# Does anyone make any real money on tile showers?



## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Are tile showers stupid competitive in your area?

Most all the guys who do tile showers in my area are either subs for a flooring retailer or work directly for a flooring retailer as installers. (But they are all 1099's even if they are employees)

On the labor end all the quotes I come across seem way low to me. I can only conclude that the money must be in selling the tile products and supplies.

I'm not a distributor and am wondering if its even worth messing with tile showers anymore. I don't care to compete on the labor end being that my overhead is higher as a full service remodeler and I'm more ambitious in what I want to make money-wise.

I know I'm at a disadvantage being that I'm not a flooring retailer/distributor with buying power. 

So I pretty much know I'm going to get beat on materials as well as labor if I have to compete on price point. 

Obviously I can sell myself from other aspects and I still do land a few showers, but it is a small percentage and I waste a lot of time looking at them and estimating. I'm wondering if its worth it.

Just wanted to start a discussion and see if anyone had any thoughts experience on the subject...


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## srwcontracting (Dec 11, 2009)

I absolutely think it's worth doing
I wish that's all I did was showers

Most installations that I've seen from guys like that are super basic. Nothing above and beyond

I think once you establish a good portfolio of showers, it helps sell them

I've never worried about competition like that.....probably because I am the one looking at the job and doing the work
Most people prefer that scenario and will pay a bit more for it


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## Rhode Island (Mar 24, 2015)

I just took a bath on the shower I did. Customer supplied all the tile. It took forever, the plumber ruined the floor twice, and the customer took a shower prior to me grouting. He didn't realize grout was needed. He felt the tile though and they were hard......idiots. It took me 3 weeks and I still need to go back 1 time.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

How much lower are their bids compared to yours?


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## MarkJames (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm getting away from them for the reasons you mention. Too many folks are recommending "this great guy who's reasonable", even when they're terrible. And they use older, cheap methods. My friend just did a shower and bought everything online and drove the contractor nuts. The work hours they put into that thing was immense. No way that guy made reasonable money.

It's along the lines of my other thread regarding "total time" for jobs. When I add up all the time for these, end to end, It's nothing to get jazzed up about anymore.

Around here the installers all have tons of pics on their phone and close quick and fast. No way to really see quality that way, as you know, but folks go for it. I suspect one of the guys at my tile distributor is feeding business to his buddy like this, so I don't send clients to look around anymore.


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## RiverBG (Jun 1, 2014)

*Does Anyone Make Any Real Money On Tile Showers?*

Yes. There is all kinds of money in tile showers. I am middle of the road on labor cost in my area. If you have sq foot pricing for the different situations you see frequently the bidding takes very little time. Then have a good T&M price for the oddball jobs. My biggest problem is finding a decent glass guy. Other than that showers are bread and butter for me.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

There are high margins on bathroom renovations. It is in my opinion the most challenging home renovation project. The productivity is low, and the working spaces are cramped. In the above comments there is a pattern of issues where aspects of the job were taken away from the contractor. This will always result in issues.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Showers are where you need to be a better salesman. It's up to you to sell the value of what you do. 

If you can explain the difference between a properly waterproofed shower and a slap-together job of tile directly on CBU with no vapor barrier in a relatively quick and nontechnical manner, you should win the bid almost every time. 

I have learned getting too technical loses the HO. You can see it in their eyes as you cross that line. 

So folks are worried about money. You need to explain how expensive it is to redo a shower if it fails. Explain the likelihood of one failing that's not properly done. Why not up it and give a lifetime warranty on your showers? I'd exclude and silicone or cementitiois grout coverage but if you are waterproofing a shower and flood test, there's no reason that shower shouldn't last less than 20 years. 

You need to find a way to sell the value of one of your showers. You need to stand out from the crowd because of more than just price.

And to answer the question, there is real good margins in showers for me.


