# am i getting ripped off?



## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Unless it's already a rule, leave your cell phone in your car too.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

The last time I paid a guy less than $10/hr. it was because he was more of a liability than an asset. 

He had a substance abuse problem and always had that "hung over" look. He was slow, he dragged his feet, he was always half "out of it" and easily distracted. He was always running his mouth about everything but the task at hand.. giving unsolicited suggestions on how I should run the company and how he can make extra money on the side, etc. 

Sure, he came to work on time and came every day but everyone else that works with me shows up on time also.


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## mudpad (Dec 26, 2008)

72chevy4x4 said:


> With my experience, two weeks is a good time frame from hiring a new guy and watching his performance to determine if he's BS'ing and putting on a show or the real deal.


Years ago (funny how alot of my posts start with those words) I hired a guy through a temp service. Did a great job for a couple of weeks, and we needed an elevator operator on a 10 story office building. I told the guy that I would give him the job, all he's gotta do is sit on a 5 gallon bucket and push buttons getting trades to the floors. "Great' he says, "but if I go to work for you I will have to wait 2 weeks for a check, can you loan me $100 to hold me thru?" ($100 bucks went a lot farther back in the 80's)

Long story short, I loan him the $100, that evening he's on the 6 o'clock news. Seems he went from work and held up a jewelry store next door, held 2 girls hostage for a couple hours, called the police and the TV stations and reported himself, cut his own ear off with a utility knife. TV news footage showed him strapped to a stretcher kicking, screaming, and bleeding with swat team escort to the looney bin. Never saw that $100 again.

Moral of story, you don't know squat about somebody after 2 weeks.:laughing:


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## Gus Dering (Oct 14, 2008)

You are not getting ripped off. You agreed to hire on for that wage.

You just sold yourself short. Now you just need to make it different for yourself.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

There's a skill to pushing a broom. One who is very good is worth at least twice what a new person is worth - they'll get it done in half the time and do a better job. That's one of the reasons professional cleaners around here get $25 an hour - they'll do a lot better job way faster than someone off the street.


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

Good point. I can tell how a guy is going to work out by the way he cleans a room out at the end of the day.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

yellowcrab23 said:


> am i a sucker to be working a job as a laborer that only sweeps the floor and digs ditches and does other grunt work for only $7.25 an hour? I keep telling myself to stick with the job because the pay might eventually get better, but i feel like im busting my ass for little money. Do you guys think im wrong to be thinking this?


Where are you located :blink:



Inner10 said:


> Minimum wage here is 10.25 I couldn't imagine paying someone less than 12.


Out here the guy the sweeps and hauls out rubbish gets 15$ per hour.


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## steex (Feb 19, 2013)

mudpad said:


> cut his own ear off with a utility knife


Did OSHA ever find out about that?


I'm not much of an operation, but I hire what I consider "helpers" for $12.50 an hour on a part-time basis. That way it works out to $100 a day if they work eight hours, and if it's really more like seven I will go ahead and round it up. I expect those people to clean, move material, dig, finish drywall and masonry, paint, assist me with heavy or difficult tasks, and if they have any time left over maybe learn some carpentry. I think I'm a pretty decent boss, and it would probably be a pretty good gig for some people, except I don't keep them employed all the time. There are plenty of days and even some weeks when I just don't need any help.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

I was tarring foundations when I was 12 years old. Good days wheel cement then clean up the sites. I was told by my grand father if you want to be a good leader then you must be able to take the tools out of any ones hands a perform the task with out issue. Looking back he was right but had a hard time seeing it then.

See it through I dont look at any empl. for a raise for min 6 mon. and for the record min wage was 3.25 per hr then


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## Marven (Jul 15, 2013)

This is your chance to learn a new trade. Be the best sweeper there is. Pretend that you like your work. Ask your boss if there is another job you can learn. Be eager to help. Figure out how to work your way up to a better paying job. everyone starts somewhere.


