# Kicked out of framing job for a while, loooong while



## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Post for two days with routine wobbling about my glory at CL -

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/sks/d/zell-carpenter-construction/6486441694.html

Well instead of customers begging me work for them for more money than I look for I get this sh

"The Department of Labor and Industry has again taken notice of your ads on Craigslist. Our Department, which is the state agency responsible for the licensing and regulation of residential building contractors in the State of Minnesota, has no record of a residential contractor license for you.

State law forbids unlicensed residential contractors from offering (or advertising) services for which a state license is required, as noted in Minn. Stat. § 326B.802. In addition Minn. Stat. § 326B.805 notes requirements for residential contractors and defines who is required to be licensed. 

Chapter 326B of Minnesota Statutes contains the building contractor laws and may be found on the web at < www.revisor.mn.gov >. The Department of Labor & Industry also has licensing information on our web site at; <www.dli.mn.gov > 

Your ad claims that you can do framing also. This is a violation of law! Our Department has NOT told you to put that information in your ad. This is your last warning."

This situation remind me of my remodeling of old big houses where I always expect some diamonds will fall at my head and only dead mouses fall at my head in 15 years or so.
So I guess out of framing for long time. I go try real estate licence for a while and it will be long while. Can be ready for retirement until come back to framing. My complain is - they allow me do framing or trim. For me framing and trim are two parts of same process. It is far easier for me to trim something that I frame. It is not two trades, it is one trade.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

So you've been working without a License, in a State that has mandatory Contractor Licensing, you've been warned REPEATEDLY by the State, and you're surprised that they're FINALLY taking action?

And still you refuse to get Licensed?

Sorry, no pity here. :thumbsup:



Delta


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> So you've been working without a License, in a State that has mandatory Contractor Licensing, you've been warned REPEATEDLY by the State, and you're surprised that they're FINALLY taking action?
> 
> And still you refuse to get Licensed?
> 
> ...


Warned just once, and this is second. 80% of my work is for 2 guys that have GC licence both plus 100% of my work checked by city inspectors. Never did framing without permit in my life.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Wonder what they learn in that 8 hours. I'm educated mathematician with 20 years of framing experience, minimum 8 at high end projects, and guy jump out of 8 hours school and is right away better than me in framing.


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

I gotta ask.


Are you complaining? Or bragging?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

First tink got you do big with orange hair. also two ginormous choes.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

SmallTownGuy said:


> First tink got you do big with orange hair. also two ginormous choes.


Buddy you are missing as fly at sh.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

SmallTownGuy said:


> First tink got you do big with orange hair. also two ginormous choes.





tipitop said:


> Buddy you are missing as fly at sh.


Hah! I got this guys lingo figured out!

Yanked his chain IN HIS language !!!


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

tipitop said:


> Post for two days with routine wobbling about my glory at CL -
> 
> https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/sks/d/zell-carpenter-construction/6486441694.html
> 
> ...


Quoted for posterity before the hack post edits it again.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

How can you afford to start your truck at those rates?

Get licensed, get insured, get a better wage.

Before you get fined:

http://www.remodeling.hw.net/busine...)&he=01df4d2eeee0374975e527c722efd653b630765b







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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Quoted for posterity before the hack post edits it again.


You know that is strange post. Potato is not strong with you?


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## Jay hole (Nov 12, 2013)

Well just because the state shut you down doesn't mean you have to stop posting on CT!!!! I enjoy your threads!!! Have you considered making YouTube videos???


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## natural1 (Aug 30, 2007)

Are you positive it is actually from the department of labor? Seems odd they would an exclamation point. "This is a violation of the law"
Perhaps a competitor effing with you.
Just a thought.
Why not get your license and avoid any trouble.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

natural1 said:


> Are you positive it is actually from the department of labor? Seems odd they would an exclamation point. "This is a violation of the law"
> Perhaps a competitor effing with you.
> Just a thought.
> Why not get your license and avoid any trouble.


Was there talk with them after email. It is them. Will take realtor licence first try sell the houses for a few years and keep trimming.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

You obviously spent some time writing that advertisement. One thing: you say several times "references eligible". That should be "references _available_". :thumbsup:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

That is one wordy ad. Sounds like a compilation of all of his threads here on CT.

I gotta ask Tipi:

Why the different rates?


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

You actually get work from this ad?


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Warren said:


> That is one wordy ad. Sounds like a compilation of all of his threads here on CT.
> 
> I gotta ask Tipi:
> 
> Why the different rates?




Different rates for different risks perhaps?

I pay (licensed, insured, bonded) helpers more than that. License gives legitimacy. Not ability or skill, but legality.

I don't have to look over my shoulder, worrying about a surprise visit from the CCB. 

C'mon Tipi, get legitimate so you can raise your rates. 


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

I just read the ad. SMH


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

kirkdc said:


> I just read the ad. SMH


I read it too. At least I understood the words themselves.

Collectively, however,...... they don't make sentences.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

The pics probably reel in the jobs. :thumbsup:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

I've seen some of you work. It's good.

You say it's an 8 hour class, that basically any mouth-breather can pass. And you are good with math.


So.....What the fvkking problem? Why aren't you licensed?



Delta


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

I just click on the post because Tipi posted. 
Can’t miss it. I like the challenge. 

Tipi, if you are as good as you claim, which I believe you could be talented, go legit. 

