# Sole Proprietor carrying WSIB



## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

So I am curious, here in Ontario if you are a SP and you have no employees you are not required to carry WSIB (Workers Comp).

I want to hear from other SP's on who has workers comp and who doesn't and some possible reasons for having and not having it.

I don't carry it, I do carry GL insurance for 2 MIL, more worried about if something happens to a customer or customers site then what happens to myself.


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## Krause (Feb 26, 2012)

I Wish i didn't have to.. But i do work for GCs on occasion so I have to have it.. I really do think they should make it either mandatory for all or none cause Im get undercut by guys that don't have it.. I do also carry 2m insurance aswell


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## ASInsulation (Aug 25, 2010)

Absolutely carry. Some companies will allow you to purchase on a per the job basis as well. Might be worth it to pick it up when needed for a little more money per day, but less then a whole year. That's how I ran it initially until the scale switched sides.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Your in Ontario, so am I. The only way you cannot have WSIB is you work strictly for homeowners directly and have no employees.

The minute you step on a job site other then Mr & Mrs. Smith own home someone is paying WSIB for you, it should be yourself, but if your not registered the GC or whoever you are working for is picking up the tab.

The fortunate part about our WSIB is once you register you will pay a small deposit of a couple hundred dollars, burn that up and then after that you only pay for what you work, no estimating for future payroll, more or less pay as go after you've completed the work, sometimes monthly, quarterly or annually, they will tell you based on your annual payroll.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> So I am curious, here in Ontario if you are a SP and you have no employees you are not required to carry WSIB (Workers Comp).
> 
> I want to hear from other SP's on who has workers comp and who doesn't and some possible reasons for having and not having it.
> 
> I don't carry it, I do carry GL insurance for 2 MIL, more worried about if something happens to a customer or customers site then what happens to myself.


You have to carry it unless it's for homeowners directly, which applies to almost no one.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

This was an amendment effective Jan 2013 iirc.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks for all the info guys, I will have to go back and look over the regs again, my understanding was you didn't need it as an SP unless you had employee's but its also been almost 2 years since I read the rules surrounding WSIB.


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## Krause (Feb 26, 2012)

SectorSecurity said:


> Thanks for all the info guys, I will have to go back and look over the regs again, my understanding was you didn't need it as an SP unless you had employee's but its also been almost 2 years since I read the rules surrounding WSIB.


 Ya that was the case until jan 1st 2013, now if your not working directly for the HO then you need coverage..


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Was just doing some quick reading and I see the construction industry was forced to comply in Jan 2013 even if you were an SP, I don't see anything regarding SP's not in the construction industry, looks like my premiums will be rather low regardless, will call tomorrow morning to make sure I am not missing something, don't feel like getting slapped with a fine higher then what my premiums would have been for not being covered.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> Was just doing some quick reading and I see the construction industry was forced to comply in Jan 2013 even if you were an SP, I don't see anything regarding SP's not in the construction industry, looks like my premiums will be rather low regardless, will call tomorrow morning to make sure I am not missing something, don't feel like getting slapped with a fine higher then what my premiums would have been for not being covered.


How have you been working a entire year without knowing? Don't your clients require clearance certificates?


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

No I have never once been asked for a clearance cert. I always thought WSIB was to cover employees working for you, as it is to compensate them should they get hurt, well if I hurt myself that is my problem and I will have to find a way to compensate myself. 

I carry liability should I ever do damage to someones property. Since it is only me and I am the owner and technically not an employee of the company (really depends on how you argue that one) I don't see why I should have to carry WSIB if I don't want to.

I can see why it is mandatory you carry it for employee's fail to see why I should be forced to carry it for myself, no one forces me to carry health insurance.

Either way tomorrow morning I am going to register my premiums are under 500$.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> No I have never once been asked for a clearance cert. I always thought WSIB was to cover employees working for you, as it is to compensate them should they get hurt, well if I hurt myself that is my problem and I will have to find a way to compensate myself.
> 
> I carry liability should I ever do damage to someones property. Since it is only me and I am the owner and technically not an employee of the company (really depends on how you argue that one) I don't see why I should have to carry WSIB if I don't want to.
> 
> ...


