# Drywall repair failure



## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

icerock drywall said:


> and what kind of mud did you use on your tape coat...Did u you light mud ?...and dont see to many screws ...did you add blocking ?
> 
> 
> 
> I add mudmax to my repair jobs...no need to paint first.



I have no idea what mud was used. It was 2 years ago.

It was screwed every 16" on joists.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Unless the tape kept the mud underneath it from drying longer than the area with no tape and that could be what made the primer and paint fail underneath the tape. It was just wet to long...
> 
> 
> 
> @Extrememtnbiker, How long did you wait before you second coated over the embeded tape and then before priming and painting?



Not sure. My Dad did the repair and it was two years ago. I think we used to wipe too much mud out on tape coat. That could be part of it.

The job was finishing off an attic as I mentioned. So I would assume there was no rush and we would have had a day between coats minimum.

When you explained how you do repairs, I have a couple questions.

So you spray Kilz as quick as you can I assume. This is not on the bare drywall for your patch, but on the surrounding surface that was existing. 12"-14" out?

Then after that dries, you tape with hot mud 20 or 45. Are you using the fibafuse tape or mesh?

How quickly can you put the next coat on? Guys on here have said things like, hot mud is dry but not cured.

With the fibafuse, my understanding is you could tape and then coat over the tape at the same time. Then I guess you would let that dry some, and do another coat.

Then come back and do a 3rd a different trip.

I'm just interested in a bit more info if you're willing to share.


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I have no idea what mud was used. It was 2 years ago.
> 
> It was screwed every 16" on joists.


if it was durabond the tape would not come off
same with ap if its mixed so It must be light crap...
2nd coat over ff with the 2'' roll is not good....might peek
I never prime before I do any repair...I might get a little bubble sometimes but no big deal.
with ff 36'' rolls you cant go wrong


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## BUTCHERMAN (Jan 19, 2008)

Sir Mixalot said:


> Unless the tape kept the mud underneath it from drying longer than the area with no tape and that could be what made the primer and paint fail underneath the tape. It was just wet to long...
> 
> @Extrememtnbiker, How long did you wait before you second coated over the embeded tape and then before priming and painting?


Exactly, if it was primed, then I might think the primer was still wet when taped.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Paper tape will stick to paint just fine. even with high gloss ..It will stick.

The op's pic looks like the tape was wiped too tight . Like Rob said poor adhesion . And now it's been redone with FF? Good luck!


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

blacktop said:


> Paper tape will stick to paint just fine. even with high gloss ..It will stick.
> 
> 
> 
> The op's pic looks like the tape was wiped too tight . Like Rob said poor adhesion . And now it's been redone with FF? Good luck!



So what's wrong with Fibafuse?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

blacktop said:


> The op's pic looks like the tape was wiped too tight .


Larn me, how do you do that? I thought the object was to squeeze just about everything out from under it.

As for sticking to the paint, it did in this instance.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> Larn me, how do you do that? I thought the object was to squeeze just about everything out from under it.
> It helps to leave mud under the tape.
> 
> As for sticking to the paint, it did in this instance.



Did you not see the bare rock? Kinda hard to see if it stuck to the painted surface ? Since It was a painted surface. But the bare board tells me there was no mud beneath the tape for adhesion . That's why it failed.

or not. I could be way off base! I''m just looking at a picture on the web!


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> So what's wrong with Fibafuse?


It ain't paper !:whistling


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

blacktop said:


> Did you not see the bare rock? Kinda hard to see if it stuck to the painted surface ? Since It was a painted surface. But the bare board tells me there was no mud beneath the tape for adhesion . That's why it failed.
> 
> 
> 
> or not. I could be way off base! I''m just looking at a picture on the web!



But there was paint between the tape and the board. Bare board proves the paint failed. Right?


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## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

blacktop said:


> It ain't paper !:whistling


And it makes my hands itchy... :blink:


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

blacktop said:


> It ain't paper !:whistling



Well isn't that helpful. :laughing: have you seen it fail?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> But there was paint between the tape and the board. Bare board proves the paint failed. Right?


After enlarging the pic ..It's messed up that the tape stuck to the painted surface but failed to the bare board ..seems like the other way around would have made more sense :blink:... I still say it was wiped too tight .


But lets take a step back here .. Why did you tear the tape off.. Did It crack or bubble up?? I think I missed that part . ADD!!


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

blacktop said:


> After enlarging the pic ..It's messed up that the tape stuck to the painted surface but failed to the bare board ..seems like the other way around would have made more sense :blink:... I still say it was wiped too tight .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The side it stuck to was the bare repair board. The side it failed was the already painted surface of the existing ceiling. 