Or try to get a job for someone who is legit. 

I suspect you don’t want to be legit. I think there is a reason you stay in Craigslist and try to skirt the edges. 


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

You know, I'd probably hire you as a real employee with paid time off, guaranteed 40 hours a week, for $65,000 a year.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

I'm happy guys my add made so much interest here. Keep in mind that it is its last day after 15 years of living in similar shape at CL. That is why I post it Lol. It will not exist after midnight. Obviously not my choice then DOLaI choice. Tomorrow will big part of it be deleted and in fact it will be new add about me doing trim.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

So you can do trim without a license?


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

Post the new ad link on here tomorrow.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I've seen some of you work. It's good.
> 
> You say it's an 8 hour class, that basically any mouth-breather can pass. And you are good with math.
> 
> ...



Maybe he can’t pass the background check?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Gee, who would have guessed Tipi is a *Unlicensed* CL hack?

CORRECTION


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

tipitop said:


> I'm happy guys my add made so much interest here. Keep in mind that it is its last day after 15 years of living in similar shape at CL. That is why I post it Lol. It will not exist after midnight. Obviously not my choice then DOLaI choice. Tomorrow will big part of it be deleted and in fact it will be new add about me doing trim.



Seriously, and IMO portfolios are real attention getters and speak volumes.


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Zell, it sounds like you could get the license.
Go for it man.

Andy.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Gee, who would have guessed Tipi is a *Unlicensed* CL hack?
> 
> CORRECTION


There are legit guys here that use it, but there are just as many hacks. I found the customers to be IDK, cheap? They sure wouldn't pay $55 @hr they're looking for straight up starvin schmucks for $15-20 

My neighbor hired a carpenter off the bulletin board at the gas station to do a deck for him....i watched out my patio door with binoculars....freakin hilarious....good thing the elevation is only about 24" because it ain't gonna last


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I've seen some of you work. It's good.
> 
> You say it's an 8 hour class, that basically any mouth-breather can pass. And you are good with math.
> 
> ...


Them valleys were scary :laughing:


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

Jaws said:


> Them valleys were scary :laughing:


Forgot about the roof-framing one. 

That scared the chit out of me. 





Delta


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Jaws said:


> Them valleys were scary :laughing:


I'd be interested....can you find it?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Interesting, yes? I've never seen a state licensing system quite like this.

Yeah, California is the most ornery (and the most cheated). This is way different.

http://www.dli.mn.gov/ccld/rbcwho.asp


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Them valleys were scary :laughing:


The chopped up crap where he was throwing sleepers and building up blocking under stud walls was precious too.

And then there is the (in)famous "I do floor leveling for concrete guy" project.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Forgot about the roof-framing one.
> 
> That scared the chit out of me.
> 
> ...


Based on his picture, it looks like he could get a job with the Russian mafia.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

SmallTownGuy said:


> The chopped up crap where he was throwing sleepers and building up blocking under stud walls was precious too.
> 
> And then there is the (in)famous "I do floor leveling for concrete guy" project.


This one?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Big Johnson said:


> This one?


That's one of them. We're viewing the sleepers & blockers pic. 

The "floor leveling" one I had commented it looked like a topo map.

Damnedest thing /I/ ever saw.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

hdavis said:


> IIRC, he had some new little feet running around?
> 
> No way could he be run off by a Craigslister.


It was tongue in cheek.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

"Tongue in cheek"


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

In this thread, it should be_ tonguing cheek_. :laughing:


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> Eric Brancard is an very talented guy. He's working as a PM for a large timber-frame outfit.
> 
> I missed your little spat with him. Must've been interesting. :blink:
> 
> ...


Erich is still building to my knowledge. It is Ethan B who is the project manager for the timber frame company


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## rescraft (Nov 28, 2007)

If Rome was on this site, you'd get run!


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Speaking of Eric,
http://www.connecticutforsale.com/tolland/hebron/home/95-Marjorie-Circle,-Hebron,-CT-06248/G10063489



> *Property Description for 95 Marjorie Circle, Hebron, CT 06248*
> 
> Quality to be built colonial by Landmark Homes of CT LLC. *Eric Brancard* is going to build this classic style colonial with 10 pitch roof and all the trimmings you would expect. Near Hebron center in a pocket neighborhood of fine homes


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Sum ***** would sell tomorrow here. 

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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jaws said:


> Sum ***** would sell tomorrow here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


yup.

Eric is on his game. He also sits on the Hebron Zoning board. republican party board. etc.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

SmallTownGuy said:


> yup.
> 
> Eric is on his game. He also sits on the Hebron Zoning board. republican party board. etc.


We would probably get along good. I'm on a bunch of stuff also, it's always better to be involved and not involved.. I would be on the Republican board but they are too soft for me. LOL

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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Speaking of Eric,
> http://www.connecticutforsale.com/tolland/hebron/home/95-Marjorie-Circle,-Hebron,-CT-06248/G10063489


I’d expect it to be twice that in Connecticut.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Big Johnson said:


> I’d expect it to be twice that in Connecticut.


