# Finding excavating work and machine suggestions



## trailtoy1993 (Mar 1, 2015)

mattg2448 said:


> I'm going to try deciding on a few different areas to focus on and go from there, but try to be diverse at the same time, or for a better way to say, keep my doors open


I don't want to discourage you, but maybe a few years working for different contractors learning different skills wouldn't be a bad thing? 

I want to reinforce that, work will not fall out of the sky just because you opened the doors on a business. The hardest part is selling and it is the most, I repeat MOST important thing! Running a job and getting out marketing is super hard to work one job while getting your next job, that is the challenge. Find a niche and sell, sell , sell, sell, sell! Worry about sales, getting a machine comes after getting the work to pay for it. A rule of thumb is you should only buy what you can pay off in 5 years....


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

in south dakota in order to apply for a water/sewer contractor's license, you have to have sworn affadavits saying you worked for a licensed water/sewer contractor for a min. of two years.

i think it's a very good law. before it was on the books, we had a LOT of guys that rented a tractor hoe, low balled jobs to make payments, and left a BUNCH of buried train wrecks because they had no clue what they were doing. especially if they got into a tough/wet/congested situation.

if you have zero experience in intalling utilities, i would do land clearing, pond digging, etc. maybe hire a plumber or a licensed pipe layer to do you ditch ***** work so you can learn while you earn.


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## backhoe1 (Mar 30, 2007)

Saying that you don't have the capital to buy is the scariest part of this whole thing. I started out 8 years ago with absolutely nothing but a 13 year old pickup that was only half paid for. 

I never rented anything that I was going to need for more than a day or so.

I now have 2 excavators, 2 wheel loaders, 2 skidsteers, backhoe, dozer, blade, sheepsfoot, 9 tire packer, 5 dump trucks, 2 semis, side dump, lowboy, 3 pickups and a van. 

Most of the stuff I've financed required 10% down or other equity.

You can find good 200 sized excavators for around $50- $60K (210 Hyundai with 4600 hrs for example) $5500.00 down and $1300 month and it will be yours in a few years. What does it cost to rent a hoe? Most things cost more than a months payment per week.

I realize that I look at things differently but I have found that I can hire someone that owns the right piece of equipment to do the job generally cheaper than I can rent equipment.


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## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

I would also look into Kobelco excavators as well. They're a heck of a lot cheaper than anything Cat or Deere sells and I can tell you from experience that they are a top notch machine. They're usually my second stop for rentals when/if my Caterpillar dealer doesn't have anything


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## trailtoy1993 (Mar 1, 2015)

peteo said:


> I would also look into Kobelco excavators as well. They're a heck of a lot cheaper than anything Cat or Deere sells and I can tell you from experience that they are a top notch machine. They're usually my second stop for rentals when/if my Caterpillar dealer doesn't have anything


+2 on kobelco! I had a 250 lc-6 all turned up that was my favorite machine of all time. Super fast and powerful


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

Alright, I took some time this weekend to sit down, and really go over my short and long term goals, my interest and my skills, and make out a half assed plan (ran out of time.)

So the areas I am going to stick to for now is site prep, land clearing, earth shaping, ponds, storm water retention ponds, driveways, ect. I have a list of general contractors and site contractors to talk to that know who I am, know my skills, know what I'm capable of, also it includes a few that don't know me, but I know their reputation. I will focus on my specialties, and sell based on that. Anything that falls into my catigories I will take as long as it's not beyond my ability, of course I am not gonna over book either. And this list is just to start me off, then from there I can direct myself to other contractors.

Sooner than later I will look at some extra education/training for some of the more specialized areas (sewer, water, possibly roads, but that's sketchy to me, state is broke as heck)

As far as excavators, how do you guys like the service from kobelco, we have 1 dealer in my area and they suck plus the parts are outrageously priced and hard to get.


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## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

mattg2448 said:


> Alright, I took some time this weekend to sit down, and really go over my short and long term goals, my interest and my skills, and make out a half assed plan (ran out of time.)
> 
> So the areas I am going to stick to for now is site prep, land clearing, earth shaping, ponds, storm water retention ponds, driveways, ect. I have a list of general contractors and site contractors to talk to that know who I am, know my skills, know what I'm capable of, also it includes a few that don't know me, but I know their reputation. I will focus on my specialties, and sell based on that. Anything that falls into my catigories I will take as long as it's not beyond my ability, of course I am not gonna over book either. And this list is just to start me off, then from there I can direct myself to other contractors.
> 
> ...


