# More reasons why you all are silly for charging less than HD for anything you do:



## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

I've seen (in real life with my own eyes and touch) two HD jobs. Both were fences.

It was like a joke with a bad punchline

what was even worse, was hearing my buddy say "oh yeah --- and they were like $4,000 cheaper than everyone else!!!"


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

Why the hell would I buy material from a competitor?I've made the mistake before at Lowes.They switched brick on me half way through a job.It took a couple months and filling out small claims papers before they took me serious and did me right.As far as the customer was concerned I was stalling the job.After all my headaches dealing with Lowes,I got the blame.I must say though that it was my fault for using an inferior supplier.


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

The following link is a PDCA article about Home Depot Painting services
and New Image. Very good analysis I think. 
There should be similarities with all their install services.

http://pdca.org/Articles/2006/NewImagePainting.pdf


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

George Z said:


> The following link is a PDCA article about Home Depot Painting services
> and New Image. Very good analysis I think.
> There should be similarities with all their install services.
> 
> http://pdca.org/Articles/2006/NewImagePainting.pdf


Whoa That's a seriously informative article

I know what _not_ to do now....


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## tkle (Apr 15, 2006)

George Z said:


> The following link is a PDCA article about Home Depot Painting services
> and New Image. Very good analysis I think.
> There should be similarities with all their install services.
> 
> http://pdca.org/Articles/2006/NewImagePainting.pdf


Had to bookmark that one.Makes it hard to walk into a HD.Thanks


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## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

I would never hire home depot to install anything. The last job I seen was a floor. 

It was one of them contracts where the home owner does most of the work to save money, But just ends up costing them more in the end. 

They hired HD to install a linoleum floor. It took them one day to lay the sub and seal the joints then they never showed back up.


In the end my dad and I ended up hiring our flooring guys to do the job and it cost them more cause they didn't lay the subflooring right and it had to be ripped up and redone and then they had to pay for the linoleum again and the cost to lay it.


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

I know lowes will hijack you. I ask about putting a piece of linolum flooring in the entry way on my front door. The floor is only like 7 feet by 5 feet. They wanted 250 dollars to lay it down. Well to make long story short i left. Total cost would have been like 450 dollars for a little 7 by 5 floor. There SCAMMERS.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

Two things. 

HD overcharging for shoddy work is good for our business.

AND, you need to look at why people are hiring Home Depot. I don't think it's because they think they are the 'best'. I think they are hiring thme because it's convenient, and they don't know where else to turn. 

Honestly, most homeowners aren't stupid, they just don't know where to go to get good work. 

It's like when some people here ask about getting a logo designed and don't know where to go, so they hire some "internet big box logo design in a jifffy" company and end up having a piece of crap.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Chris G said:


> Two things.
> 
> HD overcharging for shoddy work is good for our business.
> 
> ...




Chris --- I will say this too .... you don't see HD doing any upscale jobs.... most of their customers prolly aren't in anyone's market anyways


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Brand name, trust, accepts credit cards, has financing, a big company that HO's can complain to, will be in business in 10 years and maybe 20, wide selection of products, open for business from 6am - 10am....

It's no wonder HO's shop there, how many of us can compete with that list?

Who needs quality and the other little stuff with a list like that? If you get a crappy burger from Mc Donalds you will go back at some point--so it's no wonder why people go back.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

dougchips said:


> Brand name, trust, accepts credit cards, has financing, a big company that HO's can complain to, will be in business in 10 years and maybe 20, wide selection of products, open for business from 6am - 10am....
> 
> It's no wonder HO's shop there, how many of us can compete with that list?
> 
> Who needs quality and the other little stuff with a list like that? If you get a crappy burger from Mc Donalds you will go back at some point--so it's no wonder why people go back.



i can't see an upscale market even considering a Home Depot installation

Oh --- only good thing about the HD is that they're waaaaaaaaaaay better than Lowes. What is up with Lowes???


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Nor can I Dirt. Their Expo format was aimed at the upscale. I think they closed all of their Expo stores in the boston market.


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## ATH (Feb 14, 2006)

dougchips said:


> Nor can I Dirt. Their Expo format was aimed at the upscale. I think they closed all of their Expo stores in the boston market.


The Expo Design store in Burlington, Massachusetts is still open ... at least it was a month, or so, ago when I was by there.


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## Bob Kovacs (May 4, 2005)

747 said:


> I know lowes will hijack you. I ask about putting a piece of linolum flooring in the entry way on my front door. The floor is only like 7 feet by 5 feet. They wanted 250 dollars to lay it down. Well to make long story short i left. Total cost would have been like 450 dollars for a little 7 by 5 floor. There SCAMMERS.


