# Demolition time required....



## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

I'm working on first time personal project and am trying to determine how much time allotment I should consider for just breaking up, not removing a (60ish year old) 4" basement concrete slab with a #25 - #40 demolition hammer. Approximately 600 sq ft. Rough sq/ft per hour or total hours would be a huge help!!


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## HW&R (Feb 11, 2017)

I believe if you took some time to read through the forum, you would notice that there is a sister DIY site for those that are not contractors and looking for help tackling a personal project.

That being said, even a 40lb demo hammer is going to go incredibly slow through a 4" slab. It's too difficult to give you a sq/ft per hour but you will be wishing you had a larger jackhammer.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

I appreciate your opinion. I will take it into consideration upon purchasing or renting required equipment, your assumptions that I am a DIYer are not required, as a matter of fact I did take some time to read. To the contrary of your thoughts I am a licensed insured active contractor.. the fact that this is a personal project and a field that I've had no particular interest in performing professionally personally should be of little significance.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

OknickYo said:


> I appreciate your opinion. I will take it into consideration upon purchasing or renting required equipment, your assumptions that I am a DIYer are not required, as a matter of fact I did take some time to read. To the contrary of your thoughts I am a licensed insured active contractor.. the fact that this is a personal project and a field that I've had no particular interest in performing professionally personally should be of little significance.


If you're actually a contractor you know well that some concrete buts up like a shortbread cookie, and some is invincible. 

Bust up 1 square foot then multiply by 600.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

This is very true, and well this is the latter of the two! As I was saying though, not my field of expertise.. as I was simply looking for advice from a professional in or near this particular field.. was just trying to get an idea.. wanted to buy a new demo hammer, but renting a large jack seems to be the better option now.. I do appreciate any non critical opinions though.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

To many variables. 4" concrete. 2000psi, 4000psi? Lots of aggregate, minimal aggregate? Air infiltrated, fiber infiltrated, normal? 30 years old, 10, 5?


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

I would just rent a 90 pounder and compressor and knock it out. One guy on the hammer and another loading the chunks.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I've seen some of that old concrete that makes diamonds look soft.

quit it with them little chipping hammers...

if you can't get a 90# hammer in there at least use a Bosch Brute...

time is also going to depend how tough the operator is.

call the folks at dexpan or ecobust to see if they can help.

since you are a contractor things not generally in your wheelhouse are subbed out....


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## sunkist (Apr 27, 2012)

OknickYo said:


> This is very true, and well this is the latter of the two! As I was saying though, not my field of expertise.. as I was simply looking for advice from a professional in or near this particular field.. was just trying to get an idea.. wanted to buy a new demo hammer, but renting a large jack seems to be the better option now.. I do appreciate any non critical opinions though.


So any critical opinion your are not interested in ?.

Why post here if you only want to hear answers that suit you.

There are some clever and very experienced guys and girls on this site and you should to listen and be open to all.

Some of us have been there done that, before you were born.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

Critical was the wrong word. There seems to be a few people that state "its a place to talk about anything without criticism" and it seems those people like to critisize.. i impropriety used critical as criticism.. so anyone feel free to grind it in how im illiterate along with how I don't know what I'm doing.. I do reallyappreciate genuine help though


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

I said 60 year old.. pressure i have no idea.. medium aggregate.. I don't know about any of the other aspects.. a normal 1962 basement slab i suppose!


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

What is the status of your project? Quote? Contract Signed?

Make sure to add your overhead and profit including insurance and WC.


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

Why would you want to remove it? Are you replacing it?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Another option if you like work. Slice it up with a diamond saw into manageable chunks (maybe 6'X6'), then pry a chunk up with a 6' digging bar and bust it with a sledge. Wire mesh is a b*tch either way. I could get it cut and busted in a day if it's 4". Getting the mesh cut and hauling out can be slow.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Bottom line, there are way too many variables for anyone to give you a meaningful answer, especially sight unseen. 

