# Don't yell! Want to start a painting business



## Respond (Jan 8, 2008)

OK - don't yell everyone - I am not a painter, but I want to start a painting business in 2008. I have a great head for business and am great at sales. I would like to hire painters and spend my time marketing and bidding jobs. I am not great at painting but I can prep and do other things to add value on the job. I am not looking to be too long on each job anyway, since I want to focus on leads, bidding, more leads, etc.

I want to start in the painting biz because there is a need in my region for responsible people to come in and do what they say they will do for the customer. I believe in quality, developing a reputation and creating a pleasant experience for the homeowner. As you all know, people say this all the time, but a lot of times they don't come through. If I do what I say I will do, I know my business will flourish.

I have money to start up a biz for supplies, advertising, licenses, etc. I am a woman who is an upstanding member of my community, so I have credibility and know a lot of people who have promised to help me with referrals. I am a whiz at organization and managing multiple projects and being extremely efficient with my time and money.

I have been reading a lot of these posts and I have a ton of respect for all the entrepreneurs out there who are helping newbies and who genuinely love what they do and love to talk about it. I don't want to offend any of you by being a "john" and not knowing anything and busting into your area of expertise. But I need some tough love and I am tough enough to hear it, so lay it on me brothers and sisters and tell me if you think a businesswoman without painting experience can actually make this work.

Thanks!


----------



## DeanV (Feb 20, 2006)

I think the toughest part will be estimating. Without painting experience, I do not know how I would come up with a bid. I base all of my prices by looking at the job and figuring out how many hours it will take me to get it done and how much materials. This was learned by being hands on and being a painter first. With time, after you hire your crew and get to know their speed you will be able to keep track of things like that and your bids will get better. The hard part will be hiring the right experienced painters.


----------



## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

You had better trust the guys you hire or they will milk every job you put them on. But you also dont want to push them too hard because that will make the quality suffer and the " what the hell have you ever painted?" questions will start to fly. Anything can be done if you want it bad enough. 
Run a legit business, treat your customers right and dont hire any damn illegal aliens.


----------



## Respond (Jan 8, 2008)

Great advice to the above posts - thanks. I think bidding will be rough, but I can afford to break even or lose some money in order to learn some lessons. 

Hiring will be challenging. Question: How do people "milk every job"? What does that mean pls?


----------



## buildenterprise (Dec 4, 2007)

Respond said:


> Great advice to the above posts - thanks. I think bidding will be rough, but I can afford to break even or lose some money in order to learn some lessons.
> 
> Hiring will be challenging. Question: How do people "milk every job"? What does that mean pls?


Any hourly employee can "milk the job" by making it take longer than necessary....I think piece work is the way to go, but then you run the risk of employees rushing the job.


----------



## HomeGuard (Dec 13, 2007)

thats exactly how i started, I've never painted, prepped, or anything other than supervised on a jobsite. but the only way to make sure you make enough is to keep 3-4 crews going at a time.

the only warning I give you: don't forget about the time you will spend supervising jobs and handling the customers at those jobs in addition to marketing, sales, estimating ect.-- a 10 hr day is a good one. 

buy the national paint cost estimater to help with pricing.


----------



## KJLinden2002 (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks like I'm moving to where your at!... JK.

I sorta knew how to paint when I started. I could knock out exteriors with the best of them because that is all I did. This summer I hired my first helper that had 3 years experience. I worked along side him and hired a ground man. He, though not knowing it, taught me pretty much everything I know about painting. How to cut, roll, what products work best for this and that. Don't get me wrong I knew a lot but I learned from my employees. I am now better than any of them. I look at getting out of the field more and doing more advertising. If you say you have the demand then just hire a couple of people you can trust and work a few jobs for the first few months until you feel you can cut, roll and spray better than any of them. Most important you need to learn the different product lines and their cross-overs. This way you can sell the customer the right product at the time of the bid. It definitely isn't good when a customer asks you a question and you don't know. Learn to calculate square footage and Follow (FOLLOW FOLLOW) up with your customers. I can't tell you how many times I sold a job because I called the guy to ask him if he got the fax, or ask him how his bidding process was going and if he needed any recommendations.


