# Better Business Bureau



## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> BTW, I picked up a pure white frangipani today.


I'm sorry to hear that
Have you had all your shots?


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## hauoli63 (Aug 15, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> BTW, I picked up a pure white frangipani today.


When it blooms, send me a picture .... and a smell-o-gram!


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

They have a nice program around here (called the 'Consumer Bureau'), - - in Princeton, NJ, - - a list of the town's 'recommended' contractors, - - within a 25 mile radius, - - the only cost is a 'good reputation', - - then for only $8/week (administrative costs only), - - you can advertise in their newspaper's 'service directory', - - with the agreement that any 'disputes' will be arbitrarily judged and 'binding'.

I was part of it a few years ago, - - but dropped the 'advertising' because I was too busy to ever even 'look' at any of the jobs, - - anyway, - - I'm still considered a 'member' and can get back in the paper with a phone call.

Unlike the BBB, - - the program's not about making money, - - it's about providing a valuable service for the community and contractor's alike. :Thumbs:


P.S. They don't allow 'anybody and everybody', - - there's a limit to how many ads. Like I say, - - it's not about money.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

Tom R said:


> Unlike the BBB, - - the program's not about making money, - - it's about providing a valuable service for the community and contractor's alike. :Thumbs:


That's an abomination in everything that we hold holy in this world. I can only hope when the democrats get back into power they will find a way to eliminate something like that before it catches on and destroys us all.

Truly I wish we had something like that out here, that sounds like a great service/organization.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Dohhh!!, - - please don't get me started on Democrats and 'Liberals', - - the most 'generous' people on earth, - - always wanting to give away more of 'my' hard-earned money to those who refuse to work for it.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Tom R said:


> Dohhh!!, - - please don't get me started on Democrats and 'Liberals', - - the most 'generous' people on earth, - - always wanting to give away more of 'my' hard-earned money to those who refuse to work for it.


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## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

ProWallGuy said:


>


I'm tryin', - - just seems like there's only EIGHT days in a week anymore!! :cheesygri


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## Humble Abode (Mar 19, 2005)

Glasshousebltr said:


> I say it's time for BCB, Better Consumer Bureau, let's weed out some of those thieving fools.
> 
> Bob


I had that idea a while back. I think its a good one. Don't know how legal it is. What I was thinking was to make it a website for contractors. Structured exactly like the BBB is structured. The contractors would pay a small fee just to maintain the site ($1 a month maybe a little more). 

But what it would amount to is a customer blacklist, broken down by region. Contractor X would list his greiveance, non-payment, late payment etc. and the customer would then have a chance to dispute it or rectify the problem.

I was actually thinking of pitching it to Nate... Maybe tying it to contractortalk.com.


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## ProWallGuy (Oct 17, 2003)

Humble Abode said:


> I had that idea a while back. I think its a good one. Don't know how legal it is. What I was thinking was to make it a website for contractors. Structured exactly like the BBB is structured. The contractors would pay a small fee just to maintain the site ($1 a month maybe a little more).
> 
> But what it would amount to is a customer blacklist, broken down by region. Contractor X would list his greiveance, non-payment, late payment etc. and the customer would then have a chance to dispute it or rectify the problem.
> 
> I was actually thinking of pitching it to Nate... Maybe tying it to contractortalk.com.


Somebody beat you to it. Can't recall the name of the site off the top of my head, but I've been there before, and it costs a couple bucks a month to be a member. I'll look around, see if I can find it again.


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## Humble Abode (Mar 19, 2005)

ProWallGuy said:


> Somebody beat you to it. Can't recall the name of the site off the top of my head, but I've been there before, and it costs a couple bucks a month to be a member. I'll look around, see if I can find it again.



I figured someone had. I would be interested in the link for sure. I could definantly add at least one person so far...


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I tried it years ago. Apparently the rules are different for 'citizens' and we are a different class.
'They' are free to list 'us' but don't dare put the shoe on the other foot. I recieved over 1,000 'opinions', many from powerful sources. As a group, we could fight them. For one guy, it is suicide.


