# Residential design issues



## Designbuilt (Feb 7, 2010)

Willie T said:


> Frankly, I'm sitting shaking my head and smiling. We're speaking to you of real world, time & money issues. And you are giving us the typical responses we've come to expect. That's kind of sad.
> 
> No, your grammatical errors don't amount to much here. But out there in the real world... in the field with a crew of five or six burning up our payroll as they are standing around waiting for a phone-tag reply........ it matters to the tune of hundreds of dollars per incident.
> 
> ...


 
Well... I've never made any major mistakes on plans that delayed a project in over 12 years.. In Chicago, I personally designed several large projects including 2 soccer stadiums, A mixed use 58 residential & 3 commercial unit building, as well as countless of other projects and have never made any serious errors.

The small errors that I do make are caught long before the contractor gets to see them. 

But the post that I made just prior to this one is actually of more benefit to the opening poster than all of this arguing.

But if you think that it's efficient to search the internet to find out what IWO means, that's pretty pathetic. 

No wonder you have so many guys sitting around burning up a payroll, LMAO! (I could just picture it too :laughing have them sweep the damn floors or fill up the dumpsters at least (Yes I was a laborer for a carpenter and tin-knocker, so I know how jobs work) 

I worked for Kipley and McHugh, I did this to pay for my own school right after high school. 

I assure you that one small error on a plan won't stop an entire job if so, something is wrong!! But being that you stopped everything to search online for IWO and took the time to type each and everyone out, kind of shows how you do things...

Furthermore, IWO isn't a spelling error, I simply hit one key on my keyboard before another, that's called a typo it wasn't mispelt.

But being that it seems I'm not welcome here, I will not post anymore, I don't have the time nor the inclination to explain or justify anything that I do to any of you. I came here to have a civilized conversation not argue and banter. Not worth it.


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

What's that saying--Engineers know nothing about everything, and Architects know everything about nothing :laughing: or is the other way around? :laughing:


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

rustyjames said:


> What's that saying--Engineers know nothing about everything, and Architects know everything about nothing :laughing: or is the other way around? :laughing:


Don't remember which way it goes but it's right either way. :thumbsup::clap:


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

Designbuilt, I for one welcome your input, your posts are cogent and well received. The others have points that (I think) need to be heard as well even if some are a bit terse and acid tongued. 

I got into doing designing and drafting after being a GC on small residential jobs here in So. California in part because some of the stuff I got from designers and an architect or two just didn't cut the mustard as it were. 

I think that most of the guys looking at these threads are getting some really good information from you and the others, they (those not responding) are just not willing to get in the middle of what might be perceived as a pissing match. So for what it is worth please keep posting as I think that I can gain invaluable information from you and others on what to include and not include in my drawings.

Andy.


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

Rory Read said:


> In no particular order:
> 
> 
> Detail drawings for details that don't actually occur on the main plan. I think drafters sometimes throw all of their boiler plate drawings on the prints, even though the particular case does not show up. It adds clutter and can be confusing.
> ...


10. Doors that open into soffits, wall corners, windows, re-lites, other doors yet call for wall stops. Ever try putting a wall stop on a re-lite?:laughing:


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

Designbuilt said:


> But being that it seems I'm not welcome here, I will not post anymore, I don't have the time nor the inclination to explain or justify anything that I do to any of you. I came here to have a civilized conversation not argue and banter. Not worth it.


Wow, you guys drove him off fast. :blink:


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## Designbuilt (Feb 7, 2010)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> Designbuilt, I for one welcome your input, your posts are cogent and well received. The others have points that (I think) need to be heard as well even if some are a bit terse and acid tongued.
> 
> I got into doing designing and drafting after being a GC on small residential jobs here in So. California in part because some of the stuff I got from designers and an architect or two just didn't cut the mustard as it were.
> 
> ...


 

Well... I do understand that perhaps, some of the others may have issues with architects that they have dealt with as I have with contractors that I have dealt with. 

