# just leave the job site????



## tazmanian (Jul 22, 2010)

okay - demo'd bathroom and found water valve had slow leak..............told homeowner that there was a leak - she said well it wasnt there before you touched it - told her it had to be fixed and it would cost about 175 she told me she wasnt going to pay for it and could i fix it - i told her i was not licensed to do plumbing.............duh........ WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO?:whistling


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## Gough (May 1, 2010)

Hire the plmbers that I normally work with , have them fix it, pay them, finish the job, then add this client to my "Fecal Roster".


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

I would shut up and fix it. Can't be a big deal can it?
A "General Contractor" of "Bathrooms and Kitchens" doesn't know how to fix a drip?


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## woodworkbykirk (Sep 17, 2008)

been there, but wasnt kicked off the site for that... basically explain to her how its very common in old kitchens and bathrooms, that over time the pipes slowly errode....

as for me getting kicked off site.. i told off a homeowner who wanted to play 20 questions every time she came into her home... same 20 questions if she left and came back 5 times a day.. she wanted the new trim to match the old... hasnt been available in 15 years.. found a similar trim installed it she flipped that it wasnt exact


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## tazmanian (Jul 22, 2010)

YES i can fix it in my sleep - no problem but license specifies no plumbing...so if something happens down the line - due to plumbing i am not covered. same with electrical - not covered - that is the law - has nothing to do with can or cant!:thumbsup:


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

so call the plumber and have him fix it. we have had this issue several times. i dont even talk to the HO about it, we just call the plumber, get it fixed asap, and move on. when i see the HO i tell them it was slowly leaking and we fixed it. end of story.
doesnt anyone put a few bux in their general conditions for this kind of thing?


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## A. Spruce (Aug 6, 2010)

tazmanian said:


> YES i can fix it in my sleep - no problem but license specifies no plumbing...so if something happens down the line - due to plumbing i am not covered. same with electrical - not covered - that is the law - has nothing to do with can or cant!:thumbsup:


What's the point of being a General if the AHJ isn't going to let you do anything?:blink:


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## Warren (Feb 19, 2005)

Whole bathroom demo and didn't allow for even one leaky valve? What did you call out in the contract?


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

tazmanian said:


> okay - demo'd bathroom and found water valve had slow leak..............told homeowner that there was a leak - she said well it wasnt there before you touched it - told her it had to be fixed and it would cost about 175 she told me she wasnt going to pay for it and could i fix it - i told her i was not licensed to do plumbing.............duh........ WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO?:whistling


Seriously? 



Apply one of these next time, turn clock wise a quarter turn, move on. 










If you can't manage this minor issue, get the F out of the bathroom business.

I was at the plumbing supply house yesterday and some guy walked in and wanted a drain extender. Went on for a half hour as the counter guy just looked at him like he was from mars.

Just another hack tiling over a terrazo shower pan and wanted to know if there where the drain extender was he could buy. 

Hacks, hacks and more hacks, running amok.


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> YES i can fix it in my sleep - no problem but license specifies no plumbing...so if something happens down the line - due to plumbing i am not covered. same with electrical - not covered - that is the law - has nothing to do with can or cant!


Are ya chittin' me?

Then when you go to bed tonight after you say your prayers - fix it.
Have you never exceeded a speed limit or rolled through a stop sign or walked on somebodies grass?

Playin' by the rules is one thing but fixing a small leak to save the cost of calling a plumber just makes good sense if you are qualified to do so.

I'll bet Finley is correct! Did you even try that, before you spilled your guts to the homeowner?

Why would anyone even consider "leaving a job" over such a thing? That's just plain silly.


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## tazmanian (Jul 22, 2010)

all points taken - and will just do it in the future. good advice from all......
just want to see what you guys would do - i did just fix it and moved on but she pissed me off ---------------------------
how many times would you change out a light for a homeowner before you start to charge them more?


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> i did just fix it and moved on but she pissed me off --


OK, now that's something I can relate to. Just kill her.


