# Does this look correct?



## AtlRemodeling (Jan 23, 2008)

Have a client that had a couple broken tiles in their secondary shower. Started pulling out a tile and I think I found the problem. Anybody install thinset in this manner?  Is there any possible reason other than laziness?


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## tcleve4911 (Mar 26, 2006)

Looks like the plumber or someone else did it after the tile was all done?


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

Its called the "spot method" usually 5-9 dots of thinset to plumb up walls and flatten tile, they should have spread thinset on walls to adhere the dots to and have better coverage.


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## CO762 (Feb 22, 2010)

AtlRemodeling said:


> Anybody install thinset in this manner?  Is there any possible reason other than laziness?


I've seen people dot when there's no reason to. I think some of it is culture as a lot of them seem to have that similarity.

But that experience stated, I've also once seen about 3 inches of mastic put down as a filler.....on a floor....if that even mattered....


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Looks like an improper spot method to me. Nothing wrong with spot setting, but it's gotta be done right.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Wet locations require 95% coverage. 

That no lookie like 95% :no:

There's no excuse for that.


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## Kyras (Jan 2, 2010)

I understand the reason for spots. It sure makes things easy to level/plumb. But I never heard the phrase "nothing wrong with spot setting before."

How does one "do it right"? Don't get me wrong, I've seen spots on slabs last for 50+ years on walls. I've also seen petrified dino poop. Spotting isn't even close to "right". I didn't get that memo that condoned it. What exactly did it say?


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

If you key thinset into the substrate and back butter prior to spotting them up, you will get your required coverage and have the ability to adjust for a less than flat surface. It is more work and I do not do it very often but there have been times (new construction) when I'm not the cbu installer..large format tile. Don't do it you don't feel comfortable with it, but it does work.


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## soxfan (Aug 2, 2005)

Spot setting works great with thinset that's not skinned over or gone bad in the bucket. Thinset is thinset. You can argue whether 95% coverage is really what to strive for when you've got big tiles, small joints and unflat walls; but when you pull a tile and its back leaves a nice, clean impression on the thinset you have other problems besides coverage percentage.


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## Kyras (Jan 2, 2010)

Hold up. Back buttering a tile, which is then set on spots, which don't squish down all the way and leave voids, is NOT 95% coverage. The voids will cause issues when walked on, ie: marble floor will crack to bits, yes?

The solution is not spots. The solution is a larger notch on your trowel (along with back butter). Having thinset at the correct consistency is also key, allowing the tiles to compress nicely under hand pressure. Ooze? Yeah. Voids? No.

I have a giant 20" trowel which was bought as a flat trowel from HD. I traced the 3/4" mexican trowel onto it and ground it to match. The sucker is huge. What it allows is the flattening of the slight waves in a floor over a large enough area so that it doesn't ride up and down. Combined with backbutter it will make an 18" square cut limestone floor flat as glass. It has straightened many a wavy ocean.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

I think I realize the confusion now Kyras. I would never spot set a floor. The original discussion was wall tile. That's what I have been referring to.


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## Kyras (Jan 2, 2010)

I was taught that spot setting is, in any situation, incorrect.

I believe the actual phrasing was, "This guy set tile like a shoemaker. He should set one more like this and then die."

Myself, I feel there is more than one way to skin a cat and each is free, within reason, to adopt his own personal practices. I never have, and never will, spot set. But that's me. I'm sure you would disagree with some of my techniques (and have). I happen to disagree, strongly, on this one.

For being a self pronounced Schluter-bot, one might imagine All that water that infiltrates a wall and ALL that mildew and mold that it causes to be quite amplified by the cavities spotting creates, being trapped and held in there by that miracle waterproofing. Being overly paranoid about water infiltration and mildew, then allowing a perfect place for it, seems contradictory. But to each his own.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Disagree all you wish. Makes no difference to me. Look you do things your way, and I'll do mine. Every situation is different. If we could all set tile in a perfect environment we wouldn't have 80% of the conversations we do on this and many other boards. I know you and CO are waiting around every corner for the opportunity to suddenly expose the "Schluter people" for frauds. Good luck. 

