# Mesh tape debate



## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> Simple,,, its NEVER okay to use mesh:thumbsup:


I've seen you post in every one of these threads saying that, "Never use mesh". But to me that's just closed minded, on remodel jobs the most time consuming task is mud and taping. The time saved is the obvious benefit to using mesh. So if there is a way to do quality work, with no call backs while using mesh, then it's worth looking into. 

That's why it's important; on one of my recent remodel jobs the lady had all her furniture jammed in the living room, waiting for me to mud and tape a couple bedrooms. It wasn't in her best interest to have me spend more time fiddling with paper tape dragging the job out longer, I wanted to get it done and get paid too. Yet I want to leave a quality job, but I'm still not convinced that mesh will guaranty cracks. 

You say you've done drywall since 1973 and claim mesh always causes cracks. Myron, the guy that wrote the book, has been doing it since 1981. I don't know if your eight years experience on him will make a difference. But maybe all the cracks you've seen were done over cut edge seams, or over doors, I don't know.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Aaron111 said:


> KennMacMoragh answer to the mesh dilema KennMacMoragh what are you taping a patch, repair or new install??? let me know I can answer that one easily .....


This isn't about a particular job, I am a remodeler so I just do small drywall work and patching.


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## TulsaRemodeler (Nov 24, 2009)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> Simple,,, its NEVER okay to use mesh:thumbsup:


I agree, paper rules. If you like mesh then you havent quite figured it out. Also one might note, sheetrock has paper covering huh?


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

TulsaRemodeler said:


> Also one might note, sheetrock has paper covering huh?


True but DensArmor doesn't. (If you were referring to my comment)


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## TulsaRemodeler (Nov 24, 2009)

angus242 said:


> True but DensArmor doesn't. (If you were referring to my comment)


I wasnt, not even famaliar with DensArmor. I just like paper tape.


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## bdoles (Sep 11, 2007)

The one thing I hate about paper is the occasional bubble. It never fails that I end up cutting it out and just mudding it up. Mesh = no bubbling. I just had a sheetrock crew hang/finish (37 sheets) a room for me and they left bubbles everywhere, needless to say I was pissed and they didn't seem to see what the problem was! They have been added to the "do not use" list of subs.


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## TulsaRemodeler (Nov 24, 2009)

bdoles said:


> The one thing I hate about paper is the occasional bubble. It never fails that I end up cutting it out and just mudding it up. Mesh = no bubbling. I just had a sheetrock crew hang/finish (37 sheets) a room for me and they left bubbles everywhere, needless to say I was pissed and they didn't seem to see what the problem was! They have been added to the "do not use" list of subs.


Sorry you had hacks, not that hard to use paper tape properly.


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I've seen you post in every one of these threads saying that, "Never use mesh". But to me that's just closed minded, on remodel jobs the most time consuming task is mud and taping. The time saved is the obvious benefit to using mesh. So if there is a way to do quality work, with no call backs while using mesh, then it's worth looking into.
> 
> That's why it's important; on one of my recent remodel jobs the lady had all her furniture jammed in the living room, waiting for me to mud and tape a couple bedrooms. It wasn't in her best interest to have me spend more time fiddling with paper tape dragging the job out longer, I wanted to get it done and get paid too. Yet I want to leave a quality job, but I'm still not convinced that mesh will guaranty cracks.
> 
> You say you've done drywall since 1973 and claim mesh always causes cracks. Myron, the guy that wrote the book, has been doing it since 1981. I don't know if your eight years experience on him will make a difference. But maybe all the cracks you've seen were done over cut edge seams, or over doors, I don't know.


 If I said that mesh always CAUSES cracks, I apoligize, it DOESN"T cause cracks, it just DOESN"T do anything to fix cracks!!! Mesh is flexible, it moves with the wall, how can that cover a crack?? hold a piece of mesh in your two hands, wiggle it, it moves anyway you want it too. See paper COVERS the crack. so any hairline crack the comes, stays behind the tape, it doesn't TELEGRAPH through it,,,understand? The job you described above,, if you don't know how to use paper, just rub the crack down below the surface and cover it with hot mud, that will hold JUST AS GOOD AS MESH,, ya see, its the hot mud, not the mesh,,, let me re-iterate, the mesh does absolutely NOTHING


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## bdoles (Sep 11, 2007)

TulsaRemodeler said:


> Sorry you had hacks, not that hard to use paper tape properly.


They were worse than hacks...:furious:

Unfortunately I've had sheetrockers that "claimed" to have been doing it for 30+ yrs. and they still have bubbles. What's the secret to no bubbles?