----------



## Joewho (Sep 20, 2006)

If this is purely from no hands on experience or knowledge, then do what everyone else does.

Get the paint estimator hand book. Get the "out of the bucket" program. Join napp and the other one, etc, etc.


----------



## Respond (Jan 8, 2008)

HomeGuardPaints said:


> thats exactly how i started, I've never painted, prepped, or anything other than supervised on a jobsite. but the only way to make sure you make enough is to keep 3-4 crews going at a time.
> 
> the only warning I give you: don't forget about the time you will spend supervising jobs and handling the customers at those jobs in addition to marketing, sales, estimating ect.-- a 10 hr day is a good one.
> 
> buy the national paint cost estimater to help with pricing.


Thanks for the great advice. What do you mean, "a 10 hr day is a good one" - allocate my 10 hour days to my bid prices?

I was also thinking of having some rooms in my own house painted by potential employees to calculate the time and costs.


----------



## donb1959 (Dec 9, 2004)

Take the easy way out, move to NC hire me for 75K yearly (plus bonus), and I will handle all the field work for you.:thumbup:


----------



## hometechnc (Jan 5, 2008)

Just my opinion, but I would strongly recommend going to work for a known, quality painter in your region for at least six months. Learn the basics insofar as materials, techniques, estimating,etc.

I cannot fathom entering this trade as a business owner, and not knowing the basics. You would be setting yourself for being manipulated and/or ripped off by your employees, and quite possibly, you customers.


----------



## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

You are not a painter.
Consider that to be an advantage, not a problem.
Most of us came in the business as painters and it took us forever 
to see this as a business. Getting out of that bucket was tough.
In the begining, start with the average production rates
and then adjust them to fit your crews.
If you can afford it, follow this sequence: 
focus on the administrative part first,
marketing and sales next,
production last.

If you are not good at something, hire people that are.

Join NAPP and look at some of the Out of the Bucket systems.
and read the E-Myth



> you think a businesswoman without painting experience can actually make this work?


Yes.


----------



## Respond (Jan 8, 2008)

Hey George Z

I am happily married, but I would slap a big fat juicy kiss on you right now if I could. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

And to all of you with advice that isn't as encouraging, thanks for that as well. It's great to hear all sides - I will learn from all of it.


----------



## KellyPainting (May 30, 2006)

Well your off to a good start. We will help you as much as we can..

Here's a few pointers to get you attacked the least...
1st tell us your bid and ask our opinion.... don't ask us to bid.
2nd always give as much information as possible.
3rd be nice...if were attacked we will bite back.

Listen to George, he's got some good points... Just coming here puts
you ahead of the rest... Also your the age and gender is the same
as the clients you'll be working for. Take you time you will learn by your
mistakes. Never let the customer think you don't know what you are doing
they can read it in your body language..and get someone who has ran a crew
.....Get the best guy you can afford and take it from there.


----------



## Brian (Jun 9, 2004)

I agree with George Z-- the lack of painting background is a blessing in disguise. More than 90% of those starting a painting business this year will be out of business within 10 years. The primary reason is lack of business skills. 

As George said, if you aren't good at something, hire those who are. 

Brian Phillips


----------



## KJLinden2002 (Dec 29, 2007)

And, if you think you know already know alot. Hire someone who has a couple years of experience and learn their pros and cons. Adapt to their pros and teach him yours. That should wipe out all of the cons that you might have as a home owner painter. O yeah, and the only brush you need is a good 3 inch. Everything else should only be used for special situations. Also I use an 18 inch roller for almost everything. In general, in an 8' bedroom, you should be able to cut the whole room twice as fast as you roll.


----------



## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

Could not agree with George more. I hate painting and don't. I run a business. We are blessed that the phone rings. I meet people all the time that have no work and the phone does not ring. With good business practice, advertizing and a good knowledge of business background, you will do fine. We get anywhere from 10 to 20 calls a day. This is not because I know how to paint...this is because I know how to run a business. We have 2 different businesses and do quite well, year after year. Make sure that you stand out from all of the other guys and you will be fine.
Good luck and just worry about getting the phone ringing


----------



## THINKPAINTING (Feb 24, 2007)

Alot will depend on your location. My area is over loaded with painters, painting contractors, and companys.

