# brick chimney leaking through brick?



## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

Hi all, I am new to this site, 30 yrs in the building industry.
I put this in the masonary section too, not knowing who might have seen this.
Last August i replaced a roof on a simple ranch house. We used 30 yr architect grade shingles. About a week ago the homeowner called me and said his roof was leaking! I made arrangements to go pay him a visit and low and behold the chimney block was wet inside the attic! 
The chimney is a cinderblock double with brick laid from the roofline up and out. It is in pretty bad shape, all lead up flashing and step flashing was replaced. I am having a hard time convincing the HO that the brick are actualy letting the water in and not the flashing. The mortar joints are cracked and there is even pieces of brick missing. I think over the winter with lots of freezing and thawing that the brick have gotten worse or bad enough to let the water in behind the flashing. We had incredible amounts of rain last fall and no leaking.
Just curious if anyone has ever seen this problem? Also to note, the brick were stepped out over the cinderblocks to make the chim, look bigger i guess?
thanks,
dave


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Construction dictates an air gap of 2" to combustibles. So walls surrounding the chimney never gets close enough to the masonry to show water through it. Any water getting in will soak down the chase into the footing itself. So water leaks from masonry rarely come to the forefront. If your chase is not enclosed or it is corbeled off center these issues will show up. If brick is missing or that corroded they like have updated they're furnace to a higher efficency or added more stuff to that chimney which it cant handle. Higher efficency's dont lose enough heat to escape up the chimney so they condense up the shaft and corrode.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Seen this once in a dozen or so years. Reshingled and flashed around the giant chimney then went back again and did it again, still leaked. Finaly found the water to be getting in via the brick/motor joints. It's was nice to see the end to the problem as I'd exhausted all my profit on the job by return trips and finaly ripping it apart again.

Guess I stood behind my warranty a little to good!


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

yeah, i've redone all the up flashing already, even though i didn't realy think that was where the problem was. I am going to take a hose to it this weekend and just hose around the base just to prove my flashing isn't leaking.
I hate this, I have done many roofs and have had many customers over the years and this is the first time i have ever been called back for something like this. 
I never get called back for anything being wrong or faulty!! :shutup:


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## CanCritter (Feb 9, 2010)

chimmney cap>?....water may be going down flue and finding a bad joint and goin from there...cracked flues?
have seen cracked flus leach chimmney soot right through exterior stonework...turns black..


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## English Roofer (Dec 22, 2008)

Hi, Perhapes you need to fit a damp proof course of lead to your chimney?
Have a look at this , and you will see what i mean, hope it helps
Cheers
Dave

http://justlead.co.uk/news/Page-2.html


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

interesting! 
maybe i'll show that to the HO
also someone had installed a stainless flue liner for a woodstove in one flue. the cap they put on is not sealed, all the concrete around the top is cracked and missing and there is no poured cap to speak of, nothing with an overhang.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

dave_dj1 said:


> all the concrete around the top is cracked and missing


There's your huckleberry.

Needs a new wash/crown or a full chimney cover.The water is entering at the top and by-passing your flashing.


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## English Roofer (Dec 22, 2008)

seeyou said:


> There's your huckleberry.
> 
> Needs a new wash/crown or a full chimney cover.The water is entering at the top and by-passing your flashing.


SeeYou could be right, in the past with chimney leaks i have always started from the top, over here where the pot or flue comes out of the chimney it is normally bedded on with sand and cemnet which tends to get pourous or flakey over the years, if replacing that doesnt work,we then seal it with a water sealent paint, usually re-point the chimney as well, then water seal the brick work with thompsons water seal.
If that doesnt work and it doesnt have a damp proof course of lead then this is where it gets expensive because to fit one of them the chimney needs to be taken down to just above the flashings,dpc fitted then the chimney need to be rebuilt!
Good luck with it.
Cheers
Dave


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

A little bit of both worlds


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Once the brick gets saturated with water, any additional water will wick through. It will look like the brick is sweating, looking at it from in the attic. 
Was it a wetter than normal year?
When it dries out use a good sealer and should fix the problem.
This assumes you ruled out the roofing and flashing.
It rains all the time here and have seen this many times.
You're not going to find a good sealer at HD talk to your mason.


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## English Roofer (Dec 22, 2008)

red_cedar said:


> A little bit of both worlds


 I cant say i have ever seen it done like that but i like it, nice work!
oh i hope you patinated the lead to stop it streaking down the brick work lol
Cheers
Dave


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

No, I didnt. Had not heard of pre- patinaing lead before I looked at the video.
Theres a concrete cap drip edge. Its different I know, but copper would have not looked any better, unless it was a decrative box type of cap.

With regard to the through pan that is done over by you. Waterproofing wise could not do better. I would think though that the metal would weaken the structure ( chimney) at that point. The mortar bound is broken. 

I do smaller brick chimneys and if I dont allow for some masonry to masonry bond with regard to built in even counterflashings, the joints that are involved are weak. 


