# Most useful CAD program for a carpenter?



## Easy Gibson

I just went out on my own as a carpenter/installer about a month ago and it seems like virtually every job I get the customer wants a fairly detailed design of the project. This makes total sense, but it's something I've never had to deal with being an employee for so many years. I just showed up and started working.
Since I never went to design skills and have no actual skills, and especially since I don't have a drafting table or tools, I think it's time I started learned a CAD program.
My wife is a designer and has most of them already installed on our computers.

So I put it to you gentlemen, if I were going to begin working on learning a CAD program, which do you feel would be most beneficial to somebody who designs and builds bookcases, built-ins, benches, etc?

Thanks for your time, gents.


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## Bjackson3

I've been very happy with sketch up. Free, lots of online tutorials. I like how you kind of build things in the same way a carpenter would. It's not a CAD program but it works for me.


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## kambrooks

Easy Gibson said:


> I just went out on my own as a carpenter/installer about a month ago and it seems like virtually every job I get the customer wants a fairly detailed design of the project. This makes total sense, but it's something I've never had to deal with being an employee for so many years. I just showed up and started working.
> Since I never went to design skills and have no actual skills, and especially since I don't have a drafting table or tools, I think it's time I started learned a CAD program.
> My wife is a designer and has most of them already installed on our computers.
> 
> So I put it to you gentlemen, if I were going to begin working on learning a CAD program, which do you feel would be most beneficial to somebody who designs and builds bookcases, built-ins, benches, etc?
> 
> Thanks for your time, gents.


Start with SketchUp, it's free and so versatile. When I started I looked for software and spent more than I'm comfortable admitting, but I go back to SketchUp every time. It's easy to use, so many tutorials.

I do a lot of bathrooms and kitchens, for that I usually bring in a designer, but for layouts, built ins, sometimes even decks, I use SketchUp.

A lot of the simple drawings I have to submit for permits I hand sketch then transfer to SketchUp.


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## redwood

Ask your wife, if she has a lot of them


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## WarriorWithWood

Another vote for Sketchup as a starting point then Chief Architect.


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## Easy Gibson

Yeah, I've been dinking around with SketchUp for a bit.

Just wanted to see if there was a resounding vote for AutoCAD or 3DMax or whatever from the building community.

Trying to design with my wife is like trying to build with an architect. Literally. I have trouble conveying what is important when bidding a job to her and she has trouble dumbing design concepts down for me. 
The real trouble though is exactly this current situation. She's at work and I'm at home taking hours to draw a bookcase that she could have knocked out in 5 minutes. This must end!

Thanks for the replies.


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## Civil Headache

You should go with Autodesk Revit or Solid Works if your looking at doing actual design work. Sketchup is really too dumbed down for doing a full design and you can't plot worth a damn or follow CAD standards. Like Sketchup, Autodesk 3DS Max is more of a general-use 3d modeling program, albeit much more robust than Sketchup, and more difficult to use . 

In other words Sketchup/3d max are for making pretty pictures while Revit/solid works are for doing actual design work. You can import a Revit or Solid works model into Sketchup and Render it there if you want to make a conceptual rendering.

EDIT: 
Lazily, I didnt read your whole post. Sketchup would work fine for designing book shelves...


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## Rich D.

Id start with sketchup.


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## Easy Gibson

Civil Headache said:


> You should go with Autodesk Revit or Solid Works if your looking at doing actual design work. Sketchup is really too dumbed down for doing a full design and you can't plot worth a damn or follow CAD standards. Like Sketchup, Autodesk 3DS Max is more of a general-use 3d modeling program, albeit much more robust than Sketchup, and more difficult to use .
> 
> In other words Sketchup/3d max are for making pretty pictures while Revit/solid works are for doing actual design work. You can import a Revit or Solid works model into Sketchup and Render it there if you want to make a conceptual rendering.
> 
> EDIT:
> Lazily, I didnt read your whole post. Sketchup would work fine for designing book shelves...


Eh, don't feel bad, I barely read my posts.

Wife has AutoCad, 3D Max, Illustrator, etc. She can do some incredible stuff with them, but unless one of you came up with a solid reason for me not to use sketchup that's what I'm going to invest my time with.
I just wanted to attempt to cover my bases in case the tradesmen all unanimously said, "Definitely don't use sketchup because unlike other programs, it can't do X."

