# Bidding labor



## Wallpro74 (Oct 6, 2020)

Hey,everyone. New here. I need advice. I've specialized in hardscapes for 20 years,SRW's and brick pavers primarily. I'm proficient and regularly get called in to repair/rebuild work from others not so proficient or just careless. Anyway ,I've been mostly freelancing the last ten years for a variety of reasons. I can bid a complete job,but I have an opportunity to build two decent sized walls, subbing them from a concrete buddy of mine. He will supply all materials,excavate and backfill,as he has the necessary equipment. Basically I just need to show up and build 'em. My question is, if I normally charge $30/sq. ft to handle everything,is charging $10/sq ft to just build appropriate and fair? I have a bad habit of undercutting my fees as a "FRIEND DISCOUNT" and usually end up regretting it. 
Thanks in advance


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

Run the scenario on paper a few times and see how you feel about it.

My hardscape guy uses a day rate for his crew, plus additional material charges if we come up short. One day minimum, then full or half days as required. (Not that he's too happy about it by the end of the year, but that's what he does.)


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## Wallpro74 (Oct 6, 2020)

MarkJames said:


> Run the scenario on paper a few times and see how you feel about it.
> 
> My hardscape guy uses a day rate for his crew, plus additional material charges if we come up short. One day minimum, then full or half days as required. (Not that he's too happy about it by the end of the year, but that's what he does.)


Thanks for responding. I'll try the day and even hourly scenarios. Basically ,my concrete buddy needs my price before he can calculate the entire cost for the client


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

If your normal charge is $30/sq ft then you must have your labor broken out to arrive at that figurr.

Work backwards and start deducting materials your buddy will supply and you should have your number.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

Wallpro74 said:


> I have a bad habit of undercutting my fees as a "FRIEND DISCOUNT" and usually end up regretting it.
> Thanks in advance


Are you making enough money to retire? Saving any?

I doubt your friends will support you when you’re too old to work.

I think the best thing any of us can do for our children is to charge enough to ensure they won’t be supporting us when we’re old and gray.

… Just something to think about when you consider handing out the discount.


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## KAP (Feb 19, 2011)

If you're in business for yourself subbing to your friend, and being he is covering Materials, your other expenses of being in business (i.e. - Labor, Overhead, and Profit) don't simply go away whether you're doing the wall as a sub or the whole project... if you short yourself on the hours with your friend, that shortfall will have to be covered somewhere else on other jobs...

Calculate everything as you normally would sans Materials that covers what you need to be in business (i.e. - Labor, Overhead and Profit) and that's your rate... that's "fair"... you don't need to put yourself into a rob Peter to pay Paul cycle by only charging Labor alone...

If you don't, and only charge Labor, guess where the Overhead & Profit come from? YOUR pocket...


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## JoeStanton (Sep 24, 2008)

How much can you get done in a day? What happens if he doesn't fulfill his obligations and it slows you down? Is the job covered under his insurance or yours?

You need to know what you need to make an hour. I don't care if you charge by the min, hour, day, week , month. 

I have 3 rates, what to charge to get the job and stay profitable, normal rate if work is steady but needed and what I charge when we don't need the work.

One thing I learned, once you sub and the gc has a price, that's your rate! I have a painter I make 100% to 200% on, he doesn't know how to charge. He always gets a good "bonus" at every job and puts me above all other customers.


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## Mordekyle (May 20, 2014)

JoeStanton said:


> I have a painter I make 100% to 200% on, he doesn't know how to charge. He always gets a good "bonus" at every job and puts me above all other customers.


And everybody is happy. Win/win/win.


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