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

The ones I do, I make good money on. I start at a hundred a sqft based on pan dimensions and go up. A 3x5 can run from $1500 - as much as they want to spend. If it takes time it takes money. I have learned through the years approximately what I need to charge for given extras like niches, shelves, benches, borders, patterns, different drain configurations, glass, etc. My invoice program has all of the data input already so I can arrive at a close number pretty quick. I usually assess the job as a whole and add or subtract to that total and add my materials and markup into that to give the customer a total price. I do not breakout bids for showers period. They get done my way, with the materials I spec or I don't do them, no negotiating. It's the only way they remain profitable and it keeps the customer from pricing me against every tile shop and handyman in the world. I don't give a damn if someone else is cheaper. If price is your first concern on a shower build - I ain't your guy anyway.


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## walkinplate (Oct 11, 2014)

I joke about getting the infamous "shower" call all the time. I get them about a half dozen times a year. 

With me, the conversation *always* goes like this. 

HO: I would like to re-tile my shower, add a new vanity & sink, new toilet and paint. Leaving the old floor. 

Me: Do you have a budget you're thinking about?

HO: Yea. $1,200. 

If I rolled my eyes any harder, I'd fall over. And then I'd probably have to pay a CalOSHA fall fine. 

The only time I have ever made money on a shower, is during a full remodel of the bathroom or the entire house. But that's just me.


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## charimon (Nov 24, 2008)

I make much better on large floors (Residential tile) I can tear out and install 500-800 sf in a week, with one outstanding helper. or I can set a shower in that same time. All I do is tile and I set for one of the best companies in the world so I have access to good size flooring jobs all the time. 
I am setting here typing right now because I was supposed to be installing an ARC shower this week but the plumber has not changed the tub drain to a 2" when he changed the valve sets. Not that i mind a day off.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

I agree. I make a larger margin on a floor but showers are absolutely worth my time (if you bid them correctly).


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## PrecisionFloors (Jan 24, 2006)

Just the opposite down here in the land of South American labor pools.... Floor work doesn't pay ****. When you have marble guys willing to set for $4/ft..... The best margins are in total bath remodels. Even cheap ones have a decent payoff.


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## HS345 (Jan 20, 2008)

Rhode Island said:


> I just took a bath on the shower I did. Customer supplied all the tile. It took forever, the plumber ruined the floor twice, and the customer took a shower prior to me grouting. He didn't realize grout was needed. He felt the tile though and they were hard......idiots. It took me 3 weeks and I still need to go back 1 time.


No offense, but it sounds like your troubles are a lack of communication on your part. You need to let the customer know in no uncertain terms when the shower will be ready for use. And if the plumber damaged the floor multiple times, was he billed for repairs?


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I have no idea what others charge in my area. I do 2-4 showers a year. I price them to make money and do them with products I know will work. They are almost always a part of an entire bath remodel and I don't break anything out but the material budget for the tile. It eliminates a lot of problems this way.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

I am just going to have to work on my selling strategy. 

I can see I'm also going to have to streamline my estimating process. I think that is a lot of what is frustrating me. I do a lot of bathrooms. It seems like everyone and their brother wants a tile shower until they get an idea on what they cost. Its very common for me to quote a tile shower and then they downgrade to an insert because of cost.

I have a high close rate on most everything I get called for but I'm probably 2 out of 10 on tile showers this year.


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## overanalyze (Dec 28, 2010)

I was the same way Spencer for a while. I finally pre-qualify a bit more now. It took me years to do that. I give them the range of a tile shower cost vs. a Sterling unit. I find out real quick where they want to be budget wise. 

I love when their jaw drops on the tile shower cost...lol! Most just don't know.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

overanalyze said:


> I was the same way Spencer for a while. I finally pre-qualify a bit more now. It took me years to do that. I give them the range of a tile shower cost vs. a Sterling unit. I find out real quick where they want to be budget wise.
> 
> I love when their jaw drops on the tile shower cost...lol! *Most just don't know.*


Exactly.

I've had two deals lately where I was brought on board to handle fairly large bathroom remodels. 

Both were in the $25-30k range. On one they had an acquaintance who was a flooring retailer. HO wanted me to handle everything besides putting tile in the shower. Their acquaintance was going to sell the tile and have his sub install the shower tile. I was basically even supposed to have it ready for them. I said sorry but no thanks. Its hard to explain to them all reasons that scenario just doesn't work well. Ended up completely walking away from that job.

