# Stair Opening



## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

Hey all, I have a customer with a set of stairs leading to the basement that is exposed when the door is closed. Pictures attached. I was asked if there was a better solution than what they have now. I had thought of having a solid platform instead of hinged. They don't want a railing or anything else that would create a barrier.

Any ideas???

Thanks.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

IMO, that looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Seems your liability would be tremendous.


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

griz said:


> IMO, that looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
> 
> Seems your liability would be tremendous.


Just for clarification, I did NOT build that or had anything to do with it. I did some work for them in the kitchen and they asked me about this.


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## nickko (Nov 11, 2012)

frame it out to the floor opening and install the door where it should have been.

nicko


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

That was my first impulse, but typically that would be in a hallway where you don't have room to do that. Tough situation without some major rework of the building structure.


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

nickko said:


> frame it out to the floor opening and install the door where it should have been.
> 
> nicko


I'm just trying to work with what they've got


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> That was my first impulse, but typically that would be in a hallway where you don't have room to do that. Tough situation without some major rework of the building structure.


It's actually her tv room. I could build it out like Nikko suggested and put a wall of bookcases to fill in the far side of the opening. Whether they have the funds for that is another question.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Well, to be blunt about it, that's not your problem. I get it; I'd be looking for a cheaper solution too--but sometimes there just isn't one. I can't come up with anything better.


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Well, to be blunt about it, that's not your problem. I get it; I'd be looking for a cheaper solution too--but sometimes there just isn't one. I can't come up with anything better.


100%


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

Do you have any backstory on how the decisions were made to get these stairs and code violation to this condition?

it seems odd that the original set of stairs would be built in such a manner as to extend into the hallway above, originally.

What’s downstairs? What is the elevation change from that floor to the basement floor? Can you demo the stairs and redo them starting at the closed door?

Will you be getting a permit and inspection to ensure that this doesn’t cause problems when they go to sell the house in the future?


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

wallmaxx said:


> Do you have any backstory on how the decisions were made to get these stairs and code violation to this condition?
> 
> it seems odd that the original set of stairs would be built in such a manner as to extend into the hallway above, originally.
> 
> ...


From what I see, it's a converted garage. it's not a hallway. I don't know when the work was done or how long it's been this way. It's a full basement where the homeowner's son is living right now. I have no idea what the homeowner wants to do in the future. I'm just trying to work with what they have without getting too deep into it. Unless the homeowner is okay with spending the money to do it properly.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Handrail on one side us required, and get rid of the door. 

Sometimes you have to keep them like that to get furnaces, etc in and out.


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

hdavis said:


> Handrail on one side us required, and get rid of the door.
> 
> Sometimes you have to keep them like that to get furnaces, etc in and out.


I installed a grab bar on the door jamb so the homeowner can grab onto. The railing is on the right in the stairwell.


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## Robie (Feb 25, 2005)

Totally off topic...
That picture reminded me of a situation in Philadelphia when I lived there.
My fiance and I went to a Halloween party in someone's home. They had a curtain up on a rod in the doorway at the basement stairs.
10 minutes after we left the party, a girl, not even thinking about it, leaned back into the curtain and fell to her death down the stairs.

Whatever you and the homeowner decide...make it safe.

Carry on.


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

Robie said:


> Totally off topic...
> That picture reminded me of a situation in Philadelphia when I lived there.
> My fiance and I went to a Halloween party in someone's home. They had a curtain up on a rod in the doorway at the basement stairs.
> 10 minutes after we left the party, a girl, not even thinking about it, leaned back into the curtain and fell to her death down the stairs.
> ...


We have a door at the top of our stairs to the basement. My wife's mother stayed with us one night, got up to pee, and opened the wrong door. Down she went breaking bones. She ended up in the hospital and ended up dying there. This lady did fall down the stairs last year and broke her collar bone. That's why I'd like to get this fixed. To prevent a repeat.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

BTW, a grab bar doesn't really meet code, it's pretty specific. As a professional, you presumably know what meets code, and is therefore safe. Not meeting code could be considered negligence.

If you have to have a door, just put it at the bottom of the stairs


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## Mike4D5 (Jul 22, 2010)

hdavis said:


> BTW, a grab bar doesn't really meet code, it's pretty specific. As a professional, you presumably know what meets code, and is therefore safe. Not meeting code could be considered negligence.
> 
> If you have to have a door, just put it at the bottom of the stairs


You're correct about the grab bar not meeting code but it's something for the short term until the issue is fully resolved.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Options:

1-Remove the door.

2-Finish framing out the opening and hang the door where it belongs.

3-Rebuild the stairs with a shorter run, if that can be done to code.

4-Decline the work.


That’s all I got 👍


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I guess some dry kindling to support a throw rug is not the answer.


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## wallmaxx (Jun 18, 2007)

soooo……..

permit?
Building inspection?
done professionally?
collect sales tax?

or not?

if the person’s budget doesn’t support doing legitimate business, why put yourself in that type of risk. It just makes you become the hack they will refer to their other poor or tight fisted friends.

A great reputation can elevate you to better paying projects.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I sure as **** ain't going to do the work and leave them a note saying the place may blow up. 


Mike.
*___*


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## Emberglo (Jun 30, 2015)

Calidecks said:


> I'm not responsible for anything I don't touch. If they don't grant me authorization to make everything I touch safe then I don't take the job. A good experienced contractor knows when to walk.
> 
> What about that don't you understand?
> 
> ...


Oh, I understand perfectly. I've walked plenty of times. Not on a job check though. Not when I've been asked to look at something and it is unsafe.

If someone requests a quote, did ya touch it? Did you go out and take a look-see?

What do YOU not understand that my posts are trying to help with liability issues based upon MY experiences, not yours?

Does it hurt so much to tag something, take a picture and walk away?


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## Emberglo (Jun 30, 2015)

Calidecks said:


> I sure as **** ain't going to do the work and leave them a note saying the place may blow up.
> 
> 
> Mike.
> *___*


So, now you are starting to get the red tag idea... 

Not authorized to do the work? A red tag isn't a love letter to the homeowner.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

90% of the decks I bid are safety hazards. It's why they called me to bid. 

Hell no I'm not responsible for it under any circumstances. 


Mike.
*___*


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## Emberglo (Jun 30, 2015)

Calidecks said:


> 90% of the decks I bid are safety hazards. It's why they called me to bid.
> 
> Hell no I'm not responsible for it under any circumstances.
> 
> ...


How do the folks you bid for know it is a safety hazard?


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

They aren't stupid?


Mike.
*___*


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Once you "red tag" put up caution tape or take any action you *THEN* (by default) have taken responsibility for the safety of the deck and everything you've "tagged". 

No thanks.


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