# Speed Leads- source to purchase cheaply or build ideas.



## HammerOn (Jul 25, 2013)

I would like to give a set of speed leads a try for laying block. 

Superior Masonry Story-Rite makes some awesome looking ones but their a little pricey for something I've never tried/used.

I saw a post on here that a cheap set could be purchased for $250-$300 but never found a brand or link.

I'm not opposed to building a set (I dabble in metal fabrication) but would rather buy a cheap set to start. 

Can anyone link me to a cheap but effective set or share some details on building my own. 

Thanks Guys!


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

You would have to lay a lot of block to have them pay for themselves.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

IMHO, the best,most versatile poles out there are Bon Tool model C poles. They can be used on block,brick,veneer,solid load bearing single or multi story work. They set up real quick and have both brick spacing and modular scales permanently etched on pole.


http://www.bontool.com/product1.asp?P=CORNERPOLES


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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)

I build my own out of 2" x 2" x 3/16" angle iron and a piece of 1'' square tubing. These will telescope up to 9' or so. For 10'+ ones I usually use 2" square tubing though I don't like them as much because a line block will slip off of them too easily.

I don't lay block, so I'm not sure how they would work, but for the veneer work that I do they work marvelously.

I can buy enough steel to make probably 10 leads for the price of one of those that fjn linked to.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Kniggit said:


> I can buy enough steel to make probably 10 leads for the price of one of those that fjn linked to.




I definitely would not argue that point. The versatility and ease of use (permanent masonry scales etc.) make them a no brainer for me.


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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)

I wasn't knocking them, my apologies if taken that way. Not sure what the scales are on those but all of the brick I lay would be considered oversized, my guys would probably be too stupid to figure out how to use them anyway.

I get leads stolen quite often, without a doubt the number one thing that comes up missing on the job, but I use them on everything. It's a bit of a different world around here in residential construction compared to what I have seen of others' jobsites posted here on CT.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Kniggit said:


> I wasn't knocking them, my apologies if taken that way. Not sure what the scales are on those but all of the brick I lay would be considered oversized, my guys would probably be too stupid to figure out how to use them anyway.
> 
> I get leads stolen quite often, without a doubt the number one thing that comes up missing on the job, but I use them on everything. It's a bit of a different world around here in residential construction compared to what I have seen of others' jobsites posted here on CT.





No apology necessary,did not think you were knocking them. We all have our individual preferences though. Who is to say one's method is superior to an others ? I just see it as personal choices.


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## Duner (Oct 3, 2014)

Ours were angle iron, welded bottom corner and an adjustable top depth so it worked for brick and block. There were no scales on them, or they had just been worn off over the years but you can quickly mark em out with your tape in the morning before the job even starts.

I've never actually heard them called speed leads, we only ever called them corner poles.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I have intentions of building some out of 2x2 square tubing (I bought aluminum but the edges are less square than steel tube I've seen).

Weld 2 pieces of 2x2 angle 90* to each other. One piece to attach to the wall and another 5" long or so to stick out from the wall. A groove is cut into each piece of angle and a piece of threaded rod is either welded onto the side of the pole at the top or put through a hole with some nuts and washers. You then make a mounting plate out of flat steel with 2 short pieces of threaded rod welded to them 4 " or so apart. After a small lead is built, say 3 courses high, the mounting plate is attached to the wall and the bracket made of angle iron is mounted to it just finger tight and the pole is mounted to the piece that sticks out from the wall, both through the grooves. Because the angle iron has grooves it's adjustable in both directions so it can be plumbed in either direction. Then coursing is marked out on the pole and you're good to go

I'm sure I've made it sound much more complicated than it is...i'll try to make a drawing but my drawings often complicate matters


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)




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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)

You're over thinking it  a C-clamp is easier than your bolt and groove


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

We've used our own 2" by 2" by ~.080 steel tubing poles for block for years, wouldn't do it any other way in a basement or decent sized addition. I know guy's will always tell you that they can lay leads faster, yada, yada, yada.... but I've never seen that as the case for us. Not to mention, our walls our more level, square, and accurate since we've gone to the poles. That certainly has some value in itself.........

