# Who's moving up to Windows Vista?



## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Nobody? Anybody? I'm not sure, but I'm betting ole Mr. Gates isn't too happy as the first reviews are hitting the papers and it seems like most of what they are saying is don't bother. I've heard everything from waste of money, to most people can't run it anyways because of the 1 -2 gig of ram recommendations, or just to wait and when you buy a new computer some day get it then.

Doesn't seem to be any killer features with it to make it a must have.


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Not me! IMHO they never really got Win98 worked out!:whistling


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Somewhere I posted an email that Quickbooks sent me saying that I would have to upgrade to QB07 or my version would not work with vista. So no vista for me unless someone can show me how it will rock my world.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

No interest here. Plus, anybody who downloads/buys something brand new from M$ is a fool. Best to wait for all the bugs and crap to get worked out. Maybe I'll look at it after they release Service Pack 7 or whatever for it. 

Sidenote, Nathan just bought a laptop with it, maybe he'll give a review soon.


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

ProWallGuy said:


> Sidenote, Nathan just bought a laptop with it, maybe he'll give a review soon.


Yea, I just ordered it from HP tonight. I've needed a new laptop for a while and have been waiting for Vista to come out to upgrade. I'm a sucker for new tech.

I've played with it in the store and I like it. It's not a huge change (still windows) but there is a lot of eye candy and media stuff to play with. I like how everything "flows". 

I'll let you guys know how it is once I get it. It's going to take 2 weeks or so for me to get it since it's a custom order.


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

BUY A MAC.

Best computer by far. They seem scary but they are way easier than a Windows PC. I can Do everything you do on a windows OS on my MAC easier than you can on your PC. WORD,PP,EXCEL....... everything! and its faster and easier. 

My MAC gets NO viruses so i dont have to buy virus protection every year like you do. My mac never crashes and i keep it on for weeks at a time. Its so simple because the guys who design the mac computers are like me and you they want the best in every aspect of a computer, so they design macs to be just about perfect! There is only one MAC.

I tell you what just give mac a try! Go to apple.com and go to the operating system page and check out the demos.


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

I have tried to get used to a Mac and really thought about getting one this time but I just can't get used to it. 
I'm sure if I was new to computers it would be a good move but I just know Windows so well it's a big jump for me. Also, they are too expensive.


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## Rich Wozny (Aug 18, 2005)

just get some windex, and clean up your old windows...


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Just convert and buy one they are quite a-bit cheaper Apples to Apples.

Just Buy one it will force you to learn, and once you learn you will be like "This is 10x easier and better than windows" I still get on windows PC's like @ my folks(soon to be converted because of crashes and viruses) but they are just so much harder to work on Xp is slow and workflow is slow. MAC=Faster more productive


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## BlenderWizard (Mar 21, 2006)

i dunno, but how is gaming on a mac? That, and, AFAIK, I can't put a mac together from parts. Keep your PC.

I am thinking of going to Linux, though


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## Danahy (Oct 17, 2006)

I'm waiting on vista..stickin' to XP for now. My P4 still runs great, think I'll get atleast another 2 yrs out of her. I like the fact of getting more candy to chew on, as I'm sort of a closet techie.

Am also leaning towards a Mac for my next buy. I am totally used to windows, and am ok with it, but as time goes on, techie things start to get buggy... I'm looking to ease into something alittle more stable like a Mac.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

As far as Mac vs PC, it's not really about the computer, it's about the software isn't it?

I heard Office runs like crap on Mac and that even after all this time the lack of software available for Macs is still their biggest problem. If the answer is to use the Mac and emulate a PC with a dual boot, forget it, why bother with a Mac if all you are going to do is pretend it's a PC? I don't have an Ipod or use my computer to hang out at coffee shops with the hipsters it's only for making money so I'm probably more like the dumpy guy on the Mac commercials than the cool guy.


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## Danahy (Oct 17, 2006)

Mac's aren't soo bad. They kinda blow, but seem to be more for a specific crowd. I signed up to help kids learn how to use the computer at my daughters school 8 years ago... When I got there, I was floored to find they were using Mac's... What the?... Anyhow, The biggest thing I found is that Mac puts things where windows doesn't, and sometimes the same function that windows has, Mac just calls it something else.

Around here we need;
music for the kids
photo's (before and afters + family photos)
My programs to run QB's and such....
Maybe a game or two.

It may just look like a comfortable couch to me at the moment, that's just my opinion of where I see myself a few years down the road. Haven't given up totally on windows just yet, although I still find myself waking up in the middle of the night, cold sweats, thinking that one day the blue screen of death will once again come along and ruin my life...


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## pn70 (Jun 11, 2006)

I'm a fool, but have always been a computer geek on the side.

