# Conical Roof onto Cylindrical Turret



## jimAKAblue

As an alternative, we use two studs instead of the 2x8. It all depends on what lumber is lurking around.


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## jimAKAblue

These stairs don't have anything to do with the cone other than they are in the same folder on the same house. 

We install our stairs before we install the joist. The stairmaster would begin installing the stairs as soon as the interior partitions were being framed. We always wanted them done far in advance of the "straightening" process. We did this because we are too lazy to climb ladders.


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## jimAKAblue

Heres a shot of the stairs from the attic


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## jimAKAblue

Heres some shots of the walls being framed before we raised it.


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## jimAKAblue

Heres a shot of the tower standing from the street and from behind. We put as much cornice on as we could.


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## getthewheelsinl

Thanks for the photos Jim.

Thankfully I only need to replace the conical roof as the turret is in sandstone. As can be seen in the potograph the orginal cone had a variable pitch. Can you confirm the reason for this? Is this purely to slow the rain water to ensure that the gutter captures the rain?


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## jimAKAblue

I think the variable pitch is done for aesthetics. It's a beautiful feature. 

It would not be hard for you to duplicate that feature. Basically, the main rafters would be straight and they would bear on the wall. The curved portion of the roof would be added onto the main roof after you had it standing. 

The "flare" is anchored by the cornice system. 

I think if you drew up that same roof without the flared bottom, that you would be unhappy.


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## Aframe

getthewheelsinl said:


> thanks for all the reply's guys!!
> 
> Is cross bonding the sarking OTT? as per the below:
> 
> Although It looks like a nice smooth cone!!





jimAKAblue said:


> That looks smooth enough for my standards!
> 
> I guess SeeYou's looked about the same.
> 
> Now my big worry would be finding 1x6 like that. Most of the stuff I've used had too many big knots and it would break if I tried to bend it like that.



Not the fastest way, but what about ripping sheet goods to use in this manor.


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## jimAKAblue

Aframe said:


> Not the fastest way, but what about ripping sheet goods to use in this manor.


Sheet goods are tricky to bend. They like to snap because the underlying plys aren't that good. 

That roof looks stout indeed!


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## seeyou

jimAKAblue said:


> Sheet goods are tricky to bend. They like to snap because the underlying plys aren't that good.
> 
> That roof looks stout indeed!


Hey Arrogant Hackmaster - where's the rest of the framing pics? It was just getting good.


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## jimAKAblue

Grant, I was tied up in that "framing tips" showdown. Sorry. 

Anyways, here's the tower. It's ready for a roof but there's still some plywood stacked up there. We were using that area as a staging area to sheath the upper roof.


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## jimAKAblue

The first thing I had to do to get that roof on was to come up with a game plan. I decided that the best place to tackle this beast was right up there in the tower attic! 

These three pictures are essentially me surveying my situation. I moved the excess plywood off the ceiling rafters and laid a couple sheets down as my work platform. I then carved off the edges so I could access the plates. 

I gather all my tools that I'll need (not much) and decided that the adjoining roof will be a great place to stage the pile of rafter stock that I'll be needing. I've got my saw, nailgun, sawhorses, square and it appears I have some papers there. 

I don't know what that paper is. It might have been some crib sheets from the guys back at BT (Breaktime forum). I remember that I tried to get some help in figuring how to draw the segment of the roofline as it would occur when I lay the round roof over the main roof. 

The crib sheet and the help from BT was useless. I couldn't get any starting points on the main roof. Finding the centerlines was possible but it was going to take me more time to mock up the main plane and I decided that I'd just....well...I hate to say it....BOOGER IT! 

Hell yah.....Boogerin' Blue rears his ugly head again LOL!


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## jimAKAblue

The first step I take is to make a common pattern. This is a steep roof (16/12) and therefore it has a very tall heel. 

Like always, I calculate the total run from fascia to fascia (as opposed to plate to plate), and total rise from fascia to peak. A quick Pythagorean calculation using those totals gives me my total rafter length. I cut my pattern and step up a mark for the heel line. 

I add my "heel block" and voila....I have my first "truss". 

DOH!!!!! Dum Dum Dum! I attached the heel block to the wrong end of the rafter!


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## seeyou

I figured you would have framed it on the ground and craned it in.
I'll have to seek out the framing thread. I haven't seen it. Any name calling going on?


