# Would you charge rich people more?



## essrmo (May 2, 2007)

skyhook said:


> Wealthy clients can afford to pay the prevailing rate and changes when they pop up. I would structure my contract to reflect that. Also leave only a small percentage as a final payment, in case you have to walk away without it.





Brian said:


> I don't charge wealthy people more, and I don't charge poor people less either.
> 
> Brian Phillips


that sounds fair. customers change but my price is the same for everybody, regardless of a persons financial standing. 
price gouging is not in my business plan.


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## Any Season (Nov 19, 2007)

*shady shady shady*

That is a really f-d way to run a business. My big concern would be that it is a REALLY small world and you never know who knows who. Also the mindset that you are smarter than the homeowner is probably true regarding your product but you'll get made and look like a fool if you go around making assumptions on people's income and what you can and cannot slip by them.


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## Any Season (Nov 19, 2007)

Also, wealthy people pay for features so upsell them if you are looking for more money. If you are installing base, sell them on crown. etc. etc.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

framerman said:


> Like I said, we can debate about this all day, but there will be an infinite amount of variables. No way to realistically say that each job is going to be the exact same apples for apples. So the original question of saying whether or not someone would charge extra just because the client is rich makes it irrelevant. It is impossible to have an exact situation twice.


but in this case it was a purely hypothetical question that was about ethics more than anything else...so reread Finley's post and be honest with yourself...

i mean realistically, no 2 big macs are ever going to be made in the exact same time, with the exact same amount of lettuce and sauce....etc, but they don't charge based on the car you drive up the window in...

there really is no debating...it's a simple question...either you try to charge wealthy people more for the same product or you don't...yes or no...what's the debate?


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

Any Season said:


> Also, wealthy people pay for features so upsell them if you are looking for more money. If you are installing base, sell them on crown. etc. etc.


that has nothing to do with the original question...upselling is perfectly acceptable...


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

SelfContract said:


> This a very hot topic but strictly sensitive issues for discussion w/regards to ethical, financial, & professional & personal image issues. I respect you guys, and everyone/trade is entitled to his/her personal opinions. No common agreement possible. We are all born different, even in thinking & physical traits too.:thumbsup:
> 
> -- "*Different strokes for different folks*" --. I salute all for a better happy, new year 2008! & God bless.:jester:


Spoken like a true criminal in training.



framerman said:


> Like I said, we can debate about this all day, but there will be an infinite amount of variables. No way to realistically say that each job is going to be the exact same apples for apples. So the original question of saying whether or not someone would charge extra just because the client is rich makes it irrelevant. It is impossible to have an exact situation twice.


You're on your own debate. There is no gray area and it's all apples to apples. The topic is *charging two different prices for the EXACT same work.* Yes or no? Very simple.



john elliott said:


> I see the links your web site at the bottom of each of your posts, Mike. Could it be that you are hoping to sell bathrooms to the guys here?
> Or could it be that posting on this forum is part of your overall marketing effort, that you think maybe, just maybe a customer might find his or her way here, and will be glad to see you standing up for what's right, and will be reassured that you will charge them a fair price?
> 
> John


Yeah John, my business is based on leads generated from Contractortalk.com You truly are a misguided and disturbed individual. Are you having trouble and not liking what you see in the mirror and need another big fat *RATIONALIZATION* to feel better about yourself?

What a world we live in. No wonder we have to lock our doors at night.

But you know what? This is all exactly one of the reasons I chose to get into this industry- easy pickin's and lots of low hanging fruit. 

This industry is filled with low-lifes, poor business men and pure idiots. You don't really have to be the best to rise in this business, and like this thread shows just being "average" or what I would consider just operating from the simple basis of *HONESTY*, is enough to put you ahead of 50% of your competition without even doing anything else.

Don't change a thing, you're making it too easy. :thumbsup:

Sorry - can't resist:



> Financing, credit and debt collection
> Auto sales, title and towing
> Gasoline prices and storm-related price gouging
> Telephone slamming and billing complaints
> *Home Improvements & Remodeling*


Year after year, home improvement contractors make the Top 5 list of businesses with the highest consumer complaints. 

