# Customers that use you.



## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

*Premise* 
I get a Call Saturday. They want me to come out ASAP. I agree to Sunday to look at the job. As soon as I walk in I start questions why they need me. House is torn up because they are doing some reno's.

Monday I get them a bid for the work (Fix a leak that caused water damage to floor under door. Same with in the bathroom under toilet. And then ask how much to do all new underlay of dining room.

-They email back and ask for bid to be split by job (not asking for itemized bid). 

-I email back asking, "why?"

Here is the response.
What do you say to this?

_Hi Ian,

Thanks for getting back. I wanted to split the cost of the jobs because I was hoping the original contractor would agree to fix the bathroom floor (which he has--he was paid to do it before we moved in), and because I was considering laying the underlayment myself. We hadn't budgeted for these repairs, so want to save where we can. We're not interested in itemizing materials, just a bid for each job. Sorry we did not ask earlier for these to be individual bids. 

Right now we're just interested in fixing the patio area and installing flashing (possibly also laying underlayment depending on how much more it would cost).

*Customer NAme*_

I am tempted to just not respond at all and move on. And given the water damage at them not "budgeting" for the unknown, I'm almost positive there will be water damage to some of the floor structure.

I'm almost sure they are new house flippers that don't know what they have gotten themselves into. (they want to lay vinly over the hearth of a gas insert....


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Nobody can take advantage of you without your permission
.........................................................................._Ann Landers_


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

This is true. Except when you go to a job to look a it for the "customer" only to find them asking you a lot of questions so they will then know how to do it themselves.

I don't see anyway to avoid that.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

I guess I'm not clear where they are taking advantage of you... 

You've given them the cost for both projects as one unit, simply give them a price for the one they want and increase the cost due to loss of productivity savings...


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

They will.

You give them a total price for, say $1000.

Then they ask to break it down. They will expect the individual prices to add up to $1000 (ie, $300, 450 and 250). But your broken-down prices will not be profitable when you only perform part of the total. So they will need to reflect that reality and be more realistic, such as 400, 550 and 350.

As soon as you present those adjusted parts, then the haggling will begin. They will suddenly be unable to comprehend the 'cheaper by the dozen' analogy.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

So they just forgot they only planned to do some of the work?

Sounds like something I would stay away from, or next thing you know you will be that contractor they are talking about to others.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

Thanks Sparky. I assume that's where this is going. 

I also think it's ****ty to use me to get a quote on a job to use as ammunition for the other contractor.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> Thanks Sparky. I assume that's where this is going.
> 
> I also think it's ****ty to use me to get a quote on a job to use as ammunition for the other contractor.


Get over it.

And don't pretend you don't do the same thing when you shop cars.


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm the same with proposals as Sparky. It's a lot more expensive for 5 smaller jobs than all 5 together. I make sure each job is profitable. 

I tell the customer right up front about it. I can plan out all the work, supplies and tools once or 5 times.

I also deduct items on a larger proposal by subtracting smaller amounts from the over all price so my profit remains larger.

In turn, I will add on smaller item without a large profit if I'm already there-to a degree.


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## jstanton (Mar 25, 2012)

Honestly, there are a couple red flags. This should have not have gone past a phone call. Did you ask the who, where, what, why when you called them?

Why are they calling in the middle of a project? 

Called on Saturday and looked at on Sunday? Why are they in such a rush? I wouldn't have even called back until Monday. Usually people in that much of a rush are in this situation.

Anything further I would ask for a fee to be there construction consultant (or whatever you want to call it). They are looking to use you for free to make their contractor do the work. Again, pre qualify over the phone like crazy. You want nothing to do with this situation in my experience.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Get over it.
> 
> And don't pretend you don't do the same thing when you shop cars.



How do you mean for cars? I don't shop cars much. The ones I did I pay cash for them all. Because I am a mechanic by trade I know what to look for. I do the same with bicycles I by used.

If its worth their asking price, I don't even talk them down.

If the car has some serious issues then I am going to negotiate because of all the work that has to go into it.