Now I've got one on deck. I'm coming in working under an interior designer. She wants me to do everything besides the cabinets and tile shower. I sold her a little bit on the benefits of having me do everything but she has a quote from her normal tile guy. He is not very ambitious in his pricing, I think he may even be losing money to get her business. She even said she thinks he's done that in the past.

On this one I'm pretty confident I have the rest of the job so I can just lopside the labor on my other stuff to make the shower look cheaper but it still makes me shake my head when I see what some guys work for.


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## EPAYNE (Jul 21, 2011)

A lot of our competition is much cheaper than we are. We still do about a shower a month, and still meet our margins.

E Payne


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

I know two guys who use to do showers full time and quit because people were continuously getting bids for about half. I'm currently bidding an upper end shower that was put in by a half price "tile" person so hopefully it'll work out. Going to charge my going rate regardless. I only hope that all these half price showers will get people to regain trust and need in the likes of us again.


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## illbuildit.dd (Jan 7, 2015)

Spencer said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I've had two deals lately where I was brought on board to handle fairly large bathroom remodels.
> 
> ...


Designers come up with the craziest stuff. But they're usually good to work for. 
"Ok so like I want this cabinet to step up then down then in then out then twist then glow the back up and AAAAAAA!"


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

Those big tile guys are really hard to beat. Im done price matching them, just not worth it. Was when i first started working for my self. Then one time I hired them and that was the last time.


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## fast fred (Sep 26, 2008)

I kill it on shower/tub surrounds bathrooms etc. Some of the highest profit margins are in bathrooms for me. Usually 18% profit on the low end.

Still only close maybe 70% of the bids I put out there for bathrooms, did 19 bathrooms last year with all tiled tub or shower surrounds, started three baths on mon and tue this week all in different houses. 

It's typical low ballers etc......... competition, who cares, I try to tell customers I do a larger volume of baths and they should feel comfortable with my process and ability. It works. My sq ft prices are not low and they are only going up, was talking with some guys from the next county over at the tile store and comparing prices, they made me feel pretty low cause they were getting at least $3.00 sq ft more than me. due to lack of tradesmen and demand for higher quality. 

stick to your prices and your quality you'll only win in the end


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## Stevarino (Sep 28, 2013)

I do probably 20-25 showers a year, maybe more. I usually make a good profit on them. When I started out on my own several years ago I priced too competitively. It helped build a client base and get my name out there. Since then I have completely changed my model. I have often been the go to guy for fixing the previous contractors screwed up shower. I'm not the cheapest tile guy, but when I walk away you will have a shower that will last 15-20 years. 

Any schmuck can set tile and slap up a shower. It takes a pro to do it right the first time. 

I have also had to separate my tile into different price points. Such as quick Reno jobs for landlords and such. Not as glamorous of jobs but surprisingly the margins are often better.


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## MarcoPollo (Dec 6, 2014)

I am sort of in the same boat where I have started to wonder whether or not doing bathroom renovations is even worth it for me.

As my year end passes at the end of this month, I have started reviewing jobs of the last year. I am a carpenter by trade who does do bathrooms and the like as well and granted not being a tile setter by trade I am starting to think they are becoming a black hole labour wise. The numbers seem to tell me the same. 18% profit? I really hope that is gross as that isn't anywhere near what I get on a bathroom remodel? 

Deck or Kitchen or custom woodworking project? Absolutely.

Spencer my suggestion to you (if you care about my opinion at all lol) as based on what I have seen through your posts is we are in roughly the same position being full remodelers is let the numbers do the talking.

I have been on my own going on 3 years and have dabbled in everything because a job is a job. I honestly believe, as I'm sure you do that my skill set can figure out how to do something well no matter the project. I have found my "ego" get in the way as I hate to tell myself I can't make money doing a certain project because I feel that loses me a customer or makes me less of a tradesman and I'm absolutely fascinated as I learn more just how much is involved scientifically in regards to tile setting. 

The problem? If I can make the 18% to 20% doing decks and custom woodworking as this is my background, why grind it out countless hours making sure you're doing right by the clients to make 10% or embarrassingly enough less or nothing because you didnt know ahead of time what was involved or could be involved due to lack of experience and bid the project wrong? This has happened to me on 3 bathrooms this year and yet I still think I will do well at the end because I have my non bathroom remodels picking up the slack.

