# Homeowner in Charlotte, NC seeking advice for new roof:



## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

Hand nail or nail gun for the shingles?? Am I sacrifing quality of work by having contractor use a nail gun? My house is 2500 sq/ft. If I ask for hand nailing, should I expect to pay an upcharge? If so, how much???

Owens Corning/Oakridge PRO 30 Series shingles (from Lowes) are what will be used and quoted by 3 different contractors. Good? Bad? Indifferent? 

I have a small area on my roof where a "cricket" was built and the pitch is less than 3/12, is a modified bitumen roof/torch applied the best way to go ??? If so, ask the roofer to use Firestone APP160 and lay down a layer felt first???

Is an Architectural shingle that much better AND worth the extra $$$ ($500-800)? Versus a 3 tab shingle. I'll be selling the house and moving due to job transfer in 3-5 years.

15lb or 30lb felt? (I'm leaning towards 30lb)


For Ice & Water shield, going to request Grace's I&W. Agree??

Thanks for any and all feedback. Great Forum for newbies like me.

DaveP


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Can you post a picture of the cricket area?


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

I'll post a pic tomorrow. Any feedback on the other questions?? Thx--Dave


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## jmorgan (Jan 31, 2004)

Gun or hand nail is about the same (no staples). The wire "burrs" on coil nails can interfere with the ice & water shield's seal around the fastener shaft...very rare. I have only seen this in ski areas with tremendous snow loads and ice dams. Not a problem in NC.
OC Oakridge 30's are architectural shingles.
Architectural shingles are NOT $20-32/sq more than 3-tabs. The $8-15/sq upgrade to architectural shingles is worth it....you will get this all back when you sell.
the cricket is OK w/APP Torched. 2 layers of Grace Ice & Water Shield and shingles will work for your cricket in North Carolina.
I use 30# and Grace.
Jim


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

Jmorgan-
Are you saying that the cricket would be fine with just 2 layers of I&W and shingles??? That the APP is not a "must" or is perhaps overkill??? I've been told that anything under 3/12 really should have a bitumen roof. Thanks for the reply


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## jmorgan (Jan 31, 2004)

Yes, it is below the slope minimum. It's just a cricket. Unless your local code officials make you use the torch down, the 2 ply GIWS w/shingles will work fine. At the worst, the granules in this area might not last the full term of the warranty. At best, the use of torch down on a cricket can cause flashing detail problems. For example, how will the torch down flash down onto the shingles below? You can't torch down onto the shingles. Technically, the torch down mfr will require metal flashing at this location. You can always build the cricket up a little bit.
Jim


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

Two plies of ice shield will do no better than one. I would like to see the cricket before making any further comments


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

I'm trying to send/add a pic...hold for just a minute


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

Cannot post pic because file size is too large. Set my camera to lowest settings and highest compression ratio. Still no luck.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I feel you ARE DEFINETLY sacrificing quality by gun nailing but many roofers disagree. If you search this forum you will find very lengthy debates regarding this topic. FYI all the reputable roofers on the North Shore, where you are from originally hand nail their roofs.

I dislike owens corning shingles, but I hear they stand behind their warranty. Your contractor buys his shingles from lowes? That's odd that he doesn't have a roofing supply house.

I'd definetly like to see the cricket but modified bitumen could work. I prefer soldered copper on my crickets. If modified bitumen is used you definetly want a base sheet, which is not the same as sloped roof felt.

Architectural shingles typically are rated better, longer warranty and better wind resistance... however choose a shingle that looks best on your home. Yes an architectural has higher resale value, assuming your roof slope is 7/12 or better. If you use architectural find out if they are installing "distinctive ridge caps" which will add to the price. Judging by the $800 upcharge they are, but never assume. Neither shingle is easier than the other to install IMO.

I always use 30lb on my sloped roofs.

Grace is the best I&W on the market. You want your ice shield to extend at least 1 1/2' past the warm wall. Which means if you have a 2' over hang and 6/12 pich you need more than 3' of ice shield. If you have a 1' over hang then 3' is adequate. Also place ice shield around any dormers, skylights, chimneys etc...

Dave use some photo editing software to manipulate the size of the photo.


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

I have posted a pic of the cricket. The light colord shingles are of a new roof of a screened in patio recently added to my home. The cricket "joins" the old roof to the new roof of the patio.

Again, many thanks for everyone's feedback.


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

Grumpy-

If you are not a fan of OC shingles, can you suggest a couple of brands/mfg that are "good value" or an equal subsitute that you like better for same amount of $$$. The quote to reroof my home is $5500 and I'd like not spend much more.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

GAF is a good shingle. Tamko is also a good shingle. 

Price is the last thing you should be concerned with. Read this http://www.diychatroom.com/howto57.htm it will explain. You might also want to read this http://www.diychatroom.com/howto59.htm


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

I wouldn't call that pic a cricket. I call it a pocket. A cricket is different. 

This pic is what I'd call a cricket. http://reliableamerican.us/temp/chimney cricket.jpg *Note:* I did not install this roof. If I did, I'd have done the flashing differently.


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

I disagree with grumpy about the hand nailed quality thing. I used to hand nail. I currently gun nail. It is your installer that you have to worry about. I can put on just as high quality of a roof as grumpy does with hand nails. Of course, you have to actually care about what youre doing to do a good job, as it is with anything.

I only use GAF Shingles for my discretionary specifying. This is because I have never had a problem with their products, commercial, or residential.

Like Grumpy said....Price is the last thing you want to woory about on THE component of your home that is the PRIMARY weather protector. I do not understand why most people will want to go as low as possible on the items which insure their well being, while most will spend a fortune on the items within the protection of the cheapest roof thay can get. Not targeting you, just the line of thinking. When I get your pic, I will give my advice.

Grumpy, how is hand nailing better, again?


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

Then is a modified bitumen ok for my "pocket" area. Or should I go with shingles with Grace I&W? Again. the slope is less than 3/12 has some flat areas.

Also, I've told a California cut was used on the new shingles. Good thing or bad thing??? 

One contractor told me the shingles should be "weaved" in the valleys rather than "california" cut. Agree? Disagree??


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## AaronB. (Oct 6, 2004)

There are generally four things that get ignored when the California cut valley fails.

1. The low side does not wrap high enough up onto the high side
2. Shingles do not get dubbed on the high side when running into the valley. This is when you cut the corner of the shingle off to prevent water running across the tops of the shingles and emptying behind the low side valley wrap.
3. The bottom course does not get weaved.
4. Nailing within 12" of the valley centerline

If you do these things correctly, you should not have problems. I ALWAYS California cut my valleys, and have never had a problem with a single one.


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## Grumpy (Oct 8, 2003)

DaveP said:


> Then is a modified bitumen ok for my "pocket" area. Or should I go with shingles with Grace I&W? Again. the slope is less than 3/12 has some flat areas.
> ??


Either is acceptable. If it is visible consider shingles... but both will work.

In a pocket a weaved valley is deffinetly a better valley. That won't be an issue if you used modified bitumen, only if you use a shingle.

I don't call it california cutting but I do the same as Aaron.


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## jmorgan (Jan 31, 2004)

Saw photo. I agree w/Grumpy....not a cricket, like behind a chimney. Torch down is appropriate. Too big and low sloped for 2-ply GIWS/shingles.
Jim


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## DaveP (Jan 8, 2005)

Grumpy & Jmorgan-

Many, many, many thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your feedback is very helpful. Now its time to talk with my roofer.

Grumpy- If I make it back to the North Shore, you will be my first call for any roofing issues and repairs. 

Guys, Happy New Year and thanks again.

Dave P


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