# Questions I should ask to pick a web master?



## Second Look (Jan 13, 2007)

> Our staff of no tech  have no trouble with FP. What would you recommend for those that would like to use other.


That's exactly who FP is designed for. As you well know, construction Pro's use different tools from homeowners. It's the same in the tech world. 

The big problem with FP is that it royally gunks up the markup with un-needed tags. A page generated with FP is about TRIPLE the length of a page generated by hand or with a leaner editing tool. It's very hard to decipher when there's a problem with the page and you're fixing it.

The Coffee Cup editors are pretty good. I use J-Edit and type or copy/paste everything by hand.


----------



## Second Look (Jan 13, 2007)

One more thing. DO NOT let anyone obtain or renew your domain name *"for you"*. I once helped out where an office receptionist (company employee) had renewed the domain account then left the company. We had to re-activate her old company email address then send an email FROM that address to get things ironed out. 

This was just an oversight. Imagine how much more difficult it could have been if it were intentional. It's really a form of identity theft, and can be difficult to resolve.


----------



## Cole (Aug 27, 2004)

He got ripped off on that one site for 20k!

Half of the pages have nothing on them and secondly, that is not all that complicated in flash.

Plus it loads so sloowww


----------



## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

Second Look said:


> That's exactly who FP is designed for. As you well know, construction Pro's use different tools from homeowners. It's the same in the tech world.
> 
> The big problem with FP is that it royally gunks up the markup with un-needed tags. A page generated with FP is about TRIPLE the length of a page generated by hand or with a leaner editing tool. It's very hard to decipher when there's a problem with the page and you're fixing it.
> 
> The Coffee Cup editors are pretty good. I use J-Edit and type or copy/paste everything by hand.


yeh...and Ford is better then Dodge, and so on.  Average joe can have a web page with no problems in no time using FP. They don't and should not care what the code and all the other rederic. Front page is the same as DIY forums for home owners. Kept simple for the stupid.......:w00t: And every office that operates with MS has FP at there finger tips.......


----------



## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

wackman said:


> Here's the delima I'm having. I know two people who do web design and now I've been speaking with Dub from Vision, who seems very professional and knowledgable.
> 
> One guy I know does my graphics stuff, he's good, he's been doing it awhile and he's EXPENSIVE.
> 
> ...


Your inexpensive one is built by Frontpage. Seems to load alot faster then the expensive one. Don't care for the pink brain matter.........


----------



## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

mickeyco said:


> Make sure you aren't buying AA Paint's website, by that I mean material ripped from others, it sucks to pay for something and then have to take it down.





wackman said:


> What do you mean?


I mean make sure the designer didn't take the pictures or text off someone else website or is using a purchased template that has images that have to be paid for to use. I'm not exactly sure how you'd do this because I doubt the person would tell you he/she is doing it, but price is usually a good indicator (not always though). Maybe google the pictures or text from some of the designers previous sites. Some make it obvious by using pictures off major company websites. I've seen many posts on this board by members who have found pictures and text from their website on other peoples sites.


----------



## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Cole said:


> He got ripped off on that one site for 20k!
> 
> Half of the pages have nothing on them and secondly, that is not all that complicated in flash.
> 
> Plus it loads so sloowww


And how, sh!t for 20K I'll give him a site with live dancing monkeys.


----------



## Second Look (Jan 13, 2007)

woodmagman said:


> yeh...and Ford is better then Dodge, and so on.  Average joe can have a web page with no problems in no time using FP. They don't and should not care what the code and all the other rederic. Front page is the same as DIY forums for home owners. Kept simple for the stupid.......:w00t: And every office that operates with MS has FP at there finger tips.......


It's not Ford vs Dodge at all. If you hire a pro they should use pro tools, simple as that. If you hire a designer who uses tools designed for the office staff, expect to pay more to go back and get it done right later when you decide you want the site updated.


----------



## wackman (Nov 14, 2005)

mickeyco said:


> And how, sh!t for 20K I'll give him a site with live dancing monkeys.


I agree, I asked my cousin how happy he was with his site last night and he said the exact same thing that I was thinking. The guy is great at the creative stuff but not so good at the nuts and bolts of function and navigation. He doesn't seem too happy. 

Get this too, this is the third web designer my cousin has used because he's been unhappy with them all and he's spent almost $75k on them all total! That's why I'm putting so much thought into this, I can see how you might not be happy and want to redo things, then spend a crap load pursuing it. I just need to figure out what I want, keep it simple and find the best person/company for that job.


