# SawStop sues Bosch



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/tabl...)&he=18e49a2db84513464ac98ef5ca9796c6f3ee371e


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

F**k Sawstop. After trying to force everyone to use their product and going nowhere with that, they are pissed someone came up with a design that actually works better. Just makes me want to buy the Bosch that much more.


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## brhokel606 (Mar 7, 2014)

I can't see how Sawstop could sue over it, it opperates differently. Just a stupid tactic to keep Bosch from selling it for right now I think.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I think saw stop owns the idea


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

Delete


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbDf2dpQVIY


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Californiadecks said:


> I think saw stop owns the idea


I'm being serous, I didn't know you could own an idea.

I thought you could only "own" or patent the technology - or blueprints -that brings your idea to fruition.

If someone had the same idea but used a different - or better - way to achieve the goal it would be a different product.

Like all tools. Say the circular saw, all makers of the saw have the same idea just a different way of achieving that goal.


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## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

Sounds to me like Saw Stop is just pissed off that somebody came up with a better mousetrap, as it were, and probably less expensive too.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I did a quick check. FWIW, what a company owns is the claims in their patents, if that. According to one article I read, Sawstop amended a patent when they found out that PTI was patenting a different method. The amendment covered PTI's approach.


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

I have no respect for the Saw Stop company---Glad to see some competition--

They are not the first company that tried to lobby the government to mandate that their product must be purchased----and won't be the last--let them rot.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

TheGrizz said:


> Sounds to me like Saw Stop is just pissed off that somebody came up with a better mousetrap, as it were, and probably less expensive too.


PTI / Bosch approach doesn't destroy the blade and uses something like a cheap Ramset cartridge. saves maybe $80 plus a blade.


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## TheGrizz (Sep 16, 2011)

hdavis said:


> PTI / Bosch approach doesn't destroy the blade and uses something like a cheap Ramset cartridge. saves maybe $80 plus a blade.



Exactly my point. Bosch came up with a better method to achieve the same ends, and I'm sure the upfront cost of the saw is probably less than the saw stop.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

I can only imagine what kind of legal team a company that does over $50B in revenue can put together.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

Bosch would be expecting this from Saw Stop considering the moves Gass has made in the past. It'll be nice to have some competition.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Screw sawstop. Good for Bosch. Hope they win & put a hurt on SS.


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

I lost ALL respect for sawstop and it's patent holder Gass when he tried to force his saw onto everyone. I actually liked the idea and looked seriously into getting a saw stop probably almost 10 years ago now. Gass came up with a good idea but the way he went about it was wrong in my opinion. He essentially lobbied to make every saw sold in the US be mandated to have his saw stop feature. I'm glad he lost that pursuit and will be glad when he losses this lawsuit. 

The bosch saw looks a million times better. It doesn't trash the blade. Not sure on the bosch cost or what it costs each time the device is triggered to reset but I know the saw stop trashes the blade and is pretty expensive for a new trigger part.


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## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

From a live demo I watched online they said it costs $100 per cartridge and it can be used twice. Also the time spent resetting it is minimal. A couple minutes and it's up and running again.


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## TLHWindows (Jan 5, 2012)

Looked into SS a long time ago but never bought it because of the price. 

Companies with patents like SS annoy me. I think it hinders growth. What may happen is that the courts may order Bosch to pay SS a royalty if it sticks.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

So Sawstop thinks they own the "idea" that to save a finger, you stop the saw blade? 

Did the maker of ABS or airbag technology do the same thing?


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

Youngin' said:


> From a live demo I watched online they said it costs $100 per cartridge and it can be used twice. Also the time spent resetting it is minimal. A couple minutes and it's up and running again.


That's not too bad compared to saw stop. Saw stop was something like 75 bucks last time I checked and a one time use and it trashes a blade which most of mine are in the 50 and up range.

I think Gass is just upset bosch came out with what seems to be a better design and he won't be the only fish in the pond anymore.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

It really hinges on how long they've been shipping their product which incorporates the claimed IP before they amended their patent. I think you have 12 months for the US patent system, and 0 months in a lot of other countries. I think their broader amended claim will get thrown out, so Bosch will be selling saws with their technology. 

