# sliding miter, or glider?



## LegendConstr (Jan 17, 2008)

New Bosch Glide?? Anyone get one yet? Can't calibrate the old dewalt, demoting it to aluminum work only, where I don't need many bevels. I'm thinking about the new Glide, or an older Bosch slider, (cheap now) but I'm hearing good things about the ridgid 12" slider too. Any suggestions???

Edit: Oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving !!! We're still working!!!!


----------



## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Don't know much about the Bosch, but if you're looking for less rear clearance, you can also check out the Hitachi C12RSH. It's about $350 less than the Bosch, and Hitachi makes a great miter saw. Plus, the models I'm comparing, the Hitachi comes with a laser.

Here is a video of how the compact slider on it works: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zNnkoR54uo

I would be wary of the Bosch simply because there are so many joints on that arm, each with the potential for slop to develop over time. I want to shoot myself for not thinking of the C12RSH kind of slide design 15 years ago. How much simpler can you get? It's similar to the Kapex, but without the insane price tag.


----------



## Kastoria (May 5, 2008)

LegendConstr said:


> New Bosch Glide?? Anyone get one yet? Can't calibrate the old dewalt, demoting it to aluminum work only, where I don't need many bevels. I'm thinking about the new Glide, or an older Bosch slider, (cheap now) but I'm hearing good things about the ridgid 12" slider too. Any suggestions???
> 
> Edit: Oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving !!! We're still working!!!!


Someone on here just got it and there is a long thread about it, just do a search. I have the 12" hitachi slider.


----------



## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Just watched a video of the Bosch, and I have to admit, I love those front mounted bevel controls!


----------



## mgb (Oct 31, 2008)

Remodelor said:


> Don't know much about the Bosch, but if you're looking for less rear clearance, you can also check out the Hitachi C12RSH. It's about $350 less than the Bosch, and Hitachi makes a great miter saw. Plus, the models I'm comparing, the Hitachi comes with a laser.
> 
> Here is a video of how the compact slider on it works:
> 
> ...



only wish they had a 10" model :sad:. 12" isn't the best for finishing work i find.


----------



## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

I have the hitachi 12". i like it but i wish i had a lighter saw


----------



## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Yeah, 64 lbs is heavy. It's like lifting a bag of cement around. Still, to go lighter means expensive alloys. The Kapex is 17 lbs lighter, but 3 times the cost. To me, weight is most important with stuff you lug around all the time, like portable drills. The saw is a once a day pack in pack out sort of thing, so I'll forgive it's heaviness. 

And yeah, a 12" is not ideal for small trim, but I haven't had any real problems yet with mine. The versatility of being able to cut large trim vertically or cutting beams and posts is pretty nice. 80 tooth blade and you're good to go with trim as long as you don't let it heat up :thumbsup:


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

The whole things about the joints in the glider getting worn is bogus. I really do not ever see those joints wearing out. Each joint has a SEALED ball bearing....no dust or dirt is getting in there and ball bearings really take some time to wear out. They are used in motors that spin up to tens of thousands of RPM and yet hold in there for years and years of use at this sustained high speed use. Moving that arm I doubt your getting more then 10 RPM for under 2 seconds each time....

Now your sliders...they wear out. Sliders DO NOT have sealed ball bearing, one one tube there are what is called a linear ball bearing, and the other, where the adjustment nuts are, would be just...guides. The slides, well slide over this...back and forth...back and forth....wearing more and more and more as you use it....

Sliders will wear WAY before the Bosch Hinge system will...

go check out my post for the ups and down compaired to the older (5412) bosch slider.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/gliding-miter-saw-out-85348/


Is starts around page 10...most of the thread was BSing back and forth about other stuff.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Kapex


----------



## Lone Wolf (Feb 14, 2010)

Ok Warner, I'll bite. Why? I read almost everyday on here and seldom post, but I've been bitten by the Green Bug! TS55, OMG, Triton barrel, OMG. 7 systaniers and counting! But why the kapex?


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

b/c it matches the rest of his black and green stuff

I was googling some stuff and found this img.... I don't think that is a proper way to hold the board....


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Hey, that is Brian!! He is a really nice and knowledgeable guy, met him several times.


Why I think the Kapex is better vs. other saws I have owned or used:

Very small footprint
Fairly light weight (47 lbs)
very accurate, I have not touched any adjustments on it in over a year
Dust collection
Variable speed motor
slip clutch
dual 3 way adjustable lasers
huge miter and bevel scale ( accurate to a 1/4 degree for me)
counter balanced bevel.
hold down clamp is awesome
it also comes with and has some awesome accessories that work with it.

