# 2006 Code Question



## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

Do vent lights in bathrooms now have to be ducted through the roof or can they be vented through the soffit? According to 2006 building code.

Also who's responsible for this electrical or HVAC? It is installed by electricians but they won't vent it, and HVAC guys take no responsibility for this. And neither one has a clue about it as far as code goes. The plumbers have said that they believe that they must be vented through the roof but of course they don't deal with that and don't know the code for it.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

Your profile says your a GC. You are probably not going to like this, but I say you are responsible to do it. You are the one who sold the finished product to the customer. Now take some of that sale and go pay either the hvac man or the electrician to do it, or do it with one of your crew.:whistling


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## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

I agree that the GC is responsible. If there is no GC on the job it gets worked out between the mechanical trades. Usually by the rock-paper-scissors method.


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## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

Yep, I am the GC and do agree that it is my responsibility. I just can't get a strait answer from anyone on the actual Code requriements. I'd be more than happy to pay someone to do it if I could get verification on what will pass for the close wall (the HVAC guys won't call for the inspection untill the vents are run but they say since they don't install them they don't run the ducts, yeah they suck and I will not be using them again or letting them finish this job) and since I build in New Orleans I can forget asking a code official unless I want to go downtown and try to see one in person (No one answers the phone only a message that says for expidited service please come in person, hows that for service?) They have just made the 06 code the standard and this is my first project since the change (the electrical changes are crazy but wont come into effect until later this year, all outlets to be GFI and tamperproof talk about expensive!). Anyway since no one knows the answer it looks like I will have to take a trip downtown.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

The code says "to the exterior". Simply laying the hose in the soffet won't satisfy that requirement. You need a proper vent cap, whether that's in the roof, in the soffet, or in the gable end, it doesn't matter, but the actual termination must be on the exterior. If you want the actual code citation, I can look it up for you.


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## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks, I knew I needed a vent cap for the flex but was worried about having so many pentrations of the roof as you can not combine and vent through a single jack, but going out of the soffit makes things easy. Thanks.:clap:


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Maderan said:


> Thanks, I knew I needed a vent cap for the flex but was worried about having so many pentrations of the roof as you can not combine and vent through a single jack, but going out of the soffit makes things easy. Thanks.:clap:


They make special vent caps for the soffet, if you want to use one, that is only maybe 1" tall, and has slots around all four sides and the face is flat. I forget who makes it off the top of my head, but maybe you're familiar with them already? Most of the siding guys seem to be familiar with them since they generally get a couple delivered, color matched, with their siding delivery. Of course, there's nothing wrong with using a "dryer vent" type vent cap, upside down in the soffet, as long as it's the type with a spring on the damper.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

The one I was talking about that is good to use upside down in the soffet is made by Mid-America Siding Components. In my area, the lumber chain "John H Myers & Son" sells this brand. It's on page 16 of this catalog PDF. They call it a "master intake/exhaust".

http://www.midamericacomponents.com/PDF/ma_products_catalog.pdf

It's the tan one at 3 o'clock in this picture:


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## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

Yep, those are the exact ones we use. I have always had a problem with the venting of these things, sometimes even the insulation guy has done them and no one wants to take responsibiity for them even though they fall under the Mechanical inspection.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Maderan said:


> Yep, those are the exact ones we use. I have always had a problem with the venting of these things, sometimes even the insulation guy has done them and no one wants to take responsibiity for them even though they fall under the Mechanical inspection.


I know what you mean. In my area, it is traditional for the electrician to vent the bath fans. I just let my hose hang out of the soffet area or the gable end (whichever makes the most sense) and the sidewallers put the right caps on. Very seldom do I need to go out the roof with one, but that's always a last resort. A house with a hip roof and a real skinny soffet would be a good candidate for a roof cap. I've had to take dryers out of roof caps more often, do to the code mandated length limitations. 

My advice to you would be to just tell some trade or another that it's their job to do the venting rather than just waiting to see if someone happens to do it on their own. Truth be told, nobody really wants to do it normally. You gotta tell someone to do it.


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## house bldr (Jul 11, 2006)

If you take it out the soffitt you need to be 4' from a window.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

house bldr said:


> If you take it out the soffitt you need to be 4' from a window.


Code citation, please? 

Plainly put, you're wrong. Not regular bathroom exhaust. A furnace, maybe.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

I don't know about the code on how far it has to be from a window but I sure wouldn't want that vent, in particular, anywhere near my window.


.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> I don't know about the code on how far it has to be from a window but I sure wouldn't want that vent, in particular, anywhere near my window.


Me either, but I just resent people making up stuff and saying it's code.


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## nap (Jan 27, 2008)

Maderan said:


> Also who's responsible for this electrical or HVAC? .


all jobs have a coordination of trades situation in one place or another. This would be similar to an electric water heater. It is the plumbers work until it comes time to power it.; then, it becomes electrical.