But I will in no way form an opinion based on bad experiences. Like having drawings undermined and the contractors does whatever he wants that happends to, but I treat every person differently and never judge anyone on past experiences, wether it be based on race, belief or profession.

But I would like to add that regardless of who the GC deals with there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE, for them to not be prepared BEFORE THE START OF THE WORK DAY!!! 

I for one have my cell phone number on every plan that I work on. I will answer 7 days a week and can answer anything off the top of my head without having to look at the drawings. 

But let's suppose that it was an architect who didn't have such a good memory, or what have you. The Job superintendant, overseer, boss, etc. Whatever you want to call him, should be there at 6am if everyone else starts at 8am, and already know EXACTLY what's going down! 

How could they not? How is the job run then? Just read the drawings as you go? When the job is bid, they have been looked at several times. 

When they chose someone to run the job, the company owners go over the drawings and scope of work with the boss... How could it be then that there would be 5-6 guys jagging eachother off waiting for a phone call?


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## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

Home Designs said:


> I am a residential designer based in PA and in an effort to always provide my clients, either contractor or home owner, with better service, I would like some feedback on what the #1 gripe is about home designs. Whether it is communication issues or just things that should be portrayed better on the blueprints themselves.
> 
> I am open to any comments or suggestions.
> 
> ...


Please take time to read your original post. You asked what was wrong, the #1 gripe. And you got it. You can learn from all of this or you can get upset.

Bitter or better is a choice we all get to make.

If you take our comments to heart, work on improving these issues in your company where applicable then we all going to love you.:thumbup:

Or you can ignore it. Choice is yours.

I learn from everyone who posts. Some what to do and some what not to do!:wacko:

"How could they not? How is the job run then? Just read the drawings as you go?" Yes I have been pushed for time and made this mistake. You are right we need to be prepared before the 2nd guy shows up because we should be the first.


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## Designbuilt (Feb 7, 2010)

*We got off to a bad start*

I'm going to take that back.. I won't stop posting.. Because I want to prove that I have thick skin... Well maybe, because I'm the new guy and you guys want to bust my balls, or I'm speaking on behalf of all design professionals. Whatever the case may be.. I've been on a lot of job-sites and have been the new guy and as a laborer, I got picked on. I am by no means a softy born with a silver spoon in my mouth who will get all pissy and take my ball home and quit when I get picked on. 

That's one thing that I learned working construction, sure they used to chew my ass out, and we'd get in pissing matches, I'd lose my temper from pushing wheel barrels full of mud all day in 110 degree weather, but at the end of the day it was over, no grudges and the next day was a fresh start... Hope we can be civil from now on.:thumbsup:


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## custrel (Jun 30, 2009)

Designbuilt said:


> How could it be then that there would be 5-6 guys jagging each other off waiting for a phone call?


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Good post. Thank you for it.

When I first became a general foreman for US Home in the late 60’s, one of the engineers in the office asked to work in the field as a Superintendent. He was about 50 years old, and had never been in the field. The same complaints we’re discussing here bothered him, so he wanted to finally get some field experience under his belt to see what all the stink was about.

I worked directly for him, and acted primarily as a buffer between him and the various crew foremen. He had to learn a lot, and he taught me a lot. I think I was about 25 at the time.

It was a tough six months or so, but we both emerged on the other side of that rather bizarre partnership (experiment?) with a greater understanding and appreciation of the differences in our respective positions and goals.

I didn’t always convince him that there was a ‘better’ way. And I often found myself at odds with the crews I supervised as a result of my failure at effective persuasion. He was the boss, and his word was final, not mine.

But it was a learning experience for us both, and I think we both profited in our future careers because of it.

Beginning way back then I started to understand that being right doesn’t matter much if you aren’t also willing to be wrong.

That’s a statement that probably won’t make much sense to a lot of people here. But some readers will know exactly what I mean.