Ours are just 9'4" square tubing, with an independent foot plate that we nail to the footing right after we pour it. The plate has a slightly smaller (1.75") stub welded to it. For the top, we just have a 1/2" bolt through it, and we attach a 2x4 with a hole in it. Just nail a second 2x at ~90 degree angle to the first, and stake them into the ground, typically on top of the bank.

Someone else here had made adjustable braces for the top, which would undoubtedly be much faster than how we do it..........


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

Yeah, I had my adjustable braces made. When I start a basement, we can set the corner poles up quickly, and start laying.


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

On brick, I had some brackets made, that I screw to the wall and clamp my poles to.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Kniggit said:


> You're over thinking it  a C-clamp is easier than your bolt and groove


What do you clamp it to? And how to adjust? 

I'm just making something similar to a set my boss had when I was a labe, except his were factory


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## wazez (Oct 25, 2008)

Not the best pictures but basically 1/2" conduit slid inside 3/4" with nuts welded in for thumb screws.


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

That's how mine are made, I just bolt mine to the top of the poles.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

With trench footings I can really see how they would make your life easier, especially for maintaining levelness. On a slab we just pulled a tape to check the heights.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Shoot...i need to read threads more carefully...never even saw that he wanted tot use them for block...mine only work for veneer


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## Windwash (Dec 23, 2007)

wazez said:


> Not the best pictures but basically 1/2" conduit slid inside 3/4" with nuts welded in for thumb screws.


Are the scaffold in the middle picture a commercially made system or something you have built/modified on your own? Looks very efficient:thumbsup:. 

Besides being an odd shape they caught my eye because there are no cross braces.


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## wazez (Oct 25, 2008)

Windwash said:


> Are the scaffold in the middle picture a commercially made system or something you have built/modified on your own? Looks very efficient:thumbsup:.
> 
> Besides being an odd shape they caught my eye because there are no cross braces.


It is a manufactured system.I'm actually not sure what brand it is as I bought it used at an auction.

I believe biljax has some. We love it for any walls under 9 ft.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Here is a connection to those frames,scroll down to end of first page.


http://www.biljax.com/products/frames/


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## HammerOn (Jul 25, 2013)

We may not "need" them for as little block as we do. Just started doing block for our own projects. Roughly one foundation a month with 1,000 block count. 

Just trying to find our grove. At this point we just can't seem to lay more than around 100-8" in an 8hr period- per man.

We'll hit it hard but just seems to be a ceiling we can break thru. Here's where I believe we're missing it:

1: Years of experience! (Can't do much about that but lay)

2: Mortar consistency (too wet they try and sink, too dry and you have to tap too much to bring them down to the line)

3: Trowel technique (simply making too many unnecessary strokes) I think this one partially rests upon # 2- Mortar consistency.

4: Hand Strength to control setting the block a little more strategically. 


I'm smart enough to know there's always more to things than meets the eye. I would like to tip my hat to you masons, everyone should try your job for a week.


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

HammerOn, I think the poles would work for what you need, and help speed up your entire process. Like I said, speed has been only one of the factors we've picked up on, and we have decades of experience on our crew. We undoubtedly put out a straighter, squarer, flatter, more level foundation since we switched to poles years ago.

On another note, I think getting the help from a seasoned mason whenever you can would help your crew substantially. I grew up around my Dad's crew, and learned quite a bit from them, but on Saturday's, we had a revolving door of guy's help us out when they were not working there regular job. Mostly older gents my Dad had worked with in the union years before. Being exposed to so many different skill sets by so many seasoned masons helped me develop a style that works best for me...........


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

dom-mas said:


> What do you clamp it to? And how to adjust?
> 
> I'm just making something similar to a set my boss had when I was a labe, except his were factory


This is one of the brackets I had made for my poles when we are laying brick.


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

jomama said:


> HammerOn, I think the poles would work for what you need, and help speed up your entire process. Like I said, speed has been only one of the factors we've picked up on, and we have decades of experience on our crew. We undoubtedly put out a straighter, squarer, flatter, more level foundation since we switched to poles years ago.
> 
> On another note, I think getting the help from a seasoned mason whenever you can would help your crew substantially. I grew up around my Dad's crew, and learned quite a bit from them, but on Saturday's, we had a revolving door of guy's help us out when they were not working there regular job. Mostly older gents my Dad had worked with in the union years before. Being exposed to so many different skill sets by so many seasoned masons helped me develop a style that works best for me...........



