# Abusive lead carpenters



## patgeds22 (Sep 18, 2014)

So it. Seems like every company I work for that the lead carpenter is kind of abusive. Not a whole lot to me per se but definitely enough to those around me to where it's not a fun and positive workplace. I'm also noticing however much the boss says in the interview that we dont accept anything but perfect work seems to be overridden by the lead on site telling us to get things done faster and complain if we have to redo something because it isn't right. The company I'm with now is a high end finish crew around Boston and the company before was a high end remodeler in Rhode Island (I left mostly because I have no interest in working outside anymore and I didn't like how they weren't toonconcerned with safety while demoing). I find carpentry to be very rewarding work when given the right circumstances, but I'm starting to think it could be time for a change considering this labor of love is not very loving


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

patgeds22 said:


> Seems like every company I work for that the lead carpenter is kind of abusive





patgeds22 said:


> I'm starting to think it could be time for a change considering this labor of love is not very lovin


Not knowing you or everything about the circumstances, when I read that "*every *company I work for the lead carpenter is kind of abusive".....

it sounds like it's time for a change.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Plenty of workplaces are abusive to one extent or another, not just construction.

The 22yo that wanted to work construction that I know, but everyone he worked for was abusive found his nonabusuve job.

He now works at a medical marijuana dispensary. Apparently, they're all mellow there.

True story.

Early on, a black friend of mine showed me how to handle it / not react to it. Water off a duck's back.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

hdavis said:


> Plenty of workplaces are abusive .....
> 
> Early on, a black friend of mine showed me how to handle it / not react to it. Water off a duck's back.



Do tell.


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## KTW (Apr 2, 2021)

If you love it, learn to sell it. Soak in all the info you can and start your own.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Mordekyle said:


> Do tell.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He never lost his cool, never was upset by it. He didn't let it ruin having a good day. Water off a ducks back was exactly what he told me about it. Much easier said than done.

A lot if times he'd laugh about whatever occurred later. He could see it coming ahead of the time, and could get into the person's head.


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

When your running a crew, there are all kinds of hurdles. New hires that are lost, plan errors, material delays & deadlines just to name a few. All while trying to sail a tough reach keeping everybody happy top to bottom. I think a lot of it is stress, unintentional & the mindset of that’s the way they have to come across. OP mentioned “kind of abusive” & “things having to be redone. He also said he didn’t like working outside & the labor of love was not too loving. So what is kind of abusive? Should high end work be redone. Granted none of us are perfect. Can any field choose if they work outside or not. As far as labor of love not so loving, I damn sure don’t get that one. As Robbie said look elsewhere

Mike


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## Mesilla Valley (Jun 10, 2020)

patgeds22 said:


> So it. Seems like every company I work for that the lead carpenter is kind of abusive. Not a whole lot to me per se but definitely enough to those around me to where it's not a fun and positive workplace. I'm also noticing however much the boss says in the interview that we dont accept anything but perfect work seems to be overridden by the lead on site telling us to get things done faster and complain if we have to redo something because it isn't right. The company I'm with now is a high end finish crew around Boston and the company before was a high end remodeler in Rhode Island (I left mostly because I have no interest in working outside anymore and I didn't like how they weren't toonconcerned with safety while demoing). I find carpentry to be very rewarding work when given the right circumstances, but I'm starting to think it could be time for a change considering this labor of love is not very loving


Have you tried communicating with the lead or owner. Sometimes it works, I would want to know if I’m looking at a worker’s comp. claim because someone is screwing around during a demo job. You’ve been around this forum since 14 maybe you are ready to be the lead or as others have said go on your own. Skilled workers are worth their weight in osb at the moment, sounds like you have valuable skills.


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## WBailey1041 (Jan 31, 2014)

Mesilla Valley said:


> worth their weight in osb at the moment
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You’re making a tragedy sound poetic! I can’t elaborate though...
Gotta go hit the treadmill and work off a few sheets of OSB.


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## mrcat (Jun 27, 2015)

Mesilla Valley said:


> Skilled workers are worth their weight in osb at the moment
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 One of my guys literally just paid me for some soffit i ordered for him with some 2x6's he had left over from a personal project.

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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Abuse? You haven't worked for me.


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## sparehair (Nov 21, 2008)

If you're not the lead dog, the scenery will always be the ******* in front of you.


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## Resta (Feb 11, 2009)

It’s your insecurity. When you know what you’re doing and can stand up for yourself
nobody will abuse you, maybe try once or twice . So, stop being afraid stand for your self.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I don’t know

I don’t know you, or the guys you’ve worked for

Maybe you have a knack for picking $)(tty companies to work for.

Maybe you are kind of soft and need to be ridden hard.

Who’s to say.


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## StabMasterArs0n (Nov 17, 2020)

Though verbal abuse in our industry is probably more common than in others it is not universal. Some guys get prickly when expectations are not met. Sometimes these expectations are not clearly stated.

Some guys just screw up all the time. This can be due to lack of training, lack of common sense, or many other factors. In my region contractors are desperate for carpenters, leads, and superintendents. This has allowed me to be choosy and find companies with good culture. Maybe next time you are interviewing think about the interview process as going both ways. Quiz them about what they value and how they treat their crews.


