# employees doing "side work"



## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

MJW said:


> Are these guys doing side jobs legally? Are they licensed, bonded, insured to work on their own? Most aren't and are just under bidding everyone and ruining the construction community. You are either the boss or employee, not both.


And yep.


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## theworx (Dec 20, 2005)

I don't think it's about an employee doing a complete remodel or an addition. It's installing one door, patching a hole in a wall, replacing one or two rotten boards on a deck, etc... $20.00 bucks here, $20.00 bucks there... Do you really have to be licensed and fully insured to do that???


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

*they have no overhead or insurance so can charge less. * 

If a customer or builder for that matter is willing to do work without insurance, he's digging his own grave. Let him self destruct then. 

*Encouraging side work is ridiculous. Do you want an employee or do you want to train the competition, not just train but encourage somebody to leave your nest? Doing side work is the start of leaving you, it's only really a matter of time in the majority of cases.*

No one said anything about ENCOURAGING it, but simply not giving them crap if they do it. You aren't necessarily training someone to leave the nest. I'm a nurse and have worked with some awesome nursing assistants. I always encourage them to go to nursing school. A lot of times they just tell me they prefer NA work because there is less responsibility and less stress. I imagine that not every person who works in building WANTS to be a "boss" for the reasons listed. Some guys are perfectly happy to work for someone else and WON'T want to do side jobs. 

*If you have an employee with the brains and the drive to look at bettering himself with side work, I would look instead at how you can nurture and develop that person within your organization instead. How can you help him grow financially and in skills within your company and benefit your company? A guy like that to me would be worth his weight in gold, because he would be a great candidate to be a new lead or crew leader to help you expand.*

A lot of times, small companies are not in a position to develop a person within the "organization". The "organization" is my husband and me. We've had some subs who are good for JUST working for us, doing scut work, nothing that requires any skill. We wouldn't and haven't paid a TALENTED builder anything less than 1k a week. We can't do that on a sustained basis. If by accident we came across someone who wasn't yet on his own but was very talented, we would "take him under our wing" so to speak, but would encourage him to go out on his own at some point if he wanted.

Again, if you are large enough to need foremen on jobs, yes, promote a great talent in the ranks. Not all of them will want to get out on their own.

At this point WE don't want to be on our own. It isn't worth the headaches. He would gladly take a nice cushy superintendent job.


*As for the view the boss is making more money......Isn't that why we do it. Isn't that why you get paid if the job goes sour and the boss has to eat the losses and the potential lawsuits.*

Correct, maybe I take this a bit personally because we were struggling so hard to make ends meet and his dad was sitting high on the hog and refused to give ANYTHING. He wouldn't pursue more jobs so my husband could run them and he wouldn't let HIM pursue them either. Wasn't interested in a "partnership" with him. There was no where for my husband to grow. He hit the ceiling with his dad. 

* I have a set of guidelines that employees must agree to work by before they are hired. In the guidelines is a statement that says they must not solicit themselves for work while on my job or do any side work for any of my contracted clients. If they wish to take side work they can, as long as it is not related to my biz and doesn't interfere with their work on my jobs.*

Exactly. 

* Are these guys doing side jobs legally? Are they licensed, bonded, insured to work on their own? Most aren't and are just under bidding everyone and ruining the construction community. You are either the boss or employee, not both. *

I should hope so. If they aren't, more power to them and the homeowner when something goes wrong. I wouldn't hire a contractor who wasn't insured no matter how cheap they were. They each deserve what they would get in that case.


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

My lead guy gets his forty every week. He has tried side jobs but they wore him out physically (because he is already tired from our work and he does not get the rest he needs on the weekends). Those side jobs also wore on him mentally as well. He never realized the HO factor that comes with the turf.

In short, I compensate my lead guy better than most so he does not need to go out looking for side jobs.


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

*My lead guy gets his forty every week. He has tried side jobs but they wore him out physically (because he is already tired from our work and he does not get the rest he needs on the weekends). Those side jobs also wore on him mentally as well. He never realized the HO factor that comes with the turf.*

That's what I imagine would usually happen. It sure LOOKS easy (sometimes) but if they think they can do it, go ahead and let them try. When they fall flat on their ass they will show up for work the next day and lick your boots in gratitude for what you provide.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Kristina said:


> It's not different than him working a second job at McDonald's to help make ends meet.


