# Can light sweating causing DW damage?



## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I did a home 3 years ago [new home!] ...The brick chimney soaked rain fall and leaked from day one It leaked while I was still finishing the board ..in this case..It had nothing to do with the roofing or flashing ..It was the brick. The G/C sealed the brick with sealer and his problem stopped .. Maybe that's something to think about spencer before you start tearing out too much chit!! 

I've been working around cans since they came out..I hate the damn things! But I've never yet heard of a can light sweating .


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Spence...take a look at the complexity of a proper job. 

It's not what you're seeing that's causing the leak...it's what you're not seeing.

http://waterwayssheetmetal.com/bay-windows/bay-window-through-wall-flashing/

http://www.donan.com/knowledge-base/article/preventing-water-intrusion-with-through-wall-flashing/

http://www.forterrabrick.com/files/pdf/tech_notes/residential_flashing.pdf






The last link shows alternative code accepted practice as well...it's becoming more and more common to see it done this way.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Spencer said:


> Not much ventilation. Solid cedar soffits with a periodic soffit vent.


Could at least be a contributing factor. I once had a cathedral ceiling with virtually no venting that practically rained in really frigid weather.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

blacktop said:


> I did a home 3 years ago [new home!] ...The brick chimney soaked rain fall and leaked from day one It leaked while I was still finishing the board ..in this case..It had nothing to do with the roofing or flashing ..It was the brick. The G/C sealed the brick with sealer and his problem stopped .. Maybe that's something to think about spencer before you start tearing out too much chit!!
> 
> I've been working around cans since they came out..I hate the damn things! But I've never yet heard of a can light sweating .


A properly panned chimney or DPC tray install will prevent *any* rain soaked chimney from transferring moisture to the inside. It is all about the flashing and sealers should never be relied on to substitute proper flashing.

That GC simply slapped a quick fix or lipsticked a pig if you ask me... it will leak again for sure and it won't be long.

You must not know Pete :no:


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> Could at least be a contributing factor. I once had a cathedral ceiling with virtually no venting that practically rained in really frigid weather.


Good point I did a tear out on a 30 ft cathedral that had rotted the sheetrock and sheathing ....2x4 truss with crushed baffles ..The home was only 25 years old.. I don't know how it passed in the first place .. The G/C Doing the project screwed 2x2s to the ceiling joist and properly insulated the ceiling.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

superseal said:


> A properly panned chimney or DPC tray install will prevent *any* rain soaked chimney from transferring moisture to the inside. It is all about the flashing and sealers should never be relied on to substitute proper flashing.
> 
> That GC simply slapped a quick fix or lipsticked a pig if you ask me... it will leak again for sure and it won't be long.
> 
> ...


That wasn't the case! Even the brick company admitted the brick had been a problem in the past . They were the ones that suggested and paid for the sealer . I did the rock on the home when it was built 5 years ago ?? Then they built on an addition last year .. plus some basement work. same G/C Did the addition . I asked and looked at the chimney It looked fine and he said it's been dry since the H/O Moved in. After the brick was sealed the problem stopped .


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

blacktop said:


> That wasn't the case! Even the brick company admitted the brick had been a problem in the past . They were the ones that suggested and paid for the sealer . I did the rock on the home when it was built 5 years ago ?? Then they built on an addition last year .. plus some basement work. same G/C Did the addition . I asked and looked at the chimney It looked fine and he said it's been dry since the H/O Moved in. After the brick was sealed the problem stopped .


No disrespect, you'll never convince any mason worth his salt, that statement. 

All brick gets saturated a full wythe if not more, either through the brick itself or the mortar...it's perfectly healthy and with proper flashing, drains the cavity to the outside as per industry standards.

Some of the best brick on earth are soft to med red clay brick which have tremendous porosity and god given ability to drain and dry out expeditiously. 

Don't get me wrong, i'm a huge proponent for sealers... just not for the reasons you suggest.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

superseal said:


> No disrespect, you'll never convince any mason worth his salt, that statement.
> 
> All brick gets saturated a full wythe if not more, either through the brick itself or the mortar...it's perfectly healthy and with proper flashing, drains the cavity to the outside as per industry standards.
> 
> ...