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

I started at $4 per hour. With that being said I am constantly hiring guys that over state their qualifications. It is best to start at the bottom and work up. Learn as much as you can so when it comes to raises you can honestly state your qualifications. Everybody wants to start at the top. 
We start all of our laborers at $8 per hour cash. I have been known to promote a guy after his first day. Of course I have a laborer that has worked for me for 2 years and hasn't earned a raise. He is always late and calling in for some reason or another. I like the guy but what can I do.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

I started at 5. I look at a lot if things when I'm paying guys. And I paid everywhere from 7.50 to 28 an hour. My laborer is making 9 right now. He's been with me for 6 months. Started him at 7.50 he showed me he wanted to learn bumped him to 8 after a few weeks and bumped him to 9 after a few months. If he keeps improving he will be making 12 by the end of the year. He came to me with no skills at all so the more he learns the more he makes. 

I don't know how you can be getting ripped off when you agreed to the wage you are making.


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## FlyFishRI (Aug 17, 2013)

I think anything less than $10 is a joke. Maybe $10 for a 16 year old is reasonable to start but even with two people making $10 an hour and living together it would be hard to live. 

Someone with a little skills in carpentry for example is likely to get paid more than the general labor but in my opinion, if the laborer is good at what he does and is efficient, he should make more because he is doing all the chit that I don't want to be doing. 

If I have a guy that can do simple carpentry like base and help me install cabinets but that is about it, the guy that is cleaning up for me, getting me materials and digging holes is the guy that is more valuable to me.


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## skillman (Sep 23, 2011)

FlyFishRI said:


> I think anything less than $10 is a joke.


Totally agree . People have to remember that it is 2013 life costs so much . Pay cheap get crap workers .


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

I remember it is 2013 everyday. I also realize that the economy crashed in 2008 because everyone was getting paid way to much. Now everyone has this false sense of entitlement and think that a labor is an apprentice carpenter. No he is still a laborer. 
Do you have your own tools? Your own transportation? Can you operate a circular saw without supervision? This is some of the requirements of an apprentice. 
I was a labor for a long time before I got a raise.
With this being said if you can make more money and improve yourself elsewhere then go and do it.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

I went to work for my Dad at 15 ..1984. at $8 an hour.
After 1 year I was a pro!!!:laughing: So I asked Dad for a raise!
He said ..A RAISE FOR WHAT!! Your still in training boy! You should be paying ME!!! A year later I got that raise in pay then later on went to piece work. $7.50 per hour in 2013 for a helper??? A hard working helper that shows up without any issues is well worth $100 per day. 
Unless he's Mexican!:whistling:whistling


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

My crew in DC is almost entirely Spanish and guess what they *Earn* more then $8 an hour. They do roof tear offs in half the time of my other crews.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

FSCROB said:


> My crew in DC is almost entirely Spanish and guess what they *Earn* more then $8 an hour. They do roof tear offs in half the time of my other crews.


 They work different. Gen more on site then other crews. If you pay attention they dont bust ass any more then the next. That being said how are they structured with you. Day rate? sub?


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

FSCROB said:


> My crew in DC is almost entirely Spanish and guess what they *Earn* more then $8 an hour. They do roof tear offs in half the time of my other crews.


$8.50?:whistling


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## FlyFishRI (Aug 17, 2013)

If someone is worth less than $10, they aren't worth having around in the first place.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Flag ship said:


> They work different. Gen more on site then other crews. If you pay attention they dont bust ass any more then the next. That being said how are they structured with you. Day rate? sub?


You can't sub out to an illegal...Legally


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

Flag ship said:


> They work different. Gen more on site then other crews. If you pay attention they dont bust ass any more then the next. That being said how are they structured with you. Day rate? sub?


First of all my guys are legal. I have even sponsored 2 guys for their papers. That part of my company does a lot of work on security sensitive projects, so they have to be legal. 
I pay them hourly and the laborer on this crew *Earns* more then $15 an hour.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Marven said:


> This is your chance to learn a new trade. Be the best sweeper there is.


I got a job once because of how I swept floors. 



> Be eager to help.


:thumbsup: But also don't be eager to learn, they need to get off their obama and put in some off-time effort. I know I and others have said this before.

Today I had a helper that had been working in the trades for a while. Dunno as it was hard to tell as he spent most of his time with his earbuds in doing his 'work', but today he was mine. I had to show him how to cut with saws, how to use a speed square (for cuts), and yes to clean up (working in a commercial place while it's open for business). 

