# Can A/C be installed in home with boiler system and NO duct work?



## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

Guy I work with asked me, and I have no idea...was going to call my sub later and see what he says, but just wanted a heads up and what can be done, what has been done, etc....

He's buying his grandmother's farm house, typical two story farm house, she just had a H/E boiler system installed a fwe yrs ago I guess, and he wants to keep that system since it heats the home very well/evenly, and is dirt cheap to operate...but says since he's a fat boy, he HAS to have central air LOL!!

So what do you guys do in these situations? Duct work will obviously have to be installed, that is given, but he does not want a forced air furnace of any kind..


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

A central A/C can be installed. often the air handler is installed in the attic, and supplies for the first floor are ran through the closets on the second floor.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

What about a mini split system?


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

IHI said:


> ...but he does not want a forced air furnace of any kind..


I don't want to be short and fat, but what I don't want and what I can have are two separate issues!

He will need duct work with an air handler or a mini split system - "old and two stories..." several of them. And several $$$$$.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

DaVinciRemodel said:


> I don't want to be short and fat, but what I don't want and what I can have are two separate issues!
> 
> He will need duct work with an air handler or a mini split system - "old and two stories..." several of them. And several $$$$$.


Oh no, he's a big farm boy, born, breed, and corn fed through and through. 

I assumed it would be spendy system just for the fact of installing new duct work in a pre-existing finished home. Honestly, we've never ran into this situation in all these years, so i've never gave it any thought, so figured I'd ask around and get some ideas on what to expect so I can give him a honest answer.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

What about a high velocity system. I think they use 2" ducts which are a lot easier to get through walls.


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## DaVinciRemodel (Oct 7, 2009)

IHI said:


> Oh no, he's a big farm boy, born, breed, and corn fed through and through.


Block of ice and a fan should work then :laughing:


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## tgeb (Feb 9, 2006)

I had similar done in my home.

Just like Beenthere described, handler in the attic, drops through the closets.


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## svronthmve (Aug 3, 2008)

Just remember, unless its been reno'd, older farmhouses very often didn't have closets......


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

Leo G said:


> What about a high velocity system. I think they use 2" ducts which are a lot easier to get through walls.


They're very expensive upfront units. An d the supply tubes are also very expensive.


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## Leo G (May 12, 2005)

Retrofitting a whole house AC system is going to be expensive no matter what you do with it.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

beenthere said:


> They're very expensive upfront units. An d the supply tubes are also very expensive.


Yeah.... but they are incredibly efficient and are the best solution to running ductwork in an old home without a lot of closet and storage nooks to hide regular sized ductwork in. It's a heck of a lot easier to locate a two inch bendible duct, than it is a six or eight inch supply duct.

If he wants comfortable cooling throughout his home, a high velocity system is a perfect solution. If he wants to go "cheaper,".... he's still going to need an air handler, condensing unit and a whole duct system. So he'll already be spending a ton of money anyway. AND, not be guaranteed that his air flow balance (so critical to comfortable A/C) will be any good - because of the compromises made retrofitting standard duct work.

With a high velocity system, duct locations aren't as critical. Not nearly as important as a regular system. So you can place the HV ducts where ever you can get them and have a much better chance to have a very comfortable home. Plus, if you do need to place a HV run somewhere inconvenient, they are much easier to enclose and hide.


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## IHI (Dec 25, 2004)

I gave him a run down about what everybody has offered, and bascially said, at this point, once you buy the house, your just going to have to call some contractors for quotes, listen to what they have to tell you as far as recommendations, price points, how invasive installations will be, etc...and make a descion off that..but none will be cheap LOL!!


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

IHI said:


> I gave him a run down about what everybody has offered, and bascially said, at this point, once you buy the house, your just going to have to call some contractors for quotes, listen to what they have to tell you as far as recommendations, price points, how invasive installations will be, etc...and make a descion off that..but none will be cheap LOL!!


Calling in a professional contractor.... _*ALWAYS*_ a good idea.


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## RichHolcomb (Mar 26, 2011)

I am doing an entire whole farm house renovation right now. This home had an existing boiler system with no air. We installed a complete duct system in the first and second floor, installed an air hander in the basement, and cooling unit outside. Even with the most of the house opened up the job was fairly complicated. I could not imagine trying to install air in an old house without it being opened up.

Rich


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

CompleteW&D said:


> Yeah.... but they are incredibly efficient
> 
> No they're not. Unico and Spacepak both lose efficiency compared to using a conventional blower on the same outdoor unit. A 3/4HP motor on a 2 ton air handler is not efficient. Where they gain some advantage, is that they do tend to remove more moisture from the home. And people can often set their thermostat a degree or 2 higher.
> 
> ...


While aspiration doesn't require the ducts to be in a certain position for good cooling effect. Position must be given consideration so as not to 50° or colder air blowing directly on the people.

Average Unico or Spacpac system goes in for 2 grand more then a conventional system goes for.

I've sold and installed both Unico and Spacepac. And when ever possible, I sell people a conventional instead. A little less money even when they upgrade to a VS blower, and can meet the requirements for tax and utility rebates.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

I also would go with standard ducting as much as possible. Also, one might as well go with a heat pump if they are going to take the step.


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## flashheatingand (May 3, 2008)

RichHolcomb said:


> I am doing an entire whole farm house renovation right now. This home had an existing boiler system with no air. We installed a complete duct system in the first and second floor, installed an air hander in the basement, and cooling unit outside. Even with the most of the house opened up the job was fairly complicated. I could not imagine trying to install air in an old house without it being opened up.
> 
> Rich


That's when it get's fun.


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## CompleteW&D (May 28, 2011)

> While aspiration doesn't require the ducts to be in a certain position for good cooling effect. Position must be given consideration so as not to 50° or colder air blowing directly on the people.


Quite correct. But that's the beauty of a HV system in an old retrofit. You almost always end up with the supply ducts smack dab in a corner because they are easy to hide on the floor above that way. So, when that 50 degree air is crashing down to the floor.... unless you've been a bad boy, you won't be standing right in a corner getting blasted with cold air.


> Where they gain some advantage, is that they do tend to remove more moisture from the home. And people can often set their thermostat a degree or 2 higher.


I'm in central IN. And when I sold a HV system, we typically found that it was more like three to four degrees higher because they don't _tend_ to remove more moisture, they remove a LOT more moisture than a typical A/C system.

As for the two grand difference in price, I don't remember exactly how much higher they were. Two grand seems a little high, but then again.... I sold residential HVAC back in the mid to late '90's. So prices could have changed a bunch since then I suppose.

I still stand by my assertion though.... in an old house with very little closet space and other nooks and cranny's to hide conventional duct work, if budget permits, a HV system is an outstanding way to go. A standard system will work, sure. But how well will it work with ductwork placed in compromised positions at best, and outright poor placements at the worst? But put a HV duct system in those same poor locations, and you get a LOT more comfort throughout the house. And in the end, you should ask yourself.... are you selling an A/C system, or are you selling comfort to that family?

Never let your own personal perception of a system's value get in the way of selling a more profitable job to your customer. I don't pre-judge what a customer can afford or what I personally feel may be "too expensive." I recommend solutions based on what they want and need. If they need the most expensive system to solve their problem, that's what I recommend.

Of course, that's FWIW, IMHO, YMMV, just my $0.02 and all that. :thumbsup:


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## beenthere (Mar 5, 2009)

A conventional system with a VS blower can remove as much moisture as a HV system, and cost less to install.


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