Wait...I thought you said waterproofing was unnecessary on vertical surfaces? I'm confused. So tell me, in my scenario above, with a membrane on the wall, where does the water go?

Personally I think the 95% coverage requirement on wall tile is horse****.....Angus will shurely disagree. That's OK. I don't need the approval of anyone on my jobs but me.....after all I'm the one warrantying it right? I guarantee there are things all of us do on our own jobs that another would say they disagree with.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

My take is if you're using porcelain tile and Kerdi on a vertical surface, it's a real good idea to follow the 95% recommendation. 

By using non modified thinset, you're already buggering the TCNA's recommendation of porcelain & modified thinset. If I have the "over do it" attitude towards waterproofing, I'll have the same mentality with wall coverage.

:thumbup:


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Who says I only use dryset with porcelain :ninja:

You had to go and drag that out of me :laughing: I have alluded to that in previous posts, bu have not come out and said it. 

One of those do as I say not as I do things. Schluter will not warranty it, so I tell people to follow their instructions. 

I am not concerned with Schluter warrantying my work in a typical run of the mill shower. I know _why_ they have there stance on modified thinsets and respect that. I have done my own testing on that front and feel very confident in my methods, or I wouldn't use them.

Truth is we all have hybrid ways of doing things. That's what experience is for. Here comes another ****storm :laughing:


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

PrecisionFloors said:


> Here comes another ****storm :laughing:


:no: Not from me....


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

PS before you guys get your pitch forks all oiled up, I have had the unpleasant opportunity to need that method of setting, maybe 4 times. I doubt it will come again anytime soon. I do ALL of my own wall prep now. This was back in my new construction days. You can take a wild guess as to whether or not they were even waterproofed. You show up to already hung cbu that waves like beauty queen on a parade float, and there is no money available for prep, no time to argue about it, and no one would listen anyway.

What would you do? I'm sure all of you NOW would say "I'd walk off the job" Bull****. Yeah, risk your relationship with the man giving you 75K a year in work to argue about his methods. That's why I figured out how to get away from that kind of work....but when you're there in the middle of it.....sometimes you have to learn new tricks. Spot setting is one of them.


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## jarvis design (May 6, 2008)

I have never personally used the "spot" method and kinda thought it was only used for larger (thicker) stone/tile on walls. 

As for the debate over modified vs. non with kerdi, I have been using Lat 317 for a few years and really like its consistancy and performance. 
That being said, I believe a self hydrating thinset like Ardex X-5, although not officially endorsed by Schluter, will work just as well, as will rapid set.


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## CanCritter (Feb 9, 2010)

looks to be the plumber is the blame...looks like he used what was availible and ran short at that


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*No way,*

3rd shift work possibly - lazy trowel:blink:. that is ridiculous. 
Brian


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## plhalstead (Sep 26, 2008)

I saw spot setting for the first time when I moved to Florida......dont know where it came from but it is a half ass way of doing things. It seems to me that people use this way in areas in the country were the tradesman are not as skilled.......or maybe its smart.


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## aptpupil (Jun 12, 2010)

saw it in northern ca on a backsplash i worked on. demo went real fast, but that's about all the good i can say about it.


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## Frankwhoa (Oct 20, 2010)

Tile was probably wet from the hole cut out. 95% or even 100% coverage is what a rep/attorney is going to look for (have to follow manufactures directions). They should have dried the tile off. 

I personally wouldn't spot either. Only time I've ever seen anything like this in on large marble/granite slabs on walls in govt buildings or here in the French Quarter some of the large 2" thick slate stones are set with spot at the corners but only because the water is allowed to drain in the joints (no grout) and to the substrate underneath which is drastically sloped (like on an exterior commercial balcony). Seen it once, a decade ago. Im sure there is another MUCH BETTER and cost effective way that is. Follow the BIG guys (TCNA et al) recommendations and avoid any one who 'improvises' OUTSIDE of those theories!!

Some ppl just dont get it AND NEVER WILL!! LOL geez


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