# Working for family! Bad idea!



## pdmig (Nov 21, 2010)

I figure the "family rate" when doing jobs for family. If they are doing well and I am struggling then they pay more.
My rich uncle thinks I am expensive and will not hire me. The cousin understands that I do good work and always paid and never asks. I always bill fair and work my but off for the guy. Got to set the expectations up front with family.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> Should have mentioned ... the other reason they didn't want to pay me; they had just booked flights for an exotic vacation for the whole family and used up the money ear-marked for me!!


I had a cousin try that on me - then two days later he was posting on facebook about him and his wifey going to Key West, and the Bahamas ...

As if I'm supposed to subsidize his vacations? Fat chance pal!

If I work for family, they pay not only my rate - but also the PITA fee. Well, other than my baby sis. I'll work for her for free, but it's appreciated


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> Made the mistake of working for friends once ... did a complete bathroom reno (gutted to studs, new drywall including ceiling, radiant heat, new fixtures, pot lights, etc etc) ... all said & done was about 4 weeks of work for which I was paid $2000 in labor + materials at cost. My initial estimate was exactly $2000 (I gave them an absurdly low rate as they are a young couple with small kids new to the area) & it came in exactly on estimate although I actually did about 1 week of extra out-of-scope work to get that cheque from them ... however their vanity (which they picked out & paid for) was double what they budgeted so they wanted me to reduce my bill so that they would stay within their ridiculous budget which they only shared with me on the last day.
> Once this job was done they had the cheek to ask me to quote for a kitchen in their downstairs suite ... and they expected my rate to be considerably reduced as apparently $2000 for a complete bathroom was crazy ;-) My estimate came in at around $15K which was my diplomatic way of saying perhaps try Craigslist next time ... or the homeless shelter ;-)
> 
> I also did a complete home layout for them including ideas for the remodel of the upstairs they were contemplating ... when I handed it to them they just said "Oh, put it over there". Not a word of thanks.
> ...



Nothing irks me more than when someone doesn't--at minimum--- say "thank you" when it is most deserved. I go WAY out of my way to help my friends when they need it--all i ever need is a thank you and I'm happy. It's pretty easy to figure out who the "true" friends are.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

I've got a brother who I did all sorts of work for free. It was a one way street. After getting burned about 5 times I simply said " I don't need this in my life" 

Haven't talked to him in almost 30 years. And I'm happier for it, sorry to say.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I must be one of the lucky one's as I've never had a problem working for family. I quote my "family price", they take it or leave it. One of my mother's neighbors asked me how I could charge my mother and I just told her that if I did it for free I wouldn't have an income for the time spent doing the job.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

katoman said:


> I've got a brother who I did all sorts of work for free. It was a one way street. After getting burned about 5 times I simply said " I don't need this in my life"
> 
> Haven't talked to him in almost 30 years. And I'm happier for it, sorry to say.


I'm sorry to hear that. Well, at least you're happier - nobody likes a pissed off polar bear :whistling

Me and my baby sis are really close, or she'd be just like the other family members - what I'd charge another customer PLUS the PITA fee and maximum legally allowed deposit.


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

smalpierre said:


> I had a cousin try that on me - then two days later he was posting on facebook about him and his wifey going to Key West, and the Bahamas ...
> 
> As if I'm supposed to subsidize his vacations? Fat chance pal!
> 
> If I work for family, they pay not only my rate - but also the PITA fee. Well, other than my baby sis. I'll work for her for free, but it's appreciated


What's worse ... a few months later I drive past their place; new metal roof (which I got my roofing guy to quote them for & they presumably went for the cheapest option ... some folks never learn as the previous 4 year old roof was being replaced 'cos it was installed with not one single vent), new retaining wall (no permit), landscaping, new front door & whatever else inside that I couldn't see ;-) I do know the HO did his own electrical with hidden junction boxes and other such delights. Would be ironic if the place burnt down & only thing left standing was my bathroom LOL


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> What's worse ... a few months later I drive past their place; new metal roof (which I got my roofing guy to quote them for & they presumably went for the cheapest option ... some folks never learn as the previous 4 year old roof was being replaced 'cos it was installed with not one single vent), new retaining wall (no permit), landscaping, new front door & whatever else inside that I couldn't see ;-) I do know the HO did his own electrical with hidden junction boxes and other such delights. Would be ironic if the place burnt down & only thing left standing was my bathroom LOL


What a jerk. If he didn't have kids, I'd almost hope he used speaker wire on a 30 amp breaker, and put a space heater on the outlet. You can't protect some people from their own stupidity ... that's why we have: http://www.darwinawards.com/

On second thought, make that a 100 amp breaker.


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

katoman said:


> I've got a brother who I did all sorts of work for free. It was a one way street. After getting burned about 5 times I simply said " I don't need this in my life"
> 
> Haven't talked to him in almost 30 years. And I'm happier for it, sorry to say.