----------



## woodmagman (Feb 17, 2007)

Find out where they live, so if they don't deliver what they promise you can go to them with your problems.


----------



## TridentOps (Feb 16, 2007)

*This is what you do*



wackman said:


> I agree, I asked my cousin how happy he was with his site last night and he said the exact same thing that I was thinking. The guy is great at the creative stuff but not so good at the nuts and bolts of function and navigation. He doesn't seem too happy.
> 
> Get this too, this is the third web designer my cousin has used because he's been unhappy with them all and he's spent almost $75k on them all total! That's why I'm putting so much thought into this, I can see how you might not be happy and want to redo things, then spend a crap load pursuing it. I just need to figure out what I want, keep it simple and find the best person/company for that job.



I checked out the sites you posted, they were good but at a price point of 20k i expect custom 3d animations or something. His homepage was also pretty basic but nice and clean. I could learn a thing about layout from him. Still quite expensive none the less. The third site could do with some lessons on CSS. My advice to you. Dont spend a dime on a web designer. There is plenty of free software out there (with documentation) that I would say you dont need one. 

i know im going to sound like a broken record, but I think mambo or joomla are both pretty powerfull for the small buisness owner. easily customized, open source and lots of support. Then bring in a designer if you want a spiffy flash movie or something added. Now, I dont do web design full time anymore so this is just my experience. But I see people charged every day for something that isnt quite what they want. Spending the time is worth it to save yourself an enourmous amount of money.

my website
http://www.tridentoffice.com

a flash website I did for someone
http://www.hocusfocusbabyblanket.com - has 1 bug which only i seem to care about  but it wasnt 20k 

http://photolm.com- simple html site with some flash accents.

http://joomla.org - open source cms
http://mambo.org - open source cms

oh, and if you really want to be tricky, there is a company out there ( i will try and find the link) that bridges the gap by using a joomla backend with a flash frontend. So the clients and visitors see a pretty flash site, but the search engines can spider it and its simple to update.


----------



## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

TridentOps said:


> I checked out the sites you posted, they were good but at a price point of 20k i expect custom 3d animations or something. His homepage was also pretty basic but nice and clean. I could learn a thing about layout from him. Still quite expensive none the less. The third site could do with some lessons on CSS. My advice to you. Dont spend a dime on a web designer. There is plenty of free software out there (with documentation) that I would say you dont need one.
> 
> i know im going to sound like a broken record, but I think mambo or joomla are both pretty powerfull for the small buisness owner. easily customized, open source and lots of support. Then bring in a designer if you want a spiffy flash movie or something added. Now, I dont do web design full time anymore so this is just my experience. But I see people charged every day for something that isnt quite what they want. Spending the time is worth it to save yourself an enourmous amount of money.
> 
> ...


If all of us spent the necessary time to be web designers, copy writers,
SEO professionals, Website marketers etc are we in the right business?

We should make our own lawn signs, our flyers, door hangers
Paint our own vehicles, design our yellow pages ads, design and drop off our own postcards...

What's next homeowners doing their own paint jobs, renovations etc.


----------



## TridentOps (Feb 16, 2007)

*i appreciate what your saying*



George Z said:


> If all of us spent the necessary time to be web designers, copy writers,
> SEO professionals, Website marketers etc are we in the right business?
> 
> We should make our own lawn signs, our flyers, door hangers
> ...


So what are you saying exactly? That as a buisness owner I shouldnt make an attempt to save some money?

And how does this relate to homeowners doing their own jobs? Following instructions and a few mouse clicks is a lot easier than doing a remodel.

I dont follow your reply.


----------



## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

TridentOps said:


> So what are you saying exactly? That as a buisness owner I shouldnt make an attempt to save some money?
> 
> And how does this relate to homeowners doing their own jobs? Following instructions and a few mouse clicks is a lot easier than doing a remodel.
> 
> I dont follow your reply.


All I am saying is that it takes time, a lot of time to do it right.
It is possible though


----------



## wackman (Nov 14, 2005)

TridentOps said:


> My advice to you. Dont spend a dime on a web designer. There is plenty of free software out there (with documentation) that I would say you dont need one.


Appreciate the vote of confidence but no way am I going to do it myself, I build houses not web sites. Shoot, I'm still trying to figure out Word and Excel.

Your site looks real similar to some of the sites from vision and footbridge. Nice, clean, to the point. That's partly what I want but the more I think about it the more I think I want some really unique design. Like you've all said the guy knows design, I've been very impressed with his creativeness. I won't, however, be spending that kind of money so I still might not be going with him.

