# Property Boundary Lines in FL (2) two corner pins question



## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

http://1drv.ms/1EM0MBHHopefully I submitted into the correct category. I have a plot of land 80 ft by 143 ft there are (2) corner pins (IR caped) on the NE corner since there is a curve in the road - trying to determine how the adjacent lot (call it lot 19) boundary lines would intersect.

I can suplly current surey.
Why?
I ran a string line from back lot pin N 52 degree 47ft 10" west to the front lot pin mentioned above. However there is (2) pins there mine lot 20 and then 1.89 ft would be another pin for lot 19 so there is a gap who gets to put there sod there?

link to pic: http://1drv.ms/1EM0MBH


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

personally, i would call the LS of record...and ask him.

pulling strings unless you're 100% of what is where....is going to get you into a pile of trouble.

sometimes, spending a couple of hundred bucks saves thousands down the road.


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## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

1. I have the certified survey and talked to the surveyor who said findthepins.
2. What's wrong g with running string from pin to pin and checking measurements to survey?/I paid for survey.
3, let me ask again different way. I removed sod on the right of pic go to above org post for link which was encroaching but not any more. Question is there is a space between lot 19 and lot 20 of.pins which is 1.89/ft how and where with what from who does this get filled #its not an easement,


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## JDEERE (Feb 3, 2015)

I am having difficulty following what you are saying. Do you have 2 pins set by 2 different surveyors or do you have 1 pin that does not match with the bearing and distance you pulled? As a rule of surveying practice, the original monument will always take precedence over a bearing and distance called out in a deed.


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## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

To answer: take a look at this picture again:
here is the link: http://1drv.ms/1KTrjBA
http://1drv.ms/1KTrjBA

I added some more detail.

From looking at the picture (photo only) straight on We have lot 19 PIN(left side) and Lot 20 PIN right side.
I own lot 20.

I torn out the Zoysia lawn (LOT 19 st. augustine) that you see between lot 19 and lot 20. long story why 2 cutivations of sod and how the encroachment happened* Professor in horticulture not surveying.

My question is again, from certified survey and from the picture there are TWO PINS. Both labeled capped 5122. (You cant see one of the cap pins since the rebar stake I put in for measuring is blocking it- stake just for measuring not permenant).
From the survey there is 1.89 feet from "those two pins" in the picture (assuming one on left is lot 19- again on my survey its used as a reference point just like for lot 21 other adjacent lot -ref points common practice of surveyors) since the one on right is mine lot 20 and confirms the measurement to 80 ft Northeast to the other corner pin cap 5122 and confirms with the back lot corner.

Yes long winded WHO GETS THE SPACE BETWEEN THE TWO PINS OF 1.89 ft.?


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Pull out the marker you don't like and call it a day.

Problem solved.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

My neighbor and I got into disputes about where the property line is. Turns out there are two plats for our property in the courthouse, one differing by 5' from the other. A plat from the neighbor on the other side clued me onto this.

I found the pins for our property using a metal detector. 
I also wrote the county asking that the surveyor be disciplined. I never heard back.

Your gap probably represents a dispute between surveyors or companies, and an embarrassment to the county. 
Check surrounding plats to see if this gap is causing other problems as yet undiscovered by less diligent owners.

You may need an attorney to resolve this.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q="open+and+notorious"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


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## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

gteb first i asked a specific question never stated I had a problem.

Your solutions are illegal actions to pull pins.

Stop being a shizer and stop replying.

Wier Varpiss Dich!.


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## Cujo (Jan 12, 2015)

never surveyed in FL before. But what we would do is go back and find the oldest monument we could find that we knew was accurate and then basically start over and resurvey to find the correct property corner.

More than this to it, I've taken my sleeping pill and falling asleep as I type this.

ETA: Not sure on FL laws but if someone has been using the property in question (the gap between the lots) for a set amount of time its theirs.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Germans may have trouble understanding American culture, verstehen sie?

Tgeb is a good representation of the American attitude about details like this which makes you the odd man out.

But I would pursue this gap thing. 

Welcome to America. Viel spass, viel gluck und tut mir leid.


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## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

When I had the surveryor on the phone he mentioned a curve in the street- is skeptical. 
His time was limited on the phone, and he did pull the jobid to look at the actual numbers.
The surveyor did say: Make sure you use the correct pin when drawing your line to the back corner pin of the lot. which I did.

