# need some advice on a touchy situation



## welterweight (Nov 10, 2009)

one thing that sends me through the roof is when a customer tells me my installers left a mess. i try everything to avoid it but every now and then, the customer needs to tell them to clean up or even move back furniture. ridiculous. that said, they are good installers. the other issue that is touchy is this: a customer complained that my installers weremspeaking spanish to each other. in a way, i dont blame her. they should speak friggin english when they are in someones home. i have to find a sensitive way to tell them but i dont think there is a sensitive way. im just going to tell them, " look, we need to speak english while we arenin the home" . is this a bit insensitive? i just think they need to be told straight up without any bs political correctness.
im more pissed off about the mess. totally unacceptabe.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

As for cleaning up, that is definitely something you can make them do. I tend to be a whirlwind of mess while working, but I do clean up every day before heading home. I used to be a bit less that way, to say the least.

As for making them speak English on the job, that could be a sticky one. Are these employees or sub's. If sub's you really can't tell them how to do a job, so that may also mean how to speak on the job. You might be able to tell them that it makes some customers uncomfortable.

If they are employees, I would be afraid of the ACLU or other like minded entity taking you to court for trampling on their borrowed from us rights. They may be able to make a discrimination case against you. I suppose it depends on the relationship you have with them.

However, like any advice you get online, I am probably full of crap. I suggest you talk to a lawyer.


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## carpentershane (Feb 9, 2009)

Mess? Valid complaint....

Speaking Spanish? Tell the HO that this is their mother tongue and that they can best communicate and thus most efficiently complete their tasks when speaking Spanish. HO should not be so insecure that they are suspicious of another person speaking a language other than english... 


Neither should they be so ethnocentric....

My 2 cents worth


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## robert c1 (Mar 11, 2007)

I don't think she's out of line to complain. I think it's rude to speak Spanish in front of someone that doesn't speak it. 

I also highly doubt you can change their behavior while your not there. 
You can try having a word with them, but it's probably either live with their shortcomings or find a new installer.


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## bconley (Mar 8, 2009)

Talk to the guys, you're the boss. Tell them what you need them to do and how you need them to act and why, "hey I'm getting some complaints from the customers, can you help me out here?"
What are they installing?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Have you hired them because they are the best, or because they are the lowest price? No matter which way you answer that question, it will settle your problems.


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## welterweight (Nov 10, 2009)

they've been with me along time and are very good installers, i also pay them more due to their skill level. i Never use cheap labor. if i did, i would be out of business.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

Spanish speaking=cheap labor, IMO. Never seen anything to change my mind on that one yet.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

welterweight said:


> they've been with me along time and are very good installers, i also pay them more due to their skill level. i Never use cheap labor. if i did, i would be out of business.


So that still doesn't answer the question if their subs or not...


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Hire Americans.Personally I would fire your company if you sent people to my house that could or would not speak English.


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## shelf guy (Mar 18, 2007)

I would have no problem telling them to speak English when in earshot of the customer.


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## delhamas (Feb 8, 2011)

I don't think there is any problem telling an employee to speak English in a customer's home.

VinylHanger, are you serious? You think someone can sue you because you require them to speak English while on a job? 


I understand that customers may feel uncomfortable with people in their home that they cannot understand.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I have to agree with the above quote. if i had an american guy come round and sell me a product/service and tell me about how much better he is for what ever reason and a bunch of mexicans turned up to do the work i would send them away. I dont care how good they think they are. Your better off putting americans into work. I aint once seen a mexican do a good job. Im not saying they all do bad work but its rare to find ones that do a good job.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

summithomeinc said:


> Hire Americans.Personally I would fire your company if you sent people to my house that could or would not speak English.


I have to agree with this.


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

They are highly paid. Why are they leaving a mess behind? Why is that? Were these two fine non english speaking labors not trained on cleanup? Something is not adding up here.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

So there are no Spanish speaking American's? I live on the Quebec border so lots of tradesmen speak french as their first language, being bilingual is a good skill to have here.

Leaving a mess is inexcusable.


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## welterweight (Nov 10, 2009)

guys
they speak english, they just sometimes speak spanish on the job site and i need to tell them that cant happen anymore. further, as i said earlier, they dont leave a mess all the time, every now and then. still unacceptable but my guys are not cheap labor. i know plenty of american workers who cant put a sentence together even without their hangover.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

welterweight said:


> guys
> they speak english, they just sometimes speak spanish on the job site and i need to tell them that cant happen anymore. further, as i said earlier, they dont leave a mess all the time, every now and then. still unacceptable but my guys are not cheap labor. i know plenty of american workers who cant put a sentence together even without their hangover.


I would tell them how it was going to be. ONE time. Then Id tell em to hit the road if it happened again. If you have allready told them once. I'd fire them and get guys that can follow directions..in english


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

delhamas said:


> VinylHanger, are you serious? You think someone can sue you because you require them to speak English while on a job? .


I did post the disclaimer that I may be full of crap.

With that said, it doesn't take much to be drug into a lawsuit these days. Lots of groups out there looking to make a quick settlement.

This is just the first page on Yahoo search. Specifics not withstanding, you get the idea.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312977,00.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-11-27/local/me-16691_1_salvation-army

http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/watch-your-language-can-business

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=6445581


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## Gary H (Dec 10, 2008)

This is tough one. It looks to be a very fine line between what you want as a employer and what the law says.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

CrpntrFrk said:


> So in an Atheist house the white guys have to take off the crosses on their chains when working on that said home?


Why not? If a HO requests it?


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

But why do they have to be white guys?


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

summithomeinc said:


> Why not? If a HO requests it?


