# customer won't pay



## Tom R (Jun 1, 2004)

Good, Grump, - - plus now you'll be past the 'learning curve', - - in case anybody else trys to pull any stunts.


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## kenvest (Sep 27, 2005)

take em to small claims too.....

good luck!


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## Mike Finley (Apr 28, 2004)

kenvest said:


> getting the buyers mortgage in a place of first position would be conditioned on the fact that the lein would be paid at closing. the closing attorney would be responsible for paying the lein before the homeowner recieves any funds from the sale. the buyers mortgage would actually state something to that affect.
> 
> if there aren't enough funds in the deal to pay all the obligations of the previous owner, then there would be no way for the buyers mortgage to take a first position and therefore would be no deal.


Thanks, for that. I spoke with a Realtor friend today and he also helped clear it up for me. Saying they won't be able to sell their house is a generalization on my part I guess, because as you said they can sell it, but in actuality no buyer is going to purchase it if the title company won't issue a clear title, so the seller is forced to either pay off the lien prior to closing or have it payed off at the closing. Either way the lien holder gets his money!!!:thumbup:


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

My plumber friend had to file a lien on one of his customers. Bottom line was it came down to the guy being at the closing office and not being able to close. The homeowner called him from the closing office and told him to come down and get his check. When my friend got there the homeowner asked how much was the total bill. My friend added 50% and the guy flipped out. So my friend said "Well no sense in me or YOU hanging around here. I'm not getting my check and now your not selling your house".:biggrin: :biggrin: Suddenly the homeowner changed his mind and the check came from the company doing the closing not the homeowner so he couldn't try anything stupid like putting a stop payment on the check.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

All this talk about liens and I think I remember Grumpy mentioning a "notice of intent to lien" letter he had.. . Grumpy, any chance of you sharing that letter here? Or maybe in the "give a form, take a form" thread.


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## King of Crown (Oct 12, 2005)

*yeah*



cdac said:


> Forgive my ignorance, as I have never had to file a lein YET, But how would a homes appreciation and screwing up their final transaction be an "investment" ???


yeah, I dont know what i was thinking. i thought about it after i sent the message, and hoped no one would see it


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## SMKFULLER (Oct 25, 2005)

Thanks For All Yalls Input, Anyone Ever File Charges At The Police Station For Services Theft? It Was Suggested By Another Business That I Do That, It Would Be A Felony Charge Against Them. Seems Kinda Harsh But They Should Not Be Able To Get Away With Not Paying. I Don't Think It Would Do Any Good For Us To File A Lien On Their Home Due To The Fact That This Is Their Retirement Home, Probably Not Going Anywhere Till They Kick Over. We Have An Appointment With An Attorney Next Week To Seek Advice.


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## nywoodwizard (Sep 10, 2005)

*lien is good*

lien your knuckles up against his teeth,real hard!:cheesygri


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## noreast05 (Sep 4, 2005)

SMKFULLER said:


> Thanks For All Yalls Input, Anyone Ever File Charges At The Police Station For Services Theft? It Was Suggested By Another Business That I Do That, It Would Be A Felony Charge Against Them. Seems Kinda Harsh But They Should Not Be Able To Get Away With Not Paying. I Don't Think It Would Do Any Good For Us To File A Lien On Their Home Due To The Fact That This Is Their Retirement Home, Probably Not Going Anywhere Till They Kick Over. We Have An Appointment With An Attorney Next Week To Seek Advice.


Services theft never heard of it....... think I like it. Because they are stealing from you just in a different way. It's not harsh if they stole from you. Liens are more a piece of mind for you ...... if you know you will never be paid at least you can sleep a bit better knowing they can't sell or pass away without being reminded of you. I went the attorney route once..... nothing come about.... spent more than if I just chaulked it up for a loss and filed a lien. Live and learn.

Don't delay on a lien, found out the hard way, you only have x amount of time. 

Keep us posted on your out come with the attorney and the rest of your pursuit in this unfortunate matter.


Best of luck


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## TimNJ (Sep 7, 2005)

SMKFULLER said:


> Thanks For All Yalls Input, Anyone Ever File Charges At The Police Station For Services Theft? It Was Suggested By Another Business That I Do That, It Would Be A Felony Charge Against Them. Seems Kinda Harsh But They Should Not Be Able To Get Away With Not Paying. I Don't Think It Would Do Any Good For Us To File A Lien On Their Home Due To The Fact That This Is Their Retirement Home, Probably Not Going Anywhere Till They Kick Over. We Have An Appointment With An Attorney Next Week To Seek Advice.


