# How do you charge for BS Handyman work?



## Tom F. (Sep 3, 2007)

I generally build high-end Spec houses. But, things being what they are, (got three sitting) I am doing some oddball work, mostly for previous customers. I just did a granite countertop replacement for a lady I bank with. Subbed the granite to my regular guy, took my 15% on that cost. Then charged $35/hr for prep and post installation work. The problem is that I end up working like a handyman and don't make much at all for my time and trouble. This morning, in 1:15, I removed an old kitchen faucet assy, installed the new one, caulked around all the new backsplash in the kitchen and bathroom, adjusted the height of her stove, adjusted her dishwasher, prepped some DW for painting, cleaned up, and all the while listened to her crazy BS while she critiqued my work. Took me 30 minutes each way as well as my fixed costs of insurance, licensing, and equipment. This is about the 5th trip to her house in total for the job. And I have to go back once more next week. Now she has decided she is so happy with the work, she would like to get the second bath top done in Granite, and oh, by the way, could you caulk the cracks in the crown molding and touch up some paint here and there? (I didn't build the house.)

WTF!?!!

Stuff like this is exactly why I don't like to do custom work. Did I mention that she insists on being present anytime I am there? She knows my personal finances to the penny, hired me basically because of my reputation for quality and honesty, but I cannot be trusted to be in the house unattended? Is this the normal deal with these customers? How do you stand it?

My wife says just be glad for the work. F that, is what I feel like.

Tom


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

You normally work as a manager and now find yourself doing handyman type jobs which is a misapplication of your skills. This really, really sucks and hopefully this is a temporary situation.

My advice would be to adopt a Flat Rate Pricing strategy and stop charging T&M.


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## Ahren (Nov 20, 2007)

I tell HO's on T&M jobs that my rate doubles if they watch, and triples if they help. They usually get the message.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Nothing turns crappy jobs in great jobs like money! Charge a hell of a lot more. At the very least $50/hr. You've already set a rate for this client, but next time charge more. And just spit it out of your mouth like it's a matter of fact. "I'll just charge you $50/hr for this..." It's important to include the word 'just'. It makes it sound like you're giving them a break. Seriously. And then next job say, "I'm just going to charge you $60/hr for this". Try it, you'll like it.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

35 is way too low did u add your PITA multiplier?:jester:


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## True North (Oct 10, 2007)

I like it!


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## boman47k (Oct 13, 2006)

Whatever happened to the minimum 2 hrs? 3hrs, etc?


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## arturjhawk (Mar 7, 2007)

Ahren said:


> I tell HO's on T&M jobs that my rate doubles if they watch, and triples if they help. They usually get the message.


:thumbup::laughing:


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## gregj (Jul 31, 2006)

$35 per hour; gee Tom could you come over to my house for a couple hours every week and do all those things on my "honey do" list that I keep putting off. The wife would be glad to watch and offer helpful advice.


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## Tom F. (Sep 3, 2007)

*Lesson learned*

Yeah, I knew it was way low. And the PITA multiplier definitely needed to included. The only good news is that I talked this woman out of doing a big bonus room addition. I would have died with that job.

She did actually make brownies with ice cream, one day, so it wasn't all loss!

The real problem is that with the current economy, there isn't much project manager-type work to be had. I'm counting on these types of odd jobs and infrequent residential elevator installations to keep the lights on until things come around. 

I have a potential interior trim job coming up next week. They want to pay me by the hour, and I am inclined to agree. It is a big historic restoration-type job. Probably 2 months worth of work, depending on whether I bring a crew or do it myself. Any ideas on what hourly rates apply here? I'm thinking its a minimum $45/hr job. Keep in mind that this is East Tennessee, not the high rent district.

Tom


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

How much does a highly skilled union carpenter make? Take that rate, add your insurance, worker's comp, travel time, cel phone bill, etc, and there you are. I'd say $50-60/hr.

I have a friend who was laid off from his computer job, couldn't find another, and started a handyman service about 5 years ago. He began at a striaght $30/hr. He now charges $55 striaght, plus 1 hour travel, plus all his time running to Home Depot for materials, and charges a $50 "appearance fee. In other words, it's $50 to get him to the door even if you don't hire him. And it's non refundable even if you do. He is so busy every day that he now limits himself to 5 days a week and Saturday mornings.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

Geez.. I'm in rural S.C and charge $65 ph for any skilled work. Tile, trim, cabinets, countertops. You guys are behind times on this kinda thing. For crappy small jobs you have to charge more, just to make up for the B/S.

