# For you younger guys...the old days



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

It was not glamorous.

Start when the boss said to start & quit when he said so.

You were expected to roll out and be ready to work at starting time.

Usually got about 5 minutes to roll up.

If you were lucky you got a couple of 5 minute breaks.

Lunch was as long as the boss said it was.

You took a couple of frozen gallon jugs of 50/50 water/lemonade/iced tea to drink all day long.

The only things that happened on a tailgate was lunch & beer after work.

77's had no guards.

You walked top plates, beams 1 or 2 story.

If you were on the ground getting material you ran.

No safety protection of any kind.

If you got hurt you went home and put ice on it and swallowed aspirin & bourbon.

Serious injuries you got marginal care.

Virtually no such thing as stitches. 

Some hydrogen peroxide, butterflies & either duct or electricians tape.

Days off were usually Sundays.

No such thing as overtime.

Hurt feelings or thin skinned the crew usually sent you down the road.

Worked rain or shine, didn't care how hot it was or how wet it was.

No excuses for pretty much anything as you were expendable.

Not in any way shape or form knocking any of you younger guys.

Just letting you know how it was.

My time frame is early to late 70's.

Perhaps for some, time has not changed much.

But for most, working conditions have changed for the better.

Hopefully there are a bunch of younger skilled carpenters that will stick with it and continue to improve our profession.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I remember well...it was why I didn't stay in construction the first time around. 

I actually went up the path to the oil field....and was a machinist. And aside from differences in the work, the environment was the same.


----------



## Idothat (May 19, 2018)

And don’t forget , you got hollered at ,cussed like a dog, and treated like you didn’t matter at all . This is when you did good. If you didn’t do good , you got sent packing 

I think they liked you mad , you worked harder.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Wasn't much better for me coming into the trades. If at all. I'm the first residential contractor I have been around that takes out taxes and has workers comp and provides company truck, shirts tools ect... in my career other than my dad when I was in high school. He's always carried comp and taken out taxes, and he didn't make any money until this second business. Low threshold for business integrity in this line of work. Have to be in the upper echelon of buyers to make money doing it right against losers who do **** the wrong way

Personally other than safety I liked the trades better when I was a kid. Better class of tradesman overall. Less illegals. Less wusses. I'm only 35, went full time out of high school at 17, and I wouldn't want to hang out with most of the people I see in the trades now. Wasn't like that just 20 years ago. 

As far as walking plate ect... never came up, I stacked some roofs but luckily I have been better at layout and big picture stuff my whole career than moat people i have worked with. Always got paid a little better and never caught much **** from my bosses other than one or two onery lead guys I learned to berate from :laughing:. 

I've also had The Steel Square H.G. Siegele and Carpentry H.G. Siegele, Framing Walls, Floors, Roofs JLC, Rob Thallons Frame Construction on my night stand in high school. My geometry teacher was a trim carpenter who worked on trimming houses my dad framed in the summers, and I learned math (which has always been my best subject by far) in a far different way than most kids. 

You take the trade serious and it will take care of you. 

My grand dad who just passed was old school back to hand cutting ****, and then learning production building in the 1950s. He used to walk plates in elephant ear boots with a Marlboro red hanging out of his mouth like I walk on a sidewalk. Never take the smoke out while working, just hung there. 

He didn't know any of the business stuff we talk now, gross sales, completed construction, gross profit, overhead, net profit. He ran his books out of a Composition Book. He knew you had to sell it for more than you bought it for. Worked for him longer than most people in this thread have been alive. He knew the trades though.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Idothat said:


> And don’t forget , you got hollered at ,cussed like a dog, and treated like you didn’t matter at all . This is when you did good. If you didn’t do good , you got sent packing
> 
> I think they liked you mad , you worked harder.