And why hasn't this clown taken the time to search the internet for very simple, DIY tips and tricks? *because they are lazy*.
Oh, the clowns here also show up on time....gotta do that in order to get their full paycheck for the week....just not turn out product so the owner of the company can actually make a profit.....thus stay in business.  There's a change in the air.....

Oh, so do we know anything about the OP other than he feels underpaid for whatever he may or may not do?


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

FSCROB said:


> My crew in DC is almost entirely Spanish


I've been to spain a few times. I don't like madrid at all as it's just another european city. Some of the southern and southwestern areas of spain are really nice. 
Where in spain are your spanish workers from?


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

FSCROB said:


> part of my company does a lot of work on security sensitive projects, so they have to be legal.


:laughing: Thanks for the laugh.

How is the process for spanish immigrants? I think europeans and--well everyone but mexicans--mostly come here in some sort of visa, then overstay it. Did your workers from spain overstay their visas? I"d think spanish people would be easier to get legal status for as spain a a whole lot less corrupt than the mexican government. Costa rica is valid, as is chile and columbia, but none of those are spain, so I'm digressing.


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

CO762 said:


> I've been to spain a few times. I don't like madrid at all as it's just another european city. Some of the southern and southwestern areas of spain are really nice.
> Where in spain are your spanish workers from?


They are of Spanish heritage. I respect my people by calling them Spanish since they are not just Mexican. I have guys from El Savador, Chile, Hondurus and Mexico. 

So don't be a racist jackass.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

FSCROB said:


> First of all my guys are legal. I have even sponsored 2 guys for their papers. That part of my company does a lot of work on security sensitive projects, so they have to be legal.
> I pay them hourly and the laborer on this crew *Earns* more then $15 an hour.




Thats good its a mind set imo. First gen to the us have diff work views then 2 and 3rd do. Now as for american workers I agree and disagree with you on willing to work hard. I find the biggest issue is the me or I issue. The new workers has zerosafty nets that pushes you more wouldnt you say. Basically we are no longer a we country we become a me country.
Getting to the pay 15 per hr isnt huge they are 80's labor rates for 1/2 ass carpenters.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

CO762 said:


> :laughing: *Thanks for the laugh*.
> 
> How is the process for spanish immigrants? I think europeans and--well everyone but mexicans--mostly come here in some sort of visa, then overstay it. Did your workers from spain overstay their visas? I"d think spanish people would be easier to get legal status for as spain a a whole lot less corrupt than the mexican government. Costa rica is valid, as is chile and columbia, but none of those are spain, so I'm digressing.


 I do work on air force bases nasa etc the imagrant or illegal workers exist. Its sounds good though


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

Flag ship said:


> Thats good its a mind set imo. First gen to the us have diff work views then 2 and 3rd do. Now as for american workers I agree and disagree with you on willing to work hard. I find the biggest issue is the me or I issue. The new workers has zerosafty nets that pushes you more wouldnt you say. Basically we are no longer a we country we become a me country.
> Getting to the pay 15 per hr isnt huge they are 80's labor rates for 1/2 ass carpenters.


15 an hour is laborer rates. These are hard working men because that is how they were raised and taught. If they didn't work hard they didn't eat. They just aren't lazy.


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## Okiecontractor (Oct 15, 2012)

tedanderson said:


> The last time I paid a guy less than $10/hr. it was because he was more of a liability than an asset.
> 
> He had a substance abuse problem and always had that "hung over" look. He was slow, he dragged his feet, he was always half "out of it" and easily distracted. He was always running his mouth about everything but the task at hand.. giving unsolicited suggestions on how I should run the company and how he can make extra money on the side, etc.
> 
> Sure, he came to work on time and came every day but everyone else that works with me shows up on time also.


His name wasn't roy was it? I have one of those. Drives me crazy.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

FSCROB said:


> 15 an hour is laborer rates. These are hard working men because that is how they were raised and taught. If they didn't work hard they didn't eat. They just aren't lazy.


 call it a spade they come from areas of the world with little to no social economic safty nets. That changes every thing. not all areas are like that just the 3rd world ones. It is also a large reason why the quality and pay scales are down over the past 20 yrs av cost of living has out paced physical pay rate 120%. So hard to complain about the willing or lake of eager workers when this flood of help is allowed now for the next wave of 20 pluss mill right?


