# Trying to find people that actually want to work?



## Peachllc (Dec 14, 2014)

Hi guys, and gals,


My name is Reza and I own a company which does comercial and public projects.

My dilemma is, for the longest time, while trying to develope my business, I would beg borrow and plead for jobs. I would leave no call unanswered and would give quotes the night of my visit to a job that I visited and would give follow up calls to make sure.

Well now the tables have turned, the economy is getting better and better (my opinion at least) and I'm working 17 hour days to get jobs and have made myself really busy, I have a lot of contracts and looking for subs to do them...

but the issue is, no one wants to work!!! Specially in the carpentry trade.

people don't return calls, they don't reply to emails, they want a deposit just to give a quote!! 

Am I missing something here? What's going on? I have jobs with deposits paid on, and people turning down work!


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

You're question is really vague.What are commercial and publics projects.How are you looking for help?Are you paying a decent wage?
Just for instance.There is an ad in my local CL that states"Experienced carpenter wanted with own tools.Willing to work hard for 8-10 hours a day.No drunks or druggies.Work will last 1 week"$100 per day.
Been on CL 2 months.Can't imagine why???
Can't answer you're question without more info.There are good people out there ,willing to work ,with good experience.You get what you pay for.And you've not given us enough info for a decent response imho.


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## ObuckiO (Feb 19, 2014)

They must accept you as a friend on FaceBook before they ever recognize who you are.


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

For a good carpenter, a getting paid to submit a quote isn't unreasonable. I'm busy. I have a number of people calling me wanting me to come do work for them. Every minute I spend visiting your site or preparing your quote is time (money) I'm losing from one of my other jobs. Why should I have to eat this loss if you're the one who needs the quote?

Furthermore, there's no reason for me not to charge for it. Some people are looking for quality people to do their jobs, and they realize quality people are busy and hard to find. They have no problem paying me to look at the job and give them a quote of what I could do it for. Also, by charging for quotes, it ensures I don't have to waste time with people who aren't serious, or who are looking for the low price.

My suggestion if you're looking for quality guys is to find people who are known to do good work in your area, and if they charge for a quote, pay them. If they are good tradespeople, they're worth it.


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## Lugnut1968 (Dec 11, 2014)

thehockeydman said:


> For a good carpenter, a getting paid to submit a quote isn't unreasonable.


This is the way I have been doing for quite a while now. 

I also will agree with you that there are a lot of folks out there who just do not want to work... but if you are as busy as you are.. the good folks are probably already getting slammed with work as well. And not to be rude.. but... why would they leave from making money on one job to go bid another job that is not even going to bother with paying them to work up a quote? Especially if they already have a lot of work lined up themselves.. 

I know if I have my next 3-7 jobs lined up and someone wants me to come work a bid up for free they dang near get laughed at *shrugs*


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## Seattle GC (Nov 9, 2014)

I keep a running black list of arrogant subs who feel because they are currently busy they want a fee paid or give us attitude about doing a bid. Those guys are the ones who call when things are a little slower and I simply remind them that I have no work for them due to there attitude. 
On another note it takes time to build relations with a core group of subs, you have to weed out the guys who feel they should be paid a fee to provide a quote. We bid all types of work and only except bids from our core group, we pass work back and forth as it should be. Be patient you will find who works best for you. And for those who don't just pray they stay busy for a lifetime.


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

Seattle GC said:


> ...You have to weed out the guys who feel they should be paid a fee to provide a quote.


Sounds to me like your "weeding out" some of your best potential subs. Of the best carpenters I know, most don't do free quotes.

There's nothing wrong with turing guys away who unprofessional or miserable to work with. But if asking to be paid for the time it takes to prepare a solid, accurate quote is what you mean by "attitude," you would weed yourself out as someone I would not want to work with. Why would I work for you when there are others who are happy to pay me appropriately for my time?


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## Lugnut1968 (Dec 11, 2014)

thehockeydman said:


> But if asking to be paid for the time it takes to prepare a solid, accurate quote is what you mean by "attitude," you would weed yourself out as someone I would not want to work with. Why would I work for you when there are others who are happy to pay me appropriately for my time?