My brother is programmer for major international company making well
Over triple digits. He got a quote off some guy to do tear off roof. It was 9k it was to much for him to spend so
He called and ask if
I would
Help so I brought my guys out and work for four days paid my guys wages. He gave me 200 I laughed and he said what's wrong I told him nothing is. When my
Computer crashed I called
Him he said he was busy to c if I could get someone else to fix it ! I still love him and I probably still didn't learn my
Lesson ! He keeps telling me he is coming to
Help me on my house it's been 8 months haven't seen him yet. Just family functions I still shake his hand and hug him tell
Him
I love him maybe he will wake up some day and value family
More than money!


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Flyfishing1 said:


> My brother is programmer for major international company making well
> Over triple digits. He got a quote off some guy to do tear off roof. It was 9k it was to much for him to spend so
> He called and ask if
> I would
> ...


Yes, that about sums up my experience x 5. I'd had enough and told him so. You can't pick your family. Some good, some bad.

He too values money more than family. Don't know where that comes from.


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

smalpierre said:


> What a jerk. If he didn't have kids, I'd almost hope he used speaker wire on a 30 amp breaker, and put a space heater on the outlet. You can't protect some people from their own stupidity ... that's why we have: http://www.darwinawards.com/
> 
> On second thought, make that a 100 amp breaker.


I saw the deck & deck roof that some other "handyman" did for them ... I guess there was a shortage of 8x8 posts that day as the main structural supports for the roof were basically made from a bunch of small 2x4 lengths nailed together to make a post (of sorts) ... the "posts" were only 8' long so there must have been a shortage of 8 footers that day too ... or perhaps it's what he found at the landfill. The HO's wife complained that this guy had spent 40mins on the phone every day while having his lunch ... perhaps he was shopping around for longer pieces of wood LOL


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

My final comment on this guy before I get accused of taking over this thread (oops too late) ... I had agreed right at the start of everything to take the construction debris to the landfill for him (at his cost with his trailer). What I did not agree to was him filling it up with debris from all the other jobs he had done plus crap he had in storage ... and then forgetting his wallet when we got to the landfill. You can only imagine some of the plots I was hatching in my head after that ... needless to say I did the right thing; I erased them from Facebook which I gather is the ultimate insult these days LOL


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Should also be *& Friends.*

Seems everyone thinks Contractors get these huge discounts at supply houses/yards.

Ya, there's a little bit for paying on time & being loyal, but they are shocked that a half dozen 2x4's & a couple of hinges aren't half price.


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## CENTERLINE MV (Jan 9, 2011)

Flyfishing1 said:


> My brother is programmer for major international company making well
> Over triple digits. He got a quote off some guy to do tear off roof. It was 9k it was to much for him to spend so
> He called and ask if
> I would
> ...


:blink: if that's not brotherly love, I don't know what is. There is no excuse for that. I'd rather not get anything, the $200 is almost insulting.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> I saw the deck & deck roof that some other "handyman" did for them ... I guess there was a shortage of 8x8 posts that day as the main structural supports for the roof were basically made from a bunch of small 2x4 lengths nailed together to make a post (of sorts) ... the "posts" were only 8' long so there must have been a shortage of 8 footers that day too ... or perhaps it's what he found at the landfill. The HO's wife complained that this guy had spent 40mins on the phone every day while having his lunch ... perhaps he was shopping around for longer pieces of wood LOL


I've never once had a customer complain about a 40 minute lunch, OR what I did at that time. I've gone to lunch, and went and played a round of disc golf (couldn't resist the course was right there!). But I finish my jobs on time, and I don't cobble together garbage either :laughing:


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

CENTERLINE MV said:


> :blink: if that's not brotherly love, I don't know what is. There is no excuse for that. I'd rather not get anything, the $200 is almost insulting.


My thoughts exactly - I would definitely consider it insulting.


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

thom said:


> No, they never will. It's fine with me, my life is good. Funny, I'm the black sheep in the family, the rest are dedicated evangelicals, I'm the atheist. I treat people very generously they tend to be very self serving. Last year, (they'd been living in the house 13 years) they found a bubble in their stucco (it's synthetic). When they called I said I would take care of it, I had the stucco contractor out their 3 days later, he fixed it, restuccoed the entire wall, I paid for it, never asked them for a dime, never said anything. My brother-in-law says "It's a good thing you recognized it was your fault and fixed it".
> 
> No, I'm not saying I'm better, I'm not. I'm saying treating others generously ends up being a more profitable way to live. There really is a carma thing, but it's not at all supernatural. If you treat others well, people with bring their business to you because they want to be treated well, it's just that simple. You really can charge more for treating people well and, your life will be more fun/less stressful. Sure, at times you get abused but on balance, it's a winning strategy.


Sounds like u need a match ! Lol


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> I saw the deck & deck roof that some other "handyman" did for them ... I guess there was a shortage of 8x8 posts that day as the main structural supports for the roof were basically made from a bunch of small 2x4 lengths nailed together to make a post (of sorts) ... the "posts" were only 8' long so there must have been a shortage of 8 footers that day too ... or perhaps it's what he found at the landfill. The HO's wife complained that this guy had spent 40mins on the phone every day while having his lunch ... perhaps he was shopping around for longer pieces of wood LOL


Ur killing me here! I can't stop laughing !