I got a line from one old lead guy I still use when someone's messing up - Whataburger hiring, but unless you get in through the Make-A-Wish Foundation I doubt you could get a job there.:laughing::laughing::whistling:thumbup:

Good times


----------



## SPG (Mar 9, 2017)

Though a lot of what Griz said still applied, I guess I was lucky to have a little more enlightened boss on my first summer in the trades. The overall theme was that injuries cost time and money so safety was actually a money maker. No, we weren't wearing hard hats and high vis in the late 80's (though that color might have been fashionable then) but our saws had guards, you weren't allowed to do anything you didn't know how to do until you were shown the right way, and though we had to hustle we were reminded to pace ourselves and do it right instead of rushing and having to do it over. 
It's a lesson I try to teach the new kids.


----------



## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

SPG said:


> Though a lot of what Griz said still applied, I guess I was lucky to have a little more enlightened boss on my first summer in the trades. The overall theme was that injuries cost time and money so safety was actually a money maker. No, we weren't wearing hard hats and high vis in the late 80's (though that color might have been fashionable then) but our saws had guards, you weren't allowed to do anything you didn't know how to do until you were shown the right way, and though we had to hustle we were reminded to pace ourselves and do it right instead of rushing and having to do it over.
> It's a lesson I try to teach the new kids.


I got this education as well.

Work safely and efficiently, but Jesus, don't whine about putting on a harness to go up on a damn roof for two seconds. Just get that **** done. hah


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

SPG said:


> Though a lot of what Griz said still applied, I guess I was lucky to have a little more enlightened boss on my first summer in the trades. The overall theme was that injuries cost time and money so safety was actually a money maker. No, we weren't wearing hard hats and high vis in the late 80's (though that color might have been fashionable then) but our saws had guards, you weren't allowed to do anything you didn't know how to do until you were shown the right way, and though we had to hustle we were reminded to pace ourselves and do it right instead of rushing and having to do it over.
> It's a lesson I try to teach the new kids.


I can't remember one discussion of safety other than calling guys who were scared pussies in residential :laughing: "Go hide under the bed and watch if your scared, MF" I've said that more than I care to remember. 

Osha had no presence out here back then and I guess it showed. 

When I was a kid my dad wouldn't let me cut without a guard so I have always used a guard, how im used to it, only time I pinned it back much was cutting tails or something in place. 

Commercial was the first time I ever had a tool box talk, mostly did state projects and as a lead carpenter and super i was also responsible for saftey so i learned to think different. 

Now I have a safety compliance company we order everything from and keep **** up to date.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Looking back, my dad is probably the only guy I've ever worked around that did not have that cowboy mentality that thought you were soft if you we're overly safe. LOL. Sounds retarded now looking back but that's just how it is. I still think it in my head sometimes when I see somebody be overly cautious. It doesn't stay long and I don't say it, but it's still there. LOL

My dad never pushed people on speed, he was just very efficient and that made his crew pretty quick. But I never saw him hollering at people like a lot of these dumbasses to move faster. It is generally a leadership problem not a crew problem.

 If a guy was just slow natured he just run him off. He would also tell people to pick stuff up off the ground and cut it on saw horses and stuff like that. He took safety pretty serious I guess, just not the way it is now. We didn't sit around and talk about it, you just didn't tell people to do stupid stuff LOL


----------



## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Was just telling my kid a few months ago how lucky he is now you got nail guns and everything else nowadays, we had to carry 50LB 10P nails for framing, nail sheeting, and subfloor everything by hand, doing a house of trim nailing and setting every nail with nail-set, steel cut nails driven by hand for pressure treated plates, etc. I still have my Yankee screwdriver I used to screw kitchen cabinets. :thumbsup:
Today with guns they shoot 100 nails and they miss 75 of them :laughing:


----------



## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I didn't grow up in that type of construction environment.

But I did grow up dirt ass f&^ing poor. 

When I started in construction, it was as a cleanup kid. I was 14. It was my 4th job for the week. :blink:

When I was finally able to afford a couple hundred in tools, to actually get into construction, I went to a Sears and bought the bare necessities to join the IBEW. Got laughed at for my tools.

But I worked my ass off, never stood around, was never late to the job. 

And when I wasn't working, I was studying. I went home and read everything I could find. As I made more money, I bought every Professional Textbook I could find, for every trade. I've learned as much on my own, as I've learned on the job.

