# What is a journeyman carpenter certificate needed for?



## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

In reading threads and noticing crews I am wondering what areas of carpentry really require a journeyman certificate?

Shingling
Siding,
Wdw's & doors
Trim
Cupboards
Painting
Drywall
Insulation

All seem to not need it. Crews do these things that have no journeyman carpenter on them.

The only area I can see that may need it is Structural Framing. 
I even wonder if you need it for interior non structural walls?


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## NormW (Jun 4, 2009)

Haven't heard of a journeyman certificate. Guess it must have to do with Canadian laws? Can you explain?

To me journeyman, means someone who has learned basic carpentry and can work unsupervised. I've also used it to refer to people who are ready to "fly the coop" and work on their own, and/or work as a subcontractor. I know the unions here refer to carpenters as journeyman, as well.

I see people advertising themselves as "Master Carpenters". I tend to stick my tongue in my cheek when I see it. I have no idea what they are trying to claim. I assume anyone who calls themselves a Master Carpenter can at least handle curved staircases, outside of that I'm lost to what it means.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

First off carpentry does not include roofing and painting.

Most of the postings on this site are from the US, and their regulations are different than in Canada.

In Canada, a journeryman carpenter can work in any province. Required for any union work. In residential, it most often is not asked for.

If you have your C of Q, it shows you have the experience and knowledge to take on almost any aspect of the trade, which is quite extensive.

Being a licensed carpenter also makes you liable for law suits because you are "expert" in your trade. If joe/blow does the job, he can simply state he didn't know any better. As a licensed carpenter, you cannot take that out.

A journeyman carpenter will also generaly make more money than a non licensed carpenter. He may also become a site superintendant.

I myself, always wanted to be a carpenter, a real one, and I have my C of Q. It was out of a love for the craft and respect of the craft that I did this. 

To do this, you need to serve an apprentiship of about 4 yrs. and pass all five exams. But at the end of it you will be the 'real deal'. Well worth the effort.:thumbup:

For complete information go to - www.itabc.ca/Page603.aspx


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Norm - In Canada the designation is simply 'General Carpenter' no such thing as a master carpenter. Guys use that term to boost their ego.

Although I, myself am a master at many things. :clap:


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## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

Even throughout Canada terms seem different. I have worked western Canada and not heard the term 'General Carpenter'. We have helpers, 4 levels of apprentice, and Journeyman carpenters.

Many carpenters here preform shingling tasks. Yes very few paint except smaller renovation guys. Heck even some plumbers will patch drywall they have opened up.
Much of my list could be argued as not carpentry.

So does anyone know what a journeyman qualification is needed for? 
As I understand it even non journeymen can have a carpentry company and do residential and possibly even commercial work.
My nephew is working for a builder who has no journeymen on his crew and is building apartment buildings.
He is a good builder and does quality work.

As I think about it more maybe a Journeymen certificate is not needed at all.

Not that I am against it I think it can be a good thing.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

As I said, to work on union jobs you need your journey mans ticket.

In Ontario, on my C oc Q, it simply states 'General Carpenter'. In Toronto, you can get a General Contractors License. It clearly states "all work to be done by licensed trades" 

So many are actually working illegally, it's just that there are not enough licensing inspectors to check. 

On a more personal level, I have concerns about the dillution of the trade. That is, as more and more guys work only in one aspect of the trade, the true craft and meaning of what it is to be a carpenter is becoming lost.

That is one reason I support proper apprenticeship training and certification. I think carpentry should be regulated the same as electrical and plumbing.

What is more important that the structual integity of a building? As the carpenter, you are the last line of defense to ensure a well built building, which people will live and work in. Their safety overides everything else.

As a licensed carpenter, you are aware of your legal responsibilities and therefore will refuse to do sub-standard work. I have walked off two jobs due to this. I for one will not build unsafe structures. 

That said, there are many qualified people who are not licensed. Mike Holmes is one. But if he really knew his stuff, he would write his exams.:laughing:


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## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

i think the certification is a brilliant idea, and I wish it was implemented here in the states. It would certainly weed out the idiots.