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## jimAKAblue

I recover quickly from the shock of making a mistake...mainly because I'm well practiced at muffing things up. 

So, I attach the heel block to the proper end and then cut the heel block to length. Now, everything looks better. I can now use the pattern to cut additional rafters and also I use it as a "bench" to assemble the next rafters. 

I only make two "trusses" this size. They will lay against each other to start the roof.


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## jimAKAblue

seeyou said:


> I figured you would have framed it on the ground and craned it in.
> I'll have to seek out the framing thread. I haven't seen it. Any name calling going on?


Yes, there was some friendly name calling going on. That's how I won my new moniker LOL.


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## jimAKAblue

seeyou said:


> I figured you would have framed it on the ground and craned it in.
> I'll have to seek out the framing thread. I haven't seen it. Any name calling going on?


There is a point when trying to frame things on the roof doesn't make sense. In this case, there are several factors that come into play. 1) I have very comfortable and ample work area. I'm working on a flat platform and to me, it's just as comfortable as being on the ground. 2)the roof will lay over the in the back. The two roofs merge and I don't want to try to figure out exactly where, or how. 3) I have a great place to stage my materials. I like this better than on the ground because I don't have to bend to pick things up (my back doesn't like bending over. 4)To build the roof on the ground, I would have to devote some serious time to create a staging area. It makes more sense to just work off the existing plates and overhangs because they are already up there, level, rounded, etc. 5)I have a nice place to sit down and rest. 6)No one will walk up and bother me with small talk. They'd need to climb a ladder and that would take too much effort. 

I really never even considered building that on the ground. The big advantage would be the application of the sheathing but they did that out of the skybox, so that advantage would be negligible.


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## seeyou

*I really never even considered building that on the ground. The big advantage would be the application of the sheathing but they did that out of the skybox, so that advantage would be negligible.

*OK, I see now that about half of the cone lands on the other roof plane. Most I've worked on have a cricket behind them, but are assembled as a full cone outside the major roof plane.


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## jimAKAblue

Grant, the thread you seek was called "Framing Tips". There wasn't really anything going on...just the normal puffing of chests. 

Back to the cone roof....

Before I stand up these two rafters, I take a small cutoff chunk and use it to measure how much I need to shorten the next sets of rafters. As you can see, the next pair gets shortened by 1 3/8" and gets a square cut. The following pair gets 2 7/8" knocked off. This number will correspond to the short part of a beveled cut (its a 45 degree cut).


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## jimAKAblue

seeyou said:


> *I really never even considered building that on the ground. The big advantage would be the application of the sheathing but they did that out of the skybox, so that advantage would be negligible.
> 
> *OK, I see now that about half of the cone lands on the other roof plane. Most I've worked on have a cricket behind them, but are assembled as a full cone outside the major roof plane.


A full cone would be a snap. I probably would have given some thought to framing that on the deck before we got the walls in the way and then set it aside. That would appeal to me because of the time savings associated with sheathing it.


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## jimAKAblue

So, after getting my numbers, I built cut my next pair of rafters and set up the first tripod.


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## jimAKAblue

At this point...so far, so good. Now come the hard part...I'm going to have to install the opposing rafter that lays onto the roof and I have no way of calculating it. Pause. think, think, think. Scratch head. 

Light bulb!


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## jimAKAblue

I remembered my lessons from Felix the Cat and pulled a tool out of my bag....a torpedo level! 

I cut a plumb cut on a rafter and flipped it upside down. I also placed a level nail up at the peak and allowed the rafter to rest against it in the exact plane that it would be when installed. 

By riding the rafter up and down until the bubble was plumb, I found the highest point that the roof would land. The hardest part about finding the length of this rafter was taking the picture! 

After a quick eyeball bottom cut...the rafter fits perfectly!


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## getthewheelsinl

Good work Jim!! :thumbsup:

So I assume your conical roof is supported onto the turret via the heal blocks you add to the rafters. 

With my roof I would just run my rafters down to the ring beam on the wall (which is 800mm deep) and then add the flared rafters to these.

What length are your rafters?


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## jimAKAblue

getthewheelsinl said:


> Good work Jim!! :thumbsup:
> 
> So I assume your conical roof is supported onto the turret via the heal blocks you add to the rafters.
> 
> With my roof I would just run my rafters down to the ring beam on the wall (which is 800mm deep) and then add the flared rafters to these.
> 
> What length are your rafters?


Yes, you are interpreting the pictures correctly. 

