# Any Fencing Contractors out there?



## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Good point Teetor. I wasn't really thinking that. The cordless don't seem extremely heavier in the store but I'm sure it's a different story after a full day using one.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

One thing about the thoughts on a compressor and fencing. Cordless is not much of a factor as far as convienence goes. With fencing you are generally working on one flat plane for a good distance, not like in a jobsite where you are walking all around, up and down. 

With a fence you set the compressor in the middle of the run of fence and walk to the end and bang, bang, bang all the way down till you pass the compressor and keep working away from it, its not nearly the same as working on a jobsite. 

You should also be able to set your depth if you are using PC nailers. However with cedar being so damn soft I can see where you are getting a lot of punch through.


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## G.L. In Ont (Nov 26, 2004)

*DeWalt XBR 18V cordless nailer*

I spotted one of these at Home Depot - it was a finish nailer but it made me wonder if there either is or will be a framing nailer that can be used with the XBR 18V batteries. The weight was pretty decent, I had it one hand and the Paslode in the other and they seemed about the same. 

Mike, you make a good point about the straight plane of a fence vs. up/down as you'd be on a building site. I guess I found the cord was in the way of other things I had around and having not worked with them that much, messing with the pressure and depth gauge took a little bit of extra time. 

GL


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

There was a post in the tools section (I think) the other day that was showing the new Milwaukee battery powered finish nailers coming out soon. No mention of battery powered framing nailers yet - we'll have to see.

Mike's point about the compressor being less of a problem for fences as opposed to inside work is a valid one. By the time I get around to nailing the fence boards up about all that I need are my SCMS and table saw. If you plan out your set-up, you shouldn't have too many problems.

One problem I started having last fall was that my compressor was blowing the circuits on virtually every plug in the new homes I was working on. That is why I have been considering getting a cordless nailer. Running cords is the least of my problem.

Regardless of the type of nailer you use, you may still have to set the pressure and the depth guide. Also, you have to remember (and may have to remind customers) when you're building basic board-on-board fencing, etc., that you are building just that, a "fence". You're not building a fine piece of oak furniture or dining room set. If I had a customer that didn't like the depth of the nails and wanted the boards hand-nailed, the price would go up by $5-$10 per linear foot.


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## G.L. In Ont (Nov 26, 2004)

*Fencing*

Terry - yeah you're right - getting things put away and leaving less out when you're at the boards stage will get around any issues of tripping over stuff - good point. And you're right, the expectation has to be set properly re: how 'perfect' the fence will be. I'm coming at it with a definite zest to get it looking the best I can but realize everything won't always be perfect or sometimes not even close to. 

On the subject of your main focus, decks, do you get the post hole guys to do the holes for your sonotubes when you're building decks? Have you experimented with the footing tube or 'Bigfoot' vs. just a straight pour? If you're doing a hole are you always trying to splay out the bottom for a larger footing? Are you leaving that to cure and then pouring the column?

What is your split in terms of decks/fences -- sounds like you're mostly decking but just curious? Oh and do you remember how much you paid for the magnetic business cards?


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

GL,

Re: your site set-up: you'll figure things out as you go along. Fencing for new homes is generally easier because you have less in your way. If you're doing tear-downs and new fences in older neighbourhoods it can be a little trickier. Every job will be a little bit different.

Re: deck piers: If I am doing a fence & deck for the same customer then I definitely have him do the post holes for the deck at the same time. If it's just a deck, then it depends on the size. Post Hole guys have a "float" or minimum charge for taking their tractor off the trailer - usually around $225-$250. As for the holes themselves, I just go down 4' and put the sonotube in the hole and pour the cement as soon as possible (if you've ever been interupted by rain and had to bale water out of holes with a cup you'll know whay I say that). I've never had a deck move on me yet. Once I even did the piers without sonotube. I know it's not code but it was my own deck and in my opinion sonotubes are a waste of money - basically a necessary evil.

My split is about 75/25 (decks to fences) but it can vary. In new subdivisions, you're likely going to get more fences. I very rarely get "just fence" jobs. If I am doing a fence it is usually in addition to a deck.

