# quotes and bids



## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

whats the difference?
or i am very much confused, or many here use the wrong terminology 

for how I was taught:
when a potential client calls me to fix his leaky roof, I quote him a price.

when a potential client has a architect with a job proposal detailing every single work to be done, and in which manner how said work will be done,
and which materials and or companies will be used to do said work:
i bid that specific job.

when a company goes to see a, lets say, kitchen renovation,
said company quotes a price for what they think is needed to be done.

its not called a bid.
or is it?


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I never provide "bids". I only provide quotes.

To me a bid is your best price to buy or sell something that is either tangible or EXACTLY the same regardless of who does it. (Which is why this term is used in auctions)

A quote on the other hand is a price to perform a service that may differ greatly from one provider to the next in terms of quality of work, quality of service, or other non-measurable items.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

as i figured,
so on quotes, their is nothing no way to control what the contractor puts in his quote
that is, 2 different contractors for the same job are probably light yrs in difference next to how they see the job.

when a contractor see's a client, and makes an offer, do you's provide different solutions?
as in, 3 different quotes for the same job varying qualities of materials, workmanship, decor, etc..?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

You bid a project with your quote, that's how I see it.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

brunothedog said:


> as i figured,
> so on quotes, their is nothing no way to control what the contractor puts in his quote
> that is, 2 different contractors for the same job are probably light yrs in difference next to how they see the job.
> 
> ...


In a residential setting, absolutely. There is absolutely no way that any 2 typical contractors will come in with exactly the same ideas either.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

rarely do we do quote work, other than small side jobs.
all our jobs are bids, you wanna work, you bid to work, I never say to clients when i lose a bid that because the crew that won it does crappy work and is not trustworthy, very unprofessional, in all senses.

as you should know, all companies that are allowed to bid have the exact same details as the competition, which makes it kinda hard to get plumbers raking in 300 an hour. 

commercial, or residencial, 90% of the time the jobs you win by bidding.
their are exceptions, but you won't get far asking high dollar.
seems like the clients are a lot smarter here.
right or wrong, its keeps everything honest and in prespective


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

You can also submit a proposal with a quote attached. That separates the apples from the oranges in residential work. 

A quote is the money part of either a bid or a proposal


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## Bearded Wonder (Jan 21, 2011)

I provide estimates and quotes. 

Estimates are based on average pricing for what the client is wanting and provides them a general idea of cost. They can be done very quickly. 

Quotes are a firm price for a specific scope of work, with all materials and finishes specified. These take a little more time to get exact labor and material costs for that job.

Bids are submitted when you are competing against other contractors to see who can do a project for the lowest price. I avoid those like the plague.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

brunothedog said:


> rarely do we do quote work, other than small side jobs.
> all our jobs are bids, you wanna work, you bid to work, I never say to clients when i lose a bid that because the crew that won it does crappy work and is not trustworthy, very unprofessional, in all senses.
> 
> as you should know, all companies that are allowed to bid have the exact same details as the competition, which makes it kinda hard to get plumbers raking in 300 an hour.
> ...




I thought you were asking what our personal definitions were of bid vs quote.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

rselectric1 said:


> I thought you were asking what our personal definitions were of bid vs quote.


i was, i think.
or i new and get confused read some peoples threads.
and i wasn't sure what is meant when i read about someone who quotes a job if the other quotes from different builders were on the same design or not


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

ClaytonR said:


> I provide estimates and quotes.
> 
> Estimates are based on average pricing for what the client is wanting and provides them a general idea of cost. They can be done very quickly.
> 
> ...


It's not always the lowest price that gets the job. Sometimes a company gets (quotes from) 3 companies to "bid" a job, but they only want 1 to do it. They use the other 2 to satisfy a requirement or just to make sure that their regular guy is still in the realm of reasonability.