I am fond of the color as well.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Lone Wolf said:


> Ok Warner, I'll bite. Why? I read almost everyday on here and seldom post, but I've been bitten by the Green Bug! TS55, OMG, Triton barrel, OMG. 7 systaniers and counting! But why the kapex?


Go test one for your self and it will all become clear. Just like the rest of their stuff it's the best money can buy. No other saw on the market can touch it for features and performance. Yep it's expensive but it ain't your normal run of the mill contractors saw.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Hey, that is Brian!! He is a really nice and knowledgeable guy, met him several times.
> 
> 
> Why I think the Kapex is better vs. other saws I have owned or used:
> ...


Warner I found a reason to buy the 1400 router. Dam its nice compared to my makita plunge router. Oh yeah do you have any links to a 40 tooth blade for my kapex. Looked but ain't had any luck finding one I know that's any good and will fit :thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

http://www.tenryu.com/iw.html

there are some more.

I run a metric panel saw blade (Tenryu) and a standard 10" blade (re-bored matsush!ta) on it along with the factory one.


----------



## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Remodelor said:


> Yeah, 64 lbs is heavy. It's like lifting a bag of cement around.


except a bag of cement is not awkward to lift. The awkwardness factor probably adds several pounds of difficulty :laughing:


----------



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Winchester said:


> except a bag of cement is not awkward to lift. The awkwardness factor probably adds several pounds of difficulty :laughing:


It's not like we have to lift these saws for every cut. Sometimes only one set up and tear down per job, or at most once per day. My old Bosch 10" slide weighs 80 pounds. It was on a Ridgid stand that probably weighs another 40 pounds. Never had any big issues with moving it. Man up guys!


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Warren said:


> It's not like we have to lift these saws for every cut. Sometimes only one set up and tear down per job, or at most once per day. My old Bosch 10" slide weighs 80 pounds. It was on a Ridgid stand that probably weighs another 40 pounds. Never had any big issues with moving it. Man up guys!



No thanks, I will take light weight.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

When I was in the UK I had a 12" makita CMS and the biggest issue with that thing was getting it into an area without taking chunks from peoples walls. The kapex fits through tight hallways, tight corners and small door ways with out any issue at all. Even my 10" makita used to be a pig at times to get into a home.


----------



## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Warren said:


> Man up guys!


I have no problem doing it. And I have even less of a problem bitching about it.

:laughing:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*..........*








.....

B.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

you ever get your saw brian?


----------



## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

The new Makita 10" and 12" saws are hard to beat for the money. Most of the features of much more expensive saws, *green *cough, but without the bank draining.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

jiffy said:


> The new Makita 10" and 12" saws are hard to beat for the money. Most of the features of much more expensive saws, *green *cough, but without the bank draining.


Both nice saws but really not even on the same league as the festool in any way or form. That's like saying my Chevy is hard to beat for the money and has most of the features the expensive cars do. The festool saw is much more refined than any other saw made. It would be like comparing a Chevy to an Audi. They may both get you from A to B, have 4 wheels and have a steering wheel but they are in a different class.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

:w00t::laughing:









Next thing you two will be driving matching Audis and tag teaming up on contactors who don't use Festool!

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

nah, I don't want every one to use them, then how would I be able to set myself apart and charge the kind of money I do.


----------



## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

I don't think anyone is disputing that Festool makes top of the line tools. I think our concern is that the price is *always* a factor, and it doesn't always make financial sense to buy the best. The Kapex's price is not reflective of how much better it is than the other saws. It's reflective of _how much people will pay for it._ Whether it's because of it's actual value, or because of it's name, it's far and away the most expensive miter saw on the market.

If you've got the money for Festool, by all means, have at it. Nobody can argue that they're inferior tools. It's not only a symbol of your devotion to quality, but also your success. Still, if you are sacrificing financial stability for these tools, then that would be a mistake.

I haven't made enough money yet to afford the best, so I read reviews on value for money. I bought the Hitachi because it's shortfalls are mere inconveniences like weight, no positive stops on the bevel, and no counterbalancing of the bevel. It's still a contractor grade tool that will last years if taken care of, and I'm still young so I'll deal with hoofing 65 lbs around. Also, I've seen more than a few contractors get into financial troubles, and pretty soon they're selling those high-end tools and big trucks they just had to have at the time, often for much less than they paid.

Would I have preferred the Makita or the Kapex? Sure, their features are better. But the Makita cost another 300, and the Kapex another 850.

And yes, I was wrong about those bearing eventually causing slop if they're sealed bearings. That Makita looks pretty bad ass.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Yea...*



TBFGhost said:


> you ever get your saw brian?


