# New contractor looking for info



## Joshua321 (May 11, 2015)

Hello

This is my first post on the CT forums. I’ve been reading posts for months and it’s been an amazing resource.

I thought I’d tell you a little bit about myself and my plan to get started.

I currently work as an analyst in the IT industry and would really like to make a change. I’m not a carpenter but I have completely renovated my own home (framing, windows, doors, trim etc.). I’ve also dealt with a number of contractors.

High level overview of my plan:

I’d like to start a small residential window and door replacement company with a focus on customer service and offering high quality products and workmanship at a reasonable cost. My plan is to purchase a cube van and tools and spend almost all of my time on the marketing and business side. I’d market aggressively market with radio ads, vehicle graphics, door knockers, website and SEO and any other venue that I have time to explore. I would also handle all aspects of the business from sales to operations and coordination but I would have installers doing the work (casual employees or subs?). I envision having the truck stocked with all materials/tools and on-site ready for my crew to handle the installation. 

The niche I see is between the small craigslist guys that offer cheap rates and the large companies that have high overhead and are significantly more expensive.

I am aware it will take time to build business and close sales so I don’t plan on full time employees out of the gate but rather piecework employees or subcontractors. This is actually an area I’d like insight into. 

Below are some questions that I have:

Should I use casual employees or subs? What are the benefits or downsides of either?
Any workers comp/insurance implications on whether I use casual employees or subs?
What is the best way to find employees and subs?
My goal is to keep my focus as narrow as possible to start out (residential window/door replacement) – would I need to offer siding? Would it make sense?
Do you see any fundamental flaws in my plan?
Any information on tools? Would scaffolding be required (I assume it would be if I was to offer siding)?
Any other tips?


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

One issue I see is your margin. If you are having employees or subs doing 100% of the work, most of your gross is going straight into their pockets. Then you have to cover your own overhead, advertising (expensive according to your plan), and other expenses. My guess is what's left over isn't going to be enough for you to make a living unless you're doing _huge_ volume. Especially if your selling point is that your price is lower than the large companies.

GC's who use 100% subs on their jobs almost always are coordinating multiple subs per job. Typically, these jobs are much larger than a window install. Because of the complexities involved in this, they can justify only doing, "the business side" and have a markup that lets them earn a living. I'm not sure you can do the same with your proposed idea.


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## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

I'd recommend you get some hands on experience doing these installs before you start selling them. There is a lot more that goes into Windows and siding than you might think. Being able to sell that to your client, and not missing anything crucial in your estimates only comes from lots of real life experience.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

Just started building a budget. Figure out what your expected cost of doing business is. Then figure out what kind of volume and overhead you need to get you there. It sounds like you need to be doing .5-1 mil out of the gate. That't a lot to sell for a first year business. 

It will be harder than you think to get good guys to do the installs. It takes a lot of training. Having people work inside of someones home isn't easy. You will have guys in every room in peoples home. There is a lot that can go wrong.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Another Homeowner wants to be a contractor...:laughing: Got to love people who put a few windows into theirs own house, think thats all there is to it.

If you want to start installing windows and siding, go and work for someone doing that and get on hands experience, learn the tricks of the trade and everything that is involved. Without that you will never survive and if you start a huge marketing campaign, you will get more work than you can handle and instead of quality, you will start hacking things up, not making good on contracts, etc... Seen that happen plenty of times, not to mention when contractors you hire catch a whiff that you pencil neck and don't know any better, they will take you for everything you got and before you know you be on Craigslist bidding against low bidders to make payments on your box truck.

Stick to IT or quit and go learn the trade all ins and outs only then you might make it.
With that said, why you want to quit IT and do this, around here every 2nd house being sold to an IT guy or someone who has something to do with that industry?


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## A.Hooker (Aug 17, 2013)

I could see your plan working, but only if you could find yourself a REALLY good lead guy to hire that you trust and can build your business with you. 
That said, you need to know how the install game works on any style house to be able to accurately sell and compete.


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## builder2345 (Aug 31, 2010)

I agree with Greg24k, & think you need some/more experience. You talk about bigger companies having tons of overhead, but the things you mention (radio, graphics, etc) & yourself are the "big overhead". If you want to market yourself as a high quality company, then great; but don't think you won't less overhead than the next guy. 
Just my 2 cents, but doing things the right way (licensing, insurance, advertising) seems to make you have more overhead than the next guy


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## AccurateCut (Mar 20, 2015)

greg24k said:


> Another Homeowner wants to be a contractor...:laughing: Got to love people who put a few windows into theirs own house, think thats all there is to it.
> 
> If you want to start installing windows and siding, go and work for someone doing that and get on hands experience, learn the tricks of the trade and everything that is involved.
> 
> I will add work, it takes serious work blood sweat and tears. Like having a bad day and a window gets broke being installed and when it breaks the client standing right on top of you asking how many times youve done this. Honing your skills is so important and you will be hard pressed to find someone to do the job the way you would because at the end of the day its your company not theirs and its the job for them not a huge sacrifice of being the shop keeper floor sweeper complaint dept accountant and the list goes on. We all are good at what we choose to be good at but in my opinion you have to pay your dues in anything and in contracting unless you can show what you know you will not get any respect out of those that do this day in day out they will laugh at you when you turn and walk away.


