# 23 Unit Building



## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

With the high park job all complete we are rolling onto the next job (same developer) Literally 3 minutes from the last site.
This is a fairly intricate 23 unit apartment building.
We are taking it from footings... all the way up to the roof.
1 level of underground parking, and 4 levels of wood framing above.
After being at one site for so long, it is nice to be starting a new one. Crew morale is defiantly boosted!
Started the footing forms yesterday and we are 80% complete today (ready for rebar)
I am doing all the layout with our total station. Now that i have used it so much i am able to quickly and accurately layout points with a good rod man. Shooting in the 9'x7' column footings i was able to get them within 1/8".. good enough 

Lots of unique forming challenges are to follow, one sided pours, cantilevered slabs and a dense rebar grid.


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

Are you guys doing the forming for the suspended slab as well? 
I'd like to see this one come together. Is it going to be all ICF?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

asevereid said:


> Are you guys doing the forming for the suspended slab as well?
> I'd like to see this one come together. Is it going to be all ICF?


Yes to the slab, no ICF... wood!


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Here's some pics .. Forms are set and now the rebar work . In the whole foundation And slab there is some 9000 sticks of rebar !


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Your using all wood forms? I'm asking your using a form system for the parking garage?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

ubcguy89 said:


> Your using all wood forms? I'm asking your using a form system for the parking garage?


Yes, site built wood forms and a combination of wood and aluma system to form the slab deck.
I meant that it is a wood framed building, sorry for any confusion.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm assuming a poured garage floor, steel columns off the piers, block walls on the garage floor level and the first floor is concrete and the remaining floors are wood


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Walls and columns are cast in place. The mechanical room in the underground is CMU, the only CMU in the entire project.

The suspended slab is full of beams made up of lintels and concrete then more walls formed and poured on top.

Picture this, the hole is 14' deep. 8" thick footing, 8' high wall, 10" thick suspended slab, move in about 20' all the way around 6' of wall


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## duburban (Apr 10, 2008)

cool project, can't wait to see progress


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

duburban said:


> cool project, can't wait to see progress


That makes 2 of us :jester:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Footings poured , gonna survey on Sunday and get it ready for the wall guys . I'm feeling good , happy to see it poured . Very confident in the embeds ... Although I shot the shoring wall and realized that it moved 4" in one spot
























from the rain ...


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Forming progress , lots and lots of tying rebar . Everyone is learning each aspect . It is almost non existent for a local company to tie bar ,form and place concrete all in house on a job this size, we are getting some good recognition and exposure that's for sure


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

You guys are tying your own columns? 
Cool. Never done that... Always on order. 
What size bar in the columns?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

asevereid said:


> You guys are tying your own columns?
> Cool. Never done that... Always on order.
> What size bar in the columns?


We always fabricate our own steel, keeps guys employed and since things change slightly we can adjust as needed.

25m verts, 10m stirups


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

Cripes... My bending prowess stops at 15M  
What bender you guys using? 
Have you tried the Hitachi?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

We own 4 Hitachi's, they cap out at 15m and even that is a struggle some days, we recently bought a MQ that does 25m bar, and it bends it as easy as the Hitachi does 10m


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

More forming ! Pouring mid next







week



















The one sided forming is defiantly a challenge, but the coil lags make it as easy as possible , very cool system actually


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Does anyone have any experience in strapping concrete column forms with lumber bands?


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

We call that podium work. Pretty popular for 4 story work around here. Just finished coming off one a few months ago. Fast if you have a good wood framing crew. Our concrete outfit blows and goes on those. Blows me away the speed they roll through.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

We poured last Friday! Walls look great . Very very good . We rejigged for the column pour and are pouring those tommorow. I will post more pics of the walls tommorow, and maybe even some of the drone video of the pour, which is actually pretty cool !


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

Ate those only 8' walls to the bottom of slab? 
Pour looks like it went well, keep the pics coming.


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

You let your guys wear shorts?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

ubcguy89 said:


> You let your guys wear shorts?


