# Government Work



## GreenCollarInc (Jul 27, 2013)

I hear all this talk about how much money is in Government work. Being *SDVOSB* Certified has not done me any good at all. I struggle to find work in the private sector and now that I have this certification that is supposed to help me get work, I struggle to find work in the Government sector. And get this, I am also Black. I hear so much about what an advantage I have being a minority owned service disabled veteran owned small business...please...someone please show me where the advantage is because I'v been certified SDVOSB for over a year and have yet to win One contract. All the work that comes up on FedBizOpps are over my bonding capability and the bids that I can bond (anything under 250k) locally are inundated with super low bidding contractors. What am I to do, 

*I need advice, please help*

Been in the Biz since 2007 and have completed a few very small GSA jobs. Non government I specialize in water damage restoration, government work I specialize in TI. Private work I do myself along with my crew who I cannot use in government work because they are not documented US Citizens. So for now I am subbing out any government work I get until I can get up the capitol to hire other Veterans or whomever and really be able to compete. I could go on but I want readers to reply not loose interest and move on, so again, I plead for you wisdom contractors.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Get a real crew of legals. 
Stop relying on your skin color, you shouldnt get any advantage over anyone else.
Best advice I have


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

How about letting your quality work for a fair rate prevail instead of crying about how you are a black SDVOSB with a crew of illegals...

I can hear the sound of other members loading their guns...


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

GreenCollarInc said:


> I cannot use in government work because they are not documented US Citizens.


Where are they Citizens of:blink::blink:
Government work is very hard to get! It is almost a closed group that is in the know that gets this work. Over here the Hawaiian women GC has the best in with the Gov. contracts. Minoritys do have a greater chance with Government work because our Government is raciest:thumbsup: and must kiss the butt of the Minoritys


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## GreenCollarInc (Jul 27, 2013)

I'm not looking for a handout here, I work hard for my money, here in california you will go out of business quick if you don't use undocumented workers because your competitors are using them and taking the bid to bare bones. And I won't even waste my time speaking to the racists, get a life. I'm here to talk to real construction contractors from all over the US and will from now on be ignoring any racist comments.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Where are they Citizens of:blink::blink:
> Minoritys do have a greater chance with Government work* because our Government is raciest*:thumbsup: and must kiss the butt of the Minoritys





GreenCollarInc said:


> I'm not looking for a handout here, I work hard for my money, here in california you will go out of business quick if you don't use undocumented workers because your competitors are using them and taking the bid to bare bones. And I won't even waste my time speaking to the racists, get a life. I'm here to talk to real construction contractors from all over the US and will from now on be ignoring any racist comments.


Who's the racists :blink:
I think a person trying to get preferential treatment because of there skin color would playin the race card!
Hey by the way,,*Where are they Citizens of *


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## dsconstructs (Jul 20, 2010)

GreenCollarInc said:


> I'm not looking for a handout here, I work hard for my money, here in california you will go out of business quick if you don't use undocumented workers because your competitors are using them and taking the bid to bare bones. And I won't even waste my time speaking to the racists, get a life. I'm here to talk to real construction contractors from all over the US and will from now on be ignoring any racist comments.



Note, this is not a racism.....Using illegal workers is total bs, and any excuse as to why you need to use them to compete is total bs. You are only helping drag a certain market further down into the gutter. If you do good work and are at least fair priced, not trying to "get rich off of one job" there is a actually a huge market that wouldn't hire you based on your business practices/illegal workers/tax evasion/lack of proper insurance (you're obviously not carrying workers comp on them)......there's only a certain part of the market that are willing to shop in the gutter and assume the insurance risks that you aren't covering as just one potential problem. The rest of the majority actually expect you to be on the up and up so that they don't stand the chance of losing a lot trying to save a little.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

GreenCollarInc said:


> I'm not looking for a handout here, I work hard for my money,


 So you're not very disabled, right?


