# Late payment due to death in family?



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> Its just hard gettin to the point of having a cash reserve.


Took me about 3 years before I developed a cushion, and that can get depleted when floating jobs.

I'd show up at the wake...with my credit card reader.


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## Stoneyard (Mar 30, 2014)

Californiadecks said:


> Tell them there will be another death in the family if you don't get your money.


:laughing: I like your style... Some folks have no idea the hoops we jump through to get a job done on time and on budget.


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## Mikesloan (Jan 29, 2014)

6stringmason said:


> Yes, another week is a problem. I've had a slow late winter due to record days of low temps, and record lows all in a row. It was a horrible winter for masonry.
> 
> My contract, that he signed, said payment due upon completion. That was a month ago. The HO wanted me to touch some things up, then I'd get the remainder of the money 'right away', GC's words.
> 
> ...


The real reason you are not getting paid is because they don't want to release the money until they earn another months interest from the money that really belongs to you.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Do you not have a clause somewhere in your contract that says overdue payments will be collect intrest at x% per month? That usually gets people to move a little faster.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Took me about 3 years before I developed a cushion, and that can get depleted when floating jobs.
> 
> I'd show up at the wake...with my credit card reader.


Its been five years and I am almost out of debt. Next is the cushion. I had a rough patch last year. I was paid up and lost a client that was feeding my bathroom after bathroom. Took all of last year to get back on my feet and running string. 

This year had been unbelievable. I should have my reserve by August.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

pinwheel said:


> This type thing is why we keep emergency reserve money in savings. Sometimes cash flow becomes an issue, regardless of whether it's a death in the family, or I for some unforeseen reason can't get the jobs to 100% completion. Nothing ruins excellent credit faster than being slow pay to my creditors. I hate taking that money out of savings, but I hate more not being able to pick up the phone & say send me 1000 ft of flooring & know it's on it's way.


Hard to get a cash reserve with a slow winter and non paying clients. I got one right now owes me nearly 2 grand since last July. Don't really think I'll see that money. Hate working for GCs. Never have this problem with residential home owners.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

If it was an immediate family member then I would probably wait the week, unless it meant me not paying my crew. I don't stiff employees, ever. Getting paid regularly is one of the only real perks of being an employee.

If there is a GC involved then why isn't he the one paying you? I only do prime contracts but all my contracts include that all but 5% of the contract be paid at substantial completion with 5% held back for punch list items, if necessary. It keeps me from having to wait a month for one cabinet coming in or some other silly thing.

I'd email and say, "Very sorry to hear of your loss. We had agreed on payment this week and I have planned accordingly. There are many expenses involved in running a business and I also have bills to pay. Please forward the payment. Thank you for understanding."


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

Leo G said:


> Hard to get a cash reserve with a slow winter and non paying clients. I got one right now owes me nearly 2 grand since last July. Don't really think I'll see that money. Hate working for GCs. Never have this problem with residential home owners.



That's why those monies need to be put together when cash flow is good & it needs to be earmarked for emergencies only. When it's used for emergencies, it needs to be replaced when cash flow gets good again. If we're running a profitable business, it's not that hard to put away 5-10% of the profits from every job. It just takes discipline & telling ourselves NO once in a while.:laughing:

We got into a low cashflow situation for a few weeks this winter & had to borrow $2500 from our savings to pay the bills. It wasn't because we didn't have work, it was because we had 3 open jobs going at the same time & didn't collect final draw till they were complete. As soon as I write the check to the IRS, I'll start putting that $2500 back in savings so it's there the next time we need it.

As for working fot GC's, I guess I'm fortunate to have the GC's that call us. They make up about 25% of our annual work & none of them have ever stiffed me to date. Occasionally they're slow pay, but they always pay, most within 30 days of final bill.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

since when does personal affairs mix in to business affairs? 
Yeah, I forgot.... when you owe people money


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> That's why those monies need to be put together when cash flow is good & it needs to be earmarked for emergencies only. When it's used for emergencies, it needs to be replaced when cash flow gets good again. If we're running a profitable business, it's not that hard to put away 5-10% of the profits from every job. It just takes discipline & telling ourselves NO once in a while.:laughing:
> 
> We got into a low cashflow situation for a few weeks this winter & had to borrow $2500 from our savings to pay the bills. It wasn't because we didn't have work, it was because we had 3 open jobs going at the same time & didn't collect final draw till they were complete. As soon as I write the check to the IRS, I'll start putting that $2500 back in savings so it's there the next time we need it.
> 
> As for working fot GC's, I guess I'm fortunate to have the GC's that call us. They make up about 25% of our annual work & none of them have ever stiffed me to date. Occasionally they're slow pay, but they always pay, most within 30 days of final bill.


