# Why use self leveling system



## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

Ok so ice read a couple of threads regarding these self leveling systems. Im in my 10th year of tiling and really like doing what i do. I believe my work shows off my skills and all the time ive put into learning how to make something beautiful out of studs or some concrete. That being said the self leveling system really just blows my mind because now someone can come on a job and look like a pro without all the knowledge. So ego aside having the skill set to lay amazingly smooth and straight tile in all shapes and forms with out this system is there a reason i would want it to go on my tool list. Is it faster? I read in a thread it pulls the tile down but i dont see that when i play with the samples i see the opposite happeing imo. How do all the tabs come out? What is a begining cost and then the maintenance cost of the system? It just seems to me like extra work with more cost and i cant see in my mind it making things any quicker. Also note i do all my own work so its not something id just throw my guys and expect good work. So is it worth it?


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## CrpntrFrk (Oct 25, 2008)

Speed is one of the reasons. I have worked with some natural stone that was not uniform thickness. The clips helped. We don't do enough tile (although we are up to our neck in it right now for some reason) warrant some of the better systems so we just use the Lash system.


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## Peter_C (Nov 26, 2014)

I have the MLT System, but the leveling system makes up for my lack of experience. So I have heard, it helps keep tiles from settling. Typically it will pull a tile up to level them, not push down so much. 

Watch a couple of videos, and you can see how they work. Very easy to remove once the thinset is dry, although that is the point I wish I had a cordless gun for popping the plates off. Have to keep switching hands. Where I hate them is after use, they require cleanup and then reloading the stem to the plate, which is time consuming.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

It is a competitive advantage to make you faster and better. I can tell you most cheap hack installers will not be using a leveling system and some probably have never even seen one because they don't care enough to better themselves.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

For me the reasons are.

1 Largeformat with bows are able to be bent to my will.

2 i can deal with floors that have more tolerance issues with them than I can with out using them 

3 once they are locked in. adjusting the next row into plane will not cause problems in the previous rows I do not have to go back on my work.

4 I can use them to lock small tile into plane before I set them and set both at once. Think the filler strips that you have to align inside a niche if you are going to use bullnose on the inside rather than picture framing it.

I do not always use them but they are enough of a benefit in many situations that they are worth the cost. The only question that you should ask (after a thorough evaluation to understand their limits and limitations) will using these make me more money per hour than not.

It is not a matter of can you install as well with out them, you should be able to unless dealing with warped large format and then you can do a better job with them than with out.
It is a matter of which will make you more money per man-hour (block of effort over time) when installing to a standard of fit and finish that your customer expects. For me the answer often is Use them.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

As a ham fisted amature it's nice because it holds the tile in place so that you won't accidentally knock it out of alignment when futzing with another tile.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

I use Raimondi I can lay faster with them than without. For most of my jobs $60 will cover the cost of the clips which I just add to my bid.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Efficiency plain and simple. Same results as before, just less time to get there. Like Craig said, they are invaluable on warped tile. Well worth the cost imo - and I'm vested in TLS, the most expensive one.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

FullContact said:


> Im in my 10th year of tiling and really like doing what i do.


You've been 'tiling' for 10 years and don't know how to do seams? Never did a solid bench?


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## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

I know how to mud and tape seems ive just never used red gaurd as a mud for them and was curious as if it works. And i build concrete block solid benches all the time. So what is it your trying to say there buddy?


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Redguard isn't a mud. You're talking like an old schooler/mason.  
I've never built one out of cinderblocks though I've heard some do and it sounds interesting. How do you do that? Was it a time saver?

I've used mapei's cq twice and it s*cked like runny oatmeal.


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## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

https://m.facebook.com/tsctd/

Feel free to check out some of my work if your doubting what i do for a living.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Nice work. I've found corner benches are a good idea until a woman tries to sit down on them. 

did the cinderblock save you any time? serious question
(lot's of fakers in this world so don't take any offense at my attitude. Heck, you're in the trades so you too have seen it a lot).