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## Bonzai (Dec 23, 2009)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Ur killing me here! I can't stop laughing !


I firmly believe that people get what is coming to them ... and in this case it will be in a large dumper truck, the color of poo, smell like poo, taste like poo and probably be poo :whistling


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Bonzai said:


> I firmly believe that people get what is coming to them ... and in this case it will be in a large dumper truck, the color of poo, smell like poo, taste like poo and probably be poo :whistling


From your description of that deck, it sounds like the truck already got there hahaha!


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

thom said:


> No, they never will. It's fine with me, my life is good. Funny, I'm the black sheep in the family, the rest are dedicated evangelicals, I'm the atheist. I treat people very generously they tend to be very self serving. Last year, (they'd been living in the house 13 years) they found a bubble in their stucco (it's synthetic). When they called I said I would take care of it, I had the stucco contractor out their 3 days later, he fixed it, restuccoed the entire wall, I paid for it, never asked them for a dime, never said anything. My brother-in-law says "It's a good thing you recognized it was your fault and fixed it".
> 
> No, I'm not saying I'm better, I'm not. I'm saying treating others generously ends up being a more profitable way to live. There really is a carma thing, but it's not at all supernatural. If you treat others well, people with bring their business to you because they want to be treated well, it's just that simple. You really can charge more for treating people well and, your life will be more fun/less stressful. Sure, at times you get abused but on balance, it's a winning strategy.



rage......rage......rage.....I.....read....make...me...rage...

Im like frustrated for you, wow I would honestly loose my poop if anyone in my family said that to me after doing what you did.


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

All this stuff about family is pretty sad. I've got a really tight bond with my brother.

He is some computer dood who makes games for a living and is well on his way to be a millionaire. He treats me with respect and wont let me pay for anything. If I were to do a job for him Id want to do it for free, because of all the things he has done for me, but he would probably pay me fair wage if not MORE for being his brother.

It breaks my heart to hear these kinds of stories, I am fortunate to have not had these problems with my family......yet anyways.


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## mgb (Oct 31, 2008)

Suprised some guys had their family calling them out as "ripping them off".

That would be a low blow for sure.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Bastien1337 said:


> All this stuff about family is pretty sad. I've got a really tight bond with my brother.
> 
> He is some computer dood who makes games for a living and is well on his way to be a millionaire. He treats me with respect and wont let me pay for anything. If I were to do a job for him Id want to do it for free, because of all the things he has done for me, but he would probably pay me fair wage if not MORE for being his brother.
> 
> It breaks my heart to hear these kinds of stories, I am fortunate to have not had these problems with my family......yet anyways.


The most heartbreaking part, is when you go the extra mile, do your best, and get treated like that ...

It's why I price myself out of family jobs - except for baby sis. I count myself lucky that I have one that cares. Well, my grandmother too, but she never asks for anything. For her, I have to make regular visits, and do things despite her protests 

When my grandma is gone, I'm outtahere - but only if my friend will take a warranty contract for jobs I've done in the meanwhile. I think he will, I don't have call backs, and I'll pay T&M. And if I'm lucky, baby sis will come too  The rest of them can suck a ... n ... egg?


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

mgb said:


> Suprised some guys had their family calling them out as "ripping them off".
> 
> That would be a low blow for sure.


Unfortunately, it falls under the same umbrella as a lowball. If you give someone an unbeatable price for whatever reason, they are the customer you don't want. They are the one that will want to pay for nothing, and expect the taj mahal in return. If you want to get nickel and dimed to death, and get a bad ref to boot - do it.

Just because someone is family, doesn't mean they aren't going to try to CL / LB you. Actually, it's more likely they will try to compare you to a crack monkey that will roof your house for $10 / square. They think family means "I can rip this guy off, and - hold my beer ... watch THIS!!! haha!!!"

They are laughing at you behind your back. At xmas dinner - you are the butt of their jokes - because you paid to work. What kind of idiot would do that!!! That they make way more than you is irrelevant. Actually, it's fuel to their fire. I hope they laugh their way into an electrical fire when the junkie they hired hooks up a speaker wire to a 240v 50A breaker to make their stove "work" on the cheap  Of course, when they fall on hard times, and YOU are the one making money ... they keep the silence. In these situations - silence is golden! I'm now watching an uncle that screwed me fall on his rear end in debt. Now when I hear his name - I can only think of the Beatles song that goes like this: "It won't be long YEAH YEAH YEAH!!! but I don't belong to you!" (lyrics mod'd!) hahaha! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3appHgJOUw0

These people play the family card just like they play the CL card. "I can get it done cheaper!!!" Yeah, and I can get my appendix removed cheaper too - but do you really want to? For most people, their home is their biggest investment. It blows my mind that people treat their stuff like they do - but one only needs to look at the local "cat lady" for reference :w00t:

My new policy - fam pays double contract price. Does that make this a "pricing" thread? :clap:

And a shout out to TNT - I think he's just helped me find a new angle on getting where I want to be! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn7ZGZn_sFw


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

i have done work for my inlaws....redid dr..drop ceiling

ceiling was too far gone and they did want to r/rpl or overlay

they were nice about it and insisted upon paying my contract rates...they havent paid up yet..been over a year but i do get installments.....

any work i do for friends is trade work..i work for you...you help me out back and forth


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

If your nephew turned his life around and is a good kid then good on you for doing it. Chalk it up as good Karma points. Do it for him and treat your sleezesters like they treat you.