I don't think anyone would argue with that. But your need to be debt free before saving. Makes no sense to pay interest on a cc or account and have savings.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I don't think anyone would argue with that. But your need to be debt free before saving. Makes no sense to pay interest on a cc or account and have savings.


Logically one would think that, but there are situations where that is not the case.

If your cash on hand is more monetarily productive than the interest rate you are paying it isn't worth paying off.

If you are trying to teach someone who has chronic money management problems you have to train them to save a very small amount of money at all times, even if they still own money, just so they get in the practice of saving something.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Logically one would think that, but there are situations where that is not the case.
> 
> If your cash on hand is more monetarily productive than the interest rate you are paying it isn't worth paying off.
> 
> If you are trying to teach someone who has chronic money management problems you have to train them to save a very small amount of money at all times, even if they still own money, just so they get in the practice of saving something.


Obviuosly, but money sitting in a savings account isn't going to out produce interest on a card.

Cash on hand and cash reserve are not the same. We are strictly speaking of cash reserve.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

brunothedog said:


> since when does personal affairs mix in to business affairs?
> Yeah, I forgot.... when you owe people money


Can't separate my business from my person. So it's always personal.


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## pinwheel (Dec 7, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I don't think anyone would argue with that. But your need to be debt free before saving. Makes no sense to pay interest on a cc or account and have savings.


I disagree. For a business, those emergency reserves need to be in place before worrying about getting outta debt. Even if it means you gotta borrow those reserves. They're not their to make you money, they're there to keep your head above water when cash flow doesn't keep up with the incoming bills.

Before we built our new shop last fall, we had a years worth of bills in reserve. To keep from borrowing money to build the shop, we used 2/3rds of those reserves. Under no circumstances, we we willing to drop below 4 months of bills in savings.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

pinwheel said:


> I disagree. For a business, those emergency reserves need to be in place before worrying about getting outta debt. Even if it means you gotta borrow those reserves. They're not their to make you money, they're there to keep your head above water when cash flow doesn't keep up with the incoming bills.
> 
> Before we built our new shop last fall, we had a years worth of bills in reserve. To keep from borrowing money to build the shop, we used 2/3rds of those reserves. Under no circumstances, we we willing to drop below 4 months of bills in savings.


I agree, less risk using opm as well. :whistling


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Just tell them you need the money as the material supplier is ready to place a lien on the property. As soon as you get paid, you pay the supplier and the lien goes away and they get a lien release.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> I disagree. For a business, those emergency reserves need to be in place before worrying about getting outta debt. Even if it means you gotta borrow those reserves. They're not their to make you money, they're there to keep your head above water when cash flow doesn't keep up with the incoming bills.
> 
> Before we built our new shop last fall, we had a years worth of bills in reserve. To keep from borrowing money to build the shop, we used 2/3rds of those reserves. Under no circumstances, we we willing to drop below 4 months of bills in savings.


In effect you are borrowing money for a cash reserve. It may make you feel warm and fuzzy but carrying more debt than you can cover is just bad business. Paying that debt of is smart.

If you have a year in cash reserve there is no reason not to pay off your debts. Just doesn't makes sense to accrue more interest when you have the money to pay it off.

I am not taking about capital loans and credit accounts, not investment loans or property.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

EthanB said:


> If it was an immediate family member then I would probably wait the week, unless it meant me not paying my crew. I don't stiff employees, ever. Getting paid regularly is one of the only real perks of being an employee.
> 
> If there is a GC involved then why isn't he the one paying you? I only do prime contracts but all my contracts include that all but 5% of the contract be paid at substantial completion with 5% held back for punch list items, if necessary. It keeps me from having to wait a month for one cabinet coming in or some other silly thing.
> 
> I'd email and say, "Very sorry to hear of your loss. We had agreed on payment this week and I have planned accordingly. There are many expenses involved in running a business and I also have bills to pay. Please forward the payment. Thank you for understanding."




I agree immediate family member deserves a week. No different than if someone in your immediate family died and the HO demanded you to trim their window the next day
But, who did you do the work for the GC or the homeowner?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I agree, with TNT (a first for everything) Paying off debt is WAY better than accumulating a cushion. The debt you are paying off can be re-used if necessary (hopefully not) to pay back material creditors or subs. 

