# What are you worth?



## ecaryn (Mar 19, 2008)

Wow, some of you guys are really sensitive, even a little paranoid. First, to get all the he's out of the way, I am a she. (My location _is_ listed.) And yes this is an innocent question. I did say set aside all business info, etc or anything that would pertain to estimating. 

I seriously doubt I run as large an 'empire' as some of you say you do, so I am not competing for the same types of bids you are. That's not the point of this survey. I am just feeling a bit burned out (even though I love this kind of work) and it seems to be getting harder and harder for a small operation to be profitable, let alone grow, in this industry now. I'm trying to gauge if there is a light at the end of the tunnel. 

Most of you have been at this awhile and I was just curious on your opinions about whether this has been worth it for you. I'm a single mom with bills to pay so I am getting nervous about sticking this out if others, in perhaps better circumstances, are having a tough time at it as well. Don't mean to step on so many toes.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Since you put it that way, yes it can be tough. But worth it to a lot of us.
So for you, all you have to do is be a better run business than the people you compete with. The customer is king, or queen. You have to be consistently good, and deliver a good product. As for thin skinned CT members, we paid our dues and earned our opinions, whether anyone agrees with that or not is superfluous.


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## Chris G (May 17, 2006)

It's so hard to tell another person what is right for them without knowing them and their work. Somewhere between $30 and $60 an hour for a one woman general remodeling operation, (more for a man) is as good a guess as I can give. Kidding. At least about the man thing...the hourly can't be too far off though. That's after overhead deductions.

Like anything else, if you specialize, you make more. You can profit more by hiring day labour to do your grunt work, and marking that up, or by finding good permanent helpers that you can train to handle stuff without your supervision, and mark them up.


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## Greg Di (Mar 12, 2005)

A much more valid question to ask is why is it that if we charge the same rates on every proposal we send out, why are some customers comfortable with paying that rate and others are not? Of course, it's a complicated answer and there are a gazillion variables involved in each case.

It all boils down presenting the right client with the right project with the right presentation. Every appointment is like a blind date of sorts. Our second date is the job itself and you have to realize that not all blind dates lead to second dates for a variety of reasons.

There are plenty of people that charge a lot more than we do. There's plenty of people that charge WAY less. The products are similar, but not exactly the same, thus presentation is everything.


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## Jason Whipple (Dec 22, 2007)

ecaryn said:


> Wow, some of you guys are really sensitive, even a little paranoid. First, to get all the he's out of the way, I am a she. (My location _is_ listed.) And yes this is an innocent question. I did say set aside all business info, etc or anything that would pertain to estimating.
> 
> I seriously doubt I run as large an 'empire' as some of you say you do, so I am not competing for the same types of bids you are. That's not the point of this survey. I am just filling a bit burned out (even though I love this kind of work) and it seems to be getting harder and harder for a small operation to be profitable, let alone grow, in this industry now. I'm trying to gauge if there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> Most of you have been at this awhile and I was just curious on your opinions about whether this has been worth it for you. I'm a single mom with bills to pay so I am getting nervous about sticking this out if others, in perhaps better circumstances, are having a tough time at it as well. Don't mean to step on so many toes.


Where are you at with the business? One year in? Two? How long have you lived in the area you do business in? What is your background before entering into this? 

Your really gonna get a lot of apples and oranges to compare if we don't know a little more about you. It's all relative.


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## ameliapearn (Jun 3, 2008)

Personally I charge $125.00/day to labor for my husband. I have to up that rate tho....lugging block all day is killer on the manicure even with the big heavy gloves on. :laughing: ....he buys lunch though so I guess that would cover it. :thumbup:

It's easy enough on the pocketbook/wallet (small business, little overhead, rural area) for him to do $300/day. 

Try not to take over our area now!! LOL!! :notworthy


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

ecaryn said:


> Wow, some of you guys are really sensitive, even a little paranoid. First, to get all the he's out of the way, I am a she. (My location _is_ listed.) And yes this is an innocent question. I did say set aside all business info, etc or anything that would pertain to estimating.
> 
> I seriously doubt I run as large an 'empire' as some of you say you do, so I am not competing for the same types of bids you are. That's not the point of this survey. I am just feeling a bit burned out (even though I love this kind of work) and it seems to be getting harder and harder for a small operation to be profitable, let alone grow, in this industry now. I'm trying to gauge if there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> Most of you have been at this awhile and I was just curious on your opinions about whether this has been worth it for you. I'm a single mom with bills to pay so I am getting nervous about sticking this out if others, in perhaps better circumstances, are having a tough time at it as well. Don't mean to step on so many toes.