 
I got her.. I wrote up a response last night... but it got pulled by one of the "Modulators" last night.......I think..maybe it was me...:drink:.:laughing:. at least .......I think I hit the reply button...:laughing: not sure.. 

anyways... 
Yes.. I really like it..:thumbsup: the bearings wearing out..  I agree with your statements TBF.... highly ... unlikly.... but you know how these threads go when it comes to tools.. every one's got their own likings and dislikes.. but I have to say I am over all impressed with it....:thumbsup: 

I didn't throw up the reviews (pics) like you did... I didn't want to steel your thunder.. nice job on that BTW..:thumbup: I have used it.....once..:laughing: still using the Ridgid 12" DCMS.. I still like that saw.. just haven't gotten around to removing the Ridgid,, and mounting the Bosch.. but I'll throw some pics up when I do..... 

Table saw guard....na........CMS ... yes.......


Kudos....:thumbup:

B.


----------



## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Winchester said:


> except a bag of cement is not awkward to lift. The awkwardness factor probably adds several pounds of difficulty :laughing:


Totally agree. That's why I made a plywood case for my saw with handles. Even though it adds 10 lbs of weight, it makes it much more manageable, especially with the wheels I put on the back of it :laughing:

Also, it keeps stuff from dinging it up in transit.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I can't afford to not buy the best.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*please.....*

do we have an "upchuck smiley" available?......... Warner.. I am glad you like your green tools... All hail to Festool...:notworthy all hail to Festool.....:notworthy:notworthy

So if you have have the best...then what we have must be substandard to you... oh well.. Like I said.. we all have our own likes & dislikes... 

B.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Most other things, duh Brian!!!

I make a living doing what I do, I don't want to have to fight a tool to complete the task.
That is all I am getting at.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Do you have any negative comments on the saw? I was dissapointed with the standard vert cut capacity...but that is really about it. I love how quiet the motor is and how it starts up "soft". Its not a soft start motor per say, but it sure doesn't have as much start up kick as the DWs I have used. Dust collection is way better then my 5412 but really isn't good enough to use in a finished house for a full trim out....but I really don't do that anyway. It is nice tho to have it collect most of the dust....less clean-up in the shop. So far that is really the only place I have used the saw, is in the shop.... The fact that the axial glide system takes up no space to the rear of the saw is a huge plus....gives me more working room. And again...i am still amazed at how smooth the saw really is. I hate going to rail style saws now.


I can understand were Warner is coming from...there are many different work styles out there...some are better then others...some there really is no difference...as long as you end up where you want to be then it really doesn't matter.

You really can't just go online and ask what saw is the best. You should go out and at least touch and feel and look at each saw....figure out what ones you like the most...then maybe come on here tell us what you think of each one, what you dislike and if the people who own these saws have anything to add. 

Otherwise you get this free for all "my toy is better then yours"


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*When I finally...*

get around to using her... extensivly,,,I'll know more then,,but in all honesty I don't have any now..only thing is getting used to how smooth it operates....... other than that currently the only equipment that I am having problems with is the one directly behind my forhead..... :jester::laughing:


B.


----------



## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> ..... other than that currently the only equipment that I am having problems with is the one directly behind my forhead..... :jester::laughing: B.


Probably the high pressure fluid switch shut 'er down.:drink:


----------



## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

BCConstruction said:


> Both nice saws but really not even on the same league as the festool in any way or form. That's like saying my Chevy is hard to beat for the money and has most of the features the expensive cars do. The festool saw is much more refined than any other saw made. It would be like comparing a Chevy to an Audi. They may both get you from A to B, have 4 wheels and have a steering wheel but they are in a different class.



Prove it... The Makita is accurate, has as much power, has the same features, belt driven, 15amps, small size, and it has a bigger cutting capacity. The only thing that I can say that the Festool does better is dust collection and most of us don't really "need" the serious dust collection.

I can buy 2 with a gravity stand for the price of the Kapex. 


I watched the Festool East Coast Manager use the Kapex with dust flying out of the front...funny story since the vacuum was not on auto start.

The difference between Audi and Ford is that when you need a water pump on the Audi it costs 3X as much to get repaired and you have to find a special place to have it fixed.


----------



## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

jiffy said:


> ... The Makita is accurate, has as much power, has the same features, belt driven, 15amps, small size, and it has a bigger cutting capacity. The only thing that I can say that the Festool does better is dust collection and most of us don't really "need" the serious dust collection.


Everybody knows their own needs best (at least I hope they do) and dust collection is plainly not a priority for some. I find it very desirable for the work I do which is primarily in the shop or inside almost finished spaces. Which impels me to turn away from the Makita even though I suspect it is, as you suggest, a better value and definitely has much better product support where I am. 