Because its freedom of speech regardless on whos property you are...try telling me to take off my cross...just try...next time you see me will be the court.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Workers speaking amongst themselves should be free to speak in whatever manner makes them the most efficient. Remember guys, we talk in technical jargon to each other all the time in front of the customers. As long as the ho hears a few "the's and and's" in our conversation they apparently feel better.

I have several subs who speak perfect English but speak other languages with their helpers. The KNOW never to leave at least someone who can't communicate with the ho, even for 5 minutes. Yes, RS will flip out!:laughing:

As long as the OP's employees are tax contributors and legal, then the only issue I would take exception to as a customer would be if there was NOBODY there that could communicate with the customer directly in English. That situation I don't tolerate as a GC, nor would I as a customer.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

TheItalian204 said:


> Because its freedom of speech regardless on whos property you are...try telling me to take off my cross...just try...next time you see me will be the court.


Couldn't you attempt turning the job down before turning the potential Atheist customer into a pile of leftover rage?


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TheItalian204 said:


> Because its freedom of speech regardless on whos property you are...try telling me to take off my cross...just try...next time you see me will be the court.


I have very strong christian beliefs. I would have no problem taking off a cross. It's jewlery. It's also their house. To sue someone over that is ridiculous.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

summithomeinc said:


> Why not? If a HO requests it?


First Amendment......duh!


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

summithomeinc said:


> I have very strong christian beliefs. I would have no problem taking off a cross. It's jewlery. It's also their house. To sue someone over that is ridiculous.


No its not summit...its free country...I am not in Saudi Arabia...if you ask I will hide my cross under my shirt(and I never have it outside of shirt on first place).

But as matter of fact what language I speak and what religion I practise is my personal business that has nothing to do with job on hands...

Most HO have common sense not to touch subjects like that..

Sueing for that is ridiculous? why is that? is sueing for being discriminated on religious base is ridiculous?


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

summithomeinc said:


> But why do they have to be white guys?


Because of comments made on this thread about race. It helps those who choose to live life in the fog.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TheItalian204 said:


> No its not summit...its free country...I am not in Saudi Arabia...if you ask I will hide my cross under my shirt(and I never have it outside of shirt on first place).
> 
> But as matter of fact what language I speak and what religion I practise is my personal business that has nothing to do with job on hands...
> 
> ...


I say it's ridiculous because there are so many other solutions. You mentioned a good on yourself. By keeping your cross under your shirt you solve the problem. Yes it is a free country. Having freedom also means having the common sense to exercise that freedom. I have been to homes that they would only let my wife inside to work. I don't know what religion they were but their request for me to stay outside was religion based. I was not offended at all. That's their belief and I'm fine with it. It was THEIR HOME. If I came to your home I would abide by your wishes as well.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

CrpntrFrk said:


> Because of comments made on this thread about race. It helps those who choose to live life in the fog.


This thread has nothing to do with race.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

I have a neighbor who is an attractive, shapely woman in her late 30's but could pass for about 25. About a year ago, she and her husband were having some work done on their home (basically, an outdoor kitchen and replacing a patio cover with a project cost of around $15,000). She is a stay-at-home mom so was there during all the construction. On the occasions when she would go outside (so the dog could do its thing) she would say Hi to the workers and they would say Hi back and then start speaking Spanish to one another. She would ignore them, pretending not to understand a word. But she speaks six languages fluently. But she didn't say a word at the time. When the owner of the construction company came by to check on the work later that afternoon, she went outside with him and very calmly repeated everything thing they had said about what they wanted to do with her (I think you get the idea) in perfect Spanish and then translated it into English for the owner. Then she just walked back into the house. The owner had everyone pack up and leave. The next day, three different guys showed up and subsequently finshed the project over the next couple of days. The replacements were all Hispanic but never uttered a word in anything other than English.

Apparently, the owner never had the nerve to send them a bill.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> I have been to homes that they would only let my wife inside to work.


Are you serious? 

That almost reminds me of when I am asked by certain people to leave my shoes outside for religious purposes. I always wear shoe protectors on service calls. Smart electricians diagnosing problems with live electric DO NOT work without rubber soles....PERIOD. I can count 2 times where I just left. Most times, they "get it".


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

summithomeinc said:


> I say it's ridiculous because there are so many other solutions. You mentioned a good on yourself. By keeping your cross under your shirt you solve the problem. Yes it is a free country. Having freedom also means having the common sense to exercise that freedom. I have been to homes that they would only let my wife inside to work. I don't know what religion they were but their request for me to stay outside was religion based. I was not offended at all. That's their belief and I'm fine with it. It was THEIR HOME. If I came to your home I would abide by your wishes as well.


I somewhat agree with you.

If homeowner would ask me to take my chain with cross off event though its under my shirt he would have lawsuit coming.

I dont prefer to flash my religious beliefs though I am highly religious myself(catholic family,finished catholic school,go to church etc).

I just think there are ways to minimize tension,but as I mentioned above if HO requests to take off my chain even though he cant see anything,he would have lawsuit on hands.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

This is interesting. Summit will go to great lengths for the HO. He sees it as "their home". (hope I'm not putting words in your mouth)

I, on the other hand see it firstly as a "job site". 

Example - I'm doing an addition right now, it's a work site. Dangerous, stay out. I know the HO goes in there every night. But it's not yet part of "their home".

Just interesting, the different perspective here.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> That almost reminds me of when I am asked by certain people to leave my shoes outside for religious purposes. I always wear shoe protectors on service calls. Smart electricians diagnosing problems with live electric DO NOT work without rubber soles....PERIOD. I can count 2 times where I just left. Most times, they "get it".


