# Where and how much?? labor rates flat rate ideas



## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

threaderman said:


> So your saying look at the job,figure the time,multiply my hourly by 1.5 ,and mark-up the parts 100%.I can do that.I imagine with bid work it is taboo to quote prices/ball-parks over the phone?


Yeah, for all the obvious reasons.

Flat rate is not as simple as increasing your prices. In most cases, I'm cheaper than an hourly guy because the job tales longer than the time alloted for task. 

Either buy the software or log each of your jobs with time, travel, material, etc and create a flat rate book.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Putty Truck said:


> Yeah, for all the obvious reasons.
> 
> Flat rate is not as simple as increasing your prices. In most cases, I'm cheaper than an hourly guy because the job tales longer than the time alloted for task.
> 
> Either buy the software or log each of your jobs with time, travel, material, etc and create a flat rate book.


Now we're getting somewhere and that is exactly what I'm working on.For some reason some flat-rate folks are not willing to divulge techniques for approaching customers or countering negative feed-back.I am here to learn as much as share what I know.If I can get more flow for busting up my body and dealing with inspectors and the rest of the headaches I'm all for it.I hate having problems with fellow plumbers as I consider us a brotherhood.


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## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

threaderman said:


> Now we're getting somewhere and that is exactly what I'm working on.For some reason some flat-rate folks are not willing to divulge techniques for approaching customers or countering negative feed-back.I am here to learn as much as share what I know.If I can get more flow for busting up my body and dealing with inspectors and the rest of the headaches I'm all for it.I hate having problems with fellow plumbers as I consider us a brotherhood.


The day I got my contractor's license is the day I ceased being a plumber and became a Businessman who owns a plumbing company. 

That w.h. you did for 550.00? Sit down and calculate every single cost from calling the supplier, to the ho calling you, picking it up, disposing of the old one....everything, okay? Don't forget insurances, payroll taxes, etc.

Now...add some profit to each and every cost. This is a stickler for many tradesmen because they feel that they don't deserve a profit for spending money on phone calls, insurance, and ads to get the business.

Add it all up and that is your minimum. 

Now add in the fear factor. Does the job scare the heck out of you and there's not a ho in the world who is going to do it? Add that in the price. Crawlers, attics, gas--- all are scary things to any sane person and we do get more money for it.

Visa versa....is the job too simple? My cheapest job is 139.00 for drain cleaning through the trap. Ideally, it should be 160.00, but it should take 10 minutes.....

What about competitors? Will you be more expensive? Maybe not, if you don't get greedy. HOs know the horror of T&M and most are relieved to know the price before the work is started. When you get the job done in a safe, clean and professional manner, believe me, they do not complain.

Got it now, bubba?


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

threaderman said:


> For some reason some flat-rate folks are not willing to divulge techniques for approaching customers or countering negative feed-back.


because most flat-rate folks have spent considerable amounts of time and money to learn these...and they aren't too keen on giving away the info for free...they'll give you the ingredients to the meal, but you gotta learn how to cook it yourself...


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Putty Truck said:


> The day I got my contractor's license is the day I ceased being a plumber and became a Businessman who owns a plumbing company.
> 
> That w.h. you did for 550.00? Sit down and calculate every single cost from calling the supplier, to the ho calling you, picking it up, disposing of the old one....everything, okay? Don't forget insurances, payroll taxes, etc.
> 
> ...


I never did a W.H. for 550.00,re-read the thread BUBBA.That's my price for labor only on a Water Heater.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

mahlere said:


> because most flat-rate folks have spent considerable amounts of time and money to learn these...and they aren't too keen on giving away the info for free...they'll give you the ingredients to the meal, but you gotta learn how to cook it yourself...


I'm good with that but why beat a guy down while he's learning the business end.I know that's my weak point.My strength is my skill and personality at this point.You gotta build on what you have.What I really need to do is learn to read past all the negative stuff ,but ON THE SAME HAND i DON'T WANT ANYONE SAYING THAT I am not willing to back up my current business practices and principles,because I do.Nice to see you Mahl even if you are a pain half the time :whistling


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## Putty Truck (Oct 6, 2007)

threaderman bubbahead said:


> easy swap-out water heater new tank, flex's, and haul away old
> $550+/-...


That's how I read it.....


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Putty Truck said:


> That's how I read it.....


 A-1 wrote that but some how it looks like my quote.Check the first couple of threads.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

Putty Truck said:


> I'm in NW Washington and the average is flat rate. The few shops who do T&M are 90.00 plus travel.
> 
> I did a 40 gallon gas w.h. today for 990.00 including everything (flat rate) and the ho was grateful. Cost for all material was 360.00.
> 
> ...


 There it is.


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

a1plumbingyakim said:


> Ok i'm in Central Washington
> Average rates for plumbers are $70-$75 /hr, nominal fuel charge, and whatever mark up you can justify on your parts.
> 
> Average 2 1/2 bath house with an allowance of $2500 for trim is about
> ...


 

There it is.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

JamesNLA said:


> Make some money boy. If you charge next to nothing for your work, it hurts the rest of us. That customer now has a benchmark, and it will come up in some discussion with his family or friends and has now infected them on a 550 swap out...Hurts us all.


*Could not agree any more, not to mention the referrals and repeats from word of mouth that go something like: "I know a plumber that'll do it for half what you were quoted, want his number??"*



smellslike$tome said:


> Threaderman, I am convinced that the idea that "I can't charge what I need to in this area, ..., etc." is a myth.


*I agree, usually a symptom of the constant "Can you bring your price down?" sole props hear from h.o's...we start to beleive that everyone is broke.*
*I simply raised prices, lost many jobs that way, but got paid more for my time on the work I did.*
*Kinda like fishing...just because there's a nibble on the line doesn't mean you start cranking the reeel...don't keep every fish thinking there aren't more to come.*
*Other note, people who budget shop also have historically proven to be the ones who expect me to allow them to stare over my shoulder and tend to suggest I'm not doing it right. (often these folks seem to like alotta curry too...weird)*



a1plumbingyakim said:


> I get a 52 gal rheem or AO SMITH for less than $200, $8 for a set of flexs.


*If you mean gas...WHERE???*
*********************************
*I have been at the solo game long enough to know that when it's slow, it's best to stick to your guns and let the "next" guy do it at the customers price.*
*For some odd demographic/logistical reason it seems like the high maintanence, low budget shoppers sneak out to prey on those who get afraid the world doesn't need plumbers anymore when work is slow in general.*
*THEN, sure as clockwork, while you're breaking your back to finish the "budget conscious" homeowners remodel...the calls come and you're owned by the cheapo bargain job, if your my competitor...thank you.*

*All things told, the ONLY thing I've seen that has a drastic effect on pricing is in area's where licenses aren't needed for the h.o. to do their own work.*
*For you guys in those area's, hats off, hopefully one day the locals will see one too many home explosions and wake up.*


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## smellslike$tome (Jan 22, 2006)

threaderman said:


> Now we're getting somewhere and that is exactly what I'm working on.For some reason some flat-rate folks are not willing to divulge techniques for approaching customers or countering negative feed-back.I am here to learn as much as share what I know.If I can get more flow for busting up my body and dealing with inspectors and the rest of the headaches I'm all for it.I hate having problems with fellow plumbers as I consider us a brotherhood.


Check out upfrontprice.com. You can get a free starter price book. It's not actually one that I use but it might be a good starting point for you, then you can pay them for the bigger book, find a different book, or make your own.


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