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## Doubleoh7 (Dec 3, 2009)

Maybe you should consider adding some language to your contract to address these issues beforehand? Just a thought. It is also a good idea to sit down with the client and verbally explain key items in your contract such as exclusions. I have been pretty lucky with the customers have had.


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## festerized (May 19, 2007)

In the future have a clause in your contract that covers hidden expenses such as water leaks, buried electrical boxes, termites, rotted wood etc.

I have seen this same problem with CT members and other contractors in the field. 

Here’s a trick for all who care, you don’t have to state an un-known clause in your proposal, 
but by all means have it in your contract


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## tazmanian (Jul 22, 2010)

again all good guys....................still learning.....instead of stating install light - will say install one light - any more will be charged 125 or so....has to be done and spelled out for all the f-n fools.........................that want something for nuttin.....


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## mikeswoods (Oct 11, 2008)

This is just nuts--------Why wasn't updating the plumbing included? How were you planning to add drywall or a new vanity with the old shutoffs still in place? what about the old shower mixer valve?


I would think that some plumbing is required in a bathroom 'gut' and remodel----I've never done a bath without updating shut offs,mixer and faucets---

This question sound fishy.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

tazmanian said:


> all points taken - and will just do it in the future. good advice from all......
> just want to see what you guys would do - i did just fix it and moved on but she pissed me off ---------------------------
> how many times would you change out a light for a homeowner before you start to charge them more?


I think all you need to do is have a sliding scale for hidden defects. You should have a hidden defects clause in your contract but you have to figure out when to use it or not.

You find that somebody cut through 3 floor joists and you'll need to tear things open and fix them first. That's when you show the customer and talk about a change order.

You have a leaky shut off valve.

That I would recommend you just take care of. Show the customer and say, no problem we will take care of it, no extra costs.

You can be in the right but appear wrong in the eyes of your cusotmer sometime. Long term you probably are better off not sticking to contract language verbatim in every circumstance. Build up a little good will when you can. People remember the little things you do for them if they are decent people.


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

Mike Finley said:


> I think all you need to do is have a sliding scale for hidden defects. You should have a hidden defects clause in your contract but you have to figure out when to use it or not.
> 
> You find that somebody cut through 3 floor joists and you'll need to tear things open and fix them first. That's when you show the customer and talk about a change order.
> 
> ...



Agree 100%, pick your fights but always look for a way to prove yourself above the rest. 

My contract has a "behind the wall provision". :thumbsup: 

Gotta love those plumbers!


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## Remodelor (Nov 5, 2010)

Very few jurisdiction's plumbing codes are so strict as to forbid the replacement of a valve. Most codes usually allow somewhere between 4' - 10' of new plumbing lines, supply and/or drain before a permit is required. Often the same thing goes for electrical. These codes have remodelers and handymen in mind, for small repairs or adjustments that aren't complicated or require vast knowledge.

And even if they were super strict, sometimes you have to use something called postconventional morality to determine what you should do. Laws aren't always right. Logic would dictate that if you have a strong chance of avoiding the consequences of breaking a law, and the outcome is favorable to all parties, then the law, in that case, is either wrong or unnecessary.

So basically, can you shut the water off, replace the valve correctly and turn it back on? If so, just do it and make the customer happy :thumbsup:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

tazmanian said:


> ...but she pissed me off....


Boy, if this pissed you off this early in the job it's gonna be a wild ride.:jester::laughing::laughing:


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## Crawl-Dog (Dec 25, 2010)

bingo


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## Bud Cline (Feb 12, 2006)

> Gough: "The trick is to take away something positive from the experience."


That's what I say! Maybe you could go through her bedroom drawers and find her jewelry stash. Take that away. That's positive.


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## QuarterDozen (Jan 13, 2011)

Your seriously considering walking off the job over this? I wish replacing a leaky valve was the biggest problem I faced on a jobsite!


