# Paint experts, please analize these pictures for me



## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

Im a general contractor who subbed out an exterior paint job on a home. In these pictures you see streaks or what appears to be uneven coverage. These streaks only appear in the shade and only from a particular angle. It can be seen up close. The pattern of the streaks suggests its not the spraying technique of my painters. If you go up close to find these streaks, you will not be able to see any unevenness in the application. 


The paint is sprayed on. The product is resilience from sherwin williams in flat. Please analyze and give me your opinions. thank you.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Did you backbrush?


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## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

VinylHanger said:


> Did you backbrush?



No. Just sprayed


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

jacselee said:


> No. Just sprayed


I hate painting and despise that I know as much about it as I do.

I have been forced in to it due to various circumstances.

IMO, not back brushing/rolling is a huge mistake.

I also know that most of the problems in painting are due to poor prep and then not following the manufacturers specs as to application.

Was the area primed prior to finish coat?

How many coats were applied?


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Looks like prepping/priming issues to me.


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

1st pic looks like lap marks from where they stopped spraying, moved the ladder and started again, 2nd and 3rd looks like they blew a patch with another gallon that wasn't quite the same color.

How long ago was it done and how many coats?


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## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

carzie said:


> 1st pic looks like lap marks from where they stopped spraying, moved the ladder and started again, 2nd and 3rd looks like they blew a patch with another gallon that wasn't quite the same color.
> 
> How long ago was it done and how many coats?


Done two weeks ago, 2 coats. I don't believe those are lap marks. I watched them spray past and onto window trim. They masked window and painted trim white afterwards.


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## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

jacselee said:


> Im a general contractor who subbed out an exterior paint job on a home. In these pictures you see streaks or what appears to be uneven coverage. These streaks only appear in the shade and only from a particular angle. It can be seen up close. The pattern of the streaks suggests its not the spraying technique of my painters. If you go up close to find these streaks, you will not be able to see any unevenness in the application.
> 
> 
> The paint is sprayed on. The product is resilience from sherwin williams in flat. Please analyze and give me your opinions. thank you.


Starts and stops. Overlapping. Have them do it again but backroll from corner to corner.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Quality_PTG said:


> Starts and stops. Overlapping. Have them do it again but backroll from corner to corner.


I agree with this plus the fact the darkness of the color could have required a primer and I think resilience is total crap.


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

If you click on the 1st pic it enlarges, you can see the darker areas better. They're all over the place and not just in a line where lapping would occur. Did they do a full prime or just spot and did you watch them do 2 coats?


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## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

carzie said:


> If you click on the 1st pic it enlarges, you can see the darker areas better. They're all over the place and not just in a line where lapping would occur. Did they do a full prime or just spot and did you watch them do 2 coats?


They did not prime. I didn't see them do two coats but I've worked with them before and they are honest


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

jacselee said:


> They did not prime. I didn't see them do two coats but I've worked with them before and they are honest


I have no clue what the condition was before or how it was prepped. But regardless with that color I would have primed first.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Your painter might be honest but incometence caused the failure because Resilience requires a primer on new surfaces. They have to now use a primer tinted in body color and they should use a satin finish for the final coat. 

The variations are a result of foreign substances accrued by the siding which is why up close you see no variation in coverage. Light from a distance reveals what was there that you could not see until a color was applied.

Personally i would pressure wash before using the primer but i doubt your painter would do that for free even though he failed proper application.

Good luck


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

Don't know what the color of the house before painting, but like others have said..... I think a tinted primer would have yielded better results for sure. Especially, with a color that deep.


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## hrdwrkr (Aug 11, 2015)

jac...was the house powerwashed before paint..the second picture looks like pwerwash marks


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

It's telegraphing something underneath - power washing, spot priming, sponge marks from cleaning, or they weren't careful about full coverage on the second coat. It needs another coat.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Wonder if they applied paint while too much moisture still on the siding.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

If the underlying question is whether it's the painter's fault, yes, it is. A properly done job shouldn't show that. The typical excuses - different batches were different colors, e.g. - are things that a professional should be able to avoid.


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## Ohio painter (Dec 4, 2011)

I am also in the camp of it he issue being it should have had a primer, too late now so I would apply another coat and makes sure it gets brushed.

Resilience should give you a nice finish. 

One other point even though I know you are not asking, only painting the flat surface of the window trim is unacceptable to me, the side of the window trim should also be painted so the window looks correct. This drives me crazy, most people don't notice.


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## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

Ohio painter said:


> I am also in the camp of it he issue being it should have had a primer, too late now so I would apply another coat and makes sure it gets brushed.
> 
> Resilience should give you a nice finish.
> 
> One other point even though I know you are not asking, only painting the flat surface of the window trim is unacceptable to me, the side of the window trim should also be painted so the window looks correct. This drives me crazy, most people don't notice.


The French cut. I would at least do all the pieces that come out further than the verticals


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

The first coat would have been a suitable undercoating to prevent the second coat absorbing in and causing unevenness. So it isn't an undercoat issue. 

What airless did he use? What shape was it in? If he used throat seal lubricant or any airless oil lubricant in his airless and the packings are worn, the throat seal oil can get into the paint and cause splotchy-ness. This would show up more in dark colors than light.

In order to achieve dark colors, there's usually a less solids to pigment ratio than with light colors. Add to that the resins don't get mixed in evenly if under boxed, requiring more thorough mixing before and during spraying. 

I couldn't see back-rolling as the lap siding is too narrow and back brushing is a laborious time waster. 

You could have a paint rep come out and look at it. Slight splotchy-ness with dark colors immediately after spraying isn't uncommon and will even out over time, but that looks like more than "slight" splotchy-ness from resins needing time (a week) to weather and even out.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Caslon said:


> The first coat would have been a suitable undercoating to prevent the second coat absorbing in and causing unevenness. So it isn't an undercoat issue.
> 
> What airless did he use? What shape was it in? If he used throat seal lubricant or any airless oil lubricant in his airless and the packings are worn, the throat seal oil can get into the paint and cause splotchy-ness. This would show up more in dark colors than light.
> 
> ...