With a bid, the project is finalised...there are specs and drawings and various requirements that anyone who does the job must meet. With a proposal each company has their own view of the final outcome and the customer gets to choose the one they want for whatever reason they want. Both a bid and a proposal have a quote attached to them....it's the money part. A bid will only have the money part because Archies and Engineers have already done the proposal...essentially


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Clayton in post #8 above laid it out perfectly in my opinion.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/quotes-bids-142391/#post1900073


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

dom-mas said:


> It's not always the lowest price that gets the job. Sometimes a company gets (quotes from) 3 companies to "bid" a job, but they only want 1 to do it. They use the other 2 to satisfy a requirement or just to make sure that their regular guy is still in the realm of reasonability.
> 
> With a bid, the project is finalised...there are specs and drawings and various requirements that anyone who does the job must meet. With a proposal each company has their own view of the final outcome and the customer gets to choose the one they want for whatever reason they want. Both a bid and a proposal have a quote attached to them....it's the money part. A bid will only have the money part because Archies and Engineers have already done the proposal...essentially


your first para is everywhere, where they ask for a bid/quote only to check the honesty of the one they are gonna hire.


the rule for the second para is usually they ask 5 bids, toss out the highest, and the lowest, then go from there.

there are exception, only once here have i seen the client go with the highest bidder, they figured they work was better, the company that made the bid had a shot load of work and doubled their price.

There is no way( other than working for other GC's) to not do bids.

then there is the dishonest way things are normally done,
That the Achiìs and GC's become somewhat partners under the table for certain jobs.
where the proposals are flimsy and don't reflect the actual works to be done.
and ends up costing the client 4 times the bidding price,
those people i avoid like the plague.

most of my works comes from picking up the pieces after these Companies get done raping the client from everything.

ya gotta love the construction business


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I bid the job, and give them a qoute written on a proposal. Before the contract agreement. How's that? :laughing:


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## Bearded Wonder (Jan 21, 2011)

dom-mas said:


> It's not always the lowest price that gets the job. Sometimes a company gets (quotes from) 3 companies to "bid" a job, but they only want 1 to do it. They use the other 2 to satisfy a requirement or just to make sure that their regular guy is still in the realm of reasonability. With a bid, the project is finalised...there are specs and drawings and various requirements that anyone who does the job must meet. With a proposal each company has their own view of the final outcome and the customer gets to choose the one they want for whatever reason they want. Both a bid and a proposal have a quote attached to them....it's the money part. A bid will only have the money part because Archies and Engineers have already done the proposal...essentially


That's true. Sometimes my quote is a bid as well, if the owner is getting prices from other contractors. Can't help that when it happens, but I try to avoid it. 

Sometimes I know that sometimes I don't, but I sell the value of what I can do, not a low price, in either case. I'm pretty much never the lowest price, and when I am, I slap my forehead and ask myself where I went horribly wrong.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

I hope nobody is giving the lowest price they can do something for. I hope everyone is doing it for the price they "need" to do it for. Maybe the price is low becasue your hungry, maybe it's high because your too busy...whatever. I give a price based on my needs, and not what someone elses pricing


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Semantics...


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

For me a bid is when you are an invited party to price out a job. You and several other companies will bid the project.

Usually a quote is for when you are invited as a single party to price a job.

Both could be considered quotes.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Inner10 said:


> Semantics...


That's what the OP was asking for...or am I wrong? I hate the term "bid" because it's never apples to apples in residential remodeling. 4 plans=4 different quotes.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

A bid is any proposal I submit that is fixed price. I very clearly lay out what will be done, what will not be done and what products will be used.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> That's what the OP was asking for...or am I wrong? I hate the term "bid" because it's never apples to apples in residential remodeling. 4 plans=4 different quotes.


Yep. But thats life. I want to play the game, but I didn't write the rules :no:

Win some and lose some.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

That sounds more like a contract.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Leo G said:


> That sounds more like a contract.


For me, a bid is a scope of work, sometimes a selections packet and a contract.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Jaws said:


> Yep. But thats life. I want to play the game, but I didn't write the rules :no:
> 
> Win some and lose some.


Then it truly is a matter of semantics. I can't claim geographic differences since the term bid, quote, and estimate seem to mean different things to different contractors regardless of area.

I think this is a good thread and what I perceive as correct is above via several posts.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> Then it truly is a matter of semantics. I can't claim geographic differences since the term bid, quote, and estimate seem to mean different things to different contractors regardless of area.
> 
> I think this is a good thread and what I perceive as correct is above via several posts.


