# Estimating / Take-off software



## soil estimator (Feb 22, 2006)

*Anyone using Estimating / Take-off software?*

I am wondering about software for Estimating / Take-off for site excavating companies. If you use one please let me know good & bad points, also ease of use. Thanks!


----------



## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

Soil,

We use Heavy Bid by HCSS for estimating. We are small and only use the lite version. It is an exceptional program the company is excellent the support is live people 24 hrs everyday! everyday!

They have a pipe takeoff software.

They integrate with paydirt takeoff software and many accounting software companies. 

Nick


----------



## soil estimator (Feb 22, 2006)

Being new to the this forum, I appreciate you taking the time to give your opinion. I'll check it out.


----------



## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

I use a scale and a calculator :thumbup:


----------



## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

rino1494 said:


> I use a scale and a calculator :thumbup:


 Ditto, sometimes even pull out the abbacus!:w00t: :laughing:


----------



## SteelHorse (Feb 24, 2006)

I've used Trimble (used to be Spectra Precision) Paydirt for 8-10 yrs... I looked at PAYDIRT and AGTEK and actually like features of AGTEK better, but bought paydirt for under half the price.


----------



## soil estimator (Feb 22, 2006)

I also use a scale and calculator, but with the larger jobs and amount of time I have available (which includes being a taxi service for my kids) I'm thinking there's got to be a better way. It always seems like the jobs you really want all come up for bid at once. I've looked into Trimble's software and liked what I saw, but I haven't looked at AGTEK yet.


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

I've been estimating since 1987. I think that when considering how to go about automating the various tasks involved the first thing one should settle on is what you want the technology to accomplish for you. If all you want to do is improve the ease and speed of quantity takeoffs, that's a different matter than wanting to build historical cost information or needing to integrate the estimating process with those of project management and accounting.
Quantity takeoff can be as simple as averaging cuts and fills by using a plan sized sheet of transparent vinyl marked out in a one inch grid pattern to overlay a site plan or as spophisticated as a digital plotter. A simple drafting tool like a polar planimeter http://www.professionalequipment.com/xq/ASP/ProductID.3789/id.15/subID.497/qx/default.htm
can be used to for accurately measuring the area of irregular shapes. IMO, if the volume of earthwork quantity takeoffs you need to do is fairly low, I don't see the benefit of spending thousands of dollars on a sophisticated estimating 'package'.
For pipework, I've always found spreadsheets and 'look-up tables' to be perfectly adequate (if not most desirable) to meet the quantity takeoff and cost estimating needs of a relatively small company (sales of <$10M a year).


----------



## jmic (Dec 10, 2005)

PipeGuy said:


> IMO, if the volume of earthwork quantity takeoffs you need to do is fairly low, I don't see the benefit of spending thousands of dollars on a sophisticated estimating 'package'.


 Pipe,
I couldn't agree with you more!:thumbsup:


----------



## SteelHorse (Feb 24, 2006)

Soil Estimator
You're completely correct, all the good jobs do come at once... and they all need the estimate yesterday.
Technology truely isn't for everyone, every company, or every task (Like PipeGuy I never use take-off software for underground). However, if you are comfortable with technology, (I assume you are or you wouldn't be inquiring about software) Take-off software is an excellent place to start. I wouldn't recommend changing your take-off processes and estimating processes at the same time or you will go insane or bankrupt.
Starting with Take-off software / hardware, you will be able to digitize anything from a small residential site to a complex subdivision / large commercial development and have extremely accurate cut and fill calcs in a fraction of the time you spend right now, excluding the first 10 time in which you will take three times longer than the end area and calculator method. When we purchased Paydirt, we were quite small, but understood that as a small contractor, a single calculation error could be devisating. As we grew, the speed became more of an issue. The ability to take-off all earthwork quantities for a 16 acre subdivion in a matter of 3-4 hours would have meant days of calcs to get similar accuracy. Additionally, you can easily go back into your take-off and make adjustments as changes arise and not have to start from scratch.
Using Paydirt (and I'm sure most other similar software) you can instantly tell if there was an error in the input process by looking at a cut/fill map which graphically (and numerically) shows depth of cut at any given point on the project. You can also view or print out a 3D view of the site - mostly handy in impressing clients. If you have a large site that is not balanced in design, you can with one key stroke determine what it would take to balance the site - you may in this process, lock pads or areas that cannot have elevation changes. The ability to tell your client that you can save him a fortune in export or import can be an exceptional marketing tool, or a hidden profit center. Paydirt also allows you to input subgrade adjustments for parking lots, sidewalks, or anything with a section. These subgrade adjustments will then both be calculated as volume of import (i.e. Aggregate Base & Asphalt) as well as additional excavation and export if applicable. Basically, you only have to enter finished grade, outline the area in question and let the software do the rest.