What a shocker.


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## Brian (Jun 9, 2004)

Mike Finley said:


> This industry is filled with low-lifes, poor business men and pure idiots. You don't really have to be the best to rise in this business, and like this thread shows just being "average" or what I would consider just operating from the simple basis of *HONESTY*, is enough to put you ahead of 50% of your competition without even doing anything else.


I agree completely. And more importantly, I tremendously appreciate and respect those who have standards, aren't afraid to voice those standards, and refuse to compromise those standards. 

Brian Phillips


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

OK, fine, I'll relent to this fantasy theory that this would ever happen in a billion years. If it's anything at all, a home let's say, that's built in the same precise exact spot, at the same precise time, with everything exactly going to happen in exactly the same way with the only difference being that the HO has money and based solely on that fact with the absolute knowledge that you undoubtedly know for a fact that the outcome will be precisely, exactly the same, and if you took advantage of the situation, then you would be an a-hole.

I can't wait to see these identical people with exactly the same personality and the same tastes, the same lot, same wife, same car, wanting the same thing, in the same exact time frame, with the exact same results....and different incomes.

This is all based on Mikes rationalization of course. It's so logical, so easy!


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

framerman said:


> OK, fine, I'll relent to this fantasy theory that this would ever happen in a billion years. If it's anything at all, a home let's say, that's built in the same precise exact spot, at the same precise time, with everything exactly going to happen in exactly the same way with the only difference being that the HO has money and based solely on that fact with the absolute knowledge that you undoubtedly know for a fact that the outcome will be precisely, exactly the same, and if you took advantage of the situation, then you would be an a-hole.
> 
> I can't wait to see these identical people with exactly the same personality and the same tastes, the same lot, same wife, same car, wanting the same thing, in the same exact time frame, with the exact same results....and different incomes.


man, i would hate to have to give you a personality test for the military:blink:


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

My two cents....I have personally never charged more,and in all my advertising it clearly states I give senior and military discounts and I never work in extra to cover that.If that little bit hurts me I have no reason to be in business anyways.The discounts are deductible though which is better than nothing.


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

If the both parties come to an agreement, then why not! Just dont do anything shady like crazy change orders.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

john elliott said:


> I see the links your web site at the bottom of each of your posts, Mike. Could it be that you are hoping to sell bathrooms to the guys here?
> Or could it be that posting on this forum is part of your overall marketing effort, that you think maybe, just maybe a customer might find his or her way here, and will be glad to see you standing up for what's right, and will be reassured that you will charge them a fair price?
> 
> John


Hate to break this to you John, but Our Customers DO MAKE IT TO HERE! They Do read Our POSTS and Threads LIKE THIS! Thats whats Really Sad!

Oh, How do I know? I was contacted by a CUSTOMER who was reading this board and saw I was nearby. They e-mailed me from here and I got the job. They were on here look to gain knowledge on their project and learned they were in over their heads. 

So Guys and Girls, if you think you are posting with just contractors, remember this board comes up in search results and our future customers can see, read and post on here. Happens all the time, just look at the amount of Closed Threads!

You never know where your next customer is coming from! Same reason you don't drive crazy on the road when your name is on the truck or trailer.


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## a1propertyclean (Dec 16, 2007)

BuildingHomes said:


> Why charge more, why not sell them more? Use better quality finishes. Use a Good, Better, Best and chances are they will go with the Best.


That's a good point. And while you're at it, what's wrong with asking what kind of a budget they have in mind for the job? At least you have a starting point. Then see what kind of options you can give them after you've done a little research.

Just a thought.