The law requires you to wear protective clothing and does not address shorts vs long pants, both can be argued as safe as well as unsafe


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

I just find it surprising not looking to get into a debate. I just find it odd especially tying bar and doing concrete work. All the cuts from the tie wire, and concrete burns.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I agree with you, I have never wore shorts on a job site. We are fortunate as no one has reported any cuts or burns on their legs. The worst we ever seem to get that I ever see on our daily reports is 'apply bandaid' as our hands seem to get the brunt of everything.

Concrete burns on hands...I see the new guys get it during training, once they have it once, they learn...and wash their hands anytime after that they happen to touch wet concrete


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

More concrete! Next week we will install shoring frames and get the slab under way!






unfortunately after man tries and $800 we could not make the metal banding work to hold the columns in.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

asevereid said:


> Ate those only 8' walls to the bottom of slab?
> Pour looks like it went well, keep the pics coming.


Yes 8' walls.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

cool thread, new stuff to me :thumbsup:

the building looks like it's straight out of Austin


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Shoring frames are coming tommorow!
Columns and walls both look great , and i used the total station and I checked the tops of columns and walls and in the whole building the lines do not vary more then 1/4".. Not too shabby if you ask me.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

We really gave a good push last week on the deck . The beam lines are perfect , everything is great . We are about 3/4 done .. So far about 6000 sqft in 5 working days . I was the only guy who had installed these frames before but the crew was quickly up to speed ! Plethora of chamfer strip and rebar is to follow .


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

What brand shoring you guys running?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

elementbldrs said:


> What brand shoring you guys running?


Its all rented from a scaff company but there is a mixture of Hi lite, aluma and one other that i forgot. All 25k frames.


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Pro-shore? Thats our product we sell to Dayton. Curious if it gets used in up North much. Used to be licensed to Aluma and a few other outfits.

Watch your fingers in the post holes, monthly we have someone lose a tip of finger droppin shoring. Seriously. Major problem.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

That is one talk we all had, about the pinch points. Everyone is very safety conscious.

I have to say the accuracy we are getting with the total station is unreal. I have a Hilti rep coming in a few days to give me another training session on it, this time dealing with vertical layout and slopes.. percent grades and what not. Then i will be able to use it to its full ability on the x,y,and z axis. :thumbup:

Alot of this stuff is pretty new to me... but putting it from my carpentry books to the form plywood and seeing it work out no problem is really great!


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

Cost wise is it cheaper to build all your forms rather than renting a form system? Peri and efco and meva all make form systems that will get you production. I was always taught time is money, and labor is more expensive than material. I mean everything looks great I'm just curious about the site built panels


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

So cool to see this type of a building! Amazing skills you have Nick to be able to layout, form, and pour that...and of course your crew!


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

ubcguy89 said:


> Cost wise is it cheaper to build all your forms rather than renting a form system? Peri and efco and meva all make form systems that will get you production. I was always taught time is money, and labor is more expensive than material. I mean everything looks great I'm just curious about the site built panels


We looked at both Peri and what we did, by the time we calc'd everything in we are further ahead with making our own forms. Rental wasn't that cheap, then the crane every time to move them, then for make our own, 3 uses for the form ply and when you put the roof on, 80% will become the roof ply, 60% of the 2x4 will still be long enough (and straight enough) for kickers, rips for the flat roof, etc the small stuff, up to 20% will be used for blocking and backing as needed.

Trust me when I say we sat and ran numbers every which way we could to make sure all this made sense


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

overanalyze said:


> So cool to see this type of a building! Amazing skills you have Nick to be able to layout, form, and pour that...and of course your crew!


I think this stuff is great, i still love framing but this is really neat. I have seen it done lots of times on condo jobs but seeing our crew do it and do it well is awesome. I just really need to make sure people are following my marks and not making their own jazz up. Its always a bonus when someone bumps the total station and doesn't tell me so i have to recheck a whole string on points. 

