# Switched receps - switch at end wiring?



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I've got some receps that need wired up and am having a hard time getting my head around how this needs to be done. Didn't know if someone could direct me to a diagram or explain this to me. I can't find anything online that shows multiple outlets. 

SR means switched receptacle.

Feed - SR - SR - SR - SR - SR - SR - SR - SR - Switch


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

...


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

You need 14/3 or 12/3 between the receps.


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## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

You could use 12-3 and use red as the power leg to the switch, obviously not connecting it to the outlets, just wire nut it at each box, just off the top of my head so beware.

Or, put the switch first and break the black wire with it.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Nevermind, sparky is here


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

480sparky said:


> You need 14/3 or 12/3 between the receps.


Remember to break the tab of the bronze side off if you are doing a split receptacle too. One side should be always hot, and the other controlled by the switch. Keep them consistent.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)




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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> View attachment 101315
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't need a red for the feed.... just between the receps. 14/2 in, 14/3 daisy-chained, and 14/3 to the switch.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

480sparky said:


> You don't need a red for the feed.... just between the receps. 14/2 in, 14/3 daisy-chained, and 14/3 to the switch.


Yeah as soon as I drew it I thought that, but crayon doesn't erase


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Well, looks like I screwed up. I ran 12/2 in for feed. 12/3 between receps. And 12/2 from the last recep to the switch. 

Is it possible if I've only got 12/2 running from last outlet to the switch? Looks like I may just have regular outlets...


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> Yeah as soon as I drew it I thought that, but crayon doesn't erase


:whistling :whistling:whistling :laughing:


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## tyb525 (Feb 26, 2013)

I think you can do that, but you will have to use the white as power to/from the switch, which may or may not be against code. I'd mark it with black tape. The switch doesn't need a neutral


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Spencer said:


> Well, looks like I screwed up. I ran 12/2 in for feed. 14/3 between receps. And 12/2 from the last recep to the switch.
> 
> Is it possible if I've only got 12/2 running from last outlet to the switch? Looks like I may just have regular outlets...


I'm sure sparky will correct me if I'm wrong, but the 12/2 from the last plug to the switch, use both of them as black wires. So in the last recep box wire nut the red to the white, go to the switch with white, and black out of the switch to the recep


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

tyb525 said:


> I think you can do that, but you will have to use the white as power to/from the switch, which may or may not be against code. I'd mark it with black tape. The switch doesn't need a neutral


I'm too slow


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Spencer said:


> Well, looks like I screwed up. I ran 12/2 in for feed. 14/3 between receps. And 12/2 from the last recep to the switch.
> 
> Is it possible if I've only got 12/2 running from last outlet to the switch? Looks like I may just have regular outlets...


Mixing wire size in the same circuit?....

Not seen it done out here.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Spencer said:


> Well, looks like I screwed up. I ran 12/2 in for feed. 14/3 between receps. And 12/2 from the last recep to the switch.
> 
> Is it possible if I've only got 12/2 running from last outlet to the switch? Looks like I may just have regular outlets...


You'll need to install a 15a breaker to protect the circuit due to the 14/3.




griz said:


> Mixing wire size in the same circuit?....
> 
> Not seen it done out here.


Unorthodox, to be sure. But not a violation.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

griz said:


> Mixing wire size in the same circuit?....
> 
> Not seen it done out here.


My bad guys. It was a typo. Its all 12 gauge. I'll go back and change it.

I'll recode the white from the switch to the last outlet. I think it might be code in some places that you have to have a neutral in the box based on a diagram I saw last night. The diagram said the code changed in 2012. This is my house so I'll just make it work this time.

I was hoping to find a diagram on how to wire up the outlets. I have never wired up switched outlets before and I'm 100% clear how its done. I'll keep looking. I don't want to have to go back and rewire 10 receps.

Thanks for all the input thus far...even the crayon drawings. True dedication right there. :laughing:


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Neutral Required


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I think this diagram explains it well enough.










As far as wiring up the receps in series goes, this shows that I am always going to have my black and white on the top. Top plug in is always hot. Red goes on brass terminal on the bottom, which would mean I need to pig tail the reds together. I assume you don't need a neutral on the opposite terminal because that side is connected?

I think I got it now.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Spencer said:


> Neutral Required


Only if the switched outlets are intended to control lighting.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

480sparky said:


> Only if the switched outlets are intended to control lighting.


What is the theory behind the code?

Am I thinking right on pig tailing my reds?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Spencer said:


> What is the theory behind the code?
> 
> Am I thinking right on pig tailing my reds?


The neutral is now required as many electronic switches now need the neutral to function.

Yes, you will need to pigtail both the reds _and_ blacks.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Just pull a red throught the EMT from the switch to the first receptacle.:whistling 

Tom


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

tjbnwi said:


> Just pull a red throught the EMT from the switch to the first receptacle.:whistling
> 
> Tom


The loony tunes that make the codes in Chicago haven't made it this far yet... :whistling


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

480sparky said:


> The neutral is now required as many electronic switches now need the neutral to function.
> 
> Yes, you will need to pigtail both the reds _and_ blacks.