If you're a general contractor who hasn't done this sort of thing before, you ought to have a sub or two you've used in the past who would be much more familiar with such a situation in your area than a bunch of guys on the internet from all over a couple of countries. 

Or you're just a beginner. No shame in that, but do yourself a favor and call in someone local who does that sort of work. There's more to it than just renting a hammer for a day.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

griz said:


> time is also going to depend how tough the operator is.


And having the right hearing protection.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

If you don't know what you have, use the biggest tool you can. The penalty for using smaller tools is pretty large.


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Rented a electric jack hammer to do this , 70# did in a hour. Cut first , was 4" hard concrete. By myself.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

350 should cover it.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

*Status.. so much to do nothing gets done..*



rselectric1 said:


> What is the status of your project? Quote? Contract Signed?
> 
> Make sure to add your overhead and profit including insurance and WC.


So.. I'm a generally (95% of the time) new home contractor mostly subbing trades and occasionally doing the framing.. this is a personal project on my personal home.. sewer kept backing up, broke up the floor drain to the main, original clay ground water drainage is hooked to sanitary line.. plan... break whole floor, check main height availability to lower basement for legal head room, underpin foundation (sub out), re-plumb whole house, update draintile, add block drains, insulate and poly floor, add radon vent... all to add 600 finished sq ft.. plumbing and drain tile should be updated regardless.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

*As I said to another...*



Tscarborough said:


> Why would you want to remove it? Are you replacing it?


So.. I'm a generally (95% of the time) new home contractor mostly subbing trades and occasionally doing the framing.. this is a personal project on my personal home.. sewer kept backing up, broke up the floor drain to the main, original clay ground water drainage is hooked to sanitary line.. plan... break whole floor, check main height availability to lower basement for legal head room, underpin foundation (sub out), re-plumb whole house, update draintile, add block drains, insulate and poly floor, add radon vent... all to add 600 finished sq ft.. plumbing and drain tile should be updated regardless.


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## jlhaslip (Dec 31, 2009)

Better find out the elevation and slope to the city or septic connection. 
I would be very dismayed to do all this work to find out that lowering the basement floor will not allow for drains to run properly to the outlet or the city connection.
Aside from that, there is some good advise up above this reply. 

I have done this same task on a Commercial Project where the concrete was half the age of what you are dealing with and it took a lot of work to break it up and haul it out of the basement. We took about a month and a half (6 man crew) to do 6,000 sq ft (approx) using 2 - 90 lb hammers and a conveyor to lift the debris. Dug the basement down 2 feet in the process. Underpinned the footings and repoured the slabs.

As to the tools: Go big or go home is all I can say.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

As far as lowering the floor, jlhaslip has it right. Check the height of your sewer lines before you tear out the whole thing.
If the drain lines are too high, but you still want to replace the perimeter tile, I would just jackhammer out about 10" around the perimeter.

As far as you not liking critical input. It's going to happen and what you might think is critical, could be good advise. And it may be good advise that is critical.

The way you worded the thread made me think you were a DIY also. 

For tear out, I wouldn't cut a thing. Rent a big jackhammer. 2 people, 1 day. 2 people so you can trade off.
We stopped cutting inside concrete. Just go after it with the jackhammer. It's cleaner and you save alot of time, by not cutting it. 

Getting the concrete out of the basement, that's another story. That will be 2 people 2 days. Or 1 hard day. Really depends on what you are doing with it. 
I recommend getting mason buckets. They are super strong and about half the size of 5 gallon buckets. You don't need to carry anymore than that anyway.

My time estimate would work for me. That doesn't mean everybody will do that. Some may be faster, some slower. Depends on the person.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

builditguy said:


> As far as lowering the floor, jlhaslip has it right.