Well mom, you were a bit subtle about not 
being "he", one post calling yourself a 
"handy*person*" is hardly a dead 
give-away! :laughing:
No one worth talking to here is gonna
hold that against you.

Where you lost me was...
"If you don't consider overhead or any other business 
expenses, what do you personally live off of?" 
Sounds kind of more personal than business like
to me. Realize, I'm old fashioned and was raised
not to talk to strangers about religion, politics, or money.
Funny midwestern thing I guess. :laughing:

That said, now that we know what you really
meant to ask (not too artfully) spend some time
reading through some of the really great threads 
in the business section. I wish it had been so easy
to find this sort of thing when I started out!
Anyway, you'll learn more than if all of us gave you
our tax returns to study, and it will apply to
*you *and *your* business.
Stick around and share. :thumbsup:


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

davy crockett said:


> Sorry Gene,,I just re-read his post and I was a little rough.I see a young guy trying to find out if he can make big bucks in this line of work and I have made lots of mistakes and most are doing me good today so I jumped the gun. There are thoroughly excellent,guys in my area making a good living and sure I'd like to know what they make but I'd never ask. I once saw a teachers tax return in Fairfax Va and between the husband and wife they grossed $260K so I'd suggest that field. Hope this helps. I will contain myself in the future cause remodelers already have a bad rep. I'll shut up now:shutup:


NO SWEAT DAVY, thanks for the reply:thumbsup:, and to the op, welcome aboard, yes it is definately worth it, if you know how to do it right, and thats a big IF.......:shifty:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

ecaryn said:


> Wow, some of you guys are really sensitive, even a little paranoid. First, to get all the he's out of the way, I am a she. (My location _is_ listed.)....



:laughing:Just realized, this was aimed at me! :laughing:
It's just a kind of on-going crusade for
people who are slower on the up-take than
you are. :notworthy:laughing:


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## hbelectric (Oct 8, 2007)

When i did residential, $500 would get me out of bed. I wouldn't be happy unless i made a $1,000 a day. But residential and that type of money , leads to long days of busting your ass. I burned out and cut my residential to 25% of my sales.


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## Floordude (Aug 30, 2007)

Made a million, but it took a million, 60, 000 to make it. DOH!!!


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

If I don't have something going, which is has been like 5 days this year, I just drive up to job sites and say Ill work for 35, I have my license. I did that today and it worked good. Waiting for rock to get to my job needed something to do. But to answer you questionevery year I progress. Im at 3 years now and when I started I would bill out at 18 - 20 an hour thinking I was making bank, now I do 35 if I want someone to think they are getting a deal. I go 40 ish an hour. 400 a day is what I aim for but I never can keep track. I kinda lose track when I sub things out and mark things up, plus my materials markup. My goal was 100k this year, but I dunno if I'l make it. Prob not quite, but I'll go for 120 next year. I am single and 21 though so its plenty. I pay like 270 a month for rent lol.


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## Ayan Gonzalez (Jul 10, 2008)

Good question.

I make about $ 3,000,00 net or $ 1,000,000.00 a year take home after taxes.

Now I know a lot of people are probably going to post after me that I am full of it and thats fine, but for those of you that want to learn something read on.

The most common mistake made by "contractors" as they like to be called is that in fact they don't realize that they really are not contractors. They are really carpenters or supervisors.

A true contractor, does not work with a hammer. A true contractor CONTRACTS. That's way he is called a "contractor".

If you work with a hammer, your income is limited by how many times you can swing your arm. If you work with contracts, you can hire hundreds of carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers painters, laborers. to work for you.

To many "contractors" know how to build houses, but very few know how to build a business.

Your mind is like a hard drive. If you only install a word processing program, it doesn't matter how hard you try, you will not be able to balance your check book with it.

If you want to increase your income capacity, you have to load programs into your mind that increase your ability to produce.

In other words, you have to change the way you think and do things.

In construction, just like in any other business, 2% of the people make 98% of the money. The key is to find the 2% and copy what they do. 

But 98% of the people in this business would rather sit at home and watch a football game and drink bear instead of spending that time reprogramming their hard drives.

For the 2% of you that are actually going to consider this advice, here is some suggested reading materials that will help you start on your way to reprogramming your hard drive:

Rich Dad Poor Dad
The Toe of Buffet
The Millionaire Next Door
Who Moved My Cheese
Johnathan Livingston Seagull
The Art of War

These are just a few of the many books that can start you on the path to success not only in this business, but in anything you choose to do.