That's incorrect
It's very, very, different
McDonald's in not in the same field
If the employee got a job at McD's it wouldn't be a conflict


Kristina said:


> Nobody should ever tell someone they can't work on the side. As long as he is pulling his weight and time with you, it's none of your business what he does after hours.


It is your business if it's competing with your business


Kristina said:


> ...you have no right to stop him either.


Yes you do, it's a no-compete clause
I've had to agree to them before
...it's common
"you can have a side job, but not in this biz"


Kristina said:


> You absolutely can make it clear in your work agreement that he is NOT allowed to solicit customers you make contact with.


I would still add a no-compete clause

I gotta tell ya, I've worked on crews and for GCs
They absolutely lose money by employees taking side jobs from them
Sometimes jobs that the contractor has bid on

Often the homeowner will approach the employee for "side" jobs while they are working on the job
Often the worker will ask if there's more work to be done and ask how much the boss bid, and offer to do it cheaper

I feel that reflects poorly on the employee and your company
(and the H/O)



Kristina said:


> Do NOT mess with a man's ability to make a decent living for himself.


No-one with a no-compete clause interfering with that
A man can make a decent living
There's lots of ways to do that
Even within the industry
He just can't compete with his employer, his steady paycheck, the guy who took the plunge, risks it every day, puts bread on his table...

I really don't have a problem with side jobs if they are not in the same business and not competing
...or even if they are jobs the boss passed on

But I think the law must be laid down

Regardless of how much a "good" employee produced for me
If they are soliciting and accepting side jobs that would be considered my competition, I think it reflects poorly on them and My Company
I would not keep them

Never mind the fact that usually we are talking about a guy/gal taking contracting work w/o a license or insurance...but that's another thread


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

*Sometimes jobs that the contractor has bid on

Often the homeowner will approach the employee for "side" jobs while they are working on the job
Often the worker will ask if there's more work to be done and ask how much the boss bid, and offer to do it cheaper

I feel that reflects poorly on the employee and your company*

This is not what I'm talking about. This is EXACTLY what I said should NOT be permitted. That's BS.

The business is competitive period. Contractors come and go, some are solid and stay the course, others are fly by night hacks, let the HOs figure that out for themselves. Let your employee with no liability insurance or license screw something up and lose their shirt in a lawsuit. If you find out that your guy/girl has solicited a current customer, he's fired. End of the story. 

I just don't think it's fair to tell someone they are not allowed to do side work in the field they are qualified. If they have their own tools and order their own materials, I fail to see the problem.

I understand that some think differently and maybe some day my position will change.


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## KENNEDY (Dec 8, 2005)

Friends or family, no problem. Every employee of mine has thier own business card and I offer finder fees for any jobs they bring in and I can sell. They get their hours, don't have to worry about insurance, and a little bonus (1 to 2% of labor) and my company gets the job plus all future referrals.


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

Very good plan, Kennedy! :thumbsup:


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

I also offer a finders fee, in fact, I set them up and let them sell it for a commision if they wish.

I don't let them steal walkups!

Bob


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Allow me to illustrate my definition a little further: My little company only does major projects anymore. I do not do handyman type work or little jobs, nor do I pursue those jobs. When a customer calls and has some shingles blown off and not wanting a roof replacement, I will let my guys do it if they want to for a few bucks...same for hanging a door, tiling a bathroom, or pouring a few feet of concrete. It has been my experience that this paves the way for larger jobs if you help someone out and my guys know I am fair. I tell them what to charge and they do go out and "bid" jobs. Kind of a fringe benifit for them, if they want some extra money. All my guys own their own hand toold and cordless tools...a ladder I can spare. I have had one employee try to take on a few bigger jobs on his own. We parted ways and after he found out it was easier working for me, he is now one of my best subs...he does the work, pays his own insurance, and makes more....he is free to work for anyone he wants, and he found out the hard way working for me is the best way. My way would not work for everyone and my market is not the same as others here. I trust my guys or I wouldn't have them on the payroll. If I find out I cannot trust them, they won't be with me long enough to matter.


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

copusbuilder said:


> If my guys tell me I am lucky to be where I am at I tell them it is easy and they need to do it. Just be willing to work 90 hour weeks for the first three years for what a McDonalds employee makes.


omg thats the truth. I sware i do almost 90 hrs a week by the time to add in all my running around on estimates and paper work. I'm in year two of my business.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Kristina said:


> No one said anything about ENCOURAGING it, but simply not giving them crap if they do it. You aren't necessarily training someone to leave the nest.