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Yeah hope therwisted sisters realize what I was doing for at $97 sq ft full brick ranch complete! I texted my nephew said I would drop off drawings at his future dad n laws. He got back and said his dad n law wanted to talked or more like beg me to reconsider. I think he realiEs what i was doing for his daughter and my nephew. Evidently the twisted sisters don't think I'm doing enough! I'm doing electric from street in complete with hanging lights for $800 labor which just covers labor cost if everything is smooth! But sisters boyfriend has a guy who's uncle is related to their third cousin who married his half sister who knows this guy that got a divorce from their aunt who just moved here and is set up in a temporary encampment under this bridge who is trying to save up money to advertise on craigslist for work who owes my sisters boyfriend a favor so he is going to do electric for free plus a qt of beer! Schimdts at that!

I tried telling them that leaves open to many variables on completion of electric I would have to think he will do it i'n the evening after dark cause people won't b able to read his sign saying " will work for food"

That adds another sub I will b n charge of so they can save 800. So I walked away from job asap! I will keep everyone posted I have to talk with dad n law n little bit.

I'm going to tell him that my whole being is telling me to walk now! If they want me to continue @ $97 a sq ft there will be addendums that they might not like such as non disclosure with 6% of total job deposited and if any info is divulged to twisted sisters I'm grabbing penalty money finishing what ever phase I'm on and walking! Anything less than that I can't do the job.

Hate to treat it that way but CYA!


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## cabinet runner (Nov 11, 2008)

I don't know . I take a different method . I do work for my sister , brother and my inlaws once in awhile . 

For the inlaws I won't take their money unless it's for materials . They have done so many things for my family(esp my kids ) over the years I am glad to help them out and they don't ask often.I built their deck , put laminate flooring down in the kitchen , dining room and redid both their bathrooms , new toilets , vanities and tops and flooring .



My brother is a great guy who bought his 1st house about 1 year ago .I went up (1 1/2 hours away ) a few times while the house was under construction and did a framing check and just made sure things were being done properly . I helped him with this punch list before settlement. After he moved in I went up 3 times and ran crown molding throughout , trimmed out his windows and other various trim upgrades .The builder was very high on these upgraddes so I offered to do them after they moved in . I only asked him for gas money and tool expenses , nails ect . Had a good time and in 43 years he had never asked me for anything before . I was glad to help him out .

My sister lives outta state and I have done some majorwork for her .New roof , 16' x 24' addition , Lots of trim work , converted their garage into a bedroom . Each time they paid for my airfare and paid me $500.00 per day and supplied me with local laborers on the days I needed help . I worked very hard for them and they appreciated it knowing full well they saved alot of money vs hiring a local contractor . More importantly they knew I would do a good job and they could trust me . I interviewed the subs needed for certain aspects of the jobs couldn't handle and all went well .If she didn;t live outta state I would have done this work for way less but I had to take off work so it was a different situation vs other family memebers I have done work for . Not to mention her work wasn't running some crown or puttting down some flooring . These were big expensive jobs . 

So in general I have had very good expeirences working for family though working for friends has been a different animal and there are only 2 I will do anything for and they pay accordingly . As for family I have a great one and am always glad to help them out . When my parents were alive i did anything and everything for them . I felt I owed it to them for raising me and putting up with my troubles as a youth . Shoot I felt I never paid them back for everything they did for me over the years . I do not do any work for my extended family , cousins , aunts and uncles ect . I don't feel the same connection and would have to treat them like regular customers and think that may cause some of the problems others in this thread talked about. But for my immediate family , I would do anything to help them out if I can .I feel like this is what family is all about . but that just my take on it .


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Ur absolutly right I have done so
Much for my brother and three sisters with out asking for a dime. I still call my dad out of retirement, once i'n a blue moon I spent 365 days a yr 20+ yrs wrking with my dad wouldn't trade
That for millions money isn't that important. But when headaches are caused and stress
Mounts when ur trying to save family thousands u gotta ask ur self us it worth it. I just want to help
Him without having to many hands on the steering wheel they read on the Internet and that makes them pros! They don't understand how fast things can change and b over budget mind u my nephew is only approved for X at the bank and that is strecthing it


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## cabinet runner (Nov 11, 2008)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Ur absolutly right I have done so
> Much for my brother and three sisters with out asking for a dime. I still call my dad out of retirement, once i'n a blue moon I spent 365 days a yr 20+ yrs wrking with my dad wouldn't tradeThat for millions money isn't that important. But when headaches are caused and stressMounts when ur trying to save family thousands u gotta ask ur self us it worth it. I just want to help
> Him without having to many hands on the steering wheel they read on the Internet and that makes them pros! They don't understand how fast things can change and b over budget mind u my nephew is only approved for X at the bank and that is strecthing it


 
Yes and building an entire house is not something a good family member would ask of another without expecting to compensate the other family member adequately for . Just way to much time and work involved for that to be a favor . 