I’ll try to continue in this thread remembering that axiom.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

Well glad to see your back. You said it construction some take some rather thick skin. When you started this thread you wanted input what we, as contractors, could give you.
You should have figured out we mostly have a less than stellar opinion of Architects/Engineers/Draftsman/Designers etc. We explained our gripes to you. Design/Drafting being your trade you don't like your nose being rubbed in it when it was nothing you actually did. No more than we as contractors like our noses being rubbed in some hacks work. But it was you that asked.:whistling Now if you are a straight up no BS guy, with some design talent, who answers his phone and can actually have some logical informative problem solving input THANK YOU!! You would be a refreshing change. 
However, as you can figure out you seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Cheers Griz:thumbsup:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Designbuilt - Personaly, I think your attitude and intentions are good. Don't be turned away by the gripers.

Here I feel is the core problem that can occur. I am starting a major reno March first. Saturday the designer finally delivered drawings that quite frankly are a joke. No way I can go for permit with them.

So now she has to produce decent drawings, with cross sections, by the end of the week. If she is even capable of it. Then I'll have to beg at the building dep't. to fast track the permit.

Demolition team is booked for March 1. They will complete in one week, then my crew starts at a rate of $1400/day. I have made it clear to the HO that if I am waiting due to no drawings, the clock is still running. This is a T&M project.

The HO hired the designer. So my hands are tied. As an experienced contractor, I never would have hired her in the first place. Her priorities are all wrong.

The core problem here, is the designer does not have the clients best interest first and foremost in her mind. Too concerned with flashy finishes.

To be fair, I know contractors that are only interested in $$$$ not the clients best interests. So the problem really is the people, not the occupation.

I think there are good and bad in both professions. 

Just another example of the contractor having to do the designers job, again. :whistling


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## ScipioAfricanus (Sep 13, 2008)

> Originally posted by Griz: When you started this thread...


I noticed in a few other posts by others as well that it seemed that people had the erroneous impressions that DesignBuilt started this thread. It actually was started by Larry (HomeDesigns). 

A really very excellent designer and over-all nice guy that I have had the pleasure to work with a little.

Just clearing things up a bit.

Andy.


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## griz (Nov 26, 2009)

ScipioAfricanus said:


> I noticed in a few other posts by others as well that it seemed that people had the erroneous impressions that DesignBuilt started this thread. It actually was started by Larry (HomeDesigns).
> 
> A really very excellent designer and over-all nice guy that I have had the pleasure to work with a little.
> 
> ...


Sorry, my bad. Just trying to set things on an even keel:clap: Cheers Griz:thumbsup:


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## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

Awe man I made that mistake. Sorry
Has Larry been back? I did a quick scan and did not any replies from him.


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## Heritage (Mar 20, 2007)

As a contractor, you can't rush into any job. That's especially true when you are dealing with a third party (Arch, Eng. Des) and THEIR drawings.

My company is a Design/Build company, but most clients come to us after they have CD's.

My process goes like this:

-Receive drawings, mull over it. It takes me quite a bit of time to fully grasp the scope of work/details.

-I begin to build a budget around what I understand the job to be. I make notes of errors/missing specs/conflicting items/misleading notes/etc.

-I meet with the client/Arch and review the job and ask all of my questions, request further instruction.

-Go back and enter the changes into my budget/scope of work.

-Submit my proposal.

Now, sometimes you have to BID on a job by the plans alone (no meetings). That's just the incipient stage and you never sign a commitment without having worked out all the details. It's your name on the job, it's your responsibility.

Designers are human too and your best approach is to work with them, listen to them, step in their shoes and work TOGETHER to get the job done. Nothing destroys a project faster then when 3 parties are involved in a project, One has all the money and the other two can't stand the other's presence.

I'll tell you something else, when **** hits the fan, more often than not, it's the contractor who's packing up his tools and heading home. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.


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## Rocket Red (Jan 28, 2010)

Other than some bickering, this is a good thread.

