# Time for a career change. Too many cheap "customers"



## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Just got off the phone with a guy who needed his range hood light socket replaced, light above the sink replaced, a bifold door installed in the kitchen pantry and fix the sliding glass door it's hard to open and close without using two hands.

I told him $200. and the classic line "ok...i'll get back to you" 

This was after I went out and made a whole laundry list of work he wants done on his place. He wanted a lot of stuff done from bathroom remodel to kitchen to living room laminate floor. I guess he thinks that will cost him $500 to do:blink:

I'm so sick of hearing "i'll get back to you" which is keywords I'm not paying that.

What do these people think $hi^ costs? Gas is $4 a gallon milk is almost $5 a gallon and the cost of tools and everything else. Seriously wtf?

I'm 99% sure I am changing careers I can't deal with this anymore. I rather be a 9-5 shlub that punches a time card then go through this. 

I read that the skilled trades are the hardest jobs to fill and yeah I see why because there is no money in it anymore. Everyone is pinching pennies and I refuse to beat up my body, tools and waste my knowledge and skills for pennies.

End of rant.

p.s. The work I do land people tell me you do great work "you are very meticulous" blah blah blah but yet they never tell anyone else.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

If you're any good, find better customers and raise your prices. Do you have a website? Advertise? Buy leads? Act in a professional manner? Not being a d*ck just asking.


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Move on..


Your getting yourself all worked up over $200.00. Why?:blink:


I think there is more going on here than just this....


JMPOV,


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## brickhook (May 8, 2012)

I think everyone on CT feels your pain. I' ve gone to bed a many of nights second guessing myself.

No matter what we do for a living, we are going to have bad days. 

Hang in there, we can't get every job we figure, and we can't expect homeowners to understand, what it's taken us a lifetime to learn. That's why they hire this stuff done.

We can't let a few dead end leads get us down. Keep your head up, the next client you have might be the best client you've ever had! :thumbsup:


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

realelectrician said:


> The work I do land people tell me you do great work "you are very meticulous" blah blah blah but yet they never tell anyone else.


I have a temp worker who is the exact same way. He is very meticulous, he does great work, and when I need for him to figure out the best way to do something that does not have an official SOP, he impresses me every time.

But I don't call him back very often and I will NEVER refer him to anyone else simply because he doesn't seem to understand or accept the fact that sometimes I just need the work to get done as quickly as possible. I find myself in situations where I need to meet a deadline but he wants to make it his art project. 

When it comes down to it, people like good work, but they don't want you in their house for 10 days on a 2-day project. Most times they aren't even interested in what you had to do to make it happen. They just want you to get in, get your money, and get out.
:thumbsup:


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

tedanderson said:


> I have a temp worker who is the exact same way. He is very meticulous, he does great work, and when I need for him to figure out the best way to do something that does not have an official SOP, he impresses me every time.
> 
> But I don't call him back very often and I will NEVER refer him to anyone else simply because he doesn't seem to understand or accept the fact that sometimes I just need the work to get done as quickly as possible. I find myself in situations where I need to meet a deadline but he wants to make it his art project.
> 
> ...



Great post there. sometimes the Mike Holmes approach doesn't appeal to the HO.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Quad Racer said:


> Great post there. sometimes the Mike Holmes approach doesn't appeal to the HO.


The only appeal that Mike Holmes has to customers, is it's free. If they had to pay for the work he shows on the tv show, no way.

Someone on here has a saying, "walking the fine line between precision and perfection." Very true statement.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I learned from that father and son motorcycle building team on reality television that once you reach completion, if you try to perfect it, at the end of the day it will only be different. Essentially it will end up as something other than what you initially created.


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## MikeGC (Dec 6, 2008)

Flip some houses or buy some rentals and work for yourself.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

tedanderson said:


> I have a temp worker who is the exact same way. He is very meticulous, he does great work, and when I need for him to figure out the best way to do something that does not have an official SOP, he impresses me every time.
> 
> But I don't call him back very often and I will NEVER refer him to anyone else simply because he doesn't seem to understand or accept the fact that sometimes I just need the work to get done as quickly as possible. I find myself in situations where I need to meet a deadline but he wants to make it his art project.
> 
> ...


A guy taking 10 days on a 2 day project isn't being meticulous he doesn't know what he is doing. There are lots of guys that are meticulous and fairly quick like myself. You have builders who build custom high end homes that take a long time to complete, and you have other builders that throw **** track homes together with illegal workers done real quick that are low quality. It's all about choosing your market. 

I just seem to be getting lots of cheap ass people lately.

p.s. the jobs the guy wanted me to do for the $200 didn't have anything that would involve me needing to be meticulous. So the discussion of time inside the customers home does not apply here.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Quad Racer said:


> Great post there. sometimes the Mike Holmes approach doesn't appeal to the HO.