As with a lot of high quality dark paints nowadays, spraying dark colors can be a challenge without the labor intensive back-rolling or back-brushing. With all the pigment they add to get the color that deep and all the exotic resins to make the paint last longer, spraying dark "flat" paints can be a challenge in order not to see unevenness in appearance afterwards. 

One paint company I bought from took heed from us painters and re-formulated their high quality exterior flat paints so as to dry more evenly when spraying dark colors.
They reformulated that paint to dry more "flat" looking and yet have the same resins to make it durable.

No doubt about it, it can be a challenge to spray today's high resin dark flat paints without having to back roll or back brush to get an even finish. Painters who spray "flat" dark colors shouldn't have to do that.

I feel for your painting contractor, having to do it all again. Your painter should get a rep out there...see what he says.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Caslon said:


> The first coat would have been a suitable undercoating to prevent the second coat absorbing in and causing unevenness. So it isn't an undercoat issue.
> 
> What airless did he use? What shape was it in? If he used throat seal lubricant or any airless oil lubricant in his airless and the packings are worn, the throat seal oil can get into the paint and cause splotchy-ness. This would show up more in dark colors than light.
> 
> ...


In looking at the first pic it appears those are new clapboards and since resilience requires a primer how would the first coat have been suitable? Ive used this exact product many times and have never had that flashing issue but Ive also never believed the "pre primed" claim on any siding. Im just trying to understand if you are claiming flat is essentially primer and that is why it is not an undercoat issue.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

CompleteW&D said:


> Don't know what the color of the house before painting, but like others have said..... I think a tinted primer would have yielded better results for sure. Especially, with a color that deep.


Would you put a primer directly over that finish? To me the film from the two coats would prevent the primer from penetrating directly into the siding which means even though it would repair the flashing it would reduce the life of the work as well.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Caslon said:


> The first coat would have been a suitable undercoating to prevent the second coat absorbing in and causing unevenness. So it isn't an undercoat issue.


I disagree that primer would not have helped especially under Resilience.



Skyvorima said:


> Would you put a primer directly over that finish? To me the film from the two coats would prevent the primer from penetrating directly into the siding which means even though it would repair the flashing it would reduce the life of the work as well.


How's primer over the finish reduce the life? It doesn't have to penetrate and I don't think anyone is suggesting priming it at this point.


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## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

Quality_PTG said:


> The French cut. I would at least do all the pieces that come out further than the verticals



French cut? Interesting, I've never heard it called that. 

I've always heard it referred to as a west coast or California edge. V/S and east coast edge where the returns are painted trim color.

I don't think it's an issue of "right" or "wrong" just a stylistic difference. 

In this area one would expect to see an east coast edges on older homes. On newer homes, especially ones with Hardee type siding and vinyl windows the west coast edge is more common.


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## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> French cut? Interesting, I've never heard it called that.
> 
> I've always heard it referred to as a west coast or California edge. V/S and east coast edge where the returns are painted trim color.
> 
> ...


I do it more in a perspective type thing. Windows and doors that can be seen obviously get the 'French cut' areas that are really high or less obvious get the returns sprayed in


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> I disagree that primer would not have helped especially under Resilience.
> 
> 
> 
> How's primer over the finish reduce the life? It doesn't have to penetrate and I don't think anyone is suggesting priming it at this point.


Primer binds the topcoat to the siding but that cannot happen since two topcoats of finish have already been applied so the primer will not come into direct contact with the siding. Have you ever used the tape test for removing paint from trim? Same principle in play.

Simply applying more coats of Resilience will definitely reduce the life because there are good reasons why the instructions require priming. I doubt simply another coat would remove the flashing problems as well.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Skyvorima said:


> In looking at the first pic it appears those are new clapboards...


 New unpainted siding? He didn't say. I doubt that. Are you telling me that his prior coat being a finish coat instead of a primer coat is the reason for the unevenness ? Give me a break, please.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Caslon said:


> So what? Are you telling me that his prior coat being a finish coat and not a primer coat is the reason? Give me a break, please.


Why do you think Resilience requries a primer?


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> Primer binds the topcoat to the siding but that cannot happen since two topcoats of finish have already been applied so the primer will not come into direct contact with the siding. Have you ever used the tape test for removing paint from trim? Same principle in play.
> 
> Simply applying more coats of Resilience will definitely reduce the life because there are good reasons why the instructions require priming. I doubt simply another coat would remove the flashing problems as well.


None of that makes any sense.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> None of that makes any sense.


What do you think is the purpose of primer?


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Skyvorima said:


> Why do you think Resilience requries a primer?



What his painters problem is...is not due to them not having used a primer as their first coat. Primer used or not, his first coat would have acted as such, preventing the paint from absorbing differently. The problem lies elsewhere.

I take it the siding was not new bare wood beforehand.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Caslon said:


> What his painters problem is...is not due to them not having used a primer as their first coat. Primer used or not, his first coat would have acted as such, preventing the paint from absorbing here but not there. Simple as that. The problem lies elsewhere. Try and think before you post the obvious.
> 
> The Original Poster didn't say whether the siding was new. From the old looks of the trim, it looks as if the siding got painted before, altho the siding does look new.
> 
> OP?


Why do you think Resilience requires a primer?

What you said here is a common misconception:

"his first coat would have acted as such, preventing the paint from absorbing here but not there."

That is false because Resilience flat finish is not the same as a primer. That might be the reason Resilience requires a primer on new surfaces (or even recently scraped/sanded if it's hitting the siding directly).

The reason a third coat will not correct the problem is because the siding will continue sucking up the Resilience where ever it pleases causing flashing regardless if it is sprayed, rolled or brushed.

I have no problem with people claiming we should ignore manufacturer's instructions but they should at least attempt an explanation as to why.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> What do you think is the purpose of primer?


According to you you can't put primer over paint and how the hell does an additional coat reduce the life?

I said primer would have helped with that dark color before not after the fact. But even after the fact you're saying it can't be done that's stupid, The problem is due to the application method with that dark color. If it were my job I would roll on another coat.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> According to you you can't put primer over paint and how the hell does an additional coat reduce the life?
> 
> I said primer would have helped with that dark color before not after the fact. But even after the fact you're saying it can't be done that's stupid, The problem is due to the application method with that dark color. If it were my job I would roll on another coat.