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## d-rock (Oct 17, 2009)

The term 'master carpenter' is widely misunderstood and abused. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH ABILITY. Back in the days, a young man started his carpentry career as an apprentice. Often he lived with the 'Master Carpenter', (who had his own business serving the community)while learning and working. When he became proficient, he was allowed to travel from place to place, unsupervised, offering his carpentry servies. Hence the term 'journeyman'.
Eventually the journeyman settled down and started his own business. Then he was recognized as the Master Carpenter. Master Carpenters used to meet regularly to discuss pricing and methods, to establish standards and practices. Much like we do here. So we are all master carpenters b/c we have our own businesses. 
When I hear people say 'I am a master carpenter' I have a good chuckle..
You'll notice the terms Master Electrician, or Master Plumber, are only applied when a journeyman passes a test to receive their license in those trades, then they have a right to start their own businesses..:smartass:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks for the history on that. So actually I'm a Master Carpenter. Love it, I'll change my business cards monday. :thumbup:

I'm going to see what Google has on that, later.


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## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

:thumbup-Rock thanks

Makes sense.
I wondered if a Master Carpenter was one who had apprentices under him. Hence he was the master.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Cjeff said:


> :thumbup-Rock thanks
> 
> Makes sense.
> I wondered if a Master Carpenter was one who had apprentices under him. Hence he was the master.


That cinches it. I'm the Master :thumbup: (I should say a master)


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

NormW said:


> I know the unions here refer to carpenters as journeyman, as well.


A union Journeyman is typically someone who has three-four years experience and has completed an apprenticeship program, or is someone who crossed over from non-union and has the equivalent amount of experience.

There's a test, but out here it's a joke -er - _formality_.

About 100 question open book test. Then three or four 'hands on' skill tests:

1- drive at least five 16d nails into a board in ten seconds
2- lay out a stair stringer
3- lay out the studs for a 16" OC wall on a base plate
4- something else equally trivial.

The really sad part is, you can miss ALL the hands on skill tests and 20-25 questions and still pass.

Also a Journeyman carpenter can have an extremely limited skill set. Most 'carpentry' performed by the union in the PNW is concrete work. So you can conceivably become a journeyman without ever framing anything but a concrete form (except in class).

Also, all the drywall, metal stud framing, and ceiling grid is performed by carpenters. So you can get journeyman carpenters who can hang rock or tile, but have never driven a nail or cut a piece of wood.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

as previously stated in canada TRUE journeyman carpenters go through 4 years of apprenticeship training roughly depending on quickly they can get their 8000 hrs in , every 2000 hrs the apprentice goes in for classroom training for 5 weeks. each week is a different course. each year the courses get more involved and require earlier courses to understand whats going on, with a written exam on the final day of each week pertaining to that course. at the completion of ones apprenticeship there is the interprovincial exam or the red seal exam this consists of 100 questions based on everything from site safety, hand tools, framing, siding, roofing, concrete, trim, building stairs to crane operator signals. 

anyhow. i used the term TRUE journeyman because the unions here have real journeyman carpenters who have gone through the training and on paper journeyman who simply have worked at the trade for some time. the big difference up here is though if you want to work on a government site you have to have your red seal or be a registered apprentice otherwise you not allowed on the site and they do check this.

the big thing ive noticed is that with being a journeyman on a crew with guys who arent but have plenty of experience and building skills im the the guy being asked the technical questions or asked about building codes as building science and code are two things preached in the apprenticeship. they literally beat code into you so when a site situation comes up you can practically quote what the code is or find it in the book in a matter of seconds if you dont know


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## aikenback (Jun 4, 2008)

I have had my red seal (inter province) journeyman ticket since 1989. If you are not in commercial construction it doesn't do a thing for you. I believe this is a shame and actually promotes disrespect to the trade of carpenter. Anyone can call themselves a carpenter and that cheapens the real ones. Back in 1989 at 25 yrs I was able to follow the span tables layed out by the CMHC and the Canadian Building Code to design roof components and floors etc. for residential construction. A knowledgable inspector would then approve or require revisions. The information is readily available for allowable spans etc. Now everything requires an engineer's stamp. This is, I suppose, a definite improvement but it reduces our trade to installers and further reduces the need for education and licencing. Therefore anyone can be a carpenter. It's the way it is, but tell me why the "average" plumber can easily charge significantly more than the "average" carpenter. The whole trade of Carpenter is relatively disrespected because of the butchery out there.


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## aikenback (Jun 4, 2008)

By the way, my jouneyman tests included laying out roofing components including side cuts of jacks (not 45 deg.), shortenings,unequal pitch theory, stair layout including winders etc , headroom, spans, quarter pointing beams, concrete components, forming of all types, surveying, paints, stains and finishes, trim and finishing of all types, soil types, roofing, siding, freeking everything.