Agreed. Around here most of the GC's with this type temperament are the ones who are greedy as heck and want to keep every penny up top in their pockets they can. Usually trying to pay the subs about half of what the work normally brings. Those GC's calls always seem to go straight to voice mail on my phone  

... ain't going broke working my rear off and making someone else's pockets fat here... not gonna happen


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## Easy Gibson (Dec 3, 2010)

I... I want to work...


I've taken the bait.


Waiting patiently for the switch.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

IMHO it's not that people don't want to work. It's just that you haven't given anyone a good reason as to why they would want to work for you. You essentially have to sell yourself to the right talent. Of course that doesn't mean that you have to kiss up to someone and beg them to work for you but you do indeed have to present yourself in a manner by which a sub will know that he can get consistent work from you and that you'll pay him in full and on time.

Personally I will not deal with "desperate" general contractors. Life experience has shown me that when someone is in a desperate situation, it's because they (A) are short on money, (B) don't have any degree of organization, or (C) have grossly mis-managed the project making it less than profitable for anyone who attempts to work on it. Also I will not work with contractors who finger-point and shift the blame whenever things go wrong. 

Having said that, I would guess that you are presenting yourself in a manner that sets off red flags in the minds of people that match up with above scenarios.


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## Mr Knucklehead (May 31, 2014)

Contractors are a weird bunch, especially the ones who are comfortably busy. They pick and choose because they can and sometimes they just don't feel like working for you.


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## bob hutson (Mar 16, 2013)

this is what brought me to this site, I think all the free stuff is nuts my time /gas ect isn't free If your really going to do the job paying should not be a problem. two sides of the coin on this I hope is gonna come around nobody gives away time in any other trade.....


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## Seattle GC (Nov 9, 2014)

To each there own, in our circle we do not charge as we know who gets the calls every time. In the end we are always busy and every one is paid well. We typically are getting 8 out of 10 bids with our customers, my subs know when we call everybody jumps, everybody puts forth there best number, and we all benefit being in demand year round. For those that feel they can't afford to write a bid with out a fee smells like they are writing way to many bids for not enough return. Good luck


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

Seattle GC said:


> For those that feel they can't afford to write a bid with out a fee smells like they are writing way to many bids for not enough return. Good luck


Or maybe they're pre-qualifying their leads so they don't waste the little time they do have available :whistling.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

Lugnut1968 said:


> Usually trying to pay the subs about half of what the work normally brings.


"Can ya help me out on this job bro? I'm pretty tight on this one and they're hosing me, but I've got other jobs lined up that...."


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## Sunset Designs (Dec 15, 2014)

When most of you say you charge for a quote, are you talking smaller jobs or do you charge a fee no matter what the project is? I have never charged a customer for a quote commercial or residential but 90% of my work is referral or repeat clients so I don't feel the need.


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

It really depends. Some guys charge no matter what, some guys only for larger jobs. For me, it's kind of a case by case decision. If it's someone I've done work for before and have a good working relationship with, they normally don't get charged for a quote (unless it's going to take up a lot of my time to prepare it, in which case they generally don't have any issue paying for it).
If it's someone I've never worked with before, and the job is significant size meaning it will take me some time to prepare an accurate quote, I charge. Considering I don't do a lot of small jobs, most of the time I do work for a new client, I charge.


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## Big Shoe (Jun 16, 2008)

Peachllc said:


> I have a lot of contracts and looking for subs to do them...


I think you should have that part taken care of before you got deposits from your customers.

Sounds kinda scary to me.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

CO762 said:


> "Can ya help me out on this job bro? I'm pretty tight on this one and they're hosing me, but I've got other jobs lined up that...."


and that guy is driving a brand new fully loaded truck.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Peachllc said:


> Hi guys, and gals,
> 
> 
> My name is Reza and I own a company which does comercial and public projects.
> ...


Youre probably not paying well enough? Keeping too much for yourself?


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

john5mt said:


> Youre probably not paying well enough? Keeping too much for yourself?


Keeping too much for yourself? 