That tells you all you need to know about your options with kobelco then


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

I'll look into some other dealers a little father away, kinda like volvo, they are not that huge of a brand in michigan, so there's not that many dealers/suppliers. I've also started requesting part prices (undercarriage rebuild kit, pin/bushing kit, filter kit, random cylinder rebuild, ect) to try to get an idea of service cost on each machine.


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

Actually feeling a lot more confident, the weather is getting better and after talking to a few potential customers I have 2 good sized jobs lined up and 2 I'm doing estimates on saturday. 

I really want to thank you guys for all of the help, I know I'm going to need more in the future, but what I have learned here has helped me focus more and I think has created a more professional way to do and look at jobs. 

I am definitely waiting on equipment, found a few good used pieces to give me an idea of what to look for and what price range I should be in. 

Once again I have to thank you guys, this community is awesome!

So to start on another small topic, does any one use crane mats or mud mats? One area I know I could specialize in is pond dredging and expansion, and mud mats seem like a great way to get in the muck and not get stuck. I thought about buying a set, but I am considering making a few that would work for a 35-55k lbs machine, and I think it's anywhere from 8-12 inch square by 16ft wide


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## Energy4 (Jan 7, 2015)

Here is a video about that subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N016tWSN4cA


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

So according to yhat vidro, which i like, it's a great video to get a basic understanding of the financial aspect of hhe loans, what's your guys opinion, better to have lower profits and a bigger write off in the beginning or a few more years down the line? For my personal self, the more profit would be nice to put towards a cash purchase, or for future use, but still living at home and soaking it while I can this may be a better time to invest more as I don't need much personally to take up, no house paymemt, just rent, phone food, ect.


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## Gld700 (Aug 12, 2012)

This video I think is very unrealistic in that not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. I would not be where I'm at today without first The Lord and second good credit. I agree that it sucks paying interest which in turn cuts profit but I see no way to keep up with the equipment market without taking the risk of getting the right tools for the job now. I have a great example that I'm sure most of you are aware of. In 2010 we purchased a new compact track loader for approximately $48,500. That same loader today is $83,500. With that said there is no way the profit made from that machine would allow someone to pay cash for it four years later. So my point is I think we as contractors need to constantly be aware of the equipment markets and ADJUST our prices accordingly along with all the other overhead in business. Remember folks, every time we turn that key on, that machine is wearing out and one will have to be replaced. And for those running old equipment, parts are not getting any cheaper either! :no:


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

that's where monthly sit downs with your accountant will help steer you in the direction of how much to spend, how much you can/should borrow.

markets, the aggressiveness of the contractor, ability to repay loans will dictate what kind of equipment they run...

just as important as the type of equipment you run...is establishing/maintaining your bid/performance bond capabilities. without them, you're kinda sunk.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Gene, you bored ?? I am bidding a job now. Lots of 15" storm piping. 5-10' deep all rock. Lots of hammering to do. You can come out to PA and we can drink some Yuengling.


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

sure! RCP, CMP, or poly?

they're old, but you want to see some old exel spreadsheets on jobs we did?


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

dayexco said:


> sure! RCP, CMP, or poly?
> 
> they're old, but you want to see some old exel spreadsheets on jobs we did?


n-12 hdpe

sure, pass them along

[email protected]


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

I find the challenge fun, taking appropriate measures to do something right, and to make the customer happy. Calculating risk and finding solutions to jobs. Here's something I'm bidding right now...

A storm water retention pond needs to be dredged where the intake is, about 20ft max wide by 30ft max long, 2.5 ft deep, all small sediment from the storm drains. My first though was that I have to haul it out, there's no way I can dig a borrow pit in this area. Next is getting a truck close enough to reach an excavator, which as you can see, my access isn't too great, may cause some foundation issues. So I called up a vac truck company and got some info, they can't suck it out from the road. Another reason for considering a vac truck is that it is a sealed container, I don't need sediment and water leaking out of a dump truck, tickets are costly. 