As a "design professional" I have heard many of these complaints over the years and have generated some complaints of my own. We are engineers, so generally we take someone elses idea, and make it so it doesn't fall down, and can get a permit.

90% of the time communication is the issue for everyone involved. If you can establish a professional and possibly a cordial personal relationship with your designer you will save money. There is no doubt in my mind, that creating an atmosphere where you work interactively with your design team, instead of at odds-with them you can save money on the construction end of things.

If you shop your designers, pick the one with the lowest price, and then never call them until you have a problem with their plans, and then argue about who's fault the issue is, it will generally not work for all parties. You need to understand that most design pros, don't get any upside from each project. Our profit is built in to our hourly rates. If you are on the job, and come across an area that you can shave $2k off of the project cost by tweaking the design a little, you should do it. If you have a good relationship with your designer, and intend to pay them, call them up, reach a solution, get the design amended for $300 and save you or your customer $1700.

If you have a designer who makes mistakes and costs you money, you obviously do not do work with them anymore, and find someone new. There are a lot of us out there. 

Another caution I have is that you should never provide a project bid to an owner, prior to talking with your design professional of choice, or even better, having 90% permit plans in hand. 

Just recently I had a contractor come in and ask me for a drainage document for the jurisdiction. It was for a parking lot and some metal buildings. He had already given a bid for the site work to the owner, without any plans except stuff he had sketched up. I did the work and told him this was a preliminary submittal and the jurisdiction would review it and tell us what had to be on the final one. He nodded his head like he understood, I provided the jurisdiction the documents, which were done exactly per scope, exactly to code, on time and on budget. Just this morning the review letter came back, as I expected and had explained (but when I did he just got a glazed look in his eyes). He came in breathing fire, screaming, yelling, and fired me (even though we did not have a contract going forward), that I had not done what I said I would. I told him costs and timelines to meet the jurisdictions needs, and that we are happy to do it. He was incredulous that we needed to do more than we already had. Even though I explained it in person, in writing, and again in an e-mail. Essentially, I lose the customer for doing my job.

This could have been worked around had he just met with me prior to giving out his bid. I could have told him that there was $30k in design fees for this if there was a dollar. He could have got the fee from the owner at their initial budget talks, but now his ego is too big to go back hat in hand without throwing me under the bus, and picking someone new. Oh well. . .


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## ZACC (Feb 2, 2010)

freemason21 said:


> i hate it when the porter potty doesnt have a good amount of TP, thats a big complaint. then you gotta get creative and lose a sock or your boxers. oh and the size, im a big dude, at 6'2" pushin 300 those damn things dont do it for me. what gives? is there an XL portable john? is there? I NEED ANSWERS!!!


Well, they always have the handicap porta-can that are large enough to hold a small party in, if so desired. I am sure there is an up-charge for just such an accommodation.


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## ZACC (Feb 2, 2010)

This explains it all.


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## Home Designs (Sep 10, 2009)

*Checking in again*

Hey guys,

it has been a long, busy several months since my curiousity started this thread. I rarely tell people one thing about myself personally and just focus on business matters when i talk with them over the phone. My design knowledge needs to be portrayed first because some people go through shock when they walk in my office and see me sitting there in my wheelchair. I usually get a kick out of watching their expressions in the first 5 seconds. Then we start talking design and the wheelchair is forgotten.

I never worked in the field a day in my life. Everything i learned i learned from school, my dad and other builders and plenty of dinner time conversations. I have seen architect's drawings who have fancy degrees and they have no clue how to fasten a stud wall to a floor system. So, keep the comments coming. I am still getting my education where it matters - straight from the field.

God bless,
larry


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## Cjeff (Dec 14, 2009)

Hey Larry,
If you want input we will give it, as you can see from this thread.
DO you have regular carpenters you work with? Maybe have a feedback form and get feedback from them.
When I worked for another guy before he had a regular architect. Tried to give helpful feedback but she wanted none of it, really seemed she did not care. 
Guess she had enough other work, she lost ours.


