# Damaged Galvalume Standing Seam Roof



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

I have an expensive standing seam roof on my current project. There is also a roof deck sunken into the roof with steel railings (will be painted, not stainless) at the stairs landing.

I told the welding contractor when he was fabricating the railings on site to be sure he laid down heavy protection over the Galvalume to avoid damage from sparks or whatever. He did that.

However, when his bonehead crew finished welding, they removed the tarps and started grinding the fillets and let the spoils from the grinder fly all over the roof. Which I did not notice until today. The project is near the ocean and the moist air has rusted all the little particles and they appear to have reacted with the Galvalume and have left little orange rings and circles and streaks everywhere the steel dust collected and got wet. I brushed them aside and tried window cleaner (all I had on site) to remove this crap but it didn't work.

Anyone have a suggestion as to how to make these rust stains disappear from Galvalume? The roof installer suggested rubbing compound, but I think that will make it worse, leave swirls and such. The manufacturer basically told me I was screwed.
Any ideas?


----------



## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

your screwed.

anything that will eliminate the rust marks will also eliminate the oxidation that's there. You are right, it will look worse, unless you want to rub out the entire roof. 

Best to sweep it clean and let it weather. In time, it will fade.


----------



## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Was it pre-painted metal? A none abrasive rubbing compond is the way to go, I think. Be careful not to burn the finish. It could also work on mill finish. And over-heating the metal can warp it!

I have mill finish galvalum on my sheds that got grinding and even welding spatter from my shop. I was never able to remove it. Turning kinda black now at those places.


----------



## OldNBroken (Feb 8, 2008)

Frank, I think he is saying it's bare galvalume. 

Either way, your mfr was correct. Hopefully it's not in a highly visible area or replace the damaged areas. 
What system was it anyways?


----------



## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

I was kinda hoping he had mis-spoke. I think the welder is screwed.


----------



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

Renegade said:


> Frank, I think he is saying it's bare galvalume.
> 
> Either way, your mfr was correct. Hopefully it's not in a highly visible area or replace the damaged areas.
> What system was it anyways?


I wish I could answer that right off, but the paperwork is at the site in my trailer. I was somewhat out of the loop on the ordering of the roof material, most of the talking and choosing was done by the archy and the H/O. I hired the sub to install and let them do their thing. If I recall, it was 24 ga Galvalume in the standard K500 color. It almost looks like a powder coat grey color. 
The manufacturer told me it would probably fade over time, as stated above by Thom. They said I could try to spot burnish the worst places, but that it would obviously change the finish. Lucky it was not welding splatter, just raw steel spoils off a grinder that landed and then rusted in the sea air.
I think the best thing to do is leave it alone and see what happens. I just thought maybe there was a solution someone knew of. 
Naturally, it occurred in the most visible place possible on the roof, right at the top of the landing to the roof deck stairs.
The welder is coming to look at it tomorrow. 22 grand for that roof, he'd better hope it fades and fast.


----------



## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

Most manufacturer's we deal with have a specific disclaimer regarding sweeping the roof off. If you don't sweep off all loose shavings from the roof it will void the warranty. Sounds to me like the welder's insurance may be paying you to install a new roof.


----------



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

buildpinnacle said:


> Most manufacturer's we deal with have a specific disclaimer regarding sweeping the roof off. If you don't sweep off all loose shavings from the roof it will void the warranty. Sounds to me like the welder's insurance may be paying you to install a new roof.


 Typical So Cal sub-contractor. Bid the job, signed the contract, took a deposit, showed up with three guys who didn't speak English, left them on the site to work unsupervised. They did great work, right up to the part where they were supposed to clean up after themselves. They just left a mess. Now the contractor will have to make good on his lack of supervison and training skills.
It just makes me crazy. Is it this bad everywhere else in the country? Have the trades been overrun with illegal alien dipsticks who don't care?


----------



## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

Yeah, if they had just been white, the problem wouldn't have happened.

Its called plain inexperiance. Welders are not roofing experts.

This is *your* learning experiance. Its up to you to supervise and protect your investment.

You asked them to lay down heavy protectant.
They probably wouldnt at all, if you hadnt asked them.
Problem is, they didnt really know the full reason why they were doing it and neither did you.
You wanted protection from heat,sparks,damage. But you didnt really understand the full scope. So neither did the crew. You didn't really understand about how any tiny little shavings
(all most unseen untill they rust) will cause a problem on the roof.

