# Carpenter in need of Plumbing advice



## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

Hello Plumbers,

I am a Red Seal carpenter and just recently joined this forum but spend most of my time in the carpentry section. If you know what's going on here please send me in the right direction. My plumber and wholesaler seem to be stumped...

I have my own construction company and got hired to do a small bathroom reno. Everything was going great until i got this toilet installed. The first time, it was installed by my plumber and couple days later there was a small pool of water beside it. It seemed like the water was coming from one of the bolts from the tank to the bowl. Easy fix, I returned the tank for a new one. Plumber installed the tank again. But, water seemed to be slowly leaking from the same spot. So this time I exchanged the bowl. Plumber puts the toilet together again! It takes a couple days to notice but sure enough a small pool of water was there again. (The plumber actually put this toilet together 4 or 5 times, as we thought maybe the bolts weren't tight enough) (I also cracked a tank by putting the bolts on too tight, but was still able to have the tank credited to my account...lucky)

So the strange thing is, the leak seems like it is so slow that the next day you might now even notice it because the water only leaked enough to put a ring around the base of the toilet. (Hard to notice if you aren't looking)

I do not know much about plumbing and my plumber has had enough of this toilet. He is a friend on mine so i understand, I also purchased everything and only use him for labour so the problem is mine not his. The toilet is a Toto which i was told was very good, it was like 320$ish with the wholesale discount. I think the bowl is called a drake. I can't figure out how i still have a leak. When i put my finger on the bottom of the bolt (where it goes trough the bowl from the tank) it is a little bit wet after a couple of days (maybe one day). The bolts have rubber washers for the inside of tank. At first i thought it might be the gasket from the tank to the bowl because there is an indentation where the bowl meets the tank where the water could pool if it was leaking and then would slowly leak through the bolt hole where there is no rubber washer. A friend of mine has the same toilet in his house and never had a problem, my plumber has never had a problem either. 

So, I basically went through 2 of the same toilets and still have the same leak. I am gonna go in tomorrow and see if maybe just maybe the bolts are a little loose but i doubt it. Ever heard of this? I think i might have to try a different kind of toilet, but it makes so sense to me why it would be leaking! Also not sure the wholesaler will allow me to return another bowl and tank. (Even the though the box it came in had 4 dead mice in it!!! But that is a whole other story)

Sorry for the lengh of this and i appreciate all advice. I understand the tldr.


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## MAD Renovations (Nov 18, 2007)

Not a plumber... but is the toilet sweating?


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

I'm not a plumber but those toilets are pretty straight forward to put together and install. As long as you "snug" up the tank to bowl bolts you should be fine. I'd be inclined to confirm the wax ring and/or supply line are properly installed. What level is the tiolet flange at? Flush, +1/4, -1/4"?

-$320 for a toto drake? is that in canadian $$?


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

RadRemod said:


> I'm not a plumber but those toilets are pretty straight forward to put together and install. As long as you "snug" up the tank to bowl bolts you should be fine. I'd be inclined to confirm the wax ring and/or supply line are properly installed. What level is the tiolet flange at? Flush, +1/4, -1/4"?


Please tell me you have a plumber do all you remodel work?


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## RadRemod (Oct 29, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Please tell me you have a plumber do all you remodel work?


Of course! I was waiting for a response from an offended plumber!:whistling I know I don't have four years plumbing education/experience under my belt but I was just attempting to help out a fellow remodeler. Were my suggestions way off base? Do you have another suggestion?


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

You answered my question.

Thanks you for abiding by the rules and regulations within The State of Oregon.


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## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

Tattoo said:


> Not a plumber... but is the toilet sweating?


Hey nah the toilet is not sweating.



RadRemod said:


> I'm not a plumber but those toilets are pretty straight forward to put together and install. As long as you "snug" up the tank to bowl bolts you should be fine. I'd be inclined to confirm the wax ring and/or supply line are properly installed. What level is the tiolet flange at? Flush, +1/4, -1/4"?
> 
> -$320 for a toto drake? is that in canadian $$?





Umm ya Canadian... I will double check that though maybe I'm crazy, but that would be for the tank and bowl. Maybe i am off, I can't find the paperwork right now. And yes the wax right is fine and supply line, I can see that it leaks from the bolt. The flange is flush...


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## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

Ron The Plumber said:


> Please tell me you have a plumber do all you remodel work?


