# Anyone done this before?



## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

I'm pretty comfortable with leaving it. And I'll go hammer it all out if it doesn't work.


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Anthill said:


> I'm pretty comfortable with leaving it. And I'll go hammer it all out if it doesn't work.


Might as well go hammer it out now, the flex in the ABS is going to allow the lower set of bolts to loosen up in fairly short order once the water closet is set, and the leak will be on the lower of the two flanges. I've been around this trade for 20+ years and that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen, knowingly installing a premeditated leak that might cause thousands in water damage before it is detected.

Another prime example of why it is a licensed trade to begin with.


----------



## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Why not get a cast to PVC adapter and plastic lead seal it to the cast, then a 3" piece of PVC into a new flange


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Anthill said:


> I'm pretty comfortable with leaving it. And I'll go hammer it all out if it doesn't work.


Why wait?


----------



## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Anthill said:


> I'm pretty comfortable with leaving it. And I'll go hammer it all out if it doesn't work.


Anthill, I understand that this is difficult. But don't let your pride get in the way of doing what is right. Just take a minute and think it through.

No one likes to admit their wrong, especially to a customer. But, I think your customer will appreciate your honesty.

Also, take solace in the fact that it is impossible to know everything about everything. That is why when there is great risk involved it's best to sub that task to an specialist, in this case a plumber.

If you decide to leave as is, it would be like cutting your nose off to spite your face. 

Do great work.


----------



## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

Anthill said:


> :thumbup: thanks bud! I'll need some support!


If you want support for doing something 100% wrong, go back to Kindergarden.

Every pro on here has told you it will leak, but as long as you feel confident, what do we know.

Good luck.


----------



## Anthill (Mar 23, 2013)

KillerToiletSpider said:


> Might as well go hammer it out now, the flex in the ABS is going to allow the lower set of bolts to loosen up in fairly short order once the water closet is set, and the leak will be on the lower of the two flanges. I've been around this trade for 20+ years and that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen, knowingly installing a premeditated leak that might cause thousands in water damage before it is detected.
> 
> Another prime example of why it is a licensed trade to begin with.


There, this is what I've been looking for- a reasonable explanation as to why it would fail. It makes sense to me that the lower bolts COULD come loose. Therefore I just might try to repair it....... Its no problem to me to be honest to the customer. Thanks for the wisdom


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

Anthill said:


> There, this is what I've been looking for- a reasonable explanation as to why it would fail. It makes sense to me that the lower bolts COULD come loose. Therefore I just might try to repair it....... Its no problem to me to be honest to the customer. Thanks for the wisdom


It's not could, it's when, Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, is even worse than poly vinyl chloride when it comes to changes in temperature, it will swell and contract with even a 20° change in temp (measured in Fahrenheit), on a summer day that will happen every time the water closet is flushed.


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

Anthill said:


> never seen it done before but thought it was kinda clever. Hope it works


It's only clever if it works.


----------



## jferrie (Jul 30, 2014)

It's wrong, but if the floor is solid and the toilette doesn't shift at all it probably won't leak. See no reason why it would honestly. Absolutely pour concrete into the void to stabalize everything.

That being said be absolutely clear with your client that it's a frankenstein job, do NOT offer a guarantee and suggest he should probably rent a jack hammer and do it right.

I don't think the abs will fail, the real risk is the cast iron will but if he doesn't want to dig it up it's a good solution.. again do not guarantee anything


----------



## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

jferrie said:


> It's wrong, but if the floor is solid and the toilette doesn't shift at all it probably won't leak. See no reason why it would honestly. Absolutely pour concrete into the void to stabalize everything.
> 
> That being said be absolutely clear with your client that it's a frankenstein job, do NOT offer a guarantee and suggest he should probably rent a jack hammer and do it right.
> 
> I don't think the abs will fail, the real risk is the cast iron will but if he doesn't want to dig it up it's a good solution.. again do not guarantee anything


Coming from a ...

(battle isn't worth the glory).