Mike Holmes is a fictional show. 99.9% of contractors don't have unlimited budgets and don't get free materials.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

I've been in business long enough to fully understand about Mike Holmes believe me. Just threw it out there as an example.


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## ReubenD (Jun 27, 2014)

Most cheap customers get exactly what they deserve- to be low balled, have the price jacked 2x during the job (due to a "misunderstanding") and shoddy work when it is done. Add to that that the real cheap customers are also the ones that demand perfection and will call you 4x in the next 3 years to complain about the light fixture you installed seeming to use light bulbs faster or some other mythical mystery problem and complain to the BBB even if it is perfect- They are doing you a favor if you are quoting a fair price and they blow you off completely. Good customers pay a fair price and you take care of them - the rest cost you money and you do not need that stress or expense in your life.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

realelectrician said:


> A guy taking 10 days on a 2 day project isn't being meticulous he doesn't know what he is doing.


I'm exaggerating when I say that. As an example, if I need him to run 30 feet of 2" conduit pipe down the wall, in a nasty sub-basement, all he has to do is chop up some strut, screw the pieces to the wall and clamp down the pipe. But he will go through great lengths to make sure that it's 100% level and 100% straight in relation to the other nearby walls.. and then he will make sure that each piece of strut is exactly the same size and all of the tapcon screws are on a straight line together, etc. So at the end of the day when I go back to check his work, I expect that they guy at least has the long straight section of pipe on the wall. But instead he's still fiddling around with the bends while working to make sure that when he cuts a 90 bend in half, he gets 2 perfect 45's to make his offset.

And that's what drives me crazy to the point of pulling my hair out.


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## loneframer (Feb 13, 2009)

jb4211 said:


> The only appeal that Mike Holmes has to customers, is it's free. If they had to pay for the work he shows on the tv show, no way.
> 
> Someone on here has a saying, "walking the fine line between precision and perfection." Very true statement.


Close.lol


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

brickhook said:


> I think everyone on CT feels your pain. I' ve gone to bed a many of nights second guessing myself.
> 
> No matter what we do for a living, we are going to have bad days.
> 
> ...






Now the above is some real sound advice,and very well said.:thumbsup:


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## huggytree (Nov 3, 2013)

you choose your customers....they dont choose you.....if you dont understand this you need to research it!!!

your cheap or you advertise to cheap......your getting price shoppers when you should be getting referrals...95% of my work is referral and repeat....its took about 3 years to get the referrals going, but now they come in daily.

cheap customers are not loyal customers.....they dont make good repeat customers....i also believe cheap people hang w/ cheap people.....so their referrals are garbage 

change your whole business to go after high end...charge more, give perfect service and use better materials....also make a personal connection w/ every customer


i also find cheap customers expect the most....there's just nothing good about being a low end sub


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

realelectrician said:


> Just got off the phone with a guy who needed his range hood light socket replaced, light above the sink replaced, a bifold door installed in the kitchen pantry and fix the sliding glass door it's hard to open and close without using two hands.
> 
> I told him $200. and the classic line "ok...i'll get back to you"
> 
> ...


I'll echo above since everyone here at CT is all in the same general business and have to deal with this, but I do exactly what you do. Don't get discouraged. I used to, and I actually have a large blank on my schedule the next couple weeks so I am going to use that to finish some things personally that I haven't had time for in about a year.

I get those stupid calls all the time and your prices seem right in line with mine from what you said above.

I have cut down considerably the amount of wasted time on bogus, cheap ass customers by putting my service call rates on line.

PM me if you want and I'll send you the link.:thumbsup:


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I didn't read the whole thing but one of the things I learned my first couple years in business, when people say your price is too high, it's just an excuse. Very rarely is price the deciding factor, it means they didn't trust you in whatever shape or form. Present your price correctly and you'll never hear, your price is too high, again.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

KennMacMoragh said:


> Present your price correctly and you'll never hear, your price is too high, again.





Much merit to the above statement.:thumbsup:




As a side note to realelectrician. There is an old saying, " wherever you go,you will take yourself with you".


Your approach / methods may need tweaking .


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## ohiohomedoctor (Dec 26, 2010)

You'd of sold it at $314.42. $200 sounds like you need gas money..


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## Agility (Nov 29, 2013)

You guys fix doors too? I need a new electrician!


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

ohiohomedoctor said:


> You'd of sold it at $314.42. $200 sounds like you need gas money..