The usual tactic is to try to keep them from being imported until the patent case is decided, and to drag out the case.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

jb4211 said:


> I'm being serous, I didn't know you could own an idea.


"
A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required.
"

http://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

hdavis said:


> "
> A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required.
> "
> 
> http://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents


Good thing other tablesaw mfgrs. didn't stop Sawstop for using their idea to make a tablesaw... :whistling


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

From your link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_International_Trade_Commission
I doubt these guys have any authority.

"*After years of denying the* need for active injury mitigation technology on table saws, Bosch has announced that it intends to release a table saw that incorporates numerous inventions developed and patented by SawStop."

NASA bought a piece of computer hardware. It had problems. *After years of the salesman denying that the* problems were real, Version 2 came out which the company now says solves all of the problems of the first one which the salesman denied we were having.

The games don't change, only the names of the people playing.

Bosch now has the advantage of not repeating SS's mistakes. This scenario is right out of a Game Theory book. 

I guess Bosch can't be sued for hypocrisy.

Having read their book on Automotive Electronics I had some respect for Bosch. :thumbsup: I shouldn't have. :sad:

The U.S. Patent Quarterly probably has the behind-the-scenes stuff about SS, but this journal costs.
BTW, the intermittent windshield wipers invention had about six lawyers on each side, so you knew this fight was for some big bucks.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Is there a credible source for that wiki article?


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I think SawStop had a great idea, but they lost me in the lobbying bit to force a mandate. I believe in letting the market determine products, not congress.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> I'm being serous, I didn't know you could own an idea.
> 
> I thought you could only "own" or patent the technology - or blueprints -that brings your idea to fruition.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup: makes sense


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Saw stop just made me hate them more


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i don't hate anybody..


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> i don't hate anybody..


You don't hate anyone because you've come to fully accept the fact that some people are just bat-sh!t crazy. I heard, that once you're able to do that, it's a little easier to forgive and move on.

I'm still working on it. Seriously. I am.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Tom Struble said:


> i don't hate anybody..


Not true Tom you hate me I can feel it. :laughing:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

never you Mike:no:.............


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> i don't hate anybody..


Then you hate everybody. :thumbsup:


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Then you hate everybody. :thumbsup:


Is that the secret? You hate everyone so you like everyone the same?... :whistling :laughing:


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

Sawstop may have a patent on only a part of the system. Specifically the part that senses the flesh hitting the blade. If Bosch has violated that part, it may be a hard fought battle for them. Bosch may be relying on their size to squeeze out the little guy, but remember that Gass is a patent attorney. 

Gass tried to sell the idea to several manufacturers, including Bosch. When nobody wanted it, he decided to start a company. If Someone at Bosch was shown the technology and then decides to ignore Sawstop and copy the idea for themselves, that would not be cool.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

The touch technology is in the touch light switch. Did Gass steal that?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Rustbucket said:


> Sawstop may have a patent on only a part of the system. Specifically the part that senses the flesh hitting the blade. If Bosch has violated that part, it may be a hard fought battle for them. Bosch may be relying on their size to squeeze out the little guy, but remember that Gass is a patent attorney.


Gass has lots of patents on the sensing part. His claims boil down to using prior art for sensing contact with a person in this particular application. From what I can tell, he missed a key claim in his provisional patent, and went back to add it after Bosch figured out how to do it better than the Sawstop using a different method.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

It's really sad that it's coming down to this. This technology should be able to be developed competitively. It would be great if the price point on saws with this technology could be made more affordable to more people.


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## aaron_a (Dec 18, 2013)

what a jag. the bosch system looks so much better than the saw stop one. someone should cut themselves on a saw then sue sawstop for preventing other companies from making similar technology.


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## BucketofSteam (Jun 16, 2013)

Rustbucket said:


> Sawstop may have a patent on only a part of the system. Specifically the part that senses the flesh hitting the blade. If Bosch has violated that part, it may be a hard fought battle for them. Bosch may be relying on their size to squeeze out the little guy, but remember that Gass is a patent attorney.
> 
> Gass tried to sell the idea to several manufacturers, including Bosch. When nobody wanted it, he decided to start a company. If Someone at Bosch was shown the technology and then decides to ignore Sawstop and copy the idea for themselves, that would not be cool.


He might be a patent attorney but Bosch is a huge company able to afford many attorneys.


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