# Need help w/ ext paint bubbling!



## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

I painted my own home last year and within a couple months bubbles started appearing. I had spent 3 days prepping it by washing it using a brush and cleaner(no pressure wash), scraped, sanded and spot primed. Then I applied 1 coat color tinted primer and 1 1/2 coats topcoats with a sprayer. 

This houses is 1964 built with smooth cedar lap siding and yes i have put in a forced air HVAC system within the last 5 years.

I got my local paint rep out from Miller and he said it was interior house moister causing the bubbles to form. His sugestion was to strip it to the base wood and start again.

I talked to my local SW manager and he stated about the same thing. However, his solution was to add siding vents and that striping it alone wouldn't help.

Here are my options:

1- Strip it down to bare wood and start over.

2- Scrape bubbles, sand, repaint and install siding vents

3- Strip it all and repaint along with installing siding vents

4- Tear off siding and install new Hardi lap with rainscreen barrier


Please let me know your experiances with this and what worked.


Thanks​


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> scraped, sanded and spot primed.​



So I'll assume the house was painted before.

Any bubbling issues in/on the previous paint job?

Are you sure the siding was dry before you primed? How long did you wait after washing?

What did you prime with?

Do the bubbles appear to be mainly where you primed, or all over?

More on any one side of the house than the others?​


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

-Yes the house was painted before(1964 built so probably around 5 coats)

- I only remember peeling issues with previous paint. Previous painter had just scraped and painted(college pros)

- I waited approx 2 weeks after washing.( in late august)

-spot primed with Bin Cover stain oil primer and primed entire house with Acrilite water based primer.(Miller brand)

-Bubbles appear only on sunny sides of the house and don't appear to conincide with spot priming.


Thx


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Have you scraped off any of the bubbles to see what's under them (more paint, primer, or wood)?


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Yes. I painted an earth tone medium brown and the back of the bubble it was white, the previous color. Appears to go at least a coat or two beneath my new coat.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

I've had blisters appear before, when I (accidentally) painted in the sun.

If it were ME...I'd start with the simplest (experimental) solution first.

Scrape some of the worst, sand to feather, oil prime, repaint (I'd brush it out of the can, while it's in the shade)...see what happens.

... and see what some of the (excellent, non-hack) others here suggest.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> Yes. I painted an earth tone medium brown and the back of the bubble it was white, the previous color. Appears to go at least a coat or two beneath my new coat.


If the blisters are in/from the previous paint job...seems like you'd have noticed them before you even started.


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

I've tried that on another house that I sold. I would spend the day scraping , feathering priming,and painting then the next sunny day more would show up! I called all around town and noone would give a a good answer as to why. Luckly the house sold quickly and I didn't have to deal with it any more!

I was talking to my neighbor who has the same siding and painted his house this summer. He said it was because I sprayed it and not brushed it. He went around his house scraped, hit with "peel stop", and used a kitz primer and then topped it with Behr paint:shifty: all brushed and rolled on. Sure enough a couple days later he started having bubbles appear too! So much for the spraying theory!:whistling


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Steve Richards said:


> If the blisters are in/from the previous paint job...seems like you'd have noticed them before you even started.


 
Yeah no blisters in these areas on the old paint job. I wonder if this is a regional issue? I've seen a few posts about it but they seem to be around the Pacific NW.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Had kind of a similar problem once about 30 years ago. The house had been stained originally, and painted multiple times before we ever got there. Blisters where already there, but were made more prominent with fresh paint. Blisters we scraped came off to bare/oily wood.
If I remember correctly... we oil primed, painted, and got the hell outta there. :w00t:



But again..if it were me, on my house...

(I'd probably first try to convince my wife the blisters will eventually lay back down)

I'd strip a few the worst boards, maybe add some vents to some of them, and see if they make any difference.

Luckily this is your place and (I presume) there's no emergency.


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## Paint Dribblz (Sep 2, 2010)

Over time I became the master of spotting out a solution to blistering/bubbled paint. By the sounds of it, based on the bubbles only apearing where the sun hits the wall directly, its moisture. You have to install side vents (4'' R) 2 feet from each other along the sides of your sofits. 

The attic if heating up too hot and sending the hot air down the claps releasing moisture. Last time I encounted that the previous HO caulked between all the cedar shakes! Man what a mess.

The issue less likly is you aren't following the paint's instuctions..never paint outside the temp zones especially in the heat. Always paint in the shade if you can.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Steve Richards said:


> ... and see what some of the (excellent, non-hack) others here suggest.