None of this will replace experience or intuition, the estimators sixth sense, but it will very likely improve the speed and accuracy of the take-off.
Treat software like your iron, if for one second, you think that you have to pay for the software and that it won't pay for itself, don't buy it. The good news is... when it has eight thousand hours you won't have to spend 25K on a transmission.


----------



## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

SteelHorse said:


> ...I wouldn't recommend changing your take-off processes and estimating processes at the same time or you will go insane or bankrupt...When we purchased Paydirt, we were quite small, but understood that as a small contractor, a single calculation error could be devisating.
> Using Paydirt you can also view or print out a 3D view of the site - mostly handy in impressing clients. The ability to tell your client that you can save him a fortune in export or import can be an exceptional marketing tool, or a hidden profit center.


Great points and well said. You've actually got me considering how I might be able to put it to use.



SteelHorse said:


> ...The good news is... when it has eight thousand hours you won't have to spend 25K on a transmission.


How has the software company been about pushing, or otherwise requiring, your periodic purchase of 'upgrade' versions?


----------



## soil estimator (Feb 22, 2006)

:thumbup: SteelHorse, thanks for your time and insight into my question. I should have been more specific originally, I am looking more to improve my take-off time rather than to replace my estimating system. As you stated, our subdivision take-off work, generally consisting of 15-30 acre sites in our area, is very time consuming. Since I not only do all of the estimating & take-off work, but the office management as well, it is hard to balance when several jobs come in at once. I will take all of the information posted and see where my needs may be met. Then determine if I can convince my brother on this, maybe the hardest job of all...

I think this is a great site and will help out if I can. Kudos.


----------



## SteelHorse (Feb 24, 2006)

PipeGuy-
Actually the hard sell was in the beginning to buy all of the bells and whistles. We did in fact get sold some modules that we didn't need, but it took six months to realize it. I would recommend only buying the bare minimum and add to it. I have a close friend in the software business (asphalt / concrete / quarry controls) and he told me that there is a lot of room for negotiation, so play hardball and you might drop the price even further. Most of their money comes from the service / update contracts. As for the updates and support, we quit after about two years (when we all had the program down). Some day we'll have to pay up and get updates, but in the meanwhile we haven't spent the 1-2K? for probably 8 years. Not to mention if the updates are dramatic, I'll have to spend time learning...old dog-new trick syndrome.

Question for you... do you get into hard rock? We're starting a new business out of state that has a lot of rock, very hard. I'm told that they blast trench lines. I'm somewhat nervous about bidding underground in these conditions. We hit rock in CA, but generally can dig it with an occasional hammer in the worst case. Ideas?


----------



## jdaviau (Aug 17, 2007)

I only have experience with 1 software company, Quest. They make an estimating package and an earthworks take-off package I used to work for the company as a trainer. I am thinking of starting my own take-off service, but I need to keep my day job as a chief estimator until I get enough clients to be self sustaining. I would only do site take-off as well as some underground take-off. I currently do take-off for 1 large site contractor and 1 large paving company. I wanted to attached some pics of what Earthworks looks like, but I don't have 15 post yet. I am not trying to sell anything, so don't misunderstand, I am only pointing out a great software, that I get nothing out of for mentioning, other than you possibly finding a user friendly software that has more features than most site contractors use.


----------



## louiejpatino (Dec 31, 2008)

louie j. Patino

Please read our site rules about advertising your services.

www.contractortalk.com/f11/announcement-please-read-site-rules-instructions/


----------



## jdaviau (Aug 17, 2007)

louiejpatino said:


> louie j. Patino
> 
> Please read our site rules about advertising your services.
> 
> www.contractortalk.com/f11/announcement-please-read-site-rules-instructions/


Who's advertising? I said I was thinking about doing something, and clearly stated I wasn't trying to sell anything. What did you read?


----------



## denick (Feb 13, 2006)

jd,

The comment was an edit to the other poster, about his post.


----------



## jdaviau (Aug 17, 2007)

denick said:


> jd,
> 
> The comment was an edit to the other poster, about his post.


It did look like it was a new post to an old comment.


----------