I never said you cannot put primer over paint.

I said you cannot put primer over paint that was not previously primed. 

It is not the application method because the siding has not been sealed from lack of using a primer on the first coat. A third coat will still not seal it because paint is NOT primer. That siding will continue to flash without a primer because paint cures through a chemical and not a mechanical process.

It is interesting those disagreeing with my posts have refused to address the manufacture's instructions requiring a primer coat.

Get a SW Rep out there and I bet family jewels what I have said about the lack of a primer is the reason.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> I never said you cannot put primer over paint.
> 
> I said you cannot put primer over paint that was not previously primed.
> 
> ...


This is all bull**** the OP asked for a paint expert you're not one.


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## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

Just looks like lap marks to me. If indeed the Resilience was applied directly over new wood, or an otherwise unsealed, or non uniform surface then I can see that being the cause. If that is the case, then I agree that another coat likely would not help. Resilience doesn't have the self priming/sealing properties that many other modern acrylics exhibit. Though one might expect the flat to preform that job reasonably well anyway, I certainly wouldn't count on it, especially in a deep color. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the problem was rooted in an over saturation of colorant. Ever since Sherwin tweaked their glycol colorants to meet VOC regs, their performance has seemed to suffer. Most notably in deep base colors when the colorant levels approach the maximum allowed. I've seen issues with 'pigment flop and metameric failure with some deep base SW products, Resilience in particular. 

That's why we use Gennex paints almost exclusively these days. The increased performance of waterborne colorants, particularly in deep base colors makes it a no brainier.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> This is all bull**** the OP asked for a paint expert you're not one.


It is strange you have not been able to provide any explanations for what you have claimed and you have repeatedly failed to address the reasons the manufacturer states Resilience requires a primer.

Go ahead and email SW and tell them how the first coat of Resilience would seal the siding so that later coats would not flash.

Look forward to reading those emails.

Otherwise, have a great day.


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## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> I never said you cannot put primer over paint.
> 
> I said you cannot put primer over paint that was not previously primed.
> 
> ...


Sherwin will only warranty the affected areas. They say to use a primer because it helps provide an even coating, but flats and satins are self priming; so the paint HAS bonded to the substrate. Putting another coat me help make the finish look less flashy. What the painters should do is shake every gallon/pail before it's used. That could be another issue with the finish, the pigments and paint not being fully mixed. 

Acrylics dry by coalesence by the way. Meaning when the second coat is applied the first coat is reactivated (somewhat) and the two coats dry together.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Just looks like lap marks to me. If indeed the Resilience was applied directly over new wood, or an otherwise unsealed, or non uniform surface then I can see that being the cause. If that is the case, then I agree that another coat likely would not help. Resilience doesn't have the self priming/sealing properties that many other modern acrylics exhibit. Though one might expect the flat to preform that job reasonably well anyway, I certainly wouldn't count on it, especially in a deep color.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if the problem was rooted in an over saturation of colorant. Ever since Sherwin tweaked their glycol colorants to meet VOC regs, their performance has seemed to suffer. Most notably in deep base colors when the colorant levels approach the maximum allowed. I've seen issues with 'pigment flop and metameric failure with some deep base SW products, Resilience in particular.
> 
> That's why we use Gennex paints almost exclusively these days. The increased performance of waterborne colorants, particularly in deep base colors makes it a no brainier.


It is not necessarily an exclusive problem as lap marks would be accentuated more on a non primed surface but since we know a primer was not used it seems pretty straight forward.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Skyvorima said:


> I never said you cannot put primer over paint.
> 
> I said you cannot put primer over paint that was not previously primed.


Before we get ridiculous, the OP didn't mention whether he was starting out with new wood siding or previously painted siding.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> It is strange you have not been able to provide any explanations for what you have claimed and you have repeatedly failed to address the reasons the manufacturer states Resilience requires a primer.
> 
> Go ahead and email SW and tell them how the first coat of Resilience would seal the siding so that later coats would not flash.
> 
> ...


When it's total bull**** you're posting then I'm not going to waste time in depth responding nor will I waste my time asking a paint rep. Evidently you're assuming the original siding has never been primed, you don't know jack**** and you're talking out of your ass.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Quality_PTG said:


> Sherwin will only warranty the affected areas. They say to use a primer because it helps provide an even coating, but flats and satins are self priming; so the paint HAS bonded to the substrate. Putting another coat me help make the finish look less flashy. What the painters should do is shake every gallon/pail before it's used. That could be another issue with the finish, the pigments and paint not being fully mixed.
> 
> Acrylics dry by coalesence by the way. Meaning when the second coat is applied the first coat is reactivated (somewhat) and the two coats dry together.


If a flat finish is self priming why does SW require a primer on the Resilience flat? Primer seals the surface which is what creates an even finish. Since this siding was not sealed flashing is the only logical result.


Flats and satins are NOT self priming and if you continue to claim they are please provide us with manufacturer specs that support your claim. I realize some companies are trying to sell the "self priming" products but they are not reliable for any professional and what you are claiming is quite different. Sharing some properties is not the same on any scale.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> When it's total bull**** you're posting then I'm not going to waste time in depth responding nor will I waste my time asking a paint rep. Evidently you're assuming the original siding has never been primed, you don't know jack**** and you're talking out of your ass.


Seems to me you've been spending quite a bit of time responding already and the reason you will not email SW about your claim is because you know it is not true.

Even if the original siding claimed to be "preprimed" it still needs primer before applying Resilience flat.

Between the two of us Im the only one offering independent verification while all you do is hurl insults.

Good luck with that.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Caslon said:


> Before we get ridiculous, the OP didn't mention whether he was starting out with new wood siding or previously painted siding.



He said he didnt know what the original color was which means he did not see it before it was painted. Judging by the first pic it looks like new siding which is what I posted a while ago.

Even if it was the preprimed siding Resilience still requires priming because the quality of primer they use is somewhere between Kardashian and Casey Anthony family values.