 I never heard that but I have heard of going to the police and filing charges if someone gives you a bad check.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

jproffer said:


> All this talk about liens and I think I remember Grumpy mentioning a "notice of intent to lien" letter he had.. . Grumpy, any chance of you sharing that letter here? Or maybe in the "give a form, take a form" thread.


I'm at the casa now but when I get to the office I will post that for you in the give take form thread. 

I actually signed on to give you guys the good news. We gave the guy one last warning. My salesman called him and said "I'm in my car and either driving to the county court house to file that lien or I am driving to your house to pick it up. This is your last chance. What will it be?"

My salesman JUST called me to tell me he has the check in his hand. Now let's see if it bounces.  (Yes writing a bad check is a criminal offense. It is considered fraud and punishable by jail time.) A lawyer once told me it is better to be given a bad check than it is to be given no check at all. I have heard of theft of services but I don't know anything about it. I do know when I was a novice project manager I spoke with the police about someone not paying us thinking foolishly that the cops would want to help a citizen in need, and they said it's a civil matter to call a lawyer.

Something else, when I was inquiring about the lien process, I foolishly contacted almost every department at the county courthouse by e-mail (SPam!)  and half the replies said "Consider hiring a lawyer". Then when I found the correct department, they told me it's a simple fill in the blank kind of form and no lawyer is necessary. 

"No Lawyer is Necessary". Think about that for a minute. No lawyer should ever be _necessary_. It should never be a requirement that you have a lawyer. It kinda irks me that you damned near have to hire a lawyer to do anything legal for you because the law was purposely written by lawyers to be complicated to keep them in business decyphering their own complication.

Anyways I'm paid. I'm happy.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

Grumpy, I think in IL you can "lien" a bad check with the bank of service. From what I understand, it just means when/if there is money in the account, you will get yours, or whatever portion there-of, until you're paid in full.

That'd tick a guy of wouldn't it, keep putting money in an account and never have any balance until you're paid.:cheesygri Imagine all the other bad checks they'd write, but hey, not my problem, all I want is my money.:thumbsup:


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

My sister in law is a shift manager of a Chase (formerly bank one). I will have to ask her about that.


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## slickshift (Jun 14, 2005)

Glad you got your check Grumpy



SMKFULLER said:


> ...Anyone Ever File Charges At The Police Station For Services Theft? ...


Yes
A restaurant was using my dumpster
It was rather obvious, as restaurant trash is pretty particular to restaurants
I told the Mgr to stop it, and he didn't so I filed "Theft Of Services" charges with the local police
It actually was pretty funny, the cops were pulling giant lettuce boxes and giant spaghetti sauce cans out of my dumpster and the owner of the restaurant was standing there denying that it was his trash
The cops were having none of that, saying it sure as **** ain't remodeling debris

The cops asked if I would drop the charges in an exchange for a promise not to do it again
They told him it was far too obvious that it was his trash and if it happens again they would arrest him
After that-no problem


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## pitterpat (Sep 25, 2005)

cdac said:


> Forgive my ignorance, as I have never had to file a lein YET, But how would a homes appreciation and screwing up their final transaction be an "investment" ???



What happens is that when the house is sold you get interest on what you are owed.


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## jproffer (Feb 19, 2005)

If you lien a property, and they sell, and you have added interest to the amount owed without going through legal channels, you're probably going to be more than a little disappointed. Check the law in your state before mentioning interest.

On a side note, I'm not all that interested in collecting interest (not enough to delay the case, anyway) I just want my money.


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## plazaman (Apr 17, 2005)

dont forget liens expire every year!


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## Teetorbilt (Feb 12, 2004)

I have sent 2 letters of intent, both were written by myself and worked admirably (I was paid).

I also know of one guy who went through the motions for over 10 yrs. before getting paid.

You never know how the customer is going to deal with it.


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## red_cedar (Mar 30, 2005)

I have been reading the 'Compiled Statutes' of Illinois. 
After the lien is filed, one can 'foreclose' on the lien, aka file suit.
Loser pays all fees for both sides.
My guess is other states have similar laws. I would suggest anyone going thru the process, read the laws, not just listen to forum talk.


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## KRP (Oct 30, 2005)

not just customers how about subing for a contractor 
talk about fighting for your money sometimes 
not all but you have to watch who your doing work for .


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

Contractors are notorious for not paying. It is a case of a few rotten apples giveing the whole basket a bad name. 

I've had every bad experience possible from working for contractors... Including hiring a lawyer to lien a persons house. Boy o Boy did I feel shady for doing that, because this home owner ended up paying for his roof twice, not to mention losing the down payment he put on a $45,000 tuckpointing job. The contractor had a drug problem and liked to smoke his money. On the brighter side we did refer him to a trusted mason who, at the time, did all our masonry work; and the home owner hired us to do his windows.


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