Also for me a nephew is not a mother or father ect .For me mom or dad when they were alive and even the inlaws get the royal treatment . I actaully enjoy doing projects for my inlaws as I feel I can't repay them for when they watched my kids for a whole week so I could take the wife on a Carribean Vacation . That was a priceless favor on their part IMO .Or when they let us move in rent free while we built our house . They are great people .

Everyone's family situation is different but I think normally parents and inlaws deserve to beneift from having a family member with skills . Brothers , and sisters would depend on the people and nephews , nieces and cousins would also depend on the individuals involved and what they were being asking to have done . 

Working for friends is also a slippery slope I now pretty much avoid . I'll let close friends use my discount at the lumber yard sometimes and I will work for a few close friends at a minimum daily rate . In the past I was taken avantage of and it didn't feel good at all so I put a stop to it . Lord knows there are people who will take and take and take some more if you let them . 

I think the OP was clearly being taken advantage of , or tried to be , expected to do the whole house for no profit or even a decent wage . I'd hate to think the crap he woulda went through if he actually did the job . Endless changes with no expectation of paying for them , problems paying subs , problems getting paid at all , nothing done good enough or fast enough , constant questioning of subs prices with the old .......we could get so and so for much cheaper ect ,ect. 

Hopefully this relative will get other prices and realize what a good deal they were getting and apologize but I wouldn't hold your breath . I do think in the end he is much better of NOT getting involved at all in this project .


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

I actually made it a part of the scope that he is required to obtain two other quotes before signing a contract. So that they will know what kinda if a deal they are getting. I even made them packets to submit for other quotes so that would be easier for them. My nephews dad n law called
Me but he said he was to meet with me to break bread! I'm trying my best to protect my nephew from the so called family members who know this person who will do it for free because they owe somebody a favor. I will not let him travel that road cause at the end u either get inferior work or a bill at the end u were not expecting or ur other trades are held up, etc. My brother and father also agree that I should stand my ground to protect him from the will work for food contractors!


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

Flyfishing1 said:


> I tried telling them that leaves open to many variables on completion of electric I would have to think he will do it i'n the evening after dark cause people won't b able to read his sign saying " will work for food"


Sounds like a fire waiting to happen. Since this is your nephew and since you sound like you care you may want to think about working secretly with him and the dad so that he doesn't end up with his house burning down or for that matter falling down.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

There is an old saying "whenever you loan money to a friend or family, consider it a gift". This goes double for construction labor. They fiqure since you are family you should do it for free. I mean after all if you owned a restaurant would you charge your homeless mother for food? I know, it's not the same but that's how they look at it


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Update on my nephew project: I talked to dad n law he wants to know what we gotta do to our this behind us so the project can start off good, lol. I told him to keep the wolves out of the flock of sheep. Basically I found out what the problem is. My sisters and dad n law want me to print my detailed pricing of what I'm charging them for all the trades including myself. I told him my sisters planted this seed i'n his head that I'm over charging him @ $97 sq ft. Back me up on this who out there think that at that price for ranch style home with full brick, concrete polished countertops, ceramic, whole house air and gas heat, complete with close cell spray foam insulation on foundation , walls, ceiling. Comedy
Finished with all utilities hooked up and operational with stone driveway. I find it appalling they think I'm
Overcharging and want me to print it out.

My response was that I won't print a fn thing cause if u r at the level of distrust before a shovel hits the ground I dint want this job! If I can b of any service to u it would b to help u dinalze ur permitting and handing anything over that would assist u in moving forward with ur project.

I did tell them that I will
Meet with u one last time but wont print nothing but will show u exactly what my charges are the inly ones allowed to b present are dad n law and my nephew there is no writing allowed no cooies if anything handed out period. Once I click that button to turn estimating program on there is no turning back I will not do ur job! I'm not into headaches and stress but did offer after that to consult with them on their project 

The reason they want it broke down is my sisters think the can shingles nail i'n place cheaper than the .33 sq ft good luck with that. Or prep and finish 2200 sq ft of concrete work for .38 sq ft these are 1960 prices I gave him. I love my neph but the level
Of dis respect my sisters have for me out weighs the
Love to much sorry neph once bitten twice shy ! Please give me
Feed back so I may show this to him tomorrow and let
Him know what other lumber necks think


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Mom and Dad (including in-laws), Grand parents, brothers and sisters, I would never charge a dime for anything. Beyond that, relative wise, don't even ask for anything but advise. I do have several friends that we do what needs to be done, although the beer and BBQ overhead can get pricey.


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## Snobnd (Jul 1, 2008)

I have been flown to LA Calf 2wice to work on My older brothers House, now im about to fly back to work for another brothers in San Jose, and I can tell you I would do it for free if they let me! (But friends of the family is a differant story) I hope things work out for you!