Thank you, he does have it right, I know I can go at least 10 inches based on the depth leaving my house as is.. in talks with the city about their depth, probably going to replace water in and waste out in the process anyway looking at casts and galvanizeds life span... I did have a post about misusing critical for a synonym of criticism for what I felt was an attempt at belittling me for not having the expert knowledge in this particular field..I appreciate your input! I do have a window conveyor for debris removal and my work ethic has never been in question! Hell.. if I can do the full 15" I want... (+2 for foam + 3ish for rock)... I'm debating trying to get a dingo down there!! That much crappy clay is looking like 33+ ton... the bore test puts the water table far enough away to obtain the 8' ceiling height I'm attempting to achieve!

Side note... normally I'm relatively eloquent with "phrasing" as I've been told I could sell salt to a slug while I'm pushing ice on an Eskimo. Lmao


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

Sawdust?? Do you mean man glitter? If there is one thing I'm efficient at it would be making a mess!


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

JBM said:


> 350 should cover it.


I feel like there is humor or sarcasm here that I'm not picking up on.. which is cool.. haha, enlighten?? You wanna come do it for 350 or that's the hours I'll need.. lbvs- ps. Congrats on another ring! Predicted it, didn't expect it!!


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

hdavis said:


> And having the right hearing protection.


I should have probably taken that advice about a decade ago!! I still have great hearing... but if I'm in a load room I can't distinguish one conversation from the next.. I did listen to an aging flooring installer about getting a great set of knee pads early in the game thought. That was great advice looking at my similarly aged colleagues trying to get up!!


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

OknickYo said:


> This is very true, and well this is the latter of the two! As I was saying though, not my field of expertise.. as I was simply looking for advice from a professional in or near this particular field.. was just trying to get an idea.. wanted to buy a new demo hammer, but renting a large jack seems to be the better option now.. I do appreciate any non critical opinions though.


I bought one because I rented one enough times to pay for a new one...then I never used the damn thing, go figure.



griz said:


> I've seen some of that old concrete that makes diamonds look soft.
> 
> quit it with them little chipping hammers...
> 
> ...


The substrate is a killer too, often the surface underneath the concrete absorbs the impact.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

Inner10 said:


> The substrate is a killer too, often the surface underneath the concrete absorbs the impact.


..... yes... haha..... (currently wet, leaching out now that it has somewhere to go) nice shock absorbing clay!


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

OknickYo said:


> I feel like there is humor or sarcasm here that I'm not picking up on.. which is cool.. haha, enlighten?? You wanna come do it for 350 or that's the hours I'll need.. lbvs- ps. Congrats on another ring! Predicted it, didn't expect it!!







Standard answer around here for how much anything costs.:thumbsup:


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

Lettusbee said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xCAs08QPNw
> 
> Standard answer around here for how much anything costs.:thumbsup:


Ahhhhh. Well if I don't get shunned away I may have to plagiarize that! My career favorite has been "eeeh. That shouldn't take more than an hour".... 3 days later


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

OknickYo said:


> Ahhhhh. Well if I don't get shunned away I may have to plagiarize that! My career favorite has been "eeeh. That shouldn't take more than an hour".... 3 days later


you're not shunned away....

suck it up and grow some skin....:thumbsup:

you've stuck it out this long....don't quit now...


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

griz said:


> you've stuck it out this long....don't quit now...


So up here in the Nordic we get a few west coast slum, I can't honestly say how many times I've heard the phrase "that's not how we do it in California".... not to mention how many products cause cancer according to you guys! Loved San Diego and L.A. Too. Well Orange County...


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

OknickYo said:


> So up here in the Nordic we get a few west coast slum, I can't honestly say how many times I've heard the phrase "that's not how we do it in California".... not to mention how many products cause cancer according to you guys! Loved San Diego and L.A. Too. Well Orange County...


you're describing northern mexico....

im like two days north of that chit....

now calidecks and andy are right in the thick of it...

i'm more southern oregon...:whistling:laughing:


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

OknickYo said:


> So up here in the Nordic we get a few west coast slum, I can't honestly say how many times I've heard the phrase "that's not how we do it in California".... not to mention how many products cause cancer according to you guys! Loved San Diego and L.A. Too. Well Orange County...


