# Granule loss on Landmark shingle



## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

Here are some photos of Landmark shingles about 5 years old.

The home has a lot of trees around it and leaves and pine needles pile up in the valley.

The homeowner only has the roof cleaned off once per year. 

I don’t know if it makes sense to sell Lifetime asphalt shingles because I don’t think you can count on them lasting longer than a 30 year roof.

I think if the owner wants a high end job they might be better off with Tru Slate or Symphony Slate


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I agree about the lifetime shingle. i tell my customer the only reason to go with a lifetime shingle is if you like the design or color. 

As far as the true slate, IMO it's not TRUE slate. It's a pollex, and if you can't afford a Rollex, you shouldn't buy a pollex. What I know of it, it's basically a slate tile cut in half. Correct? Therefore only get it if you like the look or style.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

Grumpy said:


> I agree about the lifetime shingle. i tell my customer the only reason to go with a lifetime shingle is if you like the design or color.
> 
> As far as the true slate, IMO it's not TRUE slate. It's a pollex, and if you can't afford a Rollex, you shouldn't buy a pollex. What I know of it, it's basically a slate tile cut in half. Correct? Therefore only get it if you like the look or style.


Do you have any opinions about or experience with synthetic slate?


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> I agree about the lifetime shingle. i tell my customer the only reason to go with a lifetime shingle is if you like the design or color.
> 
> As far as the true slate, IMO it's not TRUE slate. It's a pollex, and if you can't afford a Rollex, you shouldn't buy a pollex. What I know of it, it's basically a slate tile cut in half. Correct? Therefore only get it if you like the look or style.


Exactly.

I haven't done any, but we've "repaired" several installations that the original roofer couldn't make not leak. The strip of plastic that lays under the slate is what actually turns the water and there are some tough to flash characteristics to the design.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

MEL said:


> Do you have any opinions about or experience with synthetic slate?


I've done some and I'm not totally sold on it. I've seen some failures and who knows how long the stuff will last. I'll feel better about it after it's been road tested a little longer without the formulas being tinkered with.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

MEL said:


> Do you have any opinions about or experience with synthetic slate?


Most are too glossy and have a sheen. I really like the davinci. Takes about as much time to install as a cedar shake. My experience is limited on synthetic slate however. My opinion is that it too is a Pollex, but I expect them to last as long, if not longer, than an asphalt shingle.

One thing I fixed a roof that the roofer nailed too tightly and after the first summer the synthetic tiles "oil canned" which is something I am sure all vinyl siding guys are familiar with. It was Eco Star. The fixing was extensive and time consuming replacing a slate here and a slate there. The owner was pissed because the roofer was blaming the manufactuer the manufacturer blaming the roofer. In this case it was the roofer's fault.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> Most are too glossy and have a sheen. I really like the davinci. Takes about as much time to install as a cedar shake. My experience is limited on synthetic slate however. My opinion is that it too is a Pollex, but I expect them to last as long, if not longer, than an asphalt shingle.
> 
> One thing I fixed a roof that the roofer nailed too tightly and after the first summer the synthetic tiles "oil canned" which is something I am sure all vinyl siding guys are familiar with. It was Eco Star. The fixing was extensive and time consuming replacing a slate here and a slate there. The owner was pissed because the roofer was blaming the manufactuer the manufacturer blaming the roofer. In this case it was the roofer's fault.


That's a problem with Ecostar. The manufacturer's recommended fix is to apply a piece of EPDM seam tape under the offending shingles and "stick them down". Sounds a little suspect to me.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Looks to me more like a lousy job removing an ice dam. Could be home owner or unexperianced ice/snow removal company. Given the locations this is the first thought.

If the home owner has never had ice removed from the roof than it would be best to take pictures and contact CT for a claim. If it's within the first 5 years it would fall into the sure start period if a 30 year shingle. If it is in fact a "lifetime" shingle than it would have a 10 year sure start period.

Saw what appears to be the same marks on a roof I looked at early this Spring from a home owners shovel.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

dougger222 said:


> Looks to me more like a lousy job removing an ice dam. Could be home owner or unexperianced ice/snow removal company. Given the locations this is the first thought.
> 
> If the home owner has never had ice removed from the roof than it would be best to take pictures and contact CT for a claim. If it's within the first 5 years it would fall into the sure start period if a 30 year shingle. If it is in fact a "lifetime" shingle than it would have a 10 year sure start period.
> 
> Saw what appears to be the same marks on a roof I looked at early this Spring from a home owners shovel.


