# Removing Asbestos VCT tile from basement floor



## Appalachia (Apr 20, 2013)

I'm putting in a waterguard basement drain around the perimeter of a basement and so I need to jackhammer the floor up. I need to remove some of the 9x9" asbestos tiles on the floor to do this. Would the safest way to handle this be to flood the basement we an inch or two of water first(to prevent the asbestos from becoming airborne), bust the tiles off the floor and then clean up?

Also I will be pouring gypecrete over the entire basement floor to encapsulate this tile at the end of the project.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

Not sure on your back round . But from what you said Please don't touch anything . Call an asbestos company for a review of the homes floor .


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Appalachia said:


> I'm putting in a waterguard basement drain around the perimeter of a basement and so I need to jackhammer the floor up. I need to remove some of the 9x9" asbestos tiles on the floor to do this. Would the safest way to handle this be to flood the basement we an inch or two of water first(to prevent the asbestos from becoming airborne), bust the tiles off the floor and then clean up?
> 
> Also I will be pouring gypecrete over the entire basement floor to encapsulate this tile at the end of the project.


Flooding with an inch or two of cold water and popping the tiles off with a floor scraper would be a good plan of attack. 
If the tiles do not pop off easily, then proceeding as you explained would be the next best solution.

Good luck. Welcome to CT.


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## ccoffer (Jan 30, 2005)

Keeping it wet is all you need to do. Thanks to scumbag lawyers, we've been trained like sheep to treat asbestos as though it were friggen' nitroglycerin. Just wet it down and cover it with painters plastic so it can't dry out. Then wait for some freak to chime in about the dreaded mold. Uggh.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

Just wait till the homeowner tells his brother in law's best friend who is an attorney that you removed the asbestos yourself, and the **** hits the fan. Why you would assume the liability here, as suggested above, is beyond me. If someone gets sick, and the blame comes back to you, do you really want to deal with that? 
I understand the part about over zealous lawyers etc, but you need to CYA. Cover Your Ass.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

As a clarification, if they contain asbestos, they are not VCT, they are VAT.


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

What's your guys recommendation for disposal?

Don't have any interest in touching the stuff. I call in abatement guys...


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

why gypcrete and not cement based product? I understand wetting the tile but what's with 2" of water?

Finally, you don't get to pick which stop signs you have to stop at and you don't get to pick which EPA laws you follow. If you do the wrong thing, it could cost you plenty.


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## skyhook (Mar 17, 2007)

Is this a test? 

Check this out and get back to us.




> Minnesota Department of Health:
> When is the removal of flooring hazardous?
> Flooring that contains asbestos, when intact and in good condition, is generally considered nonfriable and is not hazardous.
> 
> Heat, water, weathering or aging can weaken flooring to the point where it is considered friable. Friable flooring includes any material containing more than 1 percent asbestos that *can be crumbled, pulverized or reduced to powder with hand pressure.* This includes previously nonfriable flooring material which has been damaged to the extent that it may be crumbled, pulverized or reduced to powder by hand pressure.


After hurricane Katrina, asbestos in many forms was left on the roadways where it was run over and reduced to powder,
thereby making it Friable and airborne.
Now that was  dangerous.


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

Katrina wasn't in Minnesota silly...

The roads are govt, they have different rules..


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## Hank B. (May 6, 2013)

The three s's to questionable flooring removal. Scrape, Shovel, Shut up.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Don't mess with it. It may be easy to remove but your opening a can of worms for liability issues. If it's in your own home then go ahead. If it's for a paying customer then get a company who has the proper insurance to cover their ass and remove the liability from you. It's just not worth messing with it.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Hank B. said:


> The three s's to questionable flooring removal. Scrape, Shovel, Shut up.


That's a hoot. But true.


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## ccoffer (Jan 30, 2005)

If you accidentally touch what's been there for God knows how long, run like a frightened school girl to the first person you consider an authority figure. A lawyer, a dog catcher, a milkman..whatever. Remember your life is worthless before the dictates of your credentialed overlords.

There was a time when American men were actual men. Now they cower before dickless, badge-wearing waifs. Uggh.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

ccoffer said:


> If you accidentally touch what's been there for God knows how long, run like a frightened school girl to the first person you consider an authority figure. A lawyer, a dog catcher, a milkman..whatever. Remember your life is worthless before the dictates of your credentialed overlords.
> 
> There was a time when American men were actual men. Now they cower before dickless, badge-wearing waifs. Uggh.


