# Knockdown Ceiling?



## Rich333 (May 13, 2017)

Hi everyone, my husband and I had a electrical contracting business and have seen a lot of new construction. We just retired and moved out of state and put a deposit on a home that is under construction. My husband spoke with the drywall contractor who suggested a knockdown ceiling in our open floor plan living area that has vaulted ceilings and lots of natural light. He said when the light hits the ceiling we will see all the flaws and the knockdown will reflect the light better. Hum. I don't know what to think of that. I've seen plenty of new construction where we're from and never really noticed flaws in the ceiling. We would usually see textured ceilings in older homes that needed flaws covered up. It also seems like a dated style.

So I guess my questions are:
On new construction would a textured ceiling really be needed if they do a good job?
Can a knockdown ceiling be easily painted?
And how much more should it cost?
Is it a dated style.
Thanks for any and all input.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Rich333 said:


> ....
> So I guess my questions are:
> On new construction would a textured ceiling really be needed if they do a good job?
> 
> ...


Good luck on your house.

I'm assuming you are talking about knock down blown texture.

I've done a couple of pretty nice homes and can not imaging a level 5 finish on a ceiling.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Pretty much agree with Griz.

We seldom see a level 5 ceiling finish around here, yet they're usually quite acceptable with a lower level finish and no texture.

In this area, knockdown is definitely dated. It's only used to cover up sub-par work in rentals for the most part.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

Every house here seems to have knockdown these days, unless it is a hand texture. I've been doing smooth wall, but not to a real level 5.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## PCI (Jun 8, 2012)

We're seeing and doing more smooth ceilings and bringing back the 10"race track around the perimeter.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

A knockdown will not hide the flaws much better than a smooth finish in the situation you describe. I did drywall for years and knew a few guys who would suggest knockdown just to get out of doing a smooth finish because either they didn't want to deal with the problems of doing a level five and the constant touch up or they were just too busy to deal with it. If you want no texture I suggest finding someone who is experienced with it because not all drywallers are experienced with it. Expect to pay a little more. On the other hand, I would suggest a hand texture and not a knockdown.


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## avenge (Sep 25, 2008)

If you're talking about blown knockdown, here it's used in apartments and low cost housing on walls, I've never seen it on a ceiling. Almost all textures are considered outdated in my area.

I would never texture a ceiling with an acceptable finish.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Here it is very rare to find a house without texture. But one of my clients is starting to switch to it.


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## John1957 (Nov 20, 2016)

Rich333 said:


> Hi everyone, my husband and I had a electrical contracting business and have seen a lot of new construction. We just retired and moved out of state and put a deposit on a home that is under construction. My husband spoke with the drywall contractor who suggested a knockdown ceiling in our open floor plan living area that has vaulted ceilings and lots of natural light. He said when the light hits the ceiling we will see all the flaws and the knockdown will reflect the light better. Hum. I don't know what to think of that. I've seen plenty of new construction where we're from and never really noticed flaws in the ceiling. We would usually see textured ceilings in older homes that needed flaws covered up. It also seems like a dated style.
> 
> So I guess my questions are:
> On new construction would a textured ceiling really be needed if they do a good job?
> ...


Slick walls and ceilings never go out of style, and they don't collect all the dust that texture does. 

But, I think knockdown looks great when it done by competent crews. I am beginning to see more & more knockdown jobs being done by real hacks in my area. I do some pretty nice knockdown tie in & repair work, but my son does a much more appealing knockdown on the larger sprays that we do on occasion. He has a knack for the right mix, depth, and pattern. Will pull our knockdown with a very flexible 24" lexan blade so not to kill the nice nugget depth, and to avoid those gross looking large smears. We also walk the walls before spraying to feel for any humping and make a mental note of them. A lot of crews pull the blade the wrong way over humps creating those slick looking smears. Many crews also use knockdown blades that are too stiff which contribute to slick smears and edge marks in the finish. 

I got to witness the results of a knockdown job that was completed by 3 hacks a couple months ago for a cheapskate flipper who tried to save a few bucks with a crew that he had no knowledge of. After they finished spraying, the flipper asked me to please come by and look at the job because *he thought* it didn't look like knockdown and he was very upset. The crew had left for the night and left everything laying out. None of the windows, doors, ceiling fans, vents were protected. The place was a freaking disaster and would take many hours to clean. Their spray equipment which had been laying out in the garage consisted of a tiny Porter Cable nail gun compressor, Kobalt hopper, and 10" drywall knives for knocking down. Their finished knockdown looked more like a combination of orange peel, skip troweling, large slick areas, and knife edging. The cheapskate got the results he deserved by hiring unknown hacks just to save a few bucks, and I couldn't stop laughing as we walked the house. I did ask him if this was supposed to be their "economy spray package" :thumbup: We haven't spoken since and I could care less. 