I did buy the Vista upgrade the other day, backed up all my important files to DVD's, added another gig of memory and started the install. Trying to get the install going was not so easy, Vista did not have an appropriate driver for my SATA controller so I had to download the correct driver and then the Vista install went well. The only weird thing that happened was once the install was done, my DVD/CD player mysteriously stopped working. This is the DVD/CD player that Vista installed from, never showed an issue while installing, just stopped reading any media after the install...WEIRD. I spent many hours trying to research online for potential driver issues in regards to CD/DVD player, updated driver, flashed mother board BIOS to the latest update and none of these brought my player back to life. Finally...I ripped out the DVD/CD player from my kids computer and temporarily hooked it up to my pc and was happy to see their player worked. Then I hooked up my non-functioning player to the kids XP machine and it did not work on that pc either so i just summed it up to weird timing of hardware failure.

So I purchased a new DVD/CD player burner from best buy and everything is finally good.

Initial impressions on Vista....it's very intuitive, it is better designed to accomodate the way we use digital media (photos, music, movies, etc...) and my kids found it more intuitive as I would have expected.

I build a new PC every year for myself and always give my old PC to my kids which is a nice upgrade for them :thumbup: 

My pc only had 1 gig of memory, so I installed another gig before the Vista install just to make sure the pc was not going to struggle. 1 gig is recommended but I believe the PC would struggle a bit with only a gig.

My recommendation to you guys is to wait it out and if you cannot wait, buy a new pc with Vista already on it unless you are a computer geek and enjoy the challenge or if you recently purchased your pc, it should upgrade with minimal issues. I don't think I'd upgrade any computer to Vista over 3 years old.

I will keep you guys updated as time goes by but so far the fresh look and more intuitive features are very welcomed.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon with microsoft. The thing that angers me the most is they are making DirectX 10 exclusive to Vista. That means if you buy a video card with DX10 capability, and want to play DX10 games you will be forced to upgrade. I'm sick of microsoft, but there is no way in hell I'm switching to a mac.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

AAPaint said:


> I'm not jumping on the bandwagon with microsoft. The thing that angers me the most is they are making DirectX 10 exclusive to Vista. That means if you buy a video card with DX10 capability, and want to play DX10 games you will be forced to upgrade. I'm sick of microsoft, but there is no way in hell I'm switching to a mac.


LOL, you're getting squeezed by the 'man' from both sides!:laughing:


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

Not all that long ago I upgraded to XP from Windows 95 (computer on for over a year without a crash or having to reboot), only because of USB/Firewire and hardware. It'll be the same for Vista, I won't do it until I have no choice. I miss DOS and if they made enough software I'd use Unix, Mac would be my last choice, I was offered a "nice" Mac for free and turned it down.


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## Double-A (Jul 3, 2006)

Intel givith and Microsoft taketh away. 

Seems to be the way of the computer chip world. Just when you have more processor power and speedy RAM than the software can use, Microsoft decides it needs 80 processes to start its operating system, instead of about 20.

{sigh}


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Double-A said:


> Intel givith and Microsoft taketh away.
> 
> Seems to be the way of the computer chip world. Just when you have more processor power and speedy RAM than the software can use, Microsoft decides it needs 80 processes to start its operating system, instead of about 20.
> 
> {sigh}


WORD


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2007)

Mike Finley said:


> If the answer is to use the Mac and emulate a PC with a dual boot, forget it, why bother with a Mac if all you are going to do is pretend it's a PC?


With any new Mac you buy, the Intel processor allows you to RUN Windows, not just emulate it like the old chip. And, from personal experience, I can tell you it blows most PCs away.

I have a Mac laptop and a Windows desktop, but I definately prefer the Mac.

The thing that kind of sucks with Macs is how often they update the operating system. I'm still using OS 10.3.9, and 10.4 has been out for a long time already. 10.5 is not that far off! At over 100 bucks a pop to have the very latest, it's not worth it.

Ben


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2007)

mickeyco said:


> I miss DOS and if they made enough software I'd use Unix, Mac would be my last choice, I was offered a "nice" Mac for free and turned it down.


OS X IS Unix!! You can run any Unix app out there on it!

Ben


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

I bet all you PC guys love your little mouses to help you navigate through all your files, HUH!!!! Well guess what APPLE created the mouse! if it wasnt for Apple we would not have a mouse. Apple created the first PC too!! 

Okay Listen: Bill Gates(Microsoft)Software Guy and Steve Jobs(Apple)Hardware Guy were partners and said we should create personal computers. Well Gates said i want to separate and just create a bunch of software. Jobs said okay dude whatever im just going to create awesome hardware and software that is revolutionary. So Jobs comes up with the original PC, Mouse, iPod, iPhone that most of you probably have no clue about, http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf07/ Check it out the "iPhone introduction" amazing

That said there have been many non-biased reviews for Vista vs. Mac OS. Guess what? Mac wins hands down, and this is against Mac's old OS, this year Apple releases there newest MAC OS its even better. Heck windows vista is a direct rip-off of Mac's OS but it still just runs crappier, Watch this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM (Microsoft always copies Apple look at the crappy Zune)

Im not trying to be a turd on here but i want you guys to know that there is something out there that is better. Just try it! Go to there website and check it out! TAKE A RISK!