That lead work over acroos the pound is something else though.:thumbsup:


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

red_cedar said:


> With regard to the through pan that is done over by you. Waterproofing wise could not do better. I would think though that the metal would weaken the structure ( chimney) at that point. The mortar bound is broken.
> 
> I do smaller brick chimneys and if I dont allow for some masonry to masonry bond with regard to built in even counterflashings, the joints that are involved are weak. :thumbsup:


The pull of gravity is still strong, though. I've through flashed many chimneys and none of them have gone flying off the roof yet.


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## English Roofer (Dec 22, 2008)

red_cedar said:


> No, I didnt. Had not heard of pre- patinaing lead before I looked at the video.
> Theres a concrete cap drip edge. Its different I know, but copper would have not looked any better, unless it was a decrative box type of cap.
> 
> With regard to the through pan that is done over by you. Waterproofing wise could not do better. I would think though that the metal would weaken the structure ( chimney) at that point. The mortar bound is broken.
> ...


As regards to the through the pan i can see what you mean about it weakening the chimney structure but it doesnt seem to be the case in any i have seen or done, remember theres normally alot of bricks and motar above the lead pan point, so it doesnt tend to shift.
Cheers
Dave


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

well i covinced the HO to have a chimney specialist to come in and look at the chimney and then fix it if the expert advises. I told him i have done all i can and am willing to do.


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

hope it works out for the homeowner.

with regard to my posts and spelling, it has a lot to be desired!


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## flippinfool (Jan 6, 2009)

*Bullet proof*

I used this product over ten years ago and still do. It stopped water dead in it's tracks. I had the same problem with a chimney. Relaced flashing and re-crowned and still let water in. Chimney saver was the answer.www.ChimneySaver.com
This product will not seal the chimney. 



















10 Year Warranty
100% Vapor Permeable
Environmentally Friendly
Non Glossy Look
Efflorescence/Stain Protections
Mildew/Fungus Resistant
Freeze/Thaw Protection
Water-based and Environmentally Friendly
According to the *Brick Industry Association*, chimneys require special attention and maintenance to prevent costly damage caused by water penetration. Because chimneys project above the roof line, they are vulnerable to the elements. Nearly every chimney you encounter has signs of water damage! The first step is to determine the cause and then find the best corrective measures. ChimneySaver, the first product developed specifically for chimneys, has been used successfully by leading chimney professionals for nearly 20 years. It reduces water penetration into the masonry by 99.9%, according to ASTM tests conducted at the University of Wyoming. 







It’s also 100% vapor permeable, which means it won’t trap water vapors that may pass through the bricks when the chimney is in use, unlike other products found in most hardware or home improvement stores. Those products when applied to a masonry chimney can actually slow down water vapors as they pass through the chimney leading to water damage.
*Whether to use Water-Base or Solvent-base*
ChimneySaver is available in both solvent (mineral spirits) and water-based formulas. The water-based formula is most popular, however, if a water repellent has previously been applied to the masonry, we recommend the solvent-based formula.

Moisture from a variety of sources is always present in masonry and concrete. Sealers and silicone coatings form a water resistant surface film which trap water vapors inside. If these vapors cannot escape, they will contribute to spalling, scaling, deterioration, and freeze-thaw damage. ChimneySaver is 100% vapor permeable - a non film-forming water repellent that penetrates and lines masonry pores.




Neil


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## Patrick0 (Dec 12, 2011)

*Fix Chimney Brick Leaks*

Chimney brick leaks are due to old or bad mortar and/or old bricks. The bricks are exposed to the harshest of the elements and become porous.

An easy and reliable fix is to spend $10.00 on a gallon of Thomson's General Purpose Water sealer and coat the entire chimney including the cap with it.

Works for me!


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## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

Patrick0 said:


> Chimney brick leaks are due to old or bad mortar and/or old bricks. The bricks are exposed to the harshest of the elements and become porous.
> 
> An easy and reliable fix is to spend $10.00 on a gallon of Thomson's General Purpose Water sealer and coat the entire chimney including the cap with it.
> 
> Works for me!


Only 18 months late...


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Renegade said:


> Only 18 months late...


That's OK. He's probably having to re-apply sealer by now anyway.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

Well, all I can say is thank goodness for you home improvement guys. My job is secure for the next 30 years or so. 

I can never understand why the roofer or HO doesn't call in a mason before doing the roof. Never fails, "Can you come look at my chimney? It is leaking and we just put a new roof on this summer!"

I have to charge a lot more to protect the roof and the work is exactly the same except for protecting the roof. Working on one right now that was roofed two years ago and the chimney is leaking. The flashing done by the roofer was the biggest hack job this side of Kentucky and the guy does the same thing on every flashing job I have seen from him.

Sealing will help a good chimney stay in top condition, but if there are a bunch of joints missing and brick fractures, sealing will not fix it for long. 

There are as many sealers on the market as there are flavors of soda. They are not all the same and the good stuff is not to be found at a big box store. Sorry, but I deal with this stuff every day and I can tell you that if your paying less than 75/gal. for a sealer it aint worth the bag it came in. Some of the expensive sealer is crap as well. Some of it is really good stuff. Thompsons is the probably equal to spraying it with Pam, the stuff you spray on your pan before you cook eggs in the morning. WD 40 would probably be just as effective. 

