# Price check on new service 100a 200a



## diyerforever (May 9, 2006)

I am just curious how much a standard service install is going for in different parts of the country. When I say standard I am talking about just a ranch house with ALUM. SE cable. I haven't done a service since before wire prices went through the roof. Here in SW Pennsylvania I use to charge for a 100A 24circuit $900 and 200A 42circuit $1400. That is from the weather head down including the meter socket and 2 grd rods. I am sure the prices are different by know so please respond.

Thanks,
Sparky by trade diyerforever...


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Yup, that was about right here two or so years ago.
We are in the $1k and up range for 100 amps, and $15k and up for 200 amps these days. 
I've had a rash of meter/main, main lug services I've had to do the past few months. They were in the $2250-$2500 range. The SER was a killer.

AL SE cable has not skyrocketed...yet, but it has gone up considerably. AL is all I can get in my area for SE cable so CU is not even an option, unless I want to order a 500 or 1k' spool. (yeah right).


----------



## ATS (Jun 28, 2005)

A little less here in the Buffalo region of NY. If I bid a 150 a service at $900, I lose the job to others who bid less than $800. Prices are low here and I also have to compete with Electrical Inspectors who own electrical contracting businesses, no joke. One of my customers got an estimate a while back for the service I recently completed from the inspector who tried to use his title as "the inspector" as a sales tactic, luckily she thought this was unfair and refused to go with him. Sorry about the hi-jacking, guess I got off track. A question I would ask is how much time is figured for a typical service change? Lately I've been getting my butt kicked on services in finished basements and finished walls in other rooms the service may be in. I quote for it, but they can be real tough to figure. I haven't sold any service upgrade ever for over a grand out where I live.


----------



## JAL (May 3, 2006)

That seems a bit low for where I am . The last one I did 3 months ago was a 200 amp and it was $1,600. My busy season is just starting with summer homes/camps and the price will probbly be going up due to overhead and material costs. I need to look at this before everybody starts calling.


----------



## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

200A overhead or underground in my area, you are talkin' 2K+ for a new service. Upgrades are more costly because of the additional time.

400A usually 3K+


----------



## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

A service upgrade to 100 amperes requires additional hight availability outdoors, approval of the new service point, and usually reconnecting back 12 circuits = 12 hours + $640.00 for mat and permit. Then you have to wait around for hours for the inspector and then for the power 
co. All = $1,600.00 + taxes. ( and rising due to copper increases every day).

(Advice to starters on their own business.
When I work out in the field once every 3 years with an union contractor - other electricians say - `oh I can do a 100a service in 3 hours`! This is what happens when an electrician starts out on their own - no clue about how long things take to get done. When I worked out in the field I used to make notes of how long any type of work took to be completed.)


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

That's funny. I CAN do a 100 amp service in 3 hours, albeit with few circuits and an easy riser. 

I have to ask: 12 circuits = 12 hours??? Are you serious?

I do the "average" 100 amp service in about 4-6 hours. 200a in 6-8 hours. By myself! 
And NO, I am not "just starting out". I DO know how long things take.

Also, why do you say an upgrade required additional height? This must be a local requirement. 
If the existing drop has adequate ground clearance it just goes back at the same height.


----------



## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

100a is $1100, 200a is $1300 in CT.


----------



## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

You guys have to have it inpected before the poco reconnects?

Sounds inconvienient. We recon when we are done, then we go home. Mr. Inspector comes later.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

fridaymean said:


> We recon when we are done, then we go home. Mr. Inspector comes later.


That's how I do a typical 1-family OH service.


----------



## RobertWilber (Mar 5, 2006)

13 for 100, 14 if it needs a unistrut frame plus permit
23 to 27 for 200 plus permit


----------



## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

Details like identifying all 24 circuits could take 2 hrs by oneself - up and down stairs etc. - Or do like most - lights and plugs, lights and plugs, lights and plugs....
So 3 hrs of work is equal to what $900.00?
How long waiting to apply for a permit ( 2hrs in here)
Waiting for the inspector 1 - 2 hrs -waiting for reconnection crew 2 hrs, no service is reconnected by the power co. unless an inspector calls it in with approval after meggering it.
I had the opportunuty of watching one 3 hrs claimer (for a 100a10 cct) it took him 16 and had to go back to id the ccts properly after the owner complained.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Actually I would write "Lights & _Receptacles_".
I remark a panel as it was. If it is not labeled I label what I can and go. If they want a fully labeled panel I DO charge more.