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Save your money. The local office here in Trenton doesn't even give out true advice. When HD cancelled all the installer contracts in this area a couple years ago they held $8000 that they owed me "Because we are allowed to". So I went and sent Notice of Intent to File Lien letters to every job that I wasn't paid for. WOW, did the s*** hit the fan at all the stores I worked at! The customers were calling and demanding refunds and the district manager called me screaming "You can't do that!" I told him, "I did it because according to NJ law "I am allowed to" and hung up on him. Need less to say, I got a check from them REAL quick. Anyway, one customer 2months later complained to the BBB that I did this to them. They also happened to be two women with crewcuts that did nothing but talk about how men :evil: are responsible for everything wrong in the world the whole time I was at their house working. The BBB guy calls me and starts arguing with me saying it was illegal to send the Notice of Intent because I was a subcontractor. I told the genious that was one of the purposes of the lien law so subs don't get shafted by GC's. My wife works for a good size law firm in the area so I made sure I was OK legally before I did it. He wanted me to send the women a letter of apology!!! to which I told him "Yeah, right. You people are worthless". Click!!


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

Tim, HOORAH! Fighting Americans, gotta love'em.


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## wacker (Apr 18, 2008)

*Blacklist Consumer Bureau*

:clap:This is the exact idea I was looking for when I joined this website today.

I'm soooo tired of lowlife consumer's not paying. And having to pay an attorney to get them to pay.

Last year we upped our contracts to 75% upfront. Am now thinking we should take 100% upfront like the big box companies.

I love the your idea and seriously want to do something about it but talk.

Any suggestions?



Humble Abode said:


> I had that idea a while back. I think its a good one. Don't know how legal it is. What I was thinking was to make it a website for contractors. Structured exactly like the BBB is structured. The contractors would pay a small fee just to maintain the site ($1 a month maybe a little more).
> 
> But what it would amount to is a customer blacklist, broken down by region. Contractor X would list his greiveance, non-payment, late payment etc. and the customer would then have a chance to dispute it or rectify the problem.
> 
> I was actually thinking of pitching it to Nate... Maybe tying it to contractortalk.com.


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## HomeGuard (Dec 13, 2007)

Although the structure of the BBB is a scam(the very fact that you can only be a memeber by paying proves that). In my area they provided my 15 different logo files to use on my advertisements. So it seems strange that they would revoke someone elses membership for using one, it only serves to enhance thier brand. Unless the business that is using it is shady.


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## J F (Dec 3, 2005)

We just joined BBB about 18 months ago. It's just another part of our advertising...period. 

Just like being members of the Chamber of Commerce, we don't expect much from it, but it definitely won't hurt you and has the possibility to help you, depending on how you approach it. 

Just another piece of the advertising/PR puzzle. Small dollars in relation to the overall picture.

J


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## Any Season (Nov 19, 2007)

I too went back and forth on joining the BBB, and decided not to and here is why. The only reasons people go there are to see if a business is legit or to complain. I am listed on there without any complaints ever anyways whether I am a member or not so I see no need to pay for that. Second, I am very proactive in fixing any disagreements or unhappiness with my work which is not common but does happen. If ever something was to go to the stage of getting the BBB involved I would imagine it would be because the other person is unreasonable, so why would I want some organization telling me how to handle problem customers and leveraging my membership and the money I spent on it against me? The marketing part of it is a joke too bc it is an ancillary reference source at best and nobody cares if you are a member as long as you don't have any complaints against you. I explain this to anyone who asks...."Look me up, I am on there as a non-member with no complaints ever"


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## Halo (Oct 3, 2007)

The BBB is a complete fraud. My integrity will not allow me to participate in or support such an operation. I basically say as much if anyone inquires.

As a whole I think more businesse should think about taking this stand. Many do know of the BBB's true nature and it may reflect onto you.

Like many have previously commented on there are many reputable organizations to support and align yourself with. A few minutes educating the consumer should go along ways.


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## Alta (Apr 3, 2008)

To bad what has happened to the bbb.


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## Alta (Apr 3, 2008)

What about Angies List?


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## HomeGuard (Dec 13, 2007)

Angies list is even worse, they will not let you respond to complaints, if a customer posts a negative comment about you, there is nothing you can do to resolve it.


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## Bleed (Apr 16, 2008)

HomeGuardPaints said:


> Angies list is even worse, they will not let you respond to complaints, if a customer posts a negative comment about you, there is nothing you can do to resolve it.


