# Whitney Table Saw



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Just acquired myself one of these here Whitney saws. 

It also happened to be a sliding/rolling table version too.

Hard to find these anymore, most were captured and forced to live in a barn in NJ. 

This one came from part of the Batesville Casket Co.

I got it home and gave it a good look over and here is what I have found.


List of issues that need attention:

1. Motor is a Woods, 5hp, 2 Phase according to the name plate, pulled out end of motor leads and there are 12 wires. Seems it was rewound, Smitty did not recall that area ever having 2 phase power, saw was in use 8 years ago.

2. No starter, not a big deal.

3. Probably missing two of the inside table rollers and the other two inside ones are stuck.

4. missing wrench to open and close table

5. missing handle on tilt hand wheel.

6. fence was dropped, broken and repaired at one point.


I managed to get most things moving pretty easily tonight.

We found a nice surprise hiding inside the saw, the dado arbor.

Saw seems to be from the latter part of 1932.

Motor has a cool thing on the end to hold a wrench while you tighten the arbor nut, or dado arbor.

Picture time:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

More pictures.


----------



## m1911 (Feb 24, 2009)

That's a nice lightweight portable job site saw for the wood flooring guys to setup in the middle of the customers living room. :laughing: :laughing:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Turns out that this is only the 4th one known to exist with the rolling table, two no.77 and two 177's.


----------



## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Turns out that this is only the 4th one known to exist with the rolling table, two no.77 and two 177's.


You can't have much room left


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

I noticed it's green...

Blade size?


----------



## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

I do not think I ever heard of "2" phase. In my limited knowledge, Single phase and threee phase are it, but would you guess that 2 phase is somehow an older way to express 220/240 voltage? I.E., 110 on 2 hot legs. 

12 wires would indicate it has been reword for 3 phase and the wires can be chenged for 220 to 440.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Joasis said:


> I do not think I ever heard of "2" phase. In my limited knowledge, Single phase and threee phase are it, but would you guess that 2 phase is somehow an older way to express 220/240 voltage? I.E., 110 on 2 hot legs.
> 
> 12 wires would indicate it has been reword for 3 phase and the wires can be chenged for 220 to 440.


It predates 3 phase, I don't think you will find anything 2 phase after 1920. If it was a 2 phase wound motor it would most likely have 4 leads, two for one phase, two for the other.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

2 phase is its own type of power supply. There were select pockets of 2 phase power all over the place. 

Philadelphia was a major area that had 2 phase. I believe that it is still in use. 

Yes, it seems from the 12 leads it has been rewound, but not re stamped on the motor plate. That irritates me. 

Now I have to figure out what lead is what so I can wire it for the correct voltage. 

Might just pull the stator and take it to my local motor shop.

This saw is from 1932, we'll after the 1920 guess. 

I can post some good reads on 2 and 3 phase power later.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

hdavis said:


> I noticed it's green...
> 
> Blade size?


16" blade gives you 4" cutting capacity at 90 degrees.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> 2 phase is its own type of power supply. There were select pockets of 2 phase power all over the place.
> 
> Philadelphia was a major area that had 2 phase. I believe that it is still in use.
> 
> ...


There is a Nema standard for 12 wire 3 phase motors, just look online for a chart.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I have no problems wiring a dual voltage motor correctly, but it becomes a little more difficult when the leads aren't numbered.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> I have no problems wiring a dual voltage motor correctly, but it becomes a little more difficult when the leads aren't numbered.


Oh yeah you're boned.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Inner10 said:


> Oh yeah you're boned.



Be well worth the 40 bucks it will cost me to have my motor shop figure it out for me.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Be well worth the 40 bucks it will cost me to have my motor shop figure it out for me.


Agreed


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Nice find D-:thumbsup:

Keeping this one....:blink:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

This saw is too rare to get rid of, unless it turns out to be a big turd.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I finally dedicated a little cleaning and wrenching time tonight.

Tops are off, rolling table assembly is removed, fence is apart, stub arbor is really stuck.

I am not sure but, maybe they could have beefed up those castings a little, lol.















Bad Whitney!!


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Ok,
Cut the crap D,.."..


That last picture is NOT YOUR SHOP......:laughing:


I think the paint gave it away......:laughing:


Love saw dude,,,:thumbsup:


Kudos...:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

The newton was a good runner, I look past the green. The greenlee 532 is matched to the original color, the Whitney will not stay peeling green for long.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So are you, restoring , her,,,,,,,:blink:


I would,,,


But that's me....


