# An Open Letter To Home Depot



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Dear sirs: 

My observations are concluding that if you have not already you are well on your way to killing the proverbial golden goose and it is only a matter of time before someone new comes on the scene or the local lumber yards begin to maneuver and innovate according to your weaknesses and lay siege to you and begin to dig your foundations right out from under you until you collapse to a former shell of yourself.

What follows are my suggestions to you based upon years of patronizing your locations and observing what I see and have seen and purchasing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of your merchandise as a contractor.

*#1 Change the name of your "Contractor's Check Out" to what it really is : "The Large item check out"*

*#2 Open a real Contractor's only check out. Allow only contractors to check out there.*

*#3 Staff this check out with only your most experienced checkout staff.*

*#4 If the staff manning this check out can't figure out how much something costs, guess. Do not make contractors stand around with nothing to do but waste our time watching the side show as a 17 year old, hungover from her rave party the night before, reluctantly waits for a price check with nothing to do but roll her eyes and cluck about "how management is sooooo stoopid."*

*#4a. Fire any staff members who check out quantities of the same item by ringing each one up separately. Having 30 2x4s and watching your staff scan one at a time or scan the same bar code 30 individual times is ridiculous, as is watching your staff try to scan 40 identical copper connectors one at a time and having to scan each one a minimum of 5 times each to get your computer just to recognize it.*

*#4b. Self check out is not a substitution for manned check outs. You should look at them as an additional service you offer customers to use if they choose, not force them upon people.*

*#5 Do not interrogate me about your own coupons. They are your coupons not mine. Either take them or don't issue them. Your issues with forgery, etc... are none of my concerns.*

*#6 Offer real contractors a 10% discount on everything they purchase.*

*#7 Allow all transactions to be tagged with a P.O. number or name.*

*#8 Staff you aisles with staff who know where things are. Contractors don't need staff who know how to fix a leaky faucet, only where the parts are for a leaky faucet. *

*#9 Immediately fire any staff who stumble upon us searching an aisle for something and ask if we need any help only to offer us help in the form of searching the aisle with us. We were already doing that. We don't need somebody to take over the search or partner up with us to be our 'search buddy' as we search together. We need staff to either take us directly to it or find somebody who knows where it is. The training method currently employed of your staff learning where things are only through taking over our searches is unacceptable.*

*#10 Get out of the contractor services business. *

*#11 Get into the contractor referral business.*

*#12 Get into the financing business. Use your economic clout to create a financial services division that allows contractors to offer financing to their customers through you. (not talking a Home Depot credit card here).*

*#13 Carry a professional quality paint. Behr ain't it.*

*#14 Improve your dimensional lumber supply. Offer propacks of straight 2x4s, maybe 10 to a bundle.*

What you are doing right : large parking lots, well lighted aisles, good selection of assorted products making one stop shopping for non-specialty products a breeze, good prices, good job at keeping inventory in stock, great return policies.

The two most feared activities at any Home Depot are #1 having to talk to any of your staff to ask them a question about anything. #2 checking out.

You currently have at least one thing nobody can take away from you at this time: You at least aren't Lowes. As bad as you've let things get at Home Depot, things are 10 times worse at Lowes. Even the employees at Lowes hate Lowes.


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## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

:clap::clap::clap:

Where can I sign?:laughing:


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> The two most feared activities at any Home Depot are *#1 having to talk to any of your staff to ask them a question about anything.* #2 checking out.


Amen to that!


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Start your own home center!


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

Mike, These home centers really arent up to the challenge of doing what I do, except for concrete pavers, so they are of little threat to me. But I would think with the way they have tried to muscel in on yours and related H I trades, you would like to see them die a painful death so you can pee on thier grave and raise a toast to thier passing.


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## firemike (Dec 11, 2005)

:notworthy AMEN Mike! :notworthy

Put my name on the list too!​


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

#4a is something I hated and the reason for it was because their checkout software did not allow for quantity entries of less than 10 items. So they had to scan the same thing at least 9 times. An of course they didn't know how many you had, so if you had 12, they still scanned them all.

