# HELP! Thermostats!! UGGE! Snarl, Growel!



## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

I have a TERRIFIC new HE gas boiler with an on demand HW component. I LOVE! it. (There is an external sensor to the boiler) On the other hand I am finished testing Honeywell Thermostats. First I had a whizzbang 7 day programmable. The readings on the face were in great conflict with the room tempreture, IE at about 68 degrees the thermostat reads anything from 72-74 (AND I'M Freezing) The installer and I spent 10 days testing it against a meat/candy thermometer and it was clearly, consistently out of wack. We installed a new simple, digital with just the up and down. The same problem persists! I phoned Honeywell and spoke with CS. I was told *FIVE DEGREES VARIANCE IS STANDARD AND ACCEPTABLE!!!* Well, not for me, its not. 5 degrees is huge on room temperature. I generally like to keep 69 and down to 67 for sleeping. Is there an other company that makes a reliable thermostat? Is it possible the problem is in the sensor and not the thermostat? I am confused. At present I am constantly resetting the temp as I am either warm or cold. This is ruining my previous acclimatized condition, thus I am constantly asking "is it cold in here, is it hot in here? HELP, winter is coming on fast!


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Any chance there is a hot water pipe in the wall cavity where the thermostat is mounted. 

Honeywell's upper end thermostats don't have a great variance between room temp and displayed temp. What model number is the Honeywell thermostat.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

if your cold turn up the heat a little :whistling


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

JTemple said:


> At present I am constantly resetting the temp as I am either warm or cold.


My wife has had that problem too, ever since she hit a certain age. Maybe Honeywell isn't the reason... :whistling


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

yea but maybe there should be an over-ride for that:whistling


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Also make sure the stat isn't near registers, return air inlets, and anything that might produce heat (like lots of electronics).

Many moons ago, I spent months tracking down an issue with a fancy new programmable 'stat (you old timers will remember 'em... with the mechanical dial and 4 AA batts....). Heat would never turn on: Until I showed up. Then everything worked perfectly.

After the fifth trip, I found the problem. The couple had one of those old instant-on tube-type TV (The kind where the tubes are always running power to stay warm, so the screen shows an image faster).... sitting right under the stat. Heat from all those tubes rolled out the back of the set, up the wall, and the stat would think it's 95° so it would never Call For Heat.

They would call me, and when I pulled up in the drive, _they'd pick the set up and move it to the other side of the room so it would be out of my way._ :blink::sad::laughing:


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

I posted on your other thread but looking the nest. My model is less than 1f out compared to actual temp. They have a new version out which works with 95% of systems now.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

I also wonder if your t-stat is sensing heat, or a draft from an external source. Not sure how accurate the meat thermometers are either.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

flashheatingand said:


> I also wonder if your t-stat is sensing heat, or a draft from an external source. Not sure how accurate the meat thermometers are either.


Not very. We was suing one to test water temp before we put baby into water. It was over 15f out which for meat I'm sure is ok but for temps below 100f ain't very accurate. I used my fluke temp gun to test the accuracy of it.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

as long as you don't go over 140 internal temp you should be fine


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

BCConstruction said:


> Not very. We was suing one to test water temp before we put baby into water. It was over 15f out which for meat I'm sure is ok but for temps below 100f ain't very accurate. I used my fluke temp gun to test the accuracy of it.



How does one sue a meat thermometer? :blink:


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

use a forkin lawyer


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Dam auto correct

Many to say using.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Real men don't use a meat thermometer, we just use our fingers....touch test


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

flashheatingand said:


> Real men don't use a meat thermometer, we just use our fingers....touch test


Real men eat raw meat


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Tom Struble said:


> use a forkin lawyer


Your new avatar, sir.


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## seanreit (Oct 8, 2012)

I have three of the Nest thermostats, can't say enough great things about them.


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

I am thinking of getting a lower end, like Honeywell's round cheapo. I am getting very suspicious of gadgets that are smarter than me. In 30 years I have not set a thermostat above 20c/68F, no program required. These programmable jobs seem unable to display correct temp at least with the system I have. I am unsure if my new high end system will accept a low end thermostat. I'll call my guys during the week to see what they think. It is not just me, two of my clients had similar systems installed, ONE WAS A MAN! and both are as confused as I am about these new thermostats and for the same reason. It does seem to be a "systemic" problem. No no hot water pipe in the wall that anyone could see. THAT was and still is my suspicion. Its getting heat from some where, me thinks. I think in my case the measuring of "all the ambient heat" is a poor idea. My installers are not electricians and I would not expect them to rewire for a new thermostat but I think if I get a cheap and dumb round one, it won't be so incline to react to every nuanced change. OR SO I THINK TODAY. Its nice today and thus the thing is turned OFF. Of and on it can do.


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

seanreit said:


> I have three of the Nest thermostats, can't say enough great things about them.