Apparently need to go back with the pics to the surveyor ask why is their this gap of 1.89 ft between pins; how does this curve?, or tangent get applied in the surverying business?

these would be my questions: 

Point of Intersection (PI): the point at which the two tangents to the curve intersect
Delta Angle: the angle between the tangents is also equal to the angle at the center of the curve
Back Tangent: for a survey progressing to the right, it is the straight line that connects the PC to the PI
Forward Tangent: for a survey progressing to the right, it is the straight line that connects the PI to the PT
Point of Curvature (PC): the beginning point of the curve
Point of Tangency (PT): the end point of the curve
Tangent Distance (T): the distance from the PC to PI or from the PI to PT
External Distance (E): the distance from the PI to the middle point of the curve
Middle Ordinate (M): the distance from the middle point of the curve to the middle of the chord joining the PC and PT
Long Chord (LC): the distance along the line joining the PC and the PT
Length of Curve: the difference in stationing along the curve between the PC and the PT


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

There is no space between the two lots. At least one marker is placed incorrectly. If you believe that your pin is accurately placed, then plant on your property, and ignore the other pin, as tgeb says.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

You paid for the survey. You either have to assume the new survey is correct and the old one is wrong or get them back out there to straighten it out. 

Although it is against the law to remove survey pins. I would think there should be an exclusion for a survey company to do it. If they survey a lot, usually they have to survey a couple more to double check everything. I would imagine it is not uncommon for them to find lots that are surveyed wrong. Then they re-set the pins.

Your legal description will tell the size of the lot. Does the legal description match the pins they put in?


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## charlie828 (Feb 22, 2009)

Arguing with a surveyor is like wrestling with a pig. After a while you will realize they are enjoying it way more than you are.
1.89 feet? That's just normal expansion from the Florida heat and humidity.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

1.89'

what is the issue here? $ 50.00 worth of sod? $1.00 worth of gas in the lawnmower to cut it every year? Are you selling? This falls under the 'know which fights to pick' and I haven't figured out whether this fight is worth anything. 

I will say I see survey pins out by an inch here and there all the time, when laying out for a foundation we always use the one tightest to the centre of the property as our lots can be very small so set backs are a concern.


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## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

charlie828 said:


> Arguing with a surveyor is like wrestling with a pig. After a while you will realize they are enjoying it way more than you are.
> 1.89 feet? That's just normal expansion from the Florida heat and humidity.


Some of you humans: when you respond intergect heresay or add things with out answering the specific question. i.e. like fox news.

Never said I argued with the surveryor- he, the surveyor - was very nice over the phone. The phone conversation was going over some numbers- some I couldnt read and wanted confirmation on some notation. The Surveyour pointed out the (2 pins) on the SE corner (per link in picture). All he said was make sure you choose the correct PIN one- which I did since I measured off 80 ft from the opposite corner PIN marker.
Now my specific question is and didnt formulate it at the time of call: Why is there a gap between 2 pins of 1.89 ft and explain why and what it got there- just asking for some math and science not opinion and hearsay.
* I going make attempt to go into the surveyors office with pictures wanted a surveyor from this group to supply some math skills to this issue or experience.
:laughing: pins (rebar) dont expand 1.89 ft NOT INCHES FEET! from florida heat and humidy - they get moved by humans i.e. verizon hitting them then putting them back with a guess but this was not the case according to plat and survey.

If this is a curve at 1.89 show me the tangent that hits the intersecting property line points.


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## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

Chris Johnson said:


> 1.89'
> 
> what is the issue here? $ 50.00 worth of sod? $1.00 worth of gas in the lawnmower to cut it every year? Are you selling? This falls under the 'know which fights to pick' and I haven't figured out whether this fight is worth anything.
> 
> I will say I see survey pins out by an inch here and there all the time, when laying out for a foundation we always use the one tightest to the centre of the property as our lots can be very small so set backs are a concern.


what the issue: none other than trying to see who owns that gap where it starts and ends who owns it Lot 19 or lot 20 and if i can put a Tree there or bush etc. if its lot 20.

The lawn is already moved from lot 20- that was encroaching. DONE not an issue. Lot 19 will have to put there own sod down or leave the dirt. I like to know how that 1.89 FEET not INCHES FEET will be handled and what I can or cant do with it. That corner could use a little shade can I plant something there how far and where exactly.

Possibly selling - preparing front curb appeal-and its also an insurance/mortgage/tax/liability/HOA reason.

Lastly, there is no fight. Sod is removed from lot 20 that was on lot 19.

Why as humans we interject violence and conflict with out logic. Look at all these responses with out the science and math asking-" asking does any one with surveyor skills and experience see (2) pins like the picture and how are they caluclated.
Im sorry I have not been clearer in my question.

*** I am more than willing to scan and upload the survey if that helps- yet know one has asked for that.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

@GC, your conduct is offensive.


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## professorGC (Jan 13, 2015)

thanks for your response.
on the survery that corner in question SE.

1.89' (feet) (P& M) plat and measure
5.45 degrees 03'12"E (P&M) Plat and measure

I see no C or T C standing for Chord, T for Tangent etc.... to suggest a curve or angle.

Trying to figure out the mystery why those two pins and this particular corner :in the SE corner would not be together. No they are marked with 5122 * I think the surveryors license or code the farthest one has an LB on it.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Why isn't all this DIY?


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Why isn't all this DIY?


That's right. His other thread is about his own house also.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I have some ideas on what has happened there with the second pin, but I have been asked to not post anything else in this thread.


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