Commie.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

Seattle GC said:


> To each there own, in our circle we do not charge as we know who gets the calls every time. In the end we are always busy and every one is paid well. We typically are getting 8 out of 10 bids with our customers, my subs know when we call everybody jumps, everybody puts forth there best number, and we all benefit being in demand year round. For those that feel they can't afford to write a bid with out a fee smells like they are writing way to many bids for not enough return. Good luck



If you're getting 80% of your jobs you're not charging enough.

I've never wanted to be the cheap guy, sell the job on quality not price.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

Metro M & L said:


> Keeping too much for yourself?
> 
> Commie.



No. Good business. If you pay people too little you will always have problems finding people who "want to work". People who want to work gravitate towards people who are willing to pay more. Some of these generals want to do next to nothing, pay the lowest prices to subs, back charge them for everything, and charge the customer top market value. If they took less home and compensated their employees and subs fairly they wouldn't have the turn around problems with employees and subs. If you pay better and have a good relationship with your subs they will drop what they're doing to try and take care of you. 

That's free market voluntarism capitalism. Complete opposite of being a commie


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## Keeyter (Sep 18, 2010)

This is the whole reason we are searching for intelligent life on Mars, or searches here have failed to find people that want to work


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

john5mt said:


> No. Good business. If you pay people too little you will always have problems finding people who "want to work". People who want to work gravitate towards people who are willing to pay more. Some of these generals want to do next to nothing, pay the lowest prices to subs, back charge them for everything, and charge the customer too market value. If they took less home and compensated their employees and subs fairly they wouldn't have the turn around problems with employees and subs. If you pay better and have a good relationship with your subs they will drop what they're doing to try and take care of you.
> 
> That's free market voluntarism capitalism. Complete opposite of being a commie



I have had the opposite happen. I pay my guys well. But twice I've had guys just not show up, day here day there, because they made enough money in a couple days a week to live off of. Crazy I know, but true story.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

jlsconstruction said:


> I have had the opposite happen. I pay my guys well. But twice I've had guys just not show up, day here day there, because they made enough money in a couple days a week to live off of. Crazy I know, but true story.


Guess there's not a fool proof strategy out


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

jlsconstruction said:


> I have had the opposite happen. I pay my guys well. But twice I've had guys just not show up, day here day there, because they made enough money in a couple days a week to live off of. Crazy I know, but true story.


Ive had this happen as well.


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## Tom Struble (Mar 2, 2007)

tax wise your better off just workin 4 days a week..:whistling


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

john5mt said:


> No. Good business. If you pay people too little you will always have problems finding people who "want to work". People who want to work gravitate towards people who are willing to pay more. Some of these generals want to do next to nothing, pay the lowest prices to subs, back charge them for everything, and charge the customer top market value. If they took less home and compensated their employees and subs fairly they wouldn't have the turn around problems with employees and subs. If you pay better and have a good relationship with your subs they will drop what they're doing to try and take care of you.
> 
> That's free market voluntarism capitalism. Complete opposite of being a commie


our lowest paying customers are usually the most demanding. go figure.


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## CarpenterSFO (Dec 12, 2012)

jlsconstruction said:


> I have had the opposite happen. I pay my guys well. But twice I've had guys just not show up, day here day there, because they made enough money in a couple days a week to live off of. Crazy I know, but true story.


Yep, a year ago I gave a good employee a raise. He'd been working hard, learning, getting better, taking on some new responsibilities. He clearly took the raise as a reason to work less.


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## tedanderson (May 19, 2010)

CarpenterSFO said:


> Yep, a year ago I have a good employee a raise. He'd been working hard, learning, getting better, taking on some new responsibilities. He clearly took the raise as a reason to work less.


Same thing happened here but in one of my other family-owned businesses. We had a guy that was perfectly happy doing his job for what he was making. He did his job better than anyone else in the office but the mistake that we made was that WE were the ones that decided that he needed to be promoted and WE were the ones that decided that he needed to make more money. He was indifferent about it until we gave it to him.


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## man00 (Jan 25, 2014)

If no ballpark quote, I look elsewhere. There plenty Carpenters that will give you one


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## thehockeydman (Dec 19, 2012)

man00 said:


> If no ballpark quote, I look elsewhere. There plenty Carpenters that will give you one


Yea. And there's plenty of carpenters who know better than to give ballpark quotes because they have an understanding of the additional variables that factor into a job, which cannot be discovered without a site visit and detailed quote preparation :no:.