What baffles me is why most of the manufacturers seem to pay so little attention to dust collection. Surely it would be simple for Makita et al to either design cleaner (and hence also safer) machines or make effective optional attachments available. Heck, I could design the stuff better myself.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

jiffy said:


> Prove it... The Makita is accurate, has as much power, has the same features, belt driven, 15amps, small size, and it has a bigger cutting capacity. The only thing that I can say that the Festool does better is dust collection and most of us don't really "need" the serious dust collection.
> 
> I can buy 2 with a gravity stand for the price of the Kapex.
> 
> ...


 
I would like to know how the east coast manager used the kapex with the auto start not on because the saw won't function unless it is set to auto start because if the vac is off the saw is off :blink:

Also what's a special place to get the Audi fixed. If it was me I would take it to the dealer and not some special place :blink: just like i would take my kapex to the dealer. 

Also the makita does not have any where near the features of the kapex


But anyway lets compaire what you get with the kapex which aint on almost every other saw

Counter Spring Balanced Bevel 
The bevel adjustment on the Kapex is counter spring balanced meaning that you can position the bevel at any angle and the head will stay in position even when it is not locked in place. This makes angle adjustment much less tedious and more accurate. Bevel gauges are on both sides of the saw for quick, easy reference. Using the micro adjustment knob, the Kapex can be dialed in very accurately to fractions of a degree. 

FastFix Blade Changes 
The Kapex features Festool's patented FastFix blade change system. Turning the FastFix knob locks the arbor, mechanically locks out the trigger and allows the blade to be changed with a single hand. Blade changes couldn't be any easier! A cupped steel arbor nut prevents accidental over-torquing and damage to the saw and blade.

Dual Lasers
Easily align cuts from the left or right side of the Kapex using the dual lasers. The lasers clearly define the material which will be removed during the cut. Using the three axis adjustment controls, you have complete control to fine-tune the lasers. A conveniently placed button can be used to turn on the laser without powering on the saw. The lasers are electrically powered and require no batteries.

Soft Start
Soft start feature gradually increases the speed of the motor on start up. This prevents larger tools from sudden movements when starting. And the heavy duty motors also have temperature and current overload protection.

MMC Speed Control
The Kapex saw has electronic speed control with soft-start circuitry. The electronic controller will maintain the motor speed even as the load changes. The speed control is infinitely variable from 1400 to 3400 RPM. The optimal speed of the saw is predominately determined by the type of material being cut.

Lightweight 
Compact FootprintThe Magnesium alloy base of the Kapex was designed to be extremely rigid and durable yet very lightweight when compared to other 10" miter saws. At only 47 pounds, the Kapex is truly a portable power tool. The compact footprint allows the Kapex to be placed against a wall when being used saving valuable space in your work environment. Rubber feet protect the work surface. 

Micro Bevel Control
Up Front gear-drive mechanism, enabling dial in precise bevels without supporting the weight of the saw head. The bevel scale is also much larger, so there is less guess-work involved in setting a specific cutting angle.

Slip Clutch
permits the blade to slip slightly, in the event of a binding condition.

Tail Mitre Latch
The tall miter latch is used for cutting boards in the vertical position, such as mitering baseboard material. In this cutting position, the height of the cut is maximized. The miter latch holds the saw head slightly forward from its normal position, and also increases the maximum depth that the saw can plunge downward.

MiterFast™
The MiterFast™ angle transfer tool converts a corner angle measurement into a miter setting. The miter line in the center of the tool is always at the midpoint of the two angle arms, and when lined up with the saw’s laser, provides the proper miter angle for the measured corner.

Bevel Lock Knob 
Use the Bevel Lock Knob conveniently located on the top of the Kapex to control the bevel positive detents and to lock the bevel angle. The counter spring balanced head on the Kapex allows you to position the bevel and let go of the saw with the head moving. Use the fine adjustment knob to control bevel angles in fractions of a degree.
The bevel knob has three settings: positive detents at 0 and -45 degrees, free movement between -45 and +45 degrees and free movement up to ±47 degrees. Bevels can be made to the left or right and the bevel gauge appears on both sides of the saw.

Rail Forward Design
The Kapex features a rail forward design which increases precision and creates a compact footprint. The rails are robust at 30mm in diameter and are wide apart. This prevents head play to ensure smooth, accurate cuts every time. The rail forward design also allow the Kapex to be placed against a wall while being used which saves valuable work space. The compact footprint also makes transport and storage easier. 

Ergonomic Handle 
PositionA center-positioned handle allows you to make cuts with either hand making it easier to view the cut. Combine the Kapex with the MFT/3-Kapex multifunction table to place the saw at the optimal work height for greater comfort. A two-stage trigger helps prevent accidental triggering. 