Hope you keep her,,,,,,,,


She is definitely worthy of a position in the shop..........:whistling



JMPOV,....


Keep us updated D,,,,,:thumbsup: look forward to it,,,:thumbsup:


Hope all is well,...


:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Base is gutted. The tilt assembly was an awkward piece to get out of there.





This one loves to clean.






Motor housing, for scale:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

More


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So you have taken the plunge....


Doing the deed......:thumbsup:



Sure I can't interest you in a Sawstop.....:blink:...




:laughing:



Nice saw D,:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah, I am also working on a greenlee 495 as well 

Going to use the 495 to size my lumber, probably mount a feeder on it. 

Use the 77 as my variety saw. I am putting the american usb and Clement #2 in storage for now.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Got new bearings, 6311's are a little spendy.
Stator should be done tomorrow and I hope to have the main table on by Friday.


----------



## Designed2Fail (Apr 10, 2013)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Yeah, I am also working on a greenlee 495 as well
> 
> Going to use the 495 to size my lumber, probably mount a feeder on it.
> 
> Use the 77 as my variety saw. I am putting the american usb and Clement #2 in storage for now.


I think its really cool how you take old out dated machines and bring them back to life. Outdated I should not say though as that has a steel fence not a flimsy piece of aluminum.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

That looks F"cking awesome D!:clap::thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

One hand wheel done, who in their right mind paints over a really sweet brass scale?


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

Looks like the girls are getting very good at cleaning up!


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> One hand wheel done, who in their right mind paints over a really sweet brass scale?



Someone that gets carried away with a paint brush in their hands....:laughing:


Looking real nice D,:thumbup:


Now THAT is one sweet saw....:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Other hand wheel is done (need new spinny part) quick clean an paint on bottom of table, finished all those Damn letters on the back too.


----------



## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

I saw a Whitney slider for sale for like $2200 but wouldn't do it cause I don't have the space...

Darcy I hate you but live vicariously through you. Sweet looking saw, good to see you're restoring her to the former glory.

Hows the pinheiro working out?


----------



## Railman (Jan 19, 2008)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Got new bearings, 6311's are a little spendy.
> Stator should be done tomorrow and I hope to have the main table on by Friday.


The thing that amazes me is the amount of skill it takes to make the forms for a one piece casting like that! It's a work of art! :thumbsup:I wouldn't know where to start.:no:

It's much easier to just weld/bolt some plates together.
Joe


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah Joe, the pattern work for this saw is pretty amazing. Most parts are an inch thick too. 

I know where all the old Whitney patterns are at too. 

The pattern work on the 1860's planer I just picked up in Cincy was amazing as well.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

There are plenty of old books on wood pattern making for this kind of thing - I've read through a couple just to see what things I can pick up. 

I have to agree, it's a lot of skill and a lot of man-hours getting the patterns right. I'm not sure making them graceful was that much more time in the scheme of things.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

No stator for me this weekend. 

Try to get the sliding table parts done I suppose.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

This is an awesome bit of pattern and foundry work from the 1860's.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

There are lots of things to consider when making patterns. One huge thing is the amount of shrinking that occurs with cast iron. You had to make sure the iron would flow well into the molds too. 

You had the pattern maker, the mold makers and foundry guys. 

Molds were only good for so many pours then you had to start over.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> There are lots of things to consider when making patterns. One huge thing is the amount of shrinking that occurs with cast iron. You had to make sure the iron would flow well into the molds too.
> 
> You had the pattern maker, the mold makers and foundry guys.
> 
> Molds were only good for so many pours then you had to start over.


It's amazing how much specialized tooling there was just to be able to do all this more efficiently. Lots of specialized lathe accessories all the way down to a hand tool that had a loop-shaped cutting head for easing sharp edges. "Patternmaking Kinks" (on google books, probably other places) has a lot of how to make your own tools, along with patternmakers' tool chests.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

After the castings were seasoned, some poor soul had to clean them up and then they were sent to the machine shop to have all the precision surfaces machined. 

Some of the machine shop machines were gigantic.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Big machines, big shops to make them. Still small compared to boring a 66' battleship gun or some of the other massive pieces that have been made. Steam turbines for power plants are pretty big, too.

The precision that can be achieved is still amazing to me.


