# Question about prepping kitchen walls.



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

I'm far from a drywall expert, but I don't get some of these guys that put the mud on 1/4" thick and then sand most of it off, and repeat.
When I patch drywall, I use 20min mud and put on multiple light layers, and just scrape off the tits with my knife between coats. I hardly sand anything, even on butt joints.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

m1911 said:


> I'm far from a drywall expert, but I don't get some of these guys that put the mud on 1/4" thick and then sand most of it off, and repeat.
> When I patch drywall, I use 20min mud and put on multiple light layers, and just scrape off the tits with my knife between coats. I hardly sand anything, even on butt joints.



I just got my hands on 5 min mud the other day. I just wanted to fix a couple screw pops real quick. Hit them. Drank half a cup of coffee, and it was dry. Impressive


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> I just got my hands on 5 min mud the other day. I just wanted to fix a couple screw pops real quick. Hit them. Drank half a cup of coffee, and it was dry. Impressive


I bought 5 min mud. once. I can't move fast enough to work with that stuff. :laughing:

20 min is pushing it. 90 min is more my speed... :laughing:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

m1911 said:


> I bought 5 min mud. once. I can't move fast enough to work with that stuff. :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 min is pushing it. 90 min is more my speed... :laughing:



They make 240 if you're ever feeling lazy.


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

and the sheetrock brand is all I buy, it seems to set consistantly each time.
The HD chit hasn't worked well for me, it seems to stay damp longer?


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

m1911 said:


> and the sheetrock brand is all I buy, it seems to set consistantly each time.
> The HD chit hasn't worked well for me, it seems to stay damp longer?


How long it takes to set up can depend on a number of things. There are the obvious ones like air temp, humidity level, water temp used to mix.

I have also found that how much you work the mud when you are mixing it makes a difference in how long it takes to set up. Mixing with pan and knife will take longer to set up than mixing with a drill and mixer.

I've also found that bags than have been opened for a time, or bags that have been exposed to some degree of moisture take longer to setup. Somehow the moisture used up some of the oomf for when you actually want to use it. I always have partially used bags sitting around, seems like they take longer to setup than new bags from lowes.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> I just got my hands on 5 min mud the other day. I just wanted to fix a couple screw pops real quick. Hit them. Drank half a cup of coffee, and it was dry. Impressive



I know you don't like painting so this may not help you... Lol. 

When we are painting rooms in a house, pretty much first thing after moving furniture someone (typically me) goes around with a light shining across the walls and pencil marking everything you see. Then go back, pull out all nails, use the end of the 4" knife and push in anything that needs it and get all prepped.

Then mix up 5 min mud and get ready to run. Lol. Depending on the size of the room and how bad it was, you can't even get the room done off one pan. But it is loads better than 20 for that application. Especially when you can do the cut in before you sand and prime the spots.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Spencer said:


> How long it takes to set up can depend on a number of things. There are the obvious ones like air temp, humidity level, water temp used to mix.
> 
> I have also found that how much you work the mud when you are mixing it makes a difference in how long it takes to set up. Mixing with pan and knife will take longer to set up than mixing with a drill and mixer.
> 
> I've also found that bags than have been opened for a time, or bags that have been exposed to some degree of moisture take longer to setup. Somehow the moisture used up some of the oomf for when you actually want to use it. I always have partially used bags sitting around, seems like they take longer to setup than new bags from lowes.


The bags also separate. It's good to mix the dry mix of its been sitting around, especially in the back of the truck.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

EthanB said:


> You need to teach your guys the other way of doing it, Matt. You scrape it and prime it then skim it with about 1/4 of mud then sand it, then sand it, then sand it...
> 
> You get the idea.





icerock drywall said:


> if you sand that much you need to put your tools down.
> if you skim coat there is just a little scrap I would keep my festool home...no need to sand that much





m1911 said:


> I'm far from a drywall expert, but I don't get some of these guys that put the mud on 1/4" thick and then sand most of it off, and repeat.
> When I patch drywall, I use 20min mud and put on multiple light layers, and just scrape off the tits with my knife between coats. I hardly sand anything, even on butt joints.


Do I really need to put a smiley face so you guys know I'm joking? What professional actually thinks putting 1/4 of mud on is the right thing to do?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

EthanB said:


> Do I really need to put a smiley face so you guys know I'm joking? What professional actually thinks putting 1/4 of mud on is the right thing to do?


I knew you were joking. :thumbsup:


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I've seen it to. Drives me nuts. I hate sanding. The only time I really need to sand is at then of a long day and my shoulder starts going out. I don't get as tight a pull on my trowel.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

KAP said:


> I am not aware of any code requirement that says that when you do a patch, which is all this is, you have to permit and upgrade the insulation, wiring, etc...


I will enlighten you, any time you remove an area greater than 25% of a wall area then permit is required. Then rehab code kicks in for insulation and fireblocking


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Never heard of that, or even a rumor of it, or ever had it mentioned or discussed.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tom M said:


> I will enlighten you, any time you remove an area greater than 25% of a wall area then permit is required. Then rehab code kicks in for insulation and fireblocking


I can gut a bathroom and as long as I don't move any mechanical I don't need a permit.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I can gut a bathroom and as long as I don't move any mechanical I don't need a permit.