Same. My starting square foot price is right at about what his selling price is without the land. I guess labor is higher here than there. Who would have thunk it

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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Jaws said:


> Same. My starting square foot price is right at about what his selling price is without the land. I guess labor is higher here than there. Who would have thunk it
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


It was three years ago plus they probably have a lot of illegal labor from Long Island. I hear MS13 pretty much runs the Island now so it’s gotta be overflowing with illegals.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

Big Johnson said:


> It was three years ago plus they probably have a lot of illegal labor from Long Island. I hear MS13 pretty much runs the Island now so it’s gotta be overflowing with illegals.


If it was three years ago i think that was him trying to get a bite. He wasnt doing specs i remember 

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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

Big Johnson said:


> It was three years ago plus they probably have a lot of illegal labor from Long Island. I hear MS13 pretty much runs the Island now so it’s gotta be overflowing with illegals.


Da Fuq?:blink:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Big Johnson said:


> It was three years ago plus they probably have a lot of illegal labor from Long Island. I hear MS13 pretty much runs the Island now so it’s gotta be overflowing with illegals.





Jaws said:


> If it was three years ago i think that was him trying to get a bite. He wasnt doing specs i remember
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


You two just blew my troll all to hell.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tipitop said:


> Here. And per flooring guy words it was properly done. Concrete guy was wrong. And you can see how it look all when is finished.


That just means your flooring guy is an idiot. That is not properly done.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That just means your flooring guy is an idiot. That is not properly done.


I'm still scratching my head looking at that substrate....looks like a big jig saw puzzle


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## Jay hole (Nov 12, 2013)

Irishslave said:


> I'm still scratching my head looking at that substrate....looks like a big jig saw puzzle




I'm pretty sure I would have a meltdown if one of my guys did that.....


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Tinstaafl said:


> You obviously spent some time writing that advertisement. One thing: you say several times "references eligible". That should be "references _available_". :thumbsup:


 I live with a ESL woman and they are all over this place. When I hear something that doesn't sound right and then look up the word I find out it's not wrong but just not what I'm used to hearing.. 



Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> I've seen some of you work. It's good.
> You say it's an 8 hour class, that basically any mouth-breather can pass. And you are good with math.
> So.....What the fvkking problem? Why aren't you licensed?
> Delta


 It cost a lot of money to get a contractors license here. It is also hard to qualify.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> That just means your flooring guy is an idiot. That is not properly done.


Man when you say so must be true.


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## Seven-Delta-FortyOne (Mar 5, 2011)

It's like this. Only......Not.

And made of plywood. :blink:





Delta


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

I think back to the era of my dad being in biz, to when I took off on my own in 80's. 

I fought a lot of low bids, because my work was buried, and they couldn't see it. They'd rather stick that money in things they could see, like carpets, drapes, and landscaping. 

At my age, I'd like to put my money on the framer, to build things properly that are covered up, can't see, understand. 

Even my inexperienced eye, will find/catch faults in the finish. 

I can catch some burps in finish, but have no clue as to if it were framed properly. 

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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Thinking little dipper in situation my position at market is build thanks to my well rounded skills framing-trim. As I wrote before I tried to expand to cabinetmaking but didn't like or failed whatsoever you want to call it. Now 2/3 of my skills are gone. I said before I want to expand to realty and realtor licence. But I planned to do it standing at my well rounded and market approved skills not at a remain of my skills. Well will see how it will work. Now add is install doors, crown and trim stairs. What customers can think about it. Can start advertising I do casing of doors but not of windows.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Why would you not do windows?

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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

^^^ Just joke. They can restrict my movement at job site without licence for it too.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

VinylHanger said:


> Why would you not do windows?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


If you follow the link I posted earlier, you'd see that trade work is very finely divided in MN.

And you can do only one trade. More than one requires licensing.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> It's like this. Only......Not.
> 
> And made of plywood. :blink:
> Delta




That stone work in Cusco Peru is just beyond explanation - and beautiful.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Warren said:


> That is one wordy ad. Sounds like a compilation of all of his threads here on CT.
> 
> I gotta ask Tipi:
> 
> Why the different rates?


I get called routinely too do difficult part of job and rest done by someone else. More then 1/2 of calls are such. If I do all job I charge lower.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:


> It's like this. Only......Not.
> And made of plywood. :blink:
> Delta


From some reason everyone who saw it live was staring in it with most stupid face imaginable for a couple minutes. TBH all what I did is level floor to given reference point with 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 playwood and I do not see nothing special in it. I do not know why is so damaging to brain of rest of planet.


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

tipitop said:


> I get called routinely too do difficult part of job and rest done by someone else. More then 1/2 of calls are such. If I do all job I charge lower.


If you charged a more normal rate, would you still get the difficult parts of those jobs?


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tipitop said:


> Man when you say so must be true.


Considering I specialize in flooring and belong to several flooring organizations, it's not me saying it, it's the flooring industry. It is never done that way. It's not productive or very accurate. Plywood, self leveler and go. We mark the high and lows spots on the floor with a Bosch GSL2 floor laser.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

This thread is hilarious


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

How deep can the self leveler go?


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Considering I specialize in flooring and belong to several flooring organizations, it's not me saying it, it's the flooring industry. It is never done that way. It's not productive or very accurate. Plywood, self leveler and go. We mark the high and lows spots on the floor with a Bosch GSL2 floor laser.


Don't try to present a concept like "industry standards" I don't believe he is aware that such a thing exists and moreover, judging from his posts he might have difficulty spelling it. 

