# Building wrap under shingles?



## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm subing the shingle install on my current project. It's an out of town job, so I found a local roofer who comes highly recommended. I met with him and he seems to know his stuff.

But, he wants to put building wrap down instead of tar paper. There will of course be ice and water to start.

I've never heard of anyone doing this, not so sure it's a good idea. But I suppose it is doing the same job as the tar paper.

Comments? Anyone doing this?


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## JWilliams (Nov 11, 2008)

what type of building wrap is he talking about?


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Is it synthetic roof underlayment?

Could be his way of keeping the shingles from sticking to the i&w?


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

He's talking about Typar.


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## Slyfox (Dec 22, 2007)

Typar makes House Wrap, Window Flashing and Roof Underlayment,
thus my guess is they did not plan on their house wrap being used as a roof underlayment.


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## jeffatsquan (Mar 16, 2009)

katoman said:


> He's talking about Typar.


 
You either found the most advanced roofer on the planet.

Or you need to keep looking.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Apparently Typar does make a roof unerlayment. It's called Roof wrap 30.

Looks like their regular typar, but is designed for under shingles. I went to the typar site.

Who knew? 

So I did find the most advanced roofer :thumbsup:


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*no..*

I have seen that being used here on a few jobs.... 

Brian.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

I'd make sure it says Typar Roof Wrap 30 on the contract. Most roofers are not that advanced.


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## jeffatsquan (Mar 16, 2009)

katoman said:


> Apparently Typar does make a roof unerlayment. It's called Roof wrap 30.
> 
> Looks like their regular typar, but is designed for under shingles. I went to the typar site.
> 
> ...


Great, next time you see him ask him is their an advantage over Tri-flex
which I really like.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> I have seen that being used here on a few jobs....
> 
> Brian.


party pooper.


Jmiller - yes, I'll make sure it's the right stuff, thanks.


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## smeagol (May 13, 2008)

I can't wait till we reroof some of the the houses with synthetic felt. Just tie one end to the forklift and rip it off in rows. May need a storm though I've only seen it for a couple years now.


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## davy crockett (Dec 19, 2007)

I used Tyvek once,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lost 4 roofers and 14 sq shingles all down the same side.:w00t::w00t::w00t:

JUS KIDDIN!!!!


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

smeagol said:


> I can't wait till we reroof some of the the houses with synthetic felt. Just tie one end to the forklift and rip it off in rows. May need a storm though I've only seen it for a couple years now.


No offense, but I hope the builders and remodelers go back to doing what they do best instead of taking the roofing and siding jobs that I've been doing my entire working life.


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## smeagol (May 13, 2008)

Why so sad? You not like competition? I'm just always looking for ways to less stoop labor.Judging by the felts strength/power of the machine this would work well. 

We had had hail 3 years ago and went balls deep by purchasing dump trailers,and a bucket for the forklift. I made a quicktach plate with a ball hitch for our bobcat and its great for moving the trailers under eaves. It just makes us more money.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

smeagol said:


> Why so sad? You not like competition?


Competition is great if the playing field is level, but roofers ins rates are far higher than carpentry/remodeling.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

This particular project, the shingle job is straight forward - two sides, no valleys, no hips, piece of cake to do.

So why would I use a roofer? 

- it's not my trade
- the pro roofer will come with a crew and do it in one day
- keeps the economy going
- I can focus on my trade, carpentry
- I know it will be done right, professionally

I'm tired of the guys who are jack of all trades, master of none. That's why I'll give the work to the licenced, professional tradesman. If it costs more, so be it. I for one will not promote hack work just to save a few bucks.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

katoman said:


> So why would I use a roofer?


- To have someone to call when it leaks. 

To me that seems like the biggest benefit to the GC's that hire us (other than not having to carry the insurance). You have to pick a company you think is going to be around for awhile though.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

smeagol said:


> Why so sad? You not like competition? I'm just always looking for ways to less stoop labor.Judging by the felts strength/power of the machine this would work well.
> 
> We had had hail 3 years ago and went balls deep by purchasing dump trailers,and a bucket for the forklift. I made a quicktach plate with a ball hitch for our bobcat and its great for moving the trailers under eaves. It just makes us more money.


Competition is great, especially when based on quality and craftsmanship. Sadly this industry is just "get it done quick and it better not leak". 
Like I said, no offense. I don't know you or anything about you.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Seeing lots of builders turned insurance restoration specialists/exterior remodelers in recent years. My only hope is,
1. They go out of business like they should have done when the new construction boom ended.
2. They get audited by there insurance company for not paying roofing workmans comp and roofing liability insurance, causing them to go out of business.
3. The INS shows up to there sites.
4. They get so many call backs they realize they bit off more than they can chew.

My builders who still still build new construction and interior remodeling just turn the roofing leads over. Of course on the back side they get a discount on work done on there projects. We both come out winners and nobodys toes get stepped one.

I'm all for competetiong it keeps us honest. However competition is best on a level playing field.

Last week we did a new roof in Edina, MN (you MN guys know that area!). The framers bid to roof the house but the home owner said she already had a roofer. In talking to the owner of the framing crew he said the Northfield hail in 06 turned him into an insurance restoration contractor overnight. He said he got $300 a square on roofs. I told him at that time he could have gotten $350-450+ a square all day long... Didn't have much to say after that! 

How many people would want a crew of framers who may have built hundreds of homes to roof there house when they may have only done a handfull of roofs? Roofing should be done by roofers. Framing should be done by framers. Siding should be done by siders. Of course there are a few out there who have mastered all three!