Dust Hood
The Kapex features a dust hood which is responsible for directing the ejection of saw dust from the blade into the dust collection port. This pliable rubber hood arrests chips and helps the Kapex achieve up to 91% dust extraction when using a 36mm dust extractor hose reducing the time spent cleaning up.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

91%......I thought it would be better then that? Can you or warner do a bunch of 12" cross cuts on 3/4" ply on a clean surface and get a video or photo of the after effects? Maybe 91% is alot better then I see in my head.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> 91%......I thought it would be better then that? Can you or warner do a bunch of 12" cross cuts on 3/4" ply on a clean surface and get a video or photo of the after effects? Maybe 91% is alot better then I see in my head.


 
I can do some 2x8 cross cuts in the morning. i aint got no ply spare at the moment. 91% is pretty impressive though. if you remove the vac from the saw you get a stream of dust shoot out the end like a water hose. When vac is conected you get a small build up of dust around the fence but hardly any at all. nothing like my makita 10" used to be like. i would guess the makita was around 50-60% efficent with vac connected.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> I can do some 2x8 cross cuts in the morning. i aint got no ply spare at the moment. 91% is pretty impressive though. if you remove the vac from the saw you get a stream of dust shoot out the end like a water hose. When vac is conected you get a small build up of dust around the fence but hardly any at all. nothing like my makita 10" used to be like. i would guess the makita was around 50-60% efficent with vac connected.


:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The only dust left behind, falls on the table right behind the saw.

I could cut all day with it and there is that same little pile. I hardly see any get on the floor or ground.

Take the hose off though and it shoots sawdust about 15' in the air.:laughing:


----------



## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

Dust collection question.......

What do you use for a setup when you have the kapex AND the circular saw setup?










Do you have 2 vacuums?
Do you switch the vac hose everytime you switch tools??


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tcleve4911 said:


> Dust collection question.......
> 
> What do you use for a setup when you have the kapex AND the circular saw setup?
> 
> ...



I have a Y piece for my CT Hoses. You still need to plug the tool into the auto start outlet on the vac though.

Yes I did end up with a second vac as well, took me a couple years though.


----------



## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Almost all of those features are really, really nice.

Maybe someday when Festool starts reaching a wider market, their prices will drop, but since right now they're only available in expensive niche tool stores and online, the masses are unaware. I have yet to see a contractor in KC with a set, and I run into various subs on jobs all the time. Also, for a guy like me, that saw would be an egregious waste of money as I don't have the resources to facilitate such a purchase. Overall, with the Kapex, I'm unimpressed only because of the price. Anyone can make a great tool, but that doesn't make it good value.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*the saga continues....*








.



B.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Remodelor said:


> Almost all of those features are really, really nice.
> 
> Maybe someday when Festool starts reaching a wider market, their prices will drop, but since right now they're only available in expensive niche tool stores and online, the masses are unaware. I have yet to see a contractor in KC with a set, and I run into various subs on jobs all the time. Also, for a guy like me, that saw would be an egregious waste of money as I don't have the resources to facilitate such a purchase. Overall, with the Kapex, I'm unimpressed only because of the price. *Anyone can make a great tool, but that doesn't make it good value.*


They won't drop their prices. They don't want to compete with the off the shelf stuff that is available at HD, lowes, and other stores. That is not their game. 

*Right from the inside front page of their catalog:

Festool has a history of producing tools that last for years. Unlike most tools found at the "big box" stores, we build tools that are designed to meet performance requirements, not price points. * 
So they have no desire to cheapen their tools up to meet a price point that everyone can afford. 

Think what you will but, that makes me feel good when I buy a new one, knowing there were no compromises or anything that was skimped on.

It actually makes it a great value. My kapex is my work horse. There have been 1000's of feet of trim and hardwood cut with that thing and it has been a great asset in stacking the Benny's up in the bank.


----------



## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> The only dust left behind, falls on the table right behind the saw.
> 
> I could cut all day with it and there is that same little pile. I hardly see any get on the floor or ground.


That is the key isn't it, I want all the fine dust which normally gets airborne and wafts around to be collected by the set up. Any larger bits that promptly fall and remain on the table are not a problem.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Sisyphus said:


> That is the key isn't it, I want all the fine dust which normally gets airborne and wafts around to be collected by the set up. Any larger bits that promptly fall and remain on the table are not a problem.


That is exactly what happens. The larger bits that get thrown out and missed by the vac just end up around the back of my fence. A whole day of cutting 2x8's takes a 20 second clean up with the vac at the end of the day. 100% dust extraction would be nice but I would guess almost impossible on a job site saw.


----------



## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

BCConstruction said:


> I would like to know how the east coast manager used the kapex with the auto start not on because the saw won't function unless it is set to auto start because if the vac is off the saw is off :blink:
> 
> Also what's a special place to get the Audi fixed. If it was me I would take it to the dealer and not some special place :blink: just like i would take my kapex to the dealer.
> 
> ...





