# Unusual floor tiling job



## sreja (Oct 1, 2019)

I have an unusual tiling job technical challenge that I've not encountered before.

The job is a small bathroom tile (over existing tile), but with a requirement for access to a trap under the floor tile.

Details:

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It's tiling over some existing old penny tile in a small bathroom.

Tiling over the existing tile does not concern me: The existing tile is ugly but VERY solidly adhered on a thickset mortar bed set on concrete, and should be a fine substrate for the long term.

The challenge is that there is an old drum trap in the center of the bathroom floor. For those not familiar, this was an old trap technology where the tub drain runs under the bathroom floor and then into a cylindrical trap, with a 4 inch brass cleanout plug exposed in the bathroom floor. It looks something like this illustration (except that the plug is recessed an inch BELOW the floor level in a dip in the floor):










There is no chance of changing out the drum trap, it's buried in the thickset mortar and then in concrete -- it would be a massive job to remove it.

The cleanout plug of the drum trap sits about an inch BELOW the floor level.

So what we'd LIKE to do is tile the floor as normal, but have the single tile that sits OVER this drum trap, be removable if needed, without too much damage. The goal is to make the floor look completely normally tiled when finished, without any sign of the drum trap.

Does anyone have any good ideas for how to do this?

It doesn't have to be a completely painless process to get up the tile over the drum trap, but it has to be at least feasible to do without damaging multiple surrounding tiles.

The best idea I can come up with is to tile the floor as normal, except skip the single tile area that would be over the drum trap. Then try to put that one tile in place using a very weak adhesive (spot butter it) or maybe spray some oil on the substrate, etc. The idea being to only barely adhere that tile to the area surrounding the drum trap cleanout. 

And then grout as normal.. So that if the drum trap did ever have to be accesses, it could be done by grinding out the grout and then popping that one tile off without damaging surrounding tile, substrate, or drum trap brass plug itself.

Weird situation I know.. any other ideas how it could be done in a more elegant fashion -- balancing final look with potential need to access trap in future?

sr from chicago


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## Rio (Oct 13, 2009)

Since it's designed to have the lid removable for cleaning it would make sense to design the tile and floor that way also. I wouldn't try and tile over it as then when it came time to access the clean out it would be difficult to do so without defacing the floor, would instead design it so when it's finished it can be removed, perhaps with the tile, perhaps with a nice clean lid?


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## sreja (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah, in an ideal world I'd love to design it so the tile over the drum trap could just be lifted off to access the cleanout and then set back down.

The problem is that this cleanout plug is a huge eye sore -- it's a large indentation in the center of the floor of a small (8'x8') bathroom.. The homeowner does not want to have to keep walking around it, and really wants it tiled over.. But the chance that it will need to be accessed one day is motivating the search for some kind of compromise solution that would make it not a nightmare to have to access.


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## sreja (Oct 1, 2019)

The tile is going to be 12x24.. One possibility I thought of was to try to find a matching caulk and grout, and then basically tiling and grouting the floor normally, but CAULKING (around and under) this one tile over the drum trap.

The caulk and grout are never going to match perfectly of course, so it would be visible on inspection, but maybe that would allow me to have that one tile "isolated" from its neighbors so that it could be more easily taken out.

It might also solve my other concern, which is that if i don't adhere that one tile securely to the substrate around the drum trap, it might have some movement and end up cracking the neighboring tiles.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Get a plumber open up the ceiling below, remove the drum and install a regular trap. 
The amount of you messing around this and the time you spend on this and most likely it will not look so good after it's done.vs some minor plumbing work and a little patch on the ceiling below which you not gonna see and end up with a beautiful bathroom.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

It will be too much drama to access if/when necessary.

If you must leave it intact, then cut a hole in the 12x24's for it. You could make a decorative cap out of natural stone or something....or a matching cap from your tile, and caulk it in place. Or put a freestanding toilet paper holder (or something else) _right there_.