It was until about 6 weeks ago that they finally overcame this, at least in Ontario.

And now just recently if they scan 3 of the same items, it doesn't do 3 line items, it recognises this and just does a quantity for them.

Anyways, good on ya for the rest.


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## marc (Mar 18, 2005)

Home depot bought Enerbank about a year ago. They ARE in the financing business


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## Vinny (Jul 21, 2007)

marc said:


> Home depot bought Enerbank about a year ago. They ARE in the financing business


I forgot that fact.


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## ron schenker (Dec 11, 2005)

Nice to know that HD Canada is the same as HD USA. 
Nice letter Mike, I think *Walmart *needs a similar revamp


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## GregS (Oct 1, 2006)

ron schenker said:


> Nice letter Mike, I think *Walmart *needs a similar revamp


Eh? You shop at Walmart? Why would you do that?


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

BuildingHomes said:


> Eh? You shop at Walmart? Why would you do that?


A few years back a customer gave me a product # for a ceiling fan she picked out at Wall Mart. Never thought of shopping there before that. Their ceiling fans are about 1/3 the price of similar fans at HD or Lowes. Ditto their bathroom hardware. There selection is small but their prices on these items are great.

DITTO the stuff about HD with a few exceptions

Around here we can put job id's on the ticket. We do have a contractor checkout that is for contractors only. It's not a regular register but a separate area next to the "contractor" register. 

I think they should track our purchases and give us rebates based on our annual purchases. Something like 
less than $10,000 gets 0%
$10,000 - $20,000 gets 3%
$20,000 - $30,000 gets 5%
$30,000 - $40,000 gets 7%
$40,000 - $50,000 gets 9%
$50,000 - + gets 10%

Also, when Tony Stewart (#20) wins, we get 20% the next week.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

Mike, well said.

HD doesn't care. It's evident everytime you go there.

The worst part is when I get "HD Amnesia". That's where you are inside one HD, but think you are in another HD, and get the aisle layouts confused and wander around from one end to another until you remember what store you are physically in.

Doesn't matter what store I am in...they all suck.

I ordered $11,000.00 of decking through HD and they had the nerve to charge me for delivery two miles from the store. They don't get it.


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## NCC (Apr 6, 2007)

*Definitely Agree*

I couldnt agree more, I to frquent hd, menards, lowes all for diffferent products. As a Remodeler box stores offer so much convienence when doing a little of everything, but what terrible service and don't get me started on box stores becoming our compitition and expecting us to still buy from them, we have started to move away from buying everything from them, to coordinating our trips to the local lumberyard, ace hardeware, local paint store, local flooring outlet, and so on. Lets put the squeeze on them start buying more local even if it cost more, let your customers know youll charge more and why, weve been doing this awhile and havent had any compalints, most people really support the community they live.
Dan Bethke, Presdient 
New Creations Carpentry Inc.


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## ron schenker (Dec 11, 2005)

BuildingHomes said:


> Eh? You shop at Walmart? Why would you do that?


Tires, clothes, cd's, food, watch, soap, gum, etc. Nothing business related, although their paint is awesome. Just kidding:jester:
Seriously though, the checkout is awful especially in their superstores that have those 15 and less items lines. I swear people can't count. And the staff is clueless and talk like robots that are trained to say only what they've been taught by the managers.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Here is the reply to that letter from Home Depot (If they had the Nuts):

Dear Sir,

We are the Home Depot. We serve the Homeowner. We do not want, and can not service your business, the dreams of upper management not withstanding. I recommend that you do your shopping at a local lumberyard or hardware store that is more in tune with your needs.

Sincerely,

The Home Depot


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Very nice Mike... Also good response T... I bet they wish they could say that.


