# Okay guys tell me what you think will happen



## Paragon (Jul 22, 2007)

Good morning,

SO I am learning all about people and this stuff they call business, LOL!

Here is my situation tell me what you think about it.

I had a client I did some work for renovating her upstairs and down into her basement. The circumstances surrounding the reason I ended up there is as such. She stuck four plates of spaghetti down the drain and then wanted the plug cleared. She also put draino in the pipes the night before and the shotty pvc in the wall that was all jointed up detriorated overnight and voila she had about 5 leaks in her basement wall and a natural spring coming out of her basement wall.

So she doesn't have a pot to pi$$ in or a window to throw it out of so she turns the claim into the insurance company. The insurance company is only going to pay for a small portion of the project but she strong arms the insurance company and walks away with a check for all new cabinets a 1/4 of the labor to install the cabinets new laminate floor a good portion of the labor to repair it. 

She hired a guy who she said was a retired electrician to string her can lights and string the wiring for her recessed lights. I installed her undercabinet lighting onto the connections the electrician left and I replaced switches and outlets but did no "wiring". I also put a new compression shut off valve on the hot water stub and one on the cold water stub. 

Then she decides that she would fix all the holes in her walls texture repair that her kids puched all sorts of other miscellaneous things and she lets the job get all most finished up and I get a sixth sense that maybe I should put out my feelers and I give her an invoice for a progress payment.

She throws a fit and says she isn't going to pay it (yes I do have a signed contract). So then I tell her that if she doesn't pay it I have no choice but to go to the next step. She calls me Monday after I talked to her and says she is going to the bank to get a loan for the invoice. She gives me a check that was $1300 less than the invoice and then she turns me into the state electrical board and the state plumbing board for performing work as an unlicensed plumber and unlicensed electrician when she almost beeged me to install the switches and outlets because an electrician would be "too expensive" and I installed the two shut offs again because a plumber would be "too expensive"

What it appears to me is and the plumber that roughed the plumbing in is that she is trying to duck the remainder of the bill. I was her hero until I gave her the bill then I became the big bad contractor that did the work without being licensed. She wouldn't hire an electrician on the wiring the can lights until I insisted that she did. I told her there was too much liability and that I wasn't licensed. As far as the shut offs everything was roughed in and ready to go I didn't think that there would be a real problem in installing two simple 1/2" x 3/8" shut offs and running the p traps to the waste.

The plumber and I have a theory on what the inspectors will probably say since all I did was replace outlets and switches no running wire or tying into the panel and no other plumbing work other than installing two shut off valves but I am not going to say what our theory is so that I don't taint the discussion.

Tell me do you guys think I am in deep trouble or not.

I appreciate your time on this and look forward to your guys responses.


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## Forry (Feb 12, 2007)

Could go either way, but most likely, yeah, you're in big trouble. In my state, I've heard of people getting a $5,000 fine for not being licensed for the work. Best thing you can do is deny the whole thing. Did you write any plumbing or electrical on your invoice or proposal? Just say you didn't do it. And cross your fingers.


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## eagleandbaby (Oct 13, 2007)

What state are you in?


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## gregj (Jul 31, 2006)

It always amazes me when someone gets into a relationship with a married person and then is surprised when the new love cheats on them. It should be so obvious that anyone who will cheat on their spouse will cheat on their spouses replacement.

Similarly, if I walk into a situation where a potential client is putting the screws to their insurance company or other contractor I always run away quickly because I know I'll be the next one to get screwed.

Good luck. I don't think you'll be getting paid by the client and if a license is required to do the work you did I think it's going to cost you.


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## eagleandbaby (Oct 13, 2007)

It might also be a good idea to cut your losses and don't escalate the problem anymore. Be apologetic and nice to everyone until it blows over and learn from it.


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## silvertree (Jul 22, 2007)

Well I feel bad for you, you just learned one of life's little "in business for yourself lessons". It may blow over and for your sake I hope it does.


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## JamesNLA (Jun 2, 2006)

Well, the work you did typically does not require a permit, places are different with different rules. In CA you CAN do what you did so long as the total material and labor invoice does not exceed $500.00

Beyond the 500....she doesn't have to pay you, but a judge may or may not agree with that. The black and white of it, is she hired you to do a job, it is your responsibility to stay within the law, not hers. She sounds like a total degenerate and your contract means nothing because you have no license unless you live in one of thoes areas that do not require a license.

You screwd up by not getting money upfront. That would have told you right then and their how she was going to behave. She can't really do anything to you, other than not pay, but I would still sue her.


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Hope you learned a lesson.


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## gregj (Jul 31, 2006)

Who pulled the permits? Usually there would be an electric rough in and plumbing rough in inspection but it sounds like neither happened. Did your client "forget" to pull permits? In many locations it is ultimately the responsibility of the HO to pull permits and Homeowners can get pretty substantial fines for not pulling permits. This could be of some value to you if you play it right.


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## eagleandbaby (Oct 13, 2007)

An inspector may make her cut open all the walls again to see the work. This may be a bargaining tool for you because it would be more of an expense for you, but I would lean towards me earlier advice.


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## Paragon (Jul 22, 2007)

*I am in North Dakota*

I think the inspector is going to bark at me and tell me to not do it again.

I am not going to be nice and roll over simply because I replaced some recepticles and switches. I know this may seem pig headed and all and don't get me wrong I am a very political person. The problem with rolling over and playing "sweat" with her is she is doing this out of spite, not out of concern for safety.