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## Rob PA (Aug 30, 2010)

if they are buggin you for a break down..i wouldnt spend any more time or worry on it

let them complain to you about them screwing it up instead of accusing you of doing it


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Update on my nephew project: I talked to dad n law he wants to know what we gotta do to our this behind us so the project can start off good, lol. I told him to keep the wolves out of the flock of sheep. Basically I found out what the problem is. My sisters and dad n law want me to print my detailed pricing of what I'm charging them for all the trades including myself. I told him my sisters planted this seed i'n his head that I'm over charging him @ $97 sq ft. Back me up on this who out there think that at that price for ranch style home with full brick, concrete polished countertops, ceramic, whole house air and gas heat, complete with close cell spray foam insulation on foundation , walls, ceiling. Comedy
> Finished with all utilities hooked up and operational with stone driveway. I find it appalling they think I'm
> Overcharging and want me to print it out.
> 
> ...


Don't even consider doing this job, just RUN


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

jhark123 said:


> Don't even consider doing this job, just RUN


Yup, no way in a million years could this ever turn out good for you.

:no:


Tell them you will be there for them when they need advice. Other than that hope they have a nice home in the end. See ya.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Maybe you should tell them all if they quit their jobs and come work for free while the house is being built, then you will too.


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## 3bar (Jan 14, 2011)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Update on my nephew project: I talked to dad n law he wants to know what we gotta do to our this behind us so the project can start off good, lol. I told him to keep the wolves out of the flock of sheep. Basically I found out what the problem is. My sisters and dad n law want me to print my detailed pricing of what I'm charging them for all the trades including myself. I told him my sisters planted this seed i'n his head that I'm over charging him @ $97 sq ft. Back me up on this who out there think that at that price for ranch style home with full brick, concrete polished countertops, ceramic, whole house air and gas heat, complete with close cell spray foam insulation on foundation , walls, ceiling. Comedy
> Finished with all utilities hooked up and operational with stone driveway. I find it appalling they think I'm
> Overcharging and want me to print it out.
> 
> ...


it hurt to read that. i hope you dont build like you write. :whistling


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

Well hopefully you can save your nephew from a fatal mistake. Perhaps a restraining order banning your sisters from coming on site...?


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

3bar said:


> it hurt to read that. i hope you dont build like you write. :whistling


Well sorry u had a hard time reading that. But 20 yrs ago I had my hand on the edge of my buddies pick up truck looking the other way. And it just so happens that he slammed my fingers in the tailgate.

I lost my right index and middle finger down to my palm. But that's ok u have a hard time reading. Not everybody is as perfect as you. You should try to taping your fingers together and try tapping on an I phone.

Better yet u should try to install tape on your lips that way u wouldn't sound like an @ss when you are insulting the handicap.

I build fine, never been sued, never lost a dime on my contracts and am college educated.

You remind me of some the ignorant people who stare at my twenty year old son who has a 2nd grade learning disability. Worst part about it is that u probably go to church and still throw insults to people u have never meant.

I typed this real slow incase you have a reading problem. 20 yrs ago I passed up
Finishing my engineering degree to help with my son. I'm sorry I chose my handicap son over money.

I chose this profession so I could take him to school to protect him. I still take him every day somewhere.

People like u make me sick. I have never meant you but I can guarantee that I would not like you. 

I think of all the people over the years who have insulted my son and I class u with them no class, no character, no conscious
Believe me when I say may u never endure the things my son or I have had to deal with from
Ignorant people
Such as your self. 

Sad part about the comment is that us truly the way you are. And you put a big front on for your customers when they call
Your number out if crags list. I've got you
Pinned as a phony person.

I hope everything is spelled correctly
For satisfaction. All in all I know I can do things with my hand faster than slot of people cause you never want to under estimate the handicap.

Twice a year I volunteer myself and my
Crew to do ADA remodeling work totally
Free. What do u do besides insult the kind I people help

Over and out you ignoramus !

I just joined this site and if this the quality of people here I doubt I will return


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## tbronson (Feb 22, 2010)

Don't let him throw you mate. Sometimes people speak without thinking and sometimes people have a bad day. Most importantly good on you for doing what you have done both for your son and your nephew. I wish there were more people in the world like you. It would be a better place.


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## Winchester (Jun 29, 2008)

Wowzers.

here we go again...

Some people are extra assholes online compared to real-life, and some people are extra-sensitive.

Never turns out well.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

You guys don't even want to hear my family story. Very insane story that I will actually not post on here.

Bottom line. Do not do it.


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## 3bar (Jan 14, 2011)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Well sorry u had a hard time reading that. But 20 yrs ago I had my hand on the edge of my buddies pick up truck looking the other way. And it just so happens that he slammed my fingers in the tailgate.
> 
> I lost my right index and middle finger down to my palm. But that's ok u have a hard time reading. Not everybody is as perfect as you. You should try to taping your fingers together and try tapping on an I phone.
> 
> ...


i guess you cant take a joke. lighten up.