> I would like to know how the east coast manager used the kapex with the auto start not on because the saw won't function unless it is set to auto start because if the vac is off the saw is off :blink:


Well, the saw was spitting dust all over the customers and one asked if the vacuum was actually on and working. That was the situation at the demo and I found it unusual because I know the dust collection should have been working better than it was especially at a demo.



Nice features that are not all unique to the Festool Kapex.

Makita has the following:



15.0 Amp Direct Drive Motor
Powerful 15.0 AMP direct drive motor requires less maintenance and delivers 3,200 RPM

Soft Start-up
Soft start feature for smooth start-ups

Speed Control
Electronic speed control maintains constant speed under load for smoother, higher quality cutting

Largest Crown Capacity and Largest Cross Cut
Increased capacity for up to 6-5/8" crown molding (vertically nested), 4-3/4" baseboard (vertical), and 12" crosscuts at 90°

4-Rail Design
Compact design with a patented 4-Steel Rail Sliding System further increases rigidity to produce superior cuts

Adjustable Laser
Independent laser indicates line-of-cut whether blade is turning or not, with on/off switch and micro-adjustments for precise "left-of-blade" or "right-of-blade" cutting



 Compact design with a patented 4-Steel Rail Sliding System further increases rigidity to produce superior cuts

 Exclusive 6 linear ball bearings engineered to deliver "dead-on" accurate cuts

 Increased capacity for up to 6-5/8" crown molding (vertically nested), 4-3/4" baseboard (vertical), and 12" crosscuts at 90°

 Innovative direct drive gearbox and guard system is engineered for increased vertical cutting capacity

 Miters 0°-52° left and 0°-60° right, with positive stops at 0°, 15°, 22.5°, 31.6°, and 45° (left and right)

 Less weight (saw at 53.3 lbs.) and the most compact design in its class for easy jobsite portability

 Electronic speed control maintains constant speed under load for smoother, higher quality cutting

 Dual rear-handle bevel lock is easily accessible and adjusts 0-45° (left and right), with positive stops at 22.5°, 33.9° and 45° (left and right)

 Ergonomic rubberized horizontal D-handle design for better fit and added comfort
 Easy one-touch miter lock for accurate adjustments and increased efficiency

 Replaceable stainless steel miter scale features large and easy-to-read markings

 Large precision machined aluminum base supports material for more efficient cutting

 Easy-to-read dual bevel scale for more precise adjustments

 See-through blade guard system for greater visibility of blade and line of cut

 Easy one-step blade changes for increased efficiency

 Rubberized feet help tool remain stationary

 Large adjustable fence levers for fast and easy adjustments
Oversized trigger switch for better fit, added comfort and easier operation

 Includes 5-position jobsite miter saw stand with 9 ft. material extensions for easy jobsite portability and quick set-ups


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

This is what the axial glide yeilded when it made 10 cross cuts in 3/4" birch ply which was 11" in width. It is also using a full kerf blade...which does produce a heck of a lot more dust then the thin kerf guys.

Ridgid 5.0 hp shop vac, old, but freshly beat out filter and 24' of 1 1/4" hose.










yeah there is some on the floor, but it was too hard to capture with my camera phone and the crappy light. Oddly enough I was thinking the same thing that was just said above....most of the fine dust is captured...I didn't have any clouds of dust that I could see or feel....

It does limit the mess to the area around the saw, which is nice when I am working in a garagem but outdoors I don't bother.
I doesn't sound anywhere up to par with the Kapex as far as that goes but I didn't expect it to be.


----------



## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

Thanks TBFGhost for the info on the new Bosch and dust collection, that is exactly what I have been wondering about.

I have never used a vac when cutting outside either but I have worn a mask when cutting PT and am thinking that a vac might be a more comfortable and safer for "all" alternative.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Sisyphus said:


> Thanks TBFGhost for the info on the new Bosch and dust collection, that is exactly what I have been wondering about.
> 
> I have never used a vac when cutting outside either but I have worn a mask when cutting PT and am thinking that a vac might be a more comfortable and safer for "all" alternative.


 
It does take care of that whole air born cloud of dust. There was something in the Maple Plywood that I didn't like last job....I was using all my tools without a vac and I was sneezing like crazy...hooked up the vac to the rail, table and miter saws and I was fine.

That was Maple ply from Atlantic Plywood...a supplier in Northeast NJ....

A job since then, and one I am working on now, I am using Birch ply from Home Depot. $44 a sheet...flawless one face, back has minor, tight knots and there is nothing in it that makes me sneeze.

They sell thr Birch, Maple and Red Oak at my HD....I think I found where I will be getting my sheet goods from... sorry to say but the lumberyards suck for this stuff.

http://www.columbiaforestproducts.com/Products.aspx/HardwoodPlywood

EDIT: and the veneer is thicker....