> I have an employee who buys his materials from me at cost.





> I actually set up small jobs for my guys and the customer pays them direct...





> I don't mind them using my tools, as long as they are taken care of.


That sure sounds like encouraging your employees to do side work. It sure as hell ain't discouraging it!

Like I said - what they do on their own time is none of my business, but it is ridiculous to encourage employees to do anything BUT work harder and smarter for you and make more money in the process. If a guy needs more money, lets talk about it and see how bad he really wants it, then lets see what we can do for him to allow him to earn it.


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## Gordo (Feb 21, 2006)

Mike Finley said:


> That sure sounds like encouraging your employees to do side work. It sure as hell ain't discouraging it!
> 
> Like I said - what they do on their own time is none of my business, but it is ridiculous to encourage employees to do anything BUT work harder and smarter for you and make more money in the process. If a guy needs more money, lets talk about it and see how bad he really wants it, then lets see what we can do for him to allow him to earn it.



:thumbsup:


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

*That sure sounds like encouraging your employees to do side work. It sure as hell ain't discouraging it!

Like I said - what they do on their own time is none of my business, but it is ridiculous to encourage employees to do anything BUT work harder and smarter for you and make more money in the process. If a guy needs more money, lets talk about it and see how bad he really wants it, then lets see what we can do for him to allow him to earn it.*

That's the way ONE contractor runs his business. If he wants to run it that way, fine. I was simply saying that while I wouldn't necessarily ENCOURAGE it myself, I wouldn't discourage it either. 

I was making a more generalized response about reasonable practice regarding side jobs. I don't think it's reasonable to FIRE someone or forbid someone from doing it. However, I don't agree with encouraging it unless you find someone with talent they don't realize they have. I think it's perfectly fine to mentor people in the field. There are a LOT of crappy contractors out there and I think it's right to encourage good ones. 

Perhaps I'm just not at your level of cynicism yet. If you are confident in your abilities and business savvy, you won't worry about another contractor entering the field. 

I'm just saying this is how I see it from this vantage point. My position may change. I can't ever say what tomorrow will bring.


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

*make agreements*

We have some policys in place ,do to all of our local buisness,a ten mile radius is the rule,keeping employees from taking work from us,which hurts the other employees and the buisness as a whole,at times they were taking off to do side jobs right around the corner from the shop,Sometimes solicting work on the job there at.None of this will be tolorated,In effect we lose work,money,customers and them.After a size 14 triple e is broke off in your  ,we let you go,simple as that!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Kristina said:


> Perhaps I'm just not at your level of cynicism yet. If you are confident in your abilities and business savvy, you won't worry about another contractor entering the field.


You are really missing the points here. This is nothing about stopping competition, while it makes little sense to encourage your employees to go out on their own which is what side work is the start of, it has everything to do about your business now, not your business later.

Maybe you have never considered the huge expense and opportunity costs involved with training an employee? Turn over is a huge killer of not only productivity, but profitability. When you bring in an employee who has no idea for instance how to lay tile and you are on the job, you can lay the tile yourself and be done in 2 hours and you are making money, or you can invest into your business by teaching the employee how to do it. The job now takes 6 hours, and all he now has is a basic understanding, it's going to take hundreds upon hundreds of hours of investment to get him to a professional level. How many times can you afford to spend 1000 hours over and over on new employees teaching an employee how to preform the way he needs to in order to be an asset to your company? Why in the hell would anybody who has that much of an investment in an employee then encourage a them to not be your employee? I think the better plan is to do everything you can to make an employee so happy and content that he doesn't need to seek side work or seek going out on his own.

Once again, the solution perhaps isn't to turn your head in the other direction or even worse, help the guy "earn a little spending money", by doing side jobs, but maybe to take the guy you already have a huge vested interest in and allow him to make more money while still growing in *your *company.

Hey, look at it this way, if the entire side job issue is only about the employee needing more money, the win/win is to help him grow into earning more while helping your company. But, if the entire side job issue is only about mentoring him, or helping him to become his own boss, then it's pink slip time. See ya. Adiós, they guys already dead to me, he has already vacated his job position with the company, it's only a matter of when he decides to pull the trigger on you.