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

FSCROB said:


> They are of Spanish heritage.


So then you are english? I'm sorry, but you are paternally ignorant of what you call "my people".

BTW, spanish isn't a race, just as canada isn't one, panamenos aren't one, etc. You're boring.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Flag ship said:


> I do work on air force bases nasa etc the imagrant or illegal workers exist. Its sounds good though


http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/feb/26/undocumented-workers-return-after-raid-at/

I could tell you stories, but I'm just an account on the internet and don't want to have obama's irs, dhs, usdoj, epa, etc. drain my finances into me living in the street, under a bridge, but silent.

Here's another one:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/0...uspect-bought-bomb-materials-at-beauty-shops/
DIA (denver int'l airport turned into very high security, btw)


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

I haven't seen minimum wage paid on a construction job in many years.

Just what exactly can you bring to the table? any skills or experience?

How old are you?

Are you on the deck ready to work at starting time?

DO NOT EVER JUST STAND AROUND....:thumbsup:

Be busy doing something....


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Needing more information....OP. Prolly one of the one post wonders that frequent here. But sometimes it brings up good discussions....


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

CO762 said:


> So then you are english? I'm sorry, but you are paternally ignorant of what you call "my people".
> 
> BTW, spanish isn't a race, just as canada isn't one, panamenos aren't one, etc. You're boring.


I am actually Italian.:clap:


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

FSCROB said:


> My crew in DC is almost entirely Spanish and guess what they *Earn* more then $8 an hour. They do roof tear offs in half the time of my other crews.














FlyFishRI said:


> If someone is worth less than $10, they aren't worth having around in the first place.


Tell them McDonalds is hiring :thumbsup:



FSCROB said:


> They are of Spanish heritage. I respect my people by calling them Spanish since they are not just Mexican. I have guys from El Savador, Chile, Hondurus and Mexico.
> 
> So don't be a racist jackass.


 So it's now racist to call a Mexican a Mexican:blink: Spanish people come from Spain, when they move away and cross breed with others they are called Hispanic! This term implys they have a history of Spanish in their back ground. You call them Spanish because you don't like the fact that you bring in turd world people to do Americans jobs. You are the problem!


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

He did say they are all legal, didn't he?


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

jlsconstruction said:


> He did say they are all legal, didn't he?


Don't they all:blink:


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## KEPC (Jan 13, 2010)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> Tell them McDonalds is hiring :thumbsup:
> 
> So it's now racist to call a Mexican a Mexican:blink: Spanish people come from Spain, when they move away and cross breed with others they are called Hispanic! This term implys they have a history of Spanish in their back ground. You call them Spanish because you don't like the fact that you bring in turd world people to do Americans jobs. You are the problem!


Technically, the term that differentiates _people_ from Spain is Spaniard, not Spanish. Spanish, a term used more in the Northern parts of the US, and is interchangeable when referencing anything related to Spanish speaking people and cultures. 

In the South, Southwest, and Western parts of the US, there is a higher propensity to actually identify with the actual nationality as oppose to the North where it doesn't matter if you are eating Puerto Rican, Dominican, Colombian food, it is referred to as Spanish food. 

Hispanic is a US government invention of as a means of classifying demographics. Nobody from actual Latin America or Spain or Portugal refer to themselves as Hispanic. 

Not to play devil's advocate, but many US policies like NAFTA, Big Farm subsidies has wiped out many sectors (agro, manufacturing) of employment in Latin American markets. In many instances the Wal Mart effect has occured where a multinational US conglomerate buys out a domestic firm, automates its operation using fewer hands, and eliminates more than half the workforce. If immigration is a problem, its because the US has had a direct hand creating it. Japan and Mexico strongly urged Bill Clinton not to sign with the devil (the Chinese) and I believe they were right. 

Whether you are in favor of immigration reform or not is not my business, but immigration and welfare have a direct correlation. The war on poverty has cost 15 trillion dollars, basically the national debt. It is a war that has been lost. When you have 35 states where a person can collect in welfare what they would make on a minimum wage job, don't blame immigrants for taking jobs away. When you have 12 states pay out the equivalent of a $15hr job in welfare benefits, don't blame immigrants. 