In closing, I would like to share a short story,

In Africa, every day, when the slowest gazelle wakes up, the first thing that comes to his mind is, "today I have to run faster than the fastest lion or I will be eaten.

In Africa, every day, when the slowest lion wakes up, the first thing that comes to his mind is, "today I must run faster than the slowest gazelle or I will starve to death.

In life, it doesn't matter weather you are a lion or a gazelle, when you wake up in the morning, you had better get running or you will not survive.

As a single mom, I am sure you have it harder than the rest. But you have an opportunity that most of us don't.

You need to be contacting the Small Business Administration and start working GSA projects. I have no doubt you will do well and will be in high demand.

As far as motivation goes, you need to see motivation in much the same way that you see food. You have to feed yourself motivation on a daily basis so you don't get week and the more you feed yourself the right motivation the stronger more powerfull you will become. 

We are living in the best country, in the best time in this earths history. 

What a shame it is to spend such a valuable resource (time) watching American Idle.

You have the best tool available to you at your finger tips every day. Just look at the dash in your car or truck. Your CD player can provide you with all the information you need while you are driving to work.

Buy some of the books I mentioned and just listen to them while you are driving. In one year you will be that much more ahead of the game.

You will be able to learn from some of the most successfully people in the world.

Good luck. :thumbsup:


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## dennis (Nov 17, 2004)

Jonathan Livingston Seagull was a business book???

I think I was seven years old when I read that. I had no idea I was grooming myself for success way back then. :thumbup:


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## Ayan Gonzalez (Jul 10, 2008)

Here are some more for you,

All of the Trump University 101 books.
The 48 Laws Of Power
Why We Want You To Be Rich
Nothing Down
Sharing The Wealth
The Coming Economic Collapse
Die Broke
The Loopholes Of The Rich
The Prophet
The E-Myth Contractor
The Disney Way
The Golden Arches
The Intelligent Invester
The X Factor
Inside The Magic Kingdom
The Richest Man In Babylon
Prophecy
Loving Trust
What It Takes To Be #1
Think & Grow Rich
The Way Of The Turtle
The Millionaire Mind
How To Become A Rainmaker
The Most Brilliant Thoughts Of All Time
Andrew Carnegie
Sudden Money
Conquer The Crash

Read these books and program your hard drive for success.


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## cueball707 (Jan 18, 2007)

I usaully bid the labor for my jobs at $500 a day. At that price I seems to get alot of jobs ; I can stay busy and make good money. Any higher and I seem to have a hard time getting customers to go for it. I have heard of folks charging $800 - $1000 a day for their labor. I also know plenty that are making $300. When you decide what you need to make a living , stick to your guns. Don't let your customers tell you your prices are too high. Act as if you are worth your rate and you can get it.


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## XanadooLTD (Oct 6, 2007)

I have to agree, this is a very difficult question to answer. There may be some days when you may make a few hundred dollars, maybe one where you make nothing. Then you stumble upon a bathroom remodel or something and make thousands in a day. Very difficult. My advice, just keep getting the work that you are getting. If your prices are to high, someone might not hire you. Your prices are low, still might not get the job. Just charge whatever you feel comfortable charging and go from there.


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## Bill (Mar 30, 2006)

Me? Sometimes I am worth a 6 pack and lunch, sometimes 200 a day, sometimes more.


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## XanadooLTD (Oct 6, 2007)

Ayan Gonzalez said:


> Good question.
> 
> I make about $ 3,000,00 net or $ 1,000,000.00 a year take home after taxes.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you. I know several people who make millions a year and don't know how to swing a hammer. They sure know how to bid the job and hire the laborers.


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## JWLinder (Jan 4, 2008)

Ayan Gonzalez said:


> Here are some more for you,
> 
> All of the Trump University 101 books.
> The 48 Laws Of Power
> ...


It's amazing that more guys in the construction field haven't gotten around to this type of thinking. You brought up a good point about being a 'contractor' vs. being a 'guy who swings a hammer.' 

I'm a huge fan of Donnie Deutsch. And he's a big proponent of the 'go against the grain' mentality. Shifting your 'traditional' thinking even the slightest bit pays big dividends. 

I've abandoned the 'middle class' market completely and created a business exclusively targeting the upper one percent. People in this arena tend to be of like-mind as it relates to many of the things that these authors write about. Doing your own thing, taking a chance, etc.


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