To be clear, I was just saying that you are correct about the fact that 4 bids will bid 4 different things, for many different reasons. 

I will deal with that BS to play the game, is what I was saying. :thumbsup:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Bid and quote might be similar, but estimate is different. A bid or a quote is a single number while an estimate is a range of numbers.

Yes? No?


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Estimate is an educated estimation of the cost of a project.

For me, thats usually an email with bullet points sent after initial visits, to give a good ball park of the projects costs. Dont want to waste any more of my time than necessary. 

An official estimate would be for a cost plus project. It is what I believe the project will cost. It would include a scope of work and a contract.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

ClaytonR said:


> Bids are submitted when you are competing against other contractors to see who can do a project for the lowest price. I avoid those like the plague.


The key to being able to do an accurate and competitive "bid" is that the plans and specs are complete and their is no ambiguity as to what is to be provided and installed, and there is an "execution" clause in the specs clearly describing installation requirements for each item. "means and methods" is the only thing left up to the contractors, and theoretically the guy who can figure out how to perform the described work most efficiently, while meeting OSHA safety requirements is the guy who will win the "bid"


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Leo G said:


> Bid and quote might be similar, but estimate is different. A bid or a quote is a single number while an estimate is a range of numbers. Yes? No?


I think this is correct. An estimate means give or take, whatever, maybe 10% I also believe there are laws in my state that regulate this. As a matter of fact I'm sure there are.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

mudpad said:


> The key to being able to do an accurate and competitive "bid" is that the plans and specs are complete and their is no ambiguity as to what is to be provided and installed, and there is an "execution" clause in the specs clearly describing installation requirements for each item. "means and methods" is the only thing left up to the contractors, and theoretically the guy who can figure out how to perform the described work most efficiently, while meeting OSHA safety requirements is the guy who will win the "bid"


That would be in a perfect world and what we as generals look for. But the throat slicing can interfere with that.


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## ASInsulation (Aug 25, 2010)

To me, I don't get too hung up on the language. Lets keep it simple.

1. Estimate- Look at the job and give my approximate costs. Ballpark, within a few hundred up or down(depending on the size of the job).

2. Proposal- Written version of my verbal estimate with concrete costs.

3. Contract- Agree to the proposal, I write up our contract.

A bid, to me, is something like when you work for the state WAP agency's, where you hand in your numbers and await public opening and either lose the bid or get awarded the work on the spot.

And a quote, I don't know. Maybe the ballpark number I may throw out on the phone, which pretty much never happens.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I picked up the word bid from my father, because that was what he always called it when I was growing up. I've always assumed the HO is getting more then one price so I came to give them my bid. This is often the case when I've never worked for a client before. Ones I've worked for before don't typically put the project up for bid. However my father would always submit his bid to developers. When I say developers I mean 300 or 400 homes.


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## ASInsulation (Aug 25, 2010)

Perfect example. I'd say bid pertains to a large volume of work at a consistent price


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## Stephen H (Feb 18, 2011)

what I do is :

prospective customer calls with a problem.

we discuss the problem on the phone-------------at which time I am "Qualifying" the prospective customer.

If I am interested in pursuing the opportunity further- I arrange to meet with the prospect and discuss the situation in person.

At that "in person "meeting I will diagnose the problem ( typically keeping that info to myself at that stage)-----and then right then and there I write a "PROPOSAL"-which is basically a scope of work in some detail with a firm price attached.

I am absolutely NOT interested in a situation where the customer can EVER make a direct "apples to apples comparison"--- for 2 reasons

A) a large part of what we are actually selling is our expertise in diagnosing the situation. If I write a proposal based on someone elses diagnoses ----- ultimately one day I may be held to account to warranty a repair based on some one elses diagnosis and work methods.

I stand behind MY methods- not someone elses. I write my proposal to HIGHLIGHT why MY way is superior.

B)- in a direct apples to apples comparison, really the only logical deciding factor is going to be $$$. why would I want to be involved in that?-even if I Get the job ?

In the initial conversation with the prospect- if they begin talking about "getting bids" I am,at that point rapidly disqualifying them-subject to some clarification.

I really want them coming to me---subconsciously with their hat in hand---asking for my guidance.