Just saying what I've seen mang!!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Spencer said:


> What I would like to know is why does the water stain gravitate towards the outside?
> 
> To me the stain around the can on the right gravitates around the can itself so much that it points to the can itself. But why does it head towards the outside? I would think its level...air movement? There is fiberglass batts above the blown insulation inside that bay roof cavity, maybe that makes it worse...


Ever seen a perfectly level ceiling?


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

Odd question... but what does it smell like in there?


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## J.C. (Sep 28, 2009)

Does the problem show up/get worse in the winter or is it a year round problem?


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

superseal said:


> That's all you need to know... it's a very common problem.
> 
> You need to have through wall...it's not an option...it *will* leak.
> 
> ...


When I reached my hand up and under to feel the outside wall OSB sheathing I could not feel any house wrap. I assume the overlap of the housewrap over the through-wall flashing is critical. 

How would you approach it in this situation with no housewrap?

I'm leaning heavily in your direction...the bay window water damage pic in the link you posted is exactly the same...

http://www.donan.com/knowledge-base/article/preventing-water-intrusion-with-through-wall-flashing/


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

Spencer said:


> When I reached my hand up and under to feel the outside wall OSB sheathing I could not feel any house wrap. I assume the overlap of the housewrap over the through-wall flashing is critical.
> 
> How would you approach it in this situation with no housewrap?
> 
> ...


I can't imagine there being no housewrap, that opens an entirely different can of worms.

The mason may bolted angles around the perimeter of that roof and papered above. 

Are there weeps at the base of the wall in general? Is there a brick ledge with flashing visible?...It doesn't appear so from the pics.

The absence of a housewrap if it's the case...(i don't think so) would be a death sentence to framing in general and I would remove the entire facade and start from scratch.

Resistance testing could be undertaken as well as intrusive, to determine if other areas of the home suffer the same conditions.

I need more pics of the interior ceiling area once the rock is ripped...it'll tell me a lot.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

*Can Light Sweating Causing DW Damage?*

Forget my previous comments. It's definitely not the cans and it's definitely coming down the Osb on the outside wall.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

superseal said:


> I can't imagine there being no housewrap, that opens an entirely different can of worms.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See above pics. 

I still find no sign of house wrap. Wouldn't surprise me if it was not standard 20+ years ago in my area. 

I was able to feel around this opening which is above the bay window roof and there still is no sign of house wrap.


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## superseal (Feb 4, 2009)

The original builder should be hung, drawn and quartered...that right there is pandora's box.

Not even much airspace between the two.

This home is going to need much further inspection and remediation...feel sorry for the owner.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

idk..seems like most masons around here don't consider water proofing or flashing for that matter part of their job..


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Can anyone else chime in with regards to past practices of not using housewrap? Was it ever standard not to in other areas? 

The builder was actually a reputable builder at that time but has since retired. I am in a very "amishy" community. Typically behind the times and this was built before common internet usage. I called the HO again and asked about the housewrap or tar paper. He does not think anything was used. The home was built 26 years ago.

At this point I'm just trying to help the HO's find the problem and refer them along to the proper trades to get it fixed. They are a very nice older couple from my church that live a few miles from me. I just hate to see someone get passed along for 20 years without an answer or solution.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

House wrap wasn't used universally 20 years ago (or even today), but the use of _something_ there was a well-established practice long before that. I've worked on many houses from the 40's and 50's, and they all had it. Usually felt back then.


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## Texas Wax (Jan 16, 2012)

Spencer said:


> I still find no sign of house wrap. Wouldn't surprise me if it was not standard 20+ years ago in my area


Yup Sherlock early to mid 90's upper midwest-great lakes House wrap was an added feature, good practice, but not absolute. Half the houses I framed during that time didn't. 

Speculate on all the permutations of causes -fixes you'd like. 
But just work out a deal with HO, pull the ceiling and take a hose to the wall. Check from the lowest part of the hip angles all the way up to the vent.


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