He should go into real estate....Sunday afternoon open house would be perfect for him


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

SmallTownGuy said:


> If you follow the link I posted earlier, you'd see that trade work is very finely divided in MN.
> 
> And you can do only one trade. More than one requires licensing.


I did. I was wondering why he doesn't trim windows.

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## B.Johnson (Sep 17, 2016)

Tipi - If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious how you ended up in Minnesota. I just can't picture myself living in Croatia and saying to myself "I think that I'll move to Minnesota"


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Considering I specialize in flooring and belong to several flooring organizations, it's not me saying it, it's the flooring industry. It is never done that way. It's not productive or very accurate. Plywood, self leveler and go. We mark the high and lows spots on the floor with a Bosch GSL2 floor laser.


Well that is valid then. I did that because some manager from company that install and sell it, some big national company, said so to do. Concrete guy show up and destroy my work and did his and than installer, not manager of that big company show up and said that my playwood was ok but not necessery as he can go with mass to 1 1/2". Other guy said I do not know what "industry standard" mean and I think it is unhinged as I just finished that big project all alone.
I come here because here is better money and in 97. Croatia wasn't part of EU. It do not make any sense for me to go to Germany etc at my age and learn theirs techniks in building houses.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Irishslave said:


> He should go into real estate....Sunday afternoon open house would be perfect for him


Well my portfolio is well represented here. If you think it is crap is up to you. I think it is very good stuff and customers think too. I offer a dose times here to call Hans Hagen homes to see if I did that roof at town house with irregular hips an cathedral ceiling. And went to every new crew to explain how it should be done as it is done over 20 times. It do not worth any more as that company is sold. But you can call Chris Jordan from Choice wood that is still always there, coowner of company and ask what he think about Zell. I offer here countless time that someone show up at that big project in St Paul. Feel free to think what you want, market show where is my place and if my skills are good.
I do understand where you come from and I remember time when it was who can talk better about his skills. Today is time of internet and portfolios speaks. Sou you and alike can call me hack how much you want my portfolio will stand there. Unless MN DoLaI find reason to shut it down too.
I notice here a lot time I want go in real estate like a step to development.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

B.Johnson said:


> Tipi - If you don't mind me asking, I'm curious how you ended up in Minnesota. I just can't picture myself living in Croatia and saying to myself "I think that I'll move to Minnesota"


I’m guessing it was some wang dang sweet poon tang which brought him to MN. Only a guess. :jester:


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

.......Sure........


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## tang (Jan 5, 2009)

Big Johnson said:


> I’m guessing it was some wang dang sweet poon tang which brought him to MN. Only a guess. :jester:


 That must be why he claims to do trim!... but not windows.


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## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Holy crap, my head hurts now. 

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## Randy Bush (Mar 7, 2011)

Amazing this post has gone on for 6 pages.:blink:


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## B.Johnson (Sep 17, 2016)

Big Johnson said:


> I’m guessing it was some wang dang sweet poon tang which brought him to MN. Only a guess. :jester:


I looked it up on a world map. Croatia and Minneapolis MN are at the same Latitude. It makes more sense now. I pictured him moving from an area comparable to weather in the Carolina's to MN and couldn't wrap my head around it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tipitop said:


> Well that is valid then. I did that because some manager from company that install and sell it, some big national company, said so to do. Concrete guy show up and destroy my work and did his and than installer, not manager of that big company show up and said that my playwood was ok but not necessery as he can go with mass to 1 1/2". Other guy said I do not know what "industry standard" mean and I think it is unhinged as I just finished that big project all alone.
> I come here because here is better money and in 97. Croatia wasn't part of EU. It do not make any sense for me to go to Germany etc at my age and learn theirs techniks in building houses.


Fair enough!


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Randy Bush said:


> Amazing this post has gone on for 6 pages.:blink:


It's a Tipi thread...it will go on for many more!


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## Jay hole (Nov 12, 2013)

Am I the only one who thinks it would be good to have Tipi on your side in a bar fight???


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Jay hole said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it would be good to have Tipi on your side in a bar fight???


Quite possibly you are.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

I think maybe it means tippy and not tipi (teepee). As in tippy-top ?


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> It's a Tipi thread...it will go on for many more!


It like a dam train wreck,,, I just gotta look,, I hold off as long as I can but in time I have to look:laughing:


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Dirtywhiteboy said:


> It like a dam train wreck,,, I just gotta look,, I hold off as long as I can but in time I have to look:laughing:


:thumbsup: train wreck - same thing I was thinking.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

I did not know Tipi was from eastern Europe. They do things a little different over there many time it's whatever to get by. 

I knew some plumbers from Bosnia who were asking "what is all this with vents here in the US?"...."we don't have any vents in Bosnia". Really? I thought....wow


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Irishslave said:


> I did not know Tipi was from eastern Europe. They do things a little different over there many time it's whatever to get by.
> 
> I knew some plumbers from Bosnia who were asking "what is all this with vents here in the US?"...."we don't have any vents in Bosnia". Really? I thought....wow


Nikola Tesla was a Serb-Croatian. Just saying...


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## Lunicy (Dec 24, 2004)

Jay hole said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it would be good to have Tipi on your side in a bar fight???


Nope. Alot of eastern Europeans just north of me... Them guys can scrap.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Nikola Tesla was a Serb-Croatian. Just saying...


