# Need some schoolin



## baspinall (May 11, 2006)

OK here is what I am doing. I need to run 220 out to my detached garage. This will be used by my welder and a ceiling heater. I have the specs for each. My run will be approx. 65 feet. Other than the welder and heater I have some fluorescent lighting, 110 air compressor. Nothing really running at the same time except in the winter when the heater may be on. 
In the house I have my 200 amp service panel in the basement. In the garage I currently have a sub panel being feed by 110 which is an aerial wire. 
Here is my question. What gauge wire should I run? Can I get away with aluminum? I'm thinking 8 ga.?
What breakers should I use at each panel? I have a 60, 40 & 30 breakers at hand that I can use.

Specs:

Welder is a Miller 210 - 110/220volt mig.
Amp range 30-210
Amps Input rated load Output 230V, 60 HZ, Single phase, 24.3
Max open circuit voltage DC 34

Heater: 
Voltage 208/240
Watts 4500/6000
Amps 21.6/25.0
Motor Watts 16


Thanks for any help here. Priority is to get my welder up so I can do some frame work on a hot rod I'm tooling on.

Brian


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## baspinall (May 11, 2006)

anybody out there ........


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## JBrzoz00 (Jan 11, 2011)

If it were me I would pull #4. If you ever add any more equipment youll be covered.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

baspinall said:


> OK here is what I am doing. I need to run 220 out to my detached garage. This will be used by my welder and a ceiling heater. I have the specs for each. My run will be approx. 65 feet. Other than the welder and heater I have some fluorescent lighting, 110 air compressor. Nothing really running at the same time except in the winter when the heater may be on.
> In the house I have my 200 amp service panel in the basement. In the garage I currently have a sub panel being feed by 110 which is an aerial wire.
> Here is my question. What gauge wire should I run? Can I get away with aluminum? I'm thinking 8 ga.?
> What breakers should I use at each panel? I have a 60, 40 & 30 breakers at hand that I can use.
> ...


You need atleast a 30amp for the heater and the welder is a lil diff. i've got a small popcorn welder on a 20 amp and I trip it on occasion.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

nobody is answering because I'm sure they are thinking you need an Electrician & not some schooling after reading your Post.................


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## baspinall (May 11, 2006)

mrmike said:


> nobody is answering because I'm sure they are thinking you need an Electrician & not some schooling after reading your Post.................


Sorry you feel that way but I am sure I am more than capable of pulling this off. Just needed some information. Thought that is what this forum was for. I guess you should of just moved on after reading my post instead of commenting.

What if I pull #4 and put a 40 Amp breaker at the sub. What should I put at the main the same?

Thanks


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Might better install #2 with a 100amp sub panel and be done. If your working on restoring a street rod i am going to assume your going to be using a bunch of halogen lights too. What about an air compressor? Big energy users right there, especially if you go with like an 80 gallon two stage. As said above you will find the smaller migs tend to trip a 20amp breaker if your really putting the wire through it, especially on a car frame.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

JBrzoz00 said:


> If it were me I would pull #4. If you ever add any more equipment youll be covered.


Try this


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

mrmike said:


> nobody is answering because I'm sure they are thinking you need an Electrician & not some schooling after reading your Post.................


I quit answering posts like this because after I respond, I get told by the OP (as well as every non-pro electrician here) that I'm wrong. Seems the attitude here is the electricians who went to school, took the tests, carry the licenses, go to CEU classes and do electrical work every day in order to put food on their table, clothes on their back and a roof over their head don't know anything about electrical..... all you really need to know is how to cobble it together enough to make it work. Who cares if it's safe or would pass inspection?

I guess I should start answering questions about concrete or framing or masonry since I don't do it for a living. Sorry if this sounds cynical, but that's just the way this forum has become.


