# Estimating Software



## B1111 (Mar 18, 2007)

I am using National Estimator 2007, what is your opinion about this program and which other software are you using?
I use it mostly for remodeling and additions.
Thank you.


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## FINISH TECH (Mar 1, 2007)

I am also using this program and im new to becoming a contractor 
ive been on my own for a while but just recently finally got my license!
I am also wondering how many people are using this program and if so is it just as a referance or are people using the numbers right off the program. And for the old school contractors if you arent using these types of programs have you ever compared what you figure it would cost on your own bidding method. And then compared it with these types of programs.

lately I just figure out my hourly rate, figure it per day, then try and make a close guess on how many days it well take and add some extra time I figure in materails ect. 

Im just curious on how close these estimate books really are!
it just seems like the way to go type the square footage ect.
And go.


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## POOLMANinCT (Oct 7, 2006)

I think those programs are terrible "typpe the square footage & go"

that will get you through your projects, but won't build a career & a future.
the theory of template
prices is just like living pay check to pay check...

this is a dead horse around here... I fig what I want to make on a job(meanin how much I want my company bank account to grow), then add a few of my bills to the price. ie my yearly heating oil bill, vacation, retirement contribution or yearly insurance premium....

long and short fig what you should make on a job then throw in a bonus for you.. if you are using these templates you are not factoring what you need to be comfortable..
you are setting your pricing to merely get by & one to the next one....

want a new truck? say 15k, you know you will sell 5 or 10 jobs this month... spread that truck out over them...

if you think this is unreasonable, you need to ask yourself serious questions.. tradesman or businessman.... you have to be both...


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## Richard (May 21, 2006)

B1111 said:


> I am using National Estimator 2007, what is your opinion about this program


I think it's a common that a lot of contractors start out using the NE. I also think it's common that most stop using it or at least stop using it as their only form of estimating.

Let's remember that *estimating* is an "estimate"... a "ballpark"

A *proposal* consists of a fine tuned number derived from the estimate with other costs and factors built in.

It's like that conversation we always get into about how suits can come up with as much software as they want, but they will never _really_ understand what life is like working on a jobsite.


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## B1111 (Mar 18, 2007)

*What other estimating programs*

are you using, if any? Thank you.


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## MattCoops (Apr 7, 2006)

if you got a clipboard, tape measure, pencil, paper, and a calculator
you can use the software between your eyes and brain to come up with successful estimates just fine

good luck


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

> if you got a clipboard, tape measure, pencil, paper, and a calculator
> you can use the software between your eyes and brain to come up with successful estimates just fine


This is true but outdated. With todays software we are able to estimate a job in less time and when finished have more information about the job. It is nice on a large commercial job to be able to go into any certain room or area and know what each item in that area costs. Example - a classroom in a school to be able to know exactly what you are being paid to install ceiling tile, how much ceiling tile is required and it's cost, how much ceiling grid and it's cost, how much for labor, how much time will be required for that specific ceiling in that specific room, the total dollar amount of markups and profit etc. Having all of that information on a portable computer during the job itself is invaluable. This same data can be used for billing too. This just can't be done with pencil and paper with any efficiency at all.

Another feature of good estimating software is all of the calculations are done automatically. This negates chances of a calculation error. One simple decimal point error could cost you much more than any software package ever would. Before estimating software after I had finished the actual measuring and writing stuff down it would require an equal amount of time to add all of the numbers together and add pricing to get a total price for the bid. I rarely use a calculator when estimating a job since I started using estimating software. As soon as the last measurement is entered, I can look at the total cost by simply clicking my mouse.

It is also nice after having finished estimating a job to have a list of materials and quantities that can be sent to your suppliers to have them bid on, just as we are forced to bid on our work. This will sometimes get you a better price from suppliers if they know they are bidding against other suppliers for their work. 

Another nice feature is a list of items bid along with the labor requirements for each item. This is of great help in job planning and in the actual commencement of the job.

For anyone who has more than a single estimator or an estimator is anyone other than yourself, it gives you a way to control the pricing and have continuity across the board.

Printing out your job takeoff and estimate is much better than trying to read someone elses illegible writing. These printed estimates can be saved in a job folder just like any other estimate and the ability to save your estimate to the drive makes it easier to make changes to an estimate later as needed. If you ever happen to lose a takeoff or a page of a takeoff or if you ever need any part of your estimate for use in the field, the job can always be loaded and reprinted. Many times it is much faster to load a job on your computer and look at it than it is to actually go to a file cabinet, find the folder and look through the folder for the particular page you need.

Personally I feel that using templates is not the way to go. It will work for some situations. There are way too many variables to contend with including what area of the country you are working in. There is no way that any single program can have enough templates to cover everything and if they did, then it would be much faster to do everything with pencil and paper rather than having to look through that many templates and figure out which one is best for a particular job. I would be sure that whatever estimating software I use that it has the ability to to use actual job data that I can enter while looking at the job (or later as conditions arise). Not all estimating software allows for these types of variable conditions.

Unit pricing used to be the way to go but today with high competition and not everyone always playing by the rules then we have to have a greater understanding of the job we are bidding. Personally I prefer to use actual labor and material data to come up with a total price. Unit prices are nothing more than an educated guess. Here is an example. Lets say that you are painting 450 sf of gyp board wall. Paint normally covers 300 SF per gallon. Our paint cost us $20.00 per gallon and we would have to purchase 2 gallons for the job, $40.00. If we were to calculate a unit price for this we would divide the $20.00 cost by the 300 sf coverage rate and get a material cost of .067 per sf. Multiply this by 450 SF and the material cost is $30.15. That is 25% less than what is actually needed. This same example holds true with most items in a job. When we start throwing in waste factors etc. then good estimating software is even more important.