One size does not fit all and a mason who does a lot of repair work on chimneys will probably be the best resource for determining if you can repair a leaking chimney or replace it. I almost never recommend sealing the chimney before I rebuild it any more. I might get a year or two out of a high quality sealer, but if its leaking water, its got lots of issues. 

This is what a properly built chimney should look like. And believe me not very many of them look like this.


This company has a lot of good sealers. The trick is finding the proper product for your situation.
Prosoco


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i have found that most leaking thru the masonry repairs were not as ''exotic'' as that:no:usually just flashed wrong


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## dennis (Nov 17, 2004)

> This is what a properly built chimney should look like. And believe me not very many of them look like this.


That may be the way a chimney should be built, but the flashing is wrong.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

That pic doesn't show the counter flashing/ flashing detail very well. 

I have never understood the through flashing concept on a chimney, but I am willing to learn.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

dennis said:


> That may be the way a chimney should be built, but the flashing is wrong.


Just because it's not counter flashed?


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

Here's one I did in the summer. The chimney was leaking.
Tore down the old one and rebuilt with new.
The flashings are not built in like it looks. Its actualy pretty hard to build in copper counter flashing and have it turn out well. Its easier with lead.

Before..










After...


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## WindowsonWash (Nov 1, 2011)

Thats purdy.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

dakzaag said:


> That pic doesn't show the counter flashing/ flashing detail very well.
> 
> I have never understood the through flashing concept on a chimney, but I am willing to learn.


The Europeans are the only ones that seem to get this right. 

Want to see a properly constructed though wall/dcp tray complete with all the trimmings - study these...This is how you caulk and seal a chimney - hypothetically speaking of course :whistling

And good sealers like Prosoco Sure-Klean PD ain't $75 around here... more like $25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAdcYazFIio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPxBe...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkvwjE0LQOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeDPf...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lov8...eature=related


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Sorry, some of those links aren't working for some reason - Just follow Peter Scholey from just lead - he's got a couple videos on the tube that explain this and show first class workmanship.


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## RandyB1986 (Jan 2, 2009)

DakZagg picture link not working for me........it takes me to Comcast. Whats up?


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## RoofSales (Dec 7, 2011)

Very good advise here. My background is in commercial/industrial contracting. That being said, I don't have a lot of experience with repairs of this nature.

A few months ago I noticed water running down an old chimney in an investment property I have. After a several days and hundreds of dollars, I finally got the leaks to stop... but I'm pretty sure I did a lot more than was necessary!!!


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## Michael Olding (Aug 5, 2008)

Those trays are a great idea to keeping a chimney tight. I'll have to add one on the next rebuild I do. Thanks for the input!


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 16, 2010)

I've been in this business for over 30 years and I can assure you (and the homeowner) that there was no possible way my flashing was or could be leaking. All of my years in the trade I have never once had to call a mason to flash, heck, most of the time when they are building them they have no idea how to flash them. (around here anyway). 
I was taught that the down flashing is the masons and the up/counter flashing is mine. 

The particular chimney that I originally posted about was in terrible shape, missing mortar, cracks in the brick and the cap was missing chunks. 
I never did hear back from the HO, he ended up passing away about a year ago.(some form of cancer I was told)


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

sometimes they leak and you never know it


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

RoofYourWorld said:


> Very good advise here. My background is in commercial/industrial contracting. That being said, I don't have a lot of experience with repairs of this nature.
> 
> A few months ago I noticed water running down an old chimney in an investment property I have. After a several days and hundreds of dollars, I finally got the leaks to stop... but I'm pretty sure I did a lot more than was necessary!!!


The area by your name says you were in Peru. Did you see Machu Picchu?


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## RoofSales (Dec 7, 2011)

red_cedar said:


> The area by your name says you were in Peru. Did you see Machu Picchu?


I visited Cusco 2 years ago but was not able to see Machu Picchu due to flooding. I did, however, get to see the other AMAZING sites while I was there. 

Visiting Cusco was the reason I decided to move to South America. I had never in my life felt the way I felt when I saw some of those ruins... felt like a power was surging through me _(may have just been the altitude and coca leaves)_.

I moved to Lima _(the city)_ in October 2011 and lived there until about 3 weeks ago. Been living in Cajamarca _(the Andes)_ since.

I'm planning to re-visit Cusco/Machu Picchu in July or August. Supposedly that is the 'best' time to visit because the rainy season will have passed. 

Have you been there?


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

> (may have just been the altitude and coca leaves).


 The lack of oxygen probably did have something to do with it :laughing:

Seriously, No Ive never been, but have been fascinated with the central and South American ruins and ancient history. Makes one wonder what was really going on down there.... Another area that comes to mind is the nazca lines... 
Your fortunate to be able to follow your dream/ passion.


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## hometechofmi (Mar 30, 2012)

same issue same results tear out and re do lost on that one but next time solved issue much quicker 
:clap:


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