# Online File Backup - Anyone use it?



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Anyone use an online data backup service? It would be such a headache if I lost my quickbooks file especially. I back it up to a disc. But then there is the what if of a fire, tornado, whatever. 

I looked at carbonite.com but its way to pricy for an outfit my size.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Spencer said:


> Anyone use an online data backup service? It would be such a headache if I lost my quickbooks file especially. I back it up to a disc. But then there is the what if of a fire, tornado, whatever.
> 
> I looked at carbonite.com but its way to pricy for an outfit my size.


Just target your QB backup to a free dropbox folder.


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## lawndart (Dec 3, 2006)

Google drive is free, and backs up all of my important files similar to Dropbox. If you have a gmail email account you already have an unused drive account sitting there waiting to be used.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> Just target your QB backup to a free dropbox folder.


Many thanks boss. Got dropbox downloaded and set up. Worked perfectly. Peace of mind. :thumbup:


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I use dropbox as well. It's loaded on my phone, my desktop and my laptop so I actually have 4 drives that it's backed up on, in case of fire. The final safeguard is the actual online backup.

I save all of my business docs and designs to dropbox so I can access them from my phone wherever I am. 

Make sure you use password protection on your QB files.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Drop here too. I hit the free service. Then referred the people abd got bumped to 50G. I then decided to purchase the 19.99 a month service to get 500G to site jobsite photos. Last month they double my storage to 1T for free and permanently.

I also back everything up on a WD external 1T drive.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Never, never ever would I back up my computer files onto something that has even the slightest possibility that someone could get access to them and that goes especially for our sneaky government.

If you are going to use online backups then it would make sense (at least to me) that you would not want to use an online system to store all your passwords, credit or personal information. If that is the case then you need an in-house backup and an online backup. That is too much thinking and a waste of time and money when you can just use an external hard drive that takes less than a few seconds to put in motion.

Keep it simple. I purchase a 2 terabyte hard drive for less that $100, backup my entire computer about once a week and I put the hard drive in a fireproof safe. About two times every year I backup everything on a 2nd hard drive and I hide that drive in another location where our sneaky government will never be able to find it (not that I have anything to hide).

I finally learned how to connect all my computers together and I have 5 computers in my office. To make backing up simple I put everything on 1 computer in 1 folder that contains many sub folders.

It is a nice feeling to know that my information is in my safe and there is no way the outside world can access it without my permission nor knowledge.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

pcplumber said:


> Never, never ever would I back up my computer files onto something that has even the slightest possibility that someone could get access to them and that goes especially for our sneaky government. If you are going to use online backups then it would make sense (at least to me) that you would not want to use an online system to store all your passwords, credit or personal information. If that is the case then you need an in-house backup and an online backup. That is too much thinking and a waste of time and money when you can just use an external hard drive that takes less than a few seconds to put in motion. Keep it simple. I purchase a 2 terabyte hard drive for less that $100, backup my entire computer about once a week and I put the hard drive in a fireproof safe. About two times every year I backup everything on a 2nd hard drive and I hide that drive in another location where our sneaky government will never be able to find it (not that I have anything to hide). I finally learned how to connect all my computers together and I have 5 computers in my office. To make backing up simple I put everything on 1 computer in 1 folder that contains many sub folders. It is a nice feeling to know that my information is in my safe and there is no way the outside world can access it without my permission nor knowledge.


I take it these system of yours are not wired to the net. Its vastly harder for hackers to hack systems like Dropbox than it is your system if its connected to the net. They also encrypt the files so even if someone did hack them they wouldn't be much use where as on your system they can pull the raw data.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

BCConstruction said:


> I take it these system of yours are not wired to the net. Its vastly harder for hackers to hack systems like Dropbox than it is your system if its connected to the net. They also encrypt the files so even if someone did hack them they wouldn't be much use where as on your system they can pull the raw data.