Electrician actually mentioned to us today that we were moving quicker then the concrete crew with a crane on his other similar highrise job :thumbup:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Got a metric **** load of rebar coming tomorrow. 
Shoring went great, layout is very accurate and all is well.

Damn raccoons


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Rebar is coming along !
Very serious beams 16-1" bars with stirrups 12" oc... Beams are only 9" wide..
Got some hefty 1 1/4" bar at 5" centres on one section of floor


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## asevereid (Jan 30, 2012)

**** am I ever glad I've never had to tie bar like that. 
Are the guys assembling that on site, or did it come in prefabbed sections?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

asevereid said:


> **** am I ever glad I've never had to tie bar like that.
> Are the guys assembling that on site, or did it come in prefabbed sections?


Nothing is prefabbed.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Is the slab PT?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Is the slab PT?


Nope. Why do you ask? That is not common at all in this neck of the woods.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Is the slab PT?


I don't think any engineer in our area knows what a PT slab is


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

FramingPro said:


> Nope. Why do you ask? That is not common at all in this neck of the woods.


It's that I don't think I've even ever seen a modern Type V multi-family with a concrete deck separating the wood Type V from the parking etc Type I that wasn't a PT slab.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Your photo of the intersection of the RC beams and column appears to have some congestion issues and insufficient lap on some of the bars....maybe have the engineer review by a more experienced SE the shop drawings and installation photos?

The % of steel to concrete appears very high in spots.

In general I thought one wanted to avoid splices in the nexus of the columns and beams.

Sometimes use of mechanical rebar connectors would pay.

Are you using a Very high strength Concrete mix design? i.e. 6000 psi+


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Your photo of the intersection of the RC beams and column appears to have some congestion issues and insufficient lap on some of the bars....maybe have the engineer review by a more experienced SE the shop drawings and installation photos?
> 
> The % of steel to concrete appears very high in spots.
> 
> ...


This engineer likes to leave alot of room for the imagination... then more or less "okays" whatever we may do. Not ideal, but just a condition with this guy.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

You might want to spend a little $ ensuring your SE isn't just a little under-trained for this style of construction. A third party PE to check the math and details, do ANY of the shear ties have 2" of concrete cover? No hooks on the top of the columns, there can be very little moment transfer, especially on the weak axis. What ties the wood superstructure to the footings? 2000 tapcons?

Make sure your insurance agent knows you are bending the steel, More risk = more coverage. You've eliminated one possible pocket when things go South. 

Maybe there are structural members I can't see, but the odd transfer beam scheme has me nervous. 

Just how hard was it to remove all that plywood forms that wasn't tapered or wedge locked after the pour? A huge dehumidifier might of helped during the cure time.


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

It seem to me the concrete toiton ratio is a bit askew. By my calculations there could be one less wrap with the dianglon end. One more wrap on opcipital end with a half piker in the center, if I'm reading it correctly.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

PCI @ above: I actually considered calling the local building inspector and asking them to halt construction..... No caca.

letting a novice rodbuster determine the rebar lay out in a six story building is a recipe for disaster.

He's posted pictures that clearly violate all standards of rebar placement. A" What me worry?" attitude is selfish.

If I was building something that appear to be unsafe, I hope you would tell me so.

laugh at me all you want as long as someone competent checks this out for safety issues.
I wouldn't park my truck in the basement, or put my gang box there...


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

4th, not laughing at you but making light of my own lack of knowledge on the suject. Make the call.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

If you have a legitimate concern for their project maybe a PM to get phone numbers would be a better route vs calling them out online and calling the building dept. I am sure the company Nick works for would be receptive to a legitimate helping call.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Not sure in your areas, but here, engineer submits plans to city for review, it has been reviewed and checked by them.

As for the comment to bring in another engineer to review, that will never happen in our area, it is against the P.E. association rules. The only way that can happen is your second engineer has to notify the first engineer they are taking over the project and the first engineer has to 'bless' this transaction and bow out.