I doubt it, the guy was probably a tire kicker from the get-go.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Lots of tightwads here so I don't drive out for free estimates on small projects. That eliminates almost all of them. I charge a trip fee and an hourly rate for repair work. The lowball guys will educate them and they won't kick the tires so hard the next time.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

RangoWA said:


> Lots of tightwads here so I don't drive out for free estimates on small projects. That eliminates almost all of them. I charge a trip fee and an hourly rate for repair work. The lowball guys will educate them and they won't kick the tires so hard the next time.


I found this to be effective too, although I will usually credit back the initial estimate cost if they go through with the job. 

I can usually figure out who is just price shopping and they get the 5 minute this is what I would charge price, I don't lose any sleep over it.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Agility said:


> You guys fix doors too? I need a new electrician!


I have experience in many trades but electrical is my main trade. I do other work when I'm slow with electrical work ...if I want to.

I built a 8x16 shed for a customer that was my last project that ended last friday.


And I told the guy to clean the track and put some oil on it so i wasn't going to do that.

90% of that price was to put up the light fixture and to take down the range hood to replace the light socket in it.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

Some interesting replies here and a few out in left field with assumptions but that happens on every forum:thumbsup:

I met the guy while waiting in line at the deli in the supermarket. The line was long so we were bull****ting about something that involved contractors and I told I was one. He said oh really i need a bunch of stuff done.

This thread wasn't about not getting the job, I don't care about that it happens. This was about what people think the cost of things should be. What did the guy think this work should cost? $75?

I really think that part of this problem is that some people think we make $50+ an hour and that is all of our money to spend freely.

Maybe the dude did the math and said $200? for what 3 hours? that's almost $70 an hour no way...I don't even make that. Seriously lots of people are like this. I even had a lady tell me that in my face once. She said "that's like $50 an hour I don't even make that"

:no:


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## EricBrancard (Jun 8, 2012)

realelectrician said:


> I even had a lady tell me that in my face once. She said "that's like $50 an hour I don't even make that"


I've stated this in another thread as well.....What difference does it make what the customer makes and hour? Does every customer feel like they should make more than us? I didn't get into the business to not make money. When you take the risk of being in business for yourself, it's because there should be a certain payoff.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

I think if someone said that I make more than them I would have no choice but to be insulted. Because I swing a hammer for a living I should be committed to the lower runs on the economic ladder? Are the skills that I possess less important than the ones possessed by the customer?
I don't get it.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

EricBrancard said:


> I've stated this in another thread as well.....What difference does it make what the customer makes and hour? Does every customer feel like they should make more than us? I didn't get into the business to not make money. When you take the risk of being in business for yourself, it's because there should be a certain payoff.


I follow you. I told her just because it comes out to $50 an hour that certainly is not my salary.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

The problem is most HO believes they can pick up the 1-2-3 wiring book at Home Depot for $20 and be an electrician. They also don't see all the hidden cost of running a business, like the fact your cargo van sucks down much more gas then their hybrid car they drive.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> I think if someone said that I make more than them I would have no choice but to be insulted. Because I swing a hammer for a living I should be committed to the lower runs on the economic ladder? Are the skills that I possess less important than the ones possessed by the customer?
> I don't get it.


Sadly the skills we possess are considered less important to a large part of society in my opinion especially these days. Back in the old days in the 50s-70s a man in the trades was respected not really anymore.


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## jb4211 (Jul 13, 2010)

Without us, and those like us, the people we call Home Owners, would be Homeless. There would be no office to work in, no heating and air conditioning, and no beautiful backyard to relax in. We are more important than we give ourselves credit.

I highly respect those in the trades.

I could obviously go on and on, but I'm speaking to the choir right now. But, we need to understand our importance before others will.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

jb4211 said:


> Without us, and those like us, the people we call Home Owners, would be Homeless. There would be no office to work in, no heating and air conditioning, and no beautiful backyard to relax in. We are more important than we give ourselves credit.
> 
> I highly respect those in the trades.
> 
> I could obviously go on and on, but I'm speaking to the choir right now. But, we need to understand our importance before others will.


I certainly know my importance but I can't change the perception some have on contractors. I try not to work with those people anyway but sometimes they are hard to spot.


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## Quad Racer (Jun 2, 2014)

Yeah, I've heard the "I don't even make that" from a HO. I just replied "Well maybe you should ask for a raise". After I explained how things work in the real world they were happy to move forward with the project. Taxes take a huge chunk right off the git. Let alone the insurance and fuel for a box van. If they don't like it, hire someone else and good luck finding another guy.

Don't get down too much about it. It's their problem, not yours. I will say that for the most part my customers get it and are happy to pay my price without even negotiating. Where I'm at there seems to be so few guys doing quality trade work at fair prices it's often like taking candy from a baby. Hang in there, if you're like me, it's is all I know so I have no choice but to take the good with the bad.