But what you are seeing and calling bare board is the existing ceiling that was painted before my repair. The tape was cracking and hanging down a slight bit. I just pulled the tape off with my hands.

The paint pulled off the existing board. And was stuck to the tape/mud.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> The side it stuck to was the bare repair board. The side it failed was the already painted surface of the existing ceiling.
> 
> But what you are seeing and calling bare board is the existing ceiling that was painted before my repair. The tape was cracking and hanging down a slight bit. I just pulled the tape off with my hands.
> 
> The paint pulled off the existing board. And was stuck to the tape/mud.


unless I was there to do the patch work In the first place !It's really hard to say over the interweb! :laughing: :thumbsup:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

blacktop said:


> It ain't paper !:whistling


It's gods gift to rookie patching! I love it!


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## BUTCHERMAN (Jan 19, 2008)

Tinstaafl said:


> Larn me, how do you do that? I thought the object was to squeeze just about everything out from under it.
> 
> As for sticking to the paint, it did in this instance.


If it was regular drywall, then you are good to go. Over paint you can do that. It's just not likely.


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## BUTCHERMAN (Jan 19, 2008)

blacktop said:


> After enlarging the pic ..It's messed up that the tape stuck to the painted surface but failed to the bare board ..seems like the other way around would have made more sense :blink:... I still say it was wiped too tight .
> 
> 
> But lets take a step back here .. Why did you tear the tape off.. Did It crack or bubble up?? I think I missed that part . ADD!!


Not enough mud in setting the tape. Come on people this is taping 101. This is obvious.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

BUTCHERMAN said:


> Not enough mud in setting the tape. Come on people this is taping 101. This is obvious.


It did look like the new board was the high side..I agree . It was wiped too tight.


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## BUTCHERMAN (Jan 19, 2008)

blacktop said:


> It did look like the new board was the high side..I agree . It was wiped too tight.


What does that even mean? This sounds like that scene in the movie Major League where they said "It's not a homerun, it's too high".


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

BUTCHERMAN said:


> What does that even mean? This sounds like that scene in the movie Major League where they said "It's not a homerun, it's too high".


That tells me a lot about you.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I still don't see much other possibility than the mud under the tape staying wet, weakening the adhesion of the paint layer. To me, that's the only thing that fits.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

hdavis said:


> I still don't see much other possibility than the mud under the tape staying wet, weakening the adhesion of the paint layer. To me, that's the only thing that fits.



I don't know for sure what fits, but I see bare drywall where there used to be paint. Means the paint failed somehow right? :laughing:

Not saying it's not our fault though.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> Not saying it's not our fault though.


I can't come up with a way it would be your fault, other than you agreed to patch it.:thumbsup:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

This argument could go on forever, simple fact is the paint/primer failed for whatever reason. That shouldn't happen I don't care if you used contact cement. Not your fault but you should still fix it at no charge.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

avenge said:


> Not your fault but you should still fix it at no charge.



Which we did.


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## BUTCHERMAN (Jan 19, 2008)

blacktop said:


> That tells me a lot about you.


It tells me about you. You like to dismiss the obvious here because you don't want to offend. You can't correct a problem if you can't recognize it. Result: problem continues. The problem wasn't the wipe or mesh. It was lack of setting mud. See those dry spots? There are areas where the tape is shredded and still adhering. This dismisses your theory completely. Where you see the drywall paper are areas that have no setting compound. It could have peeled, but I doubt it. The areas that did adhere shredded the paper. The set mud wasn't thick enough. Taping 101. You can't over wipe drywall tape to where the underneath is completely dry. Sorry, you are wrong. If you want to solve the problem you have to recognize it. You clearly don't. Sorry if it offends you. You are totally wrong and making professionals here look stupid. That don't jive with me. I know better.


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## BUTCHERMAN (Jan 19, 2008)

Is it possible that the patch piece was 5/8 and the existing was 1/2 inch? It looks like a heavy fill that was weak.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BUTCHERMAN said:


> Where you see the drywall paper are areas that have no setting compound.


According to the OP, that was existing, which was painted, and the paint is now gone in those areas - it peeled off taking the mud with it. Also according to the OP, the paper tape you see is on the patch they put in, so it's stuck to bare drywall.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

hdavis said:


> According to the OP, that was existing, which was painted, and the paint is now gone in those areas - it peeled off taking the mud with it. Also according to the OP, the paper tape you see is on the patch they put in, so it's stuck to bare drywall.



You sir, are correct.

In the past, we had some issues with wiping too tight. The whole deal of trying to not build up too much. We have learned from that but not sure what stage of learning we were in two years ago when this happened.