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## ZACC (Feb 2, 2010)

*Larry,*

*I can offer you some feedback from someone who is not only a carpenter, but a designer as well. First, you will NEVER produce a perfect set of drawings, at least in the eyes of the contractor or field hands. I am not sure why, but field personnel always find a reason to throw the designer under the bus. I was a carpenter for years and participated in this critical opinion of the drawings we were working from. Later, as I began to design construction drawings, I tried to use my field experience to bridge this gap of criticism, with no avail.*

*The basic problem is that drawings are only a roadmap for the contractor to work from, and some designs are better than others, but the drawings coupled with the field hands experience is what brings a project to completion.*

*For example, there are about a million ways to design how to build a cabinet. Then, there are a million ways to actually build a cabinet. No matter what, the final product is what’s more important, not necessarily HOW you get there.*

*I am a baseball fan, so I like to use baseball analogies. The designer is the coach, the superintendent or foreman is the pitcher, and the field hands/carpenters are the other players on the field. The coach tells the pitcher what balls to throw, the foreman throws the pitch, and the players in the field have to field the ball and make plays. The coach (designer) tries to design plays that best fit his players in the field, but there are so many variables to how the ball will roll, he can NEVER think of everything. The players (contractors) have to be able to do what they do best, but be prepared to be flexible enough to get the job done when things don’t go their way. The pitcher (superintendent) is the go between to help the players succeed, and to provide feedback to the coach to get a win! But we always know, the coach (designer) always gets the blame when things go wrong, and seldom get praise when things go perfect. We always praise the players.*


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## Designbuilt (Feb 7, 2010)

*I would like to add a little bit more*

Willie T, I do understand your axiom, I have a similar one: "sometimes you have to admit that the sky is orange, when you know it's blue" the book entitled "The 48 laws of power" has a similar chapter entitled "Never outshine the Master" Same principle.

On occasion, I will meet with a stubborn examiner, who may be having a bad day or whatever ever the case; may insist on repetitive notes that serve no purpose but to crowd and mark up an otherwise perfect drawing or an examiner might want to see an original contract instead of a copy, eventhough others accept copies and a copy may be acceptable; like it or not I have to provide it.

Arguing, calling them out or going over their head, or what some people do is go to a different examiner, to avoid making the change in order obtain the permit faster. I've come to realize that this will only serve to make an enemy and when this is my livelihood, I just can't afford to do that, even if it works and I get my permit for that project. They are the kind of people who hold do grudges and later, will go out of their way to delay a project that may be more important. By playing their game, I have been able to negotiate with them and reach compromises later when I really needed it.

To Larry, I do understand where you're comming from and I respect that, I would however, never go in the field and tell the contractors how to do their job. I'm not qualified to do so, I can check the rough in, different phases and the final product, but that's the extent of my involvement. 
I know about Zoning Ordinances and laws, building codes and design. 

I know how to create something out of nothing. It's tougher than it looks, it's a lot easier to criticize someone else's work then it is to do it from scratch, it's the same as writing a story or a paper, the editor may be able to proof read it and find 1000 errors, but how many novels can he/she write?

Ok, you may be able to frame something, based on experience or using some carpenter rules of thumb tricks for spans, but some municipalities, require the structural calculations; live loads, stresses, etc. Electrical Load calculations, demands, for Mechanical and Vent., ASHRAE handbook calculations, etc. and show those calculations on the plan. Does the field teach you how to do that? I'm not doubting your talent or workmanship, but it's a matter of standards, legality and liability.

If something were to fail, who's going to take responsibility? There has to be a professional of record who signs and seals the drawings to take responsibility for them. It's the law, in Illinois at least, with the exception of the Farmer's law for Single family residences and I believe that up to 2 dwelling units if it's a frame building, but this applies only if the homeowner, designs a house for him/herself to live in. That's why a statement from the owner is required on those plans stating that they were done by him/her for their own use. You just can't take responsibilty for the life and safety of other people without the proper qualifications.