Linda


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## john elliott (Oct 23, 2005)

LNG24 said:


> Hate to break this to you John, but Our Customers DO MAKE IT TO HERE! They Do read Our POSTS and Threads LIKE THIS! Thats whats Really Sad!
> 
> Oh, How do I know? I was contacted by a CUSTOMER who was reading this board and saw I was nearby. They e-mailed me from here and I got the job. They were on here look to gain knowledge on their project and learned they were in over their heads.
> 
> ...


You've misunderstood me- I'm well aware that Mike is well aware that potential customers are reading his posts. All I did was let him know that I know that he is writing what he is writing with the thought that a customer is looking over his shoulder. I can't believe that he really believes the stuff he is writing. 

One thing that amazed me, reading through Mike's website, in the employment section, he is offering $16 an hour to carpenters who can carry out every aspect of a bathroom re-model including the plumbing and electrical. Is that really possible? $16 ? Wow! No wonder he can afford to leave so much money on the table

John


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## FCPWLLC (Jun 1, 2006)

Folks that sell based on price will find themselves in this situation often. For the most part, it is really more of an example of undercharging most of thier customers due to weak seeling skills and ASSUMING they have to lowball with a lower income consumer to get a dotted line signed. So the same ASSUMING when dealing with a higher income customer, gives them the confidence to quote prices that they were too afraid to quote to the lower income customer. *Selling on price!* Selling on Value will allow you to quote $15,000 to both consumers. Maximizing FULL Market Value should always be priority. Both the lower income and higher income prospects. In this case, the real ethics would be to identify when a lower income consumer is in over thier head and offering them alternatives.


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## Mud Master (Feb 26, 2007)

All my pricing is done systematically now..

However, when I did do residential & commercial..

No, I would not upcharge because one is wealthier than another..nor would I let my heart get in the way & charge less because they are "having a tough time financially"..my price is what it is, take it or find someone else.

However..I WOULD upcharge based on the market..I charged $15.00 more a sheet for commercial than I did for residential, strictly because I could. 2000sqft of 1/2'' board for a house was less than 2000sqft of board for a office..give me the same layout, same dimensions, same distance from outside to inside, etc & I still charged more. Even though I had LESS labor(no ceilings) & LESS material(no adhesive), I would still charge more..is that unethical? nope, because the market would bare it.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

What amazes me John is that you actually believe that everybody has to be as *dishonest* and *unscrupulous* as you are!

My simple statements describing how we follow a policy of honesty and ethical business practices with our customers is so foreign to you, so far away from what you believe to be even possible that your mental coping mechanism is to tell yourself that it can't be true! :blink: WOW! Sorry John, there are actually honest people in the world. There are actually people who were raised correctly in this world, people who do what it right, not because somebody is looking over their shoulder, but because doing what is right, *is* the right thing to do.

And yes John, $16.00 a hours is our *starting* wage for the lowest skilled employee position we have.

Glad to know you're reading through our company website, feel free to study it and learn from it. Obviously there is alot there you can learn from.

Absolutely amazing. Only on the Internet could you actually find somebody who would argue the side of being dishonest.


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

FCPWLLC said:


> Folks that sell based on price will find themselves in this situation often. For the most part, it is really more of an example of undercharging most of thier customers due to weak seeling skills and ASSUMING they have to lowball with a lower income consumer to get a dotted line signed. So the same ASSUMING when dealing with a higher income customer, gives them the confidence to quote prices that they were too afraid to quote to the lower income customer. *Selling on price!* *Selling on Value will allow you to quote $15,000 to both consumers.* *Maximizing FULL Market Value should always be priority. Both the lower income and higher income prospects.* In this case, the real ethics would be to identify when a lower income consumer is in over thier head and offering them alternatives.


Excellent, I couldn't have said it better myself!:thumbsup: That's exactly the secret. You sell your products at their maximum value to everyone, regardless of race, gender, religion or income. That is the example of capitalism that Rusket should learn. Your product should be worth what it is worth based upon the value delivered, not the ability to screw a wealthy person. 

What's next John? If the wealthy can afford to pay more, how about a nice senior citizen? I can imagine your take on them too. "They don't have long to live, you need their money more then they do so you should charge them more too." How about a man vs a woman? 