..and there ya go

thanks dribblz


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Paint Dribblz said:


> Over time I became the master of spotting out a solution to blistering/bubbled paint. By the sounds of it, based on the bubbles only apearing where the sun hits the wall directly, its moisture. You have to install side vents (4'' R) 2 feet from each other along the sides of your sofits.
> 
> The attic if heating up too hot and sending the hot air down the claps releasing moisture. Last time I encounted that the previous HO caulked between all the cedar shakes! Man what a mess.
> 
> The issue less likly is you aren't following the paint's instuctions..never paint outside the temp zones especially in the heat. Always paint in the shade if you can.


- So I should add 4" rd soffit vents every 2' to my already existing 8"x16" every 8ft?

- I got a great 75-80 degree to paint in when i painted it!:thumbup: So im not thinking weather was a problem.

Thx


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Steve Richards said:


> Had kind of a similar problem once about 30 years ago. The house had been stained originally, and painted multiple times before we ever got there. Blisters where already there, but were made more prominent with fresh paint. Blisters we scraped came off to bare/oily wood.
> If I remember correctly... we oil primed, painted, and got the hell outta there. :w00t:
> 
> 
> ...


 
I'm glad its my own home because I'd be screwed if it were a customers. However, it has me gunshy to paint any more cedar lap for a customer until I find a good tried and true solution.


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## Paint Dribblz (Sep 2, 2010)

It really just sounds like a moisture issue. You already have vents running your house?


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> I'm glad its my own home because I'd be screwed if it were a customers. However, it has me gunshy to paint any more cedar lap for a customer until I find a good tried and true solution.


Don't be scared.

This will at least teach you to look closely for blisters when you estimate it.


Now do like dribblz said... get out your saw and start cuttin' holes!

heh

sorry guys...it's late


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

in fact..'nite gents.

(I'll probably dream about bubbling paint.)


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## world llc (Dec 9, 2008)

i have heard theory's about warm to dark colors being applied in the sun... it will dry quickly, but the surface will dry first and warm to hot vapor will make what it is applying to fail! that was my warning on avoiding painting in the sunlight if possable...

of coarse, this has never happened to me, just chatter from the old timers...


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

world llc said:


> i have heard theory's about warm to dark colors being applied in the sun... it will dry quickly, but the surface will dry first and warm to hot vapor will make what it is applying to fail! that was my warning on avoiding painting in the sunlight if possable...
> 
> of coarse, this has never happened to me, just chatter from the old timers...


Interesting.. both me and my neighbors colors are on the darker side.:001_unsure:


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Paint Dribblz said:


> It really just sounds like a moisture issue. You already have vents running your house?


 
I agree, but from where? And yes I already have soffit vents running around my home, but not siding vents.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> the back of the bubble it was white, the previous color. Appears to go at least a coat or two beneath my new coat.


Suggests the problem isn't with your paint




RadRemod said:


> Previous painter had just scraped and painted(college pros)


hmmm...:shifty:


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

RadRemod said:


> I agree, but from where? And yes I already have soffit vents running around my home, but not siding vents.


How old is the house?

If there is no vapor barrier on the inside, moisture could be going through the walls from the interior of the house.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

shanekw1 said:


> How old is the house?
> 
> If there is no vapor barrier on the inside, moisture could be going through the walls from the interior of the house.


If that's the case, would he need to put siding vents every 16", towards the top of each wall?

More vents that that?

..or something else completely?


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## Paint Dribblz (Sep 2, 2010)

If you post pictures of the issue we might be able to help more. My solutions stop if you have vents running your soffits because that should reduce the heat coming out of the attic down the wall boards. Maybe pics of what it looks like when you strip the bubbles off and some pics of the overall house where the issues are coming up. 

To me though, it's sounds like you shouldn't be having this problem, but that's why we are all here, to sort issues out. I'd love to keep updated with this for my future encounters. I'm sure everything here you have heard from your paint reps so its really a guess and check I believe now. The question is how much time do you have to put into your house...


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Shane- the house was built in 1964

Dribblz-I'll try to get some pictures taken and up today. I'm planning on being at the house for a while now so I'd like to find and fix the problem not just the symptom. Then I wont have to screw with it again. Also it will give me a game plan if it happens to someone else.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

your neighbors havent had new windows put in recently have they?:shifty:


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

No old crappy aluminum Ibelive. Why?