It's pretty simple math, if the interest you're paying is greater than the interest you're making..... pay off debt


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

As for the problem at hand. What's your relationship with the payee like? Ever dealt with them before? If so have they ever been late before? If yes, did they pay promptly afterwards? Any other reason to feel like they may be trying to shaft you? They said payement on completion....did they give you anything before the deficiencies were noted?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pinwheel said:


> I don't believe I said anywhere to borrow money when you already have available funds. I said make sure you've got emergency reserve, even if you've gotta borrow that money.
> 
> Emergencies don't usually give you advanced notice that they're coming. I need to be prepared for those emergencies.
> 
> ...


You are missing my point and what I am saying.

If you carry debt and start saving it is as if, not actually are, borrowing that money for a cash reserves.

And I never said debt was a dirty word. I do believe I said that I was not speaking of capital loans..which is what you are talking about. I am talking about credit accounts and credit cards.

Nor did I say that taking out a loan to make a profit was a bad idea. My point is simple. Pay off your REVOLVING credit and CREDIT Cards before saving up a cash reserve. I am not sure where that was lost in your interpretation of what I was saying, but that is what I have said the entire thread.

And for the record I never made you the subject, as others and yourself have suggested, concerning my view. I have just responded to your points of disagreement.:thumbsup:


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

6stringmason said:


> Billing is going through the GC. The HO's wanted me to do the projects, concrete counters, and they got my info off my website.
> 
> HO told me what they wanted, I asked if they are hiring me directly or is GC, whom I did ONE other countertop job for. So I said ok, I'll write up the contract and send it to the GC. He signed it returned it with required %50 deposit.
> 
> ...




Sounds to me that GC owes this money to you. Who cares about the death in the family of the HO then. That is GC's problem to deal with and he should pay you for your service to him since the job is complete.
Unless of course the GC has no working capital and is relying on each payment from HO to carry himself through.

Maybe GC should come on here and get some advice from TNT:whistling


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## PoleBarnsNY (Jan 18, 2014)

That's an interesting way for a douche to finance a funeral.


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## 6stringmason (May 20, 2005)

Just to clarify there was not a death in the HO's family, theres was a death in the GC's family, apparently. 

As far as I know the loan is moved to regular home loan as they are living there, and were living there when I did my touch up, and the GC has been all paid up. Thats why he said in soon as I do the touch up stuff, I can get paid immediately. I finished the touch up on April 2nd, and still havent seen my remaining %50.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TimNJ said:


> Sounds to me that GC owes this money to you. Who cares about the death in the family of the HO then. That is GC's problem to deal with and he should pay you for your service to him since the job is complete.
> Unless of course the GC has no working capital and is relying on each payment from HO to carry himself through.
> 
> Maybe GC should come on here and get some advice from TNT:whistling


Working capital and a cash reserve are not the same thing. Sounds like he isn't the only one that could use some advice.


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## littlefred811 (Dec 16, 2012)

6stringmason said:


> Just to clarify there was not a death in the HO's family, theres was a death in the GC's family, apparently.
> 
> As far as I know the loan is moved to regular home loan as they are living there, and were living there when I did my touch up, and the GC has been all paid up. Thats why he said in soon as I do the touch up stuff, I can get paid immediately. I finished the touch up on April 2nd, and still havent seen my remaining %50.


GC Paid up? Lein. Now. Guy is playing you. Hope it works out.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Another Pay when Paid douche it sounds like.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

Your gonna need some too,


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

6stringmason said:


> Just to clarify there was not a death in the HO's family, theres was a death in the GC's family, apparently.
> 
> As far as I know the loan is moved to regular home loan as they are living there, and were living there when I did my touch up, and the GC has been all paid up. Thats why he said in soon as I do the touch up stuff, I can get paid immediately. I finished the touch up on April 2nd, and still havent seen my remaining %50.




Man oh man did I miss read that.
All this time I thought the HO had the death.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Working capital and a cash reserve are not the same thing. Sounds like he isn't the only one that could use some advice.


 Call it whatever you want.

Bottom line....Learn to B U D G E T your jobs.

I've been in business for more than 30 years. I learned REAL fast to set up draws to work with the HO's money first, mine second.
Employees and subs got paid before I did.

Everybody, myself included, can get stuck behind the 8 ball. That's why it is so important to set up a budget for the job.

You are being paid by the HO.


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## B.D.R. (May 22, 2007)

I'm really sorry to hear about your current family situation, but you must understand that I too have a family and must at this point proceed with an intent to lein to protect them.
Thank you for your prompt reply.
Sincerely ****


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

How long does this guy stop all work, and paying bills due to a death in the family? Is his mortgage company going to wait? Utility bills? Car notes?


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