The only time another engineer enters the project after it starts is if we change materials (Which we do quite regularly) and the first engineer does not want to design for the change, the new engineer does all our design work, stamps it, and then we submit to the E.O.R. for his stamp of approval. This happens all the time as not all engineers are familiar with all products, so they ask us to provide design, shop drawings, etc for them to review. Since we do a lot of specialty products, the manufacturers have engineers that are familiar with their products, do the work and send it over.

As for your comment on being a novice rod buster, novice can be a loosely used term, plans are detailed which is being followed and inspected by the E.O.R. Since day one I have always fabricated my own steel, and that skill and ability are being passed on the next generation of our company. Some people questions why not just buy pre-fab steel, because I like control of the job and can make changes as needed, I keep local people employed on staff and I keep more profits in the company. FYI it's about 30-35% upcharge getting your steel pre-fab here.

And for the column top bars, it was specified that they are drilled and epoxied in after the beam cages are built, again, this is a common practice in our area. 

As Pickle says, the engineer does leave a lot of room for the imagination and does 'okay' a lot of what we do, as long as it is safe and meets proper build techniques, the old expression, 'there is more then one way to skin a cat' holds true. The underground parking is 2.1m in height and 4m between columns, your truck ain't fitting anyways so don't concern yourself with your vehicle getting under there


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Are you the OP here? I thought Framing Pro was. Or do you have two avatars. It's confusing the way you do it.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Framing Pro is the OP and is in the field daily, keeps the guys going in the right direction, but he is also young and still learning and a lot of this is new to him, he studied framing more then structural steel and concrete work, I am not a field guy anymore, I run the operation and check up on them regularly. He's doing a fine job and coming along well.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

I can't wait till we start the upper walls, above the structural slab...we are changing them from wood frame to a new product, first time it will be used in Canada and the biggest project for this new product in the world so far. I am not going to say the name of it yet, Pickle I'm sure will be posting pics...and I am waiting for the comments like it was a bad move, it's not going to work, it can't be done. I'm use to that, I like to pioneer new products!

Engineering is completed, for the US, currently being reviewed by a Canadian Engineer who gets it (Which most won't), once done the EOR will stamp it and we will be good to go...stay tuned, should be underway in the next 3 weeks or so


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Oh, you're the guy he's always complaining about at the other forum. :laughing:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> You might want to spend a little $ ensuring your SE isn't just a little under-trained for this style of construction. A third party PE to check the math and details, do ANY of the shear ties have 2" of concrete cover? No hooks on the top of the columns, there can be very little moment transfer, especially on the weak axis. What ties the wood superstructure to the footings? 2000 tapcons?
> 
> Make sure your insurance agent knows you are bending the steel, More risk = more coverage. You've eliminated one possible pocket when things go South.
> 
> ...



What do you mean by wedge locked? And if you must know, the walls stripped fine.. similar accommodations have been made with the floor plywood as well to facilitate easy stripping.


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

FramingPro said:


> What do you mean by wedge locked? And if you must know, the walls stripped fine.. similar accommodations have been made with the floor plywood as well to facilitate easy stripping.


Wedge locked, I take to mean as a panel being a ***** to remove because the pressure from perpendicular walls pressed the forms out and squeezed the ends of the panels. 

Like when some crews won't use leveling pads at the bottoms of panels, and then wonder why they can't strip a trapezoid out of a sqaure hole.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Frameing [email protected] aboveouring perfectly square and perpendicular forms make stripping the now damp plywood and planks much hardier, battered forms strip much easier. Sealing and or painting any porous form material will save a lot of elbow grease during removal.

I can't believe the PE society rules trump safety.

Novice, in this instance was as the rebar manufacturer. Everyone was a novice once at everything they have done....
Vertical integration is out of style, but I agree there "gold" in eliminating a few mouths from the job trough. 

Especially in VAT land.
You have a right to be proud of the work and its size, Don't let some "minor" details end your progress to bigger and better jobs.

Don't let some cheapskate owner throw you under a bus when his low bid engineer issues sketchy incomplete plans, protect yourself, your employees, and the public.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Pour is set for Tuesday!