Basically the numbers are telling me something. It seems your question stems from them telling you the same. My ego is making it hard for me to listen, hopefully you can listen to yours.


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## cedarboarder (Mar 30, 2015)

Stevarino said:


> I do probably 20-25 showers a year, maybe more. I usually make a good profit on them. When I started out on my own several years ago I priced too competitively. It helped build a client base and get my name out there. Since then I have completely changed my model. I have often been the go to guy for fixing the previous contractors screwed up shower. I'm not the cheapest tile guy, but when I walk away you will have a shower that will last 15-20 years.
> 
> Any schmuck can set tile and slap up a shower. It takes a pro to do it right the first time.
> 
> I have also had to separate my tile into different price points. Such as quick Reno jobs for landlords and such. Not as glamorous of jobs but surprisingly the margins are often better.


What products have found to be the best for curbs and lining ? 
Just got a lead for 3 stalls in commercial building. Probably no curb but I wonder if schluter is the best.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

cedarboarder said:


> What products have found to be the best for curbs and lining ?
> Just got a lead for 3 stalls in commercial building. Probably no curb but I wonder if schluter is the best.


I don't think anyone can say there is a _best_. Maybe what's best in certain situation but it's really hard to define. That's because having a local supplier or cost can determine what's _best_. And maybe I can't get that product locally or it's much more expensive for me.

I try to not lock myself into just one product. Each new project has its own set of challenges which might make "x" better than "y". The next job, "y" might be better. 

Whether you use a foam board, liquid membrane or fabric, they are all pretty capable. Cost and availability are usually what makes one more profitable than an other. Product familiarity helps too. 

I do use the Kerdi-Curb pretty often. Hard to beat how easily and quickly it installs for $30.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

MarcoPollo said:


> I am sort of in the same boat where I have started to wonder whether or not doing bathroom renovations is even worth it for me.
> 
> As my year end passes at the end of this month, I have started reviewing jobs of the last year. I am a carpenter by trade who does do bathrooms and the like as well and granted not being a tile setter by trade I am starting to think they are becoming a black hole labour wise. The numbers seem to tell me the same. 18% profit? I really hope that is gross as that isn't anywhere near what I get on a bathroom remodel?
> 
> ...


Sounds similar to the thoughts I have.

An example for me of numbers talking would be flooring. I don't mind doing flooring at all but I don't do hardly any. Reason being it is to competitive and not worth my time. Really, the only time I do flooring is if its part of a bathroom and it isn't worth bringing a sub in.

Around here, almost all the flooring that goes in is either a DIY job were it is purchased from lowes or menards. Otherwise is goes in through a local small business retailer. There are several locally.

These retailers sell the product and then have guys who will install. I think of several retailers, every one of the the installers in the area are actually subcontractors even though they are really employees.

All these guys do is flooring. Their only overhead is tools for flooring. On top of that from what I can tell they don't have very high standards on what they want to make. A good day for most of these flooring guys would be making $300/day. A good day for me is $500/day. I'm not working for $300/day just so I can do flooring.

That leads me to the point that the same retailers are selling tile for showers and having their 1099 subs do the install. Again, they are happy working for much less.

There have to be unique circumstances for me to be able to sell the job with me doing the shower and get what I want. Most of the time the dollars say no on tile showers mainly due to the fact that at surface value the competition does a comparable job and is less in price. The key is at surface value. Sometimes I can sell myself, most of the time I'm better off to not bother trying and like you, stick to the jobs with better margins.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

*profit in showers*

OK. Here's the deal. I do very well with them . my company does tile showers on an ongoing basis. how many? Last glass door order was for 7 different jobs. I won't touch one for under 2500 plus all material. Have been doing it for nearly 20 years. I ll tell anyone our approach and how we established our wet area business. Showers are the least amount of tile for the most money.


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## Calidecks (Nov 19, 2011)

Nope, the real money is in decks.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Here's what's missed in construction : the money is in any project or trade you do well and can turn efficiently.
Decks are a perfect example . A skilled carpenter can do well, but there are always knuckleheads who low ball, just like with showers. Showers aren't a gold mine, but no one should take on the service and liability without a profit. Realistically tile floors often pay the best if you look at time and money .