Please tell us, give us your full racial profile and standard practices/procedures on how you judge people's estimates based upon your profiles, you sick little freak.


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## john elliott (Oct 23, 2005)

Mike Finley said:


> What amazes me John is that you actually believe that everybody has to be as *dishonest* and *unscrupulous* as you are!
> 
> My simple statements describing how we follow a policy of honesty and ethical business practices with our customers is so foreign to you, so far away from what you believe to be even possible that your mental coping mechanism is to tell yourself that it can't be true! :blink: WOW! Sorry John, there are actually honest people in the world. There are actually people who were raised correctly in this world, people who do what it right, not because somebody is looking over their shoulder, but because doing what is right, *is* the right thing to do.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Mike, I couldn't have asked for better proof that what you are writing here is intended to be read by your potential customers. I'm sure they will be impressed with your honesty, though perhaps a little less impressed with your logic.

Is there any danger that you will, at some point, address yourself to the points I raised in my original post?

John


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

My Dad was the most honest man I've ever known, so it's a non-issue to the original post. A $10,000 job is a $10,000 job to anyone. The only other issue that comes into play is charity. If I do a repair in a home where the people are in obvious poverty, I discount as much as I feel appropriate at the time. I also don't charge for work at church.

Dave


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## dennis (Nov 17, 2004)

I don't think that this is a question of ethics.

Would you save a drowning rich man as opposed to a drowning poor man? That is a question of ethics.

This is business.

If I sold you a pet rock for $10.00 and then sold Bill Gates the same pet rock for $10,000.00 . I don't see a problem with that.

If I sold either of you a pet rock, and delivered a hard lump of mud, that I would have a problem with.


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## RidgeWalker (Nov 1, 2006)

I am SO glad I don't have to worry about what I charge and how I derive at the pricing for my clients projects. 

But if I were presented with this case, there's no way in hell I'd charge more just becuase the client was rich. This has many negative implications and ramifications on the furture sucess of your business it's not even remotely funny.


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## john elliott (Oct 23, 2005)

dennis said:


> I don't think that this is a question of ethics.
> 
> Would you save a drowning rich man as opposed to a drowning poor man? That is a question of ethics.
> 
> ...


Well said Dennis, watch out for Mike though, or you will incur his *Righteous Wrath*

John


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> either you try to charge wealthy people more for the same product or you don't...yes or no...what's the debate?


 
It is NOT the same exact product. We don't sell romex and cans, we sell SERVICE.



The higher end the client, the more demanding they will be. They have high expectations and are paying well for my attention.


Time is money on a contracted job and generally you will only do what is specified without getting approval, change orders etc. A higher end client GENERALLY won't want to deal with this. They want to know when it wil be done and they want it done right. They don't want to be nickle and dimed to death.

You find that you need another outlet, can or circuit? You can just do it without it costing you money.

The higher end client will likely have a bunch of expensive crap in your way. You need to be able to take the time to move it/replace it and/or cover it. Prep/clean up on a higher end job will cost hours.

A higher end client may require you to make extra trips to accomodate their schedules. If Joe customer calls with a circuit out I will get to him on my schedule. If a VIP calls, I will go there myself if necessary to see that he is taken care of. I can AFFORD to do this because he PAYS me better than my average customer.

A higher end job just flat out takes more time which = more money.

The more money I get, the better job I can afford to do.




> just out of curiosity...how would everyone feel if the restaurant around the corner from you charged based on your income?


They DO. 

Sizzler or Ruth Chris.

I usually end between them at Black Angus 



> explain to me what your response would be if the 6:00 news showed up on your doorstep


I'd tell them I lost money on the 30K job 



> Ethically and legally, you can and should base your price on your costs and expected ROI, not on external factors (like wealth, race, weather conditions, etc.)


WTF? You can't consider WEATHER CONDITIONS?




> Please tell us, give us your full racial profile and standard practices/procedures on how you judge people's estimates based upon your profiles, you sick little freak.