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## Ryguy (Feb 20, 2010)

aikenback you are so right.:clap::clap::clap:
I have run crews where when it's time to layout intersecting vaulted ceilings
and the stepped walls necessary for such, the cutting of bell-curve hip roof, etc. every "carpenter" on site is REAL BUSY "fixing a tool" or "just finishing something over here". They have never learned the skills required, or even how to reference the code to know what they can or can't use material-wise:laughing:.
Sure they can run nail-guns, but that's what LABOURERS do. 
But come pay-day, all those "carpenters" are collecting carpenters wages:furious:

Anyone can own tools. It doesn't make you a tradesman.

Another one that burns, "I've been doing it this way for X years". I always think to myself "In X years didn't it occur to you that you should get the education required to understand the fundamentals of what you are arguing about?" Then if I'm feeling mean I ask them to show me the code relating to whatever. Usual answer " I've never read that crap, I just know how things work!"


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## aikenback (Jun 4, 2008)

Hey Ryguy, I'm a Rye guy, started when sister- in- law moved in with 2 dogs and a kid. lol. If there were any kind of licencing of Carpenters, not contractors, much like electricians, the trade would benefit, the general public would benefit, and we would be able to provide employees with a better life. The problem here(calgary, Canada) is that the big builder boys would have none of that. I moved to Calgary (boom Town) in 1991, at that time all the big builders had their respectable offices etc. Now they have huge offices with all sorts of bells and whistles etc. They are a very powerful lobby around here, so I can't see it ever happening. Carpenters don't need to be educated, that's what engineers are for.


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## lion-crest (Apr 10, 2010)

custom home building carpenters never feel that we get the respect that we so rightful deserve, because in most provinces in Canada excluding Quebec there is no real need the be licensed as a carpenter; except as was said if you are union “one licensed guy for every five non “or you’re a GC looking to do a government job. When I was apprenticing my Boss had been working as a carpenter for thirty five years building custom homes and had never pulled his card out once. Schooling just gives you a better understand of codes and the math that is involved in building. The one thing that is pissing me off now is that the townships are wonting more engineering involved in building homes even when spans are in the codes , it just an off loading of liability, making it more expensive for Joe blow to build a home. If you truly love your trade take the time to learn all you can and build a better home for your customers, and have fun in the Rat Race.:w00t:


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

well said and very true
i cant remember if i stated this in my previous post and too hopped up on painkillers right now to scroll up, anyhow im generally the goto guy with my gc when it comes to code issues and such. the gc's father works for the company and is a licensed contractor in florida but this is nova scotia canada. any time a code issue comes up he looks it up in his 1990 code where as i have the current code book. we both check to see if things have changed pertaining to the code issue. we have 7 others in the company none of which have spent any time learning to interpret code however all are incredible carpenters i just wouldnt want to play drinking games with em:jester:


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## cairnstone (Oct 26, 2008)

There was a report written here in Vancouver about the leaky Condo Crisis we had. And the engineers recommended certification of all trades but the actuaries and accountants said that the additional cost would be to great so carpentry was deregulated in BC briefly. It was changed into a variety of sub trades ex. wall and ceiling, formworker, framing tech., interior install tech. This allowed several small schools to pop up and train anyone with a pulse. 

Leap forward and a change of minister things were put back to normal do to the lack of labour to complete all the work due to the Olympic here.

I have 3 trades as a background. And when I started my carpentry in 2000 you had to have a ticket or be an apprentice to work on any infrastructure or industrial jobs this was both union and non union and there was a ratio of 3 journeyman to 1 or something like that. Now anyone can be anything in this province except plumbers and electricians it seams. 

I was just contacted from my add on CL and the guy was wanting a price for a new custom fence and garden shed. I gave him a quick rough estimate on the labour. I heard a pause and he told said he had 2 diffent guys that would do it for $15 an hour. All I could do to respond was say have a nice day. This is the same city 2 years ago where companies would steal crews with cash safety bonus that where close to $1000 a month for not leaving and staying the job.