So how much _should_ that 7'x5' piece of linoleum have cost to install? I guess the guy should have driven to the store, picked up the material, driven to your house, prepped the floor, installed it, warranteed it, and followed up to collect payment for what- maybe $50? 

I don't see where charging a reasonable amount for what amounts to a "handyman" job make them "SCAMMERS".

Bob


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## Melissa (Feb 23, 2006)

dougchips said:


> Nor can I Dirt. Their Expo format was aimed at the upscale. I think they closed all of their Expo stores in the boston market.


Does Expo offer installations? I didn't think they did. We have 1 near us- and the only thing I like about it is we have a sales rep there 40 hrs week, and she's easy to work with. And they give a contractor discount (whereas our H.D. doesn't). 

We had a customer who kept referring to Expo as "The E.X.P.". :laughing:


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## Hammatime (Sep 14, 2006)

Home Depot is putting their Expo stores out of business. Last year I was doing a bathroom remodel and was working with the Expo store. Well I ordered a toilet and pedestal sink from them and I was in Home Depot that night and saw the same toilet and pedestal sink for $100.00 less all together. I called my rep at the Expo and explained what I found she investigated it and said she couldn't match the price. She said that the Depot buys in such volume that they can get it cheaper than the Expo could. That Expo is now closed.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

Bob Kovacs said:


> So how much _should_ that 7'x5' piece of linoleum have cost to install? I guess the guy should have driven to the store, picked up the material, driven to your house, prepped the floor, installed it, warranteed it, and followed up to collect payment for what- maybe $50?
> 
> I don't see where charging a reasonable amount for what amounts to a "handyman" job make them "SCAMMERS".
> 
> Bob


Bob, you are quite right. I get people all the time calling for 12 feet of fence, or putting a new handrail on a 6x8 porch, or changing 1 board on their deck. They get all upset when I politely explain that we can't do it. I always reccomend a handyman service I know off, but sometimes the customer gets mad at me. Imagine: they get pissed off at me for explaining over the phone that I can't do these small jobs, and if I did I would have to charge my men out at a minimum of $800 a day per crew. Plus materials.
2 men, 8 hour day, one at $25 and the other at $15 an hour. Add 6% vacation pay (counting statutory holidays). Then 3.8% unemployment insurance, Canada Pension plan, administration, salesperson's commission, a truck, tools, wear and tear, my foreman and his truck, my driver/delivery guy and HIS truck, paperwork, invoicing, collection costs, and of course profit.
As you say, bob, what are we supposed to charge, 50 bucks?!


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Expo did offer installs. I was not aware that the Burlington location was still open. I have shopped at expo a few times without ever making a purchase.

The question about the $450 being to much, I can install vinyl in a pinch and I could not afford to do it labor and materials for $450. You might want to check with some of the flooring installers here to see what their "basic/min charge" is.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

747 said:


> I know lowes will hijack you. I ask about putting a piece of linolum flooring in the entry way on my front door. The floor is only like 7 feet by 5 feet. They wanted 250 dollars to lay it down. Well to make long story short i left. Total cost would have been like 450 dollars for a little 7 by 5 floor. There SCAMMERS.



1- $450 for someone to come and do that install is not a bad price
2- how does an airline pilot end up with almost 900 posts on a professional contractors message board?
3- Do a search on this board and others in the business threads, see what it costs contractors to stay in business.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

mahlere said:


> 2- how does an airline pilot end up with almost 900 posts on a professional contractors message board?


He was Grandfathered :wheelchair: in! :laughing:


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

dirt diggler said:


> i can't see an upscale market even considering a Home Depot installation


welp, im eating those words today ....


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## Melissa (Feb 23, 2006)

dirt diggler said:


> welp, im eating those words today ....


What happened?


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

dirt diggler said:


> welp, im eating those words today ....


You hired HD to do your kitchen, didn't you....????


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

mahlere said:


> You hired HD to do your kitchen, didn't you....????


HAHAH:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: 


nah, ran into a past client of mine (upscale). They were telling me about a HD installation they were planning

ugh 

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

mahlere said:


> 1- $450 for someone to come and do that install is not a bad price
> 2- how does an airline pilot end up with almost 900 posts on a professional contractors message board?
> 3- Do a search on this board and others in the business threads, see what it costs contractors to stay in business.


I agree...I dont install flooring, but I do know after adding things up, it seems logical:

Big chain intalled it=more to start...
Overhead+Labor+Materials

I agree that you could have gotten a better price, but the price seems logical for _who_ installed it


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

747 said:


> I know lowes will hijack you. I ask about putting a piece of linolum flooring in the entry way on my front door. The floor is only like 7 feet by 5 feet. They wanted 250 dollars to lay it down. Well to make long story short i left. Total cost would have been like 450 dollars for a little 7 by 5 floor. There SCAMMERS.