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## CutEdgeDesign (Aug 20, 2010)

I've seen crews that strictly do roofs haul ass to get a house done in one day and it looks like crap. They cut corners, hire idiots, and use crap for materials. Then on the house next door a company that can frame, side, hang gutters, and even rock, trim out, tile, etc. takes two days with half the guys and does a quality job. The difference is that one cares and one doesn't. Has nothing to do with steppin on toes. I would rather offer multiple services if I had the tools and knowledge to do it. Less likely to get burned out or run out of work. :thumbup:


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## jcs0009 (May 10, 2009)

Per House Wrap... Check out Polaralum ??? its THERMAL BARRIER and I do not think it voids the shingle warranty; like the radiant barrier does... 

Per Quality. My 3rd Generation Mexican National roofing crew can complete 150 sq in a weekend. These guys travel all over the continent. Their insurance always expired the day before yesterday. Their work is done fast and is good as the materials the clients pay for. They are cheap too. And often show up with 15 guys. 

I recently used a two man American crew and it took 3 days to complete a simple 15 SQ Gable. NEVER DO IT AGAIN.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

You pimpin' Hoes on the side too? Maybe a few dime bags or an eight ball?


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## bhock (Feb 17, 2009)

jcs0009 said:


> Per House Wrap... Check out Polaralum ??? its THERMAL BARRIER and I do not think it voids the shingle warranty; like the radiant barrier does...
> 
> Per Quality. My 3rd Generation Mexican National roofing crew can complete 150 sq in a weekend. These guys travel all over the continent. *Their insurance always expired the day before yesterday.* Their work is done fast and is good as the materials the clients pay for. They are cheap too. And often show up with 15 guys.
> 
> I recently used a two man American crew and it took 3 days to complete a simple 15 SQ Gable. NEVER DO IT AGAIN.


You sir should ...... I can't think of what to say.:furiouswell I can but would rather not be banned)


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## jeffatsquan (Mar 16, 2009)

CutEdgeDesign said:


> I've seen crews that strictly do roofs haul ass to get a house done in one day and it looks like crap. They cut corners, hire idiots, and use crap for materials. Then on the house next door a company that can frame, side, hang gutters, and even rock, trim out, tile, etc. takes two days with half the guys and does a quality job. The difference is that one cares and one doesn't. Has nothing to do with steppin on toes. I would rather offer multiple services if I had the tools and knowledge to do it. Less likely to get burned out or run out of work. :thumbup:


 very well stated I agree totally
especially the part about offering multiple services as a way not to get burned out or run out of work
keep posting


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

bhock said:


> You sir should ...... I can't think of what to say.:furiouswell I can but would rather not be banned)


 
it's not worth wasting your breath with these kind of guys:no:


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

CutEdgeDesign said:


> I would rather offer multiple services if I had the tools and knowledge to do it. Less likely to get burned out or run out of work. :thumbup:


I have the tools and knowledge to hook up a new circuit in your house, but that doesn't mean my insurance will cover it if something other than me gets burned.


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## Rustbucket (May 22, 2009)

There are some people out there that are very good at several trades, and can make a decent living at it. I knew a guy in Seattle that would build 3-4 houses per year, and usually did the site work, foundation, framing and trim (with a crew) on each house. He did quite well, and had a good reputation for quality. He was a craftsman, and truly enjoyed his work. He made money too, though he always said he made his money on the lot. He knew he could probably sub out more work and make more money, but that's not what he wanted to do. 

I knew another guy who would do one to one and a half houses per year, and do almost EVERYTHING! With the exception of electrical and maybe plumbing, that is. Again, the quality of construction was always very good, but he could never make money at it. Why? He wasn't efficient at all those trades. It took too long. Interest payments on the construction loan would eat most of his profits. 

BTW, both of these guys were above board with regards to licenses and insurance. 

The moral of the story is that some people can do a few things well, but nobody can do everything well. I'm all for keeping crew busy, but watching a professional roofer lay down a quality installation still amazes me. These guys that do it every day are so fast that it just doesn't make economical sense to do it yourself. 

I'm not saying you can't reach that level, it's just that it doesn't make sense to even try if it's not your primary business. You'll just lose money on every roof you do for the first several years. If you do 5 roof a year, you're not going to compete with somebody that does 5 roofs a week.

Insurance is another factor that is brought up often. The cost of some of these policies could very well make it even less profitable to take on some of these jobs. If you're not insured for the work you do, even if you are good at it, you are a hack.


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## jimAKAblue (Aug 15, 2010)

dougger222 said:


> Seeing lots of builders turned insurance restoration specialists/exterior remodelers in recent years. My only hope is,
> 1. They go out of business like they should have done when the new construction boom ended.
> 2. They get audited by there insurance company for not paying roofing workmans comp and roofing liability insurance, causing them to go out of business.
> 3. The INS shows up to there sites.
> ...


Maybe the framer could learn to roof. There must of been a day when you didn't know how to roof and you learned.


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## RickRoof (Mar 24, 2011)

davy crockett said:


> I used Tyvek once,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lost 4 roofers and 14 sq shingles all down the same side.:w00t::w00t::w00t:
> 
> JUS KIDDIN!!!!


No joke! Most of these roofing underlayments are slippery as hell! We have found that Palisade by SDP has the best non slip surface. The light blue color also keeps the roof cooler. Surprisingly less expensive than GAF, very close in price to TriFlex.


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