# Difference between 12/2 and an extension cord?



## Bender

I know thats a fairly dumb sounding question but can you guys help me with this?

I need to run power out to my stock tank to plug in a 1500W heater and a 300W heater(I think, maybe smaller) to my chicken coop. Its about 220ft from my power pole. The pole has 20amp GFCI on it already. 

Can I buy a roll of 250 ft UF-b romex and put plugs on it, basically making a 250 extension cord? The tank heater says DO NOT use with an extension cord but whats the difference between adding a breaker and just using the GFCI?


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## tedanderson

Because extension cords have softer metal, the amount of resistance increases over long distance and could cause a fire. Hence the reason why they probably tell you don't use an extension cord. 

So to answer your question, putting a plug on a UF cable would be better for your purposes. What I don't know is if you are going to have any voltage and/or current drop issues from running a wire that long but in this application it would be much better. 

Are you in a position to connect the UF cable directly to the back side of the GFI vs. using a plug?


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## Leo G

I don't see much difference between the two. Most likely this statement is for the idiot who is going to take a 18ga lamp extension cord and use it to run a 1500 watt heater.

At 220 ft you should be using better that 12 ga to keep the voltage drop down.


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## Bender

tedanderson said:


> Are you in a position to connect the UF cable directly to the back side of the GFI vs. using a plug?


Yes, do you think that would lower the resistance?


Leo! How the heck are ya!?


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## tedanderson

I figure that the fewer "splices" that you have, the less chance that this will cause a problem. When I cap a 12/2 wire to another 12/2 wire, I know what I have. 

If this has to go through a receptacle and a plug, I am guessing at what I have.


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## Bender

OK that makes sense.
I do have one empty slot in the panel so I could add another breaker. I would like a 30 amp breaker so I can add a few things down the road.


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## Tinstaafl

Bender said:


> I would like a 30 amp breaker so I can add a few things down the road.


Not with 12/2. :no:


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## Bender

Ok. I'll use 10/2


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## 480sparky

Bender said:


> .......Can I buy a roll of 250 ft UF-b romex and put plugs on it, basically making a 250 extension cord? ......


No.

Of course, you'll ignore this answer because you'll just ignore the Code reference that prohibits it.

As long as it works, right?


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## Bender

480sparky said:


> No.
> 
> Of course, you'll ignore this answer because you'll just ignore the Code reference that prohibits it.


No, not necessarily. 
I'm wanting to do this proper. It was just a thought/question. If its against the rules I'm good with that (but would like to know why? just for curiosities sake)

So then, if I run 10/2 on a new 30 amp breaker can I end it with a exterior rated 4plex?


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## Leo G

UF in a conduit above ground then by itself to the barn, up into conduit and and outlet on the wall.

Will that work?


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## Railman

Temporary runs of Romex used to be std practice for construction sites not all that long ago. I've done more than a few myself, before it became frowned upon. I preferred to keep mine above ground, preferably at a ht that can't be snagged by anything that moves. Trees or poles where used as needed. They were always good untill permanent power could be run. Never had any issues myself, but you need to keep in mind it's just a temporary fix.
Joe


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## Bender

Well, this is crossing my comfort zone. The 2 wires are 200A to the house, the white ones are 100A to my shop and then a 20A to the GFCI. I can't disconnect this without the POCO can I?

Also, why does the ground and common go to the same bar? I thought they were supposed to be separate?


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## Leo G

Might as well stop right there grasshopper.

Ya, you need POCO to pull the meter and you would have to put in a subpanel

Ground and neutral are the same thing at the main box. You separate them after that. The ground is a non current conductor while the neutral is a current carrying conductor.


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## 480sparky

There's no space for a 2-pole breaker anyway.


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## Bender

Leo G said:


> Might as well stop right there grasshopper.
> 
> Ya, you need POCO to pull the meter and you would have to put in a subpanel
> 
> Ground and neutral are the same thing at the main box. You separate them after that. The ground is a non current conductor while the neutral is a current carrying conductor.


Shoot. Thats what I thought.

480, whats wrong with a single pole 30A breaker?


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## Leo G

That's what I said.