Yeah of course when you accidentally decide to remove tiles and the HO decides to take you to court you can say you accidentally forgot to get the correct insurance and they will let you off. About time you started acting like a real contractor instead of a hack fella.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

ccoffer said:


> If you accidentally touch what's been there for God knows how long, run like a frightened school girl to the first person you consider an authority figure. A lawyer, a dog catcher, a milkman..whatever. Remember your life is worthless before the dictates of your credentialed overlords.
> 
> There was a time when American men were actual men. Now they cower before dickless, badge-wearing waifs. Uggh.


What kind of man puts the future of his business in jeopardy and puts himself, his men and his customers safety at risk. I'm guessing ccoffer is an employee as no business owner would act like this.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

And we use to pour our sewage into our rivers and burn coal until the sky was black. God, those were REAL men. 

:whistling


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

I decided to do it with a flat bar, garbage bags and no mask...then my neighbor (a flooring installer) dropped by and explained how they were asbestos. If the drinking doesn't kill me the asbestos will.

Anyway at the company he works for they throw buckets of water down and rip it up.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

quick ? have you actually tested the tile to see that it contains asbestos?
Have it tested and bump the HO for the abatement costs if it shows +.
After all once it has been verified the HO is on the hook.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

ccoffer said:


> If you accidentally touch what's been there for God knows how long, run like a frightened school girl to the first person you consider an authority figure. A lawyer, a dog catcher, a milkman..whatever. Remember your life is worthless before the dictates of your credentialed overlords.
> 
> There was a time when American men were actual men. Now they cower before dickless, badge-wearing waifs. Uggh.


You understand that homeowners can view this site, right? 80% of what you say is school yard name calling and your opinion. Why would they want to have you in their home when there are qualified installers minus the attitude? And installers that follow the rules regarding the homeowners safety (as well as your own). To put in your own words"Think".


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

ccoffer said:


> _Or you could read the EPA standards._
> 
> You mean the same corrupt scumbags that gave us Superfund?(you might not be old enough to remember that) The EPA is fundamentally corrupt as is OSHA. Thankfully, they stick to construction sites. Not being a hapless loser, I don't do construction sites. I serve homeowners and we love each other.


Superfund would not exist if corrupt businesses didn't dump the waste on the ground for everyone else to pay for. That's should be why you should be upset. You're paying for it.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

ccoffer said:


> BTW: I'm better at this than you people are. You can ask around. I'm not just some guy on the internet. I supply free content here for the sake of people who don't have some limp axe to grind.
> 
> Asbestos isn't nitro-glycerine. Black mold isn't bubonic plague either.


Content? :laughing: Can you quote a study, research, anything to support your views? Free, misinformed content; you get what you pay for.


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## ccoffer (Jan 30, 2005)

I'm smarter than you, son. I make more money than you do. I'm better at dealing with people than you are. Your pride is a millstone around your neck. I pray you wake up.

For your sake.

Best,
Chu.


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## mbryan (Dec 6, 2010)

It doesn't matter how correct or stupid the rule is you still have to follow it. There have been a business or two that have been bankrupted by one of those corrupted divisions. Do I agree with some of your feelings yes but unfortunately they don't give a damn what we think.... I don't like paying taxes either but don't think I'll do well if I don't play by their rules.

Are the landfill rules about being labeled and double bagged just so they can drive an excavator over them a little retarded in my opinion, what do you think...


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

ArtisanRemod said:


> Just wait till the homeowner tells his brother in law's best friend who is an attorney that you removed the asbestos yourself, and the **** hits the fan. Why you would assume the liability here, as suggested above, is beyond me. If someone gets sick, and the blame comes back to you, do you really want to deal with that?
> I understand the part about over zealous lawyers etc, but you need to CYA. Cover Your Ass.


Get sick? It takes thirty years to rear it's ugly head. He should be fishing by then.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I do believe you can pull up 100 square feet without an abatement company, however you must use approved methods. This rule may have changed, I believe it was on my licensing test 12 years ago. 

The requirement applies when such work involves 100 sq. ft. or more of asbestos-containing construction materials that have an asbestos content of more than 0.1%.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

ccoffer said:


> I'm smarter than you, son. I make more money than you do. I'm better at dealing with people than you are. Your pride is a millstone around your neck. I pray you wake up.
> 
> For your sake.
> 
> ...


But you still can't support anything you've said about asbestos with facts, can you? Put a source up to disprove asbestos is bad.:no:Any source. I'll put up study after study,research after research,scientist upon scientist that say it is dangerous. Facts. You know what they are, right?

