# tiling over existing porcelain



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm going to be tiling a 1400 sq.ft floor in a coffee shop this June. The existing floor is old school chicago porcelain mini hexagons over concrete over plank sub floor. Floor has sunk and cracked over many years of neglect but now has been supported in basement by added beams and jacks. Probably not adequate in long run but nobody wants to pay to tear up and rebuild. I want to fill/feather out the worst low spots and cracks, then lay new hexagon sheets over top. Any suggestion of best material to level low spots and best thinset for this?


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

How do you know the floor is adequately supported?....:whistling

Especially with the added weight of a new floor.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Novaplan and Eco Prime grip


----------



## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

Griz asked the million $ question.

Next ? how long do they want this install to last? I'm serious here as they dont want to spend the $$ now to "fix it" are they looking at remodeling again in 4 years? 6? and you said that this wasn't a "long run solution" I can give better advise if i know these parameters


----------



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I know the building owner. He's a drunk and refuses to pay for any repairs until he's forced to. I hate the idea of doing much in this place because I see it being condemned in the future. My friend who owns the coffee shop (renting from the drunk) has definitely been spending on improvements but gut/rebuild of joists/floor is beyond reasonable investment. So, is it even worth re tiling? I'm not sure. I've let him know the floor will most likely continue to move so no guarantee the grout won't, over time. Existing floor is horrible, can't be made to look clean, health inspectors complaining etc. Sucks to install something that will most likely degrade without structural rehab.


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

This is *WAY OUT *of context for me but.....

I'm cringing and debating deleting this response......:no:

what about an el cheapo float and VCT or sheet vinyl....


----------



## Hank B. (May 6, 2013)

Some laminate. Or commercially rated vinyl plank or tile.


----------



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

That material would definitely be safer for further floor sinkage but he really wants to keep the same hex tile look of the original space. If those fools had maintained their building they'd be sitting on a gold mine. There was a vent stack that had been cut and left open from the roof into the 3rd floor ceiling. When I showed the building "super" or handyman, he told me it was a " breathing hole" and not to seal it up. Meanwhile, the plaster is raining down in all the apartments!


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

dielectricunion said:


> That material would definitely be safer for further floor sinkage but he really wants to keep the same hex tile look of the original space. If those fools had maintained their building they'd be sitting on a gold mine. There was a vent stack that had been cut and left open from the roof into the 3rd floor ceiling. When I showed the building "super" or handyman, he told me it was a " breathing hole" and not to seal it up. Meanwhile, the plaster is raining down in all the apartments!


Well if you have warned them of them issues and they won't listen just go ahead and do it. Make sure they sign a waiver on the warranty too. If they have beefed the floor up then who knows how long it will last. Use a flexible grout like QL2 and ultraflex3 they may be lucky and get away with it. I seen tile put down on much worse and survive. Sometimes they are just very lucky.


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

you really want to work with these people? I'll bet you whatever price you give them will be too much. Problem solved.


----------



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm doing the work for the business owner not the property owner. Business owner is a friend and reasonable, good guy. The people he rents the space from are the problem. My brother lives in the building and his apartment is in ruins.


----------



## GO Remodeling (Apr 5, 2005)

Then why spend the money for tile? Use checkerboard pattern of blk/wht. or white w/ green border for old time look w/vct.


----------



## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Or, even easier yet, a floating vinyl plank. You'd be suprised how good it can look and it will be an easy maintenance floor for your friend with little cash outlay by comparison.

edit: VCT requires constant maintenance - i.e. a constant cost. Figured over it's lifespan, it is the costliest flooring out there.


----------



## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

You can get vinyl tile in the old hexagon pattern. You're talking about something like this right?


----------



## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

griz said:


> what about an el cheapo float and VCT or sheet vinyl....


Carpet.


----------



## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

CO762 said:


> Carpet.


Mmmmm nothin says hygienic like sewn together pocket lint :thumbsup:


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Run away!


----------



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

dielectricunion said:


> I'm doing the work for the business owner not the property owner. Business owner is a friend and reasonable, good guy. The people he rents the space from are the problem. My brother lives in the building and his apartment is in ruins.


I would not set tile. Some type of floating floor will be better... Your friend doesn't own the building so he should be looking for something that can be torn up without harming the existing floor in case the property owner becomes a douche bag at the end of the lease.


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Personally, I would only bid with demo included


----------



## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

And install of proper substrate


----------



## Tech Dawg (Dec 13, 2010)

Its kinda worthless for him to do anything if he's not dealing directly with the property owner, imo.


----------



## dielectricunion (Feb 27, 2013)

Yeah that would definitely be optimal. A big reason for going over top of existing and not doing work on sub floor is to get the shop back open asap. I definitely would rather fully remediate subfloor and remove the 6000 lbs of tile and concrete from the equation.


----------