And, was virtually incapable of self-care in a free culture. For all he had to offer, he threw away his own wealth, essentially stole from Morgan and was sued for rent at the end.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

^^^ He come from than Austro-Hungarian republic. It was a capitalistic country than. It is his special case that he wasn't capable to get care about money. He was a Serb born in Croatia.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

tipitop said:


> ^^^ He come from than Austro-Hungarian republic. It was a capitalistic country than. It is his special case that he wasn't capable to get care about money. He was a Serb born in Croatia.


Sure, but he was raised Orthodox, which is materially Communism.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

^^^ IMO it is a lot true in it. But we could talk about it for days and I can be wrong to. Especially with my English. From my life experience Madison Grant and other early 20 centuries eugenics explain everything as is related to economy. I do not think religion, rather race is key for high standard. 
As communism/socialism is in question it simply show up where poor and incapable people make most of population. In Venezuela for example native outbreed Europeans.
Problem with Orthodoxy and it is noticed even by some Serbs writers, for example Dobrica Cosic, that do not encourage people to go in trades and other productive disciplines. It is not that Orthodoxy support communism they do not support productive work and than you must take from someone else and that equal communism . Max Weber is guy who you want read about religion and economy relationship. For ex Max Weber wrote about Catholic order of St Francis as very productive and trade supportive and it is well proved down in Balkans.


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## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Lucid...


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

Quite insightful. It's a pleasure to hear the honest perspective of on an Eastern European.



tipitop said:


> As communism/socialism is in question it simply show up where poor and incapable people make most of population.


I agree. I'd just add that "poor" is a state that results by refusing to create value through applied labor. 

And, being incapable is typically the result of being insulated from responsibility and higher demands. 

Good stuff.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

^^^ I had opportunity to live in a couple systems (communism/capitalism) and a couple system of values. And was in touch with Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Islam all life, and even today I'm in contact with people of all 3 religion from there. So you guys here have a set system of values that is in work for century and that is not case where I'm from and me and other people from there see things far deeper then you.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

hdavis said:


> Lucid...


I concur. tipi talk is a choice.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

tipitop said:


> ^^^ I had opportunity to live in a couple systems (communism/capitalism) and a couple system of values. And was in touch with Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Islam all life, and even today I'm in contact with people of all 3 religion from there. So you guys here have a set system of values that is in work for century and that is not case where I'm from and me and other people from there see things far deeper then you.


There's something to what you're saying. Americans will certainly tend toward bumper sticker philosophies, outlooks. However, folks from EE countries, in my limited experience, seem to be similar in that they simply repeat whatever is catchy. . . But, what's catchy to them is certainly more thoughtful than what an average American might be exposed to. 

You'll notice in your post a subtle allusion to the concept of collective mind: whether American values are a couple centuries in practice or a millennium in practice has no bearing on the individual unless they have access to some bogeyman, the collective mind.


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## Dirtywhiteboy (Oct 15, 2010)

Lunicy said:


> Nope. Alot of eastern Europeans just north of me... Them guys can scrap.


He comes from a hard part of the world. The locals here that mess with most whites find out they don't mess with those guys.. 


SmallTownGuy said:


> I concur. tipi talk is a choice.


He speaks English. I don't have a problem but then I don't live in white America.


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Gee, who would have guessed Tipi is a *Unlicensed* CL hack?
> 
> CORRECTION


Lol man go out of his way to bold, underline and red word unlicensed. This is why I visit this forum. Wonder how much of education you have? Like 3 years of elementary and 8 hours of licencing school?


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

Irishslave said:


> You actually get work from this ad?


I actually get work from photos. Every single customer say so.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

tipitop said:


> Lol man go out of his way to bold, underline and red word unlicensed. This is why I visit this forum. Wonder how much of education you have? Like 3 years of elementary and 8 hours of licencing school?


Nope, I completed High School did some college and figured it wasn't for me. I worked for a few contractors over the next couple of summers while working at several different retailers. I then landed a job at the new Sears Hardware in town. After less than a year I was promoted Dept Manager becoming the youngest manager in Sear Hardware history. At 19 (23 years ago) I was co managing one of the busiest stores in the region. I was making $32K a year plus bonus while most of my friends that were getting out of college were making about $25K.

After that I went over to Home Depot. Worked there for nearly two years and went from pushing carts in the lot (the only job opening they had when I applied) to being a Dept Manager (asst. store manager) in less than 9 months.

After nearly 2 years I saw the writing on the wall and with a family on the way decided to get a salaried desk job. Without a college degree it wasn't going to be easy. I landed a job through a temp agency with a tech company and in less than two years was being flown all over the country to train our client's corporate level one troubleshooting teams (GAP, Disney, LL Bean..) and working with the our developers and engineers to resolve hardware problems on trouble equipment in the field. After 5 years of that, I finally hit the ceiling without a degree. People I hired were becoming my managers. So I decided to go into business for myself.

While searching for the right sector for me I moonlighted as a marketing/graphic artist. One of my clients owned a low voltage electrical contracting company. To supplement income I would work for him a few days a week. It worked out so well he offered me a stake in the company. For nearly 6 years we took a two man operation to a 12 man operation covering most of the Chicago area. We had 5 vans running and handled all of Circuit Cities Home Theater and TV installations. We had clients like Wrigley Field, Murphy's Bleechers and took care of many of the Chicago White Sox Staff and team as well as many of the Chicago Fire players and staff.

