# Pole Barn Framed Garage?



## J-Peffer (Mar 3, 2007)

I bought a house a year back as a project to work on. It was a real lemon, but Michigan winters and roofing don't mix. So it's been good for winter projects, but I have to get the exterior work done on weekends in the summer.

I'd like to put up a garage in the back, but it would be on a budget. To pour footings, a knee wall and slab, it will cost me almost as much as the rest of the garage.

I was thinking, to avoid 42", 2'x8" footings around the entire building, could I build the wall pole barn style? With footings just under the supports.

It would probably come down to the inspector, but I was thinking if I did this, the structure would still be solid, but it would save a healthy amount of the budget to be put into things I might get a better return on investment with.

Thanks for any insight


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

Are you still going to put a slab in it?

Is this garage going to be insulated?

Are the walls going to be finished inside?


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## naptown CR (Feb 20, 2009)

pole barns are a perfectly acceptable building type. Why would a bullding inspector have a problem with it. yu can even lave out the floor for now to cut back on the budget even more.

check this out

http://www.contractortalk.com/f3/pole-barn-garage-54869/?highlight=pole+barn


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## J-Peffer (Mar 3, 2007)

I would like to slab it after it's done, 4". I can nail pressure treated lumber around the lower base and pour the slab. 

I would build everything like a normal garage, frame the walls the same, but I would just have 4x6 preassure treated post holding the load and appropriate sized lumber between.


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

there is some good info here http://postframeadvantage.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3661 , 

I do not think you would have a problem, Pole barns are very common in Michigan


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

You will still be effected by frost.

How do you plan to address a heaving slab, or soil that moves up and impacts the framing?


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## Pearce Services (Nov 21, 2005)

tgeb said:


> You will still be effected by frost.
> 
> How do you plan to address a heaving slab, or soil that moves up and impacts the framing?


the footing is in the ground below the frost line, the post is smooth enough to not be lifted by the frost heaves

I have been in pole barns that have a slab, I do not know if it is insulation below the slab, or just that there is room for movement so the slab can move. The site I referenced, should address this situation


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## Kgmz (Feb 9, 2007)

Agree with tgeb.

You will find out in the end you are really not saving much money with what you have said about the walls and slab.

First to save on the footings and foundation wall, you will need large treated posts buried deep. On these posts you will need stronger trusses to support the larger span between posts and trusses. Then you have all the purlins to lay on top of the trusses. Same thing with the walls and how you do it if it is going to be insulated. Then you have to figure if the garage door is on the gable end or side, and how your are going to frame that in, and if you need shear panels on the sides of it depending on how mush room is left 4 ft or more or less than 4 feet.

I have friends in Michigan and it seems most people insulate their garages, shops, etc. because of the winter weather. So if you are insulating how are you going to insulate the ceiling/roof. The walls will be easy if framed kind of like a normal garage but horizontally instead of vertically with the studs in between the posts. But the ceiling or roof will be hard and expensive if you want a decent amount of insulation there. Do you insulate the roof or put in ceiling joists so you can blow in some insulation on top of ceiling, this is the tough question.

So if it is not going to be insulated or finished inside, then it may be a little cheaper. But if it going to be insulated then it will be more expensive than a normal framed garage on a foundation.

What you need to do is price everything for each type of garage and compare. You will find the pole trusses are going to be about the same price as normal trusses, but a lot less of them plus you have to add the price of the purlins. The wall framing in a pole building will not use any less lumber. And then find out how deep the posts have to be and what is needed for a footing under them. And a normal garage is quick and easy to put up, frame the walls and stand them up, put on the trusses, and then you already have a ceiling that can be rocked and insulation blown in on top.

I could have a normal framed 2 car garage up and sheathed with one other person in one day. With a post framed you will be messing with it for a couple more days putting in all those purlins, etc. What is your time worth.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

you can take a pole barn garage, run up insulation and sheetrock, then hang sheetrock on the ceiling to boot. Nothing special here, except maybe the cold cycles will break your tape joints. If you've got heaving problems w/ the slab, be sure to isolate the slab from the post (place an expansion joint around the post).


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## Dutch1962 (May 10, 2009)

I think it's a good idea. I don't have to deal with heaving frost in my neck of the woods but we do deal with bugs. Make sure you at leat treat the wood to ground contact (poles). May save you in the long run. A simple borate spray will suffice and keep the carpenter ants at bay for years as well as any termites that 'may' be around.

Do it yourself $ bout $6.00


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## barnbuilder1 (Dec 6, 2008)

This is the slickest bldg. I have seen. 50 yr. CCA 2X6. take (3) 8 footers and sandwich together with thru bolts. Stick 4 ft. in the ground surrounded by plastic sleeve on top of concrete pill. Leave the middle piece 16" short at the top, so that you can splice in 2X6 of say D. fir. Put posts on 8 ft. centers around perimeter. At top of post this will leave a gap for a truss to set in. Put 2X6 between rafter chord using joist hangers. put in 2X6 skirt board, pour concrete whenever you want, why not use a floating wood floor easier to walk on. Use a lot of sand under your slab and it should float alright.


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## J-Peffer (Mar 3, 2007)

Kgmz said:


> Agree with tgeb.
> 
> You will find out in the end you are really not saving much money with what you have said about the walls and slab.
> 
> ...



I don't see how some 16' 4x6 PT poles can cost nearly as much as 14 yards of concrete.

The poles 8' on center, frame normal walls, between the poles, with PT lumber as a bottom plate, just like you would if it were concrete, but use a 4x6 with hangers for a bottom plate.

I'm working out the numbers now, pricing it prior to jumping the gun.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

J-Peffer said:


> I don't see how some 16' 4x6 PT poles can cost nearly as much as 14 yards of concrete.
> 
> The poles 8' on center, frame normal walls, between the poles, with PT lumber as a bottom plate, just like you would if it were concrete, but use a 4x6 with hangers for a bottom plate.
> 
> I'm working out the numbers now, pricing it prior to jumping the gun.


You are correct here-also the price of the roof & wall sheathing has to be considered. I am the guy on the other "pole" barn garage post. My material cost for my 22 1/2' x 32' is $3900 complete with the metal for the walls & roof. This was without the price of the trusses, which I bought last year that someone could not use. A stick built would not come close to this price . My permit stipulates a 12" footer at the bottom of my holes which I drilled 12"
I don't think I will ever insulate it as it is an extra storage building, but there are many ways to do it if I would decide to.

I am putting a 2 x 12" treated around the bottom perimiter in case I want to pour a slab. Good tip on those joints around the posts in this thread. I actually am considering a wood floor too as I may store my classic cars in it.............


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