Close to 60 tons so far, i would have to check the slips.

3/4" (20mm) @ 8" (200mm) e.w. Easy tying for the grid atleast :thumbsup:


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Basket set the J-bolts Friday and Monday?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Frameing [email protected] aboveouring perfectly square and perpendicular forms make stripping the now damp plywood and planks much hardier, battered forms strip much easier. Sealing and or painting any porous form material will save a lot of elbow grease during removal.
> 
> I can't believe the PE society rules trump safety.
> 
> ...


Since you are so incredibly concerned with the matter, the structural engineer stopped in today and conducted a site visit. With the exception of a few additional bars around clusters of conduit,:thumbsup: he signed off on the rebar and shoring that we have provided (as per plan) and gave us the ok to pour on wednesday.:thumbsup:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Basket set the J-bolts Friday and Monday?


What kind of basket are you referring to (just curious) and to answer your question... nope.

J bolts won't be necessary for this particular build, you will have to wait a week or so to see exactly what i mean. :thumbsup:


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

The large bars aren't supposed to rub against each other to develop the lap splice strength. And there isn't much confinement steel where the beams cross...

Best of luck. 
The big boys pour thermocouples with the crete to record its actual temperature for determining when it's cured enough to strip and reshore... shouldn't be much of an issue in August/September unless you get a cold front that hangs out. 

I have no opinion on your shoring. If paranoid you could divide the weight of the concrete and rebar and forms by the capacity of the shores to determine roughly your safety margin.

Waiting to see the mystery system.....:thumbsup:


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

FramingPro said:


> What kind of basket are you referring to (just curious) and to answer your question... nope.
> 
> J bolts won't be necessary for this particular build, you will have to wait a week or so to see exactly what i mean. :thumbsup:


It's not unusual to have wood framed Type V's on PT slabs with up to 1000 J-bolts embedded to hold down the wood structure. Since your entire layout depends on these, there are plastic baskets to hold the J-bolts in place similar to those used for bar.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

We are using a new type wall system which will require dowels. Engineering has just been completed and awaiting shop drawings, upon receipt we will layout and be drilling dowels as needed...be a challenge considering the density of the rebar but can be accomplished.

If we get lucky and the shop drawings arrive tomorrow/Wednesday, we are allowed to wet set dowels and j bolts here believe it or not.

And yes bars are allowed to be beside each other in a contact splice condition provided it is mechanically fastened with the proper splice length of 36d. This is a 250mm slab for the most part, the beams are 500mm, after 21 days the shoring can be removed without reshoring, the floor system above is wood frame...all taken into account by the EOR during the design phase.

The architect on the other hand, I'll say he did not do his job very well as the electricians ran about 30% of their 2" feed conduit through the slab, too much concentration in one area, I suggested removing it and running it at a later date outside and up the side of the building as needed and be encased in the masonry facade to hide it...the EOR agreed and asked why the architect did not review all the shop drawings prior to build...I can't answer that question.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

The issue isn't wet setting, it is one of getting the layout correct.


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

FramingPro said:


> Since you are so incredibly concerned with the matter, the structural engineer stopped in today and conducted a site visit.


I like the acerbicness aimed at fourth gen. He deserved it


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Anti-wingnut said:


> Basket set the J-bolts Friday and Monday?


Wow, for some reason i imagined a big crane with a man bucket so we could wet set the j bolts.... yea didn't seem right to me either :laughing:


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## shanewreckd (Oct 2, 2014)

Looks like a good job, lots of fun concrete to do. You and your crew are adapting well Nick, which has got to make Chris' life so much easier. I'm intrigued by this "new" material you'll be using. 

And to add my 2 cents (just cause everyone else does); the bar laps and splices look perfectly in line with all the specs we get. I like to think that I'm a big boy of concrete, and my company definitely is.

Personally, I would wait out the detail and preset dowels every time as opposed to epoxying them in after but that's just me and I just hate drilling my fresh slab haha.