Thanks for all the replies. Last night I successfully made a 2x4 at 8 and 16' lengths. By this weekend I'll have a whole lumberyard.
In case anybody else is as remedial as I am, did you know that you can import trim profiles from many millwork companies' websites?
Useful and free!


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## Jaws

My old man uses the latest version of Soft Plan. He says Auto Cad would be better for cabinet drawings.


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## mics_54

yeah SU will never work for a carpenter!


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## wallmaxx

I have used autocad quite a bit....but not quickly for proposals. I use CAD for shop drawings of the plans so I can build things more accurately and faster.


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## wallmaxx

I've also used SolidBuilder. Kinda spendy and not all that render powerful. But for framing....it does pretty well.

I did an apartment complex in Junction City, KS. SB tracked every stick of lumber and generated a separate page drawing for each wall.


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## wallmaxx

I trust AutoCad the most


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## ebivremodel

AutoCad is an industry standard but has a big learning curve. Sketch up has a quicker learning curve.


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## Texas Wax

Jaws said:


> My old man uses the latest version of Soft Plan. He says Auto Cad would be better for cabinet drawings.


AutoCad alone works great for cabinet & shop drawings - AutoCad Architecture 201# is prime for construction drawings.

Anybody round here try TurboCad? Did a review for CGarchitect for V9 pro (long time ago), it was pretty good. Would have jumped on it had I not been so $$$ vested in AutoDesk 

Current TurboCad low end version for 40$ may not be a bad solution for basic Architectural drawings.


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## QCCI

Yeah I've heard of turbo cad, my estimator uses it. He creates rebar fab/shop drawings with it, also does foundation drawings.


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## mics_54

Yes I used Turbocad till V14 and bagged it for Sketchup.


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## WarriorWithWood

I can't believe TurboCad is still around.


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## ScipioAfricanus

I would suggest to the OP that he look at the Home Designer Pro series of programs from Chief Architect.

Andy.


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## Easy Gibson

I remember back around 1995 I was in middle school and we spent a couple weeks in each of the shop classes that we would have an option of taking when we got into high school. Sort of like a sampler course that lasted the whole year where you got to try out 10 different shops. It was a really fantastic idea on the school's part and they we were given access to a full metal shop, wood shop, computer lab, graphic design studio, and an architecture studio complete with AutoCAD and a full scale plot printer. What an opportunity!
I definitely made the most of it by drawing dicks with my friends and thinking we were the funniest people ever to live. 

Well played. Well played.


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## ScipioAfricanus

Easy Gibson said:


> I remember back around 1995 I was in middle school and we spent a couple weeks in each of the shop classes that we would have an option of taking when we got into high school. Sort of like a sampler course that lasted the whole year where you got to try out 10 different shops. It was a really fantastic idea on the school's part and they we were given access to a full metal shop, wood shop, computer lab, graphic design studio, and an architecture studio complete with AutoCAD and a full scale plot printer. What an opportunity!
> I definitely made the most of it by drawing dicks with my friends and thinking we were the funniest people ever to live.
> 
> Well played. Well played.


Simply too much information man.

Andy.


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## QCCI

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Simply too much information man.
> 
> Andy.


Wasn't too bad until the last paragraph, and the yeah too much info!


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## moorewarner

They're called skeletons because you are supposed to leave them buried. :whistling


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## The Machinist

I'm not a carpentry but my guess would be AutoCAD. It's crazy the amount of stuff that program can do. It's pretty common in machine shops but I don't mess with it, it's up to the engineers. I'll try to get a picture up of a maze that was drawn on AutoCad that I milled out of a block of aluminum to show what the program is capable of doing.

The place I work at machines and builds hydraulic motors for Caterpillar, John Deere, Case, and a bunch of other construction, agricultural, and mining vehicles and it's drawn on AutoCAD.


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## Easy Gibson

Oh come on, like you people never drew a dick on anything. None of you saw Superbad?


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## moorewarner

That awkward moment when you realize it was just you. :whistling


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## Easy Gibson

Or was it....