I am serious. I charged for both of us though. I do take my shoes off when asked. If I was in your situation I would politely explain why booties or shoe protectors or whatever would have to be good enough.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm not sure how to explain it but the easiest way is to say my home is my castle. If you come to my home you will give me the respect I deserve in my home, around my home, anywhere on my property. I will put up with many things away from my home that would never fly at my house. Another way would be to say that when I am at my house I am the absolute boss. No negotiating. so since I feel that way at my home I try to extend the respect I want to my customers at their home. I try to treat them the way I would want to be treated if they came into my home.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

carpentershane said:


> Mess? Valid complaint....
> Speaking Spanish? Tell the HO that this is their mother tongue and that they can best communicate and thus most efficiently complete their tasks when speaking Spanish. HO should not be so insecure that they are suspicious of another person speaking a language other than english...
> Neither should they be so ethnocentric....
> My 2 cents worth


Welcome to America, now learn the language!



summithomeinc said:


> Hire Americans.Personally I would fire your company if you sent people to my house that could or would not speak English.


At home or in the park with friends speak what ever you want. But as a professional speak the language of the land and if you don't want assimilate go home? 



Inner10 said:


> So there are no Spanish speaking American's? I live on the Quebec border so lots of tradesmen speak french as their first language, being bilingual is a good skill to have here.


Yes there are a lot of Spanish speaking but all of our road sings are in English so learn it! 



Dmitry said:


> I speak Russian to my Russian co-workers in any home, the only exception is when I discuss something over with the client and the employees at the same time, making sure we are on the same page.
> They speak English fluently and its not a problem but still feels pretty ****ing weird when I have to speak English to them.
> As for craftsmanship I think it's pretty tetarded to underestimate someone's skills based on his ethnicity or language skills.


The only thing retarded it you spelling retarded with a t:laughing: if everyone spoke a different language we would have the tower of babble:blink:


J F said:


> AGAIN...for the love of god, can you PLEASE use some paragraph spacing and maybe as a bonus, some punctuation? Good god, your installers probably speak better English than you write.
> 
> It's easy, like this:
> 
> :laughing:


For some reason this doesn't phase me:no:



carpentershane said:


> The HO is paying to have a job accomplished- not to have a heart to heart conversation with the installers. I see the HO as interfering with your guys getting their jobs done-
> 
> Much of the comments on here smack of blatant racial prejudice- i.e. just because someone speaks spanish they are automatically doing half ass work for peanuts.
> 
> ...


 Hey I don't care what color they are, white black yellow or plaid just learn the language. Oh but we can speak English:no: to speak English is to think English and if you speak a foreign language first you are ESL person. 



TxElectrician said:


> I am not bilingual. Have no desire to be. If I am paying someone - either an employee or someone that comes to work on my home - they will speak english or look for somewhere else to work.
> What they speak when I am not paying them is of no concern to me.


 That's it, do what your paid to do:whistling



Dmitry said:


> So let me get this right, we sign a contract and I start doing the job and I speak Russian to my guys you come over and ask me to speak English or you fire me?And if you do fire me because of that? Guess what happens next-I'll sue the **** out of you!


 So why are you here??? Why don't you stay in Russia? Do you send money to Russia??



bconley said:


> A lot of the time only one guy will have fluencey in English, so if you want everyone on the job to understand what they are to do let them communicate however they want.
> 
> Don't worry about it, most of the time they are just making fun of how much of a bigot you and the home owner are.


By the way you phrase this you are a ESL person:laughing: my wife dose it the same way:thumbsup:

Yea and now you are saying what a a$$whole DWB is but in my house we speak a foreign language and outside the house we speak English unless we are in that community. I think it's funn when I hear a foreign language in public work place to start speaking a foreign language to them and look at the funny look on their face when they can't understand:laughing: About skin or hair color that's just stupid. When I look around I see when a foreign language is spoke on the job site is that everyone speaks it therefor with out knowing this foreign language you don't work there, talk about racism!


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

txgencon said:


> I have a neighbor who is an attractive, shapely woman in her late 30's but could pass for about 25. About a year ago, she and her husband were having some work done on their home (basically, an outdoor kitchen and replacing a patio cover with a project cost of around $15,000). She is a stay-at-home mom so was there during all the construction. On the occasions when she would go outside (so the dog could do its thing) she would say Hi to the workers and they would say Hi back and then start speaking Spanish to one another. She would ignore them, pretending not to understand a word. But she speaks six languages fluently. But she didn't say a word at the time. When the owner of the construction company came by to check on the work later that afternoon, she went outside with him and very calmly repeated everything thing they had said about what they wanted to do with her (I think you get the idea) in perfect Spanish and then translated it into English for the owner. Then she just walked back into the house. The owner had everyone pack up and leave. The next day, three different guys showed up and subsequently finshed the project over the next couple of days. The replacements were all Hispanic but never uttered a word in anything other than English.
> 
> Apparently, the owner never had the nerve to send them a bill.


This is the GCs failure. What kind of guys are you hiring. Exactly the kind of people I don't want anywhere near my job sites.

How about some paragraphing please. Where's JF when you need him?


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> I am serious. I charged for both of us though.


Wow! If they willing to pay you to sit outside, I guess I want a copy of your customer list! :clap:

That is *true* customer service! But what about carrying things in, deliveries, etc. That must be more than awkward for you.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

katoman;1430488 Where's JF when you need him?[/QUOTE said:


>


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Wow! If they willing to pay you to sit outside, I guess I want a copy of your customer list! :clap:
> 
> That is *true* customer service! But what about carrying things in, deliveries, etc. That must be more than awkward for you.


