# How should I be making money off a sub



## Ceezz (Jan 6, 2013)

Hey folks thanks for all the help ahead of time. I just used my first painting sub ever, their work is good , good time too, paper work good. After first I didn't make much but work load was a lot let plus required few big ladders which I still don't have. But now I have at least experienced a tiny bit. We talk a bit and I got a rough idea of what he may charge me for a days work with couple guys. 

Question Am working on quote for painting exterior trim and few doors I would say about 2 days with 2-3 good guys. It's very straight forward house is stone and vinyl siding. 
I have his figure in mind (will add bumper) how should I be making money off of this and other projects I decide to use a sub? I will be there at least a hour or 2 each day, plus am buying material so time there and material mark up. But other then that I wouldn't be actually working on the house. 

Also if things go good and we build some type of relationship any important info, manners, ethical things I should know when dealing with contractor - sub contractor relationships ?


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

You are concerned about making money off a sub for a couple of hours work?????

Tack 5 bills on the job and move on....

or try flipping burgers...

May be more profitable....


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## Ceezz (Jan 6, 2013)

I'll flip burgers if they give them 15 a hour haha. Dang I taught I could make something got it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

There's those times I don't have to make money. But it's great to pass work on to my subs. I consider it an investment.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I usually just add 10 to 20% to my subs price.


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## Ceezz (Jan 6, 2013)

I see, make sense. I gotta find me some painters


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Hey Ceezz,

It is usually all percentage driven. It's your call on what %...:thumbsup:

But for a couple hours work, like Mike said just pass it along....

I used to give subs a pile of work for nothing....

It was always paid back in spades...:thumbup:


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

If there isn't enough room in the budget I just give them my subs info. I usually get a bottle of whiskey during Christmas from them, and sometimes, if there's no point for me to even be on the job, ever. For say a roof. I just send my sub, and sometimes he gives me some money, or returns the favor.


I gave a roofer 8 or 10 roofs last year. I didn't ask for anything, I was honestly too busy to deal with it. This year he gave me 4 bathrooms, a bedroom, dining room, kitchen, 10x20 addition, and I'm getting ready to break ground on a 1200 sqf addition with a 3 car garage. We were supposed to start digging today, but didn't get to if. That is on my roofers house.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

Eventually you get a "price sheet" from your subs. This way they wont have to bid every single job. But until you develop a good working relationship just let them bid away.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Just be careful "padding" subs price. You don't want to price yourself out of jobs.

I understand getting paid for your times, etc. Just adding a thought.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

Before you go hog wild painting vinyl siding make sure the lrv of the new color is the same or lower. If you dont know what Im talking about you better find out


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

my gc's mark me up 10%-40%


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

The GC's ive run into usually go like this, give me a good price and ill have some more for you. 

Hey that estimate, you have to sharpen your pencil, I have a lot of work.

You should lower your price if you want the job

Did you get my message about lowering your price

If you can come down another 500 you have the job,

Hey can you do this while your here for xyz.

No? Your already here and its only like a half a day of work

Cant you pick it up on your way here, I need it cheaper

Im going to find someone else who is easier to work with. You and me are not on the same page.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

JBM said:


> The GC's ive run into usually go like this, give me a good price and ill have some more for you. Hey that estimate, you have to sharpen your pencil, I have a lot of work. You should lower your price if you want the job Did you get my message about lowering your price If you can come down another 500 you have the job, Hey can you do this while your here for xyz. No? Your already here and its only like a half a day of work Cant you pick it up on your way here, I need it cheaper Im going to find someone else who is easier to work with. You and me are not on the same page.



Not all gc's are created equal. 


I've never asked a sub to be cheaper. Except a hand full of times when I've run into problems or tight budgets.


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## jaydee (Mar 20, 2014)

you forgot a least one. 

"I thought those extra's were included in your price."
AND
"I'm barely making any money on this job"
Or
"your making more on this job than me"

:thumbsup::clap::thumbup:


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## Ceezz (Jan 6, 2013)

Metro M & L said:


> Before you go hog wild painting vinyl siding make sure the lrv of the new color is the same or lower. If you dont know what Im talking about you better find out


I have no idea what irv is


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Unbelievable how some GCs operate, I hear chit from my subs all the time. My painter told me the other day a builder (he wouldnt say who because hes not a blabber mouth, good for him) gave his name to a HO because the painter had painted the house when the builder built it. The HO obviously doesnt want the builder involved with a repaint. 

He told the painter to put 300 buck on it for him and give it to him in cash. Lol.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

jaydee said:


> you forgot a least one.
> 
> "I thought those extra's were included in your price."
> AND
> ...





JBM said:


> The GC's ive run into usually go like this, give me a good price and ill have some more for you.
> 
> Hey that estimate, you have to sharpen your pencil, I have a lot of work.
> 
> ...