I was fortunate to get on with a Union outfit. We did nothing but Industrial, and safety was taken very seriously. But we didn't F&^k around, either. You showed up 10 minutes early, took no more than your allotted time for breaks, worked your ass off, and went home at days end.

There was no sitting around drinking with the boys after work. There was certainly no drinking, drugs, or hangovers on the job. :no:

I don't walk walls. Never have, never will. But I'll stand toe-to-toe with any builder out there. There are faster, or more skilled, in certain areas, but I'll back down to no one.

I also don't know many builders who also know electrical, plumbing, tile, concrete, equipment operating, can drive a truck, or have the ability to restart your heart if you code on the job site. 

Only 2 things I won't do. I will not endanger my life so the owner can make a few more bucks. And I will not be yelled at. 

If someone raises their voice at me, they get the courtesy of a warning. Once. But I didn't give my bosses reason to yell at me, either.

I would have liked to have worked in the boom days. But I was born too late for that. But I don't think I'm any less of a builder, because I didn't.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I also don't know many builders who also know electrical, plumbing, tile, concrete, equipment operating, can drive a truck, or have the ability to restart your heart if you code on the job site. :eek


I pretty well have all that covered but the last one. If you can guarantee that, you're my hero. :notworthy


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

griz said:


> It was not glamorous.
> 
> Start when the boss said to start & quit when he said so.
> 
> ...




My Gawd! I remember most of that stuff! Early 80's. 


Mike.
_______________


----------



## rescraft (Nov 28, 2007)

Anybody remember "gas 'n wax" ?


----------



## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

As Griz said.

Made me remember. We had to walk the walls. One day, while the wall was lying on the sub-floor, I said, "Why don't we lay out the rafters now?" Got some remark that was yelled.
Then, then next house the boss told us to lay out the rafters before we stood the wall up. It was his idea then.


----------



## cdkyle (Jul 12, 2009)

griz said:


> It was not glamorous.
> 
> Start when the boss said to start & quit when he said so.
> 
> ...


Griz,
I remember those days, although I did not frame. The young kids of today, or at least the American ones, are not going to benefit from a lesson like this. They are not going to be doing this kind of work anyways. The young ones today are looking for a ride-along, not a job that requires hard wok. 
The only ones doing this kind of work are latinos. Maybe you should re-post this in espanol.
Thanks for the memories though.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

griz said:


> It was not glamorous.
> 
> Start when the boss said to start & quit when he said so.
> 
> ...


Big difference is you are a baby boomer, the supply of labour was high and the demand was low. You slack on any job back then and you were cut, next kid in line takes your space.

Different story now, we're short on labour and demand is high...you gotta be a real fvck up to get canned.


----------



## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

rescraft said:


> Anybody remember "gas 'n wax" ?


???


----------



## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

At the age of 11 I was hauling shingles up a 40 foot ladder, the bundle weighed 80 pounds so I had to split it in half, I think I was 80 pounds soaking wet....At 15 I started framing houses in Kissimmee Florida across from the gator land Park zoo, the houses were two and three bedroom single floor And walking the plate was mandatory
(Kid you’re not going to get hurt fallen 8 feet) boy do I remember those days !

I’ve done just about every trade there is, And if you can’t take a joke you shouldn’t be in construction....Snowflakes melt in a fast environment!


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

90lb roll roofing was memorable. 2 hands on the roll sitting on your shoulder, none for the ladder. Get the ladder angle right, and it's just like walking up stairs.