After not agreeing with the way my partner was running the company and with the looming housing crash I had him buy me out and I started Tried and True Services with my brother. 9 years later I have 2 employees (bringing on a third) and clear nearly a million in sales a year. I know that's not much but for a small outfit, but it's not to shabby. We are planning on buying our first investment property this year.

I am fully LICENSED and insured and don't have to advertise on CL to get clients to pay me top dollar. Most of the homes we work on are over $450k. I work 90% in my home town and my commute is rarely more than 10 minutes. So yeah, I underlined UNLICENSED as without it you are part of the problem in our industry. Play by the rules before crying about your problems you created by not playing by them.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

^^^ He's got a dang good point.  ^^^

We got illegals in CO putting the good and honest LEGAL guys out of work. It really creates a lot of hatred when dishonest people steal away American businesses and jobs.

But how do you stop it when the government hands out massive freebies to illegals? Maybe we need vigilantes and some rope.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

TNTSERVICES said:


> So yeah, I underlined UNLICENSED as without it you are part of the problem in our industry.


I disagree. The problem is the pro-licensing crowd and inept consumers. You, and the vast majority of Americans, can't hack the competition launched by "the Mexicans." Rather than altering your behavior, altering your work ethic to compete with them, you glorify the oppressive licensing schemes. You hate freedom because you can't cope with it against hardcore guys-- You're the snowflakes of building trades using licensing to construct a safe space. 

Then, you incompetents get together and convince citizens incompetent at the practice of living that they need to be protected by government. 

Yeah; he's a CL hack, but someone wanted his service, so get your nose out of their business, comrade.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

You are clueless. And it's my guess YOU are probably an illegal hack as well.



Add 'em said:


> I disagree. The problem is the pro-licensing crowd and inept consumers. You, and the vast majority of Americans, can't hack the competition launched by "the Mexicans." Rather than altering your behavior, altering your work ethic to compete with them, you glorify the oppressive licensing schemes. You hate freedom because you can't cope with it against hardcore guys-- You're the snowflakes of building trades using licensing to construct a safe space.
> 
> Then, you incompetents get together and convince citizens incompetent at the practice of living that they need to be protected by government.
> 
> Yeah; he's a CL hack, but someone wanted his service, so get your nose out of their business, comrade.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

kirkdc said:


> You are clueless. And it's my guess YOU are probably an illegal hack as well.


That's all you got. However, even the regulation loving Obama administration came out with a report on the oppression created by this theft of liberty. 

And, no. I am licensed. I jumped through the hoops built by my lazy, incompetent countrymen. I wouldn't be so passionate about the subject if I didn't know what a crime it is.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

Add 'em said:


> That's all you got. However, even the regulation loving Obama administration came out with a report on the oppression created by this theft of liberty.
> 
> And, no. I am licensed. I jumped through the hoops built by my lazy, incompetent countrymen. I wouldn't be so passionate about the subject if I didn't know what a crime it is.


Is that all I got? No.

But that's all the time I'll waste on your drivel. Later, junior.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

kirkdc said:


> Is that all I got? No.
> 
> But that's all the time I'll waste on your drivel. Later, junior.


See ya, snowflake.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

kirkdc said:


> You are clueless. And it's my guess YOU are probably an illegal hack as well.


Now, now. No need to be casting nasturtiums. In some ways, this is similar to the pricing threads we all love to hate.

It's all about context. While I agree that in states that require licensing, that's what you ought to be doing, I disagree with the concept across the board. My state of PA has no contractor, electrical or plumbing licensing, yet I've never seen any statistics proving that the work done here is inferior to that done in the places that do. Nor is there a higher rate of scamming/dishonest practices.

We are required to get permits for our jobs. Permitted jobs require inspections, and those inspections ensure that the work meets minimum standards. Licensing alone doesn't do that--only the same permitting and inspections does.

So where's the ultimate logic that being licensed ensures quality work?


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Tinstaafl said:


> Now, now. No need to be casting nasturtiums. In some ways, this is similar to the pricing threads we all love to hate.
> 
> It's all about context. While I agree that in states that require licensing, that's what you ought to be doing, I disagree with the concept across the board. My state of PA has no contractor, electrical or plumbing licensing, yet I've never seen any statistics proving that the work done here is inferior to that done in the places that do. Nor is there a higher rate of scamming/dishonest practices.
> 
> ...


I'm with Tin on this.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

:laughing:


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Tinstaafl said:


> Now, now. No need to be casting nasturtiums. In some ways, this is similar to the pricing threads we all love to hate.
> 
> It's all about context. While I agree that in states that require licensing, that's what you ought to be doing, I disagree with the concept across the board. My state of PA has no contractor, electrical or plumbing licensing, yet I've never seen any statistics proving that the work done here is inferior to that done in the places that do. Nor is there a higher rate of scamming/dishonest practices.
> 
> ...


Plumbing electrical and HVAC are really hard to get licensed for in MI. Takes 8 years each and that’s if you do everything by the book beginning to end. Every one of those types of contractors I’ve hired over the years have been hacks.


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## 91782 (Sep 6, 2012)

Big Johnson said:


> Plumbing electrical and HVAC are really hard to get licensed for in MI. Takes 8 years each and that’s if you do everything by the book beginning to end. Every one of those types of contractors I’ve hired over the years have been hacks.


Maybe its where you are at.