GreenCollarInc said:


> here in california you will go out of business quick if you don't use undocumented workers


 Looks like the state is going out of business because of undocumented workers and people that hire them.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

:no:  :blink:  :laughing:  :whistling

Only positive advice I have:

Most areas have minority business groups that you may want to become part of, to network, learn how the more successful do it, avoid their mistakes.... Commercial work in general is still and always was, about who you know. To get the best and larger numbers of jobs, need to find out who the key players (minority hiring) are and get to know them ect. The minority business groups are the quickest way to find out and find out how to connect to them


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

GreenCollarInc said:


> I'm not looking for a handout here, I work hard for my money, here in california you will go out of business quick if you don't use undocumented workers because your competitors are using them and taking the bid to bare bones. And I won't even waste my time speaking to the racists, get a life. I'm here to talk to real construction contractors from all over the US and will from now on be ignoring any racist comments.


Who made any racist comments?


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Who made any racist comments?












My SO just left for work and said by and have a good night in a foreign language


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

First problem is that someone gave you some very bad info as to how easy it would be to get govt. jobs with your SDVOSB rating.
It is a tough business. Who you know matters.

Next problem is what you can bond for. 250k ain't squat.
Try partnering up to raise your bond limit. You are swimming at the bottom of the septic tank with that low a limit.

Have you tried bidding as a Sub on the govt jobs?

Have you ever worked on a Commercial job? A GC on a commercial job won't give rat spit about anything but you having the lowest bid for the section(s) you bid on. If you can't perform with quality & speed the Super won't care what color your arse is when he hands it to you.... 

Do you have the money to float a job for 60-90 days? 

Your own attitude makes it sound like you are entitled to get work just because of the color of your skin and that you are a veteran. Often times that attitude is also perceived by owners and can work against you.

By the way, THANK YOU for your service to our country.:thumbsup:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

griz said:


> By the way, THANK YOU for your service to our country.:thumbsup:


:thumbsup:


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## GreenCollarInc (Jul 27, 2013)

I hear you Griz, and trust me it only sounds like that, I do not expect to be handed a job simply because of the color of my skin nor simply because I served my country of my own free will. When I am frustrated by is the fact that I've been doing this for 10 years and I haven't had the opportunityto prove myself in the government arena.I spent an entire year going through the certification processof being a service disabled veteran owned small businesssand to no avail because the market is still catered to big business.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

GreenCollarInc said:


> ...because the market is still catered to big business....


No it is not....:thumbsup:

The market caters to competent & efficient businesses.

If you do not have a very solid background in commercial work you are at a huge disadvantage. 

As I said earlier, that 250k bond limit is killing you...

You need to get to the 1-2 mil job range for bidding to even out some.
It is still VERY cut throat. The Change Order game is how govt construction contracts work....:no:


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## GreenCollarInc (Jul 27, 2013)

Well how am I supposed to be able to work my way up to the 1-2 mil mark when I can't even get the job below 25k because some big business has monopolized the market. If a contracting officer has a company that gets work done at a good cost and done right what incentive does he or she have to give smaller businesses a chance. In alot of these government agencies you see the same contractors doing all the work, large and small jobs. I just need a way in so I can show them that my company is competent and does good work at a fair price. Is that too much to ask? You guys that have been in the game for tens of years don't have this problem because when you got in they gave away bonds like Halloween candy, so starting out with a 300k job was nothing and it was easier to work your way up with that leniency in the bond market.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 25, 2010)

Government Work? I always thought on the municipal, county and state level you had to make a political contribution to the party in power.

I think thats why the big guys get government work.


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## Gov contractor (Jan 19, 2013)

despite what everybody thinks, gov contracts are NOT about who you know, I have found the Gov bidding process to be extremely fair. In fact The go out of their way to make sure everything is above level.

if you do not like the way the bidding selection worked on a particular project you can protest the award and an independent board will review the results, it happens often, sometimes the protester wins sometimes they lose.

I'm guessing here but......you served your country because you love and respect her values and everything she stands for. Somewhere along the line in my opinion, you lost that respect for your country by hiring illegals.
I suggest you rethink your business plan, hire Americans, and work harder on obtaining Gov contracts with your own labor and stop subbing work out. 

