# Square stone corners



## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

_[Moderator note: This was originally a response to Bytor's thread in the Masonry Picture area. Copied here at the Captain's request.]_

Ok, I give up lol. Seeing your corners like that made me realize we need to do a better job defining them. Any tips for squaring out corners like you have shown? 

I'm taking my tracer and just driving down both planes of the 90 where ever I can find some material to grab. I feel like I end up with too many chisel marks on face of the stone rather than the line down the corner... any advice?

***actually if a mod wants to prune this into a new thread, that's cool too. I'd love to hear from other guys as well!


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Hmm, I don't know why no one's replied yet, we have plenty of stone guys around. I think the corner you have looks fine. If you want to get a look more like Bytor's, I would suggest the following.
1: With the type of stone you have, a pitching tool may work better than a tracer. You may also want a small point chisel, maybe 3/8"
2: If there is any way to manage it, hang a string line for a guide. There's nothing better for marking, repositioning, marking again, etc. Plan on setting the stone up on the wall at least four times.
3. Set your corner line a bit farther into the stone. This will give you that pillowed effect and get rid of tool marks on the finished face. (You will be knocking the marks off every time you cut closer to the line.) 
4. Set the stone in place, mark one side, cut that side including chasing it back flat to where the finished corner will intersect, set back in place, mark other side, repeat. If you look up "drafted margin" you should find some images or illustrations. This is what you are trying to accomplish, only with an 1/8-1/4" margin rather than a larger one.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

That corner looks pretty good, some chisel marks on it ya. Looking at your layout, I try not to have the backs of my stones higher than the fronts.

The top picture with the right stone. The left corner of the stone has a hook in it, try straightening it out the whole top. If you do that all the way around every stone(make the "face" straight) you will have a much cleaner finished product.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Looks like a cool job. Nice looking start!


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Like these corners?


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Couple hints. Although it a tough topic to describe in detail on line. ( I could show you in an hour)
Strings are your friend.
Don't get too paranoid about getting each corner absolutely perfect, You want a corner that is "overall" a corner. Not a bunch of perfect corners stacked up. 
What you have in the pic looks great.
Sometimes I do what I call "fake-a-corner" when you cant get the whole face aligned with the corner, just make a corner that may only return an inch yet the face of the stone still protrudes beyond the string. Your eye will see the sharp corner and not the bulge in the face.
Confused yet?
It's more of a "feel" or "eye" for it. Looks to me like you are doing fine.


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks for the detailed post Bill. Excuse my terminology, I’m using a “hand set” rather than a tracer (https://trowandholden.com/store/agora.cgi?p_id=0079). I have a smaller one and a lager one, then the off-set version as well. The smaller one gives me better control for sure. 

I looked up ‘drafted margin’… I seem to naturally do that to each piece to get better projection on the face of the stone. I wasn’t driving that deep into the stone as shown by some of the images I saw though. Perhaps your tip on setting the line deeper is key. I’ll try that. 




artisanstone said:


> Hmm, I don't know why no one's replied yet, we have plenty of stone guys around. I think the corner you have looks fine. If you want to get a look more like Bytor's, I would suggest the following.
> 1: With the type of stone you have, a pitching tool may work better than a tracer. You may also want a small point chisel, maybe 3/8"
> 2: If there is any way to manage it, hang a string line for a guide. There's nothing better for marking, repositioning, marking again, etc. Plan on setting the stone up on the wall at least four times.
> 3. Set your corner line a bit farther into the stone. This will give you that pillowed effect and get rid of tool marks on the finished face. (You will be knocking the marks off every time you cut closer to the line.)
> 4. Set the stone in place, mark one side, cut that side including chasing it back flat to where the finished corner will intersect, set back in place, mark other side, repeat. If you look up "drafted margin" you should find some images or illustrations. This is what you are trying to accomplish, only with an 1/8-1/4" margin rather than a larger one.


JBM- thanks! I will square that hook out... good eye.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

After I re-read Artisanstone's post I learned a new term. Seems my "fake-a-corner" is really a drafted margin. :thumbup:


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

CJKarl said:


> Couple hints. Although it a tough topic to describe in detail on line. ( I could show you in an hour)
> Strings are your friend.
> Don't get too paranoid about getting each corner absolutely perfect, You want a corner that is "overall" a corner. Not a bunch of perfect corners stacked up.
> What you have in the pic looks great.
> ...


Yeah CJ, that pict is EXACTLY what Im talking about! I think I get what you are saying... let the face of the stone take its natural course and just define the return so it stays square?

I was tempted to score with the grinder and then feather off from the smooth cut but I havent used a power tool on this job. Ima try and keep it that way :sad:


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

Using a saw or grinder is OK in my book BUT, don't think you can saw or grind ANY part of the stone that will be exposed. I don't care how good you think you can dress or distress a sawn face. It will always look sawn or sawed. (not sure of the proper tense)
I use the saw to occasionally back cut stuff that I can break off, but NEVER a face.


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

CJKarl said:


> After I re-read Artisanstone's post I learned a new term. Seems my "fake-a-corner" is really a drafted margin. :thumbup:


I always called it 'facing' a stone, but now I can sound all professional about it:thumbup:

This isnt a project where corners will be super visable... hell they dont even need to be plumb, but I wanted to give it a try. Here is some more info on the job:

Picts are Before, (2) 3d design, (3) construction 

They changed the stone from NE round to ruff square and rec...


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

I'm no designer, but I would try for smaller/shorter stones on a short wall like that. Of course if you have extra time to do it. You still need to make money.
Just my opinion.


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## CJKarl (Nov 21, 2006)

With the large faces you end up with a bunch of zipper joints. Some people don't care. They just want stone and any stone looks great to them. The customer is always right.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Man,I gotta tell ya Capt. 

Those renditions are life like to say the least. Very impressive design options you have :thumbsup:


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks Superseal! I'm grateful to have the ability to produce these in house. Aside from a sales tool, more importantly, they are to scale within 1/16". I can switch from photo-real to line drawing and they become my blueprints. It does however put a lot of pressure on me to build to these expectations. I build all my projects myself with one helper which keeps things in control.


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## stonecutter (May 13, 2010)

artisanstone said:


> Hmm, I don't know why no one's replied yet, we have plenty of stone guys around. I think the corner you have looks fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks stonecutter. The handset I’m using has a flat square tip. There are actually 2 usable edges and its intended to be used at an angle. Holding it straight would break the carbide tip. We might be talking about two different things?… Here is a pict of the chisel:


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## scraigc (Aug 2, 2010)

Captainsls said:


> Thanks Superseal! I'm grateful to have the ability to produce these in house. Aside from a sales tool, more importantly, they are to scale within 1/16". I can switch from photo-real to line drawing and they become my blueprints. .


:thumbup: :clap:

What software program are you using? looking for software for design and rendering. Thanks


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

You will need a very strong computer plus Sketchup Pro8>3DStudioMax>Vray1.5>Photoshop

Let me know how you make out!:thumbsup:


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## Captainsls (Nov 8, 2007)

Here is an update... Once I move on to the grill surround I will have some taller corners to play around with and report back :thumbup:


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