Most of you are stubborn, but one thing i see common in You is that You want the Best. Why settle for less when there is something far better? Im trying to help! Mac's are designed for us! Business guys!


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## pn70 (Jun 11, 2006)

lol Troy....

I'd say most windows people would probably be running Mac's if more software applications were written for the Mac OS.

I would definitely be runnning it because I do like it a lot more, just not practical for me and the majority of others.

I think if most software company's provided software for the Mac OS then most would definitely be using mac instead of windows.

Bottomline is...windows is practical for most, mac is not.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Macs blow. I build all my own computers, of which I have 6 right now. Getting me to switch to mac will never happen.


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Your funny, actually Windows kinda Blows Ive built plenty of PCs myself but just got tired of crashes, hunting down New Drivers to make it run better, viruses and buying new virus software every freaking year, Thats Gay. But i do admit that buildings PC's is fun and exciting. keep your PC. 
Just trying to help, Guy.

I dont want apple to make lots of software. See Apple believes in making a few perfect software Apps, thats It! With Windows you get 1 million software Apps and none of them work right or they are missing something. Windows is just out to make a Dollar, Mac is out to make something that is Perfect and run Right!. 

Apple has very few software applications compared with Microsoft, your right, but Your wrong, very wrong You Can Do Anything you want on a MAC, Run a business on it, Make another Napoleon Dynamite Movie, make a Word document, Whatever you want. Dont say stuff unless you know for a FACT. Just remember when you run the few Apple software Apps they are going to be perfect. I beg you to challenge them, Do a PC vs MAC side by side comparison. 

Go to an Apple store near you and ask for a quick Demonstration. You will be amazed!!! 

Last but not least If you are looking to buy a computer please just check out a Mac. Go TO This Link and just take 10min and read the whole page. http://www.apple.com/getamac/

thanks guys


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

did anyone else download vista when the RC1 version was offered for download on the microsoft website? I have the software, I've just been to lazy not to mention low on space to load it. when I get my new harddrive I'm going to load it on a dual boot with XP


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## mdshunk (Mar 13, 2005)

I try to purposely stay a few operating system versions behind, so that when I do upgrade, all the bugs and security issues have already been ironed out.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

While I'm out of town here staying at a friends house, i have been forced to use his Mac. Maybe its just something that would take awhile to get use to, but I really don't dig it. I'm a mouse guy, not a keyboard guy. With the PC's right click functions, I can get stuff done, like quick copy/paste, etc. No right click here. This Mac doesn't seem much faster or better than my PC. ho hum, blah blah, I'll stick with what I'm happy with.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2007)

gcajnr21, looks like it's just me and you. We'll be the resident Mac guys who are viewed as weird geeks, but just quietly keep getting things done.

The thing that I LOVE about my Mac is that do work with it, instead of on it.

Ben


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

I love how for years mac claimed that they had the top hardware, then came out one day and said that they had a great new breakthrough- that mac ran way better on pc components. that and that the best upgrade about the new macs it it's ability to run as a dual boot with windows. 

I love the new mac ad where the pc guy is getting an "upgrade" to a camera, and the mac guy points out that macs have the camera built in, mainly because my windows laptop had that feature three years ago- way to be real innovative mac.


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Ben76, Yeah its funny we try to help people but they always stay closed minded and never really give MAC a try or learn how to use them. You cant learn how to run a Mac in one weekend, by yourself. Its like saying OH i dont like building houses Because i tried it one weekend and it just sucked, it blew because i could never get the tape measure to stay in place, it just kept sliding off the wood. HA HA

Oh well Ben76 im glad that MAC's/Apple is still a best kept secret, Everyone just stay away from Mac's,

iPods suck they are hard to turn ON! 

The new iPhone that hasnt come out yet, dont get it its worse than a Blackberry, its just a plain phone. 

Macbooks, geese they are real bulky/Thick and dont look good at all. 

Oh the MAC Mini its slower than every PC out there and it the size of my FIST, come on, retarded. 

Apple iTV is dumb, who wants to download DVD quality movies and shows to it and watch them on any size TV, Ill just go to Blockbuster or Walmart and Buy them on CD. I like having 500 DVD's i my living room taking up space. Oh not to mention searching for that ONE DVD.

im mean who wants a simpler life!!!

Later


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Why's it gotta be retarded? The truth is, a lot of people prefer pc's. My machines run flawlessly with everything I throw at them. If I want to get away from microsoft, I'd go to an open source OS like Linux before I'd bother with a mac. 

Don't get so bent out of shape over it. I think you care too much what everyone else is doing. If we find ourselves happy with pc's, then so be it.


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## reveivl (May 29, 2005)

I've never had a mac, but am not averse to trying it out. I got into computers for drawing, using autocad, which didn't, at the time, run on a mac, or so I understood. Can you run most/all software on either now?