Or snap one of your 12x24's so there's a short cut located over the access, and drop it in place.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

greg24k said:


> Get a plumber open up the ceiling below, remove the drum and install a regular trap.
> The amount of you messing around this and the time you spend on this and most likely it will not look so good after it's done.vs some minor plumbing work and a little patch on the ceiling below which you not gonna see and end up with a beautiful bathroom.





sreja said:


> There is no chance of changing out the drum trap, it's buried in the thickset mortar and then in concrete -- it would be a massive job to remove it.
> 
> 
> sr from chicago


Sounds like a ground floor bathroom Greg.


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## WarriorWithWood (Jun 30, 2007)

If it has a thick brass cap can you drill and tap a hole for 1/4" machine screw in the center and use a second slightly larger clean out cover over the new tile?


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Biggest issues will be supporting the tile so it does not crack, water getting below the tile.

Match the grout to an available Dilex color;

https://www.schluter.com/schluter-u...sion-Joints/Schluter®-DILEX-AKWS/p/DILEX_AKWS

Magnets or Velcro to hold the tile in place?

Tom


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Btw, has anyone ever had to clean out a drum trap from normal use? 

My folks have them, and they've basically never been accessed, even in high use bathrooms raising several kids. (Actually, once by me to check them, but found nothing of note.) The tub/shower has a strainer, plus lever-operated (from overflow) tub drain. mid-60's vintage stuff


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## sreja (Oct 1, 2019)

Yeah that's part of the calculus of tiling this over -- the drum trap has, to homeowners knowledge, never needed to be accessed...


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## rblakes1 (Jan 8, 2015)

If you're covering the existing floor anyway, saw cut the slab and have a plumber eliminate the box trap and put in a regular trap, then fill the hole with concrete and continue as normal.

If they don't like it and don't want to see it, don't waste your time on "this might work if all these things align"

-Rich


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## tang (Jan 5, 2009)

I would, take the tile out! take the tub out! take the floor out, and take OUT that jacked up plumbing!... IMO, and that of any inspector, it needs a properly vented waste. Patch in the floor. Banded Detra, and new tile, new tub, new, new, new, Or I might call tipi! because W.W.T.D? What Would Tipi Do?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

tang said:


> I would, take the tile out! take the tub out! take the floor out, and take OUT that jacked up plumbing!... IMO, and that of any inspector, it needs a properly vented waste. Patch in the floor. Banded Detra, and new tile, new tub, new, new, new, *Or I might call tipi! because W.W.T.D? What Would Tipi Do?*


^^^--- Right There . Words To Live By..


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## tang (Jan 5, 2009)

I've told more than one customer that, "I might not be a good fit for this job...I just don't do that kind of stuff... but I know a guy!...call 444-tipi":thumbup:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

1, your proposed solution might very well be a code violation.

When the code states a C/O must be "readily accessible", that usually precludes placing finish materials over it.

2, if you succeeded in "lightly" placing a tile over the opening, the first or second time it got stepped on, it wouldn't be nice and snug and pretty anymore. 

Removing a drum trap that is bedded in mortar shouldn't really be that big a deal. 

And how will you mark the tile, so that the owners and future owners know which one is the magic one?


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## Morning Wood (Jan 12, 2008)

I’ve also heard those called pot traps. If it’s not getting removed than I’d tile in a trim ring and drop in a small tile piece. I wouldn’t make something as large as 12x24 removable. Almost like a drain. It has a trim piece and then the drain cover drops in and gets screwed down. But the tile could just sit there


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Can't you find a brass trim ring and cap of some sort. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

Tillable drain over the barrel trap?

https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/press-release-kerdi-drain-tileable-covering-support

Tom


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

tgeb said:


> Sounds like a ground floor bathroom Greg.


It's not a big deal to cut the slab, it takes a few minutes, it's done all the time in the basements... not to mention it probably has a 2" (if that) a rat slab, is why they put such a thick bed of mortar under the tile (we run into this s^*t all the time in older homes). 
Like RBlake said it will be tiled over anyway.


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## sreja (Oct 1, 2019)

This is on the upper floor of a condo unit, with 10 inch concrete floors between floors. The building was built in the 20s. I've seen one of the bathrooms units gutted to replace the plumbing in the floor and it was a nightmare.


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