It is not simply lap marks because too much pigment has been removed by the siding sucking it out.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

A prior finish paint was sprayed on first. It wasn't a primer. Get the hell over that. Unless the boards were bare, spraying on a first finish coat would provide a surface for the second sprayed on coat to go on evenly. If after that it looks crummy, the problem lies elsewhere. Stop talking about how a primer is needed (if siding previously painted).

If you have lap siding that is sound but super weathered, spraying on just one coat might result in uneven absorption of the paint, resulting in unevenness, but the guy sprayed on a first coat (supposedly). His first coat would have allowed his second coat to lay on just fine and dandy. 

The problem lies elsewhere other than primers must be used first and crap like that (providing the siding wasn't new wood).

Read back my earlier posts about how spraying dark colored "flat" exterior paints can be a real challenge. They're not flat anymore. They have a slight sheen to them which makes spraying deep colors a *****. 

Here's where spray backrollers and spray back brushers have their satisfaction. lol


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> Seems to me you've been spending quite a bit of time responding already and the reason you will not email SW about your claim is because you know it is not true.
> 
> Even if the original siding claimed to be "preprimed" it still needs primer before applying Resilience flat.
> 
> ...


You've offered no remedy to the OP's situation. According to you, you can't prime over paint and you can't apply another coat. So what's the remedy? I have no options but to resort to name calling and quit bringing up SW reps.


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## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> He said he didnt know what the original color was which means he did not see it before it was painted. Judging by the first pic it looks like new siding which is what I posted a while ago.
> 
> Even if it was the preprimed siding Resilience still requires priming because the quality of primer they use is somewhere between Kardashian and Casey Anthony family values.
> 
> It is not simply lap marks because too much pigment has been removed by the siding sucking it out.


Where does Sherwin specify that shop primer isn't worthy of their paint? 

Is shop primer good? No, but it SEALS in the wood to help provide an even finish. 

I don't use SW paint on an even somewhat basis because they are to expensive for the crap they sell. So I'm not completely aware of there self priming properties. Is self priming the best option? Well, no of course not, but it works. Priming in this instance would have been beneficial for colour coverage and consistency. Primer would also help to prevent premature paint failure, but it's not always needed.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Sky...quit while you're behind. Address the issue at hand in a way that makes it seem like you been there before. The siding was undercoated with a top quality paint. So freaking what if it wasn't a primer (if the siding wasn't new).

Was it new siding? OP?

Even then, that first sprayed on coat would allow the final sprayed on coat to cover without any absorption and cover evenly without splotches. So the problem lies elsewhere. 
Try and comprehend that...please! Stop talking primers and paint specs already.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Caslon said:


> Sky...quit while you're behind. Address the issue at hand in a way that makes it seem like you been there before. The siding was undercoated with a top quality paint. So freaking what if it wasn't a primer (if the siding wasn't new).
> 
> Was it new siding? OP?
> 
> ...


You keep repeating it is not a primer issue but provide absolutely nothing in support and you ignore the fact the instructions say a primer is required on new surfaces.

Since you keep claiming it isnt a primer problem then contact SW and ask them to confirm your claim as you have offered nothing qualifying your opinion.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> You've offered no remedy to the OP's situation. According to you, you can't prime over paint and you can't apply another coat. So what's the remedy? I have no options but to resort to name calling and quit bringing up SW reps.



My first post is #13. I clearly tell him how to correct the problem by pressure washing then using a tinted primer.

No apology for your false accusation is necessary as ive already forgiven you.

I also said simply priming over the topcoat will reduce the life of the product. You cannot put primer over paint on a surface that was not primed and expect the same quality.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

I know its a paint question. However I would just like to point out that the windows, as now installed are going to leak.
:blink:


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Quality_PTG said:


> Where does Sherwin specify that shop primer isn't worthy of their paint?
> 
> Is shop primer good? No, but it SEALS in the wood to help provide an even finish.
> 
> I don't use SW paint on an even somewhat basis because they are to expensive for the crap they sell. So I'm not completely aware of there self priming properties. Is self priming the best option? Well, no of course not, but it works. Priming in this instance would have been beneficial for colour coverage and consistency. Primer would also help to prevent premature paint failure, but it's not always needed.


"Studies have shown that a two coat, field applied system consisting of one coat primer, one coat topcoat will generally outperform a two coat system of two coats of topcoat." 
http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/library/coatings/paintingrecommend.html#products

Shop primer is not only poor quality but it also fades fast so if you dont prime it is always a poor risk.


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## Jmayspaint (Apr 20, 2014)

Here's a thought, could it be surfactant leaching perhaps? Resilience is supposed to be more resistant to that than other paints, but in the right weather conditions it could still happen. Easy enough to find out. Wash an area where the streaks appear with clean water (only, no cleaners) thoroughly and let it dry. If that fixes the problem you have your answer

To comment on factory primers, in most cases I find them to be barely adequate provided they're finish painted in the allotted time span. All the ones I'm familiar with need to be painted fairly quickly after exposure to the elements or they start to deteriorate. Even then most of them are chalky and don't seal the surface very well.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Resilience cures very slowly. Even more so in deep bases. I found it to be a frustrating product that did not do what it was supposed to do (ie resist light rain during application). Superpaint is far superior at resisting rain, drying and curing. Hate resilience sooo much. 

As for the little flashing issue, 3 months of weather will cover the home in dirt, oil and general haze problem solved. 

And yes, back rolling is the way to avoid these issues. The stipple effect creates and uniform texture that really hides a lot of imperfections in the surface.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

SmallTownGuy said:


> I know its a paint question. However I would just like to point out that the windows, as now installed are going to leak.
> :blink:


not if they are sliders..


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Skyvorima said:


> You keep repeating it is not a primer issue but provide absolutely nothing in support and you ignore the fact the instructions say a primer is required on new surfaces.
> 
> Since you keep claiming it isnt a primer problem then contact SW and ask them to confirm your claim as you have offered nothing qualifying your opinion.


You sir, are a dufus. Qualify that with whomever.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

P.S. About that blue siding that sprayed out crummy. It will be interesting what the paint rep says. "Let's see....2 coats you sprayed on?" "Hmmm." "Over a previously painted surface...not bare wood?"

Even I have to wonder what the hell happened.