Same with an exhaust fan. Actually, the entire install except for the power hook up _should_ be hvac but it usually gets tossed into the electricians package to install but it is still hvac job to run duct.



So, whose contract did you put this work in?


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## house bldr (Jul 11, 2006)

I don't have a current code book, mine is old but our local inspecter tells me that is code,I don't know maybe its a local thing, he says it is so the exhaust doesn't come back in the window, kind of defeats the purpose.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> I know what you mean. In my area, it is traditional for the electrician to vent the bath fans. I just let my hose hang out of the soffet area or the gable end (whichever makes the most sense) and the sidewallers put the right caps on. Very seldom do I need to go out the roof with one, but that's always a last resort. A house with a hip roof and a real skinny soffet would be a good candidate for a roof cap. I've had to take dryers out of roof caps more often, do to the code mandated length limitations.
> 
> My advice to you would be to just tell some trade or another that it's their job to do the venting rather than just waiting to see if someone happens to do it on their own. Truth be told, nobody really wants to do it normally. You gotta tell someone to do it.


 
In may parts I never see them vented through the soffet.
When I put them in, I do it just like all the other idiots do them...run it right up to an attic vent and zip tie it in. If there is no place to vent, I'll supply 8' of 4" flex and tell them to call a roofer, not HVAC. I can do the jack no problem.....but usually a roofer has some kind of warranty on the roof and I want nothing to do with any of that.... Call your roofer ma`am.

Here's my formal take on it:
Sparky installs and wires the unit.
HVAC installs vent ducting.
Roofer terminates to atmophere.


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## 415moto (Jun 6, 2006)

We vent 'em through the roof.
And it falls under the hvac guys watch. Its mechanical and its VENTILATION, wheres the argument? Funny that your hvac guys dont want to touch it, should be listed in the bid/contract..but still. 
M.O. is the same as James above.


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## NICKPAUS (May 11, 2008)

house bldr said:


> If you take it out the soffitt you need to be 4' from a window.


 That is Code according to one inspector I dealt with. He also mentioned if it goes through roof it cannot be below dormer unless 4' away. Makes sense you dont want exhaust blowing back in. Another inspector would not let me use flex duct that came with unit. Said it must be hardpiped with 3 screws at each connection and wrapped with silver tape. Electrician handles them here and roofer or siding-stucco contractor terminates them. My HVAC guy will vent it for a little extra if electrician wont.


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## NICKPAUS (May 11, 2008)

JamesNLA said:


> In may parts I never see them vented through the soffet.
> When I put them in, I do it just like all the other idiots do them...run it right up to an attic vent and zip tie it in.
> 
> You ever deal with building inspectors? Or Bootleg only jobs.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

NICKPAUS said:


> JamesNLA said:
> 
> 
> > In may parts I never see them vented through the soffet.
> ...


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## NICKPAUS (May 11, 2008)

JamesNLA said:


> NICKPAUS said:
> 
> 
> > Don't talk sh*t to me guy, you know nothing about me or how I work.
> ...


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

I'll stay out of the alley fight,
just for a change,
but the reason I rarely run them to
the soffit is that if the roof ventilation
system actually works you are
likely to be drawing the moisture
right back into the attic.
I've also seen bath windows coated
with ice from steam blowing against 
them in the winter.

Don't care about code, I'd rather 
do what's best if I'm gonna waste 
my time anyway.

Still stuck in the 60's.....:whistling
"If you're not part of the solution,
you're part of the problem."


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## Patrick (Apr 12, 2006)

Regardless of who runs the pipe out of the house, how bout doing it BEFORE the sider gets there And to the GC, Yea its gonna cost money if we gotta spend half a day climbing on ladders installing J blocks, and dryer vents, and soffit vents, AFTER the house is sided


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## BICO (Jun 4, 2008)

In my experience the electrician installs the the bath fan and the HVAC contractor vents to the outside. I generally have these quotes in my original bid from the various subtrades. Although, doing either or both yourself is a fairly simple job.


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## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

I think the local HVAC guys here all just aren't worth a crap. I've gone through so many of them that don't know what the hell is correct. It has never been included in any contract locally but it is clearly a mechanical job. In my search yet again for another HVAC guy I will be sure to ask if they do this.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Maderan said:


> In my search yet again for another HVAC guy I will be sure to ask if they do this.


I'm not even sure I'd ask. If I was a GC, I'd just tell them in advance that they're doing it.


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## BICO (Jun 4, 2008)

One problem I have found in the HVAC and electrical contractors sharing the responsibility for the bath fans is that the electrician is generally the last subcontractor I have showing up during rough ins. In this case the fan isnt installed when the HVAC contractor is doing his roughin. In many cases the vent has to be run during the rough ins. In this case I will have the HVAC contractor run the vent to the location leaving extra pipe whether it is hard piped or run in flex. Once the fan is installed I make the cannection to the fan myself.