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## pxjiang (May 7, 2010)

My opoinion is to start small and get bigger when you are ready. Advertising is not as important as repuation and networking for a contractor. It take times to build these things.


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## music9704 (Nov 4, 2009)

I call Bull Chit.... There are so many problems with this. 
So in theory, "I'll start a Company, piece work everything, make money while ridding around selling; maybe even play a little golf...... 
All this, in a trade that I've only play around with. If it were only that easy. Makes me wonder why a LOT of these contractors are out there swinging hammers with their guys (that's if they can afford to have guys). IMO. Go Commercial. The average HO don't have the money. They will want every third window free. Your subs will eat your profit; then be like "we're not making $" and go down the road. {I know, I pieced for over 10 yrs.} It all about $$. Bidding? From a book? Workers comp? Do your subs need it? What happens if you can't find subs. Are you ready to spend 75-80 hours a week, getting the job done? What happens when you lose $$ on back to backs. Your wife going to be OK with that? Get Real. NOT that simple. I've been at it for almost 30 yrs. It's just not that simple. 
Hum, I put a bandage on my daughter, I'm going to open up a medical office...


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## music9704 (Nov 4, 2009)

AccurateCut said:


> greg24k said:
> 
> 
> > We all are good at what we choose to be good at but in my opinion you have to pay your dues in anything and in contracting unless you can show what you know you will not get any respect out of those that do this day in day out they will laugh at you when you turn and walk away.
> ...


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

I think a few pictures of what the OP---HO, DIY'er, IT Guy---did to his house would be nice. At least then we could see if he has any innate skills at what he proposes to do. 

What few IT, Tech HO's I've run into here in Silicon Valley all seem to fit the mold of the OP. Trade work is really simple, actually way beneath them as far as a job or career goes.......Because they are so smart and have things all figured out.......especially if you sit all day in front of a computer and get paid six figures.....at least until you are outsourced to China or India. 

Most of these guys are pretty smart, but only in a very thin sliver of life and knowledge. They are extremely naive and presumptuous about everything else......Their ego is tied to their paycheck and the fact that they hang around with others just like them. They believe that having an advanced degree in computer science, engineering, statistics or finance makes them an expert on everything. 

Funny though, they don't want to pay you more than minimum wage for your work.....in which they want to buy all the materials (cus they know more than you)......and....they would do the work themselves, but they just can't find the time away from the "important" work that they do. 

Sorry for the rant, but this guy really fits the profile, and, I noticed he posted once then gave up.....which is probably what would happen in a short time if he actually tried going into business for himself.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

cwatbay said:


> I think a few pictures of what the OP---HO, DIY'er, IT Guy---did to his house would be nice. At least then we could see if he has any innate skills at what he proposes to do.
> 
> What few IT, Tech HO's I've run into here in Silicon Valley all seem to fit the mold of the OP. Trade work is really simple, actually way beneath them as far as a job or career goes.......Because they are so smart and have things all figured out.......especially if you sit all day in front of a computer and get paid six figures.....at least until you are outsourced to China or India.
> 
> ...


That is a very spot on summation, sir!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

A wanna be truck ass!!! 


The only way I can see this guy making out is to become a window supplier . Then pay employees to install. If he can sell the window with install cheaper then the client can buy the window he may have a chance. But he'll need to find some damn good employees at a low wage. Window installs can sometimes make the pros stop and scratch their heads!! Or ! He could hire illegals ! I know siding contractors that do this and do very well.


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## Creter (Oct 13, 2009)

blacktop said:


> Window installs can sometimes make the pros stop and scratch their heads!!



Exactly, I say they are like a box of chocolates - you never know exactly what you are going to run into with a window replacement.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I know a guy that started a garage door company back in the late 80s.
It was just him and a beat up old Ford truck. One door at a time .

Now he has a fleet of trucks [nice trucks !!] His warehouse is next to the tracks his doors come in boxcars at a time. Even the builders cant buy a garage door for what he can supply and install. But! This ole boy paid his dues ! He worked his ass off to get where he's at now. 