If you cannot land Gov contracts after doing work for them already, you are doing something wrong, or did not preform well on the contracts you did obtain. ( yes they keep records of past performance)

By the way, my entire crew is legal, my profit margin is over 50% and some projects is in the 70 percentile. low balling on gov contracts will not help you get a contract, they know EXACTLY what a project should cost to complete, and they have been known to throw out low and high numbers


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Gov contractor said:


> despite what everybody thinks, gov contracts are NOT about who you know, I have found the Gov bidding process to be extremely fair. In fact The go out of their way to make sure everything is above level.
> 
> if you do not like the way the bidding selection worked on a particular project you can protest the award and an independent board will review the results, it happens often, sometimes the protester wins sometimes they lose.
> 
> ...


Not always true. I've spent a few years doing Government work. At the VA hospital, last government job I did, I spent 3 years remodeling (plumbing). If the guy in charge, at the federal level, likes the company they have ways of making sure you stay on board for the next project. 

I've even been part of looking at jobs in the same hospital preparing to stage it before the numbers were submitted. No other bids, it happens all the time.

The notion that somehow the government executes a fair process in the bidding cycle is preposterous. When in life has the government ever done a single thing that actually made sense?

The company I worked for probably did 30 some jobs over a 10 year period at the same hospital. Coincidence? 

The fact is, government work is more corrupt than the private sector. For 3 years I spent time in meetings on a daily basis with a fella who ran the projects for the government. Got to now his kids, his wife and we became friends. Did he want to change companies anytime soon? Especially after he reached a comfort level with the contractors? Not a chance. He was happy and wanted to stay happy. It was my job to make sure that happened and I made dam sure I did.

Even for the inexperienced just look on the news. Rewarding contracts is BIG business and people are getting caught all the time. 

I've seen enough of that crap for a lifetime.

Mike


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## Gov contractor (Jan 19, 2013)

Projects under $2000 do not need to go out for bid, anything over that sum does by law go out.

There is Best value:


Select the Right Contractor

"Best value" is a process used to select the most advantageous offer by evaluating and comparing factors in addition to cost or price. It allows flexibility in selection through tradeoffs which the agency makes between the cost and non-cost evaluation factors with the intent of awarding to the contractor that will give the government the greatest or best value for its money.

Note that "the rules" for the best-value and tradeoff process (and the degree of documentation required) depend on two factors: the rules for the specific acquisition process being used and the rules the agency sets in the solicitation. For example, when conducting a negotiated procurement, the complex processes of FAR Subpart 15.1, "Source Selection Processes and Techniques," and FAR Subpart 15.3, "Source Selection," apply. When using Federal Supply Schedule contracts, the simpler provisions at FAR 8.404 apply. However, if the agency writes FAR 15-type rules into a Request for Quote under Federal Supply Schedule contracts, the rules in the RFQ control.

The integrated project team should consider including factors such as the following in the evaluation model:

Quality and benefits of the solution
Quality of the performance metrics and measurement approach
Risks associated with the solution
Management approach and controls
Management team (limited number of key personnel)
Past performance (how well the contractor has performed)
Past experience (what the contractor has done)

This is used often when a contractor is on-site already, and saves time any money. Or often times other reasons, however it is not crooked or illegal. The bidding docs will clearly state that is a "best value" in the solicitation. For instance, how would you feel if you were an astronaut, knowing the rocket your ass was strapped to was build by the lowest bidder? 

Gov employees would and have gone to jail for fixing bids, I doubt the Fed employee you became friends with took a chance at prison because he liked you


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Lol, this ain't my first rodeo. 12 years later guess what? The same company is still on site. So, that's great you can copy and paste rules from Google but that doesn't change reality. 

And no,it certainly wasn't me who made that happen. It was a multi million dollar corporation who's been at this game running multi million dollar projects since the great depression. I was just one cog on a very large gear doing exactly what I was told to do.

You know, the grey area in life......where reality happens. Professional sports players don't use steroids either. It says so in the rule books......


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Almost forgot ....