Jasen


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## Bencouver (Sep 17, 2009)

i am just in the middle of my fourth year at BCIT right now. 3 weeks to go and fingers crossed i'll be ticketed. my favorite thing is the theory and the math, especially the unequal pitch intersecting roof stuff. i just freakin love that you can figure that stuff out from the ground. i am so grateful to be doing an apprenticeship and i think if you take it seriously and learn all you can it will put you way ahead of guys who never go. i mean c'mon when will anybody ever take the time to really teach a guy all the theory involved in building the really cool stuff. even though i'm not geared to be at school and always prefer to be working i still think it is a great opportunity.


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## AirborneCMD (Apr 26, 2011)

*Why earn a certification in carpentry...*

A certified/ticketed carpenter shows potential employers that they have acheived a minimum knowledge of their trade craft. You are right about it not being mandatory to have certification...but I make a great living fixing non-certified and handyman errors. ei worked 9 months last year and made over 80k. You learn alot when you attend trade school...much of which is lost on people who don`t want or choose not to go. My father is a carpenter and started as an apprentice when he was 14 years old...he just turned 77. You can spend a lifetime learning your trade...but it shows in your skill level. As for the comment about master carpenter...yes they do exist but they are a rare breed. The old european system of apprentice/journeyman/master still exists to this day. In 20 years in the trades I have only met 2 master carpenters... 1 from England, and 1 from Germany...and both in thier late 60`s. If you are serious about becoming a carpenter... get an apprenticeship, go to school and earn your RED SEAL.....we can always use committed journeyman in our ranks. Good Luck


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

If carpentry was more regulated for certification like plumbing or electrical, then carpenters could charge/make higher wages.

That's what pisses me off, I love my trade but there is always Bob down the street with a few tools and a pickup truck that will charge at least ten bucks less an hour. It's not viewed by many people as something where certification is needed, when in fact there is a lot to know and a lot of people out there offering services don't know it. There are a lot of good guys without tickets, however since it is so unregulated you never know who is calling themselves a carpenter.

On jobsites most guys will tell you that the red seal doesn't mean anything (these are the guys who don't have it) however I think it helps in a lot of areas-code knowledge, things like stairs and rafters, blueprints. Where I find it especially useful is building confidence with clients. 

Same thing for painters I think, take a real pro painter, when the guy down the street is laid off from work, and is suddently a painter for hire, at half the price. A lot of people don't understand the differences there in skill and abilities and quality of job.


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## AirborneCMD (Apr 26, 2011)

Yes I would like to see carpentry become a mandatory trade certification. Too many people and employers lose money because untrained labours(aka tradespersons) are doing the work. Would you go to a doctor who says I am an Un-certified Doctor...of course not. Than why would you trust your most expensive possesion..ie your home or condo to someone who does not care enough to earn their trade certification. 

Don`t get angry...use your skills as a tradesman to show customers the difference. I love showing up people who come around working..telling me they are Un-certified Journeyman...guess what..NO SUCH TERM EXISTS!! Call it Skilled Labour, call it Handyman with some carpentry experience but please tell them to leave the term `CARPENTER`to those who have earned the right to use it.

If it was easy to earn a certification everyone would do it..but it is hard. Its takes dedication and and a hell of a lot of hard work. Plumbers, electrians, painters etc who are certified are very proud of their certification and will tell you this. Be proud of your RED SEAL, it is a badge of honour amongst tradesman.

Good Luck


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

case in point
today i started on at one of the local universitys, as a staff carpenter. only people to be considered for the position are to be journeyman carpenters. only other ones eligible are registered apprentices

$4 more an hour and alot less stress


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

woodworkbykirk said:


> case in point
> today i started on at one of the local universitys, as a staff carpenter. only people to be considered for the position are to be journeyman carpenters. only other ones eligible are registered apprentices
> 
> $4 more an hour and alot less stress



That is a really great gig I hear, I was actually looking into it awhile ago.

If i'm ever looking for employment again, probably the first place i'd look.

Is that union there? here it is all union. Mind you I was looking at school district jobs.


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

So basically all of the people who have worked in framing industry for years now, and have moved on from their employers are disrespecting the trade? I worked for the same guy for 11 yrs and was his crew leader, running 3 crews. But because I didn't do a legit apprenticeship I am disrespecting the trade? I don't have a ticket, but I will tell you I put out a quality product. And take offense to some of the comments posted earlier. I know the code, I have been approached and asked to frame something that was sketchy at best, and know when to walk away from these situations. But because I work my ass off 7 days a week and take pride in my work, I am being disrespectful to the trade? So be it. But I do have to agree that now a days with the DIY network and Holmes on the tv, anyone with a home depot credit card thinks they are framers. That is a disrespect to the trade. Not the guys who have earned their respected reputation's. But who am I too say anything, cause I don't have a seal, or a C of Q..... There is my 2 cents


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Like I said, I think there are a lot of good guys who don't have tickets.