What ever finish you decide to go with, make sure the crew is experienced with a solid reputation.


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## Rich333 (May 13, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your replies. Unfortunately we didn't hire a builder to build for us, but rather came across a house in the process of being built without a home owner. It never accorded to us to ask how the ceilings were going to be done because were we're from knockdown is only done on renovations where there are a lot of flaws in the ceiling.

It seems every time we turn around there is a extra cost for doing something the right way.

We didn't get to pick any of the subs. The drywall has been delivered and it goes up tomorrow. I guess we'll just have to pay to not have knockdown. Any idea on the % more it should be? They really have us by the B _ _ _s.

Thanks


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

Rich333 said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies. Unfortunately we didn't hire a builder to build for us, but rather came across a house in the process of being built without a home owner. It never accorded to us to ask how the ceilings were going to be done because were we're from knockdown is only done on renovations where there are a lot of flaws in the ceiling.
> 
> It seems every time we turn around there is a extra cost for doing something the right way.
> 
> ...


Out west, southwest and here in CO texture/knockdown is the norm. I like the look and I like doing it. In younger days I used to do 2 coats of mud and have it ready for spraying and knockdown. It paints easily (of course airless is a breeze) but even rolling it ain't bad at all. I don't think knockdown looks cheap at all as most high end homes around here all have it. I think it's a classy look. Smooth walls look dull and boring to me (and pricey-er). ( is that a word ?)


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## Rich333 (May 13, 2017)

kirkdc said:


> Out west, southwest and here in CO texture/knockdown is the norm. I like the look and I like doing it. In younger days I used to do 2 coats of mud and have it ready for spraying and knockdown. It paints easily (of course airless is a breeze) but even rolling it ain't bad at all. I don't think knockdown looks cheap at all as most high end homes around here all have it. I think it's a classy look. Smooth walls look dull and boring to me (and pricey-er). ( is that a word ?)


I am seeing that it varies from region to region. We're from the North East and clean smooth surfaces are standard in new construction. Not sure the norm in Eastern TN.

I guess it's a good thing this house was priced below our budget so we have extra money to spend


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Flat smooth ceilings and walls drive me nucking futs.....

looks unfinished and are great if you live in a house that is like it is a perpetual magazine cover. Forget it if there are kids around. The slightest imperfections are magnified. Due to the constant state of framing components moving and the earth rotating a perfect Level 5 finish don't look quite that way a year later. And heaven forbid if you slap a fly or spider on that dam smooth wall.....

when i speak of knock down texture it is professionally applied by a high quality tradesman over an equally high quality drywall job.

There are no hacks involved.
A hack texture job is absolutely no comparison to a pro job.

Dust has never been an issue either.


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## Rich333 (May 13, 2017)

griz said:


> Flat smooth ceilings and walls drive me nucking futs.....
> 
> looks unfinished and are great if you live in a house that is like it is a perpetual magazine cover. Forget it if there are kids around. The slightest imperfections are magnified. Due to the constant state of framing components moving and the earth rotating a perfect Level 5 finish don't look quite that way a year later. And heaven forbid if you slap a fly or spider on that dam smooth wall.....
> 
> ...


Our problem is, we have no idea if the drywall contractor is a pro or hack. We didn't hire him and aren't from here so we don't know anyone to ask for a recommendation. Some of the subs on this house are the best we have ever seen, like the plumber. Others are the worst we have ever seen like the HVAC guy who is also doing the gas lines. He's so bad my husband is afraid the house will blow up. They didn't put a pressure test on the gas line so my husband went out and got one, AND sure enough it lost about 25lbs of pressure in a hour. I can live with a bad drywall job but not leaking gas. We will be putting in a gas detector. 

I guess my husband will have to show up while they are spackling and inspect the work. The builder is only interested in getting the house finished as fast as possible so he can make his money, he doesn't seem to care if the gas leaks or not.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Rich333 said:


> Our problem is, we have no idea if the drywall contractor is a pro or hack. We didn't hire him and aren't from here so we don't know anyone to ask for a recommendation. Some of the subs on this house are the best we have ever seen, like the plumber. Others are the worst we have ever seen like the HVAC guy who is also doing the gas lines. He's so bad my husband is afraid the house will blow up. They didn't put a pressure test on the gas line so my husband went out and got one, AND sure enough it lost about 25lbs of pressure in a hour. I can live with a bad drywall job but not leaking gas. We will be putting in a gas detector.
> 
> I guess my husband will have to show up while they are spackling and inspect the work. The builder is only interested in getting the finished so he can make his money, he doesn't seem to care if the gas leaks or not.


Tell the builder about the pressure test and that you will refuse to accept the job until the line holds pressure. If your AHJ don't care ask the local Fire Dept. or the gas company.

Ask to see other jobs the drywall guy has done and go from there.