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Life is not easier, just busier, we are growing in leaps and bounds again and adopting new technologies and products, learning curves all around on some of it...

Stay tuned...we are very excited about this upcoming product we are doing, both financially and to set us apart from everyone doing the same old same old


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Chris Johnson said:


> Life is not easier, just busier, we are growing in leaps and bounds again and adopting new technologies and products, learning curves all around on some of it...
> 
> Stay tuned...we are very excited about this upcoming product we are doing, both financially and to set us apart from everyone doing the same old same old


Is it ktech?


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Inner10 said:


> Is it ktech?


Nope...but we could start a pool here :whistling 50/50


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Slab poured great , 175m placed by 1:30pm 
Layout And upper forming has begun . Lots of upper forms.


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## 3bar (Jan 14, 2011)

awesome. parking below and wood frame from there up?


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## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

Chris Johnson said:


> Nope...but we could start a pool here :whistling 50/50


Can I guess?

Hercuwall?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

slowsol said:


> Can I guess?
> 
> Hercuwall?


Thats the one.:thumbsup:


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

More walls.. Fun fun. Ramp will be set next week and poured [






ATTACH]220913[/ATTACH]







Little bit of funky sloping walls to plot and pour !


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Yup it's Hercuwall. This is the first project in Canada using Hercuwall and the largest project that Hercuwall has ever done. This is the marketing machine for their product and for us as well.

We haven't even installed a panel yet, but the interest it has generated is huge and as it goes up and people can see it...well we're hiring someone to stand out front to hand out brochures. ?


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Walls turned out great . As we go up I am finding more and more significant screw ups by the almighty architect .. Has a concrete beam cut through by stairs ... Floors not adding up over columns . He can try to throw me under the bus , but the fact of the matter is .. I'm driving the bus


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

The plot thickens....

lazy engineer... Check.
incompetent Architect.... Check
Incorrect and incomplete drawings.....Check
Untried low rise building system to "save" $......? or Blame "catcher" for above?

Why/How would financially sound owners allow above?

Are the note holders in on the grand experiment?

Are Canadian Hercuwalls on a 13.12 inch centers instead of 12"?

What floor system upstairs? wood, steel, concrete, or hybrid?

Do you get paid in full even if the building never gets a certificate of occupancy?
Good luck.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

^^^ Is that guy always an *******?

Seriously cool project you got there Chris! I can only dream about a high rise right now....

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

Matt!! How've you been?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> ^^^ Is that guy always an *******?
> 
> Seriously cool project you got there Chris! I can only dream about a high rise right now....
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


Hows it going? Staying snowed under?


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Been good Andrew. Things are crazy busy John. Just about completely out of residential work, then I signed a 200 unit contract but nobody lives in them so still not dealing with homeowners.

Best year to date by far. Just over 3.5 mil so far but nothing like Chris and the kid got going on. Thats impressive!

How about you guys?

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Been good Andrew. Things are crazy busy John. Just about completely out of residential work, then I signed a 200 unit contract but nobody lives in them so still not dealing with homeowners.
> 
> Best year to date by far. Just over 3.5 mil so far but nothing like Chris and the kid got going on. Thats impressive!
> 
> ...


Doing good. 

Sounds like your killing it. Good for you. 

Yeah, I am enjoying Chris and Pros threads of late. Pretty awesome projects.


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## Dan_Watson (Mar 1, 2008)

....


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Been good Andrew. Things are crazy busy John. Just about completely out of residential work, then I signed a 200 unit contract but nobody lives in them so still not dealing with homeowners.
> 
> Best year to date by far. Just over 3.5 mil so far but nothing like Chris and the kid got going on. Thats impressive!
> 
> ...


Can't compalin! Not slaying like the Doctor but more quality work than I can handle!