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

I don't think it's wiped too tight. The tape stuck fine to the patch.

I'd say it's the mud under the tape keeping things moist long enough to break the bond. Makes the most sense to me.

Did the mud pull out if the screw holes when you pulled the tape?


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

SamM said:


> I don't think it's wiped too tight. The tape stuck fine to the patch.
> 
> I'd say it's the mud under the tape keeping things moist long enough to break the bond. Makes the most sense to me.
> 
> Did the mud pull out if the screw holes when you pulled the tape?



I think it was screwed farther back than the tape. I don't recall seeing screws.


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## thezoo (Sep 13, 2008)

Sorry guys, but i am confused by what you mean with "wiped too tight".
I put 1/8-3/16 of mud, embed tape, wipe with 4" pulling majority of mud off. Tape has maybe 1/16 of mud left under it. Can you pull more mud off with excess force? Yes. But am i pulling too tight by leaving about the thickness of tape under? I have had instances before where next day some spots were not adhered along length, i figured it was not enough put on bedding or too much pressure but nothing recent.

My last job i used fibafuse and enjoyed it, seemed much easier to bed than paper.

As for moisture levels, i installed some large windows that i did drywall returns with no casings. While priming, i kept pulling the feathered mud off the pre-existing flat painted drywall. There i assumed either dirty/dusty or taking too much time to layoff the primer (i finish by pulling roller ceiling to floor for consistent stipple). This was in an addition built '89 or about. Mud was either easysand or greentop ap. now i try to apply and layoff as quick as possible, lol.

This is strange, i have seen lots of tape pull away but never pull paint from bare drywall. Seems like the tape gets wet, loosens mud but paint keeps top dry and tape separates from surface leaving a layer of mud with mud and paint still on top.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

BUTCHERMAN said:


> It tells me about you. You like to dismiss the obvious here because you don't want to offend. You can't correct a problem if you can't recognize it. Result: problem continues. The problem wasn't the wipe or mesh. It was lack of setting mud. See those dry spots? There are areas where the tape is shredded and still adhering. This dismisses your theory completely. Where you see the drywall paper are areas that have no setting compound. It could have peeled, but I doubt it. The areas that did adhere shredded the paper. The set mud wasn't thick enough. Taping 101. You can't over wipe drywall tape to where the underneath is completely dry. Sorry, you are wrong. If you want to solve the problem you have to recognize it. You clearly don't. Sorry if it offends you. You are totally wrong and making professionals here look stupid. That don't jive with me. I know better.


Once again I stand corrected....and it won't be the last time!:thumbsup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

thezoo said:


> Sorry guys, but i am confused by what you mean with "wiped too tight".
> I put 1/8-3/16 of mud, embed tape, wipe with 4" pulling majority of mud off. Tape has maybe 1/16 of mud left under it. Can you pull more mud off with excess force? Yes. But am i pulling too tight by leaving about the thickness of tape under? I have had instances before where next day some spots were not adhered along length, i figured it was not enough put on bedding or too much pressure but nothing recent.
> 
> My last job i used fibafuse and enjoyed it, seemed much easier to bed than paper.
> ...


Pushing too much mud out from under the tape, "wiping to tight".


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## SamM (Dec 13, 2009)

Xtrememtnbiker said:


> I think it was screwed farther back than the tape. I don't recall seeing screws.


Look at the picture. Three black spots on the original drywall under where the tape would have been. I assumed that was the screws.


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## Xtrememtnbiker (Jun 9, 2013)

SamM said:


> Look at the picture. Three black spots on the original drywall under where the tape would have been. I assumed that was the screws.



Yes, that was screws on that particular end. Compound is gone.


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## icerock drywall (Aug 16, 2012)

BUTCHERMAN said:


> It tells me about you. You like to dismiss the obvious here because you don't want to offend. You can't correct a problem if you can't recognize it. Result: problem continues. The problem wasn't the wipe or mesh. It was lack of setting mud. See those dry spots? There are areas where the tape is shredded and still adhering. This dismisses your theory completely. Where you see the drywall paper are areas that have no setting compound. It could have peeled, but I doubt it. The areas that did adhere shredded the paper. The set mud wasn't thick enough. Taping 101. You can't over wipe drywall tape to where the underneath is completely dry. Sorry, you are wrong. If you want to solve the problem you have to recognize it. You clearly don't. Sorry if it offends you. You are totally wrong and making professionals here look stupid. That don't jive with me. I know better.


I have pulled tape off and it looks just like the photo...I happen because he did not mix the mud with a whip. working out of the bucket with out mixing it up is what I am going with


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