# Non union jobsite (quaker church)vandalized in philadelphia $500,000 Damage



## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

MKnAs Dad said:


> You don't know what you ar talking about. If you are non-union, you can't possibly know how to do anything!!!
> Funny, but of all the carpenters that I know, the lowest quality ones are union, the best ones are non union. Now I am not saying that all union carpenters are crap, but the ones I know and all the companies I see around do a horrible job.
> The best plumber that I have seen, is union. He also is not the
> 
> "Unions are the best thing ever! If you say anything bad about the unions, I am going to get butt-hurt and cry!" union worker like someone above here :whistling:whistling:whistling:whistling


Then you must not know too many non union guys. All the illeagals who cant speak english and work for next to nothing (usually cash under the table) are non union guys.

There are amazing master carpenters who have never worked a day in their life for a union contractor.

But they usually own there own company or they work as an employee for 30 an hour no bennefits:no:

Union or non union working in the private sector carrying health ins and some type of retirement so your not going to be a burden to society. Your cool in my book:thumbsup:


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## pmrcco (Jan 16, 2013)

Chris Johnson said:


> http://news.ca.msn.com/local/toront...nto-construction-union-official-says-2#scptid



Oh and this about the Laborers,.... what's news about them....if someone isnt stealing their pension then something else is going on with them. 

We are talking skilled tradesmen, thats all. no f'n teachers, no illegal hotel workers, or teamsters.

As I was told a few years after joining the Union, by a 30 year veteran," in the hall brothers all, on the job f'em all "

This ain't communism, its capitalism, I make my own contract for work, the union contract is just the base.

You have probably never run a job worth millions in just carpentry work, the bonuses that I have received for working my guys hard has always been sweet, and unlike you I disperse some of that to the deserving. My guys know I'm an A'hole, but they also know I'll keep them working.


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## pmrcco (Jan 16, 2013)

detroit687 said:


> T
> 
> There are amazing master carpenters who have never worked a day in their life for a union contractor.


Oh great someonwe else who hire illegals.....

*Hiring illegals = domestic terrorism*


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

pmrcco said:


> You have no Idea about million dollar projects with 700 page specs, and 300 page drawings.



You might want to do a background check on me prior to your above accusation.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

pmrcco said:


> You dont know what your talking about, those unions you site are not trade unions, first. Second if you dont do what is in the contract documents then your negligent and should be sued for non-compliance to the same documents.
> 
> Your full of stuff. to be nice about it. You have no Idea about million dollar projects with 700 page specs, and 300 page drawings. You may be able to build a custom porch or even a house. But when someone designs something that has to be built who does it, you and your trained in the truck crew or a crew that has been trained and certified by the manufacturer to install their product,.....and actually get a warranty out of it too.
> 
> ...


Your ignorant.

And sound like an azzhole.

Why don't you chill out.


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

My brain is leaking out of my ears.

Someone, anyone, please form a coherent sentence.


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## mastersplinter (Nov 23, 2012)

i know a carpenter with long hair...his name was jesus...he also had piercings on his hands and feet...


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

dave_k said:


> At the same time the UBC is adding 200,000 SF of training floor to their already huge training center in las Vegas where us UBC trainers go to learn to teach https://www.carpenters.org/todays_ubc_top_nav/Ops_Locations/ITC_Main.aspx"/URL]




You ever see that place? It's awesome!


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## dave_k (Sep 28, 2010)

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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

dave_k said:


> I'd love to discuss wages. You go first. What do you pay? Tell me about your pension plan? What benefits do you offer?


I'll bite.

Helpers- $11.00-13.00
Journeyman- $15.00-$18.00
Mechanic- $18.00-$26.00
Superintendent- $28.00-$34.00

Benefits: medical, dental, eye (85% company paid), paid vacation, paid holidays, 401k with company contribution match, safety certification courses

This is in the DELMARVA corridor of the USA. Delaware, Washington, Maryland, Virginia.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

dave_k said:


> I find it offensive and ignorant that you would accuse trade union members to Nazis. The nazis threw union leaders in concentration camps before the went after the Jews The Nazi's were dormant and quiet?!?! Where the hell did you come up with that. The Nazi's marched down the street in brownshirts from their inception, they used to fight commies in the streets in the 1920's. The Muslims and christians are evangelical by nature, Religions don't spread by having their members be quiet door mouses they grow by spreading the word, There has been corruption in politics, religion and business since civilization began
> 
> Each of these groups were/are large. For the most part the majority of these groups were quiet people, only a small percentage thought they were better then anyone else...you missed the point. The unions are much the same, most are quiet reserved guys, do there job without issue...then there's the rest, the abusers.
> 
> ...



So, I guess you stick to your union...we will stay out...as per the employees last discussion, they are quite happy without you


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## detroit687 (Sep 4, 2008)

pmrcco said:


> Oh great someonwe else who hire illegals.....
> 
> *Hiring illegals = domestic terrorism*


So you must be a little illiterate.

I own a union commercial carpentry company out of local 687
There has to be two sides of the coin, as long as skilled tradesman make a decent wage with insurance and some type of retirement great. The sad truth is there are allot of carpenters out there in there late fiftys with nothing and no way to ever retire. And this is not the career to be in that situation. 

On the other hand there are allot of retarded union guys that think they speak for every member. I have no problem competitively bidding against non union shops. 

Its the fly by night, non insured companys that I think we can all agree are not good for anyone.


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## MKnAs Dad (Mar 20, 2011)

detroit687 said:


> So you must be a little illiterate._*I don't think that he is illiterate, but comprehension???*_
> 
> I own a union commercial carpentry company out of local 687
> There has to be two sides of the coin, as long as skilled tradesman make a decent wage with insurance and some type of retirement great. The sad truth is there are allot of carpenters out there in there late fiftys with nothing and no way to ever retire. And this is not the career to be in that situation.
> ...


