# glue and screw drywall



## TNTRenovate

BrandConst said:


> Lazy? Your clueless to say the least! :laughing: Bring yourself down here for a bit and see if you can make a living gluing and screwing. I worked in the drywall business for 7 years and I'm purty darn sure I've seen alot more drywall stuck to the wall than you and it hasnt been glued.


Clueless...I don't think so. But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and think what you want.

If I were down there, I would find a way to make a living gluing and screwing, or I wouldn't do it. It's just a matter of knowing how to sell it. If you are not sold yourself on the benefit, then you will never be able to sell it to your clients.

When it gets down to it, it's not the gluing and screwing that's the problem, it's the low wage illegal workers that drive the cost down to where guys are willing to sacrifice quality to stay in business.


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## Big Shoe

Nobody glues drywall here.....nada........never.......glue.........what's that...........:blink:


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## Ancient Rocker

I have been using glue for 41 years and discovered the only people who don't glue just don't know any better. Common sense eludes way too many "professional" hangers.


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## BrandConst

TNTSERVICES said:


> Clueless...I don't think so. But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and think what you want.
> 
> If I were down there, I would find a way to make a living gluing and screwing, or I wouldn't do it. It's just a matter of knowing how to sell it. If you are not sold yourself on the benefit, then you will never be able to sell it to your clients.
> 
> When it gets down to it, it's not the gluing and screwing that's the problem, it's the low wage illegal workers that drive the cost down to where guys are willing to sacrifice quality to stay in business.



You don't know how things work down here just like I don't know how things work up there so it's a little out of line to say something is lazy. I'm fairly sure if a hurricane blew into Obamaville, IL there would be nothing left.


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## TNTRenovate

BrandConst said:


> You don't know how things work down here just like I don't know how things work up there so it's a little out of line to say something is lazy. I'm fairly sure if a hurricane blew into Obamaville, IL there would be nothing left.


Funny you say that, I grew up in the Dallas area. All my family lives in around or near Dallas/Ft. Worth. We had to replace my grandparents ceiling because it was falling down from cracks and nail pops. Never would have happened if it were glued and screwed.

I have not seen a house that we owned or any family or friend that didn't have pops all over the ceiling and walls. It's just what you get when you don't do it right.

But what does Hurricanes that have to do with gluing drywall? One has nothing to do with the other. You were saying that you couldn't be competitive using glue, not that it was weather related. That's not apples to apples, more of a strawman argument. Put it up so that you can knock it down.

I know that it is the right thing to do. It is not that much more cost, and the benefit is well worth the expense. But I guess if all one is worried about is getting in and out, then that way of thinking works.

And I wish they required more structural reinforcement here. I know that we experience more tornadoes than you do hurricanes.


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## Morning Wood

What do u glue the drywall with? You gluing it to strapping or right to studs and joists? Is it a pain to pull drywall that has been glued or do u use a glue that comes off easily like silicone or something? What about blueboard? U guys glue blueboard that is getting base coated and skim coated?


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## TNTRenovate

Morning Wood said:


> What do u glue the drywall with? You gluing it to strapping or right to studs and joists? Is it a pain to pull drywall that has been glued or do u use a glue that comes off easily like silicone or something? What about blueboard? U guys glue blueboard that is getting base coated and skim coated?


1) Liquid Nails, or PL
2) Whatever you are fastening to
3) Yes, but when anything is built right it shouldn't be easy to take apart
4) Blueboard is a mold/midlew resistant product, never used it, but Holmes loves the stuff.


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## BrandConst

TNTSERVICES said:


> Funny you say that, I grew up in the Dallas area. All my family lives in around or near Dallas/Ft. Worth. We had to replace my grandparents ceiling because it was falling down from cracks and nail pops. Never would have happened if it were glued and screwed.
> 
> I have not seen a house that we owned or any family or friend that didn't have pops all over the ceiling and walls. It's just what you get when you don't do it right.
> 
> But what does Hurricanes that have to do with gluing drywall? One has nothing to do with the other. You were saying that you couldn't be competitive using glue, not that it was weather related. That's not apples to apples, more of a strawman argument. Put it up so that you can knock it down.
> 
> I know that it is the right thing to do. It is not that much more cost, and the benefit is well worth the expense. But I guess if all one is worried about is getting in and out, then that way of thinking works.
> 
> And I wish they required more structural reinforcement here. I know that we experience more tornadoes than you do hurricanes.


What hurricanes have to do is your implication of lowering quality. it's baseless and probably something expected of you and the arrogance you exhibit.

