# What's acceptable tile lippage?



## JazMan (Feb 16, 2007)

1/4" lippage of course is really bad, even 1/8" is too much and does not meet min standards for typical tile installations under ANSI A137.1 which governs tile quality and installed allowable lippage. 

As far as I can tell the specs say 1/16" lippage is reasonable when the joints are "1/4" or greater." 1/32" when the joint width is "1/16 to less than 1/4"." These are for pressed manufactured floor and porcelain tiles. The specs for natural stone is less, 1/32 *IF* the stone have a smooth finish. 

The spec continues and says;


A108.02 said:


> Additionally, variations in the plane of the substrate will also affect lippage. In many cases, when tile is installed by the thinset method over an uneven substrate, the installed surface will not meet lippage standards.


That is what went wrong. The contractor quoted the job not knowing how flat the substrate was going to be once the demo was completed. Once they realized (or did they?) the floor was not flat enough for large natural stone tiles, they should have told the client and quoted the cost to make the floor flat. This of course creates many problems and delays, so they continued thinking they could make it right. Obviously that wasn't possible this time.

The substrate needs to be flat within _1/8" in 10' and 1/16" in 24" of the required plane. _ 

Jaz


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I agree the slabs/substrate are rarely ever flat enough for large tile and the equipment /material is not on standby.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Right, but they tore out 3 layers and put 3 more layers back down. Plenty of opportunity to level/flatten the floor. I haven't put an 8 footer on it, but it's not out by much, if any. They knew what kind of tile was going down before they started. It was picked out long before the job was started. I installed 1500+ sf of 3 1/4" RO H/W in the rest of the bottom floor (Did I mention not a _single_ gap or squeak 3 1/2 years later? On 1/2" subfloor? Yeah, I'm proud :laughing and it's pretty damn level/flat. This house is framed good, except for the 1/2" subfloor . Decks are 2x12's 12" oc. Solid. That's why I'm so pissed.


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## MIKE ANTONETTI (Jul 17, 2012)

I know, I hate being in that position. It's really gotta be the homeowner being as pissed as you, sad thing is most of the money/leverage is gone.


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

Well, I think (hope) I've got this worked out. HO didn't really notice/care about the lippage except for the big one - _ 1/4" Right in FRONT of the sink_ . 

Since tile boy doesn't have any insurance, and I'm now in charge of this cluster, I've worked out a deal with him. He comes back, replaces the tiles I specify, and I fix the HW floor. If the HO is satisfied, he doesn't get sued or thrown in jail for fraud. My attorney wrote him a nice little letter and I hand delivered it to him this morning. IF he does a good job, doesn't complain, threaten me, and cleans up the jobsite good, he MIGHT get some of his final payment (The HO actually held out $2K, not 1. It was to be his final payment). I've got a couple of bundles of wood in the house acclimating now and will probably do the fix next week.

I went to look at the job he was recommended from (friends of HO) and it looks good. Guess he just got lazy on this one, I dunno.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

I don't see why you shouldn't get the couple of hundred he said it would take to fix the floor... :whistling

But smoothing over this with a long term client will bode well for you...


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## 66 Shelby (Jan 11, 2009)

KAP said:


> But smoothing over this with a long term client will bode well for you...


No doubt about that. The client put me in charge of fixing it and is willing to pay me for it. I won't accept any monies above what I feel is acceptable for my time and aggravation. I know that's a subjective number, but we've been good for each other over the years (That sounds sappy and weird, doesn't it? :laughing. If tile-boy holds up his end of the deal this episode will turn out OK.

And...They have a couple of other projects on their 'Wish List' that will be good, profit-wise :thumbsup:.


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