747, without all the details, that most likely was a "minimun charge" scenario. Sure the floor is 5x7 but there isn't a contractor on this site that would install that without figuring the time involved for just getting to your house, set up, etc.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

dirt diggler said:


> Chris --- I will say this too .... you don't see HD doing any upscale jobs.... most of their customers prolly aren't in anyone's market anyways


Well that depends on the market you work out of. Here, most of the homes are in the $400,000 and up. It also depends on the job. I wouldn't hire HD to do a bathroom remodel that's for sure. But, doors/windows...The homeowners in this market tend to be professionals who really don't have the time to go searching for contarctors to change out their patio door. Go to HD or Lowes, see the door you want, tell them to send somebody to install it and your done. Now for the flip side with working class blue collars...see the door you want tell them to send somebody to install it, charge it with no interest financing or no payments for 6-12 months. How many here will do work and not get paid for 6 months to a year?


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> . Now for the flip side with working class blue collars...see the door you want tell them to send somebody to install it, charge it with no interest financing or no payments for 6-12 months. How many here will do work and not get paid for 6 months to a year?


I have a deal with Wells Fargo. They will finance my customers for 12 months with no interest. They charge me 6% of the sale price. When the job is done, I send in the signed completion and I get paid withi a week. The system works great.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

747 said:


> I know lowes will hijack you. I ask about putting a piece of linolum flooring in the entry way on my front door. The floor is only like 7 feet by 5 feet. They wanted 250 dollars to lay it down. Well to make long story short i left. Total cost would have been like 450 dollars for a little 7 by 5 floor. There SCAMMERS.


The point of all this is no matter what price Lowes / Home Depot is coming up with they are always setting the markets *lowest *price not the *highest *price.

Who's the better company to deal with? Yours or Lowes / Home Depot? If they are able to justify $450 for a 7x5 linoleum installation then you should be able to easily justify $500 or more! Home Depot is proving to you that customers are willing to pay $450, why would you want to do it for $350????????????????????

The whole point is not to do it cheaper! 

They are your competition and they suck at what they do, if consumers are willing to pay $450 to have the *worst *guy in town do the job how hard is it for the *best *company (yours) to justify $500 or more. Why the hell would anybody in business knowing Home Depot blows at installations think the smart decision is to do better work for less money?????


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Grumpy said:


> Mike did anyone stand up for home depot? Believe me when I say people are happy with thier shoddy workmanship because "when ever they mess up, they always make it right." WTF?! What logic is that?



Grumpy, refer to the thread on the guy who bilked the old people out of $700 G's. Who will make that right?


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> The point of all this is no matter what price Lowes / Home Depot is coming up with they are always setting the markets *lowest *price not the *highest *price.
> 
> Who's the better company to deal with? Yours or Lowes / Home Depot? If they are able to justify $450 for a 7x5 linoleum installation then you should be able to easily justify $500 or more! Home Depot is proving to you that customers are willing to pay $450, why would you want to do it for $350????????????????????
> 
> ...




Mike I hear what your saying but it all depends on the job. Go back a few posts and see what Terrence says about HD roof cost of $26,000 while everybody else is $8-12,000. Since HD gets $26,000 the other guys should get $27,000+??


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Stone Mountain said:


> I have a deal with Wells Fargo. They will finance my customers for 12 months with no interest. They charge me 6% of the sale price. When the job is done, I send in the signed completion and I get paid withi a week. The system works great.


Stone, do you have automatic approval with them or do you sign a contract and have to wait for WF to give approval?


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## 747 (Jan 21, 2005)

I get the point. I just thought that was a high price. Finally i wasn't refering to anyone here at the board. Check my post i have never disrespected anyone here at the board.

Ps i had a independent flooring company do it they charge me 335.00


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

TimNJ said:


> Mike I hear what your saying but it all depends on the job. Go back a few posts and see what Terrence says about HD roof cost of $26,000 while everybody else is $8-12,000. Since HD gets $26,000 the other guys should get $27,000+??


If HD is signing up customers @ $26,000 then you can sign them higher. I think in the example given $26,000 is not an example of them successfully getting all thier customers to pay this amount.

What I am saying is if HD / Lowes can regularly sign up a customer for a service at X, they are setting the low bar not the high bar because they suck. This is in response to all the times you see contractors make statements like "HD is ripping people off at X dollars for this or that." Those contractors are missing the boat. HD is showing you where the market really is. If you can sell your company as a better one than what HD offers then customers should be willing to pay even more, not less.

HD having prices you think are high is a blessing. It could be much worse, consider if they had prices that were dirt cheap *and *the work was excellent.:sad:


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

No disrespect inteded to you 747, I was just using your numbers as an example to make a point.:biggrin:


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> they are setting the low bar not the high bar because they suck.