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> Suggests the problem isn't with your paint
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That it was older paint under the bubble suggests that it wasn't moisture either. Those would almost always go down to bare wood.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Gough said:


> That it was older paint under the bubble suggests that it wasn't moisture either. Those would almost always go down to bare wood.


Good point.

Maybe the previous painter oil-primed too soon after washing?
Maybe the previous painter's finish didn't adhere to their primer?

In either case, sounds like wetting it with paint caused it to let go and form blisters.

But why wouldn't these blisters have shown up a long time ago after a good rain?

Hey Rad, does it ever rain there?


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> Good point.
> 
> Maybe the previous painter oil-primed too soon after washing?
> Maybe the previous painter's finish didn't adhere to their primer?
> ...


As someone pointed out earlier, this seems to be more of a problem with darker colors. Sometimes, those are solvent blisters, caused by the surface of the fresh paint drying to quickly and trapping water underneath before it can evaporate. Since the OP said that the failure happened between layers of older paint, it sounds more like an incompatability problem in the older paint. I could see it being one of those issues that you mentioned, Steve. The higher surface temperatures as a result of the darker paint could be what caused the problem to show up now.


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Steve Richards said:


> Good point.
> 
> 
> Hey Rad, does it ever rain there?


Steve- We do get a good amount of rainfall over here in OR.


You guys may be on to something with the dark paints. I'm kind of wondering if the college pros paint used was crap and didn't adhear well. I did scrap every single bubble or pealed spot. I'm wonderingif the new darker paint is heating up and lifting the bad paint. 

So do I purchase a Paint shaver pro for $8-900 or reside for $20-2500?

I'm just not sold on the siding vents and I think it would look like ass having vents every 16" on the walls.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> I'm just not sold on the siding vents and I think it would look like ass having vents every 16" on the walls.


They can be painted to match...

(of course since they're plastic, they'll probably peel)

then you can come back here and start another successful thread


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

*Pictures Finally*

Just got a few photos! The first is the bubbles on the house. Second a single bubble and third that bubble scraped with only a 4" putty knife in about 5 seconds!

Just noticed something that might help. Its only about 70 degrees here in Salem,OR today but the brown paint is hot to the touch. However the area of paint that I stripped to white paint the other day is still cool. Both are in direct sunlight!

I'm wondering if the dark paint is heating up too much and releasing an old failing layer of paint. Almost like using a heat gun on it. What do you think?


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> I'm wondering if the dark paint is heating up too much and releasing an old failing layer of paint. Almost like using a heat gun on it. What do you think?


Sounds good to me.

Is the "white" the previous paint, or your primer?


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

The white is a previous layer of paint(not sure how deep). My primer was tinted a brown to be about 50% as dark as my top coat.


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

RadRemod said:


> Just got a few photos! The first is the bubbles on the house. Second a single bubble and third that bubble scraped with only a 4" putty knife in about 5 seconds!
> 
> Just noticed something that might help. Its only about 70 degrees here in Salem,OR today but the brown paint is hot to the touch. However the area of paint that I stripped to white paint the other day is still cool. Both are in direct sunlight!
> 
> I'm wondering if the dark paint is heating up too much and releasing an old failing layer of paint. Almost like using a heat gun on it. What do you think?


I think you've found the problem. The clapboards look to be in pretty good shape, so they may be worth stripping. If it were my place, I'd strip the siding using heat plates and scrapers, sand, prime, and paint. More importantly, if it were my place, I wouldn't have to worry about RRP.


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## shanekw1 (Mar 20, 2008)

Looks like someone put latex over oil, to me.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

shanekw1 said:


> Looks like someone put latex over oil, to me.


hmmm..
easy enough to check w/some alcohol.


Hey Rad, if you wipe your hand across that white, does any chalk come off on your hand?


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Steve- Just went out and rubbed my hand on the white paint and got a little white residue on my finger tips. 

What are you thinking?


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Right now, I'm thinking: "I wonder if he's washed his hand yet"?

I'm also thinking I wish Rad had checked his siding for chalking before he put away his house-washing equipment.


Flat paints chalk, especially on the sunny sides, and worse if it's crappy paint.
I confess I'm not familiar with Miller's Acrilite primer...I suggest you see what it says on the can about putting it on chalking surfaces (some primers are ok w/it)

(might google "paint chalking" too.)


Most importantly remember.... If I had any really good advice, I probably wouldn't be here giving it away for free.


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## Jp1991 (Aug 13, 2011)

The paint shaver pro is awesome. Just stripped a whole house with it and it looks great.


