# Gfci protection



## dmanola7 (May 2, 2009)

Is there a limit to the number of receptacles connected to the load side of a GFCI or GFCI C.B. ? 
The job I am doing is @ a bar and there are (5) 4" square boxes with (2) receptacles per box spread out about 5' apart. There is one circuit feeding these receptacles and they are being utilized for coolers. There is no GFCI protection and the last set of receptacles falls out next to the sink. Would a 20A GFCI C.B. be sufficient protection for these receptacles?


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Your worried about how many rec you can put on one GFCI? I would begin with breaking up circuits for these coolers and putting a GFCI at the start "line" of each circuit. Even if the coolers are not maxing out the circuit i think you will find over time the GFCI will be stressed and fail. I just ran into this in a kitchen at a local bar/restaurant where a GFCI had failed and they were running a cooler and 2 food warmers off of it. I talked the owner into installing 2 more circuits that were GFCI protected to operate each appliance. I am sure someone else will chime in with better advice for you but that is where i would go with your problem. Good luck.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Not in the NEC.

You may have a local amendment that has a limit. And some manufacturers used to have a numerical limit, but I haven't seen any for years.


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## dmanola7 (May 2, 2009)

woodchuck2 said:


> Your worried about how many rec you can put on one GFCI? I would begin with breaking up circuits for these coolers and putting a GFCI at the start "line" of each circuit. Even if the coolers are not maxing out the circuit i think you will find over time the GFCI will be stressed and fail. I just ran into this in a kitchen at a local bar/restaurant where a GFCI had failed and they were running a cooler and 2 food warmers off of it. I talked the owner into installing 2 more circuits that were GFCI protected to operate each appliance. I am sure someone else will chime in with better advice for you but that is where i would go with your problem. Good luck.


I think I am going to run another circuit and break up the load, all the receptacles and conduit are behind the coolers, so once I get the area cleared I will do it to Code Standards. The bar is filled with hot girls so the longer I am there the better lol. Thanks for the advice woodchuck


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## hbelectric (Oct 8, 2007)

dmanola7 said:


> Is there a limit to the number of receptacles connected to the load side of a GFCI or GFCI C.B. ?
> The job I am doing is @ a bar and there are (5) 4" square boxes with (2) receptacles per box spread out about 5' apart. There is one circuit feeding these receptacles and they are being utilized for coolers. There is no GFCI protection and the last set of receptacles falls out next to the sink. Would a 20A GFCI C.B. be sufficient protection for these receptacles?


Ok I would use a GCFI per 2 cooler's, depending on loads, if they are between 1-5 amps each. Most likely needs 2 circuits. These are continuous loads also.


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## electrichelper (Jul 13, 2009)

What I recommend is splitting the circuits to whatever, depending on amperage draw on each cooler. Then do voltage drop. There are two ways to run this circuit. You can run just breakers, due to easy access in my opinion since it's a bar, or place a GFCI receptacle at the beginning of each circuit for protection, but not so much convenient for being able to access it. As far as the limit, NEC states no limit but just look at local codes and specs in the direction booklet. Hopes this helps and good luck to you....


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## ampman (Apr 1, 2009)

would the coolers be considered dedicated appliances not requiring gfi


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

Inductive loads can cause false GFCI trips from kickbacks from compressor cycling. If it goes undetected, things may spoil.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Electric_Light said:


> Inductive loads can cause false GFCI trips from kickbacks from compressor cycling. If it goes undetected, things may spoil.


If you are concerned about this you could have an alarm of some sort downstream of the GFCI, and have it go off when there is no power.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

crazyboy said:


> If you are concerned about this you could have an alarm of some sort downstream of the GFCI, and have it go off when there is no power.


What are you going to do when it goes out Friday evening, then not discovered until Sunday night?


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## DavidsElectric (Jul 7, 2009)

Around here All 110v Cord and plug appliances in a commercial kitchen have to be GFCI protected, Even dedicated ones. So those would need GFCI protection. I know a Bar is not a Kitchen, but they still consider that food service around here. I thought it would be a nightmare, and was worried about the warranty period of my first job. Amazingly, I have hade no issues in about a dozen jobs now. I guess the GFIS have been improved a lot in recent years. The GFCI protection on exterior Pop machines however, have been tripping. I know that wasn't a question, but thought I would give some warning.

And yes it does happen when no one is around and things do go bad. The Code doesn't address these things. There are alarms that can contact you in event of failure, but not heavily used do to cost. I have only installed these in large foods stores


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

DavidsElectric said:


> ...........I thought it would be a nightmare, and was worried about the warranty period of my first job. .............


If whatever is plugged in is tripping the GFI, you don't have a warranty issue.... you have a safety issue. You should not be condemned to solving a problem with someone else's equipment, rather you should be commended for creating a safe environment your installation has provided.

The GFI didn't trip because it's installed incorrectly, it tripped because there's a safety issue and it is doing it's job _protecting people_.


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## crazyboy (Nov 8, 2008)

Electric_Light said:


> What are you going to do when it goes out Friday evening, then not discovered until Sunday night?


What am I going to do? Well nothing. But you could have it trip a dialer when it loses power so it will call you on Friday evening. :laughing: BTW what bar have you seen that's closed on a Friday evening?


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

crazyboy said:


> What am I going to do? Well nothing. But you could have it trip a dialer when it loses power so it will call you on Friday evening. :laughing: BTW what bar have you seen that's closed on a Friday evening?


Although the specific example maybe for a bar, the described event can happen elsewhere.


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## CK1 (Jul 22, 2009)

In answer to your initial question, the rule of thumb is 5 devices on the load side of the GFI receptacle....

AND, GFI are not designed to handle appliance or equip. loads. They're for plugs.

GFI's are almost as sensitive on the Nuetral as they are on the ground. It will wear out and fail after a while and the devise is like a diode, it has a finite amount of on/off cycles.

ALWAYS seperate appliances from standard counter-top GFI's.

Ofcourse, that's just my opinion based on 25 years in the business and having done houses in So. Cal as big as 50,000 sq.ft.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

CK1 said:


> ...........GFI's are almost as sensitive on the Nuetral as they are on the ground..........


Huh?


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## ampman (Apr 1, 2009)

480sparky said:


> If whatever is plugged in is tripping the GFI, you don't have a warranty issue.... you have a safety issue. You should not be condemned to solving a problem with someone else's equipment, rather you should be commended for creating a safe environment your installation has provided.
> 
> The GFI didn't trip because it's installed incorrectly, it tripped because there's a safety issue and it is doing it's job _protecting people_.


 how many times have you been called out for a bad gfi when it was something that was plug in that had a ground fault people don't understand what we do.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

ampman said:


> how many times have you been called out for a bad gfi when it was something that was plug in that had a ground fault people don't understand what we do.


It's an excellent opportunity to educate them then! :thumbsup:


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## Ponsse (Dec 12, 2007)

CK1 said:


> GFI's are almost as sensitive on the Nuetral as they are on the ground. It will wear out and fail after a while and the devise is like a diode, it has a finite amount of on/off cycles.


 
As the GFCI is only monitoring the amperage between the current carrying conductors and tripping on an imbalance, could you elaborate on this statement. I would be most interested in your reasoning.


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## Softy (Jul 26, 2009)

Ya know you probably need a dedicated 15 or 20A circuit for that cooler alone GFCI or not. I don't normally use GFCI on major appliances, unless the job call for, because it suck to much juice and if it short out it'll trip the breaker anyway, probably just as fast as it trip GFCI. If you do try GFCI at the breaker it's much easier.


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