# How to avoid "framing"?



## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

When its brush and roller in a residential new construction or repaint, what is your process for avoiding the dreaded "framing" look? (when you brush the corners and then roll the walls... the brushed paint stands out around the rolled portion of the walls, thus causing a "framed" look... in case you were not familar with this term)

I've been trying various techniques and some work way better than others. What's your technique for interior walls?

steve


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

The term is "picture framing"....and it is avoided by painting quickly and always keeping a "wet edge" of paint. You have to paint fast and when you are dealing with eggshell, satin and semi-gloss it's even MORE important to go fast. :thumbsup: 

Arent you painting 2 coats(at least)?...this should take care of any picture framing you are encountering because usually it happens on the first coat 

To avoid this(or cut down on it from happening)if your walls are big, use an 18" roller to double your speed, also when you cut your walls to the ceiling, MAKE SURE when you do the initial cut, you go right back over what you cut with a good slab of paint(backbrushing or crossbrushing, etc.) and make sure when you are rolling, to roll as close to every edge as you can...I usually leave about 1"........

OH....the most important thing is good paint....hope you're using some!:


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

Most, if not all, of my paint jobs get two coats (or more)... unless its a repaint and then we use something close to the color being covered.

In many cases I hit the corners again while the paint is still semi-wet... leaves a heavy coat. Most of time this works, but there are times that I can see where the rolling stopped and the brush started.

Maybe my cutting technique needs refinement?? Maybe I'm being too hard on myself??

BTW- I use mostly SW paint. Occassionaly other brands as the job dictates.

steve


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Is it possible that your brush or your roller cover are such crap, that they leave a great disparity in finish texture when compared?


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

steve-in-kville said:


> Maybe my cutting technique needs refinement??


More likely your rolling technique
Also you should be cutting then rolling one wall at a time (wet edge)
Cheaper, darker, and shinier paints show it more
...and mdshunk has an excellent point, the tools can make a great difference



steve-in-kville said:


> BTW- I use mostly SW paint.


Although SW makes some great paints, they also make some of the crappiest
You'll have to be more specific if you want to know if the paint is making your problem worse


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

mdshunk said:


> Is it possible that your brush or your roller cover are such crap, that they leave a great disparity in finish texture when compared?


I doubt it. I use good stuff. It could be that I'm not matching the correct roller for the wall surface and/or sheen. That makes a big difference... so I've learned the hard way.

steve


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

Also, there is a term called "Dutch roll", the practice of running the roller sideways as close as you can to the top and bottom cut lines... takes out alot of junk cut for semi/eggshell.


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

slickshift said:


> More likely your rolling technique


Please expound!! Maybe I have something to learn after all these years.

steve


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

slickshift said:


> Although SW makes some great paints, they also make some of the crappiest
> You'll have to be more specific if you want to know if the paint is making your problem worse


Classic 99 more than anything... I like the stuff. Its at the bottom end of the scale (above the promar series, though). I've used the higher grades for various projects with the same problem.... as mentioned earlier, I may have a few hard lessons to learn.

Thanks!!

steve


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Brushslingers said:


> Also, there is a term called "Dutch roll", the practice of running the roller sideways as close as you can to the top and bottom cut lines... takes out alot of junk cut for semi/eggshell.


...interesting...
Though I've often used that technique, I didn't know there was a name for it
I just had to use what I learned as a "French Roll" above a chair rail
It had a slightly glossy sheen, and the cut-in above the chair rail was highly visible with the light from the window/wall and being so high
It's one of the few things I'll use tape for


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

steve-in-kville said:


> Please expound!! Maybe I have something to learn after all these years.


Roll closer into the cut-in while the cut-in is still wet


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

slickshift said:


> ...interesting...
> Though I've often used that technique, I didn't know there was a name for it
> I just had to use what I learned as a "French Roll" above a chair rail
> It had a slightly glossy sheen, and the cut-in above the chair rail was highly visible with the light from the window/wall and being so high
> It's one of the few things I'll use tape for


Hmm, now you got one on me, whats french roll?


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## Joewho (Sep 20, 2006)

Steve,

I've held many income property accounts over the years and my first job as a painter was for a property mgt. company.

You definatley don't need classic 99 for an income property. Use the Pro Mar line. It's advertised as a contracors paint, but don't let that put you off. It's an excellent product. 200 is top of the line, 700 is the next step down and 400 is the cheapo stuff.

If you're doing 2 coats, go with 700. It covers just fine, is very touch up friendly and is "self priming". If you done a lot of apartments, you'll learn what needs to be primed with kilz and what doesnt'. Whatever doesn't need to be kilz'd you can just paint over with pro mar.

In the area of work you're doing, it's standard practice to paint all the units the same color, same paint, and in the pro mar line, you can even get the same batch for quite a while.

whoever mentioned that you should lay down more paint with the brush is right. Lay it on there. Use a common off white, like dover and wait until the next day to see if it's still picture framing. Is this a smokers unit by chance?

Also, I use the most expensive lamb roller they have. It's lasts forever, you can really lay down a coat of paint with it, and you can control the texture left behind simply by rolling it out a few more strokes. The texture of a lambs wool may look scary when wet, but dries nice.

S/W produces their own paint. They even mfg. Pratt&Lambert for whoever bought them out.


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

slickshift said:


> Roll closer into the cut-in while the cut-in is still wet


So cutting in one wall (and rolling the same wall) at a time or using Floetrol in my latex would be the hot set-up??

Thanks for the great info :thumbup: 

steve


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Brushslingers said:


> Hmm, now you got one on me, whats french roll?


Same as a Henway


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

I'm glad you all could expound on all of my tips!


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## steve-in-kville (Aug 30, 2006)

Joewho said:


> Use a common off white, like dover and wait until the next day to see if it's still picture framing. Is this a smokers unit by chance?


I've been using a Linen white color mostly. As far as smokers.... it really varies. I've sprayed the Promar 200 and its a nice paint for the price. Never rolled it. I always stuck with the Classic99 as I've been very happy with the results. Rolls nice and brushes quite smoothly.

Just my opinion. Thanks for the reply 

steve


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## Brushslingers (Jul 28, 2006)

slickshift said:


> Same as a Henway


:laughing:


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Before Venitian Red got so popular, Oriental Red was the shizzle. When working over the top of a built-in hall wall table, I've had to use what is known as an "egg roll". Did the trick.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Brushslingers said:


> :laughing:


...not falling for it eh, Benn?


Lol
I taped off the chair rail and brought that roller so close to the chair rail that they'd be considered married in 14 states


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