I'll still have same problem if its reading areas in the same manner as all the other high ends. I do thank you for the link and even saved it in bookmarks. I am on my second Honeywell higher end (one available to installers only) and I had the same problem with both. These things are not what one would call the "value" line and are priced accordingly. I want to be sure before I sink real money a third time.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

JTemple said:


> I am thinking of getting a lower end, like Honeywell's round cheapo. I am getting very suspicious of gadgets that are smarter than me. In 30 years I have not set a thermostat above 20c/68F, no program required. These programmable jobs seem unable to display correct temp at least with the system I have. I am unsure if my new high end system will accept a low end thermostat. I'll call my guys during the week to see what they think. It is not just me, two of my clients had similar systems installed, ONE WAS A MAN! and both are as confused as I am about these new thermostats and for the same reason. It does seem to be a "systemic" problem. No no hot water pipe in the wall that anyone could see. THAT was and still is my suspicion. Its getting heat from some where, me thinks. I think in my case the measuring of "all the ambient heat" is a poor idea. My installers are not electricians and I would not expect them to rewire for a new thermostat but I think if I get a cheap and dumb round one, it won't be so incline to react to every nuanced change. OR SO I THINK TODAY. Its nice today and thus the thing is turned OFF. Of and on it can do.


I can take my fluke thermometer and check the temps of different areas of my house. You can move just a couple of feet and temps can drastically change. I have seen people mount them to close to return ducts, to close to outlets, to close to windows, in direct sunlight, under a fan, on an external wall, too low, too high, to close to the kitchen, over ducts in walls, close to rads ect ect. I used to be a plumber and see hundreds installed wrong. 

Get the nest stat. You can get any more simple of a stat to program and setup. A 7 year old kid could do it.


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> I can take my fluke thermometer and check the temps of different areas of my house. You can move just a couple of feet and temps can drastically change. I have seen people mount them to close to return ducts, to close to outlets, to close to windows, in direct sunlight, under a fan, on an external wall, too low, too high, to close to the kitchen, over ducts in walls, close to rads ect ect. I used to be a plumber and see hundreds installed wrong.
> 
> Get the nest stat. You can get any more simple of a stat to program and setup. A 7 year old kid could do it.


It IS sheltered mid house, boiler with iron rads, no direct line to window or door and house closed up 12 hours a day 3 days a week. Those days at least, it aught to be near true. In my opinion it is too sensitive. It reads body heat from about a foot and a half away. (so do not sit near one, for sure!) And bad placement in all three cases!
A new thermostat will not help if it is a problem related to the boiler sensors. Its not that I can't program the things. All settings are 68. The face temperature is consistently out of wack. If the nest reads the same way and boiler info is incorrect I will still never know where to set the thermostat to get an average of 68. I (do know some thermostats do not work with all HE boilers and furnaces. And different systems have different requirements)


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

JTemple said:


> It IS sheltered mid house, boiler with iron rads, no direct line to window or door and house closed up 12 hours a day 3 days a week. Those days at least, it aught to be near true. In my opinion it is too sensitive. It reads body heat from about a foot and a half away. (so do not sit near one, for sure!) And bad placement in all three cases!
> A new thermostat will not help if it is a problem related to the boiler sensors. Its not that I can't program the things. All settings are 68. The face temperature is consistently out of wack. If the nest reads the same way and boiler info is incorrect I will still never know where to set the thermostat to get an average of 68. I (do know some thermostats do not work with all HE boilers and furnaces. And different systems have different requirements)


If your system uses standard contact closure thermostats then there is no secret compatibility sauce. Either you have a bad batch of thermostats or you are bat sh!t crazy.

I had thermostats that all came out of calibration and had to be calibrated...this really isn't that uncommon and thermostats have adjustability for it.

As for thermostats Honeywell and Aprilair are my go-to's.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

BCConstruction said:


> Real men eat raw meat


I love raw meat:shifty:


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> If your system uses standard contact closure thermostats then there is no secret compatibility sauce. Either you have a bad batch of thermostats or you are bat sh!t crazy.
> 
> I had thermostats that all came out of calibration and had to be calibrated...this really isn't that uncommon and thermostats have adjustability for it.
> 
> As for thermostats Honeywell and Aprilair are my go-to's.


INTERESTING! I was told these digital jobs could not be calibrated. All three could not be crazy and it seems to be only systems with the external sensor. I sent a picture of its placement to the manufacturer and they approved. Trust me, I was thinking I'm crazy but hubby backs me up. The seem to check out when the installer kept them at home for a week but then mess up installed here. I just read the ad material. Some brands say the will not work with the "new High Efficiency furnaces" I take their word on that.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Does anyone else see the dichotomy here? Woman v Thermostat?


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Does anyone else see the dichotomy here? Woman v Thermostat?


A dich what:blink:


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

480sparky said:


> Does anyone else see the dichotomy here? Woman v Thermostat?