And you're smarter than all the counties in the world that have banned asbestos. :laughing:And all the scientists,researchers and health professionals aren't as smart as you either(thankfully). :laughing: You're either are undiscovered genius or you're wearing an aluminum hat and listening to voices that other people can't hear.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Californiadecks said:


> I do believe you can pull up 100 square feet without an abatement company, however you must use approved methods. This rule may have changed, I believe it was on my licensing test 12 years ago.
> 
> The requirement applies when such work involves 100 sq. ft. or more of asbestos-containing construction materials that have an asbestos content of more than 0.1%.


Some states aren't as tough as others. You have to know your states rules.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

In some states, the HO can remove asbestos in their house without any safety precautions at all. The same for churches, as long as the members remove it free. If common sense is used, anyone can safely remove it. Just like lead, the danger is overblown. 
Maybe, I'm just lucky, but I'm 65. I removed VAT for years, before anyone knew it was supposed to be dangerous. And, as a kid, I helped my father cut and install asbestos siding. When I go in for my annual physical, they always remark how good my lungs sound. I even had a lung capacity test after a bad case of pneumonia and it came back great. Of course, I have never smoked.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Before I knew any better, I got myself involved in a basement finish job. First thing was to remove the rest of those 9x9's over black mastic. But then a flooring guy told me I can't touch them...either abate, or patch all the spots where the tiles were lost. (We did not confirm that they were asbestos, but it might have been a good guess to some). But the remaining tiles were so loose and could be removed with a putty knife, let alone a floor scraper. But nope, I can't touch them - too much liability, etc.

So I explained my situation to the owner, and also learned that in this particular location a homeowner is permitted to bag those tiles and dispose them in their own regular trash. I wished I could just wet them down for him and remove, but I was stuck. The following week the tiles were gone.

After that, someone removed the mastic with soy gel. 

On a separate note, I had a buddy call Sears for an appliance repair (dishwasher), but after two visits and installing the part (pump), they would not reconnect it. What the...? Too much liability, I guess.


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## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Like Rusty said it can be removed safely. Does your state allow you to remove it or do you have to get a licensed person? Some states like Oregon will go after the small contractor violations and some won't bother concentrating on larger contractors. So you should find out your states rules.

Common sense won't protect you. The law doesn't say you don't need to take precautions if the homeowner is over a certain age. It assumes all asbestos dangerous but makes exceptions for certain products and homeowners doing their own removal.It's irresponsible to say you don't have to follow the law. Do you pick the building codes you like and ignore the ones you don't like? Try that and see what happens.

The problem with asbestos is there are no immediate symptoms. Sure there are people that worked with the material and feel fine. Some smokers live well into their 90's. Does that mean you should smoke? Your genetic make up might make you the exception. 

Here's a pretty good article summarizing asbestos information.

Background on Asbestos by Laurence B. Molly.

Done.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

It's extremely unprofessional to disregard asbestos handling requirements to make a quick buck. The risks* PROFESSIONALLY *are not worth the money. Personally I've torn out and/or sanded and laid over TONS. I was younger, stupid and as ALL the Nazis said at Nuremberg........."I was just following orders." 

I knew better even back then. It was right on the side of every box of VCT. But hey, I needed the job, right? So I scraped, shoveled and kept my mouth shut. 

I'm healthy aside from some typical 53 year old wear and tear. No lung problems whatsoever. I only ever smoked weed and practically quit in my late 20s. You know, the kids are born and all that dope seems foolish. I pretty much guarantee you smoking (weed or tobacco) is more unhealthy than small, brief exposure to asbestos. 

Anyways, I'll not take it upon myself to disturb asbestos in a commercial project and pretend I didn't see anything-----let alone a HOME. Screw that nonsense. We've all seen the posts on other forums with some distressed home owner in a panic because she's pregnant or had 2-3 youngsters and some F'n retard came in her house and "did her a favor" by tearing out or scraping/sanding the asbestos tiles and adhesive. What a bunch of jerks!!!! You can't make an honest dollar? 

Poor lady, her kids and her will be fine from a little asbestos dust but she'll have panic attacks and a stroke from worrying. 

I don't care much about the politics of it. I'm not preaching some ideology. You work with people and just need to respect their interests enough to put that above a day's pay. There's really not that great a risk of ENFORCEMENT........especially on the residential side. So it comes down to your personal integrity. 

There's always going to be work out there-----more or less. Turning down those dirty asbestos demo/overlay jobs that probably pay a little more because 5 other shops/contractors walked away-----------?

You're practically a hero.


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## ArtisanRemod (Dec 25, 2012)

Californiadecks said:


> Get sick? It takes thirty years to rear it's ugly head. He should be fishing by then.


More great advice. Thanks


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

ArtisanRemod said:


> More great advice. Thanks


Glad I Could help :thumbsup:


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