# Setting a toilet



## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Well, upon further inspection it seems the supply was leaking at the toilet connection. I took that out and cleaned everything up and reinstalled everything. Which basically means lefty loosey, righty tighty. So far so good. I'm hoping the connection was the issue and not the seal. Unfortunately the floor is wet under the toilet. I guess it will dry eventually.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

X2 on a lot of pointers - I won't get into the ring on the fixture vs ring on the flange debate.

Besides cleaning off the wax from both surfaces before putting a new ring on, you have to make sure it's all dry.

The other thing I didn't see mentioned is if you rock it side to side or back to front when you install, the seal is most likely going to break and it will leak. I always sit on the lid while I'm tightening these down. Tighten pretty good, keep sitting - the bolts will loosen again if you have a thick ring. Tighten again. When it stops moving, you're done, but the bolts have to be tight. Recheck after it has been used a time or two. If it loosened up, you didn't get it all the way down.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Morning Wood said:


> Well, upon further inspection it seems the supply was leaking at the toilet connection. I took that out and cleaned everything up and reinstalled everything. Which basically means lefty loosey, righty tighty. So far so good. I'm hoping the connection was the issue and not the seal. Unfortunately the floor is wet under the toilet. I guess it will dry eventually.


Seals won't leak continuously, only when the toilet is flushed or when the water is running through it due to a leaky flapper valve or whatever you have. If this was just pooling water without being flushed, then it wasn't a leaky wax ring seal.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

hdavis said:


> X2 on a lot of pointers - I won't get into the ring on the fixture vs ring on the flange debate.
> 
> Besides cleaning off the wax from both surfaces before putting a new ring on, you have to make sure it's all dry.
> 
> The other thing I didn't see mentioned is if you rock it side to side or back to front when you install, the seal is most likely going to break and it will leak. I always sit on the lid while I'm tightening these down. Tighten pretty good, keep sitting - the bolts will loosen again if you have a thick ring. Tighten again. When it stops moving, you're done, but the bolts have to be tight. Recheck after it has been used a time or two. If it loosened up, you didn't get it all the way down.


A little OCD there? After old wax is scraped off, it's dry and fine enough.

Right about the rocking. Front to back rocking is especially bad. If that exists, shim the front first (not the back).


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> A little OCD there? After old wax is scraped off, it's dry and fine enough.
> 
> Right about the rocking. Front to back rocking is especially bad. If that exists, shim the front first (not the back).


Definitely OCD about setting toilets - I've done way too much floor repair due to leaks. I also put so much wax on that it covers the edge of the flooring (yup, I put it on the flange). Hand shaped - once it's set, it's just shy of having squeeze out. Break the seal and it's going to come out onto the floor surface, but the subfloor is going to stay dry.

I don't like setting toilets and repairing subfloors, so I try to only do it once.....


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I'll throw a few things in here, and I've replaced numerous bathroom floors that were water damaged, and set more toilets than I can remember.

So, in no particular order, here goes:

Please don't stack wax rings. They are not designed to be used that way. If you need more wax, get the thick ring.

Too much wax can clog the discharge. More wax is not better, the right amount is.

Make sure the wax is warm before trying to set the toilet.

CLEAN the flange thoroughly, before setting the toilet.

The flange should not sit below the finish floor. If it does, get an extender, don't try to bring it up with wax. The flange should sit just proud of the floor.

If you are pulling a toilet, it's easiest to take off the tank, and install new tank to bowl hardware and gaskets. Better install, as well. You should also ALWAYS use new mounting hardware. I usually replace the supply at the same time, as well. It's about 15 dollars worth of hardware. Well worth it.

It makes no difference if the wax is set on the toilet, or the flange, except that's it difficult to keep it on the toilet, so I always set it on the flange. And my installs don't leak.

GENTLY tighten the bolts. Then sit on the toilet, and rock GENTLY. If the wax is warm, it will slowly settle down, like it should. Then tighten some more. Slowly. Make sure they are tight, and the toilet doesn't move.

Caulking is optional. If you caulk, you'll never know if there is a leak, until the floor rots out. In my experience, it's almost universally done in commercial work, and rarely done in residential. I've never had an inspectigator insist on it in residential.

If the floor is clean and dry, as it should be, turn on the water, and check for leaks. Then flush it a few times. It there is water present before flushing, it's not the wax ring, it's something else. If it seeps everytime it is flushed, and can sit for hours with no seepage, it's the wax ring.

Hope this helps.




Delta


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I'll throw a few things in here, and I've replaced numerous bathroom floors that were water damaged, and set more toilets than I can remember.
> 
> So, in no particular order, here goes:
> 
> ...


Bingo! 