My 3 guesses are: Paint faulty. Paint not boxed enough. Airless throat seal oil mixing in with the paint due to worn packings.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> My first post is #13. I clearly tell him how to correct the problem by pressure washing then using a tinted primer.
> 
> No apology for your false accusation is necessary as ive already forgiven you.
> 
> I also said simply priming over the topcoat will reduce the life of the product. You cannot put primer over paint on a surface that was not primed and expect the same quality.


So your recommend doing what you don't recommend doing. WTF


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> So your recommend doing what you don't recommend doing. WTF


It appears you are not here in the spirit of the board but mainly to attempt to lift yourself up through trying to step on others.

The problem is I assumed a detailed client level explanation would not be necessary but obviously I was so wrong.

The absolute best approach would be to completely strip all of the paint off the siding. 

Pressure wash.

Apply a primer tinted to the body color.

Spray one or two finish coats, depending on who is holding the gun. Someone with enough experience can do it without the need to backbrush or backroll. 

Obviously a complete strip is not going to be paid for by the GC, painter or SW. 

This leaves the next best step which is to pressure wash the siding to raise as much grain as possible to give the primer a place to grab beyond the two films of topcoat that were applied without a primer.

The third best step (which is the most likely one here because the GC nor the painter wants to pay for PW that was not included in the original price) is to simply use a tinted primer.

I do not recommend using primer over a topcoat that was wrongly used as a primer because without any doubt it will reduce the life of the job compared to correct applications. 

That is not the same as saying if you do this the whole freaking house will fall down tomorrow. 

If there is anything here unclear please ask and I will do my best to help you understand.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Caslon said:


> P.S. About that blue siding that sprayed out crummy. It will be interesting what the paint rep says. "Let's see....2 coats you sprayed on?" "Hmmm." "Over a previously painted surface...not bare wood?"
> 
> Even I have to wonder what the hell happened.
> 
> My 3 guesses are: Paint faulty. Paint not boxed enough. Airless throat seal oil mixing in with the paint due to worn packings.


Doesnt have to be bare wood for that failure. If those are new clapboards the problem is they did not prime before application. That is why

FOR THE SEVENTH TIME

SW instructs applicators to use a primer for NEW surfaces. Doesnt matter if it is preprimed or bare. It says NEW surfaces. 

Im beginning to understand how frustrating it must be for paint reps to deal with people who refuse to follow simple label instructions then try to figure out what went wrong.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> If there is anything here unclear please ask and I will do my best to help you understand.


The only thing clear to me is you don't have a clue. Who with any common knowledge of painting would suggest stripping off the paint, that's ridiculous. Again tell me how it's improper to prime over a topcoat, which totally makes no sense. I can never prime over a topcoat so this particular job can never have a primer unless it's completely stripped. According to your statement a primer is used improperly unless it is applied on a new or bare surface.



Skyvorima said:


> Doesnt have to be bare wood for that failure. If those are new clapboards the problem is they did not prime before application. That is why
> 
> FOR THE SEVENTH TIME
> 
> ...


Show me in the Resilience spec sheets the word "NEW". Which by the way in itself would also make no sense. When does it become not new? If Resilience required anything "NEW" to be primed why even use it that's ridiculous, it's junk anyway. 

And you again keep bringing up paint reps. Where do you get this idea that paint reps, SW in particular know everything.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

avenge said:


> The only thing clear to me is you don't have a clue. Who with any common knowledge of painting would suggest stripping off the paint, that's ridiculous. Again tell me how it's improper to prime over a topcoat, which totally makes no sense. I can never prime over a topcoat so this particular job can never have a primer unless it's completely stripped. According to your statement a primer is used improperly unless it is applied on a new or bare surface.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The BEST approach would be to strip off the topcoat because it was not PRIMED. You cannot expect a paint job to have the longest life when it was not properly prepped. Anyone who has been paint for more than five minutes can comprehend that principle.

Once again you are misrepresenting what was posted because I did not make a universal claim that you cannot prime over a topcoat. I said you cannot prime over a topcoat that never received proper prep and expect the paint job to last as long as one where the correct prep was completed. You can prime over this topcoat the the life of the project will be reduced due to the fact it was not primer prior to the topcoat. I also posted the link showing jobs last longer with one coat of primer and one coat of finish versus two coats of finish and no primer.

As for Resilience info:

"Backed by a Lifetime Limited Warranty* *Two coats of Resilience are required for repaint work; a primer and two coats of Resilience are required for NEW surfaces."
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/resilience_exterior_acrylic_latex/

This is the spec sheet for Resilience flat in pdf. Please note the use of primer on wood and primer for scraped/sanded surfaces:

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777820711/

Ive provided more than enough information for my remedy on this particular subject. If the OP has any questions will be glad to answer but you sir, are simply not interested in anything other than trying to bash people.


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## Quality_PTG (May 9, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> The BEST approach would be to strip off the topcoat because it was not PRIMED. You cannot expect a paint job to have the longest life when it was not properly prepped. Anyone who has been paint for more than five minutes can comprehend that principle.
> 
> Once again you are misrepresenting what was posted because I did not make a universal claim that you cannot prime over a topcoat. I said you cannot prime over a topcoat that never received proper prep and expect the paint job to last as long as one where the correct prep was completed. You can prime over this topcoat the the life of the project will be reduced due to the fact it was not primer prior to the topcoat. I also posted the link showing jobs last longer with one coat of primer and one coat of finish versus two coats of finish and no primer.
> 
> ...


Seriously? Strip the finish? Your insane, and that remedy is asinine. 

Wait a week, see if the flashing did down. If it doesn't, then do a bonding test. See you you have a good foundation for a re coat. If you don't have a good foundation then scuff sand the entire house (should take a decent crew a day) apply a coat of coverstain, then apply two new top coats. 

P.S never pressure wash a house. That's just bush. Soft wash.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Quality_PTG said:


> Seriously? Strip the finish? Your insane, and that remedy is asinine.
> 
> Wait a week, see if the flashing did down. If it doesn't, then do a bonding test. See you you have a good foundation for a re coat. If you don't have a good foundation then scuff sand the entire house (should take a decent crew a day) apply a coat of coverstain, then apply two new top coats.
> 
> P.S never pressure wash a house. That's just bush. Soft wash.


