# instead of a p-trap ----



## Vermonster (Mar 28, 2005)

I saw these devices on a recent trip to Europe. They call the "Siphon" ... they look much better that p-traps and are much shorter. Are they available (and legal) here?
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Thanks ....


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## Vermonster (Mar 28, 2005)

*edit button isn't on so I had to try this ........*

pic ..


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Reminds me of the old drum traps that were outlawed here. Here's another pic of one:









http://www.dearbornbrass.com/datafiles/image1/specs/967GBN-1.pdf


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

They are not approved under any model code I'm aware of, but I'm somewhat behind the lastest changes. 

I can't imagine they would be approved with moving parts. There are specific areas of the code which prohibit water seal traps with moving parts.


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## Nick H (Nov 13, 2005)

mdshunk said:


> Reminds me of the old drum traps that were outlawed here. Here's another pic of one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



MD are you saying you cant use a trap like that ? We call that a bottle trap and we use them a lot on basins, I cant imagine why they would be outlawed, perhaps you could enlighten me.


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Nick H said:


> MD are you saying you cant use a trap like that ? We call that a bottle trap and we use them a lot on basins, I cant imagine why they would be outlawed, perhaps you could enlighten me.


I don't have a clue. I'm just a sparky.


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## Nick H (Nov 13, 2005)

mdshunk said:


> I don't have a clue. I'm just a sparky.


To be honest, I dont really give a s**t, I'm just a chippy !!


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## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

how does that old drum trap seal sewer gases from the habitation.looks like a trap that might be used to recover something that may have fallen into the drain.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

The model codes used in most areas require that water seal traps be self cleaning. The bottle or more correctly the bell trap MD has shown, is not self cleaning and is disallowed under most model codes. 

That is another reason I think the 'siphon' in the first drawing won't be adopted in the US, but I've been wrong before and will be again soon, I'm sure.

The photo MD shows is not a drum trap, this is









and this is a P-Trap










A bell or bottle trap


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## Vermonster (Mar 28, 2005)

I saw them all over Germany. Given their level of engineering I would imagine that they work and are save. But if I had all the answers I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place ....:jester: 

Thanks ....


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

I didn't mean to imply they are not safe. Drum traps were used extensively and still are for some applications. 

For some reason, the model codes consider cleaning with an auger or self cleaning more important than style. You can't pass a cable through a bottle or drum trap.

I agree that a bottle trap is much more compact and attractive, but it has to be taken apart to clean it.

The plumbing world in Europe is light years ahead of us in the USA in many ways as far as material uses and especially radiant heating systems and controls.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Drum trap and bottle traps are allowed in Oregon under UPC, but only when authorized for use, I don't see too many here, I guess the place you might see them is in Hosipitals and other commercial Buildings that might have the need for them.

I don't like them or care for them myself, but that just me.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

cmwacasey said:


> how does that old drum trap seal sewer gases from the habitation.looks like a trap that might be used to recover something that may have fallen into the drain.


The way the drum trap seals is the inlet is much lower than the outlet. So it must flood over the inlet before reaching the outlet.

The bottle trap does about the same thing, it has a pipe that extends down close to the bottom, then the water must flood until it can spill out the outlet.

They are quite effective at sealing out sewer gases.


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## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

thanks AA.I was not sure of the interior design of that bottle trap.


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## Nick H (Nov 13, 2005)

Like I said, we use bottle traps a lot and they are simple to clean, you just unscrew the bottom and all the crud drops out, easy.


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## cmwacasey (Aug 13, 2006)

Looks like to me the p-trap has the best and most efficient design.does anyone think differently?are there situations where one of the other designs might be better?


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## 415moto (Jun 6, 2006)

interesting stuff, i too would like to know the pros and cons of those.

i can see how the drum trap works, but the bell traps weir is so high how can it trap gasses above the bell?


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