# SIP Wall Framing...



## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

We're doing our 1st SIP construction starting Monday....

I've had a decent amount of time to look over the schematics, and I think I have a handle on the construction/layout....

We're drilling holes for wiring chases in splice studs and plates, cutting pannels to use in various corners etc.... The local rep is coming Monday to get us rolling...

Frankly, This is what we're doing, we have the walls, instructions, but no experience.....seems easy enough, so what's the catch??


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## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

Just did our first SIP room addition a couple weeks ago. We used t&g panels with a spline. Our major obstacle was the weight of the panels and getting the tongue & groove to line up. Mostly manhandled the panels as they were being attached to an existing house, not much room for equipment although we did use a telehandler for the roof panels. Still heavy to get them into place. 

Do your specs call for sealant on the groove? Tape the seams? Are you setting the wall on concrete or a SIP floor?


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## HSConstruction (Mar 21, 2009)

Your Electrician will hate it but your sheetrocker will love it.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Long GRK screws.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

HSConstruction said:


> Your Electrician will hate it but your sheetrocker will love it.


That's kinda what I was thinking....

DW, towel bars, wainscotting, etc....that'll be great for us!!

So we have the PRAZI chain attachment for our skil saws.....we cut out window 'x' and use for W2...this is definately going to be interesting.....

Warner: what do you use the long screws for??


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I thought that is how they fastened some forms of those panels.


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## jkfox624 (Jun 20, 2009)

I think i remember seeing them on this old house one time running long ass screws through the roof panels into the top plate and the ridge.


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## 10fingers (Jan 5, 2008)

very pop in Canada,but what's up with those screws? $980 per box!!!!


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

you need a couple of foam guns :thumbsup:
also a modified 7'' angle grinder with a special blade in case you have to
route out some panels for windows and doors


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## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

*SIP Pictures*

Recent room addition built from SIP panels. 6" walls, 8" roof.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Bill Z said:


> Do your specs call for sealant on the groove? Tape the seams? Are you setting the wall on concrete or a SIP floor?


We are using foam sealant everywhere, taping interior panel joints, and we are doing walls ONLY...conventional wood floor system and radiused 2x rafters.

I can see the roof panels being a pain, but four of us moved an 8'x13' wall section like nothing.

I just got the updated 'Cross Section' drawing, and wall schedule...apparently, we're using 8" panel screws to attatch a ledger to our 2nd floor walls that are accepting (shed roof type) rafters.







side note: I'm posting progress pictures of this job...
http://www.contractortalk.com/f14/radius-jig-cutting-2x-rafters-66403/
I'll have SIP pics up by the end of next week.

Also MODS, or anyone, can I revise the title of that thread? or, should I start a new thread and re-post the pictures in the 'carpentry picture thread'? I know everyone likes pictures, so I would appreciate any suggestions....


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## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

Wow , an addition kit ? Whats the advantage over stick framing a 20x20 room addition . 
Is the framing material less money ? less time ? It looks like you still have to finish the windows ,siding, roof ,dry wall , break Thru opening etc. Looks very cool but seams like a lot of planing for one room . 
The framing is the fun part of the job . John


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

I can see the electrical rough in being a PITA for everyone!

I know the designer will spot recepticals and sconces no where near the electrical chases.....I don't know....yet:blink:


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

wellbuilthome said:


> Wow , an addition kit ? Whats the advantage over stick framing a 20x20 room addition .
> Is the framing material less money ? less time ? It looks like you still have to finish the windows ,siding, roof ,dry wall , break Thru opening etc. Looks very cool but seams like a lot of planing for one room .
> The framing is the fun part of the job . John


I'm with you....I'll know soon enough, but, seems to me the main benefit is the thermal envelope/break.....

From the field, with the winters we get here, I'm stoked that as soon as the walls are up, and we get dried in it will be warm inside! No waiting the month or two for the mechanicals before insulation!!!!!


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## Bill Z (Dec 10, 2006)

WNYcarpenter said:


> I can see the electrical rough in being a PITA for everyone!
> 
> I know the designer will spot recepticals and sconces no where near the electrical chases.....I don't know....yet:blink:



Yep, electrical will we a PITA for someone. This is our first SIP wall job and we ran the wire as we went. Saved the electrician a lot of hassle but probably added at least half a day to our install.

We've built tons of rooms with SIP floors over the years, and quite a few roof systems. 

The advantages include 6" thick R-22 walls, 8" thick R-38 roof with an "automatic" cathedral ceiling. The roof panels are heavy, but once they are set so is the sheathing and insulation. Saves a lot of time.

Cost wise, I think I can sell a SIP room addition for about 20% less than a conventionally built room addition. The verdict is still out though as we analyze the pros and cons of each room after completion. 

Besides terrific energy savings, another "green" aspect is the lack of leftovers. It's hard to find a piece big enough for samples. 

If you have the right supplier, SIP construction can be a good way to go.


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## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

How much time can you possibly save on a frame ? 
We built a 20x20 addition on Friday floor 2x10 wall 2x6 rafters 2x10 collar ties 2x6 3/4 ply on the floor 1/2 ply on the roof OSB for the walls . Monday we have collar ties to finish , gable end studs, facials . windows ? 3 men 2 days tops . Insulation costs about 900 buck here installed . Id rather give up the block work then the framing I hit two leach tanks and a old septic on 2 20' walls .  We removed 3 more tanks and replace the septic on the other side of the house . roofing and siding and 2 covered decks and im out a there . My HO is trying to finish it up. :sad: He keeps adding thing for us to do .:thumbup: John


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

Here's a few pics of a wall splice we did today.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

looking good:thumbsup:
typically on a sip house id see warmboard installed


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

A few more....so far, assembly has been straight forward...GLUE EVERYTHING....

