# steps with extruded brick



## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

In my area steps of modular brick riser 6 5/8" and tolerance as JBM stated in variation. Over size brick 7 5/8" same tolerance/ variance. Concrete commercial steps on post 7 5/8" or equal dimension necessary to achieve the top elevation that is being worked to.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

I lay out exterior steps with a 1/4" fall on every tread to add to the riser. thus 7 3/8" maximum risers...<7" risers preferred by older customers.

Anything with more than 18" or three steps is supposed to have a hand rail.

Final offering, a airplane mitre, with the two little pieces replaced with any solid material in the boneyard....


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Bought a little more time for three brick steps. Owner wanted a repair,not a complete tear out. Never been a fan of cored brick,give me a solid with a frog any day. This job really drove the point home. The risers were cored,threads solids. Both brick were made by Belden. The cored brick were their red dye skin 10 hole. The threads were their matching reds (as close to smooth as you would want a paver) Bottom line,the cored brick literally looked like Rice Crispys when the threads were removed. The pavers did not have a scratch on them.


Cored brick and steps are a recipe for disaster, no matter how you cut it in my book.


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## jazzwillie (May 15, 2015)

I personally don't really like the concept of extruded brick. To me they provide a cavity for water to collect. I do know that you can get extruded brick with the same textures but without the cores. I've ordered small quantities for the ends of rowlocks under windows and textured on the top for use on corners. That usually is just if the manufacturer doesn't have a factory corner for whatever the situation is. Rowlock or soldier corners. I am a huge fan of factory corners.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

jazzwillie said:


> I personally don't really like the concept of extruded brick. To me they provide a cavity for water to collect.




:thumbsup:


A man after my own heart.:thumbsup:


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## concretemasonry (Dec 1, 2006)

You cannot avoid extruded brick because existing brick were selected by the original owner. - Virtually impossible to find a good match, so scrounging and recycling is necessary.

The cost of production for specialty clay brick is sky-high because of the low volume of specialty units. The manufacturers/suppliers are limited because the native clay used dictates the fired color. That is part of the problem with matching old with new because the current shrinking volume of brick nationally used and available clays has caused many manufacturers to go out of business.


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## jazzwillie (May 15, 2015)

I'm referring more to a new build. In a restoration or rehab project you inevitably end up at the architectural salvage. In a larger new build project with 80,000 - over 150,000 brick the cost is usually minimal and really makes the project look nice. Especially on odd angle corners or radius walls that return to a straight wall. That's just me.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

I need some clarification. You'll are saying you don't build steps with holes? "Extruded" brick?
Smallest jobs we take have 150k brick and we've never used special shaped brick on them or over a million. No matter what configuration the walls are.
Been laying steps with regular brick 3 hole 10 hole 8 hole so on for 50 years. Good Lord willing we be building the same for another 30 I pray. The water issue is or could be from poor craftsmanship? Never built steps out of all solid brick. Must be missing something. Please let class/ schooling begin.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

[email protected], In my universe there is a set-up charge for every Non-standard, non standard special, the Manufacturers have a catalog of preferred specials, As the solids and specials generally take much longer to manufacture then the deeply cored stretchers, they need to ordered months ahead of time, half a year or more is recommended by our local makers, and an unit cost around 3 to 5 dollars isn't cheap in my book, but they can fix some big architectural boo-boos and lend an air of style and gravitas to a building.

Heavy C @28: Holey brick steps are guaranteed to fail here from freeze thaw issues, North facing steps are doomed to an early death.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

Built them in N.Y. Buffalo/Niagara Falls area. Also know as snow belt. Never ever had a failure? I'm clearly missing something. You build your steps with stretcher course than top with rowlock? What difference do holes being in brick make? Only thing I can figure is possibly your building steps reverse with rowlock on bottom top with header course?


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

Fouthgeneration said:


> Heavy C @28: Holey brick steps are guaranteed to fail here from freeze thaw issues, North facing steps are doomed to an early death.