I don't think it from snow removal.

The house has a lot trees around it, some pine trees.

I wonder if the leaves and pine needles are leaching out acid as they sit there and deterioate.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

I would ask the home owner if they have ever had the roof cleared of snow/ice. 

I don't think 5 years ago the Landmark was AR so may not be able to claim for that. The roof we did the past couple days was in the woods on a lake and it had a lot of debris on the roof. The owner said to clear the roof off once a year. The 20 year 92 installed three tabs had nothing like what's in your pics and they weaved the valley, 4/12.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

dougger222 said:


> I would ask the home owner if they have ever had the roof cleared of snow/ice.
> 
> I don't think 5 years ago the Landmark was AR so may not be able to claim for that. The roof we did the past couple days was in the woods on a lake and it had a lot of debris on the roof. The owner said to clear the roof off once a year. The 20 year 92 installed three tabs had nothing like what's in your pics and they weaved the valley, 4/12.


I'll ask him tomarrow about snow removal.

The roof may actually be about 7 years old I'll have to verify it.


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## Lab Rat (Mar 19, 2006)

Mel is the roof failing any were else? or just were the debris piles up and freezes and thaws time after time year after year? in your photos trees blocking the one valley so the leaves and pine needles have to stay in the valley. Looks to me like some pruning is needed, Shingles are designed to shed water not hold leaves and pine debris, a little home maintenance would go along way. but that just my 2 cents for what it worth.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

Lab Rat said:


> Mel is the roof failing any were else? or just were the debris piles up and freezes and thaws time after time year after year? in your photos trees blocking the one valley so the leaves and pine needles have to stay in the valley. Looks to me like some pruning is needed, Shingles are designed to shed water not hold leaves and pine debris, a little home maintenance would go along way. but that just my 2 cents for what it worth.


It's only in the two valleys, on each side of the dormer.

The owner says he has never had anyone do snow removal.


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

MEL said:


> It's only in the two valleys, on each side of the dormer.
> 
> The owner says he has never had anyone do snow removal.



Sorry Mel, I don't believe him.

There is something going on and it is not the trees.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

He could be throwing salt up in the valleys.


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## MEL (Apr 7, 2007)

That’s Landmark 40, he wanted 40 year because it was Algae resistant.

I think this guy has let leaves sit on the roof for years at a time.

I also installed Leaf Relief gutter protection and he called me 5 years later complaining that trees where growing on it. I asked him if he ever had it cleaned off and he said no. He wanted to know if he could get his money back. I told him no but if he wanted me to I would come out and remove it for free.

I recommended that he have the leaves removed from the roof at least once per year. The house is surrounded by trees, now I think he should have it cleaned 3 times per year. I’ll bet he let the leaves build up in those valleys for 5 years. He probably didn’t have it cleaned until after he called me complaining about the gutter protection.

He is also complaining that he thinks algae is growing on the shingles. I’m not sure what it is, it could be moss or fungus.

I’ll bet he is going to expect me to process the warranty claim for free. I think I should charge him at least $250 for removing the shingles and replacing them.

I don’t have enough work coming to pay my bills I can’t afford to do anything for free.


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## dougger222 (Jan 29, 2004)

Hate to break it to you but Certainteed only compensates $50 to remove two shingles. Of course you would have to charge the home owner $200.

If you could do 10 pulls on one story 4/12 all side by side with each home owner with a sturdy ladder set up you could do ok. If you got to drive across town for $50 for a half hour it's not worth it. 

If they are AR's they should have 10 year coverage.


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## Roofman20033 (Jan 29, 2008)

I think you may get away with a metal valley and use an SBS shingle.
I also agree some pruning would really help as well!


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

MEL said:


> That’s Landmark 40, he wanted 40 year because it was Algae resistant.
> 
> I think this guy has let leaves sit on the roof for years at a time.
> 
> ...


It's not YOUR warranty to pay for. Contact CertainTeed. It's either his neglect or the manufacturer's problem. 

As for the $50 payment, Dougger is right... but that's also not your problem. The home owner can pay you $250 or he can pay someone else $250. The manufacturer warranty is a contract between the property owner and the manufacturer, you are not involved.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

I wouldn't touch any valley for 250. Wait til something else goes wrong with it and they blame it on you cuz you touched the valley. Thnat 250 now goes to minus 2 thousand when you're in the middle of someone else's mess.


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