Location just as in real estate makes a difference. Good luck.


----------



## Dave Mac (Jan 30, 2006)

Brian said:


> As George said, if you aren't good at something, hire those who are.
> 
> Brian Phillips


So you better be good at knowing what is good and what is not. Personally for me, its easier having been a painter to know what is good, and what is not. And then hiring someone, with my expectations.

Ive always thought it was easier to learn the trade from the ground up with the end in mine. The buisness part to me is way easier then the technical part. You cant have a a profitable buisness with out a good understanding how the field works, no better way to understand how the field works then to have been in the field. I personally enjoy the fact, I dont have to take someone's word for what is a good production rate, or how to do something, I dont have to be the best at everything, but I want to know hands on, how everything in my company works. 

Thanks
dave mac


----------



## Capella (May 17, 2007)

I don't know if this will work for you but I talked to a guy recently who did it. He found himself a good independent crew who knew a ton about painting but nothing about running and growing a business. He told them that he could generate a ton of business and keep them busy constantly if they'd help him get off the ground. You obviously have to be careful that you can trust the foreman/manager and the crew. It worked for him and he has since added a second crew. Both crews are contract but they (say they) work only for him because he keeps them busy enough.

As far as milking goes, I've also seen company owners say to a crew "I've estimated this job at 28 hours (3.5 days) and I'll pay you and your crew $325/day up to a maximum of 3.5 days". This is the same as piece work. Just be careful that they aren't rushing too much to get out early. 

There's all kinds of ways to this I guess, so hopefully you can take many ideas from this forum (and painttalk.com and make them into something workable for you. Good luck with the new business!


----------



## Capella (May 17, 2007)

Hi, Esmerelda. Some really good advice here. I'll share some encouragement with you. I have a friend in Boston who started a painting company about three years ago. His only experience had been some painting in college. As I mentioned before, he found someone he could trust to be a crew boss and from there it took off. He made well over 150k in his 3rd year (profit, not margin) and is loving it. Like me, he decided that corporate life was too much about 'how can I can make tons of dough while doing the least amount of work'. And another friend of mine right here in Austin started out about 14 months ago. His first year take-home was around 80k. None of us are getting rich but we make honest, decent livings providing good work. 

If you're starting a painting company because you want to make an honest, decent living doing good work- well, you've cleared the first hurdle. Work hard, be honest, and seek advice wherever you can find it.
My two cents.
Best of luck!
Dennis D.


----------



## premierpainter (Dec 29, 2006)

Steve Richards said:


> , But it worked for me.


 
Worked being a great choice of words. In this type of market, if your not advertising and taking on new customers, your going to be in trouble.


----------



## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Yup, you're right. Silly me...after 28 years I guess it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## polakthepainter (Jan 26, 2008)

I been painting for 2 years now, and i owned my buisenss for 8 months now. Yes it;'s true you don't have to know everything about painting, but the key is to have and make the proper contacts, yep it's all about who you know and in some cases how big is your envelope. I'm lucke, i met few managers of few home builders, few rich men who own lot of property in my city, and a manager of renovation company that keeps me busy. The bottom line is if you have the work there will be people who want to do it, just learn all the numbers of the game and have fun playing it.


----------



## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Yeah...I've had some of those clients since the start. People that own multiple office and apt. buildings, warehouses, and rental properties.
One of them took me to lunch on our 25th anniversary of doing business, and gave me a thanks-for-everything $2500 check during desert.

I've always put these clients painting needs first, and they know that (because I tell them).

But on this site, you mention you don't have to advertise..and instead of people asking you what you've (obviously) been doing right all these years...they tell you you're going to be in trouble if you don't do it their way.

odd... but that's fine, I'm not gonna get into a pissin'-contest over it.


----------



## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

I hesitate to say this...because most won't even believe it anyhow...

