# Speeding up hot mud



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I know this has been covered, but still looking for another trick to speed up Easysand setting compound even more. Other than mixing with warm water, or "dirty" water (from cleaning the mud pan), are there any other ways to speed it up?

When mixing a pan of it, every so often my stuff does set up way faster, but I can't pin down what I'm doing to get that effect. I work with 5 or 20 most of the time. 

My method is powder into pan first, then tap water, then "slice it in" with a 6" knife, then fold & mash....and add powder or water to adjust as necessary. Any other tricks?

(Come to think of it now, it might be something like mix it thick like pizza dough, then thin it a bit and get moving. I'll have to test that.)


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I find If I stand on one foot and close my left eye things speed up fairly well.


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## SuperiorHIP (Aug 15, 2010)

You can use 20 minute instead of 45 minute or 5 minute if you need even faster. I always use hot water, helps it set up and makes it mix much easier.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

SuperiorHIP said:


> You can use 20 minute instead of 45 minute or 5 minute if you need even faster. I always use hot water, helps it set up and makes it mix much easier.


Sure, but I'm trying to figure out if mixing one way vs. another (and how water is added) speeds up the setting.


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

What's the powder stuff in a small cardboard box - accelerator ?
Haven't seen it in years but a pinch or two would do wonders.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

That was fast..


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I put the water in first then the powder. Mixes up much better that way.


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

We Fix Houses said:


> What's the powder stuff in a small cardboard box - accelerator ?
> Haven't seen it in years but a pinch or two would do wonders.


I just looked up plaster accelerators. No comments on using it in hot mud from you DW guys ? Says it makes the crystals form more rapidly.

USG / Nat'l has it but their lit doesn't say about using in products other than lime - plaster.

I'm sure this is what I used to use. Have to give their tech dept a call ?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Water first for me too. I can get it almost perfect by eye everytime from experience. 

They still sell accelerator at my dw supply house. I dont think anyone buys it because the boxes are dusty..


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

You can't force dry ez sand , it will crack . For minor dings , I use ez sand , and it dries in 20 mins. Larger and to embed tape , I use durabond 20. Dries pretty fast , if you want it faster , use a heat gun . Durabond 20 can be forced dried and will not crack on you .


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

Mix it and go do another project, to speed it up leave your best knife in the bucket

I guarandamtee you it's set up quicker than you thought it would


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

FRAME2FINISH said:


> Mix it and go do another project, to speed it up leave your best knife in the bucket
> 
> I guarandamtee you it's set up quicker than you thought it would


True.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

How much faster than 5min do you need?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Eric K said:


> How much faster than 5min do you need?


Yeah, yeah, I know. But 5 doesn't always set in 5, sometimes it takes a bit longer...like when I need to skim it a bit more and there's little else left to do. 

And if I don't have 5 on hand, I may want 20 to be faster.


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## Eric K (Nov 24, 2005)

Hot water. Hotter faster I think


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Get a small fan like the cordless makita. Cool airflow over the compound will dry it out nice and quick without shrinking it too fast. Then put a coat of finish compound and leave the fan on it again. As long as the finsh compound is a thin enough coat it will take less than 30mins in total if your just doing a small patch.


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## underwoodhi (Feb 14, 2013)

We Fix Houses said:


> What's the powder stuff in a small cardboard box - accelerator ?
> Haven't seen it in years but a pinch or two would do wonders.


Baking soda?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Drywall not a coke cut. Are you a painter by chance? :detective:


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Obviously the biggest thing is HOT water but I have also found that it makes a huge difference on how much you mix it. For me mixing it with a knife in a pan takes way longer to set up vs using a 2 gal bucket with a cordless drill and small paint mixer. 

I was doing a job using 90 and it was taking forever for it to set up, I started mixing it more thoroughly and it decreased the set up time quite a bit. I even wonder sometimes if the mix is made weaker by hand mixing...


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## underwoodhi (Feb 14, 2013)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Drywall not a coke cut. Are you a painter by chance? :detective:


No, not a painter. Well I am painting today so I don't know what to say! 
Baking soda does help Portland products set more quickly, but never tried it in my dw mud. 

Hence the "?"


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

If you dont mind crazy shrinkage and cracking then a heat gun works great!


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## 11678 (Jan 11, 2007)

USG rep told me contents separate and settle during transit. Dry mix whole bag before using part of. I keep mine in 3.5 gal pails, mix then scoop out with 1 cup aluminum scoop. Water in pan first.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Not sure if you are asking how to speed up drying for sandability. I make an effort to mud it clean enough, no lines, so I can add cold mud on shortly after without having to sand any of the hot mud. Then I put a heater or a fan on the cold mud for same day mud, tape, and sanding.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

11678 said:


> USG rep told me contents separate and settle during transit. Dry mix whole bag before using part of. I keep mine in 3.5 gal pails, mix then scoop out with 1 cup aluminum scoop. Water in pan first.


That seems to make sense and might explain another observation. Sometimes the smell when mixing the compound is stronger than other times. Maybe that's when there's more active ingredient in the mix. And that might be when it seems to harden quicker.