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## In_Mexifornia (Mar 7, 2007)

> *#7 Allow all transactions to be tagged with a P.O. number or name.*


Commerical accounts let you do this at Home Cheapo. Also, when you get the bill, it shows everything purchased.

IMO Home Cheapo is for Home Owner's. I seldomly purchase stuff there. You can get better service, contractor discounts, and better materials purchased elsewhere. HD is so greedy, they don't even give their employees any discount.

Everything else you said, I agree with. Funny post. :thumbup:


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Remember this about Lowes and the Depot, gents:

I shop their prices weekly and raise mine in response. They are not lower on any item other than power tools, period. I sell commodities, not specialty items, BTW:

(Cement, block, rebar, lath, pavers, etc)

Plus, I take care of contractors before HO's in any given instance, and I am not unique in the industry by any means. Of course, we are not going to float you 6 months of free credit, but 30 day accounts are easy, so long as you keep current. Hell, we will even know your name!


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## excellencee (Feb 1, 2007)

I only show at Home Creepo or Lowes for things that I can find without assistance. I friend of mine who worked an electrical counter for 12 years (9 as the store manager) applied at HD. They put him in lumber! Makes you wonder.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

FYI, My Dad's company built over a hundred HD's; my younger brother retired as a HD Store Manager, my older brother owned a remodel company doing nothing but HD work, and my baby sister even worked at one for years and years as head cashier. HD stock is the cornerstone of my family's wealth, and Tony Stewart is my favorite driver, but that still doesn't mean they should be in the business of serving contractors.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Tscarborough said:


> Here is the reply to that letter from Home Depot (If they had the Nuts):
> 
> Dear Sir,
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that about 12 months ago Home Depot did an about face in their corporate planning. They announced that they were changing their focus from growth of new store locations to a 5 year plan to explore improving contractor service and grow that side of the business. (Now things may have switched again, this was before the president got booted and took 120 million or so with him as part of his golden parachute.)

I have also gotten 2 survey phone calls from them from some corporate office in the last 6 months asking me about earning my business and what they could do for me. 

I ask them the same question. Are you prepared to sell me materials at a price cheaper than you will sell them to your retail customers? The answer is always no, and that's where we end the conversation.


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## lizzydog (Oct 29, 2005)

*An open letter to home depot*

Mike---I was reading another forum where there was an issue concerning of all things, charcoal. An email was sent to customer service desk by several people and all received the same form letter email. One person sent an email to the new chairman and heads were twisting and turning from the head cheese down to the stock boy. Issue was resolved.

Thanks 
lizzydog


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## Danno6102 (May 31, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> The two most feared activities at any Home Depot are *#1 having to talk to any of your staff to ask them a question about anything.* #2 checking out.


:clap:

9 times out of 10 I don't ask, & cringe if it looks like they are coming my way. I often quickly grab something & scurry to the next isle to avoid them. Even if I have no clue what I need or where it is, I'll say "I'm good to go, but thanks.", then spend 2 hours & wander the store looking for it & figuring it out. Lots easier than tutoring a moron.

On the plus side, some of those hungover rave girls are smokin' hot!:thumbsup:


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## dvon104 (Jun 23, 2007)

Home Depot needs to get back to their roots...I was an asst manager of a Home Depot back in the early 90's
My training class was taught by Arthur Blank himself (3days which they no longer do)

First thing he said was "NEVER TELL A CUSTOMER NO"..if they want a refund and no receipt ..give it to them...98% of all people are honest...make the customer happy ...they will come back

Second..."we do not want the professional contractor's business...they do not need nor will they pay extra for the "expertise" we are selling to Joe Homeowner.

Third...never let your employee's point ...if you are in plumbing stocking shelves and some one asks you for a paint brush ...you say right this way and you take them..and if you cant find ..call someone in paint ,but stay with customer until that person gets there ..and then you stay and learn where the brushes are.

