# Need advice giving a quote for framing.



## Jason318 (Sep 5, 2013)

Hello I just started my own construction company after 14 years in the trade. My first build is split entry home, the main part of the home is 28'x38' box with a few cantilevers, a total of 1120sq'. The second part of the home is a 25'6" x 38' three car garage that comes off half the front of the house with 24' x 18'6" master bedroom above with a hip roof returning into the main roof. This makes the floor plan around 1600sq'.
The owner thinks he should only be charged for just the 1600sq' but if I do that it seems I will be framing the garage walls and roof that go beyond the 24' x 18'6" master bedroom above the garage for free as well as the 4' basement pony wall around the main house that my joists will sit on. Also there is a 12' x 16' deck in the back which I don't think should be included in the 1600sq' price as well?

I would appreciate any advice I can get, I'm a strong carpenter when it comes to building, but am pretty novice when it comes to pricing.

cheers Jason

*edit*
the total garage space that the master bedroom sits on is 988sq'


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## Morbidzero (Aug 5, 2013)

Are those floor soft measurements or walls/ceilings daft?


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## Morbidzero (Aug 5, 2013)

Sorry my spell check screw my response up lol

Are those the sqft measurements of the floor or are they the sqft measurements of the walls and ceilings?


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

We do not discuss pricing here. There are too many variables. I will let your post stand for now, in case anyone wants to offer non pricing advice. I have been a framing contractor for 20 years. I do not let others tell me what the job should cost. My advice is to figure out how long it will take your crew, and multiply the number of days times your crew cost per day. Add in a % for profit and you are all set. Framing houses at a per square foot price is a quick ride to the poor house.


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## Jason318 (Sep 5, 2013)

they are floor.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Jason318 said:


> Hello I just started my own construction company after 14 years in the trade. My first build is split entry home, the main part of the home is 28'x38' box with a few cantilevers, a total of 1120sq'. The second part of the home is a 25'6" x 38' three car garage that comes off half the front of the house with 24' x 18'6" master bedroom above with a hip roof returning into the main roof. This makes the floor plan around 1600sq'.
> The market where I live is between $8.50-$10.00sq'. The owner thinks he should only be charged for just the 1600sq' but if I do that it seems I will be framing the garage walls and roof that go beyond the 24' x 18'6" master bedroom above the garage for free as well as the 4' basement pony wall around the main house that my joists will sit on. Also there is a 12' x 16' deck in the back which I don't think should be included in the 1600sq' price as well?
> 
> I would appreciate any advice I can get, I'm a strong carpenter when it comes to building, but am pretty novice when it comes to pricing.
> ...


I know nothing about square foot pricing framing but if you are concerned then break everything down as far as you can and see how the "real" numbers pan out.


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## Morbidzero (Aug 5, 2013)

Or just send me a message so i can help you out as this tread will probably be closed as you are not allowed to ask how much to charge on these forums.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Morbidzero said:


> Or just send me a message so i can help you out as this tread will probably be closed as you are not allowed to ask how much to charge on these forums.


There is nothing wrong with asking how to bid a job, just don't ask what price should I bid it at.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Morbidzero said:


> Or just send me a message so i can help you out as this tread will probably be closed as you are not allowed to ask how much to charge on these forums.


Jason:

You are welcome to do this, but this exemplifies my point. You will be asking pricing information from a drywall contractor who probably does not live anywhere near you. He will also probably know nothing of the codes in your area (which will affect your pricing) as well as the cost of living there.

Tread carefully.


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## Jason318 (Sep 5, 2013)

Warren said:


> We do not discuss pricing here. There are too many variables. I will let your post stand for now, in case anyone wants to offer non pricing advice. I have been a framing contractor for 20 years. I do not let others tell me what the job should cost. My advice is to figure out how long it will take your crew, and multiply the number of days times your crew cost per day. Add in a % for profit and you are all set. Framing houses at a per square foot price is a quick ride to the poor house.


I apologize for that thanks for the heads up and the advice:thumbsup:


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## We Fix Houses (Aug 15, 2007)

you have had to figure by now how many days, crew size, equip allowance / rental --- other hard costs.

Don't forget to add 1 crew day to load the job, meet with client. 1 day you and maybe a helper to clean up and break the job down.

Also profit and overhead...

You're coming up with some sq ft prices ?


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## Jason318 (Sep 5, 2013)

I guess I'm not asking for an exact price or a price but what the pricing should include. He thinks he should only pay for the livable space 1600sq', where as I think I should charge also for the garage below the bedroom since it is 900sq'. When I crunched my numbers I went sq' x $ / 2. I divided by 2 because obviously there is no floor system just a concrete slab.