It's a complete scam because wsib is hurting for money. If you only work for homeowners you don't need it anyway.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

I do a mix of work, so like I said, I am going to just go get it and write it off at tax time anyways, I do agree about it being a scam, seems like every year around Christmas bonus time they are hurting for money and find more people that need to be covered by WSIB.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Luckily we have one of the lowest rates in construction. You can keep separate records for when you are physically running wires and when you are programming. Because there is no category for security or lv we are considered electricians but only when we wire and install equipment.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> Luckily we have one of the lowest rates in construction. You can keep separate records for when you are physically running wires and when you are programming. Because there is no category for security or lv we are considered electricians but only when we wire and install equipment.


What code do you have yourself under if you don't mind me asking?

I was going to go with 4839-000 - Other Telecommunication Operations which they have listed under electrical, which I figure is closest to what I do?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

sectorsecurity said:


> what code do you have yourself under if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> I was going to go with 4839-000 - other telecommunication operations which they have listed under electrical, which i figure is closest to what i do?


4261-000


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> 4261-000


7791-001

That covers security services such as alarm monitoring, CCTV and access, and its half the cost of electrical.

http://www.wsib.on.ca/en/community/...nnel=997d10ab63f5e110VgnVCM1000000e18120aRCRD


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> 7791-001
> 
> That covers security services such as alarm monitoring, CCTV and access, and its half the cost of electrical.
> 
> http://www.wsib.on.ca/en/community/WSIB/230/ECMDetail/24348?vgnextoid=124cfcea9bfc7210VgnVCM100000449c710aRCRD&vgnextchannel=997d10ab63f5e110VgnVCM1000000e18120aRCRD


It has to be class g which is construction if you are doing pre-wire work or working on site during construction. I argued with wsib plenty about this last January...If they let you get away with it let me know! 

What class are your employees now?


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> It has to be class g which is construction if you are doing pre-wire work or working on site during construction. I argued with wsib plenty about this last January...If they let you get away with it let me know!
> 
> What class are your employees now?


I don't have any employee's thats the best part it is just me. Looks like they have it under section G as 4261-000 which is over 3$ for premium and under section I as 7791-001 which is less then 2$ premium. Sounds like they are just money hungry and default you to the highest rating they can find.

The class G states:

Also included is the installation, maintenance, or repair of the following, except when carried out in conjunction with the combined sale and installation of an electronic security system:

access control systems
automatic and/or electronic door control systems
closed circuit video monitors
computer wiring and cabling
electronic security systems
intercommunications systems.

I read that to be as long as I sell you the system and I install it I can go under class I, sounds like I will have to do a mix of both class I and G, I for when I sell and install the system, and G for when I install someone elses pre-bought or just wire it up.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> I don't have any employee's thats the best part it is just me. Looks like they have it under section G as 4261-000 which is over 3$ for premium and under section I as 7791-001 which is less then 2$ premium. Sounds like they are just money hungry and default you to the highest rating they can find.
> 
> The class G states:
> 
> ...


The woman I spoke to at wsib said if.You are running wires on a jobsite you are an electrician.

Welcome to security, you get to pay electrical wsib rates and almost 3x the insurance premiums for specialty security insurance.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> The woman I spoke to at wsib said if.You are running wires on a jobsite you are an electrician.
> 
> Welcome to security, you get to pay electrical wsib rates and almost 3x the insurance premiums for specialty security insurance.


This makes me laugh, even my GL insurance can class me as a speciality class for what we do but WSIB cant?


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> This makes me laugh, even my GL insurance can class me as a speciality class for what we do but WSIB cant?


Exactly, who's your insurance provider? I'm with toten and I'm paying 4k for 5 mil/10 mil aggregate.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

I am with Mitchell Sandham, and I am paying 1300$ for 2 mill with some failure to perform and some other stuff would have to go back and look at specifics.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

SectorSecurity said:


> I am with Mitchell Sandham, and I am paying 1300$ for 2 mill with some failure to perform and some other stuff would have to go back and look at specifics.


That's an awesome rate...sadly I'm required to have 5/10 mil coverage and you really have to bend over for it.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Inner10 said:


> That's an awesome rate...sadly I'm required to have 5/10 mil coverage and you really have to bend over for it.


I usually work smaller jobs so 2 mil is more then enough I only carry 2 mil because my alarm monitoring provider requires it. I forget what my quote was to go to 5 mil I think it was still under 2700$


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