All someone needs to do is figure out your password to Drop Box and you will have a hard time convincing me that it is impossible. My next major concern is that our government without a doubt can get into your drop box. Even if I have nothing to hide I don't want to give the bstd's the opportunity to look at my junk.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

pcplumber said:


> All someone needs to do is figure out your password to Drop Box and you will have a hard time convincing me that it is impossible. My next major concern is that our government without a doubt can get into your drop box. Even if I have nothing to hide I don't want to give the bstd's the opportunity to look at my junk.


Depends what how strong your password is. But if you have a good password them its way easier for a hacker to access your PC than Dropbox. Dropbox even has a 2 step verification which is almost impossible to pass.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

pcplumber said:


> All someone needs to do is figure out your password to Drop Box and you will have a hard time convincing me that it is impossible. My next major concern is that our government without a doubt can get into your drop box. Even if I have nothing to hide I don't want to give the bstd's the opportunity to look at my junk.


Who the flip cares. Its a quickbook file. Quite honestly the government has every right to my business finances. Its part of living in this great nation. We all have to pay our taxes and the government can only know I'm paying my taxes if they can see how much money I made. 

Reading through the lines I would bet money that you're running shady finances and with as much money as you make I bet it would be an insane fine in back taxes. That is the only reason I can understand why a person would have such paranoia toward the government seeing your finances. I personally could care less what they see. My books are legit. If anything I would rather they hack into my dropbox and see I'm legit vs going through a formal audit. Sounds like it would take a lot less of my time.


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## EthanB (Sep 28, 2011)

I agree that Dropbox can be just as safe as my desktop. 

Spencer, I understand your perspective but you'll find that most of us who have had interactions with the IRS and other government agencies are extremely gun shy, even though we run clean operations. Between relocating my business twice and starting, and closing another business, I have been audited three times. One paper audit and two full audits. They WILL find something and the WILL fine the bejeezus out of you for it. In one case I owed under $300 in additional taxes but it cost me two days of time and $800 for my bookkeeper to find that out and the fines on that $300 were more than the original inaccuracy. So they found $300 and it cost me close to 2 grand. That was my LEAST expensive audit.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Spencer said:


> Who the flip cares. Its a quickbook file. Quite honestly the government has every right to my business finances. Its part of living in this great nation. We all have to pay our taxes and the government can only know I'm paying my taxes if they can see how much money I made.
> 
> Reading through the lines I would bet money that you're running shady finances and with as much money as you make I bet it would be an insane fine in back taxes. That is the only reason I can understand why a person would have such paranoia toward the government seeing your finances. I personally could care less what they see. My books are legit. If anything I would rather they hack into my dropbox and see I'm legit vs going through a formal audit. Sounds like it would take a lot less of my time.


When you store your files online it is not only the government snooping in your files. I can't remember exactly who, but it was someone like Google Mail (or some big company) that recently got caught snooping into private emails and they were using the information for some sort of marketing purposes.

You don't care if our government illegally snoops in our files.

Your drop box is about as safe as this article where Google was accused of snooping in emails and the average person would think their email password for their drop box was as safe as Google's email passwords.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1112712584/google-gmail-spying-101312/

There is one fact that you can't prove and this is the reason I will never store files online and that is:

You cannot prove that your stored files are 100% safe from being viewed by our government, Drop Box employees, hackers, personal identity thieves, etc.

If there is any chance that the above can happen then why put yourself at risk. 

What is the big deal about putting your QB files on a CD or DVD every month and bury them in your back yard if you are worrying about a fire or hurricane.

My personal preference is to avoid worrying about our government and/or businesses having the potential to snoop in my personal files. Regardless of how safe you feel drop box is I will sleep better at night not having to even think about whether or not our government or a business can see my files. 

I have proprietary software I've been developing for 20 years and while I give a lot of it away there are many applications I don't want people to have access to. If I used an online storage I would either have to store my software on the online storage, or I would have to separate them. If I have to separate them then the online storage loses a high percent of its value because it becomes more burdensome to manage. If online storage can't give me all the security my external hard drive has then why would I want to go half-and-half with online when it is inferior.