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

bdoles said:


> They were worse than hacks...:furious:
> 
> Unfortunately I've had sheetrockers that "claimed" to have been doing it for 30+ yrs. and they still have bubbles. What's the secret to no bubbles?


 bubbles are caused by 1) no mud behind tape, 2)mud drying out before it is wiped down. These are the only two ways to get bubbles, period


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## bdoles (Sep 11, 2007)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> bubbles are caused by 1) no mud behind tape, 2)mud drying out before it is wiped down. These are the only two ways to get bubbles, period


So would it be safe to say that an easy fix would be to lift the tape with your 5" blade slide a little mud behind, then smooth it back out. All while things are still wet. Most bubbles I've observed show up pretty quick, quick enough to fix before the mud dries.


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## TulsaRemodeler (Nov 24, 2009)

bdoles said:


> They were worse than hacks...:furious:
> 
> Unfortunately I've had sheetrockers that "claimed" to have been doing it for 30+ yrs. and they still have bubbles. What's the secret to no bubbles?


Heres a clue, if you've been finishing sheetrock for 30 years you might not have too many brain cells. :whistling


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

bdoles said:


> So would it be safe to say that an easy fix would be to lift the tape with your 5" blade slide a little mud behind, then smooth it back out. All while things are still wet. Most bubbles I've observed show up pretty quick, quick enough to fix before the mud dries.


 yep


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

OOOH OOOH-I must clarify that they are not called bubbles, they are called blisters! I learned that a few weeks ago on this site.:clap:

A good poster from this site stopped me from sounding like a HO a couple weeks ago by pointing this out. I have been using that term forever but felt a bit stupid after realizing how many hundreds of time I must have said it.

Are you proud of me Capt?:laughing:


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

rselectric1 said:


> OOOH OOOH-I must clarify that they are not called bubbles, they are called blisters! I learned that a few weeks ago on this site.:clap:
> 
> A good poster from this site stopped me from sounding like a HO a couple weeks ago by pointing this out. I have been using that term forever but felt a bit stupid after realizing how many hundreds of time I must have said it.
> 
> Are you proud of me Capt?:laughing:


 I thought of mentioning that my self,, but like all of you guys,, I get SICK of hearing from me!!!!


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> I thought of mentioning that my self,, but like all of you guys,, I get SICK of hearing from me!!!!


 :laughing:


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## TulsaRemodeler (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm suprised by this thread turn, tape bubbles, wow, how dumb do you have to be to do this? For those of you that havent done tape. You water down your mud for the tape machine or banjo, its a cant miss deal. You earn your money on anything drywall though. If you aint fast and furious you lose. Thanks to our brown-skinned neighbors to the south. Its a shame, eating up one trade after another.


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

TulsaRemodeler said:


> wow, how dumb do you have to be to do this?


I've been at it since 1973, that ought to answer that one and I pick a 5string banjo too


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## TulsaRemodeler (Nov 24, 2009)

Capt-Sheetrock said:


> I've been at it since 1973, that ought to answer that one and I pick a 5string banjo too


I play a 3string banjo, 5 seems too hard for me.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

TulsaRemodeler said:


> I'm suprised by this thread turn, tape bubbles, wow, how dumb do you have to be to do this? For those of you that havent done tape. You water down your mud for the tape machine or banjo, its a cant miss deal. You earn your money on anything drywall though. *If you aint fast and furious you lose.* Thanks to our brown-skinned neighbors to the south. Its a shame, eating up one trade after another.


Not necessarily. We have to charge extra because we don't know what we're doing and have to re-do a lot. :>)

Good Luck
Dave


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## supwd (Oct 29, 2009)

I have always used paper for the corners, and mesh on any seams, if it isn't a large job. If it is, then just use paper everywhere. We never got called back for any problems.


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## Kiwiman (Mar 28, 2008)

What I can't work out is why mesh works for one guy but not the other, it would have to be scientifically tested in a lab to sort this one out...might be time to get the Mythbusters team in. 
If you're going to use mesh then follow these rules - use a hard setting type compound, v groove butts and use 2 coats setting comp on them, if it's a join on a weak spot use 2 layers of mesh or 1 of mesh then 1 of paper, if the first coat shrinks back and exposes the mesh then don't use a/p mud until mesh is covered. All I know is I've used both paper and mesh for many moons now and the difference in callbacks is all I go by.


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## TulsaRemodeler (Nov 24, 2009)

Isnt mesh thicker or is that my imagination? It seems like less trouble on repairs to use tape.


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

TulsaRemodeler said:


> Isnt mesh thicker or is that my imagination? It seems like less trouble on repairs to use tape.


 Of course its less trouble,,,, thats way it is used. No, its not thicker


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I just had an epiphany in the tiling section. Screw mesh AND paper....I'm gonna start using Kerdi-Band!!!!!!


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Kiwiman said:


> What I can't work out is why mesh works for one guy but not the other, it would have to be scientifically tested in a lab to sort this one out...might be time to get the Mythbusters team in.