- If they start talking about gathering bids- it may signal a fundemental lack of respect and a situation where they are just looking for someone to throw numbers around----and they are going to base their decision based on the bottom line.

In my opinion-and as I said earlier- based on some clarification.

My situation is different than most of yours, I suspect.
In over 25 years I think I have seen actual drawings TWICE( Once for a church being built which we shingled-and once for a carriage house being built which we slated.

Stephen


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Bid - Someone hands you and other contractors a detailed list of the project they want completed. This list says all material (brands and so fourth) they want used, time frame and so on. You then submit your price based off that list as well as the other contractors.

Quote - someone calls for a project not knowing what they need so you "quote" them a price when you figure out what you need to do. Everyone will have different numbers because everyone will have different thoughts for materials and different ways to complete the project. To me, a quote and estimate are interchangeable. You quote around 5k, you estimate around 5k.

Proposal - you write up a detailed summary of the work you are going to do, with the materials listed and an accurate price unless you run into unforeseen items. This document is presented to the homeowner instead of verbally said like a quote or estimate. This proposal document gets signed and/or initialed.

Contract - goes with the proposal. It lists all the terms and conditions of what is to be expected from both parties during the course of the project. You can write in anything you want but be aware, it may not hold up in court. It's best to pay a lawyer to look it over for you or even draft one up.

At least that's my take on it all.


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

brunothedog said:


> rarely do we do quote work, other than small side jobs.
> all our jobs are bids, you wanna work, you bid to work, I never say to clients when i lose a bid that because the crew that won it does crappy work and is not trustworthy, very unprofessional, in all senses.
> 
> as you should know, all companies that are allowed to bid have the exact same details as the competition, which makes it kinda hard to get plumbers raking in 300 an hour.
> ...


Generally, on large projects, price is probably 5th or 6th on the list of importance. You'll get plenty far asking high dollar if you have a track record of performance. Best value is often what serious customer are looking for, not lowest bid.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Here's one for you guys. I worked for a guy who would "quote" jobs. His definition of quote was "I'm giving you a quote of $10k to do this job, if it goes over $10k I'll eat it, if its under you get money back." He is no longer in business. For some odd reason he always had a ton of work but never made any money.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

EricBrancard said:


> Generally, on large projects, price is probably 5th or 6th on the list of importance. You'll get plenty far asking high dollar if you have a track record of performance. Best value is often what serious customer are looking for, not lowest bid.


I couldn't agree more. 

But you'll never see those kind of customers if you're a low baller. And by low baller I mean the type that say "Just show me the other bids you got and I'll beat them", "I'll beat any price you have", "Let's get drunk and we'll skip out on the GC and I'll do it direct with you."


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> But you'll never see those kind of customers if you're a low baller. And by low baller I mean the type that say "Just show me the other bids you got and I'll beat them", "I'll beat any price you have", "Let's get drunk and we'll skip out on the GC and I'll do it direct with you."


you got your head so far up your az....
wait
I resemble that remark

to read your above statement tells me you have zero professionality and zero experience.

i hope to god i can bid, slash propose, slash offer, against you so i can bid 5g's profit a day and only to be higher than you, solely for the purpose to call you a hack, lowballer, one of no scrupples, etc.. etc.. etc....

reading some of theses posts shows your one and only god....$


wtf happened to this business
im not sure if i want to meet any of you anymore
maybee for a kiss:innocent::blush:


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Spencer said:


> Here's one for you guys. I worked for a guy who would "quote" jobs. His definition of quote was "I'm giving you a quote of $10k to do this job, if it goes over $10k I'll eat it, if its under you get money back." He is no longer in business. For some odd reason he always had a ton of work but never made any money.


Can't image for the life of me why he went out of business. :whistling


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

dom-mas said:


> When did drinking become so socially unaccebtable in your eyes? who said anything about getting stupid? Most people can get quite intoxicated and still be sensible. Bruno and the other guy drank a bottle together as friends...the business part of it was over. I've had drinks after work with clients, I've also become friends with clients and had drinks with them after the project is finished...unprofessional? In your opinion, not in mine or my clients...and these clients are successful people, not dirtbag drunks. If the people that you know get stupid when they have a few, then fine...that\s your experience but don't paint everyone with the same brush


Of course when everyone's drunk no one looks stupid... It's amazing how dumb most (if not all) people get when they get drunk, next time be sober and you'll actually see it.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

I was quite the drunk about 16 years ago. Now I can't stand a drunk.