My personal belief is; I don't see online storage as being safe nor does it have any values I want to waste my time with. As stated in one post, the writer said he uses drop box so he can access his files from anywhere. Is he using drop box for storage, or is he using it so he can access his files from anywhere? For myself, there is a huge difference.

I do use drop box. I use it to send large files to my CPA, to banks and sometimes a large file to other businesses. I will not use it for a backup system because I don't think files are safe from unwanted eyes, hackers, personal identity thieves, etc. and why take the chance when you can buy a 2 terabyte hard drive for less than $100 and backup your junk for several years. The hard drive is faster, safer and you don't have to worry.

The probability of hacking into my company's computer through the internet is an entirely different subject that has nothing to do with the issues regarding online storage.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

EthanB said:


> I agree that Dropbox can be just as safe as my desktop.
> 
> Spencer, I understand your perspective but you'll find that most of us who have had interactions with the IRS and other government agencies are extremely gun shy, even though we run clean operations. Between relocating my business twice and starting, and closing another business, I have been audited three times. One paper audit and two full audits. They WILL find something and the WILL fine the bejeezus out of you for it. In one case I owed under $300 in additional taxes but it cost me two days of time and $800 for my bookkeeper to find that out and the fines on that $300 were more than the original inaccuracy. So they found $300 and it cost me close to 2 grand. That was my LEAST expensive audit.


Personally, I am not worried about audits nor am I 'worried' about the IRS getting into my files. I just don't want to make it easy for anyone to have access without permission and I don't want our government to violate my rights. The other person's post states that he does not care if his rights are violated.

Several posts state that drop box is secure and I would not bet money on that. There are so many programs today that blow through passwords it is scary. If hackers can break into Sony, government computers and bank computers then they can get into drop box and once they are in your drop box account encryption is useless because it would be the same as you going into your own account.

American citizens lost all their rights to privacy after 911 and one way to fight back is by reducing the amount of information we transfer online. A few years ago, if you go back through my posts, you will see where people argued with me when I told them that the FBI kept going to my website and the FBI called me on the phone several times late at night. I knew it was the FBI by the area code in Washington D. C. and Maryland. The caller mis-pronounced my company name and asked for Best Time Plumbing and this matched the keyword used to search and retrieve my website several times. My tracker also shows the geographical area of my website visitor and it was from Maryland. This occurred on two occasions because I was looking at expensive military guns online. Then, I made copies of my website tracking records and posted them on CT for proof.

We are living in a very scary world and there was a new saying that came about a few years ago:

"If you don't want the entire world to know about something then don't put in on the internet."

If you choose to use online storage then you should be censoring the information you store and this would include your passwords and all personal information that could be used and abused. If you have to censor your stuff them why waste the time with online storage.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

The following paragraph is written by Dropbox. It says their employees are prohibited from viewing content in your files. This tells me that they have the ability to view your files and it doesn't say they don't have the ability to view your files. I don't see anything here that tells me that encryption inhibits their ability to view your files. Then, it says they will view your files when legally required to do so. I suppose that means when our government tells them to produce your files even without a court order. Here is the best reason I would never use Dropbox. It is because you may get sued by someone and their attorney subpoenas Dropbox to produce copies of all your files and these include files you thought you deleted. Now, attorneys, the courts, your plaintiff and the entire world has access to things they never knew about, things they had no reason to know and things that could be detrimental.

FROM DROPBOX:
Other Dropbox users can't see your files in Dropbox unless you deliberately share links to files or share folders. Dropbox employees are prohibited from viewing the content of files you store in your account. Employees may access file metadata (e.g., file names and locations) when they have a legitimate reason, like providing technical support. Like most online services, we have a small number of employees who must be able to access user data for the reasons stated in our privacy policy (e.g., when legally required to do so). But that's the rare exception, not the rule. We have strict policy and technical access controls that prohibit employee access except in these rare circumstances. In addition, we employ a number of physical, technical, and heuristic security measures to protect user information from unauthorized access.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> All someone needs to do is figure out your password to Drop Box and you will have a hard time convincing me that it is impossible. My next major concern is that our government without a doubt can get into your drop box. Even if I have nothing to hide I don't want to give the bstd's the opportunity to look at my junk.