I haven't bought any of the magnetic cards yet so I can't help you there. I would suggest that you find a place that will be able to do all of the printing you are interested in getting. That way they'll have your artwork on file and they may offer you some volume discounts.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

DecksEtc said:


> One problem I started having last fall was that my compressor was blowing the circuits on virtually every plug in the new homes I was working on. That is why I have been considering getting a cordless nailer. Running cords is the least of my problem.


If it is just running one gun at a time, not a gang of them, a small pancake compressor would be more than enough to do any fencing and deck jobs, be cheaper, easier to maintain, and easier on the back. You won't blow any circuits with one of those.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Good suggestion Mike. 

Myself, I went with the PC C3550 for a few reasons. I wanted the flexability of the detachable controller and the portability of it being on wheels. Also, my research prior to buying it lead me to the decision to go with an oil-lube model for it's durability and the ability to run it on uneven surfaces - it can sit at a 45 deg. angle and still run great. 

As for it tripping breakers, I'm inclined to believe that it has a lot to do with the homes I was working on. At two different places, it would fill up fine at start up and then when it would kick in to restore the pressure, it would trip the breaker(s). I have run it on several different circuits in my own home and never had the problem (both before and after the problems at the clients'). However, because it happened at two different places I am inclined to think that it could use a good cleaning/tune-up.

http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=4795


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

That's a nice one.

It says it pulls 12 amps. That could easily be enough to pop a normal 14 guage circuit in somebodies home if they had even 50% of the circuit on when that baby fires up. 

I need a bigger compressor too. I like to use a air powered impact wrench to drive lag bolts for ledgers and my compressor is too small to continue driving effectively.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

I know what you mean about the circuits. The part that has me puzzled is the fact it fills up fine at I start it up but then trips breakers when it kicks in the next time. 
The best thing about my compressor is the detachable controller. I can run 50' of hose from the compressor to the controller and then another 50' from there without any loss of pressure.

An air impact wrench is already on my "to buy" list. I wasn't thinking about using it for the lag bolts though - great idea! And I've been doing them by hand all this time! Doh!


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## G.L. In Ont (Nov 26, 2004)

*Impact wrench*

Mike, that is a really good thing, using an impact wrench for lag bolts -- never even thought about it. I was peeking through the Craftsman (Sears) 2005 Tool catalogue and saw several. 

I have the pancake compressor that came with a finish nailer and it's the one I used last year when I used the PC framing nailer for fence boards and it worked fine -- was restoring pressure a lot but it definitely did the job.

So you're saying an impact wrench would be better off with a unit bigger than the pancake? Checking the compressor section on the PC site, after the 4 and 6 gal. ones are 15, 20, 25, 60 & 80.

http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2580

I guess it would come down to what your budget could allow right?

So if I'm going to fork out some dough on new equipment, I think you guys would suggest a better compressor and an air nailer vs. a cordless framing nailer? That way I could use the impact wrench with the compressor as you mentioned...are there other air tools you're using (either of you) or that you think would come in handy for fencing and possibly decks?

TG-so you think the Bigfoot is overkill for a deck? (www.bigfootsystems.com) 

Thanks again to you both for all the helpful info. :Thumbs:


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

There's nothing wrong with your pancake compressor, it just may not be robust enough for the constant daily use you hope to put it through. When you're nailing a run of fence boards you're using the air up pretty quickly. If you want a new compressor then definitely go bigger. You could always get an extra air tank but then you're lugging around more equipment. Remember, you've got to transport and set it up every time so I wouldn't recommend getting too big of one either.

Air tools: I have the small attachments kit (hand blower, tire inflator, etc.) for cleaning sawdust, etc. off my tools. Also, I have a framing nailer, finish nailer (for railings, etc.) and a brad nailer/stapler (for making custom lattice).

Re: Bigfoot. Honestly, I wouldn't bother unless a homeowner insisted they be used and they were willing to pay the additional cost (material & labour). You've got to dig a much bigger hole and then back fill the soil, tamp it, etc. I prefer to have the sonotube in soil as undisturbed as possible.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

DecksEtc said:


> t just may not be robust enough for the constant daily use you hope to put it through.