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## Morbidzero (Aug 5, 2013)

Warren said:


> Jason:
> 
> You are welcome to do this, but this exemplifies my point. You will be asking pricing information from a drywall contractor who probably does not live anywhere near you. He will also probably know nothing of the codes in your area (which will affect your pricing) as well as the cost of living there.
> 
> Tread carefully.


Your assumption is silly to think i would bid the job for him lol. 

I was going to help him with what he should take into account in his bid as what is exactly in his scope of work and how to figure that into his bid, O and P, material, etc. 

Warren before judging me based upon my background maybe you should read some of my past forums post on this very subject.


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## kiteman (Apr 18, 2012)

I do a "square foot-plus" pricing system, where I use a price/ sq ft for floors and walls, another for roof area, (big difference between ranches and 2-stories), a separate sq ft price for garages, lineal ft for walkout/pony walls, and extras. Everything is extra, steps, fireplaces, vaults, slopes, etc. Add for sheathing, tyvek, soffit & fascia. Add margin.

Then I look at the total $/sq ft and adjust to what's comfortable. At least I know everything I have to do, and it's priced consistently.

And what the hell does he need to know how much a foot you're charging, other than the total. The number is the number, no matter how you get there.


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## Morbidzero (Aug 5, 2013)

kiteman said:


> I do a "square foot-plus" pricing system, where I use a price/ sq ft for floors and walls, another for roof area, (big difference between ranches and 2-stories), a separate sq ft price for garages, lineal ft for walkout/pony walls, and extras. Everything is extra, steps, fireplaces, vaults, slopes, etc. Add for sheathing, tyvek, soffit & fascia. Add margin.
> 
> Then I look at the total $/sq ft and adjust to what's comfortable. At least I know everything I have to do, and it's priced consistently.
> 
> And what the hell does he need to know how much a foot you're charging, other than the total. The number is the number, no matter how you get there.


The things is most folks don't do the sq ft method as they can't figure out how to incorporate it properly in a bid or just can't do the math.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Jason:

Way back when, when I was new to the business, I also bid some jobs by the square foot. I had heard some numbers from other subs, contractors, and even lumber salesmen. The square foot numbers I used were for a two story home, with no basement framing, 8' walls, walkable roof, easy peasy. The pricing INCLUDED a 24x24 attached garage. The thinking was that around here a two car garage is a given on every new home. 

I am not saying that you should bid yours that way, just telling you how it used to be here. I then added for ceiling details, tall walls, cathedrals, arches, stick framing, window transoms, walkouts, etc. 

Your best bet is to go the daily crew $ route. Figure your costs per day times the number of days. Add a day of slop plus a profit margin. This is a small house. It will be a great way for you to establish some pricing for future jobs. I keep a history of prior frames and compare future bids to similar homes. Once you have a history of bids, it gets easier.


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Morbidzero said:


> Your assumption is silly to think i would bid the job for him lol.
> 
> I was going to help him with what he should take into account in his bid as what is exactly in his scope of work and how to figure that into his bid, O and P, material, etc.
> 
> Warren before judging me based upon my background maybe you should read some of my past forums post on this very subject.


Dude, you might want to read a few of my THOUSANDS of posts as well. I have never invited someone to PM me to get bid advice and in my mind, neither should someone in a completely different trade.


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## JesseCocozza (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm also a framing contractor. I never do sqft pricing. I've found the my pricing usually falls withing an average sqft price, but I only ever use that number to see if I'm overshooting or under shooting before I submit a bid.

I have a spreadsheet with categories of roof framing, interior wall framing, floor system framing, etc. these all have line items like truss set, sheathing, blocking, etc. like other said. Build the house on paper by making a list from start to finish based on how long you think it will take you to complete each task, add profit, overhead, nails, lift rental, whatever else and that's your number. Easy as that. Your benefit of 14 years is that you should have a really good idea of how long these things should take. That's where you lose money if you don't have a good idea of timeframes.


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## Jason318 (Sep 5, 2013)

Morbidzero said:


> The things is most folks don't do the sq ft method as they can't figure out how to incorporate it properly in a bid or just can't do the math.


that's just it. the roof system alone has 5 valleys and 4 hips which is not overly complicated, but that all takes time. I would have no problem charging just square footage if it was a gable to gable box. Most guys could bring that to lock up in 10 days give or take, but when you get into these split levels there is a lot of detail.


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## Jason318 (Sep 5, 2013)

Warren said:


> Jason:
> 
> Way back when, when I was new to the business, I also bid some jobs by the square foot. I had heard some numbers from other subs, contractors, and even lumber salesmen. The square foot numbers I used were for a two story home, with no basement framing, 8' walls, walkable roof, easy peasy. The pricing INCLUDED a 24x24 attached garage. The thinking was that around here a two car garage is a given on every new home.
> 
> ...


Ok I'm going to give that a try. Basically its just me and 1 employee.


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