They would need your username and password. I use an alphanumeric symbol password that is longer than most software can crack without locking out the account.

If your computer's are connected to the net then you are no safer than those that use drop box. In fact, since I'm betting you probably don't know how to close ports or detect port scanning you are more vulnerable than those of us who use a cloud service.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Cloud based InterNet services are cheap and easy, but only a lazy fool would ever think they will be or are secure. TANSTAAFL

Example, "free" tax fillings so the helpers can pimp your info.... 

Taxes can be legally collected Ex post facto, If uncle sugar has all the information, they just send you the amount due next Obama wants to buy some voters....

What will you do when your competition buys your Free storage info?

What rational person would keep their accounts on a shelf at the public library ????:blink:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Cloud based InterNet services are cheap and easy, but only a lazy fool would ever think they will be or are secure. TANSTAAFL
> 
> Example, "free" tax fillings so the helpers can pimp your info....
> 
> ...


Dropbox does not sell your data. Try again.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

Lol look at all these make believe situations. 

First of as I have said. If a hacker wants your files its gonna be vastly easier to hack your PC than it would be to hack Dropbox. Now if your the kind of person who uses low strength passwords like your surname or even passwords like "password" I have seen people use password hints telling them what their password is. 

Also got luck hacking Dropbox when you use their 2 step verification. They send a text to the phone you have with a code. This code changes every time you log in. 

So not only would you need the username and password you would also need the cell phone owned by this account. 

Did you hear about the backdoor the NSA have built into all desktop CPU's. I think it was snowden who released this info. Its would take the NSA hundreds of years to crack 256bit encryption on just one file. But why do that when you have 24/7 access to every PC connected to the net with a click of a button.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

pcplumber said:


> The following paragraph is written by Dropbox. It says their employees are prohibited from viewing content in your files. This tells me that they have the ability to view your files and it doesn't say they don't have the ability to view your files. I don't see anything here that tells me that encryption inhibits their ability to view your files. Then, it says they will view your files when legally required to do so. I suppose that means when our government tells them to produce your files even without a court order. Here is the best reason I would never use Dropbox. It is because you may get sued by someone and their attorney subpoenas Dropbox to produce copies of all your files and these include files you thought you deleted. Now, attorneys, the courts, your plaintiff and the entire world has access to things they never knew about, things they had no reason to know and things that could be detrimental.
> 
> FROM DROPBOX:
> Other Dropbox users can't see your files in Dropbox unless you deliberately share links to files or share folders. Dropbox employees are prohibited from viewing the content of files you store in your account. Employees may access file metadata (e.g., file names and locations) when they have a legitimate reason, like providing technical support. Like most online services, we have a small number of employees who must be able to access user data for the reasons stated in our privacy policy (e.g., when legally required to do so). But that's the rare exception, not the rule. We have strict policy and technical access controls that prohibit employee access except in these rare circumstances. In addition, we employ a number of physical, technical, and heuristic security measures to protect user information from unauthorized access.


I just think you're being excessively anal on this subject. My thought is simply, who cares? I guess I'm just not that important of a person to think that there is anyone just waiting around to hack hack into my drop box account to see how I "really" did this year.

If we were talking about identity theft I would understand where you are coming from. But from the beginning we've just been talking about financial records. I really don't give a rip if the government or anyone else sees how much I spent at lowes last year. And if my competition is that desperate that they would pay drop box employees to compromise my quickbook file in drop box they can have it. 

I can also tell you that if you think your hard drive is safe in a "fireproof safe" you're dreaming. I good fire will melt anything in that sucker. I just had an acquaintance loose a lot of good stuff that was stored in a liberty safe. They are as good as any on fire rating. No way would electronics last in there in the event of a real fire. Thats why I want my stuff on a cloud. Let the government see what they want. I just don't want to PIA of not having years of financial records because of a fire, tornado, theft, whatever.


