# Walk in shower to be fully tiled...what's the best thinset?



## rocspec (Nov 25, 2015)

Be careful there, Irish

I'd have solid language in your contract stating that all waterproofing and flood testing was done before you touched the job, and that you're not responsible for any leaks.

Liquid membranes with or without fabric on mud pans is a tricky business. Will the mud have dried at least 3 days? 7 is better. Will proper thickness be achieved for each coat. Is the CBU is rock solid at the transitions? Liquid membranes can only withstand a little movement. Fabric at the changes of plane is important here.


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## RichVT (Feb 28, 2009)

rocspec said:


> I'd have solid language in your contract stating that all waterproofing and flood testing was done before you touched the job, and that you're not responsible for any leaks.


I have to disagree with this. As a professional (someone who is charging for their services) you ARE responsible for determining if the work that came before you is adequate for you to do your portion of the project. If it's not, then you have a responsibility to fix it or walk away. As soon as you touch it, you've implicitly agreed to accept all previous work and any problems WILL become your problems.


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## rocspec (Nov 25, 2015)

Hey VT,

I'm the king of walking away from BS bathroom prep jobs. Two weeks ago, to my amazement, I actually succeeded in getting a contractor to totally rip out his pathetic mess for a do-over. I don't let anyone do my prep.

We all know Irish shouldn't be doing this. He refers to load bearing liquid waterproof membrane as "primer". He hasn't the first foggiest about thinset, etc. Do you think he's going to ensure proper dry-out of the mud pan? Does he know if they even used the correct drain? Is he going to shadow them with a thin film gauge? Is he going to get them to put fabric in changes of plane? Nope, nope, and nope.

Obviously he should walk away with this level of ignorance on the subject and lack of control. But it doesn't sound like he's gonna. Sounds like they're about to turn off his lecricity and he's gonna do what he's gotta do.

Yes, in court he would hang. Yes, he should walk away, Yes, my legal advice is middling at best here. But, if there is a problem that doesn't get past the builder, meaning he takes responsibility, maybe they leave Irish alone because of the contract's wording.

It's not what I would do, and it's clearly not what you would do, Richard. But, the Irishman seems bent on it. Maybe he'll get outbid. Then you could start a go-fund-me page for him so he'll be able to buy potatoes. I'm half Irish, so I get to say that. Those are the rules. I get to say stupid things about Italians too...:jester:


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## RichVT (Feb 28, 2009)

Rocspec,

My comments were intended for Irishslave and just as general advice. I apologize if you thought they were directed at you.

I too find it hard to believe that people are actually encouraging him to take on this job. I will admit to taking on jobs that I probably wasn't fully qualified to do but the older I get, the more I learn to say no to stuff like that due to the risks involved.

Too often contractors seem to think that if they put it writing that "I know what I'm doing is wrong but I'm going to take the customer's money and do it anyway" then everything will be O.K. if they end up in court.

The other piece of advice I've learned over the years: "I've never LOST money on a job I didn't take".

Rich

P.S. I've got plenty of Irish blood in me too. :drink:


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Jesus you remodeling purists are tough...since this is the public part of the forum I can't use the language I often use to emphasize my point. The mods would kick my rear. 

That said I got an e-mail this morning...they decided to go with someone else...they are keeping my info for future projects since I'm so close yada...yada 

Of course I would have put a disclaimer in...plus in the state of Missouri you only have to by law warranty for one year...given this and the other circumstances my lawyer would eat their lawyer. 

It's unfortunate, on here at least that I didn't know what I didn't know, however unlike most hayseeds who wonder into this business because there is few barriers to entry I'm not as slow on the knowledge uptake as you would perceive


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Moreover do you think I used this forum as the exclusive source for research for this project?......come on please. 

As usual when asking for suggestions on this forum it quickly becomes an exercise in penile assessment


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## rocspec (Nov 25, 2015)

Irishslave said:


> As usual when asking for suggestions on this forum it quickly becomes an exercise in penile assessment


Thank God I'm half Italian! I wasn't stricken with the "Irish curse". Not pointing fingers and giggling. Just sayin...

You were given solid advice.

P.S. You should just be happy TNT hasn't dropped by to evangelize. Everyone, so far, has been easter bunny-esque in comparison.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

rocspec said:


> You were given solid advice.


