your doing.


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

BamBamm5144 said:


> So I'm looking at a big expensive headache pretty much?


Is this really your fault though? Wouldn't this fall into the 'unforeseen circumstances' section of your contract?


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

GregS said:


> Is this really your fault though? Wouldn't this fall into the 'unforeseen circumstances' section of your contract?


Thats what should be in your roofing contract i do . That cut happens more often then not. Wire ,a/c lines , drain lines, cable , phone. Even roofing nails do it to. Hire the right pro for that job and be done with it. Comes with time in field to know.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

Since you don't know anything about electrical- you need to find an electrician to fix this- it is a very simple fix. A junction box can be used-maybe two like woodchuck said.
Then you will have to explain to the homeowner- that an attic access will have to be cut, This is also an easy thing to do & they need one anyway. Probably not enough insulation up there being in the BX days. AND access to Rewire. Maybe some future work for that electrician...............................


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Attached is a picture but it may be hard to see because it is taped.


Oh. That's not conduit. BX pretty much goes where it wants to in a cavity like that, and under most circumstances proximity to the sheathing isn't a concern. 

Bummer.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Oh it's in my contract and according to the contract, the homeowner needs to pay but if it's cheap enough, I'll handle it.

I hired one of the top rated electric companies in the area so we will see at about 8 am this morning.

There is plenty of insulation, maybe too much. We are re-sheathing this roof anyway so if we need to cut in from the roof deck it won't be a big deal.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Not all conduit, particularly in residential, is metal. :whistling:


true, true....my bad


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

skillman said:


> Thats what should be in your roofing contract i do . That cut happens more often then not. Wire ,a/c lines , drain lines, cable , phone. Even roofing nails do it to. Hire the right pro for that job and be done with it. Comes with time in field to know.


I've probably been on around a thousand roofs in my young time and this is the first it ever happened.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

If it makes you feel better I was 4 years into my work until I nicked my first wire, and by nicked I mean cut clean off with a sawzall. Now I check, lesson learned.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

That went well!

About $350 as they were able to snake the wires to where they needed them to go and access was actually easy.


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## Lone Wolf (Feb 14, 2010)

Nice! Who was the EC? Hurry up now and git er buttoned, you know whats comin!:laughing: Damn that reminds me! I better leave the shop early and dig out my snoblower


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> That went well!
> 
> About $350 as they were able to snake the wires to where they needed them to go and access was actually easy.


So you fell for the tree fiddy bit eh? :jester:

JK, glad sparky was able to make it good again.:thumbsup:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

rselectric1 said:


> So you fell for the tree fiddy bit eh? :jester:
> 
> JK, glad sparky was able to make it good again.:thumbsup:


Yeppers. Two guys, took hour and a half. They made it look easy, which I suppose they should.

It was a relief when they told me that.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

BamBamm5144 said:


> I've probably been on around a thousand roofs in my young time and this is the first it ever happened.


Not knocking you at all just that it happenied to me overtime just doing roofs.


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