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

How many ways can we find to do any given task or project? When we are asked for opinions, we all voice what we do, and do you notice how quickly the hammer comes out if someone's opinion differs? I will say it again: What works for me, may not work for anyone else, and may tee off contractor X who wants to micro-manage or dominate life. What we are voicing are opinions about practices and we all have widely based experiences to draw from. If I had guys go out and bid "side work" secretly, or contact customers on their own, I would not allow it. I also will not try to calculate the wear and tear to my tile saw or ladder because "Joe" is using it to tile an old lady's bathroom on Saturday afternoon. If an employee wants to be on his own someday, you will know it if you are paying attention closely to what your guys do. I do not and will not run my company in a method that is me against them, or it's mine, and you work for me, so deal with it. I treat my guys like I would want to be treated, and if it drives me to the poor house for poor management or business skills, so be it. So far, like my home designs and metal roofing, it works for me.


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

*maybe to take the guy you already have a huge vested interest in and allow him to make more money while still growing in your company.*

I see your points, from a larger company prospective. Ours isn't that large, so that philosophy doesn't work for us right now. We don't hire people who can't lay tile. If we need tile laid, we hire someone who lays tile. Know what I mean?

We have no way to compensate or promote someone at this point. 

I've said, my position may change in the future as our business changes.

* How many ways can we find to do any given task or project? When we are asked for opinions, we all voice what we do, and do you notice how quickly the hammer comes out if someone's opinion differs? I will say it again: What works for me, may not work for anyone else, and may tee off contractor X who wants to micro-manage or dominate life. What we are voicing are opinions about practices and we all have widely based experiences to draw from. If I had guys go out and bid "side work" secretly, or contact customers on their own, I would not allow it. I also will not try to calculate the wear and tear to my tile saw or ladder because "Joe" is using it to tile an old lady's bathroom on Saturday afternoon. If an employee wants to be on his own someday, you will know it if you are paying attention closely to what your guys do. I do not and will not run my company in a method that is me against them, or it's mine, and you work for me, so deal with it. I treat my guys like I would want to be treated, and if it drives me to the poor house for poor management or business skills, so be it. So far, like my home designs and metal roofing, it works for me. *

:thumbup: :clap: Well said. I appreciate the vast differences that are here. There is a LOT to learn if you are open to it, on ALL sides. I don't think there is a single person here who can't contribute something.

I appreciate what some of you bigger guys are saying. I am not able to look at it from that perspective because we've never been as big as you are. My father was pro-union for as long as I can remember. President even, until he became owner of his OWN elevator company. Then his perspective changed, it wasn't the big business trying to shaft the little guys making them all the money, it was the little guys trying to extort the big guys who had no CHOICE but to pay all the money.

That's all I'm saying. I just don't appreciate the implication that because we are young or smaller businesses that we are therefore idiots. We are giving props to you guys, I'm just failing to see the respect back.


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## Mrhandy (Mar 19, 2005)

I think that everyone is missing a very large item that must be taken into consideration. You can't complain about competing against uninsured contractors then let your employees do it. Get real. I also would like to see you explain it to your insurance company if something goes wrong. It just happened to be your customer and your job, but you did not want to be involved and your employee was doing the job with your tools for cash on the weekend.

If you think about it for a minute, the only policy that make sense is what Mike is saying. If you want to encourage your employees to better themselves, do it by teaching them to make you more money in the process or at least to conduct themselves legally with the highest standards so they are not taking work from people who do.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

realpurty2 said:


> I have a non-compete clause that is used for each employee. They may not directly solicite work from my customers, nor perform work using my materials, tools, or within any connection to our business WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL. If Mrs. H.O asks one of our guys to do Project X... they have two choices... discuss it with us so that we can make sure it's either something that we will "watch their back's" on since they wouldn't even know of the opportunity if it weren't for being there on my nickle and that indirectly ties them to our name and reputation... or they can leave employment and take on their own risk.
> 
> Is that considered encouraging side work? I'm not sure. I don't give it a concrete label but as someone else said.. it boosts our reputation and referrals because Mrs.H.O got her request completed, the employee got compensated for his work and he's happy, and when it's done above board... I didn't get put into a position of being liable for something I didn't know was going on to begin with. I see that as a win/win.
> 
> The Liability Issue- If an employee of our company is not qualified to do any work Mrs.H.O asks for as a side job, by keeping things above board, we do not allow the work under our name or responsibility. I wouldn't send a plumber to do electrical work as a side job anymore than I'd send one as part of a crew. If the employee requests to do work out of his scope, then of course we wouldn't back him and he'd either be given the choice of resigning or declining the work. If I find out they did it anyway, termination would be the result. Most aren't willing to give up steady work for a one time shot, especially since there are many many ways to grow in our company. We offer tuition assistance, educational opportunites, promotions, benefits etc. Anyone who would rather do a side job here and there at the risk of losing the benefits of employee status are not the type employee I want for us anyway so I wouldn't see termination as any loss to us. They made their choice and I'd make mine.