As a professional I always look for the best quality product for the customer and if I know the surface was not prepped correctly I would do it correctly. Period. Spot testing for bonding on a job where you know for a fact it was not primed when it should have been is not only unprofessional but unethical.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> The BEST approach would be to strip off the topcoat because it was not PRIMED. You cannot expect a paint job to have the longest life when it was not properly prepped. Anyone who has been paint for more than five minutes can comprehend that principle.
> 
> Once again you are misrepresenting what was posted because I did not make a universal claim that you cannot prime over a topcoat. I said you cannot prime over a topcoat that never received proper prep and expect the paint job to last as long as one where the correct prep was completed. You can prime over this topcoat the the life of the project will be reduced due to the fact it was not primer prior to the topcoat. I also posted the link showing jobs last longer with one coat of primer and one coat of finish versus two coats of finish and no primer.
> 
> ...


How the hell do you know if the surface was never primed? How do you know the surface was scraped and sanded? You have your head up your ass. Do really believe that every "NEW" surface has to be primed under Resilience? It that were the case then Resilience is basically useless. 

In this particular case the use of primer is not being recommended due to the existing surface being "NEW" or bare. It is due to the color and the crap paint. It's common knowledge that prep is the main factor for a lasting paint job, that doesn't mean that every "NEW" or previously painted surface has to be primed. According to you this job is screwed unless it's completely stripped, you are wrong.

As a professional I will depend on the spec sheet nothing else and in those there nothing abnormal nor anything concerning "NEW". You are misinterpreting the word "NEW" which is typical of SW. Go ask your know it all paint rep what exactly "NEW" means.

I think the OP has enough common sense not to ask you anything. By the way I'm not the only one totally disagreeing with you.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> As a professional I always look for the best quality product for the customer and if I know the surface was not prepped correctly I would do it correctly. Period. Spot testing for bonding on a job where you know for a fact it was not primed when it should have been is not only unprofessional but unethical.


Well that's bull if you're using Resilience you're not using the best. I assume you do a lot of paint stripping.:whistling


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

avenge said:


> Well that's bull if you're using Resilience you're not using the best. I assume you do a lot of paint stripping.:whistling


God, I hope he's not a bleeder....


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

Skyvorima said:


> Doesnt have to be bare wood for that failure. If those are new clapboards the problem is they did not prime before application. That is why
> 
> FOR THE SEVENTH TIME
> 
> ...


 "New surfaces " to me means a surface that does not have a previous coatings, and I'm sure the vast majority of painters see it this way. If SW meant any surface that doesn't have a a coating of Resiliance on it then it should be primed then they should state it that way. In my eyes if this stuff will not perform properly on previously painted and prepared surfaces then it should not be on the market. 

I found this on SW website.com, no where does it state that a full primer is needed prior to using it on previously coated wood siding.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

carzie said:


> "New surfaces " to me means a surface that does not have a previous coatings, and I'm sure the vast majority of painters see it this way. If SW meant any surface that doesn't have a a coating of Resilience on it then it should be primed then they should state it that way. In my eyes if this stuff will not perform properly on previously painted and prepared surfaces then it should not be on the market.
> 
> I found this on SW website.com, no where does it state that a full primer is needed prior to using it on previously coated wood siding.


I never said you have to use primer on wood siding that has been previously coated so your research and link was to prove something I never claimed. Resilience works great on a surface that was previously properly coated without additional primer but these are not previously coated clapboards. Obviously if you prep an area down to bare wood you have to prime.

I also never said new surface on the SW instructions means "any surface that doesn't have a a coating of Resilience on it." Not even sure where you misinterpreted that.

Look at the first pic in the op and you will see the new clapboards on the left side that have not been previously coated. The OP said they put on two coats of finish with no primer which means by common sense standards as well as SW instructions it should have been primed before putting on the two coats of finish.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

Quality_PTG said:


> Seriously? Strip the finish? Your insane, and that remedy is asinine.
> 
> Wait a week, see if the flashing did down. If it doesn't, then do a bonding test. See you you have a good foundation for a re coat. If you don't have a good foundation then scuff sand the entire house (should take a decent crew a day) apply a coat of coverstain, then apply two new top coats.
> 
> P.S never pressure wash a house. That's just bush. Soft wash.


If you have to do an adhesion test on a brand new paint job think we can agree it was not properly prepped. Correct?

Spot testing would be a complete waste of time because if you are unsure about adhesion due to lack of a primer then you already know adhesion is questionable everywhere.

Your solution says to use a decent crew to scuff sand and it could be done in a day. I dont know how you define crew but typically from my experience it is three people. After the sanding you would obviously have to rinse off the siding from the dust. 

Your solution looks like:

24 hours of labor for sanding

Rinsing siding, wait to dry.


A different solution would look like:

$70 of sprayed natural paint strip to be applied vertically at intervals, about an hour for the two sides.

Pressure wash to remove the topcoat, 5-6 hours.

But let's say when you typed "crew" you meant two guys, fine. Still 16 hours.

Can you even begin to explain why it would make more sense to spend 16-24 hours of labor that provides an inferior solution to a method that uses 8 hours and completely corrects the original mistake that also does not leave the siding with five new layers?

(Yes I would have to tape up the windows but so would you since it was a sprayed job)


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

SmallTownGuy said:


> God, I hope he's not a bleeder....



Ive seen several people complain about the paint section here due to the rudeness of posters. 

It is one thing to disagree about methods and information but the childishness of some posts here are absurd.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Skyvorima said:


> Ive seen several people complain about the paint section here due to the rudeness of posters.
> 
> It is one thing to disagree about methods and information but the childishness of some posts here are absurd.


Are you on drugs? Are you using your X-Ray vision to determine there's new wood under the paint? What you've said and continue to say is absurd.

I'm rude and childish in the other sections too, the rampant stupidity in the Painting section just gives me more opportunity to do so.

Consistent stupidity causes my rudeness, at this time you're the front-runner.