You might be onto something.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

From USG:

USG™ Gypsum Accelerator (High Strength) will shorten the setting time when added to EASY SAND Joint
Accelerator Compound. USG Gypsum Accelerator should be sprinkled in dry form into the mixed compound. For hand
mixing, dry accelerator can be added either to the dry mix or mixed compound. Never add USG Gypsum
Accelerator directly to water or mix it with water to form.

Look at this link and scroll down to the table.

http://www.usg.com/rc/data-submitta...-joint-compounds-easy-sand-submittal-J621.pdf


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## 11678 (Jan 11, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> From USG:
> 
> USG™ Gypsum Accelerator (High Strength) will shorten the setting time when added to EASY SAND Joint
> Accelerator Compound. USG Gypsum Accelerator should be sprinkled in dry form into the mixed compound. For hand
> ...


 If you read through this there are a few key points....
"next day decorating", setting times have a "range", and shelf life is 6 months.
Also "setting" and "drying" are two different animals. Setting is the curing by chemical reaction , drying the removal of moisture by evaporation.

Coming from a body shop painter background, it two characteristics of auto paint. Enamels "cure" by oxidation (contact with air) while lacquers "dry" by evaporation of vehicle (lacquer thinner).


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## Munanbak (Jan 19, 2011)

Put it on thinner. or mix some 5 with 20. 12 minute mud is where it's at.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

11678 said:


> If you read through this there are a few key points....
> "next day decorating", setting times have a "range", and shelf life is 6 months.


Yup. Also, those points refer to Easysand, not the accelerator in particular.


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## 11678 (Jan 11, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> Yup. Also, those points refer to Easysand, not the accelerator in particular.


True, but me thinks the accelerator will speed up the "set" not the "dry".


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

11678 said:


> True, but me thinks the accelerator will speed up the "set" not the "dry".


Yes. So if we solve that, we're in business. Fans, heat gun...anything else?


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## 11678 (Jan 11, 2007)

MarkJames said:


> Yes. So if we solve that, we're in business. Fans, heat gun...anything else?


 Time.


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## ToolNut (Aug 9, 2012)

Alum if you can't find the accelerator.


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## 11678 (Jan 11, 2007)

Be careful ! 
http://www.usg.com/rc/msds/plasters...ccelerator-alum-catalyst-msds-en-53630001.pdf


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> Yes. So if we solve that, we're in business. Fans, heat gun...anything else?


Mixing at a high rpm will help set it off quicker too. :thumbsup:


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

I think you need to get familiar with the characteristics of the brands of quickset you are working with. I believe the water your using plays a big role. Well, utility dept., rain,pond,river,melted snow, toilet tank.

I've only dealt with three brands in my career and have only been using Nat. Gyp. Quickset The last thirteen yrs. 

I found the USG to be erratic on its set times. Mostly too fast. But that was a long time ago and maybe it was just me.:whistling 

Try different brands and you may like one better than the other.

No additives for me. Straight up w/clean water.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

MarkJames said:


> I'm trying to figure out if mixing one way vs. another (and how water is added) speeds up the setting.


I think so. I use the 5 min. most of the time and I get the shortest setup time when I use warm water, mix it "soupy", and then gradually add more dry mud to the pan. Once it reaches the point to where it reaches the consistency of butter, I let it sit for about a minute and then it starts to thicken up like peanut butter.

What I figured out is that if I initially make the mix too dry and then start adding water to it, I never seem to get enough water into the mud because I am mixing it to the consistency that I want rather than letting it dry or set up in the pan first.


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> I know this has been covered, but still looking for another trick to speed up Easysand setting compound even more. Other than mixing with warm water, or "dirty" water (from cleaning the mud pan), are there any other ways to speed it up?
> 
> When mixing a pan of it, every so often my stuff does set up way faster, but I can't pin down what I'm doing to get that effect. I work with 5 or 20 most of the time.
> 
> ...


if you want it do dry faster on the spot use a blow dryer:whistling


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> My method is powder into pan first, then tap water


Water first is the correct way to mix. If you're mixing a whole bag in a bucket do you dump all the powder in first?

Just say'n.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

FWIW, I've heard plaster of Paris will speed set, but I haven't tried it.

Mixing (at least in a pan) does seem to make a difference to me. This is just an observation, but mixing stiff, then adding water after a short time and remixing does seem to slow setting, similar to mortars. Mixing, then remixing after a few minutes (no water added) also seems to slow setting, or at least extend workability. I'll do this with my knife if I'm part way through the pan and it's getting too stiff. Also, mixing loose then adding more EZsand vs mixing stiff and adding more water seems to make a difference. 

For a half to full pan, I'll put the water in first. For small amounts, I'll put the EZ sand in first and measure the water - easier for me to avoid having too much waste on small patches. Bucket mixing it's water first always - too many lumps otherwise. On the otherhand, if you're using the old traditional plaster mixing method, it's a pile with a depression in it that you pour the water into, then cut the water in.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Big Shoe said:


> Water first is the correct way to mix. If you're mixing a whole bag in a bucket do you dump all the powder in first?
> 
> Just say'n.


I put water in first then add powder and mix to a very thick consistency. I think this helps ensure that any small clumps of dry powder are broken up. Then add water as needed.


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

MarkJames said:


> Huh? Cake mixer? What kind?
> 
> Wonder what that magic bullet (tv infomercial) would do for it?


I made this tool the other day to mix duradond in my pan
1"1/2 spade and torched a hole in it


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