The tenant wanted me to stay out. The Property Mgmt. Co. paid the bill. I've seen it all with tenants...Maybe I should start a new thread.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

What? JFs left to get stoned? What the heck is going on here anyways. 

There's about 3 or 4 different things going on in this thread. 

And Summit - it might be your house, but it's MY job site. So stay out till it's done. :laughing:


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## KellyD&B (May 4, 2009)

As long as they can communicate with the HO in English and they communicate with me then they can speak to each other in any language they want. Im not about to tell someone to stop speaking their own language...


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

summithomeinc said:


> This thread has nothing to do with race.


I never said this thread is about race but there sure are some racist comments in it. Good catch:thumbsup:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

katoman said:


> What? JFs left to get stoned? What the heck is going on here anyways.
> 
> There's about 3 or 4 different things going on in this thread.
> 
> And Summit - it might be your house, but it's MY job site. So stay out till it's done. :laughing:


Good thing I have a broad range of skills. I think I would be the customer from hel*. Stay out my azz.:laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

katoman said:


> What? JFs left to get stoned? What the heck is going on here anyways.
> 
> There's about 3 or 4 different things going on in this thread.
> 
> And Summit - it might be your house, but it's MY job site. So stay out till it's done. :laughing:


I think Kato has a great point here, A big difference between a small in house job and the complete take over where the HO is booted out:laughing:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> The tenant wanted me to stay out. The Property Mgmt. Co. paid the bill. I've seen it all with tenants...Maybe I should start a new thread.


If the PM company only knew. Yeah, we might have hijacked this thread a little on that one.

OK, back to "should you require all your employees to speak English to each other":laughing:

With the mod hat on though, please keep this thread tame enough to stay out of P&R. Thanks.:thumbsup:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> I think Kato has a great point here, A big difference between a small in house job and the complete take over where the HO is booted out:laughing:


Probably has a little to do with the different point of view. Many jobs I am only there for an hour to 3 hours. However I also do larger projects. Started a job Monday I'll be there another 3 maybe 4 days.


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

welterweight said:


> one thing that sends me through the roof is when a customer tells me my installers left a mess. i try everything to avoid it but every now and then, the customer needs to tell them to clean up or even move back furniture. ridiculous. that said, they are good installers. the other issue that is touchy is this: a customer complained that my installers weremspeaking spanish to each other. in a way, *i dont blame her*. they should speak friggin english when they are in someones home. i have to find a sensitive way to tell them but i dont think there is a sensitive way. im just going to tell them, " look, we need to speak english while we arenin the home" . is this a bit insensitive? i just think they need to be told straight up without any bs political correctness.
> im more pissed off about the mess. totally unacceptabe.





Tinstaafl said:


> Guys, back on track. Per the OP, communication is not a problem with his workers; they can and do speak English.
> 
> Prejudice and/or discrimination is entirely what this thread is about, and the real question is whether it's appropriate to kowtow to the client's prejudice/paranoia despite the fact that presumably he contracted with you (and by proxy, your workers) in order to have a job done properly and in a timely manner.
> 
> Is that likely to be the case if you place awkward constraints upon their normal methodology?


Playing catch up on this thread. I'm on page four. :blink:
But, I think one thing that is key in post #1, is that the customer complaining is a female. I don't know if she is there by herself or not. But I do know that it is a whole different world from the perspective of a female in today's world. No matter what race you are. Maybe she was feeling a little uncomfortable with a couple of guy's in her home in the first place and not knowing if they were talking about her might have made her even more uncomfortable. I could understand that.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Playing catch up on this thread. I'm on page four. :blink:
> But, I think one thing that is key in post #1, is that the customer complaining is a female. I don't know if she is there by herself or not. But I do know that it is a whole different world from the perspective of a female in today's world no matter what race you are. Maybe she was feeling a little uncomfortable with a couple of guy's in her home in the first place and not knowing if they were talking about her might have made her even more uncomfortable. I could understand that.


Good point. My wife has gotten many jobs simply because many women don't want strange men in their home while they are there alone. And I agree a womens point of view is always WAY different:laughing:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

txgencon said:


> she went outside with him and very calmly repeated everything thing they had said about what they wanted to do with her (I think you get the idea) in perfect Spanish and then translated it into English for the owner.


I was in a Vietnamese noodle shop last week, got my bowl of noodles and sat down to eat. I was the only person there except for one Vietnamese man sitting 3 tables over and the counter guy came out and started talking Vietnamese with him. I can not speak Vietamese:no: but know a bit. As they were speaking my ears started to cringe as tho they were hearing bad things:blink: As I got up to but my tray on the front counter and leave the young guy that served me said have a nice day and by in English and I being a nice guy said the same thing back to him in Vietnamese, well the look on his face was and he said " Oh I didn't know you speak Vietnamese, I'm sorry my bad:blink:. Although I don't know what they were saying I do know it was about me


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Playing catch up on this thread. I'm on page four. :blink:
> But, I think one thing that is key in post #1, is that the customer complaining is a female. I don't know if she is there by herself or not. But I do know that it is a whole different world from the perspective of a female in today's world. No matter what race you are. Maybe she was feeling a little uncomfortable with a couple of guy's in her home in the first place and not knowing if they were talking about her might have made her even more uncomfortable. I could understand that.


WHERE IS THE GC ON THIS JOB? No way would I have my customer feeling ill at ease due to whomever is on the site. Control your people guys. 

There can only be ONE. And it's me. My customer, (to whom I am responsible to) my job, my way. Keep control of your people. 