Wow. That seemed uncalled for. No need to be a douchebag.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

220/221 said:


> It is NOT the same exact product. We don't sell romex and cans, we sell SERVICE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the question wasn't whether you would offer better service for a higher price to a wealthy customer...it was would you just charge more because they are wealthy...same job, same product...one customer wealthy, one not...simple question...



[


220/221 said:


> They DO.
> 
> Sizzler or Ruth Chris.
> 
> I usually end between them at Black Angus


you're smarter than this...it's not whether you charge one price, and another contractor charges a different price...it would be like going to Sizzler and them charging different prices for the same meal based on your income....




220/221 said:


> I'd tell them I lost money on the 30K job


so i'm gonna make it all up on this wealthy customer...:blink:




220/221 said:


> WTF? You can't consider WEATHER CONDITIONS?


that didn't play into the initial question..so no, it doesn't need to be considered in this case...


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> the question wasn't whether you would offer better service for a higher price to a wealthy customer...it was would you just charge more because they are wealthy...same job, same product...one customer wealthy, one not...simple question...


If they are wealthy it would NOT be the same job. It might be the same amout of switches, outlets and cans but it would NOT be the same job. Like I said before, the job entails more than romex and cans. 

Generally, wealthy people pay MORE because they want better SERVICE. THAT is why the go to Ruth Chris, THAT is why the fly charter jets, and THAT is why hire people to do things for them that regular people do for themselves.

I am a hardworking blue collar 130k working stiff and if someone will pay me double/triple/10X to work for them I will gladly accomodate them. Hell, I ocaisionally get a tip from a grateful customer. I aint too proud to accept it.


If it make me sound better, I don't charge wealthy people more, I charge regular people less.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

220/221 said:


> If they are wealthy it would NOT be the same job. It might be the same amout of switches, outlets and cans but it would NOT be the same job. Like I said before, the job entails more than romex and cans.
> 
> Generally, wealthy people pay MORE because they want better SERVICE. THAT is why the go to Ruth Chris, THAT is why the fly charter jets, and THAT is why hire people to do things for them that regular people do for themselves.
> 
> ...


i was mistaken...i thought you were smarter...these are valid points, but they are not relevant to the original question...


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> i was mistaken...i thought you were smarter...these are valid points, but they are not relevant to the original question...


 
Heh heh....I'm not sure what led you to believe I was smart.:laughing:

You are just being stubborn. They ARE relevant to the OP. He simply asked if you would charge more if they were wealthy. I answered "yes" and gave my reasoning.

He didn't stipulate that they lived in the same exact house and would have the same exact requirements as a normal person.


On the other end of the same question, I will add a premium on any job I DON'T want to do. I'm not about to deal with cockroach infested slums without more than normal compensation.

Some contractors bring in 60 bucks an hour, others bring in 300. As long as everything is in the open and done right, it's all good.


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

220/221 said:


> Heh heh....I'm not sure what led you to believe I was smart.:laughing:
> 
> You are just being stubborn. They ARE relevant to the OP. He simply asked if you would charge more if they were wealthy. I answered "yes" and gave my reasoning.
> 
> He didn't stipulate that they lived in the same exact house and would have the same exact requirements as a normal person.


i'm contrarian by nature, but this seems straight forward to me----



Original Post said:


> Let's suppose you are doing reasonably well, got plenty of work and plenty of leads.
> *You get a call and are asked to quote for some straight-forward work, let's say it's something you would normally charge $10K for.* It turns out that these people are very rich.
> 
> How much extra, if anything, would you ask?
> ...





220/221 said:


> On the other end of the same question, I will add a premium on any job I DON'T want to do. I'm not about to deal with cockroach infested slums without more than normal compensation.
> 
> Some contractors bring in 60 bucks an hour, others bring in 300. As long as everything is in the open and done right, it's all good.


if you've read any of my posts, i'm definitely pro charging out the ass...it's not about that in this question...i'm all for charging more and giving more...hell, i can't pay guys $50-$60/hr total package if I'm only billing $60/hr...but the question wasn't "would you upsell a wealthier customer better products, service, etc".