I dont know what rules your area follows but in NJ this is a rule.

For baths sometimes the exposure of the wall and insulation is the only real trigger for a permit. We dont need a permit to upgrade electrical fixtures like lights of GFI if the bath is already fed correctly.
We also dont need a plumbing permit to change a diverter, a sink or a toilet but move a pipe then technically you need a permit.

A lot of people dodge permits by tip toeing around this.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

VinylHanger said:


> Never heard of that, or even a rumor of it, or ever had it mentioned or discussed.


Again I dont know your area but in NJ less than 25% is considered ordinary maintenance or repair which is exempt from a permit. Changing cabinets does not require a permit. Over this triggers amount is supposed to be the threashold for rehab work.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tom M said:


> I dont know what rules your area follows but in NJ this is a rule.
> 
> For baths sometimes the exposure of the wall and insulation is the only real trigger for a permit. We dont need a permit to upgrade electrical fixtures like lights of GFI if the bath is already fed correctly.
> We also dont need a plumbing permit to change a diverter, a sink or a toilet but move a pipe then technically you need a permit.
> ...


That was kinda my point. Every area is different regarding permits.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

You know how I know? I know because I do construction for a living and I make it a point to invest some knowledge into staying informed on whats required of my sales. Right now I have the renewal fee on my desk that keeps me in the loop with state adminstrative changes. 

I bet 80 percent of contractors dont own a code book or know the other rules of their areas, nor do they care to.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I know you don't like painting so this may not help you... Lol.
> 
> When we are painting rooms in a house, pretty much first thing after moving furniture someone (typically me) goes around with a light shining across the walls and pencil marking everything you see. Then go back, pull out all nails, use the end of the 4" knife and push in anything that needs it and get all prepped.
> 
> Then mix up 5 min mud and get ready to run. Lol. Depending on the size of the room and how bad it was, you can't even get the room done off one pan. But it is loads better than 20 for that application. Especially when you can do the cut in before you sand and prime the spots.



That's pretty much what I was doing it for. The painters had the first coat on, and I could see a couple things I didn't like.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Tom M said:


> I bet 80 percent of contractors dont own a code book or know the other rules of their areas, nor do they care to.


Just because It's done by code don't mean It's done right !

I see it too often ! We need to get rid of the paper pushers /truck ass G/C's and get back to the bones of what home building is really all about !

Real men ! Who care about building a home !


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

blacktop said:


> Just because It's done by code don't mean It's done right !
> 
> I see it too often ! We need to get rid of the paper pushers /truck ass G/C's and get back to the bones of what home building is really all about !
> 
> Real men ! Who care about building a home !


I don't know what you mean not being right and the code. There needs to be a rhyme & reason for doing things. Real men to me or tradesmen were guys who came up from laborer and evolved with experience through some years. Not those who did some work around the house & thought they were good enough to be contractors. Some YouTube & a website and away they go. Or some money guy without a clue moving property. I would agree the administrative end of the code is a bit burdensome but that fact so many are clueless on what we are supposed to be doing makes it worse.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tom M said:


> You know how I know? I know because I do construction for a living and I make it a point to invest some knowledge into staying informed on whats required of my sales. Right now I have the renewal fee on my desk that keeps me in the loop with state adminstrative changes.
> 
> I bet 80 percent of contractors dont own a code book or know the other rules of their areas, nor do they care to.


I bet 80% of all statistics on the internet are made up.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tom M said:


> I don't know what you mean not being right and the code. There needs to be a rhyme & reason for doing things. Real men to me or tradesmen were guys who came up from laborer and evolved with experience through some years. Not those who did some work around the house & thought they were good enough to be contractors. Some YouTube & a website and away they go. Or some money guy without a clue moving property. I would agree the administrative end of the code is a bit burdensome but that fact so many are clueless on what we are supposed to be doing makes it worse.


Codes are typically the least one can do. Codes are always the right way to do it. I know I have scratched my head more than once. 

Also, a lot of codes were written by lobbyists for larger companies, unions or manufacturers.

For instance electrical. In my town everything needs to be in conduit (most everything). However you drive 15 minutes south of me and Romex is legal. So if I run romex I'm out of code even though it's a time tested product.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Statistics of what? Many Sources of opinion and fact available.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Codes are typically the least one can do. Codes are always the right way to do it. I know I have scratched my head more than once.
> 
> Also, a lot of codes were written by lobbyists for larger companies, unions or manufacturers.
> 
> For instance electrical. In my town everything needs to be in conduit (most everything). However you drive 15 minutes south of me and Romex is legal. So if I run romex I'm out of code even though it's a time tested product.


Most codes are driven by disaster & insurance. Manufacturers need to meet a standard. 
People say code is the minimum like a talking point but really other than beefing up some framing for stiffer floors or better insulation there is not much else.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Electrical I couldn't tell you anything other than building type influences fire rating. If your talking about the same kind of house in different nieghborhoods but different codes then I feel your aggregation. We have the codes and what is supposed to be a Uniform Construction code that is across the state but I have one part of a neighboring town which is historic and all kinds of nonsense kicks in.


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