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Oh I can take a joke u should
C how I use to type &/8jsnskz / that's is what it use to look like.
I am light, would
U actually walk up to a handicapp person and say it
To their face or behind their back. U just never now who ur typing to. I'm not offended at all by ur remark my handicap is minimal
Compared to those I do work for. If u could inly deal with the ignorant people I have dealt with i'n public places with my son u would probably understand the response I gave you! I'm going
To b big here an say I'm sorry cause
Years ago I said

"live i'n serenity not getting even"

My apologies


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## 3bar (Jan 14, 2011)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Oh I can take a joke u should
> C how I use to type &/8jsnskz / that's is what it use to look like.
> I am light, would
> U actually walk up to a handicapp person and say it
> ...


accepted, and sorry for lighting a fire under you.:laughing:


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

Rob PA said:


> if they are buggin you for a break down..i wouldnt spend any more time or worry on it
> 
> let them complain to you about them screwing it up instead of accusing you of doing it


:clap:

i would talk to him and tell him how much you *were* going to save them. then tell him the offer is now $107 sq ft. see if they get the picture. if they have any complaints about you raising the price raise it to $115. keep doing this until they get the picture. seriously

On occasion i do work for family and friends and neighbors. i would rather not but this economy is not working in my best interest.:sad:
when i do its at a discounted hourly rate. you want me to work i clock in you want me to leave i clock out. always do quality work so thats not an issue.

-their is a good side to working for family . . . when a real customer says something to piss us off, or insults us most of us try to bite our tongue and act professional. with family you have every right to just curse them out and let them have it, you can vent for all the times you had to bite your tongue with actual paying customers.:w00t::w00t:


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Well sorry u had a hard time reading that. But 20 yrs ago I had my hand on the edge of my buddies pick up truck looking the other way. And it just so happens that he slammed my fingers in the tailgate.
> 
> I lost my right index and middle finger down to my palm. But that's ok u have a hard time reading. Not everybody is as perfect as you. You should try to taping your fingers together and try tapping on an I phone.
> 
> ...


defensive much

dude no one could have known that to begin with. secondly I type with two fingers. It takes nothing to go back and double check your spelling or grammar. Im not a nazi about those things like most people can be like on the interwebs. But that was a brutal read, if you can type at all you can spellcheck and grammar check. Dont hide behind this injury as an excuse for being too lazy to double check your writing. 

show me a pic of you with no arms or legs then maybe I'll reconsider your poor typing and then your instant bs flame.


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## MAULEMALL (May 16, 2010)

http://www.iespell.com/


It's free


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## AlanJackson (Jan 18, 2011)

i never do a work for a family member they want to pay you taking you to a nice restaurant and giving you water while you working in their new bathroom remodeling.. it sucks i want money not water or pizza...


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## tazmanian (Jul 22, 2010)

worked for my family business for 21 years made lots of money and it was great................loved working with family


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Bastien1337 said:


> defensive much
> 
> dude no one could have known that to begin with. secondly I type with two fingers. It takes nothing to go back and double check your spelling or grammar. Im not a nazi about those things like most people can be like on the interwebs. But that was a brutal read, if you can type at all you can spellcheck and grammar check. Dont hide behind this injury as an excuse for being too lazy to double check your writing.
> 
> show me a pic of you with no arms or legs then maybe I'll reconsider your poor typing and then your instant bs flame.


Well if u haven't read the whole story and decided to jump in the middle u would have read I already apologized to him and he did the same.

So throwing gas on something that is done and over with is worthless. My whole point is exactly what u said on the Internet there is no way no one knows the others circumstances. So we all r probably better off keeping it professional rather than making comments as we both did.

I don't hide behind my injury at all, I have worked with the handicap for the last twenty yrs. Those people are truly the heros.

They face daily challenges that u nor I will ever imagine. A good friend if my sons is i'n chair severely retarded his mom and dad was caring him up and down the stairs every day. We went over there and put bedroom with bath on first level Ada complete remodel. Free of charge.

As for ur comment of lazy ask urself when the last time u spent 20k of ur money to help someone in need. I bet u couldn't find an answer. 

Do me a favor please and send me the app for my I phone that does spell check and grammar corrections for when ur driving down the road typing with thumb that is like a sausage link.

As far as u saying a picture with no arms and legs if someone u would then excuse the typing, are u forgetting the blind, another handicaps that exist i'n this world or is that ur definition a handicap person.

Let me apologize to now rather than wait for your brutal reply.


Sebastian I'm sorry that I offended you with the brutal read as it was, and for anything u may read i'n this response


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

*As for ur comment of lazy ask urself when the last time u spent 20k of ur money to help someone in need. I bet u couldn't find an answer.

*this just doesn't relate to what I was saying at all.Why you feel the need to equate this type of statement to my reply about your typing is beyond me. 

And you dont know anything about me. You dont know about the horrific car crash I was in on october 4 2004 that left me unable to walk for three months or about the fact that I have a plate in my hip with 9 pins holding it in place so it could heal, because the head of my femur was obliterated. Or about the fact that my face went through windsheild leaving a huge scar right under my eyebrows almost blinding me. 