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## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

Ohio painter said:


> I am also in the camp of it he issue being it should have had a primer, too late now so I would apply another coat and makes sure it gets brushed.
> 
> Resilience should give you a nice finish.
> 
> One other point even though I know you are not asking, only painting the flat surface of the window trim is unacceptable to me, the side of the window trim should also be painted so the window looks correct. This drives me crazy, most people don't notice.


I gave them the option. If they wanted us to paint the sides of trim. It'll be more money.


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## instock (Nov 17, 2012)

There are two big dark rectangles between the windows. It is not random blotchiness. Why would lack of primer suddenly be an issue 12 inches out from a window? Maybe somebody took the masking off the windows and then decided to shoot some more paint?


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> Doesnt have to be bare wood for that failure. If those are new clapboards the problem is they did not prime before application. That is why
> 
> FOR THE SEVENTH TIME
> 
> ...



Sorry Quoted the wrong person (edit) ^

Sorry you are wrong..... Resilience requires two coats of paint over existing paint (primer not required), and primer and two finish coats over bare wood... 

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/resilience-exterior-acrylic-latex/ 

I think this is a repaint, though I haven't read where the OP confirmed this.. 

I'm not convinced that this was a true 2 coat paint job. I'm leaning on the side that this failure is a flashing issue caused by warm sun, shade from trees, and cool fall nights... 



http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/resilience-exterior-acrylic-latex/


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

jacselee said:


> I gave them the option. If they wanted us to paint the sides of trim. It'll be more money.


Ive not seen where you clarified the type and condition of the siding. You said you did not know what color it was before it was painted which indicates you did not see it at all.

The left side of the first pic shows new clapboard and with the flashing areas of where they sprayed it appears that is what they painted over.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

OP where are you located? I'm 90% certain that they sprayed a thick mil coat on, the sun got warm but the temp outside was cool, and the tree branches shaded certain areas from the sun having them flash at different temperatures.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> If you have to do an adhesion test on a brand new paint job think we can agree it was not properly prepped. Correct?
> 
> 
> Pressure wash to remove the topcoat, 5-6 hours.
> ...





You must be really good at pressure washing.... You're talking about getting a whole house down to bare wood in 6 hours? Even with a high power hot pressure washing system (which i don't have) I don't think someone could get this done in a day.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

mrcharles said:


> Sorry Quoted the wrong person (edit) ^
> 
> Sorry you are wrong..... Resilience requires two coats of paint over existing paint (primer not required), and primer and two finish coats over bare wood...
> 
> ...


It looks like you are going off more of what others say than my actual posts. I NEVER said Resilience requires a primer and two coats over previously properly painted surfaces.

A few posts ago I even said:

"Resilience works great on a surface that was previously properly coated without additional primer but these are not previously coated clapboards."

The link you gave is the same one I posted and again it says:

"Two coats of Resilience are required for repaint work; a primer and two coats of Resilience are required for new surfaces."

It does not say "bare" surfaces. It says NEW surfaces. The primary reason being factory primed materials are typically insufficient for priming due to both initial quality of the product and the fact a primer coat fades away fairly quickly so if you install preprimed clapboards that were manufactured 5 months ago it would be completely silly to think the factory prime is sufficient.

Ive also already posted the PDF to their spec sheet discussing the need to prime over wood.

So explain why you claim it says bare surfaces when it clearly says NEW surfaces? You're just like another guy that screamed SW said nothing about the instructions and NEW surfaces. Doesnt matter how many times you guys are given the direct information you simply refuse to admit to being wrong.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

OP - I have two suggestions. 

- Get the painter to meet you on site and say "what are you going to do to fix this?"

- Get a SW rep out to review what happened and how to fix it. 

I doubt this was a product related failure. 

If it was me, and I was convinced that this was a weather/tree/sun issue as I stated above I would try BRUSH painting a wall early in the morning ahead of the sun. 

Every time I've had a flashing issue I was able to fix it by a brush coat.


If this does not work then I would consider a tinted primer, followed by a top coat.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> It looks like you are going off more of what others say than my actual posts. I NEVER said Resilience requires a primer and two coats over previously properly painted surfaces.
> 
> A few posts ago I even said:
> 
> ...





Did you not see the edit I made before you posted this???? I edited that I quoted the wrong person.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Moderator - Whats the deal with the time stamp on the posts? It says 6pm, but I'm in eastern standard time and it's 2pm.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

mrcharles said:


> You must be really good at pressure washing.... You're talking about getting a whole house down to bare wood in 6 hours? Even with a high power hot pressure washing system (which i don't have) I don't think someone could get this done in a day.


First of all according to the posted pics only two sides have been painted and not a whole house.

Second, no primer was used. 

Third, they just put on this topcoat a couple of weeks ago and since no primer was used it cannot have adhered as it normally would and again, only been a couple of weeks.

Fourth, about 6 hours AFTER spraying the paint stripper.

The more you try to criticize the more you prove you are not reading nor comprehending simple posts.

Finally, for those who do not know, once you apply the stripper in vertical sequence you have created an open lip to the water behind the paint without directly hitting the siding. 

Your lack of comprehension does not transform into knowing better than others.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

mrcharles said:


> Moderator - Whats the deal with the time stamp on the posts? It says 6pm, but I'm in eastern standard time and it's 2pm.


You have to manually correct the time zone in your profile.

Sorry, dont have a Sherwin Williams link for that.


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## Skyvorima (Nov 3, 2013)

mrcharles said:


> Did you not see the edit I made before you posted this???? I edited that I quoted the wrong person.



This is the first Im seeing that you said you quoted the wrong person.

So if I owe you an apology then be sure to know it has been offered.

Out of time for this right now. Have fun guys!


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> First of all according to the posted pics only two sides have been painted and not a whole house.
> 
> Second, no primer was used.
> 
> ...





Nah I started skipping posts on page 3 and 4 because there were too many egos yelling at each other.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

OP .... Please update us on the outcome of this thread.... I'm very curious to know the cause of failure and/or resolution.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

Skyvorima said:


> You have to manually correct the time zone in your profile.
> 
> Sorry, dont have a Sherwin Williams link for that.



