# What tools do you require your painters to have?



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

EricBrancard said:


> It's pretty common with mechanics as well.


Baseball players, golfers, basketball players...


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Whats the deference between a painter and a puppy?


The puppy stops whining !


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

I used to toss brushes after each job. Then I watched my sundry costs SKYROCKET. 3 months later, I clean at end of day. It's good for winding down the day. When I have help, I wash and he spins. 

I have found though, employees are like children. Give them an "out" & they will take it. Whether it's driving their own car, or supplying their own tools.

So I made a "new hire bag". This is the best solution I have found. I ask them if they prefer Wooster or purdy, & stock accordingly.

You get:
Husky toolbag
Husky 15 in 1
2 Phillips screwdriver
2 different sized flathead screwdriver
3 brushes : Wooster Lindberg or purdy X series
5 gal bucket opener
Handful of 1 gal paint openers
Cats paw
Basic work gloves

Check out when hired, back in when no longer employed. Restocking comes out of last paycheck. Everything replaced at reasonable time levels. You break/lose/abuse you buy it (company property after all). Also, you get a write up if lost/abused. 3 write ups and your gone.

I may be a 2 man show right now, but if I blew up into a 200 man show I already have policy's established with a handbook that explains everything.

If you asked me to bring a hammer, I would question your company. That's a serious lack of policy on your part. If your company can't control inventory, how the he'll you gonna track my pay, sick time, benefits? 

I come from 16 years in factory work. Maintenance, entry level, and supervision. You better believe if I needed so much as an ink pen or calculator those places supplied them from a tool bin. Heck I still have about 30 pair of channel ok pliers from those days. The "tool bin" was like the school supply room. You need something go sign it out. If it gets excessive, it came out of your check.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

Driftweed said:


> Heck I still have about 30 pair of channel ok pliers from those days. The "tool bin" was like the school supply room. You need something go sign it out. If it gets excessive, it came out of your check.


So did they take the 30 pair of channel locks out of your pay? Where I live they are about 20.00 a pair. I can't afford 600.00 in free tools to each of my guys. This is exactly why I'm asking the question. I'm not only supplying tools for the job but also tools that end up at their house. 

I do like the idea of a "new hire" bag. How would I collect my tools if they get paid on Friday and don't show on Monday? Still seems like it would be difficult to enforce.


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## kingcarpenter (Jan 30, 2015)

*what tools do you require your painters to have*



hdavis said:


> Brushes are supplied around here. Generally ditched at the end of the day rather than paying someone to clean them.


I take it your using throw aways. Can't quite gather how throwing good brushes away would save more than a good cleaning would. If this is the case good brushes will save a bunch of time and money in cutting and general application. For the original poster nobody will take care of company tools, truck or whatever. Make them buy tools for themselves. Tools won't walk and will be there. Good thing your not a carp. You would of been tits to the moon long before 18 years. Painters hand tools are cheap.


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

summithomeinc said:


> So did they take the 30 pair of channel locks out of your pay? Where I live they are about 20.00 a pair. I can't afford 600.00 in free tools to each of my guys. This is exactly why I'm asking the question. I'm not only supplying tools for the job but also tools that end up at their house.
> 
> I do like the idea of a "new hire" bag. How would I collect my tools if they get paid on Friday and don't show on Monday? Still seems like it would be difficult to enforce.


Over the course of five years, yes. I always kept them in my back pocket and wouldn't realize until I got in the truck after work. They charged me $15/pair. 

When I left one company, I had about $400 in tools they gave me upon hire. I didn't want to return them as I was called in on my day off to be fired and didn't feel like returning home just to get their tools, so they took it out of my last check. I still have the 1 3/4 inch wrench ...


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

kingcarpenter said:


> I take it your using throw aways. Can't quite gather how throwing good brushes away would save more than a good cleaning would.


Not me, but the larger ones running multiple crews. The biggest one around seasonally uses a lot of people with no DL - I'm guessing OUIs, but could be child support, etc.