Same reason I don't go shoe shopping in town to try them on, knowing I am going to buy them online. I mostly shop local because I also want my money to stay locally. 

I'm from Bellingham, WA. Pretty awesome hippish community. More local business here than franchise.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

jstanton said:


> Honestly, there are a couple red flags. This should have not have gone past a phone call. Did you ask the who, where, what, why when you called them?
> 
> Why are they calling in the middle of a project?
> 
> ...



I'm working on the pre-qualifying. I had no idea they were in the middle of a reno until I walked in. That's where I got skeptical. I answer my phone on saturdays. I told them Monday first and I only agreed to Sunday since I was playing soccer right down the street from them, figured kill two birds with one stone.

Thank you for weighing in! I love this site. I'm 26 and start the business 8 months ago.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

KAP said:


> I guess I'm not clear where they are taking advantage of you...
> 
> You given them the cost for both projects as one unit, simply give them a price for the one they want and increase the cost due to loss of productivity savings...


The part where they had me look at the toilet water damage. They never intended on having me do that work. Above is the exact email he sent me after I asked "why do you want a cost break down per job."

Thank you for your input!


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

tucnasam said:


> Because I am a mechanic by trade.


Maybe that's the problem.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

tucnasam said:


> The part where they had me look at the toilet water damage. They never intended on having me do that work. Above is the exact email he sent me after I asked "why do you want a cost break down per job."


Since the contractor was already paid before they bought it, it sounds like they were either thinking about giving the original guy the boot, or maybe he wasn't able to finish and that's why they were going to do the underlayment and wanted to see how much it all would cost... in flips, time is money... Since he was paid for the work already, they may just not have time to wait for him...

But they still asked for a bid for the other work... just bid it and move on...

BTW, did you mean to make your moniker "tucansam" not "tucnasam"?... if so, a mod can fix that for you...





tucnasam said:


> Thank you for your input!


:thumbsup:

.


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

avenge said:


> Maybe that's the problem.


Sorry, I don't understand that.

You kind of sound like my Dad though. lol


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

KAP said:


> BTW, did you mean to make your moniker "tucansam" not "tucnasam"?... if so, a mod can fix that for you...
> 
> .


Actually no. I've had it since I was 11 or 12. So I use the same one everywhere. The reason I used tucnasam is because... it is NEVER taken. TucanSam is sometimes taken.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

tucnasam said:


> I don't see anyway to avoid that.


you avoid it by not answering the questions. Something similar happened last week and I was quick to politely wrap up the meeting by telling them why I couldn't help them and move on down the road.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Get over it.
> 
> And don't pretend you don't do the same thing when you shop cars.


I honestly dont. I deal with the salesman who offers me their best price out of the gate. I aint a haggler. 

A commodity and a service are polar opposites. I deal with people who understand that. Or try to.


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## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

Being you're young and in business for a short time my biggest advice is.......

ALWAYS FOLLOW YOUR GUT!!!

When ever I've ignored it I've regreted it. Everytime!

Sometimes you can screen them at the first call. But if you get there and the red flags come up (need bids right away. The other guy didn't do blah blah) or if they are flippers or younger first time buyers. They want you to give them the info so they can budget how much it will cost them to tackle it themself and how much they will save not hiring you. You can't afford to invest yourself to help them for free. If it was a legit call then they would have asked you to just fix something or an estimate for it. 

I find the biggest waste of time is looking at jobs where ........the are buying a house and need estimates. They are about to put the house on the market and need you to fix a bunch of things (if you do quality work then they want it cheap and fast). They need work done on a rental and they are managing it themself (no property manager) again they want fast and cheap. 

You're a craftsman who can only do so much by yourself to make a living and you can't do that by volunteering to do all the homework for a homeowner or flipper. Your better of staying at home organizing your tools for the ready then chasing your tail for their amusement. 