It Happens !! :laughing:


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Jaws said:


> Unbelievable how some GCs operate, I hear chit from my subs all the time. My painter told me the other day a builder (he wouldnt say who because hes not a blabber mouth, good for him) gave his name to a HO because the painter had painted the house when the builder built it. The HO obviously doesnt want the builder involved with a repaint.
> 
> He told the painter to put 300 buck on it for him and give it to him in cash. Lol.


GC's do that here to.

A trim sub told me that a certain GC doesn that when he refers him to trim a house. Except its $500.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Spencer said:


> GC's do that here to.
> 
> A trim sub told me that a certain GC doesn that when he refers him to trim a house. Except its $500.


Chitty as all get out, imo. Not necessarily to the sub but to the HO.


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## THW (Jun 19, 2013)

I don't think I'm fast enough for this site. I started typing and 5 responses came in ahead of me in the time it took me to respond. Back to just watching, I miss a lot less that way.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

THW said:


> I don't think I'm fast enough for this site. I started typing and 5 responses came in ahead of me in the time it took me to respond. Back to just watching, I miss a lot less that way.


Too funny


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

THW said:


> I don't think I'm fast enough for this site. I started typing and 5 responses came in ahead of me in the time it took me to respond. Back to just watching, I miss a lot less that way.



That's why I try not to have more then 1 paragraph per post


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

THW said:


> I don't think I'm fast enough for this site. I started typing and 5 responses came in ahead of me in the time it took me to respond. Back to just watching, I miss a lot less that way.


It's cool. I like football much more than construction....


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## littlefred811 (Dec 16, 2012)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> For all of you who are thinking that marking up a referral is shady it's possible you aren't doing it right.
> 
> I never just pass along a sub anymore. My experience is that my best subs aren't always fantastic stewards of the clients expectations and or have direct to client customer service fo pas.
> 
> ...


Doc: That's EXACTLY what a good GC does. You're not getting paid for putting the bags on. You are running the show, and a good GC keeps things moving (kind of like bran flakes, but that's another tale.)
GC gets the money to the subs, makes certain product is where/when, etc. 
I tell prospective Contractors (believe it or not, I enjoy working with some Fix and Flippers), "My job is to make you money. In return, you will give me some. The detail is I do it with hardwood floors." Some get it, some get fired.
A couple GC's I have kept are amazing at hand holding, which I do on private jobs. The issue that wrecks things is when I have to hold THEIRS and the end customers.
Enough ranting, I have to go earn some money to spend.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Ceezz said:


> I have no idea what irv is


Light Reflectance Value


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## libbycop (Dec 5, 2011)

its all about being profitable


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## Ceezz (Jan 6, 2013)

Tinstaafl said:


> Light Reflectance Value


Wow thanks


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## Ceezz (Jan 6, 2013)

Thanks guys still learning but sounds like I did the right move for the business. And am super small so every dollar for me counts. $


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Maybe the real question should be "how can I help my sub make us both money"?


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## libbycop (Dec 5, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> Maybe the real question should be "how can I help my sub make us both money"?


Great quote Mike and great thought

I have 2 crews i sub out work to- overflow work

Ive helped both crews get established as they are excellent tradesman but not the best communicators/sales people

I want them to make money- they make money they are happy-its simple

If there is a small job that comes my way or a change order in a job they are doing, most times i just pass it on to them

It works rather well


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

jb4211 said:


> How's that?
> It's my understanding that you would work for me, not the end user. You would give me your price. You wouldn't know what I was charging the end user for the services you provide.
> 
> Or is it, you don't work for GC's, only end users?
> ...


I agree with what your saying and if can do it more power to you. I cant speak for Tom but not all contractors make good subs. I have been on both sides of the game. As a sub roofing & siding about 15 yrs. 

When I worked for GC's it was piece work.SQ ect... easy for them diffficult to make money as a sub. I tackled my projects a certain way and fussed with details. I was and still am a stickler. Im also expensive because of it so in the GC world it would be hard to win bids using the best of the best and applying a mark up. So there were times when I was just brought in by the GC to work with the customer and maybe threw them a a couple of bills for doing it.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

When I GC I also pass along subs when Im not directly involved. Not always, I need a mark up too but there is a time and a place. I dont want my customers finding a new contractor because I couldnt help them. Plus it keeps subs happy. Sometime we put a lot of time in quotes and jobs that dont happen so my subs know I looking out for them too.


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## craiggrimm (Sep 14, 2014)

I agree with Grizz. If you give your subs jobs and dont expect anything in return, it normally pays off big time in the future. If you can provide a sub with steady work they will bend over backwards to get your jobs done on budget and on time. 

That being said I normally tack on my overhead and profit to most jobs that subs do for me. Industry standard seems to be 15 percent, but mine happens to work out to about 27 percent. There are many articles on here on how to figure out your overhead, so I won't waste your time explaining that. Your business is unique and you have to figure out what numbers work for you. On very small jobs I generally double the price without much resistance from customers.


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