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## ron schenker (Dec 11, 2005)

I'm still happy with my 8088 but will probably upgrade to a 286 this year:laughing: I might even splurge and get a color monitor


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2007)

gcajnr21, it's funny now, but I really struggled with laying out the bucks for my Powerbook.

My younger brother was VERY much against it. "No, no, Macs suck!"

He entered school as an art student a year later and they assigned him (you know it's coming) an iBook.

He LOVED it, and has moved up to a Macbook recently. This from a confirmed Mac hater.

My family's first computer was an Apple PowerPC running System 7.
It was pretty terrible. It came out right before Steve Jobs came back as CEO of Apple. Windows XP was a breath of fresh air compared to that monster.

I think it's funny how some guys here think that Macs are all keyboard, no right click, blah, blah, blah... I use a wireless Bluetooth 3 button mouse that works great, and guess what? It has right click, wheel scrolling, center click, etc...

gcajnr21, do you use Quicksilver?

http://quicksilver.blacktree.com/

If you get used to it, you'll feel naked without it! Give it a try.

Another GREAT Mac feature is Expose. Seems like fluff, works beautifully. Especially great for those without a lot of screen real estate.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's really enjoyable to see another Mac guy here!

Ben


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## Glasshousebltr (Feb 9, 2004)

Troy ....Ben ......You guys are right ......Mac kicks ass ......So put in another 8 track and jam on brothers!:laughing::w00t::jester:

Bob


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2007)

Bob- LOL
8 tracks are so Windows 95...


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## pn70 (Jun 11, 2006)

This is typical of Mac guys to bash Windows users and what upsets me is that most window users have respect for mac's. I tried the mac, loved it but was not practical for me, did not care to dual boot or run a simulated version of windows within the mac. Use what you like, use whatever floats your boat but don't bash others for using windows.


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

OK, im sorry for bashing Windows. 

Never buy a MAC!


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

Whatever works...
You can get so much into tech, you forget what you are.
Now repeat after me:

"I am a contractor"

It's a tool to run a business.
There are couple of businesses out there doing fine using windows.
Some are fine using Mac too.
I use my PC to:
Do what I am doing this second
Communicate with clients, vendors etc.
Surf the Net
Write proposals, work orders
Use Quickbooks
Send and receive faxes
Send Change orders, Completion forms and Invoices
Update my website when I have time.

What else am I missing by not using a MAC? (As a contractor)

These are someone else's battles, not our own.
Try and get an agreement on the following, you can't.

Ford or GM
Quaker State or Penzoil
Mac or PC
Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams
Coke or Pepsi
Tablet or Notebook
Sony or Panasonic

Who cares, the computer is the tool, the medium

Again repeat after me:

"I am a contractor"


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## SDContractor (Jan 28, 2007)

so I'm taking it Windows 3.0 is out of date?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

George Z said:


> Whatever works...
> You can get so much into tech, you forget what you are.
> Now repeat after me:
> 
> ...



Good perspective George!

To say Apple kicks ass over a PC based on iPods, iPhone, Macbooks, MAC Mini, Apple iTV, making movies or downloading music is a waste of time unless you are making money doing all that. Personally I've found that people who promote Macs for those reasons always turn out to be people who play with computers and don't do work with them. They spend a lot more time listening to there itunes and playing dungeons and dragons then making money, now you could be the exception, I don't know.

We run spread sheets, databases, word processing programs. I could careless what my skill saw looks like, if it is painted with racing stripes or is a rust bucket, all I want it to do is do what it is supposed to do - cut wood.

Tell me how I can run spread sheets, databases and word processing programs on a Mac better than a PC, tell me how I have access to all the software I need to run my business on a Mac, then we have something to talk about on a construction forum. Okay?

Becaues the rest of all this stuff so far is about as relevant as talking about how an X-box is good or bad.


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Dude PC's are for the losers who play Games. What a Joke! I think some people should not talk about the differences between a PC/MAC!

Ive ran a PC my whole life, built them, bought, and sold them! One year ago i converted. Life Got EASIER!

The biggest difference between a Mac and PC is the Operating system. 
Find out for yourself if you want.
I can run any business with the software that is on a MAC.
I have OFFICE. big deal i barley use it.
Apple has programs that work better for Business.

As a contractor Time is precious so that is why i moved to a MAC. I dont worry about viruses. Screw McAfee and Norton, They made my PC run like Hell! I dont worry about crashes either. MAC's dont crash. If just these reasons are not enough to make you re-think your PC then im sorry. Why not make life easier

MAC vs PC is nothing like FORD vs CHEVY its more like 
MAC(Lamborghini) vs PC(Chevy)

LATER


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## George Z (Dec 23, 2004)

gcajnr21 said:


> Dude PC's are for the losers who play Games. What a Joke! I think some people should not talk about the differences between a PC/MAC!
> 
> Ive ran a PC my whole life, built them, bought, and sold them! One year ago i converted. Life Got EASIER!
> 
> ...