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## Philament (Dec 9, 2014)

FullContact said:


> https://m.facebook.com/tsctd/
> 
> Feel free to check out some of my work if your doubting what i do for a living.


Pebbles on the ceiling...that must have sucked to do. 
Nice looking work :thumbsup:


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## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

Definitely not an old school mason. Ive tiled since the day i got out of the army when i was 21. I spent about 6 months as a helper and surpassed the old school guy i helped and have done nothing but tile since. Even with 10 years in the buisiness i learn something new everyday. This site helps me to bounce questions off of other installers which makes me more knowledgeable and ultimately helps me improve as an installer. I dont know how many of you are legit installers or just remodel evrything kind of guys but im noticing this site has both. And im almost positive several of you are sales reps lol. But i appreciate everyone's feedback.


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## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

If its a square or rectangle bench. I go to blocks high tbinset together fill with concrete top it off with a 4inch cap puts you right at 20 in height. I put it inside pan liner before i pack the pan. Im sure its not as fastvas the pre made benches but i can do custom sizes which is important because most showers i do are custom. Material cost is about 20 dollars and i get paid really well to build it.


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## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

Grouting it was worse than sticking it!


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## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

It takes me about 30 minutes to pick up the blocks 15 carrying them in 30 to put a bench together. I dont know what id compare it to as rather it saves time. But there solid lol. I get paid 150 for a 4 to 5 foot rectangle bench. Which if i were to go to the premade styrofoam ones it would cost about 80 to 150 justbfor the bench and id only get paid about 20 to put it in.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

FullContact said:


> Grouting it was worse than sticking it!


Did you use a hawk to catch the grout raining down into your face?


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## FullContact (May 24, 2016)

No i dont even know what it is your talking about. I just caught it with my face lol.


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## Philament (Dec 9, 2014)

FullContact said:


> It takes me about 30 minutes to pick up the blocks 15 carrying them in 30 to put a bench together. I dont know what id compare it to as rather it saves time. But there solid lol. I get paid 150 for a 4 to 5 foot rectangle bench. Which if i were to go to the premade styrofoam ones it would cost about 80 to 150 justbfor the bench and id only get paid about 20 to put it in.


Looking at it from just that particular part of the job I can understand the rationale. When you look at if from a point of view of the speed of the whole job, the other products can make more sense. For instance, if you have to wait for the masonry and mud bed to cure before waterproofing, that's days you have to fill with other things to do. Whereas some of the other products, you could have the pan, bench and walls waterproofed and ready for tile in a day, flood test and be ready for tile the next day. Neither is right or wrong, but the argument could be made that getting to the next job faster can make you more money as opposed to making more in labour on that one particular item.

Back to your original question, I'm an occasional tiler, so clips for me take one possible problem out of the equation. I really like that it locks the grid in so I don't have to go back and check that things didn't get bumped out of alignment when setting the next tile. Everyone seems to want large format tiles these days too and they're a godsend for those.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

What they ^^ all said. I like and have used the Tuscan and Prolevel clips. I think they're great, but as an aid, not a substitute for care and attention. I don't think of them so much as bringing tiles into level so much as holding them in place, once you've gotten them in place. I like them especially on large wall tiles, where you can keep moving and build much higher, faster, than without them.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

FullContact said:


> I get paid 150 for a 4 to 5 foot rectangle bench. Which if i were to go to the premade styrofoam ones it would cost about 80 to 150 justbfor the bench and id only get paid about 20 to put it in.


That's one of the reasons I don't do new stuff either though in some applications new tech is better. I've not done the blocks for benches but could think situations of doing it that way instead. 

I've used blocks for smaller stone slabs, but wasn't my call and it really should have been done differently...but the masons needed to get involved in the process and get their checks I guess. Or more likely the architect using a 'this is how they are done' method of design. 
You'd have to set the blocks in liner as far as I can figure.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

cinder blocks are also handy for curbs.:thumbsup:


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