# how would you handle this scenario?



## cexcavation (Apr 17, 2008)

dayexco said:


> where i disagree here is...he was asked if he could do the job, and what his fee would be to do this....he never once hesitated on saying he couldn't do the job, or that i would be "on my own", or have to wait should he not be able to perform the task he was hired to do.


First response:

I blame my response on Rino!!!:thumbup: I too thought the guy helped you rebore it the second time for free. All professionals make mistakes from time to time, and the way we finish up makes the difference. If this guy bailed on you, then yeah, backbill him for the pipe he goofed up and call it a day. Doesn't sound like he is willing to work off the damage by returning. 

Alternate response:

My only argument against the material is that some guys have stuff laying around vs. new. I have installed "sun burned" sewer pipe, etc. on my own property, but would never risk it on someone else's project. If a homeowner want's me to install their odds and ends, I usually talk them out of it, or let them know if it fails or leaks, it's their baby at that point. If the pipe you supplied was left over from another job, etc. it very well could have contributed to the leakage. Technically the boring company did what they were hired to do other than the leaking pipe. Since they did not supply the pipe and cannot vouch for how it was stored, handled, etc. it would be tough to say. I know pvc gets brittle and loses it's elasticity, so if this contractor can typically pull his own pipe in this manner without issue, then he may be thinking he is being nice by not charging you to pull what he may feel was defective pipe. My question would be was the pipe you supplied hot off the presses, or????? Just something to think about.


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## Upchuck (Apr 7, 2009)

I would deduct the pipe cost from his bill. Being professional not only includes doing the job right but how a person reacts when things don't right.

He's lucky you don't make him wait for the remaining balance.


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## dakzaag (Jan 6, 2009)

I don't know Jack about Jill here, but I have never been paid for something I didn't complete. No excuses, no BS, just "there you go, I'll take my check please."

If he didn't finish, I sure as heck hope you didn't pay him a penny. If you send an invoice for the pipe, the worst he can do is not pay. 

You did mess up by supplying the pipe, he wouldn't be near as independent if his pipe was in the ground.


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## backhoe1 (Mar 30, 2007)

My experience with boring contractors is somewhat limited, but the few times I've been involved, they've showed up with a machine. No material, no hoe to dig their holes, no grade checking equipment, just a boring machine.


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## cexcavation (Apr 17, 2008)

backhoe1 said:


> My experience with boring contractors is somewhat limited, but the few times I've been involved, they've showed up with a machine. No material, no hoe to dig their holes, no grade checking equipment, just a boring machine.


I have the same experience (1 experience total:laughing. I supplied the boring pits as well as the pipe. There were zero issues so I never thought about the pipe issue until now. 

I would say the boring outfits are smart to not provide pipe in one respect. They are providing a boring service and not a plumbing service. The problem is if the pipe fails, who eats the cost. 

In Day's scenario, it definately sounds like the boring crew over stressed the pipe and is at fault. The difficulty is in proving something like that. It is sort of like proving whether or not a soft spot occurred from existing conditions or from the excavation contractor over working the area and "pumping it up".

If the boring crew provided everything, then it is easy to make the call that they are at fault. If we provide the pipe, we inadvertantly hold some liability. From now on, I will probably insist the boring outfit provide the pipe. If they snag it up, bust it, etc. then it is up to them to figure it out and not me.


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## PipeGuy (Oct 8, 2004)

Day-
I just finished a job on which acceptance pressure testing revealed foundry defects in (2) pieces of ductile; in (2) different sizes. In both cases the defects weren't evident upon either casual visual inspection or at working pressures (only high test pressures). Defective pipe does happen and it's not the installers fault. If you went and snatched the pipe out of the bore and found a big tear in it where it had been pulled across an obstacle I'd definitely say it's the sub's fault given the scenario you described (I think the new DD rigs even log the push/pull forces being exerted). Otherwise I'd say the pipe is yours to eat.


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