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## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> Of course when everyone's drunk no one looks stupid... It's amazing how dumb most (if not all) people get when they get drunk, next time be sober and you'll actually see it.


If everyone is mutually drunk and they don't remember it afterwards, what's the problem? :laughing:


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

this merits it own thread


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## maninthesea (Nov 11, 2008)

along the lines of the original question- 

I have always wondered what the difference between RFQ and RFP?

Regarding drinking with customers, yeah I do it but mostly when I am out of town. Sometimes I feel like a rock star when I am on a trip to one of the islands, I have to argue its my shout or pull a fast one in order to pick up the dinner tab.

Cheers Jim


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

RobertCDF said:


> No I haven't done that. I grew out of acting like a teenager a LONG time ago. I can have a couple of drinks and call it quits, there is no need to get stupid EVER much less in a business capacity.


Maybe your clients don't like you enough to give you the opportunity.:whistling


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> Maybe your clients don't like you enough to give you the opportunity.:whistling


Most of them are grown ups too.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

RobertCDF said:


> Most of them are grown ups too.


Grown ups drink too....it's not just for children anymore, I had a client in his 80's buy me dinner and he said "I'm paying for your cab so you can tie one on".


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

That's crazy, I could never imagine drinking with a customer. First reason is that I maybe have 3-5 drinks a year and second reason is I don't look to have those types of relationships with customers.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> That's crazy, I could never imagine drinking with a customer. First reason is that I maybe have 3-5 drinks a year and second reason is I don't look to have those types of relationships with customers.


Bingo, you probably meet with the client a couple times, put a roof on and never hear back. Robert probably builds a deck for a couple weeks and that's the end of the road.

In residential work I'm the last trade on the jobsite, I spend days with the family customizing the system to their needs and I make multiple return trips to make adjustments. Then I service the system until it goes in the trash. Any client I have I get to know them and their family really well.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> Bingo, you probably meet with the client a couple times, put a roof on and never hear back. Robert probably builds a deck for a couple weeks and that's the end of the road.
> 
> In residential work I'm the last trade on the jobsite, I spend days with the family customizing the system to their needs and I make multiple return trips to make adjustments. Then I service the system until it goes in the trash. Any client I have I get to know them and their family really well.


I guess some people don't read well... 
I don't have a problem having a drink with a client (and I've done it often) getting drunk is what frat kids do, it has no place in your business. 

As I said before next time go sober and you'll be amazed how stupid drunk (and sometimes just buzzed) people get, when you're just as drunk you don't think it's stupid because you're doing the same thing.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

He is just better then everyone, duh.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

RobertCDF said:


> I guess some people don't read well...
> I don't have a problem having a drink with a client (and I've done it often) getting drunk is what frat kids do, it has no place in your business.
> 
> As I said before next time go sober and you'll be amazed how stupid drunk (and sometimes just buzzed) people get, when you're just as drunk you don't think it's stupid because you're doing the same thing.


When did Bruno say he got drunk with anyone. He said he finished a bottle and woke up with a headache. I know lots of folks who don't drink and they don't avoid people who are drinkers, they don't comment about how everyone was acting stupid, unless someone was acting stupid. 

If that's how you and your friends act when you drink more than just a couple then maybe you shouldn't drink more than a few. i was never a frat boy...I don't drink or act like a frat boy...ever. I do get intoxicated sometimes, but I don't get falling down drunk or run my mouth drunk or acting like a fool drunk...ask anyone who has been sober around me, there's lots. 

Your experience, not everyones.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

dom-mas said:


> When did Bruno say he got drunk with anyone. He said he finished a bottle and woke up with a headache. I know lots of folks who don't drink and they don't avoid people who are drinkers, they don't comment about how everyone was acting stupid, unless someone was acting stupid.
> 
> If that's how you and your friends act when you drink more than just a couple then maybe you shouldn't drink more than a few. i was never a frat boy...I don't drink or act like a frat boy...ever. I do get intoxicated sometimes, but I don't get falling down drunk or run my mouth drunk or acting like a fool drunk...ask anyone who has been sober around me, there's lots.
> 
> Your experience, not everyones.


