# Mark Out Responsibility



## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi guys,

I got a call the other day from a commercial building owner I ran into a few months ago, looking for advice. He's renovating a property, and has pretty good drawings for the parking lot changes he wants to make (I met with him and saw them), and he's got all the zoning and permit approvals. But he said his curb & paving guy asked him to have someone else come out and mark out on the ground where the curbs go and where the paving starts, how far from the curbs do the parking sign posts go, etc.

My first question to him was why the contractor couldn't do that. In my trade, you get a set of prints and you're responsible for installing it, period. Why would this guy be asking for someone to come out and mark the ground for him? Is that normal in site work?

Talking to him some more, I found out he asked the firm that did the plans to come out and do the mark outs, and they threw him a big number. 

Before I open my mouth to him, what is standard practice in site work? Is it normal for the contractor to request someone to come out and mark the ground, or is it his responsibility to follow the prints?

Thanks


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

"Pretty good drawings" that is where the problem may lie, maybe the plans where not clear enough to allow the sitework contractor to confidently lay it out. if the drawings are clear, there should be no need for another person. the drawings must dimension every detail. if any decisions are subjective, sign placement etc.. i would not want the responsibility either.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Ok, then there's the issue for the contractor. While this drawing shows location-of-curb-to-building dimensions, and width of parking spaces, etc, it lacks specific detail on sign locations (it only shows a plan-view depiction of a sign located in a spot, with no curb-face-to-sign-post dimension).

I'm so used to getting a mechanical package with plan views and hook-up details. I would have thought a good set of plans would have typical signage details and such. They may exist, I don't know. My advice to the building owner will be to contact the engineering firm that did the plans and tell them they didn't provide sufficient detail for his contractors.


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

Aggie67 said:


> Ok, then there's the issue for the contractor. While this drawing shows location-of-curb-to-building dimensions, and width of parking spaces, etc, it lacks specific detail on sign locations (it only shows a plan-view depiction of a sign located in a spot, with no curb-face-to-sign-post dimension).
> 
> I'm so used to getting a mechanical package with plan views and hook-up details. I would have thought a good set of plans would have typical signage details and such. They may exist, I don't know. My advice to the building owner will be to contact the engineering firm that did the plans and tell them they didn't provide sufficient detail for his contractors.


If the building owner is confident that he can fill in some of the blanks directly with contractor, it may be easier and faster than dealing with the engineers. the contractor just wants to avoid being put in the posistion of installing a sign, and having the owner ask " WHY DID YOU PUT IT THERE". i can appreciate his concerns, good luck G


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Are they installing New curb and gutter, and new asphalt paving?

Usually the engineering company/surveyors do the stake out for the curb, they set the radius and elevations so the lot drains as per plan.

Not the type of work any site contractor I know will do.

Unless I misunderstand the scope, I'd say it is not part of the curb/paving contractors responsibility.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

The mark outs were not part of anyone's scope. The owner basically split the drawings up and went out to quote that way. I'm in the process of helping him write a scope of work to sort it all out. I'm advising him to get a number from a surveyor to do a construction survey to transpose the design into the field for the site contractor, and for the contractors to break out that number if they want to include it. There are a couple curb radius (radii, radiuses?) that they need to worry about.


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

Issue resolved. Scopes of work are in place, he took my advice on the construction surveyor, and the firm that did the plans is coughing up more detail.

Thanks!

BTW, he asked me to do the site plan for a private school he wants to build in 2010. So I got some work out of it. Who do I send the Scotch to?


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Aggie67 said:


> So I got some work out of it. Who do I send the Scotch to?


Glad to see you getting some more work out of it.

I checked this topic and it looks like genecarp out posted me 2:1 so I would have to say he gets the Scotch. :laughing:


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## genecarp (Mar 16, 2008)

tgeb said:


> Glad to see you getting some more work out of it.
> 
> I checked this topic and it looks like genecarp out posted me 2:1 so I would have to say he gets the Scotch. :laughing:


 
Would love to share the bottle withya TGEB, no fun drinking alone:clap:


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

To be fair Aggie should send
the bottle to Philly.
About half way between you? :clap:


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I _will _be in north Jersey in December......


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

i take no responsibility for staking unless it's spelled out in the contract documents. then i hire a PE/LS to do this for me....i dig ditches, not survey


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## Aggie67 (Aug 28, 2008)

You both helped, so I'll get the Scotch out. Any favorites?


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## neolitic (Apr 20, 2006)

dayexco said:


> i take no responsibility for staking unless it's spelled out in the contract documents. then i hire a PE/LS to do this for me....i dig ditches, not survey


As one of my old dirt movers used to say,
"I don't drive stakes, I drive over them." :laughing:


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## canuck (Oct 22, 2008)

I personally think if you know your site you will be there with the guys to plot it out. Once you have initally established the offsets and marks you can confidently talk to the customer. I always think from the ground up. If you screw that up evrything is f**ked.

The only advise I'd give ya is to be a proper super. *Understand what is being said to you*. Then complete you job.

That's just my opinion anyways.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Aggie67 said:


> You both helped, so I'll get the Scotch out. Any favorites?


 
I think I can speak for both Gene and I ......You don't owe us anything Aggie, that's why we all are here, to learn and to share knowledge. I have gotten back waay more than I have put in here.

We are just glad to be able to help.












Sorry Gene, I just cost you a bottle of Scotch!


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

This is something that we discuss with the owner/GC before bidding. It is hard to compete with the big boys since they have their own surveying crew. If staking is up to the contractor, we hire a surveyor and it is figured into the job.


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