Now you know. Also know it happens everywhere, not just by the beach.


I think you can figure something out on getting the rust off.
The manufactuer will also sell you their paint for the panel.
They also sell magic marker pens that have the paint in them.
I try to buy them for every metal roof if its available.
Every panel gets scratched somewhere.

After you get the paint,pens. Have your roofer go paint the scratches over the whole roof, not just where the welder worked.


----------



## RooferJim (Mar 6, 2006)

You might want to paint the whole roof to prevent rust with a metal roofing paint.


----------



## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

roof-lover said:


> Yeah, if they had just been white, the problem wouldn't have happened.
> 
> Its called plain inexperiance. Welders are not roofing experts.
> 
> ...


----------



## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

RooferJim said:


> You might want to paint the whole roof to prevent rust with a metal roofing paint.


Might be a good option. As roof lover said every panel seems to get a small scratch on it somewhere. With the salt air near the ocean I would be worried about the rust from new scratches also.


----------



## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

The roof needs to be fixed now,today, yesterday.
Me- mineral spirits, paint, paint pen- one hour-done.

Not two weeks,month,months from now after fighting and setting up with multiple people in their company, then insurance company, ruining multiple relationships, building owner losing confidance in entire project, tearing up metal,flashing and ridgework
ordering new metal, reordering metal after they mess that up or didnt have enough.

Roofer would be getting paid on his terms and not at all the mickey mouse payment that the builder will want to pay. Also his own time schedule.
Builder would have to pay the roofer out of his own pocket.
Then fight everybody to "maybe" get the money back.


----------



## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

RooferJim said:


> You might want to paint the whole roof to prevent rust with a metal roofing paint.


Even though the whole roof is already painted and has a 30 year paint finish warranty? interesting.

You would still be right though. It would make the roof better.
But i have a small hunch the builder isnt going to go for it.


----------



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

roof-lover said:


> Yeah, if they had just been white, the problem wouldn't have happened.
> 
> Its called plain inexperiance. Welders are not roofing experts.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice. You make valid points, no question about it.

What I did with the welding contractor when he came to start: Went up on the roof with him to the area where he would be working. I told him (as I had done when he was bidding the job) that there could be NO damage to the roof and adjacent Galvalume siding whilst he was working. 

Heavy tarps, cardboard, masonite, whatever. COVER the roof, and do not walk on it unless absolutely necessary, and if necessary, do not bend the standing seams. He assured me this would be done. 

I checked to make sure it was done. I checked in periodically to make sure it was STILL being done.
I had other things to supervise and check on so I didn't have time to stand over these guys and watch their every move. 

It happened on my watch, so I would have to agree, I should have inspected every inch of the roof when they left. I should know better by now than to expect a professional job even part of the time.

White guys are just as prone to mistakes. The problem is, there aren't enough of them around anymore in this area doing construction for me to make a decent comparison. 
The standard has become: The sub who owns the buisness bids the job and signs the contract and then sends non-English speaking individuals to do the work. Most of whom do not appear to be in this country legally and probably aren't. 

Call me a racist, I'm used to it. I don't give a damn if they all came from Sweden, what I see is real, no English skills and a lot of sloppy work getting done by one particular majority. 

The welder is coming back today with paint thinner and a lot of cotton rags, we tested some areas and that seemed to work to ease off the rust spots. If it doesn't, I've made it clear to the welder that he isn't getting paid for the balance of his work, and he will be financially responsible for whatever it takes to fix the damage beyond that.
And I WILL be watching his crew from start to finish. Can't talk to them though, Lo Siento, I don't speak Spanish. 

I have a son whose mother is 100% Mexican by the way. And THEY like me.


----------



## Burby (Nov 25, 2008)

Bodger said:


> Thanks for the advice. You make valid points, no question about it.
> 
> What I did with the welding contractor when he came to start: Went up on the roof with him to the area where he would be working. I told him (as I had done when he was bidding the job) that there could be NO damage to the roof and adjacent Galvalume siding whilst he was working.
> 
> ...


