# Going Union



## digiconsoo (Apr 23, 2012)

I cannot identify that - what is it?


----------



## Youngin' (Sep 16, 2012)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> View attachment 219042
> 
> This was done by a union "journeyman"
> Out of the 12 carpenters they sent us, this guy was the best.


I remember that photo. What can you really say about that? Ridiculous. 

Peanut butter rail.


----------



## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

digiconsoo said:


> I cannot identify that - what is it?



It was a stained maple railing cap. There was a butt joint, and nail holes that needed to be filled and sanded smooth. Aaaannnnndddd that is what he did!


----------



## digiconsoo (Apr 23, 2012)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> It was a stained maple railing cap. There was a butt joint, and nail holes that needed to be filled and sanded smooth. Aaaannnnndddd that is what he did!



I have no words appropriate to my level of disgust.


----------



## TaylorMadeAB (Nov 11, 2014)

digiconsoo said:


> I have no words appropriate to my level of disgust.



I know right...
The worst part is that because he was Union, it would've been impossible to fire him.


----------



## pritch (Nov 2, 2008)

EricBrancard said:


> That's where I draw my line in the sand.


Don't panic-they changed their mind on this one. I have the newspaper article that says so stuck to my fridge:laughing:


----------



## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

TaylorMadeCon said:


> View attachment 219042
> 
> This was done by a union "journeyman"
> Out of the 12 carpenters they sent us, this guy was the best.


That is so very sad.
It makes me mad and feeds my misanthropy.

Thanks for the replies and insights.
It will take me some time to read through Chris' link on the Union collective agreement and absorb all of this.

I know that IF I actually decide to go Union, my operations would change dramatically, but I think I could swing it. That's not what worries me. 

Out of curiosity...back when I was 18 years old, I walked into local 183 along with my friend to see what it was all about. The first question the guy behind the counter asked me was "Are you Italian or portuguese?". I said no, and he was basically like "Well then you're pretty much **** out of luck".

Is there anything to that? I've had this gnawing suspicion that if I'm not Italian/Portuguese...I'm out of the loop. Does that still go on today? Would they cut me out if I'm not? I know one my guys who was in Local 27 told me about some incidents of racism, but he said 27 isn't as bad as 183...27 actually hires some black guys...you'll never see a black guy at 183 (that's what he said).

Anything to that?


----------



## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Heritage said:


> ....
> Anything to that?


Prejudice and favoritism exist everywhere in this world, but I'd be surprised if it kept a union from adding an employer. In that sense, I don't see how it would be your problem.

As far as being "out of the loop", what reason would you have to expect to be "in the loop"? That's not an implied criticism of the union, but a question about your expectations.


----------



## Tom thumb (Aug 29, 2015)

I'm a union tin knocker, the reason why the union carpenters don't know anything but one part of the trade is that it's so broken down in their union. You have a guy who only frames, only drywalls, only wood frames , only tin can frames, only muds the drywall. It's ridiculous


----------



## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

Heritage said:


> That is so very sad.
> It makes me mad and feeds my misanthropy.
> 
> Thanks for the replies and insights.
> ...


Me and chris can tell you all about both of those "organizations".. I just won't do it on a public forum.


----------



## FramingPro (Jan 31, 2010)

I had a journeyman union carpenter awestruck when i was able to bevel plywood at 22.5* for a 45* corner... Uhhh, wait what?


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

FramingPro said:


> I had a journeyman union carpenter awestruck when i was able to bevel plywood at 22.5* for a 45* corner... Uhhh, wait what?


You don't just cut them both at 45 and lap them?


----------



## rjconstructs (Apr 26, 2009)

You may have to give up your nail guns...they take a job away from another person. (told to me by a union carpenter).


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

No you cut 1 pc at a 45 and butt a straight cut into it...easier


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

So the union tells me (the company owner) what tasks a worker can and cannot do 

My journeyman cannot sweep the floor at the end of the day, that is a labourers job, he cannot unload materials from the delivery truck, nor can he do a 'job' that another union member can do.

So let's look at our projects

We need (A) to unload the truck, (B) to set forms, (C) to tie rebar, (A) to set scaffold, (A or D) to place concrete, (B) to strip forms after pour, (A) to clean up, and if we are doing a suspended slab we will need (E) for the shoring

That's 5 trades, and with no one being allowed under the unions rules to do another persons job would add weeks to the timeframe and/or double or triple the crew size required.

The slab we just poured last week (see Pickles 23 Unit thread) the electricians (union boys) start at 7 and quit at 3 everyday, would have not made the schedule had we not lent a hand (at no cost keep in mind) to pull conduit with them to get it done. Had my crew been union this would not have happened and fortunately the electrician foreman was okay with us helping in this task as it was just conduit and tying it to the rebar cage.

I prefer a diversified work force, this is not an option with the union, you cannot wander outside your job classification, yes the union training centre is good, it can teach guys the craft very well (it is a very well funded training centre) but they install blinders on the workers as well and breed them with the attitude of this what is and what isn't there job.


----------



## slowsol (Aug 27, 2005)

Your unions must be a lot different than those around here. We are in one of the most heavily unionized areas of the US and do not have those issues on job sites.


----------



## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

The Union here means you have to work your ass off or your down the road. And you'd better know what the hell your doing.


----------



## Chris Johnson (Apr 19, 2007)

Read the previous links I posted...that's the way it is


----------



## pritch (Nov 2, 2008)

I remember one time, maybe 1988-ish, I was working for a guy here in Salt Lake and somehow he got the flatwork on this little 4-story in San Diego. I think it was something to do with the medical school portion of UCSD, but I don't remember it being on campus. At any rate, the first pour we made was the basement. We were the only non-union workers on the job, and pretty much the rest of the trades didn't have a kind word to say. The guys tying rebar ahead of us were fairly cool, but the erectors were openly hostile. Seeems like each floor was about 10,000 sq ft, and on that first pour, pretty soon the mud quit coming. We sent a laborer up to find out WTH, and he never came back. So it takes another 15 or 20 minutes to get all caught up and we all go up to see WTH, and there's our laborer eating lunch with the pump operator. He says the pumper said we wasn't getting any more mud 'till after lunch, so he decided to eat, too. There were several mixers lined up and waiting for lunch to be over, also.

2 days later, we poured the first slab on deck. Around here, the pumper usually has a couple bags of sand mix that he mixes up to prime his pump with. There, the pumper ain't allowed to do this, so the first mixer brings a slurry to prime with. 4 yard minimum. And he can't (or won't) take any of it back, so we have to find a place for 4 yds of what amounts to flow-fill. It was that way for the next 3 deck pours. 

I don't know if those guys were just messin' with us, or if that was really how it was, but we just laughed it off. Whatever. We were still having a working vacation in SD during the winter:thumbup:


----------