The invoice that she got was for 4310.00 and it included fixing 20 holes in walls that her kids who fight like cats and dogs put in the walls. She siad go ahead and fix them. The ceilings had faux beams on the ceilings and those cam down and they were patched and sprayed. OHH AND I SHOULD SAY that if you want to see a snippet of the project come to my website paragonrenovations dot net and go to current projects and you will see the horrible beginnings.

anyways the funny thing is that when she was needing the work done to save a few bucks I was there for her. BUt now that she has her bill she is there for me with a daggar! Yes you are right I should have read between the lines but even the honest ones can turn out to be worthless.

Yes this is a case of ohhh **** and I have learned my lessons. I think that what will be required will be for me to have an electrician come in and ensure that it is okay. The funny part about it is I think she is trying to hang me on the project because she does not want to pay me. There is this little story about the project and it is going to be sad in the long run.

Tami ohh did I say her name? hired this little old guy she said was a licensed electrician when she wanted can lights installed and i told her I wouldn't do it because I wasn't licensed. Anyway there is this little ol guy who is a friend of their families that did the wiring. I know for a fact he is unlicensed and is scared to death of getting caught. He actually di dall of the wiring and all I did was hange out switches and plugs. Ray came in and did all of her work for her and walked off the job and didn't charge her a thing. He went into hiding and guess what? I have his name and his phone number. SO next week when the inspector call s guess what is going to happen?

I will give three cookies to the first correct guess!

This is a situation where she thinks she is going to take me and only me down but she is going to drag EVERYONE through the mud on this project. I knew the limitations of my license and I don't think there is a real big sting that is going to take place from REPLACING outlets and switches. I could be wrong on this one and I think since it is my first "violation" it will be a slap on the hands and a "don't do it again!" I would be concerned if I had tied into the panel or strung wire but I didn't and I will be sure to... ooooh I almost gave away the answer to the 3 cookie riddle.

This is good information and the plumber who actually gave me a heads up about the inspectors arriving even told the inspector that it is a case of "unhappy with the invoice" and not "concerned for her safety" This plumber is licensed and has over 30 years in the business and actually did my rough in on the job. Yes I know what you are all asking right now, "why didn't I have him do the work?" Well Tami didn't want to spend the money as she couldn't afford the plumbers rate!

Okay enough of that now who is going to be the winner of the 3 cookies?


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## Paragon (Jul 22, 2007)

*I am in North Dakota*

You guys are very supportive and I think you are all right. My normal policy is to get up front 1/3 labor and all materials and what I do not spend on materials goes toward satisfaction of th efinal invoice.

I did not handle the plumbing or the electrical and left that up to her to handle so I will definitly send that back on her. 

I will also let the inspector know that she is the one hiring all the people to "help her out" that aren't licensed and then she turns around and turns them all in.

Yes she is a degenerate and I have learned a valuable lesson here. There is another key factor at play in this one her Dad who is actually the one who advised her not to pay for the electrical and plumbing so I am guessing he is the reason the matter got turned into the state.


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## SelfContract (Dec 6, 2007)

We can not eat your cookies online, can't we? :thumbup:


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## Paragon (Jul 22, 2007)

*Self Contract no sorry but can you guess the correct answer*

I think Self Contract knows the answer


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## Ed the Roofer (Dec 12, 2006)

Nice website and progress photos.

But.....

You may want to reconsider what you write on there and say differently over here. It may have just been for bravado, but nonetheless..........

Ed

"*Our electrician quit the job and *

*so I have had to finish up his odds and ends. *

*The undercabinet lighting is installed the painting is complete, an over the range microwave has been installed, the new laminate floor is installed, the countertops have been installed."*


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## Ron The Plumber (Oct 10, 2006)

Hay Paragon I just have to ask you this one question.

If you come across a job like this again, knowing your not licensed properly, will you do it again?


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## Paragon (Jul 22, 2007)

Ron, 

Good question!

I am licensed to do the general work but not ANY ELECTRICAL OR PLUMBING!

I think you know the answer to this one and I think if I were to say "Heck Yeah" you would say "wow this guy just doesn't get it!"

No knowing what I know now not a chance in hell!!!

I now pass all of my plumbing work off to my Plumber and my electrical I pass of to another electrician.

This was a situation where I thought I was helping her out and she turned on me. This has been a very valuable lesson, golden in fact. I think it will be a verbal wanrning if anything and I will never touch something like this again.


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## Herk (Aug 1, 2007)

Paragon, there's an analogy I can think of that applies: people are always talking about how they arrest prostitutes, but not the johns. This lady wilfully hired unlicensed people and in your case wanted you to do something you weren't licensed to do. She should be considered in violation of the law as much as you are, if not more. 

One valuable lesson is: never take over a job from somebody else. There is a reason the electrician didn't come back.


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## RILEY PAINTING (Oct 17, 2007)

GREEGJ Has it right.You have been had.Give it up and learn from your mistake.


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## All Clear Sewer (Nov 8, 2006)

it`s all in how you answer the inspector questions ....trust me 

you has to pull the switches n stuff to repaid the drywall right  didn't do any wiring just pulled this stuff right 

Most of the time a GC can pull that stuff to do his work. 

Hope you come out for the best and kick that ***** in the ass


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