# Masonry/brick door sill problem....



## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

I know I should have some pictures to go with my question, but I don't, sorry guys....

Anyway, I am looking at a 6/0 x 6/8 patio door for a customer. At the base of the door (under the threshold) there are bricks turned on their sides all across under the threshold. Of course, the morter between these brick is facing up right where water, snow and ice can collect. The exposed bricks themselves are crumbling along with the morter. 

The HO was "thinking" of tearing out the existing brick and re-doing it the same way when we replaced the door. I said no way Jose - the same thing would just happen all over again. My question is.... wouldn't a solid concrete sill (like you see on windows in brick homes) be a better choice? I know I will need to see what is under the threshold of the door once we get it out, but I still think a solid concrete sill would be a better choice.

Am I wrong in my thinking?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

No, you are right in your thinking.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Get a piece of granite made for it.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

can you masonry guys explain why people still go with sills that aren't one solid slab? is it that much cheaper/faster? seems like it creates nothing but problems doing it that way.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

A rowlock under a window made of brick will last a hundred years. An area of brickwork that is in the shade and has the rain bouncing off a deck eroding the mortar joints will not last as long.

It is not the masonry that is the problem it is lack of water management that is the issue.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

JBM said:


> A rowlock under a window made of brick will last a hundred years. An area of brickwork that is in the shade and has the rain bouncing off a deck eroding the mortar joints will not last as long.
> 
> It is not the masonry that is the problem it is lack of water management that is the issue.


I think that's exactly what happened here. Even though there is an overhang above the door with a gutter, since this is down near the ground, it just invites water to sit on top of the ledge. The exposed bricks and what morter is left is just crumbling away.


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## NJ Brickie (Jan 31, 2009)

aptpupil said:


> can you masonry guys explain why people still go with sills that aren't one solid slab? is it that much cheaper/faster? seems like it creates nothing but problems doing it that way.



A rowlock sill will last a very long time if installed/flashed properly. A solid sill, pre-cast or natural stone can/will erode also in poorly designed/installed situations. But I will agree that in the situation of the OP with a door sill a one piece will with stand foot traffic better most of the time.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

NJ Brickie said:


> A rowlock sill will last a very long time if installed/flashed properly. A solid sill, pre-cast or natural stone can/will erode also in poorly designed/installed situations. But I will agree that in the situation of the OP with a door sill a one piece will with stand foot traffic better most of the time.


Is there any special flashing or other proceedure I should consider before replacing the brick with a piece of pre-cast or stone? I know some pics would help.... sorry. 

My sales guy is heading over there Monday to get her signed up for a couple of windows that are falling apart, but she wants to wait until spring to replace the door. I would rather she _not_ wait because she's already admitted to moisture coming in under the door at times and you can already see a black edge along the carpet which I'm sure is mold. We may have an even bigger nightmare next spring.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

I'd like to be able to do this in a "one day" R&R if I can. I don't have the weather now to wait a day or two while everything sets up. Maybe it will have to wait for better weather. 

The shame of it is, we inspected her windows and doors over a month ago and highly recommended replacing the door first and the two windows in question. We told her how serious things were and that she needed to do at least these three openings right away with a couple of other minor repairs.

She chose to put things off, and a couple of days ago rotted wood on two of the window sashes actually fell of leaving the glass exposed on the outside. So I guess she figured that maybe we _WERE_ right and she needed to get those two windows done. I still couldn't convince her to go ahead and do the door though.

What's incredibly frustrating, is money is absolutely no issue with her....


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

You should get a mason in there to repair it. Only after he takes it apart will he see what is behind it. If it looks questionable I would flash it with weepers, if it looks like there is a moisture barrier behind it then a simple replacement should suffice.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

JBM said:


> You should get a mason in there to repair it. Only after he takes it apart will he see what is behind it. If it looks questionable I would flash it with weepers, if it looks like there is a moisture barrier behind it then a simple replacement should suffice.


Yeah, good idea. maybe he can come up with a way to at least make it water tight for the winter for her and we'll deal with everything else in the spring when she's more "ready." 

Thanks for the replies and suggestions fellas. I will get some pics posted next week.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

don't use rowlock that close to the ground. Snow build up and the salt that gets thrown down will destroy the joints and brick in as short as a decade


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