# 3 seasons room keeps leaking



## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

One thing I'm noticing is the the step flashings seem to have been bent at 90. I can see an opening or two there.

80 is much better, then shoved against the wall for a tight seal. Maybe a dab of caulk in severe weather areas, like this.


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## contractorjay (Dec 22, 2009)

tinner666 said:


> One thing I'm noticing is the the step flashings seem to have been bent at 90. I can see an opening or two there.
> 
> 80 is much better, then shoved against the wall for a tight seal. Maybe a dab of caulk in severe weather areas, like this.



thanks! we'll do exactly that and see how it works.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

contractorjay said:


> really? even though the problems solved?


...is the problem solved? (for now).....The best I can say is ice dams, and leaks are hard to pinpoint....The general consensus is that gable vents disrupt airflow from soffit to ridge. 

The cure to leaks in winter is a process of elimination......often times not the roofers fault at all, or even related to the roofing details.

We have a new build that has been having problems since completion....we have the best minds available working on the problem and it's never cut and dry.

IMO, if you find a system that is working, don't mess with it. I'm just offering suggestions.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Since I can't see any of the wall details, take a look at this page and see if you missed anything on the wall. You never know sometimes.http://www.albertsroofing.com/Window%20Flashing.htm


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## contractorjay (Dec 22, 2009)

WNYcarpenter said:


> ...is the problem solved? (for now).....The best I can say is ice dams, and leaks are hard to pinpoint....The general consensus is that gable vents disrupt airflow from soffit to ridge.
> 
> The cure to leaks in winter is a process of elimination......often times not the roofers fault at all, or even related to the roofing details.
> 
> ...



your suggestion makes sense. the gable vents will disrupt airflow from soffit to ridge. but there is no soffit at all. it's just a roof meet wall.


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## Roofer Doug (Feb 26, 2011)

contractorjay said:


> really? even though the problems solved?


no no no leave the the gable vents. The key is the circulation. you need the air moving. And yes they probably do need insulation. If it was blown in it should average 14". What directions is the roof facing. If its a southern exposure that could be part of the problem. what's the pitch? did you go 3 or 6 ft Ice & water. You might want to consider heat tape. I go up 3 ft with a 1foot between bottom.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

WNYcarpenter said:


> If it's a three season room...what season do they not use it?
> 
> *Sorry If I'm not helping with the cure, but if the area is supposed to be turned off in winter it* should be thermally isolated from the main house and remain cold.
> 
> ...


Good in theory but not always the case. I live in an old house with an unheated front porch. There is enough heat loss from the house to cause an ice dam on the porch roof under certain conditions.



WNYcarpenter said:


> I can't explain the science, but gable vents counteract with the ridge vent....you should seal the gable vents with a continuous ridge vent....


It is the path of least resistance. Air will enter at the gable vents instead of the soffit area, exiting at the ridge vent (highest point).



contractorjay said:


> i think the pitch was like a 4 or 5/12. cant remember exactly. the step flashing was put on after we installed ice & water. looks like a mess i know.


That looks to me like you are counting on the vinyl siding to stop the leak. I would have liked to have seen your step flashing go to the original wall sheathing and under the original house wrap or felt.

Good Luck
Dave


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

Roofer Doug said:


> no no no leave the the gable vents. The key is the circulation. you need the air moving. And yes they probably do need insulation. If it was blown in it should average 14". What directions is the roof facing. If its a southern exposure that could be part of the problem. what's the pitch? did you go 3 or 6 ft Ice & water. You might want to consider heat tape. I go up 3 ft with a 1foot between bottom.


Gable vents or ridge vent, not both.

Good Luck
Dave


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

Are the step flashings behind the house wrap? If not, any moisture that gets thru the vinyl siding can go behind the steps.


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## jmiller (May 14, 2010)

I don't think there will be any housewrap to overlap the step other than that styrofoam. The step looks like it's on the outside, but covered in tar (?). 

Personally, I'd take a couple more courses of vinyl out, make sure the step is installed right and new material is used, and cover the exposed styrofoam with grace 2+' up that laps over the step as seeyou mentioned.

The trim board is also too tight to the roof, and needs the first pc of step to go behind it, and out the bottom through a kerf in the front facing board. Since the valley bottoms out before passing the corner, I'd just remove both boards and wrap the Grace around that corner as well.


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## seeyou (Dec 12, 2008)

jmiller said:


> I don't think there will be any housewrap to overlap the step other than that styrofoam. The step looks like it's on the outside, but covered in tar (?).
> 
> Personally, I'd take a couple more courses of vinyl out, make sure the step is installed right and new material is used, and cover the exposed styrofoam with grace 2+' up that laps over the step as seeyou mentioned.
> 
> *The trim board is also too tight to the roof, and needs the first pc of step to go behind it, and out the bottom through a kerf in the front facing board.* Since the valley bottoms out before passing the corner, I'd just remove both boards and wrap the Grace around that corner as well.