I just re-read that, I sound like a tyrant


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

WoW 6 pages in 8 hours:clap: This thread is on fire:thumbsup:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

katoman said:


> WHERE IS THE GC ON THIS JOB? No way would I have my customer feeling ill at ease due to whomever is on the site. Control your people guys.
> 
> There can only be ONE. And it's me. My customer, (to whom I am responsible to) my job, my way. Keep control of your people.
> 
> I just re-read that, I sound like a tyrant


These types of companies don't have a role playing GC. They sit in the office, run the business and do estimates. The subs do all the work. That's my assumption anyways and the way they run around here.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> Good point. My wife has gotten many jobs simply because many women don't want strange men in their home while they are there alone. And I agree a womens point of view is always WAY different:laughing:


I always give my female customers a big hug on our first meeting. Then I'm no longer a stranger. :laughing:


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

katoman said:


> What? JFs left to get stoned? What the heck is going on here anyways.
> 
> There's about 3 or 4 different things going on in this thread.
> 
> And Summit - it might be your house, but it's MY job site. So stay out till it's done. :laughing:


Let's add another wing to this thread....

Try that "my job" thing with the EPA.

Oh, that's right you are in canuck land. :laughing:


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

katoman said:


> I just re-read that, I sound like a tyrant


Not at all John. I feel the same.

When I even leave a sub on a job, they MUST be able to communicate with the homeowner.

I know ALL my subs and their employees, but the HO has my cell phone number which I always answer in case of an issue too.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Sir Mixalot said:


> But, I think one thing that is key in post #1, is that the customer complaining is a female.


Good point Paul; I think everyone missed that. :laughing:

So maybe we should be discussing equal rights for women? :whistling


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

katoman said:


> I always give my female customers a big hug on our first meeting. Then I'm no longer a stranger. :laughing:


You must be related to my wife. We can't go anywhere without her hugging 2-3 people. I quit asking who they were a long time ago. She must have 150 cousins..


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## Ninjaframer (May 28, 2011)

CrpntrFrk said:


> No hard feelings here. Just having a discussion....
> 
> So what if she wanted you to work in a thong? I probably should not have used that as an example because of derailing but.....
> 
> I think rselectric1 has it down.


I believe its called a banana hammock when a guys wearing it.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

CrpntrFrk said:


> No hard feelings here. Just having a discussion....
> 
> So what if she wanted you to work in a thong? I probably should not have used that as an example because of derailing but.....
> 
> I think rselectric1 has it down.


No one would want to see me in a thong I promise:laughing:
I consider it a privelage to be in a customers home and I try to treat them with respect. Telling a HO that their concerns have no basis because of a contract, or it's MY job, or any other reason is crazy to me. as far as rs post if the HO were to say that talk was offensive then I would try my best to speak in language they could understand or at a volume they couldn't hear. My point is what really matters is the HO point of veiw not ours. They are the ones that invited us into their hom and they are the ones paying our bills. They deserve respect. And every once in while a little coddling.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

loneframer said:


> We have no business *judging* the HO or questioning the reasons for her concerns. The bottom line is, how is it going to be handled?


I'd say that's a judgement call. :laughing:

And the reason for the OP. :thumbsup:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Ninjaframer said:


> I believe its called a banana hammock when a guys wearing it.


Oh gosh no pics please


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> Hey Riz, go cut me a 79 and a CH jack stud. If you see that turd hurder, tell him he forgot the sillcock next to the GFCI. Tell that sparky that he needs to replace that GFCI raceway with rigid and rip out that EMT. The BI will red tag this place if he doesn't.
> 
> Just an example of the way we talk. This SHOULD be construed as foreign to a typical homeowner.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it is or it isn't. I'm saying if it makes the HO uncomfortable, it should be addressed in some manner.

To get a signed contract is a privilege, especially in the current state of the economy. To take such an offensive stance against the person who has entrusted not only their home to me, but their piece of mind as well will speak volumes to the HO. 

Everybody will handle such a situation differently. That's what separates all of us in the competition to secure work. The reality is, most HOs don't know WTF a good job looks like, but they know whether or not they feel like they've been treated respectfully.


When the time comes to sink or swim, the guy who delivers both has the upper hand.


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## txgencon (Jan 4, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> Hey Riz, go cut me a 79 and a CH jack stud. If you see that turd hurder, tell him he forgot the sillcock next to the GFCI. Tell that sparky that he needs to replace that GFCI raceway with rigid and rip out that EMT. The BI will red tag this place if he doesn't.
> 
> Just an example of the way we talk. This SHOULD be construed as foreign to a typical homeowner.
> 
> ...


Should or could?


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

I've read most of the posts in this thread and I think 95% of you don't really have a clue what is going on. Let me see if I can break it down. 

Female homeowner is home alone with 2 male workers carpentering the hell out of some wood  all the while speaking quickly and in a language that she doesn't understand while shooting her looks and laughing or giggling. In the homeowners mind they could be talking about raping her, killing her, or other such things and she doesn't have a clue.

I fully think she is within her rights to request english, kind of hard to plot harm to someone in front of them while speaking a language they understand.


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

summithomeinc said:


> No one would want to see me in a thong I promise:laughing:
> I consider it a privelage to be in a customers home and I try to treat them with respect. Telling a HO that their concerns have no basis because of a contract, or it's MY job, or any other reason is crazy to me. as far as rs post if the HO were to say that talk was offensive then I would try my best to speak in language they could understand or at a volume they couldn't hear. My point is what really matters is the HO point of veiw not ours. They are the ones that invited us into their hom and they are the ones paying our bills. They deserve respect. And every once in while a little coddling.