You sure do a lot of standing around and getting paid for it. I thought before they changed the rules to let us make taps that our system was bad, but yours is pathetic!

2 hrs to _APPLY_ for a permit??? I make a call, someone answers, and within 3 minutes I have an application number. 
The only annoying part is calling the inspector himself during his one hour calling window in the morning. Getting through can take many tries.



Robert, are you really getting $2500 for a 200a service in Philly?? Holy crap! :w00t:


----------



## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

New service? I thought this was upgrade. Anyway. we were charging about 2900 for a 200A underground.


----------



## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

aren't panel shedules code? I'm not sure, maybe I've been gettin hosed.


----------



## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

A 3 hrs service? - new 100a undergorung maybe. There is no cables to connect to the panel yet etc.
I was talking about a service upgrade. A lot of modification of the existing including extending some cables which do not reach the new panel or it`s neutral bar or the new panel has to be at the other corner of the basement etc. and all vables have to be extended + all other waiting - yes I get paid for all that. 
The time starts when you leave home -minus breaks and lunch time - then the time you arrive home = how many hrs? It takes some skill to know how long something takes to get done. Working with the tools could be only half or less of the time it takes. It maybe is all measured
in what type of vehicle you one drives - an old van? Does one make at least $60,000.00 clear income a year? One should. I do - yet ` I am so slow?


----------



## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

Speedy Petey said:


> Actually I would write "Lights & _Receptacles_".
> I remark a panel as it was. If it is not labeled I label what I can and go. If they want a fully labeled panel I DO charge more.
> 
> You sure do a lot of standing around and getting paid for it. I thought before they changed the rules to let us make taps that our system was bad, but yours is pathetic!
> ...


-----------------------------------------------------

That should be the price of a 200a upgrade - with a small variable from region to rigion,


----------



## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

200A underground = 2.5 hrs
400A underground = 2.75 hrs


----------



## RobertWilber (Mar 5, 2006)

*really, really*

post was too short


----------



## mdcorreia (May 21, 2006)

Speedy Petey said:


> That's funny. I CAN do a 100 amp service in 3 hours, albeit with few circuits and an easy riser.
> 
> I have to ask: 12 circuits = 12 hours??? Are you serious?
> 
> ...


I have seen others and do it myself; 4 hrs to install the conduit and meter socket and pull the wires including drilling a hole in the concrete,
5 hrs to reconnect 12 cct including a new gr wire, id all circuits. The remaining time has to do with set up, buy materials, waiting for reconnection etc. I account for everything. including the time it takes to remove the old service conduit.


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

SoCal,
150A = $ 1400
200A = $ 2500

Other electricians get pissed if one does it for less, as it hurts everyone else....and so do I.

I did one for 2700 last week, however this included grounding rods and a 45 ft run of 4 awe to the nearest cold water pipe.
This included permit (which takes 10 minutes to get around here) and all materials.

poco came and cut me off, came back later in the day, vut me back in, and they started their weekend (end of Friday) inspector never showed...I waited 2 hours, powered the house up, and left. I know, it's a no no, but I wasn't about leave them without pwr for 3 days. Inspector came Monday, apoligized and signed me off.
Everyone's happy!!


See attached pic
I also did the stuccoo, and I did the tankless a few months back!:thumbsup:


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Hell, I'd get at least $2700 for all that work. IMO while that may be a typical Ca service, it is not typical to most of the rest of the country. 

You guys have those stupid outdoor panels, although I like the combination ones like the one you used there. If I need an outside disconnect I always use a meter/main enclosure as opposed to separate boxes.

Why did you have to recess that whole thing in the wall?