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## onmywayup (Aug 18, 2012)

My qb file, and the rest of my business files including customer files are even better than backed up to Dropbox... They are literally stored in Dropbox so they are automatically backed up every time I close them down. Plus Dropbox is saving a few past versions of each file in case I f something up


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## DeBernardi (Oct 2, 2014)

My boss purchased a 4TB cloud storage device. All of our files go on there and we have a cloud we can access from anywhere.


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

Dropbox is not or, at least, recently, not as safe as everyone is saying.

the 2nd article says you do not need a password to get into someone's Dropbox.

http://www.zdnet.com/dropbox-drops-the-security-notification-ball-again-7000029216/

http://grahamcluley.com/2014/05/dropbox-box-leak/

Maybe, many contractors have nothing in their Dropbox that is important, but I can't see taking the chance when you can use a 1, 2, or 3 terabyte external hard drive that you have better control of. External hard drives even come with free software that will do automatic and periodic backups.

You can find many more articles about Dropbox's security flaws.

So much for Dropbox's and all the claims!

Make sure your computer doesn't automatically upload selfies and files you don't want the world to see, or to be safe us an external hard drive and you don't have to worry.

I purchase about 3 used computers every year on Ebay for about $39 each and I used them for some tasks and I reload the operating system. One thing I always do when I get a computer is I like to see what the previous person thought he removed, but left on the computer. The pictures and files I find tell me that about 30% of the computers I get have things on them that their owners would not like the world to see.


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## The Coastal Craftsman (Jun 29, 2009)

pcplumber said:


> Dropbox is not or, at least, recently, not as safe as everyone is saying.
> 
> the 2nd article says you do not need a password to get into someone's Dropbox.
> 
> ...


Did you even read the reports? The files were shared via links the from the people who own the dropbox accounts. If you send a link to a file and that link is then passed around the net what do you expect. Not really a security flaw but more like user error. Its the same as you giving your password out to your email address online to a friend. They may pass this password around for everyone to use.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

If you are that worried about what you are putting in DB encrypt it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> Dropbox is not or, at least, recently, not as safe as everyone is saying.
> 
> the 2nd article says you do not need a password to get into someone's Dropbox.
> 
> ...


Saying that putting your information on an external drive is safe and worry free is just about the most ignorant thing I have heard said on the subject. You say you buy computers, yet it's painfully clear that you don't know much about them or secure them.

All that I need is your IP. If I can get that, I can get your data. Most don't even know what packet sniffing, port scanning or using proxy servers mean.

Heck, I don't even need that. Just a **** site setup to install a trojan horse or key logger. I guarantee that DropBox is far more secure than your external drive.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Oh, and let's tell the whole story. Here's an excerpt from the second article:

"If you’re using the Business version of Dropbox there’s some good news – there is a security setting available to restrict access to Share Links."


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## pcplumber (Oct 12, 2008)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Saying that putting your information on an external drive is safe and worry free is just about the most ignorant thing I have heard said on the subject. You say you buy computers, yet it's painfully clear that you don't know much about them or secure them.
> 
> All that I need is your IP. If I can get that, I can get your data. Most don't even know what packet sniffing, port scanning or using proxy servers mean.
> 
> Heck, I don't even need that. Just a **** site setup to install a trojan horse or key logger. I guarantee that DropBox is far more secure than your external drive.


Everyone's IP address is simple to get. You look them up on whois.com (I think that is the name). I get everyone's IP address on my website tracker, and there are many more ways. Just because someone can get into my computer doesn't mean I want to give people two open doors. 

The question asked for this thread is; Do you use online storage and the answers are only my personal preferences and opinions.

I agree with you and everyone that Dropbox's security issues is not a grave concern and Dropbox is a terrific tool to use. Personally, I will never trust the security of any online storage and I would not waste my time uploading to a website where I do not have 100% control of my files.