----------



## TBFGhost (Oct 9, 2008)

I say this with no disrespect, but do you make stuff with your OWWM or is restoring them a hobby?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I use them all the time, at least my saws, sanders, drill presses, jointers shaper, planer, etc. 

Getting ready to set up my 5 head tenoner to make some wood screen doors and storms. 

I only mess with solid wood. No ply, no cabinet boxes, no sheet goods. 

I am in the middle of making 15 corbels for a 1860's farm house. 

I guess it is a hobby that I can also use to get paid. I like to buy and sell and rescue machines and either use, study or pass on to another home. 

This saw is 82 years old. I don't think much of anything new compares. 

I just saved a machine built during the civil war. You think anything now will last 152 years?

I would rather post pictures of these things then boring storm windows.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Got the stator back first thing this morning. May have a wire to it and be able to turn it on today.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

So D,

Was it rewired for 220/3ph from 440....:blink:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

PrestigeR&D said:


> So D,
> 
> Was it rewired for 220/3ph from 440....:blink:



The original set up was 2 phase. At some point and time it was rewound to dual voltage 3 phase. 

My issue was that none of the 9 leads were numbered. I had no clue what was what. I could have probably figured it out, but it was easier to pay 50 bucks to have my motor shop figure out what lead was what, mark them and then test the stator for me.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

I totally agree .......


At least now - it is properly marked for both......that's good !


Hope you shoot some vid.......:thumbup:



:thumbsup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I had some issues getting the bearings and motor parts dialed in, but it is running smooth and the top is on. I had some time today to start getting the sliding table parts cleaned, freed up, and figuring out what I needed to have made to replace missing parts.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I am supposed to have my two new inner slider bearing cams tomorrow (I am not getting my hopes up) so I decided to work on the sliding table assembly today.

I took it all apart, cleaned the bearings inside the rollers, stripped all the green paint off everything and then put it all back together.







Just have the fence and miter gauge left. 

I hope to be able to cut some wood with it this week, but it probably won't happen.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Fence and miter done. 

Now where are my damn parts I need.


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

Is there going to be a video when she's all finished...hopefully..:blink: 


You do a good job in video's D,:thumbsup: .....you should do commercials for machinery.........



The Festool Commercial you did was awesome!!!!!!!:clap: 


:thumbup:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Soon as it's buttoned up and I get a blade on it I will shoot a little video. I try to do that with everything I get set up and going. 

Speaking of that, I will have another with the greenlee 532 in action cutting some tenons soon.


----------



## tccoggs (Dec 17, 2008)

I like the looks of this one. I could see myself using this one. The last one was a bit too antique for me. What do you think this is worth restored like this???


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tccoggs said:


> I like the looks of this one. I could see myself using this one. The last one was a bit too antique for me. What do you think this is worth restored like this???


If I were to sell it, I would think I could get up to $3500, maybe more on an online auction. 

The main reason being, this is a really rare and desierable saw. I am pretty sure it is one of five No. 77's with a sliding table. 

A certain person from NJ has a hoard of Whitney saws which has upped the price quite a bit. 

Honestly, even at 3500 it would be a deal, you won't find anything built like this anymore. 

Can't wait to make some saw dust.


----------



## tccoggs (Dec 17, 2008)

I think the biggest issue I would face is the lack of a T-square fence. I have so many jigs and attachments I have made over the years. I really have never worked on anything else other than CNC fences on big sliding saws like Altendorf.

I would pay 3500 for this saw gladly. What's the blade size on this, 12??


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tccoggs said:


> I think the biggest issue I would face is the lack of a T-square fence. I have so many jigs and attachments I have made over the years. I really have never worked on anything else other than CNC fences on big sliding saws like Altendorf.
> 
> I would pay 3500 for this saw gladly. What's the blade size on this, 12??



After using a t square fence and then using a rack and pinion type fence like this one, you couldn't pay me to go back to the t square style. 

It can run up to a 16" blade and up to a 2" wide dado stack.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

This is a saw for processing solid wood, I don't think they knew what sheet goods were in 1932.


----------



## TimelessQuality (Sep 23, 2007)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> This is a saw for processing solid wood, I don't think they knew what sheet goods were in 1932.


It was introduced in the us in 1865...

Cool saw though


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I believe it was more like a nice (expensive) veneer on a solid wood backer then. Lots of old furniture made like that. 