Have to agree with that 100%. It is not a matter of if cored brick in steps will fail,it is just a matter of when they will fail.


Even in wall situations I have seen both cored brick and solid brick spall. The percentage of spalling of cored to solid is way,way more pronounced with the cored brick.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

When I get a spare minute I will take another ride down residential memory lane and snap some photos of steps I built dating back to the 80's. Then we will continue this ridiculous discussion. As we all know a picture is worth it's weight in gold.
fjn with your concern as to spalling when is the last time you've veneered a house with solids/ frogs? My opinion craftsmanship is the variable factor. Still have all my family up north so can't promise photos of steps prior to the 80's. This is probably the oddest conversation concerning brick work I've ever had.


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## JBM (Mar 31, 2011)

Bushes kill steps regardless of cored or solids. No moving air, bricks fall apart.


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## fjn (Aug 17, 2011)

heavyc said:


> fjn with your concern as to sprawling when is the last time you've veneered a house with solids/ frogs? .





The issue is not when was the last time anyone did anything. The crux of the issue is that the life cycle of solid brick more often than not exceeds that of cored brick.


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## jazzwillie (May 15, 2015)

In the last 8 months I have ordered over 500k and never waited more than 6 weeks for a load of brick to hit the site. Special shapes and all. I live in central Ohio and there are several manufacturing plants within 4 hours of our shop. Including Belden, Glen-Gerry, Redland, Bowerston Shale, Hanson and several others. Maybe those who are don't live in close proximity to a plant would have to wait a bit longer. On that same note I have ordered brick from Kansas City and still had them delivered in less than 6 weeks from the date of order.

If special shapes are included in an order they are made at the same time as the others. In all the brick plant tours I have taken I have brought up special shapes to the engineer who accompanies the tour and it has never come up that they would make them at a different time as the rest of the order and taking longer than the rest of the order. The material is harvested at the same time, the molds are ready at the same time and they are fired in the kiln at the same time or same session. Their cost is directly related to the cost of mold and quantity ordered.

Regarding cost, yes the are more expensive. I never stated they weren't. What I did say is the cost is minimal if you are ordering large quantities. If your order is $100,000.00 then $4,000.00 spent on factory pieces in order to avoid using mitered corners is worth it. If estimated in the bid of the project (which they are typically specified that if you can't achieve the look without cutting you have to anyway) and in my opinion gives that project a more clean look to it when everything is washed and finished. To me multiple stories of mitered corners doesn't look nearly as good as factory corners.


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

fjn said:


> The issue is not when was the last time anyone did anything. The crux of the issue is that the life cycle of solid brick more often than not exceeds that of cored brick.


If something hasn't been done prior than how can a comparison transpire? 
In our life cycle I'm convinced either medium will surely exceed our existence in this time and space. Unless of course your time machine is functional and in existence? :laughing:


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## heavyc (Jul 2, 2013)

jw. Please keep all the Hansons in Ohio in Ohio. Garbage wouldn't give a wooden nickel for 1,000,000. Other brands not used in our area. We do cookie cutter commercial buildings with an occasional 45° the ACOE is infatuated with CJ's. Thus we cut and place CJ at 45° intersections which are seldom at most.


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## Fouthgeneration (Jan 7, 2014)

Jazzville @ The local Glen Gerry plant doesn't play by your rules, here the extra thickness of clay requires extra days and weeks in the kiln, so they CAN'T be fire simultaneously.

Surely you realize a solid brick cost more because it takes longer to fire?

Our automated kilns group products to fire by the time required, schedules that are planned years in advance with gaps for maintenance and style shifts.

Post a plant that will provide 100,000 as yet un-manufactured units in a month please, I'll start trucking their product here.:no:

Further issues occur with matching the shades of the separately produced units to the stretchers. 

Jazzville are you using your grandpa's office computer again? Tell him to quit leaving his passwords on post it notes on the monitor.


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