I use to be a PM for the 3rd largest restoration company in the U.S. and have yet to see drywall glued when ripping it out after water damage or fire damage and I've been all over the country doing it.

I'm not saying people don't do it but I can tell you right now it's not a standard application at all. Which is why I go back to the point I made earlier....don't accuse people of being lazy because they don't do it like you or it seems useless to do to them.

Have you ever had to pull damaged sheetrock off of a stud that it was glued to?


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## Ancient Rocker

The Naperville boys are correct. When hanging drywall the intent is to fasten it as well as possible so it is a pain in the ass to remove. It is called quality.


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## BrandConst

Ancient Rocker said:


> The Naperville boys are correct. When hanging drywall the intent is to fasten it as well as possible so it is a pain in the ass to remove. It is called quality.


:no: maybe in illinois


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## Ancient Rocker

BrandConst said:


> :no: maybe in illinois


In Texas it is better to be able to take off drywall than be fastened correctly? Wow, is that awful.


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## BrandConst

Ancient Rocker said:


> In Texas it is better to be able to take off drywall than be fastened correctly? Wow, is that awful.


I built my house 11 years ago and to this day it hasnt one nail pop and I live 5 miles from galveston bay. The standard around here is nailing the perimeter and screwing the field. If you read my posts before I'm not attacking anyones way of installing rock, my two points are:

-it's not the standard application nor is it required by any manufacturer so don't call someone lazy for not doing it.

-second, have you ever had to tear off rock that was glued?


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## TNTRenovate

BrandConst said:


> What hurricanes have to do is your implication of lowering quality. it's baseless and probably something expected of you and the arrogance you exhibit.
> 
> I use to be a PM for the 3rd largest restoration company in the U.S. and have yet to see drywall glued when ripping it out after water damage or fire damage and I've been all over the country doing it.
> 
> I'm not saying people don't do it but I can tell you right now it's not a standard application at all. Which is why I go back to the point I made earlier....don't accuse people of being lazy because they don't do it like you or it seems useless to do to them.
> 
> Have you ever had to pull damaged sheetrock off of a stud that it was glued to?


What you see as arrogance, I see as confidence. :thumbsup:

Hurricane straps and glue serve a purpose. Hurricane strapping is a method used to secure structures during hurricanes. As you sarcastically pointed out, we don't suffer from hurricanes. While I agree standards should be higher in Tornado alley, it just not the same analogy, and here's why. All homes suffer from different expansion and contraction rates from different materials. Gravity is the same in Texas as it is in Illinois. The purpose of gluing drywall is universal and benefits all drywall jobs.

I still think it lazy not to glue the drywall. You have not presented any other real argument against the use.

1) I can not be competitive in the market. (Just because we don't know a way to do something, doesn't mean that a way does not exist. That's close minded thinking that will leave you in the back of the line looking at those that are moving forward.)

2) You see it as useless. (The word useless means, "with out use". The use is simple and elementary. It prevents cracking, nail pops, and ads strength to the structure.

3) It is not a standard practice. (If you are waiting for things to be standard practice, I guess minimum code is good enough as well?)

It's unfortunate that you would consider the removal of something when installing it. That is backwards and definitely lazy thinking. All you do is remove the drywall and scrape off the glue. I install things to last and not be easily removed. I hope you don't do tile.


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## Tinstaafl

Peace on Earth, good will to men... men. :whistling.

If someone has drywall hanging procedures that make it a _sufficiently_ strong and durable job, omitting extra steps that make it "overbuilt" is not laziness. It's just good practical and business sense.

One of the biggest challenges we face in our search for excellence is learning to recognize when things do and don't matter. :thumbsup:


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## Tech Dawg

Cmon guys... Its Christmas day, don't argue :laughing:


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## TNTRenovate

I just guess I wouldn't consider fixing a common problem "over built". Seriously, what does it cost in extra time and material? Maybe a buck a sheet in glue, and all of about 15 seconds. Now that seems like good and practical business sense!


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## Rio

Merry Christmas but ixnay on the need for gluing drywall in addition to screwing it. If it's screwed correctly I don't see the need to be gluing it also; now for putting down floor sheathing, yeah, construction adhesive and screwnails are the ticket to a stiff diaphragm.....


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## country_huck

TNTSERVICES said:


> Seriously, what does it cost in extra time and material? Maybe a buck a sheet in glue, and all of about 15 seconds. Now that seems like good and practical business sense!