I've always said I've been blessed by having some of the best skilled trades on the planet.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

There are scammers and hacks in every profession. Every profession. There are tons of mediocre in every profession. Then there are those who excel in every profession. It is up to each individual in my opinion to determine who is who.


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

SmallTownGuy said:


> Maybe its where you are at.
> 
> I've always said I've been blessed by having some of the best skilled trades on the planet.


Maybe. Or maybe my expectations are too high.


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## artisanstone (Nov 27, 2007)

Add 'em said:


> The ripping people off, the theft of liberty, is achieved when a supporter of license schemes joins with government to impose their will on two other parties: an independent, unlicensed contractor and a consumer of that contractor's services.
> 
> Honestly, I can appreciate that once you're on the side of the protected class, the licensees, that you want to hang on to it. But, what startles me is that you assert bold faced lies, claiming that you're something other than a form of welfare recipient. I mean, you're authentic criminals pretending to be saints. It's disturbing.
> 
> ...


Interesting, and not without basis. However, there is no way you can object in that way to a system and maintain moral superiority, while at the same time you receive benefit from said system. 

Are you willing to go without roads, electric power, modern communication?

If you want to object and benefit at the same time, then you're just an outlaw. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

Irishslave said:


> I could go on but your slavery to the system is already there by design and there ain't a f***ing thing you can do about it.


That's where you're wrong. We have the right and obligation to determine the manner in which we're governed. If what you were saying were true, the Obamacare mandate wouldn't have been sunsetted. We do make a difference; we determine if we're oppressed or if we're relatively free.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Add 'em said:


> That's where you're wrong. We have the right and obligation to determine the manner in which we're governed. If what you were saying were true, the Obamacare mandate wouldn't have been sunsetted. We do make a difference; we determine if we're oppressed or if we're relatively free.


Boy you're stupider than I thought you were. Besides talking out of both sides of your mouth you site an example that hasn't been entirely vetted yet. Do you have a copy of the 2018 1040 instructions? My guess is the mandate has been tweaked not entirely removed as it's part of the IRC. Things don't get removed from the IRC that easy.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Add 'em said:


> The ripping people off, the theft of liberty, is achieved when a supporter of license schemes joins with government to impose their will on two other parties: an independent, unlicensed contractor and a consumer of that contractor's services.
> 
> Honestly, I can appreciate that once you're on the side of the protected class, the licensees, that you want to hang on to it. But, what startles me is that you assert bold faced lies, claiming that you're something other than a form of welfare recipient. I mean, you're authentic criminals pretending to be saints. It's disturbing.
> 
> ...


Says the guy with a license... get out of here. You my friend are a joke. You support the trading of liberty by having a license. Until you drop it you are nothing but a mouth piece. No balls and all talk. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Add 'em said:


> That's where you're wrong. We have the right and obligation to determine the manner in which we're governed. If what you were saying were true, the Obamacare mandate wouldn't have been sunsetted. We do make a difference; we determine if we're oppressed or if we're relatively free.


You aren't even American. What is this we chit?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Add 'em said:


> Works? I don't understand what that means in this context. It sounds an awful lot like "an economy that works for everyone" sort of tripe.
> 
> If a contractor and a consumer wish to enter into an agreement for services, it is none of your business. The details of the contract are none of your business. The contractor's credentials are none of your business. The consumer's motives are none of your business.


Then simply explain why are you are licensed?




Add 'em said:


> However, because you're a communist, just like all communists do, you make a claim on that private transaction, essentially declaring that there's a "public interest." But, the only right that you have in that instance is the right of might. And that, fundamentally, is why you can't offer a challenge to the question: what right do you have to regulate their transaction? You can't admit that you're a thug though all the evidence is there.


I've been called many things over the years, but never once a communist... first for everything... :laughing:

So out of the thousands of people I've interacted with over my lifetime, are they that stupid or are you that smart?

That inanity aside, to answer your question, I don't have any right to regulate their transaction, and am not the one regulating it nor interjecting ... Like every person alive in any country, you are subject to the laws of the land... 

When you're NOT licensed anymore and still operate your business outside the laws of your land (not sure if you're in the US or not - there seems to be some question you can clear up), while simultaneously informing your customers, giving them the choice between someone who is licensed and isn't. _*then *_you might have a leg to stand on... until then...

...not so much... :no:


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

artisanstone said:


> However, there is no way you can object in that way to a system and maintain moral superiority, while at the same time you receive benefit from said system.


I don't need moral superiority. None of us do. There's no rule that says you've got to be a saint in order to vote or to effect change that you deem morally correct. 

In regard to the rest of your post, we don't need to fight everything at once. We pick a fight that can be won. That's it. 

I don't need to be knowledgeable about the road system or medical licensing to advance opposition to occupational licensing. 

You see, you guys are just that deep in the indoctrination. Who told you that you've got to be a master of everything to make an educated decision on one matter? Who told you that you have to be perfect before you could participate in self-rule?





Irishslave said:


> Do you have a copy of the 2018 1040 instructions?


That's why I said "sunsetted." The deal was that 2018 is the last year for it. 



TNTSERVICES said:


> You aren't even American. What is this we chit?


That TNT stands for Trailer iN Tucky, doesn't it? I don't know what you're talking about (again). I'm American.