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## QCCI

Ahh ok, I thought that sounded familiar. Lol


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## Make Room

Google up Vectorworks 'Architect'.
I've been using it since '01 and love it.
Renderworks is worth the extra cost, as well.

You build with it, just as for real in 2d or 3d.

It kicks out frames and take-offs, easy win/door schedules and is all customizable.


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## zach477

Second vote for Home Designer Pro by Cheif Arch, but if you're only doing book shelves and built ins google sketch up might be enough for you. I would stay away from Punch software's Home Design stuff, same price as Cheif Arch but not as good of software IMO.


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## Runnerguy

"I have never been embarrassed to state what might be self evident, so it will come as no surprise to suggest that the pencil and computer are, if left to their own devices, equally dumb and only as good as the person driving them". Norman Foster

No matter what you're using, the creativity is still going to come from your head.


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## Make Room

Yup.


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## Rio

What do you want to do with it, how much are you going to use it, how much are you willing to pay, and how much time are you willing to put in to learning it?

Basic Sketchup is still free (I think), has a ton of free video tutorials, and if you follow those it's not too hard to pick up the skills. It's great for modeling, not so great for Construction Documents and details.

AutoCad is expensive, even AutoCad LT is around $1,000.00 and as mentioned has a steep learning curve. A good way to get up to speed on AutoCad is to take a class, if available as then when one gets stuck help is there. It can drive one crazy learning it but it is a wonderful program, extremely accurate and one can really crank on it after getting it down. It's unsurpassed for Construction Docs and anything that makes those up but not so good for modeling.

Never have tried Chief but have heard some good stuff about it. Not sure on the price or on the learning curve or how good and available are the tutorials. Looks like ScipioAfricanus could fill you in on the particulars of that program.

Left out Revit earlier. This is a BIM (Building Information Modeling) program, very powerful, steep learning curve, and expensive although it has come out with a light version which is about a grand. Haven't used it yet but heard it does a lot of stuff a normal Cad program won't do such as when updating one feature will update the other (change a window and the window schedule is updated, the framing plan shows the change, etc.). The full version has clash detection which is supposed to let you know when one element will clash with another (ducting too big for the space allowed for example). The whole time you're using this program you are designing in 3d.


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## zach477

Rio said:


> What do you want to do with it, how much are you going to use it, how much are you willing to pay, and how much time are you willing to put in to learning it?
> 
> Basic Sketchup is still free (I think), has a ton of free video tutorials, and if you follow those it's not too hard to pick up the skills. It's great for modeling, not so great for Construction Documents and details.
> 
> AutoCad is expensive, even AutoCad LT is around $1,000.00 and as mentioned has a steep learning curve. A good way to get up to speed on AutoCad is to take a class, if available as then when one gets stuck help is there. It can drive one crazy learning it but it is a wonderful program, extremely accurate and one can really crank on it after getting it down. It's unsurpassed for Construction Docs and anything that makes those up but not so good for modeling.
> 
> Never have tried Chief but have heard some good stuff about it. Not sure on the price or on the learning curve or how good and available are the tutorials. Looks like ScipioAfricanus could fill you in on the particulars of that program.


CA website shows their offerings and price. They also have many how to videos on the website for free and you can also purchase support with the software for any questions the videos can't answer. 

http://www.chiefarchitect.com/home-designer-DIY/

As for taking a CAD class, (this is coming from someone who is a PE that couldnt sit behind a desk any longer and moved into the construction world), I would throw an ad out on craigslist and see what you get. A full blown semester class at a tech school will cost you a few grand and will consume a few hours of every week for 3-4 months. Any drafter or engineer out of college will know the in's and out's of the software and you could prob hire them for $10-$15 an hour to teach you how to use the software. Also, I took 3-4 classes in college from basic 2D CAD up to Pro-E and I learned more on my own playing around with the software and reading the provided books than I did in class.


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## ccnailer

I see SoftPlan 2014 is out. I don't know much about it, but it looks pretty good?

http://www.softplan.com/


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## Make Room

I'm surprised there has been (other than myself), no mention of Vectorworks 'Architect'.
I think its fabulous!


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## renov8r

Beside being a GC/Renovator I am also a designer. I would have to say AutoCAD and Revit. Use 3DMax and Lumion for your renderings. 