That sounds completely fair and honest w/o reflecting poorly on your company or employees, and while maintaining liability issues and cordial relationships (employee and customer)
If the lines are drawn ahead of time, there should be no problems
There's no ambiguity there, but there is flexibility
I give it two thumbs up
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Kristina said:


> I am honestly astonished that the woman across the street from us can stand to face our home, our children, every day knowing she took food out of their mouths and is sitting pretty in her GORGEOUS remodeled home that she never finished paying for.
> 
> How can she look at herself in the mirror everyday? How can she sleep at night? Can she really believe that what she did was RIGHT?!?!?


I used to live next to her
heck, I've done work for her
She feels she's entitled to that gorgeous home
She doesn't think she took food out of your mouths-that really doesn't enter her mind
All that matters is her, the mind sort of stops after rationalizing anything that suits her needs

Perhaps at one moment she thought of it, but that was over quickly with a rationalization that you are rich, or are a crook, and can afford it, or she's so special you're happy to have her as a customer (yes, people who don't pay still think of themselves as customers), or some other insane narcissistic thought


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

*some other insane narcissistic thought*

So do I blame her mother?? I just wonder how people can grow up without empathy for others.

I mean, from an early age you are taught not to hurt other people. That you can't do whatever you want as long as it impacts other people.

I guess it's all part of that wave of parents who never disciplined their children and coddled them. The kids grow up entitled and don't think they owe anyone anything.

The thing is, she's 45 yrs old.  AND she's retired military AND her husband is a general in the ANG. You'd think they'd know better or at least hold themselves PERSONALLY up to a higher standard of integrity. I guess not.

Whatever. This is why I want to nail them so badly. People who go through life taking advantage of other people because they perceive them as weak or without recourse, suck. I have zero respect for them regardless of "who they are". 

I'd really like to see the good win over the bad just once.


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

Kristina said:


> I'd really like to see the good win over the bad just once.


Oh it will Kristina :thumbup: But nobody knows when!!:thumbup: 

Someday all the dishonesty and bs we have to put up with here will be gone, and we WILL live in humble abodes with good neighbors!!!! :clap:

And THE HEAD GC will set the fools apart from us....:notworthy


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

You all are wack. Anybody can hire anybody to work on there property to perform anywork as long as no contracts are signed he is not a contractor. He is a employee of said HO. In WA if hours worked are less than 32 hours a week then no workers comp is required to be paid. 
To many know it all MBA's in here.


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

*You all are wack. Anybody can hire anybody to work on there property to perform anywork as long as no contracts are signed he is not a contractor. He is a employee of said HO. In WA if hours worked are less than 32 hours a week then no workers comp is required to be paid. 
To many know it all MBA's in here.*

Absolutely true. My husband was going to do work for his sister in Va and didn't want to go through the hassle of an out of state license. She would just obtain the permits. Totally legal too.

I think the ultimate issue is these unlicensed, uninsured people doing work while associated with a legit business.


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## realpurty2 (Aug 18, 2005)

JustaFramer said:


> You all are wack. Anybody can hire anybody to work on there property to perform anywork as long as no contracts are signed he is not a contractor. He is a employee of said HO. \


Justa... your 100% correct. He would be an employee of said HO. He better really get paid well and enjoy it because said HO would be his boss from that point on too cause his days here would be over.  

Now I'm po'ed.. where's my MBA?? I got cheated somehow. If posting an opinion warrants me an MBA... I want mine, it never came in the mail. Dang it... I think everyone should revolt.. we're all due MBA's for our postings here and I bet no one else got theirs either! I say we all go camp on Justa's front lawn until he distributes our diploma's. (Or maybe just redirect him to the post about insulting others on here is not acceptable..I'd give up my MBA for that.) 

Pst.. hey Justa.. lose the opening insult and we'd find your post far more informative.


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## maj (Mar 13, 2006)

*Here we go again......*

I thought we had established the fact that half the states in this union DO NOT REQUIRE LICENSING...

But yet some on this board still seem to think that legitimate contractors are ONLY those with the states approval.:no: 

I love the diversity & opinions stated on this board, but when someone must feel the urge to insult other members because he/she seems to think everyone must play by their rules, then I only lose respect for those people.