_*MAC(Lamborghini) vs PC(Chevy)*_

Not everyone wants a Lamborghini.
Can I put a roof rack on it?

If the world is full of chevy's that's who we sell to.

What do your proposals look like?
What do you do different than most do in Word (Lotus for us)
What do you use for a CRM program and how does the Mac have an advantage?
How do you find Quickbooks works in the Mac? Or whatever accounting software you use?

My point is:
Don't tell us what it can do, just tell us what you do


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

gcajnr21 said:


> Dude PC's are for the losers who play Games. What a Joke! I think some people should not talk about the differences between a PC/MAC!
> 
> Ive ran a PC my whole life, built them, bought, and sold them! One year ago i converted. Life Got EASIER!
> 
> ...


Once again 90% of what you are posting is irrelevant. 

Not worried about crashes or viruses, that stuff has no effect on our productivity or useablilty of our PCs. I don't have any down time as a result of any of that, so it's of no concern.

What programs does Apple have that are better than Office and why are they better? Let's talk some facts, some meat and potatoes, some examples please and get off all the hype and rah-rah band wagon stuff and talk about real world examples.

I'm interested to know what you are talking about. You'll do Apple a great service because myself and the majority of users of PCs all seem to be under the impression that Macs don't have the software we need.

Thanks.


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## williefb (Feb 5, 2007)

not a chance. Someone else can work out the bugs


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## mickeyco (May 13, 2006)

George Z said:


> Whatever works...
> You can get so much into tech, you forget what you are.
> Now repeat after me:
> 
> ...



Ford
Castrol
PC
Benjamin Moore
Dr Pepper
Tablet or Notebook
Panasonic


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## wackman (Nov 14, 2005)

We use Macs. Mostly because I'm computer illiterate and couldn't keep my PC's running, not because I'm a Mac Nazi like some people I've met. 

I do personally think they're better than PC's because things seem easier with them and programs flow more smoothly. I can figure out how to do things on them that I had to ask for help with on PCs and I did have problems with viruses and crashes. It's true that Macs don't really have those problems.

Kinda like if you had your own crew of exceptional craftsmen who could go into a job and just blow it out with only your job to worry about and on your schedule compared to a whole bunch of subs that you need to coordinate and keep happy/on schedule/productive. Same results, Just that much easier.

The new macs that just came out share the same new hardware (new to Macs and PCs) with most other personal computers including the windows machines and can 100% natively run ALL the programs that HPs and Dells and such can, such as AutoCad, Revit, Project and all the games if you're so inclined. Plus you can have both the windows programs and the Mac OS at the same time so really you can have the best of both worlds. You can even "build" "upgrade" or whatever you call it, your Mac now just like a Pc.

They are a little more expensive, though imho worth the extra money.

It's like a few of you said, it's just a small preference in paths along the same journey to the same goal.

Wack


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## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Gee, Who would have known this is a PC VS Mac thread!

We Are a Mac and PC company and a Mac family. I prefer the Mac. We have the PC to run Masterbuilder and 2 other construction specific programs. Construction specific software is the only reason we bought a PC.

Mac’s have MS Office. Word and Excel work as well on the Mac and I have never had any trouble converting their files to Windows files.

Word processing and document creation are all done as well with Apple Works or iWork software and several others. Unless you are using Word for complex document setup and editing. The problem then would be to change your thinking about how that is handled.

As a database program Filemaker Pro is so much better than Access you need to try it even in Windows if you want a better product. 

There is comparable software available in almost every other category, except in accounting. There is software that will do the job in accounting but it is not construction specific and big name.

You can find some excellent software to do what you need done but with a Mac it just won’t have the Intuit or Sage or MS name on it.

Making web pages, advertising pieces, presentation, drafting and drawing I think can be done easier and better on the Mac.

Now that Macs can rum both W’s and OS X with out rebooting and extra stuff we might just change back to all Mac.

Anyone looking for specific solutions for the Mac l’d be glad to help if I can.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

denick said:


> Gee, Who would have known this is a PC VS Mac thread!
> 
> We Are a Mac and PC company and a Mac family. I prefer the Mac. We have the PC to run Masterbuilder and 2 other construction specific programs. Construction specific software is the only reason we bought a PC.
> 
> ...


Thanks Nick


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

I just ordered my new 17" HP Laptop a few days ago. Before I ordered I actually drove to the Apple store and took about an hour to try and get used to a Mac. I actually wanted to buy one. I like some of Apples products (iPod for example) and I have been wanting to start shooting video for the web and I knew that Apple has some great video editing tools. 

