# Need some ideas to try.



## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

tjbnwi said:


> Sounds like a neutral problem.
> 
> OP, do you own a voltmeter?
> 
> ...


I get that, at the same time electronic is often compared to as water/electromagnetic force. I don't know but sometimes water is off on a hose but the first pull of trigger relieves some pressure. I know it's different just made a wonder.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Red Adobe said:


> Is the ceiling fixture enclosed? Heat buildup is a problem with some fixtures and will thermal an Led.
> 
> What do the bulbs do in say a lamp? could be a bad batch
> 
> ...





The bulbs work fine in other fixture. The light is surface mount.Do not own a meter. Have been busy and have not got around to picking up a pig tail. No poor ground through conduit,is metallic sheathed cable,some call it BX.


Thank you for input,will keep everyone posted when I pick up pig tail.


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## going_commando (Feb 19, 2013)

Do you own a meter of any kind? My guess is bad neutral. BX is garbage by the way, and should be replaced whenever possible/practical.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

going_commando said:


> Do you own a meter of any kind? My guess is bad neutral. BX is garbage by the way, and should be replaced whenever possible/practical.


The voltage measured at the panel on each side of the neutral should be equal. 
121v on one side and 119v on the other side means 1v is being lost in the neutral and it is a problem.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

GettingBy said:


> 121v on one side and 119v on the other side means 1v is being lost in the neutral and it is a problem.


Nope. Well within tolerance.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> Nope. Well within tolerance.


Nope.
But I don't doubt that you believe it is.

With bad neutrals, the issue is not whether PoCo gives you 240v(center tapped) + 10% or 240v -10%, the issue is how close does the voltage on one side of the neutral match that on the other side of the neutral.
I'd think a 1v difference is excessive and I've heard of 20v differences.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

going_commando said:


> Do you own a meter of any kind? My guess is bad neutral. BX is garbage by the way, and should be replaced whenever possible/practical.


Why?

Seems like we're making this overly complicated. Check voltage at fixture. Replace fixture if voltage looks fine.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

aptpupil said:


> Why?
> 
> Seems like we're making this overly complicated. Check voltage at fixture. Replace fixture if voltage looks fine.


Not exactly.

If you have a connection upstream that gives you five ohms worth of corrosion, a light fixture pulling only one amp will never give you symptoms but this connection will still be heating up five watts worth.

You'll only notice a problem if you try some appliance that pulls 10A or 15A.


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## Michael217 (Apr 23, 2011)

You have a high resistance (bad/degraded) connection. This connection is allowing a small amount of voltage to pass and the LEDs light because they require little current. The incandescents require much more voltage and that is why they don't light. The reason the LEDs light and then go out is because the small voltage at the high resistance connection collapses by either some small movement or the heat these types of connections create. 

Here is how to find the bad connection. Start at the fixture. With a voltage meter with a low impedance capability, check phase (black) to ground. If you get 120 volts nominal then from the breaker to this point you are good. Then check phase to common, if you don't get 120 volt nominal then that part of the circuit is where your bad connect is at.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Finally,finally,finally got to the bottom of the problem and got it resolved. After being totally exasperated with the one light not working and the busy season on us,I gave up on the light.


However,yesterday morning more than half the shop was without power,could not live with that. After spending an hr. or so,gave up and called local power company,guy shows up with bucket truck,cuts out and replaces connectors coming off power pole. Everything works fine now. He said he spotted the bad connector once in the air,and change all three while he was there.:clap::clap:


Thank you to all who had responded. Just thought this thread needed some closure.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

i was just goin to say that's what it was..


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

fjn said:


> cuts out and replaces connectors coming off power pole. Everything works fine now. He said he spotted the bad connector once in the air,and change all three while he was there.:clap::clap:


In that case I don't see why your whole shop didn't act like the bulb you posted about. Maybe the connection integrity depended on the wind blowing which varied the tension on the connection, outside temp, all kinds of things. And it being outside you would not have smelled or heard anything.


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

GettingBy said:


> In that case I don't see why your whole shop didn't act like the bulb you posted about. Maybe the connection integrity depended on the wind blowing which varied the tension on the connection, outside temp, all kinds of things. And it being outside you would not have smelled or heard anything.


Because sometimes things don't always work out like they do on paper. Everything works on paper.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I had a bad connection going into the house. The cinch bolt had rusted and was causing all sorts of seemingly unrelated issues. Circuits cutting out for no reason, breakers tripping, lights working, then not working then working again and no breakers tripping.

I thought my electrician was nuts. 5 minute fix and things work better than ever.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

rrk said:


> Because sometimes things don't always work out like they do on paper. Everything works on paper.


"O, ye of little faith". :laughing:

What he saw should be reducible to an equivalent circuit (on paper). In this case it was most likely an intermittently high resistance instead of the micro-ohms of contact resistance the connection should have had.

If it can't be explained he should hire an exorcist. . .:blink:


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

rrk said:


> Because sometimes things don't always work out like they do on paper. Everything works on paper.




Boy,does this explanation ring a bell. After the power guy got things working correctly,I asked him what gives,why was it first one light,then half the shop ? He said "you know all the stuff you read in electric books,it is all true,however,he said they left one important thing out.Sometimes it does what it wants". With him having 23 yrs. on a line crew,I certainly would not doubt his word. Somewhat scary though.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

"Sometimes it does what it wants" is a great line and I've used it myself. But in reality, it simply means that you've missed one or more of the variables necessary to apply the theory properly. There are times it just doesn't make economic sense to do completely linear troubleshooting--that's when you skip a few steps, just make it work, and use that line.


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