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I always use my vac on my kapex, inside or out.


----------



## Sisyphus (Nov 1, 2010)

It makes good sense to use the vac on cuts, prevent developing allergies and other health problems rather than trying to live with them afterward. A clean site is always nice too, for so many reasons.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

jiffy said:


> Well, the saw was spitting dust all over the customers and one asked if the vacuum was actually on and working. That was the situation at the demo and I found it unusual because I know the dust collection should have been working better than it was especially at a demo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So out of all the above features I quoted the makita has only the same size cutting capacity which is the norm for 10" saws and Soft start. Also the 15amp motor is more hassle than its worth. When my old one used to struggle on some cuts it would always trip the breaker. My kapex even with the vac running on the same circuit rarely trips the breaker.

I'm no festool fanboy by far. I loved my makita 10" saw and wish I had kept it for a spare saw but they are in no way in the same league as each other.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I always use my vac on my kapex, inside or out.



I'm starting to do that now. It's nice because you don't get all the dust blowing back in your face.


----------



## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

BCConstruction said:


> So out of all the above features I quoted the makita has only the same size cutting capacity which is the norm for 10" saws and Soft start. Also the 15amp motor is more hassle than its worth. When my old one used to struggle on some cuts it would always trip the breaker. My kapex even with the vac running on the same circuit rarely trips the breaker.
> 
> I'm no festool fanboy by far. I loved my makita 10" saw and wish I had kept it for a spare saw but they are in no way in the same league as each other.


We can agree to disagree. The Makita is very much in the same league, except for the dust collection. Try the new 10" LS1016L or the new 12" LS1216L.


You only see the cutting capacity as the same. You don't see ergonomic handle, soft start, current control, and many others.

15amp motor an issue...I have never heard that to be a problem in a miter saw or for it to struggle being a direct drive motor. Of course insufficient power can have that effect.


The Makita is a great saw at a huge price savings. 

Mercedes is a nicer car than any Chevy. It all depends on the usage of the tool.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

IIRC he did have a LS1016 prior to the KAPEX. Or was that Five Star?


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

jiffy said:


> We can agree to disagree. The Makita is very much in the same league, except for the dust collection. Try the new 10" LS1016L or the new 12" LS1216L.
> 
> 
> You only see the cutting capacity as the same. You don't see ergonomic handle, soft start, current control, and many others.
> ...


The handle on the makita is nothing like the festool handle. Have you even used either tool? Sounds to me like your just looking at pictures online:blink: again like I said the only features the makita has that the kaepx has out of all I posted is soft start and current control as you call it. Technicly they are controlled by the same component but MMC let's you control speed also so the makita really only has cutting capacity that makes it even in that department. So the makita has nothing on the kapex. I liked the makita also but there zero comparison in what saws more feature filled and better quality. But again price reflects this. You don't get Bently quality with chevy pricing.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> IIRC he did have a LS1016 prior to the KAPEX. Or was that Five Star?


Nope I has LS1013FL. I was close to buying the 16 but after taking a closer look and reading more and more reviews I kept my 13 I was not even in the market for a kapex when I decided that. The handle was a main reason I didn't want the saw. It felt awkward and put you at a funny angle to the saw when cutting with your left hand. Also the double rail system was a nice idea but the less moving parts the better. The funny thing is the 13 gets reviewed as the better saw still. It don't have the capacity of the 16 but feels a much better built saw. Prob why they are still more expensive than the 16.


----------



## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

BCConstruction said:


> The handle on the makita is nothing like the festool handle. Have you even used either tool? Sounds to me like your just looking at pictures online:blink: again like I said the only features the makita has that the kaepx has out of all I posted is soft start and current control as you call it. Technicly they are controlled by the same component but MMC let's you control speed also so the makita really only has cutting capacity that makes it even in that department. So the makita has nothing on the kapex. I liked the makita also but there zero comparison in what saws more feature filled and better quality. But again price reflects this. You don't get Bently quality with chevy pricing.



Again I doubt anyone is concerned with our differences in opinion. I can agree to disagree.

I agree that you can't buy Bentley quality with Chevy pricing. But, I don't think the Kapex is so far ahead of the Makita. I think the only thing the Kapex does "better" is dust collection. Everything else would be a personal preference between these two saws. 

Have you used the Makita LS1016L...you admit you haven't. I have used the Kapex and I have seen both handles. Both companies claim to have an "ergonomic" handle.

I don't find many of those "features" as ground breaking as you do. I listed specs on the Makita too that are different than the Kapex. I don't necessarily call these features as I would call them differences in design. Every company touts every little detail as a "feature". Dewalt claims their D shaped air vent, which is patented, as a feature on all of their cordless tools.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

....My saw still looks cooler then both....and THAT is the most important feature....Plus its say BOSCH in big bold letters and even homeowners respect that! Festool? What is that? Never heard of it...must be some cheap Koren POS....lol. For Every Static Tool Owner Over Looks. Look Over Our Tools Specific Electric Features.