If your schedule is filled and it takes your crew 30 minutes to clean stuff each day (just a number), you're losing 6% of capacity, so increasing the gross by 6% with relatively inexpensive brushes and minimizing cleaning can be a decent move. Plus, I've seen some of the brushes that people who claim to be "pro painters" have cleaned, and I wouldn't waste time picking one up, you won't get the performance you get with a properly cleaned or new brush. I doubt the drunk crews do any better.

Everybody has a strategy for their people, their market, etc. Different things make sense in different situations.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

kingcarpenter said:


> If this is the case good brushes will save a bunch of time and money in cutting and general application


That really depends on the skill of the painter. For some, going from a Purdy or Silvertip to a corona or better is a waste of brush.


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## kingcarpenter (Jan 30, 2015)

*what tools do you require your painters to have.*



hdavis said:


> Not me, but the larger ones running multiple crews. The biggest one around seasonally uses a lot of people with no DL - I'm guessing OUIs, but could be child support, etc.
> 
> If your schedule is filled and it takes your crew 30 minutes to clean stuff each day (just a number), you're losing 6% of capacity, so increasing the gross by 6% with relatively inexpensive brushes and minimizing cleaning can be a decent move. Plus, I've seen some of the brushes that people who claim to be "pro painters" have cleaned, and I wouldn't waste time picking one up, you won't get the performance you get with a properly cleaned or new brush. I doubt the drunk crews do any better.
> 
> Everybody has a strategy for their people, their market, etc. Different things make sense in different situations.


Your losing way more than 6% with throw aways with paint being the 1st and last thing everyone sees unless your selling your work to blind people. Anyone that says they can apply paint as well with with a trash brush as opposed to a real brush is really blind. Unless of course they are working for a fresh out of college super who learned it out of the book. Ive got woosters and purdys I've had over 20 years. If you take care of any decent tool it will take care of you forever. On the flip I know now it's all about speed. I don't want to be in that"market".


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

kingcarpenter said:


> Anyone that says they can apply paint as well with with a trash brush as opposed to a real brush is really blind.
> .
> .
> .
> . On the flip I know now it's all about speed. I don't want to be in that"market".


A Wooster Silver Tip isn't a bad brush - it isn't like using a chip brush or the $4 black (nylon?) brushes. Some people just don't do much better with a better brush for a lot of reasons, it doesn't really look good (IMO) no matter what they use.

For me, I can go a lot faster and get great results if I'm using the best brush for the paint / surface. I'm assuming you can, too. That isn't true for a lot of people employed as painters around here.


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## kingcarpenter (Jan 30, 2015)

hdavis said:


> A Wooster Silver Tip isn't a bad brush - it isn't like using a chip brush or the $4 black (nylon?) brushes. Some people just don't do much better with a better brush for a lot of reasons, it doesn't really look good (IMO) no matter what they use.
> 
> For me, I can go a lot faster and get great results if I'm using the best brush for the paint / surface. I'm assuming you can, too. That isn't true for a lot of people employed as painters around here.


This is true. You did not state what type of brush. however a top of the line brush will apply any good paint properly on any surface. A steady stroke with a keen eye is key here. Going faster means nothing for me except for going back. Many people could do better with a better brush if one takes time to put a little quality in front of the brush. Otherwise a monkey can use a mop. But quality does not seem to be in many peoples vocab, but speed sure does. i guess it's good in the production world but we have been out of that market so long I wouldn't know. Guess thats where the saying " can't see it from my house" comes from.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

kingcarpenter said:


> This is true. You did not state what type of brush. however a top of the line brush will apply any good paint properly on any surface. A steady stroke with a keen eye is key here. Going faster means nothing for me except for going back. Many people could do better with a better brush if one takes time to put a little quality in front of the brush. Otherwise a monkey can use a mop. But quality does not seem to be in many peoples vocab, but speed sure does. i guess it's good in the production world but we have been out of that market so long I wouldn't know. Guess thats where the saying " can't see it from my house" comes from.