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## baspinall (May 11, 2006)

Not sure what the deal is here with folks? True, I am not an electrician but that does not mean that I can not run my own line. 
480sparky - I do not plan on "cobbling" anything together. If I do something, I ask questions first. If you knew me you would also know that I would respect your professional input.
Woodchuck2 - Yeah I will be running some other equip. but not heavy duty things. Small air compressor 40 gal. single stage. No Halogen lights. It's a small one car garage.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

baspinall said:


> Not sure what the deal is here with folks? True, I am not an electrician but that does not mean that I can not run my own line.
> 480sparky - I do not plan on "cobbling" anything together. If do something, I ask questions first. If you knew me you would also know that I would respect your professional input.
> Woodchuck2 - Yeah I will be running some other equip. but not heavy duty things. Small air compressor 40 gal. single stage. No Halogen lights. It's a small one car garage.


Actually, if you've got to ask the question..you don't know how to do it.


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## baspinall (May 11, 2006)

ahhhh no kidding. That's why I ask. 

Thanks to those who helped. I will take this conversation elsewhere. Spinning wheels in this thread.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

What the deal is, is that this is a community of pros, not teachers. 

As a professional courtesy, we'll give a tip or two to another pro who's venturing a bit out of his comfort zone--but too far out, and we expect him to do what we would. That's to _hire_ someone with experience, rather than asking for a pile of free advice to DIY. 

While you would probably get a better response if you were an established member of the forum with a history of demonstrated good sense and giving as much as you take, the fact is that you're not. And you are messing with potentially dangerous stuff.

If I advise you on how to do such a job, I'm assuming liability for anything that goes wrong. I'd rather not.


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## BrandConst (May 9, 2011)

baspinall said:


> ahhhh no kidding. That's why I ask.
> 
> Thanks to those who helped. I will take this conversation elsewhere. Spinning wheels in this thread.


Stick to low volt as you indicated on your trade.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Here is the problem with your post. You are probably not reading this anyway, so this is for others who post similar questions. 


> Here is my question. What gauge wire should I run? Can I get away with aluminum? I'm thinking 8 ga.?
> What breakers should I use at each panel? I have a 60, 40 & 30 breakers at hand that I can use.


What gauge wire is based on NEC requirements. NEC requirements are based on how big of a subpanel you are installing. How big of a panel is determined by doing a load calc on all potential loads in the structure. What breakers are used are determined the same way. The breaker at the main can't be bigger than the conductors and subpanel, for example. The breakers in the sub must be sized for the load, and it is different based on what the load is, (motors,etc). Then you need to be able to calculate voltage drop. Aluminum can be used if the panel lugs are rated for aluminum. Then there are requirements for how deep to bury the cable, what type of cable to use (yes, there are more types than just "copper" and "aluminum"), and on and on. The NEC is where you need to start. Asking a question this wildly broad screams that you have no idea even where to start, and most people don't want to get involved in something this potentially dangerous.

So you see, a 12 year old retard really CAN'T do electrical.:no::laughing:


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## baspinall (May 11, 2006)

A.T.C. said:


> Here is the problem with your post. You are probably not reading this anyway, so this is for others who post similar questions.
> 
> 
> What gauge wire is based on NEC requirements. NEC requirements are based on how big of a subpanel you are installing. How big of a panel is determined by doing a load calc on all potential loads in the structure. What breakers are used are determined the same way. The breaker at the main can't be bigger than the conductors and subpanel, for example. The breakers in the sub must be sized for the load, and it is different based on what the load is, (motors,etc). Then you need to be able to calculate voltage drop. Aluminum can be used if the panel lugs are rated for aluminum. Then there are requirements for how deep to bury the cable, what type of cable to use (yes, there are more types than just "copper" and "aluminum"), and on and on. The NEC is where you need to start. Asking a question this wildly broad screams that you have no idea even where to start, and most people don't want to get involved in something this potentially dangerous.
> ...


I did stop back and appreciate your comment. I also didn't really know how to put what I wanted to know into words either.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

A.T.C. said:


> ...............So you see, a 12 year old retard really CAN'T do electrical.:no::laughing:


Yes they can.


They just can't do electrical _correctly_ and_ safely_.:whistling


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

A.T.C. said:


> So you see, a 12 year old retard really CAN'T do electrical.:no::laughing:





480sparky said:


> Yes they can.


*CLICK!*

Got it.





:laughing:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Tinstaafl said:


> ........I don't get it.............:




*CLICK!*







Didn't think so. :whistling


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Good avatar, though. . .


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

Gawd i love this place :laughing:


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