Good response considering, but I have to side with you on this. 
You met with the Contractor as should have, explained the importance of the roof protection while sub performing his work, (beyond what should have to) subs need to understand they have a responsibility to being a professional, equally so, sub in a trade definition does not constitute sub standard workmanship. You should not have to stand there and supervise a sub, these closes the line of sub & employee. 
Once a sub is accepted to perfomr his or her job, the responsibility to preperly perform that work belongs to him or her as it is their profession. 
From here the workers they bring to perform the work is *"their"* responsibility to supervise, not yours. 
To many subs are doing this or were until Sept, some still are. They hire cheap labor, get the jobs & want to just drive up to site, holler from their truck, "all going well? ok, later". If allowed to do this what cha gonna do? 
I make sure any sub I hire or send work to, THEY need to supervise the workers THEY have perform the work, fail to and I will triple check the work to find problems and will be held accountable. 
I am all for anyone making all the profit they possibly can, but not at *MY* expense after offering them the work. A trade wants to become a GC or Builder, get the correct lisc and do so, if a trade / sub with workers, supervise your workers. Hire workers of other countries, fine, make sure they are legal and when I come up on the job, you or who ever is in charge best speak english, this is America and english is the #1 language. 
I come to review the work and no one speaks english there, one thing they do understand, go, vamouse, get the hell of my job!! 
Did I mention I dislike business owners that leave workers or a foreman that can't speak english on the job?  But that is my preference.


----------



## roof-lover (Sep 19, 2008)

Bodger said:


> Thanks for the advice. You make valid points, no question about it.


Thankyou. I appreciate that.



> what I see is real, no English skills and a lot of sloppy work getting done by one particular majority.


If you said these things to your family(your son and your sons mother)
How do you think they would feel?
Can we have a moment of silence here before you read the rest?

|"Sloppy|" doesn't come from a skin color. It comes from either not caring
or ignorance, lack of needed skills.

That all has nothing to do with skin color or on what coordinates of the planet you were born.

Now, one thing i have to say, If there is not a decent enough english speaker/interpreter at the job , than that is not acceptable. It would be the last warning. 

I DEMAND the highest quality regardless of cost.
You demand the lowest cost.

I feel like i am the best. I always got paid the best.
I demand that they roof exactly like me.
And if you can do it. You can stay.
then i pay you the best.

My men are 100percent legal, speak,read and write english along with two other languages.
YOu might see see them and think sloppy,low paid,unskilled.

I see them as my family who i am proud to think of as true super heros who love their work as much as i.

I pay more than anybody else 
and then i work on the roof with them dawn till dusk doing every task
as a free slave.
Making sure everything runs crystal smooth.

Their phone never seems to get past the third ring, when i call them.

Lets get back to your roof.
After you use the mineral spirits, you will use the paint that you have ordered from the manufactuer brochere you got.
They do have it. You need it.
Ask for the paint pens/detailer pens used for covering up scratches.
I buy two of them.


----------



## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

Is galvalume touch-up-able? I was under the impression it was a specialized process somewhat like anodizing or something.


----------



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

rustyjames said:


> Is galvalume touch-up-able? I was under the impression it was a specialized process somewhat like anodizing or something.


 Debatable apparently. The installer says that the touch-up kits, paints or markers, whatever, will cover the scratches but then you see the touch -up. From what I have gathered, painting the Galvalume would be inviting disaster. it is best to leave the scratches and see if they fade as the roof is exposed to the elements and takes on whatever patina it will, if it does.

Dunno guys, it's just not my trade. 
Neither is welding but apparently I am to be considered a welding crew supervisor by the sub who did the damage.
He hasn't been paid, and may yet end up owing a lot of money in Galvalume repair.


----------



## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

It probably wouldn't be a big deal but the fact that the panels are right in your face with it being a roof-top deck makes it so.


----------



## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

I just remembered something. In the metal shop next door, they're always building electrial chases and after welding and grinding, they spray with canned galvanized.
I'm sure it won't match, but after all the cleaning, etc, spraying it with that won't hurt if nobody complains about any mismatch. It would be a protectant. Better than paint possibly. Sure couldn't hurt.


----------



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

rustyjames said:


> It probably wouldn't be a big deal but the fact that the panels are right in your face with it being a roof-top deck makes it so.


 That's the problem. The welding occurred on the railings at the top of the stairs leading to the roof deck, which is sunken into and surrounded by the 
Galvalume roof. 
Otherwise, it would have been an annoyance, but not a big deal. Well, I would still have certainly addressed it with the welder, but it wouldn't have been something that would have been noticeable.


----------



## buildpinnacle (Sep 2, 2008)

roof-lover said:


> I think you can figure something out on getting the rust off.
> The manufactuer will also sell you their paint for the panel.
> They also sell magic marker pens that have the paint in them.
> I try to buy them for every metal roof if its available.
> ...