Home depot paid a good salary to hire "Pro's"...I was framing and they paid me 13.50 an hr in 90...to work in lumber and millwork...which in the south is pretty good for benefits and A.C.

Bernie Marcus told are class when he came by that the average home owner will spend over 50,000.00 in their lifetime on home products and repairs...and if you piss a customer off over $20 lock he wants his money back on and that customer says screw you I am not coming back well...that is 50,000.00 that walked out of the door...do this once a day and we are out of business

and everyone was promoted from within...my district manger started with the Depot in 83 as a lot guy at 18....in 1993 he was a district manager over 11 stores in Central Fla...knocking out about 150 a yr with options and bonus ...he is now a multi-millionaire I am sure...not a day in college
and they do not do that anymore....
Arthur and Bernie retired..and it went to crap

I was offered a store in Chicago as a manager....I could not go ...I was 26 yrs old...single ..with custody of 4 and 6 yr old sons..and I had my family helping me with their care due to the odd hours I worked ...I told them NO....My new district manager told me "you dont bleed orange , Dale ...so where would you like your career to go ". " You Dale at are at an impasse" ..whatever the hell that meant ...
and that is why all of their "Pro's" are gone and you have the guy form Mickey D's...selling paint

and that is why Home Depot is sucking ...they need to get back to what made them Home Depot


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## woodman42 (Aug 1, 2007)

*HD contractor service*

:thumbsup: I have to agree with everything I have read here. These complaints are the same reason I no longer use HD. Lowes has alot of the same faults, but the store I use has contractor sales people who will actually do whatever it takes to make you happy and get you on your way. Contractors do get 10 percent of normal retail pricing. I have to give my contractor sales people a huge cudos.:thumbup:


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## rservices (Aug 3, 2005)

I haven't seen any comments on pricing.
We have Menard's up here in the land of cheese, they out do HD on just about every thing. 
The only time I shop at HD is when I have to. All of the pricing is at least 20% high then Menard's. 

They say they wont be under sold. well time is money. So by the time they call of the competition for everything in your cart you just spent any savings you mite have made.

I do use their price matching deal with bulk items of large purchases. I just stop at Menards on the way to HD, write down the price and the sku# and walk right up tp a manager and have them price check it while I shop. I pisses them off


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## crb555 (Jun 14, 2007)

Home Depot definitely does not want to serve the contractor. They had bought out Hughes Supply, and Apex, etc a year or so ago. They are now selling it off. I guess they decided they didn't like selling at a 10% margin, when they get 35%+ in the box stores.

We started having some issues with Hughes for a short time when Home Depot acquired them. I spend about 150k / mo with them, and this will sometimes spike a lot higher, depending on if multiple jobs start the same month. For about 3 months running last year, it was taking us 60 days to get lien waivers, which sucks for progress billings, and cash flow. We are certainly liquid enough to deal with it, but that puts you getting paid at 90 days, which tends to irritate the hell out of the boss. Had to raise hell with corporate, and our local salesman was screaming as loud as we were about it. Esp when we tell him to get things right, or Ferguson's will start getting all the orders.

Crb


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

They make 50-75% GPM at the boxes, CRB . We, as an independent, make 40% GPM selling 90% to contractors. 10% GPM means you break even or lose money, triple net.


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## crb555 (Jun 14, 2007)

I'm speaking in terms of net profit, not gross. I did not accurately state that.

A lot depends on scale as well. My counter pickup prices are of course much higher than when I do a buyout of an entire job with 100k+ of pipe / fittings. Costs them more to deal with 100k of purchases 200 bucks at a time vs a 1 shot, deliver the entire job deal.

I suspect you would be happy to sell me 100k/mo materials at 10% net.


Crb5


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Certainly for net. Tell me how you make a salesman understand net when most don't even know the difference between margin and markup, though? 

edit-Also remember that different trades offer different margins. $100,000 of sales is equivilent to about 30 truckloads of material in my business, so I need close to 35% GPM to net 5%.