Yeah in a condescending fashion. You guys act like I was trying to steal the job from you....Like tryin to work with your old lady, hang all matter Of "I know better than you" and I'm gonna let you know it. 

If you guys are so afraid of getting sued put in a binding arbitration clause. I've been sued before...it's alway frivolous chit....The only people that ever sued me and won is the government...I ain't scared of that in the least.


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## rocspec (Nov 25, 2015)

Oy vey, Irish

I suppose the liberal use of emoticons or imogees are required when expressing anything in text. Would it have seemed less condescending if each sentence was ended with “sweetie” or “poopsie”? You were offered help by your brothers, not by foreboding cucks.

Failures, whether catastrophic of inconsequential, are a possibility in construction. We all know that. For those of us who focus on bathrooms, a shower leak can be disastrous. We’ve ripped ‘em out. We know. Getting sued sucks, even if you’re OK with it. What would really suck is a redo which might include degraded framing and finishes outside of the immediate failure zone beyond the shower proper. Mold might also be part of the equation.

Liquid membranes have been used for a long time. I got on the train only ten years ago. I’m all in. However, there are circumstances where I will not use them on a shower pan where I’ve made the judgment that a floor/wall junction is unsuitable. If there’s a potential for more movement than I’m comfortable with, then no liquid membrane. It’ll be good ole sucky pvc or cpe with presolpes and clamp drains and notched studs and top mud and mud curbs and more time than I’d like to spend.

Just one example:
I ripped out an existing, large, full wrap bathroom. The new shower was to be relocated to the right of the centered entry door. This existing entry door was to be retained. When the tile and CBU came off the wall, the entry door racked so badly that a shoulder needed to be thrown against it to get back in the room. So what happened here? The girder and its supports/footings had dropped just enough, along with the 2 x12 floors joists spanned 15’ set upon them. That the wall was hanging slightly above it all. This particular wall extended up to a vaulted ceiling. So, the wall was basically hanging from the rafters at about the middle of their run. Even after corrections to the framing, and based on the slope of the roof and potential snow loading, I decided that a liquid membrane on the pan was a no-go on this one. The house was built about 800 feet from an open bay. I also felt that the footings dropping even further over time might be possible. A PVC liner went in and all of the archaic steps associated with it. 

You should understand that those with an opinion might know a thing or two about a thing or two and don't mind sharing. It’s also possible they consider particular issues about this particular subject more deeply, at this point, than either you or some random hayseed deem necessary. 

I can’t speak for anyone else who piped in on this thread. Unlike you, I can’t distinguish between those who truly wanted to inform you from the ones that really just wanted to scare you away from their customers or wives or worse. That’s for you to divine. 

Have a beer, or a laxative, or a happy ending, and chill out, cupcake. 

P.S. Sorry you lost the bid and missed out on the duckets. It’s a crazy business…this thing of ours.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Irishslave said:


> Yeah in a condescending fashion. You guys act like I was trying to steal the job from you....Like tryin to work with your old lady, hang all matter Of "I know better than you" and I'm gonna let you know it.
> 
> If you guys are so afraid of getting sued put in a binding arbitration clause. I've been sued before...it's alway frivolous chit....The only people that ever sued me and won is the government...I ain't scared of that in the least.


Sorry I didn't see this post Irish, I would have helped you out. I agree with the condescending BS being slung around the site lately. You shouldn't wonder why this site has slacked off from the good ole days of professionals helping each other. Today it seems, most just pucker up their chest feathers to degrade and demean. 

I'm crossed trained and proficient in many trades...and I didn't get there by hacking and smacking other people down. Our site today seems on par with the political climate this country is facing...people just hate one another.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Irishslave said:


> You guys act like I was trying to steal the job from you


maybe some guys are, but I choose to believe others are like me who are careful in advising because they would like to give the best advice possible, which is partially dictated by the situation. Hopefully you've run across the John Bridge forum, it's a great resource. 

I started using RedGard but switched to Hydro Barrier with fabric because of the smell can be intense in occupied remodels. 

I prefer Kerdi which I believe is a great product, but it's expensive and not going to make a competitive bid. Wedi makes a really cool system that carry's a warranty and looks fast, downside is that it's expensive.


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