When ever I have found that my gut is telling me to not ignore the flags and I'm in the middle of getting them some numbers. I just stop and email them that some other jobs have asked me to start right away. so I will just have to gracefully bow out of your project and so I hope everything turns out ok for them.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Jaws said:


> I honestly dont. I deal with the salesman who offers me their best price out of the gate. I aint a haggler.
> 
> A commodity and a service are polar opposites. I deal with people who understand that. Or try to.


You're not haggling because they already know to give you the best price... you're "pre-haggled"... :whistling :laughing:


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

Your instincts seem to be good----

This one is a time waster----at this type to your list of people that set off the warning bells.

Realestate sales people will do this to you,too, if you allow it---c


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## DonBigote (Jan 14, 2016)

Unger.const said:


> Being you're young and in business for a short time my biggest advice is.......
> 
> ALWAYS FOLLOW YOUR GUT!!!
> 
> ...


Good advice there. I agree that the real estate leads you mentioned tend to be a waste of time, when there are other opportunities to be had.

However, I've had some good results with referrals from a home inspector, plus he gives me a detailed report of issues, which saves me that hassle. Usually I'll give a quick, rough estimate for a pending homebuyer, then follow up in detail after they close on the house.

I see that OP is in a similar situation (GC/handyman) as mine. My general rule when dealing with real estate people is if your name is not on the property title, we're not making a deal and there's not much else to discuss.


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## Lanya LaPunta (Oct 31, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Get over it.
> 
> And don't pretend you don't do the same thing when you shop cars.


I believe that there is quite a difference. When one is shopping for a vehicle, the sales rep does not bring several different models to your home. 

Even at that, this would be more akin to that rep bringing several vehicles, as you were shopping "fleet". The rep sends a proposal and you inform said rep that you didn't budget for that many, and some of your fleet vehicles are still under warranty and the previous sales rep was supposed to get them fixed .....

Try calling a car dealership and see how many respond.


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## deckman22 (Oct 20, 2007)

Your first mistake was going out on a sunday, never ever do calls on sunday. They wanted you on sunday so the other guy wouldn't be there. 

Never work for house flippers either, total waste of your time. Soon as you get a wiff they are a house flipper............walk away or run.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

Jaws said:


> I honestly dont. I deal with the salesman who offers me their best price out of the gate. I aint a haggler.


with you 100% just bought a new truck, had a plan of attack, and wasn't settling for any bs games. I walk out the door the second a customer starts playing games with my prices. So I don't play games with others.

Ended up with a no bs sale, excellent price didn't have to ask them to lower the cost at all, they did it for me. They even drove the thing 2 hrs one way to my front door a couple days after being at the dealership. 

As for the OP, get used to it, potential customers will use and abuse you. I learned the hard way over the years and now I'm on the defensive if something smells fishy. As much as you want to be a dick with these people I smile and say thanks for calling me, offer some quick advice and run as fast as I can. 

I went and looked at a job once not knowing any better, a painter dripped paint on their custom barn wood kitchen cabinet doors. They were using me for a price so they could screw the painter over. Doors were not sealed which was idiotic in my opinion) The lady kept hounding me for a bid to replace the doors, I wouldn't do it. I emailed her a "ballpark" (low balled) but she needed a legit bid to stick it to the painter.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

tucnasam said:


> This is true. Except when you go to a job to look a it for the "customer" only to find them asking you a lot of questions so they will then know how to do it themselves.
> 
> I don't see anyway to avoid that.


Someone asks me a question I don't want to answer, I may just tell them all that stuff is on youtube now.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Improve your quoting skills. Learn to make small quotes - let's say that for the sake of your business that means under $2K - quickly. For handyman-level stuff, be prepared to discuss day charges, to explain why a $300 job broken out of a $1000 job, becomes a $750 job.

You should still qualify aggressively, still notice the red flags, still walk away when your gut says to walk away. But it all does get simpler if you can quickly offer them your price and let them make the decision.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Charge them to do any more quotes.


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## Unger.const (Jun 3, 2012)

Well?? How did this turn out?


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## tucnasam (Feb 1, 2016)

Never heard back from her. I don't know anything else about the job since firing her. Moved on and got a few more jobs from respectful customers.


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