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

KAP said:


> So out of the thousands of people I've interacted with over my lifetime, are they that stupid or are you that smart


I think the vast majority of Americans are communists, so I'd say that the most likely explanation is that you've been interacting with fellow collectivists all your life, so your associates wouldn't notice that you were just one of the group.


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

KAP said:


> Then simply explain why are you are licensed?


I was beginning to lose interest in this thread until you asked that simple question. Let's see if we can get a concise coherent answer.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Add 'em said:


> I think the vast majority of Americans are communists, so I'd say that the most likely explanation is that you've been interacting with fellow collectivists all your life, so your associates wouldn't notice that you were just one of the group.


Is that what you think... :laughing:

Maybe, but like I said, when you're out of the glass house and give up your license to operate outside the law and inform your clients of the same to give them the choice, then... :whistling

Until then... you have no plans to do so correct?... 

You might be better off recognizing the limits of working within a system until the changes you seek are realized and not equating that with agreeing with the system in the first place...


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Irishslave said:


> I was beginning to lose interest in this thread until you asked that simple question. Let's see if we can get a concise coherent answer.


I wouldn't hold out hope on that one... I think he's had opportunity to do so, but any answer affirming he's acquiescing to "the system" by even having a license will just paint him as a "communist" as he's defined it... :whistling

But I guess we'll see... :thumbsup:


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

OK Add man help me understand something here. I can just be an unlicensed bootlegger struggling with dogchit accounts but if I decide to improve my revenue stream by going legit that makes me a communist? Capitalist yes...but I'm having trouble seeing the communist part. 

Maybe you should spend some time in a communist country and ask the carpenters there to explain their plight


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## Big Johnson (Jun 2, 2017)

Add 'em said:


> The ripping people off, the theft of liberty, is achieved when a supporter of license schemes joins with government to impose their will on two other parties: an independent, unlicensed contractor and a consumer of that contractor's services.
> 
> Honestly, I can appreciate that once you're on the side of the protected class, the licensees, that you want to hang on to it. But, what startles me is that you assert bold faced lies, claiming that you're something other than a form of welfare recipient. I mean, you're authentic criminals pretending to be saints. It's disturbing.
> 
> ...


...


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

took me 3 glasses of wine to catch up on the 5 pages of posts that have accumulated in the last 2 days. 

I'm going to challenge myself to use the word communist in conversation twice this week. City inspector is coming tomorrow for a rough-in inspection, maybe that will be the first opportunity.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

AustinDB said:


> took me 3 glasses of wine to catch up on the 5 pages of posts that have accumulated in the last 2 days.
> 
> I'm going to challenge myself to use the word communist in conversation twice this week. City inspector is coming tomorrow for a rough-in inspection, maybe that will be the first opportunity.


If its Wallace no dice. Hes legit lol

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Irishslave (Jun 20, 2010)

Briefest definition I could find...........

Economic and social system in which all (or nearly all) property and resources are collectively owned by a classless society and not by individual citizens. Based on the 1848 publication 'Communist Manifesto' by two German political philosophers, Karl Marx (1818-1883) and his close associate Friedrich Engels (1820-1895), it envisaged common ownership of all land and capital and withering away of the coercive power of the state. In such a society, social relations were to be regulated on the fairest of all principles: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Differences between manual and intellectual labor and between rural and urban life were to disappear, opening up the way for unlimited development of human potential.


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## AustinDB (Sep 11, 2006)

Jaws said:


> If its Wallace no dice. Hes legit lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Yep...maybe I'll show up with some donuts. Every man has a weakness :whistling


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## Add 'em (Jan 19, 2015)

Irishslave said:


> Briefest definition I could find...........
> 
> Economic and social system in which all (or nearly all) property and resources are collectively owned by a classless society and not by individual citizens. Based on the 1848 publication 'Communist Manifesto' by two German political philosophers, Karl Marx (1818-1883) and his close associate Friedrich Engels (1820-1895), it envisaged common ownership of all land and capital and withering away of the coercive power of the state. In such a society, social relations were to be regulated on the fairest of all principles: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Differences between manual and intellectual labor and between rural and urban life were to disappear, opening up the way for unlimited development of human potential.


Pretty good. Control is ownership. So, when you use the government to assert control over an industry and its members, you're asserting ownership, common ownership. . . communism.

And, your excuse for asserting this ownership is that someone is in need, whether that be the consumer or the contractor. They, in this case, are from whom/to whom according to their ability.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

Add 'em said:


> Pretty good. Control is ownership. So, when you use the government to assert control over an industry and its members, you're asserting ownership, common ownership. . . communism.
> 
> And, your excuse for asserting this ownership is that someone is in need, whether that be the consumer or the contractor. They, in this case, are from whom/to whom according to their ability.


Uhm... 



KAP said:


> *Then simply explain why are you are licensed?*




Irishslave said:


> I was beginning to lose interest in this thread *until you asked that simple question. Let's see if we can get a concise coherent answer.*





KAP said:


> *I wouldn't hold out hope on that one*... I think *he's had opportunity to do so*, but any answer affirming he's acquiescing to "the system" by even having a license will just paint him as a "communist" as he's defined it... :whistling
> 
> *But I guess we'll see*... :thumbsup:



Well, there you go... no answer forthcoming, but the night is young... :thumbsup:


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## tipitop (Dec 3, 2013)

^^^ Man went to drink a few beers. Will answer tomorrow when he get time. I go drink a few from my own.


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