# kicked off job with no notice



## trecore (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi,

First time on this site, thought I'd provide some info that may keep some of our guys out of trouble. First off we're a state licensed general, electrical, mechanical and plumbing contractor. We get a call to help to do some electrical repairs to this guest house. Every time you turned the light on you got shocked when you walked in the house. She had a permit on the house and it was a mostly completed guest home on the water. Over a period of two to three months we do more and more work plumbing, electrical rewiring, etc , the house was always full of different people of different trades etc.,some laying tile, landscaping none of them working for us. We had completed about 20,000.00 worth of work, most of it under contract and had two men floating some drywall when the homeowner's wife comes screaming into the living room yelling at them to get out of her house. They call our shop and we tell them to leave. The woman had apparently been burned 10 yrs ago in a car wreck and was on serious meds. They had amassed their fortune through lawsuits, which we found out toward the end of our work. We tried to get back to finish, the homeowner wouldn't let us back. Wrote him two letters requesting permission to finish and payment. Ignored them both. He files a lawsuit. He changed his mind and remodeled the house again. Relocated tubs, fixtures and said it was our fault. He used foreign labor who fled, so we were the most reputable guy left standing so we get stuck trying to defend a b.s. lawsuit, we get sued for 50k plus pain and suffering another 250k, so over the last 6 months we pay over 5,000.00 in lawyers fees so far. Been in business over 20 yrs, we always make things right, never have seen anything like this. I'm over 60 and this must be the sign its time to retire. Be careful out there and good luck.

Even if you have a contract, it can still cost you. There is no telling when this will be over, even if you do everything right.


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## ribuilder (Jan 10, 2009)

speechless


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

Feel for you man. What are we supposed to do? Do a background check on every customer?


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

Maintain a daily log book and take photos every other day. Document an incident like this in as much detail as possible.

That'll help your court case.


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## rustyjames (Aug 28, 2008)

ribuilder said:


> speechless


That's one of the reasons I know so many people who gave up remodeling and either went to work for a company, or got into another profession.


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## rselectric1 (Sep 20, 2009)

That bites. Thanks for the post.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

480sparky said:


> Maintain a daily log book and take photos every other day. Document an incident like this in as much detail as possible.
> 
> That'll help your court case.


Yes, as a site super, you are required to keep a daily log. And the judge/court considers this one of the most important documents in a dispute.


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

> What are we supposed to do? Do a background check on every customer?


you don't????


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## abacab (Sep 16, 2009)

What we all need is a personal audio video recorder that records everything we do and say, every phone call, every movement. It's just as bad with dealing with large companies, they tell you one thing one day, and then another on another day. Then they tell you we have no record of us saying that or talking to you.


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

mics_54 said:


> you don't????


No, actually I don't. How can you protect yourself from crazy?


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

Here is a good place to start.
Listening to what the customer says helps too. If they talk alot about how many times they've been involved with "problem contractors" in the past...RED FLAG!

http://www.brbpub.com/pubrecsites.asp


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## PrestigeR&D (Jan 6, 2010)

*Trecor*

If the situation is what you say it is,,,,sounds like this client has a pattern of getting free money-and it doesn't matter how. I hope your lawyer is able to drag her through her own trail of mud she seams to have left behind. I pray that your case finally puts people like this paying for there immoral motives,,they are the utter scum of the earth-and I hope she has to pay BIG TIME:thumbsup:
Brian


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## kuponoconstr (Feb 15, 2010)

sometimes it seems like the more money they've got, the more crazy they are!


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## PA woodbutcher (Mar 29, 2007)

Although I like a "high end" customer once in awhile, I'll take the guy that's just getting by every time. Less stress and the money most always comes faster.

Trecore....Hoping every thing works out for you.


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## Kent Whitten (Mar 24, 2006)

I've been burned a few times (lesson learned on a few things) and I know from talking with a few lawyers I hired that if someone wants to make your life miserable.....they will. Doesn't matter who is right. Some will take you down just because they feel like it.