So now my proposal consist of getting an excavator and small tracked dump truck, filling the truck up, tracking out to the street and using a vac truck to suck it out of the bed. This leaves minimal disturbance of the existing grass, sidewalks(older, in moderate condition) and sprinkler system. 

Does anyone see anything in this approach that I should be careful of or that I should consider changing?



As for loans for equipment, I understand exactly where everyone is coming from. I am going to rent for now, and I get some good kickbacks from my dealer because of the interest in purchase in the future. Rent for now, save my money and purchase some used equipment in a few months with cash/small amount of credit.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Those vac trucks do not hold much and can get very expensive. I came up with 55yds which is 4 tri-axle roads. I would look into a compact track loader to scoop it up after the hoe casts it out and put down some heavy plywood. Got a dump truck you can use ? Maybe a single axle or tandem. If you have to. Leave it sit out a day or 2 for the water to drain off.


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## Moxley-Kidwell (Jan 28, 2011)

Get a set of plans, there has got to be a way to access this thing other than in that picture. They are designed to have access for maintenance. Vac trucks are usually big money per hour plus the dump fee around my area.

Here is how I would approach it for another opinion and a few options to think about:

Pump the water out the outfall with a trash pump and sediment bag on the end, grade yourself in so you can use road trucks. You can put a little dry material up against the bottom of the tailgate and usually keep the muck in. We will work our way into the pond with a dozer and hoe, use the dozer to push muck to the hoe. Problem is usually finding somewhere to take it.

Sometimes you can just spread the muck on the slopes to let it dry then just fine grade and seed. It will grow grass pretty well. Throw it up on the slopes, let it set a bit, work it around with the dozer until you can grade grade it. Have to watch not to screw the storage up on the pond though.


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## Moxley-Kidwell (Jan 28, 2011)

Looks like Rino types faster than I do on this iPad.


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

Here's an area shot, there are 30-40ft pine trees and a 6ft county drain on the west side, there no room for entry there. I'm the north side there is another subdivision backed right up to a 10 ft high shrub line. 

I have yet to find a trucking company that wants to haul the crap out. Plus the home owner association doesn't want any thing disturbed :banghead:

It seems to be a lot to bite on.


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## Moxley-Kidwell (Jan 28, 2011)

That sucks, pretty pour design. Not enough room to walk off Bernstein up the side of the drainage? You could throw a temp 20' HDPE pipe in the ditch, cover and use as access pull and restore when done?

I'd try to talk them into pumping it down, muck it out onto the slopes, dry it and grade a thin layer over everything and hydro seed it. Pond looks big enough lose 5-6 loads over it all. 

Hoas are a pain in the a$$, want the work done but don't make a mess and do it dirt cheap. I have yet to be able to crack into the hoa work around here. They all want to put a cheap bandaide on everything and I refuse. Don't want my name on that BS. There is always someone to do the work though.

Good luck man, I think I'm out of ideas. That's a pretty tough and tight spot if they won't let you create good access. Fun to try to brainstorm though, pond work is pretty interesting.


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

I appreciate the brainstorming. I am honestly out of solutions, they said don't tear it up, there's a sprinkler system, residents are going to be extremely unhappy to see dirt on grass.. plus with little access and hauling it away, I am going to hand the torch to another contractor that is more than likely equipped and has more experience.


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

Just curious, has anyone thought about starting a thread to discuss different ways to go about a job? for instance some one can post a job, their plan, and ask for advice? It seems that even for experienced contractors it could bring more profitable ways of doing business...


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

I can't believe anyone purchased a house with that detention basin that close to their backdoor. Plus there is no chain link fence. Anyway, who owns that access point? Is it a storm water easement for a drainage pipe coming from the cul-de-sac? I never deal with any organization that has more than 1 decision maker. No matter what you do there will be people complaining. This goes for fire companies, HOA, soccer organizations, etc. 

Before you do anything, make sure they secure the permit. I would hate to see you go in there and get in trouble with soil and erosion. I had a guy call me one time to place fill and topsoil behind his house. He lives right on a lake in a big development. I told him we need to install silt fence. He said, what is that? I explained it to him and he said that was stupid. I left the site and never called him back. The fines can get pretty hefty.