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## sailfish27 (Jan 25, 2014)

Forget selling handyman services to men! Sell to woman. They have no idea how long things take or hard they are and they are used to hiring people. They also like building a relationship with contractors for emergency situations. You and I don't worry about the heat going out or water in the basement etc. they do. They want to know they have someone they can always call on. Your selling a service not just a job. 

The guy your trying to sell to can probably do it himself, he's just looking for a chump to do it for cheap. His pride also prohibits him from paying someone 70/hr when he's making less.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

sailfish27 said:


> Forget selling handyman services to men! Sell to woman. They have no idea how long things take or hard they are and they are used to hiring people. They also like building a relationship with contractors for emergency situations. You and I don't worry about the heat going out or water in the basement etc. they do. They want to know they have someone they can always call on. Your selling a service not just a job.
> 
> The guy your trying to sell to can probably do it himself, he's just looking for a chump to do it for cheap. His pride also prohibits him from paying someone 70/hr when he's making less.


Women usually say let me talk it over with my husband when it comes to contractors. The women usually just handle the cosmetic choices in the matter. This guy was retired in his 60s. He is simply too cheap.

I have an idea. If anyone from now on gives me crap about price I will hand them some business cards of really high companies:thumbsup: If this guy was balking at $200 for some electrical work let him hear the prices of the big companies:laughing:

I know Lowry electric charges $75 just to come out and that's not doing any work. To replace a light fixture would be $125 and to change the light socket in the range hood would be a similar price.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

200 bucks? You should have just done it for a 6 pack of beer. Joke about it being very easy and when pressed on the price very routinely say $450.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

realelectrician said:


> Women usually say let me talk it over with my husband when it comes to contractors. The women usually just handle the cosmetic choices in the matter. This guy was retired in his 60s. He is simply too cheap.
> 
> I have an idea. If anyone from now on gives me crap about price I will hand them some business cards of really high companies:thumbsup: If this guy was balking at $200 for some electrical work let him hear the prices of the big companies:laughing:
> 
> I know Lowry electric charges $75 just to come out and that's not doing any work. To replace a light fixture would be $125 and to change the light socket in the range hood would be a similar price.



You looking at it all wrong. You dont compete on price with homeowners. You compete on personality, humor, accomidations, attire, cleanliness, and punctuality. 

Raise your prices, increase you calls, sleep better.


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## realelectrician (Jul 13, 2011)

JBM said:


> 200 bucks? You should have just done it for a 6 pack of beer. Joke about it being very easy and when pressed on the price very routinely say $450.


I work alone so $200 for 3 hours most likely less time is not bad.


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## FRAME2FINISH (Aug 31, 2010)

Yea but it doesn't always happen,


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

i did a kitchen for a guy who is cheap. It was my 2nd job after going on my own this past winter. He ordered the cabinets, and played GC with the rest of it. He knew me from before when i worked for a GC as a project manager. All i did was set the cabinets. Every time something came up, he kept calling me. example was the wiring was messed up from the drywaller. He calls me. I tell him i dont know, i wasnt there, dont know anything about it. Call who ever did the dw, not me. 
Next one was the plumber broke the fitting in the wall while hooking up the sink. He calls me all panicy. "Plumber said you need to come over right away and pull the cabinet" Me- "I cant, the granite is on. All i can do is cut the back out and make a new back, but it will cost $50/hr plus the $65 for the sheet of pre-finished plywood. Time starts from the time i leave here until i leave there and the plywood supplied and all the way over in Newcastle, its gonna take me an hour to get there and back."
"The plumber said he can just cut the back out nice and put it back, i think it will be good enough. Man, why do all the these problems keep happening to me?" me- "you wanted to play GC, this is what i used to deal with daily, on multiple jobs at once. Still wanna play GC?"


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

realelectrician said:


> I work alone so $200 for 3 hours most likely less time is not bad.


That would be under a hundred an hour. How long did it take you from the time you left till the time you came home from looking at this job? Those are real hours too and account for your working hours. 

You really need to double if not triple your prices. It is possible you dont get hired because people think there is something wrong with you and your prices. (too low)


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

I think that making an improper comparison has a lot to do with it. Even though they think that the price is fair, they think that's too much money for one person to collect.

For instance, if you were offered a raffle ticket for $1 and there were 20 tickets being sold to win a $50 prize, you would probably buy it because your odds are 20:1 to win $50. BUT if you knew that one person bought the other 19 tickets, you probably wouldn't buy the last raffle ticket because of the strong likelyhood that the other guy would win. The odds haven't changed yet you don't want to buy that last ticket.

So that's why they don't mind paying thousands of dollars to some big corporate outfit like Sears or Home Depot because they can mentally "justify" it even though the CEO of the company is making millions.


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