Anyways, after going to the Mac store I didn't buy for the following reasons:

The Mac was about $1000 more than an equally equipped PC. I need an 17" laptop for a number of reasons so a Mac Book would not do.
I already own about $1500 worth of software that I would have to buy again for the Mac if I switched (Office, Studio 8, etc..). I know you can run it in boot-camp, parallels, or terminal but that isn't something I want to do.
There is NO right click! This drives me nuts and really gets down to one of the major issues I have with Apple. They are so concerned with design that they often leave out things I need. I use right click a lot in coding so the only way I could use the laptop was to hook up an external mouse which I didn't like. YES... I know you can use the command key or two fingers or whatever but I don't want a work around I want it to work.
No media card reader. Once again Macs often have a lack of options and I use my media card reader a lot. I often get the feeling that Apple knows best when I use their products. You either love it or hate it.
Dual hard dives is not an option. This won't be an issue for most people but my data is very important and my new laptop has two hard drives running raid so if one dies the other is there as a mirror. Not an option on Mac that I know of.
The idea that Macs are more stable and faster than PCs was eliminated while I was in the store. The Mac I was using loaded a lot of programs very slowly (Photoshop, Word, etc..) and it CRASHED on me. This was a fully loaded Mac Pro so I have no idea what the problem was but I had it freeze. Maybe it had a non-existent Mac virus or something?
Last... I HATE the interface. :laughing: Yea, this is what really kept me from buying a Mac. I hate how when I open a program it's not all together in a window. The controls are up top, the tools are floating somewhere, and the application is just a window in the middle. Every time I opened a program I would have to get back out of it and and minimize everything on the desktop so it wouldn't distract me from what I was doing. I find Apple's window system VERY annoying. Once again I'm sure there is a way to fix OS X but I didn't see an easy way to do it and I shouldn't have to fix anything... it should just work.
I also hate the tool bar on the bottom and how it got in the way all the time.
I agree that Apple (in the past few years) has been a better innovator than Microsoft. I hear a lot of Mac users using the fact that Apple came up with the idea first as a reason why I should be buying a Mac. For me I could care less who invented it, I care about who made it the most useful and easiest to use.

I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm more comfortable with a PC than a Mac. I consider myself a power user and switching to a new OS is a huge deal for me. I think I would be taking too many steps backward. Also I really do like options when it comes to hardware and with Apple it seems like it's their way or the highway.


I'll let you guys know how Vista is once I get my new laptop in the mail.


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Finally some people that can explain things better than me!

Guess we should start a "Who runs a MAC thread" 

Sorry for the intrusion with my MAC's are better kinda ruined this thread for windows Vista. Really i am sorry.

Nathan im sorry you didnt know how to properly run and understand the interface...... But if you just hit F9 button it will put every App thats open in its own little window, so you can see everything your working on at one time! You can, minimize every window but that is the harder windows way of doing things. 

Macbooks do have right click its called (control click) or buy a mighty mouse, it has right click as well. 

If you have ever worked with any big name GOOD video editing programs Like Toaster/Razor or Final Cut Pro They all have the floating TOOLBARS. Dude actually every good program that is for editing anything HAS floating toolbars.Floating toolbars make it easy to make fast changes.

Media cards change size and shape all the Time Thats why Apple doesnt put one in their Laptops because oneday Your HP will get outdated and then youll just have to buy an adaptor and use your USB port anyway. 

Dual hard drives add weight who wants to lug around 50lb laptop all day. Go buy an external hard drive. 

Vista is a very similar copy of Apple OS X so get used to not liking it.


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Im making a "who has a Mac thread" Everyone lets stop hacking this Vista thread.


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

Well Troy, I don't quite get your passion for Mac but I do admit that I probably didn't know what I was doing. Either way even the little things about the OS bothered me. I almost held out for Leopard thinking that maybe they would make some major changes but then I figured people must like it already since there are so many fanboys out there so they probably aren't going to change much. Either way if I had to buy the hardware and software it was going to cost me almost $3k more to go Mac so I stayed away. I need a pretty powerful machine though and have a lot of software already so this isn't going to be the case for most people.

Frankly, if someone was new to computers I'd probably tell them to buy a Mac. I think they are great in a lot of ways... but I just can't do it. It's too different for me.

You mentioned the MacBook had a right click button but I have to have a 17" screen so MacBook Pro was the only one that woudl work. I use my laptop as more of a protable desktop and it spends most of it's time on the Kitchen table or in my office. It very rarely goes out but when it does I don't mind the weight much... it's about 8lbs with both hard drives. Also, an external hard drive cannot be used for raid.

As to your last comment:


> Vista is a very similar copy of Apple OS X so get used to not liking it.


I'm really hoping this is the case :thumbsup: . I like what apple has done I just don't like the OS X interface. I know windows very well so the combination of the two will be great... you have me sold


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## gcajnr21 (Feb 6, 2006)

Cool Nathan,

Macbook pro, will just run editing programs better, compared to my Macbook. We have a Big MacPro machine that uses Final Cut Pro. Same set-up That made the Movie Napoleon Dynamite. We also use a Macbook pro to do editing. Rendering is what kills. 

The best video software that i have used on a Windows PC and still use sometimes is called Toaster it is super cool, but it is a machine in itself. They run 30K! Really easy to use.