I am a little torn about this subject still, as you can see...


----------



## benseas (Sep 29, 2006)

Website is paying off big time for us. The guys that did my website were great. One of the guys use to be a contractor so really understands the business. The company is called Cimpros out of VA.


----------



## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

www.WrightWorks.net

I built this site myself with FrontPage and have had little to no problems with it. I grew up on Microsoft products and so it was the easiest for me to pick up and use. I adapted my site to the ability of the program because I knew I would be updating it on a regular basis and I frankly didn't have time to mess with learning one of the more designer preferred web editors. The free, and even paid for, templates available on the net are total crap. 

My advice would be to find a web person with good graphic design skills to make your logo, colors, and page layouts look clean and visually cohesive. Write the text content yourself, or work with someone who knows sales to help you. When you're done, then you can think about tweaking it for the search engines. 

Forget flash...forget 3d...forget the complicated bells and whistles....When you cram all of that SH## together on the same page it becomes a mess and most people won't have the patience to sift through it to find your info. I really am not a fan of forms either, when a simple email link is a fast and easy way for them to contact you. Think of your own online experiences with sites that turned you off. "NEXT" is only a click away. 

Put some money into the graphic design, logo, etc....but make the pages simple to read, simple to navigate and loaded with information that will make a prospective client CALL you, EMAIL you, HIRE you...

If you know anything about sales, you understand that the flashiest ads don't always (most of the time don't) sell the best. You have to start talking and telling them why doing business with you will benefit them. Benefits benefits benefits.... By all means include a portfolio...make it simple to navigate... showcase your best projects...and references--YOU MUST HAVE REFERENCES, no ifs ands or buts... If you don't have any, turn off the computer, call your happiest clients and ASK. 

Fortune 500 companies need different websites than local businesses do--they have different goals.... A web presence for a contractor isn't about increasing awareness or public relations or yadda yadda yadda....it should be about getting people to call you and hire you... pure and simple.... Whether they find you on a search engine or if they're given your address by you or a friend.

As I said in another post--most web designers have no sales background at all... Stroke your ego all you want...pay big $$$$ for an artsy site you can show all your friends... but my simple site pulls in 2-3 solid leads per month (for projects ranging from kitchen & bath remodels to room additions) and has solidified my reputation and "sold" me to countless others who got my name from other sources and ended up there to learn more about me. 

BTW, up until 6 weeks ago--I was only getting page 3 or 4 placement on most search engines. I made a few minor text additions to my home page and now I'm on the first page for a number of keywords relating to remodeling in my city--and that's without any sponsored links. It doesn't have to be rocket science to work. 

In the end, I would compare hiring a web designer akin to hiring a kitchen designer. There are a ton out there that will sell you a lot of cabinets, a lot of parts, and make it incredibly complicated--jacking up the cost all along the way. But in the end, simpler designs are not only more reasonable in cost, they usually look and work better as well.


----------



## ChrWright (Jul 17, 2007)

Oh, and a fat cigar to the first to point out the spelling error on my home page that I've been too lazy to go into photoshop and fix. :whistling


----------



## DerrickVWS (Nov 17, 2006)

PORTFOLIIO

Now... where's my cigar? By the way, great website! Now go fix your typo already! Or... just use the edited version I attached here: http://www.visionwebservices.com/temp/buttonheader3.gif (same file with minor pixel edit) 
One other minor thing... I have a 20" widescreen Dell LCD and this navigation image jumps up to the right of your logo when I view your site fullscreen. (link to screenshot reduced in size). Also, you have a few pages with TITLE tags and it wouldn't hurt to put meta tags in for keyword and description. Maybe also add the meta tag <META name="Revisit-After" content="30 Days">



Also, *wackman* mentioned the company I work for as "Vision" (Vision Web Services) in a post on 03-30-2007. I believe he talked to one of our staff members (Dub) and had us take a look at www.ryanolsenhomes.com to give him an idea of what we'd do to create a better site than Ryan Olsen's. I know because I was the web designer that provided the feedback he requested from us. Just for fun and since none of it is really private... here was my feedback I provided on 4/6/2007. (Keep in mind; I thought the request was coming from Ryan Olsen.)


> --------------------------
> 
> I'll tackle this challenge. Here are my Top 10 initial suggestions for improving RyanOlsen.com. (I could keep going, but I'll save them for the actual project.)​
> I'd get rid of the "all flash" site. It just isn't very easy to use and can't display very much information. I imagine the search engines are not showing this website very much love.​
> ...


----------