Will everyone please note the the OP said the roof was GALVALUME!!!

Galvalume is an aluminum-zinc alloy coated over a steel sheet. It is not painted. Without wanting to go into the entire process, think about how galvinization is done. (not the same, but you'll get the jist). NOTHING will remove the rust. Yes, I suppose you could try to paint the rust areas with a very small artistic brush with some type of DTM (direct to metal) industrial/marine coating that matches....but it will be a band-aide to get paid. 

Not sure if you are on a new const project with other subs and a prime GC or what....but if that's the case and the GC did, in fact, hire the welders w/o insurance then he was most likely trying to shave a buck and I have no sympathy. Regardless of whether or not they are idiots or illegals...no insurance, no workie. 

Insofar as the illegals in SoCal. A very good friend of mine who lives in the LA area as well as here in TX always through me a loop when we first met with how much he HATED illegals (wets...don't mind the slur b/c if they are wet, they don't have rights and I don't have to be respectful) b/c they were taking over SoCal. I argured and argued b/c we use a ton of hispanic labor (insured and legal, mind you), but he wouldn't even go that route out here b/c he had been burned so bad. We are starting to see that a little bit in my part of TX (where they are acutally competing with me and not wanting to sub) but I am certain it will get worse. The problem will be when SR's fully non-broken english, better looking son, grows up and competes with us and still hires the illegal brothers and cousins for cheap labor but can go toe to toe with us on appearance and salesmanship. BEWARE, it IS coming.


----------



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

buildpinnacle said:


> Will everyone please note the the OP said the roof was GALVALUME!!!
> 
> Galvalume is an aluminum-zinc alloy coated over a steel sheet. It is not painted. Without wanting to go into the entire process, think about how galvinization is done. (not the same, but you'll get the jist). NOTHING will remove the rust. Yes, I suppose you could try to paint the rust areas with a very small artistic brush with some type of DTM (direct to metal) industrial/marine coating that matches....but it will be a band-aide to get paid.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU! For clearing that up about Galvalume and paint.
I'm the primary contractor on the project, I'm a licensed GC and I only hire licensed, bonded sub-contractors with general liability and worker's comp. This welder was no exception. 

Problem was, I did not notice he had left the job in the hands of "wet" employees who screwed up. The rust isn't that bad, paint thinner and a soft cotton brush is making it disappear for the most part. 
In any case, I have photos and will hold the welder responsible for any damage that he cannot correct.

And yes, I too get a lot of flak about my attitude regarding illegals. And I agree, they literally have no right to be here because they are here illegally. If they want to immigrate, fine, go through legal channels, otherwise, they should get out.

Your friend in So CA obviously reached the same level of frustration that I have come to. And not just this roof problem, I can name a dozen other damage instances on this job alone that were caused by illegals. They have absolutely overrun the business, and way too many of them don't have the experience to do the work they are given by their sub bosses.


----------



## apehangeralfy (Oct 26, 2008)

Once the rust (oxidation) has started on a Galvalume roof panel the "seal" has been broken. You can hide it, band-aid it, paint it... etc. but the end result is it will prematurely fail... 

This is one of those deals that you can fix now or fix later. Hears my version of what will happen in the future... the welder will deny or move on, the manufacture will reject the warranty, you will be left holding the bag... I could be wrong, I have been before, but you know that if they don't want to pay up to fix it right now do you think they will be more inclined to step up 3 years or so from now????


----------



## Bodger (Oct 23, 2008)

Just thought I would post the final (I hope) outcome on this problem I had:
The welder sent the same guys who had made the mistake to my job site to clean up their mess. We took paint thinner and soft cotton rags and test cleaned an area that was less visible. It worked.
The thinner and polishing did the trick. The rust was only on the surface of the Galvalume where the metal debris had landed, had not been there long.
Two guys, eight hours, hands and knees with rags, polishing. All under the watchful eye of a fuming boss who harangued them every time they missed a spot.
The welding contractor was very apologetic and assured me that if anything further resulted, any rust re-appearing or any pitting that gets worse, he will take full responsibility.
That roof looked like the fuselage of a fighter plane when those dudes got finished. I doubt they will make that mistake again.
Hopefully, this is the end of it.


----------



## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

"I doubt they will make that mistake again."

Education is expensive! Glad it worked out, it would have been ashame to have to go back and replace panels.


----------