Kind of funny ,Friday had a plumbing inspection, and chatting with the inspector and was telling of things he had seen, once guy told him "Well that is how we did it in Cali and he told him well that is not how we do it in Montana" Was a really messed up job.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

rustyjames said:


> I would just rent a 90 pounder and compressor and knock it out. One guy on the hammer and another loading the chunks.




+1

Especially if there is wire in there...I really dont like the electric hammers. They are heavy and underpowered IMO a pneumatic hammer cuts concrete like butter. 

Ear muffs, good gloves, glasses and a face shield are my recommendation 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Windycity said:


> +1
> 
> Especially if there is wire in there...I really dont like the electric hammers. They are heavy and underpowered IMO a pneumatic hammer cuts concrete like butter.
> 
> ...


I will have to say the electric one I just rented the other day worked very good. Worked as good as any air one I have used. And only ended up costing me $50 to use.


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## Windycity (Oct 3, 2015)

Randy Bush said:


> I will have to say the electric one I just rented the other day worked very good. Worked as good as any air one I have used. And only ended up costing me $50 to use.




Its been a while since I rented but if I remember the electric was like 60 a day compared to 100 for the compressor/hammer so I usually opt for the compressor. The electrics are ok for thinner/easier to break concrete but just dont have the nuts for good reinforced concrete. Sadly you dont know what type of concrete it is til about an hour into demo so i plan for the worse. 

One time we were breaking out a concrete patio to install a brick patio. The concrete patio was cracked and heaved all over the place so I thought the concrete was weak and was going to be easy to break up. Ha boy i was wrong. Tons of wire and rebar and a 6-8 inch thick slab...Fooled me and i never expected it to take that long with my 2 guys. By 10 am I knew I needed to rent a compressor and hammer so now I always figure that into my bid regardless 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kapena (Aug 20, 2004)

OknickYo said:


> ... I'm debating trying to get a dingo down there!! That much crappy clay is looking like 33+ ton...


Hopefully, that clay is not the kind that sticks better than glue to the bucket or shovel. I remember a job where it was way more difficult to get that chit off the bucket or shovel than to actually dig it.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

Don't tell the EPA (if it still exists by the time this happens) but I'll end up rubbing a little diesel on everything if that's the case!


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Being an eloquent speaker is one thing. Typing it out in a short paragraph, that people who don't know you, it another thing.

Emotion doesn't convey though the internet. For a professional writer, yea, but for me, a plain old carpenter. Nope.

Sounds like you have a plan worked out. Having a conveyor is a huge asset.


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## OknickYo (Feb 11, 2017)

builditguy said:


> Sounds like you have a plan worked out. Having a conveyor is a huge asset.


The problems that come up even when you have the best laid out plan when working on personal projects is the fact my mind goes to "or I could do this" and when it's a minor upcharge for material because all the labor is self provided I seem to end up with 15+ different plans to approach the country with for permits with no idea which one to pick!.. I've always got an opinion or single idea for other projects but on my own chit I can never just pick one and go with it...


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Working in a mud puddle is costly... make sure you dewater the sub floor first with a working sump pit & pump. make sure all gutters are clean and functioning, add extensions as needed to down spout kick outs...

Your plumber might prefer a solid concrete floor sections to work off of...

Under pin first then plumb for less damage to new plumbing..
"rat hole" pea rock for fill around plumbing and tile lines

The floor saw, excellent idea, especially on the first section.

A johnson bar (6') to lift the slab, might eliminate the need for jack hammer if no steel.... either way, elevated crete breaks a lot faster....
I've move a lot of slab with anchor bolts and chain and a small skidder or even a two man pipe handle, think RR tie carrier.


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