It's not illegal. Why do you think the FAR books are so thick? Because it's fun to write? No. The reasons why it's so complex is the same reasons why our tax laws can fill a room the size of Fenway park......loopholes. There's a reason why those exist, and not paying taxes is perfectly legal. I mean, come on, I could write a tax law that makes sense on a bar napkin but that's not what's going on here is it? There's people who evade taxes and that's illegal then there's people who set up a business or financial condition to legally avoid paying taxes.....that Guy understands how the system works. Government work is no different.


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## Gov contractor (Jan 19, 2013)

Don't take me wrong oconomowo, i'm most likely a bigger anti-big gov person then you. 
BUT: you do not have to cheat, become friends or be a big Corporation in order to win gov contracts.
6 years ago I was laid off at my job and started my own business out of necessity. I have worked at more then 12 VA hospitals and 9 National Park Service projects all over the country since then. I got these jobs from sweat and many many hours of work, not from being corrupt or cheating the system some how.
The OP wondered why he could not make a go of it, and I'm here to say "you can". The fact that I have worked at 21 gov projects around the country( not just at 1 VA hospital) proves that there is some fairness to the bidding or else according to your logic the same contractor would be at those 21 sites for the last 12 years.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

One thing that I learned about doing a job at a military hospital is that you have to know how to play the game, ride out the ups and downs, and create no waves in the process. The way I got in was to sub for another company that won the contract. Then after working with those guys for a few months, I got an idea of how the "flow" goes. 

Sometimes you gotta bust your butt to get a lot of work done in a short period of time while waiting to get paid. Other times you'll find yourself with money in the bank while you are sitting idly for several weeks waiting for a directive. And one of the keys to winning is how comfortable they are with your ability to be flexible. Can you hurry up and wait? Are you willing to take the blame and/or responsibility for a series of events that you had nothing to do with? Are you good at juggling tasks on the project to keep busy while waiting for another trade to get out of you way? And then most importantly, are you able to work with directives that don't make any sense? If the gov't representative suggests that you should paint the drywall before taping, mudding and finishing, will you do it? Will you be able to convince them otherwise? Or will you walk off the job?

For instance, one thing that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me was when I was on my first gov't gig through a sub-contractor, my task was to install flat panel TV screens. The building had roughly 400 or so that needed to be installed. Me and my helper were installing 4-6 TV screens every day. There was another crew of 5 guys installing that many screens in a WEEK. :blink: They kept getting more work. When I was finished with the first phase, they never called me back.

It took 5 guys to install 1 TV on the wall per day. One guy carried the tools, another pushed the cart, one carried the ladder, another guy had the clipboard, and the last guy had the broom and a plastic bag.:blink:

It didn't make much sense until I learned how to navigate the system.


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## Wylian (Feb 18, 2010)

tedanderson said:


> One thing that I learned about doing a job at a military hospital is that you have to know how to play the game, ride out the ups and downs, and create no waves in the process. The way I got in was to sub for another company that won the contract. Then after working with those guys for a few months, I got an idea of how the "flow" goes.
> 
> Sometimes you gotta bust your butt to get a lot of work done in a short period of time while waiting to get paid. Other times you'll find yourself with money in the bank while you are sitting idly for several weeks waiting for a directive. And one of the keys to winning is how comfortable they are with your ability to be flexible. Can you hurry up and wait? Are you willing to take the blame and/or responsibility for a series of events that you had nothing to do with? Are you good at juggling tasks on the project to keep busy while waiting for another trade to get out of you way? And then most importantly, are you able to work with directives that don't make any sense? If the gov't representative suggests that you should paint the drywall before taping, mudding and finishing, will you do it? Will you be able to convince them otherwise? Or will you walk off the job?
> 
> ...


And what was the reason they kept getting work?


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Gov contractor said:


> Don't take me wrong oconomowo, i'm most likely a bigger anti-big gov person then you.
> BUT: you do not have to cheat, become friends or be a big Corporation in order to win gov contracts.
> 6 years ago I was laid off at my job and started my own business out of necessity. I have worked at more then 12 VA hospitals and 9 National Park Service projects all over the country since then. I got these jobs from sweat and many many hours of work, not from being corrupt or cheating the system some how.
> The OP wondered why he could not make a go of it, and I'm here to say "you can". The fact that I have worked at 21 gov projects around the country( not just at 1 VA hospital) proves that there is some fairness to the bidding or else according to your logic the same contractor would be at those 21 sites for the last 12 years.