My kind of Union guy!!!


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## Dustincoc (Sep 14, 2011)

detroit687 said:


> So you must be a little illiterate.
> 
> I own a union commercial carpentry company out of local 687
> There has to be two sides of the coin, as long as skilled tradesman make a decent wage with insurance and some type of retirement great. The sad truth is there are allot of carpenters out there in there late fiftys with nothing and no way to ever retire. And this is not the career to be in that situation.
> ...


:rockon:


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## olligator (Nov 23, 2007)

pmrcco said:


> If those guys didnt speak english they werent citizens. shouldnt be here.


If they were legal they had just as much right to be here as anyone else. Is it because they might have been speaking Spanish? What if they had been speaking Italian or German? By your logic that implies that half of New Jersey is the anchor babies of non-citizen immigrants and therefore shouldn't be here either? 

Never forget that you live in a country founded by immigrants and that your forefathers probably faced the same discrimination speaking the language of their homeland. Be default that means you're an anchor baby, or the great grandchild of an anchor baby, and maybe you shouldn't be here then.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Saw this on the news yesterday, all union workers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...led-graffiti-covers-new-wtc-article-1.1249195

I'm sure Dave will say they are all wonderful family men


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## hammerone40 (May 13, 2012)

rrk said:


> Saw this on the news yesterday, all union workers.
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/racist-sexist-slur-filled-graffiti-covers-new-wtc-article-1.1249195
> 
> I'm sure Dave will say they are all wonderful family men


 I love how mature the hard hats are. Unfortunately the professionals writing the story loose a lot of credibility .... it is a STEEL beam not one that has been stolen.


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## Bozer (Mar 3, 2012)

Mud Master said:


> That's the union.
> 
> I've told this story before, but back in the early 00's I was awarded work on a renovation of an old Hecht company at a Mall. My contract was to demolish all the split faced block veneer and install the curtain wall for the new storefront including installation of all exterior structural studs and welding of all deflection clips and steel to concrete shelf angles.
> 
> ...


Just stumbled upon this thread. God knows whether the guys who cut those lines just meant to deter or actually harm the guys doing the masonry, but as much as they might have seemed happy or proud about it, I'm 100% sure their conscience is stained by the blood of those they hurt and they will carry that toll until the confess what they have done.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Mud Master said:


> I'll bite.
> 
> Helpers- $11.00-13.00
> Journeyman- $15.00-$18.00
> ...


I am union in pittsburgh here is our pay scale
1st year apprentice 16 and change
2nd year 19 and change
3rd year 22and change
4th year 25 and change
journeyman 29.70
foreman 1 31 and change
supers 33 and change but most have a contract with a specific compayny and get paid much more

benes are health 100% employer, dental and vision are 100% employee, anuity funds, and pension 
total package for a journeyman is about 46/hr


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## StrongBuilding (Mar 25, 2013)

Well, since I'm all 3 things under discussion in this thread I may as well weigh in. 1 I'm a Christian
2 I'm a non union carpenter +
3 I'm a vested Union Laborer. 
I work union work for Union Contractors on highway and oil 
I got my start in the union by a great guy that sponsored me and put me thru the Drillers course running rock drills . Never did any drilling for a union outfit yet tho. 
With Big companies oil and gas, highway builders I wouldn't want to work for them without the union backing me, corrupt, crooked, greedy, cut throat. The most morally reprobate people I've met were the higher ups in these companies. Having the union on my side is comforting . 
I keep jobs laboring by out working the 25 year holds. And not getting hurt, being on time and putting in the full day. I don't work any harder on any job than I do on a union job. And the proof is that I get dispatches for me specifically.
But I grew up working hard and had a good career as a timber faller in S.E. Alaska. Before I ever joined the union. 
Yes the thot of some union punk sabotaging a church building project enrages me same as it would if they wernt union. And I have seen lots of lazy culls in the hall. I just don't hang around them, too busy working.


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## StrongBuilding (Mar 25, 2013)

Big problem I see is not enough people Like to work Hard. On the North Slope the unions have to compete for the contracts with non union companies. There's a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on sometimes when u drive by a highway construction job and a laborer is leaning on a shovel. And if anyone wants to run their gob about it come and lay pipe with me for a while. See how you do running a jumpin jack all day working 7-12 s.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

olligator said:


> If they were legal they had just as much right to be here as anyone else. Is it because they might have been speaking Spanish? What if they had been speaking Italian or German? By your logic that implies that half of New Jersey is the anchor babies of non-citizen immigrants and therefore shouldn't be here either?
> 
> Never forget that you live in a country founded by immigrants and that your forefathers probably faced the same discrimination speaking the language of their homeland. Be default that means you're an anchor baby, or the great grandchild of an anchor baby, and maybe you shouldn't be here then.


Well your a doof:blink: My forefathers came here legally as did my wife It cost me a lot of time and money to not break the law! We are a nation of laws if you break the laws you should be punished not rewarded!!!! How is it we can have Americans in prison for breaking a law when non Americans are rewarded for breaking the law:blink: 



ubcguy89 said:


> I am union in pittsburgh here is our pay scale
> 1st year apprentice 16 and change
> 2nd year 19 and change
> 3rd year 22and change
> ...


Dude that's a bad idea:no: The union may come looking for you. It's not secret but they don't advertise you know:whistling




Am all for a man making enough money to have a life but the union seems to like to suck on me like a leach I do like working on prevailing wage jobs over here:thumbsup: It's up to 59.63 per hour now:thumbsup:


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