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Californiadecks said:


> Nope, the real money is in decks.


And here I thought it was in property preservation.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

Just last week I made a decision that is in line with this topic. I am done biding on kitchens and baths. I will do them as time and material jobs. If someone wan't me to do their kitchen or bathroom because it's me I am happy to do it. If they are shopping for price, I am not interested when it comes to those two types of projects. I have felt like a free man since I made that decision.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Smart move . takes every trade to do a bath it takes to build a house except a roofer and a mason. They can be difficult to administrate and execute. We do about 1.3 million a year,mostly baths. If I weren't set up and organized to do them it'd be a mess. And I ve had a few that didn't go well at all. If there is any problem with customer making decisions just brace yourself is all I can say.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

angus242 said:


> And here I thought it was in property preservation.


Don't see those guys around here since they got their own site.


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## builditguy (Nov 10, 2013)

Bathroom remodels have always been a money making problem for us. Our problem, I believe, is that we can only do so much in the room at one one. Almost has to be done in stages. This also draws the project out. 

I started telling people, right from the beginning, we will be doing another project while we work on your bathroom. I layout the timeline and the expected scheduling. As soon as I do this, they are ok with it. After about the 3rd day, they understand.

As for showers, I started subbing them out about 20 years ago. I just couldn't make the money I wanted to make. We occasionally do one, but only if it is part of the larger picture and only if I need something to fill in.

I definitely think the money is there, I just have a hard time finding it. At least as much of it as I want.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

I think they only work for us because we do 6-8 at a time and do most of it in-house except electrical and plumbing... And we ve used the same ones so long they know how we want it set up. I tell homeowners either 6-8 weeks or 8-12 and expect downtime and dry times.


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## angus242 (Oct 20, 2007)

Well there's been a slight change in topic. The title asks about tiling a shower to make money. Naturally, you can easily change that to an entire bathroom.

Yes, I can make money tiling a shower. It is much harder to make good money with an entire bath remodel. Like the new guy said, you might need every interior trade. And the problem compounds for certain trades when that bath is on the smaller side. Drywall, electrical and paint don't have much work to perform and therefore, isn't always worth their time. How can the painter make money if they have to drive 40 mins to work for 2 hours? 

Some trades might increase their bids to make it worthwhile. That eats into profits when you're trying to be competitive. So unless you can keep most of the work in-house, a bathroom can be a lower profit job. 

I started pushing certain items off to the HO directly. Yes, I lose the markup but if it contracts you the job, you are working and the subs don't have to lower their prices to ridiculous margins to be working either.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Yes...didn't mean to drive the train off the tracks. I do OK on either but am usually doing the shower as part of the entire package. I will say this, many guys can make money on the same trade some else loses....because they are efficient and execute well. I don't do well on soffit work usually. Any of us can make money where we turn the job smoothly. Sometimes we get off track and don't profit and collect slow. An example is running short of bullnose on a shower and it has to be ordered.


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

AGullion said:


> Smart move . takes every trade to do a bath it takes to build a house except a roofer and a mason. They can be difficult to administrate and execute. We do about 1.3 million a year,mostly baths. If I weren't set up and organized to do them it'd be a mess. And I ve had a few that didn't go well at all. If there is any problem with customer making decisions just brace yourself is all I can say.


I have never had one that didn't go smooth, and I don't find them to be unpleasant jobs to run. I tend to enjoy jobs with my subs on them. I just don't enjoy bidding on them. That's how I arrived at my decision. I will gladly build them, just not bid. If someone wants a ballpark for a bathroom I will just tell them I would think it would be in the 5k- 50k range unless the get carried away.


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## Jaws (Dec 20, 2010)

FrankSmith said:


> I have never had one that didn't go smooth, and I don't find them to be unpleasant jobs to run. I tend to enjoy jobs with my subs on them. I just don't enjoy bidding on them. That's how I arrived at my decision. I will gladly build them, just not bid. If someone wants a ballpark for a bathroom I will just tell them I would think it would be in the 5k- 50k range unless the get carried away.


