# 15A receptacles on a 20A circuit



## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Is installation of 15A receptacles on 20A breaker/12g wiring ok? 

If yes, does it make a difference if it's pigtailed or wired via the receptacles screw block (does it have a name)? 

reason: appears the new building at our church was built with 20A breakers/wiring and 15A receptacles-I've been tracing the circuits and labeling them and wonder if this is an issue.

Additional quesiton: some of the panels were labeled as LP1, LP2 or PP1, PP2: what does the LP and PP designation stand for? LP1 and PP1 each have a large mixture of receptacles and lighting mixed in...all of the AHU's and CU's are in one LP panels. Is there any standard convention in commercial settings?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

If it's a single receptacle, and that's all there is on that circuit, then it must match the breaker size. 210.21(B)(1).

Otherwise, 15a receps on a 20a circuit is perfectly legal.


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## jbfan (Apr 1, 2004)

In my plant the PP means a 480/277 volt panel, and the LP means a 120/208 volt panel.


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## paul hardy (Sep 22, 2008)

pp usually stands for power panel and lp stands for lighting panel they are also usually different voltages.


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## sundance 2 (Mar 5, 2010)

only in residential apllication for 15 amp commercial installation requires outlet to be 20 amp if wiring is #12 look under receptacles in the code


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

sundance 2 said:


> only in residential apllication for 15 amp commercial installation requires outlet to be 20 amp if wiring is #12 look under receptacles in the code


 
Can you scrounge up a reference on that one?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> only in residential apllication for 15 amp commercial installation requires outlet to be 20 amp if wiring is #12 look under receptacles in the code


I didn't know...interesting.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> I didn't know...interesting.


 
New one on me, too. I don't see it anywhere........ unless he's using a different NEC than me.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> New one on me, too. I don't see it anywhere........ unless he's using a different NEC than me.


I'm looking for it too right now.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I scoured 210 and other places and cant find it. Maybe a local requirement?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> ........ Maybe a local requirement?


 
Or else he's had it on so many recent specifications that it's 'become code'...... like 100' max conduit runs, no wire nuts in a panel, ampacity of 12 THHN is 20...... you know... all the Articles of the Urban Legend Electrical Code.


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Hmm, I am told 14 is okay for a bdrm. I rewired two rooms with it. Few months old flat panel went bad. this tv was plugged into the same rec as the wife use for the hair dryer. I looked and I think the dryer pulls like 14 amps by itself. I looked it up somewhere and do not remember now how much, but these tv's pull more amp's than I was aware of. The rec was burned on one side. I admit, I think I failed to change the breaker to 15 amps at the time, but she no longer drys her hair in that room. She uses another room(3rd) I rewired with 12 g and 20 amp circuit. I had never use 14 before, doubt I ever will agin for rec's.

She called Walmart and complained about the trv going out when it was only a few months old, actually out of warranty. They finally agreed to replace it. I sort of quilty about that as I believe the wiring caused it.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

boman47k said:


> Hmm, I am told 14 is okay for a bdrm. I rewired two rooms with it. Few months old flat panel went bad. this tv was plugged into the same rec as the wife use for the hair dryer. I looked and I think the dryer pulls like 14 amps by itself. I looked it up somewhere and do not remember now how much, but these tv's pull more amp's than I was aware of. The rec was burned on one side.* I admit, I think I failed to change the breaker to 15 amps at the time*, but she no longer drys her hair in that room. She uses another room(3rd) I rewired with 12 g and 20 amp circuit. I had never use 14 before, doubt I ever will agin for rec's.
> 
> She called Walmart and complained about the trv going out when it was only a few months old, actually out of warranty. They finally agreed to replace it. I sort of quilty about that as I believe the wiring caused it.


 
So, you're abandoning a safe wiring method because you didn't change a breaker to a size that would have prevented damage to the circuit?


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

boman47k said:


> Hmm, I am told 14 is okay for a bdrm. I rewired two rooms with it. Few months old flat panel went bad. this tv was plugged into the same rec as the wife use for the hair dryer. I looked and I think the dryer pulls like 14 amps by itself. I looked it up somewhere and do not remember now how much, but these tv's pull more amp's than I was aware of. The rec was burned on one side. I admit, I think I failed to change the breaker to 15 amps at the time, but she no longer drys her hair in that room. She uses another room(3rd) I rewired with 12 g and 20 amp circuit. I had never use 14 before, doubt I ever will agin for rec's.
> 
> She called Walmart and complained about the trv going out when it was only a few months old, actually out of warranty. They finally agreed to replace it. I sort of quilty about that as I believe the wiring caused it.


I remember that thread. This is a slightly different issue though. The question is more about what type of receptacle is required.

480 and I can find no requirement in the NEC about what a previous poster (#5) stated (not the OP btw) We are sticking with our answers unless we can see some code that states otherwise.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> I admit, I think I failed to change the breaker to 15 amps at the time


Next time use your brain.

I had a woman who called me over to fix her alarm system, she said if she used her iron and her hairdryer her alarm system would go off....interesting. So she plugs in an iron and a hair dryer and turns them on and the smoke detector goes off until she turns off one or the other. I said "this is a high-voltage smoke, it is not connected to your alarm system, call your electrician and have him take a look at it. She then asked me why and I said "well you are plugging two high-current devices into one outlet, i'm suprised its not tripping the breaker" she stopped me there with "but a hair dryer and an iron are small and don't draw much power!"


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

I want to know I have enough amperage to handle a hairdryer, flat screen, couple of lamps, air circulator, vacuum cleaner, electronic game, computer and maybe a power tool if I ever need to for whatever reason.

To me, with all the things we use on a circuit, the min req's just do not seem enough.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

boman47k said:


> I want to know I have enough amperage to handle a hairdryer, flat screen, couple of lamps, air circulator, vacuum cleaner, electronic game, computer and maybe a power tool if I ever need to for whatever reason.
> 
> To me, with all the things we use on a circuit, the min req's just do not seem enough.


Perhaps not. There is nothing wrong with upgrading to 12awg in a bedroom, but by code it's not required. That's all I am saying. (Power tool in a bedroom?-Ok I didn't ask:clap


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> Perhaps not. There is nothing wrong with upgrading to 12awg in a bedroom, but by code it's not required. That's all I am saying. *(Power tool in a bedroom?-Ok I didn't ask:clap*


*
*
Most of that stuff is battery powered now a day's...:jester:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

JumboJack said:


> [/b]
> Most of that stuff is battery powered now a day's...:jester:


:laughing: That's exactly why I am not asking!

Just playing with you boman!


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I'l check my code book if I find it.....its been packed in a box from when I moved for over a year.:laughing:

I'm pretty sure here the outlets on a 20A circuit have to be feed-through rated for 20A unlike in the US where there only has to be more then one duplex...but the commercial thing is new to me...


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