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Sorry fellas, but I have to give respect to Fourthgen. I run 20-50m in work a year, sh!t gets real when you start getting deep on projects and systems are new, incomplete, under-designed, non-typical, etc. this is not a reflection on Chris and his team, but on the seriousness of what situations become. Our outfit builds about 650m a year, and we are mid size. We are in constant litigation over issues Fourthgen states. Not funny haha numbers, but serious holy sh!t money.

I guess my point, what does he stand to gain by being direct about what he posts. Chris no doubt seems to be a been there, done that guy. Fourthgen, what I am seeing, is as well. I know I live it every day. I poured 2,800 yards at 4am today. Been involved in over 15,000 yards over last 30 days. I just encourage guys to give your peers words/advice/criticism thought.

And framingpro, I like to think I drive the bus... But.... When you are sitting across the table at the deposition.... And lawyers are tearin you up on your schedule, your dailies, you communication, sub meetings, etc.... I can read the emblem of the bus those fockers are driving...


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## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

See this is the difference between the US and Canada, the US is litigation happy, litigation in Canada happens but not to the degree the US has it.

Structural Engineer is on board, even more so now since there is an 8 story in the works he wants. We are using our own engineer for the Hercuwall system, which includes verifying the small yet increased load from the Hercuwall over the original design sitting on the underground parking structure.

Architect plans...well guys with the exception of 1 architect we work for, designs are minimum and miss lots of info, I'll say it standard here. My famous expression is - if an architect cannot figure something out, he ignores it and waits to see what we come up with, then if he likes it he draws the addendum to match, if he doesn't he finds a new idea and says do it this way. Here's the thing that you don't see on the internet, we 'interview' the architect before we get too far into the build, after 29 years of this, I can tell you what type of architect we are dealing with, which tells me how I am going to build a building - whether it be - Just do it, or RFI for every little detail, and the same holds true with the builder/developers we work for.

And you are allowed to use untried systems, it's called being a pioneer, and having big balls, with an engineers stamp to boot. by the way, we had an independent engineer do the Hercuwall, the EOR blessed this and reviewed his work to fit the pieces together. Is this saving money, that is a tough one, yes it is to certain point, but the marketing this building is generating is 2nd to none, had it have been built to original specs then it would have just been another building, to which we have 10's of thousands of these across the city, province, country, etc. 

And why would you think the building would not get CofO? 

Approved design - check
Approved changes - check
Inspected by city and engineers during construction - check
Inspected and approved by independent engineer for Tarion - check


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

You made your post at 4:20.

In the AM! Way to hold it together


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## Anti-wingnut (Mar 12, 2009)

Chris Johnson said:


> And why would you think the building would not get CofO?


Smoke damage


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

We made quick work of this 20x60 parking ramp .. Rebar showed up very late but we will get it placed Monday for Tuesday pour ...
I'm not sure what SOP is but once we snapped top of slab line and an offset for top of joist we cranked the scaffold to the grade.. Then I set up the total station and transferred the level and percent grade to the stringers on the other end and adjusted accordingly . 
When I was forming the wall flanking the ramp I took the time to accurately layout and install a void for the ramp to pour into..dowels installed too. Worked out perfectly 
Somehow I need to form a void for a trench drain .. Ideas are welcome because my only idea is to buy a ****in trench drain unit .. Like everyone else does .


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## ubcguy89 (Mar 23, 2013)

We use rigid foam to form trench drains then just buy metal grating. I'm not sure if it would work for you in your situation but it's a thought and the easiest way


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

ubcguy89 said:


> We use rigid foam to form trench drains then just buy metal grating. I'm not sure if it would work for you in your situation but it's a thought and the easiest way


Im open to suggestions for sure... how do you keep it off the concrete and how do you keep it at proper height?


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Get crafty with screed pads, posts, and void foam. Use them for all kinds of deck situations, and curbs on waterproofed types of decks/roofs, especially landscape type applications.


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## elementbldrs (Sep 26, 2010)

Oh and header brackets are another handy tool.


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## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

elementbldrs said:


> Oh and header brackets are another handy tool.


Pics? Additional details.. it is 18' wide and slopes to a 4" pvc pipe in the centre


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