# Bridges?



## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

One more thing: 

Because there is a huge design risk with regards to bridges; I would suggest that you don't take this on as a design-build project (even though you would be farming the design out to an engineer). There is a contingent E&O liability exposure for contractors who choose the engineer, as opposed to the owner choosing the engineer. 

You mention the owner is an engineer himself, but it was unclear if he would or would not do the design work. This might be a case of him not wanting the professional E&O liability on his shoulders. I respectfully suggest that if he tries to pass the buck and tells you to hire an engineer, that you decline. Otherwise, you should get an E&O policy. The cost will be way lower than if you had your own engineer on staff who did the design; and of course the engineer will have his own insurance which would respond as primary. But since you are in essence the GC over an engineering sub-contractor now, you do have some secondary vicarious liability. I normally would never bring this up with any other type of construction work; but because this is bridge work (plus it's a bridge large enough to carry vehicle traffic), you should consider the increased liability risk with respect to the structural design, and take measures to protect yourself and your business.

Just my 2 cents. Your broker will be best able to advise you.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Wow, bridges sound like a pain in the butt. thanks for the info Astrix. Informative as always


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## Astrix (Feb 23, 2009)

Yeah, bridges are like high-maintenance trophy girlfriends. They require more attention to detail, but they are very interesting and a nice plum to add to one's list of work experience. 

Don't forget to share photos if you do this project. Promise?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh yeah, lots of pix. Big IF


But really trophy girlfriends, interesting? I don't think so. I'd rather do a bridge.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

dom-mas said:


> Yes, John Scott is the professor that replaced the one I had. He's definitely the one who pushed drywalling at the college. Is he still there? Someone had mentioned that he left?


If he did leave it was very recent. I believe he was teaching there last year.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Ok, it was last year that I heard it and it was from the caretaker of a building beside a building that the college used to do their practical work on.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Well a couple pretty big steps seem to have been crossed in this project. Drawings have been made and an engineer has stamped them. The river conservation society has been made aware of the project and so has the municipality, they both wanted an engineers stamp so it seems that it may be a go. Now for little things like coming up with a price. I'll be meeting with the client in the following month, haven't even met him yet, just e-mails and phone calls.

My fingers are crossed

Oh and if Astrix is reading, I found the engineer (I did the stone on his house a while ago) but the property owner contacted him and paid him directly so I have no real involvement. It's interesting because the engineer and property owner know/knew each other. They both may have worked together at a firm or the engineer may have employed the property owner at one point, It wasn't exactly clear.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

I think I can speak for everyone in here when I say that we expect detailed picture progress if you get this plum!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Oh yeah, absolutely. There will be a few pix going on the website too I'm sure


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Want's to drive a dump truck across, How about a loader?








This is the bridge in Quebec.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I love that. 

This will be the only access to his building lot, so he will have to be able to bring full dump trucks, concrete trucks etc... Also after building he'll always need trucks for heating oil, septic pumping etc...


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

*Water*



CJKarl said:


> Want's to drive a dump truck across, How about a loader?
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Who stole the water?:laughing::laughing:


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Seasonal


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

CJKarl said:


> Seasonal


you can't blame everything on seasonal labor....or can you?


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

Sure you can! :thumbsup:


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

lukachuki said:


> you can't blame everything on seasonal labor....or can you?



It's the outflow to a small farm pond, so I think it runs when it rains.


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## lukachuki (Feb 11, 2005)

CJKarl said:


> It's the outflow to a small farm pond, so I think it runs when it rains.


Yeah thanks, that's what I assumed.  My previous answer was an extremely lame attempt at humor fueled by....well nothing. My humor doesn't translate well to internet forums or to real life for that matter.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Well this is interesting. Haven't heard from this guy in 6 mos, last time was when I gave him a ballpark estimate (he didn't have any drawings or anything) which was almost 3x what he was expecting, haven't heard from him since. Just got an e-mail this weekend saying that the drawings are done, all permits are approved and he wants to pour footings before we get into a deep freeze. We still haven't even met. Hoping to schedule a meeting next week or the week after. I had mostly given up on this project, I'm pretty exited to say the least


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Sweet!:thumbsup:


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Really, sounds good.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Hope you post pics


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## Fundi (Jan 5, 2009)

We been waiting for this one to happen.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

don't worry Matt, I'll have lots of pics I'm sure

Fundi, I was anxious about it for a while, but I had pretty much given up hope. In fact I had told a client about the project in the winter and he recently asked if it was going forward and I laughed and said I was pretty sure it was dead in the water (I tried for the pun but not sure if I succeeded) That was just last week, i hadn't even thought about it since the spring


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Looking forward to see it....and I'm very jealous.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Well until I actually see a backhoe pushing some dirt and see some stone getting dropped off I'm still a bit skeptical. Get your truck fueled up and your passport current and I'm sure I could find a few days work for you Matt


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> Well until I actually see a backhoe pushing some dirt and see some stone getting dropped off I'm still a bit skeptical. Get your truck fueled up and your passport current and I'm sure I could find a few days work for you Matt


You haven't met the guy yet?

