# Tarkett vs Armstrong VCT Tile



## ernesto (Apr 11, 2011)

OMG, just got a call from a contractor with 20, 2,000sf plus homes and wants a bid on installing Armstrong Excellon vct. He supplies everything. But he is building on the reservation which scares me. I'm thinking a buck fitty.


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

2.25.more like it.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

ernesto said:


> OMG, just got a call from a contractor with 20, 2,000sf plus homes and wants a bid on installing Armstrong Excellon vct. He supplies everything. But he is building on the reservation which scares me. I'm thinking a buck fitty.


I bet you a litre of Captain Private Stock you get your throat slit like a field dressed hog at that price.....


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## Floormasta78 (Apr 6, 2011)

Lol...


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## ernesto (Apr 11, 2011)

PrecisionFloors said:


> I bet you a litre of Captain Private Stock you get your throat slit like a field dressed hog at that price.....


Ha ha, yea. But I can install a chit load of vct in one day. Kinda worried about someone else doing my floor prep too. I just checked out the floorplans. Not so great. 

This job may belong in the thread: Ever bid a job you hoped you'd get & not get at the same time. I've worked on the res before, it's a 75 mile hike one way.


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## Metro M & L (Jun 3, 2009)

You're only covering maybe 500 feet in ea. home though right?


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## ernesto (Apr 11, 2011)

Metro M & L said:


> You're only covering maybe 500 feet in ea. home though right?


Nope, the entire home/s, three models, 3 bedroom, 4 and 5 bedrooms. If I had a trailer to live in I might give it a shot.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

ernesto said:


> Nope, the entire home/s, three models, 3 bedroom, 4 and 5 bedrooms. If I had a trailer to live in I might give it a shot.


************************
It's not much of a "home" if there's VCT on the floor. 

I'd prefer concrete. I think painted concrete is what we had on the floor of the projects downtown where I lived a few year when I was very young. 

Where I've installed VCT in residential settings it's been mostly Section 8, military housing or nursing homes. 

In all cases it's been for MANY reasons a very labor intensive process-------I don't think any of what I've done listed above was new construction. So that's obviously more complicated. But VCT gets lumped in with the concept of mass production and cheap labor prices which makes sense ONLY where you have very little prep and easy cutting circumstances. 

You're not going to find any of that in any government housing project. I'll wager on that.


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## rusty baker (Jun 14, 2008)

All the public housing here has VCT. Easy installs. I have done most of them.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

rusty baker said:


> All the public housing here has VCT. Easy installs. I have done most of them.


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I'm reminded of one OCCUPIED elderly housing project in New Britain, CT I did as an apprentice, must've been 1978-1979. Two or three guys from the city would move out the furniture first thing in the morning. The residents were mostly little old ladies with a lifetime of knick knacks crammed into a tiny one bedroom or sharing a two bedroom apartment. So they'd be standing right there in the way half the time in a panic about their furniture and priceless momentos, nagging about us invading their homes and asking a millions questions all day long with nowheres to go but rest like a parrot on your shoulder. 

Then we had to sand the hardwood, lay down felt paper, install Amtico's white VCT and scribe fit to existing wood base. Everything had to be back in order by quitting time so the old ladies could be back in their units. 

Some of the 2nd floor units were so heavily crammed with stuff they made us do them in 2-3 sections so they didn't have to haul everything down the stairs. We're talking SMALL apartments 10-12 cartons of tile tops. 

Amtico tile was WAY worse even than Azrock as far as consistency of size and shape. But it doesn't matter much when the biggest room on the job is 9'x10'. 

As an apprentice I wasn't really hip to our production rates but I remember the boss was freaking out every morning when we came in to load up the vans and head out. He was always yelling at the journeyman that they needed to get more done. 

That's NOT a job that should even be bid out at fixed pricing. You ought to know better something like that needs to be time and material.


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## ernesto (Apr 11, 2011)

BKM Resilient said:


> ***********************
> 
> That's NOT a job that should even be bid out at fixed pricing. You ought to know better something like that needs to be time and material.


Good luck with T&M out here.


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## BKM Resilient (May 2, 2009)

ernesto said:


> Good luck with T&M out here.


**********************************
Well, it's still a standard "racket" to go in low on bids and then trawl the site for change orders. While you're absolutely correct that no one is willing to do straight up T&M anymore-------It's probably the first chapter in Superintendent 101 class-------but it's just as impossible for us as flooring subs to come in and accept the horrible site conditions without either walking away or re-writing the contract, banging them for all the extras they've created by hiring idiot concrete, carpentry, drywall, plumber and painting subs. 

All you know nowadays when you bid off a set of plans is that there's about a zero percent chance you'll walk into a site with the conditions you've agreed to in the contract. 

So that's another funny story. I was sent out as a "consultant" by a factory to show another flooring contractor how to fix a screwed up job and then do it right. The shop owner told me his story. He used to work an an hourly guy for a shop that did flooring for a huge defense contractor. Through being the foreman and writing up all the change orders he learned how the "racket" worked. His boss was always the low bidder by coming in dirt cheap on the glue-down carpet. Actually he could bid it at cost. Then he made a small fortune on moving furniture, demolition, overtime premiums, cove base, floor prep, etc. Once he learned the gimmicks he got his license and stole the account using the same dirtball tactics. You just had to have an "inside man" with the corporation who would sign off on the change orders. He knew exactly who to go to. 

So the best part of the story is he's got a crew of 3-4 guys. They're to demo existing carpet and base and replace with new. He's making NOTHING, actually losing a few pennies on the carpet but BANGING them on the cove base and premium time for working Saturday and Sunday. His installers realize the existing base is in perfect condition. It's not even scratched bay the carpet demo and install. Hell, they don't want to work LONG ass weekends so they leave it all up----shortening up their day considerably. 

I guess a few weekends go by before the boss realizes they're not pulling off the base and replacing with new. Instead of being happy with his installers for being honest and efficient he's got to chew them out for corrupting his corrupt scheme. 

Anyway, I think that's a great little story------and it's a big part of why the customers are by now hip to the T&M rackets. We (the construction industry) cut off our own foot by exploiting the trust of the customer and now it's near impossible to get a fair T&M deal.


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