Go read his drinking thread, passed out on the lawn sounds pretty drunk to me. Not really the image to convey to neighbors out walking the dog in the morning "honey, who is that sleeping in the smith's yard?" "Oh that's the contractor" Yea that looks professional.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

dom-mas said:


> When did Bruno say he got drunk with anyone. He said he finished a bottle and woke up with a headache. I know lots of folks who don't drink and they don't avoid people who are drinkers, they don't comment about how everyone was acting stupid, unless someone was acting stupid.
> 
> If that's how you and your friends act when you drink more than just a couple then maybe you shouldn't drink more than a few. i was never a frat boy...I don't drink or act like a frat boy...ever. I do get intoxicated sometimes, but I don't get falling down drunk or run my mouth drunk or acting like a fool drunk...ask anyone who has been sober around me, there's lots.
> 
> Your experience, not everyones.


The only issue I have is the following "It is NOT professional to get drunk when it's business related". I don't give 2 craps about how drunk you get with your buddies, but when it's someone you are doing business with and representing an industry that already struggles with it's image then you need to draw the line at a couple of drinks. 

Being passed out on a customers lawn is not professional.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> Being passed out on a customers lawn is not professional.


waking up and spitting out grass sucks.
his wife threw a bucket of water on us.

I didn't tell you about the time a client took me fishing on his boat with ho's
and i don't mean homeowners


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Gee Rob you must be really fun at parties...


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

brunothedog said:


> waking up and spitting out grass sucks.
> his wife threw a bucket of water on us.
> 
> I didn't tell you about the time a client took me fishing on his boat with ho's
> and i don't mean homeowners


Life of a stone mason: hookers and booze.

Life of a deck builder: bitter sobriety.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

this will probably get closed, so
back in the early '80's a black guy working for us hit the lottery, 50k if i remember well.
so on the job he's asked," Bubba(His name), whatcha gonna do with all that money,"
he replies" I's gunna invest in houses and lots" "whore houses and lots of whiskey.
3 months later my dad and me went to the police station in downtown Detroit to bail his ass out jail, and bring him back on the job


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

You guys can do whatever you want, you can be as drunk as you want whenever you want. I don't give 2 craps how drunk you are at any time. BUT when it's with clients you ARE NOT acting in a professional manner period. 

Never said I didn't drink, never said I hadn't been plastered, never said any of what you're implying. HOWEVER I've never been plastered around clients.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> Grown ups drink too....it's not just for children anymore, I had a client in his 80's buy me dinner and he said "I'm paying for your cab so you can tie one on".


That don't work because I'm not planning on leaving my vehicle anywhere I'm not.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Leo G said:


> That don't work because I'm not planning on leaving my vehicle anywhere I'm not.


Can't trust the truck at home with your wife?


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

If I'm getting drunk at home I don't think I'll need a cab to get me home....


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

You take a cab there and back Leo...


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

I don't want to leave my truck there in the first place. And why would I want to take a cab from my house to my house.

Now that's really drunk.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Why is it so hard to understand that someone might think that getting DRUNK with a client is unprofessional. I'll bet 99% of successful professionals in this country don't do this. Are they all wrong, and you young no it alls are right?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

Californiadecks said:


> Why is it so hard to understand that someone might think that getting DRUNK with a client is unprofessional. I'll bet 99% of successful professionals in this country don't do this. Are they all wrong, and you young no it alls are right?


I'll bet the opposite. I'm not talking falling down drunk, but 5 or 6 martinis or scotchs at lunch maybe split a few pitchers to seal the deal...I bet that happens in many many successful Fortune 500 businesses. I know I've overheard people making deals at pubs at lunch, and they aren't dressed anything like me and the numbers they're talking are 10x my yearly gross


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

RobertCDF said:


> Go read his drinking thread, passed out on the lawn sounds pretty drunk to me. .