Back when he started out ..Most builders installed their own doors . Around here there were no garage door companies . He found a niche! 
When the boom hit ..This guy took off ! Mostly hired college boys ..Paid them well! All the guys wear uniforms clean cut kids ! And don't blink When they pull in the drive ! Or you'll miss the whole process!! FAST! And Don't even think about working in the garage when they show up! :no:


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

We getting spam posts now from HA????Some one tell me how to report this chit?I get enough of there crap in my inbox and phone without seeing it here too.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

mako1 said:


> We getting spam posts now from HA????Some one tell me how to report this chit?I get enough of there crap in my inbox and phone without seeing it here too.


In Tapatalk :Select the post, then select the 3 dot menu bar at the top right, select "Report". 
On the website there's a flag in one of the corners that'll open a dialogue box.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

It is a curious thing that this topic came up when it did.

I have been doing all my own computer hardware and software maintenance myself for many years now including putting together system and networks for my home and for some friends.
I was thinking of starting a small IT business and to market it somewhere between the Craig's list people and the big companies.

Think I have a chance to make good money and make my customers happy with my services thereby getting good referrals and better paying jobs and clients?













Naaahhhh!!!!


Andy.


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## JAH (Jul 27, 2014)

The niche between CL hacks and Newpro or Renewal by Anderson is actually the norm.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

I've been a contractor for 30 years.......can I have your IT job?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Last Summer I replaced the tail light on my Jeep, I am thinking about starting a auto repair shop.

I bought a metal pick for my teeth and have had some pretty good success and keeping my teeth clean I think I'll start a dental practice.

I manage my daughters travel softball league for the past four years, I am going for the next MLB manager spot. I think I am ready.


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## jsl (Jun 4, 2015)

Biggest issue I see is a guy coming from a white collar profession thinking that there is a special niche in a blue collar industry, yet he does not see himself as doing the work himself - at least to start out in the beginning so he can learn by doing instead of relying on others who will quickly learn that he does not know more than them and that itself can undermine your respect.

My advice: get licensed, get insurance, etc. start out small and be a one man operation until you understand the competition and best tweak your business model to fill a presumably unfilled niche. Ideally, be one of the contractors that Home Depot uses for this kind of work. But without a track record, they would have to be hard pressed to consider you.


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## Yonde (Sep 9, 2013)

*Good luck*

If you want to do it, do it because you're passionate about it not just because you think you can make a dollar. I'll echo what everyone else says it's a lot of hard work and if you're only there for the money you won't last long because the money will not be there when you are starting out. Try and explain to an insurance agent or a customer you're "worth it" when you have no track record. That's like asking a bank to loan you money because "you're good for it," but you have no income. 

I'd suggest trying it on the side first and see what happens before you quit your day job.


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## Jclem33 (Mar 31, 2015)

Love these responses. People see an extreme makeover or home and garden show, or do some work on their house and they think they can start a business after doing some napkin calculations. I mean it's no threat on my territory in the long run but it is a pain in the ass when this attitude becomes prevalent "cuz' it's just slappin some wood together".


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

When you look around and see that there are two main business models selling a product (cheap and high end); that's what you see because those are the mathematical systems that work. Not complex math, arithmetic. 

I'm going to build a car, pay everyone if my employees a living wage, it'll be light and fast, fuel efficient, cheap and high quality. I know thousands of other automakers have come and gone and a few remain to dominate the market, but I have a new way, tho I have no experience in the industry, that will be much better.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

OUCH.... I'll bet the OP didn't expect these kinds of responses. Sitting in front of his computer or someone else's doing his IT gig, he's never been told that he's full of S%#& before. 

I may not wear a tool belt and boots, but I've been in this business a LONG time (30 years) and solve window and door problems for customers that other contractors would either walk away from or not be able to do what I (we) do. And, that comes from my years and years of selling projects, being on the installs, asking tons and tons of questions and "learning the trade" while working for other companies.

Many times, I've given my subs tips or instructions on a project, that either makes their job easier, or the install better and they respect me for it. Not too often mind you because the guys I use are some of the best around. I pay them well, set incredibly high expectations and never quibble over any extras that might have come up during the install to make the job better. They know they don't have to fight for their money come payday.

Too many times while working for other companies, I saw extremely talented installers leave because if they did anything that wasn't on the work order to make the install better, they wouldn't get paid for it. Or the company would back charge the salesman. It created a measure of distrust between management, installation departments and the sales force. But, that's how a lot of big companies operate.

We may be a small company, but we're not Cheap Charley, FAR from it. We do premium work, using the best products and materials available and charge accordingly. In just our fourth year in business, nearly 70% of our business comes from referrals or repeat business. That's because we are VERY good at what we do. 

And, I'm sorry OP.... but you just won't be able to compete with the pro's who wear the belts and swing the hammers with dedication and pride, or guys like me who, because of my experience in the business, know just about everything there is about a project before it starts. You just can't get that from doing a little DIY around your own home.


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