It takes, 5 years now, but I think they want to make it 6, years from an accredited school. 3 or 4 years of service work (depending on state) working under the supervision of a licensed professional (architect or Engineer) Then a grueling 3 day test called the ARE's. 

This test is pretty tough, because eventhough the drawing portion should be easy and learned by then, a lot of the math is tough, because at that point we really haven't been practicing it too much in the last several years, and there's also a structural section which is pretty difficult as well. 

I can only recommend, or it should go without saying that your work has to be checked by a licensed professional, and depending on the wording of your state laws, they have to supply the appropriate legal certifications and assume responsibility for the work. 

Hell, how many diy'ers can just say, "well I hired TCI plumbing and they charged me $2000 to do such and such job. I did it myself for $400 in 1/2 a day. I reckon, I should go get me some of them fancy overalls, so my buttcrack don't show, and a few pipe wrenches and go into this here profession full time. Whatda ya say Emily?"

They do it themselves, and open a company called Harry's plumbing and start taking on jobs, or even do it using someone else's license to get permits. It happends, is it right? How would you feel about it? 

I have plenty of work, more than I can handle actually, so I'm not bitter at those who do this. 

I guess that everything that people do, no matter what it is, can be either right or wrong in their eyes and may be looked at a whole different way in someone else's eyes. If you want to take the example of Jesus Christ (not to bring in religion, because that may be out of line) but as a carpenter (although he may have been non-union, not sure, maybe the 12 apostles was the name of his group, Yeah, infact I think Paul was the steward) At any rate...

His teachings were based on the belief that you should put yourself in the other person's shoes and ask how you would like to be treated, I try use that philosophy for pretty much everything I do.

But I really know nothing about execution, in the field that is learned through experience, not really reading or researching, that is a hands on, experience oriented trade. For the record, I have always had an excellent relationship with most of the contractors that I have worked with, actually all of them, except for maybe 1 or 2. 

One contractor comes to mind, the Drawing clearly called for TJI's, I had a section, the size and span on the drawings with elevations and I asked him if he knows TJI's he said "of course, I do this job for 30 years", then looked at me as if I insulted him. Well, he framed a flat roof with 2x12's at 24"!

If I am going to contribute something valuable to this thread for the Opening poster it's to know the codes. That is your best tool, I work as a code consultant as part of my work, meaning that I consult with other architects regarding the Zoning Ordinance/Building code and permitting process in Chicago. 

I find that a lot of architects who have experience in the Suburbs but not Chicago, are completely blown away the first few times they deal with our building code and permitting process. 

That is the best negotiating tool that I use when dealing with the clients and contractors. My response is usually, "that's what the City requires" and that's the end of it, no more arguements from anyone. 

All of us here know that certain things work in the field (like PVC) but are not always allowed, or only in certain cases. 
Eventhough a contractor may know what works and how it's been done for decades, requirements may be different and codes change. 
Think of the building code as the law, the drawings as a petition to file a motion. The approved set of drawings is a stamped motion. The inspectors are merely cops, they can only go by what's on the approved legal document. 

Even if the document approved has a small variation or allowance that is not in absolute strict conformance, it's good and legal. Just as it's up to the judge's discretion to make a decision on a motion.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Designbuilt said:


> Willie T, I do understand your axiom, I have a similar one: "sometimes you have to admit that the sky is orange, when you know it's blue" the book entitled "The 48 laws of power" has a similar chapter entitled "Never outshine the Master" Same principle.


This is perhaps one way of taking what I said….


Willie T said:


> Beginning way back then I started to understand that being right doesn’t matter much if you aren’t also willing to be wrong.


… but it isn’t really what I meant.

What I was speaking of was the inflexibility of stubborn pride, and its detrimental effect on our performance and reputation.