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## Carpenter Wayne (Dec 21, 2009)

kuponoconstr said:


> sometimes it seems like the more money they've got, the more crazy they are!


Agreed.

Also (and this is from personal experience) - the more $$ they have means the more easy it is for them to use that against you to win lawsuits/etc. or at least fight you until you give up fighting against them while losing your shirt. :blink:

The world is full of scammers/cons - beware :w00t:


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

trecore said:


> Hi,
> 
> First time on this site, thought I'd provide some info that may keep some of our guys out of trouble. First off we're a state licensed general, electrical, mechanical and plumbing contractor. We get a call to help to do some electrical repairs to this guest house. Every time you turned the light on you got shocked when you walked in the house. She had a permit on the house and it was a mostly completed guest home on the water. Over a period of two to three months we do more and more work plumbing, electrical rewiring, etc , the house was always full of different people of different trades etc.,some laying tile, landscaping none of them working for us. We had completed about 20,000.00 worth of work, most of it under contract and had two men floating some drywall when the homeowner's wife comes screaming into the living room yelling at them to get out of her house. They call our shop and we tell them to leave. The woman had apparently been burned 10 yrs ago in a car wreck and was on serious meds. They had amassed their fortune through lawsuits, which we found out toward the end of our work. We tried to get back to finish, the homeowner wouldn't let us back. Wrote him two letters requesting permission to finish and payment. Ignored them both. He files a lawsuit. He changed his mind and remodeled the house again. Relocated tubs, fixtures and said it was our fault. He used foreign labor who fled, so we were the most reputable guy left standing so we get stuck trying to defend a b.s. lawsuit, we get sued for 50k plus pain and suffering another 250k, so over the last 6 months we pay over 5,000.00 in lawyers fees so far. Been in business over 20 yrs, we always make things right, never have seen anything like this. I'm over 60 and this must be the sign its time to retire. Be careful out there and good luck.
> 
> Even if you have a contract, it can still cost you. There is no telling when this will be over, even if you do everything right.


I don't know how this got to where you're now, but something here don't sound right.

We did 20k in work, most of it under the contract... What is most of it? 10k...15k? How did it get to 20K?

He files a lawsuit and changes his mind and remodels everything, moving tubs,etc and he files a 50k lawsuit? and on top of that for pain and suffering? First of all, there is no pain and suffering in construction lawsuits, unless...you're negligent by doing something to cause them pain and suffering i,e. they took a dive off of second story balcony because railing wasn't secured properly, or they used the bath tub on the second floor and end up on the first floor, etc.

You paying 5k in legal fees but you not filing a counter lawsuit? Thats a little strange. What is the legal fees are for and what are you defending, if you didn't do anything wrong? 

What is your location? Even in lala land you cannot file a 50K lawsuit and 250k pain and suffering suit without a cause...You need proof.

So my friend, you're full of it or you not saying everything...


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## kevjob (Aug 14, 2006)

WOW way back when there was a law that stated frivoulous lawsuits would be thrown out and you would have to pay lawyers cost and court cost, guess that is gone now too. SO I am going to need 50k for my pain and suffering from reading about pain and suffering. :blink:


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## katoman (Apr 26, 2009)

kevjob said:


> WOW way back when there was a law that stated frivoulous lawsuits would be thrown out and you would have to pay lawyers cost and court cost, guess that is gone now too. SO I am going to need 50k for my pain and suffering from reading about pain and suffering. :blink:


We'll take up a collection.:thumbup:


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## knucklehead (Mar 2, 2009)

That is pretty funny


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## chris klee (Feb 5, 2008)

Greg, 
you can file a lawsuit for anything. If you want to file suit cause the guy next to you smells funny you can. It will most likely get thrown out, but you can try anything. 
Your right about pain and suffering. That gets thrown out as soon as the judge looks at it in contract cases. All that the court allows for construction cases is actual damages and court costs.