They standardized the 4x8 sheet about the time this saw was made. Not sure when they started processing ply for cabinet carcasses though.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Picked up the two parts that I was missing and needed made. They were the eccentric shafts that held two of the bearings for the inner sliding table rollers.

First two pictures are of the original part, next two are the new part. The guy did a fantastic job.









I spent a little time trying to dial in the roller heights for the sliding table, needs a little more fiddling.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Close, so close......


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Found a place 35 miles from home that had a wall full of saw blades up to 20". 

Picked up a 14" combo blade (never used a combo) made by Everlast. They had FS tool, popular tool and Tenryu, decided to try the everlast on the owners recommendation. 

They are made in Florida. My machinist stopped by and picked up the blade to bore it to 1 1/4".


----------



## Designed2Fail (Apr 10, 2013)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> Found a place 35 miles from home that had a wall full of saw blades up to 20".
> 
> Picked up a 14" combo blade (never used a combo) made by Everlast. They had FS tool, popular tool and Tenryu, decided to try the everlast on the owners recommendation.
> 
> They are made in Florida. My machinist stopped by and picked up the blade to bore it to 1 1/4".


excuse my ignorance but what is a combo blade?


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

Designed2Fail said:


> excuse my ignorance but what is a combo blade?


Rip&crosscut


----------



## Designed2Fail (Apr 10, 2013)

hdavis said:


> Rip&crosscut


Thanks never heard of it before. I am taking it is for rough in not finish correct?


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

ano


Designed2Fail said:


> Thanks never heard of it before. I am taking it is for rough in not finish correct?



No, just the opposite.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

New blade is bored to 1 1/4", installed, top had its final cleaning and two coats of wax. 

Need to wire up my temp starter and fire this thing up.


----------



## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

Very nice work and attention to detail. My only claim to restoration fame is my 1978 BMW motorcycle that runs and looks new. I can see some similarities, lol. If you don't mind me asking, what did you resurface the table with? I have a Jet cabinet saw that will need it when she gets out of dry dock.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

I just cleaned the tops with a knotted wire wheel on a grinder, hit them with my rotex sander up to 220g, scrubbed with paint thinner and a scratch pad then two coats of paste wax. It looks better now then those last pictures.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

It cuts the wood, not the finger.


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It cuts the wood, not the finger.


It's got the same technology as SawStop?


----------



## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

No,...

You have to supply the common sense......


----------



## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

PrestigeR&D said:


> No,...
> 
> You have to supply the common sense......


Well at least it will cut a hotdog.


----------



## hdavis (Feb 14, 2012)

WarnerConstInc. said:


> It cuts the wood, not the finger.


:clap::clap::clap:


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Got the badges cleaned up and back on.


----------



## Deckhead (Dec 9, 2010)

Looks good Darcy. 

I took a page out of your book and have 2400 2" dado's to make in some cypress. My machinery guy had a 1950's (maybe 60's) craftsman 10" radial arm saw... It worked well. Those older machines are stupid heavy but once cleaned up a bit can take a beating.

Did I read correctly that the whitney will accept a 2" Dado stack? What's that sound like? 

I don't know that I've got the kahuna's to run a 2" stack.


----------



## tool613 (Sep 27, 2013)

you did a nice job on that one there D. thanks for sharing as i have never seen inside one of them but had heard good things. The Motor is very cool and the the crank out table.

jack
English machines


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

Deckhead said:


> Looks good Darcy.
> 
> I took a page out of your book and have 2400 2" dado's to make in some cypress. My machinery guy had a 1950's (maybe 60's) craftsman 10" radial arm saw... It worked well. Those older machines are stupid heavy but once cleaned up a bit can take a beating.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I can fit a 2" wide stack on the dado arbor. 

A good RAS works well for grooving like that. 

I suppose a 2" stack would make quite a noise.


----------



## WarnerConstInc. (Jan 30, 2008)

tool613 said:


> you did a nice job on that one there D. thanks for sharing as i have never seen inside one of them but had heard good things. The Motor is very cool and the the crank out table.
> 
> jack
> English machines


I hate that motor. It was a real pia to get it back together just right. If you had a collar off a touch it would resonate and howl when the collar would slip or catch on the shaft. I think if it was still oil lube bearings that wouldn't be an issue due to the oil lubing those parts. 

I still need to have a couple things made, but they are not needed to use the saw.


----------