Very thoughtful, Very helpful.
Allow me to mention the heating contractor/installers took 30 days to make the system functional and only after I was able to discover what was wrong. Those installers were all men. The job should have taken less than a week. I had to get the manufacturer to show them how they had messed up. I just resist burning gas and I do find constant fiddling burns more. How this could reflect on my sex, I can not imagine. My environmental concerns, perhaps. BUT above all, I demand things work as advertised.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

JTemple said:


> Very thoughtful, Very helpful.
> Allow me to mention the heating contractor/installers took 30 days to make the system functional and only after I was able to discover what was wrong. Those installers were all men. The job should have taken less than a week. I had to get the manufacturer to show them how they had messed up. I just resist burning gas and I do find constant fiddling burns more. How this could reflect on my sex, I can not imagine. My environmental concerns, perhaps. BUT above all, I demand things work as advertised.



How much are there stats costing what your buying? I dnt know if you mentioned or not?


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> A dich what:blink:




i think he's talkin about me:blink:


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

I am reading that you have baseboard heating? If so, you shouldn't be programing the stat, as hydronic heat is supposed to be a steady thing. don't get me wrong, if you are certain the t-stat was the culprit, sobeit. Just, wondering if inadvertent operator error may be an issue.


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## DuMass (Feb 6, 2008)

Some digital thermostats can have their on-board thermometer setting changed through the installer menu by up to 4-degrees if the displayed temp doesn't match the actual room temp. 
If you find that your thermostat doesn't have that option, then I know White-Rodgers has this feature in several of their programmable Tstats.


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## Dr Heat (Dec 25, 2008)

Is the tstat reading the wrong temp or is the boiler firing to the wrong temp?

Here is why I ask some High End Boilers have a temperature offset in the back program this allows you to tune the boiler to a space.

If this is a Vision pro 8000 or an IAQ stat there is a temperature adjustment in the back program it allows for an adjustment.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

JTemple said:


> INTERESTING! I was told these digital jobs could not be calibrated. All three could not be crazy and it seems to be only systems with the external sensor. I sent a picture of its placement to the manufacturer and they approved. Trust me, I was thinking I'm crazy but hubby backs me up. The seem to check out when the installer kept them at home for a week but then mess up installed here. I just read the ad material. Some brands say the will not work with the "new High Efficiency furnaces" I take their word on that.


That's why my first line was contact closure thermostat...not two wire digital combus stats...but even those have calibration in the installer menu. Typically external sensors are just a thermister, which can require calibration.

How about listing your equipment?


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

BCConstruction said:


> How much are there stats costing what your buying? I dnt know if you mentioned or not?


1st=$129 2nd=$89 And again, I am still suspecting a boiler sensor problem with a second one behaving the same way.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> How about listing your equipment?


 :shifty:


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

JTemple said:


> 1st=$129 2nd=$89 And again, I am still suspecting a boiler sensor problem with a second one behaving the same way.


Model number of the thermostat would tell us more about it.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

Why so much focus on the t-stat? You mentioned that you are frequently cold. If you were to jumper the stat, will the zone in question warm up? If so, then the boiler and pumps are working alright, and yes there is a stat issue. If not, then the issue lies with the equipment somewhere. And maybe, just maybe, it is an issue with a sensor .


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

beenthere said:


> Model number of the thermostat would tell us more about it.


Both Honeywell RTH4300B & Pro 1000 / I am not "always cold", I'm either being cooked or cold. If I cold figure out what 68 reads like on the face, I'd set it and forget it. 68 can read anywhere from 71-74.When I got home tonight, I ran the hot water in the nearest washroom for 10 minutes to see if it had any effect. It did not. If I can find some time tomorrow I will call both Honeywell and my installer. I could just be plain stupid and not understanding how to read the thing or how the system may effect. Presently, I am at about 68-70 because I am just comfortable in a light sweater. The thermostat is reading 74. I bought a separate thermometer today so I have an honest idea of actual room temp. I will see if I can adjust from that. I'm telling you, I'm sure its something to do with the Trinity 150 & how IT affects the thermostat because 3 of us are having the same experience.


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

The RTH series is a retail store thermostat not a contractor thermostat. The Pro 1000 is the lowest end thermostat of the Pro line. 

I don't install lower then a Pro 3000 series.


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## JTemple (Oct 20, 2012)

beenthere said:


> The RTH series is a retail store thermostat not a contractor thermostat. The Pro 1000 is the lowest end thermostat of the Pro line.
> 
> I don't install lower then a Pro 3000 series.


What would be the difference in the 3000. The reason I think it may be an external sensor problem is because the sensor is responsible for how controlled the burn is, as I understood the guys. The thermostat does behave differently depending on the weather and whether its day or night. At colder temperatures it seems to be closer to an accurate reading. Milder cold seems to confuse it. At present, I just turn the thing right off at night. That works until freeze season. If I leave it on at night, as the night gets colder the house gets hotter in spite of the fact that it was always set at 69, by 3am I was suffocating and would get up to turn it off. I can not sleep in a warm room. 

In fairness to the installers, I asked for a serious down grade after the programmable, fancier model started driving me nuts. I would pay 3 times as much for simple and consistent. 

I was thinking of going down market if a straight manual stat would work with the boiler system. I really don't need programmable because I never change the setting. (If I could get the right setting.)


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