Only time I'll ballpark is if it's a fairly standard and straightforward job. And I'll always say something along the lines of "Assuming there's no major issues that would get in the way of me performing the work...."


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## Seattle GC (Nov 9, 2014)

Is that an extra fee for your quote to provide a ballpark hockey man? Lol. I do agree with you, I rarely ever give ball parks as they always seem to bite me in the ass down the road.


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

Was doing a complete exterior remoel last year plus adding a 2 car garage.Roof was tear [email protected] guys didn't show so I called a laid off electrician I knew.Had his son,DIL and new baby with them.Getting evicted.Asked them if they wanted to work the day.Left the job to pick them up.Took them home after work and paid them each $15 cashan hour and he wanted to beat my ass.Said he make $30 hr.Explained to him he was working as a laborer not an electrician and I also gave his boy some work so they could pay the bills.Still wanted to kick my ass.Called me three times that night raising hell with me.
I don't even try to help people out anymore.


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## jlsconstruction (Apr 26, 2011)

mako1 said:


> Was doing a complete exterior remoel last year plus adding a 2 car garage.Roof was tear [email protected] guys didn't show so I called a laid off electrician I knew.Had his son,DIL and new baby with them.Getting evicted.Asked them if they wanted to work the day.Left the job to pick them up.Took them home after work and paid them each $15 cashan hour and he wanted to beat my ass.Said he make $30 hr.Explained to him he was working as a laborer not an electrician and I also gave his boy some work so they could pay the bills.Still wanted to kick my ass.Called me three times that night raising hell with me.
> I don't even try to help people out anymore.



Seems like it's always sparkys that do that. 

I had a friend that's an electrician who got fired for stealing wire. Asked me for a job so he could pay the bills. Got in a fight with me on the job about $12 an hour. ( we were doing a whole house remodel, they were putting the deck on, and I was in the house and I heard him say he didn't make enough money to carry boards. He was hired as a laborer because he knew nothing about carpentry. 

Long story short that was his last day. Lost a friend over it to, and that's why I don't help anyone out or hire friends. He joined the high line Union. It's a good place for him


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## mako1 (Sep 1, 2013)

This guy was friend too.Lived next to my grandma befor she passed and used to take her some meals and look out for her when I wasn't around.I paid him some for that and bought him some beers.
Business is business.


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## asgoodasdead (Aug 30, 2013)

jlsconstruction said:


> Seems like it's always sparkys that do that.
> 
> I had a friend that's an electrician who got fired for stealing wire. Asked me for a job so he could pay the bills. Got in a fight with me on the job about $12 an hour. ( we were doing a whole house remodel, they were putting the deck on, and I was in the house and I heard him say he didn't make enough money to carry boards. He was hired as a laborer because he knew nothing about carpentry.
> 
> Long story short that was his last day. Lost a friend over it to, and that's why I don't help anyone out or hire friends. He joined the high line Union. It's a good place for him


the best was during the 'recession'. we stayed busier than most people(by dropping our prices) and had guys calling us left and right BEGGING to come in for $15/hr(guys who we paid $20-30/hr before the crash) then of course we'd bring them in and keep them busy 6 days a week after they had been sitting home for 2 months and after a week or 2 they'd demand more money


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## KennMacMoragh (Sep 16, 2008)

I find about 1 in 5 subs answer phones. I don't get it, I mean they must be doing good if they don't have to answer the phone. I answer my phone even when I'm backed up. But when I find a sub who answers the phone, they will be the ones getting repeat business from me.


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## john5mt (Jan 21, 2007)

KennMacMoragh said:


> I find about 1 in 5 subs answer phones. I don't get it, I mean they must be doing good if they don't have to answer the phone. I answer my phone even when I'm backed up. But when I find a sub who answers the phone, they will be the ones getting repeat business from me.


Yep. Plumbers are the worst for that. Ill have a guy do a job for me then call him for the next one and never get a return call. May have found a guy this year though :thumbsup:


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