I mean thats pennies comparied to coming back and fixing nail pops and cracking.


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## sevonty

I am not trying to attack anyone only try to understand what I do not as those who do not glue are pros and the brst way to learn is from other pros. 
That being said,The purpose of glueing floor is to prevent squekes and nail pops also adding to structure stregth. if it is a ceiling on a 2 story house wher there is floor above would the board hung below not be subjected to the same stress and issues of deflection as the floor above? If the ceiling is to a attic space does the non climate controled attic still not change tempeture and humitity almost at the same rate as the outside, causeing the trusses/ ceiling joist to expand and contract? Over time would these forces not have an effect on the statinary nail/screws in a ever moving joist/truss? 
would glue not defend against these forces longer then nothing?


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## JesseCocozza

I guess it really depends on where your working and what kind of engineering is required on the structure. Around here, no one relies on drywall to act as your diaphragm. I know it acts as one when screwed to your ceiling joists / trusses / rafters, but all those framing members are strapped, blocked, braced and inspected before drywall goes up. I would say gluing is a great extra step if all you're doing is nailing it, but I would venture to say the the vast majority screws their rock here. As for the expansion and contraction bit, I can't help to picture what happens to vinyl siding when you set the nail tight rather than leaving it proud for movement. Wouldn't the glue inhibit movement and cause cracking if you're bonding two materials that are subjected to movement?


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## TNTRenovate

JesseCocozza said:


> I guess it really depends on where your working and what kind of engineering is required on the structure. Around here, no one relies on drywall to act as your diaphragm. I know it acts as one when screwed to your ceiling joists / trusses / rafters, but all those framing members are strapped, blocked, braced and inspected before drywall goes up. I would say gluing is a great extra step if all you're doing is nailing it, but I would venture to say the the vast majority screws their rock here. As for the expansion and contraction bit, I can't help to picture what happens to vinyl siding when you set the nail tight rather than leaving it proud for movement. Wouldn't the glue inhibit movement and cause cracking if you're bonding two materials that are subjected to movement?


Vinyl siding is the one doing the expansion and contraction. The drywall is pushed in and out, thus creating nail and screw pops. Ceilings are the topic, but I would glue all drywall. You will never have an issue if you glue.


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## griz

On the West Coast I have never seen drywall glued unless spec'd or high end residential. Screw/nail pops have never been an issue...


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## JesseCocozza

I understand that. However drywall is subject to expansion and contraction just like the wood that you're attaching it to is. I'm just asking if there might still be cracking. The nail pops in my opinion is a simple enough fix... Eliminate the nail and use a screw instead. I agree that the glue might be an added step to ensure a secure install but whether it is nessecary or not is the question? This mentality of "what can I do to make something better?" is commendable but it doesn't mean that someone is receiving a sub par product if the rock is not glued. There are other factors involved including the quality of the finishing, so it's hard to conclude that the glue is solving all the problems.


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## skillman

Its like why even put rebar in concrete. That suff dont move. 


If you have never seen a screw pop you are blind or havent been in trade to long.


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## clancrawford55

I have never seen it glued on in Ny either unless it is an overlay or for acoustics. 
If it catches on in this area i will be a nightmatre doing remodels as everything that is built anymore will be rebuilt again & again. I think this is why M. Holmes screws all of his framing.


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## Mike-

clancrawford55 said:


> I have never seen it glued on in Ny either unless it is an overlay or for acoustics.
> If it catches on in this area i will be a nightmatre doing remodels as everything that is built anymore will be rebuilt again & again. I think this is why M. Holmes screws all of his framing.


I was told by a good source that he screws everything because even he makes mistakes and that changes do take place and they are easier to take care of this way. Lol.


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## JesseCocozza

skillman said:


> Its like why even put rebar in concrete. That suff dont move.
> 
> If you have never seen a screw pop you are blind or havent been in trade to long.


Ok forgive me on the screw pop bit, obviously we've all seen them. However I've seen less screw pops than I've seen nail pops. I'm not saying that gluing is bad. I'm saying that it's not the end-all-be-all. It's not common practice here. We've all seen the pops and cracks. We've also all seen perfectly fine walls and ceilings that weren't glued. I'm suggesting that there are more variables in the equation to make a statement like " if you glue it, you won't have any problems."


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## griz

skillman said:


> Its like why even put rebar in concrete. That suff dont move.
> 
> 
> If you have never seen a screw pop you are blind or havent been in trade to long.


I'll bet I've been in business longer than you are old.