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## Waco (May 22, 2008)

The GC is responsible for the ducting, the electrician is responsible for the wiring and hanging of the unit. It is usually the HVAC guys who do the ducting.

My GC generally always vents through the soffit or gable, usually with a soffit vent that accepts 3 or four inch pipe or a dryer vent.

It used to be common to run the pipe to within a few feet of a roof vent, but no more.

Next time I talk to them, I'll try to get better information because I really haven't paid that much attention to it.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Once again.
You put in soffit vents to create
positive air flow to vent moisture
*out* of the attic.
Why in the name of Mike would 
you introduce moisture where it
will get sucked right *into* the attic???

The whole concept makes no sense to me.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

neolitic said:


> The whole concept makes no sense to me.


Feel free to put in a code change proposal, because it's legal at the moment.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> Feel free to put in a code change proposal, because it's legal at the moment.


Legal Schmegal! :laughing:
Codes are minimums, the day
I can't out think the inspectors
around here.....
I'd rather do what's right, 
and what common sense tells me,
than meet the minimums.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

neolitic said:


> Legal Schmegal! :laughing:
> Codes are minimums, the day
> I can't out think the inspectors
> around here.....
> ...


Good for you. :thumbsup:


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## Waco (May 22, 2008)

sort of doesn't make any sense... Soffit vents help creat a draft up through the ridge or cap vents to ventilate the attic. Bath fans duct to the outside through soffit vents or caps. The two are utterly unrelated.

They used to "hang" the end of the duct near an existing cap or ridge vent, but no more.


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## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

Don't know if anyone cares anymore but I believe the best solution that meets code is as follows.

Vent everything through the roof through a single penetration, possibly two if the size gets too big. A couple of points after some additional research. Flex connector can only be run 14ft after that you have to convert to solid wall. For every additional vent the roof penetration must be sized up by 1 in (ie 3 vents of three inch combined at a T to the roof would be a five inch penetration). You can also combine the vents with all other venting be it powered or otherwise by sizing it up at a T. Additionally all vents in the home can be combined (multiple water heaters, vents, and HVAC units) and vented through a single penetration the sizing for this can be done based on formulas that your Mechanical inspector should be able to provide you. These penetrations can be done before or after closing the wall as long as the planned terminations are run as far as possible. And further research has shown me that HVAC guys don't no crap about their own codes and although there are some good ones out there who seal their systems properly most just throw them in and don't properly mastic joints and duct boxes leaving owners with leaky systems.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Maderan said:


> Additionally all vents in the home can be combined (multiple water heaters, vents, and HVAC units) and vented through a single penetration ...


Now hang on a minute. You absolutely are not permitted to combine "vents" that exhaust products of combustion with ordinary building ventillation ducts.


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> Now hang on a minute. You absolutely are not permitted to combine "vents" that exhaust products of combustion with ordinary building ventillation ducts.


Lot a people recommending deadly procedures lately, what's going on, is it deadly advice month and I missing out? Because I have a few good ones.


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## homework (May 21, 2008)

You can not combine vents. You cant even combine two bath fan vents, they must be seperate.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

You guys make this way to tough.

The tinner should do his stuff before the sparky so, the way I do it, 

I (the GC) buy and install all vents before the tinner is on the job. The tinner vents them then they get wired.

It works like a charm, everything is done properly, neither the tinner nor the sparky ***** about an extra trip.


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## Maderan (Jan 12, 2006)

In response to comments about this not being legal. Not true according to the most by the book code official in the State of LA. You can combine them all, with proper sizing. Additionally, to the point about combining regular vents with combustiuon vents, you can do it as long as there is a backflow damper at the point of combination not just at the unit. This is coming from an offical who requires that every thing be to the letter of the law.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Maderan said:


> In response to comments about this not being legal. Not true according to the most by the book code official in the State of LA. You can combine them all, with proper sizing. Additionally, to the point about combining regular vents with combustiuon vents, you can do it as long as there is a backflow damper at the point of combination not just at the unit. This is coming from an offical who requires that every thing be to the letter of the law.


:w00t: *WoW!*:blink:


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Maderan said:


> In response to comments about this not being legal. Not true according to the most by the book code official in the State of LA. You can combine them all, with proper sizing. Additionally, to the point about combining regular vents with combustiuon vents, you can do it as long as there is a backflow damper at the point of combination not just at the unit. This is coming from an offical who requires that every thing be to the letter of the law.


Post the actual codes, I don't buy it. Back-flow dampers don't leak? Fail? Leaks or failures could have deadly consequences. Code officials are known for not knowing the code, I'd like to see a code that says it's okay to mix bathroom, kitchen, and combustion vents together in one stinky, greasy and toxic vent.


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