# Customer is blaming us for his GFI not resetting



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

griz said:


> Why don't you have about a dozen cordless models like everyone else on earth....:whistling
> 
> Don't even recall the last time I saw a corded drill motor...:laughing:


I still use my corded drill a couple times a week, for hole saws, mixing stucco or thinset, etc. Among its advantages is that it is very unlikely to be stolen.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

CarpenterSFO said:


> I still use my corded drill a couple times a week, for hole saws, mixing stucco or thinset, etc. *Among its advantages is that it is very unlikely to be stolen*.


:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

You guys don't know how to fix anything, do you? Easy solution: Plug your power tools into the *neighbor's* outlets.


Problem solved!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Holy mother of God! Just buy another freaking GFCI and install it. You're out what..... _12 damned dollars?_
> 
> Jeezuz..... if 12 bucks is gonna send you to the poor house, you're doing something wrong.


That was my first thought. I keep a few of them in the truck at all times. Can't tell you how many I've swapped out over the years.


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

griz said:


> Why don't you have about a dozen cordless models like everyone else on earth....:whistling
> 
> Don't even recall the last time I saw a corded drill motor...:laughing:


I use one to mix mud (thinset) but that one could be mistaken as cordless as jacked up as the cord is.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

This could be a GFCI down stream from another GFCI. Your drill might have tripped them both.

In the future, get your own GFCI protected cord and use a standard receptacle.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> This could be a GFCI down stream from another GFCI. Your drill might have tripped them both.
> 
> In the future, get your own GFCI protected cord and use a standard receptacle.


I've never heard of two GFCI's tripping due to the same ground fault.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I've never heard of two GFCI's tripping due to the same ground fault.


If one GFCI is protected by another GFCI, a ground fault at the end can cause the upstream device to trip. Not always, but often. I've seen it many times where old homes protected the outside outlet from the bath GFCI then later someone installed a GFI on the exterior.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> If one GFCI is protected by another GFCI, a ground fault at the end can cause the upstream device to trip. Not always, but often. I've seen it many times where old homes protected the outside outlet from the bath GFCI then later someone installed a GFI on the exterior.


I'd like to see an explanation of how it can happen. Once one GFCI trips, there's no current flow to trip the other.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Maybe the circuit is on a switch and the cleaning lady did it. inch:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> Maybe the circuit is on a switch and the cleaning lady did it. inch:


or the cabana boy...aka pool guy...:laughing:


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I'd like to see an explanation of how it can happen. Once one GFCI trips, there's no current flow to trip the other.


Once approximately 4-6 MA of current flow outside the intended path of the circuit, BOTH GFCI sensors kick the trip mechanism.

Perhaps you're no picturing what I'm describing: you have a GFCI receptacle. On the LOAD side of that GFCI is another GFCI. In a perfect world, the last device would catch it all leaving the up stream device un affected. But in the real world, sometimes both devices kick.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> Once approximately 4-6 MA of current flow outside the intended path of the circuit, BOTH GFCI sensors kick the trip mechanism.
> 
> Perhaps you're no picturing what I'm describing: you have a GFCI receptacle. On the LOAD side of that GFCI is another GFCI. In a perfect world, the last device would catch it all leaving the up stream device un affected. But in the real world, sometimes both devices kick.


I understand PERFECTLY WELL what you're describing.

You're under the mistaken impression that each (totally random manufacturer and purchase date) device has the_ exact same trip time_ characteristic... something that's exceedingly rare in todays' mass-produced products.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

In fact, I had a scenario not long ago where a home inspector tripped the bath GFI with his plug tester and couldn't get the thing to reset. Turns out it was on the load side of the garage GFI which tripped simultaneously and he couldn't figure it out.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

480sparky said:


> I understand PERFECTLY WELL what you're describing.
> 
> You're under the mistaken impression that each device has the_ exact same trip time_ characteristic... something that's exceedingly rare in todays' mass-produced products.


I'm not mistaking squat. I'm stating the fact that I've seen it happen.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

https://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/e/electrical_outlet.asp


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

InPhase277 said:


> I'm not mistaking squat. I'm stating the fact that I've seen it happen.


Then you're blessed. Typical component tolerances are +/- 10%, which makes it highly unlikely that two devices in a circuit will behave absolutely identically. The odds of two GFCIs daisy-chained tripping simultaneously may not be astronomical, but they're pretty danged high.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

InPhase277 said:


> I'm not mistaking squat. I'm stating the fact that I've seen it happen.


So have I, once. We figured out what had happened, and couldn't make it happen again.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

InPhase277 said:


> I'm not mistaking squat. I'm stating the fact that I've seen it happen.





CarpenterSFO said:


> So have I, once. We figured out what had happened, and couldn't make it happen again.



You guys should bought a lottery ticket instead of fooling with a GFI...


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

It isn't so far fetched, especially with different generations of devices tied together. Because there is a 4 to 6 mA tolerance, one device can be closer to one end than the other. But we're not here to play field experience vs. engineer. This is about the poor guy being blamed for breaking a GFCI, and before I paid for anything, I'd be looking for upstream GFCI devices.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Wow that's funny. Just yesterday I got a call from a customer that said my deck lights aren't working. I said "did you plug something into the receptacle that the deck lights were plugged into"? He said Yep I plugged my drill into it and it's not working either! Doh! I said well Mack it's not the deck lights that's the problem. Then he says but my drill isn't working either. "Another Doh! I said it's not the deck lights that's causing the drill to not work. I said "the problem is probably the receptacle. Probably a GFCI. That GFI is probably 10 or 15 years old. I just gave him the number to my sparky. Some people don't think things through.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> .......I plugged my still into it.......



.........................................


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Californiadecks said:


> .......I plugged my still into it .......





480sparky said:


> .........................................



Probably more truth in that statement then we want to know....:laughing:


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

480sparky said:


> .........................................


"Swype" suppose to be drill. Although I'm certainly ok with a still.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

Spencer said:


> I'd change it, move on, and not work for them again. But if he's in california I wouldn't touch it. Things work different there. He'd fix it and get sued out of the deal somehow. Tell them it wasn't your fault and they should call an electrician and get his opinion.
> 
> Its sad what our society is turning into, its so sue-happy we have are afraid to change an electric outlet.


I disagree. It had nothing to do with the state and everything to do with the customer's attitude.
I'd tell them plugging something in wouldn't break it, but I'll do some basic troubleshooting to see if I can figure it out for them.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Most cities in Cali only require an electrician or a permit if you're moving an outlet or adding one. Not replacing one.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I'm with 480, just replace the dam GFI......

move along, ain;t worth the drama....

Chit like this is proof why some of you guys are scratching your azz to make a living....


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## poolrehab (Nov 2, 2015)

480sparky said:


> Holy mother of God! Just buy another freaking GFCI and install it. You're out what..... _12 damned dollars?_
> 
> Jeezuz..... if 12 bucks is gonna send you to the poor house, you're doing something wrong.


Its obvious that no one wins an argument with you. LOL but ill try to explain.
The job is nearly an hour from our office. We dont service this area often and the customer brought it up after we left. 

I do pool pool tile cleaning and Im extremely busy, if I take 1 hour to drive there, an hour to fix, and an hour to drive back, Ive spent my day loosing money. Im more then happy to fix anything ive ruined, but I wasnt trying to not fix it, I was trying to ask If I actually was the one to blame. But it sounds like Im not at fault and I can move on now. I suggest you do the same. :thumbsup:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Well, it might help if you provide such pertinent information to begin with.


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## InPhase277 (Feb 9, 2008)

If it hasn't happened to Ken, it hasn't happened. 1st law of cartoon physics.


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