# Needing Some Help .......



## Mudd Dogg (Sep 14, 2005)

I know this may get kinda long but bare with me please. 
I am a newbie here on this board and in need of some help.
I have been doing drywall finishing for 8 yrs. Here recently I was forced by Florida law to be incorporated and basically I am considered a drywall contractor now. But still I have to work for other dwsubs because of my lack in knowledge of knowing how to get a board count and bidding on new construction and remodels. I have to be inc. , insured, and carry workmans comp or exempt. Everything a drywall sub has to be but not making the money a drywall sub makes. It boils down to the fact that I'm a sub working for a sub thats working for the GC. In other words, as you can plainly see, I make the least amount of the three. I want my business to succeed but don't see that happening working for other subs. 
I could really use some help from other drywall subs on this board in learning how to bid remodels, bid new construction, and board counts.
I mean I can go in a new construction and physically count up the boards or figure it out if the GC can tell me the whole sq. footage of the house (walls and ceilings). In remodels, I can figure the wall board count but not sure how to do ceiling board count. I have no problem going into a remodel and knowing what material and a close count to as how much but not what to charge. I don't want to over charge people but in the same token, I don't want to cut my own throat. 
I'm not a fly by nighter finisher. Not to blow my own horn but I have been considered one of the best finishers in the panhandle of Florida. 

Is there anyone here that can help me with this problem? I figure whats the point of having my own business if its not going to go no where and I feel that won't as long as I am stuck working for other subs because of lack of knowledge. I have asked a couple of the subs I have worked for, but got nothing from them for fear I might try and take GC from them. I'm not that type of person. I don't screw anyone over unless they screw me first and even then it would have to be something pretty bad for me to do so. I'm just not like that. 

I know this has been rather long and I appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read this. Thanx for listening. Frustration of feeling like the low man on the totem pole is taking its tole.


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## shrinko (Sep 17, 2005)

*sounfd like stuff I'ver seen*

I said to hek with all that Guv stuff and work under the table in BC for 23 a foot . No I do not pay income tax since that was under the war measures act that has not yet been removed. I fear poverty more than the government and Man that is what it boils down to - FEAR. Make as much as you want and say screw to chicken liitle. Don't worry about the gov taking your house and car let em.


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## plumguy (May 29, 2005)

shrinko said:


> I said to hek with all that Guv stuff and work under the table in BC for 23 a foot . No I do not pay income tax since that was under the war measures act that has not yet been removed. I fear poverty more than the government and Man that is what it boils down to - FEAR. Make as much as you want and say screw to chicken liitle. Don't worry about the gov taking your house and car let em. XXXXX let em.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Mudd Dogg, I'd edit this if I could and I wish that the other mods would get on it.

This could be viewed by anybody and we try to be, at least, semi-professional. Your use of the 'F' word here is not condoned.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

[


> QUOTE=Mudd Dogg]I know this may get kinda long but bare with me please.
> I am a newbie here on this board and in need of some help.
> I have been doing drywall finishing for 8 yrs. Here recently I was forced by Florida law to be incorporated and basically I am considered a drywall contractor now. But still I have to work for other dwsubs because of my lack in knowledge of knowing how to get a board count and bidding on new construction and remodels. I have to be inc. , insured, and carry workmans comp or exempt. Everything a drywall sub has to be but not making the money a drywall sub makes. It boils down to the fact that I'm a sub working for a sub thats working for the GC. In other words, as you can plainly see, I make the least amount of the three. I want my business to succeed but don't see that happening working for other subs.
> I could really use some help from other drywall subs on this board in learning how to bid remodels, bid new construction, and board counts.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Well you sound intelligent. I've read your other posts and i'm sure you know your stuff. Take the plunge, make some mistakes and move on. you got to do something about that feeling of low man, that will hold you back. I hang out with a friend who was a lineman who had a power pole break and land on top of him while he was strapped to it. 20 years in a chair, peeing out a tube, and i don't know anyone who can keep up with him. Always happy and pleasant too. Got to keep your perspectives straight. RT. I think we all apologize for shrinko.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Mudd Dog do you know anybody you can go into biz with? Somebody who knows what you don't and vise versa? You two together could be stronger than standing apart. The strongest partnership is one made up of two guys who know a little bit about everything, but one knows the trade better than the other and the other guy knows the business better than the other guy.

On another note, it isn't the end of the world to not make money on a few jobs as long as you are learning from your mistakes. I would rather do a few jobs and not make money if I knew that eventually it would help me figure out what I'm doing.

You don't have to worry about being too high and charging too much, because I'm sure you will know that when you aren't getting the jobs. :cheesygri


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## Mudd Dogg (Sep 14, 2005)

Use of what "F" word. I don't see it in my post. If it was there, then edited, I apologize. Can't remember typing that. 

I appreciate the input Rob and Mike. But as far as finding a partner, I haven't been able to find a fellow finisher willing to the quality work that I do (didn't mean to sound arrogant). Every finisher has their way of doing or not doing the job and most aren't willing to adjust. I have worked with one other before and oh boy did we have problems. Most people find ways of cutting corners, I won't. Now I am open to suggestions and are willing to change the way I do things as long as it doesn't jeopardize the quality. 

Like you guys said live and learn, live and learn. 

Thanks again guys for your advise.


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

How long have you been at this Mudd?

