# New guy with important legal matter - Fraud Situation



## Reliableren (Apr 11, 2011)

Ok, it sounds like I dont have to worry sooo much now. You guys all had a lot of good suggestions. I really appreciate your responses.

I guess my main concern is that these guys get what they deserve. 

And it seems that they should, but with our justice system, I guess some scammers slip through the cracks. 

Maybe me and the boys pay their office a visit...:2guns::2guns::2guns::2guns:


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

Find the bank that did the escrow, send a certified copy of your info to the agent and bank as proof, and sit back and watch the chit fly.

Welcome to Contractor Talk


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## bluesjoc (Apr 8, 2011)

cleveman said:


> Do what the local culture mandates.
> 
> First, get your wife a boob job.
> 
> ...


:laughing: this gave me a good chuckle :thumbup:


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## Just-In-Time (Oct 23, 2008)

I would contact whomever it is that issues your license and also find out if the broker of the real estate company belongs to any local boards, if so contact them as well. One of the biggest NO NO 's they can make is the misappropriation of escrow funds....now they have not exactly done that in this situation but it sounds close...forging documents to close out an escrow account has to be up there with the No No 's!!


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## PSG (Oct 16, 2010)

Your name is on it. If you don't speak up now that you are aware of it, you could be held accountable later on. I would talk to a lawyer right away.


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## cleveman (Dec 28, 2007)

My point is that this is a pretty crazy situation and you are the man on the ground. When I say you are the man on the ground, this means you get to make the decisions.

I could never dream up such a scam.

If you associate with such people, then you have to deal with them.

Don't believe that the law or some real estate groups or a knitting club is going to be of any assistance to you.

Distance yourself from these people. In other words, don't have any thing to do with them.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Write a letter to the Title Co. & the bank detailing the fraud etc.

Then sit back & watch the fireworks.


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## Reliableren (Apr 11, 2011)

cleveman said:


> My point is that this is a pretty crazy situation and you are the man on the ground. When I say you are the man on the ground, this means you get to make the decisions.
> 
> I could never dream up such a scam.
> 
> ...


Uh, thanks Cleveman, lol, your posts are a little weird buddy, you must be one pretty unique guy?

Anyhow, yes I believe you are right some what... Not associating with this company is already an obvious. Wanna know somethin funny? The girl I spoke to at that company, (basically the one who admitted fault and wanted to resolve the situation), told me if I wanted more jobs from them they will make me their go-to contractor from now on…..:laughing:

Knitting club?????:stuart::hammer: (I'm gonna start calling you Stuart, haha)

For the rest of you guys…I appreciate the input, I will bring all of these options up with the attorney on Wednsday and keep you all updated either on here, or a new thread.


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## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

griz said:


> Write a letter to the Title Co. & the bank detailing the fraud etc.
> 
> Then sit back & watch the fireworks.


Add a cc to the Cali real estate bar..:thumbsup:


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## assets444 (Aug 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> Contact the local news station and see if this is something they would like to report on.


 :thumbsup: You could work in some exposure for your company.


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

heres one for you....

How about defamation of charactor against you, the contractor, and your business?

How about forging legal documents?
How about bank fraud?
How about the fact that when the hacks job falls apart, and the home owner sues you?

I recommend contacting an attorney, and filing a suit. I would also make a complaint with the local police department so that there is an official record.

Then I would contact the FBI regarding the bank fraud.

Point is, the more noise you make, the better position you as a business owner will be in down the road if/when things go bad. If you sit on your paws and hope nothing happens, your taking a real risk...

Lets take this one step further...

Say the hacks did a repair, in such a way, that in 6 months that repair fails and someone gets hurt? or worse, the house burns to the ground!

Your name is on the repair even though you had NO part of the repair. Geuss whos gonna be held liable?

YOU ARE!!! 

You need to get on top of this pronto and put your paw down and hard! Make it known you will not be bullied by big real estate scam artists...


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## AFOREMA1 (Jun 25, 2009)

Reliableren said:


> Will the DA be able to put these schmucks away?
> 
> What will they be able to do?
> 
> I just want justice on bastards like this for every contractor that has ever been screwed.


What they are doing is commiting fraud so take it to the police and DA also file notice and complaint with the real estate licensing board and the state against there business license. I would also consult an attorney to go after them civilly for damages to your name and the stress it has caused you.

As for you being liable for the warranty on the work it wasn't done by you it was done under fraud not your liability. Make sure you keep copies of all communications involved in this matter.


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## ContractorCore (Apr 12, 2011)

Contact the CA Real Estate Commission and an attorney.


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## AFOREMA1 (Jun 25, 2009)

And make sure you document the name number and conversation content of the girl from the company that admitted fraud she will probably need to be subpoena and deposed by your attorney.

Just don't let this thing go away either better to deal with it now than later under worse circumstances.


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## trueandsquare (Apr 20, 2011)

TxElectrician said:


> Contact the local news station and see if this is something they would like to report on.