----------



## ATS (Jun 28, 2005)

Just finished a 200 amp all copper service upgrade in sch. 80 PVC. $1,400 total with inspection. Took me a day and a half and it kicked my butt. But it looks great, customers happy and I feel I made good money considering the economy in my area (Buffalo, NY). I have another upgrade scheduled this week, 150 amp, unfinished basement, I got a little over $800 for it. I always label every circuit and give the house a general electrical safety check when I'm done. Personally, I don't do 100 amp upgrades, unless it's a mobile home. I guess I don't see the point as most 100 amp panels I see out there are filled to the max and then some with the 20 available spaces.


----------



## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

We've done them in CA recessed if the customer is willing to do the plaster repair, or we will set the new can right on top of the gutted old can if they don't want to do stucco repairs.

I miss those old outside panels, we rarley see them in Salt Lake.


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

"Why did you have to recess that whole thing in the wall?"

well, I thought about changing it to surface mount, however it would have been more trouble than it was worth. This one took me 1.5 hrs to install once the old one was out. I spent more time grounding than I did wiring up this unit. The stuccoo was the fence pusher. That was the closer. And to be honest, I wanted the experience in doing that kind of repair. So if I spend a few more hours on the site...so be it. I have a better understanding of stuccoo and can add one more thing to the "sure I can" list!


"or we will set the new can right on top of the gutted old can if they don't want to do stucco repairs"

As for fitting a new service panel inside the old one.....never heard of that. Not too sure I would want to either. 

OR, did you mean installing the new service panel above the old one?
If so, what about the max. 6'3" height of the meter center?


----------



## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

I thought it was 6' to the top switch? Which with the new can you used would cover the old can beautifully. 2 2" chase nipples in the back of the can, works great, fast, and looks good.

What was that second bond to in the water pipe picture? And why is the GEC cut between the 2 pipes?


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

Sparky Joe said:


> I thought it was 6' to the top switch?


6' to the top of what switch? 
6'7" is the max height of any circuit breaker handle.





Sparky Joe said:


> 2 2" chase nipples in the back of the can, works great, fast, and looks good.


Are you saying you mount a new panel on top of an old one? I assume leaving the cover off the old one?
You leave the circuits in the old one and just splice?
If this is so it sounds like a complete hack job. I don't like the sound of that at all. :no:


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

"I thought it was 6' to the top switch? "
Do you mean the service disconnect?
My local code says 6'3" to the center of the meter. At lease that is what Edison wants. I did read in the NEC that it was 6', so that is actually where it is at. However Edison says I can go another 3" higher. Better safe than sorry.

"Which with the new can you used would cover the old can beautifully. 2 2" chase nipples in the back of the can, works great, fast, and looks good."

I"m hoping I am just mis-understanding what you are describing.......
Typically on a service upgrade, the new panel will be bigger. Not always, but in my experience they have always been bigger. More current available...more branch circuits. More branch circuits, more breakers...more space!!

"What was that second bond to in the water pipe picture?"
The armored line I ran is 4awe Bare copper, that runs to the new panel.
There was another 6awe line ran with the original house wiring, however I could not find where it connected to. AND I do not want to risk my install, from someone elses work. I'm kiond of anel like that. Inspectors around here are rather particular about the grounding/bonding, and understandably so, as there are a lot of guys that do not do it complete and correct.

"And why is the GEC cut between the 2 pipes?"
Thank You for noticing!! That is a jumper from the cold copper line that went to the street, to the "softened" cold water pipe. A water softner has plastic parts...flexable connectors with rubber orings at their respective points of connection. AND should our friendly homeowner choose to replace/repair his softner, the ENTIRE cold water piping throughout the home is no longer grounded.....this can pose a dangerous situation should there be a surge, or lightning strike, because of the high impedence (high ohm load) that the faussets are, which actually will become the bond....anyway, it will take me too long to explain, I'm sure someone can do it simpler. Point is, it's a no no. This is actually code, but most guys just don't care to take the extra 5 minutes or the additional $9 to do it right.
My inspector got a smile when he saw that!!
FWIW, it is not necessary to jump the cold water to the hot water pipes. At lease that is what I was told by an old timmer...couldn't find that refference in the Bible!

