# Final inspections and getting paid



## Mike Finley

I'll explain how it works in my business - 

1st off, in Colorado permits and licensing is dictated on the municipality level, meaning the county you are in if you are outside of the city limits in a county or the city if you are inside the city limits. In the Denver area we have about 15-20 different cities that make up the metro area. I work with about 12 different building departments and hold 12 separate licenses. 

Not only are all 12 not on the same code books, they also get the default gotcha that code is subject to the local building depts interpretation and changes.

2nd -- when it comes to inspectons in what I do, finals are nothing but a 2 minute inspection where the electrical inspection is making sure the outlets are GFCI, the plumbing inspection is basically turning on the water... etc... This is FINALS I'm talking about.

The real meat of anything that is going to be a problem is covered under the roughs not the finals. We have roughs and final for elec, HVAC and plumbing, along with those roughs we have drywall fastening, insulation, shower pan etc... and of course every jurisdiction is different in how they inspect, how they group them and what they want to see, do they require a shower pan inspection? Do they want to see drains pressure tested or not? ect... etc..

Regardless, problems are always going to be in the rough stage not finals. At the rough the inspector is looking for what will be covered up later, think about it. It's pretty damn rare in the scope of things to have an issue at final, it's all going to be issues during the rough where the meat is.

So failing inspections or not is about roughs not finals. And as I outlined, we have many, many different things to keep track of, we have a 200 page notebook that keeps track of all the different code issues that make up our work area, each building dept has it's own section and it outlines what that building dept wants. 

Even with all that if you think you aren't going to run into an issue, just based on the 50 different inspectors you are going to cycle through, when working in all those areas, you're crazy. And the more work you do the more you are exposing yourself to more of these opportunities. 

Working out here like we do does not mean we are seeing one electrical inspector for the last 10 years, it means we are seeing 10-15 different electrical inspectors during a year. And the same for plumbing and other inspectors.

Regardless, none of this that I am saying has anything to do with the original subject, other then to get the idea across that finals are never a problem, surprises at final are very rare. However it's not rare to have some inspector trip up your plumber or electrician during the rough in stages by sticking to some arcaic code issue, or just cause he is having a bad day and is pissed at all these contractors getting rich while he isn't.


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## ApgarNJ

I agree mike. Finals are usually routine quick inspections and it's over. as you stated, rough ins are where it's at. 
All depends what type of jobs each person does. some are much easier at rough inspections than others.


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## mudpad

On a large school project in TN, the final is an all day affair with the State Fire Marshall, Local Fire Marshall, and local building inspector, along with the MP and E subs. Flows are checked on the fire line, sprinkler pumps are cycled, fire alarm systems checked along with interface with sprinkler, elevator and fire dampers. All emergency lighting in checked, ansul systems at the kitchen hood, etc, etc. Finals are a big deal in my world, but its more of a life safety inspection. I got one to look forward to sometime in the next 2 weeks. (I gotta get that scheduled!)


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## olligator

Mike,

I feel where you're coming from with all the municipalities I work in down here. While the state building code is the underlying bible, each municpality likes to add their own extra nonsense to the mix to make themselves feel important and justify their existence. I think you're right on with the rough inspections- that's where any issues are going to be found. Depending on the situation, I may tie progress payments to the inspections, but for sure I tie payment to my subs to the inspection cycle. Gotta keep 'em honest. For final, I'll do a 10% retainage, depending on the job size. For something small I'll do a 50 down, 50 on final split. Whereas if the inspector wants to change a bunch of other stuff you didn't have anything to do with, that's a legit change order, with payment terms seperate from the original contract payment terms (if they need to be)

Mike you'll appreciate this: Florida code requires shower pan liners to be pitched 1/4" per foot to the drain. Ok, no big deal, so you pitch a mortar bed underneath the liner. Well the City of Hollywood wants the liner on the slab with the bed on top. The City of Pompano Beach wants the pitch per state code, but then wants you to fold the corners of the liner a very specific way. Hallandale Beach inspectors wanted a pan liner on the slab but with an extra couple of inches up the walls (state code says 3" min. above dam). These provisions aren't published either, that's just how the building departments roll.



Interestingly enough, I neglected to point out that I have typed this reply while waiting for a final inspection for flooring in Miami Beach!


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## Mike Finley

olligator said:


> Mike,
> 
> I feel where you're coming from with all the municipalities I work in down here. While the state building code is the underlying bible, each municpality likes to add their own extra nonsense to the mix to make themselves feel important and justify their existence. I think you're right on with the rough inspections- that's where any issues are going to be found. Depending on the situation, I may tie progress payments to the inspections, but for sure I tie payment to my subs to the inspection cycle. Gotta keep 'em honest. For final, I'll do a 10% retainage, depending on the job size. For something small I'll do a 50 down, 50 on final split. Whereas if the inspector wants to change a bunch of other stuff you didn't have anything to do with, that's a legit change order, with payment terms seperate from the original contract payment terms (if they need to be)
> 
> Mike you'll appreciate this: Florida code requires shower pan liners to be pitched 1/4" per foot to the drain. Ok, no big deal, so you pitch a mortar bed underneath the liner. Well the City of Hollywood wants the liner on the slab with the bed on top. The City of Pompano Beach wants the pitch per state code, but then wants you to fold the corners of the liner a very specific way. Hallandale Beach inspectors wanted a pan liner on the slab but with an extra couple of inches up the walls (state code says 3" min. above dam). These provisions aren't published either, that's just how the building departments roll.
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly enough, I neglected to point out that I have typed this reply while waiting for a final inspection for flooring in Miami Beach!