Shortly after doing exterior house painting, I started learning to do brushed shellac and lacquer finishes on furniture. If the temp is up, you better be going fast, or it won't level at all and you'll have nothing but brush marks. But you still have to have an otherwise flawless, even finish. 

There's an inherent benefit to going as fast as possible while still laying down a good coat - superior leveling, less brush marks. A brush that will hold a really good paint load with the right stiffness and control for what you're doing saves a huge amount of time. Paints that don't level well really need a less stiff brush than ones that do. That alone will sometimes make me keep some of my more expensive (and stiffer) brushes in the box and use a less expensive brush like a Silver Tip that is more flexible. That's where cheap paints make for an expensive paint job.....


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## kingcarpenter (Jan 30, 2015)

*what tools do you require your painters to have*

So now we have jumped from tract boxes to finishing furniture. I'ts early here but somehow I can't put those two in the same thread. I guess it is all about speed and no looking ahead in your market. I thought your area was hell bent on quality but like my daughter tells me I'm still living in the old days. Sorry to jack the thread here.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

kingcarpenter said:


> So now we have jumped from tract boxes to finishing furniture. I'ts early here but somehow I can't put those two in the same thread.


No jump, it's all high quality brush work. There is always a best brush, best load technique, best brush technique to get the best possible results for a given product. I've seen painters use the wrong brush and go too slow to get interior trim painted with minimal brush marks with the product they were using.

We have some really good painters and many more so so painters. There are a lot of situations where you can't have high quality brush work without going fast. Traditional panel doors are probably one of the hardest with most latex paints - no lap marks, very light brush marks parallel to the grain of each part of the door is the desired finish around here. High speed and high control.


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## maxwage (Nov 25, 2012)

I've worked for employers who expected the basics and and one that frowned upon it but eventually relented.

I'm still a youngin' (31) but I'm in the camp that any serious tradesmen should have basics.

I'm a carpenter by trade. It is expected you have at least a bag, hammer, tape, chalkline, square, knife, punch, chisel, cats paw or trim bar and pencil. Maybe a small adjustable for changing saw blades, and small spring clamp for snapping lines solo.

There are personal tools. I think it speaks to how committed an employee is if they have decent stuff and always have these items.

For someone green, sure getting them some basics is in order.

Have your own chit as an employee makes you a better worker and more of an asset IMO. It makes your job easier = more productive. Plus you use what you prefer and are comfortable with instead of an employer providing you with something you might not like.

I am primarily working for a comm. employer now. In addition to the above, minus a chisel, I carry snips, some smaller vise grip clamps and a magnetic stud finder, which will find steel studs through 5/8s rock, 2" rigid foam, sheathing, etc.

I also have generally supplied my own impact and drill, because that is a personal tool and I prefer my own. They have screw guns to use if you don't want to use your own, but for most applications I come across, I prefer an impact. Tips, nut runners etc are supplied.

Said boss who didn't prefer his employees having tools, we did quite a few paint jobs and he provided all brushes, frames, roller covers, etc, all sundries, which I would expect. Unless they supply crap brushes, and you're not only a decent painter, but paid well, would I provide my own. I quality brush taken care of properly can last more then a few jobs.

But I do see driftweed's post and the OP. I guess it really depends on the quality and skill level of the employees you hire.

Persons who are serious about their trade (career) will have a few of their own and treat yours with respect. Those who are just there to get a check or worse, are substance abusers and just generally bad people, will "forget" their basics or lose, mistreat or steal yours.

Bottom line, I think it really shows how committed someone is to their trade if they have at a minimum the basic hand tools every day for their job. Nothing is worse then someone borrowing your tape when you may need it or you are not convenient to the truck, box etc and said tool isn't on them or at home.

A serious painter will at least a small bag with hammer, punches, tape, maybe a small sanding block, and on them at all times, a 5 in 1.