Nana nana boo boo....


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

Look Over Our Tools Suction Enhanced Features.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> ....My saw still looks cooler then both....and THAT is the most important feature....Plus its say BOSCH in big bold letters and even homeowners respect that! Festool? What is that? Never heard of it...must be some cheap Koren POS....lol. For Every Static Tool Owner Over Looks. Look Over Our Tools Specific Electric Features.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sometimes having brands people dot recognize is a great idea. Just last week I was working at our warehouse. I left all my tools setup when I left for lunch and left all the doors open. This was a bad idea as I was held up at lunch and come back an hour later than I thought I would. Didn't realize at the time but some tools had been taken. I had taken my dewalt belt sander, saw stand, old 14v drill and dewalt palm sander in to show a mate who wanted to take a look at them. I didn't know until he turned up that they were gone. Someone had walked in and taken all my dewalt stuff and didn't touch my TS55, CT33, numerous sustainers with all sorts of power tools in them and last but not least my kapex. They even had to walk past all that stuff to get to the dewalt stuff.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> Sometimes having brands people dot recognize is a great idea. Just last week I was working at our warehouse. I left all my tools setup when I left for lunch and left all the doors open. This was a bad idea as I was held up at lunch and come back an hour later than I thought I would. Didn't realize at the time but some tools had been taken. I had taken my dewalt belt sander, saw stand, old 14v drill and dewalt palm sander in to show a mate who wanted to take a look at them. I didn't know until he turned up that they were gone. Someone had walked in and taken all my dewalt stuff and didn't touch my TS55, CT33, numerous sustainers with all sorts of power tools in them and last but not least my kapex. They even had to walk past all that stuff to get to the dewalt stuff.


 
And that goes to show you what your avg Dewalt owner is.... :laughing: A theif and a moron....


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*you know what I would rather discuss...*

what we do with our tools.....:thumbsup: doesn't matter what model... what brand.... what we spent...... it's the talent applied to the tool.and it's accuracy...time & time again......:thumbsup: I like the discussions with problems with the tools we all consider..now that's informative.. and for the most part no one ever mentions accuracy... that's all I care about.. honestly...

this opinion on saws... it never ends... I have had my ridged for 6 years.. has never let me down... next guy comes along will say it's junk... that does not matter to me at all .. and I am not insulted... all I care about is the accuracy and that it user friendly.. thats it.. bottom line.. all these other FEATURES>.. sure there great.. and I mean that.. but the bottom line is how it all seams together accuratly..... and THATS what is important.. what saws you guys all use to do that.. it doesn't matter........ but if there are problems with a certain tool.. :thumbsup:lets talk about it!:thumbsup:
B.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

HEY!!!! NO stoping the "mine is bigger then yours" fight....you just can't do it.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*round II*








,,,,
B.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Well my saws the most expensive so I win :thumbsup:


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I also posted photos of mine....Let me see YOURS!  And as a fellow Axial Glide owner, you should be helping me grind these FESTOOL snobs into the very dust they are soo effecient at collecting!









Whereas the Imperial German Government has committed repeated acts of war against the Government and the people of the United States of America; Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress Assembled, that the state of war between the United States and the Imperial German Government which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and that the President be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Imperial German Government; and to bring the conflict to a successful termination all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.



EDIT: I better add this,:jester::jester::jester:, before someone goes off the deep end. :w00t:


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

TBFGhost said:


> I also posted photos of mine....Let me see YOURS!


If you want to see mine perhaps you should ask via PM's :w00t:


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> If you want to see mine perhaps you should ask via PM's :w00t:


 
Don't be shy....we have been "friends" now for a few years...I promise I won't touch. :blink:


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Headlines today "Saws & politics....*

"This just in" ......... :surrender: 


B.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)




----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I will just take a picture of a pile of cash.

I like tools that make me cash faster and the piles bigger.:laughing::laughing:


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I will just take a picture of a pile of cash.
> 
> I like tools that make me cash faster and the piles bigger.:laughing::laughing:


Here he is after a day using the kapex :thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

What events happened that led up to that picture being taken?


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> What events happened that led up to that picture being taken?


That's about as gansta as it gets


----------



## jiffy (Oct 21, 2007)

Does the money in the diaper help with absorbency?:clap:


----------



## Fyrzowt (Jul 3, 2008)

jiffy said:


> Does the money in the diaper help with absorbency?:clap:


Yeah, but then you can launder it.

Edit: Sorry, late night humor and I don't know how to delete a post.


----------