Never said I haven't seen one, Eye Doc just gave me 20/20, just never been an issue.


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## skillman

There could always be problems with glue or material from factory defects. Doesnt mean you dont do the extra step to make a superior product.


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## Tinstaafl

TNTSERVICES said:


> The drywall is pushed in and out, thus creating nail and screw pops.


Who or what is pushing it in and out?

Are you familiar with the theory that many nail pops are caused by shrinkage of new-construction framing? I find the concept quite persuasive, and to be honest, don't recall experiencing pops to any extent when re-hanging on existing "aged" framing.


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## glkirk

Here on the coast of Virginia, we always "tack" with smooth cement coated drywall nails. Then go back and screw off.
Granted, sometimes I wondered about the lack of screws on walls, but maybe thats why I didn't have much problems with pops.
I built over 50 homes, used mumerous crews, watched hundreds more homes being built and never once did I ever see, on plans or in practice, glue being used.
Not to say that it can't be used. You can can overbuild lots of entities and hope the appraiser gives you credit for it and hope you can afford to sit on that house because it won't sell because it is overpriced. Something to think about when your whole world revolves around the sale of that house.
On another note, an old timer once told me; not to "over build" things, as they may have to be dismantled at some point. He was 70 and he and his family had been building (Framing) homes their entire life.
5/8'-If you are going to use it on walls, be sure the windows (that were ordered and set long before) have the right jams. And order your interior doors accordingly.
Here, we use allot of one coat plaster and "Blueboard". 
Two coat plaster was used on wood lath and 2'x4' drywall with no tape.
The blueboard has no different qualities except a blue coating is applied to help the plaster stick.
The plaster we use is "blocked in" and let set, 1/2 hr. (covering the mesh tape), then applied with a trowel at about 3/16", feathered at doors and windows and "sponged" to an attractive swirl pattern. Kitchens and baths get smooth.
This costs about the same as "Drywall" and 200 board homes can easily be plastered in one day. Some people prefer this finish for its harder surface.


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## skillman

Has nothin to do with how long someone has been in business just doing something that will give you a quality installation that stands the test of time. No matter what trade.


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## JesseCocozza

skillman said:


> There could always be problems with glue or material from factory defects. Doesnt mine you dont do the extra step to make a superior product.


It's not an inferior product if it's not glued, it's just the way some of you prefer to do it.

Like I said before. It's not common practice here, so one could assume that cracks and pops are also not as common. Therefore, if you see structure that might subject drywall to cracking or popping, wouldn't the "superior" task be augmenting the structure to resist movement? That might be too time consuming or costly, so we'll just glue the drywall. Problem solved. That's how I view it. It's a band aid or duct tape to mask a bigger problem. Is that problem your's? Not unless you framed it. So point those things out to the GC or homeowner and deal with it on an as needed basis. Don't tell everyone else that they're lazy hacks if they're not dealing with the same circumstances.


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## griz

skillman said:


> There could always be problems with glue or material from factory defects. Doesnt mean you dont do the extra step to make a superior product.





skillman said:


> Has nothin to do with how long someone has been in business just doing something that will give you a quality installation that stands the test of time. No matter what trade.



Glue does not make a quality drywall job. If you can't make it come out right without glue hire a pro...

I'll bet our lumber out here has the same moisture content as yours...

And if we are talking metal framing....:laughing::laughing::laughing:

You'd be in business about 2 weeks out here. And do not even start to preach that superior quality crap...

If you can get away with that & convince people that glue makes your drywall job superior....you are wasting your time in the trades...

I bet there are a bunch of Eskimo's that need AC units....:laughing:


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## Tech Dawg

If glue is not needed for a ceiling etc... Then why is it spec'd for a "high end" residential build?


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## griz

Tech Dawg said:


> If glue is not needed for a ceiling etc... Then why is it spec'd for a "high end" residential build?


Not always. The spec I have seen, is how I have stated previously.
5/8" board over 5/8" plywood, both glued & screwed & the plywood edge blocked. This is for a large expanse of that dam no texture smooth finish. I just do not like that look.


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## skillman

( Griz )



Wasnt just talkin about drywall with glue and material. Talkin general about any trade has differnt methods of products.



:laughing::laughing::laughing: Metal my bread and butter.


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## Tech Dawg

I think a lot of the confusion is due to building codes in different states, municipalities etc... Some places, your ceilings are required to be glued... Roughly in a 20x20 basement, your talking under 30 bux in liquid nails or loctite to glue a ceiling up. I just always looked at it as extra insurance :shrug:


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## griz

Aw heck, it's all good.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I've just been around little kids all day, fueled by candy, & have been enjoying copious amounts of Christmas cheer. Day started at 5AM & I didn't have a nap today.