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## FowlOne (May 2, 2009)

Bad things have been known to happen to people like this.....:whistling


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

chris klee said:


> Greg,
> you can file a lawsuit for anything. If you want to file suit cause the guy next to you smells funny you can. It will most likely get thrown out, but you can try anything.
> Your right about pain and suffering. That gets thrown out as soon as the judge looks at it in contract cases. All that the court allows for construction cases is actual damages and court costs.


Sure, you can file it, don't mean it will go anywhere, and if it does and when notice received, attorney responds to that lawyer saying his client alleging breach of contract or what ever it is and seeking so much $$$ in damages without merit. If they have nothing, no lawyer will take the case because they know there is consequences,i,e: defamation of character, punitive damages, special damages,etc. No attorney will be willing to stake they reputation on the bogus suit and the lawsuit of that magnitude can only be filed by an attorney. 

So this guy is full of it or he really messed something up in there.


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## BarryE (Dec 12, 2009)

greg24k said:


> No attorney will be willing to stake they reputation on the bogus suit and the lawsuit of that magnitude can only be filed by an attorney.


Guessing you've never done work for an attorney...or anyone else who has more money than sense.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

BarryE said:


> Guessing you've never done work for an attorney...or anyone else who has more money than sense.


As a matter a fact I did lots of work for Attorneys, built a house for one and for a Judge, whats your point? I don't get it...

Are you telling me there is people out there, who got nothing to do and will file a bogus lawsuit after someone did a good job for them and they will do this just because they have money and they can f^*k with you? I doubt that very much...


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## Paulie (Feb 11, 2009)

I think we've all had jobs that "expanded". I can only speak for me and when this happens we complete the original scope of work (maybe with a change order or two) then close that contract out. Back end of payment due.

Then we sit back down and start over with a new one. Never let it get to 20k. :no:


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## 480sparky (Feb 1, 2009)

greg24k said:


> ............Are you telling me there is people out there, who got nothing to do and will file a bogus lawsuit after someone did a good job for them and they will do this just because they have money and they can f^*k with you? I doubt that very much...


 
There certainly ARE people who make a lot of money by not paying their bills and filing lawsuits.

You just haven't run across one of them............................ yet.


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## Splinter (Apr 5, 2005)

greg24k said:


> Are you telling me there is people out there, who got nothing to do and will file a bogus lawsuit after someone did a good job for them and they will do this just because they have money and they can f^*k with you?.


Yes, there sure are.. There are a lot of scumbags in this world... I've met a few... They're sweet as pie up until the moment they turn on you.


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## stacker (Jan 31, 2006)

PA woodbutcher said:


> Although I like a "high end" customer once in awhile, I'll take the guy that's just getting by every time. Less stress and the money most always comes faster.
> 
> Trecore....Hoping every thing works out for you.


i would much rather work for someone that has to save to do the work,than for someone who has the money in the bank.
when working for the one who has to save,they are always there on the spot to pay when you are finished,or if you need a draw,they are happy to give it to you.
the ones with money always seems to be gone when you complete your job,or find you need to mow the grass before they will pay you.

i did a job for my former banker a couple years ago.i had completed about $2500.00 worth of stone work,and needed $600 to pay off my pickup loan at the bank.when i called him to ask him for the money to pay it off,he balked and said he would think about it,and that he more than likely would.a week later the bank shows up to repo my pickup.i was more than hot.when i went into the bank to talk to him,he told me that i always seemed to come to him when i needed money.whereas i told him,only when i am working for you and i have more money owed to me than i am asking for.i gave him a bill for everything he owed me to that point(around $4,000) and told him i would have my equipment off his job by that afternoon,even tho i wasnt finished with his job.
long story short,he payed me and talked me into finishing his work,but only after agreeing to pay me when ever i submitted an invoice.he doesnt know it but i padded my bill for 600.00 just for him being an azzhole.


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## BarryE (Dec 12, 2009)

greg24k said:


> Are you telling me there is people out there, who got nothing to do and will file a bogus lawsuit after someone did a good job for them and they will do this just because they have money and they can f^*k with you? I doubt that very much...


