# Tile in my kitchen HELP



## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

My wife hired a contractor to install tile in our kitchen. When they removed the exiting lanolium the sub floor had some holes and other issues so they installed a layer of cement board. This raised the elevation of the floor quite a bit. I have no problem with that but now my fridge is still on the old sub floor elevation. 

Question: Shouldnt they have pulled the fridge to install the cement board and tile there also? I believe yes. But I need a confirmation before I approach these guys.


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## Norrrrrrrrrrrrm (Jan 20, 2007)

Yeah they should have tiled under the fridge to do the job properly. Sorry to say but I think you hired some hacks that don't care about quality. There should have been better expanation on what the end result would be.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

There's holes in the sub? Other issues? You have more problems than just with the fridge unfortunately. Cement board adds no strength to the floor, it is just an isolation membrane to separate the tile from the wood. Are your joists strong enough to even support tile? How thick is the sub? What is the joist span, size and spacing?

Yes, they should have pulled the fridge, these guys are not pros.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

All is not lost you can still tile under the fridge now. Did they tile under the stove? What about the dishwasher? What did the contract say? 

Sounds like somebody went with the lowest bidder...









Was this through Home Depot?


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

Yeah, they should have pulled out all your appliances and laid backerboard then tile THEN put your appliances back.
They just did it the lazy hack way.

There's probably no thinset to fill voids under the backerboard either.
Is your grout sealed?

What you should do is pull out the fridge, add some backerboard, then tile.
You should remove the cut piece of tile they did around the fridge and put a whole piece there. Just fill in the gap and grout.

What reveivl is talking about is deflection issues pending on your subfloor and joists. 
Follow this link to plug in your information and see if your floor is rated for tile: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/deflecto.pl


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

Geeeeeeze you guys are brutal. I feel like I've been stabed by a million daggers. How did I end up on this end of the stick? Oh, I know how, I trusted my wife to do this. 

OK, as it turns out they didnt pull the fridge last night because there wasnt anyplace to put it. They pulled it today, with all the appliances and extended the cement board in those ares

The sub floor isnt that bad and niether are the joists, but back from when we did the alterations and revnovations a few years ago there were holes here and there from moving walss and plumbing stuff that were just apparently to many to consider doing the flowable leveling with wire they were going to do.

Anyway, I guess I panicked. But better safe than sorry. Thanks to everyone for the help and info


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

Vinny,

You sounded surprised that they installed a tile backer board after removing the sheet vinyl and maybe the 1/4" underlayment. Installing a cement board or isolation membrane over wooden subfloors is the norm. What would they have done otherwise? What was the agreement? They were going to use a self leveling cement (SLC) instead? Was the floor flat?

Jaz


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

yea,
it's kind of a no no to install tile over wood


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## stonecraft (Sep 19, 2007)

*kitchen hacks*

By any chance was the name of the company called Hit & Run Tile co.--i think that the company has a francise here in the north jersey i keep hearing lot.s of people talking about them and their good price,s and craftsmanship ===all kidding aside they should have used black tar paper first and not removed the linoleum the linoleum is not reccomended to be removed because of the potential content of asbestes during the removal and after the airborn asbestes is floating around airborn in the house well after they are gone 1st goes black tar paper then 2nd goes galvanized wire mesh 3rd the tile should be put down with a white laytex modified thinset especially if the tile going down is porcelain this method would guarantee you a store and manufacture warrantee and no elevation issues and the absolute possibility of the best leveling / my experience is that the tile men using the hardy backer or durrock or wonderboard are the people that do not have the ability to level floors otherwise /these are your favorite high price installer,s no craftsmanship sending their favorite amigo to do the job and picking them up at the end of the day /then they give you the look of how much pride they take in their work and give themselve,s a big pat on the back for another job done well /good luck in the future when you try and get them back for the repair,s that you may need.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

Stonecraft,

I just read you post and I'm out of breath.....:tongue_smilie:You just described a Jersey Mud Job also know as scratch coat. Or did you forget to mention the deck mud step?

Jaz


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

Linoleum, has no asbestos in it and never has. Sheet vinyl, on the otherhand, has the potential to have asbestos, if it is old enough.


From Armstrong Flooring:

Although some people still call all sheet floors "linoleum," genuine linoleum is quite different from vinyl floors.
Vinyl floors are composed of synthetic materials such as polyvinyl chloride and urethane, while genuine linoleum is made from natural components. 

The main ingredient of genuine linoleum is linseed oil. (In Latin, linum is the word for linseed, which comes from the flax plant, and oleum means oil.). The oil is boiled, mixed with melted resins, and combined with powdered cork, wood flour, resins, ground limestone and other natural materials. Mineral pigments provide the color. This mixture is formed into a durable sheet by applying heat and pressure.


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

I would check with the TCNA about the jersey mud job.


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## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

Why would you need to check with the TCNA to recognize a scratch coat?

Jaz


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## stonecraft (Sep 19, 2007)

*removing floor covering*

To the naked eye, there's no difference between flooring that might contain asbestos and flooring that doesn't. For the record, the presence of asbestos doesn't mean you and your family are in danger with every step across the floor. Asbestos in old flooring is encapsulated in the material around it and isn't released into the air unless it's abused. Cutting through vinyl with a knife, for example, won't release asbestos fibers if done correctly. Sanding it, sawing it, scraping it, or removing it with a mechanical chipper, however, will. So the first rule of working with an old vinyl floor is to assume it contains asbestos, unless you know otherwise, and, if possible, lay the new floor right over it.


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## Krichton (Feb 1, 2007)

How do you determine if you're not breathing in asbestos from "properly" cutting the vinyl?


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## All Tiles (Jan 18, 2008)

MattCoops said:


> yea,
> it's kind of a no no to install tile over wood


Yet you'll be surprised on how many PRO tile setters swear by the adhesive > sub floors RULE!


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## andeeznuts (Feb 21, 2008)

*tile*

I dont pull out the dishwasher just stove and fridge. Nothing wrong with that just waisting home owners money on tile and labor.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

.....until the DW springs a leak and the water pools under the DW and cabinets for weeks before it is noticed.


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## beachremodlr (Jan 14, 2008)

Or until the D/W leaks or breaks and you can't get it out of its hole because of the height diff.


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## t2rocku (Mar 18, 2008)

how thick should the mud base be????


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