Best wishes to all you guys this New Year....:thumbsup::thumbup:


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## skillman

:thumbsup: Last minutes of merry xmas to all.


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## skillman

Mike holmes says you cant go wrong with ever over building.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## griz

TBFGhost said:


> I am going to want to shoot every present day contractor in 20 years when I am trying to reno a house and they thought it would be a good idea to PL Premium everything..... Everything and anything a human will ever build will always need service, and to produce an object in a fashion that only makes service harder or impossible is frustrating and more expensive in both the initial costs and future service costs.


This is why remodeling can get so expensive...:whistling:laughing:

One never knows what or how the previous guy did it...:laughing:


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## JesseCocozza

SSC said:


> The only time i have ever glued drywall was to stiffen up a kneewall both framed in metal or wood.
> 
> Maybe we should start gluing the doorknobs to the door, the hinges to the jamb or the wall angle to the wall.
> 
> I have to go glue the fan to the ceiling :laughing:


This made my day... Thanks! Now if you let me get back to work, I just have to finish glueing my washer machine to the floor so it doesn't rock back and forth anymore. It helps dampen the sound as it won't rock into the dryer anymore.


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## Tech Dawg

JesseCocozza said:


> This made my day... Thanks! Now if you let me get back to work, I just have to finish glueing my washer machine to the floor so it doesn't rock back and forth anymore. It helps dampen the sound as it won't rock into the dryer anymore.


That was even funnier :laughing::lol:


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## skillman

Be careful you my give to many people ideas about there movein machines.:laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Big Shoe

Joe, SSC is right. When I build and hang free standing wall/ knee walls I glue the bottom of the board(paper edge)to the concrete slab and bottom plate.

Try it next time. once that glue sets up that baby ain't gonna rock:thumbsup:


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## Big Shoe

I live in a house built in 1977. All wood framing ,all screws, no glue. 

I've pretty much redone this 4,000 sq ft house end to end and never saw one issue with the drywall.

Except why did that poor bastard use 2'' metal screws to hang 1/2'' drywall to the ceiling :blink::blink:


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## Tom Struble

TBFGhost said:


> I am going to want to shoot every present day contractor in 20 years when I am trying to reno a house and they thought it would be a good idea to PL Premium everything..... Everything and anything a human will ever build will always need service, and to produce an object in a fashion that only makes service harder or impossible is frustrating and more expensive in both the initial costs and future service costs.


your going to love using your HF laser guided gutster bar:thumbup:


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## TBFGhost

Tom Struble said:


> your going to love using your HF laser guided gutster bar:thumbup:


Regrettably I have not purchased one yet. I will have to stick with my Bostitch 24 and 36" bars.


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## Tom Struble

well...you still have 20 years to pick one up:sad:


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## bob_cntrctr

Tinstaafl said:


> You put the glue on the studs & joists. :whistling


Resurrecting an old thread - 'cause this makes zero sense to me.

How the heck do you glue drywall to studs through the vapour barrier?


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## VanGoghFinish

bob_cntrctr said:


> Resurrecting an old thread - 'cause this makes zero sense to me.
> 
> How the heck do you glue drywall to studs through the vapour barrier?


This would be one of of the very few time we do not screw and glue our jobs. The other one would be when I uneducated insulator staples the  paper to the face of the framing like a retard! I cant believe the amount of debate of this subject. Here on the east coast you guys would never get a job for any reputable building company if you didnt plan on at the very least gluing and nailing perimeters and screwing the fields. Although my company has went to all and screws and glue about 10 years ago which is by far the Cadillac method of installing a quality rock job. And for the guys who say that there jobs or homes they live in that have been nailed dont have a "single pop" your not looking hard enough they are there! maybe you dont care to see them.


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## TNTRenovate

VanGoghFinish said:


> This would be one of of the very few time we do not screw and glue our jobs. The other one would be when I uneducated insulator staples the  paper to the face of the framing like a retard! I cant believe the amount of debate of this subject. Here on the east coast you guys would never get a job for any reputable building company if you didnt plan on at the very least gluing and nailing perimeters and screwing the fields. Although my company has went to all and screws and glue about 10 years ago which is by far the Cadillac method of installing a quality rock job. And for the guys who say that there jobs or homes they live in that have been nailed dont have a "single pop" your not looking hard enough they are there! maybe you dont care to see them.


