# Underground problem



## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

woodchuck2 said:


> Honestly IMO you might better just start over. Too bad the HO put the wire in the ground himself without conduit and only 12" deep. The depth is not code and anyone with some common sense would have used conduit just for this reason. Personally i would just dig the whole thing up and replace the whole line and put it in conduit this time. The HO saving what, $100 for conduit now expects you to find the break, dig it up, splice it and hope it never happens again??? ..............


98% of the faults I find are at the proper depth. Typically the cable was damaged during original installation and the depth makes no difference when it fails. The nick or cut went unnoticed and over time, groundwater creeps in and destroys the conductor.

If the damage is recent, then someone will remember, "Oh, yeah, we planted a tree out back 3 days ago and we lost power to the garage" or "We had that fence built last week........". Well, DUH. It doesn't take Albert Einstien to figure that one out.

I'm glad your customer are willing to pay $3,000+ for a fix that won't solve any future issues when $500 will produce the same result. Trenchers, back-hoes, augers, etc. will go right through your PVC pipe..... Unless you want to add another $2k to put in rigid. And this is assuming a run of less than 100 feet. 

Try explaining to someone who has a couple thousand feet of buried cable that your 'solution' is for them to write out a 5-digit check, while you tear up their landscaping, weave around all the other utilities that are down there, and take a couple weeks............... when all they want is the power on NOW.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

If its really shallow just grab one end of the wire and pull up. :laughing:


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Learning that it's 12" deep.....I think the same, or at least start at one end and follow it while digging.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

tgeb said:


> Learning that it's 12" deep.....I think the same, or at least start at one end and follow it while digging.


Yep, that's what I figure. It's finding the start that's going to be fun.


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

Start at the outlet in the yard and work back...


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

At only 12" deep, I think a good metal detector would have a reasonable chance to locate it. I was actually reading between the lines and thinking it probably wasn't at full depth. :laughing:

GettingBy, please refrain from idiotic suggestions like bypassing breakers. It's not only unnecessary for the stated purpose and totally against code, it's downright dangerous, even for someone who knows what he's doing.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Digging it all up is fine if it's 50 feet or less in length and less than 12" down. But anything more than that, you're money ahead to actually locate it.


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## GettingBy (Aug 19, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> idiotic suggestions


Ad hominem.


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

480sparky said:


> 98% of the faults I find are at the proper depth. Typically the cable was damaged during original installation and the depth makes no difference when it fails. The nick or cut went unnoticed and over time, groundwater creeps in and destroys the conductor.
> 
> If the damage is recent, then someone will remember, "Oh, yeah, we planted a tree out back 3 days ago and we lost power to the garage" or "We had that fence built last week........". Well, DUH. It doesn't take Albert Einstien to figure that one out.
> 
> ...


Obviously my answer is going to vary depending on the length and size of the wire. But to pay someone to come in to find the problem, dig it up, $$ on the splice kit and rebury only to have a potential problem down the road seems like a waste of money to me. Why not put the wire in properly? What did the OP do to cause a break in the wire, drive over it? The HO obviously put the wire in as cheap as possible and now expects the OP to repair a wire that was not installed properly to begin with. This is how i see this anyway. I suppose if you drive over someones improperly installed wire then i guess you may feel obligated to fix it out of your pocket but not me. All wire i install is put in conduit and anywhere it is going to be driven over it will be buried at least 18"-24" deep. Will it survive an assault by heavy equipment, most likely not, but at least i took the time to protect the wire. Most breaks in a wire are as you said, either from installation or for around here frost moving rock/debris around.

IMO this is a perfect example of the HO cutting cost and doing hack work and when there is a problem the cost of repair gets passed on to the guy who just happens to damage the hack work without any knowledge of it being there.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

woodchuck2 said:


> .....Why not put the wire in properly? ........


As I stated..... 98% of the faults I find are at (or below) the proper depth. 



woodchuck2 said:


> .........What did the OP do to cause a break in the wire, drive over it? ...........


Who said the OP caused the problem?



woodchuck2 said:


> .....The HO obviously put the wire in as cheap as possible and now expects the OP to repair a wire that was not installed properly to begin with......


Well, obviously if it's 3" down, the proper recommendation would be to replace it. But seriously..... how many HOs are going to merrily take that route? In the _real world_, I mean, not FantasyLand where everything is perfect.


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## mrmike (Dec 9, 2008)

. 
Quote:
Try explaining to someone who has a couple thousand feet of buried cable that your 'solution' is for them to write out a 5-digit check, while you tear up their landscaping, weave around all the other utilities that are down there, and take a couple weeks............... when all they want is the power on NOW.[/QUOTE]


There isn't any mention of the length of the run which probably isn't that far by the sounds of it, going to one outlet box. Doesn't sound like any big deal & I would also start over if it is a short run......... You don't know the condition of the rest of the wire & it may have some more bad spots ready to short out...........


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

mrmike said:


> There isn't any mention of the length of the run which probably isn't that far by the sounds of it, going to one outlet box. Doesn't sound like any big deal & I would also start over if it is a short run......... You don't know the condition of the rest of the wire & it may have some more bad spots ready to short out...........


Yet everyone is _assuming _it's a 50' run.:whistling


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## woodchuck2 (Feb 27, 2008)

It would be up to the OP to tell us how long the run is, i am merely guessing it is a short run. The OP did say in his 1st post that he did damage the wire but did not say how. I do not know the depth you bury your wire at but here it is required that any unprotected wire be buried at least 36" deep to get below the frost line and wires that are protected in conduit must be buried at least 18" deep. I will admit i do not always follow the 18" depth rule unless it is going to be driven over but i do put all my wiring in conduit regardless.

As far as doing jobs like this, yes, i do them all the time. And when i get done charging the customer for the service call, the digging, the splice and giving no warranty i will remind them just how cheap conduit is to protect the wire. And for me to dig 3' down and 5'-6' long of a hole to work in for a splice, yeah, thats why i bought an excavator. Work smart, not hard.


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