Ok Yes respect. Of course they deserve respect. Yes it is their home. But their home becomes our workplace and they need to respect that we are doing our best for them as timely as possible so we can move on and do the same for others. If that means that our workers talk to each other in Spanish so be it. 

They also need to respect that they (HO) are privileged to have us in their homes so they need to let us do our job. 

Here is a good one. A deaf person on the crew ......can only communicate in sign language. Well? It's not quite English is it? Do they still have the right to say " The guy with the talking hands is creeping me out with that sign stuff. Tell him to knock it off"?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

RobertCDF said:


> Female homeowner is home alone with 2 male workers carpentering the hell out of some wood  all the while speaking quickly and in a language that she doesn't understand while shooting her looks and laughing or giggling.


There is absolutely nothing in the OP to substantiate that scenario.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

summithomeinc said:


> Telling a HO that their concerns have no basis because of a contract, or it's MY job, or any other reason is crazy to me. as far as rs post if the HO were to say that talk was offensive then I would try my best to speak in language they could understand or at a volume they couldn't hear. My point is what really matters is the HO point of veiw not ours. They are the ones that invited us into their hom and they are the ones paying our bills. They deserve respect. And every once in while a little coddling.


Absolutely agreed. I work in high end homes.

If we were to list all the things that I feel should be refrained from on a job, it would have to include:

No smoking inside the house (yes I've seen it done even nowadays)
No swearing inside the house (bad when kids are there)
No loud music (especially rap)
Use only the designated bathroom
Do NOT feel free to grab a bottle of water from the customer's fridge (bring your own or find a garden hose)
No "exploring" in the rest of the house on breaks
ETC.

None of my current subs would even think of doing these things. But I see these things done all the time on jobs where I am just the EC.

My point is that customers notice these things and failure to react will result in a lost referral (or even worse, a bad one). It all comes down to how the GC enforces his rules and a bit of common sense.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

RobertCDF said:


> I've read most of the posts in this thread and I think 95% of you don't really have a clue what is going on. Let me see if I can break it down.
> 
> Female homeowner is home alone with 2 male workers carpentering the hell out of some wood  all the while speaking quickly and in a language that she doesn't understand while shooting her looks and laughing or giggling. In the homeowners mind they could be talking about raping her, killing her, or other such things and she doesn't have a clue.
> 
> I fully think she is within her rights to request english, kind of hard to plot harm to someone in front of them while speaking a language they understand.


Like I said, we'll never know the basis for her discomfort, but that is a valid possibility.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

CrpntrFrk said:


> Ok Yes respect. Of course they deserve respect. Yes it is their home. But their home becomes our workplace and they need to respect that we are doing our best for them as timely as possible so we can move on and do the same for others. If that means that our workers talk to each other in Spanish so be it.
> 
> They also need to respect that they (HO) are privileged to have us in their homes so they need to let us do our job.
> 
> Here is a good one. A deaf person on the crew ......can only communicate in sign language. Well? It's not quite English is it? Do they still have the right to say " The guy with the talking hands is creeping me out with that sign stuff. Tell him to knock it off"?


Yes, they have that right. How it is handled is your business.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

CrpntrFrk said:


> Ok Yes respect. Of course they deserve respect. Yes it is their home. But their home becomes our workplace and they need to respect that we are doing our best for them as timely as possible so we can move on and do the same for others. If that means that our workers talk to each other in Spanish so be it.
> 
> They also need to respect that they (HO) are privileged to have us in their homes so they need to let us do our job.
> 
> Here is a good one. A deaf person on the crew ......can only communicate in sign language. Well? It's not quite English is it? Do they still have the right to say " The guy with the talking hands is creeping me out with that sign stuff. Tell him to knock it off"?


YES!!!Yes they do have the right to say knock it off. I think that example is a bad one. But yes the HO has the right for whatever reason to ask anything they want. It may cost them extra and we may need to respectfully explain to them why. From the HOs point of view they are the boss they are paying the bill so we are the ones blessed with the work they chose to give us. and if speaking in anything but english offends them then I say that is their right to request english only in their presence.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Tinstaafl said:


> There is absolutely nothing in the OP to substantiate that scenario.


And there is nothing to say that is not a possible scenario. A woman will always think the worst and feel uncomfortable if she doesn't understand what is going on around her.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

For those of you who feel the homeowner is "honored" or "lucky" to have you in their home how would you respond if your employee felt the same way? "My boss is so lucky to have me, I am just so amazing that the world revolves around me"... Please... We all think no one is better than us, but be honest there is always someone as good or better.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

RobertCDF said:


> And there is nothing to say that is not a possible scenario. A woman will always think the worst and feel uncomfortable if she doesn't understand what is going on around her.


Truth be told, and I am pretty sure a lot of us feel the same way;

I feel awkward going into a woman's bedroom, master bath, etc. too with just she and I present. Especially on a service call where I have no history or don't know them, or have not been referred.

But it's part of the job. I absolutely "get" the whole creepy thing, but it goes both ways.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

RobertCDF said:


> For those of you who feel the homeowner is "honored" or "lucky" to have you in their home how would you respond if your employee felt the same way? "My boss is so lucky to have me, I am just so amazing that the world revolves around me"... Please... We all think no one is better than us, but be honest there is always someone as good or better.


Absolutely correct. we are the ones that should be thankfull for being invited into the customers house.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

RobertCDF said:


> For those of you who feel the homeowner is "honored" or "lucky" to have you in their home how would you respond if your employee felt the same way?