How big were your projects? Man power? Size? What type of work?

Just so we are on the same page.


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## Gov contractor (Jan 19, 2013)

as of right now i have over 2 mil in government contracts with close to as much bid out.

largest single contact is $ 888K, is it a large contract no, but we are a very small company with little overhead. 

I have found you do not need to play their game as you suggest.....at one project the safety engineer would not allow chemical with a PH lower then 4.0 when I explained they sell pepsi in their commissary with a lower PH, they gave in and I was allowed to bring it on site. I do not play their game, i tell them the truth no matter if they want to hear it or not


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## Oconomowoc (Oct 13, 2011)

Gov contractor said:


> as of right now i have over 2 mil in government contracts with close to as much bid out.
> 
> largest single contact is $ 888K, is it a large contract no, but we are a very small company with little overhead.
> 
> I have found you do not need to play their game as you suggest.....at one project the safety engineer would not allow chemical with a PH lower then 4.0 when I explained they sell pepsi in their commissary with a lower PH, they gave in and I was allowed to bring it on site. I do not play their game, i tell them the truth no matter if they want to hear it or not


Well, we are definitely not talking about the same thing.


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## TiM Management (Jul 18, 2013)

GreenCollarInc said:


> I hear all this talk about how much money is in Government work. Being SDVOSB Certified has not done me any good at all. I struggle to find work in the private sector and now that I have this certification that is supposed to help me get work, I struggle to find work in the Government sector. And get this, I am also Black. I hear so much about what an advantage I have being a minority owned service disabled veteran owned small business...please...someone please show me where the advantage is because I'v been certified SDVOSB for over a year and have yet to win One contract. All the work that comes up on FedBizOpps are over my bonding capability and the bids that I can bond (anything under 250k) locally are inundated with super low bidding contractors. What am I to do,
> 
> I need advice, please help
> 
> Been in the Biz since 2007 and have completed a few very small GSA jobs. Non government I specialize in water damage restoration, government work I specialize in TI. Private work I do myself along with my crew who I cannot use in government work because they are not documented US Citizens. So for now I am subbing out any government work I get until I can get up the capitol to hire other Veterans or whomever and really be able to compete. I could go on but I want readers to reply not loose interest and move on, so again, I plead for you wisdom contractors.


I've read this before, I just can't remember what book it was from.....oh that's right it was from the book of you can't make this **** up.

Why are you relying on your minority status to obtain favoritism? 

Why are you relying on being a disabled veteran and being a minority owned service to land work?

Why are you hiring illegals yet trying to use all of your status' we give you rights to, to your advantage?

Personally, I think you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your business plan, and your entitlements.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Wylian said:


> And what was the reason they kept getting work?


My guess is that they were better at making the procurement officer feel better about their company.. much like the same way that the average homeowner will lend more credibility to Bob VIlla or Mike Holmes than the true professional in your neighborhood.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Gov contractor said:


> despite what everybody thinks, gov contracts are NOT about who you know, I have found the Gov bidding process to be extremely fair. In fact The go out of their way to make sure everything is above level.
> 
> if you do not like the way the bidding selection worked on a particular project you can protest the award and an independent board will review the results, it happens often, sometimes the protester wins sometimes they lose.
> 
> ...


:laughing::laughing:

Doesn't work that way in my neck of the woods:no:
Where we have more military bases per Sq. mile than any other state:laughing:


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## Gov contractor (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm happy to see everybody thinks its fixed.......leaves more government cream for me.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

One thing that I forgot to take into consideration is that when you submit a bid, you have to answer ALL questions and address EVERYTHING that's required in the RFP.. even if it doesn't apply to you.

I learned this in obtaining a grant that I got to rehab the computer room at the local community center. You have to answer seemingly silly questions like, "How many commercial buildings do you own?" and then you if you have less than 5, you have to explain why.