That would be nice if it were tested, you can do half a building in paper and the other in mesh. Except it would take a long time to see your results.


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## Kiwiman (Mar 28, 2008)

It's easy to jump to conclusions when doing a repair job where someone else has used mesh because you don't know what mud they've used or what type of mesh, I think you'll find mesh has come a long way since the early thin stuff. The strength is in the cross fibre's with some brands being twice the thickness/strength than others. 



KennMacMoragh said:


> That would be nice if it were tested, you can do half a building in paper and the other in mesh. Except it would take a long time to see your results.


To test it properly you would have to try each brand of mesh with each type of setting mud, papertape with each type of setting mud and each type of a/p mud....I would like to nominate Capt for the testing:whistling

Here's another debate for ya...Whats best, setting or premix mud for papertape.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

Kiwiman said:


> To test it properly you would have to try each brand of mesh with each type of setting mud, papertape with each type of setting mud and each type of a/p mud....I would like to nominate Capt for the testing:whistling


Throw in tapered edge joint or cut edge joint as one of the variables too. If I had a garage that needed sheetrock, I would test this out.



> Here's another debate for ya...Whats best, setting or premix mud for papertape.


I don't know, which one?


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## drywall icon (Dec 14, 2009)

factory or cut? dosent matter. what kind of mud? quick set or regular. mesh tape ok for small holes and cracks.

use paper tape around doors and windows. mesh can be used on new or old if it hadnt been painted, or it will not stick. 30 degress or above. add 1 qt water to 5 gal mud mix .


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

drywall icon said:


> factory or cut? dosent matter.


I'm thinking you are right, it doesn't, even though it says in the book "Drywall", fiber tape is commonly used for taping tapered seams. I think he's referring to whether or not the seam is spliced over a stud or joist, in which case don't use fiber tape.


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## HomeElements (Nov 9, 2009)

When I first started with drywall it was all paper tape (it was fine)

Then started working at a new job and the owner was dead set on mesh (also fine)

Honestly in the end I never noticed any difference in look to me thats all that matters....


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

^^ At what point in time is 'the end'? Right after the job? Or six months later?


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## HomeElements (Nov 9, 2009)

I only seen it in at the end of the job since I was never called back for any complaints I assume it was still ok long after 6 months as well :thumbsup:


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## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I used it with hot mud, I have seen the joint 9 months later....still holding fine... HOWEVER...

I used it with lightweight all purpose in a pinch one....I have seen it 1 month later...hair line crack along the whole joint.

Both are in the same house. The Hot Mud and Mesh was in the living room and hallway. The pre-mix and mesh was in the bath room.


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

^^ Interesting, but which ones cracked? The splices over studs and joists? Splices by the door? Or the horizontal ones floating across the wall?


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## jonny rocket (Dec 24, 2009)

the rocket says mesh is for HACKS.allways paper tape when roughing in new drywall.mesh is only good for cracks on plaster repair or durock.if you use mesh on dorock you should use durabond.

1974 all day


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## andeeznuts (Feb 21, 2008)

*Mesh mang!*

Dude what its worth I have never used paper tape for anything. They say that paper is so much stronger but what you have to think about is is the mud gets into the mesh and into the seem where is paper its just like a big sticker. I have done so many joint repairs where the paper tape is bubbling out and i have to cut it and put mesh in. Plus if you add any moisture to the situation the tape will give first anytime you see tape seperating pull it, the whole damn run of tape will pull right out try it with mesh and you wont get that far. Trust me use mesh but you do have to respect all the old school dudes on here because its tuff to move on to newer and better products. Use mesh.


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## KING OF ROCK (Jan 5, 2010)

We hate the mesh tape.....the only time we would use it is in a garage because it saves one step but sometimes you can see the mesh tape bleed through the durbond and we only use the mesh on the flats and butt joints never on the cornors and coves.


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## Capt-Sheetrock (Aug 8, 2007)

andeeznuts said:


> Dude what its worth I have never used paper tape for anything. They say that paper is so much stronger but what you have to think about is is the mud gets into the mesh and into the seem where is paper its just like a big sticker. I have done so many joint repairs where the paper tape is bubbling out and i have to cut it and put mesh in. Plus if you add any moisture to the situation the tape will give first anytime you see tape seperating pull it, the whole damn run of tape will pull right out try it with mesh and you wont get that far. Trust me use mesh but you do have to respect all the old school dudes on here because its tuff to move on to newer and better products. Use mesh.


I'm more than willing to move on to a better product,,, mesh ain't it tho,,, I notice your a re-modeler,,,, I'm a pro

nuff said,,,sonny


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## andeeznuts (Feb 21, 2008)

No need for personal attacks. I have used mesh tape for hundreds of jobs with out problem. And i bet ONLY knowing sheetrock is real fun on the wallet these days.


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