I used to live in a fairy tale world also and I don't want you to wake up to this world any sooner than needed....keep believing..you're right


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## parts (Jan 28, 2009)

When I worked of a company that did lots of reno work in Greenwich Ct and surrounding areas we go stiffed more than anywhere else or sent that talk to my lawyer letter. Odd the way thing work you or I would go out of our way to play people even if we can hardly afford it where they just shoe you away


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## edwardbros (Sep 30, 2009)

Unfortunately, it's true people do that. A fellow builder here just had that happen to him, the builder is pretty anal, and is a stickler for quality work. But the HO found something to complain about, and when HO told him, he would take him to court. He threw in there I don't care about your contract, I have more money than you. I'll WIN!

The Crap thing was he did win, the builder even had to file chapter 13.


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## mics_54 (Oct 28, 2008)

It only makes sense to checkout clients of large ticket projects to AT LEAST the degree an employer would check out a prospective employee.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

I don't know how things work down south or mid-west, they sure don't work like this down here. I never heard anyone pull this crap unless HO got screwed, or someone did not deliver what was in the contract.


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## TheToolMan (Feb 6, 2010)

greg24k said:


> As a matter a fact I did lots of work for Attorneys, built a house for one and for a Judge, whats your point? I don't get it...
> 
> Are you telling me there is people out there, who got nothing to do and will file a bogus lawsuit after someone did a good job for them and they will do this just because they have money and they can f^*k with you? I doubt that very much...


You don't get out much, do you?


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## Framer53 (Feb 23, 2008)

greg24k said:


> I don't know how things work down south or mid-west, they sure don't work like this down here. I never heard anyone pull this crap unless HO got screwed, or someone did not deliver what was in the contract.


Greg, trust me, there are such people. I ran into 2 in my years working.
You have been lucky not to have run into them, yet.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

abacab said:


> What we all need is a personal audio video recorder that records everything we do and say, every phone call, every movement. It's just as bad with dealing with large companies, they tell you one thing one day, and then another on another day. Then they tell you we have no record of us saying that or talking to you.


and that would land you in trouble under unlawful surveillance law if you don't follow the procedure correctly.

i.e. you could be having a conversation with someone and taping. In a one party consent state, that would be admissible. In an all party state, you better have documented consent of everyone or else it isn't. If the conversation caught is between other people (i.e. between two of your employees) it might even constitute eavesdropping. 

The law is complicated.


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## Electric_Light (Nov 25, 2007)

stacker said:


> i padded my bill for 600.00 just for him being an azzhole.


Regardless of how much you dislike the guy, you're going to get in serious trouble for that if/when you get caught later.


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

TheToolMan said:


> You don't get out much, do you?


Define "Getting out to much" ?! :laughing:


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## greg24k (May 19, 2007)

Framer53 said:


> Greg, trust me, there are such people. I ran into 2 in my years working.
> You have been lucky not to have run into them, yet.


Framer, I know what you saying and I don't know I've been lucky or not... But when I submit my proposal, I have everything included what will be done, what exactly will be installed,i,e. description of all the materials, how much will it cost and what the payment schedule will be. Nothing gets done further, until all the payments received according to a contract. If there is a change order or upgrade, everything is paid upfront and signed by HO and me and I never had a problem doing business this way. 
On a few occasions people will ask, we don't want to give you so much money,because how can I trust you-you will do the job...How can trust a HO he will pay for the job I will do? The feeling is mutual, and I take a greater risk to take a beating if something should go wrong. That is why, we have contracts and payments schedules, and that is the policy how I run my business. 
I'm sure that I lose a certain % of customers because of my contracts, or my payment schedule... but it is what it is...I am in business to make money, not lose money. There is no other way to do business today...

As to OP tread... If this is true what he said, he is an idiot for getting involved in that project, and I can tell that, just from what he described went on on that job and if he got sued for so much money, I'm sure he deserved it, because to pay $5,000 in legal fees, there must be more to it then what he said in here.


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