So while you are sitting there blown away at the absurdity of the question, they are looking for an answer.. even if it you have to say, "I just started my company 2 years ago and I don't need a commercial building"

So when it comes to bidding on government contracts, I think that a lot of people omit RFP items that seem to be irrelevant to the situation but if it's not addressed, it probably gets thrown out.


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## GreenCollarInc (Jul 27, 2013)

Oconomowoc said:


> Not always true. I've spent a few years doing Government work. At the VA hospital, last government job I did, I spent 3 years remodeling (plumbing). If the guy in charge, at the federal level, likes the company they have ways of making sure you stay on board for the next project.
> 
> I've even been part of looking at jobs in the same hospital preparing to stage it before the numbers were submitted. No other bids, it happens all the time.
> 
> ...


Mike, you are so right and I thank you for being honest.


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## GreenCollarInc (Jul 27, 2013)

TiM Management said:


> I've read this before, I just can't remember what book it was from.....oh that's right it was from the book of you can't make this **** up.
> 
> Why are you relying on your minority status to obtain favoritism?
> 
> ...


Whatever, first of all I've never used an illegal worker on a government project....ever. Second, I rely on my skills and work ethic to get the jobs I do get so you can sit over ther talking crap all day but it doesn't change the reality of government contracting for the little guy with a low bonding capacity .


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## deter (Apr 4, 2013)

You said it yourself you don't have any workers on-staff that can do work for the gov. So, if you're subbing it all out, why would you expect to be competitive? You're also trying to break into a well-established market. How did the GSA projects that you did turn out? There is plenty of 'money' in gov work, but you do have to work for it - just like everywhere else


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## GCTony (Oct 26, 2012)

I agree with this 100%

"despite what everybody thinks, gov contracts are NOT about who you know, I have found the Gov bidding process to be extremely fair. In fact The go out of their way to make sure everything is above level."

The problem is; it's so "on the up and up" it becomes a problem. Almost always, they accept low and don't really give it too much thought to why the low bidder (Bubba's Home Repairs) was 40% lower than Bob's Commercial Construction Inc.) on a hospital renovation. I've been awared a project when I missed the entire plumbing scope of work. (excel error) I could have bonded out of it but chose to do the work anyway and not to risk hurting my bonding rating. (I made 1% :clap

I understand the OP's frustration that Gov projects are hard to get because they are. I'm awarded about 60% of the private sector jobs I bid. I'm awarded about 10% of the Gov projects I bid. As a small GC, If you want to do gov projects you need to chase and bid a ton of them. If you want to make a living doing it, you should almost have a full time estimator to chase these types of projects. There's quite a bit of luck involved as well, how many bidders there are, who was at the pre-bid, who made a red tape mistake, who gets caught in traffic and doesn't deliver his bid on time.


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Dec 8, 2010)

GCTony said:


> I agree with this 100%
> 
> "despite what everybody thinks, gov contracts are NOT about who you know, I have found the Gov bidding process to be extremely fair. In fact The go out of their way to make sure everything is above level."
> 
> ...


Excel can be scary sometime. Haven't made a costly error yet...but I know I will make one someday!


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

MasterBlaster said:


> Government Work? I always thought on the municipal, county and state level you had to make a political contribution to the party in power.
> 
> I think thats why the big guys get government work.


Not true. At least here in middle tennessee. Bidding is open to all who have the bonding capacity to cover the job, and if a qualified company is low you had better have a damn good reason not to award the contract to them.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

Oconomowoc said:


> The fact is, government work is more corrupt than the private sector. For 3 years I spent time in meetings on a daily basis with a fella who ran the projects for the government. Got to now his kids, his wife and we became friends. Did he want to change companies anytime soon? Especially after he reached a comfort level with the contractors? Not a chance. He was happy and wanted to stay happy. It was my job to make sure that happened and I made dam sure I did.
> 
> Mike


Are you admitting to paying the guy bribes? I don't think I would be saying that on a public forum. Just sayin.:whistling


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