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Calidecks said:


> As a young laborer (which I had to be first) they told me to dig a ditch and the only thing I said was how wide and how deep. When I got to wear bags, it was a treat and had to be earned.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


labor jobs d not always get done by the low ranking guys...

as a GC & a Super, i have dug ditches, packed lumber, moved material and swept more floors than i care to remember....

rhip, is not always so...:laughing:


----------



## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Calidecks said:


> As a young laborer (which I had to be first) they told me to dig a ditch and the only thing I said was how wide and how deep. When I got to wear bags, it was a treat and had to be earned.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> _______________


I got in teased as a young apprentice for constantly digging more ditch than I needed to.  :blink: :laughing:


----------



## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

griz said:


> labor jobs d not always get done by the low ranking guys...
> 
> as a GC & a Super, i have dug ditches, packed lumber, moved material and swept more floors than i care to remember....
> 
> rhip, is not always so...:laughing:


I often do this work because it's good for morale, doesn't significantly take my attention from the 40 phone calls I get a day, and gets me some exercise.


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

onmywayup said:


> But what you almost never see is anyone stop and say "hey, I would have cut my f'in finger off today if that Skil saw didn't have a guard on it." I agree wholeheartedly that the lawyers and the policy wonks have gone way over board in this country, and that certain safety measures arguably create more risk than they mitigate. But as a general rule, the dude that gets killed because he refuses to wear a seat-belt does NOT live to get online and ***** about seat belts. Only the guys who wore them and survived (or who didn't end up needing them in the end) get the luxury of doing that. Some of this stuff is a good idea, and the "way it used to be" is not automatically always better.


Never said the way it was was better, was trying to infer one of the biggest issues that there is a difference with the millennial generation. One that is unlike the generation to generation differences of the past that you speak of. That difference is an attitude that is unwilling to face situations where they need to be humble to something outside of themselves-thinking of who they are. It's not straight across the board difference, but there is much more of that than there used to be. 

Way to many "heros" and mommas boys and not enough standard men doing what normal healthy men should do and naturally like to do. Stuff like you want soft and silky hands, wear gloves, but don't whine about it. Not realizing that toughening the hands up isn't a matter of being "manly" or some kind of systemic male domination of other males. It's a practical matter of easing much of the discomfort that comes from using your hands everyday. And being out in the colder weather soft and silky hands is a great disadvantage to having warm hands, even with gloves. But don't try telling a lot of millennial's that or a whole slew of similar things. And those old timey ways of some hardassery and or teasing actually helped pull one's head out of ones arse and realize the wisdom being passed on. Today's world ... it's workplace harassment. Significant parts of the culture have changed in ways that allow those like the millennials to hold ideas that are counter productive to reality-the reality of being a tradesmen. That is unique to these generations and as more of the progressive-post modernist ideologies are absorbed into the culture, the worse that will get. That has never really happened in the history of the US/north America. 

:whistling Well thats getting wtf out there, so probably best to stop.


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

griz said:


> flame away but few guys now days could cut it back then....


Does this also mean you guys wouldn't have been able to cut it in the early 1900s when those guys were building houses with nothing but hand tools?


----------



## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

Texas Wax said:


> One that is unlike the generation to generation differences of the past that you speak of.


Yes, the difference in the millennial generation is unlike any of the generations before it or after it.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

EricBrancard said:


> Does this also mean you guys wouldn't have been able to cut it in the early 1900s when those guys were building houses with nothing but hand tools?


Yes I could have done it because I did it because I didn't have a alternative.


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

griz said:


> labor jobs d not always get done by the low ranking guys...
> 
> as a GC & a Super, i have dug ditches, packed lumber, moved material and swept more floors than i care to remember....
> 
> rhip, is not always so...:laughing:



I started with a builder who worked right along with us, and that was in the day that we dug the footings by hand, poured our own concrete, and basically did everything on site. Only things we didn't touch were bricks and electric. 

Those were the days. 

We even dug a septic tank and built a form box, poured the concrete, and dug the line from the house. Used a trencher to do the laterals...or it would be a better story. :laughing:


----------



## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

Roofing and siding was a real pleasure.

Pitch forks to tear it up. Then pull the nails and clean bread crumbs up. Hump up the material and hand nail. Where was all of that day labor then 

Aluminum siding often used little individual outside corners. The material was unforgiving.

Slow ball breaking work.


----------



## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Texas Wax said:


> Not realizing that toughening the hands up isn't a matter of being "manly" or some kind of systemic male domination of other males. It's a practical matter of easing much of the discomfort that comes from using your hands everyday.