We are marking out all the wire chases on the plywood and we're screwing all the outside corners with the 8" screws....My biggest complaint so far is that the panels are only made to the foot....IT IS NOT a panelized system!!! an 8'6" wall comes 9'. I already made a mistake doing pre-assembly on a 9' wall the should have been 8'11"...


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

ah using a hot wire:thumbsup:


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## BattleRidge (Feb 9, 2008)

I just did a massive remodel on a church ceiling because the sips joints didnt get taped and somehow this allowed moisture to get between them. I dunno how. But we taped the seems, reroof it, and redid the sheetrock.


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

wellbuilthome said:


> How much time can you possibly save on a frame ?
> We built a 20x20 addition on Friday floor 2x10 wall 2x6 rafters 2x10 collar ties 2x6 3/4 ply on the floor 1/2 ply on the roof OSB for the walls . Monday we have collar ties to finish , gable end studs, facials . windows ? 3 men 2 days tops . Insulation costs about 900 buck here installed . Id rather give up the block work then the framing I hit two leach tanks and a old septic on 2 20' walls .  We removed 3 more tanks and replace the septic on the other side of the house . roofing and siding and 2 covered decks and im out a there . My HO is trying to finish it up. :sad: He keeps adding thing for us to do .:thumbup: John


How about a 9600sq foot restaurant with a 60' clear span, framed and insulated in 2 weeks?


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

WNYcarpenter said:


> Here's a few pics of a wall splice we did today.


Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a pretty hokey splice. I prefer the system that Premier panel systems uses.
And the panels aren't pre-cut? I'd hate that- the jobs I've done, the panels are all cut to the right size, windows cut out, foam burned out, ect. Just grab the right panel, grind the edges, glue, nail in splines, and hook on the crane. The only time you need to get the burner out is on the last panel in the wall.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

TempestV said:


> Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a pretty hokey splice. I prefer the system that Premier panel systems uses.
> And the panels aren't pre-cut? I'd hate that- the jobs I've done, the panels are all cut to the right size, windows cut out, foam burned out, ect. Just grab the right panel, grind the edges, glue, nail in splines, and hook on the crane. The only time you need to get the burner out is on the last panel in the wall.


The splice picture was before we drove the walls tight....it still seems a little hokey, I agree....


This is our company's 1st experience with SIPs....our PM asked today how we felt...'too many steps'.... The response was that maybe there is a company that does what YOU mention....

Either the SIPcompany we went with is the only manufacturer within 150miles or my company went with the cheapest!...Hell, if everything was cut and ready to go, we would have had our walls up in a day, probably less!

At any rate, I'm sold....They are light and easy to manipulate, trim, etc....we layed out our plates square and straight, so if there was a problem, it wasn't hard to fix.

BUT....this house is 30'x30' with 4 outside corners and 2 inside @90*....really simple!


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## wellbuilthome (Feb 5, 2008)

TempestV said:


> How about a 9600sq foot restaurant with a 60' clear span, framed and insulated in 2 weeks?


 Looks real cool , nice job . I can see the saving in a building like you have on the pics Ive done a lot of modular homes in the 80s but never tried any thing but stick built for additions and add a levels . John


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

...


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## TempestV (Feb 3, 2007)

WNYcarpenter said:


> The splice picture was before we drove the walls tight....it still seems a little hokey, I agree....
> 
> 
> This is our company's 1st experience with SIPs....our PM asked today how we felt...'too many steps'.... The response was that maybe there is a company that does what YOU mention....
> ...


yea, cutting panels on site pretty much eliminates the speed advantage on panels, particularly if it's on a house with lots of little panels. I worked on a panel gym this summer where the walls were all 8x24 panels. Considering that that is the biggest that they can ship, it wouldn't have affected as much to get un cut panels as on the house we did with lots of windows and gable walls. 
However, I think the best thing about precut panels is that you use the burner less! Do you have some sort of special burner to make the groves for the OSB spline?


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

TempestV said:


> yea, cutting panels on site pretty much eliminates the speed advantage on panels, particularly if it's on a house with lots of little panels. I worked on a panel gym this summer where the walls were all 8x24 panels. Considering that that is the biggest that they can ship, it wouldn't have affected as much to get un cut panels as on the house we did with lots of windows and gable walls.
> However, I think the best thing about precut panels is that you use the burner less! Do you have some sort of special burner to make the groves for the OSB spline?


 
We only had 1 OSB spline...because of the point loads we had add 2x.....we also had 3 windows that needed 'fabricated' headers, so they sent us one panel to rip into 3 pieces to fill in the bottom portion of the RO....as well as all 4 corners were cut out of one panel....if that makes sense.........basically, we had a bunch of panels and we cut everything to fit.


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## WNYcarpenter (Mar 2, 2007)

I think SIPs are great if your ready...have the tools, etc...once we found a rythm we rocked! Even with cutting panels...2 guys prepped and installed while the third cut....

Now That I understand, getting the shell up is faster that a panelized system.....and we're insulated better, sooner,.....they're lighter....I'm sold....


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