I totally get that. By the same token, that employee shouldn't be asked to shine your shoes or wear a clown suit, unless that's what he was hired for. I'll happily do both while mucking out your stables. As long as you're willing to pay accordingly.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

If the HO hires the GC and the GC hires the sub, it should be obvious which direction loyalty should go. Once the sub dictates the terms of the relationship, it's a done deal. The GC is forever his *****.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Tinstaafl said:


> I totally get that. By the same token, that employee shouldn't be asked to shine your shoes or wear a clown suit, unless that's what he was hired for. I'll happily do both while mucking out your stables. As long as you're willing to pay accordingly.


I would draw the line at the clown suit but if it's an employee why do they care what labor they perform? As long as I pay them their hourly rate They should do anything I ask.Including speaking english in front of the HO. Shineing shoes is alot easier than humping ladders around all day any day.


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## Easy E (Jun 18, 2011)

True


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

jamestrd said:


> really?...seems to me they may need meds if they're that paranoid...
> 
> do people really sit around while working making fun of people?
> 
> or are they just talking about the game they saw the other night? like any couple guys would do..


They don't know... BECAUSE THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT. 

I know on my jobsites we have a great time, we talk a bit while working, we laugh we have a good time, the old fart jokes come out, the short jokes come out (talking about members of the crew) etc. However if we were doing it in another language then a passerby or homeowner with an open widow, etc might wonder what is being said and about whom. 

I find it extremely disrespectful to use a language in front of someone that they may not understand. It has nothing to do with "paranoid", it's just plain rude.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

RobertCDF said:


> They don't know... BECAUSE THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT.
> 
> 
> c'mon man..again.that is ridiculous..and paranoid.. do you work and walk around making fun of people for no apparent reason?..what makes you believe because you cant understand a language that you are being made fun of?
> ...


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I don't see what my post count has to do with taking care of my customers. Yes I kiss their ass and they pay me to do so. I also get to hear all their horror stories about rude disrespectful contractors.


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## Easy E (Jun 18, 2011)

Well I think we got off course here. The point of the matter is if somebody wants something done and they are truly are concerned with getting a good job., they wouldn't care what they speak , Spanish , English , or any other language . You know there is a lot of white carpenters that are missing teeth, and I can't understand what they saying. Lol


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

no one says you need to be rude....but there are circumstances that you can tend to and then there some you need to just get done and get out...

if i get a sense a HO is feeling uncomfortable,which is rare because if i am not around, my brother is, I will show up a little more often til we get done and out..maintain peace..but i will not tolerate blatant stupidity from a HO..especially regarding the color of a mans skin ethnicity or language they speak.

at that point it will become strictly business,no personal repoire...just get done..heres your final bill..thank you and good bye..

now dont get me wrong...i understand some points being made..but 1 HO will not break me...My men make me much more than 1 HO's job..

(the post remark was because you have made the same post over and over)


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

It's about respect. You clearly don't respect your customers, and that's fine. I would fire you if you were that rude to me (or if you were a sub and were that rude to my customer). 

Based on how people are having a hard time understanding what I'm saying I'm beginning to question if I am even speaking the same language... Oh well, you do yours, I'll do mine, but I'll do mine with respect, you can do yours to your ego.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Robert,

dont turn it into something its not..really..get off your high horse..


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Like they say "when in Rome"

Goto any other country and speak English and see how most of them react to you. I don't speak much French but all the times i went to France i did my best to speak their language and the same when i went to Austria, Spain etc etc Nothing more embarrassing listening to a person who speaks English trying to speak to a person with different language but put an accent on English words :blink:

Like some have said its just plain rude for starters. I have had french people talk crap about me thinking i didnt know what they were saying then i reply back to them. Happens a lot on the ski lifts.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

jamestrd said:


> Robert,
> 
> dont turn it into something its not..really..get off your high horse..


I'm not turning it into something it's not... It's about respect. Some do it (like me and many others) Some do not. If you don't want to respect your customers that's fine with me, it's your business, not mine.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

Robert,

again..really?...that horse just got taller it seems.

how many guys would remain in biz if they didn't respect their clients??..
you are not above anyone..drop the facade now..

there are situations to be coddled, diffused and tended to..and then there are some where you just bow out and move on..

I had a HO who refused to talk a man that works for me because he was black..told his grandson to stay away from him.and had another guy say the N word right in front of him..it is now the HO who was disrespectful and they do not deserve to be treated with respect..at that point..it become a strict business deal and we get done and out..no friendliness..just take the money and go.

that is not to say I dont understand what you and others are saying..it is to say I dont agree fully and your way is not necessarily rightgeous" as you may seem to think.

the men who work for you deserve respect too..speaking amongst themselves in native tongue is not rude or disrespectful.its just easier for them.


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## jamestrd (Oct 26, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Like they say "when in Rome"
> 
> Goto any other country and speak English and see how most of them react to you. I don't speak much French but all the times i went to France i did my best to speak their language and the same when i went to Austria, Spain etc etc Nothing more embarrassing listening to a person who speaks English trying to speak to a person with different language but put an accent on English words :blink:
> 
> Like some have said its just plain rude for starters. I have had french people talk crap about me thinking i didnt know what they were saying then i reply back to them. Happens a lot on the ski lifts.


Most european countries speak english..they are taught it in school.

the French are the French..they are known to be rude and dont like americans..what else you want form a country that never won a war..

most europeans and other countries are willing to hep if they see you need it..and will speak english to you.. My girl is from italy a and would attest to that..