I am still curious to know exactly how/what you are doing with this direct drop in box......."Explain it to me as if I were a 2 yr. old" (anyone know the movie??):thumbup:


----------



## Sparky Joe (Apr 29, 2006)

I don't know why it was assumed that splices would be burried, or that there would be any splices at all, where do you make your splices when changing a service, or do you need to splice anything??? give me a break

Sorry, I just heard 6 feet to top switch, perhaps I should be putting it out of reach of some 4'9" grandma, such as my own.

I didn't know we were back to the "assuming the worst" or "argument" stage of our relationship again Pete, whatever happened to the common respect and speaking constructively?


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

It was just a question/comment. From the way you describe, that is how I interpreted it.

Is that the setup though?


No, I generally do not have to splice much during a service change. 
And the height is both a code thing and a design build thing. You need it so that any adult can reach a breaker from the ground. Strangely there is no minimum height.

Meters are typically at eye level.


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

"Strangely there is no minimum height.

Meters are typically at eye level."

Minimum height is 4 ft.


----------



## Speedy Petey (Sep 30, 2003)

James, you took that out of context. I was talking about a breaker. That's why the meter comment was started in a new paragraph and not right after the minimum height comment. 

Meter heights are determined by the POCO, not the NEC.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

Speedy Petey said:


> Meter heights are determined by the POCO, not the NEC.


Right, that's what they're missing. 6'7" max for a breaker. The NEC has no minimum mounting heights for meter cans, but the POCO sure does. "Eye level" is my rule of thumb, making them centered at about 5'. Every POCO I work under has it's own min and max heights, with 4' generally being the min and 6-1/2' generally being the max. There's one POCO in my area that has no min height, so I've seen some of their meters mounted about a 1' above the ground on a post for pedestal type metering. Stupid idea, whatever screwball electrician actually installed it that way. How'd you like to whack an unfused meter can with a riding lawn mower? :thumbsup:


----------



## brian11973 (Apr 13, 2006)

Here in northern Ohio, I once worked for a cheap  . His son got us putting the meters as low as possiable, save wire. One day, an inspector said, No way, too low, will get buried in the snow drifts.:laughing: 

6'7'--- any breaker

eye level-------meter


----------



## brian11973 (Apr 13, 2006)

1 year ago-------$1200.00 100 A service change out. All copper w/ fished in 20' ground to water line.

9 months ago-----$1400.00 100A overhead change out--all copper with grounding w/ misc fix romex dryer / washer etc. Push ground through joists.

5 months ago -----$2800.00 labor only. New 400 A on a 200 A existing. The original panel was tied as sub. Move meter. Just refeed & cut the ground to neutral connection. New copper grounding. AL feeders from Meter / main/ with all underground ( main & feeders) & j-box with sub feed cable.

Will not touch new 400A for less than $4000 w/ material. No 
underground.

Seriously thinking of " TIME & MATERIAL". Give a ballpark number, no garranties.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

brian11973 said:


> Seriously thinking of " TIME & MATERIAL". Give a ballpark number, no garranties.


Now you're on the right track! Remember that an estimate is not a firm price. In my world, estimate means ballpark. You should be able to get darned close for most service upgrades, but with what wire and conduit is doing price wise lately, all bets are off.


----------



## fridaymean (Feb 17, 2006)

Hey Brian, why won't you do 400A underground services?

Just asking because around me, I think you can only do 400A undergound, no overhead.


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

"but with what wire and conduit is doing price wise lately, all bets are off."