As far as I know, you can resolve it by calling a customer and try to fix the problem, then the costumer has to call Angie`s List and tell them to remove the negative feedback they`ve put up earlier. It worked for me 2 years ago.
:clap:


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## GSE (Aug 24, 2007)

These self appointed do good sites can be stopped in a heart beat, don't just say your going to file a complaint, do it and hire the best law firm you can find and clean their clock. They present themself as a powerful site, take them down a noch, they feel it's the intrernet and they can say anything, and accuse anyone with no recourse, file that complaint, and see how fast they buckle under.


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

Funny this topic should pop up. Last week I got a letter in the mail from the BBB. A customer filed a complaint on my company requesting a payment of $1,000. I was shocked. This customer made no effort to contact me to resolve any problems. I explained to the BBB mediator, that if I were aware of the problem, I would have fixed it, and notified him that I was not going to pay, because of this reason. He called me back, and informed me that the customer is going to take me to small claims court on this matter, and it was going to be a mark against my company, as an unresolved complaint in the future...

I'm waiting for the notice in the mail, I can't wait to go to court, and explain the situation... The real funny thing is, she tipped my lead carpenter $150, and complained of poor workmanship lol. It just doesen't add up.

This job was completed in August of 07, and paid in full....


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

LawnDart,

All you have to do is respond In Writing, to the BBB and put forth your postion on the matter. It will not leave a black mark for others to see in the future.

That does suppose that you provided a good job and follow up, which seems to be indicated by the tip to the contractor.

But, just because they liked the worker does not mean that they like the boss or the company.

Respond with pertinent and non-superfluous details. Keep to the facts that you are aware of.

Point out that this notice is the first you have been notified and took you by complete surprise as to your initial response.

Even if the consumer does not agree that you have done what would be considered professional and businesslike, the case will bew filed as Administratively Closed.

That is much better than haveing a bad customer satisfaction record showing that you did not attempt to alleviate the situation.

Ed


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## rock_hardplace (Apr 22, 2008)

There was a company in Chicago a little over 2 years ago that began advertising "life time" parts and labor warranties on all their HVAC installs.

6 months later, They offically closed their doors as the company XXXX with owner XXX XXXX. But reentered market as business XXXX with owner XXX B. XXXX. Quickly posted that since they were new management would not honor the "life time" warranty as it was done by a differing business entity they took over. (The Xs represent actual characters that are not differing between two entities.)

No imagination here. Same company, same owner...new BBB file, all complaints erased. (This information verified by independent resources.)

This made the headlines, so how much marketing power does the BBB offer, especially in the Chicagoland area?

All databases are prone to error, best not to ignore but not necessarily actively participate in either.


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## nlgutters (Dec 18, 2007)

We all know its stupid but customers dont. They feel comfortable with the logo. My advertsing design guy puts it first on the top left hand side. He says people really feel good with the logo. The membership is 300 a year not a big deal i get one or two calls a year from there website.


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## eagleandbaby (Oct 13, 2007)

Each year, for the last three, I get a call and a guy who says, "Hey...this is Steve." 

I pause trying to figure out who it is, customer, vendor, old friend, etc., then I ask him who he is. He says, "Yeah, Steve froms the BBB." Then there is a short puase after I say hi and he says, "Just calling about your renewal." He says the same thing about recent inquires. He sounds like a used car salesman. 

I only talk to this guy once a year and he calls and just says, ""Hey...this is Steve." I can’t believe it. 

I am up for renewal now. I am glad someone started this thread because I have wondered about the pro's of belonging the BBB. I do not think I will renew.


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## tnt specialty (Apr 19, 2007)

I used to be a faithfull member of the BBB's, chambers, trade associations, (HBA's, etc....). No more...None of them!

Nothing's changed other than saving a few grand a year.


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

I am both, interested and concerned to find out if LawnDart has taken the steps necessary to clear his companies name with his responce to the BBB.

Ed


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

Ed the Roofer said:


> I am both, interested and concerned to find out if LawnDart has taken the steps necessary to clear his companies name with his responce to the BBB.
> 
> Ed


Ed,

Thanks for your concern. I spoke with the mediator, about my situation. He informed me that this customer was going to make a claim against me in court, and because I responded, to the complaint, the case will be marked as Administratively Closed. We'll see if she actually tries to sue me. I'm preparing for it just in case I get a notice to show.


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