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## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> I just ordered a Paint shaver pro and sander! Hopefully I will get some time to start removing paint by the end of summer.:thumbup:


Wait long enough, and all the paint will wear off all by itself.

..nice to hear you're moving forward on it though.


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Paint shaver/sander is in! I played around with it last night and stripped & sanded 20 sq ft in about an hr. Hope to speed up or its going to take forever! Also the shaver seems to only catch 60-75% of the paint removed. I'm sure this is lead paint so I was hoping for more retention. I'm using my hepa festool ct 26 so I'm using a good vac. Any suggestions? Heading down to SW today to get some fresh respirator refills and a new tyvek suit. I'll try again tonight and see how much I can do.

Also as a side note I was checking the temperature of the siding and noticed my brown color was approx 25 degrees hotter than the actual temp!

Outside temp- 78
White siding- 90
Brown siding- 116

I'm thinking of changing my color once im done even though I just changed it to this 2 years ago! Any thoughts?


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Was able to get a full 8 hrs of work on the house today(w/2 people):clap:. Got a 75'x8 1/2' run of my house stripped and half of it belt sanded with 50 grit. Figure I have another 8 hrs to finish prepping (final sanding w/80grit, filling nail heads, and hand scraping edges). I have the mgr of the local SW coming out tomorrow to recomend a primer/paint for the cedar. Do you guys have any recomendations?


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

To long did not read every post after the first page, but did you ever post the actual products you put on this house? Those appear to be water related. Did you do a moisture test before you started?


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Jhc these issues were discussed on later in the thread. I dont mean to be rude but the question now is what would be the best primer for my bare cedar lap siding.


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

No paint, I would put a coat of acrylic like woodscapes, and prime the knots with a good oil like coverstain after. Hit the spots you primed with oil again with woodscapes and apply a second coat over it all.


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

I think that is what the SW mgr was sugesting or something like that when I talked to him at the store. He will be out to the site tomorrow. I belive he was suggesting woodscapes for the primer coat then a super paint or duration. Is this what you are saying? Or woodscapes for topcoat also?


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes all woodscapes. That appears to be white cedar, but you will still see some tannin bleed especially on the knots after you apply the first coat. Hit those bleed spots with coverstain, and then again after the oil dries with the woodscapes. When that dries then apply a second coat over all of it, and you will be good.


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

I tried using Woodscapes(as a primer) and Resilience top coat. The wood scapes didn't cover the tannin bleed so I have to use SW ext oil primer. Bummer but I tried WB primer at least. It only cost me time as the SW mgr didn't charge me for the Woodscapes.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

you can't leave raw cedar exposed for too long before coating it,u.v breakdown can occur very quickly and compromise the paint bond


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Tom, thats why I'm only stripping a side or two at a time. Then hitting it with primer. The weather here is finally turning and I'm getting morning dew. And today we have the first rain in a long while. I have a system with my 2 helpers and think I can get it finished by sat of next week if the weather holds


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Sorry, the weather ain't gonna hold. We've got 1-2 wks of straight rain forcast up here. Get ready for 9 months of GRAY


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

My forecast looks only a hair better than yours I think But the window is closing quickly. Wish I would have started earlier but I had paying jobs to take care of first. Now I have work backing up until I finish this. Good feeling going into the winter but stressful


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Ha, yep we finished a job on Saturday, SO materials are coming in tomorrow for another one and my second has my rental just about ready for paint :thumbup:


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## JHC (Jun 4, 2010)

Why are you painting cedar? Ugh.. 

I told you the knots would bleed and how to fix it.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

traditionally wood siding is meant to be painted


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

JHC said:


> Why are you painting cedar? Ugh..
> 
> I told you the knots would bleed and how to fix it.


JHC 
I'm not stripping the entire house. Only the cedar siding on 3 sides and not the gables as that arent effected. Also no knots on these boards all clear premium stuff. The tannin is tiger stripping so it needed a full coat of oil primer to cover it. After having to do that might as well use a good paint.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

This has been a fun thread. That link to the paint failure info is a great resource. The one I'm finishing up has all those problems and more. :thumbsup:

Unfortunately, as was mentioned above, the window is closing and I have one house and another house full of trim and soffits to repair and paint. All I need is another month or two of good weather and I'm good. No problem. :laughing: 

I was one day from finishing the last one when this system blew in. Now I'm gonna sit back do some paperwork and catch up on some movies. :thumbup:


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