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## 480sparky

Bender said:


> Shoot. Thats what I thought.
> 
> 480, whats wrong with a single pole 30A breaker?



Putting 15 and 20-amp receps on a 30-amp breaker is not allowed.


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## Bender

480sparky said:


> Putting 15 and 20-amp receps on a 30-amp breaker is not allowed.


Ahh OK. So then I would need a sub panel next to the stock tank with a 20A breaker?

And if thats the case I might as well run 6 gauge with a 50A so I can expand later?


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## Bender

After I get this figured out I get to go bug the plumbers and see if I can talk them into helping me install a 2 zone radiant heat system


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## Bender

Oh, and 117 volts before load. How would I test it after the load?


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## Leo G

Put the heater on it and test the voltage.


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## 480sparky

Bender said:


> Can you expand on that? I don't know what you mean by a listing violation,or what a raceway is.


NM clamps are listed for dry locations only. Outside is not a dry location. It's a violation of the UL listing for the item.

Raceway = Conduit. UF is 'subject to physical damage".


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## realelectrician

Also since the circuit is being used as a heating circuit is should be sized as a continuous load.


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## 480sparky

realelectrician said:


> Also since the circuit is being used as a heating circuit is should be sized as a continuous load.


Why is it a continuous load?


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## realelectrician

take the romex connector out and replace it with this


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## realelectrician

480sparky said:


> Why is it a continuous load?


Heating equipment run over 3 hours at a time I'm assuming.


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## 480sparky

realelectrician said:


> Heating equipment run over 3 hours at a time I'm assuming.


At full load?


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## realelectrician

480sparky said:


> At full load?


At a distance of 220 feet and run at 120v it's a no brainer to me to upsize the wire. I'm assuming it's resistance heating and I always size my resistance heating circuits at 125% it's good practice and code in certain cases.


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## 480sparky

realelectrician said:


> At a distance of 220 feet and run at 120v it's a no brainer to me to upsize the wire. I'm assuming it's resistance heating and I always size my resistance heating circuits at 125% it's good practice and code in certain cases.


Voltage drop and continuous loads are two different animals.


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## realelectrician

480sparky said:


> Voltage drop and continuous loads are two different animals.


I know that and he has 2 different animals it sounds. I don't know exactly what he has going on there but I bet he is going to run those heaters full blast for hours on end.


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## Leo G

20 amp circuit with a 15 amp max draw falls within that doesn't it?


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## 480sparky

realelectrician said:


> I know that and he has 2 different animals it sounds. I don't know exactly what he has going on there but I bet he is going to run those heaters full blast for hours on end.


Plugged in and turned on does not mean it's running _at full load_ 24/7.


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## realelectrician

480sparky said:


> Plugged in and turned on does not mean it's running _at full load_ 24/7.


What does 24/7 have to do with anything?

Look up your definitions in the NEC

Continous Load. A load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more.

I don't see anything about 24/7 here.


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## Bender

480sparky said:


> NM clamps are listed for dry locations only. Outside is not a dry location. It's a violation of the UL listing for the item.


Typical home depot recommendation. "Here take these." 
I should have known better... 

So when I bury the wire this spring how does the raceway terminate?
Underground so the exposed wire is protected?


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## Bender

Real, I ran 10-3, not 12-3 if that matters.


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## 480sparky

realelectrician said:


> What does 24/7 have to do with anything?
> 
> Look up your definitions in the NEC
> 
> Continous Load. A load where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more.
> 
> I don't see anything about 24/7 here.


So? Three hours. You didn't teach me anything new. Does this heater fit this definition?


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## 480sparky

Bender said:


> Typical home depot recommendation. "Here take these."
> I should have known better...
> 
> So when I bury the wire this spring how does the raceway terminate?
> Underground so the exposed wire is protected?


The wire _above_ ground is not protected. It needs protected. Sleeve it in some conduit.


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## Leo G

Most heater cycle is what I'm guessing sparky is getting at.


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## realelectrician

Leo G said:


> Most heater cycle is what I'm guessing sparky is getting at.


Yes they do in an insulated enclosed environment. I never seen an insulated chicken coop. Those heaters will run for hours non stop.


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