But to stay true to the thread, YES, i do believe that 7.25 per hour is a rip off. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.


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## blacktop (Oct 28, 2012)

Good point KEPC.. It's a shame..


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Not saying your pay is fair or unfair because I don't completely know the situation, however I had a guy come to me and say hey Mike, I'm here everyday, on time and work hard can I get a raise. My reply was your supposed to be here everyday, on time and work hard, why do I have to pay extra for that?


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

KEPC said:


> Technically, the term that differentiates _people_ from Spain is Spaniard, not Spanish. Spanish, a term used more in the Northern parts of the US, and is interchangeable when referencing anything related to Spanish speaking people and cultures.
> 
> In the South, Southwest, and Western parts of the US, there is a higher propensity to actually identify with the actual nationality as oppose to the North where it doesn't matter if you are eating Puerto Rican, Dominican, Colombian food, it is referred to as Spanish food.
> 
> ...



well said. So not a slick billy fan I'd say.
Are gov dropped the ball back in the 80's with the last wave of reform. But what do you expext from the the gas lines of the 70's cause such good ideas fighting off high pump cost shortages and o wait the brazil


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

KEPC said:


> Technically, the term that differentiates _people_ from Spain is Spaniard, not Spanish. Spanish, a term used more in the Northern parts of the US, and is interchangeable when referencing anything related to Spanish speaking people and cultures.
> 
> In the South, Southwest, and Western parts of the US, there is a higher propensity to actually identify with the actual nationality as oppose to the North where it doesn't matter if you are eating Puerto Rican, Dominican, Colombian food, it is referred to as Spanish food.
> 
> ...


Very well spoken.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

FSCROB said:


> I started at $4 per hour. With that being said I am constantly hiring guys that over state their qualifications. It is best to start at the bottom and work up. Learn as much as you can so when it comes to raises you can honestly state your qualifications. Everybody wants to start at the top.
> We start all of our laborers at $8 per hour cash. I have been known to promote a guy after his first day. Of course I have a laborer that has worked for me for 2 years and hasn't earned a raise. He is always late and calling in for some reason or another. I like the guy but what can I do.


Saw two red flags in this post... why do you pay in cash? What about withholdings, etc.?

Would be an administrative nightmare unless you are paying cash only under the table...

Why would you keep a guy for two years who is constantly late and calling out for some reason or another? Lack of respect for you and your crew and your company in general IMHO...


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

This is my last word on this subject. I do work all over the country. I have an office in DC, Detroit, MI and Port Charlotte, Fl. I have guys of all nationalities working for me. My crew in Detroit is 50% black and 50% white. My crew in Florida is mostly white and some Cubans. my DC crew is almost entirely Spanish speaking people from all over. All of my people are hardworking tax payers. The only jobs they took from anybody are from lazy people that don't want to work. 

We are in the year 2013 the cost of all our goods have gone up. The cost of fuel has increased. The fee we collect from our clients has either decreased or stayed the same. If we are going to survive in this economy we need to make cuts some where. Unfortunately the cuts are made in our paychecks. We have to do more with less.
This thread is asking if $7.25 is a fair wage. We don't know anything about this guy or the company he is working for. We don't know his skill level or experience. If he is a new person just starting out with no useable experience, then no $7.25 is not unfair. This is the official starting point. You can not expect to make more money until you have more skills. Most grocery stores, fast food, department stores, manufacturing shops, and so on in my area start people at minimum wage. After they have either put the proper amount of time in or received the proper amount of education they then will climb up the pay scale. Do not set this kid up for failure and tell him he is worth more when you have no idea what he is worth. 

Going back to the Spanish debate. My wife's grandmother is from Spain she considers herself of Spanish heritage.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

KEPC said:


> You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.


I thought you'd get elephants

Or maybe squirrels


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

KAP said:


> Saw two red flags in this post... why do you pay in cash? What about withholdings, etc.?
> 
> Would be an administrative nightmare unless you are paying cash only under the table...
> 
> Why would you keep a guy for two years who is constantly late and calling out for some reason or another? Lack of respect for you and your crew and your company in general IMHO...