I think the problem is that the industry is unregulated, driving down the wages. I've worked with a lot of guys who were hired as "carpenters" who were more like a first or second year apprentice. Not saying this has anything to do with them having a ticket or not, however if more guys placed emphasis on having their certification, I believe we can get higher wages. 

As mentioned too, part of the certification would mean having people who are well rounded-framing, finishing, commercial and residential knowledge.

I'm not putting down people without tickets, but i've heard a lot of guys on the job putting down guys with tickets, when if more made the effort to obtain it, we could be seeking hire wages, IMO.

Have you thought about writing your IP? sounds like you have the experience to do it.


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

Yes, I have thought about it and would love too. Just for my own personal satisfaction. I just don't have the time. Pulling 7 days a week doesn't leave much time for anything. But in my opinion in my area it isn't the license that is driving down the prices. It is these under cutting framing contractors that have no limit of just screwing up anything a d everything they can put a bid on.

For example I had the pleasure of putting in a bid on a custom that was pretty chopped up all hand cut with vaults trays and barrels everywhere. And first I was under cut by $1000 so judging the prices of the job I knew what limit I was willing to drop before it just wasn't worth it. Without getting into great detail, end result was losing the house cause the guy went as far $8000 under . So by all that is polite in me I walk away. Then I got a call a month after the fact. To please come and rescue the house from the butchered state it was in. And I had to gracefully as could walk away cause they get what thy pay for. To me these are the cases that bring down the prices. Cause now a days no one give respect for a great , clean frame. Thy just want their houses framed fast and on no budget. Reason why cause these builders, home owners know that no matter how low the price goes someone out there will work for that stupidly low price.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

Yeah I hear ya, I find the same thing doing house reno's here.

I guess if people were more educated on hiring, and basically understood "you get what you pay for" we could more easily do the work we take pride in, they can get what they desire, and all these hackjobs wouldn't be as prevalent.


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

Yep I have one happening right now, on a Reno. The part that is driving me nuts is these people just seem like they are playing games. This guy wants to throw a 3 ply 2x8 in the ceiling to take down a 14' bearing wall. I don't care where you are with roof load coming down on it, that is not going to fly. But these people are just running back and forth. Doing the ol' what would you do and what would you do. I am ready to walk away . Again ya get what ya pay for.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

I'd be real careful with that one. Maybe tell buddy to go talk to an engineer about his grand plans:laughing:

You don't want to be liable for him thinking he can throw up whatever he wants hey.

I've had people like that, try and tell you how to build or that they want this door here or whatever, if they won't listen to reason, I think best bet is to move on. 

Thats why they are supposed to hire us right, because we know how to put it all back together again. I guess some just view it as we are there to provide the grunt labour.


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

Yes i have already consulted and engineer on the matter cause i figured i was the only one with a bid on the job. But this guy is looking at me and running back the other bidder and playing both sides of the fence. Which i really don't like. But he has til this friday to sign. If not, moving on.


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

yeah well hope it works out, if not sounds like the next job might be a bit more straitforward:thumbsup:


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## AirborneCMD (Apr 26, 2011)

I never meant to insult anyone who takes their trade seriously. If you have as much experience as you say you might be able to take a code refresher course and challenge your ticket for equivlent status. Many carpenters are in your situation...what is difficult is seperating the pretenders from the tradesman..that is what certification is meant to do. Check out your local trades board...this might be a better route for you. Besides I don`t think you want to spend 6 weeks in a class full of newbies learning how to use a hand saw.

In B.C. where I am living we go to the ITA site for info..they should have links for every province and territory. Again sorry if I pushed you into a corner...but as a carpenter just turn into the corner, make sure its 90 degrees true and plum LOL . Good Luck


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

no worries


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

The trade of carpentry has become quite extensive. Today there are guys that just frame, or just do trim work. Many of these are excellent carpenters at what they do.

But here's the difference. Let's say I'm a large company doing a large project. If I call the union hall and say "send me 30 carpenters" they send me 30 carpenters. 

Now, these guys may be called upon to form for concrete, do framing, erect scaffolding, build bucks for the masons, do interior wainscott and trim, build stairs, who knows. The thing is they all have been trained in this. Also they all will have their WHMIS, fall arrest, scaffold training, etc.