You should provide poles, but make it clear, they disappear, so does your job.

Brushes too. It doesn't take long at all to properly wash and spin a brush


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## Driftweed (Nov 7, 2012)

I just don't think it should be MANDATORY for you to use your tools to make someone else money. That is just hackish to me.

Now, if you WANT to use your stuff go ahead.

Example: I just got a rotozip to speed up drywall work. My helper hates it, & brought in his multimeter tool thingy. Said he likes it better, so to reciprocate I offered to replace any blades he wears out. 

He brought his Milwaukee drill set, & I bought it off him. 

My employees paycheck should not be spent back on tools they need to perform work for me. That's just wrong to make them do that.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Driftweed said:


> I just don't think it should be MANDATORY for you to use your tools to make someone else money. That is just hackish to me.


The question is where people draw the line, and I don't disagree with where you draw yours, it's what I do with helpers. I think the 1099 "employee" is a lot more hackish than the whole question of a few inexpensive tools.

I also think that the pay can have something to do with it.


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

I've always supplied my own hand tools as an employee. At least as soon as I was past being a helper. I've painted in 6 differnt states from Washington to georgia. I've always thought it was standard procedure. It is interesting to see how other people do it differently. I don't think anyone is a hack just because they run their company differently than I run mine though.


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## JR Shepstone (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm not understanding this thinking.

We've seen the threads on here where a contractor comes on and complains about how his help is always borrowing his chalk box, and tape, and pencil, and hammer, and nail set, etc. The masses then tell him to formulate a minimum list of tools that each employee and new hire is expected to have with them at all times, lest they be suspended, fired, mocked by their peers, flogged, or all of the above.

Then, we have the high and mighty painters (sarcasm) come on and ask what they should expect their help to carry, and some don't expect them to provide, of all things, at the very minimum, a paint brush. 

I'm just not getting this. Why can't a painter be expected to have one or two brushes, a roller frame, a 5-in-1, and an extension pole? I've heard the argument that they shouldn't be required to use _THEIR_ tools to make _SOMEONE ELSE_ money. But at the same time, carpenters are _EXPECTED_ to provide their own hand tools, to perform their daily tasks to make someone else money.

What am I not understanding? Did I pick the wrong trade?


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## RMcMaken (Jun 30, 2014)

Not a painter but I ask for a list of tools before even interviewing in person and that is taken into consideration when negotiating employment and pay. It's not unreasonable to expect a person in the industry to have at minimum what most DIY people have. I have a beater set of tools for my helper but usually I end up giving them tools here and there and buying new ones for myself so within a few months they're usually pretty well outfitted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

JR Shepstone said:


> What am I not understanding? Did I pick the wrong trade?


It's a little trickier than carpentry. On top of that, there is a lot of leeway on the general topic, no matter the trade. Painting is a process, and the tools and techniques matter. Some will only use specific paints with specific tools, consumables, and techniques. They either supply everything to their employees, or the employees pay for some basic tools and the rest is supplied.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

JR Shepstone said:


> I'm not understanding this thinking.
> 
> We've seen the threads on here where a contractor comes on and complains about how his help is always borrowing his chalk box, and tape, and pencil, and hammer, and nail set, etc. The masses then tell him to formulate a minimum list of tools that each employee and new hire is expected to have with them at all times, lest they be suspended, fired, mocked by their peers, flogged, or all of the above.
> 
> ...


Big difference between carpenter tools and painter tools. Brushes, even 5 in 1's wear out much faster than a hammer and tape. Unless all you're painting is apartments with the same color everyday a painter needs more than 2 brushes, I have about 30 different sizes, angle, wall, straight, soft, stiff, oil, latex, etc.

Biggest issue is painters that don't know how to clean and take care of a brush. Those painters are a dime a dozen and should be buying their own tools to screw up.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

avenge said:


> wear out much faster than a hammer and tape.