I did forget about that part


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

last night the Bank i did the masonry work for had their christmas party for all the contractors and subs that worked there.
At the end it came to a contest who could down more shots(something like Indiana Jones flick).
Their was the President of the bank, The CEO, The Vice Presidents wife, The GC, Me, and an Electrician at the table. 4 bottles of 903 grappa were polished off and half way through a bottle of Crown Royal, I bailed.
I really don't know how it always ends up at that point, but this time it was the CEO that started bad mouthing how Us Builders can't hold our liquor.:drink::laughing:
I get thrown it the mix because Im American.
Next thing you know....

And, I don't have a drinking problem, I drink, get drunk, and fall down, no problem


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## BamBamm5144 (Jul 12, 2008)

Sounds like a lot of alcoholics on that side of the ocean.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

dom-mas said:


> I'll bet the opposite. I'm not talking falling down drunk, but 5 or 6 martinis or scotchs at lunch maybe split a few pitchers to seal the deal...I bet that happens in many many successful Fortune 500 businesses. I know I've overheard people making deals at pubs at lunch, and they aren't dressed anything like me and the numbers they're talking are 10x my yearly gross


That is fall down drunk for me. 2 Whiskeys and I'm good.


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

The only point I'm trying to make is that alcohol can be a part of business, there's even right off's for food and drink. It has been for literally millenia. I don't get falling down drunk myself, but i have had more than "just a few" with clients before. I don't see it as being unprofessional, I see it as building client realtionships. 

Different people view alcohol very differently, neither is right or wrong. It's legal and it's social or it can be. Some people think that one drink is bad, others think that one drink is bad if it isn't followed by another. Winston Churchill won a war and ran a pretty successful country and was probably legally drunk 75% of the time (and we all know that countries are essentially huge businesses). Business is a philosophy or an art, not really a science or there would be hard and fast rules about it, we all know there aren't...business is different everywhere...especially on different continents


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

BamBamm5144 said:


> Sounds like a lot of alcoholics on that side of the ocean.


Nope just a lot of pussies this side of the ocean. :laughing:


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> last night the Bank i did the masonry work for had their christmas party for all the contractors and subs that worked there.
> At the end it came to a contest who could down more shots(something like Indiana Jones flick).
> Their was the President of the bank, The CEO, The Vice Presidents wife, The GC, Me, and an Electrician at the table. 4 bottles of 903 grappa were polished off and half way through a bottle of Crown Royal, I bailed.
> I really don't know how it always ends up at that point, but this time it was the CEO that started bad mouthing how Us Builders can't hold our liquor.:drink::laughing:
> ...


And the ones who got drunk were not acting in a professional manner. Just because others do it does not make it right. 

Every day there are a bunch of people that drive drunk, so there you go, it's ok now since a bunch of others do it. No need to get a taxi anymore.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

the party was down the street from me, i walked there, and crawled/stumbled/flew home.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> And the ones who got drunk were not acting in a professional manner. Just because others do it does not make it right.
> 
> Every day there are a bunch of people that drive drunk, so there you go, it's ok now since a bunch of others do it. No need to get a taxi anymore.


If its not ok with you, don't drink, I have clients to that don't drink, but i don't preach to them.
All this "professionalism crap" don't mean crap.
If your jobs are not up to par.

Its legal so get off of it. 

It has been always in the together of contract signing.


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

Man, talk about a thread hijack :laughing:

I get drunk with clients all the time.

Oh wait, no I don't. I can't imagine that ever happening anytime soon.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Ive had a couple drinks at mixers/events/weddings I was invited to by clients. Never gotten a buzz, though. 

I dont like to loose control over my wits or the ability to make good decisions in public. If I have a beer when we are eating out, its one, generally iced tea at that. Except when im dove hunting on the border. The cantina is right next to the hotel, and I generally have quite a bit of libations. 

I dont speak as clearly when I have had 3 beers, I slur my words. So I certainly dont want that in a public setting. Especially a wedding or Christmas party where I am a guest. HBA mixers I generally drink 2 beers over 2 hours or so. 

Backyard bbq is more my speed. 

But to each his own. Everyone is different, their relationships with their clients are different. If it doesn't bother you or your client, thats your business. 