 :thumbsup:


Just a few days ago, one of my guys called me after the drywall fastening inspection, said the inspector said that he will be the one doing the shower pan inspection and just wanted to let us know that he wants to see the pan liner up over the bench in the rear of the shower. Said he will make a note on the inspection card about it for when he comes back. 

I'm like... what? What did he say? Trying to make sure my guy really had this right. He repeats it to me again and I tell him, don't be doing any changes to anything, we aren't going to be having a liner up over the bench, I'll call the inspector.

Call the inspector and "gently" and "politically correctly" question this grand poo bah on what he is talking about... 

... sure enough he wants a liner over the bench. 

Now it's finesse time... um... I'm not aware of that code.... hmmm... wow, I really appreciate how thorough you are.... wow, you are the man.... umm... WTF are you talking about??????? :blink:

How exactly would we get a liner up a bench and be able to attach the underlayment to the face of the bench??????????? Wouldn't that mean we are screwing through the liner?









By the way, where is this in the code, just for my own reference so I know for next time?

Ummm.... oh yeah, I guess that would be a problem... ummm..

Okay, how about we just do it the way we always do it and we Denshield the bench and then we apply a water proofer to the horizontal surface (even though it's not required by code).

Oh yeah! That would work, do that. I'll check for the water proofing and it should be okay.

Okay.  (check all you want bro, but it ain't part of the your job.)

:laughing:


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## wireless

mudpad said:


> I guess legally, if your contract doesn't say anything about passing final inspection, you are entitled to get paid. But if your work is complete, why can't you call the inspector and get your final inspection? Is there some other trade involved that is holding up your payment?


 
I have at least two jobs which as far as I know have never been finaled. Both of them were because the owner demoed the garage. The Inspector was perfectly fine with my work but they didn't have a permit for the other work so he wouldn't final.


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## mudpad

wireless said:


> I have at least two jobs which as far as I know have never been finaled. Both of them were because the owner demoed the garage. The Inspector was perfectly fine with my work but they didn't have a permit for the other work so he wouldn't final.


That would obviously be the problem of the owner, and they should pay up to you and deal with the codes issues. New construction is a different animal.


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## olligator

Now that I'm waiting for building final today, I had to revisit this thread.

I have the final statement prepared for the owner, which includes the cost-plus change orders for electrical and plumbing upgrades mandated by the city, as he was red-tagged for remodelling his unit illegally. I kept the payment terms for the change orders for final payment in full upon completion of final inspection. Balance due is about 3.5k. This particular customer has been a PITA about any sort of contract or change orders, but regardless, he has signed each one after going through each piece of paper line by line with me. However, at one point he told me to get my money from the hack that fubar'd his unit in the first place. WTF I said. My contract is with you, the HO, not the hack. HO really gave me a hard time about it. I had to stop work completely until change orders were signed or another solution was found, as he was playing games about reviewing the documents etc. All that being said, we shall see about final payment upon final inspection today. Lien paperwork has been prepared in advance if needed.

Final inspection day = day of reckoning


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## jimmys

*good luck*

OllieG- that sounds very sticky. Report back if you guys scuffled on the floor or what!
Jim


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## olligator

*False Alarm last week, live entertainment this week!*

The city blew off my final last week, so it was rescheduled for today. The downside is that the customer has already gone back home up north, so now final payment has tp be transacted by mail. Thank you building department, thanks alot. So if I get paid within 2 weeks I'll consider myself lucky. Lien paperwork is back on deck just in case. 

--Hacks vs. Cuidad de Pompano Beach, Martes, en vivo!!--

While I'm sitting here in the parking lot burning gas waiting to meet the inspector (to walk him up to the unit) I'm watching a van with two suspected hacks unload a few buckets of mud, paint & primer, and random drywall tools into a yet unidentified unit. Why do I suspect they're hacks?

1. Any real contractor that does anything around condos has a cart for unloading tools, and doesn't use the building's stolen shopping carts to take tools and materials up to the unit.

2. No legit guys are going to have black wifebeaters and multiple (4) gold chains with their saggy drawers hanging off their butt anywhere, let alone when on a jobsite. At least not any jobsite I've been on.

3. No legit guys are going to wait until they think nobody's looking to haul their junk up to a unit ninja-style either.

4. My permit is the only open permit at this building Hmmmm.

Unfortunately for them, I don't think they realize that the chief building inspector is going to be here shortly. This city is such that inspectors actively challenge anyone they see for permits, licensure, and insurance. If you don't have your papers in order comrade, they give you one chance to leave before they call the sheriff. I have already seen the plumbing inspector send a "handyman" away with his tail between his legs at this building. Keeping karma in mind, these tards are so obvious I don't need to say anything to the building inspector when he shows. At least I get the front row seat to the action!


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