It's all BS until the cheque clears.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Well yeah, that's true, but a friend has done the site prep and he's always paid on time and in full. I'm feeling hesitantly optimistic


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Met with him this weekend and got a lot sorted. It's funny he's actually the romantic one with images of a nice stone bridge in the countryside and his wife is the more pragmatic one worried about cost. At least got a solid top dollar from them and it's lower than i would have liked to hear but may be within possibility. I'll need to get some prices on concrete and site work. The biggest piece of good news is the the river conservation authority isn't interested in it at all so long as it doesn't narrow the creek more than the closest culvert does (I think he said 15' so we're aiming at a 20' span)and so long as it doesn't collapse and block the flow. Otherwise it's pretty much do as RJW suggests and have the enginner stamp it when complete.

_IF_ it can't get done at or under cost then there will still be a steel bridge with a lot of stone fancying it up

So we'll see


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## Nick520 (May 2, 2013)

Good luck sounds interesting for sure!


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

This is your chance to propose a guastavino vault.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

I might drive up for that!


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

stonecutter said:


> This is your chance to propose a guastavino vault.


I'll leave that to you of Fundi. My brain still won't accept them as a functional product. Also not sure how gypsum would hold up to a canadian winter.

If your Ford will make it you'd be welcome....but let me finalise the project first


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## Fundi (Jan 5, 2009)

dom-mas said:


> I'll leave that to you of Fundi. My brain still won't accept them as a functional product. Also not sure how gypsum would hold up to a canadian winter.
> 
> If your Ford will make it you'd be welcome....but let me finalise the project first


Sean - the gypsum is in the first layer only and only in joints, not on top. It has no structural value once completed. you could even remove that first layer and add another on top with cement mortar. or use dry laid stones on top. Some people use the gaustavino vault as the formwork for whatever you want on top, cast concrete/steel, stones, tiles.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Going to help on a preliminary pour for the footing tomorrow. Footings will be poured in the coming weeks and then?????


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

And then you will buy a camera and document this project.


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

We build bridges all the time, I would think your fotters moving would be my biggest fear, and expansion between them needs to be compensated as well.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

BattleRidge said:


> We build bridges all the time, I would think your fotters moving would be my biggest fear, and expansion between them needs to be compensated as well.


While I'm not really involved in the footings, I do know that they are to be tied into the bedrock with a series of SS dowels.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Some pics. Most likely nothing will be done this year since temps are below 4C/40F and I don't see any break in the long range forescast but if they do i will be out there to lay up some corers at the least
First a picture of the lot...you can see the piles of stone in the bottom right corner


then a few of the 150-200 tons of stone that I get to use next summer and a pic of the creek and footings. creek is at a fairly low level


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Just looking at that makes my back hurt, but not my brain.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

One of the things i really like about this pile of rocks is that it is mainly 1 person stones. I see very few that weigh over 100lbs. But don't get me wrong...there will be a young lad earning all of his $14/hr next summer


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

superseal said:


> You should put a date stone in there with your name attached.
> 
> Maybe CJ will carve one up for ya!


I've thought about a date stone over the key stone or something, more likely with the homeowners names...it's their money that's building this. What I might do is put my name on the back side. 


I'm pretty handy with carving chisels myself. I've mostly done mouldings for around windows and doors and entabulatures, but I've done some lettering as well 



























http://dominionmasonry.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/000000016-e1333385646854.jpg


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

Wow Sean I'm impressed. Not too many masons can do banker work too....well done!


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

You made those pieces? With a chisel? Holy frack man. I thought those were made with masonry routers or something, maybe water jet machining, wow.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Thanks SC. The college I went to taught everything from laying brick and block to "approved" restoration techniques to banker work. Then when I got a job with the feds they were doing a large project at the time and since I enjoyed carving I asked if i could stay in the shop for a while. Did basic shaping and hundreds of square feet of batting (the little lines on the red stone). As we got up the building I was allowed to do some more involved work. Still nothing compared to some guys who really know what they're doing.

This is a friend out in Saskatoon who spent a year or so learning under Walter Arnold 

http://www.roccomasons.com/carving.html

His company also does commercial brick and block laying...weird juxtaposition


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

JBM said:


> You made those pieces? With a chisel? Holy frack man. I thought those were made with masonry routers or something, maybe water jet machining, wow.


Thanks JBM. I do use air tools. It's slow but satisfying


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Then there's these guys. I would have LOVED to meet Vincent


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## S.U.M (Apr 17, 2013)

dom-mas said:


> Then there's these guys. I would have LOVED to meet Vincent



Very cool.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

I though all that jazz was made in a masonry machine shop lol.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

it can be. When I was just finishing my contract with the feds they offered my a permanent position running a CNC machine that they were planning on purchasing. Just out of school and pretty much a purist I turned it down. I would have still used hand tools cleaning up inside corners that the machine couldn't get to and doing some of the finishes like batting and bush hammering, but that sounded like hell on earth. Shortly after I left the roof literally collapsed at their shop and the thought of the CNC machine went out the window. 

They later hired someone to do most of their carving. Apparently they tried to get a hold of me to see if i wanted the position but I had moved two or 3 times by then and hadn;t kept in touch with anyone, I was 25 at the time and I was fine with that, gov't work wasn't for me. Closing in on 40 and all I can think of now is regular hours, all the machines and equipment public money can buy, pension, paid vacation, sick leave etc...oh well.. unlikely I'd be on this project now


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

The truth of a man is his commitment to his trade.


I salute, you Sir!


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