The proper way to install paper faced insulation is to staple it to the face of the stud. The paper is the vapor barrier. Stapling it to the inside of the studs does several things: 1) creates air channels 2) compresses the insulation at the edges and 3) diminishes it's fire rating.

I guess you meant an uneducated installer, as an educated installer would know the reasons for proper installation and how to educate uninformed GC's and Reputable builders.


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## WarnerConstInc.

I just use contact cement, screws are too spendy.


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## Tinstaafl

TNTSERVICES said:


> The proper way to install paper faced insulation is to staple it to the face of the stud.


I just took a cruise around the Owens-Corning site, and all of the examples I saw showed the paper being stapled to the sides of the studs. Not that I don't think face-stapling isn't more effective, can you provide a link to a manufacturer's recommendation for doing so?


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## Inner10

You can still buy paper back insulation? Wow haven't seen that stuff in eons.


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## TNTRenovate

Tinstaafl said:


> I just took a cruise around the Owens-Corning site, and all of the examples I saw showed the paper being stapled to the sides of the studs. Not that I don't think face-stapling isn't more effective, can you provide a link to a manufacturer's recommendation for doing so?


They also show the 2x4's touching the cinder block wall of a "basement"...don't think I would take much stock in the accuracy of the installation methods of the photos, but I will find some data.


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## TNTRenovate

Here's is what I found. Both ways are approved by Owens Corning. The benefit of side stapling is to the drywaller, but will obviously reduce the VB properties of the facing. And common sense tells us that the insulation will be compressed some what along the edges, thus reducing the R value in those areas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ9u_02lDE&feature=channel&list=UL

Go to about 1:30...


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## Tinstaafl

TNTSERVICES said:


> The benefit of side stapling is to the drywaller, but will obviously reduce the VB properties of the facing.


One thing that bears mentioning is that kraft paper is classed as a vapor _retarder_, not a _barrier_. In that sense, fastening over the stud faces is far from paramount.

Where it makes the most difference is when you think in terms of air barriers, which are much more important. But a typical properly done drywall job provides an excellent air barrier. After re-thinking and re-researching this subject for the umpteenth-thousand time, I'm prepared to say that face-fastening under those conditions is completely unnecessary overkill, and accomplishes little other than to make hanging the drywall difficult.

Good article and subsequent discussion from Martin Holladay here:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/vapor-retarders-and-vapor-barriers


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## Inner10

> Where it makes the most difference is when you think in terms of air barriers, which are much more important. But a typical properly done drywall job provides an excellent air barrier. After re-thinking and re-researching this subject for the umpteenth-thousand time, I'm prepared to say that face-fastening under those conditions is completely unnecessary overkill, and accomplishes little other than to make hanging the drywall difficult.


I like how at 3:00 the video explains to insulate around a pipe...here we always insulate behind the pipe if it has to run on an ext wall and put the vapor barrier behind the pipe. 

Still doesn't nailing on the inside compress the edges and leave an unwanted air space all around the edge?

...The existence of paper back insulation still confuses me. :laughing:


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## Tinstaafl

Inner10 said:


> I like how at 3:00 the video explains to insulate around a pipe...here we always insulate behind the pipe if it has to run on an ext wall and put the vapor barrier behind the pipe.
> 
> Still doesn't nailing on the inside compress the edges and leave an unwanted air space all around the edge?


If you insulate only behind the pipe, you will have a considerably lower R factor in that stud cavity. Interesting that you would put the VB behind--that leaves potential for condensation on a cold-water line with no way to dry to the outside.

As for the unwanted air space, technically you're correct. But I think you'd have a hard time measuring the difference in performance, or demonstrating a meaningful increase in the likelihood of mold or rot.


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## Inner10

Tinstaafl said:


> If you insulate only behind the pipe, you will have a considerably lower R factor in that stud cavity. Interesting that you would put the VB behind--that leaves potential for condensation on a cold-water line with no way to dry to the outside.
> 
> As for the unwanted air space, technically you're correct. But I think you'd have a hard time measuring the difference in performance, or demonstrating a meaningful increase in the likelihood of mold or rot.


I don't insulate anything...I just know what I see, and in the rare occasion I see pipes in an outside wall they VB behind them.


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## Paulie

Inner10 said:


> You can still buy paper back insulation? Wow haven't seen that stuff in eons.


We aren't allowed to use any faced batt insulation in basements anymore up here.

Always taught to staple to the sides of the studs.

Glue and screw rock.


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