With Sketch-Up you can do some cool designs and quick but I've never been able to get the feel for it but if you can do it, you can do well.


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## Currahee

Easy Gibson said:


> I just went out on my own as a carpenter/installer about a month ago and it seems like virtually every job I get the customer wants a fairly detailed design of the project. This makes total sense, but it's something I've never had to deal with being an employee for so many years. I just showed up and started working.
> Since I never went to design skills and have no actual skills, and especially since I don't have a drafting table or tools, I think it's time I started learned a CAD program.
> My wife is a designer and has most of them already installed on our computers.
> 
> So I put it to you gentlemen, if I were going to begin working on learning a CAD program, which do you feel would be most beneficial to somebody who designs and builds bookcases, built-ins, benches, etc?
> 
> Thanks for your time, gents.


I know I am going to make some people mad but dont go the Sketch-up route. I personally use Autodesk Architecture 2012. But I have been using AutoCAD for 24 years. BUT, if I wasn't into a subscription program with Autodesk I would go with Chief Architect for a residential design program. This IMO only!!!!


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## Currahee

Also, they are a lot of FREE CAD programs out there that are so much better than Sketch -Up. Too many for me to list here but if you will message me I will send you a list. (Particuly Solidworks free program; Draftsight.

Check this site out to get you started:

Top 5 free programs

Bear in mind these arent architecturally or "obejct" oriented software; they are generic CAD. But I have designed hundreds of houses, commercial and industrial buildings using "generic" AutoCAD v10 (DOS), v12 and v14 in the 90's well before architectural software had even come out.

This is just my opinion and experience


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## black95gt

ccnailer said:


> I see SoftPlan 2014 is out. I don't know much about it, but it looks pretty good?
> 
> http://www.softplan.com/


Yes, i got it about 3 weeks ago. It was $3200 with Softlist though. I used to be a civil designer with an extensive AutoCAD background. I was proficient with AutoCAD and have found Soft Plan to be a great program, but find it difficult to adjust since I am used to AutoCAD. I like to use keyboard commands vs using the mouse and radio buttons.

I will recommend SP though. It has been easy to learn the basics and can literally have a basic floor plan done and modeled in a couple of hours. I start to slow down when it comes to adding notes and doing my wall sections and drawing detail sections. I might just do these in AutoCAD since i can do it much quicker at this time.

I plan to learn SP so that i can utilize all the tools that it has to offer. I intend to use this to eliminate the need to buy plans and to sell projects. Not many contractors can give thier clients a complete rendered visual and most clients cant comprehend 2D drawings.


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## vella

black95gt said:


> I will recommend SP though. It has been easy to learn the basics and can literally have a basic floor plan done and modeled in a couple of hours. I start to slow down when it comes to adding notes and doing my wall sections and drawing detail sections. I might just do these in AutoCAD since i can do it much quicker at this time.


I know what you mean. I bought Softplan last June or July. I am still learning new tricks every day. I used Acad LT before I made the switch. In the beginning, I'd just import my wall details from ACAD into Sopftplan for my construction docs. Since then I've just created a library of details specific to my needs. Now when I need a detail, I can add it in seconds from the symbol library. Once you get the hang of Softplan, you'll be flying through a set a plans. The key with softplan is taking the time to set the program up correctly.

- setup the system options (dimensions, layers, pen style, etc)
- delete (or move) symbols you don't need. A cluttered library will only slow you down
- create any custom doors & windows you may need
- I renamed all the doors & windows so they created a schedule like I wanted. (actually did the same for the Electrical)
- create a library of details that you'll use on different plans.
- create the speed notes you'll use.

the user created site, softplantuts, has better information and a MUCH better user forum than the official softplan forum which hasn't been updated in about 10 years (no exaggeration). It is a great resource.


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## MasonryToronto

Auto CAD or 3D Max!


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## Calidecks

Make Room said:


> I'm surprised there has been (other than myself), no mention of Vectorworks 'Architect'.
> I think its fabulous!


As a deck builder, I use Deckworks plugin on a Vectorworks platform it works great for me. However it was a bit pricy. Actually I think it's Nemetchek.


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