So you can get off your high and mighty horse and your pre-apologizes and stop assuming like you're the only person who has suffered hardship.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i stayed at a holiday inn express last nite


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

> i stayed at a holiday inn express last nite


Outch, I guess the W was sold out?:laughing:


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Let me repeat myself. As someone who has worked for family most of my life, then having immediate family work for me and trusting them greatly with very important stuff... DO NOT DO IT!


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Let me repeat myself. As someone who has worked for family most of my life, then having immediate family work for me and trusting them greatly with very important stuff... DO NOT DO IT!


this sure shoots the Hell out of the idea that our family business is in it's 3rd generation, huh? as long as everybody is upfront/straight forward...hit problems head on before they mushroom....we've had literally..zero problems


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Tscarborough said:


> Mom and Dad (including in-laws), Grand parents, brothers and sisters, I would never charge a dime for anything. Beyond that, relative wise, don't even ask for anything but advise. I do have several friends that we do what needs to be done, although the beer and BBQ overhead can get pricey.


I wish I were your sibling. I'd probably ask you for a 16 story office building complex.


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

dayexco said:


> this sure shoots the Hell out of the idea that our family business is in it's 3rd generation, huh? as long as everybody is upfront/straight forward...hit problems head on before they mushroom....we've had literally..zero problems



Very rare that it actually works out. Good for you though. Not everyone must have access to the bank account!


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Very rare that it actually works out. Good for you though. Not everyone must have access to the bank account!


no, but it's open to review to all concerned parties.


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Bastien1337 said:


> As for ur comment of lazy ask urself when the last time u spent 20k of ur money to help someone in need. I bet u couldn't find an answer.
> 
> this just doesn't relate to what I was saying at all.Why you feel the need to equate this type of statement to my reply about your typing is beyond me.
> 
> ...


Sebastian let me give u another apology maybe that will keep this matter squashed out! I truly feel bad about ur accident! Check it out though I can relate to ur tragedy! In 2006 was down at fall
Bike week i'n south Carolina out by suck bang blow bar! By the way awesome bar! Sporting the leather "filthy Phil and his three fingers" filthy for short that's what my brothers call me maybe one day may u find it i'n ur heart to call
Me "filthy Phil"

U got me by one pin! I got eight and two
Lags running through my ankle to this day!
F n crushed my ankle. My girl she wasn't so lucky she didn't make it. Drunk driver ran light I had the bike sideways riding it out. I remember it like slow motion! I was laying it down and slid i'n side if car to the point if no return.

Do me a favor listen to "everlast" song called "lonely road" that is my song dedicated to her! I relive it everyday! As I'm sure u do ! Her and I were a match dude! A puzzle that fit!

Hope u can relate!

Truly sorry!
Seriously u n I aren't handicap just fortunate enough to live or r we!
Live in serenity not pain and hate


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## Bastien1337 (Dec 20, 2010)

Flyfishing1 said:


> Sebastian let me give u another apology maybe that will keep this matter squashed out! I truly feel bad about ur accident! Check it out though I can relate to ur tragedy! In 2006 was down at fall
> Bike week i'n south Carolina out by suck bang blow bar! By the way awesome bar! Sporting the leather "filthy Phil and his three fingers" filthy for short that's what my brothers call me maybe one day may u find it i'n ur heart to call
> Me "filthy Phil"
> 
> ...


alright man we cool.

I aint trying to hate on anybody. sometimes this internet stuff goes to your head and you cant help but argue. Peace


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

AlanJackson said:


> i never do a work for a family member they want to pay you taking you to a nice restaurant and giving you water while you working in their new bathroom remodeling.. it sucks i want money not water or pizza...



i love pizza whats wrong with pizza:w00t:

seriously though its true family wont even take you to the deli!


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Well had the last free meeting with my nephew and his future dad n law. I gave them blown up drawings. And told
Them I am not opening up my books until they take the drawings and submit them to other contractors for apple to apples estimates.

I also down loaded a non disclosure template and listed what is protected material such as text messages, contract documents, pricing, anything of the nature that if my sisters got a hold of that would start a family fight.

I listed penalties if agreement was violated and a bunch of other crap! It basically gives me an out if needed i'n a hurry.

In my contract I listed my payment phases as paid up front and won't move on until stake holders are satisfied with phase. I pretty
Much covered myself and am protecting my nephew from having to many hands on the steering wheel while he is navigating ! It also stops him from getting my sisters involved (I do love them but don't want the headaches that come with Internet home owner contractors!) 

His father n law gave them the property and financing the project so he is major stake holder in this also. I explained if ur mom and aunt start hiring out of criags list to try and save u money or get people that owe them favors( we all
Know how that scenario plays out).

That it will b on his father n law to shell
More money out. I as a contractor feel responsible to protect and satisfy the stake holders i'n a project.

I also added inserts to contract to protect my self with out a doubt and will stand
My ground if needed.


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## SSC (Feb 8, 2011)

so. . . . . . there's no pizza? :thumbdown


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

No pizza in, just five me
My wages keep my sisters out of picture and I'm happy


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## Flyfishing1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Sorry I meant to say give not five if I could figure out how to turn this auto spell off on my phone I would but it does come in handy!


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