I'll just call my SW rep... lol


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## carzie (May 21, 2013)

Skyvorima said:


> I never said you have to use primer on wood siding that has been previously coated so your research and link was to prove something I never claimed. Resilience works great on a surface that was previously properly coated without additional primer but these are not previously coated clapboards. Obviously if you prep an area down to bare wood you have to prime.
> 
> I also never said new surface on the SW instructions means "any surface that doesn't have a a coating of Resilience on it." Not even sure where you misinterpreted that.
> 
> Look at the first pic in the op and you will see the new clapboards on the left side that have not been previously coated. The OP said they put on two coats of finish with no primer which means by common sense standards as well as SW instructions it should have been primed before putting on the two coats of finish.


 My apologies if I'm wrong, I swear in one you your posts it was stated that it should have been fully primed as per the specs for resiliance. The endless back and forth bantering gets tiresome and was only trying to end it. I wasn't trying to be rude, was not my intention, sorry if you took it as rudeness.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Maybe the Resilience ain't so resilient, kinda like the Superpaint ain't so super.

I love to hate Sherwin Williams mainly because they bought everybody around here out except Ben and jam their expensive products down our throats.

I tink the gubberment should investigate them for monopolism :jester:

I so sorely miss my MAB sea shore acrylic


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## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

Caslon said:


> Skyvorima said:
> 
> 
> > I never said you cannot put primer over paint.
> ...


Guys, It was old wood.


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## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

Skyvorima said:


> Caslon said:
> 
> 
> > The first coat would have been a suitable undercoating to prevent the second coat absorbing in and causing unevenness. So it isn't an undercoat issue.
> ...


It's old wood siding.


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## jacselee (Mar 5, 2014)

mrcharles said:


> Skyvorima said:
> 
> 
> > Doesnt have to be bare wood for that failure. If those are new clapboards the problem is they did not prime before application. That is why
> ...


It was a 2 coat job.. Trust me. Old topcoat was white. If it was two coats. I'd be able to tell. The paint is Uniform and there is no indication of pigment change at all. It just from this one angle where you see this so called flashing. 

I'm from Minnesota. It has been warm and cool. But this is the north side of home where at this time of year there the sun never hits this side.


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

Guys, it's only paint. Just paint.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Morning Wood said:


> Guys, it's only paint. Just paint.


That's what I thought too.

But painters know things we common people are not capable of understanding.


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## gbruzze1 (Dec 17, 2008)

To the OP:

I suggest you and your painter figure this problem out on your own next time and stop causing trouble on CT!!! Lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Morning Wood said:


> Guys, it's only paint. Just paint.


That's what they did and evidently just painting didn't work out.


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## A&E Exteriors (Aug 14, 2009)

griz said:


> I hate painting and despise that I know as much about it as I do.
> 
> I have been forced in to it due to various circumstances.
> 
> ...


I hate painting with a passion as well. I wouldn't say I know a lot about it, but I do do a phenomenal job when I do it. 

100% agree on the back roll , paint always looks like crap when it is skipped...not that I've ever run a sprayer. 

I like to 2 coat with tinted primer and 2 coat the paint, turns out sweet every time


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

Give the siding a month or so to weather and the bad effect should be less noticeable. It's admirable that you should notice it even if the owner didn't. Wait a month and see if the color evens out. Sprayed on deep colors can be a ***** because of all the pigment added along with the high quality resins in the paint. If it was a super super cheap paint with little acrylic resins in it, it wouldn't be a problem. Of course, that cheap deep blue paint would fade out badly in about 2 years.

Tell those guys the siding was good prep for adhesion, but the weathered siding absorbed their first finish coat differently in one area than another. From then on, spraying more finish coats caused still more slight differences in how the paint layed on the surface. If this needed an immediate fix, only way would be a deep tinted primer like Zinsser Bullseye sprayed on to get a uniform surface to begin with. 

You say it's not as bad as those pics? Maybe share those pics with your painter.


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

The above assumes your painters pressure washed that previously painted siding and it was good to go for a quality final coat sprayed on, and another for good measure. The siding looked in great shape, almost recent. 

Sorry to repeat without explaining more, but spraying on deep tinted "flat" colors can be a ***** on exteriors.


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## marinerito (Oct 1, 2008)

pressure wash very good ,spray,backrolling,again spray backrolling ,not Hot surfaces ,correctly tip size ,spray avoiding sun, that works in almost all paints for me

that looks like dirty wall and 1 coat without Back rolled

Good Preparation is a Good job


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

marinerito said:


> pressure wash very good ,spray,backrolling,again spray backrolling ,not Hot surfaces ,correctly tip size ,spray avoiding sun, that works in almost all paints for me
> 
> that looks like dirty wall and 1 coat without Back rolled
> 
> Good Preparation is a Good job


Backrolling on narrow 2 1/2" lap siding just isn't feasible. The narrow siding would make backrolling a slow if not a "slop fest" procedure from the get go.

This is in regards to painting dark "flat" exterior paints:
With today's quality flat paints having more resins in them, flat paints aren't truly flat anymore. Therefore, siding in weathered good shape that's been thoroughly washed is still not a candidate for applying two final coats of a dark color, even tho the paint will stick well and weather well. DARK COLORS will turn out looking splotchy and uneven because the paint is absorbed differently in different areas. The slight sheen factor along with the dark color, this becomes very accentuated with dark colors. You don't run into this problem when spraying light colored flat paints with a slight sheen, only deep colored flat paints with a slight sheen. If today's high quality flat paints were truly flat flat, we wouldn't be discussing this matter.

That blue siding will flatten out in about a year and the blue will look more uniform. However, if it was the opening of a historical museum (or something) just after painting, I would feel a bit concerned about how it looks now, hehe.

Spraying on some Zinnser 123 beforehand would've given that dark blue flat paint with a slight sheen its best chance to be uniform in color.

But I'm also saying that you don't necessarily need to apply a primer with lighter colored flat paints onto a well washed surface. Dark "flat" colors that have a bit of a sheen to them can be a ***** to make look right.


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## DiamondHouse (Dec 25, 2015)

*Prep/prime*



Big Shoe said:


> Looks like prepping/priming issues to me.


Agreed, a good pressure washing with some kind of cleaner couldn't have hurt any. Something is definately flashing through the paint. A good primer would ensure that all we would be looking at is the surface + paint.


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