# Excess recessed lights on same circuit



## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Clients just moved into a house where breaker for kitchen lighting trips occasionally. Looks like too many recessed lights (6") on the same circuit, around ten or more, using 65 watt bulbs. The circuit also feeds some wall outlets in the adjacent dining room.

Unscrewing half of the lamps (bulbs) has stopped the problem for now.

Do you think either of these might be worth trying:
1) replace all bulbs with 45 watt bulbs
2) replace all bulbs with dimmable LEDs.

Thanks much.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

How do you know it's not an intermittent short? Most likely it is an overload but never just assume. Did you get a current reading on the circuit?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

realelectrician said:


> How do you know it's not an intermittent short? Most likely it is an overload but never just assume. Did you get a current reading on the circuit?


I just assumed, as did my electrician buddy when he saw all the lights. I'll be more thorough next time I'm there.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

10 * 65W = 650W = 5.42 Amps, well within the capacity of a 15A breaker. What's plugged into the outlets?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> 10 * 65W = 650W = 5.42 Amps, well within the capacity of a 15A breaker. What's plugged into the outlets?


It's more than 10 lights + chandelier in adjacent room, but I forget the total. I should have gotten/remembered the specifics before I posted. My bad. Stay tuned.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Before anything else, I'd take a recording ampmeter to the circuit and determine exactly what amperage is being drawn.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Is the breaker an AFCI?


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

Since its in the kitchen are they running a microwave, toaster, toaster oven, etc on the same breaker as all those lights? 15a breaker or 20? Is it the only room tied on that breaker? Older home? Clean looking electric job or has it been tinkered with in the past? Lots of variables to check out to get to the root of the problem. 10+ 6" cans with 65w bulbs in a kitchen must have that light up like a runway.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Jdub2083 said:


> Since its in the kitchen are they running a microwave, toaster, toaster oven, etc on the same breaker as all those lights? 15a breaker or 20? Is it the only room tied on that breaker? Older home? Clean looking electric job or has it been tinkered with in the past? Lots of variables to check out to get to the root of the problem. 10+ 6" cans with 65w bulbs in a kitchen must have that light up like a runway.


If the kitchen counter receptacles turn out to be on the same circuit as the lights...YES somebody has been "tinkering":laughing:


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## Jdub2083 (Dec 18, 2011)

rselectric1 said:


> If the kitchen counter receptacles turn out to be on the same circuit as the lights...YES somebody has been "tinkering":laughing:


Touche. :laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

rselectric1 said:


> If the kitchen counter receptacles turn out to be on the same circuit as the lights...YES somebody has been "tinkering":laughing:


Not necessarily. If someone merely added the cans to the existing light circuit, the circuit that was installed before the SABCs were required.......


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

IMO when the lights were wired in makes no difference. Obviously as others have mentioned you need to check the load on the circuit. Removing the bulbs only removed part of the load on the most obvious devices of the circuit. Turn the breaker off and see what else turns off with it, from there determine what is creating the most draw and the easiest way to isolate that device to its own circuit. As others mentioned you will probably find items like the fridge, microwave, coffee pot or dish washer may be on the same circuit. 

Lighting in a home really does not really pull a lot of power unless you leave all the lights on all the time or you have a very large home with many occupants. If you count the bulbs in a home and add up the wattage you would be surprised at how little is normally used, unless your afraid of the dark.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Before anything else, I'd take a recording ampmeter to the circuit and determine exactly what amperage is being drawn.


I'd like to get my electrician back, but he's out of town for little while. Can you walk me through how to take this reading, or should I wait?

Thanks.

BTW, with all the light on, yes, it's lit up like a runway in the kitchen..until it pops.

The kitchen remodel looks professional, but one odd thing is a prominent light switch adjacent the kitchen (family room) that operates nothing (not wall outlet, nothing). Just makes you wonder.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

MarkJames said:


> I'd like to get my electrician back, but he's out of town for little while. Can you walk me through how to take this reading, or should I wait?........


Unless you have an ammeter that can *record*, you'd be spinning your wheels.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

I have never used a recording ammeter to check an overloaded circuit in a residence. Come to think of it, I have never used one to check a branch circuit, period. Pretty easy to just turn everything on the circuit on.


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

MarkJames said:


> I'd like to get my electrician back, but he's out of town for little while. Can you walk me through how to take this reading, or should I wait?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


There's quite a few electricians in the phone book, even more on the web. Surely you can find one, even if yours is out of town.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

TxElectrician said:


> I have never used a recording ammeter to check an overloaded circuit in a residence. Come to think of it, I have never used one to check a branch circuit, period. Pretty easy to just turn everything on the circuit on.


So... is it tripping because of an overload........ or a short? :whistling

Or is the breaker tripping at a level well below it's rating?


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## TxElectrician (May 21, 2008)

480sparky said:


> So... is it tripping because of an overload........ or a short? :whistling
> 
> Or is the breaker tripping at a level well below it's rating?


I don't know, I haven't been there. But I've not had the need to break out a recorder to find out.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

TxElectrician said:


> I don't know, I haven't been there. But I've not had the need to break out a recorder to find out.



So a breaker runs for 12 minutes before it trips.... and you can tell _why_ it tripped?

Do tell.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

While a recorder may in some cases be more efficient, you virtually never _need_ one.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

cwatbay said:


> I am not surprised. I have seen quite a few houses that have several rooms - lights and outlets on one circuit.........


Usually a cost-cutting measure when building.


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## cwatbay (Mar 16, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Usually a cost-cutting measure when building.


Exactly. I have seen this lack or shortage of circuit primarily on houses, condos and townhouses built in the 60's, 70's and early 80's. Before the time of built in microwaves, home theaters, computers and other devices that used up amps.


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## Rob1954 (Jun 22, 2010)

They still do it. My daughter lives in a brand new town house built by a nationwide production builder. The circuit box is on the outside of the house in a combined meter box.

I put a lock on it when I found that out.

The entire upper floor (two bedrooms, full bath, laundry, and a bonus room) is wired on two circuits. It's marked in the panel as Upstairs Left and Upstairs Right.

I thought it was odd so I turned off the left side breaker. Sure enough, every light, fan, and receptacle on the left side of the upstairs was off.

Fortunately, the dryer is on a dedicated circuit.


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