# Can you place a lien with no permit?



## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

I was wondering if you can place a lien if you didnt pull a permit? I dont need to but most work I see doesnt have a permit and I was thinking if they had to go to court over it they would get burned for not pulling a permit. Just something that popped into my head teh other day.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

State law will apply.

In my state (NM) if you aren't licensed the customer has no obligation to pay.

You will have difficulty if you didn't pull a permit when required in any event. Either you are incompetent or you ignore the rules and fair play. Either of these will act against a contractor who is trying to show that he was/is the injured party.

If I was the owner, I would argue that 
A) the job was not completed because permits were not pulled and permits are part of the job.
B) the job was improperly done which is why no permits were pulled
C) the contractor tried to hide his failure to meet minimum standards by not having competent inspections


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

Michaeljp86 said:


> I was wondering if you can place a lien if you didnt pull a permit? I dont need to but most work I see doesnt have a permit and I was thinking if they had to go to court over it they would get burned for not pulling a permit. Just something that popped into my head teh other day.


Depends on the state law as well as the city , town, township, county, etc.,


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

anyone providing services/materials to a property can file a lien...


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## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

Do it and sort it out later.


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## Michaeljp86 (Apr 10, 2007)

tnt specialty said:


> anyone providing services/materials to a property can file a lien...


 
Here in MI you have to join the construction lien fund to be able to place a lien.


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## ABQcarpenter (May 6, 2010)

*Thom is way off!*



thom said:


> State law will apply.
> 
> In my state (NM) if you aren't licensed the customer has no obligation to pay.
> 
> ...


This is not true at all, in NM according to Stat 48:






*48-2-2. Mechanics and materialmen; lien; labor, equipment and materials furnished; definition of agent of owner. *

Here is the full document for NM Thom.
www dot conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&2.0

(the word dot after www is actualy . the TOS will not allow me to post a URL since this is my first posting.)

Every person performing labor upon, providing or hauling equipment, tools or machinery for or furnishing materials to be used in the construction, alteration or repair of any mine, building, wharf, bridge, ditch, flume, tunnel, fence, machinery, railroad, road or aqueduct to create hydraulic power or any other structure, who performs labor in any mine or is a registered surveyor or who surveys real property has a lien upon the same for the work or labor done, for the specific contract or agreed upon charge for the surveying or equipment, tools or machinery hauled or provided or materials furnished by each respectively, whether done, provided, hauled or furnished at the instance of the owner of the building or other improvement or his agent. Every contractor, subcontractor, architect, builder or other person having charge of any mining or of the construction, alteration or repair, either in whole or in part, of any building or other improvement shall be held to be the agent of the owner for the purposes of this section. 



This is the 2009 NM state statute!


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## CookeCarpentry (Feb 26, 2009)

ABQ - nice first post!


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## ABQcarpenter (May 6, 2010)

*This highlights who can claim lien.*

*48-2-6. Time for filing lien claim; contents. *

Every original contractor, within one hundred and twenty days after the completion of his contract, and every person, except the original contractor, desiring to claim a lien pursuant to Sections 48-2-1 through 48-2-19 NMSA 1978, must, within ninety days after the completion of any building, improvement or structure, or after the completion of the alteration or repair thereof, or the performance of any labor in a mining claim, file for record with the county clerk of the county in which such property or some part thereof is situated, a claim containing a statement of his demands, after deducting all just credits and offsets. The claim shall state the name of the owner or reputed owner, if known, and also the name of the person by whom he was employed, or to whom he furnished the materials, and shall include a statement of the terms, time given and the conditions of the contract, and also a description of the property to be charged with the lien, sufficient for identification. The claim must be verified by the oath of himself or of some other person.

I can't find the provision for "licensed contractor" or "build permit" anywhere.
If you are working on a property for a home owner or landlord and all your doing is installing new carpet and tile, why would you pull a permit?
If the owner or landlord stiffs you what is the remedy?
Wah, he won't pay me? No, you send him a notice to file lien and and after a month if they don't pay you you file the lien with the county clerk, make sure you have given proper notice with the notice to file and then sue the dead beat!

I've got 4 against the same dead beat landlord right now.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Michaeljp86 said:


> I was wondering if you can place a lien if you didnt pull a permit? I dont need to but most work I see doesnt have a permit and I was thinking if they had to go to court over it they would get burned for not pulling a permit. Just something that popped into my head teh other day.



I live & work in rural counties in the country where there are no permits required to work. I would sure like to think if I ever had to, I could still file a lein for non payment.


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## J L (Nov 16, 2009)

You can file a lien without a permit and be paid for it. Happened to me 3 years ago on my first job with my company.:furious: We did lots of misc. work - painting, added crown molding, etc. Stuff that didn't require any permits. Project started at 5k and grew to 12k. Apparently the client only had 9k..... 

Fortunately we had all our contract docs in a row (including the change orders) and when we didn't receive our payment per the payment schedule, we stopped work. Client gave me the run around so we filed a lien. A year later I got a call from some mortgage company asking if I had a lien on the house. I said we did and I sent the total to them including all the months of interest. The next week a check came in the mail:clap:


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## JumboJack (Aug 14, 2007)

thom said:


> State law will apply.
> 
> In my state (NM) if you aren't licensed the customer has no obligation to pay.
> 
> ...


So an employee of a contractor could not file a lien if they (the employee) was not paid for their work if their boss did not pull the required permit?
:whistling
Are employees supposed to check and make sure their employer has pulled the proper permits before starting work?


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## SAH (May 6, 2010)

As far as I know, if you have a signed contract or purchase orders to provide a service or material, you can throw a lien on it within a set number of days for non payment.


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## Jeff G (Apr 5, 2010)

According to a lawyer friend of mine who is well versed in these matters (and whom I trust is in the know, as he predominately deals in construction litigation) tells me that even if there isn't a signed contract, one still has legal recourse if unpaid. One simply needs to be able to prove that work/service has been provided to client in default. As I understand, it is for obvious reasons more difficult than if there is a signed contract available, but certainly still possible.


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