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

> the question wasn't "would you upsell a wealthier customer better products, service, etc".


The question was basically "would you charge more".

My answer was "yes"


"Because they are wealthy" implies to ME that they will expect a higher level of service and a better than average installation therefore I charge them a premium.



Where is the emote for beating my head against the wall?


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## mahlere (Aug 6, 2006)

i know the feeling:whistling

what's that old saying about assuming things?


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## Tscarborough (Feb 25, 2006)

For you gentlemen that say that a wealthy client will expect a higher degree of service and finish, does that mean you do crappy work for normal people, since that is all they will expect?


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## 220/221 (Sep 29, 2007)

Tscarborough said:


> For you gentlemen that say that a wealthy client will expect a higher degree of service and finish, does that mean you do crappy work for normal people, since that is all they will expect?


Crappy work is not in my repertoire. My scale starts at acceptable then goes to good, excellent, and superior.


Normal people get normal service. Safe, clean installations with 2 year warranty and service on my schedule.

Wealthy people who pay for it get safe, cleanER installations with a LIFETIME warranty and service on THEIR schedule. When the money is there you can afford to do whatever it takes.

Maybe I leave my scaffold there an extra day so their painter can use it. Maybe I break out some concrete for the plumber while I have my demo hammer out. I can AFFORD to go all out and do whatever it takes to get the their project done. Maybe I notice that something outside my scope of work was missed or isn't being done properly.

The more money I am beiing paid the more time I can afford to spend.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

I think this thread has 
*OFFICIALLY STOPPED BENEFITING ANYONE* 
and should be closed!

ALL IN FAVOR:clap:


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

GC, Realtor, Handyman? I thought that I was busy as a remod with a marine business. I could probably take on Realtor given todays business.:laughing:

Just jabbin' but GC/Handyman? Does not compute.


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## LNG24 (Oct 30, 2005)

Teetorbilt said:


> GC, Realtor, Handyman? I thought that I was busy as a remod with a marine business. I could probably take on Realtor given todays business.:laughing:
> 
> Just jabbin' but GC/Handyman? Does not compute.


Since you asked, I posted how it all came to be. http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?p=348078#post348078

My work speaks for its self. I just don't see the negative in Handyman. Read my story if you want to know more.


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## RidgeWalker (Nov 1, 2006)

I have found that high income people tend to have more faith in me and my compitence to do the job right and therefore aren't looking over my shoulder. On the other hand I've found middle to lower income people tend to be more critical of my work and more apt to give me payment problems.

Bur really this thread is going no place since about 3 pages ago.

The question just reveals peoples own morals and ethics in doing business.


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## HomeGuard (Dec 13, 2007)

To charge someone more based purely on wealth is unethical, however as we all know most weathly people don't want to be hassled about anything on the project, so it is perfectly fine to charge them more because you have more to please them. This question is kinda irrelevent anyway because no 2 houses are the same and no 2 clients are the same so price is almost never the same. 

A question that most all of us would answer the same is would you charge a PITA customer more to do their job?:cheesygriyes


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## Tiger (Nov 21, 2007)

Honest people don't need alibis. It's been fun reading all the alibis. The point of the original post IMO is if you have two clients 10 miles from your office installing the same 6 recessed lights with the same trim and bulbs and the same dimmer...same ceiling height, same distance to the truck, same level of the house...*do you charge different because one is in a $2M house with a new Lexus and the other is in a $1/4M house with a Dodge?

*It's a very simple question for an honest person.

Dave


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## threaderman (Nov 15, 2007)

I've worked for Ruth Chris ,many times in Vegas,nice people .They got the exact same price and the exact same service as anyone else I work for.You generally have to work much more carefully around the expensive stuff anywhere you are,so that naturally is going to run into more time increasing the charge some.


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