Some people feel that they must present a perfect and perpetually correct image to the world. Not simply that they feel they should _strive_ to do so, but that they MUST succeed in the effort. In other words, they often insist on holding to a position even if proven wrong.

The relevance to which I was attempting to apply that particular axiom is that I know that since only one man was ever perfect, I need to be willing to accept that I am not. Period. 

The operative phrase, or attitude, here might be seen as _willing to *BE* wrong_, as opposed to _appearing to accept_ an opposing opinion as correct.


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## thom (Nov 3, 2006)

Give clear guidance throughout the process.

Foundation plans, include diagonal lengths for squaring and distances from property lines. Do site inspection prior to construction to insure property lines are adequately marked. Include elevation and grading dimensions.

Framing plans. Show headder sizes in floor plans. Show dimensions to edge of door openings and window openings, not to center. Detail all trusses to show exact locations of chases. Provide dimensions for all walls to edge of wall, not center. Dimensions should be to framing, not finished surfaces. 

Roof Framing plan, including details for lookouts, truss types, etc. 

Floor Framing plan, include all details including girders, hardware, and exact locations of joists. Dimension to edge of framing, not center. 

Stair framing plan. Detail it. Double check for head clearance then check it again. You should be able to include exact rise and run. 

Plumbing plan. Detail plumbing including stacks to insure the plumbing will work. Compare to framing plan. Don't sit a commode on a joist. Don't center a plumbing wall on a joist. 

HVAC plan. Detail ducts including duct sizing to insure they will fit without obstruction. Detail vents on all gas appliances to insure they will fit without obstruction. 

Provide details on cabinets and all built-ins. It's your job to get these issues settled with the owner.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh, one more item I almost forgot. Down here, most homes are CBS (or was that NBC? Maybe ABC or FOX? :clap: Sorry, 'bout dat!) 

So why not (if it is possible under the specific layout restraints) set window and door RO's to blockwork dimensions? If it truly makes no difference, why call out a point of something like 14' 6-3/4" to the edge of a window opening?

Now, this is one of those times when I guess the Archie figures the contractor has enough sense to go ahead and set the window where it works out for the masons. BUT if there WAS an unspecified reason to have the window there, all hell is going to break loose (and it SHOULD!) if the contractor moves it an inch and a quarter or so.


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## noahweb (Feb 9, 2010)

The NUMBER ONE complaint I hear as a GC is - "It was on the blueprint".

Well....actually. No it WAS NOT! Would you like to go to my office and take a look?


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## Designbuilt (Feb 7, 2010)

thom said:


> Give clear guidance throughout the process.
> 
> Foundation plans, include diagonal lengths for squaring and distances from property lines. Do site inspection prior to construction to insure property lines are adequately marked. Include elevation and grading dimensions.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with all of the above EXCEPT provide exact locations of framing members. I did it that way when I started and EVERYONE chewed me out. 

My boss, the City, contractors, etc. It crowds the plan and is a waste of a lot of time. They only want to see the direction, spacing, size and type of the framing members. Every single person who saw this said "You do all this extra work for nothing, they know what they're doing, it's their job"
I guess to rectify that, the architect should include the words (minimum or maximum) whatever the case may be) i.e if we have 2x4 @ 16 o.c. Hopefully the carpenter will know that it can be less than 16 but not greater. 

In the case of a porch let's say the ballusters are listed as max 4" spacing, the contractor would know to space them out as eq/eq if they don't quite make 4" between posts or columns. Perhaps for the ceiling and floor joist, I can see this as a valid arguement though, since they are much larger members and would be harder to deal with. Thanks for the input I will take that into consideration myself.


All other items that you mentioned, are required to be shown on the plan.

If I want to give one final post on this, here it is, this is how I structure my plans for a SFR.