This is the purpose of the training. So a carpenter can be sent to a project and be able to perform whatever task is assigned him/her.


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

Hey Kato was waiting for you to come back. I understand what your saying, but I also feel we are going to beat this into nothing. Oh and I made a few calls and apparently I dont need to goto school to get my ticket. Cause I have well over 8000 hrs in. Just pay some money and write the exam. Might just do it for the hell of it


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

CanningCustom said:


> Hey Kato was waiting for you to come back. I understand what your saying, but I also feel we are going to beat this into nothing. Oh and I made a few calls and apparently I dont need to goto school to get my ticket. Cause I have well over 8000 hrs in. Just pay some money and write the exam. Might just do it for the hell of it


Absolutely!! You can write your exams if you have time in. If you can't prove your time in through past employment, you can swear an affidavit to that effect, have it notarized, and they will accept that.

I'll see if I can find a list of all that is covered on the exams. But my stuff is OLD. Anyone here have a current list? 

I say go for it. It can open doors for you, plus it's another sales tool.

I don't think anyone here is saying unlicenced carpenters are not good carpenters. In the US it is a different system. Lots of good guys down there. I'll take a man's qualifications one guy at a time. :thumbsup:

Here's one link http://www.itabc.ca/Page603.aspx


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## CanningCustom (Nov 4, 2007)

Kato, thanks man if we could come up with that list of stuff that is on the exam. I will do it


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

yeah it's actually pretty basic, I wrote it two years ago.

Stairs-theory of strait run stairs, no landings or L's, no headroom questions

Roofs-layout commons, possibly hips

basic plan reading

other than that a lot of the questions were very basic, you just needed on the job experience-how to plunge a skill saw, what saw do you use to cut out a hole for a sink in a countertop. 


framing terminology, concrete formwork terminology, some door stuff, swing of door, etc.

Honestly it wasn't that bad, and i'm someone who had to get a math tutor to get through 4th year. The math stuff is all first year. Probably be a good idea to be up on your metric a bit as well.

That's for the one i wrote anyways, I don't know how many different tests there are, or if they've changed anything


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Here's a more comprehensive list http://trades.exambank.com/carpentry.html

Also, if you want a good book on the geometry of roof framing get "construction geometry" from Lee Valley.


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## Brutus (May 29, 2007)

katoman said:


> Here's a more comprehensive list http://trades.exambank.com/carpentry.html
> 
> Also, if you want a good book on the geometry of roof framing get "construction geometry" from Lee Valley.




In first year community college... we were given the Lee Valley cataloge as study/test material.

"here... learn some tools" :laughing:


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## AirborneCMD (Apr 26, 2011)

If you are going to write your IP you sould take a IP refresher course to help you prep for your exam. I am not near my home right now or I would give you a current list of books that are really helpful. The ITA site mentioned from Kato is a good place to start. Remember the IP exam is based on the National Building Codes and not Provincial. You should get sections 9 and 3...get comfortable looking up code. Also a great book is Carpentry by Vogt...it has about 80% of what you would need to pass any practical. Hope that helps and good luck.


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

the university maintenance department is union but its not through the carpenters union. the school has its own union

turns out many of the guys in maintenance know of me and my family, several of them were taught by my old man back in their high school days plus the old man was one of the football coaches at the university. small world when you start and guys recognize me but remember me being much shorter


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## BC Carpenter (Dec 28, 2010)

AirborneCMD said:


> If you are going to write your IP you sould take a IP refresher course to help you prep for your exam. I am not near my home right now or I would give you a current list of books that are really helpful. The ITA site mentioned from Kato is a good place to start. Remember the IP exam is based on the National Building Codes and not Provincial. You should get sections 9 and 3...get comfortable looking up code. Also a great book is Carpentry by Vogt...it has about 80% of what you would need to pass any practical. Hope that helps and good luck.


yeah, i forgot about that, lots of code

they do give you the national building code, you just need to be able to look stuff up in a timely manner.


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## cairnstone (Oct 26, 2008)

In BC 7 years or so ago the Red Seal was to be phased out and replaced with a building for dummies style of program. I just heard the other day apprentices will now need to do a much longer time I think an additional 1000 hours. 

So in places where there is no school who regulates the plumbers and electricians. Are they having to go to school or just supply hours and and write an exam.


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