As for the HO watching, I don't get that. i have keys to 5 homes right now.... "Here's a spare key...come and go as you need to."


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## Celtic (May 23, 2007)

You'll know your price plateau when they say "....umm....lemme get back to you ..." 

Keep upping the price until you here the ummm'ing.


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## macmikeman (Sep 12, 2005)

boman47k said:


> Whatever happened to the minimum 2 hrs? 3hrs, etc?


I hate giving a minimum hours figure out. Cause if I did then the customer expects me to be on the site that long working. I much prefer quoting the job in front, while figuring I might be on the job 2 or 3 hours, and then completing the work and bagging out with my payment after 1 hour. (or less). While it may sound the same, its not, cause you have removed all the expectation of a time frame from the work, and yet you are compensated at the same figure.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

macmikeman said:


> I hate giving a minimum hours figure out. Cause if I did then the customer expects me to be on the site that long working. I much prefer quoting the job in front, while figuring I might be on the job 2 or 3 hours, and then completing the work and bagging out with my payment after 1 hour. (or less). While it may sound the same, its not, cause you have removed all the expectation of a time frame from the work, and yet you are compensated at the same figure.


In most circumstances we should all be able to think in our heads how long a simple job is going to take. Figure that time plus your materials plus extras now add 2 hours to your figure.Do all of this in your head. get a rough guesstimate of how much it will be. Convert that to flat rate on paper now you have your estimate for a small job.

VANITY Installation
Say it's 3 hours to rip out an old vanity and install new one without changing any plumbing other than to install a shut off valve. Now add your materials. Travel time+ time in store= 2 hrs round driving to home and store and back.Thats now 5 hr's. $65x5+$950. now add the extra 2 hours. 2x$65.
TOTAL= $1405.....DOES THIS SOUND HIGH? hmmmm customer paid it last week. And this is how i do on the spot estmates. If a customer has a water leak they aren't going to wait 3 days for me to write up a proposal.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

wizendwizard said:


> In most circumstances we should all be able to think in our heads how long a simple job is going to take. Figure that time plus your materials plus extras now add 2 hours to your figure.Do all of this in your head. get a rough guesstimate of how much it will be. Convert that to flat rate on paper now you have your estimate for a small job.
> 
> VANITY Installation
> Say it's 3 hours to rip out an old vanity and install new one without changing any plumbing other than to install a shut off valve. Now add your materials. Travel time+ time in store= 2 hrs round driving to home and store and back.Thats now 5 hr's. $65x5+$950. now add the extra 2 hours. 2x$65.
> TOTAL= $1405.....DOES THIS SOUND HIGH? hmmmm customer paid it last week. And this is how i do on the spot estmates. If a customer has a water leak they aren't going to wait 3 days for me to write up a proposal.


$950 + $130 =$1405?:blink:


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

mahlere said:


> $950 + $130 =$1405?:blink:


Don't forget the 5 hours at the beginning.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

L. B. Condulet said:


> Don't forget the 5 hours at the beginning.


:blink::blink:

just saw the $65x5+$950....where does the $950 come from?

this math is making me dizzy...


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

$950 was for the vanity and water valve. I think.


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## gregnc (Dec 2, 2007)

Ahren said:


> I tell HO's on T&M jobs that my rate doubles if they watch, and triples if they help. They usually get the message.


 
saw a sign on a plumbers van once it said pick any 2
1-fast
2-cheap
3-professional
fast and cheap =it aint profesional
cheap and profesional =it aint fast
fast and profesional =*it aint cheap*


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## L. B. Condulet (Aug 23, 2007)

If it takes 3 hours to R&R the vanity, and 2 hours to go to the store, how did the 3 hours suddenly become 5 hours? Then he added 2 hours for the trip to the store. Mahlere, yeah, I think he charged twice for the trip to the store, maybe he's pulling a trailer? That would explain charging twice for the trip...


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

don't look at me...i never went past Calculus II....this is some type of rocket science astro physics math...


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

gregnc said:


> saw a sign on a plumbers van once it said pick any 2
> 1-fast
> 2-cheap
> 3-professional
> ...


 

BRAVO!!!... PERFECTO!!!!... :clap::thumbsup::laughing::jester:

A logical game, it means that 1 + 2 = Not 3; 2 + 3 = Not 1; and 1 + 3 = Not 2 !!! ....hahaha


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

SelfContract said:


> BRAVO!!!... PERFECTO!!!!... :clap::thumbsup::laughing::jester:
> 
> A logical game, it means that 1 + 2 = Not 3; 2 + 3 = Not 1; and 1 + 3 = Not 2 !!! ....hahaha


there are those who will argue that all 3 can be achieved...i call those people delusional....