 
I agree with this! I have been in a similar situation, but not to the point of documentation being doctored. I contacted an atty friend, he made a quick few phone calls, and all was settled, thus my name was cleared. I am also thinking that this would also have an effect on the settlement/closing/escrow of the home purchase. There are a good few hands that are tainted in this! Meaning the agents are all sitting around with their hands in their pockets doing the whistle song,,,,:whistling


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

http://www.car.org/ 

That's where I'd start.....sounds like someone needs to have the Realtor license yanked out from underneath them, and their attorney is just stalling you hoping that you'll just forget about it. They obviously needed proof of repairs by properly licensed contractor to satisfy the underwriter of the loan (my guess is that it's an FHA loan) There are always going to be shady things happening in the housing/contractor world but all bets are off if I were to find out someone was doing something similar and putting me in the middle of it like that.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

California has some really 'different' laws and rules.

Don't spent too much of YOUR time or MONEY on this, send everyone involved both a regular letter and a certified one...put them on notice

Have the letter contain what you have received, the bogus invoice and check.

Briefly explain that this is not an estimate or invoice submitted by you and the check was never received nor deposited by you.

The work on the property was not done by your company or anyone representing your company.

Any warranty work or issues should be dealt with directly with the Seller.

Make sure a copy is sent to the Seller, Buyer and the CSLB. If you have an attorney that you deal with send a copy to him for his file...just in case you do need it in the future.

Something tells me the CSLB will investigate and this will not cost you a dime if you do it right...maybe a couple hours of your time and that's it.

...

If you spend anymore than that on it, i.e. getting an attorney now it will be money out of your pocket never to be recovered plus loads of time, someone mentioned the DA would probably ignore it, they are probably right, so far you haven't been damaged as there has not been a claim, you haven't lost anything.

Let the CSLB or Buyers incur the costs to fight this, especially if you have gone on record and notified everyone...hey this wasn't me


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## AFOREMA1 (Jun 25, 2009)

Chris Johnson said:


> California has some really 'different' laws and rules.
> 
> Don't spent too much of YOUR time or MONEY on this, send everyone involved both a regular letter and a certified one...put them on notice
> 
> ...


They committed fraud inhospitable name, issued a check fraudulently in his name and informed the buyer he did the work as well as the bank. He has been damaged. But damages are not required. They committed fraud a criminal act and admitted doing it on a regular basis and both he and the buyer should follow through with police reports as part of their action against these people. Let the DA look at the complaint and decide. 

After the DA and state agencies get done with these people that will be the time to way the civil option which will be based on actual damages he did or did not suffer, not for the criminal case.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

*Why worry about it.*

This is not the crime of the century and there is no great benefit for filing a claim. Especially, since you profited from doing virtually nothing. You will have a hard time proving that they actually used your estimate for the purpose of using your license. This does not make sense unless they obtained a permit by using your license number.

I would keep the money since I see no law against cashing a check that is written to my company. Cash the check and send a certified letter stating that you will not be liable for any work that was performed as a result of your keeping the money. 

I wish people would send me $750 for every job I estimate and lose to someone else. Where is this company because I would love to send them a few estimates.


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

NO way I would allow anyone to use my license for anything, that's a good way to end up without a license. And it's a good way to end up being liable for some cheap hack job failure to cost a LOT more than some little $750 check (which btw he states he did not receive) Even if that check did show up, it sure wouldn't find it's way into my wallet. 
I agree with some of the earlier posts that talk about not putting a lot of time and especially money into pursuing this. Pass the violations onto the proper authorities and let them handle it.....in doing so you are hopefully making these criminals responsible for their actions, but also disassociating yourself from any liabilities that could possibly arise at a later date.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

AFOREMA1 said:


> They committed fraud inhospitable name, issued a check fraudulently in his name and informed the buyer he did the work as well as the bank. He has been damaged. But damages are not required. They committed fraud a criminal act and admitted doing it on a regular basis and both he and the buyer should follow through with police reports as part of their action against these people. Let the DA look at the complaint and decide.
> 
> After the DA and state agencies get done with these people that will be the time to way the civil option which will be based on actual damages he did or did not suffer, not for the criminal case.


Civil Action...That's why this country is in the condition it is in...or partly there of...think of insurance rates we all pay

The damage is not public knowledge, it is between the buyer and the seller and this fellow has been unscrupulously involved through some cleric sending him a notice which was probably suppose to not happen, but slipped through the cracks.

To date he has not been financially burdened nor accused of any poor workmanship.

I personally would let others deal with this since there has been no harm as of yet, should it escalate to harming him or his reputation than yes he is entitled to some compensation but right now if this can get resolved without having to spend his complete undivided attention than let it go.

Put everyone on notice of the events...than if something comes out of it that effects him, further pursuit is needed.


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## AFOREMA1 (Jun 25, 2009)

Chris Johnson said:


> Civil Action...That's why this country is in the condition it is in...or partly there of...think of insurance rates we all pay
> 
> The damage is not public knowledge, it is between the buyer and the seller and this fellow has been unscrupulously involved through some cleric sending him a notice which was probably suppose to not happen, but slipped through the cracks.
> 
> ...


Wow pretty much what I said.