That's the huckleberry. I didn't catch that the corner boards were wood. I bet there's no flashing, just some caulk at the corner. Good call.


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

A lot of good tips here.

I'd wait for warmer weather at this point.
Remove shingles,and siding 2'up,that corner
post.and dow board.
Roll fresh I&W up the wall at least 1',and around the corner,
making sure it seals 100%(thus the warmer weather)
Then install roofing,step,dow board,siding.
Tape any joints in the dow,so any intrusion 
behind the siding won't get a chance to go
behind the I&W or step flashing.
Keep most of your nails high where you can
so they don't compromise the I&W.
Another reason to do it in warmer weather is
so the nails in the J seal as they go through the 
I&W rather than rip it as they tend to do in 
the cold.
The way that is now,any ice dams can go behind
the siding and up over the I&W that's there now.
This is the only way to be sure you get it done
in one repair.
Keep the J-channel 1/2"-3/4"up off the roof and
extend it past the corner to direct water past the
top of the shingle cut/flashing.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

I wasn't going to get into the cornerboard, and lack of metal flashing. Another thing. The factory ends of Vinyl is clipped on the back for a reason. To let water through. I seldom, actually never see anybody but myself doing so.

Where is this valley ya'll talk of? That's a loose shingle. If it was a valley shingle in that position, he'd be talking about a waterfaucet like flow. :thumbsup:


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

tinner666 said:


> Where is this valley ya'll talk of? That's a loose shingle. If it was a valley shingle in that position, he'd be talking about a waterfaucet like flow. :thumbsup:


I was guessing that was a cap ,thinking maybe 
there is a small peaked area to the right of the
corner?

edit;
looking at it again,it looks like it could be the first 
course of that peaked area.


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## MJW (Jan 27, 2006)

I can't believe there is two pages on this. The pic shows everything and the problem is looking you in the face.
Perfect pic to show a customer and why you are better than the hacks, (well, if you do it correctly and not just slap some I&W on there).


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## oldfrt (Oct 10, 2007)

MJW said:


> I can't believe there is two pages on this. *The pic shows everything and the problem is looking you in the face.*
> Perfect pic to show a customer and why you are better than the hacks, (well, if you do it correctly and not just slap some I&W on there).


Not too sure about that.
Seeing the OP was the original installer,and
came here for info.
If there's another roof plane involved,the
problem could be a valley done wrong.
Really need to have another pic,zoomed out.
Hopefully the OP isn't out doing this repair today,


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## nailkiller1 (Jan 15, 2009)

The roofing and siding issues seemed to be covered by other posters

If it is only leaking when there is snow 

The snow is becoming insulation when it gets deep
Heat is escaping into the attic that does not have enough ventilation to bring attic temp to outside temp

The snow on the roof deck is melting below the snow 
The water runs down until it gets out of snow cover insulation 
and freezes
Now the water above this is trapped and can not go straight down

It will go sideways and up

If this is happening no roofing or flashing will fix it

This is a common problem around here even on properly installed roofing and siding systems


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## dennis (Nov 17, 2004)

Tear the whole thing out and install a low slope roofing material. (I prefer soldered seam copper) Cut the corner boards up off the roof and raise the siding. 

It looks like there's a valley to the right. Pull that out and run the low slope material through.

Why are there a couple short shingle courses?

If there is an eave and gutter above, that *may* be backing up with ice and causing the problem.


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

Corner board with non re-movable DS in the way. Door below.

It's not very visible, but the step is cut flush and reaches to the top of the kerf, then tinner-winged.

Thank goodness for Multi-Master!

edit: I checked my pix out again. No folded over tinners wing on this one. With an open corner, like on a chimney, the piece that is cut level and back to the trim board would be folded around to close the corner where step flashing meets the apron.


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## DavidC (Feb 16, 2008)

I looked back because smarter, better eyes caught the detail. I have to agree with oldfrt, (and not just because I r 1) that does look like a valley shingle. If that is the case then the J channel and corner board are in the direct line of fire during a heavy rain. This could only get worse with time if left uncorrected.

Good Luck
Dave


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## tinner666 (Nov 3, 2004)

You really think that's a valley? If so, I'd go all metal too.
Reason I 'assume' it's not a valley, which is what I first thought, is there looks to be a protruding piece of debris under that tapered shingle.

I dunno. Need more pix!


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

yea i see 3-4 problems just in the pic


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