I pay guys starting out in cash because the IRS allows for a certain amount of day labor. This helps the guys out quite a lot. When they get a pay increase they start receiving a standard check. I typically review their performance after 45 days. 

As for the guy that is always late and disrespects me and my business I have my own reason for keeping him around. Lets just say he has his purpose.


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

FSCROB said:


> I pay guys starting out in cash because the IRS allows for a certain amount of day labor.


Uhhhhh..... What? This would be news to me.


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

onmywayup said:


> Uhhhhh..... What? This would be news to me.


They allow you to deduct up to $200 per day in day labor. Look it up.


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

FSCROB said:


> They allow you to deduct up to $200 per day in day labor. Look it up.


Nothing would make me happier, believe me. 
Time to send a quick email to my CPA. 

Anybody else wanna weigh in on this?


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## jhark123 (Aug 26, 2008)

Also, in for the answer to this one.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

FSCROB said:


> I am actually Italian.:clap:


My grandparents were boat people, from sicily. They couldn't speak much english and died that way, but they made sure everyone knew they and their offspring were americans. They got respect for who they were, in spite of the two uses for a **** stick.

I've got nothing against you and am not riding you. But....

Those mysterious/made up 'hispanics' are areas colonized by the spainards, and mostly "indians". I don't know of anyplace in the americas where the spanish colonized that isn't the severe class structure of europe, thus everyone there wants to be 'spanish' and not 
the indios (indians/natives/blah blah blah). There's a common saying in those countries, "mejorar la raza" that the mothers/grandmothers use when pawning off their daughters. I don't know how much further I should go into this fact as last time I used multicultural discussions/facts, I was banned from this website.

I guess just watch univision/telemundo/etc. and tell me what all the people on those stations look like. Then compare them to the people you call "my people".

Lot's of people are being conned and have been for a while in the former country called the us. For those still here and working, let's not make it any harder on them.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

jlsconstruction said:


> He did say they are all legal, didn't he?


As president obama, I'll chime in here (yes, I am the president, you can quote me on that).

Do you know how unbelieveably hard it is to get a visa from mehico? Last time I was there it took years and a lot of corrupt payoffs at 85 different levels, ever increasing the amount relative to how much 'stroke' you needed from the democr--I mean, the mexican party machine (pri/pan, la misma mierda).

Once I tried to get someone here from another 'hispanic' (trade route) country, but there was such a thing called a 'sponsor' in order to proceed.

So with all of these mythical 'hispanics' in this former nation getting government benefits due to indigence, where are their sponsors?  :laughing:

Funny stuff. Glad I don't have kids.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Good post KEPC.

My experience is that made up people 'hispanic' never want to be identified as from where they are from....unless they are lower eschelon peons living in an area where it's OK to be them, so they proudly state they are "mexicans". Other central americans don't display this trait, but then again, 80% of the illegals in this former nation are from mexico. 20% are OTMs.

There are older areas of the southwest that use "old spanish", like northern NM, just like canadian french is "old french". But most of those areas in the us are have now been acculturalized into mexican.
There's not the isolation anymore.

So why does telemundo/univisoin not reflect 90% of their country? 
Even in their telenovelas? Criadas, mejor la raza. Contractors working in mehico think their "indios" are savages and treat them like fecal matter. "Mejor la raza"...."improve the race"....meaning never marry anyone darker than you....spanish vs. natives/indians/indios. 

FWIW, a lot of trade route people identify themselves as 'spanish'.



> Hispanic is a US government invention of as a means of classifying demographics. Nobody from actual Latin America or Spain or Portugal refer to themselves as Hispanic.


I agree, hispanic is just a made up word, but 'latin/latino' is less so. Italians are latinos too. Anyone speaking a romance language is, by definition, a latino/a. 

Crazy stuff out there, in this politically correct world where we have now arrived. Heck, african american refers to a color, no matter if the person came here from africa and is white. 

The world we live in seems to be driven by political/personal agendas and they are disseminated by the use, or prohibited use, of certain words in order to have the masses have the masses be 'correct' in thought.