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## buildenterprise (Dec 4, 2007)

mahlere said:


> there are those who will argue that all 3 can be achieved...i call those people delusional....


....and out of business!


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## works4me (Sep 1, 2007)

I've do lots of handyman work (about 40-50% of my work). I price all items - almost never T&M. It's hit and miss on each item but I cover myself with the project total normally. This week had one punch list for an old house: Two ceilings with cracking plaster, replace front doorknob, build access door over hole cut in plaster wall behind shower valves, & replace toilet seat. Proposal : Patch office ceiling and retexture - $325.00 (they turned down the new drywall route; I told them the patch job would most likely crack again (in my proposal also) in the future, but they wanted cheap/ same with laundry ceiling - $275.00/ access door - $135.00 / front door knob replace (owner buys) - $65.00 = $800.00 (not alot, but it was for a Realtors clients and this realtor gives me alot of business so I try to keep them happy). Oh, I actually put the toilet seat (owner buys) in the proposal as free - $0.00, I always try to throw a cheap or free bone out there, especially on something that has no material cost and can be done in about 2 minutes. I hit them on other things to cover it. Started about 8:30 with one helper, took a long lunch and done by 2:30. Materials - bag of 5 min., bucket of Joint Com., and 1x16x24 board with hinges and knob - total $38.00 Left me at about $75.00/hr figuring 8 hrs (including bid/proposal time). Now to T&M that I would have to tell them I need $75/hr for me plus $25.00/hr for worker and add materials - they would have probably said "NO THANK YOU" - or charge less /hr to get the job and milk it some (i hate doing that, that's why i don't t&m) to get the same amount. Left the bill on the table when I left (wednesday) and got the check in the mail already today (Friday) in 2 days - so YES they were happy to pay me that much. The biggest benifit is flexability on the customers part, most give me the option (and a key) to do their job when I can fit it in like this one day one. Something shuts down on the bigger project and we hit them the next day to fill a time gap and back to the big one. Without that flexability it would be dificult if the client was demanding and I would charge more accordingly to pull off a job to accomodate them.


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## Pete M (Dec 10, 2007)

Tom F. said:


> I generally build high-end Spec houses. ...... Then charged $35/hr for prep and post installation work. The problem is that I end up working like a handyman and don't make much at all for my time and trouble.
> WTF!?!!
> 
> Tom


Tom.... I'm going to post something here that you may find hard to believe.

You are performing service work with a new construction mentality. Why is it that the weakest repair plumbers, electricians and HVAC guys can command upwards of $1,000/day in labor or more and the new construction guys in the same trades don't? It's beacuse they bid or flate rate the entire job and they have to charge that much. The guys that work by the hour get a lot less. That's the truth.

You're a specialist too. You're basing your prices by the type of work. My dentist charges me for his expertise, regardless if he's cleaning my teeth or performing surgery. He's still a doctor no matter what service he's performing. You should go after at least $500 for a half day of work. It's all in how you present it to the customer. You're not a handyman, the customer isn't getting a handyman and you shouldn't be paid like a handyman.


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## wizendwizard (Nov 11, 2007)

L. B. Condulet said:


> If it takes 3 hours to R&R the vanity, and 2 hours to go to the store, how did the 3 hours suddenly become 5 hours? Then he added 2 hours for the trip to the store. Mahlere, yeah, I think he charged twice for the trip to the store, maybe he's pulling a trailer? That would explain charging twice for the trip...


Read it more closely people......... the additional 2 hours was the profit margin. it's a click charge for taking the small job to begin with. I said it plainly. DO ALL THESE NUMBERS IN YOUR HEAD not on paper. That way the customer doesn't know where the h..ll it comes into play.You never tell your customer EXACTLY how you are charging. Customers will pay the price. Thats why we are professionals and not lowballers.


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## fez-head (Mar 15, 2005)

Pete M said:


> You're not a handyman, the customer isn't getting a handyman and you shouldn't be paid like a handyman.


_Handyman is a term referring to a person competent in a variety of trade skills, inventive/ingenious repair, and maintenance work. The term often describes someone who is paid for the application of these skills around the home. Tasks for which a handyman is employed may be as simple as a minor drywall repair, or as complex as remodeling a bathroom.