Well, they set the low ball, i mean "bar," ---sorry ---cuz they're a retail store tryin to get a taste of contracting without fully having to jump into it

They suck at it because they do not put 100% into it.


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## Fence & Deck (Jan 23, 2006)

TimNJ said:


> Stone, do you have automatic approval with them or do you sign a contract and have to wait for WF to give approval?


No. I have to wait for Wells Fargo to approve the client. However, I won't put through the application until I have a contract. I take a $100 admin fee and the sales tax.
So far, I've lost one client. she wanted a $14,000 job, and W.F. discovered her debt to asset ratio was 110%, so they declined her.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Stone Mountain said:


> No. I have to wait for Wells Fargo to approve the client. However, I won't put through the application until I have a contract. I take a $100 admin fee and the sales tax.
> So far, I've lost one client. she wanted a $14,000 job, and W.F. discovered her debt to asset ratio was 110%, so they declined her.


The $100 fee, is it a line item charge for your customer? I use Key Bank, they offer a 6 month differed payment but not on the interest. The only way around it is to offer to cut the client a check for the interest for the 6 months....10,[email protected]%=$600 in interest in 6 months but that is the same amount that you would pay in a year= you have a better deal!


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

dirt diggler said:


> welp, im eating those words today ....



You mean previous customers chose HD over using you again:whistling


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

mahlere said:


> You mean previous customers chose HD over using you again:whistling


HAHAHAHAHHA

god id just close up shop if that happened


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Here is a piece of information. Every blowes and hd customer is surveyed and asked a bunch of information about their installation. If the contractors get bad scores they are no longer an installer. Fact, over 90% of the customers are very happy with the labor portion of the installation process. 

I am not defending either company, I am stating fact. What ever happened to the last guy who went on about facts here ?


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

dougchips said:


> Here is a piece of information. Every blowes and hd customer is surveyed and asked a bunch of information about their installation. If the contractors get bad scores they are no longer an installer. Fact, over 90% of the customers are very happy with the labor portion of the installation process.
> 
> I am not defending either company, I am stating fact. What ever happened to the last guy who went on about facts here ?


Blowes -- haha, good one

Doug that doesn't surprise me ....

I've got a couple friends who have had HD installations (one's a fence job). They RAVE about them [HD]

They [the friend with the fence job] wouldn't know leveled from plumbed & squared.... the guy's curtains (in one large window in his house) are about 2" out of level. 

He has a "flagstone patio." This "patio" is a bunch of flagstone set ON TOP of grass. He has a tool shed that is out of square probably at least a foot with his house (this probably bothers me the most whenever I see it)

And he just "raves" about his fence job.

See where I'm comin from


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

So, Dirt you are singing the Garth Brooks song "Friends in Low Places"? You let your friends shop for labor at the box stores. OMG what type of friend are you? There is a reason that they sell $20 fence panels while a good one might be $60+, you let your friend have that installed around his mobile home? 

At least they installed the flagstone over the grass instead of installing sod over the flagstone!

I can honestly say that I do not have any friends or family that have had any products installed by either place.


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

dougchips said:


> So, Dirt you are singing the Garth Brooks song "Friends in Low Places"? You let your friends shop for labor at the box stores. OMG what type of friend are you? There is a reason that they sell $20 fence panels while a good one might be $60+, you let your friend have that installed around his mobile home?
> 
> At least they installed the flagstone over the grass instead of installing sod over the flagstone!
> 
> I can honestly say that I do not have any friends or family that have had any products installed by either place.


ugh --- i WISH it was a trailer --- things'd make more sense out there

oh, the patio would look MUCH better with sod on top of it.

like i said though --- it's the shed being out of square with the house that gets to me the most. It's soooooo off.


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

out of square to the house would drive me nuts... everytime i look out the window


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

CPSpool said:


> out of square to the house would drive me nuts... everytime i look out the window


oh it does ... i mean the thing is so rigged to begin with --- but havin it outta sq---

i can't even finish this post


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Dirt, up here they have a company from NH that does a pretty good job with the sheds. They come with a flat bed and have the thing up in a few hours. The customer says where it goes. Maybe nobody ever thought about how it will look it relationship to the house....or cared


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

dougchips said:


> Maybe nobody ever thought about how it will look it relationship to the house....or cared


Well, they obviously don't care --- or else they'dda taken it back down & done over. The things sitting on 4 cinder blocks for the love of gosh


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

dirt diggler said:


> HAHAHAHAHHA
> 
> god id just close up shop if that happened



any good deals on your equipment?:whistling


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## dirt diggler (May 14, 2006)

mahlere said:


> any good deals on your equipment?:whistling


I gotta chop saw you can have ....

....

if i ever find it


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