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

I called for the erosion permit to get a price, so i figured on having that. that whole road is set up for storm water drains, everything leads to the cul-de-sac and from there into the pond.


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## rino1494 (Jan 31, 2006)

Moxley got me thinking. Instead of throwing the muck up on the slopes, can you place it right on the edge of the pond and mound it up about 3-4' high, shape it nice and make a planting bed. They can plant shrubs and cover it with mulch. A lot cheaper for the hoa.


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

Here's the side where I could put it, the widest part is maybe 13ft between the pond and bushline


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## peteo (Jan 8, 2011)

Pump the water down, scoop it out with a tracked skid steer and load it into either dump trucks or dumpsters. I don't think taking a big excavator in between those homes is a good idea


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

trailtoy1993 said:


> I don't want to discourage you, but maybe a few years working for different contractors learning different skills wouldn't be a bad thing?
> 
> I want to reinforce that, work will not fall out of the sky just because you opened the doors on a business. The hardest part is selling and it is the most, I repeat MOST important thing! Running a job and getting out marketing is super hard to work one job while getting your next job, that is the challenge. Find a niche and sell, sell , sell, sell, sell! Worry about sales, getting a machine comes after getting the work to pay for it. A rule of thumb is you should only buy what you can pay off in 5 years....


Well, the true update of time. I really want to start off the business right, and that is providing the best services I can. The only way I see doing that and opening up more doors for the future is knowing as much as I can before starting. So 3 days ago I got a job offer for a position through a company, the owner understands that I want to open a business and is willing to teach me different skill sets and introduce me to other industries, along with teaching me the business side of things. Hopefully within 2 years I can get my knowledge in and purchase equipment with cash (used, I've dealt with the fact that I can't afford new) and I will know the areas I can specialize in and want to. 


So on that note, the business is on hold, for now.


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## NicParish (Aug 15, 2013)

I know you are putting yours on hold, but if someone comes to this thread for info about how to get jobs. Google some local companies. Talk to general contractors, home builders, and developers. They will call you to price work and you can work your way in!

And get your license! You don't want to get busy and not have time to go get it and not be able to bid projects! In my state you have to hold a license to have a contract over $50k.


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

Now I see everyone talking about being licensed, good time to ask, is there licenses other than the all inclusive "builders license"?


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## dayexco (Mar 4, 2006)

In south dakota there is a water sewer contractor license and a separate one for septic/drain field installs.


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## mrcharles (Sep 27, 2011)

mattg2448 said:


> Now I see everyone talking about being licensed, good time to ask, is there licenses other than the all inclusive "builders license"?




Here in Michigan you need a residential builder's license or a maintenance and alteration license with a excavation specialty... Here is a good link for what you need.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/General_337792_7.pdf


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## mattg2448 (Jan 26, 2015)

This underground job I got into has me learning a ton, loader operator in the water, sewer and storm crew. Very high demanding, but it's nice to be able to learn and earn. 

Good news is that it's 5 days a week, and I can still complete side work. I just won a project for putting in geothermal (I dig, the home owner installs, he installs for a living) and digging a small pond, starting that next weekend. This will also give me a great opportunity to learn how geothermal works. 

It's good to know the dream isn't completely dead


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## Chompdemolition (Nov 16, 2015)

Yes, I have experience with these machines. The machines are very smooth. For any type of excavation and demolition work these machines are the perfect solution.


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## Jason16 (5 mo ago)

mattg2448 said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm still in the beginning stages of my business but I'm almost ready for spring (couldn't get here fast enough, this morning was a balmy -8 ), I have most of the essentials set up, quickbooks, tax forms, a small chunk of capital, insurance is ready on my call. But I am getting nervous that the work load will be pretty thin this year. Mind you that the work that interest me is land clearing, ponds, concrete removal, even digging basements and crawlspaces. I just do not want to bite off too much of my first meal.
> 
> So how do you guys advertise for work? I started with a good looking professional website, have ads on craigslist, and business cards, still I think I could be doing more. Is it acceptable business principles to ask about overflow jobs from other contractors? Better to do it in person or does it not make that much of a difference. I'm trying to find the work and play it safe too, with a limited capital and on my first year of running.
> ...


hey so I’m just curious to know how are things looking these days did you pull through with starting your company ? I’m going through the same phase atm


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