Here's what I used today.








Probably a might too robust for a nail gun, huh?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

That's a big one!

Decks- what's a controller? Maybe I know but it is just not coming to me right now.

Air Impact wrench is the way to go. It drives lags like butter. I use it for driving tapcons into concrete also. Don't buy the cheapy, mine gets close to 500 ft/lbs of torque, for about $100.00. Also make sure you get the impact grade sockets so you don't risk one exploding on you.

I would think nothing wrong with having a pancake and a nice big fatty air compressor in the aresenal. That would cover everything you would ever want to do.

The 3 biggest things I use it for are - driving nail guns, running an impact wrench and blowing dust. It is amazing how often you can find uses for blowing dust with your compressor on the job. Cleaning yourself off, blowing saw dust before staining, blowing out drilled holes in masonary before you epoxy, it goes on and on...

Screw big foots, you can make your own. Just dig out the bottom of the whole wider and insert your sono tube keeping it about a foot off the bottom and fill with concrete.


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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Mike, if you look at the PC website for the description of the C3550 and look closely at the picture you can get an idea of what I mean. Basically, the "2-port removable console" allows "remote air regulation and higher pressure closer to the job site.", disconnects from the compressor. You can then run an air hose from the compressor to the console and then another hose from the console to your tool. The console even has a hole in the metal portion of it that allows you to hang it off a post, etc.

I'm definitely going getting an impact wrench and an impact grade deep socket set before spring. I was pricing combo sets with an impact wrench (Campbell Hausfield and another one I can't remember the name of now). What brand do you use/recommend?

Agree with you on the "bigfoot". A 4' deep hole with a little extra concrete at the bottom isn't going anywhere.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

DecksEtc said:


> Basically, the "2-port removable console" allows "remote air regulation and higher pressure closer to the job site.", disconnects from the compressor. You can then run an air hose from the compressor to the console and then another hose from the console to your tool. The console even has a hole in the metal portion of it that allows you to hang it off a post, etc.


Ah, very slick, me likey!

My impact wrench is a 1/2 inch Husky, I don't know much about the brand, but when I needed it, I choose it based off the specs compared to the other ones where I was buying it. It had the highest ft/lbs of torque, about 500.

The sockets I bought a Sears. They are the flat black ones that are made for air tools, about $7.00 a piece instead of the normal $7.00 gets you a whole set.

You are gonna laugh but I own exactly 2 sockets! 1 that fits the lag bolts I use and one that fits the tapcons I use. The impact wrench is kind of a specialty tool for me, if it came welded with the lag bolt socket on it, that probably would have been fine for me.  

Hey on another note are you using drill drivers to drive your screws or impact drivers?


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2005)

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## DecksEtc (Oct 27, 2004)

Mike,

If the specs are half decent on the craftsman impact drill I'll probably get both the drill and the sockets at Sears - my girlfriend gets an employee discount (currently 15% but going up to 25% in the near future). That is unless I find the one Chris posted for a good price - I do love a good cordless tool!!! I'm not using on a daily basis but the idea of having one and not having to set lag bolts and tapcons with a rachet REALLY appeals to me.

I have both a 3/8" & 1/2" 19.2V Craftsman drills (see "discount" above). The 3/8" has done well by me for 2 years now. The 1/2" was a new purchase late last year. Re: my post in the Tools forum, I am shopping around for the stand up extension for this year.

Chris,

Thanks for the link.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

I have been using drill drivers for years to drive screws in decks - just like everybody else. Now I am a impact driver convert. You won't believe the difference in fatigue using impact drivers vs drill drivers. Instead of me going on about them and how they can benefit a deck builder here is an article that explains it all if you are interested:

http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article_cordless.asp?Site=cordless&ID=899

If you get an air powered impact wrench for driving lags and convert to impact drivers from your drill drivers you are going to feel like a new man this deck building season. :Thumbs:


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2005)

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