Crazy stuff.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

FSCROB said:


> My crew in Florida is mostly white and some Cubans.


Hey leave them cubanos alone! I learned engrish with the marielitos! 



> All of my people are hardworking tax payers.


How do you know that?
Are these employees or subs?
SSN/TIN/ITIN numbers?

If employees of yours, how did you verify their actual identity?
On the IRS forms, how many deductions do they claim?
Did they claim 'exempt'?

So many holes there for people used to living in corrupt cultures....just had to ask.

Know of a lot of people that used one ID to work and another to get benefits. So much stealing/graft going on, no wonder nationally and most states are going down the tubes. Yet we continue to argue about nothing, meaningless things.....


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## kookoomouse (Jan 31, 2013)

Wow!
Were did the OP go? I don't even remember what he..
OH.. !
Hang in there kid. At 12 I mowed lawns. One old lady would pay me $2.00 for a 2 hour job. I didn't see a problem.
Later (after some word of mouth around town) I locked on to another old lady with the smallest lawn I have ever seen! Took me 30 minutes and got 5 bucks! Ya BABY!
Then I had to let first old lady down and tell hell her I can't do this anymore for that pay and um "you owe me 2 dollars for the last cut than I never got."
She paid by throwing 8 quarters it at me. I only found 7 of them. bummer that was my profit and was going to use for gas/oil mix for my dads lawn boy. Dammit!
She badmouthed around town so bad I lost half my clients. I had 8 now I was down to 4!
There was a 3rd old lady I should mention.. My Aunt. She paid 7 bucks! MY dad felt bad about me using the lawn boy to mow all that grass and got me an antique 1950 WTF is that rider.
Worked great for about two weeks but doing Ethel's she went wide open on me. The Dad Gam throttle plate dropped off and had one more strip to go. Bog it down Done!
Darm mower at 6000 Rpm's let go the right in her front yard while heading home. Nice!
Yup It knocked a hole in the crankcase and spewed oil all over her whatever they are plants. 
After the no piston motor wound down I noticed the oil on the grass. Spreading. 

There's more to this but this is a serous thread drift And I did not start it! Its you guys. :whistling


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## RAbraker (Jan 26, 2011)

FSCROB said:


> We are in the year 2013 the cost of all our goods have gone up. The cost of fuel has increased. The fee we collect from our clients has either decreased or stayed the same. If we are going to survive in this economy we need to make cuts some where. Unfortunately the cuts are made in our paychecks. We have to do more with less.
> This thread is asking if $7.25 is a fair wage. We don't know anything about this guy or the company he is working for. We don't know his skill level or experience. If he is a new person just starting out with no useable experience, then no $7.25 is not unfair. This is the official starting point. You can not expect to make more money until you have more skills. Most grocery stores, fast food, department stores, manufacturing shops, and so on in my area start people at minimum wage. After they have either put the proper amount of time in or received the proper amount of education they then will climb up the pay scale. Do not set this kid up for failure and tell him he is worth more when you have no idea what he is worth.


I don't care how unskilled he is, a laborer should get paid more than someone folding clothes in a Walmart or flipping burgers. Humping lumber and digging holes is a heck of a lot more work and should be compensated accordingly. No sane person is going to work three times as hard in blistering heat and and the brutal cold for the same minimum wage they could get standing around organizing the toy rack in an air conditioned supercenter.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

I am confused. So you don't hire illegals yet you sponsored some illegals for citizenship ? 
Why would you sponsor random illegals ? If they never worked for you as an illegal how would you know they have any work ethic or skills that would make you want to go out of your way to help get them a green card ?
It don't add up. 
Now I am just a dumb painter and never was much on thinkin' and such, but I just can't see how this all works out.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

ModernStyle said:


> I am confused. So you don't hire illegals yet you sponsored some illegals for citizenship ?
> Why would you sponsor random illegals ? If they never worked for you as an illegal how would you know they have any work ethic or skills that would make you want to go out of your way to help get them a green card ?
> It don't add up.
> Now I am just a dumb painter and never was much on thinkin' and such, but I just can't see how this all works out.


You can legally work in this country without being a citizen.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

This is all making my brain hurt. 
My cousin is married to a guy who describes himself as Mexican, but now I know that there are no Mexicans, so he is a figment of my imagination. 
This is just like the movie a Beautiful Mind.