And yes, your best bet will be to do just as you are saying. It will be a lot easier than it appears. 

We probably shoulda flared our cone roof to match the flares on the other gables but I wasn't the architect or the designer on this one.


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## jimAKAblue

Moving along.....


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## getthewheelsinl

Excellent! I am enjoying your photographs - your framing looks very tidy - keep them coming!

I plan to do the drawings for the planning application then hand over to the strutrual engineer to advise framing specification etc.

I still plan to have the full cone seathed & slated on the ground before craning onto the wall. Only thing to confirm is weither the framework will be Wood or Steel.


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## jimAKAblue

Some more.....


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## jimAKAblue

getthewheelsinl said:


> Excellent! I am enjoying your photographs - your framing looks very tidy - keep them coming!
> 
> I plan to do the drawings for the planning application then hand over to the strutrual engineer to advise framing specification etc.
> 
> I still plan to have the full cone seathed & slated on the ground before craning onto the wall. Only thing to confirm is weither the framework will be Wood or Steel.


As much as I like wood, I think steel would be easier. The most complicated thing would be to build in a pick point for such a heavily loaded assembly.


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## getthewheelsinl

jimAKAblue said:


> As much as I like wood, I think steel would be easier. The most complicated thing would be to build in a pick point for such a heavily loaded assembly.


Yeah - need to work out what the full assembly will weigh. 
All ready looking at different lifting point options. Having a single M72 eyebolt (capacity 25 Tonnes.) secured to the top center ring might be the best option.


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## jimAKAblue

Heres some more pics..I'm almost done with the framing. 

The last pic shows the finished valley in between the cone roof and that steep roof. When I'm up there, I just keep carving stuff in till it all works. There's no formula for it all...just get yourself a modified hack saw (like my Makita) and carve away!


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## jimAKAblue

Here's some closeups of the beaver pile and a final look from down below.


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## jimAKAblue

This close up in an interesting picture because it shows what can be done with an ordinary skill saw.

The rafters with the 45 degee cuts are easy. It's the next ones that get interesting. I literally carve them using my modified Makita. Because the exterior extended table is removed, I can lay the saw down on an extreme angle to make those cuts in one pass. I mark the plumb cut and then, leaving the table at it's normal 90 degree position, lay the saw over and make the cut. I get the full depth of the blade in this position. 

No sawzalls for me....


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## jimAKAblue

Shall we sheath it? 

Luckily, the boys volunteered to sheath the beast. I was dreading that because I remember my first time sheating a round roof and it was brutal. 

I looked over into the family room and saw Steve down there. He said he was precutting the plywood for the turret. I was dumbfounded and awestruck. I had no clue how to do that and I was surprised the he knew. 

He said "Its really simple....blah...blah..blah...". Sure enough, after I listened to his explanation, I agreed...it is simple.


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## jimAKAblue

Sheathing these things suck.


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## jimAKAblue

Luckily, I was the boss and I could make the men do it.


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## jimAKAblue

Heres some pics of the house when it was getting roofed. I have some finshed pics after brick but they are in another computer. I'll rummage around and post them.


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## smeagol

nice pics:thumbsup:


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## FramingPro

getthewheelsinl said:


> Hello,
> I am considering replacing the conical roof on my parent’s house in Scotland. This was burnt in a fire in the late 60’s.
> This is a painting commissioned before the fire.
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> This is a photograph as it stands today.
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> I was looking for some advice/ direction on the typical design of the internal wood framing of this type of roof . Any website recommendations or even reference books you could suggest I look at?
> I own my own engineering company and have steelwork fabrication facilities. With this in mind I was going to build the back bone, ring beam etc in steel then add wood rafters. My first thoughts are to build this at ground level then crane up into position fully clad with wood and slated?!? Do you think this is possible?
> I project managed their last project – rebuilding of their sunroom at the front of their house.
> Demolition of old Sunroom, new foundations, Steelwork Framework, Internal wooden kit, External quarried stone, roof, slating etc. etc
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> Thanks in advance,
> Callum Smith B.Eng Hons.
> Mechanical Engineer



that is a nice house
for rafters your radius is your run, once you have all 4 in you have to make some weird angle adjustments to get everything to fit. maybe consider making a 10 sided 6x6 post that your rafters will hit


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## FramingPro

jimAKAblue said:


> The first step I take is to make a common pattern. This is a steep roof (16/12) and therefore it has a very tall heel.
> 
> Like always, I calculate the total run from fascia to fascia (as opposed to plate to plate), and total rise from fascia to peak. A quick Pythagorean calculation using those totals gives me my total rafter length. I cut my pattern and step up a mark for the heel line.
> 
> I add my "heel block" and voila....I have my first "truss".
> 
> DOH!!!!! Dum Dum Dum! I attached the heel block to the wrong end of the rafter!


why from fascia to fascia? and why from fascia to peak? for reveal purposes on the soffit?