On a Mac the thingy on the bottom that pops up is call the DOCK, its just an easy way to access programs without clicking alot.
Windows Vista will have the same Dock because they are copiers.
Watch this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Zg_8&eurl

Anyways good luck with your HP. My sisters $2,500 Top of the Line HP laptop broke/Fried in about 5 months and BestBuy would not fix it. she even had some coverage plan.

With Apple You get awesome customer care and no hassle Full warranty. Thats what i like.


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## Diesel65 (Jan 31, 2007)

Denick, I wish I had read this before posting on another thread.
I have only owned Mac and I am having a lot of trouble trying to find a complete construction management program, I gave my son my old G6 a while ago and now just have a MacBook.

I would be glad of any advise you could give me.

To be cost effective as I see it right now I can only lean toward buying a pc for my construction needs, or should I say want's. I do not NEED full capability from a full program but would like to start out with what I hope to grow into.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

Did not even bother reading half the BS in this thead... I run XP on a P4 1.7 (its a little old) But I tweak my systems to run highly effeciant. In fact this system used to run at 98% effciancy. If I had a choice... I really would go back to DR Dos (thats Digital Research dos) I think the version I liked the most was 5.0. 

As far as mac and mac mini and stupid crap like that... Ever heard of a shuttle? It was a small PC out MANY years before the mac mini... Guess what it was same size. Nothing new there. 

Mac invented the mouse... So what keep it! I prefer the keyboard. I can get some stuff done on my keyboard. 

Ipods... Suck. I have a 4gb player that is smaller than a nano cheaper than a nano... And it has an FM tuner BUILT in, a line in record, voice recorder, plays videos, and has a longer battery life, and it plays MANY differant file formats not just one. 

As far as macs being cheaper... I call BS on that one. I speced out a computer for my church that was quite a computer... Just for kicks and grins I speced out the SAME THING in a mac... Guess what $1,700 more for the same processor, HDD, RAM, graphics card, etc etc.

AND BTW a mac is a PC because if you know anything about computers you will know that PC stands for PERSONAL COMPUTER. (in other words sized for use in a home, back when they were the size of rooms)


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## stoneanthony200 (Feb 8, 2007)

*I ordered it*

I ordered it but not sure if I will install it yet... my new Dell came with a $10 upgrade.


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## RenaissanceR (May 16, 2006)

*Windows*

[deleted]


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

i wont upgrade until pc replacement is mandated


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## ruskent (Jun 20, 2005)

I got a 17 in screen dell laptop coming with vista on it. I actually have done no research on vista and havn't the foggiest clue what new features it has.

Either way, i am excited about my new computer!


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## Nathan (Jul 21, 2003)

ruskent said:


> I got a 17 in screen dell laptop coming with vista on it. I actually have done no research on vista and havn't the foggiest clue what new features it has.
> 
> Either way, i am excited about my new computer!


I got my new 17" HP with Vista on it on Monday and so far I'm loving it. It's the little things that are nice. Everything just flows better. It's not a nessesary upgrade but I'm really glad I have it.

On a side note which Dell did you get? The E1705 or the XPS? I got the HP but I'm not sure I'm keeping it because they gave me Windows Vista 64-bit which has some issues. It should have come with 32-bit Vista but after speaking with 17 tech support people at HP I think I give up.


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## TridentOps (Feb 16, 2007)

*Yikes!*

Cant say im upgrading until im forced. I have a lot of software that I dont need broken in order to pay M$ for a shiny 'new' os. And I have been using mac and pc's since i could talk, and for some reason I went with windows. Maybe it was the power quotient. Either way, a computer is just a tool to reach you goal, so im not completly biased.


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## TridentOps (Feb 16, 2007)

*Uh...No*



gcajnr21 said:


> Dude PC's are for the losers who play Games. What a Joke! I think some people should not talk about the differences between a PC/MAC!
> 
> Ive ran a PC my whole life, built them, bought, and sold them! One year ago i converted. Life Got EASIER!
> 
> ...


Im new here, so ill be nice about this, or as nice as possible.

*Price*
For the price, you get better deals using a pc. Flat out. Apple has pretty much made it impossible to build custom systems non from apple that save you money, and dont get me started on if you want to upgrade certain components.

*Power. 
*Until RECENTLY, Macs were severly underpowered, hence the reason they COULDNT run games. They didnt have the horsepower. So when you make silly statements like 'PC's are for the losers who play Games.', it actually makes you sound a little ignorant on what a computer can do. In the intrest of full disclosure, I play a lot of games. But I also do a lot of blueprints, design layouts, spreadsheets, maps, web design, contracts, and presentations. Its nice that the Intel Core Duo came out for mac. But thats a recent development. And from what I hear, any software that comes from a 'pre-duo' timeframe has to be run on an emulator, which makes it a lot slower. So switching may involve purchasing all new software, assuming you dont have to just to get the mac version.