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## Reliableren (Apr 11, 2011)

pcplumber said:


> This is not the crime of the century and there is no great benefit for filing a claim. Especially, since you profited from doing virtually nothing. You will have a hard time proving that they actually used your estimate for the purpose of using your license. This does not make sense unless they obtained a permit by using your license number.
> 
> I would keep the money since I see no law against cashing a check that is written to my company. Cash the check and send a certified letter stating that you will not be liable for any work that was performed as a result of your keeping the money.
> 
> I wish people would send me $750 for every job I estimate and lose to someone else. Where is this company because I would love to send them a few estimates.


I think there is actually a law regarding excepting money thats not actually owed to you…or is that just a MORAL, haha, I get the two confused sometimes because they usually go hand and hand.

But in this case, I may have not made it exactly clear…I received three documents to include, 

1.a copy an estimate that had been altered in a way to show that I was to do work to a property that I didnt work on,
2.a copy of an invoice showing that my company completed the work for the total of $750. (that was filled out with my company info (including MY LIC. #) on a cheap invoice from Staples.)
3. and a copy of a check written to me, with memo stating the same as the invoice.

I never even received a check for $750 (to me, thats whats weird too, why did they need to send a copy of this false transaction), and if I did receive it I would have sent it back. I'm not that hard up! haha

Thanks to all others for your comments. Regardless I need major legal backing by an attorney. But all of your guys inputs will help me ask the questions and make adjustments necessary.

I'll keep the update posted here.

BTW-pcplumber, the company is out of Rancho, you might fit in with them. JK

Jeremy


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## AFOREMA1 (Jun 25, 2009)

E


Reliableren said:


> I think there is actually a law regarding excepting money thats not actually owed to you…or is that just a MORAL, haha, I get the two confused sometimes because they usually go hand and hand.
> 
> But in this case, I may have not made it exactly clear…I received three documents to include,
> 
> ...


The check like the invoice was probably altered after the fact to use to show the work was completed and paid. I am sure it was never sent to you.


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## HaltSecurity (Apr 26, 2011)

The main thing I would be concerned with ,aside from possible warranty expectations and claims, not to mention the legal costs associated with proving that your company did not do the said repairs, is the IRS. If any of this work was turned in by that real estate company to show their expenses and for deductions then your name is all over it and the IRS will expect you to pay the taxes on it and charge you penalties or charge you for tax evasion.

I would contact the licensure board, the DA and the IRS before this becomes a problem for you. Even though you can prove you didn't do the work or get paid from it if you wait until a problem arises it can cost you a ton in legal fees. Using your company name is like identity theft.

Another consideration is, as you said, the buyer was unaware that your company didn't do the work and as you said, the work was substandard. What damage to your company reputation has or can be done by these actions?


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## Reliableren (Apr 11, 2011)

Wow… thankyou Halt, well said. I'm concerned about the legal liability as I said. But also underlying is the fact that some yayhoos have done horrible shotty work, and yes with my name being the installer. I think I will post some pictures of it on here.

THNK YOU THOUGH.


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## HaltSecurity (Apr 26, 2011)

A good solid reputation will get you more business and for a lesser cost per sale than any other form of advertising. Protect that reputation you are trying so hard to build at all costs. One unhappy ( in your case, misinformed ) customer can ruin years of building.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

The only bureaucracy that will care about this activity is the Realtors Board. Definitely not kosher. Someone will probably lose their license to practice over this. Possibly even the broker of the office.

If it were me I would meet personally with the broker of the office and inform him that you won't take the issue to the board provided he sign your confidentiality agreement - in which he acknowledges what his office did - and provides reasonable consideration for the potential risks and defamation of character his office submitted you to. In the amount of the invoice for $1700.00.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

You are not responsible for the fraudulent actions of others HOWEVER, now that you are aware of those actions you may have some responsibility (the cover-up) if you don't do something. I would suggest:

Send a letter to the buyers representative, cc it to the sellers representative and to the title company if you know which one is involved, and to the local DA. Describe exactly what you have described to us. Tell them everything you know, including what the realtor told you about standard practices. That letter being sent to those people should cya.


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## afkama (Jul 16, 2006)

Forget CSLB unless they would only be justified in investigating the unlicensed hacks that did the work. Your issue with them would only come into play after there was legal action against you.

Contact the realtor board.

File a police report for identity theft.

Send letters registered mail to everyone you can think of so you have a solid paper trail.

Most importantly: 

Ignore all of the above.

Don't get your legal advice from a public forum made up of non lawyers.

Find a good lawyer who specializes in construction law. This is just one of the reasons why you should consult with them. Without knowing it you are probably facing bigger risks than this situation without being aware of them.
Have them look over your contracts, hiring and firing policies, collection policies, etc for any loose ends.

A good lawyer and accountant are essential for a business.


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## Accurate (Apr 4, 2011)

Metro M & L said:


> If it were me I would meet personally with the broker of the office and inform him that you won't take the issue to the board provided he sign your confidentiality agreement - in which he acknowledges what his office did - and provides reasonable consideration for the potential risks and defamation of character his office submitted you to. In the amount of the invoice for $1700.00.


Not recommended.....Its called Extortion
In NJ, at the amount you stated, it would be a third degree crime.


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