George Orwell's 1984 has been here for a long time and while us contractors may not store files that are important you can bet that when our government decides to turn against the people they will have far more information than they need to use against the people. I want to protect my family, myself, the future and will not put my files in a place where there is a slight probability that people can either accidentally or maliciously access my files even if they contain nothing that is important. Just because someone can get into my computer that does not mean I want to give them two ways to access my files.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

I think the important aspect here is you need to have 2 copies, preferably in separate locations. 

How you want to accomplish that is a matter of choice.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

SectorSecurity said:


> I think the important aspect here is you need to have 2 copies, preferably in separate locations.
> 
> How you want to accomplish that is a matter of choice.


The voice of reason has spoken. Good old fashion common sense at its finest. :thumbup:


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

Spencer said:


> The voice of reason has spoken. Good old fashion common sense at its finest. :thumbup:


I also have an extensive computer security background. :thumbup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Drop here too. I hit the free service. Then referred the people abd got bumped to 50G. I then decided to purchase the 19.99 a month service to get 500G to site jobsite photos. Last month they double my storage to 1T for free and permanently.
> 
> I also back everything up on a WD external 1T drive.





Spencer said:


> The voice of reason has spoken. Good old fashion common sense at its finest. :thumbup:


:whistling


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

pcplumber said:


> Everyone's IP address is simple to get. You look them up on whois.com (I think that is the name). I get everyone's IP address on my website tracker, and there are many more ways. Just because someone can get into my computer doesn't mean I want to give people two open doors.
> 
> Whois will tell you about domains and who owns them.It does not give you someone's IP.
> 
> ...


What you are doing is all feel good. They already know everything they need to know about you. PM my you IP and let me port scan your router and tell you how secure you really are.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

TNTSERVICES said:


> What you are doing is all feel good. They already know everything they need to know about you. PM my you IP and let me port scan your router and tell you how secure you really are.


A non-credentialed port scan isn't going to turn up much more than what happens to be listening on a specific port. Its a good start but if you want the meat and potato's you need to get credentials then run a credentialed scan.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

SectorSecurity said:


> A non-credentialed port scan isn't going to turn up much more than what happens to be listening on a specific port. Its a good start but if you want the meat and potato's you need to get credentials then run a credentialed scan.


I disagree to some extent. Internally sure, but attacks start from the outside without authentication.

What I am saying is that if you are seriously looking at security and know what you are looking at then yes a credentialed scan is much more conclusive and yields far fewer false positives.

My point was to show how many open ports he has. It's an eye opener to say the least. I am not about to actually waste my time fixing his vulnerabilities.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Saying that putting your information on an external drive is safe and worry free is just about the most ignorant thing I have heard said on the subject. You say you buy computers, yet it's painfully clear that you don't know much about them or secure them.
> 
> All that I need is your IP. If I can get that, I can get your data. Most don't even know what packet sniffing, port scanning or using proxy servers mean.
> 
> Heck, I don't even need that. Just a **** site setup to install a trojan horse or key logger. I guarantee that DropBox is far more secure than your external drive.


I'm tempted to send you mine to see if you can break into my Debian system. I doubt it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

RangoWA said:


> I'm tempted to send you mine to see if you can break into my Debian system. I doubt it.


Why? This has nothing to do with you or your system. I never made any claims that I could hack into anyone's system or that I was some kind of tech guru. I just want to show PC how vulnerable his system really is.

Funny how things are interpreted and how guys want to prove something when there is no need.


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Why? This has nothing to do with you or your system. I never made any claims that I could hack into anyone's system or that I was some kind of tech guru. I just want to show PC how vulnerable his system really is.
> 
> Funny how things are interpreted and how guys want to prove something when there is no need.


I interpreted what you said and have nothing to prove. You said all you need is an IP address and you can get anyone's data.


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## SectorSecurity (Nov 26, 2013)

RangoWA said:


> I'm tempted to send you mine to see if you can break into my Debian system. I doubt it.


ShellShock lol :laughing:


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## RangoWA (Jun 25, 2014)

SectorSecurity said:


> ShellShock lol :laughing:


Is there an English translation for that?


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