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## tazmanian (Jul 22, 2010)

little pisses me off - it is the ho that pisses me off !!!! ignorance is bliss and they are in heaven


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## JEMSELECTRIC (Jan 6, 2011)

tazmanian said:


> okay - demo'd bathroom and found water valve had slow leak..............told homeowner that there was a leak - she said well it wasnt there before you touched it - told her it had to be fixed and it would cost about 175 she told me she wasnt going to pay for it and could i fix it - i told her i was not licensed to do plumbing.............duh........ WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO?:whistling


I would finish the job, if it's only $175 bucks. I don't know what type of customer they are but get the job done by a plumber and finish the work. You don't want the reputation that comes with those actions. Add that job to the crappy job experience list, but still keep the customer happy. Hope you figure it out.


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## LibertyConstruc (Jan 19, 2011)

Don't know your local ordanices but you failed to mention what valve. Being in the bathroom sounds like a simple supply valve. if you can't sweat a fitting they sell compression valves. Well the leak stopped Finnish the job. If anything develpos down the line well I never touched the valve so call a plumber lady It works bopth ways. Sometimes for small little things just fix it and go onb. If I was the customer and you hit me with this I would never hire you again


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## scott72901 (Jan 5, 2009)

You think it cost $175 to replace a shutoff valve? And you are a GC???? The part is about $10, and the labor takes about 15 minutes--if you know what you're doing that is...


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## HandyHails (Feb 28, 2009)

I could see $175 for a plumber to come out to the job site and do it for you. Especially if you are in a rural area. For a remodeling contractor its just wasteful, and to present it to homeowners as a surprise and charge extra for a shutoff is questionable practice. If there is no access panel, you should not have shutoffs in the wall anyway. If your doing a whole remodel ALWAYS spec in for new valves throughout. That is often 7 valves for the shower, double sink, and toilet. Always use quarter turn valves. Every full gut and redo job every time.

That being said, if I open the wall and there is enough rot that a fair amount of the framing and subfloor has been damaged and needs redone, then that is a change order and easily shown to a homeowner and signed off for before proceeding. That is generally discovered on day one of the project during demo.

Live and learn.


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## blackbear (Feb 29, 2008)

Take a sledge to the pipe and walk away, that will show her. 












On a serious note, eating sht from customers is all part of the game. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Change it and move on.


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## smalpierre (Jan 19, 2011)

Mike Finley said:


> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you ... Mr. Finley!!! I'm no plumber, but I regularly run into minor plumbing issues that I just fix without question. If the customer is being an anoos about a 50 year old valve leaking, I'll fix it, and as a previous poster suggested - to the fecal roster with her!

I've been using my adjustable, or open end wrenches - been meaning to put one of those in my "box of the toilet mechanic". It looks quite handy!

Oh, my license says no plumbing or something like that, but I'm pretty sure there is a 4' rule here, geared toward us remodelers. I should look that up for sure though, since I work anything from the p-trap up, and I'll replace a shutoff valve and anything beyond that - whatever's visible. I like to be 100% legit, but call a plumber for a faucet? I think not. It's how I got the nickname "Toilet Mechanic" from a friend of mine.

I don't like to do things that would get me called a hack, but I've called my plumber on things like this, and he's told me to save a buck or two, and do it myself. I seriously doubt he'd tell me to do anything illegal.


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## CJA (Jan 26, 2011)

It just needs to be fixed. $175 is cheaper than losing a customer and not being able to finish a job. 

I replaced some cabinets and countertops in a clients house and had the water shutoff valve closed and all lines disconnected. I reached down to ensure the valve was tight before pulling the sink cabinet out and the whole [email protected] valve came blasting off. Popped me right in the head. Needless to say the kitchen was flooded before my helper could find the shutoff valve outside. The customer was sitting on the couch when it happened and was pissed. I went and picked up a wet vac while I had my helper mopping. After getting back and cleanied up the water, I looked at the valve and there was no sodder on either the pipe or the valve. I pointed it out to the HO and fixed the pipe at my own expense. Better that than her try to come back to me over mold issues. The bottom of this cabinet was gone due to water damage so I'm assuming it was from this pipe leaking as well.


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