I've seen people ruin a tape in a day:sad:


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

hdavis said:


> I've seen people ruin a tape in a day:sad:


That's because it was a painter using it.:laughing:


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## Knight-Builder (Feb 19, 2015)

I've never heard of a decent painter that didn't supple his own brushes (not saying they don't exist). Moreover, the painters I've used (myself included) consider another person using their brushes to be punishable by death! If another guy picked up my coronas or Hamilton perfections, I'd have a small fit.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Knight-Builder said:


> I've never heard of a decent painter that didn't supple his own brushes (not saying they don't exist). Moreover, the painters I've used (myself included) consider another person using their brushes to be punishable by death! If another guy picked up my coronas or Hamilton perfections, I'd have a small fit.


I handed a Corona to a helper - they messed it up, so I gave it away and bought another one. If I can't buy an identical brush, I don't let anyone use it. I have one of those because I need one of those...


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## summithomeinc (Jan 3, 2011)

JR Shepstone said:


> What am I not understanding? Did I pick the wrong trade?


Nope, You're not a painter so you picked the right trade.

When I was an employee I was required to have a caulk gun, putty knife, or 5-in-one now, hammer, Nail set, 2 3" brushes, 2 2 1/2" brushes, and a duster. Thats what I remember off the top of my head and all I would probably ask my own guys to bring. everything else was supplied by my employer. My personal bag also had band-aids, baby oil, vaseline, brush comb, wire brush, 2-3 door chocks, small screwdriver for towel bars, phillips and standard screw drivers, chanel locks, Hand masker, side cutters, small flat bar,and various other small items I found helpful throughout the day.

I also carried sandpaper, caulk, putty, tape and other items supplied by the company. Usually I never had to run to the van or set up area for anything. It was noticed that I was more productive and I was compensated well for it.

I think all professional painters should carry a similar bag and I'm going to implement that on my jobs. Maybe over a few weeks period. My helper has a bag I provided. If he loses tools in it he will need to replace them.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I would think a real painter, not a paycheck taker, would always want to supply thier own brushes and roller frames. I know I would. My brushes are like my hammer, my trim bar or my drywall trowels. They are what I use as part if my profession. I am used to them and they allow me to do better work.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

VinylHanger said:


> I would think a real painter, not a paycheck taker, would always want to supply thier own brushes and roller frames.


I'd be OK with it if I was being supplied with the best for the job. For brushes, that varies. Roller frames and poles are another question - I do think there are some "best" ones no matter what the job. 

If I was having people use 13" covers on a 9" frame, I'd supply those frames because they have to be modified to work well .


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## krittterkare (Mar 3, 2015)

I have around 6 brushes that have been in pretty heavy use for about 5 years and if taken care of and a biannual trimming perform well. the idea od spending 5 minutes to clean vs. buying cheaper brushes to throw away never made sense to me at least because you are using a lower quality brush.
Same with roller covers, buy the cheap ones and spending 10 minutes to clean or throw away or buying higher quality covers and cleaning takes moments. 

I think employees should have the basics like a scraper and masker and a basic brush and roller set ups and the employer should have the specialty items that are not used everyday, it will soon become apparent the the worker what he needs to own as a matter of convenience as borrowing is inconvenient and every painter should own a drill, not just for painting but because he is a man.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

The only difference between a painter and a puppy is the puppy stops whining after 6 months ... Just give em a brush and a ladder!!!


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Definitely a brush because they dont respect any of mine. Even after the "how to care for" speech


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## Caslon (Dec 15, 2007)

A "hired hand" painter with 15- 20 years on the team probably has a brush he prefers while he's doing hours of quality enamel trim work for you. As for putty knives and roller naps missing...eh. Overhead.


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## CarrPainting (Jun 29, 2010)

basic set of hand tools, 5 in 1... knife, a set of knives...

I prefer they dont bring their own tools as I dont want to A) be responsible for their stuff, and B) I dont want their stuff mixing with mine.


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