# Upper back pain



## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

hdavis said:


> And it should. In spite of popularity, yoga tends to both over stress and over stretch, especially knees and back.
> 
> 
> I don't need excessive flexibility, I just need basic ROM, and muscles tight enough and strong enough to keep everything stabilized. Basically, just what a football player needs.


Lots of football players do yoga. They feel it's better than weights as weight are limiting. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3816419

but if you want to see the benefits, this Youtube is unbelievable.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Reg said:


> Lots of football players do yoga. They feel it's better than weights as weight are limiting. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3816419


That isn't really what that story is about - here's a quote"

'
"When you're [weight] lifting," Toomer said, "your muscles don't want to go through the full range of motion, and I think that the first thing to go [in a football career] is range of motion. And I'm trying to keep my range of motion."

So he began incorporating yoga into his training. But in 2004, when weight training handed him a pulled hamstring, Toomer put down the bumper plates for good.
' 

I won't get too far into the details of weight training for sports performance, other than to say I was a sprinter many years ago, and weight training was a part of the conditioning. Having the advantage of being old, I can tell you that as you age, doing some of the weight routines where you're getting close to max single rep you are much more likely to strain a muscle, and those muscles take lot longer to heal. Football players already get a huge amount of conditioning even without weights. It's a struggle to have the correct flexibility / ROM even if you aren't in a weight program. It isn't a bad trade-off. Lose some strength / explosive power, but decrease likelihood of a training injury and decrease the difficulty of retaining flexibility / ROM. 

And yes, if they do the wrong yoga exercises, they'll be much more likely to have knee injuries - tightening up a knee after it has become too loose takes months. These guys are pros and they have access to the best trainers for their sport - I don't think they'll make that mistake.

IMO, yoga can be good or bad, physically. I checked it out 30 years ago - I had a buddy who was an instructor. The bottom line in my book is a number of the poses are just plain bad ideas. Backs and knees are way too vulnerable to expose them to possible over stretching / over stressing, and there are exercises that will give the flexibility without over stressing.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

You know you're going to laugh at yourself in 20 years for calling yourself old now. Did you watch the youtube? It's pretty cool except for the sappy music. 

Yeah, anything can hurt you if you're not doing it right. The trick is finding someone who is a good instructor/ trainer. So no more sprinting for you?


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Reg said:


> You know you're going to laugh at yourself in 20 years for calling yourself old now. Did you watch the youtube? It's pretty cool except for the sappy music.
> 
> Yeah, anything can hurt you if you're not doing it right. The trick is finding someone who is a good instructor/ trainer. So no more sprinting for you?


No, no, and no One knee football, one knee tennis as an adult, and one of the two misc kid play accident. I could still do standing starts when my kids were young, but coming out of the blocks, I'd be on the ground.

In 20 years, I'll probably be skipping along with titanium knees:thumbsup:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

What is one knee football and tennis? Meaning you favor one leg? Watch that second vid. You wont believe the transformation of this guy. Not trying to convince you of anything, just because it's pretty freaking amazing.....except for the music.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Reg said:


> What is one knee football and tennis? Meaning you favor one leg? Watch that second vid. You wont believe the transformation of this guy. Not trying to convince you of anything, just because it's pretty freaking amazing.....except for the music.


Meaning one knee was blown out playing football, and the other was blown out playing tennis. Once you tear cartilage and ligaments, they don't work exactly the same again. My big mistake was playing on the floor with the kids when they were little - stretched the ligaments I did have out, and they never recovered. 

I'll go back and watch the video, but I'm no stranger to yoga.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

hdavis said:


> Meaning one knee was blown out playing football, and the other was blown out playing tennis. Once you tear cartilage and ligaments, they don't work exactly the same again. My big mistake was playing on the floor with the kids when they were little - stretched the ligaments I did have out, and they never recovered.
> 
> I'll go back and watch the video, but I'm no stranger to yoga.


You and your kiddos must have really rough housed to pull ligaments! Hope you like the video.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

OK, I watched the video - that looked like spinal cord damage to me - very different. 

I actually know a guy that had a spinal injury in an accident, but the spinal cord wasn't severed. He was told he wouldn't walk again. 3 years later, he could get around some using leg braces and crutches. 5 years later, he has taken a few unaided steps. He plans on doing a lot of water work this summer. It was a long shot that he got this far, be he didn't give up, he just decided he was going to do it no matter how long it takes.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

Reg said:


> ... Watch that second vid. You wont believe the transformation of this guy. ....


Headstands? I question the sense of that.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

hdavis;2012242 Once you tear cartilage and ligaments said:


> I have torn chest muscles .. The pain at the time was bad! BAD!
> 
> I was told the muscle would heal in a twist . leaving scar tissue . It took over a year for me to get right from that torn muscle ..I've pulled my back out over the years 20 times [at least !]


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Reg said:


> You and your kiddos must have really rough housed to pull ligaments! Hope you like the video.


No, even just sitting cross legged can stretch ligaments. I had pretty good knee stability up until then, but I still could leg press 3X my body weight or so. Strong, tight muscles help with knee stability, but it still isn't enough to keep the joint together. Ligaments, tendons, cartilage and a meniscus turn out to be pretty handy.

And yes, I'd still play on the floor with the kids:laughing:


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Yoga would work great for Brad Pitt!


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

blacktop said:


> I have torn chest muscles .. The pain at the time was bad! BAD!
> 
> I was told the muscle would heal in a twist . leaving scar tissue . It took over a year for me to get right from that torn muscle ..I've pulled my back out over the years 20 times [at least !]


Had a buddy that went to compete in non-steriod class weight lifting when he was 40 something. He got talked into doing some max bench presses, and tore his. He was out of lifting for about a year as well, and I don't think he ever really got back into it.

Backs are tough - once you tweak it once, it's so much easier to do it again. I'm assuming it's from ligaments getting stretched, but who knows. Take care of that back - hanging and finishing are a lot easier when it's working:thumbsup:


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Headstands? I question the sense of that.



Yeah, you would:laughing:


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

hdavis said:


> OK, I watched the video - that looked like spinal cord damage to me - very different.
> 
> I actually know a guy that had a spinal injury in an accident, but the spinal cord wasn't severed. He was told he wouldn't walk again. 3 years later, he could get around some using leg braces and crutches. 5 years later, he has taken a few unaided steps. He plans on doing a lot of water work this summer. It was a long shot that he got this far, be he didn't give up, he just decided he was going to do it no matter how long it takes.


BUT IT WAS COOL, DON'T YOU THINK? :laughing:

Man, your friend sounds determined. Took eight years to do a few unaided steps. That's slow progress but progress none the less. I wish him well.


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

blacktop said:


> I have torn chest muscles .. The pain at the time was bad! BAD!
> 
> I was told the muscle would heal in a twist . leaving scar tissue . It took over a year for me to get right from that torn muscle ..I've pulled my back out over the years 20 times [at least !]


How does one tear chest muscles?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Reg said:


> How does one tear chest muscles?


I tore a muscle off my ribs. 4 WEEKS on my back yelling at the ceiling!

Spasm from my chest to my toes every time I took a deep breath. 


How? Stupidity!


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## Reg (Dec 15, 2013)

blacktop said:


> I tore a muscle off my ribs. 4 WEEKS on my back yelling at the ceiling!
> 
> Spasm from my chest to my toes every time I took a deep breath.
> 
> ...


Sounds worse than breaking ribs. Hell, the things we do to ourselves. Feel free to elaborate if you want.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Reg said:


> Sounds worse than breaking ribs.


Ribs are easier to deal with. If bone pulled off when he tore(it can), that a really really bad one.


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