# Argon gas in windows



## AbeBarker (Jan 3, 2007)

I just looked at window replacement job tonight. The HomeOwner told me not to get Argon Gas because He heard "they cloud up over time". Does anybody else think this to be a threat. I'm nervouse because I've installed so many windows recently with Argon gas.


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## Skydawggy (May 10, 2007)

The HO is misinformed. Argon gas does not cloud up over time. What can happen is cheap windows warp and this can cause the seal to fail. Also if the spacer isn't sealed correctly, it can fail. 

As the argon gas escapes, it is replaced with air containing moisture. In the summer, the warm air from outside comes in contact with the interior glass and condensation forms. The opposite happens in the winter.

In fact, the customer is more likely to experience condensation forming on the glass without argon gas, than with it. The reason is that heat will absorb into the glass and then radiate across the air space between the 2 panes. Argon gas, which is about 5 times the density of the air, is used as insulation to mitigate the probability of this occuring.

Inform the customer that the solution is to purchase a good quality window with a long term factory warranty on the glass seal.


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## dvon104 (Jun 23, 2007)

UV Rays will break argon gas molecules down ...and then no more argon gas ....this will take about 5-7 yrs ...and then those window will be just like the others ...only cost more...but if they want argon ...they want argon

Argon gas is only for increasing energy efficency ....condensation only happens with a seal failure...no other cause


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Abe, it is not an option for you. MA requires a .35 rating for your replacement windows. You could go with krypton gas.

BTW, most window companies have 20+ year warranties on the seals, some even have a lifetime warranty.


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## dougchips (Apr 23, 2006)

Skydawggy you get around, I see you on some of the other forums.


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## Skydawggy (May 10, 2007)

dvon104 said:


> UV Rays will break argon gas molecules down ...and then no more argon gas ....this will take about 5-7 yrs ...and then those window will be just like the others.


Considering argon gas is chemically inert to UV radiation, I have to ask if you have a link to where you got this info from or can you tell how you know this?


.


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## dvon104 (Jun 23, 2007)

Skydawggy said:


> Considering argon gas is chemically inert to UV radiation, I have to ask if you have a link to where you got this info from or can you tell how you know this?
> 
> 
> .


that...would be a NO on the link ...however I did attend a 3 window training seminar last year and this was brought up....

maybe I better stick with what I know to be absoulute...I was only going back to what was taught by the instructor...the window manufacturer...I am going to call and ask my window rep ...that same question...I will be back and let you know what he says......

those damn sales rep's....:whistling


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## Skydawggy (May 10, 2007)

I'd love to hear his explaination. Argon gas is one of 18 Noble gasses that naturally occur in the atmoshere. In fact argon gas makes up about 1% of the atmosphere. One of the reasons it is used in windows is because of its' high stability due to its' "Valence Shell", an outer layer of electrons. This makes it extremely unlikely that the molecule will gain or lose electrons. And extremely unlikely the molecule can be broken down by UV radiation.

Its' probably a case where the factory rep misunderstood what someone else told him. Still, its' pretty unprofessional of him to pass on untrue information to you, who has taken their own time to learn more about what you sell, without checking the info out. 

Do you mind me asking what window manuf. this was?


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## dvon104 (Jun 23, 2007)

Skydawggy said:


> I'd love to hear his explaination. Argon gas is one of 18 Noble gasses that naturally occur in the atmoshere. In fact argon gas makes up about 1% of the atmosphere. One of the reasons it is used in windows is because of its' high stability due to its' "Valence Shell", an outer layer of electrons. This makes it extremely unlikely that the molecule will gain or lose electrons. And extremely unlikely the molecule can be broken down by UV radiation.
> 
> Its' probably a case where the factory rep misunderstood what someone else told him. Still, its' pretty unprofessional of him to pass on untrue information to you, who has taken their own time to learn more about what you sell, without checking the info out.
> 
> Do you mind me asking what window manuf. this was?


it was Peachtree/Weathershield....and I cant get hold of him...go figure cant get a hold of a sales rep...anyhow...I did call my MW rep ..he said he would check with his tech...dept


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## Joasis (Mar 28, 2006)

Wouldn't be the first time a rep would pretend knowledge he didn't actually possess. 

The essentials

* Name: argon
* Symbol: Ar
* Atomic number: 18
* Atomic weight: 39.948 (1) g r
* CAS Registry ID: 7440-37-1



* Group number: 18
* Group name: Noble gas
* Period number: 3
* Block: p-block

Argon is not made up of other substances, it is in atomic form (if pure) already, and therefore, cannot be broken down by UV or any other means except by splitting atoms.

I have noticed that we are starting to see "fogging" of thermal windows from older installs now...probably do to the seal breaking down....we did a picture window on a house a few years ago that everytime a truck passed by, the vibration was noticeable. I am sure that contributed to the failure, and this was a thermal window that must have been 20 years old.


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## Skydawggy (May 10, 2007)

It is correct that most of the "fogging" is due to seal failures. We are starting to see more and more of them as well as vinyl "yellowing" and becoming brittle in the cheap windows people installed years ago thinking they would be just as good as the better quality windows. 

Too bad...... so sad.


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## skylands (Dec 10, 2005)

I don't disagree with any of you about cheap windows. The problem is that the vinyl window companies bring these cheap sales guys on themselves. They simply don't market the merits of better grade windows. 

When someone calls me requesting an estimate for vinyl windows, I will only go AFTER they've gotten two other estimates. I will decline the opportunity if A) it's a HUD sponsored job and B) if they've gotten 3 or 4 other estimates.

HO's have told me that other contractors have said "argon breaks down and fogs the window", "argon is a scam", "argon can blow up", "if the seal fails inside the house the argon will leak into the home", and I'm sure I'm forgetting other ones. One HO said a contractor told them that there is no such thing as a good or bad vinyl window. He said vinyl is vinyl. These claims are being broadcast by the guys selling windows for 199 bucks installed.


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