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## skylands (Dec 10, 2005)

There are 3 lumber yards within 2 miles of the HD near me. All three state that HD has actually increased the lumber yard customer. They (lumber yards) say that customers come in totally frustrated from being in the HD.


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## Tom M (Jan 3, 2007)

The HD in my area does offer a 5% contractor discount on every purchase. You cant beat there prices though my local lumber yard charges 11.40 a 12 ft 2 x6 HD had them for 8.75 plus another 5% off. I was pissed I didnt order there. To top it off it was a 3%sales tax store. I could of bought my fasteners and a with the difference. However I couldnt imagine having a Home Depot delivery truck at a job site.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I have said this before. Lowe's here has a covered loading zone, both stores that I commonly use. HD = zip. Employees now are about on an even base..........when you can find one.


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## Grumpyplumber (May 6, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> *#11 Get into the contractor referral business.*


 
*Oh Mike, they DO have a referral service...you take the work for what they sell it at and get paid less than half the going rate and hope you can convince the homeowner that he really DOES need to repipe his entire home to make up for the loss while you're there.*
*I opted out. What a slap in the face from a store I spend thousands at some months.*


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## fireguy (Oct 29, 2006)

There are some box stores that are great. Those in Eugene, OR know who I am talking about. Jerry's has 2 stores in Eugene. I did a resturant there. I found myself actually buying my products there because the the service from the staff. I was told Jerry's ran a HD out of business because of the service. When you walk in the door, a greeter ask what they can help you with. They will take you by the hand to the department you need, wait with you for a staff member who knows what you need. Then Wait and learn the product, then return to the front door. The contractor check stand is for contractors. I had a cashier close the stand so he could take me to the gate guy who knew what I needed, even if I did not know. When I got the material I needed, we went back to the check stand and I finished my business. At the pick-up area, trained staff helped load my van. I was amazed, it was a joy to shop there. HD could learn a lot from Jerry's. And they always took my check, my CCB # was proof enough for them. 

fireguy


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

What REALLY pisses me off is that I have to compete against them. It's simply not right that they should sell to us, and then compete against us. They get the material sale anyway, so I don't see the logic.
Fortunately, in almost every instance, the sales person representing HD is an idiot. I have won many jobs from them.
In the mid 80's, one of my suppliers decided to build fences, thus competing against his own customers. It was a smaller world then, and after his contractor business dropped off 50% and he found out all the bull crap that goes on with homeowners, he got out of it.
I still buy from him, after 25 years.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

I could have sworn i wrote a post on this - musta hit "X" instead of send

I hate hearing about the advice one of my clients gets from "The Guy At Home Depot"

it always seems my clients have some kinda DIY project going on at the same time I'm there - if not, shortly after I leave. Naturally, I'll get into a conversation about it and it's always:

"well, the Guy At Home Depot told me I should do this"


I think that's what I hate most about Home Depot. They really HAVE NO BUSINESS in giving out the kind of advice that they do.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

It's interesting to read some of the little differences around the country at how some of their stores differ a little bit. 

I find it most interesting how some have responded that they do get a discount on their purchases. 

My questions about that is, are you getting it only on orders through the pro desk for like 10 doors or a couple of thousand dollars worth of lumber or do you get it just the same if you walk up and buy a padlock or a saw horse and take it to a regular check out?

I'm predicting Home Depot is going to slip some more before its all over with. I'd certainly like to see some local yards or smaller national yards really sink their teeth into H.D.s issues and take back some market share. 

Of course my reasons are all selfish, I just want better service for myself.:laughing:


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> I'm predicting Home Depot is going to slip some more before its all over with. I'd certainly like to see some local yards or smaller national yards really sink their teeth into H.D.s issues and take back some market share.


I don't think HD is in the same market as lumber yards. I buy my lumber packages from a local yard. They offer service, price, and variety that HD can't match. If I need 20 studs, I'll pick them up at HD because they are more convenient.


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