You just hit upon a seldom-mentioned and unexpected (for me, at least) aspect of living the tough life. When I got into construction and my hands became rough and callused, I was no longer permitted to touch my wife in certain ways.

Now that's tough times. :sad:


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

griz said:


> labor jobs d not always get done by the low ranking guys...
> 
> as a GC & a Super, i have dug ditches, packed lumber, moved material and swept more floors than i care to remember....
> 
> rhip, is not always so...:laughing:


There are still days where someone will walk right past me looking for the guy who is running the crew.

I wear it as a badge of honor.


----------



## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Stunt Carpenter said:


> I totally see where onmywayup is coming from being one of the younger generation on here (30).
> 
> I think what bugs me about some of the comments about our generation is that I feel lumped in with the rest of the generation. Where all of us younger guys on here are the exception to the rule when it comes to millennials.


This post kinda says it all...

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> You just hit upon a seldom-mentioned and unexpected (for me, at least) aspect of living the tough life. When I got into construction and my hands became rough and callused, I was no longer permitted to touch my wife in certain ways.
> 
> Now that's tough times. :sad:


My hands can be so dry and rough I leave a white film on things I touch and I can't touch myself in certain ways.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I think a lot of it was who we were trained by. I was trained by my father (how to work) who's family were poor dirt farmers during the depression. He fought on Iwo jima at the age of 17. (The greatest generation) He was extremely hard on me when I worked for his company as a very young man. He also taught me what it meant to be a man. His no nonsense rough approach with me, has served me well in this business.


----------



## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

avenge said:


> My hands can be so dry and rough I leave a white film on things I touch and I can't touch myself in certain ways.


I'm now framing and building with CFS (metal) studs and parts so gloves is a part of it now. The softer hands are a bonus :thumbsup:


----------



## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> You just hit upon a seldom-mentioned and unexpected (for me, at least) aspect of living the tough life. When I got into construction and my hands became rough and callused, I was no longer permitted to touch my wife in certain ways.
> 
> Now that's tough times. :sad:


:whistling Or maybe use gloves then?


----------



## NJ Contractor (Nov 12, 2016)

Personally, I like hearing these stories. I came up through the electrical trade in the early 1990's and while it was not as rough as some had it, it was no walk in the park. 

As a GC, I enjoy hearing the lunch time stories from old-timer employees about house framing in the 1950's and having to carry as many 2x4's on your shoulders that your arm length could handle, up to the 2nd floor with no ladders!

I've yet to hire a millennial that lasted more than a week or 2 with my crew of 45+ year olds...


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

NJ Contractor said:


> Personally, I like hearing these stories. I came up through the electrical trade in the early 1990's and while it was not as rough as some had it, it was no walk in the park.
> 
> As a GC, I enjoy hearing the lunch time stories from old-timer employees about house framing in the 1950's and having to carry as many 2x4's on your shoulders that your arm length could handle, up to the 2nd floor with no ladders!
> 
> I've yet to hire a millennial that lasted more than a week or 2 with my crew of 45+ year olds...


My old boss claimed that he once carried 40 2x4 precuts. Never saw any indication of him doing it when we were around.

My biggest claim is carrying 4 sheets of 3/4 plywood about 20 years ago. I weighed about 150 pounds at the time. I can still feel the burn from that one.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

NJ Contractor said:


> Personally, I like hearing these stories. I came up through the electrical trade in the early 1990's and while it was not as rough as some had it, it was no walk in the park.
> 
> As a GC, I enjoy hearing the lunch time stories from old-timer employees about house framing in the 1950's and having to carry as many 2x4's on your shoulders that your arm length could handle, up to the 2nd floor with no ladders!
> 
> I've yet to hire a millennial that lasted more than a week or 2 with my crew of 45+ year olds...


My best employees are over 45 for sure other than one 25 year old and a 29 year old 

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The way to carry multiple sheets is behind your back leaned over with a hand on each side. 


Mike.
_______________


----------