I second on stacking. No need to. If it's that low you should at least install a repair flange to raise the flange. 

I like the insert ones that you tighten the three screws to spread the rubber gasket seal. I then caulk around the flange. It just keeps as much water from going down and instead helps direct it out so you can see the leak.

#10 wax rings if you need a bit beefier ring.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Bingo!
> 
> I second on stacking. No need to. If it's that low you should at least install a repair flange to raise the flange.
> 
> ...


Those are a code violation in Illinois.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

So the newer style seals neoprene /plastic/o-ring ? Are not taking the place of wax rings? I used them twice , I think they modified since then.

Also is the standard recess under the bowl 1/2" for the seal area? Wax ring thickness? Standards are thin, so some measuring calculations need to be taken into account depending where the flange is at. I would think 3/8" would be the distance to start compressing the wax to ensure a good seal.

Dry the entire area, then put toilet paper down to easily spot leaks, rechecking 1/2 hour later for supply line, tank to bowl,and flange


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> Those are a code violation in Illinois.


Oh yeah I forgot about you. By the book Charlie. Making something on paper a code violation just means the unions got their lobbyists to the right people.

Romex is a code violation in Naperville, but go 10 miles south and its everywhere.

Saniflo toilets are a code violation, but ejector pits are not. Gotta love Illinois.

EDIT: installed one in my house four years ago and haven't had a problem. Aside from the paper infraction and the fact you don't need a plumber to install, why wouldn't you use one?


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> Those are a code violation in Illinois.



I once picked my nose in Chicago and received a code violation.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

slowsol said:


> I once picked my nose in Chicago and received a code violation.


I've seen your nose so yeah.

j/k:jester:


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## colevalleytim (Mar 1, 2008)

Can I add a question to this discussion.

How do you guys know how tight to tighten the floor mounting bolts?

Is it feel or is there a torque setting?

I've always worked by feel, but live in fear of breaking a toilet.

thanks


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

colevalleytim said:


> Can I add a question to this discussion.
> 
> How do you guys know how tight to tighten the floor mounting bolts?
> 
> ...


"Feel", as in "quite snug" if that makes sense. You won't crack it unless you tighten the heck out of it, in most cases. If one addresses any wobbles first, they won't feel the need to overtighten. Also, a dry run (no wax) is a great way to see where it may need some shimming. If you're setting on tile, it helps to shim and caulk the base, at least front and sides, to keep it from rotating.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

My take is you seat the bowl down as far as it can go. I like grout for any fill under the bowl to prevent any rocking loosening/compromising seal. So after that is accomplished, the nuts are just snugged up to prevent from going upward, not to pull down and crack. 

The torque wrench approach would be too low an amount or too risky maybe. Small wrench so you can feel torque/pressure.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

colevalleytim said:


> Can I add a question to this discussion.
> 
> How do you guys know how tight to tighten the floor mounting bolts?
> 
> ...


I've seen broken PVC flanges before cracked toilets, too. Another reason not to overtighten.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Best shims out there. Shim as necessary, trim easily with a utility knife. 

Plumb Pak Pp836-55 Toilet Shims Soft


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## platinumLLC (Nov 18, 2008)

Toilet setting isn't rocket science but there is a science to it. It's been explained pretty good already. But my process is to make sure the flange is the correct height. This will eliminate 99% of your problems. Like almost all other parts of construction prep is key. Make sure the flange is in good shape and at right height and cleaned good. If not fix first. Then use the correct wax ring, not the crap ones that come with those cheap toilets. Also make sure you are using good bolts and the flange is good where the bolts go. Set the toilet and gently rock to squeeze the wax down. Don't go crazy, some downward pressure and a very little side to side rocking is all you need. Once it is close to the floor and you know you have compressed the wax good then you can tighten up the bolts. Do this evenly, not one side all the way and then the other. Once they are tight and you have felt the wax smush then I shim the toilet if needed. I use the clear rubber shims made for this. Stick them in and then tighten the toilet down a little more if needed. Then trim the shims. I personally don't caulk most toilets unless the floor is uneven and looks like crap. But if I do caulk I will leave the back 2" or so uncaulked. 

That's my way and it works for me. The feel for the wax ring smushing and how tight to bolt the toilet down is something you get the feel for over time. I've done a few hundred toilets in the last couple decades and like anything else it's something you just get the feel for.


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## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Oh yeah I forgot about you. By the book Charlie. Making something on paper a code violation just means the unions got their lobbyists to the right people.
> 
> Romex is a code violation in Naperville, but go 10 miles south and its everywhere.
> 
> ...


Do you inform your clients when you decide to ignore codes or do you just do it and collect your money?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> Do you inform your clients when you decide to ignore codes or do you just do it and collect your money?


I collect the money first


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