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## patgeds22 (Sep 18, 2014)

Resta said:


> It’s your insecurity. When you know what you’re doing and can stand up for yourself
> nobody will abuse you, maybe try once or twice . So, stop being afraid stand for your self.


He doesn't rmess with me but messes with the younger guys. Makes it not a positive workplace to be a part of


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## patgeds22 (Sep 18, 2014)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I don’t know
> 
> I don’t know you, or the guys you’ve worked for
> 
> ...


They don't mess with me but they get really irritated with the younger guys and it's not fun to be around


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## Kingcarpenter1 (May 5, 2020)

As 7d said, we don’t know your situation. But — you’ve been here 7 years. So being in the biz at least that long, if you haven’t learned to block negative chit out as hdavis touched on maybe it’s time for another line of work. If you stay in this biz it’s going to be around. Put yourself in the leads shoes, all the young guys attitudes he’s dealt with among other responsibilities would make anybody raw & on edge. So look through his eyes & wear his bags for a couple weeks. Or, if you start your own biz that will give you the chance to look through his eyes & what he deals with

Mike


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## Half-fast Eddie (Aug 21, 2020)

patgeds22 said:


> the lead on site telling us to get things done faster and complain if we have to redo something because it isn't right.


I can’t remember any jobs where the foreman said “take as long as you like, forget the schedule, and no problem if you screw it up and have to rip it all out”.


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## Kowboy (May 7, 2009)

When the abusive lead runs through enough guys that won't take his crap, his boss will notice and act accordingly. Not that that does you any good, except to know that karma's a *****.


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## Stunt Carpenter (Dec 31, 2011)

One thing that I find a lot of new guys don’t realize is that a lot of Job site talk it direct and to the point for efficiency sake.
It’s not being an ass when you say “pass me that tool”, just more efficient than “can you please pass me that tool”.
I’ve seen a lot of people get bent out of shape over that little difference


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## Donquardo (Oct 29, 2015)

I think that a lead carpenters exasperation and frustration with new guys can be the result of a simple disconnect. After you've been in a trade for a bunch of years it can be hard to relate to the new guys who have little or no experience.

Think of all the carpentry terminology and fundamentals that you probably take for granted. How to handle heavy materials like trusses or 12' sheets of drywall without hurting yourself, how to cross cut a 2x6 square by eye etc. There are a ton of ways that new guys can fumble a task that will leave a busy lead carpenter exasperated and frustrated. 

A good lead carpenter will take ownership over their apprentices success and ask themselves "what part of my instructions failed the new guy" rather than asking themselves "whats wrong with that new guy?".


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Mcjarod said:


> As a young lead carpenter (19 yr old). Leading multi million dollar homes and building projects, and putting on my bags every single day to surpass expectations as often as I can muster.
> 
> I can attest to a lack of accountability and a surplus of abuse in the workplace. And yes that’s common, and yes I deal with it from my superiors, but I personally try to be opposite, it’s true that people don’t work harder for someone that doesn’t respect them. I’ve had people get hurt on the job because they were angry or emotional because of irrational attitudes and overall an unprofessional outlook. I try to make the site as enjoyable and respectful as possible (while of course having banter and jokes, this is still framing guys)
> 
> ...



I have noticed that you think very highly of yourself.

Just saying.

Andy.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Stunt Carpenter said:


> One thing that I find a lot of new guys don’t realize is that a lot of Job site talk it direct and to the point for efficiency sake.
> It’s not being an ass when you say “pass me that tool”, just more efficient than “can you please pass me that tool”.
> I’ve seen a lot of people get bent out of shape over that little difference



True.


We may have to ask a new helper for a tool.

But if you have to even ask an experienced helper for a tool, you aren’t training him well. It’s on you. If you additionally feel the need to yell at him, you’re not half as good as you think you are.


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## RCR (Feb 25, 2019)

TBH it sounds like you need to start your own business or move on from the trades. I've worked in all kinds of trash situations on cell towers, stadiums, bridges, dams, etc. I've worked with people of all types and while I think most of the BS talk is not meant to truly be demeaning, I never liked it and always stood my ground. 

Some people, myself included, just don't want to hear the smack talk all day. It gets irritating. There's undoubtedly a line that has to be drawn to stay professional, but you should be able to enjoy the work along the way. I got tired of the revolving door of insane leads (after the military I traveled for work, ended up on tons of different crews and got the privilege of seeing all those different leadership styles). I was highly qualified, certified at the highest level in my skill, and just had to admit that it was time for me to start my own business. 

Having worked for myself for a while now, I've screwed up plenty. I've developed people the wrong way, hired the wrong lead, blundered the work environment in ways I didn't expect. However, I'd never go back to working for someone else again. What it's taught me is that the people I used to work for probably only knew that one way of leading, and they just trudged forward. If you want to make some changes to the culture, start your own, make some new mistakes, and find the balance you want. You'll be happier and more successful. and....... there will probably be a guy on this forum in a few years talking about quitting your crew because it's too soft. It's just the way people are.


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