But I have 2 long-time clients that own income properties. They call or fax me what they need done. I go do it (no estimate), and then I fax them a bill.

wait...it gets better

On this bill, I describe what all I did, and at the bottom I write "Total labor and materials $______." 
I don't even tell them HOW I came up with that number, and they don't ask..

Why?

Because they trust me, and they want me to paint for them, whatever the cost.

I don't charge them more than 50~70 an hour either...why?

Because they trust me, and because if they ever thought I was screwing them over..I'd be advertising for work just like the rest of you.


----------



## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

> Because they trust me, and because if they ever thought I was screwing them over..I'd be advertising for work just like the rest of you.


People that advertize don't necessarilly screw customers over.
And I am sure you know 1 man operators you don't want close to your home. 
There are some ethical businesses out there.

Steve, we have been through this before.

It is easier to do word of mouth only, when you are a one man operation.
And you want to paint until you retire, that's great (I mean that)
Some of us don't. We want to run a business.
For me it would be impossible to bring in over $50,000 every month, 
month after month, winter and summer 
and keep everyone happy, making a good living.
No one is wrong here, we are all contractors of different sizes.


----------



## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Agreed.
I have no problem w/you George.

You want to run a large operation, and that's great (I mean that).

This might not have been the best thread to work it out in though.

..and I'll paint until I'm dead. Even though I've made some retirement investments/plans...I can imagine myself as a frail 75 year old..and having some of these people calling and asking if I might still be able to paint their living room one more time...and if I can, I will.


----------



## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

ya know... I guess I LIKE to paint(?)

But not enough to do it for free.

Just ask my wife...she's been wanting me to paint the kitchen for years.

and with that...I'll apologise to Esmeralda. I'm sorry those guys ruined your thread.

see ya


----------



## MakDeco (Jan 17, 2007)

Hey Steve we should get together sometime, you sound a lot like me... I agree with what you have said, all tho I see and respect the point George and some others have made on running a business...


----------



## painter jeff (Dec 5, 2007)

My hat goes off to you for wanting to start a painting business in this market, at this time..... Everyone here has given you good advice, please take it with a grain of salt......

I would never try to say you couldn't do it, because I truly do think you can do it....

The only advice I will give you is;

friends are friends,
&
family is family,


BUT BUSINESS IS BUSINESS


walk softly and carry a big stick


----------



## Steve Richards (Mar 7, 2006)

Sure thing, MaK
But we live about 1000 miles apart.
PM me if you want, and we can talk about some of these bastards behind their backs.

But I don't log in (and thus get a PM) here much.

I mostly just read... unless I decide to stick my foot in my mouth.


----------



## Respond (Jan 8, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> ya know... I guess I LIKE to paint(?)
> 
> But not enough to do it for free.
> 
> ...


This thread isn't ruined! If you don't ask a question that generates a lot of diff opinions, it isn't fun!

I appreciate all the advice. I have been a HO forever and I know that perspective pretty well. I need to see the perspective of the painter/entrepreneur.

I will never love to paint, and I guess I will wind up being a contractor more than a painter (no hissing, please). My profit will be lower than if I was a painter in one of my crews, so maybe I will need to advertise to get more jobs going at once. I will keep an open mind.

Thanks to everyone, and keep the lively debate going.


----------



## Infoseeker (Jan 28, 2008)

Hi all,
this is a first post for me so please be pateint. My name is Ian and I am in a similar situation as Esmeralda. I am researching a painting business start up in Ontario Canada. I have what you would consider limited hands on painting experience, however the prep and paint work i have done i have enjoyed. My intention would be to handle the business end of things AND do the painting myself. 
I have been following this site and others for some time and find all the info to be a huge help.
It seems to me that there are 3 main areas to learn in the painting business. Painting itself, marketing, and estimating.
My question is this : has anyone purchased Andy Thompson's Painting for profits course? He is on the web at startapaintingbusiness.com 
He seems to address most aspects of the painting industry and i'm wondering if his "course" is worth buying before taking the plunge? 
Has anyone purchased his "kit" (or something similar) with good or bad results?
Thanks in advance for any help and best of luck Esmeralda, it sounds like you are really doing your homework.
cheers.


----------