Always


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

If the cistern was a pre built straight out of box design then make sure you remove all the internals and reinstall them with sealant. I have had to many of these so called pre built cisterns that have leaked to trust them anymore. like you i had 3 in a row that were the same and ended up pulling it apart and rebuilding. Make sure you get sealant on every part that is submerged with water.


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## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> If the cistern was a pre built straight out of box design then make sure you remove all the internals and reinstall them with sealant. I have had to many of these so called pre built cisterns that have leaked to trust them anymore. like you i had 3 in a row that were the same and ended up pulling it apart and rebuilding. Make sure you get sealant on every part that is submerged with water.


Really. Wow. Ok well I guess I will have to try that. Thanks. That could very well be the problem, I am surprised I didn't hear about it. You run into that problem with all toilets or mainly the Toto?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

What's a cistern got to do with anything?


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## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

neolitic said:


> What's a cistern got to do with anything?


Hmmm.. I think you are right. I envisioned that all the parts could leak through the tank onto the bowl and leak through the bolt. So i just looked at my toilet and realized that doesn't seem possible.


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## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> If the cistern was a pre built straight out of box design then make sure you remove all the internals and reinstall them with sealant. I have had to many of these so called pre built cisterns that have leaked to trust them anymore. like you i had 3 in a row that were the same and ended up pulling it apart and rebuilding. Make sure you get sealant on every part that is submerged with water.


Can you elaborate?

I'm getting confused, I am not familiar with plumbing at all.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

The thing you call a tank has a proper term called a cistern. Take out the fill valve, Flush valve and cistern bolts. Slicone both sides of the fill valve rubber seal and replace, Do the same for flush valve and then do the same for the cistern bolts. I have fitted hunderds of toilets and every one i fit no matter what brand i strip them down and apply sealent to all seals. They are never 100% seal.


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

Wish I could be at the supply house
next time you order a "cistern." :clap:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Funny that. They all seem to know what im talking about without zero problem when i go to the plumber merchants! Only place they didnt was when i went to lowes and the so called toilet idiot expert had never heard of the word cistern. Even though people use both terms and neither is wrong or right. 



"The modern water closet or toilet utilises a cistern to reserve and hold the correct amount of water required to flush the toilet bowl"


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## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

Tattoo said:


> Not a plumber... but is the toilet sweating?


OK maybe my bad here. The tank and the bowl don't look like they are sweating. But i shined a light in between them today and the gasket looks like it is sweating... not leaking though, just sweating? Solution?


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## DFC (Nov 3, 2009)

I have and my plumber have put these toilets on like 5 times now, I think i am just gonna swap it for another brand, prehaps toto just doesn't agree with me.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

neolitic said:


> Wish I could be at the supply house
> next time you order a "cistern." :clap:





BCConstruction said:


> Funny that. They all seem to know what im talking about without zero problem when i go to the plumber merchants! Only place they didnt was when i went to lowes and the so called toilet idiot expert had never heard of the word cistern. Even though people use both terms and neither is wrong or right.
> 
> 
> 
> "The modern water closet or toilet utilises a cistern to reserve and hold the correct amount of water required to flush the toilet bowl"


Let's see if I can ease confusion on people who are confused, If I remember correct, BC is originally from the UK or lived there and would be more accustomed to proper English terminology. Neo on the other hand lives in the heart of the US, spits terbakky, drives a John Deere, and has a can of Bud or two at the end of a hard day.

A cistern holds water. It's a tank, toilet being one of them. Though here in the US, not many would say cistern to describe a toilet tank, even though it's alright to do so. You may get some queer looks though, queer as in UK queer.

If you can picture a ******* saying "cistern" then it's American terminology. If not, it's UK terminology. Not that I'm calling you a ******* Neo, just using you as a fine example.


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## bert0168 (Jan 28, 2008)

This may or may not help you but I had a similar frustrating problem as you describe and here is how I found the problem.

Some background. Did a kitchen/powder room remodel where the customer provided no::no a one piece Kohler no low profile toilet. Every time it was flushed, water would seep out under the base. I installed and removed that POS 5 times thinking it was either the wax, bolts, flange, whatever. Couldn't find the problem.

I took the damn thing outside and set it on a pair of sawhorses and filled it up, put a bucket under it and flushed. Found out the casting had a hole in it internally that would allow it to leak inside a void and water came out one of the casting vent holes. They exchanged it after I told them to go to the supply house, NOT Home Crapo this time and get a new one.

What a PITA, but I think they learned that trying to save a little cost them alot in the end :clap:


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