Knockdown can be very light or applied so it dam near looks like stucco. Know what he is planning on doing before he does it.


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

My jobs are 90% smooth with a little roller stipple. Like orange peel dialed down 90%. This is to match the old homes with high quality plaster work. Everyone has their opinion, but I prefer smooth all around. Best quality will have a full skim coat or two. Never had much trouble making a big room with lots of windows look good.

Griz is right though, touch up is pretty difficult.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

FWIW...... ALL drywall has flaws in it. It always cracks me up to hear people say that. Anywhere from the screws to the use of wood framing. If your house is wood framed (which most are), there are flaws in your drywall. It all just depends on how much you spend on the finishing.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

When I did drywall work I'd recommend spray texture with knockdown on the walls ( light to medium) and just a orange peel spray on the ceiling. It brought in some contrast and was easier. 

I'm with Griz..smooth walls are butt ugly ! and expensive and even worse making it a 5 when the framing was hacked or the rock was hung poorly. 

Who cares what the Jones's are doing?


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

I didn't realize this was a Ford vs Chevy discussion. I'm not trying to be an azz when I say I walk into a place with texture and immediately think it's lower quality. It's just my perception.


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## tjbnwi (Feb 24, 2009)

I have to repair a knockdown finish in a couple of weeks. Never did one before, they're not common around here (the repair is in CO.). I'm looking forward to figuring it out.

Tom


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

tjbnwi said:


> I have to repair a knockdown finish in a couple of weeks. Never did one before, they're not common around here (the repair is in CO.). I'm looking forward to figuring it out.
> 
> Tom


Pretty easy.

You need to fool with the mud to get the consistency that will match.

Then the air pressure, distance of tip from ceiling, tip size and speed at which you are moving. Then how long the texture sets for and how hard you knock it down.

Not as bad as it sounds just takes a little fooling with....


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

tjbnwi said:


> I have to repair a knockdown finish in a couple of weeks. Never did one before, they're not common around here (the repair is in CO.). I'm looking forward to figuring it out.
> 
> Tom



I always used a piece of old drywall to test patterns out before I go for the gusto. I'd vary the gun pressure, thin or thicken the mud and try using different sized brass orifices in my texture gun. 

For very small area that canned spray texture works pretty good. They make a heavy and a light. 

If you can't get a good match sometimes you have to just bite the bullet and do an entire wall...depends on the area involved. And the HO. 

I'm no drywall expert though..maybe some finish guys will chime in.


edit: beat me to it, Grizz..lol


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

You guys pretty much covered it. But one thing that will make your life extremely easy would be to make sure you have a 90 degree shut off valve where the air goes into the gun. Mix the mud to a pourable consistency but no further than that or it will sag.

The valve will let you adjust the air pressure quickly and easily


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## Lettusbee (May 8, 2010)

As to when to knock it down, wait for the edges of the spatter to dry. Then hit it with the knockdown knife. 

I'm in Colorado, and knockdown texture screams tract home to me. 

Every trackie here was orange peel with popcorn ceilings from the 60s to the late 80s. Then in the 90s knockdown was ubiquitous. Ceilings and walls. It is easy to prep for, easy to patch, easy to paint. And if I hadn't seen it in thousands of tract homes, I'd probably like it. At this point I'm just nauseated by it. 

I like smooth walls, but now I'm afraid to admit it. Might get kicked off the forums. :jester:


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## Rich333 (May 13, 2017)

Lettusbee said:


> As to when to knock it down, wait for the edges of the spatter to dry. Then hit it with the knockdown knife.
> 
> I'm in Colorado, and knockdown texture screams tract home to me.
> 
> ...


We're from NJ and knockdown was a 70"s thing. After that you would only see it done on renovations where the ceiling was in bad shape and knockdown was cheaper the re-rocking the ceiling. They don't even use it in low-income housing up there.


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## Rich333 (May 13, 2017)

The Beach Boys were on to something when they sang about how girls were different in different parts of the country. It seems it applies to taste in wall/ceiling finish too, it's different region to region


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## Golden view (Feb 16, 2012)

A friend just bought a 70s split level house and she was excited because that was here favorite layout. Maybe people are fond of what they grew up with. Because no one should like a 70s split level.


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## Rich333 (May 13, 2017)

Golden view said:


> A friend just bought a 70s split level house and she was excited because that was here favorite layout. Maybe people are fond of what they grew up with. Because no one should like a 70s split level.


lol. your friend must be young, because when you get older you don't want to be going up and down steps all day.


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## kirkdc (Feb 16, 2017)

My favorite is the super heavy knockdown put on and done with a trowel. An Old Mediterranean/Sante Fe type ? It has to be dome right though. It has lots of names..skip trowel, Old Spanish too. You see it in a lot of The Olive Garden restaurants.


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