Sheet: 
A1: Title sheet, legal description, site plan/plot plan, North arrow, scale, with all dimensions (building and property lines and yards) Parking, etc. Street name and direction of traffic. Names and contact info of all parties involved: (Owner, Architect, Engineer if any) Chicago also requires what is called a "Code Matrix" It's a chart that list different issues and asks the architect to list what sheet of the drawing proves compliance with the building code for that issue.

A2: Foundation plan, include the footing details and elevation, material and thickness of slab and fill, etc. 

A3: Basement and 1st floor plan, (Fully dimension, number and label all rooms, windows doors, halls, etc). I use tags for the doors, walls and windows (to not crowd the plan too much) If I can I will include the electrical with this, switches, outlets, etc. This sheet can may also have the natural light and vent calculations (but I will put these on the Mechanical sheet and incorporate with the heatloss schedule if it's new construction), Door and window schedules, wall sections. This plan will also have kitchen cabinet elevations.

A4: Elevations, all four sides, truss diagrams, if there wasn't enough room on sheet A3: you can put the window and door schedule here. Porch Details, notes and elevations, rise/run, etc, framing members but if it's a porch more than 1 story, it get's a separate sheet or even 2.

M-1: Mechanical sheet, I take out all dimensions and lighten the line weight of the floor plan. I show locations of the furnace(s) and water heater. Provide Mechanical heatloss data and calculations, plus equipment schedule with make and model numbers, etc. All duct size locations and vents and returns, with supply cfm shown. Also the Isometric diagrams for Mechanical units and heaters.

E: Electrical Sheet depending on how big it is, I can put the load calculations and Electrical service diagram on one sheet. Or group it with the Plumbing sheet that follows or I've even made one sheet for all MEP's.
(I do this because the contractors really don't need to see this, it's for the sake of the city reviewing our work to ensure that the requirements are met) Hell, they keep drawings in Vent for 2 weeks sometimes!

P: Plumbing: the piping diagrams and fixture schedules. (If I had no room on the previous sheets)


Hope some of this helps or gives you some ideas.



I may also put the plumbing fixture schedule on the architectural plan, I usually do in fact. Because again, I don't like to show too many floor plans and too many sheets, it's amateurish, and if one thing changes, everything else will have to be changed as well, which is fine while it's in Autocad mode, but what if this has to be done AFTER the job has been printed and reviewed with some approvals, but not all?


Hope this helps.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Since I've blasted a lot, I want to also compliment a company I work with, BDG Architects. They do something I just love (besides drawing good plans). They put a "Building Code Summary" on their cover pages. They list, chapter by chapter, changes, omissions, and exemptions pertinent to that particular project. It's really a handy feature.


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## Designbuilt (Feb 7, 2010)

Willie T said:


> Since I've blasted a lot, I want to also compliment a company I work with, BDG Architects. They do something I just love (besides drawing good plans). They put a "Building Code Summary" on their cover pages. They list, chapter by chapter, changes, omissions, and exemptions. It's really a handy feature.


 
Yes.. Willie, It's goes on all of my plans as well. It's called the "Code Matrix" All of the city of chicago plans require this, and they also require the architect to show what page of their drawings, proves compliance with each section of that code. For example at the end of the chart, after the numbers are place in for let's say minimum ceiling heights or head clearance, we input the number and include the sheet number (A-4) That way the examiner knows where to look for each item.


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## Willie T (Jan 29, 2009)

Designbuilt said:


> Yes.. Willie, It's goes on all of my plans as well. It's called the "Code Matrix" All of the city of chicago plans require this, and they also require the architect to show what page of their drawings, proves compliance with each section of that code. For example at the end of the chart, after the numbers are place in for let's say minimum ceiling heights or head clearance, *we input the number and include the sheet number (A-4) That way the examiner knows where to look for each item*.


That's neat. No, I don't get that on my plans.


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## Designbuilt (Feb 7, 2010)

We are trying to get the word out that the drawings should be made easier to understand to avoid this for instance.


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