# Sub asking for a big raise because my next job is in a expensive area. WTF?



## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Still haven't answered the question of why pay with cash? I have several subs that I have used throughout the years. Never once have I paid with cash. Does the friend pay you with cash when you work on his jobs?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

summithomeinc said:


> I'm really surprised at how many people think paying 40/hr is too much. If I pay a guy 15/hr it costs me about 21/hr after I pay taxes,comp.,etc. I don't provide any benefits either. I charge 35/hr PER MAN if I'm subbing work for a GC. I may go to 30 if it's alot of work. Still 40 doesn't seem like too much. We are talking one guy here, NOT an entire crew. Most on here agree that the formula for pricing is L+M+O+P= price. Most on here also agree that you shouldn't go with the lowest cost, you should go with the best value. Many are saying it's too much money? I don't get it.


Because he comes with nothing but his skills.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Leo G said:


> Because he comes with nothing but his skills.


Maybe I should charge more then. I have most tools that exist.:laughing: I wouldn't charge a substantial amount less if the tools were supplied.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

cash does not= legit when paying..oh wait,you don't 1099 him so he can't be a sub so..where's the legit come in?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

VinylHanger said:


> I was assuming that he was legit and just handing cash to his friend which will hurt him at tax time and he'll be paying the taxes on it. I also assumed that his friend was legit and covering his own overhead; taxes, insurance and such. At 40 bucks an hour, there is no excuse for being a hack.
> 
> Most of the advice was to hire a legit guy with W/C and build your business while cutting out the whineyassed friend who is taking advantage of the situation. I think that is good advice no matter what.
> 
> ...



Other than the guy paying cash, I have no problem with him paying whatever he thinks is fair.

Are you implying because he charges a higher rate than you are accustomed to he is cheating his client? I hope not. We dont know the quality of his work, his overhead, his demand in the market, ect...

If a client was willing to pay $200 a man hour to have a project done, thats their business....


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

To be clear, I am not saying I am going to pay a carpenter $40 an hour for him and his nail bags :laughing: 

Just saying if someone else does, i say good for them. Just do it legit :thumbsup:

Summit,$40 an hour to a carpenter with no insurance or tools is the equivalent of paying an insured, tooled up subcontractor and his crew $70 an hour a peice, especially if you are paying the taxes....


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

maleko said:


> The guy we are talking about is legit, he is licensed and has insurance.
> 
> .





Jaws said:


> To be clear, I am not saying I am going to pay a carpenter $40 an hour for him and his nail bags :laughing:
> 
> Just saying if someone else does, i say good for them. Just do it legit :thumbsup:
> 
> Summit,$40 an hour to a carpenter with no insurance or tools is the equivalent of paying an insured, tooled up subcontractor and his crew $70 an hour a peice, especially if you are paying the taxes....


He does have the license and insurance. I did miss the part about no tools. He is a part time as needed guy though. So I would only expect bags and what goes in them unless agreed otherwise. I would think that for 40/hr he could bring all the tools needed.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Missed the liscence and insurance part.

To Maleko hes worth the money, thats all that matters :thumbsup:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

:no:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Tom Struble said:


> :no:


???


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Bottom line, the whole cash/tax thing is none of our business. I doubt there's anyone here who hasn't done a bit of barter without declaring it to the gummint, which amounts to the same thing.

The basic rant is still a good one, regardless of that angle. :thumbsup:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Tinstaafl said:


> Bottom line, the whole cash/tax thing is none of our business. I doubt there's anyone here who hasn't done a bit of barter without declaring it to the gummint, which amounts to the same thing.
> 
> The basic rant is still a good one, regardless of that angle. :thumbsup:


Really?

I know and respect you Tin. You being a moderator and all, I would think you would understand our sentiment. The OP admits that he does this all the time. This is one of the very practices that many of us fight against on a daily basis. I don't begrudge anyone who is doing side work, working for family, etc. who partakes of cash in small amounts. I don't think that's what's going on here.

For you to say that this is "None of our business", really strikes a sour note with me.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

I do not feel anger towards the op since he is not saving any money and undercutting legitimate contractors because he is spending all the money over paying his buddy. It only aggregates me when an unfair leg up is achieved.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Not my place to tell others how to live their lives or run their business. Its up to the govt to enforce their regs.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

If he asked for advice on how to run his business, it would be a different. He didnt.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Warren said:


> You being a moderator and all, I would think you would understand our sentiment.


Oh, I do, but I have a human side too. The basic point of the rant has nothing to do with details of legality; you know the guy's request is wrong on a deeper level.

Sometimes it's nice to be able to do a bit of squawking without getting yer nits picked. :thumbsup:

So you've never bartered? :whistling


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Bartering and paying subs cash are two very different things to me. If I owned a pawn shop Id have a problem with barterers :laughing:

Im so confused :laughing: 


I dont agree with the guys business practices, but like I said, he isnt asking for advice on his business practices. Not my place


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Tinstaafl said:


> Oh, I do, but I have a human side too. The basic point of the rant has nothing to do with details of legality; you know the guy's request is wrong on a deeper level.
> 
> Sometimes it's nice to be able to do a bit of squawking without getting yer nits picked. :thumbsup:
> 
> So you've never bartered? :whistling



I do agree with the sentiment of the original post. However, he could have stated all that, without the "cash" payment wording. I hate to jump to conclusions, but to me that just shows a total disregard for the right way of running a business.

Like I said before, I am no saint. I do not go looking for cash work, do not offer a discount for it, and if I do any, it does get reported. Bartering is something I have not done. Might be a cultural or regional thing. What I see with this guy, goes way beyond a little barter or petty cash here and there.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

J M J said:


> So he wants more money because your making more money in a better part of town. But would he take less money if you were working in the hood?


I was thinking along the same lines.

As a business owner, I am not so sure that it's wise to pass along the increased profits to the employee. When you take a hit that costs you a lot of money, you still have to make payroll. When someone breaks or loses a tool, you have to replace it and still keep your bills paid. 

So when a good money opportunity comes along, this is intended to buffer your business for the tough times. You have to use this gig as an opportunity to put away some emergency money so that you can keep your guys working. 

And really, you won't be able to explain it to your friend because he's all about getting as much money as he can right now. He will not concern himself with what's best for the business long term.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Warren said:


> Really?
> For you to say that this is "None of our business", really strikes a sour note with me.


We have a lot bigger problems than some hard working carpenters working for cash! Why don't you look at the nation re builders for missing billions And it is None of our business:thumbsup:


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