A 5k bath remodel? :whistling

Different strokes, but I am the opposite. I dont do cost plus for bathrooms and kitchens. My mark up is a lot higher on a smaller job like that than it would be for a whole house or a major addition, because of the trips involved and the total value of the job. I like fixed bids for them. 

When we do a cost plus bathroom or kitchen for an existing client who we have a cost plus relationship with, i charge for my time to manage the job like on an addition or major renovation. In my experience, most people dont want to see a PM line item for a bathroom :no:

I do get that it is a PITA to throw bids out all the time for work you may or may not do


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## rrk (Apr 22, 2012)

AGullion said:


> I tell homeowners either 6-8 weeks or 8-12 and expect downtime and dry times.



Thats crazy


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## FrankSmith (Feb 21, 2013)

Jaws said:


> A 5k bath remodel? :whistling
> 
> Different strokes, but I am the opposite. I dont do cost plus for bathrooms and kitchens. My mark up is a lot higher on a smaller job like that than it would be for a whole house or a major addition, because of the trips involved and the total value of the job. I like fixed bids for them.
> 
> ...


5k would be the improving your existing space range. My experience has been that many people are looking for exactly that. 

When I do anything for time and material my objective is not to make less. If I would have bid it at 25k it should come in at 25k as a time and material job. The number get ran the same way. One is on the front end while the other is at completion. It's not meant to be discounted work. The only way the number is different is if I miss bid it.


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## VinylHanger (Jul 14, 2011)

I have for some reason started doing baths. No tile yet. I am quickly learni ng that it is a on again off again type gig. Tomorrow I have both the electrician and a plumber in a 5 by 8 space. One in the morning, one in the afternoon.

I do them time and materials also. I also have two seperate ones going at th e same time and tomorrow I wil start jumping between them.

What saves me is I do all the other stuff. Framing, paint, drywall etc. So I can keep myself busy.

Still itbis a balancing act between starts and stops. I am just now trying to get the hang of it as I am used to starting at 8 and finishing on the same job around 5 or 6.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

angus242 said:


> Well there's been a slight change in topic. The title asks about tiling a shower to make money. Naturally, you can easily change that to an entire bathroom.
> 
> *Yes, I can make money tiling a shower. It is much harder to make good money with an entire bath remodel.* Like the new guy said, you might need every interior trade. And the problem compounds for certain trades when that bath is on the smaller side. Drywall, electrical and paint don't have much work to perform and therefore, isn't always worth their time. How can the painter make money if they have to drive 40 mins to work for 2 hours?
> 
> ...


The bold above is a key point.

As I stated in a previous post, I had a bathroom come my way this winter. Referral through the lumber yard I work with. The yard owner had already sold the customer high end cabinets.

He wanted me to install the cabinets and do the prep for the tile shower...basically getting it completely ready for tile, and then an acquaintance of the HO was going to do the shower install. I was like..."uh...no thanks." My thought process was, why on earth would I do all the grunt work on this just so the HO's buddy who owns a retail flooring store can come in and make big margins on the material and labor, take all the glory for the project, and most assuredly blame me when something isn't just so with how he wants it. Not a frickin chance.

You make an excellent point. Tile showers are a specialized trade. Once you own the specialized tools to complete them, and develop the skills and systems to execute the job fast, you should be able to be very competitive.

Entire bathrooms on the other hand, encompass a very wide range of trades. Each trade/phase of the project requires specialized tools and skills to complete the job efficiently and effectively. 

So in entire bathroom jobs, overhead goes up, and in a sense specialization decreases because you are spreading your skills/experience over a broader range.

This thought process makes it more understandable why those of us who are more of an all encompassing remodeler find it difficult to compete with the more specialized shower guys. And in a larger context, why so many "builders" find it impossible to compete in bathrooms when they are used to working in a much larger context.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

Spencer said:


> The bold above is a key point.
> 
> As I stated in a previous post, I had a bathroom come my way this winter. Referral through the lumber yard I work with. The yard owner had already sold the customer high end cabinets.
> 
> ...


After you do a bunch of work over many years you won't care so much about the glory of being the guy that puts the bow on the finished product.

If you could make decent money hanging the cabs and doing the prep I would have done it. Plus it keeps the guy at the yard happy which leads to more referrals in the future.