> Let's remember that *estimating* is an "estimate"... a "ballpark"


That sounds good but in most cases that estimate has to be lived with until the job is complete. Most times the job is bid at a specific price. That price can't be changed without good reason and "the cost was more than the estimate" isn't a good reason.

Money can be made but we have to be smarter and better than our competition.

Good estimating software is just as important as a good estimator.


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## B1111 (Mar 18, 2007)

*Thank you David,*

for your time and effort, now I don't feel like "construction geek" with my lap top on the site. I also noticed that customers like when I email my estimates. What is your opinion on some other estimating programs, if you know any, I would like to try different programs how they work for me.
Thanks again.


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

What exactly are you using your estimating program for. I looked online at the National Estimator 2007 and it appears to be more of a guide than it is software to help with your calculations, pricing etc. Does National Estimating actually help with calculations. Can you enter measurements and it calculates and prices them for you?

What kind of work do you do?

What trade and is it commercial, residential or industrial work?

I have also added an email function to my estimating software so that bids can be emailed to potential customers from within the software just as soon as the bid is ready. Many times this can be done while still in the planroom or at the customers location.


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## hatchet (Oct 27, 2003)

I purchased EasyEst. I really like it for it's ease of updating material costs, labor rates, and production rates. It's very flexible and outputs decent reports, as well as exports to quickbooks. The thing I really like about is that it seperates the estimate from the price book. So I can modify a production rate, hourly rate, or material cost without affecting the pricebook itself.

The biggest issue with this program for new contractors is the setup time. This isn't a guide to estimating - you have to put in your production rates and material costs. It took me about a full week to get all our cost codes setup and ready to export to QB. Now I can do a 2000 sf residence in about 1.5 hours which includes takeoff time.

If you buy the full program it's pretty expensive (1300 for full package), but I only purchased the minimum modules that I needed - I think it was less than $300.


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

We used CostEstimator but now use another program which name escapes me right now. I'll ask DH when he gets home.

CostEstimator updated with local materials cost and labor costs based off area averages. You could "mark up" your T&M whatever percentage you wanted to.

It would give us a ballpark which we would consider in the final proposal. We've never gone with the number the program ever gave us though. :thumbsup:


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## TridentOps (Feb 16, 2007)

Im new as well, just got my Ca license. The company I used to work for took pool mans approach to the estimating and it went horrible. I think that was mainly because of the rocket scientist doing the estimating, not neccesarily the system. Anyways, I use a combination of programs @ the moment, trying to figure out the best system. I like quickbooks, but its hard to predict all the different custom things. So its a combo of QB, National Estimator and Open Office Calc (Open source excel) I like open office because i can be more flexible with items while still keeping it somewhat organized. NE is just used @ the moment because its a usefull catalog of stuff when I want to be specific. my estimates normally involve a cad drawing so i can use it for permits, takeoffs, and subs. Plus the HO's seem to like a sketch on their proposal. So yeah, organized chaos, thats my estimating process.


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## user843839 (May 2, 2007)

Check out Bid-4-Build. After a lot of investigation, we found it offered a lot of value for the very reasonable investment.

Regards,

Tom


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## Kristina (Apr 21, 2006)

The program they use now is Exactimate. :thumbsup:


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## JimD (Apr 14, 2006)

*Estimate program*

The one I use is Hometech Advantage. The cost books are always updated, and broken into different areas. Remodeling, new construction, Handyman, 
Worth taking a look.


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## DavidNTX (May 6, 2007)

Whenever I have 15 or more posts, I will post a URL where the estimating software that I wrote can be downloaded.


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## send_it_all (Apr 10, 2007)

Has anyone here tried WinEst?....I bought the advantage program last year at the JLC show. Now I admit that I am an E-Tard (computer illiterate) but I can't even figure out how to use this damn program. It cost $700 and I literally cant figure out how to create an estimate or proposal that I could hand to a customer. Pisses me off to no end.


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## MNContractor (May 26, 2007)

I'm a new contractor so I have only tried a couple of the major estimating packages, but for pure counts/take-off we use eTakeOff - big learning curve, but it's the most full-featured, start-to-end estimating system I've seen.

There is another competing product that I can't recall the name off, but eTakeOff has a great backend for trace-types, their cost per unit, based on all the dimensions, plus allowances for carpeting seams, headers, units over a period of measure (for instance it will account for number of screws or glue around the perimeter of a piece of drywall as well as how many sheets you need). There is a free demo and the guys that run it are all about educating people to use it, but it gets complex because it doesn't make many assumptions about what you do - you have to model it all yourself, but once you do - it can almost automate everything after you draw lines/areas/counts on your plan - you get an itemized bid document.

I know I sound like an ad for them now, sorry. I swear I have no relation to the company other than being a customer. $500-ish I think?


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## buletbob (Mar 16, 2008)

I also use home Tech Advantage I have been using it for over Eight years And I can Honestly say i have never lost any money on any job since i have used it.


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## skylands (Dec 10, 2005)

I've been using Home Tech since the mid 90's when it first came out. Each upgrade takes a little while to figure out but you will make money using the program.
Works for me.


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