*Usability.*
Having been lucky enough to use macs and pcs my entire life, I would have to say this. A windows based system run smoother with a user who is informed about how their system works. A mac system is very linear and doesnt allow for getting in those innards as much. Plain and simply, use a mac if you dont know anything about a computer. You will have a far shorted learning curve. A pc requires a knowledge outside the context of just simple operations and is really for the more advanced user. That being said, I do find that macs tend to be perfect for AV editing. My pops does a lot of editing and I will say that his systems are freaking nice! Also about 5k... But dont let the learning curve of a windows system deter you. It not like you have to learn code. Just understand some basic ideas?
*
Software*
You dont need office to run a buisness. To buy a more expensive platform and hardware just to run you 'better' office software (which is what by the way? Share the wealth!) is a bit silly as a contractor. You should be researching your needs, not just making blind assumption. Personally, I use Outlook for email/appointments/etc and Open Office 2.0 (free software for windows & mac) for all contracts and typewritten material. Its free and unless your a specialty contractor who for some reason needs DB access ala MS Access, it will work fine. I use quickbooks for accounting, but who doesnt? And im pretty sure thats availible on most systems. Another consideration is that since market penetration for mac isnt as high as the windows based systems, a lot of software come 2nd for mac. Not in all cases, and to try and pinpoint a segment where that happens is impossible. But it is also a consideration of mine. 

*Viruses*
I currently dont even bothe keeping a AV suite installed on my tablet pc or desktop. Why? well because I actually understand how to prevent viruses and other damaging files off of my computer. Which goes back to being informed about your system. AV programs are merely bloat in most cases, and norton acts like a virus, i swear. I check every 6 months or so, but Its been a while since one has showed up. Also, and dont take my word for it, but viruses do exist for mac's, they are less prevalent because they arent as numerous. But they do exist, and while microsoft takes its time with patches, so does apple from what I understand.

_So in the end,_
Your conclusions are wrong. As a contractor, I cant imagine telling a fellow contractor to waste money on a mac when its clearly not the tool for the job. If your running a spiffy high end design studio, there might be a mac around. But there will be a linux rendering server not to far away to actually produce the renderings. Price point for a decent office pc is a lot better than that of mac. If you want to invest in a mac, you can still run windows via the mac program boot camp. But you will be paying extra for that. The question is, what is the use of the computer? A toy or a tool. 

I would be more than happy if someone here could tell me im wrong in more terms than just '_What a Joke! I think some people should not talk about the differences between a PC/MAC!_' This is rather unhelpfull IMO to anyone that comes by this thread because it doesnt provide any actuall reasons...Oh and I dont hate macs or anything, it just ruffles my feathers so to speak when I hear these blind comparisons when really, they are apples and oranges (no pun intended).


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## TridentOps (Feb 16, 2007)

*Seriously*



gcajnr21 said:


> Your funny, actually Windows kinda Blows Ive built plenty of PCs myself but just got tired of crashes, hunting down New Drivers to make it run better, viruses and buying new virus software every freaking year, Thats Gay. But i do admit that buildings PC's is fun and exciting. keep your PC.
> Just trying to help, Guy.
> 
> I dont want apple to make lots of software. See Apple believes in making a few perfect software Apps, thats It! With Windows you get 1 million software Apps and none of them work right or they are missing something. Windows is just out to make a Dollar, Mac is out to make something that is Perfect and run Right!.
> ...


I compare side by side all the time and I have yet to come across one mac book user that can flip his screen around and scribble notes down. And dont get me started on render times...I would still be waiting for some of my renders to finish, even on a core duo. 

Please, give up now:whistlingEnjoy your mac and leave us advanced users alone. :thumbsup:


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

I love having someone else around who knows what he is talking about. :thumbsup: Welcome to the site from another advanced computer user (mostly windows... and some linux) who understands the differance and also has not run anitvirus software because it in itself is a virus.


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## SgtBaldy (Jul 14, 2006)

Vista is 64 bit but right now there are few 64 bit programs out there. If you get it now you will be future proofing your pute. I have heard media center is very nice as well.

That being said, I am waiting till at least first service pack comes out.


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## RobertCDF (Aug 18, 2005)

SgtBaldy said:


> Vista is 64 bit but right now there are few 64 bit programs out there. If you get it now you will be future proofing your pute. I have heard media center is very nice as well.
> 
> That being said, I am waiting till at least first service pack comes out.


You can get XP in a 64 bit version. My dad has the 64 bit XP because one of his computers has 4GB ram.


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## SgtBaldy (Jul 14, 2006)

But if you are going to go buy a new operating system with 64 bit then you might as well buy the newest one because support will last longer and all new programs will be built with vista in mind. If you already have 64 bit xp then you might as well use it as long as you can. 

Vista was supposed to have a brand new file sytem but I heard they scrapped it.


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## AAPaint (Apr 18, 2005)

Microsoft is trying to spit out operating systems faster and faster and force upgrades. I have winXP 64 on two of my machines. Damn if I'm upgrading any time soon.


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