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

Ya know, I always thought I was smart enough for my MBA. I want mine too, maybe then I can get a raise from my husband. :thumbsup:


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

realpurty2 said:


> Justa... your 100% correct. He would be an employee of said HO. He better really get paid well and enjoy it because said HO would be his boss from that point on too cause his days here would be over.
> 
> Now I'm po'ed.. where's my MBA?? I got cheated somehow. If posting an opinion warrants me an MBA... I want mine, it never came in the mail. Dang it... I think everyone should revolt.. we're all due MBA's for our postings here and I bet no one else got theirs either! I say we all go camp on Justa's front lawn until he distributes our diploma's. (Or maybe just redirect him to the post about insulting others on here is not acceptable..I'd give up my MBA for that.)
> 
> Pst.. hey Justa.. lose the opening insult and we'd find your post far more informative.


 JUSTAFRAMER

That guy has allot of knowledge and I would have to agree somewhat with him and disagree with him to. I guess we all as business owners have the right to set our own precedence. Not that is matters to you but I do back his business ethics and beliefs 100%. He has givin some great now how to the trade


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## A+Carpenter (Apr 19, 2005)

JustaFramer said:


> You all are wack. Anybody can hire anybody to work on there property to perform anywork as long as no contracts are signed he is not a contractor. He is a employee of said HO. In WA if hours worked are less than 32 hours a week then no workers comp is required to be paid.
> To many know it all MBA's in here.


You are correct about the Wa and the 32 hour exemption. Stated just the same as a part time job anything over 32 is full time and requires WK LIC 

When I was building in Idaho it was the same way also.


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## realpurty2 (Aug 18, 2005)

A+Carpenter said:


> JUSTAFRAMER
> 
> 
> Not that is matters to you but I do back his business ethics and beliefs 100%. He has givin some great now how to the trade


Adam, in reference to the MBA remarks... do you not realize humor when you read it? Everything else.. I was only pointing out considering all the negative and hurtful post going on here lately that the insult as an opening statement was uncalled for. Not everyone on here is a "wack" nor do some of us like being insulted for stating a thought that doesn't agree with every person on here. Geesh, it's getting any more where it's not even worth posting unless your willing to dodge all the arrows shot at you. :sad:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

To be honest with you all I didn't read all the post's in this thread. No not all of them are wack but there are a few that are. My statement was a broad blanket statement. Also opinions are like a aholes. It's no secret there are a few cats here I don't like and the same could be said about me. I don't give a rats I am a hard nosed prick jaded by the industry and take my money when I can. Love me hate me I am who I am.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

JustaFramer said:


> I am a hard nosed prick jaded by the industry and take my money when I can. Love me hate me I am who I am.


Maybe so, but I'm bettin' you have forgotten more about framing then I will probably ever know. I'll second Adams comments too.


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## Bone Saw (Feb 13, 2006)

I agree with Mike, Adam and Justa too. BTW what happened here, we all use to be able to get into some good heated discussion round here weather it was tools, teckniques or buisness, and everyone pretty much had thick skin until all the whiners, self appointed moderators and(in the words of one of our dearly missed departee's) "MOAN JOBS" came out of the woodwork???


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

I don't know about the others, but my last comment was a joke simply trying to lighten things up.

I never considered myself a whiner or a self appointed moderator. :shutup:


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## camaroman2125 (Apr 13, 2006)

In ohio no matter how long you work as long as you don't have any employee's or if you do like my dad does you 1099 everyone you don't need to carry workers comp. Anywho my liability insurance takes care of that anyway.


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> Maybe so, but I'm bettin' you have forgotten more about framing then I will probably ever know. I'll second Adams comments too.



Oh come on there isn't much to know about framing. What are you saying I forgot everything? :thumbsup: :jester:


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## JustaFramer (Jan 21, 2005)

Bone Saw said:


> I agree with Mike, Adam and Justa too. BTW what happened here, we all use to be able to get into some good heated discussion round here weather it was tools, teckniques or buisness, and everyone pretty much had thick skin until all the whiners, self appointed moderators and(in the words of one of our dearly missed departee's) "MOAN JOBS" came out of the woodwork???



Ah yes the ole days where we could tell one another to go f ourselves and the next day still be friends. :whistling


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## old27 (Feb 13, 2005)

*yo Justa*

go F yourself.


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