.,,


----------



## jferrie (Jul 30, 2014)

most people would saying coming from a .... welll i have many names lol

I'm a general contractor that understands the employee employer relationship. I've done many jobs for clients in older homes where both of us were fully aware that the job would in time fail. It's a cost vs quality evaluation. It's pretty common for people to want a quick albeit temporary fix. In this case, maybe he just wants a working toilette for a few years until he gets around to refinishing the whole basement? Perhaps the H.O is aware his caste iron pipes are going to fail sooner rather than later and knowing this only wants to fix it until he can change the whole thing.

But like i said, I don't see any reason why the ABS part would fail... it's the iron that might.

It's more important sometimes to be honest and straight forward with people than to do things 'right' This is why i said tell him there are no guarantees, and let him make the risk assessment for himself.


----------



## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

jferrie said:


> It's more important sometimes to be honest and straight forward with people than to do things 'right' This is why i said tell him there are no guarantees, and let him make the risk assessment for himself.


I'm both honest and do things right.


----------



## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

jferrie said:


> most people would saying coming from a .... welll i have many names lol
> 
> I'm a general contractor that understands the employee employer relationship. I've done many jobs for clients in older homes where both of us were fully aware that the job would in time fail. It's a cost vs quality evaluation. It's pretty common for people to want a quick albeit temporary fix. In this case, maybe he just wants a working toilette for a few years until he gets around to refinishing the whole basement? Perhaps the H.O is aware his caste iron pipes are going to fail sooner rather than later and knowing this only wants to fix it until he can change the whole thing.
> 
> ...


Hey skippy!

Do yourself a favor and re-read this entire thread.


----------



## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

"It's more important sometimes to be honest and straight forward with people than to do things 'right'"

-jferrie

I want this one on "the wall"!


----------



## jferrie (Jul 30, 2014)

I read the entire thread thanks. 
Again, it's a risk assessment situation. Sometimes doing things right is not an option, the cost doesn't always justify it. 
I'd say cast iron should almost always be replaced, i've never seen any that isn't rusty, crumbly and falling apart. Still, we replace sections, couple pieces on, snake em out when the rust gets too think for the water to flow. Is any of that right when the best answer is replace 100% of it? No, but it's cost efficient. 

I guess if the home owner doesn;t want to dig up his floor then you either have to frankenstein something or refuse the job. Thats the choice as i see it. Just give all the information and let them decide on the cost vs risk.

Just redid supply lines to an old house, were all galvanized until we got to the water main in... it was lead. Damn, lead lol. Now the house is sitting on the canada shield, so to replace that would mean jack hammering a 8ft deep trench in a solid slab of granite... needless to say the homeowner decided drinking lead laced water isn't all that bad... Horribly wrong, but i wasn't going to pay the extra 25k to dig into that.


----------



## tenon0774 (Feb 7, 2013)

No!

Frankenstein something was NOT the only option here!

Smashing up the tile is NOT THE ONLY OTHER OPTION HERE!


----------



## KillerToiletSpider (May 27, 2007)

jferrie said:


> I don't think the abs will fail, the real risk is the cast iron will but if he doesn't want to dig it up it's a good solution.. again do not guarantee anything


I want you to pay me good money to do this repair that will have absolutely no warranty.

Should be an easy sell.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

jferrie said:


> I read the entire thread thanks.
> Again, it's a risk assessment situation. Sometimes doing things right is not an option, the cost doesn't always justify it.
> I'd say cast iron should almost always be replaced, i've never seen any that isn't rusty, crumbly and falling apart. Still, we replace sections, couple pieces on, snake em out when the rust gets too think for the water to flow. Is any of that right when the best answer is replace 100% of it? No, but it's cost efficient.
> 
> ...


Lead is fine, I drank it up until last year when the watermains were replaced on my road. 

The funny part about this thread is the correct solution isn't all that difficult.


----------



## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

Inner10 said:


> Lead is fine, I drank it up until last year when the watermains were replaced on my road.


Well that explains a lot. 

Where i work many main lines are lead. Over the years a coating has lined the pipes and no lead is detected when tested.


----------