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## getthewheelsinl

Hi All, not been in touch for a while! Progress has been made on the roof!! Design done and we decided to go with metal as the main frame construction. Fabrication has started on the main ring beams...photograph attached.. I will upload some more photographs later on and as the build progresses in case anyone is interested!
Thanks, Callum


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## getthewheelsinl

*progress*

Hi all!!! Some more progress.....slow I know as this is a part time project....

All ring beams fabricated, center pole lifted and secured, now just to position the ring beams/spokes at the correct heights. C16 wood rafters have been delivered, so it's all go!!










Comments welcome...:thumbsup:


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## getthewheelsinl

Some more work on the framing....


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## getthewheelsinl

Some progress albeit slow...we have used 9mm plywood as the base layer & over clad this with 18mm thk, 75mm wide sarking. just need to start the concave bottom section now...
Callum


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## getthewheelsinl

Felted the cone section, now onto the concave rafters....hopefully with a little help from my niece & nephew we will get the 9mm ply & sarking on tomorrow!!


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## kage

i'm waiting....:thumbup:


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## Aaron Berk

Very fascinating thread, I like the wood and metal combo.

But I think I would have been tempted to timber frame the whole thing.

Callum, :thumbsup: awesome stuff!


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## getthewheelsinl

Aaron Berk said:


> Very fascinating thread, I like the wood and metal combo.
> 
> But I think I would have been tempted to timber frame the whole thing.
> 
> Callum, :thumbsup: awesome stuff!


Thanks! I'm more skilled with metal than wood ..... That's the main reason!! 

Hopefully have it slated & craned into place by the end of the year!! It just crazy how many hours this type of project (for a novice!!) sucks up!!!

Callum


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## ohiohomedoctor

getthewheelsinl said:


> Thanks! I'm more skilled with metal than wood ..... That's the main reason!!
> 
> Hopefully have it slated & craned into place by the end of the year!! It just crazy how many hours this type of project (for a novice!!) sucks up!!!
> 
> Callum


Your not a novice .. :no:


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## getthewheelsinl

ohiohomedoctor said:


> Your not a novice .. :no:


Thanks, however, certainly not my trade! Me & my father just like a challenge...this has just been our project we do at weekends, hence the slow pace!! Just trying to do everything correctly!! 

P.S. Was in Ohio in 2008 - I enjoyed it!!


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## Roofsafe

Interesting thread, nice work.


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## getthewheelsinl

Some progress.... The lower conical / concave section was awkward!! Best solution we found was cutting 9mm plywood sections to go between each rafter. Now just cross bonding these with 18mm sarking!!!

Currently just trying to source reasonably priced radiused gutter. Few Aluminium gutter casting companies want between £4k - 7k....

Anyway, some photos....


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## catfish

like this?


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## getthewheelsinl

catfish said:


> like this?


Like what?


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## catfish

getthewheelsinl said:


> Like what?


the pictures not showing up? They show up here.

Also, I posted before reading the whole thread, didn't realize he was done.


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## getthewheelsinl

catfish said:


> the pictures not showing up? They show up here.
> 
> Also, I posted before reading the whole thread, didn't realize he was done.


Pictures showing up fine - I was just unsure as to what you were trying to show me. Did you build this?


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## catfish

I was the lead framer, and also laid out and fabbed the panels for the roof.


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## getthewheelsinl

catfish said:


> I was the lead framer, and also laid out and fabbed the panels for the roof.


Looks nice, more domed than conical but I can appreicate the effort that you put in!! After felting, we are going to cut and fit slate...another slow process I guessing!!


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## catfish

We used ice and water on those domes. I call them bullets.

Yes, slate is not quick at its fastest.


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## getthewheelsinl

Slating has just commenced...SLOW progress but getting there!! 









Target completion is JULY.....

Got radiused gutter to organise; thinking cast Aluminium. Also got the top weather vane to design.


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