I am a lot younger than most of my clients, so we aren't likely to become drinking buddies.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Have A drink with a client, absolutely. Might be insulting to refuse. Get drunk with them. Absolutely not.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

It has some to do with your client, it also has to do with other potential clients, either the ones that see you passed out on the lawn, other guests at the party that see you drunk, or even coworkers of party attenders retelling the story "the smith's contractor was so hammered he passed out on the lawn". When I hear stuff like that my reaction as a homeowner and a contractor is "I won't be using that guy for anything".

The thing is we never know who is watching and what their position is.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> It has some to do with your client, it also has to do with other potential clients, either the ones that see you passed out on the lawn, other guests at the party that see you drunk, or even coworkers of party attenders retelling the story "the smith's contractor was so hammered he passed out on the lawn". When I hear stuff like that my reaction as a homeowner and a contractor is "I won't be using that guy for anything".
> 
> The thing is we never know who is watching and what their position is.


i dont understand, you must be young, or a prohibitionist.
I could give a bent nail"who is watching"
I've done my time
I work because most clients have heard of MY WORK.
Not on how i have a good time, 
I respect all, 
relax (better, no?)


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> i dont understand, you must be young, or a prohibitionist.
> I could give a rats ass about "who is watching"
> I've done my time
> I work because most clients have heard of MY WORK.
> ...


32, not exactly young, I'll be making a drink for myself here shortly. 
You could be the best in the world and you ain't touching my house if you're passed out in the neighbors lawn, it's just not professional.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

RobertCDF said:


> 32, not exactly young, I'll be making a drink for myself here shortly.
> You could be the best in the world and you ain't touching my house if you're passed out in the neighbors lawn, it's just not professional.


I had you pegged as older. :thumbsup:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

For what it's worth, it would not surprise me in the least if my lawn guy/ irrigation contractor passed out in someone's yard.:laughing:


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Jaws said:


> For what it's worth, it would not surprise me in the least if my lawn guy/ irrigation contractor passed out in someone's yard.:laughing:


He looks passed out when he's working


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> He looks passed out when he's working


You talking about Duich or his guy Nacho? :laughing:


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

Since this got "a little" off topic,
I was quoted a bid once to get out of jail, 
I lost that work and had to stay in.
My dad beat the (stuffing) out of me with those hands of a stone mason


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Jaws said:


> I had you pegged as older. :thumbsup:


I get that a lot, till they see me in person... then it's the opposite. Although now that I'm 20% gray hair it hasn't happened as much.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Same here with the grey


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> 32, not exactly young, I'll be making a drink for myself here shortly.


32 huh, dont be so quick to jude us older folks.
3 yrs before you were born is when i started shovelling sand into a mixer.
We learned different the job,
I'm not saying its right, but, it is what it is



> You could be the best in the world and you ain't touching my house if you're passed out in the neighbors lawn, it's just not professional.


my reply would be I'd would rather have an old fart working on my house than a neo contractor. something to do with experience


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> 32 huh, dont be so quick to jude us older folks.
> 3 yrs before you were born is when i started shovelling sand into a mixer.
> We learned different the job,
> I'm not saying its right, but, it is what it is


That's what's funny about it, usually the older is the mature one... clearly not in this case


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

brunothedog said:


> my reply would be I'd would rather have an old fart working on my house than a neo contractor. something to do with experience


My reply is "I want a professional working on my home"


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

RobertCDF said:


> That's what's funny about it, usually the older is the mature one... clearly not in this case


well, I'm not good at delivering it side ways.
And straight up seems to offend

What did you contribute to this thread?
other than your biased views?


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Enough, guys. Play some Christmas music or something.


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## brunothedog (Sep 8, 2013)

Tinstaafl said:


> Enough, guys. Play some Christmas music or something.


All in good fun before the harsh bitter world of construction, tommorow


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

Jaws said:


> You talking about Duich or his guy Nacho? :laughing:


Duich, but I really think he's just tired from all his chatting:laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

TxElectrician said:


> Duich, but I really think he's just tired from all his chatting:laughing:


That dude is a character. He has a lot of knowledge, and he seems like a good dude, but I still give Brandon Jordan most of my work. I cant imagine Duich talking to some of my clients. No telling what he will say. One time he told a lady her whole system was an abortion


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

It seems that this thread has run its course, for both subjects. Let's just call it quits before someone gets their eye poked out.


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