Cause to me, it seems maybe not long enough. When you work under, you aquire the trade knowledge. By paying attention, even if the boss trys to keep it from you, you aquire some of his biz knowledge. This knowlege builds charactor and confidence easily viewable under negotiations.

If I'm right, it might not be time for you to swim so deep.
If I'm wrong, you need to make outside contact with other GCs. A phone call can get your name on the table.

Good Luck and keep your head up, either way.
Bob


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

I'm sure the F word Teetor was refering to was in shrinkos post...if you find ALLL his other (2) posts, you'll see some "XXXX" where such words once were.


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## K2 (Jul 8, 2005)

[


> QUOTE=Mudd Dogg]Use of what "F" word. I don't see it in my post. If it was there, then edited, I apologize. Can't remember typing that.
> 
> I appreciate the input Rob and Mike. But as far as finding a partner, I haven't been able to find a fellow finisher willing to the quality work that I do (didn't mean to sound arrogant). Every finisher has their way of doing or not doing the job and most aren't willing to adjust. I have worked with one other before and oh boy did we have problems. Most people find ways of cutting corners, I won't. Now I am open to suggestions and are willing to change the way I do things as long as it doesn't jeopardize the quality.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Might be time for some "leadership management training". Lots of stuff on cd's and tapes out there. Some people are naturals, the rest of us have to try and hone our skills everyday.


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

Being inc. isn't a bad thing. It protects your personal assests. Meaning the worst thing the corporation files bankruptcy. But they can't come after your personal assets. Keep your buisness separate from your personal assests. Meaning don't ever take a loan against a personal assest for you buisness. A good lawyer sheilds his clients so well that if his corporation filed a 10M bankruptcy. He will still have The big house and the fancy car.

In regards to your other question. Find a retired drywall man. Your in the sunshine state it is the retirement capital of the world. Where to find one. Try running a add in a senior citizen publication which is local to your area. A retired drywall man could take one look at new contruction and know exactly what you will need. :Thumbs:


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

747, is that your plain hitting the smiley in your avatar?

Bob


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

I like that avatar. Wish i lived in south central illinois. The gas prices there are always cheaper then up north. When i left home i filled up for 2.92 a gallon. Your probably at 2.70 a gallon just a guess. Unless you were refering to me stating bankruptcy. I don't want to see any contractor have to do that. I was just saying inc. is protection for a contractors personal assests. When your self employed i would definately do everything to protect my personal assests.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

747 - if you are talking about bankruptcy as a result of borrowed debt - when you are incorporated it is very difficult to borrow money without personally guaranteeing it. Everybody who is in the business of loaning money is well aware of the pitfalls of loaning money to a corporation and requires a personal guarantee which voids any protection being incorporated offers you. Establishing credit for a corporation seems to be a well kept secret.

Protection of your personal assets from beng attached due to legal issues such as being sued is a real benefit of incorporation.


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

Yes that is the point i was trying to make michael.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Turn a decent profit for a few years and folks will try and throw money at you or want you to go public. I figure that I recycle about 1 good sized tree a year.


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## Mudd Dogg (Sep 14, 2005)

Thanks everyone I really appreciate all the good information. I'll keep it all in mind as I continue on with my business. Like I said before I want my business to succeed, I won't give up without a fight. 

747, thats a good idea, about the retired drwall sub. Haven't thought of that, obviously. 

Thanx again everyone.


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## eastonsmith (Feb 12, 2007)

fairly simple on the ceiling board count take the sq. footage divide by 48 (if you use 4x12 sheets, 32 if you use 4x8 sheets). if vaulted you have to take the change in wall height into the equation, but you can see were to take it from there my friend


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## taper71 (Dec 5, 2006)

Hello Mudd dog I am in the same boat as you as I work as a sub for a sub. I haven't Gone inc yet but do have all the insurances. I know from experience that I couldn't handle cutting out the guy I sub off of. Too much headache. dealing with GC's picking up garbage , going back to the same house after you finished because they had to take drywall down to check for insulation probs, or electical probs or something in the framing is crooked and they don't fix it until the homeowner complains. Going back because every other trade bashed into your finished work hauling in their material. I'm not saying that it is better my way ,I just go in tape ,sand and off to the next one, no going back 17 times and I make a alot of money still without the headaches. I just hired my wife to help, the money stays in the familly and I trained her my way because like you said evey other drywaller out there has there own way of doing things. Really all I am saying is there is alot more to cutting out the middle man than you may think. I personally couldn't handle it beacause I don't have the patience. I am not trying to discourage you - go for it if you have the ambition , just be prepared to handle all the little stuff that you don't see because the middle man takes care of it.


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## RockStar (May 11, 2006)

*Florida Laws*

Hey Mudd,
The reason the sub your working for made you incorporate is so he wouldn't have to consider you an employee in the State or Federal govs eyes, if he is ever audited. Any of us that has ever had that happen can attest, it's horrible what they do to you now-a-days.

As far as screwing the guy, unfortunately some day you are going to leave and your boss will say you screwed him by doing so. It's what your boss did to his boss and so on.
If you have only worked for this one company (guy) you may want to get out and work for some other people. Try to learn as much as possible. After seeing what it takes to run a successful company you may decide it's not for you. For every one successful company there is probably about 1000 unsuccessful ones.
Learn to market yourself. If you ever decide to go into business or find a better job, it's a great skill to have.
~Good luck:boat:


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