Your story is the same as mine, and I wouldn't trade it for anything :thumbsup:


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

brickhook said:


> This is one of the brackets I had made for my poles when we are laying brick.


OK, so you still have a bracket, just instead of threaded rod and grooves you use a C clamp to plumb in one direction. the brackets I have in mind would take an hour each to build and would then be all inclusive. Not that the C clamp doesn't work, but it's no easier than my system


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

I didn't mean that mine was easier, it's just what I came up with and it's what I use.

Now what we used for years were store bought and dang near took two people to mount and adjust. To this day I still hate those, so what I had made is a lot easier to use, compared to my old brackets.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh I was more responding to Kniggit I guess. The way I read what he had written was that brackets weren't necessary and just a C clamp was all that was needed I see how yours are used and it work fine, but my system is as easy and perhaps easier, also the bracket is more easily made at home in my opinion

When i was a labe i could roughly set up the speedlead while the bricklayer was building a small lead, then I could fine tune it within a minute or so..just loosen the nut and move inside the groove.


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## wazez (Oct 25, 2008)

dom-mas said:


> OK, so you still have a bracket, just instead of threaded rod and grooves you use a C clamp to plumb in one direction. the brackets I have in mind would take an hour each to build and would then be all inclusive. Not that the C clamp doesn't work, but it's no easier than my system


Do you have any pics of your brackets?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

dom-mas said:


>


Just this drawing. I don't weld and i don't do much brick so I haven't gone any further, but the intention is there :whistling


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## wazez (Oct 25, 2008)

dom-mas said:


> Just this drawing. I don't weld and i don't do much brick so I haven't gone any further, but the intention is there :whistling


Gotcha...I like the idea. Do you have a patent on the idea?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

No...have at it if you like. My old boss had one similar. His looked factory, but not certain if it was


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## wazez (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanks prob won't as long as I don't lay more brick than I do now.


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## Kniggit (Apr 11, 2013)

dom-mas said:


> Oh I was more responding to Kniggit I guess. The way I read what he had written was that brackets weren't necessary and just a C clamp was all that was needed I see how yours are used and it work fine, but my system is as easy and perhaps easier, also the bracket is more easily made at home in my opinion
> 
> When i was a labe i could roughly set up the speedlead while the bricklayer was building a small lead, then I could fine tune it within a minute or so..just loosen the nut and move inside the groove.


No, I have to use a arm or bracket as you call it if the wall is too high. I just thought that your bolt at the top of your lead was overkill somewhat. I didn't see a way to adjust the height of your lead so I was thinking that your bracket would have to be hung at the perfect height to receive the bolt.

Admittedly, I didn't take in to account how things are done differently in other areas than they are here. Here, the cornice/brick frieze is already up before we get to the job, so we just usually hang our leads off of that, tucking a soldier in at the top. If the wall is too high then we use an arm that is usually just some 1x4 nailed together. I'll try to remember to take some pics today.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

No..the lead isn't adjustable in height, the my biss had was maybe 7'8 so that there was room for the bracket and the lead on an 8' high wall. after 8' you'd have to re-attach it. The square tube I bought is only 6' because i typically work alone and want to be able to set them up myself. But it would be 2 screws and a twist of a nut to re-set them


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## jomama (Oct 25, 2008)

I meant to post a few pics a while back, but here they are. I made these a number of years ago when we were starting a new home with a bunch of quoined corners. Here they are:


























The first picture is the base plate that's laid into the bedjoint in the first few courses. Generally it's best to set these the day before if possible.

The second is an intermediate bracket that we'll set into a bed joint when we use one of the 20' long poles.

The last is the top and bottom side of the top bracket. For the house side, it's a piece of 4x4x1/4" angle iron with a few screw holes, welded to some flat stock, and attached to a piece of 2" channel iron with a long slot. The receiver for the pole is 2 1/2" tubing with a bolt for a set screw, to tighten to the 2" square tubing we use for poles.


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