Do I need to pig tail the whites and attach to one terminal or do I need to attach each white to a terminal? Does it matter? I'm guessing it does not matter and either way would work...


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

One terminal, as long as you don't break off the wrong tab. 

Don't worry, if the loonies haven't made it there in the last 100+ years, I don't think they'll ever make it. 

Tom


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Spencer said:


> Do I need to pig tail the whites and attach to one terminal or do I need to attach each white to a terminal? Does it matter? I'm guessing it does not matter and either way would work...


No need to pigtail the whites until you adopt the 2014 NEC. I hear it will require all conductors to be pigtailed.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

480sparky said:


> No need to pigtail the whites until you adopt the 2014 NEC. I hear it will require all conductors to be pigtailed.


Ah, the wonderful logic of adding even more places for potential intermittents.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

480sparky said:


> No need to pigtail the whites until you adopt the 2014 NEC. I hear it will require all conductors to be pigtailed.


Any guess/stab/explanation of that logic.... just curious...TIA


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Any guess/stab/explanation of that logic.... just curious...TIA


Like most of the new stuff in the NEC: God only knows and he ain't tellin.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

480sparky said:


> Like most of the new stuff in the NEC: God only knows and he ain't tellin.


Probably change box fill calcs for all that extra pigatil.....:whistling


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Probably change box fill calcs for all that extra pigatil.....:whistling


If the conductor does not leave the box it is not counted. 314.16(B)(1)

Tom


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> If the conductor does not leave the box it is not counted. 314.16(B)(1)
> 
> Tom


Just sayin/guessing.... NEC will fijnd some need to probably CHANGE it



(Edit: Come to think of it, there is no max length to your leeds in the box is there?)(Maybe we'll have to start counting wirenuts LOL)


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> Just sayin/guessing.... NEC will fijnd some need to probably CHANGE it
> 
> 
> 
> (Edit: Come to think of it, there is no max length to your leeds in the box is there?)(Maybe we'll have to start counting wirenuts LOL)


 A loop gets counted twice under 314.16 (B)(1), once you hit the box volume, I guees that would be the max. 

Tom


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## BThomas (Apr 21, 2013)

I was taught to always pigtail a long time ago. The reason is that a device failure will not break the connection to following devices.
Bill T


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

BThomas said:


> I was taught to always pigtail a long time ago. The reason is that a device failure will not break the connection to following devices.
> Bill T


That's what my sparky said too


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

BThomas said:


> I was taught to always pigtail a long time ago. The reason is that a device failure will not break the connection to following devices.
> Bill T


Yes... I suppose that is a true statement.... but I would ask first, how often do you see a "device/receptical" failure (assuming you're not back stabbing..... and two, how difficult is that to find...

AND any unecessary splice is always a weak point.... and often difficult to find.

I don't believe in extra splices and mostly always use the recepticle.... but I'm a GC.

I'll be interested if some of our sparkies extend their experience/expertise/opinion.

Best


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Pigtails for 30 years. To the best of my knowledge not a single failure. I have seen a few device failures, all but 1 was a back stab failure. The other the recpticale just fell apart.

Tom


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

MTN REMODEL LLC said:


> how often do you see a "device/receptical" failure


All the time. It isn't nearly as much as back stab failures (which is #1) but old receptacles tend to get brittle and break, get abused, etc.


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

tjbnwi said:


> Pigtails for 30 years. To the best of my knowledge not a single failure. I have seen a few device failures, all but 1 was a back stab failure. The other the recpticale just fell apart.
> 
> Tom


My opinion stands corrected by your experience.

(Still am somewhat skeptical... not by your experience/opinion, just still seems a splice is not as reliuable as a device pass-thru made up tight on the recep?)

(I guess I've never encountered a device/recep failure that wasn't burned crisp and identifiable from a plug in short, also I've seen several bad back stab arcing/bad contact..... and pretty many loosey, untight wire splices when they get pushed back in the box.)

Made up correctly, I do have confidence in a wirenut connection... guess I just think it is a very likely place to be made up not tight and be a more difficult problem to locate (neutral or hot).

But I do respect your experience/specialized pro opinion

Best

Best


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## MTN REMODEL LLC (Sep 3, 2010)

rselectric1 said:


> All the time. It isn't nearly as much as back stab failures (which is #1) but old receptacles tend to get brittle and break, get abused, etc.


RS..... My opinion stands corrected by your opinion/ pro experience also.

(Just seems I too see plenty of beaten up receps, usually blattently obvious, and not usually/often affecting their pass-thru (just the plug-in contacks).

You Sparkies will soon convince my opinion differently....

Thanks


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I have replaced receptacles that are face shorted. I don't consider that a device failure. Something else caused the issue.

Tom


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