Some handymen are more skilled than others and perform more than just general repairs. A good handyman is skillful, dexterous, practical, clever, able, competent, and proficient in whatever it is they are doing. Some handymen are licensed and insured. Some are not. There are different laws for different jurisdictions and licensing/insurance are not always required. For safety reasons, most jurisdictions disallow handymen from working on plumbing (they can undertake minor works such as replacing taps, connecting up new sinks, fixing dripping taps or installing new washing machines etc.), electrical wiring or gas-fitting services without being licensed in the applicable trade._

There are all levels of Handyman Service and price levels for such. Our strarting point is at $79 per man hour (when not working flat rate) and I have heard of $125+ in the citys. It all depends on your target clientèle - so don't be scared to get paid like a Handyman.


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## a2zhandi (Nov 2, 2007)

I have been doing strictly custom work for the last 25 years or so. 
Welcome to my nightmare!!
I once had a woman who asked me for my hours after the job was finished. 
She said my hours were higher than what she had written down. 
I then asked her if she thought the materials, tools as well as myself fell out of the sky the moment I stepped out of bed and landed on her front lawn.
She paid my hours, and I never looked back.


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## Pete M (Dec 10, 2007)

Jesse Kirchhoff said:


> _Handyman is a term referring to a person competent in a variety of trade skills, inventive/ingenious repair, and maintenance work. _.


Jesse, that definition does not hold true accross the country. A discussion group like this reaches far beyond state lines. In the two states where I actively contracted, a handyman is not considered _competent in a variety of trade skills._ By definition, they are "handy". They are typically unlicensed and not considered highly skilled in any particular area. There is a huge differential between how handymen are compensated and how licensed contractors are compensated.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

"*Passing a CERT state exam*" defines a "boundary/line" between a handyman and a licensed Pro I think. 

Is that what a saying...>> "*Knowledge is Power*" is all about?.. or "*Experience is Father of ALL trades*"?.... just kidding... don't shoot me please :thumbup: :laughing:


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

Stone Mountain said:


> How much does a highly skilled union carpenter make? Take that rate, add your insurance, worker's comp, travel time, cel phone bill, etc, and there you are. I'd say $50-60/hr.
> 
> I have a friend who was laid off from his computer job, couldn't find another, and started a handyman service about 5 years ago. He began at a striaght $30/hr. He now charges $55 striaght, plus 1 hour travel, plus all his time running to Home Depot for materials, and charges a $50 "appearance fee. In other words, it's $50 to get him to the door even if you don't hire him. And it's non refundable even if you do. He is so busy every day that he now limits himself to 5 days a week and Saturday mornings.


I've tried this approach off and on for nearly 20 years. I only try it when I'm swamped, and it never works. It will not work in my market. (Wichita,KS). No H/O is ever willing to pay hourly for non-emergency work. I'm sure your friend is only doing hot water tanks, plumbing leaks, and hvac service. These are the only trades where you can stick it to the H/O right out of the gate. 

Best way is to bid them handyman jobs high, get your foot in the door with 1/2 down and then come up with an excuse as to why your price needs to double after you start the work. Works like a charm.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

Brock said:


> Best way is to bid them handyman jobs high, get your foot in the door with 1/2 down and then come up with an excuse as to why your price needs to double after you start the work. Works like a charm.


I hope your customers know more about the internet than they know about hiring contractors......was this supposed to be good advice?


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## Brock (Dec 16, 2007)

Pearce Services said:


> I hope your customers know more about the internet than they know about hiring contractors......was this supposed to be good advice?


 
Of course it is, and it's the best type of advice-free! It only took me a couple decades to come up with the system at a cost of over a mill easy. In fact, can you give any better advice than that? I advise you to re-read my post, and soak it in before your next reply. 

Keep in mind I am in my 23rd year of this, racing toward retirement,and have tried it all in the residential market and interviewed hordes of people in the industry since disco was popular. But,I will be the first to admit that I am always searching for new ideas, so by all means please let me know if you have one -other than just puking out criticism of others.:thumbsup:


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

I re-read your post a few times, and all I am getting out of it is to give them a price, suck them in, then rob them blind with some lame-ass justification that a little old lady could never understand, then strong-arm her into paying, or you'll be forced to leave with whatever money of hers you have, and a house torn apart.

Yeah, I have a decent idea, _*but*_ it requires some integrity....

Offer a proposal to do a set amount of work for a fixed price, and honor your arrangement.


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## Ahren (Nov 20, 2007)

Brock said:


> Best way is to bid them handyman jobs high, get your foot in the door with 1/2 down and then come up with an excuse as to why your price needs to double after you start the work. Works like a charm.





Geez, I wonder why a lot people view contractors as crooks?


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