My suppliers have been a good source of referrals over the years and if I blew off the work they sent me they would stop referring it to me.


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## Spencer (Jul 6, 2005)

Inner10 said:


> After you do a bunch of work over many years you won't care so much about the glory of being the guy that puts the bow on the finished product.
> 
> If you could make decent money hanging the cabs and doing the prep I would have done it. Plus it keeps the guy at the yard happy which leads to more referrals in the future.
> 
> My suppliers have been a good source of referrals over the years and if I blew off the work they sent me they would stop referring it to me.


In this case I hated to do it but I had to make a judgement call to either give them the option of having me do the whole job or walk away.

The writing was on the wall and my gut was saying walk.

The yard owner was trying to act like a GC on the project, he is a great guy but unfortunately has no clue as to the ins and outs of a good tile shower job.

I didn't know what system to even use to prep the shower, much less what the tile was to give a good layout. To many unknowns that were going to turn it into a disaster. 

I smoothed it over the with him and explained why I couldn't do it. He seemed to understand.

I have walked into a couple of those situations in the last year that left me with regret wondering why I took the jobs. Didn't want to make the same mistake again.

To add to the situation I felt the the HO's were being shafted. There was no quotes being given up front, four different trades being brought into a bathroom that wasn't very big. I could see that each was going to get their money and the HO was going to be left with an obscene bill and a bad taste for those involved. 

I like having control over my projects and I most definitely didn't on this one so I walked. Still have no regrets.


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## Tinstaafl (Jan 6, 2008)

Spencer said:


> I didn't know what system to even use to prep the shower, much less what the tile was to give a good layout.


Any tile guy willing to slap the stuff on to someone else's prep work is going to give no better than a taillight warrantee if he has any sense at all. Nor could you do any better, not knowing how he's going to treat your prep work.

Wise move to walk. :thumbsup:


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> After you do a bunch of work over many years you won't care so much about the glory of being the guy that puts the bow on the finished product.
> 
> If you could make decent money hanging the cabs and doing the prep I would have done it. Plus it keeps the guy at the yard happy which leads to more referrals in the future.
> 
> My suppliers have been a good source of referrals over the years and if I blew off the work they sent me they would stop referring it to me.


Like Tins said, how would you warranty the prep work? Anything could be said about your prep. This would not be a wise business model.


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## AGullion (Apr 19, 2015)

Good rule of thumb: if it doesn't feel right, don't do it . Tile showers take experience to do well and profitably. Waterproof is like pregnant... Either you are or you aren't . I'm not saying guys that are doing well are special, just have had a lot of practice.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> Like Tins said, how would you warranty the prep work? Anything could be said about your prep. This would not be a wise business model.


You don't champ.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> You don't champ.


More excellent tile advice from the low voltage contractor. Gotta love it. :laughing:


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> More excellent tile advice from the low voltage contractor. Gotta love it. :laughing:


It's not tile advice some other guy was tiling it.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> It's not tile advice some other guy was tiling it.


No, it's all tiling. You are confusing tiling with setting the tile. Stop while your behind.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> No, it's all tiling. You are confusing tiling with setting the tile. Stop while your behind.


Tiling isn't setting tiles? I wish I was as brilliant as you.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Tiling isn't setting tiles? I wish I was as brilliant as you.


I wish you were champ, then you could read and comprehend.

Tile setting isn't "tiling" as you asserted. It encompasses everything from prep to finish.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> I wish you were champ, then you could read and comprehend.
> 
> Tile setting isn't "tiling" as you asserted. It encompasses everything from prep to finish.


Unless you are just hired to do the prep.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Unless you are just hired to do the prep.


And back to the beginning of a bad idea. Full circle! Still a bad idea and not great advice as a good model.


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## Inner10 (Mar 12, 2009)

TNTSERVICES said:


> And back to the beginning of a bad idea. Full circle! Still a bad idea and not great advice as a good model.


Yeah I'm just trying to lead him down the garden path.


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## TNTRenovate (Aug 19, 2010)

Inner10 said:


> Yeah I'm just trying to lead him down the garden path.


One that you have a lot of experience in. :laughing:


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