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

Well except the guy in the movie was smart and I'm not.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

kookoomouse said:


> There's more to this but this is a serous thread drift And I did not start it! Its you guys. :whistling


Adrift? This is the GD section..... 

IMO, the biggest failures of internet boards is when they try to control the "general discussion" area too much. One post "how do I?" wonders are usually the section of the board where they want to get a quick answer to their only post, then disappear. So all the more specific areas of boards are dead/don't have a lot of traffic.

The GD section is where all real traffic lands. IMO, if you restrict this general discussing, you kill the board. But that's just the unasked-for input from an unemployed generalist.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

jlsconstruction said:


> You can legally work in this country without being a citizen.


Sort of doing the obama parsing/smearing of meaning.
Yes one can work in this country if one is not a citizen of this country.
Come to think of it, someone can purchase a house with government mortgages in this country and not be a citizen of this country.
And come to think of it, up until a few years ago, anyone could get a national ID (usDL) w/o being a citizen.

I guess this is why I talk/type so much as a lot of words, short sentences, or replies don't always give the whole/real answer


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

ModernStyle said:


> Well except the guy in the movie was smart and I'm not.


Was that the guy that played the piano with his feet? (I'm not joking for once).


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## ModernStyle (May 7, 2007)

CO762 said:


> Was that the guy that played the piano with his feet? (I'm not joking for once).


No that was Great Balls of Fire


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## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

One of my best friends lives in port charlotte. Her brother-in-law is a contractor, seen him with lots of Mexicans, not one Cuban... Ever.


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## NortheasternExt (Mar 4, 2013)

Put it this way brother. If its your only way to make ends meat now grab a broom. But try looking for other jobs, i am sure your not worth low wage, hard work.
Keep us up dated.

Joe
______________________

Northeastern Exterminating
Bed Bug Exterminator in Brooklyn 
We knock em dead!


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Update: Second worthless person of three gone. Last one remains. 
FWIW, all three b*tched about what they weren't, but the only thing the three did is walk around jobsited with their earbuds in, listening to their ipods, doing brainless sort of slightly skilled laborer's work....slowly....and not very well....and never cleaned up after themselves, nor anyone else.

Only one remains. Hopefully by the end of this week, he'll be at home during the workday, listening to his music on his couch, telling all his other unemployed friends how underpaid he was and no one ever taught him anything and he didn't make much money..... 

Hopefully the OP is still reading...and other people wanting to get into the trades--it's not our job to give you a paycheck/job. You've gotta wanna. And to those that don't have the gumption, the wanna, don't b*tch if you remain a laborer and/or get canned on friday. Find something that you're more interested in and do that.


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

CO762 said:


> Hey leave them cubanos alone! I learned engrish with the marielitos!
> 
> 
> How do you know that?
> ...


Most of my guys use the same person to file their taxes. That is how I know they pay taxes.


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## Flag ship (Nov 21, 2008)

FSCROB said:


> Most of my guys use the same person to file their taxes. That is how I know they pay taxes.


 I know they pay because I pay them via weekly depositing. They are a trust tax the the gov trust me with. Now subs or ind contractors then yes that diffeent. The above sound like subs to me.


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## FSCROB (Aug 5, 2013)

Flag ship said:


> I know they pay because I pay them via weekly depositing. They are a trust tax the the gov trust me with. Now subs or ind contractors then yes that diffeent. The above sound like subs to me.


Not subs. Employees.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Its very simple, show up early, stay late, and volunteer for the hard stuff.


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## TAHomeRepairs (Jun 18, 2012)

Has OP been back?


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## dom-mas (Nov 26, 2011)

no

now I need to say more stuff so I can reply. hopefully this is enough


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## Imakenice (Jul 9, 2013)

Hey OP

Now the payscale is different in different areas... but I made the same as you, same position as you, 16 years ago.. minimum wage here is now three dollars over what you make.


Personally i'd stay and work for now, but start looking for something better.. check out similar job postings to see if you are selling yourself short..just work hard for now though to get a good reference, and to possibly to move up to better work where you are now with the same employer..


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