I bid a rewire of a detached garage about a month and a half ago, and it was a fair price. Customer called me to go ahead and do it, and just in that time difference the materials cost went up 150 bucks.....so depressing. I think the customer had another guy bid it recently and of course mine was probably 10 cents cheaper so I got the call. I have formally switched to time and materials, with a ball park of hours. However I DO NOT talk to customers about the rising cost of copper...ect... sounds like just making excuses for over charging. I used to over charge on materials for bids, and after the job was complete, if there was useable left overs, I would give back the difference....I have learned customers don't really care. They are grumpy about having to shell out big bucks in the first place. And at the same time, this is a business, which means I need to make my profit goals every month. Being tied to an estimate with little room for increases causes losses. So with a padding on materials, those little unexpected issues can get absorbed without affecting my margins. If you take into account all the little $10 here and $20 there on jobs and add that up in a months time or in a year, that adds up. Like the job that I pictured above. The 4 awe solid bare went up 45 cents a foot... in a week, times 50 feet = 22.50 it all adds up and I got hungary mouths to feed, and one expensive wife


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

JamesNLA said:


> Being tied to an estimate with little room for increases causes losses.


That statement right there troubles me. I believe that you're thinking wrong.

An "estimate" is just that. An estimation of what you honestly believe the work will cost. You are not tied to this price, although you should strive to be within 10% or so. Stop thinking that you are somehow tied to your estimations and you will profit. Review your estimate forms to make sure they don't contain language that somehow unwillingly ties you to this price. 

I see so many guys, in all trades, beating themselves up trying to itemize every item that will get used on a job to provide an estimate that is to the penny. Not only does this take up WAY TOO MUCH of your time, but it is unnecessary. Shoot a pretty close price, and that's all. Explain this to the customer if need be. 

Hard, fixed prices are called quotes or bids. Those you need to honor. Estimates are estimations. Not a contract. Just your best pricing effort. 

There's way too much work out there just for the asking to give penny accurate (or even dollar accurate) bids on every potential job.


----------



## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

JamesNLA and one expensive wife:)[/quote said:


> Just noticed that.... me too. Her and I agreed a long time ago that for every dollar I spent on tools, she could spend one on jewelry.
> 
> Care to guess what she bought when I bought the computerized cam track bender?
> 
> I pass this along so you don't make the same mistake I did. :jester:


----------



## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

AAAHHHHHH...I just soiled myself:








OK, I want it. 

So that got me thinking hmmmm, 4 ct. diamond solitaires with platinum settings???:thumbup: 

And ahh yeah, we don't have that agreement. My wife has foot wear issues. 
She is just as obnoxious about kitchen gadgets as I am about tools....women.....


----------



## brian11973 (Apr 13, 2006)

" mdshunk" you speak the truth so well.

When I said $4000 for a 400A service, no underground, I meant:

400A CH panel $1800

320A(?) meter socket $500

Wire (meter to panel) $200

Conduit / misc $200

labor/ profit $1300

Underground would be extra on top of this. Price / foot. Basically Time & material. How much $$ for wire, how much time to install.

I am still working on alot of numbers. Been self employed for 2 1/2 years now. Been without ANY partners for less than a year. The last number I heard for a 200 A service was $650(1 year ago). To me, this is throwing in the service nearly at cost. Make the money on the wiring?


----------



## RobertWilber (Mar 5, 2006)

*test of value*

If it don't pay, I won't play
I have been doing this for 35 years, much of it for myself.
There is always some predatory parasite who wants YOU to make THEM wealthy by donating YOUR hard earned knowledge and skills to THEIR retirement fund.
Been there, done that. NO THANKS!
Ever notice, these guys don't come knocking on the door telling YOU how to make more money with what THEY know...


----------



## brian11973 (Apr 13, 2006)

Robert, what would you do, if the dirty , rotten, rat ba$$$$d, was a "friend", that you went to Vocational school, was a former GC business partner with for 6 years? I might just wire this house ( @ $40 / hr, he buys material ), then tell him to drop died! The city for his current job ( a referral from one of "our" former clients), requires a state license for resi. He is giving me the " I am just starting out" crap! SO AM I! I have the state license, not him! The insurance, license, etc,etc,etc!


----------



## RobertWilber (Mar 5, 2006)

*old friends die hard*

you might always choose to be generous and offer him a small finders fee [overlook the source] and hire HIM to wire the house as a consideration [he can't legally contract to do the work with the owner].
As you observed, YOU are the responsible party ...


----------