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

jamestrd said:


> I had a HO who refused to talk a man that works for me because he was black..told his grandson to stay away from him.and had another guy say the N word right in front of him..it is now the HO who was disrespectful and they do not deserve to be treated with respect..at that point..it become a strict business deal and we get done and out..no friendliness..just take the money and go.
> 
> the men who work for you deserve respect too..speaking amongst themselves in native tongue is not rude or disrespectful.its just easier for them.


In that case the homeowner is being disrespectful and deserved nothing other than getting done and getting the hell out of there. 

My opinion does not change however, I fully believe it is disrespectful to speak another language in front of the homeowner when you can communicate in the homeowners language clearly. I'm not saying that people can not speak in their native tongue, if that's what you're getting then you're missing it. It is disrespectful to talk in a language that the customer does not understand when they are present. If no one is around feel free to do whatever you want. 

How many stories are posted in this thread about how someone was talking trash about the person in front of them in another language not knowing that the person DID understand that language? It happens, stop acting like everyone is perfect and doesn't do that.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

MJW said:


> Spanish speaking=cheap labor, IMO. Never seen anything to change my mind on that one yet.


 That's BS, my lead painter has been with us 18 years, EARNED a citizenship and probably speaks better English than I do. He speaks Spanish to other Mexicans all the time. Just doesn't do in an occupied home. I would bet 100$ we pay him more than any painting employee within 100 miles.

Our plumber is a first generation American, 68 years old, veitnam veteran. Been plumbing for my grandpa since '77. He speaks Spanish in his home and with other Mexicans. I'd bet he's been a 6 figure earner for 20 years.

My brother is an American, speaks reads and write Mexican extremely well, I pay him quite a bit.

My carpenters (brothers) are US citizens and superb carpenters, all well paid. Speak Spanish together and at home. You will never find more patriotic men. Don't stereotype, please.

These men are all bilingual, as well as citizens. If you meant Spanish speaking ONLY, I agree. I live an area where I am the minority in construction, and lose jobs to scum bag builders hie ILLEGALS and pay low wages. Lots of Mexican Americans and men with 25 year Visas that went through the system legally. Many are highly skilled and paid well, loyal and hard workers.

I agree we should hire Americans if you can , legal help always. Never met an all American masonry or concrete crew here. Ever. Just saying


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Much ado about nothing.


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

> c'mon man..again.that is ridiculous..and paranoid.. do you work and walk around making fun of people for no apparent reason?..what makes you believe because you cant understand a language that you are being made fun of?
> 
> that's called schitzophrenia.



BS.

Guys are guys regardless of what language(s) that they speak.

I'm multi-lingual & I've heard it here in the US & overseas.

Not too long a few my guys & I were moving equipment from one job to another. We stopped at a Burger King to get lunch.

One of the guys is checking out a woman that is waiting for her food. He turns to of our other guys & says to him in Russian:

"Check out the t*** on that one. I'd love to **** her." 

The woman's food arrives, she picks it up, turns to Sergei & says to him "Sorry you're too small son" in perfect Russian & walks away.:laughing::laughing:


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Brickie said:


> jamestrd said:
> 
> 
> > BS.
> ...


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## Brickie (Jun 15, 2006)

RobertCDF said:


> Brickie said:
> 
> 
> > That is exactly what I'm saying, If you have to say it in another language because you don't have stones to say it to the persons face then you're being disrespectful.
> ...


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

jamestrd said:


> really?...seems to me they may need meds if they're that paranoid...
> do people really sit around while working making fun of people?
> or are they just talking about the game they saw the other night? like any couple guys would do..


:no:



Easy E said:


> You know there is a lot of white carpenters that are missing teeth, and I can't understand what they saying. Lol


Too bad they don't make enough money to get some teeth:blink:



jamestrd said:


> Robert,
> dont turn it into something its not..really..get off your high horse..


 Robert is fine it's you on the high horse, One common language, one common people.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

jamestrd said:


> Most european countries speak english..they are taught it in school.
> 
> the French are the French..they are known to be rude and dont like americans..what else you want form a country that never won a war..
> 
> most europeans and other countries are willing to hep if they see you need it..and will speak english to you.. My girl is from italy a and would attest to that..


Nope they don't have to take English just like I don't have to take German or French in school. I guess you have never been to France as only people who ain't been would say they are rude. They have been some of the most welcoming people I have meet in any country. I guess if you go there and expect them to know your language and not even attempt to learn there's then yeah they could seem rude. It's not just France that don't like Americans it the whole world. Don't be blaming just the french for that.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Can I beat the horse some more too?


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

RobertCDF said:


> Can I beat the horse some more too?


You can beat somethin.............:jester:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I had no idea there were so many members with zero posts. Maybe they can't type English?


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

Mercy....172 notifications in day and half :laughing:


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TheItalian204 said:


> Mercy....172 notifications in day and half :laughing:


What ya think the OP is gonna think ?:laughing:


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## Sir Mixalot (Jan 6, 2008)

summithomeinc said:


> What ya think the OP is gonna think ?:laughing:


Probably something along these lines......:001_huh:


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## TheItalian204 (Jun 1, 2011)

summithomeinc said:


> What ya think the OP is gonna think ?:laughing:


Damn things get delivered on my phone and get mixed up with actual emails..lol...

all good though,I could turn them off if I minded :laughing:...but yea I think horse is dead and now we beating the bush..or around the bush...under which horse died..


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

TheItalian204 said:


> Damn things get delivered on my phone and get mixed up with actual emails..lol...
> 
> all good though,I could turn them off if I minded :laughing:...but yea I think horse is dead and now we beating the bush..or around the bush...under which horse died..


Agreed:laughing:


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)




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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)




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